Text only | Text with Images

gaaboard.com

Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Tyrones own on March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

Title: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM
New thread lads as gabe didn't like me using his to shine light on the daily musings of the Obama administration  :-*

Anyway...yet another tut tut moment from the Messiah
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/20/obama-apologizes-special-olympics-bowling-joke/
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: pintsofguinness on March 20, 2009, 10:08:23 PM
DOnt see the he's apologising for.

THe world has gone PC mad!
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: tyssam5 on March 20, 2009, 10:15:49 PM
In fairness 129 is pish poor, I got 197 the other day and I never bowl. I was well pleased with that score, but a bit annoyed I only got 6 in the last frame, otherwise I would have bust the 200 mark.

Obama should stick to the basketball!

Oh wait should I apologise for that, let me know if any of you infer any racist connotations and I will.
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: muppet on March 20, 2009, 10:24:32 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM
New thread lads as gabe didn't like me using his to shine light on the daily musings of the Obama administration  :-*

Anyway...yet another tut tut moment from the Messiah
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/20/obama-apologizes-special-olympics-bowling-joke/


You posted this already on another thread and no body cared.

Now you want to throw a tantrum in a new thread.

He won the election, get over it.
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: ONeill on March 21, 2009, 08:36:28 AM
You might enjoy this TO - http://www.watch-movies-links.net/movies/the_obama_deception/
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: Tyrones own on March 21, 2009, 01:44:20 PM
QuoteYou posted this already on another thread and no body cared.

Now you want to throw a tantrum in a new thread.

He won the election, get over it.

Tantrum..Heavens no :D  sure it's thoroughly enjoyable reading the retorts to my posts, usually laced with insults
and an embarrassing lack of substance rather than actually have a thought good or bad about the latest boo boo the
great orator may have had whilst showing just how ordinary he actually is without his telepromptor :-[  na, sure this is
all a bit of craic for me watching ye sheeple dance around the fact that it was a hook, line and sinker type
situation for ye for a few months there and who knows, i might even remove a few blinkers along the way  8)
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: muppet on March 21, 2009, 02:17:01 PM
No one has said he wasn't human.

No one laced a post with insults, no matter how much you try to provoke them.

So far though he hasn't occupied any countries, killed 100,000s on the basis of lies or announced that he talks to God.

Given what you support we are willing to put up with the odd silly comment. Of course your hero never said anything silly on mic, sure he didn't?  ::)
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: Tyrones own on March 21, 2009, 02:44:47 PM
QuoteNo one has said he wasn't human.
What rock were you under all of last year :o

Quote
No one laced a post with insults, no matter how much you try to provoke them.
Again... I'm merely pointing out irregularities with promises made, most of it probably
falling on deaf ears over there of course or better still watered down well before it gets to ye!
Play the ball Muppet instead of the man would be a simpler way to put it ;)

Quote
So far though he hasn't occupied any countries, killed 100,000s on the basis of lies or announced that he talks to God.
Last i checked we're still in Iraq and Afghanistan killing innocent people...right? Atheist :P

QuoteGiven what you support we are willing to put up with the odd silly comment.
Yea, you might "put up with an odd silly comment" but heavens forbid you'd ever counter one ::)

QuoteOf course your hero never said anything silly on mic, sure he didn't?
Who's my hero? and where did i ever defend his speaking capabilities or lack there of ???



Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: muppet on March 22, 2009, 02:43:12 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 21, 2009, 02:44:47 PM
QuoteNo one has said he wasn't human.
What rock were you under all of last year :o

Quote
No one laced a post with insults, no matter how much you try to provoke them.
Again... I'm merely pointing out irregularities with promises made, most of it probably
falling on deaf ears over there of course or better still watered down well before it gets to ye!
Play the ball Muppet instead of the man would be a simpler way to put it ;)

Quote
So far though he hasn't occupied any countries, killed 100,000s on the basis of lies or announced that he talks to God.
Last i checked we're still in Iraq and Afghanistan killing innocent people...right? Atheist :P

QuoteGiven what you support we are willing to put up with the odd silly comment.
Yea, you might "put up with an odd silly comment" but heavens forbid you'd ever counter one ::)

QuoteOf course your hero never said anything silly on mic, sure he didn't?
Who's my hero? and where did i ever defend his speaking capabilities or lack there of ???





Absolutely pathethic post.
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: Tyrones own on March 22, 2009, 03:23:59 AM
QuoteAbsolutely pathethic post.

Ah... the auld classic when out of your depth ..depth.. depth... :D
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: john mcgill on March 22, 2009, 06:02:25 AM
Tyrone's Own are you head of your organisation hence the reference to the Peter Principle? He wrote some of the book in Ireland.
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: Tyrones own on March 22, 2009, 04:30:56 PM
Quote from: john mcgill on March 22, 2009, 06:02:25 AM
Tyrone's Own are you head of your organisation hence the reference to the Peter Principle? He wrote some of the book in Ireland.

Read the book John and found it quite entertaining but on the the subject of this thread, Obama is quite simply incompetent for the position
and with each day and each decision that he makes only gives credence to my honest open beliefs here for the better part of 16 months,
now if the young lads here think for a minute I'm not going to rail them on their insults and school play ground antics all this time, then they're badly mistaken 8)
Bit like the Obama '08 bumper stickers, the snipers around here seem to slipping in to the oblivion ;).....for some reason
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: muppet on March 22, 2009, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 22, 2009, 03:23:59 AM
QuoteAbsolutely pathethic post.

Ah... the auld classic when out of your depth ..depth.. depth... :D

No, it was simply a pathetic post.

A Republican supporter trying to score political points off Obama because of a silly comment or because of recent deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan (spectacular hypocrisy) is simply pathetic and not worth rising to.

Accept it, you have 4 years of a Democrat in the White House.  ;D
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: Tyrones own on March 23, 2009, 03:42:48 PM
Jaysus even my most left of left wing liberal neighbours and co workers here are admitting already
they were sold a bill of goods with this Fraud, but yet the keyboard warriors for Obama's cause here
for the past 12 months who even though have the advantage of secrecy being hidden behind their avatars
(yes even the Obama ones and the signatures to go with them ;) can't even be seen to man up,
grow a set and simply admit ye got it wrong  :-[
And again..... less of the insults, how dare you label me a Republican :o

Ah I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here to believe you'd ever admit to being wrong...sure ye have
a history on here of trying to tell your Daddy how to Fcuk... help me here, have you ever actually been wrong about anything ???
One instance and prime example of your never wrong, shite doesn't stink mentality that i still laugh at to this day was  
you with your typical know it all attitude dictating and giving flying lessons to Aerlik a while back and him a licensed and active pilot :D :D
Yes and to think I have 4 more years of taking the piss out of young lads like you does lend a balance to the situation ;D


Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: heganboy on March 24, 2009, 02:55:14 PM
TO
Where do you stand on the Geithner plan?
I'm not sure to which bill of goods you refer- can you elaborate (sorry if I'm being lazy not searching back through previous threads but I'm getting older you see...)
HB
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: Tyrones own on March 24, 2009, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 24, 2009, 02:55:14 PM
TO
Where do you stand on the Geithner plan?
I'm not sure to which bill of goods you refer- can you elaborate (sorry if I'm being lazy not searching back through previous threads but I'm getting older you see...)
HB

No, the bill of goods that I speak of is the list of podium punching, finger pointing, campaign winning promises Obama made yet had never any
intention of coming good on, you must be getting old HB...isn't it obvious for all to see that it was going to take nothing less than the rug to be pulled
completely out from under the dreamy eyed keyboard warriors in support of their Hero to ever silence the adoration and love for the man who was going to deliver so much ::)

Regarding the Geithner plan, The reason I don't like it is I think it's nothing more than an extension of the last one,
Ladened down with risk to the taxpayer while opening the door to offering these same criminals on Wall St, Banking institutions and
Head fund managers a massive leverage vehicle in which to fill their coffers again with much less risk than the tax payer
is being subjected to, having said that...I'll def be watching the Put/Call ratio's myself on these particular stocks,
could be some scalping opportunities to be had ;)
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: heganboy on March 24, 2009, 04:52:04 PM
oh that bill of goods.

I'm not sure that anyone in their right mind in this day and age can expect that what a politician says to get elected will have a direct correlation to what they actually do when they get in the door...

However that being said, situations change and imho (which isn't exactly humble) he seems to have done a "fair" job of steering a course fairly close to that which he indicated he would attempt (and when I say attempt he promised he would absolutely do it on the campaign trail).

but yes- it would take avolte face of epic scale to lose his audience, such is the benefit of popularity. And in the US its the personality (or public facing persona) that wins the election, not the best policies. Dont forget this is the same country where 46% of young females polled last week believe Rihanna was to blame for the beating she took at the hands of chris brown...

Anyways, the risk to the tax payer is higher than should reasonably be expected, but the payoff could actually be pretty good too and these times are far from reasonable.

I'd be much happier with a well funded and well staffed regulator, and a huge change in the reliance on self regulation.

The leverage game is I think in end days as far as publicly traded investment vehicles, but there will always be a market for the "dark" investment fund, and as long as there is an awareness in the market (probably through regulated advertising or disclosure) that these vehicles are exactly that then I think the highly leveraged funds will still have their place.

as for the imbalances in the market right now, I wouldn't have the mortgage riding...

and TO- one more thing- any chance you'd change the thread title to the american politics thread?


Title: Re: The many faces of US Politics thread....
Post by: Tyrones own on March 24, 2009, 11:54:38 PM
Quote
and TO- one more thing- any chance you'd change the thread title to the american politics thread?

I suppose I could HB as the unadulterated shameless drooling does seem to have subsided on here for the great one,
not for long though i'm afraid...the hard core former cheer leaders amongst us are no doubt sitting reading this thread with wee red faces
seething with anger and embarrassment as to how an IQ-less ;) conservative like myself could ever have found his way to the top of the heap
amongst such far superior liberal minds.
Luckily they have the option to shun me and that seems to be their vehicle of choice here and that's great and all but they'll also know that all that
does is gift me an open Mic and an unimpeded platform from which to explain exactly how I was right all along, one lie and corrupt decision at a time 8)
...or would that be giving them too much credit..mmm :-\  :D
Title: Re: The many faces of US Politics thread....
Post by: heganboy on March 25, 2009, 04:29:12 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 24, 2009, 11:54:38 PM
Quote
all that does is gift me an open Mic and an unimpeded platform

I think its time to get nervous.

What are your thoughts on the AIG bonuses thought this week?

loved this
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/opinion/25desantis.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 04:39:21 PM
Nervous........ Ba :D... Ba  :D...

I don't currently subscribe to the NY times HB ;) and so not sure of what i should be nervous about
Fill me in.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 04:45:27 PM
Could Pelosi now be condoning ethics actions of those damned Republicans for the last 8 yrs :o
seems there was and is nothing to report after all, especially now that it's all Democratically controlled ...surely this cant be so ::)

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20459.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 05:55:22 PM
FFS this shit is everywhere you turn >:(

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03252009/news/nationalnews/dodds_wife__too__had_money_link_to_aig_161237.htm
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Diet Coke on March 25, 2009, 06:10:12 PM
Tell me what would/could McCain have done different if he'd been elected?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 25, 2009, 06:30:40 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 05:55:22 PM
FFS this shit is everywhere you turn >:(

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03252009/news/nationalnews/dodds_wife__too__had_money_link_to_aig_161237.htm

Wow, Dodd's wife worked for a company back in 2004 that AIG had shares in . That is earth shattering news.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 25, 2009, 07:09:12 PM
ah c'mon I'm all for cleaning up politics but no witch hunts and every one across the board feels the same pain.

interfering with page boys- life sentence
undeclared business interests- loss of position plus fine
undeclared wife's business interests- revoking of right to divorce or live separately from same wife
starting wars unnecessarily- life sentence plus fine

I also think that politicians fines and punishments should reflect the amount of money it costs to get them elected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 25, 2009, 07:10:47 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 04:39:21 PM
Nervous........ Ba :D... Ba  :D...

I don't currently subscribe to the NY times HB ;) and so not sure of what i should be nervous about
Fill me in.....
yeah but you'll read stories on the NY post?
anyway: here's the aig thing?
Quotehe following is a letter sent on Tuesday by Jake DeSantis, an executive vice president of the American International Group's financial products unit, to Edward M. Liddy, the chief executive of A.I.G. It ran in The New York Times's op-ed section.

DEAR Mr. Liddy,

It is with deep regret that I submit my notice of resignation from A.I.G. Financial Products. I hope you take the time to read this entire letter. Before describing the details of my decision, I want to offer some context:

I am proud of everything I have done for the commodity and equity divisions of A.I.G.-F.P. I was in no way involved in — or responsible for — the credit default swap transactions that have hamstrung A.I.G. Nor were more than a handful of the 400 current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. Most of those responsible have left the company and have conspicuously escaped the public outrage.

After 12 months of hard work dismantling the company — during which A.I.G. reassured us many times we would be rewarded in March 2009 — we in the financial products unit have been betrayed by A.I.G. and are being unfairly persecuted by elected officials. In response to this, I will now leave the company and donate my entire post-tax retention payment to those suffering from the global economic downturn. My intent is to keep none of the money myself.

I take this action after 11 years of dedicated, honorable service to A.I.G. I can no longer effectively perform my duties in this dysfunctional environment, nor am I being paid to do so. Like you, I was asked to work for an annual salary of $1, and I agreed out of a sense of duty to the company and to the public officials who have come to its aid. Having now been let down by both, I can no longer justify spending 10, 12, 14 hours a day away from my family for the benefit of those who have let me down.

You and I have never met or spoken to each other, so I'd like to tell you about myself. I was raised by schoolteachers working multiple jobs in a world of closing steel mills. My hard work earned me acceptance to M.I.T., and the institute's generous financial aid enabled me to attend. I had fulfilled my American dream.

I started at this company in 1998 as an equity trader, became the head of equity and commodity trading and, a couple of years before A.I.G.'s meltdown last September, was named the head of business development for commodities. Over this period the equity and commodity units were consistently profitable — in most years generating net profits of well over $100 million. Most recently, during the dismantling of A.I.G.-F.P., I was an integral player in the pending sale of its well-regarded commodity index business to UBS. As you know, business unit sales like this are crucial to A.I.G.'s effort to repay the American taxpayer.

The profitability of the businesses with which I was associated clearly supported my compensation. I never received any pay resulting from the credit default swaps that are now losing so much money. I did, however, like many others here, lose a significant portion of my life savings in the form of deferred compensation invested in the capital of A.I.G.-F.P. because of those losses. In this way I have personally suffered from this controversial activity — directly as well as indirectly with the rest of the taxpayers.

I have the utmost respect for the civic duty that you are now performing at A.I.G. You are as blameless for these credit default swap losses as I am. You answered your country's call and you are taking a tremendous beating for it.

But you also are aware that most of the employees of your financial products unit had nothing to do with the large losses. And I am disappointed and frustrated over your lack of support for us. I and many others in the unit feel betrayed that you failed to stand up for us in the face of untrue and unfair accusations from certain members of Congress last Wednesday and from the press over our retention payments, and that you didn't defend us against the baseless and reckless comments made by the attorneys general of New York and Connecticut.

My guess is that in October, when you learned of these retention contracts, you realized that the employees of the financial products unit needed some incentive to stay and that the contracts, being both ethical and useful, should be left to stand. That's probably why A.I.G. management assured us on three occasions during that month that the company would "live up to its commitment" to honor the contract guarantees.

That may be why you decided to accelerate by three months more than a quarter of the amounts due under the contracts. That action signified to us your support, and was hardly something that one would do if he truly found the contracts "distasteful."

That may also be why you authorized the balance of the payments on March 13.

At no time during the past six months that you have been leading A.I.G. did you ask us to revise, renegotiate or break these contracts — until several hours before your appearance last week before Congress.

I think your initial decision to honor the contracts was both ethical and financially astute, but it seems to have been politically unwise. It's now apparent that you either misunderstood the agreements that you had made — tacit or otherwise — with the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, various members of Congress and Attorney General Andrew Cuomo of New York, or were not strong enough to withstand the shifting political winds.

You've now asked the current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. to repay these earnings. As you can imagine, there has been a tremendous amount of serious thought and heated discussion about how we should respond to this breach of trust.

As most of us have done nothing wrong, guilt is not a motivation to surrender our earnings. We have worked 12 long months under these contracts and now deserve to be paid as promised. None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he has fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house.

Many of the employees have, in the past six months, turned down job offers from more stable employers, based on A.I.G.'s assurances that the contracts would be honored. They are now angry about having been misled by A.I.G.'s promises and are not inclined to return the money as a favor to you.

The only real motivation that anyone at A.I.G.-F.P. now has is fear. Mr. Cuomo has threatened to "name and shame," and his counterpart in Connecticut, Richard Blumenthal, has made similar threats — even though attorneys general are supposed to stand for due process, to conduct trials in courts and not the press.

So what am I to do? There's no easy answer. I know that because of hard work I have benefited more than most during the economic boom and have saved enough that my family is unlikely to suffer devastating losses during the current bust. Some might argue that members of my profession have been overpaid, and I wouldn't disagree.

That is why I have decided to donate 100 percent of the effective after-tax proceeds of my retention payment directly to organizations that are helping people who are suffering from the global downturn. This is not a tax-deduction gimmick; I simply believe that I at least deserve to dictate how my earnings are spent, and do not want to see them disappear back into the obscurity of A.I.G.'s or the federal government's budget. Our earnings have caused such a distraction for so many from the more pressing issues our country faces, and I would like to see my share of it benefit those truly in need.

On March 16 I received a payment from A.I.G. amounting to $742,006.40, after taxes. In light of the uncertainty over the ultimate taxation and legal status of this payment, the actual amount I donate may be less — in fact, it may end up being far less if the recent House bill raising the tax on the retention payments to 90 percent stands. Once all the money is donated, you will immediately receive a list of all recipients.

This choice is right for me. I wish others at A.I.G.-F.P. luck finding peace with their difficult decision, and only hope their judgment is not clouded by fear.

Mr. Liddy, I wish you success in your commitment to return the money extended by the American government, and luck with the continued unwinding of the company's diverse businesses — especially those remaining credit default swaps. I'll continue over the short term to help make sure no balls are dropped, but after what's happened this past week I can't remain much longer — there is too much bad blood. I'm not sure how you will greet my resignation, but at least Attorney General Blumenthal should be relieved that I'll leave under my own power and will not need to be "shoved out the door."

Sincerely,

Jake DeSantis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 09:47:19 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on March 25, 2009, 06:10:12 PM
Tell me what would/could McCain have done different if he'd been elected?

Absolutely nothing different at all DC and I'm man enough to admit it because lets not forget, he wasn't elected due to the unfortunate circumstances of being unable to
measure up to the might of a man who by all accounts ;) was without any shadow of doubt going to right all the wrongs of the last 8 years by ushering in a yes we can attitude,
transparency, and sweeping change like nothing ever witnessed before type administration to Washington..fcuk it I was almost even convinced myself towards the end of the campaign
but thankfully I was able to regain my common sense of reality..unlike some :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 09:52:06 PM
Quote from: dec on March 25, 2009, 06:30:40 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 05:55:22 PM
FFS this shit is everywhere you turn >:(

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03252009/news/nationalnews/dodds_wife__too__had_money_link_to_aig_161237.htm

Wow, Dodd's wife worked for a company back in 2004 that AIG had shares in . That is earth shattering news.

Because for obvious reasons ye had nothing at all to add to my many other points of substance i thought I'd throw
this in just for shits and giggles and sure enough... Welcome back Dec ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 09:58:14 PM
Quoteyeah but you'll read stories on the NY post?

Only because I don't have to register with them to click on a link ;)

Anyway that's a fair damning letter to have published in the NY Times, I'd say that's a man at peace with himself tonight!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 25, 2009, 10:17:27 PM
I posted this shortly after the election but it seems I was a tad early with it....
now might have been a more appropriate time with so many of our finest missing in action :'(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3_95F5e-Ac            ;) :D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on March 26, 2009, 03:32:24 AM
enough with the f**king emoticons.

sweet jesus


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stephenite on March 26, 2009, 05:57:28 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 26, 2009, 03:32:24 AM
enough with the f**king emoticons.

sweet jesus




:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

:-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: anportmorforjfc on March 26, 2009, 09:21:33 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 26, 2009, 03:32:24 AM
enough with the f**king emoticons.

sweet jesus

Calm Down Mike  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 26, 2009, 10:17:47 AM
Tyrone's Own, grow up FFS.

You lost. Get on with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 26, 2009, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 26, 2009, 03:32:24 AM
enough with the f**king emoticons.

sweet jesus




A certain somebody stealing Mikey's thunder perhaps  :-*
How many times do you need to be told...you're not good enough!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 26, 2009, 04:50:03 PM
QuoteTyrone's Own, grow up FFS.
::)

QuoteYou lost. Get on with it.
Think we all lost Muppet..bend back the blinkers a small bit and realize it!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 26, 2009, 06:14:55 PM
so who do you think would be a decent president- I still like Bloomberg for the job

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on March 26, 2009, 06:35:52 PM
QuoteA certain somebody stealing Mikey's thunder perhaps 
How many times do you need to be told...you're not good enough!

you are as deluded as your hero, George W.

I will be referring to you as dubya from now on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: anportmorforjfc on March 26, 2009, 11:31:35 PM
One more post to get to the milestone of 1000 Mike. Make sure its something worth reading and not a load of crap. ;) :)  
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 26, 2009, 11:40:46 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 26, 2009, 06:35:52 PM
QuoteA certain somebody stealing Mikey's thunder perhaps 
How many times do you need to be told...you're not good enough!

you are as deluded as your hero, George W.

I will be referring to you as dubya from now on

Fcuk you're like a fish out of water without any auld bit of attention Mikey...
even wanting to be in my gang now...what will it be next? and for the third time, no,
I've no Peter the Great  jammies that are too small for me :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on March 27, 2009, 07:26:09 PM
QuoteOne more post to get to the milestone of 1000 Mike. Make sure its something worth reading and not a load of crap.

only idiots like yourself pay any attention to post counts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on March 27, 2009, 07:27:30 PM
QuoteFcuk you're like a fish out of water without any auld bit of attention Mikey...
even wanting to be in my gang now...what will it be next? and for the third time, no,
I've no Peter the Great  jammies that are too small for me

Are you back on the booze Dubya....?

Redneck.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 31, 2009, 02:51:26 AM
Interesting take on the PPIP:


Heads or Tails?
March 29, 2009   David Kotok, Chairman & Chief Investment Officer

Dear Reader: Please give me 8 minutes to explain the $1.1 trillion federal government Public-Private Investment Program (PPIP).

Start here with this simple example.  It's a coin toss.  Heads you win $100; tails you get nothing.  How much would you pay to play?  You can play as many times as you wish.  Answer: not more that $50.  For less than $50, you would play as often as you can.  $50 is your breakeven; only a fool would pay more.

Now add Tim Geithner as your partner.  He matches what you invest but you, and only you, get to set the price to play.  Answer: you put up no more than $25 as the investor and that means he matches your number.  At under $25 you play as much as you can.  $25 is your breakeven as the investor; $50 is still the breakeven for the coin flip.

Now let's add some of the leverage from the FDIC.

Suppose that the FDIC will loan you $40 as a non-recourse loan.  You and Geithner each put up $5 for a total of $10 and, adding in the loan money, you pay $50 to play, just as before.  If you get heads, you pay off the loan of $40, and you and Geithner split the rest.  That means you get $30 for your $5 and so does he.  Remember, you set the price to play.  If you get tails you get nothing and lose $5, Geithner loses $5, and the FDIC loses $40.

Now suppose we have an auction to decide who will play.

The highest bidder wins the right to play as many times as he wishes.  With this example the breakeven price rises from $50 to $70.  At $70 you put up $15; Geithner puts up $15 and the FDIC still loans $40.  Half the time you will win $100 and use $40 to pay off the FDIC, leaving $60 for you to split with Geithner.  You will get $30 back for each $15 you play, when you win.  The other half of the time you will get zero, since it's still a coin flip risk.

Notice that the price to play went from a $50 breakeven to a $70 breakeven.  This happened while the odds remained a 50-50 coin flip.

Also notice that the leverage ratio was low when you put up $15, Geithner put up $15, and the FDIC put up $40.  Under the Treasury PPIP plan the leverage ratio can go as high as 6 to 1.  Using the full 6:1 leverage ratio, a coin-flip breakeven point would be about $3.57 for the investor.

Here is how I get that number.  You put up $3.57; Geithner puts up $3.57; the total investor's equity is $7.14.  The FDIC loans 6 times $7.14, or $42.84.  Total price to play is $49.98.  Let's call it $50, which is the amount to play each time.

Notice that the breakeven auction price is now almost $93 each time.  Remember you, as the private investor, are the one who sets the auction price, because you are the only one deciding the bidding.  Geithner is matching you and the FDIC is loaning 6 times the equity.

The leverage and the risk transfer have raised the investor's breakeven from a $50 auction price, if you did this all by yourself and without any leverage, to a $93 auction price when leverage is fully deployed.  The risk of winning or losing is still a coin flip.

Let's substitute a toxic asset on a bank's balance sheet for the coin.

Instead of a 50-50 coin flip, with PPIP we have a toxic piece of a mortgage-backed debt instrument that has an uncertain value.  If we use PPIP, aren't we really inflating the price artificially?  It seems to me the answer is yes.

How can we adjust for this risk transfer that allows the auction breakeven price to rise?  That answer lies in how much the FDIC will charge to make the non-recourse loan.  If the FDIC charges enough, it will bring the auction price back to $50 and restore the deal to neutrality.  If the FDIC charges more, it will bring the price below what it would be without the leverage.

But if the FDIC underpriced the loan cost, it would then have subsidized the deal and allowed the auction price to rise.  That means the seller of the toxic debt instrument got more than it was worth and the investor made a profit because of the FDIC.

Some of the risk of payment on that instrument transferred to the FDIC.  That means it transferred to the FDIC insurance fund, which means it transferred to every insured deposit in every bank that pays an insurance premium into the fund.  That means the depositor may be getting a lower interest rate on that deposit than he otherwise would get.

That is PPIP.

Some Questions.  Will this process set a true "market price" for these toxic assets or are we using a gambler's pricing mechanism?  Has Geithner been transparent about this risk transfer to the FDIC?  What will the FDIC charge investors when it assumes the 6:1 leverage risk?  Will it price risk fairly or will it grant massive subsidy to banks?

Dear reader: you decide if this is a good thing or a bad thing.  You decide if this is how it was presented to you.  You decide if this is a sound policy solution for the US banking system or if you believe that our government has taken "moral hazard" to a new level with pee-pip?

For more details on PPIP see this weekend's issue (March 30) of Barron's and the columns on PPIP by Jonathan Laing and Andrew Bary.  They start on page 25 and offer an investor's view.  As a money manager for our clients, the Cumberland firm will look at PPIP and may use it on behalf of clients after we have reviewed an official form of an offering document.  As a private citizen concerned about my country and its policy direction, I think this reeks and stinks.
David Kotok, Chairman & Chief Investment Officer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 31, 2009, 02:39:25 PM
in case anyone actually read TO's post, here's the version with the corrections ;-)
this is from Dave Kotok of Cumber advisors, they are a very small fund managing about $1bn is assets and Kotok himself is a huge free trade proponent, and as such believes very strongly that there will be no protectionism in the markets over the next couple of years. Also he seems much more interested in the cult of his own personality than growing the size of his fund (putting his money where his mouth is- or at least his client's money) Whilst I would like to hope that would be the case I simply don't believe it. That said here you go anyway:
Quote

We thank readers for their responses to our "Heads or Tails" commentary, dated March 29, 2009.  Many issues were raised.  We will use this Part 2 to address some of the items and correct technical errors or lack of clarity in our first missive.

First let's offer a recap and explanation.  In Part 1 we used the metaphor of a coin toss to depict how leverage works to raise the auction price of assets. Six to one leverage is the maximum under PPIP.  We used it to dramatize the volatile effect on the auction price.  Some components of the PPIP are likely to have much lower leverage ratios.  We also argued that the transfer of risk to the federal government is the mechanism of the PPIP.  We pondered whether this process actually will result in an artificially inflated transaction price.  The financial market reaction to the announcement of PPIP suggests that it will.  Lastly we questioned whether this is a sound policy prescription for the United States.  Part 1 of "Heads or Tails" is available at www.cumber.com. 

Technical and clarifying points follow:

1.    PPIP is divided into two categories.  The first deals with loans on the books of banks.  The second deals with securities held by banks, insurance companies, and others.  Treasury calls both "legacy assets," but it is important to note that the programs dealing with each of these two categories differ in construction and leverage.

2.    The FDIC is involved in the loan program.  It doesn't lend directly; it acts as a guarantor and receives a fee.  The pricing of this fee is critical, as we outlined in the first commentary.  At this writing we do not know what the pricing mechanism will be.  The FDIC is asking for comments, as readers can find for themselves at  http://www.fdic.gov/llp/index.html .  A full description of "legacy loans" is available.

3.    The Federal Reserve and the Treasury are the financing sources of the securities category.  A more detailed description is available on the Treasury website at  http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/tg65.htm .  This is the March 23, 2009 press release.  Several links at the bottom direct interested readers to the details.

Some thoughtful responses to Part 1 are reproduced below.  We are withholding names of all writers, since some have asked for anonymity.

From a seasoned and skilled broker who has special expertise in bank stocks:

"Those institutions that have marked both loans and investments properly will have capital added to their balance sheets as they sell: let us hope and pray that is the majority of them. By the way, one might conclude that it is a good time to buy those stocks aggressively, as they benefit handsomely from this plan.  They may even be able to mark up their remaining assets as market pricing improves.  Could you imagine book values growing from this?  Stranger things have happened.

"Those institutions who have not priced their assets 'to market', but are still in the 'ballpark' (forgive me, baseball is upon us) will get bailed out as leverage encourages higher prices, and that may not be all bad as their balance sheets are cleansed.  One can speculate that fear may have driven down some of these prices to levels that are penurious at best.  This assist may let assets clear the markets at more realistic levels, whatever that means. 

"What are the prices going to be?  Will the banks really sell assets or will they be too afraid to test the waters?  In many cases their investment securities are marked to market, but how about their loans?  Price realization in that area has me concerned, but I am hoping that once this logjam gets moving it will adjust quickly, as participants don't want to miss this one.  So many questions! 

"Understand I am just speculating here, as I have never seen anything like this – but I sense a real opportunity here."

From a former Federal Reserve official, about the theoretical breakeven point:

"The FDIC isn't lending the money, but rather the buyer has to issue debt.  The cost of the debt and the cost of the guarantee will make its price critical.  This should trade like Treasury debt, I believe; and if it does, then the fee and interest costs will have to also be shared between the investor and Treasury, which will lower the breakeven point.  They haven't decided on whether this debt is tradable or not.  If it isn't, then it will bear a higher interest rate than treasuries for liquidity reasons.  Also, it will compete with Freddie and Fannie debt and also with the flood of Treasury debt that will come on the market.  In the end, won't there be moral hazard as the investors who have to be sellers of the debt to finance the program bid up the interest rate they are willing to pay to get a share of the market, which will exacerbate the price discovery mechanism and lead to overpayment for the assets in auction?"

From a prominent law school professor:

"Your concept did come through, and it was a very good way of explaining it.  It's just that the loan/securities distinction means little to most casual observers, but is really big.  It also shows how the government has spun this. The loan program is open to anybody and has 85% financing.  The securities program will be handled by 5 managers and they must each have 10bb of MBS under management.  And, most of what are called "toxic assets" on balance sheets are securities not loans, so the latter program will by necessity be bigger and the discounts larger.  So the best opportunities in this deal may well be only for the very institutions that are so often blamed for how we got here.  But by making it seem that the loan program is equal, and emphasizing it, the administration is able to make the whole thing seem much more egalitarian than I suspect it is.  Pardon if my cynicism is showing, but I am not a big fan – as a citizen – of the program.  As a businessperson, if we can figure out how to play in the sandbox, we will try to have a lot of shovels and a sturdy bucket."

From an insurance executive:

"A traditionalist would hang on dearly to the 'good' in the financial world, wanting to believe that the world as we know it is not "The Matrix" or the Mother of All Ponzi Schemes (MOAPS, to stay in tune w/ the govt's acronyms).  A New World theorist would comment that this is all part of the plan to dismantle the US and level the playing field. The theorist believes that the Obamas and the Geithners of the world aren't who we think they are, but have been 'bought' to play their part in the plan.  Unless you ask me to cease and desist, as a patriotic American (which I imagine we both are), I will continue to stay in touch as we observe the gradual erosion of the America we once knew when we were younger."

From a seasoned investor with skills in the mortgage arena:

"The current idea floated by financial institutions, and the media in partner with them, is that these derivatives may actually come back in value. That cannot and will not happen for very concrete mathematical reasons.

"A CDO built in 2005 is almost certain to contain mortgages written with 105% financing with 50% DTI. Those loans are blowing up at enormous rates. Hence, since the CDO's return is predicated on nothing more than a positive flow from the underlying securities, every tranche containing blown mortgages exceeding the modeled margin of default is a 100% loss.

"Underwriting guidelines have almost returned to sane levels. The banks are lending, but the new guidelines limit those that are lent to. That has eliminated more than 50% of the possible buyers which existed 3 years ago.

"The only way for any of the CDO's, CMO's or CLO's to retain any value is if housing values go back to where they were in Jan 2006, and soon, before any more mortgages in the underlying MBS go into foreclosure.

"My point is this: even the conduits are a time bomb, which will realize near 100% losses, unless housing values dramatically rise, right now, so no more houses (mortgages) in the MBS go bad, and give the current mortgagees a way out through sale for profit or true refinance.

"Every credit derivative based on obscene underwriting guidelines will eventually be a near 100% loss. For that to be different, we need to let as many people back into the buying market as were present then, to put upward pressure on housing values.

"The only way to do that is to adopt, again, obscene underwriting guidelines. Because that will not happen, any and all monies given banks to cover losses with credit derivatives will be a total loss. I believe it is better the banks assume the loss. There are several hundred middle-tier banks with no credit derivative exposure, and little residential or commercial RE exposure. They can and will fill the void should some "big brothers" go by the wayside.

"The PPIP is nothing but a shell game, and will drag this country somewhere no one wants to go."

From a stranger known only as JPM:

"Your explanation assumes that the buyer and seller are unrelated and have no association.  If they have related interests, then it gets much much worse.

"There is nothing substantive in the Treasury Dept language that prevents the seller of (say) MBS from creating an "unrelated" third party, who can then compensate the buyer for bidding face value of the assets.  The PPIP is so easy to game it ought to be DOA."

From a regular Cumberland reader who gives a jet-lagged writer some comfort and strength to continue:

"This analysis couples with John Hussman's article regarding the potential abuses of the PPIP – namely that sellers of the 'legacy assets' are actually allowed to bid on their paper or the paper of other sellers, opening the door for all sorts of conflicts.  Where are the checks and balances of this auction process?  Once again, the US taxpayer is going to get left holding the bag as the banks that created this mess get a 'Get Out of Jail' card for free.  This is going to end in a disaster, as a massive transfer of wealth is happening right before our eyes.  I for one am writing to all the Congressmen/women who have the wisdom to see the folly of this plan.

"For your part, you nail the conundrum squarely – as an investor you see a tremendous opportunity to make money with the risk/reward balance tilted severely in your favor.  As a citizen of the US, you see a tremendous burden being placed on the taxpayer and future generations of Americans.  Time will tell which path is taken."

Lastly we offer this from two hawkeyed readers who caught the math error.

Stephan wrote:

"You would not bid more than 87.50. You put in 6.25, Geithner joins you with 6.25 and FDIC loans you 6x12.50=75. You win 12.50 or loose 6.25. You would only bid 93 if you're a Bayesian and convinced the coin has a bias towards the private market."

And Mike wrote:

"It seems to me that there is a problem in the calculation of the full leverage breakeven point calculation for the private investor. Rather that $3.57, I think the correct figure is $6.25. If the private investor puts up $6.25 and the Treasury puts up $6.25, the FDIC would loan the partnership 6 times $12.50, or $75.00. Half the time, the equity partners would receive $25.00 ($100 less the loan of $75.00) and half the time, they would receive nothing. The fair value of this coin flip bet is $12.50 in total or $6.25 apiece. The auction price in this case would be $12.50 (equity) plus $75.00 (loan) or $87.50.

When comparing this auction price to the hypothesized fair value of the unleveraged bet of $50, there is a $27.50 premium induced by the leverage. Alternatively, the owner of the asset with a $100 nominal value takes only a $12.50 haircut in the auction.

A perhaps more realistic example, however, would be to suggest that the asset might have a value of $100 or $80 with a 50% probability of either result. In this case, the fully leveraged breakeven point is $6.43 for the private investor, $6.43 for the Treasury, and a FDIC loan of $77.16. In this case the payoffs would be $22.84 if the asset was worth $100 and $2.84 if the asset was only worth $80. The fair value of this coin flip bet is $12.84 (within rounding of the equity portion of the purchase price) and the auction price would be $90.02. This auction price is almost exactly the fair value of the original bet $90.00 and the owner of the asset takes a haircut equal to the full difference. I think this example shows that in the case where the nominal and worst case values of the asset are closer together, the leveraged auction will produce a reasonably equitable result.

The difference in outcome between these examples lies with whether the FDIC takes a loss on its loan. This occurs when the worst case value falls below $75 in this coin flip world. As long as the equity partners are not exposed to a loss in the worst case, the breakeven private investment amount will remain $6.25 and there will be a premium paid above the fair value of the asset."

If any readers are still here, let me ask if you caught the math error in the correction sent to me about the first math error.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ludermor on March 31, 2009, 03:26:27 PM
my head hurts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: clareman on March 31, 2009, 03:34:16 PM
Me too. I got it as far as you have a 50:50 chance in the coin toss but I kind of got lost then....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 01, 2009, 04:20:05 AM
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/977736.html

Yes would you believe it :o.... beginning to think there's a hidden requirement that you must be a tax cheat
to be even considered for a post in this administration... FFS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 01, 2009, 04:23:42 AM
Even with the Corrections HB, your article, like mine leaves as many questions as it answers,
Perhaps the turbo tax cheat will be along any day now to quell our fears with an informative explanation ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 01, 2009, 05:12:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 01, 2009, 04:23:42 AM
Even with the Corrections HB, your article, like mine leaves as many questions as it answers,
Perhaps the turbo tax cheat will be along any day now to quell our fears with an informative explanation ::)

How can someone post an article that needs corrections?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 01, 2009, 06:03:23 PM
Good question...Perhaps the NY Times or the San Francisco Chronicle could answer that one for ye!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 01, 2009, 06:17:02 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 01, 2009, 06:03:23 PM
Good question...Perhaps the NY Times or the San Francisco Chronicle could answer that one for ye!


There is a difference between writing an article and copying and pasting. How does the latter need corrections?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 01, 2009, 06:33:09 PM
TO posted an article written by an investment guy- while interesting it was littered with mistakes, the next day the guy published a corrected version as well as some Q&A thats what I posted.

as for the "tax cheat" her crime was not submitting letters from charities she donated to,confirming the gift
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 01, 2009, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 01, 2009, 06:33:09 PM
TO posted an article written by an investment guy- while interesting it was littered with mistakes, the next day the guy published a corrected version as well as some Q&A thats what I posted.

as for the "tax cheat" her crime was not submitting letters from charities she donated to,confirming the gift

Post the link to that, I'd like to read it..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 01, 2009, 08:54:03 PM
that should read- one of her "crimes"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 01, 2009, 10:52:00 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 01, 2009, 08:54:03 PM
that should read- one of her "crimes"

Ahh... that makes more sense, God Bless Fox News eh? Fair and balanced at #1 for 100 consecutive months now ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 02, 2009, 01:23:47 PM
Actually TO- not slagging Fox news here at all. I do however have some fundamental issues with the tax regime here, it encourages folks to "forget". Any tax regimen that requires over 4000 pages to explain itself is flawed from the off. It also allows those folks who can afford it (obviously not democratic politicians) to pay smarter accountants to avoid tax payments. Avoidance is of course legal while evasion is however not.

And for the record, anyone who is standing for election that hasn't been audited deserves everything thats thrown at them if they haven't paid their bills.

I also object strongly to the fund raising activities and lobbyists and i've been very disappointed by the lack of progress here. However getting congress and senate to vote for the lobbying laws is like getting turkeys to vote for Christmas and Thanksgiving.

back to fatherly advice, anyone who wants to run for office should be prevented from doing so on that basis alone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 02, 2009, 06:12:46 PM
I would agree with you on most all of that.... But putting Geitner in charge
of the Treasury is akin to putting the wolf in charge of the sheep! Pardon the pun :D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 03, 2009, 02:08:09 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/02/illinois.blagojevich/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Great news, now if only they'd move on down the line...scumbags the lot of them >:(

*edit* Is Dodd looking like getting shown the gate as well? :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 03, 2009, 02:10:56 PM
if Dodd is as dumb as it looks like he is for that "irish cottage" then toss him out on his ear.

In fact given the times we're in, there's probably a case to be made for a very public tax or gift amnesty and then an opportunity to make amends by paying the right taxes and then anyone who takes advantage should be then be forced to stand for re-election against folks who have also gone through the same process.

Level the playing field
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 17, 2009, 06:10:23 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GsvbKPdsPCo/SbGE0MvHnXI/AAAAAAAAB-U/BsOfrbHNAw4/s400/polar-bear-face-palm_thumbnail1.jpg)

Seriously lads... The joke that is this administration and it's liberal media machine has completely lost the run of themselves here with tons of noteworthy headline news :o going relatively unreported, yet not a peep out of any of ye.
Has the news wire stopped crossing the Atlantic or are ye finally that embarrassed by him?
Reading over some of the stuff on this and Hurls thread from 6 months ago does makes for some entertainment though!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 17, 2009, 07:42:22 PM
We see how the Fox News fans are calling Obama a Nazi, for introducing healthcare. Or maybe that was Barney Frank, that well known Jewish Nazi. ::)

Image that, healthcare! What would a 1st world country be doing with healthcare?

They might start with education.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 17, 2009, 10:56:06 PM
QuoteWe see how the Fox News fans are calling Obama a Nazi

"Who is this?

He wants to take power during economic turmoil, while promising hope for the nation's future.

Wants to clamp down on big business.

Blames all the problems on those who are successful, saying they're greedy and selfish and their wealth needs to be Robin Hooded away from them and given to others not as fortunate.

Proclaims that the evils of capitalism led to the current economic crisis, saying that the current system exploits the "economically weak".

Gives speeches where, no matter the actual words or topics, people leap to their feet, yelling and screaming in praise.  He uses specifically chosen words and catchy phrases to excite the masses, while offering no real solution.

Accuses opponents of being right extremists who will increase the wealth gap to maintain control over the working class.

Appeals largely to the young, ignorant, and impressionable population.

Mandates that citizens have a requirement of civil service.

Wants tighter gun control.

Grew up in a country other than the one in which he wants to rule.

Wants innovation to originate from government, rather than from the private sector."

Gee I don't know... one could see how a chosen few might read in to it that way but tell me this Muppet what singular reason could Pelosi possibly have had to label the American Public Nazi's for exercising their right to protest against something they don't want

QuoteOr maybe that was Barney Frank, that well known Jewish Nazi. ::)

Obviously not that well known since I've never heard that term directed at him :-\

Quote
Image that, healthcare! What would a 1st world country be doing with healthcare?

Ehh we already have the best health care in the world...hence thousands coming in their droves to pay to have procedures done here ::)

QuoteThey might start with education.

Obviously you'd know a lot about it sure only a couple of weeks ago you told me you knew little about US politics... as if we needed to be told ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 12:39:18 AM
Tyrones Own, how about Obama stop sending $3 Billion a year to Israel, which goes towards killing and injuring innocent men, women and children, and put it towards the cost of looking after the citizens of the US who need it most?
How about they they abandon their illegal and unjust war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and put that money towards health care?
How about stopping Politicians taking kickbacks from Drug Companies, and vote in healthcare for everyone?

You see, if the US stopped spending money on needless wars, and put the same amount into healthcare for everyone, then the citizens of the US would be better of.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thebigfella on September 18, 2009, 01:11:48 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 12:39:18 AM
Tyrones Own, how about Obama stop sending $3 Billion a year to Israel, which goes towards killing and injuring innocent men, women and children, and put it towards the cost of looking after the citizens of the US who need it most?
How about they they abandon their illegal and unjust war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and put that money towards health care?
How about stopping Politicians taking kickbacks from Drug Companies, and vote in healthcare for everyone?

You see, if the US stopped spending money on needless wars, and put the same amount into healthcare for everyone, then the citizens of the US would be better of.

How about you form an educated opinion of your own than jumping on the bandwagon and quoting the same anti-americican propaganda we always hear  ::)

It's easy to pull a few sound-bites from google these days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 18, 2009, 01:15:08 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 18, 2009, 01:11:48 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 12:39:18 AM
Tyrones Own, how about Obama stop sending $3 Billion a year to Israel, which goes towards killing and injuring innocent men, women and children, and put it towards the cost of looking after the citizens of the US who need it most?
How about they they abandon their illegal and unjust war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and put that money towards health care?
How about stopping Politicians taking kickbacks from Drug Companies, and vote in healthcare for everyone?

You see, if the US stopped spending money on needless wars, and put the same amount into healthcare for everyone, then the citizens of the US would be better of.

How about you form an educated opinion of your own than jumping on the bandwagon and quoting the same anti-americican propaganda we always hear  ::)

It's easy to pull a few sound-bites from google these days.

How do you know it's not his own opinion?
In what way was what he said anti-American?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AFS on September 18, 2009, 01:20:55 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 18, 2009, 01:11:48 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 12:39:18 AM
Tyrones Own, how about Obama stop sending $3 Billion a year to Israel, which goes towards killing and injuring innocent men, women and children, and put it towards the cost of looking after the citizens of the US who need it most?
How about they they abandon their illegal and unjust war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and put that money towards health care?
How about stopping Politicians taking kickbacks from Drug Companies, and vote in healthcare for everyone?

You see, if the US stopped spending money on needless wars, and put the same amount into healthcare for everyone, then the citizens of the US would be better of.

How about you form an educated opinion of your own than jumping on the bandwagon and quoting the same anti-americican propaganda we always hear  ::)

It's easy to pull a few sound-bites from google these days.

:D

I'd imagine give her dixie's thoughts on the role of the US in Israel/Palestine are based on a lot more than a few google searches.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 18, 2009, 01:29:06 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 17, 2009, 06:10:23 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GsvbKPdsPCo/SbGE0MvHnXI/AAAAAAAAB-U/BsOfrbHNAw4/s400/polar-bear-face-palm_thumbnail1.jpg)

Seriously lads... The joke that is this administration and it's liberal media machine has completely lost the run of themselves here with tons of noteworthy headline news :o going relatively unreported, yet not a peep out of any of ye.
Has the news wire stopped crossing the Atlantic or are ye finally that embarrassed by him?
Reading over some of the stuff on this and Hurls thread from 6 months ago does makes for some entertainment though!

Any tea-bagging lately TO?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 01:38:04 AM
Big Fella, I have lived in the US for 10 years, and I am a US citizen. Something i'm not to proud about sometimes, other times very proud.
I am old enough, wise enough, and informed enough to make my own decisions and form my own opinion.
The views I expressed are my own, and I can stand over them, and I didn't need to Google any information.
I know 1st hand what the healthcare system in the US is like, and I know 1st hand what the money spent on the US
wars in the middle east goes towards.

My point was, and still is, is that if the US stopped putting money into needless wars, and if Politicians stopped taking money from drug companies, (and AIPAC),  and put it into healthcare for is citizens, then it would be a better country for everyone.

Another fact I know, without using Google, is that the US has put over $1.1 TRILLION into the state of Israel which went towards the murder of thousands and thousands of innocent Palestinians.
Obama's healthcare package which will provide health care couldn't cost that much could it?
Sure if they stop their illegal war in Iraq and Afghanistan, they will have plenty of money for the years to come to cover it.
Now, is that anti US to you? As an American citizen, it's not to me........
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
Teabagging indeed.....................

Or coffee with these one.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 18, 2009, 02:01:07 AM
I don't know why the presidential term of office is 4 years. Nine months is plenty of time for Barrack Hiussein Obama to sort out the largest set of domestic and international problems inherited by any president in living memory. Come on Barrack pull the finger out sir!  :) :) :)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 18, 2009, 02:05:10 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
Teabagging indeed.....................

Or coffee with these one.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo

Funny line on 2.41 of that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 02:10:34 AM
Some nice guys here in his next interview....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze5dbxPO8cU

More reason for Obama to cut the funds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 02:14:11 AM
Any tea-bagging lately TO?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

 

Max found a few more.........................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UASS1qFAIQ8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 02:50:36 AM
John,

Why not try to keep any bit of credibility ye have on here without posting propagandized, heavily....... edited shite like that,
There's crazy fcuks on both sides and you know it but sure what ever ye have to do to take away from the actual intended
message of these people while quite successfully making them look as ridiculous as possible to suit the mood around here..
..are you sure you're a citizen?

Why don't you ask the Anti war brigade of the last few years here what the Fcuk we're still doing in Iraq and Afghanistan
wasting billions of dollars have you noticed how quiet they've become ::) or better still sure maybe you could even answer it
yourself as you seem to be showing a different side to yourself than this time last year when we were bringing blankets and
food to you in Dungannon :-\

Bottom line, the intention of bringing this thread back to life was to get the honest opinions of those that were completely in the tank for
Obama here to see if what has gone on to date was what they thought he was...personally for me he's exactly what I feared he was!
Regarding the Obama care...we simply can't afford it as it is written....we're already paying 5 million dollars a day in interest alone :o
on our deficit and do ye need me to list the government agencies that are already bankrupt...what makes ye think they'll get this one right?

FFS they couldn't even get a simple bill such as cash for clunkers right, to date 4% of the dealers have gotten paid, it ran out of money after it's first month
and ended up costing twice what they had predicted...hardly breeds trust amongst the American people now does it, hence the demonstrations.
Cop on to yourself, i'd expect this tripe from some of the warriors here but I'd have had you down for knowing better!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 03:33:04 AM
Tyrones own, the reasons people brought blankets and food to me 7 months ago in Dungannon
was because US bombs and bullets killed over 1,400 people, made 60,000 homeless, injured over 5,000,
and refused to enforce the opening of borders to let aid in.
All of this was with the full blessings of George Bush.
The people daning on the streets in New York in that video are a reflection of AIPAC, which control practically every
politician in the US, Republican and Democrat.
Who left the US paying $5 million a day on the deficet? Was it Obama?

Obama is wrong to deploy more troops in Afghanistan, however, it wasn't a war he started, and he has to get out
of it real soon. At least he has pulled out of the missile defense programme in Eastern Europe.

However, Obama's health care plan deserves full support, and it must go through for the sake of US citizens.
The cash for clunkers programme was a victim of it's own success. $1 billion was originally pledged, and due to it's
initial success, a further $2 billion was added.

For 8 years George Bush and co went to war, spent billions of dollars, put the country in serious debt, lined their pockets,
then sailed of into the sunset to earn millions on the speaking circuit.
Obama is in now for 8 months, and believe you me, it will take 15 years at least to bring the US back to where it
was before Bush destroyed it.
Remember, the US was in credit when junior Bush took over?

IF you want to blame anyone for the problems facing the US, blame Bush.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 04:59:59 AM
QuoteTyrones own, the reasons people brought blankets and food to me 7 months ago in Dungannon
was because US bombs and bullets killed over 1,400 people, made 60,000 homeless, injured over 5,000,
and refused to enforce the opening of borders to let aid in.
All of this was with the full blessings of George Bush.
The people daning on the streets in New York in that video are a reflection of AIPAC, which control practically every
politician in the US, Republican and Democrat.

Where did you suddenly get the idea that I'm in disagreement with you over Israel ???
QuoteWho left the US paying $5 million a day on the deficet? Was it Obama?
Again where did I say he was responsible for the debt...... It's still there isn't it and we're printing money left and right
like it doesn't exist, that's why I say we can't afford it.
QuoteObama is wrong to deploy more troops in Afghanistan, however it wasn't a war he started, and he has to get out
of it real soon. At least he has pulled out of the missile defense programme in Eastern Europe.
The fact that he didn't start it doesn't make it any more necessary does it and we're still killing innocent people by the way
not that any of you seem to have a problem with that with the passing of 8 months... innocent Afghans and Pakistanis don't seem
to be as important as innocent Palestinians ::)
Quote
However, Obama's health care plan deserves full support, and it must go through for the sake of US citizens.
Says who...... What part of the majority of the people don't want it don't you people get, this is still a democracy!
QuoteThe cash for clunkers programme was a victim of it's own success. $1 billion was originally pledged, and due to it's
initial success, a further $2 billion was added.
f**king horse shit and you know it...it was a gross mis underestimation on their part and I notice you didn't mention the fact that to date
only 4% of the Auto dealers have received any money with some of them having no choice but to file bankruptcy..what kind of shite is that
QuoteFor 8 years George Bush and co went to war, spent billions of dollars, put the country in serious debt, lined their pockets,
then sailed of into the sunset to earn millions on the speaking circuit.
Obama is in now for 8 months, and believe you me, it will take 15 years at least to bring the US back to where it
was before Bush destroyed it.
Remember, the US was in credit when junior Bush took over?

IF you want to blame anyone for the problems facing the US, blame Bush.
Bla Bla Bla Bla f**king Bla...get over it...Bush is gone now and the ball is in Obama's court
the only thing is he's double faulting left and right..it's just that the washed can't see it (well won't admit it)
Feel free to educate me on the other Government run programmes that are mosying along swimmingly ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 18, 2009, 05:04:58 AM
freedumb
the gift of having the right of free speech to express your opinions no matter what they are...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stephenite on September 18, 2009, 05:44:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 18, 2009, 05:04:58 AM
freedumb
the gift of having the right of free speech to express your opinions no matter what they are...

Never heard that one - I like it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 18, 2009, 05:30:37 PM
QuoteEhh we already have the best health care in the world...hence thousands coming in their droves to pay to have procedures done here

You're joking right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 05:55:18 PM
QuoteGee I don't know... one could see how a chosen few might read in to it that way but tell me this Muppet what singular reason could Pelosi possibly have had to label the American Public Nazi's for exercising their right to protest against something they don't want

I'll have no problem at all answering your questions after you get around to answering mine...I quoted it above in Bold for you so you don't miss it ;) this time.
I do know it's your style and what is obviously an easy out for you to answer me with questions but I think you can do better :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 06:03:00 PM
This is the one I wanted to post yesterday but couldn't find it

Try and Guess WHO I AM?


I was born in one country, raised in another. My father was born in
another country. I was not his only child. He fathered several children with
numerous women.

* I became very close to my mother, as my father showed no Interest in me.
My mother died at an early age from cancer.
* Later in life, questions arose over my real name

* My birth records were sketchy and no one was able to produce a
legitimate, reliable birth certificate.

* I grew up practicing one faith but converted to Christianity, as it was
widely accepted in my country, but I practiced non-traditional beliefs &
didn't follow Christianity, except in the public eye under scrutiny.

* I worked and lived among lower-class people as a young adult, disguising
myself as someone who really cared about them..

* That was before I decided it was time to get serious about my life and I
embarked on a new career.

* I wrote a book about my struggles growing up. It was clear to those who
read my memoirs that I had difficulties accepting that my father abandoned
me as a child.

* I became active in local politics in my 30's then with help behind the
scenes, I literally burst onto the scene as a candidate for national office
in my 40s. They said I had a golden tongue and could talk anyone into
anything. That reinforced my conceit.

* I had a virtually non-existent resume, little work history, and no
experience in leading a single organization. Yet I was a powerful speaker
and citizens were drawn to me as though I were a magnet and they were small
roofing tacks.

* I drew incredibly large crowds during my public appearances. This
bolstered my ego.


* At first, my political campaign focused on my country's foreign policy.
I was very critical of my country in the last war and seized every
opportunity to bash my country.


* But what launched my rise to national prominence were my views on the
country's economy. I pretended to have a really good plan on how we could do
better and every poor person would be fed & housed for free.


* I knew which group was responsible for getting us into this mess. It was
the free market, banks & corporations. I decided to start making citizens
hate them and if they were envious of others who did well, the plan was
clinched tight.

* I called mine "A People's Campaign" and that sounded good to all people.

* I was the surprise candidate because I emerged from outside the
traditional path of politics & was able to gain widespread popular support.

* I knew that, if I merely offered the people 'hope' , together we could
change our country and the world.

* So, I started to make my speeches sound like they were on behalf of the
downtrodden, poor, ignorant to include "persecuted minorities" like the
Jews. My true views were not widely known & I needed to keep them unknown,
until after I became my nation's leader.

* I had to carefully guard reality, as anybody could have easily found out
what I really believed, if they had simply read my writings and examined
those people I associated with.


* I'm glad they didn't. Then I became the most powerful man in the world.
And the world learned the truth.

*Who am I? *


I am ADOLF HITLER


WHO WERE YOU THINKING OF?

Scary isn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on September 18, 2009, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 06:03:00 PM
I am ADOLF HITLER


WHO WERE YOU THINKING OF?

Scary isn't it?

Scary? Pathetic more like.

"I worked and lived among lower-class people as a young adult, disguising
myself as someone who really cared about them.." I mean come on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on September 18, 2009, 06:11:33 PM
 :D Were you in any of the youtube clips TO???  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 18, 2009, 06:17:20 PM
Quote from: nifan on September 18, 2009, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 06:03:00 PM
I am ADOLF HITLER


WHO WERE YOU THINKING OF?

Scary isn't it?

Scary? Pathetic more like.

"I worked and lived among lower-class people as a young adult, disguising
myself as someone who really cared about them.." I mean come on

Pathetic indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 18, 2009, 06:46:28 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 06:03:00 PM
I am ADOLF HITLER


WHO WERE YOU THINKING OF?

Scary isn't it?

It'd be scary if anyone were to read that list and come up with Hitler. Most of it is so obscure that only those who had read Mein Kampf would get the reference and the rest is just plain wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: anportmorforjfc on September 18, 2009, 06:58:01 PM
Whats pathetic about it? After reading that it sounds alot like Mr Obama to me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 18, 2009, 07:02:38 PM
Quote from: anportmorforjfc on September 18, 2009, 06:58:01 PM
Whats pathetic about it? After reading that it sounds alot like Mr Obama to me.

Maybe. It doesn't read like Hitler though
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 18, 2009, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 06:03:00 PM
This is the one I wanted to post yesterday but couldn't find it

Try and Guess WHO I AM?


I was born in one country, raised in another. My father was born in
another country. I was not his only child. He fathered several children with
numerous women.

Quote
* I became very close to my mother, as my father showed no Interest in me.
My mother died at an early age from cancer.
* Later in life, questions arose over my real name

This reads like a star sign.  ::)

Quote
* My birth records were sketchy and no one was able to produce a
legitimate, reliable birth certificate.

Are Hitler and Obama the only two people in history to have had that problem?

Quote
* I grew up practicing one faith but converted to Christianity, as it was
widely accepted in my country, but I practiced non-traditional beliefs &
didn't follow Christianity, except in the public eye under scrutiny.

What was this religion that Hitler practiced before Christianity?

Quote
* I worked and lived among lower-class people as a young adult, disguising
myself as someone who really cared about them..
Hitler didn't disguise himself 'as someone who really cared'. He was a complete oddball with no friends who ended up joining the army.

Quote
* That was before I decided it was time to get serious about my life and I
embarked on a new career.
Hitler joined the army. Obama was an Attorney, unless you think that is not taking life seriously?

Quote
* I wrote a book about my struggles growing up. It was clear to those who
read my memoirs that I had difficulties accepting that my father abandoned
me as a child.
Angelas Ashes had more in common with Mein Kampf.  ::)

Quote
* I became active in local politics in my 30's then with help behind the
scenes, I literally burst onto the scene as a candidate for national office
in my 40s. They said I had a golden tongue and could talk anyone into
anything. That reinforced my conceit.
That describes most politicians in the world.

Quote
* I had a virtually non-existent resume, little work history, and no
experience in leading a single organization. Yet I was a powerful speaker
and citizens were drawn to me as though I were a magnet and they were small
roofing tacks.
::) ::)

Quote
* I drew incredibly large crowds during my public appearances. This
bolstered my ego.

Maybe Hitler was a  born again O'Connell or Parnell or Davitt. This actually flatters Obama IMHO.

Quote
* At first, my political campaign focused on my country's foreign policy.
I was very critical of my country in the last war and seized every
opportunity to bash my country.

Only the insane believe this of either Hitler or Obama.

Quote
* But what launched my rise to national prominence were my views on the
country's economy. I pretended to have a really good plan on how we could do
better and every poor person would be fed & housed for free.
Obama can't be judged on most of the above yet, he hasn't even been there a year and the lunatics are trying to portray him as Hitler, for looking after citizens.

Quote
* I knew which group was responsible for getting us into this mess. It was
the free market, banks & corporations. I decided to start making citizens
hate them and if they were envious of others who did well, the plan was
clinched tight.
Hitler blamed the Treaty of Versailles but let's not let the truth get in the way of Republican propaganda.

* I called mine "A People's Campaign" and that sounded good to all people.
Quote
* I was the surprise candidate because I emerged from outside the
traditional path of politics & was able to gain widespread popular support.
So there we have it, Hitler and Obama the only two surprise candidates in history.
Quote
* I knew that, if I merely offered the people 'hope' , together we could
change our country and the world.
Better call in the War Crimes people.
Quote
* So, I started to make my speeches sound like they were on behalf of the
downtrodden, poor, ignorant to include "persecuted minorities" like the
Jews. My true views were not widely known & I needed to keep them unknown,
until after I became my nation's leader.
Just as well Mother Teresa never decided to conquer the world.
Quote
* I had to carefully guard reality, as anybody could have easily found out
what I really believed, if they had simply read my writings and examined
those people I associated with.
I take it the author wrote this about himself?

Quote
* I'm glad they didn't. Then I became the most powerful man in the world.
And the world learned the truth.

*Who am I? *


I am ADOLF HITLER


WHO WERE YOU THINKING OF?

Scary isn't it?

Yes, artificially generated fear can be as scary as real fears. Particularly to the uneducated.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 18, 2009, 07:54:48 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 06:03:00 PM
This is the one I wanted to post yesterday but couldn't find it

Try and Guess WHO I AM?


I was born in one country, raised in another. My father was born in
another country. I was not his only child. He fathered several children with
numerous women.

* I became very close to my mother, as my father showed no Interest in me.
My mother died at an early age from cancer.
* Later in life, questions arose over my real name

* My birth records were sketchy and no one was able to produce a
legitimate, reliable birth certificate.

* I grew up practicing one faith but converted to Christianity, as it was
widely accepted in my country, but I practiced non-traditional beliefs &
didn't follow Christianity, except in the public eye under scrutiny.

* I worked and lived among lower-class people as a young adult, disguising
myself as someone who really cared about them..

* That was before I decided it was time to get serious about my life and I
embarked on a new career.

* I wrote a book about my struggles growing up. It was clear to those who
read my memoirs that I had difficulties accepting that my father abandoned
me as a child.

* I became active in local politics in my 30's then with help behind the
scenes, I literally burst onto the scene as a candidate for national office
in my 40s. They said I had a golden tongue and could talk anyone into
anything. That reinforced my conceit.

* I had a virtually non-existent resume, little work history, and no
experience in leading a single organization. Yet I was a powerful speaker
and citizens were drawn to me as though I were a magnet and they were small
roofing tacks.

* I drew incredibly large crowds during my public appearances. This
bolstered my ego.


* At first, my political campaign focused on my country's foreign policy.
I was very critical of my country in the last war and seized every
opportunity to bash my country.


* But what launched my rise to national prominence were my views on the
country's economy. I pretended to have a really good plan on how we could do
better and every poor person would be fed & housed for free.


* I knew which group was responsible for getting us into this mess. It was
the free market, banks & corporations. I decided to start making citizens
hate them and if they were envious of others who did well, the plan was
clinched tight.

* I called mine "A People's Campaign" and that sounded good to all people.

* I was the surprise candidate because I emerged from outside the
traditional path of politics & was able to gain widespread popular support.

* I knew that, if I merely offered the people 'hope' , together we could
change our country and the world.

* So, I started to make my speeches sound like they were on behalf of the
downtrodden, poor, ignorant to include "persecuted minorities" like the
Jews. My true views were not widely known & I needed to keep them unknown,
until after I became my nation's leader.

* I had to carefully guard reality, as anybody could have easily found out
what I really believed, if they had simply read my writings and examined
those people I associated with.


* I'm glad they didn't. Then I became the most powerful man in the world.
And the world learned the truth.

*Who am I? *


I am ADOLF HITLER


WHO WERE YOU THINKING OF?

Scary isn't it?

Oh Dear! No hope for TO at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 18, 2009, 08:04:29 PM
If they think Obama is Hitler imagine what they would make of Cowen?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on September 18, 2009, 08:14:09 PM
they neglected the other spooky parallels - the black shirted stormtroopers, the attempted violent coup, the assasination of said stormtroopers.

still we have such strong similarities as "I had to carefully guard reality, as anybody could have easily found out what I really believed, if they had simply read my writings and examined
those people I associated with."
Damning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whiskeysteve on September 18, 2009, 08:23:43 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2009, 06:03:00 PM

* That was before I decided it was time to get serious about my life and I
embarked on a new career.


Wow, that clue just screams Hitler.

May I suggest a few others?

*I have dark coloured hair

*As I grew up I became politically aware

*I eat breakfast most mornings

*As a young man I became politically active

*I have been known to wear a suit in public


We'll nail them as doppelgangers yet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 09:13:06 PM
Tyrones own, maybe you thinking about yourself and your latest stupid post when you said this to me yesterday:

John,

Why not try to keep any bit of credibility ye have on here without posting propagandized, heavily....... edited shite like that.

Or this classic: 

Bla Bla Bla Bla f**king Bla...get over it

You are stooping very low when you try to compare Obama to Hitler.
Bush was more like Hitler, given his thirst for blood and war.............
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 18, 2009, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 09:13:06 PM
Tyrones own, maybe you thinking about yourself and your latest stupid post when you said this to me yesterday:

John,

Why not try to keep any bit of credibility ye have on here without posting propagandized, heavily....... edited shite like that.

Or this classic: 

Bla Bla Bla Bla f**king Bla...get over it

You are stooping very low when you try to compare Obama to Hitler.
Bush was more like Hitler, given his thirst for blood and war.............

Yea actually................

Both had been in a bar BEFORE they got elected.
Both drove on the left even though their politics were on the right
Both used the word National on many occasions
Both were fans of the arts, Hitler was a crap artist and Bush was a piss artist.
Both hated the commies.

Wow, isn't that scary?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 18, 2009, 09:53:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 18, 2009, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 09:13:06 PM
Tyrones own, maybe you thinking about yourself and your latest stupid post when you said this to me yesterday:

John,

Why not try to keep any bit of credibility ye have on here without posting propagandized, heavily....... edited shite like that.

Or this classic: 

Bla Bla Bla Bla f**king Bla...get over it

You are stooping very low when you try to compare Obama to Hitler.
Bush was more like Hitler, given his thirst for blood and war.............

Yea actually................

Both had been in a bar BEFORE they got elected.
Both drove on the left even though their politics were on the right
Both used the word National on many occasions
Both were fans of the arts, Hitler was a crap artist and Bush was a piss artist.
Both hated the commies.

Wow, isn't that scary?

I really did that LOL thing there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on September 18, 2009, 10:33:13 PM
Tyrones own, by the way, another thing.......

Quote
The cash for clunkers programme was a victim of it's own success. $1 billion was originally pledged, and due to it's
initial success, a further $2 billion was added.

f**king horse shit and you know it...it was a gross mis underestimation on their part and I notice you didn't mention the fact that to date
only 4% of the Auto dealers have received any money with some of them having no choice but to file bankruptcy..what kind of shite is that

This is the information that you called shite and f**king horse shit.
From The Wall Street Journal this week:

By Josh Mitchell

Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--The Obama administration has approved payments to auto dealers for nearly $2.4 billion in vouchers issued under the "cash for clunkers" program, and expects to have all payments issued by the end of the month, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Wednesday.

The program, which provided vouchers of $4,500 for consumers to trade in their old gas guzzlers, is credited by White House economists for boosting auto sales by 440,000 between June and August, LaHood told a national conference of dealers in Washington. It has contributed $3.6 billion to GDP in 2009, he said.

-Josh Mitchell, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-6637; joshua.mitchell@dowjones.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090916-708300.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 02:03:42 AM
 :D WOE WOE WOE Girls.....pull the thongs out of the holes and hang on a minute here, The Hitler thing was a cut and paste (not my words for those of you are actually that slow) in reply to the board Intellect's post #60 and in your careless drive (more play ground tactics) to berate me, ye didn't even take the time to notice that it nor I even mentioned Obama.... :D You brought up the Nazi thing remember... remember, you remember.

For the second time muppet...it was to clue you in (wish me luck)as to how some of the gobshites at these protests could perceive Obama as a Nazi but of course you being you take it as a stick to beat me with ::) rather than man up and actually talk about the real issues....you know the ones...the reason I started the thread...Acorn...Van Jones... Pelosi name calling the people she represents, Cass Sunstein and yes I know you'll come back with you never heard of him but he's the Obama animal rights Czar who thinks animals should be allowed to sue Humans and that hunting and the eating of meat should be banned :o.....Where are the boy's who face palmed and rolled their eyes at Palin's fcuk ups now with what this out and out nutter has going??
And yes this is a fecking Adviser to Obama !!







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 02:33:07 AM

John...
again if you were paying attention you'd know I'm going after the handling (or lack there of) of the program, though IMO all it did was push the problem down the road three months...We'll watch closely for the real truth when the figures come out for 1st or 2nd qtr's of next year.....I shouldn't knock it completely though cause I have a few good friends that are now the proud owners of  brand newAmerican beauty's by way of it..Thanks BO ;D
And yes if he had any brains he would have curtailed it to American Car companies only ...you know, like the one he now controls
but of course  that would make too much sense ::) The Japanese came out on top on this one, Well done Barrack..any wonder the unemployment figures
are where they are... Good job he pushed that stimulus package through, I'm sure you all remember the fear mongering
that if we didn't act right now Unemployment rates would reach as far as 8%...FFS we're now headed for 10% and not a word out of the blinkered sheep
here who used.................... to pay awful close attention to an administration's every move ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2009, 04:49:52 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 02:03:42 AM
:D WOE WOE WOE Girls.....pull the thongs out of the holes and hang on a minute here, The Hitler thing was a cut and paste (not my words for those of you are actually that slow) in reply to the board Intellect's post #60 and in your careless drive (more play ground tactics) to berate me, ye didn't even take the time to notice that it nor I even mentioned Obama.... :D You brought up the Nazi thing remember... remember, you remember.

For the second time muppet...it was to clue you in (wish me luck)as to how some of the gobshites at these protests could perceive Obama as a Nazi but of course you being you take it as a stick to beat me with ::) rather than man up and actually talk about the real issues....you know the ones...the reason I started the thread...Acorn...Van Jones... Pelosi name calling the people she represents, Cass Sunstein and yes I know you'll come back with you never heard of him but he's the Obama animal rights Czar who thinks animals should be allowed to sue Humans and that hunting and the eating of meat should be banned :o.....Where are the boy's who face palmed and rolled their eyes at Palin's fcuk ups now with what this out and out nutter has going??
And yes this is a fecking Adviser to Obama !!

And here I thought Sustein's (a law professor at Harvard Law School) logic was that by granting standing to animals, that a third party could take legal action against a person for animal cruelty, something they can't currently do. And whether or not you think the views of this man in what is a fairly irrelevant position in the grand scheme of things are extreme, its hardly comparable to some of Bush's appointees, whether clueless political hacks like Michael Brown in charge of an agency of real significance, or some of the many foxes he put guarding the various federal henhouses, positions of real power, not just advisory.

Van Jones was idiotic for signing that 9/11 petition, granted, and assuming he held those views, was a liability, but apparently he has been very effective, particularly working across party lines, in the environmental area. But regardless, Van Jones, Acorn and Sustein are among the "real issues"? Yes, I know Beck, Hannity and the rest are going to go through Obama's advisors to find the slightest little thing that they can rabble rouse the right wing with, but the same boys would have be crying foul if anyone tried to do the same with Republican appointees, among whom generally feature numerous religious whackjobs and people who know little about their posts but are good conservative loyalists. Christ they were up in arms over the tiny percentage of judges that Democrats actually blocked on Bush, as well as being all for the so-called nuclear option in the senate back when it suited them. And for all the crying them and the Republican congressional people are doing about Pelosi comparing the current rhetoric to what happened to Milk, how much crap did we have to listen to about patriotism and "unamerican" and "extremism" back when people were protesting Iraq war?

That said, missteps he may have made, I would still much prefer Obama to having the Republicans back in charge. Obama took on a thankless task in tackling the health care issue, as no matter what proposals anyone comes up with, a huge minority of the congress from some side is going to object to them. While they differ on what to do, most Americans think something needs to be done to sort out the costs and bankruptcy issues, and while it might have been safer to let it go, at least he has had the guts to try. Whether he will pay much of a price for that remains to be seen, but it appears that the Republicans are more concerned with making sure he does pay a price rather than actually doing anything to help solve the problem (if Obama hadn't pushed for a quick bill on healthcare, we'd still be hearing about the birth certificate!) And yes, the Dems would probably be doing the same thing if it was some major issue of importance the Republicans were trying to sort out. American political discourse is just revolting.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 06:22:44 AM
QuoteAnd here I thought Sustein's (a law professor at Harvard Law School) logic was that by granting standing to animals, that a third party could take legal action against a person for animal cruelty, something they can't currently do. And whether or not you think the views of this man in what is a fairly irrelevant position in the grand scheme of things are extreme, its hardly comparable to some of Bush's appointees, whether clueless political hacks like Michael Brown in charge of an agency of real significance, or some of the many foxes he put guarding the various federal henhouses, positions of real power, not just advisory.
So because he's a leftist professor at Harvard he's somehow above being described as a raving lune and should be gifted a free pass?
and the fact that your trying to sugar coat it doesn't show you to be any less of a lune!

Lets talk about the fox guarding the hen house, stop me when any of the following names don't make you out to be blinkered and biased
How about Tom Dashle with his lobbying ties to Alston and Bird yet got the nod to head the Department of Health and Human Service,
or Tim Geithner... Obama's Treasury Secretary nominee, and the man in charge of the IRS, :o
Bill Richardson getting the nod from Obama as Commerce Secretary but had to pull out because of his pay to play scandal of awarding state contracts
to a company that contributed to him.
Rahm Emanuel Chief of staff.... amongst other things his cosying up with the later disgraced and impeached blagojevich in true Chicago style politics
Van Jones, "assuming he held those views" are you kidding me? I could post the videos to prove it...as if you need me to :-[
......I could go on if you'd like as it really isn't that difficult

Now that's the true definition of the fox guarding the hens but I see now that when the pressure goes on and Obama is showing himself inept across the
board it's back to the Bush bashing *yawn* I take it you boy's realize that ye are now equating a lot of this stuff with Bush's administration but surely that isn't
what you voted for what with the Hope and Change an all that ;D...what'll it be next, the race card...Oh wait  that's right, anyone that now speaks out against his policies is a Racist
Us "crazy's" on the right did foresee and warned of this shite and sure enough thon senile stupid old Fcuk Carter, Pelosi and her gang did not disappoint


Feck it I have to head out..I will return to this tomorrow..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 19, 2009, 12:17:07 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 02:03:42 AM
:D WOE WOE WOE Girls.....pull the thongs out of the holes and hang on a minute here, The Hitler thing was a cut and paste (not my words for those of you are actually that slow) in reply to the board Intellect's post #60 and in your careless drive (more play ground tactics) to berate me, ye didn't even take the time to notice that it nor I even mentioned Obama.... :D You brought up the Nazi thing remember... remember, you remember.

Words cannot describe just how disingenuous this is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on September 19, 2009, 12:24:32 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 02:03:42 AM
:D WOE WOE WOE Girls.....pull the thongs out of the holes and hang on a minute here, The Hitler thing was a cut and paste (not my words for those of you are actually that slow) in reply to the board Intellect's post #60 and in your careless drive (more play ground tactics) to berate me, ye didn't even take the time to notice that it nor I even mentioned Obama.... :D You brought up the Nazi thing remember... remember, you remember.


Ah ok, becasue it was just a copy and paste people shouldnt ridicule it for what it is?
As for not mentioning obama  :D who where we supposed to be led into believing it was
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2009, 03:24:20 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 06:22:44 AM
QuoteAnd here I thought Sustein's (a law professor at Harvard Law School) logic was that by granting standing to animals, that a third party could take legal action against a person for animal cruelty, something they can't currently do. And whether or not you think the views of this man in what is a fairly irrelevant position in the grand scheme of things are extreme, its hardly comparable to some of Bush's appointees, whether clueless political hacks like Michael Brown in charge of an agency of real significance, or some of the many foxes he put guarding the various federal henhouses, positions of real power, not just advisory.
So because he's a leftist professor at Harvard he's somehow above being described as a raving lune and should be gifted a free pass?
and the fact that your trying to sugar coat it doesn't show you to be any less of a lune!

Lets talk about the fox guarding the hen house, stop me when any of the following names don't make you out to be blinkered and biased
How about Tom Dashle with his lobbying ties to Alston and Bird yet got the nod to head the Department of Health and Human Service,
or Tim Geithner... Obama's Treasury Secretary nominee, and the man in charge of the IRS, :o
Bill Richardson getting the nod from Obama as Commerce Secretary but had to pull out because of his pay to play scandal of awarding state contracts
to a company that contributed to him.
Rahm Emanuel Chief of staff.... amongst other things his cosying up with the later disgraced and impeached blagojevich in true Chicago style politics
Van Jones, "assuming he held those views" are you kidding me? I could post the videos to prove it...as if you need me to :-[
......I could go on if you'd like as it really isn't that difficult

Now that's the true definition of the fox guarding the hens but I see now that when the pressure goes on and Obama is showing himself inept across the
board it's back to the Bush bashing *yawn* I take it you boy's realize that ye are now equating a lot of this stuff with Bush's administration but surely that isn't
what you voted for what with the Hope and Change an all that ;D...what'll it be next, the race card...Oh wait  that's right, anyone that now speaks out against his policies is a Racist
Us "crazy's" on the right did foresee and warned of this shite and sure enough thon senile stupid old Fcuk Carter, Pelosi and her gang did not disappoint


Feck it I have to head out..I will return to this tomorrow..

I did not say that anywhere someone being a leftist professor should allow him a pass. I did not sugar coat anything - I simply said that I did not see anything very extreme about Sustein views, but that even if he was an extremist, his position is not exactly powerful. You are the one hyping things.

As for the lobbying ties, I was simply pointing out that this stuff that seems to offend you so much was and is rampant under Republicans as well, when the idea seems to be put industry or loyal inexperienced people in charge so that they can weaken regulations and enforcement. And I hope you were out marching against the likes of Abramov and his close ties to Republican elites back in the earlier years of this decade.

And I don't know what other people here have said, but I haven't mentioned racism, while many Democrats, including Obama as recently as yesterday, have disavowed themselves from Carter's comments. So address that f**king bullshit to someone else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 19, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2009, 03:24:20 PM
And I don't know what other people here have said, but I haven't mentioned racism, while many Democrats, including Obama as recently as yesterday, have disavowed themselves from Carter's comments. So address that f**king bullshit to someone else.

It's amusing to see the people complaining about Obama et al playing the race card are the same people who accused Obama of hating white people when he didn't choose a white man for the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 04:30:56 PM
Quote
I did not say that anywhere someone being a leftist professor should allow him a pass. I did not sugar coat anything - I simply said that I did not see anything very extreme about Sustein views, but that even if he was an extremist, his position is not exactly powerful. You are the one hyping things.
Even if we leave out the glaringly idiotic point that animals should be offered the right to sue humans,( even though it is his view) am I to understand that the proposal to ban hunting and eating meat is not extreme in you mind ???
The reason I give you a list of names was to hit back at your sneaky point about Browne, I'd say you'll agree there's a lot more cronyism and corruption employed in far more important roles now than what browne held ::) and again if you think I'm wrong then please explain!
QuoteAs for the lobbying ties, I was simply pointing out that this stuff that seems to offend you so much was and is rampant under Republicans as well, when the idea seems to be put industry or loyal inexperienced people in charge so that they can weaken regulations and enforcement. And I hope you were out marching against the likes of Abramov and his close ties to Republican elites back in the earlier years of this decade.
There you go again equating this administration with the last one.... do you realize how silly this make ye look :D and that it's actually admitting nothing at all has changed!!
Please stop with the childish Republican comparisons (I'm not a Republican and have as much of a beef with them as you probably do! ) and take it on for what it is... my mere pointing out that it's
the same old Washington/Chicago cronyism and wink and nod corruption nothing at all has changed with the Messiah coming to office, it's as corrupt as ever it was, it's just that none of you have the balls to stand up and man up ::) again if you think I'm wrong then please do explain :-\
QuoteAnd I don't know what other people here have said, but I haven't mentioned racism, while many Democrats, including Obama as recently as yesterday, have disavowed themselves from Carter's comments. So address that f**king bullshit to someone else.
So Pelosi gets a free pass on this also not only has she said it's racism but that she stood up with the crocodile tears and said she fears physical violence like
in San Francisco in the 70's >:( WTF is that, is she in sighting Assassination fears or what! could they stoop any lower to try to stifle the American public's views, wishes and constitutional rights...oh and by the way what's your take on her calling the demonstrators Nazi's?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 04:34:13 PM
Quote from: nifan on September 19, 2009, 12:24:32 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 02:03:42 AM
:D WOE WOE WOE Girls.....pull the thongs out of the holes and hang on a minute here, The Hitler thing was a cut and paste (not my words for those of you are actually that slow) in reply to the board Intellect's post #60 and in your careless drive (more play ground tactics) to berate me, ye didn't even take the time to notice that it nor I even mentioned Obama.... :D You brought up the Nazi thing remember... remember, you remember.


Ah ok, becasue it was just a copy and paste people shouldnt ridicule it for what it is?
As for not mentioning obama  :D who where we supposed to be led into believing it was
Good man yourself you actually bring the point across better than I did :D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2009, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 04:30:56 PM
Quote
I did not say that anywhere someone being a leftist professor should allow him a pass. I did not sugar coat anything - I simply said that I did not see anything very extreme about Sustein views, but that even if he was an extremist, his position is not exactly powerful. You are the one hyping things.
Even if we leave out the glaringly idiotic point that animals should be offered the right to sue humans,( even though it is his view) am I to understand that the proposal to ban hunting and eating meat is not extreme in you mind ???
The reason I give you a list of names was to hit back at your sneaky point about Browne, I'd say you'll agree there's a lot more cronyism and corruption employed in far more important roles now than what browne held ::) and again if you think I'm wrong then please explain!
QuoteAs for the lobbying ties, I was simply pointing out that this stuff that seems to offend you so much was and is rampant under Republicans as well, when the idea seems to be put industry or loyal inexperienced people in charge so that they can weaken regulations and enforcement. And I hope you were out marching against the likes of Abramov and his close ties to Republican elites back in the earlier years of this decade.
There you go again equating this administration with the last one.... do you realize how silly this make ye look :D and that it's actually admitting nothing at all has changed!!
Please stop with the childish Republican comparisons (I'm not a Republican and have as much of a beef with them as you probably do! ) and take it on for what it is... my mere pointing out that it's
the same old Washington/Chicago cronyism and wink and nod corruption nothing at all has changed with the Messiah coming to office, it's as corrupt as ever it was, it's just that none of you have the balls to stand up and man up ::) again if you think I'm wrong then please do explain :-\
QuoteAnd I don't know what other people here have said, but I haven't mentioned racism, while many Democrats, including Obama as recently as yesterday, have disavowed themselves from Carter's comments. So address that f**king bullshit to someone else.
So Pelosi gets a free pass on this also not only has she said it's racism but that she stood up with the crocodile tears and said she fears physical violence like
in San Francisco in the 70's >:( WTF is that, is she in sighting Assassination fears or what! could they stoop any lower to try to stifle the American public's views, wishes and constitutional rights...oh and by the way what's your take on her calling the demonstrators Nazi's?

Look TO, I have never said that the democrats are cleaner than the republicans or vice versa. You're the one banging on and on, interpreting every little thing in the worst possible way when it comes to the democrat and liberals. Do you really expect me not to point out the apparent hypocrisy? But now you inform us you're not a republican... fine, but you're a self-identified conservative and the republicans represent you in mainstream politics and I am pretty positive you would prefer to see them in charge at the moment. You certainly seem to get your back up when anyone criticizes them or the US conservative point of view here, but if you think that leaves you clear to point out problems with the democrats, but free to deflect anything pointed out about the republicans as nothing to do with you, fine, have it your way!
I am opposed to the republicans because I disagree with far more of their policies than I do the democrats, not because I think the democrats are more ethical or clean. And as someone who is an atheist who couldn't give a f**k if my two male neighbours are married and who loves science and would like to see wildlife and environment and workers given some decent level of protection and have some kind of social safety net in place I simply do not feel welcome in the republican party as it currently stands, even if I do agree with them on some issues. I'm sure I'm a liberal extremist with Savage's mental disorder in your eyes. If so, I don't give a f**k. I'll defend my views anytime. What I am not going to do is defend every little bit and pandering and idiocy that you can pull out from Nancy Pelosi or Jimmy Carter, as if those discredited my views and elevated your's by default.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 19, 2009, 05:23:37 PM
Edit: deleted my reply. On reflection, I don't want to get involved
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 19, 2009, 05:28:12 PM
OK that's fair enough but I didn't start this up again to get my back against a wall and fend off the masses here but the inevitable happens
every time with the usual suspects who don't actually know enough to know that they know very little but will try to hammer me at every turn anyway:-*
Their time would be much better spent googling some of the names I bring up rather then the mindless sniping at me but hey bring it on!

I do be in Ireland periodically and am very well aware of the degree of ignorance back there in regards to Bush/Obama comparisons...Funny how
they know where Wiki is to look up stuff on their favorite soccer player or the like  ::)but that's where it stops!
Anyway ball breaking aside and back to the reason I brought this back to life; what is your take on the Acorn news of this past week for instance?
or Pelosi calling citizen's Nazi's? are the wheels coming off this thing out of desperation or what?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2009, 05:51:40 PM
I think it is entirely correct that Acorn have had their funding cut and their management needs to get a grip on what is going on in their organization if four out of ten places (or whatever it was) that were visited by these undercover people engaged them and offered the kind of advice that they did. And if crimes have been committed, then the authorities should do their job.
Pelosi has never particularly impressed me and should know at this point that those kinds of statements are politically unhelpful, even if they are her and her constituent's honest opinions. I don't think the wheels are coming off, but I think Obama has some tough choices in the coming weeks between the healthcare thing, Afghanistan, on whether to do the politically expedient thing and block Holder's CIA investigations and so on. If he plays it wrong, he could be badly damaged. If it goes well and the economy starts to pick up as they're saying, he could be in decent shape going into the start of the midterms, although the republicans will probably make some gains next year regardless of what happens. Public opinion is mostly influenced by recent events (who the hell is talking about Sotemayor now, for example?!), so time is on his side, if, as I say, he plays it right.

With that, its a beautiful day in NYC. I am off to do something constructive!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 20, 2009, 12:13:26 AM
QuoteI think it is entirely correct that Acorn have had their funding cut and their management needs to get a grip on what is going on in their organization if four out of ten places (or whatever it was) that were visited by these undercover people engaged them and offered the kind of advice that they did. And if crimes have been committed, then the authorities should do their job.
If crimes have been committed ??? this is a federally funded organization on camera committing numerous crimes
for example, aiding and abetting Human trafficking, underage prostitution (as young as 13 yrs old ) :o
tax evasion (even though again they're funded by tax payers dollars) to name a few and please do remember Obama's lengthy ties and stated admiration of their work >:(
QuotePelosi has never particularly impressed me and should know at this point that those kinds of statements are politically unhelpful, even if they are her and her constituent's honest opinions.
Politically unhelpful...could you possibly play it down any further :-\ and honest opinions, I think not...this is where i disagree, to turn on your
own citizens with this type of rhetoric or insulting behavior is completely indicative of a person or party that out of sheer desperation has lost all run
of themselves IMO !

Don't get me started on Holder...what's your take on the John Adams Project? To those that don't know.... these scumbags are actively unapologetically seeking out, photographing CIA agents and showing them to Gitmo Detainees :o...
Remember the hysteria and push from the left over Valerie Plame being outed by chance ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2009, 01:59:02 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 20, 2009, 12:13:26 AM
QuoteI think it is entirely correct that Acorn have had their funding cut and their management needs to get a grip on what is going on in their organization if four out of ten places (or whatever it was) that were visited by these undercover people engaged them and offered the kind of advice that they did. And if crimes have been committed, then the authorities should do their job.
If crimes have been committed ??? this is a federally funded organization on camera committing numerous crimes
for example, aiding and abetting Human trafficking, underage prostitution (as young as 13 yrs old ) :o
tax evasion (even though again they're funded by tax payers dollars) to name a few and please do remember Obama's lengthy ties and stated admiration of their work >:(

Which is all the more reason to root out the bad apples, or if its systemic, then do what needs to be done. I know your side thinks they are rotten to the core and have little sympathy for their mission, but someone else will take their place and continue their work for the poor and minorities. I don't know what you want from me here - do you expect me to defend the things that are being alleged against them? If its true, its outrageous and I hope those who engaged in such activities get what's coming to them. And if Obama was complicit, then him too. I just hope you're so outraged and outspoken here when the next scandal concerning a right wing group who have worked with some high profile conservative comes up.

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 20, 2009, 12:13:26 AM
QuotePelosi has never particularly impressed me and should know at this point that those kinds of statements are politically unhelpful, even if they are her and her constituent's honest opinions.
Politically unhelpful...could you possibly play it down any further :-\ and honest opinions, I think not...this is where i disagree, to turn on your
own citizens with this type of rhetoric or insulting behavior is completely indicative of a person or party that out of sheer desperation has lost all run
of themselves IMO !

You're entitled to your opinion. I don't see how the current situation the democrats find themselves in could be described as desperation in any shape or form. And if they are, then where are the republicans? As I said in the last post, even if Pelosi holds those views, why air them? Its not politically smart for someone in her position. I couldn't give a f**k whether she personally thinks the some unhinged nut could end up assassinating someone as happened with Milk - its hardly beyond the realms of possibility in America.

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 20, 2009, 12:13:26 AM
Don't get me started on Holder...what's your take on the John Adams Project? To those that don't know.... these scumbags are actively unapologetically seeking out, photographing CIA agents and showing them to Gitmo Detainees :o...
Remember the hysteria and push from the left over Valerie Plame being outed by chance ???

Again, if the lawyers committed crimes, then prosecute them. What do you want me to say? And Plame "outed by chance"? I guess we're all a wee bit selective in our interpretation of events. And ignoring of course the difference between some defense lawyers with ties to the ACLU and the vice-president's office.

We can go on all week like this, but I don't see the point. I get that you (or at least your gaaboard persona) are beside yourself with anger and resentment at Obama and the democrats. I am not going to defend the indefensible (when that applies) and I am just not arsed enough to go and catalogue republican/conservative scandals and hypocrisy and engage in endless whataboutery with you. My main concern is over policies. If my political representatives engage in poor behaviour or even crime, I am not going to complain that they should not suffer the consequences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 20, 2009, 03:37:59 AM
An extreme amount of ifs, ands, and buts there... hardly takes a rocket scientist to see that I'm simply highlighting
the vast corruption and ineptness that this administration is headed and surrounded by not to mention the sheer hypocrisy and insults directed
at me for calling them out ahead of time from most lads here for being a right wing hater and a fear monger...well as Rev wright would say
"The chickens have come home to roost" 
Lord knows some of my findings and facts don't seem to make the headline of the papers and news networks commonly quoted by some here :-\

Sure I voted for W in '04 for the simple reason being I felt the country was safer with him at the helm against attack..which turned out to be
a fact, but at least I can admit wanting to see the back of him as well, this is where I differ from the in crowd here, Obama and his ilk
can simply do no wrong even though the level of ignorance to the reality of the goings on here is mind blowing.
By the way you took the "by chance" out of context, it was meant "if you remembered the outcry by any chance!

The good news is I'm seeing far fewer Obama '08 Stickers and many more "I'm sorry now I voted for him" ones
which is warming to know that contrary to popular belief I just might not be in the minority like some would like to think ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2009, 06:16:15 AM
I stand corrected on the "by chance" thing. Honest mistake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muhammed McCarthy on September 20, 2009, 09:19:34 AM
Thank f**k we have only the "chuckle brothers" mark II to worry about, but as the saying goes "you get the politicians you deserve".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 20, 2009, 05:45:21 PM
Nancy P is a political trollop, A liar of the highest order and I hope she gets the clap, absolutely despise the bitch. Thatcheresque in her likeability and integrity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 20, 2009, 05:58:31 PM
Quote from: stew on September 20, 2009, 05:45:21 PM
Nancy P is a political trollop, A liar of the highest order and I hope she gets the clap, absolutely despise the bitch. Thatcheresque in her likeability and integrity.

Don't hold back ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 20, 2009, 05:59:52 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 20, 2009, 05:58:31 PM
Quote from: stew on September 20, 2009, 05:45:21 PM
Nancy P is a political trollop, A liar of the highest order and I hope she gets the clap, absolutely despise the bitch. Thatcheresque in her likeability and integrity.

Don't hold back ;D

She should be in Jail right now, not part of Obama's posse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 21, 2009, 03:06:27 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 20, 2009, 03:37:59 AM
An extreme amount of ifs, ands, and buts there... hardly takes a rocket scientist to see that I'm simply highlighting
the vast corruption and ineptness that this administration is headed and surrounded by not to mention the sheer hypocrisy and insults directed
at me for calling them out ahead of time from most lads here for being a right wing hater and a fear monger...well as Rev wright would say
"The chickens have come home to roost" 
Lord knows some of my findings and facts don't seem to make the headline of the papers and news networks commonly quoted by some here :-\

Sure I voted for W in '04 for the simple reason being I felt the country was safer with him at the helm against attack..which turned out to be
a fact, but at least I can admit wanting to see the back of him as well, this is where I differ from the in crowd here, Obama and his ilk
can simply do no wrong even though the level of ignorance to the reality of the goings on here is mind blowing.
By the way you took the "by chance" out of context, it was meant "if you remembered the outcry by any chance!

The good news is I'm seeing far fewer Obama '08 Stickers and many more "I'm sorry now I voted for him" ones
which is warming to know that contrary to popular belief I just might not be in the minority like some would like to think ;)

What was the fact? That you voted for him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 21, 2009, 05:30:32 AM
QuoteWhat was the fact? That you voted for him?
Na the fact being that you're so embarrassingly light on knowledge, facts or God forbid an opinion ::)
that you're reduced to picking single words or phrases out of my posts these day's rather than the actual
point being made..... :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 21, 2009, 07:16:20 AM
the never argue with an idiot because first they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience comes to mind......................
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 12:42:24 AM
Ah sure it's like the auld saying.."Opinions are like Arseholes, everyone has one" except for poor Muppet that is :-[
he just has to wipe his chin a bit more than most :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ziggysego on September 22, 2009, 12:45:30 AM
Hopefully this will calm everyone the f**k down and you can agree.

(http://www.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/bush-obama.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 12:48:30 AM
Very good Zig :D..how come you don't have it as an Avator :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 05:00:18 AM
Did any of ye happen to catch Michelle Obama on Fri with the quivering lip and the crocodile
tear in her eye about the poor people of this country needing help with medical coverage...
not tomorrow, not next year but right now.

Now I understand that to a large extent this is very true and lends itself well to the agenda being pushed here
but I wonder was she as beaten up over it in '05/'06 when she was drawing in a 300+K salary
( tripled 2 months after hubby got him self elected to the senate ) while serving on the board of the University of Chicago medical center in a
position that didn't exist before she got there and has not been filled since she left in '07 ::) True Chicago style Cronyism or what?
they even payed her a salary of 67k for the year after she left, wonder how she factored in the down trodden in accepting that ::)

Said Medical center of which she set on the board was investigated and widely reported at the time to have been busing
out poor uninsured people to surrounding hospitals to free up the emergency rooms at her hospital for insured, paying patients :o
so much so that the investigation almost cost the medical center it's tax exemption status.... Now how's that for an eye opener in to
the Obama's and their caring nature of the medical care situation of the down trodden? Bet ye haven't read much about this tit bit of a news story in Ireland
...mind you it's not exactly widely reported here either right enough sure only a racist would bring any of this up ::)
The lot of them are Liars and blatant hypocrites of the highest order but even they can only keep up the facade for so long..hence the rush!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 22, 2009, 10:18:59 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 05:00:18 AM
Now I understand that to a large extent this is very true and lends itself well to the agenda being pushed here
but I wonder was she as beaten up over it in '05/'06 when she was drawing in a 300+K salary
( tripled 2 months after hubby got him self elected to the senate ) while serving on the board of the University of Chicago medical center in a
position that didn't exist before she got there and has not been filled since she left in '07 ::) True Chicago style Cronyism or what?
they even payed her a salary of 67k for the year after she left, wonder how she factored in the down trodden in accepting that ::)

A farrago of nonsense

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/michelle-obamas-salary/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 22, 2009, 12:35:07 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 12:42:24 AM
Ah sure it's like the auld saying.."Opinions are like Arseholes, everyone has one" except for poor Muppet that is :-[
he just has to wipe his chin a bit more than most :-*

That sort of post sums up USA politics nicely.

Over there it passes for debate, over here it wouldn't make the tabloids.

Listen to Michael Graham on George Hook's show. He is obviously very intelligent and articulate but supresses that to resort to issue 'leftie pinko' diatribes to anyone who doesn't bow to republican thinking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:27:42 PM
I think Obama is fantastic. Pity we can't vote him in here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: anportmorforjfc on September 22, 2009, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:27:42 PM
I think Obama is fantastic. Pity we can't vote him in here.


why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: anportmorforjfc on September 22, 2009, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:27:42 PM
I think Obama is fantastic. Pity we can't vote him in here.


why?

Because he is black.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ziggysego on September 22, 2009, 01:50:04 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: anportmorforjfc on September 22, 2009, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:27:42 PM
I think Obama is fantastic. Pity we can't vote him in here.


why?

Because he is black.

Thought he was half and half.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on September 22, 2009, 01:50:04 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: anportmorforjfc on September 22, 2009, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:27:42 PM
I think Obama is fantastic. Pity we can't vote him in here.


why?

Because he is black.

Thought he was half and half.

Like a curry half and half?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ziggysego on September 22, 2009, 01:53:19 PM
Don't know, don't eat curry
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: anportmorforjfc on September 22, 2009, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: anportmorforjfc on September 22, 2009, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:27:42 PM
I think Obama is fantastic. Pity we can't vote him in here.


why?

Because he is black.



Great reason

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: botman on September 22, 2009, 02:00:48 PM
Quote from: anportmorforjfc on September 22, 2009, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: anportmorforjfc on September 22, 2009, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: botman on September 22, 2009, 01:27:42 PM
I think Obama is fantastic. Pity we can't vote him in here.


why?

Because he is black.



Great reason

Thanks. I put a lot of thought into it.

Ziggy you should try it you might like it. Curry half chips half rice a real cure. Like Obama he is curing the world a little bit each day. God I think he is fantastic. :)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 02:30:03 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 22, 2009, 10:18:59 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 05:00:18 AM
Now I understand that to a large extent this is very true and lends itself well to the agenda being pushed here
but I wonder was she as beaten up over it in '05/'06 when she was drawing in a 300+K salary
( tripled 2 months after hubby got him self elected to the senate ) while serving on the board of the University of Chicago medical center in a
position that didn't exist before she got there and has not been filled since she left in '07 ::) True Chicago style Cronyism or what?
they even payed her a salary of 67k for the year after she left, wonder how she factored in the down trodden in accepting that ::)

A farrago of nonsense

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/michelle-obamas-salary/

Is this link supposed to make me look bad or something....Thanks for posting it! I hope the rest of you do take the time to read it
as it does actually go into detail of how self serving and hypocritical they are... no mention of the busing of poor people out of any of ye though  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whiskeysteve on September 22, 2009, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 02:30:03 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 22, 2009, 10:18:59 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 05:00:18 AM
Now I understand that to a large extent this is very true and lends itself well to the agenda being pushed here
but I wonder was she as beaten up over it in '05/'06 when she was drawing in a 300+K salary
( tripled 2 months after hubby got him self elected to the senate ) while serving on the board of the University of Chicago medical center in a
position that didn't exist before she got there and has not been filled since she left in '07 ::) True Chicago style Cronyism or what?
they even payed her a salary of 67k for the year after she left, wonder how she factored in the down trodden in accepting that ::)

A farrago of nonsense

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/michelle-obamas-salary/

Is this link supposed to make me look bad or something....Thanks for posting it! I hope the rest of you do take the time to read it
as it does actually go into detail of how self serving and hypocritical they are... no mention of the busing of poor people out of any of ye though  ::)

and politicians on big salaries before and after their white house administrations is remarkable how? The powers that be in the states are nearly always filthy rich.

Somehow, i dont think you would have been on here lambasting cindy mccain for earning 6million dollars in 2006 had her hubby got the white house.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24796185/

I think I could stomach a princeton and harvard law school graduate earning 300+K, and in a position where she is looking after a hospital.

Lets not forget the sources of the fortunes of the notorious 'Tycoons Club' of the previous administration. The Obamas are positively squeaky clean compared to some of that shower of murderously greedy dangermen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2009, 03:17:47 PM
"Play the ball not the (wo)man" i like that saying too

PHP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 22, 2009, 10:49:11 PM
Quoteno mention of the busing of poor people out of any of ye though

to which poor people are you referring?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 11:11:47 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 22, 2009, 10:49:11 PM
Quoteno mention of the busing of poor people out of any of ye though

to which poor people are you referring?

These poor people...you know, the ones that she was tearing up over on Friday ::)!

From the Chicago Sun-Times, published in 2008:

    Chicago Sun-Times: U. of C. shunning poor patients?
    HOSPITAL DISPUTE | Obama's wife, 3 aides tied to plan to free up space
    By Tim Novak and Chris Fusco
    August 23, 2008

    Sen. Barack Obama's wife and three close advisers have been involved with a program at the University of Chicago Medical Center that steers patients who don't have private insurance — primarily poor, black people — to other health care facilities.

    Michelle Obama — currently on unpaid leave from her $317,000-a-year job as a vice president of the prestigious hospital — helped create the program, which aims to find neighborhood doctors for low-income people who were flooding the emergency room for basic treatment. Hospital officials say such patients hinder their ability to focus on more critically ill patients in need of specialized care, such as cancer treatment and organ transplants.

    Obama's top political strategist, David Axelrod, co-owns the firm, ASK Public Strategies, that was hired by the hospital last year to sell the program — called the Urban Health Initiative — to the community as a better alternative for poor patients. Obama's wife and Valerie Jarrett, an Obama friend and adviser who chairs the medical center's board, backed the Axelrod firm's hiring, hospital officials said.

    Another Obama adviser and close friend, Dr. Eric Whitaker, took over the Urban Health Initiative when he was hired at U. of C. in October 2007. Whitaker previously had been director of the Illinois Department of Public Health. Obama has said he recommended Whitaker for the state job, giving his name to Tony Rezko, who helped Gov. Blagojevich assemble his Cabinet. Rezko, a former fund-raiser for Obama and Blagojevich, was convicted in June on federal corruption charges tied to state deals.

    Medical center officials and Obama's presidential campaign staff say the Urban Health Initiative — along with a three-year-old companion program called the South Side Health Collaborative — will dramatically improve health care for thousands of South Side residents. They say that, rather than having to wait hours at U. of C.'s emergency room, those patients get seen sooner and at less expense at neighborhood clinics and other hospitals. U. of C. even offers them a ride on a shuttle bus to other centers and sometimes provides the doctors at those facilities.

    "Senator Obama sees community health centers as a vital part of efforts to invest in prevention and reduce costs," said Ben LaBolt, an Obama spokesman.

    But the Urban Health Initiative has critics, including South Side residents and medical professionals.

    "I've heard complaints from a handful of constituents, but I've also had calls from people in the health care profession complaining," said Ald. Toni Preckwinkle, whose 4th Ward is just north of the hospital. "The medical professionals who have come to me are accusing the university of dumping patients on its neighboring institutions. ... Whether it's being implemented in the way that's in the best interest of the patient, I can't tell you."

    Sen. John McCain, Obama's Republican opponent, criticized the Democratic presidential hopeful Friday for having pledged on the campaign trail to expand health care for Americans at the same time his top political strategist "was running a campaign to cut coverage for the poor."

    Axelrod, whose firm stopped working on the project in October, responded that he was concerned that presidential politics was distorting the university's efforts to improve health care for poor people and to lower costs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2009, 11:50:03 PM
Finding neighbourhood doctors to care for those without insurance at a lower cost instead of having them wait hours and hours in casualty at a major hospital. Not to get into a long drawn out debate, but this is sinister because...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 22, 2009, 11:56:35 PM
The Chicago Sun-Times is owned by Rupert Murdoch.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2009, 12:11:13 AM
I've waited for treatment in an emergency room in NYC for more than twelves hours each time on two different occasions within the past two years. Speaking for myself, had there been a minibus to run me a few minutes over to another doctor or clinic I gladly would have taken it, especially if it was cheaper and I wasn't going to be treated by exhausted residents or interns.

Besides, hasn't one of the complaints about the US medical system, across the political board, been the sheer number of people who go to casualty for trivial or non-emergency ailments that should be taken care of by a GP?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 01:43:03 AM
Well besides the fact that it's a "not for profit" Medical center that enjoys the frills and sparkles not to mention the federal, state and city grants that goes with such a title...owing to this they are mandated and have a duty to take care of the less fortunate amongst us, not sure how anyone could look at this and not admit and see it for what it is...but hey don't take my word for it!
http://www.acep.org/pressroom.aspx?id=44294
QuoteI've waited for treatment in an emergency room in NYC for more than twelves hours each time on two different occasions within the past two years.

Make an appointment like the rest of us..that way you wouldn't have to stand in line with the Illegals :P
QuoteBesides, hasn't one of the complaints about the US medical system, across the political board, been the sheer number of people who go to casualty for trivial or non-emergency ailments that should be taken care of by a GP?
Yes it has..so why aren't we deporting the supposed 17 million illegals to free up the ER's....oh that's right cause they vote Democrat ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2009, 02:18:21 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 01:43:03 AM
Well besides the fact that it's a "not for profit" Medical center that enjoys the frills and sparkles not to mention the federal, state and city grants that goes with such a title...owing to this they are mandated and have a duty to take care of the less fortunate amongst us, not sure how anyone could look at this and not admit and see it for what it is...but hey don't take my word for it!
http://www.acep.org/pressroom.aspx?id=44294

That is pretty damning. :(

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 01:43:03 AM
QuoteI've waited for treatment in an emergency room in NYC for more than twelves hours each time on two different occasions within the past two years.

Make an appointment like the rest of us..that way you wouldn't have to stand in line with the Illegals :P

I'm here five years (insured for two) and haven't got around to finding a GP yet! On the to do list! Have medical facilities at work now though, so I should be all right except for emergencies.

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 01:43:03 AM
QuoteBesides, hasn't one of the complaints about the US medical system, across the political board, been the sheer number of people who go to casualty for trivial or non-emergency ailments that should be taken care of by a GP?
Yes it has..so why aren't we deporting the supposed 17 million illegals to free up the ER's....oh that's right cause they vote Democrat ::)

As if the Republicans want to get into the actual ordeal of trying to deport 17 million people, including all that cheap labour! It is a nice cause to rally the "values" wing of the party though, even if the rhetoric does help Hispanics into the Democratic fold.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 05:07:33 AM
QuoteAs if the Republicans want to get into the actual ordeal of trying to deport 17 million people, including all that cheap labour! It is a nice cause to rally the "values" wing of the party though, even if the rhetoric does help Hispanics into the Democratic fold.

Exactly, I completely agree and that's why I'm going to continue to beat this drum til we can all agree... that even though most here
fell for and believed the hype this time last year that Obama could walk on water....he can't and is no fecking better than all that came before him :'(
Transparency and change me hole!
Quote
That is pretty damning. :(
I hope then you'll understand my disdain for the crocodile tears on display...like she gives a fcuk >:(
And we're supposed to trust them with leading an overhaul of our health care system.... for the poor ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 23, 2009, 08:15:09 AM
what is their reason for overhauling the healthcare system?

Who are these people that thought Obama could walk on water?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 23, 2009, 09:24:15 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 22, 2009, 02:30:03 PM
Is this link supposed to make me look bad or something....Thanks for posting it! I hope the rest of you do take the time to read it
as it does actually go into detail of how self serving and hypocritical they are... no mention of the busing of poor people out of any of ye though  ::)

It does nothing of the sort. She got the job long before Barack Obama was anybody, she worked the job full-time, amd the 67k is explained as is the fact that the job hasn't been filled. I suppose if you come to the story with the point of view that everything the Obamas have ever achieved is down to cronyisim then you'll see what you want to see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 04:50:22 PM
QuoteShe got the job long before Barack Obama was anybody,
Really and just how far back in your opinion would we have to go back to find Obama a nobody ???
Are you familiar with the name Valerie Jarrett? the then protegee and deputy chief of staff of the now very corrupt Mayor of Chicago
Richard Daley :o
Back in 1991 Jarrett tried to get Michelle to leave her position at a prominent law firm to come into the political scene
but in her own words, she rejected the offer until Jarrett would meet with her then Fiance Barrack Obama for a 2 hour grilling with the main
point being and I quote " My Fiance wants to know who is going to be looking out for me and making sure that I thrive"
He certainly wasn't a nobody to take on Chicago's elite as far back as '91!
Quoteamd the 67k is explained as is the fact that the job hasn't been filled
Does the fact that the position didn't exist before she got there and hasn't been filled since she left not at least raise an eye brow with you at all
to the fact that it's simply another example of Chicago politics being rotten to the core with cronyism!
Sure look no further than who he's surrounded himself with in the White House....pay back is a bitch as they say for all the favours over the years.
QuoteI suppose if you come to the story with the point of view that everything the Obamas have ever achieved is down to cronyisim then you'll see what you want to see.
The cold hard facts are out there for all to see and read...should we choose to look for them that is ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2009, 10:51:34 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 23, 2009, 08:15:09 AM
what is their reason for overhauling the healthcare system?

Because costs are out of control, there are large numbers of uninsured, it is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the states and because if the insurance companies decide you have a pre-existing condition, you're fucked.

Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 23, 2009, 08:15:09 AM
Who are these people that thought Obama could walk on water?

Not sure, but "educating" them is allowing TO to manage his obsession in a benign way, so what's the harm?! :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2009, 10:57:01 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 05:07:33 AM
QuoteAs if the Republicans want to get into the actual ordeal of trying to deport 17 million people, including all that cheap labour! It is a nice cause to rally the "values" wing of the party though, even if the rhetoric does help Hispanics into the Democratic fold.

Exactly, I completely agree and that's why I'm going to continue to beat this drum til we can all agree... that even though most here
fell for and believed the hype this time last year that Obama could walk on water....he can't and is no fecking better than all that came before him :'(
Transparency and change me hole!

Are you saying you agree with me that the Republicans cynically use the immigration issue as a wedge issue, talking plenty but doing little or nothing? :o

Obama is a politician, and a pretty ruthless one at that. Anyone who gets to his position is. That is partly why I wouldn't be so quick to write him off as you are.

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 05:07:33 AM
Quote
That is pretty damning. :(
I hope then you'll understand my disdain for the crocodile tears on display...like she gives a fcuk >:(
And we're supposed to trust them with leading an overhaul of our health care system.... for the poor ::)

Well, I would like to hear what she has to say on the hospital issue, but she is pretty irrelevant to whatever healthcare legislation will eventually pass. The likes of Olympia Snowe and Ben Nelson hold the power there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 11:14:19 PM
Quote
Because costs are out of control,
This is true but why can't Obama, Axlerod and co answer the simple question as to why they can't open it up
so we can purchase medical insurance across State lines, without competition monopolies are created which in
turn trickles down to us in astronomical costs..that and placing a cap on frivolous malpractice suits would have been a good
place to start!
I don't know but it seems to me that he's taking a hatchet to the whole thing where a scalpel would do the trick ;)
QuoteNot sure, but "educating" them is allowing TO to manage his obsession in a benign way, so what's the harm?!
It's just that;
"I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance."   
   - Thomas carlyle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2009, 11:28:20 PM
Quote
Are you saying you agree with me that the Republicans cynically use the immigration issue as a wedge issue, talking plenty but doing little or nothing? :o
Pretty much due to little more than the fact that the borders were never locked down after 9/11!
QuoteObama is a politician, and a pretty ruthless one at that.
Surely not, sure didn't he run on being the great unifier in bringing to Washington a new brand of post partisan and post racial politics,
a sea of change, teary eyed fist pumping transparency and hope that we can all believe in ::)
an administration where by lobbyist's and special interests would have no part to play in his policy making *cough*
QuoteWell, I would like to hear what she has to say on the hospital issue,
Your joking right...who in hell is going to be allowed to get close enough to ask that one....surely you're aware by now
that there are no chance questions ever put to them..that every last detail is vetted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 25, 2009, 05:37:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqMTD5UFmU&feature=related
From the 1.30 mark onwards :o
Words escape me here.... >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 25, 2009, 02:31:14 PM
people will make up songs about any auld crap and teach it to kids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVgiRIj2GMM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whiskeysteve on September 25, 2009, 03:09:11 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 25, 2009, 02:31:14 PM
people will make up songs about any auld crap and teach it to kids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVgiRIj2GMM

for the love of god delete that. my ears are bleeding
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 25, 2009, 06:02:12 PM
Evidently not the only thing that's bleeding  ;D

Good call there HB...the similarities are definitely striking no doubt  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whiskeysteve on September 25, 2009, 07:17:55 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 25, 2009, 06:02:12 PM
Evidently not the only thing that's bleeding  ;D

What else is bleeding apart from Whiskey's ears?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 04:34:51 AM
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2009/09/26/10170/

Where's the outcry now for the unethical holding of these men without charge ::)
Surely the wee Libs back there can't be seen to be toeing Bush's line...under the guise of Obama :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 04:46:27 AM
Have been scouring the news networks to see that Pelosi has come out denigrating
the real riotous behavior at the G20 Summit in Pittsburgh like she did with the people at the
Tea parties....maybe she's gone for the weekend and will lash out first thing Mon morning ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 27, 2009, 05:03:03 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 04:34:51 AM
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2009/09/26/10170/

Where's the outcry now for the unethical holding of these men without charge ::)
Surely the wee Libs back there can't be seen to be toeing Bush's line...under the guise of Obama :o

Do mean the unethical releasing of these men without torture?  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 27, 2009, 05:58:03 AM
if your just going to repost stuff from o'Reilly, Beck and Hanratty why not just ask everyone to watch fox instead of cont. this thread,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 04:57:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2009, 05:03:03 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 04:34:51 AM
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2009/09/26/10170/

Where's the outcry now for the unethical holding of these men without charge ::)
Surely the wee Libs back there can't be seen to be toeing Bush's line...under the guise of Obama :o

Do mean the unethical releasing of these men without torture?  ::)

Eh...No, the unethical detaining of these innocent men in Ireland  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 05:11:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 27, 2009, 05:58:03 AM
if your just going to repost stuff from o'Reilly, Beck and Hanratty why not just ask everyone to watch fox instead of cont. this thread,
Simply because most here only read and listen to what's fed them....see they're no different there to what I have for neighbours,
I was conferring with my next door neighbour on Fri evening and was shocked to hear (actually not really) that she thought there was one tape of
ACORN's transgressions, never heard of Van Jones, didn't know anything about the John Adams project and thinks overall that the country is
very happy so far with Obama as president. now this is a Berkeley educated Attorney that works for the state and could argue a black crow white
but was stepping on her tail left and right as she back peddled down off my porch with no answers due to being simply uninformed!
Though I do recall her muttering something about it being Bush's fault as she turned the corner :D
And anyway, I would highly recommend fox News to get some the boys here up to speed..Fair and balanced being rated #1 for 8 years now and counting ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 27, 2009, 06:11:18 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 04:57:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2009, 05:03:03 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 04:34:51 AM
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2009/09/26/10170/

Where's the outcry now for the unethical holding of these men without charge ::)
Surely the wee Libs back there can't be seen to be toeing Bush's line...under the guise of Obama :o

Do mean the unethical releasing of these men without torture?  ::)

Eh...No, the unethical detaining of these innocent men in Ireland  :o

Eh...they won't be detained in Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 06:22:50 PM
Ah Right...... :-\  http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/07/two-gitmo-detainees-headed-to-ireland.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2009, 06:30:55 PM
So what exactly will be the status of these detainees in Ireland?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 27, 2009, 06:53:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2009, 06:30:55 PM
So what exactly will be the status of these detainees in Ireland?

Refugees, probably being granted asylum as I'd say they can't return to wherever they were kidnapped from, but still free men.

I'm no lawyer but what basis would the state have for detaining them? Dubya asked us to?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 06:55:47 PM
QuoteEh...they won't be detained in Ireland.
Could you explain this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 07:01:32 PM
Quote
Refugees, probably being granted asylum as I'd say they can't return to wherever they were kidnapped from, but still free men.
???
Quote
I'm no lawyer but what basis would the state have for detaining them? Dubya asked us to?
Wha?  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 27, 2009, 07:02:16 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0927/guantanamo.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 27, 2009, 07:03:52 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 06:55:47 PM
QuoteEh...they won't be detained in Ireland.
Could you explain this?

While they are still in US custody they will be considered detainees. I'd imagine their status will change immediately on becoming the responsibility of the Irish state.

At a guess I'd expect they will be fast tracked for the granting of asylum in Ireland.

Edit: Just saw PHP's link. That answers it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 07:08:54 PM
No trial or evaluation of some kind, simply free men....Amazing!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 27, 2009, 07:25:53 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 07:08:54 PM
No trial or evaluation of some kind, simply free men....Amazing!

Now you want a trial? After detaining them for years at Guantanamo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2009, 07:28:44 PM
Surely if there was evidence against them, they would have been tried and not released to Ireland?

Or are you just twisting for another angle to beat Obama with?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 07:40:12 PM
QuoteNow you want a trial? After detaining them for years at Guantanamo.
When did I personally never want a trial? and I haven't detained anybody anywhere if my memory serves me :-*
Quote
Or are you just twisting for another angle to beat Obama with?
Lets be honest here...he's doing a good enough job of it on his own 8)
And then there this,
"I'm no lawyer but what basis would the state have for detaining them? Dubya asked us to?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 27, 2009, 08:09:50 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 04:34:51 AM
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2009/09/26/10170/

Where's the outcry now for the unethical holding of these men without charge ::)
Surely the wee Libs back there can't be seen to be toeing Bush's line...under the guise of Obama :o

This was your position. You attacked the 'wee Libs back there' on the false assumption that Ireland would behave illegally just as the Bush administration had done. You then tried to use this as a stick to beat Obama.

Of course what you don't understand is that Obama is releasing these men to freedom. Imagine that, being released by the self proclaimed land of the free, to...eh...freedom.

No doubt the lunatics think that Obama releasing illegally detained men is somehow an attack on freedom. 

The hypocrisy here is incredible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2009, 08:11:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 07:40:12 PM
Quote
Or are you just twisting for another angle to beat Obama with?
Lets be honest here...he's doing a good enough job of it on his own 8)

Sorry, but I don't see any partisan angle here. If these guys need to be released and can't go home, how is he wrong to get Ireland to accept them? You didn't bring up this subject to undermine your thesis that he and the Democrats are the embodiment of evil, so what exactly is this topic supposed to be proving?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 11:40:28 PM
Quote
The hypocrisy here is incredible.

I know  ::)...it's pretty bad here in the states as well!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 27, 2009, 11:51:23 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 07:40:12 PM
QuoteNow you want a trial? After detaining them for years at Guantanamo.
When did I personally never want a trial? and I haven't detained anybody anywhere if my memory serves me :-*
Quote
Or are you just twisting for another angle to beat Obama with?
Lets be honest here...he's doing a good enough job of it on his own 8)
And then there this,
"I'm no lawyer but what basis would the state have for detaining them? Dubya asked us to?"

You brought this subject up.

You assumed that the men would be 'detained' in Ireland.

I am going to assume you are listening to some spectacular shite over there which put that into your head but it is still funny reading the last page or two.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 12:03:36 AM
I think it's astonishing that they are to be shipped to Ireland to rebuild their lives without
some kind of public scrutiny or evaluation from the Irish Government....maybe even get put to a vote of the people before hand.
But then to be seen in the eyes of the world to be going against anything remotely tied to
W has to be a good thing ::) regardless of the outcome!
Granted I don't know they're guilty but tell me how you boy's are so sure they're not :-\
and won't return to terrorism after released!
Quotebut it is still funny reading the last page or two.
Any funnier than the 10 pages that went before it or most all of the 65 pages on Hurls thread
when ye had the wellies on ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 12:05:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2009, 08:11:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 07:40:12 PM
Quote
Or are you just twisting for another angle to beat Obama with?
Lets be honest here...he's doing a good enough job of it on his own 8)

Sorry, but I don't see any partisan angle here. If these guys need to be released and can't go home, how is he wrong to get Ireland to accept them? You didn't bring up this subject to undermine your thesis that he and the Democrats are the embodiment of evil, so what exactly is this topic supposed to be proving?

Point being...his numbers in the poll's show he's doing enough harm himself to his administration every time he opens his mouth
without help from any "right wing Racist's"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2009, 04:04:49 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 12:05:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2009, 08:11:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 07:40:12 PM
Quote
Or are you just twisting for another angle to beat Obama with?
Lets be honest here...he's doing a good enough job of it on his own 8)

Sorry, but I don't see any partisan angle here. If these guys need to be released and can't go home, how is he wrong to get Ireland to accept them? You didn't bring up this subject to undermine your thesis that he and the Democrats are the embodiment of evil, so what exactly is this topic supposed to be proving?

Point being...his numbers in the poll's show he's doing enough harm himself to his administration every time he opens his mouth
without help from any "right wing Racist's"

That being your opinion (polls show his approval has stabilized over the past month), what has that got to do with the two detainees. If you think he is wrong to release them and that doing so is depressing his numbers, then say so. I doubt if most Americans even know that the two boys are heading for Ireland.

His current approval, according to Gallup, is 52%. Only Clinton was lower at this point in past 60 years, while Reagan had the exact same approval rating. Both were re-elected with ease. Bush senior had 70% at this time and lost. Dubya had 76% post 9-11 and came close to losing to Kerry. Jimmy Carter had 57% and is now generally regarded as the worst post-war president!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2009, 04:08:01 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 12:03:36 AM
I think it's astonishing that they are to be shipped to Ireland to rebuild their lives without
some kind of public scrutiny or evaluation from the Irish Government....maybe even get put to a vote of the people before hand.
But then to be seen in the eyes of the world to be going against anything remotely tied to
W has to be a good thing ::) regardless of the outcome!
Granted I don't know they're guilty but tell me how you boy's are so sure they're not :-\
and won't return to terrorism after released!


"Return to terrorism"? Am I missing something? I thought they were being released because there was no evidence they were ever involved? And one would assume (and expect) that the Irish and US authorities have done the necessary analysis here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 04:43:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2009, 04:04:49 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 12:05:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2009, 08:11:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2009, 07:40:12 PM
Quote
Or are you just twisting for another angle to beat Obama with?
Lets be honest here...he's doing a good enough job of it on his own 8)

Sorry, but I don't see any partisan angle here. If these guys need to be released and can't go home, how is he wrong to get Ireland to accept them? You didn't bring up this subject to undermine your thesis that he and the Democrats are the embodiment of evil, so what exactly is this topic supposed to be proving?

Point being...his numbers in the poll's show he's doing enough harm himself to his administration every time he opens his mouth
without help from any "right wing Racist's"

That being your opinion (polls show his approval has stabilized over the past month), what has that got to do with the two detainees. If you think he is wrong to release them and that doing so is depressing his numbers, then say so. I doubt if most Americans even know that the two boys are heading for Ireland.

His current approval, according to Gallup, is 52%. Only Clinton was lower at this point in past 60 years, while Reagan had the exact same approval rating. Both were re-elected with ease. Bush senior had 70% at this time and lost. Dubya had 76% post 9-11 and came close to losing to Kerry. Jimmy Carter had 57% and is now generally regarded as the worst post-war president!

Those aren't quite the figures I have but OK.... you and I both know that the media blitz he ran last Sunday
to explain himself and to get his push for health care back on track fell flat and if stabilization is what you deem
successful then OK..he's doing great! Have you checked his numbers by state by the way... your own state of NY makes
interesting reading ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 04:52:01 AM
Quote
"Return to terrorism"? Am I missing something?

Evidently yes;
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2009/01/13/some-freed-terrorism-detainees-return-to-the-fight.html
So I'll ask this again.... ::)( I know shocking isn't it) how do either of you "know"  that they
are or aren't connected to terrorism???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AFS on September 28, 2009, 05:50:05 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 04:52:01 AM
Quote
"Return to terrorism"? Am I missing something?

Evidently yes;
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2009/01/13/some-freed-terrorism-detainees-return-to-the-fight.html
So I'll ask this again.... ::)( I know shocking isn't it) how do either of you "know"  that they
are or aren't connected to terrorism???

11%, and only about 3% actually confirmed, according to 'Pentagon intelligence', the merits of which is debatable given the recent track record.

Do you really support locking up nine innocent men for the sake of catching one that may be guilty?

I thought this quote in that link was particularly hilarious:

"Just that we have, you know, intelligence, in some cases evidence, to prove that they have indeed gone on to return to violence, and that's a real concern."

Suppose we'll have to, you know, take your word for it then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 06:38:51 AM
Yes and even with that excellent piece of investigative journalism.... How do you "know"
that these two in particular are innocent men 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AFS on September 28, 2009, 07:07:27 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 06:38:51 AM
Yes and even with that excellent piece of investigative journalism.... How do you "know"
that these two in particular are innocent men 8)

Well if America's finest couldn't get anything to stick after eight years of waterboarding and God knows what else, then I happy enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 28, 2009, 08:42:01 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 06:38:51 AM
Yes and even with that excellent piece of investigative journalism.... How do you "know"
that these two in particular are innocent men 8)

Because in civilized countries they are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore they are legally innocent. On top of that they haven't even been charged with anything.

This should all be investigated by a war crimes tribunal but the USA only uses them on their enemies. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 11:01:52 PM
QuoteBecause in civilized countries they are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore they are legally innocent. On top of that they haven't even been charged with anything.
Yes and neither had the ones that returned to fight....the fact that they hadn't been charged meant they were innocent too I suppose ::)

By the way...still no word out of the Top Dems today about the despicable
riotous scenes in Pittsburgh on Fri I see...Shocker I know, :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AFS on September 28, 2009, 11:33:30 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 11:01:52 PM
QuoteBecause in civilized countries they are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore they are legally innocent. On top of that they haven't even been charged with anything.
Yes and neither had the ones that returned to fight....the fact that they hadn't been charged meant they were innocent too I suppose ::)

By the way...still no word out of the Top Dems today about the despicable
riotous scenes in Pittsburgh on Fri I see...Shocker I know, :o

How do you know they were returning to the fight? Evidently, there was no indication that they were involved in terrorism in the first place, or they would've been put on trial. So how do you know they weren't innocent men, radicalised by half a dozen years of torture and sadism?

Its fallacious to assume that those who become involved in terrorism after their release from Guantanamo, were involved before their detention.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 12:32:46 AM
QuoteHow do you know they were returning to the fight?
Where exactly did I say they were returning to fight?
QuoteSo how do you know they weren't innocent men
I don't!.....How do you know they are? for the 4th time
QuoteSo how do you know they weren't innocent men, radicalised by half a dozen years of torture and sadism?
:D Let me see if I have this right...it's ok if they go back to Yemen as terrorists as long as it's only because they were radicalized
by torture and sadism.... I have it now ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AFS on September 29, 2009, 01:10:47 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 12:32:46 AM
Where exactly did I say they were returning to fight?

This was obviously what you implied in the following post.

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 11:01:52 PM
Yes and neither had the ones that returned to fight....the fact that they hadn't been charged meant they were innocent too I suppose ::)

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 12:32:46 AM
So how do you know they weren't innocent men
QuoteI don't!.....How do you know they are? for the 4th time

In the real world, when someone is not charged with any crime they are considered innocent. Does US intelligence monitor your every movement? If not, they can't possibly be 100% that you are not a terrorist. Maybe you should be kept in prison, and tortured, indefinitely. You know, just in case.

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 12:32:46 AM
QuoteSo how do you know they weren't innocent men, radicalised by half a dozen years of torture and sadism?
:D Let me see if I have this right...it's ok if they go back to Yemen as terrorists as long as it's only because they were radicalized by torture and sadism.... I have it now ::)

Reverting to type I see. Creating straw men and putting words in people's mouths. Pathetic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2009, 01:53:43 AM
Sorry TO, but the onus is on the US to make the charges stick. You can't just pick people up, throw them in prison and forget about them. I would have thought that someone from your northern background would be averse to the state locking people up without charges or trial?

And spare us the crocodile tears about the Pittsburgh riots (although it was interesting to compare the tone of Fox News' coverage of it with their reverent coverage of the townhalls and tea bag protests). Your own side is every bit as hypocritical, but no one else is really arsed enough to whinge about and dig up every little example.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 01:58:16 AM
Quote
This was obviously what you implied in the following post.

Quote from: Tyrones own on Today at 03:01:52 PM

    Yes and neither had the ones that returned to fight....the fact that they hadn't been charged meant they were innocent too I suppose

Eh .... no it was yet another one of them question thingys.... you know those things that you boys will dodge around
from morning til night rather than answer :-X
QuoteIn the real world, when someone is not charged with any crime they are considered innocent. Does US intelligence monitor your every movement? If not, they can't possibly be 100% that you are not a terrorist. Maybe you should be kept in prison, and tortured, indefinitely. You know, just in case.
Tell me is this simply innocence, ignorance, naivety or a combination of all three...and yes this is another one of those darn thingys for you to dodge
Quote
Reverting to type I see. Creating straw men and putting words in people's mouths. Pathetic.
Who are you trying to fool, sure ye boy's have made a living off dodging questions,
being out and out hypocrites with your double standards and putting words in my mouth with assumptions for years now :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 02:12:59 PM
QuoteSorry TO, but the onus is on the US to make the charges stick. You can't just pick people up, throw them in prison and forget about them. I would have thought that someone from your northern background would be averse to the state locking people up without charges or trial?
Pray tell your not equating this with Internment in the North of Ireland  :o...somehow i doubt very much that Bush's foot soldiers burst through these two lad's
back doors at 3 in the morning and took them out of their beds as they innocently slept knowing full well they were innocent.. I know them and I'm sure there are a lot of people on this board that know men that done time in the kesh while all a sundry including the RUC knew that most of them played Feck all part in the troubles >:(
There were a lot of tactics in place as to the rooting out of these people, from being caught red handed running guns and explosives, interrogation tactics and yes if that meant torture to get names to bribing elders but then this kind of thinking doesn't lend itself to the liberal argument and unrelenting drive to berate Bush
Funny how it's always the Mexicans here that feel the need to bring the troubles and in this case something that happened 40 years ago in to modern day
debates as if it gives them some kind of leg up... News flash, it makes ye look like fools and will the next time you play it as well
Quote
And spare us the crocodile tears about the Pittsburgh riots (although it was interesting to compare the tone of Fox News' coverage of it with their reverent coverage of the townhalls and tea bag protests)
Crocodile tears my hole...I couldn't give a damn if the burned thon Kip to the ground.... simply highlighting yet another typical non report from the Obama media machine.
Other than a heavily edited post from Dixie portraying the whole shoot as a bunch of goons please post the video of where there was tear gas,
stones and bottles thrown at police and 15+ arrests made during the tea party in Washington ::)
I remember it well that it was patriotic to voice displeasure at head office when Bush was there
but somehow now it's a right wing conspiracy and racism when any one dare speaks out against Obama  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 08:01:03 PM
I wonder whose coffers he's intent on filling in his corrupt Chicago regime
with his personal push to get the Olympics to Chicago...it surely can't be for the good
of the city itself in the long term, but then maybe it's a short term answer to
his sky rocketing unemployment numbers :-[

Jaysus I remember a time when Poor old W was berated by the left for taking his
auld bike out around the park for an hours exercise most days saying that's it's a disgrace to
be seen out wasting time when there are such pressing issues to contend with...
Now stay with me here.... It's OK for Obama to Fly air force one to Europe at tax payers expense to put forward a case for hosting the Olympics whilst there is all this turmoil going on both at home and around the world ::) Gross double standards anyone :o

P.S Still no word from Pelosi on the riots that would remove any fears of what could be seen as blatant double standards in what gets reported and what doesn't but I'm expecting it any day now and will post it right away ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 29, 2009, 10:48:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2009, 11:01:52 PM
QuoteBecause in civilized countries they are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore they are legally innocent. On top of that they haven't even been charged with anything.
Yes and neither had the ones that returned to fight....the fact that they hadn't been charged meant they were innocent too I suppose ::)

If you think that is a reasonable comment then you won't understand why most of the Bush administration will choose their holidays very carefully. Most countries are legally obliged to arrest war criminals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 10:58:31 PM
Quote
If you think that is a reasonable comment then you won't understand why most of the Bush administration will choose their holidays very carefully. Most countries are legally obliged to arrest war criminals.
It wasn't a comment..it was another one of those question thingy's that seems to scare ye boys off
But back to your point..I'd say they're not too bothered sure Bill Clinton seems to be able to go where he likes when he likes :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 29, 2009, 11:02:45 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 10:58:31 PM
Quote
If you think that is a reasonable comment then you won't understand why most of the Bush administration will choose their holidays very carefully. Most countries are legally obliged to arrest war criminals.
It wasn't a comment..it was another one of those question thingy's that seems to scare ye boys off
But back to your point..I'd say they're not too bothered sure Bill Clinton seems to be able to go where he likes when he likes :-\

A question usually has a question mark. Back to the point you brought up the detainees. Stick to the detainees, Clinton had nothing to do with them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 11:05:11 PM
No but he had a lot to do with war crimes which you brought up!
and anyway..do try to keep up, we're on page 14 now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 29, 2009, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 11:05:11 PM
No but he had a lot to do with war crimes which you brought up!
and anyway..do try to keep up, we're on page 14 now

Yes you fairly rushed away from page 12.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 30, 2009, 12:16:07 AM
Quote from: muppet on September 29, 2009, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 11:05:11 PM
No but he had a lot to do with war crimes which you brought up!
and anyway..do try to keep up, we're on page 14 now

Yes you fairly rushed away from page 12.
I did?  :D even if that were to be true what could i say, your intellectual brilliance in answering tough questions under pressure... oops :-X is hard to keep up with...not :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2009, 12:45:08 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 02:12:59 PM
QuoteSorry TO, but the onus is on the US to make the charges stick. You can't just pick people up, throw them in prison and forget about them. I would have thought that someone from your northern background would be averse to the state locking people up without charges or trial?
Pray tell your not equating this with Internment in the North of Ireland  :o...somehow i doubt very much that Bush's foot soldiers burst through these two lad's
back doors at 3 in the morning and took them out of their beds as they innocently slept knowing full well they were innocent.. I know them and I'm sure there are a lot of people on this board that know men that done time in the kesh while all a sundry including the RUC knew that most of them played Feck all part in the troubles >:(
There were a lot of tactics in place as to the rooting out of these people, from being caught red handed running guns and explosives, interrogation tactics and yes if that meant torture to get names to bribing elders but then this kind of thinking doesn't lend itself to the liberal argument and unrelenting drive to berate Bush
Funny how it's always the Mexicans here that feel the need to bring the troubles and in this case something that happened 40 years ago in to modern day
debates as if it gives them some kind of leg up... News flash, it makes ye look like fools and will the next time you play it as well

I see... picking up and whisking people away to prison, whether they've committed crimes or not, whether you'll be able to make a case against them or not, is fine and dandy when done by the Americans, but not by the Brits. Or is it the case that it was your friends and neighbours back then, but just some muslims now? And what has the fact that it happened in the 70s got to do with anything? And if torture is so commendable, why the ludicrous campaign by the right to tell us that waterboarding isn't torture? Cheney and his daughter are still at it!

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 02:12:59 PM
Quote
And spare us the crocodile tears about the Pittsburgh riots (although it was interesting to compare the tone of Fox News' coverage of it with their reverent coverage of the townhalls and tea bag protests)
Crocodile tears my hole...I couldn't give a damn if the burned thon Kip to the ground.... simply highlighting yet another typical non report from the Obama media machine.
Other than a heavily edited post from Dixie portraying the whole shoot as a bunch of goons please post the video of where there was tear gas,
stones and bottles thrown at police and 15+ arrests made during the tea party in Washington ::)
I remember it well that it was patriotic to voice displeasure at head office when Bush was there
but somehow now it's a right wing conspiracy and racism when any one dare speaks out against Obama  :D

What the f**k has condemning or not condemning a bunch of anarchists rioting got to do with Obama? He was there, leading the G20 meeting, was he not? Were they not protesting him? Or was he out there, fomenting things on the street?

And it was your side that was foaming at the mouth and screaming "unamerican" and "unpatriotic" and "treason" when people were out protesting in 02 and 03. And I don't remember anyone trying to play down the Bush Lied/People Died stuff back then, so how can you complain that they are reporting on all the Obama is Hitler/Stalin/Kenyan/terrorist/Bachman's FEMA reeducation camps and all the rest of the nonsense?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2009, 12:54:46 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 08:01:03 PM
I wonder whose coffers he's intent on filling in his corrupt Chicago regime
with his personal push to get the Olympics to Chicago...it surely can't be for the good
of the city itself in the long term, but then maybe it's a short term answer to
his sky rocketing unemployment numbers :-[

Jaysus I remember a time when Poor old W was berated by the left for taking his
auld bike out around the park for an hours exercise most days saying that's it's a disgrace to
be seen out wasting time when there are such pressing issues to contend with...
Now stay with me here.... It's OK for Obama to Fly air force one to Europe at tax payers expense to put forward a case for hosting the Olympics whilst there is all this turmoil going on both at home and around the world ::) Gross double standards anyone :o

P.S Still no word from Pelosi on the riots that would remove any fears of what could be seen as blatant double standards in what gets reported and what doesn't but I'm expecting it any day now and will post it right away ;)

Bush got criticised by the left for taking the bike out for an hour? That's really true, is it?

And christ, I must have imagined Tony Blair getting involved in the campaign to bring the Olympics to London. Yes, building those hotels and stadiums and public infrastructure and all the rest of it, that will be there for the use of the community afterwards, in addition to all the construction work and the work servicing the games themselves, yes, that's a shitty investment all right. Must be why so few major cities are ever interested in getting the games!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 30, 2009, 03:41:58 AM
QuoteBush got criticised by the left for taking the bike out for an hour? That's really true, is it?

Oh aye, if you could believe it..... you actually sound surprised ???
http://www.noozhawk.com/michelle_malkin/article/1229_michelle_malkin_media_no_longer_exercised_about_presidential_workouts/

QuoteAnd christ, I must have imagined Tony Blair getting involved in the campaign to bring the Olympics to London. Yes, building those hotels and stadiums and public infrastructure and all the rest of it, that will be there for the use of the community afterwards, in addition to all the construction work and the work servicing the games themselves, yes, that's a shitty investment all right. Must be why so few major cities are ever interested in getting the games!

As the saying goes be careful what you wish for... are you at all familiar with what has gone before at some of these host cities
as far as over runs resulting in financial ruin?
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1926505,00.html

And might I add, the last figures I read was that as many as 76% of Chicagoans don't want to host the games... but then they'd be expecting a bit much
for this administration to take public opinion in to account..you know for the people, by the people and all that ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2009, 04:28:12 AM
Two reporters, one quoting Cindy Sheehan = "the left"?   ::)

TO, where you this horrified with the ultra-partisanship earlier this decade when your side was on the up? Bush, the man who became president after losing the popular vote, ruling as if he had won a Reagan or even an Obama-like majority.  The house under Tom Delay as he intentionally forced through partisan legislation strictly along party lines and completely sidelined the Democrats from the process. There wasn't even lipservice paid to getting Democratic input as Delay, Rove and the rest of them arrogantly thought they were building a permanent Republican majority (its less than four years since they were boasting that shite!) I didn't hear much from the right wing then about popular opinion or the rights of the opposition. All they cared about was that they had a 50 + 1 majority and f**k the majority who voted for Gore or Nader or the 49% who voted for John Kerry. Where was "for the people, by the people" then? I'm not saying that the wishes of Chicagoans do not matter, of course they do (although we heard plenty of ridiculing of Clinton and contrasting him with Bush from the right wing about using polls to set policy), but that's what elections and courts are for. And yes, you're going to come back with the Cook County Democratic machine, but at least your man Fitzgerald (who, if you'll remember, was widely vilified by the Republican not too long ago for another investigation) is doing good work of late and will hopefully root them out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 30, 2009, 04:46:04 AM
QuoteTwo reporters, one quoting Cindy Sheehan = "the left"?   ::)
Ah true to form with ye...you asked me to give an example of a point I made and all you can do
is pull one name out of a complete article that perfectly illustrated the point I had initially made.
Heaven forbid you'd at least acknowledge the fact that in this case there was indeed a massive double standard
from the media...you really and truly are hopelessly in the tank for him aren't ye :o simply can't give it up ;D
QuoteI'm not saying that the wishes of Chicagoans do not matter
Of course they don't matter to him... sure the majority of the country don't want his socialized health care bill either
but that's not stopping him is it? ...for the people and by the people and all that..right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2009, 05:11:58 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 30, 2009, 04:46:04 AM
QuoteTwo reporters, one quoting Cindy Sheehan = "the left"?   ::)
Ah true to form with ye...you asked me to give an example of a point I made and all you can do
is pull one name out of a complete article that perfectly illustrated the point I had initially made.
Heaven forbid you'd at least acknowledge the fact that in this case there was indeed a massive double standard
from the media...you really and truly are hopelessly in the tank for him aren't ye :o simply can't give it up ;D

You post an article from Michele Malkin, of all people (she who never makes a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to the left! ::) Even the likes of Laura Ingraham was telling her to get a grip a few months back when she tried to make a campaign out of Rachel Ray [is there a more inoffensive media person in America?] wearing a PLO-type scarf!), which references one opinion piece in the LA Times and another reporter quoting Cindy Sheehan. Is that supposed to represent the left making a big fuss out of Bush exercising? Two articles back then and then another one more recently by totally different writers for different papers/agencies = double standard? Yeah, ok. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AFS on November 09, 2009, 05:17:48 AM
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200911060002
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 10, 2009, 10:16:12 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 08:01:03 PM
I wonder whose coffers he's intent on filling in his corrupt Chicago regime
with his personal push to get the Olympics to Chicago...it surely can't be for the good
of the city itself in the long term, but then maybe it's a short term answer to
his sky rocketing unemployment numbers :-[

Jaysus I remember a time when Poor old W was berated by the left for taking his
auld bike out around the park for an hours exercise most days saying that's it's a disgrace to
be seen out wasting time when there are such pressing issues to contend with...
Now stay with me here.... It's OK for Obama to Fly air force one to Europe at tax payers expense to put forward a case for hosting the Olympics whilst there is all this turmoil going on both at home and around the world ::) Gross double standards anyone :o

P.S Still no word from Pelosi on the riots that would remove any fears of what could be seen as blatant double standards in what gets reported and what doesn't but I'm expecting it any day now and will post it right away ;)

The liberals control the media for the most part over here, Pelosi is a horrible human being and Barak is acting more like a movie star than a president.

I will never understand until the day I die how he managed to win the Nobel prize after being in office for less than two weeks. :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2009, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2009, 10:16:12 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2009, 08:01:03 PM
I wonder whose coffers he's intent on filling in his corrupt Chicago regime
with his personal push to get the Olympics to Chicago...it surely can't be for the good
of the city itself in the long term, but then maybe it's a short term answer to
his sky rocketing unemployment numbers :-[

Jaysus I remember a time when Poor old W was berated by the left for taking his
auld bike out around the park for an hours exercise most days saying that's it's a disgrace to
be seen out wasting time when there are such pressing issues to contend with...
Now stay with me here.... It's OK for Obama to Fly air force one to Europe at tax payers expense to put forward a case for hosting the Olympics whilst there is all this turmoil going on both at home and around the world ::) Gross double standards anyone :o

P.S Still no word from Pelosi on the riots that would remove any fears of what could be seen as blatant double standards in what gets reported and what doesn't but I'm expecting it any day now and will post it right away ;)

The liberals control the media for the most part over here, Pelosi is a horrible human being and Barak is acting more like a movie star than a president.

I will never understand until the day I die how he managed to win the Nobel prize after being in office for less than two weeks. :o

The reat of the world wanted to reward him for not invading someone for a whole 14 days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on January 08, 2010, 02:09:21 PM
How's that Hope, Change and Transparency thing working out girls  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 25, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
Long but interesting thesis on the recent Supreme Court judgement;

Democracy in America Is a Useful Fiction

by Chris Hedges

Corporate forces, long before the Supreme Court's decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, carried out a coup d'état in slow motion. The coup is over. We lost. The ruling is one more judicial effort to streamline mechanisms for corporate control. It exposes the myth of a functioning democracy and the triumph of corporate power. But it does not significantly alter the political landscape. The corporate state is firmly cemented in place.

The fiction of democracy remains useful, not only for corporations, but for our bankrupt liberal class. If the fiction is seriously challenged, liberals will be forced to consider actual resistance, which will be neither pleasant nor easy. As long as a democratic facade exists, liberals can engage in an empty moral posturing that requires little sacrifice or commitment. They can be the self-appointed scolds of the Democratic Party, acting as if they are part of the debate and feel vindicated by their cries of protest.

Much of the outrage expressed about the court's ruling is the outrage of those who prefer this choreographed charade. As long as the charade is played, they do not have to consider how to combat what the political philosopher Sheldon Wolin calls our system of "inverted totalitarianism."

Inverted totalitarianism represents "the political coming of age of corporate power and the political demobilization of the citizenry," Wolin writes in "Democracy Incorporated." Inverted totalitarianism differs from classical forms of totalitarianism, which revolve around a demagogue or charismatic leader, and finds its expression in the anonymity of the corporate state. The corporate forces behind inverted totalitarianism do not, as classical totalitarian movements do, boast of replacing decaying structures with a new, revolutionary structure. They purport to honor electoral politics, freedom and the Constitution. But they so corrupt and manipulate the levers of power as to make democracy impossible.

Inverted totalitarianism is not conceptualized as an ideology or objectified in public policy. It is furthered by "power-holders and citizens who often seem unaware of the deeper consequences of their actions or inactions," Wolin writes. But it is as dangerous as classical forms of totalitarianism. In a system of inverted totalitarianism, as this court ruling illustrates, it is not necessary to rewrite the Constitution, as fascist and communist regimes do. It is enough to exploit legitimate power by means of judicial and legislative interpretation. This exploitation ensures that huge corporate campaign contributions are protected speech under the First Amendment. It ensures that heavily financed and organized lobbying by large corporations is interpreted as an application of the people's right to petition the government. The court again ratified the concept that corporations are persons, except in those cases where the "persons" agree to a "settlement." Those within corporations who commit crimes can avoid going to prison by paying large sums of money to the government while, according to this twisted judicial reasoning, not "admitting any wrongdoing." There is a word for this. It is called corruption.

Corporations have 35,000 lobbyists in Washington and thousands more in state capitals that dole out corporate money to shape and write legislation. They use their political action committees to solicit employees and shareholders for donations to fund pliable candidates. The financial sector, for example, spent more than $5 billion on political campaigns, influence peddling and lobbying during the past decade, which resulted in sweeping deregulation, the gouging of consumers, our global financial meltdown and the subsequent looting of the U.S. Treasury. The Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America spent $26 million last year and drug companies such as Pfizer, Amgen and Eli Lilly kicked in tens of millions more to buy off the two parties. These corporations have made sure our so-called health reform bill will force us to buy their predatory and defective products. The oil and gas industry, the coal industry, defense contractors and telecommunications companies have thwarted the drive for sustainable energy and orchestrated the steady erosion of civil liberties. Politicians do corporate bidding and stage hollow acts of political theater to keep the fiction of the democratic state alive.

There is no national institution left that can accurately be described as democratic. Citizens, rather than participate in power, are allowed to have virtual opinions to preordained questions, a kind of participatory fascism as meaningless as voting on "American Idol." Mass emotions are directed toward the raging culture wars. This allows us to take emotional stands on issues that are inconsequential to the power elite.

Our transformation into an empire, as happened in ancient Athens and Rome, has seen the tyranny we practice abroad become the tyranny we practice at home. We, like all empires, have been eviscerated by our own expansionism. We utilize weapons of horrific destructive power, subsidize their development with billions in taxpayer dollars, and are the world's largest arms dealer. And the Constitution, as Wolin notes, is "conscripted to serve as power's apprentice rather than its conscience."

"Inverted totalitarianism reverses things," Wolin writes. "It is politics all of the time but a politics largely untempered by the political. Party squabbles are occasionally on public display, and there is a frantic and continuous politics among factions of the party, interest groups, competing corporate powers, and rival media concerns. And there is, of course, the culminating moment of national elections when the attention of the nation is required to make a choice of personalities rather than a choice between alternatives. What is absent is the political, the commitment to finding where the common good lies amidst the welter of well-financed, highly organized, single-minded interests rabidly seeking governmental favors and overwhelming the practices of representative government and public administration by a sea of cash."

Hollywood, the news industry and television, all corporate controlled, have become instruments of inverted totalitarianism. They censor or ridicule those who critique or challenge corporate structures and assumptions. They saturate the airwaves with manufactured controversy, whether it is Tiger Woods or the dispute between Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien. They manipulate images to make us confuse how we are made to feel with knowledge, which is how Barack Obama became president. And the draconian internal control employed by the Department of Homeland Security, the military and the police over any form of popular dissent, coupled with the corporate media's censorship, does for inverted totalitarianism what thugs and bonfires of books do in classical totalitarian regimes.

"It seems a replay of historical experience that the bias displayed by today's media should be aimed consistently at the shredded remains of liberalism," Wolin writes. "Recall that an element common to most 20th century totalitarianism, whether Fascist or Stalinist, was hostility towards the left. In the United States, the left is assumed to consist solely of liberals, occasionally of 'the left wing of the Democratic Party,' never of democrats."

Liberals, socialists, trade unionists, independent journalists and intellectuals, many of whom were once important voices in our society, have been silenced or targeted for elimination within corporate-controlled academia, the media and government. Wolin, who taught at Berkeley and later at Princeton, is arguably the country's foremost political philosopher. And yet his book was virtually ignored. This is also why Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich and Cynthia McKinney, along with intellectuals like Noam Chomsky, are not given a part in our national discourse.

The uniformity of opinion is reinforced by the skillfully orchestrated mass emotions of nationalism and patriotism, which paints all dissidents as "soft" or "unpatriotic." The "patriotic" citizen, plagued by fear of job losses and possible terrorist attacks, unfailingly supports widespread surveillance and the militarized state. This means no questioning of the $1 trillion in defense-related spending. It means that the military and intelligence agencies are held above government, as if somehow they are not part of government. The most powerful instruments of state power and control are effectively removed from public discussion. We, as imperial citizens, are taught to be contemptuous of government bureaucracy, yet we stand like sheep before Homeland Security agents in airports and are mute when Congress permits our private correspondence and conversations to be monitored and archived. We endure more state control than at any time in American history.

The civic, patriotic and political language we use to describe ourselves remains unchanged. We pay fealty to the same national symbols and iconography. We find our collective identity in the same national myths. We continue to deify the Founding Fathers. But the America we celebrate is an illusion. It does not exist. Our government and judiciary have no real sovereignty. Our press provides diversion, not information. Our organs of security and power keep us as domesticated and as fearful as most Iraqis. Capitalism, as Karl Marx understood, when it emasculates government, becomes a revolutionary force. And this revolutionary force, best described as inverted totalitarianism, is plunging us into a state of neo-feudalism, perpetual war and severe repression. The Supreme Court decision is part of our transformation by the corporate state from citizens to prisoners.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Billys Boots on January 25, 2010, 02:42:50 PM
Anyone running a small company would be writing a similar story about trying to do business in Ireland today. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on January 26, 2010, 03:58:49 AM
Anyone else remember his disgust last year at W's no bid contracts ::)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/25/obama-administration-steers-lucrative-bid-contract-afghan-work-dem-donor/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 26, 2010, 04:46:38 AM
Declan, where did you find that article?  Curious about its source.

Stew, have to say that the media with which I am bombarded are not at all liberal, e.g. O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and the local radio crew are merely Fox wannabes.

TO, I've been reading your posts for some time and I can't quite figure you out.  You wave the tricolour proudly, you're on the GAAboard, you're from Tyrone, so I'm guessing that you're an N.I. Catholic, at least a cultural one, but you seem to espouse decidedly right-wing views.  I just can't imagine what N.I. political party you'd support if you were back in Ardboe, or wherever.  If it weren't for the flag, I'd guess the DUP.  Seriously, though, what is your stance on the North? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on January 26, 2010, 05:15:10 AM
QuoteTO, I've been reading your posts for some time and I can't quite figure you out.  You wave the tricolour proudly, you're on the GAAboard, you're from Tyrone, so I'm guessing that you're an N.I. Catholic, at least a cultural one, but you seem to espouse decidedly right-wing views.  I just can't imagine what N.I. political party you'd support if you were back in Ardboe, or wherever.  If it weren't for the flag, I'd guess the DUP.  Seriously, though, what is your stance on the North?

Likely none of them...I left home at an early age and I'm here almost as long as I was at home....sure I had a
fairly strong political view growing up in "Ardboe" ;), It was kinda hard not to but that's neither here nor there
as far as I'm concerned and has no bearing what so ever on my outlook now.
As for my avatar..I actually searched for both the Tri color and Old Glory together but give after a time and have simply stuck
with what you see, Go to mass every Sunday evening.....Anything else? 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 26, 2010, 07:44:38 AM
QuoteDeclan, where did you find that article?  Curious about its source.

Good old Truth Dig Oraisteach - More left wing loony conspiracy ;)

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/democracy_in_america_is_a_useful_fiction_20100124/ (http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/democracy_in_america_is_a_useful_fiction_20100124/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on January 26, 2010, 04:38:54 PM
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/economy-and-business/Obama-to-Seek-3-Year-Freeze-on-Spending-to-Tame-Deficit-82685912.html

FFS McCain campaigned on Cutting spending across the board and got laughed out if by Obama and the left!
..surely ye remember the condescending scalpel speech,The man has absolutely no clue!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Caid on February 01, 2010, 11:52:34 AM
http://scci-iraq.com/this-could-have-been-done-with-the-money-spent-on-iraq-war/362/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 18, 2010, 05:01:27 PM
Ah Good old Joe...nothing short of a fecking eejit! :D

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/18/biden-adds-list-verbal-blunders/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+(Text+-+Politics)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ziggysego on March 18, 2010, 05:41:18 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 18, 2010, 05:01:27 PM
Ah Good old Joe...nothing short of a fecking eejit! :D

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/18/biden-adds-list-verbal-blunders/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+(Text+-+Politics)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

Seen that on YouTube this morning  :D

Good to have Bushism-lite back in the White House ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 19, 2010, 04:19:25 AM
QuoteGood to have Bushism-lite back in the White House ;)
Yea but without the media frenzy highlighting it for some reason ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stephenite on March 19, 2010, 04:40:23 AM
Did you ever publish that PM you told everyone you received?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 22, 2010, 02:12:20 PM
Healthcare bill passed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8580192.stm

The major Obama stumbling block overcome.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2010, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 22, 2010, 02:12:20 PM
Healthcare bill passed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8580192.stm

The major Obama stumbling block overcome.

He's made his mark, that's for sure, for better or for worse. Its going to be a very bitterly fought election year! I think I'll continue to tune out of politics till its over. Not going to miss much with all the screaming anyway!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 29, 2010, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 08, 2010, 02:09:21 PM
How's that Hope, Change and Transparency thing working out girls  8)

The last western country to introduce universal health care. I'd say that is change.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 29, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2010, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 22, 2010, 02:12:20 PM
Healthcare bill passed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8580192.stm

The major Obama stumbling block overcome.

He's made his mark, that's for sure, for better or for worse. Its going to be a very bitterly fought election year! I think I'll continue to tune out of politics till its over. Not going to miss much with all the screaming anyway!

I honestly think that America needs a strong third party, the hatfields (republicians) contest everything the McCoys ( Democrats) and the same thing happened wheb Bush was in office, these politicians are failing the Country because they are so mired in nit picking and trying to up one another, I am sick to the eye teeth of them both.

Obama throws out outrageous numbers to back his claims and then has to recant said numbers, that said he is just like Bush 1 & 2 and Clinton in that regard.

I like the idea of universal healthcare, I just dont think that the Country can afford the proposal and Obama has spent staggering sums of money to try and keep the economy afloat, not always wisely.

Lastly, I think the Republicians will make significant gains come election time, the democrats are on the run politically at the moment due to the health care issue but in truth the Republicians are every bit as petty and bad as the dems.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 29, 2010, 09:39:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2010, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 08, 2010, 02:09:21 PM
How's that Hope, Change and Transparency thing working out girls  8)

The last western country to introduce universal health care. I'd say that is change.

Change isnt necessarily good, I have seen universal health care in action and it is not all it is cracked up to be, that said the yankke way of doing things does need an overhaul.

I am not sure Obamas way is the way to go, I dont really trust his judgement at the moment considering he threw billions of dollars to keep organizations afloat that turned around and paid theitr fat cats millions on top of millions in bonus money. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on March 29, 2010, 09:44:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2010, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 08, 2010, 02:09:21 PM
How's that Hope, Change and Transparency thing working out girls  8)

The last western country to introduce universal health care. I'd say that is change.

go look up the HSE before you continue to blab about something you know nothing about again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 29, 2010, 09:47:24 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on March 29, 2010, 09:44:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2010, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 08, 2010, 02:09:21 PM
How's that Hope, Change and Transparency thing working out girls  8)

The last western country to introduce universal health care. I'd say that is change.

go look up the HSE before you continue to blab about something you know nothing about again

Why, did I get it wrong? Did Obama not change anything?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 29, 2010, 10:07:04 PM
As a user of our Universal Health care in Ireland we can all give out about the HSE and sometimes its a horse's ass (co-location and the new childrens' hospital in city centre Dublin) but it hasn't left me penniless. 

The only issue I have with the government spending my taxes on Health Care is that they do silly things with it (see above) but I don't begrudge my tax being used for Universal Healthcare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 02:10:51 AM
QuoteThe last western country to introduce universal health care. I'd say that is change.
Oh no doubt, two things changed last week with the passing of thon monstrosity
a) We dug ourselves a financial hole that we'll likely never climb out of and
b) The gobshites here that have their head in their holes finally copped on to the realization that
we actually don't live in a democracy ::)...Yes, Change that Karl Marx would have been proud of ::)
Goodbye sweet America, Goodbye!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stephenite on March 30, 2010, 02:18:38 AM
Why bother posting when you've no credibility TO? You've been confirmed as a liar
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 02:24:49 AM
Tis also widely known that you're a bit of a simpleton but I honestly
can't spell it out for you in any simpler terms than I have I'm afraid
so fire away for all your worth  :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stephenite on March 30, 2010, 02:34:55 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 02:24:49 AM
Tis also widely known that you're a bit of a simpleton but I honestly
can't spell it out for you in any simpler terms than I have I'm afraid
so fire away for all your worth  :-*

I may have missed something, quite possible given my simple nature, but woud you mind spelling it out for me again.... so far I have..

1.) Tyrones Own states that Muppet sent him a PM
2.)Muppet denies and states that if there is such a PM the person making the claim can publish it to prove it's existence
3.)The accuser dithers in the headlight and then comes up with some nonsense about another posters true identity that is contained in the PM
4.) Tyrones Own is told to edit out the fantasy name and then publish it
5.) Tyrones Own refuses to do so and calls anyone who contines to challenge him on his lies 'simpletons' etc. but still refuses to do the honourable thing.

Perhaps I have missed something?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 02:53:18 AM
Quote from: stephenite on March 30, 2010, 02:34:55 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 02:24:49 AM
Tis also widely known that you're a bit of a simpleton but I honestly
can't spell it out for you in any simpler terms than I have I'm afraid
so fire away for all your worth  :-*

I may have missed something, quite possible given my simple nature, but woud you mind spelling it out for me again.... so far I have..

1.) Tyrones Own states that Muppet sent him a PM
2.)Muppet denies and states that if there is such a PM the person making the claim can publish it to prove it's existence
3.)The accuser dithers in the headlight and then comes up with some nonsense about another posters true identity that is contained in the PM
4.) Tyrones Own is told to edit out the fantasy name and then publish it
5.) Tyrones Own refuses to do so and calls anyone who contines to challenge him on his lies 'simpletons' etc. but still refuses to do the honourable thing.

Perhaps I have missed something?
First off you did miss something, the fact that that isn't the sole reason for my labeling you a simpleton  :P
And for the last time, nothing and I mean nothing would make me happier than to take Muppet down off that high
horse by the throat but the message in my possession would give the identity of the mole even if i edited the name,
I'm assured Muppet would twig it right away and so that's why they're unwilling for me to post it...
but sure feel free to continue spinning wheels and sniping at me here if you've nothing better to be at :-*
Quote1.) Tyrones Own states that Muppet sent him a PM
Where exactly did I state that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stephenite on March 30, 2010, 03:27:11 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 02:53:18 AM
First off you did miss something, the fact that that isn't the sole reason for my labeling you a simpleton

And the others are?

Quote from: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 02:53:18 AM
1.) Tyrones Own states that Muppet sent him a PM
Where exactly did I state that?
[/quote]

Let me see if I have this right, you want me to do what you clearly didn't have
the balls to do to begin with...No sure I'll have way more fun sharing this clinker
through personal message, it seemed to work for you, Oops.. shite, that's right sure it blew up in your face

Quote from: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 02:53:18 AM
but the message in my possession would give the identity of the mole even if i edited the name,
I'm assured Muppet would twig it right away and so that's why they're unwilling for me to post it...

Yawn - more fantasy. I'm sure, even if this figment of your imagination existed they wouldn't give 2 fucks about Muppet twigging anything, given they were prepared to foward the makey up message in the first place.  :D ;D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 05:02:35 AM
Quote
Quote
And the others are?
Em,let me see..... whats hilarious is that I need look no further than your very last post:
QuoteLet me see if I have this right, you want me to do what you clearly didn't have
the balls to do to begin with...No sure I'll have way more fun sharing this clinker
through personal message, it seemed to work for you, Oops.. shite, that's right sure it blew up in your face
Now where in under a fcuk do you get from the above underlined that the spoofer PM'd me anything?
See in your unending obsession with me here and the cheer leading love affair of your buddy either you don't take
the time or ye haven't the brains to figure it out..think I know which one........dunce ::)
Fcuk it..Enough of the infatuation with me on here, if you want my home phone number just ask me for it  :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stephenite on March 30, 2010, 05:24:36 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 05:02:35 AM
Quote
Quote
And the others are?
Em,let me see..... whats hilarious is that I need look no further than your very last post:
QuoteLet me see if I have this right, you want me to do what you clearly didn't have
the balls to do to begin with...No sure I'll have way more fun sharing this clinker
through personal message, it seemed to work for you, Oops.. shite, that's right sure it blew up in your face
Now where in under a fcuk do you get from the above underlined that the spoofer PM'd me anything?
See in your unending obsession with me here and the cheer leading love affair of your buddy either you don't take
the time or ye haven't the brains to figure it out..think I know which one........dunce ::)
Fcuk it..Enough of the infatuation with me on here, if you want my home phone number just ask me for it  :-*

Hair splitting - now there's a surprise.

What's your home phone number?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 05:56:10 AM
QuoteHair splitting - now there's a surprise.
Holy Fcuk......you've been hounding me now for 3 weeks on a regular basis
and suddenly now that you're finally...yawn...up to speed on my stance, I'm now splitting hairs... :D
ye couldn't make it up....too easy!

415-356-9833 not too late
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stephenite on March 30, 2010, 06:09:25 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 05:56:10 AM
QuoteHair splitting - now there's a surprise.
Holy Fcuk......you've been hounding me now for 3 weeks on a regular basis
and suddenly now that you're finally...yawn...up to speed on my stance, I'm now splitting hairs... :D
ye couldn't make it up....too easy!

415-356-9833 not too late

Yes, splitting hairs - you claim to have a PM from Muppet, how it got to you is irrelevant. All I want to see is the PM, that you claim you have, published. You're still refusing to do that under the pretence that you're unable to do so to protect someone else on here, I don't believe you. I don't believe anything that you post and want to see my suspicions that you're a wind up merchant confirmed.

That phone number is disconnected - I was really hoping that you'd have the sense of humour to put up the number of the GOP or some such.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RogerMilla on March 30, 2010, 12:46:30 PM
anyway lads , maybe ye shoudl take this bickering to PM ???

seems to me like obama is on a roll now , he has passed health care , has done a deal with the russians on arms , has just had a successful trip to afghanistan . as a matter of fact if sara palin manages to help republicans do well in the next set of elections it will be a massive boost to him as her getting the republican nomination ahead of a serious candidate like Romney would practically hand him the next four years in office..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on March 30, 2010, 01:45:57 PM
DETROIT: Nine suspects tied to a Midwest Christian militia that was preparing for the Antichrist were charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral using homemade bombs in the hopes of killing more law enforcement personnel, federal prosecutors said Monday.

The Michigan-based group, called Hutaree, planned to use the attack on police as a catalyst for a larger uprising against the government, according to newly unsealed court papers. US Attorney Barbara McQuade said agents moved on the group because its members were planning a violent reconnaissance mission sometime in April.

Members of the group, including its leader, David Brian Stone, also known as "Captain Hutaree," were charged following FBI raids over the weekend on locations in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana.

The idea of attacking a police funeral was one of numerous scenarios discussed as ways to go after law enforcement officers, the indictment said. Other scenarios included a fake emergency call to lure an officer to his or her death, or an attack on the family of a police officer.

Once other officers gathered for a slain officer's funeral, the group planned to detonate homemade bombs at the funeral, killing more, according to the indictment.

After such attacks, the group allegedly planned to retreat to "rally points" protected by trip-wired improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, for what they expected would become a violent standoff with law enforcement personnel.

"It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more wide-spread uprising against the government," the indictment charges.

According to investigators, the Hutaree view local, state, and federal law enforcement personnel as a "brotherhood" and an enemy, and planned to attack them as part of an armed struggle against the US government.

The indictment charges members of the group conspired "to levy war against the United States, (and) to oppose by force the authority of the government of the United States." Eight suspects have been arrested by the FBI, and one more is being sought. Of the eight captured, seven were arraigned Monday in Detroit and ordered held pending a bond hearing Wednesday.

The charges against the eight include seditious conspiracy, possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, teaching the use of explosives, and attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction - homemade bombs.

All seven defendants in court on Monday requested to be represented by the federal defender's office.

The arrests have dealt "a severe blow to a dangerous organization that today stands accused of conspiring to levy war against the United States," US Attorney General Eric Holder said Monday.

The case "is an example of radical and extremist fringe groups which can be found throughout our society. The FBI takes such extremist groups seriously, especially those who would target innocent citizens and the law enforcement officers who protect the citizens of the United States," said Andrew Arena, head of the FBI's field office in Detroit.

Stone's ex-wife, Donna Stone, told The Associated Press before the arraignments that her former husband was to blame for pulling her son into the Hutaree movement. She said David Brian Stone legally adopted her son, David Brian Stone Jr., who is among those indicted. She said the marriage lasted about 10 years.

"It started out as a Christian thing," said Donna Stone, 44. "You go to church. You pray. You take care of your family. I think David started to take it a little too far.

He dragged a lot of people with him." Another son of David Brian Stone, Joshua Matthew Stone, is also indicted and currently a fugitive, said Detroit FBI spokeswoman Sandra Berchtold.

On its Web site, Hutaree quotes several Bible passages and states: "We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ. ... Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment." There's also a picture on the site of 17 camouflaged men, all holding large guns.

The group didn't return an e-mail sent by The Associated Press, and attempts by telephone to reach the Stones went unanswered.

FBI agents in Michigan swarmed a rural, wooded property Saturday evening in Adrian, about 70 miles (115 kilometers) southwest of Detroit. That same night in Hammond, Indiana, law enforcement agents flooded a neighborhood, startling workers at a nearby pizzeria. And in Ohio authorities blocked off streets and raided two homes.

Outside Adrian, two ramshackle trailers sat side-by-side on Stone's property. A long gun leaned against a washing machine that sat in the yard, and on top of a nearby canister was another long gun.

Heidi Wood, who lives near the property, said Monday morning she hears gunshots "all the time." Her mother, Phyllis Brugger, who has lived in the area for more than 30 years, said Stone and his family were known as having ties to militia. They would shoot guns and often wore camouflage, the women said.

"Everybody knew they were militia," Brugger said. "You don't mess with them."

Plenty of nutters still around....maybe send them to gitmo ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 30, 2010, 02:00:00 PM
Quote from: RogerMilla on March 30, 2010, 12:46:30 PM
anyway lads , maybe ye shoudl take this bickering to PM ???

seems to me like obama is on a roll now , he has passed health care , has done a deal with the russians on arms , has just had a successful trip to afghanistan . as a matter of fact if sara palin manages to help republicans do well in the next set of elections it will be a massive boost to him as her getting the republican nomination ahead of a serious candidate like Romney would practically hand him the next four years in office..

Did you see the RTE news last night? Sarah Palin supporters were talking about marching on The White House to 'take him out'.

Amazing how funding wars and proxy wars is not an issue but paying to care for sick Americans is.

And for the record I've been through all my received and sent PMs since this conspiracy claimed by Tyrone's Own and to a lesser extent Stew and MagicKingdom began. None to me or from me refer to Tyrone's Own or his NeoCon pals in any capacity.

Here is a list (I hope the posters don't mind but none were ever referred to as confidential)

Hoof Hearted (fantasy rugby competition & 6 Nations related PMs)
Trileacman (question on one of my many caption competitions)
3 other posters who forwarded me an infamous PM about a northern politician who I won't name but nothing to do with TO.
Stew on the 8th December correcting me on my misinterpretation of a post of his
Longrunsthefox a Gaa related PM
Stephenite a PM on players strikes
Redandgreensniper PMs on a clubman of his that I played with years ago
Magpie Seanie PM regarding on An Bord Pleanala
The Real Laoislad trying to figure out what we were both arguing about (neither of us knew)

That covers my PMs back to 7th October 2009. Boring I know. Anything else is just a wind up that has turned into a lie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ulick on March 30, 2010, 02:01:21 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on March 30, 2010, 01:45:57 PM
DETROIT: Nine suspects tied to a Midwest Christian militia that was preparing for the Antichrist were charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral using homemade bombs in the hopes of killing more law enforcement personnel, federal prosecutors said Monday.


A opposed to Islamic terrorists?  ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 30, 2010, 02:03:40 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 30, 2010, 02:01:21 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on March 30, 2010, 01:45:57 PM
DETROIT: Nine suspects tied to a Midwest Christian militia that was preparing for the Antichrist were charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral using homemade bombs in the hopes of killing more law enforcement personnel, federal prosecutors said Monday.


A opposed to Islamic terrorists?  ???

Well spotted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 30, 2010, 02:27:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 30, 2010, 02:03:40 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 30, 2010, 02:01:21 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on March 30, 2010, 01:45:57 PM
DETROIT: Nine suspects tied to a Midwest Christian militia that was preparing for the Antichrist were charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral using homemade bombs in the hopes of killing more law enforcement personnel, federal prosecutors said Monday.


A opposed to Islamic terrorists?  ???

Well spotted

Indeed.

By the way, how do you "prepare for the Antichrist"? And are these nutters enemies of the lads preparing for the second coming of Christ and the Rapture or are they the same lads expecting all three to happen together? I'd hate to miss gig whenever they get it on. But I suppose it'll be on YouTube.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 30, 2010, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 30, 2010, 02:27:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 30, 2010, 02:03:40 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 30, 2010, 02:01:21 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on March 30, 2010, 01:45:57 PM
DETROIT: Nine suspects tied to a Midwest Christian militia that was preparing for the Antichrist were charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral using homemade bombs in the hopes of killing more law enforcement personnel, federal prosecutors said Monday.


A opposed to Islamic terrorists?  ???

Well spotted

Indeed.

By the way, how do you "prepare for the Antichrist"? And are these nutters enemies of the lads preparing for the second coming of Christ and the Rapture or are they the same lads expecting all three to happen together? I'd hate to miss gig whenever they get it on. But I suppose it'll be on YouTube.

I suspect they think the AntiChrist has arrived and is spreading the evil word of healthcare.

I need a large popcorn and coke please. This could be good.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on March 30, 2010, 02:55:55 PM
I wonder what the difference is between an Islamic terrorist, and a christain militia?

Was reading the other day that Obama faces a bigger threat from these Militia groups within
the US, than he does from overseas.
Wonder will Sarah Palin bring a few of these along with her when they "take out" Obama?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 30, 2010, 02:59:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 05:56:10 AM
QuoteHair splitting - now there's a surprise.
Holy Fcuk......you've been hounding me now for 3 weeks on a regular basis
and suddenly now that you're finally...yawn...up to speed on my stance, I'm now splitting hairs... :D
ye couldn't make it up....too easy!

415-356-9833 not too late
http://www.rejectionline.com/copycat.html (http://www.rejectionline.com/copycat.html)

That is a number for San Francisco rejectionline. More lies (sorry hilarious winding up).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RogerMilla on March 30, 2010, 04:43:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 30, 2010, 02:00:00 PM
Quote from: RogerMilla on March 30, 2010, 12:46:30 PM
anyway lads , maybe ye shoudl take this bickering to PM ???

seems to me like obama is on a roll now , he has passed health care , has done a deal with the russians on arms , has just had a successful trip to afghanistan . as a matter of fact if sara palin manages to help republicans do well in the next set of elections it will be a massive boost to him as her getting the republican nomination ahead of a serious candidate like Romney would practically hand him the next four years in office..

Did you see the RTE news last night? Sarah Palin supporters were talking about marching on The White House to 'take him out'.

Amazing how funding wars and proxy wars is not an issue but paying to care for sick Americans is.


she will be the best enemy obama could have asked for.. you heard of reagan democrats , she will create obaba republicans , that changey hopey stuff just started working out for him....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 30, 2010, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 30, 2010, 02:27:29 PM
By the way, how do you "prepare for the Antichrist"? And are these nutters enemies of the lads preparing for the second coming of Christ and the Rapture or are they the same lads expecting all three to happen together? I'd hate to miss gig whenever they get it on. But I suppose it'll be on YouTube.

Probably the same dudes who think airlines won't pair a Christian pilot with a Christian co-pilot (http://www.snopes.com/religion/pilot.asp) for fear of the Rapture happening while they're in the air
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 06:00:47 PM
Quotehttp://www.rejectionline.com/copycat.html

That is a number for San Francisco rejectionline. More lies (sorry hilarious winding up).

QuoteThat phone number is disconnected - I was really hoping that you'd have the sense of humour to put up the number of the GOP or some such.

One called it and the other Googled it  :D....ah the obsession is alive and well ;D
seriously... your two lives really couldn't be that sad or non existent ...could they?
And what knickers would expect someone to post his home phone number on here ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 30, 2010, 06:17:56 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 30, 2010, 06:00:47 PM
Quotehttp://www.rejectionline.com/copycat.html

That is a number for San Francisco rejectionline. More lies (sorry hilarious winding up).

QuoteThat phone number is disconnected - I was really hoping that you'd have the sense of humour to put up the number of the GOP or some such.

One called it and the other Googled it  :D....ah the obsession is alive and well ;D
seriously... your two lives really couldn't be that sad or non existent ...could they?
And what knickers would expect someone to post his home phone number on here ::)

I don't believe anything you post. That's why I googled it and lo and behold you were of course not telling the truth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 06:41:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2010, 09:47:24 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on March 29, 2010, 09:44:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2010, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 08, 2010, 02:09:21 PM
How's that Hope, Change and Transparency thing working out girls  8)

The last western country to introduce universal health care. I'd say that is change.

go look up the HSE before you continue to blab about something you know nothing about again

Why, did I get it wrong? Did Obama not change anything?

yes you got it wrong, theres no universal health care in ireland. no medical card, no private health care equals no cover.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 01, 2010, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 06:41:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2010, 09:47:24 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on March 29, 2010, 09:44:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2010, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 08, 2010, 02:09:21 PM
How's that Hope, Change and Transparency thing working out girls  8)

The last western country to introduce universal health care. I'd say that is change.

go look up the HSE before you continue to blab about something you know nothing about again

Why, did I get it wrong? Did Obama not change anything?

yes you got it wrong, theres no universal health care in ireland. no medical card, no private health care equals no cover.

No matter who you are and what your means you will be treated in an Irish hospital (eventually but that's a different story  ::))

That is not the case in the States and yes it happened to me.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 07:00:50 PM
muppet, if your in the states and you go to a city hospital you will get treated no matter what, cover or no cover. if you go to any other/private hospital you wont just like here. try showing up at a bons secours hospital in ireland or the mater private without coverage and see what happens. the myth that people are dying in the streets in the states because they wont get treated is just that. no one gets turned away from city hospitals in the states which are about the same standard as general hospitals in ireland 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 01, 2010, 08:27:33 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 07:00:50 PM
muppet, if your in the states and you go to a city hospital you will get treated no matter what, cover or no cover. if you go to any other/private hospital you wont just like here. try showing up at a bons secours hospital in ireland or the mater private without coverage and see what happens. the myth that people are dying in the streets in the states because they wont get treated is just that. no one gets turned away from city hospitals in the states which are about the same standard as general hospitals in ireland

MK after the initial small fee hospital care is free in Ireland. If you don't have the small fee it won't matter. If you pay extra you can go to a private hospital.

City hospital care is spectacularly expensive in the States and in my experience (hardly a fair sample I accept) they wouldn't touch me until I had sorted out payment which took 3 hours and the black guy who was beside me (bleeding profusely from a small round hole near his knee) was still there untouched when I left. He told me they wouldn't treat him until all the insured were treated. Don't know what happened him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2010, 08:27:33 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 07:00:50 PM
muppet, if your in the states and you go to a city hospital you will get treated no matter what, cover or no cover. if you go to any other/private hospital you wont just like here. try showing up at a bons secours hospital in ireland or the mater private without coverage and see what happens. the myth that people are dying in the streets in the states because they wont get treated is just that. no one gets turned away from city hospitals in the states which are about the same standard as general hospitals in ireland

MK after the initial small fee hospital care is free in Ireland. If you don't have the small fee it won't matter. If you pay extra you can go to a private hospital.

City hospital care is spectacularly expensive in the States and in my experience (hardly a fair sample I accept) they wouldn't touch me until I had sorted out payment which took 3 hours and the black guy who was beside me (bleeding profusely from a small round hole near his knee) was still there untouched when I left. He told me they wouldn't treat him until all the insured were treated. Don't know what happened him.

like i said, if you dont have the money its as free as it is in ireland. hope the other guy pulled thro  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 01, 2010, 09:40:58 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2010, 08:27:33 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 07:00:50 PM
muppet, if your in the states and you go to a city hospital you will get treated no matter what, cover or no cover. if you go to any other/private hospital you wont just like here. try showing up at a bons secours hospital in ireland or the mater private without coverage and see what happens. the myth that people are dying in the streets in the states because they wont get treated is just that. no one gets turned away from city hospitals in the states which are about the same standard as general hospitals in ireland

MK after the initial small fee hospital care is free in Ireland. If you don't have the small fee it won't matter. If you pay extra you can go to a private hospital.

City hospital care is spectacularly expensive in the States and in my experience (hardly a fair sample I accept) they wouldn't touch me until I had sorted out payment which took 3 hours and the black guy who was beside me (bleeding profusely from a small round hole near his knee) was still there untouched when I left. He told me they wouldn't treat him until all the insured were treated. Don't know what happened him.

like i said, if you dont have the money its as free as it is in ireland. hope the other guy pulled thro  ;)

No it is free in Ireland if you don't have the money. You don't seem to get this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 02, 2010, 05:54:17 PM
Its not often you're right muppet but you're wrong again :D
simply trying to twist and turn this one with semantics isn't going to get it done!
FFS just admit that you were wrong ....................for once  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 02, 2010, 05:58:38 PM
On a lighter note.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg

I'm actually lost for words on how a dumb fcuk like this was ever voted to Congress
can you imagine if Bush had of come out with that...or heaven forbid Palin :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2010, 06:13:55 PM
Certainly not the most articulate - that was awful, even without the "capsize" bit! If he genuinely thinks Guam could capsize and tip over with the addition of 8000 marines, he must have learned his science in some creationist school! The very best and generous interpretation you could put on that is that he completely screwed up whatever metaphor he was aiming for with respect to overpopulaton affecting the ecology of the island, but I don't think he'll be pushing for any leadership positions in the near future! Congress certainly seems to have its share of morons, on both sides.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on April 02, 2010, 07:14:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2010, 09:40:58 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2010, 08:27:33 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 07:00:50 PM
muppet, if your in the states and you go to a city hospital you will get treated no matter what, cover or no cover. if you go to any other/private hospital you wont just like here. try showing up at a bons secours hospital in ireland or the mater private without coverage and see what happens. the myth that people are dying in the streets in the states because they wont get treated is just that. no one gets turned away from city hospitals in the states which are about the same standard as general hospitals in ireland

MK after the initial small fee hospital care is free in Ireland. If you don't have the small fee it won't matter. If you pay extra you can go to a private hospital.

City hospital care is spectacularly expensive in the States and in my experience (hardly a fair sample I accept) they wouldn't touch me until I had sorted out payment which took 3 hours and the black guy who was beside me (bleeding profusely from a small round hole near his knee) was still there untouched when I left. He told me they wouldn't treat him until all the insured were treated. Don't know what happened him.

like i said, if you dont have the money its as free as it is in ireland. hope the other guy pulled thro  ;)

No it is free in Ireland if you don't have the money. You don't seem to get this.

its free in the US if you dont have the money. You dont seem to get this. just like ireland they dont collect if you dont have it. kinda like the nod and wink system in ireland
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2010, 07:28:41 PM
Where do medical bills feature in Ireland in terms of bankruptcy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 02, 2010, 09:02:17 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 02, 2010, 07:14:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2010, 09:40:58 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2010, 08:27:33 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 01, 2010, 07:00:50 PM
muppet, if your in the states and you go to a city hospital you will get treated no matter what, cover or no cover. if you go to any other/private hospital you wont just like here. try showing up at a bons secours hospital in ireland or the mater private without coverage and see what happens. the myth that people are dying in the streets in the states because they wont get treated is just that. no one gets turned away from city hospitals in the states which are about the same standard as general hospitals in ireland

MK after the initial small fee hospital care is free in Ireland. If you don't have the small fee it won't matter. If you pay extra you can go to a private hospital.

City hospital care is spectacularly expensive in the States and in my experience (hardly a fair sample I accept) they wouldn't touch me until I had sorted out payment which took 3 hours and the black guy who was beside me (bleeding profusely from a small round hole near his knee) was still there untouched when I left. He told me they wouldn't treat him until all the insured were treated. Don't know what happened him.

like i said, if you dont have the money its as free as it is in ireland. hope the other guy pulled thro  ;)

No it is free in Ireland if you don't have the money. You don't seem to get this.

its free in the US if you dont have the money. You dont seem to get this. just like ireland they dont collect if you dont have it. kinda like the nod and wink system in ireland

Big difference, in the States you get an enormous bill that you can't get rid of with a nod and wink.

I sat in St Vincents Manhattan for 3 hours without being seen and they wouldn't touch me or anyone else that didn't have insurance. All others were seen as I was when I arranged a call from home. Like I said one person doesn't prove a case but I suspect this is pretty widespread.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 03, 2010, 05:34:10 AM
Quote
Big difference, in the States you get an enormous bill that you can't get rid of with a nod and wink.
And you would know that how ::) cause funny I live here and work with lots of Illegals who actually laugh at us idiots
for actually trying to make payments.....
QuoteI sat in St Vincents Manhattan for 3 hours without being seen and they wouldn't touch me or anyone else that didn't have insurance.
And you knew all the other peoples financial situations how.... complete strangers had no problem divulging personal stuff while in severe pain to another complete stranger  ::)
QuoteAll others were seen as I was when I arranged a call from home.
So let me see if I have this right.....you simply arranged a call and everything was sorted :D fcuk it's Donald Trump :o
QuoteLike I said one person doesn't prove a case but I suspect this is pretty widespread.
No shit.... it's actually called spectacular sensationalism!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 03, 2010, 10:43:50 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 03, 2010, 05:34:10 AM
Quote
Big difference, in the States you get an enormous bill that you can't get rid of with a nod and wink.
And you would know that how ::) cause funny I live here and work with lots of Illegals who actually laugh at us idiots
for actually trying to make payments.....
QuoteI sat in St Vincents Manhattan for 3 hours without being seen and they wouldn't touch me or anyone else that didn't have insurance.
And you knew all the other peoples financial situations how.... complete strangers had no problem divulging personal stuff while in severe pain to another complete stranger  ::)
QuoteAll others were seen as I was when I arranged a call from home.
So let me see if I have this right.....you simply arranged a call and everything was sorted :D fcuk it's Donald Trump :o
QuoteLike I said one person doesn't prove a case but I suspect this is pretty widespread.
No shit.... it's actually called spectacular sensationalism!

First because I've been to fundraisers for guys seriously hurt in the States who were left with massive bills.

Second one, this will be incomprehensible to but in an A&E for hours (with 2 mates) we spoke to some of those around us. Imagine that! Complete strangers had no problem explaining why they were sitting with nothing happening for hours.

Finally sadly I'm not Donald Trump. But imagine getting hurt away from home in a country that won't treat you without proof of ability to pay. If you are a normal person you are going to make phone calls. One of my mates got my boss in the wee hours and he sent some communication to the hospital that was accepted as a guarantee of payment. Wow....no Donald Trumps involved either.

For the benefit of any Irish based person who may visit, the States VHI provide coverage in the States. Just phone +1-800-364-9022 (toll free) unless you are Tyrone's Own and you object to sorting things out on the phone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 03, 2010, 11:49:31 AM
Muppet, it's your business, but why are you according this clown any credibility by engaging with him? He's a busted flush. I skip his posts as, I suspect, do most people since his exposure as a liar and a chancer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 03, 2010, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 03, 2010, 11:49:31 AM
Muppet, it's your business, but why are you according this clown any credibility by engaging with him? He's a busted flush. I skip his posts as, I suspect, do most people since his exposure as a liar and a chancer.

I agree I should know better but then I don't learn from any of my other mistakes either.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on April 03, 2010, 01:45:26 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 03, 2010, 11:49:31 AM
Muppet, it's your business, but why are you according this clown any credibility by engaging with him? He's a busted flush. I skip his posts as, I suspect, do most people since his exposure as a liar and a chancer.

muppet is on here peddling rubbish hardy, his whole health care argument is based on 3 hours in st vincents hospital ny and a few people he talked to (try getting out of an a&e in ireland in that time). obviously if the hospital believe a person can pay they will ask for it and if your a tourist skipping off to ireland the next week they would like to think you were smart enough to get insurance and to provide that insurance and not burden them. i was born in the states, have lived half my life there where i worked as an accountant dealing with people at work who did NOT have health care cover. you would simply write to the hospital confirming their salary and that they had no health cover and could not pay. end of story. yet muppet will no doubt continue to argue with this post rather than admit hes wrong but then again he thinks there is universal health care everywhere in the western world except the US. go figure that one out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 03, 2010, 02:05:31 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 03, 2010, 01:45:26 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 03, 2010, 11:49:31 AM
Muppet, it's your business, but why are you according this clown any credibility by engaging with him? He's a busted flush. I skip his posts as, I suspect, do most people since his exposure as a liar and a chancer.

muppet is on here peddling rubbish hardy, his whole health care argument is based on 3 hours in st vincents hospital ny and a few people he talked to (try getting out of an a&e in ireland in that time). obviously if the hospital believe a person can pay they will ask for it and if your a tourist skipping off to ireland the next week they would like to think you were smart enough to get insurance and to provide that insurance and not burden them. i was born in the states, have lived half my life there where i worked as an accountant dealing with people at work who did NOT have health care cover. you would simply write to the hospital confirming their salary and that they had no health cover and could not pay. end of story. yet muppet will no doubt continue to argue with this post rather than admit hes wrong but then again he thinks there is universal health care everywhere in the western world except the US. go figure that one out

That's all fair enough as your opinion, mk, and legitimate debate between you and Muppet, unless you're accusing him of lying. My reference was to that other chancer, who has been exposed as a fraud but hasn't even the decency to remove himself from view around here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on April 03, 2010, 02:52:50 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 03, 2010, 02:05:31 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 03, 2010, 01:45:26 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 03, 2010, 11:49:31 AM
Muppet, it's your business, but why are you according this clown any credibility by engaging with him? He's a busted flush. I skip his posts as, I suspect, do most people since his exposure as a liar and a chancer.

muppet is on here peddling rubbish hardy, his whole health care argument is based on 3 hours in st vincents hospital ny and a few people he talked to (try getting out of an a&e in ireland in that time). obviously if the hospital believe a person can pay they will ask for it and if your a tourist skipping off to ireland the next week they would like to think you were smart enough to get insurance and to provide that insurance and not burden them. i was born in the states, have lived half my life there where i worked as an accountant dealing with people at work who did NOT have health care cover. you would simply write to the hospital confirming their salary and that they had no health cover and could not pay. end of story. yet muppet will no doubt continue to argue with this post rather than admit hes wrong but then again he thinks there is universal health care everywhere in the western world except the US. go figure that one out

That's all fair enough as your opinion, mk, and legitimate debate between you and Muppet, unless you're accusing him of lying. My reference was to that other chancer, who has been exposed as a fraud but hasn't even the decency to remove himself from view around here.

not implying that at all, i like muppet.... on other threads ;D he just has a big blind spot (with plenty others on here) when it comes to the USA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 03:53:38 PM
I work in the fire service here in the states so I am usually in the E.R a few times a week with patients. This is how it works, when you come into the E.R the nursing staff will triage you, after their assessment they will figure out how critical your complaint is, if it is life threatening you will be seen right away by a doctor (insurance or no insurance) if not life threatening you will be seen in accordance of either when you showed up in the E.R or how serious you complaint is, everyone gets seen insurance or no insurance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: pintsofguinness on April 03, 2010, 04:03:16 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 03:53:38 PM
I work in the fire service here in the states so I am usually in the E.R a few times a week with patients. This is how it works, when you come into the E.R the nursing staff will triage you, after their assessment they will figure out how critical your complaint is, if it is life threatening you will be seen right away by a doctor (insurance or no insurance) if not life threatening you will be seen in accordance of how either when you showed up in the E.R or how serious you complaint is, everyone gets seen insurance or no insurance.
What happens after that though, if you have no insurance, do you get a bill? and what if you can't pay it?

I don't know much about it at all but there was a big fund rasier in our club a couple of years ago because a local man who moved to the states years before had cancer and had to pay his medical bills.  If memory serves I think his insurance would only cover part of it...


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2010, 04:13:57 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 03, 2010, 04:03:16 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 03:53:38 PM
I work in the fire service here in the states so I am usually in the E.R a few times a week with patients. This is how it works, when you come into the E.R the nursing staff will triage you, after their assessment they will figure out how critical your complaint is, if it is life threatening you will be seen right away by a doctor (insurance or no insurance) if not life threatening you will be seen in accordance of how either when you showed up in the E.R or how serious you complaint is, everyone gets seen insurance or no insurance.
What happens after that though, if you have no insurance, do you get a bill? and what if you can't pay it?

I don't know much about it at all but there was a big fund rasier in our club a couple of years ago because a local man who moved to the states years before had cancer and had to pay his medical bills.  If memory serves I think his insurance would only cover part of it...

If you can't pay, you'll go bankrupt. Otherwise skip the country (I lived with an Irish lad for a couple of months who did exactly that because he was billed 30K for treatment after a car accident).

In 2007, more than 60% of bankruptcies in the US resulted from medical bills, with a large majority of those people actually having insurance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 03, 2010, 04:26:38 PM
QuoteI don't know much about it at all but there was a big fund rasier in our club a couple of years ago because a local man who moved to the states years before had cancer and had to pay his medical bills.  If memory serves I think his insurance would only cover part of it...
Pint's I've set on committees of fundraisers in the past and can honestly report that precious little of what money was raised
ever found it's way to the hospital, it went solely to personal expenses of that person, loss of earnings, mortgage, day care etc
but hey don't let me stomp on muppets dramatization of how terrible it is for us here ::)

Bite me Hardly :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 04:50:04 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 03, 2010, 04:03:16 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 03:53:38 PM
I work in the fire service here in the states so I am usually in the E.R a few times a week with patients. This is how it works, when you come into the E.R the nursing staff will triage you, after their assessment they will figure out how critical your complaint is, if it is life threatening you will be seen right away by a doctor (insurance or no insurance) if not life threatening you will be seen in accordance of how either when you showed up in the E.R or how serious you complaint is, everyone gets seen insurance or no insurance.
What happens after that though, if you have no insurance, do you get a bill? and what if you can't pay it?

I don't know much about it at all but there was a big fund rasier in our club a couple of years ago because a local man who moved to the states years before had cancer and had to pay his medical bills.  If memory serves I think his insurance would only cover part of it...

This is what happened a friend of mine last year that had no insurance. The hospital sent him a bill for $50,000. He told them he could not afford that amount so both the hospital and himself negotiated the final bill down by 66% of the original amount. They then arranged a payment plan so that he could pay back the bill over an arranged period of time.

The insurance companies never pay the hospitals or doctors the amount they are billed either. When I receive statements from my insurance company I notice that they only reimburse the doctors or hospitals  for about one-third the billed amount. It seems that everything is negotiable.

The real problem with healthcare in the U.S is the cost, where I work a family plan is $650 a month. The upside of course  is that when you need a procedure like a hip or knee replacement it will be done in a matter of weeks, you do not have the long waits for elective surgeries like you do in Ireland.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: pintsofguinness on April 03, 2010, 05:04:06 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 04:50:04 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 03, 2010, 04:03:16 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 03:53:38 PM
I work in the fire service here in the states so I am usually in the E.R a few times a week with patients. This is how it works, when you come into the E.R the nursing staff will triage you, after their assessment they will figure out how critical your complaint is, if it is life threatening you will be seen right away by a doctor (insurance or no insurance) if not life threatening you will be seen in accordance of how either when you showed up in the E.R or how serious you complaint is, everyone gets seen insurance or no insurance.
What happens after that though, if you have no insurance, do you get a bill? and what if you can't pay it?

I don't know much about it at all but there was a big fund rasier in our club a couple of years ago because a local man who moved to the states years before had cancer and had to pay his medical bills.  If memory serves I think his insurance would only cover part of it...

This is what happened a friend of mine last year that had no insurance. The hospital sent him a bill for $50,000. He told them he could not afford that amount so both the hospital and himself negotiated the final bill down by 66% of the original amount. They then arranged a payment plan so that he could pay back the bill over an arranged period of time.

The insurance companies never pay the hospitals or doctors the amount they are billed either. When I receive statements from my insurance company I notice that they only reimburse the doctors or hospitals  for about one-third the billed amount. It seems that everything is negotiable.

The real problem with healthcare in the U.S is the cost, where I work a family plan is $650 a month. The upside of course  is that when you need a procedure like a hip or knee replacement it will be done in a matter of weeks, you do not have the long waits for elective surgeries like you do in Ireland.
That's still 17 grand he's left to pay and what if he couldn't  he'd go bankrupt - like J70 points out

So the new health care plan will mean almost everyone will be covered by insruance? and insurance companies can't f**k around - surely that's only a good thing.

Imagine getting sick and being hit with a massive bill you couldn't pay and then facing bankruptcy - you wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 03, 2010, 06:05:05 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 04:50:04 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 03, 2010, 04:03:16 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 03:53:38 PM
I work in the fire service here in the states so I am usually in the E.R a few times a week with patients. This is how it works, when you come into the E.R the nursing staff will triage you, after their assessment they will figure out how critical your complaint is, if it is life threatening you will be seen right away by a doctor (insurance or no insurance) if not life threatening you will be seen in accordance of how either when you showed up in the E.R or how serious you complaint is, everyone gets seen insurance or no insurance.
What happens after that though, if you have no insurance, do you get a bill? and what if you can't pay it?

I don't know much about it at all but there was a big fund rasier in our club a couple of years ago because a local man who moved to the states years before had cancer and had to pay his medical bills.  If memory serves I think his insurance would only cover part of it...

This is what happened a friend of mine last year that had no insurance. The hospital sent him a bill for $50,000. He told them he could not afford that amount so both the hospital and himself negotiated the final bill down by 66% of the original amount. They then arranged a payment plan so that he could pay back the bill over an arranged period of time.

The insurance companies never pay the hospitals or doctors the amount they are billed either. When I receive statements from my insurance company I notice that they only reimburse the doctors or hospitals  for about one-third the billed amount. It seems that everything is negotiable.

The real problem with healthcare in the U.S is the cost, where I work a family plan is $650 a month. The upside of course  is that when you need a procedure like a hip or knee replacement it will be done in a matter of weeks, you do not have the long waits for elective surgeries like you do in Ireland.

Ireland's problem is that it is completely inefficient. But getting sick in Ireland doesn't mean you risk bankruptcy.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2010, 07:17:46 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 04:50:04 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 03, 2010, 04:03:16 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 03:53:38 PM
I work in the fire service here in the states so I am usually in the E.R a few times a week with patients. This is how it works, when you come into the E.R the nursing staff will triage you, after their assessment they will figure out how critical your complaint is, if it is life threatening you will be seen right away by a doctor (insurance or no insurance) if not life threatening you will be seen in accordance of how either when you showed up in the E.R or how serious you complaint is, everyone gets seen insurance or no insurance.
What happens after that though, if you have no insurance, do you get a bill? and what if you can't pay it?

I don't know much about it at all but there was a big fund rasier in our club a couple of years ago because a local man who moved to the states years before had cancer and had to pay his medical bills.  If memory serves I think his insurance would only cover part of it...

This is what happened a friend of mine last year that had no insurance. The hospital sent him a bill for $50,000. He told them he could not afford that amount so both the hospital and himself negotiated the final bill down by 66% of the original amount. They then arranged a payment plan so that he could pay back the bill over an arranged period of time.

The insurance companies never pay the hospitals or doctors the amount they are billed either. When I receive statements from my insurance company I notice that they only reimburse the doctors or hospitals  for about one-third the billed amount. It seems that everything is negotiable.

The real problem with healthcare in the U.S is the cost, where I work a family plan is $650 a month. The upside of course  is that when you need a procedure like a hip or knee replacement it will be done in a matter of weeks, you do not have the long waits for elective surgeries like you do in Ireland.

What happens to someone in the US who is in that hole between medicaid/medicare and being able to afford to pay for health insurance? Do they have any way of getting something like a hip or knee replacement? Or is it tough shit, live with it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 08:52:12 PM
J70, not sure on this but you will probably end up as my friend mentioned above had to do,  he negotiated with the hospital. As I said the cost is where the problem lies over here, the care itself is very good.
What I forgot to add when referring to the cost here is that $650 a month was in addition to what the employer has to pay so you are close to $1500 for the month for health insurance, the cost is crippling families and employers alike.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on April 06, 2010, 01:31:08 AM
Did anyone see this video that has appeared showing US troops in Bagdad killing unarmed civilians,
including 2 Reuters press men.

Listen to them laugh at the sight of dead men, and show no mercy for children caught up in the attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaqY12VHFv4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on April 06, 2010, 11:59:26 AM
Saw that alright - Frightening stuff but Wikileaks says it will shortly release a second secret US military video showing the deaths of civilians in an attack in Afghanistan. The Pentagon has been seeking ways to prevent classified material appearing on Wikileaks, including through "criminal sanctions". Wikileaks has made public classified US army reports on weapons, military units and battle strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Saw this quote on a report:
The Pentagon report, reflecting the depth of paranoia about where Wikileaks is obtaining its material, speculates that the CIA may be responsible. But perhaps most embarrassing leak for the US defence department was that of the 2008 report itself which appeared on the Wikileaks site last month
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on April 06, 2010, 12:09:21 PM
And then then are these brave US soldiers running amok in Afghanistan.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7087637.ece


US special forces soldiers dug bullets out of their victims' bodies in the bloody aftermath of a botched night raid, then washed the wounds with alcohol before lying to their superiors about what happened, Afghan investigators have told The Times.

Two pregnant women, a teenage girl, a police officer and his brother were shot on February 12 when US and Afghan special forces stormed their home in Khataba village, outside Gardez in eastern Afghanistan. The precise composition of the force has never been made public.

The claims were made as Nato admitted responsibility for all the deaths for the first time last night. It had initially claimed that the women had been dead for several hours when the assault force discovered their bodies.

"Despite earlier reports we have determined that the women were accidentally killed as a result of the joint force firing at the men," said Lieutenant-Colonel Todd Breasseale, a Nato spokesman. The coalition continued to deny that there had been a cover-up and said that its legal investigation, which is ongoing, had found no evidence of inappropriate conduct.

The Kabul headquarters of General Stanley McChrystal, the commander of US and Nato forces, claimed originally that the women had been "tied up, gagged and killed".

A senior Afghan official involved in a government investigation told The Times: "I think the special forces lied to McChrystal."

"Why did the special forces collect their bullets from the area?" the official said. "They washed the area of the injuries with alcohol and brought out the bullets from the dead bodies. The bodies showed there were big holes."

The official, who asked not to be named until the results of the investigation have been made public, said that the assault force sealed off the compound from 4am, when the raid started, to 11am, when Afghan officials from Gardez were finally allowed access to the house.

At least 11 bullets were fired during the raid, the investigator said, and the shooting was carried out by two American gunmen positioned on the roof of the compound. Only seven bullets were recovered from the scene.

"I asked McChrystal, 'why did the Americans clean some of the bullets from the area?' They don't have the right to do that," the official said.

Haji Sharabuddin, the head of the family who were attacked, told The Times last month that troops removed bullets from his relatives' bodies, but his claims were impossible to verify. The hallway where four of the five victims were killed had been repainted and at least two bullet holes had been plastered over.

Video footage of the raid's aftermath, collected by Afghan investigators, shows close-up shots of one man's bloodstained and punctured torso and walls with blood on them. The Afghan official's conclusion that the bullets were removed is based on the testimony of survivors, analysis of the photographs and the missing bullets.

Nato promised a joint forensic investigation in a statement issued after the raid, but Rear Admiral Greg Smith, the coalition's director of communications in Afghanistan, said that this had proved impossible because the bodies were buried the same day in accordance with Islamic custom.

Instead Afghanistan's Ministry of Interior sent its top criminal investigator from Kabul, and a Canadian brigadier-general led a separate military inquiry.

The Afghan investigation differed in one respect from The Times' findings. Survivors told this newspaper that Saranwal Zahir, the police officer's brother, was shot when he tried to shout that his family was innocent. The women, who were crouching behind him, were killed in the same volley of fire. Afghan investigators believe that Mr Zahir was carrying an AK47 and wanted to avenge his brother's killers. The women were clustered around him, trying to pull him inside the house, when the second US gunman opened fire, killing all four of them.

Footage collected by the Afghan team also shows a man in United States Army uniform taking pictures of the bodies. The findings have not been made public. The Interior Ministry is expected to pass a report to the Attorney-General's office, which will decide whether or not it can press criminal charges.

The family had more than 25 guests on the night of the attack, as well as three musicians, to celebrate the naming of a newborn child.

"In what culture in the world do you invite ... people for a party and meanwhile kill three women?" asked the senior official. "The dead bodies were just eight metres from where they were preparing the food. The Americans, they told us the women were dead for 14 hours."

In a statement yesterday, Brigadier-General Eric Tremblay, a Nato spokesman, said: "We deeply regret the outcome of this operation, accept responsibility for our actions that night, and know that this loss will be felt forever by the families.

"The force went to the compound based on reliable information in search of a Taleban insurgent, and believed that the two men posed a threat to their personal safety. We now understand that the men killed were only trying to protect their families."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 06, 2010, 02:15:46 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2010, 01:31:08 AM
Did anyone see this video that has appeared showing US troops in Bagdad killing unarmed civilians,
including 2 Reuters press men.

Listen to them laugh at the sight of dead men, and show no mercy for children caught up in the attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaqY12VHFv4

Murder pure and simple >:(...... ....and some on here wonder why there is so much hatred for America ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 06, 2010, 04:23:52 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 06, 2010, 02:15:46 PM

Murder pure and simple >:(...... ....and some on here wonder why there is so much hatred for America ::)

Hedley- do you really think this is an issue because the soldiers are American, or is it because they are soldiers that have been in a war zone for so long with no chance of winning and completely ignored their orders- yes murder- I dont know how you can say its because they are americans. Soldiers in every war zone in the history of war have committed what can perceived as an attrocity.

Americans are a convenient target for many
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 06, 2010, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 03, 2010, 08:52:12 PM
J70, not sure on this but you will probably end up as my friend mentioned above had to do,  he negotiated with the hospital. As I said the cost is where the problem lies over here, the care itself is very good.
What I forgot to add when referring to the cost here is that $650 a month was in addition to what the employer has to pay so you are close to $1500 for the month for health insurance, the cost is crippling families and employers alike.

I think this is one of the issues that we havent really talked about here. the cost of health care has such an impact on families that many simply opt out of paying it, and depending on how easy it is to sue a heathcare provider (doctor hospital nurse etc) in your state, the cost can spiral. I know that my payments for healthcare are significantly higher than those quoted above.

There is the concept of duty of care here in New York which means that any hospital must provide the care necessary to stabilize a patient- in many cases this means that the patient will then be transferred to another health care provider.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2010, 04:43:08 PM
how are things in the u s of a ?

are change
hope
etc etc still wowing people ?


I expect theres full employment by now

good to see the nasdaq and dow back to pre-collapse levels this past couple of months at least
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 06, 2010, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 06, 2010, 04:38:14 PM
There is the concept of duty of care here in New York which means that any hospital must provide the care necessary to stabilize a patient- in many cases this means that the patient will then be transferred to another health care provider.

There is a requirement on almost all hospitals to provide emergency treatment (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act)). However as you mention it only requires treatment until they are stable. "A patient is defined as "stable," therefore ending a hospital's EMTALA obligations, if: ...Any conditions that are immediately life-threatening, limb-threatening, or organ-threatening have been treated to the best of the hospital's ability"

This only covers a small percentage of medical treatment ie. stuff that would have you going straight to the ER rather than your GP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 06, 2010, 06:01:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2010, 04:43:08 PM
how are things in the u s of a ?

are change
hope
etc etc still wowing people ?


I expect theres full employment by now

good to see the nasdaq and dow back to pre-collapse levels this past couple of months at least
Yes LB, unfortunately there are still an astronomical number of sheep that are s t i l l  buying his crap,
Though there is a remarked reduction in Obama / Biden '08 bumper stickers on the freeways here I have to say so who knows, the blinkers could be slipping.
As for the unemployment numbers....if truth be told we're probably closer to twice the 9.7%
that the media are pedaling, but sure whatever it takes to keep the dream alive! ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 06, 2010, 06:06:11 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 06, 2010, 04:23:52 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 06, 2010, 02:15:46 PM

Murder pure and simple >:(...... ....and some on here wonder why there is so much hatred for America ::)

Hedley- do you really think this is an issue because the soldiers are American, or is it because they are soldiers that have been in a war zone for so long with no chance of winning and completely ignored their orders- yes murder- I dont know how you can say its because they are americans. Soldiers in every war zone in the history of war have committed what can perceived as an attrocity.

Americans are a convenient target for many
Its an issue because it is murder, and they did not ignore orders, they asked for permission to engage and were given the green light.....the fact that those on the apache helicopter could not tell the difference between a camera and an RPG beggars belief.
The fact that Americans are a convenient target for many.....your words.....is because of their behaviour and the cover ups.
Do you believe the people of Iraq or Afghanistan are better off now than before American interference?   

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: longrunsthefox on April 06, 2010, 06:14:14 PM
This is no surprise. These murders are probably a regular occurance. Is like the LAPD beating Rodney King..  the only shock was the cameras caught it.  It happened all the time. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 06, 2010, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on April 06, 2010, 06:14:14 PM
This is no surprise. These murders are probably a regular occurance. Is like the LAPD beating Rodney King..  the only shock was the cameras caught it.  It happened all the time.

Yes but it's Obama's fault. See above....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 06, 2010, 08:28:15 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 06, 2010, 06:06:11 PM

The fact that Americans are a convenient target for many.....your words.....is because of their behaviour and the cover ups.


Murder- see for example:
British in any country in the "empire" (including the colonies)
Germans in any country they occupied in WWII
Dutch in Africa
French in Northern Africa
Japanese in WWII
Belgians in the congo
Russians in the USSR etc
The Crusades

behaviour and cover ups- see above


QuoteDo you believe the people of Iraq or Afghanistan are better off now than before American interference?

Dont know- haven't been in touch with many iraqis or afghanis that have been under both regimes- those that were under the previous that I do know swear it couldnt have been worse- but as always that is the immigrants curse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 06, 2010, 10:40:57 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 06, 2010, 06:06:11 PM
Do you believe the people of Iraq or Afghanistan are better off now than before American interference?

Dead Iraqi Would Have Loved Democracy (http://www.theonion.com/articles/dead-iraqi-would-have-loved-democracy,1421/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on April 06, 2010, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 06, 2010, 10:40:57 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 06, 2010, 06:06:11 PM
Do you believe the people of Iraq or Afghanistan are better off now than before American interference?

Dead Iraqi Would Have Loved Democracy (http://www.theonion.com/articles/dead-iraqi-would-have-loved-democracy,1421/)

Was about to post along those lines. There definitely about 100k people for whom the pre-invasion situation was infinitely better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 06, 2010, 11:02:17 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on April 06, 2010, 10:57:31 PM
There definitely about 100k people for whom the pre-invasion situation was infinitely better.

They must have all hated freedom
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on April 06, 2010, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 06, 2010, 06:01:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2010, 04:43:08 PM
how are things in the u s of a ?

are change
hope
etc etc still wowing people ?


I expect theres full employment by now

good to see the nasdaq and dow back to pre-collapse levels this past couple of months at least
Yes LB, unfortunately there are still an astronomical number of sheep that are s t i l l  buying his crap,
Though there is a remarked reduction in Obama / Biden '08 bumper stickers on the freeways here I have to say so who knows, the blinkers could be slipping.
As for the unemployment numbers....if truth be told we're probably closer to twice the 9.7%
that the media are pedaling, but sure whatever it takes to keep the dream alive! ::)

But surely for a Rep the only valid reason they have no job is cos they are lazy no?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 06, 2010, 11:21:52 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on April 06, 2010, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 06, 2010, 06:01:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2010, 04:43:08 PM
how are things in the u s of a ?

are change
hope
etc etc still wowing people ?


I expect theres full employment by now

good to see the nasdaq and dow back to pre-collapse levels this past couple of months at least
Yes LB, unfortunately there are still an astronomical number of sheep that are s t i l l  buying his crap,
Though there is a remarked reduction in Obama / Biden '08 bumper stickers on the freeways here I have to say so who knows, the blinkers could be slipping.
As for the unemployment numbers....if truth be told we're probably closer to twice the 9.7%
that the media are pedaling, but sure whatever it takes to keep the dream alive! ::)

But surely for a Rep the only valid reason they have no job is cos they are lazy no?

And of course the right wing was using the "real" indicators of unemployment under Bush in 2008 and way back when, under Reagan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 07, 2010, 12:48:14 AM
Quote
And of course the right wing was using the "real" indicators of unemployment under Bush in 2008 and way back when, under Reagan.
Ah ..don't be at it J, surely you remember the fear mongering speech of where we were headed if we didn't act...NOW!
..Anyway here's a short reminder below of where I'm coming from and honestly, I'd say mission accomplished for each of the points he made,
we are exactly where he promised we wouldn't be if.................................
I'm not sure but I think this takes Bush and or Reagan ::) out of the equation on this particular issue simply because this was his fix to the last 8 years *yawn*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlqiCpgW650
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 07, 2010, 04:39:09 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 07, 2010, 12:48:14 AM
Quote
And of course the right wing was using the "real" indicators of unemployment under Bush in 2008 and way back when, under Reagan.
Ah ..don't be at it J, surely you remember the fear mongering speech of where we were headed if we didn't act...NOW!
..Anyway here's a short reminder below of where I'm coming from and honestly, I'd say mission accomplished for each of the points he made,
we are exactly where he promised we wouldn't be if.................................
I'm not sure but I think this takes Bush and or Reagan ::) out of the equation on this particular issue simply because this was his fix to the last 8 years *yawn*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlqiCpgW650

I didn't comment on the numbers themselves, although the upward trend appears to have ended, thankfully, and hopefully for good in terms of the current recession. The point was that all of a sudden the run-of-the-mill accepted indicators are somehow deceitful! Was that not your implication?

Whether or not things would have been much worse and the recession seriously extended without Obama's actions last year (and Bush's just before that), I have no idea, but I certainly am not going to just accept the speculations of those who are virulently ill-disposed towards him to begin with. Maybe things would be no worse, but then maybe they'd be a lot worse! People knew the stimulus was coming when he was elected and he'll live or die by how its turning out in two and half year's time.

But as for the fear mongering, yes, all politicians do the hard sell. I hope you're as offended the next time some chickenhawk right wing politicians or talk radio hosts are beating the drums about going to war (mushroom cloud in 45 minutes!) at the same time they're denigrating some liberal (or dissenting moderate among their own) who actually had the balls to wear the uniform into battle.

But we've been over this ground numerous times before. You know where I stand. I fully accept that there are idiots and hypocrites among the Democratic representation, just like the Republicans (I presume you didn't post links to the other embarrassing politician from Georgia to go viral recently, the "war between the states/war of yankee aggression" Republican - Braun or Broun I think?). But as long as the Republicans are hostage to the right wing social/anti-environmental/anti-worker/consumer safety agenda, they are never getting my vote, nationally (there are some sane Republicans here in the Northeast I can safely vote for locally! ;)). The national Republican party have made it clear over the past year that they have no place for and do not want someone with my views, even if I might have sympathies for some of the positions of some of their saner members on economic issues. The Democrats have plenty of faults, but its still about the lesser of two evils. If you can't respect that, I don't give a shit, and a sheep I certainly am not. So unless you've something new and interesting to add, I am not getting sucked into another endless, futile back-and-forth over issues we've covered ten times before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 08:39:30 AM
Quote from: deiseach on April 06, 2010, 11:02:17 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on April 06, 2010, 10:57:31 PM
There definitely about 100k people for whom the pre-invasion situation was infinitely better.

They must have all hated freedom

Source Iraqi casualties March 2003 to...
Iraq Family Health Survey 151,000 violent deaths. June 2006
Lancet survey 601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths. June 2006
Opinion Research Business survey 1,033,000 violent deaths as a result of the conflict. August 2007
Associated Press 110,600 violent deaths April 2009
Iraq Body Count 94,902 – 103,549 violent civilian deaths as a result of the conflict. December 2009

Freedom American style :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 12:10:46 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 08:39:30 AM

Freedom American style :o

and your suggested alternative is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 07, 2010, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 12:10:46 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 08:39:30 AM

Freedom American style :o

and your suggested alternative is?

Given the current dispensation, the Americans are probably doing much as I would do if I were king / president - managing the situation and plotting an exit strategy. I'd probably be more aggressive in terms of setting a timetable for withdrawal.

If I had a time machine, I'd go back and stop the invasion. And yes, that means I'd leave Saddam in place. The price in blood and treasure has not been worth it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 12:10:46 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 08:39:30 AM

Freedom American style :o

and your suggested alternative is?
Leave things alone that do not concern you(America).....WMD ....regime change.....bull..... can't wait for the good old US of A to do the same in North Korea and Iran ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 05:21:19 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 12:10:46 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 08:39:30 AM

Freedom American style :o

and your suggested alternative is?
Leave things alone that do not concern you(America).....WMD ....regime change.....bull..... can't wait for the good old US of A to do the same in North Korea and Iran ::)

Definitely a fair point- let me ask at what point do you make the decision that things do concern you?

I for one am no fan of what I view as an invasion of Iraq, however every sovereign nation has the duty/right of self defence.

At what point did the UK/ USA in WWII make the decision that happening in Germany did concern them- or in that case would you advocate that they had left well enough alone?

At some point (and again not advocating that that point was reached in Iraq) a nation's government may well decide that actions elsewhere are of concern to the security of the nation or its citizens and should act accordingly (and proportionally).


At some point you must decide that things do concern you, quoting Martin Niemöller :

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:32:54 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 05:21:19 PM

At some point you must decide that things do concern you, quoting Martin Niemöller :

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

Was he a Democrat?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 05:52:11 PM
I believe he was an anti communist christian Pastor....

Though fox "news" would have him as a democraat :-)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 12:10:46 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 08:39:30 AM

Freedom American style :o

and your suggested alternative is?
Leave things alone that do not concern you(America).....WMD ....regime change.....bull..... can't wait for the good old US of A to do the same in North Korea and Iran ::)

you prefer the russian style? or maybe the chinese? youd be speaking german if it wasn't for freedom american style
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 07, 2010, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 12:10:46 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 08:39:30 AM

Freedom American style :o

and your suggested alternative is?
Leave things alone that do not concern you(America).....WMD ....regime change.....bull..... can't wait for the good old US of A to do the same in North Korea and Iran ::)

you prefer the russian style? or maybe the chinese? youd be speaking german if it wasn't for freedom american style

We already speak a foreign invaders language, one that committed genocide here. Why is english better than german?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 07, 2010, 12:10:46 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 07, 2010, 08:39:30 AM

Freedom American style :o

and your suggested alternative is?
Leave things alone that do not concern you(America).....WMD ....regime change.....bull..... can't wait for the good old US of A to do the same in North Korea and Iran ::)

you prefer the russian style? or maybe the chinese? youd be speaking german if it wasn't for freedom american style

We already speak a foreign invaders language, one that committed genocide here. Why is english better than german?

feck off muppet, i was afraid someone was going to say that ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 07, 2010, 07:18:12 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
you prefer the russian style? or maybe the chinese? youd be speaking german if it wasn't for freedom american style

It was the Russians who made by far the greatest contribution to defeating Germany in the Second World / Great Patriotic War. So I suppose, by your own logic, what we have is freedom Russian style
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 07:32:45 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 07, 2010, 07:18:12 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
you prefer the russian style? or maybe the chinese? youd be speaking german if it wasn't for freedom american style

It was the Russians who made by far the greatest contribution to defeating Germany in the Second World / Great Patriotic War. So I suppose, by your own logic, what we have is freedom Russian style

tell me your joking? the russians were defending themselves, the 200,000 dead americans were defending europe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ardmhachaabu on April 07, 2010, 07:43:05 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 07:32:45 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 07, 2010, 07:18:12 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
you prefer the russian style? or maybe the chinese? youd be speaking german if it wasn't for freedom american style

It was the Russians who made by far the greatest contribution to defeating Germany in the Second World / Great Patriotic War. So I suppose, by your own logic, what we have is freedom Russian style

tell me your joking? the russians were defending themselves, the 200,000 dead americans were defending europe
Uh huh, Pearl Harbour had nothing to do with it, eh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 07, 2010, 07:44:22 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 07:32:45 PM
tell me your joking? the russians were defending themselves, the 200,000 dead americans were defending europe

I am not joking. 200,000 American dead versus 9,000,000 for the Soviet Union - and that's just soldiers. If you think the western Allies could have defeated Germany without that sacrifice, you have a strange sense of proportion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 07, 2010, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 07, 2010, 07:18:12 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 07, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
you prefer the russian style? or maybe the chinese? youd be speaking german if it wasn't for freedom american style

It was the Russians who made by far the greatest contribution to defeating Germany in the Second World / Great Patriotic War. So I suppose, by your own logic, what we have is freedom Russian style
Eastern Europe experienced "freedom Russian style" for about 45 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 07, 2010, 08:45:30 PM
Quote from: dec on April 07, 2010, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 07, 2010, 07:18:12 PM
It was the Russians who made by far the greatest contribution to defeating Germany in the Second World / Great Patriotic War. So I suppose, by your own logic, what we have is freedom Russian style
Eastern Europe experienced "freedom Russian style" for about 45 years.

Indeed. But hey, at least they weren't speaking German!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: redandblack4ever on April 08, 2010, 02:25:57 AM
I've just read this entire thread and I'm LMAO. You've got Tyrone's Own and that fool from Amargh, who don't have a clue about politics in the US. All the two of them spout is right wing bullshit straight from Faux News and their stables of clowns. Anyone in the US who has a inkling of what's going on, sure as hell wouldn't be getting their talking points from either the Republican Party or Faux News.

To the both of you, go out join the Teabaggers or the Repukes, I don't care which one you decide to join, but I willl say this to you both, have you ever thought in your lives, "there but for the grace of God, go I?"

My personal opinion of the Pukes and Teabaggers is this: "I got mine, so fcuk you." Selfishness and greed have overtaken some people in the USA. Most of the Teabaggers are old, white people who survive on Medicare (which by the way is a single-payer health system) and Social Security payments and their private pensions.(If they stilll have a retirement accout to fall back on; many people lost a awful lot of money when the market crashed in 2008). The rest of them are uneducated and ignorant cretins, who for the most part, are racists. Take a look at the spelling of some of the posters at their protests. They might speak a form of English but some of them sure can't spell for shite.

I don't understand why anyone who works for liiving, i.e. the building trades, laborers, etc. would even think about voting for a Repuke. As my late father always said "it's like the chickens voting for Colonel Sanders."

I have an opinion of these two fools on this board and believe me it's neither nice or politically correct. Listen guys, if you want to have any credibility with me, don't populate a thread with talking points that come straight from Faux News or from the latest e-mail from the RNC.

Mrs. redandblack4ever
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 08, 2010, 02:51:03 AM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on April 08, 2010, 02:25:57 AM
I've just read this entire thread and I'm LMAO. You've got Tyrone's Own and that fool from Amargh, who don't have a clue about politics in the US. All the two of them spout is right wing bullshit straight from Faux News and their stables of clowns. Anyone in the US who has a inkling of what's going on, sure as hell wouldn't be getting their talking points from either the Republican Party or Faux News.

To the both of you, go out join the Teabaggers or the Repukes, I don't care which one you decide to join, but I willl say this to you both, have you ever thought in your lives, "there but for the grace of God, go I?"

My personal opinion of the Pukes and Teabaggers is this: "I got mine, so fcuk you." Selfishness and greed have overtaken some people in the USA. Most of the Teabaggers are old, white people who survive on Medicare (which by the way is a single-payer health system) and Social Security payments and their private pensions.(If they stilll have a retirement accout to fall back on; many people lost a awful lot of money when the market crashed in 2008). The rest of them are uneducated and ignorant cretins, who for the most part, are racists. Take a look at the spelling of some of the posters at their protests. They might speak a form of English but some of them sure can't spell for shite.

I don't understand why anyone who works for liiving, i.e. the building trades, laborers, etc. would even think about voting for a Repuke. As my late father always said "it's like the chickens voting for Colonel Sanders."

I have an opinion of these two fools on this board and believe me it's neither nice or politically correct. Listen guys, if you want to have any credibility with me, don't populate a thread with talking points that come straight from Faux News or from the latest e-mail from the RNC.

Mrs. redandblack4ever

:D :D Fcuk lads we have nancy herself on here :o
But seriously, who in the fcuk do you think you are......I'd tell ye what to do with your elitist point of view but it wouldn't be nice
nor politically correct :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 08, 2010, 06:07:06 PM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on April 08, 2010, 02:25:57 AM
I've just read this entire thread and I'm LMAO. You've got Tyrone's Own and that fool from Amargh, who don't have a clue about politics in the US. All the two of them spout is right wing bullshit straight from Faux News and their stables of clowns. Anyone in the US who has a inkling of what's going on, sure as hell wouldn't be getting their talking points from either the Republican Party or Faux News.

To the both of you, go out join the Teabaggers or the Repukes, I don't care which one you decide to join, but I willl say this to you both, have you ever thought in your lives, "there but for the grace of God, go I?"

My personal opinion of the Pukes and Teabaggers is this: "I got mine, so fcuk you." Selfishness and greed have overtaken some people in the USA. Most of the Teabaggers are old, white people who survive on Medicare (which by the way is a single-payer health system) and Social Security payments and their private pensions.(If they stilll have a retirement accout to fall back on; many people lost a awful lot of money when the market crashed in 2008). The rest of them are uneducated and ignorant cretins, who for the most part, are racists. Take a look at the spelling of some of the posters at their protests. They might speak a form of English but some of them sure can't spell for shite.

I don't understand why anyone who works for liiving, i.e. the building trades, laborers, etc. would even think about voting for a Repuke. As my late father always said "it's like the chickens voting for Colonel Sanders."

I have an opinion of these two fools on this board and believe me it's neither nice or politically correct. Listen guys, if you want to have any credibility with me, don't populate a thread with talking points that come straight from Faux News or from the latest e-mail from the RNC.

Mrs. redandblack4ever

Great discussion piece- thanks...

But Im not sure that your credibility is what anyone is seeking and that post probably not going to entice anyone into 'fair and balanced"discussion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 13, 2010, 05:24:14 AM


Got this email this morning and thought I'd share it;
                                                                      Divorce agreement

            Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al:

            We have stuck together since the late 1950's or the sake of the kids, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce.... I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course.

            Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.

            Here is a model separation agreement:

            Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.

            We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU. Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military.  We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and you can go with wind, solar and biodiesel.  You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O'Donnell (You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them).

            We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street. You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless, homeboys, hippies, druggies and illegal aliens. We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks. We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood .

            You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us. You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security.

            We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N.. but we will no longer be paying the bill.

            We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Subaru station wagon you can find.

            You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors.  We'll keep The Battle Hymn of the Republic and the National Anthem. I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute Imagine, I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing, Kum Ba Ya or We Are the World.

            We'll practice trickle down economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot.

     

        Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our flag. 

        Would you agree to this?  If so, please pass it along to other like minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you Answer which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.

        Sincerely,
        John J. Wall
        Law Student and an American

        P. S. Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin Sheen, Barbara Streisand, & Jane Fonda with you.

        P. S. S.  And you won't have to press 1 for English when you call our country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 13, 2010, 08:56:57 AM

The Israeli Army's plan to deport tens of thousands of Palestinians from the West Bank is both inhuman and illegal.

It is also highly provocative and could reignite the intifada. This, of course, would suit the Netanyahu government very well, since once more, even the indirect peace talks with the Palestinians would be back on hold and Israel could protest yet again that its security was threatened by "terrorist violence."

How much longer is the international community going to sit by and allow the illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, the economic blockade of Gaza and the subjugation of the already wretched Palestinian population? This latest enormity by the Israeli authorities involves a deft adjustment to an existing military order drawn up in 1969 which empowers the army to expel what it is pleased to call "infiltrators."

A new definition of "infiltrator" will embrace anyone living in the West Bank who has not been issued with a permit by the Israeli authorities.

Potentially tens of thousands of Palestinians could fall victim to this sly maneuver, splitting families and further disrupting what passes for economic life in the occupied West Bank.

Introducing a layer of judicial oversight to the deportation process is merely a smoke screen to cover the blatant illegality of the whole procedure. The military is already empowered to throw a Palestinian out of Palestine within 72 hours, hardly time enough to mount a proper legal appeal.

Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator, is entirely right when he drew the comparison with the apartheid regime in white-run South Africa. There if a person did not have the necessary passbook, he/she was expelled even from their ancestral lands. Even though Israel had extensive clandestine relations, particularly military, with the white South African regime, it publicly condemned the enormity of apartheid. Now it is embracing it with open arms.

This latest contemptible move is unlikely to play well in the Obama White House. It may indeed be a signal that relations between the president and Netanyahu are even more strained than was at first appreciated. Washington simply has to take a stand on this. Whatever Israel's security concerns, there can be no grounds for what is little short of ethnic cleansing. Obama needs to understand that Israel simply does not want peace, because ever since its creation in 1948, this state has survived on a war footing.

Zionists around the world pour money into Israel so it can maintain what it calls its defensive posture. American aid and technology underpin a relatively small and fragile economy. Lasting peace based on a just settlement for the Palestinians, therefore, holds unknown risks for the Israelis. They understand aggression. They do not understand peace.

So once again, an Israeli government is poking the Palestinian beehive, hoping for an angry swarm to react, which it can then swat with its vastly greater firepower.

But maybe this time they have gone too far. How can it ever be said that Palestinians have entered their own land illegally? The real illegal infiltrators in the West Bank are actually the Israelis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on April 13, 2010, 09:41:50 AM
Hedley, this new law is just something else. One more piece of evidence to show just how Israhell have turned into an Apartheid state.
Where are they going to deport the Palestinians to? Or maybe they will just shoot them, like they have been doing for years anyway? Deport native Palestinians, and at the same time allow over 500,000 illegal settlers, mainly young Jewish US citizens, to live in the West Bank?

But hey, as long as there are stupid US senators and congressmen, (and eejits like to), Israhell will have an endless supply of weapons, cash, aircraft, bombs and bullets to slaughter and ethnicially cleanse Palestinians and steal more of their land.

Plus, this week, Wikileaks are to release another video showing US troops slaughter 87 innocent Afghans. Wonder what sort of deluded immature response the US and to will come out with to justify it?

Oh, the land of the free and the home of the brave........ US troops, very brave individuals indeed.....
The world sure is a safer place when they are in control. Lets see how brave they are if they attemp another illegal war in Iran?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on April 13, 2010, 09:48:39 AM
A Sign of Empire Pathology

More US military personnel have taken their OWN lives than have died in action

Here is a shocking statistic that you won't hear in most western news media: over the past nine years, more US military personnel have taken their own lives than have died in action in either the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. These are official figures from the US Department of Defence, yet somehow they have not been deemed newsworthy to report. Last year alone, more than 330 serving members of the US armed forces committed suicide - more than the 320 killed in Afghanistan and the 150 who fell in Iraq (see wsws.org).



Since 2001, when Washington launched its so-called war on terror, there has been a dramatic year-on-year increase in US military suicides, particularly in the army, which has borne the brunt of fighting abroad. Last year saw the highest total number since such records began in 1980. Prior to 2001, the suicide rate in the US military was lower than that for the general US population; now, it is nearly double the national average.



A growing number of these victims have been deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan. What these figures should tell us is that there is something fundamentally deranged about Washington's "war on terror" - which is probably why western news media prefer to ignore the issue. How damning is it about such military campaigns that the number of US soldiers who take their own lives outnumber those killed by enemy combatants.



What is even more disturbing is that the official figures only count victims of suicide among serving personnel. Not included are the many more veterans - officially classed a civilians - who take their own lives.



Most likely, these deaths are reported in some small-town newspaper in "a brief" news item with no context or background as to what drove these individuals to take their own lives. It is estimated that the suicide rate among veterans demobbed from fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq is as high as four times the national average. The US Department of Veteran Affairs calculates that over 6,000 former service personnel commit suicide every year.



Many of these men have come home to a country they have fought for only to find no jobs, their homes repossessed by banks that have enjoyed trillion-dollar bailouts and broken relationships.



Meanwhile, President Obama - the erstwhile peace candidate - has taken on the role of Commander in Chief with gusto, telling his countrymen and women that they are fighting a "just war" to "defend American lives". Only a year ago, he was campaigning for the presidency on a ticket to end such wars. Now, more than his predecessor, George W Bush, Obama is committing to wars without end. How soul-destroying is that for a grunt holed up in a bunker, with his young family back home probably telling him that they have just signed up for food stamps? In their guts, these US soldiers must know - as many other ordinary people around the world do - that these wars are nothing but a desperate, pathological bid by a dying power to salvage its crumbling empire - an empire that enriches a tiny elite and impoverishes the majority. Is it any wonder that many of them simply lose the will to live?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on April 13, 2010, 09:55:40 AM
Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld Knew They Were Innocent
by Andrew Sullivan
The inmates at Gitmo were routinely referred to as "the worst of the worst." Rumsfeld, Bush and Cheney all knowingly pushed this lie. And it was a lie - because they all knew that the chaotic way in which these terror suspects had been captured had left such esoteric questions as innocence or guilt by the wayside.

In a March 24 legal declaration in the Hamdi case, a first-hand eye-witness to the Bush-Cheney administration's contempt for due process and embrace of torture, stated under oath what he saw on the inside. The statement - widely covered across the world - was largely ignored by the US Mainstream Media.

But it's devastating to have a former high Bush-Cheney official state under oath that the last administration knew it had countless innocent prisoners, lied about it, and tortured many. Lawrence Wilkerson, former secretary of state Colin Powell's chief of staff, is the man putting the record straight. Money quote:

In fact, by late August 2002, I found that of the initial 742 detainees that had arrived at Guantánamo, the majority of them had never seen a U.S. soldier in the process of their initial detention and their captivity had not been subjected to any meaningful review. A separate but related problem was that often absolutely no evidence relating to the detainee was turned over, so there was no real method of knowing why the prisoner had been detained in the first place.   Secretary Powell was also trying to bring pressure to bear regarding a number of specific detentions because children as young as 12 and 13 and elderly as old as 92 or 93 had been shipped to Guantánamo...

During the morning briefings, Ambassador at-Large for War Crimes, Pierre Prosper, who was a primary person working on negotiating transfers, would discuss the difficulty he encountered in dealing with the Department of Defense, and specifically Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, who just refused to let detainees go.

I came to understand that there were several different reasons for the refusal to release detainees in Guantánamo, even those who were likely innocent. These reasons continued to the time of my departure from the Department of State in 2005. At least part of the problem was that it was politically impossible to release them. The concern expressed was that if they were released to another country, even an ally such as the United Kingdom, the leadership of the Defense Department would be left without any plausible explanation to the American people, whether the released detainee was subsequently found to be innocent by the receiving country, or whether the detainee was truly a terrorist and, upon release were it to then occur, would return to the war against the U.S.

Another concern was that the detention efforts at Guantánamo would be revealed as the incredibly confused operation that they were.   Such results were not acceptable to the Administration and would have been severely detrimental to the leadership at DOD.

Another part of the political dilemma originated in the Office of Vice President Richard B. Cheney, whose position could be summed up as "the end justifies the means", and who had absolutely no concern that the vast majority of Guantánamo detainees were innocent, or that there was a lack of any useable evidence for the great majority of them. If hundreds of innocent individuals had to suffer in order to detain a handful of hardcore terrorists, so be it.   That seemed to be the philosophy that ruled in the Vice President's Office.

I discussed the issue of the Guantánamo detainees with Secretary Powell. From these discussions, I learned that it was his view that it was not just Vice President Cheney and Secretary Rumsfeld, but also President Bush who was involved in all of the Guantánamo decision making. My own view is that it was easy for Vice President Cheney to run circles around President Bush bureaucratically because Cheney had the network within the government to do so. Moreover, by exploiting what Secretary Powell called the President's "cowboy instincts," Vice President Cheney could more often than not gain the President's acquiescence.

Lie after lie after lie. And the illegal imprisonment and torture of individuals often completely unrelated to terrorism at all. And no accountability. This was America for almost eight years. And Obama has perpetuated the avoidance of responsibility with staggering diligence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on April 13, 2010, 10:03:00 AM
A couple of must see video's exposing what Israhell/US troops get up to in Palestine.
This is what US taxpayers fund and support.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=player_embedded#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm_btvBgZLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT1AuJf4ZJ0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on April 13, 2010, 10:15:44 AM
US war crimes in Iraq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AXN3H3BPQU

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on April 13, 2010, 08:11:20 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 13, 2010, 05:24:14 AM


Got this email this morning and thought I'd share it;
                                                                      Divorce agreement

            Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al:

            We have stuck together since the late 1950's or the sake of the kids, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce.... I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course.

            Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.

            Here is a model separation agreement:

            Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.

            We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU. Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military.  We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and you can go with wind, solar and biodiesel.  You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O'Donnell (You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them).

            We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street. You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless, homeboys, hippies, druggies and illegal aliens. We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks. We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood .

            You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us. You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security.

            We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N.. but we will no longer be paying the bill.

            We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Subaru station wagon you can find.

            You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors.  We'll keep The Battle Hymn of the Republic and the National Anthem. I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute Imagine, I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing, Kum Ba Ya or We Are the World.

            We'll practice trickle down economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot.

     

        Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our flag. 

        Would you agree to this?  If so, please pass it along to other like minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you Answer which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.

        Sincerely,
        John J. Wall
        Law Student and an American

        P. S. Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin Sheen, Barbara Streisand, & Jane Fonda with you.

        P. S. S.  And you won't have to press 1 for English when you call our country.

You are a scary individual.

That e-mail sums up how morally bankrupt the republican philosophy is.

Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military.
We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street
We'll keep the Bibles
we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us.
We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.
We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them.
We'll practice trickle down economics.

What you are pretty much saying is we (the rich, elite, morally upstanding members of the community) will keep hold of Walmart and Waitrose, 'the greedy corporations' and make billions every year and we don't want to pay tax on these profits, the ordinary people will get a trickle down effect from all our wealth by working in our stores for the minimum wage but won't be able to afford to go to the hospital if e.g. you are a young mother and were to find you had a lump on your breast.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 13, 2010, 08:40:08 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 13, 2010, 05:24:14 AM
            We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street.

The poor fool who wrote this probably doesn't even realise that Wall Street is in blue state New York. And that most of the headquarters of major corporations are in blue states. And that most of the high tech innovation comes from blue states. And that most of the red states that would end up in this Redneckistan are net beneficiaries from the federal government (more federal spending from the government than taxes to the government) whereas the Democrat voting states are net contributors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on April 14, 2010, 01:06:42 AM
Your Tax Dollars at War:
More Than 53% of Your Tax Payment Goes to the Military

By Dave Lindorff'

If you're like me, now that we're in the week that federal income taxes are due, you are finally starting to collect your records and prepare for the ordeal. Either way, whether you are a procrastinator like me, or have already finished and know how much you have paid to the government, it is a good time to stop and consider how much of your money goes to pay for our bloated and largely useless and pointless military.

The budget for the 2011 fiscal year, which has to be voted by Congress by this Oct. 1, looks to be about $3 trillion, not counting the funds collected for Social Security (since the Vietnam War, the government has included the Social Security Trust Fund in the budget as a way to make the cost of America's imperial military adventures seem smaller in comparison to the total cost of government). Meanwhile, the military share of the budget works out to about $1.6 trillion.

That figure includes the Pentagon budget request of $717 billion, plus an estimated $200 billion in supplemental funding (called "overseas contingency funding" in euphemistic White House-speak), to fund the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, some $40 billion or more in "black box" intelligence agency funding, $94 billion in non-DOD military spending (that would include stuff like military activies funded through NASA, military spending by the State Department, etc., miilitary-related activities within the Dept. of Homeland Security, etc.), $123 billion in veterans benefits and health care spending, and $400 billion in interest on debt raised to pay for prior wars and the standing military during peacetime (whatever that is!).

The 2011 military budget, by the way, is the largest in history, not just in actual dollars, but in inflation-adjusted dollars, exceeding even the spending in World War II, when the nation was on an all-out war footing.

This military spending in all its myriad forms works out to represent 53% of total US federal spending.

It's also a military budget that is rising at a faster pace than any other part of the budget (with the possible exception of bailing out crooked Wall Street financial firms and their managers). For the past decade, and continuing under the present administration, military budgets have been rising at a 9% annual clip, making health care inflation look tiny by comparison.

US military spending isn't just half of the US budget, though. It is also half of the entire global spending on war and weaponry. In 2009, according to the venerable War Resisters League, US military spending accounted for 47% of all money spent globally on war, weapons and military preparedness (it's probably closer to 50% now). What makes that staggering figure particularly ridiculous is that America's allies--countries like France, Britain, Germany, Italy, and Japan--account for another 21% of the world's military spending. Fully 12 of the top-spenders among big military-spending nations are either allies of the US, or are friendly or completely non-threatening countries like Brazil and India. That is to say, America and its friends and allies account for more than two-thirds of all military spending worldwide.

China, in contrast, probably the closest thing to a real "threat" to American interests because of America's treaty commitments to the island nation of Taiwan, and China's counter claim that the island is a part of the PRC, spends only some $130 billion on its military, much of which is actually devoted to maintaining military control over the country's own 1.3 billion people, some of whom might prefer to be independent, or to be freer, if they weren't under the military jack-boot.

The next biggest military spender, Russia, spends less than $80 billion a year on its decrepit military--about one-twentieth of what the US spends--and isn't even technically an enemy of the America anymore. Its military is largely busy keeping restive regions from spinning off from the mother country, anyhow.

Meanwhile Iran, which the White House and Congress are portraying as America's arch enemy, despite its not having invaded another country in hundreds of years, isn't even on the list of the top 17 military big-spenders. Iran's current military budget is a teensy $4.8 billion (no surprise since its economy is about equal to Finland's), about the same as the estimated $5 billion spent on the military by North Korea--America's other "major enemy." Each of those country's military budgets is about one-quarter of the military budget of Australia. Combined, they add up to about two thirds of the military budget of the Netherlands.

Just to give one an idea of how small $4.8 billion is in comparison to the $1.6 trillion that the US is spending each year on war and planning for war, that number is roughly what the Pentagon plans to spend over the next year on childcare and youth programs, morale and recreation programs and commissaries on its bases! It's about what the Pentagon will spend acquiring replacement Seahawk, Chinook and Blackhawk helicopters this year.

For the average American, what all this means is that of every dollar you send to the IRS, 53 cents will be going to pay for blowing stuff up, fattening the wallets of colonels admirals and generals, bloating the portfolios of investors in military industries, and of course funding the bonuses paid to executives of those companies, and the campaign chests and private expense accounts of the members of Congress who vote for these outlandish budgets. Your money will also be going to pay for the salaries and the bullets of those brave heroes over in Afghanistan who are executing kids, killing pregnant women (and then digging out the bullets and claiming they were stabbed by their families), and for the anti-personnel weapons that are creating legions of legless Afghani kids.

Next time you hear that the government needs to cut funds for providing medical care to the children of laid-off workers, or that supplemental unemployment funds are running out, next time you hear that federal funds that are needed to fund extra teachers at your school are being cut, or that Social Security benefits need to be cut back, or the retirement age needs to be increased to 70, next time you hear that your local post office has to be shut down for lack of funds, next time you hear that Medicare benefits need to be reduced, think about that 53% of your tax payment that is going to finance the most enormous war machine the world has ever known.

And ask yourself: Is this really necessary? Is this really where I want my money going? Is this really even making me safer or my country stronger?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on April 16, 2010, 02:41:45 AM
Did my taxes yesterday. Biggest refund ever. And there was me worried that the commie ba$tid Obama would keep it all to fund his death camps.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 16, 2010, 08:06:27 PM
tyrone's own- if that were the terms of the divorce agreement I'd still take them.

I'm assuming we get the african americans- the immigrants, silicon valley, the garden state, the wine and beer of oregon, washington and california, you can have DC and the military budget- keep all the corn thanks. we'll keep the good schools, the co-ops, health care, the jobs, the creativity, the entrepreneurs, and it'll all be fine until we beat you in every sport and then you'll invade because our energy costs nothing because we aren't getting green technology squashed by your fat cats and you're running out of oil from your hot hockey mom's home state. And our heath care costs will be way lower because you won't be able to sue our providers and big pharma won't rape us for their profit margins.
Looking forward to it, now what'll we do with the kids and the music collection?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 17, 2010, 08:48:35 AM
Netanyahu must show sincerity on peace, says Clinton
By AGENCIES

Published: Apr 16, 2010 20:34 Updated: Apr 16, 2010 20:34

WASHINGTON: Frustrated by more than a year of intense but failed diplomatic efforts to get Israel and the Palestinians to restart stalled peace negotiations, the Obama administration is turning up pressure on Israel to resume peace talks with Palestinians.

In a speech marking the opening a new Middle East think tank Thursday, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton called Thursday on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to prove his commitment to a Palestinian state, warning that prolonged conflict only strengthened extremists.

Speaking at a dinner attended by the ambassadors of Israel and several Arab states, Clinton was forthright in her demands of Netanyahu, urging Israel to "refrain from unilateral statements and actions" that could undermine peace.

"Prime Minister Netanyahu has embraced the vision of the two-state solution," Clinton said.

"But easing up on access and movement in the West Bank, in response to credible Palestinian security performance, is not sufficient to prove to the Palestinians that this embrace is sincere," she said.

"We encourage Israel to continue building momentum toward a comprehensive peace by demonstrating respect for the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinians, stopping settlement activity and addressing the humanitarian needs in Gaza."

On a visit to Israel last month, Vice President Joe Biden was said to have argued that Middle East peace would help improve the safety of the tens of thousands of US troops stationed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Biden's trip turned into a fiasco when Israeli officials announced plans to build 1,600 Jewish settlements in annexed East Jerusalem while he was still on the visit. Clinton later called the Israeli move "insulting."

The Obama administration has come under harsh attack by some of Israel's supporters in Washington, who say that the United States is putting the Jewish state at risk. Representative Eric Cantor, the number two Republican in the House, said the White House "has applied a severe double standard that refuses to hold the Palestinians accountable for their many provocations."

"It makes one wonder — where the responsible adults are in the administration?" said Cantor, the only Jewish House member from the minority party.


Double standards indeed :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 17, 2010, 10:47:40 AM
Good to see Obama turn the screw on the Israelis. It may not seem like much, but in diplomatic terms it's a major policy shift and we can assume the pressure behind closed doors is of a different order altogether to the public utterances. It's probably the one policy most likely to cause him to get a bullet, too. They're capable of anything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 19, 2010, 08:46:11 PM
Jordan's King Abdallah has recently disclosed that he believes an Israel-Hezbollah-Lebanon conflict is "imminent."

The fact that Israeli authorities are handing out gas masks and have launched a media campaign stressing their importance lends credibility to the monarch's chilling prediction.

Israel fears peace more than war. The Arab peace proposal is still on offer until July this year while US President Barack Obama is said to be working on a new "road map." But there is one major obstacle: Israel's right-wing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reluctantly pays lip service to the concept of a Palestinian state but, in reality, he isn't interested in exchanging occupied land for peace. And neither is he prepared to relinquish East Jerusalem to be the capital of a new Palestinian state.  It's a dangerous impasse that has frustrated Palestinian hopes to the extent some are calling for a third intifada, which would achieve nothing except bolstering the flagging Israeli narrative that Palestinians are "terrorists". 

If this slick-talking, uncompromising Zionist were to chance upon a genie-in-a-bottle, he would magic the Palestinians away. But since geniis are in short supply nowadays, he is intent on diminishing the Palestinian population with a military order declassifying Palestinians residents of the West Bank as infiltrators if they fail to produce valid permits. Those considered to be illegal residents will be criminalized and exposed to fines, imprisonment and deportation.

Once the Palestinian presence is suitably pruned, he would be amenable to a demilitarized noncontiguous Palestinian state that has no control over its borders, coastline or airspace; in other words, a sort of Greater Gaza where the population would exist or subsist according to an Israeli leader's whims.

Unfortunately for Netanyahu his game is up. President Obama sees through his foot-dragging and is piling on the pressure with an implicit threat of a US-imposed settlement. The US leader has made firm demands for Israel to cease expanding Jewish colonies on the West Bank, to end the demolition of Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem and to relax the blockade of Gaza. He has also included Israel in his calls for nuclear nations to sign-up to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). There are signs that this president is in no mood to shower Israel with unconditional love even if this means head-butting an Israel-subservient Congress.

Moreover, like his predecessor George W. Bush, Obama is in no hurry to bless an Israeli strikes on Iran's nuclear sites. Such an unprecedented strain in US-Israeli relations is eroding Netanyahu's popularity at home and could lead to early elections.

Just a year ago, Israel could do no wrong in the eyes of the international community whereas now it can do little right. However, Israel would quickly be released from the doghouse if it were seen to be at war for its very survival. The US would be forced to back up its longtime ally, Middle East peace would be relegated to the backburner and dependent on the outcome of such a conflict, Netanyahu's approval rating would soar. There are certainly indicators that such a devious plan without any regard for human life may be afoot.

In recent days, Israelis warplanes have violated Lebanon's airspace and have illuminated the skies over a southern Lebanese village with flares. Concurrent with those provocations, Israel is accusing Syria of supplying Hezbollah with Scud missiles with the potential of being fitted with chemical warheads and capable of reaching Tel Aviv.

Damascus denies this claim and, for the moment, Washington is fence sitting. A State Department spokesman has confirmed that the US is "increasingly concerned about the sophisticated weaponry that is allegedly being transferred"; another official has doubted the veracity of the allegation.

Whether or not Hezbollah is armed with Scuds isn't an issue when the organization's leader Hassan Nasrallah has admitted that his military wing has 30,000 missiles with enough range to damage any city within the Jewish state. Ali Fayyad, a pro-Hezbollah Lebanese MP has protested that "the Israeli enemy is going too far with its aggressive and provocative acts" and has asked the Lebanese government to file a complaint with the United Nations Security Council.

It's unlikely that Hezbollah will easily take the bait when it came under heavy internal criticism for triggering the 2006 war with its kidnapping of Israeli soldiers as bargaining chips for prisoner releases. Conflict would not be in the interest of Lebanon which is enjoying renewed economic stability and neither would it benefit Hezbollah, which has an influential presence within the Lebanese government and whose military worth is already proven. But if Israel's provocation becomes too intense, then Nasrallah may be forced to respond. Alternatively, Israel could ignite hostilities with a false-flag operation that would paint Hezbollah as the belligerent party.

Netanyahu's possible motives for attacking Lebanon are manifold. Following the failure of the Israeli military's mission in 2006 which was to disarm Hezbollah, Israel needs a definitive win so as to propagate the myth of its invincibility and permanently eradicate the threat from Hezbollah on its northern border.

Secondly, if Israel intends to strike Iran, it would make sense to hobble Tehran's ally Hezbollah - and possibly Syria - beforehand. According to The Times, Syria is to be held responsible in the event Hezbollah sends ballistic missiles into Israel. "We'll return Syria to the Stone Age," an Israeli minister was quoted as warning.

Alternatively, an attack on Lebanon could potentially draw Iran into the fight, which would play right into Netanyahu's hands by dragging the US into the fray. If that is the plan it could result in a frightening scenario. Netanyahu will be out to win at all costs. There will be no hand-to-hand fighting this time. He will use any legal or illegal weapons at his disposal to produce massive devastation on the pretext that his country's very existence is in the balance. He will be obliged to launch crippling attacks without warning to limit retaliation bearing in mind Israel's vulnerability as a one-bomb state.

Obama needs to read the tealeaves and nip Israel's aggression in the bud while Arab states must find a united voice and a unity of purpose before the rabid dogs are once again unleashed leaving death and destruction in their wake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on April 20, 2010, 03:10:12 AM
(http://www.ihh.org.tr/uploads/10/03/d265b/Resim_326.jpg)


What do you think is going to happen when this flotilla heads for Gaza?

Following months of preparation, a coalition bringing together a number of organizations and movements working to break Israel's blockade on Gaza was announced on Saturday in Istanbul, a statement read.

The coalition, comprised of the Turkey-based Insani Yardim Vakfi (IHH) organization, the European Campaign to End the Siege on Gaza (ECESG), the Greek Ship to Gaza campaign, the Swedish Ship to Gaza campaign and the Free Gaza Movement, will launch a flotilla of ships laden with cargo, media, parliamentarians, celebrities and activists to Gaza next month.

The flotilla includes at least eight vessels, including three cargo ships, and will set sail from European ports beginning 3 May, reaching the port of Gaza later in the month. Over 500 passengers from more than 20 countries will take part, and 5,000 tons of cargo, including cement, prefabricated housing, other building materials, medical equipment, and educational supplies will be delivered to Palestinians in Gaza.

The Free Gaza Movement has been launching ships to Gaza since August 2008, partnering with organizations and activists around the world. In December 2009, IHH led a land convoy to Gaza that brought tons of humanitarian aid and other supplies.

In January 2010 the European Campaign brought 50 parliamentarians to Gaza in solidarity with the Palestinian people and to witness the devastation wrought by Israel's illegal policies. Ship to Gaza/Greece and Ship to Gaza/Sweden meanwhile have had ongoing campaigns in their countries to raise awareness and funds for this effort and for materials to be brought to Gaza.

"Through this coalition, these organizations will be able to maximize resources, experience and commitment to ending the illegal siege on Gaza. Even as Israel continues its daily persecution of Palestinians, we will use this action to wake the world's consciousness about the crimes committed against Palestinians," said IHH President Bulent Yildirim
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 26, 2010, 01:27:21 PM

A woman in a hot air balloon realized she was lost.  She lowered her altitude and spotted a man in a boat below. She shouted to him,

"Excuse me, can you help me?  I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man consulted his portable GPS and replied, "You're in a hot air balloon, approximately 30 feet above ground elevation of 2,346 feet above sea level. You are at 31 degrees, 14.97 minutes north latitude and 100 degrees, 49.09 minutes west longitude.

"She rolled her eyes and said, "You must be an Obama Democrat."

"I am, "replied the man. "How did you know?"

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct.  But I have no idea what to do with your information, and I'm still lost.  Frankly, you've not been much help to me."

The man smiled and responded, "You must be a Republican."

"I am," replied the balloonist. "How did you know?"

"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you are going.  You've risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. You're in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but somehow, now it's my fault."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 29, 2010, 12:45:26 PM
Obama pleads for bipartisan support on immigration

President Barack Obama speaks at Indian Hill Community College in Ottumwa, Iowa, on Tuesday. (EPA)

By JULIE PACE | AP

Published: Apr 28, 2010 19:55 Updated: Apr 28, 2010 23:46

OTTUMWA, Iowa: President Barack Obama on Tuesday warned of harassment against Hispanics under Arizona's tough new immigration law, saying such "poorly conceived" measures can be halted if the federal government fixes America's broken immigration system for good.

Obama pledged to bring his own party along, pleading with Republicans to join in as the only realistic hope to solve a politically volatile problem.

He offered a fresh, stern criticism of a new Arizona law that allows police to question anyone about their immigration status if they have reason to suspect they are in the country illegally. He said it targets people who look they like might be illegal immigrants.

"Now suddenly if you don't have your papers, and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you're going to get harassed - that's something that could potentially happen," Obama said of the Arizona measure. "That's not the right way to go."

The Mexican government warned its citizens Tuesday to use extreme caution if visiting Arizona because of the tough new law.

Obama's comments came on the same day that Attorney General Eric Holder and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano were critical of Arizona's new law, and Holder said the federal government may challenge it. The president sought to step up Washington's will to get an immigration deal done.

"I will bring the majority of Democrats to the table in getting this done," Obama said in response to a question at a town hall in south-central Iowa. "But I've got to have some help from the other side."

Obama said he hoped to get a deal done "sometime soon" - a politically vague timetable in an election year with a shrinking window for legislative action.

Starting a two-day, three-state Midwestern trip, Obama's broader message was about economic revival. Back in Iowa, the state that jump-started his White House bid, Obama sought to reassure wary Iowa voters with a message he hopes will resonate in the fall elections: The economic recovery hasn't reached everyone, but progress is being made. He's not on the ballot this year, but his party's control of Congress is at stake, along with dozens of governors' seats and state legislatures.

On immigration, Obama said he wants a federal law that would secure the borders and require illegal immigrants to register, pay a fine, learn English, take responsibility for having broken the law and get in the back of the line before others who are seeking US citizenship.

He said if all of those challenges are handled in one comprehensive measure, then "we can once again be a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants." He said Arizona's law is poorly conceived, but it is equally unfair for the state to have to deal with hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants.

In Washington, Napolitano also voiced reservations about the new state law, saying it could siphon federal money and staff from hunting down dangerous immigrants. Napolitano, a Democrat, was Arizona's governor before taking her Homeland Security job in Obama's Cabinet.

The critical comments by the nation's top law enforcement official and the Cabinet secretary responsible for enforcing immigration laws came four days after Napolitano's Republican successor in Phoenix signed a law designed to crack down on illegal aliens.

Authorities in suburban Chicago said 24 immigration reform protesters were arrested and cited for disorderly conduct after sitting on a street to block a van carrying detainees from a federal detention center.

The activists say they're tired of waiting for Obama to make good on his vow for immigration reform and are shifting their tactics, including more civil disobedience at May 1 immigrant rights rallies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 29, 2010, 12:50:44 PM
NAZARABAD, Afghanistan: US troops raided the home of a female member of the Afghan parliament and killed a neighbor who was one of her relatives, the MP said on Thursday, an incident that sparked angry protests in the east.

A spokesman for foreign forces in Afghanistan said Western and Afghan troops had raided a house in the area and shot dead an armed man but was not able to comment on whether the house belonged to a member of parliament.

Night-time raids by Western troops and civilian casualties are among the most incendiary issues in Afghanistan, and the targeting of a female parliamentarian would raise the political temperature at a time when NATO is preparing a large offensive.

Safia Sediqi, an outspoken member of parliament from eastern Nangarhar province, said scores of US soldiers raided her village home shortly before midnight.

Inside the house, they broke furniture and tied up family members, including her brother, for hours, she said. Outside, they shot dead a neighbor, who was also a relative by marriage.

"I will raise my voice. I am a member of parliament, my residence must be protected," Sediqi told Reuters. "This man had five children. The Americans have created five more enemies." She said she had phoned Afghan authorities from inside the house during the raid to try to have it stopped, but the US troops had the compound surrounded and did not let Afghan forces interfere.

Master Sergeant Jeff Loftin, a spokesman for the US-led NATO military force, said a team of Western and Afghan troops had carried out the raid because of intelligence reports of insurgent activity there. They shot dead an armed man who ignored commands through an interpreter to lower his weapon, he said.

The International Security Assistance Force said in a statement it and Afghan forces were reviewing the operation.

Scores of angry residents brought the dead man's body to a main road on Thursday, chanting anti-American and anti-government slogans. They said they would not bury the body until they received a proper explanation of how he was killed.

The commander of US and NATO forces, General Stanley McChrystal, has tried to place limits on night raids, a tactic he says is sometimes necessary to pursue insurgents but can also set back the overall strategy of winning public support.

Under McChrystal's guidance, night raids should be carried out only as a last resort and with the participation of Afghan forces. He has however refused repeated requests by President Hamid Karzai to ban night raids altogether.

Ghafoor Khan, provincial police spokesman, said the operation had not been coordinated with Afghan security forces.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 30, 2010, 11:15:35 AM
Poor Mexico and the wicked Americans
THE president of Mexico was furious. "Criminalizing immigration, which is a social and economic phenomena, opens the door to intolerance, hate, and discrimination," Felipe Calderon told a meeting of Mexican immigrant groups. The state of Arizona had gone too far.

Jose Miguel Insulza, the head of the Organization of American States, was equally angry. "We consider the bill clearly discriminatory against immigrants, and especially against immigrants from Latin America," he told the Associated Press news agency. His point seemed to be that by treating illegal Mexican immigrants as a police matter, the new Arizona law is attacking their human rights.

The new law that is causing such outrage requires Arizona police to question people about their immigration status if they suspect they are there illegally. Day laborers face arrest for soliciting work if they are in the US illegally, and police departments can be sued if they fail to enforce the law. Illegal immigrants will face jail sentences of up to six months and fines of up to $2,500 before being expelled from the United States.

Harsh measures, certainly, but suppose I went to Mexico as a tourist and then stayed there illegally, taking work that might otherwise have gone to some deserving Mexican citizen. That does not figure prominently in my current plans, but if I did it, I would not be treated more gently by the Mexican authorities. Why does Mexico believe that its own citizens who are illegally in the United States deserve better treatment?

The flow of illegal migrants to the United States is important for Mexico. It provides a vital safety valve for the Mexican state, which would otherwise face the discontent of millions of Mexicans who cannot find decent jobs at home, and their remittances are a great help to the Mexican balance of payments. But the widely held Mexican belief that illegal immigrants have RIGHTS in the United States is most peculiar.

It arises from the fact that for a long time the United States has deliberately kept the border with Mexico porous, so that large numbers of Mexican illegals can enter the United States to provide cheap stoop labor for American agribusiness. In the cities along the American side of the frontier the border defenses are quite impressive, but out in the desert they are frequently no more than three strands of barbed wire and a dirt patrol track.

Out in the desert, of course, some hundreds of the Mexican border-crossers get lost and die of thirst each year, but that is necessary in order to maintain the fiction that the United States is doing all it can to stop the flow. It is also assumed that most of the illegals will go home again after the harvest, but of course each year some choose to stay permanently.

Each year the number of permanently resident illegal immigrants grows: Even in Arizona, where there is not a huge demand for agricultural labor, there are now an estimated 460,000 illegal Mexican immigrants. That is about 7 percent of Arizona's total population. Some argue that they are doing jobs nobody else wants, but that is only a possible reason for letting them stay. It certainly does not give them the right to stay.

Yet the Mexican government reacts with outraged indignation whenever the US government, or in this case an American state, talks about enforcing the law against illegal immigrants. It has come to think of the nod-and-a-wink arrangement that allows large numbers of illegal immigrants to cross the border each year as the natural state of things.

Arizona is calling time on that system, and actually intends to seek out and send home people who are in the state illegally. In most parts of the world, that would not be regarded as unreasonable. What is different in Arizona's case?

The implicit charge is racism. The assumption is that American citizens of Mexican origin, and legitimate Mexican visitors, will also be stopped and asked to prove that they are legally in the United States — and that they will be chosen for questioning on the grounds that they simply look "Mexican".

President Calderon himself would never be inconvenienced by such a policy, because he does not look "Mexican". He looks like your average white American, as does a large majority of the Mexican upper class. But it is true that most poorer Mexicans, including both legal and illegal Mexican immigrants in the United States, are mestizos of mixed white and Indian ancestry.

They look "Mexican", in other words, and the concern is that they will face constant demands from the police to prove they are legally in the United States. But the solution for this is simple. Simply enforce the same rules that apply in airport security queues to ensure that nobody feels they are being "profiled" because of their ethnicity.

In the airports, they make sure that heavily bearded young men who look "Middle Eastern" face no greater risk of being selected for special examination than paraplegic grandmothers. The Arizona police should be instructed to stop 13 white, black and Asian people and check that they are legally in the state for every person they stop who looks "Mexican".

Then nobody will have anything to complain about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 30, 2010, 12:55:06 PM
for the record Hedley's comment is actually a quote taken from the Salt Lake Tribune as an opinion piece...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 30, 2010, 02:02:26 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on April 30, 2010, 11:15:35 AM
Yet the Irish government reacts with outraged indignation whenever the US government, or in this case an American state, talks about enforcing the law against illegal immigrants.

Fixed that for you :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 30, 2010, 04:12:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 30, 2010, 12:55:06 PM
for the record Hedley's comment is actually a quote taken from the Salt Lake Tribune as an opinion piece...

I'll take your word for it, but it is not where I read it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on April 30, 2010, 04:21:43 PM
"In the airports, they make sure that heavily bearded young men who look "Middle Eastern" face no greater risk of being selected for special examination than paraplegic grandmothers. The Arizona police should be instructed to stop 13 white, black and Asian people and check that they are legally in the state for every person they stop who looks "Mexican"."


There's about as much chance of that happening as there is of Man utd wining this year's champions league  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 30, 2010, 05:54:42 PM
Only in PC America is it deemed unfair (by Obama no less) to make an attempt to uphold the law of the land ::)
Try over staying your welcome in Mexico and see where that gets you  >:(

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 02, 2010, 11:11:03 PM
Barack Obama has awakened a sleeping nation

Gary Hubbell
Aspen Times Weekly          February 2010

Barack Obama is the best thing that has happened to America in the last 100 years. Truly, he is the savior of America 's future. He is the best thing ever.

Despite the fact that he has some of the lowest approval ratings among recent presidents, history will see Barack Obama as the source of America 's resurrection. Barack Obama has plunged the country into levels of debt that we could not have previously imagined; his efforts to nationalize health care have been met with fierce resistance nationwide; TARP bailouts and stimulus spending have shown little positive effect on the national economy; unemployment is unacceptably high and looks to remain that way for most of a decade; legacy entitlement programs have ballooned to unsustainable levels, and there is a seething anger in the populace.

That's why Barack Obama is such a good thing for America .

Obama is the symbol of a creeping liberalism that has infected our society like a cancer for the last 100 years. Just as Hitler is the face of fascism, Obama will go down in history as the face of unchecked liberalism. The cancer metastasized to the point where it could no longer be ignored.

Average Americans who have quietly gone about their lives, earning a paycheck, contributing to their favorite charities, going to high school football games on Friday night, spending their weekends at the beach or on hunting trips - they've gotten off the fence. They've woken up. There is a level of political activism in this country that we haven't seen since the American Revolution, and Barack Obama has been the catalyst that has sparked a restructuring of the American political and social consciousness.

Think of the crap we've slowly learned to tolerate over the past 50 years as liberalism sought to re-structure the America that was the symbol of freedom and liberty to all the people of the world. Immigration laws were ignored on the basis of compassion. Welfare policies encouraged irresponsibility, the fracturing of families, and a cycle of generations of dependency. Debt was regarded as a tonic to lubricate the economy. Our children left school having been taught that they are exceptional and special, while great numbers of them cannot perform basic functions of mathematics and literacy. Legislators decided that people could not be trusted to defend their own homes, and stripped citizens of their rights to own firearms. Productive members of society have been penalized with a heavy burden of taxes in order to support legions of do-nothings who loll around, reveling in their addictions, obesity, indolence, ignorance and "disabilities." Criminals have been arrested and re-arrested, coddled and set free to pillage the citizenry yet again. Lawyers routinely extort fortunes from doctors, contractors and business people with dubious torts.

We slowly learned to tolerate these outrages, shaking our heads in disbelief, and we went on with our lives.

But Barack Obama has ripped the lid off a seething cauldron of dissatisfaction and unrest.

In the time of Barack Obama, Black Panther members stand outside polling places in black commando uniforms, slapping truncheons into their palms. ACORN - a taxpayer-supported organization - is given a role in taking the census, even after its members were caught on tape offering advice to set up child prostitution rings. A former Communist is given a paid government position in the White House as an adviser to the president. Auto companies are taken over by the government, and the auto workers' union - whose contracts are completely insupportable in any economic sense - is rewarded with a stake in the company. Government bails out Wall Street investment bankers and insurance companies, who pay their executives outrageous bonuses as thanks for the public support. Terrorists are read their Miranda rights and given free lawyers. And, despite overwhelming public disapproval, Barack Obama has pushed forward with a health care plan that would re-structure one-sixth of the American economy.

I don't know about you, but the other day I was at the courthouse doing some business, and I stepped into the court clerk's office and changed my voter affiliation from "Independent" to "Republican." I am under no illusion that the Republican party is perfect, but at least they're starting to awaken to the fact that we cannot sustain massive levels of debt; we cannot afford to hand out billions of dollars in corporate subsidies; we have to somehow trim our massive entitlement programs; we can no longer be the world's policeman and dole out billions in aid to countries whose citizens seek to harm us.

Literally millions of Americans have had enough. They're organizing, they're studying the Constitution and the Federalist Papers, they're reading history and case law, they're showing up at rallies and meetings, and a slew of conservative candidates are throwing their hats into the ring. Is there a revolution brewing? Yes, in the sense that there is a keen awareness that our priorities and sensibilities must be radically re-structured. Will it be a violent revolution? No. It will be done through the interpretation of the original document that has guided us for 220 years - the Constitution. Just as the pendulum swung to embrace political correctness and liberalism, there will be a backlash, a complete repudiation of a hundred years of nonsense. A hundred years from now, history will perceive the year 2010 as the time when America got back on the right track. And for that, we can thank Barack Hussein Obama.

Gary Hubbell is a hunter, rancher, and former hunting and fly-fishing guide. Gary works as a Colorado ranch real estate broker.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2010, 12:40:11 AM
Here's another from Mr Hubbell. It seems he felt a little neglected during the last election!

I do wonder how much sympathy he (the belated newcomer to the GOP ::)) thinks the tea partiers and, especially, the Republican party have for his pursuits of fly-fishing and hunting. "Will we poison that stream with cyanide to make a few quick bucks on massive quantities of low grade ore now that gold prices are so high, or will we forgo it and preserve that trout fishery? Hmmm..."


In election 2008, don't forget Angry White Man

There is a great amount of interest in this year's presidential elections, as everybody seems to recognize that our next president has to be a lot better than George Bush. The Democrats are riding high with two groundbreaking candidates — a woman and an African-American — while the conservative Republicans are in a quandary about their party's nod to a quasi-liberal maverick, John McCain.

Each candidate is carefully pandering to a smorgasbord of special-interest groups, ranging from gay, lesbian and transgender people to children of illegal immigrants to working mothers to evangelical Christians.

There is one group no one has recognized, and it is the group that will decide the election: the Angry White Man. The Angry White Man comes from all economic backgrounds, from dirt-poor to filthy rich. He represents all geographic areas in America, from urban sophisticate to rural redneck, deep South to mountain West, left Coast to Eastern Seaboard.

His common traits are that he isn't looking for anything from anyone — just the promise to be able to make his own way on a level playing field. In many cases, he is an independent businessman and employs several people. He pays more than his share of taxes and works hard.

The victimhood syndrome buzzwords — "disenfranchised," "marginalized" and "voiceless" — don't resonate with him. "Press 'one' for English" is a curse-word to him. He's used to picking up the tab, whether it's the company Christmas party, three sets of braces, three college educations or a beautiful wedding.

He believes the Constitution is to be interpreted literally, not as a "living document" open to the whims and vagaries of a panel of judges who have never worked an honest day in their lives.

The Angry White Man owns firearms, and he's willing to pick up a gun to defend his home and his country. He is willing to lay down his life to defend the freedom and safety of others, and the thought of killing someone who needs killing really doesn't bother him.

The Angry White Man is not a metrosexual, a homosexual or a victim. Nobody like him drowned in Hurricane Katrina — he got his people together and got the hell out, then went back in to rescue those too helpless and stupid to help themselves, often as a police officer, a National Guard soldier or a volunteer firefighter.

His last name and religion don't matter. His background might be Italian, English, Polish, German, Slavic, Irish, or Russian, and he might have Cherokee, Mexican, or Puerto Rican mixed in, but he considers himself a white American.

He's a man's man, the kind of guy who likes to play poker, watch football, hunt white-tailed deer, call turkeys, play golf, spend a few bucks at a strip club once in a blue moon, change his own oil and build things. He coaches baseball, soccer and football teams and doesn't ask for a penny. He's the kind of guy who can put an addition on his house with a couple of friends, drill an oil well, weld a new bumper for his truck, design a factory and publish books. He can fill a train with 100,000 tons of coal and get it to the power plant on time so that you keep the lights on and never know what it took to flip that light switch.

Women either love him or hate him, but they know he's a man, not a dishrag. If they're looking for someone to walk all over, they've got the wrong guy. He stands up straight, opens doors for women and says "Yes, sir" and "No, ma'am."

He might be a Republican and he might be a Democrat; he might be a Libertarian or a Green. He knows that his wife is more emotional than rational, and he guides the family in a rational manner.

He's not a racist, but he is annoyed and disappointed when people of certain backgrounds exhibit behavior that typifies the worst stereotypes of their race. He's willing to give everybody a fair chance if they work hard, play by the rules and learn English.

Most important, the Angry White Man is pissed off. When his job site becomes flooded with illegal workers who don't pay taxes and his wages drop like a stone, he gets righteously angry. When his job gets shipped overseas, and he has to speak to some incomprehensible idiot in India for tech support, he simmers. When Al Sharpton comes on TV, leading some rally for reparations for slavery or some such nonsense, he bites his tongue and he remembers. When a child gets charged with carrying a concealed weapon for mistakenly bringing a penknife to school, he takes note of who the local idiots are in education and law enforcement.

He also votes, and the Angry White Man loathes Hillary Clinton. Her voice reminds him of a shovel scraping a rock. He recoils at the mere sight of her on television. Her very image disgusts him, and he cannot fathom why anyone would want her as their leader. It's not that she is a woman. It's that she is who she is. It's the liberal victim groups she panders to, the "poor me" attitude that she represents, her inability to give a straight answer to an honest question, his tax dollars that she wants to give to people who refuse to do anything for themselves.

There are many millions of Angry White Men. Four million Angry White Men are members of the National Rifle Association, and all of them will vote against Hillary Clinton, just as the great majority of them voted for George Bush.

He hopes that she will be the Democratic nominee for president in 2008, and he will make sure that she gets beaten like a drum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 03, 2010, 03:26:51 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 02, 2010, 11:11:03 PM

Gary Hubbell is a hunter, rancher, and former hunting and fly-fishing guide. Gary works as a Colorado ranch real estate broker.

Gary Hubbel is trying to sell more houses so that he can get the 6% real estate commission.

What's your excuse T.O. ?

can you give me a few suggestions of changes you would have the President make, and of course get through the houses and into law?

any thoughts on the arizona immigration bill?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 03, 2010, 09:32:55 AM
Arizona has just passed the toughest law dealing with illegal immigrants in the US. The law is one which is arguably unconstitutional. In a state such as Arizona — with fewer than seven million people, nearly half a million are thought to be illegal — the law is needed to secure its porous border, one of the main entry points for illegal aliens into the US.

But the new law practically mandates racial profiling.

Arizona police can now stop and question anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. If the person cannot confirm their status, they can be arrested. The law says race or national origin cannot be the sole factor constituting "reasonable suspicion," but it doesn't prohibit race or ethnicity from being one factor. Race is, in fact, almost always the deciding factor.

Anyone could be stopped simply because they look different from ordinary white Americans.

The irony is that the United States practically invited undocumented laborers into the country during the 1990s, when houses needed to be built and their rooms needed to be cleaned. Back then, there was a demand for a steady supply of cheap labor. Many of those workers started families, paid taxes and even established small businesses. The nation that thinks of itself as the beacon of hope would be unjust if it suggested that those workers don't deserve a path to citizenship after several hard-working, honest years in the country.

Law-abiding immigrants who did it the right and lawful way, waiting to get into the country by applying and waiting for their turn and not going to the head of the line like other freeloaders, deserve citizenship and also deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

The law is also necessary because of the federal government's failure to secure the Arizona border, allowing hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to move into the state. Most come from Mexico looking for work, but Arizona's border is also a busy route for drug smugglers.

But legal residents of Arizona or any other state have rights as well. To determine that a person is considered likely to commit a particular type of crime or an illegal act or to behave in a "predictable" manner and, therefore, is worthy of investigation or arrest, simply on the basis of what he looks like, is discriminatory, racist and bigoted.

While state officials have repeatedly emphasized that the law expressly forbids law enforcement officers from stopping someone on the basis of their ethnicity, the move will lead to racial profiling, as is practiced in international airports where racial profiling is sometimes used to decide who to search more carefully and extensively than someone else. 

The fallout from 9/11 and the American media's continuous stereotyped portrayal of Arabs as terrorists, if a person's physical features look like what is seen as "middle eastern", then they're more likely to be stopped and searched more thoroughly than someone who has the physical features of a fair-skinned person.

The one thing everyone agrees on is that the federal government needs to act on immigration. Where they differ is on how it should be done. Without federal legislation to address the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the US, other states may follow Arizona's lead. If that happens, people in the US who look Arab, or are Arabs, are in for unsettling times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on May 03, 2010, 03:20:27 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 03, 2010, 09:32:55 AM
Arizona has just passed the toughest law dealing with illegal immigrants in the US. The law is one which is arguably unconstitutional. In a state such as Arizona — with fewer than seven million people, nearly half a million are thought to be illegal — the law is needed to secure its porous border, one of the main entry points for illegal aliens into the US.

But the new law practically mandates racial profiling.

Arizona police can now stop and question anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. If the person cannot confirm their status, they can be arrested. The law says race or national origin cannot be the sole factor constituting "reasonable suspicion," but it doesn't prohibit race or ethnicity from being one factor. Race is, in fact, almost always the deciding factor.

Anyone could be stopped simply because they look different from ordinary white Americans.

The irony is that the United States practically invited undocumented laborers into the country during the 1990s, when houses needed to be built and their rooms needed to be cleaned. Back then, there was a demand for a steady supply of cheap labor. Many of those workers started families, paid taxes and even established small businesses. The nation that thinks of itself as the beacon of hope would be unjust if it suggested that those workers don't deserve a path to citizenship after several hard-working, honest years in the country.

Law-abiding immigrants who did it the right and lawful way, waiting to get into the country by applying and waiting for their turn and not going to the head of the line like other freeloaders, deserve citizenship and also deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

The law is also necessary because of the federal government's failure to secure the Arizona border, allowing hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to move into the state. Most come from Mexico looking for work, but Arizona's border is also a busy route for drug smugglers.

But legal residents of Arizona or any other state have rights as well. To determine that a person is considered likely to commit a particular type of crime or an illegal act or to behave in a "predictable" manner and, therefore, is worthy of investigation or arrest, simply on the basis of what he looks like, is discriminatory, racist and bigoted.

While state officials have repeatedly emphasized that the law expressly forbids law enforcement officers from stopping someone on the basis of their ethnicity, the move will lead to racial profiling, as is practiced in international airports where racial profiling is sometimes used to decide who to search more carefully and extensively than someone else. 

The fallout from 9/11 and the American media's continuous stereotyped portrayal of Arabs as terrorists, if a person's physical features look like what is seen as "middle eastern", then they're more likely to be stopped and searched more thoroughly than someone who has the physical features of a fair-skinned person.

The one thing everyone agrees on is that the federal government needs to act on immigration. Where they differ is on how it should be done. Without federal legislation to address the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the US, other states may follow Arizona's lead. If that happens, people in the US who look Arab, or are Arabs, are in for unsettling times.



Hedley, in your rush to castigate the US for this new policy in Arizona - you and many others have over looked one vital component. The request for papers/identification is only permissible if the police have had probably cause to talk to you in the first instance. You have to have somehow drawn the attention of the authorities with some kind of concerning behaviour - before you can be requested to provide evidence of legality regarding immigration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 03, 2010, 05:29:30 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on May 03, 2010, 03:20:27 PM

Hedley, in your rush to castigate the US for this new policy in Arizona - you and many others have over looked one vital component. The request for papers/identification is only permissible if the police have had probably cause to talk to you in the first instance. You have to have somehow drawn the attention of the authorities with some kind of concerning behaviour - before you can be requested to provide evidence of legality regarding immigration.

not sure that this is in fact the case:
It requires police officers, "when practicable," to detain people they reasonably suspect are in the country without authorization and to verify their status with federal officials, unless doing so would hinder an investigation or emergency medical treatment.

It also makes it a state crime — a misdemeanor — to not carry immigration papers. In addition, it allows people to sue local government or agencies if they believe federal or state immigration law is not being enforced.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on May 03, 2010, 05:41:24 PM
According to on the ground officers- that is how it is to be implemented.

Now the actuality of it may be different - and I am sure there will be cases of harrassment - but what I initially posted came from the horses mouth in my opinon. A high ranking crime enforcement official told me that the only time this will be used - is if in fact a reason comes to light for the police to need to "visit with" an individual in the first instance.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 03, 2010, 06:01:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 03, 2010, 03:26:51 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 02, 2010, 11:11:03 PM

Gary Hubbell is a hunter, rancher, and former hunting and fly-fishing guide. Gary works as a Colorado ranch real estate broker.

What's your excuse T.O. ?
For what HB ?...I simply posted this because I happen to believe
in the top line that I had in Bold :-\
Quotecan you give me a few suggestions of changes you would have the President make, and of course get through the houses and into law?
Sure...make good on the promises he made on the economy and job creation for example would
be a great start!...and do you need remembering who controls both houses :-X
Quote
any thoughts on the arizona immigration bill?
See my post above........... ::)

What's your thoughts on his handling(a week later) of the Oil leak in the gulf Katrina anyone?
Or the attempted car bomb in your back garden?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 03, 2010, 06:05:24 PM
What part of "it's illegal to be in this country without proper documentation"
much like it is in most other countries in the world don't ye boys understand ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 03, 2010, 06:12:56 PM
To me what is unconstitutional is a President allowing illegal aliens into the country and bleeding the Country of much needed jobs for the American and legal workers in the States.

If you are an illegal alien in any Country you should be sent back to were you came from, you are illegally in a foreign country and therefore all Obamas rhetoric on this issue is nonsense, the fact is that Americans should be looking to him to uphold the law of the land, not aid the breaking of the law of the land.

Neither Obama nor the Mexican President talk about the fact that these people have no right to be in the Country in the first place, they are breaking the law by being here and they should be held accountable for that, be they black, white Muslim or Gentile.

With everything that is going on in Mexico these days, not to mention the fact that the border is porous and could be used by various enemies of the US I would have thought that the President would be making sure that all the countries border areas are shored up security wise, not this clown, it is open season at the minute and the fact is that America has no idea of these people history, health wise or if they have criminal records etc.

If you cant come into the country the right way dont come in at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Massey-135 on May 03, 2010, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 03, 2010, 06:01:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 03, 2010, 03:26:51 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 02, 2010, 11:11:03 PM

Gary Hubbell is a hunter, rancher, and former hunting and fly-fishing guide. Gary works as a Colorado ranch real estate broker.

What's your excuse T.O. ?
For what HB ?...I simply posted this because I happen to believe
in the top line that I had in Bold :-\

Do you buy into all the rest of the shite in that article though? i haven't the time or inclination to get into a whole discussion today but most of that article is maddening stuff. the whole middle america thing of friday night football games and going for a weekend hunting? makes me want to puke. and that bit near the end about turning the clock back on over 100 years of liberalism, does he want to bring back racial segragation etc?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on May 03, 2010, 06:41:17 PM
Quote from: Massey-135 on May 03, 2010, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 03, 2010, 06:01:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 03, 2010, 03:26:51 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 02, 2010, 11:11:03 PM

Gary Hubbell is a hunter, rancher, and former hunting and fly-fishing guide. Gary works as a Colorado ranch real estate broker.

What's your excuse T.O. ?
For what HB ?...I simply posted this because I happen to believe
in the top line that I had in Bold :-\

Do you buy into all the rest of the shite in that article though? i haven't the time or inclination to get into a whole discussion today but most of that article is maddening stuff. the whole middle america thing of friday night football games and going for a weekend hunting? makes me want to puke. and that bit near the end about turning the clock back on over 100 years of liberalism, does he want to bring back racial segragation etc?

Maddening or not - that is how they roll over here. Middle america is alive and well - and sure theres nothing wrong with those things is there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 03, 2010, 07:07:35 PM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2010, 06:12:56 PM
To me what is unconstitutional is a President allowing illegal aliens into the country and bleeding the Country of much needed jobs for the American and legal workers in the States.

If you are an illegal alien in any Country you should be sent back to were you came from, you are illegally in a foreign country and therefore all Obamas rhetoric on this issue is nonsense, the fact is that Americans should be looking to him to uphold the law of the land, not aid the breaking of the law of the land.

Neither Obama nor the Mexican President talk about the fact that these people have no right to be in the Country in the first place, they are breaking the law by being here and they should be held accountable for that, be they black, white Muslim or Gentile.

With everything that is going on in Mexico these days, not to mention the fact that the border is porous and could be used by various enemies of the US I would have thought that the President would be making sure that all the countries border areas are shored up security wise, not this clown, it is open season at the minute and the fact is that America has no idea of these people history, health wise or if they have criminal records etc.

If you cant come into the country the right way dont come in at all.

All these illegals did not come in under Obama's watch, and bottom line is they all do jobs that the average white american are not prepared to do.

You must be popular down in the Irish bars ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 03, 2010, 07:18:54 PM
 All these illegals did not come in under Obama's watch, and bottom line is they all do jobs that the average white american are not prepared to do.

You must be popular down in the Irish bars ::)
[/quote]

So what? Obama is the President of the United States, he should want the countries borders secured and he should want only legal workers in his country.

That line about the illegals only doing work the yanks wont do is a lie, a damned lie, the same shite was spouted in Ireland and nothing could have been further from the truth.

You can make all the excuses you want but you cant get around the fact that if you are in a country you have no right to be in you should be deported, end of discussion.

All the Irish I know in Green Bay are Legally in the country, we all get along fine, I drink in an Irish tavern in Florida about four times a year and there are about thirty guys that drink there that are illegal, they know how I feel and we get along fine, we simply agree to disagree.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2010, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2010, 07:18:54 PM
QuoteAll these illegals did not come in under Obama's watch, and bottom line is they all do jobs that the average white american are not prepared to do.

You must be popular down in the Irish bars ::)

So what? Obama is the President of the United States, he should want the countries borders secured and he should want only legal workers in his country.

That line about the illegals only doing work the yanks wont do is a lie, a damned lie, the same shite was spouted in Ireland and nothing could have been further from the truth.

You can make all the excuses you want but you cant get around the fact that if you are in a country you have no right to be in you should be deported, end of discussion.

All the Irish I know in Green Bay are Legally in the country, we all get along fine, I drink in an Irish tavern in Florida about four times a year and there are about thirty guys that drink there that are illegal, they know how I feel and we get along fine, we simply agree to disagree.

It certainly was the truth in Ireland. Times have changed now though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 03, 2010, 07:26:41 PM
"That line about the illegals only doing work the yanks wont do is a lie, a damned lie, the same shite was spouted in Ireland and nothing could have been further from the truth."

Sure it is......watch you don't get a nose bleed up on that high horse of yours :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on May 03, 2010, 07:45:10 PM
Stew -  The US needs illegal workers, it really does. Maybe the current economic crisis has hurt many people - but all the people I hear bitching on the job forums and news lines in Reno are more than welcome to apply for the janitorial jobs, the McDonalds jobs and so on. They dont however. They would rather sit at home and bitch about whatever administration is in power and live off the state - at the same time crying about the mexicans taking their jobs. I would have GLADLY worked in McDonalds - or any other minimum paying job during the 8 months I was jobless - but my hands were tied in that I could only work in an area related to my degree in order to maintain legal status. I dont see the average unemployed american taking their future in their own hands right now and doing lower paying jobs just to be doing something. A slice of bread is better than no loaf - but they cant see that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 03, 2010, 09:55:57 PM
I could never get my head around the fact that the US, like Australia, are countries where everyone is either an immigrant, or a descendant of one. The 2 most racist countries I have ever been to.

They either kicked the natives of the land, or killed them. A bit like modern day Israel.

If the US were to kick out every illegal immigrant, then who would pick the fruit, mow lawns, etc, etc?

California is one serious producer of fruit and veg. Practically every single job is carried out by Mexicans.
Would middle America stand out in 100 degree+ weather picking oranges?

What I cannot get my head around is Irish people living the the US giving out about illegal immigrants. Take a look at how many Irish moved there, and how many of those were legal?

If it wasn't for the Donnelly and Morrision grenn cards, there would be thousands of Irish living there illegally.

Without illegal immigrants in the US, the economy would collapse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2010, 10:03:07 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 03, 2010, 09:55:57 PM
I could never get my head around the fact that the US, like Australia, are countries where everyone is either an immigrant, or a descendant of one. The 2 most racist countries I have ever been to.

They either kicked the natives of the land, or killed them. A bit like modern day Israel.

If the US were to kick out every illegal immigrant, then who would pick the fruit, mow lawns, etc, etc?

California is one serious producer of fruit and veg. Practically every single job is carried out by Mexicans.
Would middle America stand out in 100 degree+ weather picking oranges?

What I cannot get my head around is Irish people living the the US giving out about illegal immigrants. Take a look at how many Irish moved there, and how many of those were legal?

If it wasn't for the Donnelly and Morrision grenn cards, there would be thousands of Irish living there illegally.

Without illegal immigrants in the US, the economy would collapse.

I agree with this. We invented illegal immigrants. We are the world champions of illegal immigration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on May 03, 2010, 10:12:25 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 03, 2010, 09:55:57 PM
I could never get my head around the fact that the US, like Australia, are countries where everyone is either an immigrant, or a descendant of one. The 2 most racist countries I have ever been to.

They either kicked the natives of the land, or killed them. A bit like modern day Israel.

If the US were to kick out every illegal immigrant, then who would pick the fruit, mow lawns, etc, etc?

California is one serious producer of fruit and veg. Practically every single job is carried out by Mexicans.
Would middle America stand out in 100 degree+ weather picking oranges?

What I cannot get my head around is Irish people living the the US giving out about illegal immigrants. Take a look at how many Irish moved there, and how many of those were legal?

If it wasn't for the Donnelly and Morrision grenn cards, there would be thousands of Irish living there illegally.
Without illegal immigrants in the US, the economy would collapse.

There might even be a few of these people on this board ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 03, 2010, 10:27:07 PM
While living in California in the 90's, I remember a Prop 187 Bill was up for a vote in the elections in Nov '94.
The bill was probably even harsher than the one in Arizona today.

The Republican canditate, Michael Huffington, supported the bill, and then by the end of the week,
he had to admit that he employed an illegal immigrant........

He lost, and the bill sank too.

What it proves that in the US, especially in California, people are willing to shout out about illegals, however, they have no problem hiring them to mow their grass, wash their plates, pick their fruit, and clean up after their lazy fat asses in Mc Donalds and Burger King.

Below is the news article on Huffington

THE 1994 CAMPAIGN: CALIFORNIA; Huffington Admits Hiring Illegal Alien
By B. DRUMMOND AYRES Jr.,
Published: October 27, 1994


LOS ANGELES, Oct. 27— Representative Michael Huffington, a candidate for the United States Senate who favors stronger measures to stop illegal immigration, said today that he had employed an undocumented alien at his home in Santa Barbara, Calif., until last year.

Officials of the Huffington campaign acknowledged that the immigrant, a woman, worked for five years for the Republican candidate and his wife as a nanny, taking care of their two young daughters.

They also said that the couple did not pay the required payroll taxes for the woman for the first two years she worked for them. The admissions came in response to an article in today's Los Angeles Times.

Federal law requires employers -- even those who employ people for part-time domestic work -- to verify that their workers are in the country legally before hiring them, and provides for fines for violations.

Mr. Huffington and his Democratic opponent, Senator Dianne Feinstein, have tried to position themselves as tough on immigration, and last week, Mr. Huffington announced his support of Proposition 187, a popular initiative aimed at curbing illegal immigration by denying most education and health benefits to illegal aliens. Ms. Feinstein came out against the measure, saying that her stand could cost her the race.

The proposition has become one of the most hotly debated issues in the election and one that has drawn national attention.

A Huffington campaign official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the the couple hired the nanny after their first daughter was born, and learned later that she was in the country illegally. In 1990, the official said, they began the process of attempting to obtain a green card for the woman, to allow her to live and work in the United States legally, and they began to pay her taxes.

The process of making the nanny's status legal had not been completed, the official said, when the Huffingtons moved to Washington last year after Mr. Huffington was elected to Congress.

The official would not say what country the nanny was from, but said she is still in the United States.

The question of hiring illegal aliens led President Clinton to withdraw two of his nominees for Attorney General, Zoe Baird, a corporate lawyer who had failed to pay Social Security taxes for illegal Peruvian household workers, and Judge Kimba M. Wood of Federal District Court in New York, who had hired an illegal alien as a babbysitter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 03, 2010, 11:55:21 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on May 03, 2010, 07:45:10 PM
Stew -  The US needs illegal workers, it really does. Maybe the current economic crisis has hurt many people - but all the people I hear bitching on the job forums and news lines in Reno are more than welcome to apply for the janitorial jobs, the McDonalds jobs and so on. They dont however. They would rather sit at home and bitch about whatever administration is in power and live off the state - at the same time crying about the mexicans taking their jobs. I would have GLADLY worked in McDonalds - or any other minimum paying job during the 8 months I was jobless - but my hands were tied in that I could only work in an area related to my degree in order to maintain legal status. I dont see the average unemployed american taking their future in their own hands right now and doing lower paying jobs just to be doing something. A slice of bread is better than no loaf - but they cant see that.

I have a neighbour that lost his job due to downsizing, he is delivering newspapers to help make ends meet whilst he also has a full time job he just landed that will pay him about half of what he was making, he is far from lazy.

I see Americans doing whatever they can to keep their heads above water, a golfing buddy of mine has owned an appraisal business for twenty years, the regulations have changed his industry under Obama and he is applying for jobs right and left and centre, doing what he can to keep bread on the table, I dont know one fecker that likes living on the dole over here, not a one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 03, 2010, 11:58:44 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 03, 2010, 07:26:41 PM
"That line about the illegals only doing work the yanks wont do is a lie, a damned lie, the same shite was spouted in Ireland and nothing could have been further from the truth."

Sure it is......watch you don't get a nose bleed up on that high horse of yours :D

I am not on a high horse, I know the score, I live in the states and I have a strong opinion on this, are you suggesting that illegal aliens have the right to be living in a country that didnt authorize their entry into the country?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2010, 12:13:07 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2010, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2010, 07:18:54 PM
QuoteAll these illegals did not come in under Obama's watch, and bottom line is they all do jobs that the average white american are not prepared to do.

You must be popular down in the Irish bars ::)

So what? Obama is the President of the United States, he should want the countries borders secured and he should want only legal workers in his country.

That line about the illegals only doing work the yanks wont do is a lie, a damned lie, the same shite was spouted in Ireland and nothing could have been further from the truth.

You can make all the excuses you want but you cant get around the fact that if you are in a country you have no right to be in you should be deported, end of discussion.

All the Irish I know in Green Bay are Legally in the country, we all get along fine, I drink in an Irish tavern in Florida about four times a year and there are about thirty guys that drink there that are illegal, they know how I feel and we get along fine, we simply agree to disagree.

It certainly was the truth in Ireland. Times have changed now though.

I've done plenty of shitty jobs, including working crappy fast food for years to put myself through university. When I started, such jobs were not easy to get and the place I worked was full of third level Irish students, many living at home in well-off areas of Dublin. By the time I left Ireland at the height of the Celtic Tiger, you wouldn't see a single Irish person working in any of those types of jobs in fast food, hotels, restaurants etc - it was all Africans and Chinese (I left just before the Polish influx). Forward a year or two and passing through Dublin airport, virtually every cute young shop assistant was Polish! Stew is definitely wrong in that regard. Sure why was Mary Harney pleading for tens of thousands of immigrants to come in to do all this menial work?

I have to agree with Stew though on the immigration thing, at least in terms of securing the border. There is no reason why hundreds of thousands should be streaming across every year. Would an expansion of the border patrol not put some of the thousands of police laid off over the past couple of years to work? Not even the tea partiers would object to a bit of stimulus in that respect I'm sure!

There's still plenty of illegal Irish about New York though, even if many went home over the past four or five years. I know of at least one who, after being illegal for three years, got a state-issued license required for his job, despite not having any proof that he had a right to be in the country!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 04, 2010, 03:35:04 AM
QuoteWe are the world champions of illegal immigration.
- or indeed immigration altogether.

saw this cartoon and wondered at what point did it become necessary to be a "legal" immigrant?
(http://imgsrv.gocomics.com/dim/?fh=a5fce1542fc73a172ced3767324a6416&w=750.0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 04, 2010, 03:55:19 AM
QuoteWhat's your thoughts on his handling(a week later) of the Oil leak in the gulf Katrina anyone?
Or the attempted car bomb in your back garden?

poor and slow and cant believe he didn't blame bush or the lobbyists that changed the legislation surrounding the oil rig safety features.

as for the attempted car bomb (why attempted?) im either pleased that it was a dumbass attempt and a 15 year old chemistry student could do better, or very nervous because if you wanted to cause maximum damage you would place a patsy in there with a poor attempt and then see what the reaction was so that you could get a bigger impact when you know how the police and emergency services would react. But I'm a cynic...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 06:04:45 AM
Quote from: heganboy on May 04, 2010, 03:55:19 AM
QuoteWhat's your thoughts on his handling(a week later) of the Oil leak in the gulf Katrina anyone?
Or the attempted car bomb in your back garden?

poor and slow and cant believe he didn't blame bush or the lobbyists that changed the legislation surrounding the oil rig safety features.
That's a bit of an understatement no harm to you...did you get a load of the list of people he was sending down there 12 days later ???
absolutely and completely over his head with no Idea of what he was even supposed to do...t**ser >:(
especially when I remember this out of him in Jan of last year: ::)
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17700.html
Quoteas for the attempted car bomb
Yet another massive failure for the ongoing joke that is Janet Napolitano
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on May 04, 2010, 09:32:28 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on May 03, 2010, 07:45:10 PM
Stew -  The US needs illegal workers, it really does. Maybe the current economic crisis has hurt many people - but all the people I hear bitching on the job forums and news lines in Reno are more than welcome to apply for the janitorial jobs, the McDonalds jobs and so on. They dont however. They would rather sit at home and bitch about whatever administration is in power and live off the state - at the same time crying about the mexicans taking their jobs. I would have GLADLY worked in McDonalds - or any other minimum paying job during the 8 months I was jobless - but my hands were tied in that I could only work in an area related to my degree in order to maintain legal status. I dont see the average unemployed american taking their future in their own hands right now and doing lower paying jobs just to be doing something. A slice of bread is better than no loaf - but they cant see that.

I am working as a janitor in a local hospital. Night after night I clean up piss, blood, shit, puke and anything else that comes out of a human while they are worked on in the trauma center in the Emergency Room. Does the job suck...YES. Does it pay the bills....sortof. I use to make my two week paycheck in about 5 hours worth of work before this depression (I can call it that because thats how I feel). But the old saying goes "beggars can't be choosers". There are several "professional" workers now working besides me or in other parts of the hospital to help keep a roof over their head or food for their kids.

The illegal immigrants do work the menial jobs because most can not speak or read english so the tend to fall into the "crappy" jobs. Also most of the jobs they take are paid in cash were no taxes, social security, unemployement or health insurance is taking from their income...hence the low pay that most Americans would not accept.

There is a mexican guy I work with who came to the states about 7 years ago legally, he despises the Mexicans who came here illegally and wants them deported. He states "why should these people get what they want without following the rules I had to...f**king puntas" .

Be a Republican, Democrat or Independent their are plenty of past Presidents, Congresses to blame for not controlling the borders to keep illegal imigrants from crossing the border or following up on person flying into the States and never leaving.

I was going to fly to Australia some years back to visit my old college roommate who went to school here in the States, in order to fly into OZ you had to have a round trip ticket before you board the plane. I don't know if thats the same here if someone from Europe flys here but it should be mandatory.

I hope this makes some sense, just worked a double(16hrs) so i could buy my books for summer classes, and I am dead tired.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 09:54:16 AM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2010, 11:58:44 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 03, 2010, 07:26:41 PM
"That line about the illegals only doing work the yanks wont do is a lie, a damned lie, the same shite was spouted in Ireland and nothing could have been further from the truth."

Sure it is......watch you don't get a nose bleed up on that high horse of yours :D

I am not on a high horse, I know the score, I live in the states and I have a strong opinion on this, are you suggesting that illegal aliens have the right to be living in a country that didnt authorize their entry into the country?

Of course you do :D

look out behind you Stew....I think there are some Canadians trying to sneak cross the border......better get that BIG gun of yours

SMALL MAN SYNDROME :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 10:09:13 AM
The next 9/11 links
Citing the possibility of a terrorist organization getting hold of a nuclear weapon as the greatest threat to US security, President Barack Obama persuaded 46 other countries at the recent Nuclear Security Summit to agree to secure the world's loose nuclear material.

Those leaders who came to Washington might have done more to avert a nuclear attack, however, if they had asked the US president to account for America's own loose nukes.

Of course, Obama may not even be aware of the egregious failure of the United States to secure its nuclear materials and know-how from the predation of its alleged "closest ally." But since Obama is unwilling to even "speculate" about which country in the Middle East has nuclear weapons, he could hardly be expected to acknowledge how it got them.

In a recent Antiwar.com article aptly titled "America's Loose Nukes in Israel," Grant F. Smith, director of the Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy (IRMEP) and author of Spy Trade: How Israel's Lobby Undermines America's Economy, shows how "the US is a sieve for Israeli nuclear espionage."

The massive arms smuggling network set up by David Ben-Gurion in the US in the 1940s had acquired a nuclear branch within a decade, according to Smith. The 1955 purchase of the Apollo Steel Company plant in Pennsylvania was financed by David Lowenthal, a close friend of Israel's first prime minister and a former member of the Haganah, the precursor to the Israeli Army. The following year, Zalman Shapiro, head of a local Zionist Organization of America chapter, incorporated the Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corp. (NUMEC) at Apollo. Before long, NUMEC was receiving large quantities of highly enriched uranium and plutonium from Westinghouse and the US Navy for nuclear reprocessing.

By the 1960s, the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) became suspicious of security lapses at NUMEC, and even considered suspending its "classified weapons work." A 1965 AEC audit discovered that 220 pounds of highly enriched uranium were unaccounted for. The following year, the FBI launched its own investigation, codenamed Project Divert, to monitor NUMEC's management and its frequent Israeli visitors. Nevertheless, the diversion of nuclear material to Israel continued unabated. After a Sept. 10, 1968 visit by four Israelis, including Mossad agent Rafi Eitan, a further 587 pounds of highly enriched uranium went missing.

Israel's nuclear espionage against the US didn't end with its accession to the nuclear club in the late 1960s, however. As former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds revealed, its smuggling network received crucial assistance from three high-ranking officials in the George W. Bush administration. All three have close ties to Israel's military-industrial complex.

According to the FBI whistleblower, Richard Perle and Douglas Feith provided Marc Grossman, the third highest-ranking official in the State Department, with a list of Department of Defense employees with access to sensitive data, including nuclear technology. The list also included highly sensitive personal details, such as sexual preference, problems with gambling or alcoholism and how much they owed on their mortgages. Grossman then passed on the information to Israeli and Turkish agents, who used it to "hook" those Pentagon officials. In addition, as Edmonds testified in an Ohio court case, the foreign operatives had recruited people "on almost every major nuclear facility in the United States."

After Israel and Turkey took what they wanted from the pilfered secrets, their agents offered what was left to the highest bidder. As Edmonds has told the Sunday Times, American Conservative and Military.com, nuclear information was sold on the black market, where anyone — even Al-Qaeda — could buy it.

So then, it would seem that those who shout loudest about the threat of terrorists — namely, neoconservatives like Perle, Feith and Grossman and their Israeli counterparts — are the very ones who are aiding them, at least indirectly, to acquire those much touted weapons of mass destruction.

But why, one might reasonably ask, would Israeli agents help their supposed enemies get hold of the bomb?

Well, what would be the likely outcome if Obama's worst fears of a nuclear attack on the US — or one of its allies — are realized?

Regardless of the facts, some Muslim country — most likely, Iran or Pakistan — would be blamed for aiding the terrorists. And it doesn't require an advanced degree in game theory to predict what America's reaction would be. The retaliation would be so swift and devastating that the designated evildoers might envy the fate of post-invasion Iraqis — also victims of an Israeli misdirection.

If, as Benjamin Netanyahu admitted, 9/11 was "very good" for Israel, a nuclear 9/11 might be even better. As the spellbinding effects of that traumatic event nine years ago have begun to wear off, and with Americans increasingly questioning the costs of a one-sided alliance, it may even be considered necessary.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 04, 2010, 11:41:52 AM
Again, the subject of Nuclear weapons and who has them?

Israhell have approx 300 nuclear weapons. What does uncle Sam do?
Well, he digs deep into US pockets and gives them $7 million per day.
Gives them US spies to steal US secrets and nuclear technology.
Number of countries Israhell have invaded in past 60 years?
Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.
(Plus the US on 9/11, but the its only a matter of time before the truth comes out on this)

Has Israel signed up to the NPT?   No.

Iran have no nuclear weapons.
Have Iran signed the NPT? Yes
What does uncle Sam do?
Well, he is currently drawing up plans to attack Iran,
and Israhell is planning another 9/11 to begin another "Us against the Muslims illegal war".
Number of countries Iran has invaded in the past 300 years?
None


So, why is the US/Israel so determined to invade Iran?
Yes, thats right folks, they have the "Black Gold". And lots of it......

To see the disgraceful behaviour of several countries yesterday at the UN summit just proves
the fact that the west is gearing up for an attack on Iran.

How the hell can the US, France and Britan walk out of a meeting on Nuclear weapons
whenever it was the US and France who gave Israhell the nuclear weapons?
Plus, what moral high ground can the US and Britain stand on whenever they are
responsible for 2 illegal wars that have killed over 1 million innocent people, displaced
millions more, and wrecked their countries for the sake of the "Black Gold"?

But sure then again, the more stunts like these that the US and Britain can pull off,
the easier the job will be to attack Iran. Make them out to be another bad country,
and hey presto, the stupid sheeple will will all shout, "Hey bomb the shit out of those motherfckers".
We will send our sons and daughters to another one of your illegal wars. We don't care if they
live or die, just as long as you secure the "Black Gold", and gas for our monster trucks
will be cheaper to buy at the pumps.

WAR IS PEACE

On another note, how many people in the US were shocked and angry at the discovery of
the car bomb in New York at the weekend?
And how many of those were furious that it was a white man and not a muslim with dark skin
and a long beard?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 04, 2010, 01:04:03 PM
US nuclear arsenal: A TOTAL OF 5,113 WARHEADS
- Israel: SOLE NUCLEAR POWER IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH OVER 200 NUCLEAR HEADS

The United States disclosed for the first time on Monday the overall size of its nuclear arsenal, saying it had a total of 5,113 warheads operationally deployed, kept in active reserve and held in inactive storage. Moreover, Israel is believed to be the sole nuclear power in the Middle East with more than 200 nuclear heads and is not even a signatory for the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT).

However, Washington and its main ally Israel are impudent enough to attack Iran's peaceful nuclear program claiming Tehran is seeking to develop a nuclear bomb and threatening to impose more sanctions against the Islamic republic.

Again the double standard policy seems to dominate the US talks, one can not but wonder how come the international community, led by the United Nations, doesn't raise its questions about the US and Israeli nuclear arsenals at a time it is seeking sanctions against the Islamic republic nuclear program based on "doubts" and "fears" that it may be using it for developing a nuclear bomb.   

According to figures released by the Pentagon, the total does not include warheads that have been retired and scheduled for dismantlement, an estimated 4,600 according to the Federation of American Scientists nonprofit group. The US nuclear arsenal has been reduced by 84% from its maximum level of 31,225 warheads at the end of fiscal year 1967.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Monday said that Iran's nuclear program put the world at risk and called on global nations to rally around US efforts to hold Tehran to account. "Iran is the only country represented in this hall that has been found by the IAEA board of governors to be currently in non-compliance with its nuclear safeguard obligations," Clinton said in a speech to a Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT) review conference at the United Nations.

"It has defied the UN Security Council and the IAEA and placed the future of the non-proliferation regime in jeopardy, and that is why it is facing increasing isolation and pressure from the international community," she said.

Clinton spoke to the meeting of the 189 signatories of the 1970 NPT just hours after Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad blasted the United States for threatening to use nuclear arms, triggering a sharp American response and a walkout by several delegations.

Ahmadinejad said having nuclear weapons was "disgusting and shameful, and even more shameful is the threat to use, or to use, such weapons."

"Regrettably, the government of the United States has not only used nuclear weapons but also continues to threaten to use such weapons against other countries, including Iran," he said.

The Iranian president called for states that threaten to use atomic weapons to be punished, a clear reference to a new US nuclear strategy released last month.

He urged "considering any threat to use nuclear weapons or attack against peaceful nuclear facilities as a breach of international peace and security."

Such threats should meet with "swift reaction from the United Nations and termination of all cooperation of NPT member states with the threatening aggressor state," Ahmadinejad said, adding that among the punishments that should be meted out to countries that use, or threaten to use, atomic weapons against other nations is suspension from the board of governors of the UN nuclear watchdog in Vienna.

Ahmadinejad also hinted that Israel and an unnamed European country had made nuclear threats.

His attacks against the United States and its allies triggered the walkout. Delegates from the United States, Britain, France and several non-nuclear weapons states left the assembly hall.

The Iranian leader went on to attack Israel directly, saying, "The Zionist regime continues to threaten the countries of the Middle East with its arsenal. It continues to threaten the world's countries with acts of terror and invasion, and even gets the necessary assistance for its nuclear program."

The United States' so-called nuclear posture review reduces the role of atomic weapons in US defense policy but does not rule out the use of nuclear warheads against countries like Iran and North Korea that are according to the US considered to be "NPT violators".

According to the Iranian television IRIB reported that a Fox news reporter "was angry Monday that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been appreciated by the participants of the NPT Review Conference despite his critical remarks about US policies and calling Israel as Zionist regime .
IRIB added that "in his report, Fox news reporter Eric Shawn, also expressed regret that while President Ahmadinejad denied that his country was to make nuclear bomb and instead said that the US should be punished for possessing nuclear weapons, he was still appreciated by the participants . "

Both the United States and Israel have suggested that they could use military force against Iranian nuclear facilities, which they suspect are part of a covert atomic weapons program. Iran denies pursuing atomic weapons and insists its nuclear program is limited to peacefully generating electricity.

In his speech, Ahmadinejad rejected allegations that his country is developing nuclear weapons, citing "not a single credible proof."

Clinton said the world stood at a crossroads, facing a future either of sharply reduced nuclear risk or of a spread of nuclear-armed states and groups, and that issues such as Iran's nuclear program could determine which path is taken. "Rules must be binding. Violations must be punished. Words must mean something and the world must stand together to prevent the spread of these weapons," Clinton said. "It is time for a strong international response."

She also said the United States would ratify nuclear weapons-free zones in Africa and the South Pacific and also support "practical measures" to establish the Middle East as a region free of weapons of mass destruction - which could pique US ally Israel, presumed to have a sizable nuclear arsenal. However, Clinton later told reporters that conditions for such a zone in the Middle East did not yet exist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 04, 2010, 01:44:11 PM
Times Square bomb hoax, Israeli intel group shows its hand
 
Gordon Duff
Veterans Today
Sun, 02 May 2010 13:54 EDT

Who would have believed it? Only days after a warning of an Israeli "false flag" bombing against the US "in the works" a massive car bomb is discovered in Time Square! Better yet, though no intelligence organization in the world could discover anyone claiming responsibility for this embarrassing failure, SITE Intelligence, a group rumored as the "voice of the Mossad" has placed the blame on the Pakistani Taliban.

This is the same group that has come up with numerous bin Laden "audio" tapes, seemingly, though tiny and nearly totally unstaffed, whenever it is convenient for Israel to point a finger at someone, magically Site Intelligence, run by former IDF soldier Rita Katz, whose father was executed as a spy by Saddam Hussein, makes another "unbelievable" intelligence find.

Site Intelligence finds are not only timely for Israel, when the world is focused on claims they have been planning a 'dirty bomb' attack to send the US to war against Iran, but always tend to support mysterious organizations run from the caves of the Afghanistan/Pakistan border region.

Smoking gun?

After the demise of Iraq, victim of falsified intelligence, now eliminated as an Israeli competitor, all eyes turned to Pakistan, Islam's only nuclear state. To establish footholds to destabilize Pakistan, a pro-Indian/Israeli government under President Karzai was installed in Kabul.

After 9 years, no evidence of any terrorist activity involved in 9/11 has been found in Afghanistan. The great "net" meant to catch Osama bin Laden and armies of Al Qaeda terrorists came up empty. Instead, we are told from reliable sources that Arab nations friendly to the US released criminals, transporting them to Afghanistan.

These "foreign fighters", actually little more than "extras" in a massive global theatre, kept the small US forces engaged for years, all without any purpose other than to establish that a terrorist organization must have been in Afghanistan because there certainly was one after 2002.

Surrogate warfare on Pakistan

In addition to installing a government that would work directly with Israel and India to organize terrorist attacks on Pakistan, funding to destabilize the oil and gas rich republics of the former Soviet Union had to be raised.

Opium production under the Taliban had been eliminated. The new government quickly began a resurgence of opium production and heroin processing. Aided by agents of the Indian RAW and Israeli Mossad, the governments of Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan quickly fell under the influence of the 65 billion dollar a year Afghanistan drug empire.

Though the drugs may have been from Afghanistan, multiple intelligence agencies from Israel, India, Turkey and others, aided by military contracting firms contracted to the CIA, carried this plan forward.

Continual news stories tying Pakistan to failures to suppress terrorism or rumoring involvement in terrorism themselves flowed onto the world scene through western mainstream media, providing a clear footprint of a classic Mossad operation.

Not so "unexpected"

With the demise of Al Qaeda, an unnamed Taliban organization with a website only visible to one person on earth has now declared a mysterious and shadowy war against the United States, in New York City, a city under tight security but one with a very large Israeli/Mossad presence.

This was the same city where the "dancing Israeli's," celebrated 9/11 after filming the attacks. Their advance knowledge of the attacks has been one of the many puzzle pieces tying Israel to 9/11.

However, it wasn't until the "crotch bomber" of last Christmas that the breadth of Israel's penetration of US security was demonstrated with Abdulmohammed's attack tying directly to Tel Aviv.

Anyone who visits New York is aware that security there, especially in Time Square is the highest of anywhere in the world. The intelligence organizations protecting New York, including the world's best police force, leave only one organization as capable of this kind of effort, an organization with massive resources in the area, numerous Israeli/American assets and many residual relationships with Gulliani/Kerik/Bush era friends, friends conveniently "asleep at the switch" on 9/11.

Timing

Recent intelligence leaks from several agencies have warned of an impending "9/11 style" attack on a high value target in the US or Europe. Reports indicated that a conventional bomb enhanced with nuclear material would be used. Such a weapon would indicate sufficient "WMD" credentials in whipping up the necessary war frenzy to get the American public to overlook the history of falsified intelligence that drove them to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

However, a quickly thrown together "prank" terror attack taking advantage of the environmental disaster in the gulf and the president's presence there, when coordinated with the press campaign already in motion attempting to smear the Obama administration with the Katrina failures during the Bush presidency, is just too convenient.

With Iranian president Ahmadinejad and Secretary of State Clinton both scheduled to be in New York in the next 24 hours, and recent stories out of Israel trying to tie Iran to the Taliban, the issue of "timing" is a critical one.

The "managed press" aspect of this attack, the phony "web based" confession, the "keeping you safe" scare tactics and the continual drumming of Islamophobia is unmistakable.

Israel ties to Pakistan Taliban well established

The group blamed in the Site Intelligence/Israeli report, the Pakistani Taliban, has been responsible for hundreds of attacks in Pakistan, killing thousands of citizens. However, reliable sources have tied this group directly to Mossad/RAW training camps inside Afghanistan and Balochistan. The Pakistani Taliban have long been allies of Israel and India with 2000 terrorist trainers inside Afghanistan arming Pakistani Taliban terrorist group.

This has been confirmed, not only in direct briefings with the Pakistani ISPR and ISI but US military intelligence sources as well, who dispute the number of terrorist trainers, not their presence.

Terrorist groups inside Balochistan, the remote Pakistan province said to be a haven for Mossad attacks against Iran, claim to be headquartered in Israel. These groups work directly with the Pakistani Taliban and are another indication of this current "stunt" turning back on non-Islamic planners.

Always the same, "who gains?"

With Iran taking the propaganda offensive to the United States, a nation increasingly distancing itself from, not only the idea of supporting an Israeli attack on Iran, but Israel herself. Israel is under pressure to reestablish itself as America's partner in a long discredited "war on terror" that has been a huge embarrassment to the US.

A "very public" attack like his is a message to President Obama. "We can go where we want and our control of the press will put the blame on anything we do, on you."

With over 90% of America's terror arrests turning out to be innocent bystanders, some tortured for years, untold numbers "disappeared," Bush era failures have soured public support for hunting terrorist leaders who have increasingly been either captured by Pakistan or have been found to be negotiating with US forces. The "war on terror" had become an "Israeli franchise," making billions in increased military aid, some covertly transferred to Israel through "weapons replenishing" and fat military contracts taken from American firms.

The Marines in Afghanistan are using MRAP vehicles built in Israel, a country with nearly one million guest workers while America has over 30 million unemployed and an unused technology and industrial base better equipped for such production.

With the signature of this bombing being so close to that of the "crotch bombing," an attack with Israeli fingerprints from Nigeria to Yemen to Amsterdam, the "superfast" accusation against a Pakistani group was no surprise.

Ongoing investigation/FOX "Israeli asset" News attacks Obama

With New York police discounting the Pakistan connection to the bombing immediately, Fox News has unleashed an attack on the Obama administration in a well orchestrated manner, accusing democrats of "failing to protect the American people."

With both Site Intelligence and Fox News tied directly to Israel and the signature and timing of this attack showing clear Israeli fingerprints, Fox may be right.

America may be unable to protect itself from a nation still seen by most Americans as a close ally. No other nation has the capability of such an attack or the influence to orchestrate the news, an act already in motion.

If any finger is pointing anywhere, Fox News is telling us "Israel did it."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 04, 2010, 02:25:46 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 09:54:16 AM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2010, 11:58:44 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 03, 2010, 07:26:41 PM
"That line about the illegals only doing work the yanks wont do is a lie, a damned lie, the same shite was spouted in Ireland and nothing could have been further from the truth."

Sure it is......watch you don't get a nose bleed up on that high horse of yours :D

I am not on a high horse, I know the score, I live in the states and I have a strong opinion on this, are you suggesting that illegal aliens have the right to be living in a country that didnt authorize their entry into the country?

Of course you do :D

look out behind you Stew....I think there are some Canadians trying to sneak cross the border......better get that BIG gun of yours

SMALL MAN SYNDROME :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

If you are too ignorant to know that countries should secure their borders, especially the yanks you have issues.

The Canadian border is well policed unlike the Mexican one.

As for my gun, my home has been attacked twice, I have a wife and two kids that live with me, you bet yer arse I have a gun.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 04, 2010, 02:27:27 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 04, 2010, 11:41:52 AM
Again, the subject of Nuclear weapons and who has them?

Israhell have approx 300 nuclear weapons. What does uncle Sam do?
Well, he digs deep into US pockets and gives them $7 million per day.
Gives them US spies to steal US secrets and nuclear technology.
Number of countries Israhell have invaded in past 60 years?
Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.
(Plus the US on 9/11, but the its only a matter of time before the truth comes out on this)

Has Israel signed up to the NPT?   No.

Iran have no nuclear weapons.
Have Iran signed the NPT? Yes
What does uncle Sam do?
Well, he is currently drawing up plans to attack Iran,
and Israhell is planning another 9/11 to begin another "Us against the Muslims illegal war".
Number of countries Iran has invaded in the past 300 years?
None


So, why is the US/Israel so determined to invade Iran?
Yes, thats right folks, they have the "Black Gold". And lots of it......

To see the disgraceful behaviour of several countries yesterday at the UN summit just proves
the fact that the west is gearing up for an attack on Iran.

How the hell can the US, France and Britan walk out of a meeting on Nuclear weapons
whenever it was the US and France who gave Israhell the nuclear weapons?
Plus, what moral high ground can the US and Britain stand on whenever they are
responsible for 2 illegal wars that have killed over 1 million innocent people, displaced
millions more, and wrecked their countries for the sake of the "Black Gold"?

But sure then again, the more stunts like these that the US and Britain can pull off,
the easier the job will be to attack Iran. Make them out to be another bad country,
and hey presto, the stupid sheeple will will all shout, "Hey bomb the shit out of those motherfckers".
We will send our sons and daughters to another one of your illegal wars. We don't care if they
live or die, just as long as you secure the "Black Gold", and gas for our monster trucks
will be cheaper to buy at the pumps.

WAR IS PEACE

On another note, how many people in the US were shocked and angry at the discovery of
the car bomb in New York at the weekend?
And how many of those were furious that it was a white man and not a muslim with dark skin
and a long beard?

You are a clampett of the highest order.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on May 04, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
Its obvious Stew watches to much Fox news.  Spend a few days around NY till you see how live can go on without all this crap about your status in the country. I am illegal, i pay my taxes so i have every right to use  the hospitals etc. or is it my taxes that send the poor young rednecks to places like Iraq to get killed.  Anyhow if there is any problem I'll just marry an American to gain status just like everyone else does these times
As for the bomb, i was thinking along the same lines as Hegenboy. It emay have been a dry run to see reactions of police etc.
Interesting that it is an American that is wanted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on May 04, 2010, 04:08:16 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on May 04, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
Its obvious Stew watches to much Fox news.  Spend a few days around NY till you see how live can go on without all this crap about your status in the country. I am illegal, i pay my taxes so i have every right to use  the hospitals etc. or is it my taxes that send the poor young rednecks to places like Iraq to get killed.  Anyhow if there is any problem I'll just marry an American to gain status just like everyone else does these times
As for the bomb, i was thinking along the same lines as Hegenboy. It emay have been a dry run to see reactions of police etc.
Interesting that it is an American that is wanted.

Struck me as a Tim McVeigh type of effort, but the target doesn't make sense for that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 04:27:17 PM
Oh fcuk..I was wondering how long it would take
Till McVeigh would be mentioned in this...the PC
Passiveness knows no bounds on this board :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on May 04, 2010, 04:30:11 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on May 04, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
Its obvious Stew watches to much Fox news.  Spend a few days around NY till you see how live can go on without all this crap about your status in the country. I am illegal, i pay my taxes so i have every right to use  the hospitals etc. or is it my taxes that send the poor young rednecks to places like Iraq to get killed.  Anyhow if there is any problem I'll just marry an American to gain status just like everyone else does these times
As for the bomb, i was thinking along the same lines as Hegenboy. It emay have been a dry run to see reactions of police etc.
Interesting that it is an American that is wanted.

Out of nothing more than sheer curiosity - how do you pay taxes on illegal status? Do you have the use of a social security number or something?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on May 04, 2010, 04:35:35 PM
TO his name has come up alot this last few days not just on here.
Puckoon i have a tax id number which is easily obtained no matter of status. Not sure if the the same applys for all states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 04, 2010, 04:55:01 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 04, 2010, 03:55:19 AM
poor and slow and cant believe he didn't blame bush or the lobbyists that changed the legislation surrounding the oil rig safety features.
Other countries require remote control cut-off devices, the oil industry in the US persuaded the US government not to require them.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704423504575212031417936798.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on May 04, 2010, 05:18:29 PM
Nypd have got their main suspect he was arrested last night at JFK. Several others have been captured in Pakistan. Man held at JFK says he acted alone.
;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 05:25:10 PM
Was his name Smith, Jones or McVeigh  ;) by any chance?
And where was the plane bound for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 05:34:02 PM
Bottom line is, the media along with some on here would have
loved nothing more if this had have been a white boy Teapartier...thrills runing up legs, soiling the front of the jeans would have been the order of the day!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 05:37:44 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 05:25:10 PM
Was his name Smith, Jones or McVeigh  ;) by any chance?
And where was the plane bound for?

Islamabad.....where Al-CIA da are very chummy with the USA.

Pakistan is the single biggest threat  to world peace......guess who armed them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on May 04, 2010, 05:39:37 PM
He was an American citizen.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 04, 2010, 05:41:38 PM
US officials say they have arrested a man in connection with the car bomb left in New York's Times Square on Saturday.

The man is of Pakistani origin, has been named as Faisal Shahzad, and is expected to appear in court later.

The US Attorney General, Eric Holder, said Shahzad was picked up as he attempted to leave the country from New York's JFK airport.


No doubt the US will step up its campaign in Pakistan with more illegal Drones dropping bombs along the border.

Pakistan, India and Israhell are the 3 countries who have NOT signed the NPT.

And guess who is best buddies with all 3 and arms them unconditionally?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 05:43:44 PM
He was  Pakistani who was naturalised as an American last year(April), then left the US in June to return only recently.....
I would have thought that this should have raised at least one flag with intelligence agencies. :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 04, 2010, 05:52:25 PM
15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. The head of Al Queda is Saudi. Most of the money to fund Al Queda is Saudi.

Which country is the number one supplier of arms to Saudi Arabia?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from meat and potatoes

"As for my gun, my home has been attacked twice, I have a wife and two kids that live with me, you bet yer arse I have a gun."

Is it a Super Soaker? :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 04, 2010, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from meat and potatoes

"As for my gun, my home has been attacked twice, I have a wife and two kids that live with me, you bet yer arse I have a gun."

Is it a Super Soaker? :D

nah, but it would blow a nice hole in yer feckin arse if you ever come near my door. :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 07:01:41 PM
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2010, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from meat and potatoes

"As for my gun, my home has been attacked twice, I have a wife and two kids that live with me, you bet yer arse I have a gun."

Is it a Super Soaker? :D

nah, but it would blow a nice hole in yer feckin arse if you ever come near my door. :-*
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 07:42:27 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from meat and potatoes

"As for my gun, my home has been attacked twice, I have a wife and two kids that live with me, you bet yer arse I have a gun."

Is it a Super Soaker? :D
Similar to your mattress most mornings then :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 07:48:32 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 07:42:27 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from meat and potatoes

"As for my gun, my home has been attacked twice, I have a wife and two kids that live with me, you bet yer arse I have a gun."

Is it a Super Soaker? :D
Similar to your mattress most mornings then :)
Did your woman tell you then? ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 04, 2010, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 07:48:32 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 07:42:27 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from meat and potatoes

"As for my gun, my home has been attacked twice, I have a wife and two kids that live with me, you bet yer arse I have a gun."

Is it a Super Soaker? :D
Similar to your mattress most mornings then :)
Did your woman tell you then? ;)

Eh should I tell him or should one of ye tell him. :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 08:10:05 PM
Na sorry..it's men shes into Hedley.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 08:10:52 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 08:10:05 PM
Na sorry..it's men shes into Hedley.

Do you know any? ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 08:13:42 PM
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2010, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 07:48:32 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 07:42:27 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 04, 2010, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from meat and potatoes

"As for my gun, my home has been attacked twice, I have a wife and two kids that live with me, you bet yer arse I have a gun."

Is it a Super Soaker? :D
Similar to your mattress most mornings then :)
Did your woman tell you then? ;)

Eh should I tell him or should one of ye tell him. :D

Penny dropped..... ;D thanks Holly ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 05, 2010, 08:38:37 AM
I hope and pray that George can kick start this. I'm weary of it so I can only imagine how the Palestinians and Israelis feel.


Mitchell to give peace train a fresh push
But perhaps the big question today is: Are there still believers in the US-sponsored peace process?

We've seen this before in the past. The US special envoy to the Middle East heads to the region amid signs that peace talks, bogged down for what seems like an eternity, are about to resume. The peace process, an American coinage that dates back to the 1970s, is going into its penultimate thrusts. It has become an institution, a diplomatic edifice that thrives and withers depending on geopolitical agendas and regional crises.

Since Oslo and the signing of the Washington Accords in the early 1990s between Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, both of whom have since been eliminated, the peace process has taken on a new direction. There was much promise and hope in the beginning; long days and nights of arduous negotiations, going over minute details, complicated maps with A, B and C area markings, a breakthrough in Wye River, another in Sharm El Sheikh, only to be followed by a setback in Camp David and another in Taba. This is how difficult and frustrating the search for an ultimate settlement has been.

And then it all changed so quickly. A Palestinian Intifada in 2000, instigated by a provocative visit by opposition leader Ariel Sharon to Al Aqsa and the Sacred Sanctuary on the eve of his election victory, sent the peace process into a free fall. Two years later, Israel reoccupied the entire West Bank, reversing Palestinian fortunes, besieged Arafat for months before his mysterious demise.

9/11, the war on terror, the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq derailed the peace process completely. It was downhill from there; the Road Map, Annapolis and other gestures, but none was genuine enough to jump-start the lifeless peace wagon. It stood idle for years as suspicions, distrust and accusations between Israel and the Palestinians poisoned the atmosphere. In the meantime Israel launched two wars; against Lebanon in 2006 and on Gaza in 2008-09, before electing a right-wing government composed of radical coalition parties headed by an intransigent Benjamin Netanyahu.

The PNA under Mahmoud Abbas lost political ground as well. Radical factions had contested the 2006 elections and defeated moderate Fatah in Gaza and the West Bank. A Hamas-led government quickly collapsed, all credit to the Americans and Israelis, and Palestinian internal strife finally led the eviction of the PNA from Gaza, which fell under Israeli siege.

In brief, the first decade of the third millennia has not been good for the peace process institution. In the past years Israel has had a change of heart, refusing to yield on final status issues and looking for ways to derail the prospect of ending the conflict through a two-state solution. Their backs against the wall, the Arabs, and Palestinians, could only tout the peace option. For them no other option exists.

In came President Barack Obama with his promise to breathe life back into the dead body of the peace process. But his early attempts were met with stiff, and humiliating, Israeli resistance. They were willing to talk but without preconditions. East Jerusalem, the presumptive capital of the future Palestinian state, was beyond the scope of negotiators, and so were the "legal" settlements, Jordan Valley, borders and refugees.

It is a tough challenge for George Mitchell, Obama's envoy to the region, and the Palestinians, divided and all, and the Arabs, now also divided over the credibility of the process. After many false alarms, Mitchell is back again, and this time he hopes to give the peace train a much-needed nudge forward. It will be a humble beginning; indirect talks, no conditions, no clear agenda and no obvious finishing line. To resume negotiations in such a symbolic manner, 18 years after Oslo and the big achievements of Rabin and Arafat, is no breakthrough.

But it's not déjà vu all over again. The mood has changed significantly since Oslo and Camp David. Certainly regional realities are different. Perhaps the big question today is: Are there still believers in the peace process?

Two seasoned Americans, a politician and a scholar, have given separate answers to this question in the past few weeks. Both have lost their faith in the peace process. Writing in this month's Foreign Policy magazine Aaron David Miller, who had served as an adviser on the Middle East to Republican and Democratic secretaries of state for over 30 years, declares that he had lost his faith in the false religion of Middle East peace. And he presents a solid argument.

Miller believes that America has lost the magic associated with its mediator role, that the Israel-Palestine conflict has no ownership, that both parties have no historical leaders who are willing to take historical decisions, that Palestine no longer represents a central issue in Middle Eastern politics — with two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and a third possibly against Iran — and that the influence of the Israeli lobby in Washington will circumvent any attempt by Congress or the White House to force a deal on the Jewish state. In Miller's view Washington must come to the conclusion that it cannot implement a deal; that its power has limits.

Professor John Mearsheimer, co-author of a controversial book on the influence of the Israeli lobby on America's foreign policy, believes the two-state solution is no longer viable. Speaking at the Palestine Center in Washington DC last month, Mearsheimer believes Israel will not allow the Palestinians to have a viable state of their own in Gaza and the West Bank.  "Regrettably," he says, "the two-state solution is now a fantasy." Instead, those territories will be incorporated into a "Greater Israel," which will be an apartheid state bearing a marked resemblance to white-ruled South Africa.

Nevertheless, a Jewish apartheid state is not politically viable over the long term, he adds. In the end, it will become a democratic bi-national state, whose politics will be dominated by its Palestinian citizens. "In other words, it will cease being a Jewish state, which will mean the end of the Zionist dream."

Both views may disagree on the final outcome of the conflict, but both believe the peace process is dead; that it cannot deliver a two-state solution. There are others who share these beliefs based on the conviction that Israel's political establishment has finally and irrevocably abandoned the basic tenets that launched Oslo and extended the life of the peace process institution all these years.

The alternatives are daunting and unpredictable. One thing is for sure and that is the region cannot go on suspended in midair between a state of no war and no peace. The process, the occupation and the future of both Jews and Arabs in historical Palestine are converging at a point of culmination. Few can dare predict what that point will finally mean!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 05, 2010, 11:42:39 AM
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-05-06/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy/ (http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-05-06/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy/)

You gotta chuckle at these boys
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 05, 2010, 04:07:14 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 05, 2010, 11:42:39 AM
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-05-06/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy/ (http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-05-06/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy/)

You gotta chuckle at these boys
My favorite bit.

"I had surgery," Rekers said, "and I can't lift luggage. That's why I hired him."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2010, 11:50:09 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 05, 2010, 11:42:39 AM
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-05-06/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy/ (http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-05-06/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy/)

You gotta chuckle at these boys

Rentboy.com  :D :D

The average homophobic fundamentalist must tear their hair out at their church leaders and political representatives! How many of these outspoken warriors for Jesus have been exposed as closet gays messing around with prostitutes or young boys! A partner of  the mighty Dr. James Dobson no less as well! No doubt he'll be heading into the clinic for a bit of good old fashioned christian treatment to cure him of his homosexuality!

On one of the previous ones... I was passing through Minneapolis-St. Paul airport a couple of years back and saw a bunch of college lads taking pictures of themselves in a toilet cubicle! The scene of Senator Larry Craig's attempt to entice an undercover cop with a bit of sub-partition footsie has become a tourist attraction!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on May 06, 2010, 02:18:02 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 04:27:17 PM
Oh fcuk..I was wondering how long it would take
Till McVeigh would be mentioned in this...the PC
Passiveness knows no bounds on this board :o

What are you talking about? PC? passiveness? I'm really not following you.
Just the fact that it didn't work struck me as a lone nutter type thing as opposed to anything organized. My opinion had nothing to do with politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 06, 2010, 05:50:11 AM
The price of courage
No amount of lies, intimidation or blackmail could sell Israeli war crimes as self-defense, or smear Israeli critics as anti-Semites

In his report on Gaza issued late last year, prominent South African jurist Richard Goldstone accused Israel and Hamas of committing war crimes. His language also showed awareness of the fact that the former is an occupying power with most sophisticated weapon arsenal (as reflecting in the number of Palestinian victims), and the latter is a besieged, occupied faction in a state of self-defense. Although Goldstone must have been aware of the kind of hysteria such a report would generate, he still did not allow ideological or ethnic affiliation to stand between him and his moral convictions.

Despite some initial apprehension — owing to the fact that Goldstone is a self-declared Zionist with links to Israel — many justice and peace advocates were comforted by the man's past record. He was a former judge of the Constitutional Court of South Africa and former Prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunals of the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda.

In April 2009, the United Nations Human Rights Council appointed Goldstone to lead the mission of investigating war crimes committed by Israel in the devastating war in Gaza between Dec. 27, 2008 and Jan. 18, 2009. Goldstone insisted that the mandate must also include alleged violations committed by Palestinians. At the end, he was asked to set his own mission's mandate, a reflection of the level of trust placed in him by the UNHRC.

The report's findings were published in September 2009, providing one of the most vivid, sober and unmistakable recommendations ever issued by a UN mission since Israel began its open-ended campaign of massacres and violations on the territorial sovereignty and human dignity of the Palestinian people and its Arab neighbors.

What has been shocking for Israel and its supporters is the nature of the report's recommendations. It urges the international community to "start criminal investigation in national courts...where alleged perpetrators (of war crimes) should be arrested and prosecuted in accordance with internationally recognized standards of justice." But more than this, the anger in Israelis and Zionists everywhere has largely been inspired by the fact that Goldstone is supposed to be "one of them." He cannot be easily derided either as a "self-hating Jew," nor can he be accused of anti-Semitism, the ready-to-serve warrant of anyone who dares criticize Israel's criminal conduct.

My own interest in Goldstone is motivated by three reasons. First, Gaza is still suffering under the very conditions that Goldstone so aptly described in his report. Nothing has happened since then to ease the pain of the victims, nor to heed his call for justice.

Second, there is the ongoing "controversy" over the man's wish to take part in his grandson's bar mitzvah in South Africa. He has now been forced to negotiate with a group of South African Jewish leaders in order to participate in this coming of age ceremony. South Africa's chief rabbi, Warren Goldstein, accused Goldstone of being a liar whose report is "delegitimizing Israel." The South African Jewish Board of Deputies accused Goldstone of "selling out."

It behooves Rabbi Goldstein to remember that it is only the barbarous killing of thousands of innocent civilians that is "delegitimizing" Israel. As for "selling out," Goldstone is indeed a "sell out" as far as any blind tribal affiliations are concerned, affiliations that seem to matter more to the Jewish Board of Deputies than the cause of justice, fairness, equality and peace that are enshrined in all major world religions and philosophies, notwithstanding Judaism.

That leads to the third reason that compelled the revisiting of this subject — Norman Finkelstein's most recent volume, This Time We Went Too Far: Truth and Consequences of the Gaza Invasion.

Finkelstein is not an ordinary author. His readers know well that one rarely finds so many strong qualities in a single writer: Compelling academic research, unbending moral clarity, lucidity in style, and a refusal to dehumanize the subject and the victim. This Time We Went Too Far will serve in academic and human rights circles — as Goldstone will serve a similar purpose in the legal arena — as the categorical indictment of Israel's brutal policies in Gaza. More, it will forever shame those who have allowed titles, money, prestige and, again, blind tribal affiliation to prevent them from seeing the untold inhumanity that took place, and continues to take place in Gaza and the rest of Palestine. Sadly, as such cruelty perpetuates, so do the diatribes of Israel's apologists. Finkelstein is no stranger to vile attacks from Israel's diehard friends, and Goldstone will also eventually get used to it.

Finkelstein positions his book within proper historical contexts. He summons the events that lead to, coincided with and followed the Israeli war on Lebanon in the summer of 2006, which also killed and wounded thousands, and destroyed much of the country's civilian infrastructure. The similarities are too stark, but are made much clearer by Finkelstein's patient evaluation of both events. Moreover, he revisits the Israeli war and invasion of Lebanon of 1982, revealing much of Israel's bizarre but predictable behavior.

Finkelstein provides lengthy and immaculate research that highlights the repellent propaganda which preceded and followed the massacre in Gaza. Although he makes various references to the Goldstone mission and report earlier in the book, he dedicates most of the book's epilogue to the Goldstone report and its many consequences. His revelations and analysis are encouraging in that they suggest that things are in fact changing. Israel, a rouge state by any reasonable standards, will never reclaim its fictitious old status as a beacon of progress and democracy. No amount of lies, intimidation or blackmail could sell Israeli war crimes as self-defense, or smear Israeli critics as anti-Semites. The book makes a very convincing case to back up this assertion.

"The times they are a-changing," wrote Finkelstein. True, and that is a most impressive achievement that was made possible by the likes of Jimmy Carter, John Mearsheimer, Stephen Walt, Richard Goldstone, Richard Falk, John Dugard, Finkelstein himself, and the innumerable authors, journalists and bloggers who tirelessly worked to document the truth.

But it is also the courage of the Palestinian people in Gaza and elsewhere that made it possible for us to take such stances. Our efforts dwarf in comparison to their courage, resilience and sacrifices.

Finkelstein's book is a testimony to all of that and much more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on May 06, 2010, 11:15:50 AM
Hedley, what's the source of the above?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 06, 2010, 01:49:12 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on May 06, 2010, 11:15:50 AM
Hedley, what's the source of the above?

— Ramzy Baroud (www.ramzybaroud.net) is a columnist and the editor of PalestineChronicle.com.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 06, 2010, 05:13:36 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on May 06, 2010, 02:18:02 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 04:27:17 PM
Oh fcuk..I was wondering how long it would take
Till McVeigh would be mentioned in this...the PC
Passiveness knows no bounds on this board :o

What are you talking about? PC? passiveness? I'm really not following you.
Just the fact that it didn't work struck me as a lone nutter type thing as opposed to anything organized. My opinion had nothing to do with politics.
Really not that hard to follow at all Tyssam... I never heard so much mention of white this and white that out of the
media when the video surfaced of the NY bomber, almost delirious that it could potentially be a white Teapartier or
someone who was opposed to the health care bill according to Mayor Bloomberg ::)
in other words, absolutely anything but mention the likely fact of it being an extremist attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdbUwlM4bK4
What a fecking embarrassment ::)

Then when he learned that it was indeed a Muslim extremest he put's a call out for sensitivities around Muslim people living here.
Now I have to ask a question, would that be the same sensitivities that would have been afforded the TeaPartiers group if indeed
they had been guilty of this? the media and the Washington elites have no problem offending and insulting everyday Americans
but hey we need to be sensitive to our ( silent on all of this as usual ) Muslim brotherhood!
That's PC passiveness in my book >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2010, 10:50:28 PM
You may have a point regarding the reaction had it in fact been some tea party person or a militia man or some leftist extremist. But those movements, associated with white America, do not have an international terrorist movement purportedly acting in their name. While such an act would damage whatever cause it was, at least temporarily in PR terms, the damage would be minimal. Rush Limbaugh and the like can try to discredit the environmental movement by pointing to a couple of isolated, deranged ecoterrorists burning down housing projects (or his recent suggestion that it was actually they that caused the Deepwater Horizon disaster) or the fuss over the climate change emails, but it does not change the reality of the problems or the legitimacy of the concerns. Similarly for those in the tea party movement who have genuine concerns about deficits and spending who get attacked from the other end of the spectrum and dismissed because some of their fellow travellers are morons carrying Obama as Hitler/Stalin/Joker/illegal alien/muslim/antichrist posters etc. But muslims in the US are not so deeply rooted in American history and society that they can brush off the acts of extremists as a tiny unrepresentative minority. There is an assumption among many in the US that they all (secretly or not) approve of what those who act in their name are doing, terrorism-wise. Sarcastic "religion of peace" rhetoric sound familiar? There are some 9/11 family members kicking up a fuss this week because an Islamic cultural center is being built in downtown Manhattan, basically saying that because it is muslim, it should not have been approved in an area so close to the World Trade Center. To me, anyway, it smacks of kind of a domestic type of dispute - you can say what the f**k you want about the person in your family, but they're still part of your family and will remain so. You have to be a little more sensitive when it comes to the neighbours.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2010, 11:37:52 PM
Don't know anything about this guy or how true his piece is, except that a Google news search for something on the muslim response to the Times Square car bomb attempt turned up this Huffington Post piece...

Failed Time Square Bombing: Blame the Muslims?
      
Frank Fredericks

Founder of World Faith and Conar Records
Posted: May 4, 2010 06:58 PM


In the shocking and fortunately failed case of the attempted bombing of Time Square this past weekend, I began seeing a pattern in terminology defining anti-government violence and terrorism. Many reports say, "It is unsure whether or not this was an act of terrorism." What they mean, of course, is, "We don't know if the culprits are Muslims."

This is a pattern because of other examples in which the changing of the identity of the assailant changes the crime. When Andrew Stack of Austin flew his plane into the IRS building just over two months ago, it was determined by Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo not to be terrorism, and media outlets like The New York Times, Fox News, and CNN echoed this refrain.

Why? When Arabs or South Asians with falsely Islamic, anti-American rhetoric fly an airplane into a building, it's terrorism. When an anti-American, vaguely-Christian white man does the same, how we could we label it any differently? This is a problem that is equally shared by both conservative and liberal media outlets, including some of my favorite personalities like Jon Stewart and Bill Maher, as well as politicians.

After a South Park episode depicted Muhammad supposedly in a bear costume, a New York-based website called Revolution Islam responded with threats to the creators of South Park. Soon thereafter, almost all news sources warned of "Muslim retaliation." But can these guys be called Muslims? Zachary Chesser, one of the punks from Revolution Islam, isn't exactly your typical Muslim. A troubled kid who used to draw satanic images and dress in goth attire, his recent "conversion" to Islam can be compared to kids 40 years ago becoming communists to rebel against their parents.

Yet the media did a terrible job of catching this, instead lumping them together with actual Muslims from both in the United States and abroad. I agree whole-heartedly with the right of shows like South Park to use free speech, and they certainly don't target one group over another. (I remember seeing Jesus die by machine gun in a specific Christmas special of South Park.) Hell, I am admittedly a South Park fan. Some of my Muslim friends found it funny. Others didn't appreciate it as much, but all were much more pissed off that some jackasses claiming to be speaking for Muslims were misrepresenting them by calling for violence. They share their faith with those terrorists no more than I share my faith with the "Christian" terrorists who bomb abortion clinics.

This uncovers a greater issue, and that is the strength of Muslims voices against violence. The Gallop World Poll conducted the largest ever survey of Muslim opinions worldwide. Their findings revealed that 93 percent of Muslims believe that there is never a case for violence against civilians. When given the chance to write in a response, many cited the Quranic verse 5:32, "Killing a man is like killing all of mankind," a verse used to condemn violence. Of the seven percent who considered violence acceptable, they often cited political rather than religious reasons. Further research reveals that this seven percent is no more religious than the majority.

You may often hear Americans claim that not enough Muslims condemn violence and terrorism. However, that simply could not be further from the truth. There have been many Muslim religious leaders speaking out against terrorism, including some of the most prominent, like Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri (who issued a 600-page fatwa on the issue), Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, Abdel Motei Bayyoumi, and many others. There have been many organizations started by Muslims to mobilize against terrorism and improve Muslim-West relations, such as ASMA, Free Muslims Coalition, Muslims Against Terrorism, The Cordoba Initiative, and many more. Also, there have even been massive demonstrations by Muslims against terrorism, in places like India (over one million people participated), London, and even across the US.

Why isn't this common knowledge? It's simply not covered by the media at all. I don't believe this is a product of agenda as much as it's just the nature of the business. Conflict news retains viewers and attracts ad revenue.

Terrorism is not a Muslim invention, and the vast majority of Muslims don't consider those who act in violence to be Muslims.

Terrorism is the latest step in a long tradition of anti-conventional warfare. Non-traditional warfare has many historical examples, such as the American Revolution, when the British cried foul play due to revolutionaries' lack of uniforms and their targeting of generals over soldiers. Guerrilla warfare, defined by attacking and withdrawing and confusing the lines between civilians and combatants, was used by the Filipino rebels against Americans during the US occupation of the Philippines, by the Sardinistas in Nicaragua, and by Ho Chi Minh in the Vietnam War. Terrorism, defined loosely as "violence targeting civilians by non-state actors with the intent to cause public fear," is the latest in this underdog non-conventional warfare progression. Terrorism has been used by ETA in the Basque region of Spain, by the Irgun against the British in Palestine (leading up to the creation of Israel), and by the IRA to fight the British presence in Northern Ireland.

Terrorism is wrong and despicable. However, it is not a Muslim invention, and those who claim Islamic reasoning won't be the last to use it. Even more importantly, by their own religious tendencies, by fatwas by religious leaders around the world, and by Muslims' rejection of their violence, they should not be bundled together with Muslims who despise terrorism.

Whether or not the culprit in the attempted bombing of Times Square was an angry Arab or a wacky white guy, the act is terrorism, no matter where the culprit is from or what he or she believes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-fredericks/failed-time-square-bombin_b_562041.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-fredericks/failed-time-square-bombin_b_562041.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on May 07, 2010, 07:13:30 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 06, 2010, 05:13:36 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on May 06, 2010, 02:18:02 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 04, 2010, 04:27:17 PM
Oh fcuk..I was wondering how long it would take
Till McVeigh would be mentioned in this...the PC
Passiveness knows no bounds on this board :o

What are you talking about? PC? passiveness? I'm really not following you.
Just the fact that it didn't work struck me as a lone nutter type thing as opposed to anything organized. My opinion had nothing to do with politics.
Really not that hard to follow at all Tyssam... I never heard so much mention of white this and white that out of the
media when the video surfaced of the NY bomber, almost delirious that it could potentially be a white Teapartier or
someone who was opposed to the health care bill according to Mayor Bloomberg ::)
in other words, absolutely anything but mention the likely fact of it being an extremist attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdbUwlM4bK4
What a fecking embarrassment ::)

Then when he learned that it was indeed a Muslim extremest he put's a call out for sensitivities around Muslim people living here.
Now I have to ask a question, would that be the same sensitivities that would have been afforded the TeaPartiers group if indeed
they had been guilty of this? the media and the Washington elites have no problem offending and insulting everyday Americans
but hey we need to be sensitive to our ( silent on all of this as usual ) Muslim brotherhood!
That's PC passiveness in my book >:(

Don't know what's in the youtube video, but I know it's not me. Nor am I Bloomberg. So I'm still a bit confused regarding your outburst about my original post
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 07, 2010, 07:17:45 AM
The next bomb in America
As long as US troops are occupying Muslim countries, Al-Qaeda's cause will prosper

Faisal Shahzad was no Timothy McVeigh, let alone a Mohamed Atta. McVeigh, who killed 168 people in Oklahoma City in 1995 with a massive truck-bomb, took the trouble to learn how to make a bomb that actually works. Atta, who piloted one of the planes that crashed into the Twin Towers on 9/11, even learned how to fly. Shahzad, who left a vehicle rigged to explode near New York's Times Square on Saturday night, was a bumbling amateur.

He might still have killed some people, of course. "(The bomb) certainly could have exploded and had a pretty big fire and a decent amount of explosive impact," said New York mayor Michael Bloomberg. But the casualties would have been in the dozens, at worst, and more likely only a few. Not enough, in other words, to drive Americans crazy again.

I'm choosing my words carefully here. Ever since the 9/11 attacks nine years ago, the US media (with the eager assistance of the Bush administration until the end of 2008) have worked to persuade Americans that terrorism is the greatest threat facing the country. The enterprise has succeeded, and most Americans actually believe that terrorism poses a serious danger to their personal safety.

Quite a few Americans have already died as a result of that belief, not just in the wars overseas that were justified in the name of fighting terrorism but even at home. In the first year after 9/11, for example, many Americans chose to drive long distances rather than risk flying, and highway deaths went up by 1,200 people as a result. Nobody died in the planes.

Nobody has been killed by terrorists in the United States since 9/11, but the fear is so great that just one big attack with lots of casualties would still have disastrous consequences. There would be huge public pressure for the government to do something very large and violent, in the delusionary belief that is the way to defeat terrorism. That is what I mean by "driving Americans crazy."

The main goal of terrorist attacks anywhere is to drive the victims crazy: To goad them into doing stupid, violent things that ultimately play into the hands of those who planned the attacks. Terrorism is a kind of political jiu-jitsu in which a relatively weak group (like Al-Qaeda) attempts to trick a far stronger enemy (like the US government) into a self-defeating response.

The US response to 9/11 was certainly self-defeating. A more intelligent strategy would have been to try to split the Taleban regime of Afghanistan, many of whose leading members were outraged by the threat of an American invasion that the action of their Arab guests had brought down on their heads. A combination of threats and bribes might have persuaded the Taleban to hand over Osama Bin Laden and his whole Al-Qaeda crew.

It was certainly worth trying first, but the political pressure on the White House to invade Afghanistan was extreme. Even though those who knew anything about terrorist strategies understood that that was exactly what Bin Laden wanted Washington to do.

Osama Bin Laden's goal was to build support among Muslims for his militant ideology by convincing them that they were under attack by the "infidels." The best way to do that was to sucker the "infidels" (i.e. the Americans) into invading Muslim countries.

The 9/11 attacks succeeded in triggering a US invasion of Afghanistan (and Bush then gave Bin Laden even more help by invading Iraq as well). As a result, Al-Qaeda has made some progress toward its ultimate goal of sparking militant revolutions in the Arab world and even the broader Muslim world, though probably not nearly as much as Bin Laden hoped.

Since Washington was already doing what Bin Laden wanted, he had no reason to carry out further major terrorist operations in the United States after 9/11, and there is no evidence that Al-Qaeda has attempted any. Shahzad's amateurish bomb certainly did not meet that organization's highly professional standards.

Would Al-Qaeda have gone with a bomb triggered by dozens of firecrackers, which were intended to set two jugs of petrol (gasoline) alight, in turn causing three propane gas cylinders to explode, and finally setting off a much bigger explosion of eight bags of fertilizer (except that it was of the non-explosive kind)? I think not.

But would Al-Qaeda now be interested in carrying out a big attack in the United States, if it could manage it? Probably yes, for by the middle of next year US troops will be gone from Iraq. There is reason to suspect that Barack Obama's ultimate goal is to get them out of Afghanistan too, even if he first has to protect his flank politically by reinforcing them.

As long as American troops are occupying Muslim countries, Bin Laden's cause prospers. If they leave, the air goes out of his balloon. He therefore now has a strong motive for mounting a major terrorist operation on American soil.

The goal would be to drive Americans crazy enough that they decide to keep fighting the "war on terror" on Arab and Afghan soil. The last thing Al-Qaeda wants is for the "infidels" to go home.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 09, 2010, 08:59:55 AM
VIENNA: Israel's secretive nuclear activities may undergo unprecedented scrutiny next month, with a key meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency tentatively set to focus on the topic for the first time, according to documents shared with The Associated Press.

A copy of the restricted provisional agenda of the IAEA's June 7 board meeting lists "Israeli nuclear capabilities" as the eighth item - the first time that that the agency's decision-making body is being asked to deal with the issue in its 52 years of existence.

The agenda can still undergo changes in the month before the start of the meeting and a senior diplomat from a board member nation said Friday the item, included on Arab request, could be struck if the US and other Israeli allies mount strong opposition. He asked for anonymity for discussing a confidential matter.

Even if dropped from the final agenda, however, its inclusion in the May 7 draft made available to The AP is significant, reflecting the success of Islamic nations in giving concerns about Israel's unacknowledged nuclear arsenal increased prominence.

The 35-nation IAEA board is the agency's decision making body and can refer proliferation concerns to the UN Security Council - as it did with Iran in 2006 after Tehran resumed uranium enrichment, a potential pathway to nuclear weapons.

A decision to keep the item would be a slap in the face not only for Israel but also for Washington and its Western allies, which support the Jewish state and view Iran as the greatest nuclear threat to the Middle East.

Iran - and more recently Syria - have been the focus of past board meetings; Tehran for its refusal to freeze enrichment and for stonewalling IAEA efforts to probe alleged nuclear weapons experiments, and Damascus for blocking agency experts from revisiting a site struck by Israeli jets on suspicion it was a nearly finished plutonium producing reactor.

Iran and Syria are regular agenda items at board meetings.

Elevating Israel to that status would detract from Western attempts to keep the heat on Tehran and Damascus and split the board even further - developing nations at board meetings are generally supportive of Iran and Syria and hostile to Israel.

That in turn could stifle recent resolve by the world's five recognized nuclear-weapons powers - the US, Russia, Britain, France and China - to take a more active role in reaching the goal of a nuclear-free Middle East.

Inclusion of the item appeared to be the result of a push by the 18-nation Arab group of IAEA member nations, which last year successfully lobbied another agency meeting - its annual conference - to pass a resolution directly criticizing Israel and its atomic program.

Unlike the board, the conference cannot make policy.

Still, the result was a setback not only for Israel but also for Washington and other backers of the Jewish state, which had lobbied for 18 years of past practice - debate on the issue without a vote.

A letter to IAEA chief Yukiya Amano by the Arab group that was also shared with the AP urged Amano to report to the board what was known about Israel's nuclear program "by including a list of the information available to the Agency and the information which it can gather from open sources." The April 23 Arab letter urged Amano to enforce the conference resolution calling on Israel to allow IAEA inspections of its nuclear facilities.

Israel has never said it has nuclear weapons but is universally believed to possess them.

The latest pressure is putting the Jewish state in an uncomfortable position. It wants the international community to take stern action to prevent Iran from getting atomic weapons but at the same time brushes off calls to come clean about its own nuclear capabilities.

Additionally, Amano, in a letter obtained Wednesday by the AP, has asked foreign ministers of the agency's 151 member states for proposals on how to persuade Israel to sign the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

Egypt has proposed that a Nonproliferation Treaty conference now meeting at UN headquarters in New York back a plan calling for the start of negotiations next year on a Mideast free of nuclear arms.

The US has cautiously supported the idea while saying that implementing it must wait for progress in the Middle East peace process. Israel also says a comprehensive Middle East peace settlement must come first.

Still, Washington and the four other nuclear weapons countries recognized as such under the Nonproliferation Treaty appear to be ready to move from passive support to a more active role.

In her speech to the UN nuclear conference on Monday, US Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Washington would support "practical measures for moving toward that objective." Washington also has been discussing it with the Israelis, said a Western diplomatic source, who asked for anonymity since he was discussing other countries' contacts.

Russian arms negotiator Anatoly I. Antonov, speaking on behalf of the five Nonproliferation Treaty nuclear powers, said these nations were "committed to full implementation" of a Middle East nuclear free zone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 11, 2010, 08:23:29 AM
Israel can't conceal nukes now
There is a subtle shift in US policy that indicates Israel can no longer conceal its nuclear weapons under its so-called policy of "nuclear ambiguity."

For decades, American leaderships have emulated the three wise monkeys whenever anyone has challenged them on the topic. When it comes to their Middle East ally Israel, they've chosen to see no evil, hear no evil and say no evil, even when such a stance has made them vulnerable to accusations of bias and cut the ground from under their WMD disarmament arguments vis-à-vis the rest of the planet.

American officials regularly shy away from the subject seen as an absolute taboo in Washington akin to Holocaust denial, but behind closed doors many would say that there is no moral equivalence between a responsible democracy such as Israel being armed with nuclear weapons and Iran's alleged nuclear ambitions. Translated, this means that Israel is "our friend" whereas Iran isn't.

However, given that Israel has twice been on the point of unleashing its nukes, such arguments fail to stand up to scrutiny. Ernst David Bergmann, the man who from 1954 to 1966 was the chairman of the Israel Atomic Energy Commission, said it all: "There is no distinction between nuclear energy for peaceful purposes or warlike ones...We shall never again be led as lambs to the slaughter."

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan together with many of the region's leaders has frequently condemned "the West's silence" on the topic.

When Middle East leaders have called for a nuclear-free Middle East, until recently, Washington has shown little enthusiasm because the only country in the region that actually possesses nuclear bombs — as far as is known with any certainty — is Israel. Indeed, in 2006, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert admitted as much during an interview when he said Iran aspires "to have a nuclear weapon as America, France, Israel and Russia." Olmert subsequently attempted to eat his words by saying the quote was taken out of context.

Worse, Israel has been handed carte blanche to accuse other nations of covertly developing nukes and attack them. The irony is that Israel has had an undeclared nuclear weapons program since the 1960s and is estimated to possess more than 400 thermonuclear weapons and warheads as well as nuclear submarines. Israel is also alleged to have undeclared capabilities for biological and chemical warfare.

In June, 1981, Israel bombed Iraq's French-built Osirak reactor at Tuwaitha, which resulted in Saddam Hussein ordering his nuclear scientists to build a bomb. Then in September, 2007, Israel attacked an unused military site in Syria's eastern desert, while accusing Damascus of colluding with North Korea to construct a nuclear facility. In both instances, Israel got away scot-free with its unprovoked military aggression.

But signs are that Israel may not be able to wrap an invisible cloak around its nuclear weapons for very much longer. In the first place, Iran has agreed in principle to a uranium exchange scheme proposed by its allies Brazil and Turkey. This would involve Tehran swapping its low-level enriched uranium with nuclear rods enriched abroad to a level of 20 percent, required for medical purposes. If Iran were to accept the plan — monitored by the nuclear watchdog the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) – it would go a long way to dousing the international heat on that country leaving Israel trapped in the headlights.

Secondly, and more importantly, US President Barack Obama says he is committed to turning the Middle East into a nuclear-free zone and is believed to be working closely with Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak to arrange a conference on ways to tackle this.

Egypt has long attempted to create a level playing field with calls to bring Israel's nukes out of the shadows. "If major countries wish to address Iran's nuclear dossier, they can do that by bringing Israel and Iran to the negotiating table," said Egypt's Ambassador to the UN Maged Abdelaziz during a recent newspaper interview.

Thirdly, following an NPT Review Conference held last week in New York, the United Nations Security Council issued a statement urging all states to join the NPT and confirming its members' commitment to a nuclear-free Middle East. The five permanent UNSC members are also open to studying proposals "aimed at taking concrete steps in this direction." The statement is clearly targeted at Israel since Iran is already a signatory to the NPT, under the terms of which Tehran has been obliged to open its doors to IAEA inspection and monitoring.

And last but not least, for the first time ever, an IAEA board meeting scheduled for June 7 is set to focus on "Israel's nuclear capabilities", according to a leaked provisional agenda. However, there are no guarantees, as objections from the usual pro-Israel suspects the US, Britain and France could quash the discussion. If those countries decide not to interfere, this would go a long way in assuring the rest of the world that, at last, the international community is serious about its non-nuclear weapons objectives.

But let's not get too excited. Until now, Washington's references to Israeli nukes have been couched or implicit. Unless President Obama takes Israel publicly to task on the issue and spells his demands out clearly, Israel will remain off the hook. Naming and shaming Israel is important else Obama's motives may come into question. Does he seriously want Israel to abandon its policy of nuclear ambiguity and join the NPT? Or is this a ploy designed to persuade Arab nations to put pressure on Iran and/or to "encourage" Israel to quit settlement expansion and pursue peace.

Whatever President Obama's true intentions, Israelis are getting nervous. "Jerusalem is increasingly jittery that cracks are appearing in the nearly half-century-old US policy of upholding Israel's right to maintain its nuclear ambiguity," writes the Jerusalem Post. I, for one, can't wait to see whether those "cracks" will be wide enough to shatter Israel's nuclear fortress ending its status of exceptionality once and for all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on May 11, 2010, 09:55:50 AM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 11, 2010, 08:23:29 AM
Whatever President Obama's true intentions, Israelis are getting nervous. "Jerusalem is increasingly jittery that cracks are appearing in the nearly half-century-old US policy of upholding Israel's right to maintain its nuclear ambiguity," writes the Jerusalem Post. I, for one, can't wait to see whether those "cracks" will be wide enough to shatter Israel's nuclear fortress ending its status of exceptionality once and for all.

When Israel gets nervous, things get more dangerous. When Israel gets jittery, there usually follows a war. If Israel sees its nuclear capability under threat, Israel will find a way to take that off the agenda, probably by putting Mossad to work and concocting some incident that will purport to show Israel under imminent threat itself and following up with another mini-war.

For some reason, I find all this more frightening than reassuring. Obama better know what he's doing or the Israelis will run rings around him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 11, 2010, 10:51:30 AM
Quote from: Hardy on May 11, 2010, 09:55:50 AM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on May 11, 2010, 08:23:29 AM
Whatever President Obama's true intentions, Israelis are getting nervous. "Jerusalem is increasingly jittery that cracks are appearing in the nearly half-century-old US policy of upholding Israel's right to maintain its nuclear ambiguity," writes the Jerusalem Post. I, for one, can't wait to see whether those "cracks" will be wide enough to shatter Israel's nuclear fortress ending its status of exceptionality once and for all.

When Israel gets nervous, things get more dangerous. When Israel gets jittery, there usually follows a war. If Israel sees its nuclear capability under threat, Israel will find a way to take that off the agenda, probably by putting Mossad to work and concocting some incident that will purport to show Israel under imminent threat itself and following up with another mini-war.

For some reason, I find all this more frightening than reassuring. Obama better know what he's doing or the Israelis will run rings around him.

The hawks in the Israeli government have been trying to escalate things with Lebanon and Syria over the past few months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 12, 2010, 08:20:07 AM
Mideast tension could spark catastrophe: Medvedev
By ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: May 11, 2010 22:56 Updated: May 11, 2010 22:56

DAMASCUS: Russia's president said Tuesday that Israeli-Arab tensions threaten to draw the Middle East into a new catastrophe, adding Moscow's weight to a diplomatic push to ease antagonism between Israel and Syria.

The Russian and Syrian presidents, meeting in Damascus, also affirmed ally Iran's right to develop a peaceful nuclear energy program, as world powers press for new economic sanctions to try to stop what they say is really a drive for an atomic weapons capability.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, whose country has been building up its influence as a Middle East mediator, pledged its assistance in pushing the region toward peace.

"Tensions in the Middle East threaten to lead to a new explosion or even a catastrophe," he said.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu charged Tuesday that Iran is trying to provoke a conflict between Israel and Syria.

"They are spreading falsehoods in order to escalate tensions, and it has no basis," he said during a tour of military installations near the Israel-Lebanon border. "We want stability and peace," he said, offering Syria peace talks without preconditions.

Last month, Israeli President Shimon Peres accused Syria of providing Scud missiles to Hezbollah militants in Lebanon and adding to an arsenal that the Iranian-backed Shiite militants say can reach all parts of the Jewish state. Syria denied the accusation and warned such talk seemed calculated to set the stage for military action.

Before Medvedev's visit, Peres' office said the Russian president agreed to deliver a message to Syrian President Bashar Assad seeking to ease the tensions.

At a joint news conference with Assad, Medvedev did not mention whether he had delivered a message.

Assad, addressing the reporters, leveled more accusations against Israel over its conflict with the Palestinians.

"Expelling Palestinians from Jerusalem, attacking holy sites and besieging Palestinians in Gaza are steps and measures that could completely derail the peace process," he said.

US-mediated indirect peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians began last week after 17 months of deadlock.

Syria had also been expected to use Medvedev's two-day visit to lobby Moscow to block new UN sanctions against Iran over its nuclear program. Russia, which has veto power as a permanent member of the Security Council, has been reluctant to back a fourth round of tougher penalties.

Assad said sanctions would be "useless and would complicate chances of reaching a solution." Diplomacy and sanctions have so far failed to persuade Iran to stop parts of its nuclear program that could serve as a possible pathway to weapons production. Iran insists its program is only geared toward peaceful uses like energy generation, but Tehran has not fully cooperated with an investigation by the UN nuclear watchdog agency.

In a joint statement issued after their talks, Assad and Medvedev called for a nuclear weapons free Middle East and urged Israel to join the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and open up its nuclear facilities to the UN monitoring agency.

Israel is widely believed to have a nuclear arsenal, though it does not acknowledge that.

On Monday Assad met with the leaders of two other Mideast mediators, Turkey and Qatar. Turkey, which mediated four rounds of indirect peace talks between Syria and Israel in 2008, offered to try to revive those efforts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 14, 2010, 10:43:01 AM
US in quagmire
Seeing the warm welcome extended to the Afghan president on his US trip, it is hard to believe that only weeks ago Washington was seething with anger and frustration at Hamid Karzai's behavior and there were even dark mutterings by US officials that he might be mad.

Karzai is in fact far from insane but he faces a range of daunting challenges that might drive a lesser man to distraction. The American problem is that despite the lessons they ought to have learned from their woeful blunders in Iraq, they still insist on viewing the struggle in Afghanistan purely through their own eyes. Only perfunctory efforts seem to have been made to understand the range of contrary pressures that are pulling the Afghan administration in several different directions at the same time.

Yes, Karzai is corrupt. Yes, he made a blatant and pathetic attempt to fix his re-election. Yes, his government is inept. Yes, the entire bureaucratic system is shot through with payola to the fury and despair of ordinary Afghans. The Americans have two reactions to these realities and neither is right. The first is that it is an outrage that those who hold power in Afghanistan should betray the commitment in lives and coin that Washington and its allies have invested in defeating the Taleban and rebuilding the country. The second, more dangerous response is that Afghanistan is a hopeless case, a sink of corruption incapable of reforming itself. In this analysis Karzai is a pawn to be kept in power while NATO continues to train up the Afghan security forces and focuses on the military defeat of the insurgency.

The danger of this latter analysis is that it will further undermine Karzai's already weak political position with his warlord allies and confirm the Taleban's characterization of his administration as a US cipher. One very good reason Karzai has tried to distance himself from Washington is the continuing flow of civilian casualties caused by NATO actions. He is also impatient of US advice. Time was when the Bush White House forbade any overtures to "moderate" Taleban and Karzai complied. When the British were discovered to be conducting secret negotiations, two key Pashtun experts, one of them a Brit, were expelled from the country. Now Obama has reversed the policy and talks are on with some Taleban leaders, but it seems clear this is a NATO-led initiative with Karzai playing a back-up role.

While this reflects the low esteem in which Washington holds the Afghan president, despite all the glad-handing during his US visit, it also undermines Karzai at home. And therein lies the Catch-22 in the US-led Afghan policy. The Taleban insurgency can only ever end if there is an accommodation with the Afghan government, which includes the Tajiks, Uzbeks, Aimaks, Hazaras as well as Karzai's majority Pashtun community, from whom the Taleban also draw their strength. But as long as Karzai is seen to be kept in power by NATO, some part of the Taleban insurgency will always continue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2010, 11:40:54 PM
Lewis Black's take on Glenn Beck and the Nazi card... :D :D :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxUprB7rhBo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxUprB7rhBo)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on May 15, 2010, 12:54:06 AM
Brilliant, J70.  Brilliant.  Thanks for posting the link.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 15, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
CAIR questions silence on Florida mosque bombing
By AGENCIES

Published: May 15, 2010 03:40 Updated: May 15, 2010 03:40

WASHINGTON, D.C.: The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) questioned the silence of public officials and national media about a bomb attack Monday on a Florida mosque.

CAIR, which on Wednesday offered a $5,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the perpetrator, said media coverage has for the most part been restricted to Florida and that there have been no public condemnations of the bombing at the national level.

On Monday evening, a bomb exploded outside the Islamic Center of Northeast Florida in Jacksonville. Local, state and national law enforcement authorities are investigating the attack as a possible act of domestic terrorism.

"It is disturbing that, outside the state of Florida, our fellow citizens are largely unaware of the fact that a potentially-deadly bomb exploded at an American house of worship," said CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad. "One can only imagine the public and media response if someone with a Muslim name was the perpetrator of this apparent terror attack."

He congratulated local, state and national law enforcement agencies for their work on the case, but said he knows of just one national media outlet — AOL News — that reported on the bombing.

Awad attributed the attack to a "growing atmosphere of anti-Muslim sentiment" nationwide, and in particular in Florida.

Last week, CAIR called on national Republican leaders to repudiate Islamophobic campaign advertisements for a Florida GOP congressional candidate.

Last month, CAIR reported that a Muslim university professor was appointed to the Jacksonville, Fla., Human Rights Commission despite a prolonged smear campaign by the anti-Islam hate group ACT! for America, whose leader says Muslims should not be allowed to hold public office.

The FBI has been asked to investigate allegations that the same hate group has been harassing members of Florida's Muslim community.

In Miami, anti-Islam advertisements were initially pulled from buses because of community concerns. The ads were later re-instated following threats of legal action by the sponsors, whose leader Pamela Geller has written on her personal blog that "Hitler and the Nazis were inspired by Islam" and that "lies and deception [sic] to advance Islam is a mandate."

CAIR is America's largest Muslim civil liberties and advocacy organization. Its mission is to enhance the understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding.


All quiet on the western front :o ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 15, 2010, 09:38:34 AM
A day after releasing security video of the man suspected of firebombing a Jacksonville mosque, law enforcement officials acknowledged they had not gotten nearly as many calls as they expected. ::) :-[

"Someone out there knows who this person is," said FBI Special Agent-in-Charge Jim Casey of Jacksonville office. "Anyone who recognizes this individual needs to contact us." :-[

Casey declined to reveal how many calls the FBI has gotten. :-[

Authorities found remnants of a crude pipe bomb in the explosion, which occurred about 9:30 p.m. Monday at the Islamic Center of Northeast Florida on St. Johns Bluff Road.

"This was not a harmless prank," Casey said. "We found shrapnel from the blast a hundred yards away close to [Florida] 9A."

At the time of the blast about 60 people were inside. The firebomb caused minor damage to the building. There were no injuries.

Casey said the minor damage was primarily due to the strength of the mosque building. If anyone had been closer to the blast, they would have been injured or killed, he said. :o

The video has been sent to the main FBI office in Quantico, Va., to be run for facial analysis along with video of another incident on April 4. The April disturbance occurred when a man entered the center and shouted "Stop this blaspheming," before people chased him away. He's also wanted for questioning although authorities say they don' think it's the same man in Monday's video.

Officials with the FBI, Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, U.S. Attorney's Office and Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said they were following several leads in the case. But they declined to discuss those leads or speculate on a motive.

The case is being investigated as a possible hate crime on suspicion of domestic terrorism. The perpetrator also could face civil rights charges. Kevin Frein  with the U.S. Attorney's Office in Jacksonville said it is difficult to say exactly what charges until more is known about the motive.

Authorities said it was unclear if the bombing had anything to do with the recent controversy over Parvez Ahmed's appointment to the Jacksonville Human Rights Commission. Ahmed, who is Muslim, attends the center.

Lt. Mike Williams with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office Homeland Security Division said there is no evidence that hate groups in North Florida are behind this. :-[

Times-Union writers Jeff Brumley and Jim Schoettler contributed to this report.

larry.hannan@jacksonville.com,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on May 15, 2010, 12:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2010, 11:40:54 PM
Lewis Black's take on Glenn Beck and the Nazi card... :D :D :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxUprB7rhBo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxUprB7rhBo)

that deserves its own thread.... classic ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on May 15, 2010, 01:12:48 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on May 15, 2010, 12:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2010, 11:40:54 PM
Lewis Black's take on Glenn Beck and the Nazi card... :D :D :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxUprB7rhBo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxUprB7rhBo)

that deserves its own thread.... classic ;D

Very good. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 16, 2010, 08:54:06 AM
RIYADH: In an attack on US policy in the Middle East, former Saudi ambassador to Washington Prince Turki Al-Faisal on Saturday said President Obama had until September to push for a settlement of the Palestinian issue.

If nothing happens by then, then the US president has to make "the morally decent" gesture and recognize Palestine as a sovereign independent state, he said.

Prince Turki also attacked Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for sending out "confusing signals" on nuclear nonproliferation in the Middle East, describing them as "unacceptable."

He also said that the US had lost "the moral high ground" it had acquired after 9/11 in the Middle East because of its "negligence, ignorance and arrogance."

Prince Turki, who now heads the King Faisal Center for Research and Islamic Studies, was speaking in Riyadh at a symposium to mark the 35th anniversary of Arab News. The event was also attended by diplomats and Saudi business figures as well as Prince Faisal bin Salman, chairman of Arab News' parent company, the Saudi Research and Marketing Group (SRMG), Khaled Almaeena, editor in chief of Arab News, and other leading SRMG figures.

In his hard-hitting speech, the prince said that there had to be a UN resolution guaranteeing the territorial integrity of Iraq to prevent some of its neighbors from trying to seize parts of the country. He accused Iran in particular of having territorial ambitions there. He also accused Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al-Maliki of trying to hijack the recent elections. On Afghanistan, he said the policy there had to shift from nation building to destroying the terrorists.

He added that a UN resolution on Iraq's territorial integrity is the only way of thwarting the "sinister" designs of those of its neighbors intent on exploiting its conflict to their own advantage. The "forces of evil" are still very much alive and active within the country, he said.

Making a grim prediction of upcoming events in Iraq, he asked his audience to imagine what would happen "once internal strife and fighting escalates." Making matters worse has been the "deliberate effort on the part of the incumbent Prime Minister Nuri Al-Maliki to hijack the result of the elections and deny the Iraqi people their legitimately elected government."

The consequences, he said, would be more bloodshed and potential civil war. He said there has to be international guarantees ensuring Iraq remains a functioning sovereign state. The alternative would be "regional conflict on a scale not seen since the Ottoman-Safavid wars of the 17th and 18th centuries."

It was the Obama administration, however, that bore the brunt of his criticism. Prince Turki said President Obama had proved eloquent in his vision of a two-state solution of the Palestinian issue, but this was not enough. He has to be "equally eloquent" in implementing it. The US has to be the "Big Bear pushing us all" — Israelis and Arabs alike — to make it happen, he said. "It is not enough to talk the talk. He has to walk the walk."

If there is no resolution by the September deadline set by the Arab League foreign ministers in Cairo earlier this month, the US should recognize the Palestinian state "and then pack up, leave us in peace and let the Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese negotiate directly with the Israelis." From Obama there must be "no more platitudes, good wishes and visions, please."

In Afghanistan, the prince called on the White House to likewise change its policy. "The inept way in which the US has dealt with President Karzai beggars belief." The result is that both sides are resentful of each other with a "sour taste in their mouths." The aim has to be to destroy the terrorists, then withdraw and leave the Afghans to sort their country out themselves.

"The US should hunt down the terrorists on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistan border, arrest them or kill them and get out and let the Afghans people deal with their problems," he said.

A continuing US presence only fuels the conflict. "As long as GI boots remain on Afghan soil they remain targets of resistance for the Afghan people." The Taleban of today, he said, were not the same a decade ago. They are no longer exclusively Pashtun warriors. "They are now any and every Afghan of whatever ilk who raises arms against the foreign invaders," he said.

By declaring them the enemy "America has declared the people of Afghanistan enemy," he warned.

On Iran, the prince said that the international community's stance over its nuclear ambitions has been on the wrong footing since the start; the "reset button" needs to be pushed. The stick and carrot approach will not work and there has to be a level playing field, he said. "You cannot ask Iran to play on one level while you allow Israel, India, Pakistan and North Korea to play on other levels."

He was highly critical of the way in which the US has handled the nuclear issue and its wider regional implications, singling out Hillary Clinton in particular. She has damaged efforts to make the Middle East nuclear-weapon-free when — following the UN's Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty review conference in New York at the beginning of the month which supported the idea — she said that the conditions for such a zone do not as yet exist.

"I hope President Obama, who has made universal disarmament his goal ... will find the way to correct his secretary of state's nullification of making our area free of weapons of mass destruction," the prince said.

The speech is not the first occasion that Prince Faisal has criticized the Obama administration. In May last year, in an interview with the German press agency DPA he said that President Obama had said "all the right things" about the Palestine issue, but "what we need now is some action." Last September, he labeled Obama's talk about energy independence as unrealistic "demagoguery." However, on Saturday diplomats and others attending the symposium were in agreement that it was the most hard-hitting to date. There were noticeable deep intakes of breath in the halls when he referred to American "arrogance."

On a lighter note, responding to a question about reported efforts by Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman to whip up anti-Saudi sentiment, he was decidedly unperturbed. He said that Lieberman had done more to serve the Arab cause than any other Israeli — a reference to Lieberman's extreme political views and the distaste with which they have been received, particularly in Europe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Massey-135 on May 18, 2010, 02:14:28 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on May 03, 2010, 07:45:10 PM
Stew -  The US needs illegal workers, it really does. Maybe the current economic crisis has hurt many people - but all the people I hear bitching on the job forums and news lines in Reno are more than welcome to apply for the janitorial jobs, the McDonalds jobs and so on. They dont however. They would rather sit at home and bitch about whatever administration is in power and live off the state - at the same time crying about the mexicans taking their jobs. I would have GLADLY worked in McDonalds - or any other minimum paying job during the 8 months I was jobless - but my hands were tied in that I could only work in an area related to my degree in order to maintain legal status. I dont see the average unemployed american taking their future in their own hands right now and doing lower paying jobs just to be doing something. A slice of bread is better than no loaf - but they cant see that.

reminded me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-PII2rSLVo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 24, 2010, 12:38:16 PM
Itching to fight another Muslim enemy - Robert Parry
Nobody in the major US media or in politics will ever be hurt by talking tough and flexing muscles

If you read the major American newspapers or watch the propaganda on cable TV, it's pretty clear that the US foreign policy establishment is again spoiling for a fight, this time in Iran.

Just as Iraq's Saddam Hussein was the designated target of American hate in 2002 and 2003, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is playing that role now. Back then, any event in Iraq was cast in the harshest possible light; today, the same is done with Iran.

Anyone who dares suggest that the situation on the ground might not be as black and white as the Washington Post's editors claim it is must be an "apologist" for the enemy regime. It's also not very smart for one's reputation to question the certainty of the reporting in the New York Times, whether about Iraq's "aluminum tubes" for nuclear centrifuges in 2002 or regarding Iran's "rigged" election in 2009.

It's much better for one's career to clamber onto the confrontation bandwagon. Nobody in the major US media or in politics will ever be hurt by talking tough and flexing muscles regarding some Muslim "enemy." And, if the posturing leads to war, it will fall mostly to working-class kids to do the fighting and dying while the bills can be passed along to future generations.

Even groups that should know better — like Votevets.org representing veterans of the Iraq and Afghan wars — have been piggybacking on the organized hate campaign against Ahmadinejad and Iran to advance other political agendas. In cable TV ads, Votevets.org uses Ahmadinejad's face and Iran's alleged manufacture of some Improvised explosive devices to press the case for alternative energy.

Indeed, looking at this American propaganda campaign objectively, you would assume that the only acceptable outcome of US differences with Iran is another Iraq-like ratcheting up of tensions, using Washington's influence within the UN Security Council to impose escalating sanctions, leading ultimately to another war, as if the lessons of Iraq have already been forgotten.

This warmongering attitude was on display again Monday, when a possible breakthrough regarding Iran's refining of nuclear material — its agreement to ship a substantial amount to Turkey in exchange for nuclear rods for medical research — was treated more as a negative than a positive.

The New York Times promptly framed the agreement reached by Iran, Turkey and Brazil as "complicating sanctions talk," while the Washington Post rushed out an analysis with the headline, "Iran creates illusion of progress in nuclear negotiations."

The Post's analysis followed a Saturday editorial denouncing Brazil's President Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva for even trying "yet another effort to 'engage' the extremist clique of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad." The Post's neocon editorial writers reprised the usual anti-Iran propaganda themes with all the arrogance that they once showed in declaring as flat fact that Saddam Hussein possessed stockpiles of WMD. After the US invaded Iraq and found no WMD caches, the Post's editorial page editor Fred Hiatt acknowledged to Columbia Journalism Review that if there indeed were no WMD, "it would have been better not to say it."

(More than 4,300 American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead, in part, because of Hiatt's mistake.)

On Saturday, an unchastened Hiatt and his crew were back again spouting more fictions, this time about Iran, like the oft-repeated claim that the Iranian election last June was "fraudulent," apparently because the Post's preferred candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, lost.

An analysis by the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes earlier this year found that there was little evidence to support allegations of fraud or to conclude that most Iranians viewed Ahmadinejad's reelection as illegitimate.

Not a single Iranian poll analyzed by PIPA — whether before or after the June 12 election, whether conducted inside or outside Iran — showed Ahmadinejad with less than majority support. None showed the much-touted Green Movement's candidate Mousavi ahead or even close.

"These findings do not prove that there were no irregularities in the election process," said Steven Kull, director of PIPA. "But they do not support the belief that a majority rejected Ahmadinejad."

So, while many in the West may agree that Ahmadinejad is an unpleasant politician who foolishly questions the historical accuracy of the Holocaust and makes other bombastic statements, it is nevertheless a propaganda fiction to continue asserting that he was not the choice of most Iranian voters.

The point is not insignificant, because the claim about Iran's "fraudulent" election has been cited repeatedly as fact by the Post, the Times and other major US news outlets, feeding the rationale of Israel and US neocons in demanding "regime change."

If Ahmadinejad was actually elected — even if the process had flaws — then the goal of "regime change" would involve ousting a popularly chosen leader, much like the CIA helped do in 1953 when another anti-Western Iranian leader, Mohammed Mossadegh, was removed from office and replaced by Washington's preferred choice, the Shah of Iran.

But the American hostility toward Ahmadinejad — and the US media's annoyance at any rapprochement between Washington and Tehran — present other dangers, particularly now that Iran has agreed to a previous Western demand that it transfer 1,200 kilograms of low-enriched uranium out of the country, in this case to Turkey, where it would be stored.

The Iran-Turkey-Brazil agreement would then give Iran the right to receive about 265 pounds of more highly enriched uranium from Russia and France in a form that could not be used for a nuclear weapon, but could be put to use for peaceful purposes, such as medical research.

Even though this new deal parallels a plan that the Obama administration favored last October, US officials have indicated that they might balk at the agreement now because the 2,640 pounds of low-enriched uranium represents a lower percentage of Iran's total supply than it did last fall, possibly more like half than two-thirds.

"The situation has changed," one diplomat told the New York Times.

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs also indicated that the new agreement would not stop the United States from seeking harsher sanctions against Iran.

"The United States will continue to work with our international partners, and through the United Nations Security Council, to make it clear to the Iranian government that it must demonstrate through deeds — and not simply words — its willingness to live up to international obligations or face consequences, including sanctions," Gibbs said.

The Washington Post's analysis by Glenn Kessler portrayed the new agreement as "a victory" for Iran that has allowed it to create "the illusion of progress in nuclear negotiations with the West, without offering any real compromise to the United States and its allies."

However, perhaps the bigger concern among American neocons is that the Iran-Turkey-Brazil accord might weaken the rationale for pressing ahead either with a military attack against Iran's nuclear facilities or with a "regime change" strategy that would use sanctions and covert political operations to turn the Iranian people against their government.

By reducing the prospects of Iran building a nuclear weapon — something that Iran has vowed that it has no intention of doing and that US intelligence agencies concluded in 2007 that it wasn't doing – the new agreement could remove the scariest claim that Israel and its supporters have used in justifying a confrontation with Iran.

So, what might otherwise appear as good news — i.e. an agreement that at minimum delays the possibility of an Iranian bomb and could be a first step toward a fuller agreement — is presented as bad news.

"The Obama administration now faces the uncomfortable prospect of rejecting a proposal it offered in the first place — or seeing months of effort to enact new sanctions derailed," Kessler explained.

As usual, too, the articles by the Washington Post and the New York Times left out the relevant fact that Israel, which has been aggressively pushing for greater transparency from Iran over its suspected interest in nukes, itself has one of the world's most sophisticated – and undeclared – nuclear arsenals.

Even as President Barack Obama has demanded more nuclear transparency from all countries, he himself continues the longstanding charade of US presidents, dating back to Richard Nixon, pretending that they don't know that Israel has nuclear weapons.

In line with that history of double standards, Washington's neocon opinion leaders now are framing what could be a positive step toward peace — the Iran-Turkey-Brazil accord — as another failure.

But the larger truth may be that the neocons are simply chafing under the possibility that their hunger for a new conflict in the Middle East might be delayed indefinitely and that — heaven forbid — cooler heads might prevail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 24, 2010, 06:06:49 PM
Fair play to McClintock stepping in to keep Calderon in check
cause Lord knows we've become accustomed to foreign leaders
coming to the US and dictating to Obama on how he should run the country
that best suits their needs without so much as a wimper in defense ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldx8gZDwZWs&feature=youtube_gdata
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 27, 2010, 04:10:13 AM
US secret missions
The news that American special forces were from last September ordered to be deployed in both friendly and hostile countries within the Middle East in the campaign against international terror is both disturbing and puzzling.

Gen. David Petraeus, the head of US Central Command, has signed off the tasking of elite special forces troops to undertake surveillance missions and partner with local forces in the campaign against Al-Qaeda and its militant allies. Now while special forces around the world certainly do mount surveillance operations, these are generally a preparation for military action of some sort.

If that is what Washington is doing, then the US military simply cannot be acting outside its UN mandates in Iraq and Afghanistan. The imperative of countering terrorism cannot justify the infringement of any national sovereignty. Implicit in Petraeus' detailed seven-page instructions is the unacceptable reality that the US will send its special forces into a country without authorization, if the local military is either not trusted or if authorization for such an incursion would certainly be refused.

The order also speaks of cultivating local contacts to boost the surveillance missions. Signing up informers in an attempt to generate fresh flows of information is more associated with the cloak-and-dagger world of established intelligence agencies than special forces from the military.

And it is a high-risk strategy. Were a covert US mission to be caught and confronted by local troops, the diplomatic consequences could be dire. Once again, it seems that the means the US is choosing to combat terrorism could probably have the effect of boosting it, by reinforcing the notion that Washington is acting as a quasi-colonial power and bullying friendly states into doing what it wants in the same way that it has bullied post-invasion Iraqi governments.

However, the puzzling element to the leaking of this secret order is that it is absolutely the last thing that a commander would wish, because it immediately compromises any missions that are either under way or planned. However good soldiers in the US Delta Force, Navy Seal and Army Ranger units might be, their chances of success are much diminished if it is known they are coming.

And therein perhaps lies the explanation for the revealing of instructions which because they must have been tagged "Top Secret" could hardly have escaped from the Pentagon without some connivance by the US military. The Iranians are already paranoid about US interference in their country. Confirming their fears will stir Tehran into further efforts to counter US spies. It can be expected that the protection of sensitive facilities will be further improved. Yet Washington has more than enough satellite technology to watch the Iranians. It does not need to send special forces crawling around taking photographs.

Maybe therefore the Petraeus order is a bluff, designed to prompt the Iranians into showing where their key sites actually are. As Tehran increases its defenses, US satellites will watch and record the coordinates, which can be programmed into their weapons systems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 27, 2010, 04:20:42 AM
How soon will US pull out?
What is not often realized is how deep were the reservations by senior officers in both the US and UK armed services about going to war against Iraq.

Some felt that the process of discovering whether Saddam Hussein's Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction had not run its course.

Others felt that Saddam Hussein was pretty well contained already and that his military machine remained broken following his defeat in the first Gulf War.

The UN had done a very good job of disarming Iraq after the first Gulf War that ended in 1991. Nevertheless, true to Tennyson's poem of the Crimean War, "Ours not to reason why, ours but to do and die," the top officers went along with obeying the orders they were given.

The big question now is how to withdraw "with honor" from Iraq. That is important to the soldiers. President Barack Obama has promised to be out by next year. How he sees it today, given the post election infighting in Iraq, is unclear.

When he was a senator he told a Congressional hearing that if the US wanted to totally eliminate Al-Qaeda from Iraq and have a solid Iraqi state they would be there for decades but "if our criteria is a messy, sloppy status quo, but there's not huge outbreaks of violence, there's still corruption, but the country is struggling along but it's not a threat to its neighbors and is not an Al-Qaeda base, that seems to me an achievable goal within a measurable time frame."

The best book on the war in Iraq is "The Gamble" by The Washington Post's military correspondent, Thomas Ricks, who has interviewed almost everybody in senior positions. He concludes, "The quiet consensus emerging among many people who have served in Iraq is that we will likely have American soldiers engaged in combat until at least 2015."

In his penultimate paragraph he quotes former American Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker as saying, "The story of the new Iraq is going to be a very, very long time in unfolding ... What the world ultimately thinks about us and what we think about ourselves I think is going to be determined much more by what happens from now on than what's happened up to now."  Ricks' final sentence is unsettling: "In other words, the events for which Iraq war will be remembered probably have not yet happened."

If that is a sober judgment based on a great deal of research it is also a frightening one. As senior military men and diplomats have observed in Afghanistan, the US and NATO forces have often created more enemies than they've killed. Doesn't this apply to Iraq too? Won't it be even truer the longer the occupation goes on? It surely will be.

Iraqi voters may not demand leaders who insist on an instant US exit tomorrow but one can be sure that if Ricks' words were read to them they would throw up their hands in despair knowing that it is an untenable conviction and one that can only be counterproductive — enabling the politicians to put off the day of biting on the bullet of real compromise and giving Al-Qaeda a new lease of life in the country. (After all it doesn't need a base in Iraq in order to attack America and therefore would probably withdraw its cadres if the Americans were gone.)

When I talked to Zbigniew Brzezinski (a former US national security advisor and a mentor to Obama) I got a very different take on the subject.

He wants to see a political conclusion without too much delay, precisely because an ongoing conflict is inherently dynamic and in the internationally unstable conditions of the Gulf it could embroil us in a collision with Iran.

"We must start talking to Iraqi leaders, all of them, not just those in the Green Zone, about jointly settling a date for American disengagement.

"... (The president should) use the fact of an American-Iraqi dialogue termination date as the point of departure for approaching all of Iraq's neighbors about regional talks about assisting Iraqi security problems upon our departure. Every one of its neighbors, including Syria and Iran, has a stake in Iraq not exploding. And, beyond that, try to engage other Muslim countries — Morocco, Egypt, Algeria etc., — in being willing to assist post-occupied Iraq with some military security. And last, but not least, some major international effort, probably using the UN to that end, to undertake a really large-scale rehabilitation of Iraqis."

To my ears this proposal, in effect, is based on the template of a classic UN peacekeeping formation. Contrary to prejudiced myth it often works — as in the Congo today, in Liberia after the ouster of Charles Taylor who is now being tried by the UN War Crimes Tribunal and, in earlier years, in Lebanon, Cyprus and the Golan Heights.

President Obama should do what Brzezinski has advised. I have a feeling that once Obama forces them to reflect many US senior commanders would agree to a fairly fast withdrawal. After all, many of them never thought the US should be there in the first place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 27, 2010, 04:24:28 PM
Hedley, unless they're your own, please post the authors and sources of these articles. And give your own views. Far more interesting for others than just posting article after article that probably won't be read by most.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 27, 2010, 04:35:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 27, 2010, 04:24:28 PM
Hedley, unless they're your own, please post the authors and sources of these articles. And give your own views. Far more interesting for others than just posting article after article that probably won't be read by most.

+1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 28, 2010, 12:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 27, 2010, 04:24:28 PM
Hedley, unless they're your own, please post the authors and sources of these articles. And give your own views. Far more interesting for others than just posting article after article that probably won't be read by most.

J70 point taken, all are taken from Middle East newspapers.

As for my own views, well where do I start when it comes to America?

Basically it all comes down to their foreign policy, their double standards, their blind support of Israel, the mess they have created in Iraq and Afghanistan(no exit stategy).
The fact that some on here lay the blame at Obama's feet when he inherited most of the crap from warmonger Bush.
Just a few of my own views.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 28, 2010, 12:23:22 PM
This article is from Middle East's Arab News


This is not about Iran
The debate is not about Iran's nuclear obsession but about justice, dignity and freedom. So which way does Obama go?

Great leaders see opportunities in challenges, rising to occasion whenever they have a chance to make history. Petty politicians refuse to see beyond their nose even as real opportunities pass them by.  I always thought — and still believe-US President Barack Obama belongs to the first category. If he is where he is today despite the formidable odds that were stacked against him, I believe it's because of his vision and natural leadership skills.

After years of war and confrontation under his predecessor, he has repeatedly reached out to Muslim world including Iran, offering a fresh start.

This is why I can't make sense of this administration's response to the Iran nuclear deal brokered by Turkey, Brazil and India.  It's not just absurdly hostile but totally dumb, defying all logic and common sense.

But then whoever said the US foreign policy was ever inspired by ephemeral things like logic and reason. If it had been, the US forces wouldn't be occupying Iraq and Afghanistan today even as the country blows up billions of taxpayer's dollars on a daily basis.

The US has been stuck in the two Muslim countries for so long that by now even our old friend Bush and his pals may find it hard to recall why they started these wars in the first place and why a million innocent people had to die. What for?

But if you thought the disasters in Afghanistan and Iraq would have cooled the hot heads on the Capitol Hill and satiated the neocon-Zionist lust for innocent blood, you'd better think again.

Incredibly, as if the total devastation of the two war ravaged countries and loss of over a million Iraqi and Afghan lives was not enough, not to mention the toll of nearly 5,000 US soldiers in Iraq, the US Right is once again pitching for fight with yet another Muslim country, this time with Iran.

More incredibly, the same mad rush to the hell that was seen in the run-up to the Iraq invasion is being re-enacted all over again against Iran.

Israel's powerful friends in the US political-military establishment and on both sides of the political divide are out with the knives for Iran of course with the powerful US media. And when it comes to "hit Iran" rhetoric, even highbrow biggies like the Washington Post and the New York Times are increasingly sounding like Israeli government's mouthpieces, perpetually prattling about the clear and present danger that Iran's nonexistent "nuclear weapons" pose to world peace, just as Iraq's yet to be found WMD not long ago did.

As though acting on the cue, leading lights of the administration Hillary Clinton and Robert Gates have ratcheted up the hysterics warning the Ayatollahs on a daily basis.

Haven't we been here before? And why Obama, if he really means what he says about a new way forward, is allowing the same forces that are responsible for most of America's current woes including its dangerous conflict with the Muslim world to dictate his agenda once again? Has this president drawn no lessons from his predecessor's mistakes and recent history?

If the US and its other Western allies had been really concerned about the Middle East peace, they would have heartily embraced the Iran nuclear deal and thanked Turkey and Brazil for persuading Tehran to cooperate with the world community.

I know Iran's Ahmadinejad cannot help himself whenever there's a chance to prove his histrionic skills. Bringing Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey and President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva of Brazil, not to mention India's S. M. Krishna, together in Tehran for the rare photo opportunity was a masterstroke by Iranians, who like all ancient civilizations set great store by grand ceremonies and small gestures making profound statements.

The diplomatic coup stunned the Americans, taking the wind out of their sails like whoosh! The Iranians timed the move well, unleashing it to check the US push for fresh sanctions against Iran.

Some red-faced US pundits have tried to paint the new uranium swap deal as a panicked Iran's reaction to the imminent punitive measures against Iran. But if the West once again thinks the threat of force or new sanctions has softened Iran, it's grievously mistaken. It certainly didn't work with Iraq; it's not going to work with Iran. Especially not with Iran. You'd think the Yanks would have realized it by now after their long and tumultuous relationship with Iran.

The Iranians are a very proud nation, who take immense pride in their rich past and culture. The talk of use of force and sanctions by nations with a long history of aggression and occupation only rankles them further.

By contemptuously rejecting Iran's reasonable offer to send its uranium abroad (to Turkey) in return for fuel rods from France a year later for use in medical research, the West is only reinforcing the suspicion in much of the Muslim world that it is once again looking for an excuse to annihilate yet another Muslim country.

Else, what excuse does Washington have to spurn the deal brokered by Turkey and Brazil?  Especially when it is little different from what Obama had offered to Iran last year in Geneva during the EU-Iran talks?

In fact, as Ahmed Davutoglu, the architect of Turkey's new foreign policy, revealed to The International Herald Tribune's Roger Cohen, Erdogan had stepped in to defuse the West-Iran showdown only after he was encouraged by Washington to do so.

Besides, the Iran deal has been widely welcomed by the world community including by Gulf Arab states. UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al-Nahyan even sent a congratulatory message to the Iranian leadership.

In opinion polls by some European television networks, 60 percent of respondents supported the arrangement.

These small gestures betray a growing unease over the Iran-West confrontation. The world has grown weary of the kind of cynical, divisive politics big powers have been playing in the Middle East.

The Turkey-Brazil initiative not just shows the way forward to the rest of the world — wonder why Arab states didn't think of it? — but suggests the shape of things to come.

The US may have snubbed Turkey and Brazil for taking the plunge, upsetting the Western game plan but people around the world have sat up and are taking note of the new movers and shakers on world stage.

The times, they are a-changing. After centuries of Western dominance of the world, the balance of power is shifting with the emergence of new players like China, India, Turkey and Brazil. The West would ignore these winds of change at its cost.

Obama has an opportunity to make history. Or allow himself like his predecessors to be waylaid by the forces that have bankrupted his country and put it on a collision course with the world. 

For this is not about Iran or its nuclear obsession. This is about justice, dignity, freedom and equality. Why are there two sets of rules-one for the Palestinians and one for Israelis? Why do some have the right to steal, occupy, and plunder someone else's land as they please and others cannot even protest?

There will be total peace in the Middle East the day a US president treats Palestinians and Israelis equally.  The global arms race will end the day America opts to see no difference between Israel's nukes and Iran's nuclear ambitions. Can we ever see that day, Mr. President? I have a feeling if the Audacity of Hope does not prevail in your time, it will never ever do so.

— Aijaz Zaka Syed is a Dubai-based commentator. Write to him at mailaijaz@aol.com
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on May 28, 2010, 07:03:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 27, 2010, 04:35:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 27, 2010, 04:24:28 PM
Hedley, unless they're your own, please post the authors and sources of these articles. And give your own views. Far more interesting for others than just posting article after article that probably won't be read by most.

+1

or better still stop posting pages after pages of the stuff, if people want to read middle east newspapers they can. do you want me to start posting pages after pages of the ny times? maybe you could get a day job that would be productive...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 28, 2010, 07:16:40 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on May 28, 2010, 07:03:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 27, 2010, 04:35:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 27, 2010, 04:24:28 PM
Hedley, unless they're your own, please post the authors and sources of these articles. And give your own views. Far more interesting for others than just posting article after article that probably won't be read by most.

+1

or better still stop posting pages after pages of the stuff, if people want to read middle east newspapers they can. do you want me to start posting pages after pages of the ny times? maybe you could get a day job that would be productive...

You post whatever you want if going to help back your view/oinion.
You must have a very productive job given the number of posts...hero ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on May 28, 2010, 08:57:01 PM
Its pretty redundant to be posting those articles considering the sources are mostly middle eastern news papers.

It'd be like posting every article from an phoblact to highlight the problems with British presence in Ireland.

Everyone is aware of your opinion Hedley.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on May 28, 2010, 09:14:22 PM
I actually enjoy reading them Lamarr.  Keep it up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on May 28, 2010, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on May 28, 2010, 08:57:01 PM
Its pretty redundant to be posting those articles considering the sources are mostly middle eastern news papers.

It'd be like posting every article from an phoblact to highlight the problems with British presence in Ireland.

Everyone is aware of your opinion Hedley.

That wouldn't happen on this board.

Would it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 29, 2010, 04:36:16 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on May 28, 2010, 08:57:01 PM
Its pretty redundant to be posting those articles considering the sources are mostly middle eastern news papers.

It'd be like posting every article from an phoblact to highlight the problems with British presence in Ireland.

Everyone is aware of your opinion Hedley.

Thats right Puckoon. What would Middle Eastern Newspapers know about events in the Middle East?

We should all stick to Fox News for the real truth in the Middle East.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on May 29, 2010, 09:32:48 AM
Not at all Dixie, that's not the point. There should be a blanaced viewpoint, which is something that hedley, nor yourself, seem interested in putting forward. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 29, 2010, 09:39:09 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on May 29, 2010, 09:32:48 AM
Not at all Dixie, that's not the point. There should be a blanaced viewpoint, which is something that hedley, nor yourself, seem interested in putting forward.

There are two sides to every story, I'm interested in the truth, and not accepting everything Uncle Sam says is true.

I see the truth here every day.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 29, 2010, 12:04:25 PM
Puckoon, feel free to put forward a balanced view then instead of attacking either myself or Hedley.
That has been the problem on this board regarding the Middle East. Far too often, people are
playing the man, and not the ball.


Puckoon, you will find it hard to put acroos a fair and balanced view on US foreign policy in the
Middle East considering the the role the US is playing out there right now.

As I type this, 750 people, including 11 Irish people are in serious danger from Israel/US weapons
as they attempt to sail into Gaza.

Israhell have stated that they will stop these people at all costs, and that they will use force
if necessary.

This stand off is to take place in the next 12/24 hours.

Why will Israhell attack them? Because they are bringing vital aid to a region that has been destroyed over 62 years by US weapons and support for a racist apartheid regime that is on it's last legs.

Only yesterday, 189 countries voted in favour of forcing Israhell to declare their Nuclear weapons
and sign the NPT.  The US were dragged kicking and screaming to the table to support it.

To compound the bad hair day for Israhell, the EU came out yesterday and stated that Israhell must end the siege immediatley and allow the ships into Gaza. No doubt Uncle Sam will sit back and say nothing as it signs another daily cheque for $7 million to go to the regime to buy weapons to attack these ships and passengers.

If one person is injured by US/Israhell weapons, then feel free to come in with a bit of balance whenever I start posting about it.........

Oh, and if you don't think Israhell  is capapable of attacking them, then you should read about the USS Liberty, the US ship Israhell attacked in 1967 killing many US service men. Of course, Uncle Sam played a major role in that cover up........

However, if we were to believe the western media, it is Iran that is a threat, while all the time
it is Israhell/US that is the biggest threat to peace in the middle east.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 29, 2010, 01:12:44 PM
  U.S. President Bomber O' Bomber opposes PEACE in the Middle East............................

"We strongly oppose efforts to single out Israel, and will oppose actions that jeopardize Israel's national security," Obama said, adding that "the greatest threat to proliferation in the Middle East, and to the NPT, is Iran's failure to live up to its NPT obligations."

The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty review conference adopted Friday a declaration upholding principles of disarmament and calling for an international conference in 2012 with the aim to establish a nuclear-weapon-free Middle East.

The 189 NPT parties also decided to address North Korea in the final declaration, calling on that country to return to negotiations to settle the dispute over its nuclear activities.
The 28-page declaration was adopted by consensus, closing a month of debate that began on May 3. It contains a 22-point action plan.

U.S. National Security Adviser General James L. Jones also deplored the decision to single out Israel, calling the move "gratuitous".

"The failure of the resolution to mention Iran, a nation in longstanding violation of the NPT and UN Security Council Resolutions which poses the greatest threat of nuclear proliferation in the region and to the integrity of the NPT, is also deplorable," Jones said.

Under the NPT's action plan, the five recognized nuclear-weapon states - the United States, Russia, Britain, France and China - commit to speed up arms reductions, take other steps to diminish the importance of atomic weapons, and report back on progress by 2014.

The NPT is intended to stop the spread of atomic weapons, though it allowed the United States, Britain, France, China and Russia to keep their arsenals while calling on them to negotiate on disarmament.



UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon praised the adoption of the declaration and its plan of action.

"A strong spirit of compromise and cooperation has delivered a significant agreement to build a safer and more secure world," Ban said in a statement.

The action plan "lays the solid foundation to further strengthen the treaty and address the challenges ahead," Ban said. He welcomed the nuclear-weapon-states to commit themselves to actions to eliminate nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 29, 2010, 01:43:26 PM
Now there's a surprise ::)

Dixie, don't be expecting any reasoned debate on here......Hamas - Houmous.....doubt they know the difference ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on May 29, 2010, 03:29:45 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on May 28, 2010, 09:14:22 PM
I actually enjoy reading them Lamarr.  Keep it up.

+1

Post whatever you want.  If someone else wants to post something refutting something posted then go ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 29, 2010, 05:26:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 29, 2010, 12:04:25 PM
Puckoon, feel free to put forward a balanced view then instead of attacking either myself or Hedley.
That has been the problem on this board regarding the Middle East. Far too often, people are
playing the man, and not the ball.


Puckoon, you will find it hard to put acroos a fair and balanced view on US foreign policy in the
Middle East considering the the role the US is playing out there right now.

As I type this, 750 people, including 11 Irish people are in serious danger from Israel/US weapons
as they attempt to sail into Gaza.

Israhell have stated that they will stop these people at all costs, and that they will use force
if necessary.

This stand off is to take place in the next 12/24 hours.

Why will Israhell attack them? Because they are bringing vital aid to a region that has been destroyed over 62 years by US weapons and support for a racist apartheid regime that is on it's last legs.

Only yesterday, 189 countries voted in favour of forcing Israhell to declare their Nuclear weapons
and sign the NPT.  The US were dragged kicking and screaming to the table to support it.

To compound the bad hair day for Israhell, the EU came out yesterday and stated that Israhell must end the siege immediatley and allow the ships into Gaza. No doubt Uncle Sam will sit back and say nothing as it signs another daily cheque for $7 million to go to the regime to buy weapons to attack these ships and passengers.

If one person is injured by US/Israhell weapons, then feel free to come in with a bit of balance whenever I start posting about it.........

Oh, and if you don't think Israhell  is capapable of attacking them, then you should read about the USS Liberty, the US ship Israhell attacked in 1967 killing many US service men. Of course, Uncle Sam played a major role in that cover up........

However, if we were to believe the western media, it is Iran that is a threat, while all the time
it is Israhell/US that is the biggest threat to peace in the middle east.

Dixie, your hatred of Israel is there for all to see, you Calling the Country Israhell is childish and stupid.

The liberty was covered up, the US has a history of dealing with israel with kids gloves, we get that, what i don't get is why you cant seem to see any good in America whatsoever, only for them we would be speaking german.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 29, 2010, 05:35:09 PM
"you cant seem to see any good in America whatsoever, only for them we would be speaking german."

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 29, 2010, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 29, 2010, 03:29:45 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on May 28, 2010, 09:14:22 PM
I actually enjoy reading them Lamarr.  Keep it up.

+1

Post whatever you want.  If someone else wants to post something refutting something posted then go ahead.
Sure, post whatever ye want but here's an idea...why dont the three or four of ye at most start
a thread of your own and knock yourselves out posting dung that few others here want to read and leave
my quailty thread to me in berating Obama for the joke that he is and reminding the lads here just how right I was
from the start ;D

The Irony here is also something to behold...berate Fox news for being Biased but yet bury yourselves to the neck
in gathering information to fill this thread full of biased and blinkered hatred...and that's somehow OK ::)

Hatred is not the answer lads...it's not working very well in the middle east and it sure isn't much good here either :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on May 29, 2010, 07:07:02 PM
Tyrones Own, I have to admit that you are right about Bomber Obomber.

He has turned out to be a complete failure, and has bowed to big business and took the soup.

His inaction in the Gulf Oil spill crisis is a testament to his failure as US president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 30, 2010, 02:45:13 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 29, 2010, 07:07:02 PM
Tyrones Own, I have to admit that you are right about Bomber Obomber.

He has turned out to be a complete failure, and has bowed to big business and took the soup.

His inaction in the Gulf Oil spill crisis is a testament to his failure as US president.

He has been awful on the Gulf spill. Even if there is not or was not a whole lot the feds could be doing in terms of getting the thing stopped, perception means a lot and he is far too aloof for a disaster of this scale, especially one that so represents the utter ludicrousness of the Republican viewpoint when it comes to business regulation and environmental issues. He should have been out there screaming about what exactly the feds could do and were doing to help the people of the gulf in terms of funding, personnel and equipment and making it clear that all that could be done was being done. Its all very delegating when you have people like Gates or Clinton handling things, but Salazar hasn't exactly been inspiring amidst all of this. This was a situation, coming so soon after the mining disaster, that was tailor-made for Obama to make the right look ridiculous on regulation and environmental issues (and they do look ridiculous to anyone who gives a f**k and has a clue), but he's fucked it up utterly. Too bad as well, just when the tea party movement is starting to let slip some of their more questionable views.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 30, 2010, 09:09:10 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 29, 2010, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 29, 2010, 03:29:45 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on May 28, 2010, 09:14:22 PM
I actually enjoy reading them Lamarr.  Keep it up.

+1

Post whatever you want.  If someone else wants to post something refutting something posted then go ahead.
Sure, post whatever ye want but here's an idea...why dont the three or four of ye at most start
a thread of your own and knock yourselves out posting dung that few others here want to read and leave
my quailty thread to me in berating Obama for the joke that he is and reminding the lads here just how right I was
from the start ;D

The Irony here is also something to behold...berate Fox news for being Biased but yet bury yourselves to the neck
in gathering information to fill this thread full of biased and blinkered hatred...and that's somehow OK ::)

Hatred is not the answer lads...it's not working very well in the middle east and it sure isn't much good here either :-\

TO you are full of it, anyone who posts  anything opposing your view is posting dung.....that's rational :D
The information I have posted gives a view from this side of the world, and rather than try a pathetic attempt at dismissing it as "biased an blinkered hated".....post something that actually challenges the content of the post.
For the record I don't hate America.....just it's foreign policy in the ME and its double standards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 30, 2010, 09:21:44 AM
Prime example of its double standards......

Editorial: Nuke-free Mideast
Russia and China should now demand US pressure Israel into signing the NPT

The call by the United Nations for a Mideast free of nuclear weapons offers yet again a new opportunity to bring Israel into the nonproliferation treaty process while also stopping Iran or any other regional power from acquiring a nuclear arsenal.

The Israelis of course have denounced the decision by some 200 member signatories  of the Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty (NPT), saying it is discriminatory because it singles them out. Such an absurd protest ignores the reality that at present Israel is the only Mideast state possessing this fearsome weapons.  The Netanyahu government instead yesterday trotted out its standard complaint that Iran was the real danger and the UN should concentrate on ensuring that its nuclear weapons program is halted.

That indeed is what the UN is seeking to do. At Washington's prompting, it is ratcheting up the demand for further sanctions to be imposed upon Tehran. Given that the existing sanctions are already hurting Iran — oil production is down by around 400,000 barrels a day due to the lack of replacement of oil field equipment and because local refining capacity has become so decrepit the country is having to import refined petroleum products — an increased tightening seems bound to add to the problems of the administration of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

The Obama White House has worked hard to bring both the Russians and the Chinese into agreement for further pressure on Iran.  Now is the moment for Moscow and Beijing to use the leverage they have thus acquired to demand Washington pressure Israel in its turn into signing and complying with the terms of the NPT. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Obama has given some substance to his declared wish to halt and then reduce the presence of atomic weaponry. He has cut the new bilateral warhead reduction deal with the Russians and for the first time, set out the circumstances in which Washington might resort to a nuclear strike.  It is therefore not surprising he immediately welcomed the UN call yesterday which envisages a 2012 conference of all Middle East states to establish a nuclear-free zone here.

That he also went on to regret the UN had singled out Israel need perhaps not be taken too seriously. He knows Israel's nuclear warheads are a key factor which must have prompted Iran's actions in recent years. Between now and the 2012 conference, he has to convince the Israelis to disarm.  Success could produce a very different Israel that would commit to talking, not least on Palestine, rather than endless confrontation and heartless oppression in the occupied territories.

For many reasons it is a big risk. Yet Israelis have to understand that possessing nuclear weapons actually undermines their security because if it has not done so already, at some point it will prompt one or more countries in the region to match its arsenal, if only for deterrent purposes. Ultimately, if Israel ignores the calls to cooperate, then it too should face international sanctions that it has backed so enthusiastically against the Iranians.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 30, 2010, 10:13:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 30, 2010, 02:45:13 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 29, 2010, 07:07:02 PM
Tyrones Own, I have to admit that you are right about Bomber Obomber.

He has turned out to be a complete failure, and has bowed to big business and took the soup.

His inaction in the Gulf Oil spill crisis is a testament to his failure as US president.

He has been awful on the Gulf spill. Even if there is not or was not a whole lot the feds could be doing in terms of getting the thing stopped, perception means a lot and he is far too aloof for a disaster of this scale, especially one that so represents the utter ludicrousness of the Republican viewpoint when it comes to business regulation and environmental issues. He should have been out there screaming about what exactly the feds could do and were doing to help the people of the gulf in terms of funding, personnel and equipment and making it clear that all that could be done was being done. Its all very delegating when you have people like Gates or Clinton handling things, but Salazar hasn't exactly been inspiring amidst all of this. This was a situation, coming so soon after the mining disaster, that was tailor-made for Obama to make the right look ridiculous on regulation and environmental issues (and they do look ridiculous to anyone who gives a f**k and has a clue), but he's fucked it up utterly. Too bad as well, just when the tea party movement is starting to let slip some of their more questionable views.

If only it stopped there J....
QuoteAll opinions from the moment you are born are biased.  If anyone here got swapped at birth with e.g. Ian Paisley Jr they most likely would have different opinions.
Great then and thank you for clearing this up for me.... can we then expect a dramatic drop in the Fox news angle being thrown
in our faces for any kind of logical opposition of the rhetoric and bigotry that goes on here ::)
QuoteFor the record I don't hate America.....just it's foreign policy in the ME and its double standards.
Fair enough then and I don't condone Israels actions in Gaza either but do us a favour then and start a new thread
as my thread view count can only suffer with what you're positing here :P




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on May 30, 2010, 02:43:01 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 29, 2010, 03:29:45 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on May 28, 2010, 09:14:22 PM
I actually enjoy reading them Lamarr.  Keep it up.

+1

Post whatever you want.  If someone else wants to post something refutting something posted then go ahead.

the point is this is a discussion board with discussion being the operative word. a few posters use the board to plaster it with article after article without any attempt to have a discussion - its just propaganda. now if everyone starts to abuse the board like that what do we have? do these posters have any view on the fact that over 1 billion chinesse speak with one voice, imagine no public dissent allowed in a country that size? in iran gays are on the run? nothing but US bashing from our boys here tho.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 30, 2010, 06:06:43 PM
the point is this is a discussion board with discussion being the operative word. a few posters use the board to plaster it with article after article without any attempt to have a discussion - its just propaganda. now if everyone starts to abuse the board like that what do we have? do these posters have any view on the fact that over 1 billion chinesse speak with one voice, imagine no public dissent allowed in a country that size?

Start a thread on it then and see if anyone has any views ::)


in iran gays are on the run? ::) ::) ::)

nothing but US bashing from our boys here tho.....

how did you know I was from Kerry? :D

I love the way any different view is deemed US bashing :D
God bless America.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on May 30, 2010, 08:53:25 PM
QuoteStart a thread on it then and see if anyone has any views
Now we know you're joking...but it sounds good I'll give you that :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 31, 2010, 08:22:40 AM
By ISRAEL SHAMIR - Arab news.

Published: May 30, 2010 23:38 Updated: May 30, 2010 23:38

The Turks did it! The world as we know it has changed with the newfound independence of Turkey. Within one month, this erstwhile American semi-colony under the charismatic leadership of Recep Erdogan has made two strong moves that have brought it to the forefront of policy-making:

Together with Brazil, Turkey has arranged and signed the Tehran Declaration of a nuclear fuel swap deal with beleaguered Iran. This declaration derails the Israeli plans of sanctioning Iran to death prior to bombing it. The sanctions plan was already on its way to the Security Council; allegedly Russia and China had been pressured to agree. At the last moment, like a deus ex machina - like divine intervention in the medieval theatre - these two new great powers of Turkey and Brazil entered the stage and snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. All the plotting of Israeli lobbyists in the US and Europe was wiped out in an instant.

Israel received the news of the Turkey-Brazil-Iran agreement as a heavy blow. "We were defeated by the crafty Turks and Iranians," read the headlines of Israeli newspapers. Not so fast. The US State Department had tried to minimize the damage, effectively asking: "Who cares what these lowlifes agree about? If we have decided to bomb somebody, bomb we shall. We shall never allow facts to confuse us." Thomas Friedman in the NYT was disappointed why "a Holocaust-denying thug" is allowed to live. However, world policy-making has changed, and decisions are not made exclusively in Washington, London or Moscow any more. Mid-size countries - regional powers - are back in vogue, and it is much better for all of us.

Russia's position remains somewhat doubtful. There are persistent rumors that Russia had agreed to support the sanctions despite the Tehran swap deal declaration, and these rumors had caused Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to issue a strong warning. "We do not know whether Russia is a friend or a foe," he said. 'Surely a friend', replied the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, adding that Russia is well pleased with the Declaration and wishes it to succeed. Nothing is final in our world, but meanwhile it seems that Turkey and Brazil, Erdogan and Lula, succeeded in killing the Israeli-American aggression plan.

After derailing the sanctions against Iran, the indomitable Turk sent his vessels to relieve the siege of Gaza. A whole flotilla of small and medium boats is on its way to Gaza now, and among them, a large boat from Turkey, accompanied by a boat bought and equipped by another great friend of Palestine, Mahathir Mohammad of Malaysia.

Free Gaza did sail boats to Gaza over the past two years with differing results; they had some important persons aboard, notably our friend, the wonderful Cynthia McKinney, but this is the first time that the steering of this freedom regatta has passed from the hands of nice European volunteers to the locals, to the peoples of the region. This is a vast change, and a change that means a lot. While the Palestinian cause was only the cause celebré of Europeans with conscience, it was containable. Now, when it has become the concern of the local region, the countdown for the freak Zionist mini-Empire has begun.

And speaking of ships, there are clear signs that the biggest ship of all, the United States of America, is turning as well. Big ships cannot stop on a dime, advises the Nautical Almanac. They may require as much as 5 miles to stop, with gears in full reverse. Big ships may need 5-10 miles to turn. Now, what is true for supertankers and aircraft carriers is equally true for America.

By the time of Obama's inauguration, the lobby had an impressive influence over America, influence that some experts would define as total control. The lobby was closely connected with the Israeli right-wing establishment. Its roots went deeply into the coffers of Wall Street. Its fingers orchestrated the US media. Europe was in constant fear of the Jews.

Within one year, the lobby has lost much of its position:

• Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu was publicly humiliated and sent back home running from the White House's back door.

• President Obama uttered an unheard-of call for Israel to join the NPT (nuclear nonproliferation treaty);

The US "accepted Arab demands to pressure Israel over its atomic program."

• A secret historical document revealing Israel's attempt to sell nukes to the South African Apartheid regime was published by the Guardian.

• Threats have been sounding that the US will stop blocking anti-Israeli resolutions in the Security Council.

• Jews are extremely unhappy with Obama, for Obama, in his inaugural address, mentioned Muslims ahead of Jews, "We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus - and nonbelievers." (Read this craziest ever hilarious list of complaints!)

It appears that President Obama is a cool customer, who knows when to go forward and when it is good to wait. He probably has learned how to catch the big fish. Meanwhile he is undoing the financial basis of the lobby.

• The Madoff affair was a painful attack of the lobby's purse. That criminal managed the funds of many Jewish organizations. For mysterious reasons he admitted his crime, and the dominoes began to fall. An old and venerable American Jewish Congress went down, as well as many smaller bodies and individuals.

• For obscure reasons, Lehman Brothers was allowed to fall, starting the financial crisis. Lehman Brothers was a prominent Jewish institution, actually a reincarnation of the famous Kuhn, Loeb bank. It went down. Such a collapse could not take place without the Obama administration's blessing.

• Now there is a lasting and sustained attack on Goldman-Sachs, one of the biggest and power-connected financial groups. Goldman-Sachs was described by the Israeli newspaper Haaretz as an institution whose list of partners reads like a list of East Side Synagogue donors, all Jewish. Now there are daily reports of misdeeds and crimes committed by GS in the US and elsewhere. GS can be tried, found guilty, dismantled and its executives sued. If it goes down, and this is possible, the lobby will find itself in a harsh and inhospitable world. Obama is closely connected to GS, the body that infiltrated all power structures, but apparently he is not going out of his way to save them.

In Israel, there is a feeling that the Dubai debacle was played up by Obama. Israeli security services took a proper lashing in Dubai. They had planned a small and neat trick: the assassination of a Hamas official. But this crime provided Dubai with an opportunity to out many Israeli spies, who apparently were using the Gulf merchant city as their forward HQ in preparing an action against Iran. From Dubai, it is possible to enter Iran even without passport control. Dozens of Israeli spies weren't there just to kill a Hamas man; they were after bigger prey.

Now, not only have they been outed, but the modus operandi of Israeli services who cloned European and American passports wholesale was made public as well. After the UK, Australia expelled an Israeli 'diplomat' representative of the Mossad. In France, where the Zionists were at peak strength, now there are big changes. President Sarkozy (despite his Jewish roots) has expressed his lack of patience with Israel. One of the best known political writers of France, Regis Debray has published a book attacking not just Israel, but even the French Jewish community and its synagogues for their support of Israel. In the UK, a politician that has constantly criticized Israel has become the deputy prime minister.

In the old argument of Dog and Tail, the Dog decided to downgrade the Tail, while the  pathetic attempts of the Tail to order the Dog around had failed miserably, and not for lack of trying. Apparently, somewhere within the US establishment it was decided that the American imperial interests are not being served by Israel, and moreover, that the Jewish establishment has become too overbearing and bitchy for its own good. It was decided that the Jewish shrew must be tamed, and so she shall.

I doubt the Israeli wet dream of attacking Iran will materialize now. The chances are 80 to 20 against such a move. However we will have a storm warning: if and when Tzipi Livni joins the government, the chances will go up to 50:50. Israel has never entered a war without the substantial support of the left, and Ehud Barak's presence is not sufficient.

Taming is not breaking. A cautious President Obama did send signals that he is not looking for an all-out war with the organized Jewry. He met with Elie Wiesel and comforted him. He invited more Jewish leaders to the White House - and at the same time he allowed Israel to take a substantial beating. Obama is devious, observers in Israel feel; he is playing a tricky game of embracing with one arm and pushing away with another arm. It appears that there is a forthcoming weather change: at least the older generation of Jewish leaders - conservative, belligerent, aggressive, suspicious - will give way to a new generation, that of Dan Axelrod, Rahm Emmanuel, J-street and the like. Whether it will be a change of style or of substance, it is too early to say - but style is substance, too.

Sure, this will not be enough for many of our friends. People began to pour out their disappointment with Obama within 24 hours of his inauguration. "Wot! A whole day has passed and the American troops are not out of Iraq yet, Israel still gets American support and the bankers are being bailed out?"  However, this was to be expected. The US was fully geared to go in a certain direction; even if Obama would like to change course, it would take a longish time.

An interesting sign of this change can be observed in the Hollywood movie Prince of Persia. It is a fable of the Empire's assault on an innocent state (the US attack of Iraq?). The assault was caused by a bald Jewish-looking neocon of a king's brother who lied and supplied false information of WMD because he wanted to become the King. The bad neocon used evil assassins (surely Israelis?). Eventually the main character, the prince, born in the gutter and elevated by the king for his merit (Obama?) stops the war, makes peace with the enemy, even marries the princess.

It was noticed that the US film industry often produces films presaging changes in the policy. Bombing of Serbia, 9/11 and Afghan war were shown in Hollywood movies before they occurred in real life. Judging by the Prince of Persia, the childish Americans are being prepared to a big change.

— Israel Shamir is an internationally acclaimed columnist and writer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on June 02, 2010, 05:54:00 PM
QuoteI love the way any different view is deemed US bashing :D
God bless America.
And I love the way any different view is deemed US Fox News propaganda :D
...Oh yes and God Bless America ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on June 03, 2010, 02:44:43 AM
Watching fox last night and they were interviewing an Israeli Minister. (no sign of anyone for the other side, fair and balanced..) After he had finished trying to discredit the aid flotilla and Turkey in general and pretty much saying they are all al-qaeda terrorists. The fox news guy, not sure of his name but fills in on Fox and friends sometimes came out with this classic (paraphased) When have al-qaeda cared about the palestinians before.

In nearly ever address given by Osama he has referenced the treatment of the Palestinians. Right Wing Media seem to have this logic - terrorists* = bad = have to be earsed = bombing countires that have terrorists in the hope they kill them all = problem solved. No investigation into why they become terrorists, why the general public are sympathetic to their cause, why killing civilians turns people to terrorist organisation. Just look at some guerilla type terrorist organisation from the past 30 years and they would learn alot. Even the last attack in Russia was carried out by a widow of someone killed by the Russians.

*i used this term but there are many types of people and groups classed as terrorists, Right-wing don't seem to see any difference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on June 24, 2010, 11:44:00 AM
Petraeus replaces McChrystal

Gen. Stanley McChrystal and Gen. David Petraeus. (AP)

By BARBARA FERGUSON | ARAB NEWS

Published: Jun 23, 2010 23:49 Updated: Jun 24, 2010 04:52

WASHINGTON: US President Barack Obama fired his top Afghanistan commander on Wednesday over inflammatory comments that angered the White House and threatened to undermine the war effort.

Calling it the "right thing for our mission in Afghanistan," Obama relieved Gen. Stanley McChrystal of his command after a 30-minute meeting at the White House and named Gen. David Petraeus, head of the US Central Command, to replace him.

Gen. McChrystal had been summoned by Obama to explain remarks he and his aides made in a magazine article that disparaged the US president and other senior civilian leaders.

"The conduct represented in the recently published article does not meet the standard that should be set by a commanding general," Obama said in the White House Rose Garden.

"It undermines the civilian control of the military that is at the core of our democratic system. And it erodes the trust that's necessary for our team to work together to achieve our objectives in Afghanistan," he said.

The sacking of Gen. McChrystal represents a rare dismissal of a wartime military commander by a civilian leader.

The general had given a long, close and after-hours access to a journalist from Rolling Stone and also apparently made no complaints when the magazine sent him a pre-publication copy. "McChrystal blew it. You don't say those things in front of a reporter. And a good commander also doesn't say those things in front of his subordinates," a former Marine officer told Arab News.

Gen. McChrystal's comments include saying he was reportedly "disappointed" at his "10-minute photo op" with President Barack Obama last year.

When preparing to answer a question about the vice president, he said that he found last fall "painful" because he was "trying to sell an unsellable position."

He said he felt "betrayed" by US ambassador to Afghanistan Karl Eikenberry.

Gen. McChrystal accused him of "cover(ing) his flank for the history books" in criticizing Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

Aides also called National Security Adviser Gen. Jim Jones a "clown...stuck in 1985," and the US special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke a "wounded animal...hearing rumors he's going to get fired, so that makes him dangerous."

On Vice President Joe Biden, he commented: "Biden? Did you say 'bite me'?"

The general immediately apologized for comments where his aides portrayed Obama as a disengaged dilettante and blasted his Afghanistan team as incompetent.

He also laughs about not wanting to open an e-mail from Holbrooke, and exhibits a reluctance to have a posh dinner in France. Gen. McChrystal's comments have laid bare a nasty internal battle among members of Obama's joint military-civilian Afghanistan team that is splintered by personality conflicts and divided over how to end the longest war in American history.

Military officials here told Arab News that Gen. McChrystal's remarks were mostly ill-judged wisecracks. "Some aides need to wash their mouths out. That really is about it," said one retired officer who preferred anonymity.

In Washington, reaction to the Rolling Stone story was immediate. Gen. McChrystal is said to have received unhappy phone calls from the White House, the Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and was summoned to DC to explain his comments in person to the president.

A McChrystal press aide has reportedly been fired over the incident, and Gen. McChrystal is understood to have tried calling nearly every figure mentioned in the article to apologize personally.

"Commanders who indulge in sloppy, tough guy, cowboy lingo — 'smackdown, scumbags,' etc. tend to run sloppy, tough guy, cowboy operations. Units, and especially staffs, tend to adopt the language and demeanor of their commander," one Marine told Arab News.

"Afghanistan is a mess, and it's getting worse. To make matters worse, the president's been dealing with internal squabbling on this for some time," said Steve Clemons, a senior fellow at the Washington-based New America Foundation who has written extensively on Afghanistan.

"If there's a bright side to all this, it's that the president has an opportunity to reattach himself to a new policy, fire this guy and start with something new," Clemons told reporters. "It's a tremendous opportunity to reset. But he can't do anything until he fires McChrystal."

NATO will maintain its approach to Afghanistan after Gen. McChrystal's sack, NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said. "While he will no longer be the commander, the approach he helped put in place is the right one," Rasmussen said of Gen. McChrystal in a statement. "The strategy continues to have NATO's support and our forces will continue to carry it out."

   — With input from agencies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on June 24, 2010, 12:13:33 PM
The sacking of Gen. McChrystal represents a rare dismissal of a wartime military commander by a civilian leader.

Is the President not the Commander in Chief of the armed forces?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on June 24, 2010, 01:12:04 PM
Click on the following link to read the full Rolling Stones article:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/119236

As for Petraeus, well, it isn't too long ago he said the following recently, and duely retracted it......

"Insufficient progress toward a comprehensive Middle East peace. The enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to our ability to advance our interests in the AOR. Israeli-Palestinian tensions often flare into violence and large-scale armed confrontations. The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world"

As the Who song goes:  "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 24, 2010, 01:33:09 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 24, 2010, 01:12:04 PM
Click on the following link to read the full Rolling Stones article:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/119236

As for Petraeus, well, it isn't too long ago he said the following recently, and duely retracted it......

"Insufficient progress toward a comprehensive Middle East peace. The enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to our ability to advance our interests in the AOR. Israeli-Palestinian tensions often flare into violence and large-scale armed confrontations. The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world"

As the Who song goes:  "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

Welcome back Dixie.

Just to clarify in my own head though, are you criticising Patraeus' comments quoted above or his retraction of them? I'm not a fan of Israel's government, nor their Neo-Con supporters in the States, but I've read a bit about Patraeus and he might be the man to make a difference.

His rise through the ranks came on the back of his ability to deal with the locals in Iraq and thus avoid or minimise conflict, which contrasted sharply with the other commanders in Iraq.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on June 24, 2010, 01:54:41 PM
Muppet, Petraeus spoke the truth in his statement, and within a week or so, he had to change it.
I felt he spoke the truth, and had to bow to pressure to ammend his speech.

The full article in the Rolling Stones is very good reading, and it gives a very real insight into the current situation on the ground in Afghanistan. It is as good an article as I've read in a long time.

However, wether it is McChrystal, Petraeus, yourself, or myself in charge, it makes no difference.
The fact is, that big business, and a zionist agenda is driving the war in the middle east, and securing their natual resourses along with the land is the main objective.

So, the wheels will keep on turning, no matter who is steering them.

Within 90 days, I predict an attack on Iran. The attack on the Mavi Marmara was an indirect attack on Iran, and already there are over 20 war ships stationed in the Red Sea prepared for an attack. Not to mention the nuclear armed Israeli sub already there......

p.s. it's good to be back....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on June 24, 2010, 04:40:59 PM
U.S. Makes Huge Discovery in Afghanistan, But It's Not Osama bin Laden
Posted Jun 14, 2010 01:05pm EDT by Aaron Task
Related: GLD, DBC, FCX, HAL, JJC, ^DJI, ^GSPC
The United States has discovered nearly $1 trillion in untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan, The NY Times reports. Experts say the large deposits of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and industrial metals like lithium could transform Afghanistan's economy from one based on poppy production and tribalism to one based on mining.
Afghanistan could become the "Saudi Arabia of lithium," an internal Pentagon memo states, according to The Times.

"There is stunning potential here," Gen. David H. Petraeus, commander of the United States Central Command told the paper. "There are a lot of ifs, of course, but I think potentially it is hugely significant."

There are, of course, huge obstacles to overcome, including the lack of sophisticated mining equipment and expertise in Afghanistan, not to mention the ongoing war between the U.S.-led coalition and the Taliban and its allies.

Hope & Cynicism 

As Henry and I discuss in the accompanying clip, the hope is that minerals and mining will spur economic growth in Afghanistan, which can lead to relative peace and stability. As with Russia after the breakup of the Soviet Union, the transformation won't be pretty, especially since the Karzai administration is already rife with corruption. But an economy based on natural resource (other than poppy seeds) sure beats the status quo.

Obviously we should all hope for the best in Afghanistan, for humanitarian and military reasons alike. But the cynic in me can't help ask the following questions, which I'm sure are on the minds of many Americans today:

* $1 trillion is a lot of money: Who reaps the bounty?
* Did the U.S invade Afghanistan to plunder its natural resources, as many believe was the real reason we invaded Iraq?
* How come the U.S. Army can find all these minerals, but not Osama bin Laden.
* Shouldn't our military be putting ALL our resources into defeating the Taliban and finding bin Laden before digging for gold (and iron and copper, etc. etc.)?

Exit strategy.....what exit strategy? :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on June 26, 2010, 04:30:16 PM
Obama Internet kill switch plan approved by US Senate
President could get power to turn off Internet
By Grant Gross
Published: 11:02 GMT, 25 June 10

A US Senate committee has approved a wide-ranging cybersecurity bill that some critics have suggested would give the US president the authority to shut down parts of the Internet during a cyberattack.

Senator Joe Lieberman and other bill sponsors have refuted the charges that the Protecting Cyberspace as a National Asset Act gives the president an Internet "kill switch." Instead, the bill puts limits on the powers the president already has to cause "the closing of any facility or stations for wire communication" in a time of war, as described in the Communications Act of 1934, they said in a breakdown of the bill published on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee website.

The committee unanimously approved an amended version of the legislation by voice vote Thursday, a committee spokeswoman said. The bill next moves to the Senate floor for a vote, which has not yet been scheduled.

Obama security review gets mixed reception
The bill, introduced earlier this month, would establish a White House Office for Cyberspace Policy and a National Center for Cybersecurity and Communications, which would work with private US companies to create cybersecurity requirements for the electrical grid, telecommunications networks and other critical infrastructure.

The bill also would allow the US president to take emergency actions to protect critical parts of the Internet, including ordering owners of critical infrastructure to implement emergency response plans, during a cyber-emergency. The president would need congressional approval to extend a national cyber-emergency beyond 120 days under an amendment to the legislation approved by the committee.

The legislation would give the US Department of Homeland Security authority that it does not now have to respond to cyber-attacks, Lieberman, a Connecticut independent, said earlier this month.

"Our responsibility for cyber defence goes well beyond the public sector because so much of cyberspace is owned and operated by the private sector," he said. "The Department of Homeland Security has actually shown that vulnerabilities in key private sector networks like utilities and communications could bring our economy down for a period of time if attacked or commandeered by a foreign power or cyber terrorists."

Other sponsors of the bill are Senators Susan Collins, a Maine Republican, and Tom Carper, a Delaware Democrat.

One critic said Thursday that the bill will hurt the nation's security, not help it. Security products operate in a competitive market that works best without heavy government intervention, said Wayne Crews, vice president for policy and director of technology studies at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, an anti-regulation think tank.

"Policymakers should reject such proposals to centralize cyber security risk management," Crews said in an e-mail. "The Internet that will evolve if government can resort to a 'kill switch' will be vastly different from, and inferior to, the safer one that will emerge otherwise."

Cybersecurity technologies and services thrive on competition, he added. "The unmistakable tenor of the cybersecurity discussion today is that of government steering while the market rows," he said. "To be sure, law enforcement has a crucial role in punishing intrusions on private networks and infrastructure. But government must coexist with, rather than crowd out, private sector security technologies."

On Wednesday, 24 privacy and civil liberties groups sent a letter raising concerns about the legislation to the sponsors. The bill gives the new National Center for Cybersecurity and Communications "significant authority" over critical infrastructure, but doesn't define what critical infrastructure is covered, the letter said.

Without a definition of critical infrastructure there are concerns that "it includes elements of the Internet that Americans rely on every day to engage in free speech and to access information," said the letter, signed by the Center for Democracy and Technology, the American Civil Liberties Union, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and other groups.

"Changes are needed to ensure that cybersecurity measures do not unnecessarily infringe on free speech, privacy, and other civil liberties interests," the letter added.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on June 27, 2010, 12:26:47 AM
For a light hearted laugh on the current world news, watch the FKN NEWZ............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz5UlcyS82Q
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 04, 2010, 10:31:27 PM
Put Away the Flags
Remembering Howard Zinn on July 4th
by Howard Zinn

On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blessed.
Is not nationalism -- that devotion to a flag, an anthem, a boundary so fierce it engenders mass murder -- one of the great evils of our time, along with racism, along with religious hatred?

These ways of thinking -- cultivated, nurtured, indoctrinated from childhood on -- have been useful to those in power, and deadly for those out of power.

National spirit can be benign in a country that is small and lacking both in military power and a hunger for expansion (Switzerland, Norway, Costa Rica and many more). But in a nation like ours -- huge, possessing thousands of weapons of mass destruction -- what might have been harmless pride becomes an arrogant nationalism dangerous to others and to ourselves.

Our citizenry has been brought up to see our nation as different from others, an exception in the world, uniquely moral, expanding into other lands in order to bring civilization, liberty, democracy.

That self-deception started early.

When the first English settlers moved into Indian land in Massachusetts Bay and were resisted, the violence escalated into war with the Pequot Indians. The killing of Indians was seen as approved by God, the taking of land as commanded by the Bible. The Puritans cited one of the Psalms, which says: "Ask of me, and I shall give thee, the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the Earth for thy possession."

When the English set fire to a Pequot village and massacred men, women and children, the Puritan theologian Cotton Mather said: "It was supposed that no less than 600 Pequot souls were brought down to hell that day."

On the eve of the Mexican War, an American journalist declared it our "Manifest Destiny to overspread the continent allotted by Providence." After the invasion of Mexico began, The New York Herald announced: "We believe it is a part of our destiny to civilize that beautiful country."

It was always supposedly for benign purposes that our country went to war.

We invaded Cuba in 1898 to liberate the Cubans, and went to war in the Philippines shortly after, as President McKinley put it, "to civilize and Christianize" the Filipino people.

As our armies were committing massacres in the Philippines (at least 600,000 Filipinos died in a few years of conflict), Elihu Root, our secretary of war, was saying: "The American soldier is different from all other soldiers of all other countries since the war began. He is the advance guard of liberty and justice, of law and order, and of peace and happiness."

We see in Iraq that our soldiers are not different. They have, perhaps against their better nature, killed thousands of Iraq civilians. And some soldiers have shown themselves capable of brutality, of torture.

Yet they are victims, too, of our government's lies.

How many times have we heard President Bush tell the troops that if they die, if they return without arms or legs, or blinded, it is for "liberty," for "democracy"?

One of the effects of nationalist thinking is a loss of a sense of proportion. The killing of 2,300 people at Pearl Harbor becomes the justification for killing 240,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The killing of 3,000 people on Sept. 11 becomes the justification for killing tens of thousands of people in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And nationalism is given a special virulence when it is said to be blessed by Providence. Today we have a president, invading two countries in four years, who announced on the campaign trail in 2004 that God speaks through him.

We need to refute the idea that our nation is different from, morally superior to, the other imperial powers of world history.

We need to assert our allegiance to the human race, and not to any one nation.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 11, 2010, 04:42:36 PM
"It's Fun To Kill In Afghanistan", says  General James Mattis

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/its-fun-to-kill-in-afghanistan-says-top-us-commander-2023155.html

The US military, still recovering from the shock of the sacking of General Stanley McChrystal, its top commander in Afghanistan – is facing fresh problems over revelations that another top commander declared that it was "fun to shoot people" in Afghanistan.


A video of General James Mattis making his comments was yesterday spreading through the Muslim world at a fraught time in Afghanistan for the US and it's Western allies. General Mattis has been named as successor to General David Petreaus as head of US Central Command. General Petraeus is moving to Afghanistan after McChrystal's sacking over derogatory remarks made about President Obama to Rolling Stone magazine. But General Mattis has yet to be confirmed by the US Senate. The general led the controversial US military assault on the Iraqi city of Fallujah in 2004.

The comments which have come back to haunt him were made at a leadership seminar in 2005. He said: "Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know it's a helluva hoot. I'll be right up front with you. I like brawling. You go into Afghanistan, you get guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil ... guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

Robert Gates, the US Defence Secretary, said that the remarks were made five years ago and General Mattis had learnt his lesson. But one senior American officer serving in Kabul, said: "This is not what we want to see happen after a very difficult time in the campaign. But we don't think the Senate will block his appointment.

"The fact is people in the forces tend not to speak like bishops. We'll have to make clear to Afghans that what he was talking about related to the Taliban, who oppress women, and certainly not Afghans and Muslims as a whole."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on July 12, 2010, 07:15:54 AM
will you stop f**king posting articles....one or two is ok but you have been just ripping the complete arse out of it.

Jesus christ but you are one preachy bastard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on July 12, 2010, 10:05:22 PM
By LINDA HEARD | ARAB NEWS
Obama's Freudian slip is telling
A Palestinian state on Obama's watch will be nothing more than a mirage

By the looks of it, President Barack Obama is set to go down in history as one of the most disappointing American leaders ever. Unlike the bumbling, inarticulate George W. Bush, Obama is an accomplished speaker whose inspirational rhetoric turned him into a heroic international icon. At last! Here was a president with an unshakable moral compass and the courage to do what is right. How wrong we all were! The determined individual who charmed and captivated us with honorable sentiments and firm promises before his inauguration is light years away from the man who sits in the Oval Office today.

If his shattered campaign promises were printed on leaflets they would cloak the White House Rose Garden in litter. On the domestic front, these are too numerous to go into and of little concern to non-Americans. But most of you will recall his undertakings to bring American troops home from Iraq within 16 months, close Guantanamo within one year, end torture "without exception," reach out to America's friends and foes alike and engage in unconditional direct talks with the Iranian government on uranium enrichment. None of these promises have been kept.

Ironically, the one promise he has adhered to is his pledge to vigorously pursue the war in Afghanistan, which most experts — including commanders and diplomats in country — conclude cannot be won militarily. Yet when it comes to this fruitless quest that consumes so many coalition and Afghan lives he is doggedly persistent.

Until now, many in this region are still pinning their hopes on the US president's promise to bring peace to the Middle East and to work toward the creation of a viable Palestinian state. Unlike Bush who is a born-again Christian Zionist, Obama was once seen as inherently sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

For one thing, Obama was highly critical of Israel's apartheid 'fence' telling the Chicago Jewish News that "the creation of a wall dividing the two nations is yet another example of the neglect of this administration (Bush administration) in brokering peace."

For another, when Obama spent two-years at Columbia University during the early 1980s he is thought to have befriended the late Palestinian-American literary theorist and advocate for Palestinian rights Edward Said who was a professor there at the time. In 1998, Obama and his wife Michele were pictured engaged in intense conversation with Said and his wife Mariam at a banquet, where Said was the keynote speaker.

Ali Abunimah, who is an American-Palestinian journalist and cofounder of the website Electronic Intifada, says Obama frequently attended pro-Palestinian events in Chicago. "I remember personally introducing him onstage in 1999 when we had a major community fund-raiser for the community center in Deheisha refugee camp in the occupied West Bank," he told the host of the radio show 'Democracy Now.'

On his website, Abunimah wrote: "The last time I spoke to Obama was in the winter of 2004 at a gathering in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood... As he came in from the cold and took of his coat, I went up to greet him. He responded warmly and volunteered, "Hey, I'm sorry I haven't said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I'm hoping when things calm down I can be more up front. He referred to my activism, including columns I was contributing to The Chicago Tribune critical of Israeli and US policy and said, "Keep up the good work!"

Fast forward to July 2010 and, once again it's hard to believe that Obama is the same person as the man who cheered on Abunimah's efforts six years earlier.

Last week, Obama warmly greeted Israel's hard-line Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on an official White House visit and assured him that the US "will never ask Israel to take any steps that would undermine their security interests." He volunteered to visit Israel at "any time" and inadvertently uttered this truism that goes a long way to explaining why he is seemingly rolling over in favor of the Jewish state:

"We strongly believe that, given its size, its history, the region that it's in and the threats that are leveled against us — against it, that Israel has unique security requirements."

"Leveled against us"? Does this mean that Israel and the US are one and the same? Until now this has been the stuff of conspiracy theorists. This Freudian slip begs the question is Obama or any US leader for that matter, genuinely America's commander in chief? When Obama told Abunimah "when things calm down I can be more up front" on Palestinian issues he probably meant every word at the time. So now that he's the boss — or, at least, nominally the boss — why the hesitation?

It is true that he gave Netanyahu a somewhat frosty reception during the Israeli leader's previous White House visit. This was in response to the latter's intransigence over the expansion of Jewish settlements and Israel's announcement that hundreds of Jewish homes would be built in East Jerusalem that was timed to coincide with a visit to Israel by Vice President Joe Biden. But Obama swiftly caved upon criticism from the pro-Israel lobby and US lawmakers, whose sycophancy toward the Jewish state knows no bounds.

In recent months, Obama has failed to condemn the Mossad for cloning foreign passports used by its agents to assassinate a Hamas agent in Dubai. He has also failed to back America's close ally Turkey that has called for an impartial international investigation into Israel's killing of nine peace activists aboard a Turkish vessel on the high seas. And, most importantly, he has neglected to demand that Israel lift its illegal blockade on Gaza that has turned 1.5 million Palestinians into prisoners. And as for Israel's apartheid wall that Obama once condemned it appears to have faded from his memory.

If the so-called leader of the free world feels unable to follow his conscience on Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians for whatever reason, then Washington cannot be an effective broker. In the event, Obama decides to grow a backbone he may yet prove me wrong. But I strongly suspect that a Palestinian state on his watch will be nothing more than a mirage, just as the great bringer of change has ultimately turned out to be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on July 12, 2010, 10:29:29 PM
This latest article could cause a few pole-reversing swings on the  moral compasses of some of our more right-wing contributors? Surely if the A-rabs are now against Bazza he must be doing something right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 13, 2010, 12:45:18 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on July 12, 2010, 07:15:54 AM
will you stop f**king posting articles....one or two is ok but you have been just ripping the complete arse out of it.

Jesus christ but you are one preachy b**tard.

The last time I looked, this thread was about the many faces of US politics.

I think the article I posted relates to how McChrystal was sacked for comments he made about the president,
and a man who says murdering people is fun gets promotion!

To me, that is a change of face in US politics.

Now, could you imagine the outcry if a British General had said the same thing about shooting Irish people
here during the troubles?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dowling on July 13, 2010, 10:32:38 AM
If anyone wants to take exception to your posts or be ignorant to the information you provide that is of course their perogative Dixie.
I very much appreciate what you do and the time you take to keep information that I might otherwise remain ignorant of coming.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 13, 2010, 11:54:55 AM
Thanks Dowling.
By now we are all aware that the western media doesn't report the real truth, and most of us rely on the internet in order to find out what is really going on in the world.

When is the last time we have seen anything about what daily life is like in Afghanistan or Iraq? We see coffins coming home all the time, yet we never get to see where or how they died. Do we ever get to see the death toll from these 2 wars? Do these lives not count?

Right now, we are facing a war with Iran. It is just like Iraq all over again. The scaremongering has been going on for a while. Nuclear weapons, Israel under threat, US freedom under attack, blah blah blah. The following article is a good look at the current state of affairs regarding Iran, and who is pulling the strings.


The Three Stooges Go To Israel
     

Keith Johnson
Revolt of the Plebs
July 12, 2010

Slowly I turned... step by step... inch by inch...

Does anyone remember the famous black-and-white skit, performed by the Three Stooges, where a psychotic Moe goes berserk and attacks an innocent bystander who unwittingly utters the trigger words "Niagara Falls!"?

These are the guys the American people have entrusted to dictate our foreign policy?
 
Today, we have a new cast of crazies doing the same routine.  However, you can substitute the word "Iran!" in place of the words "Niagara Falls!" and still get the same reaction out of the likes of Joseph Lieberman (I – CT), John McCain (R – AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R – SC), AKA:  The Three Stooges.

For the last few days, this psychotic trio of serial killers were in their beloved homeland of Israel, licking the hand that feeds them and performing renditions of John McCain's favorite tune: "Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" to an audience of likeminded Israeli warlords.

Actually, what was said behind closed doors can only be speculated.  But, considering the track record of these three filthy war criminals, you can be almost certain that the blood sacrifice of your children and the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent Persians were among the highlights discussed by these well-fed senior citizens as they stuffed their sagging jowls with caviar and sipped champagne from their thin, purple lips.

When they emerged, they met the press.  Their comments were purposely measured in tone and contradictory in nature.  While they denied that neither Israel nor the U.S. were planning to strike Iran anytime soon, they strongly suggested that they were prepared to take any action necessary to halt continued progress on its nuclear ambitions.  Their tempered and seemingly innocuous statements were the most telling sign—to date—that an attack on the Islamic state is imminent.

Speaking from Jerusalem on Wednesday, John McCain addressed a gaggle of reporters after meeting with Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Israel's military chief of staff, Gabi Ashkenazi.  When asked if he would support an Israeli military strike on Iran, McCain said, "I don't believe we are at the point of making that kind of decision, nor is the Israeli government, given the state that Iran is in now as far as the development of their nuclear weapons is concerned." McCain said it was impossible for him to say whether he would back such an operation because it "would be dictated by so many different circumstances."

Those "many different circumstances" that McCain refers to are the multitude of options that the Israeli government and their NeoCon puppets are weighing as an excuse to launch a U.S. led strike on Iran.  McCain has been frustrated by sanctions, because as far as he's concerned—sanctions are for pussies! Nothing less than a mushroom cloud rising out of the ashes of a big steaming pile of Bar-B-Qued 4-year-olds will make John McCain happy.  For months he has been rallying support among his constituency of misguided Christian Zionists and armchair war hawks, insisting that nothing short of tough military action should be taken to prevent Iran from destroying the world with their cache of low-grade medical isotopes.  Why now would he tone down his rhetoric unless he was confident that his dream of mass destruction was soon to become a reality?

Joe Lieberman, on the other hand, couldn't help but reiterate his long held position of aggression.  He told reporters that there is a broad consensus in Congress that military force can be used, if necessary, to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. Lieberman cited the recent sanctions passed by Congress as a potential deterrent.  But he went on to say that keeping Iran from becoming a nuclear power would be accomplished, "through diplomatic and economic sanctions if we possibly can, through military actions if we must."

Little Lindsey Graham summed up the trio's true "consensus" best when he declared, "Congress has Israel's back!" It was his little way of letting Israel know that their AIPAC money was being well spent on him, and that there was no need to out him as a homosexual.

What a confederacy of dunces!  These are the guys the American people have entrusted to dictate our foreign policy? They insist that Iran is developing nuclear weapons when their own intelligence sources provide evidence to the contrary.

I wrote in a previous article that as recently as February 11, 2010, Press Secretary Robert Gibbs responded to a claim by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that Iran had produced the first stock of 20 percent enriched uranium.  Gibbs said, "The Iranian nuclear program has undergone a series of problems throughout the year.  We do not believe they have the capability to enrich to the degree to which they now say they are enriching." The enriched uranium that Ahmadinejad was referring to was not for building a nuclear weapon but rather for medical isotopes used to treat cancer patients.  And even if they did have the capability of enriching to 20 percent, it still falls far short of the nearly 98% that is required for building a weapon of mass destruction.  As a signer of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has a legal right to enrich uranium in the manner that they are claiming.

These are the facts.  So why would anyone believe these morons?  Need I remind you of the last time we went to war over the assumption that another Middle Eastern country was in possession of weapons of mass destruction?  The idiots who are making false claims about Iran's weapons program were the same ones making those claims back then.  Both Lieberman and McCain were signators on a letter (dated December 5, 2001) to President George W. Bush, urging him to go after Saddam Hussein for his mythical weapons program.

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."

Of course history has now shown that Lieberman, McCain and other likeminded fools were dead wrong.  What's worse is that they most likely knew they were wrong.  But that didn't stop them from leading us into a war that resulted in the murder of over a million Iraqis and the deaths of over four thousand (conservatively) of our American servicemen.

Now we stand on the precipice of yet another disaster that will make the Iraq War look like a Pop Warner scrimmage.  Are we going to let them do it?  Do we have any choice?

All the chess pieces have been laid out on the table.  Every attempt to bring Iran into western influence has thus far failed.  In 2009, the Brzenzski /Soros team failed to affect regime change by way of a "color revolution" during the Iranian presidential elections.

Now we have sanctions.  But these have yet to apply adequate pressure on the Iranian government or encourage dissenters, within the Regime, to stage a coup.  It is unlikely that sanctions will ever dissuade Iran from relinquishing its sovereignty.

As a matter of fact, while threats from the west loom, prospects for Iran have never been brighter.  Iran's ambassador, Mahamoud-Reza Sajjadi, told the Islamic Republic News Agency "Many countries and even American firms don't like Iran to be under sanctions. That's why they are operating in Iran with different names or through proxy companies from other countries." In a relaxed manner, Sajjadi added that, "The question of sanctions is commonplace to our people as Iran has been under sanctions for the past 31 years."


Sajjadi was confident that his nation would survive sanctions and allow for internal economic development that would help bring them closer to self-sufficiency.  But his most compelling statement was in regards to the true nature of Iranian-Russian relations when he said, "We are two neighbors with common interests and (common) threats. Iran and Russia are against the United States and the Zionist regime of Israel's expansionist objectives."

Don't underestimate Russia.  Russia's signatory to a joint UN resolution on Iranian sanctions is a clever ploy to delay an attack on Iran.  Their strategy is to eliminate justification for western strikes on the Islamic regime while sanctions are in place.

During a recent interview with the Wall Street Journal, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev boldly voiced strong criticism of the additional U.S. and EU sanctions on Iran that go beyond those approved by the UN Security Council.  "We didn't agree to this when we discussed the joint resolution at the U.N.," said Medvedev.

As stated previously, Iran continues to survive with covert Russian aid and western trade alliances working by proxy.  Muslim nations, even those with fundamental religious differences, are now finding themselves obliged to aid Iran in light of the worldwide condemnation of Israel over the botched raid on the Gazan peace flotilla.

Nowhere was this reversal so self-evident than when, On June 11, the London Times initially quotes a U.S. security official as saying that, "The Saudis have given their permission for the Israelis to pass over and they will look the other way. They have already done tests to make sure their own jets aren't scrambled and no one gets shot down. This has all been done with the agreement of the [US] State Department." It further quoted sources in the Saudi government as saying that officials in the country "all know" about the plan, and that they "will let them [the Israelis] through and see nothing."

One day later, Arutz Sheva, an Israeli news service, completely discredited this assertion by proclaiming that, "Saudi Arabia on Saturday denied a report in the London Times that it had given Israel "clear skies" to attack Iran. According to the report, Saudi Arabia was testing its radar and defense equipment in order to partially disable defenses, in order to allow Israeli planes to fly over Saudi airspace in the event of an attack against Iranian nuclear facilities.  Riyadh [capital of Saudi Arabia] denied the report later Saturday, saying it was "slanderous. Saudi Arabia rejects violating its sovereignty or the use of its airspace or territories by anyone to attack any country," an official said in a statement."

So where does that leave us?  Any good gambler would look at his cards and fold.  Not so with the U.S. and Israel.  These two never leave the table because they believe they have an endless supply of money to cover even the most foolish bet.  The U.S. is in it to win it, and you won't find a sympathetic or reasonable shoulder to cry on from either end of the political spectrum; they are both afflicted with the same mental illness.

The Democrats and Republicans both agree that Iran must fall to western rule.  The Brzenzski/Soros led left wanted to affect that through peaceful regime change while the Israeli led NeoCons would like to just blow the Hell out of the place.

The left had their chance and they blew it.  The "color revolution" fell flat and it looks like sanctions won't work either.  So now it's up to the insane NeoCons to do things their way.  That's why McCain is so calm, cool and collected these days.  There's no longer any need for strong words.  The ships are in the gulf, the rockets are ready to launch out of Diego Garcia...all that's missing is the slightest provocation from Iran and it's GO TIME!

I guess all we can hope for is that Iran avoids a confrontation by refraining from doing anything provocative.  That's easier said than done.

Imagine having a psychotic policeman–who's got a grudge against you–parked outside your front door 24/7.  He's looking for any excuse to bust you!  The minute you hit the street—he's on your tail.  The minute you get out of the car—he's on your heel.  The minute you come around a corner—he's lying on the floor—but you don't see him! Your right toe goes into his thigh as you trip over his body and land flat on your face.  The next thing you know you've got your hands behind your back and you're on your way to the county jail for assaulting a police officer.

I know this may sound like something out of a slapstick comedy.  For these "Three Stooges" and the rest of their cohorts, playing with peoples lives might seem like all fun and games.  But as far as you and I and the rest of the world are concerned?  This is no laughing matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 13, 2010, 06:44:33 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on July 13, 2010, 11:54:55 AM

By now we are all aware that the western media doesn't report the real truth

Fixed that for you...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on July 14, 2010, 05:30:00 PM
(http://arabnews.com/incoming/article83693.ece/BINARY/large/0713_cartoon.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 16, 2010, 06:20:12 PM

Chomsky: Is the U.S. Gearing Up for the Destruction of Iran?

Iran sits at the top of US concerns about keeping control of Middle East oil-producing regions, preparing for serious violence if other means do not suffice.


The dire threat of Iran is widely recognized to be the most serious foreign policy crisis facing the Obama administration. General Petraeus informed the Senate Committee on Armed Services in March 2010 that "the Iranian regime is the primary state-level threat to stability" in the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility, the Middle East and Central Asia, the primary region of US global concerns. The term "stability" here has its usual technical meaning: firmly under US control.

In June 2010 Congress strengthened the sanctions against Iran, with even more severe penalties against foreign companies. The Obama administration has been rapidly expanding US offensive capacity in the African island of Diego Garcia, claimed by Britain, which had expelled the population so that the US could build the massive base it uses for attacks in the Central Command area. The Navy reports sending a submarine tender to the island to service nuclear-powered guided-missile submarines with Tomahawk missiles, which can carry nuclear warheads. Each submarine is reported to have the striking power of a typical carrier battle group. According to a US Navy cargo manifest obtained by the Sunday Herald (Glasgow), the substantial military equipment Obama has dispatched includes 387 "bunker busters" used for blasting hardened underground structures. Planning for these "massive ordnance penetrators," the most powerful bombs in the arsenal short of nuclear weapons, was initiated in the Bush administration, but languished. On taking office, Obama immediately accelerated the plans, and they are to be deployed several years ahead of schedule, aiming specifically at Iran.

"They are gearing up totally for the destruction of Iran," according to Dan Plesch, director of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at the University of London. "US bombers and long range missiles are ready today to destroy 10,000 targets in Iran in a few hours," he said. "The firepower of US forces has quadrupled since 2003," accelerating under Obama.

The Arab press reports that an American fleet (with an Israeli vessel) passed through the Suez Canal on the way to the Persian Gulf, where its task is "to implement the sanctions against Iran and supervise the ships going to and from Iran." British and Israeli media report that Saudi Arabia is providing a corridor for Israeli bombing of Iran (denied by Saudi Arabia). On his return from Afghanistan to reassure NATO allies that the US will stay the course after the replacement of General McChrystal by his superior, General Petraeus, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Michael Mullen visited Israel to meet IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi and senior military staff along with intelligence and planning units, continuing the annual strategic dialogue between Israel and the U.S. The meeting focused "on the preparation by both Israel and the U.S. for the possibility of a nuclear capable Iran," according to Haaretz, which reports further that Mullen emphasized that "I always try to see challenges from Israeli perspective." Mullen and Ashkenazi are in regular contact on a secure line.


The increasing threats of military action against Iran are of course in violation of the UN Charter, and in specific violation of Security Council resolution 1887 of September 2009 which reaffirmed the call to all states to resolve disputes related to nuclear issues peacefully, in accordance with the Charter, which bans the use or threat of force.

Some analysts who seem to be taken seriously describe the Iranian threat in apocalyptic terms. Amitai Etzioni warns that "The U.S. will have to confront Iran or give up the Middle East," no less. If Iran's nuclear program proceeds, he asserts, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and other states will "move toward" the new Iranian "superpower." To rephrase in less fevered rhetoric, a regional alliance might take shape independent of the US. In the US army journal Military Review, Etzioni urges a US attack that targets not only Iran's nuclear facilities but also its non-nuclear military assets, including infrastructure -- meaning, the civilian society. "This kind of military action is akin to sanctions - causing 'pain' in order to change behaviour, albeit by much more powerful means."

Such inflammatory pronouncements aside, what exactly is the Iranian threat? An authoritative answer is provided by military and intelligence reports to Congress in April 2010 [Lieutenant General Ronald L. Burgess, Director, Defense Intelligence Agency, Statement before the Committee on Armed Services, US Senate, 14 April 2010; Unclassified Report on Military Power of Iran, April 2010; John J. Kruzel, American Forces Press Service, "Report to Congress Outlines Iranian Threats," April 2010.

The brutal clerical regime is doubtless a threat to its own people, though it does not rank particularly high in that respect in comparison to US allies in the region. But that is not what concerns the military and intelligence assessments. Rather, they are concerned with the threat Iran poses to the region and the world.

The reports make it clear that the Iranian threat is not military. Iran's military spending is "relatively low compared to the rest of the region," and of course minuscule as compared to the US. Iranian military doctrine is strictly "defensive, ... designed to slow an invasion and force a diplomatic solution to hostilities." Iran has only "a limited capability to project force beyond its borders." With regard to the nuclear option, "Iran's nuclear program and its willingness to keep open the possibility of developing nuclear weapons is a central part of its deterrent strategy."

Though the Iranian threat is not military aggression, that does not mean that it might be tolerable to Washington. Iranian deterrent capacity is considered an illegitimate exercise of sovereignty that interferes with US global designs. Specifically, it threatens US control of Middle East energy resources, a high priority of planners since World War II. As one influential figure advised, expressing a common understanding, control of these resources yields "substantial control of the world" (A. A. Berle).


But Iran's threat goes beyond deterrence. It is also seeking to expand its influence. Iran's "current five-year plan seeks to expand bilateral, regional, and international relations, strengthen Iran's ties with friendly states, and enhance its defense and deterrent capabilities. Commensurate with that plan, Iran is seeking to increase its stature by countering U.S. influence and expanding ties with regional actors while advocating Islamic solidarity." In short, Iran is seeking to "destabilize" the region, in the technical sense of the term used by General Petraeus. US invasion and military occupation of Iran's neighbors is "stabilization." Iran's efforts to extend its influence in neighboring countries is "destabilization," hence plainly illegitimate. It should be noted that such revealing usage is routine. Thus the prominent foreign policy analyst James Chace, former editor of the main establishment journal Foreign Affairs, was properly using the term "stability" in its technical sense when he explained that in order to achieve "stability" in Chile it was necessary to "destabilize" the country (by overthrowing the elected Allende government and installing the Pinochet dictatorship).

Beyond these crimes, Iran is also carrying out and supporting terrorism, the reports continue. Its Revolutionary Guards "are behind some of the deadliest terrorist attacks of the past three decades," including attacks on US military facilities in the region and "many of the insurgent attacks on Coalition and Iraqi Security Forces in Iraq since 2003." Furthermore Iran backs Hezbollah and Hamas, the major political forces in Lebanon and in Palestine -- if elections matter. The Hezbollah-based coalition handily won the popular vote in Lebanon's latest (2009) election. Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian election, compelling the US and Israel to institute the harsh and brutal siege of Gaza to punish the miscreants for voting the wrong way in a free election. These have been the only relatively free elections in the Arab world. It is normal for elite opinion to fear the threat of democracy and to act to deter it, but this is a rather striking case, particularly alongside of strong US support for the regional dictatorships, emphasized by Obama with his strong praise for the brutal Egyptian dictator Mubarak on the way to his famous address to the Muslim world in Cairo.

The terrorist acts attributed to Hamas and Hezbollah pale in comparison to US-Israeli terrorism in the same region, but they are worth a look nevertheless.

On May 25 Lebanon celebrated its national holiday Liberation Day, commemorating Israel's withdrawal from southern Lebanon after 22 years, as a result of Hezbollah resistance -- described by Israeli authorities as "Iranian aggression" against Israel in Israeli-occupied Lebanon (Ephraim Sneh). That too is normal imperial usage. Thus President John F. Kennedy condemned the "the assault from the inside" in South Vietnam, "which is manipulated from the North." This criminal assault by the South Vietnamese resistance against Kennedy's bombers, chemical warfare, programs to drive peasants to virtual concentration camps, and other such benign measures was denounced as "internal aggression" by Kennedy's UN Ambassador, liberal hero Adlai Stevenson. North Vietnamese support for their countrymen in the US-occupied South is aggression, intolerable interference with Washington's righteous mission. Kennedy advisors Arthur Schlesinger and Theodore Sorenson, considered doves, also praised Washington's intervention to reverse "aggression" in South Vietnam -- by the indigenous resistance, as they knew, at least if they read US intelligence reports. In 1955 the US Joint Chiefs of Staff had defined several types of "aggression," including "Aggression other than armed, i.e., political warfare, or subversion." For example, an internal uprising against a US-imposed police state, or elections that come out the wrong way. The usage is also common in scholarship and political commentary, and makes sense on the prevailing assumption that We Own the World


Hamas resists Israel's military occupation and its illegal and violent actions in the occupied territories. It is accused of refusing to recognize Israel (political parties do not recognize states). In contrast, the US and Israel not only do not recognize Palestine, but have been acting relentlessly and decisively for decades to ensure that it can never come into existence in any meaningful form. The governing party in Israel, in its 1999 campaign platform, bars the existence of any Palestinian state -- a step towards accommodation beyond the official positions of the US and Israel a decade earlier, which held that there cannot be "an additional Palestinian state" between Israel and Jordan, the latter a "Palestinian state" by US-Israeli fiat whatever its benighted inhabitants and government might believe.

Hamas is charged with rocketing Israeli settlements on the border, criminal acts no doubt, though a fraction of Israel's violence in Gaza, let alone elsewhere. It is important to bear in mind, in this connection, that the US and Israel know exactly how to terminate the terror that they deplore with such passion. Israel officially concedes that there were no Hamas rockets as long as Israel partially observed a truce with Hamas in 2008. Israel rejected Hamas's offer to renew the truce, preferring to launch the murderous and destructive Operation Cast Lead against Gaza in December 2008, with full US backing, an exploit of murderous aggression without the slightest credible pretext on either legal or moral grounds.

The model for democracy in the Muslim world, despite serious flaws, is Turkey, which has relatively free elections, and has also been subject to harsh criticism in the US. The most extreme case was when the government followed the position of 95% of the population and refused to join in the invasion of Iraq, eliciting harsh condemnation from Washington for its failure to comprehend how a democratic government should behave: under our concept of democracy, the voice of the Master determines policy, not the near-unanimous voice of the population.

The Obama administration was once again incensed when Turkey joined with Brazil in arranging a deal with Iran to restrict its enrichment of uranium. Obama had praised the initiative in a letter to Brazil's president Lula da Silva, apparently on the assumption that it would fail and provide a propaganda weapon against Iran. When it succeeded, the US was furious, and quickly undermined it by ramming through a Security Council resolution with new sanctions against Iran that were so meaningless that China cheerfully joined at once -- recognizing that at most the sanctions would impede Western interests in competing with China for Iran's resources. Once again, Washington acted forthrightly to ensure that others would not interfere with US control of the region.

Not surprisingly, Turkey (along with Brazil) voted against the US sanctions motion in the Security Council. The other regional member, Lebanon, abstained. These actions aroused further consternation in Washington. Philip Gordon, the Obama administration's top diplomat on European affairs, warned Turkey that its actions are not understood in the US and that it must "demonstrate its commitment to partnership with the West," AP reported, "a rare admonishment of a crucial NATO ally."


The political class understands as well. Steven A. Cook, a scholar with the Council on Foreign Relations, observed that the critical question now is "How do we keep the Turks in their lane?" -- following orders like good democrats. A New York Times headline captured the general mood: "Iran Deal Seen as Spot on Brazilian Leader's Legacy." In brief, do what we say, or else.

There is no indication that other countries in the region favor US sanctions any more than Turkey does. On Iran's opposite border, for example, Pakistan and Iran, meeting in Turkey, recently signed an agreement for a new pipeline. Even more worrisome for the US is that the pipeline might extend to India. The 2008 US treaty with India supporting its nuclear programs -- and indirectly its nuclear weapons programs -- was intended to stop India from joining the pipeline, according to Moeed Yusuf, a South Asia adviser to the United States Institute of Peace, expressing a common interpretation. India and Pakistan are two of the three nuclear powers that have refused to sign the Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT), the third being Israel. All have developed nuclear weapons with US support, and still do.

No sane person wants Iran to develop nuclear weapons; or anyone. One obvious way to mitigate or eliminate this threat is to establish a nuclear weapons-free zone (NWFZ) in the Middle East. The issue arose (again) at the NPT conference at United Nations headquarters in early May 2010. Egypt, as chair of the 118 nations of the Non-Aligned Movement, proposed that the conference back a plan calling for the start of negotiations in 2011 on a Middle East NWFZ, as had been agreed by the West, including the US, at the 1995 review conference on the NPT.

Washington still formally agrees, but insists that Israel be exempted -- and has given no hint of allowing such provisions to apply to itself. The time is not yet ripe for creating the zone, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton stated at the NPT conference, while Washington insisted that no proposal can be accepted that calls for Israel's nuclear program to be placed under the auspices of the IAEA or that calls on signers of the NPT, specifically Washington, to release information about "Israeli nuclear facilities and activities, including information pertaining to previous nuclear transfers to Israel." Obama's technique of evasion is to adopt Israel's position that any such proposal must be conditional on a comprehensive peace settlement, which the US can delay indefinitely, as it has been doing for 35 years, with rare and temporary exceptions.

At the same time, Yukiya Amano, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, asked foreign ministers of its 151 member states to share views on how to implement a resolution demanding that Israel "accede to" the NPT and throw its nuclear facilities open to IAEA oversight, AP reported.

It is rarely noted that the US and UK have a special responsibility to work to establish a Middle East NWFZ. In attempting to provide a thin legal cover for their invasion of the Iraq in 2003, they appealed to Security Council Resolution 687 (1991), which called on Iraq to terminate its development of weapons of mass destruction. The US and UK claimed that they had not done so. We need not tarry on the excuse, but that Resolution commits its signers to move to establish a NWFZ in the Middle East.


Parenthetically, we may add that US insistence on maintaining nuclear facilities in Diego Garcia undermines the NWFZ established by the African Union, just as Washington continues to block a Pacific NWFZ by excluding its Pacific dependencies.

Obama's rhetorical commitment to non-proliferation has received much praise, even a Nobel peace prize. One practical step in this direction is establishment of NWFZs. Another is to withdraw support for the nuclear programs of the three non-signers of the NPT. As often, rhetoric and actions are hardly aligned, in fact are in direct contradiction in this case, facts that pass with as little attention as most of what has just been briefly reviewed.

Instead of taking practical steps towards reducing the truly dire threat of nuclear weapons proliferation, the US is taking major steps towards reinforcing US control of the vital Middle East oil-producing regions, by violence if other means do not suffice. That is understandable and even reasonable, under prevailing imperial doctrine, however grim the consequences, yet another illustration of "the savage injustice of the Europeans" that Adam Smith deplored in 1776, with the command center since shifted to their imperial settlement across the seas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on July 16, 2010, 07:23:18 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on July 12, 2010, 07:15:54 AM
will you stop f**king posting articles....one or two is ok but you have been just ripping the complete arse out of it.

Jesus christ but you are one preachy b**tard.

i tried that approach a few months back ms, youd need to be unemployed to keep up with all the sh1t he posts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 16, 2010, 08:35:22 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on July 16, 2010, 07:23:18 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on July 12, 2010, 07:15:54 AM
will you stop f**king posting articles....one or two is ok but you have been just ripping the complete arse out of it.

Jesus christ but you are one preachy b**tard.

i tried that approach a few months back ms, youd need to be unemployed to keep up with all the sh1t he posts

So posts on US foriegn policy that kills innocent people is sh1t to you?
I suppose you will support a US/Israel attack on Iran then?
All in the name of "democracy" eh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 16, 2010, 11:15:49 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on July 16, 2010, 07:23:18 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on July 12, 2010, 07:15:54 AM
will you stop f**king posting articles....one or two is ok but you have been just ripping the complete arse out of it.

Jesus christ but you are one preachy b**tard.

i tried that approach a few months back ms, youd need to be unemployed to keep up with all the sh1t he posts
Either that or he's on the Hamas payroll as chief Propagandist :-\
but in fairness to him, he is all after all back on the aid  kick...and thought
no one would notice the recent about face :D  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on July 17, 2010, 11:46:26 AM
US missile defense ill-prepared for Iran attack
By ARIEH O'SULLIVAN | THE MEDIA LINE

Published: Jul 16, 2010 00:39 Updated: Jul 16, 2010 00:39

WASHINGTON: The US missile defense systems protecting American forces in four major Gulf States is inadequate and "vastly outnumbered" to deal with the looming Iranian threat, a key American missile advocate has warned.

"The shortcomings are the numerical disadvantages the US has right now in being able to handle the thousand or so Iranian missiles that are 120 miles away. So we are lacking the numbers of the specific PAC-3 missiles, we are lacking the launchers that are needed and other systems that are needed to be deployed as quickly as possible," said Riki Ellison, chairman of the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance, a US-based organization.

Ellison told The Media Line that some Iranian rockets are "only a few short minutes of missile flight away" from US personnel and other targets in the Gulf countries of Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.

Ellison spoke following a visit to missile installations in Bahrain this week, revealing that only two US air defense battalions are currently spread across the four countries to protect thousands of US personnel, as well as the nearby cities, military sites and civilian populations.

The United States has reportedly been planning to bolster missile protection for its allies in the Gulf, including dispatching sea-based cruisers with sophisticated Aegis defense systems. Washington also reportedly said it was beefing up its eight Patriot missile batteries, although there has been no evidence of this.

While steadily developing its long-range ballistic missile, Iran has been concentrating more readily on short- and medium-range missiles that put the Gulf states well within reach. These are the types of systems that the Patriots and Aegis systems are designed to defend against.

According to Ellison, there are currently four basic types of deployed Iranian ballistic missiles: Shahab, Sajjil, CSS-8 and the M11.

The declared goal of Ellison's organization is to drive "development, deployment and evolution" of missile defense.

He outlined a number of steps the US should take to enhance missile protection, particularly in Bahrain, which hosts the US 5th fleet headquarters, and Qatar, home to a modernized US air operations center that has played a key role in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. These include increasing the number of PAC-3 Patriot launchers from one in each of the eight batteries deployed and doubling their missile inventory, Ellison said.

Another suggestion was the deployment of the new THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) system designed to shoot down incoming rockets in space before they re-enter the atmosphere. The THAAD system just last week passed a successful test at a US range in the Pacific, intercepting a target missile inside the Earth's atmosphere. The test also included coordinated interoperability links with a Patriot missile defense system, according to Defense News.

Ellison also advised that the US integrate all the regional missile defense systems to make a combined shield.

"The size and scope of this [Iranian] threat drives the need for missile defense protection to be top priority," he said. "The US missile defense systems, which are vastly outnumbered by Iranian missiles in the Gulf need to be addressed in order to perform their critical mission."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 17, 2010, 01:39:24 PM
While the US slips further and further into recession, and more and more US citizens join the dole line, Uncle Sam decides that sending more bombs and bullets to kill innocent people in Palestine is more important.
It seems that taking life instead of protecting life is now the norm for the US.

I hope anyone joining joing the dole who voted for Obomber relaises that this is the "Change" they voted for.

Plus, in Hedleys article above, it looks like Uncle Sam is going to find another few billion to fund more weapons of mass destruction in the middle east........

US aid to Israell...... The gift that keeps on giving.....


Saturday July 17, 2010 06:03 by Saed Bannoura - IMEMC & Agencies

U.S.. Assistant Secretary of State, Andrew Shapiro, stated Friday that the Washington intend to grant Israel the amount of 2.775 Billion U.S.. Dollars in what was described as the largest military-security aid to Israel.


He said that the money is considered a special military-security aid to Israel in order to ensure "its security needs are met under the current circumstances".

The Obama administration already asked the Congress to grant this amount to Israel.
His statements came as he addressed the US-Israeli relationships on Friday during a speech at the Brookings Saban Center for Middle East Policy.

He said that he has no doubt that the relation between Israel and the United States is unbreakable and that this relation is too important to be anything less than a top priority.

Shapiro also stated that this aid would also boost the chances of Middle East Peace, and would help Israel in making the correct decision for a comprehensive peace.

The Assistant Secretary of State added that the United States is committed to Israel's security and added that "Israel has the right to defend itself", and that peace cannot be achieved without accepting this fact.

"Israel is a very important friend to the United States, it is the cornerstone for U.S. commitment to security in the region", Shapiro said, "The U.S. support to Israel is not only to show this friendship, it is also a commitment to Israel's security as this security boots the U.S. national security, and helps Israel in making the needed decisions".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 17, 2010, 04:15:21 PM
Does Event Honoring Israeli Spy Suggest Another Israeli Operation?


Less than two weeks prior to the mass murder of September 11, 2001, the Israeli government made a $1 million grant to Israeli super-spy Jonathan Pollard. In retrospect, the facts suggest that grant may well have served as a signal to Israeli operatives inside the U.S.


Jonathan Pollard
On July 13, 2010, in observance of Pollard's 9000th day of incarceration, the Jerusalem municipality dimmed the lights illuminating the Old City. This gesture of Israeli solidarity included a projection onto the darkened walls of a message urging that President Obama release their spy from prison.

Thus the concern among knowledgeable intelligence operatives that this Pollard commemoration may mean that another Israeli operation is underway.

On March 4, 1987, this Israeli-American was sentenced to life imprisonment for conveying to Israel more than 1 million classified U.S. military documents. Tel Aviv passed those secrets on to Moscow.

In practical effect, this Israeli espionage jettisoned not only America's Cold War defense strategy, it also jeopardized the entirety of NATO's defense posture.

From 1948 to 1989, U.S. taxpayers invested $20 trillion in Cold War-related defense (in 2010 dollars). In practical effect, an Israeli spy operation negated those outlays. Following Pollard's arrest in 1986, Israel repeatedly assured U.S. leaders that he was part of a rogue spy operation.

Not until 12 years later did Tel Aviv concede the obvious: Pollard was an Israeli spy the entire time. According to Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger, "[It is] difficult to conceive of a greater harm to national security than that caused by...Pollard's treasonous behavior."

Twelve years later, the Pollard storyline shifted again when in June 2010 Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador to the U.S., revived the phony "rogue" portrayal in yet another attempt to distance Tel Aviv from the fact that Israel continues its espionage operations in the U.S.

Another "hyphenated American," Oren relinquished the U.S. component of his citizenship to serve as Israel's ambassador to Washington. Though he withdrew his Pollard statement, no one could explain why someone with his sophistication would issue a "rogue operation" statement.

Signaling the Network

Tel Aviv's first concerted attempt to gain Pollard's release dates to 1998 when, while negotiating the Wye River Accords, Prime Minister Ehud Barak secured from President Bill Clinton an agreement for Pollard's release. Clinton backpedaled when threatened with a mass resignation by outraged members of the U.S. intelligence community.

The entryway to the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency in Langley, Virginia features an agency crest imbedded in the tiled floor. An adjoining wall commemorates with stars the unnamed dead who lost their lives as U.S. intelligence operatives. Those featured typically achieved the equivalent military rank of colonel.

As a result of Pollard's spying, 110 C.I.A. operatives lost their lives. In addition, a reported 1,600 prime American assets were lost due to this Israeli espionage. Americans have yet to be told the true extent of this loss.

In the history of U.S. national security, Pollard enjoys top billing as inflicting the most damage. In Israel, he is revered. Eligible for release in 2015, he will be welcomed home as a Zionist hero to a nation that granted him citizenship and several national awards.

His iconic status assures that news of Pollard—any news whatsoever—emboldens Israeli-Americans committed to the Zionist geopolitical agenda. Attempts to secure his release assure hyphenated Americans that their "homeland" will stand in solidarity with them at any cost. Israeli offers of large sums of money reinforce that commitment.

Americans remain largely clueless about the espionage role played by Israeli-Americans. Few recall Jonathan Pollard. Fewer still grasp the costs that Pollard's treason imposed in blood and treasure. Nor do Americans understand the overwhelming influence of dual-citizens both in creating and communicating the false intelligence that took the U.S. to war in the Middle East.

"To wage war by way of deception" has long been the operative credo of the Mossad, Israel's intelligence and operations directorate. Mossad operatives routinely target Israeli-Americans as recruits when staging operations in the U.S.

Even now, many Americans believe that Israel is an ally despite more than six decades of facts confirming the contrary. Israeli espionage remains ongoing aided by a cadre of cooperative members of both the House and Senate and their staffs.

To believe otherwise allows gullibility to displace facts confirming the gravity of the threat that this entangled alliance imposes on the U.S. and, by extension, on the international community.

This latest Israeli adoration of traitor Jonathan Pollard is clearly an affront to the U.S. as Israel's sponsor, financier, protector and primary arms supplier. Of immediate concern, this high profile event may be a signal setting in motion another murderous incident meant to persuade Americans that they face an external threat rather than the ongoing threat of an enemy within.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on July 17, 2010, 05:09:03 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on July 14, 2010, 05:30:00 PM
(http://arabnews.com/incoming/article83693.ece/BINARY/large/0713_cartoon.jpg)

whats your point? just another dumb dig? you do know that the black guy was elected president of the USA. maybe your buddies at arabnews.com do irony
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on July 17, 2010, 09:30:57 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on July 17, 2010, 09:04:31 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on July 17, 2010, 05:09:03 PM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on July 14, 2010, 05:30:00 PM
(http://arabnews.com/incoming/article83693.ece/BINARY/large/0713_cartoon.jpg)

whats your point? just another dumb dig? you do know that the black guy was elected president of the USA. maybe your buddies at arabnews.com do irony

What? Did it really take you 3 days to work that out? Thank God for education :D
u and your arsehole frie3nds on here can suck my a~~.....I've been sorting out the USA's mess for too long now to care about arsewipes like you and your f**kbuddies on here.
Stay in your bunker in Tralee :D

nice
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 18, 2010, 04:24:41 AM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on July 17, 2010, 09:09:55 PM
I seriously doubt if magicmushroom or tyrones moan woul know the difference between hostile fire and ceasefire :D

As they say in Kandahar......away and ball your own dung!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Someone got into his parents drink cabinet it would seem :D
But on a more serious note; could the Mods please explain in lay mans terms how this, and it's one of many
Quoteu and your arsehole frie3nds on here can suck my a~~.....I've been sorting out the USA's mess for too long now to care about arsewipes like you and your f**kbuddies on here.
can be repeatedly justified under the rules of the board ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on July 18, 2010, 04:27:54 AM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on July 17, 2010, 09:04:31 PM

What? Did it really take you 3 days to work that out? Thank God for education :D
u and your arsehole frie3nds on here can suck my a~~.....I've been sorting out the USA's mess for too long now to care about arsewipes like you and your f**kbuddies on here.
Stay in your bunker in Tralee :D

What are you smoking?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on July 22, 2010, 08:33:44 AM
By LAWRENCE DAVIDSON
Is US replaying Iraq in Iran?
On July 15, 2010 Time Magazine carried an article entitled, "An Attack on Iran: Back on the Table."

According to the piece, the point man for this growing belligerency is Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. It is to be noted that when the same Gates served the infamous George W. Bush (the year was 2008), he actually helped talk that president out of attacking Iran. At the time we were bogged down in Iraq and so yet another war in the Middle East was, according to Gates, "the last thing we need." Now it is 2010 and we are bogged down in Afghanistan. No matter, Gates appears to have changed his mind. Or perhaps, he has been instructed to do so. "I don't think we're prepared to even talk about a nuclear Iran....We do not accept the idea of Iran having nuclear weapons."

All of this is mighty strange. First of all, there is no supportable evidence that Iran is planning to build nuclear weapons. UN inspections and even US intelligence reports fail to support this conclusion. This being the case, why does Gates speak as if a nuclear Iran is imminent? One possibility is that he and others in Washington are working from assumptions based on what the US would do if it was in Iran's shoes. To understand this better we can ask what Gates and President Barack Obama would do if, magically transformed into Iran's leaders, they were confronted with the following questions and answers?

Who backed Saddam Hussein in his war on Iran? The United States. Who attacked Iraq and then blamed much of the resistance coming from Shiite quarters on Iran? The United States. Who has virtually surrounded Iran with potentially hostile military bases? The United States. Who has very likely abetted violent terror attacks by some of Iran's minority groups? The United States. Who now speaks of Iran in tones remarkably similar to those used for Iraq prior to invasion of that country? The United States. Who speaks almost daily of launching a military attack on Iran? America's No. 1 "ally" Israel. Who characterized Iran as one of the three "rogue" states making up the Axis of Evil? The United States. And finally, and perhaps most relevant to our present situation, which one of those three "rogue" states has not been invaded or threatened with attack by the United States? The one with the nuclear weapons (North Korea). The defense secretary does not have to be a genius to assume that, despite the lack of hard evidence, Iran might very well seek to be nuclear armed. Because that is almost certainly what Washington would do if it was in Tehran's place.

At this point someone ought to stop and ask why the United States cares if Iran has one or two or three nuclear warheads for defensive purposes? In modern times Iran has never invaded or even attacked another country unless it was attacked first. The whole notion that Amadinejad wants to "wipe Israel off the map" is a Zionist propaganda story based on a mistranslated speech. It is on the same level as the neocon tale about Iraqi soldiers throwing Kuwaiti infants out of incubators. Also, given the description above, the US could easily help remove most of the fears that might be driving Iran in a nuclear direction. That is because those fears are mostly a function of American policies. Just a month or so ago Washington actually had an opportunity to lay this whole nuclear controversy to rest when Turkey and Brazil succeeded in negotiating third party enrichment for Iran's nuclear fuel. Obama failed to pursue it. Instead, he has sent Gates out to talk tough. To tell us that the "military option is back on the table." The Time also informs us that US Army Central Command "which is in charge of organizing military operations in the Middle East" has "made real progress in planning targeted air strikes (against Iran)." And, perhaps the scariest part of all this, "Israel has been brought in to the planning process."

There is something not right about this. We are missing a vital piece to this puzzle. I want to say that I usually do not believe in reducing complicated issues to a one simple cause. But I must confess, that when I think about our present situation relative to Iran, my mind is taken back to John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt's The Israeli Lobby, and particularly to the 32 pages they devote to showing what a great role the American Zionists and their neocon allies played in getting George W. Bush, the Congress, and much of the American public so hyped up with lies and distortions that we all ran right off the cliff into a disastrous war. How many Americans remember that? How many news reporters, who like to pretend to be professional journalists, point this out to their readers and listeners? On both accounts it seems the answer is precious few. Our incredibly short historical memory is a serious problem and it means that our history can repeat itself.

The Time article tries to soften its message by asserting that Obama is still "skeptical...about a military strike." It implies that Obama knows that such an action would "unify the Iranian people" and also "unify much of the world including Russia and China...against a recowboyfied US." We might add to this that Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon would likely explode in an anti-US and anti-Israel frenzy. The Gulf oil lanes would turn into a battle ground and Hezbollah would likely proceed to make northern Israel uninhabitable.

Even if this assessment of an aware and skeptical Obama is accurate, surely the president is still playing with fire when he helps sustain the Iran nuclear hype. So we must ask why he risks scaring the American public in a manner reminiscent of the Bush administration? If we follow the Mearsheimer and Walt line, and I think there is something to it, the most likely answer is that he seeks to mollify the American Zionists so as to politically neutralize them through the November elections. After all, given the power of the American Zionist lobby, Middle East foreign policy has been converted to domestic political policy.

If Obama is in fact hyping the Iran nuclear issue for domestic political gain, it is a foolish strategy. The Zionist lobby will work very hard against Obama and the Democrats come November whatever tact he takes on Iran. He is also setting himself up for the accusation of being soft on the Iranians when, hopefully, he does not follow through on Gates' belligerent talk. This may, unfortunately, come back to bite him in the next presidential election. It would be much wiser to tell the truth about both Iran and Israel. Tell the American people that Iran is no real threat to the United States, but Israel and its Zionist operatives always have been and still are a great threat. They have drained us of much national treasure, they have corrupted our Congress and political parties, and they contributed to our unnecessary but horridly bloody invasion of Iraq.

And now they want us to attack Iran. Morton Klein the fanatical leader of the Zionist Organization of America wants you to believe that a nuclear Iran will give atomic weapons to terrorists. To avoid this Washington will be forced into an "unending series of concessions" amounting to "nuclear blackmail" (Philadelphia Inquirer, July 17, 2010). There is not a shred of evidence for this assertion and a lot of evidence that suggests it is absolutely wrong. The Iranians fear and dislike the Sunnis of Al-Qaeda. They have cooperated with the US, even under the Bush administration, in the "war against terrorism." And, they have their own terrorist problems that encourages them to continue to aid us in this regard. But, Klein and his Zionist cohort, are not interested in facts. They are interested in solidifying the fraying American alliance with Israel. Scare tactics serve their purpose, just as they did in the case of Iraq. And Obama seems to be going along with this fraudulent campaign.

It is a dangerous situation. It bears repeating that Americans have short historical memories and are easily manipulated by the media and government spokesmen who supply most of them with "the news." If history does repeat itself, don't blame Iran. More accurately you can blame the American Zionists and their new partners in propaganda, the Obama administration.

— Lawrence Davidson works in the Department of History, West Chester University, West Chester, Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on July 22, 2010, 12:44:04 PM
By ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: Jul 21, 2010 15:42 Updated: Jul 21, 2010 15:47

SEOUL, South Korea: The Obama administration moved Wednesday to push new sanctions against North Korea over its nuclear weapons program, as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and Defense Secretary Robert Gates showed solidarity with South Korea during a visit to the area that separates it from the North.

Clinton announced the new measures — targeting the sale or purchase of arms and related goods used to fund the communist regime's nuclear activities, and the acquisition of luxury items to reward its elite — after she and Gates toured the heavily fortified border in a symbolic trip four months after the sinking of a South Korean warship blamed on the North.

The penalties are intended to further isolate the already hermetic North and persuade its leaders to return to talks aimed at getting it to abandon atomic weapons. The US is also trying to forestall future provocative acts like the torpedoing of the Cheonan, which killed 46 South Korean sailors.

With specifics of the sanctions still being worked out, the more striking demonstration of US resolve came when Clinton and Gates — in a first for America's top two cabinet members — together toured the demilitarized zone in the village of Panmunjom.

Under sporadic downpours and the watchful gaze of curious North Korean guards, they paid tribute to the US, South Korean and international forces that patrol the world's last Cold War-era border. Sixty years after the fighting began, the peninsula remains divided in a state of war because the conflict ended in a truce, not a peace treaty.

At one point, in the Military Armistice Commission building where officials from North Korea and the UN

Command meet for talks, Clinton and Gates stood briefly on North Korean soil while a North Korean solider peered at them through a window.

Gates said the visit was intended "to send a strong signal to the North, to the region and to the world that our commitment to South Korea's security is steadfast." "In fact, our military alliance has never been stronger and should deter any potential aggressor," he said.

In response to the Cheonan sinking, the US and South Korea have announced plans to conduct new military exercises in the coming weeks, sparking threats from North Korea and expressions of concern from its lone major ally, China.

Both Gates and Clinton noted that since the Korean War, the South has become a major economic power while the North has stagnated under international isolation.

"Although it may be a thin line, these two places are worlds apart," Clinton said, referring to the three-mile (five-kilometer) -deep buffer zone that stretches from east to west and lies just 30 miles (50 kilometers) from the South Korean capital. She urged North Korea to turn away from the isolation that has left its people suffering.

"We continue to send a message to the North: There is another way. There is a way that can benefit the people of the North," she said. "But until they change direction, the United States stands firmly on behalf of the people and government of the Republic of Korea, where we provide a stalwart defense along with our allies and partners." Clinton repeated that message later after security talks with Gates and their South Korean counterparts.

Presenting the outlines of the fresh sanctions, Clinton said the North could win "the security and international respect it seeks" by stopping its provocative behavior, halting threats toward its neighbors and returning to denuclearization talks.

Details of the sanctions are being finalized, but Clinton and other US officials said they would enhance and expand on existing international financial and travel sanctions.

The US will freeze additional assets, prevent more individuals from traveling abroad and collaborate with banks to stop suspect transactions, they said.

The US will also seek to stop North Korea's abuse of diplomatic privileges to carry out illegal activities, notably cigarette and currency counterfeiting and money laundering, they said.

The UN Security Council has imposed stiff sanctions on North Korea in recent years to punish the regime for defying the world body by testing nuclear weapons and long-range missiles, and illegally selling arms and weapons.

The council earlier this month approved a statement condemning the Cheonan incident, but did not directly blame Pyongyang. Still, the US and South Korea are adamant that North Korea apologize for the incident or face punishment, and warned against further provocations.

An international team of investigators pinned the explosion of the Cheonan on a torpedo fired from a North Korean submarine. But North Korea denies any involvement and has threatened war if punished for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 22, 2010, 01:15:23 PM
De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Event
     

Elected Reps. chose to hide details from American public for fear of reprisals from "the big forces" that run the media and the presidency

Steve Watson
Infowars.com
Thursday, Jul 15th, 2010

Over 1,100 pages of previously classified Vietnam-era transcripts released this week by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee highlight the fact that several Senators knew that the White House and the Pentagon had deceived the American people over the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident.

The latest releases, which document skepticism over the pretext for entry into the Vietnam war, date from 1968.

Four years into the war, senators were at loggerheads with Lyndon B. Johnson. At the time Foreign Relations Committee meetings were held behind closed doors.

It would take over thirty years for the truth to emerge that the Aug. 4, 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident, where US warships were apparently attacked by North Vietnamese PT Boats – an incident that kicked off US involvement in the Vietnam war – was a staged event that never actually took place.

However, the records now show that at the time senators knew this was the case.

In a March 1968 closed session of the Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Albert Gore Sr. of Tennessee, the father of former vice president Al Gore, noted:

"If this country has been misled, if this committee, this Congress, has been misled by pretext into a war in which thousands of young men have died, and many more thousands have been crippled for life, and out of which their country has lost prestige, moral position in the world, the consequences are very great,"

Senator Frank Church, Democrat of Idaho, said in an executive session in February 1968:

"In a democracy you cannot expect the people, whose sons are being killed and who will be killed, to exercise their judgment if the truth is concealed from them,"

Other senators were keen to withhold the truth about Tonkin in order not to inflame public opinion on the war:

Senator Mike Mansfield, Democrat of Montana, stated, "You will give people who are not interested in facts a chance to exploit them and to magnify them out of all proportion."

Mansfield was referring to the proposed release of a committee staff investigation that raised doubts over whether the Tonkin incident ever took place.

The committee decided in the end to effectively conceal the truth, with Senator Church noting that if the committee came up with proof that an attack never occurred, "we have a case that will discredit the military in the United States, and discredit and quite possibly destroy the president."

He also noted that if the senators were to follow up on their skepticism over Tonkin, "The big forces in this country that have most of the influence and run most of the newspapers and are oriented toward the presidency will lose no opportunity to thoroughly discredit this committee."

The LBJ Presidential tapes, declassified and released in 2001, prove that LBJ knew the Tonkin incident never happened. After dressing down his Defence Secretary Robert McNamara for misleading him, Johnson then discussed how to politically spin the non-event and escalate it as justification for air strikes.

"You just came in a few weeks ago and said they're launching an attack on us – they're firing at us," Johnson tells McNamara in one conversation, "and we got through with the firing and concluded maybe they hadn't fired at all."

The NSA also deliberately faked intelligence data to make it appear as if two US ships had been lost in the "attack".

Johnson used the 1964 false flag event to expand dramatically the scale of the Vietnam War by ushering in the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, as well as to rope in much needed domestic support with the Congress and public.

Perhaps if the Foreign Relations Committee hadn't been so afraid of "the big forces" controlling America, a large percentage of the almost 60,000 American soldiers and 2 million Vietnamese people wouldn't have lost their lives.

Sadly, modern day elected representatives have failed the American people in exactly the same way over the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on July 22, 2010, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on July 18, 2010, 04:27:54 AM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on July 17, 2010, 09:04:31 PM

What? Did it really take you 3 days to work that out? Thank God for education :D
u and your arsehole frie3nds on here can suck my a~~.....I've been sorting out the USA's mess for too long now to care about arsewipes like you and your f**kbuddies on here.
Stay in your bunker in Tralee :D

What are you smoking?

No answer Hedley? How is the sorting going?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on July 22, 2010, 10:20:42 PM
Woodbine since you are asking ;)

Sorting going great....some of the marines now know how to say please and thankyou in Arabic (officers obviously) 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on July 28, 2010, 09:42:13 AM
Land of the free....

CAIR: California Tea Party to use dogs to harass Muslim worshippers
By ARAB NEWS

Published: Jul 27, 2010 22:38 Updated: Jul 27, 2010 22:38

WASHINGTON: The Greater Los Angeles Area office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-LA) on Tuesday denounced a planned anti-mosque protest by California Tea Party supporters who are being told to bring dogs to harass Muslim worshippers during a Friday congregational prayer, or "Jummah."

CAIR-LA called on local officials and interfaith leaders to show support for the Islamic Center of Temecula Valley, the target of the July 30 protest by the Southwest Riverside County (SWRC) Tea Party group. The protest is in opposition to a proposal for a new mosque in the area.

An e-mail announcing the anti-mosque protest sent to area newspapers by "a leader of a conservative coalition that has been active with Republican and Tea Party functions" stated: "An Islamic Mosque is planned to be built in Temecula. Islam is not a religion. It is a worldwide political movement meant on domination of the world. And it is meant to subjugate all people under Islamic law ... Islam treats women as second class people and they also hate dogs. Women are forbidden to sing and dogs are killed. We will not be submissive to Shariah Law. Tennessee was able to stop the mosque so bring your bibles, flags, signs, dogs and singing voice on Friday."

"Californians of all faiths should repudiate those who would target a house of worship using tactics specifically designed to cause offense," said CAIR-LA Executive Director Hussam Ayloush. "National and state Tea Party leaders should explain why their movement has apparently deviated from its agenda on fiscal responsibility and limited government to the promotion of Islamophobia."

Ayloush noted that many Muslims believe the saliva of dogs invalidates the ritual ablution (wudu) performed before prayer. For this reason, it has become a cultural norm for individuals not to have dogs in their houses — not because the dog is "hated."

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) allowed the use of dogs for protection and for hunting, and he related several traditions in which individuals were rewarded by God for protecting animals, including dogs, and punished for mistreating them.

In response to the planned protest, the Islamic Center of Temecula Valley released a statement that read in part: "It has come to our attention that a group of people are seeking to disrupt our prayer session on Friday, July 30. We are disheartened and saddened that a group of our neighbors seeks to disrespect and make our community feel unwelcome."

Last week, CAIR called on Florida US Senate candidate Marco Rubio not to accept an invitation to take part in an Aug. 21 Tea Party rally featuring an extremist anti-Islam keynote speaker who stated that Muslims should not be allowed to hold public office, that an American Muslim "cannot be a loyal citizen" and that Islam is the "real enemy."

Earlier this month, CAIR offered support for an NAACP resolution asking the Tea Party movement to condemn racism within its ranks.

Other Islamophobic incidents nationwide indicate a growing level of anti-Islam sentiment in American society and a trend toward seeking to restrict American Muslim civil rights.

CAIR is America's largest Muslim civil liberties and advocacy organization. Its mission is to enhance the understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on July 28, 2010, 09:48:17 AM
Audit: US can't account for $8.7B in Iraqi funds


By ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: Jul 27, 2010 21:36 Updated: Jul 27, 2010 21:36

BAGHDAD: The US Defense Department is unable to properly account for over 95 percent of $9.1 billion in Iraqi oil money tapped by the US for rebuilding the war ravaged nation, according to an audit released Tuesday.

The report by the US Special Investigator for Iraq Reconstruction offers a compelling look at continued laxness in how such funds were being spent in a country where people complain basic services like electricity and clean water are sharply lacking seven years after the US-led invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein. :o :o :o

The audit found that shoddy record keeping by the Defense Department left the Pentagon unable to fully account for $8.7 billion it withdrew between 2004 and 2007 from a special fund set up by the UN Security Council. Of that amount, Pentagon "could not provide documentation to substantiate how it spent $2.6 billion." The funds are separate from the $53 billion allocated by Congress for rebuilding Iraq.

The report comes at a critical time for Iraq, which four months after inconclusive elections squabbling political factions have still not agreed on a new government.

Despite security gains made since 2008, bombings remain near a daily occurrence that compound the frustrations and fears of Iraqis increasingly weary of the political crisis — one many say reflects how the country's politicians are more interested in their own interests than those of the nation.

The continuing impasse was highlighted on Tuesday when Iraqi lawmakers gathered for the second time this month only to indefinitely postpone the parliamentary session because there was still no decision on the new government.

Acting speaker Fouad Massoum told reporters that the postponement was designed to give the political blocs more time to discuss contentious issues and agree on the distribution of positions in the new government.

"With every delay, the suffering of the Iraqi people and security risks are increasing," lawmaker Salman Al-Jumaili told reporters, criticizing the move.

The US audit is unlikely to do anything but further stoke that frustration felt by Iraqis who continue to suffer from poor infrastructure despite the billions spent.

The audit cited a number of factors behind the inability to account for most of the money withdrawn by the Pentagon from the Development Fund for Iraq.

It said most of the Defense Department organizations that received DFI money failed to set up Treasury Department accounts, as required.

In addition, it said no Defense Department organization was designated as the main body to oversee how the funds were accounted for or spent.

"The breakdown in controls left the funds vulnerable to inappropriate uses and undetected loss," the report said.

Calls to Iraqi officials for comment went unanswered.

The Defense Department, in responses attached to the audit, said it agreed with the recommendations laid out in the report about establishing better guidelines for monitoring such funds, including appointing an organization to be responsible for overseeing such funds mostly likely by November.

The audit found that the US continues to hold about $34.3 million of the money even though it was required to return it to the Iraqi government. :o :o :o

The audit did not indicate that investigators believed there were any instances of fraud involved in the spending of these funds.

The DFI includes revenues from Iraq's oil and gas exports, as well as frozen Iraqi assets and surplus funds from the now-defunct, Saddam Hussein-era oil-for-food program.

With the establishment of the Coalition Provisional Authority, which ran Iraq shortly after the start of the US invasion in 2003 until mid-2004, about $20 billion was placed into the account.

The Iraqi government had agreed to allow the US

continued access to the funds after the CPA was dissolved in 2004, but it revoked that authority in December 2007.

In other developments, seven people were killed in a series of bombings and apparent assassinations in Baghdad and Mosul, a northern city where Al-Qaeda is believed to still have a strong presence. Among those killed were two women shot dead in their home by gunmen and a Baghdad electricity official who died of wounds sustained after a morning roadside bombing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on July 28, 2010, 01:54:20 PM
There Goes The Tea Party
By Keith Johnson


What's going on with the Tea Party?  Remember the good old days when TEA was an acronym for "Taxed Enough Already?"  Today, it's starting to sound more like "Terminate Every Arab!"

It could be argued that the once noble Tea Party has been thrown to the wolves.  In its place is a political machine that has hijacked the Tea party name and is using it to stage a NeoCon-Republican comeback.

Last week, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) spoke at a press conference in Washington D.C. to announce the formation of a 44-member Tea party caucus in the House of Representatives.  All of the members are mainstream NeoCon Republicans with an allegiance to the state of Israel and an insatiable appetite for war.  As a matter of fact, of the 44 members, almost half of them have recently signed on to HR 1553, which endorses Israeli military action against Iran.  The resolution states that Israel should be allowed,  "to use all means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear threats posed by the Islamic Republic of Iran, including the use of military force."

Bachmann is a frightening woman who recently stated—at a Republican Jewish Coalition event—that "I am convinced in my heart and in my mind that if the United States fails to stand with Israel, that is the end of the United States . . . [W]e have to show that we are inextricably entwined, that as a nation we have been blessed because of our relationship with Israel, and if we reject Israel, then there is a curse that comes into play."

Sure, we all got excited when anti-incumbent fever swept the nation and wrangled to unseat many longtime Senators and career Congressmen.  But what did we get in return?  Let's take a look at some of the big primary winners—who have been dubbed "Tea Party candidates"—and hear what their position is on foreign policy issues like Israel, Afghanistan, Iran and the "so-called" war on terror:

Robert Hurt (R-VA)

'On September 11th thousands of innocent Americans were attacked by Osama Bin Laden and his terrorist regime known as Al Qaeda. This terrorist regime has only one goal–destroy America and end our free and prosperous way of life.'

'We need to ensure that fully funding our anti-terrorism efforts at home and abroad is the top priority for our government. As we wage this effort for freedom and security of the American people, we need to stand behind our brave soldiers who are fighting and dying for us. The United States needs to remain vigilant and do everything in our power to monitor, track and defeat these terrorists at home and abroad.'

Mike Lee (R-UT)

"The government currently ruling in Iran presents a threat to the security of both the United States and Israel. I will therefore support efforts to place pressure on the government of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, with an eye toward persuading Iran to abandon its nuclear weapons ambitions. Should those efforts prove unsuccessful, military action would be justified."

"I support direct talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority based on the fundamental principals that Israel should remain (and be recognized by the Palestinians as) a Jewish state, Israel must have safe and secure borders and the ability to monitor and protect those borders, and any peace treaty must bring a permanent end to any and all claims of the Palestinians."

Sharron Angle (R-NV)

'Israel, a democratic nation, is the United States' strongest ally in the Middle East. Israel's sovereignty, stability and security are in the best interests of the United States, especially when dealing with radical Islamic terrorism.'

Tom Graves (R-GA)

In reference to H.R. 5501, the "America Stands With Israel Act" that he helped co-sponsor:

'Our alliance with Israel is of great importance and I strongly support their right to defend their interests. America's commitment to Israel must be solid, and I am proud to join Rep. King and co-sponsor this important legislation.'

Jon Runyan (R-NJ)

'The special bond between the United States of America and Israel must never be broken, and believe strongly that the first step to peace in the Middle East is ensuring that Israelis and their Democratic way of life is secure. First and foremost that means that Israel's neighbors must recognize their right to exist.

The United States must stand with Israel in preventing Iran from achieving nuclear capabilities that can threaten Israel and further de-stabilize the region, and continue cooperative efforts both militarily and economically. As a member of Congress, I will strongly support continued foreign aid to Israel to ensure they have the tools necessary to stand strong in the face of hostilities by their enemies.'

Scott Rigell (R-VA)

From a press release reprimanding Congressman Nye for being one of 54 Democratic representatives who called upon Israel in a signed letter to lift travel restrictions in Gaza:

"Having just returned from a fact-finding visit to Israel, where I met with senior Israel leadership and saw firsthand the rockets that have terrorized the city of Sderot and neighboring cities in the south of Israel, I am stunned by our freshman congressman's decision to sign this letter.  By signing the letter and aligning himself with the most liberal members of our Congress, including John Conyer, Jim McGovern and Barbara Lee, Congressman Nye seems more concerned about the rights of Hamas than innocent Israeli citizens.  Our freshman congressman fails to fully understand that Hamas is an organization that openly calls for the destruction of the State of Israel and has used Israel's voluntary withdrawal from Gaza to turn schools into terrorist bases, homes into rocket launch pads, and market places into battlefields.  The travel restrictions on Gaza are reasonable given Israel's right, indeed its duty, to protect its citizens.  Our freshman congressman has made clear that he has a naïve world view and a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature and scope of the threat posed by Hamas to the citizens of our ally, Israel."

And let's not forget the darling of the Neo-Tea Party movement, Sarah Palin, whose positions on Israel and foreign policy are well known to us all.

Jane Fryer of the Daily Mail has been touring the American mid-west on the trail of the tea party movement.  Jane is an ardent left-winger, but nonetheless prudent in her reporting on things I've witnessed myself.

During a visit to a small town in Kansas, Jane ran into a burly fellow at a Tea Party rally who spoke to her through a cheek full of tobacco:

'I love Sarah Palin, I just LOVE her. She's bright, she's clever and she thinks like we do, she acts like we do and she lives like we do.  She listens to the people, and she has a proven track record. She talks the talk and walks the walk and she'd make a wonderful president.'

And he's not the only fan.  The big guy's neighbor couldn't wait to throw his two cents in:

'What's more, she's got good old common horse sense, as we call it round here. She tells it like it is. And she can shoot and skin a moose! Not many world leaders can do that.'

O.K., I admit, that was only two out of the 26 attendees.  You're probably thinking there were at least a few who had a less than favorable opinion about the good ship Mrs. Palin, right?

Let's hear from 63-year-old Dee Sadler, the organizer of this humble Tea Party event:

'I just hope she runs for president. She's the only person who can unite the Tea Party movement and the Republican Party. Sarah Palin is America's last hope!'

To which the entire groupof 26 chimed in with a chorus of:

'Amen."

'Sarah Palin for President.'  Think about that.

If you took this woman's brain and transplanted it into the body of a middle aged homeless man, you'd have a disheveled vagrant standing on the corner—somewhere in Anchorage, Alaska—hoisting a cardboard sign over his head that reads: 'Jesus is coming...and he's pissed!'

I guess a Sarah Palin-style theocray is precisely what some people want.  It certainly is in this sleepy little Kansas town.

But I know—you're going to tell me that this is only one small group of people who don't really represent the majority of Tea Party activists, right?  Maybe it is—but I'm not finding evidence of real anti-war sentiment among the ranks of the Tea Party members I've run into!  Could it be that the only reason the Tea Party has any press at all is because the Tea Party movement is now predominantly comprised of war loving, Arab hating NeoCons who reminisce about the good old Bush-Cheney days?

For those infiltrators who are now emerging as Tea Party leaders, it's no longer about taxes.  It's about where those taxes go.  Government run health care, Wall Street bailouts and cap-and-trade schemes are just things that are competing for that precious war dollar.  Is this the same Tea Party that you and I enthusiastically put our endorsement behind?

The Tea Party began as a suggestion by CNBC's Rick Santelli, who called for a "Chicago Tea Party" to revolt against the Obama Administration's mortgage bailout plan. That suggestion became a reality when Ron Paul supporters adopted the Tea Party moniker to advance the ideals of their great statesman.

If you want to know what the Tea Party was all about, just follow the career of Ron Paul.  Ron Paul is about limited government, abolishing the Fed and bringing an end to these never-ending—needless wars.

But that's not what it has become.

Today, the Tea Party has become a branch of the GOP.  And whose fault is that?  Mine...yours, and everyone else who didn't step up to the plate and take an aggressive stand against the warmongering infiltrators who came to silence our message of peace.

What did we expect would happen when we let Israel's favorite shiksa, Sarah Palin, feel welcome at our Tea Party functions?  We should have been there from day one calling her out and sending her home!  We should have stepped in front of news cameras and made it nice and sparkling clear that these hijackers were only here to poison the well and stake a claim on a movement they had no part in creating.

Now I fear that it just may be too late to get it back.  The problem now is that public perception of what the Tea Party is about is relegated to this faction of NeoCons, who are the only ones whose voices are being heard.

Do we really want to spend our time defending ourselves against the missteps of others or trying to explain that our Tea Party is not the same Tea Party that everyone is used to hearing about?  That's exactly what they want us to do.

Maybe it's about time we just started identifying ourselves as Americans.  What's wrong with that?

I submit that we should distance ourselves from parties and affiliations.  We're not part of a movement, a rebellion or a revolution.  Our war was won over 200 years ago and we emerged victorious.

The GOP, the Democrats and many of those who now identify themselves as Tea Party activists are the real rebels and revolutionaries.  They have rebelled against the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence and everything else America stands for.

I'm an American, plain and simple—and from now on, that's the only thing I'm going to identify myself as
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on July 29, 2010, 08:56:05 AM
Cancer rate in Fallujah worse than Hiroshima
By TOM ELEY | WSWS.ORG

Published: Jul 28, 2010 20:11 Updated: Jul 28, 2010 20:11

The Iraqi city of Fallujah continues to suffer the ghastly consequences of a US military onslaught in late 2004.

According to the authors of a new study, "Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah, Iraq 2005–2009," the people of Fallujah are experiencing higher rates of cancer, leukemia, infant mortality, and sexual mutations than those recorded among survivors in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the years after those Japanese cities were incinerated by US atomic bomb strikes in 1945.

The epidemiological study, published in the International Journal of Environmental Studies and Public Health (IJERPH), also finds the prevalence of these conditions in Fallujah to be many times greater than in nearby nations.

The assault on Fallujah, a city located 43 miles west of Baghdad, was one of the most horrific war crimes of our time. After the population resisted the US-led occupation of Iraq — a war of neo-colonial plunder launched on the basis of lies — Washington determined to make an example of the largely Sunni city. This is called "exemplary" or "collective" punishment and is, according to the laws of war, illegal.

The new public health study of the city now all but proves what has long been suspected: that a high proportion of the weaponry used in the assault contained depleted uranium, a radioactive substance used in shells to increase their effectiveness.

In a study of 711 houses and 4,843 individuals carried out in January and February 2010, authors Chris Busby, Malak Hamdan, Entesar Ariabi and a team of researchers found that the cancer rate had increased fourfold since before the US attack five years ago, and that the forms of cancer in Fallujah are similar to those found among the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bomb survivors, who were exposed to intense fallout radiation.

In Fallujah the rate of leukemia is 38 times higher, the childhood cancer rate is 12 times higher, and breast cancer is 10 times more common than in populations in Egypt, Jordan, and Kuwait. Heightened levels of adult lymphoma and brain tumors were also reported. At 80 deaths out of every 1,000 births, the infant mortality rate in Fallujah is more than five times higher than in Egypt and Jordan, and eight times higher than in Kuwait.

Strikingly, after 2005 the proportion of girls born in Fallujah has increased sharply. In normal populations, 1,050 boys are born for every 1,000 girls. But among those born in Fallujah in the four years after the US assault, the ratio was reduced to 860 boys for every 1,000 female births. This alteration is similar to gender ratios found in Hiroshima after the US atomic attack of 1945.

The most likely reason for the change in the sex ratio, according to the researchers, is the impact of a major mutagenic event — likely the use of depleted uranium in US weapons. While boys have one X-chromosome, girls have a redundant X-chromosome and can therefore absorb the loss of one chromosome through genetic damage.

"This is an extraordinary and alarming result," said Busby, a professor of molecular biosciences at the University of Ulster and director of scientific research for Green Audit, an independent environmental research group. "To produce an effect like this, some very major mutagenic exposure must have occurred in 2004 when the attacks happened. We need urgently to find out what the agent was. Although many suspect uranium, we cannot be certain without further research and independent analysis of samples from the area."

Busby told an Italian television news station, RAI 24, that the "extraordinary" increase in radiation-related maladies in Fallujah is higher than that found in the populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the US atomic strikes of 1945. "My guess is that this was caused by depleted uranium," he said. "They must be connected."

The US military uses depleted uranium, also known as spent nuclear fuel, in armor-piercing shells and bullets because it is twice as dense as lead. Once these shells hit their target, however, as much as 40 percent of the uranium is released in the form of tiny particles in the area of the explosion. It can remain there for years, easily entering the human bloodstream, where it lodges itself in lymph glands and attacks the DNA produced in the sperm and eggs of affected adults, causing, in turn, serious birth defects in the next generation.

The research is the first systematic scientific substantiation of a body of evidence showing a sharp increase in infant mortality, birth defects, and cancer in Fallujah.

In October of 2009, several Iraqi and British doctors wrote a letter to the United Nations demanding an inquiry into the proliferation of radiation-related sickness in the city:

"Young women in Fallujah in Iraq are terrified of having children because of the increasing number of babies born grotesquely deformed, with no heads, two heads, a single eye in their foreheads, scaly bodies or missing limbs. In addition, young children in Fallujah are now experiencing hideous cancers and leukemias....

"In September 2009, Fallujah General Hospital had 170 newborn babies, 24 percent of whom were dead within the first seven days, a staggering 75 percent of the dead babies were classified as deformed....

"Doctors in Fallujah have specifically pointed out that not only are they witnessing unprecedented numbers of birth defects, but premature births have also considerably increased after 2003. But what is more alarming is that doctors in Fallujah have said, 'a significant number of babies that do survive begin to develop severe disabilities at a later stage.'"

The Pentagon responded to this report by asserting that there were no studies to prove any proliferation of deformities or other maladies associated with US military actions. "No studies to date have indicated environmental issues resulting in specific health issues," a Defense Department spokesman told the BBC in March. There have been no studies, however, in large part because Washington and Baghdad have blocked them.

According to the authors of "Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah," the Iraqi authorities attempted to scuttle their survey. "hortly after the questionnaire survey was completed, Iraqi TV reportedly broadcast that a questionnaire survey was being carried out by terrorists and that anyone who was answering or administering the questionnaire could be arrested," the study reports.

The history of the atrocity committed by American imperialism against the people of Fallujah began on April 28, 2003, when US Army soldiers fired indiscriminately into a crowd of about 200 residents protesting the conversion of a local school into a US military base. Seventeen were killed in the unprovoked attack, and two days later American soldiers fired on a protest against the murders, killing two more.

This intensified popular anger, and Fallujah became a center of the Sunni resistance against the occupation — and US reprisals. On March 31, 2004, an angry crowd stopped a convoy of the private security firm Blackwater USA, responsible for its own share of war crimes. Four Blackwater mercenaries were dragged from their vehicles, beaten, burned, and hung from a bridge over the Euphrates River.

The US military then promised it would pacify the city, with one unnamed officer saying it would be turned into "a killing field," but Operation Vigilant Resolve, involving thousands of Marines, ended in the abandonment of the siege by the US military in May, 2004. The victory of Fallujah's residents against overwhelming military superiority was celebrated throughout Iraq and watched all over the world.

The Pentagon delivered its response in November 2004. The city was surrounded, and all those left inside were declared to be enemy combatants and fair game for the most heavily equipped killing machine in world history. The Associated Press reported that men attempting to flee the city with their families were turned back into the slaughterhouse.

In the attack, the US made heavy use of the chemical agent white phosphorus. Ostensibly used only for illuminating battlefields, white phosphorus causes terrible and often fatal wounds, burning its way through building material and clothing before eating away skin and then bone. The chemical was also used to suck the oxygen out of buildings where civilians were hiding.

Washington's desire for revenge against the population is indicated by the fact that the US military reported about the same number of "gunmen" killed (1,400) as those taken alive as prisoners (1,300-1,500). In one instance, NBC News captured video footage of a US soldier executing a wounded and helpless Iraqi man. A Navy investigation later found the Marine had been acting in self-defense.

Fifty-one US soldiers died in 10 days of combat. The true number of city residents who were killed is not known. The city's population before the attack was estimated to be between 425,000 and 600,000. The current population is believed to be between 250,000 and 300,000. Tens of thousands, mostly women and children, fled in advance of the attack. Half of the city's building were destroyed, most of these reduced to rubble.

Like much of Iraq, Fallujah remains in ruins. According to a recent report from IRIN, a project of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, Fallujah still has no functioning sewage system six years after the attack. "Waste pours onto the streets and seeps into drinking water supplies," the report notes. "Abdul-Sattar Kadhum Al-Nawaf, director of Fallujah general hospital, said the sewage problem had taken its toll on residents' health. They were increasingly affected by diarrhea, tuberculosis, typhoid and other communicable diseases."

The savagery of the US assault shocked the world, and added the name Fallujah to an infamous list that includes My Lai, Sabra-Shatila, Guérnica, Nanking, Lidice, and Wounded Knee.

But unlike those other massacres, the crime against Fallujah did not end when the bullets were no longer fired or the bombs stopped falling.

The US military's decision to heavily deploy depleted uranium, all but proven by "Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah," was a wanton act of brutality, poisoning an entire generation of children not yet born in 2004.

The Fallujah study is timely, with the US now preparing a major escalation of the violence in Afghanistan. The former head of US Afghanistan operations, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, was replaced last month after a media campaign, assisted by a Rolling Stone magazine feature, accused him, among other things, of tying the hands of US soldiers in their response to Afghan insurgents.

McChrystal was replaced by Gen. David Petraeus, formerly head of the US Central Command. Petraeus has outlined new rules of engagement designed to allow for the use of disproportionate force against suspected militants.

Petraeus, in turn, was replaced at Central Command by Gen. James "Mad Dog" Mattis, who played a key planning role in the US assault on Fallujah in 2004. Mattis revels in killing, telling a public gathering in 2005 "it's fun to shoot some people.... You know, it's a hell of a hoot."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on July 29, 2010, 10:27:33 AM
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2065/georgiakd2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 29, 2010, 10:46:57 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 29, 2010, 10:27:33 AM
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2065/georgiakd2.jpg)

:D

As an obvious Sarah Palin voter, she should know you have to go to Alaska to be able to watch Russia.

(Always remember these monkeys have nuclear weapons).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 29, 2010, 04:55:31 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 29, 2010, 10:27:33 AM
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2065/georgiakd2.jpg)

That is very funny.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
No surprise here that the same two lads that each googled and or called my home ph #  :D
would be the ones to jump in with both wellingtons to what was an obvious gaffe...
Caught again lads.....Well done O'Neill :D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 29, 2010, 08:16:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
No surprise here that the same two lads that each googled and or called my home ph #  :D
would be the ones to jump in with both wellingtons to what was an obvious gaffe...
Caught again lads.....Well done O'Neill :D :D

What is this about? Another fantasy????

Edit: Ah, this the phone number you posted which you said was yours but inevitably wasn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 29, 2010, 08:24:43 PM
 
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
No surprise here that the same two lads that each googled and or called my home ph #  :D
would be the ones to jump in with both wellingtons to what was an obvious gaffe...
Caught again lads.....Well done O'Neill :D :D

That is quite possibly the most bizarre thing I've ever seen posted here.

Sorry - it's DEFINITELY the most bizarre thing I've ever seen posted here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:31:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 29, 2010, 08:16:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
No surprise here that the same two lads that each googled and or called my home ph #  :D
would be the ones to jump in with both wellingtons to what was an obvious gaffe...
Caught again lads.....Well done O'Neill :D :D

What is this about? Another fantasy????

Edit: Ah, this the phone number you posted which you said was yours but inevitably wasn't.
Yes exactly....memory suddenly come back then? again well done O'Neill :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 29, 2010, 08:33:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:31:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 29, 2010, 08:16:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
No surprise here that the same two lads that each googled and or called my home ph #  :D
would be the ones to jump in with both wellingtons to what was an obvious gaffe...
Caught again lads.....Well done O'Neill :D :D

What is this about? Another fantasy????

Edit: Ah, this the phone number you posted which you said was yours but inevitably wasn't.
Yes exactly....memory suddenly come back then? again well done O'Neill :D

Well it is hard to keep up with your fantasies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on July 29, 2010, 08:38:42 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 29, 2010, 10:27:33 AM
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2065/georgiakd2.jpg)

there are bigger thicks on this thread o neill
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on July 29, 2010, 08:41:43 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on July 29, 2010, 08:38:42 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 29, 2010, 10:27:33 AM
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2065/georgiakd2.jpg)

there are bigger thicks on this thread o neill

It is also a running joke on Yahoo

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqokAVyF24xLazUC11yjH5TG7BR.;_ylv=3?qid=20081107172832AAye13W
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magickingdom on July 29, 2010, 08:44:47 PM
speaking of fantasies - Pakistan is trying to get reality going

Clampdown on TV shows peddling conspiracy theories

ROB CRILLY

ISLAMABAD LETTER: Proposed media Bill will stamp out criticism of the government as well as Pakistan's raucous new talk shows, say opponents

THE CIA was responsible for crashing two airliners into the twin towers on 9/11. Indian spies are the hidden hand behind terror attacks blamed on Pakistan. And Islamabad is riddled with Blackwater agents on covert operations.

Every evening millions of people sit down to watch Pakistan's burgeoning number of TV talk shows, which peddle a popular line in conspiracy theories, paranoia and anti-American sentiment.

But now the government is planning a controversial media clampdown to rein in the shock jocks and curb what ministers believe is a dangerous tendency to glamorise terrorism.

The proposed Pakistan electronic media regulatory authority Bill would ban live coverage of militant attacks and the broadcast of anything "defamatory against the organs of the state" – a broad definition opponents believe will stamp out criticism of the government and the raucous new shows.

"There's no doubt about it," said Zaid Hamid, one of the country's most colourful and controversial talk show hosts, "the target is programmes like mine."

The issue cuts to the core of modern Pakistan, an often conservative Muslim society grappling with democracy after a decade of military rule. The government is struggling to contain a growing extremist threat and knows its close relationship with the US puts it at constant risk of a backlash.

Conspiracy theories are popular among a population that views the American-led war on terror with suspicion.

With his red hat and grey goatee, Hamid is one of the most recognisable – and feared – of the new breed of presenter.

He coined the term Hindu Zionist to describe the Israeli and Indian forces he believes are allied in a plot to destabilise Pakistan. And he has repeatedly advocated invading India.

His show, Brass Tacks , which focuses on the country's military establishment, was massively popular with young people but was pulled recently after protests from student groups who believed he was intent on creating a cult of personality.

He is also under investigation in a murder case, allegations he believes are politically motivated.

"I am being lent on all the time by people with a pro-US agenda just because I tell the truth they don't want to hear," he said.

Other controversial figures include Hamid Mir, host of Capital Talk , who is revered as one of Pakistan's most influential journalists. Hillary Clinton and Osama bin Laden are among his interviewees. Indeed, he was the last journalist to interview bin Laden. However, his access to al- Qaeda-linked militants has led many to question whether he is a sympathiser with their extremist position. A tape recording surfaced recently of a phone conversation he is alleged to have had with Jihadi gunmen, apparently urging them to kill a hostage. He claims the tape is faked. The phenomenon is relatively new. Dozens of private channels sprouted during the early 2000s under former president Pervez Musharraf. Today they number almost 100.

As they chase ratings and advertising, the presenters have become more extreme. News shows try to outdo each other with gory images of dead bodies or interviews with militant leaders. The result is a major problem for a government in Islamabad which has belatedly woken up to the threat posed by militant groups to its own existence – after years funding Jihadi organisations in Afghanistan and Kashmir.

Talat Masood, a retired Pakistani general who now works as a political analyst, said the shows were fomenting strong destabilising forces.

"The government doesn't have the political will to say they are on the right course, whether that's about tackling militants or a close relationship with the US.

"That leaves these hosts to operate in a vacuum, and they can develop their own narrative – anti-western, anti-American, anti-government, anti-democracy."

The new government, under President Asif Ali Zardari, had until now been content to leave well alone, hoping self-regulation would be enough as the new industry began to mature. Attempts to introduce voluntary codes of conduct have stalled. Farahnaz Ispahani, a member of the ruling party who sits on the standing committee on information and broadcasting, said the legislation was part of the war on terror, designed to stop militants using the airwaves.

"One view is that the problem is the owners don't give a damn about anything other than ratings, so they want their programmes and news shows to be as sensationalist as possible," she said. "On the other hand, the party believes in media freedom so it's a complicated issue." Offenders could be sentenced to up to three years in jail or a fined a maximum of 10 million rupees (€90,000). That leaves government and media squaring up for a clash. Mazhar Abbas, deputy director of news and current affairs at the ARY channel, said the proposals would be challenged. "The media will not accept any form of suppression from the government," he said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 29, 2010, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on July 29, 2010, 08:38:42 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 29, 2010, 10:27:33 AM
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2065/georgiakd2.jpg)

there are bigger thicks on this thread o neill

http://failblog.org/2008/08/19/geography-fail/ (http://failblog.org/2008/08/19/geography-fail/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 09:30:57 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 29, 2010, 08:24:43 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
No surprise here that the same two lads that each googled and or called my home ph #  :D
would be the ones to jump in with both wellingtons to what was an obvious gaffe...
Caught again lads.....Well done O'Neill :D :D

That is quite possibly the most bizarre thing I've ever seen posted here.

Sorry - it's DEFINITELY the most bizarre thing I've ever seen posted here.
:-[ that's the best ye could do Hardly? Shoulda quit while Ye were just kinda behind  :-[  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 29, 2010, 09:42:31 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 09:30:57 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 29, 2010, 08:24:43 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
No surprise here that the same two lads that each googled and or called my home ph #  :D
would be the ones to jump in with both wellingtons to what was an obvious gaffe...
Caught again lads.....Well done O'Neill :D :D

That is quite possibly the most bizarre thing I've ever seen posted here.

Sorry - it's DEFINITELY the most bizarre thing I've ever seen posted here.
:-[ that's the best ye could do Hardly? Shoulda quit while Ye were just kinda behind  :-[  :D

There is no proof that it was a hoax and it seems the jury is out, but then you rarely burden yourself with anything concrete.

We just have to accept Tyrone's Own's word for it, do we?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 10:13:19 PM
Well I've personally seen 5 or 6 versions of the same thing
But with different names etc doing the email rounds back
18 months ago, around the time of the Tina Fay skits but sure
hey... if That black crow is white to save face then so be it  :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 29, 2010, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 10:13:19 PM
Well I've personally seen 5 or 6 versions of the same thing
But with different names etc doing the email rounds back
18 months ago, around the time of the Tina Fay skits but sure
hey... if That black crow is white to save face then so be it  :-\

Well I have met Americans who didn't know Ireland was a country (they thought it was something to do with Notre Dame) but then again I persuaded a guy from home that the Port Tunnel has a roundabout in it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 10:20:52 PM
Exactly... There are gobshites everywhere that fall for stuff
In trying to be funny
* see top of last page *  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 29, 2010, 10:21:53 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 10:20:52 PM
Exactly... There are gobshites everywhere that fall for stuff
In trying to be funny
* see top of page *  ;)

Wrong page.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 30, 2010, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 09:30:57 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 29, 2010, 08:24:43 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 29, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
No surprise here that the same two lads that each googled and or called my home ph #  :D
would be the ones to jump in with both wellingtons to what was an obvious gaffe...
Caught again lads.....Well done O'Neill :D :D

That is quite possibly the most bizarre thing I've ever seen posted here.

Sorry - it's DEFINITELY the most bizarre thing I've ever seen posted here.
:-[ that's the best ye could do Hardly? Shoulda quit while Ye were just kinda behind  :-[  :D

When can we expect the Mad Hatter and the March Hare?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 30, 2010, 02:16:10 PM
QuoteWhen can we expect the Mad Hatter and the March Hare?
* See top of the last page *  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on July 30, 2010, 02:17:55 PM
:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(

Yep, they all work. You can stop now, Tyrones own
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 30, 2010, 02:19:55 PM
Done ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on September 18, 2010, 11:49:42 AM
The only God in America.....(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JRo08CeVJrc/ScmcBuXqkoI/AAAAAAAAAKg/EbrDzn2RLVA/s400/dollarbill.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia_0nP8V46A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvs5AKKNiNE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzsciDbRAVU&feature=related
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on September 19, 2010, 08:44:25 AM
Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on September 18, 2010, 11:49:42 AM
The only God in America.....(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JRo08CeVJrc/ScmcBuXqkoI/AAAAAAAAAKg/EbrDzn2RLVA/s400/dollarbill.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia_0nP8V46A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvs5AKKNiNE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzsciDbRAVU&feature=related


And in Ireland....................http://www.politics.ie/current-affairs/20190-irish-firms-making-iraq-war-weapon-parts-amnesty.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on September 20, 2010, 08:08:58 PM
How they see us: Is Palin ready to lead the world?

Sarah Palin could not have arisen in any country but the U.S., said Janice Turner in Britain's The Times. It's not just that the Republican vice presidential candidate is a gun-toting moose hunter or an evangelical creationist opposed to abortion, two female types in short supply in Europe. It's her feistiness. "American women such as Mrs. Palin—whatever their politics—exhilarate with their sense of limitless opportunity, their unquestioning can-do." This vim comes partly from their unbridled, not to say unwarranted, self-confidence. "Not overburdened with self-doubt or introspection, they plough on." What a sight to behold!

"But the Sarah Palin Story is not just a show," said Alice Miles, also in The Times. Her breathtaking political incorrectness is certainly entertaining—this is a woman who wants to drill for oil in the parks and kill polar bears. But her utter lack of qualification for high office is not amusing; it's frightening. Does anyone believe that a woman who was mayor of a tiny Alaska town and then governor of that virtually empty state for 20 months is ready to step into the most powerful job on earth? "They call it feminism, but the Republicans have done women a disservice. They have selected a female candidate who is a cartoon," and her candidacy may well end up looking like "a joke."

Palin seems to have been chosen not just for her gender, said Luis Lema in Switzerland's Le Temps, but also for her attack-dog skills. In her prime-time speech during the Republican convention last week, she "didn't elucidate a single policy," either foreign or domestic. Instead, "she aimed her fangs at her rival," hurling insult after insult at Barack Obama and the Democrats. Her main qualification seems to be that she comes from a small town, which supposedly makes her more authentically American than Obama.

How absurd: You can't claim "a higher moral standing for coming from a great big empty on the map," said Heather Mallick in Britain's The Guardian. Canadians like me know Alaska well. Alaska is "our redneck cousin," a "frontier state full of drunks and crazy people." It is the backwoods even by Canadian standards. And Palin knows nothing else. In her whole life as an Alaskan, she visited neighboring Canada "precisely once"—and she got a passport only last year, to go see Alaskan National Guard troops in Kuwait. Does America really need another president who makes a virtue out of utter ignorance of the world?

Of course not, said Thomas Klau in Germany's Financial Times Deutschland. What's truly alarming is that it's not far-fetched to imagine that Palin could end up president—and sooner rather than later. "American presidents are extremely vulnerable to attack," as the JFK assassination and attempted assassinations of Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan make all too stark. And of course, there is the matter of McCain's advanced age. Yet much of the U.S. media has been obsessively focused on "Palin's family and personality," rather than on the thin credentials of this woman who could be running the free world in a few months. "The nation where this is taking place is the mightiest on earth. But for how much longer?"


Would any of you seriously vote for her?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 20, 2010, 08:27:32 PM
QuoteAnd of course, there is the matter of McCain's advanced age.[/qoute]

Is this an old article?

Either way this is the country who elected Dubya, it could easily elect Palin. We would be better off if they elected Paul the Octopus.

American politics is often about who they don't want elected rather than who they do, leaving a Dubya type getting in. As Homer Simpon said: "default, the two greatest words in the english language".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 20, 2010, 10:33:33 PM
http://www.prisonplanet.com/canadian-government-pays-organization-to-troll-political-chat-forums.html (http://www.prisonplanet.com/canadian-government-pays-organization-to-troll-political-chat-forums.html)

Nah couldn't be true............
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 26, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100926/ap_on_re_as/as_philippines_us_inverted_flag

Ye honestly couldn't make this stuff up.... fecking embarrassment to the Country much less the world stage.... idiots! :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ardmhachaabu on September 26, 2010, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 26, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100926/ap_on_re_as/as_philippines_us_inverted_flag

Ye honestly couldn't make this stuff up.... fecking embarrassment to the Country much less the world stage.... idiots! :-[
Are you saying Dubya was any better?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 26, 2010, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on September 26, 2010, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 26, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100926/ap_on_re_as/as_philippines_us_inverted_flag

Ye honestly couldn't make this stuff up.... fecking embarrassment to the Country much less the world stage.... idiots! :-[
Are you saying Dubya was any better?
No but it's an interesting comparison you bring up  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ardmhachaabu on September 26, 2010, 06:41:43 PM
I didn't draw a comparison, I asked you a question.  You drew the comparison, wrongly.  FWIW, I don't think it would be fair to even try to draw comparisons with both men.  Obama has a brain, Dubya doesn't
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 26, 2010, 07:38:00 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on September 26, 2010, 06:41:43 PM
I didn't draw a comparison, I asked you a question.  You drew the comparison, wrongly.  FWIW, I don't think it would be fair to even try to draw comparisons with both men.  Obama has a brain, Dubya doesn't
:D If ye didn't make the comparison then why did you feel the need to bring W in to it then ??? Why not comment on the fact that Obama and his inept handlers
accidentally displayed an inverted Philippine flag — which wrongfully signified that the Southeast Asian nation was in a state of war [/u]
...And yet it's .. s t i l l.....  Bush who has no brain  ::)
I suppose if this story included Palin then the Idiocy of it would no doubt be a little more clearer to some of ye!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ardmhachaabu on September 26, 2010, 09:50:18 PM
You called them idiots, I reminded you that Dubya was and is a bigger idiot than Obama

Have you got that so far?

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 26, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100926/ap_on_re_as/as_philippines_us_inverted_flag

Ye honestly couldn't make this stuff up.... fecking embarrassment to the Country much less the world stage.... idiots! :-[
[/b]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 26, 2010, 10:49:39 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on September 26, 2010, 09:50:18 PM
You called them idiots, I reminded you that Dubya was and is a bigger idiot than Obama

Have you got that so far?

Quote from: Tyrones own on September 26, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100926/ap_on_re_as/as_philippines_us_inverted_flag

Ye honestly couldn't make this stuff up.... fecking embarrassment to the Country much less the world stage.... idiots! :-[
[/b]
Put it this way; if I didn't get it, I sure as Fcuk wouldn't be asking you of all people for clarity  ::)
Got that?  ...cheeky pup
Ye clearly don't even get the irony of that signature you have there, do ye  :-X
Don't have the balls or the knowledge base for that matter to comment on the content of my link
without scraping that barrel in dragging Bush in to it...a g a i n * yawn*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ardmhachaabu on September 26, 2010, 11:14:16 PM
You know something TO, the fact that this has annoyed you enough for you to post about it on the internet first and foremost says enough about you. 

Now, as I said before, you called them idiots, that's what sparked this exchange off... Remember?

I reminded you that Dubya was and is a bigger idiot than Obama ever could be.  Remember?


Quote from: Tyrones own on September 26, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100926/ap_on_re_as/as_philippines_us_inverted_flag

Ye honestly couldn't make this stuff up.... fecking embarrassment to the Country much less the world stage.... idiots! :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2010, 02:40:24 PM
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/bush_i_was_a_dissenting_voice_on_iraq_war.php (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/bush_i_was_a_dissenting_voice_on_iraq_war.php)

George D. Bush: "I was a dissenting voice" on Iraq War.



It is not clear if he fully understands the word dissenting.

Nor is it clear that he fully comprehends the words voice, Iraq, was, War, on, a or I.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 03, 2010, 02:50:22 PM
Will the congressional loses be of benefit to Obama in the longrun? 

Is it kinda like what would happen after a general election in Ireland.  We'd see how the opposition would try and turn things around and if they will succeed.  Interesting times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 03, 2010, 05:50:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2010, 02:40:24 PM
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/bush_i_was_a_dissenting_voice_on_iraq_war.php (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/bush_i_was_a_dissenting_voice_on_iraq_war.php)

George D. Bush: "I was a dissenting voice" on Iraq War.



It is not clear if he fully understands the word dissenting.

Nor is it clear that he fully comprehends the words voice, Iraq, was, War, on, a or I.
You'd think By Resurrecting This Thread That You'd Atleast Give Props To
The American people For making It Quite Clear That We're Simply Not Interested
In Obama's Marxist/Leninist Type Governance  ;D

Oh And Attacking And Blaming Dubya is Washed Up Evidenced By Last Night..So Give It Up :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2010, 06:05:44 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 03, 2010, 02:50:22 PM
Will the congressional loses be of benefit to Obama in the longrun? 

Is it kinda like what would happen after a general election in Ireland.  We'd see how the opposition would try and turn things around and if they will succeed.  Interesting times.

It could go either way. The GOP have no agenda beyond obstructing Obama at every turn. Their proposals before the election involved cutting the deficit while not touching defense, Medicare or Social Security - in other words, they'll abolish everything that the federal goverment does apart from defense, Medicare or Social Security. Whether the ludicrous nature of these policies becomes obvious and works to Obama's advantage remains to be seen. I'm not optimistic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 03, 2010, 06:44:55 PM
thought this was a very interesting election, both in tactics from both republican and democrat. The level of desperation from some of the candidates in their approach in the last couple of days, and the result.

As always interpretation of the results are an art despite protestations of their science. And again TO's view above is far from a shocker, and is one shared by millions in the US. One of the most interesting comments I thought was Clinton's (Bill) about the sppeding train. In my view this president is setting the US on a much better path than it has been taking, and the results of that shift will take a while to show themselves. I would have liked to hear a republican come out a set a game plan that wasn't negative but hey, we live in hope. Going to be an interesting 2 years, I fear however there will be a preservation of the status quo when the US needs most to be retaking a leadership position in the world, Norway as the richest, most innovative countrya nd best place to live just doesnt sit right with me...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 03, 2010, 11:57:19 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 03, 2010, 06:44:55 PM
thought this was a very interesting election, both in tactics from both republican and democrat. The level of desperation from some of the candidates in their approach in the last couple of days, and the result.

As always interpretation of the results are an art despite protestations of their science. And again TO's view above is far from a shocker, and is one shared by millions in the US. One of the most interesting comments I thought was Clinton's (Bill) about the sppeding train. In my view this president is setting the US on a much better path than it has been taking, and the results of that shift will take a while to show themselves. I would have liked to hear a republican come out a set a game plan that wasn't negative but hey, we live in hope. Going to be an interesting 2 years, I fear however there will be a preservation of the status quo when the US needs most to be retaking a leadership position in the world, Norway as the richest, most innovative countrya nd best place to live just doesnt sit right with me...
You have got to be pulling the piss with that statement HB...especially owing to the fact that he's now reduced us to printing money to buy back our debt,
honestly don't think I need explain to you how that'll play out  >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on November 04, 2010, 08:35:34 AM
Obama inherited an economy in decline, two wars and I think he and his advisors were naive to think they had a"magic wand" to turn things around.......as for what happens now....I don't think the results will allow for any real change.
I don't see any outstanding candidate to lead the country out of this quagmire. As of October 10, 2010, the "Total Public Debt Outstanding" was approximately 94% of annual GDP, ($13.616 Trillion).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 04, 2010, 12:50:47 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 03, 2010, 11:57:19 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 03, 2010, 06:44:55 PM
thought this was a very interesting election, both in tactics from both republican and democrat. The level of desperation from some of the candidates in their approach in the last couple of days, and the result.

As always interpretation of the results are an art despite protestations of their science. And again TO's view above is far from a shocker, and is one shared by millions in the US. One of the most interesting comments I thought was Clinton's (Bill) about the sppeding train. In my view this president is setting the US on a much better path than it has been taking, and the results of that shift will take a while to show themselves. I would have liked to hear a republican come out a set a game plan that wasn't negative but hey, we live in hope. Going to be an interesting 2 years, I fear however there will be a preservation of the status quo when the US needs most to be retaking a leadership position in the world, Norway as the richest, most innovative countrya nd best place to live just doesnt sit right with me...
You have got to be pulling the piss with that statement HB...especially owing to the fact that he's now reduced us to printing money to buy back our debt,
honestly don't think I need explain to you how that'll play out  >:(

The current crisis has its roots in the creation of mortgage-backed securities by Salomon Brothers in the mid-1980s. Wall street slowly got involved (adding sub-prime mortgages) and by 2005 these were to most traded bonds. The Fed increased interest rates but thanks to the lack of regulation banks got around this by offering the first two years at low rates (often 'free' but rolled into the mortgage). This set the time-bomb to start going off in 2007 as new mortgage holders went from as little as 0.03% in year 1 and 2 to 7% and funnily enough sub-prime borrowers couldn't pay.

That was the beginning of a crash bigger than 1929 which took a decade and a world war to get over.

But TO, and the far, right blames Obama after 2 years.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 04, 2010, 05:26:07 PM
Think you might have me confused with the blame Bush for everything crowd here....where did I say Obama was to blame for the bubble bust?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 04, 2010, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 04, 2010, 05:26:07 PM
Think you might have me confused with the blame Bush for everything crowd here....where did I say Obama was to blame for the bubble bust?

Where did I say you blamed him for the bubble bust? You expect him to clear up the mess after 2 years when history suggests it will take a decade.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 04, 2010, 06:41:29 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 03, 2010, 11:57:19 PM
owing to the fact that he's now reduced us to printing money to buy back our debt

You know- I'm pretty sure that's been the case for quite a few years now, not since last January, and even with that are you sure that that approach is a bad one given the state of the world's economy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 18, 2010, 06:02:58 PM
QE explained;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on November 18, 2010, 06:52:50 PM

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/17/medal.of.freedom/index.html?hpt=Sbin


Washington (CNN) -- Former President George H.W. Bush is one of 15 individuals who will receive America's highest civilian honor early next year, the White House announced Wednesday.

Bush will receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which is "presented to individuals who have made especially meritorious contributions to the security or national interests of the United States, to world peace, or to cultural or other significant public or private endeavors," according to a White House statement.

The other recipients of the medal will be: German Chancellor Angela Merkel; Georgia congressman and civil rights leader John Lewis; Natural Resources Defense Council co-founder John Adams; poet Maya Angelou; investor Warren Buffett; artist Jasper Johns; Holocaust survivor Gerda Weissman Klein; humanitarian activist Tom Little, who was killed in Afghanistan; cellist Yo-Yo Ma; civil rights activist Sylvia Mendez; St. Louis Cardinals baseball legend Stan Musial; Boston Celtics NBA legend Bill Russell; non-profit leader and former Ambassador Jean Kennedy Smith; and AFL-CIO chief John Sweeney.

"These outstanding honorees come from a broad range of backgrounds and they've excelled in a broad range of fields, but all of them have lived extraordinary lives that have inspired us, enriched our culture, and made our country and our world a better place," Obama said in the statement. "I look forward to awarding them this honor."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2010, 07:05:12 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on November 18, 2010, 06:52:50 PM

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/17/medal.of.freedom/index.html?hpt=Sbin


Washington (CNN) -- Former President George H.W. Bush is one of 15 individuals who will receive America's highest civilian honor early next year, the White House announced Wednesday.

Bush will receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which is "presented to individuals who have made especially meritorious contributions to the security or national interests of the United States, to world peace, or to cultural or other significant public or private endeavors," according to a White House statement.

The other recipients of the medal will be: German Chancellor Angela Merkel; Georgia congressman and civil rights leader John Lewis; Natural Resources Defense Council co-founder John Adams; poet Maya Angelou; investor Warren Buffett; artist Jasper Johns; Holocaust survivor Gerda Weissman Klein; humanitarian activist Tom Little, who was killed in Afghanistan; cellist Yo-Yo Ma; civil rights activist Sylvia Mendez; St. Louis Cardinals baseball legend Stan Musial; Boston Celtics NBA legend Bill Russell; non-profit leader and former Ambassador Jean Kennedy Smith; and AFL-CIO chief John Sweeney.

"These outstanding honorees come from a broad range of backgrounds and they've excelled in a broad range of fields, but all of them have lived extraordinary lives that have inspired us, enriched our culture, and made our country and our world a better place," Obama said in the statement. "I look forward to awarding them this honor."

I look forward to President Palin giving the award to Former President Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 18, 2010, 08:05:26 PM
QuoteI look forward to President Palin giving the award to Former President Obama.
Not so sure that'll happen Muppet but I must say that Former President Obama has a very attractive ring to it...almost gives me a thrill up my leg  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: crossdoesitbest on November 18, 2010, 09:46:58 PM
[
I look forward to President Palin giving the award to Former President Obama.
[/quote]

Not sure about the President Palin bit! Surely she has more than 1 screw loose, but since nothing else seems to be working maybe we should just embrace the madness!!!! Hell why not, sure maybe the world could be a fun place to be if that nutter was in charge for a while and we could all go bear hunting and putting lipstick on pigs!!!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2010, 09:55:54 PM
Quote from: crossdoesitbest on November 18, 2010, 09:46:58 PM
Quote
I look forward to President Palin giving the award to Former President Obama.

Not sure about the President Palin bit! Surely she has more than 1 screw loose, but since nothing else seems to be working maybe we should just embrace the madness!!!! Hell why not, sure maybe the world could be a fun place to be if that nutter was in charge for a while and we could all go bear hunting and putting lipstick on pigs!!!  ;D

Fás did that for years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 18, 2010, 10:30:01 PM
And anyway, sure the Messiah gets his awards prior to achieving anything
much less taking office 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on November 19, 2010, 02:46:48 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11790558

Billionaire Donald Trump 'may run for US presidency'


US property tycoon Donald Trump has said he is considering running for president in 2012.

In an interview with ABC News, the billionaire Republican said he could "easily" spend more than $200m (£126m) of his own money on his campaign.

"It could be fun because I'd like to see some positive things happen for the country," he said.

He added that he would happily take on former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, who many believe will join the race.

Mr Trump, who stars in the American version of TV show The Apprentice, said he believed that "everybody's ripping America off".

The 64-year-old real estate mogul singled out China, saying that the country was "getting away with murder" by manipulating its currency.

He said he believed the US was being used as a "whipping post".

"The respect for this country is just not there," he said.

'Led by fools'

"I have many people from China that I do business with, they laugh at us. They feel we're fools. And almost being led by fools. And they can't believe what they're getting away with."

In the interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, he added that he would probably make his decision by June.

He was asked about the possibility of challenging Mrs Palin, who ran for vice-president in 2008, for the Republican ticket.

"I would take her on. I like her, but I'd take her on," he said.

Mrs Palin has not formally declared that she will stand, but many commentators have said they believe she will.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 19, 2010, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 18, 2010, 06:02:58 PM
QE explained;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k

or a slightly more neutral opinion in the same styleeeee giving the Fed a bit of a kicking also Fannie and Freddie- may be a wee bit different in terms of what they are proposing...
http://www.youtube.com/v/Q0EC14YP4gA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 19, 2010, 06:02:22 PM
Why California is broke and will undoubtedly remain broke  :'(

LIST OF STATE OF CALIFORNIA AGENCIES:

California Academic Performance Index (API) * California Access for Infants and Mothers * California Acupuncture Board * California Administrative Office of the Courts * California Adoptions Branch * California African American Museum * California Agricultural Export Program * California Agricultural Labor Relations Board * California Agricultural Statistics Service * California Air Resources Board (CARB)
* California Allocation Board * California Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority * California Animal Health and Food Safety Services * California Anti-Terrorism Information Center
* California Apprenticeship Council * California Arbitration Certification Program * California Architects Board * California Area VI Developmental Disabilities Board *  California Arts Council * California Asian Pacific Islander Legislative Caucus * California Assembly Democratic Caucus * California Assembly Republican Caucus * California Athletic Commission * California Attorney General * California Bay Conservation and Development Commission * California Bay-Delta Authority
* California Bay-Delta Office * California Biodiversity Council * California Board for Geologists and Geophysicists * California Board for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors * California Board of Accountancy * California Board of Barbering and Cosmetology * California Board of Behavioral Sciences * California Board of Chiropractic Examiners * California Board of Equalization (BOE) * California Board of Forestry and Fire Protection * California Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind * California Board of Occupational Therapy * California Board of Optometry * California Board of Pharmacy * California Board of Podiatric Medicine * California Board  of Prison Terms * California Board of Psychology * California Board of Registered Nursing * California Board of Trustees * California Board of Vocational Nursing and Psychiatric Technicians * California Braille and Talking Book Library * California Building Standards Commission * California Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education * California Bureau of Automotive Repair * California Bureau of Electronic and Appliance Repair * California Bureau of Home Furnishings and Thermal Insulation * California Bureau of Naturopathic Medicine * California Bureau of Security and Investigative Services * California Bureau of State Audits
* California Business Agency * California Business Investment Services
(CalBIS) * California Business Permit Information (CalGOLD) * California Business Portal * California Business, Transportation and Housing Agency
* California Cal Grants * California CalJOBS * California Cal-Learn Program * California CalVet Home  Loan Program * California Career Resource Network * California Cemetery and Funeral Bureau * California Center for Analytical Chemistry * California Center for Distributed Learning * California Center for Teaching Careers (Teach California) * California Chancellors Office * California Charter Schools * California Children and Families Commission * California Children and Family Services Division * California Citizens Compensation Commission * California Civil Rights Bureau * California Coastal Commission * California Coastal Conservancy * California Code of Regulations * California Collaborative Projects with UC Davis * California Commission for Jobs and Economic Growth * California Commission on Aging * California Commission on Health and Safety and Workers Compensation * California Commission on Judicial Performance * California Commission on State Mandates * California Commission on Status of Women * California Commission on Teacher Credentialing *  California Commission on the Status of Women * California Committee on Dental Auxiliaries * California Community Colleges Chancellors Office, Junior Colleges * California Community Colleges Chancellors Office * California Complaint Mediation Program * California Conservation Corps * California Constitution Revision Commission * California Consumer Hotline * California Consumer Information Center * California Consumer Information
* California Consumer Services Division * California Consumers and Families Agency * California Contractors State License Board * California Corrections Standards Authority * California Council for the Humanities * California Council on Criminal Justice * California Council on Developmental Disabilities * California Court Reporters Board * California Courts of Appeal * California Crime and Violence Prevention Center * California Criminal Justice Statistics Center * California Criminalist Institute Forensic Library * California  CSGnet Network Management * California Cultural and Historical Endowment * California Cultural Resources Division * California Curriculum and Instructional Leadership Branch * California Data Exchange Center * California Data Management Division * California Debt and Investment Advisory Commission
* California Delta Protection Commission * California Democratic Caucus
* California Demographic Research Unit * California Dental Auxiliaries * California Department of Aging * California Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs * California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control Appeals Board * California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control * California Department of Boating and Waterways (Cal Boating) * California Department of Child Support Services (CDCSS) * California Department of Community Services and Development * California Department of Conservation * California Department of Consumer Affairs * California Department of Corporations *  California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation * California Department of Developmental Services * California Department of Education * California Department of Fair Employment and Housing * California Department of Finance * California Department of Financial Institutions * California Department of Fish and Game * California Department of Food and Agriculture * California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CDF) * California Department of General Services * California Department of General Services, Office of State Publishing * California Department of Health Care Services * California Department of Housing and Community Development * California Department of Industrial Relations (DIR) * California Department of Insurance * California Department of Justice Firearms Division * California Department of Justice Opinion Unit * California Department of Justice, Consumer Information, Public Inquiry Unit * California Department of Justice *  California Department of Managed Health Care * California Department of Mental Health * California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) * California Department of Personnel Administration * California Department of Pesticide Regulation * California Department of Public Health * California Department of Real Estate * California Department of Rehabilitation * California Department of Social Services Adoptions Branch * California Department of Social Services * California Department of Technology Services Training Center (DTSTC) * California Department of Technology Services (DTS) * California Department of Toxic Substances Control * California Department of Transportation (Caltrans)
* California Department of Veterans Affairs (CalVets) * California Department of Water Resources * California Departmento de Vehiculos Motorizados * California Digital Library * California Disabled Veteran Business Enterprise Certification Program * California Division of Apprenticeship Standards * California Division of Codes and Standards * California Division of Communicable Disease Control * California Division of Engineering * California Division of Environmental and Occupational Disease Control * California Division of Gambling Control * California Division of Housing Policy Development * California Division of Labor Standards Enforcement * California Division of Labor Statistics and Research * California Division of Land and Right of Way * California Division of Land Resource Protection * California Division of Law Enforcement General Library * California Division of Measurement Standards * California Division of Mines and Geology * California Division of Occupational Safety and Health (Cal/OSHA) * California Division of Oil, Gas and Geothermal Resources * California Division of Planning and Local Assistance * California Division of Recycling * California Division of Safety of Dams * California Division of the State Architect * California Division of Tourism * California Division of Workers Compensation Medical Unit * California Division of Workers Compensation * California Economic Assistance, Business and Community Resources * California Economic Strategy Panel * California Education and Training Agency * California Education Audit Appeals Panel * California Educational Facilities Authority * California Elections Division * California Electricity Oversight Board * California Emergency Management Agency * California Emergency Medical Services Authority * California Employment Development Department (EDD) * California Employment Information State Jobs * California Employment Training Panel
* California Energy Commission * California Environment and Natural Resources Agency * California Environmental Protection Agency (Cal/EPA)
* California Environmental Resources Evaluation System (CERES) * California Executive Office * California Export Laboratory Services * California Exposition and State Fair (Cal Expo) * California Fair Political Practices Commission * California Fairs and Expositions Division * California Film Commission * California Fire and Resource Assessment Program * California Firearms Division * California Fiscal Services * California Fish and Game Commission * California Fisheries Program Branch * California Floodplain Management * California Foster Youth Help * California Franchise Tax Board (FTB) * California Fraud Division * California Gambling Control Commission * California Geographic Information Systems Council (GIS) * California Geological Survey * California Government Claims and Victim Compensation Board * California Governors Committee for Employment of Disabled Persons * California Governors Mentoring Partnership * California Governors Office of Emergency Services * California Governors Office of Homeland Security
* California Governors Office of Planning and Research * California Governors Office * California Grant and Enterprise Zone Programs HCD Loan * California Health and Human Services Agency * California Health and Safety Agency * California Healthy Families Program * California Hearing Aid Dispensers Bureau * California High-Speed Rail Authority * California Highway Pat rol (CHP) * California History and Culture Agency
*wait..there's more, they wouldn't fit on one post

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 19, 2010, 06:05:07 PM
* California Horse Racing Board * California Housing Finance Agency * California Indoor Air Quality Program * California Industrial Development Financing Advisory Commission * California Industrial Welfare Commission * California InFoPeople * California Information Center for the Environment * California Infrastructure and Economic Development Bank (I-Bank) * California Inspection Services * California Institute for County Government * California Institute for Education Reform * California Integrated Waste Management Board * California Interagency Ecological Program * California Job Service * California Junta Estatal de Personal * California Labor and Employment Agency * California Labor and Workforce Development Agency * California Labor Market Information Division * California Land Use Planning Information Network (LUPIN) * California Lands Commission * California Landscape Architects Technical Committee * California Latino Legislative Caucus * California Law Enforcement Branch * California Law Enforcement General Library * California Law Revision Commission * California Legislative Analyst's Office * California Legislative Black Caucus * California Legislative Counsel * California Legislative Division * California Legislative Information * California Legislative Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender (LGBT) Caucus * California Legislature Internet Caucus * California Library De velopment Services * California License and Revenue Branch * California Major Risk Medical Insurance Program * California Managed Risk Medical Insurance Board * California  Maritime Academy * California Marketing Services * California Measurement Standards * California Medical Assistance Commission * California Medical Care Services * California Military Department * California Mining and Geology Board * California Museum for History, Women, and the Arts * California Museum Resource Center * California National Guard * California Native American Heritage Commission * California Natural Community Conservation Planning Program * California New Motor Vehicle Board * California Nursing Home Administrator Program * California Occupational Safety and Health Appeals Board * California Occupational Safety and Health Standards Board * California Ocean Resources Management Program * California Office of Administrative Hearings * California Office of Administrative Law * California Office of AIDS * California Office of Binational Border Health * California Office of Child Abuse Prevention * California Office of Deaf Access *  California Office of Emergency Services (OES) * California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment * California Office of Fiscal Services * California Office of Fleet Administration * California Office of Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Implementation
(CalOHI) * California Office of Historic Preservation * California Office of Homeland Security * California Office of Human Resources * California Office of Legal Services * California Office of Legislation * California Office of Lieutenant Governor * California Office of Military and Aerospace Support * California Office of Mine Reclamation * California Office of Natural Resource Education * California Office of Privacy Protection * California Office of Public School Construction * California Office of Real Estate Appraisers * California Office of Risk and Insurance Management * California Office of Services to the Blind * California Office of Spill Prevention and  Response * California Office of State Publishing (OSP) * California Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development * California Office of Systems Integration * California Office of the Inspector General * California Office of the Ombudsman * California Office of the Pat ient Advocate * California Office of the President * California Office of the Secretary for Education * California Office of the State Fire Marshal * California Office of the State Public Defender * California Office of Traffic Safety * California Office of Vital Records * California Online Directory * California Operations Control Office * California Opinion Unit * California Outreach and Technical Assistance Network (OTAN) * California Park and Recreation Commission * California Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) * California Performance Review (CPR) * California Permit Information for Business (CalGOLD) * California Physical Therapy Board * California Physician Assistant  Committee * California Plant Health and Pest Prevention Services * California Policy and Evaluation Division * California Political Reform Division * California Pollution Control Financing Authority * California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo * California Postsecondary Education Commission * California Prevention Services * California Primary Care and Family Health * California Prison Industry Authority * California Procurement Division * California Public Employees Retirement System (CalPERS) * California Public Employment Relations Board (PERB) * California Public Utilities Commission (PUC) * California Real Estate Services Division * California Refugee Programs Branch * California Regional Water Quality Control Boards * California Registered Veterinary Technician Committee * California Registrar of Charitable Trusts * California Republican Caucus * California Research and Development Division * California Research Bureau *  California Resources Agency * California Respiratory Care Board * California Rivers Assessment * California Rural Health Policy Council * California Safe Schools * California San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission * California San Gabriel and Lower Los Angeles Rivers and Mountains Conservancy * California San Joaquin River Conservancy * California School to Career * California Science Center * California Scripps Institution of Oceanography * California Secretary of State Business Portal * California Secretary of State * California Seismic Safety Commission * California Self Insurance Plans (SIP) * California Senate Office of Research * California Small Business and Disabled Veteran Business Enterprise Certification Program * California Small Business Development Center Program * California Smart Growth Caucus * California Smog Check Information Center * California Spatial Information Library * California Special Education Division *  California Speech-Language Pat hology and Audiology Board * California Standardized Testing and Reporting (STAR) * California Standards and Assessment Division * California State Administrative Manual (SAM) * California State Allocation Board * California State and Consumer Services Agency * California State Architect * California State Archives * California State Assembly * California State Association of Counties (CSAC) * California State Board of Education * California State Board of Food and Agriculture *California Office of the Chief Information Officer (OCIO) * California State Children's Trust Fund * California State Compensation Insurance Fund * California State Contracts Register Program * California State Contracts Register * California State Controller * California State Council on Developmental Disabilities (SCDD) * California State Disability Insurance (SDI) * California State Fair (Cal Expo) * California State Jobs Employment Information *  California State Lands Commission * California State Legislative Portal * California State Legislature * California State Library Catalog * California State Library Services Bureau * California State Library * California State Lottery * California State Mediation and Conciliation Service * California State Mining and Geology Board * California State Park and Recreation Commission * California State Parks * California State Personnel Board * California State Polytechnic University, Pomona * California State Railroad Museum * California State Science Fair * California State Senate * California State Summer School for Mathematics and Science (COSMOS) * California State Summer School for the Arts * California State Superintendent of Public Instruction * California State Teachers Retirement System (CalSTRS) * California State Treasurer * California State University Center for Distributed Learning * California State University, Bakersfield *  California State University, Channel Islands * California State University, Chico * California State University, Dominguez Hills * California State University, East Bay * California State University, Fresno * California State University, Fullerton * California State University, Long Beach * California State University, Los Angeles * California State University, Monterey Bay * California State University, Northridge * California State University, Sacramento * California State University, San Bernardino * California State University, San Marcos * California State University, Stanislaus * California State University (CSU) * California State Water Project Analysis Office * California State Water Project * California State Water Resources Control Board * California Structural Pest Control Board
* California Student Aid Commission * California Superintendent of Public Instruction * California Superior Courts * California Tahoe Conservancy * California  Task Force on Culturally and Linguistically Competent Physicians and Dentists * California Tax Information Center * California Technology and Administration Branch Finance * California Telecommunications Division * California Telephone Medical Advice Services (TAMS) * California Transportation Commission * California Travel and Transportation Agency * California Unclaimed Property Program
* California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board * California Unemployment Insurance Program * California Uniform Construction Cost Accounting Commission * California Veterans Board * California Veterans Memorial * California Veterinary Medical Board and Registered Veterinary Technician Examining Committee * California Veterinary Medical Board * California Victim Compensation and Government Claims Board * California Volunteers * California Voter Registration * California Water Commission
* California Water Environment Association (COWPEA) * California Water Resources  Control Board * California Welfare to Work Division * California Wetlands Information System * California Wildlife and Habitat Data Analysis Branch * California Wildlife Conservation Board * California Wildlife Programs Branch * California Work Opportunity and Responsibility to Kids (CalWORKs) * California Workers Compensation Appeals Board * California Workforce and Labor Development Agency * California Workforce Investment Board * California Youth Authority (CYA)
* Central Valley Flood Protection Board * Center for California Studies
* Colorado River Board of California * Counting California * Dental Board of California * Health Insurance Plan of California (PacAdvantage)
* Humboldt State University * Jobs with the State of California * Judicial Council of California * Learn California * Library of California * Lieutenant Governors Commission for One California * Little Hoover Commission (on California State Government Organization and Economy) *  Medical Board of California * Medi-Cal * Osteopathic Medical Board of California * Physical Therapy Board of California * Regents of the University of California * San Diego State University * San Francisco State University * San Jose State University * Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy * State Bar of California * Supreme Court of California * Teach California * University of California * University of California, Berkeley * University of California, Davis * University of California, Hastings College of the Law * University of California, Irvine * University of California, Los Angeles * University of California, Merced * University of California, Riverside * University of California, San Diego * University of California, San Francisco * University of California, Santa Barbara * University of California, Santa Cruz * Veterans Home of California

This and all the pensions that go along with them!! Any questions????

1/3 of all state taxes collected in 2009 went to the payment of pensions!

Yep big Government...that's the answer  ::) ...It will only get worse!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 19, 2010, 06:58:29 PM
On the flip side of the above, which is genuinely mazing, at the top of Japan's housing boom there was a palace valued at more than the entire State of California. Japan needed more Government at that time.

Extremes are not the answer. They create extreme problems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 19, 2010, 07:51:14 PM
TO. Do you think all agencies on that list should be cut? Can you break it down for me as to which you might keep if any?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 19, 2010, 07:51:33 PM
It must all be OK though as the same career long political hacks keep getting re-elected
Then we wonder why the unemployment rate is around 17% here...
What was it Einstein said about insanity.... ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 19, 2010, 08:09:21 PM
i'm surprised no one has mentioned this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11781642
Lisa Murkowski defeats Tea Party to win Senate race

If it was brought to Ireland, I'm afraid they would elect Dustin the Turkey!  Easy to spell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 25, 2010, 08:33:08 AM
Another Good old boy and mate of GWB
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2010/11/24/delay_judge_think_about_thanks.html?cxntcid=breaking_news (http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2010/11/24/delay_judge_think_about_thanks.html?cxntcid=breaking_news)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2010, 02:24:37 PM
Sarah Palin wrong foots everyone!  :o

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-palin/8159304/Sarah-Palin-weve-got-to-stand-with-our-North-Korean-allies.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-palin/8159304/Sarah-Palin-weve-got-to-stand-with-our-North-Korean-allies.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 25, 2010, 04:41:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2010, 02:24:37 PM
Sarah Palin wrong foots everyone!  :o

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-palin/8159304/Sarah-Palin-weve-got-to-stand-with-our-North-Korean-allies.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-palin/8159304/Sarah-Palin-weve-got-to-stand-with-our-North-Korean-allies.html)

Wow...what an absolute fecking Eejit ....can you imagine if she were President and said something like that :o
Oh wait.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4gFdKuMYL8&feature=related
:D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 25, 2010, 04:43:45 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 25, 2010, 08:33:08 AM
Another Good old boy and mate of GWB
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2010/11/24/delay_judge_think_about_thanks.html?cxntcid=breaking_news (http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2010/11/24/delay_judge_think_about_thanks.html?cxntcid=breaking_news)
Did you miss the news last week on Charlie sc**bag Rangle Declan..or do somethings just never change around here ::)
But then again Rangle is Democrat so he gets a slap on the wrist and that's alright.
Just curious... how do you get away with pleading ignorance to a tax evasion law that you help write and over see  :D
ye couldn't make this shit up

Wonder will the donation's contributed to get Reid, Boxer, Frank etc re-elected be investigated or perhaps the Money trail to get Obama
in to office might need looked into...but that's right, the Center for American progress, Acorn, the Tides foundation all funded by George Soros
and who could forget the Union elite at SEIU to name but a few, is the smoke and mirrors required to be sure that never happens..
No nothing biased here Declan ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 27, 2010, 02:00:41 AM
What a shocker  ::)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/26/acorn-workers-convicted-admitted-guilt-election-fraud/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Internal+-+Politics+-+Text%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

*Declan apparently missed this story also
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 27, 2010, 09:25:39 AM
QuoteNo nothing biased here Declan

Correct the Gop and Dems are as corrupt as each other. Two sides of the same coin so to speak.

I see the second link you put up TO is from FoxNews - that URL is blocked on my PC ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 27, 2010, 03:30:21 PM
QuoteI see the second link you put up TO is from FoxNews - that URL is blocked on my PC ;) ;)
That would explain the ignorance then so...I tried MSNBC but i guess they didn't find something like this newsworthy  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 27, 2010, 03:32:31 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_us/us_portland_car_bomb_plot

Religion of Peace at it again  >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 01, 2010, 06:20:13 PM
Chinese wikipedia leaks:
From
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/01/opinion/01friedman.html?src=me&ref=general


QuoteWhile secrets from WikiLeaks were splashed all over the American newspapers, I couldn't help but wonder: What if China had a WikiLeaker and we could see what its embassy in Washington was reporting about America? I suspect the cable would read like this:




Josh Haner/The New York Times
Thomas L. Friedman
Washington Embassy, People's Republic of China, to Ministry of Foreign Affairs Beijing, TOP SECRET/Subject: America today.

Things are going well here for China. America remains a deeply politically polarized country, which is certainly helpful for our goal of overtaking the U.S. as the world's most powerful economy and nation. But we're particularly optimistic because the Americans are polarized over all the wrong things.

There is a willful self-destructiveness in the air here as if America has all the time and money in the world for petty politics. They fight over things like — we are not making this up — how and where an airport security officer can touch them. They are fighting — we are happy to report — over the latest nuclear arms reduction treaty with Russia. It seems as if the Republicans are so interested in weakening President Obama that they are going to scuttle a treaty that would have fostered closer U.S.-Russian cooperation on issues like Iran. And since anything that brings Russia and America closer could end up isolating us, we are grateful to Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona for putting our interests ahead of America's and blocking Senate ratification of the treaty. The ambassador has invited Senator Kyl and his wife for dinner at Mr. Kao's Chinese restaurant to praise him for his steadfastness in protecting America's (read: our) interests.

Americans just had what they call an "election." Best we could tell it involved one congressman trying to raise more money than the other (all from businesses they are supposed to be regulating) so he could tell bigger lies on TV more often about the other guy before the other guy could do it to him. This leaves us relieved. It means America will do nothing serious to fix its structural problems: a ballooning deficit, declining educational performance, crumbling infrastructure and diminished immigration of new talent.

The ambassador recently took what the Americans call a fast train — the Acela — from Washington to New York City. Our bullet train from Beijing to Tianjin would have made the trip in 90 minutes. His took three hours — and it was on time! Along the way the ambassador used his cellphone to call his embassy office, and in one hour he experienced 12 dropped calls — again, we are not making this up. We have a joke in the embassy: "When someone calls you from China today it sounds like they are next door. And when someone calls you from next door in America, it sounds like they are calling from China!" Those of us who worked in China's embassy in Zambia often note that Africa's cellphone service was better than America's.

But the Americans are oblivious. They travel abroad so rarely that they don't see how far they are falling behind. Which is why we at the embassy find it funny that Americans are now fighting over how "exceptional" they are. Once again, we are not making this up. On the front page of The Washington Post on Monday there was an article noting that Republicans Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee are denouncing Obama for denying "American exceptionalism." The Americans have replaced working to be exceptional with talking about how exceptional they still are. They don't seem to understand that you can't declare yourself "exceptional," only others can bestow that adjective upon you.

In foreign policy, we see no chance of Obama extricating U.S. forces from Afghanistan. He knows the Republicans will call him a wimp if he does, so America will keep hemorrhaging $190 million a day there. Therefore, America will lack the military means to challenge us anywhere else, particularly on North Korea, where our lunatic friends continue to yank America's chain every six months so that the Americans have to come and beg us to calm things down. By the time the Americans do get out of Afghanistan, the Afghans will surely hate them so much that China's mining companies already operating there should be able to buy up the rest of Afghanistan's rare minerals.

Most of the Republicans just elected to Congress do not believe what their scientists tell them about man-made climate change. America's politicians are mostly lawyers — not engineers or scientists like ours — so they'll just say crazy things about science and nobody calls them on it. It's good. It means they will not support any bill to spur clean energy innovation, which is central to our next five-year plan. And this ensures that our efforts to dominate the wind, solar, nuclear and electric car industries will not be challenged by America.

Finally, record numbers of U.S. high school students are now studying Chinese, which should guarantee us a steady supply of cheap labor that speaks our language here, as we use our $2.3 trillion in reserves to quietly buy up U.S. factories. In sum, things are going well for China in America.

Thank goodness the Americans can't read our diplomatic cables.

Embassy Washington.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on December 01, 2010, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 27, 2010, 03:32:31 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_us/us_portland_car_bomb_plot

Religion of Peace at it again  >:(

Good job by the FBI in scaring the shite out of people, they could have had this kid locked up months ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on December 01, 2010, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 27, 2010, 03:32:31 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_us/us_portland_car_bomb_plot

Religion of Peace at it again  >:(

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december132008/bill_hakim_12-13-08.php

We also have Christian 'conservatives' up in Oregon who need watched.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on December 02, 2010, 02:29:11 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on December 01, 2010, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 27, 2010, 03:32:31 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_us/us_portland_car_bomb_plot

Religion of Peace at it again  >:(

Good job by the FBI in scaring the shite out of people, they could have had this kid locked up months ago.
Under what grounds  ???... the ACLU or our inept AG Holder would have had field day ::)
Are you really that stupid or is it simply sheer ignorance :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on December 02, 2010, 03:50:44 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on December 01, 2010, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 27, 2010, 03:32:31 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_us/us_portland_car_bomb_plot

Religion of Peace at it again  >:(

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december132008/bill_hakim_12-13-08.php

We also have Christian 'conservatives' up in Oregon who need watched.
Pray tell you're not comparing a botched bank Robbery with a Muslim terrorist going after collateral damage
of what could only be young families at a Christmas tree lighting ceremony...and all in the name of Allah  ::)
* but while you're at it...please do explain the Christian 'Conservative' slant to you going back to '08 to find this story ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on December 19, 2010, 02:25:08 AM
Phew...After November I think the Country may be turning a corner  ;D
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1210/46573.html#comments
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 19, 2010, 06:10:19 PM
turning the corner and heading the wrong way...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 19, 2010, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on December 19, 2010, 02:25:08 AM
Phew...After November I think the Country may be turning a corner  ;D
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1210/46573.html#comments

So, an immigrant to the US lauds the blocking of the reformation of US immigration legislation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on December 19, 2010, 06:34:04 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 19, 2010, 06:10:19 PM
turning the corner and heading the wrong way...
So you've been happy enough then so  :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 19, 2010, 08:01:23 PM
I would have preferred to see that act passed, was very disappointed to see the tax bill go through this week. Very interested to see if the overhaul of the tax system will ever happen, I think its one of the biggest impediments to the US economy as it stands.
Even W's "
QuotePresident's Advisory Panel for Federal Tax Reform criticized the tax system as being extremely complex, requiring detailed record-keeping, lengthy instructions, and complicated schedules, worksheets, and forms. They stated that it penalizes work, discourages saving and investment, and hinders the competitiveness of American business. The tax code is commonly riddled with provisions that treat similarly situated taxpayers differently and create perceptions of unfairness.The panel's major reform push was for the removal of the Alternative Minimum Tax, which is not indexed for inflation."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on December 19, 2010, 11:12:55 PM
ABUJA (Reuters) - Nigeria's anti-corruption agency said on Friday it had dropped bribery charges against former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney and oil services company Halliburton after the company agreed to pay a fine.

"It was formally dropped today," Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) spokesman Femi Babafemi said. He said the Nigerian government had agreed to an offer made by Halliburton to pay fines totaling up to $250 million.

Halliburton, which has said the Nigerian charges have no legal basis, confirmed that they were dropped but declined additional comment.

The EFCC said it received the offer when it met with officials representing Cheney and Halliburton in London last week after filing 16-count charges at a federal high court in Abuja in a case dating back to the mid-1990s.

Cheney served as U.S. vice president under George W. Bush from 2001 to 2009.

Houston-based engineering firm KBR, a former Halliburton unit, pleaded guilty last year to U.S. charges that it paid $180 million in bribes between 1994 and 2004 to Nigerian officials to secure $6 billion in contracts for the Bonny Island liquefied natural gas (LNG) project in the Niger Delta.

KBR and Halliburton reached a $579 million settlement in the United States. But Nigeria, France and Switzerland have conducted their own investigations into the case.

The EFCC last week charged Halliburton Chief Executive David Lesar, Cheney, and two other executives. It also filed charges against Halliburton as a company, which was headed by Cheney during the 1990s, and four associated businesses.

Halliburton split from KBR in 2007. It has said that its current operations in Nigeria -- raided by the EFCC last month -- were not involved in the Bonny project and that there is no legal basis for the charges.

Babafemi said although the investigation into Halliburton was over, the EFCC was still pursuing a case against a number of Nigerians who it says accepted bribes from the U.S. firm.

Shares of Halliburton fell 31 cents, or less than 1 percent, to $39.96 in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on December 20, 2010, 11:59:46 AM
The US House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the $725 billion military appropriations bill for 2011, by far the largest single military spending bill in the history of mankind.

The 341-48 vote saw vast majorities of both parties supporting it, and was referred to by officials as a "stripped down" version, despite its impossibly large pricetag. In addition to its budget busting expense, the bill also solidified the ban on closing the detention center at Guantanamo Bay.

The bill now moves on to the lame duck Senate, where it is expected to face at least some resistance around the Gitmo ban and a scramble to even have a vote in the waning days before it goes into recess.

Some officials expressed disappointment with the $725 billion in spending, not because it was so much, but because it actually didn't include every major expense people were hoping to shoehorn into it. In that regard, it seems the Obama Administration may be facing the prospect of an "emergency" appropriation bill at some point next year that will push the already record bill even closer to a trillion dollars.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on December 22, 2010, 09:07:52 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on December 02, 2010, 03:50:44 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on December 01, 2010, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 27, 2010, 03:32:31 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_us/us_portland_car_bomb_plot

Religion of Peace at it again  >:(

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december132008/bill_hakim_12-13-08.php

We also have Christian 'conservatives' up in Oregon who need watched.
Pray tell you're not comparing a botched bank Robbery with a Muslim terrorist going after collateral damage
of what could only be young families at a Christmas tree lighting ceremony...and all in the name of Allah  ::)
* but while you're at it...please do explain the Christian 'Conservative' slant to you going back to '08 to find this story ???

The 'tea-bag terrorists' got the death penalty anyways.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2010/12/post_7.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on February 13, 2011, 10:44:31 PM
God forgive me for bumping this thread up after what went on in the other thread earlier but I was just wondering what people thought of Senator Ron Paul. He seems to be more popular now than ever but is he just telling people what they want to hear.

He wants to abolish the Fed, pull america out of other countries and stop "empire building" (his words) and go for smaller government. He goes against the Republican grain pretty much and seems to be quite consistent as a very strictly constitutional Republican. He said he wanted the USA to spread democracy by "setting a good example instead of using force".

Negatives about him, he's quite old (75) if he wants to run for president. He features on the Alex Jones shows which means he's in such glittering company as David Icke. He also hasn't even decided if he will run for president yet.

Donald Trump recently said at CPAC that Ron Paul will never win a presidential election, make of that what you may.

It just seems to me that the hype starting to build up around him is starting to seem quite familiar to that which we had 4 years ago.

His speech at CPAC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BWEBXKOkaI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on February 14, 2011, 11:53:53 AM
Ron Paul is a congressman, not a senator. It's his son Rand who is the senator.

He's a kook. No serious economist advocates a return to the gold standard which would lead to unemployment levels of Depression proportions as wages never adjust downwards to reflect the throttling of the money supply. Still, he is a very honest kook. No one can be under any illusions about what a vote for Ron Paul means, in contrast to mainstream politicians who talk about cutting public spending and reducing taxes without affecting the quality of services.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 06:00:22 PM
 

THE RESULTS FOR OBAMA'S CASH FOR CLUNKERS DISASTER;

The person who calculated this bit of information has been a professor at The University of West Virginia in Morgantown,  West Virginia for the last forty some years.

A clunker that travels  12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of gas a year.
A vehicle  that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons of gas a  year.
So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce gasoline  consumption by 320 gallons per year.
The government claims 700,000 clunkers  have been replaced so that's 224 million gallons saved per year.
That  equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.  5 million barrels is  about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
More importantly, 5 million barrels  of oil at $70 per barrel costs about $350 million dollars.
So, the  government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350 million.
We  spent $8.57 for every $1.00 we saved.

How do ye like them apples?

I'm pretty sure they'll  do a better job with our health care though......  ::)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 22, 2011, 06:16:25 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 06:00:22 PM


THE RESULTS FOR OBAMA'S CASH FOR CLUNKERS DISASTER;

The person who calculated this bit of information has been a professor at The University of West Virginia in Morgantown,  West Virginia for the last forty some years.

A clunker that travels  12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of gas a year.
A vehicle  that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons of gas a  year.
So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce gasoline  consumption by 320 gallons per year.
The government claims 700,000 clunkers  have been replaced so that's 224 million gallons saved per year.
That  equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.  5 million barrels is  about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
More importantly, 5 million barrels  of oil at $70 per barrel costs about $350 million dollars.
So, the  government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350 million.
We  spent $8.57 for every $1.00 we saved.

How do ye like them apples?

I'm pretty sure they'll  do a better job with our health care though......  ::)

Only 25mpg?
Oil is over $100 a barrel now and of course gas/petrol costs a hell of a lot more at the pump after refining.
Then there is the (idiotic) carbon credits to be added.

Might be better spending the money giving that professor an education.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 22, 2011, 06:16:25 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 06:00:22 PM


THE RESULTS FOR OBAMA'S CASH FOR CLUNKERS DISASTER;

The person who calculated this bit of information has been a professor at The University of West Virginia in Morgantown,  West Virginia for the last forty some years.

A clunker that travels  12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of gas a year.
A vehicle  that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons of gas a  year.
So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce gasoline  consumption by 320 gallons per year.
The government claims 700,000 clunkers  have been replaced so that's 224 million gallons saved per year.
That  equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.  5 million barrels is  about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
More importantly, 5 million barrels  of oil at $70 per barrel costs about $350 million dollars.
So, the  government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350 million.
We  spent $8.57 for every $1.00 we saved.

How do ye like them apples?

I'm pretty sure they'll  do a better job with our health care though......  ::)

Only 25mpg?
Oil is over $100 a barrel now and of course gas/petrol costs a hell of a lot more at the pump after refining.
Then there is the (idiotic) carbon credits to be added.

Might be better spending the money giving that professor an education.
The dollar signs littered through out that post obviously went
clear out over your head there muppet  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 22, 2011, 07:15:53 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 22, 2011, 06:16:25 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 06:00:22 PM


THE RESULTS FOR OBAMA'S CASH FOR CLUNKERS DISASTER;

The person who calculated this bit of information has been a professor at The University of West Virginia in Morgantown,  West Virginia for the last forty some years.

A clunker that travels  12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of gas a year.
A vehicle  that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons of gas a  year.
So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce gasoline  consumption by 320 gallons per year.
The government claims 700,000 clunkers  have been replaced so that's 224 million gallons saved per year.
That  equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.  5 million barrels is  about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
More importantly, 5 million barrels  of oil at $70 per barrel costs about $350 million dollars.
So, the  government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350 million.
We  spent $8.57 for every $1.00 we saved.

How do ye like them apples?

I'm pretty sure they'll  do a better job with our health care though......  ::)

Only 25mpg?
Oil is over $100 a barrel now and of course gas/petrol costs a hell of a lot more at the pump after refining.
Then there is the (idiotic) carbon credits to be added.

Might be better spending the money giving that professor an education.
The dollar signs littered through out that post obviously went
clear out over your head there muppet  ;)

That post is even funnier with your signature under it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:30:04 PM
1) 25mpg is industry standard here
2) ok so we'll go with the barrell of oil at $100
That's 500 million saved instead of 350 million...WOW  :D
Its still 3 billion spent to save 500 million..right muppet?
3) what has the price of gas at the pump have to do with this idiocy
Of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on February 22, 2011, 07:39:05 PM
Is it cos he's black? :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 22, 2011, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:30:04 PM
1) 25mpg is industry standard here
2) ok so we'll go with the barrell of oil at $100
That's 500 million saved instead of 350 million...WOW  :D
Its still 3 billion spent to save 500 million..right muppet?
3) what has the price of gas at the pump have to do with this idiocy
Of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ???

Because you calculated the total based on the price of oil. No one uses oil. It must be refined first and that costs money therefore the savings are higher again.

As for 25mpg being industry standard, was that the objective? Merely the most inefficient industry standard in the western world? They could have aimed higher.

I don't know anything about Obama's 'clunkers scheme', in fact I never heard of it till I read your post but I can see holes in the figures and that suggests to me someone is telling porkies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 22, 2011, 08:12:04 PM
So whilst I agree with the sentiment from TO that it was a complete nonsense program- the numbers are out...

today's price of gas, 3.14 per g
280m * 3.14= 0.879B USD saved, and only 2.77Bn spent (there's a phrase I like- only 2.77BN)
so closer to 3:1 still not what they would call awesome...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 22, 2011, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:30:04 PM
1) 25mpg is industry standard here
2) ok so we'll go with the barrell of oil at $100
That's 500 million saved instead of 350 million...WOW  :D
Its still 3 billion spent to save 500 million..right muppet?
3) what has the price of gas at the pump have to do with this idiocy
Of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ???

Because you calculated the total based on the price of oil. No one uses oil. It must be refined first and that costs money therefore the savings are higher again.

As for 25mpg being industry standard, was that the objective? Merely the most inefficient industry standard in the western world? They could have aimed higher.

I don't know anything about Obama's 'clunkers scheme', in fact I never heard of it till I read your post but I can see holes in the figures and that suggests to me someone is telling porkies.
Sorry not buying that...you were simply caught out trying to be a smart ass
Yet again with limited knowledge of the point being made!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 08:49:23 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 22, 2011, 08:12:04 PM
So whilst I agree with the sentiment from TO that it was a complete nonsense program- the numbers are out...

today's price of gas, 3.14 per g
280m * 3.14= 0.879B USD saved, and only 2.77Bn spent (there's a phrase I like- only 2.77BN)
so closer to 3:1 still not what they would call awesome...
Simply put HB, numbers that only the federal government could
Try to hood wink...certainly wouldn't work in my or your office today >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on February 23, 2011, 12:25:48 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 06:00:22 PM


THE RESULTS FOR OBAMA'S CASH FOR CLUNKERS DISASTER;

The person who calculated this bit of information has been a professor at The University of West Virginia in Morgantown,  West Virginia for the last forty some years.

A clunker that travels  12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of gas a year.
A vehicle  that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons of gas a  year.
So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce gasoline  consumption by 320 gallons per year.
The government claims 700,000 clunkers  have been replaced so that's 224 million gallons saved per year.
That  equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.  5 million barrels is  about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
More importantly, 5 million barrels  of oil at $70 per barrel costs about $350 million dollars.
So, the  government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350 million.
We  spent $8.57 for every $1.00 we saved.

How do ye like them apples?

I'm pretty sure they'll  do a better job with our health care though......  ::)

Whatever about the figures on gas prices, was the program not intended more to stimulate the auto industry?
The 3 billion versus 350 millions comparison makes no sense. The payout was by the government, the 'saving' was not 'us' it would have been the end users of the new vehicles.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on February 23, 2011, 01:38:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 22, 2011, 08:12:04 PM
So whilst I agree with the sentiment from TO that it was a complete nonsense program- the numbers are out...

today's price of gas, 3.14 per g
280m * 3.14= 0.879B USD saved, and only 2.77Bn spent (there's a phrase I like- only 2.77BN)
so closer to 3:1 still not what they would call awesome...

So it will take 3 years for the programme to pay for itself. Is that your point?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 23, 2011, 02:07:30 PM
the savings on gas to the customer over the course of three years more or less is the same of the cost of the program to the tax payer.

The point of the program was stimulus to the auto industry and reduction of pollution from the clunkers apparently. It was a reasonably good idea IMHO- however the execution of the program in the form that made it into law was a disgrace...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2011, 02:41:21 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 22, 2011, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:30:04 PM
1) 25mpg is industry standard here
2) ok so we'll go with the barrell of oil at $100
That's 500 million saved instead of 350 million...WOW  :D
Its still 3 billion spent to save 500 million..right muppet?
3) what has the price of gas at the pump have to do with this idiocy
Of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ???

Because you calculated the total based on the price of oil. No one uses oil. It must be refined first and that costs money therefore the savings are higher again.

As for 25mpg being industry standard, was that the objective? Merely the most inefficient industry standard in the western world? They could have aimed higher.

I don't know anything about Obama's 'clunkers scheme', in fact I never heard of it till I read your post but I can see holes in the figures and that suggests to me someone is telling porkies.
Sorry not buying that...you were simply caught out trying to be a smart ass
Yet again with limited knowledge of the point being made!

I have stated that until I read your post I had no knowledge of the point being made. However I could still punch holes in your professors figures while knowing nothing about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 03:53:05 PM
QuoteWhatever about the figures on gas prices, was the program not intended more to stimulate the auto industry
The only auto industry stimulated was the Japanese industry  ::)
Obama didn't have the cop on to limit the plan to American made cars  :-[
QuoteThe 3 billion versus 350 millions comparison makes no sense. The payout was by the government, the 'saving' was not 'us' it would have been the end users of the new vehicles
*shakes head
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 23, 2011, 01:38:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 22, 2011, 08:12:04 PM
So whilst I agree with the sentiment from TO that it was a complete nonsense program- the numbers are out...

today's price of gas, 3.14 per g
280m * 3.14= 0.879B USD saved, and only 2.77Bn spent (there's a phrase I like- only 2.77BN)
so closer to 3:1 still not what they would call awesome...

So it will take 3 years for the programme to pay for itself. Is that your point?
When have you ever known a government programme to pay for itself ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 04:00:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2011, 02:41:21 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 22, 2011, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:30:04 PM
1) 25mpg is industry standard here
2) ok so we'll go with the barrell of oil at $100
That's 500 million saved instead of 350 million...WOW  :D
Its still 3 billion spent to save 500 million..right muppet?
3) what has the price of gas at the pump have to do with this idiocy
Of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ???

Because you calculated the total based on the price of oil. No one uses oil. It must be refined first and that costs money therefore the savings are higher again.

As for 25mpg being industry standard, was that the objective? Merely the most inefficient industry standard in the western world? They could have aimed higher.

I don't know anything about Obama's 'clunkers scheme', in fact I never heard of it till I read your post but I can see holes in the figures and that suggests to me someone is telling porkies.
Sorry not buying that...you were simply caught out trying to be a smart ass
Yet again with limited knowledge of the point being made!

I have stated that until I read your post I had no knowledge of the point being made. However I could still punch holes in your professors figures while knowing nothing about it.
Case in point...you don't need to be stuck in every post pretending to know all about everything...you've no business coming at me in an effort to educate me
on a subject you admittedly know nothing about  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2011, 04:05:09 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 04:00:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2011, 02:41:21 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 22, 2011, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:30:04 PM
1) 25mpg is industry standard here
2) ok so we'll go with the barrell of oil at $100
That's 500 million saved instead of 350 million...WOW  :D
Its still 3 billion spent to save 500 million..right muppet?
3) what has the price of gas at the pump have to do with this idiocy
Of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ???

Because you calculated the total based on the price of oil. No one uses oil. It must be refined first and that costs money therefore the savings are higher again.

As for 25mpg being industry standard, was that the objective? Merely the most inefficient industry standard in the western world? They could have aimed higher.

I don't know anything about Obama's 'clunkers scheme', in fact I never heard of it till I read your post but I can see holes in the figures and that suggests to me someone is telling porkies.
Sorry not buying that...you were simply caught out trying to be a smart ass
Yet again with limited knowledge of the point being made!

I have stated that until I read your post I had no knowledge of the point being made. However I could still punch holes in your professors figures while knowing nothing about it.
Case in point...you don't need to be stuck in every post pretending to know all about everything...you've no business coming at me in an effort to educate me
on a subject you admittedly know nothing about  8)

You put up figures on a public website to pursue your usual agenda. I am as entitled as anyone else to point out the holes in them.

As usual you hide behind straw man arguments.

Fear not those who argue but those who dodge  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 23, 2011, 04:46:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 03:53:05 PM
QuoteWhatever about the figures on gas prices, was the program not intended more to stimulate the auto industry
The only auto industry stimulated was the Japanese industry  ::)
Obama didn't have the cop on to limit the plan to American made cars  :-[
QuoteThe 3 billion versus 350 millions comparison makes no sense. The payout was by the government, the 'saving' was not 'us' it would have been the end users of the new vehicles
*shakes head

:D :D :D :D

correcto, the japanese made out like bandits, the Prez didnt even have the wit to stop senior executives from getting their fat bonus checks when he handed out billions in bailout money, and they thought Bush wasnt fit for the jab.  :o :o :o :o :o

FDR Obama is not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2011, 04:05:09 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 04:00:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2011, 02:41:21 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 22, 2011, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:30:04 PM
1) 25mpg is industry standard here
2) ok so we'll go with the barrell of oil at $100
That's 500 million saved instead of 350 million...WOW  :D
Its still 3 billion spent to save 500 million..right muppet?
3) what has the price of gas at the pump have to do with this idiocy
Of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ???

Because you calculated the total based on the price of oil. No one uses oil. It must be refined first and that costs money therefore the savings are higher again.

As for 25mpg being industry standard, was that the objective? Merely the most inefficient industry standard in the western world? They could have aimed higher.

I don't know anything about Obama's 'clunkers scheme', in fact I never heard of it till I read your post but I can see holes in the figures and that suggests to me someone is telling porkies.
Sorry not buying that...you were simply caught out trying to be a smart ass
Yet again with limited knowledge of the point being made!

I have stated that until I read your post I had no knowledge of the point being made. However I could still punch holes in your professors figures while knowing nothing about it.
Case in point...you don't need to be stuck in every post pretending to know all about everything...you've no business coming at me in an effort to educate me
on a subject you admittedly know nothing about  8)

You put up figures on a public website to pursue your usual agenda. I am as entitled as anyone else to point out the holes in them.

As usual you hide behind straw man arguments.

Fear not those who argue but those who dodge  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Fire away...you questioned the price of a barrel of oil which I give you
But even if we go with HB's figures, what's your take on the 3:1 short fall
on American tax payers money while stimulating the Japanese auto industry...or is that another straw man question?  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2011, 04:59:51 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2011, 04:05:09 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 04:00:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2011, 02:41:21 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 22, 2011, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 22, 2011, 07:30:04 PM
1) 25mpg is industry standard here
2) ok so we'll go with the barrell of oil at $100
That's 500 million saved instead of 350 million...WOW  :D
Its still 3 billion spent to save 500 million..right muppet?
3) what has the price of gas at the pump have to do with this idiocy
Of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies ???

Because you calculated the total based on the price of oil. No one uses oil. It must be refined first and that costs money therefore the savings are higher again.

As for 25mpg being industry standard, was that the objective? Merely the most inefficient industry standard in the western world? They could have aimed higher.

I don't know anything about Obama's 'clunkers scheme', in fact I never heard of it till I read your post but I can see holes in the figures and that suggests to me someone is telling porkies.
Sorry not buying that...you were simply caught out trying to be a smart ass
Yet again with limited knowledge of the point being made!

I have stated that until I read your post I had no knowledge of the point being made. However I could still punch holes in your professors figures while knowing nothing about it.
Case in point...you don't need to be stuck in every post pretending to know all about everything...you've no business coming at me in an effort to educate me
on a subject you admittedly know nothing about  8)

You put up figures on a public website to pursue your usual agenda. I am as entitled as anyone else to point out the holes in them.

As usual you hide behind straw man arguments.

Fear not those who argue but those who dodge  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Fire away...you questioned the price of a barrel of oil which I give you
But even if we go with HB's figures, what's your take on the 3:1 short fall
on American tax payers money while stimulating the Japanese auto industry...or is that another straw man question?  ;)

HB answered that better than I can.

Stew, the bailout was Hank Paulson's baby, on Bush's watch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
QuoteHB answered that better than I can.
No shit :D
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge ;)
*You're starting to actually make myles sound intelligent  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on February 23, 2011, 05:08:36 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 03:53:05 PM

The only auto industry stimulated was the Japanese industry  ::)
Obama didn't have the cop on to limit the plan to American made cars  :-[


what, like these?
(http://motortorque.askaprice.com/images/features/428-288/Homer-Simpson-car-21638.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2011, 05:18:45 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 03:53:05 PM
QuoteWhatever about the figures on gas prices, was the program not intended more to stimulate the auto industry
The only auto industry stimulated was the Japanese industry  ::)
Obama didn't have the cop on to limit the plan to American made cars  :-[
QuoteThe 3 billion versus 350 millions comparison makes no sense. The payout was by the government, the 'saving' was not 'us' it would have been the end users of the new vehicles
*shakes head

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-11-chrysler-gm-cash-clunkers_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-11-chrysler-gm-cash-clunkers_N.htm)

One minute on Google punches a hole in this.

Q: What's wrong with environmentalists' idea that the new car or truck should get much better fuel economy than the House bill currently requires?

A: Opponents say the environmentalists' fuel-economy improvement thresholds are so high that foreign brands benefit disproportionately, because their lineups tend now to have more small, fuel-efficient vehicles.

But the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy complained in a statement criticizing the House bill that the proposal as it stands now is way too lenient.

The council charged that the bill "aims primarily to clear Detroit's unsold inventory from the storage lots," rather than to seriously cut fuel use.[/i]

The reason they limited the incentive to very modest fuel economy improvements was to protect the inefficient US auto industry. If they insisted on truly economic cars the scheme would have benefitted the foreign manufacturers disproportionately.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 03:51:23 AM
The degree of effort you'll go to to find an angle in an attempt to justify a complete disaster like this on tax payers takes any confusion I've had on how Ireland found itself in the financial situation it's in  :o

Funny how your ideas on waste from inept politicians differ so much depending on whether the discussion is on the US or Ireland  ::)
Pathetic!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on February 24, 2011, 05:06:43 PM
FBI accused of violating Muslims' rights at mosque
By ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: Feb 23, 2011 13:46 Updated: Feb 23, 2011 13:46

LOS ANGELES: Two civil liberties groups have sued the FBI, claiming that one of the agency's former informants was ordered to target Muslims for surveillance when he infiltrated a California mosque.

The ACLU of Southern California and the Los Angeles office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations filed the lawsuit Tuesday in federal court, the Washington Post reported.

The lawsuit alleged that ex-FBI informant Craig Monteilh violated Muslims' constitutional rights of freedom of religion by conducting "indiscriminate surveillance" because of their religion.

The suit named the FBI and seven of its agents and supervisors, and sought class-action status, unspecified damages and a court order instructing the FBI to destroy or return the information Monteilh collected.

FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller told The Associated Press she could not comment on the lawsuit, but she emphasized that the FBI does not target religious groups or individuals based on their religion.

The agency "does not investigate houses of worship or religious groups, but people who are alleged to be involved in criminal activity, regardless of their affiliations," Eimiller said.

Monteilh infiltrated an Orange County mosque and helped build a case against an Afghan-born man who was arrested on terrorism-related charges in 2009.

The lawsuit claimed that Monteilh's handlers — FBI agents Kevin Armstrong and Paul Allen — instructed him to collect e-mail addresses, phone numbers and other information about Muslims and "explicitly told Monteilh that Islam was a threat to America's national security," according to the Post.

The two agents declined to comment to the newspaper.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 24, 2011, 05:12:40 PM
Fox *News Chief in bother

(*news = no semblance of news but rather things we think you'd like to hear)

from http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/nyregion/25roger-ailes.html

Affidavits Say Fox News Chief Told Employee to LieBy RUSS BUETTNER


QuoteIt was an incendiary allegation — and a mystery of great intrigue in the media world: After the publishing powerhouse Judith Regan was fired by HarperCollins in 2006, she claimed that a senior executive at its parent company, News Corporation, had encouraged her to lie to federal investigators two years before.

The investigators had been vetting Bernard B. Kerik, the former New York City police commissioner who had been nominated to become secretary of Homeland Security and who had had an affair with Ms. Regan.

The goal of the News Corporation executive, according to Ms. Regan, was to keep the affair quiet and protect the then-nascent presidential aspirations of former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Kerik's mentor and supporter.

But Ms. Regan never revealed the identity of the executive, even as her allegation made headlines and she brought a wrongful termination suit against HarperCollins and News Corporation.

But now, affidavits filed in a separate lawsuit reveal the identity of the previously unnamed executive: Roger E. Ailes, chairman of Fox News.

What is more, the documents say that Ms. Regan taped the telephone call from Mr. Ailes in which Mr. Ailes discusses her relationship with Mr. Kerik.

It is unclear whether the existence of the tape played a role in News Corporation's decision to move quickly to settle Ms. Regan's lawsuit, paying her $10.75 million in a confidential settlement reached two months after she filed it in 2007.

Depending on the specifics, the conversation could possibly rise to the level of conspiring to lie to federal officials, a federal crime, but prosecutors rarely pursue such cases, said Daniel C. Richman, a Columbia University law professor and former federal prosecutor.

"In the scheme of things there are other priorities, and these are not necessarily easy cases to make," Mr. Richman said.

Of course, if it were to become public, the tape could be highly embarrassing to Mr. Ailes, a onetime adviser to Richard Nixon whom critics deride as a partisan who engineers Fox News coverage to advance Republicans and damage Democrats, something Fox has long denied. Mr. Ailes also had close ties with Mr. Giuliani, whom he advised in his first mayoral race. Mr. Giuliani officiated at Mr. Ailes's wedding and intervened on his behalf when the Fox News Channel was blocked from securing a cable station in the city.

In a statement released on Wednesday, a News Corporation spokeswoman did not deny that Mr. Ailes was the executive on the recording.

But the spokeswoman, Teri Everett, said that News Corporation has a letter from Ms. Regan "stating that Mr. Ailes did not intend to influence her with respect to a government investigation."

"The matter is closed," Ms. Everett said.

Ms. Everett declined to release the letter, and Ms. Regan's lawyer, Robert E. Brown, said the News Corporation's description of the letter did not represent Ms. Regan's complete statement.

The new documents emerged as part of a lawsuit filed in 2008 in which Ms. Regan's former lawyers in the News Corporation case accused her of firing them on the eve of the settlement to avoid paying them a 25 percent contingency fee. The parties in that case signed an agreement to keep the records confidential, but it does not appear a court order sealing them was ever sent to the clerk at State Supreme Court in Manhattan, and the records were placed in the public case file.

Discussion of the recorded conversation with Mr. Ailes emerges in affidavits from Ms. Regan's ex-lawyers who are seeking to document the work they did on her case and for which they deserve the contingency fee. They describe consulting with a forensic audio expert about the tape.

No transcript of the conversation is included in the court records.

But Brian C. Kerr, one of Ms. Regan's former lawyers, describes in an affidavit the physical evidence he reviewed as "including a tape recording of a conversation between her and Roger Ailes, which is alluded to throughout the complaint" that Mr. Kerr and another lawyer, Seth Redniss, drafted for Ms. Regan.

That complaint said that News Corporation executives "were well aware that Regan had a personal relationship with Kerik."

"In fact," the complaint said, "a senior executive in the News Corporation organization told Regan that he believed she had information about Kerik that, if disclosed, would harm Giuliani's presidential campaign. This executive advised Regan to lie to, and to withhold information from, investigators concerning Kerik."

Mr. Redniss, in his affidavit, referred to "a recorded telephone call between Roger Ailes, the chairman of Fox News (a News Corp. company) and Regan, in which Mr. Ailes discussed with Regan her responses to questions regarding her personal relationship with Bernard Kerik."

"The 'Ailes' matter became a focal point of our work," Mr. Redniss continued.

The dispute involves a cast of well-known and outsize personalities: it also includes some New Yorkers who have suffered spectacular career meltdowns.

Mr. Kerik, was sent to prison last year after pleading guilty to federal charges including tax fraud and lying to White House officials.

The law firm Ms. Regan hired to draft her complaint against News Corporation was headed by Marc S. Dreier, whose firm was cast into bankruptcy in 2008 when he was charged with a $100 million fraud scheme. The firm's suit seeking the contingency fee from Ms. Regan is being led by the bankruptcy trustee handling the dissolution of the firm. Mr. Redniss was a co-counsel to the Dreier firm.

Ms. Regan's own crash was remarkable in itself. While often controversial for her book choices, which ranged from literary novels to sex advice from a pornography star, her imprint at HarperCollins had become one of the more financially successful in the business.

The end came quickly in late 2006. Rupert Murdoch, the News Corporation chairman, was quoted saying it had been "ill advised" for her to pursue "If I Did It," a hypothetical murder confession by O. J. Simpson. A novel that included imagined drunken escapades by Mickey Mantle drew another round of outrage.

Then News Corporation said Ms. Regan had been fired because she made an anti-Semitic remark to a Jewish HarperCollins lawyer, Mark H. Jackson, in describing the internal campaign to fire her as a "Jewish cabal."

In her suit in 2007, Ms. Regan said the book controversies had been trumped up and the anti-Semitic remark invented to discredit her, should she ever speak out about Mr. Kerik in ways that would harm Mr. Giuliani's image. The new court documents expand upon that charge and link it to Mr. Ailes.

Mr. Redniss wrote in an affidavit that Ms. Regan told him that Mr. Ailes sought to brand her as promiscuous and crazy.

"Regan believed that Ailes and News Corp. subsidiary Fox News had an interest in protecting Giuliani's bid for the U.S. presidency," he wrote.

As part of the settlement in January 2008, News Corporation publicly retracted the allegation that Ms. Regan had made an anti-Semitic remark to Mr. Jackson, who has since been promoted to general counsel of Dow Jones & Company, the News Corporation subsidiary that owns The Wall Street Journal.

The court records examined by The New York Times this week — which have subsequently been taken out of the public case file — also reveal another interesting footnote. After Ms. Regan fired her lawyers, a seemingly unlikely figure came forward to help settle the case: Susan Estrich, a law professor and a regular Fox commentator whose book Ms. Regan had published, according Ms. Regan's affidavit.


William K. Rashbaum contributed reporting.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2011, 05:13:01 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 03:51:23 AM
The degree of effort you'll go to to find an angle in an attempt to justify a complete disaster like this on tax payers takes any confusion I've had on how Ireland found itself in the financial situation it's in  :o

Funny how your ideas on waste from inept politicians differ so much depending on whether the discussion is on the US or Ireland  ::)
Pathetic!

I'm not justifying anything. I couldn't care less whether Obama gives you all free 10 litre- SUVs or makes you all walk everywhere.

The US gives more in aid to Israel, for no return, than this stimulus package. I take it you are equally upset at that particular 'disaster like this on tax payers'.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 05:51:03 PM
QuoteI'm not justifying anything.
Not successfully anyway, hard as you're trying!
QuoteI couldn't care less whether Obama gives you all free 10 litre- SUVs or makes you all walk everywhere.
You seem to have an awful lot to say on the subject for someone who couldn't care less  ::)
Quote
The US gives more in aid to Israel, for no return, than this stimulus package. I take it you are equally upset at that particular 'disaster like this on tax payers'.
Ah when in doubt it's back to Israhell...the old faithful :D
Seriously...how do ye haters get out of bed in the mornings  ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2011, 05:58:35 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 05:51:03 PM
QuoteI'm not justifying anything.
Not successfully anyway, hard as you're trying!
QuoteI couldn't care less whether Obama gives you all free 10 litre- SUVs or makes you all walk everywhere.
You seem to have an awful lot to say on the subject for someone who couldn't care less  ::)
Quote
The US gives more in aid to Israel, for no return, than this stimulus package. I take it you are equally upset at that particular 'disaster like this on tax payers'.
Ah when in doubt it's back to Israhell...the old faithful :D
Seriously...how do ye haters get out of bed in the mornings  ???

The usual Tyrone's Own post of assumptions, lies and diversions.

I pointed out the errors in your calculation. You as usual made absurd deductions based on the fact that someone disagreed with you. I don't care about Obama, is that so hard to understand?

I pointed out that the US spends more on aid to Israel than on the car stimulus programme and now I am an Israel hater? How the hell did you deduce that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 06:03:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2011, 05:58:35 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 05:51:03 PM
QuoteI'm not justifying anything.
Not successfully anyway, hard as you're trying!
QuoteI couldn't care less whether Obama gives you all free 10 litre- SUVs or makes you all walk everywhere.
You seem to have an awful lot to say on the subject for someone who couldn't care less  ::)
Quote
The US gives more in aid to Israel, for no return, than this stimulus package. I take it you are equally upset at that particular 'disaster like this on tax payers'.
Ah when in doubt it's back to Israhell...the old faithful :D
Seriously...how do ye haters get out of bed in the mornings  ???

The usual Tyrone's Own post of assumptions, lies and diversions.

I pointed out the errors in your calculation. You as usual made absurd deductions based on the fact that someone disagreed with you. I don't care about Obama, is that so hard to understand?

I pointed out that the US spends more on aid to Israel than on the car stimulus programme and now I am an Israel hater? How the hell did you deduce that?
You pointed out one error which I gave you... I then asked you to go ahead and use HB's numbers..which of course didn't suit your agenda  ::)
Again, would you be as defensive had the two Brians for instance come up with such an inept plan at tax payers expense  :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2011, 06:10:44 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 06:03:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2011, 05:58:35 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 05:51:03 PM
QuoteI'm not justifying anything.
Not successfully anyway, hard as you're trying!
QuoteI couldn't care less whether Obama gives you all free 10 litre- SUVs or makes you all walk everywhere.
You seem to have an awful lot to say on the subject for someone who couldn't care less  ::)
Quote
The US gives more in aid to Israel, for no return, than this stimulus package. I take it you are equally upset at that particular 'disaster like this on tax payers'.
Ah when in doubt it's back to Israhell...the old faithful :D
Seriously...how do ye haters get out of bed in the mornings  ???

The usual Tyrone's Own post of assumptions, lies and diversions.

I pointed out the errors in your calculation. You as usual made absurd deductions based on the fact that someone disagreed with you. I don't care about Obama, is that so hard to understand?

I pointed out that the US spends more on aid to Israel than on the car stimulus programme and now I am an Israel hater? How the hell did you deduce that?
You pointed out one error which I gave you... I then asked you to go ahead and use HB's numbers..which of course didn't suit your agenda  ::)
Again, would you be as defensive had the two Brians for instance come up with such an inept plan at tax payers expense  :-X

You gave me nothing. At least now you have admitted an error.

It was pointed out that HB's 3:1 ratio could be interpreted as paying for itself in 3 years. That is what I was referring to.

As for the two Brians, they have bankrupted a generation of Irish. I have posted a thousand posts here attacking their ineptitude and incompetence.

However they had a car scrappage scheme here too. I didn't attack it because anyone can see there was some logic to it. Car sales were an all time low, old cars are less efficient and more dangerous than brand new ones. It mightn't quite make us all rich but it isn't worth attacking unless of course your agenda is to simply attack everything your chosen enemy does, says or wears.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on February 24, 2011, 06:58:45 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 03:53:05 PM
QuoteWhatever about the figures on gas prices, was the program not intended more to stimulate the auto industry
The only auto industry stimulated was the Japanese industry  ::)
Obama didn't have the cop on to limit the plan to American made cars  :-[
QuoteThe 3 billion versus 350 millions comparison makes no sense. The payout was by the government, the 'saving' was not 'us' it would have been the end users of the new vehicles
*shakes head

Top two makers to benefit were Ford and Toyota. Toyota makes plenty of vehicles in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 07:55:09 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on February 24, 2011, 06:58:45 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 23, 2011, 03:53:05 PM
QuoteWhatever about the figures on gas prices, was the program not intended more to stimulate the auto industry
The only auto industry stimulated was the Japanese industry  ::)
Obama didn't have the cop on to limit the plan to American made cars  :-[
QuoteThe 3 billion versus 350 millions comparison makes no sense. The payout was by the government, the 'saving' was not 'us' it would have been the end users of the new vehicles
*shakes head

Top two makers to benefit were Ford Honda and Toyota. Toyota makes plenty of vehicles in the US.
Incorrect... Ford only topped the list of the most popular traded in vehicle
against the shiny new Japanese models.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 24, 2011, 08:03:28 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32567404/ns/business-autos/

Toyota Motor Corp. led the industry with 19.4 percent of new sales, followed by General Motors Co. with 17.6 percent and Ford Motor Co. with 14.4 percent.

The Toyota Corolla was the most popular new vehicle purchased under the program. The Honda Civic, Toyota Camry and Ford Focus held the next three top spots. All four are built in the United States.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 08:09:30 PM
QuoteYou gave me nothing. At least now you have admitted an error.
I admitted nothing...to beat you at your own pandantics, I simply allowed you to run with the oil at $100 instead of $70 to have you realize that it made feck all difference on the grand scheme of the ineptitude!

QuoteIt was pointed out that HB's 3:1 ratio could be interpreted as paying for itself in 3 years. That is what I was referring to.
Interpreted  :D  can you name many Government programmes that ever actually pay for themselves  ??? No... this one just happened to be extra special is that it?

Quote
As for the two Brians, they have bankrupted a generation of Irish. I have posted a thousand posts here attacking their ineptitude and incompetence.
So it's OK for you to berate and highlight inept politicians in Ireland but no one else should be allowed the same opportunity without being attacked for everything they say, do or wear  ::)
Quote
However they had a car scrappage scheme here too.
And how many Billion did that one Fcuk the Irish tax payers out of  ::)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2011, 08:14:01 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 08:09:30 PM
QuoteYou gave me nothing. At least now you have admitted an error.
I admitted nothing...to beat you at your own pandantics, I simply allowed you to run with the oil at $100 instead of $70 to have you realize that it made feck all difference on the grand scheme of the ineptitude!

QuoteIt was pointed out that HB's 3:1 ratio could be interpreted as paying for itself in 3 years. That is what I was referring to.
Interpreted  :D  can you name many Government programmes that ever actually pay for themselves  ??? No... this one just happened to be extra special is that it?

Quote
As for the two Brians, they have bankrupted a generation of Irish. I have posted a thousand posts here attacking their ineptitude and incompetence.
So it's OK for you to berate and highlight inept politicians in Ireland but no one else should be allowed the same opportunity without being attacked for everything they say, do or wear  ::)
Quote
However they had a car scrappage scheme here too.
And how many Billion did that one Fcuk the Irish tax payers out of  ::)

This is a car scrappage scheme. Look at the actions of your beloved George W. Bush and you are ranting on about a car scrappage scheme. Bush put $700 Billion into Wall Street & its ilk. He has spent unknown billions on 2 wars. But you are ranting on about a car scrappage scheme. Do you have a vested interest in this scheme failing or something?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 08:18:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2011, 08:14:01 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 24, 2011, 08:09:30 PM
QuoteYou gave me nothing. At least now you have admitted an error.
I admitted nothing...to beat you at your own pandantics, I simply allowed you to run with the oil at $100 instead of $70 to have you realize that it made feck all difference on the grand scheme of the ineptitude!

QuoteIt was pointed out that HB's 3:1 ratio could be interpreted as paying for itself in 3 years. That is what I was referring to.
Interpreted  :D  can you name many Government programmes that ever actually pay for themselves  ??? No... this one just happened to be extra special is that it?

Quote
As for the two Brians, they have bankrupted a generation of Irish. I have posted a thousand posts here attacking their ineptitude and incompetence.
So it's OK for you to berate and highlight inept politicians in Ireland but no one else should be allowed the same opportunity without being attacked for everything they say, do or wear  ::)
Quote
However they had a car scrappage scheme here too.
And how many Billion did that one Fcuk the Irish tax payers out of  ::)

This is a car scrappage scheme. Look at the actions of your beloved George W. Bush and you are ranting on about a car scrappage scheme. Bush put $700 Billion into Wall Street & its ilk. He has spent unknown billions on 2 wars. But you are ranting on about a car scrappage scheme. Do you have a vested interest in this scheme failing or something?
Ah so we're moving on now if it's not Israhell it's bush.. ::)
Actually yes..I made out like a bandit having invested in the Japanese auto industries while shorting GM ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on February 25, 2011, 09:37:59 PM
Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA
By KATHY GANNON & ADAM GOLDMAN | AP

Published: Feb 24, 2011 23:30 Updated: Feb 24, 2011 23:30

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan's ISI spy agency is ready to split with the CIA because of frustration over what it calls heavy-handed pressure and its anger over what it believes is a covert US operation involving hundreds of contract spies, according to a document obtained by The Associated Press and interviews with US and Pakistani officials.

Such a move could seriously damage the US war effort in Afghanistan, limit a program targeting Al-Qaeda insurgents along the Pakistan frontier, and restrict Washington's access to information in the nuclear-armed country.

According to a statement drafted by the ISI, supported by interviews with officials, an already-fragile relationship between the two agencies collapsed following the shooting death of two Pakistanis by Raymond Davis, a US contracted spy who is in jail in Pakistan facing possible multiple murder charges.

"Post-incident conduct of the CIA has virtually put the partnership into question," said a media statement prepared by the ISI but never released. A copy was obtained this week by the AP.

The statement accused the CIA of using pressure tactics to free Davis.

"It is hard to predict if the relationship will ever reach the level at which it was prior to the Davis episode," the statement said. "The onus of not stalling this relationship between the two agencies now squarely lies on the CIA."

The ISI fears there are hundreds of CIA contracted spies operating in Pakistan without the knowledge of either the Pakistan government or the intelligence agency, a senior Pakistani intelligence official told the AP in an interview. He spoke only on condition he not be identified on grounds that exposure would compromise his security.

Pakistan intelligence had no idea who Davis was or what he was doing when he was arrested, the official said, adding that there are concerns about "how many more Raymond Davises are out there." Davis was arrested Jan. 27 in Lahore after shooting two Pakistanis. A third Pakistani was killed by a US Consulate vehicle coming to assist the American. Pakistan demanded the driver be handed over, but the AP has learned the two US employees in the car now are in the United States.

Davis has pleaded self-defense, but the Lahore police upon completing their investigation said they would seek murder charges. The ISI official told the AP that Davis had contacts in the tribal regions and knew both the men he shot. He said the ISI is investigating the possibility that the encounter on the streets of Lahore stemmed from a meeting or from threats to Davis.

US officials deny Davis had prior contact with the men before the incident, and CIA spokesman George Little said any problems between the two agencies will be sorted out.

"The CIA works closely with our Pakistani counterparts on a wide range of security challenges, including our common fight against Al-Qaeda and its terrorist allies," he said.

"The agency's ties to ISI have been strong over the years, and when there are issues to sort out, we work through them. That's the sign of a healthy partnership." The CIA repeatedly has tried to penetrate the ISI and learn more about Pakistan's nuclear program. The ISI has mounted its own operations to gather intelligence on the CIA's counterterrorism activities The ISI is now scouring thousands of visas issued to US employees in Pakistan. The ISI official said Davis' visa application contains bogus references and phone numbers. He said thousands of visas were issued to US Embassy employees over the past five months following a government directive to the Pakistan Embassy in Washington to issue visas without the usual vetting by the interior ministry and the ISI. The same directive was issued to the Pakistan embassies in Britain and the United Arab Emirates, he said.

Within two days of receiving that directive, the Pakistani Embassy issued 400 visas and since then thousands more have been issued, said the ISI official. A Western diplomat in Pakistan agreed that a "floodgate" opened for US Embassy employees requesting Pakistani visas.

The ISI official said his agency knows and works with "the bona fide CIA people in Pakistan" but is upset that the CIA would send others over behind its back. For now, he said, his agency is not talking with the CIA at any level, including the most senior.

To regain support and assistance, he said, "they have to start showing respect, not belittling us, not being belligerent to us, not treating us like we are their lackeys." NATO and US operations in Afghanistan could be adversely effected by a split between the ISI and the CIA. Washington complains bitterly about Pakistan's refusal to go after the Pakistani-headquartered Haqqani network, which is believed to be the strongest fighting force in Afghanistan and closely allied with Al-Qaeda.

The ISI official said Pakistan is fed up with Washington's complaints, and he accused the CIA of planting stories about ISI assistance to the Haqqani network.

Relations between the CIA and ISI have been on a downward slide since the name of the US agency's station chief in Pakistan was leaked in a lawsuit accusing him of killing civilians in a drone strike.

Fearing for his safety, the CIA eventually pulled the station chief out of the country. ISI leaders balked at allegations that they outed the CIA top spy in their country. Former and current US officials believe the station chief fell out of favor, but the Pakistanis say this is not the case Those accusations and the naming of ISI chief Shujah Pasha in a civil lawsuit in the United States — filed by family members of victims of a November 2008 attack in Mumbai, India, by insurgents — started the downslide in relations, the ISI official said.

To help repair the crucial relationship, the CIA earlier this year dispatched a very senior officer to be the new station chief who was previously the head of the European Division, one of the most important jobs in the National Clandestine Service, the agency's spy arm.

The spy agencies have overcome lows before. During President George W. Bush's first term, the ISI became enraged after it shared intelligence with the United States, only to learn that the then-CIA station chief passed that information to the British. The incident caused a serious row, one that threatened the CIA's relationship with the ISI and deepened the levels of distrust between the two sides. At the time Pakistan almost threw the CIA station chief out of the country.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on February 26, 2011, 08:46:14 AM
I spy with my little eye people who are in a conspiracy theory
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on February 26, 2011, 10:54:05 AM
watch that boy behind you on the grassy knoll ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mannix on February 26, 2011, 04:13:52 PM
Imagine a Pakistani spy killing two American homeboys that were going to rob him and then calling for his friends to come and rescue him, they kill another American on the way with their car.
Life in jail?  Death penalty?
One thing would be certain, there would be no question of him walking. Pakistan is in a tough spot, either bow to the power and hand him over or else things happen in the country to destabilize them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on March 17, 2011, 07:24:26 AM
Pakistan frees CIA contractor after 'blood money' deal

By Omar Waraich in Islamabad


Thursday, 17 March 2011


Raymond Davis was in Pakistan spying on a militant anti-Indian group believed to be responsible for the 2008 Mumbai attacks


One of the biggest crises between Pakistan and the United States has been defused after a Lahore court released Raymond Davis, a CIA contractor facing charges of double murder, after a blood-money settlement was paid to families of the victims.


While the release of Mr Davis cools tensions, after plunging relations to a low point, it is likely to inflame an already enraged Pakistani public and media. Islamist parties took to the streets in protest last night.

Each of the two men's families were paid $700,000 (£437,000) by the CIA, senior Pakistani officials told The Independent. Under Pakistan's laws, a Sharia-based provision allows the families of murder victims to forgive the accused in exchange for monetary compensation. The "blood money" laws have been invoked in a majority of murder cases in Pakistan.

The arrangement was the result of lengthy direct negotiations between the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the CIA. Last night, the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, denied that the American government had paid the money.

Mr Davis was a CIA contractor working in Pakistan without the ISI's authorisation, spying on the banned Pakistani militant outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba, an anti-Indian group that is held responsible for the November 2008 Mumbai attacks.

The blood money formula was first devised by Husain Haqqani, Pakistan's ambassador to the US, who is well versed in Islamic law. He discussed the proposal with US Senator John Kerry, who subsequently took it with him for discussions with Pakistani leaders. In late February, the CIA and the ISI opened direct negotiations with each other, discussing how to reach a settlement. By circumventing the issue of diplomatic immunity, the blood-money formula helped the Pakistani government to save face, said Pakistani officials.

Washington had always said Mr Davis enjoyed immunity from prosecution under the Vienna Convention. The Lahore court disputed this, ruling last week that he had no immunity.

The victims of the families were persuaded to accept the compensation by the ISI, said a senior Pakistani official. Some family members had earlier said they refused to accept compensation. By getting them to do otherwise, the Pakistan government was able to see through its insistence that Pakistani courts be used to settle the matter. The Punjab provincial government was on board.

Amid the negotiations, the ISI was also able to secure an unprecedented two-year extension for its chief, Lieutenant-General Ahmed Shuja Pasha. The message to the civilian government, which had already given army chief General Ashfaq Kayani a three-year extension, was that it would not be prudent to switch spy chiefs during such a crisis. General Pasha had been due to retire in two days.

The Saudis were also approached to play a mediatory role, but refused to do so, a senior Pakistani official said. It was hoped they could cool tensions between the CIA and ISI, ask the religious right which has been demonstrating on the streets to relax, and urge the Punjab government headed by the brother of former prime minister Nawaz Sharif, a key Saudi ally, to co-operate.

Mr Davis is a former special-forces soldier who had worked with Blackwater in Iraq, and arrived in Pakistan in October 2009. The role of contractors in Pakistan was at the heart of the dispute between the CIA and the ISI. It is unclear whether the ISI was able to secure its demand that the CIA withdraw all contractors from Pakistan.

The contractors are a part of the CIA's vast covert war inside Pakistan. Though it protests in public, Pakistan has quietly allowed the CIA to routinely fire drone missiles targeting militants in the tribal areas along the Afghan border. But the agencies clashed over the use of contractors who were spying on militant outfits known to have longstanding ties with the ISI.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: hsthompson on March 24, 2011, 01:19:32 PM
Just came across this, A Brief History of the USA
http://stagevu.com/video/yngojirxeiuw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 24, 2011, 02:25:31 PM
You'll win no friends using a Michael Moore artice/video hs. Enjoyable as he is.

Any unbiased sources out there? One both sides would acknowledge is unbiased?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: hsthompson on March 24, 2011, 03:08:39 PM
Eh? Wasn't attempting to win any friends or forward any political viewpoint, just seen that video and thought I'd post it here for others to see. Anyway, I don't know if there is such a thing as unbiased!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 24, 2011, 05:20:20 PM
Quote from: hsthompson on March 24, 2011, 03:08:39 PM
Eh? Wasn't attempting to win any friends or forward any political viewpoint, just seen that video and thought I'd post it here for others to see. Anyway, I don't know if there is such a thing as unbiased!

I was being a bit of a smart arse but I'm hoping that people on both ends of the spectum could direct me to a news source that  unbiased. 

May not be a source, but I'd like to know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: hsthompson on March 24, 2011, 05:52:11 PM
Not sure of what would be classed as an unbiased news source in the US, everything there is so business driven so it's difficult for them to remain unbiased. Over here I would say the BBC is usually unbiased these days generally speaking because it's a public service. Do you not watch much news or what? (not being smart)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on March 26, 2011, 01:11:00 AM
The Humanitarian side to the brave men and Women of the US military that is way too often over looked!
Didn't catch it on the 6 o'clock news strangely enough nor much emphasis on the discipline, dignity and over all
respect shown to one another by the people of Japan during this crisis either for that matter :-X



Empty Piers -- March 22

From Submarine Group 7 Public Affairs, Mar 22, 2011



The piers were completely empty in Yokosuka today, marking the first time in memory that not a single U.S. Navy ship was in port.  The men and women of U.S. 7th Fleet were at sea focused on Operation Tomodachi, delivering relief to the people of northeast Honshu. A total of 19 ships, 140 aircraft and 19,703 Sailors and Marines of the U.S. 7th Fleet continued to conduct relief operations. To date the Navy has made 349 deliveries of humanitarian assistance and disaster relief supplies to 84 landing sites.

In the last 12 hours, the USS Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group to include USS Chancellorsville (CG 62), USS Preble (DDG 88), USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62), USS McCampbell (DDG 85), USS Mustin (DDG 89) and USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG 54) along with USS Cowpens (CG-63) and USS Shiloh (CG-67) along with USS Harpers Ferry (LSD 49), USS Germantown (LSD 42), USS Tortuga (LSD 46) along with USS Essex (LHD 2) delivered 23 tons of HADR supplies via various helicopters to the hard hit area of near Hachinohe.

Both the USS Ronald Reagan and USS Essex conducted replenishment today with the USNS Matthew Perry (T-AKE 9) to receive more HADR supplies, provisions and fuel.

Sailors and Marines aboard USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76), USS Chancellorsville (CG 62), USS Preble (DDG 88) and the ships from Destroyer Squadron 15 collected personal donations from the crews to supply displaced Japanese citizens with essential goods for survival. The items were transported to various landing zones throughout the Aomori Prefecture by crew members of embarked Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadron (HS) 4.  More than 100 blankets, 237 pants, 450 shirts, 311 jackets and sweaters, 748 pairs of socks, 154 towels, 57 pairs of shoes, 166 undergarments, 76 hats, 8 scarves, and 34 pairs of gloves were donated in just a few hours. Sailors even donated over 20 stuffed animals for children.

Commander Task Force 76 developed port clearance plans for the Hachinohe port.  USNS Safeguard is enroute Hachinohe to assist the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force with clearing debris from the port.

USS Blue Ridge (LCC-19), flagship for the United States Seventh Fleet, remains in the vicinity of Okinawa to conduct transfers of supplies and personnel to augment the staff.

USS George Washington is operating at sea near Shikoku.  USS Lassen is proceeding towards Sasebo where it will continue its maintenance availability.

Families of Seventh Fleet Sailors are continuing to voluntarily depart Yokosuka and Atsugi as part of the Military Assisted Departure for Department of Defense personnel.  U.S. Pacific Command leader Adm. Robert Willard addressed residents at a town hall meeting in Yokosuka this evening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on April 06, 2011, 02:35:19 PM
http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105?currentPage=1 (http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105?currentPage=1)

Interesting article in Vanity Fair - All are equal just some are more equal than others
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 27, 2011, 07:45:51 PM
Obama releases the long form of his birth certificate.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/27/obama.birth.certificate/index.html

I don't think that will convince the lunatic birthers or the almost half of Republican voters who think he was born outside the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Had he shown it from the get go like he was supposed to instead of spending
an astronomical amount of money to conceal his secretive past,
The birthers would never have gotten of the ground  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 27, 2011, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Had he shown it from the get go like he was supposed to instead of spending
an astronomical amount of money to conceal his secretive past,
The birthers would never have gotten of the ground  ;)

You underestimate the birthers. They wouldn't be deterred by something as trivial as evidence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 09:49:10 PM
Quote from: dec on April 27, 2011, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Had he shown it from the get go like he was supposed to instead of spending
an astronomical amount of money to conceal his secretive past,
The birthers would never have gotten of the ground  ;)

You underestimate the birthers. They wouldn't be deterred by something as trivial as evidence.
Jaysus give them time to digest this...it only showed up today
After 2 1/2 years of him trying to run from it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 27, 2011, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 09:49:10 PM
Quote from: dec on April 27, 2011, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Had he shown it from the get go like he was supposed to instead of spending
an astronomical amount of money to conceal his secretive past,
The birthers would never have gotten of the ground  ;)

You underestimate the birthers. They wouldn't be deterred by something as trivial as evidence.
Jaysus give them time to digest this...it only showed up today
After 2 1/2 years of him trying to run from it.

They won't need to digest it, it will be straight on to the next phase of the conspiracy. They didn't accept the Certification of Live Birth which proved that he was born in Hawaii and they won't accept this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 10:03:07 PM
You're probably right...could be a photoshop job perhaps  :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2011, 10:52:18 PM
Part of me thinks he should have told them to go f**k themselves and let them continue tying themselves up in knots over what was plainly a ludicrous, paranoid, petulant conspiracy theory. Politically, it was a no-lose situation. But Trump's presidential PR campaign was raising it to ridiculous levels of "newsworthiness", so he was probably right to release it at this stage. Not that its going to satisfy the more insane elements of the right wing, but I doubt if he gives a f**k about what they think anyway as nothing he can ever do will be greeted by anything other than irrational hatred on their part.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 11:07:31 PM
Quoteso he was probably right to release it at this stage.
He had no choice but release it... have you seen the poll numbers as to the questioning his
eligibility for office owing to the fact that he has went to such lengths, not to mention cost, to conceal most all of his past :o
Quotebut I doubt if he gives a f**k about what they think anyway as nothing he can ever do will be greeted by anything other than irrational hatred on their part.
That's quite a strong word there... He's absolutely everything I said he would be, a complete fecking disaster and the country has finally woken up to it, well most of it, your good self excluded
of course  :-X
Pray tell you're not not still buying or waiting on the Hope and Change thing are ye  ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 28, 2011, 12:26:58 AM
He shouldn't have bothered. The only reason someone could think that Obama was not born in Hawaii even before today is that they didn't want a black person in the White House, unless they were there to shine whitey's shoes, and this isn't going to change that state of affairs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 28, 2011, 01:00:23 AM
David Fum gives a good summary (http://www.frumforum.com/the-birther-disgrace) of the real story behind birtherism:

QuoteThe Birther Disgrace

Even for the small band that sustained the phony controversy until now, the birth certificate so-called issue ends today.

Any last lingering doubts that maybe, perhaps, a pregnant Stanley Ann Dunham in the summer of 1961 boarded a propeller plane from Honolulu to Los Angeles, then from Los Angeles to New York City, then from New York City to Gander, then from Gander to London, then from London to Nairobi – and then repeated the trip backward a few weeks later – all so that her baby could acquire Kenyan nationality – those doubts are definitively squelched, as they should have been three years ago.

Now the more haunting question: How did this poisonous and not very subtly racist allegation get such a grip on our conservative movement and our Republican party?

I know there will be Republican writers and conservative publicists who will now deny that birtherism ever did get a grip. Sorry, that's just wrong. Not only did Trump surge ahead in Republican polls by flaming racial fires – not only did conservative media outlets from Fox to Drudge to the Breitbart sites indulge the birthers – but so also did every Republican candidate who said, "I take the president at his word." Birthers did not doubt the president's "word." They were doubting the official records of the state of Hawaii. It's like answering a 9/11 conspiracist by saying, "I take the 9/11 families at their word that they lost their loved ones."

Yet even now, the racialist aspect of the anti-Obama movement has not subsided. Trump has moved from the birth certificate to questioning the president's academic qualifications for the Harvard Law School. Trump himself was a troubled student (at one point he attended a military school) who nonetheless gained admission to Wharton. His father's wealth and business success cannot have hurt with that application. Yet he feels himself qualified to pronounce on who is and who is not smart enough to attend Harvard Law. Barack Obama graduated magna cum laude. (And to anticipate a new line of attack – yes, Harvard Law School exams were blind-graded.) He was elected editor of the law review. And his classmates, left and right, universally admired his abilities.

I wish it were otherwise, but it does seem that these racialized attacks on Obama have exacted a toll on him. But they also have exacted a toll on the opposition to Obama. The too-faint repudiation of birtherism by regular Republicans has shaped not only the Obama brand, but also the Republican brand. It was not only white people who heard the implied message about who counts and who does not count as a "real American."

I write as an opponent of virtually every major and minor action of this administration. Republicans should be fighting this president on policy, not winking at those who use race as a weapon. It's worth recalling the generous words of John McCain on election night 2008:

Though we have come a long way from the old injustices that once stained our nation's reputation and denied some Americans the full blessings of American citizenship, the memory of them still had the power to wound. A century ago, President Theodore Roosevelt's invitation of Booker T. Washington to dine at the White House was taken as an outrage in many quarters. America today is a world away from the cruel and frightful bigotry of that time. There is no better evidence of this than the election of an African-American to the presidency of the United States. Let there be no reason now for any American to fail to cherish their citizenship in this, the greatest nation on Earth.

And those who imagine that they somehow enhance the value of that citizenship by belittling the American-ness of their president – they not only disgrace the politics they uphold, but they do damage that will not soon be forgotten by the voters a revived Republicanism must win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 28, 2011, 02:52:11 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 11:07:31 PM
He had no choice but release it... have you seen the poll numbers as to the questioning his
eligibility for office owing to the fact that he has went to such lengths, not to mention cost, to conceal most all of his past :o
So what lengths and cost is he supposed to have gone to, to conceal this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 28, 2011, 08:14:27 AM
Quote from: dec on April 28, 2011, 02:52:11 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 11:07:31 PM
He had no choice but release it... have you seen the poll numbers as to the questioning his
eligibility for office owing to the fact that he has went to such lengths, not to mention cost, to conceal most all of his past :o
So what lengths and cost is he supposed to have gone to, to conceal this?

Supposedly Obama spent $2 million on lawyers fighting people who took law suits demanding to see the birth cert. This is a barefaced lie (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/11/trump_palin_two_million_birther), but facts have a well-known liberal bias
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: dec on April 27, 2011, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Had he shown it from the get go like he was supposed to instead of spending
an astronomical amount of money to conceal his secretive past,
The birthers would never have gotten of the ground  ;)

You underestimate the birthers. They wouldn't be deterred by something as trivial as evidence.

Sure these were the same goons who ceaselessly assured us that GW Bush could read!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:30:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 28, 2011, 12:26:58 AM
He shouldn't have bothered. The only reason someone could think that Obama was not born in Hawaii even before today is that they didn't want a black person in the White House, unless they were there to shine whitey's shoes, and this isn't going to change that state of affairs
Agh true to form...when the back is against the wall for any multitude of
reasons, bring on the race card.
Ignorance in spectacular form  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: hsthompson on April 28, 2011, 03:37:06 PM
TO - do you genuinely think Obama wasn't born in the US? Do you think Trump would be a better man for the job?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: dec on April 27, 2011, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Had he shown it from the get go like he was supposed to instead of spending
an astronomical amount of money to conceal his secretive past,
The birthers would never have gotten of the ground  ;)

You underestimate the birthers. They wouldn't be deterred by something as trivial as evidence.

Sure these were the same goons who ceaselessly assured us that GW Bush could read!
No, you're confusing him with Obama...Bush didn't read from a teleprompter  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: hsthompson on April 28, 2011, 03:37:06 PM
TO - do you genuinely think Obama wasn't born in the US? Do you think Trump would be a better man for the job?
No and no..but fair play to Trump making him come out and show it
in two weeks what we the people couldn't do in 2 1/2 years!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 28, 2011, 03:42:31 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:37:39 PMNo, you're confusing him with Obama...Bush didn't read from a teleprompter  :P
Fixed that for you...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:52:19 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 28, 2011, 03:42:31 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:37:39 PMNo, you're confusing him with Obama...Bush didn't read from a teleprompter  :P
Fixed that for you...
Sure throw up Obama's school records and I'll post Bush's and we'll go from there
...oops, that's right, Obama's can't be found, wonder why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 28, 2011, 03:53:09 PM
Editorial
A Certificate of Embarrassment

from: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/opinion/28thu1.html

With sardonic resignation, President Obama, an eminently rational man, stared directly into political irrationality on Wednesday and released his birth certificate to history. More than halfway through his term, the president felt obliged to prove that he was a legitimate occupant of the Oval Office. It was a profoundly low and debasing moment in American political life.

The disbelief fairly dripped from Mr. Obama as he stood at the West Wing lectern. People are out of work, American soldiers are dying overseas and here were cameras to record him stating that he was born in a Hawaii hospital. It was particularly galling to us that it was in answer to a baseless attack with heavy racial undertones.

Mr. Obama practically begged the public to set aside these distractions, expressing hope that his gesture would end the "silliness" and allow a national debate about budget priorities. It won't, of course.

If there was ever any doubt about Mr. Obama's citizenship, which there was not, the issue was settled years ago when Hawaii released his birth certificate. The fuller document that Mr. Obama had to request contains some extra information, including his parents' signatures and the name of the hospital where he was born, but it was unnecessary to show his legitimacy.

So it will not quiet the most avid attackers. Several quickly questioned its authenticity. That's because the birther question was never really about citizenship; it was simply a proxy for those who never accepted the president's legitimacy, for a toxic mix of reasons involving ideology, deep political anger and, most insidious of all, race. It was originally promulgated by fringe figures of the radical right, but mainstream Republican leaders allowed it to simmer to satisfy those who are inflamed by Mr. Obama's presence in the White House.

Sarah Palin said the birth certificate issue was "fair game," and the public was "rightfully" making it an issue. The House speaker, John Boehner, grudgingly said in February that he would take Mr. Obama "at his word" that he was a citizen, a suggestion that the proof was insufficient. He said, however, that it was not his job to end the nonsensical attacks. "The American people have the right to think what they want to think," he said at the time. That signal was clearly received. Lawmakers in nearly a dozen states introduced bills requiring presidential candidates to release their full birth certificates.

It is inconceivable that this campaign to portray Mr. Obama as the insidious "other" would have been conducted against a white president.

There was a price to the party for keeping the issue alive; inevitably, it was picked up by a cartoon candidate, Donald Trump, who rode birtherism directly to the prime-time promontories of cable TV. The Republican establishment began to wince as it became increasingly tied to Mr. Trump's flirtations with racial provocation, and Karl Rove told him to knock it off. Naturally, he did not.

Finally, his taunting and the questions of television correspondents obliging Mr. Trump got on the president's nerves. Mr. Obama was tactically smart to release the certificate and marginalize those who continue to keep the matter alive. It is tragic that American politics is fueled by such poisonous fire. Mr. Trump quickly moved on to a new fixation, questioning Mr. Obama's academic credentials. Mr. Boehner, and other party leaders, have a new reason to call a halt to the politics of paranoia and intolerance.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:58:17 PM
So were moving swiftly along then are we?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2011, 03:59:46 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 11:07:31 PM
Quoteso he was probably right to release it at this stage.
He had no choice but release it... have you seen the poll numbers as to the questioning his
eligibility for office owing to the fact that he has went to such lengths, not to mention cost, to conceal most all of his past :o

The Wing Nut Daily costs?

And yes, I've seen the poll numbers among Republicans. More than 50% apparently, no doubt including the same people who make the Republican party the idealogical home of homophobia, creationism, anti-intellectualism etc. No wonder the likes of Boenher are terrified of coming out and telling their people to get a grip.

Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 11:07:31 PM
Quotebut I doubt if he gives a f**k about what they think anyway as nothing he can ever do will be greeted by anything other than irrational hatred on their part.

That's quite a strong word there... He's absolutely everything I said he would be, a
complete fecking disaster and the country has finally woken up to it, well most of it, your good self excluded
of course  :-X
Pray tell you're not not still buying or waiting on the Hope and Change thing are ye  ???

It seems a pretty defensible word to me. They're already moving on to other "controversies", whether its the "fraudulency" of this particular birth cert, or the academic records or whatever. If he releases his transcripts tomorrow, it will on to something else. As Swift said "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into". Obama would be wise to heed him. Any reasonable person would have been satisfied with the short form cert, and if not that, then at least the testimony from the governor of Hawaii at the time.

As for the assessment of Obama's performance, we'll see in 18 months. There's plenty I'm not happy about with respect to him, but even if only for the simple fact that he offers a counter to the Republicans (which is not to say that THEY'RE not right about SOME of what they're trying to do), I'm still happy that he's president. And given what's currently putting out feelers for the Republican nomination, at this point he can rest fairly assured I'll turn out for him for polling day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2011, 04:03:24 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: hsthompson on April 28, 2011, 03:37:06 PM
TO - do you genuinely think Obama wasn't born in the US? Do you think Trump would be a better man for the job?
No and no..but fair play to Trump making him come out and show it
in two weeks what we the people couldn't do in 2 1/2 years!

"We the people"...

You're really taking this tea party stuff to heart, aren't you!  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 28, 2011, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:52:19 PM
Sure throw up Obama's school records and I'll post Bush's and we'll go from there
...oops, that's right, Obama's can't be found, wonder why?

TO,
c'mon now we have our back and forth on the US politics thread, but are you seriously suggesting that the President of the United States didnt go to Harvard Law, didn't graduate magna cum laude and wasn't the president of the Harvard Law review?


What next, he's actually an alien?

I'm in favour of having a mandatory public IQ test before anyone gets to speak in a candidates' debate and whenever they speak their IQ should come up on the screen.

(edit- I have the typing skills of a goose)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 05:29:42 PM
QuoteWe the people"... You're really taking this tea party stuff to heart, aren't you!
If you weren't blinded by blinkered ignorance you'd realize
That it was in reference to our Constitution and nothing at all to do with the
Tea party...though I must say, I'm hardly surprised that you would
angle it as a cheap shot  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2011, 06:09:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 05:29:42 PM
QuoteWe the people"... You're really taking this tea party stuff to heart, aren't you!
If you weren't blinded by blinkered ignorance you'd realize
That it was in reference to our Constitution and nothing at all to do with the
Tea party...though I must say, I'm hardly surprised that you would
angle it as a cheap shot  ::)

Ooohhh! :-)

I'm well aware of its constitutional provenance.

And I'm pretty sure you're well aware that it features very prominently in the language of the tea party. Or perhaps you just completely independently use it in the same rhetorical fashion that they do.

Either way, it sounds ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 06:27:55 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: dec on April 27, 2011, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Had he shown it from the get go like he was supposed to instead of spending
an astronomical amount of money to conceal his secretive past,
The birthers would never have gotten of the ground  ;)

You underestimate the birthers. They wouldn't be deterred by something as trivial as evidence.
Sure these were the same goons who ceaselessly assured us that GW Bush could read!
No, you're confusing him with Obama...Bush didn't read from a teleprompter  :P

Shucks, I must have 'misunderestimated' him!  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 28, 2011, 06:31:10 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
No, you're confusing him with Obama...Bush didn't read from a teleprompter  :P

(http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2004/10/06/1097069659_7708.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2011, 06:09:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 05:29:42 PM
QuoteWe the people"... You're really taking this tea party stuff to heart, aren't you!
If you weren't blinded by blinkered ignorance you'd realize
That it was in reference to our Constitution and nothing at all to do with the
Tea party...though I must say, I'm hardly surprised that you would
angle it as a cheap shot  ::)

Ooohhh! :-)

I'm well aware of its constitutional provenance.

And I'm pretty sure you're well aware that it features very prominently in the language of the tea party. Or perhaps you just completely independently use it in the same rhetorical fashion that they do.

Either way, it sounds ridiculous.
No just in the same fashion in which it was intended by the founding fathers and not loosely interpreted in a way that best suits the agenda of the day!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 09:03:44 PM
Quote from: dec on April 28, 2011, 06:31:10 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
No, you're confusing him with Obama...Bush didn't read from a teleprompter  :P

(http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2004/10/06/1097069659_7708.jpg)
;D If I was trying to be taken literally ye would run a mile from it
Rarely used a teleprompter :P

Anyway I'd say very few have noticed that ye have dragged this off  topic, its either bring bush into it or its that we're all racists  ::)
So again, why is Obama so secretive about his past? Its not a trick question lads  :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 09:06:18 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 06:27:55 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: dec on April 27, 2011, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Had he shown it from the get go like he was supposed to instead of spending
an astronomical amount of money to conceal his secretive past,
The birthers would never have gotten of the ground  ;)

You underestimate the birthers. They wouldn't be deterred by something as trivial as evidence.
Sure these were the same goons who ceaselessly assured us that GW Bush could read!
No, you're confusing him with Obama...Bush didn't read from a teleprompter  :P

Shucks, I must have 'misunderestimated' him!  :D
Clearly!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 28, 2011, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 09:03:44 PM
So again, why is Obama so secretive about his past?

He's not. His birth certificate was released in 2008 but the crazies didn't believe what was on it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2011, 09:30:19 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 09:03:44 PM
Quote from: dec on April 28, 2011, 06:31:10 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
No, you're confusing him with Obama...Bush didn't read from a teleprompter  :P

(http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2004/10/06/1097069659_7708.jpg)
;D If I was trying to be taken literally ye would run a mile from it
Rarely used a teleprompter :P

Anyway I'd say very few have noticed that ye have dragged this off  topic, its either bring bush into it or its that we're all racists  ::)
So again, why is Obama so secretive about his past? Its not a trick question lads  :-X

Go on... you're dying to tell us!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on April 28, 2011, 09:44:03 PM
Jesus Christ Tyrones own, what is going on there ???  What exactly is your problem with Comrade Obama?  What do you think he's hiding?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 09:55:07 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 09:06:18 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 06:27:55 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: dec on April 27, 2011, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 27, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Had he shown it from the get go like he was supposed to instead of spending
an astronomical amount of money to conceal his secretive past,
The birthers would never have gotten of the ground  ;)

You underestimate the birthers. They wouldn't be deterred by something as trivial as evidence.
Sure these were the same goons who ceaselessly assured us that GW Bush could read!
No, you're confusing him with Obama...Bush didn't read from a teleprompter  :P

Shucks, I must have 'misunderestimated' him!  :D
Clearly!

So what does that word 'misunderestimate' mean then? (I'd like to know what I said myself!  :D )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 09:57:49 PM
Ah the auld answering questions with questions trick ;)
Ye realize ye are making my point for me here...right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2011, 10:15:24 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 09:57:49 PM
Ah the auld answering questions with questions trick ;)
Ye realize ye are making my point for me here...right?

That's funny... I was actually trying to see if YOU would show your hand for once. Putting a positive opinion on the table leaves it open to analysis, whereas as your modus operandi is to point out the negative of the opposition all the time nad keep your opponent on the defensive. We don't see you waxing lyrical about the Republicans or right wing much, now do we?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 10:33:14 PM
 :D Feck it I rest my case...ye wouldn't see it on
a primary school play ground!

Ye obviously know as much about him as I and most
everybody else and that's fcuk all!
Thanks anyway for inadvertently clearing that up  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 28, 2011, 10:36:22 PM
what do you want to know that you dont TO??? what type of cake he had for his 7th birthday???

or are you finished engaging with people on this subject after your self delcared victory  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 10:49:20 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 28, 2011, 10:36:22 PM
what do you want to know that you dont TO??? what type of cake he had for his 7th birthday???

or are you finished engaging with people on this subject after your self delcared victory  ::)
Instead of rolling your eyes... answer the question,;
Why is he so secretive of his past ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 28, 2011, 10:56:15 PM
now who is answering a question with a question ???

I dont find him secretive about his past.... So what is that you want to know  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 28, 2011, 11:17:22 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 28, 2011, 10:56:15 PM
I dont find him secretive about his past.... So what is that you want to know  ::)

Typical tea-party/birther/GOP/etc. tactic: repeat something baseless often enough, and it'll stick (they hope) *.

* Will he [TO] ever answer your question?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 29, 2011, 12:24:34 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 10:49:20 PM
Instead of rolling your eyes... answer the question,;
Why is he so secretive of his past ???

He isn't, it is just that the crazies don't like the answers. He published his birth certificate back in 2008 and the birthers didn't like what it said so they hoped bizarrely that the archived long version would say something different. And amazingly it didn't. But that won't stop the conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mannix on April 29, 2011, 01:41:06 AM
Good man barrack, don't mind that crowd in Offaly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2011, 02:00:55 AM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2011, 12:24:34 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 10:49:20 PM
Instead of rolling your eyes... answer the question,;
Why is he so secretive of his past ???

He isn't, it is just that the crazies don't like the answers. He published his birth certificate back in 2008 and the birthers didn't like what it said so they hoped bizarrely that the archived long version would say something different. And amazingly it didn't. But that won't stop the conspiracy theories.

It never does. They just take the debunking in their stride, pretend it never happened, and say, "well what about this one then??" Whether its 9/11 truthers, creationists, holocaust deniers or whatever, the conspiracy theorist is always the same. He never has to acknowledge that he was mistaken. You'd think they'd be just a little embarrassed that the birth cert showed none of the "he's a muslim" or "he was born in Kenya" shit they've been foaming at the mouth about for the past two years. And it doesn't matter that Obama graduated in the top 10% of his Harvard Law class - no public transcripts mean that there was a fix in there somewhere, despite the slap in the face that they just got from the long-form birth cert. These morons WANT to believe that there is something illegitimate about him, so if its not this, then they hold out that it is something else. It was the same with Clinton and the Vince Foster "murder" etc. And the likes of Limbaugh and his imitators have made careers out of stoking and fomenting these idiots. Is no coincidence that Trump is using this method either. I doubt if he seriously believes a word of the shit he is spewing. All he cares about is the news coverage he can garner by hooking the gullible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2011, 02:49:32 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2011, 06:09:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 05:29:42 PM
QuoteWe the people"... You're really taking this tea party stuff to heart, aren't you!
If you weren't blinded by blinkered ignorance you'd realize
That it was in reference to our Constitution and nothing at all to do with the
Tea party...though I must say, I'm hardly surprised that you would
angle it as a cheap shot  ::)

Ooohhh! :-)

I'm well aware of its constitutional provenance.

And I'm pretty sure you're well aware that it features very prominently in the language of the tea party. Or perhaps you just completely independently use it in the same rhetorical fashion that they do.

Either way, it sounds ridiculous.
No just in the same fashion in which it was intended by the founding fathers and not loosely interpreted in a way that best suits the agenda of the day!

Founding fathers!! I'm getting all misty eyed now... somewhere, someone is humming "America the Beautiful!"

Whatever your motivation (even if I was under the impression that the tea party were supposedly hugely concerned with originalism and constitutional limits), it still sounds ridiculous, especially on a GAA internet forum populated almost exclusively by Irish people.

But each to their own.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2011, 02:54:42 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 10:33:14 PM
:D Feck it I rest my case...ye wouldn't see it on
a primary school play ground!

Ye obviously know as much about him as I and most
everybody else and that's fcuk all!
Thanks anyway for inadvertently clearing that up  ;D

Oh, so you DON'T know why he hasn't released the transcripts. No doubt your suspicions are very grave though! The birth cert really did prove that he has something to hide!

If I was less familiar with your internet persona, I would swear you had to be taking the piss with this nonsense! Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure that you aren't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on April 29, 2011, 10:57:17 AM
Now now J70....you will have him in tears :D

(http://www.gonzotimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/glenn-beck.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 29, 2011, 03:44:52 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on April 28, 2011, 03:30:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 28, 2011, 12:26:58 AM
He shouldn't have bothered. The only reason someone could think that Obama was not born in Hawaii even before today is that they didn't want a black person in the White House, unless they were there to shine whitey's shoes, and this isn't going to change that state of affairs
Agh true to form...when the back is against the wall for any multitude of
reasons, bring on the race card.
Ignorance in spectacular form  ::)

Just telling it like it is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on April 30, 2011, 01:19:15 AM
(http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00601/cartoon290411_601538a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2011, 03:08:28 AM
This one's been around a while, but still funny!  ;D

Afterbirthers Demand To See Obama's Placenta

August 27, 2009 | ISSUE 45•35

WASHINGTON–In the continuing controversy surrounding the president's U.S. citizenship, a new fringe group informally known as "Afterbirthers" demanded Monday the authentication of Barack Obama's placenta from his time inside his mother's womb. "All we are asking is that the president produce a sample of his fetal membranes and vessels—preferably along with a photo of the crowning and delivery—and this will all be over," said former presidential candidate and Afterbirthers spokesman Alan Keyes, later adding that his organization would be willing to settle for a half-liter of maternal cord plasma. "To this day, the American people have not seen a cervical mucus plug, let alone one that has been signed and notarized by a state-certified Hawaiian health official. If the president was indeed born in the manner in which he claims, then where is his gestation sac?" Keyes said that if Obama did not soon produce at least a bloody bedsheet from his conception, Afterbirthers would push forward with efforts to exhume the president's deceased mother and inspect the corpse's pelvic bone and birth canal.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/afterbirthers-demand-to-see-obamas-placenta,6866/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/afterbirthers-demand-to-see-obamas-placenta,6866/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on April 30, 2011, 03:59:38 AM
I demand to see Obama's emancipation papers, I think I still own him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 02, 2011, 03:43:24 AM
Obama to address the nation in the next few minutes, supposedly big news, lots of tweeting about bin Laden and CBS news also saying it is about bin Laden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 02, 2011, 03:50:28 AM
Yeah - he's dead apparently
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 02, 2011, 05:09:17 AM
i was glad to hear that Bin Laden died today as I think it makes the world a safer place for the next 5/6 years- in that odds are there will still be a democrat in the white house...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on May 16, 2011, 04:32:48 PM
Decision time not too far away......

http://2012.republican-candidates.org/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 13, 2011, 07:28:18 PM
Maggie Thatcher- not all bad:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/09/margaret-thatcher-sarah-palin-meeting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on June 21, 2011, 04:40:41 AM
John Stewart on Fox
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1007046245001/exclusive-jon-stewart-on-fox-news-sunday/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 08, 2011, 11:06:30 PM
How bout those job figures the day lads... to label him an empty suit would be
a spectacular understatement  :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on July 09, 2011, 03:12:24 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 08, 2011, 11:06:30 PM
How bout those job figures the day lads... to label him an empty suit would be
a spectacular understatement  :-[

The smugness of your comment is despicable and obnoxious in that it implies that Obama is responsible for the unemployment figures when in fact the unemployment is due to a busted economy that was busted by the previous administration - They took the bigest surplus in living memory and turned it into the biggest deficit in living memory - Brattleboro Vermont has an outstanding arrest warrant for George W Bush and Dick Cheney and I hope some day that they get to serve the warrants
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2011, 05:16:56 AM
It's gonna take the best part of a decade to clean up the mess made by Cheney and that Bush puppet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2011, 05:19:44 AM
Saw a good bumper sticker the other day:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--7X543u1oLQ/TaRSPtRwuII/AAAAAAAAABs/kZ15VhSJAoY/s1600/getoverit.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 09, 2011, 05:54:14 AM
(http://media.economist.com/images/images-magazine/2011/07/09/ld/20110709_ldc933.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 11, 2011, 03:50:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2011, 05:16:56 AM
It's gonna take the best part of a decade to clean up the mess made by Cheney and that Bush puppet.
A government that robs Peter to pay Paul
can always depend on the support of Paul!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 11, 2011, 04:59:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 08, 2011, 11:06:30 PM
How bout those job figures the day lads... to label him an empty suit would be
a spectacular understatement  :-[

Jaysis TO a little context:
Thats like: how about that Gay marriage thing in NY?
Roe vs Wade too, where's that repeal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 11, 2011, 05:18:47 PM
The silence is deafening here from the kool aid drinkers...
This fraud is an absolute f**king joke and was never going to be
anything else yet numbers like these can come out month after month
Quarter after quarter and not a peep,
well, except to blame Bush  ::) yawn.
Like the bumper sticker says..
"Are we any better off than we were 4 trillion dollars ago"
And no sign of recovery or an end to this ridiculous spending.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 11, 2011, 05:23:06 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 11, 2011, 05:18:47 PM
The silence is deafening here from the kool aid drinkers...
This fraud is an absolute f**king joke and was never going to be
anything else yet numbers like these can come out month after month
Quarter after quarter and not a peep,
well, except to blame Bush  ::) yawn.
Like the bumper sticker says..
"Are we any better off than we were 4 trillion dollars ago"
And no sign of recovery or an end to this ridiculous spending.

I don't remember you whinging when Bush ran up a debt greater than the total of ALL of his predecessors ADDED TOGETHER.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 11, 2011, 05:36:03 PM
Unemployment was no where near 9.2% with his war debt, wars
that we're still in by the way...not only that but have added to  :-X
and what's your take on the fact that Obama is on target to dwarf
all that came before him INCLUDING Bush and look at the state
of the economy...we're losing our credit rating and even talking about
defaulting unless we raise the debt ceiling ::) But hey, we can spend our
way out of this...right  >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 11, 2011, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 11, 2011, 05:36:03 PM
Unemployment was no where near 9.2% with his war debt, wars
that we're still in by the way...not only that but have added to  :-X
and what's your take on the fact that Obama is on target to dwarf
all that came before him INCLUDING Bush and look at the state
of the economy...we're losing our credit rating and even talking about
defaulting unless we raise the debt ceiling ::) But hey, we can spend our
way out of this...right  >:(

Yes Obama has added to it. The Paulson bailout committed him to some of that, the wars that Bush started added to it too and yes some of it was his own doing. Clinton had balanced the books so Bush started with a clean slate. He didn't return the favour.

The credit rating is under threat as the Republicans gamble the world economy on the debt ceiling vote just as they did with Paulson's bailout. Even the French & Germans haven't done anything quite that stupid.

Part of me hopes the Republicans trigger the default that the markets daren't even consider. Armageddon, contagion etc aren't big enough words for what would follow. Or the Republicans will probably bottle it and  vote it in the second time and go out with a whimper, again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 11, 2011, 06:14:27 PM
QuotePart of me hopes the Republicans trigger the default that the markets daren't even consider.
Same as that...this shit has to stop, 14.3 trillion clearly isn't enough
debt for these idiots, gives credence actually to the theorists out there
who think this is intentional...Cloward and Piven anyone?
QuoteRepublicans will probably bottle it and vote it in the second time and go out with a whimper, again.
Probably  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 26, 2011, 07:31:06 PM
Beck strikes again:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norwegian-dead-hitler

Glenn Beck, the rightwing US broadcaster and Tea Party favourite, has compared those who were massacred on the Norwegian island of Utøya to the Nazi party's youth wing.

"There was a shooting at a political camp, which sounds a little like the Hitler youth, or, whatever. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics. Disturbing," said Beck on his syndicated radio show.

The comments were condemned by Torbjørn Eriksen, a former press secretary to Jens Stoltenberg, Norway's prime minister.

Eriksen described the comment as "a new low" for Beck, telling the Daily Telegraph: "Young political activists have gathered at Utøya for over 60 years to learn about and be part of democracy, the very opposite of what the Hitler Youth was about. Glenn Beck's comments are ignorant, incorrect and extremely hurtful."

Sagging ratings, a string of damaging remarks and an exodus of advertisers combined earlier this year to end Beck's tenure on the US cable network Fox News.

A campaign to pressure advertisers to boycott the pundit's daily slot had been gathering pace, while Beck was embroiled in battles erupting from his frequently aired conspiracy theories involving individuals ranging from the financier George Soros to Barack Obama.

His denunciation of Soros included reference to his wartime childhood in Hungary. In remarks that were decried as "monstrous" by Jewish groups, the broadcaster claimed: "Here's a Jewish boy helping send the Jews to the death camps."

However, his latest comments about the "disturbing" nature of political youth camps may come as a surprise to Beck's followers in the Tea Party movement.

The anti-tax, anti-immigration movement has been holding summer camps in states including Florida and Missouri where children have been taught a curriculum based on God, the US constitution and "the defence of economic liberty".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 30, 2011, 06:52:33 PM

     
    Yet another example of the media drinking the cool-aid ....unbelievable
     
     

         
        Obama's father served in WW II, really?
        Of all the things I've seen or heard about Obama on the internet, NONE has hit me like this!! How can we not believe some of the charges about 
        citizenship, religion, etc., after hearing what he says on this?
        Obama said his father served in WW II? Barack's father served in WW II?
        He said so in a speech.. Here is an 18 second video:
       
CNN News clip:     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv4jnlkxOaw

     Is he a compulsive liar? Were there no reporters who checked or double checked these statements and called the party on this? They did for everyone else.   
       Why not him?
        Like it or not, here are the facts:
        Barack Hussein Obama Sr. (Obama's father) Born: 4/4/36 Died: 11/24/82 at the age of 46. He was 5 years old when WW II started, and less than 9 1/2
        yrs  old when it  ended.   
         
        Lolo Soetoro (Obama's step father) Born: January 2,1935 Died: 3/2/87 at the age of 52.
        He was 6 years old when WW II started, and 10 years old when it ended. He must have been the youngest Veteran in the war.
       And the media doesn't say anything. If you doubt it, Google both of these guys.

        It appears this guy doesn't know how to tell the truth -- or he doesn't care about telling the truth! -- or perhaps he doesn't know when he isn't telling the
        truth (which is also a very scary angle). Talk about STOLEN HONOR!!!
        Had this been Bush, the Media would still be on this!   ::)

        The CNN clip of Obama is surprising. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this lie wasn't uncovered, questioned or debated before the Nov. 2008 election.
        Oh well, He must have just "forgotten" the facts, again. Or perhaps he really doesn't even know the difference between truth and fabrication?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on July 30, 2011, 07:14:34 PM
you should be more concerned about tea party politicians that have hijacked the republican party and are, basically, terrorizing any republican that has anything resembling moderate views.  Nothing will get solved without compromize. There has been enough political grandstanding.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 30, 2011, 07:47:39 PM
They were voted in to office in Nov on the strength of stopping the runaway ridiculous
spending, they're simply being held to their promises.
Lets be under no illusion... the grandstanding we're witnessing is nothing more than the Democrats
or more importantly Obummer searching for an angle to shake the blame for the result when the shite ultimately
hits the fan in failure, much like the rest of his presidency  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: redandblack4ever on July 30, 2011, 09:52:13 PM
Tyrone's Own: I'm positive Obama mis-spoke there. He probably meant his grandfather who raised him. The grandfather was part of Patton's army that marched across Europe. Not that it will make any difference to you...

Mrs. redandblack4ever
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2011, 03:39:08 AM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on July 30, 2011, 09:52:13 PM
Tyrone's Own: I'm positive Obama mis-spoke there. He probably meant his grandfather who raised him. The grandfather was part of Patton's army that marched across Europe. Not that it will make any difference to you...

Mrs. redandblack4ever

Snopes has a piece on this "outrage" going back a year!  :D

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/service.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/service.asp)

It is about time we got back to the birth cert stuff though!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on July 31, 2011, 10:30:41 AM
When it comes to the faces in US politics I am starting to feel that this face:

(http://www.aynrand.org/images/content/pagebuilder/32257.jpg)

is the most important but mostly unseen face for the last 30 years.

Little over a year ago I'd never heard of her and now I see her influence in the philosophy of a lot of politicians on both sides of the house but mostly on the right, which is unusual because her being an atheist and most conservatives like to boast about their Christian credentials.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on July 31, 2011, 10:49:39 AM
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March  2006


Obama the candidate or Obama the President. Who would you vote for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2011, 02:17:01 PM
Quote from: thejuice on July 31, 2011, 10:49:39 AM
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March  2006


Obama the candidate or Obama the President. Who would you vote for?

A politician making a political statement/vote. He's had to admit as much himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 31, 2011, 03:13:02 PM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on July 30, 2011, 09:52:13 PM
Tyrone's Own: I'm positive Obama mis-spoke there. He probably meant his grandfather who raised him. The grandfather was part of Patton's army that marched across Europe. Not that it will make any difference to you...

Mrs. redandblack4ever
Mis-spoke :D the liberal hate machine had a different word
for that up until 2009 ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on July 31, 2011, 03:15:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2011, 02:17:01 PM
Quote from: thejuice on July 31, 2011, 10:49:39 AM
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March  2006


Obama the candidate or Obama the President. Who would you vote for?

A politician making a political statement/vote. He's had to admit as much himself.
Maybe he just mis-spoke :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 31, 2011, 04:15:33 PM
TO, with such strong conservative views, what what Irish political party would you most closely align yourself?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 03:15:40 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2011, 02:17:01 PM
Quote from: thejuice on July 31, 2011, 10:49:39 AM
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March  2006


Obama the candidate or Obama the President. Who would you vote for?

A politician making a political statement/vote. He's had to admit as much himself.
Absolutely pathetic...quite simply incapable of finding fault with this inept clown
Can i suggest that you defenders of all things liberal read
back carefully over the above and explain exactly which
part of his speech wasn't absolutely spot on and is as
accurate today as it was 5 years ago.
Then explore the reasoning as to why you're so blinkered to the cause
that ye simply cannot bring yourselves
to call a spade a spade, and admit its clear and absolutely necessary to cut runaway spending :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 01, 2011, 04:23:02 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 03:15:40 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2011, 02:17:01 PM
Quote from: thejuice on July 31, 2011, 10:49:39 AM
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March  2006


Obama the candidate or Obama the President. Who would you vote for?

A politician making a political statement/vote. He's had to admit as much himself.
Absolutely pathetic...quite simply incapable of finding fault with this inept clown
Can i suggest that you defenders of all things liberal read
back carefully over the above and explain exactly which
part of his speech wasn't absolutely spot on and is as
accurate today as it was 5 years ago.
Then explore the reasoning as to why you're so blinkered to the cause
that ye simply cannot bring yourselves
to call a spade a spade, and admit its clear and absolutely necessary to cut runaway spending :-X

Once again TO you attack me based on some right wing caricature of what I apparently personify. If and when you're mature enough to discuss matters in a respectful manner, I'll give it a shot, time permitting. Until then, I've better things to do. No doubt you'll interpret this as a little victory. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back (again) for that.

But just to be clear, as you plainly see all kinds of hidden meanings and evil agendas behind the most innocuous of statements that come from anyone who does not share you're political opinion: I doubt if a single person other than yourself could interpret what I said there as being defensive of Obama. He said his previous vote against it was politically motivated. To point that out could only be interpreted as an indictment of Obama. But you're so f**king demented and irrational in your dislike of him, me or anyone else who is not an arch conservative that you can't even countenance that. And the shit you posted before about the father in the war was embarrassing in its levels of vitriolic hyperbole.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 05:00:35 AM
So you do agree then that we need to back down from raising the debt ceiling
in an attempt to curb the ridiculous spending  :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 01, 2011, 02:47:22 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 05:00:35 AM
So you do agree then that we need to back down from raising the debt ceiling
in an attempt to curb the ridiculous spending  :-\

No. Default is not an option. Future deficit spending is a separate issue which, yes, must be addressed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2011, 02:47:22 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 05:00:35 AM
So you do agree then that we need to back down from raising the debt ceiling
in an attempt to curb the ridiculous spending  :-\

No. Default is not an option. Future deficit spending is a separate issue which, yes, must be addressed.
You are indeed correct, default is not an option cause its only scare tactics
from the empty suit Obama.
There is more than enough revenue to pay the principle and interest
on our debt along with social security, medicare and our military's wages ::)
Drink up J  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 01, 2011, 04:23:04 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2011, 02:47:22 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 05:00:35 AM
So you do agree then that we need to back down from raising the debt ceiling
in an attempt to curb the ridiculous spending  :-\

No. Default is not an option. Future deficit spending is a separate issue which, yes, must be addressed.
You are indeed correct, default is not an option cause its only scare tactics
from the empty suit Obama.
There is more than enough revenue to pay the principle and interest
on our debt along with social security, medicare and our military's wages ::)
Drink up J  ;)

Another one of Obama's treacherous schemes to undermine the power and might of the US no doubt.

Right you are TO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 04:28:51 PM
No, simply to scare the sheep!
And Thank You.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 01, 2011, 05:47:54 PM
C'mon TO.  With what Irish political faction would a person with such strong American  political opinions like you most lkely affiliate him or herself?  For what, in particular, are you waving the tricolour?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 01, 2011, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 01, 2011, 05:47:54 PM
C'mon TO.  With what Irish political faction would a person with such strong American  political opinions like you most lkely affiliate him or herself?  For what, in particular, are you waving the tricolour?
You might want to wait til that grass gets a wee bit longer
and try again  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Orangemac on August 02, 2011, 12:35:33 AM
Although not completely up to speed on the subject of US politics is it fair to say Obama has been a bit of a let down since coming to power. He was never going to be what he had promised pre election but he seems to try too hard to be all things to all people.

He is not helped by being hamstrung by the Republicans holding the balance of power and the economic crisis has been brewing for the last 10/15 years but he seems to have made no significant impact (bar taking out Bin Laden) which will not put food on anyones table.

Having said that hopefully he can stablise things in the next year and there doesn't seem to be anyone on the Repblican side emerging as a front runner that can take votes from the centre or left next year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 02, 2011, 03:25:20 AM
I have to take my hat of to the tea party here, they took a complete and utter non issue politically here and hyped it so much that they used it as a rod to beat the democrats into pushing legislation through which is absolutely detrimental to the economy of the US. Not a single tax increase anywhere, just a cut on spending to placate those idiots that think reducing spending is the way to get out of a financial crisis.

The credit default that was warned of will be avoided, but the fact that the tea party had the wherewithal to manipulate the entire political system and to put the US economy at risk, is sufficient for the credit agencies to realize that if can happen, and that the US should be downgraded on that basis alone.

Not only this but the tea party has used a non issue to influence the entire US political system. The economic policies of the last 8 years are home to roost and the idiots in the Democratic party seem content to let them happen on their watch.

I despair...

Nobel Prize Winner for Economics Paul Krugman in todays New York Times :
QuoteThe President Surrenders
By PAUL KRUGMAN


A deal to raise the federal debt ceiling is in the works. If it goes through, many commentators will declare that disaster was avoided. But they will be wrong.

For the deal itself, given the available information, is a disaster, and not just for President Obama and his party. It will damage an already depressed economy; it will probably make America's long-run deficit problem worse, not better; and most important, by demonstrating that raw extortion works and carries no political cost, it will take America a long way down the road to banana-republic status.

Start with the economics. We currently have a deeply depressed economy. We will almost certainly continue to have a depressed economy all through next year. And we will probably have a depressed economy through 2013 as well, if not beyond.

The worst thing you can do in these circumstances is slash government spending, since that will depress the economy even further. Pay no attention to those who invoke the confidence fairy, claiming that tough action on the budget will reassure businesses and consumers, leading them to spend more. It doesn't work that way, a fact confirmed by many studies of the historical record.

Indeed, slashing spending while the economy is depressed won't even help the budget situation much, and might well make it worse. On one side, interest rates on federal borrowing are currently very low, so spending cuts now will do little to reduce future interest costs. On the other side, making the economy weaker now will also hurt its long-run prospects, which will in turn reduce future revenue. So those demanding spending cuts now are like medieval doctors who treated the sick by bleeding them, and thereby made them even sicker.

And then there are the reported terms of the deal, which amount to an abject surrender on the part of the president. First, there will be big spending cuts, with no increase in revenue. Then a panel will make recommendations for further deficit reduction — and if these recommendations aren't accepted, there will be more spending cuts.

Republicans will supposedly have an incentive to make concessions the next time around, because defense spending will be among the areas cut. But the G.O.P. has just demonstrated its willingness to risk financial collapse unless it gets everything its most extreme members want. Why expect it to be more reasonable in the next round?

In fact, Republicans will surely be emboldened by the way Mr. Obama keeps folding in the face of their threats. He surrendered last December, extending all the Bush tax cuts; he surrendered in the spring when they threatened to shut down the government; and he has now surrendered on a grand scale to raw extortion over the debt ceiling. Maybe it's just me, but I see a pattern here.

Did the president have any alternative this time around? Yes.

First of all, he could and should have demanded an increase in the debt ceiling back in December. When asked why he didn't, he replied that he was sure that Republicans would act responsibly. Great call.

And even now, the Obama administration could have resorted to legal maneuvering to sidestep the debt ceiling, using any of several options. In ordinary circumstances, this might have been an extreme step. But faced with the reality of what is happening, namely raw extortion on the part of a party that, after all, only controls one house of Congress, it would have been totally justifiable.

At the very least, Mr. Obama could have used the possibility of a legal end run to strengthen his bargaining position. Instead, however, he ruled all such options out from the beginning.

But wouldn't taking a tough stance have worried markets? Probably not. In fact, if I were an investor I would be reassured, not dismayed, by a demonstration that the president is willing and able to stand up to blackmail on the part of right-wing extremists. Instead, he has chosen to demonstrate the opposite.

Make no mistake about it, what we're witnessing here is a catastrophe on multiple levels.

It is, of course, a political catastrophe for Democrats, who just a few weeks ago seemed to have Republicans on the run over their plan to dismantle Medicare; now Mr. Obama has thrown all that away. And the damage isn't over: there will be more choke points where Republicans can threaten to create a crisis unless the president surrenders, and they can now act with the confident expectation that he will.

In the long run, however, Democrats won't be the only losers. What Republicans have just gotten away with calls our whole system of government into question. After all, how can American democracy work if whichever party is most prepared to be ruthless, to threaten the nation's economic security, gets to dictate policy? And the answer is, maybe it can't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 02, 2011, 06:34:19 AM


Nobel Prize Winner for Economics Paul Krugman in todays New York Times :
QuoteThe President Surrenders
By PAUL KRUGMAN


A deal to raise the federal debt ceiling is in the works. If it goes through, many commentators will declare that disaster was avoided. But they will be wrong.

For the deal itself, given the available information, is a disaster, and not just for President Obama and his party. It will damage an already depressed economy; it will probably make America's long-run deficit problem worse, not better; and most important, by demonstrating that raw extortion works and carries no political cost, it will take America a long way down the road to banana-republic status.

Start with the economics. We currently have a deeply depressed economy. We will almost certainly continue to have a depressed economy all through next year. And we will probably have a depressed economy through 2013 as well, if not beyond.

The worst thing you can do in these circumstances is slash government spending, since that will depress the economy even further. Pay no attention to those who invoke the confidence fairy, claiming that tough action on the budget will reassure businesses and consumers, leading them to spend more. It doesn't work that way, a fact confirmed by many studies of the historical record.

Indeed, slashing spending while the economy is depressed won't even help the budget situation much, and might well make it worse. On one side, interest rates on federal borrowing are currently very low, so spending cuts now will do little to reduce future interest costs. On the other side, making the economy weaker now will also hurt its long-run prospects, which will in turn reduce future revenue. So those demanding spending cuts now are like medieval doctors who treated the sick by bleeding them, and thereby made them even sicker.

And then there are the reported terms of the deal, which amount to an abject surrender on the part of the president. First, there will be big spending cuts, with no increase in revenue. Then a panel will make recommendations for further deficit reduction — and if these recommendations aren't accepted, there will be more spending cuts.

Republicans will supposedly have an incentive to make concessions the next time around, because defense spending will be among the areas cut. But the G.O.P. has just demonstrated its willingness to risk financial collapse unless it gets everything its most extreme members want. Why expect it to be more reasonable in the next round?

In fact, Republicans will surely be emboldened by the way Mr. Obama keeps folding in the face of their threats. He surrendered last December, extending all the Bush tax cuts; he surrendered in the spring when they threatened to shut down the government; and he has now surrendered on a grand scale to raw extortion over the debt ceiling. Maybe it's just me, but I see a pattern here.

Did the president have any alternative this time around? Yes.

First of all, he could and should have demanded an increase in the debt ceiling back in December. When asked why he didn't, he replied that he was sure that Republicans would act responsibly. Great call.

And even now, the Obama administration could have resorted to legal maneuvering to sidestep the debt ceiling, using any of several options. In ordinary circumstances, this might have been an extreme step. But faced with the reality of what is happening, namely raw extortion on the part of a party that, after all, only controls one house of Congress, it would have been totally justifiable.

At the very least, Mr. Obama could have used the possibility of a legal end run to strengthen his bargaining position. Instead, however, he ruled all such options out from the beginning.

But wouldn't taking a tough stance have worried markets? Probably not. In fact, if I were an investor I would be reassured, not dismayed, by a demonstration that the president is willing and able to stand up to blackmail on the part of right-wing extremists. Instead, he has chosen to demonstrate the opposite.

Make no mistake about it, what we're witnessing here is a catastrophe on multiple levels.

It is, of course, a political catastrophe for Democrats, who just a few weeks ago seemed to have Republicans on the run over their plan to dismantle Medicare; now Mr. Obama has thrown all that away. And the damage isn't over: there will be more choke points where Republicans can threaten to create a crisis unless the president surrenders, and they can now act with the confident expectation that he will.

In the long run, however, Democrats won't be the only losers. What Republicans have just gotten away with calls our whole system of government into question. After all, how can American democracy work if whichever party is most prepared to be ruthless, to threaten the nation's economic security, gets to dictate policy? And the answer is, maybe it can't.
[/quote]

Not according to Obummers own economic adviser

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0811/brawl_with_paul_68959e5b-7791-4011-a536-5a8d71d9aad8.html

Make up your minds FFS... This is exactly what I said would happen in my post to J70.... the country's economy comes in a distant second in the eyes
of the Democrats to placing the blame squarely on the Tea Party or the Repubs when this ultimately fails, and it will... Don't know where you went to
School HB but as in any household, if you're spending more money than you're bringing in, YOU NEED TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING
you could of course go out and get a third or forth job but oh that's right, there aren't any... Thanks Barrack  ::) Wake up to Fcuk!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 02, 2011, 09:30:52 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 02, 2011, 06:34:19 AM
Don't know where you went to School HB but as in any household, if you're spending more money than you're bringing in, YOU NEED TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING
you could of course go out and get a third or forth job but oh that's right, there aren't any

TO, you are correct, if there is an issues in a household that would be a fairly common sense approach all right, however this isn't a household we're talking about, its the biggest economy in the world and the economics are just a teensy weensy bit more complicated.

Stopping giving a free ride to the richest people in America, and the associated tax income increase. Closing the huge corporate tax loopholes for special interest, huge associated tax increase. Paying a sensible amount of tax at the pump, huge associated tax increase. All those tax increases, and add in the economic benefit of government increased spending and look what we have here- a balanced budget worst case, or heaven forbid even a surplus.

Multiplier effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics)) would show that the increase in government spending domestically would actually strengthen the economy, bring more people back to work and increase the amount of money being spent in the economy.

But I see your point, the tea party would rather run the economy as if it were a household, specifically a born again red neck, god bless america, left school at 16, husband wife and two kids with a white picket fence with an income of 20 grand working for an american car company that wouldn't be in existence if big government hadn't already bailed it out against the tea party's own economic policy. Oh wait, it doesn't have an economic policy that any sane person could actually make work in the united states economy of $14.5 trillion dollars per year, or 20% of the global GDP.

in case i wasn't clear on my point IF YOU CUT BACK ON GOVERNMENT SPENDING YOU ARE FUCKED
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: redandblack4ever on August 02, 2011, 10:50:26 PM
I would like to point out that the Republican majority in the House and Senate from 2001 to 2006 raised the debt ceiling 7 times to fund Bush's unfunded wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the unfunded Medicare Part D program that was nothing but a give away to the pharnaceutical companies and God knows what else...

The hypocrisy of people like John Boehner, Eric Cantor, and Mitch McConnell knows no bounds. TO you talk about runaway spending by Obama. What would you call Bush's efforts in that area? Oh and I deliberately used the word mis-spoke in my response to you. I got used to hearing it during Bush's term in office since it was used so often by his press secretaries or spokesman defending GWB.

Mrs. redandblack4ever
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 02, 2011, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 02, 2011, 06:34:19 AMif you're spending more money than you're bringing in, YOU NEED TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING
or bring in more money
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 12:55:55 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 02, 2011, 09:30:52 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 02, 2011, 06:34:19 AM
Don't know where you went to School HB but as in any household, if you're spending more money than you're bringing in, YOU NEED TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING
you could of course go out and get a third or forth job but oh that's right, there aren't any

TO, you are correct, if there is an issues in a household that would be a fairly common sense approach all right, however this isn't a household we're talking about, its the biggest economy in the world and the economics are just a teensy weensy bit more complicated.

Stopping giving a free ride to the richest people in America, and the associated tax income increase. Closing the huge corporate tax loopholes for special interest, huge associated tax increase. Paying a sensible amount of tax at the pump, huge associated tax increase. All those tax increases, and add in the economic benefit of government increased spending and look what we have here- a balanced budget worst case, or heaven forbid even a surplus.

Multiplier effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics)) would show that the increase in government spending domestically would actually strengthen the economy, bring more people back to work and increase the amount of money being spent in the economy.

But I see your point, the tea party would rather run the economy as if it were a household, specifically a born again red neck, god bless america, left school at 16, husband wife and two kids with a white picket fence with an income of 20 grand working for an american car company that wouldn't be in existence if big government hadn't already bailed it out against the tea party's own economic policy. Oh wait, it doesn't have an economic policy that any sane person could actually make work in the united states economy of $14.5 trillion dollars per year, or 20% of the global GDP.

in case i wasn't clear on my point IF YOU CUT BACK ON GOVERNMENT SPENDING YOU ARE FUCKED

Listen... I don't need any of your elitist condescension or insults for that matter,
let me then put it to you in words you will understand; the great one himself.. I couldn't possibly do any better than this;

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."  :o

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March  2006


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 01:04:51 AM
QuoteTO you talk about runaway spending by Obama. What would you call Bush's efforts in that area?
WTF   :D pray tell you of all people would never be guilty of equating the chosen one with the worst president in living history.....  :o

QuoteOh and I deliberately used the word mis-spoke in my response to you.
No... Let me help you with it dear, as it's clear you have a pretty selective memory, the word was Lie :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 03, 2011, 01:07:23 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 12:55:55 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 02, 2011, 09:30:52 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 02, 2011, 06:34:19 AM
Don't know where you went to School HB but as in any household, if you're spending more money than you're bringing in, YOU NEED TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING
you could of course go out and get a third or forth job but oh that's right, there aren't any

TO, you are correct, if there is an issues in a household that would be a fairly common sense approach all right, however this isn't a household we're talking about, its the biggest economy in the world and the economics are just a teensy weensy bit more complicated.

Stopping giving a free ride to the richest people in America, and the associated tax income increase. Closing the huge corporate tax loopholes for special interest, huge associated tax increase. Paying a sensible amount of tax at the pump, huge associated tax increase. All those tax increases, and add in the economic benefit of government increased spending and look what we have here- a balanced budget worst case, or heaven forbid even a surplus.

Multiplier effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics)) would show that the increase in government spending domestically would actually strengthen the economy, bring more people back to work and increase the amount of money being spent in the economy.

But I see your point, the tea party would rather run the economy as if it were a household, specifically a born again red neck, god bless america, left school at 16, husband wife and two kids with a white picket fence with an income of 20 grand working for an american car company that wouldn't be in existence if big government hadn't already bailed it out against the tea party's own economic policy. Oh wait, it doesn't have an economic policy that any sane person could actually make work in the united states economy of $14.5 trillion dollars per year, or 20% of the global GDP.

in case i wasn't clear on my point IF YOU CUT BACK ON GOVERNMENT SPENDING YOU ARE FUCKED

Listen... I don't need any of your elitist condescension or insults for that matter,
let me then put it to you in words you will understand; the great one himself.. I couldn't possibly do any better than this;

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."  :o

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March  2006

Can you think of anything that happened after 2006 that might have put a drain on the Fed. Anything at all?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 01:13:07 AM
Quote from: dec on August 02, 2011, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 02, 2011, 06:34:19 AMif you're spending more money than you're bringing in, YOU NEED TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING
or bring in more money
The top 50% already pay 97% of taxes Revenue ::) collected... do you want their first born also, this kind of thinking will drive
the wealth out of this country in search of tax havens elsewhere then who are they coming after  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 01:15:22 AM
Quote
Can you think of anything that happened after 2006 that might have put a drain on the Fed. Anything at all?
Actually Yes...Pelosi and Reid took control of the purse strings  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 03, 2011, 02:42:08 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 01:13:07 AM
Quote from: dec on August 02, 2011, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 02, 2011, 06:34:19 AMif you're spending more money than you're bringing in, YOU NEED TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING
or bring in more money
The top 50% already pay 97% of taxes Revenue ::) collected... do you want their first born also, this kind of thinking will drive
the wealth out of this country in search of tax havens elsewhere then who are they coming after  :o

The effective tax rate for the top 50% of americans is 13.7%. Yep thats right less than 14 out of every hundred dollars you make goes on taxes. Anyone not paying US taxes care to comment?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 04:26:32 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 03, 2011, 02:42:08 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 01:13:07 AM
Quote from: dec on August 02, 2011, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 02, 2011, 06:34:19 AMif you're spending more money than you're bringing in, YOU NEED TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING
or bring in more money
The top 50% already pay 97% of taxes Revenue ::) collected... do you want their first born also, this kind of thinking will drive
the wealth out of this country in search of tax havens elsewhere then who are they coming after  :o

The effective tax rate for the top 50% of americans is 13.7%. Yep thats right less than 14 out of every hundred dollars you make goes on taxes. Anyone not paying US taxes care to comment?
Eh...ok, don't know exactly where I fall percentage wise in America but I'm paying a hell of a lot more than that :(
Not sure where you come up with that figure ???

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/whopaysmost.htm
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2011, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 01:04:51 AM

QuoteOh and I deliberately used the word mis-spoke in my response to you.
No... Let me help you with it dear, as it's clear you have a pretty selective memory, the word was Lie :-X

Really? And how do you know that?

You think there is simply no possibility that he misspoke and said "father" instead of "grandfather" when talking about the man who was basically his father for the second half of his childhood?

What possible advantage would there have been for Obama to invent WWII experience for father instead of using his grandfather's real experience to make his point? His life story had already been out there for more than a decade.

Your pathological personal dislike of him is rather sad and examples like this really don't help your credibility. You can dislike someone's politics yet be fair-minded.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 03, 2011, 01:35:00 PM
J70 the President of the USA doesn't mis-speak. You misunderestimate them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on August 03, 2011, 04:38:02 PM
I'll bet TO's shite doesn't smell either :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 03, 2011, 04:42:10 PM
Quote from: Groucho on August 03, 2011, 04:38:02 PM
I'll bet TO's shite doesn't smell either :D

Proabably because it was intelligently designed!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 03, 2011, 04:54:26 PM
It's as if GB took his glutted elephant into the American living room and it had acute di-hoor-iya-hi-hay all over the place, and Obama got the job of cleaning it with a broom and dustpan while a group of tea-sipping amnesiacs are gawking in through the windows saying, "Would you look at the feckin' mess that boy's making."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 05:24:46 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 03, 2011, 04:54:26 PM
It's as if GB took his glutted elephant into the American living room and it had acute di-hoor-iya-hi-hay all over the place, and Obama got the job of cleaning it with a broom and dustpan while a group of tea-sipping amnesiacs are gawking in through the windows saying, "Would you look at the feckin' mess that boy's making."
Of course a person paying little to no attention could stillllllllllllll be hanging on to that but the fact is GW had spent far too much money in his 8 yrs so
that needed to change....remember "the buck stops here"speech  ::).
So what did Obama do when he got in....add another 4 trillion dollars of deficit
spending in only 3 yrs mind you, and look where we are!
But hey don't let the facts get in the way in still blaming Bush  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 05:54:36 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 01:15:22 AM
Quote
Can you think of anything that happened after 2006 that might have put a drain on the Fed. Anything at all?
Actually Yes...Pelosi and Reid took control of the purse strings  ;D

Quote from: muppet on August 03, 2011, 01:35:00 PM
J70 the President of the USA doesn't mis-speak. You misunderestimate them.
Moving swiftly along again I see Muppet  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 03, 2011, 07:28:33 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 01:13:07 AM
Quote from: dec on August 02, 2011, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 02, 2011, 06:34:19 AMif you're spending more money than you're bringing in, YOU NEED TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING
or bring in more money
The top 50% already pay 97% of taxes Revenue ::) collected... do you want their first born also, this kind of thinking will drive
the wealth out of this country in search of tax havens elsewhere then who are they coming after  :o
No they don't. They may pay 97% of all income tax collected but not all tax. Payroll taxes, social security and medicare, are paid on all income and fall more heavily on the lower earners. With social security tax, once you reach a certain income level you don't pay any additional tax (for the current year $106,800).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 08:03:23 PM
QuoteNo they don't. They may pay 97% of all income tax collected but not all tax.
Ah right...it's only 97% of income tax they pay ::) and that's not enough right?
QuotePayroll taxes, social security and medicare,
Payroll taxes...Mmm, lets see, what becomes of payroll taxes if the Corps, so called wealthy and regular small business owners that are the back bone of the US work force continue to be targeted, regulated to death and are ultimately shut down or driven out of the country ::)

SS and Medicare... If you intend to avail of these benefits at some point then yes, it's absolutely incumbent upon you to pay into them!
Strange how there's no uproar from all those in favor of higher taxes and bigger government that there are people who are non citizens and who never paid a dime in to SS quite happily receiving it  >:( but of course they've checked over the budget and can't find areas to be cut  ::), damn those tea party terrorists for highlighting such injustices!
Quoteand fall more heavily on the lower earners.
Please explain!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 03, 2011, 08:46:22 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 08:03:23 PM
Please explain!
For 2011 tax year
Someone will a salary of $20,000 pays 4.2% in SS tax
Someone will a salary of $200,000 pays 2.2% in SS tax
Someone will a salary of $2,000,000 pays 0.22% in SS tax
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on August 03, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5400291509_32fd57f5de.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 04, 2011, 01:22:56 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 04:26:32 AM

Eh...ok, don't know exactly where I fall percentage wise in America but I'm paying a hell of a lot more than that :(
Not sure where you come up with that figure ???

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/whopaysmost.htm

here actually http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/04/12/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/ (http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/04/12/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/)

and no you don't pay more than that. You pay next to nothing n gas (petrol) nothing on a mortgage and a bunch of other tax free stuff that means that your effective rate is less than 14%. Unless of course you're earning more than $390K in which case your effective tax rate peaks at 23%, in which case congratulations but that rate is still too low...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 05, 2011, 04:59:50 AM
Obama Turns 50 Despite Republican Opposition
August 4, 2011 | ISSUE 47•31

The Onion

01.10.08 WASHINGTON—After months of heated negotiations and failed attempts to achieve any kind of consensus, President Obama turned 50 years old Thursday, drawing strong criticism from Republicans in Congress. "With the host of problems this country is currently facing, the fact that our president is devoting time to the human process of aging is an affront to Americans everywhere," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who advocated a provision to keep Obama 49 at least through the fall of 2013. "To move forward unilaterally and simply begin the next year of his life without bipartisan support—is that any way to lead a country?" According to White House officials, Obama attempted to work with Republicans right up until the Aug. 4 deadline, but was ultimately left with no choice except to turn a year older.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 05, 2011, 10:59:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 04, 2011, 01:22:56 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 03, 2011, 04:26:32 AM

Eh...ok, don't know exactly where I fall percentage wise in America but I'm paying a hell of a lot more than that :(
Not sure where you come up with that figure ???

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/whopaysmost.htm

here actually http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/04/12/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/ (http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/04/12/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/)

and no you don't pay more than that. You pay next to nothing n gas (petrol) nothing on a mortgage and a bunch of other tax free stuff that means that your effective rate is less than 14%. Unless of course you're earning more than $390K in which case your effective tax rate peaks at 23%, in which case congratulations but that rate is still too low...
Of course it is... that's my point and thanks for helping me with it, Its simply never ever enough with the tax, print, barrow and spend Democrats  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 06, 2011, 12:14:17 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 05, 2011, 10:59:43 PMIts simply never ever enough with the tax, print, barrow and spend Democrats  ::)

as opposed to the don't tax, borrow (assuming you were going for borrow there) and spend more (mostly abroad so it doesn't help the economy) Republicans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 06, 2011, 02:05:34 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 05, 2011, 10:59:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 04, 2011, 01:22:56 AM
] but that rate is still too low...[/b]
Of course it is... that's my point and thanks for helping me with it, Its simply never ever enough with the tax, print, barrow and spend Democrats  ::)

Hang on a minute- you're not getting me- my point is that we are paying too little tax, are you sure you're agreeing with me?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on August 06, 2011, 04:24:57 AM
Quote from: Groucho on August 03, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5400291509_32fd57f5de.jpg)

:D :D :D :D - Good one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 08, 2011, 05:46:56 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 06, 2011, 02:05:34 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 05, 2011, 10:59:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 04, 2011, 01:22:56 AM
] but that rate is still too low...[/b]
Of course it is... that's my point and thanks for helping me with it, Its simply never ever enough with the tax, print, barrow and spend Democrats  ::)

Hang on a minute- you're not getting me- my point is that we are paying too little tax, are you sure you're agreeing with me?
Oh I think we all know where you and your ilk stand with taxes; ::)

Tax his land, Tax his bed, Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor, Tax his mule, Teach him taxes Are the rule.

Tax his work, Tax his pay, He works for
peanuts anyway!


Tax his cow, Tax his goat, Tax his pants, Tax his coat.


Tax his ties, Tax his shirt, Tax his work, Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco, Tax his drink, Tax him if he
tries to think.


Tax his cigars, Tax his beers, If he cries Tax his tears.


Tax his car, Tax his gas, Find other ways To tax his ass.

Tax all he has Then let him know That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers; Then tax him some more, Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin, Tax his grave, Tax the sod in Which he's laid...

Put these words Upon his tomb, 'Taxes drove me to my doom...'

When he's gone, Do not relax, Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax

Building Permit Tax

CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax

Dog License Tax

Excise Taxes

Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax

Gasoline Tax
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax

IRS Interest Charges
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)

Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes

Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax

Personal Property Tax
Property Tax

Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Usage Tax

Sales Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
School Tax State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)

Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax

Utility Taxes

Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax

Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax


Yes it's more taxes we need  ::) where you always this brain washed for the cause HB or did living in NY simply bury you in sand?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mannix on August 08, 2011, 07:00:09 PM
my telephone bill in new york city has 13 taxes on it, all listed out to see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on August 08, 2011, 07:33:39 PM
I think they should introduce a new tax just to piss off the tea party...a "f**k you tea party" tax.
I'd pay it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 08, 2011, 07:49:26 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on August 08, 2011, 07:33:39 PM
I think they should introduce a new tax just to piss off the tea party...a "f**k you tea party" tax.
I'd pay it.
No need Mike...I listed a bunch of taxes on the last page that has already
done that and you've paid them...you're just playing in the same sand box
as HB... that we need more of them!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LostInSpace on August 08, 2011, 08:45:10 PM
They'll all be speaking chinese before 2020!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 08, 2011, 08:57:14 PM
Many of the teavangelicals speak in tongues already.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 08, 2011, 09:00:23 PM
Quote from: mannix on August 08, 2011, 07:00:09 PM
my telephone bill in new york city has 13 taxes on it, all listed out to see.
Yet there are some here that'll argue that that's not enough  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 08, 2011, 08:57:14 PM
Many of the teavangelicals speak in tongues already.

https://secure.marketwatch.com/community/groups/american-politics/topics/msnbc-terminally--ideologues-should-stop

Good man Joe, telling it like it is....on MSNBC no less!
The cat is well and truly out of the bag as to where the blame lies  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 09, 2011, 04:11:41 PM
TO,

you are not making any sense at all. 3 answers please:

1. What do you think that tax levels should be in the US?

2. And what do you think people should pay taxes on?

3. What do you think corporations and businesses should pay taxes on?




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 06:19:12 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 09, 2011, 04:11:41 PM
TO,

you are not making any sense at all. 3 answers please:

1. What do you think that tax levels should be in the US?

2. And what do you think people should pay taxes on?

3. What do you think corporations and businesses should pay taxes on?

Explain the first line for me before I get to your questions  :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 09, 2011, 07:41:39 PM
TO, you're starting to speak in tongues yourself.  What are you on about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 08:07:28 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 09, 2011, 07:41:39 PM
TO, you're starting to speak in tongues yourself.  What are you on about?
I've an idea...why not "click" on the link above this time as it is
pretty explanatory, hard as it is for ye to read  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 09, 2011, 09:14:28 PM
TO, it must have been lonely for you (or is "ye" more proper?) back home with such right wing opinions as yours.  Did the evangelical wing of the DUP not accept you and your flapping tricolour?  Did you always have these views, or did someone whack you over the head with a civil rights placard when you were a child?

Keep drinking the tea.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 09, 2011, 09:31:37 PM
when I said you weren't making sense I was referring to this post

Technically the first line was "TO" but I assume the not making sense part was where you were heading.

So any chance of those three answers now?

Quote from: Tyrones own on August 08, 2011, 05:46:56 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 06, 2011, 02:05:34 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 05, 2011, 10:59:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 04, 2011, 01:22:56 AM
] but that rate is still too low...[/b]
Of course it is... that's my point and thanks for helping me with it, Its simply never ever enough with the tax, print, barrow and spend Democrats  ::)

Hang on a minute- you're not getting me- my point is that we are paying too little tax, are you sure you're agreeing with me?
Oh I think we all know where you and your ilk stand with taxes; ::)

Tax his land, Tax his bed, Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor, Tax his mule, Teach him taxes Are the rule.

Tax his work, Tax his pay, He works for
peanuts anyway!


Tax his cow, Tax his goat, Tax his pants, Tax his coat.


Tax his ties, Tax his shirt, Tax his work, Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco, Tax his drink, Tax him if he
tries to think.


Tax his cigars, Tax his beers, If he cries Tax his tears.


Tax his car, Tax his gas, Find other ways To tax his ass.

Tax all he has Then let him know That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers; Then tax him some more, Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin, Tax his grave, Tax the sod in Which he's laid...

Put these words Upon his tomb, 'Taxes drove me to my doom...'

When he's gone, Do not relax, Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax

Building Permit Tax

CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax

Dog License Tax

Excise Taxes

Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax

Gasoline Tax
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax

IRS Interest Charges
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)

Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes

Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax

Personal Property Tax
Property Tax

Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Usage Tax

Sales Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
School Tax State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)

Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax

Utility Taxes

Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax

Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax


Yes it's more taxes we need  ::) where you always this brain washed for the cause HB or did living in NY simply bury you in sand?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 09:49:41 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 09, 2011, 09:31:37 PM
when I said you weren't making sense I was referring to this post

Technically the first line was "TO" but I assume the not making sense part was where you were heading.

So any chance of those three answers now?

Quote from: Tyrones own on August 08, 2011, 05:46:56 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 06, 2011, 02:05:34 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 05, 2011, 10:59:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 04, 2011, 01:22:56 AM
] but that rate is still too low...[/b]
Of course it is... that's my point and thanks for helping me with it, Its simply never ever enough with the tax, print, barrow and spend Democrats  ::)

Hang on a minute- you're not getting me- my point is that we are paying too little tax, are you sure you're agreeing with me?
Oh I think we all know where you and your ilk stand with taxes; ::)

Tax his land, Tax his bed, Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor, Tax his mule, Teach him taxes Are the rule.

Tax his work, Tax his pay, He works for
peanuts anyway!


Tax his cow, Tax his goat, Tax his pants, Tax his coat.


Tax his ties, Tax his shirt, Tax his work, Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco, Tax his drink, Tax him if he
tries to think.


Tax his cigars, Tax his beers, If he cries Tax his tears.


Tax his car, Tax his gas, Find other ways To tax his ass.

Tax all he has Then let him know That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers; Then tax him some more, Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin, Tax his grave, Tax the sod in Which he's laid...

Put these words Upon his tomb, 'Taxes drove me to my doom...'

When he's gone, Do not relax, Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax

Building Permit Tax

CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax

Dog License Tax

Excise Taxes

Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax

Gasoline Tax
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax

IRS Interest Charges
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)

Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes

Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax

Personal Property Tax
Property Tax

Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Usage Tax

Sales Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
School Tax State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)

Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax

Utility Taxes

Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax

Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax


Yes it's more taxes we need  ::) where you always this brain washed for the cause HB or did living in NY simply bury you in sand?
:D what part about my posting a portion of what taxes the average American faces on a day to day basis in response to your "we're not taxed enough"
don't you understand  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 10:09:07 PM
Two weeks ago it was all bush's fault then last weekend it was the
Tea party's fault....now today, the much idolized Michael Moore wants
The CEO of the S&P arrested!  :D
Honest to fcuk...you could'nt script this any better on the run in to the election
as to the depths they'll sink to protect O'blamer.

*edit, jaysus they've already now moved on to blaming the media
Reduced to turning on their own now to find any out at all for Obummer!
Stay tuned now...its liable to change again before the day is out  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on August 09, 2011, 10:31:47 PM
Not going back through 52 pages ... but if a stupid country wants to spend loads of money it hasnt got  having a big army trying to rule the world , then borrows countless zillions of $ to bail out banks to whom it owes other countless zillions in the first place, , elects stupid pricks like Bush as a President and thinks the likes of Sarah Palin is sensible , gets involved in a cowboys and "Indians" war in Afghanistan plus throws billions to the rogue state of Israel......
No wonder the place is fcuked....  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 09, 2011, 10:35:52 PM
Quote
:D what part about my posting a portion of what taxes the average American faces on a day to day basis in response to your "we're not taxed enough"
don't you understand  ::)

Im asking what you think the taxes should be?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 10:39:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 09, 2011, 10:31:47 PM
Not going back through 52 pages ... but if a stupid country wants to spend loads of money it hasnt got  having a big army trying to rule the world , then borrows countless zillions of $ to bail out banks to whom it owes other countless zillions in the first place, , elects stupid pricks like Bush as a President and thinks the likes of Sarah Palin is sensible , gets involved in a cowboys and "Indians" war in Afghanistan plus throws billions to the rogue state of Israel......
No wonder the place is fcuked....  ::)
Of course not... for fear you might learn something or read a different angle from what's ingrained
in you, Back to the gaurdian you go ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 09, 2011, 10:35:52 PM
Quote
:D what part about my posting a portion of what taxes the average American faces on a day to day basis in response to your "we're not taxed enough"
don't you understand  ::)

Im asking what you think the taxes should be?
I'm well aware of what you're asking me but can we settle this first for the third time
"TO,
you are not making any sense at all."

I can wait.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2011, 12:24:38 AM
For those wondering who this Joe Scarborough (MSNBC) that TO is crowing about is, he is a former hard right Republican congressman and Clinton hater. Has moderated his vitriol since landing his tv/radio gig, but liberal equivalent of Limbaugh or Hannity he ain't, MSNBC or not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 10, 2011, 12:55:44 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2011, 12:24:38 AM
For those wondering who this Joe Scarborough (MSNBC) that TO is crowing about is, he is a former hard right Republican congressman and Clinton hater. Has moderated his vitriol since landing his tv/radio gig, but liberal equivalent of Limbaugh or Hannity he ain't, MSNBC or not.
Ah typical...the auld damage control out in force trying to down play it!
fair and balanced MSNBC most Definitely is not and Mr Scarborough is very well suited to it!
Nice try though ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 10, 2011, 01:08:25 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 10:09:07 PM
Two weeks ago it was all bush's fault then last weekend it was the
Tea party's fault....now today, the much idolized Michael Moore wants
The CEO of the S&P arrested!  :D
Honest to fcuk...you could'nt script this any better on the run in to the election
as to the depths they'll sink to protect O'blamer.

*edit, jaysus they've already now moved on to blaming the media
Reduced to turning on their own now to find any out at all for Obummer!
Stay tuned now...its liable to change again before the day is out  :D

*edit, Oops , shite... I forgot to mention that O'Blamer has also blamed Europe and the Japanese earthquake ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2011, 01:17:50 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 10, 2011, 12:55:44 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2011, 12:24:38 AM
For those wondering who this Joe Scarborough (MSNBC) that TO is crowing about is, he is a former hard right Republican congressman and Clinton hater. Has moderated his vitriol since landing his tv/radio gig, but liberal equivalent of Limbaugh or Hannity he ain't, MSNBC or not.
Ah typical...the auld damage control out in force trying to down play it!
fair and balanced MSNBC most Definitely is not and Mr Scarborough is very well suited to it!
Nice try though ;)

I see, so Scarborough's a liberal now, is he??!

Well those who are interested can do their own research.

Regardless, I've made no comment on his statement anyway. Just pointing out to those who don't get MSNBC what Scarborough in fact is, and that he is NOT a liberal commentator, as your "MSNBC no less" comment implied.

As for MSNBC itself, there's a reason I don't watch a station that is trying to be the liberal equivalent of Fox, but I will at least give them credit for having a conservative commentator as their primary morning host. Unless things have changed recently, there is no equivalent on "we report, you decide" Fox.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 10, 2011, 04:12:22 AM
QuoteI see, so Scarborough's a liberal now, is he??!
No he's a RINO and one that fits in just great with the other balanced commentators that thon
bottom of the pile, losing network has on offer.
Obummer had them in his pocket sending thrills up their legs for 3 yrs but it would seem the shine
is going off of him...not even they can bluff it anymore   :-X

Anyway, what's your take personally on this inept fraud making history in being the first President in
history to preside over the losing of our AAA credit rating? Tut .Tut  :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 10, 2011, 05:02:21 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 09, 2011, 10:35:52 PM
Quote
:D what part about my posting a portion of what taxes the average American faces on a day to day basis in response to your "we're not taxed enough"
don't you understand  ::)

Im asking what you think the taxes should be?
I'm well aware of what you're asking me but can we settle this first for the third time
"TO,
you are not making any sense at all."

I can wait.....

still not sure why you're being evasive. but ok I'll play your little game.
"you're not making sense" in this case refers specifically to the post I referred you to above, and in particular:

QuoteOh I think we all know where you and your ilk stand with taxes;

and
Quotewhere you always this brain washed for the cause HB or did living in NY simply bury you in sand?

neither of these phrases make any sense to me, and neither does the copy and paste of the tax poem.

now can you answer the questions?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 10, 2011, 05:49:05 AM
Quote
Quote

    Oh I think we all know where you and your ilk stand with taxes;
What is so hard to understand...you've stated quite clearly that we simply don't pay enough tax
and I've stated clearly that we do...it's runaway spending that is the problem here, but hey don't take my word for it,
read the full 5 page S&P report of the downgrade and their reasoning  :o
Quotewhere you always this brain washed for the cause HB or did living in NY simply bury you in sand?
Only someone living in the bastion of liberalism could have his head so buried in sand..and it's not lost on me that
the most vocal here of all things Obummer and or raising taxes seem to hail from the NY area, well that and the most corrupt
of corrupt home town of the empty suit in chief himself!  :-*
Quote
neither of these phrases make any sense to me, and neither does the copy and paste of the tax poem.
If you didn't find humor in the truth of that poem one would have to assume that you're either a long may it last
welfare recipient or just hopelessly lost to the cause :o
Do you pay tax at all ?... if so, I hope you're writing a check for 3 or 4 times the amount owed and taking no deductions,
you know just for the cause an all and to prove you're not full of shite ::) somehow I doubt it very much
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 10, 2011, 07:20:15 AM
lets do this point by point:

Point 1.
my opinion is that tax policy in the US is asinine, personal and corporate taxes both. In particular the taxes on the highest earners i.e. zero personal tax. How can you justify a hedge fund manager taking home $30M but paying zero tax on that income? How can you justify an american company bringing in $19 Billion dollars in profit yet paying no tax in the US (Exxon, in fact received a $150Million dollar tax rebate see rest of list below) . 57% of companies in the US have gone without paying tax for a year in the last 8 tax years. Tax on fuel further screws up the economy, and the corporation taxes here in the US are boosting foreign economies not the US domestic economy. As for standard and poors, I have read the report, and I have been reading reports from them every day for 10 years, I have kept some of their better ones, Lehman triple A ratings, AIG triple A ratings, US mortgage backed securities, CDOs. McGraw-Hill is a publishing company, some fiction, some non fiction.

Credit rating is based on the likelihood of a default on debt. The debt ceiling brinkmanship that played out over the last few weeks showed that there was a strong likelihood that American politicians of all backgrounds would allow the country to default on its loans.

Your opinion is the spending is the issue, no matter how clearly you state it, its still an opinion. You have however compared the US economy to a household in the past, so allow me to have a different opinion. Spending is certainly a problem, (how would stopping two wars/ military campaigns impact that spending), however it is over shadowed by the lack of taxation that are applied to certain sections of business and certain types of income. If it were as simple as you seem to see it- why doesn't everyone move to Delaware?

The public perception of this issue in the US is influenced by politicians, and that means soundbites and cherry picking of issues that they know will resonate. It doesn't suit a politician who wants to get elected to say "our tax code is a steaming pile of shite so we'll have to rewrite it" or "the spending commitments we have agreed to in order to get all these crappy bills passed that we scare mongered folks into supporting are complete bullshit and we basically bought votes in both houses by sticking this crap in there, but I got re-elected last time so who cares?" However look at the press and support you receive when you say "we're spending too much when I'm in power I'll spend less"

I am very happy to hear that you agree with cutting spending, but if you don't have a view on what taxation policy should be to pay for the spending that you do happen to agree with. Or maybe if you can cite one example of cutting government spending to stimulate an economy, or maybe cite a theory as to how this time its going to be different (remember no promising change..) then I'll be more than happy to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Point number 2.
Liberalism is not democratic US politics, nor is it GOP. I may be a liberal but I fail to see why gay marriage being legalized in New York has anything to do with tax policy. I would also argue strongly that on this issue that I'm not the one with his head buried in the sand (or over simplifying). Also raising taxes, as we have all seen over the last few weeks, has very little to do with the President, that would be a congressional issue, but as previously don't let the facts or logic get in the way of your point. or alternatively throw in yet another complete irrelevance into the discussion to "prove your point". For the record my line of work is at least 95% republican, and where I live although liberal in most senses of the word also votes consistently republican. And without trying to cast aspersions on your detective skills, and things being lost on you (the irony) who else from New York (or Chicago assuming you now allow that the President of the USA wasn't born in Kenya) is advocating tax increases, and who from outside of those areas (other than your good self) is advocating tax reductions?

Point 3.
you asked me to explain why it didn't make sense to me, but now apparently its about a sense of humor? And seeking truth in poetry? I do pay tax, I have a nice little accountant who works out exactly what I owe, and then I write 3 checks, one to NJ, one to NY and one to the IRS. All of them will send you back a check for the difference if you pay more than you owe just for future reference.
Now maybe you answer the questions
1. What do you think that tax levels should be in the US?
2. And what do you think people should pay taxes on?
3. What do you think corporations and businesses should pay taxes on?

While you're at it, can tell me what cause this is you're referring to and why I'm full of shite? ( because the dumb answer will get a reply asking you to write a check for less than you owe( assuming you actually pay tax)and then take your case to the supreme court- let me know how you get on with that...)

Or maybe you can come back with something other than a little sound bite without logic, reasoning or any basic economic common sense. Accuse me of being something or other, sympathizing with someone or other (and their ilk), disparaging remark about the president or another member of the democratic party who you seem to assume I have some allegiance to. Diversionary tactics wont be entertained either.

And food for thought, as you seem annoyed at being in the top 50% of tax payers and seem very pissed at having to subsidize that 50% that earn less than $47,000 per family per year. Spare a thought for the poor buggers that earn more than $380,00 per family per year who pay more tax than everyone who earns less than $160,000 combined even with this tax system. Its a cruel world after all...

List of non tax paying US companies:
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8 ) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on August 10, 2011, 09:12:28 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 10:39:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 09, 2011, 10:31:47 PM
Not going back through 52 pages ... but if a stupid country wants to spend loads of money it hasnt got  having a big army trying to rule the world , then borrows countless zillions of $ to bail out banks to whom it owes other countless zillions in the first place, , elects stupid pricks like Bush as a President and thinks the likes of Sarah Palin is sensible , gets involved in a cowboys and "Indians" war in Afghanistan plus throws billions to the rogue state of Israel......
No wonder the place is fcuked....  ::)
Of course not... for fear you might learn something or read a different angle from what's ingrained
in you, Back to the gaurdian you go ::)

I don't read foreign newspapers  and anyway it's the Guardian  ;)

Sort of backing up my belief that ultra right wing US republicans are'nt exactly too  bright.

Anyway you seem to be the only one that is totally ingrained on this subject.

If the US stopped trying to take over the rest of the world they'd have plenty of money.
Afghanistan toppled the USSR Empire and it 's well on the way to ending the US/MultiNational/Capitalist Empire.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 10, 2011, 05:59:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2011, 01:17:50 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 10, 2011, 12:55:44 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2011, 12:24:38 AM
For those wondering who this Joe Scarborough (MSNBC) that TO is crowing about is, he is a former hard right Republican congressman and Clinton hater. Has moderated his vitriol since landing his tv/radio gig, but liberal equivalent of Limbaugh or Hannity he ain't, MSNBC or not.
Ah typical...the auld damage control out in force trying to down play it!
fair and balanced MSNBC most Definitely is not and Mr Scarborough is very well suited to it!
Nice try though ;)

I see, so Scarborough's a liberal now, is he??!

Well those who are interested can do their own research.

Regardless, I've made no comment on his statement anyway. Just pointing out to those who don't get MSNBC what Scarborough in fact is, and that he is NOT a liberal commentator, as your "MSNBC no less" comment implied.

As for MSNBC itself, there's a reason I don't watch a station that is trying to be the liberal equivalent of Fox, but I will at least give them credit for having a conservative commentator as their primary morning host. Unless things have changed recently, there is no equivalent on "we report, you decide" Fox.

Ok then here's another of a long list of once faithful followers
...I suppose she's a conservative also  ::)

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/opinion/withholder-in-chief.xml
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 10, 2011, 06:07:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 10, 2011, 09:12:28 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 09, 2011, 10:39:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 09, 2011, 10:31:47 PM
Not going back through 52 pages ... but if a stupid country wants to spend loads of money it hasnt got  having a big army trying to rule the world , then borrows countless zillions of $ to bail out banks to whom it owes other countless zillions in the first place, , elects stupid pricks like Bush as a President and thinks the likes of Sarah Palin is sensible , gets involved in a cowboys and "Indians" war in Afghanistan plus throws billions to the rogue state of Israel......
No wonder the place is fcuked....  ::)
Of course not... for fear you might learn something or read a different angle from what's ingrained
in you, Back to the gaurdian you go ::)

I don't read foreign newspapers  and anyway it's the Guardian  ;)

Sort of backing up my belief that ultra right wing US republicans are'nt exactly too  bright.

Anyway you seem to be the only one that is totally ingrained on this subject.

If the US stopped trying to take over the rest of the world they'd have plenty of money.
Afghanistan toppled the USSR Empire and it 's well on the way to ending the US/MultiNational/Capitalist Empire.
You are'nt in much of a position to lecture me on the spelling of a paper
I wouldn't wipe my arse with now are you :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Orangemac on August 10, 2011, 11:52:07 PM
Who is looking like winning the Republican nomination next year?

Does Sarah Palin have a chance or will they go for someone more moderate like Mitt Romney?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on August 11, 2011, 02:56:08 AM
America was done long before Obama came to power. It's a bit daft giving much thought to a company like Standard & Poors considering they gave Lehman Brothers a Triple A rating right up to the moment they went bankrupt. explain that Tyrone. The system was rotten to the core long, long ago. America was rotten to the core. Nothing to do with Obama. He was left with a mess that won't be fixed for a long time. Maybe never. America is a country with too many rich white guys playing golf in places like Scottsdale. Living off their wealth and not putting anything back to the system except complaining about taxes and big government. The country has stagnated. There's a few exceptions like the tech sector but that bubble will blow up soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 11, 2011, 06:43:58 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 10, 2011, 07:20:15 AM
lets do this point by point:

Point 1.
my opinion is that tax policy in the US is asinine, personal and corporate taxes both. In particular the taxes on the highest earners i.e. zero personal tax. How can you justify a hedge fund manager taking home $30M but paying zero tax on that income? How can you justify an american company bringing in $19 Billion dollars in profit yet paying no tax in the US (Exxon, in fact received a $150Million dollar tax rebate see rest of list below) . 57% of companies in the US have gone without paying tax for a year in the last 8 tax years. Tax on fuel further screws up the economy, and the corporation taxes here in the US are boosting foreign economies not the US domestic economy. As for standard and poors, I have read the report, and I have been reading reports from them every day for 10 years, I have kept some of their better ones, Lehman triple A ratings, AIG triple A ratings, US mortgage backed securities, CDOs. McGraw-Hill is a publishing company, some fiction, some non fiction.

Credit rating is based on the likelihood of a default on debt. The debt ceiling brinkmanship that played out over the last few weeks showed that there was a strong likelihood that American politicians of all backgrounds would allow the country to default on its loans.

Your opinion is the spending is the issue, no matter how clearly you state it, its still an opinion. You have however compared the US economy to a household in the past, so allow me to have a different opinion. Spending is certainly a problem, (how would stopping two wars/ military campaigns impact that spending), however it is over shadowed by the lack of taxation that are applied to certain sections of business and certain types of income. If it were as simple as you seem to see it- why doesn't everyone move to Delaware?

The public perception of this issue in the US is influenced by politicians, and that means soundbites and cherry picking of issues that they know will resonate. It doesn't suit a politician who wants to get elected to say "our tax code is a steaming pile of shite so we'll have to rewrite it" or "the spending commitments we have agreed to in order to get all these crappy bills passed that we scare mongered folks into supporting are complete bullshit and we basically bought votes in both houses by sticking this crap in there, but I got re-elected last time so who cares?" However look at the press and support you receive when you say "we're spending too much when I'm in power I'll spend less"

I am very happy to hear that you agree with cutting spending, but if you don't have a view on what taxation policy should be to pay for the spending that you do happen to agree with. Or maybe if you can cite one example of cutting government spending to stimulate an economy, or maybe cite a theory as to how this time its going to be different (remember no promising change..) then I'll be more than happy to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Point number 2.
Liberalism is not democratic US politics, nor is it GOP. I may be a liberal but I fail to see why gay marriage being legalized in New York has anything to do with tax policy. I would also argue strongly that on this issue that I'm not the one with his head buried in the sand (or over simplifying). Also raising taxes, as we have all seen over the last few weeks, has very little to do with the President, that would be a congressional issue, but as previously don't let the facts or logic get in the way of your point. or alternatively throw in yet another complete irrelevance into the discussion to "prove your point". For the record my line of work is at least 95% republican, and where I live although liberal in most senses of the word also votes consistently republican. And without trying to cast aspersions on your detective skills, and things being lost on you (the irony) who else from New York (or Chicago assuming you now allow that the President of the USA wasn't born in Kenya) is advocating tax increases, and who from outside of those areas (other than your good self) is advocating tax reductions?

Point 3.
you asked me to explain why it didn't make sense to me, but now apparently its about a sense of humor? And seeking truth in poetry? I do pay tax, I have a nice little accountant who works out exactly what I owe, and then I write 3 checks, one to NJ, one to NY and one to the IRS. All of them will send you back a check for the difference if you pay more than you owe just for future reference.
Now maybe you answer the questions
1. What do you think that tax levels should be in the US?
2. And what do you think people should pay taxes on?
3. What do you think corporations and businesses should pay taxes on?

While you're at it, can tell me what cause this is you're referring to and why I'm full of shite? ( because the dumb answer will get a reply asking you to write a check for less than you owe( assuming you actually pay tax)and then take your case to the supreme court- let me know how you get on with that...)

Or maybe you can come back with something other than a little sound bite without logic, reasoning or any basic economic common sense. Accuse me of being something or other, sympathizing with someone or other (and their ilk), disparaging remark about the president or another member of the democratic party who you seem to assume I have some allegiance to. Diversionary tactics wont be entertained either.

And food for thought, as you seem annoyed at being in the top 50% of tax payers and seem very pissed at having to subsidize that 50% that earn less than $47,000 per family per year. Spare a thought for the poor buggers that earn more than $380,00 per family per year who pay more tax than everyone who earns less than $160,000 combined even with this tax system. Its a cruel world after all...

List of non tax paying US companies:
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8 ) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

I had my doubts about the quality of the education that i got at SPCA but they seem to have done a good job on you, lad from just south of portydown. That was a tremedous post ... maybe Mr. Tir Own Own will actually read it and wind his nexk in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 11, 2011, 06:46:25 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on August 11, 2011, 02:56:08 AM
America was done long before Obama came to power. It's a bit daft giving much thought to a company like Standard & Poors considering they gave Lehman Brothers a Triple A rating right up to the moment they went bankrupt. explain that Tyrone. The system was rotten to the core long, long ago. America was rotten to the core. Nothing to do with Obama. He was left with a mess that won't be fixed for a long time. Maybe never. America is a country with too many rich white guys playing golf in places like Scottsdale. Living off their wealth and not putting anything back to the system except complaining about taxes and big government. The country has stagnated. There's a few exceptions like the tech sector but that bubble will blow up soon.
Only the truth shall set you free;
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1
Explain that ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 11, 2011, 06:50:32 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 11, 2011, 06:43:58 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 10, 2011, 07:20:15 AM
lets do this point by point:

Point 1.
my opinion is that tax policy in the US is asinine, personal and corporate taxes both. In particular the taxes on the highest earners i.e. zero personal tax. How can you justify a hedge fund manager taking home $30M but paying zero tax on that income? How can you justify an american company bringing in $19 Billion dollars in profit yet paying no tax in the US (Exxon, in fact received a $150Million dollar tax rebate see rest of list below) . 57% of companies in the US have gone without paying tax for a year in the last 8 tax years. Tax on fuel further screws up the economy, and the corporation taxes here in the US are boosting foreign economies not the US domestic economy. As for standard and poors, I have read the report, and I have been reading reports from them every day for 10 years, I have kept some of their better ones, Lehman triple A ratings, AIG triple A ratings, US mortgage backed securities, CDOs. McGraw-Hill is a publishing company, some fiction, some non fiction.

Credit rating is based on the likelihood of a default on debt. The debt ceiling brinkmanship that played out over the last few weeks showed that there was a strong likelihood that American politicians of all backgrounds would allow the country to default on its loans.

Your opinion is the spending is the issue, no matter how clearly you state it, its still an opinion. You have however compared the US economy to a household in the past, so allow me to have a different opinion. Spending is certainly a problem, (how would stopping two wars/ military campaigns impact that spending), however it is over shadowed by the lack of taxation that are applied to certain sections of business and certain types of income. If it were as simple as you seem to see it- why doesn't everyone move to Delaware?

The public perception of this issue in the US is influenced by politicians, and that means soundbites and cherry picking of issues that they know will resonate. It doesn't suit a politician who wants to get elected to say "our tax code is a steaming pile of shite so we'll have to rewrite it" or "the spending commitments we have agreed to in order to get all these crappy bills passed that we scare mongered folks into supporting are complete bullshit and we basically bought votes in both houses by sticking this crap in there, but I got re-elected last time so who cares?" However look at the press and support you receive when you say "we're spending too much when I'm in power I'll spend less"

I am very happy to hear that you agree with cutting spending, but if you don't have a view on what taxation policy should be to pay for the spending that you do happen to agree with. Or maybe if you can cite one example of cutting government spending to stimulate an economy, or maybe cite a theory as to how this time its going to be different (remember no promising change..) then I'll be more than happy to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Point number 2.
Liberalism is not democratic US politics, nor is it GOP. I may be a liberal but I fail to see why gay marriage being legalized in New York has anything to do with tax policy. I would also argue strongly that on this issue that I'm not the one with his head buried in the sand (or over simplifying). Also raising taxes, as we have all seen over the last few weeks, has very little to do with the President, that would be a congressional issue, but as previously don't let the facts or logic get in the way of your point. or alternatively throw in yet another complete irrelevance into the discussion to "prove your point". For the record my line of work is at least 95% republican, and where I live although liberal in most senses of the word also votes consistently republican. And without trying to cast aspersions on your detective skills, and things being lost on you (the irony) who else from New York (or Chicago assuming you now allow that the President of the USA wasn't born in Kenya) is advocating tax increases, and who from outside of those areas (other than your good self) is advocating tax reductions?

Point 3.
you asked me to explain why it didn't make sense to me, but now apparently its about a sense of humor? And seeking truth in poetry? I do pay tax, I have a nice little accountant who works out exactly what I owe, and then I write 3 checks, one to NJ, one to NY and one to the IRS. All of them will send you back a check for the difference if you pay more than you owe just for future reference.
Now maybe you answer the questions
1. What do you think that tax levels should be in the US?
2. And what do you think people should pay taxes on?
3. What do you think corporations and businesses should pay taxes on?

While you're at it, can tell me what cause this is you're referring to and why I'm full of shite? ( because the dumb answer will get a reply asking you to write a check for less than you owe( assuming you actually pay tax)and then take your case to the supreme court- let me know how you get on with that...)

Or maybe you can come back with something other than a little sound bite without logic, reasoning or any basic economic common sense. Accuse me of being something or other, sympathizing with someone or other (and their ilk), disparaging remark about the president or another member of the democratic party who you seem to assume I have some allegiance to. Diversionary tactics wont be entertained either.

And food for thought, as you seem annoyed at being in the top 50% of tax payers and seem very pissed at having to subsidize that 50% that earn less than $47,000 per family per year. Spare a thought for the poor buggers that earn more than $380,00 per family per year who pay more tax than everyone who earns less than $160,000 combined even with this tax system. Its a cruel world after all...

List of non tax paying US companies:
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8 ) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

I had my doubts about the quality of the education that i got at SPCA but they seem to have done a good job on you, lad from just south of portydown. That was a tremedous post ... maybe Mr. Tir Own Own will actually read it and wind his nexk in.
:o No harm to you but I wouldn't be blowing about the education that played any part in teaching you to spell
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 12, 2011, 03:32:36 AM
Interesting piece in rolling stone on Fox News' "Chairman" Roger Ailes, the mission of founding Fox News and how their news/editorial line blurring is one of the biggest open secrets in the business.

Caution, this piece will either confirm everything you thought, or it will confirm the left wing media's anti Fox mission, unlikely to make any new converts...

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-roger-ailes-built-the-fox-news-fear-factory-20110525 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-roger-ailes-built-the-fox-news-fear-factory-20110525)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 07:40:20 AM
If the Rolling Stone was any further left they'd be on the right FFS ::)
It's well seen that the election season is just around the corner so
out come the Alinsky tactics again;

Rule # 1 Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

Rule # 2  "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)

Rule # 3 "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

Rule #4  "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

Obummer clearly has his back against the wall with the state of this economy and the left are simply left with the only option they know best ...attacking Fox  :D The number one cable news network for ten years and counting  :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 12, 2011, 04:52:26 PM
Pass the smelling salts, TO, but you actually presented something lucid and accurate.  Those four italicized points are a succinct synopsis of right wing tactics towards Obama in particular and Democratic policies in particular.  In fact, you use them yourself on this board all the time.

And this, again, is where I think the moderators on this site have a significant role to play, as referees in a wrestling match.  TO, you have been pinned more times than the Kardashian sisters, but you're like the Energizer bunny, you just keep going (see Rule #2). Heganboy not only nailed both of your shoulders to the mat, he pushed you through the floorboars into the basement. Time to submit, but in the spirit of an all-too-familiar right wing entity, your true political ancestor, you'll proclainm "No Surrender."

And as you scrape yourself off the mat, would you please answer his questions and not resort to the tactic referred to parenthetically in Rule #4?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 09:25:40 PM
Pinned to the floor...I don't think so  :D
Ye lads have the better part of 5 yrs into trying to get that done  8)
Anyway, getting to his questions...I didn't write the
Tax code, so why don't you direct those questions to
Obummer's main man Timmy the tax cheat and see how you get on.

My point is, what's being overlooked here is that even
if we were to forget completely about the tax that we think should be paid
on those earnings for a minute and take 100% of those profits combined
It wouldn't cover the deficit spending here for two years...then what happens
next year when said companies say fcuk you, we're out of here!
It's pathetic that some of you idiots can't see past the end of your own noses :-[

So in closing, do I believe the tax code needs changing and tightening up,
of course! But to stick your head in the sand and say that raising taxes
is the answer to this and that spending isn't completely out of control
here is insanity imo!
Now, why don't you enlighten us as to how my list on a previous page isn't enough and that we should add to it,  it seems to me that you would rather sweep this point under the carpet and continue to hammer on about Corporations and personal income taxes....cause that's where it stops right?  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 10:29:35 PM
I see he's taken off on vacation to Martha's Vineyard too while the house burns down around us here, that in itself would normally piss me off in highlighting a complete lack of leadership, but actually it's great for the country when he fcuks off out of town...he's not around to fcuk anything up for a week or is it nine days !
The stock market should rebound nicely in his absence :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 13, 2011, 12:43:14 AM
So, TO, it's Iowa Straw Poll time.  Who's your preferred presidential choice?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 13, 2011, 12:46:53 AM
To be honest I'm quite undecided at this early stage, didn't even get to watch
the debate last night but have it DVR'd... very busy this weather  :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 13, 2011, 01:43:44 AM
Quote from: Orangemac on August 10, 2011, 11:52:07 PM
Who is looking like winning the Republican nomination next year?

Does Sarah Palin have a chance or will they go for someone more moderate like Mitt Romney Genghis Khan?

Fixed that for you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 13, 2011, 03:28:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2011, 01:17:50 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 10, 2011, 12:55:44 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2011, 12:24:38 AM
For those wondering who this Joe Scarborough (MSNBC) that TO is crowing about is, he is a former hard right Republican congressman and Clinton hater. Has moderated his vitriol since landing his tv/radio gig, but liberal equivalent of Limbaugh or Hannity he ain't, MSNBC or not.
Ah typical...the auld damage control out in force trying to down play it!
fair and balanced MSNBC most Definitely is not and Mr Scarborough is very well suited to it!
Nice try though ;)


I see, so Scarborough's a liberal now, is he??!

Well those who are interested can do their own research.

Regardless, I've made no comment on his statement anyway. Just pointing out to those who don't get MSNBC what Scarborough in fact is, and that he is NOT a liberal commentator, as your "MSNBC no less" comment implied.

As for MSNBC itself, there's a reason I don't watch a station that is trying to be the liberal equivalent of Fox, but I will at least give them credit for having a conservative commentator as their primary morning host. Unless things have changed recently, there is no equivalent on "we report, you decide" Fox.


Ok then here's another of a long list of once faithful followers
...I suppose she's a conservative also  ::)

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/opinion/withholder-in-chief.xml

Anyone happen to See J around  :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 13, 2011, 06:34:32 AM
With apologies to those bored of this already you get yet another point by point

Quote from: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 09:25:40 PM
I didn't write the
Tax code, so why don't you direct those questions to
Obummer's main man Timmy the tax cheat and see how you get on.
Geithner didnt write the tax code either, the tax code is Congress' responsibility (in case you missed it TO that is the Republican controlled Congress)

point 2:
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 09:25:40 PM
My point is, what's being overlooked here is that even
if we were to forget completely about the tax that we think should be paid
on those earnings for a minute and take 100% of those profits combined
It wouldn't cover the deficit spending here for two years...then what happens
next year when said companies say fcuk you, we're out of here!
It's pathetic that some of you idiots can't see past the end of your own noses :-[
that's ten firms, could I suggest you take a look at the Wilshire 5000 current market cap 15.9 trillion dollars, thats greater than the entire national debt ( no rush- I know you're too busy to even catch up with the dream team in Iowa)

And not forgetting
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 09:25:40 PM
So in closing, do I believe the tax code needs changing and tightening up,
of course!
There's progress- not something one often associates with the far right, but every little helps, and it wasn't really in closing either...

Quote from: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 09:25:40 PM
But to stick your head in the sand and say that raising taxes
is the answer to this and that spending isn't completely out of control
here is insanity imo!
I understand that your opinion is that this is insanity, however I have tried to explain that the economy actually needs to increase revenue (taxes collected) cut the stupid spending (congressional and house pork, dumb programs and dumb vote getting spending) and spend government money to stimulate the economy.
Insanity is trying to do anything other than those three things (all of them by the way no cherry picking)

And last but certainly not least:
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 09:25:40 PM
Now, why don't you enlighten us as to how my list on a previous page isn't enough and that we should add to it,  it seems to me that you would rather sweep this point under the carpet and continue to hammer on about Corporations and personal income taxes....cause that's where it stops right?  ::)

Unsurprising that you did actually end up going with the irrelevant counter punch, you were doing so well up until now. Your list from the 2009 email chain which in fact misses about 300 different taxes is completely irrelevant to this topic. You would be as well listing all of the different items that you spend money on in your weekly budget and putting beside each the federal, state, local and special agency taxes (for the record thats the list of bodies that can collect tax in the US (legally))

The issue is not the individual tax on each item, but rather the effective level of tax. Could I suggest you write your local member of congress (or favored candidate when you get time to watch the DVR) and ask their view on the appropriate effective level of tax they would suggest for a balanced budget, and also what they think that the federal budget annualized spend should be, and what they are proposing to do to ensure that they balance, or even, heaven forbid, have a budget surplus. Other than Ron Paul, no Republican candidate actually has an economic policy that holds water, and its not just the candidates, the leader of the Republican party in Congress miscounted his fix it plan by 350Billion (thats close to those 10 companies' profits just for reference) and that was 30% of his entire project- Thirty percent out when you're adding up is incredible- he actually had gone so far as to have the bill printed for the vote when the (non party) congressional budget commitee said "Ummm, excuse me Mr Boehner, can I see the back of your prayer book where you added these up? I've a feeling you may have been double counting". Missing by that much takes effort.

p.s I know those sentences were way to long but English at SPCA wasn't a strong suit.

Back to you...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
QuoteGeithner didnt write the tax code either, the tax code is Congress' responsibility (in case you missed it TO that is the Republican controlled Congress)
And the Republican Congress did? In all seven months that they've had control ::) as Secretary of the Treasury, he's in charge of the IRS, right? I'm sure he could explain why the code is the way it is, and anyway, why stop there...what about Pelosi in the two years prior to that, what did she and the Democrats who had complete control of all three branches of Government do to curb these injustices that favor Corps and the so called wealthy  :-X
Quotethat's ten firms, could I suggest you take a look at the Wilshire 5000 current market cap 15.9 trillion dollars, thats greater than the entire national debt
Yes ten firms that wouldn't be around next year to be cleaned again...and that trend would continue But that's not important for the here and now in sticking it to the Man, is it  :o
Quotehowever I have tried to explain that the economy actually needs to increase revenue (taxes collected) cut the stupid spending (congressional and house pork, dumb programs and dumb vote getting spending) and spend government money to stimulate the economy.
Insanity is trying to do anything other than those three things (all of them by the way no cherry picking)
No cherry picking....  :D Where exactly have you advocated Cutting spending, I must have missed that
QuoteInsanity is trying to do anything other than those three things
No actually it's; "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results"
Which these bunch of inept buffoons in this administration would do well to read very slowly.
Raising taxes with the economy in the doldrums and especially with the unemployment situation the way
it is, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever  :-\
As a matter of fact, the inept policies for this empty suit is actually infact putting a strangle hold on any kick start to a recovery,
business owners and employers across the board have no idea what he's liable to come up with next and are sitting on the sidelines.
QuoteUnsurprising that you did actually end up going with the irrelevant counter punch, you were doing so well up until now. Your list from the 2009 email chain which in fact misses about 300 different taxes is completely irrelevant to this topic. You would be as well listing all of the different items that you spend money on in your weekly budget and putting beside each the federal, state, local and special agency taxes (for the record thats the list of bodies that can collect tax in the US (legally))

The issue is not the individual tax on each item, but rather the effective level of tax. Could I suggest you write your local member of congress (or favored candidate when you get time to watch the DVR) and ask their view on the appropriate effective level of tax they would suggest for a balanced budget, and also what they think that the federal budget annualized spend should be, and what they are proposing to do to ensure that they balance, or even, heaven forbid, have a budget surplus. Other than Ron Paul, no Republican candidate actually has an economic policy that holds water, and its not just the candidates, the leader of the Republican party in Congress miscounted his fix it plan by 350Billion (thats close to those 10 companies' profits just for reference) and that was 30% of his entire project- Thirty percent out when you're adding up is incredible- he actually had gone so far as to have the bill printed for the vote when the (non party) congressional budget commitee said "Ummm, excuse me Mr Boehner, can I see the back of your prayer book where you added these up? I've a feeling you may have been double counting". Missing by that much takes effort.
Irrelevant...Irrelevant,  :o you're joking right, How on Earth is the fact that we're nickel and dimed to death here with taxes irrelevant...the only irrelevance here as far as I can see is the fact that it simply doesn't suit the agenda of the tax, print, borrow and spend, spend, spend Democrats. Wise up FFS  ::)
Now who's cherry picking what's relevant and what's not when the conversation of taxes comes up  ::)

Oh and on the Balanced budget... What exactly have the Democrats or Obummer himself for that matter put forward toward a balancing the budget,
the Senate hasn't passed one in over 830 days. Even President Obama's last CLUELESS and utterly RIDICULOUS budget proposal went down in FLAMES 97-0 without even a SINGLE DEMOCRAT VOTE.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 15, 2011, 01:22:28 AM
TO
even though it isn't Fox any chance your watching 60 minutes right now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 15, 2011, 01:26:44 AM
No I'm about 3 hrs behind the golf live here on CBS,
no doubt you'll fill me in if it's exciting enough for you
to ask me  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 15, 2011, 01:45:37 AM
No, you're not watching golf live on CBS, it finished before 60 minutes started.

I'll get to your post later...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on August 15, 2011, 02:40:20 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 15, 2011, 01:22:28 AM
TO
even though it isn't Fox any chance your watching 60 minutes right now?

Just watched the piece about the corporate tax rates,  I can see why the Irish government won't budge on the issue, 600 US companies employing 1000000 people in Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 15, 2011, 03:20:59 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 15, 2011, 01:45:37 AM
No, you're not watching golf live on CBS, it finished before 60 minutes started.

I'll get to your post later...
* shakes head...you're now telling me what I'm watching on my own couch,
what part of being three hours behind live didn't you understand ???
Also since you come across as a bit of a know it all you'd know that 60 minutes
doesn't air here on the left coast til 8 pm local time!
Feel free to remove you're foot from your mouth :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 15, 2011, 04:11:57 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
In all seven months that they've had control
How long do you give them?

Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
as Secretary of the Treasury, he's in charge of the IRS, right? I'm sure he could explain why the code is the way it is
The IRS just collects tax, they do not set the IR Code- that's Congress again. nothing to do with Geithner

Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
and anyway, why stop there...what about Pelosi in the two years prior to that, what did she and the Democrats who had complete control of all three branches of Government do
Nothing- a disgraceful return
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
to curb these injustices that favor Corps and the so called wealthy  :-X
what so called wealthy? The entire code is a disgrace for rich and poor corporations and individuals and anyone who doesn't have a good lobby, or court influence and power.

Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
Quotethat's ten firms, could I suggest you take a look at the Wilshire 5000 current market cap 15.9 trillion dollars, thats greater than the entire national debt
Yes ten firms that wouldn't be around next year to be cleaned again...and that trend would continue But that's not important for the here and now in sticking it to the Man, is it  :o
what are you talking about? cleaned? sticking it to the man? who won't be around next year?
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
Quotehowever I have tried to explain that the economy actually needs to increase revenue (taxes collected) cut the stupid spending (congressional and house pork, dumb programs and dumb vote getting spending) and spend government money to stimulate the economy.
Insanity is trying to do anything other than those three things (all of them by the way no cherry picking)
No cherry picking....  :D Where exactly have you advocated Cutting spending, I must have missed that
QuoteInsanity is trying to do anything other than those three things
yeah you did miss it- read back a few posts...

Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
No actually it's; "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results"
Which these bunch of inept buffoons in this administration would do well to read very slowly.
Raising taxes with the economy in the doldrums and especially with the unemployment situation the way
it is, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever  :-\
As a matter of fact, the inept policies for this empty suit is actually infact putting a strangle hold on any kick start to a recovery,
TO, you get to hear so much BS in the media now that without the background it is fair that you have that opinion. And the rich and the biggest corporations and Fox News and political donors and the lobbyists for both political parties in the US are very very happy that you agree with them on this point.
However you are wrong, plain and simple.



Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
business owners and employers across the board have no idea what he's liable to come up with next and are sitting on the sidelines.
No idea what you're talking about here- do you feel you have a relevant point or even a coherent sentence?
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
QuoteUnsurprising that you did actually end up going with the irrelevant counter punch, you were doing so well up until now. Your list from the 2009 email chain which in fact misses about 300 different taxes is completely irrelevant to this topic. You would be as well listing all of the different items that you spend money on in your weekly budget and putting beside each the federal, state, local and special agency taxes (for the record thats the list of bodies that can collect tax in the US (legally))

The issue is not the individual tax on each item, but rather the effective level of tax. Could I suggest you write your local member of congress (or favored candidate when you get time to watch the DVR) and ask their view on the appropriate effective level of tax they would suggest for a balanced budget, and also what they think that the federal budget annualized spend should be, and what they are proposing to do to ensure that they balance, or even, heaven forbid, have a budget surplus. Other than Ron Paul, no Republican candidate actually has an economic policy that holds water, and its not just the candidates, the leader of the Republican party in Congress miscounted his fix it plan by 350Billion (thats close to those 10 companies' profits just for reference) and that was 30% of his entire project- Thirty percent out when you're adding up is incredible- he actually had gone so far as to have the bill printed for the vote when the (non party) congressional budget commitee said "Ummm, excuse me Mr Boehner, can I see the back of your prayer book where you added these up? I've a feeling you may have been double counting". Missing by that much takes effort.
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 14, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
Irrelevant...Irrelevant,  :o you're joking right, How on Earth is the fact that we're nickel and dimed to death here with taxes irrelevant...the only irrelevance here as far as I can see is the fact that it simply doesn't suit the agenda of the tax, print, borrow and spend, spend, spend Democrats. Wise up FFS  ::)
Now who's cherry picking what's relevant and what's not when the conversation of taxes comes up  ::)


Oh and on the Balanced budget... What exactly have the Democrats or Obummer himself for that matter put forward toward a balancing the budget,
the Senate hasn't passed one in over 830 days. Even President Obama's last CLUELESS and utterly RIDICULOUS budget proposal went down in FLAMES 97-0 without even a SINGLE DEMOCRAT VOTE.  ::)

I'm done with this TO, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion and you can express it however you want. You are however completely and utterly wrong, you demonstrate no understanding of the US tax system, you have no grasp on the workings of the economy in the US, you have no comprehension of government spending or its impact, you argue strongly that Tax policy should be changed by someone who doesn't control tax. The Republican Congress who does control tax hasn't made any changes in its seven months, but apparently they should be given more time, if, that is, you are even sure that they do control tax because it may be the IRS and, you know, don't they report to a Democrat? There isn't a Republican candidate with a viable economic plan and the current Democratic party are to busy trying to keep the place afloat that they haven't made a single strategic move that resonates with the public, leaving the door open for the Debt Ceiling issue to downgrade the US' credit rating.

You can't get a handle on this stuff by watching the TV "news" (and I include any news channel in the US- though I reserve particular disgust for Fox and MSNBC) All of the news channels in the US are profit driven and make money on advertising, not on telling the news, so they tell their viewers what they want to hear, and imply that opinion is fact, and editorialize events to suit whatever agenda is top of the bill payers list. Actually NPR isn't a business but it still thinks in terms of Woodstock and the hippy movement, so its agenda is just as transparent and equally painful

If you want to actually have a well informed opinion on the US economy do the research, read economists opinions, evaluate them for yourself, come up with your own thoughts don't listen to politicians and don't trust anything that you hear on TV. (3 hours behind or otherwise)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 15, 2011, 04:46:03 AM
Heganboy, this post has nothing to do with US politics/economics, but since red herrings are as plentiful as flying teabags, I just wanted to say that Jerry Hicks would be mortified to hear your comment about English at SPCA.  Though I went to the Brothers myself, I knew a lot of college lads who thought a lot of him.  Of course, if he had any part in making Paul Muldoon indecipherable, then he should be used as target practice in the handball alleys.

Anyway, HB, fight the good fight.   TO is as slippery as a Lough Neagh eel.

He should be happy that Bachman Turner Overdrive won the Iowa straw poll.  We ain't seen nothin' yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 15, 2011, 05:11:20 AM
I was never lucky enough to have been taught by Jerry, more's the pity. I got stuck with Vincentians...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 15, 2011, 12:35:42 PM
Contrary to some of the far-right rubbish being spouted on this thread, here's a man who knows a thing or two about the fecked up state of the US taxation system.

Stop Coddling the Super-Rich
By WARREN E. BUFFETT

OUR leaders have asked for "shared sacrifice." But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as "carried interest," thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they'd been long-term investors.

These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It's nice to have friends in high places.

Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.

If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot.

To understand why, you need to examine the sources of government revenue. Last year about 80 percent of these revenues came from personal income taxes and payroll taxes. The mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes. It's a different story for the middle class: typically, they fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

I didn't refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what's happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.

Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion — a staggering $227.4 million on average — but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

The taxes I refer to here include only federal income tax, but you can be sure that any payroll tax for the 400 was inconsequential compared to income. In fact, 88 of the 400 in 2008 reported no wages at all, though every one of them reported capital gains. Some of my brethren may shun work but they all like to invest. (I can relate to that.)

I know well many of the mega-rich and, by and large, they are very decent people. They love America and appreciate the opportunity this country has given them. Many have joined the Giving Pledge, promising to give most of their wealth to philanthropy. Most wouldn't mind being told to pay more in taxes as well, particularly when so many of their fellow citizens are truly suffering.

Twelve members of Congress will soon take on the crucial job of rearranging our country's finances. They've been instructed to devise a plan that reduces the 10-year deficit by at least $1.5 trillion. It's vital, however, that they achieve far more than that. Americans are rapidly losing faith in the ability of Congress to deal with our country's fiscal problems. Only action that is immediate, real and very substantial will prevent that doubt from morphing into hopelessness. That feeling can create its own reality.

Job one for the 12 is to pare down some future promises that even a rich America can't fulfill. Big money must be saved here. The 12 should then turn to the issue of revenues. I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.

But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.

Warren E. Buffett is the chairman and chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on August 15, 2011, 09:51:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vRuy0m7IjA&feature=channel_video_title


Funny this; seems Ron Paul isn't allowed win the Republican nomination despite being as popular as Bachmann. I guess its that his policies are so at odds with the Republican party but he clearly has supporters surely he's worthy of comment. He rarely gets a mention on this side of the pond, only Perry, Bachmann and Pawlenty are talked about. The Independent (UK) had a report on Iowa and he wasn't even mentioned.

It's quite staggering, perhaps he shouldn't have ran as a Republican but I guess there isn't much room or time to establish a Libertarian party this time around. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 15, 2011, 10:02:12 PM
The fact is the republicans need to tax the rich but they dont have the minerals to do it, on this issue Obama is correct but make no mistake here, Obama is the FDR and he isnt going to dig us out of the mess by spending money, when he tried that the rich got richer and awarded themselves big bonuses and the country is in undiscovered country pertaining to the defecit.

Every time he takes a hit at the polls the demos roll him out in front of a camera, the man is wonderful in front of a camera but there seems to be no substance to him, he aligned himself with the lies of Pelosi and couldnt have fcuked the economy up more if he tried.

No doubt the sheep will come out in droves next year when the elections roll around and he will kill a dictator or two and take te credit for being tough on insurgents the world over. The bottom lines is however that he is a weak president no matter what way you slice it. I was hoping for more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on August 15, 2011, 10:23:51 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/hMvca.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jimmy on August 16, 2011, 12:34:00 PM
Looks like there are more picking up on Ron Paul getting ignored. It's quite laughable (please note you need to be able to view videos from america to watch the link, I had to install and add-on to firefox to watch daily show videos).

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-15-2011/indecision-2012---corn-polled-edition---ron-paul---the-top-tier
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on August 16, 2011, 01:11:43 PM
the thing with Ron Paul though is that he will hammer social welfare. He is the very opposite of an altruist.

But then again its not like US Presidents are ever meant to do anything other than maintain the status quo. Sticking to the promises that the public elected you for is of little importance. Would Paul be any different?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 16, 2011, 05:21:47 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 15, 2011, 12:35:42 PM
Contrary to some of the far-right rubbish being spouted on this thread, here's a man who knows a thing or two about the fecked up state of the US taxation system.

Stop Coddling the Super-Rich
By WARREN E. BUFFETT

OUR leaders have asked for "shared sacrifice." But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as "carried interest," thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they'd been long-term investors.

These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It's nice to have friends in high places.

Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.

If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot.

To understand why, you need to examine the sources of government revenue. Last year about 80 percent of these revenues came from personal income taxes and payroll taxes. The mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes. It's a different story for the middle class: typically, they fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

I didn't refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what's happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.

Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion — a staggering $227.4 million on average — but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

The taxes I refer to here include only federal income tax, but you can be sure that any payroll tax for the 400 was inconsequential compared to income. In fact, 88 of the 400 in 2008 reported no wages at all, though every one of them reported capital gains. Some of my brethren may shun work but they all like to invest. (I can relate to that.)

I know well many of the mega-rich and, by and large, they are very decent people. They love America and appreciate the opportunity this country has given them. Many have joined the Giving Pledge, promising to give most of their wealth to philanthropy. Most wouldn't mind being told to pay more in taxes as well, particularly when so many of their fellow citizens are truly suffering.

Twelve members of Congress will soon take on the crucial job of rearranging our country's finances. They've been instructed to devise a plan that reduces the 10-year deficit by at least $1.5 trillion. It's vital, however, that they achieve far more than that. Americans are rapidly losing faith in the ability of Congress to deal with our country's fiscal problems. Only action that is immediate, real and very substantial will prevent that doubt from morphing into hopelessness. That feeling can create its own reality.

Job one for the 12 is to pare down some future promises that even a rich America can't fulfill. Big money must be saved here. The 12 should then turn to the issue of revenues. I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.

But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.

Warren E. Buffett is the chairman and chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=4
Notice he mentioned exceeding the million dollars a year
quite the contrast to the 250k (super rich) that Obummer has going!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 16, 2011, 06:02:53 PM
The Christian right are hypocritical vermin of the lowest order.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/436f7644-c40f-11e0-b302-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1V5brRyYC

His faith is an important part of his CV. He grabbed the national spotlight this month when he hosted a prayer rally in Houston that drew some 30,000 Christians. As they swayed with outstretched arms, he prayed for those who had lost jobs and hope. In April, as his state struggled to combat drought and contain wildfires, the governor – a global warming sceptic – sought help from above calling on people of all faiths to pray for rain.

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/08/glenn-beck-russo-cuban-afl-cio-islamist-israelis-occupying-tel-aviv.html#more-49549
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 16, 2011, 06:11:11 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 16, 2011, 05:21:47 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 15, 2011, 12:35:42 PM
Contrary to some of the far-right rubbish being spouted on this thread, here's a man who knows a thing or two about the fecked up state of the US taxation system.

Stop Coddling the Super-Rich
By WARREN E. BUFFETT

OUR leaders have asked for "shared sacrifice." But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as "carried interest," thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they'd been long-term investors.

These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It's nice to have friends in high places.

Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.

If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot.

To understand why, you need to examine the sources of government revenue. Last year about 80 percent of these revenues came from personal income taxes and payroll taxes. The mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes. It's a different story for the middle class: typically, they fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

I didn't refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what's happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.

Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion — a staggering $227.4 million on average — but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

The taxes I refer to here include only federal income tax, but you can be sure that any payroll tax for the 400 was inconsequential compared to income. In fact, 88 of the 400 in 2008 reported no wages at all, though every one of them reported capital gains. Some of my brethren may shun work but they all like to invest. (I can relate to that.)

I know well many of the mega-rich and, by and large, they are very decent people. They love America and appreciate the opportunity this country has given them. Many have joined the Giving Pledge, promising to give most of their wealth to philanthropy. Most wouldn't mind being told to pay more in taxes as well, particularly when so many of their fellow citizens are truly suffering.

Twelve members of Congress will soon take on the crucial job of rearranging our country's finances. They've been instructed to devise a plan that reduces the 10-year deficit by at least $1.5 trillion. It's vital, however, that they achieve far more than that. Americans are rapidly losing faith in the ability of Congress to deal with our country's fiscal problems. Only action that is immediate, real and very substantial will prevent that doubt from morphing into hopelessness. That feeling can create its own reality.

Job one for the 12 is to pare down some future promises that even a rich America can't fulfill. Big money must be saved here. The 12 should then turn to the issue of revenues. I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.

But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.

Warren E. Buffett is the chairman and chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=4
Notice he mentioned exceeding the million dollars a year
quite the contrast to the 250k (super rich) that Obummer has going!

I've highlighted the most relevant parts, since you seem to have a peculiar and particular blindness in such regards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 16, 2011, 08:02:59 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 16, 2011, 05:21:47 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 15, 2011, 12:35:42 PM
Contrary to some of the far-right rubbish being spouted on this thread, here's a man who knows a thing or two about the fecked up state of the US taxation system.

Stop Coddling the Super-Rich
By WARREN E. BUFFETT

OUR leaders have asked for "shared sacrifice." But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as "carried interest," thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they'd been long-term investors.

These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It's nice to have friends in high places.

Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.

If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot.

To understand why, you need to examine the sources of government revenue. Last year about 80 percent of these revenues came from personal income taxes and payroll taxes. The mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes. It's a different story for the middle class: typically, they fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

I didn't refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what's happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.

Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion — a staggering $227.4 million on average — but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

The taxes I refer to here include only federal income tax, but you can be sure that any payroll tax for the 400 was inconsequential compared to income. In fact, 88 of the 400 in 2008 reported no wages at all, though every one of them reported capital gains. Some of my brethren may shun work but they all like to invest. (I can relate to that.)

I know well many of the mega-rich and, by and large, they are very decent people. They love America and appreciate the opportunity this country has given them. Many have joined the Giving Pledge, promising to give most of their wealth to philanthropy. Most wouldn't mind being told to pay more in taxes as well, particularly when so many of their fellow citizens are truly suffering.

Twelve members of Congress will soon take on the crucial job of rearranging our country's finances. They've been instructed to devise a plan that reduces the 10-year deficit by at least $1.5 trillion. It's vital, however, that they achieve far more than that. Americans are rapidly losing faith in the ability of Congress to deal with our country's fiscal problems. Only action that is immediate, real and very substantial will prevent that doubt from morphing into hopelessness. That feeling can create its own reality.

Job one for the 12 is to pare down some future promises that even a rich America can't fulfill. Big money must be saved here. The 12 should then turn to the issue of revenues. I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.

But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.

Warren E. Buffett is the chairman and chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=4
Notice he mentioned exceeding the million dollars a year
quite the contrast to the 250k (super rich) that Obummer has going!

Because $250,000 a year is below the breadline?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 16, 2011, 08:14:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2011, 08:02:59 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 16, 2011, 05:21:47 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 15, 2011, 12:35:42 PM
Contrary to some of the far-right rubbish being spouted on this thread, here's a man who knows a thing or two about the fecked up state of the US taxation system.

Stop Coddling the Super-Rich
By WARREN E. BUFFETT

OUR leaders have asked for "shared sacrifice." But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as "carried interest," thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they'd been long-term investors.

These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It's nice to have friends in high places.

Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.

If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot.

To understand why, you need to examine the sources of government revenue. Last year about 80 percent of these revenues came from personal income taxes and payroll taxes. The mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes. It's a different story for the middle class: typically, they fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

I didn't refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what's happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.

Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion — a staggering $227.4 million on average — but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

The taxes I refer to here include only federal income tax, but you can be sure that any payroll tax for the 400 was inconsequential compared to income. In fact, 88 of the 400 in 2008 reported no wages at all, though every one of them reported capital gains. Some of my brethren may shun work but they all like to invest. (I can relate to that.)

I know well many of the mega-rich and, by and large, they are very decent people. They love America and appreciate the opportunity this country has given them. Many have joined the Giving Pledge, promising to give most of their wealth to philanthropy. Most wouldn't mind being told to pay more in taxes as well, particularly when so many of their fellow citizens are truly suffering.

Twelve members of Congress will soon take on the crucial job of rearranging our country's finances. They've been instructed to devise a plan that reduces the 10-year deficit by at least $1.5 trillion. It's vital, however, that they achieve far more than that. Americans are rapidly losing faith in the ability of Congress to deal with our country's fiscal problems. Only action that is immediate, real and very substantial will prevent that doubt from morphing into hopelessness. That feeling can create its own reality.

Job one for the 12 is to pare down some future promises that even a rich America can't fulfill. Big money must be saved here. The 12 should then turn to the issue of revenues. I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.

But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.

Warren E. Buffett is the chairman and chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=4
Notice he mentioned exceeding the million dollars a year
quite the contrast to the 250k (super rich) that Obummer has going!

Because $250,000 a year is below the breadline?
Is it a mark of wealth?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on August 16, 2011, 08:17:53 PM
For a household - not specifically depending on the situation - but anyone household earning 250 K is in fantastic shape.

For an individual salary - it's a mark of wealth - for sure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 16, 2011, 08:20:12 PM
Reno...Maybe.., here, not so much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on August 16, 2011, 08:23:14 PM
So where would it sit in the breadline to wealth scale? Anyone thinking 250K wont get the job done needs to cut back a little in house spending...

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Location=San-Francisco-CA/Salary (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Location=San-Francisco-CA/Salary)

. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer $105,214         
Software Engineer $80,011   
Executive Assistant $57,796   
Attorney / Lawyer $101,936   
Administrative Assistant $40,676   
Marketing Manager $66,715   
Project Manager, Construction $86,837

Popular Employers  Salary Range
 
University of California, San Francisco $39,380 - $143,611
Wells Fargo Bank $41,419 - $124,184
Oracle Corp. $61,042 - $155,155
The Gap Inc. $50,704 - $122,960
Genentech, Inc. $60,729 - $153,558


 
Master of Business Administration (MBA) $57,500 - $163,902
Juris Doctor (JD) $66,819 - $187,195
Bachelor of Science (BS/BSc/SB) $70,412 - $105,646
attorney $71,000 - $127,750

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 16, 2011, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on August 16, 2011, 08:23:14 PM
So where would it sit in the breadline to wealth scale? Anyone thinking 250K wont get the job done needs to cut back a little in house spending...

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Location=San-Francisco-CA/Salary (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Location=San-Francisco-CA/Salary)

. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer $105,214         
Software Engineer $80,011   
Executive Assistant $57,796   
Attorney / Lawyer $101,936   
Administrative Assistant $40,676   
Marketing Manager $66,715   
Project Manager, Construction $86,837

Popular Employers  Salary Range
 
University of California, San Francisco $39,380 - $143,611
Wells Fargo Bank $41,419 - $124,184
Oracle Corp. $61,042 - $155,155
The Gap Inc. $50,704 - $122,960
Genentech, Inc. $60,729 - $153,558


 
Master of Business Administration (MBA) $57,500 - $163,902
Juris Doctor (JD) $66,819 - $187,195
Bachelor of Science (BS/BSc/SB) $70,412 - $105,646
attorney $71,000 - $127,750
Not at all...sure just go to the bank and borrow more,
Be careful..that kind of fiscally responsible talk might get you accused of being a teabagger :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2011, 09:38:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2011, 08:02:59 PM
Because $250,000 a year is below the breadline?

I'd like to say it depends on who you talk to, but really it depends on who you talk to as well as who they're talking about and when. For example Fox News say that $250,000 isn't a lot of money in America today when the topic of debate is taxing the rich. But when the exact same commentators are talking about teachers who are fighting to protect their collective bargaining rights in Wisconsin, the $60,000 salaries of teachers are the highest in all creation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 16, 2011, 10:46:45 PM
TO, where do you live that 250K would not put you in fantastic shape, Beverley Hills?  What, are you a reincarnation of Jed Clampett?  Are you yourself subsisting on a paltry 150K?

All questions are, of course, rhetorical since you seem averse to definitive answers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2011, 11:02:13 PM
(http://wonkette.com/assets/resources/2008/02/loldax-thumb.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 23, 2011, 04:09:05 PM
Especially for the resident Fox moron

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/with-friends-like-glenn-beck-1.380155

With friends like Glenn Beck...

Glenn Beck has used his media platforms to promote secular anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists and evangelical end-times prophets. What these two groups have in common is an obsession with Jews and the belief that Jews control and manipulate the lives and destiny of non-Jews.

By Rachel Tabachnick Tags: anti-Semitism Glenn Beck Knesset
   
Israel's international standing and relationship with Jewish-Americans is threatened as Israel is increasingly linked to right-wing political agendas in the United States. This situation has been exacerbated as controversial American broadcaster Glenn Beck has tried to remake himself into Israel's champion. Beck, who is currently in Israel to lead his "Restoring Courage" rally in Jerusalem, has become a marginal and toxic figure in the United States. So much so that Fox News ended his daily show earlier this year.
Beck has used his media platforms to promote secular anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists and evangelical end-times prophets. What these two groups have in common is an obsession with Jews and the belief that Jews control and manipulate the lives and destiny of non-Jews.
Although Beck is a convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism ), he has developed close ties with a group of evangelicals who are career Christian Zionists. Beck headlined this year's conference of Christians United for Israel (CUFI ), founded by televangelist John Hagee. Hagee had appeared several times on Beck's show, including one where they speculated the earth as we know it would end within 20 years.Beck's embrace by Israeli leaders is further indication to Americans that support for Israel is becoming linked to an extreme political agenda in the United States. This threatens to alienate Jews and Christians, Democrats and Republicans.
Ironically, this alienation of Israel is seen by Christian Zionists as fulfilling end-times prophecy, which, they claim, requires a second Jewish holocaust before Jesus returns. Surviving Jews must accept Jesus before a 1000-year Christian utopia, ruled from Jerusalem, can begin.
Beck's cultivation of Israeli leaders follows, step by step, the instructions Christian Zionists have used to gain access to Jewish communities and leaders. One of the most popular of these manuals is the 2001 book, "Your People Shall Be My People," by Don Finto. Finto's network of evangelists is encouraging churches around the world to "bless Israel" by supporting Messianic Jewish ministries and proselytizing Jews. His book has been promoted internationally, including by directors of Hagee's CUFI.
Finto's book provides instructions to: 1 ) avoid overt proselytizing, 2 ) vocally repent of the Holocaust, 3 ) tell Jews that Christian Zionist support is modeled after the biblical story of Ruth with no strings attached, and 4 ) emphasize that Christian Zionists are Israel's only friends in an increasingly hostile world.
Simultaneously these evangelists help to foment hostility toward Jews by teaching a narrative in which Jews hold power over the future of Gentiles.
One week before announcing his candidacy for president, Texas Governor Rick Perry led an all-day prayer rally in a stadium in Houston. Don Finto led the prayer for Israel and openly called for Israelis and all Jews to accept Jesus in order to bring "a great revival to the entire world."Fortunately, most Christians today do not accept this interpretation of the bible and do not believe they must convert Jews or promote the evangelization of Israel in order to bring about a Christian utopia on earth. Unfortunately, some Jewish leaders are determined to help Glenn Beck and Christian Zionists camouflage their attack on Jews and Judaism, apparently believing that this is in Israel's best interest.
Judging from the warm reception Beck received at the Knesset last month, many Israeli public figures are unaware of just how problematic he is. If many of them decide to participate in his Jerusalem rally, they risk identifying Israel with all he represents. Israel's relationship with mainstream Jewish-Americans will suffer immense damage, as will its international image.

The writer is an independent researcher specializing in Christian Zionism in the United States.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 23, 2011, 11:05:15 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 10:29:35 PM
I see he's taken off on vacation to Martha's Vineyard too while the house burns down around us here, that in itself would normally piss me off in highlighting a complete lack of leadership, but actually it's great for the country when he fcuks off out of town...he's not around to fcuk anything up for a week or is it nine days !
The stock market should rebound nicely in his absence :)
;D
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stocks-jump-Dow-notches-best-apf-248753887.html

You couldn't find time to stay a while longer Mr. Obama, could you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 24, 2011, 03:27:55 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 23, 2011, 11:05:15 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 10:29:35 PM
I see he's taken off on vacation to Martha's Vineyard too while the house burns down around us here, that in itself would normally piss me off in highlighting a complete lack of leadership, but actually it's great for the country when he fcuks off out of town...he's not around to fcuk anything up for a week or is it nine days !
The stock market should rebound nicely in his absence :)
;D
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stocks-jump-Dow-notches-best-apf-248753887.html

You couldn't find time to stay a while longer Mr. Obama, could you?

Dow Jones

Jan 20 1993 3,241.95
Clinton (+ 7336.29)
Jan 20 2001 10,578.24
Bush (- 2629.15)
Jan 20 2009 7,949.09
Obama (+ 3227.67)
Today 11,176.76
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on August 24, 2011, 03:32:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-McpNtHet3w
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on August 24, 2011, 04:16:28 AM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on August 24, 2011, 03:32:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-McpNtHet3w
Fecking racist...oh, wait!   ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 25, 2011, 03:01:18 PM
Quote from: dec on August 24, 2011, 03:27:55 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 23, 2011, 11:05:15 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 12, 2011, 10:29:35 PM
I see he's taken off on vacation to Martha's Vineyard too while the house burns down around us here, that in itself would normally piss me off in highlighting a complete lack of leadership, but actually it's great for the country when he fcuks off out of town...he's not around to fcuk anything up for a week or is it nine days !
The stock market should rebound nicely in his absence :)
;D
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stocks-jump-Dow-notches-best-apf-248753887.html

You couldn't find time to stay a while longer Mr. Obama, could you?

Dow Jones

Jan 20 1993 3,241.95
Clinton (+ 7336.29)
Jan 20 2001 10,578.24
Bush (- 2629.15)
Jan 20 2009 7,949.09
Obama (+ 3227.67)
Today 11,176.76

Some interesting figures there Dec.

Bush or no Bush the 2001/2011 comparison is scary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 02, 2011, 12:05:20 AM
Can't believe nobody has picked up on this . . .

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/michele-bachmann-wants-to-take-100000-irish-jobs-back-to-the-us-212238-Aug2011/

QuoteTHE US PRESIDENTIAL candidate Michele Bachmann has said she wants 100,000 jobs that American companies have created in Ireland to be brought back to the United States.

The Republican congresswoman, a favourite of the Tea Party movement, was speaking this weekend at an event in Florida where she gave what the New York times described as her most detailed speech yet about her plans for the economy were she to win the election next year.

As Bachmann looked to outline ways in which to address America's currently high-level of unemployment, she pointed to the example of Ireland.

She said:

    There are over 600 American companies that have gone to Ireland because of the tax rate. Over 100,000 jobs. I want those 100,000 jobs back in the United States.

Bachmann believed her country's current economic policies were exiling corporations to countries like Ireland, the National Journal reports, and believed one way of creating jobs was tempting them back.

IDA Ireland has confirmed to TheJournal.ie that, according to its annual report for 2010, there are 491 IDA client companies of US origin in Ireland which employ exactly 99,772 people.

It's not the first time Bachmann has invoked Ireland in her speeches.

She claims to have visited our shores in 2007, meeting US soldiers and military officials, a claim that blogger Maman Poulet appears to have discredited.

Bachmann has emerged as one of the frontrunners to secure the Republican Party's nomination to face Barack Obama in the presidential election next year, after she recently won the Iowa straw poll, an early test of voter sentiment in the key early caucus state.

However her campaign has been hit by comments she is alleged to have made in a lecture that she gave in 2004 in which she said that being gay "is part of Satan" whilst she has had to play down issues surrounding chronic migraines she is said to suffer from.

Is this what you've got to take on Obama TO?? Dear lord Obama was able to find himself an Irish Grandad to help seal the Irish Vote yet this buck eejit wants to get rid of them all in one fell swoop.

Also does she know anything about Business? How are US companies supposed to trade in the Global Economy being solely based in the US? Surely anyone hoping to crack the European Market needs some kind of base there!! How can Google or Microsoft provide Tech Support to Paris or Berlin from Portland or San Francisco.

If she was going to pick on somebody would she not have been better served by alienating the Chinese whose Economy is still growing and is more of a threat to the US than fecking Ireland. I would imagine the 100,000 jobs US companies provide in Ireland would be dwarfed by the number that are outsourced or located in China.

Looks like 4 more years if this is the kind of weak idiot the Republicans are trumpeting!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 02, 2011, 12:05:20 AM
Can't believe nobody has picked up on this . . .

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/michele-bachmann-wants-to-take-100000-irish-jobs-back-to-the-us-212238-Aug2011/

QuoteTHE US PRESIDENTIAL candidate Michele Bachmann has said she wants 100,000 jobs that American companies have created in Ireland to be brought back to the United States.

The Republican congresswoman, a favourite of the Tea Party movement, was speaking this weekend at an event in Florida where she gave what the New York times described as her most detailed speech yet about her plans for the economy were she to win the election next year.

As Bachmann looked to outline ways in which to address America's currently high-level of unemployment, she pointed to the example of Ireland.

She said:

    There are over 600 American companies that have gone to Ireland because of the tax rate. Over 100,000 jobs. I want those 100,000 jobs back in the United States.

Bachmann believed her country's current economic policies were exiling corporations to countries like Ireland, the National Journal reports, and believed one way of creating jobs was tempting them back.

IDA Ireland has confirmed to TheJournal.ie that, according to its annual report for 2010, there are 491 IDA client companies of US origin in Ireland which employ exactly 99,772 people.

It's not the first time Bachmann has invoked Ireland in her speeches.

She claims to have visited our shores in 2007, meeting US soldiers and military officials, a claim that blogger Maman Poulet appears to have discredited.

Bachmann has emerged as one of the frontrunners to secure the Republican Party's nomination to face Barack Obama in the presidential election next year, after she recently won the Iowa straw poll, an early test of voter sentiment in the key early caucus state.

However her campaign has been hit by comments she is alleged to have made in a lecture that she gave in 2004 in which she said that being gay "is part of Satan" whilst she has had to play down issues surrounding chronic migraines she is said to suffer from.

Is this what you've got to take on Obama TO?? Dear lord Obama was able to find himself an Irish Grandad to help seal the Irish Vote yet this buck eejit wants to get rid of them all in one fell swoop.

Also does she know anything about Business? How are US companies supposed to trade in the Global Economy being solely based in the US? Surely anyone hoping to crack the European Market needs some kind of base there!! How can Google or Microsoft provide Tech Support to Paris or Berlin from Portland or San Francisco.

If she was going to pick on somebody would she not have been better served by alienating the Chinese whose Economy is still growing and is more of a threat to the US than fecking Ireland. I would imagine the 100,000 jobs US companies provide in Ireland would be dwarfed by the number that are outsourced or located in China.

Looks like 4 more years if this is the kind of weak idiot the Republicans are trumpeting!!
Its that kind of pandering to lobbyists that has us where we are in this Country.
I believe it was the Corp tax rates she was referring to and anyway, perhaps like
myself, she's sick and tired of funding/supporting/carrying Countries that hate us  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 02, 2011, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 02, 2011, 12:05:20 AM
Can't believe nobody has picked up on this . . .

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/michele-bachmann-wants-to-take-100000-irish-jobs-back-to-the-us-212238-Aug2011/

QuoteTHE US PRESIDENTIAL candidate Michele Bachmann has said she wants 100,000 jobs that American companies have created in Ireland to be brought back to the United States.

The Republican congresswoman, a favourite of the Tea Party movement, was speaking this weekend at an event in Florida where she gave what the New York times described as her most detailed speech yet about her plans for the economy were she to win the election next year.

As Bachmann looked to outline ways in which to address America's currently high-level of unemployment, she pointed to the example of Ireland.

She said:

    There are over 600 American companies that have gone to Ireland because of the tax rate. Over 100,000 jobs. I want those 100,000 jobs back in the United States.

Bachmann believed her country's current economic policies were exiling corporations to countries like Ireland, the National Journal reports, and believed one way of creating jobs was tempting them back.

IDA Ireland has confirmed to TheJournal.ie that, according to its annual report for 2010, there are 491 IDA client companies of US origin in Ireland which employ exactly 99,772 people.

It's not the first time Bachmann has invoked Ireland in her speeches.

She claims to have visited our shores in 2007, meeting US soldiers and military officials, a claim that blogger Maman Poulet appears to have discredited.

Bachmann has emerged as one of the frontrunners to secure the Republican Party's nomination to face Barack Obama in the presidential election next year, after she recently won the Iowa straw poll, an early test of voter sentiment in the key early caucus state.

However her campaign has been hit by comments she is alleged to have made in a lecture that she gave in 2004 in which she said that being gay "is part of Satan" whilst she has had to play down issues surrounding chronic migraines she is said to suffer from.

Is this what you've got to take on Obama TO?? Dear lord Obama was able to find himself an Irish Grandad to help seal the Irish Vote yet this buck eejit wants to get rid of them all in one fell swoop.

Also does she know anything about Business? How are US companies supposed to trade in the Global Economy being solely based in the US? Surely anyone hoping to crack the European Market needs some kind of base there!! How can Google or Microsoft provide Tech Support to Paris or Berlin from Portland or San Francisco.

If she was going to pick on somebody would she not have been better served by alienating the Chinese whose Economy is still growing and is more of a threat to the US than fecking Ireland. I would imagine the 100,000 jobs US companies provide in Ireland would be dwarfed by the number that are outsourced or located in China.

Looks like 4 more years if this is the kind of weak idiot the Republicans are trumpeting!!
Its that kind of pandering to lobbyists that has us where we are in this Country.
I believe it was the Corp tax rates she was referring to and anyway, perhaps like
myself, she's sick and tired of funding/supporting/carrying Countries that hate us  ;)

Yes because the last Republican President didn't go to the Far East to "support" a Country that hates you?!!

It wasn't just the Corp Tax rates she was referring to. These companies need a European base and does she honestly expect that should America drop their Corporation Tax rate to the level of Ireland that suddenly 100,000 jobs will spring up out of nowhere from Ireland?!! She's delusional and a halfwit like the rest of the Gombeens in the Tea Party... another Sarah Pailin!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 05:11:10 PM
And you're an ignoramus...set down the guardian there and read what I wrote again, slowly this time! Any half wit would know that someone like her with her view on immigration surely doesn't concern herself with what the Irish lobby in Washington thinks unlike the embarrassing empty suit throwing pint's into him in Ireland like he gives a fcuk and you gombeens lapping it up  ::)

The liberal hate machine is gearing up nicely!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 05:17:20 PM
How's about attacking the inept disaster that is 2011instead of what may or may not be in 2013 :-X

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/09/02/morning-bell-zero-new-jobs-in-america/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell#comments
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 05:52:44 PM
Can't believe none of ye picked up on this... actually I can  :-X
Way to go Barrack  :o

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/white-house-backed-solar-solyndra-company-collapses/story?id=14420755
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 04, 2011, 04:16:47 PM
That's an interesting opinion piece from the right wing "think tank" the heritage group.



Quote from: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 05:17:20 PM
How's about attacking the inept disaster that is 2011instead of what may or may not be in 2013 :-X

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/09/02/morning-bell-zero-new-jobs-in-america/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell#comments
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 04, 2011, 04:23:03 PM
the top earning 25 CEOs in the US earn more than their companies pay in federal tax...

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/206539/20110831/25-top-ceos-earn-more-than-federal-income-tax-payments-in-2010.htm

Twenty-five of the nation's best paid chief executive officers earned more in salary and other compensation in 2010 than their companies' entire federal income tax expenses, according to a report by the Institute for Policy Studies.


General Electric, led by CEO Jeffrey Immelt, was the most profitable of the 25 U.S. corporations that paid more in CEO compensation than federal income taxes in 2010.

The report, titled "Executive Excess 2011: The Massive CEO Rewards For Tax Dodging", examined 100 publicly traded U.S. corporations with the highest-paid CEOs. It found that companies whose CEOs' compensation exceeded its reported tax expense in 2010 had average global profits of $1.9 billion.

Big-name companies such as General Electric Co., Verizon Communications Inc., Boeing Co. and Dow Chemical Co. were included in the list.

The group said its findings illustrate the need for an overhaul of the U.S. tax code. In particular, it shows how some of the country's most profitable organizations are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on lobbying for corporate tax loopholes while also shifting profits to offshore locations to avoid the sting of the Internal Revenue Service.

"Instead of sharing responsibility for addressing our nation's fiscal challenges, corporations are rewarding CEOs for aggressive tax avoidance," said Chuck Collins, a senior scholar at IPS who co-authored the report.

General Electric, led by CEO Jeff Immelt, was the most lucrative of the 25 firms. The company, which ranked 14th among U.S. firms in global profitability, received a $3.3 billion tax refund, despite reporting $5.1 billion in U.S. pre-tax income.

Meanwhile, Stanley Black & Decker CEO John Lundgren was the highest paid executive on the list, raking in $32.6 million, while the company got a $75 million tax refund.

Lundgren received a 253 percent pay increase even though the March 2010 merger between Stanley Works and Black & Decker is expected to result in 4,000 layoffs. Moreover, 61 percent of the company's shareholders reportedly opposed company executive pay practices at the organization's most recent annual meeting.

To top it off, the report found that last year, S&P 500 CEO's collected $10.8 million in average compensation, a 27.8 percent increase from 2009. However, the gap between CEO and the average U.S. worker pay continued to rise, reaching 325-to-1 last year compared to 263-to-1 in 2009.

These corporations avoid hefty income tax payments through a variety of tax-avoidance techniques. While the report said some of the tax breaks can have redeeming social value - such as incentives that encourage green energy transitions - they only play a minor role in many of the companies' massive tax refunds.

One of the most popular tax-dodging strategies is the offshoring of corporate activity to "tax havens" in low or no-tax jurisdictions. Eighteen of the 25 firms highlighted in the study had 556 tax haven subsidiaries in the last year, which reportedly costs the federal treasury about $100 billion a year.

"These havens are speeding the transfer of wealth out of local communities and the global south into the bank accounts of the planet's wealthiest and most powerful," the report stated.

The prevalence of such accounting games has severely lowered the corporate share of federal revenue. In 1945, U.S. corporate income taxes added up to 35 percent of all federal government revenue, compared to 9 percent in 2011. Plus, the effective income tax rates for corporations have also plummeted. In 1952, it was 52.8 percent while in 2010 in was just 10.5 percent.

Despite the extent and publicity of the federal government's financial woes, the report concluded there is no sign that the corporate tax system will truly be reformed anytime soon.  However, a previous IPS analysis found that reversing tax giveaways on corporations and the nation's wealthiest demographic could raise $4 trillion within the next decade and avert possible government shutdowns.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 04, 2011, 04:39:45 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 05:52:44 PM
Can't believe none of ye picked up on this... actually I can  :-X
Way to go Barrack  :o

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/white-house-backed-solar-solyndra-company-collapses/story?id=14420755

TO, absolutely right, Barrack Obama just personally guaranteed (certainly not the US department of Energy) a loan for a tech company in the US that employed 1100 people that before the investment was made had an expected market cap of $2BN US.  (http://gigaom.com/cleantech/solyndras-estimated-market-cap-up-to-2b-report/)

The company has entered into chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in order to protect the Intellectual property it owns from creditors. There are many reasons given for this, a couple include that the Chinese competition it faces are completely state owned businesses that are run at a loss in order for the Chinese to own the solar market (at the expense of the US economy that you state you are so concerned about), another is that given the massive investment costs to produce solar power technology that the political pressure in the US to continue with backing oil companies at the expense of other technologies is worrying investors who feel that the the regulatory and political state of the US is stacked against any form of clean technology.

Or of course you could just skim the headlines and blame Obama for something that you think supports your political viewpoint...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 04, 2011, 05:49:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2011, 04:16:47 PM
That's an interesting opinion piece from the right wing "think tank" the heritage group.



Quote from: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 05:17:20 PM
How's about attacking the inept disaster that is 2011instead of what may or may not be in 2013 :-X

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/09/02/morning-bell-zero-new-jobs-in-america/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell#comments

That'd be the same Heritage Foundation who once claimed that the Bush tax cuts would lead to the net creation of 1.6 million jobs

(http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/5E243407E364F7A4623024D002A9DAB8-1.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 06:04:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 04, 2011, 05:49:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2011, 04:16:47 PM
That's an interesting opinion piece from the right wing "think tank" the heritage group.



Quote from: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 05:17:20 PM
How's about attacking the inept disaster that is 2011instead of what may or may not be in 2013 :-X

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/09/02/morning-bell-zero-new-jobs-in-america/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell#comments

That'd be the same Heritage Foundation who once claimed that the Bush tax cuts would lead to the net creation of 1.6 million jobs

(http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/5E243407E364F7A4623024D002A9DAB8-1.gif)
That's all you've got  :D  true to form... you have to go back to 2001 to find a reason to shoot
the messenger rather than focus on the current article highlighting just how much of an epic failure Obama has been and the further colossal damage he has caused this country  ::)

What's funny is, I'm constantly hounded and insulted for what I may or may not read but the
realization hasn't seemed to sink in yet to the intellects on the board how it is that I've been right all along on this fraud and you lads were all oh so wrong  ;D



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2011, 07:31:42 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 04, 2011, 05:49:55 PM
That'd be the same Heritage Foundation who once claimed that the Bush tax cuts would lead to the net creation of 1.6 million jobs

http://www.youtube.com/embed/VcJohfS4vTQ (http://www.youtube.com/embed/VcJohfS4vTQ)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2011, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 06:04:57 PM
I'm constantly hounded and insulted for what I may or may not read
(http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/music/violin-011.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 link=topic=11632.msg1013761#msg1013761  date=1315334014
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 06:04:57 PM
I'm constantly hounded and insulted for what I may or may not read
(http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/music/violin-011.gif)
:-[...yet another empty vessel, echo chambered non-response rather than
face the music and explain how, with all of the "vastly superior" media outlets that you lads subscribe to... could have possibly gotten this clown oh so terribly wrong   :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 06, 2011, 09:25:27 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 06:04:57 PM
That's all you've got  :D  true to form... you have to go back to 2001 to find a reason to shoot
the messenger rather than focus on the current article highlighting just how much of an epic failure Obama has been and the further colossal damage he has caused this country  ::)

What's funny is, I'm constantly hounded and insulted for what I may or may not read but the
realization hasn't seemed to sink in yet to the intellects on the board how it is that I've been right all along on this fraud and you lads were all oh so wrong  ;D

You claim that people criticise you for things you haven't read. It'd be swell if you actually bothered reading what you are purporting to be responding to. The Heritage Foundation claimed in 2001 that cutting taxes would lead to 1.6 extra million jobs. They were utterly, profoundly, completely wrong. They're now claiming the same thing will work in 2011. These were the guys who Paul Ryan used to support his budget plan (http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/04/05/200459/paul-ryans-tax-plan-based-on-discredited-heritage-foundation-analysis-that-forecast-bush-boom/), a turn of events that caused people to actually check out what they had to say. This led to such widespread ridicule that they deleted the plan from their website and pretended it never existed. You call it shooting the messenger. I call it ignoring people who have a record in being utterly, profoundly, completely wrong.

And before say that I worship at the altar of Obama, I do not. I subscribe to Paul Krugman's philosophy on the current crisis, one that a) has been highly critical of Obama, and b) has consistently been correct in predicting the outcome of policy choices
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2011, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 09:08:08 PM
:-[...yet another empty vessel, echo chambered non-response rather than
face the music and explain how, with all of the "vastly superior" media outlets that you lads subscribe to... could have possibly gotten this clown oh so terribly wrong   :o
You think this clown would have done a better job? 
(http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images-4/sarah-palin-wink.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 10:44:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2011, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 09:08:08 PM
:-[...yet another empty vessel, echo chambered non-response rather than
face the music and explain how, with all of the "vastly superior" media outlets that you lads subscribe to... could have possibly gotten this clown oh so terribly wrong   :o
You think this clown would have done a better job? 
(http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images-4/sarah-palin-wink.jpg)
Remind me of when exactly that she ran for president?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 10:52:55 PM
QuoteIt'd be swell if you actually bothered reading what you are purporting to be responding to.
It's be swell then if you'd post exactly what it is you're trying to get across... That graph that you posted was from 2001 and I told you as much.
QuoteYou call it shooting the messenger. I call it ignoring people who have a record in being utterly, profoundly, completely wrong.
Does that go for Obummer's record as well then  ???
Quote
And before say that I worship at the altar of Obama, I do not. I subscribe to Paul Krugman's philosophy on the current crisis, one that a) has been highly critical of Obama, and b) has consistently been correct in predicting the outcome of policy choices
Is this the one;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/paul-krugman-fake-alien-invasion_n_926995.html

I rest my case in dealing with you fecking clowns  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2011, 11:05:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 10:44:51 PM
Remind me of when exactly that she ran for president?

She ran for VP as a running mate to a man who was so old that he would have dropped dead from heart failure long before now if (god forbid) he won the election. Hence, she'd be President now. Scary thought, isn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 06, 2011, 11:07:53 PM
So someone explained the difference in a President and a vice President since you posted it...got it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 07, 2011, 12:41:46 AM
That's nice. Who do you think would be the better President? Obama or Sarah "I'm gonna be a media whore for another few months by making them think I'm going to run" Palin?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 07, 2011, 01:12:09 AM
Neither of them!...try to get up a bit earlier to come with questions like that FFS ::)
What's with the hateful fascination with Palin anyway?
The shine has come well and truly off of the anointed when you're now reduced
to comparing him to Palin ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 07, 2011, 01:26:44 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 07, 2011, 01:12:09 AM
The shine has come well and truly off of the anointed when you're now reduced
to comparing him to Palin ;)

So you admit that she's a brain-dead bimbo who's not even fit to lick Obama's boots? I suppose that's progress.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 07, 2011, 04:07:08 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 07, 2011, 01:26:44 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 07, 2011, 01:12:09 AM
The shine has come well and truly off of the anointed when you're now reduced
to comparing him to Palin ;)

So you admit that she's a brain-dead bimbo who's not even fit to lick Obama's boots? I suppose that's progress.
Jeez, hardly noticed your little immature switcharoo there ::)
You sir... are an out and out clown!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on September 07, 2011, 04:31:03 AM
TO, sorry to be pedantic, but a few panels up you said, "I rest my case in dealing with you fecking clowns", but now you're engaging with one of these "clowns".  Please be true to your word.  Your case is rested.  Let it rest in peace.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 07, 2011, 08:34:15 PM
Too late and no...you're not a bit sorry!
Where's the fun in letting it go when there's
clearly still vast amounts of denial on here
that has to be dealt with :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 07, 2011, 10:05:00 PM
The internet is amazing. It would never have been possible to sit at home an ocean away and watch this
video when Bush 1 was in charge. This man is also from Texas and he could be the Republican candidate for President. .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c5lDszsw68&NR=1

Jesus is of course an American. He wants 1% of Americans to control 23% of all income.
Never mind the what the Tea Party have done to f**k the economy.
Repent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVHhn-c3Kr4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 10, 2011, 05:55:47 PM
Just for TO,

a pro Sarah Palin piece in the New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/10/us/10iht-currents10.html

Some of Sarah Palin's Ideas Cross the Political Divide
By ANAND GIRIDHARADAS
Published: September 9, 2011

 

CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS — Let us begin by confessing that, if Sarah Palin surfaced to say something intelligent and wise and fresh about the present American condition, many of us would fail to hear it.

That is not how we're primed to see Ms. Palin. A pugnacious Tea Partyer? Sure. A woman of the people? Yup. A Mama Grizzly? You betcha.

But something curious happened when Ms. Palin strode onto the stage last weekend at a Tea Party event in Indianola, Iowa. Along with her familiar and predictable swipes at President Barack Obama and the "far left," she delivered a devastating indictment of the entire U.S. political establishment — left, right and center — and pointed toward a way of transcending the presently unbridgeable political divide.

The next day, the "lamestream" media, as she calls it, played into her fantasy of it by ignoring the ideas she unfurled and dwelling almost entirely on the will-she-won't-she question of her presidential ambitions.

So here is something I never thought I would write: a column about Sarah Palin's ideas.

There was plenty of the usual Palin schtick — words that make clear that she is not speaking to everyone but to a particular strain of American: "The working men and women of this country, you got up off your couch, you came down from the deer stand, you came out of the duck blind, you got off the John Deere, and we took to the streets, and we took to the town halls, and we ended up at the ballot box."

But when her throat was cleared at last, Ms. Palin had something considerably more substantive to say.

She made three interlocking points. First, that the United States is now governed by a "permanent political class," drawn from both parties, that is increasingly cut off from the concerns of regular people. Second, that these Republicans and Democrats have allied with big business to mutual advantage to create what she called "corporate crony capitalism." Third, that the real political divide in the United States may no longer be between friends and foes of Big Government, but between friends and foes of vast, remote, unaccountable institutions (both public and private).

In supporting her first point, about the permanent political class, she attacked both parties' tendency to talk of spending cuts while spending more and more; to stoke public anxiety about a credit downgrade, but take a vacation anyway; to arrive in Washington of modest means and then somehow ride the gravy train to fabulous wealth. She observed that 7 of the 10 wealthiest counties in the United States happen to be suburbs of the nation's capital.

Her second point, about money in politics, helped to explain the first. The permanent class stays in power because it positions itself between two deep troughs: the money spent by the government and the money spent by big companies to secure decisions from government that help them make more money.

"Do you want to know why nothing ever really gets done?" she said, referring to politicians. "It's because there's nothing in it for them. They've got a lot of mouths to feed — a lot of corporate lobbyists and a lot of special interests that are counting on them to keep the good times and the money rolling along."

Because her party has agitated for the wholesale deregulation of money in politics and the unshackling of lobbyists, these will be heard in some quarters as sacrilegious words.

Ms. Palin's third point was more striking still: in contrast to the sweeping paeans to capitalism and the free market delivered by the Republican presidential candidates whose ranks she has yet to join, she sought to make a distinction between good capitalists and bad ones. The good ones, in her telling, are those small businesses that take risks and sink and swim in the churning market; the bad ones are well-connected megacorporations that live off bailouts, dodge taxes and profit terrifically while creating no jobs.

Strangely, she was saying things that liberals might like, if not for Ms. Palin's having said them.

"This is not the capitalism of free men and free markets, of innovation and hard work and ethics, of sacrifice and of risk," she said of the crony variety. She added: "It's the collusion of big government and big business and big finance to the detriment of all the rest — to the little guys. It's a slap in the face to our small business owners — the true entrepreneurs, the job creators accounting for 70 percent of the jobs in America."

Is there a hint of a political breakthrough hiding in there?

The political conversation in the United States is paralyzed by a simplistic division of labor. Democrats protect that portion of human flourishing that is threatened by big money and enhanced by government action. Republicans protect that portion of human flourishing that is threatened by big government and enhanced by the free market.

What is seldom said is that human flourishing is a complex and delicate thing, and that we needn't choose whether government or the market jeopardizes it more, because both can threaten it at the same time.

Ms. Palin may be hinting at a new political alignment that would pit a vigorous localism against a kind of national-global institutionalism.

On one side would be those Americans who believe in the power of vast, well-developed institutions like Goldman Sachs, the Teamsters Union, General Electric, Google and the U.S. Department of Education to make the world better. On the other side would be people who believe that power, whether public or private, becomes corrupt and unresponsive the more remote and more anonymous it becomes; they would press to live in self-contained, self-governing enclaves that bear the burden of their own prosperity.

No one knows yet whether Ms. Palin will actually run for president. But she did just get more interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 12, 2011, 10:02:51 PM
Never thought I would say it but that Sarah Palin bit seems to make sense.... at first read anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 13, 2011, 12:54:22 AM
QuoteThat's why I say, I like ever American I'm speaking with were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the tax payers looking to bailout. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up the economy– Helping the — Oh, it's got to be about job creation too. Shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americas. A And trade we've got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive scary thing. But 1 in 5 jobs being created in the trade sector today. We've got to look at that as more opportunity. ALL those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that.
;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mannix on September 13, 2011, 10:40:12 PM
I can't help staring at her, a thing of beauty at the right age. :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 14, 2011, 12:29:07 AM
Quote from: mannix on September 13, 2011, 10:40:12 PM
I can't help staring at her, a thing of beauty at the right age. :P
(http://www.wonkette.com/assets/resources/2006/12/Miss%20Wasilla%201984.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 14, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
Just how much more do we need to know about this pair :o
Un fecking believable;
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2011/sep/13/michelle-obama-all-just-flag/#.TnAMFa5aAgM.facebook
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on September 14, 2011, 09:22:12 PM
Reminds me of the Bill Hicks sketch.

My father died for this flag.

Oh really?  I just bought mine at Walmart?
And you know what?  It was made in Korea!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 15, 2011, 02:37:54 AM
QuoteQuote from: Tyrones own on September 02, 2011, 09:52:44 AM

    Can't believe none of ye picked up on this... actually I can  :-X
    Way to go Barrack  :o

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/white-house-backed-solar-solyndra-company-collapses/story?id=14420755


TO, absolutely right, Barrack Obama just personally guaranteed (certainly not the US department of Energy) a loan for a tech company in the US that employed 1100 people that before the investment was made had an expected market cap of $2BN US.  (http://gigaom.com/cleantech/solyndras-estimated-market-cap-up-to-2b-report/)
Hmm...Really? Fact is, it was Cronyism plain and simple on the backs of the tax payer >:(
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/14/solyndra-bankruptcy-insider-warning_n_963275.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 15, 2011, 03:11:13 AM
yep really. One staffer did predict correctly, in fact there were a wealth of folks advising against the Solyndra investment however, many saw it as a particularly good investment as did the markets (see the quote I originally posted for details). Fitch's B+ rating is surprisingly quite high for an alternative energy company, though for the record that's the same Fitch's that was rating the same sub prime Mortgages that collapsed Lehman brothers as AAA so wouldn't have too much faith in their system.

Are you suggesting that the US government should not be funding non oil energy sources?

Maybe leaving the future of the world's energy to the Chinese is a good plan for the US. Should definitely keep government spending lower (i know you like that) for the considerable future. If there's no money to spend and the Chinese won't lend any as they own all the global power sources so you can't repay.

THe US is losing its place at the top table of world economies due to its lack of spending in research and development. 3 times more money was spent in the US on Cosmetic surgery that was spent on R&D. In fact more money was spent on crisps (potato chips) than was spent on R&D. Not great signs for the economy or the future success of US pioneering progress.

Do you know how much money the US stood to gain if that investment paid off, and Solyndra had been successful? This is not supposed to be a pension grade investment paying back the US government a 4% annual return.

How would you have spent the money?

By the way, very impressed by you citing the Center for Public Integrity (however indirectly via the HP), I look forward to many more posts from there. Facts are a great place to start any of these discussions.

Also TO I think that you are absolutely right to have a go on this one, and there are a lot of conflicting reports on predictions of the performance of Solyndra and it indeed was money down the drain in hindsight. My own opinion is that given the aim of the (far too small) investment pool that was cut out of the budget to be spent on this, that Solyndra was a fair choice. I do however think that a DARPA style approach would have been an improvement on the fund method, and a Manhattan project style approach would even now be a welcome step to the US plotting a route to not only energy independence, but also becoming a net exporter of energy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 15, 2011, 12:14:01 PM
US census report on income

• Real median household income was $49,445 in 2010, a 2.3 percent
decline from 2009 (Figure 1 and Table 1).

• Since 2007, the year before the most recent recession, real median household income has declined 6.4 percent and is 7.1 percent below the median household
income peak that occurred in 1999 (Figure 1 and Tables A-1 and A-2).

• The official poverty rate in 2010 was 15.1 percent—up from 14.3 percent in 2009. This was the third consecutive annual increase in the poverty rate. Since 2007, the poverty rate has increased by 2.6 percentage points, from 12.5 percent to 15.1 percent (Table 4 and Figure 4).

• In 2010, 46.2 million people were in poverty, up from 43.6 million in 2009—the fourth consecutive annual increase in the number of people in poverty (Table 4 and Figure 4).

(Definitions of income are in appendix A page 31. Definition of poverty is in appendix B page 61).

http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 15, 2011, 12:47:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 14, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
Just how much more do we need to know about this pair :o
Un fecking believable;
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2011/sep/13/michelle-obama-all-just-flag/#.TnAMFa5aAgM.facebook

Never let the facts get away of the propaganda machine . . .

QuoteMrs. Obama leans to her husband and appears to say, "all this just for a flag." She then purses her lips and shakes her head slightly as Mr. Obama nods.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2011, 01:54:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 15, 2011, 12:47:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 14, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
Just how much more do we need to know about this pair :o
Un fecking believable;
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2011/sep/13/michelle-obama-all-just-flag/#.TnAMFa5aAgM.facebook

Never let the facts get away of the propaganda machine . . .

QuoteMrs. Obama leans to her husband and appears to say, "all this just for a flag." She then purses her lips and shakes her head slightly as Mr. Obama nods.

I watched it out of morbid curiosity. The right wing fake outrage machine must have some serious lip reading skills to decipher such a treasonous utterance from that piece of film! :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 15, 2011, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2011, 01:54:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 15, 2011, 12:47:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 14, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
Just how much more do we need to know about this pair :o
Un fecking believable;
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2011/sep/13/michelle-obama-all-just-flag/#.TnAMFa5aAgM.facebook

Never let the facts get away of the propaganda machine . . .

QuoteMrs. Obama leans to her husband and appears to say, "all this just for a flag." She then purses her lips and shakes her head slightly as Mr. Obama nods.

I watched it out of morbid curiosity. The right wing fake outrage machine must have some serious lip reading skills to decipher such a treasonous utterance from that piece of film! :D
Ok that said, what does it look like she uttered then in your opinion.......?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2011, 06:11:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 15, 2011, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2011, 01:54:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 15, 2011, 12:47:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 14, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
Just how much more do we need to know about this pair :o
Un fecking believable;
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2011/sep/13/michelle-obama-all-just-flag/#.TnAMFa5aAgM.facebook

Never let the facts get away of the propaganda machine . . .

QuoteMrs. Obama leans to her husband and appears to say, "all this just for a flag." She then purses her lips and shakes her head slightly as Mr. Obama nods.

I watched it out of morbid curiosity. The right wing fake outrage machine must have some serious lip reading skills to decipher such a treasonous utterance from that piece of film! :D
Ok that said, what does it look like she uttered then in your opinion.......?

I have no idea whatsoever TO nor, more importantly, do I care whatsoever what Michele Obama or any other woman whispers privately to her husband.

To me, this type of "issue" is on a level with the birther/"Obama is a muslim" extreme fringe paranoia.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on September 15, 2011, 06:14:52 PM
Typical far-right bullshit: attempting to put words into people's mouths (literally), just so that they can have an unhinged rant about them. Pathetic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 15, 2011, 07:17:33 PM
Sarah Palin sex claims: Tea Party firebrand had fling with Glen Rice and took drugs
Thursday, 15 September 2011


Sarah Palin, darling of the Tea Party, had a fling with a basketball star just before she got married and took cocaine while out snowmobiling, according to a US author.

The claims are contained in a highly critical book by acclaimed author Joe McGinniss which is due to be published next week.

The former Alaska Governor has not ruled out a bid for the Presidency next year, but the new allegations, based on 200 interviews with present and former staff, could be devastating for her political future.

The allegations originally published in the National Enquirer quoting publishing sources close to the book, throw into chaos her carefully constructed image of a down-to-earth hockey mom.

Mr McGinnis,( 67) a well established non fiction author, wrote the best selling account of Richard Nixon's 1968 Presidential run.

He spent four months last year in a cabin beside the Palin residence on the shores of Lake Lucille in Alaska.

He also reportedly claims that she took marijuana while a student and had an affair with her husband Todd's business partner in his book "The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin."

Mrs Palin's life has been under the microscope for three years, but the claims will be the first such lurid allegations by a serious author, and will be seized on by her enemies. She has not responded publicly so far.

Mrs Palin angrily accused him of planning to spy on her family.

In the book he claims Mrs Palin had a one-night stand with basketball player Glen Rice, who went on to play for the Miami Heat, less than a year before marrying her husband Todd.

Ms Palin's alleged fling with the 6ft 8 inch black basketball star is at odds with the deeply conservative persona she had cultivated appealing greatly to the strongly traditional Tea Party.

The book is published by Crown Publishing of the Random House stable and the publisher is standing by the claims.

"It is based on extensive reporting by Joe McGinniss in Alaska and on interviews with 200 people who have known Sarah Palin very well at different stages in her life and career," David Drake of Crown told The Times newspaper.

Source Irish Independent


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 15, 2011, 08:23:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 15, 2011, 07:17:33 PM
Sarah Palin sex claims: Tea Party firebrand had fling with Glen Rice and took drugs
Thursday, 15 September 2011


Sarah Palin, darling of the Tea Party, had a fling with a basketball star just before she got married and took cocaine while out snowmobiling, according to a US author.

The claims are contained in a highly critical book by acclaimed author Joe McGinniss which is due to be published next week.

The former Alaska Governor has not ruled out a bid for the Presidency next year, but the new allegations, based on 200 interviews with present and former staff, could be devastating for her political future.

The allegations originally published in the National Enquirer quoting publishing sources close to the book, throw into chaos her carefully constructed image of a down-to-earth hockey mom.

Mr McGinnis,( 67) a well established non fiction author, wrote the best selling account of Richard Nixon's 1968 Presidential run.

He spent four months last year in a cabin beside the Palin residence on the shores of Lake Lucille in Alaska.

He also reportedly claims that she took marijuana while a student and had an affair with her husband Todd's business partner in his book "The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin."

Mrs Palin's life has been under the microscope for three years, but the claims will be the first such lurid allegations by a serious author, and will be seized on by her enemies. She has not responded publicly so far.

Mrs Palin angrily accused him of planning to spy on her family.

In the book he claims Mrs Palin had a one-night stand with basketball player Glen Rice, who went on to play for the Miami Heat, less than a year before marrying her husband Todd.

Ms Palin's alleged fling with the 6ft 8 inch black basketball star is at odds with the deeply conservative persona she had cultivated appealing greatly to the strongly traditional Tea Party.

The book is published by Crown Publishing of the Random House stable and the publisher is standing by the claims.

"It is based on extensive reporting by Joe McGinniss in Alaska and on interviews with 200 people who have known Sarah Palin very well at different stages in her life and career," David Drake of Crown told The Times newspaper.

Source Irish Independent

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 15, 2011, 08:26:10 PM
so twice in one week! The NY Times (my bible as per TO) has slated the author of this book, and in some style.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/15/books/joe-mcginnisss-the-rogue-on-sarah-palin-review.html


On May 22, 2010, Joe McGinniss moved into a strategically well-situated house in Wasilla, Alaska. It was next door to the home of former Gov. Sarah Palin and her family, but that understates the highly exploitable proximity of the two places. They were very close together. The Palins could probably hear tweets from the newly hatched birds that Mr. McGinniss excitedly uses as filler for "The Rogue," his book about his summer-long experiment in homesteading. "The grebe chicks have hatched!" he needlessly exclaims.

Nancy Doherty
Joe McGinniss
THE ROGUE
Searching for the Real Sarah Palin
By Joe McGinniss
Illustrated, 321 pages. Crown Publishers. $25.
Related


Jake Guevara/The New York Times
Tweets emanated from the Palin place too. But they were the kind that Mr. McGinniss could have monitored from home in Massachusetts.

Mr. McGinnis, who has been writing best sellers since "The Selling of the President" in 1969, starts this book by affecting a gee-whiz attitude about his amazing new digs. ("Forty years in the business and I've never had a piece of luck like this.") But he doesn't get far with that attitude. Ten pages into "The Rogue" he has already blown his cover, printing a map to the Palins' isolated house. He describes having gone to the Palin door with a signed copy of his book about Alaska, "Going to Extremes," and exploiting this encounter to engage the family's older son, Track, in conversation. But had Mr. McGinniss been a good neighbor, he would have delivered that book without showing up unannounced.

Mr. McGinniss explains that he was shocked, just shocked, at the angry response his presence in Wasilla provoked. But "The Rogue" makes the Palins' widely publicized anger understandable, even to readers who might have defended his right to set up shop in their neighborhood and soak up the local color. Although most of "The Rogue" is dated, petty and easily available to anyone with Internet access, Mr. McGinniss used his time in Alaska to chase caustic, unsubstantiated gossip about the Palins, often from unnamed sources like "one resident" and "a friend."

And these stories need not be consistent. "The Rogue" suggests that Todd Palin and the young Sarah Heath took drugs. It also says that she lacked boyfriends and was a racist. And it includes this: "A friend says, 'Sarah and her sisters had a fetish for black guys for a while.'  " Mr. McGinniss did in 2011 make a phone call to the former N.B.A. basketball player Glen Rice, who is black, and prompted him to acknowledge having fond memories of Sarah Heath. While Mr. Rice avoids specifics and uses the words "respectful" and "a sweetheart," Mr. McGinniss eggs him on with the kind of flagrantly leading question he seems to have habitually asked. In Mr. Rice's case: "So you never had the feeling she felt bad about having sex with a black guy?"

So much for the soft sell. Soon Mr. McGinniss is settling in to enjoy the fuss his mere presence has created. "Normally, for a news story to continue beyond the first 24-hour news cycle, something newsworthy must occur," he writes loftily, but "The Rogue" is filled with proof to the contrary. What was his hate mail like? He quotes it. What did Glenn Beck call him? That's here too. Who took umbrage at this venom and chose to help him? One man offered him a hideout, despite Mr. McGinniss's slight skepticism about his motives. "But you don't know me," Mr. McGinnis protested.

"Hell, I've even got an AK-47 you might like," the man volunteered.

Is it any wonder that such shenanigans found their way to "Doonesbury"? The "Rogue"-related controversy has escalated this week with the news that some newspapers have declined to run installments of the comic strip that incorporate excerpts from the book. But what exactly is stopping them? Is it the book's intrepid reporting, or its questionable tone? Mr. McGinniss's most quotable, inflammatory lines call Ms. Palin a clown, a nitwit, a rabid wolf and a lap dancer — and those aren't the parts that assail her as a wife and parent.

He even finds a species of Alaska yenta willing to remark on the condition of the Palins' toilet, and he too (many of these gossips are men) has a place in "The Rogue." A journalist as seasoned as Mr. McGinniss surely knows what these details will do to his credibility regarding the book's more serious claims.

"The Rogue" reopens many knotty arguments about Ms. Palin's public record, mostly the same ones that were hashed over when she became part of the 2008 presidential campaign. It cites the investigation that became known as Troopergate, the questions about her involvement with the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act (Mr. McGinniss covered this in a 2009 Portfolio article) and her possible commitment to such extreme theological ideas as dominionism, although here too "The Rogue" is too busy being nasty to be lucid. Mr. McGinniss suggests both that Ms. Palin is committed to stealth religious control of government, and that she is not sufficiently devout.

With the same imprecise aim he cites conspiracy theories that Ms. Palin may not be the mother of her youngest son, Trig, and questions the circumstances under which he was born. Mr. McGinniss puts forth a provocative case for doubting Ms. Palin's account of Trig's birth, which involved a round trip between Alaska and Texas while she was supposedly in labor. But then he comes to an indefensibly reckless conclusion: "It is perhaps the most blistering assessment of her character possible that many Wasillans who'd known Sarah from high school onward told me that even if she had not faked the entire story of her pregnancy and Trig's birth, it was something she was eminently capable of doing."

There is one area, and only one, in which "The Rogue" is dead-on. Mr. McGinniss knows how publicity works. He appreciates, not to say emulates, the way members of the Palin family cash in on celebrity and contradict themselves without penalty. He also denounces the press's willingness to let this happen. How was it possible, he asks, for Ms. Palin's daughter Bristol to assail Levi Johnston, the father of her son, as being "obsessed with the limelight," then turn up herself on "Dancing With the Stars"?

Speaking of Mr. Johnston, Mr. McGinniss interviews his resentful mother, who was under house arrest on a drug charge at the time. He leaves her house "wanting to find Levi and give him a good hard shake and tell him to forget his sputtering career for half a second and go home, because his mother needs him." Since absolutely nobody connected with "The Rogue" seems to lack ulterior motives, there is one here as well. Mr. Johnston's sputtering career has produced a memoir, "Deer in the Headlights." Next week it will compete for attention with "The Rogue," when both are officially published on the same day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on September 16, 2011, 02:42:42 PM
From The Daily Mash (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk)  :D


Coke-snorting jungle fever is the real America, says Palin
15-09-11

SARAH Palin last night claimed drug taking and having sex with tall, muscly black men was the dream of every real American.


The former Alaskan governor said that filling your nose with dream powder or riding a mighty basketball player was the 'golden tomorrow' of every middle-class 'hockey mom'.

Palin, a leader of the right-wing Teapot movement, added: "To all those who wake up in the morning, hoist the flag on their lawns and make waffles for their kids, I know how much you wish you were buzzing like a freak while screaming for more.

"You just want your kids to be safe, go to college and get a good job while you pay your mortgage and score some kick-ass blow before climbing on board a man who is so much more than that hard-working, pasty faced salesman you're so proud to be married to.

"But the real scandal is that the cronies in Washington keep all that sweet powder to themselves and use their corporate  contacts to get great seats at basketball games, so close they can almost reach out and touch those glistening black thighs that can go all night long.

"I want you to know that I will always stand with you and if we stick to our beliefs, cherish our values and keep faith in God we can all share in an orgasm that you would simply not believe."

Margaret Collins, a housewife from Ohio, said: "Sarah Palin is just an ordinary American girl who can communicate so passionately my burning need to get really well fucked every once in a while.

"And if I can do that while being so high I can actually see Jesus then, God willing, we can take our country back."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 05:39:23 PM
So Much hate... So little time! and her not even running  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 05:43:41 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 15, 2011, 08:26:10 PM
so twice in one week! The NY Times (my bible as per TO) has slated the author of this book, and in some style.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/15/books/joe-mcginnisss-the-rogue-on-sarah-palin-review.html


On May 22, 2010, Joe McGinniss moved into a strategically well-situated house in Wasilla, Alaska. It was next door to the home of former Gov. Sarah Palin and her family, but that understates the highly exploitable proximity of the two places. They were very close together. The Palins could probably hear tweets from the newly hatched birds that Mr. McGinniss excitedly uses as filler for "The Rogue," his book about his summer-long experiment in homesteading. "The grebe chicks have hatched!" he needlessly exclaims.

Nancy Doherty
Joe McGinniss
THE ROGUE
Searching for the Real Sarah Palin
By Joe McGinniss
Illustrated, 321 pages. Crown Publishers. $25.
Related


Jake Guevara/The New York Times
Tweets emanated from the Palin place too. But they were the kind that Mr. McGinniss could have monitored from home in Massachusetts.

Mr. McGinnis, who has been writing best sellers since "The Selling of the President" in 1969, starts this book by affecting a gee-whiz attitude about his amazing new digs. ("Forty years in the business and I've never had a piece of luck like this.") But he doesn't get far with that attitude. Ten pages into "The Rogue" he has already blown his cover, printing a map to the Palins' isolated house. He describes having gone to the Palin door with a signed copy of his book about Alaska, "Going to Extremes," and exploiting this encounter to engage the family's older son, Track, in conversation. But had Mr. McGinniss been a good neighbor, he would have delivered that book without showing up unannounced.

Mr. McGinniss explains that he was shocked, just shocked, at the angry response his presence in Wasilla provoked. But "The Rogue" makes the Palins' widely publicized anger understandable, even to readers who might have defended his right to set up shop in their neighborhood and soak up the local color. Although most of "The Rogue" is dated, petty and easily available to anyone with Internet access, Mr. McGinniss used his time in Alaska to chase caustic, unsubstantiated gossip about the Palins, often from unnamed sources like "one resident" and "a friend."

And these stories need not be consistent. "The Rogue" suggests that Todd Palin and the young Sarah Heath took drugs. It also says that she lacked boyfriends and was a racist. And it includes this: "A friend says, 'Sarah and her sisters had a fetish for black guys for a while.'  " Mr. McGinniss did in 2011 make a phone call to the former N.B.A. basketball player Glen Rice, who is black, and prompted him to acknowledge having fond memories of Sarah Heath. While Mr. Rice avoids specifics and uses the words "respectful" and "a sweetheart," Mr. McGinniss eggs him on with the kind of flagrantly leading question he seems to have habitually asked. In Mr. Rice's case: "So you never had the feeling she felt bad about having sex with a black guy?"

So much for the soft sell. Soon Mr. McGinniss is settling in to enjoy the fuss his mere presence has created. "Normally, for a news story to continue beyond the first 24-hour news cycle, something newsworthy must occur," he writes loftily, but "The Rogue" is filled with proof to the contrary. What was his hate mail like? He quotes it. What did Glenn Beck call him? That's here too. Who took umbrage at this venom and chose to help him? One man offered him a hideout, despite Mr. McGinniss's slight skepticism about his motives. "But you don't know me," Mr. McGinnis protested.

"Hell, I've even got an AK-47 you might like," the man volunteered.

Is it any wonder that such shenanigans found their way to "Doonesbury"? The "Rogue"-related controversy has escalated this week with the news that some newspapers have declined to run installments of the comic strip that incorporate excerpts from the book. But what exactly is stopping them? Is it the book's intrepid reporting, or its questionable tone? Mr. McGinniss's most quotable, inflammatory lines call Ms. Palin a clown, a nitwit, a rabid wolf and a lap dancer — and those aren't the parts that assail her as a wife and parent.

He even finds a species of Alaska yenta willing to remark on the condition of the Palins' toilet, and he too (many of these gossips are men) has a place in "The Rogue." A journalist as seasoned as Mr. McGinniss surely knows what these details will do to his credibility regarding the book's more serious claims.

"The Rogue" reopens many knotty arguments about Ms. Palin's public record, mostly the same ones that were hashed over when she became part of the 2008 presidential campaign. It cites the investigation that became known as Troopergate, the questions about her involvement with the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act (Mr. McGinniss covered this in a 2009 Portfolio article) and her possible commitment to such extreme theological ideas as dominionism, although here too "The Rogue" is too busy being nasty to be lucid. Mr. McGinniss suggests both that Ms. Palin is committed to stealth religious control of government, and that she is not sufficiently devout.

With the same imprecise aim he cites conspiracy theories that Ms. Palin may not be the mother of her youngest son, Trig, and questions the circumstances under which he was born. Mr. McGinniss puts forth a provocative case for doubting Ms. Palin's account of Trig's birth, which involved a round trip between Alaska and Texas while she was supposedly in labor. But then he comes to an indefensibly reckless conclusion: "It is perhaps the most blistering assessment of her character possible that many Wasillans who'd known Sarah from high school onward told me that even if she had not faked the entire story of her pregnancy and Trig's birth, it was something she was eminently capable of doing."

There is one area, and only one, in which "The Rogue" is dead-on. Mr. McGinniss knows how publicity works. He appreciates, not to say emulates, the way members of the Palin family cash in on celebrity and contradict themselves without penalty. He also denounces the press's willingness to let this happen. How was it possible, he asks, for Ms. Palin's daughter Bristol to assail Levi Johnston, the father of her son, as being "obsessed with the limelight," then turn up herself on "Dancing With the Stars"?

Speaking of Mr. Johnston, Mr. McGinniss interviews his resentful mother, who was under house arrest on a drug charge at the time. He leaves her house "wanting to find Levi and give him a good hard shake and tell him to forget his sputtering career for half a second and go home, because his mother needs him." Since absolutely nobody connected with "The Rogue" seems to lack ulterior motives, there is one here as well. Mr. Johnston's sputtering career has produced a memoir, "Deer in the Headlights." Next week it will compete for attention with "The Rogue," when both are officially published on the same day.
The writing is on the wall as to where this ship is headed, not even the NY Times can hold out any longer!
The rest of ye will bring up the rear shortly... I'm confident :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2011, 06:11:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 15, 2011, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2011, 01:54:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 15, 2011, 12:47:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 14, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
Just how much more do we need to know about this pair :o
Un fecking believable;
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2011/sep/13/michelle-obama-all-just-flag/#.TnAMFa5aAgM.facebook

Never let the facts get away of the propaganda machine . . .

QuoteMrs. Obama leans to her husband and appears to say, "all this just for a flag." She then purses her lips and shakes her head slightly as Mr. Obama nods.

I watched it out of morbid curiosity. The right wing fake outrage machine must have some serious lip reading skills to decipher such a treasonous utterance from that piece of film! :D
Ok that said, what does it look like she uttered then in your opinion.......?

I have no idea whatsoever TO nor, more importantly, do I care whatsoever what Michele Obama or any other woman whispers privately to her husband.

To me, this type of "issue" is on a level with the birther/"Obama is a muslim" extreme fringe paranoia.
Or course not, I'd expect nothing less.
It's simply too bad that she couldn't keep her disdain for this Country
let alone the disrespect to those there to memorialize those who lost their
lives on 911 to herself...what is it about a pig and a grunt ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2011, 06:17:01 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2011, 06:11:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 15, 2011, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2011, 01:54:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 15, 2011, 12:47:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 14, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
Just how much more do we need to know about this pair :o
Un fecking believable;
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2011/sep/13/michelle-obama-all-just-flag/#.TnAMFa5aAgM.facebook

Never let the facts get away of the propaganda machine . . .

QuoteMrs. Obama leans to her husband and appears to say, "all this just for a flag." She then purses her lips and shakes her head slightly as Mr. Obama nods.

I watched it out of morbid curiosity. The right wing fake outrage machine must have some serious lip reading skills to decipher such a treasonous utterance from that piece of film! :D
Ok that said, what does it look like she uttered then in your opinion.......?

I have no idea whatsoever TO nor, more importantly, do I care whatsoever what Michele Obama or any other woman whispers privately to her husband.

To me, this type of "issue" is on a level with the birther/"Obama is a muslim" extreme fringe paranoia.
Or course not, I'd expect nothing less.
It's simply too bad that she couldn't keep her disdain for this Country
let alone the disrespect to those there to memorialize those who lost their
lives on 911 to herself...what is it about a pig and a grunt ::)

Pigs and grunts says the person who never fails to interpret every single action or word (or mime) of any Democrat or liberal (or fill in your non-US-right winger of choice) in the very worst possible and most paranoid, bitter and twisted way! :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
Difference being of course and intentionally missed,
I don't hate this Country!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2011, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
Difference being of course and intentionally missed,
I don't hate this Country!

And my implication being missed (I won't impugn your motives) is that such  hatred is in the eyes of the paranoid, bitter alleger.

Face it TO... you're making an eejit of yourself ranting about lip movements.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 16, 2011, 06:54:16 PM
So Obama decided to become President because he hates the United States??

I think I've heard it all now!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 07:00:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 16, 2011, 06:54:16 PM
So Obama decided to become President because he hates the United States??

I think I've heard it all now!!
No dim wit...Michelle is not the President of the United States!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 07:03:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2011, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
Difference being of course and intentionally missed,
I don't hate this Country!

And my implication being missed (I won't impugn your motives) is that such  hatred is in the eyes of the paranoid, bitter alleger.

Face it TO... you're making an eejit of yourself ranting about lip movements.
Heading out to the golf course here...I'll get back to you later.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on September 16, 2011, 07:27:18 PM
Be careful, TO. You wouldn't want your balls hooking to the left.  And no gimmes on the green.  You don't want to be the recipient of an unfair handout.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 16, 2011, 09:07:10 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on September 16, 2011, 02:42:42 PM
From The Daily Mash (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk)  :D


Coke-snorting jungle fever is the real America, says Palin
15-09-11

SARAH Palin last night claimed drug taking and having sex with tall, muscly black men was the dream of every real American.


The former Alaskan governor said that filling your nose with dream powder or riding a mighty basketball player was the 'golden tomorrow' of every middle-class 'hockey mom'.

Palin, a leader of the right-wing Teapot movement, added: "To all those who wake up in the morning, hoist the flag on their lawns and make waffles for their kids, I know how much you wish you were buzzing like a freak while screaming for more.

"You just want your kids to be safe, go to college and get a good job while you pay your mortgage and score some kick-ass blow before climbing on board a man who is so much more than that hard-working, pasty faced salesman you're so proud to be married to.

"But the real scandal is that the cronies in Washington keep all that sweet powder to themselves and use their corporate  contacts to get great seats at basketball games, so close they can almost reach out and touch those glistening black thighs that can go all night long.

"I want you to know that I will always stand with you and if we stick to our beliefs, cherish our values and keep faith in God we can all share in an orgasm that you would simply not believe."

Margaret Collins, a housewife from Ohio, said: "Sarah Palin is just an ordinary American girl who can communicate so passionately my burning need to get really well fucked every once in a while.

"And if I can do that while being so high I can actually see Jesus then, God willing, we can take our country back."

I wonder where she stands on Irishmen and whiskey?
Joe McGinniss wrote a pretty decent book about a Serie B Italian soccer team in the 1990's, Castel de Sangro. Good read.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2011, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 07:03:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2011, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
Difference being of course and intentionally missed,
I don't hate this Country!

And my implication being missed (I won't impugn your motives) is that such  hatred is in the eyes of the paranoid, bitter alleger.

Face it TO... you're making an eejit of yourself ranting about lip movements.
Heading out to the golf course here...I'll get back to you later.

TO, you don't have to explain to me what you do in your real life and why that might delay a discussion here (assuming that's why you said that). I've a very young child and all kinds of other pressing commitments... I might be away from the board for a week at any time and have been on an number of occasions recently. I'm certainly not going to justify my absence to anyone here!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 17, 2011, 12:01:43 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 07:00:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 16, 2011, 06:54:16 PM
So Obama decided to become President because he hates the United States??

I think I've heard it all now!!
No dim wit...Michelle is not the President of the United States!
Thankfully neither is Mr Palin. He hates America so much that he wants his state to secede, you know. A bit like that fella down in Texas, what's his name? Rhymes with Gerry...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 17, 2011, 04:26:33 PM
Which is the odd one out?

Almonds
Michele Bachmann
Cashews
Toothpaste


Answer : Toothpaste

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 18, 2011, 01:49:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2011, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 07:03:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2011, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
Difference being of course and intentionally missed,
I don't hate this Country!

And my implication being missed (I won't impugn your motives) is that such  hatred is in the eyes of the paranoid, bitter alleger.

Face it TO... you're making an eejit of yourself ranting about lip movements.
Heading out to the golf course here...I'll get back to you later.

TO, you don't have to explain to me what you do in your real life and why that might delay a discussion here (assuming that's why you said that). I've a very young child and all kinds of other pressing commitments... I might be away from the board for a week at any time and have been on an number of occasions recently. I'm certainly not going to justify my absence to anyone here!
Wow...a tad touchy aren't we, running out of reasons in continuing to defend this inept clown in the white house perhaps?
I don't have the strength in depth of a trolling relay team backing me up
you see, and wouldn't want to be thought of as not having an answer to the
blinkered madness around here ;)
As a matter of fact, in going back over this thread it would seem I've been the one with all the answers which clearly seems to be boiling some of ye 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 18, 2011, 05:00:39 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2011, 01:49:54 AM
As a matter of fact, in going back over this thread it would seem I've been the one with all the answers which clearly seems to be boiling some of ye 8)

Aye, mostly answers to questions in your own head though....

Good luck with that Rick Perry one, he's awesome.  Michelle Batman is equally inspiring( along with her "not gay" husband), we're at the stage where Ms Palin's seemingly incongruous sensible utterances during the week are leaving her look like the class of the field.

I will warn you TO, if she continues where she's heading the right wingers may accuse her of "flip flopping" because in US politics, apparently it is a bad idea to change your mind after listening to a bit of sense...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 01:00:57 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 18, 2011, 05:00:39 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2011, 01:49:54 AM
As a matter of fact, in going back over this thread it would seem I've been the one with all the answers which clearly seems to be boiling some of ye 8)

Aye, mostly answers to questions in your own head though....

Good luck with that Rick Perry one, he's awesome.  Michelle Batman is equally inspiring( along with her "not gay" husband), we're at the stage where Ms Palin's seemingly incongruous sensible utterances during the week are leaving her look like the class of the field.

I will warn you TO, if she continues where she's heading the right wingers may accuse her of "flip flopping" because in US politics, apparently it is a bad idea to change your mind after listening to a bit of sense...
Bla Bla Bla ,Hate, hate, hate...... In fairness it's about all you have to hang on to  ::)
You might as well face it sooner rather than later, he's a one termer plain and simple  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 01:13:56 AM
(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/M8XJOSrN.S1ePShwUooQKQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00NjQ7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/208/2011/09/22/001-125682969_175017.jpg)
*Shakes head*
The arrogance and complete idiocy of this fraud knows no limits...absolutely oblivious to anyone but himself , clown ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2011, 01:54:52 AM
Which one is you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2011, 02:25:34 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2011, 01:49:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2011, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 07:03:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2011, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 16, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
Difference being of course and intentionally missed,
I don't hate this Country!

And my implication being missed (I won't impugn your motives) is that such  hatred is in the eyes of the paranoid, bitter alleger.

Face it TO... you're making an eejit of yourself ranting about lip movements.
Heading out to the golf course here...I'll get back to you later.

TO, you don't have to explain to me what you do in your real life and why that might delay a discussion here (assuming that's why you said that). I've a very young child and all kinds of other pressing commitments... I might be away from the board for a week at any time and have been on an number of occasions recently. I'm certainly not going to justify my absence to anyone here!
Wow...a tad touchy aren't we, running out of reasons in continuing to defend this inept clown in the white house perhaps?
I don't have the strength in depth of a trolling relay team backing me up
you see, and wouldn't want to be thought of as not having an answer to the
blinkered madness around here ;)
As a matter of fact, in going back over this thread it would seem I've been the one with all the answers which clearly seems to be boiling some of ye 8)

What the f**k is your problem?

All I said was you don't need to explain why you'll be a while responding. That was it. There is clearly zero chance of even a single civil exchange with you.

And, BTW, I haven't defended Obama, job-wise, here in months. What I have done is call out some of your more ridiculous postings such as the lip reading farce the other day or the nonsense below. There is a difference between pointing out idiotic attacks like that and defending his job performance, which has been weak.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2011, 02:49:52 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 01:13:56 AM
(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/M8XJOSrN.S1ePShwUooQKQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00NjQ7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/208/2011/09/22/001-125682969_175017.jpg)
*Shakes head*
The arrogance and complete idiocy of this fraud knows no limits...absolutely oblivious to anyone but himself , clown ::)

Another stunning piece of fake outrage. Or maybe your paranoia and derangement are really that serious?

It couldn't possibly be that they were standing there for a minute posing, and Obama just happened to briefly wave to someone before he thought the photo was being taking , could it? He seems fine a few seconds later (or maybe it was before)...

(http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/8f0a8f06-2217-41d3-8fd4-5296451fa83b-big.jpg)

But no, it has to be the "Tyrone's Own worst possible paranoid interpretation because the person is not a far right conservative" interpretation.

Mildly embarrassing for Obama, at worst. You should be embarrassed though, rushing in here to post this type of silly over-the-top nonsense, as usual.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2011, 02:54:39 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 18, 2011, 05:00:39 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 18, 2011, 01:49:54 AM
As a matter of fact, in going back over this thread it would seem I've been the one with all the answers which clearly seems to be boiling some of ye 8)

Aye, mostly answers to questions in your own head though....

Good luck with that Rick Perry one, he's awesome.  Michelle Batman is equally inspiring( along with her "not gay" husband), we're at the stage where Ms Palin's seemingly incongruous sensible utterances during the week are leaving her look like the class of the field.

I will warn you TO, if she continues where she's heading the right wingers may accuse her of "flip flopping" because in US politics, apparently it is a bad idea to change your mind after listening to a bit of sense...

Wouldn't mind but Huntsman actually seems like a fairly decent, sensible, candidate. Hasn't a prayer with the whackjobs voting in the Republican primaries though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on September 23, 2011, 03:17:16 AM
I am watching the Republican Presidential Debate in Florida and the candidates are extremely weak on their responses with the exceptions of Ron Paul and Herman Cain. As a Democratic voter, Paul/Cain would seem the best of the group, I would seriously consider the ticket of the those two. The other candidates just bring across an arrogance and fluff answers with no true substantial information. I have voted across party lines in the past for who I thought would represent me best in government and will continue to do so in the future BUT the Republican Party members continue to show anti-Democrat attitudes. Instead of working with democrats the republicans sure show that they hope everything the Dems do will fail. Why not work together? If the Dems fail guess what the whole country fails. It makes me sick that people who want to serve the country hope that one party will fail while using this as a platform for their party.

Perry and Romney sure look and sound like Baptist Preachers who are being used as puppets, my opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2011, 04:00:50 AM
I like some of Paul's libertarian ideas and I like the fact that he is principled and doesn't do what the likes of Romney does and mould his "opinions" to fit whatever the audience is at the time. You absolutely know what he stands for. But the idea that the US can function as a society without federal regulations is just idiotic. I also think Cain's flat tax thing is definitely worth exploring, although not necessarily at those rates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on September 23, 2011, 05:21:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2011, 04:00:50 AM
I like some of Paul's libertarian ideas and I like the fact that he is principled and doesn't do what the likes of Romney does and mould his "opinions" to fit whatever the audience is at the time. You absolutely know what he stands for. But the idea that the US can function as a society without federal regulations is just idiotic. I also think Cain's flat tax thing is definitely worth exploring, although not necessarily at those rates.

Paul/Cain don't buckle in like the other 7 candidates to the GOP crowd. The Federal Regulations that the GOP candidates say are holding this country back is asinine. The regulations that they want to get rid of are the ones to help protect the land/water/air quality because BIG BIZ can dump more pollutants into the ecosystem. The flat tax rate that Cain proposed would be very doable and help the economy recover. 9-9-9 are doable numbers. Right now the US Corp Tax Rate is around 25-35% vs Ireland at 12.5%. If the US used a 9% rate the 600 US companies based in Ireland and the 100,000 jobs that go with that would relocate back to the States.

Like I said before the GOP hopes that Obama fails which means the US fails. I would love to see national parties dissolved and individual candidates battle it out as the best person wins. The polarization of the parties is what is really holding back the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 23, 2011, 08:40:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2011, 04:00:50 AM
I like some of Paul's libertarian ideas and I like the fact that he is principled and doesn't do what the likes of Romney does and mould his "opinions" to fit whatever the audience is at the time. You absolutely know what he stands for. But the idea that the US can function as a society without federal regulations is just idiotic. I also think Cain's flat tax thing is definitely worth exploring, although not necessarily at those rates.

It's gas how Ron Paul wants no government - yet expects someone to keep the illegal immigrants out. Good luck with that if you don't have someone to issue citizenship or green cards
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 23, 2011, 01:50:33 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2011/sep/15/circus-elephants/

Already in a condition of satire, the opening of the Tea Party-hosted GOP debate on Monday night in Tampa presented the eight Republican presidential candidates as good-looking characters—"The Diplomat" "The Newcomer" "The Firebrand"—who would have to battle one another off the electoral island. Music, brassy and tense, and a baritone voice-over let you know that this reality show was part of the ongoing Apocalypse Lite that has infused our television programming and made the networks almost unwatchable. There was little even Jon Stewart on his show the next evening could do to make fun of what was often comedically predigested—except to say that the red, white and blue stage looked like the inside of Betsy Rossʼs, well, sewing room. Iʼm paraphrasing.

There is always something if not a lot to learn by watching a circus—one is both amazed by and sorry for the animals. The clowns are clearly just pretending. The self-pity one arrives with enlarges to become societal. In a certain way all the candidates on Monday struggled admirably.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on September 23, 2011, 04:58:42 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 23, 2011, 08:40:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2011, 04:00:50 AM
I like some of Paul's libertarian ideas and I like the fact that he is principled and doesn't do what the likes of Romney does and mould his "opinions" to fit whatever the audience is at the time. You absolutely know what he stands for. But the idea that the US can function as a society without federal regulations is just idiotic. I also think Cain's flat tax thing is definitely worth exploring, although not necessarily at those rates.

It's gas how Ron Paul wants no government - yet expects someone to keep the illegal immigrants out. Good luck with that if you don't have someone to issue citizenship or green cards

Aye, for every sensible thing he comes up with he matches it with something completely unworkable. Pity, because he seems to be about the only anti-war candidate in the whole election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
It's particularly ironic that none of ye seem to have any problem
finding the faults of a bunch of wannabees yet completely awol on the glaring faults and consistent failings of the man that actually holds the office  :-X
Pathetic actually!
Might I suggest that you grow to like some one of them because it's pretty clear to
most that your first choice is one and done!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 05:20:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2011, 02:49:52 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 01:13:56 AM
(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/M8XJOSrN.S1ePShwUooQKQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00NjQ7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/208/2011/09/22/001-125682969_175017.jpg)
*Shakes head*
The arrogance and complete idiocy of this fraud knows no limits...absolutely oblivious to anyone but himself , clown ::)

Another stunning piece of fake outrage. Or maybe your paranoia and derangement are really that serious?

It couldn't possibly be that they were standing there for a minute posing, and Obama just happened to briefly wave to someone before he thought the photo was being taking , could it? He seems fine a few seconds later (or maybe it was before)...

(http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/8f0a8f06-2217-41d3-8fd4-5296451fa83b-big.jpg)

But no, it has to be the "Tyrone's Own worst possible paranoid interpretation because the person is not a far right conservative" interpretation.

Mildly embarrassing for Obama, at worst. You should be embarrassed though, rushing in here to post this type of silly over-the-top nonsense, as usual.
Outrage...what outrage? I'm laughing at him ffs.
Ah sure maybe he was just getting in a little practice for the upcoming swearing in ceremony in '13, someone should let him know real soon that that won't be necessary  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 05:30:08 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on September 23, 2011, 03:17:16 AM
I am watching the Republican Presidential Debate in Florida and the candidates are extremely weak on their responses with the exceptions of Ron Paul and Herman Cain. As a Democratic voter, Paul/Cain would seem the best of the group, I would seriously consider the ticket of the those two. The other candidates just bring across an arrogance and fluff answers with no true substantial information. I have voted across party lines in the past for who I thought would represent me best in government and will continue to do so in the future BUT the Republican Party members continue to show anti-Democrat attitudes. Instead of working with democrats the republicans sure show that they hope everything the Dems do will fail. Why not work together? If the Dems fail guess what the whole country fails. It makes me sick that people who want to serve the country hope that one party will fail while using this as a platform for their party.

Perry and Romney sure look and sound like Baptist Preachers who are being used as puppets, my opinion.
That said...would I be correct in in saying that you belong to the small minority of voters that think this Country is headed in the right direction?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2011, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
It's particularly ironic that none of ye seem to have any problem
finding the faults of a bunch of wannabees yet completely awol on the glaring faults and consistent failings of the man that actually holds the office  :-X
Pathetic actually!

Like you during the Dubya fiasco?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 07:25:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2011, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
It's particularly ironic that none of ye seem to have any problem
finding the faults of a bunch of wannabees yet completely awol on the glaring faults and consistent failings of the man that actually holds the office  :-X
Pathetic actually!

Like you during the Dubya fiasco?
Really?...explain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on September 23, 2011, 07:33:27 PM
(http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00650/cartoon230911_650110a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2011, 08:01:59 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 07:25:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2011, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
It's particularly ironic that none of ye seem to have any problem
finding the faults of a bunch of wannabees yet completely awol on the glaring faults and consistent failings of the man that actually holds the office  :-X
Pathetic actually!

Like you during the Dubya fiasco?
Really?...explain.

Oops, sorry I though you were the one true defender of everything Dubya on this board for most of a decade while blaming everything on Clinton. My mistake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 08:30:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2011, 08:01:59 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 07:25:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2011, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 23, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
It's particularly ironic that none of ye seem to have any problem
finding the faults of a bunch of wannabees yet completely awol on the glaring faults and consistent failings of the man that actually holds the office  :-X
Pathetic actually!

Like you during the Dubya fiasco?
Really?...explain.

Oops, sorry I though you were the one true defender of everything Dubya on this board for most of a decade while blaming everything on Clinton. My mistake.
Apology accepted....one of days you'll get it right :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2011, 11:22:45 PM
The Republican debate
A missed opportunity (http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/09/republican-debate-0)
Sep 23rd 2011, 17:48 by R.M. | WASHINGTON, DC

EVER since Bill Clinton's "Sister Souljah" moment in the 1992 campaign, candidates have often tried to distinguish themselves from the fringes of their parties with moments of seemingly exceptional candour. The best politicians can use these moments to signal their moderation to centrist voters, while not really offending anyone of any importance. Mr Clinton perfected the move. And I think some of the Republican candidates missed an opening for such a moment last night.

A little over halfway through the debate, a gay soldier appeared before the candidates (via video from Iraq) to ask their opinion on the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. As you can hear in the video above, the question was booed by some classy folks in the audience. Responsibility for the answer was unfortunately handed over to Rick Santorum, who stumbled over himself before declaring that the policy should be reinstated. I expected as much from Mr Santorum. What surprised me was the silence that followed his answer.

As one of Andrew Sullivan's readers points out, it was a highly unusual moment.

"I'm still repulsed thinking about the question from the gay soldier last night, but one small observation—this is the only instance I can recall in which an active duty service member was not thanked for his service. Every time politicians interact with military personnel, they fall all over themselves thanking "the brave men and women of our armed forces, and their families.""

According to the latest poll I could find, from December 2010, nearly half of Republicans supported repealing DADT. An earlier poll, where the question was worded differently, showed even stronger support for allowing gays to serve openly, with 58% of Republicans in favour. Now perhaps it is foolish to expect one of the candidates to step out on a limb (a pretty sturdy limb it seems) and stand up for the repeal of DADT, but why did none of the candidates jump into this void and, at the very least, thank the soldier for his service? Would it have been that risky to say that no American soldier deserves to be booed by a crowd enjoying the freedoms he defends? It struck me as an opportunity for one of the candidates to distinguish himself. And it had the bonus of being the morally right thing to do. Alas, no one on stage proved nearly as courageous as the gay soldier they hung out to dry last night.

The Economist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 24, 2011, 02:28:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2011, 11:22:45 PM
The Republican debate
A missed opportunity (http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/09/republican-debate-0)
Sep 23rd 2011, 17:48 by R.M. | WASHINGTON, DC

EVER since Bill Clinton's "Sister Souljah" moment in the 1992 campaign, candidates have often tried to distinguish themselves from the fringes of their parties with moments of seemingly exceptional candour. The best politicians can use these moments to signal their moderation to centrist voters, while not really offending anyone of any importance. Mr Clinton perfected the move. And I think some of the Republican candidates missed an opening for such a moment last night.

A little over halfway through the debate, a gay soldier appeared before the candidates (via video from Iraq) to ask their opinion on the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. As you can hear in the video above, the question was booed by some classy folks in the audience. Responsibility for the answer was unfortunately handed over to Rick Santorum, who stumbled over himself before declaring that the policy should be reinstated. I expected as much from Mr Santorum. What surprised me was the silence that followed his answer.

As one of Andrew Sullivan's readers points out, it was a highly unusual moment.

"I'm still repulsed thinking about the question from the gay soldier last night, but one small observation—this is the only instance I can recall in which an active duty service member was not thanked for his service. Every time politicians interact with military personnel, they fall all over themselves thanking "the brave men and women of our armed forces, and their families.""

According to the latest poll I could find, from December 2010, nearly half of Republicans supported repealing DADT. An earlier poll, where the question was worded differently, showed even stronger support for allowing gays to serve openly, with 58% of Republicans in favour. Now perhaps it is foolish to expect one of the candidates to step out on a limb (a pretty sturdy limb it seems) and stand up for the repeal of DADT, but why did none of the candidates jump into this void and, at the very least, thank the soldier for his service? Would it have been that risky to say that no American soldier deserves to be booed by a crowd enjoying the freedoms he defends? It struck me as an opportunity for one of the candidates to distinguish himself. And it had the bonus of being the morally right thing to do. Alas, no one on stage proved nearly as courageous as the gay soldier they hung out to dry last night.

The Economist
Ah FFS dry your crocodile tears why don't ye  :'(...  gay or no gay, you Anti-American haters
would be dancing in the streets if the US Military were gone in the morning...who do you think
you're fooling with your sudden opportunistic, straw man concern  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 24, 2011, 05:31:53 AM
i assumed based on tax policy that most republicans must kind of expect the US military to be gone in the morning because they certainly don't seem to want to collect any taxes to pay for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2011, 02:56:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2011, 11:22:45 PM
The Republican debate
A missed opportunity (http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/09/republican-debate-0)
Sep 23rd 2011, 17:48 by R.M. | WASHINGTON, DC

EVER since Bill Clinton's "Sister Souljah" moment in the 1992 campaign, candidates have often tried to distinguish themselves from the fringes of their parties with moments of seemingly exceptional candour. The best politicians can use these moments to signal their moderation to centrist voters, while not really offending anyone of any importance. Mr Clinton perfected the move. And I think some of the Republican candidates missed an opening for such a moment last night.

A little over halfway through the debate, a gay soldier appeared before the candidates (via video from Iraq) to ask their opinion on the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. As you can hear in the video above, the question was booed by some classy folks in the audience. Responsibility for the answer was unfortunately handed over to Rick Santorum, who stumbled over himself before declaring that the policy should be reinstated. I expected as much from Mr Santorum. What surprised me was the silence that followed his answer.

As one of Andrew Sullivan's readers points out, it was a highly unusual moment.

"I'm still repulsed thinking about the question from the gay soldier last night, but one small observation—this is the only instance I can recall in which an active duty service member was not thanked for his service. Every time politicians interact with military personnel, they fall all over themselves thanking "the brave men and women of our armed forces, and their families.""

According to the latest poll I could find, from December 2010, nearly half of Republicans supported repealing DADT. An earlier poll, where the question was worded differently, showed even stronger support for allowing gays to serve openly, with 58% of Republicans in favour. Now perhaps it is foolish to expect one of the candidates to step out on a limb (a pretty sturdy limb it seems) and stand up for the repeal of DADT, but why did none of the candidates jump into this void and, at the very least, thank the soldier for his service? Would it have been that risky to say that no American soldier deserves to be booed by a crowd enjoying the freedoms he defends? It struck me as an opportunity for one of the candidates to distinguish himself. And it had the bonus of being the morally right thing to do. Alas, no one on stage proved nearly as courageous as the gay soldier they hung out to dry last night.

The Economist

Can't be seen to be going against the good christian real Americans by standing up for the gay soldier. The same people who cheer the Texas execution rate and allowing people without health insurance to die.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 24, 2011, 03:39:18 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 24, 2011, 05:31:53 AM
i assumed based on tax policy that most republicans must kind of expect the US military to be gone in the morning because they certainly don't seem to want to collect any taxes to pay for it.
Why don't you ask one... but you being a tax and spend democrat, when will enough ever be enough to keep pace with your outrageous, unsustainable spending ???

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 24, 2011, 03:46:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2011, 02:56:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2011, 11:22:45 PM
The Republican debate
A missed opportunity (http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/09/republican-debate-0)
Sep 23rd 2011, 17:48 by R.M. | WASHINGTON, DC

EVER since Bill Clinton's "Sister Souljah" moment in the 1992 campaign, candidates have often tried to distinguish themselves from the fringes of their parties with moments of seemingly exceptional candour. The best politicians can use these moments to signal their moderation to centrist voters, while not really offending anyone of any importance. Mr Clinton perfected the move. And I think some of the Republican candidates missed an opening for such a moment last night.

A little over halfway through the debate, a gay soldier appeared before the candidates (via video from Iraq) to ask their opinion on the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. As you can hear in the video above, the question was booed by some classy folks in the audience. Responsibility for the answer was unfortunately handed over to Rick Santorum, who stumbled over himself before declaring that the policy should be reinstated. I expected as much from Mr Santorum. What surprised me was the silence that followed his answer.

As one of Andrew Sullivan's readers points out, it was a highly unusual moment.

"I'm still repulsed thinking about the question from the gay soldier last night, but one small observation—this is the only instance I can recall in which an active duty service member was not thanked for his service. Every time politicians interact with military personnel, they fall all over themselves thanking "the brave men and women of our armed forces, and their families.""

According to the latest poll I could find, from December 2010, nearly half of Republicans supported repealing DADT. An earlier poll, where the question was worded differently, showed even stronger support for allowing gays to serve openly, with 58% of Republicans in favour. Now perhaps it is foolish to expect one of the candidates to step out on a limb (a pretty sturdy limb it seems) and stand up for the repeal of DADT, but why did none of the candidates jump into this void and, at the very least, thank the soldier for his service? Would it have been that risky to say that no American soldier deserves to be booed by a crowd enjoying the freedoms he defends? It struck me as an opportunity for one of the candidates to distinguish himself. And it had the bonus of being the morally right thing to do. Alas, no one on stage proved nearly as courageous as the gay soldier they hung out to dry last night.

The Economist

Can't be seen to be going against the good christian real Americans by standing up for the gay soldier. The same people who cheer the Texas execution rate and allowing people without health insurance to die.
More Croc tears... actually beginning to scrape the barrel now in desperation  :-[
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLFlr2WeEIxx-JrsTMeadYt2yrNqq9G5Daxnwrdd3yV2aIBQJ_pg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2011, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 24, 2011, 03:46:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2011, 02:56:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2011, 11:22:45 PM
The Republican debate
A missed opportunity (http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/09/republican-debate-0)
Sep 23rd 2011, 17:48 by R.M. | WASHINGTON, DC

EVER since Bill Clinton's "Sister Souljah" moment in the 1992 campaign, candidates have often tried to distinguish themselves from the fringes of their parties with moments of seemingly exceptional candour. The best politicians can use these moments to signal their moderation to centrist voters, while not really offending anyone of any importance. Mr Clinton perfected the move. And I think some of the Republican candidates missed an opening for such a moment last night.

A little over halfway through the debate, a gay soldier appeared before the candidates (via video from Iraq) to ask their opinion on the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. As you can hear in the video above, the question was booed by some classy folks in the audience. Responsibility for the answer was unfortunately handed over to Rick Santorum, who stumbled over himself before declaring that the policy should be reinstated. I expected as much from Mr Santorum. What surprised me was the silence that followed his answer.

As one of Andrew Sullivan's readers points out, it was a highly unusual moment.

"I'm still repulsed thinking about the question from the gay soldier last night, but one small observation—this is the only instance I can recall in which an active duty service member was not thanked for his service. Every time politicians interact with military personnel, they fall all over themselves thanking "the brave men and women of our armed forces, and their families.""

According to the latest poll I could find, from December 2010, nearly half of Republicans supported repealing DADT. An earlier poll, where the question was worded differently, showed even stronger support for allowing gays to serve openly, with 58% of Republicans in favour. Now perhaps it is foolish to expect one of the candidates to step out on a limb (a pretty sturdy limb it seems) and stand up for the repeal of DADT, but why did none of the candidates jump into this void and, at the very least, thank the soldier for his service? Would it have been that risky to say that no American soldier deserves to be booed by a crowd enjoying the freedoms he defends? It struck me as an opportunity for one of the candidates to distinguish himself. And it had the bonus of being the morally right thing to do. Alas, no one on stage proved nearly as courageous as the gay soldier they hung out to dry last night.

The Economist

Can't be seen to be going against the good christian real Americans by standing up for the gay soldier. The same people who cheer the Texas execution rate and allowing people without health insurance to die.
More Croc tears... actually beginning to scrape the barrel now in desperation  :-[
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLFlr2WeEIxx-JrsTMeadYt2yrNqq9G5Daxnwrdd3yV2aIBQJ_pg)

You might have a point if I ever condemned supporting military members, gay rights, abolishing capital punishment or providing emergency healthcare for uninsured. Unfortunately I have not, so your point, such as it is, is utter shit and has nothing to do with anything I've ever expressed here.

It is interesting, and true to form though, despite all your protestations about other people doing it with respect to Obama, that you've nothing to say on those incidents at the Republican primaries other than shooting the messengers!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2011, 05:37:07 PM
"If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought here by no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart," Perry said at Thursday's Fox News/Google debate in Orlando.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/perry-struggles-to-defend-his-front-runner-status-in-gop-race/#ixzz1Yt88PvIJ

Well said Rick Perry! Unfortunately for him, along with his correct stance on the HPV vaccine (whatever his motivation was), its not too popular a view with the average GOP primary voter!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 25, 2011, 06:38:18 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 24, 2011, 02:28:28 AM
you Anti-American haters

that would be people who hate "Anti-Americans" then would it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 25, 2011, 06:50:15 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 25, 2011, 06:38:18 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 24, 2011, 02:28:28 AM
you Anti-American haters

that would be people who hate "Anti-Americans" then would it?
Yes Chicken Little...I missed a comma  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 25, 2011, 04:09:37 PM
I'd say on this particular subject you're missing a lot more than that.

I don't see how either party in their current incarnations is offering anything new to the majority of people in the United States that will bring the nation forward. The answer is neither little government and no taxes or big government and big taxes, it is smart government and smart taxes. From what I can make out the closest to that position at the moment is Obama's watered down tax bill.

I have yet to see any coherent or viable tax or economic position from any Republican candidate. And to compound the issue, even if someone comes up with a viable plan, there aren't enough sensible people in a position to pass it.

So rather than try to pick holes in everything Obama does, how about you stop insulting everyone with a different opinion to yours, and engage your brain and engage in the discussion that is on the discussion board.

I miss the old TO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:03:55 PM
QuoteIt is interesting, and true to form though, despite all your protestations about other people doing it with respect to Obama, that you've nothing to say on those incidents at the Republican primaries other than shooting the messengers!
But sure what they say or do at this present time has no bearing what so ever on
the mess we're in...and to that end, it is interesting that you still find reason to try to justify the epic failure that is actually in control of the mess we're in!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
Quote"If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought here by no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart," Perry said at Thursday's Fox News/Google debate in Orlando.
Let me put it this way;
"If at 20 you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart
If at 40 you still a liberal, you don't have a brain"
It's the thinking with the bleeding heart that has us in
the hole we're in...time to start using the head and being
realistic.
Enough of this heart horse shite, people are sick of it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 28, 2011, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 25, 2011, 04:09:37 PM
I miss the old TO.

Which TO is that? I don't recall him ever articulating a position on any subject. He has been very good at restricting his output to Obama/left wing bashing. He loves to bash Obama but won't suggest a Republican candidate who he would support. He loves to whine about what he sees as a left wing media but won't let us know what he reads as an alternative. The vast majority of his output could be replaced by "Obama is useless, You're all anti-american, You just read a bunch of biased media sources, You're all drinking the kool-aid" without there being much loss in content.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 28, 2011, 05:37:20 PM
Quote from: dec on September 28, 2011, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 25, 2011, 04:09:37 PM
I miss the old TO.

Which TO is that? I don't recall him ever articulating a position on any subject. He has been very good at restricting his output to Obama/left wing bashing. He loves to bash Obama but won't suggest a Republican candidate who he would support. He loves to whine about what he sees as a left wing media but won't let us know what he reads as an alternative. The vast majority of his output could be replaced by "Obama is useless, You're all anti-american, You just read a bunch of biased media sources, You're all drinking the kool-aid" without there being much loss in content.

And as if to prove my point, while I was composing my previous comment he posts another content free piece of name calling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 06:52:10 PM
Quote from: dec on September 28, 2011, 05:37:20 PM
Quote from: dec on September 28, 2011, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 25, 2011, 04:09:37 PM
I miss the old TO.

Which TO is that? I don't recall him ever articulating a position on any subject. He has been very good at restricting his output to Obama/left wing bashing. He loves to bash Obama but won't suggest a Republican candidate who he would support. He loves to whine about what he sees as a left wing media but won't let us know what he reads as an alternative. The vast majority of his output could be replaced by "Obama is useless, You're all anti-american, You just read a bunch of biased media sources, You're all drinking the kool-aid" without there being much loss in content.

And as if to prove my point, while I was composing my previous comment he posts another content free piece of name calling.
Actually most of the bit in bold is spot on  :P

Hey...don't take my word for it, look at his poll
numbers, look at his results, look at the corruption scandals,
look at the headlines this morning for instance that immigration reform is a top priority ::)
I'm sure that really warms the masses on the unemployment lines!

And as for who I'm supporting, a) contrary to popular belief, I'm not a
Republican and b) obviously the strongest candidate, one who'll be able
to with stand the onslaught from the media in their efforts to get the empty suit re-elected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2011, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:03:55 PM
QuoteIt is interesting, and true to form though, despite all your protestations about other people doing it with respect to Obama, that you've nothing to say on those incidents at the Republican primaries other than shooting the messengers!
But sure what they say or do at this present time has no bearing what so ever on
the mess we're in...and to that end, it is interesting that you still find reason to try to justify the epic failure that is actually in control of the mess we're in!

Yet you still can't either condemn or support those views! Can't even reveal that much??

As for myself, I stated last week, I have not defended Obama, job performance-wise, here in months. His leadership has been awful and unless he gets his act together quickly, people are not going to bother turning out for him next year, regardless of the appalling antics of the House. The only bright light, from my perspective, is that the extremism of the GOP base is killing one candidate after another (Rick Perry for f**ks sake!) and we may yet be left with a relative moderate like Romney (of course, we thought similar last time around with McCain until he decided to debase himself with Palin and attempts to appeal to the far right)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on September 28, 2011, 07:14:48 PM
TO, you have fathered a battalion of illegitimate ideas on here, but the following typifies your insensitivity and the insensitivity of the right as a whole: "Enough of this heart horse shite, people are sick of it!'

It is this very "heart shite" that separates the callous from the compassionate, the conservative from the caring, the I'm-All-Right-Jack-Screw-You from the Can-I-Give-You-A-Hand.  Where did that mindset get us in the Civil Rights movement, Irish or American?

It is precisely the reason I will never vote for a Republican.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2011, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
Quote"If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought here by no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart," Perry said at Thursday's Fox News/Google debate in Orlando.
Let me put it this way;
"If at 20 you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart
If at 40 you still a liberal, you don't have a brain"
It's the thinking with the bleeding heart that has us in
the hole we're in...time to start using the head and being
realistic.
Enough of this heart horse shite, people are sick of it!

You think Churchill would support just abandoning a generation of children because of circumstances beyond their control?

What do you think should be done with these kids?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2011, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:03:55 PM
QuoteIt is interesting, and true to form though, despite all your protestations about other people doing it with respect to Obama, that you've nothing to say on those incidents at the Republican primaries other than shooting the messengers!
But sure what they say or do at this present time has no bearing what so ever on
the mess we're in...and to that end, it is interesting that you still find reason to try to justify the epic failure that is actually in control of the mess we're in!

Yet you still can't either condemn or support those views! Can't even reveal that much??

As for myself, I stated last week, I have not defended Obama, job performance-wise, here in months. His leadership has been awful and unless he gets his act together quickly, people are not going to bother turning out for him next year, regardless of the appalling antics of the House. The only bright light, from my perspective, is that the extremism of the GOP base is killing one candidate after another (Rick Perry for f**ks sake!) and we may yet be left with a relative moderate like Romney (of course, we thought similar last time around with McCain until he decided to debase himself with Palin and attempts to appeal to the far right)
In months ::) exactly my point...he was out of his depth in the Senate let alone becoming President and your hardened dismissal to my opinion of him since 2007 won't be brushed under the carpet that easily!
But fair play to you...it is a start, he is quite simply not a leader, never was
and isn't suddenly going to become one with 4 more years!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 28, 2011, 07:45:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
Quote"If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought here by no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart," Perry said at Thursday's Fox News/Google debate in Orlando.
Let me put it this way;
"If at 20 you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart
If at 40 you still a liberal, you don't have a brain"
It's the thinking with the bleeding heart that has us in
the hole we're in...time to start using the head and being
realistic.
Enough of this heart horse shite, people are sick of it!

QuoteIf by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."
John F Kennedy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2011, 07:49:23 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2011, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:03:55 PM
QuoteIt is interesting, and true to form though, despite all your protestations about other people doing it with respect to Obama, that you've nothing to say on those incidents at the Republican primaries other than shooting the messengers!
But sure what they say or do at this present time has no bearing what so ever on
the mess we're in...and to that end, it is interesting that you still find reason to try to justify the epic failure that is actually in control of the mess we're in!

Yet you still can't either condemn or support those views! Can't even reveal that much??

As for myself, I stated last week, I have not defended Obama, job performance-wise, here in months. His leadership has been awful and unless he gets his act together quickly, people are not going to bother turning out for him next year, regardless of the appalling antics of the House. The only bright light, from my perspective, is that the extremism of the GOP base is killing one candidate after another (Rick Perry for f**ks sake!) and we may yet be left with a relative moderate like Romney (of course, we thought similar last time around with McCain until he decided to debase himself with Palin and attempts to appeal to the far right)
In months ::) exactly my point...he was out of his depth in the Senate let alone becoming President and your hardened dismissal to my opinion of him since 2007 won't be brushed under the carpet that easily!
But fair play to you...it is a start, he is quite simply not a leader, never was
and isn't suddenly going to become one with 4 more years!

I've dismissed your shrill over-the-top ridiculous personal attacks on him and will continue to do so.  But yes, credit where its due, as far as I remember you did raise the inexperience thing back during the campaign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on September 28, 2011, 08:54:57 PM
For TO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHeXm7t-aAY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHeXm7t-aAY)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 28, 2011, 08:54:57 PM
For TO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHeXm7t-aAY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHeXm7t-aAY)
Have some one show you where California is on a map  :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2011, 07:45:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
Quote"If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought here by no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart," Perry said at Thursday's Fox News/Google debate in Orlando.
Let me put it this way;
"If at 20 you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart
If at 40 you still a liberal, you don't have a brain"
It's the thinking with the bleeding heart that has us in
the hole we're in...time to start using the head and being
realistic.
Enough of this heart horse shite, people are sick of it!

QuoteIf by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."
John F Kennedy[/b]
Ah yes, but;
No matter how great the intentions...one must occasionally
look at the results  :-X
-T.O
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2011, 01:13:57 AM
I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Tyrone's Own, you're no Jack Kennedy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2011, 01:21:04 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2011, 07:45:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
Quote"If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought here by no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart," Perry said at Thursday's Fox News/Google debate in Orlando.
Let me put it this way;
"If at 20 you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart
If at 40 you still a liberal, you don't have a brain"
It's the thinking with the bleeding heart that has us in
the hole we're in...time to start using the head and being
realistic.
Enough of this heart horse shite, people are sick of it!

QuoteIf by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."
John F Kennedy[/b]
Ah yes, but;
No matter how great the intentions...one must occasionally
look at the results  :-X
-T.O

Yes, all those evil causes championed by liberals over the years (with the aid of some conservatives, to be fair, although all those men would be run out of the current Republican party as treasonous RINOs) to improve the environment, public health, wildlife protection, worker safety, consumer safety (thank christ the great Teddy Roosevelt founded what became the FDA - no better day than today to show their necessity, flawed and all as they are), civil rights, gay rights, women's rights, healthcare, capital punishment abolition and on and on have really affected the country for the worse! Oh for the days of burning rivers and acid rain and Bull Connor! Of course that is not to say that all attempts to fix all these things have worked as hoped, but at least liberals are trying to address those issues, not trying to leave everything and everyone at the mercy of the blessed free market, as conservatives apparently want to do (except for the government programs they like of course... better keep those filthy, commie government paws off their medicare and social security and keep those faggots from hitching up together!).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 01, 2011, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2011, 01:21:04 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2011, 07:45:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
Quote"If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought here by no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart," Perry said at Thursday's Fox News/Google debate in Orlando.
Let me put it this way;
"If at 20 you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart
If at 40 you still a liberal, you don't have a brain"
It's the thinking with the bleeding heart that has us in
the hole we're in...time to start using the head and being
realistic.
Enough of this heart horse shite, people are sick of it!

QuoteIf by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."
John F Kennedy[/b]
Ah yes, but;
No matter how great the intentions...one must occasionally
look at the results  :-X
-T.O

Yes, all those evil causes championed by liberals over the years (with the aid of some conservatives, to be fair, although all those men would be run out of the current Republican party as treasonous RINOs) to improve the environment, public health, wildlife protection, worker safety, consumer safety (thank christ the great Teddy Roosevelt founded what became the FDA - no better day than today to show their necessity, flawed and all as they are), civil rights, gay rights, women's rights, healthcare, capital punishment abolition and on and on have really affected the country for the worse! Oh for the days of burning rivers and acid rain and Bull Connor! Of course that is not to say that all attempts to fix all these things have worked as hoped, but at least liberals are trying to address those issues, not trying to leave everything and everyone at the mercy of the blessed free market, as conservatives apparently want to do (except for the government programs they like of course... better keep those filthy, commie government paws off their medicare and social security and keep those faggots from hitching up together!).
To use the term over reaching here might just come up a bit short....the sensationalized, exaggerated opinion here is simply akin to repositioning the deck chairs on the Titanic as she's going down. Right out of the gate this buffoon tried to champion every single progressive utopian cause including ramming his unconstitutional health care monstrosity down our throats without anyone knowing what was in it and all while the house was burning down around us.
As Joe Biden himself said a couple of years ago with the first of their failed jobs bills... It's all about a three letter word: J.O.B.S" ::)

Ask those on the unemployment lines how Obummer's utopian pipe dream is working for them!
He's a one termer... stop the bleeding, it's time to face it lads!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/joe-biden-own-economy-problems-not-bush-203337507.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 01, 2011, 05:32:58 PM
You see this is what having to pass monstrous Trillion dollar bills ("to see what is in it" as Pelosi remarked)
will do for you >:(

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/30/bending-obamacares-honesty-curve-downward/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 01, 2011, 06:41:10 PM
Blah blah blah you hate Obama this is not new. . . who is your alternative? Who do the public think will turn this around?

You all had your chance to pick the right man for the job and Obama was it. Now he isn't who is the next "hope" who you will vote into office and then slag off for the next 4 years??

It looks very much like Obama's election to lose. It looks very much like "Better the Devil you know"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 01, 2011, 09:38:07 PM
QuoteBlah blah blah you hate Obama this is not new
Yes, for his reckless inept policies that are driving us further into the ground!
Quotewho is your alternative?
Absolutely anybody... He has actually helped Jimmy Carter look like Lincoln at this point, and that took some doing :o
QuoteYou all had your chance to pick the right man for the job and Obama was it
Really? .. it's that type of ignorance that makes me question myself for giving dunderheads like you the time of day
QuoteIt looks very much like Obama's election to lose. It looks very much like "Better the Devil you know"
* see above remark ::)
QuoteNow he isn't who is the next "hope" who you will vote into office and then slag off for the next 4 years??
Hope  ::) Eh.. I don't deal in hope... that get's left to the idiot Ideologues around here!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 02, 2011, 09:36:40 PM
Very quiet here...the pair of ye must be down on Wall st.
And stay of the road lads, cars need to use that bridge 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 02, 2011, 10:13:49 PM
Ta se lofa . Obama and the Republicans.  Tweedledum and Tweedledee
The 2012 Presidential  election will cost 2 BILLION DOLLARS.

Obama: A disaster for civil liberties

He may prove the most disastrous president in our history in terms of civil liberties

 

By Jonathan Turley

September 29, 2011

With the 2012 presidential election before us, the country is again caught up in debating national security issues, our ongoing wars and the threat of terrorism. There is one related subject, however, that is rarely mentioned: civil liberties.

Protecting individual rights and liberties — apart from the right to be tax-free — seems barely relevant to candidates or voters. One man is primarily responsible for the disappearance of civil liberties from the national debate, and he is Barack Obama. While many are reluctant to admit it, Obama has proved a disaster not just for specific civil liberties but the civil liberties cause in the United States .

Civil libertarians have long had a dysfunctional relationship with the Democratic Party, which treats them as a captive voting bloc with nowhere else to turn in elections. Not even this history, however, prepared civil libertarians for Obama. After the George W. Bush years, they were ready to fight to regain ground lost after Sept. 11. Historically, this country has tended to correct periods of heightened police powers with a pendulum swing back toward greater individual rights. Many were questioning the extreme measures taken by the Bush administration, especially after the disclosure of abuses and illegalities. Candidate Obama capitalized on this swing and portrayed himself as the champion of civil liberties.

However, President Obama not only retained the controversial Bush policies, he expanded on them. The earliest, and most startling, move came quickly. Soon after his election, various military and political figures reported that Obama reportedly promised Bush officials in private that no one would be investigated or prosecuted for torture. In his first year, Obama made good on that promise, announcing that no CIA employee would be prosecuted for torture. Later, his administration refused to prosecute any of the Bush officials responsible for ordering or justifying the program and embraced the "just following orders" defense for other officials, the very defense rejected by the United States at the Nuremberg trials after World War II.

Obama failed to close Guantanamo Bay as promised. He continued warrantless surveillance and military tribunals that denied defendants basic rights. He asserted the right to kill U.S. citizens he views as terrorists. His administration has fought to block dozens of public-interest lawsuits challenging privacy violations and presidential abuses.

But perhaps the biggest blow to civil liberties is what he has done to the movement itself. It has quieted to a whisper, muted by the power of Obama's personality and his symbolic importance as the first black president as well as the liberal who replaced Bush. Indeed, only a few days after he took office, the Nobel committee awarded him the Nobel Peace Prize without his having a single accomplishment to his credit beyond being elected. Many Democrats were, and remain, enraptured.

It's almost a classic case of the Stockholm syndrome, in which a hostage bonds with his captor despite the obvious threat to his existence. Even though many Democrats admit in private that they are shocked by Obama's position on civil liberties, they are incapable of opposing him. Some insist that they are simply motivated by realism: A Republican would be worse. However, realism alone cannot explain the utter absence of a push for an alternative Democratic candidate or organized opposition to Obama's policies on civil liberties in Congress during his term. It looks more like a cult of personality. Obama's policies have become secondary to his persona.

Ironically, had Obama been defeated in 2008, it is likely that an alliance for civil liberties might have coalesced and effectively fought the government's burgeoning police powers. A Gallup poll released this week shows 49% of Americans, a record since the poll began asking this question in 2003, believe that "the federal government poses an immediate threat to individuals' rights and freedoms." Yet the Obama administration long ago made a cynical calculation that it already had such voters in the bag and tacked to the right on this issue to show Obama was not "soft" on terror. He assumed that, yet again, civil libertarians might grumble and gripe but, come election day, they would not dare stay home.

This calculation may be wrong. Obama may have flown by the fail-safe line, especially when it comes to waterboarding. For many civil libertarians, it will be virtually impossible to vote for someone who has flagrantly ignored the Convention Against Torture or its underlying Nuremberg Principles. As Obama and Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr. have admitted, waterboarding is clearly torture and has been long defined as such by both international and U.S. courts. It is not only a crime but a war crime. By blocking the investigation and prosecution of those responsible for torture, Obama violated international law and reinforced other countries in refusing investigation of their own alleged war crimes. The administration magnified the damage by blocking efforts of other countries like Spain from investigating our alleged war crimes. In this process, his administration shredded principles on the accountability of government officials and lawyers facilitating war crimes and further destroyed the credibility of the U.S. in objecting to civil liberties abuses abroad.

In time, the election of Barack Obama may stand as one of the single most devastating events in our history for civil liberties. Now the president has begun campaigning for a second term. He will again be selling himself more than his policies, but he is likely to find many civil libertarians who simply are not buying.

Jonathan Turley is a professor of law at George Washington University .

 

 

Jeffrey Blankfort September 29, 2011 at 6:26 pm

I disagree with Sullivan and think we might try viewing Obama in a different light, including taking a good look into who was behind his introduction to the American elctorate at the 2004 Democratic convention which set the stage for the 2008 presidential campaign.

If one looks at the total Obama package, that is, what he has done in terms of both foreign and domestic policy, his pro-Israel, anti-Muslim stance has a remarkable degree of consistency with the former as does his crackdown on civil liberties domestically. Even without his craven address to the UN, having escalated the US wars in seven predominantly Muslim countries has not endeared him to the populations of those countries (and what better choice for that job than a black man named Barack Hussein Obama?)

I have begun to think that we, along with much of the world, have been snookered by the campaign that has been raised against Obama by the far-right that he is a secret Muslim, and that this campaign has been fed and kept alive to provide Obama with a cover and make it seem that he is a helpless victim that is doing is best under difficult circumstances.
All the while, beginning with the shipment of 55 bunker busters to Israel early in his presidency, he has gone on to provide Israel with more weaponry and closer military to military cooperation than any other president and he has not taken a single serious step to prevent Israel from seizing more Palestinian land and expanding its West Bank settlements.

What we have seen from Washington and Jerusalem may have been a charade designed to make the adherents to both sides believe there was a division when none really existed.

I do not accept as a fact that a veto-proof pro-Israel majority in Congress would have been sufficient to defeat Obama had he chosen to make a speech to the American people, telling the truth about the US-Israel relationship, much as Pres. GHW Bush did 20 years ago this month when also faced with as strong a veto-proof majority in both houses supporting Israel's demand for $10 billion in loan guarantees, he stepped before the microphones and squashed it in its tracks. I mentioned this in a post the other day, along with the fact that the polls showed the American public backed Bush Sr. up overwhelmingly.

This history is not unfamiliar, I suspect, to Obama and it should raise new, serious questions about his background and backers that are far more serious than questions about his birthplace.

 

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/201192514364490977.html

  Is the world too big to fail?



Noam Chomsky explains how the global order of power has been created and describes the mechanisms behind its continuity


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2011, 10:42:28 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 01, 2011, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2011, 01:21:04 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2011, 07:45:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
Quote"If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought here by no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart," Perry said at Thursday's Fox News/Google debate in Orlando.
Let me put it this way;
"If at 20 you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart
If at 40 you still a liberal, you don't have a brain"
It's the thinking with the bleeding heart that has us in
the hole we're in...time to start using the head and being
realistic.
Enough of this heart horse shite, people are sick of it!

QuoteIf by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."
John F Kennedy[/b]
Ah yes, but;
No matter how great the intentions...one must occasionally
look at the results  :-X
-T.O

Yes, all those evil causes championed by liberals over the years (with the aid of some conservatives, to be fair, although all those men would be run out of the current Republican party as treasonous RINOs) to improve the environment, public health, wildlife protection, worker safety, consumer safety (thank christ the great Teddy Roosevelt founded what became the FDA - no better day than today to show their necessity, flawed and all as they are), civil rights, gay rights, women's rights, healthcare, capital punishment abolition and on and on have really affected the country for the worse! Oh for the days of burning rivers and acid rain and Bull Connor! Of course that is not to say that all attempts to fix all these things have worked as hoped, but at least liberals are trying to address those issues, not trying to leave everything and everyone at the mercy of the blessed free market, as conservatives apparently want to do (except for the government programs they like of course... better keep those filthy, commie government paws off their medicare and social security and keep those faggots from hitching up together!).
To use the term over reaching here might just come up a bit short....the sensationalized, exaggerated opinion here is simply akin to repositioning the deck chairs on the Titanic as she's going down. Right out of the gate this buffoon tried to champion every single progressive utopian cause including ramming his unconstitutional health care monstrosity down our throats without anyone knowing what was in it and all while the house was burning down around us.
As Joe Biden himself said a couple of years ago with the first of their failed jobs bills... It's all about a three letter word: J.O.B.S" ::)

Ask those on the unemployment lines how Obummer's utopian pipe dream is working for them!
He's a one termer... stop the bleeding, it's time to face it lads!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/joe-biden-own-economy-problems-not-bush-203337507.html

The sheer hypocrisy (or perhaps its simply a lack of self awareness) of someone like you labeling someone else's opinion as overreaching, sensationalized and exagerrated is simply breathtaking.

My point stands. There are plenty of issues such as those I listed, in response to your lazy, simplistic, outdated Churchill quote, where what is, in US politics, the liberal position, is the only worthy one. That has nothing to do with Obama's performance or the performance of either party or the awful range of candidates the Republicans are putting up.

And yes, Biden is correct.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 03, 2011, 04:21:44 AM
QuoteMy point stands. There are plenty of issues such as those I listed, in response to your lazy, simplistic, outdated Churchill quote, where what is, in US politics, the liberal position, is the only worthy one. That has nothing to do with Obama's performance or the performance of either party or the awful range of candidates the Republicans are putting up.
:D Wha... He has championed the progressive Liberal utopia like no other that ever came before him, wise up... It has everything to do with him!
QuoteAnd yes, Biden is correct.
See... it's really not that difficult to break down and call a spade a spade, you're now two for two... we're beginning to get somewhere here :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2011, 05:20:59 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2011, 04:21:44 AM
He has championed the progressive Liberal utopia like no other that ever came before him,

So returning taxes to Reagan-era levels is the "progressive liberal utopia"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 03, 2011, 06:00:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2011, 05:20:59 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2011, 04:21:44 AM
He has championed the progressive Liberal utopia like no other that ever came before him,

So returning taxes to Reagan-era levels is the "progressive liberal utopia"?
Yes by being dragged kicking and screaming...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 04, 2011, 04:19:49 PM
Come Clean and Cut Funding
What did the President know and when did he know it, goes the old Washington adage. Thus did the American people learn yesterday in separate but equally startling revelations that the Obama Administration knew more about two scandals than it has been revealing. The first is regarding the Operation Fast and Furious gun running disaster and the second is the now-bankrupt, Obama-backed Solyndra solar power company. Both instances provoke serious questions for the White House and demand long-overdue action. In the case of the Solyndra scandal, it is clear that Congress must shut off funding for the President's green energy programs. Not only is President Obama unapologetic about the wasted funds, but his Energy Department seems intent on doubling down with other solar bets--and with the American people's money. In the case of Fast and Furious, Department of Justice (DOJ) memos obtained by CBS News show that Attorney General Eric Holder was aware of a controversial cross-border law enforcement operation in July 2010 --nearly a year earlier than he had previously acknowledged under oath in testimony to Congress. The program, which was overseen by the DOJ, launched an effort to sell weapons to small-time gun buyers in the hopes of tracing them to major weapons traffickers along the southwestern border and into Mexico. Of the 2,000 weapons sold, roughly 1,500 remain unaccounted for, and the weapons have been connected to at least 11 violent crimes in the United States, including the killing of a border patrol agent. Testifying before the House Judiciary Committee in May 2011, Holder said that he had "probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks." CBS News notes that the pair of memos "directly contradicts [Holder's] statement to Congress." Heritage's Lachlan Markay reports: On July 9, 2010, Michael Walther, director of DOJ's National Drug Intelligence Center, briefed Holder on Fast and Furious, which he mentioned by name, according to one of the memos. The operation "involves a Phoenix-based firearms trafficking ring," Walther wrote, and an unidentified number of "straw purchasers," who "are responsible for the purchase of 1,500 firearms that were then supplied to Mexican trafficking cartels." Four months later Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who heads DOJ's criminal division, informed Holder of eight arrests relating to Fast and Furious, which he also referred to by name. "The Justice Department told CBS News that the officials in those emails were talking about a different case started before Eric Holder became Attorney General," the network reported. "And CBS News reported that Holder misunderstood that question from the committee --he did know about Fast and Furious --just not the details." Heritage Senior Legal Fellow Hans von Spakovsky says, "This raises serious questions about Holder's credibility and whether or not he provided accurate information to Congress." Then there's the case of Solyndra, the company that received a $535 million government-backed loan to produce solar panels, then went bankrupt. President Obama visited the company in May 2010 and hailed it as "a testament to American ingenuity and dynamism," using it as a showpiece of his "green" jobs initiative. Since the company's bankruptcy in September, questions have been raised about the propriety of the loan and the process by which the Obama Administration is picking winners and losers in the marketplace. In a new development, e-mails released Monday show that President Obama received advanced warning about the company's financial condition and pleas that he reconsider visiting the company in order to avoid political embarrassment. The Washington Post reports on the exchange: "A number of us are concerned that the president is visiting Solyndra," California investor and Obama fundraiser Steve Westly wrote to Obama senior adviser Valerie Jarrett in May 2010. "Many of us believe the company's cost structure will make it difficult for them to survive long term. . . I just want to help protect the president from anything that could result in negative or unfair press." Yet despite the warnings about the company's financial condition, the Obama Administration went ahead with the loan, putting 535 million taxpayer dollars at risk on a venture that had red flags all over it. Remarkably, in an interview yesterday with ABC News, President Obama defended his Administration's backing of Solyndra, saying "hindsight is always 20-20" and that Solyndra "went through the regular review process and people felt like this was a good bet." This, though, was not even a question of hindsight, but of sheer stubbornness in the face of contrary evidence. As the e-mails reveal, the White House had the benefit of foresight--advance warning that the company was on shaky ground. But the e-mails weren't even the only warnings. The Wall Street Journal reports that "by late 2010, Solyndra ran into such severe cash problems that it violated terms of its loan, and the government restructured its agreement in a way that allowed private investors, who agreed to provide a $75 million loan, to be paid ahead of the U.S. if the firm was liquidated." Yet despite all this, the President went ahead and put taxpayer dollars on the line. Both Operation Fast and Furious and the Solyndra investment raise serious questions about the Obama Administration. In the case of Fast and Furious, it is now clear that Attorney General Holder and the DOJ have not been forthright with the American people. It's time they give the country a full accounting of the operation, its knowledge of it, and why they have not been forthcoming. As for Solyndra and the President's green jobs gambit, there is certain clarity that the Administration's strategy of backing companies that can't stand on their own two feet is a failure. Congress should cut off funding for the President's green energy programs, regardless of whether the President wishes to see the writing on the wall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 04, 2011, 04:32:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 04, 2011, 04:19:49 PM
Come Clean and Cut Funding
What did the President know and when did he know it, goes the old Washington adage....Congress should cut off funding for the President's green energy programs, regardless of whether the President wishes to see the writing on the wall.

When you are just going to cut and paste pieces from the Heritage foundation you could at least provide a link to the source.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 04, 2011, 05:06:03 PM
Why not stay on topic...is it that painful?
Yes it's a paste from my cell phone for handiness
But sure feel free to knock holes in it...if you can 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 04, 2011, 06:44:10 PM
Fair play to you TO. Fighting the good fight day in and day out, I don't know how you can stick it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 04, 2011, 07:44:45 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2011, 04:21:44 AM
QuoteMy point stands. There are plenty of issues such as those I listed, in response to your lazy, simplistic, outdated Churchill quote, where what is, in US politics, the liberal position, is the only worthy one. That has nothing to do with Obama's performance or the performance of either party or the awful range of candidates the Republicans are putting up.
:D Wha... He has championed the progressive Liberal utopia like no other that ever came before him, wise up... It has everything to do with him!

All right, I guess I'll have to spell it out for you. Whether or not, from your or my or whoever's perspective, Obama or any other politician has failed or succeeded, does not mean that the issues they failed at addressing, whether through poor design or the limits of politics and compromise, are not worthy ones. And given that his base is deserting him for offering such poor leadership and limp resistance to a Republican party held hostage by the tea party, his championing of the "progressive Liberal utopia" is just a slight exaggeration on your part, don't you think? (Yes, I'm sure from your John Birchesque perspective, he's one stop short of Lenin, but we're talking about reality here).

And for someone who, just three or four days ago, was complaining about exaggeration and sensationalization on my part, you once again demonstrate that there's no one better at dishing it out. Almost as amusing as the occasion a month or two ago when you, with your "Obummer" and whatever other labels you use, were giving someone shit for using insulting, juvenile plays on George W Bush's name!

Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2011, 04:21:44 AM
QuoteAnd yes, Biden is correct.
See... it's really not that difficult to break down and call a spade a spade, you're now two for two... we're beginning to get somewhere here :)

Well at least I've got the balls to defend a position and admit when the politicians representing my side are found wanting. Unlike yourself...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 11, 2011, 01:02:40 PM
Paul Krugman is professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University and a regular columnist for The New York Times. Krugman was the 2008 recipient of the Nobel Prize in Economics - so a raving socialiast then - here's his take on the good Ol US

Panic of the Plutocrats
by Paul Krugman
It remains to be seen whether the Occupy Wall Street protests will change America's direction. Yet the protests have already elicited a remarkably hysterical reaction from Wall Street, the super-rich in general, and politicians and pundits who reliably serve the interests of the wealthiest hundredth of a percent.

And this reaction tells you something important — namely, that the extremists threatening American values are what F.D.R. called "economic royalists," not the people camping in Zuccotti Park.

Consider first how Republican politicians have portrayed the modest-sized if growing demonstrations, which have involved some confrontations with the police — confrontations that seem to have involved a lot of police overreaction — but nothing one could call a riot. And there has in fact been nothing so far to match the behavior of Tea Party crowds in the summer of 2009.

Nonetheless, Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, has denounced "mobs" and "the pitting of Americans against Americans." The G.O.P. presidential candidates have weighed in, with Mitt Romney accusing the protesters of waging "class warfare," while Herman Cain calls them "anti-American." My favorite, however, is Senator Rand Paul, who for some reason worries that the protesters will start seizing iPads, because they believe rich people don't deserve to have them.

Michael Bloomberg, New York's mayor and a financial-industry titan in his own right, was a bit more moderate, but still accused the protesters of trying to "take the jobs away from people working in this city," a statement that bears no resemblance to the movement's actual goals.

And if you were listening to talking heads on CNBC, you learned that the protesters "let their freak flags fly," and are "aligned with Lenin."

The way to understand all of this is to realize that it's part of a broader syndrome, in which wealthy Americans who benefit hugely from a system rigged in their favor react with hysteria to anyone who points out just how rigged the system is.

Last year, you may recall, a number of financial-industry barons went wild over very mild criticism from President Obama. They denounced Mr. Obama as being almost a socialist for endorsing the so-called Volcker rule, which would simply prohibit banks backed by federal guarantees from engaging in risky speculation. And as for their reaction to proposals to close a loophole that lets some of them pay remarkably low taxes — well, Stephen Schwarzman, chairman of the Blackstone Group, compared it to Hitler's invasion of Poland.

And then there's the campaign of character assassination against Elizabeth Warren, the financial reformer now running for the Senate in Massachusetts. Not long ago a YouTube video of Ms. Warren making an eloquent, down-to-earth case for taxes on the rich went viral. Nothing about what she said was radical — it was no more than a modern riff on Oliver Wendell Holmes's famous dictum that "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."

But listening to the reliable defenders of the wealthy, you'd think that Ms. Warren was the second coming of Leon Trotsky. George Will declared that she has a "collectivist agenda," that she believes that "individualism is a chimera." And Rush Limbaugh called her "a parasite who hates her host. Willing to destroy the host while she sucks the life out of it."

What's going on here? The answer, surely, is that Wall Street's Masters of the Universe realize, deep down, how morally indefensible their position is. They're not John Galt; they're not even Steve Jobs. They're people who got rich by peddling complex financial schemes that, far from delivering clear benefits to the American people, helped push us into a crisis whose aftereffects continue to blight the lives of tens of millions of their fellow citizens.

Yet they have paid no price. Their institutions were bailed out by taxpayers, with few strings attached. They continue to benefit from explicit and implicit federal guarantees — basically, they're still in a game of heads they win, tails taxpayers lose. And they benefit from tax loopholes that in many cases have people with multimillion-dollar incomes paying lower rates than middle-class families.

This special treatment can't bear close scrutiny — and therefore, as they see it, there must be no close scrutiny. Anyone who points out the obvious, no matter how calmly and moderately, must be demonized and driven from the stage. In fact, the more reasonable and moderate a critic sounds, the more urgently he or she must be demonized, hence the frantic sliming of Elizabeth Warren.

So who's really being un-American here? Not the protesters, who are simply trying to get their voices heard. No, the real extremists here are America's oligarchs, who want to suppress any criticism of the sources of their wealth.

© 2011 The New York Times Company
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 11, 2011, 05:56:31 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 11, 2011, 01:02:40 PM
Paul Krugman is professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University and a regular columnist for The New York Times. Krugman was the 2008 recipient of the Nobel Prize in Economics - so a raving socialiast then - here's his take on the good Ol US

Panic of the Plutocrats
by Paul Krugman
It remains to be seen whether the Occupy Wall Street protests will change America's direction. Yet the protests have already elicited a remarkably hysterical reaction from Wall Street, the super-rich in general, and politicians and pundits who reliably serve the interests of the wealthiest hundredth of a percent.

And this reaction tells you something important — namely, that the extremists threatening American values are what F.D.R. called "economic royalists," not the people camping in Zuccotti Park.

Consider first how Republican politicians have portrayed the modest-sized if growing demonstrations, which have involved some confrontations with the police — confrontations that seem to have involved a lot of police overreaction — but nothing one could call a riot. And there has in fact been nothing so far to match the behavior of Tea Party crowds in the summer of 2009.

Nonetheless, Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, has denounced "mobs" and "the pitting of Americans against Americans." The G.O.P. presidential candidates have weighed in, with Mitt Romney accusing the protesters of waging "class warfare," while Herman Cain calls them "anti-American." My favorite, however, is Senator Rand Paul, who for some reason worries that the protesters will start seizing iPads, because they believe rich people don't deserve to have them.

Michael Bloomberg, New York's mayor and a financial-industry titan in his own right, was a bit more moderate, but still accused the protesters of trying to "take the jobs away from people working in this city," a statement that bears no resemblance to the movement's actual goals.

And if you were listening to talking heads on CNBC, you learned that the protesters "let their freak flags fly," and are "aligned with Lenin."

The way to understand all of this is to realize that it's part of a broader syndrome, in which wealthy Americans who benefit hugely from a system rigged in their favor react with hysteria to anyone who points out just how rigged the system is.

Last year, you may recall, a number of financial-industry barons went wild over very mild criticism from President Obama. They denounced Mr. Obama as being almost a socialist for endorsing the so-called Volcker rule, which would simply prohibit banks backed by federal guarantees from engaging in risky speculation. And as for their reaction to proposals to close a loophole that lets some of them pay remarkably low taxes — well, Stephen Schwarzman, chairman of the Blackstone Group, compared it to Hitler's invasion of Poland.

And then there's the campaign of character assassination against Elizabeth Warren, the financial reformer now running for the Senate in Massachusetts. Not long ago a YouTube video of Ms. Warren making an eloquent, down-to-earth case for taxes on the rich went viral. Nothing about what she said was radical — it was no more than a modern riff on Oliver Wendell Holmes's famous dictum that "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."

But listening to the reliable defenders of the wealthy, you'd think that Ms. Warren was the second coming of Leon Trotsky. George Will declared that she has a "collectivist agenda," that she believes that "individualism is a chimera." And Rush Limbaugh called her "a parasite who hates her host. Willing to destroy the host while she sucks the life out of it."

What's going on here? The answer, surely, is that Wall Street's Masters of the Universe realize, deep down, how morally indefensible their position is. They're not John Galt; they're not even Steve Jobs. They're people who got rich by peddling complex financial schemes that, far from delivering clear benefits to the American people, helped push us into a crisis whose aftereffects continue to blight the lives of tens of millions of their fellow citizens.

Yet they have paid no price. Their institutions were bailed out by taxpayers, with few strings attached. They continue to benefit from explicit and implicit federal guarantees — basically, they're still in a game of heads they win, tails taxpayers lose. And they benefit from tax loopholes that in many cases have people with multimillion-dollar incomes paying lower rates than middle-class families.

This special treatment can't bear close scrutiny — and therefore, as they see it, there must be no close scrutiny. Anyone who points out the obvious, no matter how calmly and moderately, must be demonized and driven from the stage. In fact, the more reasonable and moderate a critic sounds, the more urgently he or she must be demonized, hence the frantic sliming of Elizabeth Warren.

So who's really being un-American here? Not the protesters, who are simply trying to get their voices heard. No, the real extremists here are America's oligarchs, who want to suppress any criticism of the sources of their wealth.

© 2011 The New York Times Company

This Paul Krugman Declan... Jaysus let me sit back in my favorite chair and let the pearls of
wisdom from the wise one sink right in  ::)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/paul-krugman-fake-alien-invasion_n_926995.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 11, 2011, 06:10:59 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 11, 2011, 05:56:31 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 11, 2011, 01:02:40 PM
Paul Krugman is professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University and a regular columnist for The New York Times. Krugman was the 2008 recipient of the Nobel Prize in Economics - so a raving socialiast then - here's his take on the good Ol US

Panic of the Plutocrats
by Paul Krugman
It remains to be seen whether the Occupy Wall Street protests will change America's direction. Yet the protests have already elicited a remarkably hysterical reaction from Wall Street, the super-rich in general, and politicians and pundits who reliably serve the interests of the wealthiest hundredth of a percent.

And this reaction tells you something important — namely, that the extremists threatening American values are what F.D.R. called "economic royalists," not the people camping in Zuccotti Park.

Consider first how Republican politicians have portrayed the modest-sized if growing demonstrations, which have involved some confrontations with the police — confrontations that seem to have involved a lot of police overreaction — but nothing one could call a riot. And there has in fact been nothing so far to match the behavior of Tea Party crowds in the summer of 2009.

Nonetheless, Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, has denounced "mobs" and "the pitting of Americans against Americans." The G.O.P. presidential candidates have weighed in, with Mitt Romney accusing the protesters of waging "class warfare," while Herman Cain calls them "anti-American." My favorite, however, is Senator Rand Paul, who for some reason worries that the protesters will start seizing iPads, because they believe rich people don't deserve to have them.

Michael Bloomberg, New York's mayor and a financial-industry titan in his own right, was a bit more moderate, but still accused the protesters of trying to "take the jobs away from people working in this city," a statement that bears no resemblance to the movement's actual goals.

And if you were listening to talking heads on CNBC, you learned that the protesters "let their freak flags fly," and are "aligned with Lenin."

The way to understand all of this is to realize that it's part of a broader syndrome, in which wealthy Americans who benefit hugely from a system rigged in their favor react with hysteria to anyone who points out just how rigged the system is.

Last year, you may recall, a number of financial-industry barons went wild over very mild criticism from President Obama. They denounced Mr. Obama as being almost a socialist for endorsing the so-called Volcker rule, which would simply prohibit banks backed by federal guarantees from engaging in risky speculation. And as for their reaction to proposals to close a loophole that lets some of them pay remarkably low taxes — well, Stephen Schwarzman, chairman of the Blackstone Group, compared it to Hitler's invasion of Poland.

And then there's the campaign of character assassination against Elizabeth Warren, the financial reformer now running for the Senate in Massachusetts. Not long ago a YouTube video of Ms. Warren making an eloquent, down-to-earth case for taxes on the rich went viral. Nothing about what she said was radical — it was no more than a modern riff on Oliver Wendell Holmes's famous dictum that "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."

But listening to the reliable defenders of the wealthy, you'd think that Ms. Warren was the second coming of Leon Trotsky. George Will declared that she has a "collectivist agenda," that she believes that "individualism is a chimera." And Rush Limbaugh called her "a parasite who hates her host. Willing to destroy the host while she sucks the life out of it."

What's going on here? The answer, surely, is that Wall Street's Masters of the Universe realize, deep down, how morally indefensible their position is. They're not John Galt; they're not even Steve Jobs. They're people who got rich by peddling complex financial schemes that, far from delivering clear benefits to the American people, helped push us into a crisis whose aftereffects continue to blight the lives of tens of millions of their fellow citizens.

Yet they have paid no price. Their institutions were bailed out by taxpayers, with few strings attached. They continue to benefit from explicit and implicit federal guarantees — basically, they're still in a game of heads they win, tails taxpayers lose. And they benefit from tax loopholes that in many cases have people with multimillion-dollar incomes paying lower rates than middle-class families.

This special treatment can't bear close scrutiny — and therefore, as they see it, there must be no close scrutiny. Anyone who points out the obvious, no matter how calmly and moderately, must be demonized and driven from the stage. In fact, the more reasonable and moderate a critic sounds, the more urgently he or she must be demonized, hence the frantic sliming of Elizabeth Warren.

So who's really being un-American here? Not the protesters, who are simply trying to get their voices heard. No, the real extremists here are America's oligarchs, who want to suppress any criticism of the sources of their wealth.

© 2011 The New York Times Company

This Paul Krugman Declan... Jaysus let me sit back in my favorite chair and let the pearls of
wisdom from the wise one sink right in  ::)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/paul-krugman-fake-alien-invasion_n_926995.html

Eh I believe that was a joke. WW2 was good for jobs though, 20% unemployed in 1939 to 1% in 1944. Unfortunately the economic benefit of the present wars has stayed in very few hands, due the system being protested against. Protesters messed up though, they should have started in the summer, there won't be too many of them out there when it starts getting cold soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 11, 2011, 06:25:31 PM
FFS anyone who can read can see from the very link TO posted that Krugman was joking and using it to illustrate his point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on October 11, 2011, 10:17:00 PM
(http://cdn.drizzydrake.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/stevie-wonder.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 11, 2011, 11:45:24 PM
Exactly... open your eyes lads. Nobody pays that biased clown any bit of attention
bar the New York Times readers amongst us  8)
FFS John Kerry never flip flopped and back tracked as much as Krugman has
as an economist/columnist!
Have to laugh at the lead out any time his crap is posted on here about
how he's a nobel winner...need I remind any of ye that Barrack won one of those too  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2011, 12:16:35 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 11, 2011, 11:45:24 PM
Have to laugh at the lead out any time his crap is posted on here about
how he's a nobel winner...need I remind any of ye that Barrack won one of those too  ::)

Bush sure as shit didn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2011, 12:16:35 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 11, 2011, 11:45:24 PM
Have to laugh at the lead out any time his crap is posted on here about
how he's a nobel winner...need I remind any of ye that Barrack won one of those too  ::)

Bush sure as shit didn't.
Correct... like the two mentioned above, he didn't deserve one  :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
If there was a Nobel prize for contributions to satire I'm sure Bush would have walked away with it 8 years in a row.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2011, 01:26:34 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 11, 2011, 11:45:24 PM
Exactly... open your eyes lads. Nobody pays that biased clown any bit of attention
bar the New York Times readers amongst us  8)
FFS John Kerry never flip flopped and back tracked as much as Krugman has
as an economist/columnist!
Have to laugh at the lead out any time his crap is posted on here about
how he's a nobel winner...need I remind any of ye that Barrack won one of those too  ::)

Yet the whole right wing, Reagan-venerating, tea/Republican party base their entire economic "policy" on the University of Chicago group, in particular Friedman, who've won more Nobel prizes in economics than any other university. Krugman won for some arcane academic work he did back in the 70s, not for his political views or NY Times columns.

Why anyone would hang on the views of any particular single economist is beyond me anyway. A hard science it is not!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 12, 2011, 06:24:34 AM
As a preface ... I am an old dude who thinks that God gave him 2 ears and one mouth for a reason. So I have limited my engagements on the board for good reason. However my addiction to Mr. T's take on US politics and his ability to make even me feel like even I still have a Christian spirit (compared to MR T) have prompted me to post this rant

As we stand at this time the country is almost impossible to govern because of the myopic greed of a few. The social contract between Main street America and the Financial system is broken and the government has been completely usurped by lobbyists.

Once ( When FRD was in charge) we sent our money to Wall Street and they found a way to invest it in businesses that made things like TV's, Washing machines, steel and clothing in the good ole USA.  Now they can make more money by moving the money we send them into arcane synthesized financial instruments (That's credit default swats) that do nothing for anyone other than create a commission for someone living in the Hamptons.  Unfortunately our F'd up tax code gives us little choice but to keep sending our money to these guys who reward Corporate America for off-shoring real blue collar jobs that pay a decent wage. In the stead of these real jobs we are hiring greeters at Walmart and other minimum wage jobs that leave folks reliant on the Government for healthcare coverage. We rejoice when we create another distribution outfit (Walamrt, Target) that makes it easy for China to feed our voracious appetite for cheap goods while we defend ourselves with (tongue in cheek) Low Tariffs, a crazy currency rate and gift them our technology.


Congress and by extension the Executive branch and Judiciary are bought and paid for. The Republicans and the Democrats are both beholden to wealthy donors (corporate, institutional, private and organizational). The only way to clean the mess up is "campaign finance reform" but no one in any branch of government is voting for that. You saw how McCain (once the great campaigner for campaign finance reform) had to do a 180 degree turn  to get his party's Presidential nomination in 2008 and his co-sponsor Russ Feingold failed to get re-elected in Wisconsin. If you do not join the Lobbyists you get licked.


The notion that Government is not a good thing (Reagan got elected on the back of his derogatory use of  "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help") and the consistent mantra coming from the right that all evil emanates from Washington is a foolhardy populist line that does not serve the national interest of the US. We need a citizenry that is bought into making government work.  Putting good people in place who can do a good job and holding them accountable if they do not. Instead we get Tea-party hypocrites who take government subsidies and free healthcare from the government while lecturing the rest of us that we should look after our own healthcare needs.

In a country where so many people can be conned into voting against their economic self-interest so regularly by clever manipulative mavens I am not holding my breath for any decent things to occur any time soon.

And as long as we have the likes of Mr T. espousing the politics of self interest over Henry Ford's notion of "pay them enough so that they can buy more of my shit" we are in a seriously myopic economic downward cycle that will eventually make Mr. T a less wealthy person than he should be.

Rant over
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 12, 2011, 06:31:18 AM
PS Mr. T before you ask if I know where California is ... I live there ... in the bit where your water comes from...  ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on October 12, 2011, 01:25:06 PM
In light of the news today about those crafty Iranians:

QuoteFamily Guy: Visiting Ground Zero:

Brian: Peter, this is the site of the 9/11 terrorist attacks!

Peter: Oh, so Saddam Hussein did this?

Brian: No.

Peter: The Iraqi army?

Brian: No.

Peter: Some guys from Iraq?

Brian: No.

Peter: That one lady who visited Iraq that one time?

Brian:
NO! Peter, Iraq had nothing to do with this. It was a bunch of Saudi
Arabians, Lebanese, and Egyptians financed by a Saudi Arabian guy living
in Afghanistan and sheltered by Pakistanis.

Peter: So...you're saying we need to invade Iran?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2011, 03:23:15 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 12, 2011, 06:31:18 AM
PS Mr. T before you ask if I know where California is ... I live there ... in the bit where your water comes from...  ;) ;)

Is it true Sarah Palin walks on the stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2011, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 12, 2011, 06:24:34 AM
As a preface ... I am an old dude who thinks that God gave him 2 ears and one mouth for a reason. So I have limited my engagements on the board for good reason. However my addiction to Mr. T's take on US politics and his ability to make even me feel like even I still have a Christian spirit (compared to MR T) have prompted me to post this rant

As we stand at this time the country is almost impossible to govern because of the myopic greed of a few. The social contract between Main street America and the Financial system is broken and the government has been completely usurped by lobbyists.

Once ( When FRD was in charge) we sent our money to Wall Street and they found a way to invest it in businesses that made things like TV's, Washing machines, steel and clothing in the good ole USA.  Now they can make more money by moving the money we send them into arcane synthesized financial instruments (That's credit default swats) that do nothing for anyone other than create a commission for someone living in the Hamptons.  Unfortunately our F'd up tax code gives us little choice but to keep sending our money to these guys who reward Corporate America for off-shoring real blue collar jobs that pay a decent wage. In the stead of these real jobs we are hiring greeters at Walmart and other minimum wage jobs that leave folks reliant on the Government for healthcare coverage. We rejoice when we create another distribution outfit (Walamrt, Target) that makes it easy for China to feed our voracious appetite for cheap goods while we defend ourselves with (tongue in cheek) Low Tariffs, a crazy currency rate and gift them our technology.


Congress and by extension the Executive branch and Judiciary are bought and paid for. The Republicans and the Democrats are both beholden to wealthy donors (corporate, institutional, private and organizational). The only way to clean the mess up is "campaign finance reform" but no one in any branch of government is voting for that. You saw how McCain (once the great campaigner for campaign finance reform) had to do a 180 degree turn  to get his party's Presidential nomination in 2008 and his co-sponsor Russ Feingold failed to get re-elected in Wisconsin. If you do not join the Lobbyists you get licked.


The notion that Government is not a good thing (Reagan got elected on the back of his derogatory use of  "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help") and the consistent mantra coming from the right that all evil emanates from Washington is a foolhardy populist line that does not serve the national interest of the US. We need a citizenry that is bought into making government work.  Putting good people in place who can do a good job and holding them accountable if they do not. Instead we get Tea-party hypocrites who take government subsidies and free healthcare from the government while lecturing the rest of us that we should look after our own healthcare needs.

In a country where so many people can be conned into voting against their economic self-interest so regularly by clever manipulative mavens I am not holding my breath for any decent things to occur any time soon.

And as long as we have the likes of Mr T. espousing the politics of self interest over Henry Ford's notion of "pay them enough so that they can buy more of my shit" we are in a seriously myopic economic downward cycle that will eventually make Mr. T a less wealthy person than he should be.

Rant over

Quality!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 07:03:39 PM
QuoteWhy anyone would hang on the views of any particular single economist is beyond me anyway. A hard science it is not!
I agree but lord knows he's quoted enough around here ...your good self included
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 07:11:35 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 12, 2011, 06:24:34 AM
As a preface ... I am an old dude who thinks that God gave him 2 ears and one mouth for a reason. So I have limited my engagements on the board for good reason. However my addiction to Mr. T's take on US politics and his ability to make even me feel like even I still have a Christian spirit (compared to MR T) have prompted me to post this rant

As we stand at this time the country is almost impossible to govern because of the myopic greed of a few. The social contract between Main street America and the Financial system is broken and the government has been completely usurped by lobbyists.

Once ( When FRD was in charge) we sent our money to Wall Street and they found a way to invest it in businesses that made things like TV's, Washing machines, steel and clothing in the good ole USA.  Now they can make more money by moving the money we send them into arcane synthesized financial instruments (That's credit default swats) that do nothing for anyone other than create a commission for someone living in the Hamptons.  Unfortunately our F'd up tax code gives us little choice but to keep sending our money to these guys who reward Corporate America for off-shoring real blue collar jobs that pay a decent wage. In the stead of these real jobs we are hiring greeters at Walmart and other minimum wage jobs that leave folks reliant on the Government for healthcare coverage. We rejoice when we create another distribution outfit (Walamrt, Target) that makes it easy for China to feed our voracious appetite for cheap goods while we defend ourselves with (tongue in cheek) Low Tariffs, a crazy currency rate and gift them our technology.


Congress and by extension the Executive branch and Judiciary are bought and paid for. The Republicans and the Democrats are both beholden to wealthy donors (corporate, institutional, private and organizational). The only way to clean the mess up is "campaign finance reform" but no one in any branch of government is voting for that. You saw how McCain (once the great campaigner for campaign finance reform) had to do a 180 degree turn  to get his party's Presidential nomination in 2008 and his co-sponsor Russ Feingold failed to get re-elected in Wisconsin. If you do not join the Lobbyists you get licked.


The notion that Government is not a good thing (Reagan got elected on the back of his derogatory use of  "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help") and the consistent mantra coming from the right that all evil emanates from Washington is a foolhardy populist line that does not serve the national interest of the US. We need a citizenry that is bought into making government work.  Putting good people in place who can do a good job and holding them accountable if they do not. Instead we get Tea-party hypocrites who take government subsidies and free healthcare from the government while lecturing the rest of us that we should look after our own healthcare needs.

In a country where so many people can be conned into voting against their economic self-interest so regularly by clever manipulative mavens I am not holding my breath for any decent things to occur any time soon.

And as long as we have the likes of Mr T. espousing the politics of self interest over Henry Ford's notion of "pay them enough so that they can buy more of my shit" we are in a seriously myopic economic downward cycle that will eventually make Mr. T a less wealthy person than he should be.

Rant over
I agree with quite a lot of that...other parts, not so much  :-\
Whats your take on the con job that was the '08 election then
and how's the economic situation up on the mountain?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 07:13:35 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 12, 2011, 06:31:18 AM
PS Mr. T before you ask if I know where California is ... I live there ... in the bit where your water comes from...  ;) ;)
Yes but you haven't brought up the Governor of TEXAS yet  ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 07:25:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2011, 03:23:15 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 12, 2011, 06:31:18 AM
PS Mr. T before you ask if I know where California is ... I live there ... in the bit where your water comes from...  ;) ;)

Is it true Sarah Palin walks on the stuff.
Not sure she ever tried...it was widely believed here however
that Barrack could, though that turned out to be an urban myth  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2011, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 07:03:39 PM
QuoteWhy anyone would hang on the views of any particular single economist is beyond me anyway. A hard science it is not!
I agree but lord knows he's quoted enough around here ...your good self included

I don't recall ever quoting Krugman. But perhaps I'm mistaken. Go ahead.... prove it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2011, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 07:03:39 PM
QuoteWhy anyone would hang on the views of any particular single economist is beyond me anyway. A hard science it is not!
I agree but lord knows he's quoted enough around here ...your good self included

I don't recall ever quoting Krugman. But perhaps I'm mistaken. Go ahead.... prove it.
What...go back over 4500 posts just to prove you wrong, nice try though!

Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2011, 11:24:44 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2011, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 07:03:39 PM
QuoteWhy anyone would hang on the views of any particular single economist is beyond me anyway. A hard science it is not!
I agree but lord knows he's quoted enough around here ...your good self included

I don't recall ever quoting Krugman. But perhaps I'm mistaken. Go ahead.... prove it.
What...go back over 4500 posts just to prove you wrong, nice try though!

Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X

Sorry, but I've never, from what I recall, quoted Krugman. If you're going to claim otherwise, then either back it up or shut the f**k up.

I have no idea if Krugman advised Enron.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 13, 2011, 04:20:16 PM
Jaysus such a temper...finding it harder and harder to swallow this
epic failure of a president or is it that your demands aren't being met
at Zuccotti park  :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 13, 2011, 04:27:41 PM
Heritage;

When President Barack Obama began his Midwest "jobs tour" in August, he set out to campaign for the passage of a yet-to-be-released plan to turn around the country's stagnant economy. But after the details of that plan emerged–more stimulus spending and higher taxes–and when the Democrat-controlled Senate put the measure up for a vote this week, the President's plan was defeated. Even members of the President's own party opposed more taxing and spending as a way of pulling America out of its unemployment ditch. Take Senator Jim Webb (D-VA), for example. The Hill reports that he opposes raising taxes on ordinary income during a time of recession and that the federal government should encourage people to invest in the economy instead of raising their income taxes. In Webb's own words: I strongly believe that the way to bring good jobs back is to improve our economy in the private sector, and that means more capital investment. Winston Churchill once said something to the effect that you can't tax your way out of an economic downturn any more than you can pick up a bucket if you're standing in it. Others from the left, too, staked out opposition to the bill. Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT) took issue with the new spending the President proposed. "The bottom line here is that I don't believe the potential in this act for creating jobs justifies adding another $500 billion to our almost $15 trillion national debt." There's good reason to stand against the President's plan. For one thing, it is hundreds of billions of dollars in new spending on more of the same "stimulus" that has left America with virtually zero job growth and continued economic stagnation. And it's paid for with a massive tax increase on job creators–the very people who would be investing their money to expand businesses and put more Americans back to work. The President proposed permanently raising taxes by $1.5 trillion over 10 years, with most of the burden falling on families and businesses earning more than $250,000 per year, all in the name of "fairness." In a new paper, Heritage's Curtis Dubay explains that the supposed "fairness" of the new rule is anything but fair: To President Obama, it is 'fair' to raise taxes on families and businesses earning more than $250,000 a year by raising their income tax rates and limiting their deductions. That must also mean he believes that they currently pay too little in taxes. Yet the data show the highest-earning families and businesses already pay the lion's share of the federal income tax burden. According to the IRS, the top 1 percent of income earners–those earning more than $380,000 in 2008–paid more than 38 percent of all federal income taxes while earning 20 percent of all income. The top 10 percent ($114,000 and above) earned 45 percent of income and paid 70 percent of all taxes. At the same time, the bottom 50 percent of income earners–those earning less than $33,000–earned 13 percent of all income and paid less than 3 percent of federal income taxes. Then there was Majority Leader Harry Reid's (D-NV) plan to impose a millionaire tax–a 5.6 percent surtax on incomes of married filers earning over $1 million starting on January 1, 2013, pushing the average top U.S. income rate to 55 percent, higher than all but two of the 30 most economically developed countries in the world. Dubay explains how the tax would negatively impact job creation: Taxpayers earning more than $1 million a year are investors and businesses that are directly responsible for creating jobs. Investors provide the capital to existing businesses and startups so they can expand and add new workers. Raising their taxes would deprive them of resources they could invest in promising businesses that are looking to add employees. Raising their tax rate would deter them from taking the risk to invest. It's this philosophy of soaking the rich to pay for more wasteful government spending that has ginned up opposition to the President's jobs plan. The White House, though, isn't getting the message, and it's totally glazing over the bipartisan opposition. White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer laid the blame squarely on Republicans and wrote, "We can't take 'no' for an answer." The President, too, lashed out at the GOP, painting them as a minority that "got together as a group and blocked this jobs bill from passing the Senate." The New York Times got in on the act, too, lambasting the right for its opposition, without acknowledging opposition on the left. Instead of playing the blame game, the President should take a step back and understand why Members of Congress from both sides of the aisle oppose his plan. Raising taxes to pay for stimulus spending that has proven to be a failure simply will not get the economy back on track.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2011, 10:35:02 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 13, 2011, 04:20:16 PM
Jaysus such a temper...finding it harder and harder to swallow this
epic failure of a president or is it that your demands aren't being met
at Zuccotti park  :-\

Nothing to do with Obama or the Wall St protests or any other political issue.  If I quoted Krugman, I'd say so and defend why and where I did so. I'm certainly not going to be basically called a liar by someone like you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X

Just so we're clear, do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2011, 12:10:24 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X

Just so we're clear, do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?

Apparently Krugman spent four days serving on an advisory panel to them in 1999, which he said in retrospect looked to be a PR stunt on Enron's part. Michele Malkin mentioned it the other day when mocking a piece he wrote on the Wall St protests. I presume that's why we're hearing about Krugman and Enron here this week. I wonder do people like her give the likes of Bill Kristol, who was also on the panel, and the Bush administraiton officials also there, the same shit?

Something else I didn't know about Krugman... he worked in the Reagan administration!! I wonder will that stick be used to beat him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 14, 2011, 03:38:25 AM
Onion:

WASHINGTON—According to a Quinnipiac University poll conducted this week, a homemade anti-Obama sign has surged to the front of the 2012 Republican presidential field, emerging as the clear favorite to earn the party's nomination in next year's primaries.


(http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/20680/Handmade_Anti-Obama_R_jpg_600x345_crop-smart_upscale_q85_1.jpg) The sign, which pundits say is nothing short of a GOP "dream candidate."


The telephone survey of 773 likely voters indicated the sign, a piece of poster board bearing the handwritten phrase "NOBAMA 2012" in bold red letters, would defeat former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, its nearest rival, by a landslide 17 percentage points if the primaries were held today. The poll also found the sign had a "favorable" or "highly favorable" rating among 94 percent of registered Republicans, a figure greater than all other presumptive GOP candidates combined.

"We're seeing that voters find the sign more charismatic, more likeable, and much more engaging than other Republican candidates," said political analyst Mark Halperin, adding that the poster's message resonates strongly with conservatives. "In the end, it comes down to two things: the ability to energize the party base, and the power to instill confidence and appear presidential. Right now, it's the sign by far."

"Frankly," Halperin added, "this is the brightest star to emerge from the Republican ranks in the last several elections."

According to Halperin, the 22-by-28-inch poster emerged as a serious contender for the Republican nomination because it offers a clear, consistent vision and refuses to compromise on its fundamental principles. Beltway insiders have also noted that the slogan "Liberty, not debt" on the back of the sign has solidified its appeal with the influential Tea Party bloc.

In addition, the sign has been warmly embraced by social conservatives, who are reportedly drawn to its clean image and lack of personal or political baggage. A recent Zogby poll showed that Americans who identified themselves as values voters favored the sign by a staggering 40-to-1 ratio over former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

"I like what that sign has to say," said 46-year-old Brandon LaFollette of Florence, SC, adding that while he likes the way the poster addresses all his political and economic concerns, it's also the only Republican candidate he could see himself sitting down and having a beer with. "I agree with its positions on the deficit, health care, unemployment, gas prices—everything. And it's not afraid to stand up to the president on every issue."

"Sign 2012!" he added.

Having proved its ability to rally broad segments of the political right, and having suddenly invigorated a campaign season that had been widely considered lackluster and uninspiring, the sign has prompted political pundits to anoint the glossy white placard as "the new face of the GOP" and "a modern-day Ronald Reagan."

"Unfortunately for its competitors, the sign has very few vulnerabilities," said GOP strategist Mike Murphy, who claimed the poster was poised to "coast" to the Republican nomination next August. "It communicates to voters in unambiguous, straightforward terms, it's photogenic, and it possesses a remarkable ability to stay on message."

"The fact that it set a single-day fundraising record doesn't surprise me at all," added Murphy, referring to the $40 million haul it received last Tuesday from an estimated 350,000 citizens, the National Right to Life Committee, the Altria Group, dozens of evangelical radio personalities, the National Rifle Association, the energy lobby, and Charles G. and David H. Koch.

With both moderate and hard-line conservatives lining up behind the handmade poster, Murphy said the sign should focus on the difficult task of winning over crucial independent voters. He argued that if a seasoned anti-tax bumper sticker or an American flag lapel pin were selected as its running mate, the sign could broaden its standing in swing states and pose a formidable challenge to the incumbent Obama.

As the buzz surrounding the sign continues to mount, other Republican candidates have reportedly scrambled to reframe their campaigns and capture a share of the rising voter enthusiasm.

"While the sign and I share a common vision for the future, I would hope that voters turn to a candidate with experience," former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty said. "I may not have the same gift of rhetorical flourish, and I may not be as magnetic or compelling as the poster, but this shouldn't be a popularity contest. If it were, none of us would stand a chance against the sign. We know that."

At press time, Pawlenty had dropped out of the race and was expected to make an announcement Thursday fully endorsing the sign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on October 14, 2011, 04:38:04 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 14, 2011, 03:38:25 AM
Onion:

WASHINGTON—According to a Quinnipiac University poll conducted this week, a homemade anti-Obama sign has surged to the front of the 2012 Republican presidential field, emerging as the clear favorite to earn the party's nomination in next year's primaries.


(http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/20680/Handmade_Anti-Obama_R_jpg_600x345_crop-smart_upscale_q85_1.jpg) The sign, which pundits say is nothing short of a GOP "dream candidate."


The telephone survey of 773 likely voters indicated the sign, a piece of poster board bearing the handwritten phrase "NOBAMA 2012" in bold red letters, would defeat former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, its nearest rival, by a landslide 17 percentage points if the primaries were held today. The poll also found the sign had a "favorable" or "highly favorable" rating among 94 percent of registered Republicans, a figure greater than all other presumptive GOP candidates combined.

"We're seeing that voters find the sign more charismatic, more likeable, and much more engaging than other Republican candidates," said political analyst Mark Halperin, adding that the poster's message resonates strongly with conservatives. "In the end, it comes down to two things: the ability to energize the party base, and the power to instill confidence and appear presidential. Right now, it's the sign by far."

"Frankly," Halperin added, "this is the brightest star to emerge from the Republican ranks in the last several elections."

According to Halperin, the 22-by-28-inch poster emerged as a serious contender for the Republican nomination because it offers a clear, consistent vision and refuses to compromise on its fundamental principles. Beltway insiders have also noted that the slogan "Liberty, not debt" on the back of the sign has solidified its appeal with the influential Tea Party bloc.

In addition, the sign has been warmly embraced by social conservatives, who are reportedly drawn to its clean image and lack of personal or political baggage. A recent Zogby poll showed that Americans who identified themselves as values voters favored the sign by a staggering 40-to-1 ratio over former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

"I like what that sign has to say," said 46-year-old Brandon LaFollette of Florence, SC, adding that while he likes the way the poster addresses all his political and economic concerns, it's also the only Republican candidate he could see himself sitting down and having a beer with. "I agree with its positions on the deficit, health care, unemployment, gas prices—everything. And it's not afraid to stand up to the president on every issue."

"Sign 2012!" he added.

Having proved its ability to rally broad segments of the political right, and having suddenly invigorated a campaign season that had been widely considered lackluster and uninspiring, the sign has prompted political pundits to anoint the glossy white placard as "the new face of the GOP" and "a modern-day Ronald Reagan."

"Unfortunately for its competitors, the sign has very few vulnerabilities," said GOP strategist Mike Murphy, who claimed the poster was poised to "coast" to the Republican nomination next August. "It communicates to voters in unambiguous, straightforward terms, it's photogenic, and it possesses a remarkable ability to stay on message."

"The fact that it set a single-day fundraising record doesn't surprise me at all," added Murphy, referring to the $40 million haul it received last Tuesday from an estimated 350,000 citizens, the National Right to Life Committee, the Altria Group, dozens of evangelical radio personalities, the National Rifle Association, the energy lobby, and Charles G. and David H. Koch.

With both moderate and hard-line conservatives lining up behind the handmade poster, Murphy said the sign should focus on the difficult task of winning over crucial independent voters. He argued that if a seasoned anti-tax bumper sticker or an American flag lapel pin were selected as its running mate, the sign could broaden its standing in swing states and pose a formidable challenge to the incumbent Obama.

As the buzz surrounding the sign continues to mount, other Republican candidates have reportedly scrambled to reframe their campaigns and capture a share of the rising voter enthusiasm.

"While the sign and I share a common vision for the future, I would hope that voters turn to a candidate with experience," former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty said. "I may not have the same gift of rhetorical flourish, and I may not be as magnetic or compelling as the poster, but this shouldn't be a popularity contest. If it were, none of us would stand a chance against the sign. We know that."

At press time, Pawlenty had dropped out of the race and was expected to make an announcement Thursday fully endorsing the sign.

This has the smell of the SEC all over it. LSU alumni are infact against the Democrats and are Anti-Alabama. No Bama?, I say Roll Tide.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 14, 2011, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X

Just so we're clear, do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You really are still wet behind the ears to this
craic, aren't ye Eamonn...its like shooting fish in a
barrel around here sometimes  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 14, 2011, 11:33:32 AM
Maybe main street is finally waking up?

Occupy Wall Street Movement is Twice as Popular as the Tea Party: Time Poll

The Occupy Wall Street movement, is more popular than the Tea Party, according to a poll released Thursday. (Justin Sullivan/Getty; Kevin Hagen for News) The demonstrations against big banks has a 54% favorability rating compared to the conservative group's 27%, according to a new Time magazine poll.

A sizable number - 23% - said they didn't know enough about the Wall St. protesters to make a decision.

In contrast, 23% said they had a negative opinion of Occupy Wall Street compared to 65% who said the Tea Party's influence has been negative or negligible.

The new numbers come as Mayor Michael Bloomberg ordered demonstrations - who have been stationed at Zuccotti Park for the past three weeks - to temporarily vacate on Friday so the area can be cleaned.

Since the protests against big banks began in cities around the country weeks ago, many pundits and commentators have drawn comparisons between the two movements.

They argue both are grassroots initiatives fueled by anti-establishment anger - the difference being that Tea Partiers focus their antipathy on the government, and the Occupiers on big banks.

The Tea Party Patriots, the nation's largest Tea Party organization, blasted the comparison earlier this week.

Tea Partiers are "not lawbreakers, they don't hate the police, they don't even litter. A quick glance at the TV reveals the sharp contrast posed by the Wall St. occupiers," the group said in a statement.

© 2011 The New York Daily News
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 15, 2011, 03:51:11 PM
QuoteWhat...go back over 4500 posts just to prove you wrong, nice try though!

By the very complex and scientific method of typing the word 'Krugman' into the difficult to locate and operate Search box and then hitting Search (still with me?) I discovered that (before the mentions above) he was quoted 5 times.

One by Declan on the Bailout thread.
One by MagicKingdom
One by Baoithe on the election here
One by Tyrone's Own
One by myself where he compares Ireland and Nevada

Now that we have some facts, back to the discussion.......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 19, 2011, 05:52:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 15, 2011, 03:51:11 PM
QuoteWhat...go back over 4500 posts just to prove you wrong, nice try though!

By the very complex and scientific method of typing the word 'Krugman' into the difficult to locate and operate Search box and then hitting Search (still with me?) I discovered that (before the mentions above) he was quoted 5 times.

One by Declan on the Bailout thread.
One by MagicKingdom
One by Baoithe on the election here
One by Tyrone's Own
One by myself where he compares Ireland and Nevada

Now that we have some facts, back to the discussion.......
Classy muppet...as only you can be ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2011, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 14, 2011, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X

Just so we're clear, do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You really are still wet behind the ears to this
craic, aren't ye Eamonn...its like shooting fish in a
barrel around here sometimes  ;D
I'm not the subject of this question. Do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 19, 2011, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2011, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 14, 2011, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X

Just so we're clear, do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You really are still wet behind the ears to this
craic, aren't ye Eamonn...its like shooting fish in a
barrel around here sometimes  ;D
I'm not the subject of this question. Do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You took the bait already you clown...you're now
reduced to biting on the bare hook :D
FYI...you've obviously a ways to go in the trolling
apprenticeship to be trying to compete here :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 19, 2011, 08:37:25 PM
TO,
whats your thoughts on the Republican debates? Romney seems to be walking away with, I have to say (expecting derision) there is a elegant simplicity about the 9-9-9 plan. While like the fact that 84% of people would pay more tax, but so would corporations and he could actually (god forbid) balance a budget, not sure how popular that would be...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 19, 2011, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2011, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 14, 2011, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X

Just so we're clear, do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You really are still wet behind the ears to this
craic, aren't ye Eamonn...its like shooting fish in a
barrel around here sometimes  ;D
I'm not the subject of this question. Do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You took the bait already you clown...you're now
reduced to biting on the bare hook :D
FYI...you've obviously a ways to go in the trolling
apprenticeship to be trying to compete here :-*

Translation: "I don't want to answer the awkward question so I'm just going to be a complete and utter dick about it."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 20, 2011, 04:34:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 19, 2011, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2011, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 14, 2011, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X

Just so we're clear, do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You really are still wet behind the ears to this
craic, aren't ye Eamonn...its like shooting fish in a
barrel around here sometimes  ;D
I'm not the subject of this question. Do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You took the bait already you clown...you're now
reduced to biting on the bare hook :D
FYI...you've obviously a ways to go in the trolling
apprenticeship to be trying to compete here :-*

Translation: "I don't want to answer the awkward question so I'm just going to be a complete and utter dick about it."
*shakes head...how can it be an awkward question when
it was bait to begin with, which you swallowed
wholesale by the way...now quit while your just a bit behind
and stop embarrassing yourself!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 20, 2011, 04:54:38 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 19, 2011, 08:37:25 PM
TO,
whats your thoughts on the Republican debates? Romney seems to be walking away with, I have to say (expecting derision) there is a elegant simplicity about the 9-9-9 plan. While like the fact that 84% of people would pay more tax, but so would corporations and he could actually (god forbid) balance a budget, not sure how popular that would be...
Think I caught the first two then none since and so don't
have much to report at this point.
The 999 plan is dead on arrival...good thinking but won't fly
with the bottom 50% being expected to pay any taxes at all
amongst other obvious flaws.
The balancing of a budget would be hugely popular with the average
American but again would hardly appeal to the entitlement masses
that are growing by the day because of the hit they would inevitably take.

*edit. I see he's already reneging on one of the 9's...I think Cain
has shot his load, all down hill from here for him I think!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 20, 2011, 04:56:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 19, 2011, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2011, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 14, 2011, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
Wasn't Krugman an adviser to Enron also :-[ or am I mistaken  :-X

Just so we're clear, do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You really are still wet behind the ears to this
craic, aren't ye Eamonn...its like shooting fish in a
barrel around here sometimes  ;D
I'm not the subject of this question. Do you have a problem with anyone associated with Enron?
You took the bait already you clown...you're now
reduced to biting on the bare hook :D
FYI...you've obviously a ways to go in the trolling
apprenticeship to be trying to compete here :-*

Translation: "I don't want to answer the awkward question so I'm just going to be a complete and utter dick about it."

Eamonnca1

Never argue with a fool - he will drag you down to his level then beat you with experience!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2011, 05:01:38 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 20, 2011, 04:56:44 PM
Eamonnca1

Never argue with a fool - he will drag you down to his level then beat you with experience!!

Indeed. It's painful to watch, isn't it?  It's like talking to a brick wall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 20, 2011, 05:16:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2011, 05:01:38 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 20, 2011, 04:56:44 PM
Eamonnca1

Never argue with a fool - he will drag you down to his level then beat you with experience!!

Indeed. It's painful to watch, isn't it? It's like talking to a brick wall.

At least a brick wall maintains a solid position.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 20, 2011, 05:24:45 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/20/cant-argue-with-american-policy-now-qaddafis-dead-and-results-speak-for/

I'm not to quote fox news but I am shocked they put this up...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 20, 2011, 05:28:46 PM
No need to be hating lads...if the relay team weren't flat out trying to be
smart asses, ye wouldn't be getting the trousers pulled
down around your ankles quite as often :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2011, 05:34:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 20, 2011, 05:24:45 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/20/cant-argue-with-american-policy-now-qaddafis-dead-and-results-speak-for/

I'm not to quote fox news but I am shocked they put this up...

Has their website been hacked? I thought they were going to give GW Bush the credit for this one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Groucho on October 20, 2011, 05:35:49 PM
To quote George Hook......"Horse Manure" :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 20, 2011, 05:36:43 PM
The republicans don't have a viable candidate at this juncture, my fear is Obama will get elected again because to be honest the Republicans don't seem to have anyone with the vision and magnetism to take him on and beat him.

The republicans should tax the super rich, they dont and unless they start they wont be getting my vote in 2012.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 20, 2011, 05:58:40 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 20, 2011, 05:24:45 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/20/cant-argue-with-american-policy-now-qaddafis-dead-and-results-speak-for/

I'm not to quote fox news but I am shocked they put this up...
Fair and balanced ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 20, 2011, 06:18:33 PM
Quote from: stew on October 20, 2011, 05:36:43 PM
The republicans don't have a viable candidate at this juncture, my fear is Obama will get elected again because to be honest the Republicans don't seem to have anyone with the vision and magnetism to take him on and beat him.

The republicans should tax the super rich, they dont and unless they start they wont be getting my vote in 2012.
While I don't disagree with you entirely...if we were to take every single penny
off them let alone tax them, how long would it fund this administration's entitlement and welfare programs alone... Then what?
This is a question I've posed to many people that are in huge favor of gouging the super wealthy, to say they have trouble answering it is a bit of an understatement!
And I'm sure you realize that a non vote next year is a vote for the epic failure
in chief :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2011, 07:21:08 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 20, 2011, 06:18:33 PM
And I'm sure you realize that a non vote next year is a vote for the epic failure
in chief :-\

So GW Bush is running again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 20, 2011, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 20, 2011, 05:24:45 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/20/cant-argue-with-american-policy-now-qaddafis-dead-and-results-speak-for/

I'm not to quote fox news but I am shocked they put this up...

Well the author, Juan Williams, is Fox's pet liberal(ish).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 21, 2011, 03:43:46 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2011, 07:21:08 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 20, 2011, 06:18:33 PM
And I'm sure you realize that a non vote next year is a vote for the epic failure
in chief :-\

So GW Bush is running again?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sW65ilskOC8/SOtoxTeUQaI/AAAAAAAANwY/Lv0La-ifQR8/s400/BarrelManScrapingBottom.jpg)

Is that you Eamonn or is it Dec...hard to tell from this angle!
How embarrassing :-[

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 21, 2011, 10:37:34 AM
Citigroup Settles for $285 Million; No Wall Street Exec Jailed Yet
by Kevin G. Hall and Greg Gordon
WASHINGTON — Global banking giant Citigroup has agreed to pay $285 million to settle charges that it misled investors about a complex financial instrument tied to the now-crippled housing market, the Securities and Exchange Commission said Wednesday.

This sort of "heads I win, tails you lose" behavior by Wall Street is what prompted last year's extensive revamp of financial regulation, known as the Dodd-Frank Act, which several GOP presidential candidates vow to repeal. It's also what has driven many Americans to support the Occupy Wall Street protest movement growing in cities across the nation. The announcement was unlikely to satisfy critics of Wall Street and Washington's bailout of its banks who've waited years for any major Wall Street executive to be jailed for practices that led to the global financial meltdown in 2008, which still roils the U.S. economy.

The SEC alleged that Citigroup's main broker-dealer subsidiary duped investors who had bought portions of a $1 billion offshore deal known as a collateralized debt obligation. CDOs are bundles of bonds tied to the performance of mortgages and other loans. The deal in question was precisely the kind of engineered financial product that blew up in 2008 and nearly brought down the global financial system.

In the complaint, the SEC alleged that Citigroup Global Markets selected about $500 million worth of assets in the deal, but in marketing materials suggested to investors that Swiss bank Credit Suisse had conducted the selection.

That gave the appearance that it was an arms-length transaction. In reality, said the SEC, Citigroup's subsidiary selected the assets and then bet against the investors in the very product it was selling. Betting that a bond will default is known as shorting, or going short.

With the settlement, Citigroup joins other major banks that collectively have shelled out more than $1 billion to settle SEC enforcement cases. Investment titan Goldman Sachs last year agreed to a $550 million civil settlement. Earlier this year JPMorgan Chase also settled on similar charges, agreeing to pay more than $153 million.

This sort of "heads I win, tails you lose" behavior by Wall Street is what prompted last year's extensive revamp of financial regulation, known as the Dodd-Frank Act, which several GOP presidential candidates vow to repeal. It's also what has driven many Americans to support the Occupy Wall Street protest movement growing in cities across the nation.

"It's not called Occupy Wall Street because it's a random geographical location," said Bartlett Naylor, who heads financial policy for advocacy group Public Citizen, which wants criminal charges filed against Wall Street executives. "The details (of this case) are the face of the problem that brings Occupy Wall Street protestors to the streets. We have theft from actual people. In the end these are pension fund beneficiaries ... it's clear we know the names of the perpetrators, and yet these people are apparently not heading to jail."

In a statement on its website, Citigroup neither admitted nor denied guilt.

"We are pleased to put this matter behind us and are focused on contributing to the economic recovery, serving our clients and growing responsibly," the statement said.

Citigroup had previously reached a $75 million settlement with the SEC in July 2010 for failing to adequately disclose how much risk it carried on junk mortgages. A federal judge first rejected that settlement as too light, before agreeing later to accept it.

Prompted by allegations from Iowa Republican Sen. Charles Grassley, the SEC's inspector general began investigating whether enforcement chief Robert Khuzami, a former general counsel for Deutsche Bank, gave preferential treatment to executives in reaching that settlement. Results of that inquiry haven't been disclosed, but it apparently won't sideline Khuzami, who made Wednesday's announcement.

SEC documents released Wednesday spell out how the Citigroup transaction, known as Class V Funding III, closed on Feb. 28, 2007, and that by November about 83 percent of the assets in the complex deal had defaulted. Citigroup still walked away with staggering profits.

As part of Wednesday's settlement, Citigroup agreed to pay a $95 million penalty. It also committed to return $160 million in fees and profits and another $30 million in interest payments. Credit Suisse agreed to pay $2.5 million in penalties for its alleged role in misleading investors about who selected the assets for the deal.

Former Citigroup executive Brian Stoker, also charged with civil fraud, refused a settlement and chose to fight the SEC in civil court.



Big bucks and minimal transparency characterized the world of structured finance, where Wall Street sliced and diced $2 trillion in loans into complex securities that eventually went bust. McClatchy Newspapers reported exclusively in 2009 on how Moody's Investors Service was complicit by giving AAA ratings to junk bonds, and how Goldman Sachs secretly bet against its mortgage products while safely exiting a cresting housing market before its collapse.

During a Wednesday news conference, Khuzami read from an email sent by a veteran CDO trader that referred to the Citigroup's deal as "the best short ever." In SEC documents, this same trader refers to the deal as "dog shit."

Somehow this deal still got a gold-plated AAA rating from both Moody's and Standard & Poor's, yet neither was charged in the Citigroup case or any other one. Khuzami declined to answer questions from McClatchy about the role of ratings agencies in the deal and whether they were complicit in misleading investors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 21, 2011, 12:42:52 PM
The Republican party is a mess


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/sep/29/republican-days-wrath/

When you call someone an "enemy" enough times, when you say enough times that the person across from you doesn't have simply wrong ideas but wicked ones, how can you tolerate compromise with such a person? The conservative rhetoric factory has persuaded millions of Americans that Democrats and liberals are evil, that the poor are lazy, that government is incapable of any good, and that the press, television, and Internet are in on the conspiracy to make sure they all triumph at the expense of everyone else.

After the economic crisis of 2008, those millions, primed by all those years of dyspeptic expression, rose up in fury. The reach and impact of their rhetoric placed certain conditions on Republican politicians: that they not support anything that even hinted that the government would intervene in their lives, and of course that they oppose the Kenyan-Muslim-terrorist-pal President above all else. As a survey by Robert Putnam and David Campbell recently concluded, the Republicans who became "Tea Partiers" are not only "overwhelmingly white," but they "had a low regard for immigrants and blacks long before Barack Obama was president, and they still do." Policy and ideas mattered a little, but not very much. Rhetoric determined the collective Republican position.

Proof of this could be found most obviously in the fact of the individual mandate to buy health insurance, a centerpiece of the Obama health bill whose constitutional validity the Supreme Court will probably weigh next term. The proposal for an individual mandate came in no small part from, of all places, the conservative Heritage Foundation in the 1990s. The Heritage conservatives argued that each family should be required to take responsibility for its health care and not depend on handouts. A party more interested in ideas might have claimed victory in seeing a Democratic president come around to its way of thinking; it might then have worked with the administration to arrive at a bill that included still more of its ideas, to which Obama would no doubt have been amenable. But the rhetoric prevented that. The base insisted that compromise was treason, and the party establishment agreed.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 22, 2011, 02:59:08 PM
Quote
When you call someone an "enemy" enough times, when you say enough times that the person across from you doesn't have simply wrong ideas but wicked ones, how can you tolerate compromise with such a person?
Tea party anyone?
Quotethe Republicans who became "Tea Partiers" are not only "overwhelmingly white," but they "had a low regard for immigrants and blacks long before Barack Obama was president, and they still do."
Utter horse shite... can you back that up or are you simply tarring all of them with the actions of a select few ::)
Funny there's no mention here of the racism coming out of the Wall street occupiers, but then it's only racism
when it's evil whitey keeping the black man down...Jews don't seem to count with Liberals.

Furthermore, care to give your thoughts on the comparisons on the numbers of those arrested between both
Tea party goers and those in Zuccotti park who judging by the videos coming out of it wouldn't know a days work if it fell on them  ::)
But then again, it is an article from the Guardian after all!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2011, 04:44:52 PM
There you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on October 22, 2011, 09:43:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2011, 04:44:52 PM
There you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI)

Can you imagine how they'd react to the Irish Presidential election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 22, 2011, 10:04:24 PM
TO, do you read what you write?

You lambast a poster for tarring all Tea Partiers with the one brush and then, hardly a breath taken, you wallop into the Zucotti Park crew as looking like they've never done a day's work.

And since when has the relative number arrested ever been absolutely indicative of the merits of a side's cause?  I'm thinking civil rights movements and internment here. 

Heck, in my book, the number arrested is often a sure sign that a cause is right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 23, 2011, 04:45:09 PM


(http://biggovernment.com/files/2011/08/Screen-shot-2011-08-03-at-12.59.18-PM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mannix on October 23, 2011, 06:04:44 PM
I think tyrone own needs to visit Texas or some other southern states to see some of the open racism on show. Or maybe visit NYC and ask a few black people about being pulled over for no reason and searched, just because they are black.
His eyes are firmly closed.
Fdny would not hire a Latino or black, even though the government told them they were breaking national laws. White or nothing. And they are untouchable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 23, 2011, 06:44:27 PM
I've been to both, but why stop there, there is racism the world over and
it doesn't stop at evil whitey...its never the other way round...right?
The topic was the tea party here though, was it not? Could it be that
racism is unsubstantiated and blown completely out of proportion within the tea pay as a group hence the reason to move swiftly along to the police and fdny :-\

Where was the outrage with the disabled black fella being brutalized by SEIU union member thugs last year for simply holding a"don't thread on me flag"
Anytime Jessie Jackson opens his mouth for instance.
Could it be that racism worth highlighting exists only within conservative groups
and the republican party ???

Maybe you should hop on to youtube and educate yourself about racism within
the democratic party through out the last century and not simply go off what you'll learn from the mid stream media! #justsaying
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2011, 07:41:48 PM
The true charge of racism within parts of the historical Democratic party would hold more water where it not for the fact that the racists deserted the party and switched to the Republicans after the civil rights legislation and Nixon's southern strategy to exploit the divide. Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms are only two of the more well known examples of the old segregationists who made that move. The Republicans were welcome to them. A shameful part of the Democratic Party history.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 23, 2011, 08:08:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2011, 07:41:48 PM
The true charge of racism within parts of the historical Democratic party would hold more water where it not for the fact that the racists deserted the party and switched to the Republicans after the civil rights legislation and Nixon's southern strategy to exploit the divide. Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms are only two of the more well known examples of the old segregationists who made that move. The Republicans were welcome to them. A shameful part of the Democratic Party history.
And how about the KKK's own Robert Byrd, did he make that move also?
Or where the Democrats happy enough and welcome to him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2011, 08:31:25 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 23, 2011, 08:08:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2011, 07:41:48 PM
The true charge of racism within parts of the historical Democratic party would hold more water where it not for the fact that the racists deserted the party and switched to the Republicans after the civil rights legislation and Nixon's southern strategy to exploit the divide. Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms are only two of the more well known examples of the old segregationists who made that move. The Republicans were welcome to them. A shameful part of the Democratic Party history.
And how about the KKK's own Robert Byrd, did he make that move also?
Or where the Democrats happy enough and welcome to him?

That's true of course. Doesn't change the fact, however, that the Democrats lost the south over civil rights, as Johnson predicted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 23, 2011, 09:18:53 PM
QuoteThe true charge of racism within parts of the historical Democratic party would hold more water where it not for the fact that the racists deserted the party and switched to the Republicans after the civil rights legislation and Nixon's southern strategy to exploit the divide. Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms are only two of the more well known examples of the old segregationists who made that move. The Republicans were welcome to them. A shameful part of the Democratic Party history.
It's also true then that it blows your argument in bold above right out of the water let alone hold more of it!
Point being of course hard as it is to read, this supposed racism that's only alive and well amongst the conservative groups
is for the most part unsubstantiated not to mention hypocritical in spectacular form  :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2011, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 23, 2011, 09:18:53 PM
QuoteThe true charge of racism within parts of the historical Democratic party would hold more water where it not for the fact that the racists deserted the party and switched to the Republicans after the civil rights legislation and Nixon's southern strategy to exploit the divide. Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms are only two of the more well known examples of the old segregationists who made that move. The Republicans were welcome to them. A shameful part of the Democratic Party history.
It's also true then that it blows your argument in bold above right out of the water let alone hold more of it!
Point being of course hard as it is to read, this supposed racism that's only alive and well amongst the conservative groups
is for the most part unsubstantiated not to mention hypocritical in spectacular form  :-X

No, it doesn't actually. Of course, if you want to deny that there was ever a Nixon "southern strategy" or argue that the south did not in fact turn Republican in the aftermath of civil rights, knock yourself out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 23, 2011, 09:43:46 PM
Really?
Quotethe fact that the racists deserted the party and switched to the Republicans
Please explain what it is about the above I have wrong ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2011, 10:08:51 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 23, 2011, 09:43:46 PM
Really?
Quotethe fact that the racists deserted the party and switched to the Republicans
Please explain what it is about the above I have wrong ::)

Did the Republicans take over the electorate in the south, the home of segregation and institutionalized racism, for the first time in 100 years after the civil rights legislation or did they not? Did two different chairmen of the RNC in recent years disavow the use of race as a wedge issue by the Republicans in the south or not?

Yes, obviously not every single individual person motivated by race moved the Republican party, but the reset in southern politics as a result of the civil rights legislation and their effects and the Republican party's move to take advantage of it is undeniable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 24, 2011, 07:09:02 PM
QuoteDid the Republicans take over the electorate in the south, the home of segregation and institutionalized racism, for the first time in 100 years after the civil rights legislation or did they not ? Did two different chairmen of the RNC in recent years disavow the use of race as a wedge issue by the Republicans in the south or not ? 
Yes and yes though what that has to do with strengthening your case for the Tea Party being racist is very strange to say the least
QuoteYes, obviously not every single individual person motivated by race moved the Republican party,
Just a quick refresher for you;
"the fact that the racists deserted the party and switched to the Republicans"

You see this is a clear example of the spectacular, hateful indoctrination
and fabricated facts that the left level at conservatism on a daily basis
....throw enough shite and some of it is bound to stick, so to speak.
you should be ashamed of what you're throwing out
there as facts in an effort to shore up the socialist agenda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 24, 2011, 07:40:07 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 24, 2011, 07:09:02 PM

You see this is a clear example of the spectacular, hateful indoctrination
and fabricated facts that the left level at conservatism on a daily basis
....throw enough shite and some of it is bound to stick, so to speak.
you should be ashamed of what you're throwing out
there as facts in an effort to shore up the socialist agenda.

ROFL- TO, you've some set of swingers on you. Laughing my ass off...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 24, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
Blame whoever you want but the right v mad right divide in the States seems to be heading towards making the place ungovernable. It seems particularly venomous when there is a Democrat in the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2011, 07:45:46 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 24, 2011, 07:09:02 PM
QuoteDid the Republicans take over the electorate in the south, the home of segregation and institutionalized racism, for the first time in 100 years after the civil rights legislation or did they not ? Did two different chairmen of the RNC in recent years disavow the use of race as a wedge issue by the Republicans in the south or not ? 
Yes and yes though what that has to do with strengthening your case for the Tea Party being racist is very strange to say the least


For someone who lambasts other people for using strawman arguments, you're (once again) no slouch at using them yourself.

Why don't you go and show where and when I said the tea party was racist. Go ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2011, 08:49:46 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 24, 2011, 07:09:02 PM

QuoteYes, obviously not every single individual person motivated by race moved the Republican party,
Just a quick refresher for you;
"the fact that the racists deserted the party and switched to the Republicans"

You see this is a clear example of the spectacular, hateful indoctrination
and fabricated facts that the left level at conservatism on a daily basis
....throw enough shite and some of it is bound to stick, so to speak.
you should be ashamed of what you're throwing out
there as facts in an effort to shore up the socialist agenda.

"Socialist agenda"??? Where the f**k have I mentioned anything to do with socialism? Christ you seem to see everything through the fog of talk radio and right wing talking points!

My comments were in response to your telling someone to brush up on the history of racism in the Democratic party. Fair comment, but its also very fair and pertinent to point out that when it comes to accommodating racists and using race as a wedge issue, the Republicans, whether for political reasons or ideological, have a more recent history than the Democrats.

So no, I am not ashamed of anything I said and stand by it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2011, 09:25:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
Blame whoever you want but the right v mad right divide in the States seems to be heading towards making the place ungovernable. It seems particularly venomous when there is a Democrat in the White House.

When there's a Democrat in the White House and Republicans control Congress they say that that the President should do whatever Congress says and to do otherwise is to "ignore the will of the American People." 

When it's a Republican President who refuses to do what a Democratic Congress wants then the Democrats are supposed to suck it up.

And when the White House and Congress are both controlled by Democrats then they're supposed to do what Fox News opinion polls say.

To summarise, the far right in America are a bit like the unionists in Northern Ireland. They only recognise the authority of the majority when they themselves are in the majority, and any time 'themuns' take control fair and square they complain about the system being "undemocratic".

To summarise the summary, the right has a hard time understanding what democracy actually is whenever they're beaten.

To summarise the summary of the summary, they're full of shite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: redandblack4ever on October 24, 2011, 09:34:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2011, 09:25:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
Blame whoever you want but the right v mad right divide in the States seems to be heading towards making the place ungovernable. It seems particularly venomous when there is a Democrat in the White House.

When there's a Democrat in the White House and Republicans control Congress they say that that the President should do whatever Congress says and to do otherwise is to "ignore the will of the American People." 

When it's a Republican President who refuses to do what a Democratic Congress wants then the Democrats are supposed to suck it up.

And when the White House and Congress are both controlled by Democrats then they're supposed to do what Fox News opinion polls say.

To summarise, the far right in America are a bit like the unionists in Northern Ireland. They only recognise the authority of the majority when they themselves are in the majority, and any time 'themuns' take control fair and square they complain about the system being "undemocratic".

To summarise the summary, the right has a hard time understanding what democracy actually is whenever they're beaten.

To summarise the summary of the summary, they're full of shite.

Nail meet hammer. Couldn't have said it better myself...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 03:36:47 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
Blame whoever you want but the right v mad right divide in the States seems to be heading towards making the place ungovernable.
That's funny....the fact is, this country was never as divided since
the great Democratic uniter ::) took office !
QuoteIt seems particularly venomous when there is a Democrat in the White House.
:D venomous speech was alive and well years before the anointed one took office, wise up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 04:23:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2011, 07:45:46 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 24, 2011, 07:09:02 PM
QuoteDid the Republicans take over the electorate in the south, the home of segregation and institutionalized racism, for the first time in 100 years after the civil rights legislation or did they not ? Did two different chairmen of the RNC in recent years disavow the use of race as a wedge issue by the Republicans in the south or not ? 
Yes and yes though what that has to do with strengthening your case for the Tea Party being racist is very strange to say the least


For someone who lambasts other people for using strawman arguments, you're (once again) no slouch at using them yourself.

Why don't you go and show where and when I said the tea party was racist. Go ahead.
I can't but its not like its not the chosen hymn in the lefts choir book these past 3 yrs. And so with that said... Why not get it out in the open then,
Do you believe that the Tea party as a group deserves what has been leveled
at it from the left in terms of racism?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 04:40:04 AM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on October 24, 2011, 09:34:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2011, 09:25:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
Blame whoever you want but the right v mad right divide in the States seems to be heading towards making the place ungovernable. It seems particularly venomous when there is a Democrat in the White House.

When there's a Democrat in the White House and Republicans control Congress they say that that the President should do whatever Congress says and to do otherwise is to "ignore the will of the American People." 

When it's a Republican President who refuses to do what a Democratic Congress wants then the Democrats are supposed to suck it up.

And when the White House and Congress are both controlled by Democrats then they're supposed to do what Fox News opinion polls say.

To summarise, the far right in America are a bit like the unionists in Northern Ireland. They only recognise the authority of the majority when they themselves are in the majority, and any time 'themuns' take control fair and square they complain about the system being "undemocratic".

To summarise the summary, the right has a hard time understanding what democracy actually is whenever they're beaten.

To summarise the summary of the summary, they're full of shite.

Nail meet hammer. Couldn't have said it better myself...
Of course not...first it was your da then any and all liberal outlets and or latching on to someone elses coat tails for your indoctrination, lord knows anything but have a thought for yourself :-X
But hey fair play to you Eamonn drawing herself out with such an immature simplistic view, as wide of the mark as it is... its about her speed ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2011, 05:57:20 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 03:36:47 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
Blame whoever you want but the right v mad right divide in the States seems to be heading towards making the place ungovernable.
That's funny....the fact is, this country was never as divided since
the great Democratic uniter ::) took office !
QuoteIt seems particularly venomous when there is a Democrat in the White House.
:D venomous speech was alive and well years before the anointed one took office, wise up!

Yes it was, the last time there was a Democrat in the White House the Republicans impeached him. If this guy gets a second term God knows what they will do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2011, 10:30:27 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 04:23:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2011, 07:45:46 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 24, 2011, 07:09:02 PM
QuoteDid the Republicans take over the electorate in the south, the home of segregation and institutionalized racism, for the first time in 100 years after the civil rights legislation or did they not ? Did two different chairmen of the RNC in recent years disavow the use of race as a wedge issue by the Republicans in the south or not ? 
Yes and yes though what that has to do with strengthening your case for the Tea Party being racist is very strange to say the least


For someone who lambasts other people for using strawman arguments, you're (once again) no slouch at using them yourself.

Why don't you go and show where and when I said the tea party was racist. Go ahead.
I can't but its not like its not the chosen hymn in the lefts choir book these past 3 yrs. And so with that said... Why not get it out in the open then,
Do you believe that the Tea party as a group deserves what has been leveled
at it from the left in terms of racism?

Well maybe its about time you grew a brain and stop assuming every single person falls into your neat little talk radio or whatever-informed stereotype and address what people say and not what you assume.

As for whether or not the whole tea party as a group is racist, no, I don't think that.

See, its not that difficult to answer a question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2011, 11:39:43 AM
I feel sorry for all the people who vote Tea Party and think they'll be taken care of. 
The Republican elite wants to destroy the government safety net that keeps tens of millions of people from destitution. Look at Paul Ryan's budget plan

Slash spending. No tax rises.

WTF is that?

And Rick Perry's jobs plan. $2 above minimum wage is good enough. No it isn't.

I also  doubt that MikeSheehy and Tyrone's own are plutocrats who benefit from the Bush tax cuts.   


 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2011, 02:15:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 25, 2011, 11:39:43 AM
I feel sorry for all the people who vote Tea Party and think they'll be taken care of. 
The Republican elite wants to destroy the government safety net that keeps tens of millions of people from destitution. Look at Paul Ryan's budget plan

Slash spending. No tax rises.

WTF is that?

And Rick Perry's jobs plan. $2 above minimum wage is good enough. No it isn't.

I also  doubt that MikeSheehy and Tyrone's own are plutocrats who benefit from the Bush tax cuts.   




You have to take your hat off to the Republicans though. They get people with nothing to vote to protect the wealth of multi-millionaires.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2011, 02:37:13 PM
58% of all income growth in the US between the 1976 and 2007 went to the top 1% of the population. The top 0.01% or 15000 households had 1.7% of all income in 1976 and 6.04% by 2007. By 2004 the top 1% of wealth holders in the US held 42% of all financial and real assets, the most unequal distribution since the 1920s. The top 20% held 93% of such assets

the vast majority of Tea Party voters are outside the top 20%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 25, 2011, 04:10:37 PM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on October 24, 2011, 09:34:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2011, 09:25:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
Blame whoever you want but the right v mad right divide in the States seems to be heading towards making the place ungovernable. It seems particularly venomous when there is a Democrat in the White House.

When there's a Democrat in the White House and Republicans control Congress they say that that the President should do whatever Congress says and to do otherwise is to "ignore the will of the American People." 

When it's a Republican President who refuses to do what a Democratic Congress wants then the Democrats are supposed to suck it up.

And when the White House and Congress are both controlled by Democrats then they're supposed to do what Fox News opinion polls say.

To summarise, the far right in America are a bit like the unionists in Northern Ireland. They only recognise the authority of the majority when they themselves are in the majority, and any time 'themuns' take control fair and square they complain about the system being "undemocratic".

To summarise the summary, the right has a hard time understanding what democracy actually is whenever they're beaten.

To summarise the summary of the summary, they're full of shite.

Nail meet hammer. Couldn't have said it better myself...

Ah the great democrat speaks! :D :D :D

I have news for you numpties, each side is as bad as the other, pelosi is every bit as bad as the extreme right wingers, a horrible bastard if ever there was one and the democrats act every bit as badly as the republicans when there is a republican in office.

The democrats in Wisconsin actually ran off like rats leaving a sinking ship after Scott walker got elected Govenor of the State, they lived in Illinois to stop the democratic process and they were brought to heel in the end under threat of jail time.

I hate it when democrats run this State, I hate it when the liberal Doyle was Govenor and he spends millions fixing up Lombardi Avenue, which just happens to be the main thoroughfare for Lambeau Field, yet in the same week he cut funding for children with learning disabilities, the sad thing was Lombardi did not need fixing up, it was fine the way it was. Thats just one example.

Obama has the country in debt never before seen in the history of the world, the unions in this country are ran by gangsters and the left stands for nothing at all except courting the rights of illegal aliens and keeping the poor that have no interest in working in food stamps and unemployment money, in short they make me sick and I hop

e to feck a moderate republican gets elected, the problem is I dont see a viable contender among the field to date.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2011, 04:34:15 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2011, 04:10:37 PM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on October 24, 2011, 09:34:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2011, 09:25:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
Blame whoever you want but the right v mad right divide in the States seems to be heading towards making the place ungovernable. It seems particularly venomous when there is a Democrat in the White House.

When there's a Democrat in the White House and Republicans control Congress they say that that the President should do whatever Congress says and to do otherwise is to "ignore the will of the American People." 

When it's a Republican President who refuses to do what a Democratic Congress wants then the Democrats are supposed to suck it up.

And when the White House and Congress are both controlled by Democrats then they're supposed to do what Fox News opinion polls say.

To summarise, the far right in America are a bit like the unionists in Northern Ireland. They only recognise the authority of the majority when they themselves are in the majority, and any time 'themuns' take control fair and square they complain about the system being "undemocratic".

To summarise the summary, the right has a hard time understanding what democracy actually is whenever they're beaten.

To summarise the summary of the summary, they're full of shite.

Nail meet hammer. Couldn't have said it better myself...

Ah the great democrat speaks! :D :D :D

I have news for you numpties, each side is as bad as the other, pelosi is every bit as bad as the extreme right wingers, a horrible b**tard if ever there was one and the democrats act every bit as badly as the republicans when there is a republican in office.

The democrats in Wisconsin actually ran off like rats leaving a sinking ship after Scott walker got elected Govenor of the State, they lived in Illinois to stop the democratic process and they were brought to heel in the end under threat of jail time.

I hate it when democrats run this State, I hate it when the liberal Doyle was Govenor and he spends millions fixing up Lombardi Avenue, which just happens to be the main thoroughfare for Lambeau Field, yet in the same week he cut funding for children with learning disabilities, the sad thing was Lombardi did not need fixing up, it was fine the way it was. Thats just one example.

Obama has the country in debt never before seen in the history of the world, the unions in this country are ran by gangsters and the left stands for nothing at all except courting the rights of illegal aliens and keeping the poor that have no interest in working in food stamps and unemployment money, in short they make me sick and I hop

e to feck a moderate republican gets elected, the problem is I dont see a viable contender among the field to date.

Debt to GDP was way higher post ww2, Stew. After WW2 the US had a jobs plan. It put veterans back in college and developed industry. it didn't destroy social welfare. It didn't follow austerity for the benefit of the richest 1%. 

The FT reported on a field hospital that was set up in Los Angeles at the weekend for people with no health insurance.
In the richest country in the world. It's a mess .
 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 25, 2011, 05:38:42 PM
This is the new ad from Herman Cain, Republican presidential hopeful:

http://youtu.be/qhm-22Q0PuM

And no, its not a piss take
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 25, 2011, 11:39:43 AM
I feel sorry for all the people who vote Tea Party and think they'll be taken care of. 
The Republican elite wants to destroy the government safety net that keeps tens of millions of people from destitution. Look at Paul Ryan's budget plan

Slash spending. No tax rises.

WTF is that?

And Rick Perry's jobs plan. $2 above minimum wage is good enough. No it isn't.

I also  doubt that MikeSheehy and Tyrone's own are plutocrats who benefit from the Bush tax cuts.   



:D if you'd take your head out of your hole for even a second you'd realize that the Democrats with their so called safety net have done more to aid in the destitution of the minorities in this Country under the guise of helping them than the Republicans ever could have.
Keep them down but give them just enough ensuring the vote

....problem for your lot of course is that a large proportion of minorities
are beginning to take a look around themselved and cop on to the game!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2011, 05:42:20 PM
Tyrone's Own, please ignore the Democrats for a minute and please tell us why Republican policy is good for the majority of Americans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 05:55:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2011, 05:42:20 PM
Tyrone's Own, please ignore the Democrats for a minute and please tell us why Republican policy is good for the majority of Americans.
I'm not a Republican... and so definitely don't vote with what letter follows a candidates name like most seem to around here... I vote what I deem best for the Country and if you would set aside the trolling of US hating on here for a minute, you would surely have to admit that this empty suit has failed miserably in most every facet of his policy making,
and there is no doubt in my mind that with 4 more years with not having to worry about re-election, he will drive us in to the ground good and proper!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2011, 06:07:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2011, 05:42:20 PM
Tyrone's Own, please ignore the Democrats for a minute and please tell us why Republican policy is good for the majority of Americans.

You really expected him to offer an opinion that doesn't merely consist of ranting about Obama or liberals or those who disagree with him? :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:11:16 PM
J and Muppet, please ignore the Republicans for a minute,
Please tell us why or how the Democratic policies we're witnessing
are good for the majority of Americans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2011, 06:29:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:11:16 PM
J and Muppet, please ignore the Republicans for a minute,
Please tell us why or how the Democratic policies we're witnessing
are good for the majority of Americans

I'm not a Democrat.........and so on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:42:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2011, 06:29:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:11:16 PM
J and Muppet, please ignore the Republicans for a minute,
Please tell us why or how the Democratic policies we're witnessing
are good for the majority of Americans

I'm not a Democrat.........and so on.
Yep...what's that old saying of mine;
"the mind of a liberal is like the pupil of the eye...the more light you
shine on it, the more in contracts"
Surely being the eletist intellect here you can do better than that,
or is there simply no answer to it that would sit well with the choir 8)

Go on take another stab at it...why should obama be given a second term?
surely with your belief system and history of defending him, you should be able to write a thesis on the multitude of reasons  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 25, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
Quotewhy should obama be given a second term?

Because the alternatives make Dana look like an intellectual heavyweight ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:57:41 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 25, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
Quotewhy should obama be given a second term?

Because the alternatives make Dana look like an intellectual heavyweight ;)
Ah I see...still nothing 8) Great idea for a question muppet, its highlighting
perfectly what most of us already know and others can't admit ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 25, 2011, 07:00:36 PM
I'm serious TO - I've looked at some of the Republican debates and Dana is more impressive than them with the possible exception of Romney
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2011, 07:03:57 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:57:41 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 25, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
Quotewhy should obama be given a second term?

Because the alternatives make Dana look like an intellectual heavyweight ;)
Ah I see...still nothing 8) Great idea for a question muppet, its highlighting
perfectly what most of us already know and others can't admit ;D

Do you think no one noticed that you refused to answer the same question first? You aversion to history is of goldfish proportions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 07:14:55 PM
Romney is the most electable of the Republican candidates but even he makes Reagan (who raised taxes, believed in the rich paying their fair share, campaigned for and achieved a reduction in the number of nuclear weapons in the world, used a teleprompter, launched air strikes against Libya with British support) look like a modern Democrat by comparison. If Reagan were alive today he'd be branded a socialist by the Tea Party extremists and run out of town. This populist blanket aversion to any and all taxation ("read my lips, no new taxes") has turned the GOP into the party of making promises they haven't a hope in hell of keeping.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 07:14:55 PM
Romney is the most electable of the Republican candidates but even he makes Reagan (who raised taxes, believed in the rich paying their fair share, campaigned for and achieved a reduction in the number of nuclear weapons in the world, used a teleprompter, launched air strikes against Libya with British support) look like a modern Democrat by comparison. If Reagan were alive today he'd be branded a socialist by the Tea Party extremists and run out of town. This populist blanket aversion to any and all taxation ("read my lips, no new taxes")
Where did you pick this opinion piece from, Ed Schultz or Alan Combes....they've both been dragging this tripe around with them of late ::)
Regan also believed that Government should get out of the way, but I see
that didn't fit the agenda of both these talk shows  ::)
Quotehas turned the GOP into the party of making promises they haven't a hope in hell of keeping.
You lads would know all about a party making promises it had no intentions
of keeping alright :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 08:24:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2011, 07:03:57 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:57:41 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 25, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
Quotewhy should obama be given a second term?

Because the alternatives make Dana look like an intellectual heavyweight ;)
Ah I see...still nothing 8) Great idea for a question muppet, its highlighting
perfectly what most of us already know and others can't admit ;D

Do you think no one noticed that you refused to answer the same question first?
OK...they have been two peas in the same pod for a long long time hence the reason I registered as an Independent but there are changes afoot,
changes with the pressure of conservative thinking of getting back to basics, Smaller Government, less government intrusion into our everyday lives, a new direction that I would tend to be more aligned with compared to the Marxist actions that we've witnessed with this administration!
Your turn............
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2011, 08:29:28 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:42:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2011, 06:29:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:11:16 PM
J and Muppet, please ignore the Republicans for a minute,
Please tell us why or how the Democratic policies we're witnessing
are good for the majority of Americans

I'm not a Democrat.........and so on.
Yep...what's that old saying of mine;
"the mind of a liberal is like the pupil of the eye...the more light you
shine on it, the more in contracts"
Surely being the eletist intellect here you can do better than that,
or is there simply no answer to it that would sit well with the choir 8)

Go on take another stab at it...why should obama be given a second term?
surely with your belief system and history of defending him, you should be able to write a thesis on the multitude of reasons  ;)

Keep them coming. Is liberal some kind of insult over there ? You could call someone a
Home Run Betty Crocker and would mean as much to the GAA fraternity as a liberal.
Most GAA fans are socialist anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2011, 08:43:07 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 08:24:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2011, 07:03:57 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:57:41 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 25, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
Quotewhy should obama be given a second term?

Because the alternatives make Dana look like an intellectual heavyweight ;)
Ah I see...still nothing 8) Great idea for a question muppet, its highlighting
perfectly what most of us already know and others can't admit ;D

Do you think no one noticed that you refused to answer the same question first?
OK...they have been two peas in the same pod for a long long time hence the reason I registered as an Independent but there are changes afoot,
changes with the pressure of conservative thinking of getting back to basics, Smaller Government, less government intrusion into our everyday lives, a new direction that I would tend to be more aligned with compared to the Marxist actions that we've witnessed with this administration!
Your turn............

Smaller Government, less government intrusion into our everyday lives

When you get up tomorrow you won't be at war with an Arab nation, that attacked your country and yet the evil dictator will be dead. American lives, that is ordinary American lives, will not be lost. This is despite a massive (big) Government spend on military hardware.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Buswhacker on October 25, 2011, 08:56:08 PM
Not so long ago since Obama and Blair were toadying up to Gaddaffi.News reports and photos of Blair and Gaddaffi in meetings.Two faced hypocritical w.....s like all politicians.They supply these lunatics with weapons of destruction and then condemn them when they are used to commit genocide.
America and U.K the ugly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 08:58:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2011, 08:43:07 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 08:24:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2011, 07:03:57 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:57:41 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 25, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
Quotewhy should obama be given a second term?

Because the alternatives make Dana look like an intellectual heavyweight ;)
Ah I see...still nothing 8) Great idea for a question muppet, its highlighting
perfectly what most of us already know and others can't admit ;D

Do you think no one noticed that you refused to answer the same question first?
OK...they have been two peas in the same pod for a long long time hence the reason I registered as an Independent but there are changes afoot,
changes with the pressure of conservative thinking of getting back to basics, Smaller Government, less government intrusion into our everyday lives, a new direction that I would tend to be more aligned with compared to the Marxist actions that we've witnessed with this administration!
Your turn............

Smaller Government, less government intrusion into our everyday lives

When you get up tomorrow you won't be at war with an Arab nation, that attacked your country and yet the evil dictator will be dead. American lives, that is ordinary American lives, will not be lost. This is despite a massive (big) Government spend on military hardware.
Wha.....I recognize those words but collectively I have no f**king idea
of the message, no doubt something hateful but sure try again  :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 25, 2011, 09:03:29 PM
If ever a country needed a third party option it is the US of A.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2011, 09:03:29 PM
If ever a country needed a third party option it is the US of A.
There is no doubting that!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 08:03:40 PM
Where did you pick this opinion piece from, Ed Schultz or Alan Combes

Damned if I know who Ed Schultz is but to watch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News. Why would I do that? The only Fox News I ever watch is via Jon Stewart, which is the only way anyone with at least half a brain could possibly watch it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 09:21:02 PM
Republicans. Because we have to kick government intrusion out of our everyday lives (except for in the bedroom where you'll only be allowed to stick in in whatever holes we approve of).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:27:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 08:03:40 PM
Where did you pick this opinion piece from, Ed Schultz or Alan Combes

Damned if I know who Ed Schultz is but to watch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News. Why would I do that? The only Fox News I ever watch is via Jon Stewart, which is the only way anyone with at least half a brain could possibly watch it.
Ever hear of a radio you fecking clown...and as for John Stewart, that sounds about right...explains a lot actually  :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:28:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 09:21:02 PM
Republicans. Because we have to kick government intrusion out of our everyday lives (except for in the bedroom where you'll only be allowed to stick in in whatever holes we approve of).
WTF..  :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 09:39:22 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:27:25 PM
Ever hear of a radio you fecking clown.

I listen to the radio constantly. Why do you ask?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:52:59 PM
Quotebut towatch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News.
That's why ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2011, 10:10:45 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 08:24:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2011, 07:03:57 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 06:57:41 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 25, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
Quotewhy should obama be given a second term?

Because the alternatives make Dana look like an intellectual heavyweight ;)
Ah I see...still nothing 8) Great idea for a question muppet, its highlighting
perfectly what most of us already know and others can't admit ;D

Do you think no one noticed that you refused to answer the same question first?
OK...they have been two peas in the same pod for a long long time hence the reason I registered as an Independent but there are changes afoot,
changes with the pressure of conservative thinking of getting back to basics, Smaller Government, less government intrusion into our everyday lives, a new direction that I would tend to be more aligned with compared to the Marxist actions that we've witnessed with this administration!
Your turn............

In what way is the government intruding in your life that's so bad? What government agencies do you want to get rid of?

You asked earlier why Obama deserves another term. I'm not sure he does. He's been totally ineffectual IMO. The healthcare reform is pretty basic, as compromise reform had to be, but setting the tone for what was to come, he tried to negotiate and compromise with the Republicans and wasted his time as they weren't interested, despite the basis for it being things like the individual mandate which many of them are on the record as having favoured in the recent past (your Heritage Foundation buddies too). I do feel sorry for him as no matter who went into office was on a hiding to nothing given the scale and underlying causes of the economic crisis and the fact that he has to deal with a Republican House who are interested in nothing except not enabling him to have any success, no matter what's in it for them. It is amazing however how Obama's severely criticized on the left for his administration's close ties to Wall St and on the right for being an anti-business communist!

But whatever, its clear that nothing is going to get done with him in office and the tea party in control of the house and maybe, god help us all, the senate. Maybe better in the long run that they get their own president and so the country gets their fill of them more quickly. We'll see how much everyone likes it when the policies and programs that affect THEIR lives are changed. Government programs don't always benefit someone else at your cost and the free market is not the answer to everything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2011, 10:17:36 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:27:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 08:03:40 PM
Where did you pick this opinion piece from, Ed Schultz or Alan Combes

Damned if I know who Ed Schultz is but to watch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News. Why would I do that? The only Fox News I ever watch is via Jon Stewart, which is the only way anyone with at least half a brain could possibly watch it.
Ever hear of a radio you fecking clown...and as for John Stewart, that sounds about right...explains a lot actually  :-[

All Jon Stewart does is ridicule by pointing out their hypocrisy and inconsistencies. Why is that objectionable?

He had Ron Paul a couple of weeks back for christ sakes and often points out how Paul is ignored and dismissed in the Republican race. By your own words above you , above all people here, should appreciate that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2011, 10:21:39 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2011, 09:03:29 PM
If ever a country needed a third party option it is the US of A.
There is no doubting that!

Indeed!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 10:22:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:52:59 PM
Quotebut towatch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News.
That's why ::)

Anybody know what this clown is on about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 10:25:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 10:22:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:52:59 PM
Quotebut towatch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News.
That's why ::)

Anybody know what this clown is on about?
Now now...no cheating lads, he'll figure it out eventually  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 25, 2011, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 10:22:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:52:59 PM
Quotebut towatch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News.
That's why ::)

Anybody know what this clown is on about?
apparently everybody but you Eamonn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2011, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 10:22:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:52:59 PM
Quotebut towatch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News.
That's why ::)

Anybody know what this clown is on about?
apparently everybody but you Eamonn.

"Everybody" is quite capable of speaking for themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 25, 2011, 10:49:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2011, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 10:22:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:52:59 PM
Quotebut towatch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News.
That's why ::)

Anybody know what this clown is on about?
apparently everybody but you Eamonn.

"Everybody" is quite capable of speaking for themselves.

touchy.............................. if you want to know what he was going on about I suggest you sleep on it, better still, ask for clarification from either him or me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 10:54:53 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2011, 10:49:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2011, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 10:22:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 25, 2011, 09:52:59 PM
Quotebut towatch Colmes I'd have to tune into Fox News.
That's why ::)

Anybody know what this clown is on about?
apparently everybody but you Eamonn.

"Everybody" is quite capable of speaking for themselves.

touchy.............................. if you want to know what he was going on about I suggest you sleep on it, better still, ask for clarification from either him or me.
And yet it's us that are supposed to be dumb  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2011, 11:53:00 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2011, 10:49:44 PM
if you want to know what he was going on about I suggest you sleep on it, better still, ask for clarification from either him or me.

I already did. I asked "Anybody know what this clown is on about?" You and TO are included in "Anybody". You were quite free to answer my question and clarify it at any time. But of course you knew that anyway, didn't you, you obtuse little twerp? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mannix on October 26, 2011, 01:07:53 AM
Primary school level arguments, 100 lines for everyone if it does not stop this instant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 26, 2011, 01:24:57 AM
Quote from: mannix on October 26, 2011, 01:07:53 AM
Primary school level arguments, 100 lines for everyone if it does not stop this instant.
I'll follow them in to a rat hole mannix if that's what it takes  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 26, 2011, 03:33:10 AM
 :D Jaysus they're scraping the barrel now for something anything to laud him for

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/25/BA0F1LMB17.DTL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 26, 2011, 03:26:16 PM
Interesting piece:
The Tea Party vs. Occupy Wall Street
Finally, a truly populist uprising
by David Morris
Host David Gregory complained about Occupy Wall Street protestors "demonizing banks" and wondered, "Is this not a reverse tea party tactic?"

Gregory is right. In many respects Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is indeed a mirror image of the Tea Party. To the Tea Party government is the enemy. To OWS the huge corporation is the enemy. OWS wants to raise taxes on billionaires. The Tea Party wants to considerably reduce them. OWS wants to rebuild and strengthen the safety net. The Tea Party wants to weaken it.

Both OWS and the Tea Party are mass movements but their attitude toward the masses couldn't be more different. OWS and the other #Occupy protests lack leaders and a formal platform, but their demands clearly emerge from the thousands of individual grievances expressed in homemade signs and letters. Mike Konczal at Rortybomb.org did a statistical analysis of 1000 personal statements posted at We are the 99% TUMBLR and found them far less ideological than practical. Their demands effectively boil down to these. "(F)ree us from the bondage of our debts and give us a basic ability to survive."

From his analysis, Konczal sees the outlines of a program, "Upon reflection, it is very obvious where the problems are. There's no universal health care to handle the randomness of poor health. There's no free higher education to allow people to develop their skills outside the logic and relations of indentured servitude. Our bankruptcy code has been rewritten by the top 1% when instead, it needs to be a defense against their need to shove inequality-driven debt at populations. And finally, there's no basic income guaranteed to each citizen to keep poverty and poor circumstances at bay."

As one would expect, given its longevity and political impact, the Tea Party does have leaders and a relatively clear program. Probably the best expression of that program occurred when Houston-based attorney Ryan Hecker created a website and invited people to propose ideas for a platform patterned on the Contract for America the Republicans effectively used in 1994 to gain control of the House of Representatives. Some 1,000 ideas were submitted. Ultimately 450,000 people voted online for the final 10 that became the Contract from America.

All parts of this new Contract are intended to shrink government. "Identify the constitutionality of every new law." "Audit federal agencies for constitutionality." Demand a federal balanced budget amendment. Reduce taxes.

Starkly absent is any mention of the dangers associated with concentrated private wealth and power.

Faux Populism vs. True Populism

Both OWS and the Tea Party might be described as populist but their definitions of populism wildly diverge. That divergence has been clear from their founding. Occupy Wall Street began on September 7, 2011 with hundreds converging on Wall Street. The Tea Party began on February 19, 2009 with a rant from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. CNBC Business News editor Rick Santelli loudly condemned the government's plan to help people stay in their homes. "(D)o we really want to subsidize the losers' mortgages"? he asked. Santelli suggested holding a tea party for traders to dump derivatives into the Chicago River. Floor traders around him cheered his proposal. The video went viral after the Drudge Report publicized it. Within days, Fox News was discussing the appearance of a new "Tea Party". A week later coordinated protests under the Tea Party banner took place in over 40 cities.

Santelli's insistence that those who lose their homes are "losers" who have only themselves to blame is a sentiment widely shared among Tea Party Republicans and most recently expressed by Republican Presidential candidate front runner Herman Cain. When asked about Wall Street protestors Cain, former CEO of Godfather's Pizza declared, "Don't blame Wall Street. Don't blame the big banks. If you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself."

During a recent CNN televised Republican presidential debate held in front of a Tea Party audience, the moderator asked Representative Ron Paul what he would do if a healthy 30 year old man decided not to buy health insurance and then had an injury or disease that required hospitalization and surgery. Who would pay for that? Ron Paul said the man was responsible for his actions. He had taken a risk and would have to suffer the consequences. The moderator asked, "Should society just let him die?". While the Congressman pondered the question, audience members vocally expressed their approval.

This lack of empathy for what OWS would call the 99% is palpable wherever Tea Party Republicans come to power,

In Michigan conservative Republicans gained control last November. The state is home to nearly 2 million people, about 20 percent of the state's population, who depend on food stamps. Until last month, eligibility was based on income. But this year, even while the state remains mired in the worst recession since the 1930s the Republicans made it much more difficult to qualify for food assistance. Eligibility is now based on assets. Those with assets of more than $5,000 in the bank or who own a vehicle worth more than $15,000 will no longer be eligible.

For Michigan Republicans it is not enough to be poor and needy to qualify for food assistance. You must be destitute.

In the Tea Party era, policy makers in three dozen states have proposed drug testing for people receiving benefits like welfare, unemployment assistance, job training and food stamps.

In 2011, Florida succeeded in passing legislation requiring the drug testing of welfare applicants at the urging of its Governor Rick Scott, who rode to office on a wave of Tea Party support. The roughly 113,000 Florida welfare recipients must pay for their own drug test. People who fail the test become ineligible for a year. A second failed test makes them ineligible for three years. The Economist magazine's headlines conveyed the elation Tea Party members must have felt with their legislative victory. Drug testing in Florida: their tea-cup runneth over.

Despite Governor Scott's rhetoric, the poor are not drug addicts. Only about 2 percent of Florida's welfare applicants are failing the test, according to Florida's Department of Children and Families. After adding up the savings derived from not paying welfare to this 2 percent and subtracting the cost of testing 100 percent of the applicants the Tampa Tribune concluded that Florida may save "up to $40,800 to $60,000 for a program that state analysts have predicted will cost $178 million this fiscal year.

But in Florida or Michigan or a dozen other states, it's not about saving money. It's about punishing those who teeter on the economic edge. It's about making clear that we are not our brothers' keeper.

OWS does demonize powerful banks. The Tea Party demonizes the poorest and weakest of us all.

For OWS unfairness means taxing billionaires at half the rate their secretaries pay and allowing the top 1% of the population to "earn" as much, collectively, as the bottom 60 percent. For Tea Party Republicans taxes themselves are unfair and inequality is desirable. Indeed, they want to give the 1% even a greater share of the nation's wealth.

All Republican presidential candidates promise to lower taxes on the rich. Herman Cain has captured the popular conservative imagination with his 9-9-9 plan, a flat tax of 9 percent on the rich and corporations and the imposition of a 9 percent national sales tax on everyone. This would result in a 50-75 percent cut in taxes paid by the richest 1% while imposing a hefty new tax on the 99%. The Citizens for Tax Justice estimates that under Cain's plan, the bottom 60 percent of taxpayers will pay about $2,000 more in taxes while the richest 1% will pay about $210,000 less.

The Tea Party vision of a future America may have been best expressed by the budget introduced last spring by Tea Party darling Representative Paul Ryan (R-WI) last spring and passed enthusiastically by the Republican House. "This is not a budget," Ryan declared at the time. "This is a cause."

Indeed it was, and is. Ryan's plan would cut about $4.3 trillion from programs that primarily benefit the 99% while cutting taxes by about and equal amount, $4.2 trillion, cuts that would overwhelmingly benefit the 1%. According to Robert Greenstein of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities Ryan's plan "would produce the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history, while increasing poverty and inequality more than any measure in recent times and possibly in the nation's history."

Even when they agree that federal spending is profligate, OWS and the Tea Party violently disagree on what should be cut. Signs and speeches at #Occupy events often target the exorbitant military spending and foreign wars. But despite the fact that the Pentagon is the poster child for government waste and incompetence, not to mention corruption, it is also the only part of the government the Tea Party considers all but off limits.

As soon as Republicans took over the House of Representatives in November 2010, they changed the rules so that military spending does not have to be offset by reduced spending somewhere else, unlike any other kind of government spending. It is the only activity of government Republicans believe does not have to be paid for. The Tea Party's ascendance has only strengthened the Republicans' resolve that the Pentagon's budget is untouchable. An analysis by the Heritage Foundation of Republican votes on defense spending found that Tea Party freshmen were even more likely than their Republican elders to vote against cutting any part of the military budget.

The Use and Abuse of Government

The Tea Party hates the very idea of government, embracing Ronald Reagan's famous dictum, "Government is the problem." OWS also sees government as an enemy when democracy has been corrupted by money and government has been captured by corporations. The Declaration of Principles adopted by the general assembly of Occupy Wall Street in its first days makes this clear, "...no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments."

As Nobel laureate economist Joseph Stiglitz observes government increasingly is the 1%.

Virtually all U.S. senators, and most of the representatives in the House, are members of the top 1 percent when they arrive, are kept in office by money from the top 1 percent, and know that if they serve the top 1 percent well they will be rewarded by the top 1 percent when they leave office....When pharmaceutical companies receive a trillion-dollar gift—through legislation prohibiting the government, the largest buyer of drugs, from bargaining over price—it should not come as cause for wonder. It should not make jaws drop that a tax bill cannot emerge from Congress unless big tax cuts are put in place for the wealthy. Given the power of the top 1 percent, this is the way you would expect the system to work.

But OWS also knows that government is the only vehicle through which the majority can fashion rules that increase personal security and restrain unbridled greed and private power. If we give up on government we give up on our ability to collectively influence our future.

Which is why high on the list of demands by OWS protestors is to minimize the impact of money on politics and increase the number of people voting.

Tea Partiers again take the opposite position. They defend the right of global corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money to influence elections and they advocate policies that suppress voter turnout.

"Since Republicans won control of many statehouses last November, more than a dozen states have passed laws requiring voters to show photo identification at polls, cutting back early voting periods or imposing new restrictions on voter registration drives," the New York Times reported a few weeks back.

A recent study by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law analyzed 19 laws that passed and 2 executive orders that were issued in 14 states this year. The report concludes that these policy changes "could make it significantly harder for more than five million eligible voters to cast ballots in 2012."

Today the Tea Party has the upper hand. With the backing of some of the world's richest men and most powerful corporations, it has successfully converted the justifiable anger at Wall Street and government inaction into an unprecedented and ahistorical form of populism: a mass uprising against the masses. The Occupy Wall Street movement proposes a populism more compatible with other mass protests, one that doesn't turn its back on neighbors, one that fights against massive inequality and concentrated private power, and that urges reforms that can once again allow us to have a government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2011, 04:08:42 PM
http://monthlyreview.org/2010/10/01/the-financialization-of-accumulation

According to Raghuram Rajan (former chief economist for the IMF), for "every dollar of real income growth that was generated [in the United States] between 1976 and 2007, 58 cents went to the top 1 percent of households." In 2007 a single hedge fund manager, John Paulson, "earned" $3.7 billion, around 74,000 times the median household income in the country. Between 1989 and 2007, the share of total wealth held by the top 5 percent of wealth-holders in the United States rose from 59 percent to 62 percent, far outweighing the wealth of the bottom 95 percent of the population. Middle-class homeowners benefitted for a while in the housing boom, but are now losing ground with the housing bust. This increasing inequality in the distribution of income and wealth in an age of financialization has taken the form of "a growing distinction between the 'balance sheet' rich and the 'balance sheet' poor." It is the "enforced savings" of the latter that help augment the exorbitant gains of the former.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Billys Boots on October 26, 2011, 04:24:35 PM
Tks Declan, very interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 27, 2011, 01:29:24 AM
Quote from: Declan on October 26, 2011, 03:26:16 PM
Interesting piece:
The Tea Party vs. Occupy Wall Street
Finally, a truly populist uprising
by David Morris
Host David Gregory complained about Occupy Wall Street protestors "demonizing banks" and wondered, "Is this not a reverse tea party tactic?"

Gregory is right. In many respects Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is indeed a mirror image of the Tea Party. To the Tea Party government is the enemy. To OWS the huge corporation is the enemy. OWS wants to raise taxes on billionaires. The Tea Party wants to considerably reduce them. OWS wants to rebuild and strengthen the safety net. The Tea Party wants to weaken it.

Both OWS and the Tea Party are mass movements but their attitude toward the masses couldn't be more different. OWS and the other #Occupy protests lack leaders and a formal platform, but their demands clearly emerge from the thousands of individual grievances expressed in homemade signs and letters. Mike Konczal at Rortybomb.org did a statistical analysis of 1000 personal statements posted at We are the 99% TUMBLR and found them far less ideological than practical. Their demands effectively boil down to these. "(F)ree us from the bondage of our debts and give us a basic ability to survive."

From his analysis, Konczal sees the outlines of a program, "Upon reflection, it is very obvious where the problems are. There's no universal health care to handle the randomness of poor health. There's no free higher education to allow people to develop their skills outside the logic and relations of indentured servitude. Our bankruptcy code has been rewritten by the top 1% when instead, it needs to be a defense against their need to shove inequality-driven debt at populations. And finally, there's no basic income guaranteed to each citizen to keep poverty and poor circumstances at bay."

As one would expect, given its longevity and political impact, the Tea Party does have leaders and a relatively clear program. Probably the best expression of that program occurred when Houston-based attorney Ryan Hecker created a website and invited people to propose ideas for a platform patterned on the Contract for America the Republicans effectively used in 1994 to gain control of the House of Representatives. Some 1,000 ideas were submitted. Ultimately 450,000 people voted online for the final 10 that became the Contract from America.

All parts of this new Contract are intended to shrink government. "Identify the constitutionality of every new law." "Audit federal agencies for constitutionality." Demand a federal balanced budget amendment. Reduce taxes.

Starkly absent is any mention of the dangers associated with concentrated private wealth and power.

Faux Populism vs. True Populism

Both OWS and the Tea Party might be described as populist but their definitions of populism wildly diverge. That divergence has been clear from their founding. Occupy Wall Street began on September 7, 2011 with hundreds converging on Wall Street. The Tea Party began on February 19, 2009 with a rant from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. CNBC Business News editor Rick Santelli loudly condemned the government's plan to help people stay in their homes. "(D)o we really want to subsidize the losers' mortgages"? he asked. Santelli suggested holding a tea party for traders to dump derivatives into the Chicago River. Floor traders around him cheered his proposal. The video went viral after the Drudge Report publicized it. Within days, Fox News was discussing the appearance of a new "Tea Party". A week later coordinated protests under the Tea Party banner took place in over 40 cities.

Santelli's insistence that those who lose their homes are "losers" who have only themselves to blame is a sentiment widely shared among Tea Party Republicans and most recently expressed by Republican Presidential candidate front runner Herman Cain. When asked about Wall Street protestors Cain, former CEO of Godfather's Pizza declared, "Don't blame Wall Street. Don't blame the big banks. If you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself."

During a recent CNN televised Republican presidential debate held in front of a Tea Party audience, the moderator asked Representative Ron Paul what he would do if a healthy 30 year old man decided not to buy health insurance and then had an injury or disease that required hospitalization and surgery. Who would pay for that? Ron Paul said the man was responsible for his actions. He had taken a risk and would have to suffer the consequences. The moderator asked, "Should society just let him die?". While the Congressman pondered the question, audience members vocally expressed their approval.

This lack of empathy for what OWS would call the 99% is palpable wherever Tea Party Republicans come to power,

In Michigan conservative Republicans gained control last November. The state is home to nearly 2 million people, about 20 percent of the state's population, who depend on food stamps. Until last month, eligibility was based on income. But this year, even while the state remains mired in the worst recession since the 1930s the Republicans made it much more difficult to qualify for food assistance. Eligibility is now based on assets. Those with assets of more than $5,000 in the bank or who own a vehicle worth more than $15,000 will no longer be eligible.

For Michigan Republicans it is not enough to be poor and needy to qualify for food assistance. You must be destitute.

In the Tea Party era, policy makers in three dozen states have proposed drug testing for people receiving benefits like welfare, unemployment assistance, job training and food stamps.

In 2011, Florida succeeded in passing legislation requiring the drug testing of welfare applicants at the urging of its Governor Rick Scott, who rode to office on a wave of Tea Party support. The roughly 113,000 Florida welfare recipients must pay for their own drug test. People who fail the test become ineligible for a year. A second failed test makes them ineligible for three years. The Economist magazine's headlines conveyed the elation Tea Party members must have felt with their legislative victory. Drug testing in Florida: their tea-cup runneth over.

Despite Governor Scott's rhetoric, the poor are not drug addicts. Only about 2 percent of Florida's welfare applicants are failing the test, according to Florida's Department of Children and Families. After adding up the savings derived from not paying welfare to this 2 percent and subtracting the cost of testing 100 percent of the applicants the Tampa Tribune concluded that Florida may save "up to $40,800 to $60,000 for a program that state analysts have predicted will cost $178 million this fiscal year.

But in Florida or Michigan or a dozen other states, it's not about saving money. It's about punishing those who teeter on the economic edge. It's about making clear that we are not our brothers' keeper.

OWS does demonize powerful banks. The Tea Party demonizes the poorest and weakest of us all.

For OWS unfairness means taxing billionaires at half the rate their secretaries pay and allowing the top 1% of the population to "earn" as much, collectively, as the bottom 60 percent. For Tea Party Republicans taxes themselves are unfair and inequality is desirable. Indeed, they want to give the 1% even a greater share of the nation's wealth.

All Republican presidential candidates promise to lower taxes on the rich. Herman Cain has captured the popular conservative imagination with his 9-9-9 plan, a flat tax of 9 percent on the rich and corporations and the imposition of a 9 percent national sales tax on everyone. This would result in a 50-75 percent cut in taxes paid by the richest 1% while imposing a hefty new tax on the 99%. The Citizens for Tax Justice estimates that under Cain's plan, the bottom 60 percent of taxpayers will pay about $2,000 more in taxes while the richest 1% will pay about $210,000 less.

The Tea Party vision of a future America may have been best expressed by the budget introduced last spring by Tea Party darling Representative Paul Ryan (R-WI) last spring and passed enthusiastically by the Republican House. "This is not a budget," Ryan declared at the time. "This is a cause."

Indeed it was, and is. Ryan's plan would cut about $4.3 trillion from programs that primarily benefit the 99% while cutting taxes by about and equal amount, $4.2 trillion, cuts that would overwhelmingly benefit the 1%. According to Robert Greenstein of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities Ryan's plan "would produce the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history, while increasing poverty and inequality more than any measure in recent times and possibly in the nation's history."

Even when they agree that federal spending is profligate, OWS and the Tea Party violently disagree on what should be cut. Signs and speeches at #Occupy events often target the exorbitant military spending and foreign wars. But despite the fact that the Pentagon is the poster child for government waste and incompetence, not to mention corruption, it is also the only part of the government the Tea Party considers all but off limits.

As soon as Republicans took over the House of Representatives in November 2010, they changed the rules so that military spending does not have to be offset by reduced spending somewhere else, unlike any other kind of government spending. It is the only activity of government Republicans believe does not have to be paid for. The Tea Party's ascendance has only strengthened the Republicans' resolve that the Pentagon's budget is untouchable. An analysis by the Heritage Foundation of Republican votes on defense spending found that Tea Party freshmen were even more likely than their Republican elders to vote against cutting any part of the military budget.

The Use and Abuse of Government

The Tea Party hates the very idea of government, embracing Ronald Reagan's famous dictum, "Government is the problem." OWS also sees government as an enemy when democracy has been corrupted by money and government has been captured by corporations. The Declaration of Principles adopted by the general assembly of Occupy Wall Street in its first days makes this clear, "...no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments."

As Nobel laureate economist Joseph Stiglitz observes government increasingly is the 1%.

Virtually all U.S. senators, and most of the representatives in the House, are members of the top 1 percent when they arrive, are kept in office by money from the top 1 percent, and know that if they serve the top 1 percent well they will be rewarded by the top 1 percent when they leave office....When pharmaceutical companies receive a trillion-dollar gift—through legislation prohibiting the government, the largest buyer of drugs, from bargaining over price—it should not come as cause for wonder. It should not make jaws drop that a tax bill cannot emerge from Congress unless big tax cuts are put in place for the wealthy. Given the power of the top 1 percent, this is the way you would expect the system to work.

But OWS also knows that government is the only vehicle through which the majority can fashion rules that increase personal security and restrain unbridled greed and private power. If we give up on government we give up on our ability to collectively influence our future.

Which is why high on the list of demands by OWS protestors is to minimize the impact of money on politics and increase the number of people voting.

Tea Partiers again take the opposite position. They defend the right of global corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money to influence elections and they advocate policies that suppress voter turnout.

"Since Republicans won control of many statehouses last November, more than a dozen states have passed laws requiring voters to show photo identification at polls, cutting back early voting periods or imposing new restrictions on voter registration drives," the New York Times reported a few weeks back.

A recent study by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law analyzed 19 laws that passed and 2 executive orders that were issued in 14 states this year. The report concludes that these policy changes "could make it significantly harder for more than five million eligible voters to cast ballots in 2012."

Today the Tea Party has the upper hand. With the backing of some of the world's richest men and most powerful corporations, it has successfully converted the justifiable anger at Wall Street and government inaction into an unprecedented and ahistorical form of populism: a mass uprising against the masses. The Occupy Wall Street movement proposes a populism more compatible with other mass protests, one that doesn't turn its back on neighbors, one that fights against massive inequality and concentrated private power, and that urges reforms that can once again allow us to have a government of the people, by the people and for the people.
How come you left out the fact that no tear gas has ever been needed to contain those terrorist Tea Partiers  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 27, 2011, 01:39:00 AM
 :D Him worth 50 million but refused to admit he's in the top 1%
Think Mr. Moore has done quite well for himself off of the very Capitalism
he's out there berating...and you idiots lapping him up ::)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/michael-moore-piers-morgan_n_1032428.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 27, 2011, 08:22:46 AM
QuoteHow come you left out the fact that no tear gas has ever been needed to contain those terrorist Tea Partiers

Can't find where I referred to the Tea Partiers as terrorists - I just posted an article that I thought gave an interesting perspective on the origins and motivations of both movements.

The fact that the police used tear gas against one of them is an entirely different discussion. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 27, 2011, 11:26:32 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 27, 2011, 01:29:24 AM
no tear gas has ever been needed to contain those terrorist

Tear gas has ever been needed? Jaysus man that's an awful point of view.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 27, 2011, 03:30:01 PM
Oakland Police and Mayor Face Fresh Protest Over Critical Wounding Veteran
Occupy movement returns to streets demanding answers after teargas canister hit Iraq serviceman Scott Olsen in the head
by Andrew Gumbel
Protesters have returned to downtown Oakland, California, to demand the resignation of the city's mayor and an investigation to explain how an Iraq war veteran, Scott Olsen, was hit in the head by a teargas canister at close range, leaving him critically injured.

Many of Wednesday night's protesters expressed anger. "When the rich steal from the poor it's called business. When the poor fight back it's called violence," a 25-year-old solar energy company executive, Cory Rae Shaw, wrote on a banner.  About 2,000 people – half as many as Tuesday night – massed in front of City Hall on Wednesday, tearing down a steel barricade intended to keep them off the grass in Frank Ogawa Plaza.

When the city closed down a nearby underground station, preventing dispersing protesters going home, they organised a spontaneous march through the centre of the city, chanting: "Whose streets? Our streets!"

Police had been under orders to let them have the run of the plaza until 10pm. Officers stood guard at junctions in patrol cars and motorbikes to deter people from jumping up on to an overhead freeway. The police were more lowkey than on Tuesday, when they manned barricades around the plaza and fired volley after volley of teargas that filled the surrounding streets and smoked out businesses.

As the protest continued late into the night both sides appeared afraid of engaging the other. Many marchers wore scarves over their noses and mouths in anticipation of teargas. Some had gas masks.

When officers wanted the crowd to move out of a traffic intersection they sent an ambulance in with its siren blaring, not a police vehicle.

One sign taped to a lamppost delivered this message to the police: "You've fuelled our fire."

Speaker after speaker demanded the resignation or recall of the city's mayor, Jean Quan, who had initially voiced her support of the protesters. "Mayor Quan you did more damage to Oakland in one evening than Occupy Oakland did in two weeks," said one slogan scrawled near the entrance to her offices.

In an afternoon news conference Quan had struggled to explain the decision to clear the square in the early hours of Tuesday morning and again when protesters returned that evening.

She gave the impression she had been as blindsided as anyone by the decision to close down Occupy Oakland. She had been in Washington at the time and said that although she knew there were hygiene and public safety issues that needed to be addressed, she did not expect that to happen while she was on the other side of the country.

"I only asked the chief to do one thing: to do it when it was the safest for both the police and the demonstrators," she said, pinning responsibility for the decision on her police chief and the top city administrator. When pressed for more details, Quan said: "I don't know everything."

Scott Olsen, 24 – a former US marine who friends said served two tours of duty in Iraq – has become a figurehead among Occupy Wall Street supporters in Oakland and elsewhere. Organisers took to Twitter and other social media urging protesters back into the streets.

Acting Oakland police chief Howard Jordan told a news conference his department was investigating the injury to Olsen as a "level one" incident, the highest for an internal police inquiry.

In Portland, Oregon, a crowd estimated to number at least 1,000 joined in a march organised by the AFL-CIO labour federation in support of the anti-Wall Street movement.

Hundreds of protesters also gathered in New York to march in solidarity, leaving the Occupy Wall Street base in Zuccotti Park and marching around the financial district and city hall. Protesters in New York voted to send $20,000 and 100 tents to their peers in Oakland, according to a Twitter message from a protester identified as JA Myerson and retweeted by the Occupy Wall Street group.

The Oakland crowd was a mixture of eco-activists, families with young children, nurses and teachers, as well as a handful of young men with bandanas or Palestinian keffiyehs covering part of their faces. Many said they were shocked by what happened on Tuesday and were bracing themselves for further confrontations with the police.

"Quan let the [county] sheriffs in to do her dirty work and then said she didn't know who was responsible for the decision. She's got to go," said Robijn Vangiesen, a local activist and organiser.

Vangiesen was in the plaza when Olsen was knocked down by a teargas canister. "He was out, man. Totally non-responsive. He had blood pouring out of his nose," Vangiesen said. The initial teargas volley was followed by another projectile from the police straight into the small crowd trying to help Olsen. His friends said it was a flash-bang grenade, pointing to a video distributed on the internet as evidence, but police have denied this.

Many of Wednesday night's protesters expressed anger. "When the rich steal from the poor it's called business. When the poor fight back it's called violence," a 25-year-old solar energy company executive, Cory Rae Shaw, wrote on a banner.

"Who's really the bandits here?" said Demarion English, a 23-year-old security guard. "I called them bitches. I call the police bitches to their face. We're all fighting for a real cause... and we got teargassed."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 27, 2011, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 27, 2011, 11:26:32 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 27, 2011, 01:29:24 AM
no tear gas has ever been needed to contain those terrorist

Tear gas has ever been needed? Jaysus man that's an awful point of view.


(http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/3/3/7/strawman2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 07:22:00 PM
If the notoriously trigger-happy Oakland PD were firing tear gas at me I'd consider it a compliment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 27, 2011, 08:22:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 27, 2011, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 27, 2011, 11:26:32 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 27, 2011, 01:29:24 AM
no tear gas has ever been needed to contain those terrorist

Tear gas has ever been needed? Jaysus man that's an awful point of view.


(http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/3/3/7/strawman2.jpg)
Never met a mirror you didn't like... eh muppet ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 27, 2011, 08:29:47 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 27, 2011, 08:22:52 PM
(http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/3/3/7/strawman2.jpg)
Never met a mirror you didn't like... eh muppet ;)
[/quote]

From self-loathing to narcissist in 48 hours?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2011, 01:11:53 AM
A very funny piece from Jon Stewart's show on Republican views on science. Some Fox News/Republican talking head named Noelle Nikpour comes across as a complete moron.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-26-2011/weathering-fights---science---what-s-it-up-to- (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-26-2011/weathering-fights---science---what-s-it-up-to-)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 28, 2011, 01:13:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 27, 2011, 08:29:47 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 27, 2011, 08:22:52 PM
(http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/3/3/7/strawman2.jpg)
Never met a mirror you didn't like... eh muppet ;)

From self-loathing to narcissist in 48 hours?
[/quote]
Fcuk no... Self loathing of your Country, Don't think there's anyone on here that isn't
fully aware of the Doting admiration you have for yourself  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 28, 2011, 04:58:44 AM
So the self-loathing was actually loathing of others now? A double flip-flop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on October 28, 2011, 01:51:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 28, 2011, 04:58:44 AM
So the self-loathing was actually loathing of others now? A double flip-flop.
(http://media.salemwebnetwork.com/weblog/pritchard/A%20Digging.jpg)
Get out to hell out of that hole will you ffs :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 30, 2011, 01:22:30 PM
Good piece in the WSJ:


The Divider vs. the Thinker
While Obama readies an ugly campaign, Paul Ryan gives a serious account of what ails America.
By PEGGY NOONAN

People are increasingly fearing the divisions within, even the potential coming apart of, our country. Rich/poor, black/white, young/old, red/blue: The things that divide us are not new, yet there's a sense now that the glue that held us together for more than two centuries has thinned and cracked with age. That it was allowed to thin and crack, that the modern era wore it out.

What was the glue? A love of country based on a shared knowledge of how and why it began; a broad feeling among our citizens that there was something providential in our beginnings; a gratitude that left us with a sense that we should comport ourselves in a way unlike the other nations of the world, that more was expected of us, and not unjustly—
"To whom much is given much is expected"; a general understanding that we were something new in history, a nation founded on ideals and aspirations—liberty, equality—and not mere grunting tribal wants. We were from Europe but would not be European: No formal class structure here, no limits, from the time you touched ground all roads would lead forward. You would be treated not as your father was but as you deserved. That's from "The Killer Angels," a historical novel about the Civil War fought to right a wrong the Founders didn't right. We did in time, and at great cost. What a country.


But there is a broad fear out there that we are coming apart, or rather living through the moment we'll look back on as the beginning of the Great Coming Apart. Economic crisis, cultural stresses: "Half the country isn't speaking to the other half," a moderate Democrat said the other day. She was referring to liberals of her acquaintance who know little of the South and who don't wish to know of it, who write it off as apart from them, maybe beneath them.

To add to the unease, in New York at least, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance. If you are a New Yorker, chances are pretty high you hate what the great investment firms did the past 15 years or so to upend the economy. Yet you feel on some level like you have to be protective of them, because Wall Street pays the bills of the City of New York. Wall Street tax receipts and Wall Street business—restaurants, stores—keep the city afloat. So you want them up and operating and vital, you don't want them to leave—that would only make things worse for people in trouble, people just getting by, and young people starting out. You know you have to preserve them just when you'd most like to deck them.

***
Where is the president in all this? He doesn't seem to be as worried about his country's continuance as his own. He's out campaigning and talking of our problems, but he seems oddly oblivious to or detached from America's deeper fears. And so he feels free to exploit divisions. It's all the rich versus the rest, and there are a lot more of the latter.

Twenty twelve won't be "as sexy" as 2008, he said this week. It will be all brute force. Which will only add to the feeling of unease.

Occupy Wall Street makes an economic critique that echoes the president's, though more bluntly: the rich are bad, down with the elites. It's all ad hoc, more poetry slam than platform. Too bad it's not serious in its substance.

There's a lot to rebel against, to want to throw off. If they want to make a serious economic and political critique, they should make the one Gretchen Morgenson and Joshua Rosner make in "Reckless Endangerment": that real elites in Washington rigged the system for themselves and their friends, became rich and powerful, caused the great cratering, and then "slipped quietly from the scene."


It is a blow-by-blow recounting of how politicians—Democrats and Republicans—passed the laws that encouraged the banks to make the loans that would never be repaid, and that would result in your lost job. Specifically it is the story of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage insurers, and how their politically connected CEOs, especially Fannie's Franklin Raines and James Johnson, took actions that tanked the American economy and walked away rich. It began in the early 1990s, in the Clinton administration, and continued under the Bush administration, with the help of an entrenched Congress that wanted only two things: to receive campaign contributions and to be re-elected.

The story is a scandal, and the book should be the bible of Occupy Wall Street. But they seem as incapable of seeing government as part of the problem as Republicans seem of seeing business as part of the problem.

Which gets us to Rep. Paul Ryan. Mr. Ryan receives much praise, but I don't think his role in the current moment has been fully recognized. He is doing something unique in national politics. He thinks. He studies. He reads. Then he comes forward to speak, calmly and at some length, about what he believes to be true. He defines a problem and offers solutions, often providing the intellectual and philosophical rationale behind them. Conservatives naturally like him—they agree with him—but liberals and journalists inclined to disagree with him take him seriously and treat him with respect.

This week he spoke on "The American Idea" at the Heritage Foundation in Washington. He scored the president as too small for the moment, as "petty" in his arguments and avoidant of the decisions entailed in leadership. At times like this, he said, "the temptation to exploit fear and envy returns." Politicians divide in order to "evade responsibility for their failures" and to advance their interests.

The president, he said, has made a shift in his appeal to the electorate. "Instead of appealing to the hope and optimism that were hallmarks of his first campaign, he has launched his second campaign by preying on the emotions of fear, envy and resentment."

But Republicans, in their desire to defend free economic activity, shouldn't be snookered by unthinking fealty to big business. They should never defend—they should actively oppose—the kind of economic activity that has contributed so heavily to the crisis. Here Mr. Ryan slammed "corporate welfare and crony capitalism."

"Why have we extended an endless supply of taxpayer credit to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, instead of demanding that their government guarantee be wound down and their taxpayer subsidies ended?" Why are tax dollars being wasted on bankrupt, politically connected solar energy firms like Solyndra? "Why is Washington wasting your money on entrenched agribusiness?"

Rather than raise taxes on individuals, we should "lower the amount of government spending the wealthy now receive." The "true sources of inequity in this country," he continued, are "corporate welfare that enriches the powerful, and empty promises that betray the powerless." The real class warfare that threatens us is "a class of bureaucrats and connected crony capitalists trying to rise above the rest of us, call the shots, rig the rules, and preserve their place atop society."

If more Republicans thought—and spoke—like this, the party would flourish. People would be less fearful for the future. And Mr. Obama wouldn't be seeing his numbers go up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2011, 02:21:18 PM
Paul Ryan is a luadraman . He doesn't belive in raising taxes. The US has no other choice.


Occupy Wall Street makes an economic critique that echoes the president's, though more bluntly: the rich are bad, down with the elites. It's all ad hoc, more poetry slam than platform. Too bad it's not serious in its substance.

The top 1% own 33% of all wealth in the US. It's very hard to defend.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 02, 2011, 11:49:08 AM
http://westandwiththe99percent.tumblr.com/ (http://westandwiththe99percent.tumblr.com/)

Some of the 1%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 02, 2011, 07:15:05 PM
Interesting piece in the New Yorker from Frank Rich
http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/class-war-2011-10/ (http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/class-war-2011-10/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 09, 2011, 06:52:19 PM
Not sure where else to post this. Hopefully you find it as amusing as me.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a85f/herman-cains-campaign-promises-with-mike-tyson?playlist=featured_videos (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a85f/herman-cains-campaign-promises-with-mike-tyson?playlist=featured_videos)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 10, 2011, 07:21:01 AM
QuoteNot sure where else to post this. Hopefully you find it as amusing as me.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a85f/herman-cains-campaign-promises-with-mike-tyson?playlist=featured_videos

Brilliant - He's as mad as a brush. Anyone See Parry's "forgetful" performance last night -  :D :D :D :D

What a bunch of of muppets
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 10:06:00 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 10, 2011, 07:21:01 AM
QuoteNot sure where else to post this. Hopefully you find it as amusing as me.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a85f/herman-cains-campaign-promises-with-mike-tyson?playlist=featured_videos

Brilliant - He's as mad as a brush. Anyone See Parry's "forgetful" performance last night -  :D :D :D :D

What a bunch of of muppets

Oh dear!!! Looks like O'Bama will get 4 more years basically unchallenged! 4 more years of TO's drivelling nonsense . . . Great  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ludermor on November 10, 2011, 10:18:28 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 10:06:00 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 10, 2011, 07:21:01 AM
QuoteNot sure where else to post this. Hopefully you find it as amusing as me.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a85f/herman-cains-campaign-promises-with-mike-tyson?playlist=featured_videos

Brilliant - He's as mad as a brush. Anyone See Parry's "forgetful" performance last night -  :D :D :D :D

What a bunch of of muppets

Oh dear!!! Looks like O'Bama will get 4 more years basically unchallenged! 4 more years of TO's drivelling nonsense . . . Great  ::) ::) ::)
It takes 12 to tango.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2011, 05:38:07 PM
Looks like Perry's finally finished. Even this is too stupid for the GOP voters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyMosJdIfdo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyMosJdIfdo)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 10, 2011, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 10:06:00 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 10, 2011, 07:21:01 AM
QuoteNot sure where else to post this. Hopefully you find it as amusing as me.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a85f/herman-cains-campaign-promises-with-mike-tyson?playlist=featured_videos

Brilliant - He's as mad as a brush. Anyone See Parry's "forgetful" performance last night -  :D :D :D :D

What a bunch of of muppets

Oh dear!!! Looks like O'Bama will get 4 more years basically unchallenged! 4 more years of TO's drivelling nonsense . . . Great  ::) ::) ::)
Otherwise known as facts that the eletist, smug cheerleaders here have had no answer for....knuckle dragger and all that I am :D
Incidently...could this circle the wagon, mob mentality type hateful rhetoric be
what Ann Coulter was talking about?
#justasking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Arthur_Friend on November 10, 2011, 07:26:29 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 10, 2011, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 10:06:00 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 10, 2011, 07:21:01 AM
QuoteNot sure where else to post this. Hopefully you find it as amusing as me.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a85f/herman-cains-campaign-promises-with-mike-tyson?playlist=featured_videos

Brilliant - He's as mad as a brush. Anyone See Parry's "forgetful" performance last night -  :D :D :D :D

What a bunch of of muppets

Oh dear!!! Looks like O'Bama will get 4 more years basically unchallenged! 4 more years of TO's drivelling nonsense . . . Great  ::) ::) ::)
Otherwise known as facts that the eletist, smug cheerleaders here have had no answer for....knuckle dragger and all that I am :D
Incidently...could this circle the wagon, mob mentality type hateful rhetoric be
what Ann Coulter was talking about?
#justasking

Is that the dumbass who thought the US bombed Egypt this year?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2011, 07:52:46 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 10, 2011, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 10:06:00 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 10, 2011, 07:21:01 AM
QuoteNot sure where else to post this. Hopefully you find it as amusing as me.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a85f/herman-cains-campaign-promises-with-mike-tyson?playlist=featured_videos

Brilliant - He's as mad as a brush. Anyone See Parry's "forgetful" performance last night -  :D :D :D :D

What a bunch of of muppets

Oh dear!!! Looks like O'Bama will get 4 more years basically unchallenged! 4 more years of TO's drivelling nonsense . . . Great  ::) ::) ::)
Otherwise known as facts that the eletist, smug cheerleaders here have had no answer for....knuckle dragger and all that I am :D
Incidently...could this circle the wagon, mob mentality type hateful rhetoric be
what Ann Coulter was talking about?
#justasking

Liberal socialist elitist communist pinko surrender monkeys! I'm right, you're wrong, you can't handle the truth! Boo! You're bad! I'm good! I'm right! You're wrong! Take that, you liberal leftist hippies! I win! I win! I win!  :D :D :D :D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrones own on November 11, 2011, 02:22:39 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2011, 07:52:46 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 10, 2011, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 10:06:00 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 10, 2011, 07:21:01 AM
QuoteNot sure where else to post this. Hopefully you find it as amusing as me.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a85f/herman-cains-campaign-promises-with-mike-tyson?playlist=featured_videos

Brilliant - He's as mad as a brush. Anyone See Parry's "forgetful" performance last night -  :D :D :D :D

What a bunch of of muppets

Oh dear!!! Looks like O'Bama will get 4 more years basically unchallenged! 4 more years of TO's drivelling nonsense . . . Great  ::) ::) ::)
Otherwise known as facts that the eletist, smug cheerleaders here have had no answer for....knuckle dragger and all that I am :D
Incidently...could this circle the wagon, mob mentality type hateful rhetoric be
what Ann Coulter was talking about?
#justasking

Liberal socialist elitist communist pinko surrender monkeys! I'm right, you're wrong, you can't handle the truth! Boo! You're bad! I'm good! I'm right! You're wrong! Take that, you liberal leftist hippies! I win! I win! I win!  :D :D :D :D ;D ;D
It is what it is Susan... no need for your lipstick and perfume  :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 11, 2011, 03:55:42 AM
Liberal elitist socialist leftist hypocritical tax-and-spend hippies!  Grrr!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 11, 2011, 09:21:57 AM
It's not so much the Conservative right wing waffling TO get's involved with but it's the lack of an alternative solution and the fact he will never answer a question with a straight answer . . . let's see if he can be pinned down to a definitive answer:

IF NOT OBAMA THEN WHO ELSE IS WORTHY ENOUGH TO RUN THE COUNTRY IN YOUR EYES?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2011, 11:56:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2011, 05:38:07 PM
Looks like Perry's finally finished. Even this is too stupid for the GOP voters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyMosJdIfdo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyMosJdIfdo)

You get the impression that Perry doesn't seem to be taking this stuff too seriously or is just not willing to work hard enough to get the nomination. Not just based on this latest gaffe (anyone can temporarily blank in such a situation, albeit not usually for a full minute!), but his performance in general over the past few months. Maybe he thought the Republican base was so desperate for anyone but Romney that he thought he could just swoop in and coast to the nomination without having to put in the hard work. Or maybe he really is just simply not intelligent enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2011, 11:56:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2011, 05:38:07 PM
Looks like Perry's finally finished. Even this is too stupid for the GOP voters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyMosJdIfdo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyMosJdIfdo)

You get the impression that Perry doesn't seem to be taking this stuff too seriously or is just not willing to work hard enough to get the nomination. Not just based on this latest gaffe (anyone can temporarily blank in such a situation, albeit not usually for a full minute!), but his performance in general over the past few months. Maybe he thought the Republican base was so desperate for anyone but Romney that he thought he could just swoop in and coast to the nomination without having to put in the hard work. Or maybe he really is just simply not intelligent enough.

I'll go with your last statement. All hat and no cattle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2011, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2011, 11:56:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2011, 05:38:07 PM
Looks like Perry's finally finished. Even this is too stupid for the GOP voters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyMosJdIfdo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyMosJdIfdo)

You get the impression that Perry doesn't seem to be taking this stuff too seriously or is just not willing to work hard enough to get the nomination. Not just based on this latest gaffe (anyone can temporarily blank in such a situation, albeit not usually for a full minute!), but his performance in general over the past few months. Maybe he thought the Republican base was so desperate for anyone but Romney that he thought he could just swoop in and coast to the nomination without having to put in the hard work. Or maybe he really is just simply not intelligent enough.

I'll go with your last statement. All hat and no cattle

Maybe the whole thing is a pantomime designed to bring everyone behind Romney.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 11, 2011, 02:55:21 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
I'll go with your last statement. All hat and no cattle

:D :D Must remember that one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on November 23, 2011, 11:32:22 AM
If the US economy was a family Budget, by removing a few zeros.

QuoteAnnual family income.     $21,700
Money the family spent.   $38,210
New debt on the credit card. $16,510
Outstanding balence on the credit card.  $147,710

Total budget cuts. $385


QuoteCan America escape its $1.3 trillion black hole?

The United States found itself last night on an express train to historic cuts in domestic and military spending that could quickly shrink its global standing and threaten a fresh recession in the wake of the unceremonious collapse late on Monday of bipartisan deficit-cutting talks.

Numbness mixed with panic settled over Washington following the admission of defeat by the bipartisan super-committee formed in August to find ways to cut federal spending by $1.3 trillion over 10 years. The legacy of its failure promises to be complicated. All sides darted in different directions to start the blame game. In New Hampshire, President Barack Obama appealed to Congress at least to extend middle-class tax breaks that are set to expire, while runners for the Republican presidential nomination excoriated him for a failure of leadership in another debate.

If there is panic it is partly because the terms under which the committee was created stipulated that, in the event of its failure, a swathe of cuts would automatically come in to effect to achieve the same reduction in spending. They are due to begin biting in January 2013 and hold terror mostly for Republicans because they would include a $500bn dive in funding for the Pentagon.

Mr Obama is already warning Congress against making any attempt to challenge the automatic nature of those cuts even if his own Defence Secretary, Leon Panetta, is on the record warning that they would spell catastrophe for the US military. If carried out, he says, the US would have "the smallest ground force since 1940, the smallest number of ships since 1915 and the smallest Air Force in its history".

Democrats have reason to quake also, however, because half of the automatic cuts will affect programmes close to their hearts like education and healthcare. Common sense would suggest that the prospect of these cuts will drive Congress to try again to negotiate a package of spending reductions before they come into effect. But that may be pie-in-the-sky as the US enters an election year.

The super-committee's failure will now compound the sense across the country that Congress is incapable of accomplishing anything, a perception that is bad for everyone on Capitol Hill but probably also for Mr Obama as well. The mood has been further darkened by a downwards revision of US economic growth in the last quarter from 2.5 per cent to 2 per cent.

"It's the chief executive's job to bring people together and to provide leadership. I don't see that happening," Michael Bloomberg, the Mayor of New York, told reporters, adding that the failed talks were another "damning indictment of Washington's ability to govern this country".

If Mr Obama indeed seemed to be absent as the super-committee writhed in recent weeks it was by design. His aides did not want him to be associated with a venture that looked set to fail. Yet it was a strategy that risked making him look gutless.

"Americans expect their President to be a leader, not a calculating politician taking a back seat so he can get re-elected," said Kirsten Kukowski of the Republican National Committee. "The longer Obama punts on important issues, the more Americans will start questioning whether he's the same President they were sold in 2008."

The sharp fall in stock prices on Monday and further losses yesterday were seen by many as a sign that investors were again also losing faith in the ability of the US to control its own fate. So far at least the main rating agencies seem disinclined to downgrade America's debt status. That would surely change, however, if Congress found a way to undo the automatic cuts and replace them with nothing much.

While the automatic cuts indeed promise to do what the super-committee could not do in terms of slaying the budget deficit – the gap between spending and revenue might be cut by half especially if tax cuts for the rich are allowed to expire at the end of 2012 – there are fears that the drop-off in federal spending would be too sudden and would tip the country back into recession.

The battle next year over the tax cuts for the rich alone is likely to be seismic. At the core of the current dysfunction in Washington is the unwillingness of Republicans to contemplate anything but the tiniest increases in taxation. Democrats who are committed to protecting social-protection programmes say some revenue-raising measures are vital.

"We start [from] fundamentally different premises," Senator Pat Toomey, a Republican and former member of the defunct committee, said of the other party yesterday. "They are advocates for big government. If we are gong to have a European-style large government then you need bigger taxes to fund that."

The more immediate problem for Mr Obama however is the scheduled expiry at the end of next month of breaks in what middle-income earners pay in Social Security tax.

A failure to renew them could cost the average American family $1,000 next year, he said in New Hampshire.

(http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article6266269.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/10-America-black-hole-GRAPHIC.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mannix on November 23, 2011, 12:18:52 PM
The USA is looking like a place slipping fast, it's lost the competitive edge because it's too expensive to manufacture there and the regulations and government overreach makes it very difficult for any business to flourish.
India plans on creating 100 million manufacturing jobs over the coming years, imagine the effect it will have on the USA. It's going to become a services industry place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 23, 2011, 03:00:27 PM
Quote from: mannix on November 23, 2011, 12:18:52 PM
The USA is looking like a place slipping fast, it's lost the competitive edge because it's too expensive to manufacture there and the regulations and government overreach makes it very difficult for any business to flourish.
India plans on creating 100 million manufacturing jobs over the coming years, imagine the effect it will have on the USA. It's going to become a services industry place.

No it won't, the yanks will bounce back. say what you want about the Americans but they are very innovative and I firmly believe that they will find a way to ensure that the economy will bounce back and that the job market will bounce back with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on November 24, 2011, 08:56:46 PM
I don't see it will come from?

Where is energy going to come from?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Massey-135 on December 08, 2011, 08:28:42 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/shortcuts/2011/dec/06/muppet-movies-communist-plots-revealed

;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 08, 2011, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: Massey-135 on December 08, 2011, 08:28:42 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/shortcuts/2011/dec/06/muppet-movies-communist-plots-revealed

;)

I'm no Commie, comrades.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 08, 2011, 05:44:54 PM
Others may beg to differ.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 08, 2011, 05:57:22 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 08, 2011, 05:44:54 PM
Others may beg to differ.

They can differ all they like. Communism has failed miserably everywhere. I would be slightly right of centre on most issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2011, 08:06:20 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 08, 2011, 05:44:54 PM
Others may beg to differ.
FFS. Muppet is to the right of Genghis Khan on football issues involving Mayo .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 08, 2011, 08:30:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2011, 08:06:20 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 08, 2011, 05:44:54 PM
Others may beg to differ.
FFS. Muppet is to the right of Genghis Khan on football issues involving Mayo .

He was from Ballyhaunis wasn't he?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2011, 10:03:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 08, 2011, 08:30:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2011, 08:06:20 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 08, 2011, 05:44:54 PM
Others may beg to differ.
FFS. Muppet is to the right of Genghis Khan on football issues involving Mayo .

He was from Ballyhaunis wasn't he?
He used to be great in the FBD league but no use in the championship.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on December 20, 2011, 03:26:17 PM
Earlier this month the National Defense Authorization Act was passed in the Senate basically declaring Martial Law effective 2012.
This law gives the Military the right to arrest and detain indefinitely citizens and non citizens without trial.

Anyone any thoughts on this? Or is this the first you have heard about it?
I normally try to stay out of politics but this is a frightening prospect for me......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 03:30:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on December 20, 2011, 03:26:17 PM
Earlier this month the National Defense Authorization Act was passed in the Senate basically declaring Martial Law effective 2012.
This law gives the Military the right to arrest and detain indefinitely citizens and non citizens without trial.

Anyone any thoughts on this? Or is this the first you have heard about it?
I normally try to stay out of politics but this is a frightening prospect for me......

Where, in the States?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on December 20, 2011, 03:44:40 PM
yes muppet US domestic only. Scary times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LostInSpace on December 20, 2011, 04:06:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on December 20, 2011, 03:44:40 PM
yes muppet US domestic only. Scary times.

You living out there Iceman? That is a scary thought indeed! I know several people living in San Francisco illegally, had houses bought and cars bought, been there 15 years, got caught by US Immigration and arrested, in jail for about 3 days and then sent straight home.  House and car and all belongings left behind.  Its a scary position to be in!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 04:30:37 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on December 20, 2011, 03:44:40 PM
yes muppet US domestic only. Scary times.

I'd be astonished, any chance of a link?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on December 20, 2011, 04:36:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW-e7z7S6VI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW-e7z7S6VI)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on December 20, 2011, 04:45:12 PM
QuoteObama Will Not Veto Bill That Would Indefinitely Detain U.S. Citizens (http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/foreign-policy/war-terror/obama-will-not-veto-bill-would-indefinitely-detain-us-citizens)

On Wednesday, the White House said President Obama would not veto the controversial National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) which would allow the indefinite detention of Americans suspected of terrorism.

At one point the bill contained a provision that would have authorized the U.S. to use military force anywhere there were terrorism suspects, including within the U.S. itself, which would violate U.S. law. That section was removed from the bill in July.

But Section 1021 (c) still remains and states: "The disposition of a person under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the following: (1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the end of hostilities authorized by the Authorization to Use Military Force."

The law would effectively extends the battlefield in the "war on terror" to the U.S. and applies to anyone "who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaida, the Taliban or associated forces.".

Democratic senators tried amend the provisions, but failed. Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) warned the provisions "put every American at risk" of being sent to Guantanamo Bay. Sen. Mark Kirk (R-IL) said it violated the Constitution because U.S. citizens could be apprehended on U.S. soil and held without a trial.

FBI Director Robert Mueller said the provisions would disrupt, rather than strengthen, efforts to fight terrorism in the U.S.

"The statute lacks clarity with regard to what happens at the time of arrest," he explained to the Senate Judiciary Committee. "It lacks clarity with regard to what happens if we had a case in Lackawanna, New York, and an arrest has to be made there and there's no military within several hundred miles."

"What happens if we have ... a case that we're investigating on three individuals, two of whom are American citizens and would not go to military custody and the third is not an American citizen and could go to military custody?"

"It's something so radical that it would have been considered crazy had it been pushed by the Bush administration," said Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch. "It establishes precisely the kind of system that the United States has consistently urged other countries not to adopt. At a time when the United States is urging Egypt, for example, to scrap its emergency law and military courts, this is not consistent."

Basically it extends the notion of 'enemy combatants' to everyone, not just non-US citizens. Absolutely outrageous. And the worst part is that the only person who would reverse this if they became President would be Ron Paul, a man who would bring us all back into the economic Stone Age.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 04:50:02 PM
That article says who is either against it, or in the case of Obama, not vetoing it. It doesn't say which lunatics are proposing and supporting it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on December 20, 2011, 05:09:16 PM
Obama was going to veto it, than got some rather meaningless changes and then signed it. A similar bill was proposed back during the cold war but Harry Truman had the backbone to actually veto it fully.

It already has been for many months flagged internationally for violating human rights. 

The bill I believe came from John McCain, Senator Carl Levin and amazingly Dick Cheney who I thought was no longer a government official, but there you go.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 05:11:38 PM
Civilisation is really hurtling back in time at an incredible rate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 23, 2011, 09:24:32 AM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/judge-rules-iran-taliban-al-qaeda-liable-for-911-attacks/1?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=384245 (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/judge-rules-iran-taliban-al-qaeda-liable-for-911-attacks/1?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=384245)

Iran, the Taliban and al-Qaeda are liable in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, a federal judge in New York has ruled, the Associated Press reports.

U.S. District Judge George Daniels signed a default judgment today in a $100 billion lawsuit filed by families of victims.

A magistrate judge will determine compensatory and punitive damages.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mannix on December 23, 2011, 12:41:46 PM
If mitt Romney gets power he says the first thing he will do is make the us army bigger and fix the Iran problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on December 23, 2011, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: mannix on December 23, 2011, 12:41:46 PM
If mitt Romney gets power he says the first thing he will do is make the us army bigger and fix the Iran problem.

In fairness the yanks have a quare history at "fixing" things
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 23, 2011, 03:30:18 PM
Quote from: mannix on December 23, 2011, 12:41:46 PM
If mitt Romney gets power he says the first thing he will do is make the us army bigger and fix the Iran problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SMHBEAeNa-c
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 23, 2011, 09:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2011, 05:11:38 PM
Civilisation is really hurtling back in time at an incredible rate.
It's going back to the way society was pre WW1 in the US.
Small group of ultra rich and the rest feed over the scraps.  Middle class gets squeezed .
Very little social mobility. Obesity and premature death for the poor. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 23, 2011, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 23, 2011, 09:25:56 PM
Middle class gets squeezed .
Very little social mobility. Obesity and premature death for the poor.

You can't say that! That's class warfare! Stop talking about this issue immediately!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 23, 2011, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 23, 2011, 09:24:32 AM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/judge-rules-iran-taliban-al-qaeda-liable-for-911-attacks/1?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=384245 (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/judge-rules-iran-taliban-al-qaeda-liable-for-911-attacks/1?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=384245)

Iran, the Taliban and al-Qaeda are liable in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, a federal judge in New York has ruled, the Associated Press reports.

U.S. District Judge George Daniels signed a default judgment today in a $100 billion lawsuit filed by families of victims.

A magistrate judge will determine compensatory and punitive damages.

FFS. They just make it up as they go along.

Saudis did it . But the US needs the oil.
And how does the US treat its own soldiers?   

http://www.utne.com/Wild-Green/Toxic-Trash-Pits-Take-Toll-on-U.S.-Soldiers.aspx#ixzz1hOzrKSFr

Did the United States poison tens of thousands of its own soldiers in Iraq with fumes from burning toxic trash? Before you consider it an outlandish suggestion, I suggest you read J. Malcolm Garcia's moving account in the Oxford American of two American soldiers who made it back from their tours of duty having escaped insurgents' shells, bullets, and improvised explosive devices—only to die slow, torturous deaths from the effects of garbage torched in open pits by the U.S. military.

Personal stories like those of Billy McKenna and Kevin Wilkins may only become more common in coming years, according to Garcia, since the U.S. military operated at least 23 burn pits in Iraq before combat operations ended this year, including a notoriously noxious one that often literally cast a pall over Balad Air Base.

"The burn pit at Balad consumed about 250 tons of waste a day," he writes, "exposing 25,000 U.S. military personnel and thousands of contractors to toxic fumes."

Garcia's immersive narrative is a humanizing look into a slowly unfolding story that has been reported in bits and pieces for a few years, but hasn't entirely sunken into the national consciousness, perhaps in part because it runs so counter to a reflexively patriotic, military-booster mindset: We wouldn't have harmed our own soldiers, would we?

It just so turns out that we probably did. Writes Garcia:


The Veterans Administration states on its own webpage that chemicals, paint, medical and human waste, metals, aluminum, unexploded ordnance, munitions, and petroleum products among other toxic waste are destroyed in burn pits. Possible side effects, the department notes, "may affect the skin, eyes, respiration, kidneys, liver, nervous system, cardiovascular system, reproductive system, peripheral nervous system, and gastrointestinal tract."


Read more:
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 31, 2012, 05:39:05 PM
I really do despair.

Fox news has accused The Muppets movie, and "liberal hollywood" of "brainwashing" children - with the new Muppets movie - because the bad guy is an Oil Tycoon. It's not cause he's an oil tycoon that makes him the bad guy - but it's that he wants to tear down the muppets theatre to drill for oil. Watch this video and come to terms with the fact that this video is real, it's not a joke...A more disgusting pair of opinions I've yet to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6ekkvWnOE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6ekkvWnOE)

I guess the muppets had somewhat of a response though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8YhED4IgQA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8YhED4IgQA)

Hell, in a handbasket, on a rocketship. That's where we're going.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omagh_gael on January 31, 2012, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 31, 2012, 05:39:05 PM
I really do despair.

Fox news has accused The Muppets movie, and "liberal hollywood" of "brainwashing" children - with the new Muppets movie - because the bad guy is an Oil Tycoon. It's not cause he's an oil tycoon that makes him the bad guy - but it's that he wants to tear down the muppets theatre to drill for oil. Watch this video and come to terms with the fact that this video is real, it's not a joke...A more disgusting pair of opinions I've yet to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6ekkvWnOE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6ekkvWnOE)

I guess the muppets had somewhat of a response though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8YhED4IgQA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8YhED4IgQA)

Hell, in a handbasket, on a rocketship. That's where we're going.

2nd Youtube link is very good :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on February 08, 2012, 11:30:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kxw4uZAezaI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LUumD0MwL8


Can you imagine these kind of campaign ads anywhere else?

There is a real argument within all this about the madness of US economic policy but greater care needs to be taken not to stir things by making it appear that the Chinese are laughing all the way to bank at US peoples expense.

Its like Red-Terror all over again.

It was after all, the short-sightedness of the Chicago school of economics that are the root of the problem. And while that is implied in these ads, what use is it framing the Chinese in a bad light.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2012, 10:26:27 PM
Jen Sorenson on Romney

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002178923

Stephen colbert romney "ad"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aix7tQMdJ3s

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 13, 2012, 01:37:14 AM
Alabama and Mississippi Republican primarys coming up

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_SouthernSwing_312.pdf

Public Policy Polling surveyed
"likely Republican primary voters in Alabama"

Q22 Do you think Barack Obama is a Christian or a
Muslim, or are you not sure?
Christian.......................................................... 14%
Muslim ............................................................ 45%
Not sure .......................................................... 41%

Q23 Do you believe in evolution, or not?
Believe in evolution............................................. 26%
Do not ............................................................. 60%
Not sure .......................................................... 13%

Q24 Do you think that interracial marriage should be
legal or illegal?
Legal............................................................... 67%
Illegal .............................................................. 21%
Not sure .......................................................... 12%

"likely Republican voters in Mississippi"

Q22 Do you think Barack Obama is a Christian or a
Muslim, or are you not sure?
Christian.......................................................... 12%
Muslim ............................................................ 52%
Not sure .......................................................... 36%

Q23 Do you believe in evolution, or not?
Believe in evolution............................................. 22%
Do not ............................................................ 66%
Not sure .......................................................... 11%

Q24 Do you think that interracial marriage should be
legal or illegal?
Legal............................................................... 54%
Illegal .............................................................. 29%
Not sure .......................................................... 17%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: southdown on March 28, 2012, 12:19:19 PM
The US covering themeselves in glory yet again.....

For a nation that supposedly endorses freedom, democracy and all that malarky, they are just as bad as bad as some of the world's most rogue states when it comes to capital punishment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17520053

And in Saudi, the executioner below is almost treated like a celebrity, sickening stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JTPjs9nGNA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2012, 04:39:40 PM
Its certain states in the US, not the entire country.

Personally, I have no problem with the penalty of execution for certain horrific crimes. The reason I think it should be abolished is the risk of miscarriages of justice.

I'd still rather take my chances in Texas than in Iran or China though!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2012, 04:41:31 PM
This thread's been awful quiet!

Where's Tyrones Own these days?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 28, 2012, 05:28:12 PM
We're waiting for the electionering to begin. 

Anyway I think China will have a bigger influence on what happens in Ireland and I don't see them having elections soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 29, 2012, 12:49:07 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304177104577309203491177784.html?mod=WSJEUROPE_hpp_RIGHTTopCarousel_3 (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304177104577309203491177784.html?mod=WSJEUROPE_hpp_RIGHTTopCarousel_3)

Some interesting thoughts here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 29, 2012, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2012, 04:39:40 PM
Its certain states in the US, not the entire country.

Personally, I have no problem with the penalty of execution for certain horrific crimes. The reason I think it should be abolished is the risk of miscarriages of justice.

I'd still rather take my chances in Texas than in Iran or China though!

I take it you're white then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 29, 2012, 08:37:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 29, 2012, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2012, 04:39:40 PM
Its certain states in the US, not the entire country.

Personally, I have no problem with the penalty of execution for certain horrific crimes. The reason I think it should be abolished is the risk of miscarriages of justice.

I'd still rather take my chances in Texas than in Iran or China though!

I take it you're white then.

You think you're less likely to get a fair hearing in Texas than China or Iran?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 31, 2012, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 29, 2012, 08:37:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 29, 2012, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2012, 04:39:40 PM
Its certain states in the US, not the entire country.

Personally, I have no problem with the penalty of execution for certain horrific crimes. The reason I think it should be abolished is the risk of miscarriages of justice.

I'd still rather take my chances in Texas than in Iran or China though!

I take it you're white then.

You think you're less likely to get a fair hearing in Texas than China or Iran?

White Americans voted for Obama in their millions, despite the ignorance from the likes of eamonnca1 etc, America is getting better on issues such as racism and there are very few states that allow the death penalty.

America does an awful lot right, it also does an awful lot wrong, that said if someone thinks they would be better off in a Chinese or middle eastern prison, rather than a Texas one, they are either stupid or ignorant, take your pick!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 31, 2012, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: stew on March 31, 2012, 01:52:13 PM
White Americans voted for Obama in their millions, despite the ignorance from the likes of eamonnca1 etc, America is getting better on issues such as racism and there are very few states that allow the death penalty.


Only if 34 states out of 50 is "very few" in your book.

QuoteAmerica does an awful lot right, it also does an awful lot wrong, that said if someone thinks they would be better off in a Chinese or middle eastern prison, rather than a Texas one, they are either stupid or ignorant, take your pick!

Au contraire:

QuoteIn 2001, Human Rights Watch estimated that at least 140,000 inmates had been raped while incarcerated. [1] and there is a significant variation in the rates of prison rape by race. Just Detention International (formerly known as Stop Prisoner Rape, Inc.) estimate that young men are five times more likely to be attacked, and that the prison rape victims are ten times more likely to contract a deadly disease. A meta-analysis published in 2004 found a prevalence rate of 1.91% with a 95% confidence interval between 1.37–2.46%.[2] In a survey of 1,788 male inmates in Midwestern prisons by Prison Journal, about 21% claimed they had been coerced or pressured into sexual activity during their incarceration, and 7% claimed that they had been raped in their current facility.[3]

According to the study conducted by the United States Department of Justice for the year 2006, there were 2,205 allegations of inmate-on-inmate nonconsensual sexual acts reported, total, in the U.S. prison system. 262 of the allegations were substantiated.[4]

Prison rape has become a staple of comedy or drama in films and television. Films such as Office Space, Half Baked, and Let's Go to Prison have used it for comedic purposes, while prison drama Oz contained multiple scenes of rape. Kurt Vonnegut's novel Breakfast of Champions features a character, Wayne Hoobler, whose prison experience consisted of sexual encounters with other inmates.

Title: Hello Mr. President.....
Post by: muppet on April 17, 2012, 09:25:04 PM
(https://p.twimg.com/AqtCkrgCAAAhlNT.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on April 17, 2012, 11:23:02 PM
http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/watch-fox-news-guest-drops-f-bomb-refuses-to-apologise-420806-Apr2012/ (http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/watch-fox-news-guest-drops-f-bomb-refuses-to-apologise-420806-Apr2012/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 30, 2012, 02:25:34 PM
http://progressive.org/26_billionaires_buying_2012_elections.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 31, 2012, 02:09:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2012, 10:26:27 PM
Jen Sorenson on Romney

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002178923

Stephen colbert romney "ad"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aix7tQMdJ3s


you cannot cherry pick who you youtube, Obamination has put this country on the edge of economic ruin and there are plenty of pundits that think he is a nightmare in the ilk of W.

W started this thing although the economy was starting to go south in the last six months of the Clinton presidency, that said W was a disaster and Obama is just as bad if not worse.

What sickens me is the amount of eejits on here who are all for the democrats without having any sort of balance at all at all, the truth of the matter is this country has not had a decent president since Clinton and even McCain was dumb enough to take palin as his running mate, an absolute disastrous decision which cost him a real chance of the presidency.

Buy yourselves some perspective peeps, there are shite politicians across the board and Obama is as much a mare as W, I fecking live here and that is the Gods honest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 31, 2012, 06:06:40 AM
GM's still alive and Bin Laden is dead.  If Romney were president the opposite would be true.

By the time Obama's done he'll deserve to be added to Mount Rushmore.

4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 31, 2012, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 02:09:29 AM
there are shite politicians across the board and Obama is as much a mare as W, I fecking live here and that is the Gods honest.

Stew,

I'm curious as to what in particular has underwhelmed you with President Obama thus far, and also if you think that the Republicans likely candidate Romney, would be a better president. Or any of the outsiders the Republicans can still nominate, Ron Paul, Matt Snyder, Vern Wuensche, Tom Miller, Jimmy McMillan, Andy Martin or Kathryn Lane, do you see any of those folks doing a better job running the country?

Perhaps an independent may have a shot this year? Anyone you'd like to see?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 31, 2012, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 31, 2012, 06:06:40 AM
GM's still alive and Bin Laden is dead.  If Romney were president the opposite would be true.

By the time Obama's done he'll deserve to be added to Mount Rushmore.

4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years!

Unparalled debt, the clampett gave handouts to wall street executives and they gave themselves a nice big fat bonus ev en though their companies lost billions.

Health care reform is f**king nuts altogether and would destroy the economy.

Big government is king under this clown.

He has been a disaster, admitted to have lost touch with the people and is taxing the middle class to death.

How about this wee man, let the career unemployed get jobs and if they make under a certain amount the government then should kick in and help. There are many public services they could do instead if they really dont want to work.

We are taxed to the hilt under this clown, we work and there is plenty of work for those that want it, fcuk the bleeding hearts.

No more years! No more years! no more years!

Mount Rushmore my hole, he will go down with W as a useless bastard and the tail end of the Presidential rankings.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 31, 2012, 12:52:28 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 31, 2012, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 02:09:29 AM
there are shite politicians across the board and Obama is as much a mare as W, I fecking live here and that is the Gods honest.

Stew,

I'm curious as to what in particular has underwhelmed you with President Obama thus far, and also if you think that the Republicans likely candidate Romney, would be a better president. Or any of the outsiders the Republicans can still nominate, Ron Paul, Matt Snyder, Vern Wuensche, Tom Miller, Jimmy McMillan, Andy Martin or Kathryn Lane, do you see any of those folks doing a better job running the country?

Perhaps an independent may have a shot this year? Anyone you'd like to see?
Quote from: heganboy on July 31, 2012, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 02:09:29 AM
there are shite politicians across the board and Obama is as much a mare as W, I fecking live here and that is the Gods honest.

Stew,

I'm curious as to what in particular has underwhelmed you with President Obama thus far, and also if you think that the Republicans likely candidate Romney, would be a better president. Or any of the outsiders the Republicans can still nominate, Ron Paul, Matt Snyder, Vern Wuensche, Tom Miller, Jimmy McMillan, Andy Martin or Kathryn Lane, do you see any of those folks doing a better job running the country?

Perhaps an independent may have a shot this year? Anyone you'd like to see?

This country has not had a good candidate since Clinton, Romney is not a goodun either and there is not a single independent out there that would be a viable candidate, Ron Paul is a wee bit nuts and unfit for the top office.

Bring back Bubba, he was the best President in the past couple of decades, I know it cant happen but when the country is this messed up they should let him tog out for another term.

I have two kids, one is Republican and the other a Liberal, the wife is also going to vote for Obama which I dont understand, maybe it is because Romney is a scary proposition and may not even do the job Obama did, I dont know, I wanted Obama to be great, he sucks,as did W before him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 12:43:59 PM
We are taxed to the hilt under this clown, we work and there is plenty of work for those that want it, fcuk the bleeding hearts.

Tax rates have fallen (http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/12/06/chart-of-the-day-u-s-taxes/) under the Obama administration. Not that it has anything to do with him, tax is set by Congress, but let's stick to the facts.

(http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/files/2010/12/US_TAXGDP1210.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 31, 2012, 01:20:50 PM
Thats a lovely wee graph, it is also bullshit, a good example of that was March 1st of this year, my good wife and I paid $3,174, 26 more in taxes than we did the previous year, oh yeah, we also got a rate hike from the Village we liv e in of no less than $923.56. I live here and people are pissed about the taxation situation and the wee graph is inaccurate in the extreme.

As for the congress thing, that is true up to a point, he has this thing called the power of veto and he can use his office to make decisions like lowering taxes, he is however a master at trying to tax the shite out of the middle class and the wealthy and attacked Romney because he had the temerity to be a self made multi millionaire.

I have friends who were business owners, due to the economy they had to close their doors and had to take money out of annuities, Obamanation had the opportunity to do the right thing and lower the exorbitant taxes on taking money out of your retirement fund before the age of 59 and a half, when all is said and done, you take ten grand out and you lose 45 - 50% of that. This is criminal and the rate should be halved to let people get back on their feet.

Taxing the shit out of the rich is not the answer either, everyone should pay their fair share and obviously there should be different rates based on your level of income, just my two cents worth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 01:20:50 PM
Thats a lovely wee graph, it is also bullshit, a good example of that was March 1st of this year, my good wife and I paid $3,174, 26 more in taxes than we did the previous year, oh yeah, we also got a rate hike from the Village we liv e in of no less than $923.56. I live here and people are pissed about the taxation situation and the wee graph is inaccurate in the extreme.

I post a graph from the US Senate Joint Committee on Taxation. You post your own personal experience. I leave it to others to decide which best represents the experience of 300 million people living in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 02:06:50 PM
Well done to Mitt Romney who has had an epiphany on the virtues of socialised health care systems (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/07/30/romney-praises-health-care-in-israel-where-strong-government-influence-has-driven-down-costs/) during his visit to Israel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on July 31, 2012, 04:40:46 PM
Romeny will not be much better. Out of all the candidates on the Republican side I would have preferred them to put Ron Paul forward.
People in America invest way too much energy in politics, and you seem to have been sucked into it all too Stew.
Nothing really changes here. President's come and go, political parties pass the baton and the country is still the same.

Big Business runs America. There is no real democracy here that I can see.

The Church also hold people to ransom to vote for Republicans just because of the Republican Party's "perceived" stance on ethical and moral issues but they don't have the best politics (even if it did matter).

I'm glad I'm not a citizen and I'm glad I don't have to vote. Politics is banned in our house (at least American politics :) )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 31, 2012, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 01:20:50 PM
Thats a lovely wee graph, it is also bullshit, a good example of that was March 1st of this year, my good wife and I paid $3,174, 26 more in taxes than we did the previous year, oh yeah, we also got a rate hike from the Village we liv e in of no less than $923.56. I live here and people are pissed about the taxation situation and the wee graph is inaccurate in the extreme.

I post a graph from the US Senate Joint Committee on Taxation. You post your own personal experience. I leave it to others to decide which best represents the experience of 300 million people living in the US.

I am just an example, you said taxes went down, they didnt, they went up for the middle class and the upper class, they had to I suppose to support the lazy that never want to find work and the illegal immigrants that suck the life out of the economy.

This President is soft on illegal immigration, granted it is hypocritical of both parties that they let migrant Mexican workers in to work in the fields come harvest time they use them when it suits them and that is wrong.

Mexican kids come across the border every school day, they get a bus to said school paid for by the American taxpayer and the teachers are not allowed to ask the kids were they are from, that is ridiculous, Liberalism gone mad.

Why the feck should I and every taxpayer have to pay for illegal aliens to break the law?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 09:49:30 PM
If you can't see what is wrong with extrapolating the experience of the entire United States from a sample size of 1, there's no point in carrying on the conversation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2012, 09:58:18 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 01:20:50 PM
Thats a lovely wee graph, it is also bullshit, a good example of that was March 1st of this year, my good wife and I paid $3,174, 26 more in taxes than we did the previous year, oh yeah, we also got a rate hike from the Village we liv e in of no less than $923.56. I live here and people are pissed about the taxation situation and the wee graph is inaccurate in the extreme.

I post a graph from the US Senate Joint Committee on Taxation. You post your own personal experience. I leave it to others to decide which best represents the experience of 300 million people living in the US.

I am just an example, you said taxes went down, they didnt, they went up for the middle class and the upper class, they had to I suppose to support the lazy that never want to find work and the illegal immigrants that suck the life out of the economy.

This President is soft on illegal immigration, granted it is hypocritical of both parties that they let migrant Mexican workers in to work in the fields come harvest time they use them when it suits them and that is wrong.

Mexican kids come across the border every school day, they get a bus to said school paid for by the American taxpayer and the teachers are not allowed to ask the kids were they are from, that is ridiculous, Liberalism gone mad.

Why the feck should I and every taxpayer have to pay for illegal aliens to break the law?

Illegal immigrants and "the lazy"? Why don't you throw the homosexuals, atheists, feminists and "environazis" in there to complete the right wing paranoid resentment checklist!  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on July 31, 2012, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2012, 09:58:18 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 01:20:50 PM
Thats a lovely wee graph, it is also bullshit, a good example of that was March 1st of this year, my good wife and I paid $3,174, 26 more in taxes than we did the previous year, oh yeah, we also got a rate hike from the Village we liv e in of no less than $923.56. I live here and people are pissed about the taxation situation and the wee graph is inaccurate in the extreme.

I post a graph from the US Senate Joint Committee on Taxation. You post your own personal experience. I leave it to others to decide which best represents the experience of 300 million people living in the US.

I am just an example, you said taxes went down, they didnt, they went up for the middle class and the upper class, they had to I suppose to support the lazy that never want to find work and the illegal immigrants that suck the life out of the economy.

This President is soft on illegal immigration, granted it is hypocritical of both parties that they let migrant Mexican workers in to work in the fields come harvest time they use them when it suits them and that is wrong.

Mexican kids come across the border every school day, they get a bus to said school paid for by the American taxpayer and the teachers are not allowed to ask the kids were they are from, that is ridiculous, Liberalism gone mad.

Why the feck should I and every taxpayer have to pay for illegal aliens to break the law?

Illegal immigrants and "the lazy"? Why don't you throw the homosexuals, atheists, feminists and "environazis" in there to complete the right wing paranoid resentment checklist!  :D

Was thinking the same. Were you not an"illegal immigrant" yourself at one time Stew? Or is that term only for non-white fruit pickers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 31, 2012, 10:07:16 PM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 12:43:59 PM
the clampett gave handouts to wall street executives and they gave themselves a nice big fat bonus ev en though their companies lost billions.

Perhaps you refer to TARP. 

You are aware that that bailout took place under the Bush administration, aren't you?  The economy was collapsing while the 2008 campaign was still underway, between Barack Obama and John "the fundamentals of our economy are sound" McCain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on July 31, 2012, 10:08:29 PM
WASHINGTON—With polls this week showing the race between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney tightening even further, a growing number of political experts have declared this year's election will almost certainly be decided by a small handful of swing corporations.

"While most publicly traded companies are solidly red or blue, there are four or five major corporations that are complete tossups right now, and any one of them could prove decisive come November," said Nate Silver of The New York Times, noting in particular that Procter & Gamble, a traditional bellwether for the country as a whole, remained a "total wildcard." "Both candidates will have to focus almost exclusively on these swing businesses in order to gain the upper hand."

"And given how close this race is, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing comes down to undecided executives at Dow Chemical or Disney," Silver continued. "Let's not forget 2000, when Philip Morris International single-handedly put George W. Bush into office."

According to polling data, the president's favorability has fallen steadily among independent-leaning multinationals, a demographic that effectively carried him to victory in 2008. Additionally, the latest figures suggest that even some reliably Democratic strongholds, such as Google, may now be in play, buoying hopes within the Romney camp that the GOP challenger could take the White House with an unexpected victory in a key tech boardroom.

Recognizing the importance of these closely contested conglomerates, both Obama and Romney have made frequent campaign stops at swing corporations in recent weeks and delivered speeches aimed squarely at these pivotal companies' interests, with both candidates blasting each other as out of touch with the issues that truly matter to real American CEOs.

"As president, I promise to stand up for you in Washington and always put you first," Romney said earlier this week, addressing an audience in the battleground boardroom of Time Warner during a barnstorming tour through the communications sector. "All of you good, hardworking people gathered here represent the best of America, and mark my words, I will do everything in my power to fight for your freedoms and prosperity."

Political observers have noted the stakes of this year's election are unusually high, with many experts claiming the Affordable Care Act's fate, the tax burden on American families, and a possible U.S. invasion of Iran are questions that now reside entirely in the hands of those few Fortune 500 corporations that remain up for grabs.

"I went with Obama in 2008, but now I'm having my doubts," said Kenneth Frazier, an undecided CEO at the Merck corporation. "Frankly, I've been disappointed with his failure to follow through on the promises he made to us four years ago. This time around, I want to make sure I'm voting for someone who truly has the best interests of me and my company at heart."

"It's kind of exciting, though," Frazier added. "Who knows? Maybe in November it will be our $15 million backing funneled anonymously into a political action committee that decides this whole thing."

MORE NEWS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on July 31, 2012, 10:17:54 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 31, 2012, 10:02:27 PM
Was thinking the same. Were you not an"illegal immigrant" yourself at one time Stew? Or is that term only for non-white fruit pickers?

Why would that be an assertion/question? It is possible to be in the USA legally from Day 1 you know!

Stew by the way - you probably paid more taxes this year because you should have received more in each pay check (i.e. paid less taxes monthly), and you may not have adjusted your deductions for this and so got hit with a bill in April.

I received about $700 tax back in 2010 and without adjusting my taxes in the slightest last year I had to pay $3.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 31, 2012, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 09:49:30 PM
If you can't see what is wrong with extrapolating the experience of the entire United States from a sample size of 1, there's no point in carrying on the conversation

I went to a town hall meeting to complain about the tax increase, there were three thousand one hundred and sixty four people that signed a petition to have the taxes lowered, the meeting had to be held outdoors due to the large numbers, this is a village? town with less than twenty thousand people, that said it is a pretty affluent place for the most part and so now we are up to$3,164, in one village ffs, the state has nigh on 6 million people, do the math.
Quote from: Puckoon on July 31, 2012, 10:17:54 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 31, 2012, 10:02:27 PM
Was thinking the same. Were you not an"illegal immigrant" yourself at one time Stew? Or is that term only for non-white fruit pickers?

Why would that be an assertion/question? It is possible to be in the USA legally from Day 1 you know!

Stew by the way - you probably paid more taxes this year because you should have received more in each pay check (i.e. paid less taxes monthly), and you may not have adjusted your deductions for this and so got hit with a bill in April.

I received about $700 tax back in 2010 and without adjusting my taxes in the slightest last year I had to pay $3.

I wouldn't set foot in any country illegally, two sisters came here that way and I completely disagreed with that decision political refugees are fine and I dont give a shite what colour someone is, we are all people ffs.

Non white fruit pickers eh, nah, not me, wrong on both counts chap!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on August 01, 2012, 12:18:55 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on July 31, 2012, 10:17:54 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 31, 2012, 10:02:27 PM
Was thinking the same. Were you not an"illegal immigrant" yourself at one time Stew? Or is that term only for non-white fruit pickers?

Why would that be an assertion/question? It is possible to be in the USA legally from Day 1 you know!

Stew by the way - you probably paid more taxes this year because you should have received more in each pay check (i.e. paid less taxes monthly), and you may not have adjusted your deductions for this and so got hit with a bill in April.

I received about $700 tax back in 2010 and without adjusting my taxes in the slightest last year I had to pay $3.

I know that but alot of Irish are initially working illegally in the States and I thought it might be likely that Stew was at one time an illegal immigrant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on August 01, 2012, 12:20:33 AM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 09:49:30 PM
If you can't see what is wrong with extrapolating the experience of the entire United States from a sample size of 1, there's no point in carrying on the conversation

I went to a town hall meeting to complain about the tax increase, there were three thousand one hundred and sixty four people that signed a petition to have the taxes lowered, the meeting had to be held outdoors due to the large numbers, this is a village? town with less than twenty thousand people, that said it is a pretty affluent place for the most part and so now we are up to$3,164, in one village ffs, the state has nigh on 6 million people, do the math.
Quote from: Puckoon on July 31, 2012, 10:17:54 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 31, 2012, 10:02:27 PM
Was thinking the same. Were you not an"illegal immigrant" yourself at one time Stew? Or is that term only for non-white fruit pickers?

Why would that be an assertion/question? It is possible to be in the USA legally from Day 1 you know!

Stew by the way - you probably paid more taxes this year because you should have received more in each pay check (i.e. paid less taxes monthly), and you may not have adjusted your deductions for this and so got hit with a bill in April.

I received about $700 tax back in 2010 and without adjusting my taxes in the slightest last year I had to pay $3.

I wouldn't set foot in any country illegally, two sisters came here that way and I completely disagreed with that decision political refugees are fine and I dont give a shite what colour someone is, we are all people ffs.

Non white fruit pickers eh, nah, not me, wrong on both counts chap!

Aw personally I'd have no qualms about your sister staying in America illegally, I'm sure like alot of the Irish they would have paid there way at the end of things.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 01, 2012, 02:04:47 AM
Quote from: trileacman on August 01, 2012, 12:20:33 AM
Quote from: stew on July 31, 2012, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 31, 2012, 09:49:30 PM
If you can't see what is wrong with extrapolating the experience of the entire United States from a sample size of 1, there's no point in carrying on the conversation

I went to a town hall meeting to complain about the tax increase, there were three thousand one hundred and sixty four people that signed a petition to have the taxes lowered, the meeting had to be held outdoors due to the large numbers, this is a village? town with less than twenty thousand people, that said it is a pretty affluent place for the most part and so now we are up to$3,164, in one village ffs, the state has nigh on 6 million people, do the math.
Quote from: Puckoon on July 31, 2012, 10:17:54 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 31, 2012, 10:02:27 PM
Was thinking the same. Were you not an"illegal immigrant" yourself at one time Stew? Or is that term only for non-white fruit pickers?

Why would that be an assertion/question? It is possible to be in the USA legally from Day 1 you know!

Stew by the way - you probably paid more taxes this year because you should have received more in each pay check (i.e. paid less taxes monthly), and you may not have adjusted your deductions for this and so got hit with a bill in April.

I received about $700 tax back in 2010 and without adjusting my taxes in the slightest last year I had to pay $3.

I wouldn't set foot in any country illegally, two sisters came here that way and I completely disagreed with that decision political refugees are fine and I dont give a shite what colour someone is, we are all people ffs.

Non white fruit pickers eh, nah, not me, wrong on both counts chap!

Aw personally I'd have no qualms about your sister staying in America illegally, I'm sure like a lot of the Irish they would have paid there way at the end of things.

Correct, well one of them did.

I claim 1 as a dependent just because I want to have my taxes paid with a return from the federales and not have to dig out of our savings, it's cleaner that way and I don't have to worry about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 01, 2012, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on August 01, 2012, 12:18:55 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on July 31, 2012, 10:17:54 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 31, 2012, 10:02:27 PM
Was thinking the same. Were you not an"illegal immigrant" yourself at one time Stew? Or is that term only for non-white fruit pickers?

Why would that be an assertion/question? It is possible to be in the USA legally from Day 1 you know!

Stew by the way - you probably paid more taxes this year because you should have received more in each pay check (i.e. paid less taxes monthly), and you may not have adjusted your deductions for this and so got hit with a bill in April.

I received about $700 tax back in 2010 and without adjusting my taxes in the slightest last year I had to pay $3.

I know that but alot of Irish are initially working illegally in the States and I thought it might be likely that Stew was at one time an illegal immigrant.

I married an American citizen who grew up in Newry, it took us three months to get visas for myself and my two daughters, they are now Irish citizens and American citizens.

We were doing rightly at home, I had my own business and my wife was a district Nurse, I did not want to go initially right up until a group of loyalist scumbags kicked my sisters best friend to death after getting pissed up in a Glentoran supporters club were the boyfriend was playing in a band.

That hit me hard and we decided the north was not going to be a place I was going to raise our children and that is why we went stateside, it is a decision we did not regret but it is hard at times, I miss the family and I was an Armagh junkie, I get to watch maybe two games every two years or so. I also miss my mates and going to the local and the Harps club to quaff a few pints of black but you make your choices and you live with them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 01, 2012, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: stew on August 01, 2012, 02:01:47 PM
but you make your choices and you live with them.

you chose to live under in the US with US elected officials, you chose to live in a town with high and increasing taxes, you chose to live in a country with an outdated immigration and economic policy. you chose to live in a country where the middle class will be taxed increasingly highly because their sway on elections is insignificant. You chose to live in a country where the education and healthcare for your family will take up an entirely unreasonable proportion of your expenses, because americans demand cheap gas, and don't realise that the US tax code is written by a congress that is entirely in the pocket of lobbyists who are not interested in the middle class or indeed the US economy, but rather protecting the wealth of those in charge of the corporations and associations who contribute nothing to the governments revenue. Those lobbyists are also the ones that decide who gets the nominations for election, and they sway those nominations on the likelihood of those candidates doing what they want them to when elected.

I say that you chose to do that because I made the same choice.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on August 03, 2012, 08:36:21 AM
Good to see the Ole south is changing.

Governor condemns Mississippi church's refusal to allow black couple to marry
Friday, August 03, 2012 - 08:22 AM

Mississippi's governor has described the refusal by a predominantly white church to allow a black couple to get married there as "unfortunate".

Phil Bryant said the state should encourage the union of any couple - as long as they were a man and a woman.

Charles and Te'Andrea Wilson say they were not allowed to marry at First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs, a small town south of Jackson, last month.

The Rev Stan Weatherford, pastor of the church, married the Wilsons at a predominantly black church nearby. The wedding was moved after some congregants at First Baptist told Mr Weatherford they opposed allowing black people to marry in the church.

"As hard as we work to try to convince the rest of the world that Mississippi has changed - and, in fact, we have - to see an unfortunate situation like that occur is very disappointing," Mr Bryant said.

The Republican governor spoke to reporters after a speech at the Neshoba County Fair, an annual gathering in the red clay hills of east central Mississippi.

Mr Bryant, who is Methodist, has campaigned throughout his career as a conservative who opposes same-sex marriage and abortions. He also has close ties to the Tupelo-based American Family Association, which boycotts corporations it believes are too friendly to gay rights.

He said the denial of a wedding for a black couple at a traditionally white church had "tainted" Mississippi's image nationwide.

"I'm sure there are very good people of Crystal Springs and in that Baptist church that don't feel that way and are supporting that effort," he said of the Wilsons' desire to marry in the church.

"Look, when people want to get married, we ought to let them get married. We have enough people that won't go and get married. I want to make every opportunity I can for any couple that wants to, to go get married."

But Mr Bryant said that did not apply to gay couples.

"I wouldn't say gay couples, no," he said. "I'd say a man and a woman. Let me make sure, let's get that right. When I say couples, I automatically assume it's a man and a woman."

In the November 2004 general election, 86% of Mississippi voters approved an amendment banning same-sex marriage. Mr Bryant, who was state auditor at the time, publicly supported the amendment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on August 03, 2012, 04:15:26 PM
Obviousy Christianity hasn't penetrated to Baptist Mississippi yet. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 28, 2012, 09:21:37 PM

Why is Paul Ryan, an Irish Catholic, praising the dogmas that drove the Great Hunger?

"In pushing for draconian cuts in Medicaid, food stamps and other programs that aid the needy, Mr. Ryan isn't just looking for ways to save money. He's also, quite explicitly, trying to make life harder for the poor — for their own good. In March, explaining his cuts in aid for the unfortunate, he declared, "'We don't want to turn the safety net into a hammock that lulls able-bodied people into lives of dependency and complacency, that drains them of their will and their incentive to make the most of their lives.'"

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/08/why-is-paul-ryan-an-irish-catholic-praising-the-dogmas-that-drove-the-great-hunger.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 29, 2012, 06:07:04 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 01, 2012, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: stew on August 01, 2012, 02:01:47 PM
but you make your choices and you live with them.

you chose to live under in the US with US elected officials, you chose to live in a town with high and increasing taxes, you chose to live in a country with an outdated immigration and economic policy. you chose to live in a country where the middle class will be taxed increasingly highly because their sway on elections is insignificant. You chose to live in a country where the education and healthcare for your family will take up an entirely unreasonable proportion of your expenses, because americans demand cheap gas, and don't realise that the US tax code is written by a congress that is entirely in the pocket of lobbyists who are not interested in the middle class or indeed the US economy, but rather protecting the wealth of those in charge of the corporations and associations who contribute nothing to the governments revenue. Those lobbyists are also the ones that decide who gets the nominations for election, and they sway those nominations on the likelihood of those candidates doing what they want them to when elected.

I say that you chose to do that because I made the same choice.

Did you come legally or better still, come legally from the get go?

I chose to come here because I was appalled at being a second class citizen on my own country, I came here to give my kids a shot at a life devoid of sectarianism and bigotry, I came here knowing we would take a big step backward but considered it worth it if it meant my children would have more opportunities open to them.

You don't know me or me you, so don't presume to know my motives for emigration.

I know it is not cool to think illegal immigration is wrong but the fact remains it is wrong, it is a burden on the country and every illegal immigrant should be forced to feck off back to were they came from and then apply for a working visa, regardless of race, color or creed.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 29, 2012, 06:12:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 28, 2012, 09:21:37 PM

Why is Paul Ryan, an Irish Catholic, praising the dogmas that drove the Great Hunger?

"In pushing for draconian cuts in Medicaid, food stamps and other programs that aid the needy, Mr. Ryan isn't just looking for ways to save money. He's also, quite explicitly, trying to make life harder for the poor — for their own good. In March, explaining his cuts in aid for the unfortunate, he declared, "'We don't want to turn the safety net into a hammock that lulls able-bodied people into lives of dependency and complacency, that drains them of their will and their incentive to make the most of their lives.'"

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/08/why-is-paul-ryan-an-irish-catholic-praising-the-dogmas-that-drove-the-great-hunger.html

There are plenty of people both here and in Ireland that could work but are too fecking lazy to, if they are able bodied and refuse to work why the feck should the taxpayer carry them?

If it was a case of a single mother or father for example that had young kids and it would be a hardship for him or her to leave them to go to work then the tax payer should pay for their unemployment/ food stamps etc.

If there is no jobs to be had obviously the same thing would apply but there are too many spongers over here and there are plenty of jobs about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theticklemister on August 29, 2012, 06:16:14 PM
Quote from: stew on August 29, 2012, 06:07:04 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 01, 2012, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: stew on August 01, 2012, 02:01:47 PM
but you make your choices and you live with them.

you chose to live under in the US with US elected officials, you chose to live in a town with high and increasing taxes, you chose to live in a country with an outdated immigration and economic policy. you chose to live in a country where the middle class will be taxed increasingly highly because their sway on elections is insignificant. You chose to live in a country where the education and healthcare for your family will take up an entirely unreasonable proportion of your expenses, because americans demand cheap gas, and don't realise that the US tax code is written by a congress that is entirely in the pocket of lobbyists who are not interested in the middle class or indeed the US economy, but rather protecting the wealth of those in charge of the corporations and associations who contribute nothing to the governments revenue. Those lobbyists are also the ones that decide who gets the nominations for election, and they sway those nominations on the likelihood of those candidates doing what they want them to when elected.

I say that you chose to do that because I made the same choice.

Did you come legally or better still, come legally from the get go?

I chose to come here because I was appalled at being a second class citizen on my own country, I came here to give my kids a shot at a life devoid of sectarianism and bigotry, I came here knowing we would take a big step backward but considered it worth it if it meant my children would have more opportunities open to them.

You don't know me or me you, so don't presume to know my motives for emigration.

I know it is not cool to think illegal immigration is wrong but the fact remains it is wrong, it is a burden on the country and every illegal immigrant should be forced to feck off back to were they came from and then apply for a working visa, regardless of race, color or creed.

Ah stuff the poor in the world just because they were born in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is there any a conscience in there stew??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 29, 2012, 06:22:27 PM
You think children of illegals who were bred from a young age in the US should be kicked out for something that is not their fault Stew?  Just shipped off to Mexico City or Guatemala city, basically foreign cities to them, when they're, apart from their parent's legal status, as American as your or my kids?  What about deportation were one parent is illegal and families are split? Seems very cruel to me, and is just one of a multitude of reasons I find the Republicans, a party that never stops going on about "family values", so objectionable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 30, 2012, 01:53:14 AM
Quote from: stew on August 29, 2012, 06:07:04 PM
Did you come legally or better still, come legally from the get go?

You don't know me or me you, so don't presume to know my motives for emigration.

I know it is not cool to think illegal immigration is wrong but the fact remains it is wrong, it is a burden on the country and every illegal immigrant should be forced to feck off back to were they came from and then apply for a working visa, regardless of race, color or creed.

Stew- I did come here legally- and from the get go, but I don't see that as being relevant. The fact is that the immigration policy that is in the US is absolutely horrible for the economy of the US. Not only do I not know your motives, quite frankly those are none of my concern nor are they relevant to my post. However by moving here from Ireland you chose to come here, its not something that's forced on you. If the situation at home necessitated your leaving, there are at least 205 other countries that you could have selected.

For me this was the best choice for me and my family in terms of opportunity. There are other places that have a political and economic system that I much prefer, unfortunately for my idealistic tendencies, none of those could come close to offering me the upside that was available to me in the US. So I made the choice that was best for me and my family, and in doing that I take the rough with the smooth. I do try and change opinions when I can, I can't vote here unless I decide to take citizenship, and despite my children being american, I haven't as yet seen a compelling argument to take the plunge.

So whilst I do appreciate your "send home the illegals" argument, the simple truth of the matter is that in the United States that is a facile argument and completely untenable. If you took a phased approach and presented a workable visa program with a route to permanent residence- if not citizenship and in the process opened the door to the immigrants from which the US actually would benefit then we could start making progress.

Whilst the equally failed tax system in the US is a big factor in many jobs going overseas, many firms are in the catch 22 of wanting to hire skilled people  for a job in the US. There aren't people in the US that have that skill set, at any price. So that leaves the only viable option of opening an office in an area where those people with that skill set can be found. That reduces the knowledge base and skill set in the US and also reduces the tax income received here.

QuoteI know it is not cool to think illegal immigration is wrong but the fact remains it is wrong, it is a burden on the country and every illegal immigrant should be forced to feck off back to were they came from and then apply for a working visa, regardless of race, color or creed.

First up Im not sure exactly what you're saying is wrong, however the burden on the country part is nonsense. Well, in as much as it is a burden on any country to have citizens or legal immigrants. The illegal immigrants in the US contribute more to the US economy than it costs to have them here. In fact if you were to actually try to get them to "report and deport" tomorrow the economy of a significant number of states in the Union would shut down overnight.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on August 30, 2012, 08:19:05 AM
You just gotta love them Republicans ???

TAMPA, Fla. — It was about halfway through the speech given by Mary Fallin, by the grace of a pitiless god the governor of Oklahoma, where I finally came close to losing it. She rolled herself into this remarkable passage:
The history of my great state of Oklahoma offers a great example of pursuing the American Dream. It was built and settled by pioneers movibe west to seek better lives. During the Great Land Run of 1889, thousands of families rushed to put a stake down on empty plots of land. They built tent cities overnight. They farmed the land and they worked hard. And, in 1897, eight years after the land run, a handful of adventurous pioneers risked their own money — not the federal government's money — to drill Oklahoma's first oil well, the Nellie Johnstone. By doing so, these early-day pioneers changed the future and Oklahoma forever and today Oklahoma is one of the nation's key energy producers and job creators. President Obama wants us to believe that Oklahomans owe that success to the federal government — to the Department Of Energy,to the EPA, to the IRS, or maybe even to him. Mr. President, we know better. As we say in Oklahoma, that dog won't hunt.
Handed in as a seventh-grade history essay, this would get no better than a D. Delivered to the convention of one of our only two political parties, it was perhaps the most singularly dishonest speech I have ever seen a politician give, and I grew up in Massachusetts, and Willard Romney was once my governor. My god, Oklahomans wouldn't even have Oklahoma without the federal government, without the Homestead Act of 1889 or the Railroad Act — both, by the way, achievements of a Republican presidents named Abraham Lincoln and Benjamin Harrison. And the land wasn't exactly "empty," Governor. It got emptied by a big-government program called the United States Army. You know what your state would be without the federal government, Governor, without the votes for the legislation from congressmen from the east and north, without the soldiers from New England and the Great Lakes? You know what Oklahoma would be?
Sand, with a whole lot of pissed-off Native Americans.
I'm not sure if it will be played this way. Ann Romney was sweet and lovely — and very defensive about people "attacking" hubby's success, but only as a "mom," of course — and Chris Christie brought down the house. But the Republican Party did something remarkable at its convention on Tuesday. It set out on an experiment to see exactly how much unmitigated hogwash the American political system can contain on a single evening. The Republican Party has set out at its 2012 convention in search of the Event Horizon of utter bullshit. It has sought to see precisely how many lies, evasions, elisions, and undigestible chunks of utter gobbledegook the political media can swallow before it finally gags twice and falls over dead, leaving the rest of America suckers all the same. What you didn't see in primetime, from Arthur Davis to Ted Cruz, and from one 2016 contender to another, was the GOP embarking upon the task of seeing exactly how much nonsense it could produce at top volume before democracy screams and gives up, like Noriega in Panama when they played the metal music at him.
It was something to see, I'll tell you. An entire evening based on a demonstrable lie.
The theme was We Did Build It — which, as every sentient being knows, is a mendacious barbering of something the president said a while back. (On the video screens in the hall, television commercials based on a severely edited version of the president's remarks were interspersed between the speeches, just in case somebody sought relief from the lies for a couple of seconds.) And there also was a lot of talk about how the various speakers Did Build It.
There was Jack Gilchrist from New Hampshire, the metal-shop owner, who was briefly an important Romney surrogate until it was revealed that his company took a few cool millions in small-business loans. There was Sher Valenzuela, running for lieutenant governor of Delaware, who talked about how she and her husband Did Build their business. She also talked about her husband, who was a soldier, and her father, the former drill sergeant and "a blue-collar union guy." She did not talk about her sideline, which is giving PowerPoint presentations to people — probably, I am sure, not in convention centers built with tax dollars — on how to suck up government contracts. There was a similar thing going on with Bob McDonnell, the slippery, up-and-coming transvaginalist of Virginia, who proved that his family Did Build It, by having his father join the army, his children doing the same, and himself, finding the "same job" in government once held by Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry. After listening to this laughable bafflegab for a spell, you begin to wonder whether or not the U.S. military is a rather large venture-capital concern with anti-tank weapons.
It was an entire evening based on a demonstrable lie. It was an entire evening based on demonstrable lies told in service to the overriding demonstrable lie. And there was only one real story for actual journalists to tell at the end of it.
The Republicans simply don't care.
They don't care that they lie. They don't care that their lies are obvious. They don't care that their lies wouldn't fool an underpaid substitute Social Studies teacher in a public middle school, who would then probably go out one night and get yelled at by Chris Christie. ("They believe in teacher's unions. We believe in teachers," he said in his speech. Yeah, you just don't believe in paying them.) They don't care that their history is a lie and that, by spreading it, they devalue the actual history of the country, which is something that belongs to us.
Did Ted Cruz really quote Martin King in this hall? Did Artur Davis, the newly minted Republican turncoat from Alabama, just cite Jack Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and Lyndon Fking Johnson as examples of "leaders" who "reached across the aisle"? Lyndon reached across the aisle? Yeah, he did, and he grabbed their peckers and put them in his pocket, and he didn't give them back until the skinflint bastards coughed up Medicare. Jesus, this was pathetic. They don't care that they lie so obviously that they always get caught, like they did with the evening's entire theme, like they have in and around the Tampa Bay Times Forum, or with the story of poor Jack Gilchrist. The Republicans will just tell the lie again. And again. And once more, until people get tired of telling the truth in response.
It was an entire evening based on a demonstrable lie because it was an entire evening based on rejecting — publicly and dishonestly, and without caring that the facts of your own biographies give the lie to the words you're saying — the idea of a general political commonwealth as expressed through the national government, which has been the great engine behind the expansion of the country's size, the country's wealth, and, yes, the country's freedom. It was a purchase in that political commonwealth, and not in a loose confederation of states, that King sought, and that Lyndon sought to give the country's poorest citizens, including the vote, which the government of John Kasich in Ohio is presently working assiduously to roll back.
It was an entire evening based on a demonstrable lie, and it was topped off by a demonstrable liar named Chris Christie, who talked about how the president can't lead, and that nobody wants to tell the Americans the truth of the sacrifices we have to share, and talked about "politicians who pander" at a convention that is preparing to nominate Willard Romney, which was the final hilarious lie of the night, since Romney hasn't stopped pandering since he walked down the steps of the Massachusetts State House in 2006.
Earlier, though, Christie rang the theme of the evening's overriding demonstrable lie, too. He talked about how his family Built It, his Irish father and his Sicilian mother.
They both lived hard lives. Dad grew up in poverty. After returning from Army service, he worked at the Breyer's ice-cream plant in the 1950's. With that job, and the GI Bill, he put himself through Rutgers University at night to become the first in his family to earn a college degree.
Chris, old man, you didn't even build yourself yourself. The tax dollars — the federal tax dollars — of, among other people, my parents paid your father's Army salary, and they paid for the G.I. Bill. The tax dollars of thousands of other people paid for his education at Rutgers, which is, as it proclaims, The State University Of New Jersey. All of them were proud to do it, because they knew that they were part of a political commonwealth that has as its proudest expression a national government in which all citizens have purchase.
And, Chris, and Bob, and Sher, and Jack, and all of you, you're welcome.
Liars.


Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/rnc-tampa-night-one-12158408#ixzz250lpTc8A
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on August 30, 2012, 10:44:48 AM
Thanks for that, Declan. I like his style.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on August 30, 2012, 08:20:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 30, 2012, 01:53:14 AM
Quote from: stew on August 29, 2012, 06:07:04 PM
Did you come legally or better still, come legally from the get go?

You don't know me or me you, so don't presume to know my motives for emigration.

I know it is not cool to think illegal immigration is wrong but the fact remains it is wrong, it is a burden on the country and every illegal immigrant should be forced to feck off back to were they came from and then apply for a working visa, regardless of race, color or creed.

Stew- I did come here legally- and from the get go, but I don't see that as being relevant. The fact is that the immigration policy that is in the US is absolutely horrible for the economy of the US. Not only do I not know your motives, quite frankly those are none of my concern nor are they relevant to my post. However by moving here from Ireland you chose to come here, its not something that's forced on you. If the situation at home necessitated your leaving, there are at least 205 other countries that you could have selected.

For me this was the best choice for me and my family in terms of opportunity. There are other places that have a political and economic system that I much prefer, unfortunately for my idealistic tendencies, none of those could come close to offering me the upside that was available to me in the US. So I made the choice that was best for me and my family, and in doing that I take the rough with the smooth. I do try and change opinions when I can, I can't vote here unless I decide to take citizenship, and despite my children being american, I haven't as yet seen a compelling argument to take the plunge.

So whilst I do appreciate your "send home the illegals" argument, the simple truth of the matter is that in the United States that is a facile argument and completely untenable. If you took a phased approach and presented a workable visa program with a route to permanent residence- if not citizenship and in the process opened the door to the immigrants from which the US actually would benefit then we could start making progress.

Whilst the equally failed tax system in the US is a big factor in many jobs going overseas, many firms are in the catch 22 of wanting to hire skilled people  for a job in the US. There aren't people in the US that have that skill set, at any price. So that leaves the only viable option of opening an office in an area where those people with that skill set can be found. That reduces the knowledge base and skill set in the US and also reduces the tax income received here.

QuoteI know it is not cool to think illegal immigration is wrong but the fact remains it is wrong, it is a burden on the country and every illegal immigrant should be forced to feck off back to were they came from and then apply for a working visa, regardless of race, color or creed.

First up Im not sure exactly what you're saying is wrong, however the burden on the country part is nonsense. Well, in as much as it is a burden on any country to have citizens or legal immigrants. The illegal immigrants in the US contribute more to the US economy than it costs to have them here. In fact if you were to actually try to get them to "report and deport" tomorrow the economy of a significant number of states in the Union would shut down overnight.
Well said Heganboy. Stew your posts are bordering on self righteous. I wonder what you would have done had you not had an American Wife to gain legal entry to the country? A step back to come to America? How was it a step back? I find that very critical of your own Wife and her heritage and country to say moving there was a step back from Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 30, 2012, 08:29:33 PM
And to follow up on the Esquire article, on Wednesday night Paul Ryan talked about how they are going to repeal Obamacare, because it is government healthcare, but want to save and protect and improve Medicare, which is of course government healthcare.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 30, 2012, 08:34:39 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 30, 2012, 01:53:14 AM

I do try and change opinions when I can, I can't vote here unless I decide to take citizenship, and despite my children being american, I haven't as yet seen a compelling argument to take the plunge.


Shorter lines through immigration. Show the US passport when landing here and the Irish one when you are going home :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 30, 2012, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: dec on August 30, 2012, 08:34:39 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 30, 2012, 01:53:14 AM

Shorter lines through immigration. Show the US passport when landing here and the Irish one when you are going home :)

No lines- Global entry is the way forward
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 02, 2012, 02:55:56 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 30, 2012, 08:20:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 30, 2012, 01:53:14 AM
Quote from: stew on August 29, 2012, 06:07:04 PM
Did you come legally or better still, come legally from the get go?

You don't know me or me you, so don't presume to know my motives for emigration.

I know it is not cool to think illegal immigration is wrong but the fact remains it is wrong, it is a burden on the country and every illegal immigrant should be forced to feck off back to were they came from and then apply for a working visa, regardless of race, color or creed.

Stew- I did come here legally- and from the get go, but I don't see that as being relevant. The fact is that the immigration policy that is in the US is absolutely horrible for the economy of the US. Not only do I not know your motives, quite frankly those are none of my concern nor are they relevant to my post. However by moving here from Ireland you chose to come here, its not something that's forced on you. If the situation at home necessitated your leaving, there are at least 205 other countries that you could have selected.

For me this was the best choice for me and my family in terms of opportunity. There are other places that have a political and economic system that I much prefer, unfortunately for my idealistic tendencies, none of those could come close to offering me the upside that was available to me in the US. So I made the choice that was best for me and my family, and in doing that I take the rough with the smooth. I do try and change opinions when I can, I can't vote here unless I decide to take citizenship, and despite my children being american, I haven't as yet seen a compelling argument to take the plunge.

So whilst I do appreciate your "send home the illegals" argument, the simple truth of the matter is that in the United States that is a facile argument and completely untenable. If you took a phased approach and presented a workable visa program with a route to permanent residence- if not citizenship and in the process opened the door to the immigrants from which the US actually would benefit then we could start making progress.

Whilst the equally failed tax system in the US is a big factor in many jobs going overseas, many firms are in the catch 22 of wanting to hire skilled people  for a job in the US. There aren't people in the US that have that skill set, at any price. So that leaves the only viable option of opening an office in an area where those people with that skill set can be found. That reduces the knowledge base and skill set in the US and also reduces the tax income received here.

QuoteI know it is not cool to think illegal immigration is wrong but the fact remains it is wrong, it is a burden on the country and every illegal immigrant should be forced to feck off back to were they came from and then apply for a working visa, regardless of race, color or creed.

First up Im not sure exactly what you're saying is wrong, however the burden on the country part is nonsense. Well, in as much as it is a burden on any country to have citizens or legal immigrants. The illegal immigrants in the US contribute more to the US economy than it costs to have them here. In fact if you were to actually try to get them to "report and deport" tomorrow the economy of a significant number of states in the Union would shut down overnight.
Well said Heganboy. Stew your posts are bordering on self righteous. I wonder what you would have done had you not had an American Wife to gain legal entry to the country? A step back to come to America? How was it a step back? I find that very critical of your own Wife and her heritage and country to say moving there was a step back from Ireland.

I would have stayed put and not entered a country that I had no business being in, that is what I would have done.

I am hardly critical of my own wife and her heritage, she was reared in Newry from the age of two and I meant a step back from a financial perspective and only a financial perspective.

Why is it that you lot are perfectly fine with people entering the US illegally? are you as gung ho when it comes to say Nigerians or Chinese entering Ireland?

I get what they are trying to do in Arizona but they are going about it the wrong way, and Ireland would be a lot better off without having to keep giving handouts to illegals in our own country!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 02, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
It is very difficult to obtain legal status in America post 9/11. Even for boys like me who came in the right way.  You would be the frst Irish man I have heard of in these parts that doesn't sympathize with other immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves in this or any country. There isn't much to go back to for many of the illegals here and elsewhere. Not too many would have been as financially well off as you would lead us to believe you were in Armagh. Maybe you were relying on your wife's income for such a grand status but over here you get paid much more for your time than any job I ever done at home in Ireland.

For a traveled man you have a very narrow view of people and the world....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: cuconnacht on September 05, 2012, 06:23:32 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 02, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
It is very difficult to obtain legal status in America post 9/11. Even for boys like me who came in the right way.  You would be the frst Irish man I have heard of in these parts that doesn't sympathize with other immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves in this or any country. There isn't much to go back to for many of the illegals here and elsewhere. Not too many would have been as financially well off as you would lead us to believe you were in Armagh. Maybe you were relying on your wife's income for such a grand status but over here you get paid much more for your time than any job I ever done at home in Ireland.

For a traveled man you have a very narrow view of people and the world....
+1.you hit it right on the head there Iceman.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on September 05, 2012, 08:34:47 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 02, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
  You would be the frst Irish man I have heard of in these parts that doesn't sympathize with other immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves in this or any country.

I think you mean "irish immigrants" here - ive heard plenty of irish men in ireland who have zero sympathy for the immigrants from other countries in ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 05, 2012, 02:50:29 PM
Quote from: nifan on September 05, 2012, 08:34:47 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 02, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
  You would be the frst Irish man I have heard of in these parts that doesn't sympathize with other immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves in this or any country.

I think you mean "irish immigrants" here - ive heard plenty of irish men in ireland who have zero sympathy for the immigrants from other countries in ireland.
Yes and no. I finished the sentence with "in these parts" meaning America...but ye get my drift....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 04:08:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 30, 2012, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: dec on August 30, 2012, 08:34:39 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 30, 2012, 01:53:14 AM

Shorter lines through immigration. Show the US passport when landing here and the Irish one when you are going home :)

No lines- Global entry is the way forward

Is it fcuk!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 04:24:01 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 02, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
It is very difficult to obtain legal status in America post 9/11. Even for boys like me who came in the right way.  You would be the frst Irish man I have heard of in these parts that doesn't sympathize with other immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves in this or any country. There isn't much to go back to for many of the illegals here and elsewhere. Not too many would have been as financially well off as you would lead us to believe you were in Armagh. Maybe you were relying on your wife's income for such a grand status but over here you get paid much more for your time than any job I ever done at home in Ireland.

For a traveled man you have a very narrow view of people and the world....

I am all for immigrants making better lives for themselves, I just don't like hypocrites like you who let slide the fact that people go live in countries that they have no legal right to be in, that it for me really.

I owned my own business in Warrenpoint, not Armagh and yes the wife did well so maybe you have no f**king clue what you are talking about, grand status my arse, we did well, we worked hard and we were glad to have to opportunity to work hard, end of.

In my best years here I just about drew even with my best years in Ireland so from my perspective we are worse off, that is ok because the kids have thrived and the weather, for eight months of the year is tremendous.

Your last line is a cop out hypocrite, I am fairly well traveled fair enough but I do not have a narrow view of people and the world, I simply respect the rule of law in the Country I live in, I live within the confines of said law and I think it is hypocritical for the likes of you to cherry pick which laws you should follow.

I have two sisters that went about coming here the wrong way and I say the same thing to them, wrong is wrong and don't hide behind people making better lives for themselves, if they cannot do it the right way or they don't need to come here due to political persecution then they should stay were they are and apply like every other legal immigrant!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
Like many things, I'm not well versed in the small print.

Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay?

I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

I have no real opinions on the immigration issue, even after the huge role it has played in my life. If you come illegal, and you get fucked - there's to be no crying about it. That is the chance you take. If you come illegal and live happily ever after, fair play. I came legal and was faced with the very real possibility of having to leave my child and return home, even after 7 years of legality and playing by the book. Thankfully it did not come to that.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.

Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 04:38:50 PM
Quote from: nifan on September 05, 2012, 08:34:47 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 02, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
  You would be the frst Irish man I have heard of in these parts that doesn't sympathize with other immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves in this or any country.

I think you mean "Irish immigrants" here - i've heard plenty of Irish men in Ireland who have zero sympathy for the immigrants from other countries in Ireland.

Here here nifan.

I have heard many Irish liberals who refer to people who emigrated to Ireland as chinks, niggers, lithos, spicks and sand niggers to name a few, yet when I asked them about the illegal Irish in America they were strangely ok with this, disgusting in the extreme but predictable.

I wonder if the iceman and his hypocritical liberal cohorts have ever uttered such degrading, disgusting terminologies about the people not from Ireland, living in Ireland? therein lies the hypocrisy!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:40:41 PM
Hold on a cotton picking minute Stew! I am a liberal cohort, and AFAIK - The iceman would be pretty far removed from the liberal stereotype..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 05, 2012, 04:45:26 PM
That's not what I am saying Puck at all. I just have sympathy for genuine lads and ladies caught or stuck in no mans land. I was fortunate to be able to come here legally, I didn't have a situation like yours but it was a difficult process all the same to get the 10 year green card. There is a long tradition of Irish men and women coming to this country and it was a lot easier to come and legally obtain status 15-20 years ago than it is today. I am not saying it is right or wrong but I can have sympathy for the folks in no mans land. I called Stew out for having none at all.
I'm sure Stew is happy to eat his big steak at the weekend cooked by an Illegal worker and served by an illegal worker, have his table cleaned up after by an illegal worker.... Get the garden done by illegal workers...the list goes on. Or are you All American all the way?
Stew you just seem very bitter about it all. Angry at America, angry about the politics, angry about a lot of things in general really.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 05, 2012, 04:47:20 PM
and for the record I am very open to any race creed or colour living and working in Armagh or anywhere else in Ireland. I have travelled the world and people are people wherever you go - good and bad. In fact as a result of my own situation my Dad would go out of his way in his job and outside of work to help some local immigrants who have moved in to our townland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:07:26 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
Like many things, I'm not well versed in the small print.

Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay?

I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

I have no real opinions on the immigration issue, even after the huge role it has played in my life. If you come illegal, and you get fucked - there's to be no crying about it. That is the chance you take. If you come illegal and live happily ever after, fair play. I came legal and was faced with the very real possibility of having to leave my child and return home, even after 7 years of legality and playing by the book. Thankfully it did not come to that.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.

Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Well said Puck!

I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 05, 2012, 05:15:01 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:07:26 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
Like many things, I'm not well versed in the small print.

Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay?

I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

I have no real opinions on the immigration issue, even after the huge role it has played in my life. If you come illegal, and you get fucked - there's to be no crying about it. That is the chance you take. If you come illegal and live happily ever after, fair play. I came legal and was faced with the very real possibility of having to leave my child and return home, even after 7 years of legality and playing by the book. Thankfully it did not come to that.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.

Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Well said Puck!

I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!

It's a venial sin rather than a mortal sin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:27:51 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 05, 2012, 04:45:26 PM
That's not what I am saying Puck at all. I just have sympathy for genuine lads and ladies caught or stuck in no mans land. I was fortunate to be able to come here legally, I didn't have a situation like yours but it was a difficult process all the same to get the 10 year green card. There is a long tradition of Irish men and women coming to this country and it was a lot easier to come and legally obtain status 15-20 years ago than it is today. I am not saying it is right or wrong but I can have sympathy for the folks in no mans land. I called Stew out for having none at all.
I'm sure Stew is happy to eat his big steak at the weekend cooked by an Illegal worker and served by an illegal worker, have his table cleaned up after by an illegal worker.... Get the garden done by illegal workers...the list goes on. Or are you All American all the way?
Stew you just seem very bitter about it all. Angry at America, angry about the politics, angry about a lot of things in general really.

I cook my own steaks, the garden is tended by me and the wife and I would never, ever hire an illegal worker for anything, I clean my own table and I am far from bitter.

"No mans land" they f**king did that to themselves you eejit. I have no sympathy for them, they chose to do the wrong thing and they have to be responsible for their actions do they not????

I have disgust at what the liberals have done to this country, I have disgust at what Bush did to this country and I hope to God this country finally gets a leader of the ability of Clinton to bring fiscal responsibility to the USA again.

Iceman? "I am not saying it is right or wrong" really, is that the best you can do? it is wrong to enter anywhere illegally is it not????

I am not bitter at all, I have strong opinions on illegal immigrants the globe over, the illegal Nigerians, eastern Europeans, Chinese etc in Ireland should be fecked out on their holes, as should the illegal Irish, Mexicans and all other illegal immigrant in the states, it's simple really, if you have no right to be in a place you should be fcuked back to wherever you came from.

Iceman, you are the hypocrite here, not me, I don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me, I dont socialize with illegals, I pay my taxes and I hope they get deported, why should I help them on their way to giving nothing and taking everything, answer me that.

Obama has been a disaster like W before him, the republicans have chosen another idiot to run against Obamanation and this country...................no matter what happens is clean fcuked for another four years. :'(

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:31:23 PM
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2012, 05:15:01 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:07:26 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
Like many things, I'm not well versed in the small print.

Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay?

I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

I have no real opinions on the immigration issue, even after the huge role it has played in my life. If you come illegal, and you get fucked - there's to be no crying about it. That is the chance you take. If you come illegal and live happily ever after, fair play. I came legal and was faced with the very real possibility of having to leave my child and return home, even after 7 years of legality and playing by the book. Thankfully it did not come to that.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.

Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Well said Puck!

I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!

It's a venial sin rather than a mortal sin.

So you are saying it is slighty wrong then? ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 05, 2012, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:27:51 PMI don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me

Perhaps not directly, but if you have eaten at many restaurants or eaten food that was harvested or processed in the United States then you have benefited from illegal immigrants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2012, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:27:51 PMI don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me

Perhaps not directly, but if you have eaten at many restaurants or eaten food that was harvested or processed in the United States then you have benefited from illegal immigrants.

That is one hell of a stretch, I can hardly be expected to know who harvested the food in front of me now can I?

There are millions on top of millions of them here and I would say far from benefiting from them they cost me money because they get to work and get to pay fcuk all in taxes and that is wrong?

Answer this decco, is it right or wrong that illegal immigrants get to work and pay no taxes? please do not avoid the question this time, a simple yea or nea will do!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 05, 2012, 05:43:23 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2012, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:27:51 PMI don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me

Perhaps not directly, but if you have eaten at many restaurants or eaten food that was harvested or processed in the United States then you have benefited from illegal immigrants.

That is one hell of a stretch, I can hardly be expected to know who harvested the food in front of me now can I?

There are millions on top of millions of them here and I would say far from benefiting from them they cost me money because they get to work and get to pay fcuk all in taxes and that is wrong?

Answer this decco, is it right or wrong that illegal immigrants get to work and pay no taxes? please do not avoid the question this time, a simple yea or nea will do!

I agree that it is wrong for employers to avoid paying taxes they owe by employing illegal immigrants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 05, 2012, 05:54:42 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM


Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay




yes- about 6 million workers pay taxes despite not being legal residents- thats about 65-75% according to the Congressional Budget Office, and yes they benefit from it.
Yes- Indirectly. They have access to cell phones, roads , schools, police patrol their neghborhoods, and the US Army protects their homes from invasion. However they are not eligible for direct financial assistance or social security. Also the illegal immigrants working here keep prices low on food and building. Economists agree that it has a net positive effect on the US economy, though there is debate on the amount.


Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.


100% correct Puck, it is bloody hard and expensive to remain int he US legally without having wife or family (not kids) that are US citizens. To your point though, I can't imagine a high percentage of folks that would like to stay legally can afford ito do so

Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Difficult and impossible are different things. Although it was difficult for you Puck, it was possible, a smart immigration program in the US would make it possible for those that want it badly enough to get here and stay here legally, without the over the shoulder issue. I am not qualified to speak to individual cases, but I will happily call the existing policy bullshit.

In addition to that outrageous fear mongering of immigrants and immigrations in of all places the US (where 98.8% of the poplulation are immigrants or their descendants) is a disgrace to the entire nation.
Quote
I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!

Stew, dont know who you mean by "these boys" and there is a long list of things that are illegal and very defensible...
My position is very clear- that the immigration policy in the US is a complete crock, and that it is killing the US economy.

Yes it is right to be in a country illegally- how do you like them apples...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 06:05:01 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 05, 2012, 05:54:42 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM


Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay




yes- about 6 million workers pay taxes despite not being legal residents- thats about 65-75% according to the Congressional Budget Office, and yes they benefit from it.
Yes- Indirectly. They have access to cell phones, roads , schools, police patrol their neghborhoods, and the US Army protects their homes from invasion. However they are not eligible for direct financial assistance or social security. Also the illegal immigrants working here keep prices low on food and building. Economists agree that it has a net positive effect on the US economy, though there is debate on the amount.


Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.


100% correct Puck, it is bloody hard and expensive to remain int he US legally without having wife or family (not kids) that are US citizens. To your point though, I can't imagine a high percentage of folks that would like to stay legally can afford ito do so

Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Difficult and impossible are different things. Although it was difficult for you Puck, it was possible, a smart immigration program in the US would make it possible for those that want it badly enough to get here and stay here legally, without the over the shoulder issue. I am not qualified to speak to individual cases, but I will happily call the existing policy bullshit.

In addition to that outrageous fear mongering of immigrants and immigrations in of all places the US (where 98.8% of the poplulation are immigrants or their descendants) is a disgrace to the entire nation.
Quote
I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!

Stew, dont know who you mean by "these boys" and there is a long list of things that are illegal and very defensible...
My position is very clear- that the immigration policy in the US is a complete crock, and that it is killing the US economy.

Yes it is right to be in a country illegally- how do you like them apples...

Zinger, wow............................ I am impressed, you act like I am to be shocked at your response, not at all son, I am surprised it took you this long to let your opinion known, but at least you manned up unlike deco an co and gave me your warped, hypocritical opinion.

It is wrong to be be in any country illegally, how can you possibly justify your inane answer?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 06:13:26 PM
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2012, 05:43:23 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2012, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:27:51 PMI don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me

Perhaps not directly, but if you have eaten at many restaurants or eaten food that was harvested or processed in the United States then you have benefited from illegal immigrants.

That is one hell of a stretch, I can hardly be expected to know who harvested the food in front of me now can I?

There are millions on top of millions of them here and I would say far from benefiting from them they cost me money because they get to work and get to pay fcuk all in taxes and that is wrong?

Answer this decco, is it right or wrong that illegal immigrants get to work and pay no taxes? please do not avoid the question this time, a simple yea or nea will do!

I agree that it is wrong for employers to avoid paying taxes they owe by employing illegal immigrants.


Weally decco? Wot about the workers whemselves decco, should they pay taxes you wuss?

Decco thinks the economy should tax the big bad business owners, not the illegal workers, sign me up baby, I will work shovelling shite in deccos world as long as I am free from paying my fair share, typical mickey mouse attitude lad, decco, you are officially the poster child for the illegal immigration hypocrisy movement, keep em coming son.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: dec on August 30, 2012, 08:29:33 PM
And to follow up on the Esquire article, on Wednesday night Paul Ryan talked about how they are going to repeal Obamacare, because it is government healthcare, but want to save and protect and improve Medicare, which is of course government healthcare.

they are going to repeal it because it would cripple the economy and Obama himself couldn't even explain it, none of them could, it is a complete farce.

Here is a great general rule of thumb for you screaming liberals on here, if that cnut Nancy Pelosi is involved in any bill ever in the history of the rest of her life, throw it in a furnace and forget about it, she is a horror story and is a big part of the reason this President is as bad as he actually is, she is a nightmare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 06:20:02 PM
Reading back through this thread makes for sad reading, I am done with this thread, I am the bad guy for believeing people should follow the law, the liberals, for the most part disagree, fair enough but there is no point to this thread anymore.

Decco, keep em coming son, you da man! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 05, 2012, 06:30:39 PM
Stew you say you're not bitter but you have come out with a litany of insults and name calling. You're an angry wee man.
I think it's illegal but it doesnt mean I can't have sympathy for the lads stuck in the middle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 05, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
Stew,
Sorry to hear that you won't engage here. I think your view on immigration is far too black and white. There are grey areas. There are many many cases when it is in my opinion morally right to be in a country illegally. Any country.

I don't believe my view is warped or hypocritical and I would love to hear why you think it is.

Your view on tax is also odd to me. Should big business be taxed? Absolutely! Want to go check what percentage the biggest earning companies in the US pay in tax, and let me know if you think that number is good for the US economy, or if that supports the trickle down regeneration of the economy being peddled by politicians.

Also your assertion on "obamacare" crippling the economy? Where do you get your information? I see like myself you don't really fancy either party in the US right now, Paul Ryan's mythical budget plan and Mitt Romneys assertions of what he will do in office will hugely increase the deficit here. And actually cripple the middle class here in the US, and in turn make the climb out of his current shitty economy even more unlikely in the short term.

And your data on illegals paying tax is wrong, they are a significant net payer to the US thereby reducing your tax bill

Healthy debate is a good thing, mud slinging helps no one. Be good to have you back...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theticklemister on September 05, 2012, 07:01:19 PM
I dunno about the rest of ye there but I see these 'illlegals' as part of the human race and I treat everyone the same, no matter race or creed. They would not be coming over to these countries if they did not have such a poor life in the country of their birth. Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself.
We are blessed to be born here in such a place where the standard of living is good and have a brighter life ahead of us compared to other unfortunate souls.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 07:06:33 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:27:51 PM
I pay my taxes and I hope they get deported, why should I help them on their way to giving nothing and taking everything, answer me that.

Illegals in America do harder work in a day than you'll do in a year.  They pay taxes in the form of payroll taxes and sales taxes on everything they buy.  If it wasn't for them you'd have to add about 10% to the cost of all the food you buy (because white people in America consider picking food out of the fields to be beneath them) and you wouldn't have the option of staying in hotel rooms at such affordable prices.

This idea that people flood into America for the "generous" welfare system is nothing short of a racist myth. In case you hadn't noticed, America has the most porous social safety net in the developed world. People come to America to work because of the opportunity that it offers anyone willing to work for a better life.

It's all right saying that illegals should be "just" deported, but unless you can think of an efficient enough system that's going to process 10 million people (and build an impregnable iron curtain across the USA's 1,969 mile southern border) without bankrupting the state, I'm afraid that's just not going to happen.

Is it "wrong" to enter a country illegally?  "Wrong" is a point of view.  In my book, something is "wrong" if it causes harm.  Smoking pot is illegal, but nobody in their right mind thinks it causes any more harm than the perfectly legal activity of drinking alcohol.  Just because something is illegal doesn't make it harmful.

And you know what else I find interesting? The people who scream the loudest about the evils of undocumented immigrants are usually the same people who worship at the altar of the free market.  A free market usually entails the free movement of goods and labour like they have in the EU.  According to them, supply and demand should determine the cost of goods and labour.  And yet here we have a large number of people willing to move where the work is and work for competitive wages, resulting in higher profits for employers and lower costs for consumers.  Illegal immigration is a libertarian's wet dream.  A de-regulated, non-unionised, low-wage workforce willing to work for a pittance is something that conservatives have been fighting for for years. And along comes a de-regulated, non-unionised, low-wage workforce willing to work for a pittance, but they happen to have dark skin and don't speak English! All traditional conservative free market principles go out the window all of a sudden. Ever notice that?

The people who scream the loudest about the evils of illegal immigration are the same people who hate the federal government interfering in people's lives, and here they are demanding the the federal government step in and interfere in this free market of labour.  Nice consistency there, conservatives.

Let's face it, folks. There are plenty of laws that get broken day after day, and conservatives don't usually give a toss about many of them (particularly white collar thievery).  But when it comes to a completely arbitrary law about paperwork that involves dark-skinned people entering white territory in big numbers, suddenly the enforcement of this law and the proper procedure for complying with bureaucratic requirements becomes a top priority, and conservatives get themselves worked up into gun-toting hysteria over it.  We all know what's really going on. We all know what this is really about, and it's not about a sudden devotion to complying with the regulations set down by the federal government.

It's all about the George Zimmerman doctrine. "I think the black guy's up to no good."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 07:08:21 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 05, 2012, 07:01:19 PM
I dunno about the rest of ye there but I see these 'illlegals' as part of the human race and I treat everyone the same, no matter race or creed. They would not be coming over to these countries if they did not have such a poor life in the country of their birth. Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself.
We are blessed to be born here in such a place where the standard of living is good and have a brighter life ahead of us compared to other unfortunate souls.

Ok, I am going to respond to the above post and heganboy.

Nobody see's these illegal people as less than human or less than equal to us on here, not one of us.

They come to the US in their droves from Ireland, they come illegally and the standard of liv ing is already good as you say, how do you justify that?

We also treat everyone the same, why wouldnt we?

Strange post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 07:08:48 PM
(http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms//5-10-11bud-f1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theticklemister on September 05, 2012, 07:20:15 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 07:08:21 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 05, 2012, 07:01:19 PM
I dunno about the rest of ye there but I see these 'illlegals' as part of the human race and I treat everyone the same, no matter race or creed. They would not be coming over to these countries if they did not have such a poor life in the country of their birth. Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself.
We are blessed to be born here in such a place where the standard of living is good and have a brighter life ahead of us compared to other unfortunate souls.

Ok, I am going to respond to the above post and heganboy.

Nobody see's these illegal people as less than human or less than equal to us on here, not one of us.

They come to the US in their droves from Ireland, they come illegally and the standard of liv ing is already good as you say, how do you justify that?

We also treat everyone the same, why wouldnt we?

Strange post.

In one of yer posts earlier you stated ' I wouldn't socialise with illegals' a bit like the parable of the leper...... (On the phonephone here and couldn't be arsed to quote, but will do when I hit a desktop)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 07:51:53 PM
I find it sad that Irishmen can't debate the real issues of American politics without stopping to the media driven spin and name calling that pollutes the discourse over here. Just because a man does not personally agree with illegal immigration (the key is in the illegal part) does not make him a white collar conservative in a fit of gun toting hysteria. Similarly - just because a man feels genuine sympathy for illegal immigrants in trouble, or thinking that they have to leave their homes - doesn't make him a bleeding heart liberal. I'd ask you all to wind your necks in with the insulting tagging - maybe take a leaf out of HB's book and see how posting, while addressing the issues and easing up on the insults can be done.

American politics is ruined by Americans.

EDIT: By the way, we are all hypocrites - despite our best intentions. There are very few Ghandis out there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 05, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
Stew,
Sorry to hear that you won't engage here. I think your view on immigration is far too black and white. There are grey areas. There are many many cases when it is in my opinion morally right to be in a country illegally. Any country.

You deserve a response, here it is!

I don't believe my view is warped or hypocritical and I would love to hear why you think it is.

You see shades of grey when  there are none, people that come into a country illegally are wrong, no shades of grey, they are not welcome and they are a drain on the economy and they have no right to be here, you seem to be a decent sort but yet you condone keeping non tax paying illegals around, no doubt you have friends that are illegal near you and that could warp your perspective, that aside this shades of grey shite sickens me when it comes down to a yes or no answer, it is not ok to enter a country illegally.

Your view on tax is also odd to me. Should big business be taxed? Absolutely! Want to go check what percentage the biggest earning companies in the US pay in tax, and let me know if you think that number is good for the US economy, or if that supports the trickle down regeneration of the economy being peddled by politicians.

I know it is am disgrace and it is to the eternal shame of the tea party morons that they condone this mickey mouse taxation, here's the rub, the democrats have let it happen or at worst have done nothing to prevent it from continuing.


Also your assertion on "obamacare" crippling the economy? Where do you get your information? I see like myself you don't really fancy either party in the US right now, Paul Ryan's mythical budget plan and Mitt Romneys assertions of what he will do in office will hugely increase the deficit here. And actually cripple the middle class here in the US, and in turn make the climb out of his current shitty economy even more unlikely in the short term.

That is your spin on it based on it, my spin on it is that Obama has moved the goalposts on this so many times they dont know what it will cost, what they do know is that the country cannot afford it.

And your data on illegals paying tax is wrong, they are a significant net payer to the US thereby reducing your tax bill

Healthy debate is a good thing, mud slinging helps no one. Be good to have you back...

There are no grey area's on this, it is black and white, you have either gone through the proper channels are you have decided to emigrate illegally and into a country that has not said you are welcome, that is wrong!

How are you to declare to the yanks what is morally right?

Are the Illegals morally right to take and not gave back via taxation?

You are being hypocritical hegan by the fact you condone the fact that illegal immigrants should be allowed to break the law, you seem to be a stand up guy yet you care nothing about the laws of the land that allowed you to come here the right way, surely the Americans should be allowed to enforce the laws of their land just like the Irish and the Brits etc?
You also seem to not care that many of these people do not pay taxes, just like decco1 why is that?

I am also a hypocrite, many years ago when we first moved to the states we had a lad from Armagh come to us and asked if he could stay with us, I let him and he stayed for two months, he lived off of us, never bought so much as a loaf of bread and after I kicked him out for doing drugs in the house all he did was bad mouth me to friends back home, he was illegal and I knew it at the time and for that I am as bad, if not worse as some of ye.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 05, 2012, 08:26:49 PM
QuoteYou also seem to not care that many of these people do not pay taxes, just like decco1 why is that?

Where did I say that I don't care that many of these people do not pay taxes? I simply mentioned that employers also get away with paying less because they employ illegal workers. And that set you off on a rant.

Obviously you don't care that employers pay less, in many cases pay no employment taxes and get away with a host of other employment law violations because they employ people illegally.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 08:33:09 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 07:51:53 PM
I find it sad that Irishmen can't debate the real issues of American politics without stopping to the media driven spin and name calling that pollutes the discourse over here. Just because a man does not personally agree with illegal immigration (the key is in the illegal part) does not make him a white collar conservative in a fit of gun toting hysteria. Similarly - just because a man feels genuine sympathy for illegal immigrants in trouble, or thinking that they have to leave their homes - doesn't make him a bleeding heart liberal. I'd ask you all to wind your necks in with the insulting tagging - maybe take a leaf out of HB's book and see how posting, while addressing the issues and easing up on the insults can be done.

American politics is ruined by Americans.

EDIT: By the way, we are all hypocrites - despite our best intentions. There are very few Ghandis out there.

Sorry, but you only have to scratch the surface to see the racism behind the anti-immigrant hysteria.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 08:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 07:06:33 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 05:27:51 PM
I pay my taxes and I hope they get deported, why should I help them on their way to giving nothing and taking everything, answer me that.

Illegals in America do harder work in a day than you'll do in a year.  They pay taxes in the form of payroll taxes and sales taxes on everything they buy.  If it wasn't for them you'd have to add about 10% to the cost of all the food you buy (because white people in America consider picking food out of the fields to be beneath them) and you wouldn't have the option of staying in hotel rooms at such affordable prices.

How the fcuk do you know that? girl, you dont know shit! what do I do for a living eamon? riddle me this!

Why are you bringing people of color to the table here, it has feck all to do with color, are all white people the devil eamon? is that the way your momma brought you up? ::)

This idea that people flood into America for the "generous" welfare system is nothing short of a racist myth. In case you hadn't noticed, America has the most porous social safety net in the developed world. People come to America to work because of the opportunity that it offers anyone willing to work for a better life.

great, now did they spend the money, fill in the same paperwork and wait the same length as me and others like puck and hegan on here to get here? do they spend the same in taxes?

It's all right saying that illegals should be "just" deported, but unless you can think of an efficient enough system that's going to process 10 million people (and build an impregnable iron curtain across the USA's 1,969 mile southern border) without bankrupting the state, I'm afraid that's just not going to happen.

I think they should be deported, they should not have been here in the first place, i also think that they should have the right to spend their money to apply for Visas and that they should get serious consideration if they kept their noses clean, if they had children that were born here then if, they left and went back they should get in based on the childs basic human right to live in a free society in the country it was born in.


Is it "wrong" to enter a country illegally?  "Wrong" is a point of view.  In my book, something is "wrong" if it causes harm.  Smoking pot is illegal, but nobody in their right mind thinks it causes any more harm than the perfectly legal activity of drinking alcohol.  Just because something is illegal doesn't make it harmful.

"wrong is a point of view" what liberal bullshit rock are you crawling under, it is the rule of law that matters, the rule of law says they are not to be in the country, not stews rule, the rule of law that dictates a man's right to be here or not.

To compare pot to illegal immigration is ridiculous and not worth responding to.

And you know what else I find interesting? The people who scream the loudest about the evils of undocumented immigrants are usually the same people who worship at the altar of the free market.  A free market usually entails the free movement of goods and labour like they have in the EU.  According to them, supply and demand should determine the cost of goods and labour.  And yet here we have a large number of people willing to move where the work is and work for competitive wages, resulting in higher profits for employers and lower costs for consumers.  Illegal immigration is a libertarian's wet dream.  A de-regulated, non-unionised, low-wage workforce willing to work for a pittance is something that conservatives have been fighting for for years. And along comes a de-regulated, non-unionised, low-wage workforce willing to work for a pittance, but they happen to have dark skin and don't speak English! All traditional conservative free market principles go out the window all of a sudden. Ever notice that?

Ah the rant of the day, racism, hatred of unions, dark skinned illegals, such an emotive, ill thought out load of drivel that has nothing to do with what anyone else has posted but hey, liberals good, love everybody and conservatives bad, hate blacks, union workers etc......do you actually believe this shite you spout? God I hope not.

I have belonged to two unions and found one of them to be strong and another to be useless and corrupt. The first one I was a member of was in Armagh, I was on strike for 7 weeks and never broke the picket line once, plenty did, I did not and in the end we prevailed.

Unions are corrupt, they are absolutely corrupt in many, many cases, in Detroit you had line workers making 70K plus on assembly lines and when GM asked them to take pay cuts or lose their jobs they fecking voted to lose their jobs, define insanity liberals?

The people who scream the loudest about the evils of illegal immigration are the same people who hate the federal government interfering in people's lives, and here they are demanding the the federal government step in and interfere in this free market of labour.  Nice consistency there, conservatives.

The federal government should be out to protect the USA, you cant do that by letting illegals run all over the f**king place. Everyone in this country should pay taxes, the rich, the poor, every f**king person, end of.

Let's face it, folks. There are plenty of laws that get broken day after day, and conservatives don't usually give a toss about many of them (particularly white collar thievery).  But when it comes to a completely arbitrary law about paperwork that involves dark-skinned people entering white territory in big numbers, suddenly the enforcement of this law and the proper procedure for complying with bureaucratic requirements becomes a top priority, and conservatives get themselves worked up into gun-toting hysteria over it.  We all know what's really going on. We all know what this is really about, and it's not about a sudden devotion to complying with the regulations set down by the federal government.

Are you a racist sir? you seem to be obsessed with color and are very hard on the white man, just an observation!

It's all about the George Zimmerman doctrine. "I think the black guy's up to no good."

I guess you are!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 08:48:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 07:08:48 PM
(http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms//5-10-11bud-f1.jpg)

Nice chart, it means shit all and has a nice screaming liberal taste to it but I am sure it is accurate given the source.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 08:51:10 PM
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2012, 08:26:49 PM
QuoteYou also seem to not care that many of these people do not pay taxes, just like decco1 why is that?

Where did I say that I don't care that many of these people do not pay taxes? I simply mentioned that employers also get away with paying less because they employ illegal workers. And that set you off on a rant.

Obviously you don't care that employers pay less, in many cases pay no employment taxes and get away with a host of other employment law violations because they employ people illegally.

Yet you failed to mention the workers themselves, I believe them to be equally culpuble, both should be paying their way and to be honest I think the guy that employs them should be fined for taking advantage of them and should have to pay their ticket home and processing fees to come back, Al Capone and all that!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 08:53:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 08:33:09 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2012, 07:51:53 PM
I find it sad that Irishmen can't debate the real issues of American politics without stopping to the media driven spin and name calling that pollutes the discourse over here. Just because a man does not personally agree with illegal immigration (the key is in the illegal part) does not make him a white collar conservative in a fit of gun toting hysteria. Similarly - just because a man feels genuine sympathy for illegal immigrants in trouble, or thinking that they have to leave their homes - doesn't make him a bleeding heart liberal. I'd ask you all to wind your necks in with the insulting tagging - maybe take a leaf out of HB's book and see how posting, while addressing the issues and easing up on the insults can be done.

American politics is ruined by Americans.

EDIT: By the way, we are all hypocrites - despite our best intentions. There are very few Ghandis out there.

Sorry, but you only have to scratch the surface to see the racism behind the anti-immigrant hysteria.

eamon, your last name is not McCarthy by any chance?????

I see a conspiracy everywhere eamon, is that it just under the screen of me computer screen????

I call a spade a spade, I am no racist and i resent being called one by an ill informed git who presumes to know me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 05, 2012, 09:08:18 PM
But Stew do you not see that you blast other people for calling spades spades. It's all perception. You think you are right on everything and everyone else thinks you are wrong - but you "tell it like it is".
I live in a community where your attitude is prevalent amount hard core republicans. Maybe you have been out here too long. One of the advantages I always though of being Irish in America is you could see through some of these things but you have lapped it up and dish it out with the best of the Americans now....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 05, 2012, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 08:51:10 PM
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2012, 08:26:49 PM
QuoteYou also seem to not care that many of these people do not pay taxes, just like decco1 why is that?

Where did I say that I don't care that many of these people do not pay taxes? I simply mentioned that employers also get away with paying less because they employ illegal workers. And that set you off on a rant.

Obviously you don't care that employers pay less, in many cases pay no employment taxes and get away with a host of other employment law violations because they employ people illegally.

Yet you failed to mention the workers themselves, I believe them to be equally culpuble, both should be paying their way and to be honest I think the guy that employs them should be fined for taking advantage of them and should have to pay their ticket home and processing fees to come back, Al Capone and all that!

And up until this post you have failed to mention the employers, your venting has been entirely about the employees. The reason so many risk coming to the US is because they know that employers are willing to break the law by employing them.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 09:20:18 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 08:48:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 07:08:48 PM
(http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms//5-10-11bud-f1.jpg)

Nice chart, it means shit all and has a nice screaming liberal taste to it but I am sure it is accurate <b>given the source</b>.

What, the non partisan Congressional Budget Office? The one that Michelle Bachman once denounced as a liberal biased source before pulling out her own graph taken from the CBO?

The classic conservative shoot-the-messenger defence. Fox News has you well trained.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 09:22:24 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 08:53:47 PM


eamon, your last name is not McCarthy by any chance?????

I see a conspiracy everywhere eamon, is that it just under the screen of me computer screen????

I call a spade a spade, I am no racist and <b>i resent being called one by an ill informed git who presumes to know me.</b>

:'( Oh play me the world's smallest violin.

Seems to me like you think you have the right to "call a spade a spade" but when someone else does it and calls you out then you can't hold back the tears.

If you can't take it don't give it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 09:22:24 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2012, 08:53:47 PM


eamon, your last name is not McCarthy by any chance?????

I see a conspiracy everywhere eamon, is that it just under the screen of me computer screen????

I call a spade a spade, I am no racist and <b>i resent being called one by an ill informed git who presumes to know me.</b>

:'( Oh play me the world's smallest violin.

Seems to me like you think you have the right to "call a spade a spade" but when someone else does it and calls you out then you can't hold back the tears.

If you can't take it don't give it.

I didn't play the race card, you did!

I am also not a republican, I have republican leanings but have the ability to know that sometimes the right way to go is with the party with the best idea's, unlike you I can think in more than one dimension, for example "Democrats good, Republicans bad", simplistic tosh eamon.

You and I have nothing in common and would not like each other in life, fair enough, but if you think liberals are the be all and end all you are dumber than I gave you credit for, to me there is not a whole pile of difference between the two parties at this stage, hence my wish for a third party!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on September 05, 2012, 10:31:35 PM
Could someone define the apparently pejorative term "liberal" in the context of this conversation? And what's the "screaming" bit about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 10:32:32 PM
One party thinks it's okay to discriminate against people because they're gay, the other doesn't.

One party thinks that government is nothing but a drain on society, the other doesn't.

One party thinks it's okay to get government into the bedroom and to stop women from making decisions about their own bodies, the other doesn't.

One party thinks that the path to prosperity is to cut the tax bill for billionaires and hope the wealth trickles down, the other doesn't.

One party thinks that a particular flavor of religion should be rammed down everyone else's throats, establishment clause be damned, and the other doesn't.

One party thinks that diplomacy and cooperating with other nations is a better way to solve international problems than going in unilaterally with all guns blazing and asking questions later, the other doesn't.

One party thinks that anthropogenic global warming is real (as confirmed by science), the other doesn't.

One party thinks that the earth is a naturally occurring entity over millions of years old (as confirmed by science), the other doesn't.

Anybody who thinks there's no difference between Republicans and Democrats is talking through his hat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 10:33:55 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 05, 2012, 10:31:35 PM
Could someone define the apparently pejorative term "liberal" in the context of this conversation?

According to Stew and the rest of the Fox Newsiverse, it's anyone to the left of Genghis Khan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 10:34:25 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 05, 2012, 09:08:18 PM
But Stew do you not see that you blast other people for calling spades spades. It's all perception. You think you are right on everything and everyone else thinks you are wrong - but you "tell it like it is".
I live in a community where your attitude is prevalent amount hard core republicans. Maybe you have been out here too long. One of the advantages I always though of being Irish in America is you could see through some of these things but you have lapped it up and dish it out with the best of the Americans now....

I don't, this site is choc full of democrats who never, and I mean never think that the republicans are right on anything, there is so much bias it is unreal.

I came over here a democrat, I became appalled at the unions that were so corrupt they were like gangsters and in fact were gangsters (teamsters)

I know there are great Democrats, Clinton being one of them, riddle me this, when was the last time a liberal gave credit to ANY conservative on this site? it never happened.

I want everyone to pay their fair share, that includes me, my family and every business owner and worker in America, the dems don't, the republicans don't, they protect the rich, the liberals want the middle class and the rich to pay for everything, i want the system to be fair to all, it's not and wont be no matter who governs this country for the next four years because all four candidates for the top two jobs are shite at what they do, complete and utter shite, we are fcuked until this country finds another Clinton who can balance the budget and implement sensible social policies that are cost effective and available to those who need them, it can be done, but not under obamacare!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 10:40:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2012, 10:32:32 PM
One party thinks it's okay to discriminate against people because they're gay, the other doesn't.

One party thinks that government is nothing but a drain on society, the other doesn't.

One party thinks it's okay to get government into the bedroom and to stop women from making decisions about their own bodies, the other doesn't.

One party thinks that the path to prosperity is to cut the tax bill for billionaires and hope the wealth trickles down, the other doesn't.

One party thinks that a particular flavor of religion should be rammed down everyone else's throats, establishment clause be damned, and the other doesn't.

One party thinks that diplomacy and cooperating with other nations is a better way to solve international problems than going in unilaterally with all guns blazing and asking questions later, the other doesn't.

One party thinks that anthropogenic global warming is real (as confirmed by science), the other doesn't.

One party thinks that the earth is a naturally occurring entity over millions of years old (as confirmed by science), the other doesn't.

Anybody who thinks there's no difference between Republicans and Democrats is talking through his hat.

Ah the man who decided to become an athiest at a relatives funeral speaketh. Maybe when the next relative coups you will change your fleeting mind back again!

The parties are far too close for comfort, the yanks need a third option.

Do babies in the wombs of these women have the right to life in your world? eamon, are you for killing babies?

Global warming is a curse and yes, conservatives in their millions acknowledge this.

The world is billions of years old, science is mad made and therefore flawed and oh, a day for the lord is like a thousand years.

This conservative thinks the rich should be taxed far more than they are now, can you agree with the conservatives on one issue or are you too far gone? methinks the latter cub!


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2012, 10:48:11 PM
In related news................ :)
Democrats have changed their convention platform to add a mention of God and declare that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

The move came after criticism from Republicans.

Many in the audience booed after the convention chairman, Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, ruled that the amendments had been approved despite the fact that a large group of delegates objected.

He called for a vote three times before ruling.

The party reinstated language from the 2008 platform that said "we need a government that stands up for the hopes, values and interests of working people and gives everyone willing to work hard the chance to make the most of their God-given potential."

The platform also now includes what advisers said was Obama's personal views on Jerusalem.

___what convictions the mighty democrats have...........ah well, they are getting used to being bossed around by the republicans already. ;)

wee eamon, take a redner. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 06, 2012, 09:08:34 PM
Democracy at it's finest................... Is he president Barak Hussein Obama or Dictator Obama? you decide!

Needled by Mitt Romney and other Republicans, Democrats hurriedly rewrote their convention platform Wednesday to add a mention of God and declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel after President Barack Obama intervened to order the changes.

The embarrassing reversal was compounded by chaos and uncertainty on the convention floor. Three times Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, the convention chairman, called for a voice vote on the changes and each time the yes and no votes seemed to balance each other out. On the third attempt, Villaraigosa ruled the amendments were approved — triggering boos from many in the audience.

The episode exposed tensions on Israel within the party, put Democrats on the defensive and created a public relations spectacle as Obama arrived in the convention city to claim his party's nomination for a second term.

"There was no discussion. We didn't even see it coming. We were blindsided by it," said Noor Ul-Hasan, a Muslim delegate from Salt Lake City, who questioned whether the convention had enough of a quorum to even amend the platform.

"The majority spoke last night," said Angela Urrea, a delegate from Roy, Utah. "We shouldn't be declaring Jerusalem as the capital of Israel."

The language in the platform — a political document — does not affect actual U.S. policy toward Israel. The administration has long said that determining Jerusalem's status is an issue that should be decided in peace talks by Israelis and Palestinians.

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the powerful pro-Israel lobbying group, welcomed the support of Democrats and Republicans alike on Israel. "Together, these party platforms reflect strong bipartisan support for the US-Israel relationship," AIPAC said.

Obama intervened directly to get the language changed both on Jerusalem and to reinstate God in the platform, according to campaign officials who insisted on anonymity to describe behind-the-scenes party negotiations. They said Obama's reaction to the omission of God from the platform was to wonder why it was removed in the first place.

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., the party chairman, said both the God and Jerusalem omissions were "essentially a technical oversight." She insisted in a CNN interview there had been no discord on the floor and said the vote definitely met the two-thirds threshold.

The revisions came as Obama struggles to win support from white working-class voters, many of whom have strong religious beliefs, and as Republicans try to woo Jewish voters and contributors away from the Democratic Party. Republicans claimed the platform omissions suggested Obama was weak in his defense of Israel and out of touch with mainstream Americans.

GOP officials argued that not taking a position on Jerusalem's status in the party platform raised questions about Obama's support for the Mideast ally. Romney said omitting God "suggests a party that is increasingly out of touch with the mainstream of the American people."

"I think this party is veering further and further away into an extreme wing that Americans don't recognize," Romney said.

Added to the Democratic platform was a declaration that Jerusalem "is and will remain the capital of Israel. The parties have agreed that Jerusalem is a matter for final status negotiations. It should remain an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths."

That language was included in the platform four years ago when Obama ran for his first term, but was left out when Democrats on Tuesday approved their 2012 platform, which referred only to the nation's "unshakable commitment to Israel's security."

Also restored from the 2008 platform was language calling for a government that "gives everyone willing to work hard the chance to make the most of their God-given potential."

For decades, Republican and Democratic administrations alike have said it is up to the Israelis and Palestinians to settle Jerusalem's final status — a position reiterated earlier Wednesday by the White House. Both sides claim Jerusalem as their capital, and the city's status has long been among the thorniest issues in Mideast peace talks.

The U.S. has its embassy in Tel Aviv, although numerous Republicans — including Mitt Romney — have vowed to move the embassy to Jerusalem.

During his 2008 campaign, Obama referred to Jerusalem as Israel's capital in a speech to AIPAC. But as official policy, his administration has repeatedly maintained that Jerusalem's status is an issue that Israelis and Palestinians should decide in peace talks. The platform flub gave Republicans an opening to revive their attacks on Obama's support for Israel just as Democrats were hoping to bask in the glow of first lady Michelle Obama's Tuesday speech and gin up excitement for her husband, who will accept his party's nomination for a second term on Thursday.

But restoring the language did not placate Republicans, who used it to suggest that Obama's party is now more supportive than he is of the Jewish state.

"Now is the time for President Obama to state in unequivocal terms whether or not he believes Jerusalem is Israel's capital," said Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul.

Republicans declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel in the platform the party approved last week at its convention in Tampa, Fla. GOP platforms in 2004 and 2008 also called Jerusalem the capital.

___

Lederman reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Steve Peoples in Utah, Bradley Klapper in Washington, and Ken Thomas, Ben Feller and Matthew Daly in Charlotte contributed.
@yahoonews on Twitter, become a fan on Facebook
Explore Related Content
1 - 4

were have you all gone boys...................................... you beloved democrats are scurrying like the rats they are...................... well done Team Romney, ye have them scurrying and gutting each other.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 06, 2012, 09:28:14 PM
I'd say some of ye on here would be a wavering in their support after reading about Obama's about face on God and Israel..........................eamon must be dunging the togs at this stage. :D

It gotten very quiet on this thread, hmm, yesterday you couldnt turn around without someone giving me shite, today nobody has anything to say, such conviction from the looney left. :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on September 06, 2012, 09:35:54 PM
Would you two stop talking shite, claiming your better than the other one, you're clogging up the board with your bollix chatting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 06, 2012, 10:03:36 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 06, 2012, 09:35:54 PM
Would you two stop talking shite, claiming your better than the other one, you're clogging up the board with your bollix chatting.

Nobody claimed they were better than anyone else, if you dont like it feck away off to something else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ludermor on September 07, 2012, 01:01:40 AM
Sometimes it feels like tyrones own  never left....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on September 07, 2012, 03:11:32 AM
Stew is off his medication again, the mad auld bollix
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on September 07, 2012, 10:52:48 AM
Quote from: stew on September 06, 2012, 09:08:34 PM
Democracy at it's finest................... Is he president Barak Hussein Obama or Dictator Obama? you decide!

Needled by Mitt Romney and other Republicans, Democrats hurriedly rewrote their convention platform Wednesday to add a mention of God and declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel after President Barack Obama intervened to order the changes.

The embarrassing reversal was compounded by chaos and uncertainty on the convention floor. Three times Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, the convention chairman, called for a voice vote on the changes and each time the yes and no votes seemed to balance each other out. On the third attempt, Villaraigosa ruled the amendments were approved — triggering boos from many in the audience.

The episode exposed tensions on Israel within the party, put Democrats on the defensive and created a public relations spectacle as Obama arrived in the convention city to claim his party's nomination for a second term.

"There was no discussion. We didn't even see it coming. We were blindsided by it," said Noor Ul-Hasan, a Muslim delegate from Salt Lake City, who questioned whether the convention had enough of a quorum to even amend the platform.

"The majority spoke last night," said Angela Urrea, a delegate from Roy, Utah. "We shouldn't be declaring Jerusalem as the capital of Israel."

The language in the platform — a political document — does not affect actual U.S. policy toward Israel. The administration has long said that determining Jerusalem's status is an issue that should be decided in peace talks by Israelis and Palestinians.

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the powerful pro-Israel lobbying group, welcomed the support of Democrats and Republicans alike on Israel. "Together, these party platforms reflect strong bipartisan support for the US-Israel relationship," AIPAC said.

Obama intervened directly to get the language changed both on Jerusalem and to reinstate God in the platform, according to campaign officials who insisted on anonymity to describe behind-the-scenes party negotiations. They said Obama's reaction to the omission of God from the platform was to wonder why it was removed in the first place.

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., the party chairman, said both the God and Jerusalem omissions were "essentially a technical oversight." She insisted in a CNN interview there had been no discord on the floor and said the vote definitely met the two-thirds threshold.

The revisions came as Obama struggles to win support from white working-class voters, many of whom have strong religious beliefs, and as Republicans try to woo Jewish voters and contributors away from the Democratic Party. Republicans claimed the platform omissions suggested Obama was weak in his defense of Israel and out of touch with mainstream Americans.

GOP officials argued that not taking a position on Jerusalem's status in the party platform raised questions about Obama's support for the Mideast ally. Romney said omitting God "suggests a party that is increasingly out of touch with the mainstream of the American people."

"I think this party is veering further and further away into an extreme wing that Americans don't recognize," Romney said.

Added to the Democratic platform was a declaration that Jerusalem "is and will remain the capital of Israel. The parties have agreed that Jerusalem is a matter for final status negotiations. It should remain an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths."

That language was included in the platform four years ago when Obama ran for his first term, but was left out when Democrats on Tuesday approved their 2012 platform, which referred only to the nation's "unshakable commitment to Israel's security."

Also restored from the 2008 platform was language calling for a government that "gives everyone willing to work hard the chance to make the most of their God-given potential."

For decades, Republican and Democratic administrations alike have said it is up to the Israelis and Palestinians to settle Jerusalem's final status — a position reiterated earlier Wednesday by the White House. Both sides claim Jerusalem as their capital, and the city's status has long been among the thorniest issues in Mideast peace talks.

The U.S. has its embassy in Tel Aviv, although numerous Republicans — including Mitt Romney — have vowed to move the embassy to Jerusalem.

During his 2008 campaign, Obama referred to Jerusalem as Israel's capital in a speech to AIPAC. But as official policy, his administration has repeatedly maintained that Jerusalem's status is an issue that Israelis and Palestinians should decide in peace talks. The platform flub gave Republicans an opening to revive their attacks on Obama's support for Israel just as Democrats were hoping to bask in the glow of first lady Michelle Obama's Tuesday speech and gin up excitement for her husband, who will accept his party's nomination for a second term on Thursday.

But restoring the language did not placate Republicans, who used it to suggest that Obama's party is now more supportive than he is of the Jewish state.

"Now is the time for President Obama to state in unequivocal terms whether or not he believes Jerusalem is Israel's capital," said Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul.

Republicans declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel in the platform the party approved last week at its convention in Tampa, Fla. GOP platforms in 2004 and 2008 also called Jerusalem the capital.

___

Lederman reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Steve Peoples in Utah, Bradley Klapper in Washington, and Ken Thomas, Ben Feller and Matthew Daly in Charlotte contributed.
@yahoonews on Twitter, become a fan on Facebook
Explore Related Content
1 - 4

were have you all gone boys...................................... you beloved democrats are scurrying like the rats they are...................... well done Team Romney, ye have them scurrying and gutting each other.  ;D

Is there any economic policies to be discussed of is it up to how many celeb endorsements you can obtain.

From the outside looking it, there's always been the feeling that American politics have been dumbed down, sadly I get the feeling its going that way here as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on September 07, 2012, 12:35:41 PM
As long as they're letting the Israeli tail wag their dog..........  >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 07, 2012, 05:54:19 PM
Quote from: stew on September 06, 2012, 10:03:36 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 06, 2012, 09:35:54 PM
Would you two stop talking shite, claiming your better than the other one, you're clogging up the board with your bollix chatting.

Nobody claimed they were better than anyone else, if you dont like it feck away off to something else.

Yes or no, if you're man enough to give an honest yes or no answer. Do you shout out loud at the TV on a regular basis?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on September 08, 2012, 04:23:13 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 07, 2012, 10:52:48 AM
Quote from: stew on September 06, 2012, 09:08:34 PM
Democracy at it's finest................... Is he president Barak Hussein Obama or Dictator Obama? you decide!

Needled by Mitt Romney and other Republicans, Democrats hurriedly rewrote their convention platform Wednesday to add a mention of God and declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel after President Barack Obama intervened to order the changes.

The embarrassing reversal was compounded by chaos and uncertainty on the convention floor. Three times Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, the convention chairman, called for a voice vote on the changes and each time the yes and no votes seemed to balance each other out. On the third attempt, Villaraigosa ruled the amendments were approved — triggering boos from many in the audience.

The episode exposed tensions on Israel within the party, put Democrats on the defensive and created a public relations spectacle as Obama arrived in the convention city to claim his party's nomination for a second term.

"There was no discussion. We didn't even see it coming. We were blindsided by it," said Noor Ul-Hasan, a Muslim delegate from Salt Lake City, who questioned whether the convention had enough of a quorum to even amend the platform.

"The majority spoke last night," said Angela Urrea, a delegate from Roy, Utah. "We shouldn't be declaring Jerusalem as the capital of Israel."

The language in the platform — a political document — does not affect actual U.S. policy toward Israel. The administration has long said that determining Jerusalem's status is an issue that should be decided in peace talks by Israelis and Palestinians.

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the powerful pro-Israel lobbying group, welcomed the support of Democrats and Republicans alike on Israel. "Together, these party platforms reflect strong bipartisan support for the US-Israel relationship," AIPAC said.

Obama intervened directly to get the language changed both on Jerusalem and to reinstate God in the platform, according to campaign officials who insisted on anonymity to describe behind-the-scenes party negotiations. They said Obama's reaction to the omission of God from the platform was to wonder why it was removed in the first place.

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., the party chairman, said both the God and Jerusalem omissions were "essentially a technical oversight." She insisted in a CNN interview there had been no discord on the floor and said the vote definitely met the two-thirds threshold.

The revisions came as Obama struggles to win support from white working-class voters, many of whom have strong religious beliefs, and as Republicans try to woo Jewish voters and contributors away from the Democratic Party. Republicans claimed the platform omissions suggested Obama was weak in his defense of Israel and out of touch with mainstream Americans.

GOP officials argued that not taking a position on Jerusalem's status in the party platform raised questions about Obama's support for the Mideast ally. Romney said omitting God "suggests a party that is increasingly out of touch with the mainstream of the American people."

"I think this party is veering further and further away into an extreme wing that Americans don't recognize," Romney said.

Added to the Democratic platform was a declaration that Jerusalem "is and will remain the capital of Israel. The parties have agreed that Jerusalem is a matter for final status negotiations. It should remain an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths."

That language was included in the platform four years ago when Obama ran for his first term, but was left out when Democrats on Tuesday approved their 2012 platform, which referred only to the nation's "unshakable commitment to Israel's security."

Also restored from the 2008 platform was language calling for a government that "gives everyone willing to work hard the chance to make the most of their God-given potential."

For decades, Republican and Democratic administrations alike have said it is up to the Israelis and Palestinians to settle Jerusalem's final status — a position reiterated earlier Wednesday by the White House. Both sides claim Jerusalem as their capital, and the city's status has long been among the thorniest issues in Mideast peace talks.

The U.S. has its embassy in Tel Aviv, although numerous Republicans — including Mitt Romney — have vowed to move the embassy to Jerusalem.

During his 2008 campaign, Obama referred to Jerusalem as Israel's capital in a speech to AIPAC. But as official policy, his administration has repeatedly maintained that Jerusalem's status is an issue that Israelis and Palestinians should decide in peace talks. The platform flub gave Republicans an opening to revive their attacks on Obama's support for Israel just as Democrats were hoping to bask in the glow of first lady Michelle Obama's Tuesday speech and gin up excitement for her husband, who will accept his party's nomination for a second term on Thursday.

But restoring the language did not placate Republicans, who used it to suggest that Obama's party is now more supportive than he is of the Jewish state.

"Now is the time for President Obama to state in unequivocal terms whether or not he believes Jerusalem is Israel's capital," said Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul.

Republicans declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel in the platform the party approved last week at its convention in Tampa, Fla. GOP platforms in 2004 and 2008 also called Jerusalem the capital.

___

Lederman reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Steve Peoples in Utah, Bradley Klapper in Washington, and Ken Thomas, Ben Feller and Matthew Daly in Charlotte contributed.
@yahoonews on Twitter, become a fan on Facebook
Explore Related Content
1 - 4

were have you all gone boys...................................... you beloved democrats are scurrying like the rats they are...................... well done Team Romney, ye have them scurrying and gutting each other.  ;D

Is there any economic policies to be discussed of is it up to how many celeb endorsements you can obtain.

From the outside looking it, there's always been the feeling that American politics have been dumbed down, sadly I get the feeling its going that way here as well.

That is not true. I can assure you that if you have even a passing  interest in politics then the level of political discourse you will see and hear on NPR, CSPAN, certain programs on the more mainstream channels and on the pages of the New York times or any other major newspaper stands up extremely well to anything you will see or hear at home. American politics is actually a beautiful thing to behold if you can get past your preconceived notions, right down to the local level. Actual policy is debated at every level in a way that I simply have not seen in Ireland, the UK or mainland Europe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on September 10, 2012, 12:08:03 PM
You may have a point, but these conventions where celebs are wheeled out for a few lovely words just reek of populist bullshit to me.

What makes people think the Clint Eastwood would have a clue about the US economy or foreign policy? What has he and his ilk on the Democrats side got to offer?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on September 10, 2012, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 10, 2012, 12:08:03 PM
You may have a point, but these conventions where celebs are wheeled out for a few lovely words just reek of populist bullshit to me.

What makes people think the Clint Eastwood would have a clue about the US economy or foreign policy? What has he and his ilk on the Democrats side got to offer?

Gil Scott Heron describes this better than anyone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtRHN7fsgY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtRHN7fsgY)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 10, 2012, 04:39:25 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 10, 2012, 12:08:03 PM
You may have a point, but these conventions where celebs are wheeled out for a few lovely words just reek of populist bullshit to me.

What makes people think the Clint Eastwood would have a clue about the US economy or foreign policy? What has he and his ilk on the Democrats side got to offer?

Eastwood has long been vocal and involved in American politics. He had a successful term as Mayor of Carmel also. He'd have more of a clue about the issues than many posters on here. Sure, there's a bit of populism and celebrity to the national conventions but it's not the case of rolling out someone just for the sake of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on September 10, 2012, 05:11:34 PM
I'm reminded of Twink at the FG Árd Fheis one time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 10, 2012, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 10, 2012, 04:39:25 PM
Eastwood has long been vocal and involved in American politics. He had a successful term as Mayor of Carmel also. He'd have more of a clue about the issues than many posters on here. Sure, there's a bit of populism and celebrity to the national conventions but it's not the case of rolling out someone just for the sake of it.

Maybe he does, but he didn't demonstrate it in his, er, performance.

I don't worry that politics in America is being dumbed down. It bothers me that in a two-party system, one of the parties has been captured by a lunatic fringe that wouldn't be within the margin of error of existing in the rest of the developed world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 10, 2012, 05:42:50 PM
No doubt, his little skit at the RNC was dumb, to say the least. I was merely suggesting that they weren't going down the line pulling a celebrity with little to no involvement or knowledge in American Politics in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 10, 2012, 09:06:48 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 10, 2012, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 10, 2012, 04:39:25 PM
Eastwood has long been vocal and involved in American politics. He had a successful term as Mayor of Carmel also. He'd have more of a clue about the issues than many posters on here. Sure, there's a bit of populism and celebrity to the national conventions but it's not the case of rolling out someone just for the sake of it.

Maybe he does, but he didn't demonstrate it in his, er, performance.

I don't worry that politics in America is being dumbed down. It bothers me that in a two-party system, one of the parties has been captured by a lunatic fringe that wouldn't be within the margin of error of existing in the rest of the developed world.

The National Front got a pretty good showing in French presidential elections and it wasn't long ago that Austria elected the neo-nazi president, so there's no shortage of 'lunacy' in Europe too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on September 10, 2012, 11:57:06 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 10, 2012, 04:39:25 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 10, 2012, 12:08:03 PM
You may have a point, but these conventions where celebs are wheeled out for a few lovely words just reek of populist bullshit to me.

What makes people think the Clint Eastwood would have a clue about the US economy or foreign policy? What has he and his ilk on the Democrats side got to offer?

Eastwood has long been vocal and involved in American politics. He had a successful term as Mayor of Carmel also. He'd have more of a clue about the issues than many posters on here. Sure, there's a bit of populism and celebrity to the national conventions but it's not the case of rolling out someone just for the sake of it.

The juxtaposition of Carmel/Pebble Beach and the nearby agricultural areas around Salinas is very striking. Carmel is filthy rich whilst a few miles down the road mexicans pick salad leaves for a pittance
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on September 11, 2012, 08:04:18 AM
I love this graphic from the last race
(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/foxpie.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 11, 2012, 08:34:15 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 11, 2012, 01:47:50 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on September 10, 2012, 09:06:48 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 10, 2012, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 10, 2012, 04:39:25 PM
Eastwood has long been vocal and involved in American politics. He had a successful term as Mayor of Carmel also. He'd have more of a clue about the issues than many posters on here. Sure, there's a bit of populism and celebrity to the national conventions but it's not the case of rolling out someone just for the sake of it.

Maybe he does, but he didn't demonstrate it in his, er, performance.

I don't worry that politics in America is being dumbed down. It bothers me that in a two-party system, one of the parties has been captured by a lunatic fringe that wouldn't be within the margin of error of existing in the rest of the developed world.

The National Front got a pretty good showing in French presidential elections and it wasn't long ago that Austria elected the neo-nazi president, so there's no shortage of 'lunacy' in Europe too.
When was this? The current Austrian president was elected on a Social Democrats ticket. And the guy before him could hardly be described as a Neo-Nazi either.
Maybe a mix-up with the FPO's performance at the turn of the century which led to EU sanctions?

Slightly earlier than that, Kurt Waldheim was president in the early 90's. He had served in the Wehrmacht and there were allegations he had been in the SS and was aware of war crimes in the balkans.
IIRC the US banned him from visiting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 11, 2012, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on September 10, 2012, 09:06:48 PM
The National Front got a pretty good showing in French presidential elections and it wasn't long ago that Austria elected the neo-nazi president, so there's no shortage of 'lunacy' in Europe too.

Most European countries aren't two party systems, they consist of coalitions which tend to keep the nutters out of government.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on September 11, 2012, 12:19:24 PM
If anything I'd have thought Coalitions were inclined to give the extreme fringe parties more of a chance of getting into a power of sorts along with a more central party.

I was thinking of Micheal McDowell and his PD party who were in coalition with FF back in the day.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 11, 2012, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 11, 2012, 12:19:24 PM
If anything I'd have thought Coalitions were inclined to give the extreme fringe parties more of a chance of getting into a power of sorts along with a more central party.

I was thinking of Micheal McDowell and his PD party who were in coalition with FF back in the day.

'Power of sorts' is very different to what the Republicans are going to have if they have the Presidency and majorities in both houses of Congress.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 11, 2012, 04:50:05 PM
this is a piece by a professor at Columbia in the NY Times.  Essentially this is an economists view of the actual detail of the Ryan plan budget, as opposed to what the campaigns are saying about it.  Whilst the overall aim of reducing the budget is noble- I'm not sure the voting public are aware of the price they will pay to implement such a plan without increasing taxes...


from http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/edsall-the-ryan-sinkhole/

QuoteUnlike the Republican platform, which has mostly been ignored outside of the abortion issue, the Paul Ryan budget is the core document of the 2012 campaign. It is the most explicit expression of the Republican agenda, endorsed by the party's presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, and backed by decisive majorities of House and Senate Republicans.

That much is known. What people have not been talking about enough is that the Ryan budget contains an $897 billion sinkhole: massive but unexplained cuts in such discretionary domestic programs as education, food and drug inspection, workplace safety, environmental protection and law enforcement.

The scope of the cuts – stunning in their breadth — is hidden. To find the numbers, turn to page 16 of the Concurrent Resolution on the Budget – Fiscal Year 2013. In Table 2, Fiscal Year 2013 Budget Resolution Discretionary Spending, in the far right hand column, you'll see the nearly $897 billion figure, which appears on the line marked "BA" for Budget Authority under Allowances (920) as $896,884 (because these figures are listed in millions of dollars).

According to the House Budget Committee, of which Ryan is the chairman:

The federal budget is divided into approximately 20 categories known as budget functions. These functions include all spending for a given topic, regardless of the federal agency that oversees the individual federal program. Both the president's budget, submitted annually, and Congress' budget resolution, passed annually, comprise these approximately 20 functions.
Within the 20 "budget functions" lurks — at number 19 — "Function 920." In a masterpiece of bureaucratic obscurantism, the explanation provided by budget committee reads as follows:

FUNCTION 920: ALLOWANCES

Function 920 represents a category called "allowances" that captures the budgetary effects of cross-cutting proposals or contingencies that impact multiple functions rather than one specific area of the budget. It also represents a place-holder category for any budgetary impacts that the Congressional Budget Office has yet to assign to a specific budget function. C.B.O. typically reassigns the budgetary effects of any legislation enacted within Function 920 once a new baseline update is released.

Mary Altaffer/Associated Press
Paul Ryan t-shirt.
The importance of the nearly $1 trillion in unexplained and unspecified cuts that Ryan and the Republican party are proposing, under the catch-all rubric of "Function 920: Allowances," cannot be overestimated. These invisible cuts are crucial to the Republican claim that the Ryan budget proposal will drastically reduce the federal deficit (eliminating it entirely in the long run) and ultimately erase the national debt.

Ryan's plan was passed 228-191 by the House on March 29, 2012, with no Democrats voting yes. On May 16, the Senate rejected the plan by a vote of 58-41. The vote among Senate Republicans was 41-4 in favor.

While the Ryan budget does specify cuts in programs serving the poor, many of whom are Democratic constituents (Medicaid, food stamps, unemployment benefits), it hides under the abstruse veil of "Function 920 allowances" the cuts in programs popular with many other voters.

This maneuver stands in stark contrast to Ryan's campaign rhetoric. At a rally last Tuesday in Westlake, Ohio, Ryan declared:

We will not duck the tough issues. We will not kick the can down the road.
Romney and Ryan have made their willingness to stand tall and to confront forthrightly the problems facing the nation a central theme of their campaign. In Ryan's words, again from Westlake:

We will lead. We will not blame others for four years; we will take responsibility and fix this country's problems.
The lack of detail in the Ryan budget applies mainly to programs of importance to the voters Republicans continue to angle for, including swing voters concerned about programs like education, environmental protection and food safety.

Interviews I conducted with New Hampshire voters last month reveal the political liabilities of telling potential Republican voters exactly what the Romney-Ryan ticket intends to cut. Two voters, both Republicans, told me they could not bring themselves to vote for their party this year because the Ryan budget cuts spending for veterans' benefits.

In an interview days after Romney announced on a Saturday that he had picked Ryan, George Lemieux said, "Based on what Romney did this weekend, I would not vote for him." Lemieux, a 67-year-old Vietnam War veteran who spent 26 years in the Army, declared that "Ryan wants to decimate Medicare; he wants to decimate the V.A. I have a brother who is dependent on V.A. disability, and he wants to cut it out entirely."

"The Ryan budget will kill everybody," said Aura-Lee Nicodemus, another woman I met, who works at the V.A. Medical Center in White River Junction, Vt. and is active in the advocacy organization, Disabled American Veterans. "I'm a registered Republican and I can't vote for Romney. His actions speak louder than words."

There is a clear rationale for their concerns.

Under the Ryan budget, "Mandatory and Defense and Nondefense Discretionary Spending" – which includes Function 920 Allowances, but excludes Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid — would fall from 12.5 percent of Gross Domestic Product in 2011 to 6.75 percent in 2023, 5.75 percent in 2030, 4.75 percent in 2040 and 3.75 percent in 2050, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.

The C.B.O. cautiously notes how difficult it would be to cut such spending to 3.75 percent of G.D.P.:

By comparison, spending in this category has exceeded 8 percent of G.D.P. in every year since World War II. Spending for defense alone has not been lower than 3 percent of G.D.P. in any year during that period.
Romney, in fact, has committed himself to keeping the Pentagon budget (Function 050) at 4 percent of G.D.P. By 2050, that would leave zilch under the Ryan plan for such separately funded programs as Veterans Benefits (Function 700); the administration of justice, including the F.B.I. (Function 750); Education, Train and Social Services (Function 500), and pretty much anything else.

The big question posed by the comments of the two defecting Republicans I interviewed in New Hampshire is: are Romney and Ryan so committed to the principle of deficit reduction that they are willing, in an election year, to take on veterans? That would be extraordinary. The answer is no.

I emailed the Romney campaign. Here's what I asked:

Talking to voters in New Hampshire, some veterans voiced strong concerns over the scope of likely cuts to the V.A. in the Ryan budget. Has Governor Romney said what will happen to veterans' benefits under his administration?
The campaign immediately disputed any suggestion that the ticket supported cuts in services for veterans. Here is the Romney campaign's emailed response:

That is false. Here are the facts:

- The House-passed Fiscal Year 2013 budget matches the President's discretionary request for veterans for fiscal year 2013: $61.3 billion. Over the ten-year window, the House-passed budget is actually above the President's request on both the mandatory and discretionary side of the ledger.

- On the mandatory side, the House Republican budget calls for $270 million more than President's request. On the discretionary side, the House Republican budget calls for $16.4 billion more than President's request, increasing America's funding for services and benefits earned by veterans.
In an accompanying statement, Andrea Saul, the Romney campaign spokeswoman, said:

Gov. Romney opposes President Obama's plan of drastic cuts to veterans' benefits and the military while exploding the federal budget elsewhere. President Obama's own V.A. Secretary has admitted that Obama's devastating defense budget cuts put veterans' funding at risk for an arbitrary across-the-board cut. Gov. Romney and Paul Ryan are committed to keeping faith with our veterans and providing the care they so richly deserve.
Hmm. How does this fit with the deficit-reducing claims of the Ryan budget and with Ryan's boast that "We will not duck the tough issues? We will not kick the can down the road?"

It turns out that a reading of the Ryan budget — if you don't parse Function 920 — is deceptive. In the case of veterans' benefits, for example, Andrea Saul's claim that the Romney-Ryan ticket is "committed to keeping faith with our veterans" appears, on the surface, to be legitimate, because none of the mysterious Function 920 cuts show up in her computations.

If veterans' benefits are to be protected, what programs will be on the chopping block to achieve the $897 billion in cuts listed under the mysterious "Function 920 allowances" category? Will it be education or food inspectors, air traffic controllers or homeland security?

The Ryan budget does, in fact, "duck the tough issues." Ryan claims to be proposing major steps toward a balanced budget and long-term debt reduction, but he doesn't really tell voters how he is going to get there.

Interestingly, the budget proposed by President Obama does specify where cuts would be made, including those called for in the Budget Control Act, the measure approved by Congress and signed into law on August 2, 2011, as part of the deal to raise the debt ceiling and to avoid default on government debt.

A statement in the Obama administration budget claims credit for making explicit the "difficult trade offs" to reach spending reduction goals:

In the Budget Control Act, both parties in Congress and the President agreed to tight spending caps that reduce discretionary spending by $1 trillion over 10 years. This budget reflects that decision. Thus, for all the priority areas we are investing in, difficult trade-offs had to be made to meet these very tight caps. Discretionary spending is reduced from 8.7 percent of G.D.P. in 2011 to 5.0 percent in 2022.
Perhaps the most striking aspect of the omissions in the Ryan budget is the failure of Obama and other Democrats to capitalize on it.

Leading Democrats I spoke to, who refused to be identified because they did not want to be quoted faulting their own party, cited two factors limiting their ability to mount a counter-attack. First, the complexity of the issue makes it difficult for reporters to understand and write about the subject. After wading my way through all of this, I know what they mean. Second, the Ryan tactic of obscuring the cuts successfully plays to a fundamental ambivalence that amounts to an internal contradiction in public opinion: strong support for spending cuts in the abstract, but opposition to many specific cuts in programs that have popular support.

In a speech on April 3 at the Associated Press luncheon in Washington, Obama tried to make the case against Ryan well before he was picked to run for vice president. Applying the $897 billion in cuts under "Function 920 Allowances" to domestic spending programs, Obama projected a future scenario:

The year after next, nearly 10 million college students would see their financial aid cut by an average of more than $1,000 each.  There would be 1,600 fewer medical grants, research grants for things like Alzheimer's and cancer and AIDS.  There would be 4,000 fewer scientific research grants, eliminating support for 48,000 researchers, students, and teachers.  Investments in clean energy technologies that are helping us reduce our dependence on foreign oil would be cut by nearly a fifth.

If this budget becomes law and the cuts were applied evenly, starting in 2014, over 200,000 children would lose their chance to get an early education in the Head Start program.  Two million mothers and young children would be cut from a program that gives them access to healthy food.  There would be 4,500 fewer federal grants at the Department of Justice and the F.B.I. to combat violent crime, financial crime, and help secure our borders.  Hundreds of national parks would be forced to close for part or all of the year.  We wouldn't have the capacity to enforce the laws that protect the air we breathe, the water we drink, or the food that we eat.

Cuts to the F.A.A. would likely result in more flight cancellations, delays, and the complete elimination of air traffic control services in parts of the country. Over time, our weather forecasts would become less accurate because we wouldn't be able to afford to launch new satellites. And that means governors and mayors would have to wait longer to order evacuations in the event of a hurricane.
Ryan, in the meantime, remains consistent. Two days after his speech in Westlake, on Sept. 6, he reiterated his claims at a rally in Colorado Springs:

So here is our commitment. We are not going to duck the tough issues and kick the can down the road. We are going to lead and fix this mess in Washington. And we are not going to spend the next four years blaming people from the last four years. We're going to take responsibility and get the job done, reach across the aisle and fix this problem, get people back to work, create jobs, growth.
In an interview, Christopher Van Hollen Jr. of Maryland, the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee, told me that the Ryan budget "is a shell game designed to hide the damage to the country." Van Hollen is frustrated that the damage to which he alludes has not become a campaign issue: "The magnitude of this budget gimmick takes your breath away."

Thomas B. Edsall, a professor of journalism at Columbia University, is the author of the book "The Age of Austerity: How Scarcity Will Remake American Politics," which was published earlier this year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 11, 2012, 06:07:15 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 11, 2012, 01:47:50 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on September 10, 2012, 09:06:48 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 10, 2012, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 10, 2012, 04:39:25 PM
Eastwood has long been vocal and involved in American politics. He had a successful term as Mayor of Carmel also. He'd have more of a clue about the issues than many posters on here. Sure, there's a bit of populism and celebrity to the national conventions but it's not the case of rolling out someone just for the sake of it.

Maybe he does, but he didn't demonstrate it in his, er, performance.

I don't worry that politics in America is being dumbed down. It bothers me that in a two-party system, one of the parties has been captured by a lunatic fringe that wouldn't be within the margin of error of existing in the rest of the developed world.

The National Front got a pretty good showing in French presidential elections and it wasn't long ago that Austria elected the neo-nazi president, so there's no shortage of 'lunacy' in Europe too.
When was this? The current Austrian president was elected on a Social Democrats ticket. And the guy before him could hardly be described as a Neo-Nazi either.
Maybe a mix-up with the FPO's performance at the turn of the century which led to EU sanctions?

Yes, that's what I was thinking of, sorry he wasn't President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 13, 2012, 03:56:10 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on September 10, 2012, 11:57:06 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 10, 2012, 04:39:25 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 10, 2012, 12:08:03 PM
You may have a point, but these conventions where celebs are wheeled out for a few lovely words just reek of populist bullshit to me.

What makes people think the Clint Eastwood would have a clue about the US economy or foreign policy? What has he and his ilk on the Democrats side got to offer?

Eastwood has long been vocal and involved in American politics. He had a successful term as Mayor of Carmel also. He'd have more of a clue about the issues than many posters on here. Sure, there's a bit of populism and celebrity to the national conventions but it's not the case of rolling out someone just for the sake of it.

The juxtaposition of Carmel/Pebble Beach and the nearby agricultural areas around Salinas is very striking. Carmel is filthy rich whilst a few miles down the road mexicans pick salad leaves for a pittance

So to be rich is wrong and bad and all Mexicans pick salad leaves for a living and earn feck all? does that cover it?

Maybe they could stick to earning a pittance in their own country or maybe they could apply for visas and upon getting one, create a better life for themselves by getting better paying work.

The democrats are going to bankrupt this country once and for all, the republicans are going to continue protecting the rich and you could not make a decent cabinet from the lot of them never mind a president.

Special interest groups and lobbyists are killing this country alongside the fact that Obama has doubled the level of national debt.

9/11 came and went without a word on here..............

Mad Muslims wrecking around the american embassy in Yemen and not a word.

Finally for that tyrone tit, the only time I shout at the TV is when Armagh are playing, just because I disagree with 99% of you politically does not make me a lunatic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 14, 2012, 02:54:07 PM
Quote from: stew on September 13, 2012, 03:56:10 PM
maybe they could apply for visas and upon getting one, create a better life for themselves by getting better paying work

What visa would you suggest they apply for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 14, 2012, 05:59:50 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 14, 2012, 02:54:07 PM
Quote from: stew on September 13, 2012, 03:56:10 PM
maybe they could apply for visas and upon getting one, create a better life for themselves by getting better paying work

What visa would you suggest they apply for?

Off the top of my head they could apply for a J 1 visa, a H1 or H2 Visa, they can get a visa if they are engaged to a yank or call me old fashioned but I believe they are entitled to apply for a Green Card.


I am sure there are a lot more, those are the one's I know about.

By the way, one of these even allows for migrant workers to work in the US of A, yet many choose not to do the right thing and apply, why is that? surely it is not because of taxation!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 14, 2012, 07:01:03 PM
Quote from: stew on September 14, 2012, 05:59:50 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 14, 2012, 02:54:07 PM

What visa would you suggest they apply for?

Off the top of my head they could apply for a J 1 visa, a H1 or H2 Visa, they can get a visa if they are engaged to a yank or call me old fashioned but I believe they are entitled to apply for a Green Card.

none of the work visas you mention can be applied for by a person, they are applied for by a sponsoring company on behalf of someone they wish to train (J-1) or someone they wish to employ (H1&H2). In order to employ them they must meet a certain qualification criteria, get Labor certification and also make sure that they apply in time. Those visas are issued twice a year, and come into effect 6 months later. For example H1 has a quota and matching criteria when applications are opened in March for the September release. So your employer would have to apply by registered delivery in the first couple of days of the window (so that the quota isn't filled) and be prepared to wait until September for you to enter the country legally. For a H1, the quota has been filled in the first week of the release being opened for the last 4 years. On some occasions in the first day. For a sponsoring employer, the H1 runs about $13,000 per application including lawyers fees and you must as an employer prove you cant find similar applicants willing to do the work for the same money in the US. So you must also advertise the post in a suitable forum, local newspaper and the web.

There is of course the Diversity Lottery, where 14 million people worldwide apply for 50,000 visas a year?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 15, 2012, 03:51:25 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 14, 2012, 07:01:03 PM
Quote from: stew on September 14, 2012, 05:59:50 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 14, 2012, 02:54:07 PM

What visa would you suggest they apply for?

Off the top of my head they could apply for a J 1 visa, a H1 or H2 Visa, they can get a visa if they are engaged to a yank or call me old fashioned but I believe they are entitled to apply for a Green Card.

none of the work visas you mention can be applied for by a person, they are applied for by a sponsoring company on behalf of someone they wish to train (J-1) or someone they wish to employ (H1&H2). In order to employ them they must meet a certain qualification criteria, get Labor certification and also make sure that they apply in time. Those visas are issued twice a year, and come into effect 6 months later. For example H1 has a quota and matching criteria when applications are opened in March for the September release. So your employer would have to apply by registered delivery in the first couple of days of the window (so that the quota isn't filled) and be prepared to wait until September for you to enter the country legally. For a H1, the quota has been filled in the first week of the release being opened for the last 4 years. On some occasions in the first day. For a sponsoring employer, the H1 runs about $13,000 per application including lawyers fees and you must as an employer prove you cant find similar applicants willing to do the work for the same money in the US. So you must also advertise the post in a suitable forum, local newspaper and the web.

There is of course the Diversity Lottery, where 14 million people worldwide apply for 50,000 visas.

There are also bills from time to time like the Donnelly Visa's that help people to get here.

Migrant workers should get first crack at coming on a permanent basis since they already work in the States and they cant seem to get unemployed yanks to do the work in the fields.

Why should the Government be responsible to pay for unemployed Americans to sit on their hole when there are jobs to be had?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 16, 2012, 05:58:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 14, 2012, 07:01:03 PM
Quote from: stew on September 14, 2012, 05:59:50 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 14, 2012, 02:54:07 PM

What visa would you suggest they apply for?

Off the top of my head they could apply for a J 1 visa, a H1 or H2 Visa, they can get a visa if they are engaged to a yank or call me old fashioned but I believe they are entitled to apply for a Green Card.

none of the work visas you mention can be applied for by a person, they are applied for by a sponsoring company on behalf of someone they wish to train (J-1) or someone they wish to employ (H1&H2). In order to employ them they must meet a certain qualification criteria, get Labor certification and also make sure that they apply in time. Those visas are issued twice a year, and come into effect 6 months later. For example H1 has a quota and matching criteria when applications are opened in March for the September release. So your employer would have to apply by registered delivery in the first couple of days of the window (so that the quota isn't filled) and be prepared to wait until September for you to enter the country legally. For a H1, the quota has been filled in the first week of the release being opened for the last 4 years. On some occasions in the first day. For a sponsoring employer, the H1 runs about $13,000 per application including lawyers fees and you must as an employer prove you cant find similar applicants willing to do the work for the same money in the US. So you must also advertise the post in a suitable forum, local newspaper and the web.

There is of course the Diversity Lottery, where 14 million people worldwide apply for 50,000 visas a year?

Spot on.  I went through the H1-B palaver and then had to jump through another marathon of legal hoops and wait six years for my green card. Cost me about $5000 in lawyers' fees.  The people who use the magic "just" and say "just" enter the country legally have obviously never had to do so themselves unless they were born here or got in via some convenient route like the DV lottery back in the days when any Irishman that applied for it got it. I shudder to think what the government's immigration bureaucracy is costing the taxpayer. A Mexican manual laborer doesn't stand a chance against a system like that, no wonder they're streaming in illegally.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on September 16, 2012, 05:22:06 PM
Reminds me of a joke they used to tell in CA.

Why didn't Mexico win any medals at the olympics?



Cos anyone who can run jump or swim has already legged it across the border.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 17, 2012, 02:31:50 PM
I was able to manage the paperwork myself and didn't have to hire lawyers but there are fees at various stages to be paid that a lot of people would struggle with. All the examples explained would prove that immigration into this country is extremely difficult. Even for the lads who have the means and do it the right way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 17, 2012, 04:56:23 PM
Iceman,
you came in through family though right?

For the work related visas, most firms (in my experience) won't let you handle your own applications or Labor certifications.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 17, 2012, 09:05:42 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 17, 2012, 04:56:23 PM
Iceman,
you came in through family though right?

For the work related visas, most firms (in my experience) won't let you handle your own applications or Labor certifications.

Aye thats right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on September 18, 2012, 08:30:16 AM
Isn't it amazing when the mask slips from Romney and the GOP? - Utter disdain for the ordinary citizen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on September 18, 2012, 09:27:12 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 18, 2012, 08:30:16 AM
Isn't it amazing when the mask slips from Romney and the GOP? - Utter disdain for the ordinary citizen

I can understand it from Romney. He is a man who has built his fortune as a real-life Gordon Gekko so you could argue he's being true to himself. What I can't understand is the many people actively involved in the GOP, let alone passive voters, who avail of Medicare and Social Security (people like Ayn Rand (http://www.alternet.org/story/149721/ayn_rand_railed_against_government_benefits%2C_but_grabbed_social_security_and_medicare_when_she_needed_them), ho ho), and are in government jobs, and are working towards destroying their own lives. WTF?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 18, 2012, 01:35:30 PM
Romney is a liability

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4AqWqC6poM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 28, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
Samuel L Jackson ad to get out the vote for Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtS17xcr-U
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 28, 2012, 09:31:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
Samuel L Jackson ad to get out the vote for Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtS17xcr-U

Samuel L Jackson just wants to keep a black man as the President, he does not give two shites about his policies, he votes for the black guy.

Pretty fecked up way of choosing a President I think.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2012, 10:47:44 PM
"It's even worse than it looks" - the Republican Party 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-4-2012/exclusive---norman-j--ornstein---thomas-e--mann-extended-interview-pt--1

Norm Ornstein is no Socialist but he says

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/hendrikhertzberg/2012/05/mann-and-ornstein.html#ixzz27gF6QQ4A

"We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional. In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party.

The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition. When one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal constructively with the country's challenges.

"Both sides do it" or "There is plenty of blame to go around" are the traditional refuges for an American news media intent on proving its lack of bias, while political scientists prefer generality and neutrality when discussing partisan polarization. Many self-styled bipartisan groups, in their search for common ground, propose solutions that move both sides to the center, a strategy that is simply untenable when one side is so far out of reach."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 28, 2012, 11:20:20 PM
When did the Democratic party go from being the bastion of Southern Jim Crow laws to to being the first choice for the black vote?

When did the Republican party go from being the party of emancipation and equality to being the party of big business?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 29, 2012, 09:46:03 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 28, 2012, 11:20:20 PM
When did the Democratic party go from being the bastion of Southern Jim Crow laws to to being the first choice for the black vote?

When did the Republican party go from being the party of emancipation and equality to being the party of big business?
I think the Democrats lost the white South in 1968 and that's when they started to get the black votes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 29, 2012, 05:02:45 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2012, 09:31:35 PM


Samuel L Jackson just wants to keep a black man as the President, he does not give two shites about his policies, he votes for the black guy.

Pretty fecked up way of choosing a President I think.

Aye really, was he saying that somewhere? Must have missed it.

Or was he telling you himself over a beer some night?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 29, 2012, 08:12:56 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2012, 09:31:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
Samuel L Jackson ad to get out the vote for Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtS17xcr-U

Samuel L Jackson just wants to keep a black man as the President, he does not give two shites about his policies, he votes for the black guy.

Pretty fecked up way of choosing a President I think.

So I take you'll be voting for the white guy then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 29, 2012, 08:16:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 18, 2012, 09:27:12 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 18, 2012, 08:30:16 AM
Isn't it amazing when the mask slips from Romney and the GOP? - Utter disdain for the ordinary citizen

I can understand it from Romney. He is a man who has built his fortune as a real-life Gordon Gekko so you could argue he's being true to himself. What I can't understand is the many people actively involved in the GOP, let alone passive voters, who avail of Medicare and Social Security (people like Ayn Rand (http://www.alternet.org/story/149721/ayn_rand_railed_against_government_benefits%2C_but_grabbed_social_security_and_medicare_when_she_needed_them), ho ho), and are in government jobs, and are working towards destroying their own lives. WTF?

Romney's not being true to himself at all. He was a pretty centrist governor, reasonable center-right fiscal policy, set up state health-care and no 'social' issues BS. A guy that could have attracted plenty of independents. But that guy wouldn't have a prayer in a Republican primary, so he disappeared and was replaced by the current iteration of Mitt, who has sold his values to the lunatics on the right presently running the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2012, 03:20:14 AM
I don't know what the answer is for the GOP. Maybe there'll be a backlash against the Tea Party/ignoramous/evangelical madness and the sensible wing of the party (of the George HW Bush or Reagan type) will re-take control.  Could happen.  With the country filling with immigrants we might see a shunt back towards the left in politics in general.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 30, 2012, 06:56:42 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 29, 2012, 05:02:45 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2012, 09:31:35 PM


Samuel L Jackson just wants to keep a black man as the President, he does not give two shites about his policies, he votes for the black guy.

Pretty fecked up way of choosing a President I think.

Aye really, was he saying that somewhere? Must have missed it.

Or was he telling you himself over a beer some night?

You missed it, he was interviewed and said exactly what I said he did and he made no apologies for it!

You are one passive aggressive wee git heganbhoy. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 30, 2012, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on September 29, 2012, 08:12:56 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2012, 09:31:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
Samuel L Jackson ad to get out the vote for Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtS17xcr-U

Samuel L Jackson just wants to keep a black man as the President, he does not give two shites about his policies, he votes for the black guy.

Pretty fecked up way of choosing a President I think.

So I take you'll be voting for the white guy then?

I am Irish, I dont get a vote, I think they are both shite and I dont give a damn what color a man is, I despise the looney left and hate what Obamanation has done to the USA in terms of the national debt, he is a horror story and needs to be stopped, unfortunately Romney is not the man to do it.

America is clean fecked no matter who gets in, they both suck!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 01, 2012, 02:39:58 AM
Quote from: stew on September 30, 2012, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on September 29, 2012, 08:12:56 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2012, 09:31:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
Samuel L Jackson ad to get out the vote for Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtS17xcr-U

Samuel L Jackson just wants to keep a black man as the President, he does not give two shites about his policies, he votes for the black guy.

Pretty fecked up way of choosing a President I think.

So I take you'll be voting for the white guy then?

I am Irish, I dont get a vote, I think they are both shite and I dont give a damn what color a man is, I despise the looney left and hate what Obamanation has done to the USA in terms of the national debt, he is a horror story and needs to be stopped, unfortunately Romney is not the man to do it.

America is clean fecked no matter who gets in, they both suck!

So do you think the US should have gone the European austerity route then Stew?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 01, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
The idea that both parties are the same in America is laughable. One party wants to eliminate all forms of social welfare. The other wants to maintain the status quo. Whatever you think of America, you can't say Americans don't have a choice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 01, 2012, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: deiseach on October 01, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
The idea that both parties are the same in America is laughable. One party wants to eliminate all forms of social welfare. The other wants to maintain the status quo. Whatever you think of America, you can't say Americans don't have a choice.

The war party has a liberal wing and a nut conservative wing. They answer to the plutocrats.

I think the US political system is broken at this stage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 01, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2012, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: deiseach on October 01, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
The idea that both parties are the same in America is laughable. One party wants to eliminate all forms of social welfare. The other wants to maintain the status quo. Whatever you think of America, you can't say Americans don't have a choice.

The war party has a [NUT[]t liberal wing and a nut conservative wing. They answer to the plutocrats.

I think the US political system is broken at this stage

Why is it that the war party has a liberal wing and a nut conservative wing?  are liberals incapable of being a nut?

The US system has been broken for quite a while, I would love to see the people of America have more than two horrible choices.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 01, 2012, 05:22:15 PM
Quote from: stew on October 01, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2012, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: deiseach on October 01, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
The idea that both parties are the same in America is laughable. One party wants to eliminate all forms of social welfare. The other wants to maintain the status quo. Whatever you think of America, you can't say Americans don't have a choice.

The war party has a [NUT[]t liberal wing and a nut conservative wing. They answer to the plutocrats.

I think the US political system is broken at this stage

Why is it that the war party has a liberal wing and a nut conservative wing?  are liberals incapable of being a nut?

The US system has been broken for quite a while, I would love to see the people of America have more than two horrible choices.

The Republicans are nuts now, Stew. Between birthers, Paul Ryan, the MILF wing with Palin and Bachmann and the Tea party they are a right crowd of clowns.  All the decent moderates have been hounded out by the extremists. They'll force the US over the funding cliff in December. They were responsible for the downgrade last year through their intransigence. 

And the American people deserve way better. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 01, 2012, 06:03:40 PM
Quote from: stew on September 30, 2012, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on September 29, 2012, 08:12:56 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2012, 09:31:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
Samuel L Jackson ad to get out the vote for Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtS17xcr-U

Samuel L Jackson just wants to keep a black man as the President, he does not give two shites about his policies, he votes for the black guy.

Pretty fecked up way of choosing a President I think.

So I take you'll be voting for the white guy then?

I am Irish, I dont get a vote, I think they are both shite and I dont give a damn what color a man is, I despise the looney left and hate what Obamanation has done to the USA in terms of the national debt, he is a horror story and needs to be stopped, unfortunately Romney is not the man to do it.

America is clean fecked no matter who gets in, they both suck!

You should get your citizenship sorted out, seems like voting might help get rid of sme of your frustrations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dodgy umpire on October 03, 2012, 04:59:34 PM
Does anyone know where I can watch the debates?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 03, 2012, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 01, 2012, 06:03:40 PM
Quote from: stew on September 30, 2012, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on September 29, 2012, 08:12:56 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2012, 09:31:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
Samuel L Jackson ad to get out the vote for Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtS17xcr-U

Samuel L Jackson just wants to keep a black man as the President, he does not give two shites about his policies, he votes for the black guy.

Pretty fecked up way of choosing a President I think.

So I take you'll be voting for the white guy then?

I am Irish, I dont get a vote, I think they are both shite and I dont give a damn what color a man is, I despise the looney left and hate what Obamanation has done to the USA in terms of the national debt, he is a horror story and needs to be stopped, unfortunately Romney is not the man to do it.

America is clean fecked no matter who gets in, they both suck!

You should get your citizenship sorted out, seems like voting might help get rid of sme of your frustrations.

Eh, I am Irish, should I be happy Obama is arse f**king the American economy??? Is that what you want you numpty?

I owe Ireland nothing, ireland owes me nothing, I love the country and am fcuked if I know why?????

Pertaining to America, the liberals are going to ruin the country, the neo conseratives are going to ruin the country...............basically the country is fecked, do you get it now?????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 03, 2012, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: stew on October 03, 2012, 05:34:25 PM

Pertaining to America, the liberals are going to ruin the country, the neo conseratives are going to ruin the country...............basically the country is fecked

Ladies and Gentlemen- me and Stew in complete agreement on American politics- a first

Now,  where do we find some bollocks that is smart enough to run the country in a way that suits the 95% that don't fall into either camp, but are choosing between these two lesser of two evils, but also  someone dumb enough to want to do the job?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2012, 07:21:45 PM
Absolutely, but the difference for me is that the Republicans have no redeeming features at all. Democrats are poor enough, but at least they aren't mired in anti-intellectualism, pseudoscience, callousness and bigotry.  Obama has not been good, but the Republicans have been a complete and utter disgrace over the past few years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 03, 2012, 08:08:27 PM
"Anti-intellectualism, pseudoscience, callousness and bigotry."  A splendid synopsis.  Given their attempts to disenfrachise whole chunks of the electorate, I'd add to that list "cheating" (probably a sub-section of bigotry).  Wonder if Chad will be hanging about this time around. Not exactly enamored with the Democrats, but I sure loathe the Republicans.  Can't wait to hear Romney's pre-rehearsed ad-libs this evening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 03, 2012, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 03, 2012, 08:08:27 PM
"Anti-intellectualism, pseudoscience, callousness and bigotry."  A splendid synopsis.  Given their attempts to disenfrachise whole chunks of the electorate, I'd add to that list "cheating" (probably a sub-section of bigotry).  Wonder if Chad will be hanging about this time around. Not exactly enamored with the Democrats, but I sure loathe the Republicans.  Can't wait to hear Romney's pre-rehearsed ad-libs this evening.

"A splendid synopsis" my arse orais............... Obama has this country on the road to ruin, he has added 5 trillion to the defecit, how the hell can one man justify that in under four years????

I know plenty of republican supporters who are the salt of the earth, same goes for the democrats but if the clown that is Obama gets four more years this country will sneeze, and the rest of the world will catch a cold.

Obama is every bit as slick as Clinton minus the performance, he has been awful on the economy and he and his party should be held accountable for the absolutely shitty job they have done over the past four years. ( They will win it going away)

I am resigned to the democrats winning again, I know teachers etc, union member types want Obama to win, good for them, the fact is that if America is to get out of this mess it has to start with cutbacks in spending, the national debt needs to get culled and government needs to get smaller, a lot smaller, the military  needs to get hit financially and all non essential government funded projects also need to get culled, there is far too much wasted funding. All of that is just the start, the Yanks need to ensure they stop hemorrhaging jobs to overseas companies and they need to inflict heavy taxes on companies who outsource jobs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2012, 05:14:44 AM
Jesus! I listened to the first part of the debate on the radio and even then it sounded like Obama was under pressure, I could have sworn I heard his voice shaking. Never mentioned the 47%, never mentioned the Cayman Islands, never mentioned the tax returns. Romney got off lightly and came out on top of this one, it's like he was in charge of the whole show. There might be hope for his campaign yet, especially if his GOP friends get away with the voter suppression in enough swing states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 04, 2012, 05:18:38 AM
Ah, c'mon, Stew,  First, it's not that I want Obama to win so much as I want Romney and his menagerie to lose.  And, of course, not ALL Republicans are Neanderthals, but a disturbingly large chunk of them are.  Look at J70's four descriptors, and tell me they aren't on the money for a significant slice of the FoxNews-teat-sucking birther brigade.

It's late, and I just watched Romney open a can of whoop-ass on Obama, so don't be so despondent about the future, but don't you recall the likes of Santorum mocking the elitist snobbery of higher education, or the crazy ignorance of crackpots like Akin and his theories about the female body's miraculous ability to distinguish rape sperm, or the biblical literalists who don't believe evolution and believe humans jaunted around on dinosaurs, or Irish-Catholic Paul Ryan, whose Messiah is not Jesus but Ayn Rand with her philosophy of  laissez-faire self-interest (French translates as I'm all right, screw you), or the systematic attempts to steal people's right to vote, a ploy that would make many's an Ulster Unionist blush orange with pride.

And Romney's willingness to say anything at all to win.  C'mon, Stew, time to leave Devlin's and head on out the Loughgall Road, though I suppose heading to Loughgall is the right way to to the heart of bible-thumping intolerance.

And by the way, c'mon the Ogs and beat Cross, but if they don't, c'mon Cross and beat everyone else.  How Romneyesque of me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on October 04, 2012, 06:01:49 AM
Quote of the Debate
"I have a friend who said, 'you don't just pick the winners and losers – you pick the losers,'"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 04, 2012, 07:57:44 AM
stew
Hero Member

Posts: 3974


Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...

« Reply #1319 on: October 03, 2012, 10:47:51 PM »

Quote




Quote from: Oraisteach on October 03, 2012, 08:08:27 PM

"Anti-intellectualism, pseudoscience, callousness and bigotry."  A splendid synopsis.  Given their attempts to disenfrachise whole chunks of the electorate, I'd add to that list "cheating" (probably a sub-section of bigotry).  Wonder if Chad will be hanging about this time around. Not exactly enamored with the Democrats, but I sure loathe the Republicans.  Can't wait to hear Romney's pre-rehearsed ad-libs this evening.


"A splendid synopsis" my arse orais............... Obama has this country on the road to ruin, he has added 5 trillion to the defecit, how the hell can one man justify that in under four years?

Bit disengenuous there Stew you are crediting/attributing Bush's Wars and his tax cuts to Obama

I know plenty of republican supporters who are the salt of the earth, same goes for the democrats but if the clown that is Obama gets four more years this country will sneeze, and the rest of the world will catch a cold.

Whaaaaaaa? I know lots of salt of the earth people on both sides.. ergo I can say anything I choose about anybody on either side.

Obama is every bit as slick as Clinton minus the performance, he has been awful on the economy and he and his party should be held accountable for the absolutely shitty job they have done over the past four years. ( They will win it going away)

What are you talking about?
Obama and his party have been trying to dig us out of a hole that Republican party, trickle down economics (and denials that you are a not Republican are not acceptable given your rhetorical track record) have exploded us into.  Despite the intransigence of Mitch McConnelll's troops they keep trying to promote job creation ( Auto industry bailout). With a bit of co-operation and a more enthusiastic government investment program we would be looking at a more robust recovery. If you cared to look at the country that birthed you, you will notice that the place would still be in the 19th century had it not been for the ESB, IDA, Bord Bainne, Bord na Mona (all government promoted). Government is not the problem. Disrespect for what the government can do to contribute to economic growth is the problem. Regan has a lot to answer for ( His Government bad Private sector good mantra has been polarising the US for 30 years)  but now that he has been beatified who cares about the facts.

I am resigned to the democrats winning again, I know teachers etc, union member types want Obama to win, good for them, the fact is that if America is to get out of this mess it has to start with cutbacks in spending, the national debt needs to get culled and government needs to get smaller, a lot smaller, the military  needs to get hit financially and all non essential government funded projects also need to get culled, there is far too much wasted funding. All of that is just the start, the Yanks need to ensure they stop hemorrhaging jobs to overseas companies and they need to inflict heavy taxes on companies who outsource jobs.

Stew: How many hours have you spent in the classroom teaching?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 04, 2012, 09:15:15 AM
The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 04, 2012, 10:28:22 AM
Here's one reason for that big deficit

Iraq: Ten Years, a Million Lives and Trillions of Dollars Later
Time for Truth and Reconciliation

by Dennis Kucinich
Ten years ago today the debate over the Iraq War came to Congress in the form of a resolution promoted by the Bush Administration. The war in Iraq will cost the United States as much as $5 trillion. It played a role in spurring the global financial crisis. Four thousand, four hundred, eighty eight Americans were killed. More than 33,000 were injured.
American soldiers during an operation in Zabul Province in 2006. (Photo: Tyler Hicks/NYT)

As many as 1,000,000 innocent Iraqi civilians were killed. The monetary cost of the war to Iraq is incalculable. A sectarian civil war has ravaged Iraq for nearly a decade. Iraq has become home to Al Qaeda.

The war in Iraq was sold to Congress and the American people with easily disproved lies. We must learn from this dark period in American history to ensure that we do not repeat the same mistakes. And we must hold accountable those who misled the American public.

On October 2, 2002, the day the legislation to authorize war in Iraq was introduced, I sent and personally distributed a memo to my colleagues in Congress refuting point-by-point every reason given by the Bush Administration to go to war.

On October 3, 2002, I held a press conference with 25 Members of Congress and then presented an hour long explanation to Congress on the House Floor, refuting the lies upon which the cause of war was predicated.

It was clear from information publicly available at the time that Iraq did not have Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs), that Iraq had no connection to 9/11, and that Iraq was not a threat to the United States. Anyone who wanted to look could have seen the same information that I did.

Yet some of America's top political leaders bought into the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld drumbeat of war. Two leading Democrats were among those taken in by the White House hype and the WMD argument:

"I believe the facts that have brought us to this fateful vote are not in doubt. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who has tortured and killed his own people ... ntelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists including Al Qaeda members." Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY), October 10, 2002.

"September 11 was the ultimate wake-up call. We must now do everything in our power to prevent further terrorist attacks and ensure that an attack with a weapon of mass destruction cannot happen. ... the first candidate we must worry about is Iraq... [Saddam Hussein] continues to develop weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear devices." Leader of the Democratic Caucus in the House, Richard Gephardt (D-MO), October 10, 2002.

Even the most trusted newspapers around the country blindly repeated as fact grossly incorrect assertions by leaders of both parties.

"No further debate is needed to establish that Saddam Hussein is an evil dictator whose continued effort to build unconventional weapons in defiance of clear United Nations prohibitions threatens the Middle East and beyond." The New York Times, Editorial Board, October 3, 2002.

Notwithstanding the blizzard of disinformation, one hundred thirty three Members of Congress voted against the resolution that authorized the use of military force in Iraq, including nearly two-thirds of the Democratic Caucus in the House. Seven Republicans, including Ron Paul (R-TX), also voted against the resolution. In the Senate, the vote was 77 to 23 in favor of a war of choice.

Ten years ago Congress voted to wage war on a nation that did not attack us. That decision undermined our fiscal and national security. To this day we are suffering from the blowback. While most of the troops are home, the United States maintains a significant presence in Iraq through the State Department and its thousands of private security contractors.

The war against Iraq was based on lies. Thousands of Americans and perhaps a million Iraqis were sacrificed for those lies. The war in Afghanistan continues. New wars have been propagated in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia pursuant to the never-ending "War on Terror". This mindset puts us at the edge of war against Iran. Ten years and trillions of dollars later, the American people by and large still do not know the truth. It is time to usher in a new period of truth and reconciliation.

© 2012 Congressman Dennis Kucinich
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 04, 2012, 11:17:00 AM
Quote from: deiseach on October 04, 2012, 09:15:15 AM
The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.

Obama just looked like he didn't want to be there. Hardly defended himself or challenged Romney forcefully at all. Given that these things are all about style and "zingers" (it says so much about political campaigns and viewers that smartarse lines always win out over substance), Romney looked far, far more prepared and in command of his material (I won't say facts!) and won this one easily. It reminded me a lot of the first Bush-Kerry debate in 2004, when the sitting president had an awful night. Maybe the challenger just has more time to prepare and polish his performance. Whatever it is, Obama better get his shit together, and fast.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on October 04, 2012, 02:02:12 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 04, 2012, 09:15:15 AM
The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.

Watched most of it and I didn't think Romney was great to be honest but it was probably the worst performnace I've ever seen Obama give on camera. He was stumbling over his words fairly regularly and even seemed a bit under-prepared.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 04, 2012, 03:39:47 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 04, 2012, 05:18:38 AM
Ah, c'mon, Stew,  First, it's not that I want Obama to win so much as I want Romney and his menagerie to lose.  And, of course, not ALL Republicans are Neanderthals, but a disturbingly large chunk of them are.  Look at J70's four descriptors, and tell me they aren't on the money for a significant slice of the FoxNews-teat-sucking birther brigade.

It's late, and I just watched Romney open a can of whoop-ass on Obama, so don't be so despondent about the future, but don't you recall the likes of Santorum mocking the elitist snobbery of higher education, or the crazy ignorance of crackpots like Akin and his theories about the female body's miraculous ability to distinguish rape sperm, or the biblical literalists who don't believe evolution and believe humans jaunted around on dinosaurs, or Irish-Catholic Paul Ryan, whose Messiah is not Jesus but Ayn Rand with her philosophy of  laissez-faire self-interest (French translates as I'm all right, screw you), or the systematic attempts to steal people's right to vote, a ploy that would make many's an Ulster Unionist blush orange with pride.

And Romney's willingness to say anything at all to win.  C'mon, Stew, time to leave Devlin's and head on out the Loughgall Road, though I suppose heading to Loughgall is the right way to to the heart of bible-thumping intolerance.

And by the way, c'mon the Ogs and beat Cross, but if they don't, c'mon Cross and beat everyone else.  How Romneyesque of me.

Orais, you want a man who has the USA spending 42% of the budget on the Government, that is the same figure as one of the pigs............Spain! How is he the right man for the job on that fact alone.

Obama has cost the Country 23,000,000 jobs in four years, he has absolutely no clu what he is doing with the economy and he has been an absolute disgrace, on the other hand Romney has created jobs, he has headed up the rise in Massachusetts pertaining to education, as he repeatedly said last night, that State is the number 1 state in the country. Orais, how can you justify voting for a man that has the country on the brink of ruin because he is clueless on how to fix the national debt and in fact added one and a quarter trillion for every year he was in office? How can you vote for a man that has added 23,000,000 people to the unemployment line.

I watched the whole thing on NBC because I did not want to hear about Fox, even they conceeded that Obama got abused and their own polls had 67% to 25% in favor of Romney, Obama looked tired and completely dropped the ball in getting at Romneys weaknesses, the 47% thing and the failure to attack his gaffes of which there are plenty.

Obama is brilliant in front of a teleprompter, when he had to man up and engage a good debater he crawled into a hole and he couldnt even look up and look Romney in the eye, in short he sucked and I am absolutely delighted.

The liberals on here should watch that debate and be honest with themselves, he has been an abomination and he is destroying the ery fabric of this great country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 04, 2012, 03:55:15 PM
No reason to get Citizenship now Stew. Romney won't need your vote after that performance....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 04, 2012, 04:01:43 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 04, 2012, 02:02:12 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 04, 2012, 09:15:15 AM
The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.

Watched most of it and I didn't think Romney was great to be honest but it was probably the worst performance I've ever seen Obama give on camera. He was stumbling over his words fairly regularly and even seemed a bit under-prepared.


That's the thing, Romney was great, he absolutely abused Obama, the polls show that, it was a disgraceful performance by the President, he was that bad because he cannot argue with the job he and his party has done.

As for the wars in the middle east, the US went in to iraq under false pretenses when Bush was the President, he got rid of Saddam and his ugly government  and he kicked Iraq out of another country they invaded. Nothing justifies what Bush did, nothing, he was a terrible President yet here is the thing, the USA has been involved in many wars, both republican and democrat Presidents have dropped the hammer and it was a Democratic President who dropped the bombs on Japan.

Obama had it right when he apologized to the American people for losing touch with them two years in...........two years later he is even more out of touch with his people.

He bailed out the top five banks because he said "they are too big to fail" what he did not say is that had a negative impact on more that 200 smaller banks that went tits up, as usual he half assed the job just like he did when he give Wall street money and the fat cats took the money and gave themselves a big fat bonus, he was not intelligent enough to think about making the money conditional upon no bonus money would be paid from those monies, come to think of it neither did his cabinet and advisors, i think that sums this dude up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 04, 2012, 04:08:09 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 04, 2012, 03:55:15 PM
No reason to get Citizenship now Stew. Romney won't need your vote after that performance....

Romney has no chance, I challenge any one of you lads to defend Obama on  his record while in office.

What scares me is that Romney wants to spend two trillion more on the military in his term should he get elected, that is madness in itself, if he wants to spend money he should spend it on securing Americas borders and stay the hell away from wars.

The States should not go to war unless they go in to a foreign country under the UN banner, it is time they stop fighting wars and time they did what Clinton did, focus much of the energy on domestic issues, that is what these guys have to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 04, 2012, 04:56:30 PM
How can you say Obama lost 23 million jobs when the economy was shedding 3/4 million jobs per month when he took office and has been adding jobs, albeit slowly, for the past couple of years?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 04, 2012, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2012, 04:56:30 PM
How can you say Obama loser 23 million jobs when the economy was shedding 3/4 million jobs per month when he took office and has been adding bombs, albeit smelly, for the past couple of years?

That is a lie!

Obama hung is head when hit with those facts last night, he had no response to that, he had many opportunities to fight back but he is so piss poor economically that he neither had the facts and he knows himself he is a blowhard, he stinks.

I wanted him to be great and defended him right out of the gate but his is going to go down as one of the worst ever......EVER.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 04, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
Stew,
how did Obama lose 23 million jobs- where are you getting this number?
Thanks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2012, 05:19:25 PM
Quote from: stew on October 04, 2012, 04:01:43 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 04, 2012, 02:02:12 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 04, 2012, 09:15:15 AM
The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.

Watched most of it and I didn't think Romney was great to be honest but it was probably the worst performance I've ever seen Obama give on camera. He was stumbling over his words fairly regularly and even seemed a bit under-prepared.


That's the thing, Romney was great, he absolutely abused Obama, the polls show that, it was a disgraceful performance by the President, he was that bad because he cannot argue with the job he and his party has done.

As for the wars in the middle east, the US went in to iraq under false pretenses when Bush was the President, he got rid of Saddam and his ugly government  and he kicked Iraq out of another country they invaded. Nothing justifies what Bush did, nothing, he was a terrible President yet here is the thing, the USA has been involved in many wars, both republican and democrat Presidents have dropped the hammer and it was a Democratic President who dropped the bombs on Japan.

Obama had it right when he apologized to the American people for losing touch with them two years in...........two years later he is even more out of touch with his people.

He bailed out the top five banks because he said "they are too big to fail" what he did not say is that had a negative impact on more that 200 smaller banks that went tits up, as usual he half assed the job just like he did when he give Wall street money and the fat cats took the money and gave themselves a big fat bonus, he was not intelligent enough to think about making the money conditional upon no bonus money would be paid from those monies, come to think of it neither did his cabinet and advisors, i think that sums this dude up.
Bush bailed out the banks, Stew

It's not as if there is any difference between the Dems and the republicans in terms of bending over for the plutocrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on October 04, 2012, 05:30:24 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 04, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
Stew,
how did Obama lose 23 million jobs- where are you getting this number?
Thanks

As far as I can make out from the US Bureau of Labour Statistics data, the labour force in January 2009, at the time of Obama's inauguration, was 154.6 million and the unemployment rate was 7.8%, meaning there were 12 million unemployed, approximately.

Today, the labour force is 154.2 million, approximately and the unemployment rate is 8.1%, meaning there are approximately 12.5 million unemployed, or half a million more than when Obama took office.

Unemployment reached a peak of 10% of a workforce of 153.8 million, i.e. 15.4 million unemployed, in October 2009, nine months into the Obama presidency. Since then, the number unemployed has fallen by 2.9 million.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 04, 2012, 05:41:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 04, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
Stew,
how did Obama lose 23 million jobs- where are you getting this number?
Thanks


One source was Romney last night, the President bowed his head and never once denied that these numbers, I have also seen various statistical sources that back that up, some go as low as 19 million, some as high as 25 mil.

the job figures come out tomorrow, I hope the number is way up.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 04, 2012, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: stew on October 04, 2012, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2012, 04:56:30 PM
How can you say Obama loser 23 million jobs when the economy was shedding 3/4 million jobs per month when he took office and has been adding bombs, albeit smelly, for the past couple of years?

That is a lie!

Obama hung is head when hit with those facts last night, he had no response to that, he had many opportunities to fight back but he is so piss poor economically that he neither had the facts and he knows himself he is a blowhard, he stinks.

I wanted him to be great and defended him right out of the gate but his is going to go down as one of the worst ever......EVER.

Which part is a lie?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on October 04, 2012, 06:01:46 PM
Quote from: stew on October 04, 2012, 05:41:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 04, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
Stew,
how did Obama lose 23 million jobs- where are you getting this number?
Thanks


One source was Romney last night, the President bowed his head and never once denied that these numbers, I have also seen various statistical sources that back that up, some go as low as 19 million, some as high as 25 mil.

the job figures come out tomorrow, I hope the number is way up.

You said he added 23,000,000 to the unemployment.
The 23m is the current total of unemployed, those who are part time but wish to be full time and others who are essentially not looking for work currently.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

check out the trend when obama took office - there was more than who was president at play - he joined during the massive spike.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 04, 2012, 07:28:11 PM
Let's not cloud the issue with facts and figures! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 05, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2012, 07:28:11 PM
Let's not cloud the issue with facts and figures! :)

Here is a fact for use un's, unemployment fell by 114,000.........................800,000 joined the workforce.

Unemployment is at 7.8%

If Romney was wrong why did Obama drop his head and not take him to task over his figures, it can be one of two reasons, either Romney was right OR Obama is too stupid to know the facts, it can only be one of the two.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 05, 2012, 03:24:12 PM
Maybe he didn't have time as they were allocated 2 minutes. Maybe he thought educated people would check the figures and find out and see Romney was blowing smoke. Maybe he understood that these debates won't really change that many people's votes.
Put up your hands lad and  admit you were wrong. For a man who can't even vote you are completely indoctrinated.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 05, 2012, 03:26:15 PM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2012, 07:28:11 PM
Let's not cloud the issue with facts and figures! :)

Here is a fact for use un's, unemployment fell by 114,000.........................800,000 joined the workforce.

Unemployment is at 7.8%

If Romney was wrong why did Obama drop his head and not take him to task over his figures, it can be one of two reasons, either Romney was right OR Obama is too stupid to know the facts, it can only be one of the two.

Why didn't Obama challenge Romney on some of his other "facts"? I'd love to know too. He had a dreadful night. Only he and his campaign know why. He was very similar to GW Bush in his first debate in 2004.

But back to my earlier question which you've ignored: in which part of my earlier post was I spreading lies?

Not sure what your other point is trying to prove. People lose and gain jobs in any month, no matter what the economic conditions. You'll have to elaborate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 05, 2012, 03:41:46 PM
Obama is stupid. Stupid for thinking that there is anyone in the present-day GOP who will not lie through their teeth to get their hate-filled way. Stupid for thinking that the media, obsessed with providing balance in a debate where one side are the equivalent of flat-earthers, would call out those lies. If he doesn't put a horseshoe in his gloves for the next debate, he deserves to lose.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 05, 2012, 03:42:59 PM
Published on Friday, October 5, 2012
Jobs Report Shows Unemployment Dips Below 8 Percent
At crucial political juncture, official jobless rate hits lowest since early 2009

The official US unemployment rate dropped to 7.8 percent in September, according to the latest jobs report released by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics today.
That's down 0.3 percentage points from the previous month, and the first time the number has dipped below 8 percent since January of 2009.
According to the report, overall payroll employment rose by 114,000, with most gains seen in the health care, transportation, and warehousing sectors.  Most other industries, including manufacturing, saw little or no improvement.
Reuters adds:
A survey of households from which the jobless rate is derived showed 873,000 job gains last month, the most since June 1983. The drop in unemployment came even as Americans come back into the labor force to resume the hunt for work. The workforce had shrank in the prior two months.

The household survey is volatile. A survey of business establishments showed employers added 114,000 jobs to their payrolls last month, a touch above economists' expectations for 113,000 jobs. Employment for July and August was revised to show 86,000 more jobs created than previous reported.

It was the second last report before the November 6 election that pits Obama against Republican Mitt Romney.

A Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Thursday after Wednesday's first presidential debate showed Romney gained ground and is now viewed positively by 51 percent of voters. Obama's favorability rating remained unchanged at 56 percent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 05, 2012, 03:49:10 PM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
[
Here is a fact for use un's, unemployment fell by 114,000.........................800,000 joined the workforce.

Unemployment is at 7.8%

If Romney was wrong why did Obama drop his head and not take him to task over his figures, it can be one of two reasons, either Romney was right OR Obama is too stupid to know the facts, it can only be one of the two.

Stew,
I think that Obama very purposefully did not go on the attack in that debate, as directed by Axelrod. I would assume he is saving the big guns for the third and final debate? But who knows?

so instead of those being the only two options, I'd say there are hundreds of different reasons why the President chose not to correct the Republican candidate...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 05, 2012, 04:00:48 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 05, 2012, 03:49:10 PM
Stew,
I think that Obama very purposefully did not go on the attack in that debate, as directed by Axelrod. I would assume he is saving the big guns for the third and final debate? But who knows?

so instead of those being the only two options, I'd say there are hundreds of different reasons why the President chose not to correct the Republican candidate...

I don't know why he'd feel the need to do that. There's going to a lot of repetition in these debates so why save something for later that can be used three times? You can be sure Romney will deny the facts until the c**k rooster crows.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on October 05, 2012, 04:01:13 PM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2012, 07:28:11 PM
Let's not cloud the issue with facts and figures! :)

Here is a fact for use un's, unemployment fell by 114,000.........................800,000 joined the workforce.

Unemployment is at 7.8%

If Romney was wrong why did Obama drop his head and not take him to task over his figures, it can be one of two reasons, either Romney was right OR Obama is too stupid to know the facts, it can only be one of the two.

Stew - how do you feel Romney comes out of this, given your opinion of how Obama has.

At best he has been willfully confusing with the figures - as evidenced by what you took from it for example. He intended for people to take your interpretation when he knew that what he was reporting was simply no the unemployment rate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 05, 2012, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: stew on October 03, 2012, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 01, 2012, 06:03:40 PM
Quote from: stew on September 30, 2012, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on September 29, 2012, 08:12:56 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2012, 09:31:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
Samuel L Jackson ad to get out the vote for Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtS17xcr-U

Samuel L Jackson just wants to keep a black man as the President, he does not give two shites about his policies, he votes for the black guy.

Pretty fecked up way of choosing a President I think.

So I take you'll be voting for the white guy then?

I am Irish, I dont get a vote, I think they are both shite and I dont give a damn what color a man is, I despise the looney left and hate what Obamanation has done to the USA in terms of the national debt, he is a horror story and needs to be stopped, unfortunately Romney is not the man to do it.

America is clean fecked no matter who gets in, they both suck!

You should get your citizenship sorted out, seems like voting might help get rid of sme of your frustrations.

Eh, I am Irish, should I be happy Obama is arse f**king the American economy??? Is that what you want you numpty?

I owe Ireland nothing, ireland owes me nothing, I love the country and am fcuked if I know why?????

Pertaining to America, the liberals are going to ruin the country, the neo conseratives are going to ruin the country...............basically the country is fecked, do you get it now?????

I don't understand a lot of what you are saying there. Are you saying you wouldn't take American citizenship because you want to maintain your Irish citizenship?
I will be eligible next year and will get mine, will look forward to voting. You seem to care a lot about the issues, to the point of getting wound up about them, don't understand why you wouldn't put yourself in a position to contribute to the decision making process in a more meaningful way than ranting on this board?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 05, 2012, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 05, 2012, 03:24:12 PM
Maybe he didn't have time as they were allocated 2 minutes. Maybe he thought educated people would check the figures and find out and see Romney was blowing smoke. Maybe he understood that these debates won't really change that many people's votes.
Put up your hands lad and  admit you were wrong. For a man who can't even vote you are completely indoctrinated.....

And you Mr liberal are not??? you are one arrogant hombre!

I don't believe any figures out there by either party, you watch CNN and they dole out figures and the one  pro republican news outlet gives completely another. What was interesting is that the Prez never once called Romney out on his numbers, why not??? is he capable of saying "Governor, those figures are wrong" in two minutes? is that two much to ask Iceman????

The job figures are interesting, the majority of these newly created jobs are government jobs according to CNN, a lot of them were also part time jobs out of these new positions.

Then there is the stink over the figures, I dont think he will be able to fudge the figures on November 2nd because the republicans think he is a lying bastid, and he is.

Two minutes my hole, he was running for far longer than that, yer man that hosted the debate let them go for four minutes before he called them out, and still they both droned on.

Should the president not have known the figures??? was that too much to ask of the leader of the USA, I tell you he is a nightmare.

Obamanation will get elected, unlike that liberal p***k redandblack and his missus I wont yap when he is elected again and threaten to go back home, i will suck it up and hate the fact that this tit is going to completely destroy the economy for future generations.

By the way, his running mate, that chube Biden must not even hav e listened to the debate as he is not on the same page with the prez......................... he said they were going to raise one trillion in taxes from the American people despite the prez saying differently, he is a real liability but not to the point were he will cost the prez the election.

I just hope that enough  republicans get the majority of the house/senate to stop Obamacare from raping the economy, by the way, the prez does not even understand it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 05, 2012, 05:08:42 PM
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

2008   5.0   4.9   5.1   5.0   5.4   5.6   5.8   6.1   6.1   6.5   6.8   7.3   
2009   7.8   8.3   8.7   8.9   9.4   9.5   9.5   9.6   9.8   10.0   9.9   9.9   
2010   9.7   9.8   9.8   9.9   9.6   9.4   9.5   9.6   9.5   9.5   9.8   9.4   
2011   9.1   9.0   8.9   9.0   9.0   9.1   9.1   9.1   9.0   8.9   8.7   8.5   
2012   8.3   8.3   8.2   8.1   8.2   8.2   8.3   8.1   7.8               

Over the course of Bushes last year unemployment went up from 4.9% to 7.8%. Less than a year into Obama's term it had maxed out in October 2009 and has been falling slowly since. It is now back down to where it was in Bush's last month January 2009.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 05, 2012, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2012, 05:08:42 PM
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

2008   5.0   4.9   5.1   5.0   5.4   5.6   5.8   6.1   6.1   6.5   6.8   7.3   
2009   7.8   8.3   8.7   8.9   9.4   9.5   9.5   9.6   9.8   10.0   9.9   9.9   
2010   9.7   9.8   9.8   9.9   9.6   9.4   9.5   9.6   9.5   9.5   9.8   9.4   
2011   9.1   9.0   8.9   9.0   9.0   9.1   9.1   9.1   9.0   8.9   8.7   8.5   
2012   8.3   8.3   8.2   8.1   8.2   8.2   8.3   8.1   7.8               

Over the course of Bushes last year unemployment went up from 4.9% to 7.8%. Less than a year into Obama's term it had maxed out in October 2009 and has been falling slowly since. It is now back down to where it was in Bush's last month January 2009.

Do you actually believe those figures, as one political commentator said this morning "These Chicago guys cannot be trusted" in other words they are political gangsters and his figures simply don't add up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on October 05, 2012, 05:32:09 PM
So what are the true figures stew? is there any evidence that these are fakes?

Is Jack Welch a political commentator? Or just a very wealthy republican.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 05, 2012, 05:33:32 PM
Stew is somethig else  :o
If "figures" say what he likes then he uses them to back up his arguments.
Then when "figures" dispel his argument it's " You can't beieve those figures".
It seems like all Empires the US one is starting on its end game as it goes broke --- like the USSR, Brits, Romans etc etc. down the centuries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 05, 2012, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2012, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2012, 05:08:42 PM
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

2008   5.0   4.9   5.1   5.0   5.4   5.6   5.8   6.1   6.1   6.5   6.8   7.3   
2009   7.8   8.3   8.7   8.9   9.4   9.5   9.5   9.6   9.8   10.0   9.9   9.9   
2010   9.7   9.8   9.8   9.9   9.6   9.4   9.5   9.6   9.5   9.5   9.8   9.4   
2011   9.1   9.0   8.9   9.0   9.0   9.1   9.1   9.1   9.0   8.9   8.7   8.5   
2012   8.3   8.3   8.2   8.1   8.2   8.2   8.3   8.1   7.8               

Over the course of Bushes last year unemployment went up from 4.9% to 7.8%. Less than a year into Obama's term it had maxed out in October 2009 and has been falling slowly since. It is now back down to where it was in Bush's last month January 2009.

Do you actually believe those figures, as one political commentator said this morning "These Chicago guys cannot be trusted" in other words they are political gangsters and his figures simply don't add up.

Oh great. It's not just that he's a Kenyan Muslim with a fake birth cert intent on the destruction of the US, now he's got them producing fake jobs figures!

I'd expect thw right conspiracy theorizing from TO. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 05, 2012, 06:19:34 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 05, 2012, 05:32:09 PM
Is Jack Welch a political commentator? Or just a very wealthy republican.

The downsizer-in-chief is now "a political commentator". War is peace...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 05, 2012, 06:35:53 PM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2012, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 05, 2012, 03:24:12 PM
Maybe he didn't have time as they were allocated 2 minutes. Maybe he thought educated people would check the figures and find out and see Romney was blowing smoke. Maybe he understood that these debates won't really change that many people's votes.
Put up your hands lad and  admit you were wrong. For a man who can't even vote you are completely indoctrinated.....

And you Mr liberal are not??? you are one arrogant hombre!

I don't believe any figures out there by either party, you watch CNN and they dole out figures and the one  pro republican news outlet gives completely another. What was interesting is that the Prez never once called Romney out on his numbers, why not??? is he capable of saying "Governor, those figures are wrong" in two minutes? is that two much to ask Iceman????

The job figures are interesting, the majority of these newly created jobs are government jobs according to CNN, a lot of them were also part time jobs out of these new positions.

Then there is the stink over the figures, I dont think he will be able to fudge the figures on November 2nd because the republicans think he is a lying bastid, and he is.

Two minutes my hole, he was running for far longer than that, yer man that hosted the debate let them go for four minutes before he called them out, and still they both droned on.

Should the president not have known the figures??? was that too much to ask of the leader of the USA, I tell you he is a nightmare.

Obamanation will get elected, unlike that liberal p***k redandblack and his missus I wont yap when he is elected again and threaten to go back home, i will suck it up and hate the fact that this tit is going to completely destroy the economy for future generations.

By the way, his running mate, that chube Biden must not even hav e listened to the debate as he is not on the same page with the prez......................... he said they were going to raise one trillion in taxes from the American people despite the prez saying differently, he is a real liability but not to the point were he will cost the prez the election.

I just hope that enough  republicans get the majority of the house/senate to stop Obamacare from raping the economy, by the way, the prez does not even understand it.

Stew I can sit back and see the bigger picture and I'm not swayed by one side or the other. You come on here ranting and raving about politics and are so passionate about it but you can't even vote. It doesn't make much sense to me. There is a bigger world out there than America and other things more important. Maybe you should check the death notices on the board before you go calling names....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 05, 2012, 06:52:42 PM
And for the record I'm very far from Liberal. I actually agree with Republicans on their moral issues, just not their horrible politics. If you paid more attention to conversations instead of throwing mud you would probably know that...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on October 05, 2012, 08:00:56 PM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2012, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2012, 05:08:42 PM
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 (http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000)

2008   5.0   4.9   5.1   5.0   5.4   5.6   5.8   6.1   6.1   6.5   6.8   7.3   
2009   7.8   8.3   8.7   8.9   9.4   9.5   9.5   9.6   9.8   10.0   9.9   9.9   
2010   9.7   9.8   9.8   9.9   9.6   9.4   9.5   9.6   9.5   9.5   9.8   9.4   
2011   9.1   9.0   8.9   9.0   9.0   9.1   9.1   9.1   9.0   8.9   8.7   8.5   
2012   8.3   8.3   8.2   8.1   8.2   8.2   8.3   8.1   7.8                

Over the course of Bushes last year unemployment went up from 4.9% to 7.8%. Less than a year into Obama's term it had maxed out in October 2009 and has been falling slowly since. It is now back down to where it was in Bush's last month January 2009.

Do you actually believe those figures, as one political commentator said this morning "These Chicago guys cannot be trusted" in other words they are political gangsters and his figures simply don't add up.

I posted this data yesterday. Didn't you notice? They are the official figures from the Bureau Of Labor Statistics not "these Chicago guys".

Romney mentioned 23 Million unemployed or under-employed or having stopped looking for work, relying on people to misinterpret these numbers versus the reality of 12 million unemployed and an INCREASE in the numbers at work in the last two years. And, right on cue, you came on here announcing this as "23 million jobs LOST". That's just about as spectacular a misinterpretation as Romney's spinners could have hoped for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 05, 2012, 08:23:56 PM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2012, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 05, 2012, 03:24:12 PM
Maybe he didn't have time as they were allocated 2 minutes. Maybe he thought educated people would check the figures and find out and see Romney was blowing smoke. Maybe he understood that these debates won't really change that many people's votes.
Put up your hands lad and  admit you were wrong. For a man who can't even vote you are completely indoctrinated.....

And you Mr liberal are not??? you are one arrogant hombre!

I don't believe any figures out there by either party, you watch CNN and they dole out figures and the one  pro republican news outlet gives completely another. What was interesting is that the Prez never once called Romney out on his numbers, why not??? is he capable of saying "Governor, those figures are wrong" in two minutes? is that two much to ask Iceman????

The job figures are interesting, the majority of these newly created jobs are government jobs according to CNN, a lot of them were also part time jobs out of these new positions.

Then there is the stink over the figures, I dont think he will be able to fudge the figures on November 2nd because the republicans think he is a lying bastid, and he is.

Two minutes my hole, he was running for far longer than that, yer man that hosted the debate let them go for four minutes before he called them out, and still they both droned on.

Should the president not have known the figures??? was that too much to ask of the leader of the USA, I tell you he is a nightmare.

Obamanation will get elected, unlike that liberal p***k redandblack and his missus I wont yap when he is elected again and threaten to go back home, i will suck it up and hate the fact that this tit is going to completely destroy the economy for future generations.

By the way, his running mate, that chube Biden must not even hav e listened to the debate as he is not on the same page with the prez......................... he said they were going to raise one trillion in taxes from the American people despite the prez saying differently, he is a real liability but not to the point were he will cost the prez the election.

I just hope that enough  republicans get the majority of the house/senate to stop Obamacare from raping the economy, by the way, the prez does not even understand it.
Did that "liberal p***k" pass away lately or am I thinking of someone else?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on October 05, 2012, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 05, 2012, 08:23:56 PM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2012, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 05, 2012, 03:24:12 PM
Maybe he didn't have time as they were allocated 2 minutes. Maybe he thought educated people would check the figures and find out and see Romney was blowing smoke. Maybe he understood that these debates won't really change that many people's votes.
Put up your hands lad and  admit you were wrong. For a man who can't even vote you are completely indoctrinated.....

And you Mr liberal are not??? you are one arrogant hombre!

I don't believe any figures out there by either party, you watch CNN and they dole out figures and the one  pro republican news outlet gives completely another. What was interesting is that the Prez never once called Romney out on his numbers, why not??? is he capable of saying "Governor, those figures are wrong" in two minutes? is that two much to ask Iceman????

The job figures are interesting, the majority of these newly created jobs are government jobs according to CNN, a lot of them were also part time jobs out of these new positions.

Then there is the stink over the figures, I dont think he will be able to fudge the figures on November 2nd because the republicans think he is a lying bastid, and he is.

Two minutes my hole, he was running for far longer than that, yer man that hosted the debate let them go for four minutes before he called them out, and still they both droned on.

Should the president not have known the figures??? was that too much to ask of the leader of the USA, I tell you he is a nightmare.

Obamanation will get elected, unlike that liberal p***k redandblack and his missus I wont yap when he is elected again and threaten to go back home, i will suck it up and hate the fact that this tit is going to completely destroy the economy for future generations.

By the way, his running mate, that chube Biden must not even hav e listened to the debate as he is not on the same page with the prez......................... he said they were going to raise one trillion in taxes from the American people despite the prez saying differently, he is a real liability but not to the point were he will cost the prez the election.

I just hope that enough  republicans get the majority of the house/senate to stop Obamacare from raping the economy, by the way, the prez does not even understand it.
Did that "liberal p***k" pass away lately or am I thinking of someone else?

His wife did, mrsredandblack.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Arthur_Friend on October 05, 2012, 08:44:26 PM
Stew.... ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RV4K6YHTfg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 05, 2012, 09:02:02 PM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2012, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 05, 2012, 03:24:12 PM
Maybe he didn't have time as they were allocated 2 minutes. Maybe he thought educated people would check the figures and find out and see Romney was blowing smoke. Maybe he understood that these debates won't really change that many people's votes.
Put up your hands lad and  admit you were wrong. For a man who can't even vote you are completely indoctrinated.....

And you Mr liberal are not??? you are one arrogant hombre!

I don't believe any figures out there by either party, you watch CNN and they dole out figures and the one  pro republican news outlet gives completely another. What was interesting is that the Prez never once called Romney out on his numbers, why not??? is he capable of saying "Governor, those figures are wrong" in two minutes? is that two much to ask Iceman????

The job figures are interesting, the majority of these newly created jobs are government jobs according to CNN, a lot of them were also part time jobs out of these new positions.

Then there is the stink over the figures, I dont think he will be able to fudge the figures on November 2nd because the republicans think he is a lying bastid, and he is.

Two minutes my hole, he was running for far longer than that, yer man that hosted the debate let them go for four minutes before he called them out, and still they both droned on.

Should the president not have known the figures??? was that too much to ask of the leader of the USA, I tell you he is a nightmare.

Obamanation will get elected, unlike that liberal p***k redandblack and his missus I wont yap when he is elected again and threaten to go back home, i will suck it up and hate the fact that this tit is going to completely destroy the economy for future generations.

By the way, his running mate, that chube Biden must not even hav e listened to the debate as he is not on the same page with the prez......................... he said they were going to raise one trillion in taxes from the American people despite the prez saying differently, he is a real liability but not to the point were he will cost the prez the election.

I just hope that enough  republicans get the majority of the house/senate to stop Obamacare from raping the economy, by the way, the prez does not even understand it.

I read on several places that 10,000 of them were government jobs. The rest were private sector.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2012, 09:05:01 PM
Lads, please try to avoid feeding the troll. He's not worth it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 08, 2012, 02:27:02 PM
This is shocking:

(http://themediablog.typepad.com/.a/6a011570c131b2970c017ee3d64111970d-pi)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 08, 2012, 02:29:15 PM
You're lying Governor:

thought this was great from the weekend edition of the NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/opinion/sunday/dowd-two-presidents-smoking-and-scheming.html

Two Presidents, Smoking and Scheming
By MAUREEN DOWD



AFTER the debate, I was talking to Aaron Sorkin, who was a little down. Or, as he put it, "nonverbal, shouting incoherently at a squirrel, angrier than when the Jets lost to the 49ers last Sunday without ever really being on the field."


Aaron was mollified when he learned that President Obama, realizing things were dire, privately sought the counsel of a former Democratic president known for throwing down in debates. I asked Aaron if he knew how the conversation between the two presidents had gone and, as it happened, he did. This is his account.



•

The lights from the presidential motorcade illuminate a New Hampshire farmhouse at night in the sprawling New England landscape. JED BARTLET steps out onto his porch as the motorcade slows to a stop.

BARTLET (calling out) Don't even get out of the car!

BARACK OBAMA (opening the door of his limo) Five minutes, that's all I want.

BARTLET Were you sleepy?

OBAMA Jed —

BARTLET Was that the problem? Had you just taken allergy medication? General anesthesia?

OBAMA I had an off night.

BARTLET What makes you say that? The fact that the Cheesecake Factory is preparing an ad campaign boasting that it served Romney his pre-debate meal? Law school graduates all over America are preparing to take the bar exam by going to the freakin' Cheesecake Factory!

OBAMA (following Bartlet inside) I can understand why you're upset, Jed.

BARTLET Did your staff let you know the debate was gonna be on television?

OBAMA (looking in the other room) Is that Jeff Daniels?

BARTLET That's Will McAvoy, he just looks like Jeff Daniels.

OBAMA Why's he got Jim Lehrer in a hammerlock?

BARTLET That's called an Apache Persuasion Hold. McAvoy thinks it's the responsibility of the moderator to expose — what are they called? — lies.

WILL (shouting) Did Obama remove the work requirement from Welfare-to-Work?!

LEHRER No!

WILL And you didn't want to ask Romney about that because? It would've been impolite?!

BARTLET Let's go in another room, Mr. President. You want a cigarette?

OBAMA I stopped smoking.

BARTLET Start again. (Leading the way into his study) I'm a father of daughters, you're a father of daughters. It looked to me like right before you went on stage, Sasha told you she likes a boy in her class who has a tattoo.

OBAMA That's not what hap —

BARTLET Here's what you do. You invite the boy over for dinner, you have a couple of fellas from your detail brush their suit coats back just enough so the lad can see the .44 Magnums — problem solved. You have what every father of a daughter dreams of — an army and a good dog.

OBAMA The girls are fine, that wasn't the problem. In the debate prep we —

BARTLET Whoa ... there was prep?

OBAMA (shouting) Enough! (taking a cigarette and lighting it) I appreciate that the view's pretty good from the cheap seats. Gore chalked up my debate performance to the altitude. He debated at sea level — what was his excuse?

BARTLET They told you to make sure you didn't seem condescending, right? They told you, "First, do no harm," and in your case that means don't appear condescending, and you bought it. 'Cause for the American right, condescension is the worst crime you can commit.

OBAMA What's your suggestion?

BARTLET Appear condescending. Now it comes naturally to me —

OBAMA I know.

BARTLET It's a gift, but I'm likable and you're likable enough. Thirty straight months of job growth — blown off. G.M. showing record profits — unmentioned. "Governor, would you still let Detroit go bankrupt as you urged us to do four years ago?" — unasked. (shouting) I'm talkin' to you, too, Lehrer!

WILL (in the other room) I got him, sir!

BARTLET All right! (back to OBAMA) And that was quite a display of hard-nosed, fiscal conservatism when he slashed one one-hundredth of 1 percent from the federal budget by canceling "Sesame Street" and "Downton Abbey." I think we're halfway home. Mr. President, your prep for the next debate need not consist of anything more than learning to pronounce three words: "Governor, you're lying." Let's replay some of Wednesday night's more jaw-dropping visits to the Land Where Facts Go to Die. "I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don't have a tax cut of a scale you're talking about."

OBAMA The Tax Policy Center analysis of your proposal for a 20 percent across-the-board tax cut in all federal income tax rates, eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax, the estate tax and other reductions, says it would be a $5 trillion tax cut.

BARTLET In other words ...

OBAMA You're lying, Governor.

BARTLET "I saw a study that came out today that said you're going to raise taxes by $3,000 to $4,000 on middle-income families."

OBAMA The American Enterprise Institute found my budget actually would reduce the share of taxes that each taxpayer pays to
BARTLET Which is another way of saying ...

OBAMA You're lying, Governor.

BARTLET "I want to take that $716 billion you've cut and put it back into Medicare."

OBAMA The $716 billion I've cut is from the providers, not the beneficiaries. I think that's a better idea than cutting the exact same $716 billion and replacing it with a gift certificate, which is what's contained in the plan that's named for your running mate.

BARTLET "Pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan."

OBAMA Not unless you've come up with a new plan since this afternoon.

BARTLET "You doubled the deficit."

OBAMA When I took office in 2009, the deficit was 1.4 trillion. According to the C.B.O., the deficit for 2012 will be 1.1 trillion. Either you have the mathematics aptitude of a Shetland pony or, much more likely, you're lying.

BARTLET "All of the increase in natural gas has happened on private land, not on government land. On government land, your administration has cut the number of permits and licenses in half."

OBAMA Maybe your difficulty is with the words "half" and "double." Oil production on federal land is higher, not lower. And the oil and gas industry are currently sitting on 7,000 approved permits to drill on government land that they've not yet begun developing.

BARTLET "I think about half the green firms you've invested in have gone out of business."

OBAMA Yeah, your problem's definitely with the word "half." As of this moment there have been 26 recipients of loan guarantees — 23 of which are very much in business. What was Bain's bankruptcy record again?

BARTLET And finally?

OBAMA Governor, if your ideas are the right ideas for our country, if you have a plan and it's the best plan for our future, if your vision is the best vision for all of us and not 53 percent of us, why aren't you able to make that case in the same ZIP code as the truth?

BARTLET And?

OBAMA Tell John Sununu anytime he wants to teach me how to be more American he knows my address for the next four years. He used to have an office there before he was fired.

BARTLET You picked a bad night to have a bad night, that's all. You've got two more chances to change the scoreboard, and Joe unplugged should be pretty good television too. Make Romney your cabana boy in New York.

OBAMA Got it.

BARTLET (taking the cigarette out of OBAMA's hand and stubbing it out) These things'll kill you. Pull McAvoy off Lehrer on your way out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 08, 2012, 02:43:56 PM
Enjoyed that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 08, 2012, 02:50:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 08, 2012, 02:27:02 PM
This is shocking:

(http://themediablog.typepad.com/.a/6a011570c131b2970c017ee3d64111970d-pi)

No it's not, this sort of shit always comes out at election time, nothing to see here!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 08, 2012, 03:19:46 PM
the other funny one doing the rounds is
http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6830834/mitt-romney-style-gangnam-style-parody

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 08, 2012, 03:25:28 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 08, 2012, 03:19:46 PM
the other funny one doing the rounds is
http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6830834/mitt-romney-style-gangnam-style-parody

Documentaries. Boring!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 08, 2012, 03:49:29 PM
GOP Congressman: Evolution a Lie 'Straight From Hell'
Paul Broun, a Physician and Scientist, Runs Unopposed for Re-election

Republican Congressman Paul Broun of Georgia, a physician and member of the science committee of the House of Representatives, said recently that evolution, the Big Bang Theory and embryology are "lies straight from the pit of hell."

"It's lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior," Broun said in a speech available on YouTube.

Nick Coltrain, reporting for the Athens Banner-Herald, wrote that the video was taken at the 2012 Sportsman's Banquet at Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell, Ga., on Sept. 27, 2012.

Broun continued that the Bible — which he calls "the manufacturer's handbook"—teaches not only "how to run our famimiles ... (and) our churches, but it teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in society. And that's the reason as your congressman, I hold the Holy Bible as being the major directions to me as how I vote in Washington, D.C."

In the video, Broun said that "as a scientist," he has found data that shows the Earth was created in six days, and no older than 9,000 years.

But well-known scientists, including science educator Bill Nye ("The Science Guy"), disagreed vehemently with Broun's views.

"Since the economic future of the United States depends on our tradition of technological innovation, Representative Broun's views are not in the national interest,". "For example, the Earth is simply not 9,000 years old ... He is, by any measure, unqualified to make decisions about science, space, and technology."

Broun received a B.S. in chemistry from the University of Georgia and a medical degree from the Medical College of Georgia.

Broun's spokeswoman, Meredith Griffanti, told the Athens Banner-Herald, "Dr. Broun was speaking off the record to a large church group about his personal beliefs on religious issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mentalman on October 08, 2012, 04:02:48 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 08, 2012, 02:27:02 PM
This is shocking:

(http://themediablog.typepad.com/.a/6a011570c131b2970c017ee3d64111970d-pi)

Apparently this was a mistake, FARS quoted an article from The Onion? Good laugh though!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57523892/iranian-news-agency-apologizes-over-citing-onion-story/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57523892/iranian-news-agency-apologizes-over-citing-onion-story/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Billys Boots on October 08, 2012, 04:05:31 PM
Oh yes, The Onion strikes again!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 08, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on October 08, 2012, 04:05:31 PM
Oh yes, The Onion strikes again!

;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on October 08, 2012, 05:41:21 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 08, 2012, 03:49:29 PM
GOP Congressman: Evolution a Lie 'Straight From Hell'
Paul Broun, a Physician and Scientist, Runs Unopposed for Re-election

Republican Congressman Paul Broun of Georgia, a physician and member of the science committee of the House of Representatives, said recently that evolution, the Big Bang Theory and embryology are "lies straight from the pit of hell."

"It's lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior," Broun said in a speech available on YouTube.

Nick Coltrain, reporting for the Athens Banner-Herald, wrote that the video was taken at the 2012 Sportsman's Banquet at Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell, Ga., on Sept. 27, 2012.

Broun continued that the Bible — which he calls "the manufacturer's handbook"—teaches not only "how to run our famimiles ... (and) our churches, but it teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in society. And that's the reason as your congressman, I hold the Holy Bible as being the major directions to me as how I vote in Washington, D.C."

In the video, Broun said that "as a scientist," he has found data that shows the Earth was created in six days, and no older than 9,000 years.

But well-known scientists, including science educator Bill Nye ("The Science Guy"), disagreed vehemently with Broun's views.

"Since the economic future of the United States depends on our tradition of technological innovation, Representative Broun's views are not in the national interest,". "For example, the Earth is simply not 9,000 years old ... He is, by any measure, unqualified to make decisions about science, space, and technology."

Broun received a B.S. in chemistry from the University of Georgia and a medical degree from the Medical College of Georgia.

Broun's spokeswoman, Meredith Griffanti, told the Athens Banner-Herald, "Dr. Broun was speaking off the record to a large church group about his personal beliefs on religious issues.

Unfortunately, this one isn't an Onion skit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBy3MbP4WDo

He's a one-man tea-party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_L8x6jfn8&feature=related
(At 1:50) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KDBSObi19I
(1:04) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvpCIjFuwXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXT9ZDAbK_o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 09, 2012, 02:16:48 AM
The latest polls has the two men tied, Romney won the debate by a staggering 72% to 28%.

According to Fox Romney is winning the independent vote by 16%, the liberals have him winning that by 12%.

What the prez didnt tell us is that there are 46 million more people on food stamps, 17 million more that when the prez took office, 6 trillion more on new Obama debt since he took office.

Bush can no longer be blamed for the economy of today, the prez has to be accountable for the job he has done with the economy in his four years.

29 days to the economy and maybe, just maybe Romney can pull this off, that said I expect Obama to call Romney and hit him up on his accounts in the Cayman's, which he was entitled to do.

Obama needs to blow Romney out of the water in the next debate, if he gets hammered again he is going to get beaten.

One last thing, the  prez's desperate team  came out and said that Romney referred to his five boys multiple times............... it was suggested that Romney was being racist because he was calling Obama boy!!! A tad desperate are the dems and the prez. ;D



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 09, 2012, 05:26:25 AM
He just inherited an economy in a tailspin, the worst for 80 years, and got stuck with an opposition who explicitly tried to thwart everything he did for political reasons. He's been poor, no question, but the Republicans have been an unpatriotic rabble. Let's just hope enough people see through Romney's attempted last minute "etch a sketch" reset  of himself as a moderate and elect Obama, if only to provide a bulwark against the tea party.

As for Paul Broun, himself and Todd "women's bodies can reject rapist's sperm" Akin are members of the House Science Committee. Tells you all.you need to know about the bigoted, intellectually bankrupt state of the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 09, 2012, 07:57:34 AM
QuoteUnfortunately, this one isn't an Onion skit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBy3MbP4WDo

He's a one-man tea-party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_L8x6jfn8&feature=related
(At 1:50) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KDBSObi19I
(1:04) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvpCIjFuwXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXT9ZDAbK_o
Quote

Some scary stuff out there!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0PeBwzvQds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0PeBwzvQds)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 09, 2012, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: stew on October 09, 2012, 02:16:48 AM
The latest polls has the two men tied, Romney won the debate by a staggering 72% to 28%.

stew, it's a doddle on this board to put links to these results. It would be nice to see who has them level.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 09, 2012, 09:57:12 AM
Quote from: deiseach on October 09, 2012, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: stew on October 09, 2012, 02:16:48 AM
The latest polls has the two men tied, Romney won the debate by a staggering 72% to 28%.

stew, it's a doddle on this board to put links to these results. It would be nice to see who has them level.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/157907/romney-narrows-vote-gap-historic-debate-win.aspx
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 09, 2012, 10:09:16 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 09, 2012, 09:57:12 AM
Quote from: deiseach on October 09, 2012, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: stew on October 09, 2012, 02:16:48 AM
The latest polls has the two men tied, Romney won the debate by a staggering 72% to 28%.

stew, it's a doddle on this board to put links to these results. It would be nice to see who has them level.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/157907/romney-narrows-vote-gap-historic-debate-win.aspx

Ah, Gallup. That'd be the Gallup that had the GOP winning the House by 15% in 2010 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/25/gallup-rasmussen-polling-outliers-lean-republican). They might be right - but as things stand, Gallup and Rasmussen are out of step with everyone else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Billys Boots on October 09, 2012, 10:26:03 AM
The first question you should ask when presented with research findings is 'who has paid for them?'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 09, 2012, 10:48:41 AM
I don't know a pile about polls in America or their reliability just posted up the link.

I think for this particular presidential election it's the lesser of 2 evils. I'm not a fan of either really but I would say if I were that side of the water I'd be a Democrat.

Don't understand what was wrong with Obama at the last debate. For such a gifted Public Speaker he didn't seem to relish the challenge at all, surely he needed to come out with the big guns early and blow Romney away and it's not as if he doesn't have the ammunition. Did he not want to appear too smug? Was he not well? Is he not up for another battle?

Looking forward to seeing how it all pans out. I can see another Democratic victory but Republican control of the house and another 4 years of nothing really getting done... Unfortunate if you're an American!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on October 09, 2012, 10:49:48 AM
On the plus sid efor obama, surely he has plenty of material from the massive spin/lies of romney for the next debate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 09, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
Do people seriously buy this crap?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJ_8-etLLk&sns=em (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJ_8-etLLk&sns=em)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on October 09, 2012, 11:31:43 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 09, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
Do people seriously buy this crap?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJ_8-etLLk&sns=em (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJ_8-etLLk&sns=em)

Yes, you would have to live here to understand how people react to these ads, you'd pull your hair out sometimes. I don't even bother arguing anymore as it has become a waste of time and energy. I have not seen that ad here in south Florida probably due to the fact that the area has a big gay population but I'm sure it will be aired in the more conservative areas of north Florida and in the other swing states for a targeted audience.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 10, 2012, 03:11:06 AM
New York isn't a swing state so thankfully we are spared most of the political ads and fast forward on the DVR takes care of the rest except during live sport.

Of course that means I am not up to date on the garbage that is being poured out by the nutjobs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 10, 2012, 07:20:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 09, 2012, 10:48:41 AM
I don't know a pile about polls in America or their reliability just posted up the link.

I think for this particular presidential election it's the lesser of 2 evils. I'm not a fan of either really but I would say if I were that side of the water I'd be a Democrat.

Don't understand what was wrong with Obama at the last debate. For such a gifted Public Speaker he didn't seem to relish the challenge at all, surely he needed to come out with the big guns early and blow Romney away and it's not as if he doesn't have the ammunition. Did he not want to appear too smug? Was he not well? Is he not up for another battle?

Looking forward to seeing how it all pans out. I can see another Democratic victory but Republican control of the house and another 4 years of nothing really getting done... Unfortunate if you're an American!!!

A lot of commentators say the public tends to remember the last debate more. I missed the first one as I was out for dinner, trying to support the economy!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 10, 2012, 07:31:48 AM
This is a keenly fought debate. Mitt vs. Mitt. Kerry got battered with the 'flip-flopper' tag, Mitt seem to be getting a pass on a lot of his ideological inconsistencies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/mitt-romney-debates-himself-video_n_1949414.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009&utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 10, 2012, 09:46:55 AM
In fairness to Team Romney, that ad was not direct from them. It came from the 'Campaign for American Values (http://politicker.com/2012/09/super-pac-targets-obama-with-gay-marriage-scare-campaign/)'. I suppose if you believe the world is 6,000 years old and prehistoric man hunted dinosaurs, it should be right at your level.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 10, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
Stew was right, some black people are indeed voting for Obama cos 'he a black nigga'! Also anti Romney cos 'bitch got a dancing horse'.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/bitch-got-dancing-horse-why-snoop-dogg-isnt-voting-mitt-romney
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 10, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 10, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
Stew was right, some black people are indeed voting for Obama cos 'he a black nigga'! Also anti Romney cos 'bitch got a dancing horse'.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/bitch-got-dancing-horse-why-snoop-dogg-isnt-voting-mitt-romney

Never used that term...............just to clarify!

Sammy L & snoopy are two examples of the ignorance of some voters, snoopy is a clown but Sammy is a smart guy, why he would say what he said is beyond me.

It always galls when when black people call each other nigger, no problem with the term then..........right up until a white guy say's it and bang, they are offended and ready to throw or worse.

Bill Cosby hates that shite, he is a man who has urged black people across the country to stop using the term, to no avail.

Another thing that annoyed me was Colin Powell, he was a long time  friend of M'Cain and a Republican right up to the last election, when for the first time, he voted for a Democrat, why was that I wonder.

Finally there is a lot of reverse racism over here, it's not so long ago a black racist went on tv and went on a hate filled rant that stated that he wanted black people to rise up and kill eery white baby, baby momma and every white man in the US of A...............what got done, absolutely nothing, the rules got thrown out the window thanks to the fact that no one stood up and held the fcuker accountable for what came out of his mouth. If that is not reverse racism and incitement to hatred I don't know what is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 10, 2012, 08:45:13 PM
Quote from: stew on October 10, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 10, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
Stew was right, some black people are indeed voting for Obama cos 'he a black nigga'! Also anti Romney cos 'bitch got a dancing horse'.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/bitch-got-dancing-horse-why-snoop-dogg-isnt-voting-mitt-romney

Never used that term...............just to clarify!

Sammy L & snoopy are two examples of the ignorance of some voters, snoopy is a clown but Sammy is a smart guy, why he would say what he said is beyond me.

It always galls when when black people call each other nigger, no problem with the term then..........right up until a white guy say's it and bang, they are offended and ready to throw or worse.

Doesn't gall me, but I do find it strange. I guess its a way of reclaiming what was a very offensive label.

However, if you cannot see the difference between a white person using the term and two black guys using it in conversation, whether as a term of abuse or affection... Context and baggage mean a lot.

Quote from: stew on October 10, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Bill Cosby hates that shite, he is a man who has urged black people across the country to stop using the term, to no avail.
In my view, he is correct. However, I am not black.

Quote from: stew on October 10, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Another thing that annoyed me was Colin Powell, he was a long time  friend of M'Cain and a Republican right up to the last election, when for the first time, he voted for a Democrat, why was that I wonder.

Why "wonder" when he explained it himself:

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell announced Sunday that he will be voting for Sen. Barack Obama, citing the Democrat's "ability to inspire" and the "inclusive nature of his campaign."

"I think he is a transformational figure, he is a new generation coming onto the world stage, onto the American stage, and for that reason I'll be voting for Sen. Barack Obama," Powell said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

Powell said he was concerned about what he characterized as a recent negative turn of Republican candidate Sen. John McCain's campaign, such as the campaign's attempts to tie Obama to former 1960s radical Bill Ayers.

Quote from: stew on October 10, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Finally there is a lot of reverse racism over here, it's not so long ago a black racist went on tv and went on a hate filled rant that stated that he wanted black people to rise up and kill eery white baby, baby momma and every white man in the US of A...............what got done, absolutely nothing, the rules got thrown out the window thanks to the fact that no one stood up and held the fcuker accountable for what came out of his mouth. If that is not reverse racism and incitement to hatred I don't know what is.

"A lot of reverse racism"?? Where? When?

Who was this black guy who went on the rant against white people? What exactly did he say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 10, 2012, 09:00:45 PM
Quote from: stew on October 10, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 10, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
Stew was right, some black people are indeed voting for Obama cos 'he a black nigga'! Also anti Romney cos 'bitch got a dancing horse'.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/bitch-got-dancing-horse-why-snoop-dogg-isnt-voting-mitt-romney

Never used that term...............just to clarify!

Sammy L & snoopy are two examples of the ignorance of some voters, snoopy is a clown but Sammy is a smart guy, why he would say what he said is beyond me.

It always galls when when black people call each other nigger, no problem with the term then..........right up until a white guy say's it and bang, they are offended and ready to throw or worse.

Bill Cosby hates that shite, he is a man who has urged black people across the country to stop using the term, to no avail.

Another thing that annoyed me was Colin Powell, he was a long time  friend of M'Cain and a Republican right up to the last election, when for the first time, he voted for a Democrat, why was that I wonder.

Finally there is a lot of reverse racism over here, it's not so long ago a black racist went on tv and went on a hate filled rant that stated that he wanted black people to rise up and kill eery white baby, baby momma and every white man in the US of A...............what got done, absolutely nothing, the rules got thrown out the window thanks to the fact that no one stood up and held the fcuker accountable for what came out of his mouth. If that is not reverse racism and incitement to hatred I don't know what is.

I hear you my Fenian brother!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 11, 2012, 07:44:05 AM
Good to see Romney carrying on as before - it really is a horrible business
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19905786 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19905786)

(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/mitt_cheats_185165_10151275626776081_790271343_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on October 11, 2012, 08:55:23 AM
Quote from: stew on October 10, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Finally there is a lot of reverse racism over here, it's not so long ago a black racist went on tv and went on a hate filled rant that stated that he wanted black people to rise up and kill eery white baby, baby momma and every white man in the US of A...............what got done, absolutely nothing, the rules got thrown out the window thanks to the fact that no one stood up and held the fcuker accountable for what came out of his mouth. If that is not reverse racism and incitement to hatred I don't know what is.

This isnt "reverse racism" - its just racism.
Who was this guy? was he in some position of authority where he could be disciplined?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 11, 2012, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 11, 2012, 08:55:23 AM
Quote from: stew on October 10, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Finally there is a lot of reverse racism over here, it's not so long ago a black racist went on tv and went on a hate filled rant that stated that he wanted black people to rise up and kill eery white baby, baby momma and every white man in the US of A...............what got done, absolutely nothing, the rules got thrown out the window thanks to the fact that no one stood up and held the fcuker accountable for what came out of his mouth. If that is not reverse racism and incitement to hatred I don't know what is.

This isnt "reverse racism" - its just racism.
Who was this guy? was he in some position of authority where he could be disciplined?

I agree with you nifan, but that is what it is called here and I have been here since 96.

He was the leader of some sort of black militia and I am going to try and find out and find the interview, he did not do a day in jail for it either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 11, 2012, 03:06:04 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 11, 2012, 07:44:05 AM
Good to see Romney carrying on as before - it really is a horrible business
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19905786 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19905786)

(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/mitt_cheats_185165_10151275626776081_790271343_n.jpg)

Hey Deccy, can you doodle me a pic if the Prez's nose now, after all he did lie about America's involvement in Libya!

Cover up's don't sit well with the yanks...........hence the fact that some polls have shown Romney ahead for the first time.

The two parties have, since Clinton left, had the worst candidates for  both the role of President and Vice President in the countries history.

The VP debate is on tonight, it will be interesting because he is the smoking gun of the whole election, in that he can't help himself from inserting his size twelve into his pie hole.

The Prez has not allowed Biden to give an interview since May, the liberal media give him a free pass on that, say what you want about his opponent but he has given 200 interviews since he was nominated as Romney's running mate.

For the first time

El Presidente has lied and tried to cover up his administrations in Ly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on October 11, 2012, 03:34:56 PM
Snoop Dogg's take on the presidential race.

http://instagram.com/p/QYGWYpP9Pd/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 11, 2012, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2012, 03:06:04 PM

The VP debate is on tonight, it will be interesting because he is the smoking gun of the whole election, in that he can't help himself from inserting his size twelve into his pie hole.


Stew,
you could be talking about either muppet there unfortunately, and either of them is a heartbeat or a sniper's bullet away from the big job. However that also assumes that either would do a worse job than the guy in the hotseat, and I'm not sure thats true either.

Still, I think the odds are strongly in Obama's favour right now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 11, 2012, 09:46:52 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 11, 2012, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2012, 03:06:04 PM

The VP debate is on tonight, it will be interesting because he is the smoking gun of the whole election, in that he can't help himself from inserting his size twelve into his pie hole.


Stew,
you could be talking about either muppet there unfortunately, and either of them is a heartbeat or a sniper's bullet away from the big job. However that also assumes that either would do a worse job than the guy in the hotseat, and I'm not sure thats true either.

Damn, hegan, that does not even bare thinking about.

Still, I think the odds are strongly in Obama's favour right now

87% of yanks have said in polls that this debate will in no way change their opinion on whom they vote for, 70 million will watch it live, I am going to watch because I am fascinated to see how many times that arsewipe Biden fcuks up in 90 minutes. :)

Iowa, the most crucial  swing state is still with Obama.......................just. I expect him to win if he wins the last debate and is not rocked on his heels again like he was the last time.

Obama needs to come out swinging, know what the feck he is talking about and not debate like he had a lobotomy prior to taking the stage, he will be fine..............I think.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 11, 2012, 11:38:19 PM
Just thought of this, if Obama keeled over dead or got plugged Biden,a Catholic would be the nation's second Catholic President...............if this happened tomorrow Romney would be a shoe in for the election, better a Morman President than a Catholic one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 12, 2012, 05:06:28 AM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2012, 11:38:19 PM
Just thought of this, if Obama keeled over dead or got plugged Biden,a Catholic would be the nation's second Catholic President...............if this happened tomorrow Romney would be a shoe in for the election, better a Morman President than a Catholic one.

Paul Ryan could be the second catholic president, you're telling me thats not scarier than Biden? (marginally, just marginally)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2012, 05:45:50 AM
I think this is how things looked on the way home for Biden

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.hipchat.com/17129/124149/abdz3lrt7l3cig1/dancing-obamaadmin.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 12, 2012, 08:40:25 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2012, 05:45:50 AM
I think this is how things looked on the way home for Biden

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.hipchat.com/17129/124149/abdz3lrt7l3cig1/dancing-obamaadmin.gif)

Whoever did that must be one of the 47%.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 12, 2012, 07:00:48 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 12, 2012, 05:06:28 AM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2012, 11:38:19 PM
Just thought of this, if Obama keeled over dead or got plugged Biden,a Catholic would be the nation's second Catholic President...............if this happened tomorrow Romney would be a shoe in for the election, better a Morman President than a Catholic one.

Paul Ryan could be the second catholic president, you're telling me thats not scarier than Biden? (marginally, just marginally)

From what I saw last night from Biden, I would take Ryan all day long over that clown Biden.

Biden looked like 'smiling Bob' from those tv ads that pimped hard on pills! his behavior last night was hardly that of a statesman.

I thought they fought to a draw, the problem for Obama now is that his minion has thrown the entire intelligence community under the bus pertaining to Libya, and he has senior military officials coming out and stating that the administration is lying and that they did in fact know about the situation.

The consulate asked for an extra detachment of marines to help secure the safety of the staff in the consulate, they were denied and people died, including the top man himself. The cover up and deniability machine is in full swing, I think that Romney will have a field day with this however I also think Obama will be a new man in debate number two, it is great theater altogether.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 12, 2012, 08:47:18 PM
Stew,

While I agree with you that Biden's incessant smiling and his disdainful facial expressions were irritating, I don't agree that the debate was a tie.  I think Biden edged it.

In the end, he did what he was supposed to do, and what Obama failed miserably to do, which was to underscore the essential differences between the two candidates and to call to task the Republican team for pivoting positions more often than LeBron James about to take a jump shot.

In short, in a blend of fire and furor, he made listeners believe that he truly cares about the financial well-being of the middle class (why does no-one say working class?) as opposed to the Republicans who appear to care only about the ultra-rich, despite their new-found romance with ordinary people.  I think, too, that while some think Biden rude for interrupting Ryan, he did so to disrupt Ryan's pre-rehearsed "malarkey" and thereby made the debate more like a debate than a series of mini lectures.  I thought Biden was particularly effective, too, when he spoke directly to the camera imploring people to trust their instincts, and he was very effective when he challenged Ryan's opposition to the stimulus package while reminding voters that Ryan had sought stimulus money for his own state.  And I believe Biden did well to highlight the magic math inherent in Republican promises to grant large tax breaks to the rich, to increase defense expenditure, to save the popular features of Obamacare, etc., all while lowering the deficit.

Ryan did better on foreign policy than I thought he would, and perhaps his "Bean" story relating to abortion is probably the one thing that will stick beyond the weekend, though I'm not sure how well it will sway voters.  On the one hand, it will have a galvanizing effect on right-to-lifers, but they were probably voting Republican anyway, whereas Biden's response to Martha Raddatz's question about religion and abortion probably appealed to non-Christian women who fear the social conservatism of the GOP.

Though I agree with you that the Libya affair is not going away any time soon, I do think that the fate of Medicare and Social Security is weighing more heavily on voters' minds, and Biden did a better job than Ryan in making ordinary folk believe that Obama, not Romney, will safeguard those programs and will stand up for the maligned 47%.  If he did nothing else, in the very least, Biden bought Obama a few days breathing room.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2012, 09:37:04 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 12, 2012, 08:47:18 PM
why does no-one say working class?

Because if they did they'd be branded a communist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2012, 02:28:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2012, 09:37:04 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 12, 2012, 08:47:18 PM
why does no-one say working class?

Because if they did they'd be branded a communist.

Because you numpty, they are different from us in that they live 3,000 miles from Ireland and use different verbiage than we do!

Eamon, you see conspiracies everywhere dont you? Is your surname McCarthy by any chance???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on October 13, 2012, 03:31:26 AM
Brazen bunch Romney and Ryan. It was Ryan and Republicans that voted down the funds for more embassy security. More bad news fo Republicans on their home front as largest banks report record profits because of the improving economy.Expect to only hear about Libya going forward. But even there, it's emerging it was embassy in Tripoli that requested more security which was denied because of Ryan and his buddies vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 13, 2012, 05:09:09 AM
Stew: do you refer to this McCarthy  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_McCarthy  or this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy
I think Eamonn's views are more alingned with Eugene and in the case of McCarthy eile " Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 16, 2012, 03:36:16 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 13, 2012, 03:31:26 AM
Brazen bunch Romney and Ryan. It was Ryan and Republicans that voted down the funds for more embassy security. More bad news fo Republicans on their home front as largest banks report record profits because of the improving economy.Expect to only hear about Libya going forward. But even there, it's emerging it was embassy in Tripoli that requested more security which was denied because of Ryan and his buddies vote.

So naturally, Clinton takes the fall for Ryan and Romney.............makes perfect sense.

The cover up is on......McCain called it as it is and Romney, if he does well tonight will take the lead in the swing States.

They all lie, however this one is a doozy, the election cannot come quickly enough for the Prez! It's nice that in the town hall debate the prez will not have the use of a teleprompter, so far he has been shite without one.

It's all gone very quiet on here...........................wonder why?   :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2012, 03:52:39 PM
It's quiet because TO has disappeared. Don't think anyone else is really bothered enough to come screaming everyday about the latest fake partisan outage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 16, 2012, 05:57:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2012, 03:52:39 PM
It's quiet because TO has disappeared. Don't think anyone else is really bothered enough to come screaming everyday about the latest fake partisan outage.


That's bullshit.......................... TO has been gone for a long time now, you lot have no problem posting when things are perceived to be going well for the democrats.

Fake partisan outrage my hole..................... CNBC and CNN has you well trained!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 16, 2012, 06:46:07 PM
Quote from: stew on October 16, 2012, 05:57:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2012, 03:52:39 PM
It's quiet because TO has disappeared. Don't think anyone else is really bothered enough to come screaming everyday about the latest fake partisan outage.


That's bullshit.......................... TO has been gone for a long time now, you lot have no problem posting when things are perceived to be going well for the democrats.

Fake partisan outrage my hole..................... CNBC and CNN has you well trained!!!!
stew- no idea what cnbc says. I never watched it in my life. The republicans are nuts. Norm Ormstein says it and he is no marxist.  Kevin Phillips is another who knows the party and how it has been hollowed out by the extremists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on October 16, 2012, 06:52:01 PM
Stew, not often I would agree with you, but you are spot on regarding Obama and Romney. They are both shite. If Obama had of fulfilled the promises 4 years ago, he would be way out in front in the polls. He has been a great failure in my books regarding his failed promises. Romney on the other hand is just as bad I would say when it comes to fulfilling his promises.

Both men are bought and paid for by big business, Wall Street, AIPAC, the Pharma industry, and the weapons and military industry. They are the people they will serve in office, not the people who elected them.

Sadly US politics has gone downhill so badly that it is hard to tune in and pay interest to it and it is rotten to the core.

The people will speak in a few weeks time, and either way, it will be a tough 4 years ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 16, 2012, 06:52:29 PM
Stew you do an awful lot of huffing and puffing about it. Reminds me of a great song about Keady Swimming pool.

Wee Tommy Cavanagh learned to swim,
put on his togs and his water wings,
he went to the pool but they wouldnt let him in,
so he banged on the door then he lost his cool

he then brought out the bands to blow
like Joshua at the walls of jericho...

We could have had a free Ireland if you had stuck about Longstone.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2012, 07:02:33 PM
Quote from: stew on October 16, 2012, 05:57:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2012, 03:52:39 PM
It's quiet because TO has disappeared. Don't think anyone else is really bothered enough to come screaming everyday about the latest fake partisan outage.


That's buleelshit.......................... TO has been gone for a long time now, you lot have no problem posting when things are perceived to be going well for the democrats.

Fake partisan outrage my hole..................... CNBC and CNN has you well trained!!!!

Why don't you look back and tell me the number of times I've posted stuff here that is NOT a response to someone like yourself, responses that mostly go unanswered as it happens.

And BTW, CNBC is a BUSINESS channel! Home of Larry Kudlow and the guy whose rant gave birth to the tea party movement. Not that it matters, but I don't watch cable news. NPR meets my news needs very adequately. No screaming, no bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2012, 07:12:29 PM
And BTW, its undeniable that certain individuals or groups feed certain threads. This particular one was always centred around TO and his fake outrage, for better or for worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 16, 2012, 09:15:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2012, 07:12:29 PM
And BTW, its undeniable that certain individuals or groups feed certain threads. This particular one was always centred around TO and his fake outrage, for better or for worse.

This thread has been taken over by the mad hatter Stew. No wonder people aren't posting. Why would anyone in their right mind lower themselves to the level of responding to that intellectually-challenged cretin?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 16, 2012, 11:16:34 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 16, 2012, 06:52:29 PM
Stew you do an awful lot of huffing and puffing about it. Reminds me of a great song about Keady Swimming pool.

Wee Tommy Cavanagh learned to swim,
put on his togs and his water wings,
he went to the pool but they wouldnt let him in,
so he banged on the door then he lost his cool

he then brought out the bands to blow
like Joshua at the walls of jericho...

We could have had a free Ireland if you had stuck about Longstone.....

So you know me, good for you, I probably know you, that said I have an opinion you fecking eejit, it differs from many on here and that is ok!

Man up and send me a pm, next time I am in Armagh you can tell me I am one for huffing and puffing,m see where that gets you  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 17, 2012, 08:33:51 AM
Barry knocked em dead tonight, lads!

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/12729_4914939357288_2041949065_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on October 17, 2012, 12:10:26 PM
Come election day in the US, Ballela 1 - Longstone 1, (if Longstone is eligible to field a team)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 17, 2012, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: stew on October 16, 2012, 11:16:34 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 16, 2012, 06:52:29 PM
Stew you do an awful lot of huffing and puffing about it. Reminds me of a great song about Keady Swimming pool.

Wee Tommy Cavanagh learned to swim,
put on his togs and his water wings,
he went to the pool but they wouldnt let him in,
so he banged on the door then he lost his cool

he then brought out the bands to blow
like Joshua at the walls of jericho...

We could have had a free Ireland if you had stuck about Longstone.....

So you know me, good for you, I probably know you, that said I have an opinion you fecking eejit, it differs from many on here and that is ok!

Man up and send me a pm, next time I am in Armagh you can tell me I am one for huffing and puffing,m see where that gets you  :P

Everybody knows you on here. I'm in NJ, no need to go all the way back to Armagh. 21 hours would drive you up the road and I'm happy to sing that wee song for you and tell you that you're huffing and puffing :)
I just think you don't spend any time or even care what anyone else's opinions are - you blast everyone with your propaganda fed rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 17, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
Here's a question . . . is the fact that Aaron Sorkin has produced 2 worldwide and successful pro-democrat TV Series is that brainwashing people across the world to hate the Republicans?

I'm a huge fan of both West Wing and the Newsroom but I would say that they bash Republicans every chance they get. Especially the Newsroom and the tea party (although I think that's no bad thing). What I'm getting at is that maybe the Republicans are getting a raw deal.

My own opinion on it is that Romney is a knob and doesn't have the charisma to beat Obama in the election. In terms of people giving out about the economy well show me a country that hasn't suffered in the past 4 years? Is Obama supposed to be some kind of miracle worker, especially given the fact he's working against a Republican Congress. If Obama took back the house (can't see it) I think we would see some real action!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 17, 2012, 03:10:46 PM
Romney's Seven Biggest Debate Lies
by George Zornick
Perhaps the most famous moment to come out of Tuesday night's presidential town-hall style debate in Hempstead, New York, was when moderator Candy Crowley fact-checked Mitt Romney on the spot on Libya.

But that isn't the only time the Republican candidate said something completely false—it was perhaps just the most obvious. Here are the seven biggest lies Romney told:

ROMNEY: "We have fewer people working today than we had when the president took office."

This is flatly false. The Bureau of Labor statistics just revised estimates from March 2011 to March 2012 upwards by 386,000 jobs—meaning that Obama crossed the magic imaginary barrier of net job creation for his term, and has actually created a net positive 125,000 jobs. This is a simple fact. And there have been 868,000 jobs created in the private sector during this time, which have been offset by public sector job losses—something Mitt Romney would like to see continue.

Moreover, this is an awful tough metric to judge Obama on in the first place. As he's fond of mentioning, the economy was hemorrhaging 800,000 jobs a month when he took office—so holding him to a net job creation standard means he has to make up for those massive losses that were out of his control entirely. But he's still done it.

ROMNEY: "I don't believe employers should tell someone whether they could have contraceptive care or not. Every woman in America should have access to contraceptives."

Recall back in March, when Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri introduced a bill that would allow employers to deny contraceptive coverage to employees.

Mitt Romney said: "Of course I support the Blunt amendment.... Of course Roy Blunt, who is my liaison to the Senate, is someone I support and of course I support that amendment. I clearly want to have religious exemption from Obamacare.... I really think all Americans should be allowed to get around this religious exemption."

This one is pretty simple.

ROMNEY: "I am not going to have people at the high end pay less than they're paying now. The top 5 percent of taxpayers will continue to pay 60 percent of the income tax the nation collects. So that'll stay the same. Middle-income people are going to get a tax break."

A Center for American Progress examination of Romney's tax plan concluded that the top 10 percent of income earners would reap half of the plan's benefits, and the top 1 percent would reap one-third of the benefits.

Romney tries to dodge this unassailable fact by saying he'll cut deductions for the wealthy—but he refuses to say which ones. He's also ruled out raising the tax breaks the wealthy get on capital gains and dividends. This lead the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center to conclude that Romney would have to end up cutting deductions used by the middle class to make his math work—thus raising their taxes.

ROMNEY: "As a matter of fact, oil production is down 14 percent this year on federal land."

Obama immediately challenged this point, leading to the first of many back-and-forths between the president and Romney. But Obama was right. It's true that drilling on public lands dropped 14 percent in 2011, but it went up 15 percent the year before. Overall oil production on federal lands is up under Obama—and Romney is being extremely dishonest in singling out the one year that it dropped.

We must pause here to note that—since the oil drilled on federal land in the United States has zero impact on global gas prices, since it's such a trivial amount—it's not such a hot idea, and not one Obama should be particularly proud of increasing. But he did increase it.

Also, it should be noted that Romney plainly said later in the debate that "coal jobs are not up." In fact, 1,500 jobs in the coal industry have been created since Obama took office.

ROMNEY: "And — and so we — we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said, 'Can you help us find folks,' and they brought us whole binders full of women. I was proud of the fact that...[Massachusetts] had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America."

First of all, that effort was spearheaded by a nonpartisan coalition of women's groups, not Romney. Second, the number of women in high-level appointed positions declined 27.6 during his tenure as governor.

More importantly Romney has opposed pay equity for women in much more substantive policy ways beyond these anecdotes—opposing the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act and the Paycheck Fairness Act.

Also, there were no binders full of women at Bain Capital—there were no female partners at that firm during the 1980s and 1990s, according to The Boston Globe. Today, only four of forty-nine of the firm's managing directors are women.


ROMNEY: "I want to make sure we keep our Pell Grant program growing."

This is simply not true. Romney and his running mate would cut Pell Grants—Romney has been vague on the issue, using ominous budgetspeak that he wants to "refocus" Pell Grant dollars to "place the program on a responsible long-term path," but Paul Ryan has been far more specific—his budget would cut Pell Grants for up to 1 million students.

ROMNEY: "We're going to bring that pipeline in from Canada. How in the world the president said no to that pipeline? I will never know. This is about bringing good jobs back for the middle class of America, and that's what I'm going to do."

Romney is joining many other members of the Republican party in saying the Keystone Pipeline is a job-creation engine. It's not. The Cornell Global Labor Institute says it would create only 2,500 to 4,650 short-term construction jobs while it was being built—and the State Department found similar numbers  in its environmental review of the project. That's not enough to impact the unemployment rate, and is notably far, far less than the millions of jobs independent analysts say would be created by Obama's American Jobs Act, which focuses on many infrastructure projects and increased hiring of teachers and public safety workers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2012, 04:36:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
Here's a question . . . is the fact that Aaron Sorkin has produced 2 worldwide and successful pro-democrat TV Series is that brainwashing people across the world to hate the Republicans?

I'm a huge fan of both West Wing and the Newsroom but I would say that they bash Republicans every chance they get. Especially the Newsroom and the tea party (although I think that's no bad thing). What I'm getting at is that maybe the Republicans are getting a raw deal.

My own opinion on it is that Romney is a knob and doesn't have the charisma to beat Obama in the election. In terms of people giving out about the economy well show me a country that hasn't suffered in the past 4 years? Is Obama supposed to be some kind of miracle worker, especially given the fact he's working against a Republican Congress. If Obama took back the house (can't see it) I think we would see some real action!!!

I think Romney could easily win. Or maybe I fear that! It's going to come down to two or three states, as most of them are totally predictable in terms of who'll win them. The US electorate is evenly split. It all comes down to enthusiasm. The Republicans had it two years ago when they rode the tea party wave. The key this time is whether Obama can get his base out and whether many people will fall for Romney's attempted reinvention as a moderate Republican over the past two weeks.

As for Aaron Sorkin, well the right wing has a monopoly on talk radio in the US. It's all available online for anyone who wants their point of view, assuming you don't get Fox News.

Haven't watched either show, as preaching to the choir type of shows don't interest me, which is why I don't get the attraction of talk radio/Fox News and its angry white christian echo chamber.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 17, 2012, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2012, 04:36:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
Here's a question . . . is the fact that Aaron Sorkin has produced 2 worldwide and successful pro-democrat TV Series is that brainwashing people across the world to hate the Republicans?

I'm a huge fan of both West Wing and the Newsroom but I would say that they bash Republicans every chance they get. Especially the Newsroom and the tea party (although I think that's no bad thing). What I'm getting at is that maybe the Republicans are getting a raw deal.

My own opinion on it is that Romney is a knob and doesn't have the charisma to beat Obama in the election. In terms of people giving out about the economy well show me a country that hasn't suffered in the past 4 years? Is Obama supposed to be some kind of miracle worker, especially given the fact he's working against a Republican Congress. If Obama took back the house (can't see it) I think we would see some real action!!!

I think Romney could easily win. Or maybe I fear that! It's going to come down to two or three states, as most of them are totally predictable in terms of who'll win them. The US electorate is evenly split. It all comes down to enthusiasm. The Republicans had it two years ago when they rode the tea party wave. The key this time is whether Obama can get his base out and whether many people will fall for Romney's attempted reinvention as a moderate Republican over the past two weeks.

As for Aaron Sorkin, well the right wing has a monopoly on talk radio in the US. It's all available online for anyone who wants their point of view, assuming you don't get Fox News.

Haven't watched either show, as preaching to the choir type of shows don't interest me, which is why I don't get the attraction of talk radio/Fox News and its angry white christian echo chamber.

The Newsroom is incredibly preachy but West Wing for me is still the best TV Series ever made, it's not nearly as partisan as the Newsroom although it has its moments. I'm talking better than the Soprano's/Mad Men, all the great TV Shows. Martin Sheen as President is everything you would ever want from the leader of a Country!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: haveaharp on October 17, 2012, 11:36:23 PM
http://news.sky.com/story/999142/new-york-bomb-plot-man-appears-in-court (http://news.sky.com/story/999142/new-york-bomb-plot-man-appears-in-court)

Any political timely mileage to be made out of this one ?

Sky news were using the phrase "weapon of mass destruction" on tv earlier, for a 1000lb bomb ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 17, 2012, 11:40:11 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on October 17, 2012, 11:36:23 PM
http://news.sky.com/story/999142/new-york-bomb-plot-man-appears-in-court (http://news.sky.com/story/999142/new-york-bomb-plot-man-appears-in-court)

Any political timely mileage to be made out of this one ?

Sky news were using the phrase "weapon of mass destruction" on tv earlier, for a 1000lb bomb ?

Sounds like an extremist Ron Paul follower.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on October 18, 2012, 01:19:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxch-yi14BE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxch-yi14BE)

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 18, 2012, 02:08:37 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 17, 2012, 03:10:46 PM
Romney's Seven Biggest Debate Lies
by George Zornick
Perhaps the most famous moment to come out of Tuesday night's presidential town-hall style debate in Hempstead, New York, was when moderator Candy Crowley fact-checked Mitt Romney on the spot on Libya.

Eh she is not smart enough to get even that right, BO did mention terrorist attacks the next morning but he never once said that the four deaths in Libia were terrorist attacks............... it took him a full two weeks to do that.

But that isn't the only time the Republican candidate said something completely false—it was perhaps just the most obvious. Here are the seven biggest lies Romney told:

ROMNEY: "We have fewer people working today than we had when the president took office."

This is flatly false. The Bureau of Labor statistics just revised estimates from March 2011 to March 2012 upwards by 386,000 jobs—meaning that Obama crossed the magic imaginary barrier of net job creation for his term, and has actually created a net positive 125,000 jobs. This is a simple fact. And there have been 868,000 jobs created in the private sector during this time, which have been offset by public sector job losses—something Mitt Romney would like to see continue.

Again not true, Obama promised to add millions of jobs to the economy, he was elected on hope, when he took office unemployment was running at 7.8%, it is currently 7.8%, he said he would add 5.5 million jobs and he lied!

Moreover, this is an awful tough metric to judge Obama on in the first place. As he's fond of mentioning, the economy was hemorrhaging 800,000 jobs a month when he took office—so holding him to a net job creation standard means he has to make up for those massive losses that were out of his control entirely. But he's still done it.

He got elected in part because he had a plan to cure America, he had the plan to add jobs, he stated he would fix the economy and the job situation, he was wrong and or he flat out lied!

ROMNEY: "I don't believe employers should tell someone whether they could have contraceptive care or not. Every woman in America should have access to contraceptives."

Recall back in March, when Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri introduced a bill that would allow employers to deny contraceptive coverage to employees.

He flipped flopped on this, I expect this sort of thing from these guys, they are politicians!

Mitt Romney said: "Of course I support the Blunt amendment.... Of course Roy Blunt, who is my liaison to the Senate, is someone I support and of course I support that amendment. I clearly want to have religious exemption from Obamacare.... I really think all Americans should be allowed to get around this religious exemption."

This one is pretty simple.

ROMNEY: "I am not going to have people at the high end pay less than they're paying now. The top 5 percent of taxpayers will continue to pay 60 percent of the income tax the nation collects. So that'll stay the same. Middle-income people are going to get a tax break."

BO however promised middle class people that he would cut the amount they pay for insurance by 50%...... he was right about the 50%, it went UP by 50% under his leadership.

I disagree with Romney on this, the rich should pay more and the middle income families should pay less, on this Obama is right, that said he told the middle class they would be better off four years ago, they are most assuredly not, the average family is $5,000 worse off given the insurance rates and the taxation issues.

42% of every dollar goes towards keeping the Government afloat with Public employees etc, that is criminal, BO has made this Government the biggest in the country's history, he campaigned on smaller Government, he lied!

A Center for American Progress examination of Romney's tax plan concluded that the top 10 percent of income earners would reap half of the plan's benefits, and the top 1 percent would reap one-third of the benefits.

The stats are horrible on this and there is no defending it unless you are a tea partier...............I loathe those feckers


Romney tries to dodge this unassailable fact by saying he'll cut deductions for the wealthy—but he refuses to say which ones. He's also ruled out raising the tax breaks the wealthy get on capital gains and dividends. This lead the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center to conclude that Romney would have to end up cutting deductions used by the middle class to make his math work—thus raising their taxes.

ROMNEY: "As a matter of fact, oil production is down 14 percent this year on federal land."

Obama immediately challenged this point, leading to the first of many back-and-forths between the president and Romney. But Obama was right. It's true that drilling on public lands dropped 14 percent in 2011, but it went up 15 percent the year before. Overall oil production on federal lands is up under Obama—and Romney is being extremely dishonest in singling out the one year that it dropped.

You are very fecking naive if you think these boys dont use the stats to their advantage, do you really believe Obama is always right and Romney always wrong on facts and figures????

Obama took permits away from companies that had a right to drill because he claimed they had not started quickly enough for his liking, he stopped the pipeline from being built that would have run all the way down from Canada. He killed the right to drill in Alaska and he did the same in thr Carolina's for off shore drilling because he claimed to be afraid of another BP situation.

We must pause here to note that—since the oil drilled on federal land in the United States has zero impact on global gas prices, since it's such a trivial amount—it's not such a hot idea, and not one Obama should be particularly proud of increasing. But he did increase it.

Also, it should be noted that Romney plainly said later in the debate that "coal jobs are not up." In fact, 1,500 jobs in the coal industry have been created since Obama took office.

ROMNEY: "And — and so we — we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said, 'Can you help us find folks,' and they brought us whole binders full of women. I was proud of the fact that...[Massachusetts] had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America."

First of all, that effort was spearheaded by a nonpartisan coalition of women's groups, not Romney. Second, the number of women in high-level appointed positions declined 27.6 during his tenure as governor.


More importantly Romney has opposed pay equity for women in much more substantive policy ways beyond these anecdotes—opposing the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act and the Paycheck Fairness Act.

So did many dems, two wrongs do not make a right and here is something else to chew on, according to some stats thrown out there Romney was better than average in having women involved at high levels of Government, in fact when he ran for Govenor his top aide was a woman.

Also, there were no binders full of women at Bain Capital—there were no female partners at that firm during the 1980s and 1990s, according to The Boston Globe. Today, only four of forty-nine of the firm's managing directors are women.


ROMNEY: "I want to make sure we keep our Pell Grant program growing."

This is simply not true. Romney and his running mate would cut Pell Grants—Romney has been vague on the issue, using ominous budgetspeak that he wants to "refocus" Pell Grant dollars to "place the program on a responsible long-term path," but Paul Ryan has been far more specific—his budget would cut Pell Grants for up to 1 million students.

Cant argue here, I have two kids in school and they have both taken advantage of the reciprocity agreements with other states, this will really hurt students and ultimately their parents, that said, unlike most on here, I don't think that you are going to agree with the candidate of your choice on everything, there are too many on here who simply see Democrats as Good and Republicans as EVIL!

ROMNEY: "We're going to bring that pipeline in from Canada. How in the world the president said no to that pipeline? I will never know. This is about bringing good jobs back for the middle class of America, and that's what I'm going to do."

Romney is joining many other members of the Republican party in saying the Keystone Pipeline is a job-creation engine. It's not. The Cornell Global Labor Institute says it would create only 2,500 to 4,650 short-term construction jobs while it was being built—and the State Department found similar numbers  in its environmental review of the project. That's not enough to impact the unemployment rate, and is notably far, far less than the millions of jobs independent analysts say would be created by Obama's American Jobs Act, which focuses on many infrastructure projects and increased hiring of teachers and public safety workers.

What a load of bollocks that is, are these 4,650 workers going to build this pipeline in 6 months? once built do all the jobs go away? do they build it and forget to use it or are robots going to run the pipeline?

According to conservative sources there will be up to 30,000 jobs created with many thousands staying on to run the pipeline. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Here's the rub, Obama has hardly kept one single promise he made four years ago, the American people have a choice, they can choose to let BO destroy future generations by adding trillions to the deficit OR they can kick BO to the curb and let someone else try and clean up his mess!


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 18, 2012, 02:13:04 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2012, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2012, 04:36:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
Here's a question . . . is the fact that Aaron Sorkin has produced 2 worldwide and successful pro-democrat TV Series is that brainwashing people across the world to hate the Republicans?

I'm a huge fan of both West Wing and the Newsroom but I would say that they bash Republicans every chance they get. Especially the Newsroom and the tea party (although I think that's no bad thing). What I'm getting at is that maybe the Republicans are getting a raw deal.

My own opinion on it is that Romney is a knob and doesn't have the charisma to beat Obama in the election. In terms of people giving out about the economy well show me a country that hasn't suffered in the past 4 years? Is Obama supposed to be some kind of miracle worker, especially given the fact he's working against a Republican Congress. If Obama took back the house (can't see it) I think we would see some real action!!!

I think Romney could easily win. Or maybe I fear that! It's going to come down to two or three states, as most of them are totally predictable in terms of who'll win them. The US electorate is evenly split. It all comes down to enthusiasm. The Republicans had it two years ago when they rode the tea party wave. The key this time is whether Obama can get his base out and whether many people will fall for Romney's attempted reinvention as a moderate Republican over the past two weeks.

As for Aaron Sorkin, well the right wing has a monopoly on talk radio in the US. It's all available online for anyone who wants their point of view, assuming you don't get Fox News.

The Liberals own TV with the obvious exception of Fox, check out CNBC it is the left wings version of Fox!

Haven't watched either show, as preaching to the choir type of shows don't interest me, which is why I don't get the attraction of talk radio/Fox News and its angry white christian echo chamber.

The Newsroom is incredibly preachy but West Wing for me is still the best TV Series ever made, it's not nearly as partisan as the Newsroom although it has its moments. I'm talking better than the Soprano's/Mad Men, all the great TV Shows. Martin Sheen as President is everything you would ever want from the leader of a Country!


and of course he was portraying a democratic President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 18, 2012, 02:18:57 PM
QuoteWhat a load of bollocks that is

What about the other 6 ones Stew?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2012, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: stew on October 18, 2012, 02:13:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2012, 04:36:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
Here's a question . . . is the fact that Aaron Sorkin has produced 2 worldwide and successful pro-democrat TV Series is that brainwashing people across the world to hate the Republicans?

I'm a huge fan of both West Wing and the Newsroom but I would say that they bash Republicans every chance they get. Especially the Newsroom and the tea party (although I think that's no bad thing). What I'm getting at is that maybe the Republicans are getting a raw deal.

My own opinion on it is that Romney is a knob and doesn't have the charisma to beat Obama in the election. In terms of people giving out about the economy well show me a country that hasn't suffered in the past 4 years? Is Obama supposed to be some kind of miracle worker, especially given the fact he's working against a Republican Congress. If Obama took back the house (can't see it) I think we would see some real action!!!

I think Romney could easily win. Or maybe I fear that! It's going to come down to two or three states, as most of them are totally predictable in terms of who'll win them. The US electorate is evenly split. It all comes down to enthusiasm. The Republicans had it two years ago when they rode the tea party wave. The key this time is whether Obama can get his base out and whether many people will fall for Romney's attempted reinvention as a moderate Republican over the past two weeks.

As for Aaron Sorkin, well the right wing has a monopoly on talk radio in the US. It's all available online for anyone who wants their point of view, assuming you don't get Fox News.

The Liberals own TV with the obvious exception of Fox, check out CNBC it is the left wings version of Fox!

Maybe you should check it out Stew. For the second time, CNBC is a business Wall Street channel, and in no shape or form could it be considered liberal.

MSNBC, yes, that is a liberal counterpoint to Fox. And in no way even remotely as popular, which Fox never stops boasting about.

On the one hand, Fox are the tiny persecuted minority, on the other, they continually win the cable news ratings. Same with right wing talk radio.

As to the reasons for the popularity of right wing, blame the government/gays/women/minorities/atheists/scientists/environmentalists/muslims/immigrants media forms, I can only speak for myself, but I reiterate my previous point that I'm just not interested in having my prejudices and anger stoked daily. I'm smart enough and educated enough to make up my own mind. I work with a lot of right wing guys, and you can pretty much predict what most of them are going to say on current political issues based on what the talk radio/Fox News/RNC latest talking points are.

Quote from: stew on October 18, 2012, 02:13:04 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2012, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2012, 04:36:06 PM
Haven't watched either show, as preaching to the choir type of shows don't interest me, which is why I don't get the attraction of talk radio/Fox News and its angry white christian echo chamber.

The Newsroom is incredibly preachy but West Wing for me is still the best TV Series ever made, it's not nearly as partisan as the Newsroom although it has its moments. I'm talking better than the Soprano's/Mad Men, all the great TV Shows. Martin Sheen as President is everything you would ever want from the leader of a Country!


and of course he was portraying a democratic President.

And?

How would your ideal President be portrayed on tv?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 18, 2012, 03:03:04 PM
Just reading about the debates there and the arrest of the Green party candidates. The debates are very closely controlled by the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD), a private corporation that was created by the Republican and Democratic parties which excludes third-party candidates, among other things.

I didn't know that the GP are on the ballot for 85 percent of voters. Ninety million voters are predicted to stay home and vote with their feet that neither Barack Obama nor Mitt Romney represent them. That's twice as many voters than expected for either of them.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
Quote from: stew on October 18, 2012, 02:08:37 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 17, 2012, 03:10:46 PM
Romney's Seven Biggest Debate Lies
by George Zornick
Perhaps the most famous moment to come out of Tuesday night's presidential town-hall style debate in Hempstead, New York, was when moderator Candy Crowley fact-checked Mitt Romney on the spot on Libya.

Eh she is not smart enough to get even that right, BO did mention terrorist attacks the next morning but he never once said that the four deaths in Libia were terrorist attacks............... it took him a full two weeks to do that.

But that isn't the only time the Republican candidate said something completely false—it was perhaps just the most obvious. Here are the seven biggest lies Romney told:

ROMNEY: "We have fewer people working today than we had when the president took office."

This is flatly false. The Bureau of Labor statistics just revised estimates from March 2011 to March 2012 upwards by 386,000 jobs—meaning that Obama crossed the magic imaginary barrier of net job creation for his term, and has actually created a net positive 125,000 jobs. This is a simple fact. And there have been 868,000 jobs created in the private sector during this time, which have been offset by public sector job losses—something Mitt Romney would like to see continue.

Again not true, Obama promised to add millions of jobs to the economy, he was elected on hope, when he took office unemployment was running at 7.8%, it is currently 7.8%, he said he would add 5.5 million jobs and he lied!

Moreover, this is an awful tough metric to judge Obama on in the first place. As he's fond of mentioning, the economy was hemorrhaging 800,000 jobs a month when he took office—so holding him to a net job creation standard means he has to make up for those massive losses that were out of his control entirely. But he's still done it.

He got elected in part because he had a plan to cure America, he had the plan to add jobs, he stated he would fix the economy and the job situation, he was wrong and or he flat out lied!

ROMNEY: "I don't believe employers should tell someone whether they could have contraceptive care or not. Every woman in America should have access to contraceptives."

Recall back in March, when Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri introduced a bill that would allow employers to deny contraceptive coverage to employees.

He flipped flopped on this, I expect this sort of thing from these guys, they are politicians!

Mitt Romney said: "Of course I support the Blunt amendment.... Of course Roy Blunt, who is my liaison to the Senate, is someone I support and of course I support that amendment. I clearly want to have religious exemption from Obamacare.... I really think all Americans should be allowed to get around this religious exemption."

This one is pretty simple.

ROMNEY: "I am not going to have people at the high end pay less than they're paying now. The top 5 percent of taxpayers will continue to pay 60 percent of the income tax the nation collects. So that'll stay the same. Middle-income people are going to get a tax break."

BO however promised middle class people that he would cut the amount they pay for insurance by 50%...... he was right about the 50%, it went UP by 50% under his leadership.

I disagree with Romney on this, the rich should pay more and the middle income families should pay less, on this Obama is right, that said he told the middle class they would be better off four years ago, they are most assuredly not, the average family is $5,000 worse off given the insurance rates and the taxation issues.

42% of every dollar goes towards keeping the Government afloat with Public employees etc, that is criminal, BO has made this Government the biggest in the country's history, he campaigned on smaller Government, he lied!

A Center for American Progress examination of Romney's tax plan concluded that the top 10 percent of income earners would reap half of the plan's benefits, and the top 1 percent would reap one-third of the benefits.

The stats are horrible on this and there is no defending it unless you are a tea partier...............I loathe those feckers


Romney tries to dodge this unassailable fact by saying he'll cut deductions for the wealthy—but he refuses to say which ones. He's also ruled out raising the tax breaks the wealthy get on capital gains and dividends. This lead the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center to conclude that Romney would have to end up cutting deductions used by the middle class to make his math work—thus raising their taxes.

ROMNEY: "As a matter of fact, oil production is down 14 percent this year on federal land."

Obama immediately challenged this point, leading to the first of many back-and-forths between the president and Romney. But Obama was right. It's true that drilling on public lands dropped 14 percent in 2011, but it went up 15 percent the year before. Overall oil production on federal lands is up under Obama—and Romney is being extremely dishonest in singling out the one year that it dropped.

You are very fecking naive if you think these boys dont use the stats to their advantage, do you really believe Obama is always right and Romney always wrong on facts and figures????

Obama took permits away from companies that had a right to drill because he claimed they had not started quickly enough for his liking, he stopped the pipeline from being built that would have run all the way down from Canada. He killed the right to drill in Alaska and he did the same in thr Carolina's for off shore drilling because he claimed to be afraid of another BP situation.

We must pause here to note that—since the oil drilled on federal land in the United States has zero impact on global gas prices, since it's such a trivial amount—it's not such a hot idea, and not one Obama should be particularly proud of increasing. But he did increase it.

Also, it should be noted that Romney plainly said later in the debate that "coal jobs are not up." In fact, 1,500 jobs in the coal industry have been created since Obama took office.

ROMNEY: "And — and so we — we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said, 'Can you help us find folks,' and they brought us whole binders full of women. I was proud of the fact that...[Massachusetts] had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America."

First of all, that effort was spearheaded by a nonpartisan coalition of women's groups, not Romney. Second, the number of women in high-level appointed positions declined 27.6 during his tenure as governor.


More importantly Romney has opposed pay equity for women in much more substantive policy ways beyond these anecdotes—opposing the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act and the Paycheck Fairness Act.

So did many dems, two wrongs do not make a right and here is something else to chew on, according to some stats thrown out there Romney was better than average in having women involved at high levels of Government, in fact when he ran for Govenor his top aide was a woman.

Also, there were no binders full of women at Bain Capital—there were no female partners at that firm during the 1980s and 1990s, according to The Boston Globe. Today, only four of forty-nine of the firm's managing directors are women.


ROMNEY: "I want to make sure we keep our Pell Grant program growing."

This is simply not true. Romney and his running mate would cut Pell Grants—Romney has been vague on the issue, using ominous budgetspeak that he wants to "refocus" Pell Grant dollars to "place the program on a responsible long-term path," but Paul Ryan has been far more specific—his budget would cut Pell Grants for up to 1 million students.

Cant argue here, I have two kids in school and they have both taken advantage of the reciprocity agreements with other states, this will really hurt students and ultimately their parents, that said, unlike most on here, I don't think that you are going to agree with the candidate of your choice on everything, there are too many on here who simply see Democrats as Good and Republicans as EVIL!

ROMNEY: "We're going to bring that pipeline in from Canada. How in the world the president said no to that pipeline? I will never know. This is about bringing good jobs back for the middle class of America, and that's what I'm going to do."

Romney is joining many other members of the Republican party in saying the Keystone Pipeline is a job-creation engine. It's not. The Cornell Global Labor Institute says it would create only 2,500 to 4,650 short-term construction jobs while it was being built—and the State Department found similar numbers  in its environmental review of the project. That's not enough to impact the unemployment rate, and is notably far, far less than the millions of jobs independent analysts say would be created by Obama's American Jobs Act, which focuses on many infrastructure projects and increased hiring of teachers and public safety workers.

What a load of bollocks that is, are these 4,650 workers going to build this pipeline in 6 months? once built do all the jobs go away? do they build it and forget to use it or are robots going to run the pipeline?

According to conservative sources there will be up to 30,000 jobs created with many thousands staying on to run the pipeline. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Here's the rub, Obama has hardly kept one single promise he made four years ago, the American people have a choice, they can choose to let BO destroy future generations by adding trillions to the deficit OR they can kick BO to the curb and let someone else try and clean up his mess!

Tell us Stew: Where would we be now had McCain won?

How would McCain have dealt with the budget deficit? President Bush left a baseline 1.2 trillion deficit for the 2009 fiscal year (yes, Obama increased it). The economy was in free fall, with more than 3/4 million people losing jobs monthly. Would McCain have gone the austerity route? If so, how well has that worked in Europe? If not, how was he going to make up the gap? Should all those jobless people have just been cut loose and left to fend for themselves? Were you screaming about the Republicans when Bush was working with .5 trillion deficit in the relatively good times? Are you saying that McCain (or Bush, had it been two years earlier) would NOT have gone with a stimulus plan?

As for broken promises, Obama is not the king. The Republicans were so opposed to giving him any scent of victory that they almost to a man refused to even countenance his backing of what used to be THEIR health care reforms, as well as sensible programs like putting people back to work to rebuild public infrastructure, something that will pay for itself multiple times over and for which borrowing conditions will never be better. Where he can use executive orders for stuff like NOT deporting children of immigrants raised in the US, the right wing has gone nuts. Not much he could do either about the likes of Guantanamo. Public support just wasn't there when he tried.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:18:26 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 18, 2012, 03:03:04 PM
Just reading about the debates there and the arrest of the Green party candidates. The debates are very closely controlled by the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD), a private corporation that was created by the Republican and Democratic parties which excludes third-party candidates, among other things.

I didn't know that the GP are on the ballot for 85 percent of voters. Ninety million voters are predicted to stay home and vote with their feet that neither Barack Obama nor Mitt Romney represent them. That's twice as many voters than expected for either of them.

Are those participation figures much different to parliamentary system countries where you can find small parties much more tailored to your own specific views?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 18, 2012, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
Tell us Stew: Where would we be now had McCain won?

How would McCain have dealt with the budget deficit? President Bush left a baseline 1.2 trillion deficit for the 2009 fiscal year (yes, Obama increased it).

Actually the budget deficit has not increased under Obama.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

The largest deficit was in FY2009 the last Bush budget and has been lower each year since.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:51:25 PM
Quote from: dec on October 18, 2012, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
Tell us Stew: Where would we be now had McCain won?

How would McCain have dealt with the budget deficit? President Bush left a baseline 1.2 trillion deficit for the 2009 fiscal year (yes, Obama increased it).

Actually the budget deficit has not increased under Obama.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

The largest deficit was in FY2009 the last Bush budget and has been lower each year since.

Obama increased it by about 200 billion for 2009, including the stimulus.

And to correct an earlier post, it was Bush's penultimate budget that was about .5 trillion. His earlier ones were lower.

Of course, however, Bush didn't include the wars in his budgets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on October 18, 2012, 05:38:09 PM
This is an excellent article showing how Romney and his buddies took over a bankrupt automotive company, made billions on the GM bailout, closed the factories and sacked 25,000 workers, moved  production to China, and floated the company for billions.....

http://www.thenation.com/article/170644/mitt-romneys-bailout-bonanza#
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 18, 2012, 11:54:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
Quote from: stew on October 18, 2012, 02:08:37 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 17, 2012, 03:10:46 PM
Romney's Seven Biggest Debate Lies
by George Zornick
Perhaps the most famous moment to come out of Tuesday night's presidential town-hall style debate in Hempstead, New York, was when moderator Candy Crowley fact-checked Mitt Romney on the spot on Libya.

Eh she is not smart enough to get even that right, BO did mention terrorist attacks the next morning but he never once said that the four deaths in Libia were terrorist attacks............... it took him a full two weeks to do that.

But that isn't the only time the Republican candidate said something completely false—it was perhaps just the most obvious. Here are the seven biggest lies Romney told:

ROMNEY: "We have fewer people working today than we had when the president took office."

This is flatly false. The Bureau of Labor statistics just revised estimates from March 2011 to March 2012 upwards by 386,000 jobs—meaning that Obama crossed the magic imaginary barrier of net job creation for his term, and has actually created a net positive 125,000 jobs. This is a simple fact. And there have been 868,000 jobs created in the private sector during this time, which have been offset by public sector job losses—something Mitt Romney would like to see continue.

Again not true, Obama promised to add millions of jobs to the economy, he was elected on hope, when he took office unemployment was running at 7.8%, it is currently 7.8%, he said he would add 5.5 million jobs and he lied!

Moreover, this is an awful tough metric to judge Obama on in the first place. As he's fond of mentioning, the economy was hemorrhaging 800,000 jobs a month when he took office—so holding him to a net job creation standard means he has to make up for those massive losses that were out of his control entirely. But he's still done it.

He got elected in part because he had a plan to cure America, he had the plan to add jobs, he stated he would fix the economy and the job situation, he was wrong and or he flat out lied!

ROMNEY: "I don't believe employers should tell someone whether they could have contraceptive care or not. Every woman in America should have access to contraceptives."

Recall back in March, when Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri introduced a bill that would allow employers to deny contraceptive coverage to employees.

He flipped flopped on this, I expect this sort of thing from these guys, they are politicians!

Mitt Romney said: "Of course I support the Blunt amendment.... Of course Roy Blunt, who is my liaison to the Senate, is someone I support and of course I support that amendment. I clearly want to have religious exemption from Obamacare.... I really think all Americans should be allowed to get around this religious exemption."

This one is pretty simple.

ROMNEY: "I am not going to have people at the high end pay less than they're paying now. The top 5 percent of taxpayers will continue to pay 60 percent of the income tax the nation collects. So that'll stay the same. Middle-income people are going to get a tax break."

BO however promised middle class people that he would cut the amount they pay for insurance by 50%...... he was right about the 50%, it went UP by 50% under his leadership.

I disagree with Romney on this, the rich should pay more and the middle income families should pay less, on this Obama is right, that said he told the middle class they would be better off four years ago, they are most assuredly not, the average family is $5,000 worse off given the insurance rates and the taxation issues.

42% of every dollar goes towards keeping the Government afloat with Public employees etc, that is criminal, BO has made this Government the biggest in the country's history, he campaigned on smaller Government, he lied!

A Center for American Progress examination of Romney's tax plan concluded that the top 10 percent of income earners would reap half of the plan's benefits, and the top 1 percent would reap one-third of the benefits.

The stats are horrible on this and there is no defending it unless you are a tea partier...............I loathe those feckers


Romney tries to dodge this unassailable fact by saying he'll cut deductions for the wealthy—but he refuses to say which ones. He's also ruled out raising the tax breaks the wealthy get on capital gains and dividends. This lead the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center to conclude that Romney would have to end up cutting deductions used by the middle class to make his math work—thus raising their taxes.

ROMNEY: "As a matter of fact, oil production is down 14 percent this year on federal land."

Obama immediately challenged this point, leading to the first of many back-and-forths between the president and Romney. But Obama was right. It's true that drilling on public lands dropped 14 percent in 2011, but it went up 15 percent the year before. Overall oil production on federal lands is up under Obama—and Romney is being extremely dishonest in singling out the one year that it dropped.

You are very fecking naive if you think these boys dont use the stats to their advantage, do you really believe Obama is always right and Romney always wrong on facts and figures????

Obama took permits away from companies that had a right to drill because he claimed they had not started quickly enough for his liking, he stopped the pipeline from being built that would have run all the way down from Canada. He killed the right to drill in Alaska and he did the same in thr Carolina's for off shore drilling because he claimed to be afraid of another BP situation.

We must pause here to note that—since the oil drilled on federal land in the United States has zero impact on global gas prices, since it's such a trivial amount—it's not such a hot idea, and not one Obama should be particularly proud of increasing. But he did increase it.

Also, it should be noted that Romney plainly said later in the debate that "coal jobs are not up." In fact, 1,500 jobs in the coal industry have been created since Obama took office.

ROMNEY: "And — and so we — we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said, 'Can you help us find folks,' and they brought us whole binders full of women. I was proud of the fact that...[Massachusetts] had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America."

First of all, that effort was spearheaded by a nonpartisan coalition of women's groups, not Romney. Second, the number of women in high-level appointed positions declined 27.6 during his tenure as governor.


More importantly Romney has opposed pay equity for women in much more substantive policy ways beyond these anecdotes—opposing the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act and the Paycheck Fairness Act.

So did many dems, two wrongs do not make a right and here is something else to chew on, according to some stats thrown out there Romney was better than average in having women involved at high levels of Government, in fact when he ran for Govenor his top aide was a woman.

Also, there were no binders full of women at Bain Capital—there were no female partners at that firm during the 1980s and 1990s, according to The Boston Globe. Today, only four of forty-nine of the firm's managing directors are women.


ROMNEY: "I want to make sure we keep our Pell Grant program growing."

This is simply not true. Romney and his running mate would cut Pell Grants—Romney has been vague on the issue, using ominous budgetspeak that he wants to "refocus" Pell Grant dollars to "place the program on a responsible long-term path," but Paul Ryan has been far more specific—his budget would cut Pell Grants for up to 1 million students.

Cant argue here, I have two kids in school and they have both taken advantage of the reciprocity agreements with other states, this will really hurt students and ultimately their parents, that said, unlike most on here, I don't think that you are going to agree with the candidate of your choice on everything, there are too many on here who simply see Democrats as Good and Republicans as EVIL!

ROMNEY: "We're going to bring that pipeline in from Canada. How in the world the president said no to that pipeline? I will never know. This is about bringing good jobs back for the middle class of America, and that's what I'm going to do."

Romney is joining many other members of the Republican party in saying the Keystone Pipeline is a job-creation engine. It's not. The Cornell Global Labor Institute says it would create only 2,500 to 4,650 short-term construction jobs while it was being built—and the State Department found similar numbers  in its environmental review of the project. That's not enough to impact the unemployment rate, and is notably far, far less than the millions of jobs independent analysts say would be created by Obama's American Jobs Act, which focuses on many infrastructure projects and increased hiring of teachers and public safety workers.

What a load of bollocks that is, are these 4,650 workers going to build this pipeline in 6 months? once built do all the jobs go away? do they build it and forget to use it or are robots going to run the pipeline?

According to conservative sources there will be up to 30,000 jobs created with many thousands staying on to run the pipeline. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Here's the rub, Obama has hardly kept one single promise he made four years ago, the American people have a choice, they can choose to let BO destroy future generations by adding trillions to the deficit OR they can kick BO to the curb and let someone else try and clean up his mess!

Tell us Stew: Where would we be now had McCain won?

How the fcuk could I know this? I am not capable of seeing into the future ffs! I would like to think that the younger generations would be better off because the debt they carry would be at least 33% less but you never know!

How would McCain have dealt with the budget deficit? President Bush left a baseline 1.2 trillion deficit for the 2009 fiscal year (yes, Obama increased it). The economy was in free fall, with more than 3/4 million people losing jobs monthly. Would McCain have gone the austerity route? If so, how well has that worked in Europe? If not, how was he going to make up the gap? Should all those jobless people have just been cut loose and left to fend for themselves? Were you screaming about the Republicans when Bush was working with .5 trillion deficit in the relatively good times? Are you saying that McCain (or Bush, had it been two years earlier) would NOT have gone with a stimulus plan?

As for broken promises, Obama is not the king. The Republicans were so opposed to giving him any scent of victory that they almost to a man refused to even countenance his backing of what used to be THEIR health care reforms, as well as sensible programs like putting people back to work to rebuild public infrastructure, something that will pay for itself multiple times over and for which borrowing conditions will never be better. Where he can use executive orders for stuff like NOT deporting children of immigrants raised in the US, the right wing has gone nuts. Not much he could do either about the likes of Guantanamo. Public support just wasn't there when he tried.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 18, 2012, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:51:25 PM
Quote from: dec on October 18, 2012, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
Tell us Stew: Where would we be now had McCain won?

How would McCain have dealt with the budget deficit? President Bush left a baseline 1.2 trillion deficit for the 2009 fiscal year (yes, Obama increased it).

Actually the budget deficit has not increased under Obama.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

The largest deficit was in FY2009 the last Bush budget and has been lower each year since.

Obama increased it by about 200 billion for 2009, including the stimulus.

And to correct an earlier post, it was Bush's penultimate budget that was about .5 trillion. His earlier ones were lower.

Of course, however, Bush didn't include the wars in his budgets.

You lying sacks of shite.........thank God you dont get to vote!!! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 19, 2012, 12:19:15 AM
Quote from: stew on October 18, 2012, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:51:25 PM
Quote from: dec on October 18, 2012, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
Tell us Stew: Where would we be now had McCain won?

How would McCain have dealt with the budget deficit? President Bush left a baseline 1.2 trillion deficit for the 2009 fiscal year (yes, Obama increased it).

Actually the budget deficit has not increased under Obama.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

The largest deficit was in FY2009 the last Bush budget and has been lower each year since.

Obama increased it by about 200 billion for 2009, including the stimulus.

And to correct an earlier post, it was Bush's penultimate budget that was about .5 trillion. His earlier ones were lower.

Of course, however, Bush didn't include the wars in his budgets.

You lying sacks of shite.........thank God you dont get to vote!!! :)

I'll be voting but New York isn't a swing state so it won't matter too much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2012, 12:31:45 AM
Quote from: stew on October 18, 2012, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:51:25 PM
Quote from: dec on October 18, 2012, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
Tell us Stew: Where would we be now had McCain won?

How would McCain have dealt with the budget deficit? President Bush left a baseline 1.2 trillion deficit for the 2009 fiscal year (yes, Obama increased it).

Actually the budget deficit has not increased under Obama.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

The largest deficit was in FY2009 the last Bush budget and has been lower each year since.

Obama increased it by about 200 billion for 2009, including the stimulus.

And to correct an earlier post, it was Bush's penultimate budget that was about .5 trillion. His earlier ones were lower.

Of course, however, Bush didn't include the wars in his budgets.

You lying sacks of shite.........thank God you dont get to vote!!! :)

I ain't lying and I DO get to vote. As with Dec, however, I'm in NY which Obama will walk.

Urging my mother to vote in FL though! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 19, 2012, 12:41:32 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2012, 12:31:45 AM
Quote from: stew on October 18, 2012, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:51:25 PM
Quote from: dec on October 18, 2012, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
Tell us Stew: Where would we be now had McCain won?

How would McCain have dealt with the budget deficit? President Bush left a baseline 1.2 trillion deficit for the 2009 fiscal year (yes, Obama increased it).

Actually the budget deficit has not increased under Obama.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

The largest deficit was in FY2009 the last Bush budget and has been lower each year since.

Obama increased it by about 200 billion for 2009, including the stimulus.

And to correct an earlier post, it was Bush's penultimate budget that was about .5 trillion. His earlier ones were lower.

Of course, however, Bush didn't include the wars in his budgets.

You lying sacks of shite.........thank God you dont get to vote!!! :)

I ain't lying and I DO get to vote. As with Dec, however, I'm in NY which Obama will walk.

Urging my mother to vote in FL though! :)

Good, get her to vote three or four times like the dems usually do in swing states and see what happens! :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on October 19, 2012, 02:12:22 AM
Might have been posted before but this chart from Washington Post clearly shows that it was Bush tax cuts and the cost of the Bush wars that increased the deficit. Were Ros Perot running for election, he'd surely bring a chart to show this in the debates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/Parfait-using-debt-gdp-2001-2019-5-12-11-FINAL.jpg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2012, 07:13:16 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 19, 2012, 02:12:22 AM
Might have been posted before but this chart from Washington Post clearly shows that it was Bush tax cuts and the cost of the Bush wars that increased the deficit. Were Ros Perot running for election, he'd surely bring a chart to show this in the debates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/Parfait-using-debt-gdp-2001-2019-5-12-11-FINAL.jpg

Yup. And just when you got used to republicans [edited by Mod3] claiming that the world is 6000 years old, now we have to re-adjust to hearing them act as if it's  just under 4 years old.  It' as if this debt and the clusterfuck in Iraq (now universally acclaimed as the biggest foreign policy blunder since Napoleon's invasion of Russia) just fell from the sky and Obama should have been able to snap his fingers and undo the mess in a single term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 22, 2012, 08:28:58 AM
Interesting endorsement of Obama from the main paper in Salt Lake city which I'd have thought would have been very much in the Blue corner
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/romney-obama-state-president.html.csp (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/romney-obama-state-president.html.csp)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 22, 2012, 02:44:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2012, 07:13:16 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 19, 2012, 02:12:22 AM
Might have been posted before but this chart from Washington Post clearly shows that it was Bush tax cuts and the cost of the Bush wars that increased the deficit. Were Ros Perot running for election, he'd surely bring a chart to show this in the debates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/Parfait-using-debt-gdp-2001-2019-5-12-11-FINAL.jpg

Yup. And just when you got used to republicans claiming that the world is 6000 years old, now we have to re-adjust to hearing them act as if it's  just under 4 years old.  It' as if this debt and the clusterfuck in Iraq (now universally acclaimed as the biggest foreign policy blunder since Napoleon's invasion of Russia) just fell from the sky and Obama should have been able to snap his fingers and undo the mess in a single term.

You you ever off an uncle, go to the Funeral and change your mind on God again
Quit bringing faith into everything you write ffs, a broken record has more personality!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 22, 2012, 02:47:20 PM
The last debate is tonight, c'mon Romney, put that Kenyan in his place. :P

Squeaky bum time for the dems...........................game on!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gaaboardmod3 on October 22, 2012, 04:20:08 PM
stew, enough. You know better than that.

Eamonn, really? Another feud? Your own namecalling is as bad. Can you not engage without causing a riot?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 22, 2012, 06:26:11 PM
No bother, Mod. I have him on ignore now too. I'll tone it down though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 22, 2012, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 22, 2012, 08:28:58 AM
Interesting endorsement of Obama from the main paper in Salt Lake city which I'd have thought would have been very much in the Blue corner
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/romney-obama-state-president.html.csp (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/romney-obama-state-president.html.csp)

Two newspapers who have not endorsed a republican since 1972 have switched and are not firmly in the Romney, the biggest one is 'The Tennessean'.

This thing is very close and I hope that Romney hammers BO on Libia and on the lies, subsequent cover up and his miserable record as President of theses United States. :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2012, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: stew on October 22, 2012, 06:35:12 PM
I hope that Romney hammers BO on Libia and on the lies, subsequent cover up and his miserable record as President of theses United States. :)
And that will solve all ye're problems  ::)

Jasus but you're some harmless gom  :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 22, 2012, 07:33:04 PM
(http://www.e-forwards.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/romnesia-funny-mitt-romney-poster-liar.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 23, 2012, 04:14:13 AM
Debates' Score

Obama 2  Romney 1

Unfortunately for President Obama, he lost the crucial one--the first, but tonight he won handsomely.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2012, 04:22:50 AM
Is there any previous position Romney WON'T deny holding?

Obama shaded it, but only because Romney agreed with him so much. Can't trounce someone who agrees with you!

Two weeks to go.... neck and neck.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 23, 2012, 11:01:46 AM
(http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/546979_368052969949079_140731203_n.jpg)

Oh no . . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 23, 2012, 03:45:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2012, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: stew on October 22, 2012, 06:35:12 PM
I hope that Romney hammers BO on Libia and on the lies, subsequent cover up and his miserable record as President of theses United States. :)
And that will solve all ye're problems  ::)

Jasus but you're some harmless gom  :-\

You are the gom....were did I say that would solve all our problems?

You need comprehension lessons, going back to school would do you no harm cub!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 23, 2012, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 23, 2012, 04:14:13 AM
Debates' Score

Obama 2  Romney 1

Unfortunately for President Obama, he lost the crucial one--the first, but tonight he won handsomely.

If you think Bo won two of those debates you are fecked in the head Orais.

Romney looked Presidential last night, BO was a great man for the sound bites and for interrupting Romney, Obamanation got his facts wrong and Romney hammered him on it.

Obama won feck all last night, they were both average at best, lying through your teeth on foreign policy, domestic policy and destroying the country for future generations does not a good President make.

I am sure you are all delighted that Obama claims to have  a stronger relationship with Israel than ever before. ;)

Obama is a nightmare, unparalleled debt, lies, big government & he even apologized to the American people for losing touch with them, and you lot want this chube elected again?

The mind boggles.

Oh yeah, nice of the Dems to send letters threatening Republican registered voters that their citizenship is in question and that if they tried to vote without getting cleared to do so they would be done with a felony and do jail time. Stay classy democrats!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on October 23, 2012, 04:13:23 PM
Quote from: stew on October 23, 2012, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 23, 2012, 04:14:13 AM
Debates' Score

Obama 2  Romney 1

Unfortunately for President Obama, he lost the crucial one--the first, but tonight he won handsomely.

If you think Bo won two of those debates you are fecked in the head Orais.

Romney looked Presidential last night, BO was a great man for the sound bites and for interrupting Romney, Obamanation got his facts wrong and Romney hammered him on it.

Obama won feck all last night, they were both average at best, lying through your teeth on foreign policy, domestic policy and destroying the country for future generations does not a good President make.

I am sure you are all delighted that Obama claims to have  a stronger relationship with Israel than ever before. ;)

Obama is a nightmare, unparalleled debt, lies, big government & he even apologized to the American people for losing touch with them, and you lot want this chube elected again?



You do realise that all the polls after the debate (CBS, CNN), showed Obama winning handily. And if you checked your facts, you'd see the size of the government had decreased in a big way under Obama.

Two conservative media outlets - Forbes and Marketwatch - show that it has decreased big time. He is in fact the small government spender since Eisenhower.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: naka on October 23, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
obama won clearly last night, it wasnt a knockout but he was the victor

dont care eithe way for the result altho it looks like obama will wqueeze it like bush did over gore
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2012, 04:43:57 PM
Quote from: stew on October 23, 2012, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 23, 2012, 04:14:13 AM
Debates' Score

Obama 2  Romney 1

Unfortunately for President Obama, he lost the crucial one--the first, but tonight he won handsomely.

If you think Bo won two of those debates you are fecked in the head Orais.

Romney looked Presidential last night, BO was a great man for the sound bites and for interrupting Romney, Obamanation got his facts wrong and Romney hammered him on it.

Obama won feck all last night, they were both average at best, lying through your teeth on foreign policy, domestic policy and destroying the country for future generations does not a good President make.

I am sure you are all delighted that Obama claims to have  a stronger relationship with Israel than ever before. ;)

Obama is a nightmare, unparalleled debt, lies, big government & he even apologized to the American people for losing touch with them, and you lot want this chube elected again?

The mind boggles.

Oh yeah, nice of the Dems to send letters threatening Republican registered voters that their citizenship is in question and that if they tried to vote without getting cleared to do so they would be done with a felony and do jail time. Stay classy democrats!

f**k me Stew, you are either hopelessly ignorant or completely disingenuous. The right wing are the masters of dirty tricks, from phoning minorities to "advise" them of "changes" of dates or venues for voting, to grassroots and government efforts to purge voter lists, using sledgehammers instead of fine toothcombs. Assuming your story is true (some details would help), it ain't a patch on the Republicans. Let's hope your outrage at such tactics is genuine and you can similarly condemn the Republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2012, 05:03:36 PM
Quote from: stew on October 23, 2012, 03:45:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2012, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: stew on October 22, 2012, 06:35:12 PM
I hope that Romney hammers BO on Libia and on the lies, subsequent cover up and his miserable record as President of theses United States. :)

going back to school would do you no harm cub!

I'm not alone it would seem.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 05:38:39 PM
They are both politicians and they both lie. They showed that last night and on other nights. They aren't the first to do so and they won't be the last.
Romney was out of his depth last night. I still think he will shade it though.
I believe he will be bad for the country.
I'm surprised they didn't go after his faith some more - I'm even surprised the Republican Party put him forward based on their so called strong Christian roots.
I have encountered a few Mormons and here is a sample of some of their beliefs: http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/fourteen (http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/fourteen)

Regardless of that though I would be worried about what his immediate plans are to shut down this, that and the other and to challenge current policy overseas.
Interesting times ahead for those of us living here....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on October 23, 2012, 05:48:11 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 05:38:39 PM
I have encountered a few Mormons and here is a sample of some of their beliefs: http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/fourteen (http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/fourteen)


I feel I have to challenge you on this buddy. I think it is fair to suggest that with your unwavering dedication to the Catholic Church, you have more that you feel you should protect than I might.

When you say encountered - what do you mean? The dudes at your door in matching ties pressing books of mormon into you?

Nevada has a very large population of mormon folks, and in all sections of my life I have relationships with them. Work, play, social, coaching. I have said before on here that they are some of the nicest, most decent human beings I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Dismissing someone because they are Mormon would be a very wrong thing to do in my book. I am glad to call upwards of 10 of them good friends.

There are of course, very fundamental people within any church, or group. I like to think I can seperate the people, from the church.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 05:57:59 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 23, 2012, 05:48:11 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 05:38:39 PM
I have encountered a few Mormons and here is a sample of some of their beliefs: http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/fourteen (http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/fourteen)


I feel I have to challenge you on this buddy. I think it is fair to suggest that with your unwavering dedication to the Catholic Church, you have more that you feel you should protect than I might.

When you say encountered - what do you mean? The dudes at your door in matching ties pressing books of mormon into you?

Nevada has a very large population of mormon folks, and in all sections of my life I have relationships with them. Work, play, social, coaching. I have said before on here that they are some of the nicest, most decent human beings I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Dismissing someone because they are Mormon would be a very wrong thing to do in my book. I am glad to call upwards of 10 of them good friends.

There are of course, very fundamental people within any church, or group. I like to think I can seperate the people, from the church.
Yes Puck, the lads at the door.
I can respect you have friends who are Mormons and that you can seperate people from the Church - but can your mormon friends?  We don't have to draw this out and you can email me on the side if you want but something for you to think about too..... I'm not saying they aren't good people, kind people, even the salt of the earth in many cases.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2012, 06:09:34 PM
Why would the Dems attack Romney for his religion? The Republicans are the religious party. I doubt if most Democrats give religion a second thought when it comes to politics beyond fearing lunatic Bachmann types and keeping it out of official policy, science and any other place it doesn't belong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 06:53:57 PM
Because its an extreme fundamentalist group not recognised by the other Christian Churches. Because Romney is or was a Bishop in this Church. Because one of their beliefs is the second coming cannot happen until Mormons are in key positions of power in America. Because it is difficult to serve two masters - America and his god.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2012, 07:33:52 PM
Did they not level the two masters argument at Kennedy?

And weren't GW Bush and Carter devout believers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 07:50:45 PM
GW and Carter didn't believe they needed to be President so Jesus would be born again in the midwest....

but thats a different topic and maybe just be speaking out loud too much of my own fears. I'm not convinced in Romney, despite Puck's endorsement of his brethren :) and his religion worries me greatly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2012, 09:39:52 PM
You are considerably more sympathetic to religion than I am. What do you fear so much in terms of religious issues?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 23, 2012, 11:27:12 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 06:53:57 PM
Because its an extreme fundamentalist group not recognised by the other Christian Churches. Because Romney is or was a Bishop in this Church. Because one of their beliefs is the second coming cannot happen until Mormons are in key positions of power in America. Because it is difficult to serve two masters - America and his god.

People with attitudes like that have been keeping Catholics out of the white-house.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 24, 2012, 12:25:10 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 23, 2012, 04:13:23 PM
Quote from: stew on October 23, 2012, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 23, 2012, 04:14:13 AM
Debates' Score

Obama 2  Romney 1

Unfortunately for President Obama, he lost the crucial one--the first, but tonight he won handsomely.

If you think Bo won two of those debates you are fecked in the head Orais.

Romney looked Presidential last night, BO was a great man for the sound bites and for interrupting Romney, Obamanation got his facts wrong and Romney hammered him on it.

Obama won feck all last night, they were both average at best, lying through your teeth on foreign policy, domestic policy and destroying the country for future generations does not a good President make.

I am sure you are all delighted that Obama claims to have  a stronger relationship with Israel than ever before. ;)

Obama is a nightmare, unparalleled debt, lies, big government & he even apologized to the American people for losing touch with them, and you lot want this chube elected again?



You do realise that all the polls after the debate (CBS, CNN), showed Obama winning handily. And if you checked your facts, you'd see the size of the government had decreased in a big way under Obama.

Two conservative media outlets - Forbes and Marketwatch - show that it has decreased big time. He is in fact the small government spender since Eisenhower.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/

CBS......CNN, what about CNBC? If you are cursed with looking at only the liberal media, then of course Obamanation won, i look at it all, I look at the debates, takes notes & I thought that Obama won on some points and Romney won on other points, to me it was a draw.

Obama is desperate, Romnesia is great except BO told far more porkie pies than did Romney, Obama is a disaster, was a disaster and always be a disaster, he is brutal!

I expect the Prez will win, given his abominal record I can only assume that the socailists on here want him to win so that he can further fcuk the country up, if so job done.

I wanted this idiot to do well, I am on record as saying as much, he did fcuk all to work with the republicans and as a result he got nothing done......................all romney did in Mass was to have the best education system in the country, what did BO do? feck all is what he did!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2012, 01:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on October 24, 2012, 12:25:10 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 23, 2012, 04:13:23 PM
Quote from: stew on October 23, 2012, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 23, 2012, 04:14:13 AM
Debates' Score

Obama 2  Romney 1

Unfortunately for President Obama, he lost the crucial one--the first, but tonight he won handsomely.

If you think Bo won two of those debates you are fecked in the head Orais.

Romney looked Presidential last night, BO was a great man for the sound bites and for interrupting Romney, Obamanation got his facts wrong and Romney hammered him on it.

Obama won feck all last night, they were both average at best, lying through your teeth on foreign policy, domestic policy and destroying the country for future generations does not a good President make.

I am sure you are all delighted that Obama claims to have  a stronger relationship with Israel than ever before. ;)

Obama is a nightmare, unparalleled debt, lies, big government & he even apologized to the American people for losing touch with them, and you lot want this chube elected again?



You do realise that all the polls after the debate (CBS, CNN), showed Obama winning handily. And if you checked your facts, you'd see the size of the government had decreased in a big way under Obama.

Two conservative media outlets - Forbes and Marketwatch - show that it has decreased big time. He is in fact the small government spender since Eisenhower.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/

CBS......CNN, what about CNBC? If you are cursed with looking at only the liberal media, then of course Obamanation won, i look at it all, I look at the debates, takes notes & I thought that Obama won on some points and Romney won on other points, to me it was a draw.

Obama is desperate, Romnesia is great except BO told far more porkie pies than did Romney, Obama is a disaster, was a disaster and always be a disaster, he is brutal!

I expect the Prez will win, given his abominal record I can only assume that the socailists on here want him to win so that he can further fcuk the country up, if so job done.

I wanted this idiot to do well, I am on record as saying as much, he did fcuk all to work with the republicans and as a result he got nothing done......................all romney did in Mass was to have the best education system in the country, what did BO do? feck all is what he did!

For the THIRD time: CNBC is NOT LIBERAL! Its a Wall Street business channel.

But anyway, that aside, tell us... what efforts did the Republicans make to work with Obama??

From the very beginning they were determined to block anything and everything he did. The Dems negotiated with the likes of Collins, Snowe and other Republican moderates for months over health care, dropping the public option and so forth, and how many Republican votes did it get him? For their very own ideas i.e. the mandate, which they were very much for up until Obama came along. They just weren't interested in anything that might end up being seen as a win for Obama. And that is before we even get to the fiscal cliff last year (not even one dollar of increased taxes for every ten dollars of cuts was acceptable to the GOP in the debates). And have you forgotten the ongoing birther/Muslim shite which has been encouraged with a wink and a nod by the very top levels of the Republican leadership?

Speaking of which... Trump, professional attention whore with presumably with another tv show or something to promote, has something VERY BIG... HUGE... on the way tomorrow about Obama that MAY change the election... apparently! Maybe the birth cert IS a fake!  ::)

As for last night's debate, on what points did Romney win the debate? He echoed Obama on almost every important issue FFS, once again moderating his rhetoric for primetime (the campaign official who spoke about Romney doing an "etch a sketch" after the primaries wasn't bullshitting!!!). I wouldn't particularly hold Romney's lack of detailed foreign policy knowledge against him, as after all, Obama has been dealing with this shit daily for the past nearly four years and he hasn't. Everyone acknowledged that Romney hammered Obama in the first debate. Be a f**king man and accept that Obama shaded last night. Its not like its going to affect the race much anyway.

And spare us the socialism crap. I've asked you this before: what exactly should Obama have done when he took over in 2009? What do you think McCain would have done? What would Bush have done if it had all went down 12 months earlier? You're full of abusive labels for Obama, so you obviously must have some remedies for what was the worst financial meltdown in 80 years that apparently escaped him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on October 24, 2012, 03:41:17 AM
Quote from: stew on October 24, 2012, 12:25:10 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 23, 2012, 04:13:23 PM
Quote from: stew on October 23, 2012, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 23, 2012, 04:14:13 AM
Debates' Score

Obama 2  Romney 1

Unfortunately for President Obama, he lost the crucial one--the first, but tonight he won handsomely.

If you think Bo won two of those debates you are fecked in the head Orais.

Romney looked Presidential last night, BO was a great man for the sound bites and for interrupting Romney, Obamanation got his facts wrong and Romney hammered him on it.

Obama won feck all last night, they were both average at best, lying through your teeth on foreign policy, domestic policy and destroying the country for future generations does not a good President make.

I am sure you are all delighted that Obama claims to have  a stronger relationship with Israel than ever before. ;)

Obama is a nightmare, unparalleled debt, lies, big government & he even apologized to the American people for losing touch with them, and you lot want this chube elected again?



You do realise that all the polls after the debate (CBS, CNN), showed Obama winning handily. And if you checked your facts, you'd see the size of the government had decreased in a big way under Obama.

Two conservative media outlets - Forbes and Marketwatch - show that it has decreased big time. He is in fact the small government spender since Eisenhower.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/

CBS......CNN, what about CNBC? If you are cursed with looking at only the liberal media, then of course Obamanation won, i look at it all, I look at the debates, takes notes & I thought that Obama won on some points and Romney won on other points, to me it was a draw.

Obama is desperate, Romnesia is great except BO told far more porkie pies than did Romney, Obama is a disaster, was a disaster and always be a disaster, he is brutal!

I expect the Prez will win, given his abominal record I can only assume that the socailists on here want him to win so that he can further fcuk the country up, if so job done.

I wanted this idiot to do well, I am on record as saying as much, he did fcuk all to work with the republicans and as a result he got nothing done......................all romney did in Mass was to have the best education system in the country, what did BO do? feck all is what he did!

I hope you are taking the piss. The top education system in MA was in place long before Romney was governor and was still there after he left - he had nothing to do with its creation. Romney taking credit for that was worse than Gore taking credit for creating the internet. Then again the education is so bad elsewhere there's plenty that will believe this stuff. Safe to say some of those potential voters won't be Harvard or MIT bound anytime soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 24, 2012, 06:41:43 AM
Quote from: stew on October 24, 2012, 12:25:10 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 23, 2012, 04:13:23 PM
Quote from: stew on October 23, 2012, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 23, 2012, 04:14:13 AM
Debates' Score

Obama 2  Romney 1

Unfortunately for President Obama, he lost the crucial one--the first, but tonight he won handsomely.

If you think Bo won two of those debates you are fecked in the head Orais.

Romney looked Presidential last night, BO was a great man for the sound bites and for interrupting Romney, Obamanation got his facts wrong and Romney hammered him on it.

Obama won feck all last night, they were both average at best, lying through your teeth on foreign policy, domestic policy and destroying the country for future generations does not a good President make.

I am sure you are all delighted that Obama claims to have  a stronger relationship with Israel than ever before. ;)

Obama is a nightmare, unparalleled debt, lies, big government & he even apologized to the American people for losing touch with them, and you lot want this chube elected again?



You do realise that all the polls after the debate (CBS, CNN), showed Obama winning handily. And if you checked your facts, you'd see the size of the government had decreased in a big way under Obama.

Two conservative media outlets - Forbes and Marketwatch - show that it has decreased big time. He is in fact the small government spender since Eisenhower.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/

CBS......CNN, what about CNBC? If you are cursed with looking at only the liberal media, then of course Obamanation won, i look at it all, I look at the debates, takes notes & I thought that Obama won on some points and Romney won on other points, to me it was a draw.

Obama is desperate, Romnesia is great except BO told far more porkie pies than did Romney, Obama is a disaster, was a disaster and always be a disaster, he is brutal!

I expect the Prez will win, given his abominal record I can only assume that the socailists on here want him to win so that he can further fcuk the country up, if so job done.

I wanted this idiot to do well, I am on record as saying as much, he did fcuk all to work with the republicans and as a result he got nothing done......................all romney did in Mass was to have the best education system in the country, what did BO do? feck all is what he did!

Still don't understand why you wouldn't be arsed getting your citizenship and voting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 24, 2012, 09:45:02 AM
Ex-Congressional Budget Director Says Obama Has Best Chance of Avoiding Fiscal Cliff.
With the country facing a "fiscal cliff" in which taxes are set to skyrocket by hundreds of billions of dollars, President Barack Obama may be the better presidential candidate to ensure Congress does not fail to get a deal done that would keep the nation from going over the edge, said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who oversaw the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office under President George W. Bush. If the country goes over the cliff, insurance companies — like thousands of other businesses — could see their investment portfolios and balance sheets take a significant hit.

Another interesting reaction from an unlikely source - Douglas J. "Doug" Holtz-Eakin is an American economist, former professor, former Director of the Congressional Budget Office and former chief economic policy adviser to U.S. Senator John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign speaking to the ACLI this week - hardly a bunch of liberal pinko types ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 03:58:22 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/gop-senate-candidate-god-intended-pregnancies-rape-061057785--abc-news-politics.html

Indiana Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock said pregnancies resulting from rape are part of God's plan, tearfully explaining that he only supports abortions when a mother's life is in danger.

"I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen," Mourdock said during Tuesday's Senate debate, choking up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2012, 04:10:05 PM
Makes sense to me, IF you're a believer. If life and death are all part of your god's plan, surely that includes conception?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 24, 2012, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 06:53:57 PM
Because its an extreme fundamentalist group not recognised by the other Christian Churches. Because Romney is or was a Bishop in this Church. Because one of their beliefs is the second coming cannot happen until Mormons are in key positions of power in America. Because it is difficult to serve two masters - America and his god.

ICE that's pretty much word for word the argument used against JFK in his run...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dag Dog on October 24, 2012, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 03:58:22 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/gop-senate-candidate-god-intended-pregnancies-rape-061057785--abc-news-politics.html

Indiana Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock said pregnancies resulting from rape are part of God's plan, tearfully explaining that he only supports abortions when a mother's life is in danger.

"I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen," Mourdock said during Tuesday's Senate debate, choking up.
Unfortunately he is repeating what a large core of Republican hicks and rednecks believe anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: Dag Dog on October 24, 2012, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 03:58:22 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/gop-senate-candidate-god-intended-pregnancies-rape-061057785--abc-news-politics.html

Indiana Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock said pregnancies resulting from rape are part of God's plan, tearfully explaining that he only supports abortions when a mother's life is in danger.

"I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen," Mourdock said during Tuesday's Senate debate, choking up.
Unfortunately he is repeating what a large core of Republican hicks and rednecks believe anyway.
So by that line of thinking the holocaust was part of God's plan. Cue arrival of Mr Sheehy
the Famine was god's plan. So too was AIDS. What a deluded view of things.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 24, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2012, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 06:53:57 PM
Because its an extreme fundamentalist group not recognised by the other Christian Churches. Because Romney is or was a Bishop in this Church. Because one of their beliefs is the second coming cannot happen until Mormons are in key positions of power in America. Because it is difficult to serve two masters - America and his god.

ICE that's pretty much word for word the argument used against JFK in his run...

Maybe you should narrow your quote tags Stew. Because JFK wasn't a bishop, nor does the RC Church state that once Catholics are in power Jesus will come again out of the mid West of America....

the argument against JFK at the time was his accountability to the Church / Pope. My point was more about how Mormons are supposed to get into powerful positions. Once they do what will be asked of them?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 24, 2012, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 24, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2012, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 06:53:57 PM
Because its an extreme fundamentalist group not recognised by the other Christian Churches. Because Romney is or was a Bishop in this Church. Because one of their beliefs is the second coming cannot happen until Mormons are in key positions of power in America. Because it is difficult to serve two masters - America and his god.

ICE that's pretty much word for word the argument used against JFK in his run...

Maybe you should narrow your quote tags Stew. Because JFK wasn't a bishop, nor does the RC Church state that once Catholics are in power Jesus will come again out of the mid West of America....

the argument against JFK at the time was his accountability to the Church / Pope. My point was more about how Mormons are supposed to get into powerful positions. Once they do what will be asked of them?

I think his corporate sponsors will be calling the shots not his church. I have little time for any churches, but given recent work in the office maybe it is time to give the churches a rattle at it! Besides Jesus coming back from the Mid-West in cowboy hat would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on October 24, 2012, 06:56:15 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 24, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2012, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 06:53:57 PM
Because its an extreme fundamentalist group not recognised by the other Christian Churches. Because Romney is or was a Bishop in this Church. Because one of their beliefs is the second coming cannot happen until Mormons are in key positions of power in America. Because it is difficult to serve two masters - America and his god.

ICE that's pretty much word for word the argument used against JFK in his run...

Maybe you should narrow your quote tags Stew. Because JFK wasn't a bishop, nor does the RC Church state that once Catholics are in power Jesus will come again out of the mid West of America....

the argument against JFK at the time was his accountability to the Church / Pope. My point was more about how Mormons are supposed to get into powerful positions. Once they do what will be asked of them?

Are you suggesting that a small religious sect in America could have a powerful and clandestine influence upon American policy???

Because that would just be crazy!!

(http://undercover4liberty.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/obama_and_israel.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2012, 07:01:17 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 24, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2012, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 06:53:57 PM
Because its an extreme fundamentalist group not recognised by the other Christian Churches. Because Romney is or was a Bishop in this Church. Because one of their beliefs is the second coming cannot happen until Mormons are in key positions of power in America. Because it is difficult to serve two masters - America and his god.

ICE that's pretety much word for word the argument used against JFK in his run...

Maybe you should narrow your quote tags Stew. Because JFK wasn't a bishop, nor does the RC Church state that once Catholics are in power Jesus will come again out of the mid West of America....

the argument against JFK at the time was his accountability to the Church / Pope. My point was more about how Mormons are supposed to get into powerful positions. Once they do what will be asked of them?

So what do YOU think might be asked of him?

And assuming something is, what makes you think he can deliver?

There was and still is lots of paranoid fear mongering about what Obama was going to do if elected (ban rush Limbaugh, take away guns, FEMA reeducation camps, etc,
There are numerous checks on presidential power. Romney or Obama will not be king and able to act on their stupidest and most questionable whims.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on October 24, 2012, 07:17:23 PM
Trumps big announcement :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgOq9pBkY0I&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 24, 2012, 07:54:32 PM
I got a phone cal yesterday in NJ and the Caller ID said "defeat obama'
I didn't pick up  but I'm sure its more silly propaganda...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2012, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!

It's just about publicity for Trump.

Is there a more odious, shameless person in US public life?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 24, 2012, 08:17:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!


Trump has his own agenda on this, this has nothing to do with the Republicans!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 24, 2012, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2012, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!

It's just about publicity for Trump.

Is there a more odious, shameless person in US public life?


Nope! Horrible hoor!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2012, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!

It's just about publicity for Trump.

Is there a more odious, shameless person in US public life?
Cheney, anyone at AIPAC, Lieberman, Gingrich
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 24, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2012, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!

It's just about publicity for Trump.

Is there a more odious, shameless person in US public life?
Cheney, anyone at AIPAC, Lieberman, Gingrich

Bachmann??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:29:56 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 24, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2012, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 23, 2012, 06:53:57 PM
Because its an extreme fundamentalist group not recognised by the other Christian Churches. Because Romney is or was a Bishop in this Church. Because one of their beliefs is the second coming cannot happen until Mormons are in key positions of power in America. Because it is difficult to serve two masters - America and his god.

ICE that's pretty much word for word the argument used against JFK in his run...

Maybe you should narrow your quote tags Stew. Because JFK wasn't a bishop, nor does the RC Church state that once Catholics are in power Jesus will come again out of the mid West of America....

the argument against JFK at the time was his accountability to the Church / Pope. My point was more about how Mormons are supposed to get into powerful positions. Once they do what will be asked of them?
They will asked to continue with the imperial project same as obama. Drones and death for what the Marines term  "dune coons".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 24, 2012, 08:31:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2012, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!

It's just about publicity for Trump.

Is there a more odious, shameless person in US public life?
Cheney, anyone at AIPAC, Lieberman, Gingrich

Feck, I forgot about Cheney, Gingrich is just a blowhard, Liberman is not that bad!

Oh I got two...................... How about that Clinton bitch and worse still......................Pelosi.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:33:33 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2012, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!

It's just about publicity for Trump.

Is there a more odious, shameless person in US public life?
Cheney, anyone at AIPAC, Lieberman, Gingrich

Bachmann??
this was funny

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/07/12/bill-maher-calls-palin-and-bachmann-milfs-cnn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 24, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2012, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!

It's just about publicity for Trump.

Is there a more odious, shameless person in US public life?
Cheney, anyone at AIPAC, Lieberman, Gingrich

Bachmann??

What was wrong with him? Jaysus if it wasn't for him the Penguin would be running Gotham.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 10:36:46 PM
The Palins would appear to be  a family of tramps.Bristol Palin insulted someone online by saying he would end up a failure "like my baby daddy". WTF?   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on October 25, 2012, 10:23:15 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 24, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2012, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
Hahaha! So it's another last-ditch effort to swift-boat the Obama campaign? Jon Stewart's gonna have a field day!

It's just about publicity for Trump.

Is there a more odious, shameless person in US public life?
Cheney, anyone at AIPAC, Lieberman, Gingrich

Bachmann??

What was wrong with him? Jaysus if it wasn't for him the Penguin would be running Gotham.

Ah ffs, AZ, keep up. It's this fella:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7miRCLeFSJo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 25, 2012, 10:38:43 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 25, 2012, 10:23:15 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 24, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
Bachmann??

What was wrong with him? Jaysus if it wasn't for him the Penguin would be running Gotham.

Ah ffs, AZ, keep up. It's this fella:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7miRCLeFSJo

Glad you cleared that up. I thought AZ was giving Michael Bloomberg way too much credit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 25, 2012, 11:29:55 AM
I think this one is up there in being  odious and shameless:
As is her custom, provocative conservative commentator Ann Coulter was decidedly politically incorrect in her assessment of the final presidential debate last night. Ms. Coulter took to Twitter where she used a derogatory term to describe President Barack Obama.

"I highly approve of Romney's decision to be kind and gentle to the retard," Ms. Coulter wrote.

Her comment comes less than two weeks after Dan Niblock, the father of a young boy with Down syndrome, published an essay on the website of NBC's Today taking Ms. Coulter to task for using the same term in another tweet. It's apparently a habit of Ms. Coulter's.

"I want Ann Coulter to apologize for using a form of hate speech that is particularly searing to people who have special needs. This isn't the first time she has tweeted the word "retarded" to insult her rivals, and she needs to stop. Her behavior is not acceptable," Mr. Niblock wrote.

These complaints clearly haven't had much effect on Ms. Coulter, who has been unapologetic of her past politically incorrect remarks. Still, we reached out to Ms. Coulter to see if she had any regrets about her post-debate tweet. As of this writing, we have yet to receive a response. We won't hold our breath.

Update (3:00 a.m.): In an email to Politicker, Ms. Coulter doubled down and made it clear she's not worried about upsetting anyone with her choice of words.

Thought this was a wonderful response to her though  -http://specialolympicsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/an-open-letter-to-ann-coulter/ (http://specialolympicsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/an-open-letter-to-ann-coulter/)

Though in the spirit of bi-patisanship I see the Dems are fully on board with voter fraud ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2012, 12:42:05 PM
Don't think too many people outside of the Fox News crowd give a bollocks what Ann Coulter says anymore. She's just a parody at this point, saying outrageous things just to get attention or sell a book. Astute political analyst she ain't!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 25, 2012, 02:54:16 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 25, 2012, 11:29:55 AM
I think this one is up there in being  odious and shameless:
As is her custom, provocative conservative commentator Ann Coulter was decidedly politically incorrect in her assessment of the final presidential debate last night. Ms. Coulter took to Twitter where she used a derogatory term to describe President Barack Obama.

"I highly approve of Romney's decision to be kind and gentle to the retard," Ms. Coulter wrote.

Her comment comes less than two weeks after Dan Niblock, the father of a young boy with Down syndrome, published an essay on the website of NBC's Today taking Ms. Coulter to task for using the same term in another tweet. It's apparently a habit of Ms. Coulter's.

"I want Ann Coulter to apologize for using a form of hate speech that is particularly searing to people who have special needs. This isn't the first time she has tweeted the word "retarded" to insult her rivals, and she needs to stop. Her behavior is not acceptable," Mr. Niblock wrote.

These complaints clearly haven't had much effect on Ms. Coulter, who has been unapologetic of her past politically incorrect remarks. Still, we reached out to Ms. Coulter to see if she had any regrets about her post-debate tweet. As of this writing, we have yet to receive a response. We won't hold our breath.

Update (3:00 a.m.): In an email to Politicker, Ms. Coulter doubled down and made it clear she's not worried about upsetting anyone with her choice of words.

Thought this was a wonderful response to her though  -http://specialolympicsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/an-open-letter-to-ann-coulter/ (http://specialolympicsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/an-open-letter-to-ann-coulter/)

Though in the spirit of bi-patisanship I see the Dems are fully on board with voter fraud ;)

Coulter is a despicable bitch and I don't know how she still has a job!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 25, 2012, 08:24:41 PM
Paddypower offering 15-8 on Romney, with Obama at 2-5. So whatever you think about polls political leanings that's what the bookies make of this race.

I note that bet is worded "winning candidate of the  election", so not too clear on if they're paying first past the post of if the stewards inquiry (i.e. Supreme Court) will come into play!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2012, 09:07:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2012, 12:42:05 PM
Don't think too many people outside of the Fox News crowd give a bollocks what Ann Coulter says anymore. She's just a parody at this point, saying outrageous things just to get attention or sell a book. Astute political analyst she ain't!

Nothing but a blatant shock jock vying for attention by trying to say the most outragious and stupid thing.

I'd still give her one though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2012, 09:37:51 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/25/climate-change-david-attenborough

One of the world's leading naturalists has accused US politicians of ducking the issue of climate change because of the economic cost of tackling it and warned that it would take a terrible example of extreme weather to wake people up to the dangers of global warming.

Speaking just days after the subject of climate change failed to get a mention in the US presidential debates for the first time in 24 years, Sir David Attenborough told the Guardian: "[It] does worry me that most powerful nation in the world, North America, denies what the rest of us can see very clearly [on climate change]. I don't know what you do about that. It's easier to deny."



Asked what was needed to wake people up, the veteran broadcaster famous for series such as Life and Planet Earth said: "Disaster. It's a terrible thing to say, isn't it? Even disaster doesn't do it. There have been disasters in North America, with hurricanes and floods, yet still people deny and say 'oh, it has nothing to do with climate change.' It visibly has got [something] to do with climate change."

But some US politicians found it easier to deny the science on climate change than take action, he said, because the consequence of recognising the science on man-made climate change "means a huge section from the national budget will be spent in order to deal with it, plenty of politicians will be happy to say 'don't worry about that, we're not going to increase your taxes.'"

Neither Barack Obama or Mitt Romney mentioned climate change in three TV debates, despite a summer of record temperatures and historic drought in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 26, 2012, 12:51:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2012, 09:07:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2012, 12:42:05 PM
Don't think too many people outside of the Fox News crowd give a bollocks what Ann Coulter says anymore. She's just a parody at this point, saying outrageous things just to get attention or sell a book. Astute political analyst she ain't!

Nothing but a blatant shock jock vying for attention by trying to say the most outragious and stupid thing.

I'd still give her one though.

A bit too tranny-like for my taste. :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 26, 2012, 01:34:55 PM
When in Rome / San Fransisco....  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 26, 2012, 02:00:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 26, 2012, 01:34:55 PM
When in Rome / San Fransisco....  :)

Or the People's Gaypublic of Drugafornia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 26, 2012, 02:29:55 PM
Some interesting figures in here on the campaign finances etc. Notable difference in the type of employee funding each

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/ (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/)

(http://themonkeycage.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/prescontributors.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 26, 2012, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 26, 2012, 02:29:55 PM
Some interesting figures in here on the campaign finances etc. Notable difference in the type of employee funding each

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/ (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/)

(http://themonkeycage.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/prescontributors.png)

If Goldman Sachs is top of your list of supporters you know there's something wrong right there!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 26, 2012, 02:36:15 PM
US Government?! :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on October 26, 2012, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 26, 2012, 02:36:15 PM
US Government?! :o

NOTE: The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.

So anyone who works for the government is counted here?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 26, 2012, 02:47:37 PM
That's very disengenously presented. I know they have the disclaimer underneath, but it appears as if the organisations themselves are direct contributors. I can see all sorts of wrong inferrences being drawn here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 26, 2012, 02:53:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 26, 2012, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 26, 2012, 02:29:55 PM
Some interesting figures in here on the campaign finances etc. Notable difference in the type of employee funding each

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/ (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/)

(http://themonkeycage.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/prescontributors.png)

If Goldman Sachs is top of your list of supporters you know there's something wrong right there!!!


Yet you are blind to number 5 on Obama's list. Rose tinted glasses and all that.

Now we have a president who has accepted funds from the Government he heads up, isn't that sort of wrong? where is the moral outrage? all you can see is Goldman Sachs and yet you fail miserably to see the one entity that should never donate to a parties drive for the white house. For shame!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 26, 2012, 02:54:42 PM
And there is the inferrence I was talking about, right on cue :D Take a look at the note Stew. The government does not directly donate to Obama's campaign, nor does GS to Romney. However, companies may be part of a PAC.

Connected PACs

Most of the 4,600 active, registered PACs are "connected PACs" established by businesses, labor unions, trade groups, or health organizations. These PACs receive and raise money from a "restricted class," generally consisting of managers and shareholders in the case of a corporation and members in the case of a union or other interest group. As of January 2009, there were 1,598 registered corporate PACs, 272 related to labor unions and 995 to trade organizations.[5]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 26, 2012, 03:28:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 26, 2012, 02:54:42 PM
And there is the inferrence I was talking about, right on cue :D Take a look at the note Stew. The government does not directly donate to Obama's campaign, nor does GS to Romney. However, companies may be part of a PAC.

Connected PACs

Most of the 4,600 active, registered PACs are "connected PACs" established by businesses, labor unions, trade groups, or health organizations. These PACs receive and raise money from a "restricted class," generally consisting of managers and shareholders in the case of a corporation and members in the case of a union or other interest group. As of January 2009, there were 1,598 registered corporate PACs, 272 related to labor unions and 995 to trade organizations.[5]

Thank you for the explanation. I think...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 26, 2012, 04:10:38 PM
What is the problem with government workers contributing? Should they not be allowed to support their preferred political candidate? Don't they have a say in who runs the country?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 26, 2012, 04:16:53 PM
For those interested, the cans and cannots for federal employees under the Hatch Act and amendments when it comes to political campaigns:

http://www.osc.gov/documents/hatchact/ha_fed.pdf (http://www.osc.gov/documents/hatchact/ha_fed.pdf)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 26, 2012, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: stew on October 26, 2012, 02:53:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 26, 2012, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 26, 2012, 02:29:55 PM
Some interesting figures in here on the campaign finances etc. Notable difference in the type of employee funding each

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/ (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/)

(http://themonkeycage.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/prescontributors.png)

If Goldman Sachs is top of your list of supporters you know there's something wrong right there!!!


Yet you are blind to number 5 on Obama's list. Rose tinted glasses and all that.

Now we have a president who has accepted funds from the Government he heads up, isn't that sort of wrong? where is the moral outrage? all you can see is Goldman Sachs and yet you fail miserably to see the one entity that should never donate to a parties drive for the white house. For shame!

Its government workers, NOT the government!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 26, 2012, 04:26:12 PM
Goldman Sachs people actually gave Obama four times as much as McCain in 2008 (and more in total that Romney has received, to date). I guess that was before he was "mean" to Wall Street with his support for Dodd-Frank! There's also the fact that Obama was clearly going to win from six weeks out, so many probably threw in with the winning candidate.

McCain's top five contributors in terms of employers included Goldman and they were all banking organizations!

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contriball.php?cycle=2008 (https://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contriball.php?cycle=2008)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 01, 2012, 11:26:16 AM
Yes, Romney's a Liar, But This Is Getting Ridiculous
by John Nichols
It is no secret that political candidates are capable of doing awful things when they are reach the desperate final days of an election campaign.

But trying to scare American workers into believing that a government initiative that saved their industry was some sort of secret scheme to shutter major plants and offshore jobs is more than just creepy. It's economic fear-mongering of a sort that is destructive to the spirit of communities and to the very future of the republic as an industrial force.

George Romney, who led the remarkable American Motors Company project that would eventually produce the Jeep, never in a political career that saw him win election as governor of Michigan and seek the Republican nomination for president would have engaged in such calumny.

But George Romney's ne're-do-well son, a very different sort of businessman who devoted his career to taking apart American companies and offshoring jobs, is trying to resurrect his presidential candidacy with a big lie.

And the lie is about Jeeps.

Jeeps are made in Toledo, Ohio, where the iconic American vehicle has been produced since 1941, and Romney needs to win Toledo and the rest of northwest Ohio if he is to stand a chance of winning the battleground state that is key to the presidency.

Last week, Romney went to the region and shocked voters by suggesting that: "I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China."

The story, an October 22 report by Bloomberg News, which specifically stated that: "Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. [Fiat/Chrysler executive Mike] Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China."

Yet, Romney spoke of the company that manufactures Jeeps "moving all production to China."

The statement stirred fundamental fears in a regional that has been battered by plant closings. So much so that Jeep's parent company, Chrysler, rushed to clarify that Romney was completely, totally, incredibly wrong. "Let's set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China," announced Chrysler.

Company spokesman Gaulberto Ranieri said that Romney had remade the facts so aggressively that: "It is a leap that would be difficult even for professional circus acrobats."

What was Romney's response to being caught in a lie.

He lied bigger.

Much bigger.

The Romney campaign is now airing an ad in Ohio that claims President Obama, with the auto bailout that saved domestic vehicle production, "sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China."

The ad concludes that Romney—whose Bain Capital enterprise identified as "a pioneer of outsourcing"—"will fight for every American job."

Kathleen Hall Jamieson, the director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, and one of the nation's top experts on political advertising reviewed the ad and dismissed it as "inferentially false."

"They are inviting a false inference," Hall said of the Romney campaign's attempt to suggest that Obama had engineered a change in Jeep's status that would see the Toledo plant shuttered and its more than 3,500 workers idled.

The Washington Post "Fact Checker" site reviewed Romney's ad and declared: "the overall message of the ad is clearly misleading—especially since it appears to have been designed to piggyback off of Romney's gross misstatement that Chrysler was moving Ohio factory jobs to China."

The pushback from Obama's backers and his campaign has been aggressive.

Former President Bill Clinton flew to Ohio and decried Romney's claim as "the biggest load of bull in the world."

Vice President Joe Biden said: "I have never seen anything like that. It's an absolutely, patently false assertion. It's such an outrageous assertion that, one of the few times in my memory, a major American corporation, Chrysler, has felt obliged to go public and say, there is no truth."

An Obama campaign ad announced that "now, after Romney's false claim of Jeep outsourcing to China, Chrysler itself has refuted Romney's lie."

What was Romney's response.

Up the ad buy.

Expand the big lie so that it is now enormous.

The deception has become such a serious issue that, on Tuesday, Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne felt compelled to clarify what is becoming an international controversy.

"Chrysler Group's production plans for the Jeep brand have become the focus of public debate. I feel obliged to unambiguously restate our position: Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China," wrote Marchionne, who added:

North American production is critical to achieving our goal of selling 800,000 Jeep vehicles by 2014. In fact, U.S. production of our Jeep models has nearly tripled (it is expected to be up 185 percent) since 2009 in order to keep up with global demand...

With the increase in demand for our vehicles, especially Jeep branded vehicles, we have added more than 11,200 U.S. jobs since 2009. Plants producing Jeep branded vehicles alone have seen the number of people invested in the success of the Jeep brand grow to more than 9,300 hourly jobs from 4,700. This will increase by an additional 1,100 as the Liberty successor, which will be produced in Toledo, is introduced for global distribution in the second quarter of 2013.
There was nothing unambiguous about that statement. Yet Marchionne continued: "Jeep is one of our truly global brands with uniquely American roots. This will never change. So much so that we committed that the iconic Wrangler nameplate, currently produced in our Toledo, Ohio, plant, will never see full production outside the United States."

"Jeep assembly lines will remain in operation in the United States and will constitute the backbone of the brand," confirmed Marchionne. "It is inaccurate to suggest anything different."

That's a rare commitment by a manufacturer—far more clear and unequivocal than the commitment Bain Capital made to the companies it bought up, tore apart and outsourced.

Yet, Mitt Romney's campaign is still running the ad.

Still lying.

That's made United Auto Workers union president Bob King furious:

It is especially hypocritical of Mr. Romney's statements and new ad is Bain Capital's closing of profitable U.S. facilities and shifting work to China to make even higher profits like what is happening today in closing a profitable Sensata plant in Freeport, IL, to move the work to China. Romney says in the ad that he will fight for every American job, so why isn't he fighting for the American jobs at Sensata? And why isn't he intervening with his own Bain Capital to keep these jobs in the U.S. rather than outsourcing them to China? We just wish that Mr. Romney was as committed to investing in the U.S. as Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne is.

Americans will remember that President Obama stood behind American working families and American communities in rescuing the U.S. auto industry and that Mr. Romney opposed the rescue and now attacks Chrysler with misinformation. In putting out this misinformation, Romney is recklessly undermining Chrysler's reputation and threatening good American jobs.
Imagine if Mitt Romney were to be elected president of the United States.

Imagine if he had to go into negotiations with Marchionne, or another CEO of another industrial giant, about protecting US jobs. Or expanding US manufacturing.

Would the executive trust Romney?

Or would the executive remember Romney as the politician who lied and then lied bigger in order to get what he wanted?

That's a question that American voters who want their country to have a future as a country that makes cars and trucks and Jeeps would be wise to ponder as November 6 approaches

(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/rom_sign_jw5jjl2tt0c9w-htw88_jq2.jpg)

(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/gum_7f6c81a822e311e2aaa222000a1fb843_7.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 01, 2012, 12:45:18 PM
I'm in line to vote as I type this, the wait so far is one hour and still have another hour to go. Tuesday is going to be a mess here in Florida. At least ten constitutional amendments on the ballot just to add further confusion to the  already long ballot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on November 02, 2012, 09:59:23 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on October 18, 2012, 05:38:09 PM
This is an excellent article showing how Romney and his buddies took over a bankrupt automotive company, made billions on the GM bailout, closed the factories and sacked 25,000 workers, moved  production to China, and floated the company for billions.....

http://www.thenation.com/article/170644/mitt-romneys-bailout-bonanza#

Seems Romney has a few questions to answer about his involvement in the auto bailout as outlined in  The Nation article......

UAW Files Charges Against Romney for Auto Bail-Out Profiteering
By Greg Palast, GregPalast.com
02 November 12


Broke ethics law hiding millions, say good government groups

or Mitt Romney, it's one scary Halloween. The Presidential candidate has just learned that tomorrow afternoon he will charged with violating the federal Ethics in Government law by improperly concealing his multi-million dollar windfall from the auto industry bail-out.

At a press conference in Toledo, Bob King, President of the United Automobile Workers, will announce that his union and Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) have filed a formal complaint with the US Office of Government Ethics in Washington stating that Gov. Romney improperly hid a profit of $15.3 million to $115.0 million in Ann Romney's so-called "blind" trust.

The union chief says, "The American people have a right to know about Gov. Romney's potential conflicts of interest, such as the profits his family made from the auto rescue," "It's time for Gov. Romney to disclose or divest."

"While Romney was opposing the rescue of one of the nation's most important manufacturing sectors, he was building his fortunes with his Delphi investor group, making his fortunes off the misfortunes of others," King added.

The Romneys' gigantic windfall was hidden inside an offshore corporation inside a Limited Partnership inside a trust which both concealed the gain and reduces taxes on it.

The Romneys' windfall was originally exposed in Nation Magazine, Mitt Romney's Bail-out Bonanza after a worldwide investigation by our crew at The Guardian, the Nation Institute and the Palast Investigative Fund. [Ed. - The full story of Romney and his "vulture fund" partners is in Palast's New York Times bestseller, Billionaires & Ballot Bandits.]

According to ethics law expert Dr. Craig Holman of Public Citizen, who advised on the complaint, Ann Romney does not have a federally-approved blind trust. An approved "blind" trust may not be used to hide a major investment which could be affected by Romney if he were to be elected President. Other groups joining the UAW and CREW include Public Citizen, the Service Employees International Union, Public Campaign, People for the American Way and The Social Equity Group.

President Obama's approved trust, for example, contains only highly-diversified mutual funds on which Presidential action can have little effect. By contrast, the auto bail-out provided a windfall of over 4,000% on one single Romney investment.

In 2009, Ann Romney partnered with her husband's key donor, billionaire Paul Singer, who secretly bought a controlling interest in Delphi Auto, the former GM auto parts division. Singer's hedge fund, Elliott Management, threatened to cut off GM's supply of steering columns unless GM and the government's TARP auto bail-out fund provided Delphi with huge payments. While the US treasury complained this was "extortion," the hedge funds received, ultimately, $12.9 billion in taxpayer subsidies.

As a result, the shares Singer and Romney bought for just 67 cents are today worth over $30, a 4,000% gain. Singer's hedge fund made a profit of $1.27 billion and the Romney's tens of millions.

The UAW complaint calls for Romney to reveal exactly how much he made off Delphi - and continues to make. The Singer syndicate, once in control of Delphi, eliminated every single UAW job - 25,000 - and moved almost all auto parts production to Mexico and China where Delphi now employs 25,000 auto parts workers.

Forensic Economist Greg Palast's investigative reports can be seen on BBC Television. His latest bestseller, Billionaires & Ballot Bandits: How to Steal an Election in 9 Easy Steps contains a comic book by Ted Rall and chapters by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. www.BallotBandits.org

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/14318-focus-uaw-files-charges-against-romney-for-auto-bail-out-profiteering
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 06, 2012, 02:22:26 AM
A terror attack on a US Embassy happens, within two minutes a terror group claims responsibility for the attack, the Prez is asked by CBS the next day id it was a terrorist attack, he is non commital, CBS sits on it until late on the eve of the election.............why???

Sandy hits America's shores, what does el Presidente do, he shows up for a photo op and fcuks off, never to be seen again............meanwhile at the ranch people have no water, food or heat, where is the fcuker???

You socialists should be ashamed of yourselves, when Obamanation took office 32 million were on food stamps, today there are 46 million on food stamps today!!!

There has been an 84% hike on gas prices.

Six trillion more debt, the prez calls for "revenge"

Fcuk the prez, we need change, we need it now and the Prez has been complete and utter shite, the man apologized to the people for losing touch with them two years ago..........................fast forward two years, Obama's Catriona and fcuks aff!

and he shows up for a photo op

With Sandy you saw Obamacare at it's finest, this thing could be won yet by Romney because Obama is hideous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2012, 03:36:28 AM
Is it true Paddy Power has already paid out to people who backed Obama?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 06, 2012, 07:49:30 AM
Too close to call? This guy knows why hes voting for GOP though
(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/rally_shirt_bd425f53d77cd55b739491c8eb8f6145.jpg)

Enjoyed this - http://www.youtube.com/embed/EDxOSjgl5Z4 (http://www.youtube.com/embed/EDxOSjgl5Z4)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Premier Emperor on November 06, 2012, 08:10:54 AM
Obama has it in the bag.
Any pundit who claims it's too close to call should be sacked.
He is ahead in more than enough swing states.
There aren't enough backward, redneck states to get Romney into  the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2012, 08:36:42 AM
Quote from: Premier Emperor on November 06, 2012, 08:10:54 AM
Any pundit who claims it's too close to call should be sacked.

Should be, but won't. Getting everything wrong hasn't been an impediment to Bill Kristol's punditry career.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on November 06, 2012, 08:52:24 AM
Quote from: stew on November 06, 2012, 02:22:26 AM
There has been an 84% hike on gas prices.

As usual there is a little bit more to it than taking the number the day he came into office and the number today.
http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2012/09/15/gasoline-prices-doubled-under-obama-true-or-false/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2012, 09:00:30 AM
Quote from: nifan on November 06, 2012, 08:52:24 AM
As usual there is a little bit more to it . . .

Of course there is. But why bother wasting the time explaining that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2012, 11:45:10 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2012, 03:36:28 AM
Is it true Paddy Power has already paid out to people who backed Obama?

http://www.newstatesman.com/star-spangled-staggers/2012/11/paddy-power-pays-out-obama-victory
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 06, 2012, 12:36:24 PM
From the Economist.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/11/presidential-race-0

IF THERE is one thing America's right- and left-leaning media seem to agree on as election day looms, it is that Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are locked in an exceedingly close and unpredictable race for the presidency. "With Time as Tight as Race, Romney and Obama Zero In", ran a recent headline in the New York Times; "Obama and Romney Deadlocked", concurs the Wall Street Journal. Even the most esteemed news outlets from abroad—such as, say, The Economist—pronounce it "about as close as it could be". If people who can barely agree on the colour of the sky can find common cause on this point, we can surely take it for granted and move along, right?

Strangely, what might be the least controversial notion in contemporary American politics is also one of the farthest from the truth. Yes, the national polls are roughly tied. But unlike every other civilised country with a presidential system of democracy, we don't have a national popular vote. And the state polls—which collectively represent a much bigger sample of voters than the national ones, and enable us to project what matters, which is the electoral college—tell a very different tale.

There are indeed a number of states that are extremely close. Colorado, Virginia and New Hampshire could easily go either way, and Florida and Iowa are still highly competitive. However, none of these states are likely to have an impact on the outcome of the election.

There are 19 states, totalling 237 electoral votes, which are so safely Democratic that Mr Romney did not bother to contest any of them until the final weeks of the campaign: CA, OR, WA, NM, MN, IL, MI, PA, HI, DE, MD, DC, NJ, NY, VT, CT, RI, MA and ME. Beyond those, Mr Obama appears to have an unassailable lead in Nevada, and the presence of Paul Ryan on the Republican ticket does not seem to have moved the needle in Mr Romney's favour in Wisconsin. Adding those two states to the president's tally, all he needs is Ohio to reach the magic number of 270 electoral votes—and he has consistently led the polls there by over two percentage points. Even if Mr Romney wins all of Colorado, Virginia, New Hampshire, Florida and Iowa, he would still lose the election if he cannot break through Mr Obama's Midwestern "firewall" of Wisconsin and Ohio. The campaign is being fought almost entirely on Mr Romney's turf.

Mr Romney faces such an uphill battle in the electoral college that most quantitative calculations regard the race as anything but too close to call. Nate Silver of the New York Times's FiveThirtyEight blog, the best-known of the forecasters, currently gives Mr Obama an 86% chance to win. Sam Wang of the Princeton Election Consortium puts him at an even more generous 98%.

Bettors broadly concur with this analysis. Although Intrade, the most widely cited prediction market, is fairly kind to Mr Romney and shows him with a 33% chance of victory, tight legal restrictions on deposits to the site have made it very difficult for Americans to wager there. That makes it very thinly traded and unreliable, since bets of just a few thousand dollars can move the market price substantially. The real money laid on the election goes to bookmakers, who uniformly see Mr Obama as an overwhelming favourite. Pinnacle Sports in Las Vegas shows him with a 77.5% likelihood of victory, and Ladbrokes in Britain has him at 81%.

So why do so many reporters continue to peddle the notion of a tight race? One hypothesis is simply a healthy scepticism regarding statistical models, particularly in the wake of the financial crisis. Both David Brooks of the New York Times and John Cassidy of the New Yorker, while openly admiring Mr Silver's work, warn that complex calculations can lead to unjustified certainty.

That may be true, but there's nothing particularly convoluted about these methods. The Occam's Razor approach of a simple average of the most recent polls, listed at RealClearPolitics.com, leads to exactly the same conclusion: that Mr Obama has small but significant leads in enough states to win the election. Some critics have argued that the state polls are biased towards Mr Obama because they overestimate Democratic turnout, but the historical evidence suggests otherwise.

A second interpretation, put forth by Alec MacGillis of the New Republic, is that the media are simply responding to institutional incentives. No one will stay tuned in to a programme saying that the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Suspense sells, and given a choice between a story and no story, journalists will always choose the former, regardless of their political leanings.

This account has undeniable "Freakonomics"-style appeal. However, it relies on a misunderstanding of the competitive dynamics among reporters. Prestige media organisations strive perhaps above all to be counterintuitive, and attract readers or viewers by debunking conventional wisdom. Publications like Slate, the Atlantic or the New Republic are often mocked for their knee-jerk contrarianism. Do writers really think they are going to attract precious eyeballs by jumping on the "it's-coming-down-to-the-wire" bandwagon? Quite the opposite—I'm betting that the "reality check: Obama's ahead" premise of this post will garner far more traffic.

I think two entirely different factors underlie the misleading coverage. The first is a modest dose of innumeracy. Reporters lacking statistical training who see a two-point lead for a candidate are likely to think, "That doesn't sound like much. After all, the margin of error is four points, so it's a statistical tie." Actually, it's not—it just means that particular pollster didn't find a big enough gap to achieve 95% certainty that one candidate is ahead. Once you start talking about dozens of polls taken by independent firms that all point in the same direction, the sample sizes go up and the margin of error shrinks. As Mr Silver recently noted, the consensus of state polls in recent years has been remarkably accurate: it has called 74 of 77 states right, and two of the three misses occurred when the leading candidate had an advantage of one percentage point or less. Mr Obama leads all of Nevada, Wisconsin and Ohio by 2.8 points or more in the RealClearPolitics average. Mr Obama may not be likely to win those states, and therefore the election, by a particularly large margin, but that does not mean he is at substantial risk of losing them.

The other explanation is the old "false balance" problem. Reporters have long relied on the crutch of simply quoting representatives of both sides of an issue to appear impartial to their readers, even if one is much further from the truth than the other. To correct this tendency, the media have increasingly deployed "fact-checking" squads who are willing to call a candidate a liar when they deem it appropriate. This, in turn, has prompted a backlash from politicians and critics who sniff bias in purportedly objective fact-checking.

While not yet chastened, the fact-checkers have done their best to stick to debunking the most easily identifiable fibs. Poll analysis does not meet this standard. The Democrats say Mr Obama's ahead in the key states; the Republicans counter that the national polls are tied, and that the state polls suffer from unsubstantiated assumptions and methodological deficiencies. Who's right? "Who knows?", a reporter on a tight deadline is likely to conclude. "Let's just cite both arguments and say that time will tell."

Time will tell indeed. Mr Romney certainly has a fighting chance, and if he wins, it won't discredit Mr Silver. The proper way to evaluate forecasters is to look at all of their predictions, and see if events they say should happen 80% of the time fail to occur in around 20% of cases. (It would cast doubt on Mr Wang's approach, however, since he sees Mr Obama as a virtual lock for a second term.) For the baseball fans among you, Mr Romney is in roughly the same position as a team starting the bottom of the ninth inning trailing by one run; for the poker players, he's all-in holding pocket kings facing an opponent with pocket aces. But that's nobody's definition of a toss-up. Following Mr Silver's lead, if anyone would like to offer me a wager, the comment thread beckons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2012, 12:52:15 PM
I'm looking forward to tonight. If Romney wins, it will at least be interesting, a case of everything-you-know-is-wrong. If Obama wins, the GOP and its allies are going to throw a hissy-fit of such epic proportions that it should only be viewed with copious amounts of popcorn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 06, 2012, 01:04:36 PM
I'm going to stick my neck out and call it as an Obama victory after 2 hours of polling
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 06, 2012, 01:20:31 PM
(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/682812955.jpg?key=499452&Expires=1352208852&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=COWjMbya1CnX0Ue9gxQu2xaAMt13saOjwE6xP-Uwn5qAOGXCxAIoFkRLn8-ih6-TS0i-wPE5G7mLNV~Smbfo47Hd5N7aIIvlA3czlwBgK0pVCO9zMcglw44cC~QUZEnhRbct7oclubQSt62655qhNhNjisoYGZpHXVSp6Dn0waA_)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on November 06, 2012, 01:25:44 PM
I predict that Vermont will lead the nation by being the first state to declare for Obama, and I'm off to the polling booth right now to do my bit :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 06, 2012, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on November 06, 2012, 01:20:31 PM
(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/682812955.jpg?key=499452&Expires=1352208852&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=COWjMbya1CnX0Ue9gxQu2xaAMt13saOjwE6xP-Uwn5qAOGXCxAIoFkRLn8-ih6-TS0i-wPE5G7mLNV~Smbfo47Hd5N7aIIvlA3czlwBgK0pVCO9zMcglw44cC~QUZEnhRbct7oclubQSt62655qhNhNjisoYGZpHXVSp6Dn0waA_)
is this real???? LOL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2012, 01:40:51 PM
What time can we expect a verdict??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2012, 01:51:22 PM
The major swing states will close their polls by 9pm Eastern Time (2am Irish) but they will probably be labeled too close to call initially.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2012, 01:53:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 06, 2012, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on November 06, 2012, 01:20:31 PM
(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/682812955.jpg?key=499452&Expires=1352208852&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=COWjMbya1CnX0Ue9gxQu2xaAMt13saOjwE6xP-Uwn5qAOGXCxAIoFkRLn8-ih6-TS0i-wPE5G7mLNV~Smbfo47Hd5N7aIIvlA3czlwBgK0pVCO9zMcglw44cC~QUZEnhRbct7oclubQSt62655qhNhNjisoYGZpHXVSp6Dn0waA_)
is this real???? LOL

Alas, no (http://www.snopes.com/politics/romney/money.asp).

(http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/romneymoney2.jpg)

Still, just because it ain't real don't mean it ain't true!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 06, 2012, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 06, 2012, 07:49:30 AM
Too close to call? This guy knows why hes voting for GOP though
(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/rally_shirt_bd425f53d77cd55b739491c8eb8f6145.jpg)

Enjoyed this - http://www.youtube.com/embed/EDxOSjgl5Z4 (http://www.youtube.com/embed/EDxOSjgl5Z4)

Deccy, there are always idiots like that clown in the t shirt, thanks for only showing the republican wans.

Clowns like you ignore the crippling debt, the unemployment numbers, the weak economy despite the spending  and the fact that he has been a horrendous President!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2012, 03:13:29 PM
Quote from: stew on November 06, 2012, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 06, 2012, 07:49:30 AM
Too close to call? This guy knows why hes voting for GOP though
(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/rally_shirt_bd425f53d77cd55b739491c8eb8f6145.jpg)

Enjoyed this - http://www.youtube.com/embed/EDxOSjgl5Z4 (http://www.youtube.com/embed/EDxOSjgl5Z4)

Deccy, there are always idiots like that clown in the t shirt, thanks for only showing the republican wans.

Clowns like you ignore the crippling debt, the unemployment numbers, the weak economy despite the spending  and the fact that he has been a horrendous President!

And with respect stew, you seem to conviently miss the fact that this is a factor which is crippling the majority of countries in the developed world due to the world wide economic instability, but hey why factor that into an argument when you can have a Barack barrack!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 06, 2012, 03:13:52 PM
Quote from: Premier Emperor on November 06, 2012, 08:10:54 AM
Obama has it in the bag.
Any pundit who claims it's too close to call should be sacked.
He is ahead in more than enough swing states.
There aren't enough backward, redneck states to get Romney into  the White House.

Congratulations, you are now calling for the heads of practically every pundit in the country as both sides are saying it is close.

Emperor, if you think only redneck, backward people vote for Romney you sir, are an idiot, and a lazy one at that.

The backward, redneck people of Wall Street are all about voting Romney, why? because they realize that the prex has no idea what the fcuk he is doing with the economy and Romney does, that's why!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 06, 2012, 03:19:43 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2012, 03:13:29 PM
Quote from: stew on November 06, 2012, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 06, 2012, 07:49:30 AM
Too close to call? This guy knows why hes voting for GOP though
(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/rally_shirt_bd425f53d77cd55b739491c8eb8f6145.jpg)

Enjoyed this - http://www.youtube.com/embed/EDxOSjgl5Z4 (http://www.youtube.com/embed/EDxOSjgl5Z4)

Deccy, there are always idiots like that clown in the t shirt, thanks for only showing the republican wans.

Clowns like you ignore the crippling debt, the unemployment numbers, the weak economy despite the spending  and the fact that he has been a horrendous President!

And with respect stew, you seem to conviently miss the fact that this is a factor which is crippling the majority of countries in the developed world due to the world wide economic instability, but hey why factor that into an argument when you can have a Barack barrack!

I am talking about the US economy, this man has added 6 trillion in new debt, unemployment is 7.9%, 46 million people are on food stamps, a far higher number than when he took office, he made promises on all of these issues and in every instance he failed.

How anybody can make the argument BO has done a good job is beyond me, he has been dire and i hope the electorate send a message tonight and vote this amadan out of office!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2012, 03:24:45 PM
stew, that is all refelective of what is happenong world wide, if you somehow think that the States works in a world wide vacuum then that is fine but it is simply suffering just the same as nearly every country in the world. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 06, 2012, 03:48:48 PM
QuoteClowns like you ignore the crippling debt, the unemployment numbers, the weak economy despite the spending  and the fact that he has been a horrendous President!

If I was American I'd have problems with Obama's record on a lot of stuff but you call me a clown whilst willfully ignoring the well documented lies that Romney has told and also the fact that any sane person can see that the GOP inexorable drift to the loony side has pushed America to the brink of complete and utter breakdown.
Every available statistic has shown that the deepening polarisation in American politics is linked to the increasing inequality and the fact that the top 1% now effectively control 20% of the income. As the wealth gap increased, and voters became more polarised, the Republicans moved away from policies aimed at redistributing wealth and focused instead on cutting taxes and slashing regulation. 

I think it's a poor choice myself but on any objective analysis of the figures and in the context of the global depression I think Obama would be 10 times better than Mitt. Most of the world tends to agree with this if the MSN poll is anything to go by - except China interestingly though they have more invested in Romney than any other country  given his track record in sending American jobs there ;)

(http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/39/E3F96BA4C59624C9686D45621EAD.jpg)

Anyway either way we can't really lecture anyone on electing idiots now can we?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2012, 04:01:31 PM
(http://rlv.zcache.com/hanging_chad_tees-r42a1303880fe40829f3602a2268d9696_f0cgt_512.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2012, 04:16:52 PM
There's a simple argument for Barack Obama - the alternative would have been far worse. Can you imagine an America where there was no auto bailout, no FEMA, tax cuts for the very wealthy, slashing of welfare roles in a time of rampant unemployment, the gutting of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, expansion of policies permitting torture and war with Iran? I have no problem imagining all those things under a Romney presidency, and that's before you consider the Kulturkampf against women, Muslims, blacks, gays and Latinos. I like America, and it's because I want to carry on liking it that I'm rooting for Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: southdown on November 06, 2012, 04:22:10 PM
How does MR plan to turn around the economy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2012, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 06, 2012, 03:19:43 PM
I am talking about the US economy, this man has added 6 trillion in new debt, unemployment is 7.9%, 46 million people are on food stamps, a far higher number than when he took office, he made promises on all of these issues and in every instance he failed.

The budget deficit in Bush's last budget was about 1.2 trillion and had risen rapidly. For FY 2013 the deficit is about 0.9 trillion and falling.

When Obama took office unemployment was 7.8% and rising rapidly, it ended up at 10%. It is now 7.9% and falling.

The major increase in food stamps is mostly due to the expansion of the program from the 2008 Farm Bill which Bush signed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food,_Conservation,_and_Energy_Act_of_2008
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 06, 2012, 07:06:15 PM
I know it's early but are there exit polls yet? I ask because Romney's price is shortening on Betfair. 5.6 this afternoon, 4.1 now. Obama out from 1.2 to 1.32.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2012, 07:13:23 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2012, 07:06:15 PM
I know it's early but are there exit polls yet? I ask because Romney's price is shortening on Betfair. 5.6 this afternoon, 4.1 now. Obama out from 1.2 to 1.32.

Certainly no official exit polls but the campaigns would be conducting their own and also monitoring turnout, so if the turnout is better in Republican areas or the early numbers are favouring Romney then that information would probably leak to someone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2012, 07:17:50 PM
In previous elections Drudge has leaked early exit poll numbers but they proved to be fairly random.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 06, 2012, 07:19:15 PM
Seen a good one today:
1.4 Billion Asian-americans are awkwardly celebrating ERECTION DAY  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 06, 2012, 08:04:55 PM
Quote from: stew on November 06, 2012, 03:13:52 PM
Quote from: Premier Emperor on November 06, 2012, 08:10:54 AM
Obama has it in the bag.
Any pundit who claims it's too close to call should be sacked.
He is ahead in more than enough swing states.
There aren't enough backward, redneck states to get Romney into  the White House.

Congratulations, you are now calling for the heads of practically every pundit in the country as both sides are saying it is close.

Emperor, if you think only redneck, backward people vote for Romney you sir, are an idiot, and a lazy one at that.

The backward, redneck people of Wall Street are all about voting Romney, why? because they realize that the prex has no idea what the fcuk he is doing with the economy and Romney does, that's why!

Stew, not sure if you have noticed, but Wall Street has been doing a less than awesome job of late.

I'm calling this one for Obama BTW it's done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 06, 2012, 08:10:34 PM
I think Obama's in trouble. The Redskins lost on Sunday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskins_Rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskins_Rule)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 06, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2012, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 06, 2012, 03:19:43 PM
I am talking about the US economy, this man has added 6 trillion in new debt, unemployment is 7.9%, 46 million people are on food stamps, a far higher number than when he took office, he made promises on all of these issues and in every instance he failed.

The budget deficit in Bush's last budget was about 1.2 trillion and had risen rapidly. For FY 2013 the deficit is about 0.9 trillion and falling.

When Obama took office unemployment was 7.8% and rising rapidmly, it ended up at 10%. It is now 7.9% and falling.

The major increase in food stamps is mostly due to the expansion of the program from the 2008 Farm Bill which Bush signed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food,_Conservation,_and_Energy_Act_of_2008
the biggest contributor to the growth of the deficit since 09 has been the bush tax cuts but you won't hear that on fox.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2012, 09:04:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
the biggest contributor to the growth of the deficit since 09 has been the bush tax cuts but you won't hear that on fox.

What you'll hear on Fox is that Bush's policies magically stopped taking effect as soon as he left office, and the mess he made became the fault of the black guy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2012, 10:54:31 PM
Nice to see the voting booths working

(http://i.imgur.com/iIVEX.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 06, 2012, 11:02:08 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2012, 03:24:45 PM
stew, that is all refelective of what is happenong world wide, if you somehow think that the States works in a world wide vacuum then that is fine but it is simply suffering just the same as nearly every country in the world.

So BO should be given a pass for the nightmare of his Presidency because " it is suffering just the same as nearly country in the world"

I don't think so, he failed on almost every promise he made and he is a charlatan in my opinion!

The American economy used to shape the economy of the rest of the world, not every country is suffering right now, that is why I am speaking specifically about America.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 06, 2012, 11:06:18 PM
Is the economy going to f**k Obama? First exit about 12.15 apparently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 06, 2012, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2012, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 06, 2012, 03:19:43 PM
I am talking about the US economy, this man has added 6 trillion in new debt, unemployment is 7.9%, 46 million people are on food stamps, a far higher number than when he took office, he made promises on all of these issues and in every instance he failed.

The budget deficit in Bush's last budget was about 1.2 trillion and had risen rapidly. For FY 2013 the deficit is about 0.9 trillion and falling.


Here clone, BO added 6 trillion to the deficit and he cost the country jobs, unemployment is higher now that it was when he took office!

When Obama took office unemployment was 7.8% and rising rapidly, it ended up at 10%. It is now 7.9% and falling.

Fecking lies, it is a tenth of a % higher!

The major increase in food stamps is mostly due to the expansion of the program from the 2008 Farm Bill which Bush signed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food,_Conservation,_and_Energy_Act_of_2008
the biggest contributor to the growth of the deficit since 09 has been the bush tax cuts but you won't hear that on fox.

You quote wiki to make your argument on this????

Socialism destroys an economy and this lad is going to go completely feck this country for decades to come, America needs change and it needs it right now, he failed no matter what way you clones cut it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2012, 11:21:22 PM
I think we still see Obama there in the morning, couldn't do much with America economy, dont think anyone could. I wonder do Americans remember that Clinton left America in very good economic terms, hand over to republicans, fire in an odd war or two, and the economy went down the pan. Its abit like over here, Enda gets it in the neck but the reality is no matter who is in power we fucked, as we have over extended ourselves past 10yrs and now the Huns have us by the balls!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2012, 11:40:09 PM
Quote from: stew on November 06, 2012, 11:12:10 PM
Socialism destroys an economy

No, it doesn't. The developed countries that have best weathered the economic storms of recent times are those with high levels of government spending. What America needs is more socialism, not the robber baron capitalism typified by Bain Capital.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Celt_Man on November 07, 2012, 02:06:49 AM
Our boy is marginally ahead in Florida - think the commonly held view is that if he wins there, Mitt has to win everything else....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 07, 2012, 02:58:13 AM
It's not over yet but it is looking really difficult for Romney to win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 07, 2012, 04:14:06 AM
4 more years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on November 07, 2012, 04:16:43 AM
Hillary in 2016 :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2012, 04:17:52 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/kt00k.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 07, 2012, 04:32:59 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 06, 2012, 01:04:36 PM
I'm going to stick my neck out and call it as an Obama victory after 2 hours of polling

Easy money. 5-1 in a two horse race. Be interesting to see just how much the republican congress blocks the president and the senate. Or whether we're in for four more years of the same shit and another he said she said finger pointing session.
Or maybe for once they can get their act together and bang out some compromise policy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 07, 2012, 06:51:32 AM
Stew:
Can I ask you a question.
Where you raised in Longstone on the loughgall road in Armagh City?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 07, 2012, 06:55:30 AM
Quote from: omochain on November 07, 2012, 06:51:32 AM
Stew:
Can I ask you a question.
Where you raised in Longstone on the loughgall road in Armagh City?


PM me who you are and I will give you an answer!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 07, 2012, 07:07:56 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2012, 11:21:22 PM
I think we still see Obama there in the morning, couldn't do much with America economy, dont think anyone could. I wonder do Americans remember that Clinton left America in very good economic terms, hand over to republicans, fire in an odd war or two, and the economy went down the pan. Its abit like over here, Enda gets it in the neck but the reality is no matter who is in power we fucked, as we over st-recthing ourselves past 10yrs and now the Huns have us by the balls!!

I hope Mr Obama grabs the opportunity America has given him and leads the country with excellence and greatness.

I hope the Republicans have the integrity to work with the president, not against him and that compromise can be reached and solutions found to fix the ills that pervade the American economy.

Good luck president Obama, I wish you well and hope that you can reach your stated objectives, this is the greatest of countries and I hope you achieve all of your stated goals and all you aspire to achieve for the US of A.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 07, 2012, 07:43:57 AM
Well said.. For all our sakes I hope your wishes come to pass :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2012, 08:07:04 AM
Joe Biden 2016
or
Gavin Newsom 2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 08:20:09 AM
This is quite good apart maybe from 9


10 Reasons Why Romney Will Lose lost

http://www.progressive.org/10-reasons-why-romney-will-lose

10 Reasons Why Romney Will Lose lost
By Matthew Rothschild, November 5, 2012

1. He had the worst September since the Chicago Cubs in '69
a. His screw up in England
b. The controversy over releasing his tax returns
c. His campaign adviser saying "Etch a Sketch"
d. And that video with him dismissing 47% of the electorate in the most derogatory way.

2. The Neanderthal Republicans on Rape

a. Todd Akin
b. Richard Mourdock
c. Paul Ryan
Not many women in America—or men, for that matter—are so coldhearted that they would force women to bear the offspring of the rapist who impregnated them.


3. The slowly improving economy
Oh, how the Republicans wished it had gotten worse, not better.

4. Romney's constantly changing colors

a. On FEMA
b. On the auto bailout
c. On contraceptions
d. On Afghanistan

To say that Romney is a chameleon is to insult chameleons everywhere.


5. Romney's flagrant lying

a. The Jeep jobs to China
b. On Obama and the deficit
c. On the Affordable Care Act allegedly costing 20 million people to lose their health insurance.

6. Romney, the vulture capitalist

a. See Bainport
b. See Obama commercial with worker laid off by Romney

7. Opposing the auto bailout

This killed him in Ohio and Michigan.


8. Minority Support for Obama

a. African Americans
b. Latinos
c. Gays and lesbians

9. Obama's Progressive Rhetoric

As he put it in Madison, "The folks at the very top: They don't need another champion in Washington."

10. SandyObama demonstrated leadership, and the images of him with Chris Christie were worth millions of dollars in paid advertisements.

Christie's praise of Obama was an "Et tu, Brutus" moment for Romney.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 07, 2012, 08:26:43 AM
Eamonn
Gavin Newsom   ... You have been living too close to San Francisco for too long.
Any man who could turn a woman to the FOXside is seriously handicaped from the get go.
BTW Great job promoting the Stanford Hurling team
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 09:07:55 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2012, 08:07:04 AM
Joe Biden 2016
or
Gavin Newsom 2020
I think guessing runners in 2016 is like guessing who'll be footballer of the year in 2016.
Back in 2008 everyone thought Palin would be the candidate this year.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nifan on November 07, 2012, 09:10:22 AM
Donald Trump doing his thing again.
On twitter "We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AQMP on November 07, 2012, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 08:20:09 AM
This is quite good apart maybe from 9

Christie's praise of Obama was an "Et tu, Brutus" moment for Romney.

FFS "Et tu, Brute", as any fule kno, the vocative case of Brutus.

Congrats to Obama. :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on November 07, 2012, 09:18:32 AM
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/11/trump-is-election-nights-most-unhinged-goper.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Canalman on November 07, 2012, 09:21:16 AM
Have to say I liked Romney and thought he conducted himself well. Happy with a small "h "to see Obama win but not too pushed either way.

Reckon that Ryan is a big winner today and will give 2016 a right shot.

Whatever happened to Jeb Bush (sic)  recently? Almost sure he speaks Spanish and might be the guy to reverse  back  from the demographic cul de sac the Republicans seem to have driven up.

Any US posters here think he is in with a shot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens abu on November 07, 2012, 09:30:02 AM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2012, 07:07:56 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2012, 11:21:22 PM
I think we still see Obama there in the morning, couldn't do much with America economy, dont think anyone could. I wonder do Americans remember that Clinton left America in very good economic terms, hand over to republicans, fire in an odd war or two, and the economy went down the pan. Its abit like over here, Enda gets it in the neck but the reality is no matter who is in power we fucked, as we over st-recthing ourselves past 10yrs and now the Huns have us by the balls!!

I hope Mr Obama grabs the opportunity America has given him and leads the country with excellence and greatness.

I hope the Republicans have the integrity to work with the president, not against him and that compromise can be reached and solutions found to fix the ills that pervade the American economy.

Good luck president Obama, I wish you well and hope that you can reach your stated objectives, this is the greatest of countries and I hope you achieve all of your stated goals and all you aspire to achieve for the US of A.

At killing others :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 07, 2012, 09:39:05 AM
Kudos to the people of Wisconsin on electing Tammy Baldwin. The first openly gay person to be returned to the Senate I believe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Shamrock Shore on November 07, 2012, 09:41:29 AM
Donald Trump is a complete and utter bell end.

So 2016?

Paul Ryan v Billary?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 09:49:12 AM
That Romney shite about the US being the greatest nation ever is pure plámás.
Genghis Khan never lost in Afghanistan. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2012, 10:46:09 AM
Quote from: nifan on November 07, 2012, 09:10:22 AM
Donald Trump doing his thing again.
On twitter "We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty"

What a dick.

Some lad on Twitter posted up "I'll give you $5million if you can prove you're not a ****!"

I thought it was a good one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 11:04:37 AM
A good night, extremism has taken a beating - I'd have wanted Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock to lose before Mitt Romney. Will the Republicans learn the lesson that you can't rely on the votes of white men to win you elections? We'll see. However, what has to happen is an end to the worthless pundits who predicted landslide victories for Romney. George Will predicted that Romney would win Minnesota. This is a a state that voted for Walter Mondale, for chrissake! Peggy Noonan dismissed the polls on the basis that she saw more Romney/Ryan signs outside houses. Karl Rove spat his dummy out when Fox called Ohio for Obama. These clowns bleat about the 47% who take without wanting to give, yet they stay in their jobs despite being wrong all the time. There must be an end to incompetence in the press corps. I won't hold my breath though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ulick on November 07, 2012, 11:44:10 AM
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/68062_10152227623780705_907185474_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 11:04:37 AM
A good night, extremism has taken a beating - I'd have wanted Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock to lose before Mitt Romney. Will the Republicans learn the lesson that you can't rely on the votes of white men to win you elections? We'll see. However, what has to happen is an end to the worthless pundits who predicted landslide victories for Romney. George Will predicted that Romney would win Minnesota. This is a a state that voted for Walter Mondale, for chrissake! Peggy Noonan dismissed the polls on the basis that she saw more Romney/Ryan signs outside houses. Karl Rove spat his dummy out when Fox called Ohio for Obama. These clowns bleat about the 47% who take without wanting to give, yet they stay in their jobs despite being wrong all the time. There must be an end to incompetence in the press corps. I won't hold my breath though.
Poor Sheldon Adelson. He spent over $100 million and got nothing.
The Republicans have some questions to answer. One win in the popular vote since 1988. It's not like they didn't fish around for candidates either. Rick Perry, Bachmann, Newt- there was nobody better than Romney.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 07, 2012, 01:14:55 PM
Fox News was funny this morning, in a sad kind of way. I only watched about 10 minutes of it while getting dressed, but the difference in their tone and language compared to say, CNN, was gas. They were basically like a load of lads in a pub saying the ref rode them.

"Obama got lucky because of Hurricane Sandy, it made him look presidential, but I'm not sure how that will last because we know there are people freezing cold, still, and we've seen them. Some of them are hungry,"....pregnant pause..... "and we pray for them."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mont on November 07, 2012, 01:21:03 PM
was only going to b 1 outcome. Romney was a poor selection to run.
Does this mean Hilary will be closer in 2016?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magpie seanie on November 07, 2012, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 07, 2012, 01:14:55 PM
Fox News was funny this morning, in a sad kind of way. I only watched about 10 minutes of it while getting dressed, but the difference in their tone and language compared to say, CNN, was gas. They were basically like a load of lads in a pub saying the ref rode them.

"Obama got lucky because of Hurricane Sandy, it made him look presidential, but I'm not sure how that will last because we know there are people freezing cold, still, and we've seen them. Some of them are hungry,"....pregnant pause..... "and we pray for them."

I get the most pleasure out of watching those clowns. Last night they were on about one state, can't remember which, which they accpeted Obama was in with a chance of winning. This woman said that it was traditionally republican and for Romeny to win then Obama shouldn't be in contention there. Cue awkward silence.........Karl Rove was hilarious inventing stats to try and convince himself that Romeny was winning. I knocked it off last night when I saw that cos I knew it was in the bag. Thank God.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 01:52:35 PM
The Republicans were in civil war mode during the nomination process. Newt and Perry landed some low blows on Romney.
He was the best of a very bad lot .

Obama isn't great TBH even if he's an improvement on Romney. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 07, 2012, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Mont on November 07, 2012, 01:21:03 PM
was only going to b 1 outcome. Romney was a poor selection to run.
Does this mean Hilary will be closer in 2016?
If they put forward hilary in 2016 she will lose. Chris Christie is a shoe in for the Republicans as a candidate in 2016
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 07, 2012, 02:04:21 PM
He has one BIG advantage over a lightweight like Romney.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2012, 02:10:58 PM
I could see Martin O'Malley (Governor of Maryland) running in 2016 for the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 02:12:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2012, 01:58:35 PM
If they put forward hilary in 2016 she will lose. Chris Christie is a shoe in for the Republicans as a candidate in 2016

After his treachery over Sandy, something that I've seen a Republican label as the main reason Romney lost? I doubt it. Marco Rubio has to be the early favourite. Token Hispanic dude and all that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 07, 2012, 02:18:35 PM
Romney wasn't the best of a bad lot. He was indicative of the driven far right and as such the only candidate they could pick. The GOP needs to come back to centre, if and when it does, if the economy is still in the shit- we will see a GOP win. When it continues to vote along partisan lines, uber cultural conservatism and economics for the wealthy it will not get in. The white conservative male vote is no longer enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 07, 2012, 03:19:56 PM
Tammy Baldwin is a looney left equivalent of a tea partier, I am disgusted she got elected but at least history was made her being a lesbian an all.

Tommy Thompson lost because he took the money and ran, lost touch with the people of the state, came back and lost to this idiot, thanks very much Tommy  :'(

Puck is right, the republicans need to move to the center and to hell with the far right wing nuts, what are they going to do? vote for the Democrats? Not hardly!

I play in a pool league on Tuesdays and one of my team-mates was creaming himself because "Obama is going to give me money for four more years" I would like to say I was shocked but it has become what I expect of some Democrats, my response to him was why the fcuk should the Government give him handouts and why should people that actually work for a living carry his lazy ass! I find his stance on this very disturbing, it was all me, me, me and he didnt seem to f**king care about anyone else!

The republicans simply have to work with Obama now, enough posturing between the two sides, I hope that today they can sit down and do their duty to the citizenry and start working on getting people back to work, get the troops back home and out of the middle east, and cutting the deficit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 03:37:42 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 07, 2012, 02:18:35 PM
Romney wasn't the best of a bad lot. He was indicative of the driven far right and as such the only candidate they could pick. The GOP needs to come back to centre, if and when it does, if the economy is still in the shit- we will see a GOP win. When it continues to vote along partisan lines, uber cultural conservatism and economics for the wealthy it will not get in. The white conservative male vote is no longer enough.

He was the only one anywhere near "moderate" left this time last year,  I thought.
Who would have done better ?

The Republicans need a wider base. Plutocracy is great but they need to get the votes of the ordinary people
to have a chance at the presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 03:39:01 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2012, 03:19:56 PM
I play in a pool league on Tuesdays and one of my team-mates was creaming himself because "Obama is going to give me money for four more years"

And you took him at his word. Did you hear they've removed 'gullible' from the dictionary?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 07, 2012, 03:44:22 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 03:39:01 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2012, 03:19:56 PM
I play in a pool league on Tuesdays and one of my team-mates was creaming himself because "Obama is going to give me money for four more years"

And you took him at his word. Did you hear they've removed 'gullible' from the dictionary?

I have known him for years you numpty, he fecking means it, 16 years to be exact, how long have you known him???

There is an eejit from louth that lives in town, he is cut from the same cloth, hasnt worked in a year, the last two jobs he got I got them for him and he sits on his hole all day and gets money from the Government, I asked him what was going on and he told me that why should he work when he can live on what the Govt gives him? he has $400.00 in his 401K and he is over 50 years old, who the fack do you think he votes for?????

Dont lecture me on being gullible, you dont know enough to know fcuk all!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2012, 03:44:22 PM
I have known him for years you numpty, he fecking means it, 16 years to be exact, how long have you known him???

There is an eejit from louth that lives in town, he is cut from the same cloth, hasnt worked in a year, the last two jobs he got I got them for him and he sits on his hole all day and gets money from the Government, I asked him what was going on and he told me that why should he work when he can live on what the Govt gives him? he has $400.00 in his 401K and he is over 50 years old, who the fack do you think he votes for?????

Dont lecture me on being gullible, you dont know enough to know fcuk all!

I don't know fcuk all? Why would his money be dependent on Obama and/or the Democrats being in power? If he's been at it for 16 years then he got it through all the Republican-dominated years as well. And if a man is surviving on his 401(k) of $400 (!) then good luck to him, it's his money (http://guides.wsj.com/personal-finance/retirement/what-is-a-401k/)!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2012, 03:44:22 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 03:39:01 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2012, 03:19:56 PM
I play in a pool league on Tuesdays and one of my team-mates was creaming himself because "Obama is going to give me money for four more years"

And you took him at his word. Did you hear they've removed 'gullible' from the dictionary?

I have known him for years you numpty, he fecking means it, 16 years to be exact, how long have you known him???

There is an eejit from louth that lives in town, he is cut from the same cloth, hasnt worked in a year, the last two jobs he got I got them for him and he sits on his hole all day and gets money from the Government, I asked him what was going on and he told me that why should he work when he can live on what the Govt gives him? he has $400.00 in his 401K and he is over 50 years old, who the fack do you think he votes for?????

Dont lecture me on being gullible, you dont know enough to know fcuk all!
Stew

How much would someone unemployed in your neck of the woods get in food stamps per month ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 03:51:41 PM
Stew

How much would someone unemployed in your neck of the woods get in food stamps per month ?

No doubt enough to be able to drive a Cadillac.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 03:51:41 PM
Stew

How much would someone unemployed in your neck of the woods get in food stamps per month ?

No doubt enough to be able to drive a Cadillac.
Presumably it would run on ethanol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
The map of who won what state



http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/presidential-election/results/maps/2012-us-election-results-map.jpg

looks very like a map from the 1860s




http://www.learner.org/biographyofamerica/prog10/maps/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 07, 2012, 04:34:03 PM
That's interesting alright. Not much changes except time. I'm sure the states in question would be horrified at the implication.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2012, 04:44:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
The map of who won what state



http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/presidential-election/results/maps/2012-us-election-results-map.jpg



That can't be right, says Obama won Mississippi. Politico says Romney won that state by 55% to Obama's 43%.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 07, 2012, 04:47:42 PM
Did Obama not win Virginia? He was certainly on track to do so. And yes, Romney won Mississippi.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 07, 2012, 05:03:37 PM
I've being thinking about it, and while I instinctively can't stand tales of welfare queens and the need to draw broad social implications from anecdotes, I don't have any reason to doubt stew's account. The nuances of the American welfare system are probably a mystery to most Americans, and I certainly don't have a chance. So I'd like to apologize to stew for my snide comments. It won't happen again. Well, not until the next time I lose my rag anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ludermor on November 07, 2012, 05:46:28 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 07, 2012, 09:30:02 AM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2012, 07:07:56 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2012, 11:21:22 PM
I think we still see Obama there in the morning, couldn't do much with America economy, dont think anyone could. I wonder do Americans remember that Clinton left America in very good economic terms, hand over to republicans, fire in an odd war or two, and the economy went down the pan. Its abit like over here, Enda gets it in the neck but the reality is no matter who is in power we fucked, as we over st-recthing ourselves past 10yrs and now the Huns have us by the balls!!

I hope Mr Obama grabs the opportunity America has given him and leads the country with excellence and greatness.

I hope the Republicans have the integrity to work with the president, not against him and that compromise can be reached and solutions found to fix the ills that pervade the American economy.

Good luck president Obama, I wish you well and hope that you can reach your stated objectives, this is the greatest of countries and I hope you achieve all of your stated goals and all you aspire to achieve for the US of A.

At killing others :o
Didnt think you would have a problem with that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on November 07, 2012, 06:30:37 PM
So.......this fiscal cliff thingy.

What's going to be done?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 06:40:31 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 07, 2012, 06:30:37 PM
So.......this fiscal cliff thingy.

What's going to be done?
at 1 minute to midnight the Republicans will give in.
S&P will put the US on negative watch
the world will wonder WTF is going on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 07, 2012, 06:45:09 PM
Anyone been listening to The Last Word this week? Matt Cooper has been on all week and has had some excellent guests. Consensus today was that in order to re-shape and move fully into the 21st century, the Republicans have to ditch the extreme right, ditch the evangelists and build around people like Rubio and Bobby Jindal to appeal to non-traditional Republican voters? Will they be able to go for that much of a shift in four year?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2012, 09:05:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2012, 03:37:42 PM

He was the only one anywhere near "moderate" left this time last year,  I thought.
Who would have done better ?

Bloomberg? Guliani?* Huntsman?*

*I know they didn't survive the primaries, but that's because the received wisdom was that you had to tack to the right in the primaries to please the mad hatters, a strategy that is now thoroughly discredited.  If the party ditches the extremists then people like this might have a better chance next time around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2012, 09:09:20 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 07, 2012, 06:45:09 PM
Anyone been listening to The Last Word this week? Matt Cooper has been on all week and has had some excellent guests. Consensus today was that in order to re-shape and move fully into the 21st century, the Republicans have to ditch the extreme right, ditch the evangelists and build around people like Rubio and Bobby Jindal to appeal to non-traditional Republican voters? Will they be able to go for that much of a shift in four year?

Don't know much about Rubio but I don't see what Jindal has going for him other than being non-white.  As Herman Cain showed, it's not enough to be black, you also have to be able to show that you're not as thick as two short planks.  Jindal strikes me as another of the anti-science "ignorance is wisdom, education is snobbery" crowd.

You never know.  Maybe someone will emerge in the next year or two who'll pull the GOP back to the centre.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 07, 2012, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2012, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Mont on November 07, 2012, 01:21:03 PM
was only going to b 1 outcome. Romney was a poor selection to run.
Does this mean Hilary will be closer in 2016?
If they put forward hilary in 2016 she will lose. Chris Christie is a shoe in for the Republicans as a candidate in 2016

With Bill in her corner why would you think that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on November 07, 2012, 11:14:26 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qk11

American "exceptionalism" discussed on BBC's Moral Maze.

It's an interesting subject although I found this debate a deeply flawed because those debating couldn't seem to agree on what was being debated, ideals or policy. It gets stuck in the wrong gear before it gets going, as they can't decide if criticism of American government policies is an attack on "Western values".  Though some interesting points are made those debating probably agree with each other, unfortunately they couldn't agree on what actually was being debated.

When discussing the morality of the war on terror, it really seems to depend on which narrative you start out from suits your political instincts. You can look at these wars from the angle of self defense, justice and "freedom". Or look at it from a standpoint of the protection economic and other "interests".

Anyway it's a debate that has to'd and fro'd for the best part of a decade now. Perhaps this is the first real glorious triumph of the crusade of moral relativism. Where there are no winners and the truth like leaves in the autumn breeze.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on November 08, 2012, 09:36:00 AM
This election was won on the Hispanic/ Black & female vote, how are the Republicans ever going to be able to attract that part of the electorate.

The right wing evangelical mainly white male vote will no longer win elections. So what do they do?

There was a lady on who had worked for the Republican party and was still a member and she said they have to lose the racists from within the party if they stand any chance of bouncing back. That is one of their own calling themselves racist, hard to see where they go.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: boojangles on November 08, 2012, 09:45:30 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 08, 2012, 09:36:00 AM
This election was won on the Hispanic/ Black & female vote, how are the Republicans ever going to be able to attract that part of the electorate.

The right wing evangelical mainly white male vote will no longer win elections. So what do they do?

There was a lady on who had worked for the Republican party and was still a member and she said they have to lose the racists from within the party if they stand any chance of bouncing back. That is one of their own calling themselves racist, hard to see where they go.

Sure most of the KKK called themselves Democrats. How things change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 08, 2012, 10:28:09 AM
I'm not so optimistic that the defeat of Romney will lead to righteous soul searching among the Republicans and a conclusion that their racist, xenophobic, looney-religious leanings are an electoral liability. 

Aren't they just as likely to conclude that this policy platform got damn near 50% of the popular vote for a very weak candidate against a man who was guaranteed practically 100% of the black vote and the huge majority of the young vote – a circumstance they are unlikely to encounter next time?

And when you look at the red-and-white map, doesn't this platform actually reflect accurately the point of view of a near majority of Americans?

Be afraid. A little afraid.

[Edit - sorry that should read "red-and-blue" map]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 08, 2012, 10:46:38 AM
Interesting stats and graphics in this article -http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324073504578105360833569352.html#project%3DCTYRESULTS2012b%26articleTabs%3Darticle (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324073504578105360833569352.html#project%3DCTYRESULTS2012b%26articleTabs%3Darticle)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: southdown on November 08, 2012, 11:30:03 AM
If Obama was white, would Romney have won?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 08, 2012, 11:35:25 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 08, 2012, 10:46:38 AM
Interesting stats and graphics in this article -http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324073504578105360833569352.html#project%3DCTYRESULTS2012b%26articleTabs%3Darticle (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324073504578105360833569352.html#project%3DCTYRESULTS2012b%26articleTabs%3Darticle)

Read the comments section. It is a scary place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 08, 2012, 01:03:12 PM
To perhaps take this thread in a new direction, how is the upcoming Puerto Rican application for Statehood likely to play out through Congress? Obama has previously said he would support it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 08, 2012, 01:33:16 PM
Quote from: Canalman on November 07, 2012, 09:21:16 AM

Whatever happened to Jeb Bush (sic)  recently? Almost sure he speaks Spanish and might be the guy to reverse  back  from the demographic cul de sac the Republicans seem to have driven up.

Any US posters here think he is in with a shot.

Doesn't have a shot at the minute, but as its politics something could happen to change that, but it would need to be drastic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2012, 01:56:48 PM
(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/403535_431216586941123_44570894_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on November 08, 2012, 02:21:19 PM
Whatever happened to Jeb Bush (sic)  recently? Almost sure he speaks Spanish and might be the guy to reverse  back  from the demographic cul de sac the Republicans seem to have driven up.

Any US posters here think he is in with a shot.

I cannot see it happen - The Republicans will remember his dad's broken "no new taxes promise" and the exit polls from this week show that 52 % of the electorate hold George "W" responsible for the economic problems
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 08, 2012, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2012, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2012, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Mont on November 07, 2012, 01:21:03 PM
was only going to b 1 outcome. Romney was a poor selection to run.
Does this mean Hilary will be closer in 2016?
If they put forward hilary in 2016 she will lose. Chris Christie is a shoe in for the Republicans as a candidate in 2016

With Bill in her corner why would you think that?
she isn't well liked on the ground from what I hear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on November 08, 2012, 02:37:16 PM
was only going to b 1 outcome. Romney was a poor selection to run.
Does this mean Hilary will be closer in 2016?
If they put forward hilary in 2016 she will lose. Chris Christie is a shoe in for the Republicans as a candidate in 2016

With Bill in her corner why would you think that?
she isn't well liked on the ground from what I hear.

She'll light up the Democrats something wicked and be a lighting rod for the conservative anger - She'll do well with capturing the non-Democratic female vote, and her form so far as Secretary of State will win over a lot of Independentents (most of whom are past registered Republicans unhappy with the right-wing leaning of the current Republican Party)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 08, 2012, 03:05:13 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 08, 2012, 01:33:16 PM
Quote from: Canalman on November 07, 2012, 09:21:16 AM

Whatever happened to Jeb Bush (sic)  recently? Almost sure he speaks Spanish and might be the guy to reverse  back  from the demographic cul de sac the Republicans seem to have driven up.

Any US posters here think he is in with a shot.

Doesn't have a shot at the minute, but as its politics something could happen to change that, but it would need to be drastic

Jeb is more of a moderate than George W, he was a good Governor here in Florida during his term. His immediate family have some issues though, his wife was caught trying to avoid paying taxes on clothes she was bringing in form overseas plus one of his children has drug issues, not exactly First Family material in the U.S. As Republicans go these days he is a moderate and has come out and criticized the Tea Party long before it was fashionable. When you compare him to GW he speaks well and seems a lot more presidential but having the Bush name is an anchor these days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 08, 2012, 03:29:06 PM
Yes, with cans!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2012, 05:09:36 PM
It looks like the many faces of US politics include more than a few Hispanic features. Which is very sad for the white conservatives who vote Republican.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ardal on November 08, 2012, 05:32:05 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on November 08, 2012, 02:37:16 PM
was only going to b 1 outcome. Romney was a poor selection to run.
Does this mean Hilary will be closer in 2016?
If they put forward hilary in 2016 she will lose. Chris Christie is a shoe in for the Republicans as a candidate in 2016

With Bill in her corner why would you think that?
she isn't well liked on the ground from what I hear.

She'll light up the Democrats something wicked and be a lighting rod for the conservative anger - She'll do well with capturing the non-Democratic female vote, and her form so far as Secretary of State will win over a lot of Independentents (most of whom are past registered Republicans unhappy with the right-wing leaning of the current Republican Party)

Come straight out and say it as it is. Maybe I'm stupid, but are you saying Hilary will do it or not?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2012, 05:46:45 PM
Gawd Jon Stewart was on fire last night!  (He's been on fire the whole way through this campaign IMNSHO.)  It was like watching years of denial on Fox News melting away in the face of the relentless onslaught of reality.  Even when all the other networks were calling Ohio for Obama at 76% reporting they still had Karl Rove claiming that Romney was going to pull a last-minute surprise and win it against impossible odds.

It's truly fascinating to see insights into the minds of these people, the way they reject reality in favour of a world view that they feel more comfortable with no matter how false it is.  And when reality finally hit them after all these years, the looks on their faces were just priceless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 08, 2012, 05:49:55 PM
I watched The O'Reilly factor last night when I got home, couldnt help it if truth be told.

Bill had independent contributors on and they all repeated that the GOP needed to re-invent itself in the aftermath of this election. He would tell them repeatedly "I'm not too sure about that, if the economy doesn't improve significantly in the next 4 years, the Democrats will evaporate"

This is from the guy who's tag line is "The spin stops here".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 08, 2012, 05:59:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2012, 05:46:45 PM
Gawd Jon Stewart was on fire last night!  (He's been on fire the whole way through this campaign IMNSHO.)  It was like watching years of denial on Fox News melting away in the face of the relentless onslaught of reality.  Even when all the other networks were calling Ohio for Obama at 76% reporting they still had Karl Rove claiming that Romney was going to pull a last-minute surprise and win it against impossible odds.

It's truly fascinating to see insights into the minds of these people, the way they reject reality in favour of a world view that they feel more comfortable with no matter how false it is.  And when reality finally hit them after all these years, the looks on their faces were just priceless.

I happened to be watching Fox on election night, just to see the reaction of the pundits, to be fair to Fox they called the Election for Obama before most of the other channels including CNN. The funny thing was that they started to second guess themselves when Carl Rove started giving his spin on the numbers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 08, 2012, 06:21:40 PM
Chris Christie and Condoleeza Rice as his VP and they take it easy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2012, 06:29:24 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2012, 05:49:55 PM
I watched The O'Reilly factor last night when I got home, couldnt help it if truth be told.

Bill had independent contributors on and they all repeated that the GOP needed to re-invent itself in the aftermath of this election. He would tell them repeatedly "I'm not too sure about that, if the economy doesn't improve significantly in the next 4 years, the Democrats will evaporate"

This is from the guy who's tag line is "The spin stops here".

Jesus! And Bill's not the worst of them either, he's positively sane compared to most of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 08, 2012, 06:55:08 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2012, 06:21:40 PM
Chris Christie and Condoleeza Rice as his VP and they take it easy.

Colin Powell would be a serious challenger but he had pissed everyone off in the GOP with his endorsement of Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on November 08, 2012, 07:25:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2012, 06:29:24 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2012, 05:49:55 PM
I watched The O'Reilly factor last night when I got home, couldnt help it if truth be told.

Bill had independent contributors on and they all repeated that the GOP needed to re-invent itself in the aftermath of this election. He would tell them repeatedly "I'm not too sure about that, if the economy doesn't improve significantly in the next 4 years, the Democrats will evaporate"

This is from the guy who's tag line is "The spin stops here".

Jesus! And Bill's not the worst of them either, he's positively sane compared to most of them.


Put myself through the punishment of watching O'Reilly Factor too, just to see if he would admit that himself and Karl Rove got it seriously wrong on Monday night when Rove proudly held up his electoral college map showing Romney with 285. Bill said he agreed with every state except New Hampshire, which still meant O'Reilly had Romney pegged for 279 and therefore the presidency. Last night he had expert analysis on why Romney lost, as if he knew this was going to happen all along. They got it seriously wrong. Other clowns like Dick Morris got it wrong by wider margins. Meanwhile you had conservative media lambasting Nate Silver of Five Thirty Eight blog on NYT. If Florida goes for Obama, he will have got every state correct with his deeper analysis of data. Lot of soul searching going on now by pundits who got it seriously wrong with some suggesting that with Silver getting it right on a constant basis, it might hopefully put an end to the hot air pundits whose numbers tend to be more wishful thinking or an effort to influence the election (as many polls are ideologically biased - eg all those Republican polls that said PA was in play for example). Lot of folks (my wife's family) are walking around in a state of shock now because they only watch Fox news and Fox led them to believe this was going to be a landslide. Had they followed Silver, they'd have known all along that the electoral college vote was not even going to be close.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 08, 2012, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on November 08, 2012, 07:25:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2012, 06:29:24 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2012, 05:49:55 PM
I watched The O'Reilly factor last night when I got home, couldnt help it if truth be told.

Bill had independent contributors on and they all repeated that the GOP needed to re-invent itself in the aftermath of this election. He would tell them repeatedly "I'm not too sure about that, if the economy doesn't improve significantly in the next 4 years, the Democrats will evaporate"

This is from the guy who's tag line is "The spin stops here".

Jesus! And Bill's not the worst of them either, he's positively sane compared to most of them.


Put myself through the punishment of watching O'Reilly Factor too, just to see if he would admit that himself and Karl Rove got it seriously wrong on Monday night when Rove proudly held up his electoral college map showing Romney with 285. Bill said he agreed with every state except New Hampshire, which still meant O'Reilly had Romney pegged for 279 and therefore the presidency. Last night he had expert analysis on why Romney lost, as if he knew this was going to happen all along. They got it seriously wrong. Other clowns like Dick Morris got it wrong by wider margins. Meanwhile you had conservative media lambasting Nate Silver of Five Thirty Eight blog on NYT. If Florida goes for Obama, he will have got every state correct with his deeper analysis of data. Lot of soul searching going on now by pundits who got it seriously wrong with some suggesting that with Silver getting it right on a constant basis, it might hopefully put an end to the hot air pundits whose numbers tend to be more wishful thinking or an effort to influence the election (as many polls are ideologically biased - eg all those Republican polls that said PA was in play for example). Lot of folks (my wife's family) are walking around in a state of shock now because they only watch Fox news and Fox led them to believe this was going to be a landslide. Had they followed Silver, they'd have known all along that the electoral college vote was not even going to be close.

The Bookies had it 1/5 Obama and 3/1 Romney on Sunday, Vegas is usually pretty close when giving out the odds and more reliable than Fox ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on November 08, 2012, 08:36:17 PM
Come straight out and say it as it is. Maybe I'm stupid, but are you saying Hilary will do it or not?
Sorry for not being clearer - I think she could do it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2012, 09:01:47 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 08, 2012, 06:55:08 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2012, 06:21:40 PM
Chris Christie and Condoleeza Rice as his VP and they take it easy.

Colin Powell would be a serious challenger but he had pissed everyone off in the GOP with his endorsement of Obama.

He would have pissed off the exact sort of extremists that the GOP needs to lose. Him and Bloomberg on the same ticket would be a strong one IMHO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 08, 2012, 10:13:33 PM
Both sides pander to their loons in the media and at election time but tend to tone it down when it comes time for the rubber to hit the road.

The Republicans really can't change on issues like abortion and nor should they. It's immigration where they will win or lose future elections. They have to lose the image of the party trying to deport half of latino peoples' families or they'll never have the traction they need in those communities that tend to be otherwise socially and fiscally conservative. Without a serious tact change there it's going to be increasingly harder for Republican candidates to win the presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 09, 2012, 10:18:34 AM
I'm guessing Mitt won't need this website anymore ;)
(http://politicalwire.com/images/Mitt%20Romney%20the%20President%20Elect%20Join%20The%20Administration.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 09, 2012, 10:20:39 AM
It was a nice touch with the 'En Espanol' button.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on November 09, 2012, 01:27:08 PM
During the final debate between Obama and Romney, they both endorsed strict sanctions on Iran. The following article by John Pilger outlines what similar sanctions did to Iraq, and how 500,000 died.

How can the US call itself the "Greatest nation on earth", whenever they are responsible for the murder of millions of innocent people over the last 60+ years.......

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/iraq/2016-john-pilger-from-iraq-to-iran-the-lies-told-by-both-candidates-in-the-us-election

John Pilger: From Iraq to Iran - the lies told by both Obama and Romney in the US election

IN 1999, I travelled to Iraq with Denis Halliday who had resigned as assistant Secretary-General of the United Nations rather than enforce a punitive UN embargo on Iraq.

Devised and policed by the United States and Britain, the extreme suffering caused by these "sanctions" included, according to Unicef, the deaths of half a million Iraqi infants under the age of five.

Ten years later, in New York, I met the senior British official responsible for the imposition of sanctions. He is Carne Ross, once known in the UN as "Mr.Iraq". I read to him a statement he made to a parliamentary select committee in 2007 :

"The weight of evidence clearly indicates that sanctions caused massive human suffering among ordinary Iraqis, particularly children. We, the US and UK governments, were the primary engineers and offenders of sanctions and were well aware of this evidence at the time but we largely ignored it or blamed it on the Saddam government. [We] effectively denied the entire population a means to live."

I said, "That's a shocking admission."

"Yes, I agree," he replied, "I feel very ashamed about it ... Before I went to New York, I went to the Foreign Office expecting a briefing on the vast piles of weapons that we still thought Iraq possessed, and the desk officer sort of looked at me slightly sheepishly and said, 'Well actually, we don't think there is anything in Iraq.' "

That was 1997, more than five years before George W. Bush and Tony Blair invaded Iraq for reasons they knew were fabricated. The bloodshed they caused, according to recent studies, is greater than that of the Rwanda genocide.

On 26 February 2003, one month before the invasion, Dr. Rafil Dhafir, a prominent cancer specialist in Syracuse, New York, was arrested by federal agents and interrogated about the charity he had founded, Help the Needy. Dr. Dhafir was one of many Americans, Muslims and non-Muslims, who for 13 years had raised money for food and medicines for sick and starving Iraqis who were the victims of sanctions.

He had asked US officials if this humanitarian aid was legal and was assured it was -- until the early morning he was hauled out of his car by federal agents as he left for his surgery. His front door was smashed down and his wife had guns pointed at her head. Today, he is serving 22 years in prison.

On the day of the arrest, Bush's attorney-general, John Ashcroft, announced that "funders of terrorism" had been caught. The "terrorist" was a man who had devoted himself to caring for others, including cancer sufferers in his own New York community. More than $2 million was raised for his surety and several people pledged their homes; yet he was refused bail six times.

Charged under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, Dr. Dhafir's crime was to send food and medicine to the stricken country of his birth. He was "offered" the prospect of a lesser sentence if he pleaded guilty and he refused on principle. Plea bargaining is the iniquity of the US judicial system, giving prosecutors the powers of judge, jury and executioner. For refusing, he was punished with added charges, including defrauding the Medicare system, a "crime" based on not having filled out claim forms correctly, and money laundering and tax evasion, inflated technicalities related to the charitable status of Help the Needy.

The then Governor of New York, George Pataki, called this "money laundering to help terrorist organisations ... conduct horrible acts". He described Dr. Dhafir and the supporters of Help the Needy as "terrorists living here in New York among us ... who are supporting and aiding and abetting those who would destroy our way of life and kill our friends and neighbours". For jurors, the message was powerfully manipulative. This was America in the hysterical wake of 9/11.

The trial in 2004 and 2005 was out of Kafka. It began with the prosecution successfully petitioning the judge to prohibit "terrorism" from being mentioned. "This ruling turned into a brick wall for the defence," says Katherine Hughes, an observer in court. "Prosecutors could hint at more serious charges, but the defence was never allowed to follow that line of questioning and demolish it. Consequently, the trial was not, in fact, what it was really about."

It was a political show trial of Stalinist dimensions, an anti-Muslim sideshow to the "war on terror". The jury was told darkly that Dr. Dhafir was a Salafi Muslim, as if this was sinister. Osama bin Laden was mentioned, with no relevance. That Help the Needy had openly advertised its humanitarian aims, and there were invoices and receipts for the purchase of emergency food aid was of no interest. Last February, the same judge, Norman Mordue, "re-sentenced" Dr. Dhafir to 22 years: a cruelty worthy of the Gulag.

With their "terrorist" case "won", the prosecutors held a celebration dinner, "partying," wrote a Syracuse lawyer to the local newspaper, "as if they had won the Super Bowl ... having perpetuated a monstrous lie [against a man] who had helped thousands in Iraq suffering unjustly ... the trial was a perversion". No executive of the oil companies that did billions of dollars of illegal business with Saddam Hussein during the embargo has been prosecuted. "I am stunned by the conviction of this humanitarian," said Denis Halliday, "especially as the US State Department breached its own sanctions to the tune of $10bn."

During this year's US presidential campaign, both candidates agreed on sanctions against Iran which, they claimed, posed a nuclear threat to the Middle East. Repeated over and again, this assertion evoked the lies told about Iraq and the extreme suffering of that country.
Sanctions are already devastating Iran's sick and disabled. As imported drugs become impossibly expensive, leukaemia and other cancer sufferers are the first victims. The Pentagon calls this "full spectrum dominance".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 09, 2012, 02:45:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2012, 05:09:36 PM
It looks like the many faces of US politics include more than a few Hispanic features. Which is very sad for the white conservatives who vote Republican.

Made me smile that, perfectly sums up this kids ignorance, I know many Republicans and over the years I only met two, a husband and wife who were racists, they were also tea partiers, I no longer bother with them because, like you, they are ignorant fcukers!

I know a fair few Democrats, several of them life long Dems who, upon Obama getting the nomination 4 or so years ago decided they were not going to vote for Obama and actually voted Republican, one guy was a lifelong teamster, now they are the real bigots.

I am a fiscal conservative and I am all for Hispanics, blacks, Japanese and Muslims running for office in this country, I dont give a shite what race, color or creed a man or woman is, I would vote for the person I thought would do the best job.

One last thing you plonker, there are many good Republicans in this country, same goes for the Democrats nad just because you voted for Obama does not mean that you automatically like Hispanics and people that differ from you.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2012, 02:53:13 PM
Quote from: stew on November 09, 2012, 02:45:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2012, 05:09:36 PM
It looks like the many faces of US politics include more than a few Hispanic features. Which is very sad for the white conservatives who vote Republican.

Made me smile that, perfectly sums up this kids ignorance, I know many Republicans and over the years I only met two, a husband and wife who were racists, they were also tea partiers, I no longer bother with them because, like you, they are ignorant fcukers!

I know a fair few Democrats, several of them life long Dems who, upon Obama getting the nomination 4 or so years ago decided they were not going to vote for Obama and actually voted Republican, one guy was a lifelong teamster, now they are the real bigots.

I am a fiscal conservative and I am all for Hispanics, blacks, Japanese and Muslims running for office in this country, I dont give a shite what race, color or creed a man or woman is, I would vote for the person I thought would do the best job.

One last thing you plonker, there are many good Republicans in this country, same goes for the Democrats nad just because you voted for Obama does not mean that you automatically like Hispanics and people that differ from you.
Stew- maybe if there were more Republicans who thought like you do then Romney would have won the Hispanic vote.
It just looks like there aren't enough white guys to push the Republicans over the line. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2012, 02:57:25 PM
Maybe if there were enough Hispanics who thought like Stew does ...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2012, 03:08:24 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2012, 02:57:25 PM
Maybe if there were enough Hispanics who thought like Stew does ...
give them time. The Irish used to be the gardeners and the cooks one time and now look at Paul Ryan  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 09, 2012, 04:17:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2012, 09:01:47 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 08, 2012, 06:55:08 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2012, 06:21:40 PM
Chris Christie and Condoleeza Rice as his VP and they take it easy.

Colin Powell would be a serious challenger but he had pissed everyone off in the GOP with his endorsement of Obama.

He would have pissed off the exact sort of extremists that the GOP needs to lose. Him and Bloomberg on the same ticket would be a strong one IMHO.

If Powell runs he should run as a Democrat, he has no business running as a Republican at this stage.

Do you really think that only the GOP has extremists? ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 09, 2012, 04:37:18 PM
In the modern age would a guy like Christie be electable? From what I have heard on a few radio programmes this week he'd need to lose a serious amount of weight before he'd be considered?
Not sure how true that is but wouldn't surprise me. What do our American based posters think (political leanings aside)?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 09, 2012, 05:18:31 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 09, 2012, 04:37:18 PM
In the modern age would a guy like Christie be electable? From what I have heard on a few radio programmes this week he'd need to lose a serious amount of weight before he'd be considered?
Not sure how true that is but wouldn't surprise me. What do our American based posters think (political leanings aside)?

Unfortunately I would agree- one of the most important things is that you look "presidential" which means central casting could get away with putting him in a movie as the president. I'm just not sure that he would make that bar. However, I would also say that the american voting public has surprised me in the past
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2012, 05:40:00 PM
You can lose a lot of weight in four years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2012, 06:27:49 PM
Ed Moloney 
   
http://thebrokenelbow.com/2012/11/02/some-cynical-thoughts-about-hurricane-sandy/

The first thing is that the storm has confirmed New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg as the repugnant jerk we always thought him to be. The billionaire founder and owner of the Bloomberg financial empire, the self-centered friend of Fifth and Park Avenues and the pal of some of Wall Street's more execrable burghers, has emerged from Hurricane Sandy as the undisputed Mayor not of New York but Manhattan, that is the bit of city where under Bloomberg's three-term mayoralty rents have become so high that it really has become off limits to all but the wealthy.

The other cynical observation concerns Barack Obama who faces re-election this Tuesday. No sooner had the winds from Sandy died down than Obama was on a plane to New Jersey to spend time with a guy who is surely one of the more obnoxious pieces of work in American politics. I am talking about the loud mouthed, egotistical, blustering, far-right bully know as Governor Chris Christie
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 09, 2012, 08:02:56 PM
(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/5091d0caeab8eab071000007-400-300/want-more-from-the-obama-christie-tour.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2012, 11:28:49 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 09, 2012, 04:37:18 PM
In the modern age would a guy like Christie be electable? From what I have heard on a few radio programmes this week he'd need to lose a serious amount of weight before he'd be considered?
Not sure how true that is but wouldn't surprise me. What do our American based posters think (political leanings aside)?

One of the commentators on with Matt Cooper this week (possibly Ed Hayes or Cal Thomas) mentioned something about Christie having committed to a very public weight loss and fitness regime that they believed is the start of his campaign for 2016.

While he may have pissed off a few in the GOP who may have seen his relationship with Obama over Sandy as some form of betrayal (rather than, you know, doing what he was elected to do - serve the people as best possible), that will fade as it dawns on more people that Romney wasn't going to get close, with or without the hurricane. Christie will be a very, very strong candidate and would have a lot of cross-over appeal with Democrats, particularly in the north-east.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on November 10, 2012, 04:17:01 AM
Christie would certainly benefit from shedding fat--a good start might be Limbaugh and Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 19, 2012, 11:15:24 AM
Article about the effect of Sandy on a poor neighbourhood in New York

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/dec/11/after-storm/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2013, 06:59:08 PM
Fox News to shut down for routine maintenance during Obama inauguration (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/01/fox-news-to-shut-down-for-routine-maintenance-monday-morning-at-1130.html?mbid=social_)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 19, 2013, 09:49:50 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2012, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2012, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2012, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Mont on November 07, 2012, 01:21:03 PM
was only going to b 1 outcome. Romney was a poor selection to run.
Does this mean Hilary will be closer in 2016?
If they put forward hilary in 2016 she will lose. Chris Christie is a shoe in for the Republicans as a candidate in 2016

With Bill in her corner why would you think that?
she isn't well liked on the ground from what I hear.

She is not obviously not well liked in the scratcher either apparently! :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 24, 2013, 07:19:26 PM
the debt ceiling in the US explained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIbkoop4AYE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Count 10 on July 01, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
All quiet on the western front ;)


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/30/world/europe/eu-nsa/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2013, 03:30:06 PM
Quote from: Count 10 on July 01, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
All quiet on the western front ;)


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/30/world/europe/eu-nsa/index.html

Is this REALLY a shock to these EU officials?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Count 10 on July 01, 2013, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2013, 03:30:06 PM
Quote from: Count 10 on July 01, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
All quiet on the western front ;)


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/30/world/europe/eu-nsa/index.html

Is this REALLY a shock to these EU officials?

Think it is...they obviously never heard of keep you enemies close...but your friends closer!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 01, 2013, 04:27:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2013, 03:30:06 PM
Quote from: Count 10 on July 01, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
All quiet on the western front ;)


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/30/world/europe/eu-nsa/index.html

Is this REALLY a shock to these EU officials?

Of course it isn't.

But they have to pretend it is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 18, 2013, 11:15:16 PM
These Tea Party boys are some beauties:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/rick-scarborough-lawsuit-homosexuality_n_4124195.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/rick-scarborough-lawsuit-homosexuality_n_4124195.html)

Rick Scarborough, Tea Party Leader, Suggests Class Action Lawsuit Against Homosexuality

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2013, 02:28:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2013, 11:15:16 PM
These Tea Party boys are some beauties:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/rick-scarborough-lawsuit-homosexuality_n_4124195.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/rick-scarborough-lawsuit-homosexuality_n_4124195.html)

Rick Scarborough, Tea Party Leader, Suggests Class Action Lawsuit Against Homosexuality

But...but..but... I thought the Tea Party was only about economic issues and the supposedly overreaching federal government???  ::)

How does one sue a sexual orientation? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: southdown on October 22, 2013, 12:13:26 PM
Amnesty have hinted heavily that the US are guilty of war crimes following their bombardment of Pakistan with drone attacks.

Of course, nothing will be done about this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 14, 2014, 11:00:31 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2014/09/11/stretch-hummers-a-bloody-brawl-and-sarah-palin/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2014/09/11/stretch-hummers-a-bloody-brawl-and-sarah-palin/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on September 15, 2014, 04:00:05 AM
J70, they're just not comfortable with practicing homo sapiens
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on October 22, 2014, 12:05:45 PM
Some of the forms of ID suitable in Texas Voting booths.

http://www.txdemocrats.org/press/texas-democratic-party-on-voter-id-requirements

My favourite is the one in Bold

1. TX Driver's License issued by DPS

2. TX Personal ID card issued by DPS

3. TX concealed handgun license issued by DPS

4. US military ID card showing your photo

5. US citizenship certificate showing your photo

6. US passport book or card

7. Election ID Certificate (EIC) issued by DPS

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 10:21:46 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/05/us-midterms-republican-governors-scott-walker-larry-hogan

The Armalite in one hand and The Bible in the other . . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 05, 2014, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 10:21:46 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/05/us-midterms-republican-governors-scott-walker-larry-hogan

The Armalite in one hand and The Bible in the other . . .


Ever here of separation of Church & State????


Walker is an Arsehole,  the problem over here is that the system is rotten to the core from the Pres on down, the fact thst the NDA give walker an A plus plus rating tells you all you need to know about him!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 05:01:24 PM
Quote from: stew on November 05, 2014, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 10:21:46 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/05/us-midterms-republican-governors-scott-walker-larry-hogan

The Armalite in one hand and The Bible in the other . . .


Ever here of separation of Church & State????


Walker is an Arsehole,  the problem over here is that the system is rotten to the core from the Pres on down, the fact thst the NDA give walker an A plus plus rating tells you all you need to know about him!!!!

I was referring more abstractly to the fact that Republicans as a whole are taking over with their gun toting bible thumping ways.

Given the hand he was dealt I think Obama will go down in history as having a successful 2 terms. . . he presided over the economic recovery, introduced obamacare, ended the war in Iraq, got Osama, repealed don't ask don't tell and a few other notable achievements. All with a Republican congress.

The problem for Democrats now is they don't have that charismatic personality to bring the people with them. Fox News has taken over and Republican doomsday scenarios seem to have scare mongered people into believing Obama bad/Republlican good. If the GOP send up a half articulate person they will win as there's no real force coming from the left.

Next up is the Presidential election... who are the main players for that at this stage?? Will Clinton get a shot? I hope not because she has zero chance of winning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: manfromdelmonte on November 05, 2014, 05:21:39 PM
you have to laugh at the absurdity of american politics.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2014, 05:54:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 05:01:24 PM
Quote from: stew on November 05, 2014, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 10:21:46 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/05/us-midterms-republican-governors-scott-walker-larry-hogan

The Armalite in one hand and The Bible in the other . . .


Ever here of separation of Church & State????


Walker is an Arsehole,  the problem over here is that the system is rotten to the core from the Pres on down, the fact thst the NDA give walker an A plus plus rating tells you all you need to know about him!!!!

I was referring more abstractly to the fact that Republicans as a whole are taking over with their gun toting bible thumping ways.

Given the hand he was dealt I think Obama will go down in history as having a successful 2 terms. . . he presided over the economic recovery, introduced obamacare, ended the war in Iraq, got Osama, repealed don't ask don't tell and a few other notable achievements. All with a Republican congress.

The problem for Democrats now is they don't have that charismatic personality to bring the people with them. Fox News has taken over and Republican doomsday scenarios seem to have scare mongered people into believing Obama bad/Republlican good. If the GOP send up a half articulate person they will win as there's no real force coming from the left.

Next up is the Presidential election... who are the main players for that at this stage?? Will Clinton get a shot? I hope not because she has zero chance of winning.

Zero chance of winning? Hillary Clinton??

The Republicans are scared shitless of her. Expect numerous more investigations into Benghazi, this time in the Senate, in an attempt to finally smear her.

Nothing is ever certain, but at this point, Clinton is the presumptive Democratic nominee. I don't see any Obama around this time to steal it from her, but you never know.

From the Republican side, I've no idea. Rand Paul is abandoning some of his libertarian views to try to appeal to the wingnut end of the party, but Ted Cruz already has that end sewn up. The problem for them is that the likes of Ted Cruz is not electable. Extremely conservative right wingers can do well in state races, especially in midterms, when the electorate is skewed towards old, conservative white people. However, a much broader spectrum of people come out to vote in presidential years. Obama has got hammered in both his midterms, but has easily won election both presidential years when he himself was on the ballot.

Another reason why not too much should be read into this particular midterms is that the Democrats were defending 21 seats, the Republicans only 12. The seven Senate seats the Democrats lost were mostly in conservative states, seats that they took off the GOP on the back of Obama's election in 2008. In 2016, the Republicans will be the ones defending more tenuous seats, and that combined with a presidential year voter turnout should see the pendulum swing back towards the Democrats.

Off course, again, nothing is certain. Had the midterms been held this time last year, the Republicans would have been in big trouble after they shut down the government. But the shit that happens in the months leading up to the election, in addition to the long term stuff like the economy, is what counts most. Its no coincidence that the Republicans have been going around screaming about Ebola and the administration's supposedly disastrous handling of it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 05, 2014, 06:25:01 PM
It looks like the GOP are going to have problems agreeing on a pres. Candidate. They still haven't figured out how to appeal to women and latinos.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 05, 2014, 07:19:39 PM
Elizabeth Warren will give Hillary a bit of a problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2014, 09:35:33 AM
Uh Oh . . .

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/11/06/3589464/gordon-klingenschmitt/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 07, 2014, 01:15:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2014, 09:35:33 AM
Uh Oh . . .

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/11/06/3589464/gordon-klingenschmitt/

Holy sh1, he could almost be a caricature but he is real and he is in the Senate!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2014, 02:55:14 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 07, 2014, 01:15:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2014, 09:35:33 AM
Uh Oh . . .

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/11/06/3589464/gordon-klingenschmitt/

Holy sh1, he could almost be a caricature but he is real and he is in the Senate!

STATE SENATE.....think County Council
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2014, 03:01:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 05:01:24 PM
Quote from: stew on November 05, 2014, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 10:21:46 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/05/us-midterms-republican-governors-scott-walker-larry-hogan

The Armalite in one hand and The Bible in the other . . .


Ever here of separation of Church & State????


Walker is an Arsehole,  the problem over here is that the system is rotten to the core from the Pres on down, the fact thst the NDA give walker an A plus plus rating tells you all you need to know about him!!!!

I was referring more abstractly to the fact that Republicans as a whole are taking over with their gun toting bible thumping ways.

Given the hand he was dealt I think Obama will go down in history as having a successful 2 terms. . . he presided over the economic recovery, introduced obamacare, ended the war in Iraq, got Osama, repealed don't ask don't tell and a few other notable achievements. All with a Republican congress.

The problem for Democrats now is they don't have that charismatic personality to bring the people with them. Fox News has taken over and Republican doomsday scenarios seem to have scare mongered people into believing Obama bad/Republlican good. If the GOP send up a half articulate person they will win as there's no real force coming from the left.

Next up is the Presidential election... who are the main players for that at this stage?? Will Clinton get a shot? I hope not because she has zero chance of winning.

You're painting in very broad strokes there.

Reason Republicans did so well is that they have (in a lot of places) come much closer to the center.

Bluest of blue states, Massachusetts, just elected a Republican governor as did Illinois

http://www.ontheissues.org/governor/Charlie_Baker_Gun_Control.htm

The only meaningful Congressional race in MA, the Republican cadidate was a married gay guy-Richard Tisei.

Repubs arent as dumb as many people think and they are moving very swiftly to the center
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 07, 2014, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2014, 02:55:14 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 07, 2014, 01:15:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2014, 09:35:33 AM
Uh Oh . . .

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/11/06/3589464/gordon-klingenschmitt/

Holy sh1, he could almost be a caricature but he is real and he is in the Senate!

STATE SENATE.....think County Council
Thank fc for that, I was too busy looking at the speeches and missed that detail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2014, 11:00:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2014, 03:01:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 05:01:24 PM
Quote from: stew on November 05, 2014, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2014, 10:21:46 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/05/us-midterms-republican-governors-scott-walker-larry-hogan

The Armalite in one hand and The Bible in the other . . .


Ever here of separation of Church & State????


Walker is an Arsehole,  the problem over here is that the system is rotten to the core from the Pres on down, the fact thst the NDA give walker an A plus plus rating tells you all you need to know about him!!!!

I was referring more abstractly to the fact that Republicans as a whole are taking over with their gun toting bible thumping ways.

Given the hand he was dealt I think Obama will go down in history as having a successful 2 terms. . . he presided over the economic recovery, introduced obamacare, ended the war in Iraq, got Osama, repealed don't ask don't tell and a few other notable achievements. All with a Republican congress.

The problem for Democrats now is they don't have that charismatic personality to bring the people with them. Fox News has taken over and Republican doomsday scenarios seem to have scare mongered people into believing Obama bad/Republlican good. If the GOP send up a half articulate person they will win as there's no real force coming from the left.

Next up is the Presidential election... who are the main players for that at this stage?? Will Clinton get a shot? I hope not because she has zero chance of winning.

You're painting in very broad strokes there.

Reason Republicans did so well is that they have (in a lot of places) come much closer to the center.

Bluest of blue states, Massachusetts, just elected a Republican governor as did Illinois

http://www.ontheissues.org/governor/Charlie_Baker_Gun_Control.htm

The only meaningful Congressional race in MA, the Republican cadidate was a married gay guy-Richard Tisei.

Repubs arent as dumb as many people think and they are moving very swiftly to the center

No they're not.

Perhaps they might put up a more moderate candidate for governor in a place like MA, but that is certainly not the case among their congressional delegation, especially when it comes to the south. They don't want to do anything about immigrants, they want to repeal Obamacare, they won't cede anything whatsoever on guns, they don't give a f**k about the environment beyond getting rid of environmental protections, they'd like to see anything that regulates worker and consumer safety abolished, they have nothing but contempt for poor people,  considering them all "moochers", they're doing all they can to make it as difficult as possible for poor minorities to vote etc. etc.

Now sure, they may have toned down the rhetoric this time around after the country rejected it in 2012, but the beliefs and intentions are still there. Years of climate denialism suddenly became the Frank Luntz style "we are not scientists" and (implied) don't want to discuss this issue till the election is over (new chairman of the Senate committee in charge of combating climate change will be Inhofe, of all people).

And I don't think they're dumb.

I think a lot of their followers are. Why worry about what can help you in your life when you can vote on an irrelevant wedge issue like gay marriage or the "threat" from Ebola or the government coming for your hunting rifle or to shut down your church.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2014, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2014, 11:00:56 AM
And I don't think they're dumb.

I think a lot of their followers are. Why worry about what can help you in your life when you can vote on an irrelevant wedge issue like gay marriage or the "threat" from Ebola or the government coming for your hunting rifle or to shut down your church.

A bit like the unionists here. The leaders, who are not dumb, spend their time thinking of some topics, here it is flegs etc, which will get the unwashed riled up. It is difficult to oppose the beating of a drum with a more nuanced argument to people who are accustomed to nuance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2014, 03:05:39 PM


No they're not.

Perhaps they might put up a more moderate candidate for governor in a place like MA, but that is certainly not the case among their congressional delegation, especially when it comes to the south. They don't want to do anything about immigrants, they want to repeal Obamacare, they won't cede anything whatsoever on guns, they don't give a f**k about the environment beyond getting rid of environmental protections, they'd like to see anything that regulates worker and consumer safety abolished, they have nothing but contempt for poor people,  considering them all "moochers", they're doing all they can to make it as difficult as possible for poor minorities to vote etc. etc.

Now sure, they may have toned down the rhetoric this time around after the country rejected it in 2012, but the beliefs and intentions are still there. Years of climate denialism suddenly became the Frank Luntz style "we are not scientists" and (implied) don't want to discuss this issue till the election is over (new chairman of the Senate committee in charge of combating climate change will be Inhofe, of all people).

And I don't think they're dumb.

I think a lot of their followers are. Why worry about what can help you in your life when you can vote on an irrelevant wedge issue like gay marriage or the "threat" from Ebola or the government coming for your hunting rifle or to shut down your church.
[/quote]

You put up the candidates that will win in their own area...simple as..the Democrats do exactly the same thing, but the main stream media seem to gloss over their more extreme positions

Re Obamacare: it was unpopular before it was passed and its as unpopular today as ever.  Why do you think certain aspects were delayed by Obama so they wouldnt kick into until after the election

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/08/01/obamacare-hits-a-new-low-in-popularity-but-its-not-a-dominant-issue/

We could debate back and forth all day on all of the topics you bring up but watch out....the Republicans have wised up big time.  New Governor of IL just appointed former Obama cabinet member Bill Daley (brother of Mayor Daley) as a member of his transition team.

Best presidents of the past 30 years Bill Clinton and Ronald Regan.....had one thing in common....they came to the center.  The worst two GW Bush and Obama played to the fringes and we see what the result is


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
Wised up = tone down the rhetoric.  It doesn't mean a change in policy. Their victory in IL says more about the corruption and ineptitude of the Democratic party and that candidate there than it does about the GOP.

As for Obamacare,  the constituent parts are popular,  so popular in fact that the GOP didn't campaign on it anywhere near as much as two years ago. Sure, Fox News and Limbaugh and his clones rail against it constantly,  scaring the f**k out of the old white bastards who constitute their main, dependable base, but the component parts are popular.  It was a Republican idea from 20 years ago FFS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2014, 08:08:02 PM
According to the FT the Scrooge McDuck twins aka the Koch bros spent 300 million on Republican candidates who signed up to climate change denial. Dumb f**kers. US gdp contracted by 0.75% in q1 2014 because of the polar vortex caused by melting arctic ice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
Wised up = tone down the rhetoric.  It doesn't mean a change in policy. Their victory in IL says more about the corruption and ineptitude of the Democratic party and that candidate there than it does about the GOP.

As for Obamacare,  the constituent parts are popular,  so popular in fact that the GOP didn't campaign on it anywhere near as much as two years ago. Sure, Fox News and Limbaugh and his clones rail against it constantly,  scaring the f**k out of the old white b**tards who constitute their main, dependable base, but the component parts are popular.  It was a Republican idea from 20 years ago FFS.

Jaysus you have all the MSNBC talking points down to a tee.

Wait until next years premiums are published in the nex month or so and well soon see how popular it is

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:17:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2014, 08:08:02 PM
According to the FT the Scrooge McDuck twins aka the Koch bros spent 300 million on Republican candidates who signed up to climate change denial. Dumb f**kers. US gdp contracted by 0.75% in q1 2014 because of the polar vortex caused by melting arctic ice.

Ever hear of Tom Steyer?

http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/tom-steyer-spent-74-million-on-the-election-he-didn-t-get-much-to-show-for-it-20141105

Or George Soros  for that matter?

http://m.cjonline.com/blog-post/kevin-mcginty/2014-02-09/koch-brothers-are-amateurs-compared-george-soros#gsc.tab=0

It's great to see the Democrats get a dose of their on medicine



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 09, 2014, 09:32:47 PM
@whitey

I don't think anyone is arguing that there aren't donors on both sides in the US. However may I suggest that you broaden your reading list, here's a quote from your second article...


QuoteAmnesty International: Yet another open borders and pro amnesty group.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2014, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:17:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2014, 08:08:02 PM
According to the FT the Scrooge McDuck twins aka the Koch bros spent 300 million on Republican candidates who signed up to climate change denial. Dumb f**kers. US gdp contracted by 0.75% in q1 2014 because of the polar vortex caused by melting arctic ice.

Ever hear of Tom Steyer?

http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/tom-steyer-spent-74-million-on-the-election-he-didn-t-get-much-to-show-for-it-20141105

Or George Soros  for that matter?

http://m.cjonline.com/blog-post/kevin-mcginty/2014-02-09/koch-brothers-are-amateurs-compared-george-soros#gsc.tab=0

It's great to see the Democrats get a dose of their on medicine
Steyer was the big loser.
Goppers saying they couldn't comment on CX because they are not scientists while taking money from the Kochs.
Sick.
As if red states can avoid drought and changes to weather patterns .
How's the California drought going ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2014, 10:20:12 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 09, 2014, 09:32:47 PM
@whitey

I don't think anyone is arguing that there aren't donors on both sides in the US. However may I suggest that you broaden your reading list, here's a quote from your second article...


QuoteAmnesty International: Yet another open borders and pro amnesty group.

LOL....the result of a quick google search Im afraid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 09, 2014, 10:46:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 10:20:12 PM
LOL....the result of a quick google search Im afraid.

no shit!

here's the NY Times editorial board's (a bit left of center for some) view of money in US politics published this week:

I have an issue with how political donations are made in the US in general, and the role of lobbyists, but the money being spent on advertising by secret groups is absolutely disgraceful, and I think calls into question the validity of the claims of democracy and openness.

QuoteThe next Senate was just elected on the greatest wave of secret, special-interest money ever raised in a congressional election. What are the chances that it will take action to reduce the influence of money in politics?

Nil, of course. The next Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, has long been the most prominent advocate for unlimited secret campaign spending in Washington, under the phony banner of free speech. His own campaign benefited from $23 million in unlimited spending from independent groups like the National Rifle Association, the National Association of Realtors and the National Federation of Independent Business.

The single biggest outside spender on his behalf was a so-called social welfare group calling itself the Kentucky Opportunity Coalition, which spent $7.6 million on attack ads against his opponent, Alison Lundergan Grimes. It ran more ads in Kentucky than any other group, aside from the two campaigns.

What is its social welfare purpose, besides re-electing Mr. McConnell? It has none. Who gave that money? It could have been anyone who wants to be a political player but lacks the courage to do so openly — possibly coal interests, retailers opposed to the minimum wage, defense contractors, but there's no way for the public to know. You can bet, however, that the senator knows exactly to whom he owes an enormous favor. The only name associated with the group is Scott Jennings, a deputy political director in the George W. Bush White House, who also worked for two of Mr. McConnell's previous campaigns.

The $11.4 million spent anonymously for Mr. McConnell, though, didn't even make him the biggest beneficiary of secret donations, a phenomenon that grew substantially in this election cycle. In the 2010 midterms, when this practice was just getting started, $161 million was spent by groups that did not disclose donations. In this cycle it was up to at least $216 million, and 69 percent of it was spent on behalf of Republicans, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

In Colorado, at least $18 million in dark money was spent on behalf of Cory Gardner, the Republican newly elected to the Senate; $4 million was spent on behalf of Senator Mark Udall, the Democratic incumbent. In North Carolina, $13.7 million in secret donations was spent for Thom Tillis, the new Republican senator; $2.6 million went to Senator Kay Hagan, who was ousted.

Dark money wasn't the only type of spending that polluted the cycle; this year there were 94 "super PACs" set up for individual candidates, all of which are attempts to bypass federal limits and allow big givers to support the candidates of their choice. (These donations have to be disclosed.) Of the $51.4 million these groups spent, 57 percent were on behalf of Democrats. Overall, of the $525.6 million in independent expenditures this cycle (excluding party committees), about 57 percent was for Republicans.

That money wasn't just spent on attack ads. As Nicholas Confessore of The Times reported, it was used for tracking opponents and digging up damaging information, and expanding the ground game to turn out voters. Republicans used the money to set up a "research" group called America Rising, which existed only to sell embarrassing information and footage about Democratic candidates to Republican campaigns and super PACs.

Political operatives say this year was just a dress rehearsal for 2016, when there will be even more money, much of it secret, all benefiting the interests of the richest and best connected Americans. Given big money's influence on Tuesday, the chances for limiting it are more distant than ever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2014, 12:29:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
Wised up = tone down the rhetoric.  It doesn't mean a change in policy. Their victory in IL says more about the corruption and ineptitude of the Democratic party and that candidate there than it does about the GOP.

As for Obamacare,  the constituent parts are popular,  so popular in fact that the GOP didn't campaign on it anywhere near as much as two years ago. Sure, Fox News and Limbaugh and his clones rail against it constantly,  scaring the f**k out of the old white b**tards who constitute their main, dependable base, but the component parts are popular.  It was a Republican idea from 20 years ago FFS.

Jaysus you have all the MSNBC talking points down to a tee.

Wait until next years premiums are published in the nex month or so and well soon see how popular it is

I can't stand cable news, but go ahead if you think that strengthens your point.

But anyway, you don't think coverage of kids till 26, prohibition of previously existing conditions denial etc are popular?  Are you disputing that the mandate was a Republican idea prior to Obama co-opting it and the GOP opposing it for purely political reasons?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:14:46 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 09, 2014, 10:46:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 10:20:12 PM
LOL....the result of a quick google search Im afraid.

no shit!

here's the NY Times editorial board's (a bit left of center for some) view of money in US politics published this week:

I have an issue with how political donations are made in the US in general, and the role of lobbyists, but the money being spent on advertising by secret groups is absolutely disgraceful, and I think calls into question the validity of the claims of democracy and openness.

QuoteThe next Senate was just elected on the greatest wave of secret, special-interest money ever raised in a congressional election. What are the chances that it will take action to reduce the influence of money in politics?

Nil, of course. The next Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, has long been the most prominent advocate for unlimited secret campaign spending in Washington, under the phony banner of free speech. His own campaign benefited from $23 million in unlimited spending from independent groups like the National Rifle Association, the National Association of Realtors and the National Federation of Independent Business.

The single biggest outside spender on his behalf was a so-called social welfare group calling itself the Kentucky Opportunity Coalition, which spent $7.6 million on attack ads against his opponent, Alison Lundergan Grimes. It ran more ads in Kentucky than any other group, aside from the two campaigns.

What is its social welfare purpose, besides re-electing Mr. McConnell? It has none. Who gave that money? It could have been anyone who wants to be a political player but lacks the courage to do so openly — possibly coal interests, retailers opposed to the minimum wage, defense contractors, but there's no way for the public to know. You can bet, however, that the senator knows exactly to whom he owes an enormous favor. The only name associated with the group is Scott Jennings, a deputy political director in the George W. Bush White House, who also worked for two of Mr. McConnell's previous campaigns.

The $11.4 million spent anonymously for Mr. McConnell, though, didn't even make him the biggest beneficiary of secret donations, a phenomenon that grew substantially in this election cycle. In the 2010 midterms, when this practice was just getting started, $161 million was spent by groups that did not disclose donations. In this cycle it was up to at least $216 million, and 69 percent of it was spent on behalf of Republicans, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

In Colorado, at least $18 million in dark money was spent on behalf of Cory Gardner, the Republican newly elected to the Senate; $4 million was spent on behalf of Senator Mark Udall, the Democratic incumbent. In North Carolina, $13.7 million in secret donations was spent for Thom Tillis, the new Republican senator; $2.6 million went to Senator Kay Hagan, who was ousted.

Dark money wasn't the only type of spending that polluted the cycle; this year there were 94 "super PACs" set up for individual candidates, all of which are attempts to bypass federal limits and allow big givers to support the candidates of their choice. (These donations have to be disclosed.) Of the $51.4 million these groups spent, 57 percent were on behalf of Democrats. Overall, of the $525.6 million in independent expenditures this cycle (excluding party committees), about 57 percent was for Republicans.

That money wasn't just spent on attack ads. As Nicholas Confessore of The Times reported, it was used for tracking opponents and digging up damaging information, and expanding the ground game to turn out voters. Republicans used the money to set up a "research" group called America Rising, which existed only to sell embarrassing information and footage about Democratic candidates to Republican campaigns and super PACs.

Political operatives say this year was just a dress rehearsal for 2016, when there will be even more money, much of it secret, all benefiting the interests of the richest and best connected Americans. Given big money's influence on Tuesday, the chances for limiting it are more distant than ever.

NY Times is full of crap-all this faux indignation just because their side had their asses handed to them. 

Its okay for Democratic Billionaires and Unions to attempt to buy elections, but they dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/summ.php?cycle=2014&disp=R&pty=A&type=A

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 12:29:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
Wised up = tone down the rhetoric.  It doesn't mean a change in policy. Their victory in IL says more about the corruption and ineptitude of the Democratic party and that candidate there than it does about the GOP.

As for Obamacare,  the constituent parts are popular,  so popular in fact that the GOP didn't campaign on it anywhere near as much as two years ago. Sure, Fox News and Limbaugh and his clones rail against it constantly,  scaring the f**k out of the old white b**tards who constitute their main, dependable base, but the component parts are popular.  It was a Republican idea from 20 years ago FFS.

Jaysus you have all the MSNBC talking points down to a tee.

Wait until next years premiums are published in the nex month or so and well soon see how popular it is

I can't stand cable news, but go ahead if you think that strengthens your point.

But anyway, you don't think coverage of kids till 26, prohibition of previously existing conditions denial etc are popular?  Are you disputing that the mandate was a Republican idea prior to Obama co-opting it and the GOP opposing it for purely political reasons?


Theres some good elements of the plan but the implementation has been a disaster. I live in Massachusetts, and we had already Romney care, which was passed by a Republican Governor.  The disastrous rollout of the ACA exchange has since cost the taxpayers, of which I am one, a cool $1B.

I have included a link that addresses your assertion that this was originally a Republican idea:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 10, 2014, 01:28:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:14:46 AM

NY Times is full of crap-all this faux indignation just because their side had their asses handed to them. 

Its okay for Democratic Billionaires and Unions to attempt to buy elections, but they dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/summ.php?cycle=2014&disp=R&pty=A&type=A

I don't agree that it is ok for anyone to buy elections

I have a serious problem that the people who decide how much money that can be spent on elections are those in (indirect) receipt of the funds

Quote
"All contributions by corporations to any political committee or for any political purpose should be forbidden by law"
Theodore Roosevelt 1905
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2014, 03:20:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 12:29:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
Wised up = tone down the rhetoric.  It doesn't mean a change in policy. Their victory in IL says more about the corruption and ineptitude of the Democratic party and that candidate there than it does about the GOP.

As for Obamacare,  the constituent parts are popular,  so popular in fact that the GOP didn't campaign on it anywhere near as much as two years ago. Sure, Fox News and Limbaugh and his clones rail against it constantly,  scaring the f**k out of the old white b**tards who constitute their main, dependable base, but the component parts are popular.  It was a Republican idea from 20 years ago FFS.

Jaysus you have all the MSNBC talking points down to a tee.

Wait until next years premiums are published in the nex month or so and well soon see how popular it is

I can't stand cable news, but go ahead if you think that strengthens your point.

But anyway, you don't think coverage of kids till 26, prohibition of previously existing conditions denial etc are popular?  Are you disputing that the mandate was a Republican idea prior to Obama co-opting it and the GOP opposing it for purely political reasons?


Theres some good elements of the plan but the implementation has been a disaster. I live in Massachusetts, and we had already Romney care, which was passed by a Republican Governor.  The disastrous rollout of the ACA exchange has since cost the taxpayers, of which I am one, a cool $1B.

I have included a link that addresses your assertion that this was originally a Republican idea:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Ok, split hairs if you want... the mandate was still supported by SOME republicans, including the likes of Gingrich and Romney more recently.

The point is it is hardly the epitome of Soviet - style totalitarianism that the GOP hype would have one believe.

And yeah, the roll-out was appalling,  but that is a separate issue.

BTW, why do conservatives always need to proclaim themselves as tax-payers?

Big swing. We all pay taxes. Those taxes are used to pay for stuff some of us are bound to dislike.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2014, 03:23:55 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 10, 2014, 01:28:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:14:46 AM

NY Times is full of crap-all this faux indignation just because their side had their asses handed to them. 

Its okay for Democratic Billionaires and Unions to attempt to buy elections, but they dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/summ.php?cycle=2014&disp=R&pty=A&type=A

I don't agree that it is ok for anyone to buy elections

I have a serious problem that the people who decide how much money that can be spent on elections are those in (indirect) receipt of the funds

Quote
"All contributions by corporations to any political committee or for any political purpose should be forbidden by law"
Theodore Roosevelt 1905

TR was a great man!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2014, 03:52:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 03:20:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 12:29:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
Wised up = tone down the rhetoric.  It doesn't mean a change in policy. Their victory in IL says more about the corruption and ineptitude of the Democratic party and that candidate there than it does about the GOP.

As for Obamacare,  the constituent parts are popular,  so popular in fact that the GOP didn't campaign on it anywhere near as much as two years ago. Sure, Fox News and Limbaugh and his clones rail against it constantly,  scaring the f**k out of the old white b**tards who constitute their main, dependable base, but the component parts are popular.  It was a Republican idea from 20 years ago FFS.

Jaysus you have all the MSNBC talking points down to a tee.

Wait until next years premiums are published in the nex month or so and well soon see how popular it is

I can't stand cable news, but go ahead if you think that strengthens your point.

But anyway, you don't think coverage of kids till 26, prohibition of previously existing conditions denial etc are popular?  Are you disputing that the mandate was a Republican idea prior to Obama co-opting it and the GOP opposing it for purely political reasons?


Theres some good elements of the plan but the implementation has been a disaster. I live in Massachusetts, and we had already Romney care, which was passed by a Republican Governor.  The disastrous rollout of the ACA exchange has since cost the taxpayers, of which I am one, a cool $1B.

I have included a link that addresses your assertion that this was originally a Republican idea:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Ok, split hairs if you want... the mandate was still supported by SOME republicans, including the likes of Gingrich and Romney more recently.

The point is it is hardly the epitome of Soviet - style totalitarianism that the GOP hype would have one believe.

And yeah, the roll-out was appalling,  but that is a separate issue.

BTW, why do conservatives always need to proclaim themselves as tax-payers?

Big swing. We all pay taxes. Those taxes are used to pay for stuff some of us are bound to dislike.

Split hairs??????   LOL...keep digging.

"Policy differences aside, health care scholar and former Clinton adviser Paul Starr at Princeton University said the Affordable Care Act is distinct in one other important way.

"The Chafee plan did not spell out how increased coverage would be financed," Starr said. "It was more of a symbolic bill than an actual piece of legislation."


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 10, 2014, 04:12:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 03:52:17 AM

"The Chafee plan did not spell out how increased coverage would be financed," Starr said. "It was more of a symbolic bill than an actual piece of legislation."

American politicians aren't exactly fond of explaining in detail how any initiative is going to be funded. That's as bipartisan as they get. They also are not big fans of basic economic principles, or maths or indeed any science...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2014, 09:25:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 03:20:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 12:29:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
Wised up = tone down the rhetoric.  It doesn't mean a change in policy. Their victory in IL says more about the corruption and ineptitude of the Democratic party and that candidate there than it does about the GOP.

As for Obamacare,  the constituent parts are popular,  so popular in fact that the GOP didn't campaign on it anywhere near as much as two years ago. Sure, Fox News and Limbaugh and his clones rail against it constantly,  scaring the f**k out of the old white b**tards who constitute their main, dependable base, but the component parts are popular.  It was a Republican idea from 20 years ago FFS.

Jaysus you have all the MSNBC talking points down to a tee.

Wait until next years premiums are published in the nex month or so and well soon see how popular it is

I can't stand cable news, but go ahead if you think that strengthens your point.

But anyway, you don't think coverage of kids till 26, prohibition of previously existing conditions denial etc are popular?  Are you disputing that the mandate was a Republican idea prior to Obama co-opting it and the GOP opposing it for purely political reasons?


Theres some good elements of the plan but the implementation has been a disaster. I live in Massachusetts, and we had already Romney care, which was passed by a Republican Governor.  The disastrous rollout of the ACA exchange has since cost the taxpayers, of which I am one, a cool $1B.

I have included a link that addresses your assertion that this was originally a Republican idea:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Ok, split hairs if you want... the mandate was still supported by SOME republicans, including the likes of Gingrich and Romney more recently.

The point is it is hardly the epitome of Soviet - style totalitarianism that the GOP hype would have one believe.

And yeah, the roll-out was appalling,  but that is a separate issue.

BTW, why do conservatives always need to proclaim themselves as tax-payers?

Big swing. We all pay taxes. Those taxes are used to pay for stuff some of us are bound to dislike.
Health care spending  in the US already accounts for 17% of GDP and with the ageing of the population it could easily head towards 30% over the next 30 years.
The problem is parasitical companies who feed off the cashflows and sponsor politicians in DC.   
It's not even like US health outcomes are particularly impressive - life expectancy is lower than in many Euro countries where health spending per capita is less.
So something has to be done before healthcare bankrupts the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2014, 11:22:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 12:29:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
Wised up = tone down the rhetoric.  It doesn't mean a change in policy. Their victory in IL says more about the corruption and ineptitude of the Democratic party and that candidate there than it does about the GOP.

As for Obamacare,  the constituent parts are popular,  so popular in fact that the GOP didn't campaign on it anywhere near as much as two years ago. Sure, Fox News and Limbaugh and his clones rail against it constantly,  scaring the f**k out of the old white b**tards who constitute their main, dependable base, but the component parts are popular.  It was a Republican idea from 20 years ago FFS.

Jaysus you have all the MSNBC talking points down to a tee.

Wait until next years premiums are published in the nex month or so and well soon see how popular it is

I can't stand cable news, but go ahead if you think that strengthens your point.

But anyway, you don't think coverage of kids till 26, prohibition of previously existing conditions denial etc are popular?  Are you disputing that the mandate was a Republican idea prior to Obama co-opting it and the GOP opposing it for purely political reasons?


Theres some good elements of the plan but the implementation has been a disaster. I live in Massachusetts, and we had already Romney care, which was passed by a Republican Governor.  The disastrous rollout of the ACA exchange has since cost the taxpayers, of which I am one, a cool $1B.

I have included a link that addresses your assertion that this was originally a Republican idea:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Wow! $1 billion!!!!

If I were you I wouldn't check the US national debt or indeed the cost of bailing out Wall Street.

So don't look at this:

(http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/debtiv.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2014, 01:08:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 03:52:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 03:20:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 12:29:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
Wised up = tone down the rhetoric.  It doesn't mean a change in policy. Their victory in IL says more about the corruption and ineptitude of the Democratic party and that candidate there than it does about the GOP.

As for Obamacare,  the constituent parts are popular,  so popular in fact that the GOP didn't campaign on it anywhere near as much as two years ago. Sure, Fox News and Limbaugh and his clones rail against it constantly,  scaring the f**k out of the old white b**tards who constitute their main, dependable base, but the component parts are popular.  It was a Republican idea from 20 years ago FFS.

Jaysus you have all the MSNBC talking points down to a tee.

Wait until next years premiums are published in the nex month or so and well soon see how popular it is

I can't stand cable news, but go ahead if you think that strengthens your point.

But anyway, you don't think coverage of kids till 26, prohibition of previously existing conditions denial etc are popular?  Are you disputing that the mandate was a Republican idea prior to Obama co-opting it and the GOP opposing it for purely political reasons?


Theres some good elements of the plan but the implementation has been a disaster. I live in Massachusetts, and we had already Romney care, which was passed by a Republican Governor.  The disastrous rollout of the ACA exchange has since cost the taxpayers, of which I am one, a cool $1B.

I have included a link that addresses your assertion that this was originally a Republican idea:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Ok, split hairs if you want... the mandate was still supported by SOME republicans, including the likes of Gingrich and Romney more recently.

The point is it is hardly the epitome of Soviet - style totalitarianism that the GOP hype would have one believe.

And yeah, the roll-out was appalling,  but that is a separate issue.

BTW, why do conservatives always need to proclaim themselves as tax-payers?

Big swing. We all pay taxes. Those taxes are used to pay for stuff some of us are bound to dislike.

Split hairs??????   LOL...keep digging.

"Policy differences aside, health care scholar and former Clinton adviser Paul Starr at Princeton University said the Affordable Care Act is distinct in one other important way.

"The Chafee plan did not spell out how increased coverage would be financed," Starr said. "It was more of a symbolic bill than an actual piece of legislation."

What part of "it was a Republican idea" do you not understand?

How a mandate would be financed is a completely separate matter. And one that another republican, Romney,  tried to address.

I could propose, purely on health grounds, updating all the obsolete OSHA regs on chemical exposures today. Just because i don't address the details on how to pay for it doesn't make it any less my idea.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 01:38:02 PM
Some people seem to think that both sides are equally bad. Well, if you can find any example of barefaced lies and cheek on the American 'left' as bad as this offering from conservative website Breitbart.com (no need to read the whole article, the headline and correction at the bottom will do) . . .

(http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/v8ixpwk9yecmaekralez.jpg)

[source (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/breitbart-issues-best-correction-since-forever)]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2014, 01:54:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 01:38:02 PM
Some people seem to think that both sides are equally bad. Well, if you can find any example of barefaced lies and cheek on the American 'left' as bad as this offering from conservative website Breitbart.com (no need to read the whole article, the hedline and correction at the bottom will do) . . .

(http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/v8ixpwk9yecmaekralez.jpg)

[source (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/breitbart-issues-best-correction-since-forever)]

Anyone who takes their information from only one side in my opinion would be a "low information" voter. Satellite radio is great...listen to all sides, then make up your own mind as to who is telling the truth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2014, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 01:38:02 PM
Some people seem to think that both sides are equally bad. Well, if you can find any example of barefaced lies and cheek on the American 'left' as bad as this offering from conservative website Breitbart.com (no need to read the whole article, the headline and correction at the bottom will do) . . .

(http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/v8ixpwk9yecmaekralez.jpg)

[source (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/breitbart-issues-best-correction-since-forever)]

Are you f**king serious!!!  ;D ;D ;D

They leave the article and all its bullshit and implications up, but put a tiny disclaimer at the bottom saying that "this is in fact a different loretta lynch"!!

The unfunny part is that they probably can get away with this, legally, and their smear will work as the average reader probably will not even see the "correction".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 01:38:02 PM
Some people seem to think that both sides are equally bad. Well, if you can find any example of barefaced lies and cheek on the American 'left' as bad as this offering from conservative website Breitbart.com (no need to read the whole article, the headline and correction at the bottom will do) . . .

(http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/v8ixpwk9yecmaekralez.jpg)

[source (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/breitbart-issues-best-correction-since-forever)]

Are you f**king serious!!!  ;D ;D ;D

They leave the article and all its bullshit and implications up, but put a tiny disclaimer at the bottom saying that "this is in fact a different loretta lynch"!!

The unfunny part is that they probably can get away with this, legally, and their smear will work as the average reader probably will not even see the "correction".


No different to the MSM whitewashing the Rev Wright story in order to get Obama elected.  Media both left and right is extremely biased and long ago gave up reporting news. They view their role as creating he narrative and framing the paradigm for whatever agenda they have
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 04:50:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
No different to the MSM whitewashing the Rev Wright story in order to get Obama elected.  Media both left and right is extremely biased and long ago gave up reporting news. They view their role as creating he narrative and framing the paradigm for whatever agenda they have

Bollocks, and your they're-both-equally-as-bad bullshit isn't fooling anyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2014, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 04:50:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
No different to the MSM whitewashing the Rev Wright story in order to get Obama elected.  Media both left and right is extremely biased and long ago gave up reporting news. They view their role as creating he narrative and framing the paradigm for whatever agenda they have

Bollocks, and your they're-both-equally-as-bad bullshit isn't fooling anyone.

Yes you Nazi-loving pedo Whitey!








Correction: May in fact be someone else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2014, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2014, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 01:38:02 PM
Some people seem to think that both sides are equally bad. Well, if you can find any example of barefaced lies and cheek on the American 'left' as bad as this offering from conservative website Breitbart.com (no need to read the whole article, the headline and correction at the bottom will do) . . .

(http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/v8ixpwk9yecmaekralez.jpg)

[source (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/breitbart-issues-best-correction-since-forever)]

Are you f**king serious!!!  ;D ;D ;D

They leave the article and all its bullshit and implications up, but put a tiny disclaimer at the bottom saying that "this is in fact a different loretta lynch"!!

The unfunny part is that they probably can get away with this, legally, and their smear will work as the average reader probably will not even see the "correction".


No different to the MSM whitewashing the Rev Wright story in order to get Obama elected.  Media both left and right is extremely biased and long ago gave up reporting news. They view their role as creating he narrative and framing the paradigm for whatever agenda they have

Sorry, but that is bullshit. That story above is naked, bald-faced lying.

And Reverend Wright was covered to death for anyone who paid attention (as well as being broke by the so-called mainstream media), as was the Weathermen stuff. Even here, on gaaboard, I suspect if you look back on this thread you will find plenty of discussion led by Tyrone's Own, who was a prominent poster on US politics at the time (whatever happened to him?). People just didn't give a shit about the Reverend Wright stuff. I am one of those people. In the context that he was saying "god damn America" instead of "god bless America" (foreign policy, slavery, treatment of Native Americans, minorities), I don't find a whole lot wrong with what he said. Especially as a black man of his age.

Perhaps your real problem is that plenty of people heard about Wright, but just didn't interpret it in the "America, right or wrong" light that you did?

Its like Benghazi. How many investigations and how much Fox News and talk radio hype will it take before the right wing accepts that while things got very fucked up, nothing nefarious took place on the part of the administration?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2014, 05:46:04 PM
"Media both left and right is extremely biased and long ago gave up reporting news. They view their role as creating he narrative and framing the paradigm for whatever agenda they have"


2 echo chambers
But the GOP one is further from reality
And it's lovely when reality comes flying in through the window
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TwuR0jCavk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2014, 06:02:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2014, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 04:50:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
No different to the MSM whitewashing the Rev Wright story in order to get Obama elected.  Media both left and right is extremely biased and long ago gave up reporting news. They view their role as creating he narrative and framing the paradigm for whatever agenda they have

Bollocks, and your they're-both-equally-as-bad bullshit isn't fooling anyone.

Yes you Nazi-loving pedo Whitey!


How do you know when your losing an argument.....you start insulting people


BTW....what delights me more than anything is that the Democrats have been
pulling this shit for decades.....now that the Republicans are beating them at their own game they are apoplectic with righteous indignation.  Long may it continue





Correction: May in fact be someone else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 10, 2014, 07:11:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 06:02:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2014, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 04:50:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
No different to the MSM whitewashing the Rev Wright story in order to get Obama elected.  Media both left and right is extremely biased and long ago gave up reporting news. They view their role as creating he narrative and framing the paradigm for whatever agenda they have

Bollocks, and your they're-both-equally-as-bad bullshit isn't fooling anyone.

Yes you Nazi-loving pedo Whitey!


How do you know when your losing an argument.....you start insulting people


BTW....what delights me more than anything is that the Democrats have been
pulling this shit for decades.....now that the Republicans are beating them at their own game they are apoplectic with righteous indignation.  Long may it continue





Muppet still has is head stuck up Seafoids arse I see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 10, 2014, 07:49:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 06:02:11 PM

BTW....what delights me more than anything is that the Democrats have been
pulling this shit for decades.....now that the Republicans are beating them at their own game they are apoplectic with righteous indignation.  Long may it continue


Let me stop you right there.

This is very little to do with Democrats and Republicans, nor indeed is it much to do with Politics.

The issue at stake is the very richest people in not just the United States wield a huge amount of power and they will do whatever they can to preserve it.

One of the places that we see that in practice (if we care to look) is the ever escalating influence of money in the election process.  Given the positions taken on the key issues by certain parties at the time the time the money was being brought into the process the Republican's have been the party funded by those big business interests, oil, gas, tobacco, big retailers, telecoms etc. The issue of wealth preservation and power conservatism is one that has shaped the political landscape since as long as there has been a political landscape.

This power is also the driving force behind the US tax code and its implementation, which is truly unbelievable.

Also the tax arrangements between countries have been swayed by the needs wants of the planet's richest. Preservation of wealth and conservation of power across the globe, all with the explicit compliance of the world's politicians...

Holy crap I almost sound like a socialist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 10, 2014, 07:59:30 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 10, 2014, 07:49:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 06:02:11 PM

BTW....what delights me more than anything is that the Democrats have been
pulling this shit for decades.....now that the Republicans are beating them at their own game they are apoplectic with righteous indignation.  Long may it continue




One of the places that we see that in practice (if we care to look) is the ever escalating influence of money in the election process.  Given the positions taken on the key issues by certain parties at the time the time the money was being brought into the process the Republican's have been the party funded by those big business interests, oil, gas, tobacco, big retailers, telecoms etc. The issue of wealth preservation and power conservatism is one that has shaped the political landscape since as long as there has been a political landscape.



How big does a business have to be before it is considered "big" business ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2014, 08:03:24 PM
How are the GOP going to attract more female and latino voters in 2016 ? Mid terms will mean nothing if they lose 3 in a row.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 10, 2014, 08:08:01 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 10, 2014, 07:59:30 PM

How big does a business have to be before it is considered "big" business ?

As a guide if an entity has more than $500M in cash or cash equivalents on hand then it usually qualifies as "wealthy" or if it is a business, then it could be viewed a big business..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2014, 08:15:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2014, 08:03:24 PM
How are the GOP going to attract more female and latino voters in 2016 ? Mid terms will mean nothing if they lose 3 in a row.

great question.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-the-womens-vote-failed-save-the-democrats


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/11/10/5-takeaways-about-the-2014-latino-vote/


I would tend to agree with both of these interpretations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 10, 2014, 08:28:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 10, 2014, 08:08:01 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 10, 2014, 07:59:30 PM

How big does a business have to be before it is considered "big" business ?

As a guide if an entity has more than $500M in cash or cash equivalents on hand then it usually qualifies as "wealthy" or if it is a business, then it could be viewed a big business..

Thanks.

If a tech business with, say,  $400 million in cash at hand,  were to leverage the fact that it provides jobs in a small country to steer more government funding toward graduate research in their field of interest ...would that be a "good" thing or a "bad" thing ?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2014, 08:40:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 06:02:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2014, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 04:50:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
No different to the MSM whitewashing the Rev Wright story in order to get Obama elected.  Media both left and right is extremely biased and long ago gave up reporting news. They view their role as creating he narrative and framing the paradigm for whatever agenda they have

Bollocks, and your they're-both-equally-as-bad bullshit isn't fooling anyone.

Yes you Nazi-loving pedo Whitey!




Correction: May in fact be someone else.
How do you know when your losing an argument.....you start insulting people


BTW....what delights me more than anything is that the Democrats have been
pulling this shit for decades.....now that the Republicans are beating them at their own game they are apoplectic with righteous indignation.  Long may it continue


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You fell for it completely. Just as J70 suggested.

Did you not see my correction?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 10, 2014, 08:54:57 PM
As a centrist democrat and Obama supporter I would vehemently disagree with many of Whitey's positions however it is sad that the usual cabal of US haters are taking their ire out on him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 10, 2014, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2014, 08:03:24 PM
How are the GOP going to attract more female and latino voters in 2016 ? Mid terms will mean nothing if they lose 3 in a row.

good question. One thing they will probably do to attract female voters is avoid making comments like these on the internet...

Comments From mondoweiss.com
Quoteseafoid says:   

March 3, 2014 at 4:42 pm   


I bet Scarlett has her own mikvah to get rid of all those menstrual impurities.

seafoid says:   

March 3, 2014 at 12:47 pm   


Did Scarlett strip down to her undies and lick a map of Israel at AIPAC ? Or am I confusing her with Miley? I often get my slappers mixed up .
(background: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/scarlet-johansson-has-no-regrets-quitting-oxfam-for-sodastream-ad-campaign-9195715.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/scarlet-johansson-has-no-regrets-quitting-oxfam-for-sodastream-ad-campaign-9195715.html))


its a bitch when the face one presents on one forum contradicts what one says on another forum isn't it ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2014, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2014, 08:03:24 PM
How are the GOP going to attract more female and latino voters in 2016 ? Mid terms will mean nothing if they lose 3 in a row.

Enact immigration reform.

And then we woke up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:22:38 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 10, 2014, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2014, 08:03:24 PM
How are the GOP going to attract more female and latino voters in 2016 ? Mid terms will mean nothing if they lose 3 in a row.

good question. One thing they will probably do to attract female voters is avoid making comments like these on the internet...

Comments From mondoweiss.com
Quoteseafoid says:   

March 3, 2014 at 4:42 pm   


I bet Scarlett has her own mikvah to get rid of all those menstrual impurities.

seafoid says:   

March 3, 2014 at 12:47 pm   


Did Scarlett strip down to her undies and lick a map of Israel at AIPAC ? Or am I confusing her with Miley? I often get my slappers mixed up .
(background: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/scarlet-johansson-has-no-regrets-quitting-oxfam-for-sodastream-ad-campaign-9195715.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/scarlet-johansson-has-no-regrets-quitting-oxfam-for-sodastream-ad-campaign-9195715.html))


its a bitch when the face one presents on one forum contradicts what one says on another forum isn't it ?

Silence.

Apparently Women voters only count when they are not Jewish sympathizing harridans that go against a certain world view.

I wonder what Muppets view is on this ? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2014, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2014, 08:40:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 06:02:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2014, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 04:50:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
No different to the MSM whitewashing the Rev Wright story in order to get Obama elected.  Media both left and right is extremely biased and long ago gave up reporting news. They view their role as creating he narrative and framing the paradigm for whatever agenda they have

Bollocks, and your they're-both-equally-as-bad bullshit isn't fooling anyone.

Yes you Nazi-loving pedo Whitey!




Correction: May in fact be someone else.
How do you know when your losing an argument.....you start insulting people


BTW....what delights me more than anything is that the Democrats have been
pulling this shit for decades.....now that the Republicans are beating them at their own game they are apoplectic with righteous indignation.  Long may it continue


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You fell for it completely. Just as J70 suggested.

Did you not see my correction?  ;D ;D ;D

LOL....I thought you had gone completely off the deep end.

I was on a mobile phone yesterday and you'd need an atomic microscope to be able to read that red writing at the bottom of your post
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 01:06:10 PM
Whitey

Who do you think the GOP will pick to go in 2016?
If they could silence the tea party crowd they might have a chance but they'll have
to have some way of getting women and Latinos on board. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2014, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 01:06:10 PM
Whitey

Who do you think the GOP will pick to go in 2016?
If they could silence the tea party crowd they might have a chance but they'll have
to have some way of getting women and Latinos on board.

Thats a hard one....because candidates from both parties need to go to the fringes to get through their primaries. 

(Just a couple of weeks ago at a joint Elizabeth Warren event, Hillary said that "corporations didn't create jobs"-she immediately backtracked, but the Republicans are already using it to define her)

Personally, I think a Republican Governor from a Blue State is the perfect candidate. They are experts at dealmaking, negotiation and compromise. They cant hold extreme views on social issues because they would be unelectable to their constituents. 

(Most people don't realize that as Governor of MA, Mitt Romney worked with Ted Kennedy to bring in universal healthcare at the state level)

That being said, I would love to see Chris Christie run, but I don't know if he's right wing enough to get through the primary...and telling a heckler to sit down and shut up last week definitely raised some eyebrows.

Senators have a difficult time as candidates because they have a voting record. All types of stuff can be pinned on you thats completely unfair.  Thats where most of the attack ads come from, and both sides do it.

(Many of the proposed bills never even make it out of committee and never even have a chance of making it to a vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 11, 2014, 01:43:02 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.

It sure is.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AhNowRef on November 11, 2014, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.

Mikey, Im not really aware of where it originates from but you do seem to have an unhealthy hard on for yer man Seafoid ... what gives? .. and is it reciprocated?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 11, 2014, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 01:24:27 PM

Personally, I think a Republican Governor from a Blue State is the perfect candidate. They are experts at dealmaking, negotiation and compromise. They cant hold extreme views on social issues because they would be unelectable to their constituents. 

(Most people don't realize that as Governor of MA, Mitt Romney worked with Ted Kennedy to bring in universal healthcare at the state level)

That being said, I would love to see Chris Christie run, but I don't know if he's right wing enough to get through the primary...and telling a heckler to sit down and shut up last week definitely raised some eyebrows.


Agreed Whitey. Christie is one smart fecker. He is bullish to the point of being blunt though and is likely to offend. Also loyalty may be his only crime :-) He is definitely playing the long game towards a run at some point. He has made decisions in NJ on the basis that, despite the popularity of one route in NJ, he has gone the other as it is more likely to help establish his credentials on the National stage.

Be interesting to see how Bridge gate would be handled in any campaign...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on November 11, 2014, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.

Mikey, Im not really aware of where it originates from but you do seem to have an unhealthy hard on for yer man Seafoid ... what gives? .. and is it reciprocated?

I dunno, I suppose I view him the same way that you view T. Fearon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 01:06:10 PM
Whitey

Who do you think the GOP will pick to go in 2016?
If they could silence the tea party crowd they might have a chance but they'll have
to have some way of getting women and Latinos on board.

Thats a hard one....because candidates from both parties need to go to the fringes to get through their primaries. 

(Just a couple of weeks ago at a joint Elizabeth Warren event, Hillary said that "corporations didn't create jobs"-she immediately backtracked, but the Republicans are already using it to define her)

Personally, I think a Republican Governor from a Blue State is the perfect candidate. They are experts at dealmaking, negotiation and compromise. They cant hold extreme views on social issues because they would be unelectable to their constituents. 

(Most people don't realize that as Governor of MA, Mitt Romney worked with Ted Kennedy to bring in universal healthcare at the state level)

That being said, I would love to see Chris Christie run, but I don't know if he's right wing enough to get through the primary...and telling a heckler to sit down and shut up last week definitely raised some eyebrows.

Senators have a difficult time as candidates because they have a voting record. All types of stuff can be pinned on you thats completely unfair.  Thats where most of the attack ads come from, and both sides do it.

(Many of the proposed bills never even make it out of committee and never even have a chance of making it to a vote
I thought Christie would have been the best candidate but he seems to have gone back since the scandal over that bridge traffic. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 02:07:39 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on November 11, 2014, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.

Mikey, Im not really aware of where it originates from but you do seem to have an unhealthy hard on for yer man Seafoid ... what gives? .. and is it reciprocated?
Unfortunately not. He reminds me of Adele (with Tourettes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLQl3WQQoQ0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 02:18:51 PM
I can't see Christie getting the Republican nomination. If nothing else, this image should kill his campaign stone dead:

(http://images.politico.com/global/2012/10/121031_obama_christie_ap_605.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 02:26:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 02:07:39 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on November 11, 2014, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.

Mikey, Im not really aware of where it originates from but you do seem to have an unhealthy hard on for yer man Seafoid ... what gives? .. and is it reciprocated?
Unfortunately not. He reminds me of Adele (with Tourettes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLQl3WQQoQ0

Do you reckon she has had her own mikvah as well Seafoid ?  I know you tend to get your "slappers mixed up" so take some time to think about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AhNowRef on November 11, 2014, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on November 11, 2014, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.

Mikey, Im not really aware of where it originates from but you do seem to have an unhealthy hard on for yer man Seafoid ... what gives? .. and is it reciprocated?

I dunno, I suppose I view him the same way that you view T. Fearon.

Majorly different reasons I would imagine unless he stands up for the same nonsense Fearon does, but I dont think thats the case !! ... and I certainly don't follow Fearon around thank god !! ..

anyway, none of my business really .. just wondering what it was !!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 02:34:02 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on November 11, 2014, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on November 11, 2014, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.

Mikey, Im not really aware of where it originates from but you do seem to have an unhealthy hard on for yer man Seafoid ... what gives? .. and is it reciprocated?

I dunno, I suppose I view him the same way that you view T. Fearon.

Majorly different reasons I would imagine unless he stands up for the same nonsense Fearon does, but I dont think thats the case !! ... and I certainly don't follow Fearon around thank god !! ..

anyway, none of my business really .. just wondering what it was !!
I just PMd him asking to stick to PMs if he wants to make a point, as discussed elsewhere.
I don't think anyone else is interested in his opinions of me. 
I certainly am not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2014, 02:44:14 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 02:18:51 PM
I can't see Christie getting the Republican nomination. If nothing else, this image should kill his campaign stone dead:

(http://images.politico.com/global/2012/10/121031_obama_christie_ap_605.jpg)

That's exactly the type of candidate we need and the fvckwit in the Tea Party are diminishing in power by the day

Christie raised a $hit load of money and campaigned vigorously during this last election as head of the Republican Governors association. He helped elect Republican governors in the bluest of blue states-Massachusetts, Illinois and Maryland and has a lot of favors to now call in

http://m.wbaltv.com/politics/chris-christie-to-gov-omalley-clear-out-your-office/29498320

From what I can tell "Bridgegate" is a non issue-even though certain elements in the media make it out to be his Waterloo. It's been investigated and so far they haven't been able to link him to any of it
If anything it shows how desperate his detractors are if this is all they have to use against him

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 02:58:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 02:44:14 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 02:18:51 PM
I can't see Christie getting the Republican nomination. If nothing else, this image should kill his campaign stone dead:

(http://images.politico.com/global/2012/10/121031_obama_christie_ap_605.jpg)

That's exactly the type of candidate we need and the fvckwit in the Tea Party are diminishing in power by the day

Christie raised a $hit load of money and campaigned vigorously during this last election as head of the Republican Governors association. He helped elect Republican governors in the bluest of blue states-Massachusetts, Illinois and Maryland and has a lot of favors to now call in

http://m.wbaltv.com/politics/chris-christie-to-gov-omalley-clear-out-your-office/29498320

From what I can tell "Bridgegate" is a non issue-even though certain elements in the media make it out to be his Waterloo. It's been investigated and so far they haven't been able to link him to any of it
If anything it shows how desperate his detractors are if this is all they have to use against him
And they need someone who can appeal to the 20% of undecideds in the centre
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:10:52 PM
They probably will lose. But they will maintain the purity of the volk, and that's the main thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

Bet your life there are.....the Republicans wont get caught flat footed again.

I can only imagine what was said at some of Obamas close door fundraisers-LOL (but we will never know)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2014, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

Bet your life there are.....the Republicans wont get caught flat footed again.

I can only imagine what was said at some of Obamas close door fundraisers-LOL (but we will never know)

Did he not get into trouble for the "cling to guns and religion" comment back in 2008? Did the right wing not flog that to death?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2014, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 01:06:10 PM
Whitey

Who do you think the GOP will pick to go in 2016?
If they could silence the tea party crowd they might have a chance but they'll have
to have some way of getting women and Latinos on board.

Thats a hard one....because candidates from both parties need to go to the fringes to get through their primaries. 

(Just a couple of weeks ago at a joint Elizabeth Warren event, Hillary said that "corporations didn't create jobs"-she immediately backtracked, but the Republicans are already using it to define her)

Lets be honest: Who is a slip of the tongue going to convince that already isn't opposed to the candidate? Hillary Clinton very obviously doesn't believe that corporations don't create jobs. It was like the Obama "you didn't build that" comment in 2012. Obviously he mangled what he was saying, but what he was saying was bleeding obvious to any honest listener when taken in context i.e. business cannot succeed without the wider society and infrastructure that we all pay for.

I despise the electioneering that goes on in the US, because so much of it is based on taking statements out of context and outright lies about candidates. The fact that there is a fact-checking industry surrounding political statements tells you all you need to know about the calibre of people who get involved in politics.

Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 01:24:27 PM
Personally, I think a Republican Governor from a Blue State is the perfect candidate. They are experts at dealmaking, negotiation and compromise. They cant hold extreme views on social issues because they would be unelectable to their constituents. 

(Most people don't realize that as Governor of MA, Mitt Romney worked with Ted Kennedy to bring in universal healthcare at the state level)

That being said, I would love to see Chris Christie run, but I don't know if he's right wing enough to get through the primary...and telling a heckler to sit down and shut up last week definitely raised some eyebrows.

Senators have a difficult time as candidates because they have a voting record. All types of stuff can be pinned on you thats completely unfair.  Thats where most of the attack ads come from, and both sides do it.

(Many of the proposed bills never even make it out of committee and never even have a chance of making it to a vote

I could live with Christie, sans the grandstanding, but he hasn't a hope.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2014, 08:12:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 02:44:14 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 02:18:51 PM
I can't see Christie getting the Republican nomination. If nothing else, this image should kill his campaign stone dead:

(http://images.politico.com/global/2012/10/121031_obama_christie_ap_605.jpg)

That's exactly the type of candidate we need and the fvckwit in the Tea Party are diminishing in power by the day

Christie raised a $hit load of money and campaigned vigorously during this last election as head of the Republican Governors association. He helped elect Republican governors in the bluest of blue states-Massachusetts, Illinois and Maryland and has a lot of favors to now call in

http://m.wbaltv.com/politics/chris-christie-to-gov-omalley-clear-out-your-office/29498320

From what I can tell "Bridgegate" is a non issue-even though certain elements in the media make it out to be his Waterloo. It's been investigated and so far they haven't been able to link him to any of it
If anything it shows how desperate his detractors are if this is all they have to use against him

I don't believe for a second that his hands are clean on the GWB scandal. Do you really believe his closest assistants were up to their ears in it and he knew nothing? ;D

Of course, nothing will be ever be proven though.

It will be interesting to see how those to took the fall end up.

Another fine episode in NJ politics!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2014, 08:13:52 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.

They said that after McCain in 2008! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

Bet your life there are.....the Republicans wont get caught flat footed again.

I can only imagine what was said at some of Obamas close door fundraisers-LOL (but we will never know)

Did he not get into trouble for the "cling to guns and religion" comment back in 2008? Did the right wing not flog that to death?

Actually he said it during the primaries so he got hammered by Hillary Clinton and the other Democratic candidates (but Im sure the Republicans jumped on in due course)

Big difference between the two events is that Obamas statements were made during an event that was being openly recorded by numerous parties. He just let his guard down

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/us/politics/14web-seelye.html?pagewanted=all

If thats what Obama was prepared to say in Public while being recorded, I can only imagine what he was saying behind closed doors when no one was recording

Romney's statements on the other hand, were captured by a waiter who hid a recording device in a potted plant during an event that was a "closed mic" fundraiser.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 09:06:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 08:13:52 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.

They said that after McCain in 2008! ;D

Heh. Fair point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2014, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

Bet your life there are.....the Republicans wont get caught flat footed again.

I can only imagine what was said at some of Obamas close door fundraisers-LOL (but we will never know)

Did he not get into trouble for the "cling to guns and religion" comment back in 2008? Did the right wing not flog that to death?

Actually he said it during the primaries so he got hammered by Hillary Clinton and the other Democratic candidates (but Im sure the Republicans jumped on in due course)

Big difference between the two events is that Obamas statements were made during an event that was being openly recorded by numerous parties. He just let his guard down

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/us/politics/14web-seelye.html?pagewanted=all

If thats what Obama was prepared to say in Public while being recorded, I can only imagine what he was saying behind closed doors when no one was recording

Romney's statements on the other hand, were captured by a waiter who hid a recording device in a potted plant during an event that was a "closed mic" fundraiser.

In this day and age, any politician (or public speaker of any kind) who doesn't assume they may be recorded is an idiot, invited guests only,  or not.

Obama's point in that case was a fair one, I thought. Obviously too honest for the ridiculous "gotcha" political commentary industry, but true nonetheless.  The Republicans regularly use those issues as wedge issues to distract voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

Bet your life there are.....the Republicans wont get caught flat footed again.

I can only imagine what was said at some of Obamas close door fundraisers-LOL (but we will never know)

Did he not get into trouble for the "cling to guns and religion" comment back in 2008? Did the right wing not flog that to death?

Actually he said it during the primaries so he got hammered by Hillary Clinton and the other Democratic candidates (but Im sure the Republicans jumped on in due course)

Big difference between the two events is that Obamas statements were made during an event that was being openly recorded by numerous parties. He just let his guard down

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/us/politics/14web-seelye.html?pagewanted=all

If thats what Obama was prepared to say in Public while being recorded, I can only imagine what he was saying behind closed doors when no one was recording

Romney's statements on the other hand, were captured by a waiter who hid a recording device in a potted plant during an event that was a "closed mic" fundraiser.

In this day and age, any politician (or public speaker of any kind) who doesn't assume they may be recorded is an idiot, invited guests only,  or not.

Obama's point in that case was a fair one, I thought. Obviously too honest for the ridiculous "gotcha" political commentary industry, but true nonetheless.  The Republicans regularly use those issues as wedge issues to distract voters.

Spot on.....exactly the same way the Democrats have used the "War on women" to pander to their low information base
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.

What do you make of this? LOL.

(And Democrats wonder why the Republicans don't trust the President)

http://dailysignal.com/2014/11/09/caught-camera-obamacare-architect-admits-deceiving-americans-pass-law/



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 12:06:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
I have to laugh at Sheehy in fairness.

He has posted a few times now that he is not only a Democrat, but actually an Obama supporter!  :D :D :D :D

Hilarious stuff.

yes, I voted for Obama and would disagree with Whitey's position on Universal healthcare for example. However, unlike people like you I don't hold republicans in contempt just because I disagree with some of their positions.

I also don't see why Whitey needs to explain the position of the GOP on women voters to someone who makes disgusting , misogynistic comments about womens menstrual cycles....do you ?

The hypocrisy is beyond parody at this stage.

What do you make of this? LOL.

(And Democrats wonder why the Republicans don't trust the President)

http://dailysignal.com/2014/11/09/caught-camera-obamacare-architect-admits-deceiving-americans-pass-law/

Are you serious?

Lack of transparency = deception!

Deception is against the law here (don't know about the US) but a lack of transparency isn't. For lack of transparency see the previous post regarding the Whitewater attorney.

And you don't understand insurance do you? Healthy people pay for sick people, that's the way it works.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
Did you watch the clip?

The bill was specifically written in a "tortured" manner (his words, not mine) so as to hide its true costs.

I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 12, 2014, 12:38:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
Did you watch the clip?

The bill was specifically written in a "tortured" manner (his words, not mine) so as to hide its true costs.

I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.
In what country do you work?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 12:50:46 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 12, 2014, 12:38:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
Did you watch the clip?

The bill was specifically written in a "tortured" manner (his words, not mine) so as to hide its true costs.

I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.
In what country do you work?

What planet more likely.

And I did watch the clip. I see a fool boasting about his own self-importance.

And show me the law that puts you in jail for 10 years for writing something in a 'tortured' manner or indeed to hide true costs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 01:06:17 PM
I wonder how many years should be given to the chap at the Heritage Foundation (owners of the Daily Signal (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-05-08/daily-signal-heritage-foundation-news-site-seeks-mainstream-impact)) who claimed that Paul Ryan's budget would cause such a burst in growth that unemployment would fall to 2.8%, only to delete the claim (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/heritage-foundation-removes-unemployment-data-from-budget-study) when everyone pointed out that it was bullshit. Gee, deleting stories and pretending they never happened. Where have we seen that before (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/nov/10/breitbart/breitbart-gets-wrong-loretta-lynch-whitewater-clai/)?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2014, 02:42:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

Bet your life there are.....the Republicans wont get caught flat footed again.

I can only imagine what was said at some of Obamas close door fundraisers-LOL (but we will never know)

Did he not get into trouble for the "cling to guns and religion" comment back in 2008? Did the right wing not flog that to death?

Actually he said it during the primaries so he got hammered by Hillary Clinton and the other Democratic candidates (but Im sure the Republicans jumped on in due course)

Big difference between the two events is that Obamas statements were made during an event that was being openly recorded by numerous parties. He just let his guard down

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/us/politics/14web-seelye.html?pagewanted=all

If thats what Obama was prepared to say in Public while being recorded, I can only imagine what he was saying behind closed doors when no one was recording

Romney's statements on the other hand, were captured by a waiter who hid a recording device in a potted plant during an event that was a "closed mic" fundraiser.

In this day and age, any politician (or public speaker of any kind) who doesn't assume they may be recorded is an idiot, invited guests only,  or not.

Obama's point in that case was a fair one, I thought. Obviously too honest for the ridiculous "gotcha" political commentary industry, but true nonetheless.  The Republicans regularly use those issues as wedge issues to distract voters.

Spot on.....exactly the same way the Democrats have used the "War on women" to pander to their low information base

To a point,  but not exactly equivalent.  E.g. the GOP used gay marriage referendums to great effect in 2004 to turn out the evangelicals, but let's face it, how exactly does gay people getting married affect the actual lives of anyone beyond the gay people themselves?  And the fictitious " War on christians"? (Fox should be starting any day now on their annual Christmas "outrages") The non-existent threat to gun ownership rights?

On the other hand,  advocating that health insurance cover contraception or that women be trusted to make their own decisions on abortions, without invasive procedures or emotional blackmail is acting on real concerns for women.  Disagree with abortion or not, those are issues that actually affect woman. Another example -it's interesting that of the 5 Republicans who voted for the Lilly Ledbetter Act in the Senate, 4 were woman, and the 5th later switched to the Dems.

Of course,  I am sure Democrats also seize any opportunity to distract their potential voters from the real issues. Thats what politicians do. Just don't agree on THOSE particular issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 03:03:26 PM
A simpler way of looking at how the narrative in American politics is laden with false equivalences is with regards to tackling the deficit. Ever since 2008, the narrative has been that the Democrats want to reduce the deficit by increasing taxes and the Republicans want to do it by reducing spending and oh if only some way could be found to find a middle ground between the two. But that middle ground was there all along. It was the policy of the Democrats to have a combination of tax increases and spending cuts while the Republicans fought tooth and nail to prevent anything that had even the whiff of a tax increase. There simply is no possibility of establishing a 'middle ground' when the Republicans refuse to engage in any horse trading. And while I make no apologies for viewing the policies of the GOP with contempt, I reserve my greatest disdain for the media who refuse to place the blame for gridlock where it belongs out of some misplaced notion of 'balance'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2014, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 03:03:26 PM
A simpler way of looking at how the narrative in American politics is laden with false equivalences is with regards to tackling the deficit. Ever since 2008, the narrative has been that the Democrats want to reduce the deficit by increasing taxes and the Republicans want to do it by reducing spending and oh if only some way could be found to find a middle ground between the two. But that middle ground was there all along. It was the policy of the Democrats to have a combination of tax increases and spending cuts while the Republicans fought tooth and nail to prevent anything that had even the whiff of a tax increase. There simply is no possibility of establishing a 'middle ground' when the Republicans refuse to engage in any horse trading. And while I make no apologies for viewing the policies of the GOP with contempt, I reserve my greatest disdain for the media who refuse to place the blame for gridlock where it belongs out of some misplaced notion of 'balance'.

Remember in the primary debates last time out when no Republican would agree to raise taxes by one dollar for every ten in cuts?!!!

(Huntsman, god bless his sane little heart, might have been an exception)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 03:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2014, 03:09:17 PM
Remember in the primary debates last time out when no Republican would agree to raise taxes by one dollar for every ten in cuts?!!!

(Huntsman, god bless his sane little heart, might have been an exception)

Grover Norquist was hovering over each and every one of them like the ghost of Banquo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 03:24:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2014, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 03:03:26 PM
A simpler way of looking at how the narrative in American politics is laden with false equivalences is with regards to tackling the deficit. Ever since 2008, the narrative has been that the Democrats want to reduce the deficit by increasing taxes and the Republicans want to do it by reducing spending and oh if only some way could be found to find a middle ground between the two. But that middle ground was there all along. It was the policy of the Democrats to have a combination of tax increases and spending cuts while the Republicans fought tooth and nail to prevent anything that had even the whiff of a tax increase. There simply is no possibility of establishing a 'middle ground' when the Republicans refuse to engage in any horse trading. And while I make no apologies for viewing the policies of the GOP with contempt, I reserve my greatest disdain for the media who refuse to place the blame for gridlock where it belongs out of some misplaced notion of 'balance'.

Remember in the primary debates last time out when no Republican would agree to raise taxes by one dollar for every ten in cuts?!!!

(Huntsman, god bless his sane little heart, might have been an exception)

Better than that, Obama and the Republicans agreed to lower taxes and increase spending. This, they considered, was good for everyone. They don't pay back any of their debt, ever. They just roll it over. When that ship comes in.....wow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2014, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 03:24:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2014, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 03:03:26 PM
A simpler way of looking at how the narrative in American politics is laden with false equivalences is with regards to tackling the deficit. Ever since 2008, the narrative has been that the Democrats want to reduce the deficit by increasing taxes and the Republicans want to do it by reducing spending and oh if only some way could be found to find a middle ground between the two. But that middle ground was there all along. It was the policy of the Democrats to have a combination of tax increases and spending cuts while the Republicans fought tooth and nail to prevent anything that had even the whiff of a tax increase. There simply is no possibility of establishing a 'middle ground' when the Republicans refuse to engage in any horse trading. And while I make no apologies for viewing the policies of the GOP with contempt, I reserve my greatest disdain for the media who refuse to place the blame for gridlock where it belongs out of some misplaced notion of 'balance'.

Better than that, Obama and the Republicans agreed to lower taxes and increase spending. This, they considered, was good for everyone. They don't pay back any of their debt, ever. They just roll it over. When that ship comes in.....wow.

Remember in the primary debates last time out when no Republican would agree to raise taxes by one dollar for every ten in cuts?!!!

(Huntsman, god bless his sane little heart, might have been an exception)

Both parties are beholden to the people who fund them- the plutocrats - who don't fund politics out of a sense of duty. They get rewarded politically.  Since citizens united there is no limit to how much the rich can pump into politics.
You end up with people like Elizabeth Warren who won't say anything against Israel.
Or Mary Landrieu who won't say anything against oil and gas.
The big question is can the GOP plutocrats come up with a candidate who can interact with reality.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 03:56:04 PM
I wouldn't delude myself that the Democrats are not in hock to big business, but perfect is the enemy of good. It is not a choice between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Those who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2014, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 03:56:04 PM
I wouldn't delude myself that the Democrats are not in hock to big business, but perfect is the enemy of good. It is not a choice between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Those who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.

The whole system is rotten. I don't think the Dems are a shadow of what they were pre Reagan. Carter was the last decent president. The last Keynesian one as well.

This is a good read on the cancerous influence of the ultra rich on US democracy

http://www.kennys.ie/wealth-and-democracy.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:08:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 12:50:46 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 12, 2014, 12:38:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
Did you watch the clip?

The bill was specifically written in a "tortured" manner (his words, not mine) so as to hide its true costs.

I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.
In what country do you work?

What planet more likely.

And I did watch the clip. I see a fool boasting about his own self-importance.

And show me the law that puts you in jail for 10 years for writing something in a 'tortured' manner or indeed to hide true costs.

I'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties.  Whether they can get a conviction, thats another issue, but I would not like to be in his shoes right now. This beatdown is going to be epic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:12:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:08:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 12:50:46 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 12, 2014, 12:38:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
Did you watch the clip?

The bill was specifically written in a "tortured" manner (his words, not mine) so as to hide its true costs.

I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.
In what country do you work?

What planet more likely.

And I did watch the clip. I see a fool boasting about his own self-importance.

And show me the law that puts you in jail for 10 years for writing something in a 'tortured' manner or indeed to hide true costs.

I'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties.  Whether they can get a conviction, thats another issue, but I would not like to be in his shoes right now. This beatdown is going to be epic

If you live in tabloid land.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2014, 07:13:45 PM
There was a story there a while ago about a former governor of Virginia who had racked up a load of debt and had no money to buy his wife a dress for his inauguration. She found a Denis O Brien type to fund it and all hell broke lose afterwards. 

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303802904579335020828498200
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:14:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2014, 02:42:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

Bet your life there are.....the Republicans wont get caught flat footed again.

I can only imagine what was said at some of Obamas close door fundraisers-LOL (but we will never know)

Did he not get into trouble for the "cling to guns and religion" comment back in 2008? Did the right wing not flog that to death?

Actually he said it during the primaries so he got hammered by Hillary Clinton and the other Democratic candidates (but Im sure the Republicans jumped on in due course)

Big difference between the two events is that Obamas statements were made during an event that was being openly recorded by numerous parties. He just let his guard down

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/us/politics/14web-seelye.html?pagewanted=all

If thats what Obama was prepared to say in Public while being recorded, I can only imagine what he was saying behind closed doors when no one was recording

Romney's statements on the other hand, were captured by a waiter who hid a recording device in a potted plant during an event that was a "closed mic" fundraiser.

In this day and age, any politician (or public speaker of any kind) who doesn't assume they may be recorded is an idiot, invited guests only,  or not.

Obama's point in that case was a fair one, I thought. Obviously too honest for the ridiculous "gotcha" political commentary industry, but true nonetheless.  The Republicans regularly use those issues as wedge issues to distract voters.

Spot on.....exactly the same way the Democrats have used the "War on women" to pander to their low information base

To a point,  but not exactly equivalent.  E.g. the GOP used gay marriage referendums to great effect in 2004 to turn out the evangelicals, but let's face it, how exactly does gay people getting married affect the actual lives of anyone beyond the gay people themselves?  And the fictitious " War on christians"? (Fox should be starting any day now on their annual Christmas "outrages") The non-existent threat to gun ownership rights?

On the other hand,  advocating that health insurance cover contraception or that women be trusted to make their own decisions on abortions, without invasive procedures or emotional blackmail is acting on real concerns for women.  Disagree with abortion or not, those are issues that actually affect woman. Another example -it's interesting that of the 5 Republicans who voted for the Lilly Ledbetter Act in the Senate, 4 were woman, and the 5th later switched to the Dems.

Of course,  I am sure Democrats also seize any opportunity to distract their potential voters from the real issues. Thats what politicians do. Just don't agree on THOSE particular issues.

Thats fair.  Did you see that Alan Dershowitz, the very far left Harvard Law professor, sided with Hobby Lobby in their supreme court battle over. Kinda blew a hole in the whole War on Women rhetoric (on that one aspect anyway)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
QuoteI'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties

For a lack of transparency and for calling voters stupid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But go on.

Let's start with the perjury. Explain how he is guilty of perjury.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
QuoteI'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties

For a lack of transparency and for calling voters stupid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But go on.

Let's start with the perjury. Explain how he is guilty of perjury.
[/quoti

Its very complicated and I'm not a legal expert, but what I heard from a credible source,  is that he testified before a congressional committee at least once when they were trying to pass the law.

Theres an army of attorneys currently pouring over every word of his testimony to see if anything he said then, contradicts what has come out on the tape.

They will also suponea every email he ever sent or received to see if they can pin him with conspiracy.

My guess is that someone as sloppy as him has left a trail of breadcrumbs behind him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2014, 07:52:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:14:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2014, 02:42:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

Bet your life there are.....the Republicans wont get caught flat footed again.

I can only imagine what was said at some of Obamas close door fundraisers-LOL (but we will never know)

Did he not get into trouble for the "cling to guns and religion" comment back in 2008? Did the right wing not flog that to death?

Actually he said it during the primaries so he got hammered by Hillary Clinton and the other Democratic candidates (but Im sure the Republicans jumped on in due course)

Big difference between the two events is that Obamas statements were made during an event that was being openly recorded by numerous parties. He just let his guard down

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/us/politics/14web-seelye.html?pagewanted=all

If thats what Obama was prepared to say in Public while being recorded, I can only imagine what he was saying behind closed doors when no one was recording

Romney's statements on the other hand, were captured by a waiter who hid a recording device in a potted plant during an event that was a "closed mic" fundraiser.

In this day and age, any politician (or public speaker of any kind) who doesn't assume they may be recorded is an idiot, invited guests only,  or not.

Obama's point in that case was a fair one, I thought. Obviously too honest for the ridiculous "gotcha" political commentary industry, but true nonetheless.  The Republicans regularly use those issues as wedge issues to distract voters.

Spot on.....exactly the same way the Democrats have used the "War on women" to pander to their low information base

To a point,  but not exactly equivalent.  E.g. the GOP used gay marriage referendums to great effect in 2004 to turn out the evangelicals, but let's face it, how exactly does gay people getting married affect the actual lives of anyone beyond the gay people themselves?  And the fictitious " War on christians"? (Fox should be starting any day now on their annual Christmas "outrages") The non-existent threat to gun ownership rights?

On the other hand,  advocating that health insurance cover contraception or that women be trusted to make their own decisions on abortions, without invasive procedures or emotional blackmail is acting on real concerns for women.  Disagree with abortion or not, those are issues that actually affect woman. Another example -it's interesting that of the 5 Republicans who voted for the Lilly Ledbetter Act in the Senate, 4 were woman, and the 5th later switched to the Dems.

Of course,  I am sure Democrats also seize any opportunity to distract their potential voters from the real issues. Thats what politicians do. Just don't agree on THOSE particular issues.

Thats fair.  Did you see that Alan Dershowitz, the very far left Harvard Law professor, sided with Hobby Lobby in their supreme court battle over. Kinda blew a hole in the whole War on Women rhetoric (on that one aspect anyway)

He's also a very determined defender of Israel!

My problem with Hobby Lobby is where do you draw the line. If they can drop contraception from their health plan, is it ok for someone else to drop childhood vaccines, or if it is only religious exemptions, blood transfusions for a Jehovah's Witness employer.  Say someone like Tom Cruise doesn't believe in psychiatry,  should we not cover that?

Be careful what you wish for!

BTW, why was Dershowitz on their side? Legal technicality or idealogical.

I don't think one dissenter is enough to discredit anything however!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:59:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2014, 07:52:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:14:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2014, 02:42:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2014, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 03:01:43 PM
The electability thing was what spurred the Republicans to go for Romney. You can be sure the base - they're the ones who actually vote in GOP primaries - are not going to allow themselves to be suckered into that kind of choice again.
But then they'll lose again. An orthodox Republican who ticks all the boxes with the Tea Party will get slaughtered.
And they don't have that many moderates left.   

There are 300 people on each side working to find videos like this to sink the other side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

Bet your life there are.....the Republicans wont get caught flat footed again.

I can only imagine what was said at some of Obamas close door fundraisers-LOL (but we will never know)

Did he not get into trouble for the "cling to guns and religion" comment back in 2008? Did the right wing not flog that to death?

Actually he said it during the primaries so he got hammered by Hillary Clinton and the other Democratic candidates (but Im sure the Republicans jumped on in due course)

Big difference between the two events is that Obamas statements were made during an event that was being openly recorded by numerous parties. He just let his guard down

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/us/politics/14web-seelye.html?pagewanted=all

If thats what Obama was prepared to say in Public while being recorded, I can only imagine what he was saying behind closed doors when no one was recording

Romney's statements on the other hand, were captured by a waiter who hid a recording device in a potted plant during an event that was a "closed mic" fundraiser.

In this day and age, any politician (or public speaker of any kind) who doesn't assume they may be recorded is an idiot, invited guests only,  or not.

Obama's point in that case was a fair one, I thought. Obviously too honest for the ridiculous "gotcha" political commentary industry, but true nonetheless.  The Republicans regularly use those issues as wedge issues to distract voters.

Spot on.....exactly the same way the Democrats have used the "War on women" to pander to their low information base

To a point,  but not exactly equivalent.  E.g. the GOP used gay marriage referendums to great effect in 2004 to turn out the evangelicals, but let's face it, how exactly does gay people getting married affect the actual lives of anyone beyond the gay people themselves?  And the fictitious " War on christians"? (Fox should be starting any day now on their annual Christmas "outrages") The non-existent threat to gun ownership rights?

On the other hand,  advocating that health insurance cover contraception or that women be trusted to make their own decisions on abortions, without invasive procedures or emotional blackmail is acting on real concerns for women.  Disagree with abortion or not, those are issues that actually affect woman. Another example -it's interesting that of the 5 Republicans who voted for the Lilly Ledbetter Act in the Senate, 4 were woman, and the 5th later switched to the Dems.

Of course,  I am sure Democrats also seize any opportunity to distract their potential voters from the real issues. Thats what politicians do. Just don't agree on THOSE particular issues.

Thats fair.  Did you see that Alan Dershowitz, the very far left Harvard Law professor, sided with Hobby Lobby in their supreme court battle over. Kinda blew a hole in the whole War on Women rhetoric (on that one aspect anyway)

He's also a very determined defender of Israel!

My problem with Hobby Lobby is where do you draw the line. If they can drop contraception from their health plan, is it ok for someone else to drop childhood vaccines, or if it is only religious exemptions, blood transfusions for a Jehovah's Witness employer.  Say someone like Tom Cruise doesn't believe in psychiatry,  should we not cover that?

Be careful what you wish for!

BTW, why was Dershowitz on their side? Legal technicality or idealogical.

I don't think one dissenter is enough to discredit anything however!

When the one dissenter you mention is one of the most brilliant legal minds in the country and rabid supporter of the Democratic agenda, I think his dissent holds a little more weight than your or mine opinion.

According to an extensive interview I listened to at the time of the ruling, the law was on Holly Hobbies side.

(Satellite radio and traffic jams are a wonderful thing)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/kathleen-parker-hobby-lobby-case-creates-unexpected-allies-in-alan-dershowitz-and-kenneth-starr/2014/03/25/3e9d0936-b45a-11e3-8cb6-284052554d74_story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
QuoteI'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties

For a lack of transparency and for calling voters stupid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But go on.

Let's start with the perjury. Explain how he is guilty of perjury.

Its very complicated and I'm not a legal expert, but what I heard from a credible source,  is that he testified before a congressional committee at least once when they were trying to pass the law.

Theres an army of attorneys currently pouring over every word of his testimony to see if anything he said then, contradicts what has come out on the tape.

They will also suponea every email he ever sent or received to see if they can pin him with conspiracy.

My guess is that someone as sloppy as him has left a trail of breadcrumbs behind him

And that in a nutshell sums up Republicans. That is precisely how they view democracy. They either get what they want via a democratic vote, or they undermine a democratic vote and get it via other means.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 12, 2014, 09:05:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:59:24 PM

When the one dissenter you mention is one of the most brilliant legal minds in the country and rabid supporter of the Democratic agenda, I think his dissent holds a little more weight than your or mine opinion.


Why do you think that now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:24:37 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 12, 2014, 09:05:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:59:24 PM

When the one dissenter you mention is one of the most brilliant legal minds in the country and rabid supporter of the Democratic agenda, I think his dissent holds a little more weight than your or mine opinion.


Why do you think that now?

I dont understand your question?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
QuoteI'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties

For a lack of transparency and for calling voters stupid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But go on.

Let's start with the perjury. Explain how he is guilty of perjury.

Its very complicated and I'm not a legal expert, but what I heard from a credible source,  is that he testified before a congressional committee at least once when they were trying to pass the law.

Theres an army of attorneys currently pouring over every word of his testimony to see if anything he said then, contradicts what has come out on the tape.

They will also suponea every email he ever sent or received to see if they can pin him with conspiracy.

My guess is that someone as sloppy as him has left a trail of breadcrumbs behind him

And that in a nutshell sums up Republicans. That is precisely how they view democracy. They either get what they want via a democratic vote, or they undermine a democratic vote and get it via other means.

Well if the "Democratic Vote" is based on fraud, deceit and perjury, the Republicans owe it to the American people to investigate it to full extent of the law.

(Would Obama have won re-election if all this was known in 2012??  Probably, but he would have had a hell of a more difficult time)

And you don't think the Democrats would do exactly the same thing if the roles were reversed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 09:41:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
QuoteI'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties

For a lack of transparency and for calling voters stupid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But go on.

Let's start with the perjury. Explain how he is guilty of perjury.

Its very complicated and I'm not a legal expert, but what I heard from a credible source,  is that he testified before a congressional committee at least once when they were trying to pass the law.

Theres an army of attorneys currently pouring over every word of his testimony to see if anything he said then, contradicts what has come out on the tape.

They will also suponea every email he ever sent or received to see if they can pin him with conspiracy.

My guess is that someone as sloppy as him has left a trail of breadcrumbs behind him

And that in a nutshell sums up Republicans. That is precisely how they view democracy. They either get what they want via a democratic vote, or they undermine a democratic vote and get it via other means.

Well if the "Democratic Vote" is based on fraud, deceit and perjury, the Republicans owe it to the American people to investigate it to full extent of the law.

(Would Obama have won re-election if all this was known in 2012??  Probably, but he would have had a hell of a more difficult time)

And you don't think the Democrats would do exactly the same thing if the roles were reversed

You first said they are looking to see if he contradicted himself.

Then you leap into hyperspace from there to "the 'Democratic Vote' is based on fraud, deceit and perjury". Nothing like waiting to see if they find anything first. You have already made up your mind. Even though you can't point to anything other than an army of lawyers looking at transcripts praying to find a smoking gun. Which of course means they don't have one now. But again, you have made up your mind already.

The greatest irony is how brilliantly the Republicans get the low income, low education vote. Now that really is turkeys voting for Christmas, but they still do it all the same. Truly amazing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 09:41:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
QuoteI'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties

For a lack of transparency and for calling voters stupid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But go on.

Let's start with the perjury. Explain how he is guilty of perjury.

Its very complicated and I'm not a legal expert, but what I heard from a credible source,  is that he testified before a congressional committee at least once when they were trying to pass the law.

Theres an army of attorneys currently pouring over every word of his testimony to see if anything he said then, contradicts what has come out on the tape.

They will also suponea every email he ever sent or received to see if they can pin him with conspiracy.

My guess is that someone as sloppy as him has left a trail of breadcrumbs behind him

And that in a nutshell sums up Republicans. That is precisely how they view democracy. They either get what they want via a democratic vote, or they undermine a democratic vote and get it via other means.

Well if the "Democratic Vote" is based on fraud, deceit and perjury, the Republicans owe it to the American people to investigate it to full extent of the law.

(Would Obama have won re-election if all this was known in 2012??  Probably, but he would have had a hell of a more difficult time)

And you don't think the Democrats would do exactly the same thing if the roles were reversed

You first said they are looking to see if he contradicted himself.

Then you leap into hyperspace from there to "the 'Democratic Vote' is based on fraud, deceit and perjury". Nothing like waiting to see if they find anything first. You have already made up your mind. Even though you can't point to anything other than an army of lawyers looking at transcripts praying to find a smoking gun. Which of course means they don't have one now. But again, you have made up your mind already.

The greatest irony is how brilliantly the Republicans get the low income, low education vote. Now that really is turkeys voting for Christmas, but they still do it all the same. Truly amazing.

We can debate till the cows come home-I guess only time can tell which one of us is correct

(And for the record, your'e the one who brought the conversation into hyperspace claiming Republicans are trying to undermine it a Democratic vote. I was merely responding to your allegation)

As for the low information voter.....google obamaphone video-LOL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 09:57:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 09:41:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
QuoteI'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties

For a lack of transparency and for calling voters stupid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But go on.

Let's start with the perjury. Explain how he is guilty of perjury.

Its very complicated and I'm not a legal expert, but what I heard from a credible source,  is that he testified before a congressional committee at least once when they were trying to pass the law.

Theres an army of attorneys currently pouring over every word of his testimony to see if anything he said then, contradicts what has come out on the tape.

They will also suponea every email he ever sent or received to see if they can pin him with conspiracy.

My guess is that someone as sloppy as him has left a trail of breadcrumbs behind him

And that in a nutshell sums up Republicans. That is precisely how they view democracy. They either get what they want via a democratic vote, or they undermine a democratic vote and get it via other means.

Well if the "Democratic Vote" is based on fraud, deceit and perjury, the Republicans owe it to the American people to investigate it to full extent of the law.

(Would Obama have won re-election if all this was known in 2012??  Probably, but he would have had a hell of a more difficult time)

And you don't think the Democrats would do exactly the same thing if the roles were reversed

You first said they are looking to see if he contradicted himself.

Then you leap into hyperspace from there to "the 'Democratic Vote' is based on fraud, deceit and perjury". Nothing like waiting to see if they find anything first. You have already made up your mind. Even though you can't point to anything other than an army of lawyers looking at transcripts praying to find a smoking gun. Which of course means they don't have one now. But again, you have made up your mind already.

The greatest irony is how brilliantly the Republicans get the low income, low education vote. Now that really is turkeys voting for Christmas, but they still do it all the same. Truly amazing.

We can debate till the cows come home-I guess only time can tell which one of us is correct

(And for the record, your'e the one who brought the conversation into hyperspace claiming Republicans are trying to undermine it a Democratic vote. I was merely responding to your allegation)

As for the low information voter.....google obamaphone video-LOL

But you said this: "the 'Democratic Vote' is based on fraud, deceit and perjury".

As for low information voter, I never mentioned the phrase.

My comment was at the irony of how the Republicans, a party for the super rich, successfully persuade low income and low education voters to back them. It is comical really when you think about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2014, 10:04:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 09:57:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 09:41:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
QuoteI'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties

For a lack of transparency and for calling voters stupid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But go on.

Let's start with the perjury. Explain how he is guilty of perjury.

Its very complicated and I'm not a legal expert, but what I heard from a credible source,  is that he testified before a congressional committee at least once when they were trying to pass the law.

Theres an army of attorneys currently pouring over every word of his testimony to see if anything he said then, contradicts what has come out on the tape.

They will also suponea every email he ever sent or received to see if they can pin him with conspiracy.

My guess is that someone as sloppy as him has left a trail of breadcrumbs behind him

And that in a nutshell sums up Republicans. That is precisely how they view democracy. They either get what they want via a democratic vote, or they undermine a democratic vote and get it via other means.

Well if the "Democratic Vote" is based on fraud, deceit and perjury, the Republicans owe it to the American people to investigate it to full extent of the law.

(Would Obama have won re-election if all this was known in 2012??  Probably, but he would have had a hell of a more difficult time)

And you don't think the Democrats would do exactly the same thing if the roles were reversed

You first said they are looking to see if he contradicted himself.

Then you leap into hyperspace from there to "the 'Democratic Vote' is based on fraud, deceit and perjury". Nothing like waiting to see if they find anything first. You have already made up your mind. Even though you can't point to anything other than an army of lawyers looking at transcripts praying to find a smoking gun. Which of course means they don't have one now. But again, you have made up your mind already.

The greatest irony is how brilliantly the Republicans get the low income, low education vote. Now that really is turkeys voting for Christmas, but they still do it all the same. Truly amazing.

We can debate till the cows come home-I guess only time can tell which one of us is correct

(And for the record, your'e the one who brought the conversation into hyperspace claiming Republicans are trying to undermine it a Democratic vote. I was merely responding to your allegation)

As for the low information voter.....google obamaphone video-LOL

But you said this: "the 'Democratic Vote' is based on fraud, deceit and perjury".

As for low information voter, I never mentioned the phrase.

My comment was at the irony of how the Republicans, a party for the super rich, successfully persuade low income and low education voters to back them. It is comical really when you think about it.
Especially when median earnings have been stagnant in real terms since the mid 70s
But the American dream is a very powerful motivator even if it's dead. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2014, 11:46:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 09:57:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 09:41:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
QuoteI'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties

For a lack of transparency and for calling voters stupid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But go on.

Let's start with the perjury. Explain how he is guilty of perjury.

Its very complicated and I'm not a legal expert, but what I heard from a credible source,  is that he testified before a congressional committee at least once when they were trying to pass the law.

Theres an army of attorneys currently pouring over every word of his testimony to see if anything he said then, contradicts what has come out on the tape.

They will also suponea every email he ever sent or received to see if they can pin him with conspiracy.

My guess is that someone as sloppy as him has left a trail of breadcrumbs behind him

And that in a nutshell sums up Republicans. That is precisely how they view democracy. They either get what they want via a democratic vote, or they undermine a democratic vote and get it via other means.

Well if the "Democratic Vote" is based on fraud, deceit and perjury, the Republicans owe it to the American people to investigate it to full extent of the law.

(Would Obama have won re-election if all this was known in 2012??  Probably, but he would have had a hell of a more difficult time)

And you don't think the Democrats would do exactly the same thing if the roles were reversed

You first said they are looking to see if he contradicted himself.

Then you leap into hyperspace from there to "the 'Democratic Vote' is based on fraud, deceit and perjury". Nothing like waiting to see if they find anything first. You have already made up your mind. Even though you can't point to anything other than an army of lawyers looking at transcripts praying to find a smoking gun. Which of course means they don't have one now. But again, you have made up your mind already.

The greatest irony is how brilliantly the Republicans get the low income, low education vote. Now that really is turkeys voting for Christmas, but they still do it all the same. Truly amazing.

We can debate till the cows come home-I guess only time can tell which one of us is correct

(And for the record, your'e the one who brought the conversation into hyperspace claiming Republicans are trying to undermine it a Democratic vote. I was merely responding to your allegation)

As for the low information voter.....google obamaphone video-LOL

But you said this: "the 'Democratic Vote' is based on fraud, deceit and perjury".

As for low information voter, I never mentioned the phrase.

My comment was at the irony of how the Republicans, a party for the super rich, successfully persuade low income and low education voters to back them. It is comical really when you think about it.

Apologies....I'm back on the mobile and it's hard to read all this stuff

As for the LOW EDUCATION voter Google OBAMAPHONE video - LOL.

I'm seriously confused here.....you were the first one who uttered the phrase "undermine a democratic vote". Go back and read the thread

Exactly what democratic vote are they seeking to undermine?????

(I assumed you were talking about the 2012 Presidential Election-which in my view is now seriously tainted by the lies that were just uncovered. If the voters had been given full disclosure would they have voted the same way??)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2014, 07:57:45 AM
'the lies that were just uncovered'.  :D

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 09:26:21 AM
"Alan Dershowitz, the very far left Harvard Law professor". Given his support for torture, I suppose he is on the far left - in the same way Stalin was.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 13, 2014, 09:33:45 AM
Always good to see Fox put in their place with a simple argument. . . more people having healthcare is better is it not?

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/11/angus-king-shames-fox-friends-are-you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Canalman on November 13, 2014, 10:09:08 AM
Think history will view the Obama presidency favourably. From what I can see he will leave the USA in a better place economically than when he arrived and for that imo he deserves credit. Likewise Gordon Brown in Britian................ the right man in power at the right time and while he lost the election I get the feeling people in the UK only now realising how well   (compared to others ) he did at the time of the economic crisis.

Eisenhower, Nixon and even Reagan would probably not survive a Republican nomination process nowadays given its swing to the right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2014, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 07:57:45 AM
'the lies that were just uncovered'.  :D

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?

The whole legislation was based on a lie-and now we have the smoking gun.

What the army of lawyers are looking for is evidence of PERJURY-lying under oath.

Not to mention Obamas famous quote from the last election (which has already proven to be bullshit)

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan. PERIOD"

How is government run healthcare working for you guys in Ireland??? Last time i checked it was an unmitigated disaster

(As for George W Bush if you want to discuss the war in Iraq, please start another thread and I will be happy to discuss it with you. In fact I will probably agree with you on 90% of your points.)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2014, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 13, 2014, 10:09:08 AM
Think history will view the Obama presidency favourably. From what I can see he will leave the USA in a better place economically than when he arrived and for that imo he deserves credit. Likewise Gordon Brown in Britian................ the right man in power at the right time and while he lost the election I get the feeling people in the UK only now realising how well   (compared to others ) he did at the time of the economic crisis.

Eisenhower, Nixon and even Reagan would probably not survive a Republican nomination process nowadays given its swing to the right.

LOL-Its not April 1st!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Canalman on November 13, 2014, 10:16:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2014, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 13, 2014, 10:09:08 AM
Think history will view the Obama presidency favourably. From what I can see he will leave the USA in a better place economically than when he arrived and for that imo he deserves credit. Likewise Gordon Brown in Britian................ the right man in power at the right time and while he lost the election I get the feeling people in the UK only now realising how well   (compared to others ) he did at the time of the economic crisis.

Eisenhower, Nixon and even Reagan would probably not survive a Republican nomination process nowadays given its swing to the right.

LOL-Its not April 1st!!!

No. Just a differing opinion Whitey. We can agree to disagree so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2014, 10:26:18 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 13, 2014, 10:16:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2014, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 13, 2014, 10:09:08 AM
Think history will view the Obama presidency favourably. From what I can see he will leave the USA in a better place economically than when he arrived and for that imo he deserves credit. Likewise Gordon Brown in Britian................ the right man in power at the right time and while he lost the election I get the feeling people in the UK only now realising how well   (compared to others ) he did at the time of the economic crisis.

Eisenhower, Nixon and even Reagan would probably not survive a Republican nomination process nowadays given its swing to the right.

LOL-Its not April 1st!!!

No. Just a differing opinion Whitey. We can agree to disagree so.

Absolutely


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2014, 11:28:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2014, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 07:57:45 AM
'the lies that were just uncovered'.  :D

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?

The whole legislation was based on a lie-and now we have the smoking gun.

What the army of lawyers are looking for is evidence of PERJURY-lying under oath.

Not to mention Obamas famous quote from the last election (which has already proven to be bullshit)

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan. PERIOD"

How is government run healthcare working for you guys in Ireland??? Last time i checked it was an unmitigated disaster

(As for George W Bush if you want to discuss the war in Iraq, please start another thread and I will be happy to discuss it with you. In fact I will probably agree with you on 90% of your points.)

Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

And what "lie" was Obamacare "based" on?

Yeah, he screwed up the "everyone can keep their current plan" statement, but it was also clear to anyone paying attention that going forward all plans would have to meet a minimum set of standards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 11:33:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2014, 11:28:25 AM
Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

I wish we had Obamacare in Ireland. As muppet noted earlier, the healthy subsidise the sick. As things stand here, we have a lot of healthy people who are assuming they will always be healthy and avoiding paying for insurance. Sure, lots of them don't get sick, but for those who do the pot of money to pay for their care is correspondingly smaller because so few people are paying into it.

Obama's legacy depends on making his health care reforms stick. It's still up in the air.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2014, 01:00:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2014, 11:28:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2014, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 07:57:45 AM
'the lies that were just uncovered'.  :D

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?

The whole legislation was based on a lie-and now we have the smoking gun.

What the army of lawyers are looking for is evidence of PERJURY-lying under oath.

Not to mention Obamas famous quote from the last election (which has already proven to be bullshit)

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan. PERIOD"

How is government run healthcare working for you guys in Ireland??? Last time i checked it was an unmitigated disaster

(As for George W Bush if you want to discuss the war in Iraq, please start another thread and I will be happy to discuss it with you. In fact I will probably agree with you on 90% of your points.)

Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

And what "lie" was Obamacare "based" on?

Yeah, he screwed up the "everyone can keep their current plan" statement, but it was also clear to anyone paying attention that going forward all plans would have to meet a minimum set of standards.

We could spend a week going around in circles on this.

I guess time will tell

However some of the early Republican concerns about the program, that were denied by Obama and his surrogates are now proven true

BTW...I heard there are even more juicy video clips on the way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 13, 2014, 01:37:50 PM
you do have to wonder if there is anyone out there at least attempting to keep the Republicans on the straight and narrow.

Next stop Net neutrality.

Rather than have me butcher this- head over to the oatmeal to see the reaction to visionary genius Republican Ted Cruz

http://theoatmeal.com/blog/net_neutrality
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2014, 05:50:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2014, 01:00:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2014, 11:28:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2014, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 07:57:45 AM
'the lies that were just uncovered'.  :D

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?

The whole legislation was based on a lie-and now we have the smoking gun.

What the army of lawyers are looking for is evidence of PERJURY-lying under oath.

Not to mention Obamas famous quote from the last election (which has already proven to be bullshit)

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan. PERIOD"

How is government run healthcare working for you guys in Ireland??? Last time i checked it was an unmitigated disaster

(As for George W Bush if you want to discuss the war in Iraq, please start another thread and I will be happy to discuss it with you. In fact I will probably agree with you on 90% of your points.)

Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

And what "lie" was Obamacare "based" on?

Yeah, he screwed up the "everyone can keep their current plan" statement, but it was also clear to anyone paying attention that going forward all plans would have to meet a minimum set of standards.

We could spend a week going around in circles on this.

I guess time will tell

However some of the early Republican concerns about the program, that were denied by Obama and his surrogates are now proven true

BTW...I heard there are even more juicy video clips on the way

The couple of pieces I've heard about these videos so far - if anyone DID NOT realize that people would be taxed for opting out (didn't the Supreme court rule just that in 2012) or that insurance companies were likely to  pass on any taxes they were required to pay, then they really ARE as stupid as this arrogant, arsehole professor seems to think.

What is the problem here - that Mr Gruber is a tool, or that people were somehow "deceived"? Fox NEws and the odious, skin crawling Tucker Carlson will beat this to death with their usual fake outrage (where was all this concern about transparency and lying by the White House ten years ago?), but I seriously doubt if this will have any long term impact. The upcoming Supreme Court case will be the key - if they rule that the subsidies are illegal due to the way the law is worded, then that will be a massive problem. If that turns out the case, it should be fun watching Republicans celebrate millions losing their health insurance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2014, 06:17:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2014, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 07:57:45 AM
'the lies that were just uncovered'.  :D

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?

The whole legislation was based on a lie-and now we have the smoking gun.

What the army of lawyers are looking for is evidence of PERJURY-lying under oath.

Not to mention Obamas famous quote from the last election (which has already proven to be bullshit)

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan. PERIOD"

How is government run healthcare working for you guys in Ireland??? Last time i checked it was an unmitigated disaster

(As for George W Bush if you want to discuss the war in Iraq, please start another thread and I will be happy to discuss it with you. In fact I will probably agree with you on 90% of your points.)

Which lie was that again?

Healthcare in Ireland is not ideal but it available to everyone.

I see some hospitals are refusing to treat Obamacare patients.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/top-hospitals-wont-treat-obamacare-patients/ (http://www.westernjournalism.com/top-hospitals-wont-treat-obamacare-patients/)

But not to worry. For should Democrats have their way, hospitals may be forced into treating ALL patients, regardless of their insurance coverage.

Imagine that!

Whatever problems and delays we have here, we don't refuse treatment to sick people. I have had the misfortune to sit awaiting (ultimately excellent) treatment in the US while the issue of how they would be paid was sorted. While there was a doubt about payment, I had to wait. In a proper society (never mind the richest country in the world) everyone is entitled to have their health viewed as something more than a commodity. In my opinion of course.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2014, 07:08:58 PM
IF YOU LIKE YUR PLAN-YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PLAN-PERIOD!!!!!

Barack Hussein Obama (aka Barry Soetero)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2014, 07:23:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2014, 07:08:58 PM
IF YOU LIKE YUR PLAN-YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PLAN-PERIOD!!!!!

Barack Hussein Obama (aka Barry Soetero)

This is pretty typical of the US style debate.

Pick a line and 'torture' it out of context. I could argue that people are keeping their current coverage and simply getting extra cover, but what would be the point? This is FOX News thinking. Just keep shouting. For example, imagine Obama, in the context of fears of pay reductions, pledged the same public sector pay next year. If pay subsequently increased, Republicans would go ballistic rose and accuse him of 'lying'.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan)

QuoteMoreover, it's certainly incorrect to claim, as some Republicans have, that people are losing insurance coverage. Instead, in virtually all cases, it's being replaced with probably better (and possibly more expensive) insurance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 13, 2014, 07:26:11 PM
Read my lips: no new taxes

In shocking news politicians say anything to get your vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2014, 07:32:07 PM
I hear theres powerful stuff altogether on the new videos

I think i will sit back, pop some popcorn and enjoy the entertainment-"this beatdown is going to be epic"




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2014, 08:28:48 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 11:33:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2014, 11:28:25 AM
Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

I wish we had Obamacare in Ireland. As muppet noted earlier, the healthy subsidise the sick. As things stand here, we have a lot of healthy people who are assuming they will always be healthy and avoiding paying for insurance. Sure, lots of them don't get sick, but for those who do the pot of money to pay for their care is correspondingly smaller because so few people are paying into it.

Obama's legacy depends on making his health care reforms stick. It's still up in the air.
Health care costs in the US are off the scale .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2014, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2014, 08:28:48 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 11:33:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2014, 11:28:25 AM
Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

I wish we had Obamacare in Ireland. As muppet noted earlier, the healthy subsidise the sick. As things stand here, we have a lot of healthy people who are assuming they will always be healthy and avoiding paying for insurance. Sure, lots of them don't get sick, but for those who do the pot of money to pay for their care is correspondingly smaller because so few people are paying into it.

Obama's legacy depends on making his health care reforms stick. It's still up in the air.
Health care costs in the US are off the scale .

No health insurance and you are going to lose your house if anything remotely serious happens.

It's a joke.

But apparently healthcare is a privelege, not a right, according to conservatives. It's something where money can be made. And to some extent that works, in that there is a lot of innovation. But there is also an alarming lack of preventative care and a dismissal of concerns about lack of insurance/access with " well they can just go to the ER".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 14, 2014, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 14, 2014, 06:17:19 AM
To even compare and protray the US healthcare system as better than the Irish or for that matter any other universal healthcare system is laughable.
The US healthcare system is about making profit and so the decisions you are relying on from the system are based on that. Its true that you can get great treatment in America - if you have the money, but half the time its the wrong treatment, just the most expensive one often requested by the patient as they think its the best but what do they actually really know. Also hospitals are built like hotels in America to try and attract customers, important for making a profit but irrelevant to actual healthcare. I could go on but I would be here all day, but my point is for profit healthcare does not do a good job.

BTW Obamacare is a farce also, how can healthcare possibility be the responsibility of an employer? Nuts!

The solution is easy, Nationalisation. It is a proven system when it comes to healthcare. America's refusal to accept this fact is an indication of preference of philosophy (Capitalism) over facts. Very dangerous territory

I think its a cultural thing where in the US the healthcare policy would be part of your remuneration package, certainly anyone I know who works in the states would be reliant on it as part of their employment and coverage would vary from employer to employer.
We're to an extent used to having a free NHS (although we're heavier taxed at source) and any private health insurance offered by an employer is deemed to be a bonus although a taxable benefit in kind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 14, 2014, 11:05:19 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 14, 2014, 06:17:19 AM
To even compare and protray the US healthcare system as better than the Irish or for that matter any other universal healthcare system is laughable.
The US healthcare system is about making profit and so the decisions you are relying on from the system are based on that. Its true that you can get great treatment in America - if you have the money, but half the time its the wrong treatment, just the most expensive one often requested by the patient as they think its the best but what do they actually really know. Also hospitals are built like hotels in America to try and attract customers, important for making a profit but irrelevant to actual healthcare. I could go on but I would be here all day, but my point is for profit healthcare does not do a good job.

BTW Obamacare is a farce also, how can healthcare possibility be the responsibility of an employer? Nuts!

The solution is easy, Nationalisation. It is a proven system when it comes to healthcare. America's refusal to accept this fact is an indication of preference of philosophy (Capitalism) over facts. Very dangerous territory

Employer-provided health insurance has been around for more than 60 years. Started as an employment incentive. It is simply the way most Americans get it. Nothing to do with Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2014, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2014, 11:05:19 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 14, 2014, 06:17:19 AM
To even compare and protray the US healthcare system as better than the Irish or for that matter any other universal healthcare system is laughable.
The US healthcare system is about making profit and so the decisions you are relying on from the system are based on that. Its true that you can get great treatment in America - if you have the money, but half the time its the wrong treatment, just the most expensive one often requested by the patient as they think its the best but what do they actually really know. Also hospitals are built like hotels in America to try and attract customers, important for making a profit but irrelevant to actual healthcare. I could go on but I would be here all day, but my point is for profit healthcare does not do a good job.

BTW Obamacare is a farce also, how can healthcare possibility be the responsibility of an employer? Nuts!

The solution is easy, Nationalisation. It is a proven system when it comes to healthcare. America's refusal to accept this fact is an indication of preference of philosophy (Capitalism) over facts. Very dangerous territory

Employer-provided health insurance has been around for more than 60 years. Started as an employment incentive. It is simply the way most Americans get it. Nothing to do with Obama.

Quality of health benefits would be a serious consideration for many when taking a job. I remember my very first job where I was in an entry level position making crap money I had unbelievable benefits. On the rare occasion when i needed to see a doctor, I was been seen by "Head of Harvard Med School" types. It was truly incredible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 01:52:33 PM
I think there is only one "head of harvard med school" be tough to have types attached to that role.

For me, whitey, the issue is not where the "in network" coverage offered is available, but rather the coverage that is not covered is awful, and indeed expensive. We have some special medical needs in our family, and 95% of the time those are covered, but if we have an emergency situation and need care locally where my insurance isn't accepted, then it is many thousands of dollars out of pocket.

I also have an issue that 15% of GDP is spent on healthcare which is nearly 40% higher than any other developed country. I happen to think that the Obamacare initiative is a very positive thing for the economy of the US and in particular for the 99%. There are definitely cases where it is not the ideal solution, but it is a significant step forward. Obviously if you work for, or have shares in large healthcare companies, Obamacare is not your idea solution...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2014, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 01:52:33 PM
I think there is only one "head of harvard med school" be tough to have types attached to that role.

For me, whitey, the issue is not where the "in network" coverage offered is available, but rather the coverage that is not covered is awful, and indeed expensive. We have some special medical needs in our family, and 95% of the time those are covered, but if we have an emergency situation and need care locally where my insurance isn't accepted, then it is many thousands of dollars out of pocket.

I also have an issue that 15% of GDP is spent on healthcare which is nearly 40% higher than any other developed country. I happen to think that the Obamacare initiative is a very positive thing for the economy of the US and in particular for the 99%. There are definitely cases where it is not the ideal solution, but it is a significant step forward. Obviously if you work for, or have shares in large healthcare companies, Obamacare is not your idea solution...

Hence my use of the word "type"-one guy I met was former head of Harvard Med School-another guy I met became the head several years later. It was an accurate generalization of the caliber of healthcare an entry level employee with good insurance would receive.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 01:58:04 PM
It was an accurate generalization of the caliber of healthcare an entry level employee with good insurance would receive.

OK, lets say there are 5 (generous) former or current heads of Harvard Medical School practicing medicine. Let's say each has 3,000 patients on their roster ( again very generous) and that none of those overlap (generous even though you have proven that they do overlap) that's 150,000 patients.

There are 316 million (documented) people in the US, so that is one in 2,100 who have that access. Entirely up to you as to whether you would describe that as an accurate generalization.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2014, 03:06:27 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 01:58:04 PM
It was an accurate generalization of the caliber of healthcare an entry level employee with good insurance would receive.

OK, lets say there are 5 (generous) former or current heads of Harvard Medical School practicing medicine. Let's say each has 3,000 patients on their roster ( again very generous) and that none of those overlap (generous even though you have proven that they do overlap) that's 150,000 patients.

There are 316 million (documented) people in the US, so that is one in 2,100 who have that access. Entirely up to you as to whether you would describe that as an accurate generalization.


You obviously have no idea how health insurance works if you're willing to make a statement like that.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 03:06:27 PM
You obviously have no idea how health insurance works if you're willing to make a statement like that.

again - your opinion and that's entirely up to you, others may disagree.

Thats the thing about opinions, like assholes, everybody has one, but not everyone should be exposing theirs in public.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2014, 03:39:56 PM
the Irish health system is far more humane

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11027923/Robin-Williams-obituary.html

(Robin Williams )...became good friends with his fellow student Christopher Reeve, and the two remained close until Reeve's death in 2004, nine years after the riding accident that had left him paralysed from the neck down. Their relationship demonstrated the loyal, decent side of Williams's character. When Reeve's medical insurance ran out, Williams picked up the tab for many of the bills
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2014, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 03:06:27 PM
You obviously have no idea how health insurance works if you're willing to make a statement like that.

again - your opinion and that's entirely up to you, others may disagree.

Thats the thing about opinions, like assholes, everybody has one, but not everyone should be exposing theirs in public.

Not an opinion-fact (that you're wrong)

The 30000 people who worked at this ONE company in Boston all had the same insurance.

Remember I'm talking about specialists/consultants that you may see once, not a GP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 03:43:26 PM
Not an opinion-fact (that you're wrong)

The 30000 people who worked at this ONE company in Boston all had the same insurance.

Remember I'm talking about specialists/consultants that you may see once, not a GP.

QuoteIt was an accurate generalization of the caliber of healthcare an entry level employee with good insurance would receive.

so your amended version of your statement is now:
QuoteIt was an accurate generalization of the caliber of healthcare an entry level employee  in my 30000 person company in Boston with good insurance would receive.

Which is, I hope you are aware, statistically a very, very different statement. Carry on with explaining how I'm wrong, I'm not sure I get that from your notes above but it is very possible...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 03:43:26 PM
Not an opinion-fact (that you're wrong)

The 30000 people who worked at this ONE company in Boston all had the same insurance.

Remember I'm talking about specialists/consultants that you may see once, not a GP.

QuoteIt was an accurate generalization of the caliber of healthcare an entry level employee with good insurance would receive.

so your amended version of your statement is now:
QuoteIt was an accurate generalization of the caliber of healthcare an entry level employee  in my 30000 person company in Boston with good insurance would receive.

Which is, I hope you are aware, statistically a very, very different statement. Carry on with explaining how I'm wrong, I'm not sure I get that from your notes above but it is very possible...

Thats fair...I thought we were just discussing and exchanging ideas on a general level...hence me painting in broad strokes....I didn't realize I was testifying under oath
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 04:58:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
Thats fair...I thought we were just discussing and exchanging ideas on a general level...hence me painting in broad strokes....I didn't realize I was testifying under oath

Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.

good job you didn't pull that on a client just on a discussion board.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2014, 05:15:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 04:58:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
Thats fair...I thought we were just discussing and exchanging ideas on a general level...hence me painting in broad strokes....I didn't realize I was testifying under oath

Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.

good job you didn't pull that on a client just on a discussion board.


You're right, chit chatting with low information posters about politics on a public board wouldn't fall into that category of offense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 14, 2014, 05:49:00 PM
Is whitey Tyrones own? Because the debating style is very similar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 14, 2014, 06:02:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 05:15:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 04:58:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
Thats fair...I thought we were just discussing and exchanging ideas on a general level...hence me painting in broad strokes....I didn't realize I was testifying under oath

Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.

good job you didn't pull that on a client just on a discussion board.


You're right, chit chatting with low information posters about politics on a public board wouldn't fall into that category of offense

What's with this "low information" poster shite?

Its the sort of thing you see on US newspaper websites comment sections or other places where hyper-partisan people gather to hurl abuse or look for intellectual reinforcement from like-minded people.

If you disagree with a point, then make your case. This is not FreeRepublic, The Daily Caller or Daily Kos.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 14, 2014, 06:02:51 PM
Quote from: dec on November 14, 2014, 05:49:00 PM
Is whitey Tyrones own? Because the debating style is very similar.

Lacking smiley icons though!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2014, 09:45:06 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 14, 2014, 04:58:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
Thats fair...I thought we were just discussing and exchanging ideas on a general level...hence me painting in broad strokes....I didn't realize I was testifying under oath

Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.

good job you didn't pull that on a client just on a discussion board.

My curiosity got the better of me:  I actually underestimated about half

Securities fraud, also known as investor or stock fraud, covers a range of activities that violate federal and state laws pertaining to buying, selling and trading securities. The most common forms of securities fraud include:
Misrepresentation (presenting misleading or false information to investors about a company, or its securities)
Accounting fraud (manipulating or falsifying books or records to misrepresent a public companies assets and liabilities)
Insider trading (buying, selling or trading securities based on information that is not readily available to the general public)
Securities fraud is governed by both federal and state laws, and legal actions can be brought about by private investors or by a government agency, such as the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Violations of federal securities laws are treated as serious offenses that can carry both civil and criminal penalties. Criminal investigations can lead to felony convictions that carry penalties of up to 20 years' imprisonment. In addition, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and National Association of Securities Dealers (NASD) may impose civil fines against corporations or individuals convicted of securities fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2014, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: dec on November 14, 2014, 05:49:00 PM
Is whitey Tyrones own? Because the debating style is very similar.

Don't think so, this guy just pulls quotes from GOP fan-blogs. Tyrone's Own had extra ammo in genuine comprehension even if it was always blinded by the same agenda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
Any thoughts on the decision not to indict Darren Wilson over the death of Michael Brown and the subsequent reaction?

Rudy Giuliano didn't do himself any favours on Channel 4 news last night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
Any thoughts on the decision not to indict Darren Wilson over the death of Michael Brown and the subsequent reaction?

Rudy Giuliano didn't do himself any favours on Channel 4 news last night.

Widespread protests in many cities over the death of a thief and petty thug who challenged a lawman.
It's not like he was MLK.
I like the rioting and looting they are doing in his memory. Very touching.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 26, 2014, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
Any thoughts on the decision not to indict Darren Wilson over the death of Michael Brown and the subsequent reaction?

Rudy Giuliano didn't do himself any favours on Channel 4 news last night.

Widespread protests in many cities over the death of a thief and petty thug who challenged a lawman.
It's not like he was MLK.
I like the rioting and looting they are doing in his memory. Very touching.

At the same time a lawman can't go killing someone stone dead when they pose no threat to him . . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 12:18:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
Any thoughts on the decision not to indict Darren Wilson over the death of Michael Brown and the subsequent reaction?

Rudy Giuliano didn't do himself any favours on Channel 4 news last night.

Widespread protests in many cities over the death of a thief and petty thug who challenged a lawman.
It's not like he was MLK.
I like the rioting and looting they are doing in his memory. Very touching.

Could have been written by a Tory toff in the aftermath of Bloody Sunday. There's rioting in American cities when their teams win the the Super Bowl and when they lose the Super Bowl. Strange how that is never seen as the death of civilisation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 26, 2014, 02:03:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
Any thoughts on the decision not to indict Darren Wilson over the death of Michael Brown and the subsequent reaction?

Rudy Giuliano didn't do himself any favours on Channel 4 news last night.
I will preface by saying that none of us have seen all the evidence that the Grand jury did but it does seem strange that they did not consider that there was even enough evidence to try Wilson.

From the bits of evidence I have read it would appear there was a struggle for the gun where the first shot was fired and it likely that Brown was not standing quietly with his hands up when he was shot but he was still 135 feet away when he was shot, far enough not to be a threat and far enough away that a significant number of shots missed the target completely. I would have thought there was a case to answer. At least there should have been an opportunity for Wilson to be cross examined on some of the weaker aspects of his story (he was big and scary, I thought he had a gun) to determine if perhaps he was simply not up to the job he was being asked to do or if there are wider issues (racism or lack of resource or simply that Police have lost control of the streets) which need to be addressed.

As regards the protests there were numerous peacful protests from Seattle to New York but riots in Ferguson (why respect the law when it does not respect you) are deemed the more newsworthy, a self fulfilling prophesy due to the timing of the anouncement. They only help further demonise the black population, see Fox news or Foxcommander for evidence of this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:19:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 26, 2014, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
Any thoughts on the decision not to indict Darren Wilson over the death of Michael Brown and the subsequent reaction?

Rudy Giuliano didn't do himself any favours on Channel 4 news last night.

Widespread protests in many cities over the death of a thief and petty thug who challenged a lawman.
It's not like he was MLK.
I like the rioting and looting they are doing in his memory. Very touching.

At the same time a lawman can't go killing someone stone dead when they pose no threat to him . . .

I thought the police officer was punched a couple of times according to the evidence.  One thing I have learned from my visits to the states is that you don't mess about with the cops.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:19:59 PM
I thought the police officer was punched a couple of times according to the evidence.  One thing I have learned from my visits to the states is that you don't mess about with the cops.

#ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson?src=hash)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:19:59 PM
I thought the police officer was punched a couple of times according to the evidence.  One thing I have learned from my visits to the states is that you don't mess about with the cops.

#ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson?src=hash)

If Michael Brown had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If a black police officer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:56:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:54:11 PM
If Michael Brown had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If a black police officer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

If Aidan McAnespie had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If an IRA volunteer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 26, 2014, 03:15:38 PM
This was in the FT


http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1e769634-29e6-11e4-914f-00144feabdc0.html
Race relations have long been fraught in Missouri, a slave state before the Civil War and hardly a paragon of integration after it. Ferguson was home to only a few hundred black people as recently as 1970. Despite the growth of its African-American population, 50 of its 53 police officers and five of its six city council members are white.

I think the history of state and white violence against black people is relevant too
http://media.johnwiley.com.au/product_data/excerpt/01/04713806/0471380601.pdf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 26, 2014, 03:16:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:19:59 PM
I thought the police officer was punched a couple of times according to the evidence.  One thing I have learned from my visits to the states is that you don't mess about with the cops.

#ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson?src=hash)

If Michael Brown had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If a black police officer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

It wasn't  a black police officer though. . . your first point has a little but of validity but the second point is just whataboutery!

In fairness your first point is ridiculous as well. 'Not behaving yourself' is not punishable by death!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:56:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:54:11 PM
If Michael Brown had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If a black police officer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

If Aidan McAnespie had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If an IRA volunteer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

Disgraceful that you use Aidan McAnespie as an example. There is no comparison. He was walking to the GAA pitch and shot in the back after going through the checkpoint. I don't get your second point at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:39:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:56:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:54:11 PM
If Michael Brown had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If a black police officer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

If Aidan McAnespie had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If an IRA volunteer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

Disgraceful that you use Aidan McAnespie as an example. There is no comparison. He was walking to the GAA pitch and shot in the back after going through the checkpoint. I don't get your second point at all.

The point is that your smearing of Michael Brown could just as easily be applied to countless victims of state violence in the North.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:40:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 26, 2014, 03:16:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:19:59 PM
I thought the police officer was punched a couple of times according to the evidence.  One thing I have learned from my visits to the states is that you don't mess about with the cops.

#ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson?src=hash)

If Michael Brown had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If a black police officer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

It wasn't though a black police officer . . . your first point has a little but of validity but the second point is just whataboutery!

In fairness your first point is ridiculous as well. 'Not behaving yourself' is not punishable by death!

Not behaving yourself isn't punishable by death. It's regrettable that it happened in the first place. The officer involved may have been too inexperienced to handle the situation on his own and made a huge mistake in judgement. 76 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in 2013 according to the FBI.

As for the 'whataboutery' - there are multiple murders and deaths in the states on a daily basis yet this is the one that makes the headlines. Only difference here is that the ethnicity of the people involved to suggest that this was a hate crime.
Ditto the Trayvon Martin case, in that instance George Zimmerman wasn't a police officer but there was Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson stoking up tension. There's a market for hatred and serious money to be made.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:39:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:56:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:54:11 PM
If Michael Brown had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If a black police officer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

If Aidan McAnespie had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If an IRA volunteer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

Disgraceful that you use Aidan McAnespie as an example. There is no comparison. He was walking to the GAA pitch and shot in the back after going through the checkpoint. I don't get your second point at all.

The point is that your smearing of Michael Brown could just as easily be applied to countless victims of state violence in the North.

Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:40:05 PM
Not behaving yourself isn't punishable by death. It's regrettable that it happened in the first place. The officer involved may have been too inexperienced to handle the situation on his own and made a huge mistake in judgement. 76 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in 2013 according to the FBI.

As for the 'whataboutery' - there are multiple murders and deaths in the states on a daily basis yet this is the one that makes the headlines. Only difference here is that the ethnicity of the people involved to suggest that this was a hate crime.
Ditto the Trayvon Martin case, in that instance George Zimmerman wasn't a police officer but there was Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson stoking up tension. There's a market for hatred and serious money to be made.

Do you read what you say? This is exactly the kind of tripe Jeffrey Donaldson or Gregory Campbell comes out with when some atrocity commited by the RUC or the British Army is brought up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/

Whether or not Michael Brown actually stole from the convenience store is irrelevant, unless you think deadly force is appropriate for handling a teenage shoplifter.

Your faux outrage at deiseach's use of Aidan McAnespie's death to undermine your ridiculous statements is pathetic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/

Just as well for Dorian Johnson, who was with Michael Brown, that they weren't engaging in the illegal act of joyriding. Then Darren Wilson would have been justified in killing them both, like Lee Clegg did to Martin Peake and Karen Reilly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/

Whether or not Michael Brown actually stole from the convenience store is irrelevant, unless you think deadly force is appropriate for handling a teenage shoplifter.

Your faux outrage at deiseach's use of Aidan McAnespie's death to undermine your ridiculous statements is pathetic.

How is it irrelevant. It shows he had little regard for the law. I will re-iterate that he didn't deserve to be killed.

My faux outrage?? You should pull up Deiseach for making the comparison between the two to try justify his point. That was pretty low.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/

Whether or not Michael Brown actually stole from the convenience store is irrelevant, unless you think deadly force is appropriate for handling a teenage shoplifter.

Your faux outrage at deiseach's use of Aidan McAnespie's death to undermine your ridiculous statements is pathetic.

How is it irrelevant. It shows he had little regard for the law. I will re-iterate that he didn't deserve to be killed.

My faux outrage?? You should pull up Deiseach for making the comparison between the two to try justify his point. That was pretty low.

Only seen as low by hypocritical eejits who miss the point entirely.

I suspect the reason Deiseach used McAnespie as a reference was because he knew it was exactly the sort of thing you'd get het up about, what with all the armchair republican bluster you spout. And you proved him right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:12:58 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/

Just as well for Dorian Johnson, who was with Michael Brown, that they weren't engaging in the illegal act of joyriding. Then Darren Wilson would have been justified in killing them both, like Lee Clegg did to Martin Peake and Karen Reilly.

Comparing the north during the troubles with Ferguson? Bravo.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:14:49 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/

Whether or not Michael Brown actually stole from the convenience store is irrelevant, unless you think deadly force is appropriate for handling a teenage shoplifter.

Your faux outrage at deiseach's use of Aidan McAnespie's death to undermine your ridiculous statements is pathetic.

How is it irrelevant. It shows he had little regard for the law. I will re-iterate that he didn't deserve to be killed.

My faux outrage?? You should pull up Deiseach for making the comparison between the two to try justify his point. That was pretty low.

Only seen as low by hypocritical eejits who miss the point entirely.

I suspect the reason Deiseach used McAnespie as a reference was because he knew it was exactly the sort of thing you'd get het up about, what with all the armchair republican bluster you spout. And you proved him right.

Not beyond you guys to use a GAA man's death to make a point. Shameful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 26, 2014, 04:18:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:14:49 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/

Whether or not Michael Brown actually stole from the convenience store is irrelevant, unless you think deadly force is appropriate for handling a teenage shoplifter.

Your faux outrage at deiseach's use of Aidan McAnespie's death to undermine your ridiculous statements is pathetic.

How is it irrelevant. It shows he had little regard for the law. I will re-iterate that he didn't deserve to be killed.

My faux outrage?? You should pull up Deiseach for making the comparison between the two to try justify his point. That was pretty low.

Only seen as low by hypocritical eejits who miss the point entirely.

I suspect the reason Deiseach used McAnespie as a reference was because he knew it was exactly the sort of thing you'd get het up about, what with all the armchair republican bluster you spout. And you proved him right.

Not beyond you guys to use a GAA man's death to make a point. Shameful.
If Brown was a member of his local club or some young Irish lad on a J1 would you have made your same initial point?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:14:49 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/

Whether or not Michael Brown actually stole from the convenience store is irrelevant, unless you think deadly force is appropriate for handling a teenage shoplifter.

Your faux outrage at deiseach's use of Aidan McAnespie's death to undermine your ridiculous statements is pathetic.

How is it irrelevant. It shows he had little regard for the law. I will re-iterate that he didn't deserve to be killed.

My faux outrage?? You should pull up Deiseach for making the comparison between the two to try justify his point. That was pretty low.

Only seen as low by hypocritical eejits who miss the point entirely.

I suspect the reason Deiseach used McAnespie as a reference was because he knew it was exactly the sort of thing you'd get het up about, what with all the armchair republican bluster you spout. And you proved him right.

Not beyond you guys to use a GAA man's death to make a point. Shameful.

See this is the exact point:

White catholic in the north involved with the GAA - outrage

Black teenager in Missouri who may have committed petty theft - so f**k

You are the disgrace here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:14:49 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
Smearing? So you're saying he had done nothing wrong that day?

We'll have no way of knowing, because any investigation has been stopped before it can be started.

Looks like he paid for the goods..

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/

Whether or not Michael Brown actually stole from the convenience store is irrelevant, unless you think deadly force is appropriate for handling a teenage shoplifter.

Your faux outrage at deiseach's use of Aidan McAnespie's death to undermine your ridiculous statements is pathetic.

How is it irrelevant. It shows he had little regard for the law. I will re-iterate that he didn't deserve to be killed.

My faux outrage?? You should pull up Deiseach for making the comparison between the two to try justify his point. That was pretty low.

Only seen as low by hypocritical eejits who miss the point entirely.

I suspect the reason Deiseach used McAnespie as a reference was because he knew it was exactly the sort of thing you'd get het up about, what with all the armchair republican bluster you spout. And you proved him right.

Not beyond you guys to use a GAA man's death to make a point. Shameful.

See this is the exact point:

White catholic in the north involved with the GAA - outrage

Black teenager in Missouri who may have committed petty theft - so f**k

You are the disgrace here.

Your facts are incorrect. Making the comparison is way off the mark.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 04:31:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 26, 2014, 04:21:09 PM
See this is the exact point:

White catholic in the north involved with the GAA - outrage

Black teenager in Missouri who may have committed petty theft - so f**k

You are the disgrace here.

Your facts are incorrect. Making the comparison is way off the mark.

You made some outrageous statements, deiseach drew parallels with a subject you feel closer to, your reaction and sentiments were wildly different. Ergo, you are a hypocrite.

Those are the facts. None of them are incorrect.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 26, 2014, 09:58:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:19:59 PM
I thought the police officer was punched a couple of times according to the evidence.  One thing I have learned from my visits to the states is that you don't mess about with the cops.

#ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson?src=hash)

If Michael Brown had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If a black police officer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

This is merely one of a number of cases in which police have killed unarmed black men and boys. Two more in the last week alone.

As to this case, I just hope if I ever end up before a grand jury that I get a prosecuter as sympathetic to my case as this one was. You'd swear he was his defence lawyer in an actual trial.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 27, 2014, 12:43:20 AM
Hard to believe the policeman can have a "clean conscience" after shooting dead an unarmed teenager, shows how much he values another man's life
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 27, 2014, 12:43:20 AM
Hard to believe the policeman can have a "clean conscience" after shooting dead an unarmed teenager, shows how much he values another man's life
Did you see the full interview with the police officer?The "clear conscience" comment is strictly in relation to the confrontation and shooting of Mike Brown and nothing to do with how much he values another mans life.He says later on in the interview that he feels a lot of remorse about Browns death but of course that would not suit the narrative of the police officer being the bad guy.And as for the prosecutor being like a defense lawyer for the police officer,what a load of rubbish.He gave the grand jury every piece of evidence in the case and let them decide and this is rarely the case when grand jurys are convened.Every body wants justice but the only justice in this case for a lot of people would be for the officer to convicted of first degree murder regardless of the facts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2014, 03:37:37 AM
This is a discussion board...not an attack board

Why does every discussion have to descend into anarchy just because folks disagree with one another.

I vowed after my last go around on healthcare I would steer clear...but what the hell

The "unarmed black teenager" assaulted a police officer and reached for his gun inside the cruiser. His DNA was found on the gun and his blood from the first shot was found inside the car and on the officers uniform.

His struggle with Wilson inside the cruiser was verified by his companion who was with him when he robbed the store.

The trail of blood extended beyond where Browns body lay dead, indicating that he had indeed turned around and was going once coming towards Wilson to confront him in some manner.

To the best of my knowledge these are the "facts" not my opinion. I have read many articles and listened to several hours of radio coverage.

My opinion is that Brown was not an "immediate" threat....could he not have shot him in the leg or torso or retreated behind the vehicle.....brown was if i understand correctly, was 30 yards away when he was shot.

My understanding is that many of the eyewitnesses accounts were very contradictory and that without reliable eyewitnesses, The grand jury had no option but to deliver the verdict they did
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2014, 03:57:36 AM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 27, 2014, 12:43:20 AM
Hard to believe the policeman can have a "clean conscience" after shooting dead an unarmed teenager, shows how much he values another man's life
Did you see the full interview with the police officer?The "clear conscience" comment is strictly in relation to the confrontation and shooting of Mike Brown and nothing to do with how much he values another mans life.He says later on in the interview that he feels a lot of remorse about Browns death but of course that would not suit the narrative of the police officer being the bad guy.And as for the prosecutor being like a defense lawyer for the police officer,what a load of rubbish.He gave the grand jury every piece of evidence in the case and let them decide and this is rarely the case when grand jurys are convened.Every body wants justice but the only justice in this case for a lot of people would be for the officer to convicted of first degree murder regardless of the facts

You just agreed with me. Grand juries never go down like this one did. There is no way this prosecutor would have given the defendant every opportunity and benefit of the doubt if it had been Brown who killed Wilson. If I'm wrong, then every would be defendant in St Louis must pray that the DA's office chooses this guy for their case. I seriously doubt if many of his other grand juries follow the format of this one. There are plenty of issues here that warranted a trial. That doesn't mean that Wilson is guilty.  It means that there are issues that need to properly examined in a trial setting. And not just Wilson's testimony: His colleagues who investigated the crime scene etc too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 09:15:55 AM
I think the best way of understanding those defending Darren Wilson is to look at another example of British justice not only being done, but being seen to be be believed. Tom Denning dismissed one of the Birmingham Six's appeal on the basis that, if it were accepted, then it meant all the police involved had fitted them up. The prospect of this was "such an appalling vista that every sensible person in the land would say that it cannot be right that these actions should go any further." For Darren Wilson's defenders, the notion that a cop could murder someone is such an appalling vista that it simply can't be countenanced, especially if there is a racial motive involved.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:17:52 PM
To say that anyone defending Darren Wilson believes that any police officer cannot commit a crime is absurd.Did you read any of the evidence presented to the grand jury?You have got to judge each case on its merits and in this case the evidence suggests that it did not warrant being brought to trial.The grand jury sat for 25 days and listened to 70 hours of evidence and could not find a way to bring it to trial.And for me the prosecutor presenting all the evidence to a grand jury is the way all cases should be presented and if the prosecutor in this case had withheld any evidence he would have been accused of bias by either side.There are plenty of cases thro out the USA whereby police officers have committed crimes and are serving time in jail but this is not one of them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 03:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 03:37:37 AM
This is a discussion board...not an attack board

Why does every discussion have to descend into anarchy just because folks disagree with one another.

I vowed after my last go around on healthcare I would steer clear...but what the hell

The "unarmed black teenager" assaulted a police officer and reached for his gun inside the cruiser. His DNA was found on the gun and his blood from the first shot was found inside the car and on the officers uniform.

His struggle with Wilson inside the cruiser was verified by his companion who was with him when he robbed the store.

The trail of blood extended beyond where Browns body lay dead, indicating that he had indeed turned around and was going once coming towards Wilson to confront him in some manner.

To the best of my knowledge these are the "facts" not my opinion. I have read many articles and listened to several hours of radio coverage.

My opinion is that Brown was not an "immediate" threat....could he not have shot him in the leg or torso or retreated behind the vehicle.....brown was if i understand correctly, was 30 yards away when he was shot.

My understanding is that many of the eyewitnesses accounts were very contradictory and that without reliable eyewitnesses, The grand jury had no option but to deliver the verdict they did

I agree with your opinion but not your conclusion.

The only real facts are that an unarmed man was shot dead. The absence of reliable evidence does not change that. The blood trail doesn't prove he was returning to 'confront' Wilson, merely that he changed direction. 

The burden of proof must be on the person who shot dead the unarmed man. What has happened here, as in other cases, is that the reputation of the victim, his colour, background and dodgy activity, even if completely smalltime and irrelevant to the shooting, have been used to colour (apologies) the thinking of many sane people into believing there might just have been a good reason to instantly remove this person from society. Even if there clearly wasn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 27, 2014, 03:38:55 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 27, 2014, 12:43:20 AM
Hard to believe the policeman can have a "clean conscience" after shooting dead an unarmed teenager, shows how much he values another man's life
Did you see the full interview with the police officer?The "clear conscience" comment is strictly in relation to the confrontation and shooting of Mike Brown and nothing to do with how much he values another mans life.He says later on in the interview that he feels a lot of remorse about Browns death but of course that would not suit the narrative of the police officer being the bad guy.And as for the prosecutor being like a defense lawyer for the police officer,what a load of rubbish.He gave the grand jury every piece of evidence in the case and let them decide and this is rarely the case when grand jurys are convened.Every body wants justice but the only justice in this case for a lot of people would be for the officer to convicted of first degree murder regardless of the facts

I thought the prosecutor played a blinder given the hand he was dealt, he gave the evidence and ONLY the evidence and let the grand Jury decide, the man was in a no win situation and he did what he thought best and he made the best decisions he could based on the facts he had to work with!

That aul bastid Sharpton is a twisted, vile piece of shite, a pub hound if ever there was one!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 03:34:44 PM
The burden of proof must be on the person who shot dead the unarmed man. What has happened here, as in other cases, is that the reputation of the victim, his colour, background and dodgy activity, even if completely smalltime and irrelevant to the shooting, have been used to colour (apologies) the thinking of many sane people into believing there might just have been a good reason to instantly remove this person from society. Even if there clearly wasn't.

The 80's myth of the super-predator, the child of a crack whore mother and lacking a Bill Cosby-style role model in his life - now that's a good joke! - has coloured (etc) the viewpoint of so much of white America that a policeman can claim that he was like a five-year-old up against Hulk Hogan and that the perp kept on coming at him while he was filling him full of lead . . . and be believed. Depressing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 04:16:04 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

There were also witnesses who said that Michael Brown did not charge at the police car, witnesses who said he did not reach into the police car, witnesses who said that he was running away when being fired upon, witnesses who said Darren Wilson fired at him when he was lying on the ground, and witnesses who said he was kneeling when fired upon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:18:21 PM
I don't know lads, but the Grand Jury heard way more evidence than they normally would, and they decided there was no case to answer. I think that's about all we know for sure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 27, 2014, 04:26:11 PM
Police are rarely indicted by grand juries, according to this:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/)

"A recent Houston Chronicle investigation found that "police have been nearly immune from criminal charges in shootings" in Houston and other large cities in recent years. In Harris County, Texas, for example, grand juries haven't indicted a Houston police officer since 2004; in Dallas, grand juries reviewed 81 shootings between 2008 and 2012 and returned just one indictment. Separate research by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson has found that officers are rarely charged in on-duty killings, although it didn't look at grand jury indictments specifically."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:27:50 PM
Because maybe when they look at all the evidence, they decide the police were right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:27:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:18:21 PM
I don't know lads, but the Grand Jury heard way more evidence than they normally would, and they decided there was no case to answer. I think that's about all we know for sure.

Different case I know but watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU)

My money says there will be no indictment here either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 04:29:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:27:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:18:21 PM
I don't know lads, but the Grand Jury heard way more evidence than they normally would, and they decided there was no case to answer. I think that's about all we know for sure.

Different case I know but watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU)

My money says there will be no indictment here either.

Having read Jell 0 Biafra's link, good luck finding someone to give you odds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:27:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:18:21 PM
I don't know lads, but the Grand Jury heard way more evidence than they normally would, and they decided there was no case to answer. I think that's about all we know for sure.

Different case I know but watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU)

My money says there will be no indictment here either.

There's always outliers, but even in this case, if that young lad had been outside a school with a gun that looked real (the bright orange thing that tells cops it is fake had been removed) and pointing it around, would that have made a difference? It appears the cops had convinced themselves before they arrived that this was real, and a real threat and didn't bother to check too hard. Having said that, if it was a real gun (not unheard of for a child to have a real gun in the US) and the kid shot someone, the cops would be hammered for not doing something.

It's a tough job, and a lot of them are not able for it.

I blame the gun culture in America, which has made cops see every situation as a possible kill or be killed. It's a well known guideline in the states that when you get pulled over for a traffic offense, you keep your hands on the wheel and never reach into the glove compartment unless they tell you to. Same reason, and it's ridiculous. The NRA and the damned 'right to bear arms' has a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:43:54 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:27:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:18:21 PM
I don't know lads, but the Grand Jury heard way more evidence than they normally would, and they decided there was no case to answer. I think that's about all we know for sure.

Different case I know but watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU)

My money says there will be no indictment here either.

There's always outliers, but even in this case, if that young lad had been outside a school with a gun that looked real (the bright orange thing that tells cops it is fake had been removed) and pointing it around, would that have made a difference? It appears the cops had convinced themselves before they arrived that this was real, and a real threat and didn't bother to check too hard. Having said that, if it was a real gun (not unheard of for a child to have a real gun in the US) and the kid shot someone, the cops would be hammered for not doing something.

It's a tough job, and a lot of them are not able for it.

I blame the gun culture in America, which has made cops see every situation as a possible kill or be killed. It's a well known guideline in the states that when you get pulled over for a traffic offense, you keep your hands on the wheel and never reach into the glove compartment unless they tell you to. Same reason, and it's ridiculous. The NRA and the damned 'right to bear arms' has a lot to answer for.

That is an understatement. If they felt threatened they could have stayed in the car. Instead they jumped out of the car and shot him within 2 seconds. Also they reported him as being 'about 20 years old'. So much for eye-witnesses being unreliable, the original caller said he was a child.

This was a 12 year old doing what almost every child on earth does, playing with toy guns. It will be interesting to see this story evolve over the next few weeks, as the character assassination squad arrive in Cleveland.

I think of the criticism, the Gárdaí got for the Abbeylara shooting. They waited 20 hours and tried just about everything and still were criticised. These cops shot the kid dead in 2 seconds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 04:45:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
It's a tough job, and a lot of them are not able for it.

I'd say "if you can't do the time, don't commit the crime". But seeing as it's so rarely considered a crime, the message is "blast away, officer!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:51:04 PM
No doubt about it. But sometimes it's easy to watch a video, without context, and jump to a conclusion. What part of Cleveland is this? Is it near anywhere like a school? It appears to be a park? Is there a local drugs gang around that uses child 'soldiers'?

Now I'm not saying that the cops were right here, it certainly appears that at the very least they were trigger happy and jumpy, but until you know all the factors involved, it's easy to make a rush judgment.

And just by the way, the gun looks EXTREMELY realistic, and had the orange tag removed. The toy gun statement makes it sound like a cap gun. But even if it was a real gun, it's hard to see legitimate reason to shoot in that video, barring (as I've said) extenuating circumstances.

(http://images.techtimes.com/data/images/full/26756/12-year-old-boys-toy-gun-in-cleveland-shooting.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:52:37 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 04:45:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
It's a tough job, and a lot of them are not able for it.

I'd say "if you can't do the time, don't commit the crime". But seeing as it's so rarely considered a crime, the message is "blast away, officer!"

It certainly seems to be the case. That link about the indictments on law enforcements officers (or lack thereof) being a complete outlier,  seems to support the argument regarding these shooting being treated differently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:52:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 04:45:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
It's a tough job, and a lot of them are not able for it.

I'd say "if you can't do the time, don't commit the crime". But seeing as it's so rarely considered a crime, the message is "blast away, officer!"

I think it's a bit easy to hammer the cops all the time. I'm not sure there's anybody on earth equipped to deal with that sort of stress. I know I wouldn't be able for it. Maybe if so many assholes in America weren't shooting each other, the cops wouldn't be so jumpy.

Then of course you get the odd Tackleberry type lunatic who is only too happy to blast away, but I think they are in a small minority.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:56:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:51:04 PM
No doubt about it. But sometimes it's easy to watch a video, without context, and jump to a conclusion. What part of Cleveland is this? Is it near anywhere like a school? It appears to be a park? Is there a local drugs gang around that uses child 'soldiers'?

Now I'm not saying that the cops were right here, it certainly appears that at the very least they were trigger happy and jumpy, but until you know all the factors involved, it's easy to make a rush judgment.

And just by the way, the gun looks EXTREMELY realistic, and had the orange tag removed. The toy gun statement makes it sound like a cap gun. But even if it was a real gun, it's hard to see legitimate reason to shoot in that video, barring (as I've said) extenuating circumstances.

(http://images.techtimes.com/data/images/full/26756/12-year-old-boys-toy-gun-in-cleveland-shooting.jpg)

This 'orange tag' thing is an example of the obfuscation that immediately appears in a case like this. The spin doctors quickly move the discussion away from the fundamental issue that the cop shot dead a 12 year old boy who was just playing. No doubt this will become 'if only he hadn't removed the orange tag this tragedy could have been avoided'.

BTW if I ever rob a bank I must remember to have the gang put orange tags on the guns. That should buy a few seconds fooling the cops.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:59:50 PM
If you stop being facetious for a minute, you'll see that in this case I am not defending the cops at all. It looks to me like an over reaction, but as I said until you know the other facts, you're just taking an opportunity to jump to a conclusion that suits your own prejudices.

See that gun? If a lad waved that at me, the same way this young lad was waving it at passers by in that video, I'd be scared. In a tense situation, it's not unreasonable to think that's a real gun, or are you saying the cops should have known it was a toy?

I'm saying the cops should have been more careful, even in the manner of their approach. If it was a real gun, they were actually putting themselves in danger first. But what is the context here? I don't know, and I bet you don't either.

I think it's all very sad, but I don't completely blame the cops. I blame the laws in the states that have made cops think that every situation they are going into might be the one where they get shot. That can't be healthy for the mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 05:07:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:59:50 PM
If you stop being facetious for a minute, you'll see that in this case I am not defending the cops at all. It looks to me like an over reaction, but as I said until you know the other facts, you're just taking an opportunity to jump to a conclusion that suits your own prejudices.

See that gun? If a lad waved that at me, the same way this young lad was waving it at passers by in that video, I'd be scared. In a tense situation, it's not unreasonable to think that's a real gun, or are you saying the cops should have known it was a toy?

I'm saying the cops should have been more careful, even in the manner of their approach. If it was a real gun, they were actually putting themselves in danger first. But what is the context here? I don't know, and I bet you don't either.

The context is a 12 year old boy is dead for playing with his toy gun. That is a massive failure of policing and a massive failure of society.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 05:12:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 05:07:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:59:50 PM
If you stop being facetious for a minute, you'll see that in this case I am not defending the cops at all. It looks to me like an over reaction, but as I said until you know the other facts, you're just taking an opportunity to jump to a conclusion that suits your own prejudices.

See that gun? If a lad waved that at me, the same way this young lad was waving it at passers by in that video, I'd be scared. In a tense situation, it's not unreasonable to think that's a real gun, or are you saying the cops should have known it was a toy?

I'm saying the cops should have been more careful, even in the manner of their approach. If it was a real gun, they were actually putting themselves in danger first. But what is the context here? I don't know, and I bet you don't either.

The context is a 12 year old boy is dead for playing with his toy gun. That is a massive failure of policing and a massive failure of society.

I agree. But I would put more blame on the society that created the situation in the first place.

But I would still like to know why, in this instance, these cops felt the need to get so close, so quickly, and open fire. That's what I mean about context.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
As I noted yesterday, to hysteria from certain quarters, explanations to put seemingly trigger-happy American cops into 'context' use exactly the same language that was utilised by the Brits on the occasion of the latest atrocity by the security forces in the North. I didn't buy the it's-a-hard-job defence then, and I'm not buying it now. And having had a peeler in the family for all but five of the first eighty years of this state, my natural instinct is to side with forces of law and order. Having your uniform stolen by a gun-toting anti-Treatyite who wanted it to rob a bank and knew full well my grandfather wasn't packing heat - that was a hard job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 27, 2014, 06:09:25 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
As I noted yesterday, to hysteria from certain quarters, explanations to put seemingly trigger-happy American cops into 'context' use exactly the same language that was utilised by the Brits on the occasion of the latest atrocity by the security forces in the North. I didn't buy the it's-a-hard-job defence then, and I'm not buying it now. And having had a peeler in the family for all but five of the first eighty years of this state, my natural instinct is to side with forces of law and order. Having your uniform stolen by a gun-toting anti-Treatyite who wanted it to rob a bank and knew full well my grandfather wasn't packing heat - that was a hard job.

You equated Bloody Sunday and Aidan McAnespie with Michael Brown.
Different circumstances completely, not to mention it was the army who were the ones with the guns in this case, not the police.
But don't let that stop you...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 06:47:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 05:12:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 05:07:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:59:50 PM
If you stop being facetious for a minute, you'll see that in this case I am not defending the cops at all. It looks to me like an over reaction, but as I said until you know the other facts, you're just taking an opportunity to jump to a conclusion that suits your own prejudices.

See that gun? If a lad waved that at me, the same way this young lad was waving it at passers by in that video, I'd be scared. In a tense situation, it's not unreasonable to think that's a real gun, or are you saying the cops should have known it was a toy?

I'm saying the cops should have been more careful, even in the manner of their approach. If it was a real gun, they were actually putting themselves in danger first. But what is the context here? I don't know, and I bet you don't either.

The context is a 12 year old boy is dead for playing with his toy gun. That is a massive failure of policing and a massive failure of society.

I agree. But I would put more blame on the society that created the situation in the first place.

But I would still like to know why, in this instance, these cops felt the need to get so close, so quickly, and open fire. That's what I mean about context.

I agree in that there simply has to be a reason that an otherwise fine citizen (he could hardly be a cop if he had a long criminal record) sees fit to shoot the kid dead in 2 seconds. For example it could be something small such as defective training or something more sinister such as a 'shoot to kill and we will clean up the mess' policy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 06:59:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2014, 06:09:25 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 27, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
As I noted yesterday, to hysteria from certain quarters, explanations to put seemingly trigger-happy American cops into 'context' use exactly the same language that was utilised by the Brits on the occasion of the latest atrocity by the security forces in the North. I didn't buy the it's-a-hard-job defence then, and I'm not buying it now. And having had a peeler in the family for all but five of the first eighty years of this state, my natural instinct is to side with forces of law and order. Having your uniform stolen by a gun-toting anti-Treatyite who wanted it to rob a bank and knew full well my grandfather wasn't packing heat - that was a hard job.

You equated Bloody Sunday and Aidan McAnespie with Michael Brown.
Different circumstances completely, not to mention it was the army who were the ones with the guns in this case, not the police.
But don't let that stop you...

Yeah, one was a GAA man and the other wasn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2014, 09:05:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQs7CWKHM9w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewxNAXeafo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 27, 2014, 10:00:22 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 27, 2014, 12:43:20 AM
Hard to believe the policeman can have a "clean conscience" after shooting dead an unarmed teenager, shows how much he values another man's life
Did you see the full interview with the police officer?The "clear conscience" comment is strictly in relation to the confrontation and shooting of Mike Brown and nothing to do with how much he values another mans life.He says later on in the interview that he feels a lot of remorse about Browns death but of course that would not suit the narrative of the police officer being the bad guy.

No, I didn't see the full interview tbf and fair enough if he was remorseful in the rest of the interview, his choice of words "clean conscience" leaves something to be desired though imo. It also seems strange to me for a cop who just shot an unarmed man to do a tv interview.

I'd agree with whitey in that Brown wasn't an immediate danger and shooting him dead was ott.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2014, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2014, 10:16:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 27, 2014, 10:00:22 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 27, 2014, 12:43:20 AM
Hard to believe the policeman can have a "clean conscience" after shooting dead an unarmed teenager, shows how much he values another man's life
Did you see the full interview with the police officer?The "clear conscience" comment is strictly in relation to the confrontation and shooting of Mike Brown and nothing to do with how much he values another mans life.He says later on in the interview that he feels a lot of remorse about Browns death but of course that would not suit the narrative of the police officer being the bad guy.

No, I didn't see the full interview tbf and fair enough if he was remorseful in the rest of the interview, his choice of words "clean conscience" leaves something to be desired though imo. It also seems strange to me for a cop who just shot an unarmed man to do a tv interview.

I'd agree with whitey in that Brown wasn't an immediate danger and shooting him dead was ott.
The US can be quite weird.
It's strange to advertise prescription drugs on TV as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 10:25:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU) would suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2014, 10:38:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 10:25:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU) would suggest otherwise.

I don't understand your question...please clarify

Translation of Gardai Siochana is Guardian of the Peace.  To me that would suggest a gentler less confrontational application of the law
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2014, 10:39:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 10:25:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU) would suggest otherwise.
The person shot by the police in that Young Turks video from the other day was clearly suffering from some sort of mental illness, Muppet and that was also the case in Abbeylara.
I think 40% of people in jail suffer from some kind of mental illness.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2014, 11:26:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 10:38:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 10:25:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU) would suggest otherwise.

I don't understand your question...please clarify

Translation of Gardai Siochana is Guardian of the Peace.  To me that would suggest a gentler less confrontational application of the law

Whitey, are you from Ireland?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
Yes...born and bred...and a B in Honors Irish in the LC to boot

And 2 Mayo Championshop medals as well-U16 and u21
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 27, 2014, 11:52:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 11:26:11 PM

Whitey, are you from Ireland?

Are you American ?
You and a few others on here seem to have an obsession with pointing out the flaws in American society. Maybe you should look closer to home.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 27, 2014, 11:55:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 27, 2014, 10:39:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 10:25:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2014, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU) would suggest otherwise.
The person shot by the police in that Young Turks video from the other day was clearly suffering from some sort of mental illness, Muppet and that was also the case in Abbeylara.
I think 40% of people in jail suffer from some kind of mental illness.
Is your thinking  (40% of people in jail suffer from some kind of mental illness) based on anything of substance in particular, or did the idea just strike you irandomly
The prison statistic is actually much higher    but some kind of mental illness  is a normal response to incarceration, a prisoner  would experience any one or two of the tells  for mental illness (depression, anxiety, despair, suicidal thoughts etc) at any given time  due to a hundred different influences,  but "some kind of mental illness" doesn't quite describe our man in  the Abbeylara tragedy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2014, 12:09:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
Yes...born and bred...and a B in Honors Irish in the LC to boot

And 2 Mayo Championshop medals as well-U16 and u21

Good man.

The reason I asked is it seemed strange (to me anyway) to literally translate An Garda Siochana and take that translation to identify a difference with another country's police force.

Police forces will obviously have different flavours and culture from country to country, but I would guess there are plenty of Gardai 'charged' week in week out around Ireland and they don't shoot to kill immediately. This came up on the discussion regarding John Morley murder whereby he fired over the heads of the INLA guys. One of them just turned and shot him dead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 28, 2014, 12:14:56 AM
The only obvious lesson from that particular example is that John Morley should have shot to kill.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2014, 12:32:12 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2014, 12:09:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
Yes...born and bred...and a B in Honors Irish in the LC to boot

And 2 Mayo Championshop medals as well-U16 and u21

Good man.

The reason I asked is it seemed strange (to me anyway) to literally translate An Garda Siochana and take that translation to identify a difference with another country's police force.

Police forces will obviously have different flavours and culture from country to country, but I would guess there are plenty of Gardai 'charged' week in week out around Ireland and they don't shoot to kill immediately. This came up on the discussion regarding John Morley murder whereby he fired over the heads of the INLA guys. One of them just turned and shot him dead.

Read your history me lad.....it's all there in black and white (read the paragraph on Garda Siochana Duties). Many of their duties have nothing to do with policing and more to do with administration

http://www.policehistory.com/issues.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 28, 2014, 12:34:32 AM
We do not know the terms of reference in this case, we know the result and some of the inputs but we do not know the full picture and the influences. A court case would give is that but should there be a court case every time something looks a little off to anyone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2014, 01:25:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2014, 12:32:12 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2014, 12:09:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
Yes...born and bred...and a B in Honors Irish in the LC to boot

And 2 Mayo Championshop medals as well-U16 and u21

Good man.

The reason I asked is it seemed strange (to me anyway) to literally translate An Garda Siochana and take that translation to identify a difference with another country's police force.

Police forces will obviously have different flavours and culture from country to country, but I would guess there are plenty of Gardai 'charged' week in week out around Ireland and they don't shoot to kill immediately. This came up on the discussion regarding John Morley murder whereby he fired over the heads of the INLA guys. One of them just turned and shot him dead.

Read your history me lad.....it's all there in black and white (read the paragraph on Garda Siochana Duties). Many of their duties have nothing to do with policing and more to do with administration

http://www.policehistory.com/issues.html

I completely fail to see your point.

You pointed out that in the US the police are heavily armed. And then went on to say that in Ireland the police are guardians of the peace and this somehow was the difference.

Could you explain what you mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 28, 2014, 01:35:37 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 27, 2014, 04:27:50 PM
Because maybe when they look at all the evidence, they decide the police were right?

Maybe.  But is it likely the police are in the right so often?   Moreover, isn't the issue with a grand jury indictment merely that the accused has a case to answer?--in which case you'd think that there would be sufficient evidence in some of these cases to at least show this.  All the more so  when you look at the numbers in comparison with grand jury indictment cases involving accused who aren't police.  In such cases, the vast majority of cases go to trial.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2014, 03:30:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2014, 03:23:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2014, 01:25:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2014, 12:32:12 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2014, 12:09:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
Yes...born and bred...and a B in Honors Irish in the LC to boot

And 2 Mayo Championshop medals as well-U16 and u21

Good man.

The reason I asked is it seemed strange (to me anyway) to literally translate An Garda Siochana and take that translation to identify a difference with another country's police force.

Police forces will obviously have different flavours and culture from country to country, but I would guess there are plenty of Gardai 'charged' week in week out around Ireland and they don't shoot to kill immediately. This came up on the discussion regarding John Morley murder whereby he fired over the heads of the INLA guys. One of them just turned and shot him dead.

Read your history me lad.....it's all there in black and white (read the paragraph on Garda Siochana Duties). Many of their duties have nothing to do with policing and more to do with administration

http://www.policehistory.com/issues.html

I completely fail to see your point.

You pointed out that in the US the police are heavily armed. And then went on to say that in Ireland the police are guardians of the peace and this somehow was the difference.

Could you explain what you mean?

It's a subtle but yet very significant difference.  If you take the time to read that article I linked in, you will see that the Guards have (or at least had) many responsibilities that fall (or perhaps fell) outside the remit of what I would term "everyday police work".

Many Irish people (at least in my experience) view or viewed the guards, as no more than quasi civil servants or tax collectors, and hence there was/is very little respect for either the law or the Gardai.

In the States, where I have lived for 20 years, the police have one job. Enforce the law. The average person in the States, in my opinion, would have a much higher degree of respect for the police and the law in general, than the average person in Ireland.

There's no "gotcha" law enforcement over here such as speed cameras (catching people going 1 mile over the speed limit) or early morning DUI checkpoints (looking to bag some hard working guy on his way to work who took a cab home the night before).

For the most part law enforcement over here is all about public safety and most people are appreciative of it.  So if a law enforcement official gives you a command over here, you obey it-without question. You can argue your case down at the station, or in front of the judge. It would be highly unusual to hear someone, over here, answer a cop back or disobey a direct command from a law enforcement official.

That's why there's very little sympathy for Michael Brown outside of the minority community and the left wing uber liberal hipster establishment.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 28, 2014, 04:02:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2014, 03:30:41 AM

That's why there's very little sympathy for Michael Brown outside of the minority community and the left wing uber liberal hipster establishment.


Umm, really?

there is a huge racial divide over the Ferguson shooting yes, but to say there is very little sympathy for Michael Brown is nonsensical.
As for the new target of your ire good luck with your new categorization:
No results found for "left wing uber liberal hipster establishment"
You're on to something- first person in the world to post this new category. You can have a talk show of your own in no time.

In case you have any interest in finding out more than your pre-suppositions may I suggest here for some actual poll results
http://www.people-press.org/2014/08/18/stark-racial-divisions-in-reactions-to-ferguson-police-shooting/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2014, 04:06:00 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 28, 2014, 04:02:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2014, 03:30:41 AM

That's why there's very little sympathy for Michael Brown outside of the minority community and the left wing uber liberal hipster establishment.


Umm, really?

there is a huge racial divide over the Ferguson shooting yes, but to say there is very little sympathy for Michael Brown is nonsensical.
As for the new target of your ire good luck with your new categorization:
No results found for "left wing uber liberal hipster establishment"
You're on to something- first person in the world to post this new category. You can have a talk show of your own in no time.

In case you have any interest in finding out more than your pre-suppositions may I suggest here for some actual poll results
http://www.people-press.org/2014/08/18/stark-racial-divisions-in-reactions-to-ferguson-police-shooting/

Opinions only my friend....that's why it's called a discussion board...you can choose to agree with me or disagree...that's your prerogative

oh the left wing uber liberal hipster establishment....I came up with that one myself...it's a combination of terms I cobbled together based on the self descriptions of several of my Facebook friends. See,we can discuss stuff, hold widely different political opinions and world views, yet still be friends.

As as example here's my cousins current status on her Facebook page. (I changed some of the names)

"Thanksgiving 2014. The one where my Dad gave thanks for all the Rogers,  Johnny Smith nailed every single dish, Nicole Rice got me hooked on double baked sweet potatoes, Alden ate his very first Tom Turkey, and we all agreed we could disagree about politics without being disagreeable. One for the books!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 28, 2014, 04:10:10 AM
Maybe there's nothing wrong with few or any of these white-cop-shoots-black-civilian cases.  Maybe.  But suppose for a second the races where reversed, and the US was a majority black country where black cops shot white kids, and were not indicted.  Would popular opinion change?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 28, 2014, 04:48:21 AM

Whitey,
I'm all for opinions as you and I have discussed.
Just not a big fan of them being stated as facts

Anyways Happy Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2014, 08:59:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2014, 03:30:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2014, 03:23:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2014, 01:25:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2014, 12:32:12 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2014, 12:09:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
Yes...born and bred...and a B in Honors Irish in the LC to boot

And 2 Mayo Championshop medals as well-U16 and u21

Good man.

The reason I asked is it seemed strange (to me anyway) to literally translate An Garda Siochana and take that translation to identify a difference with another country's police force.

Police forces will obviously have different flavours and culture from country to country, but I would guess there are plenty of Gardai 'charged' week in week out around Ireland and they don't shoot to kill immediately. This came up on the discussion regarding John Morley murder whereby he fired over the heads of the INLA guys. One of them just turned and shot him dead.

Read your history me lad.....it's all there in black and white (read the paragraph on Garda Siochana Duties). Many of their duties have nothing to do with policing and more to do with administration

http://www.policehistory.com/issues.html

I completely fail to see your point.

You pointed out that in the US the police are heavily armed. And then went on to say that in Ireland the police are guardians of the peace and this somehow was the difference.

Could you explain what you mean?

It's a subtle but yet very significant difference.  If you take the time to read that article I linked in, you will see that the Guards have (or at least had) many responsibilities that fall (or perhaps fell) outside the remit of what I would term "everyday police work".

Many Irish people (at least in my experience) view or viewed the guards, as no more than quasi civil servants or tax collectors, and hence there was/is very little respect for either the law or the Gardai.

In the States, where I have lived for 20 years, the police have one job. Enforce the law. The average person in the States, in my opinion, would have a much higher degree of respect for the police and the law in general, than the average person in Ireland.

There's no "gotcha" law enforcement over here such as speed cameras (catching people going 1 mile over the speed limit) or early morning DUI checkpoints (looking to bag some hard working guy on his way to work who took a cab home the night before).

For the most part law enforcement over here is all about public safety and most people are appreciative of it.  So if a law enforcement official gives you a command over here, you obey it-without question. You can argue your case down at the station, or in front of the judge. It would be highly unusual to hear someone, over here, answer a cop back or disobey a direct command from a law enforcement official.

That's why there's very little sympathy for Michael Brown outside of the minority community and the left wing uber liberal hipster establishment.


I took the time to read it and was still confused, as it is about as relevent to policing today in Ireland as the Wild West is in the US.

I also fail to see how the difference in outcome between charging at a police uniform in the USA and doing it in Ireland can be put down to us viewing the police as civil servants. I would have far less respect for a trigger happy police officer with no policing skills than I would have for any competent worker, civil service or not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 28, 2014, 09:12:16 AM
I see the fact that the Gardai as being largely unarmed as a positive thing. I completely disagree that they are not respected by most people. Of course there are scumbags around who disregard law and order entirely, but they'd be the same scumbags whether the gardai were armed or not. Being 'frightened' of someone is not the same as respecting them. And it also means you're more likely to try and do something if you get a chance to.

In the US, the way society has gone, everyone is a potential gunman, and every cop has to deal with that fact every time they go to a call out. That obviously will lead to fraught incidents, and will lead to bad policing and over reactions. As I said before though, I don't entirely blame the individual cops for that. I blame the fact that they are even thinking like that in the first place.

In Ireland, there are quite a few armed criminals. There are relatively few armed detectives or ERU gardai. We don't have a serious 'cop killer' problem, and we have very few 'shootouts' where innocent people get killed. I don't view any of that as a flaw in our policing model.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 28, 2014, 09:15:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 1974, 06:09:04 AM
In the States, where I have lived for 20 years, the police have one job. Enforce the law. The average person in the States, in my opinion, would have a much higher degree of respect for the police and the law in general, than the average person in Ireland.

There's no "gotcha" law enforcement over here such as speed cameras (catching people going 1 mile over the speed limit) or early morning DUI checkpoints (looking to bag some hard working guy on his way to work who took a cab home the night before)

Must be why in the States:

a) Crime is a non-issue
b) Laws of the road are observed
c) Drink driving isn't an issue

::) ::) ::)

Balderdash.

Quote from: AZOffaly on November 28, 2014, 09:12:16 AM
In the US, the way society has gone, everyone is seen to be a potential gunman, and every cop has to deal with that fact every time they go to a call out. That obviously will lead to fraught incidents, and will lead to bad policing and over reactions. As I said before though, I don't entirely blame the individual cops for that. I blame the fact that they are even thinking like that in the first place.

I'd suggest that small but subtly important update to your piece AZ. It's a completely different mindset. In Ireland, a kid carrying a toy gun, the assumption is "that child has a toy gun". In the States, the assumption is "potentially deadly threat - eliminate".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2014, 09:22:54 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 28, 2014, 09:12:16 AM
I see the fact that the Gardai as being largely unarmed as a positive thing. I completely disagree that they are not respected by most people. Of course there are scumbags around who disregard law and order entirely, but they'd be the same scumbags whether the gardai were armed or not. Being 'frightened' of someone is not the same as respecting them.And it also means your more likely to try and do something if you get a chance to.

In the US, the way society has gone, everyone is a potential gunman, and every cop has to deal with that fact every time they go to a call out. That obviously will lead to fraught incidents, and will lead to bad policing and over reactions. As I said before though, I don't entirely blame the individual cops for that. I blame the fact that they are even thinking like that in the first place.

In Ireland, there are quite a few armed criminals. There are relatively few armed detectives or ERU gardai. We don't have a serious 'cop killer' problem, and we have very few 'shootouts' where innocent people get killed. I don't view any of that as a flaw in our policing model.

I had the same thought myself when reading Whitey's post.

For the record anytime I've seen the police in the US in action they are as curteous and professional as those anywhere else. They are always very helpful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 28, 2014, 09:26:43 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2014, 09:22:54 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 28, 2014, 09:12:16 AM
I see the fact that the Gardai as being largely unarmed as a positive thing. I completely disagree that they are not respected by most people. Of course there are scumbags around who disregard law and order entirely, but they'd be the same scumbags whether the gardai were armed or not. Being 'frightened' of someone is not the same as respecting them.And it also means your more likely to try and do something if you get a chance to.

In the US, the way society has gone, everyone is a potential gunman, and every cop has to deal with that fact every time they go to a call out. That obviously will lead to fraught incidents, and will lead to bad policing and over reactions. As I said before though, I don't entirely blame the individual cops for that. I blame the fact that they are even thinking like that in the first place.

In Ireland, there are quite a few armed criminals. There are relatively few armed detectives or ERU gardai. We don't have a serious 'cop killer' problem, and we have very few 'shootouts' where innocent people get killed. I don't view any of that as a flaw in our policing model.

I had the same thought myself when reading Whitey's post.

For the record anytime I've seen the police in the US in action they are as curteous and professional as those anywhere else. They are always very helpful.

I agree. I find them wary and watchful when you approach them initially, but they are quite quick to react to politeness. A few I spoke to in bars in Phoenix etc always said they would love the Irish and British approach, whereby the normal cop is less likely to experience gun play. They acknowledged that the fact they have guns, and the criminals have guns, mean that both sides are inclined to use them guns quickly, because you can't know what the other fella is going to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 28, 2014, 04:27:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 1974, 06:09:04 AM
In the States, where I have lived for 20 years, the police have one job. Enforce the law. The average person in the States, in my opinion, would have a much higher degree of respect for the police and the law in general, than the average person in Ireland.

There's no "gotcha" law enforcement over here such as speed cameras (catching people going 1 mile over the speed limit) or early morning DUI checkpoints (looking to bag some hard working guy on his way to work who took a cab home the night before)

Its an interesting opinion, and I find that having travelled in the US a lot, the attitudes to police are very much based on people's circumstances. Socially disadvantaged folk tend to have a lower opinion than those in wealthier communities. No surprise there, and if that degree of respect is there, that's a good sign that things are going well for the Whitey family.

There wan't a lot of respect for the RUC when I was growing up, so that's a fair point, however I never experienced other than the healthiest of attitudes towards Na Gardai.

One question Whitey, in what part of the US do you live?
the checkpoints and speed cameras are definitely in place in NY, NJ, CT and DE, as well as red light cameras at intersections. Those fines go a long way towards paying the bills at many police departments, especially the last weekend of the month, when any broken tail light is a $80 in the bag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2014, 04:37:00 PM
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/11/28/tensions-mount-in-united-states-after-cops-shoot-black-friday/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/11/28/tensions-mount-in-united-states-after-cops-shoot-black-friday/)

TENSIONS have grown today in the USA, as reports began to emerge that members of the Police Department had shot and killed Black Friday.

Black Friday, the day following Thanksgiving, is traditionally known as the start of the Christmas shopping period in America. Many stores open early, and offer huge discounts leading to a massive surge in customers throughout the day. However, this huge increase in trade has on occasion resulted in violent outbursts from shoppers, leading many retailers to express concern and increase security for the day.

Following 911 calls yesterday from stores warning police that Black Friday was approaching, officers across all 50 states began firing their weapons until emergency services pronounced Black Friday to be dead. Calenders rolled straight into Saturday the 29th, causing a huge social upheaval which many fear will escalate into violent riots.

"Black Friday is a peaceful day, never did any harm to anybody, but all of a sudden the police just roll up and shoot it dead" said one furious shopper.

"They'll say they were just responding to a 911 call from concerned stores, but there's 51 other Fridays every year that don't get shot, and you and I know both know why; 'cause they ain't Black Friday. You don't ever hear about cops shooting no Good Friday".

Following the incident, the United States Justice department issued a statement in which it praised the bravery of the officers involved, and urged people across the nation to be calm following the unfortunate event.

"Early on Thanksgiving, we received calls from stores expressing their concern for the safety of both their staff and their customers, due to the impending arrival of Black Friday" said Jarrod Mackenzie, spokesperson for the Justice Department.

"Our officers quickly dealt with the situation, but when Black Friday continued to approach they had no choice but to resolve the matter using deadly force. People must appreciate the dangers faced by officers on duty, and I urge citizens to remain calm during these times".
Protests are expected to continue across the Thanksgiving weekend, as it was reported that officers involved in the shooting are to face no charges.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2014, 09:24:21 PM
That Killer Mike speech was very impressive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQs7CWKHM9w

http://www.nme.com/news/run-the-jewels/81347
•   
•   I would like to say Rest in Peace to Michael Brown. I would like to give all thoughts and prayers to the people out there peacefully protesting. I also give thoughts and prayers to the people who could not hold their anger in because riots are only the language of the unhold. We usually come on to Queen's 'Champion', but I just got to tell you today, no matter how much we do it, no matter how much we get shit together, shit comes along and kicks you on your ass. Tonight, I got kicked on my ass when I heard that prosecutor. You motherfuckers got me today, I knew it was coming when Eric Holder decided to resign. You motherfuckers got me today. You kicked me on my ass today, because I have a 20-year-old son and a 12-year-old son, and I'm so afraid for them today.

•   He continued: "When I stood on the bus, and I cried, and I hugged my friend, I said, 'These motherfuckers got me today.' When I stood in front of my wife, and I cried like a baby, I said, 'These motherfuckers got me today. You motherfuckers will not own tomorrow, we will not bend to your fear, we will not accept your pain, we are not going to keep playing that race card, because we know you don't value my skin. We know you do value his (El-P), but we're friends and nothing is going to devalue that."

"There was no peace in my heart and I wanted to walk out to 'Burn This Motherfucker Down'. But I got to tell you, I'm from Atlanta, Georgia, something said, 'Just look for something [Martin Luther King Jr] might have said,' so I Googled Martin King and Wikipedia popped up, and he was 39 years old when you motherfuckers killed him. He was the same age as I am, the same age as [El-P]. He was a young man when you killed him."

"But I can promise you today, if I die when I walk off this stage tomorrow, I'll let you know this: it is not about race, it is not a class, it's not about colour, it's about what they killed him for. It's about poverty, it's about greed, and it's about a war machine. It's about a war machine that uses you. So as I go tomorrow, I might go the day after, the one thing I want you to know is that it's us against the motherfucking machine!"



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2014, 09:26:55 PM
How Ferguson Became Ferguson


http://www.epi.org/publication/making-ferguson/


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1e769634-29e6-11e4-914f-00144feabdc0.html

Only two miles east of the outraged young black men on Florissant, on the white side of town, a waitress at the Ferguson Brewing Company dressed in a tie-dyed T-shirt and serving flatbread pizzas and hoppy India Pale Ale to a more well-heeled clientele confides to a reporter that she really hasn't been paying much attention to the protests.
"It barely feels like it's happening in this town," she says. "I don't really know anything about that area down there. I pretty much just stay up here."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 28, 2014, 09:58:55 PM
How Waterford became Waterford...


http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/behind-the-news-anti-roma-protests-in-waterford-1.1983698 (http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/behind-the-news-anti-roma-protests-in-waterford-1.1983698)

QuoteGaby Muntean moved to Ireland in 2000 with her husband, seeking out a better life. "I left my son with my mother because I didn't speak English and we were illegal. It was very hard in the beginning. We had a few friends here but no family."

Muntean says she wasn't [legally] able to leave Ireland until 2007 when Romania joined the EU. "Then, I was free to travel and my father brought my son here." For years, it was impossible for Gaby and her husband to get work. They lived in Cork, then in Newbridge and for 10 years in Kilcock before moving to Sallins where they now live.

"I couldn't get paid work so I started doing voluntary work for the Roma community here. I did training in cultural mediation and since 2013, I have been paid for my work which makes life much easier." Her son completed the Leaving Certificate earlier this year and applied to join the Garda but he was too young. "He's working now and he will re-apply to the Garda and I hope he can join it."

Muntean is aware of prejudice against Roma people and says that she was "very scared by the protests" and Facebook campaigns against the Roma community in Waterford. "I'm not saying there isn't any criminality in the Roma community, just like you can't say there isn't any in the Irish community, but every bad thing that happens is blamed on the Roma or the Traveller community."

Speaking of how Roma are associated with begging, she says, "Some Roma people are forced to beg because they can't read or write or speak English. How else can they maintain themselves? I don't think it's a pleasure to be outside on the streets begging, but Roma people aren't homeless because we live together and protect each other."

Mantean says that she prefers not to dress in traditional Roma clothing when in public. "I try to blend in with others but at home, I do. I am proud to be a Roma woman and sometimes, I want to show people who I am and that not all Roma people are bad."

There is an estimated 5,000 Roma living here. They come from all over Eastern Europe – Hungary, Romania, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Germany.

"People ask me why we are outsiders? But we are not allowed into shops and pubs so what can we do? We are very close as a community but we don't trust authority." That said, many Roma people have become Irish citizens and have children who are Irish citizens. "There needs to be a better strategy for Roma people in Ireland," says Muntean.

Siobhan Curran, Roma project co-ordinator at Pavee Point Traveller and Roma Centre in Dublin, agrees. "The current strategy doesn't have any time- frame, goals or funding mechanisms. The European Commission asked every country in the EU to develop a Roma strategy but Ireland's strategy has been very poor compared to other countries."

Curran says the case where a Roma child was taken from her family in Athlone earlier this year highlighted stereotyping. "Before the DNA test confirmed the child was from that family, there was talk of Roma people being child traffickers. Stereotypes don't serve us well. There is no justification for 'hate crime' against Roma people. Attacks in other European countries have included several murders of Roma people. We don't want this to be a feature in Ireland."

Curran adds, "We need legislation to prevent online hate speeches and Facebook hate campaigns, and a strong National Traveller-Roma Integration Strategy on education, employment, healthcare and housing and racism."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2014, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 28, 2014, 09:58:55 PM
How Waterford became Waterford...


http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/behind-the-news-anti-roma-protests-in-waterford-1.1983698 (http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/behind-the-news-anti-roma-protests-in-waterford-1.1983698)

QuoteGaby Muntean moved to Ireland in 2000 with her husband, seeking out a better life. "I left my son with my mother because I didn't speak English and we were illegal. It was very hard in the beginning. We had a few friends here but no family."

Muntean says she wasn't [legally] able to leave Ireland until 2007 when Romania joined the EU. "Then, I was free to travel and my father brought my son here." For years, it was impossible for Gaby and her husband to get work. They lived in Cork, then in Newbridge and for 10 years in Kilcock before moving to Sallins where they now live.

"I couldn't get paid work so I started doing voluntary work for the Roma community here. I did training in cultural mediation and since 2013, I have been paid for my work which makes life much easier." Her son completed the Leaving Certificate earlier this year and applied to join the Garda but he was too young. "He's working now and he will re-apply to the Garda and I hope he can join it."

Muntean is aware of prejudice against Roma people and says that she was "very scared by the protests" and Facebook campaigns against the Roma community in Waterford. "I'm not saying there isn't any criminality in the Roma community, just like you can't say there isn't any in the Irish community, but every bad thing that happens is blamed on the Roma or the Traveller community."

Speaking of how Roma are associated with begging, she says, "Some Roma people are forced to beg because they can't read or write or speak English. How else can they maintain themselves? I don't think it's a pleasure to be outside on the streets begging, but Roma people aren't homeless because we live together and protect each other."

Mantean says that she prefers not to dress in traditional Roma clothing when in public. "I try to blend in with others but at home, I do. I am proud to be a Roma woman and sometimes, I want to show people who I am and that not all Roma people are bad."

There is an estimated 5,000 Roma living here. They come from all over Eastern Europe – Hungary, Romania, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Germany.

"People ask me why we are outsiders? But we are not allowed into shops and pubs so what can we do? We are very close as a community but we don't trust authority." That said, many Roma people have become Irish citizens and have children who are Irish citizens. "There needs to be a better strategy for Roma people in Ireland," says Muntean.

Siobhan Curran, Roma project co-ordinator at Pavee Point Traveller and Roma Centre in Dublin, agrees. "The current strategy doesn't have any time- frame, goals or funding mechanisms. The European Commission asked every country in the EU to develop a Roma strategy but Ireland's strategy has been very poor compared to other countries."

Curran says the case where a Roma child was taken from her family in Athlone earlier this year highlighted stereotyping. "Before the DNA test confirmed the child was from that family, there was talk of Roma people being child traffickers. Stereotypes don't serve us well. There is no justification for 'hate crime' against Roma people. Attacks in other European countries have included several murders of Roma people. We don't want this to be a feature in Ireland."

Curran adds, "We need legislation to prevent online hate speeches and Facebook hate campaigns, and a strong National Traveller-Roma Integration Strategy on education, employment, healthcare and housing and racism."
It has to be an academic article, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 28, 2014, 10:23:20 PM
from the Padraig Nally thread..


http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25206.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25206.0)

containing the following comments....

Quote from: haveaharp on October 26, 2014, 01:29:39 PM
Totally agree. Especially when the intruder is a gypo.

Quote from: BennyCake on October 26, 2014, 08:56:50 PM
You obviously haven't encountered many gypos in your time.

Quote from: BennyCake on October 26, 2014, 11:17:39 PM
Gypos are a scourge in this country. They had that man tortured. They do likewise all over the country, robbing, thieving, intimidating and doing whatever the fcuk they want. I have no sympathy for that Ward fella. None whatsoever. Nor would I for any other gypo who met his end in the same way.

Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2014, 07:50:00 PM
Solution (the humane one, anyway) - gypo island.


which passed without comment by the same usual suspects that constantly berate the US about race relations.

Consistency....someday it might come to gaaboard. We live in hope.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 28, 2014, 10:32:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2014, 10:21:35 PM
It has to be an academic article, I'm afraid.
Since you were the one that started the Padraig Nally thread that I mentioned in my last post and since you seemed to completely ignore the obvious racism contained it it perhaps you'd like to share with us your considered, academic opinion as to why you are so inconsistent about your views on discrimination.

Maybe you could submit a paper "A discriminates guide to discrimination and dog whistle politics"...by Dr. Seafoid..Ballinasloe IT
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 28, 2014, 11:39:26 PM
and the Roma just happened to be the other major victims of holocaust in the second world war

....just sayin like....

...I'm not implying any strange inconsistencies about what is considered racism and what passes completely without comment......


...you are educated folk....you work it out.......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2014, 03:35:26 AM
Lotta tangents going on here so I will try to keep it concise

(1) My comment re Gardai Sicohana being Guardians of the Peace is not something I concocted myself. I originally heard it at a lecture given by Renowned academic and prominent Sociologist Fr Michael MacGreil about 20 years ago. given my interest in politics and history I did some follow up reading and found ample evidence to back up his theory. Of course he could be flat out wrong!

(2) I have lived outside Boston for 13 years and lived in CT for 5 years before that. I drive 35000 miles per year for work and have NEVER once  seen a speed camera. Thats not to say they don't pull people over...but they use discretion...especially for speeding. If you're going less than 10 mph over the limit they won't stop you (exceptions are school zones and construction zones). I have read  and heard of speed cameras in Ireland nailing people for 2-3 Mph over the speed limit.

(3) Re respect for the law...I have the local weekly newspaper sent over from Ireland and I would say at least once a month there some case of a drunk abusing Gardai at closing time outside a chipper or nightclub. In my 20 years in the US I have never once seen a drunk breate or abuse a cop and believe me I used to be out ALL the time in some pretty rough pubs.

I was back in Ireland for Christmas a few years ago and the local Garda Traffic Corps were involved in a very serious accident. I was in a pub the following day and I heard a respectable older gentleman remark..."it's a pity the cvnts weren't killed". Completely anecdotal I know, but absolutely reinforces the opinion of the Guards of a lot of the people I know back in Ireland .

(4) The whole Ferguson thing doesn't add up. What would a kid who's never been in trouble before, rob a store, block traffic by walking in the middle of the road, then assault a cop and try to take his gun? There's something off about the whole thing and I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet, but I will tell you, if anyone posting on this board attempted to wrestle a gun from a cop, we would have met the same fate as Mike Brown....regardless of the color of our skin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2014, 08:37:54 AM
(1) What theory? A history of the Gárdaí from 1922 - 1932 is not relevant to today's policing anywhere. In the context of your guardians of the peace argument, the irony that Eoin O'Duffy was in charge during that time will not be lost on some here.

(2) You are likely to get thrown straight into jail in some States if you are far enough over the limit. That would be extremely rare here. But again what is the point of this argument?

(3) So drunks in the US respect the police but drunks in Ireland don't? Even if this was universal and accurate (and remotely in the vicinity of being a fact), again what is the point here?

(4) The facts are an unarmed man was shot dead. It is a fact he stole $48 dollars worth of cigars. It appears he was walking not on the sidewalk. They are the established facts. There is other information which has contradictory accounts and thus can't be considered as 'facts'. You are still searching for something to justify this instant execution and your comment about trying to wrestle a gun from a cop is not an undisputed fact either. This comment also ignores that the cop was safe when an already shot and injured Brown was running (or stumbling) away from him. The cop was ordering him to stop, which he did. What happened next is again disputed but it seems unlikely that an already shot and injured, unarmed 18 year old man was really that much of a threat to a fit & well, 6' 4" cop with a gun.

Arguing about whether Brown was a model citizen is missing the point entirely and seems to be the way these things go in this modern era of spin. And boy are people easily spun. The issue is the burden of responsibility on police officer before he can decide to empty his gun into a citizen. That is the only issue here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 29, 2014, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 08:37:54 AM
(1) What theory? A history of the Gárdaí from 1922 - 1932 is not relevant to today's policing anywhere. In the context of your guardians of the peace argument, the irony that Eoin O'Duffy was in charge during that time will not be lost on some here.

(2) You are likely to get thrown straight into jail in some States if you are far enough over the limit. That would be extremely rare here. But again what is the point of this argument?

(3) So drunks in the US respect the police but drunks in Ireland don't? Even if this was universal and accurate (and remotely in the vicinity of being a fact), again what is the point here?

(4) The facts are an unarmed man was shot dead. It is a fact he stole $48 dollars worth of cigars. It appears he was walking not on the sidewalk. They are the established facts. There is other information which has contradictory accounts and thus can't be considered as 'facts'. You are still searching for something to justify this instant execution and your comment about trying to wrestle a gun from a cop is not an undisputed fact either. This comment also ignores that the cop was safe when an already shot and injured Brown was running (or stumbling) away from him. The cop was ordering him to stop, which he did. What happened next is again disputed but it seems unlikely that an already shot and injured, unarmed 18 year old man was really that much of a threat to a fit & well, 6' 4" cop with a gun.

Arguing about whether Brown was a model citizen is missing the point entirely and seems to be the way these things go in this modern era of spin. And boy are people easily spun. The issue is the burden of responsibility on police officer before he can decide to empty his gun into a citizen. That is the only issue here.

Muppet - I think there is also the system issue. This happens all the time . White cop shoots black man.

The Feds didn't shoot Cliven Bundy dead when he broke the law

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79xKxWbBYcw

Fox didn't drag his name through the mud either. the Tea Party didn't condemn him- they loved him

Killer Mike said it

"But I can promise you today, if I die when I walk off this stage tomorrow, I'll let you know this: it is not about race, it is not a class, it's not about colour, it's about what they killed him for. It's about poverty, it's about greed, and it's about a war machine. It's about a war machine that uses you. So as I go tomorrow, I might go the day after, the one thing I want you to know is that it's us against the motherfucking machine!"

And James Baldwin had another good point

"Ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on November 29, 2014, 10:21:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 03:35:26 AM
Lotta tangents going on here so I will try to keep it concise

(1) My comment re Gardai Sicohana being Guardians of the Peace is not something I concocted myself. I originally heard it at a lecture given by Renowned academic and prominent Sociologist Fr Michael MacGreil about 20 years ago. given my interest in politics and history I did some follow up reading and found ample evidence to back up his theory. Of course he could be flat out wrong!

(2) I have lived outside Boston for 13 years and lived in CT for 5 years before that. I drive 35000 miles per year for work and have NEVER once  seen a speed camera. Thats not to say they don't pull people over...but they use discretion...especially for speeding. If you're going less than 10 mph over the limit they won't stop you (exceptions are school zones and construction zones). I have read  and heard of speed cameras in Ireland nailing people for 2-3 Mph over the speed limit.

(3) Re respect for the law...I have the local weekly newspaper sent over from Ireland and I would say at least once a month there some case of a drunk abusing Gardai at closing time outside a chipper or nightclub. In my 20 years in the US I have never once seen a drunk breate or abuse a cop and believe me I used to be out ALL the time in some pretty rough pubs.

I was back in Ireland for Christmas a few years ago and the local Garda Traffic Corps were involved in a very serious accident. I was in a pub the following day and I heard a respectable older gentleman remark..."it's a pity the cvnts weren't killed". Completely anecdotal I know, but absolutely reinforces the opinion of the Guards of a lot of the people I know back in Ireland .

(4) The whole Ferguson thing doesn't add up. What would a kid who's never been in trouble before, rob a store, block traffic by walking in the middle of the road, then assault a cop and try to take his gun? There's something off about the whole thing and I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet, but I will tell you, if anyone posting on this board attempted to wrestle a gun from a cop, we would have met the same fate as Mike Brown....regardless of the color of our skin

Been living in NY 12 years now. Both your points in bold are wrong.  NY is littered with speed cameras, they are everywhere.  State troopers are steady with speed cameras out on all major routes in and out of city.
As for cops at closing time, the irish community in Yonkers has suffered at the hands of bully cops.  Several young irish lads has took beatings from off duty cops while their buddies sat in their patrol cars watching.
Uniformed cops patrol the area on saturday nights just like the RUC used to do in the North, intimidating young people and looking any excuse to arrest someone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 10:48:45 AM
This is quite shocking. For a nation where emigration has been a fact of life for generations why are we so intolerant toward immigrants to our own country ? There must be something systematic or perhaps something in the national character that causes us to have a complete blind spot to our own failings ??

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/huge-increase-in-racist-behaviour-in-ireland-29818634.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/huge-increase-in-racist-behaviour-in-ireland-29818634.html)
QuoteHuge increase in racist behaviour in Ireland

THE number of people targeted by racist behaviour has almost doubled over the last year, new figures have revealed.

The Immigrant Council of Ireland described the 85% rise in racist incidents as "stark", with a fifth of attacks happening in the home or local community.

Chief executive Denise Charlton said while the figures that reflect the past 11 months are preliminary, the hike is still alarming.

"These initial findings show that racism can occur anywhere, people have been made victims in their own homes, at work, on the street and increasingly online," Ms Charlton said.

"We will now carry out analysis of the figures to see why our current laws are not preventing racism and examine what procedures can be in put place, including a reformed reporting system."

Some 142 racist incidents have been reported since January, compared with 77 over the same period last year

A YouTube video was posted of the man launching into a shocking racist attack on a London Underground train.

Keith Hurdle has admitted shouting verbal abuse at Kuniko Ingram, who works in human resources.

He left tube passengers horrified with his foul-mouthed rant after he claimed that the Japanese are a "vicious bunch of f****** c****."

Hurdle said his uncle died in the River Kwai during World War II, and accused the passenger of torturing him.

He was sentenced to 12 weeks in prison. He will serve half the time on licence.

Meanwhile, in Ireland, harassment, discrimination and physical violence were all reported to the council, with 31 incidents recorded in July alone.

While 21% of incidents occurred at the victim's home or in their local community, 20% happened in the workplace, 14% on the street, 12% while accessing government or community services, 12% online, 10% while travelling in public transport and the remainder elsewhere.

Verbal harassment accounted for more than a third of all types of abuse, followed by some form of discrimination at 24% and written harassment at 17%.

Just under one in 10 victims of racism were physically assaulted, 7% were targeted with damage to their property or graffiti and 7% with an offensive look or gesture.

Ms Charlton said the Immigrant Council had spent the last year pushing an awareness campaign on public transport and across social media to put an end to the complacency over racism.

"Our hope is that the increase we have reported is an indication that this has happened rather than an actual increase in racism," she said.

The council's information and referral manager Brian Killoran described the last 11 months as unprecedented in terms of the numbers reporting racist behaviour.

"People need to be continuously assured that they will be treated seriously when they make a report and that action will be taken," he said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 11:06:17 AM
Christ, I'm glad we are discussing this issue lads. The more you look into it the more you see the hidden systematic failures of the state

http://www.wsm.ie/book/export/html/7672 (http://www.wsm.ie/book/export/html/7672)

QuoteWhen the subject of power was brought up in discussion, the lads would say everything to do with gardaí, being working-class and living in a council estate is all about power networks.  The gardaí have the power and know exactly how to use it in certain situations.  The lads spoke about the "net" or being "netted" and this is, the lads explained, one of the gardaí's strongest tactics and one that can result in dangerous consequences for working-class youths.

QuoteThe lads in the group spoke repeatedly about how there was no real middle ground in this situation and how this is the ground or the intersection of community policing where the gardaí really abused their power.
"It works this way, if a garda sees you talking to a group of lads he might stop the car and shout at you 'hey crack head, call up and see us again, like you did last week for a chat'.  This is all they have to say, the only saviour is that the lads you're with know what the Guards are like and know their tactics because it's been done to them".

Quote"Towards the end of 2007, a young man, aged nineteen, from a deprived neighbourhood came to tell me that on the previous day he had been taken to a Garda Station for a drugs search, during the course of which he had been assaulted by several gardaí.  When no drugs were found on him, he was told to leave.  He claimed that as he was leaving he was shoved forcefully towards the door by a garda, which caused his head to smash the glass panel of the door.  He said that he was then brought back into the Garda Station and charged with assaulting the garda and causing criminal damage to the door".

QuoteAnother issue that come up in discussion was the shooting of a youth in an ATM robbery.  The comments here were on how the papers praised the gardaí's actions,
"We know he was in the wrong but there was no need to kill him, no one knew anything about him.  He was alright he was, he just got desperate, he just became disposable.  The papers were full of back slapping for the brave guards involved.  Do you know what the papers said?  They said "This was a brave and successful bit of work by our force".


I had no idea there was such widespread abuse of power by the Gardaí...but, sure, how would anyone know since these things are never discussed. Much more fun to bash the yanks I suppose.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 11:27:29 AM
How does the issue of racism in Ireland (which I agree is ornament and widespread) detract from the issue of racism in the states?

Your attempt to suggest everyone here is pulling the wool over their eyes about racism in Ireland is bullshit ("you are completely shit" as you might say). There was an entire thread devoted to the question of whether Ireland is racist or not. This thread is specifically about the US so take your misguided attempt at diluting the debate elsewhere. You might fancy yourself as a polemicist or academic - in reality you're nothing more than a troll.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 11:38:42 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 11:27:29 AM
How does the issue of racism in Ireland (which I agree is ornament and widespread) detract from the issue of racism in the states?

Your attempt to suggest everyone here is pulling the wool over their eyes about racism in Ireland is bullshit ("you are completely shit" as you might say). There was an entire thread devoted to the question of whether Ireland is resist or not. This thread is specifically about the US so take your misguided attempt at diluting the debate elsewhere. You might fancy yourself as a polemicist or academic - in reality you're nothing more than a troll.

Really ? 130 pages discussing the failings of a country 3000 miles away and nothing about the endemic racism in Ireland ?

Surely there is something fishy going on ? Perhaps a not so hidden agenda ...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 11:41:49 AM
Also, this is a thread about US politics...why are you discussing a police shooting ?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 11:47:49 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 11:38:42 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 11:27:29 AM
How does the issue of racism in Ireland (which I agree is ornament and widespread) detract from the issue of racism in the states?

Your attempt to suggest everyone here is pulling the wool over their eyes about racism in Ireland is bullshit ("you are completely shit" as you might say). There was an entire thread devoted to the question of whether Ireland is resist or not. This thread is specifically about the US so take your misguided attempt at diluting the debate elsewhere. You might fancy yourself as a polemicist or academic - in reality you're nothing more than a troll.

Really ? 130 pages discussing the failings of a country 3000 miles away and nothing about the endemic racism in Ireland ?

Surely there is something fishy going on ? Perhaps a not so hidden agenda ...?

As I said - there was a thread about racism in Ireland. Go look it up if you want.

Personally, I find Kerry f**kers to be the most racist c***ts of all in Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 11:55:52 AM
You know full well that there is a deep, abiding hatred of the US amongst certain people on here and this thread (and many others) are simply an excuse for them to vent their prejudice. As someone who has lived in the US for many years and who has friends, relatives, coworkers that are American I simply cannot stand by and allow their obvious and blatant xenophobia to go unchallenged.

And it is telling that you resort to insults when challenged. 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 12:08:52 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 11:55:52 AM
You know full well that there is a deep, abiding hatred of the US amongst certain people on here and this thread (and many others) are simply an excuse for them to vent their prejudice. As someone who has lived in the US for many years and who has friends, relatives, coworkers that are American I simply cannot stand by and allow their obvious and blatant xenophobia to go unchallenged.

And it is telling that you resort to insults when challenged.

So? Does that mean the rest of us can't discuss it without you landing in to attempt to label us in a way that suits your agenda?

Do all countries have problems of politics/race/economy etc etc? Yes. Does the US? Yes. Is the US the last remaining superpower and hence of particular interest to the rest of the world, especially those in Anglophone countries? Yes. Is it therefore a topic that people should be entitled to debate without being accused of ignoring latent (and in some cases blatant, yes) xenophobia and racism in Ireland? Yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 12:28:13 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 12:08:52 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 11:55:52 AM
You know full well that there is a deep, abiding hatred of the US amongst certain people on here and this thread (and many others) are simply an excuse for them to vent their prejudice. As someone who has lived in the US for many years and who has friends, relatives, coworkers that are American I simply cannot stand by and allow their obvious and blatant xenophobia to go unchallenged.

And it is telling that you resort to insults when challenged.

So? Does that mean the rest of us can't discuss it without you landing in to attempt to label us in a way that suits your agenda?

Do all countries have problems of politics/race/economy etc etc? Yes. Does the US? Yes. Is the US the last remaining superpower and hence of particular interest to the rest of the world, especially those in Anglophone countries? Yes. Is it therefore a topic that people should be entitled to debate without being accused of ignoring latent (and in some cases blatant, yes) xenophobia and racism in Ireland? Yes.

No, I am all for discussion but  there must be some consistency. I am perfectly fine with there being more focus on Anglophone countries , that is natural, but the lack of balance has reached ridiculous proportions.

Also, as I said, certain people on here have an agenda. If the discussions about incidents were about the incidents themselves, fine,  but what I see happen everytime is that there are attempts to expand the discussion in a way that reinforces certain geopolitical viewpoints and prejudices so one minute you are talking about a police shooting and the next minute drug companies or war machine rhetoric gets dragged into the discussion. These things are not accidental.

so, either you lads are very naïve and get played like puppets everytime or else you share the same base prejudices. Sometimes it is very hard to tell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 12:50:13 PM
As I said before - there is a thread on racism in Ireland. It is discussed frequently, and, in my opinion, condemned much more often than not. Look at the condemnation of the abuse Anna Lo suffered for example.

This particular discussion focuses on the US and events in Ferguson. Why would anyone casting an opinion on it be forced to look through at it through an Irish lens? You're simply trying to work in an angle where there isn't one.

On the flip side of things, it rather appears you're trying to brush off or ignore racism that exists in the States with an attitude of "sort out your own house first lads". They're not mutually exclusive. At the end of the day, an unarmed black teenager was shot by a white cop. This is a tragedy, regardless of what people might think about the findings of the grand jury. THe day before the grand jury verdict was announced, an unarmed 12 year black boy was shot dead by a white cop. This is the perfect time to discuss race relations, policing mindset, gun control etc. Your attempts to distract from that don't make it any less true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2014, 01:06:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 08:37:54 AM
(1) What theory? A history of the Gárdaí from 1922 - 1932 is not relevant to today's policing anywhere. In the context of your guardians of the peace argument, the irony that Eoin O'Duffy was in charge during that time will not be lost on some here.

(2) You are likely to get thrown straight into jail in some States if you are far enough over the limit. That would be extremely rare here. But again what is the point of this argument?

(3) So drunks in the US respect the police but drunks in Ireland don't? Even if this was universal and accurate (and remotely in the vicinity of being a fact), again what is the point here?

(4) The facts are an unarmed man was shot dead. It is a fact he stole $48 dollars worth of cigars. It appears he was walking not on the sidewalk. They are the established facts. There is other information which has contradictory accounts and thus can't be considered as 'facts'. You are still searching for something to justify this instant execution and your comment about trying to wrestle a gun from a cop is not an undisputed fact either. This comment also ignores that the cop was safe when an already shot and injured Brown was running (or stumbling) away from him. The cop was ordering him to stop, which he did. What happened next is again disputed but it seems unlikely that an already shot and injured, unarmed 18 year old man was really that much of a threat to a fit & well, 6' 4" cop with a gun.

Arguing about whether Brown was a model citizen is missing the point entirely and seems to be the way these things go in this modern era of spin. And boy are people easily spun. The issue is the burden of responsibility on police officer before he can decide to empty his gun into a citizen. That is the only issue here.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.....I have found policing in the states to be even handed and fair as long as you're respectful and compliant.  My experience in Ireland has been that law enforcement is all about catching people out and generating revenue...but again that's just an opinion based on 20 years real life experience.

The Irish unfortunately let themselves down wherever they go.  Whether it's wrecking campsites like they did when I was in Munich in 1992, or the disgraceful carry on in Australia or those idiots in San Francisco who destroyed that lady's house. Im making an assumption here Carmen, but what is the behavior of the Irish like in Yonkers that elicits such a response from the cops?

Browns DNA was on the gun...make of it what you want....I know what my conclusions are, and you are free to make other conclusions.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2014, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 01:06:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 08:37:54 AM
(1) What theory? A history of the Gárdaí from 1922 - 1932 is not relevant to today's policing anywhere. In the context of your guardians of the peace argument, the irony that Eoin O'Duffy was in charge during that time will not be lost on some here.

(2) You are likely to get thrown straight into jail in some States if you are far enough over the limit. That would be extremely rare here. But again what is the point of this argument?

(3) So drunks in the US respect the police but drunks in Ireland don't? Even if this was universal and accurate (and remotely in the vicinity of being a fact), again what is the point here?

(4) The facts are an unarmed man was shot dead. It is a fact he stole $48 dollars worth of cigars. It appears he was walking not on the sidewalk. They are the established facts. There is other information which has contradictory accounts and thus can't be considered as 'facts'. You are still searching for something to justify this instant execution and your comment about trying to wrestle a gun from a cop is not an undisputed fact either. This comment also ignores that the cop was safe when an already shot and injured Brown was running (or stumbling) away from him. The cop was ordering him to stop, which he did. What happened next is again disputed but it seems unlikely that an already shot and injured, unarmed 18 year old man was really that much of a threat to a fit & well, 6' 4" cop with a gun.

Arguing about whether Brown was a model citizen is missing the point entirely and seems to be the way these things go in this modern era of spin. And boy are people easily spun. The issue is the burden of responsibility on police officer before he can decide to empty his gun into a citizen. That is the only issue here.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.....I have found policing in the states to be even handed and fair as long as you're respectful and compliant.  My experience in Ireland has been that law enforcement is all about catching people out and generating revenue...but again that's just an opinion based on 20 years real life experience.

The Irish unfortunately let themselves down wherever they go.  Whether it's wrecking campsites like they did when I was in Munich in 1992, or the disgraceful carry on in Australia or those idiots in San Francisco who destroyed that lady's house. Im making an assumption here Carmen, but what is the behavior of the Irish like in Yonkers that elicits such a response from the cops?

Browns DNA was on the gun...make of it what you want....I know what my conclusions are, and you are free to make other conclusions.

So he deserved to be shot to death?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2014, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 01:06:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 08:37:54 AM
(1) What theory? A history of the Gárdaí from 1922 - 1932 is not relevant to today's policing anywhere. In the context of your guardians of the peace argument, the irony that Eoin O'Duffy was in charge during that time will not be lost on some here.

(2) You are likely to get thrown straight into jail in some States if you are far enough over the limit. That would be extremely rare here. But again what is the point of this argument?

(3) So drunks in the US respect the police but drunks in Ireland don't? Even if this was universal and accurate (and remotely in the vicinity of being a fact), again what is the point here?

(4) The facts are an unarmed man was shot dead. It is a fact he stole $48 dollars worth of cigars. It appears he was walking not on the sidewalk. They are the established facts. There is other information which has contradictory accounts and thus can't be considered as 'facts'. You are still searching for something to justify this instant execution and your comment about trying to wrestle a gun from a cop is not an undisputed fact either. This comment also ignores that the cop was safe when an already shot and injured Brown was running (or stumbling) away from him. The cop was ordering him to stop, which he did. What happened next is again disputed but it seems unlikely that an already shot and injured, unarmed 18 year old man was really that much of a threat to a fit & well, 6' 4" cop with a gun.

Arguing about whether Brown was a model citizen is missing the point entirely and seems to be the way these things go in this modern era of spin. And boy are people easily spun. The issue is the burden of responsibility on police officer before he can decide to empty his gun into a citizen. That is the only issue here.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.....I have found policing in the states to be even handed and fair as long as you're respectful and compliant.  My experience in Ireland has been that law enforcement is all about catching people out and generating revenue...but again that's just an opinion based on 20 years real life experience.

The Irish unfortunately let themselves down wherever they go.  Whether it's wrecking campsites like they did when I was in Munich in 1992, or the disgraceful carry on in Australia or those idiots in San Francisco who destroyed that lady's house. Im making an assumption here Carmen, but what is the behavior of the Irish like in Yonkers that elicits such a response from the cops?

Browns DNA was on the gun...make of it what you want....I know what my conclusions are, and you are free to make other conclusions.

So he deserved to be shot to death?

If he assaulted a police officer and attempted to take his gun.....then my answer is yes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 01:30:03 PM
So having already shot him and presumably therefore eliminated the threat, he should continue to shoot to kill.

Interesting, and horrifying, perspective.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2014, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 01:06:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 08:37:54 AM
(1) What theory? A history of the Gárdaí from 1922 - 1932 is not relevant to today's policing anywhere. In the context of your guardians of the peace argument, the irony that Eoin O'Duffy was in charge during that time will not be lost on some here.

(2) You are likely to get thrown straight into jail in some States if you are far enough over the limit. That would be extremely rare here. But again what is the point of this argument?

(3) So drunks in the US respect the police but drunks in Ireland don't? Even if this was universal and accurate (and remotely in the vicinity of being a fact), again what is the point here?

(4) The facts are an unarmed man was shot dead. It is a fact he stole $48 dollars worth of cigars. It appears he was walking not on the sidewalk. They are the established facts. There is other information which has contradictory accounts and thus can't be considered as 'facts'. You are still searching for something to justify this instant execution and your comment about trying to wrestle a gun from a cop is not an undisputed fact either. This comment also ignores that the cop was safe when an already shot and injured Brown was running (or stumbling) away from him. The cop was ordering him to stop, which he did. What happened next is again disputed but it seems unlikely that an already shot and injured, unarmed 18 year old man was really that much of a threat to a fit & well, 6' 4" cop with a gun.

Arguing about whether Brown was a model citizen is missing the point entirely and seems to be the way these things go in this modern era of spin. And boy are people easily spun. The issue is the burden of responsibility on police officer before he can decide to empty his gun into a citizen. That is the only issue here.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.....I have found policing in the states to be even handed and fair as long as you're respectful and compliant.  My experience in Ireland has been that law enforcement is all about catching people out and generating revenue...but again that's just an opinion based on 20 years real life experience.

The Irish unfortunately let themselves down wherever they go.  Whether it's wrecking campsites like they did when I was in Munich in 1992, or the disgraceful carry on in Australia or those idiots in San Francisco who destroyed that lady's house. Im making an assumption here Carmen, but what is the behavior of the Irish like in Yonkers that elicits such a response from the cops?

Browns DNA was on the gun...make of it what you want....I know what my conclusions are, and you are free to make other conclusions.

So he deserved to be shot to death?

If he assaulted a police officer and attempted to take his gun.....then my answer is yes

Fair enough.

Wilson fired 12 shots, 6 hitting Brown, which is remarkable if his gun was being taken off him.

So my answer would be no. Not on the current evidence.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 29, 2014, 01:32:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 01:06:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 08:37:54 AM
(1) What theory? A history of the Gárdaí from 1922 - 1932 is not relevant to today's policing anywhere. In the context of your guardians of the peace argument, the irony that Eoin O'Duffy was in charge during that time will not be lost on some here.

(2) You are likely to get thrown straight into jail in some States if you are far enough over the limit. That would be extremely rare here. But again what is the point of this argument?

(3) So drunks in the US respect the police but drunks in Ireland don't? Even if this was universal and accurate (and remotely in the vicinity of being a fact), again what is the point here?

(4) The facts are an unarmed man was shot dead. It is a fact he stole $48 dollars worth of cigars. It appears he was walking not on the sidewalk. They are the established facts. There is other information which has contradictory accounts and thus can't be considered as 'facts'. You are still searching for something to justify this instant execution and your comment about trying to wrestle a gun from a cop is not an undisputed fact either. This comment also ignores that the cop was safe when an already shot and injured Brown was running (or stumbling) away from him. The cop was ordering him to stop, which he did. What happened next is again disputed but it seems unlikely that an already shot and injured, unarmed 18 year old man was really that much of a threat to a fit & well, 6' 4" cop with a gun.

Arguing about whether Brown was a model citizen is missing the point entirely and seems to be the way these things go in this modern era of spin. And boy are people easily spun. The issue is the burden of responsibility on police officer before he can decide to empty his gun into a citizen. That is the only issue here.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.....I have found policing in the states to be even handed and fair as long as you're respectful and compliant.  My experience in Ireland has been that law enforcement is all about catching people out and generating revenue...but again that's just an opinion based on 20 years real life experience.

The Irish unfortunately let themselves down wherever they go.  Whether it's wrecking campsites like they did when I was in Munich in 1992, or the disgraceful carry on in Australia or those idiots in San Francisco who destroyed that lady's house. Im making an assumption here Carmen, but what is the behavior of the Irish like in Yonkers that elicits such a response from the cops?

Browns DNA was on the gun...make of it what you want....I know what my conclusions are, and you are free to make other conclusions.

So he deserved to be shot to death?

If he assaulted a police officer and attempted to take his gun.....then my answer is yes

Ah jesus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 29, 2014, 02:12:45 PM
The Eric Garner case is coming up for grand jury soon. Thats the one where the cop put a big black guy in Staten Island in a choke hold and he collapsed and died, all for the massive public safety offense of illegally selling packets of cigarettes.  If that cop doesn't go to trial,  I don't know what will happen, the offense is so blatant.  But, who honestly will be shocked if another police killing of an unarmed black man goes unpunished?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
If you believe the findings of the grand jury and evidence of credible eye witnesses who testified under oath who said that Brown turned back and was charging the officer, then yes, Wilsons actions were justified.

If you don't believe the findings of he grand jury and (believe the testimony of the less reliable Witt eases who changed their stories numerous times)....then obviously you will have a different opinion

That's what they are opinions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 03:18:02 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 12:50:13 PM
As I said before - there is a thread on racism in Ireland. It is discussed frequently, and, in my opinion, condemned much more often than not. Look at the condemnation of the abuse Anna Lo suffered for example.

This particular discussion focuses on the US and events in Ferguson. Why would anyone casting an opinion on it be forced to look through at it through an Irish lens? You're simply trying to work in an angle where there isn't one.

On the flip side of things, it rather appears you're trying to brush off or ignore racism that exists in the States with an attitude of "sort out your own house first lads". They're not mutually exclusive. At the end of the day, an unarmed black teenager was shot by a white cop. This is a tragedy, regardless of what people might think about the findings of the grand jury. THe day before the grand jury verdict was announced, an unarmed 12 year black boy was shot dead by a white cop. This is the perfect time to discuss race relations, policing mindset, gun control etc. Your attempts to distract from that don't make it any less true.

I have lived in the states for 20 years. I know what life is like day to day, everyday so I am far more qualified than you to assess how racist , or not , American society so please don't talk to me about "ignoring" racism in the US.

America most definitely has a problem with racism but they do confront the issue and it is debated all the time. No country in the world discusses race more than the US .That robust, honest debate also plays out in full view of the world. This is a good thing. This is a sign of a healthy, even if flawed, society. However, this can also be used by those with an anti-US agenda to paint a relentlessy negative picture of the place. It means that  the  "perfect time to discuss race relations" ,as you put it,  always coincides with incidents happen in the US. Meanwhile the term "gypo" gets used repeatedly in a thread  and passes without comment by the same individuals that constantly latch onto race incidents in the US. There is obviously something going on there. It is blatant.

So, by all means go ahead an discuss the flaws of US society to your hearts content but stop pretending that the discussion that goes on here is purely about justice or injustice or the incidents themselves. There are some deep seated prejudices at play here and they have nothing to do with Michael Brown.

Also, and I'm not having a go here as I'm sure there is no malice intended and you have made a decent effort at debating the issue , but you should probably remove the signature under your posts if you want to discuss race relations in the US. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 03:28:24 PM
a) The signature is a quote from my favourite character in a TV show that has received universal acclaim from all elements of society in the US. If it's good enough for them, I'll not worry too much about your thoughts on it and leave it as it is. If I'd quoted Shane McGowan singing, ironically, about "blacks and packs and jocks" you'd have said nowt.

b) There were numerous retorts to not just the repeated use of the word "gypo", but also the underlying sentiments. As there are any time somebody on the board talks about Pakistanis, Chinese, Jews, gays, prods etc etc. Selectively quoting things helps your argument in no way whatsoever, especially when contrasted with your sneering, patronising comment about me making a "decent effort at debating the issue". You are a hypocrite of the highest order.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 04:09:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 03:28:24 PM
a) The signature is a quote from my favourite character in a TV show that has received universal acclaim from all elements of society in the US. If it's good enough for them, I'll not worry too much about your thoughts on it and leave it as it is. If I'd quoted Shane McGowan singing, ironically, about "blacks and packs and jocks" you'd have said nowt.

b) There were numerous retorts to not just the repeated use of the word "gypo", but also the underlying sentiments. As there are any time somebody on the board talks about Pakistanis, Chinese, Jews, gays, prods etc etc. Selectively quoting things helps your argument in no way whatsoever, especially when contrasted with your sneering, patronising comment about me making a "decent effort at debating the issue". You are a hypocrite of the highest order.

There was no condemnation by the usual suspects including you.Nothing.nada.zip 

theTicklemister,silver hill and Mcdanger2 were the only ones to call him out on it. Now, that, in and of itself I could let slide. I accept that some people will have some  "strong opinions" expressed based on bad experiences they have had. However, what I cant let slide is the complete silence by people like you whilst you come on here and constantly hold US society to account for their sins...and the fact that you insist on keeping that signature while pontificating about US attitudes to race just sums up perfectly how the deep the hypocrisy runs.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2014, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
If you believe the findings of the grand jury and evidence of credible eye witnesses who testified under oath who said that Brown turned back and was charging the officer, then yes, Wilsons actions were justified.

If you don't believe the findings of he grand jury and (believe the testimony of the less reliable Witt eases who changed their stories numerous times)....then obviously you will have a different opinion

That's what they are opinions

But previously you said your opinion was based on Brown's DNA being on the gun. Apparently the DNA was Brown's blood.

After the alleged altercation at the car, Brown ran away wounded and was pursued. Wilson told him to stop and turn around, which he did. None of this is disputed.

What is disputed is whether Brown 'charged' Wilson. Even if he did charge (and most witnessed seem to say he fell holding his stomach -  presumably they mistook this for holding the arm that had been shot), an unarmed man already shot is hardly in a position to do much damage to a cop with a gun that has already been fired 6 times. The last and fatal shot entered the top of the skull. Again even if he was charging (with 5 bullets already in him including one through the head) it wouldn't have been too hard to dodge him.

As for the Grand Jury, we saw this before with Rodney King. The Jury had 9 whites and the Prosecutors instructions to them has been completely discredited by rather unusual sources.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
If you believe the findings of the grand jury and evidence of credible eye witnesses who testified under oath who said that Brown turned back and was charging the officer, then yes, Wilsons actions were justified.

If you don't believe the findings of he grand jury and (believe the testimony of the less reliable Witt eases who changed their stories numerous times)....then obviously you will have a different opinion

That's what they are opinions


I think it all really depends on how genuinely he felt his life was in danger. I have my doubts to be honest. I definitely believe him when he says he felt in some level of danger. If the gun was taken off him then he, very likely, would be a dead man. That is the reality. People need to understand and acknowledge that. There would be no second chance  ......but I find it hard to believe he could not have done more to get away from the situation if it was that threatening.

Still, I would agree that the grand jury deliberated in good faith and I would trust their judgement. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2014, 05:20:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
If you believe the findings of the grand jury and evidence of credible eye witnesses who testified under oath who said that Brown turned back and was charging the officer, then yes, Wilsons actions were justified.

If you don't believe the findings of he grand jury and (believe the testimony of the less reliable Witt eases who changed their stories numerous times)....then obviously you will have a different opinion

That's what they are opinions

But previously you said your opinion was based on Brown's DNA being on the gun. Apparently the DNA was Brown's blood.

After the alleged altercation at the car, Brown ran away wounded and was pursued. Wilson told him to stop and turn around, which he did. None of this is disputed.

What is disputed is whether Brown 'charged' Wilson. Even if he did charge (and most witnessed seem to say he fell holding his stomach -  presumably they mistook this for holding the arm that had been shot), an unarmed man already shot is hardly in a position to do much damage to a cop with a gun that has already been fired 6 times. The last and fatal shot entered the top of the skull. Again even if he was charging (with 5 bullets already in him including one through the head) it wouldn't have been too hard to dodge him.

As for the Grand Jury, we saw this before with Rodney King. The Jury had 9 whites and the Prosecutors instructions to them has been completely discredited by rather unusual sources.

So you believe that the Grand Jury did not reach the correct verdict or that the verdict they reached is Flawed in some way! If you have that opinion, you'll find plenty of people who'll agree with you

You'll also find an equal, or greater, number of people, who believe, like me, that the process was just and the outcome based on fact
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2014, 05:30:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 05:20:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
If you believe the findings of the grand jury and evidence of credible eye witnesses who testified under oath who said that Brown turned back and was charging the officer, then yes, Wilsons actions were justified.

If you don't believe the findings of he grand jury and (believe the testimony of the less reliable Witt eases who changed their stories numerous times)....then obviously you will have a different opinion

That's what they are opinions

But previously you said your opinion was based on Brown's DNA being on the gun. Apparently the DNA was Brown's blood.

After the alleged altercation at the car, Brown ran away wounded and was pursued. Wilson told him to stop and turn around, which he did. None of this is disputed.

What is disputed is whether Brown 'charged' Wilson. Even if he did charge (and most witnessed seem to say he fell holding his stomach -  presumably they mistook this for holding the arm that had been shot), an unarmed man already shot is hardly in a position to do much damage to a cop with a gun that has already been fired 6 times. The last and fatal shot entered the top of the skull. Again even if he was charging (with 5 bullets already in him including one through the head) it wouldn't have been too hard to dodge him.

As for the Grand Jury, we saw this before with Rodney King. The Jury had 9 whites and the Prosecutors instructions to them has been completely discredited by rather unusual sources.

So you believe that the Grand Jury did not reach the correct verdict or that the verdict they reached is Flawed in some way! If you have that opinion, you'll find plenty of people who'll agree with you

You'll also find an equal, or greater, number of people, who believe, like me, that the process was just and the outcome based on fact

McCullough is 5 for 5 in not getting indictments for police shootings.

This is what the director of the Harvard Criminal Justice Institute had to say:

"This was a strategic and problematic use of a grand jury to get the result he wanted," said Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., director of the Harvard Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard University. "As a strategic move, it was smart; he got what he wanted without being seen as directly responsible for the result."

Sullivan called the case "the most unusual marshaling of a grand jury's resources I've seen in my 25 years as a lawyer and scholar."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-da-analysis-20141126-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-da-analysis-20141126-story.html)

So yes I believe it was flawed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 05:48:45 PM
All that article shows is two differing view points as to how the grand jury was convened.No matter what Mculloch done he was going to be criticized by one side or the other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2014, 05:50:07 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 05:48:45 PM
All that article shows is two differing view points as to how the grand jury was convened.No matter what Mculloch done he was going to be criticized by one side or the other.

What are these two sides?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 29, 2014, 05:51:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
If you believe the findings of the grand jury and evidence of credible eye witnesses who testified under oath who said that Brown turned back and was charging the officer, then yes, Wilsons actions were justified.

If you don't believe the findings of he grand jury and (believe the testimony of the less reliable Witt eases who changed their stories numerous times)....then obviously you will have a different opinion

That's what they are opinions

You can also believe the evidence of the witnesses who said brown turned back and yet still not believe that Wilson was justified. Personally I believe his response was disproportionate

Genuine question - what's the basis for saying that some witnesses are credible and others less so? Based on the verdict of the grand jury? Or something else?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 04:09:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 03:28:24 PM
a) The signature is a quote from my favourite character in a TV show that has received universal acclaim from all elements of society in the US. If it's good enough for them, I'll not worry too much about your thoughts on it and leave it as it is. If I'd quoted Shane McGowan singing, ironically, about "blacks and packs and jocks" you'd have said nowt.

b) There were numerous retorts to not just the repeated use of the word "gypo", but also the underlying sentiments. As there are any time somebody on the board talks about Pakistanis, Chinese, Jews, gays, prods etc etc. Selectively quoting things helps your argument in no way whatsoever, especially when contrasted with your sneering, patronising comment about me making a "decent effort at debating the issue". You are a hypocrite of the highest order.

There was no condemnation by the usual suspects including you.Nothing.nada.zip 

theTicklemister,silver hill and Mcdanger2 were the only ones to call him out on it. Now, that, in and of itself I could let slide. I accept that some people will have some  "strong opinions" expressed based on bad experiences they have had. However, what I cant let slide is the complete silence by people like you whilst you come on here and constantly hold US society to account for their sins...and the fact that you insist on keeping that signature while pontificating about US attitudes to race just sums up perfectly how the deep the hypocrisy runs.

I constantly hold US society to account for their sins? News to me. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate.
I'm a usual suspect!? Of what precisely? Your two favourite things to accuse people of are anti-Semitism or anti-Americanism. Give me some examples where I've done either.

So f**k if I didn't explicitly call someone out on a specific opinion. Someone had already articulated it perfectly. I'm not going to post my opinion on every thread on the board simply so that I can be safe in the knowledge that I'm free of the fear of you playing Solomon and judging me from your perch?

(Does that make me an anti-Semite? Most likely in your opinion)

For your information, I lived with three Mayo lads in College. All hard working, honest lads from salt of the earth rural families. We had many an argument over the Nally case and the relationship they had with travellers. I don't need to broadcast it here for the approval of the likes of you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 05:50:07 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 05:48:45 PM
All that article shows is two differing view points as to how the grand jury was convened.No matter what Mculloch done he was going to be criticized by one side or the other.

What are these two sides?
Rightly or wrongly most people have taken either Wilsons side or Browns  side and this is without even reading all the evidence.Most people take the bits of evidence to suit there own agenda and will never look at the whole picture.Watched both MSNBC "S and FOX coverage of the aftermath of the grand jury decision and it was like looking at 2 different cases.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Come to think of it, you didn't contribute to that thread yourself, did you? You merely trawled through it after the fact looking to use anyone else's non-contribution to suit the slant you're attempting (and failing, miserably - see, I can be a patronising f**k too!) to put on a completely unrelated discussion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2014, 06:56:02 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 29, 2014, 05:51:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
If you believe the findings of the grand jury and evidence of credible eye witnesses who testified under oath who said that Brown turned back and was charging the officer, then yes, Wilsons actions were justified.

If you don't believe the findings of he grand jury and (believe the testimony of the less reliable Witt eases who changed their stories numerous times)....then obviously you will have a different opinion

That's what they are opinions

You can also believe the evidence of the witnesses who said brown turned back and yet still not believe that Wilson was justified. Personally I believe his response was disproportionate

Genuine question - what's the basis for saying that some witnesses are credible and others less so? Based on the verdict of the grand jury? Or something else?

From what I have read and heard some of the "less credible" witnesses are the ones who changed their version of events numerous times.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguson-grand-jury-documents-show-inconsistencies-in-witness-testimony/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2014, 07:03:13 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 05:50:07 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 05:48:45 PM
All that article shows is two differing view points as to how the grand jury was convened.No matter what Mculloch done he was going to be criticized by one side or the other.

What are these two sides?
Rightly or wrongly most people have taken either Wilsons side or Browns  side and this is without even reading all the evidence.Most people take the bits of evidence to suit there own agenda and will never look at the whole picture.Watched both MSNBC "S and FOX coverage of the aftermath of the grand jury decision and it was like looking at 2 different cases.

That news article was about McCullough and his actions though, not Brown or Wilson.

There were two arguments in it.

a) some highly qualified people criticised his conduct
b) one highly qualified said he would be criticised whatever he did - which is a diversion tactic not a defence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Not the way I read the article.The second opinion was that Mcculloch convened the grand jury in the proper way, the first opinion otherwise.We are going around in circles here.The grand jury sat for 25 days and heard over 70 hours of evidence so I would imagine that they were best qualified to come to a decision.The biggest problem in this case is certain people wanting to turn it into a racial issue and clouding the real issues in the case
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2014, 07:28:52 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Not the way I read the article.The second opinion was that Mcculloch convened the grand jury in the proper way, the first opinion otherwise.We are going around in circles here.The grand jury sat for 25 days and heard over 70 hours of evidence so I would imagine that they were best qualified to come to a decision.The biggest problem in this case is certain people wanting to turn it into a racial issue and clouding the real issues in the case

These are the first 7 opinions in that article. Which one is 'the second opinion' that you are referring to?

1st opinion - Director of Harvard Justice Institute:

"This was a strategic and problematic use of a grand jury to get the result he wanted," said Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., director of the Harvard Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard University. "As a strategic move, it was smart; he got what he wanted without being seen as directly responsible for the result."

Sullivan called the case "the most unusual marshaling of a grand jury's resources I've seen in my 25 years as a lawyer and scholar."

2nd opinion - 'several analysts' unnamed in the article:

In the Ferguson case, several analysts said, the decision to present all available evidence essentially meant that jurors heard from witnesses both favorable and hostile to a prosecution. It provided an unusual opportunity for jurors to have doubts about whether there was probable cause for an indictment.

3rd opinion - Jeffrey Toobin of the New Yorker:

Jeffrey Toobin, a legal analyst writing in the New Yorker, accused McCulloch of using the Wilson case for "a document dump, an approach that is virtually without precedent in the law of Missouri or anywhere else."

4th opinion - 'legal experts' unnamed in the article:

Most tellingly, legal experts said, McCulloch did not challenge Wilson's detailed account of his encounter with Brown. That, they said, prompted jurors to accept at face value Wilson's testimony that he feared for his life as Brown allegedly charged at him after he punched the officer and tried to grab his gun.

5th opinion - Benjamin Crump layer for Brown's family:

"A first-year law student would have done a better job of cross-examining" Wilson, said Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Brown's family. "When was his credibility ever challenged?

6th opinion - Missouri state Sen. Jamilah Nasheed - granted a politician and not a legal opinion :

McCulloch "allowed Darren Wilson to sit there and give his side of the story," said Missouri state Sen. Jamilah Nasheed. "But there was no one there to give Michael Brown's side of the story."

7th opinion - James A. Cohen law Professor at Fordham:

James A. Cohen, a law professor at Fordham University, said the presentation of evidence was normally structured by prosecutors to help grand jurors understand it.

"A prosecutor has an obligation to ask questions and clarify testimony for grand jurors," he said. "This prosecutor did worse than abdicate his responsibility: He structured the presentation so the jurors would vote no true bill."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 29, 2014, 07:32:36 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Not the way I read the article.The second opinion was that Mcculloch convened the grand jury in the proper way, the first opinion otherwise.We are going around in circles here.The grand jury sat for 25 days and heard over 70 hours of evidence so I would imagine that they were best qualified to come to a decision.The biggest problem in this case is certain people wanting to turn it into a racial issue and clouding the real issues in the case

You can't simply say that the grand jury were best qualified to come to a decision while at the same time accusing people of making it into a racial issue - otherwise you could apply the same logic to any decision of this kind, including ones involving miscarriages of justice. They were only best qualified if the racial element DIDN'T come into play which of course is a matter of opinion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 29, 2014, 07:44:51 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 11:41:49 AM
Also, this is a thread about US politics...why are you discussing a police shooting ?
institutionalised racism is political

By all means bring up issues in Ireland but don't give us crap about the US not having a serious problem in this regard
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2014, 08:01:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 29, 2014, 07:28:52 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Not the way I read the article.The second opinion was that Mcculloch convened the grand jury in the proper way, the first opinion otherwise.We are going around in circles here.The grand jury sat for 25 days and heard over 70 hours of evidence so I would imagine that they were best qualified to come to a decision.The biggest problem in this case is certain people wanting to turn it into a racial issue and clouding the real issues in the case

These are the first 7 opinions in that article. Which one is 'the second opinion' that you are referring to?

1st opinion - Director of Harvard Justice Institute:

"This was a strategic and problematic use of a grand jury to get the result he wanted," said Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., director of the Harvard Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard University. "As a strategic move, it was smart; he got what he wanted without being seen as directly responsible for the result."

Sullivan called the case "the most unusual marshaling of a grand jury's resources I've seen in my 25 years as a lawyer and scholar."

2nd opinion - 'several analysts' unnamed in the article:

In the Ferguson case, several analysts said, the decision to present all available evidence essentially meant that jurors heard from witnesses both favorable and hostile to a prosecution. It provided an unusual opportunity for jurors to have doubts about whether there was probable cause for an indictment.

3rd opinion - Jeffrey Toobin of the New Yorker:

Jeffrey Toobin, a legal analyst writing in the New Yorker, accused McCulloch of using the Wilson case for "a document dump, an approach that is virtually without precedent in the law of Missouri or anywhere else."

4th opinion - 'legal experts' unnamed in the article:

Most tellingly, legal experts said, McCulloch did not challenge Wilson's detailed account of his encounter with Brown. That, they said, prompted jurors to accept at face value Wilson's testimony that he feared for his life as Brown allegedly charged at him after he punched the officer and tried to grab his gun.

5th opinion - Benjamin Crump layer for Brown's family:

"A first-year law student would have done a better job of cross-examining" Wilson, said Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Brown's family. "When was his credibility ever challenged?

6th opinion - Missouri state Sen. Jamilah Nasheed - granted a politician and not a legal opinion :

McCulloch "allowed Darren Wilson to sit there and give his side of the story," said Missouri state Sen. Jamilah Nasheed. "But there was no one there to give Michael Brown's side of the story."

7th opinion - James A. Cohen law Professor at Fordham:

James A. Cohen, a law professor at Fordham University, said the presentation of evidence was normally structured by prosecutors to help grand jurors understand it.

"A prosecutor has an obligation to ask questions and clarify testimony for grand jurors," he said. "This prosecutor did worse than abdicate his responsibility: He structured the presentation so the jurors would vote no true bill."

This will probably the most scrutinized GrandJury verdict in American history.

We have an African American President, an African American Attorney General,  and an African American woman poised to become the new Attorney General once Holder resigns.

I'm confident that if the  correct processes and procedures were not followed in Ferguson, they will be investigated and corrected by the aforementioned parties if need be.

And thank fvck the prosecutor is a Democrat....if he was a Republican, we'd never hear the end of it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2014, 08:14:58 PM
Says 'Whitey' 😊.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Come to think of it, you didn't contribute to that thread yourself, did you? You merely trawled through it after the fact looking to use anyone else's non-contribution to suit the slant you're attempting (and failing, miserably - see, I can be a patronising f**k too!) to put on a completely unrelated discussion.

You need to calm down and stop throwing the insults around. I know you are embarrassed that you got called on your hypocrisy, that doesn't excuse that sort of carry on.

You should concentrate on combatting racism in Ireland. That is somewhere that you can actually do something instead of constantly looking for excuses to have a go at Americans.

It is a great country with the most open-minded and tolerant people that I have come across anywhere and I am sick of listening to you xenophobes constantly running them down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 09:42:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 29, 2014, 07:44:51 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 11:41:49 AM
Also, this is a thread about US politics...why are you discussing a police shooting ?
institutionalised racism is political

By all means bring up issues in Ireland but don't give us crap about the US not having a serious problem in this regard

Read the thread. I clearly stated that the US has a problem with racism. However, you are certainly the last person to be lecturing anyone about it.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Come to think of it, you didn't contribute to that thread yourself, did you? You merely trawled through it after the fact looking to use anyone else's non-contribution to suit the slant you're attempting (and failing, miserably - see, I can be a patronising f**k too!) to put on a completely unrelated discussion.

You need to calm down and stop throwing the insults around. I know you are embarrassed that you got called on your hypocrisy, that doesn't excuse that sort of carry on.

You should concentrate on combatting racism in Ireland. That is somewhere that you can actually do something instead of constantly looking for excuses to have a go at Americans.

It is a great country with the most open-minded and tolerant people that I have come across anywhere and I am sick of listening to you xenophobes constantly running them down.

Congratulations, you're an embarrassment to two countries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 30, 2014, 12:13:50 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 29, 2014, 07:32:36 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Not the way I read the article.The second opinion was that Mcculloch convened the grand jury in the proper way, the first opinion otherwise.We are going around in circles here.The grand jury sat for 25 days and heard over 70 hours of evidence so I would imagine that they were best qualified to come to a decision.The biggest problem in this case is certain people wanting to turn it into a racial issue and clouding the real issues in the case

You can't simply say that the grand jury were best qualified to come to a decision while at the same time accusing people of making it into a racial issue - otherwise you could apply the same logic to any decision of this kind, including ones involving miscarriages of justice. They were only best qualified if the racial element DIDN'T come into play which of course is a matter of opinion
not sure what you are trying to say here.Do you think the grand jury was racially motivated in not bringing an indictment?All the credible witness's were black and there account of what happened was supported by forensic evidence and by the police officers account.Unfortunatly it has been turned into a racial incident by people like Al Sharpton and there probably would not be any coverage of it if Mike Brown was white.The 'hands up don't shoot' slogan that a lot of protesters are using is total BS and only makes people believe that he was shot with his hands up and inflames the situation even more
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 30, 2014, 01:08:27 AM
Quote from: maigheo on November 30, 2014, 12:13:50 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 29, 2014, 07:32:36 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 29, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Not the way I read the article.The second opinion was that Mcculloch convened the grand jury in the proper way, the first opinion otherwise.We are going around in circles here.The grand jury sat for 25 days and heard over 70 hours of evidence so I would imagine that they were best qualified to come to a decision.The biggest problem in this case is certain people wanting to turn it into a racial issue and clouding the real issues in the case

You can't simply say that the grand jury were best qualified to come to a decision while at the same time accusing people of making it into a racial issue - otherwise you could apply the same logic to any decision of this kind, including ones involving miscarriages of justice. They were only best qualified if the racial element DIDN'T come into play which of course is a matter of opinion
not sure what you are trying to say here.Do you think the grand jury was racially motivated in not bringing an indictment?All the credible witness's were black and there account of what happened was supported by forensic evidence and by the police officers account.Unfortunatly it has been turned into a racial incident by people like Al Sharpton and there probably would not be any coverage of it if Mike Brown was white.The 'hands up don't shoot' slogan that a lot of protesters are using is total BS and only makes people believe that he was shot with his hands up and inflames the situation even more

I'm saying that you're completely dismissing the possibility that there was a racial motivation by saying the grand jury saw all the evidence and are therefore best placed to decide whether Wilson was justified or not. It may well be that that is correct, however it may also not be correct and those who feel, based on the (albeit incomplete) story that we have heard, that Wilson was not justified in what he did then racial prejudice would be one explanation for the decision
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 30, 2014, 02:03:39 AM
well I guess you could say that is possible but there is nothing to indicate that this incident was racially motivated and I am sure if there was a racial incident in the past involving Wilson we would know about it by now.For me the thing that annoys me about this case is hate mongers and race baiters like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson inserting themselves in to the story and making the whole story about black v white.In the St Louis area 90 per cent of black murders are committed by other blacks but you are never going to hear them address this as it does not suit there agenda.If there is any issue in this case it would be the police training whereby they are taught shoot to kill if they think there life is in danger but maybe this has been proven to be the right approach.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 03:22:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 08:01:02 PM
This will probably the most scrutinized GrandJury verdict in American history.

We have an African American President, an African American Attorney General,  and an African American woman poised to become the new Attorney General once Holder resigns.

I'm confident that if the  correct processes and procedures were not followed in Ferguson, they will be investigated and corrected by the aforementioned parties if need be.

Unfortunately, Whitey, this confidence is based of yours is founded on absolutely no legal or factual basis whatsoever.

A bit like some of your previously stated facts opinions, sorry (which you are of course entitled to), none of your African American "aforementioned parties" have jurisdiction, which is precisely why anyone wanting this squashed would go through the unusual process of a) bringing it to a grand jury in the first place, and b) the antics played out at the grand jury itself.

The grand jury is not supposed to decide guilt or innocence, but rather if there is enough evidence for a trial to even take place. The fact that there are conflicting witnesses alone would be enough for a grand jury a similar scenario in New York, NJ or CT. 

I'm confident that you will, of course, embark on the requisite years of full time legal study in the US and then practice law for a while and then come back with more well founded legal opinions involving the nature of the legal system in Missouri.

I'm not stating whether that is fact or opinion just yet, I'll let you know...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2014, 04:22:54 AM
Quote from: maigheo on November 30, 2014, 02:03:39 AM
well I guess you could say that is possible but there is nothing to indicate that this incident was racially motivated and I am sure if there was a racial incident in the past involving Wilson we would know about it by now.For me the thing that annoys me about this case is hate mongers and race baiters like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson inserting themselves in to the story and making the whole story about black v white.In the St Louis area 90 per cent of black murders are committed by other blacks but you are never going to hear them address this as it does not suit there agenda.If there is any issue in this case it would be the police training whereby they are taught shoot to kill if they think there life is in danger but maybe this has been proven to be the right approach.

This is just another in a whole series of cases where unarmed black men are killed by police. It's easy to sit as a white person who doesn't need to worry about their kid when it comes to cops and society and condemn the reaction of the black community,  but we don't know their experience,  do we? And blacks being killed by other blacks generally does not occur at the hands of the state, does it?

By the way, what percentage of murders of whites are at the hands of other white people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2014, 07:20:37 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 03:22:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 08:01:02 PM
This will probably the most scrutinized GrandJury verdict in American history.

We have an African American President, an African American Attorney General,  and an African American woman poised to become the new Attorney General once Holder resigns.

I'm confident that if the  correct processes and procedures were not followed in Ferguson, they will be investigated and corrected by the aforementioned parties if need be.

Unfortunately, Whitey, this confidence is based of yours is founded on absolutely no legal or factual basis whatsoever.

A bit like some of your previously stated facts opinions, sorry (which you are of course entitled to), none of your African American "aforementioned parties" have jurisdiction, which is precisely why anyone wanting this squashed would go through the unusual process of a) bringing it to a grand jury in the first place, and b) the antics played out at the grand jury itself.

The grand jury is not supposed to decide guilt or innocence, but rather if there is enough evidence for a trial to even take place. The fact that there are conflicting witnesses alone would be enough for a grand jury a similar scenario in New York, NJ or CT. 

I'm confident that you will, of course, embark on the requisite years of full time legal study in the US and then practice law for a while and then come back with more well founded legal opinions involving the nature of the legal system in Missouri.

I'm not stating whether that is fact or opinion just yet, I'll let you know...

Good post.

And maigheo, I seriously doubt if any poster here has had his opinion swayed by Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.

We can think for ourselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Come to think of it, you didn't contribute to that thread yourself, did you? You merely trawled through it after the fact looking to use anyone else's non-contribution to suit the slant you're attempting (and failing, miserably - see, I can be a patronising f**k too!) to put on a completely unrelated discussion.

You need to calm down and stop throwing the insults around. I know you are embarrassed that you got called on your hypocrisy, that doesn't excuse that sort of carry on.

You should concentrate on combatting racism in Ireland. That is somewhere that you can actually do something instead of constantly looking for excuses to have a go at Americans.

It is a great country with the most open-minded and tolerant people that I have come across anywhere and I am sick of listening to you xenophobes constantly running them down.

Congratulations, you're an embarrassment to two countries.

beats being an insular, know nothing,  pontificating on other peoples problems.

You should get out of your narrow minded enclave. Travel a bit and see the world.  Maybe you wouldn't be so judgemental about other countries if you lived in them for a while.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 30, 2014, 11:43:25 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 29, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Come to think of it, you didn't contribute to that thread yourself, did you? You merely trawled through it after the fact looking to use anyone else's non-contribution to suit the slant you're attempting (and failing, miserably - see, I can be a patronising f**k too!) to put on a completely unrelated discussion.

You need to calm down and stop throwing the insults around. I know you are embarrassed that you got called on your hypocrisy, that doesn't excuse that sort of carry on.

You should concentrate on combatting racism in Ireland. That is somewhere that you can actually do something instead of constantly looking for excuses to have a go at Americans.

It is a great country with the most open-minded and tolerant people that I have come across anywhere and I am sick of listening to you xenophobes constantly running them down.

Congratulations, you're an embarrassment to two countries.

beats being an insular, know nothing,  pontificating on other peoples problems.

You should get out of your narrow minded enclave. Travel a bit and see the world.  Maybe you wouldn't be so judgemental about other countries if you lived in them for a while.

Actually, I take that back. Personally, I consider bigots, propagandists and liars who spout unfounded bluster and bombast the way you do as an embarrassment to the human race. You are a disgrace.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2014, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2014, 07:20:37 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 03:22:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 08:01:02 PM
This will probably the most scrutinized GrandJury verdict in American history.

We have an African American President, an African American Attorney General,  and an African American woman poised to become the new Attorney General once Holder resigns.

I'm confident that if the  correct processes and procedures were not followed in Ferguson, they will be investigated and corrected by the aforementioned parties if need be.

Unfortunately, Whitey, this confidence is based of yours is founded on absolutely no legal or factual basis whatsoever.

A bit like some of your previously stated facts opinions, sorry (which you are of course entitled to), none of your African American "aforementioned parties" have jurisdiction, which is precisely why anyone wanting this squashed would go through the unusual process of a) bringing it to a grand jury in the first place, and b) the antics played out at the grand jury itself.

The grand jury is not supposed to decide guilt or innocence, but rather if there is enough evidence for a trial to even take place. The fact that there are conflicting witnesses alone would be enough for a grand jury a similar scenario in New York, NJ or CT. 

I'm confident that you will, of course, embark on the requisite years of full time legal study in the US and then practice law for a while and then come back with more well founded legal opinions involving the nature of the legal system in Missouri.

I'm not stating whether that is fact or opinion just yet, I'll let you know...

Good post.

And maigheo, I seriously doubt if any poster here has had his opinion swayed by Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.

We can think for ourselves.

Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn


There is already on ongoing federal investigation:10 second Google search would have uncovered
that fact/opinion for you.



http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/225265-holder-civil-rights-charges-still-possible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 30, 2014, 11:43:25 AM

Actually, I take that back. Personally, I consider bigots, propagandists and liars who spout unfounded bluster and bombast the way you do as an embarrassment to the human race. You are a disgrace.

and you <splutter>...are...<snarl> .... a disgrace to all carbon based lifeforms !!

ffs, wind your neck in will you. Stop being so precious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 30, 2014, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 30, 2014, 11:43:25 AM

Actually, I take that back. Personally, I consider bigots, propagandists and liars who spout unfounded bluster and bombast the way you do as an embarrassment to the human race. You are a disgrace.

and you <splutter>...are...<snarl> .... a disgrace to all carbon based lifeforms !!

ffs, wind your neck in will you. Stop being so precious.

Why don't you practice what you preach for once? Show me where you called someone out for their racism towards the travelling community after having abused me for not doing the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 30, 2014, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 30, 2014, 11:43:25 AM

Actually, I take that back. Personally, I consider bigots, propagandists and liars who spout unfounded bluster and bombast the way you do as an embarrassment to the human race. You are a disgrace.

and you <splutter>...are...<snarl> .... a disgrace to all carbon based lifeforms !!

ffs, wind your neck in will you. Stop being so precious.

Why don't you practice what you preach for once? Show me where you called someone out for their racism towards the travelling community after having abused me for not doing the same.

I am perfectly fine with you, or anyone else, choosing not to call out racism in Ireland or elsewhere. It is the lack of consistency that is galling.

Also , if you want to talk about call outs....I would like to point out that you were the one that initiated this remember ? I did not engage with you. I posted a couple of articles and you waded in making pronouncements on what should or should not be discussed on this thread. You then started on about "Kerry f**kers" and lost the rag. Terrible stuff altogether.








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2014, 02:57:56 PM
Apparently young black men are 21 times more likely to be killed by police than young white men. And while 90% of black murder victims are killed by blacks, 83% of white murder victims are killed by whites. Those stats are pretty much identical and as expected, given that most people would be killed by people they know or from their own area. So that particular right wing talking point is bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 03:46:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 01:12:09 PM

Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn

There is already on ongoing federal investigation:10 second Google search would have uncovered
that fact/opinion for you.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/225265-holder-civil-rights-charges-still-possible

Holy crap Whitey, I have got to hand it to you, I knew you were a big shot, but I don't know how you managed to get the constitution of the great state of Missouri, and the US constitution changed overnight in order to win a couple of points on a discussion forum on Gaelic games but I'm looking forward to reading your article to find out.

"pregnant pause"

oh wait, no you didn't. You have posted an article about the ongoing federal investigation into a civil rights case which has been ongoing since the incident itself.
Some details for you on that one and how unlikely that is to happen: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/federal-civil-rights-charges-unlikely-against-police-officer-in-ferguson-shooting/2014/10/31/56189d80-6055-11e4-8b9e-2ccdac31a031_story.html

you do of course realize that a federal civil rights case has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the grand jury? Or maybe that's an opinion too?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 30, 2014, 04:13:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2014, 07:20:37 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 03:22:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 08:01:02 PM
This will probably the most scrutinized GrandJury verdict in American history.

We have an African American President, an African American Attorney General,  and an African American woman poised to become the new Attorney General once Holder resigns.

I'm confident that if the  correct processes and procedures were not followed in Ferguson, they will be investigated and corrected by the aforementioned parties if need be.

Unfortunately, Whitey, this confidence is based of yours is founded on absolutely no legal or factual basis whatsoever.

A bit like some of your previously stated facts opinions, sorry (which you are of course entitled to), none of your African American "aforementioned parties" have jurisdiction, which is precisely why anyone wanting this squashed would go through the unusual process of a) bringing it to a grand jury in the first place, and b) the antics played out at the grand jury itself.

The grand jury is not supposed to decide guilt or innocence, but rather if there is enough evidence for a trial to even take place. The fact that there are conflicting witnesses alone would be enough for a grand jury a similar scenario in New York, NJ or CT. 

I'm confident that you will, of course, embark on the requisite years of full time legal study in the US and then practice law for a while and then come back with more well founded legal opinions involving the nature of the legal system in Missouri.

I'm not stating whether that is fact or opinion just yet, I'll let you know...

Good post.

And maigheo, I seriously doubt if any poster here has had his opinion swayed by Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.

We can think for ourselves.
Obviously I know the opinions of Sharpton and Jackson have no influence on here but they have a huge influence on the black population in the States.Still cannot figure how Sharpton has weaseled his way into being an advisor for the Obama administration any time there is any kind of racial incident and having his own show on Msnbc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2014, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 30, 2014, 04:13:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2014, 07:20:37 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 03:22:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2014, 08:01:02 PM
This will probably the most scrutinized GrandJury verdict in American history.

We have an African American President, an African American Attorney General,  and an African American woman poised to become the new Attorney General once Holder resigns.

I'm confident that if the  correct processes and procedures were not followed in Ferguson, they will be investigated and corrected by the aforementioned parties if need be.

Unfortunately, Whitey, this confidence is based of yours is founded on absolutely no legal or factual basis whatsoever.

A bit like some of your previously stated facts opinions, sorry (which you are of course entitled to), none of your African American "aforementioned parties" have jurisdiction, which is precisely why anyone wanting this squashed would go through the unusual process of a) bringing it to a grand jury in the first place, and b) the antics played out at the grand jury itself.

The grand jury is not supposed to decide guilt or innocence, but rather if there is enough evidence for a trial to even take place. The fact that there are conflicting witnesses alone would be enough for a grand jury a similar scenario in New York, NJ or CT. 

I'm confident that you will, of course, embark on the requisite years of full time legal study in the US and then practice law for a while and then come back with more well founded legal opinions involving the nature of the legal system in Missouri.

I'm not stating whether that is fact or opinion just yet, I'll let you know...

Good post.

And maigheo, I seriously doubt if any poster here has had his opinion swayed by Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.

We can think for ourselves.
Obviously I know the opinions of Sharpton and Jackson have no influence on here but they have a huge influence on the black population in the States.Still cannot figure how Sharpton has weaseled his way into being an advisor for the Obama administration any time there is any kind of racial incident and having his own show on Msnbc

Obviously a lot of black people feel that Sharpton voices their concerns and reflects their experiences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2014, 05:07:23 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 03:46:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 01:12:09 PM

Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn

There is already on ongoing federal investigation:10 second Google search would have uncovered
that fact/opinion for you.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/225265-holder-civil-rights-charges-still-possible

Holy crap Whitey, I have got to hand it to you, I knew you were a big shot, but I don't know how you managed to get the constitution of the great state of Missouri, and the US constitution changed overnight in order to win a couple of points on a discussion forum on Gaelic games but I'm looking forward to reading your article to find out.

"pregnant pause"

oh wait, no you didn't. You have posted an article about the ongoing federal investigation into a civil rights case which has been ongoing since the incident itself.
Some details for you on that one and how unlikely that is to happen: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/federal-civil-rights-charges-unlikely-against-police-officer-in-ferguson-shooting/2014/10/31/56189d80-6055-11e4-8b9e-2ccdac31a031_story.html

you do of course realize that a federal civil rights case has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the grand jury? Or maybe that's an opinion too?

Feds pressurize McCulloch to resign, new prosecutor reconvenes a grand jury....simple as.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 06:08:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 05:07:23 PM

Feds pressurize McCulloch to resign, new prosecutor reconvenes a grand jury....simple as.

Again interesting opinion, unfortunately again, not legally possible with the current system in Missouri, or indeed anywhere in the United States. However there can be the appointment of a special prosecutor to convene a new grand jury. That would be up to Governor Jay Nixon to appoint a special prosecutor, and he has already come out and categorically stated he would not entertain the idea.

Some (very disputed) legal opinion suggests that there is a legal possibility that St. Louis County Circuit Court may have a right to appoint a special prosecutor for the case, however they have been closed since last week and have not commented as yet as to whether they believe they have that right, or whether if they do, they would even entertain the idea.

As before this has absolutely nothing to do with any Federal body or "Feds pressurizing" whatsoever, but don't let that get in the way of any more of your posts.

Out of curiosity, can you also clarify to whom you are referring when you say "Feds"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2014, 07:45:48 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 30, 2014, 11:43:25 AM

Actually, I take that back. Personally, I consider bigots, propagandists and liars who spout unfounded bluster and bombast the way you do as an embarrassment to the human race. You are a disgrace.

and you <splutter>...are...<snarl> .... a disgrace to all carbon based lifeforms !!

ffs, wind your neck in will you. Stop being so precious.
your spiel is a bit tired now, Sheehy. Israel and the US are untouchable as far as you are concerned.
Anyone who objects gets ladled with insults.
Can't someone like things like bagels and Bruce Springsteen without having to swallow bombing Gaza with white phosphorous and systematic police brutality against black people?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 08:44:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2014, 07:45:48 PM
your spiel is a bit tired now, Sheehy. Israel and the US are untouchable as far as you are concerned.
Anyone who objects gets ladled with insults.
Can't someone like things like bagels and Bruce Springsteen without having to swallow bombing Gaza with white phosphorous and systematic police brutality against black people?

What is getting tiresome is your continued xenophobia, anti-semitism and double standards and your constant attempts to take every incident that happens in the US and use it to further your twisted geopolitical take on the world.

The way you cynically exploit these incidents is sickening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2014, 09:02:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 05:07:23 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 03:46:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 01:12:09 PM

Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn

There is already on ongoing federal investigation:10 second Google search would have uncovered
that fact/opinion for you.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/225265-holder-civil-rights-charges-still-possible

Holy crap Whitey, I have got to hand it to you, I knew you were a big shot, but I don't know how you managed to get the constitution of the great state of Missouri, and the US constitution changed overnight in order to win a couple of points on a discussion forum on Gaelic games but I'm looking forward to reading your article to find out.

"pregnant pause"

oh wait, no you didn't. You have posted an article about the ongoing federal investigation into a civil rights case which has been ongoing since the incident itself.
Some details for you on that one and how unlikely that is to happen: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/federal-civil-rights-charges-unlikely-against-police-officer-in-ferguson-shooting/2014/10/31/56189d80-6055-11e4-8b9e-2ccdac31a031_story.html

you do of course realize that a federal civil rights case has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the grand jury? Or maybe that's an opinion too?

Feds pressurize McCulloch to resign, new prosecutor reconvenes a grand jury....simple as.

What authority do the feds have to make a local prosecutor resign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 30, 2014, 06:08:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 05:07:23 PM

Feds pressurize McCulloch to resign, new prosecutor reconvenes a grand jury....simple as.

Again interesting opinion, unfortunately again, not legally possible with the current system in Missouri, or indeed anywhere in the United States. However there can be the appointment of a special prosecutor to convene a new grand jury. That would be up to Governor Jay Nixon to appoint a special prosecutor, and he has already come out and categorically stated he would not entertain the idea.

Some (very disputed) legal opinion suggests that there is a legal possibility that St. Louis County Circuit Court may have a right to appoint a special prosecutor for the case, however they have been closed since last week and have not commented as yet as to whether they believe they have that right, or whether if they do, they would even entertain the idea.

As before this has absolutely nothing to do with any Federal body or "Feds pressurizing" whatsoever, but don't let that get in the way of any more of your posts.

Out of curiosity, can you also clarify to whom you are referring when you say "Feds"?

Wow......were really getting into the weeds on this one

The term  "Feds" is loose description of any federal agency, and in the context of this dialogue, I would be referring to the DOJ.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/jurisprudence/2014/11/michael_brown_and_rodney_king_department_of_justice_should_file_civil_charges.html


If you don't have time to read the entire article here's a direct quote

"There is precedent for the federal government to step in and prosecute police officers for violent acts when local authorities are unable to secure a conviction"

Notice I used the  word "pressure" rather than "force" McCulloch him to resign.

As part of Holders investigation into the Fergusn Police Dept. It would be very easy to broaden the probe and investigate McCulloch's department. Dig up enough $hit on him, pressurize him to resign and see where you go with a new prosecutor.

These are obviously opinions



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2014, 09:10:11 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 08:44:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2014, 07:45:48 PM
your spiel is a bit tired now, Sheehy. Israel and the US are untouchable as far as you are concerned.
Anyone who objects gets ladled with insults.
Can't someone like things like bagels and Bruce Springsteen without having to swallow bombing Gaza with white phosphorous and systematic police brutality against black people?

What is getting tiresome is your continued xenophobia, anti-semitism and double standards and your constant attempts to take every incident that happens in the US and use it to further your twisted geopolitical take on the world.
The way you cynically exploit these incidents is sickening.

Treating Palestinians like vermin is hardly Jewish, is it?
I'm not xenophobic either. Christ.
I don't take "every incident that happens in the US". Most of the time what goes on there is fine.

Systematic abuse can be pretty sickening.
Abuses of power are the same anywhere- whether in the US, Israel, France, Ireland or wherever. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 30, 2014, 10:33:17 PM
Yes, Systematic abuses of power are the same anywhere. It is a pity you are so selective when it comes to highlighting such abuses though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 01, 2014, 02:34:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 09:03:14 PM

Wow......were really getting into the weeds on this one.

you have got to be kidding now, weeds? Do you mean facts? Facts is what we are getting into.

Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
As part of Holders investigation into the Fergusn Police Dept. It would be very easy to broaden the probe and investigate McCulloch's department. Dig up enough $hit on him, pressurize him to resign and see where you go with a new prosecutor.

Mr Whitey, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this board is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2014, 10:10:34 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 01, 2014, 02:34:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 09:03:14 PM

Wow......were really getting into the weeds on this one.

you have got to be kidding now, weeds? Do you mean facts? Facts is what we are getting into.

Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
As part of Holders investigation into the Fergusn Police Dept. It would be very easy to broaden the probe and investigate McCulloch's department. Dig up enough $hit on him, pressurize him to resign and see where you go with a new prosecutor.

Mr Whitey, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this board is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

LOL-you need to get out more. Do you really think that couldn't happen?

http://www.alternet.org/bush-used-irs-fbi-cia-and-secret-service-go-after-opponents-where-was-fox-and-gop-outrage

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/060313-658636-lois-lerner-targeted-durbon-opponent-al-salvi.htm?ven=rss

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/state-local-politics/198123-political-targeting-of-walker-supporters-proves-it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 01, 2014, 02:42:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Anger just got the better of ye gall bladder!!! ;D

Can anyone tell me what it is gypsies contribute to Irish society?

Give him stick mental mike! ;)




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 03:00:17 PM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2014, 02:42:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Anger just got the better of ye gall bladder!!! ;D

Can anyone tell me what it is gypsies contribute to Irish society?

Give him stick mental mike! ;)

Stew- don't encourage him

"Ultimately, individuals who troll or become obsessed with conspiracy theories can be driven by many factors – boredom, loneliness, a need for validation – and we cannot discount the possibility of mental health problems."

Some kind of Internet Tourette maybe   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 04:27:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 03:00:17 PM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2014, 02:42:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Anger just got the better of ye gall bladder!!! ;D

Can anyone tell me what it is gypsies contribute to Irish society?

Give him stick mental mike! ;)

Stew- don't encourage him

"Ultimately, individuals who troll or become obsessed with conspiracy theories can be driven by many factors – boredom, loneliness, a need for validation – and we cannot discount the possibility of mental health problems."

Some kind of Internet Tourette maybe

It is telling that rather than confront him about what he said you choose to throw insults at me.

I suggest you stop trolling the US using dead Americans to further your tiresome geopolitical agenda.

It is extremely distasteful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on December 01, 2014, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2014, 02:42:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Anger just got the better of ye gall bladder!!! ;D

Can anyone tell me what it is gypsies contribute to Irish society?

Give him stick mental mike! ;)

You don't even get your own hypocrisy. In your utter desperation to have a pop at me you attempt to align yourself with someone who had already stated their repulsion to the views you hold.

As for "gall bladder", I'm not really sure what it's suppose to mean. Not really surprising I guess as I'm fairly sure you have no idea what you mean either. You never do. Was it an insult? If so, not one of your, eh, better ones. Definitely not as good as " gallfucker". Maybe you hit a creative plateau with that one and are struggling to get back?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 08:34:26 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 04:27:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 03:00:17 PM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2014, 02:42:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Anger just got the better of ye gall bladder!!! ;D

Can anyone tell me what it is gypsies contribute to Irish society?

Give him stick mental mike! ;)

Stew- don't encourage him

"Ultimately, individuals who troll or become obsessed with conspiracy theories can be driven by many factors – boredom, loneliness, a need for validation – and we cannot discount the possibility of mental health problems."

Some kind of Internet Tourette maybe

It is telling that rather than confront him about what he said you choose to throw insults at me.

I suggest you stop trolling the US using dead Americans to further your tiresome geopolitical agenda.

It is extremely distasteful.
There's something wrong with you, Sheehy. The same thing with Gallsman now.
And insults- you're the one that dishes them out.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 10:17:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 08:34:26 PM
There's something wrong with you, Sheehy. The same thing with Gallsman now.
And insults- you're the one that dishes them out.

Hating jews and Americans won't solve the structural problems of the world Seafoid.

and you should learn how to have genuine empathy for people as opposed to simply exploiting their suffering to play politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 10:46:32 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 10:17:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 08:34:26 PM
There's something wrong with you, Sheehy. The same thing with Gallsman now.
And insults- you're the one that dishes them out.

Hating jews and Americans won't solve the structural problems of the world Seafoid.

and you should learn how to have genuine empathy for people as opposed to simply exploiting their suffering to play politics.
Often times they disingenuously express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, pretend to throw arbitrary tantrums, and never hesitate to contribute absurd, non-sequitur remarks at any perceived opportunity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 10:50:57 PM
"The collapse of Gazan society is directly attributable to Hamas and it is a collapse fully aided and abetted  by anti-Semitic propagandists like you."

How is anyone supposed to take you seriously, Sheehy ?
And now you want to start on Gallsman.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 11:16:01 PM
When did you first start hating jews ? It is strange for someone from Ballinasloe to have such as strong prejudice against a religion which, I assume, has no presence in that area. Was it passed down to you perhaps ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 11:24:32 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 11:16:01 PM
When did you first start hating jews ? It is strange for someone from Ballinasloe to have such as strong prejudice against a religion which, I assume, has no presence in that area. Was it passed down to you perhaps ?
there's no point, Sheehy.

did you know that the  great kabbalist, Yehuda Ashlag, taught that the means for correcting the problems in the world are mercy, truth, righteousness and peace ?

and not Tourettes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 11:24:32 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 11:16:01 PM
When did you first start hating jews ? It is strange for someone from Ballinasloe to have such as strong prejudice against a religion which, I assume, has no presence in that area. Was it passed down to you perhaps ?
there's no point, Sheehy.

did you know that the  great kabbalist, Yehuda Ashlag, taught that the means for correcting the problems in the world are mercy, truth, righteousness and peace ?

and not Tourettes.

Yes, a great man and a true son of the holy land.

It is a pity you want to wipe them out. All that knowledge and wisdom will be lost.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 02, 2014, 10:37:27 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2014, 11:24:32 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 01, 2014, 11:16:01 PM
When did you first start hating jews ? It is strange for someone from Ballinasloe to have such as strong prejudice against a religion which, I assume, has no presence in that area. Was it passed down to you perhaps ?
there's no point, Sheehy.

did you know that the  great kabbalist, Yehuda Ashlag, taught that the means for correcting the problems in the world are mercy, truth, righteousness and peace ?

and not Tourettes.

Yes, a great man and a true son of the holy land.

It is a pity you want to wipe them out. All that knowledge and wisdom will be lost.
Since when did one man one vote become genocide ?
And why can't Zionism listen to what he said ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 02, 2014, 11:54:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 02, 2014, 10:37:27 AM
Since when did one man one vote become genocide ?
And why can't Zionism listen to what he said ?

The question is why can't you listen to what he said ?

I don't think I've ever come across anyone so singularly lacking in the qualities described above. People and conflicts are just pawns to you.

It's horrible to watch you latch onto every shooting or plane crash or whatever and see you try to manipulate the response to serve you geopolitical viewpoint.

Just give it a rest every once and a while for Christ sakes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on December 02, 2014, 11:56:40 AM
I wish ye both would give it a rest to be honest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on December 02, 2014, 02:25:58 PM
Chris Rock has a nice take (http://www.vulture.com/2014/11/chris-rock-frank-rich-in-conversation.html) on 'race relations' in America that could be usefully applied to the notion that Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson are the problem:

QuoteWhen we talk about race relations in America or racial progress, it's all nonsense. There are no race relations. White people were crazy. Now they're not as crazy. To say that black people have made progress would be to say they deserve what happened to them before. . . So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he's the first black person that is qualified to be president. That's not black progress. That's white progress. There's been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. If you saw Tina Turner and Ike having a lovely breakfast over there, would you say their relationship's improved? Some people would. But a smart person would go, "Oh, he stopped punching her in the face." It's not up to her. Ike and Tina Turner's relationship has nothing to do with Tina Turner. Nothing. It just doesn't. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let's hope America keeps producing nicer white people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 02, 2014, 02:31:13 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 02, 2014, 02:25:58 PM
Chris Rock has a nice take (http://www.vulture.com/2014/11/chris-rock-frank-rich-in-conversation.html) on 'race relations' in America that could be usefully applied to the notion that Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson are the problem:

QuoteWhen we talk about race relations in America or racial progress, it's all nonsense. There are no race relations. White people were crazy. Now they're not as crazy. To say that black people have made progress would be to say they deserve what happened to them before. . . So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he's the first black person that is qualified to be president. That's not black progress. That's white progress. There's been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. If you saw Tina Turner and Ike having a lovely breakfast over there, would you say their relationship's improved? Some people would. But a smart person would go, "Oh, he stopped punching her in the face." It's not up to her. Ike and Tina Turner's relationship has nothing to do with Tina Turner. Nothing. It just doesn't. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let's hope America keeps producing nicer white people.

I think it's quite common to blame a systematic problem on a small part of the response to it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on December 02, 2014, 02:44:50 PM
For all the race issues America has, it is worth noting that there isn't a mission a black person or Asian person etc would have been elected prime minister or Taoiseach in UK and Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on December 02, 2014, 02:52:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 02, 2014, 02:44:50 PM
For all the race issues a America has, it is worth noting that there isn't a mission a black person or Asian person etc would have been elected prime minister or Taoiseach in UK and Ireland.

It's noteworthy, but I don't see how it's adding anything to the conversation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 02, 2014, 04:05:49 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 01, 2014, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2014, 02:42:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Mike, I note you haven't contributed to the "social media humiliation" thread. By your logic your silence incriminates you - you condone that type ofbehaviour. Pathetic. You've lived in America for 20 years? Stay another f**king fifty and don't come home.

Anger just got the better of ye gall bladder!!! ;D

Can anyone tell me what it is gypsies contribute to Irish society?

Give him stick mental mike! ;)

You don't even get your own hypocrisy. In your utter desperation to have a pop at me you attempt to align yourself with someone who had already stated their repulsion to the views you hold.

As for "gall bladder", I'm not really sure what it's suppose to mean. Not really surprising I guess as I'm fairly sure you have no idea what you mean either. You never do. Was it an insult? If so, not one of your, eh, better ones. Definitely not as good as " gallfucker". Maybe you hit a creative plateau with that one and are struggling to get back?

"My utter desperation to have a pop at you" In your mind you really think you are that important/relevant don't you?

I did not align myself with Mikey you tit, I thought the words mental mike may have given that away!!!!

I simply chose one odious, arrogant dolt over another, the difference is mental mickey is slightly less odious than your good self galls!

Hope that clarifies matters and I will stay in the States as long as I see fit, you wishing me another 50 years of life is nice and all but the next time I take advice from the likes of you will be the first time!

Now feck aff and get back to getting bitch slapped by the boards village idiot!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on December 02, 2014, 04:11:28 PM
See the bit where you initially quoted me? The first word there is "Mike", indicating the board member to whom I was addressing my comments. Not "stew", but "Mike". One more time now, "Mike."

You utter mental case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 02, 2014, 05:05:35 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 02, 2014, 02:44:50 PM
For all the race issues America has, it is worth noting that there isn't a mission a black person or Asian person etc would have been elected prime minister or Taoiseach in UK and Ireland.

They should invoke the Rooney Rule.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 02, 2014, 05:09:20 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 02, 2014, 02:44:50 PM
For all the race issues America has, it is worth noting that there isn't a mission a black person or Asian person etc would have been elected prime minister or Taoiseach in UK and Ireland.

Indeed any Taoiseach from outside the Pale always gets slaughtered in the media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 03, 2014, 11:29:27 PM
The Eric Garner death got its grand jury verdict today: once again, and unbelievably so in this case, no indictment. This in a case where the medical examiner's office ruled that the chokehold the cop put him was a causal factor in his death by homicide. And all for selling cigarettes by the single.

Can there be any further doubt about why the black community feels victimized by the police?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on December 03, 2014, 11:46:06 PM
Even a Redstate writer (http://www.redstate.com/2014/12/03/breaking-nypd-officer-killed-eric-garner-indicted/) thinks the cop crossed the line here. Redstate! I'm sure he'll be punished for his heresy before too long, but it's almost encouraging.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 04, 2014, 12:12:04 AM
Illegal chokehold, caught on video, guy doing nothing except selling smokes, tells them he can't breathe, coroner rules homicide....but the grand jury rules there's not even a case to answer?


What exactly would it take for there to be a case to answer?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 04, 2014, 01:10:24 AM
Ok. I give up. Apparently at this point it is perfectly acceptable for cops in the US to kill and the benefit of the doubt will be given.

Ah, I miss the good old days of the RUC...

At least when I got stopped at a checkpoint then I knew what I was in for. I miss the old red torch circle with 5 other guys in flak jackets pointing guns at the car. Poor 17 year old English kids crapping themselves in the hedges and ditches.

Now a 12 year old can get shot on sight in a playground. Cop can kill a guy with an illegal chokehold. And who knows what else. It's definitely a win to have genetically low amounts of melanin in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 04, 2014, 08:33:55 AM
The Garner decision is inexplicable and unforgivable.

But this is almost worse: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-30287363 (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-30287363)

According to St Louis police, the 32-year-old Bosnian immigrant was driving his car with two passengers, including his fiance, when something hit his vehicle. Begic got out and was confronted and murdered by multiple attackers.

Begic was unconscious when emergency personnel arrived on the scene, and he later died at a local hospital.

Police have arrested three teenage suspects and charged them with murder. They are still looking for a fourth.

Although the suspects are black or Hispanic, and Begic was white, St Louis police say that they have no indication that race was a factor in the attack.

The protagonists will hopefully be found, tried and sentenced accordingly.

But my problem is this. The murderers in the latter case are being used as the excuse for the murders in the Ferguson, Cleveland and New York cases. The people using this argument are generally the far right Fox News type lunatics whose hysterical rants sadly have massive traction with many in the US. We see at least one regular poster here reproducing that low brow hatred over and over again.

How any sane person can link 4 hammer wielding psychos, who murder a passer-by for no apparent reason, to the justification of police strangling a man for selling cigarettes, or shooting a 12 year old for playing with a toy gun, is beyond me. There is little chance for any progress when this type of lunacy is accepted as one side of the argument. And it is very much one side of this argument. Look at twitter and even the BBC article above states: " The same media that descended on Ferguson en masse, in all their fact-free, hysteria-inducing, narrative-perpetrating glory, will be nowhere to be found" - Arnold Ahlert, The Patriot Post.

Thus the all protests and reaction to the killings by the police are apparently a media overreaction! The Grand Juries certainly seem to agree, as do the State Prosecutors and each of the Police Forces involved.

'Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.' - Apparently Benjamin Franklin although this (inevitably) is disputed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on December 04, 2014, 11:43:36 AM
Love this performance from an artist called B Dolan who pretty much describes American governance. This is what it is, and this is what it always was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwzljOb_dN8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwzljOb_dN8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 04, 2014, 01:19:45 PM
Things never change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e02rn2FJe9o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on December 05, 2014, 01:13:37 AM
Thousands of protestors on the streets of New York tonight. City at a standstill.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on December 06, 2014, 06:00:29 AM
Only just saw the video of Eric Garner, seems fairly clear that he was posing no threat to the cops. Unbelievable that he hasn't been indicted by the grand jury - any info on what their decision was based on??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on December 06, 2014, 11:02:19 AM


From NY Times http://nyti.ms/1vliOFL (http://nyti.ms/1vliOFL)
QuoteThe fatal encounter in July was captured on videos and seen around the world. But after viewing the footage and hearing from witnesses, including the officer who used the chokehold, the jurors deliberated for less than a day before deciding that there was not enough evidence to go forward with charges against the officer, Daniel Pantaleo, 29, in the death of the man, Eric Garner, 43.
QuoteAn autopsy by the city's medical examiner found that Mr. Garner's death was a homicide resulting from the chokehold — a maneuver banned by the Police Department in 1993 — and the compression of his chest by police officers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on December 06, 2014, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on December 06, 2014, 11:02:19 AM


From NY Times http://nyti.ms/1vliOFL (http://nyti.ms/1vliOFL)
QuoteThe fatal encounter in July was captured on videos and seen around the world. But after viewing the footage and hearing from witnesses, including the officer who used the chokehold, the jurors deliberated for less than a day before deciding that there was not enough evidence to go forward with charges against the officer, Daniel Pantaleo, 29, in the death of the man, Eric Garner, 43.
QuoteAn autopsy by the city's medical examiner found that Mr. Garner's death was a homicide resulting from the chokehold — a maneuver banned by the Police Department in 1993 — and the compression of his chest by police officers.

So basically they thought what happened in the video was fine.

Are these protests going to be big enough to,change anything? What sort of change would you even start with?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on December 06, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
The protests will change nothing.  It will go the same way as the occupy movement i suspect, just fading away into the background after a few weeks.  Some new big news story will come along and they will be forgot about. 
Be interesting to see how today goes. There is another mass protest organized for today in NY and with it being a Saturday i would think organizers will be expecting a large turnout. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on December 06, 2014, 12:13:49 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on December 06, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
The protests will change nothing.  It will go the same way as the occupy movement i suspect, just fading away into the background after a few weeks.  Some new big news story will come along and they will be forgot about. 


That's what I thought alright
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 06, 2014, 01:29:31 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on December 06, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
The protests will change nothing.  It will go the same way as the occupy movement i suspect, just fading away into the background after a few weeks.  Some new big news story will come along and they will be forgot about. 
Be interesting to see how today goes. There is another mass protest organized for today in NY and with it being a Saturday i would think organizers will be expecting a large turnout.

Carmen....as a long term resident of NYC, I would be interested to hear your personal opinion of they NYPD
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 06, 2014, 02:11:41 PM
I deal with cops here all the time, they do put up with a lot of B.S and I would hate to do their job but most of the time their behavior and aggressiveness while on calls leads to most the problems they encounter.  Honestly if I was an African American and was pulled over by the cops I would be very nervous about where I put my hands. Having said they have a very difficult job dealing with some of the biggest lowlifes you could ever meet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 06, 2014, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 06, 2014, 02:11:41 PM
I deal with cops here all the time, they do put up with a lot of B.S and I would hate to do their job but most of the time their behavior and aggressiveness while on calls leads to most the problems they encounter.  Honestly if I was an African American and was pulled over by the cops I would be very nervous about where I put my hands. Having said they have a very difficult job dealing with some of the biggest lowlifes you could ever meet.

Why is that? In the world's richest country?

As an aside, I am frequently in New York and have never had anything but a positive experience with them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 06, 2014, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 06, 2014, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 06, 2014, 02:11:41 PM
I deal with cops here all the time, they do put up with a lot of B.S and I would hate to do their job but most of the time their behavior and aggressiveness while on calls leads to most the problems they encounter.  Honestly if I was an African American and was pulled over by the cops I would be very nervous about where I put my hands. Having said they have a very difficult job dealing with some of the biggest lowlifes you could ever meet.

Why is that? In the world's richest country?

As an aside, I am frequently in New York and have never had anything but a positive experience with them.

It might be the worlds richest country, but the living standards in some areas are terrible. If you live in these poorer areas its all about survival, some children rare themselves because their parents couldn't  give a toss about them. So you can imagine how some of these kids turn out, the value of a human life to a kid that has grown up in this environment is probably a lot less than yours or mine. This is the type of person I am referring to when I say cops have a difficult job as this is their clientele 80% of the time.
I am glad your interactions with NYPD have been positive, what part of New York were you visiting?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 06, 2014, 06:00:24 PM
(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-12/3/14/enhanced/webdr02/enhanced-30336-1417635687-21.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on December 06, 2014, 06:53:35 PM
Have to agree fully with FL/Mayo.  Some of the areas that they have to Police would not be for the faint hearted.  Thankfully i have not had any personal experience with the NYPD myself but its hard to not notice their actions towards Blacks and Spanish in the city are a lot different to whites.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 06, 2014, 07:29:41 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 06, 2014, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 06, 2014, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 06, 2014, 02:11:41 PM
I deal with cops here all the time, they do put up with a lot of B.S and I would hate to do their job but most of the time their behavior and aggressiveness while on calls leads to most the problems they encounter.  Honestly if I was an African American and was pulled over by the cops I would be very nervous about where I put my hands. Having said they have a very difficult job dealing with some of the biggest lowlifes you could ever meet.

Why is that? In the world's richest country?

As an aside, I am frequently in New York and have never had anything but a positive experience with them.

It might be the worlds richest country, but the living standards in some areas are terrible. If you live in these poorer areas its all about survival, some children rare themselves because their parents couldn't  give a toss about them. So you can imagine how some of these kids turn out, the value of a human life to a kid that has grown up in this environment is probably a lot less than yours or mine. This is the type of person I am referring to when I say cops have a difficult job as this is their clientele 80% of the time.
I am glad your interactions with NYPD have been positive, what part of New York were you visiting?

I am usually in Manhattan. Brooklyn traffic seems to be without rules so I can imagine what being on the street is like there.

But back to the above. I agree with everything you say.

But I was really asking why is it like that?

People instinctively look after their kids everywhere in the world. Why (and this happens in Ireland too but nowhere near the same scale) do these people abandon their kids? You used the word 'lowlife'. The Irish were considered the lowest form of life in Europe over 100 years ago and that stuck with them initially when they emigrated to the States. That changed. Why is the situation for such a huge number of African-Americans not changing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2014, 08:34:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 06, 2014, 06:00:24 PM
(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-12/3/14/enhanced/webdr02/enhanced-30336-1417635687-21.jpg)

The photoshopping of the last two lines couldn't be more obvious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2014, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on December 06, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
The protests will change nothing.  It will go the same way as the occupy movement i suspect, just fading away into the background after a few weeks.  Some new big news story will come along and they will be forgot about. 
Be interesting to see how today goes. There is another mass protest organized for today in NY and with it being a Saturday i would think organizers will be expecting a large turnout.

I disagree that the occupy movement changed nothing. Prior to that, you weren't allowed to talk about income inequality in America because conservatives would shout you down with the old talking point: "You can't say that! That's class warfare!" Nowadays income inequality is very much on the political agenda and anyone running for office is free to talk about it in a way that they weren't before.

I think the standard right wing talking points about racial profiling and police brutality are quickly losing their traction too. In fact right wingers should be horrified by what's going on since they are the ones who for years have been ranting like paranoid maniacs about a looming "police state." Now that it's arrived they're strangely silent about it, but only because it's people of colour that are on the receiving end. Once a few more white people start to get roughed up on camera and the offending cops get away with it, then you'll start to see a bit of outrage from the Fox News-watching Wal Mart crowd.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 06, 2014, 09:00:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2014, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on December 06, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
The protests will change nothing.  It will go the same way as the occupy movement i suspect, just fading away into the background after a few weeks.  Some new big news story will come along and they will be forgot about. 
Be interesting to see how today goes. There is another mass protest organized for today in NY and with it being a Saturday i would think organizers will be expecting a large turnout.

I disagree that the occupy movement changed nothing. Prior to that, you weren't allowed to talk about income inequality in America because conservatives would shout you down with the old talking point: "You can't say that! That's class warfare!" Nowadays income inequality is very much on the political agenda and anyone running for office is free to talk about it in a way that they weren't before.

I think the standard right wing talking points about racial profiling and police brutality are quickly losing their traction too. In fact right wingers should be horrified by what's going on since they are the ones who for years have been ranting like paranoid maniacs about a looming "police state." Now that it's arrived they're strangely silent about it, but only because it's people of colour that are on the receiving end. Once a few more white people start to get roughed up on camera and the offending cops get away with it, then you'll start to see a bit of outrage from the Fox News-watching Wal Mart crowd.

Conservatives are appalled at what is going on, a lot of them are but hey, you just sweep with broad strokes and tar every conservative thinking person as racist and uncaring about their fellow countrymen.

The fox news comments are played out, liberals watch msnbc and to be fair the vast majority of the big players in the States that broadcast are liberals.

I watch Fox, I watch msnbc and CNN, you tend to get to figure out the bullshit when you take in various perspectives, do you ever watch Fox????

Ben Stein commented on the hypocrisy pertaining to Obamacare recently, you might want to take a gander on his thoughts! and don't get me started on the clown in chief and Pelosi, forgetting they knew the arsehole they employed, who stated that they knew Obamacare would be made into law "because of the stupidity of the American people"

This is the single worst administration since Nixon, the prez is a disgrace to the office as was the guy he replaced.

The liberals have run the place for six years and they have effed it up, time for change!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 06, 2014, 10:18:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 06, 2014, 07:29:41 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 06, 2014, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 06, 2014, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 06, 2014, 02:11:41 PM
I deal with cops here all the time, they do put up with a lot of B.S and I would hate to do their job but most of the time their behavior and aggressiveness while on calls leads to most the problems they encounter.  Honestly if I was an African American and was pulled over by the cops I would be very nervous about where I put my hands. Having said they have a very difficult job dealing with some of the biggest lowlifes you could ever meet.

Why is that? In the world's richest country?

As an aside, I am frequently in New York and have never had anything but a positive experience with them.

It might be the worlds richest country, but the living standards in some areas are terrible. If you live in these poorer areas its all about survival, some children rare themselves because their parents couldn't  give a toss about them. So you can imagine how some of these kids turn out, the value of a human life to a kid that has grown up in this environment is probably a lot less than yours or mine. This is the type of person I am referring to when I say cops have a difficult job as this is their clientele 80% of the time.
I am glad your interactions with NYPD have been positive, what part of New York were you visiting?

I am usually in Manhattan. Brooklyn traffic seems to be without rules so I can imagine what being on the street is like there.

But back to the above. I agree with everything you say.

But I was really asking why is it like that?

People instinctively look after their kids everywhere in the world. Why (and this happens in Ireland too but nowhere near the same scale) do these people abandon their kids? You used the word 'lowlife'. The Irish were considered the lowest form of life in Europe over 100 years ago and that stuck with them initially when they emigrated to the States. That changed. Why is the situation for such a huge number of African-Americans not changing?

Muppet, great question, I ask myself the same thing all the time, I think its a generational problem, its tough to get out when your number one concern when you go to school or get out of bed in the morning is survival. The parents of some of these kids cannot look after themselves never mind raise a child, bad parents make bad kids, it goes from one generation to the next. I do see other immigrant groups starting to prosper, the Hispanic population seems to prospering and the mostly black Haitian population will be next in my opinion, both groups have a strong family network. Maybe that's the key!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2014, 05:27:54 AM
Quote from: stew on December 06, 2014, 09:00:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2014, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on December 06, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
The protests will change nothing.  It will go the same way as the occupy movement i suspect, just fading away into the background after a few weeks.  Some new big news story will come along and they will be forgot about. 
Be interesting to see how today goes. There is another mass protest organized for today in NY and with it being a Saturday i would think organizers will be expecting a large turnout.

I disagree that the occupy movement changed nothing. Prior to that, you weren't allowed to talk about income inequality in America because conservatives would shout you down with the old talking point: "You can't say that! That's class warfare!" Nowadays income inequality is very much on the political agenda and anyone running for office is free to talk about it in a way that they weren't before.

I think the standard right wing talking points about racial profiling and police brutality are quickly losing their traction too. In fact right wingers should be horrified by what's going on since they are the ones who for years have been ranting like paranoid maniacs about a looming "police state." Now that it's arrived they're strangely silent about it, but only because it's people of colour that are on the receiving end. Once a few more white people start to get roughed up on camera and the offending cops get away with it, then you'll start to see a bit of outrage from the Fox News-watching Wal Mart crowd.

Conservatives are appalled at what is going on, a lot of them are but hey, you just sweep with broad strokes and tar every conservative thinking person as racist and uncaring about their fellow countrymen.

The fox news comments are played out, liberals watch msnbc and to be fair the vast majority of the big players in the States that broadcast are liberals.

I watch Fox, I watch msnbc and CNN, you tend to get to figure out the bullshit when you take in various perspectives, do you ever watch Fox????

Ben Stein commented on the hypocrisy pertaining to Obamacare recently, you might want to take a gander on his thoughts! and don't get me started on the clown in chief and Pelosi, forgetting they knew the arsehole they employed, who stated that they knew Obamacare would be made into law "because of the stupidity of the American people"

This is the single worst administration since Nixon, the prez is a disgrace to the office as was the guy he replaced.

The liberals have run the place for six years and they have effed it up, time for change!

You mean the GOP have NOT had the House and have NOT been behaving like spoilt children since 2010?

Just what have conservatives offered that warrants a return to their ideas?

The MIT dude who talked about the stupidity of the American people... do you seriously think the GOP doesn't think the exact same,  with their cynical wedge issues to get votes while they toe the line of their corporate masters???

As for Ben Stein,  haven't heard from him since his ludicrous movie about "intelligent design" a few years back. What has he got to say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 07, 2014, 05:39:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2014, 08:34:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 06, 2014, 06:00:24 PM
(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-12/3/14/enhanced/webdr02/enhanced-30336-1417635687-21.jpg)

The photoshopping of the last two lines couldn't be more obvious.

Possibly is a fake. There are no spelling mistakes.
But the sentiment still carries. Why shouldn't any kid be allowed to hold up a store, jaywalk, assault a police officer and resist arrest without fear?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on December 07, 2014, 10:14:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 07, 2014, 05:39:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2014, 08:34:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 06, 2014, 06:00:24 PM
(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-12/3/14/enhanced/webdr02/enhanced-30336-1417635687-21.jpg)

The photoshopping of the last two lines couldn't be more obvious.

Possibly is a fake. There are no spelling mistakes.
But the sentiment still carries. Why shouldn't any kid be allowed to hold up a store, jaywalk, assault a police officer and resist arrest without fear?

Which of those are offences worthy of being shot without trial?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on December 07, 2014, 10:48:51 AM
Absolutely fascinating documentary on New stalk this morning, "A Bronx Tale," about the, largely illegal, Irish community in the Bronx neighbourhood of Woodlawn.

So many different perspectives of Ireland, of traveling home, of options for the future etc. Powerful stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on December 07, 2014, 10:58:45 AM
Thanks for the heads up, going to give it a listen now. I see you can listen again on podcast section of website. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2014, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 07, 2014, 05:39:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2014, 08:34:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 06, 2014, 06:00:24 PM
(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-12/3/14/enhanced/webdr02/enhanced-30336-1417635687-21.jpg)

The photoshopping of the last two lines couldn't be more obvious.

Possibly is a fake. There are no spelling mistakes.
But the sentiment still carries. Why shouldn't any kid be allowed to hold up a store, jaywalk, assault a police officer and resist arrest without fear?

Of course its a fake. :o

And there is a big difference between fear of arrest and have a much higher chance of being stopped/harrassed or killed by police just because you're black.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 07, 2014, 02:42:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 07, 2014, 10:48:51 AM
Absolutely fascinating documentary on New stalk this morning, "A Bronx Tale," about the, largely illegal, Irish community in the Bronx neighbourhood of Woodlawn.

So many different perspectives of Ireland, of traveling home, of options for the future etc. Powerful stuff.

I just listened to the documentary, it could have been made back in 1984, the only difference is that coming and going back then wasn't an issue. Woodlawn and Queens were the haunts back then as well. The bar game is great when you are young but unless you have a good head on your shoulders it will catch up to you sooner or later, that accent and your looks will not be so "cute" when you get older. In the 80's they had 3 or 4 lotteries and amnesties all skewed in favor of the Irish. I know people that applied for Green Cards at home and never even bothered to use them after getting theirs. In one amnesty you had to prove that you were living illegally in the U.S for 5 years or more, a few friends of mine got a letter from a bar owner in Queens to say that they were patrons of the bar for 5 years, it worked. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on December 07, 2014, 03:05:39 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 07, 2014, 02:42:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 07, 2014, 10:48:51 AM
Absolutely fascinating documentary on New stalk this morning, "A Bronx Tale," about the, largely illegal, Irish community in the Bronx neighbourhood of Woodlawn.

So many different perspectives of Ireland, of traveling home, of options for the future etc. Powerful stuff.

I just listened to the documentary, it could have been made back in 1984, the only difference is that coming and going back then wasn't an issue. Woodlawn and Queens were the haunts back then as well. The bar game is great when you are young but unless you have a good head on your shoulders it will catch up to you sooner or later, that accent and your looks will not be so "cute" when you get older. In the 80's they had 3 or 4 lotteries and amnesties all skewed in favor of the Irish. I know people that applied for Green Cards at home and never even bothered to use them after getting theirs. In one amnesty you had to prove that you were living illegally in the U.S for 5 years or more, a few friends of mine got a letter from a bar owner in Queens to say that they were patrons of the bar for 5 years, it worked.

Yes, it was very noticeable that the interviewees all appeared to be young. I'd say oldest was probably in mid to late 20s. Cash in hand and pints and football and hurling is all well and good then but it has to be asked what happens when it's time to start settling down.

I was shocked to hear how casually they talk about paying for a sham marriage to get a green card and the disregard for any sort of civic obligations - e.g. giving fake names and addresses at hospitals etc.

One thing I found particularly interesting was the universal fear they had of having the slightest, most innocuous interaction with the cops even though one clearly felt cops weren't too worried about immigration unless there was a serious offence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 07, 2014, 04:52:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2014, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 07, 2014, 05:39:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2014, 08:34:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 06, 2014, 06:00:24 PM
(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-12/3/14/enhanced/webdr02/enhanced-30336-1417635687-21.jpg)

The photoshopping of the last two lines couldn't be more obvious.

Possibly is a fake. There are no spelling mistakes.
But the sentiment still carries. Why shouldn't any kid be allowed to hold up a store, jaywalk, assault a police officer and resist arrest without fear?

Of course its a fake. :o

And there is a big difference between fear of arrest and have a much higher chance of being stopped/harrassed or killed by police just because you're black.

Oh the irony of patronising the intelligence of the guy in the photo with 'The are no spelling mistakes', while taking an obvious fake at face value.

Look at the R, O & S in ROBS and you will easily find the individual letters copied in the previous text. For example the 'S' in robs and the 'S' in store are identical, but the the 3 instances of 'S' that appear before that are all different from each other, as you would expect.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on December 19, 2014, 09:30:24 AM
Thoughts on Obama's policy shift towards Cuba? Going to be an interesting battle with Congress over the embargo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2014, 12:28:20 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 19, 2014, 09:30:24 AM
Thoughts on Obama's policy shift towards Cuba? Going to be an interesting battle with Congress over the embargo.

He is absolutely correct. The policy gas failed for 50+ years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 22, 2014, 04:50:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2014, 12:28:20 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 19, 2014, 09:30:24 AM
Thoughts on Obama's policy shift towards Cuba? Going to be an interesting battle with Congress over the embargo.

He is absolutely correct. The policy gas failed for 50+ years.

Fair play to Obama on this issue, this should have been done decades ago!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 22, 2014, 05:14:17 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/21/justice/maryland-shooting-nypd-case/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/21/justice/maryland-shooting-nypd-case/index.html)

This was desperately sad for the victims as well as all other shootings.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Another shooting in Missouri, another innocent law abiding citizen killed, more protests against the cops. This is going to keep going.

Which NBA team will make a stand first?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Another shooting in Missouri, another innocent law abiding citizen killed, more protests against the cops. This is going to keep going.

Which NBA team will make a stand first?

Did he not point his weapon at the cops? It's funny how you know he is innocent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 24, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Another shooting in Missouri, another innocent law abiding citizen killed, more protests against the cops. This is going to keep going.

Which NBA team will make a stand first?

Did he not point his weapon at the cops? It's funny how you know he is innocent

His mother said the was the victim with his girlfriend (she would wouldn't she?) while the cops said it was two men and one pointed a gun at the cops (they would wouldn't they?).

At this stage the stories are incompatible so we don't know who is wrong.

If he had a gun on him and did anything with it, you would have to be sympathetic towards the cops, especially after the shootings in NY. However if the cop completely misread the situation then you have another straw going on a creaking camels back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:45:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 24, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Another shooting in Missouri, another innocent law abiding citizen killed, more protests against the cops. This is going to keep going.

Which NBA team will make a stand first?

Did he not point his weapon at the cops? It's funny how you know he is innocent

His mother said the was the victim with his girlfriend (she would wouldn't she?) while the cops said it was two men and one pointed a gun at the cops (they would wouldn't they?).

At this stage the stories are incompatible so we don't know who is wrong.

If he had a gun on him and did anything with it, you would have to be sympathetic towards the cops, especially after the shootings in NY. However if the cop completely misread the situation then you have another straw going on a creaking camels back.

Where's Al Sharpton when you need him to plead his innocence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:52:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 24, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Another shooting in Missouri, another innocent law abiding citizen killed, more protests against the cops. This is going to keep going.

Which NBA team will make a stand first?

Did he not point his weapon at the cops? It's funny how you know he is innocent

His mother said the was the victim with his girlfriend (she would wouldn't she?) while the cops said it was two men and one pointed a gun at the cops (they would wouldn't they?).

At this stage the stories are incompatible so we don't know who is wrong.

If he had a gun on him and did anything with it, you would have to be sympathetic towards the cops, especially after the shootings in NY. However if the cop completely misread the situation then you have another straw going on a creaking camels back.

I believe they have released footage of the man pointing the weapon at the police
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 24, 2014, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:52:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 24, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Another shooting in Missouri, another innocent law abiding citizen killed, more protests against the cops. This is going to keep going.

Which NBA team will make a stand first?

Did he not point his weapon at the cops? It's funny how you know he is innocent

His mother said the was the victim with his girlfriend (she would wouldn't she?) while the cops said it was two men and one pointed a gun at the cops (they would wouldn't they?).

At this stage the stories are incompatible so we don't know who is wrong.

If he had a gun on him and did anything with it, you would have to be sympathetic towards the cops, especially after the shootings in NY. However if the cop completely misread the situation then you have another straw going on a creaking camels back.

I believe they have released footage of the man pointing the weapon at the police

Well that knocks that on the head then. Cops are fine in this one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 25, 2014, 11:57:24 AM
Unfortunately, the cops in some of the cities have to deal with a level of violence most people couldn't even comprehend.  8 murders so far in Chicago this week

http://homicides.suntimes.com

http://homicides.suntimes.com/2014/09/19/three-men-charged-with-murder-in-greater-grand-crossing-shooting-death-of-9-year-old-antonio-smith/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:32:28 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Another shooting in Missouri, another innocent law abiding citizen killed, more protests against the cops. This is going to keep going.

Which NBA team will make a stand first?

Did he not point his weapon at the cops? It's funny how you know he is innocent

They're always innocent according to some ;)  Still no input from Al Sharpton though which is surprising.

8 people killed in Chicago and you won't ever hear about it. It's not newsworthy. That's weekly as well. It all depends on the races involved to make headlines and stir trouble.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:40:23 PM
To think of the bigger picture here. Why in the world would an 18 year old have a gun.
And if his mother really questions why he was killed she obviously didn't know what her kid was up to. Parental failure yet again.
Can't blame the cops for unruly kids.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kidder81 on December 25, 2014, 06:13:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:40:23 PM
To think of the bigger picture here. Why in the world would an 18 year old have a gun.
And if his mother really questions why he was killed she obviously didn't know what her kid was up to. Parental failure yet again.
Can't blame the cops for unruly kids.

A gun with the serial number removed I think.........
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 25, 2014, 07:57:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:40:23 PM
To think of the bigger picture here. Why in the world would an 18 year old have a gun.
And if his mother really questions why he was killed she obviously didn't know what her kid was up to. Parental failure yet again.
Can't blame the cops for unruly kids.

Unfortunately there's 10,11 and 12 year old with guns in some of these cities
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 25, 2014, 08:55:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:40:23 PM
To think of the bigger picture here. Why in the world would an 18 year old have a gun.
And if his mother really questions why he was killed she obviously didn't know what her kid was up to. Parental failure yet again.
Can't blame the cops for unruly kids.

Sweet. The rest of the world can absolve itself completely from any responsibility.

More turkey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 25, 2014, 09:13:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 08:55:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:40:23 PM
To think of the bigger picture here. Why in the world would an 18 year old have a gun.
And if his mother really questions why he was killed she obviously didn't know what her kid was up to. Parental failure yet again.
Can't blame the cops for unruly kids.

Sweet. The rest of the world can absolve itself completely from any responsibility.

More turkey.

No Muppet........you are not responsible for how a single mom on the
South Side and of Chicago raises her kids
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 25, 2014, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 25, 2014, 09:13:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 08:55:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:40:23 PM
To think of the bigger picture here. Why in the world would an 18 year old have a gun.
And if his mother really questions why he was killed she obviously didn't know what her kid was up to. Parental failure yet again.
Can't blame the cops for unruly kids.

Sweet. The rest of the world can absolve itself completely from any responsibility.

More turkey.

No Muppet........you are not responsible for how a single mom on the
South Side and of Chicago raises her kids

Yip, nothing to do with any of us.

More wine?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 25, 2014, 09:32:51 PM
LOL

I'll take a glass of champagne instead
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 25, 2014, 09:44:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 24, 2014, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:52:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 24, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Another shooting in Missouri, another innocent law abiding citizen killed, more protests against the cops. This is going to keep going.

Which NBA team will make a stand first?

Did he not point his weapon at the cops? It's funny how you know he is innocent

His mother said the was the victim with his girlfriend (she would wouldn't she?) while the cops said it was two men and one pointed a gun at the cops (they would wouldn't they?).

At this stage the stories are incompatible so we don't know who is wrong.

If he had a gun on him and did anything with it, you would have to be sympathetic towards the cops, especially after the shootings in NY. However if the cop completely misread the situation then you have another straw going on a creaking camels back.

I believe they have released footage of the man pointing the weapon at the police

Well that knocks that on the head then. Cops are fine in this one.
Apparantly that's incorrect
If what I've read is correct ( can't trust the media) - the video evidence was no use - too dark to determine if the kid pulled or showed a gun
Cop was supposedly issued with a body cam and a car cam - neither of which was turned on.

I don't think parents can always know where their kids are, esp if the kids get involved in 'gangs' unbeknownst to the parent(s)
But
Too many kids and parents are growing up looking to be the victim and point the finger if something goes wrong ( including where they are themselves guilty of a transgression)- this includes people in Ireland too ! ( ok we don't have guns abound - yet!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:28:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 25, 2014, 09:44:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 24, 2014, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:52:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 24, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 24, 2014, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Another shooting in Missouri, another innocent law abiding citizen killed, more protests against the cops. This is going to keep going.

Which NBA team will make a stand first?

Did he not point his weapon at the cops? It's funny how you know he is innocent

His mother said the was the victim with his girlfriend (she would wouldn't she?) while the cops said it was two men and one pointed a gun at the cops (they would wouldn't they?).

At this stage the stories are incompatible so we don't know who is wrong.

If he had a gun on him and did anything with it, you would have to be sympathetic towards the cops, especially after the shootings in NY. However if the cop completely misread the situation then you have another straw going on a creaking camels back.

I believe they have released footage of the man pointing the weapon at the police

Well that knocks that on the head then. Cops are fine in this one.
Apparantly that's incorrect
If what I've read is correct ( can't trust the media) - the video evidence was no use - too dark to determine if the kid pulled or showed a gun
Cop was supposedly issued with a body cam and a car cam - neither of which was turned on.

I don't think parents can always know where their kids are, esp if the kids get involved in 'gangs' unbeknownst to the parent(s)
But
Too many kids and parents are growing up looking to be the victim and point the finger if something goes wrong ( including where they are themselves guilty of a transgression)- this includes people in Ireland too ! ( ok we don't have guns abound - yet!)
The footage from the garage forecourt is online and you are correct that it isn't as cut and dried as made out above. Typically the action appears just out of shot although a lot of people are latching on to the fact that you can *just* make the guy out raising his right arm.
Will post a link.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 25, 2014, 10:31:03 PM
Couple of genuine questions.

1. What is a 'routine business check'?

2. Is a 'routine business check' normally conducted while off duty?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 25, 2014, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)

Hard to make much out of that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 11:01:31 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)

Hard to make much out of that.
Yip.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 25, 2014, 11:08:32 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 11:01:31 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)

Hard to make much out of that.
Yip.

Were the guy and the girl the two involved?

Or was it actually all 4 that walked across the petrol station.

Certainly it seems strange that 4 people who walk fairly normally across a petrol (gas) station can suddenly end up in a shooting.

Also the mother of the victim's statement regarding the girlfriend being their seems plausible.

But we don't see anything of the incident. The cop doesn't seem to do much in the way of 'giving chase' as he said he did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 05:31:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 08:55:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:40:23 PM
To think of the bigger picture here. Why in the world would an 18 year old have a gun.
And if his mother really questions why he was killed she obviously didn't know what her kid was up to. Parental failure yet again.
Can't blame the cops for unruly kids.

Sweet. The rest of the world can absolve itself completely from any responsibility.

More turkey.

The buck stops with the parents. If they aren't capable of raising them they shouldn't have them in the first place. They certainly don't add anything to the planet?

It IS the parents responsibility. I'd be a bit more understanding if this was someone who was older but at 18 a parent should be still in tune with what goes on under their roof, where their kid is at night and who their kid is hanging out with.

Ferrero Rocher anyone??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 26, 2014, 08:55:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 05:31:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 08:55:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:40:23 PM
To think of the bigger picture here. Why in the world would an 18 year old have a gun.
And if his mother really questions why he was killed she obviously didn't know what her kid was up to. Parental failure yet again.
Can't blame the cops for unruly kids.

Sweet. The rest of the world can absolve itself completely from any responsibility.

More turkey.

The buck stops with the parents. If they aren't capable of raising them they shouldn't have them in the first place. They certainly don't add anything to the planet?

It IS the parents responsibility. I'd be a bit more understanding if this was someone who was older but at 18 a parent should be still in tune with what goes on under their roof, where their kid is at night and who their kid is hanging out with.

Ferrero Rocher anyone??

Are you for real?

We used to send kids to college in Ireland at 16.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 26, 2014, 11:05:13 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)

Hard to make much out of that.
Jeez muppet
Will you two get a room and stop criticsising everything each other posts just because it's one of you - you two are draining the spirit of Christmas outta me !!

Def parents and bad parenting has some part to play sometimes , but even well brought up kids end up doing/dealing drugs/falling foul of the law etc

Yes muppet I was one of those younger ones heading to college - but was smart enough to know right from wrong. . I see parents around here abjecting parenting responsibility and their kids are future jailbirds/law transgressors ( in trouble already at 11-13 with the cops)

Too much bad parenting in USA - but that's not always the problem. It's just one potential contributing factor. USA in many ways is just a fcuked up country.

There are worse places IMO - tin pot countries where the cops are all powerful and the locals can get off with anything if they are wealthy, well connected and publicly apologise ....( for attempted murder, shootings, blackmail, extortion, embezzlement. Political office corruption)
Places like Aruba , Jamaica , Cayman Islands etc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 04:39:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 26, 2014, 08:55:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 05:31:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 08:55:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 25, 2014, 05:40:23 PM
To think of the bigger picture here. Why in the world would an 18 year old have a gun.
And if his mother really questions why he was killed she obviously didn't know what her kid was up to. Parental failure yet again.
Can't blame the cops for unruly kids.

Sweet. The rest of the world can absolve itself completely from any responsibility.

More turkey.

The buck stops with the parents. If they aren't capable of raising them they shouldn't have them in the first place. They certainly don't add anything to the planet?

It IS the parents responsibility. I'd be a bit more understanding if this was someone who was older but at 18 a parent should be still in tune with what goes on under their roof, where their kid is at night and who their kid is hanging out with.

Ferrero Rocher anyone??

Are you for real?

We used to send kids to college in Ireland at 16.

What relevance is that to this debate? I hardly think this hoodlum was a Yale or Harvard student.
Maybe his mother thought he was off to bible camp every night  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 26, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
Most people could give a $hit. 

The vast majority of these crimes occurr in neighborhoods that white people wouldnt drive through at any time of the day or night. Apart from paying for welfare through their taxes, white people in general are not impacted by this stuff you read about in these bad neighbourhoods
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on December 26, 2014, 07:31:12 PM
How's the Ebola going?

I heard earlier in the year that Obama has started a savage outbreak of it? I expect the new republican congress have got it under control?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 26, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
Most people could give a $hit. 

The vast majority of these crimes occurr in neighborhoods that white people wouldnt drive through at any time of the day or night. Apart from paying for welfare through their taxes, white people in general are not impacted by this stuff you read about in these bad neighbourhoods

It's a shame that's where tax money goes to. Worst still police officers are required to patrol such areas. Would be better to let them shoot it out amongst themselves. That way you wont get Sharpton and co complaining about the cops.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 26, 2014, 11:09:21 PM
thats whats so frustrating about whats happening in NYC. The cops there actually do care.....all credit is due to Giuliani and Bloomberg. Zero tolerance, aggressive policing has helped bring the murder rate down to its lowest levels in 20 years.

In Chicago (again in my opinion) the cops are more of the opinion that as long as the minorities are killing themselves....who cares. Theres complete areas of the South and West sides that are no go areas.

Stop and frisk actually works....as annoying and offensive as it must be to law abiding minority citizens. It would never fly in a Democratic run city Like Chicago hence the murder and mayhem that ensues. Giuliani and Bloomberg had the balls to implement it....Deblasio and his ilk are looking to dismantle it.  its really a shame

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/chicago-struggles-combat-gun-violence-article-1.1271786

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 26, 2014, 11:52:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 26, 2014, 11:05:13 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)

Hard to make much out of that.
Jeez muppet
Will you two get a room and stop criticsising everything each other posts just because it's one of you - you two are draining the spirit of Christmas outta me !!

Def parents and bad parenting has some part to play sometimes , but even well brought up kids end up doing/dealing drugs/falling foul of the law etc

Yes muppet I was one of those younger ones heading to college - but was smart enough to know right from wrong. . I see parents around here abjecting parenting responsibility and their kids are future jailbirds/law transgressors ( in trouble already at 11-13 with the cops)

Too much bad parenting in USA - but that's not always the problem. It's just one potential contributing factor. USA in many ways is just a fcuked up country.

There are worse places IMO - tin pot countries where the cops are all powerful and the locals can get off with anything if they are wealthy, well connected and publicly apologise ....( for attempted murder, shootings, blackmail, extortion, embezzlement. Political office corruption)
Places like Aruba , Jamaica , Cayman Islands etc

I don't think I am disagreeing with you.

It was the one size fits all tiny minds - bad parenting is responsible for everything - attitude that annoyed me. Pontificating about not knowing the whereabouts of 18 year olds is just naive in the extreme in good areas. In bad areas where the single mother has 3 jobs just to feed her kid, this attitude is just stupid meaningless rhetoric for the ladies who lunch types. The GAA equivalent to this thinking, is to take off the corner forward when you are 20 points down.

What is sad is the extreme ring wing attitude exposed above, i.e. it is their own fault and we should impose martial law until they cop themselves on. If that means shooting them dead for raising an arm then so be it. Even if they are 12 years old.

The populist whinging about spending tax payers money is even more comical. What would these places if there was less money spent on them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 27, 2014, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 26, 2014, 11:52:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 26, 2014, 11:05:13 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)

Hard to make much out of that.
Jeez muppet
Will you two get a room and stop criticsising everything each other posts just because it's one of you - you two are draining the spirit of Christmas outta me !!

Def parents and bad parenting has some part to play sometimes , but even well brought up kids end up doing/dealing drugs/falling foul of the law etc

Yes muppet I was one of those younger ones heading to college - but was smart enough to know right from wrong. . I see parents around here abjecting parenting responsibility and their kids are future jailbirds/law transgressors ( in trouble already at 11-13 with the cops)

Too much bad parenting in USA - but that's not always the problem. It's just one potential contributing factor. USA in many ways is just a fcuked up country.

There are worse places IMO - tin pot countries where the cops are all powerful and the locals can get off with anything if they are wealthy, well connected and publicly apologise ....( for attempted murder, shootings, blackmail, extortion, embezzlement. Political office corruption)
Places like Aruba , Jamaica , Cayman Islands etc

I don't think I am disagreeing with you.

It was the one size fits all tiny minds - bad parenting is responsible for everything - attitude that annoyed me. Pontificating about not knowing the whereabouts of 18 year olds is just naive in the extreme in good areas. In bad areas where the single mother has 3 jobs just to feed her kid, this attitude is just stupid meaningless rhetoric for the ladies who lunch types. The GAA equivalent to this thinking, is to take off the corner forward when you are 20 points down.

What is sad is the extreme ring wing attitude exposed above, i.e. it is their own fault and we should impose martial law until they cop themselves on. If that means shooting them dead for raising an arm then so be it. Even if they are 12 years old.

The populist whinging about spending tax payers money is even more comical. What would these places if there was less money spent on them?

LOL....spend a week on the South side of Chicago, then come back and give us your updated opinion......if youre still alive
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:57:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 26, 2014, 11:09:21 PM
thats whats so frustrating about whats happening in NYC. The cops there actually do care.....all credit is due to Giuliani and Bloomberg. Zero tolerance, aggressive policing has helped bring the murder rate down to its lowest levels in 20 years.

In Chicago (again in my opinion) the cops are more of the opinion that as long as the minorities are killing themselves....who cares. Theres complete areas of the South and West sides that are no go areas.

Stop and frisk actually works....as annoying and offensive as it must be to law abiding minority citizens. It would never fly in a Democratic run city Like Chicago hence the murder and mayhem that ensues. Giuliani and Bloomberg had the balls to implement it....Deblasio and his ilk are looking to dismantle it.  its really a shame

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/chicago-struggles-combat-gun-violence-article-1.1271786

You're asking black and Hispanic men to accept racial profiling for the greater good, to have their lives disrupted by harassment and suspicion,  purely because of their skin colour. Easy to support when you're not personally subject to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 05:43:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 26, 2014, 11:52:58 PM

It was the one size fits all tiny minds - bad parenting is responsible for everything - attitude that annoyed me. Pontificating about not knowing the whereabouts of 18 year olds is just naive in the extreme in good areas. In bad areas where the single mother has 3 jobs just to feed her kid, this attitude is just stupid meaningless rhetoric for the ladies who lunch types. The GAA equivalent to this thinking, is to take off the corner forward when you are 20 points down.

What is sad is the extreme ring wing attitude exposed above, i.e. it is their own fault and we should impose martial law until they cop themselves on. If that means shooting them dead for raising an arm then so be it. Even if they are 12 years old.

The populist whinging about spending tax payers money is even more comical. What would these places if there was less money spent on them?

Bad parenting is the starting point. You take on a responsibility. If you can't look after a puppy properly should you have one?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on December 27, 2014, 10:45:31 AM
I think foxcommander needs to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. Unbelieveably narrow thinking on such a subject.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 26, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
Most people could give a $hit. 

The vast majority of these crimes occurr in neighborhoods that white people wouldnt drive through at any time of the day or night. Apart from paying for welfare through their taxes, white people in general are not impacted by this stuff you read about in these bad neighbourhoods

It's a shame that's where tax money goes to. Worst still police officers are required to patrol such areas. Would be better to let them shoot it out amongst themselves. That way you wont get Sharpton and co complaining about the cops.

Yes, Sharpton is the main problem.   :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 26, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
Most people could give a $hit. 

The vast majority of these crimes occurr in neighborhoods that white people wouldnt drive through at any time of the day or night. Apart from paying for welfare through their taxes, white people in general are not impacted by this stuff you read about in these bad neighbourhoods

It's a shame that's where tax money goes to. Worst still police officers are required to patrol such areas. Would be better to let them shoot it out amongst themselves. That way you wont get Sharpton and co complaining about the cops.

Yes, Sharpton is the main problem.   :o

He's a baiter who uses the media to line his pockets. He gives the soundbytes to a section of his community when all the while he just gets paid nicely. Even Obama has to run everything through him first.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 03:45:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 27, 2014, 10:45:31 AM
I think foxcommander needs to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. Unbelieveably narrow thinking on such a subject.

I don't see the need to. You're making excuses for behavior issues.
Why should others have to put up with hoodlums who steal and kill for their own ends. Society is better off without them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:52:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 26, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
Most people could give a $hit. 

The vast majority of these crimes occurr in neighborhoods that white people wouldnt drive through at any time of the day or night. Apart from paying for welfare through their taxes, white people in general are not impacted by this stuff you read about in these bad neighbourhoods

It's a shame that's where tax money goes to. Worst still police officers are required to patrol such areas. Would be better to let them shoot it out amongst themselves. That way you wont get Sharpton and co complaining about the cops.

Yes, Sharpton is the main problem.   :o

He's a baiter who uses the media to line his pockets. He gives the soundbytes to a section of his community when all the while he just gets paid nicely. Even Obama has to run everything through him first.

I see. So not only is he the main problem when it comes to the cops killing unarmed black men, but he's the real power behind the throne in the White House! 

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! :D :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:56:05 PM
What's your opinion, Foxcommander, on Fox News, Limbaugh and their lackeys putting the outrage machine into overdrive over the murder of the two cops, blaming DeBlasio and Sharpton, when there was nary a mention of the various murders of cops earlier this year by right wing, anti-government idiots? The recent seven week manhunt for the survivalist dude who walked up behind and put a bullet in the head of an unsuspecting PA state trooper was hardly covered by comparison. No political angles to be exploited explored in those murders...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:59:09 PM
There are twelve police helicopters flying in formation, doing circles of the area I live in Queens at the moment. Presumably a tribute to the two cops. Funerals are this morning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 27, 2014, 04:00:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 03:45:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 27, 2014, 10:45:31 AM
I think foxcommander needs to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. Unbelieveably narrow thinking on such a subject.

I don't see the need to. You're making excuses for behavior issues.
Why should others have to put up with hoodlums who steal and kill for their own ends. Society is better off without them.

Why send in cops when we could nuke the place?

The world would be free of bad parenting forever!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:52:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 26, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
Most people could give a $hit. 

The vast majority of these crimes occurr in neighborhoods that white people wouldnt drive through at any time of the day or night. Apart from paying for welfare through their taxes, white people in general are not impacted by this stuff you read about in these bad neighbourhoods

It's a shame that's where tax money goes to. Worst still police officers are required to patrol such areas. Would be better to let them shoot it out amongst themselves. That way you wont get Sharpton and co complaining about the cops.

Yes, Sharpton is the main problem.   :o

He's a baiter who uses the media to line his pockets. He gives the soundbytes to a section of his community when all the while he just gets paid nicely. Even Obama has to run everything through him first.

I see. So not only is he the main problem when it comes to the cops killing unarmed black men, but he's the real power behind the throne in the White House! 

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! :D :o

There's plenty of folk behind the curtains but Sharpton is certainly a tool (!) who is more than willing to plunge his own community into chaos with a couple of inflammatory speeches here and there.
Creating tension between the police and communities isn't very helpful. If you check his track record of where he pops up you'll find certain patterns.
And again, if folk didn't carry guns and obeyed the police instructions they have nothing to worry about.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 27, 2014, 04:06:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 26, 2014, 11:52:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 26, 2014, 11:05:13 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 25, 2014, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html (http://www.wsj.com/video/new-footage-of-missouri-police-shooting/315B746D-037D-4232-AE34-00FB59EFD9DB.html)

Hard to make much out of that.
Jeez muppet
Will you two get a room and stop criticsising everything each other posts just because it's one of you - you two are draining the spirit of Christmas outta me !!

Def parents and bad parenting has some part to play sometimes , but even well brought up kids end up doing/dealing drugs/falling foul of the law etc

Yes muppet I was one of those younger ones heading to college - but was smart enough to know right from wrong. . I see parents around here abjecting parenting responsibility and their kids are future jailbirds/law transgressors ( in trouble already at 11-13 with the cops)

Too much bad parenting in USA - but that's not always the problem. It's just one potential contributing factor. USA in many ways is just a fcuked up country.

There are worse places IMO - tin pot countries where the cops are all powerful and the locals can get off with anything if they are wealthy, well connected and publicly apologise ....( for attempted murder, shootings, blackmail, extortion, embezzlement. Political office corruption)
Places like Aruba , Jamaica , Cayman Islands etc

I don't think I am disagreeing with you.

It was the one size fits all tiny minds - bad parenting is responsible for everything - attitude that annoyed me. Pontificating about not knowing the whereabouts of 18 year olds is just naive in the extreme in good areas. In bad areas where the single mother has 3 jobs just to feed her kid, this attitude is just stupid meaningless rhetoric for the ladies who lunch types. The GAA equivalent to this thinking, is to take off the corner forward when you are 20 points down.

What is sad is the extreme ring wing attitude exposed above, i.e. it is their own fault and we should impose martial law until they cop themselves on. If that means shooting them dead for raising an arm then so be it. Even if they are 12 years old.

The populist whinging about spending tax payers money is even more comical. What would these places if there was less money spent on them?

LOL....spend a week on the South side of Chicago, then come back and give us your updated opinion......if youre still alive

And because a white man would be at risk in the South side of Chicago proves that they are all deranged, sorry bad parents?

Put a man in a British army uniform in some parts of Ireland 30 years ago and he wouldn't have lasted an hour. Does that prove we are all bad parents?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 27, 2014, 04:08:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:52:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 26, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
Most people could give a $hit. 

The vast majority of these crimes occurr in neighborhoods that white people wouldnt drive through at any time of the day or night. Apart from paying for welfare through their taxes, white people in general are not impacted by this stuff you read about in these bad neighbourhoods

It's a shame that's where tax money goes to. Worst still police officers are required to patrol such areas. Would be better to let them shoot it out amongst themselves. That way you wont get Sharpton and co complaining about the cops.

Yes, Sharpton is the main problem.   :o

He's a baiter who uses the media to line his pockets. He gives the soundbytes to a section of his community when all the while he just gets paid nicely. Even Obama has to run everything through him first.

I see. So not only is he the main problem when it comes to the cops killing unarmed black men, but he's the real power behind the throne in the White House! 

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! :D :o

There's plenty of folk behind the curtains but Sharpton is certainly a tool (!) who is more than willing to plunge his own community into chaos with a couple of inflammatory speeches here and there.
Creating tension between the police and communities isn't very helpful. If you check his track record of where he pops up you'll find certain patterns.
And again, if folk didn't carry guns and obeyed the police instructions they have nothing to worry about.

What about the 12 year old, playing with a toy gun, shot in 2 seconds?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:52:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 26, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
Most people could give a $hit. 

The vast majority of these crimes occurr in neighborhoods that white people wouldnt drive through at any time of the day or night. Apart from paying for welfare through their taxes, white people in general are not impacted by this stuff you read about in these bad neighbourhoods

It's a shame that's where tax money goes to. Worst still police officers are required to patrol such areas. Would be better to let them shoot it out amongst themselves. That way you wont get Sharpton and co complaining about the cops.

Yes, Sharpton is the main problem.   :o

He's a baiter who uses the media to line his pockets. He gives the soundbytes to a section of his community when all the while he just gets paid nicely. Even Obama has to run everything through him first.

I see. So not only is he the main problem when it comes to the cops killing unarmed black men, but he's the real power behind the throne in the White House! 

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! :D :o

There's plenty of folk behind the curtains but Sharpton is certainly a tool (!) who is more than willing to plunge his own community into chaos with a couple of inflammatory speeches here and there.
Creating tension between the police and communities isn't very helpful. If you check his track record of where he pops up you'll find certain patterns.
And again, if folk didn't carry guns and obeyed the police instructions they have nothing to worry about.

I think you'll find that the tension between the police and those communities is more a product of police/justice system conduct in those communities than a couple of speeches by the likes of Sharpton. If I was a poor black person, I would certainly be telling my kids to take extra care when confronted by cops than I will my own white kids.
Sure, Sharpton jumps in to raise publicity in certain incidents, but he would hardly be in a position to do so if it wasn't ok with the respective families, now would he?
And why are right wingers so threatened and outraged by Sharpton, when their own ranks are replete with demagogues and thinly-disguised racists?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 05:59:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 04:08:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:52:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 26, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 26, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
Most people could give a $hit. 

The vast majority of these crimes occurr in neighborhoods that white people wouldnt drive through at any time of the day or night. Apart from paying for welfare through their taxes, white people in general are not impacted by this stuff you read about in these bad neighbourhoods

It's a shame that's where tax money goes to. Worst still police officers are required to patrol such areas. Would be better to let them shoot it out amongst themselves. That way you wont get Sharpton and co complaining about the cops.

Yes, Sharpton is the main problem.   :o

He's a baiter who uses the media to line his pockets. He gives the soundbytes to a section of his community when all the while he just gets paid nicely. Even Obama has to run everything through him first.

I see. So not only is he the main problem when it comes to the cops killing unarmed black men, but he's the real power behind the throne in the White House! 

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! :D :o

There's plenty of folk behind the curtains but Sharpton is certainly a tool (!) who is more than willing to plunge his own community into chaos with a couple of inflammatory speeches here and there.
Creating tension between the police and communities isn't very helpful. If you check his track record of where he pops up you'll find certain patterns.
And again, if folk didn't carry guns and obeyed the police instructions they have nothing to worry about.

What about the 12 year old, playing with a toy gun, shot in 2 seconds?

did he look 12? Hard to tell sometimes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:56:05 PM
What's your opinion, Foxcommander, on Fox News, Limbaugh and their lackeys putting the outrage machine into overdrive over the murder of the two cops, blaming DeBlasio and Sharpton, when there was nary a mention of the various murders of cops earlier this year by right wing, anti-government idiots? The recent seven week manhunt for the survivalist dude who walked up behind and put a bullet in the head of an unsuspecting PA state trooper was hardly covered by comparison. No political angles to be exploited explored in those murders...

Both sides of the media play their games. You have to be stupid not to see it.
If you watch CNN you'll see how biased they are and working towards another agenda. They give people like Roland Martin and Donna Brazil airtime to spew their views to the public and what they believe is certainly not hidden.
They covered the Trayvon Martin case like he was a saint and pretty much the same for Michael Brown, even transmitting his funeral!! I'm surprised they didn't ask Elton John to play Candle in the Wind at the gig, he was such a good lad.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 06:08:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 04:00:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 03:45:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 27, 2014, 10:45:31 AM
I think foxcommander needs to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. Unbelieveably narrow thinking on such a subject.

I don't see the need to. You're making excuses for behavior issues.
Why should others have to put up with hoodlums who steal and kill for their own ends. Society is better off without them.

Why send in cops when we could nuke the place?

The world would be free of bad parenting forever!

First bit of sense you've shown in a while. Nuking it would probably cause millions worth of improvements to the areas. Save tons on welfare into the bargain. Everyone's a winner.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 06:15:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 04:11:15 PM

I think you'll find that the tension between the police and those communities is more a product of police/justice system conduct in those communities than a couple of speeches by the likes of Sharpton. If I was a poor black person, I would certainly be telling my kids to take extra care when confronted by cops than I will my own white kids.
Sure, Sharpton jumps in to raise publicity in certain incidents, but he would hardly be in a position to do so if it wasn't ok with the respective families, now would he?
And why are right wingers so threatened and outraged by Sharpton, when their own ranks are replete with demagogues and thinly-disguised racists?

You're blaming the cops? You have to ask yourself why are the police going to these areas in the first place and risking their lives to protect people from their own communities. Put it another way, if people were behaving themselves would there be a need for police in their area?
but no..you're blaming the cops for stirring up trouble in the first place. Certainly no crime until they arrived....  ::)

No-one is threatened by Sharpton as he's just a troublemaker, but he seems to have the ear of influential people who are scared of the power he wields amongst his community. That's the problem. CNN gives him a platform as well which is dangerous.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 27, 2014, 06:19:44 PM
13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far.......NOT A WORD!!!!!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 06:15:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 04:11:15 PM

I think you'll find that the tension between the police and those communities is more a product of police/justice system conduct in those communities than a couple of speeches by the likes of Sharpton. If I was a poor black person, I would certainly be telling my kids to take extra care when confronted by cops than I will my own white kids.
Sure, Sharpton jumps in to raise publicity in certain incidents, but he would hardly be in a position to do so if it wasn't ok with the respective families, now would he?
And why are right wingers so threatened and outraged by Sharpton, when their own ranks are replete with demagogues and thinly-disguised racists?

You're blaming the cops? You have to ask yourself why are the police going to these areas in the first place and risking their lives to protect people from their own communities. Put it another way, if people were behaving themselves would there be a need for police in their area?
but no..you're blaming the cops for stirring up trouble in the first place. Certainly no crime until they arrived....  ::)

No-one is threatened by Sharpton as he's just a troublemaker, but he seems to have the ear of influential people who are scared of the power he wields amongst his community. That's the problem. CNN gives him a platform as well which is dangerous.

Where did I say there was no crime or blame the cops first?

I said the behaviour of the police and the criminal justice system was far more of a factor than Al Sharpton.

The stats show that black people are more likely to be fucked over by the justice system. A black kid is more likely to go to prison than a white person for the same offense. The studies are out there. Yeah, sure, the crime rates are higher among blacks due to history and poverty, but that doesn't justify the inferior treatment they get from what is supposed to be a fair and colour-blind justice system. And if I was a law-abiding young black man, and I was repeatedly getting pulled over, questioned, and even brought down to the station, basically being treated as a potential criminal for no reason other than the colour of my skin, yes, I would have a pretty jaundiced view of the cops.

Anecdotal, but there was a Reuters or AP story just last week in which 25 black current and retired NYPD cops were interviewed, and all but two had been profiled by fellow officers in their private lives, some treated very poorly. Most were afraid to complain due to fears of retaliation by the department. I seriously doubt a sample of 25 white cops would have the same stories to tell. Again, anecdotal, but illustrative, there was a story from NYC a couple of weeks back, when the protesters blocked the FDR. Two college friends were taking part, one black, one white, both sitting immediately together. The black kid was thrown in the back of the police van. The cops told the white kid to get the hell out of there and go home! When the white kid protested, the cops started complaining about the hassle of having to deal with him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 06:19:44 PM
13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far.......NOT A WORD!!!!!!

And an ex-army guy with PTSD murdered 6 people in PA last week. Not much word about that either.

Inner-city murders and mass killings are old news, given the frequency with which they occur. People basically tune out. When nothing happened after Sandy Hook, when the NRA and their shills in Congress refused to even countenance even closing the most basic of background checking loopholes, people threw their hands up in despair. In the case of Chicago, a lot of people tune out as it doesn't affect them or their loved ones.

Cops, organs of the state, killing unarmed and innocent people is a different story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 08:01:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:56:05 PM
What's your opinion, Foxcommander, on Fox News, Limbaugh and their lackeys putting the outrage machine into overdrive over the murder of the two cops, blaming DeBlasio and Sharpton, when there was nary a mention of the various murders of cops earlier this year by right wing, anti-government idiots? The recent seven week manhunt for the survivalist dude who walked up behind and put a bullet in the head of an unsuspecting PA state trooper was hardly covered by comparison. No political angles to be exploited explored in those murders...

Both sides of the media play their games. You have to be stupid not to see it.
If you watch CNN you'll see how biased they are and working towards another agenda. They give people like Roland Martin and Donna Brazil airtime to spew their views to the public and what they believe is certainly not hidden.
They covered the Trayvon Martin case like he was a saint and pretty much the same for Michael Brown, even transmitting his funeral!! I'm surprised they didn't ask Elton John to play Candle in the Wind at the gig, he was such a good lad.

CNN has nowhere near the influence in driving political discussion that Fox News and the right wing talk radio has. And having talking heads on to comment is not the same as having talking heads as presenters and drivers of interviews and agendas. There is no equivalent of Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity on CNN. There is no equivalent of Rush Limbaugh or his hordes of immitators to bring power to bear on the left. And Fox NEws and talk radio basically work hand-in-hand. CNN, MSNBC etc are irrelevant by comparison to them. Tell us one Democratic politician who really gives a shit what CNN or MSNBC say. Now look at the power Fox/talk radio have over Republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 27, 2014, 08:07:10 PM
So a Genuine question for all you cop haters......how does a civilian police force effectively police a city that's a war zone.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 27, 2014, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 08:07:10 PM
So a Genuine question for all you cop haters......how does a civilian police force effectively police a city that's a war zone.

This isn't a genuine question. It is as loaded Fox News style as you can get. See 'cop haters' and 'war zone', for example.

The fact that there were 13 murders in Chicago so far this week doesn't change the argument in favour of cops shooting black teenagers, or anyone they think is a black teenager, if anything it shows how completely out of control parts of the USA are.

There are two problems here:

1. The complete failure of the richest country in the world to provide a functioning society for many of its citizens.
2. A complete lack of accountability for anyone in law enforcement who kills someone who lives in a bad neighbourhood.

The two problems are connected, but some people here scream all about problem 1., as if it justifies problem 2.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 27, 2014, 08:41:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 08:07:10 PM
So a Genuine question for all you cop haters......how does a civilian police force effectively police a city that's a war zone.

This isn't a genuine question. It is as loaded Fox News style as you can get. See 'cop haters' and 'war zone', for example.

The fact that there were 13 murders in Chicago so far this week doesn't change the argument in favour of cops shooting black teenagers, or anyone they think is a black teenager, if anything it shows how completely out of control parts of the USA are.

There are two problems here:

1. The complete failure of the richest country in the world to provide a functioning society for many of its citizens.
2. A complete lack of accountability for anyone in law enforcement who kills someone who lives in a bad neighbourhood.

The two problems are connected, but some people here scream all about problem 1., as if it justifies problem 2.

So apart from attacking my question, you don't actually have an answer!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 27, 2014, 08:56:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 08:41:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 08:07:10 PM
So a Genuine question for all you cop haters......how does a civilian police force effectively police a city that's a war zone.

This isn't a genuine question. It is as loaded Fox News style as you can get. See 'cop haters' and 'war zone', for example.

The fact that there were 13 murders in Chicago so far this week doesn't change the argument in favour of cops shooting black teenagers, or anyone they think is a black teenager, if anything it shows how completely out of control parts of the USA are.

There are two problems here:

1. The complete failure of the richest country in the world to provide a functioning society for many of its citizens.
2. A complete lack of accountability for anyone in law enforcement who kills someone who lives in a bad neighbourhood.

The two problems are connected, but some people here scream all about problem 1., as if it justifies problem 2.

So apart from attacking my question, you don't actually have an answer!

It was a question for 'cop haters'. Why would I answer it?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 27, 2014, 09:05:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 08:07:10 PM
So a Genuine question for all you cop haters......how does a civilian police force effectively police a city that's a war zone.

Who are the "cop haters"?

Are you a "black hater"?

As to your question, I'm not a sociologist or criminologist. What is obvious is that selective targeting of and heightened institutional and authoritative suspicion of one ethnic group is going to do little to get that group onside with the authorities. And one would expect that a holistic approach would be required. Whether it is the Darndale, Killinarden or the south Bronx, crime rates go hand in hand with poverty and other social problems. Its going to take a lot more than flooding a neighbourhood with cops to solve the issues.

What do YOU think should be done?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:20:44 PM
Is this where you got the 13 murders line Whitey: http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/ (http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:20:44 PM
Is this where you got the 13 murders line Whitey: http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/ (http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/)

Actually I got it here....

http://homicides.suntimes.com

I have a particular interest in Chicago as thats where 99% of my US relatives live and I spend a lot of time out there. I have some extended family/friends involved in law enforcement out there, and have heard some of their horror stories first hand. 

I met a guy on a night out once who was a cop in the CHA....Chicago Housing Authority....he could tell you stories that would turn your hair white.

Its borderline impossible to even comprehend the levels of poverty, abuse , violence and hopelessness........http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sex-trafficking-sentencing-met-20141017-story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:20:44 PM
Is this where you got the 13 murders line Whitey: http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/ (http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/)

Actually I got it here....

http://homicides.suntimes.com

I have a particular interest in Chicago as thats where 99% of my US relatives live and I spend a lot of time out there. I have some extended family/friends involved in law enforcement out there, and have heard some of their horror stories first hand. 

I met a guy on a night out once who was a cop in the CHA....Chicago Housing Authority....he could tell you stories that would turn your hair white.

Its borderline impossible to even comprehend the levels of poverty, abuse , violence and hopelessness........http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sex-trafficking-sentencing-met-20141017-story.html

But Whitey, this is what you said:

Quote13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far.......NOT A WORD!!!!!!

Nowhere in the article does it mention anything like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:52:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:20:44 PM
Is this where you got the 13 murders line Whitey: http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/ (http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/)

Actually I got it here....

http://homicides.suntimes.com

I have a particular interest in Chicago as thats where 99% of my US relatives live and I spend a lot of time out there. I have some extended family/friends involved in law enforcement out there, and have heard some of their horror stories first hand. 

I met a guy on a night out once who was a cop in the CHA....Chicago Housing Authority....he could tell you stories that would turn your hair white.

Its borderline impossible to even comprehend the levels of poverty, abuse , violence and hopelessness........http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sex-trafficking-sentencing-met-20141017-story.html

But Whitey, this is what you said:

Quote13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far.......NOT A WORD!!!!!!

Nowhere in the article does it mention anything like that.

Ehhhhh........Im confused.........What are you questioning...the number of murders.....or the fact that we havent heard a chorus of outrage from the liberal apologists

heres another source: http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2014/12/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 27, 2014, 11:25:11 PM
Come on, lads. If blacks are shooting blacks, then the only solution is for cops to shoot innocent blacks. Get with the program!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 27, 2014, 11:34:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:52:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:20:44 PM
Is this where you got the 13 murders line Whitey: http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/ (http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/)

Actually I got it here....

http://homicides.suntimes.com

I have a particular interest in Chicago as thats where 99% of my US relatives live and I spend a lot of time out there. I have some extended family/friends involved in law enforcement out there, and have heard some of their horror stories first hand. 

I met a guy on a night out once who was a cop in the CHA....Chicago Housing Authority....he could tell you stories that would turn your hair white.

Its borderline impossible to even comprehend the levels of poverty, abuse , violence and hopelessness........http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sex-trafficking-sentencing-met-20141017-story.html

But Whitey, this is what you said:

Quote13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far.......NOT A WORD!!!!!!

Nowhere in the article does it mention anything like that.

Ehhhhh........Im confused.........What are you questioning...the number of murders.....or the fact that we havent heard a chorus of outrage from the liberal apologists

heres another source: http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2014/12/

That link doesn't match your claim '13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far' either Whitey.  :D

The police are supposed to protect the community, not shoot unarmed people. Your pointing to other shootings doesn't hide that in any way. A good start would be for people to admit mistakes instead of trying to cover them up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 12:00:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 11:34:18 PM
That link doesn't match your claim '13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far' either Whitey.  :D

The police are supposed to protect the community, not shoot unarmed people. Your pointing to other shootings doesn't hide that in any way. A good start would be for people to admit mistakes instead of trying to cover them up.

Are you seriously suggesting that the forces of law and order should be held to a higher standard than murderous criminals? The right is going to hate people like you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:16:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 11:34:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:52:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:20:44 PM
Is this where you got the 13 murders line Whitey: http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/ (http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/)

Actually I got it here....

http://homicides.suntimes.com

I have a particular interest in Chicago as thats where 99% of my US relatives live and I spend a lot of time out there. I have some extended family/friends involved in law enforcement out there, and have heard some of their horror stories first hand. 

I met a guy on a night out once who was a cop in the CHA....Chicago Housing Authority....he could tell you stories that would turn your hair white.

Its borderline impossible to even comprehend the levels of poverty, abuse , violence and hopelessness........http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sex-trafficking-sentencing-met-20141017-story.html

But Whitey, this is what you said:

Quote13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far.......NOT A WORD!!!!!!

Nowhere in the article does it mention anything like that.

Ehhhhh........Im confused.........What are you questioning...the number of murders.....or the fact that we havent heard a chorus of outrage from the liberal apologists

heres another source: http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2014/12/

That link doesn't match your claim '13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far' either Whitey.  :D

The police are supposed to protect the community, not shoot unarmed people. Your pointing to other shootings doesn't hide that in any way. A good start would be for people to admit mistakes instead of trying to cover them up.

Hmmmm.....I think you're right.  I read somewhere that there were 13 but that number may not be entirely accurate

There's 10 here

   5700 N. Campbell Ave.
West Ridge   Gunshot
David Drayton, 23
> Read more   12/26/14   300 E. 47th St.
Grand Boulevard   Gunshot
Name Unknown, 52
> Read more   12/25/14   1900 S. Trumbull Ave.
North Lawndale   Gunshot
Name Unknown, 20
> Read more   12/23/14   7800 S. Lowe Ave.
Auburn Gresham   Gunshot
Hakizimana Scott, 38
> Read more   12/23/14   1100 N. Leclaire Ave.
Austin   Gunshot
Glenn Houston, Jr., 23
> Read more   12/23/14   400 E. 79th St.
Greater Grand Crossing   Gunshot
Abraham Cooper, 19
> Read more   12/23/14   400 N. Lawler Ave.
Austin   Gunshot
Youman McKenzie, 23
> Read more   12/23/14   500 S. Central Park Blvd.
East Garfield Park   Gunshot
Ricardo Ruvalcaba, 18
> Read more
> Follow-up coverage   12/22/14   5500 W. 63rd Pl.
Clearing   Gunshot
Miguel Haro, 44
> Read more   12/21/14   7200 S. Hermitage Ave.
West Englewood   Gunshot

And then these other 2 deaths where people were charged with murder.....so that's 12 instead of 13. My bad



Youman McKenzie was fatally shot in the East Garfield Park neighborhood early Tuesday.

McKenzie, 23, was shot in the shoulder and left thigh in the 500 block of South Central Park Avenue about 2:40 a.m., authorities.

Witnesses told police McKenzie was exchanging gunfire with another person when he was shot, authorities said.
Read more

Filed under: Youman McKenzie

Prosecutors: Domestic abuse incident led to vehicular death
Posted Dec. 23, 2014, 3:50 p.m. by Michael Lansu | 4 Comments
Jason Rayford / Photo from Chicago Police
Jason Rayford / Photo from Chicago Police

BY RUMMANA HUSSAIN
Chicago Sun-Times

A far South Side man punched his wife as she drove a car and yanked the steering wheel, causing her to strike and kill a pedestrian over the weekend, Cook County prosecutors said.

Jason Rayford allegedly began arguing with one of two passengers who were seated in the black of the Chevrolet Impala as his wife made her way southbound on Western Avenue at 53rds Street early Sunday morning.

When his wife tried to intervene, Rayford, who was the front seat passenger, started punching her with a closed fist, Assistant State's Attorney Lashunda Cooperwood said at his bond hearing Tuesday.
Read more

Filed under: Reporter's Notebook

Suspected gunman charged with murder after getaway driver dies in crash
Posted Dec. 23, 2014, 3:13 p.m. by Michael Lansu | 8 Comments
Scene where Deandra Washington was killed in a crash / Photo from NVP
Scene where Deandra Washington was killed in a crash / Photo from NVP

BY JORDAN OWEN
Sun-Times Media

A Dolton man suspected in a non-fatal drive-by shooting has been charged with murder after his alleged getaway driver died when he crashed in the South Chicago neighborhood while attempting to allude police.

Officers parked in an alley conducting surveillance on a home in the 8000 block of South Manistee Avenue saw 22-year-old James Hopkins walk up to the house in a black hooded-sweatshirt and open fire on a man standing in the doorway about 9:45 p.m. Sunday, prosecutors said.

The 24-year-old man was shot in the leg and taken to South Shore Hospital, where he was treated and released, authorities said.

After the shooting, Hopkins got into the front passenger seat of a getaway car that fled south on Manistee Avenue, prosecutors said. One of the officers allegedly saw Hopkins remove his sweatshirt.
Read more


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 01:43:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 08:07:10 PM
So a Genuine question for all you cop haters......how does a civilian police force effectively police a city that's a war zone.

Seems like you need to let the civilians loot and do what they want.

And as for all you GAA folk out there I give you this.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/20/exclusive-victim-of-violent-brick-attack-in-the-bronx-absolutely-terrified-to-go-outside/

Attacked for no reason whatsoever.....ahem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 04:03:55 AM
It's a pity it has to be a choice between abject anarchy and cops shooting up innocent people left right and centre for being black. Pity there can't be some sort of middle ground somewhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 04:10:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 08:01:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:56:05 PM
What's your opinion, Foxcommander, on Fox News, Limbaugh and their lackeys putting the outrage machine into overdrive over the murder of the two cops, blaming DeBlasio and Sharpton, when there was nary a mention of the various murders of cops earlier this year by right wing, anti-government idiots? The recent seven week manhunt for the survivalist dude who walked up behind and put a bullet in the head of an unsuspecting PA state trooper was hardly covered by comparison. No political angles to be exploited explored in those murders...

Both sides of the media play their games. You have to be stupid not to see it.
If you watch CNN you'll see how biased they are and working towards another agenda. They give people like Roland Martin and Donna Brazil airtime to spew their views to the public and what they believe is certainly not hidden.
They covered the Trayvon Martin case like he was a saint and pretty much the same for Michael Brown, even transmitting his funeral!! I'm surprised they didn't ask Elton John to play Candle in the Wind at the gig, he was such a good lad.

CNN has nowhere near the influence in driving political discussion that Fox News and the right wing talk radio has. And having talking heads on to comment is not the same as having talking heads as presenters and drivers of interviews and agendas. There is no equivalent of Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity on CNN. There is no equivalent of Rush Limbaugh or his hordes of immitators to bring power to bear on the left. And Fox NEws and talk radio basically work hand-in-hand. CNN, MSNBC etc are irrelevant by comparison to them. Tell us one Democratic politician who really gives a shit what CNN or MSNBC say. Now look at the power Fox/talk radio have over Republicans.

That's not true. CNN is just as visible if not more than Fox. and as for the presenters.... Wolf Blitzer, Candy Crowley, Soledad O'Brien etc. certainly aren't impartial, even though they try to portray themselves that way. Not very difficult to pick up on the stations democratic leanings.

and as for Don Lemon..he must be Jesse Jackson's secret lovechild. I don't think I've ever watched a more biased presenter in all my life and that's saying something.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 04:25:53 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 04:10:51 AM
That's not true. CNN is just as visible if not more than Fox. and as for the presenters.... Wolf Blitzer, Candy Crowley, Soledad O'Brien etc. certainly aren't impartial, even though they try to portray themselves that way. Not very difficult to pick up on the stations democratic leanings.

and as for Don Lemon..he must be Jesse Jackson's secret lovechild. I don't think I've ever watched a more biased presenter in all my life and that's saying something.

Bull. CNN is quickly becoming irrelevant and is best known for being the channel that plays in airport lounges. They had their moment at the start of the Gulf War but that's long gone.  MSNBC tries to be the left's equivalent of Fox but doesn't come anywhere close. There's no coherence to their message, no strategy, no coordination of talking points like you get on Fox.  For example, Fox News management sends out a memo every morning saying what the talking points of the day are to be. Every single pundit and "newscaster" gets on board and repeats the same points all day long. By lunchtime Republican congressmen are using the same language.

On MSNBC it's all up to the discretion of individual broadcasters, and they seem to spend most of their time reacting to what the Fox heads and hate radio up and down the AM dial has to say, rather than setting their own agenda.

Fox are the masters of propaganda.

Obscure Republican lawmaker indicted for corruption or some other scandal? Okay, report it, but "accidentally" put a D beside his name rather than an R.

Democrat being interviewed and hitting every point out of the park? Flash a few distracting graphics up while he's talking.

Obama kicking the GOP's ass in a meeting? Cut the feed and say "we've got to leave it there..." while every other network keeps up the live coverage.

US military using snipers? Call them "sharp shooters" instead.

Democrats talking about ending the mission in Iraq? Talk about "staying the course" instead of setting a "surrender date."

Millions of people marching in Washington for gay rights? Ignore it. One person protesting somewhere in the middle of nowhere for a conservative cause? Send a camera crew for a live outside broadcast even if you're 24 hours too late.

If you're telling me that CNN or any other network comes anywhere close to that level of sophistication then I've got a bridge to sell you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 28, 2014, 04:40:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 04:10:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 08:01:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 27, 2014, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2014, 03:56:05 PM
What's your opinion, Foxcommander, on Fox News, Limbaugh and their lackeys putting the outrage machine into overdrive over the murder of the two cops, blaming DeBlasio and Sharpton, when there was nary a mention of the various murders of cops earlier this year by right wing, anti-government idiots? The recent seven week manhunt for the survivalist dude who walked up behind and put a bullet in the head of an unsuspecting PA state trooper was hardly covered by comparison. No political angles to be exploited explored in those murders...

Both sides of the media play their games. You have to be stupid not to see it.
If you watch CNN you'll see how biased they are and working towards another agenda. They give people like Roland Martin and Donna Brazil airtime to spew their views to the public and what they believe is certainly not hidden.
They covered the Trayvon Martin case like he was a saint and pretty much the same for Michael Brown, even transmitting his funeral!! I'm surprised they didn't ask Elton John to play Candle in the Wind at the gig, he was such a good lad.

CNN has nowhere near the influence in driving political discussion that Fox News and the right wing talk radio has. And having talking heads on to comment is not the same as having talking heads as presenters and drivers of interviews and agendas. There is no equivalent of Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity on CNN. There is no equivalent of Rush Limbaugh or his hordes of immitators to bring power to bear on the left. And Fox NEws and talk radio basically work hand-in-hand. CNN, MSNBC etc are irrelevant by comparison to them. Tell us one Democratic politician who really gives a shit what CNN or MSNBC say. Now look at the power Fox/talk radio have over Republicans.

That's not true. CNN is just as visible if not more than Fox. and as for the presenters.... Wolf Blitzer, Candy Crowley, Soledad O'Brien etc. certainly aren't impartial, even though they try to portray themselves that way. Not very difficult to pick up on the stations democratic leanings.

and as for Don Lemon..he must be Jesse Jackson's secret lovechild. I don't think I've ever watched a more biased presenter in all my life and that's saying something.

Seriously,  if you honestly think Wolf Blitzer or Candy Crowley comes anywhere close to replicating the influence of O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh,  Levin and the rest of them in American politics,  you're either ignorant or deluded.

And in terms of pure market share, the most recent numbers a quick Google search turns up are from 2011, when Fox averaged about 2 million, MSNBC about 0.75 million and CNN about 0.65.

I dont think I've ever heard of Don Lemon!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 05:23:06 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 04:25:53 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 04:10:51 AM
That's not true. CNN is just as visible if not more than Fox. and as for the presenters.... Wolf Blitzer, Candy Crowley, Soledad O'Brien etc. certainly aren't impartial, even though they try to portray themselves that way. Not very difficult to pick up on the stations democratic leanings.

and as for Don Lemon..he must be Jesse Jackson's secret lovechild. I don't think I've ever watched a more biased presenter in all my life and that's saying something.

Bull. CNN is quickly becoming irrelevant and is best known for being the channel that plays in airport lounges. They had their moment at the start of the Gulf War but that's long gone.  MSNBC tries to be the left's equivalent of Fox but doesn't come anywhere close. There's no coherence to their message, no strategy, no coordination of talking points like you get on Fox.  For example, Fox News management sends out a memo every morning saying what the talking points of the day are to be. Every single pundit and "newscaster" gets on board and repeats the same points all day long. By lunchtime Republican congressmen are using the same language.

On MSNBC it's all up to the discretion of individual broadcasters, and they seem to spend most of their time reacting to what the Fox heads and hate radio up and down the AM dial has to say, rather than setting their own agenda.

Fox are the masters of propaganda.

Obscure Republican lawmaker indicted for corruption or some other scandal? Okay, report it, but "accidentally" put a D beside his name rather than an R.

Democrat being interviewed and hitting every point out of the park? Flash a few distracting graphics up while he's talking.

Obama kicking the GOP's ass in a meeting? Cut the feed and say "we've got to leave it there..." while every other network keeps up the live coverage.

US military using snipers? Call them "sharp shooters" instead.

Democrats talking about ending the mission in Iraq? Talk about "staying the course" instead of setting a "surrender date."

Millions of people marching in Washington for gay rights? Ignore it. One person protesting somewhere in the middle of nowhere for a conservative cause? Send a camera crew for a live outside broadcast even if you're 24 hours too late.

If you're telling me that CNN or any other network comes anywhere close to that level of sophistication then I've got a bridge to sell you.

I'm glad you at least acknowledge it. The simple fact that they show CNN in airport lounges is enough to show how they want people to think.
To be honest anyone who takes the likes of O'Reilly, Hannity etc seriously needs their head checked. Ditto the democrat cheerleaders.

And even if you haven't heard of him (god knows how) Don Lemon is still an odious twerp.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 05:39:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 05:23:06 AM
I'm glad you at least acknowledge it. The simple fact that they show CNN in airport lounges is enough to show how they want people to think.

I really don't know what to make of that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 06:02:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 05:39:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 05:23:06 AM
I'm glad you at least acknowledge it. The simple fact that they show CNN in airport lounges is enough to show how they want people to think.

I really don't know what to make of that.

Its a bit like wearing a Liverpool or man u jersey to a game. You can tell who is supported by what they show.
clearer for you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 06:16:19 AM
"They"?  The people who select the channel in airport departure lounges? They're in on the liberal conspiracy? Do you not think it's a bit more probable that CNN is considered neutral enough that it's considered safe to screen in public, whereas MSNBC or Fox would generate a deluge of complaints?

I've heard right wing blowhards complain for years about "liberal bias" in the "mainstream media." Stephen Colbert summed it up when he said the "reality has a well-known liberal bias."  Conservative America has retreated so far into its alternate reality (in which Obama was born in Kenya and global warming is a hoax) that any media that reports in a neutral manner can be accused of reporting in a liberal manner. The only "bias" I ever see in the "mainstream media" is in the direction of sensationalism and gossip, not to the left. In fact if anything the mainstream media goes too far out of its way to accommodate the mad right with its "equal time to nutjobs" doctrine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 28, 2014, 06:50:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:16:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 11:34:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:52:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:20:44 PM
Is this where you got the 13 murders line Whitey: http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/ (http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/)

Actually I got it here....

http://homicides.suntimes.com

I have a particular interest in Chicago as thats where 99% of my US relatives live and I spend a lot of time out there. I have some extended family/friends involved in law enforcement out there, and have heard some of their horror stories first hand. 

I met a guy on a night out once who was a cop in the CHA....Chicago Housing Authority....he could tell you stories that would turn your hair white.

Its borderline impossible to even comprehend the levels of poverty, abuse , violence and hopelessness........http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sex-trafficking-sentencing-met-20141017-story.html

But Whitey, this is what you said:

Quote13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far.......NOT A WORD!!!!!!

Nowhere in the article does it mention anything like that.

Ehhhhh........Im confused.........What are you questioning...the number of murders.....or the fact that we havent heard a chorus of outrage from the liberal apologists

heres another source: http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2014/12/

That link doesn't match your claim '13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far' either Whitey.  :D

The police are supposed to protect the community, not shoot unarmed people. Your pointing to other shootings doesn't hide that in any way. A good start would be for people to admit mistakes instead of trying to cover them up.

Hmmmm.....I think you're right.  I read somewhere that there were 13 but that number may not be entirely accurate

There's 10 here

   5700 N. Campbell Ave.
West Ridge   Gunshot
David Drayton, 23
> Read more   12/26/14   300 E. 47th St.
Grand Boulevard   Gunshot
Name Unknown, 52
> Read more   12/25/14   1900 S. Trumbull Ave.
North Lawndale   Gunshot
Name Unknown, 20
> Read more   12/23/14   7800 S. Lowe Ave.
Auburn Gresham   Gunshot
Hakizimana Scott, 38
> Read more   12/23/14   1100 N. Leclaire Ave.
Austin   Gunshot
Glenn Houston, Jr., 23
> Read more   12/23/14   400 E. 79th St.
Greater Grand Crossing   Gunshot
Abraham Cooper, 19
> Read more   12/23/14   400 N. Lawler Ave.
Austin   Gunshot
Youman McKenzie, 23
> Read more   12/23/14   500 S. Central Park Blvd.
East Garfield Park   Gunshot
Ricardo Ruvalcaba, 18
> Read more
> Follow-up coverage   12/22/14   5500 W. 63rd Pl.
Clearing   Gunshot
Miguel Haro, 44
> Read more   12/21/14   7200 S. Hermitage Ave.
West Englewood   Gunshot

And then these other 2 deaths where people were charged with murder.....so that's 12 instead of 13. My bad



Youman McKenzie was fatally shot in the East Garfield Park neighborhood early Tuesday.

McKenzie, 23, was shot in the shoulder and left thigh in the 500 block of South Central Park Avenue about 2:40 a.m., authorities.

Witnesses told police McKenzie was exchanging gunfire with another person when he was shot, authorities said.
Read more

Filed under: Youman McKenzie

Prosecutors: Domestic abuse incident led to vehicular death
Posted Dec. 23, 2014, 3:50 p.m. by Michael Lansu | 4 Comments
Jason Rayford / Photo from Chicago Police
Jason Rayford / Photo from Chicago Police

BY RUMMANA HUSSAIN
Chicago Sun-Times

A far South Side man punched his wife as she drove a car and yanked the steering wheel, causing her to strike and kill a pedestrian over the weekend, Cook County prosecutors said.

Jason Rayford allegedly began arguing with one of two passengers who were seated in the black of the Chevrolet Impala as his wife made her way southbound on Western Avenue at 53rds Street early Sunday morning.

When his wife tried to intervene, Rayford, who was the front seat passenger, started punching her with a closed fist, Assistant State's Attorney Lashunda Cooperwood said at his bond hearing Tuesday.
Read more

Filed under: Reporter's Notebook

Suspected gunman charged with murder after getaway driver dies in crash
Posted Dec. 23, 2014, 3:13 p.m. by Michael Lansu | 8 Comments
Scene where Deandra Washington was killed in a crash / Photo from NVP
Scene where Deandra Washington was killed in a crash / Photo from NVP

BY JORDAN OWEN
Sun-Times Media

A Dolton man suspected in a non-fatal drive-by shooting has been charged with murder after his alleged getaway driver died when he crashed in the South Chicago neighborhood while attempting to allude police.

Officers parked in an alley conducting surveillance on a home in the 8000 block of South Manistee Avenue saw 22-year-old James Hopkins walk up to the house in a black hooded-sweatshirt and open fire on a man standing in the doorway about 9:45 p.m. Sunday, prosecutors said.

The 24-year-old man was shot in the leg and taken to South Shore Hospital, where he was treated and released, authorities said.

After the shooting, Hopkins got into the front passenger seat of a getaway car that fled south on Manistee Avenue, prosecutors said. One of the officers allegedly saw Hopkins remove his sweatshirt.
Read more

You were caught Whitey.  ;D

Time to stop the spoofing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 28, 2014, 06:55:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 06:02:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 05:39:27 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 05:23:06 AM
I'm glad you at least acknowledge it. The simple fact that they show CNN in airport lounges is enough to show how they want people to think.

I really don't know what to make of that.

Its a bit like wearing a Liverpool or man u jersey to a game. You can tell who is supported by what they show.
clearer for you?

But they are both football clubs.

CNN is a TV channel, Fox News is a medium to persuade stupid people that they should give money to rich people to protect them.

BTW I am a Nigerian Princess and I need to stash $100M dollars in a nice person's account. If you know anyone who can help contact me at HookLine&Sinker@PoorRupert.Con
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:18:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 06:50:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:16:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 11:34:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:52:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 27, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2014, 09:20:44 PM
Is this where you got the 13 murders line Whitey: http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/ (http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/170755-13-murders-in-chicago-since-december-1-2014-but-no-one-cares/)

Actually I got it here....

http://homicides.suntimes.com

I have a particular interest in Chicago as thats where 99% of my US relatives live and I spend a lot of time out there. I have some extended family/friends involved in law enforcement out there, and have heard some of their horror stories first hand. 

I met a guy on a night out once who was a cop in the CHA....Chicago Housing Authority....he could tell you stories that would turn your hair white.

Its borderline impossible to even comprehend the levels of poverty, abuse , violence and hopelessness........http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sex-trafficking-sentencing-met-20141017-story.html

But Whitey, this is what you said:

Quote13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far.......NOT A WORD!!!!!!

Nowhere in the article does it mention anything like that.

Ehhhhh........Im confused.........What are you questioning...the number of murders.....or the fact that we havent heard a chorus of outrage from the liberal apologists

heres another source: http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2014/12/

That link doesn't match your claim '13 people murdered in Chicago this week so far' either Whitey.  :D

The police are supposed to protect the community, not shoot unarmed people. Your pointing to other shootings doesn't hide that in any way. A good start would be for people to admit mistakes instead of trying to cover them up.

Hmmmm.....I think you're right.  I read somewhere that there were 13 but that number may not be entirely accurate

There's 10 here

   5700 N. Campbell Ave.
West Ridge   Gunshot
David Drayton, 23
> Read more   12/26/14   300 E. 47th St.
Grand Boulevard   Gunshot
Name Unknown, 52
> Read more   12/25/14   1900 S. Trumbull Ave.
North Lawndale   Gunshot
Name Unknown, 20
> Read more   12/23/14   7800 S. Lowe Ave.
Auburn Gresham   Gunshot
Hakizimana Scott, 38
> Read more   12/23/14   1100 N. Leclaire Ave.
Austin   Gunshot
Glenn Houston, Jr., 23
> Read more   12/23/14   400 E. 79th St.
Greater Grand Crossing   Gunshot
Abraham Cooper, 19
> Read more   12/23/14   400 N. Lawler Ave.
Austin   Gunshot
Youman McKenzie, 23
> Read more   12/23/14   500 S. Central Park Blvd.
East Garfield Park   Gunshot
Ricardo Ruvalcaba, 18
> Read more
> Follow-up coverage   12/22/14   5500 W. 63rd Pl.
Clearing   Gunshot
Miguel Haro, 44
> Read more   12/21/14   7200 S. Hermitage Ave.
West Englewood   Gunshot

And then these other 2 deaths where people were charged with murder.....so that's 12 instead of 13. My bad



Youman McKenzie was fatally shot in the East Garfield Park neighborhood early Tuesday.

McKenzie, 23, was shot in the shoulder and left thigh in the 500 block of South Central Park Avenue about 2:40 a.m., authorities.

Witnesses told police McKenzie was exchanging gunfire with another person when he was shot, authorities said.
Read more

Filed under: Youman McKenzie

Prosecutors: Domestic abuse incident led to vehicular death
Posted Dec. 23, 2014, 3:50 p.m. by Michael Lansu | 4 Comments
Jason Rayford / Photo from Chicago Police
Jason Rayford / Photo from Chicago Police

BY RUMMANA HUSSAIN
Chicago Sun-Times

A far South Side man punched his wife as she drove a car and yanked the steering wheel, causing her to strike and kill a pedestrian over the weekend, Cook County prosecutors said.

Jason Rayford allegedly began arguing with one of two passengers who were seated in the black of the Chevrolet Impala as his wife made her way southbound on Western Avenue at 53rds Street early Sunday morning.

When his wife tried to intervene, Rayford, who was the front seat passenger, started punching her with a closed fist, Assistant State's Attorney Lashunda Cooperwood said at his bond hearing Tuesday.
Read more

Filed under: Reporter's Notebook

Suspected gunman charged with murder after getaway driver dies in crash
Posted Dec. 23, 2014, 3:13 p.m. by Michael Lansu | 8 Comments
Scene where Deandra Washington was killed in a crash / Photo from NVP
Scene where Deandra Washington was killed in a crash / Photo from NVP

BY JORDAN OWEN
Sun-Times Media

A Dolton man suspected in a non-fatal drive-by shooting has been charged with murder after his alleged getaway driver died when he crashed in the South Chicago neighborhood while attempting to allude police.

Officers parked in an alley conducting surveillance on a home in the 8000 block of South Manistee Avenue saw 22-year-old James Hopkins walk up to the house in a black hooded-sweatshirt and open fire on a man standing in the doorway about 9:45 p.m. Sunday, prosecutors said.

The 24-year-old man was shot in the leg and taken to South Shore Hospital, where he was treated and released, authorities said.

After the shooting, Hopkins got into the front passenger seat of a getaway car that fled south on Manistee Avenue, prosecutors said. One of the officers allegedly saw Hopkins remove his sweatshirt.
Read more

You were caught Whitey.  ;D

Time to stop the spoofing.

http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/


YAWWWWWNNNNN........


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 06:55:41 AM
But they are both football clubs.

CNN is a TV channel, Fox News is a medium to persuade stupid people that they should give money to rich people to protect them.

And tv stations have followers, just like political parties and football teams. I presume you were being deliberately ignorant there.
CNN is liberal claptrap which dedicates programming to some very narrow subjects (basically minorities bitching about not getting enough money and trying to stick a guilt trip to America. You know, the same tactic that elected the president).  That's certainly not TV for all.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 28, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:18:51 PM
http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/


YAWWWWWNNNNN........

Finally. An far right-wing blog was the source, not a newspaper as you originally claimed.

Interesting site that. It got website of the week on http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505 (http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505) no less.

But if you blow up the picture you can see the types of homicide, including 'police homicide'. The ones with the black dots are police homicides.

Saying no one has mentioned the other murders last week is nothing more than a straw man argument and is irrelevant to the debate. It would be the same as me saying 'not pointing at all the other police homicides proves we are not cop haters'. Each case is unique and must be assessed individually, which is what an investigation and a court case would de, if they were allowed to happen.

But it is very obvious that those saying it is ok to shoot unarmed black men have to base their arguments gimmicks such as faux outrage at the lack of outrage regarding some other outrage. No one is fooled by this stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 28, 2014, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 06:55:41 AM
But they are both football clubs.

CNN is a TV channel, Fox News is a medium to persuade stupid people that they should give money to rich people to protect them.

And tv stations have followers, just like political parties and football teams. I presume you were being deliberately ignorant there.
CNN is liberal claptrap which dedicates programming to some very narrow subjects (basically minorities bitching about not getting enough money and trying to stick a guilt trip to America. You know, the same tactic that elected the president).  That's certainly not TV for all.

No TV is TV for all. None of it.

But you are right, minorities shouldn't be on TV. Their poverty is an Act of God and should be let run its course. The great Charles Trevelyan would have approved of you thinking I'm sure.

As for this: 'TV stations have followers'!

;D ;D ;D

Really? Maybe on your planet but I have yet to meet football fan equivalents who support TV channels. The despicable Fox News obviously accepted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 28, 2014, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:18:51 PM
http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/


YAWWWWWNNNNN........

Finally. An far right-wing blog was the source, not a newspaper as you originally claimed.

Interesting site that. It got website of the week on http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505 (http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505) no less.

But if you blow up the picture you can see the types of homicide, including 'police homicide'. The ones with the black dots are police homicides.

Saying no one has mentioned the other murders last week is nothing more than a straw man argument and is irrelevant to the debate. It would be the same as me saying 'not pointing at all the other police homicides proves we are not cop haters'. Each case is unique and must be assessed individually, which is what an investigation and a court case would de, if they were allowed to happen.

But it is very obvious that those saying it is ok to shoot unarmed black men have to base their arguments gimmicks such as faux outrage at the lack of outrage regarding some other outrage. No one is fooled by this stuff.

Address the black on black murders and stop changing the subject. Doesn't matter where I got them. Whether it's 10,11 or 12 it's a bloody disgrace and the silence from the black leDership is deafening

Easier to. Lame the cops than take responsibility
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 28, 2014, 05:03:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 06:55:41 AM
But they are both football clubs.

CNN is a TV channel, Fox News is a medium to persuade stupid people that they should give money to rich people to protect them.

And tv stations have followers, just like political parties and football teams. I presume you were being deliberately ignorant there.
CNN is liberal claptrap which dedicates programming to some very narrow subjects (basically minorities bitching about not getting enough money and trying to stick a guilt trip to America. You know, the same tactic that elected the president).  That's certainly not TV for all.

I don't watch CNN with any regularity, so perhaps you could list some of these programmes they apparently saturate their schedule with. I was under the impression that they were just wall-to-wall hype/overkill of whatever the story of the day is, whether it is missing or downed airliners, weather disasters, Ebola, the elections etc.

I voted for Obama twice. I know quite a few people who did likewise.

Not once has minorities bitching about getting money and trying to guilt trip America come up in conversation.

To be honest, I generally vote defensively i.e. against the anti-intellectualism, anti-science, bigotry, homophobia, anti-environmentalism etc. of the national GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 28, 2014, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:18:51 PM
http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/


YAWWWWWNNNNN........

Finally. An far right-wing blog was the source, not a newspaper as you originally claimed.

Interesting site that. It got website of the week on http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505 (http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505) no less.

But if you blow up the picture you can see the types of homicide, including 'police homicide'. The ones with the black dots are police homicides.

Saying no one has mentioned the other murders last week is nothing more than a straw man argument and is irrelevant to the debate. It would be the same as me saying 'not pointing at all the other police homicides proves we are not cop haters'. Each case is unique and must be assessed individually, which is what an investigation and a court case would de, if they were allowed to happen.

But it is very obvious that those saying it is ok to shoot unarmed black men have to base their arguments gimmicks such as faux outrage at the lack of outrage regarding some other outrage. No one is fooled by this stuff.

Address the black on black murders and stop changing the subject. Doesn't matter where I got them. Whether it's 10,11 or 12 it's a bloody disgrace and the silence from the black leDership is deafening

Easier to. Lame the cops than take responsibility

Yes, perhaps Sharpton might have chosen an event like Michael Brown's funeral to talk about black on black crime...  oh wait, he did! (not that Fox News would tell you this)

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/al-sharpton-michael-brown-eulogy (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/al-sharpton-michael-brown-eulogy)

Perhaps he should have gone to Chicago to lend his influence... oh wait, he did!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chapman/ct-black-crime-ferguson-sharpton-jason-riley-steve-20140820-column.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chapman/ct-black-crime-ferguson-sharpton-jason-riley-steve-20140820-column.html)

What about after a bad weekend of shootings in Harlem in 2008... yes, then too...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rev-al-sharpton-talk-violence-black-neighborhoods-article-1.292142 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rev-al-sharpton-talk-violence-black-neighborhoods-article-1.292142)

That's just the first few links on a Google search.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 28, 2014, 05:17:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:18:51 PM
http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/


YAWWWWWNNNNN........

Finally. An far right-wing blog was the source, not a newspaper as you originally claimed.

Interesting site that. It got website of the week on http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505 (http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505) no less.

But if you blow up the picture you can see the types of homicide, including 'police homicide'. The ones with the black dots are police homicides.

Saying no one has mentioned the other murders last week is nothing more than a straw man argument and is irrelevant to the debate. It would be the same as me saying 'not pointing at all the other police homicides proves we are not cop haters'. Each case is unique and must be assessed individually, which is what an investigation and a court case would de, if they were allowed to happen.

But it is very obvious that those saying it is ok to shoot unarmed black men have to base their arguments gimmicks such as faux outrage at the lack of outrage regarding some other outrage. No one is fooled by this stuff.

Address the black on black murders and stop changing the subject. Doesn't matter where I got them. Whether it's 10,11 or 12 it's a bloody disgrace and the silence from the black leDership is deafening

Easier to. Lame the cops than take responsibility

That isn't the subject.

The recent cases of police killing unarmed blacks is the subject. You can't discuss those cases so you are the one trying to change the subject.

Blaming the cops for strangling an unarmed Eric Garner is not the same thing as blaming the cops for everything, or being a cop hater. This is blatantly obvious to any sane person, but to support your defence of the cop who killed Garner you need to talk about something else. Fox News style. Change the subject and rant angrily about some straw man argument.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 28, 2014, 05:33:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 05:17:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:18:51 PM
http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/


YAWWWWWNNNNN........

Finally. An far right-wing blog was the source, not a newspaper as you originally claimed.

Interesting site that. It got website of the week on http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505 (http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505) no less.

But if you blow up the picture you can see the types of homicide, including 'police homicide'. The ones with the black dots are police homicides.

Saying no one has mentioned the other murders last week is nothing more than a straw man argument and is irrelevant to the debate. It would be the same as me saying 'not pointing at all the other police homicides proves we are not cop haters'. Each case is unique and must be assessed individually, which is what an investigation and a court case would de, if they were allowed to happen.

But it is very obvious that those saying it is ok to shoot unarmed black men have to base their arguments gimmicks such as faux outrage at the lack of outrage regarding some other outrage. No one is fooled by this stuff.

Address the black on black murders and stop changing the subject. Doesn't matter where I got them. Whether it's 10,11 or 12 it's a bloody disgrace and the silence from the black leDership is deafening

Easier to. Lame the cops than take responsibility

That isn't the subject.

The recent cases of police killing unarmed blacks is the subject. You can't discuss those cases so you are the one trying to change the subject.

Blaming the cops for strangling an unarmed Eric Garner is not the same thing as blaming the cops for everything, or being a cop hater. This is blatantly obvious to any sane person, but to support your defence of the cop who killed Garner you need to talk about something else. Fox News style. Change the subject and rant angrily about some straw man argument.

Thanks.... So you have nothing to say on the topic apart from changing the subject-LOL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 28, 2014, 05:34:13 PM
Another silly gimmick.

Well it is pantomime season.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 06:37:50 PM
People who compare Fox News to CNN are like people who compare the Orange Order to the GAA. Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 28, 2014, 06:48:29 PM
it did take me a while and I did bite a few times, but Whitey and Foxcommander are actually hilarious. I'm not sure about the "on purpose" nature of the comedy, but if you step back and read their posts, it puts a smile on your face. The added bonus is that it gives you that smug, "there but for the grace of God" feeling.

I'm rather looking forward to some of our posters internal conflicts manifesting when Pope Francis releases the cyclical on Global warming, and the duties and obligations of Catholics in that regard. The Irish Americans will be clean fucked.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 28, 2014, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 28, 2014, 06:48:29 PM
it did take me a while and I did bite a few times, but Whitey and Foxcommander are actually hilarious. I'm not sure about the "on purpose" nature of the comedy, but if you step back and read their posts, it puts a smile on your face. The added bonus is that it gives you that smug, "there but for the grace of God" feeling.

I'm rather looking forward to some of our posters internal conflicts manifesting when Pope Francis releases the cyclical on Global warming, and the duties and obligations of Catholics in that regard. The Irish Americans will be clean fucked.

Good man Heagenboy......glad to see you made it through the Christmas. 

Why don't we have some of our New York based posters give their first hand experiences of the NYPD.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/23/three-cheers-for-the-nypd/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2014, 09:20:52 PM
I stopped reading at "nypost.com"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on December 28, 2014, 09:29:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 28, 2014, 06:48:29 PM
it did take me a while and I did bite a few times, but Whitey and Foxcommander are actually hilarious. I'm not sure about the "on purpose" nature of the comedy, but if you step back and read their posts, it puts a smile on your face. The added bonus is that it gives you that smug, "there but for the grace of God" feeling.

I'm rather looking forward to some of our posters internal conflicts manifesting when Pope Francis releases the cyclical on Global warming, and the duties and obligations of Catholics in that regard. The Irish Americans will be clean fucked.

Good man Heagenboy......glad to see you made it through the Christmas. 

Why don't we have some of our New York based posters give their first hand experiences of the NYPD.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/23/three-cheers-for-the-nypd/

"We support the cops. Unequivocally."

See, that's the kind of blinkered attitude that gets people in trouble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 04:51:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 28, 2014, 05:03:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 06:55:41 AM
But they are both football clubs.

CNN is a TV channel, Fox News is a medium to persuade stupid people that they should give money to rich people to protect them.

And tv stations have followers, just like political parties and football teams. I presume you were being deliberately ignorant there.
CNN is liberal claptrap which dedicates programming to some very narrow subjects (basically minorities bitching about not getting enough money and trying to stick a guilt trip to America. You know, the same tactic that elected the president).  That's certainly not TV for all.

I don't watch CNN with any regularity, so perhaps you could list some of these programmes they apparently saturate their schedule with. I was under the impression that they were just wall-to-wall hype/overkill of whatever the story of the day is, whether it is missing or downed airliners, weather disasters, Ebola, the elections etc.

I voted for Obama twice. I know quite a few people who did likewise.

Not once has minorities bitching about getting money and trying to guilt trip America come up in conversation.

To be honest, I generally vote defensively i.e. against the anti-intellectualism, anti-science, bigotry, homophobia, anti-environmentalism etc. of the national GOP.

Maybe you havent got your contacts in but you obviously haven't watched CNN then. The pro-Obama slant is fairly noticeable. You must not have watched their election coverage, O'Briens "in America" series or the "history month" series. Guilt trips no?

The anchor I mentioned before...well guess what I found. Can you now concede that CNN isn't just fluff at airport lounges?
It has an agenda.

(http://d32dsh9a6dg9hg.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/DL_HousingWebGraphic.jpg)

If you don't know who he is then you certainly haven't watched CNN.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 05:31:41 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 28, 2014, 06:48:29 PM
it did take me a while and I did bite a few times, but Whitey and Foxcommander are actually hilarious. I'm not sure about the "on purpose" nature of the comedy, but if you step back and read their posts, it puts a smile on your face. The added bonus is that it gives you that smug, "there but for the grace of God" feeling.

I'm rather looking forward to some of our posters internal conflicts manifesting when Pope Francis releases the cyclical on Global warming, and the duties and obligations of Catholics in that regard. The Irish Americans will be clean fucked.

Smug. That's a great word to use to sum up the liberal PC brigade.
Glad you enjoy my posts. Maybe you'll see the light eventually.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 05:42:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 07:01:21 PM

Good man Heagenboy......glad to see you made it through the Christmas. 

Why don't we have some of our New York based posters give their first hand experiences of the NYPD.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/23/three-cheers-for-the-nypd/

I'm still waiting for our liberal pals on here to admit Sharpton and Di Blasio have caused problems for the police forces in the US with their words.
any time soon lads?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 29, 2014, 08:06:50 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 05:42:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 07:01:21 PM

Good man Heagenboy......glad to see you made it through the Christmas. 

Why don't we have some of our New York based posters give their first hand experiences of the NYPD.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/23/three-cheers-for-the-nypd/

I'm still waiting for our liberal pals on here to admit Sharpton and Di Blasio have caused problems for the police forces in the US with their words.
any time soon lads?

With their words?

Have the killings of unarmed men with bullets and Eric Garner's strangulation not 'caused problems for the police forces in the US'?

How come people like you can't say that some of these cops f*cked up? 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 29, 2014, 02:17:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 05:42:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 07:01:21 PM

Good man Heagenboy......glad to see you made it through the Christmas. 

Why don't we have some of our New York based posters give their first hand experiences of the NYPD.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/23/three-cheers-for-the-nypd/

I'm still waiting for our liberal pals on here to admit Sharpton and Di Blasio have caused problems for the police forces in the US with their words.
any time soon lads?

DeBlasio did f**k all wrong. The behaviour of the police unions towards him is nothing short of a disgrace, but they go through the same shit with every mayor, Democrat or Republican. That Pat Lynch is a lowlife thug.

And you have failed to prove anything with respect to Sharpton being the cause of problems between the police and the black community.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 29, 2014, 02:28:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 04:51:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 28, 2014, 05:03:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 06:55:41 AM
But they are both football clubs.

CNN is a TV channel, Fox News is a medium to persuade stupid people that they should give money to rich people to protect them.

And tv stations have followers, just like political parties and football teams. I presume you were being deliberately ignorant there.
CNN is liberal claptrap which dedicates programming to some very narrow subjects (basically minorities bitching about not getting enough money and trying to stick a guilt trip to America. You know, the same tactic that elected the president).  That's certainly not TV for all.

I don't watch CNN with any regularity, so perhaps you could list some of these programmes they apparently saturate their schedule with. I was under the impression that they were just wall-to-wall hype/overkill of whatever the story of the day is, whether it is missing or downed airliners, weather disasters, Ebola, the elections etc.

I voted for Obama twice. I know quite a few people who did likewise.

Not once has minorities bitching about getting money and trying to guilt trip America come up in conversation.

To be honest, I generally vote defensively i.e. against the anti-intellectualism, anti-science, bigotry, homophobia, anti-environmentalism etc. of the national GOP.

Maybe you havent got your contacts in but you obviously haven't watched CNN then. The pro-Obama slant is fairly noticeable. You must not have watched their election coverage, O'Briens "in America" series or the "history month" series. Guilt trips no?

The anchor I mentioned before...well guess what I found. Can you now concede that CNN isn't just fluff at airport lounges?
It has an agenda.

(http://d32dsh9a6dg9hg.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/DL_HousingWebGraphic.jpg)

If you don't know who he is then you certainly haven't watched CNN.

Listen, just because they don't align with Fox News does not make them biased. And what the hell has Black History month got to do with a political agenda? Does it make diddums sad and guilt-ridden to see the contributions of blacks in US history recognized? Or are you like a hardline northern Unionist, who sees any recognition of catholics and the harm done to them over the decades as a betrayal and sellout of Protestants?

Like I said, I rarely watch CNN. I have obviously seen it however, indeed usually in an airport, but often because my mother is an avid viewer. I have never seen anything even approaching the spin and bias that Fox put on everything. Rigor mortis had yet to set in on those two unfortunate cops last week when the Fox hair-do of that hour was blaming DeBlasio and Sharpton. Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer, two of their biggest stars, are nothing like O'Reilly or Hannity or Van Susteren or The Five etc. etc. Although I suppose Anderson Cooper must be biased because he is gay...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 29, 2014, 02:36:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 28, 2014, 06:48:29 PM
it did take me a while and I did bite a few times, but Whitey and Foxcommander are actually hilarious. I'm not sure about the "on purpose" nature of the comedy, but if you step back and read their posts, it puts a smile on your face. The added bonus is that it gives you that smug, "there but for the grace of God" feeling.

I'm rather looking forward to some of our posters internal conflicts manifesting when Pope Francis releases the cyclical on Global warming, and the duties and obligations of Catholics in that regard. The Irish Americans will be clean fucked.

Good man Heagenboy......glad to see you made it through the Christmas. 

Why don't we have some of our New York based posters give their first hand experiences of the NYPD.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/23/three-cheers-for-the-nypd/

I've personally had no problems with the cops in any interactions I've had. I know a few cops as well, and they're all sound men.

But, I'm white. I've got a white family. I live in a mostly white neighbourhood. I'm not likely to be pulled over and stopped when driving  or walking down the street just based on my skin colour. I'm not likely to meet one in the stairwell of a public housing building and be viewed with suspicion, based purely on my skin colour.

BTW, the Post's editorial is the first I've heard of the Eric Garner video being edited to cast the cops in a poor light. I don't see what extenuating circumstances there could be for the way they treated him.

And for those who don't know, the Post is the NYC equivalent of the Sun (without the tits and ass). Also owned by Murdoch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 29, 2014, 02:57:14 PM
I wonder how opinions of the RUC in the six counties would gave broken down by background? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 29, 2014, 05:09:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 05:31:41 AM

Smug. That's a great word to use to sum up the liberal PC brigade.
Glad you enjoy my posts. Maybe you'll see the light eventually.

I do enjoy your posts fella, keep em coming.

I have to say it is definitely the first time I have been called part of the liberal PC brigade. Loving it.

Is that the bright white light way over there on the right you're talking about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 29, 2014, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 29, 2014, 05:09:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 05:31:41 AM

Smug. That's a great word to use to sum up the liberal PC brigade.
Glad you enjoy my posts. Maybe you'll see the light eventually.

I do enjoy your posts fella, keep em coming.

I have to say it is definitely the first time I have been called part of the liberal PC brigade. Loving it.

Is that the bright white light way over there on the right you're talking about?

This is the Fox News effect.

I am politically right of centre (with a touch of socialism regarding health and education, which I believe should be free for all). But what US politics calls the centre is so far to the right that anything else is deemed left, liberal etc. Many Democrats simply position themselves slightly left of the GOP, but by any definition are way, way right in their policies.

This site is great though. The Shinners have called me a Thatcherite, while the Fox News brigade call me a liberal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 06:13:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 29, 2014, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 29, 2014, 05:09:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 05:31:41 AM

Smug. That's a great word to use to sum up the liberal PC brigade.
Glad you enjoy my posts. Maybe you'll see the light eventually.

I do enjoy your posts fella, keep em coming.

I have to say it is definitely the first time I have been called part of the liberal PC brigade. Loving it.

Is that the bright white light way over there on the right you're talking about?

This is the Fox News effect.

I am politically right of centre (with a touch of socialism regarding health and education, which I believe should be free for all). But what US politics calls the centre is so far to the right that anything else is deemed left, liberal etc. Many Democrats simply position themselves slightly left of the GOP, but by any definition are way, way right in their policies.

This site is great though. The Shinners have called me a Thatcherite, while the Fox News brigade call me a liberal.

I could call you something else  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 29, 2014, 06:17:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 06:13:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 29, 2014, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 29, 2014, 05:09:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 05:31:41 AM

Smug. That's a great word to use to sum up the liberal PC brigade.
Glad you enjoy my posts. Maybe you'll see the light eventually.

I do enjoy your posts fella, keep em coming.

I have to say it is definitely the first time I have been called part of the liberal PC brigade. Loving it.

Is that the bright white light way over there on the right you're talking about?

This is the Fox News effect.

I am politically right of centre (with a touch of socialism regarding health and education, which I believe should be free for all). But what US politics calls the centre is so far to the right that anything else is deemed left, liberal etc. Many Democrats simply position themselves slightly left of the GOP, but by any definition are way, way right in their policies.

This site is great though. The Shinners have called me a Thatcherite, while the Fox News brigade call me a liberal.

I could call you something else  ;)

You'd call Thatcher a liberal.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 29, 2014, 06:40:44 PM
More nonsense on this thread it seems!

Sharpton et all are siht stirring fcukers playing to the gallery if the posts I'm reading on Facebook with excerpts from sharptons interviews and articles are true

The guys posting these are NYPD correctional officers I'm related to/friendly with - and boy they aren't happy with Sharpton and the stuff being thrown at the cops on a daily basis but is being glossed over as a couple of them may have been trigger happy ( well one incident in three they might have been - looks like they were somewhat justified in the other two ).

Luckily the two officers gunned down in their car weren't trigger happy enough - so a good innocent gun man couldn't become another cause for outrage.

It's the trailer trash, rednecks and blacks that are being scrutinized must by cops as - surprise surprise - it's these people that most crime and violence emanates from.

I'm no Fox News lover and I'm usually anti us Republican Party - but some of you here are going ott on left and right wings.

I back the American cops here 100%

As kids we were not allowed to buy toy guns or have them in case seen at the wrong time by British army/ruc. Common sense stuff. Shouldn't have had to be like that, but that's the way things were.
It's prob as much lacking in cop on/ common sense by the people as bad parenting.

Cops and citizens in general are allowed to shoot first if they think they are in danger - and usually this plea works in us courts.
So 'DONT give them the f**king opportunity'

Is it right - prob not. Is it the sensible way- abso-f**king-lutely

Wise up all of you. It's like a Fine Gael teachers day outing trivial points scoring game here.


The big news is if/when us give revokes the blockade on Cuba !
I believe that fantastic new pope ( pope francis) is the instigator here!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2014, 06:40:06 AM
So, Fox, what if I told you there was an American president who negotiated with the Russians and signed a treaty that eliminated an entire class of nuclear weapon, raised taxes, said there was no need for a private citizen to own an AK-47, said that climate change was a critical concern, negotiated with terrorists and traded arms for hostages, and on his watch there were deadly attacks on US embassies. He also signed numerous gun control laws when he was a state governor.

I bet you'd really hate that guy, wouldn't you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2014, 07:10:46 AM
The thing about the doctrine of porcine infallibility is that it can lead to cops getting away with murder, literally.

I don't buy into this hero-worship that they do in America. I never "support our troops" or thank people for serving in the military. They made a career choice and for all I know that random soldier in the airport could have been committing war crimes in Iraq, so there's no way I'm going to revere him because of the uniform he wears. Same goes for cops. The only cops I thank are the ones I deal with directly and they're being helpful. Even when they're writing speeding tickets for me I'll be polite and say thank you, as long as they're professional about it. But this idea that cops can do no wrong and they should be put up on a pedestal is very unhealthy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 30, 2014, 10:25:51 AM
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5564fc2a-48e1-11e4-9f63-00144feab7de.html

American Bridge says it has nearly 7,000 hours of footage in its archives from the 2014 election, which can be searched by audio.
As chilling as the notion might be for anyone entering public life in recent years, that all their utterances are permanently stored for opponents to discover the minutest inconsistencies in their positions, trackers have become embedded in US politics.
"The true value of American Bridge is not just this cycle or the next, but the one after that," said American Bridge. "When they are running for the House or the Senate or governor in two or four or six years, we have video records of all of their public statements, and every news, radio and TV interview."
Mr Miller's group is trying to match the Democrats, with a project to upload every utterance it can find of Hillary Clinton, the likely Democratic candidate for 2016, to use against her.
Mitt Romney, in his presidential bid, was partly undone by a gaffe, when he told wealthy donors that 47 per cent of American voters were "victims" with no sense of personal responsibility.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 30, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 29, 2014, 06:40:44 PM
More nonsense on this thread it seems!

Sharpton et all are siht stirring fcukers playing to the gallery if the posts I'm reading on Facebook with excerpts from sharptons interviews and articles are true

The guys posting these are NYPD correctional officers I'm related to/friendly with - and boy they aren't happy with Sharpton and the stuff being thrown at the cops on a daily basis but is being glossed over as a couple of them may have been trigger happy ( well one incident in three they might have been - looks like they were somewhat justified in the other two ).

Luckily the two officers gunned down in their car weren't trigger happy enough - so a good innocent gun man couldn't become another cause for outrage.

It's the trailer trash, rednecks and blacks that are being scrutinized must by cops as - surprise surprise - it's these people that most crime and violence emanates from.

I'm no Fox News lover and I'm usually anti us Republican Party - but some of you here are going ott on left and right wings.

I back the American cops here 100%

As kids we were not allowed to buy toy guns or have them in case seen at the wrong time by British army/ruc. Common sense stuff. Shouldn't have had to be like that, but that's the way things were.
It's prob as much lacking in cop on/ common sense by the people as bad parenting.

Cops and citizens in general are allowed to shoot first if they think they are in danger - and usually this plea works in us courts.
So 'DONT give them the f**king opportunity'

Is it right - prob not. Is it the sensible way- abso-f**king-lutely

Wise up all of you. It's like a Fine Gael teachers day outing trivial points scoring game here.


The big news is if/when us give revokes the blockade on Cuba !
I believe that fantastic new pope ( pope francis) is the instigator here!!

Really? Even in the Eric Garner case?

And you think it is ok to shoot 12 year olds?

And as for the US courts, none of these cases made it to court. That is the problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 30, 2014, 07:42:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 30, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
Really? Even in the Eric Garner case?

Asthma, heart disease, and obesity were cited as contributing factors in his death. He was resisting arrest at the time which created the situation with the police.

But some folk think a blind eye should have been turned to his illegal activities.

Does any police officer think they'll kill a guy by restraining them? No. If they had tasered him the police would have been accused of needless brutality. You can't win.

Maybe the cops can politely ask all criminals to present themselves at their local station as to stop any more incidents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 30, 2014, 09:58:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 30, 2014, 07:42:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 30, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
Really? Even in the Eric Garner case?

Asthma, heart disease, and obesity were cited as contributing factors in his death. He was resisting arrest at the time which created the situation with the police.

But some folk think a blind eye should have been turned to his illegal activities.

Does any police officer think they'll kill a guy by restraining them? No. If they had tasered him the police would have been accused of needless brutality. You can't win.

Maybe the cops can politely ask all criminals to present themselves at their local station as to stop any more incidents.

Have you actually watched the video?

The illegal activities were selling loose smokes. Well worth putting someone in a chokehold and pressing his head into the pavement for, huh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 30, 2014, 11:49:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 30, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 29, 2014, 06:40:44 PM
More nonsense on this thread it seems!

Sharpton et all are siht stirring fcukers playing to the gallery if the posts I'm reading on Facebook with excerpts from sharptons interviews and articles are true

The guys posting these are NYPD correctional officers I'm related to/friendly with - and boy they aren't happy with Sharpton and the stuff being thrown at the cops on a daily basis but is being glossed over as a couple of them may have been trigger happy ( well one incident in three they might have been - looks like they were somewhat justified in the other two ).

Luckily the two officers gunned down in their car weren't trigger happy enough - so a good innocent gun man couldn't become another cause for outrage.

It's the trailer trash, rednecks and blacks that are being scrutinized must by cops as - surprise surprise - it's these people that most crime and violence emanates from.

I'm no Fox News lover and I'm usually anti us Republican Party - but some of you here are going ott on left and right wings.

I back the American cops here 100%

As kids we were not allowed to buy toy guns or have them in case seen at the wrong time by British army/ruc. Common sense stuff. Shouldn't have had to be like that, but that's the way things were.
It's prob as much lacking in cop on/ common sense by the people as bad parenting.

Cops and citizens in general are allowed to shoot first if they think they are in danger - and usually this plea works in us courts.
So 'DONT give them the f**king opportunity'

Is it right - prob not. Is it the sensible way- abso-f**king-lutely

Wise up all of you. It's like a Fine Gael teachers day outing trivial points scoring game here.


The big news is if/when us give revokes the blockade on Cuba !
I believe that fantastic new pope ( pope francis) is the instigator here!!

Really? Even in the Eric Garner case?

And you think it is ok to shoot 12 year olds?

And as for the US courts, none of these cases made it to court. That is the problem.
I don't like anyone being shot but if someone puts themselves into a questionable situation then the worst can happen.
As I said, as small kids in the six counties you knew how to and how not to behave around British army or ruc/udr etc

Maybe the courts are being kept free of certain cases?
I know there are way too many cases in Ireland that waste the courts time ( and taxpayers money)
Maybe the yanks think these cases are cut and dried slam dunks ?
Don't know.

J70- if our cops went a bit harder like that on some of our younger hoodlums I'd be delighted!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 03:56:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 30, 2014, 09:58:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 30, 2014, 07:42:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 30, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
Really? Even in the Eric Garner case?

Asthma, heart disease, and obesity were cited as contributing factors in his death. He was resisting arrest at the time which created the situation with the police.

But some folk think a blind eye should have been turned to his illegal activities.

Does any police officer think they'll kill a guy by restraining them? No. If they had tasered him the police would have been accused of needless brutality. You can't win.

Maybe the cops can politely ask all criminals to present themselves at their local station as to stop any more incidents.

Have you actually watched the video?

The illegal activities were selling loose smokes. Well worth putting someone in a chokehold and pressing his head into the pavement for, huh?

The word is illegal.

Was he breaking the law? Yes or no?
Did he resist arrest? Yes or no?

It is sad that he had to die in these circumstances.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 31, 2014, 03:58:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 30, 2014, 11:49:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 30, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 29, 2014, 06:40:44 PM
More nonsense on this thread it seems!

Sharpton et all are siht stirring fcukers playing to the gallery if the posts I'm reading on Facebook with excerpts from sharptons interviews and articles are true

The guys posting these are NYPD correctional officers I'm related to/friendly with - and boy they aren't happy with Sharpton and the stuff being thrown at the cops on a daily basis but is being glossed over as a couple of them may have been trigger happy ( well one incident in three they might have been - looks like they were somewhat justified in the other two ).

Luckily the two officers gunned down in their car weren't trigger happy enough - so a good innocent gun man couldn't become another cause for outrage.

It's the trailer trash, rednecks and blacks that are being scrutinized must by cops as - surprise surprise - it's these people that most crime and violence emanates from.

I'm no Fox News lover and I'm usually anti us Republican Party - but some of you here are going ott on left and right wings.

I back the American cops here 100%

As kids we were not allowed to buy toy guns or have them in case seen at the wrong time by British army/ruc. Common sense stuff. Shouldn't have had to be like that, but that's the way things were.
It's prob as much lacking in cop on/ common sense by the people as bad parenting.

Cops and citizens in general are allowed to shoot first if they think they are in danger - and usually this plea works in us courts.
So 'DONT give them the f**king opportunity'

Is it right - prob not. Is it the sensible way- abso-f**king-lutely

Wise up all of you. It's like a Fine Gael teachers day outing trivial points scoring game here.


The big news is if/when us give revokes the blockade on Cuba !
I believe that fantastic new pope ( pope francis) is the instigator here!!

Really? Even in the Eric Garner case?

And you think it is ok to shoot 12 year olds?

And as for the US courts, none of these cases made it to court. That is the problem.
I don't like anyone being shot but if someone puts themselves into a questionable situation then the worst can happen.
As I said, as small kids in the six counties you knew how to and how not to behave around British army or ruc/udr etc

Maybe the courts are being kept free of certain cases?
I know there are way too many cases in Ireland that waste the courts time ( and taxpayers money)
Maybe the yanks think these cases are cut and dried slam dunks ?
Don't know.

J70- if our cops went a bit harder like that on some of our younger hoodlums I'd be delighted!!

The issue with the cops not making it to court is that they are being investigated by colleagues in District Attorney departments who extend every courtesy and bend over backwards to avoid indicting them. If it was me or you, there probably wouldn't even be a grand jury in some of these cases; we would be charged, arrested and off to trial.

You would seriously like to see lads doing the equivalent of selling smokes treated like Eric Garner?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 03:56:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 30, 2014, 09:58:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 30, 2014, 07:42:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 30, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
Really? Even in the Eric Garner case?

Asthma, heart disease, and obesity were cited as contributing factors in his death. He was resisting arrest at the time which created the situation with the police.

But some folk think a blind eye should have been turned to his illegal activities.

Does any police officer think they'll kill a guy by restraining them? No. If they had tasered him the police would have been accused of needless brutality. You can't win.

Maybe the cops can politely ask all criminals to present themselves at their local station as to stop any more incidents.

Have you actually watched the video?

The illegal activities were selling loose smokes. Well worth putting someone in a chokehold and pressing his head into the pavement for, huh?

The word is illegal.

Was he breaking the law? Yes or no?
Did he resist arrest? Yes or no?

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 05:56:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 03:56:19 AM
The word is illegal.

Was he breaking the law? Yes or no?
Did he resist arrest? Yes or no?

It is sad that he had to die in these circumstances.

Had to die, eh? Quite right. Should have thought about that before selling loose cigarettes. (Christ! Is that an offence?) Nothing else for it but summary execution. Sure killing these boys on sight will keep the courts cleared of inconvenient trials and this "due process" charade.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:13:30 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 05:56:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 03:56:19 AM
The word is illegal.

Was he breaking the law? Yes or no?
Did he resist arrest? Yes or no?

It is sad that he had to die in these circumstances.

Had to die, eh? Quite right. Should have thought about that before selling loose cigarettes. (Christ! Is that an offence?) Nothing else for it but summary execution. Sure killing these boys on sight will keep the courts cleared of inconvenient trials and this "due process" charade.

Not what I said but go ahead and twist my words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 06:15:59 AM
It was hardly a hanging offence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.

You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.

You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

What would you suggest as a deterrent?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.

You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

What would you suggest as a deterrent?

I dunno.

Maybe a court system, based on innocent until proven guilty or something like that. You'd hardly go for it though.

For serial re-offenders I'd have no problem with a number of strikes and you are out type system. I.E 3 (or whatever) major crimes and you stay in jail. But only administered through the courts and none of this crazy justice administered on the streets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 07:05:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.

You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

What would you suggest as a deterrent?

I dunno.

Maybe a court system, based on innocent until proven guilty or something like that. You'd hardly go for it though.

For serial re-offenders I'd have no problem with a number of strikes and you are out type system. I.E 3 (or whatever) major crimes and you stay in jail. But only administered through the courts and none of this crazy justice administered on the streets.

You're right, I wouldn't go for it.Courts take too long and expensive, especially for the minor items.

But the number of strikes could work if administered correctly but i'm sure there will be those who would try circumvent this also.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 31, 2014, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 07:05:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.

You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

What would you suggest as a deterrent?

I dunno.

Maybe a court system, based on innocent until proven guilty or something like that. You'd hardly go for it though.

For serial re-offenders I'd have no problem with a number of strikes and you are out type system. I.E 3 (or whatever) major crimes and you stay in jail. But only administered through the courts and none of this crazy justice administered on the streets.

You're right, I wouldn't go for it.Courts take too long and expensive, especially for the minor items.

But the number of strikes could work if administered correctly but i'm sure there will be those who would try circumvent this also.

Have you ever thought of running for office?

You would get lots of vote, maybe under a shoot the homeless banner or something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 07:14:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 07:05:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.

You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

What would you suggest as a deterrent?

I dunno.

Maybe a court system, based on innocent until proven guilty or something like that. You'd hardly go for it though.

For serial re-offenders I'd have no problem with a number of strikes and you are out type system. I.E 3 (or whatever) major crimes and you stay in jail. But only administered through the courts and none of this crazy justice administered on the streets.

You're right, I wouldn't go for it.Courts take too long and expensive, especially for the minor items.

But the number of strikes could work if administered correctly but i'm sure there will be those who would try circumvent this also.

Have you ever thought of running for office?

You would get lots of vote, maybe under a shoot the homeless banner or something.

You know, that isn't such a bad idea....
Next GE might be a bit too soon though.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 07:56:01 PM
Conservatives love running for office while promising simple solutions to complex problems.

Problems in North Korea? Bomb it.
Iran developing nuclear weapons? Bomb them.
Iraq doing ... something or other? Invade it.
Libya in civil war? Bomb it. Oh, Barry Obama's already doing that? Well then invade it.
Bit of trouble in Palestine? Bomb it.
People committing murder? Kill them.
People committing robbery? Lock em up and throw away the key.
People selling loose cigarettes? Zero tolerance policing.
Energy problems? Drill for more oil.

I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Comparing American cops to English cops reminds me of the difference between two types of teacher I had in school. One was the older type who didn't have the latest teacher training and who relied on corporal punishment to maintain order, and often couldn't teach to save their lives. The other was the younger type who did have the latest training, and could keep a class under control through communication and not having to lift a finger to hit anyone. It doesn't take a genius to know which was the more competent.

This brings me to another conservative trope, the idea that the only option for police is to use overwhelming deadly force. The idea that less deadly alternatives might exist does not seem to enter the conservative head. They think the only alternative to shooting criminals is to let them get away with it scot free. Always with them it's all or nothing. Conservatives are not very bright. They're not capable of understanding anything even remotely complex. Why they're allowed to vote, or even breed for that matter, is beyond me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on December 31, 2014, 08:30:18 PM
Late entry for Dumbest Post of the Year or posting while Drunk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on December 31, 2014, 08:49:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 07:56:01 PM
Conservatives love running for office while promising simple solutions to complex problems.

Problems in North Korea? Bomb it.
Iran developing nuclear weapons? Bomb them.
Iraq doing ... something or other? Invade it.
Libya in civil war? Bomb it. Oh, Barry Obama's already doing that? Well then invade it.
Bit of trouble in Palestine? Bomb it.
People committing murder? Kill them.
People committing robbery? Lock em up and throw away the key.
People selling loose cigarettes? Zero tolerance policing.
Energy problems? Drill for more oil.

I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Comparing American cops to English cops reminds me of the difference between two types of teacher I had in school. One was the older type who didn't have the latest teacher training and who relied on corporal punishment to maintain order, and often couldn't teach to save their lives. The other was the younger type who did have the latest training, and could keep a class under control through communication and not having to lift a finger to hit anyone. It doesn't take a genius to know which was the more competent.

This brings me to another conservative trope, the idea that the only option for police is to use overwhelming deadly force. The idea that less deadly alternatives might exist does not seem to enter the conservative head. They think the only alternative to shooting criminals is to let them get away with it scot free. Always with them it's all or nothing. Conservatives are not very bright. They're not capable of understanding anything even remotely complex. Why they're allowed to vote, or even breed for that matter, is beyond me.

Eamonn you were doin a great job and I was almost in complete agreement with you until you came out with that. Why do you want to undermine your argument with coming out with rubbish like that?

Much as I loathe the right of American politics, since I found been here I have found the attitude of left quite abrasive and arrogant....very off putting.

By the way on another point why is the right called conservative in this country when they are anything but? I thought Conservative meant  being sensible?

All in all the problem with American politics and society in general is that it is all based on what is best for the individual not what is best for the greater community, country, or society.
If you talk to old people here they say things like "People need to be more patriotic" which to younger people sounds like "support our troops" or "protect our freedom". But if you delve a little deeper they are talking more about doing more with less questioning what's in it for me, looking out for your neighbour etc etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 08:56:21 PM
I just like to give conservatives a little taste of their own medicine once in a while. They use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse, so I occasionally do likewise with the word "conservative" just to show them how stupid it is. 

What I wrote above is tame compared to what is said on AM talk radio or on Fox News any given minute, and especially compared to the cesspit of conservative online newspaper comments. They don't like it up them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 31, 2014, 08:57:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 07:14:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 07:05:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.

You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

What would you suggest as a deterrent?

I dunno.

Maybe a court system, based on innocent until proven guilty or something like that. You'd hardly go for it though.

For serial re-offenders I'd have no problem with a number of strikes and you are out type system. I.E 3 (or whatever) major crimes and you stay in jail. But only administered through the courts and none of this crazy justice administered on the streets.

You're right, I wouldn't go for it.Courts take too long and expensive, especially for the minor items.

But the number of strikes could work if administered correctly but i'm sure there will be those who would try circumvent this also.

Have you ever thought of running for office?

You would get lots of vote, maybe under a shoot the homeless banner or something.

You know, that isn't such a bad idea....
Next GE might be a bit too soon though.

Not a bit of it, even though many of the US homeless are ex-servicemen from Afghanistan & Iraq, you would clean up with the religious right vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 09:00:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 08:57:34 PM
Not a bit of it, even though many of the US homeless are ex-servicemen from Afghanistan & Iraq, you would clean up with the religious right vote.

...and not one single person with dark skin will vote for him. Which is why the GOP is on its way to the electoral wilderness for a generation until they get their FW DeClerk figure to wake them up and tell them you can't go around demonizing half the population and then expect to get elected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:34:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 09:00:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 31, 2014, 08:57:34 PM
Not a bit of it, even though many of the US homeless are ex-servicemen from Afghanistan & Iraq, you would clean up with the religious right vote.

...and not one single person with dark skin will vote for him. Which is why the GOP is on its way to the electoral wilderness for a generation until they get their FW DeClerk figure to wake them up and tell them you can't go around demonizing half the population and then expect to get elected.

LOL...believe what you want......

If what you say is true, care to explain what happened in the 2014 midterms and gubernatorial races?

The term Democratic wipeout springs to mind!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:42:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 07:56:01 PM
Conservatives love running for office while promising simple solutions to complex problems.

Problems in North Korea? Bomb it.
Iran developing nuclear weapons? Bomb them.
Iraq doing ... something or other? Invade it.
Libya in civil war? Bomb it. Oh, Barry Obama's already doing that? Well then invade it.
Bit of trouble in Palestine? Bomb it.
People committing murder? Kill them.
People committing robbery? Lock em up and throw away the key.
People selling loose cigarettes? Zero tolerance policing.
Energy problems? Drill for more oil.

I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Comparing American cops to English cops reminds me of the difference between two types of teacher I had in school. One was the older type who didn't have the latest teacher training and who relied on corporal punishment to maintain order, and often couldn't teach to save their lives. The other was the younger type who did have the latest training, and could keep a class under control through communication and not having to lift a finger to hit anyone. It doesn't take a genius to know which was the more competent.

This brings me to another conservative trope, the idea that the only option for police is to use overwhelming deadly force. The idea that less deadly alternatives might exist does not seem to enter the conservative head. They think the only alternative to shooting criminals is to let them get away with it scot free. Always with them it's all or nothing. Conservatives are not very bright. They're not capable of understanding anything even remotely complex. Why they're allowed to vote, or even breed for that matter, is beyond me.

LOL x2.....lots of generalizations here. Yes there are some very stupid conservatives......and an equal number of stupid liberal voters....Q the Obamaphone lady.....

Garner was almost 30 fvckin stone....with all types of health issues....did you want the cops to take his blood pressure and give him a physical before arresting him.....A guy i might add, who had already been arrested 30 times. Did the cops know that.....I dont know......but my guess is they knew him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on December 31, 2014, 11:46:35 PM
Anyone who can defend the cops who killed (murdered) Garner is impossible to understand. Completely indefensible imo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:56:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:18:51 PM
http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/


YAWWWWWNNNNN........

Finally. An far right-wing blog was the source, not a newspaper as you originally claimed.

Interesting site that. It got website of the week on http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505 (http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505) no less.

But if you blow up the picture you can see the types of homicide, including 'police homicide'. The ones with the black dots are police homicides.

Saying no one has mentioned the other murders last week is nothing more than a straw man argument and is irrelevant to the debate. It would be the same as me saying 'not pointing at all the other police homicides proves we are not cop haters'. Each case is unique and must be assessed individually, which is what an investigation and a court case would de, if they were allowed to happen.

But it is very obvious that those saying it is ok to shoot unarmed black men have to base their arguments gimmicks such as faux outrage at the lack of outrage regarding some other outrage. No one is fooled by this stuff.

Hi Muppett...first of all Happy New Year...all the best to you and yours

As were coming close to the end of the month I have some updated stats for you.....I hope the source is to your liking..... http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2014/12/

Maybe your pal Rev Al can organize a protest March........oh wait.......hes currently under investigation for owing the IRS $4M......we need those 1 percenters to pay their fair share and all that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 01, 2015, 03:39:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 07:56:01 PM
I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Just in case you've forgotten - guns are not widely available to the English public for purchase.
The likelihood of English blokes going out at night and taking a weapon with them is a hell of a lot lower than in the States thus reducing the risk of shootouts. The general hostile attitude towards the police doesn't help these situations.

But don't let that stop your theory ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 05:46:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:34:15 PM
LOL...believe what you want......

If what you say is true, care to explain what happened in the 2014 midterms and gubernatorial races?

The term Democratic wipeout springs to mind!

Only too happy to oblige. Democratic voters tend to not vote in big numbers in midterm elections. It'll be a different story in 2016.

The term Republican wipeout springs to mind!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 05:47:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:42:07 PM
LOL x2.....lots of generalizations here. Yes there are some very stupid conservatives......and an equal number of stupid liberal voters....Q the Obamaphone lady.....

Garner was almost 30 fvckin stone....with all types of health issues....did you want the cops to take his blood pressure and give him a physical before arresting him.....A guy i might add, who had already been arrested 30 times. Did the cops know that.....I dont know......but my guess is they knew him.

If he was arrested 30 times I have to assume that they did it without killing him stone dead on each occasion. Kinda undermines the "we had no choice but to kill him" defence, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 05:53:54 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 01, 2015, 03:39:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 31, 2014, 07:56:01 PM
I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Just in case you've forgotten - guns are not widely available to the English public for purchase.
The likelihood of English blokes going out at night and taking a weapon with them is a hell of a lot lower than in the States thus reducing the risk of shootouts. The general hostile attitude towards the police doesn't help these situations.

But don't let that stop your theory ;)

Oh I won't. Garmer wasn't armed. Was he? So it was quite possible to arrest him without killing him. As someone already stated, the cops had managed to perform this "impossible" feat thirty times previously.

But the biggest problem with American cops and their shoot-to-kill policy is the the racial aspect of it. A white man can reach into his pocket for his license and think nothing of it. A black man is taking his life in his hands if he does the same thing.

(http://otherwords.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/racism-goes-postal-cartoon-600x418.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 01, 2015, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 05:47:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:42:07 PM
LOL x2.....lots of generalizations here. Yes there are some very stupid conservatives......and an equal number of stupid liberal voters....Q the Obamaphone lady.....

Garner was almost 30 fvckin stone....with all types of health issues....did you want the cops to take his blood pressure and give him a physical before arresting him.....A guy i might add, who had already been arrested 30 times. Did the cops know that.....I dont know......but my guess is they knew him.

If he was arrested 30 times I have to assume that they did it without killing him stone dead on each occasion. Kinda undermines the "we had no choice but to kill him" defence, wouldn't you say?


Ehhhh.....maybe he didnt resist arrest on the other 30 occasions???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 01, 2015, 02:06:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 05:46:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:34:15 PM
LOL...believe what you want......

If what you say is true, care to explain what happened in the 2014 midterms and gubernatorial races?

The term Democratic wipeout springs to mind!

Only too happy to oblige. Democratic voters tend to not vote in big numbers in midterm elections. It'll be a different story in 2016.

The term Republican wipeout springs to mind!

Hmmm....true to an extent , but absolutely not the whole story

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/10/voter-turnout_n_6132548.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 01, 2015, 05:55:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 05:53:54 AM
But the biggest problem with American cops and their shoot-to-kill policy is the the racial aspect of it. A white man can reach into his pocket for his license and think nothing of it. A black man is taking his life in his hands if he does the same thing.

I call bullshit. It's how you act. Chris Rock wasn't far off the mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

Disappointing how you get hysterical and try turn this into a race issue. Same should apply across the board if you're breaking the law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 09:17:46 PM
So black people aren't subject to harsher treatment by cops than white people?

Spoken like a white man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 09:18:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 01:57:05 PM
Ehhhh.....maybe he didnt resist arrest on the other 30 occasions???

Ehhhh.... so if someone resists arrest then the only way to arrest them is to choke them to death?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 01, 2015, 09:44:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 09:17:46 PM
So black people aren't subject to harsher treatment by cops than white people?

Spoken like a white man.

no .....poor people are subject to harsher treatment by cops than wealthy people

Think someone from Finglas or Ballymun get the same treatment as someone from Foxrock???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 01, 2015, 09:55:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 09:18:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 01:57:05 PM
Ehhhh.....maybe he didnt resist arrest on the other 30 occasions???

Ehhhh.... so if someone resists arrest then the only way to arrest them is to choke them to death?


Supervising sergeant of the arrest was an African American female officer.

Maybe you should ask her!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 10:25:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 09:44:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 09:17:46 PM
So black people aren't subject to harsher treatment by cops than white people?

Spoken like a white man.

no .....poor people are subject to harsher treatment by cops than wealthy people

Think someone from Finglas or Ballymun get the same treatment as someone from Foxrock???

Right. And the civil war was about states' rights and not slavery at all. Honest, guv.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 01, 2015, 10:52:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 09:44:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 09:17:46 PM
So black people aren't subject to harsher treatment by cops than white people?

Spoken like a white man.

no .....poor people are subject to harsher treatment by cops than wealthy people

Think someone from Finglas or Ballymun get the same treatment as someone from Foxrock???
Ferguson has lower than expected tax revenues due to ongoing US deflation and bridges the gap via traffic fines. 2.6 million in 2014 and most are imposed without justification on non whites according to the FT.
The US is a mess. God bless it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 02, 2015, 12:23:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 01, 2015, 10:52:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 09:44:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 09:17:46 PM
So black people aren't subject to harsher treatment by cops than white people?

Spoken like a white man.

no .....poor people are subject to harsher treatment by cops than wealthy people

Think someone from Finglas or Ballymun get the same treatment as someone from Foxrock???
Ferguson has lower than expected tax revenues due to ongoing US deflation and bridges the gap via traffic fines. 2.6 million in 2014 and most are imposed without justification on non whites according to the FT.
The US is a mess. God bless it.

Thanks for posting that

A town with 67% African American population elects a white mayor in an election where only 12% of the population bothers to vote. Maybe were getting close to the root of the issue
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 02, 2015, 01:04:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:56:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 28, 2014, 12:18:51 PM
http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/


YAWWWWWNNNNN........

Finally. An far right-wing blog was the source, not a newspaper as you originally claimed.

Interesting site that. It got website of the week on http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505 (http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505) no less.

But if you blow up the picture you can see the types of homicide, including 'police homicide'. The ones with the black dots are police homicides.

Saying no one has mentioned the other murders last week is nothing more than a straw man argument and is irrelevant to the debate. It would be the same as me saying 'not pointing at all the other police homicides proves we are not cop haters'. Each case is unique and must be assessed individually, which is what an investigation and a court case would de, if they were allowed to happen.

But it is very obvious that those saying it is ok to shoot unarmed black men have to base their arguments gimmicks such as faux outrage at the lack of outrage regarding some other outrage. No one is fooled by this stuff.

Hi Muppett...first of all Happy New Year...all the best to you and yours

As were coming close to the end of the month I have some updated stats for you.....I hope the source is to your liking..... http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2014/12/

Maybe your pal Rev Al can organize a protest March........oh wait.......hes currently under investigation for owing the IRS $4M......we need those 1 percenters to pay their fair share and all that

Yes, er Happy New Year.

But why refer to 'Rev Al' as my pal? I have never quoted him in anything. I know little or nothing about him. Do you need him to be my friend to argue with me?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 02, 2015, 02:23:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:56:13 PM
Maybe your pal Rev Al can organize a protest March........oh wait.......hes currently under investigation for owing the IRS $4M......we need those 1 percenters to pay their fair share and all that

With the Garner family bringing a civil case of $70 million against the state you have to wonder why the Rev gets involved.
I'm sure there will be a case from the Brown family in the near future too.

If he gets a % it could solve a few issues for him financially. But surely he's not in this game for the money and power ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 02, 2015, 05:05:43 AM
Sitting with a beer reading foxcommander and whitey whilst watching the second bowl game. While the game is entertaining it has nothing on you two. Please keep your insight and revelations coming. I am learning soooooo much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 02, 2015, 05:22:50 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 02, 2015, 05:05:43 AM
Sitting with a beer reading foxcommander and whitey whilst watching the second bowl game. While the game is entertaining it has nothing on you two. Please keep your insight and revelations coming. I am learning soooooo much.

Glad to be of service  :)
Happy new year!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 02, 2015, 05:45:42 AM
Oh no no no.  Thank You!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 02, 2015, 03:55:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 02, 2015, 02:23:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 11:56:13 PM
Maybe your pal Rev Al can organize a protest March........oh wait.......hes currently under investigation for owing the IRS $4M......we need those 1 percenters to pay their fair share and all that

With the Garner family bringing a civil case of $70 million against the state you have to wonder why the Rev gets involved.
I'm sure there will be a case from the Brown family in the near future too.

If he gets a % it could solve a few issues for him financially. But surely he's not in this game for the money and power ;)

Wow. So it was a masterstroke by Garner to get money for his family and Whitey's pal, Sharpton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 02, 2015, 05:21:36 PM
Conservatives on foreign policy: "Something something something something something Benghazi."

Conservatives on health care reform: "Something something something something something something socialism."

Conservatives on race relations: "Something something something something something something Al Sharpton."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 02, 2015, 05:45:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 02, 2015, 05:05:43 AM
Sitting with a beer reading foxcommander and whitey whilst watching the second bowl game. While the game is entertaining it has nothing on you two. Please keep your insight and revelations coming. I am learning soooooo much.

To be fair heganboy i'm not sure i would trust anyone's opinion who thinks American football is entertaining.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 02, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Wish folks were as concerned about the ruc and their shoot to kill policy on innocent Irish/ Catholics/ Irish a number of years ago!
But I suppose it's ok as the ruc weren't racist!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:46:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 31, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.

I'm well aware of broken windows and zero tolerance theories, thanks.

I'm still not sure whether, from that particular article,  whitey was commenting for or against my statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 02, 2015, 09:04:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

again, why are you bringing skin colour into this? Is your problem with the police or are you trying to create a racial issue? Would you be making a fuss about this particular case if he was white? Would Al Sharpton?





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 02, 2015, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 02, 2015, 09:04:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

again, why are you bringing skin colour into this? Is your problem with the police or are you trying to create a racial issue? Would you be making a fuss about this particular case if he was white? Would Al Sharpton?

It there was a pattern of police killing unarmed white people, then of course people would be making an issue of it. Wouldn't you, as a white person, be concerned? Who was the last unarmed white male shot dead by a trigger happy cop when he stepped into a dark stairwell? Who was the last white man, shot while out shopping in Walmart, just because he was holding a BB gun he had just picked up off the shelf?

Al Sharpton is an advocate for his community, the community who are at higher risk of being killed in this manner. If the problem was white people being killed, I'm sure an advocate would come forward. The racial issue exists - no one is creating it. Society is suspicious of black males. They don't get the benefit of the doubt that the rest of us get, and that's including from cops.

You'd swear Sharpton was the big problem here, the way some of you boys seem fixated on him!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2015, 12:49:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 02, 2015, 09:04:48 PM
why are you bringing skin colour into this?

Guess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 03, 2015, 01:50:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 02, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Wish folks were as concerned about the ruc and their shoot to kill policy on innocent Irish/ Catholics/ Irish a number of years ago!
But I suppose it's ok as the ruc weren't racist!!

That's a very, very bizarre and, frankly, slightly grotesque, statement to make. Catch yourself on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 03, 2015, 01:58:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 02, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Wish folks were as concerned about the ruc and their shoot to kill policy

you don't think folks were concerned about police shoot to kill policies?
hmmm, interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 03, 2015, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:46:56 PM

I'm well aware of broken windows and zero tolerance theories, thanks.

I'm still not sure whether, from that particular article,  whitey was commenting for or against my statement.

neither is he, he may just googled broken window policing. The article actually questions the social and moral implications of such a policy, not whether it is effective, but no matter, he's very well read that Whitey fella!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2015, 02:58:39 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 03, 2015, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:46:56 PM

I'm well aware of broken windows and zero tolerance theories, thanks.

I'm still not sure whether, from that particular article,  whitey was commenting for or against my statement.

neither is he, he may just googled broken window policing. The article actually questions the social and moral implications of such a policy, not whether it is effective, but no matter, he's very well read that Whitey fella!

Thanks...well read, plus about 4 hours per day stuck in traffic listening to satellite radio (both sides I might add)

I put the article up as evidence that there can be 2 reasonable sides to an argument....not necessarily a right opinion and a wrong opinion...but that evidence is often incolclusive one way or the other and that often a case can be made for either outcome.

Personally I would read a Breitbart article and follow it up with a NY Times or a Huff Post article to get the opposing view, then Google some "fact" I read in either article to see if they're blowing smoke.

The best info, in my opinion can be gleaned from the comments that accompany the articles, as they are not subject to editorial censorship/bias Eg I didn't see anywhere in the main stream media that the supervising sergeant at the Garner arrest was an African American woman...I read that in a comment.....then I went back and googled it and read her account of events.

On an aside, I met a retired NYPD detective last year, who was attached to the Midtown South prescinct back in the 80's & 90's. (I think that's what he called it)  His beat included Times Sq and MSG. He gave me the entire lowdown (from a cops viewpoint)  as to how bad things were down there and how they were able to turn things around.

After speaking with him I took it upon myself to read about the opposite side of the argument...ir that of a person of color

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2015, 03:39:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?

But that is my point - knowing the victim, or not, is irrelevant when you are talking about the cop's motivation.

And of course any public advocacy of the cop by friends would have to be viewed skeptically. As would a statement by someone with a negative agenda towards him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:53:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 03:39:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?

But that is my point - knowing the victim, or not, is irrelevant when you are talking about the cop's motivation.

And of course any public advocacy of the cop by friends would have to be viewed skeptically. As would a statement by someone with a negative agenda towards him.

So then no ones opinion is worth any more than any one else's, as they are just that opinions??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 03, 2015, 05:10:49 AM
Quote from: gallsman on January 03, 2015, 01:50:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 02, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Wish folks were as concerned about the ruc and their shoot to kill policy on innocent Irish/ Catholics/ Irish a number of years ago!
But I suppose it's ok as the ruc weren't racist!!

That's a very, very bizarre and, frankly, slightly grotesque, statement to make. Catch yourself on.

If you're talking about people in the 26 counties I don't believe the majority gave a f*$k about what went on up in the north.

Take one example - If you look at the latest documents to be released under the 30 year rule there is evidence that the Gardaí were a lot more helpful towards their counterparts over the border than was thought, even bypassing government ministers (I wonder about that) to hand over information.

They couldn't give a monkeys...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2015, 06:20:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 02:58:39 AM
Personally I would read a Breitbart article and follow it up with a NY Times or a Huff Post article to get the opposing view, then Google some "fact" I read in either article to see if they're blowing smoke.

"I read Breitbart" is not something you want to put into your defense of your critical thinking skills.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2015, 12:17:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:53:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 03:39:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?

But that is my point - knowing the victim, or not, is irrelevant when you are talking about the cop's motivation.

And of course any public advocacy of the cop by friends would have to be viewed skeptically. As would a statement by someone with a negative agenda towards him.

So then no ones opinion is worth any more than any one else's, as they are just that opinions??

That is not what I said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2015, 01:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 12:17:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:53:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 03:39:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?

But that is my point - knowing the victim, or not, is irrelevant when you are talking about the cop's motivation.

And of course any public advocacy of the cop by friends would have to be viewed skeptically. As would a statement by someone with a negative agenda towards him.

So then no ones opinion is worth any more than any one else's, as they are just that opinions??

That is not what I said.

Rephrase your comment then please, because if that's not what you're saying, I havent a clue what you're on about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2015, 06:32:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 01:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 12:17:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:53:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 03:39:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2015, 03:04:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 01, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Yes. How dare I turn a race issue into a race issue.

keep em coming....the man's daughter, wife and mother ALL said it had nothing to do with race.

Here are some links with direct quotes if you need proof

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/04/eric-garners-daughter-on-her-fathers-death-this-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue/


http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/eric_garner_s_mom_death_wasn_t_about_race_it_was_a_thrill_kill.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/garners-widow-says-husband-was-targeted-illegally-/?page=all

With all due respect, how does Eric Garner's family know what Pantaleo's motivation was?

Regardless of his motivation,  yet another unarmed,  unthreatening black man is dead at the hands of cops.

LOL...you're kidding right?? 

If any group of people in the entire universe were uniquely qualified to give an educated opinion, it would be his immediate family members.

They obviously know Eric Garners personality....They obviously know of his prior arrests....They obviously know of his health issues...

What does any of that have to do with Pantaleo's actions? Little-man syndrome or racist, how can they know?

Pantaleo's family and friends and colleagues -  their honest opinion might be somewhat relevant.

So who's opioion would you value more....someone who knew the victim or someone who didn't know the victim?

And if Pantaleo's friends and colleagues came out and said that his actions weren't racist would you actually believe them?

But that is my point - knowing the victim, or not, is irrelevant when you are talking about the cop's motivation.

And of course any public advocacy of the cop by friends would have to be viewed skeptically. As would a statement by someone with a negative agenda towards him.

So then no ones opinion is worth any more than any one else's, as they are just that opinions??

That is not what I said.

Rephrase your comment then please, because if that's not what you're saying, I havent a clue what you're on about

Seriously?

I didn't make any generalized comment.  I addressed two specific types of comments concerning Pantaleo i.e.  from the victim's family and from people who know Pantaleo,  whether in a negative or positive way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 03, 2015, 06:58:28 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 03, 2015, 01:58:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 02, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Wish folks were as concerned about the ruc and their shoot to kill policy

you don't think folks were concerned about police shoot to kill policies?
hmmm, interesting.

Isn't this precisely the problem? Shoot to kill and the establishment will sweep up. This sort of policing is seriously counterproductive. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 03, 2015, 01:50:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 02, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Wish folks were as concerned about the ruc and their shoot to kill policy on innocent Irish/ Catholics/ Irish a number of years ago!
But I suppose it's ok as the ruc weren't racist!!

That's a very, very bizarre and, frankly, slightly grotesque, statement to make. Catch yourself on.
How so?
Maybe you catch yourself on!

Apart from ( some of) our own, there was no clamour from southern 26 counties let alone further
afield - I wish people had been as worried about the treatment of Irish/nationalist / catholic innocents up until 1994!!!

While dreadfully sad about a few men shot dead in the USA ( irrespective of whether guilty of a crime or not) it's remarkable how it's so earth shattering this all is to you all given the complete intransigence of practically everyone when it was happening on a wider and more frequent
Scale here pre 1994 !
The world turned a blind eye to it!

Yes I had relations who were victims of this.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:21:37 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 03, 2015, 01:58:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 02, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Wish folks were as concerned about the ruc and their shoot to kill policy

you don't think folks were concerned about police shoot to kill policies?
hmmm, interesting.
Well the world his it's concern rather well as did most of Ireland.

There was certainly fcuk all done about it apart from sweep it under the carpet - but I'm glad you found it interesting!

I think you are proving a bigger nugget to entertain us now!
I'm going for some Doritos now!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 03, 2015, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:21:37 PM


I think you are proving a bigger nugget to entertain us now!
I'm going for some Doritos now!!
Might not have had much attention where you grew up but in Armagh there were few doubted the policy and most behaved as if it were public policy. To muppet's point when the establishment tacitly approved this policy rule of law no longer holds sway and justice becomes a very fluid notion. People then tend to take matters into their own hands.
Not sure about your Doritos?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 10:27:06 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 03, 2015, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:21:37 PM


I think you are proving a bigger nugget to entertain us now!
I'm going for some Doritos now!!
Might not have had much attention where you grew up but in Armagh there were few doubted the policy and most behaved as if it were public policy. To muppet's point when the establishment tacitly approved this policy rule of law no longer holds sway and justice becomes a very fluid notion. People then tend to take matters into their own hands.
Not sure about your Doritos?
Munching on the Doritos enthralled at how you mistook Armagh for a cosmopolitan place outside of Ireland !!
So what was done about this shoot to kill policy and who came in to assist us natives ( not the foreign Armagh island)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 03:56:25 AM
So you're demanding to know why there wasn't international outrage about the shoot-to-kill policy in the north, because you don't think there can be outrage about shoot-to-kill policing in America, except among people in America, and the outrage about the northern thing is only allowed to come from some cosmopolitan place outside of Ireland, therefore northerners are exempt from being outraged about shoot-to-kill in the north because if they are they're being hypocrites for being outraged about shoot-to-kill in America, because if they can't find someone from outside Ireland who was outraged about shoot-to-kill in the north they can't be outraged about shoot to kill in America, because ...

(http://www.mtnuniversal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Whats-Going-On.001-480x360.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 04, 2015, 04:29:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 03:56:25 AM
So you're demanding to know why there wasn't international outrage about the shoot-to-kill policy in the north, because you don't think there can be outrage about shoot-to-kill policing in America, except among people in America, and the outrage about the northern thing is only allowed to come from some cosmopolitan place outside of Ireland, therefore northerners are exempt from being outraged about shoot-to-kill in the north because if they are they're being hypocrites for being outraged about shoot-to-kill in America, because if they can't find someone from outside Ireland who was outraged about shoot-to-kill in the north they can't be outraged about shoot to kill in America, because ...

(http://www.mtnuniversal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Whats-Going-On.001-480x360.jpg)

If you actually knew what you were talking about I might take you seriously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 05:38:01 AM
Exactly. I have absolutely no idea what's going on. I'm baffled by the arguments the "shoot first and ask questions later" crowd are putting forward.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 04, 2015, 08:28:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 03, 2015, 01:50:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 02, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Wish folks were as concerned about the ruc and their shoot to kill policy on innocent Irish/ Catholics/ Irish a number of years ago!
But I suppose it's ok as the ruc weren't racist!!

That's a very, very bizarre and, frankly, slightly grotesque, statement to make. Catch yourself on.
How so?
Maybe you catch yourself on!

Apart from ( some of) our own, there was no clamour from southern 26 counties let alone further
afield - I wish people had been as worried about the treatment of Irish/nationalist / catholic innocents up until 1994!!!

While dreadfully sad about a few men shot dead in the USA ( irrespective of whether guilty of a crime or not) it's remarkable how it's so earth shattering this all is to you all given the complete intransigence of practically everyone when it was happening on a wider and more frequent
Scale here pre 1994 !
The world turned a blind eye to it!

Yes I had relations who were victims of this.

It's disgraceful that you attempt to infer that by taking an interest in and a stance on the recent high profile cases of deaths of black teenagers at the hands of the police and the potential societal causes of this, contributors on this thread have somehow turned a blind eye to historical issues in the north.

The two discussions aren't mutually exclusive and your efforts to paint it as so is why you need to catch yourself on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 08:34:59 AM
Maybe we should knock up a standard disclaimer preamble along the lines of "I hearby condemn all other heretofore and comparable instances of the wrongdoing I hearinrafter condemn."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 03:56:25 AM
So you're demanding to know why there wasn't international outrage about the shoot-to-kill policy in the north, because you don't think there can be outrage about shoot-to-kill policing in America, except among people in America, and the outrage about the northern thing is only allowed to come from some cosmopolitan place outside of Ireland, therefore northerners are exempt from being outraged about shoot-to-kill in the north because if they are they're being hypocrites for being outraged about shoot-to-kill in America, because if they can't find someone from outside Ireland who was outraged about shoot-to-kill in the north they can't be outraged about shoot to kill in America, because ...

(http://www.mtnuniversal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Whats-Going-On.001-480x360.jpg)
You are missing the point completely in your rush to try and find fault!

I'm saying
That
It's a pity there wasn't the same interest at our more widespread plight on more innocents at the time!

I know this isn't the same kind of thing as the victims of shootings here are not all innocents - but it's just a pity there wasn't such an outcry for us. The world ignored it.

I'd hope people in USA are not killed, unless of course the cop was in mortal danger. Even then it's regrettable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 11:52:29 AM
Quote from: gallsman on January 04, 2015, 08:28:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 03, 2015, 01:50:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 02, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Wish folks were as concerned about the ruc and their shoot to kill policy on innocent Irish/ Catholics/ Irish a number of years ago!
But I suppose it's ok as the ruc weren't racist!!

That's a very, very bizarre and, frankly, slightly grotesque, statement to make. Catch yourself on.
How so?
Maybe you catch yourself on!

Apart from ( some of) our own, there was no clamour from southern 26 counties let alone further
afield - I wish people had been as worried about the treatment of Irish/nationalist / catholic innocents up until 1994!!!

While dreadfully sad about a few men shot dead in the USA ( irrespective of whether guilty of a crime or not) it's remarkable how it's so earth shattering this all is to you all given the complete intransigence of practically everyone when it was happening on a wider and more frequent
Scale here pre 1994 !
The world turned a blind eye to it!

Yes I had relations who were victims of this.

It's disgraceful that you attempt to infer that by taking an interest in and a stance on the recent high profile cases of deaths of black teenagers at the hands of the police and the potential societal causes of this, contributors on this thread have somehow turned a blind eye to historical issues in the north.

The two discussions aren't mutually exclusive and your efforts to paint it as so is why you need to catch yourself on.
Oh cop on with your mock outrage you big girl

In fact if you took the time to read what I wrote you might find I said the opposite- that I wished we received the same coverage and international outcry as a few victims in the USA - when our plight was institutionalized policy from the ruc and establishment forces.

It seems to be you making the 'two discussions mutually exclusive ' not me!

How you derive that from ' I wish we had the same coverage etc' is testament to your skills of incomprehension !
So stop whinging for nothing you moaning Minnie and cop on!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 04, 2015, 12:33:03 PM
It wasn't outrage, more dismissal.

Interrupting a discussion about perceived racial profiling by American police forces - what a curious way to make your point (ironically, in doing so all you've managed to do is dilute it) on the shoot to kill policy in the north.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 02:17:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 04, 2015, 12:33:03 PM
It wasn't outrage, more dismissal.

Interrupting a discussion about perceived racial profiling by American police forces - what a curious way to make your point (ironically, in doing so all you've managed to do is dilute it) on the shoot to kill policy in the north.
Yes dismissal
'Disgusting' etc .....
::)
At least be consistent !!

God help us - that we have the discussion police telling us we can or can't make comments or have opinions on a 'discussion board'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 04:41:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 05:38:01 AM
Exactly. I have absolutely no idea what's going on. I'm baffled by the arguments the "shoot first and ask questions later" crowd are putting forward.

Might be better to leave it alone then....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 05, 2015, 05:25:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 04:41:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 05:38:01 AM
Exactly. I have absolutely no idea what's going on. I'm baffled by the arguments the "shoot first and ask questions later" crowd are putting forward.

Might be better to leave it alone then....

Hasn't really stopped you before now, has it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 05:33:37 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 05, 2015, 05:25:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 04:41:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 05:38:01 AM
Exactly. I have absolutely no idea what's going on. I'm baffled by the arguments the "shoot first and ask questions later" crowd are putting forward.

Might be better to leave it alone then....

Hasn't really stopped you before now, has it?

oh good one!! touché !
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2015, 12:58:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.

I'm not too worried...the police can take care of the conflict :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
and who is trying to create a conflict? Targeting establishments due to their clientele isn't meant to be provocative or threatening?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 05, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
and who is trying to create a conflict? Targeting establishments due to their clientele isn't meant to be provocative or threatening?

We know.

Shoot them all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:07:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
and who is trying to create a conflict? Targeting establishments due to their clientele isn't meant to be provocative or threatening?

We know.

Shoot them all.

Maybe your Uncle Al could get one of his supporters to burn the place down if they don't stop eating their bagels and cream cheese

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/01/ferguson-arsonist-spoke-at-al-sharptons-national-action-network-rally-in-dc-video/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 05, 2015, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:07:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
and who is trying to create a conflict? Targeting establishments due to their clientele isn't meant to be provocative or threatening?

We know.

Shoot them all.

Maybe your Uncle Al could get one of his supporters to burn the place down if they don't stop eating their bagels and cream cheese

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/01/ferguson-arsonist-spoke-at-al-sharptons-national-action-network-rally-in-dc-video/

And Whitey brings up his hero Al again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2015, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:07:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
and who is trying to create a conflict? Targeting establishments due to their clientele isn't meant to be provocative or threatening?

We know.

Shoot them all.

Maybe your Uncle Al could get one of his supporters to burn the place down if they don't stop eating their bagels and cream cheese

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/01/ferguson-arsonist-spoke-at-al-sharptons-national-action-network-rally-in-dc-video/

And Whitey brings up his hero Al again.

Go back and read the thread....if I'm not mistaken YOU are the first person to mention him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 05, 2015, 11:25:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:07:53 PM
Maybe your Uncle Al could get one of his supporters to burn the place down if they don't stop eating their bagels and cream cheese

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/01/ferguson-arsonist-spoke-at-al-sharptons-national-action-network-rally-in-dc-video/

And Whitey brings up his hero Al again.

Go back and read the thread....if I'm not mistaken YOU are the first person to mention him

You are mistaken.

Al Sharpton is only used on this thread recently by those looking for a straw man argument to justify the shooting of unarmed black men or children. It is standard Fox News style to pick an extreme angle and pretend that everyone who doesn't agree with your view subscribes to that extreme view.

The daft logic is a bit like this:

Fox News: So Mr. XXXX they have rock solid evidence of you killing Y, Y & Y. They are seeking the death penalty.
Spokesman Whitey: Al Sharpton.
Fox News: Whitey you are a great man and your client is a victim of a miscarriage of justice.

Foxcommander, Stew & Maigheo are the first three to mention Sharpton as far as I can see with a quick search. Stew also mentioned him in 2009.

See for yourself:

Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 03:40:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 26, 2014, 03:16:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 26, 2014, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2014, 02:19:59 PM
I thought the police officer was punched a couple of times according to the evidence.  One thing I have learned from my visits to the states is that you don't mess about with the cops.

#ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ThingsMoreHurtThanDarrenWilson?src=hash)

If Michael Brown had been behaving himself he'd still be alive. His death is being used by others to further their agenda and stoke tension. If a black police officer had shot him do you think there would be the same outcry and nationwide protests?

It wasn't though a black police officer . . . your first point has a little but of validity but the second point is just whataboutery!

In fairness your first point is ridiculous as well. 'Not behaving yourself' is not punishable by death!

Not behaving yourself isn't punishable by death. It's regrettable that it happened in the first place. The officer involved may have been too inexperienced to handle the situation on his own and made a huge mistake in judgement. 76 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in 2013 according to the FBI.

As for the 'whataboutery' - there are multiple murders and deaths in the states on a daily basis yet this is the one that makes the headlines. Only difference here is that the ethnicity of the people involved to suggest that this was a hate crime.
Ditto the Trayvon Martin case, in that instance George Zimmerman wasn't a police officer but there was Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson stoking up tension. There's a market for hatred and serious money to be made.

here:

Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

and here:

Quote from: stew on November 27, 2014, 03:38:55 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 27, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 27, 2014, 12:43:20 AM
Hard to believe the policeman can have a "clean conscience" after shooting dead an unarmed teenager, shows how much he values another man's life
Did you see the full interview with the police officer?The "clear conscience" comment is strictly in relation to the confrontation and shooting of Mike Brown and nothing to do with how much he values another mans life.He says later on in the interview that he feels a lot of remorse about Browns death but of course that would not suit the narrative of the police officer being the bad guy.And as for the prosecutor being like a defense lawyer for the police officer,what a load of rubbish.He gave the grand jury every piece of evidence in the case and let them decide and this is rarely the case when grand jurys are convened.Every body wants justice but the only justice in this case for a lot of people would be for the officer to convicted of first degree murder regardless of the facts

I thought the prosecutor played a blinder given the hand he was dealt, he gave the evidence and ONLY the evidence and let the grand Jury decide, the man was in a no win situation and he did what he thought best and he made the best decisions he could based on the facts he had to work with!

That aul bastid Sharpton is a twisted, vile piece of shite, a pub hound if ever there was one!!!

Notice how anyone with an opinion different to the lads above are all accused to have been listening to Al Sharpton. Is this the US version of Godwin's Law? It certainly seems so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2015, 11:32:28 PM
You're right....I had time to go back and check it was J70 who brought him up in the current discussion

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 05, 2015, 11:39:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 11:32:28 PM
You're right....I had time to go back and check it was J70 who brought him up in the current discussion

On everything?

Fair play, wasn't expecting that.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2015, 01:21:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
and who is trying to create a conflict? Targeting establishments due to their clientele isn't meant to be provocative or threatening?

We know.

Shoot them all.

Your reaction shows you have no response.

If these protesters beef is with the police then why have they targeted a section of the community instead. Or are all these protests just a farce? Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 11:32:28 PM
You're right....I had time to go back and check it was J70 who brought him up in the current discussion

I did??

No recollection of that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 06, 2015, 03:33:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 06, 2015, 01:21:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
and who is trying to create a conflict? Targeting establishments due to their clientele isn't meant to be provocative or threatening?

We know.

Shoot them all.

Your reaction shows you have no response.

If these protesters beef is with the police then why have they targeted a section of the community instead. Or are all these protests just a farce? Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that...

There is no point in debating you. You are trapped in a 'them versus us' dogma.

You haven't the faintest idea why these people would want to protest, and it would take a much better man than me to show you why they are doing it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2015, 04:31:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 06, 2015, 03:33:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 06, 2015, 01:21:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
and who is trying to create a conflict? Targeting establishments due to their clientele isn't meant to be provocative or threatening?

We know.

Shoot them all.

Your reaction shows you have no response.

If these protesters beef is with the police then why have they targeted a section of the community instead. Or are all these protests just a farce? Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that...

There is no point in debating you. You are trapped in a 'them versus us' dogma.

You haven't the faintest idea why these people would want to protest, and it would take a much better man than me to show you why they are doing it.

I asked you a straightforward question. Forget about the other debates so far and see if you can answer it.

"If these protesters beef is with the police then why have they targeted a section of the community instead"

and in their words

"target white spaces"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 06, 2015, 05:01:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 06, 2015, 04:31:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 06, 2015, 03:33:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 06, 2015, 01:21:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2015, 06:01:54 AM
Sweet Jesus. Not a very well thought out protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-brunch-protests-nyc-berkeley-oakland-190212742.html

Lol...file under...get a fvckin job!

I hope you two don't represent the attitudes of many in the US, because if you do, there is going to be serious conflict in the near future.
and who is trying to create a conflict? Targeting establishments due to their clientele isn't meant to be provocative or threatening?

We know.

Shoot them all.

Your reaction shows you have no response.

If these protesters beef is with the police then why have they targeted a section of the community instead. Or are all these protests just a farce? Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that...

There is no point in debating you. You are trapped in a 'them versus us' dogma.

You haven't the faintest idea why these people would want to protest, and it would take a much better man than me to show you why they are doing it.

I asked you a straightforward question. Forget about the other debates so far and see if you can answer it.

"If these protesters beef is with the police then why have they targeted a section of the community instead"

and in their words

"target white spaces"

Unarmed black people are shot dead by white cops and you are demanding to know why the inevitable protests are aimed at white people? Are you serious?

A strong sense of injustice is a very, very powerful and dangerous emotion. We have seen it all over the world and we have seen the responses it can generate on this island. You would be wise to open your mind instead of Paisleyite ranting.








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2015, 07:51:46 PM
It would almost be funny if it weren't so ironic

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/06/us/health-care-fixes-backed-by-harvards-experts-now-roil-its-faculty.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0&referrer=
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2015, 04:34:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 06, 2015, 05:01:18 AM
Unarmed black people are shot dead by white cops and you are demanding to know why the inevitable protests are aimed at white people? Are you serious?

A strong sense of injustice is a very, very powerful and dangerous emotion. We have seen it all over the world and we have seen the responses it can generate on this island. You would be wise to open your mind instead of Paisleyite ranting.

Yet again you sidestepped the question.

As far as I know not all white people are cops - unless you wish to try make some sort of sweeping generalization. It's all their fault. I don't think children can be cops but you know better obviously.

And I believe the police force has members from all backgrounds. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

All I see is organised intimidation targeting law abiding members of the public. Isn't this the same sort of stereotyping and profiling the protestors are rallying against in the first place or do the rules not apply. Just like using certain words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 07, 2015, 11:07:45 AM
How many Black or Hispanic police officers have shot and killed black (or hispanic) suspects/perps?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 07, 2015, 11:16:04 AM
By the way, I thought this was interesting, and it was a thought that crossed my mind as well. Unless you are a pure sack of racist filth, it's probably a much bigger deal to actually shoot a black suspect because you will have to handle the fall out. You'd think they'd be 100% that that was the only option.

Never heard of the 'Journal of Experimental Criminology' before, but it seems to have contributors from recognised Universities in the US.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/5/police-officers-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/5/police-officers-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/)

caveat, the author of the study, while an academic, is an ex-cop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 07, 2015, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 07, 2015, 11:07:45 AM
How many Black or Hispanic police officers have shot and killed black (or hispanic) suspects/perps?

An interesting question and it got me searching. Apparently there is no data base of Officer involved shootings though estimates are around 1100 people shot and killed by Cops every year.
In context there are approximately 40-45 cops killed in the line of duty and a population of 320m.

The only official log is compiled by the FBI. it is self reporting (requires police departments to log such killings), voluntary (not all departments participate) and it not audited. It tracks around 400 killings and is generally accepted as under-reporting.

There are a few attempts to collate this data unofficially, the most quoted one is FallenEncounters.org
The below visualisation gives a breakdown of logged deaths by state and by race but is does not track the ethnicity of the police.

http://www.fatalencounters.org/visualizations-2/

Victims: 34% white, 26% black, 24% not recorded, 12% Latino; 4% other.

Population 72% (White or Hispanic), 20% Black or mixed, 8% other

Interestingly 21% of shootings were in the Pacific states.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 07, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
Why is the pacific states one interesting? LA and San Francisco would be big enough cities, so I'd imagine they'd account for quite a few. That's a good site though Leo, fair play for finding it.

That (probably biased) link I posted from the ex-cop academic cites anecdotal evidence in Saint Louis of black SWAT team members (comprising 30% of the force) effecting 30% of the killings of black suspects. He says that is commensurate with other studies, but I have no way of knowing if that's right or not. If it were correct, it would lend weight to the claim that this is not a 'racial' issue, but rather a question of policing. Effectively, are all of these shootings necessary?

This is the paragraph.

Quote"So why are blacks shot more often by police? While the FBI's national database has been widely criticized as incomplete, data compiled by Mr. Klinger in St. Louis over the past decade shows that 90 percent of police shootings involve blacks, even though they only make up 49 percent of the city's population.

At the same time, he said, that figure is commensurate with the percentage of blacks involved in violent crime. Roughly 90 percent of those killed each year in St. Louis are black, and 90 percent of them are shot by other blacks, he said.

What's more, he said, black SWAT officers make up about one-third of the St. Louis force — and they commit on average about one-third of the shootings each year.

"And this is consistent with every other study that's ever been done," said Mr. Klinger, who, as a rookie officer in Los Angeles, fatally shot a black man armed with a knife who had stabbed his partner, Dennis Azevedo, in the chest.

"Once you start looking at levels of violence, levels of threat, blacks are not shot in manners that are disproportionate to their involvement in illegal activity," he said. "And it doesn't matter if the cop is black, white or Hispanic, police officers presented with deadly threats use deadly force. Period, paragraph, end of story."



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2015, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 07, 2015, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 07, 2015, 11:07:45 AM
How many Black or Hispanic police officers have shot and killed black (or hispanic) suspects/perps?

An interesting question and it got me searching. Apparently there is no data base of Officer involved shootings though estimates are around 1100 people shot and killed by Cops every year.
In context there are approximately 40-45 cops killed in the line of duty and a population of 320m.

The only official log is compiled by the FBI. it is self reporting (requires police departments to log such killings), voluntary (not all departments participate) and it not audited. It tracks around 400 killings and is generally accepted as under-reporting.

There are a few attempts to collate this data unofficially, the most quoted one is FallenEncounters.org
The below visualisation gives a breakdown of logged deaths by state and by race but is does not track the ethnicity of the police.

http://www.fatalencounters.org/visualizations-2/

Victims: 34% white, 26% black, 24% not recorded, 12% Latino; 4% other.

Population 72% (White or Hispanic), 20% Black or mixed, 8% other

Interestingly 21% of shootings were in the Pacific states.

Statistics can be very misleading and open to manipulation

Im guessing most police wear some type of body armor, so the mortality rate should be significantly lower than that of the general population.

Also, the police would be trained marksmen giving them an edge in any confrontation with an armed civilian suspect

Wonder how many of the fatalities were "suicide by cop"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 07, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2015, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 07, 2015, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 07, 2015, 11:07:45 AM
How many Black or Hispanic police officers have shot and killed black (or hispanic) suspects/perps?

An interesting question and it got me searching. Apparently there is no data base of Officer involved shootings though estimates are around 1100 people shot and killed by Cops every year.
In context there are approximately 40-45 cops killed in the line of duty and a population of 320m.

The only official log is compiled by the FBI. it is self reporting (requires police departments to log such killings), voluntary (not all departments participate) and it not audited. It tracks around 400 killings and is generally accepted as under-reporting.

There are a few attempts to collate this data unofficially, the most quoted one is FallenEncounters.org
The below visualisation gives a breakdown of logged deaths by state and by race but is does not track the ethnicity of the police.

http://www.fatalencounters.org/visualizations-2/

Victims: 34% white, 26% black, 24% not recorded, 12% Latino; 4% other.

Population 72% (White or Hispanic), 20% Black or mixed, 8% other

Interestingly 21% of shootings were in the Pacific states.

Statistics can be very misleading and open to manipulation

Im guessing most police wear some type of body armor, so the mortality rate should be significantly lower than that of the general population.

Also, the police would be trained marksmen giving them an edge in any confrontation with an armed civilian suspect

Wonder how many of the fatalities were "suicide by cop"?

Totally agree, just trying to find any info that is out there to let you all interpret as you see fit.

My first thoughts were that 45 cops killed per year as a percentage of the number of cops is a lot higher than percentage of the general population (1100 out of 320 million). This shows how dangerous the job is and why cops may tend to shoot first.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 07, 2015, 03:34:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 07, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
Why is the pacific states one interesting?

If it were correct, it would lend weight to the claim that this is not a 'racial' issue, but rather a question of policing. Effectively, are all of these shootings necessary?


I had forgot about LA which could explain much of it but had thought it was a significant in the context of the population distribution.

Part of the premise behind the Fatal encounters web-site is that if there were an accurate audited record it could identify trends to improve Police training and identify issues. They used the example from NY where Police were prohibited from firing at (or maybe from) moving vehicles and this resulted in a massive reduction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 07, 2015, 07:56:00 PM
AZ, is the significant issue here not the armed status of the victims coupled with the entnicity?

Personally if a cop shoots someone who pulls a gun on him, I am on the side of the cop regardless of the color of either.

The stats are slim as it is but they don't go into any detail such as whether the victim was armed or not. Shooting unarmed people is surely worthy of at least an investigation? Like I said, anyone who pulls a gun on a cop is fair game. If a cop shoots because he thought the victim was armed, and thus he genuinely thought life and others was in danger, then fine. But admit it was a terrible mistake and have the investigation.

Most reasonable people understand mistakes, but they hate one law for one and a different law for others.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 07, 2015, 08:43:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 07, 2015, 07:56:00 PM
AZ, is the significant issue here not the armed status of the victims coupled with the entnicity?

Personally if a cop shoots someone who pulls a gun on him, I am on the side of the cop regardless of the color of either.

The stats are slim as it is but they don't go into any detail such as whether the victim was armed or not. Shooting unarmed people is surely worthy of at least an investigation? Like I said, anyone who pulls a gun on a cop is fair game. If a cop shoots because he thought the victim was armed, and thus he genuinely thought life and others was in danger, then fine. But admit it was a terrible mistake and have the investigation.

Most reasonable people understand mistakes, but they hate one law for one and a different law for others.

Not necessarily. If the investigation finds that there was no reasonable ground for suspecting so, is it still fine?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 07, 2015, 10:08:45 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2015, 08:43:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 07, 2015, 07:56:00 PM
AZ, is the significant issue here not the armed status of the victims coupled with the entnicity?

Personally if a cop shoots someone who pulls a gun on him, I am on the side of the cop regardless of the color of either.

The stats are slim as it is but they don't go into any detail such as whether the victim was armed or not. Shooting unarmed people is surely worthy of at least an investigation? Like I said, anyone who pulls a gun on a cop is fair game. If a cop shoots because he thought the victim was armed, and thus he genuinely thought life and others was in danger, then fine. But admit it was a terrible mistake and have the investigation.

Most reasonable people understand mistakes, but they hate one law for one and a different law for others.

Not necessarily. If the investigation finds that there was no reasonable ground for suspecting so, is it still fine?

If it was found to be genuine I personally would accept it. It is hard to see how you could genuinely fear for you life without any reasonable ground to do so, but I am open to the possibility.

Either way there should be a proper investigation to learn from it and try to improve.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 07, 2015, 11:04:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 07, 2015, 10:08:45 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2015, 08:43:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 07, 2015, 07:56:00 PM
AZ, is the significant issue here not the armed status of the victims coupled with the entnicity?

Personally if a cop shoots someone who pulls a gun on him, I am on the side of the cop regardless of the color of either.

The stats are slim as it is but they don't go into any detail such as whether the victim was armed or not. Shooting unarmed people is surely worthy of at least an investigation? Like I said, anyone who pulls a gun on a cop is fair game. If a cop shoots because he thought the victim was armed, and thus he genuinely thought life and others was in danger, then fine. But admit it was a terrible mistake and have the investigation.

Most reasonable people understand mistakes, but they hate one law for one and a different law for others.

Not necessarily. If the investigation finds that there was no reasonable ground for suspecting so, is it still fine?

If it was found to be genuine I personally would accept it. It is hard to see how you could genuinely fear for you life without any reasonable ground to do so, but I am open to the possibility.

Either way there should be a proper investigation to learn from it and try to improve.

Well that's the debate, isn't it? Some people, including cops, might genuinely fear for their life where others would not as a result of, for example, racial profiling or poor training.

In this instance, I don't think it's "fair enough".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2015, 06:40:58 PM
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/05/04/2-suspected-burglars-shot-dead-by-homes-occupant/

Interesting one.

Burglars ended up being ages 14 and 16
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: cadhlancian on January 08, 2015, 10:54:37 PM
Have been and of this thread recently, mostly just reading comments. Was the Mike Brown , outside the apartment ever uploaded on this thread??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2015, 11:46:11 PM
Quote from: cadhlancian on January 08, 2015, 10:54:37 PM
Have been and of this thread recently, mostly just reading comments. Was the Mike Brown , outside the apartment ever uploaded on this thread??

That was a fake
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: cadhlancian on January 09, 2015, 11:17:39 AM
A fake?? The one I saw wasn't a fake. It was him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 09, 2015, 11:20:34 AM
Quote from: cadhlancian on January 09, 2015, 11:17:39 AM
A fake?? The one I saw wasn't a fake. It was him .

Is that the one where he cold cocks an older guy coming out of an appartment complex, and starts whaling on him on the ground? If so, that's a fake, according to snopes.com


http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/shawnspall.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/shawnspall.asp)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 17, 2015, 02:06:10 PM
http://wcrz.com/8-year-old-autistic-boy-arrested-put-in-straight-jacket-parents-sue-video/ (http://wcrz.com/8-year-old-autistic-boy-arrested-put-in-straight-jacket-parents-sue-video/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 19, 2015, 08:45:14 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726727/Ferguson-police-mistakenly-arrested-innocent-man-viciously-beating-charging-bleeding-THEIR-uniforms.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2015, 10:36:06 AM
http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/white-man-shoots-black-oklahoma-police-chief-4-times-walks-free/article/423764 (http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/white-man-shoots-black-oklahoma-police-chief-4-times-walks-free/article/423764)

White man shoots black Oklahoma police chief 4 times, walks free
By Brett Wilkins     Jan 17, 2015 in Crime

Sentinel - A white Oklahoma man described as a "survivalist" walked free after shooting a black police chief four times during a raid on his home triggered by a bomb threat that authorities say they believe may have been a hoax.

Sentinel Police Chief Louis Ross was shot three times in the chest and once in the arm by a man identified as Dallas Horton, a 29-year-old "gun enthusiast" and "survivalist." The Tulsa World reports Ross donned a bulletproof vest moments before executing the raid, which took place at a residence in the 200 block of South 4th Street at around 6:00 a.m. on Thursday.

According to NewsOK.com, authorities received a 911 call about a bomb threat targeting the Sentinel Community Action Center, home to the town's Head Start program. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol bomb squad responded, although no bomb was found.

Chief Ross and deputies from the Washita County Sheriff's Office traced the 911 call to the 4th Street home. But according to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI), the 911 call "was not made from phones in the possession of those who live inside the home nor any other phones inside the residence at 205 S. 4th in Sentinel."

It remains unclear who placed the 9/11 call. Sentinel Mayor Sam Dlugonski told the Oklahoman that the 911 caller used Horton's name when making the bomb threat.

It also remains unclear whether the officers announced themselves before breaking down the door of the home, but NewsOn6.com reports Horton told investigators from the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) that he did not know they were police.

Sentinel Mayor Sam Dlugonski said that after clearing one bedroom, Ross entered a second bedroom, where Horton shot him. The gunman was taken into custody and underwent interrogation, but was released due to insufficient evidence for arrest.

"We don't have probable cause to make an arrest at this moment," OSBI spokeswoman Jessica Brown told reporters. The agency did say possible explosive device was discovered in the home.

Chief Ross was taken to Elkview General Hospital in Hobart, where he was treated for a gunshot wound to the arm and released.
In addition to noting his love for guns and survivalism, Mayor Duglonski described Horton as "on edge." The Raw Story reports neighbors said he was unfriendly and mistrusted the government.

Horton had posted numerous racially-charged Facebook posts mocking black leaders like the controversial Rev. Al Sharpton.
One meme posted on Horton's Facebook page showed the blood-soaked front end of a tractor trailer with a dead body lodged in the grille, with the caption, "Just drove through Ferguson, didn't see any problems," a reference to the sometimes violent anti-police brutality protests that followed the non-indictment of a white police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black teen last August.
A total of seven firearms were removed from Horton's home.


Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/white-man-shoots-black-oklahoma-police-chief-4-times-walks-free/article/423764#ixzz3PGJPomkq
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 20, 2015, 09:58:06 PM
http://www.inquisitr.com/1769814/vagina-monologues-performance-canceled-for-being-inadequately-trans-friendly/

If only they used their power for good
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 20, 2015, 10:28:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2015, 09:58:06 PM
http://www.inquisitr.com/1769814/vagina-monologues-performance-canceled-for-being-inadequately-trans-friendly/

If only they used their power for good

Indeed, like Fox News, the NRA & the neo-cons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2015, 10:26:49 PM
(https://cmgcocoafab.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/sotu_meme2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 22, 2015, 04:05:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2015, 10:26:49 PM
(https://cmgcocoafab.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/sotu_meme2.jpg)

Pass the puke bag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 22, 2015, 07:47:31 AM
Pity about the two dudes behind him, they can be a bit distracting. I spent the whole speech wishing Biden would punch Boner.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 22, 2015, 03:59:16 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/video-man-shot-dead-by-new-jersey-police-had-hands-raised/


Hmmmmm......black suspect shot by black cop.  Where's Muppets Uncle Al when you need him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 22, 2015, 04:37:56 PM
Sheldon Silver is in deep shit...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-state-assembly-speaker-sheldon-silver-faces-arrest-1421909938
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 22, 2015, 04:38:52 PM
Where the riot be at bro? I need me a new flatscreen TV.
CNN haven't announced it yet.

Uncle Al be chillin' like a villan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on January 22, 2015, 04:53:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 22, 2015, 03:59:16 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/video-man-shot-dead-by-new-jersey-police-had-hands-raised/


Hmmmmm......black suspect shot by black cop.  Where's Muppets Uncle Al when you need him

Ah brilliant.

That makes all the other killings ok.

People will speak of your intellect for generations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2015, 06:54:26 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 22, 2015, 04:37:56 PM
Sheldon Silver is in deep shit...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-state-assembly-speaker-sheldon-silver-faces-arrest-1421909938

Rumours been around for years, so no great surprise.

Wonder what he has on Cuomo that caused him to shut down his Moreland Commission,  presumably when it was getting close?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 18, 2015, 04:01:43 PM
Bad as our lot are, this woman really takes the biscuit:

http://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Michelle-Bachmann-believe-Obamas-poor-relationship-with-Israel-will-bring-the-End-of-Times-398168 (http://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Michelle-Bachmann-believe-Obamas-poor-relationship-with-Israel-will-bring-the-End-of-Times-398168)

I wasn't sure if I should put this on one of the religious threads or not. But seeing as Bachmann reckons Jesus' second coming is as a result of Obama's policies, I am guessing the Messiah will be canvassing for the GOP. So this is probably the place for it.


....But, Bachmann is not afraid of the end of days, rather she says that "these are the most exciting days in history" because nothing is more important than the return of Jesus Christ.

"We need to be so on fire right now about the things of Christ and the things of God, that needs to occupy our time and our thoughts virtually from morning to night because we have very little time — in my opinion — left before the second return of Christ. That's good news!" the former congresswoman said. "The world is embracing degeneracy, but what that also tells us as we look at what the world is doing that they're going according to God's time clock. Pastors, preach it from the pulpit!"

"If we actually turn our back on Israel as we have seen Barack Obama do today, if that happens then I think we will see a scale and a level of push back in the United States, negative consequences," Bachmann told Understanding the Times radio host Jan Markell on Sunday. "I don't know what they are, but I believe that the Bible is true. And believe what the Bible says is that our nation and the people of our nation will reap a whirlwind, and we could see economic disasters, natural disasters.".....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 18, 2015, 05:55:45 PM
She wouldn't be alone with that view.  There's a fundamentalist Christian segment of the Republican party whose support of Israel is premised on the idea that Jesus will only return if there is a state of Israel.  New Yorker magazine did a feature on it a few years back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 18, 2015, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 18, 2015, 05:55:45 PM
She wouldn't be alone with that view.  There's a fundamentalist Christian segment of the Republican party whose support of Israel is premised on the idea that Jesus will only return if there is a state of Israel. New Yorker magazine did a feature on it a few years back.

Wow!

A fanatical religious right-wing political ideology. That is all the world needs.

How does it work? Will Jesus return as a Jew? Or as a Christian?? Or as Republican???

Imagine the craic if he came back as a Palestinian.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 18, 2015, 06:45:19 PM
Haven't managed to find the article I was thinking of, but there are a few snippets in these:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/06/18/bully-pulpit (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/06/18/bully-pulpit)

A recent survey by the Pew Research Center showed that a majority of white evangelicals believe that Jesus will return by 2050. Such ideas drive the foreign-policy views of evangelicals who believe that Jewish control of the Holy Lands must coincide with the Second Coming. Many offices at the A.F.A.'s headquarters are decorated with miniature Israeli flags. "Evangelical Christians now rival the American Jewish community in their support for Israel," Ralph Reed says.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/09/08/party-faithful (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/09/08/party-faithful)

To many fundamentalists, God's vow to Abraham in Genesis, "Unto thy seed I have given this land," meant that a real, political state of Israel would come into existence and that, with Christ's return, human history would culminate there. These fundamentalists are thus inclined toward a muscular Zionism, and Hagee is among the fiercest of the lot; he is the founder of Christians United for Israel, and McCain's friend and colleague Senator Joseph Lieberman has publicly supported the organization.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/06/28/prodigal-son (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/06/28/prodigal-son)
Huckabee stood in back and talked to me about the End of Days. This is a big topic among evangelicals. The "Left Behind" novels, which dramatize the Rapture, when believers are lifted up to Heaven and everyone else is stuck on a very violent Earth, have sold sixty-three million copies. (The books' co-authors, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, endorsed Huckabee for President in 2008. ) Many people on the trip were insistently pro-Israel, at least in part because they believe that Jewish control of the territory between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean is a Biblically ordained condition for the Second Coming of Christ.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 18, 2015, 07:10:52 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 18, 2015, 06:45:19 PM
Haven't managed to find the article I was thinking of, but there are a few snippets in these:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/06/18/bully-pulpit (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/06/18/bully-pulpit)

A recent survey by the Pew Research Center showed that a majority of white evangelicals believe that Jesus will return by 2050. Such ideas drive the foreign-policy views of evangelicals who believe that Jewish control of the Holy Lands must coincide with the Second Coming. Many offices at the A.F.A.'s headquarters are decorated with miniature Israeli flags. "Evangelical Christians now rival the American Jewish community in their support for Israel," Ralph Reed says.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/09/08/party-faithful (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/09/08/party-faithful)

To many fundamentalists, God's vow to Abraham in Genesis, "Unto thy seed I have given this land," meant that a real, political state of Israel would come into existence and that, with Christ's return, human history would culminate there. These fundamentalists are thus inclined toward a muscular Zionism, and Hagee is among the fiercest of the lot; he is the founder of Christians United for Israel, and McCain's friend and colleague Senator Joseph Lieberman has publicly supported the organization.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/06/28/prodigal-son (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/06/28/prodigal-son)
Huckabee stood in back and talked to me about the End of Days. This is a big topic among evangelicals. The "Left Behind" novels, which dramatize the Rapture, when believers are lifted up to Heaven and everyone else is stuck on a very violent Earth, have sold sixty-three million copies. (The books' co-authors, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, endorsed Huckabee for President in 2008. ) Many people on the trip were insistently pro-Israel, at least in part because they believe that Jewish control of the territory between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean is a Biblically ordained condition for the Second Coming of Christ.

Thanks for that.

Those clowns are dangerous lunatics: "I have to be careful saying this, because people get really upset—there's really no such thing as a Palestinian," 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on April 18, 2015, 07:21:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2015, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 18, 2015, 05:55:45 PM
She wouldn't be alone with that view.  There's a fundamentalist Christian segment of the Republican party whose support of Israel is premised on the idea that Jesus will only return if there is a state of Israel. New Yorker magazine did a feature on it a few years back.

Wow!

A fanatical religious right-wing political ideology. That is all the world needs.

How does it work? Will Jesus return as a Jew? Or as a Christian?? Or as Republican???

Imagine the craic if he came back as a Palestinian.
Coming back Black would be interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on April 19, 2015, 08:33:12 AM
Luke 13:35 has Jesus saying to Jerusalem that "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." In short, the Second Coming ain't happening until the Jews convert to Christianity. The likes of Bachmann are not going to wait indefinitely for that to happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2015, 08:37:07 AM
Quote from: deiseach on April 19, 2015, 08:33:12 AM
Luke 13:35 has Jesus saying to Jerusalem that "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." In short, the Second Coming ain't happening until the Jews convert to Christianity. The likes of Bachmann are not going to wait indefinitely for that to happen.
Fundi Christians don't care about Judaism. They just want the Rapture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxxbWy4fAY
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on April 19, 2015, 11:30:03 AM
There has been a big push over the past few years by Fundamentalist Christians to plant trees in the Negev desert in order
to fertilize the land for the 2nd coming of Christ. This is led by "God TV".........

Watch this short video and check out Rory Alec, the channel's co-founder. He had begun fundraising for the forest after receiving
"an instruction from God" a few years ago. He said God had told him: "Prepare the land for the return of my Son."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg8Y5y73M18
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 16, 2015, 06:32:11 PM
I see the Donald has thrown his wig into the ring to become next President

https://instagram.com/p/3_5AVjmhfw/ (https://instagram.com/p/3_5AVjmhfw/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2015, 07:44:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 16, 2015, 06:32:11 PM
I see the Donald has thrown his wig into the ring to become next President

https://instagram.com/p/3_5AVjmhfw/ (https://instagram.com/p/3_5AVjmhfw/)

That clown car is really filling up again!

Trump made a holy show of himself last time out, but I suppose when you are as shameless as him, no publicity is bad publicity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 16, 2015, 09:26:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2015, 07:44:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 16, 2015, 06:32:11 PM
I see the Donald has thrown his wig into the ring to become next President

https://instagram.com/p/3_5AVjmhfw/ (https://instagram.com/p/3_5AVjmhfw/)

That clown car is really filling up again!

Trump made a holy show of himself last time out, but I suppose when you are as shameless as him, no publicity is bad publicity.

There's some amount of eejits in politics but he goes way beyond

Here's his announcement speech

http://time.com/3923128/donald-trump-announcement-speech/

I should warn NSFW I was chuckling along but when I got to the bit where he says that America's GDP is zero I burst out laughing... had to stop back to work
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 17, 2015, 02:01:50 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/16/neil-young-donald-trump_n_7599596.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/16/neil-young-donald-trump_n_7599596.html)

NEW YORK (AP) — It didn't take long for Donald Trump to hit the first bump of what's sure to be a long road to reach the White House.

The New York real estate mogul arrived on stage at his campaign kickoff announcement Tuesday as the sounds of Neil Young's "Rockin' In The Free World" blared through the atrium at Trump Tower in midtown Manhattan.

The only problem? Young says Trump, a Republican, didn't have permission to use the music. The two-time inductee into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame says he's backing Bernie Sanders in the race for president.

While the endorsement might help Sanders, the Vermont independent who is running for the Democratic nomination, it won't do him much good at the ballot box. Young is a Canadian citizen.



Do these Republican clowns do any homework? This happened with Springsteen's Born in the USA as well.

If they listened to the lyrics they might realise the songs are written precisely because of people like them, and they are not complimentary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 17, 2015, 03:07:40 PM
Trump can make a few shillings of that there's no doubt but put him in charge of running the Country/World and we're all fucked!!

I haven't really gotten into the detail of it yet but are there any decent/impressive people from either Party putting their hands up or are we stuck with another Dubya gombeen!!!!

It amazes me how some people still stick up for him after he presided over the worst terror attack in history, a totally unjustified war/occupation and the Economic collapse of the world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 17, 2015, 03:18:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 17, 2015, 03:07:40 PM
Trump can make a few shillings of that there's no doubt but put him in charge of running the Country/World and we're all fucked!!

I haven't really gotten into the detail of it yet but are there any decent/impressive people from either Party putting their hands up or are we stuck with another Dubya gombeen!!!!

It amazes me how some people still stick up for him after he presided over the worst terror attack in history, a totally unjustified war/occupation and the Economic collapse of the world.

I make the same mistake as you do and assume that people think. They don't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 17, 2015, 03:52:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 17, 2015, 03:07:40 PM
Trump can make a few shillings of that there's no doubt but put him in charge of running the Country/World and we're all fucked!!

I haven't really gotten into the detail of it yet but are there any decent/impressive people from either Party putting their hands up or are we stuck with another Dubya gombeen!!!!

It amazes me how some people still stick up for him after he presided over the worst terror attack in history, a totally unjustified war/occupation and the Economic collapse of the world.

Hilary will win over the democrats. Just because they don't have anyone else and she is a woman. She will be their candidate.
Republicans I'm not sure - there are some gifted speakers out there but they're still politicians..... I always liked Chris Christie but he hasn't lost enough weight and I don't think the White House is ready to put forward an obese man as their President....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 18, 2015, 09:20:05 AM
Just came across this in the NYT which makes sense to me. . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/opinion/none-of-the-above.html?src=me&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Most%20Emailed&pgtype=article
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 18, 2015, 09:48:55 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33179019 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33179019)

Surely no one can deny this sickening massacre was racist?

Yet another waste of human life driven by hatred.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 18, 2015, 12:25:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Wait for the usual suspects on here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:27:05 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 18, 2015, 12:25:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Wait for the usual suspects on here.

Hey, that's profiling!!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 18, 2015, 12:30:00 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:27:05 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 18, 2015, 12:25:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Wait for the usual suspects on here.

Hey, that's profiling!!!!!

Fair enough, if anyone comes on here and argues that the above wasn't a remotely racist act, them I am guilty of profiling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 02:03:54 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 17, 2015, 03:52:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 17, 2015, 03:07:40 PM
Trump can make a few shillings of that there's no doubt but put him in charge of running the Country/World and we're all fucked!!

I haven't really gotten into the detail of it yet but are there any decent/impressive people from either Party putting their hands up or are we stuck with another Dubya gombeen!!!!

It amazes me how some people still stick up for him after he presided over the worst terror attack in history, a totally unjustified war/occupation and the Economic collapse of the world.

Hilary will win over the democrats. Just because they don't have anyone else and she is a woman. She will be their candidate.
Republicans I'm not sure - there are some gifted speakers out there but they're still politicians..... I always liked Chris Christie but he hasn't lost enough weight and I don't think the White House is ready to put forward an obese man as their President....

Agree on Hillary being the nominee. No one else worth a damn is running, except Sanders, who is at least honest and will ask her hard questions, but the media have pigeon holed him as a virtually a fringe communist and he won't last past Super Tuesday,  if he even gets that far.

Republicans.... I don't know who I could live with. Christie is a grandstanding bully, and increasingly revealing himself to be a smarmy, petty, politician,  but he's about the best of that lot, which is not really much of a compliment. It's such a shame that a sensible conservative like Jon Huntsman can get no traction in the national GOP given how reactionary and extremist their base has become.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 03:45:31 PM
Obviously the gun lobby I'd assume. And rightly so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 18, 2015, 03:56:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at

Really? That is the question now is it?

Nothing else to see here, LOOK OVER HERE AT THE EVIL LIBERAL PRESS.

Sick bastard.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 18, 2015, 03:57:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 02:03:54 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 17, 2015, 03:52:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 17, 2015, 03:07:40 PM
Trump can make a few shillings of that there's no doubt but put him in charge of running the Country/World and we're all fucked!!

I haven't really gotten into the detail of it yet but are there any decent/impressive people from either Party putting their hands up or are we stuck with another Dubya gombeen!!!!

It amazes me how some people still stick up for him after he presided over the worst terror attack in history, a totally unjustified war/occupation and the Economic collapse of the world.

Hilary will win over the democrats. Just because they don't have anyone else and she is a woman. She will be their candidate.
Republicans I'm not sure - there are some gifted speakers out there but they're still politicians..... I always liked Chris Christie but he hasn't lost enough weight and I don't think the White House is ready to put forward an obese man as their President....

Agree on Hillary being the nominee. No one else worth a damn is running, except Sanders, who is at least honest and will ask her hard questions, but the media have pigeon holed him as a virtually a fringe communist and he won't last past Super Tuesday,  if he even gets that far.

Republicans.... I don't know who I could live with. Christie is a grandstanding bully, and increasingly revealing himself to be a smarmy, petty, politician,  but he's about the best of that lot, which is not really much of a compliment. It's such a shame that a sensible conservative like Jon Huntsman can get no traction in the national GOP given how reactionary and extremist their base has become.

I thought this was funny - Iowa democrats, campaigners no less, being asked about Hilary's accomplishments as secretary of state.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfP8txGBfHc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfP8txGBfHc)

they are all mostly the same J70. America is run by big business - its sad to see them all topple to the coin one by one...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 18, 2015, 03:56:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at

Really? That is the question now is it?

Nothing else to see here, LOOK OVER HERE AT THE EVIL LIBERAL PRESS.

Sick b**tard.

Jaysus, I've missed something here. That escalated like a rocket!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at

Not the time for pigeon holing this politically Whitey or Muppet. These where real people with real families shot to death in a church.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on June 18, 2015, 04:13:28 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 18, 2015, 03:56:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at

Really? That is the question now is it?

Nothing else to see here, LOOK OVER HERE AT THE EVIL LIBERAL PRESS.

Sick b**tard.

Jaysus, I've missed something here. That escalated like a rocket!

:o :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 18, 2015, 04:30:37 PM
The shooter has been arrested

http://www.wltx.com/story/news/2015/06/18/dylann-storm-roof-charleston-sc-shooting/28917299/

His Facebook profile picture has him wearing a jacket with an apartheid era South African flag and a white minority rule era Rhodesia flag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 04:31:44 PM
A 21 year old. FFS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 04:37:57 PM
Apparently given a gun for his birthday recently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 18, 2015, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at

Not the time for pigeon holing this politically Whitey or Muppet. These where real people with real families shot to death in a church.

Exactly. It is real innocent people massacred.

It has nothing to do with The Liberal Press.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2015, 04:45:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 18, 2015, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at

Not the time for pigeon holing this politically Whitey or Muppet. These where real people with real families shot to death in a church.

Exactly. It is real innocent people massacred.

It has nothing to do with The Liberal Press.

LOL

The shooting has nothing to do with the Liberal press but mark my words, let's see who they try and pin it on. BTW. I blame the guys barber.....imagine letting someone walk out of your barbershop lookng like that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 04:48:14 PM
I think "deranged young man gets his hands on guns, legally,  and, yet again,  lots of people end up dead", is the main story. In recent years you've had Sikhs targeted (mistaken for muslims), kids, random strangers, college students, high school students,  work colleagues etc., etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 04:51:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 04:45:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 18, 2015, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at

Not the time for pigeon holing this politically Whitey or Muppet. These where real people with real families shot to death in a church.

Exactly. It is real innocent people massacred.

It has nothing to do with The Liberal Press.

LOL

The shooting has nothing to do with the Liberal press but mark my words, let's see who they try and pin it on. BTW. I blame the guys barber.....imagine letting someone walk out of your barbershop lookng like that

And Fox News and their pals will deny that racism or prejudice had anything to do with and that access to guns had anything to do with it. Whereas had it been a black man or, god forbid, muslim or atheist attacking a white church....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2015, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 04:51:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 04:45:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 18, 2015, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at

Not the time for pigeon holing this politically Whitey or Muppet. These where real people with real families shot to death in a church.

Exactly. It is real innocent people massacred.

It has nothing to do with The Liberal Press.

LOL

The shooting has nothing to do with the Liberal press but mark my words, let's see who they try and pin it on. BTW. I blame the guys barber.....imagine letting someone walk out of your barbershop lookng like that

And Fox News and their pals will deny that racism or prejudice had anything to do with and that access to guns had anything to do with it. Whereas had it been a black man or, god forbid, muslim or atheist attacking a white church....

Correct....but most of you guys think that Fox are the only ones that have any bias and that everything out of CNN and the NY Times is gospel
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 18, 2015, 06:09:15 PM
And here he is with a Confederate States of America license plate.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/06/dylann-roof-pictures-photographs-photos-instagram-twitter-facebook/5/

(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/roof-confederate-states.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780)

Rhodesia, apartheid South Africa and the Confederacy, the trifecta of racist states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 06:16:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 04:51:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 04:45:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 18, 2015, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 18, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
Strange statement muppet. Why would anyone deny that if the cops are saying it was a hate crime?

Of course it was rascist......the question is now who on the right will the liberal press will try to demonize and point fingers at

Not the time for pigeon holing this politically Whitey or Muppet. These where real people with real families shot to death in a church.

Exactly. It is real innocent people massacred.

It has nothing to do with The Liberal Press.

LOL

The shooting has nothing to do with the Liberal press but mark my words, let's see who they try and pin it on. BTW. I blame the guys barber.....imagine letting someone walk out of your barbershop lookng like that

And Fox News and their pals will deny that racism or prejudice had anything to do with and that access to guns had anything to do with it. Whereas had it been a black man or, god forbid, muslim or atheist attacking a white church....

Correct....but most of you guys think that Fox are the only ones that have any bias and that everything out of CNN and the NY Times is gospel

CNN is unwatchable, sensationalist shite.

Times is a really good paper overall, with some excellent investigative stuff. Yeah, their editorial page has a slant, but's it's an editorial page! I seriously doubt,  for example, that many here will take their overall position on Israel - Palestine as gospel,  however?  Or their non-critical coverage of the build-up to the Iraq war?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 06:16:37 PM

CNN is unwatchable, sensationalist shite.


Why is this the case? Pretty much every news seems to be the same? PBS news seems to be only one that isn't trying to get some sorta reaction out of you.
While the newspapers appear to be a little more sane?

However in Ireland & UK the roles of the print press and the broadcast media appear to be reversed, Tabloids at least.

Are there stricter standards that the broadcast media have to adhere to?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 06:16:37 PM

CNN is unwatchable, sensationalist shite.


Why is this the case? Pretty much every news seems to be the same? PBS news seems to be only one that isn't trying to get some sorta reaction out of you.
While the newspapers appear to be a little more sane?

However in Ireland & UK the roles of the print press and the broadcast media appear to be reversed, Tabloids at least.

Are there stricter standards that the broadcast media have to adhere to?

Ratings and a 24 hour cycle my lad!

Have to fill time and hype things up to keep people watching and advertising dollars rolling in.

PBS and NPR don't have that problem and can devote a bit of depth and consideration to their coverage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 06:44:52 PM
Listening to NPR going to work yesterday and they had a five minute bit of their morning news hour on Georgio Moroder. I knew his name and the song with the Human League dude, but had no idea he was a major figure in disco and other areas such as movies as a music producer (even won an Oscar).

You wouldn't learn THAT on talk radio or CNN!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 06:54:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 06:16:37 PM

CNN is unwatchable, sensationalist shite.


Why is this the case? Pretty much every news seems to be the same? PBS news seems to be only one that isn't trying to get some sorta reaction out of you.
While the newspapers appear to be a little more sane?

However in Ireland & UK the roles of the print press and the broadcast media appear to be reversed, Tabloids at least.

Are there stricter standards that the broadcast media have to adhere to?

Ratings and a 24 hour cycle my lad!

Have to fill time and hype things up to keep people watching and advertising dollars rolling in.

PBS and NPR don't have that problem and can devote a bit of depth and consideration to their coverage.

Yeah I get that, a good example of that in SoCal is when there is car chase, sorry no "real" news tonite some methhead nicked a car and wont stop for the police.
But why is it not the case at home?

Obviously BBC & RTE have some type of public funding like PBS but the like of Sky which is part of Fox for example is nowhere near even the mildest version of any mainstream US news network.
I asked a guy I used to work with about this and he reckoned it was to do with freedom of speech. ::)

If there isnt a logical reasonable answer its in the name of freedom!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 07:00:16 PM
Good point on Sky, although I have not seen much of them in the past decade or so. They do beat the political or sensationalist drum as necessary though. They were full on in the build up to the NATO action in Kosovo in the late 90s, for example. Or the non-stop hype when Diana died.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 07:31:50 PM
Yeah not saying they arent sensationalist I wouldn't be watching it in a big hurry put it like that.

But why is it that they don't turn into sensationalist opinionated self righteous retards that American news networks do and the tabloids do? Is there standards they have to adhere to?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 07:31:50 PM
Yeah not saying they arent sensationalist I wouldn't be watching it in a big hurry put it like that.

But why is it that they don't turn into sensationalist opinionated self righteous retards that American news networks do and the tabloids do? Is there standards they have to adhere to?

No idea.

I do find American politics itself much more negative and sensationalist though than Irish or British. Unless things have changed in the last decade, you don't see those ridiculous negative political ads on TV in Britain and Ireland. Politicians are not constantly in campaign mode and nor are they always grandstanding about this or that. We are 17 months out from the US presidential election and there's already 20 declared candidates campaigning, and have been for 6 months!

Politics,  for better or worse, just seems to be a much bigger, more divisive, aspect of life in America compared to home. Yes, now and again an issue like gay marriage or water rates will engage the Irish public, but mostly there is somewhat of a consensus,  or if there isn't,  people are much more polite about it.

In the US, there are lots of people who actively loathe fellow citizens,  even people they know, because they have the "wrong" political or religious or whatever outlook. Perhaps it an outgrowth of the ethnic diversity and historical fear mongering.

The cable news channels and talk radio feed off that, while also perpetuating it, by sensationalizing and exaggerating everything political. And then they throw in the voyeuristic stuff to supplement the ratings grab.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 07:31:50 PM
Yeah not saying they arent sensationalist I wouldn't be watching it in a big hurry put it like that.

But why is it that they don't turn into sensationalist opinionated self righteous retards that American news networks do and the tabloids do? Is there standards they have to adhere to?

I believe that they are funded at least partially with public monies. If they became overly biased one way or the other, it would be very easy for the offended party to cut funding the. Ext time they get into power. As a result, at least in my experience they have been middle of he road, albeit with a slight left of center flavor
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 08:41:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 07:31:50 PM
Yeah not saying they arent sensationalist I wouldn't be watching it in a big hurry put it like that.

But why is it that they don't turn into sensationalist opinionated self righteous retards that American news networks do and the tabloids do? Is there standards they have to adhere to?

I believe that they are funded at least partially with public monies. If they became overly biased one way or the other, it would be very easy for the offended party to cut funding the. Ext time they get into power. As a result, at least in my experience they have been middle of he road, albeit with a slight left of center flavor

As I said b4 that might be the case for RTE and BBC but not for Sky. Your feeling that they are left of center might be more to do with what your used to in America where politics from a universal western perspective is well to the right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 07:31:50 PM
Yeah not saying they arent sensationalist I wouldn't be watching it in a big hurry put it like that.

But why is it that they don't turn into sensationalist opinionated self righteous retards that American news networks do and the tabloids do? Is there standards they have to adhere to?

No idea.

I do find American politics itself much more negative and sensationalist though than Irish or British. Unless things have changed in the last decade, you don't see those ridiculous negative political ads on TV in Britain and Ireland. Politicians are not constantly in campaign mode and nor are they always grandstanding about this or that. We are 17 months out from the US presidential election and there's already 20 declared candidates campaigning, and have been for 6 months!

Politics,  for better or worse, just seems to be a much bigger, more divisive, aspect of life in America compared to home. Yes, now and again an issue like gay marriage or water rates will engage the Irish public, but mostly there is somewhat of a consensus,  or if there isn't,  people are much more polite about it.

In the US, there are lots of people who actively loathe fellow citizens,  even people they know, because they have the "wrong" political or religious or whatever outlook. Perhaps it an outgrowth of the ethnic diversity and historical fear mongering.

The cable news channels and talk radio feed off that, while also perpetuating it, by sensationalizing and exaggerating everything political. And then they throw in the voyeuristic stuff to supplement the ratings grab.

Spot on J70 I agree with almost everything you say there. Esp the stuff on how people's opinion of other is formed on a few political issues and then demonise them like they are devil himself. Very sad and actually infuriating. Both "sides" in America are equally as bad at this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 18, 2015, 09:25:42 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 07:31:50 PM
Yeah not saying they arent sensationalist I wouldn't be watching it in a big hurry put it like that.

But why is it that they don't turn into sensationalist opinionated self righteous retards that American news networks do and the tabloids do? Is there standards they have to adhere to?

No idea.

I do find American politics itself much more negative and sensationalist though than Irish or British. Unless things have changed in the last decade, you don't see those ridiculous negative political ads on TV in Britain and Ireland. Politicians are not constantly in campaign mode and nor are they always grandstanding about this or that. We are 17 months out from the US presidential election and there's already 20 declared candidates campaigning, and have been for 6 months!

Politics,  for better or worse, just seems to be a much bigger, more divisive, aspect of life in America compared to home. Yes, now and again an issue like gay marriage or water rates will engage the Irish public, but mostly there is somewhat of a consensus,  or if there isn't,  people are much more polite about it.

In the US, there are lots of people who actively loathe fellow citizens,  even people they know, because they have the "wrong" political or religious or whatever outlook. Perhaps it an outgrowth of the ethnic diversity and historical fear mongering.

The cable news channels and talk radio feed off that, while also perpetuating it, by sensationalizing and exaggerating everything political. And then they throw in the voyeuristic stuff to supplement the ratings grab.

Spot on J70 I agree with almost everything you say there. Esp the stuff on how people's opinion of other is formed on a few political issues and then demonise them like they are devil himself. Very sad and actually infuriating. Both "sides" in America are equally as bad at this
The way I look at it as someone not eligible to vote is this:
Republicans cling to religious morals that mean so much to so many - like the protection of life. But aside from that their policies are designed to support the rich and forget everyone else.
Democrats have fairly decent policies but their morals are out the window.

I see the republicans bending a little this campaign to win more votes. It happened during the last campaign with Romney who was pro-life then changed his view towards the end. We'll see more of the same this time around. Watch for the green party to gain more traction as a result.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2015, 09:30:54 PM
From what I've heard, Fox News are spinning this massacre as an "attack on faith" and down playing the racist aspect of it.

Shocked, I tell ya!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 18, 2015, 09:25:42 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 18, 2015, 07:31:50 PM
Yeah not saying they arent sensationalist I wouldn't be watching it in a big hurry put it like that.

But why is it that they don't turn into sensationalist opinionated self righteous retards that American news networks do and the tabloids do? Is there standards they have to adhere to?

No idea.

I do find American politics itself much more negative and sensationalist though than Irish or British. Unless things have changed in the last decade, you don't see those ridiculous negative political ads on TV in Britain and Ireland. Politicians are not constantly in campaign mode and nor are they always grandstanding about this or that. We are 17 months out from the US presidential election and there's already 20 declared candidates campaigning, and have been for 6 months!

Politics,  for better or worse, just seems to be a much bigger, more divisive, aspect of life in America compared to home. Yes, now and again an issue like gay marriage or water rates will engage the Irish public, but mostly there is somewhat of a consensus,  or if there isn't,  people are much more polite about it.

In the US, there are lots of people who actively loathe fellow citizens,  even people they know, because they have the "wrong" political or religious or whatever outlook. Perhaps it an outgrowth of the ethnic diversity and historical fear mongering.

The cable news channels and talk radio feed off that, while also perpetuating it, by sensationalizing and exaggerating everything political. And then they throw in the voyeuristic stuff to supplement the ratings grab.

Spot on J70 I agree with almost everything you say there. Esp the stuff on how people's opinion of other is formed on a few political issues and then demonise them like they are devil himself. Very sad and actually infuriating. Both "sides" in America are equally as bad at this
The way I look at it as someone not eligible to vote is this:
Republicans cling to religious morals that mean so much to so many - like the protection of life. But aside from that their policies are designed to support the rich and forget everyone else.
Democrats have fairly decent policies but their morals are out the window.

I see the republicans bending a little this campaign to win more votes. It happened during the last campaign with Romney who was pro-life then changed his view towards the end. We'll see more of the same this time around. Watch for the green party to gain more traction as a result.

If you call lining the pockets of the rich moral... and most democrats aren't that loose

But Yeah the overall mood seems to be turning more towards individual rights throughout the Western World. You should have the opportunity to do whatever you want, as long as everyone else as the same right.

This sounds all fine and well but at what point will the second part of the above sentence be overtaken by the first? And the individual demands more and more for themselves forgetting about the neighbours and friends and society as a whole.

Its only actually by using values of understanding, empathy, mercy, forgiveness that allow us to work together and build a successful society, which in turn allows us the luxury of individual freedoms. But then the cruel twist is of course if that luxury is indulged too excessively it means the original values will be left by the way side and thus cause society to come apart at the seams.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 20, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH7k73eWgAQCvWl.png:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2015, 02:08:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 20, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH7k73eWgAQCvWl.png:large)

Freedom!  2nd amendment!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 21, 2015, 05:11:50 AM
Ahh Freedom ehh

I also once seen that as an explanation (FB comment)  for why America doesn't have maternity leave :D

Also on those graphs comparing "wealthy countries" to America in terms of gun crime and so on are a good demonstration of the flawed thinking that wealth has something to do with crime rate, completely unrelated. Unless you want to compare wealth disparity....

(https://aphyr.com/data/posts/261/homicide-vs-wealth-gini.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on June 21, 2015, 08:28:30 AM
Cop in New Orleans shot by a prisoner yesterday. It just never ends over there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 21, 2015, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 21, 2015, 08:28:30 AM
Cop in New Orleans shot by a prisoner yesterday. It just never ends over there.

30,000 a year roughly.

No developed country comes remotely close.

The notion in the NRA that elderly women could have saved themselves by carrying guns to church is beyond idiotic. Even the Wild West, as portrayed in the daftest of movies, had some limits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 20, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH7k73eWgAQCvWl.png:large)

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2015, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 20, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH7k73eWgAQCvWl.png:large)

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Any country is going to have lower criminal death and injury rates among wealthier segments of its society. I'm sure violent crime and murder rates are much higher in Tallaght or Darndale than they are in Foxrock or Dalkey.

What would the rate in Ireland be compared to the rate with your demographic in the MA or the US overall?

The stats clearly show reflect the ludicrous gun fetish that exists in the US which is not replicated in any other western country. If all those guns weren't out there and freely available, legally or not, those figures would be nowhere near what they are.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 21, 2015, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 20, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH7k73eWgAQCvWl.png:large)

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Is that death rate or murder rate, what are we talking about here?

Have you any stats to back that up? Do you also see yourself as just a Bostian...not American, and White.... not American. Are we talking about the nation of white people that live in MA or are we talking about America?

I agree with you that the chart is misleading, it is quite evident from that chart that a countries wealth is not relating to gun crime. However if you look at my chart on wealth disparity then you will see a relationship emerging which America fits into nicely.

Although in fairness if we are having an open mind on the subject it would also squash the idea that availability of guns is related to murders.

So if you wanna solve gun crime start spreading the wealth!

Are you packing BTW ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2015, 08:06:13 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 21, 2015, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 20, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH7k73eWgAQCvWl.png:large)

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Is that death rate or murder rate, what are we talking about here?

Have you any stats to back that up? Do you also see yourself as just a Bostian...not American, and White.... not American. Are we talking about the nation of white people that live in MA or are we talking about America?

I agree with you that the chart is misleading, it is quite evident from that chart that a countries wealth is not relating to gun crime. However if you look at my chart on wealth disparity then you will see a relationship emerging which America fits into nicely.

Although in fairness if we are having an open mind on the subject it would also squash the idea that availability of guns is related to murders.

So if you wanna solve gun crime start spreading the wealth!

Are you packing BTW ?

All the stats are in the article I linked in.

On average 4 white people per 1,000,000 population (all races) will die from a gunshot in MA in any given year. My guess is that's a much, much lower than the murder rate in Ireland.



The chart Muppet put up makes it seem like we are all running around ducking and diving avoiding flying bullets, whereas the reality couldn't be further from the truth. The vast majority of gun deaths occur in almost exclusively minority neighborhoods-the types of places you or I would never, ever, ever even set foot it.

I live in a town has 7-8,000 people and there hasn't been a murder here during the past 10 years.  I just checked the publicly available data and approx 350 residents of the town have a permit to own a gun?  My guess is that the average permit owner would own about 5 guns, so that would put 1,500 legally owned firearms my town. (The guy who cut my hair on Friday evening told me he has 20 guns himself)

The nearest town to where I grew up in Ireland is Castlebar and there were 6 murders there over the past 10 years (that I can remember). 4 people stabbed to death, one shot dead in a traveller feud, and one person kicked to death during a family dispute.

I'm not for a moment saying that there isn't a problem with guns in this country, but the ONLY solution can't be MORE gun laws

And no I don't own a gun and I don't intend ever owning one, but I do respect the rights of sane, law abiding citizens to exercise their second amendment rights
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2015, 08:55:05 PM
Similarly Whitey, the only solution can't be that anyone and everyone packs heat, as the pro-gun crowd would tell you. They won't even countenance the mildest of measures such as to check backgrounds at gun shows and so on. The fact is that the NRA owns enough politicians and the gun nuts are so, so much more motivated on this topic that nothing is ever going to change. They faced down the groundswell of public opinion in favour of pretty basic, gentle measures after Sandy Hook FFS. If something as beyond the pale and unspeakable as that outrage won't budge them, then nothing will. The gun nuts have won. Its sad how American society has evolved in that respect. Basically, there are so many guns out there now, that many people feel they must also own them in order to protect themselves from the psychopaths who have instant and easy access to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 21, 2015, 09:15:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 08:06:13 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 21, 2015, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 20, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH7k73eWgAQCvWl.png:large)

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Is that death rate or murder rate, what are we talking about here?

Have you any stats to back that up? Do you also see yourself as just a Bostian...not American, and White.... not American. Are we talking about the nation of white people that live in MA or are we talking about America?

I agree with you that the chart is misleading, it is quite evident from that chart that a countries wealth is not relating to gun crime. However if you look at my chart on wealth disparity then you will see a relationship emerging which America fits into nicely.

Although in fairness if we are having an open mind on the subject it would also squash the idea that availability of guns is related to murders.

So if you wanna solve gun crime start spreading the wealth!

Are you packing BTW ?

All the stats are in the article I linked in.

On average 4 white people per 1,000,000 population (all races) will die from a gunshot in MA in any given year. My guess is that's a much, much lower than the murder rate in Ireland.



The chart Muppet put up makes it seem like we are all running around ducking and diving avoiding flying bullets, whereas the reality couldn't be further from the truth. The vast majority of gun deaths occur in almost exclusively minority neighborhoods-the types of places you or I would never, ever, ever even set foot it.

I live in a town has 7-8,000 people and there hasn't been a murder here during the past 10 years.  I just checked the publicly available data and approx 350 residents of the town have a permit to own a gun?  My guess is that the average permit owner would own about 5 guns, so that would put 1,500 legally owned firearms my town. (The guy who cut my hair on Friday evening told me he has 20 guns himself)

The nearest town to where I grew up in Ireland is Castlebar and there were 6 murders there over the past 10 years (that I can remember). 4 people stabbed to death, one shot dead in a traveller feud, and one person kicked to death during a family dispute.

I'm not for a moment saying that there isn't a problem with guns in this country, but the ONLY solution can't be MORE gun laws

And no I don't own a gun and I don't intend ever owning one, but I do respect the rights of sane, law abiding citizens to exercise their second amendment rights

Any stats on the Irish side of the equation tho to back it up?

Also interesting you would bring the travellers into it as some people in Ireland wouldn't really count on them as being part of Irish society, same as you don't count "minorities" being part of your society

BTW where I live the safest neighborhoods are white ones, which is a minority around these parts! A reality coming to the rest of America soon, where every "ethnicity" will be a minority, so according to your theory gun crime is gonna get worse as everyone becomes a minority. ;)

However to me your attitude is exactly the reason why there is high level of gun crime in America and that is that everyone looks out for himself to an extreme level, they don't care about their neighbours, communities or the community next door. Something you illustrated very well by having to look up the homicide history in your town whereas you knew of the top of your head about Mayo, you even knew the details. I include myself in that BTW there have been a couple of murders where I live quite close by actually earlier this year, and I only found out about them recently, however if there was a murder in Tyrone Id know immediately.

This is also something that the anti-gun lobby are being a little tunnel visioned about that guns are the root of the problem, as I believe the root of the problem is the individualistic nature of American society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2015, 10:32:53 PM
Omaghjoe...Irish stats are on the graph Muppet put up.

Even not counting the traveller murder.....there were still 5 murders in Castlebar which is astounding. 4/5 murders were mental health/drug related while number 5 was drink related.

It's not that I don't care what happens in the minority neighborhoods, I just have so much on my own plate between work and family obligations, that I need to watch my own corner first.....I pay more than my share in tax to support all these social programs, so as far as I'm concerned, my obligation ends there (quite a selfish attitude  I would admit)

You misread my statement on the number of murders...re read what I said.  I knew there were no murders....I needed to look up how many gun permits there were in town.

The biggest issue, imho, is that there has been a complete breakdown in the structure of the African American community. Kids having kids, children being raised without father figures or strong female role models, drugs, poverty, crap schools, crime, lack of infrastructure.  Solve those issues and you'll see a big drop in gun crime
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 21, 2015, 10:35:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 20, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH7k73eWgAQCvWl.png:large)

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Oh I couldn't agree more. It is the complete indifference to the deaths of blacks from people like yourself that bothers me. 30,000 deaths a year is carnage, but as long as 'Whitey' is ok, then it is fine.

(http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/00001168.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2015, 10:43:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 21, 2015, 10:35:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 20, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH7k73eWgAQCvWl.png:large)

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Oh I couldn't agree more. It is the complete indifference to the deaths of blacks from people like yourself that bothers me. 30,000 deaths a year is carnage, but as long as 'Whitey' is ok, then it is fine.

(http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/00001168.gif)

So how much intervening have you done with the criminal gangs in Southill, O Malley Park, Jobstown, or on the halting sites of Finglas....shag all I'm sure-LOL. But thanks for the lecture.....I sure it makes you feel better about yourself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 21, 2015, 10:45:30 PM
Whitey, the US is estimated to own 35% - 50% of the world privately owned guns.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list (http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list)

The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people

Amazingly, it has the highest gun homicides in the developed world, by a mile. It doesn't matter if people in your 'town' haven't seen a murder in a few years. And comparing the US with Castlebar in terms of murder rate is beyond idiotic, at least have the guts to post the name of your 'town' in the States and I bet I will find a murder in the last 10 years.

I have to say, I admire the way you try to paint Castlebar as a homicide haven while suggesting that the States is statistically misunderstood.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 21, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 10:43:34 PM
So how much intervening have you done with the criminal gangs in Southill, O Malley Park, Jobstown, or on the halting sites of Finglas....shag all I'm sure-LOL. But thanks for the lecture.....I sure it makes you feel better about yourself

But Whitey, I am not the one pretending there is nothing wrong with all this shooting. As long as black people die, everything is fine, isn't that right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2015, 10:54:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 21, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 10:43:34 PM
So how much intervening have you done with the criminal gangs in Southill, O Malley Park, Jobstown, or on the halting sites of Finglas....shag all I'm sure-LOL. But thanks for the lecture.....I sure it makes you feel better about yourself

But Whitey, I am not the one pretending there is nothing wrong with all this shooting. As long as black people die, everything is fine, isn't that right?

Well, were actually on the same page....but the issue is not JUST guns.....the underlying root causes are socio economic.....solve those problems and we're more than halfway home to solving the gun issue. If people have jobs and mortgages and families and aspirations, they won't have time for all this other nonsense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2015, 11:03:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 21, 2015, 10:45:30 PM
Whitey, the US is estimated to own 35% - 50% of the world privately owned guns.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list (http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list)

The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people

Amazingly, it has the highest gun homicides in the developed world, by a mile. It doesn't matter if people in your 'town' haven't seen a murder in a few years. And comparing the US with Castlebar in terms of murder rate is beyond idiotic, at least have the guts to post the name of your 'town' in the States and I bet I will find a murder in the last 10 years.

I have to say, I admire the way you try to paint Castlebar as a homicide haven while suggesting that the States is statistically misunderstood.

LOL....so following your logic, if they introduced "knife control" in Castlebar those 4 murders not have occurred

You haven't a clue what your talking about....check this link...it gives the crime stats for almost every town in MA going back 10 years.......there's DOZENS of towns that haven't had a murder of any description in the past decade let alone a gun murder

http://www.city-data.com/city/Massachusetts.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 21, 2015, 11:14:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 11:03:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 21, 2015, 10:45:30 PM
Whitey, the US is estimated to own 35% - 50% of the world privately owned guns.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list (http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list)

The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people

Amazingly, it has the highest gun homicides in the developed world, by a mile. It doesn't matter if people in your 'town' haven't seen a murder in a few years. And comparing the US with Castlebar in terms of murder rate is beyond idiotic, at least have the guts to post the name of your 'town' in the States and I bet I will find a murder in the last 10 years.

I have to say, I admire the way you try to paint Castlebar as a homicide haven while suggesting that the States is statistically misunderstood.

LOL....so following your logic, if they introduced "knife control" in Castlebar those 4 murders not have occurred

You haven't a clue what your talking about....check this link...it gives the crime stats for almost every town in MA going back 10 years.......there's DOZENS of towns that haven't had a murder of any description in the past decade let alone a gun murder

http://www.city-data.com/city/Massachusetts.html

Nope that wasn't my logic. You introduced the ridiculous comparison with Castlebar, not me. You must be very proud of your home place to suggest that the murders there compare with the 30,000 a year in the US.

I checked the link, now please show me what you think it shows, because I see nothing to support your argument. Where as these 'dozens' of towns that haven't had a murder of any description on that graph?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 21, 2015, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 11:42:34 PM
Someone asked me to do a like to like comparison between where I live in US and Ireland....you may not have read that part of the thread......that's why I interjected Castlebar into the discussion

Unfortunately the link is not that user friendly and requires a lot of heavy lifting...let me see if I can get you a better link.....but I absolutely stand by my statement and if I have time I will dig it our for you.  (My town and 3 towns directly abutting me did not have one murder in the past 10 years)

Oh I see.

'Someone asked you'.

And you picked Castlebar. A tiny sample of murders in Ireland to compare with your tiny sample of murders in the US.

And you provided no links. Just your memory.

And then you claimed your link to Massachusetts data showed something. But it didn't.

Jeeeessss, it is hard being an NRA nut.


Why don't you just argue that the octogenarians should have been packing heat like the other nut jobs?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 22, 2015, 12:17:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2015, 12:02:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 21, 2015, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2015, 11:42:34 PM
Someone asked me to do a like to like comparison between where I live in US and Ireland....you may not have read that part of the thread......that's why I interjected Castlebar into the discussion

Unfortunately the link is not that user friendly and requires a lot of heavy lifting...let me see if I can get you a better link.....but I absolutely stand by my statement and if I have time I will dig it our for you.  (My town and 3 towns directly abutting me did not have one murder in the past 10 years)

Oh I see.

'Someone asked you'.

And you picked Castlebar. A tiny sample of murders in Ireland to compare with your tiny sample of murders in the US.

And you provided no links. Just your memory.

And then you claimed your link to Massachusetts data showed something. But it didn't.

Jeeeessss, it is hard being an NRA nut.


Why don't you just argue that the octogenarians should have been packing heat like the other nut jobs?

LOL-here's the direct question from J70   

"What would the rate in Ireland be compared to the rate with your demographic in the MA or the US overall?"

And actually the link provides info (and further links) to the crime stats for almost every town in MA, just you have to go in town by town.

So if you think I'm bullshitting put your money where your mouth is-lets make a little bet.

If I can find 24 towns/cities in MA  (I said dozens) that have not had a recorded murder over the past 10 years you make a $250 contribution to the Berkley students. If I cant come up with 24  towns and cities-Ill make the donation

Time to put up or shut up

See the bit in bold? MA or the US????

MA's population is greater than the island of Ireland.

And you pick Castlebar and want to compare with some tiny town that you won't mention?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Thereby denying anyone the ability to compare anything.

Then you want a bet. But you want to bet on the gun death rate in the state with the strictest gun laws in the US. You are a complete joke.

How about I get to compare homicides with, say, Inisturk?

Or how about we pick a state more in line with your right wing views? Like Louisiana? Over 18 deaths per 100,000 people, per annum!

You are an embarrassment to Ireland. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 22, 2015, 02:39:30 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 09:30:54 PM
From what I've heard, Fox News are spinning this massacre as an "attack on faith" and down playing the racist aspect of it.

Shocked, I tell ya!

That is bullshit! They down played nothing and by the way, the f**ker did kill these people in a Baptist Church after all, there is a smidgeon of an attack on faith is there not? or are you just so liberal you are simply a clone that loves to attack Fox news?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 22, 2015, 03:15:06 AM
HS lads yous need chill out.....or not its class craic readin this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2015, 03:32:26 AM
LOL....You're dead right Joe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 22, 2015, 04:00:39 AM
Whitey, I agree there is a breakdown in community structure in America but wouldn't exclusively say its any one race. Take white people where I live they are for the most part all old, got into their lifestyles that they decided kids would adversely affect them. so they never bothered having any, that's a breakdown of a community as well. Weirdly those same people winge about immigration which is an economic necessity for economic growth and stability when the natural population growth drops off, although it does have it social problems to I admit.

I was talking about proper stats about Castlebar but anyway. I presume that you are in a suburb of Boston somewhere, where the demographic is all similar middle class people with similar incomes, similar backgrounds etc etc. However the only way that a place like that can exist is because they are part of a larger economic "eco-system" ie the Boston metro area. And for that "eco-system" to exist under the American economic model many different type of social and economic levels must exist. So therefore to say that the wider murder rate of MA is nothing to do with where you live is misleading at best. Castlebar is a town with many social classes and incomes bunched together and for this reason it is nonsensical to  statistically compare Castlebar with your boutique town in the Boston suburbs. If you want to compare it to Castlebar compare it with some middle class estate.

However I completely agree with you that gun control will be the solution to all the homicide problems in America it won't, no where near, as I said b4 the problem is rooted deep within American society, but guns undoubtedly exasperate the problem and control would help. A two pronged approach is needed.

And for FFS I wasn't saying to exclude the traveler death! I was making a point about how we disassociate from those within our community from even belonging to it. I know an American-Vietnamese guy who visited Belfast and got a right mouthful of abuse about being Oriental (or Asian for the politically correct but inaccurate term used in America). After asking him details it turned out that it occurred on the Donegal Rd so I was quick to disassociate myself from it and told him if he had went to one of "my areas" he wouldn't have had a problem. Total BS from myself and I am sure my explanation left him as confused as anything but it shows how we try to disassociate people from being in our community even tho they live in the same place, just as you appear to be doing with downtown Boston and many Irish people do about travelers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 22, 2015, 04:05:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2015, 03:32:26 AM
LOL....You're dead right Joe.

Aye Muppets some craic.....he brings out the worst in me sometimes but hes actually class craic.

Isnt that right Muppet! ;) BTW can you teabag lying down or do you have to be standing to get the teabag dipping affect?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2015, 04:13:47 AM
Quote from: stew on June 22, 2015, 02:39:30 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 09:30:54 PM
From what I've heard, Fox News are spinning this massacre as an "attack on faith" and down playing the racist aspect of it.

Shocked, I tell ya!

That is bullshit! They down played nothing and by the way, the f**ker did kill these people in a Baptist Church after all, there is a smidgeon of an attack on faith is there not? or are you just so liberal you are simply a clone that loves to attack Fox news?

No Stew, its not bullshit. Its been well documented over the last few days, the response of Fox News and even some of the Republican Party, including presidential candidates. The first day, this was all about an "attack on faith". Even after the murderer's motivations had been publicized, Fox still downplayed it. Jeb Bush waffled that no one could know his motivation (he quickly came out and called him a racist once the blowback started), as did Nikki Haley and some other leading GOP people. You can look this stuff up for yourself. Its not hard to find.

And by the guy's own statements, this was solely about race. Christianity or religion per se had nothing to do with it, any more than more than a century of terrorism against blacks in the south, including attacks on their churches, were part of a war on religion.

Its all part of their sick, deluded (or more accurately deceitful) war on christians/war on white men fantasy. Stir up white resentment to get support for the GOP big business elite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2015, 04:21:14 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 22, 2015, 04:00:39 AM
Whitey, I agree there is a breakdown in community structure in America but wouldn't exclusively say its any one race. Take white people where I live they are for the most part all old, got into their lifestyles that they decided kids would adversely affect them. so they never bothered having any, that's a breakdown of a community as well. Weirdly those same people winge about immigration which is an economic necessity for economic growth and stability when the natural population growth drops off, although it does have it social problems to I admit.

I was talking about proper stats about Castlebar but anyway. I presume that you are in a suburb of Boston somewhere, where the demographic is all similar middle class people with similar incomes, similar backgrounds etc etc. However the only way that a place like that can exist is because they are part of a larger economic "eco-system" ie the Boston metro area. And for that "eco-system" to exist under the American economic model many different type of social and economic levels must exist. So therefore to say that the wider murder rate of MA is nothing to do with where you live is misleading at best. Castlebar is a town with many social classes and incomes bunched together and for this reason it is nonsensical to  statistically compare Castlebar with your boutique town in the Boston suburbs. If you want to compare it to Castlebar compare it with some middle class estate.

However I completely agree with you that gun control will be the solution to all the homicide problems in America it won't, no where near, as I said b4 the problem is rooted deep within American society, but guns undoubtedly exasperate the problem and control would help. A two pronged approach is needed.

And for FFS I wasn't saying to exclude the traveler death! I was making a point about how we disassociate from those within our community from even belonging to it. I know an American-Vietnamese guy who visited Belfast and got a right mouthful of abuse about being Oriental (or Asian for the politically correct but inaccurate term used in America). After asking him details it turned out that it occurred on the Donegal Rd so I was quick to disassociate myself from it and told him if he had went to one of "my areas" he wouldn't have had a problem. Total BS from myself and I am sure my explanation left him as confused as anything but it shows how we try to disassociate people from being in our community even tho they live in the same place, just as you appear to be doing with downtown Boston and many Irish people do about travelers.

How many Irish people would truly give a $hit about travelers killed in fueds or drug dealers executed in the estates of West Dublin.....not too many I would guess (but I could be wrong). Rightly or wrongly many middle class Americans would have similar attitudes towards the murders which occur in inner city neighborhoods.

My point about Castlebar, which I don't think I made very eloquently BTW, was that you can have a town with zero (or close to zero) handguns yet 6 murders in 10 years. Then theres towns like the one I live in where, there are hundreds (if not thousand) of legally held firearms, yet not one murder during that same timeframe.  I live in a nice town, but by no means an ultra wealthy one.   

Guns aren't the SOLE  cause of the problem, they are a manifestation of the problem and all of the other issues need to be addressed too if an improvement is to be made to the situation .  I'm all for common sense gun control and severe penalties for those who break the laws. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2015, 05:18:03 AM
Fair fucks to Mitt Romney, BTW, for having the balls to come out and call for South Carolina to get rid of that f**king confederate flag. If only the rest of them were similarly brave, but I guess it's not easy when you're trying to sell your candidacy to the very knuckle draggers who revel in that flag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 22, 2015, 11:23:35 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 22, 2015, 04:05:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2015, 03:32:26 AM
LOL....You're dead right Joe.

Aye Muppets some craic.....he brings out the worst in me sometimes but hes actually class craic.

Isnt that right Muppet! ;) BTW can you teabag lying down or do you have to be standing to get the teabag dipping affect?

The square of the hy-mott-in-use is equal to the pair of the other two parts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2015, 05:41:14 PM
Don't usually agree much with Ron Christie (although he is very agreeable in his NPR work), but he talks the truth here about the GOP and the confederate flag:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/22/gop-needs-to-lead-fight-against-the-confederate-flag.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/22/gop-needs-to-lead-fight-against-the-confederate-flag.html)

If this campaign works, then maybe Mississippi will grow a collective brain (how can a state that is more than a third black still have the confederate flag in their actual state flag??)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 22, 2015, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2015, 05:41:14 PM
Don't usually agree much with Ron Christie (although he is very agreeable in his NPR work), but he talks the truth here about the GOP and the confederate flag:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/22/gop-needs-to-lead-fight-against-the-confederate-flag.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/22/gop-needs-to-lead-fight-against-the-confederate-flag.html)

If this campaign works, then maybe Mississippi will grow a collective brain (how can a state that is more than a third black still have the confederate flag in their actual state flag??)

Quick - arrest Bo and Luke Duke....

(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/153/1226207.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 22, 2015, 08:02:43 PM
http://www.thejournal.ie/chicago-cop-shooting-at-car-2173808-Jun2015/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/chicago-cop-shooting-at-car-2173808-Jun2015/)

A VIDEO OF a Chicago police officer appearing to open fire into a carload of unarmed teenagers troubled a former judge so greatly that he handed the video over to the media.

"I've seen lots of gruesome, grisly crimes," retired Cook County Judge Andrew Berman told Jonah Newman of the Chicago Reporter. Berman, who was a judge in a criminal case against one of the teens, added, "But this is disturbing on a whole different level."

The December 2013 video, embedded below, shows Chicago police officer Marco Proano allegedly shooting more than a dozen rounds at the moving vehicle full of six minors, according to civil complaint filed against the city of Chicago and several officers. The Reporter identified them as black.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 22, 2015, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 22, 2015, 08:02:43 PM
http://www.thejournal.ie/chicago-cop-shooting-at-car-2173808-Jun2015/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/chicago-cop-shooting-at-car-2173808-Jun2015/)

A VIDEO OF a Chicago police officer appearing to open fire into a carload of unarmed teenagers troubled a former judge so greatly that he handed the video over to the media.

"I've seen lots of gruesome, grisly crimes," retired Cook County Judge Andrew Berman told Jonah Newman of the Chicago Reporter. Berman, who was a judge in a criminal case against one of the teens, added, "But this is disturbing on a whole different level."

The December 2013 video, embedded below, shows Chicago police officer Marco Proano allegedly shooting more than a dozen rounds at the moving vehicle full of six minors, according to civil complaint filed against the city of Chicago and several officers. The Reporter identified them as black.

I see you conveniently forgot to mention that the car was stolen. You make it seem like they were off on a leisurely drive to Sunday School.

Still doesn't justify the officer shooting at them if they were not a threat but again if you put yourself in those sorts of situations..

"The Chicago Sun-Times reported last month that the FBI was investigating the shooting in which two black teens were wounded on Dec. 22 near 95th and La Salle. The shooting happened after Chicago Police officers curbed a stolen car packed with joyriders, the department said in a statement after the incident"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 22, 2015, 08:33:45 PM
So are these threads merging now or what lads?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25757.0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 22, 2015, 09:16:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2015, 04:13:47 AM
Quote from: stew on June 22, 2015, 02:39:30 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2015, 09:30:54 PM
From what I've heard, Fox News are spinning this massacre as an "attack on faith" and down playing the racist aspect of it.

Shocked, I tell ya!

That is bullshit! They down played nothing and by the way, the f**ker did kill these people in a Baptist Church after all, there is a smidgeon of an attack on faith is there not? or are you just so liberal you are simply a clone that loves to attack Fox news?

No Stew, its not bullshit. Its been well documented over the last few days, the response of Fox News and even some of the Republican Party, including presidential candidates. The first day, this was all about an "attack on faith". Even after the murderer's motivations had been publicized, Fox still downplayed it. Jeb Bush waffled that no one could know his motivation (he quickly came out and called him a racist once the blowback started), as did Nikki Haley and some other leading GOP people. You can look this stuff up for yourself. Its not hard to find.

And by the guy's own statements, this was solely about race. Christianity or religion per se had nothing to do with it, any more than more than a century of terrorism against blacks in the south, including attacks on their churches, were part of a war on religion.

Its all part of their sick, deluded (or more accurately deceitful) war on christians/war on white men fantasy. Stir up white resentment to get support for the GOP big business elite.

He picked probably the most famous Baptist Church in America to do his killing in, Religion was a small part of the equation but a part nontheless! That's a fact.

Fox are placing too much emphasis on this aspect of the killings but ffs look with your eyes man.

This country will never be right until someone can bring down the NRA ( I know a mostly right wing outfit ) These f**kers need to be taken down but no one has the moxy nor the mandate to do it and meanwhile at the ranch innocent people are getting killed right left and center, It's disgusting!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 22, 2015, 10:08:45 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 22, 2015, 08:33:45 PM
So are these threads merging now or what lads?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25757.0

Apologies, I should have put it on the other thread.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on June 23, 2015, 08:12:38 AM
One failed attempt at a shoe bomb and we all take off our shoes at the airport. Thirty-one school shootings since Columbine and no change in our regulation of guns." -John Oliver
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 23, 2015, 09:20:50 AM
Quote from: Declan on June 23, 2015, 08:12:38 AM
One failed attempt at a shoe bomb and we all take off our shoes at the airport. Thirty-one school shootings since Columbine and no change in our regulation of guns." -John Oliver

Two sentences that do as much as a PhD course in political science to explain the essence of politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2015, 11:21:27 AM
This could go on the Policing Thread or even the Same-Sex Marriage thread, given the type of arguments put forward by some.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201506/anti-intellectualism-is-killing-america (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201506/anti-intellectualism-is-killing-america)

Anti-intellectualism Is Killing America

The tragedy in Charleston last week will no doubt lead to more discussion of several important and recurring issues in American culture—particularly racism and gun violence—but these dialogues are unlikely to bear much fruit until the nation undertakes a serious self-examination. Decrying racism and gun violence is fine, but for too long America's social dysfunction has continued to intensify as the nation has ignored a key underlying pathology: anti-intellectualism.

America is killing itself through its embrace and exaltation of ignorance, and the evidence is all around us. Dylann Roof, the Charleston shooter who used race as a basis for hate and mass murder, is just the latest horrific example. Many will correctly blame Roof's actions on America's culture of racism and gun violence, but it's time to realize that such phenomena are directly tied to the nation's culture of ignorance.

In a country where a sitting congressman told a crowd that evolution and the Big Bang are "lies straight from the pit of hell," (link is external) where the chairman of a Senate environmental panel brought a snowball (link is external) into the chamber as evidence that climate change is a hoax, where almost one in three citizens can't name the vice president (link is external), it is beyond dispute that critical thinking has been abandoned as a cultural value. Our failure as a society to connect the dots, to see that such anti-intellectualism comes with a huge price, could eventually be our downfall.

In considering the senseless loss of nine lives in Charleston, of course racism jumps out as the main issue. But isn't ignorance at the root of racism? And it's true that the bloodshed is a reflection of America's violent, gun-crazed culture, but it is only our aversion to reason as a society that has allowed violence to define the culture. Rational public policy, including policies that allow reasonable restraints on gun access, simply isn't possible without an informed, engaged, and rationally thinking public.

Some will point out, correctly, that even educated people can still be racists, but this shouldn't remove the spotlight from anti-intellectualism. Yes, even intelligent and educated individuals, often due to cultural and institutional influences, can sometimes carry racist biases. But critically thinking individuals recognize racism as wrong and undesirable, even if they aren't yet able to eliminate every morsel of bias from their own psyches or from social institutions. An anti-intellectual society, however, will have large swaths of people who are motivated by fear, susceptible to tribalism and simplistic explanations, incapable of emotional maturity, and prone to violent solutions. Sound familiar?

And even though it may seem counter-intuitive, anti-intellectualism has little to do with intelligence. We know little about the raw intellectual abilities of Dylann Roof, but we do know that he is an ignorant racist who willfully allowed irrational hatred of an entire demographic to dictate his actions. Whatever his IQ, to some extent he is a product of a culture driven by fear and emotion, not rational thinking, and his actions reflect the paranoid mentality of one who fails to grasp basic notions of what it means to be human.

What Americans rarely acknowledge is that many of their social problems are rooted in the rejection of critical thinking or, conversely, the glorification of the emotional and irrational. What else could explain the hyper-patriotism (link is external) that has many accepting an outlandish notion that America is far superior to the rest of the world? Love of one's country is fine, but many Americans seem to honestly believe that their country both invented and perfected the idea of freedom, that the quality of life here far surpasses everywhere else in the world.

But it doesn't. International quality of life rankings (link is external) place America barely in the top ten. America's rates of murder (link is external) and other violent crime dwarf most of the rest of the developed world, as does its incarceration rate (link is external), while its rates of education and scientific literacy are embarrassingly low (link is external). American schools, claiming to uphold "traditional values," avoid fact-based sex education, and thus we have the highest rates of teen pregnancy (link is external) in the industrialized world. And those rates are notably highest where so-called "biblical values" are prominent. Go outside the Bible belt, and the rates generally trend downward (link is external).

As this suggests, the impact of fundamentalist religion in driving American anti-intellectualism has been, and continues to be, immense. Old-fashioned notions of sex education may seem like a relatively minor issue to many, but taking old-time religion too seriously can be extremely dangerous in the modern era. High-ranking individuals, even in the military (link is external), see a confrontation between good and evil as biblically predicted and therefore inevitable. They relish the thought of being a righteous part of the final days.

Fundamentalist religion is also a major force in denying human-caused climate change (link is external), a phenomenon that the scientific community has accepted for years. Interestingly, anti-intellectual fundamentalists are joined in their climate change denial with unusual bedfellows: corporate interests (link is external) that stand to gain from the rejection of sound science on climate.

Corporate influence on climate and environmental policy, meanwhile, is simply more evidence of anti-intellectualism in action, for corporate domination of American society is another result of a public that is not thinking critically. Americans have allowed their democracy to slip away, their culture overtaken by enormous corporations that effectively control both the governmental apparatus and the media, thus shaping life around materialism and consumption.

Indeed, these corporate interests encourage anti-intellectualism, conditioning Americans into conformity and passive acceptance of institutional dominance. They are the ones who stand to gain from the excessive fear and nationalism that result in militaristic foreign policy and absurdly high levels of military spending (link is external). They are the ones who stand to gain from consumers who spend money they don't have on goods and services they don't need. They are the ones who want a public that is largely uninformed and distracted, thus allowing government policy to be crafted by corporate lawyers and lobbyists. They are the ones who stand to gain from unregulated securities markets. And they are the ones who stand to gain from a prison-industrial complex that generates the highest rates of incarceration in the developed world.

Americans can and should denounce the racist and gun-crazed culture that shamefully resulted in nine corpses in Charleston this week, but they also need to dig deeper. At the core of all of this dysfunction is an abandonment of reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2015, 09:28:44 PM
Quality!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2015, 02:23:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.

Well if it's all true it's also incomplete

There are as many Fvckwit low information voters on the left as there are on the right

And the UNIONS have absolutely destroyed great cities such as Chicago

Career politicians have pandered for generations for Union votes, and that's  equally as abhorrent as big corporate money being pumped into every election cycle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 02:26:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.
The irony is you are looking through a lens of humanism, atheism, naturalism. This is the author of the blog:
Our Humanity, Naturally presents issues of life, society, and philosophy from the naturalistic standpoint of Humanism. A progressive philosophy of positive values without dogma and superstition, Humanism is becoming more prevalent among those concerned about anti-intellectual and dysfunctional trends in modern society. Our Humanity, Naturally applies Humanist concepts to a wide array of personal and social issues, demonstrating that there are pragmatic answers to many of the big (and little) challenges of contemporary life.

Your lens is just as guilty as everyone else is for spinning bias. Just because you say we are not biased, everyone else is not intelligent doesn't give it anymore weight than anyone's opinion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2015, 02:43:21 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 02:26:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.
The irony is you are looking through a lens of humanism, atheism, naturalism. This is the author of the blog:
Our Humanity, Naturally presents issues of life, society, and philosophy from the naturalistic standpoint of Humanism. A progressive philosophy of positive values without dogma and superstition, Humanism is becoming more prevalent among those concerned about anti-intellectual and dysfunctional trends in modern society. Our Humanity, Naturally applies Humanist concepts to a wide array of personal and social issues, demonstrating that there are pragmatic answers to many of the big (and little) challenges of contemporary life.

Your lens is just as guilty as everyone else is for spinning bias. Just because you say we are not biased, everyone else is not intelligent doesn't give it anymore weight than anyone's opinion?

Well (a) I did actually say it was MAINLY TRUE, so I am agreeing with the BULK of what he/she is saying

And (b) there's two sides to every story-your opinion, my opinion and the truth lies somewhere in between

And (C) what made Bill Clinton and Ronald Regan such great presidents, was their ability to compromise and meet folks in the middle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 24, 2015, 03:56:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.

By offering different explanations to events the History channel is making people think a little more outside the box. Isn't that a good thing?

I think the ancient astronaut theorists are on to something....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 24, 2015, 05:28:45 AM
Don't disagree with much of that however I got worried there when I seen everyone agreeing with it, whats Muppet gonna do when he wakes up and finds that no one is vilifying his post? Muppet needs a rant like we all need a debate so at the risk of being the devils advocate here goes...

First up religious fundamentalism has virtually nothing to do with climate change, his link to some obscure politicians arguing that God said in the Book of Genesis take what you want from the earth is as laughable as that is eejit of a politician is himself, well maybe not quite nut but its very funny. Climate change is to do with the release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere its an unfortunate consequence of our main energy source. Its directly proportional to consumption so if you want to link it to morals then Greed would have its part to play however most religions teach against this. American fundamentlists tho probably feckin teach greed TBF

Next he underplays the role of nationalism in the publics stupidity and again over plays the role of fundamentalism.

Also what wrong with having kids? Having weans means that society continues and reduces the requirement for immigration and all the social conflict and misunderstanding that comes with it.

Also to outline an unproven and abstract theory like the Big Bang as a given, in the same way as something as proven, relevant and accepted as evolution displays an attachment to the prevailing scientific fashion without any understanding of what it is, distinct whiff of dogma.

Also he talks about the needs of reason, but what is reason? To have reason some things need to be a given, in this case he is talking about America. But what is America? The land of opportunity, where anyone can make it, freedom of commerce, speech etc its all in the constitution. America is the constitution! So if he can't use the constitution as the base point for reasoning then what is he arguing for? A new constitution? It seems that is the case so he needs to outline what is base principles are, otherwise he is just arguing against society itself.

Over to you lads...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 24, 2015, 11:36:38 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 24, 2015, 05:28:45 AM
Don't disagree with much of that however I got worried there when I seen everyone agreeing with it, whats Muppet gonna do when he wakes up and finds that no one is vilifying his post? Muppet needs a rant like we all need a debate so at the risk of being the devils advocate here goes...

First up religious fundamentalism has virtually nothing to do with climate change, his link to some obscure politicians arguing that God said in the Book of Genesis take what you want from the earth is as laughable as that is eejit of a politician is himself, well maybe not quite nut but its very funny. Climate change is to do with the release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere its an unfortunate consequence of our main energy source. Its directly proportional to consumption so if you want to link it to morals then Greed would have its part to play however most religions teach against this. American fundamentlists tho probably feckin teach greed TBF

Next he underplays the role of nationalism in the publics stupidity and again over plays the role of fundamentalism.

Also what wrong with having kids? Having weans means that society continues and reduces the requirement for immigration and all the social conflict and misunderstanding that comes with it.

Also to outline an unproven and abstract theory like the Big Bang as a given, in the same way as something as proven, relevant and accepted as evolution displays an attachment to the prevailing scientific fashion without any understanding of what it is, distinct whiff of dogma.

Also he talks about the needs of reason, but what is reason? To have reason some things need to be a given, in this case he is talking about America. But what is America? The land of opportunity, where anyone can make it, freedom of commerce, speech etc its all in the constitution. America is the constitution! So if he can't use the constitution as the base point for reasoning then what is he arguing for? A new constitution? It seems that is the case so he needs to outline what is base principles are, otherwise he is just arguing against society itself.

Over to you lads...

Back to the point which I think the link above makes well. Imagine if a Healy-Rae or a Wallace brought a snowball into the Dáil and claimed climate change was fiction because of it? The sad reality is that this level of 'debate' is extremely widespread in the States and the UK and we are seeing more of it here. Witness Pearse Doherty recently asking on twitter if Noonan is really representing Irish people by putting the boot into Greece. Like it or not Noonan certainly is representing Ireland's interests. Any default by Greece costs us money. But that isn't quite what Doherty asked. He played to the heartstrings and ignorance, but never mentioned any financial consequences of not putting the boot into Greece, of which he is most certainly aware. He would be doing the same thing as Minister of Finance.

But then every party nowadays has spin doctors whose only required skill is to be able to mislead without outwardly lying. Many companies also have spokesmen who's only function is to do the same thing.

The freedom of the press is a phenomenal privilege we grant one sector for the community. One of the reasons we do this is so that they will hold the spin doctors and bluffers accountable. Remember the beginning of the financial crisis here? Most of the accurate up to date info on Ireland came from foreign news agencies such as Reuters. Why was that?

Snowball man should have been laughed out of office. That would have been a good start.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 02:26:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.
The irony is you are looking through a lens of humanism, atheism, naturalism. This is the author of the blog:
Our Humanity, Naturally presents issues of life, society, and philosophy from the naturalistic standpoint of Humanism. A progressive philosophy of positive values without dogma and superstition, Humanism is becoming more prevalent among those concerned about anti-intellectual and dysfunctional trends in modern society. Our Humanity, Naturally applies Humanist concepts to a wide array of personal and social issues, demonstrating that there are pragmatic answers to many of the big (and little) challenges of contemporary life.

Your lens is just as guilty as everyone else is for spinning bias. Just because you say we are not biased, everyone else is not intelligent doesn't give it anymore weight than anyone's opinion?

I am not even sure what you are trying to say here Iceman.

That NO opinions are valid because EVERYONE has some biases?

If so, that is clearly not the case. Facts are facts.  If you dismiss them for no valid reason,  your opinion is clearly less worthy. Using a snowball to argue against climate change is clearly an anti-intellectual, dishonest, cynical,  pandering stance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 02:11:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 24, 2015, 03:56:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.

By offering different explanations to events the History channel is making people think a little more outside the box. Isn't that a good thing?

I think the ancient astronaut theorists are on to something....

If you're ok with pseudoscience or simply don't know any better, I guess it's a good thing.

One would be forced to question your critical thinking skills and science education, however.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 24, 2015, 02:41:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 02:11:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 24, 2015, 03:56:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.

By offering different explanations to events the History channel is making people think a little more outside the box. Isn't that a good thing?

I think the ancient astronaut theorists are on to something....

If you're ok with pseudoscience or simply don't know any better, I guess it's a good thing.

One would be forced to question your critical thinking skills and science education, however.

And how do you know mermaids or aliens aren't real?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 03:01:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 24, 2015, 02:41:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 02:11:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 24, 2015, 03:56:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.

By offering different explanations to events the History channel is making people think a little more outside the box. Isn't that a good thing?

I think the ancient astronaut theorists are on to something....

If you're ok with pseudoscience or simply don't know any better, I guess it's a good thing.

One would be forced to question your critical thinking skills and science education, however.

And how do you know mermaids or aliens aren't real?

Oh, I would say there are or were possibly alien lifeforms if some kind out there somewhere,  given the size and age of the universe.

Their visits to earth and the existence of mermaids would require something along the lines of evidence to even begin to take seriously, however. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 04:24:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 02:26:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.
The irony is you are looking through a lens of humanism, atheism, naturalism. This is the author of the blog:
Our Humanity, Naturally presents issues of life, society, and philosophy from the naturalistic standpoint of Humanism. A progressive philosophy of positive values without dogma and superstition, Humanism is becoming more prevalent among those concerned about anti-intellectual and dysfunctional trends in modern society. Our Humanity, Naturally applies Humanist concepts to a wide array of personal and social issues, demonstrating that there are pragmatic answers to many of the big (and little) challenges of contemporary life.

Your lens is just as guilty as everyone else is for spinning bias. Just because you say we are not biased, everyone else is not intelligent doesn't give it anymore weight than anyone's opinion?

I am not even sure what you are trying to say here Iceman.

That NO opinions are valid because EVERYONE has some biases?

If so, that is clearly not the case. Facts are facts.  If you dismiss them for no valid reason,  your opinion is clearly less worthy. Using a snowball to argue against climate change is clearly an anti-intellectual, dishonest, cynical,  pandering stance.

Where do those facts come from J70 - when presented through a naturalist lens as the author of the blog claims to view the world through? Naturalism stands on the foundation that everything is matter and only matter. That our thoughts are merely chemical reactions in our brains. The naturalist universe is mindless - yet humans are self aware. The naturalist universe is meaningless, yet we perceive meaning everywhere. The naturalist universe is hopelessly deterministic (we're just slowly moving away from the original big bang, spinning atoms, simply matter), yet we are free.....

Looking at the world through a naturalist lens doesn't seem to carry much weight when the greatest naturalist minds are the first to point out that all of our ideas are nothing but the result of electro-chemical processes in our brains (which is very different from the laws of reason and logic). In the naturalist world - whatever is, is.

We all have bias -whether we admit to it or not. Facts are facts. But in a naturalist world those facts are meaningless. Just saying...


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 04:44:43 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 04:24:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 02:26:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.
The irony is you are looking through a lens of humanism, atheism, naturalism. This is the author of the blog:
Our Humanity, Naturally presents issues of life, society, and philosophy from the naturalistic standpoint of Humanism. A progressive philosophy of positive values without dogma and superstition, Humanism is becoming more prevalent among those concerned about anti-intellectual and dysfunctional trends in modern society. Our Humanity, Naturally applies Humanist concepts to a wide array of personal and social issues, demonstrating that there are pragmatic answers to many of the big (and little) challenges of contemporary life.

Your lens is just as guilty as everyone else is for spinning bias. Just because you say we are not biased, everyone else is not intelligent doesn't give it anymore weight than anyone's opinion?

I am not even sure what you are trying to say here Iceman.

That NO opinions are valid because EVERYONE has some biases?

If so, that is clearly not the case. Facts are facts.  If you dismiss them for no valid reason,  your opinion is clearly less worthy. Using a snowball to argue against climate change is clearly an anti-intellectual, dishonest, cynical,  pandering stance.

Where do those facts come from J70 - when presented through a naturalist lens as the author of the blog claims to view the world through? Naturalism stands on the foundation that everything is matter and only matter. That our thoughts are merely chemical reactions in our brains. The naturalist universe is mindless - yet humans are self aware. The naturalist universe is meaningless, yet we perceive meaning everywhere. The naturalist universe is hopelessly deterministic (we're just slowly moving away from the original big bang, spinning atoms, simply matter), yet we are free.....

Looking at the world through a naturalist lens doesn't seem to carry much weight when the greatest naturalist minds are the first to point out that all of our ideas are nothing but the result of electro-chemical processes in our brains (which is very different from the laws of reason and logic). In the naturalist world - whatever is, is.

We all have bias -whether we admit to it or not. Facts are facts. But in a naturalist world those facts are meaningless. Just saying...

I'm a firm naturalist,  and I find tremendous beauty, wonder, fulfillment and meaning in life and nature. Just because I don't believe there is a magical, supernatural being behind it all doesn't detract from anything. The beauty and majesty is inherent. Do you seriously look at a beautiful mountain vista or the ocean and think the pleasure you perceive is only there because the god you believe in supposedly created it? Similarly, what disadvantage am I at because we don't yet fully understand the mind, whereas you believe, presumably,  that there is a soul or whatever instilled there to make it work and give it "meaning"?

Nevertheless,  it still stands that the naturalistic approach i.e. science, is unparalleled for understanding nature i.e. stuff we can actually sense and that is tangible. We'd be in a world of shit if science was erased from history and existence. Religion and belief in gods.... not so much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 04:51:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 04:44:43 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 04:24:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 02:26:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.
The irony is you are looking through a lens of humanism, atheism, naturalism. This is the author of the blog:
Our Humanity, Naturally presents issues of life, society, and philosophy from the naturalistic standpoint of Humanism. A progressive philosophy of positive values without dogma and superstition, Humanism is becoming more prevalent among those concerned about anti-intellectual and dysfunctional trends in modern society. Our Humanity, Naturally applies Humanist concepts to a wide array of personal and social issues, demonstrating that there are pragmatic answers to many of the big (and little) challenges of contemporary life.

Your lens is just as guilty as everyone else is for spinning bias. Just because you say we are not biased, everyone else is not intelligent doesn't give it anymore weight than anyone's opinion?

I am not even sure what you are trying to say here Iceman.

That NO opinions are valid because EVERYONE has some biases?

If so, that is clearly not the case. Facts are facts.  If you dismiss them for no valid reason,  your opinion is clearly less worthy. Using a snowball to argue against climate change is clearly an anti-intellectual, dishonest, cynical,  pandering stance.

Where do those facts come from J70 - when presented through a naturalist lens as the author of the blog claims to view the world through? Naturalism stands on the foundation that everything is matter and only matter. That our thoughts are merely chemical reactions in our brains. The naturalist universe is mindless - yet humans are self aware. The naturalist universe is meaningless, yet we perceive meaning everywhere. The naturalist universe is hopelessly deterministic (we're just slowly moving away from the original big bang, spinning atoms, simply matter), yet we are free.....

Looking at the world through a naturalist lens doesn't seem to carry much weight when the greatest naturalist minds are the first to point out that all of our ideas are nothing but the result of electro-chemical processes in our brains (which is very different from the laws of reason and logic). In the naturalist world - whatever is, is.

We all have bias -whether we admit to it or not. Facts are facts. But in a naturalist world those facts are meaningless. Just saying...

I'm a firm naturalist,  and I find tremendous beauty, wonder, fulfillment and meaning in life and nature. Just because I don't believe there is a magical, supernatural being behind it all doesn't detract from anything. The beauty and majesty is inherent. Do you seriously look at a beautiful mountain vista or the ocean and think the pleasure you perceive is only there because the god you believe in supposedly created it? Similarly, what disadvantage am I at because we don't yet fully understand the mind, whereas you believe, presumably,  that there is a soul or whatever instilled there to make it work and give it "meaning"?

Nevertheless,  it still stands that the naturalistic approach i.e. science, is unparalleled for understanding nature i.e. stuff we can actually sense and that is tangible. We'd be in a world of shit if science was erased from history and existence. Religion and belief in gods.... not so much.
Maybe you can answer some of my questions or address my comments?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 24, 2015, 04:57:27 PM
But actually isn't it all only a creation of our mind? The latest physics says there is no matter only energy. Nothing is solid, nothing has shape, nothing has colour, its all just a bundle of atoms. Our senses sense the energy and helps our mind conceptualise it. The concept that our mind creates of this energy is the world as we understand it. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 04:51:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 04:44:43 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 04:24:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 02:26:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Unfortunately much of that article is true

Its all true!

And the internet and proliferation of niche news is only exacerbating the problem. You can get all of your news and opinion today filtered through whatever poticial or social lens you prefer and never be exposed to contradictory or opposing opinions. Jingoism and scientific illiteracy are rampant. I see it even in work colleagues who are otherwise fine intelligent people.

And its no accident that formerly impressive channels such as the Discovery Channel and History channel etc. have embraced this anti-intellectual approach in their offerings, with bilge about ancient aliens, big foot, mermaids, ghost hunters and so on and on.
The irony is you are looking through a lens of humanism, atheism, naturalism. This is the author of the blog:
Our Humanity, Naturally presents issues of life, society, and philosophy from the naturalistic standpoint of Humanism. A progressive philosophy of positive values without dogma and superstition, Humanism is becoming more prevalent among those concerned about anti-intellectual and dysfunctional trends in modern society. Our Humanity, Naturally applies Humanist concepts to a wide array of personal and social issues, demonstrating that there are pragmatic answers to many of the big (and little) challenges of contemporary life.

Your lens is just as guilty as everyone else is for spinning bias. Just because you say we are not biased, everyone else is not intelligent doesn't give it anymore weight than anyone's opinion?

I am not even sure what you are trying to say here Iceman.

That NO opinions are valid because EVERYONE has some biases?

If so, that is clearly not the case. Facts are facts.  If you dismiss them for no valid reason,  your opinion is clearly less worthy. Using a snowball to argue against climate change is clearly an anti-intellectual, dishonest, cynical,  pandering stance.

Where do those facts come from J70 - when presented through a naturalist lens as the author of the blog claims to view the world through? Naturalism stands on the foundation that everything is matter and only matter. That our thoughts are merely chemical reactions in our brains. The naturalist universe is mindless - yet humans are self aware. The naturalist universe is meaningless, yet we perceive meaning everywhere. The naturalist universe is hopelessly deterministic (we're just slowly moving away from the original big bang, spinning atoms, simply matter), yet we are free.....

Looking at the world through a naturalist lens doesn't seem to carry much weight when the greatest naturalist minds are the first to point out that all of our ideas are nothing but the result of electro-chemical processes in our brains (which is very different from the laws of reason and logic). In the naturalist world - whatever is, is.

We all have bias -whether we admit to it or not. Facts are facts. But in a naturalist world those facts are meaningless. Just saying...

I'm a firm naturalist,  and I find tremendous beauty, wonder, fulfillment and meaning in life and nature. Just because I don't believe there is a magical, supernatural being behind it all doesn't detract from anything. The beauty and majesty is inherent. Do you seriously look at a beautiful mountain vista or the ocean and think the pleasure you perceive is only there because the god you believe in supposedly created it? Similarly, what disadvantage am I at because we don't yet fully understand the mind, whereas you believe, presumably,  that there is a soul or whatever instilled there to make it work and give it "meaning"?

Nevertheless,  it still stands that the naturalistic approach i.e. science, is unparalleled for understanding nature i.e. stuff we can actually sense and that is tangible. We'd be in a world of shit if science was erased from history and existence. Religion and belief in gods.... not so much.
Maybe you can answer some of my questions or address my comments?

I thought I had.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 24, 2015, 05:33:40 PM
Iceman he would probably relate it to the computational theory of mind. Although various thought experiments can cast doubt on this and also.

In the world of metaphysics you are talking about monism v pluralism. Neither have been proved and likely never will.

The ultimate problem of monism is where actually is the mind, the ultimate problem of pluralism is also this, plus how is it attached to the body.

Cuconnacht put me onto this whacky stuff on your favourite thread.

Your also branching off onto another field of philosophy which is what is provable? Some things have to be taken as a given for anything to be fact otherwise nothing is provable. However the latest physics throws doubt on pretty much everything as we know it, so much so that anything and everything becomes possible.

Actually when you think about it the latest physics is kinda like Eastern philosophy..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 24, 2015, 05:36:57 PM
BTW Muppet you never answered half my points, not that I really cared that much.

But you can forget it, the way Iceman and J70 are going is much more interesting, a debate with no answer or solution, thats my kinda stuff! :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:49:05 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 24, 2015, 05:36:57 PM
BTW Muppet you never answered half my points, not that I really cared that much.

But you can forget it, the way Iceman and J70 are going is much more interesting, a debate with no answer or solution, thats my kinda stuff! :D

Thats my initial reasoning for calling out J70. Claiming fact and truth by looking at the world through a lens which itself admits there is no fact or truth.

I love all of this too OmaghJoe, expanding the "mind" discussing the physiology of things, the psychology behind our very beings and of course the theology. But in the case of my point with J70 God has nothing to do with my point. I just don't think the naturalist viewpoint has any more weight than any other...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 06:02:27 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

How did we get from anti-intellectualism in the US and its harmful effects to whether truth and meaning are even possible? :)

But, you're asking if, given my belief, as a naturalist, that the mind arose through an actual physical process such as natural selection, how can we know that any conclusions we draw on anything have any relevance to the real world?

I am far from a philosopher, but you have given me something to mull on, although I would initially posit that that question applies no matter what your belief is on the workings and creation/evolution of the mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 06:12:56 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:49:05 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 24, 2015, 05:36:57 PM
BTW Muppet you never answered half my points, not that I really cared that much.

But you can forget it, the way Iceman and J70 are going is much more interesting, a debate with no answer or solution, thats my kinda stuff! :D

Thats my initial reasoning for calling out J70. Claiming fact and truth by looking at the world through a lens which itself admits there is no fact or truth.

I love all of this too OmaghJoe, expanding the "mind" discussing the physiology of things, the psychology behind our very beings and of course the theology. But in the case of my point with J70 God has nothing to do with my point. I just don't think the naturalist viewpoint has any more weight than any other...

But assuming that we are all on a level playing field and that we do have some capability of perceiving "truth" and "facts", then how do you dismiss the accomplishments of science as no more valid than any other? We clearly live a physical existence (or is that up for dispute too in philosophical circles?), we can manipulate the world and be manipulated by it. If some California right wing politician claims that drought and earthquakes are in fact God smiting the people over gay marriage and abortion, is her pronouncement equally valid to the scientist who points out that they are merely natural phenomena and there is no correlation whatsoever between a location's political leanings and the natural disasters it suffers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 24, 2015, 06:41:33 PM
J70

Its not that our physical existence is up for debate, its more that how we understand it from our senses and conceptualise it with our mind is irrelevant to the physical reality.

Then again if our physical existence is just energy is it really physical?

But in saying that you have to take some of what we conceptualise as real, see what happen if you dont breath for example. So in that way we have to assume some things are a given, to deny well proven science (in terms of our perceived reality) would be idiotic.

However some nutter politician probably could argue those things using that outlook are valid but then he would also have to accept that the earthquake isnt really happening at all. Although physics says that all atoms are related to beach other and in equilibrium so shifts in energy of one atom could affect energy of another and the knockon affect could cause us to perceive something like an earthquake happening.

Its mad shit but who really feckin knows? However it highlights how most branches of science are individualistic in their approach and not holistic. Most branches of science only deal with things down a molecular level at best, only a few dip their toes into atomic theory and none go into quantum physics aside from those that deal with it directly and quantum physics doesn't even really know how what the relationship of atoms is to one another (i think on that last point, check it out if your really interested). So most branches of science limit themselves quite alot in this non holistic way, physical biology is a great example of this, sometimes ignoring how other parts of the body affect the rest in particular the mind/brain.

Anyway in 10years time physics could be saying all of this is irrelevant...we can't build our lives and society around something that is so fluid, we have to take somethings as a given.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 07:06:31 PM
I used to wonder when I was a kid if the world I sensed looked and felt identical to that the person sitting beside me sensed. Does green always appear the same, or do we all have a particular and unique set of properties by which we perceive reality? In other words what I might see as the colour green might be the same as what you see as blue,  but given that we are all taught that grass is green, we might be perceiving different colours but giving them the same name. If that makes sense....

But ultimately,  it, to me anyway, was just a pointless, academic philosophical exercise that can lead nowhere. Because if no one can see through anyone else's eyes, then why waste much time with it.

Occam's razor is a very good and successful starting point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2015, 07:33:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 07:06:31 PM
I used to wonder when I was a kid if the world I sensed looked and felt identical to that the person sitting beside me sensed. Does green always appear the same, or do we all have a particular and unique set of properties by which we perceive reality? In other words what I might see as the colour green might be the same as what you see as blue,  but given that we are all taught that grass is green, we might be perceiving different colours but giving them the same name. If that makes sense....

But ultimately,  it, to me anyway, was just a pointless, academic philosophical exercise that can lead nowhere. Because if no one can see through anyone else's eyes, then why waste much time with it.

Occam's razor is a very good and successful starting point.

Hmm...this has taken a very interesting direction.

I guess one question we should ask is where do we get the information that forms the basis of our opinions?

Lets say for example you think Fox News is biased (which it is btw) do you equally view the information from CNN or the NY Times as 100% unbiased?

Or, are you willing to ignore/deny the CNN/NY Times bias because, it validates or confirms a preset opinion or world view you have .



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2015, 08:04:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2015, 07:33:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2015, 07:06:31 PM
I used to wonder when I was a kid if the world I sensed looked and felt identical to that the person sitting beside me sensed. Does green always appear the same, or do we all have a particular and unique set of properties by which we perceive reality? In other words what I might see as the colour green might be the same as what you see as blue,  but given that we are all taught that grass is green, we might be perceiving different colours but giving them the same name. If that makes sense....

But ultimately,  it, to me anyway, was just a pointless, academic philosophical exercise that can lead nowhere. Because if no one can see through anyone else's eyes, then why waste much time with it.

Occam's razor is a very good and successful starting point.

Hmm...this has taken a very interesting direction.

I guess one question we should ask is where do we get the information that forms the basis of our opinions?

Lets say for example you think Fox News is biased (which it is btw) do you equally view the information from CNN or the NY Times as 100% unbiased?

Or, are you willing to ignore/deny the CNN/NY Times bias because, it validates or confirms a preset opinion or world view you have .

Whitey, there is nothing wrong with some bias. Everyone has an opinion and a background and personal circumstances which informs their worldview. Where Fox errs is in the distortion and lack of even handedness. Everything except Shep Smith is conservative opinion,  but they present it, for the most part, as news. I dont understand how people don't tire of the endless, repetitive drumbeat of Obama this, liberals that, war on christians and white men, and on and on. It's like the 2 minutes of hate from Orwell. Want to do a piece on climate change? Lets get Roy Spencer... again! Want to talk about cops killing black men? Lets get Mark Furman or that right wing black sheriff from Milwaukee. And they made themselves look ridiculous this week with the Charleston murders, but they don't care. Have to keep the old white resentful bastards watching!

CNN, I do not watch. Boring and sensationalist.
I like a guy on MSNBC on the weekend mornings, Steve Korniacki. It's calm rational detailed discussion,  no shouting or grandstanding.  The conservatives get to say their piece, same as liberals. But that is about it for cable news for me, except for the odd flick over to Fox to see how they are presenting the big story of the moment.

NY Times is great for hard news. I read some of the editorial stuff, but not usually. Editorially, they are leftish, just like WSJ leans right. Equivalent of Fox News they are not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 07:25:59 AM
Fair point J70  it is a little pointless, but sure is is not great criac discussing things that there is no right or wrong or even any answer to? Anyway I think at least this little exercise demonstrates that anything and everything is possible, we just ultimately don't have a clue. In fact the reality is we probably arent capable of understanding our reality. Do you think a suck cow is capable of thinking all this that we do? Course not, so are why we so arrogant to belief that we can understand why we are here and what here really is?

But moving on a little yes we do need a starting point for building a society that we can all springboard everything else from. So is the physical realm really a good place to start considering that society isn't really a physical thing in itself? Morals and Principles are surely the base point of any society, so these are what we should use. Tradition has been the distributor. but then what should the morals and principles be and more importantly who should be their keeper? Religion in practically every society in history has been the traditional keeper of these, however in modern society this would offend secularists. Constitutions and laws attempt to do something similar, but they dont govern how we think, feel and communicate with each other which is really where society is acted out, so who should hold these standards? Of late the press has by default been moving in on this territory as we have demonstrated in the past few pages, and we have pretty much agreed that this is a bad thing. So if not religion and if not the press, should it be Politicians? Lawyers? And if none of these then who? Who or what should be the keeper and driver of societies principles?

However I suspect we probably dont have an answer to that either, so lets move on and assume that our ultimate goal is society that is at peace and happy then the only way to achieve this is by working together and understanding our fellow man, not opposing and vilifying his belief system whether it be theist our naturalist rather we should be finding the common ground.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 07:38:17 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

Hah didnt get a proper chance to read that till now Iceman. Basically what you are trrying to say is "nobody knows nawhin, they only think they know something" ;D

On a side note I used to go to a quiz in Belfast in which there would be rather "colourful" team names one week there was a clinker:

"If Stephen Hawking is so f**king smart, why doesn't he get up and walk"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on June 25, 2015, 11:01:28 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 07:38:17 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

Hah didnt get a proper chance to read that till now Iceman. Basically what you are trrying to say is "nobody knows nawhin, they only think they know something" ;D

On a side note I used to go to a quiz in Belfast in which there would be rather "colourful" team names one week there was a clinker:

"If Stephen Hawking is so f**king smart, why doesn't he get up and walk"

Is that a clinker as in a peurile/offensive/unfunny/disturbing kind of clinker?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM
SHOCKED........"non partisan" PBS selectively edits "documentary" to protect liberal mouthpiece, Ben Affleck.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/business/media/citing-ben-afflecks-improper-influence-pbs-suspends-finding-your-roots.html?_r=0

First off..whos getting worked up? I find it both sad and ironic.

Secondly, weve been having a civil discourse about where people get their information from and the fact that every news source tends to have some degree of bias.

Do you not find it amazing and bewildering that they would let a high profile liberal like Ben Affleck essentially cherry pick what he wanted excluded?  PBS actually does....theyve suspended the show
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM
SHOCKED........"non partisan" PBS selectively edits "documentary" to protect liberal mouthpiece, Ben Affleck.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/business/media/citing-ben-afflecks-improper-influence-pbs-suspends-finding-your-roots.html?_r=0

I don't get why this is this a big deal? Are you saying that PBS would not have done the same for, say, Bruce Willis? It's not a political show in any shape or form.

Affleck agreed to be a subject for the documentary. Surely he, and any other subject, should have some say over the final product? It's not his fault one of his ancestors owned slaves, but I can understand his discomfort with it. You have little to be getting worked up over.

On a personal note, the wife will be disappointed if it's off the air.  She is big into genealogy and is an avid watcher of this show.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:12:28 PM
And besides,  if your issue is with PBS itself, have they not taken sufficient measures for your taste to prevent it happening again?

If you are trying to claim that PBS is not "non-partisan", you are going to need a hell of a lot more than one incident where a genealogy show agreed to save someone a little embarrassment over an ancestor.

Not sure why Affleck was embarrassed anyway. It's not his fault and no one cares.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 25, 2015, 03:22:29 PM
The Supreme Court has ruled in favour of the insurance subsidies that are a keyy part of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/us/supreme-court-affordable-care-act-health-subsidies.html

They are also due to issue a ruling on gay marriage that should be announced tomorrow or Monday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:49:03 PM
Quote from: dec on June 25, 2015, 03:22:29 PM
The Supreme Court has ruled in favour of the insurance subsidies that are a keyy part of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/us/supreme-court-affordable-care-act-health-subsidies.html

They are also due to issue a ruling on gay marriage that should be announced tomorrow or Monday.

Excellent news!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2015, 03:50:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM
SHOCKED........"non partisan" PBS selectively edits "documentary" to protect liberal mouthpiece, Ben Affleck.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/business/media/citing-ben-afflecks-improper-influence-pbs-suspends-finding-your-roots.html?_r=0

I don't get why this is this a big deal? Are you saying that PBS would not have done the same for, say, Bruce Willis? It's not a political show in any shape or form.

Affleck agreed to be a subject for the documentary. Surely he, and any other subject, should have some say over the final product? It's not his fault one of his ancestors owned slaves, but I can understand his discomfort with it. You have little to be getting worked up over.

On a personal note, the wife will be disappointed if it's off the air.  She is big into genealogy and is an avid watcher of this show.
[/q

First off..whos getting worked up? I find it both sad and ironic that a great station such as PBS could get maniopulated in this way

Secondly, weve been having a civil discourse about where people get their information from and the fact that every news source tends to have some degree of bias.

Do you not find it amazing and bewildering that they would let a high profile liberal like Ben Affleck essentially cherry pick what he wanted excluded? 

PBS actually does....theyve suspended the show
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2015, 03:52:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:49:03 PM
Quote from: dec on June 25, 2015, 03:22:29 PM
The Supreme Court has ruled in favour of the insurance subsidies that are a keyy part of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/us/supreme-court-affordable-care-act-health-subsidies.html

They are also due to issue a ruling on gay marriage that should be announced tomorrow or Monday.

Excellent news!!

Not sure if its excellent news, but its not unexpected.

Lets see how it all works out next year or the year after when most of the provisions kick in.....I will reserve my judgement until thenn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 03:50:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM
SHOCKED........"non partisan" PBS selectively edits "documentary" to protect liberal mouthpiece, Ben Affleck.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/business/media/citing-ben-afflecks-improper-influence-pbs-suspends-finding-your-roots.html?_r=0

I don't get why this is this a big deal? Are you saying that PBS would not have done the same for, say, Bruce Willis? It's not a political show in any shape or form.

Affleck agreed to be a subject for the documentary. Surely he, and any other subject, should have some say over the final product? It's not his fault one of his ancestors owned slaves, but I can understand his discomfort with it. You have little to be getting worked up over.

On a personal note, the wife will be disappointed if it's off the air.  She is big into genealogy and is an avid watcher of this show.

First off..whos getting worked up? I find it both sad and ironic that a great station such as PBS could get maniopulated in this way

Secondly, weve been having a civil discourse about where people get their information from and the fact that every news source tends to have some degree of bias.

Do you not find it amazing and bewildering that they would let a high profile liberal like Ben Affleck essentially cherry pick what he wanted excluded? 

PBS actually does....theyve suspended the show

This is not some newspaper or cable channel hiding or trumping up some political charge or scandal or crime.

It's a show about genealogy where a subject found out something embarrassing about their ancestry and requested it be withheld. The host,  I guess feeling some compassion for him, pulled some strings. Which broke the organizations rules. Which they have now addressed. And that's it! Evidence of liberal bias it is not. Had the same people at the same time refused to do it for Bruce Willis or Clint Eastwood or Dennis Miller, you might have something to complain about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2015, 04:05:46 PM
The confederate flag, Obamacare,  gay marriage to come... Should be a good week for Fox News and talk radio!   ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 25, 2015, 11:01:28 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 07:38:17 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"
Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

Hah didnt get a proper chance to read that till now Iceman. Basically what you are trrying to say is "nobody knows nawhin, they only think they know something" ;D

On a side note I used to go to a quiz in Belfast in which there would be rather "colourful" team names one week there was a clinker:

"If Stephen Hawking is so f**king smart, why doesn't he get up and walk"

Is that a clinker as in a peurile/offensive/unfunny/disturbing kind of clinker?

That would be it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 03:50:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM
SHOCKED........"non partisan" PBS selectively edits "documentary" to protect liberal mouthpiece, Ben Affleck.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/business/media/citing-ben-afflecks-improper-influence-pbs-suspends-finding-your-roots.html?_r=0

I don't get why this is this a big deal? Are you saying that PBS would not have done the same for, say, Bruce Willis? It's not a political show in any shape or form.

Affleck agreed to be a subject for the documentary. Surely he, and any other subject, should have some say over the final product? It's not his fault one of his ancestors owned slaves, but I can understand his discomfort with it. You have little to be getting worked up over.

On a personal note, the wife will be disappointed if it's off the air.  She is big into genealogy and is an avid watcher of this show.

First off..whos getting worked up? I find it both sad and ironic that a great station such as PBS could get maniopulated in this way

Secondly, weve been having a civil discourse about where people get their information from and the fact that every news source tends to have some degree of bias.

Do you not find it amazing and bewildering that they would let a high profile liberal like Ben Affleck essentially cherry pick what he wanted excluded? 

PBS actually does....theyve suspended the show

This is not some newspaper or cable channel hiding or trumping up some political charge or scandal or crime.

It's a show about genealogy where a subject found out something embarrassing about their ancestry and requested it be withheld. The host,  I guess feeling some compassion for him, pulled some strings. Which broke the organizations rules. Which they have now addressed. And that's it! Evidence of liberal bias it is not. Had the same people at the same time refused to do it for Bruce Willis or Clint Eastwood or Dennis Miller, you might have something to complain about.

I guess we'll agree to disagree then
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 04:18:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 03:50:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM
SHOCKED........"non partisan" PBS selectively edits "documentary" to protect liberal mouthpiece, Ben Affleck.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/business/media/citing-ben-afflecks-improper-influence-pbs-suspends-finding-your-roots.html?_r=0

I don't get why this is this a big deal? Are you saying that PBS would not have done the same for, say, Bruce Willis? It's not a political show in any shape or form.

Affleck agreed to be a subject for the documentary. Surely he, and any other subject, should have some say over the final product? It's not his fault one of his ancestors owned slaves, but I can understand his discomfort with it. You have little to be getting worked up over.

On a personal note, the wife will be disappointed if it's off the air.  She is big into genealogy and is an avid watcher of this show.

First off..whos getting worked up? I find it both sad and ironic that a great station such as PBS could get maniopulated in this way

Secondly, weve been having a civil discourse about where people get their information from and the fact that every news source tends to have some degree of bias.

Do you not find it amazing and bewildering that they would let a high profile liberal like Ben Affleck essentially cherry pick what he wanted excluded? 

PBS actually does....theyve suspended the show

This is not some newspaper or cable channel hiding or trumping up some political charge or scandal or crime.

It's a show about genealogy where a subject found out something embarrassing about their ancestry and requested it be withheld. The host,  I guess feeling some compassion for him, pulled some strings. Which broke the organizations rules. Which they have now addressed. And that's it! Evidence of liberal bias it is not. Had the same people at the same time refused to do it for Bruce Willis or Clint Eastwood or Dennis Miller, you might have something to complain about.

I guess we'll agree to disagree then

How can yous agree to disagree when yous are both making seperate points and ignoring the point the other makes?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2015, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 04:18:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 03:50:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM
SHOCKED........"non partisan" PBS selectively edits "documentary" to protect liberal mouthpiece, Ben Affleck.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/business/media/citing-ben-afflecks-improper-influence-pbs-suspends-finding-your-roots.html?_r=0

I don't get why this is this a big deal? Are you saying that PBS would not have done the same for, say, Bruce Willis? It's not a political show in any shape or form.

Affleck agreed to be a subject for the documentary. Surely he, and any other subject, should have some say over the final product? It's not his fault one of his ancestors owned slaves, but I can understand his discomfort with it. You have little to be getting worked up over.

On a personal note, the wife will be disappointed if it's off the air.  She is big into genealogy and is an avid watcher of this show.

First off..whos getting worked up? I find it both sad and ironic that a great station such as PBS could get maniopulated in this way

Secondly, weve been having a civil discourse about where people get their information from and the fact that every news source tends to have some degree of bias.

Do you not find it amazing and bewildering that they would let a high profile liberal like Ben Affleck essentially cherry pick what he wanted excluded? 

PBS actually does....theyve suspended the show

This is not some newspaper or cable channel hiding or trumping up some political charge or scandal or crime.

It's a show about genealogy where a subject found out something embarrassing about their ancestry and requested it be withheld. The host,  I guess feeling some compassion for him, pulled some strings. Which broke the organizations rules. Which they have now addressed. And that's it! Evidence of liberal bias it is not. Had the same people at the same time refused to do it for Bruce Willis or Clint Eastwood or Dennis Miller, you might have something to complain about.

I guess we'll agree to disagree then

How can yous agree to disagree when yous are both making seperate points and ignoring the point the other makes?

OK, I, unlike whitey, don't find it "amazing" that PBS omitted the piece. I've explained why!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 05:40:32 PM
Yeah its hardly "amazing" Whitey, and what is "liberal" got to do with it? Plus it was the shows editor J70 that let it be omitted not the station. He probably thought I'll keep this guy sweet and he could help my career, the station itself moved to address the broken rules, as you've pointed out.
Whitey you are looking at this from a political standpoint when its probably nothing to do with politics whatsoever. This habit of relating everything to politics is a cancer in America ATM & reminds me of some(a lot of) eejits in the wee6. Not calling you an eejit Whitey BTW but try not to fall into that trap.
Its disappointing yes, however it would only be amazing  & bewildering if the station defended it, but they haven't.

On a side note What a twat Affleck is, I dont know much about his politics but he is obviously a total victim of reactionary public opinion, but then he is a celebrity so he is a product of reactionary public opinion, so not really that surprising.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2015, 05:59:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 05:40:32 PM
Yeah its hardly "amazing" Whitey, and what is "liberal" got to do with it? Plus it was the shows editor J70 that let it be omitted not the station. He probably thought I'll keep this guy sweet and he could help my career, the station itself moved to address the broken rules, as you've pointed out.
Whitey you are looking at this from a political standpoint when its probably nothing to do with politics whatsoever. This habit of relating everything to politics is a cancer in America ATM & reminds me of some(a lot of) eejits in the wee6. Not calling you an eejit Whitey BTW but try not to fall into that trap.
Its disappointing yes, however it would only be amazing  & bewildering if the station defended it, but they haven't.

On a side note What a twat Affleck is, I dont know much about his politics but he is obviously a total victim of reactionary public opinion, but then he is a celebrity so he is a product of reactionary public opinion, so not really that surprising.

Like I said, it is no reflection whatsoever on Affleck that his ancestor was a slave owner. He doesn't espouse those views and he has nothing to be embarrassed about and he should have handled it much better.

On a similar note, the son of Strom Thurmond, Mr Dixiecrat himself, came out and totally repudiated his ancestors roles in a civil war to preserve slavery when calling for the confederate flag to be removed from the state capitol in South Carolina. That's how you handle these things.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2015, 06:11:33 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 07:25:59 AM
Fair point J70  it is a little pointless, but sure is is not great criac discussing things that there is no right or wrong or even any answer to? Anyway I think at least this little exercise demonstrates that anything and everything is possible, we just ultimately don't have a clue. In fact the reality is we probably arent capable of understanding our reality. Do you think a suck cow is capable of thinking all this that we do? Course not, so are why we so arrogant to belief that we can understand why we are here and what here really is?

But moving on a little yes we do need a starting point for building a society that we can all springboard everything else from. So is the physical realm really a good place to start considering that society isn't really a physical thing in itself? Morals and Principles are surely the base point of any society, so these are what we should use. Tradition has been the distributor. but then what should the morals and principles be and more importantly who should be their keeper? Religion in practically every society in history has been the traditional keeper of these, however in modern society this would offend secularists. Constitutions and laws attempt to do something similar, but they dont govern how we think, feel and communicate with each other which is really where society is acted out, so who should hold these standards? Of late the press has by default been moving in on this territory as we have demonstrated in the past few pages, and we have pretty much agreed that this is a bad thing. So if not religion and if not the press, should it be Politicians? Lawyers? And if none of these then who? Who or what should be the keeper and driver of societies principles?

However I suspect we probably dont have an answer to that either, so lets move on and assume that our ultimate goal is society that is at peace and happy then the only way to achieve this is by working together and understanding our fellow man, not opposing and vilifying his belief system whether it be theist our naturalist rather we should be finding the common ground.

I don' find the role religion played through history in shaping morality and society, for better or worse, offensive at all. Its a fact.

But today, I just don't think its necessary and, operating in our normal real world where we can actually sense things and make judgements and comparisons, its often detrimental.

This may be a bit simplistic and not fully thought through, for now, but don't society, laws and so on now provide a pretty structured framework built around the golden rule type of idea? Most people don't go around wondering "what would Jesus do?" before acting or saying something. You know what's right, what's wrong. You know what will hurt someone and what won't. Sometimes you'll get caught and pay the legal penalty or get box in the face in return. If we all turned into unbelievers, would things really change? Will Iceman decide to go out and hit someone over the head with a hammer because he is suddenly not concerned about divine judgement? Are all the people who break rules and laws and cheat and steal and murder unbelievers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 25, 2015, 06:19:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM
SHOCKED........"non partisan" PBS selectively edits "documentary" to protect liberal mouthpiece, Ben Affleck.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/business/media/citing-ben-afflecks-improper-influence-pbs-suspends-finding-your-roots.html?_r=0

I don't get why this is this a big deal? Are you saying that PBS would not have done the same for, say, Bruce Willis? It's not a political show in any shape or form.

Affleck agreed to be a subject for the documentary. Surely he, and any other subject, should have some say over the final product? It's not his fault one of his ancestors owned slaves, but I can understand his discomfort with it. You have little to be getting worked up over.

On a personal note, the wife will be disappointed if it's off the air.  She is big into genealogy and is an avid watcher of this show.

Of course it is a big deal. Affleck's embarrassment at his slave owning ancestor can now be used relentlessly to justify shooting unarmed black men, promote gun ownership and most especially, to justify every single idiotic thing that Fox News broadcasts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2015, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 05:40:32 PM
Yeah its hardly "amazing" Whitey, and what is "liberal" got to do with it? Plus it was the shows editor J70 that let it be omitted not the station. He probably thought I'll keep this guy sweet and he could help my career, the station itself moved to address the broken rules, as you've pointed out.
Whitey you are looking at this from a political standpoint when its probably nothing to do with politics whatsoever. This habit of relating everything to politics is a cancer in America ATM & reminds me of some(a lot of) eejits in the wee6. Not calling you an eejit Whitey BTW but try not to fall into that trap.
Its disappointing yes, however it would only be amazing  & bewildering if the station defended it, but they haven't.

On a side note What a twat Affleck is, I dont know much about his politics but he is obviously a total victim of reactionary public opinion, but then he is a celebrity so he is a product of reactionary public opinion, so not really that surprising.

Well Aagain I'll agree to disagree. Ben Affleck is one of the most outspoken left wing celebrities out there, so for the editor/producer to cave to his request is in my opinion an implicit attempt to maintain Afflecks credibility. Not that he owned or condoned owning slaves, but his detractors on the right would have had a field day with that tidbit.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2015, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 25, 2015, 06:19:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM
SHOCKED........"non partisan" PBS selectively edits "documentary" to protect liberal mouthpiece, Ben Affleck.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/business/media/citing-ben-afflecks-improper-influence-pbs-suspends-finding-your-roots.html?_r=0

I don't get why this is this a big deal? Are you saying that PBS would not have done the same for, say, Bruce Willis? It's not a political show in any shape or form.

Affleck agreed to be a subject for the documentary. Surely he, and any other subject, should have some say over the final product? It's not his fault one of his ancestors owned slaves, but I can understand his discomfort with it. You have little to be getting worked up over.

On a personal note, the wife will be disappointed if it's off the air.  She is big into genealogy and is an avid watcher of this show.

Of course it is a big deal. Affleck's embarrassment at his slave owning ancestor can now be used relentlessly to justify shooting unarmed black men, promote gun ownership and most especially, to justify every single idiotic thing that Fox News broadcasts.

Lol....I'll share that one at tonight's neighborhood  cross burning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 07:05:05 PM
Wow Muppet never fails to disappoint :D.... here was me thinking it was nothing to do with politics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2015, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 05:40:32 PM
Yeah its hardly "amazing" Whitey, and what is "liberal" got to do with it? Plus it was the shows editor J70 that let it be omitted not the station. He probably thought I'll keep this guy sweet and he could help my career, the station itself moved to address the broken rules, as you've pointed out.
Whitey you are looking at this from a political standpoint when its probably nothing to do with politics whatsoever. This habit of relating everything to politics is a cancer in America ATM & reminds me of some(a lot of) eejits in the wee6. Not calling you an eejit Whitey BTW but try not to fall into that trap.
Its disappointing yes, however it would only be amazing  & bewildering if the station defended it, but they haven't.

On a side note What a twat Affleck is, I dont know much about his politics but he is obviously a total victim of reactionary public opinion, but then he is a celebrity so he is a product of reactionary public opinion, so not really that surprising.

Well Aagain I'll agree to disagree. Ben Affleck is one of the most outspoken left wing celebrities out there, so for the editor/producer to cave to his request is in my opinion an implicit attempt to maintain Afflecks credibility. Not that he owned or condoned owning slaves, but his detractors on the right would have had a field day with that tidbit.

Based on what you said, your issue should be that the "right would have a field day" with something that is not his fault or condoned by him.

That aside, you have produced nothing to support your assertion that the show assented due to Affleck's politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 25, 2015, 07:36:40 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 07:05:05 PM
Wow Muppet never fails to disappoint :D.... here was me thinking it was nothing to do with politics

Interesting. What is the title of this thread?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2015, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 05:40:32 PM
Yeah its hardly "amazing" Whitey, and what is "liberal" got to do with it? Plus it was the shows editor J70 that let it be omitted not the station. He probably thought I'll keep this guy sweet and he could help my career, the station itself moved to address the broken rules, as you've pointed out.
Whitey you are looking at this from a political standpoint when its probably nothing to do with politics whatsoever. This habit of relating everything to politics is a cancer in America ATM & reminds me of some(a lot of) eejits in the wee6. Not calling you an eejit Whitey BTW but try not to fall into that trap.
Its disappointing yes, however it would only be amazing  & bewildering if the station defended it, but they haven't.

On a side note What a twat Affleck is, I dont know much about his politics but he is obviously a total victim of reactionary public opinion, but then he is a celebrity so he is a product of reactionary public opinion, so not really that surprising.

Well Aagain I'll agree to disagree. Ben Affleck is one of the most outspoken left wing celebrities out there, so for the editor/producer to cave to his request is in my opinion an implicit attempt to maintain Afflecks credibility. Not that he owned or condoned owning slaves, but his detractors on the right would have had a field day with that tidbit.

Based on what you said, your issue should be that the "right would have a field day" with something that is not his fault or condoned by him.

That aside, you have produced nothing to support your assertion that the show assented due to Affleck's politics.

He gave an explanation as to why he wanted it removed. You believe him, I don't.

Do you have a shred of evidence that he is telling the truth

In fact you yourself, (and me and many others on here) said that a slave owning ancestor is absolutely no reflection on Ben Affleck.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 08:47:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 25, 2015, 07:36:40 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 07:05:05 PM
Wow Muppet never fails to disappoint :D.... here was me thinking it was nothing to do with politics

Interesting. What is the title of this thread?

Well that settles it then, because Whitey posted it in this thread it must be about politics.

J70, you and I stand corrected, there's all the evidence you need.
:D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2015, 02:32:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2015, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 05:40:32 PM
Yeah its hardly "amazing" Whitey, and what is "liberal" got to do with it? Plus it was the shows editor J70 that let it be omitted not the station. He probably thought I'll keep this guy sweet and he could help my career, the station itself moved to address the broken rules, as you've pointed out.
Whitey you are looking at this from a political standpoint when its probably nothing to do with politics whatsoever. This habit of relating everything to politics is a cancer in America ATM & reminds me of some(a lot of) eejits in the wee6. Not calling you an eejit Whitey BTW but try not to fall into that trap.
Its disappointing yes, however it would only be amazing  & bewildering if the station defended it, but they haven't.

On a side note What a twat Affleck is, I dont know much about his politics but he is obviously a total victim of reactionary public opinion, but then he is a celebrity so he is a product of reactionary public opinion, so not really that surprising.

Well Aagain I'll agree to disagree. Ben Affleck is one of the most outspoken left wing celebrities out there, so for the editor/producer to cave to his request is in my opinion an implicit attempt to maintain Afflecks credibility. Not that he owned or condoned owning slaves, but his detractors on the right would have had a field day with that tidbit.

Based on what you said, your issue should be that the "right would have a field day" with something that is not his fault or condoned by him.

That aside, you have produced nothing to support your assertion that the show assented due to Affleck's politics.

He gave an explanation as to why he wanted it removed. You believe him, I don't.

Do you have a shred of evidence that he is telling the truth

In fact you yourself, (and me and many others on here) said that a slave owning ancestor is absolutely no reflection on Ben Affleck.

Now I'm confused. If it was not embarrassment,  why would Affleck not want that to come out?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 26, 2015, 03:54:01 AM
Bristol Palin, Sarah Palins daughter, and abstinence spokeswoman has just announced that she is pregnant with her second child and she is still not married.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 26, 2015, 04:49:03 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 05:40:32 PM
Yeah its hardly "amazing" Whitey, and what is "liberal" got to do with it? Plus it was the shows editor J70 that let it be omitted not the station. He probably thought I'll keep this guy sweet and he could help my career, the station itself moved to address the broken rules, as you've pointed out.
Whitey you are looking at this from a political standpoint when its probably nothing to do with politics whatsoever. This habit of relating everything to politics is a cancer in America ATM & reminds me of some(a lot of) eejits in the wee6. Not calling you an eejit Whitey BTW but try not to fall into that trap.
Its disappointing yes, however it would only be amazing  & bewildering if the station defended it, but they haven't.

On a side note What a twat Affleck is, I dont know much about his politics but he is obviously a total victim of reactionary public opinion, but then he is a celebrity so he is a product of reactionary public opinion, so not really that surprising.

Affleck is actually very articulate and although I disagree with him on a lot of things he puts himself out there as a celebrity who knows his subject matter, he is a full bore Democrat who tens to pick at the right and is usually right to be fair when speaking to the dark arts that the right employ..........  I just wish he could look at his party in the same light but thats not how it works in tinseltown!


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2015, 01:51:35 PM
Quote from: dec on June 26, 2015, 03:54:01 AM
Bristol Palin, Sarah Palins daughter, and abstinence spokeswoman has just announced that she is pregnant with her second child and she is still not married.

So much for promoting abstinence and no sex before marriage!

No doubt this will be another excuse for an "I'm being persecuted" whinge from her twit of a mother. Now THERE is the epitome of American anti-intellectualism!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2015, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

Been thinking a little about this. Like I said, I am far from a philosopher, and your "how do we know what we perceive as truth or fact or reality is in fact so" is not an easy question.

You brought it up to challenge my assertion that science and materialism is a more valid and vital lens through which to view the world than religion or any other world view. Your challenge is in the form that "how can we know what science tells us is true or fact?"

I'm not convinced that is actually relevant though. As Omaghjoe also said (I think!), we have to have a starting point, a baseline from which to operate in processing the world in which we live. We all operate on the basis that the things we sense are real (and yes, this can occasionally fail e.g. mental illness). If I drive the wrong way down a one way street or I fire a gun into a crowd, the chances are that a real person can get hurt. If I jump into a roiling current, I'm probably going to drown. If my child is sick, I take them to a doctor for treatment. If my child misbehaves, I correct them and try to teach them. If I don't treat my child, educate my child or teach it proper behaviour, bad outcomes are more likely. These decisions are all based on logic and accumulated experience and knowledge, both personal and societal, with no appeal to supernaturalism or mysticism required. And given that the same processes of thought and confidence in our perceptions have given rise to the development of spiritualism and religion, except without the physical evidence and process of confirmation and validation, why should they be elevated to the same plane of authority? Are you really saying that some nomad looking at the sky 3,000 years ago, wondering where it all started, and due to the limits of knowledge attributing it all to some unseen, magical, intelligent force, that his views should carry the same weight as that of modern day science where predictions are made and tested empirically? If you are saying that anything and everything is fair game and equally valid, then I don't know what to say to that. Good luck with the witch doctor I guess!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 26, 2015, 03:09:36 PM
Supreme Court rules that same sex marriage is legal nation wide.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2015, 03:25:46 PM
Quote from: dec on June 26, 2015, 03:09:36 PM
Supreme Court rules that same sex marriage is legal nation wide.

And the hits keep on coming! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 26, 2015, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2015, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

Been thinking a little about this. Like I said, I am far from a philosopher, and your "how do we know what we perceive as truth or fact or reality is in fact so" is not an easy question.

You brought it up to challenge my assertion that science and materialism is a more valid and vital lens through which to view the world than religion or any other world view. Your challenge is in the form that "how can we know what science tells us is true or fact?"

I'm not convinced that is actually relevant though. As Omaghjoe also said (I think!), we have to have a starting point, a baseline from which to operate in processing the world in which we live. We all operate on the basis that the things we sense are real (and yes, this can occasionally fail e.g. mental illness). If I drive the wrong way down a one way street or I fire a gun into a crowd, the chances are that a real person can get hurt. If I jump into a roiling current, I'm probably going to drown. If my child is sick, I take them to a doctor for treatment. If my child misbehaves, I correct them and try to teach them. If I don't treat my child, educate my child or teach it proper behaviour, bad outcomes are more likely. These decisions are all based on logic and accumulated experience and knowledge, both personal and societal, with no appeal to supernaturalism or mysticism required. And given that the same processes of thought and confidence in our perceptions have given rise to the development of spiritualism and religion, except without the physical evidence and process of confirmation and validation, why should they be elevated to the same plane of authority? Are you really saying that some nomad looking at the sky 3,000 years ago, wondering where it all started, and due to the limits of knowledge attributing it all to some unseen, magical, intelligent force, that his views should carry the same weight as that of modern day science where predictions are made and tested empirically? If you are saying that anything and everything is fair game and equally valid, then I don't know what to say to that. Good luck with the witch doctor I guess!
My point was J70 as a proclaimed firm naturalist you can't even understand or point out how you even came up with all of this. And you have to agree that it is meaningless. The result of electro chemical farts in your brain.
So either you change your world view and decide you are no longer a naturalist, because to be so and still argue so vehemently your points on every thread would seem pointless (especially on this one) OR you continue to be a naturalist and freely admit that everything you have to say carries no more weight than any of us....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2015, 05:44:54 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 26, 2015, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2015, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

Been thinking a little about this. Like I said, I am far from a philosopher, and your "how do we know what we perceive as truth or fact or reality is in fact so" is not an easy question.

You brought it up to challenge my assertion that science and materialism is a more valid and vital lens through which to view the world than religion or any other world view. Your challenge is in the form that "how can we know what science tells us is true or fact?"

I'm not convinced that is actually relevant though. As Omaghjoe also said (I think!), we have to have a starting point, a baseline from which to operate in processing the world in which we live. We all operate on the basis that the things we sense are real (and yes, this can occasionally fail e.g. mental illness). If I drive the wrong way down a one way street or I fire a gun into a crowd, the chances are that a real person can get hurt. If I jump into a roiling current, I'm probably going to drown. If my child is sick, I take them to a doctor for treatment. If my child misbehaves, I correct them and try to teach them. If I don't treat my child, educate my child or teach it proper behaviour, bad outcomes are more likely. These decisions are all based on logic and accumulated experience and knowledge, both personal and societal, with no appeal to supernaturalism or mysticism required. And given that the same processes of thought and confidence in our perceptions have given rise to the development of spiritualism and religion, except without the physical evidence and process of confirmation and validation, why should they be elevated to the same plane of authority? Are you really saying that some nomad looking at the sky 3,000 years ago, wondering where it all started, and due to the limits of knowledge attributing it all to some unseen, magical, intelligent force, that his views should carry the same weight as that of modern day science where predictions are made and tested empirically? If you are saying that anything and everything is fair game and equally valid, then I don't know what to say to that. Good luck with the witch doctor I guess!
My point was J70 as a proclaimed firm naturalist you can't even understand or point out how you even came up with all of this. And you have to agree that it is meaningless. The result of electro chemical farts in your brain.
So either you change your world view and decide you are no longer a naturalist, because to be so and still argue so vehemently your points on every thread would seem pointless (especially on this one) OR you continue to be a naturalist and freely admit that everything you have to say carries no more weight than any of us....

Meaningless in terms of what? In comparison to what?

Are you seriously saying that no one is ever right about anything?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 26, 2015, 06:39:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2015, 06:11:33 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 25, 2015, 07:25:59 AM
Fair point J70  it is a little pointless, but sure is is not great criac discussing things that there is no right or wrong or even any answer to? Anyway I think at least this little exercise demonstrates that anything and everything is possible, we just ultimately don't have a clue. In fact the reality is we probably arent capable of understanding our reality. Do you think a suck cow is capable of thinking all this that we do? Course not, so are why we so arrogant to belief that we can understand why we are here and what here really is?

But moving on a little yes we do need a starting point for building a society that we can all springboard everything else from. So is the physical realm really a good place to start considering that society isn't really a physical thing in itself? Morals and Principles are surely the base point of any society, so these are what we should use. Tradition has been the distributor. but then what should the morals and principles be and more importantly who should be their keeper? Religion in practically every society in history has been the traditional keeper of these, however in modern society this would offend secularists. Constitutions and laws attempt to do something similar, but they dont govern how we think, feel and communicate with each other which is really where society is acted out, so who should hold these standards? Of late the press has by default been moving in on this territory as we have demonstrated in the past few pages, and we have pretty much agreed that this is a bad thing. So if not religion and if not the press, should it be Politicians? Lawyers? And if none of these then who? Who or what should be the keeper and driver of societies principles?

However I suspect we probably dont have an answer to that either, so lets move on and assume that our ultimate goal is society that is at peace and happy then the only way to achieve this is by working together and understanding our fellow man, not opposing and vilifying his belief system whether it be theist our naturalist rather we should be finding the common ground.

I don' find the role religion played through history in shaping morality and society, for better or worse, offensive at all. Its a fact.

But today, I just don't think its necessary and, operating in our normal real world where we can actually sense things and make judgements and comparisons, its often detrimental.

This may be a bit simplistic and not fully thought through, for now, but don't society, laws and so on now provide a pretty structured framework built around the golden rule type of idea? Most people don't go around wondering "what would Jesus do?" before acting or saying something. You know what's right, what's wrong. You know what will hurt someone and what won't. Sometimes you'll get caught and pay the legal penalty or get box in the face in return. If we all turned into unbelievers, would things really change? Will Iceman decide to go out and hit someone over the head with a hammer because he is suddenly not concerned about divine judgement? Are all the people who break rules and laws and cheat and steal and murder unbelievers?

I wasnt saying that secular people are offended by the the church's past role rather that they would be offended if it was afforded this role nowadays

Why would you think a moral keeper is not necessary? Because we actually have one... Now to safe guard our morals we have the press calling for mock outrage at every turn? In a way the freedom they have been afforded (or demanded) coupled with the unquestionable power they wield is akin to the church's traditional role in Western society. The difference is the church's ultimate aim was to spread the word of God, although its own actions did not always match its teachings while the press's ultimate aim is to sell news particular in our capitalist system.

In my opinion at least we cannot rely solely on science to upkeep society as it doesnt actually focus on non-physical things (which is what society is) and is sometimes so fluid that we cannot use it as a complete basis anyway. As the source of knowledge of all things physical (if anything really is ;)) it should be a major contributor of course, but we cant be solely reliant on it.

I am pretty sure that no laws or constitution are directly based around the golden rule and something as vague as that needs legs. An obvious flaw in it would be for soldiers, who prepared to die and prepared to kill, so its a good start but needs further expansion. But it doesnt really answer my question about who should uphold this ideal and how should it be spread.

Tho I think you are basically saying like I said that tradition should be the distributor of morality, as it is at the moment and always has however what should be the keeper? certainly not the press IMO.

Its true that a box in the face or night in the slammer might stop us from doing wrong things but why is it considered wrong in the first place? Evolutionary social psychology? How we're made? or what we are taught? Or a combo of the three? IMO opinion how we behave and interact is from the bottom up, from inside us. Our laws attempt to implement these standards that are deep within us from a top down approach but they dont govern our actions.

Also nothing can really explain some standards we have like:
Why do we feel bad when we do wrong to others even tho it may have been for selfish reasons?
Why is there good and bad in the first place?
Why are we still tempted by bad things even tho we know its wrong and their consequences?

Anyway this has diverged from society to a personal level, but then again I guess that is where society is ultimately held.


As regards Iceman, you never know.... he is into UFC afterall ;D (joke Iceman!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 26, 2015, 07:05:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2015, 05:44:54 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 26, 2015, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2015, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

Been thinking a little about this. Like I said, I am far from a philosopher, and your "how do we know what we perceive as truth or fact or reality is in fact so" is not an easy question.

You brought it up to challenge my assertion that science and materialism is a more valid and vital lens through which to view the world than religion or any other world view. Your challenge is in the form that "how can we know what science tells us is true or fact?"

I'm not convinced that is actually relevant though. As Omaghjoe also said (I think!), we have to have a starting point, a baseline from which to operate in processing the world in which we live. We all operate on the basis that the things we sense are real (and yes, this can occasionally fail e.g. mental illness). If I drive the wrong way down a one way street or I fire a gun into a crowd, the chances are that a real person can get hurt. If I jump into a roiling current, I'm probably going to drown. If my child is sick, I take them to a doctor for treatment. If my child misbehaves, I correct them and try to teach them. If I don't treat my child, educate my child or teach it proper behaviour, bad outcomes are more likely. These decisions are all based on logic and accumulated experience and knowledge, both personal and societal, with no appeal to supernaturalism or mysticism required. And given that the same processes of thought and confidence in our perceptions have given rise to the development of spiritualism and religion, except without the physical evidence and process of confirmation and validation, why should they be elevated to the same plane of authority? Are you really saying that some nomad looking at the sky 3,000 years ago, wondering where it all started, and due to the limits of knowledge attributing it all to some unseen, magical, intelligent force, that his views should carry the same weight as that of modern day science where predictions are made and tested empirically? If you are saying that anything and everything is fair game and equally valid, then I don't know what to say to that. Good luck with the witch doctor I guess!
My point was J70 as a proclaimed firm naturalist you can't even understand or point out how you even came up with all of this. And you have to agree that it is meaningless. The result of electro chemical farts in your brain.
So either you change your world view and decide you are no longer a naturalist, because to be so and still argue so vehemently your points on every thread would seem pointless (especially on this one) OR you continue to be a naturalist and freely admit that everything you have to say carries no more weight than any of us....

Meaningless in terms of what? In comparison to what?

Are you seriously saying that no one is ever right about anything?


Yeah I did say that J70 but I think you missed that point that I was trying to make with it

We have to have a baseline to start from so we should concentrate on what we agree on to form that base-point, not denigrate belief systems that go deeper than that the point of agreement.

Theist believe there is a God, which they say can't be physically proved to exist.
Naturalist say there is only the physical but then the deepest roots of this says that nothing is actually physical anyway.

Both are flawed for want of a better word, the most likely scenario is that we are incapable of understanding the here and now, so why pick holes in opposing methods of understanding this great unknown, esp when it only causes division. We have to bring them both to the level where they merge and work from there. No point going into where they diverge as it is mostly irrelevant to how we interact, but we should be aware of and understanding of the belief system that each has, esp when we have frequent interactions with someone from that belief system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 26, 2015, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2015, 05:44:54 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 26, 2015, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2015, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

Been thinking a little about this. Like I said, I am far from a philosopher, and your "how do we know what we perceive as truth or fact or reality is in fact so" is not an easy question.

You brought it up to challenge my assertion that science and materialism is a more valid and vital lens through which to view the world than religion or any other world view. Your challenge is in the form that "how can we know what science tells us is true or fact?"

I'm not convinced that is actually relevant though. As Omaghjoe also said (I think!), we have to have a starting point, a baseline from which to operate in processing the world in which we live. We all operate on the basis that the things we sense are real (and yes, this can occasionally fail e.g. mental illness). If I drive the wrong way down a one way street or I fire a gun into a crowd, the chances are that a real person can get hurt. If I jump into a roiling current, I'm probably going to drown. If my child is sick, I take them to a doctor for treatment. If my child misbehaves, I correct them and try to teach them. If I don't treat my child, educate my child or teach it proper behaviour, bad outcomes are more likely. These decisions are all based on logic and accumulated experience and knowledge, both personal and societal, with no appeal to supernaturalism or mysticism required. And given that the same processes of thought and confidence in our perceptions have given rise to the development of spiritualism and religion, except without the physical evidence and process of confirmation and validation, why should they be elevated to the same plane of authority? Are you really saying that some nomad looking at the sky 3,000 years ago, wondering where it all started, and due to the limits of knowledge attributing it all to some unseen, magical, intelligent force, that his views should carry the same weight as that of modern day science where predictions are made and tested empirically? If you are saying that anything and everything is fair game and equally valid, then I don't know what to say to that. Good luck with the witch doctor I guess!
My point was J70 as a proclaimed firm naturalist you can't even understand or point out how you even came up with all of this. And you have to agree that it is meaningless. The result of electro chemical farts in your brain.
So either you change your world view and decide you are no longer a naturalist, because to be so and still argue so vehemently your points on every thread would seem pointless (especially on this one) OR you continue to be a naturalist and freely admit that everything you have to say carries no more weight than any of us....

Meaningless in terms of what? In comparison to what?

Are you seriously saying that no one is ever right about anything?
In the naturalist world everything just is. Thats it.
It just is.

Maybe our understanding of naturalism is different. But I dispute you are really a naturalist. Maybe a cultural naturalist. a naturalist with a 'but'... ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 26, 2015, 11:26:31 PM
It's the confusion of the question of how with the question of why. The naturalist doesn't assert there is nothing but the material world. He asserts that the material world is all we KNOW and (at least partially) understand - the how of things. He asserts that we do not (yet?) possess the capability to understand the reason(s) for the existence if the universe, if there are any - the why of things.

The theist attributes both the how and the why to supernatural (i.e. non naturalist) intervention. But there is no basis at all in anything we KNOW for those assertions. He might as well speculate that it's all down to th cosmic teapot.

That which is asserted without proof may clearly be rejected without proof or even comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 26, 2015, 11:39:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 26, 2015, 11:26:31 PM
It's the confusion of the question of how with the question of why. The naturalist doesn't assert there is nothing but the material world. He asserts that the material world is all we KNOW and (at least partially) understand - the how of things. He asserts that we do not (yet?) possess the capability to understand the reason(s) for the existence if the universe, if there are any - the why of things.

The theist attributes both the how and the why to supernatural (i.e. non naturalist) intervention. But there is no basis at all in anything we KNOW for those assertions. He might as well speculate that it's all down to th cosmic teapot.

That which is asserted without proof may clearly be rejected without proof or even comment.


Hardy!!!!!

Whats goin on??

Have you turned philosopher?

Welcome, welcome..... although we appear to have lost Muppet

I'll get back to you later
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2015, 11:47:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 26, 2015, 11:39:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 26, 2015, 11:26:31 PM
It's the confusion of the question of how with the question of why. The naturalist doesn't assert there is nothing but the material world. He asserts that the material world is all we KNOW and (at least partially) understand - the how of things. He asserts that we do not (yet?) possess the capability to understand the reason(s) for the existence if the universe, if there are any - the why of things.

The theist attributes both the how and the why to supernatural (i.e. non naturalist) intervention. But there is no basis at all in anything we KNOW for those assertions. He might as well speculate that it's all down to th cosmic teapot.

That which is asserted without proof may clearly be rejected without proof or even comment.


Hardy!!!!!

Whats goin on??

Have you turned philosopher?

Welcome, welcome..... although we appear to have lost Muppet

I'll get back to you later

I am not interesting in being so easily labeled, put in a pigeon hole and then dismantled.

I save my philosophy for around pint number 6, when everything is so much clearer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 12:01:40 AM
Ah the old ego Muppet, it can get the better of the best of us. Repent! Repent! ;D

You don't even have to use your own philosophy Muppet, you don't even have to have one, we arent trying to out do each other. I am just trying to demonstrate a few things, open people's mind a little more. Anyway this shit is way to impractical to use as your own personal philosophy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 27, 2015, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 12:01:40 AM
Ah the old ego Muppet, it can get the better of the best of us. Repent! Repent! ;D

You don't even have to use your own philosophy Muppet, you don't even have to have one, we arent trying to out do each other. I am just trying to demonstrate a few things, open people's mind a little more. Anyway this shit is way to impractical to use as your own personal philosophy.

And you point to my ego?

Joe you are simply a contrarian. No matter what anyone posts you gently (most of the time) disagree and put up a smilie. What is the point?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 07:18:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2015, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 12:01:40 AM
Ah the old ego Muppet, it can get the better of the best of us. Repent! Repent! ;D

You don't even have to use your own philosophy Muppet, you don't even have to have one, we arent trying to out do each other. I am just trying to demonstrate a few things, open people's mind a little more. Anyway this shit is way to impractical to use as your own personal philosophy.

And you point to my ego?

Joe you are simply a contrarian. No matter what anyone posts you gently (most of the time) disagree and put up a smilie. What is the point?

I don't believe in taking a view point based on an initial or gut reaction (apart from sports, music or food) and then working backwards with facts to try and prove my viewpoint.

But to answer your question it is to gain information and further understanding of subject areas and have a bit o craic. You?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 27, 2015, 08:09:10 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 07:18:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2015, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 12:01:40 AM
Ah the old ego Muppet, it can get the better of the best of us. Repent! Repent! ;D

You don't even have to use your own philosophy Muppet, you don't even have to have one, we arent trying to out do each other. I am just trying to demonstrate a few things, open people's mind a little more. Anyway this shit is way to impractical to use as your own personal philosophy.

And you point to my ego?

Joe you are simply a contrarian. No matter what anyone posts you gently (most of the time) disagree and put up a smilie. What is the point?

I don't believe in taking a view point based on an initial or gut reaction (apart from sports, music or food) and then working backwards with facts to try and prove my viewpoint.

But to answer your question it is to gain information and further understanding of subject areas and have a bit o craic. You?

I don't believe in blindly following dogma and working backwards with facts to try to justify what I have been told to believe.

I enjoy these debates, though much to my surprise my style of posting obviously wind somes people up. It is not deliberate (usually  ;)), as when I have the same discussion at work or in the pub, this doesn't appear to happen. It probably reflects my inability to articulate my thoughts properly in writing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 08:46:27 AM
Quote from: Hardy on June 26, 2015, 11:26:31 PM
It's the confusion of the question of how with the question of why. The naturalist doesn't assert there is nothing but the material world. He asserts that the material world is all we KNOW and (at least partially) understand - the how of things. He asserts that we do not (yet?) possess the capability to understand the reason(s) for the existence if the universe, if there are any - the why of things.

The theist attributes both the how and the why to supernatural (i.e. non naturalist) intervention. But there is no basis at all in anything we KNOW for those assertions. He might as well speculate that it's all down to th cosmic teapot.

That which is asserted without proof may clearly be rejected without proof or even comment.

I thought that's exactly what naturalists believed in terms of philosophy at least, that there is only the material? But as I have pointed out earlier the material itself has been cast into doubt by quantum physics, which theorises that there is in fact no material. The physical realm is just how we perceive things but that in itself is just an illusion formed by our minds, which begs the question: Are the traditional nonphysical entities we have actually the only real things we have since the physical is just an illusion?

But anyway onward to your point and indeed you raise a good one about the How and Why. Maybe that just another way of understanding the physical (how?) and the nonphysical (why?) is it? Or at least is that the question that both fields are trying to answer?

To a practical level I find both fields ( if they can even be called that) quite compatible, one deals with the physical realm the other deals with non physical. The problems arise when we attempt to apply them to each other, which I believe you are trying to do. Theists beliefs are based on faith not proof and certainly not physical proof. There are of course theists who are creationists but a theist in the strict sense of the word would not try to tie his belief to the material world and if he did, he would reform his belief based on physical evidence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 27, 2015, 12:37:31 PM
We should pay great attention to the questions philosophers ask. We should pay no attention to their answers.

Somebody said that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 27, 2015, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 26, 2015, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2015, 05:44:54 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 26, 2015, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2015, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 24, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Stephen Hawkings writes:
"Provided the universe has evolved in a regular way, we might expect that the reasoning abilities that natural selection has given us would be valid....and so would not lead us to the wrong conclusions"

Purely on materialistic grounds, this argument and yours J70 is entirely circular. In a naturalist universe in which nothing exists but matter, our minds would reducible to brain chemistry. Our thoughts, ideas even our reasoning would be reducible to deterministic physical processes. So when Hawkings (surely regarded as one of the greats of naturalism) appeals to the theory of evolution, random mutation and natural selection to explain our ability to think, reason and draw accurate conclusions, he appeals o a theory that is itself the result of physical processes How can you or Hawkings or any naturalist know that your ideas are true??

If our ideas are just the biological product of deterministic material laws and natural processes, biochemical excretions and whatnot, why does anything you have to say about anything have any meaning? Or any truth?

If you are really a firm naturalist surely you agree?

Been thinking a little about this. Like I said, I am far from a philosopher, and your "how do we know what we perceive as truth or fact or reality is in fact so" is not an easy question.

You brought it up to challenge my assertion that science and materialism is a more valid and vital lens through which to view the world than religion or any other world view. Your challenge is in the form that "how can we know what science tells us is true or fact?"

I'm not convinced that is actually relevant though. As Omaghjoe also said (I think!), we have to have a starting point, a baseline from which to operate in processing the world in which we live. We all operate on the basis that the things we sense are real (and yes, this can occasionally fail e.g. mental illness). If I drive the wrong way down a one way street or I fire a gun into a crowd, the chances are that a real person can get hurt. If I jump into a roiling current, I'm probably going to drown. If my child is sick, I take them to a doctor for treatment. If my child misbehaves, I correct them and try to teach them. If I don't treat my child, educate my child or teach it proper behaviour, bad outcomes are more likely. These decisions are all based on logic and accumulated experience and knowledge, both personal and societal, with no appeal to supernaturalism or mysticism required. And given that the same processes of thought and confidence in our perceptions have given rise to the development of spiritualism and religion, except without the physical evidence and process of confirmation and validation, why should they be elevated to the same plane of authority? Are you really saying that some nomad looking at the sky 3,000 years ago, wondering where it all started, and due to the limits of knowledge attributing it all to some unseen, magical, intelligent force, that his views should carry the same weight as that of modern day science where predictions are made and tested empirically? If you are saying that anything and everything is fair game and equally valid, then I don't know what to say to that. Good luck with the witch doctor I guess!
My point was J70 as a proclaimed firm naturalist you can't even understand or point out how you even came up with all of this. And you have to agree that it is meaningless. The result of electro chemical farts in your brain.
So either you change your world view and decide you are no longer a naturalist, because to be so and still argue so vehemently your points on every thread would seem pointless (especially on this one) OR you continue to be a naturalist and freely admit that everything you have to say carries no more weight than any of us....

Meaningless in terms of what? In comparison to what?

Are you seriously saying that no one is ever right about anything?
In the naturalist world everything just is. Thats it.
It just is.

Maybe our understanding of naturalism is different. But I dispute you are really a naturalist. Maybe a cultural naturalist. a naturalist with a 'but'... ;)

"Just is" as in its not a figment or creation of the mind of some magical being?

"Just is" as in there is not some other place or "reward" toward which we are working?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 06:21:50 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 27, 2015, 12:37:31 PM
We should pay great attention to the questions philosophers ask. We should pay no attention to their answers.

Somebody said that.

Oh well, it was nice while it lasted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 06:50:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2015, 08:09:10 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 07:18:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2015, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 12:01:40 AM
Ah the old ego Muppet, it can get the better of the best of us. Repent! Repent! ;D

You don't even have to use your own philosophy Muppet, you don't even have to have one, we arent trying to out do each other. I am just trying to demonstrate a few things, open people's mind a little more. Anyway this shit is way to impractical to use as your own personal philosophy.

And you point to my ego?

Joe you are simply a contrarian. No matter what anyone posts you gently (most of the time) disagree and put up a smilie. What is the point?

I don't believe in taking a view point based on an initial or gut reaction (apart from sports, music or food) and then working backwards with facts to try and prove my viewpoint.

But to answer your question it is to gain information and further understanding of subject areas and have a bit o craic. You?

I don't believe in blindly following dogma and working backwards with facts to try to justify what I have been told to believe.

I enjoy these debates, though much to my surprise my style of posting obviously wind somes people up. It is not deliberate (usually  ;)), as when I have the same discussion at work or in the pub, this doesn't appear to happen. It probably reflects my inability to articulate my thoughts properly in writing.

And thats fine if you want to use that position as your base position, although if you read my posts on the past few pages that in this great unknown where our understanding is constantly changing we have to use something as a base, something as a given, which is why many people use the stability and untouchable nature of faith as that base. So at the very least you have to open to the idea that some/alot of people do work with faith and dogma, and that to call out the differences in your base position every time you disagree with them even tho you may have many other outlooks similar will not be constructive. We have to use what we do agree on to create resolutions, not what we disagree on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 27, 2015, 09:47:13 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 06:50:25 PM
And thats fine if you want to use that position as your base position, although if you read my posts on the past few pages that in this great unknown where our understanding is constantly changing we have to use something as a base, something as a given, which is why many people use the stability and untouchable nature of faith as that base. So at the very least you have to open to the idea that some/alot of people do work with faith and dogma, and that to call out the differences in your base position every time you disagree with them even tho you may have many other outlooks similar will not be constructive. We have to use what we do agree on to create resolutions, not what we disagree on.

See, this is my problem.

My understanding may change from time to time, but it requires a well made point.

What is yours?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 28, 2015, 12:20:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2015, 09:47:13 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 06:50:25 PM
And thats fine if you want to use that position as your base position, although if you read my posts on the past few pages that in this great unknown where our understanding is constantly changing we have to use something as a base, something as a given, which is why many people use the stability and untouchable nature of faith as that base. So at the very least you have to open to the idea that some/alot of people do work with faith and dogma, and that to call out the differences in your base position every time you disagree with them even tho you may have many other outlooks similar will not be constructive. We have to use what we do agree on to create resolutions, not what we disagree on.

See, this is my problem.

My understanding may change from time to time, but it requires a well made point.

What is yours?

Oh I don't have any problem, I recognise that different people have different points of view and come to an understanding of the world from different places so I try to reach an understanding with them based on common ground. I wouldn't discuss sausages with a jew or whiskeys with a tee totaler, I wouldn't get anywhere and probably likely offend them.

My understanding is changing constantly of both the physical and nonphysical. I absolutely revel in new information and considering new takes on things.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 28, 2015, 06:05:03 AM
Has this been on the US news yet?

http://trendingstylist.com/police-hunting-for-black/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 28, 2015, 06:05:03 AM
Has this been on the US news yet?

http://trendingstylist.com/police-hunting-for-black/

14 year old kids assaulting another kid and behaving like idiots should be national news?

I'm sure you can find some better story to support your blacks as agressors/whites as the real victims persecution complex.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: cuconnacht on June 28, 2015, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2015, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 12:01:40 AM
Ah the old ego Muppet, it can get the better of the best of us. Repent! Repent! ;D

You don't even have to use your own philosophy Muppet, you don't even have to have one, we arent trying to out do each other. I am just trying to demonstrate a few things, open people's mind a little more. Anyway this shit is way to impractical to use as your own personal philosophy.

And you point to my ego?

Joe you are simply a contrarian. No matter what anyone posts you gently (most of the time) disagree and put up a smilie. What is the point?
Ah now,dont be heedin him OmaghJoe,keep smileying ;D ,I believe Omaghjoe to be more of a constructionist of the De Cartes mode and method and Muppet the real Contrarian ;D
(and hes probably still pissed off with having to go to the great shithole in the sky bog on the 19th instead of a nice day out  in Salthill) :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 28, 2015, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 28, 2015, 06:05:03 AM
Has this been on the US news yet?

http://trendingstylist.com/police-hunting-for-black/

14 year old kids assaulting another kid and behaving like idiots should be national news?

I'm sure you can find some better story to support your blacks as agressors/whites as the real victims persecution complex.

That's your take on it? acting like idiots.... Can't even bring yourself to call it as it actually is. And what about all the friends standing around and egging her on? Even the guy dancing...

I'm sure if roles were reversed it would be on repeat on CNN...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2015, 06:04:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 28, 2015, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 28, 2015, 06:05:03 AM
Has this been on the US news yet?

http://trendingstylist.com/police-hunting-for-black/

14 year old kids assaulting another kid and behaving like idiots should be national news?

I'm sure you can find some better story to support your blacks as agressors/whites as the real victims persecution complex.

That's your take on it? acting like idiots.... Can't even bring yourself to call it as it actually is. And what about all the friends standing around and egging her on? Even the guy dancing...

I'm sure if roles were reversed it would be on repeat on CNN...

My take on it is that they are kids.

You didn't see shit like this in secondary school with bullying and a gang egging on someone kicking the shite out of another? If it wasn't some tool using race as a justification it would have been something else. And yes, of course its racist nonsense they're spouting.


But, I still don't get why this would be national news worthy. Are you saying this is the same as cops beating up or shooting unarmed black people?

Rush Limbaugh has, a number of times, highlighted stuff like this to show a supposed increase in racist behaviour on the part of blacks since Obama's election.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/16/rush-limbaugh-obamas-amer_n_288371.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/16/rush-limbaugh-obamas-amer_n_288371.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 29, 2015, 04:50:27 AM
Quote from: cuconnacht on June 28, 2015, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2015, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 27, 2015, 12:01:40 AM
Ah the old ego Muppet, it can get the better of the best of us. Repent! Repent! ;D

You don't even have to use your own philosophy Muppet, you don't even have to have one, we arent trying to out do each other. I am just trying to demonstrate a few things, open people's mind a little more. Anyway this shit is way to impractical to use as your own personal philosophy.

And you point to my ego?

Joe you are simply a contrarian. No matter what anyone posts you gently (most of the time) disagree and put up a smilie. What is the point?
Ah now,dont be heedin him OmaghJoe,keep smileying ;D ,I believe Omaghjoe to be more of a constructionist of the De Cartes mode and method and Muppet the real Contrarian ;D
(and hes probably still pissed off with having to go to the great shithole in the sky bog on the 19th instead of a nice day out  in Salthill) :-X

I've no intention of stopping Cuconnacht.
Its only his perception of me anyway but then its probably more real than the reality since that maybe isnt real at all :-)

On another note I enjoy your analysis, philosophy is something you obviously know about. I on other hand know feck all about it but just come up with shit, only to find out some other eejit came up with it in a more eloquent way years ago anyway.

Well I at least heard of Descartes, thanks to his coordinates. Never knew he was a philosopher tho into the bargin. I see where you leading me BTW, to those ontological arguments? Very good, tho defo gone way beyond the boundaries of this thread, would be interested to hear a few peoples opinions on them. However it would most likely be futile as most people have already made their mind up on the subject anyway so it would only be google search away to find a contradictory argument which you could latch on to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 29, 2015, 11:45:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 28, 2015, 06:05:03 AM
Has this been on the US news yet?

http://trendingstylist.com/police-hunting-for-black/

That's embarrassing. Not the item. Your decision to post as if it made some kind of point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 04, 2015, 09:43:50 PM
http://www.salon.com/2015/08/02/this_is_how_the_clowns_took_over_the_sad_history_leading_to_the_spectacle_of_a_fox_news_debate_starring_front_runner_donald_trump/ (http://www.salon.com/2015/08/02/this_is_how_the_clowns_took_over_the_sad_history_leading_to_the_spectacle_of_a_fox_news_debate_starring_front_runner_donald_trump/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 12, 2015, 03:42:10 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/world/middleeast/reporting-from-iran-jewish-paper-sees-no-plot-to-destroy-israel.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/world/middleeast/reporting-from-iran-jewish-paper-sees-no-plot-to-destroy-israel.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)

"I was repeatedly struck by the willingness of Iranians to offer sharp, even withering criticisms of their government on the record, sometimes even to be videotaped doing so," Mr. Cohler-Esses wrote.

He added that members of Iran's Jewish population of 9,000 to 20,000 people, "depending on whom you talk to," were also unafraid to complain about discriminatory laws that restrict their ability to work in the government.

He described them as "basically well-protected second-class citizens — a broadly prosperous, largely middle-class community whose members have no hesitation about walking down the streets of Tehran wearing yarmulkes."

Iran's government, he wrote, "makes a rigid distinction between hostility to 'the Zionist entity' and respect for followers of Judaism."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2015, 05:47:08 PM
Not a good week for Trump, with his poor performance at the debate and other venues when required to come up with policy specifics.

Even worse as of yesterday (at least in general election terms).

Donald J. Trump is not often criticized for remaining silent, but on Friday, other presidential candidates rebuked him for not correcting an apparent supporter who said Barack Obama was a Muslim who was not born in America.

At a town hall event held on Thursday evening in Rochester, N.H., Mr. Trump took the man's question, which began with the statement: "We have a problem in this country. It's called Muslims."

The audience member continued, "We know our current president is one." And as Mr. Trump responded, perhaps reflexively, "Right," the man added, "You know he's not even an American."

Mr. Trump, in a statement released late Thursday through a spokeswoman, defended his decision not to correct the man. "The media wants to make this issue about Obama," Mr. Trump said in the statement. "The bigger issue is that Obama is waging a war against Christians in this country. Christians need support in this country. Their religious liberty is at stake."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-muslim.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-muslim.html?_r=0)

So, 1. Trump allows some mouth breather's insane rantings on Muslims and Obama to go unchallenged.
2. He claims "Obama is waging a war against Christians in this country".

Those poor, persecuted Christians in America!! ;D

PLEASE LET HIM WIN THE NOMINATION!! PLEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE!!!! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 18, 2015, 06:12:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2015, 05:47:08 PM
Not a good week for Trump, with his poor performance at the debate and other venues when required to come up with policy specifics.

Even worse as of yesterday (at least in general election terms).

Donald J. Trump is not often criticized for remaining silent, but on Friday, other presidential candidates rebuked him for not correcting an apparent supporter who said Barack Obama was a Muslim who was not born in America.

At a town hall event held on Thursday evening in Rochester, N.H., Mr. Trump took the man's question, which began with the statement: "We have a problem in this country. It's called Muslims."

The audience member continued, "We know our current president is one." And as Mr. Trump responded, perhaps reflexively, "Right," the man added, "You know he's not even an American."

Mr. Trump, in a statement released late Thursday through a spokeswoman, defended his decision not to correct the man. "The media wants to make this issue about Obama," Mr. Trump said in the statement. "The bigger issue is that Obama is waging a war against Christians in this country. Christians need support in this country. Their religious liberty is at stake."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-muslim.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-muslim.html?_r=0)

So, 1. Trump allows some mouth breather's insane rantings on Muslims and Obama to go unchallenged.
2. He claims "Obama is waging a war against Christians in this country".

Those poor, persecuted Christians in America!! ;D

PLEASE LET HIM WIN THE NOMINATION!! PLEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE!!!! ;D

Sure Barack Hussein Obama wasn't even born in the USA. From 2004..

(http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2004-obama-e1337290974353.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2015, 06:35:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 18, 2015, 06:12:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2015, 05:47:08 PM
Not a good week for Trump, with his poor performance at the debate and other venues when required to come up with policy specifics.

Even worse as of yesterday (at least in general election terms).

Donald J. Trump is not often criticized for remaining silent, but on Friday, other presidential candidates rebuked him for not correcting an apparent supporter who said Barack Obama was a Muslim who was not born in America.

At a town hall event held on Thursday evening in Rochester, N.H., Mr. Trump took the man's question, which began with the statement: "We have a problem in this country. It's called Muslims."

The audience member continued, "We know our current president is one." And as Mr. Trump responded, perhaps reflexively, "Right," the man added, "You know he's not even an American."

Mr. Trump, in a statement released late Thursday through a spokeswoman, defended his decision not to correct the man. "The media wants to make this issue about Obama," Mr. Trump said in the statement. "The bigger issue is that Obama is waging a war against Christians in this country. Christians need support in this country. Their religious liberty is at stake."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-muslim.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-muslim.html?_r=0)

So, 1. Trump allows some mouth breather's insane rantings on Muslims and Obama to go unchallenged.
2. He claims "Obama is waging a war against Christians in this country".

Those poor, persecuted Christians in America!! ;D

PLEASE LET HIM WIN THE NOMINATION!! PLEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE!!!! ;D

Sure Barack Hussein Obama wasn't even born in the USA. From 2004..

(http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2004-obama-e1337290974353.jpg)

Well there you have it... conclusive proof at last!!!

(There is a Snopes piece on that article BTW, in case you are serious! )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 18, 2015, 06:57:24 PM
All the liberals are sh*t scared of Trump and will do anything to try bring him down.
CNN are certainly doing their best to blacken his campaign.

After 8 years of having a terrible president the people have woken up and demand someone who looks after their interests.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 18, 2015, 07:07:24 PM
The only thing that Trump is interested in looking after is himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2015, 07:11:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 18, 2015, 06:57:24 PM
All the liberals are sh*t scared of Trump and will do anything to try bring him down.
CNN are certainly doing their best to blacken his campaign.

After 8 years of having a terrible president the people have woken up and demand someone who looks after their interests.

I just said I'm virtually praying that he gets the nomination!!

Trump has been getting blanket coverage because of the shite he is spouting, in a calculated manner,  in my opinion. When challenged by serious questions (is Hugh Hewitt a liberal? ?), he cries foul because he can't answer.

I think Obama has done a decent job overall. Was worried for first two years or so,  but he found some balls (or came to his senses about the GOP) eventually!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 08:46:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2015, 07:11:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 18, 2015, 06:57:24 PM
All the liberals are sh*t scared of Trump and will do anything to try bring him down.
CNN are certainly doing their best to blacken his campaign.

After 8 years of having a terrible president the people have woken up and demand someone who looks after their interests.

I just said I'm virtually praying that he gets the nomination!!

Trump has been getting blanket coverage because of the shite he is spouting, in a calculated manner,  in my opinion. When challenged by serious questions (is Hugh Hewitt a liberal? ?), he cries foul because he can't answer.

I think Obama has done a decent job overall. Was worried for first two years or so,  but he found some balls (or came to his senses about the GOP) eventually!

Trump would be a pure disaster. To see it all unfold is pure madness. People actually like him and are falling for the shite he spouts.
For me it's the weakest race on both sides to that I've been alive for and interested in. 3rd term for Obama is on the cards I would say
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 18, 2015, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 08:46:28 PM
3rd term for Obama is on the cards I would say

Except the US Constitution prevents third terms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 18, 2015, 09:13:23 PM
Who would be a good candidate Hillary proven liar untrustworthy
Bernie Saunders never be elected
Biden to close to Obama bit of  a clown could say anything
The republicans have way too many runners think we could see another bush
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 18, 2015, 09:17:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2015, 09:13:23 PM
Who would be a good candidate Hillary proven liar untrustworthy
Bernie Saunders never be elected
Biden to close to Obama bit of  a clown could say anything
The republicans have way too many runners think we could see another bush

Sophia Bush hopefully.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: dec on September 18, 2015, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 08:46:28 PM
3rd term for Obama is on the cards I would say

Except the US Constitution prevents third terms.
since when has that stopped him....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 18, 2015, 09:20:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: dec on September 18, 2015, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 08:46:28 PM
3rd term for Obama is on the cards I would say

Except the US Constitution prevents third terms.
since when has that stopped him....

Yea, shur what harm if he gets Putin again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 09:30:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 18, 2015, 09:20:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: dec on September 18, 2015, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 08:46:28 PM
3rd term for Obama is on the cards I would say

Except the US Constitution prevents third terms.
since when has that stopped him....

Yea, shur what harm if he gets Putin again?
Might get a call from Elton John about leaving Russia....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on September 18, 2015, 10:49:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 18, 2015, 06:57:24 PM
All the liberals are sh*t scared of Trump and will do anything to try bring him down.

if the "liberals" had any sense they would encourage Trump, as he doesn't exactly appeal to the crossover voter, whereas some of the other Republicans have some credibility.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on September 19, 2015, 08:18:36 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 09:30:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 18, 2015, 09:20:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: dec on September 18, 2015, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 18, 2015, 08:46:28 PM
3rd term for Obama is on the cards I would say

Except the US Constitution prevents third terms.
since when has that stopped him....

Yea, shur what harm if he gets Putin again?
Might get a call from Elton John about leaving Russia....

Oh Nikita you will never know....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on September 19, 2015, 08:33:05 AM
Trump doesnt have a chance for the nomination and for the presidency even less, even Hillary (the Santa Clause) Clinton would wipe the floor with him. Those that relate to him are angry white males and just like him and are total simpletons, there's plenty around tho and thats where his popularity comes from but there isnt anywhere near enough of them to win him anything.

All else aside Trump is great entertainment, showing politics up to be the farce it is. A silly, popularity, contest

He makes all the rest of them seems very sensible. Bush for example seems like a great well leveled guy after his recent spat with Trump.
I was starting to sorta like him, then the wife was telling me he wants to put Maggie Thatcher on the $10 note! :o A wee reminder that its politics not about personalities its about politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Canalman on September 19, 2015, 01:11:40 PM
Jeb Bush will get GOP nomination in a canter at the end.

Think  HC will not have it all her own way in getting DP nod. Someone from leftfield is going to give her some fright and may swipe it from her Obamalike.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2015, 04:43:02 PM
There is NO ONE on the Democratic side to take the nomination from Clinton, except in the highly unlikely event that some criminal charges arise out of these emails and she has to withdraw. The Democratic line-up is exceptionally poor this time out, possibly because no one wants to waste their time going up against Hillary and the Clinton machine. Obama was different due to his charisma and freshness. Clinton will get it because there is no other viable option.

The GOP has plenty of numbers, but outside of maybe Kasich and Bush, they're a bunch of no-hopers for the general election who are falling over themselves to court the crazy right wing base. That's why the party leaders are desperate for Trump to implode.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2015, 05:23:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2015, 04:43:02 PM
There is NO ONE on the Democratic side to take the nomination from Clinton, except in the highly unlikely event that some criminal charges arise out of these emails and she has to withdraw. The Democratic line-up is exceptionally poor this time out, possibly because no one wants to waste their time going up against Hillary and the Clinton machine. Obama was different due to his charisma and freshness. Clinton will get it because there is no other viable option.

The GOP has plenty of numbers, but outside of maybe Kasich and Bush, they're a bunch of no-hopers for the general election who are falling over themselves to court the crazy right wing base. That's why the party leaders are desperate for Trump to implode.

A month ago I would hav agreed with yu, but now I'm not so sure

http://www.businessinsider.com/poll-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-matchup-2015-9
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2015, 05:50:32 PM
Liberals love Trump. The more he talks the more damage he does to the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2015, 08:18:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2015, 05:50:32 PM
Liberals love Trump. The more he talks the more damage he does to the GOP.

I think Hillary testifies under oath at the end of October.

First Democratic debate is also in October. 

If one or other doesn't go well she could be toast.

Lets assume she's out-who carries the torch for the Dems.....Biden or Sanders??????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2015, 08:33:44 PM
She will stroll through the debates. Whatever else, she is smart as hell and knows her shit.

And unless something unbelievable comes out of the deleted emails, like she really did cut the ambassador to Libya loose, she will ride that out too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2015, 05:59:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2015, 08:18:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2015, 05:50:32 PM
Liberals love Trump. The more he talks the more damage he does to the GOP.

I think Hillary testifies under oath at the end of October.

First Democratic debate is also in October. 

If one or other doesn't go well she could be toast.

Lets assume she's out-who carries the torch for the Dems.....Biden or Sanders??????

I was hoping Cory Booker would run, but I'm not seeing much sign of it.

Gerry Brown's a bit old and I get the impression he's more interested in finishing out his term as California governor.

Gavin Newsom would be great but he still has to get a term or two as California governor under his belt before he can make a credible run.

Much as I like Sanders I have my doubts about his electability.

I'm no fan of Clinton, and I'm a bit disappointed that she's the front runner for the dems. She's got so many skeletons in the closet and out of it that there's a real chance she could blow the general election and let one of those racist, xenophobic, religious fundamentalist, anti-intellectual conservative sh*tbags in, which would be a catastrophe for the country and for the world. That could lead to another calamitous GW Bush type presidency, and if that happens then God help us.

I wish a Democrat closer to the center than Sanders and with less baggage than Clinton would have a go. But who is there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 21, 2015, 08:42:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2015, 05:59:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2015, 08:18:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2015, 05:50:32 PM
Liberals love Trump. The more he talks the more damage he does to the GOP.

I think Hillary testifies under oath at the end of October.

First Democratic debate is also in October. 

If one or other doesn't go well she could be toast.

Lets assume she's out-who carries the torch for the Dems.....Biden or Sanders??????

I was hoping Cory Booker would run, but I'm not seeing much sign of it.

Gerry Brown's a bit old and I get the impression he's more interested in finishing out his term as California governor.

Gavin Newsom would be great but he still has to get a term or two as California governor under his belt before he can make a credible run.

Much as I like Sanders I have my doubts about his electability.

I'm no fan of Clinton, and I'm a bit disappointed that she's the front runner for the dems. She's got so many skeletons in the closet and out of it that there's a real chance she could blow the general election and let one of those racist, xenophobic, religious fundamentalist, anti-intellectual conservative sh*tbags in, which would be a catastrophe for the country and for the world. That could lead to another calamitous GW Bush type presidency, and if that happens then God help us.

I wish a Democrat closer to the center than Sanders and with less baggage than Clinton would have a go. But who is there?

Jesse Jackson could have another go. Or Kanye West.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2015, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2015, 05:59:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2015, 08:18:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2015, 05:50:32 PM
Liberals love Trump. The more he talks the more damage he does to the GOP.

I think Hillary testifies under oath at the end of October.

First Democratic debate is also in October. 

If one or other doesn't go well she could be toast.

Lets assume she's out-who carries the torch for the Dems.....Biden or Sanders??????

I was hoping Cory Booker would run, but I'm not seeing much sign of it.

Gerry Brown's a bit old and I get the impression he's more interested in finishing out his term as California governor.

Gavin Newsom would be great but he still has to get a term or two as California governor under his belt before he can make a credible run.

Much as I like Sanders I have my doubts about his electability.

I'm no fan of Clinton, and I'm a bit disappointed that she's the front runner for the dems. She's got so many skeletons in the closet and out of it that there's a real chance she could blow the general election and let one of those racist, xenophobic, religious fundamentalist, anti-intellectual conservative sh*tbags in, which would be a catastrophe for the country and for the world. That could lead to another calamitous GW Bush type presidency, and if that happens then God help us.

I wish a Democrat closer to the center than Sanders and with less baggage than Clinton would have a go. But who is there?

Cory Booker has lost a bit of his sheen over the past year or so with a few stories out of Newark.

Newsome is definitely a future contender if he moves up the ranks in CA. Can't believe he was married to one of those Fox News hairdos though!

The Democratic field is rather sad overall,  but at least Hillary will be a formidable, if seriously flawed candidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 08, 2015, 07:07:43 PM
Stew won't agree, but whoever is behind Obama's foreign policy is a genius!  :D

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34479873 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34479873)

Four Russian cruise missiles fired at Syria from the Caspian Sea landed on Iran, unnamed US officials say
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 09, 2015, 01:48:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 21, 2015, 08:42:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2015, 05:59:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2015, 08:18:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2015, 05:50:32 PM
Liberals love Trump. The more he talks the more damage he does to the GOP.

I think Hillary testifies under oath at the end of October.

First Democratic debate is also in October. 

If one or other doesn't go well she could be toast.

Lets assume she's out-who carries the torch for the Dems.....Biden or Sanders??????

I was hoping Cory Booker would run, but I'm not seeing much sign of it.

Gerry Brown's a bit old and I get the impression he's more interested in finishing out his term as California governor.

Gavin Newsom would be great but he still has to get a term or two as California governor under his belt before he can make a credible run.

Much as I like Sanders I have my doubts about his electability.

I'm no fan of Clinton, and I'm a bit disappointed that she's the front runner for the dems. She's got so many skeletons in the closet and out of it that there's a real chance she could blow the general election and let one of those racist, xenophobic, religious fundamentalist, anti-intellectual conservative sh*tbags in, which would be a catastrophe for the country and for the world. That could lead to another calamitous GW Bush type presidency, and if that happens then God help us.

I wish a Democrat closer to the center than Sanders and with less baggage than Clinton would have a go. But who is there?

Jesse Jackson could have another go. Or Kanye West.

Eamo  you talk some shite, the most educated man running is a former Surgeon, he is a class act from head to toe, another thing, there are plenty of shitbags running on the looney left, not the least of which is that kn**ker Clinton.

Looney lefties/communists are just as dangerous as the far right wing nuts, and not believing in killing babies in the womb does not a bad man make!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on October 09, 2015, 02:20:05 AM
On Monday Donald Trump met in New York City with several evangelicals, televangelists and a Jews for Jesus rabbi. 

Nuts, just nuts.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk4c2uoOF3o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 09, 2015, 03:32:07 AM
Stew, it's undeniable that Ben Carson is very bright, an accomplished neurosurgeon, but at the same time he's spectacularly dumb.  He says and believes things totally at odds with his scientific background and his training at Yale, I believe.  He thinks that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was inspired by the adversary, i.e. Satan.  Catholics don't find the Theory of Evolution incompatible with their beliefs, yet Carson does, believing in the young earth idea, in spite of mountains of fossil evidence, i.e. Science, to prove otherwise.  He equates homosexuality with pedophilia and bestiality.  It goes on and on.  Google it.  He is a brilliant nut job, an anti-science scientist.  Don't be wooed by his soft delivery.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 09, 2015, 06:44:34 AM
"Communists" lol.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 09, 2015, 07:41:35 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 09, 2015, 03:32:07 AM
Stew, it's undeniable that Ben Carson is very bright, an accomplished neurosurgeon, but at the same time he's spectacularly dumb.  He says and believes things totally at odds with his scientific background and his training at Yale, I believe.  He thinks that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was inspired by the adversary, i.e. Satan.  Catholics don't find the Theory of Evolution incompatible with their beliefs, yet Carson does, believing in the young earth idea, in spite of mountains of fossil evidence, i.e. Science, to prove otherwise.  He equates homosexuality with pedophilia and bestiality.  It goes on and on.  Google it.  He is a brilliant nut job, an anti-science scientist.  Don't be wooed by his soft delivery.

HS! Didnt believe he was such a wacko, He obiviously couldnt actually believe it himself.

I actually liked the chap.  Although much of his sentiment I agree with, alot of his politics would be completely at odds with my own. If it was a popularity contest (which it is for most people) I would vote for him...but he is obviously BSing with that crap so my estimation would have down big style.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 09, 2015, 08:24:08 AM
Carson is a neuro-surgeon who also happens to be a complete idiot

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/09/ben-carson-claims-jewish-people-might-have-stopped-holocaust-if-they-had-guns?CMP=share_btn_tw (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/09/ben-carson-claims-jewish-people-might-have-stopped-holocaust-if-they-had-guns?CMP=share_btn_tw)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 09, 2015, 10:48:58 AM
Quote from: Declan on October 09, 2015, 08:24:08 AM
Carson is a neuro-surgeon who also happens to be a complete idiot

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/09/ben-carson-claims-jewish-people-might-have-stopped-holocaust-if-they-had-guns?CMP=share_btn_tw (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/09/ben-carson-claims-jewish-people-might-have-stopped-holocaust-if-they-had-guns?CMP=share_btn_tw)

"The guy comes in, put the gun in my ribs," Carson said. "And I just said, 'I believe that you want the guy behind the counter' ... I redirected him."

Don't shoot me, shoot him!

He'll make a great president.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 09, 2015, 01:13:54 PM
Carson is a non starter- no shot whatsoever.

I can't understand the Republican party's approach to picking a candidate this time around. In playing to the base they have all of the candidates coming out with utterances that make them completely unelectable in the general election.

Carson is absolutely unbelievable, it is absolutely insane some of the comments he has made this week alone. How can a Yale educated neurosurgeon come out with statements that 5 year olds are able to call bullshit?

I just don't get it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 09, 2015, 01:17:23 PM
Consider whose votes he has to win.

It's called "pandering"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 09, 2015, 01:24:13 PM
Jesus Christ I just checked the polls and Trump is up a whopping 11 points on Carson. . . f**k me!!

Hilary twenty points ahead in the Democratic poll but she's dropped 20 points since April. Herself and Sanders seem to have leveled out since then though.

I think Hilary wipes the floor with Trump in a General Election!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 09, 2015, 01:29:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2015, 01:17:23 PM
Consider whose votes he has to win.

It's called "pandering"

in the next 13 months he needs the majority of the electoral colleges, He's already done enough to make that impossible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 09, 2015, 03:59:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 09, 2015, 01:13:54 PM
Carson is a non starter- no shot whatsoever.

I can't understand the Republican party's approach to picking a candidate this time around. In playing to the base they have all of the candidates coming out with utterances that make them completely unelectable in the general election.

Carson is absolutely unbelievable, it is absolutely insane some of the comments he has made this week alone. How can a Yale educated neurosurgeon come out with statements that 5 year olds are able to call bullshit?

I just don't get it

When you have democrats running for office in the GOP you are going to get fecked! Trump is a democrat at heart, he is also a pile of shite!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 09, 2015, 06:20:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 09, 2015, 01:29:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2015, 01:17:23 PM
Consider whose votes he has to win.

It's called "pandering"

in the next 13 months he needs the majority of the electoral colleges, He's already done enough to make that impossible

Its a trend though.  Romney did it last time and could not recover. He tried moving to the centre,  especially in the first debate when Obama was completely listless and unprepared,  but the damage was done.

Unfortunately for them, the deranged lunatics who vote in GOP primaries bear little resemblance to the general electorate.

Even in Congress,  no one outside of the Tea Party crew wants to be Speaker of the House. These types do not get the concept of compromise and the realities of politics in an evenly divided country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 10, 2015, 07:48:27 AM
Carson at it again, now about the Oregon shooting victims ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 13, 2015, 02:25:28 PM
Interesting read
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 13, 2015, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 13, 2015, 02:25:28 PM
Interesting read
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter)

Not particularly surprising though.

I have always wondered how the Republicans ever got votes from anyone with a net worth less than $10,000,000. Turkeys voting for massively wealthy turkey producers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 13, 2015, 02:25:28 PM
Interesting read
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter)

Not particularly surprising though.

I have always wondered how the Republicans ever got votes from anyone with a net worth less than $10,000,000. Turkeys voting for massively wealthy turkey producers.

Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense. It's an extreme choice. At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 03:01:37 PM
Wedge issues.  Guns, god and gays.
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 13, 2015, 02:25:28 PM
Interesting read
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter)

Not particularly surprising though.

I have always wondered how the Republicans ever got votes from anyone with a net worth less than $10,000,000. Turkeys voting for massively wealthy turkey producers.

Wedge issues. Guns,  god, gays,  immigrants, science etc. etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 03:04:12 PM
They want to "take their country back"... apparently to the 1950s.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 13, 2015, 03:09:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 03:01:37 PM
Wedge issues.  Guns, god and gays.
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 13, 2015, 02:25:28 PM
Interesting read
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter)

Not particularly surprising though.

I have always wondered how the Republicans ever got votes from anyone with a net worth less than $10,000,000. Turkeys voting for massively wealthy turkey producers.

Wedge issues. Guns,  god, gays,  immigrants, science etc. etc.

Fine. Gun-toting, God-fearing, homophobic, xenophobic, anti-intellectual turkeys then.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!

In a 2 horse election you don't have many options.
Some of my US friends who were democrats have switched sides mainly because they can't align with the Kenyan lads policies of pandering to the freeloaders and minority pressure groups at the expense of the good honest hard working yanks. They feel he's taken down the standards a notch to try even things out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2015, 03:49:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 21, 2015, 08:42:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2015, 05:59:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2015, 08:18:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2015, 05:50:32 PM
Liberals love Trump. The more he talks the more damage he does to the GOP.

I think Hillary testifies under oath at the end of October.

First Democratic debate is also in October. 

If one or other doesn't go well she could be toast.

Lets assume she's out-who carries the torch for the Dems.....Biden or Sanders??????

I was hoping Cory Booker would run, but I'm not seeing much sign of it.

Gerry Brown's a bit old and I get the impression he's more interested in finishing out his term as California governor.

Gavin Newsom would be great but he still has to get a term or two as California governor under his belt before he can make a credible run.

Much as I like Sanders I have my doubts about his electability.

I'm no fan of Clinton, and I'm a bit disappointed that she's the front runner for the dems. She's got so many skeletons in the closet and out of it that there's a real chance she could blow the general election and let one of those racist, xenophobic, religious fundamentalist, anti-intellectual conservative sh*tbags in, which would be a catastrophe for the country and for the world. That could lead to another calamitous GW Bush type presidency, and if that happens then God help us.

I wish a Democrat closer to the center than Sanders and with less baggage than Clinton would have a go. But who is there?

Jesse Jackson could have another go. Or Kanye West.

Trump is a democrat ffs!


It's not the first the dems have had one of their own run for the GOP ticket now is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2015, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!

In a 2 horse election you don't have many options.
Some of my US friends who were democrats have switched sides mainly because they can't align with the Kenyan lads policies of pandering to the freeloaders and minority pressure groups at the expense of the good honest hard working yanks. They feel he's taken down the standards a notch to try even things out.

Taxing the wealthy would be a good start, he had the majority to do so in the house/senate and he failed to tax the fcukers they way they should be taxed, same thing on gun control, we are talking here about a President who gave up five top terrorists for one traitor? you could not make this shit up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:08:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 13, 2015, 02:25:28 PM
Interesting read
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter)

Not particularly surprising though.

I have always wondered how the Republicans ever got votes from anyone with a net worth less than $10,000,000. Turkeys voting for massively wealthy turkey producers.

Really? people are sick and tired of this namby pamby President who has done next to nothing for the poor, in fact there are more homeless people now than when he took office!

Instead of going after the wealthy and taxing them fairly he sat on his hands, he has done feck all on gun control and the national debt is absolutely incredible under this arsehole! He is a fantastically ungifted person, he has nothing good to offer the country and his presidency is a nightmare!

This country needs a third option in the worst way, and a fourth and the sad thing with people like you muppet is that you cannot see that there are good people in both parties, with good idea's.

When Walker became Governor of Wisconsin some newly elected liberal asswipes actually fled, scurried like rats to Illinois because he was going after the Unions, they only came back under threat of jail time, that is the sort of shite the liberals were up to in the State I lived in for 20 years! They then went after him, tried to impeach him and he beat them again, I have no use for Walker but I loved it that he stuck it to those gutless liberal w**k stains!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Stew, why all the ranting and raging and venom against anything that isn't a Republican?

And where is the link I asked you for?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!

In a 2 horse election you don't have many options.
Some of my US friends who were democrats have switched sides mainly because they can't align with the Kenyan lads policies of pandering to the freeloaders and minority pressure groups at the expense of the good honest hard working yanks. They feel he's taken down the standards a notch to try even things out.

Yeah, your US friends sound like really thoughtful and educated people.

What a load of bollocks! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:35:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!

In a 2 horse election you don't have many options.
Some of my US friends who were democrats have switched sides mainly because they can't align with the Kenyan lads policies of pandering to the freeloaders and minority pressure groups at the expense of the good honest hard working yanks. They feel he's taken down the standards a notch to try even things out.

Yeah, your US friends sound like really thoughtful and educated people.

What a load of bollocks! ;D

So just because his friends changed their political stance, having actually lived through Obama's  Presidency, you deem them thick?

You are some pup, I mean you have the ability to ascertain a persons intelligence based solely on the fact they defected from the democrats!

What exactly is a load of bollocks?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Stew, why all the ranting and raging and venom against anything that isn't a Republican?

And where is the link I asked you for?

I am not a republican, never have been, I would prefer them over that other shower, and the main reason is because too many on here side with the democrats and since they have been shite for 7 years I want to see change.

Who the f**k are you to ask me for anything?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:39:13 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:08:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 13, 2015, 02:25:28 PM
Interesting read
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/13/the-hard-right-swerve-of-the-super-rich.html?via=desktop&source=twitter)

Not particularly surprising though.

I have always wondered how the Republicans ever got votes from anyone with a net worth less than $10,000,000. Turkeys voting for massively wealthy turkey producers.

Really? people are sick and tired of this namby pamby President who has done next to nothing for the poor, in fact there are more homeless people now than when he took office!

Instead of going after the wealthy and taxing them fairly he sat on his hands, he has done feck all on gun control and the national debt is absolutely incredible under this arsehole! He is a fantastically ungifted person, he has nothing good to offer the country and his presidency is a nightmare!

This country needs a third option in the worst way, and a fourth and the sad thing with people like you muppet is that you cannot see that there are good people in both parties, with good idea's.

When Walker became Governor of Wisconsin some newly elected liberal asswipes actually fled, scurried like rats to Illinois because he was going after the Unions, they only came back under threat of jail time, that is the sort of shite the liberals were up to in the State I lived in for 20 years! They then went after him, tried to impeach him and he beat them again, I have no use for Walker but I loved it that he stuck it to those gutless liberal w**k stains!

Nice rant.

You must have missed where he got the higher rate of tax for high earners a couple of years back after the election,  and McConnell vowed "no more!" And the various times he asked for increases to fund stuff like infrastructure.  Not much he can with the Congress that exists, which would rather do nothing than give Obama even a hint of a victory,  even if it is something they themselves might ordinarily agree with.

As for guns,  what exactly would you have him do? Same with what happened to the debt. There was a major,  major recession, in case you didn't notice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:40:16 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Stew, why all the ranting and raging and venom against anything that isn't a Republican?

And where is the link I asked you for?

I am not a republican, never have been, I would prefer them over that other shower, and the main reason is because too many on here side with the democrats and since they have been shite for 7 years I want to see change.

Who the f**k are you to ask me for anything?

You side with the GOP because of people on this site?

Seriously?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:43:46 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Stew, why all the ranting and raging and venom against anything that isn't a Republican?

And where is the link I asked you for?

I am not a republican, never have been, I would prefer them over that other shower, and the main reason is because too many on here side with the democrats and since they have been shite for 7 years I want to see change.

Who the f**k are you to ask me for anything?

Ok you are not a Republican, you just shout and scream blue murder anytime anyone criticises them.

And as for you last comment. You were speaking on my behalf earlier. Is it not reasonable for me to ask where you are getting your info?  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:44:32 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:35:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!

In a 2 horse election you don't have many options.
Some of my US friends who were democrats have switched sides mainly because they can't align with the Kenyan lads policies of pandering to the freeloaders and minority pressure groups at the expense of the good honest hard working yanks. They feel he's taken down the standards a notch to try even things out.

Yeah, your US friends sound like really thoughtful and educated people.

What a load of bollocks! ;D

So just because his friends changed their political stance, having actually lived through Obama's  Presidency, you deem them thick?

You are some pup, I mean you have the ability to ascertain a persons intelligence based solely on the fact they defected from the democrats!

What exactly is a load of bollocks?

I can only go on the info he gave i.e. the "Kenyan lad" pandering to freeloaders and minority groups at the expense of "good honest hard working yanks".

Which is utter shite.

Which is another way of saying "a load of bollocks".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:48:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:44:32 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:35:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!

In a 2 horse election you don't have many options.
Some of my US friends who were democrats have switched sides mainly because they can't align with the Kenyan lads policies of pandering to the freeloaders and minority pressure groups at the expense of the good honest hard working yanks. They feel he's taken down the standards a notch to try even things out.

Yeah, your US friends sound like really thoughtful and educated people.

What a load of bollocks! ;D

So just because his friends changed their political stance, having actually lived through Obama's  Presidency, you deem them thick?

You are some pup, I mean you have the ability to ascertain a persons intelligence based solely on the fact they defected from the democrats!

What exactly is a load of bollocks?

I can only go on the info he gave i.e. the "Kenyan lad" pandering to freeloaders and minority groups at the expense of "good honest hard working yanks".

Which is utter shite.

Which is another way of saying "a load of bollocks".

It is not utter shite to them, and they live here, it is the way they feel and they are entitled to their opinion, especially as they live here, in the states there is no excuse for being on the dole for years on end, the president is an enabler!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:44:32 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:35:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!

In a 2 horse election you don't have many options.
Some of my US friends who were democrats have switched sides mainly because they can't align with the Kenyan lads policies of pandering to the freeloaders and minority pressure groups at the expense of the good honest hard working yanks. They feel he's taken down the standards a notch to try even things out.

Yeah, your US friends sound like really thoughtful and educated people.

What a load of bollocks! ;D

So just because his friends changed their political stance, having actually lived through Obama's  Presidency, you deem them thick?

You are some pup, I mean you have the ability to ascertain a persons intelligence based solely on the fact they defected from the democrats!

What exactly is a load of bollocks?

I can only go on the info he gave i.e. the "Kenyan lad" pandering to freeloaders and minority groups at the expense of "good honest hard working yanks".

Which is utter shite.

Which is another way of saying "a load of bollocks".

In your own mind you are right. That's all that counts.

The president took some time recently to advise Kanye West about running for office. Now if that doesn't show he's a publicity seeking fool then I don't know what is. How about tackling the real issues that affect the citizens?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 13, 2015, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Stew, why all the ranting and raging and venom against anything that isn't a Republican?

And where is the link I asked you for?

I am not a republican, never have been, I would prefer them over that other shower, and the main reason is because too many on here side with the democrats and since they have been shite for 7 years I want to see change.

Who the f**k are you to ask me for anything?

That's all well and good but the 8 years before Obama were more shite (9/11, the collapse of the global economy to name just 2 catastrophe's Bush presided over) than his reign so where do you draw the line.

Clinton is now regarded as one of the great American Presidents but it wasn't that way at the time. What's to say Hilary won't effect more change?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 04:54:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
Now if that doesn't show he's a publicity seeking fool then I don't know what is. How about tackling the real issues that affect the citizens?

You mean he's a politician? They aren't really interested in other citizens...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2015, 05:05:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:40:16 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Stew, why all the ranting and raging and venom against anything that isn't a Republican?

And where is the link I asked you for?

I am not a republican, never have been, I would prefer them over that other shower, and the main reason is because too many on here side with the democrats and since they have been shite for 7 years I want to see change.

Who the f**k are you to ask me for anything?

You side with the GOP because of people on this site?

Seriously?

Indirectly I suppose! I post how I feel because all I see is a bunch of automatons spewing a liberal agenda and denouncing any conservative thought or opinion, that does not sit well with me.

I have yet to find anyone on here that sees any good in any conservative way of thinking, and that tells me a lot about the posters, they have no balance whatsoever and I think that is a dangerous train of thought!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 04:54:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
Now if that doesn't show he's a publicity seeking fool then I don't know what is. How about tackling the real issues that affect the citizens?

You mean he's a politician? They aren't really interested in other citizens...

I know...sometimes you expect a little too much.
Now back to Enda :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:48:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:44:32 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:35:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!

In a 2 horse election you don't have many options.
Some of my US friends who were democrats have switched sides mainly because they can't align with the Kenyan lads policies of pandering to the freeloaders and minority pressure groups at the expense of the good honest hard working yanks. They feel he's taken down the standards a notch to try even things out.

Yeah, your US friends sound like really thoughtful and educated people.

What a load of bollocks! ;D

So just because his friends changed their political stance, having actually lived through Obama's  Presidency, you deem them thick?

You are some pup, I mean you have the ability to ascertain a persons intelligence based solely on the fact they defected from the democrats!

What exactly is a load of bollocks?

I can only go on the info he gave i.e. the "Kenyan lad" pandering to freeloaders and minority groups at the expense of "good honest hard working yanks".

Which is utter shite.

Which is another way of saying "a load of bollocks".

It is not utter shite to them, and they live here, it is the way they feel and they are entitled to their opinion, especially as they live here, in the states there is no excuse for being on the dole for years on end, the president is an enabler!

Who is on the dole for years on end? Unemployment benefits, administered by the states, NOT the feds, generally run out after 26 weeks. The emergency federal program, which then covered people through 99 weeks (a total of less than two years), in a time of high unemployment, ended two years ago.

That aside, the idea that poor people and minorities are making out like thieves while "genuine hard working yanks" are fucked over is utter shite. Oh, Fox News and talk radio and the Tea Party may bang on about this shit and influence Foxcommander's friends, but that doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 05:57:05 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 05:05:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:40:16 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Stew, why all the ranting and raging and venom against anything that isn't a Republican?

And where is the link I asked you for?

I am not a republican, never have been, I would prefer them over that other shower, and the main reason is because too many on here side with the democrats and since they have been shite for 7 years I want to see change.

Who the f**k are you to ask me for anything?

You side with the GOP because of people on this site?

Seriously?

Indirectly I suppose! I post how I feel because all I see is a bunch of automatons spewing a liberal agenda and denouncing any conservative thought or opinion, that does not sit well with me.

I have yet to find anyone on here that sees any good in any conservative way of thinking, and that tells me a lot about the posters, they have no balance whatsoever and I think that is a dangerous train of thought!

Stew, the US conservative movement has gone off the deep end since Obama was elected. Chirst, even Pete King and Tom Cole, about as far from a liberal as you could find, are basically calling their colleagues unreasonable, deluded morons in the current panic over finding a Speaker of the House. If there are policies and positions they offer that are still reasonable, please present them.

And not that I need to impress you or anyone else by embracing a conservative position, but I personally would side with them in their opposition to abortion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 13, 2015, 05:59:15 PM
Do many of the posters contributing to this  live in the states?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 06:01:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:44:32 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:35:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Maybe they see the democrats as eroding the nation with their policies at the peoples expense.

Fair point!

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
At least there might be some trickle down benefit on the rich getting richer

unfortunately not-  no trickle down benefit at all- evidence disproves this theory

Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
cos there's certainly none in crack cocaine sales.
again fair point!

In a 2 horse election you don't have many options.
Some of my US friends who were democrats have switched sides mainly because they can't align with the Kenyan lads policies of pandering to the freeloaders and minority pressure groups at the expense of the good honest hard working yanks. They feel he's taken down the standards a notch to try even things out.

Yeah, your US friends sound like really thoughtful and educated people.

What a load of bollocks! ;D

So just because his friends changed their political stance, having actually lived through Obama's  Presidency, you deem them thick?

You are some pup, I mean you have the ability to ascertain a persons intelligence based solely on the fact they defected from the democrats!

What exactly is a load of bollocks?

I can only go on the info he gave i.e. the "Kenyan lad" pandering to freeloaders and minority groups at the expense of "good honest hard working yanks".

Which is utter shite.

Which is another way of saying "a load of bollocks".

In your own mind you are right. That's all that counts.

The president took some time recently to advise Kanye West about running for office. Now if that doesn't show he's a publicity seeking fool then I don't know what is. How about tackling the real issues that affect the citizens?

Right, because he can't take a second to make a joke AND do his job.

You must exist in a constant state of frothing outrage if THAT bothered you!

And in what parallel dimension does a president need to seek publicity!! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2015, 06:03:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 13, 2015, 05:59:15 PM
Do many of the posters contributing to this  live in the states?

I'm in NYC. Stew is in Green Bay (I think). Don't know about Foxcommander!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 06:31:17 PM
I'm also in New York
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2015, 07:08:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:43:46 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Stew, why all the ranting and raging and venom against anything that isn't a Republican?

And where is the link I asked you for?

I am not a republican, never have been, I would prefer them over that other shower, and the main reason is because too many on here side with the democrats and since they have been shite for 7 years I want to see change.

Who the f**k are you to ask me for anything?

Ok you are not a Republican, you just shout and scream blue murder anytime anyone criticizes them.

And as for you last comment. You were speaking on my behalf earlier. Is it not reasonable for me to ask where you are getting your info?  ;D

Is is reasonable muppet, yes it is.

I do not shout and scream when someone criticizes the republicans, I hold them accountable as much as the liberals in certain area's, for example not taxing the wealthy, the fawning over that turd that runs Israel and for going to war in Iraq under false pretense's, the issue I have is that according to the vast majority on here democrat = Good and Republican =Bad, to me there are good liberals and bad conservatives as well as good conservatives and bad liberals, but to many on here, they put their liberal tinted glasses on and the conservatives always the bad men!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 14, 2015, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 07:08:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:43:46 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2015, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Stew, why all the ranting and raging and venom against anything that isn't a Republican?

And where is the link I asked you for?

I am not a republican, never have been, I would prefer them over that other shower, and the main reason is because too many on here side with the democrats and since they have been shite for 7 years I want to see change.

Who the f**k are you to ask me for anything?

Ok you are not a Republican, you just shout and scream blue murder anytime anyone criticizes them.

And as for you last comment. You were speaking on my behalf earlier. Is it not reasonable for me to ask where you are getting your info?  ;D

Is is reasonable muppet, yes it is.

I do not shout and scream when someone criticizes the republicans, I hold them accountable as much as the liberals in certain area's, for example not taxing the wealthy, the fawning over that turd that runs Israel and for going to war in Iraq under false pretense's, the issue I have is that according to the vast majority on here democrat = Good and Republican =Bad, to me there are good liberals and bad conservatives as well as good conservatives and bad liberals, but to many on here, they put their liberal tinted glasses on and the conservatives always the bad men!

It tends to be those that shout the loudest get more recognised. The fact the Conservatives have Fox News and the Tea Party spouting absolute drivel on a daily basis drowns out the moderate Conservatives who are reasonable and trying to do good.

To coin a political phrase the optics for Conservatives are not good!!

In other news it sounds like Hilary wiped the floor with Sanders last night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 10:10:23 AM
There are plenty of bad liberals and many of them are Democrats.

There are plenty of good conservatives and none of them are Republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on October 14, 2015, 10:30:18 AM
Just skimming through this thread.

Fox and Stew are complete lunatics.

Sin e.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on October 14, 2015, 11:11:06 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 14, 2015, 10:30:18 AM
Just skimming through this thread.

Fox and Stew are complete lunatics.

Sin e.

Thats what angel dust and steriods in the steak do to you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2015, 01:31:03 PM
https://youtu.be/otpyDFCPozo

This is the lady a lot of you would love to see as President.

One of her opponents lit her up on her ethics last night and when cooper asked her to respond she said NO.

You cannot defend the indefensible, she is pond scum!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 02:01:09 PM
Quote from: stew on October 14, 2015, 01:31:03 PM
One of her opponents lit her up on her ethics last night and when cooper asked her to respond she said NO.

By all (other) accounts, Hillary Clinton wiped the floor with her opponents last night. But you seem to have seen something different. What was this question that exposed her?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2015, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: stew on October 14, 2015, 01:31:03 PM
https://youtu.be/otpyDFCPozo

This is the lady a lot of you would love to see as President.

One of her opponents lit her up on her ethics last night and when cooper asked her to respond she said NO.

You cannot defend the indefensible, she is pond scum!

What has her flippant remark on Qadaffi got to with ethics?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 06:01:37 PM

Right, because he can't take a second to make a joke AND do his job.

You must exist in a constant state of frothing outrage if THAT bothered you!

And in what parallel dimension does a president need to seek publicity!! ;D

He's a clown but he's not paid to be a comedian. Best leave that to Kevin Hart, Hannibal Burress or Seth Rogen.

While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Giving up any time to other publicity seeking clowns is taking time away from the issues. If Kanye West's presidential campaign for 2020 is in the forefront of his mind then you see what sort of problems the US faces.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:59:36 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 14, 2015, 10:30:18 AM
Just skimming through this thread.

Fox and Stew are complete lunatics.

Sin e.

Vote Democrats. Woo yeah.

Maybe that will convince you otherwise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 04:54:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
Now if that doesn't show he's a publicity seeking fool then I don't know what is. How about tackling the real issues that affect the citizens?

You mean he's a politician? They aren't really interested in other citizens...

The president is a publicity seeking fool?

The president is seeking publicity?

Really? Think about  this one now. The president of the United States thinks he needs *more* publicity?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2015, 04:54:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
Now if that doesn't show he's a publicity seeking fool then I don't know what is. How about tackling the real issues that affect the citizens?

You mean he's a politician? They aren't really interested in other citizens...

The president is a publicity seeking fool?

The president is seeking publicity?

Really? Think about  this one now. The president of the United States thinks he needs *more* publicity?

He sure does. Ego is out of control.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 03:09:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Barack Obama is so smart he can fart and chew gum at the same time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 06:01:37 PM

Right, because he can't take a second to make a joke AND do his job.

You must exist in a constant state of frothing outrage if THAT bothered you!

And in what parallel dimension does a president need to seek publicity!! ;D

He's a clown but he's not paid to be a comedian. Best leave that to Kevin Hart, Hannibal Burress or Seth Rogen.

While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Giving up any time to other publicity seeking clowns is taking time away from the issues. If Kanye West's presidential campaign for 2020 is in the forefront of his mind then you see what sort of problems the US faces.

That is complete and utter shite. All the politicians do these shows. Presidents are on duty 24 hours a day -just because they are doing an interview and, heaven help us, making a pop culture joke,  doesn't mean they and their team are not on top of whatever is going in. You think Bush wasn't making decisions while he was out on his ranch with his chainsaw? Or Reagan out on his horse.

Lets put it another way: are you not capable of having an opinion on GAA or whatever it is brings you here in addition to doing your job properly?

Pathetic!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 03:14:35 PM
Here ye are lads...

https://www.facebook.com/GilFulbright (https://www.facebook.com/GilFulbright)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2015, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 03:14:35 PM
Here ye are lads...

https://www.facebook.com/GilFulbright (https://www.facebook.com/GilFulbright)

;D

If only...!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 14, 2015, 03:51:38 PM
A lot of talk round here about Obama's lack of action in taxing the wealthy, without referring to the pledge -

Taxpayer Protection Pledge[edit]
Prior to the November 2012 election, 238 of 242 House Republicans and 41 out of 47 Senate Republicans had signed ATR's "Taxpayer Protection Pledge", in which the pledger promises to "oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rate for individuals and business; and to oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates."[31][32]

The November 6, 2012 elections resulted in a decline in the number of Taxpayer Protection Pledge signatories in both the upper and lower houses of the 113th Congress: from 41 to 39 in the Senate, and from 238 to "fewer than ... 218" in the House of Representatives.[33] According to journalist Alex Seitz-Wald, losses in the election by Norquist supporters and the "fiscal cliff" have emboldened and made more vocal critics of Norquist.[34]

In November 2011, Senate Majority leader Harry Reid (D-NV) blamed Norquist's influence for the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction's lack of progress, claiming that Congressional Republicans "are being led like puppets by Grover Norquist. They're giving speeches that we should compromise on our deficit, but never do they compromise on Grover Norquist. He is their leader."[35] Since Norquist's pledge binds signatories to opposing deficit reduction agreements that include any element of increased tax revenue, some Republican deficit hawks now retired from office have stated that Norquist has become an obstacle to deficit reduction.[36][37] Former Republican Senator Alan Simpson (R-WY), co-chairman of the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, has been particularly critical, describing Norquist's position as "[n]o taxes, under any situation, even if your country goes to hell."[5]

Sorry posters of a conservative bent, but once one of the parties is committed to this idiocy then there is nothing else Obama can do. Mitch McConnell vowed to get rid of Obama after one term, and committed his party to the lunatic course they have followed since. The narrative that both parties are as bad as each other is a false one and a couple f studies and books have recently come out championing that argument.

Absolutely nothing wrong with conservatism, but the Freedom Caucus are actually much closer in spirit to the Bolsheviks - they believe themselves a vanguard, revolutionary movement and they have zero respect for democracy as the gerrymandering of congressional districts and the rollback of the Voters right act proves. Throw in the misogyny on display from Todd Aiken, to Sandra Fluke to Planned Parenthood, the barely veiled racism of the Birthers etc and the enviromental blood lust as instanced by Keystone and the gutting of the EPA (originally set up by Nixon, for Christ's sake) and you have a party where Reagan and Nixon would struggle to replace Boehner. And you don't have to be American to be interested or worried because many of the decisons taken by American politicians impact directly upon us.

It's sad and scary to see what has happened to the Republicans, only a split into a hard right rump and a more moderate wing will save them in any form.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 14, 2015, 09:26:32 PM
Interesting summary of the first Dem debate
Hillary Clinton Wins Big in Vegas

By John Cassidy
   
Since Tuesday night's Democratic debate was held in a Las Vegas hotel, let's start with the money question: Who won and who lost?

Undoubtedly, Hillary Clinton was the biggest winner, partly because she was playing for the highest stakes. She flew into Nevada as a wounded favorite, whose stumbling performance during the past six months, much of it provoked by the issue of her personal e-mail server, had left many Democrats wondering whether she could get it together in time to win a nomination that was supposed to have been hers for the taking, let alone to win the general election. If she had come across as tetchy and defensive, as she has so often this year, or if she had committed an embarrassing verbal gaffe, the pressure on her would have increased still further, and the chances of Vice-President Joe Biden entering the race would have gone up.

Instead, Clinton delivered a performance that no doubt reminded establishment Democrats why they had rallied behind her in the first place, and reminded Republicans why she could prove to be a most formidable opponent come November, 2016. Sharp, personable, and assured, she batted off an early question from the moderator, Anderson Cooper, about her flip-flops on various issues, breezed through most of the subsequent exchanges, and received a big assist from her closest rival, Bernie Sanders, who, in perhaps the most memorable moment of the evening, declared, "The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails.... Enough of the e-mails. Let's talk about the real issues facing America."

Those comments earned the Vermont senator a warm handshake from Clinton and the biggest cheer of the night from a Democratic audience that was all too willing to believe her claim that the Republicans' pursuit of the e-mail matter is a political vendetta. Even Martin O'Malley, the former governor of Maryland, who in August said that the Republicans had raised legitimate issues about the e-mails, backed off, saying that he, too, was delighted to be discussing other issues.

Clinton, of course, would have been more than happy to talk about issues all night. As it became clear that none of the other candidates was going to take her down, she turned her fire on the Republicans, portraying them as dangerous extremists and saying, "They don't mind having big government to interfere with a woman's right to choose and to try to take down Planned Parenthood. They're fine with big government when it comes to that. I'm sick of it." That line earned Clinton her biggest cheers of the night.

The horse race apart, it was a substantive debate, with the candidates going into a level of detail that was rarely broached in the first two Republican debates. (Of course, there were many more candidates on stage at those events.) The matters raised ran the gamut, covering gun control, Syria, climate change, Black Lives Matter, Wall Street regulation, college funding, and paid leave for workers. On many of these issues, Clinton, Sanders, and O'Malley showed themselves to be in general agreement about what was needed, but also, in some cases, divided on how to achieve their shared goals.

That much we knew going in. Still, it was instructive to watch Sanders say, in response to a question from Cooper about whether he considers himself a capitalist, "Do I consider myself part of the casino-capitalist process, by which so few have so much and so many have so little, by which Wall Street's greed and recklessness wrecked this economy? No, I don't." And it was equally instructive, moments later, when Clinton said, "Well, let me just follow up on that, Anderson, because, when I think about capitalism, I think about all the small businesses that were started because we have the opportunity and the freedom in our country for people to do that and to make a good living for themselves and their families."

On foreign policy, too, the differences between the two front-runners came through clearly, despite the respectful attitude they adopted toward each other. Defending the Obama Administration's decision to provide military assistance to the Libyan rebels seeking to overthrow Muammar Qaddafi, Clinton described it as "smart power at its best." Unlike Jim Webb, the former senator from Virginia, Sanders didn't criticize the Libya decision, but he did express skepticism about U.S. military interventions generally, describing the Iraq invasion, which Clinton voted for, as "the worst foreign-policy blunder in the history of this country." He also said that he opposed the establishment of a no-fly zone in Syria, an idea that Clinton has supported.

All in all, the seventy-four-year-old senator from Vermont gave a good account of himself. In one sense, indeed, he made history. Not since Eugene Debs has a self-avowed socialist made such an impression in a Presidential race, in terms of the language he has invoked, the support he has garnered, and the impact his rise has had on the other candidates. Sanders's Brooklyn accent became more pronounced as the night went on, as he railed against the "oligawky" and denied having left anyone at the "altuh." (The latter statement was in reference to his refusal to support a 2007 immigration bill.) Afterward, he said that he wished he'd had more time to talk about rising inequality and the challenges it presents to democracy. In reality, though, he got his message through. "Here is the truth that very few candidates will say," he said in his closing statement. "Nobody up here—certainly no Republican—can address the major crises facing our country unless millions of people begin to stand up to the billionaire class that has so much power over our economy and our political life."

Of the second-string contenders, O'Malley fared by far the best. An articulate policy wonk, he held his own while debating the issues, and delivered the strongest closing statement, saying to those Americans who have become disillusioned about politics, "Talk to our young people under thirty, because you'll never find among them people that want to bash immigrants or people that want to deny rights to gay couples. That tells me we are moving to a more connected, generous, and compassionate place, and we need to speak to the goodness within our country."

By contrast, Webb and Lincoln Chafee, the former senator from Rhode Island, both looked and sounded terribly out of place. Webb started out by becoming possibly the first Democratic candidate in recent memory to boast of his service in the Reagan Administration (he worked in the Pentagon). Thereafter, he spent a lot of time grouching about how little time he was being allotted. Chafee stumbled badly in trying to explain why he voted, in 1999, to repeal the Glass–Steagall Act, which separated commercial banking from investment banking. Neither man looked like he would be around for long, though Webb did get off one good line: "Bernie, I don't think the revolution's going to come. And I don't think the Congress is going to pay for a lot of this stuff."

Clinton didn't have the passion of Sanders or the poetry of O'Malley's sign-off, but she had something else: the self-confidence and killer instinct of a politician who has been down this route before. Early on, before Sanders helped her out with his comment about her e-mails, she stuck it to him in his most vulnerable area: his record on gun control. She pointed out that he voted five times against the Brady Bill, which required a federal background check and a five-day waiting period for gun purchases. She also ridiculed his answer to a question from Cooper about why he had supported an immunity provision for the manufacturers of guns used to commit violent crimes. "It wasn't that complicated to me," Clinton said, after Sanders called the bill a complicated one. "It was pretty straightforward to me that he was going to give immunity."

The Democratic front-runner also demonstrated the hawkish streak that infuriates some progressives and sometimes earns her grudging respect from Republicans. Asked about Edward Snowden, she repeated the discredited argument that he could have invoked whistle-blower status, and said that he had stolen a lot of information that had fallen into enemy hands. "So I don't think he should be brought home without facing the music," she concluded. (Ari Fleischer, a former spokesman for President George W. Bush, tweeted, "Good for Hillary on Snowden.")

In her closing statement, Clinton said that she wanted to get back to "the basic bargain I was raised with: if you work hard and you do your part, you should be able to get ahead and stay ahead." That, of course, is an entirely familiar Democratic trope. When Bill Clinton was running for President, it was dubbed the "New Covenant." President Obama often expressed it in terms of rewarding "hardworking folks" who "play by the rules." In this case, though, familiarity is unlikely to breed contempt—at least among the moderate and loyal Democrats whom Clinton needs to support her. Bill Clinton and President Obama won four elections between them. For one night, at least, Hillary Clinton gave Democrats reason to believe that she might be ready to follow their example.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2015, 09:41:21 PM
https://youtu.be/OCc-F80PHPE

Won the debate? she didn't even make it through the first question, she is a flip flopping machine and I am amazed she was unprepared for Coopers first question.

I thought Saunders did really well, so did Clinton although I am praying Biden enters the fray, he would be a far better human being and President than that bitch from hell.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 14, 2015, 10:01:06 PM
QuoteWon the debate? she didn't even make it through the first question, she is a flip flopping machine and I am amazed she was unprepared for Coopers first question.

I didn't see the full debate and only posted that article as a contribution but as an outside observer I thought she answered that question well, particularly the last 30 seconds of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2015, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 14, 2015, 10:01:06 PM
QuoteWon the debate? she didn't even make it through the first question, she is a flip flopping machine and I am amazed she was unprepared for Coopers first question.

I didn't see the full debate and only posted that article as a contribution but as an outside observer I thought she answered that question well, particularly the last 30 seconds of it.

I did and how can you answer the question well Declan when you contradict yourself as much as she has, she did well in the fact  always,that he should have asked her a follow up question about being a progressive or a moderate, something like, ok Hillary, so you are saying you are a progressive? Yes, then why would you say less than two months ago you were a moderate? He took it easy on her and she was allowed to get her spiel out uninterupted, I really like Cooper, I think he does a tremendous job and is very professional, but last night he took it easy on her I thought, he asked some of the tough questions but not all and his lack of follow up questions suited her the best.

I would like to know why she never called back the mother of the serviceman as she promised to do whose son was pleading for backup, she wanted to know the truth about how her son really died, Clinton promised her she would call her back and never did. I wonder why that was.


Benghazi questions, Ethical questions, she should have been hammered on the email scandal, there are just so many areas of opportunity to show this ratbag up for what she is, as for the rest of them up there last night, being nice to each other is not going to take that bitch down, Saunders did well but is going to need to go after her before too long.

I can see Biden joining the fray late, I also think he is a bumbling fool who cant take his foot out of his mouth half the time but I will take anyone, and I mean anyone over that unctuous bastard HC.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 15, 2015, 12:18:48 AM
Quote from: stew on October 14, 2015, 09:41:21 PM
https://youtu.be/OCc-F80PHPE

Won the debate? she didn't even make it through the first question, she is a flip flopping machine and I am amazed she was unprepared for Coopers first question.

I thought Saunders did really well, so did Clinton although I am praying Biden enters the fray, he would be a far better human being and President than that bitch from hell.

So she didn't make it through the first question but also did really well?!  :o  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:19:33 AM
https://youtu.be/OCc-F80PHPE

One irate mother who lost a son three years ago still cannot get a promised answer from Clinton, the woman is toe Jam.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:36:54 AM
Quote from: Declan on October 14, 2015, 10:01:06 PM
QuoteWon the debate? she didn't even make it through the first question, she is a flip flopping machine and I am amazed she was unprepared for Coopers first question.

I didn't see the full debate and only posted that article as a contribution but as an outside observer I thought she answered that question well, particularly the last 30 seconds of it.

She was dire for the first two minutes however, after she settled down and got the applause she did as well as you would expect given the prep she would have been given.

They threw a lot of softballs at her last night, the going will get tougher soon enough and I cant wait.

Anybody but Clinton or Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 03:38:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 06:01:37 PM

Right, because he can't take a second to make a joke AND do his job.

You must exist in a constant state of frothing outrage if THAT bothered you!

And in what parallel dimension does a president need to seek publicity!! ;D

He's a clown but he's not paid to be a comedian. Best leave that to Kevin Hart, Hannibal Burress or Seth Rogen.

While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Giving up any time to other publicity seeking clowns is taking time away from the issues. If Kanye West's presidential campaign for 2020 is in the forefront of his mind then you see what sort of problems the US faces.

That is complete and utter shite. All the politicians do these shows. Presidents are on duty 24 hours a day -just because they are doing an interview and, heaven help us, making a pop culture joke,  doesn't mean they and their team are not on top of whatever is going in. You think Bush wasn't making decisions while he was out on his ranch with his chainsaw? Or Reagan out on his horse.

Lets put it another way: are you not capable of having an opinion on GAA or whatever it is brings you here in addition to doing your job properly?

Pathetic!

You'll go to some lengths to justify the Kenyans poor showing. I commend you for your blind loyalty.
I wouldn't mind if he was actually funny. Just smacks of being as cringeworthy as Tony Blair's Britpop flirtation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2015, 07:04:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Oh sweet mother of God. Did someone actually just say this and mean it?

Right. If only. If only he'd worked on his foreign policy. If only he'd done something to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon while undermining the hardliners in Tehran. If only he'd repaired relations with America's allies after the damage done by Bush. If only he'd killed Osama Bin Laden. If only he'd worked with his allies to oust Colonel Gaddafi without losing a single American soldier.

Oh that's right, he did all of those things.

The mind of a Fox News viewer is a frightening place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 15, 2015, 08:17:44 AM
http://usuncut.com/politics/6-reasons-bernie-sanders-actually-owned-the-debate-despite-what-pundits-claim/ (http://usuncut.com/politics/6-reasons-bernie-sanders-actually-owned-the-debate-despite-what-pundits-claim/)
Good man Bernie
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 15, 2015, 08:49:50 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 03:38:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 06:01:37 PM

Right, because he can't take a second to make a joke AND do his job.

You must exist in a constant state of frothing outrage if THAT bothered you!

And in what parallel dimension does a president need to seek publicity!! ;D

He's a clown but he's not paid to be a comedian. Best leave that to Kevin Hart, Hannibal Burress or Seth Rogen.

While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Giving up any time to other publicity seeking clowns is taking time away from the issues. If Kanye West's presidential campaign for 2020 is in the forefront of his mind then you see what sort of problems the US faces.

That is complete and utter shite. All the politicians do these shows. Presidents are on duty 24 hours a day -just because they are doing an interview and, heaven help us, making a pop culture joke,  doesn't mean they and their team are not on top of whatever is going in. You think Bush wasn't making decisions while he was out on his ranch with his chainsaw? Or Reagan out on his horse.

Lets put it another way: are you not capable of having an opinion on GAA or whatever it is brings you here in addition to doing your job properly?

Pathetic!

You'll go to some lengths to justify the Kenyans poor showing. I commend you for your blind loyalty.
I wouldn't mind if he was actually funny. Just smacks of being as cringeworthy as Tony Blair's Britpop flirtation.

Nothing like a bit of casual racism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 12:27:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 03:38:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 06:01:37 PM

Right, because he can't take a second to make a joke AND do his job.

You must exist in a constant state of frothing outrage if THAT bothered you!

And in what parallel dimension does a president need to seek publicity!! ;D

He's a clown but he's not paid to be a comedian. Best leave that to Kevin Hart, Hannibal Burress or Seth Rogen.

While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Giving up any time to other publicity seeking clowns is taking time away from the issues. If Kanye West's presidential campaign for 2020 is in the forefront of his mind then you see what sort of problems the US faces.

That is complete and utter shite. All the politicians do these shows. Presidents are on duty 24 hours a day -just because they are doing an interview and, heaven help us, making a pop culture joke,  doesn't mean they and their team are not on top of whatever is going in. You think Bush wasn't making decisions while he was out on his ranch with his chainsaw? Or Reagan out on his horse.

Lets put it another way: are you not capable of having an opinion on GAA or whatever it is brings you here in addition to doing your job properly?

Pathetic!

You'll go to some lengths to justify the Kenyans poor showing. I commend you for your blind loyalty.
I wouldn't mind if he was actually funny. Just smacks of being as cringeworthy as Tony Blair's Britpop flirtation.

"The Kenyan"?

What a pathetic little fellow you are when all you've got is name-calling!

And I haven't defended Obama's perceived poor job performance. I've been ridiculing your bullshit complaining about Obama going on a talk show and commenting on Kanye West.

If you have issues with points of policy, fire away. At least that might be legitimate (I'll not be holding my breath though),  unlike the shite you're currently throwing at the wall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 12:54:00 PM
Black lives matter or all lives matter, four out of the five said black lives matter, Clinton and the seventy four year old lunatic sanders both were emphatic. Black lives matter to them, disturbing to say the least. This movement is the far left version of the far rights tea party.

Hillary is going to attack capitalism.......... Sure she is, in a few days she is going to be asked some very tough questions by some very serious people and it is my fervent hope they drag her lying ass to jail like they should, the authorities cannot simply get sick and tired of her damn emails, they are kind if important and she effed up big time.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 01:03:16 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 15, 2015, 08:49:50 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 03:38:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 06:01:37 PM

Right, because he can't take a second to make a joke AND do his job.

You must exist in a constant state of frothing outrage if THAT bothered you!

And in what parallel dimension does a president need to seek publicity!! ;D

He's a clown but he's not paid to be a comedian. Best leave that to Kevin Hart, Hannibal Burress or Seth Rogen.

While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Giving up any time to other publicity seeking clowns is taking time away from the issues. If Kanye West's presidential campaign for 2020 is in the forefront of his mind then you see what sort of problems the US faces.

That is complete and utter shite. All the politicians do these shows. Presidents are on duty 24 hours a day -just because they are doing an interview and, heaven help us, making a pop culture joke,  doesn't mean they and their team are not on top of whatever is going in. You think Bush wasn't making decisions while he was out on his ranch with his chainsaw? Or Reagan out on his horse.

Lets put it another way: are you not capable of having an opinion on GAA or whatever it is brings you here in addition to doing your job properly?

Pathetic!

You'll go to some lengths to justify the Kenyans poor showing. I commend you for your blind loyalty.
I wouldn't mind if he was actually funny. Just smacks of being as cringeworthy as Tony Blair's Britpop flirtation.

Nothing like a bit of casual racism.

What about black lives matter, was that racism when eighty percent on the debaters chose black lives matter over all lives matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 12:54:00 PM
Black lives matter or all lives matter, four out of the five said black lives matter, Clinton and the seventy four year old lunatic sanders both were emphatic. Black lives matter to them, disturbing to say

This issue is not about elevating the value of black lives over all lives. It's about black lives mattering as much as all other lives.  Basically "black lives matter TOO". And given the relative abuse they suffer at the hands of the police and the justice system, which all came to a head and triggered this movement, it's a legitimate sentiment.

This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

But yeah, of course all lives matter.  No one is saying otherwise. It's just that maybe black lives should matter just as much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2015, 07:04:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Oh sweet mother of God. Did someone actually just say this and mean it?

Right. If only. If only he'd worked on his foreign policy. If only he'd done something to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon while undermining the hardliners in Tehran. If only he'd repaired relations with America's allies after the damage done by Bush. If only he'd killed Osama Bin Laden. If only he'd worked with his allies to oust Colonel Gaddafi without losing a single American soldier.

Oh that's right, he did all of those things.

The mind of a Fox News viewer is a frightening place.

Trump is doing SNL, nothing to see here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Insisting that "All lives matter"in the US context is the equivalent of how Unionist politicians would always drag up some other atrocity whenever Bloody Sunday crossed their path. They didn't give two hoots about the Taigs rubbed out by their brave boys, just as mainstream Republicans - not the extremists - don't care when some 'Kenyan' is taken out by their brave boys.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:24:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Insisting that "All lives matter"in the US context is the equivalent of how Unionist politicians would always drag up some other atrocity whenever Bloody Sunday crossed their path. They didn't give two hoots about the Taigs rubbed out by their brave boys, just as mainstream Republicans - not the extremists - don't care when some 'Kenyan' is taken out by their brave boys.

Yep, it's a distraction to downplay and delegitimize the real issues when it comes to the justice system and blacks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 01:41:33 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Insisting that "All lives matter"in the US context is the equivalent of how Unionist politicians would always drag up some other atrocity whenever Bloody Sunday crossed their path. They didn't give two hoots about the Taigs rubbed out by their brave boys, just as mainstream Republicans - not the extremists - don't care when some 'Kenyan' is taken out by their brave boys.

It is a simple question and they blew it, only two people on the left matter in the dems that are running and neither of the top two had it in them to say all lives matter, disturbing.

To me it is amazing what has happened to the aura of the office of president of the United States, it started to erode with Nixon and his tremendous paranoia that ended up known to the world as Watergate and although there were a few bumper stickers denouncing Carter and the subsequent presidents things really kicked into high gear under Clinton after he had Lewinski blowing him in the White House, from there you had W and he got dogs abuse and now under president Obama the walls are crumbling down, the fact that Trump has even got a sniff to me is amazing but it is a sign of the times, people no longer want upright moral citizens, they want change, Clinton the other night talked about being an outsider because she was a woman and she should be elected because she is a woman and different from the other wannabee's, problem is, the Republicans have one of those too only this one is not dragged down with the deaths of four servicemen for not giving them the help they begged for, not immersed in an email scandal were top secret documents were there for the taking because she did not want to carry two devices and put the country at risk, not to mention people all over the world working for her and the Country. I could go on and on but she is a massive part of the establishment and she is going to get eaten alive on these issues if she ever gets to meet a Republican, she is a flip flopping political whore who will say anything to get elected, one last thing, Saunders at least came on the stage a Socialist/communist, Clinton joined him by the nights end but watch, she will slip back into moderate after getting elected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:00:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 12:54:00 PM
Black lives matter or all lives matter, four out of the five said black lives matter, Clinton and the seventy four year old lunatic sanders both were emphatic. Black lives matter to them, disturbing to say

This issue is not about elevating the value of black lives over all lives. It's about black lives mattering as much as all other lives.  Basically "black lives matter TOO". And given the relative abuse they suffer at the hands of the police and the justice system, which all came to a head and triggered this movement, it's a legitimate sentiment.

This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Come on, the white longing for victimhood, that is bollocks, you cant believe this crap you are spewing?

But yeah, of course all lives matter.  No one is saying otherwise. It's just that maybe black lives should matter just as much.

J70 they just did just say that, it is not complicated! they had a simple choice, all lives matter or black lives matter, they chose black lives matter.

Clinton and Saunders BOTH SAID BLACK LIVES MATTER, that is a fact, in fact there were smatterings of boo's when the one guy said all lives matter and he ended up apologizing for saying it!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 02:03:27 PM
Email concerns may be legit, but NONE of the numerous Benghazi investigations have supported ANY of the "allegations" against Clinton.  Interesting too that TWO Republicans have admitted in the past couple of weeks that they are nothing but political witch hunts out to nail Hillary.

And the All Lives Matter stuff is just willful ignorance and fake outrage. .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 02:04:58 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:00:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 12:54:00 PM
Black lives matter or all lives matter, four out of the five said black lives matter, Clinton and the seventy four year old lunatic sanders both were emphatic. Black lives matter to them, disturbing to say

This issue is not about elevating the value of black lives over all lives. It's about black lives mattering as much as all other lives.  Basically "black lives matter TOO". And given the relative abuse they suffer at the hands of the police and the justice system, which all came to a head and triggered this movement, it's a legitimate sentiment.

This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Come on, the white longing for victimhood, that is bollocks, you cant believe this crap you are spewing?

But yeah, of course all lives matter.  No one is saying otherwise. It's just that maybe black lives should matter just as much.

J70 they just did just say that, it is not complicated! they had a simple choice, all lives matter or black lives matter, they chose black lives matter.

Clinton and Saunders BOTH SAID BLACK LIVES MATTER, that is a fact, in fact there were smatterings of boo's when the one guy said all lives matter and he ended up apologizing for saying it!

Did you even read what I wrote?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 02:03:27 PM
Email concerns may be legit, but NONE of the numerous Benghazi investigations have supported ANY of the "allegations" against Clinton.  Interesting too that TWO Republicans have admitted in the past couple of weeks that they are nothing but political witch hunts out to nail Hillary.

And the All Lives Matter stuff is just willful ignorance and fake outrage. .

Then why can she not call the mother of one of the dead soldiers back after promising to? Her non action sealed the woman's son's fate and got three more men killed.

The Clinton foundation is as shady as fook also, they have taken money from all over the middle east and while Hilly was banging on about elect me cause I am woman I could not stop thinking about the fact that for example, she has taken millions of dollars for their foundation yet has feck all to say on for example the UEE's repugnant treatment of women in their society.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Insisting that "All lives matter"in the US context is the equivalent of how Unionist politicians would always drag up some other atrocity whenever Bloody Sunday crossed their path. They didn't give two hoots about the Taigs rubbed out by their brave boys, just as mainstream Republicans - not the extremists - don't care when some 'Kenyan' is taken out by their brave boys.

Bullshit, it is highlighting that the country needs to come together as one instead of a divisive organization that only has singular interest in their own lives and seemingly no interest in people of any other race of beings.
In Chicago right now crime is on the rise because cops are afraid to do their jobs, their own Mayor has turned on them and they feel isolated and morale is low, I for one cant blame them, not too long ago black lives matter protesters were singing a nice we ditty about rolling pigs in a blanket and setting them afire, those f**kers should have been locked up for incitement to hatred.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 02:03:27 PM
Email concerns may be legit, but NONE of the numerous Benghazi investigations have supported ANY of the "allegations" against Clinton.  Interesting too that TWO Republicans have admitted in the past couple of weeks that they are nothing but political witch hunts out to nail Hillary.

And the All Lives Matter stuff is just willful ignorance and fake outrage. .

Then why can she not call the mother of one of the dead soldiers back after promising to? Her non action sealed the woman's son's fate and got three more men killed.

The Clinton foundation is as shady as fook also, they have taken money from all over the middle east and while Hilly was banging on about elect me cause I am woman I could not stop thinking about the fact that for example, she has taken millions of dollars for their foundation yet has feck all to say on for example the UEE's repugnant treatment of women in their society.

Stew, if you evidence of how her non - action sealed those guys fates, then present it.

As for the ME connections, you do realize she was Secretary of State, and diplomacy can necessitate holding your nose when having to cooperate with other countries.

Not saying she is not a hypocrite (I doubt if many politicians are not, given how often they have to thread the needle). I have no idea what she has and has not said on UAE or Saudi or any other country's treatment of women.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 15, 2015, 02:22:55 PM
So where was 'All Lives Matter' before Black Lives Matter became a cause celebré. It's obviously a reactionary, and I'd say more than a bit racially charged, campaign.

I don't agree with a lot of what Black Lives Matter have done and said, I think they themselves may be driving a bigger wedge between the races. It really does need an 'All Lives Matter' approach, but a genuine All Lives Matter, not just a 'how dare them blacks have that, lets start one of our own'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Insisting that "All lives matter"in the US context is the equivalent of how Unionist politicians would always drag up some other atrocity whenever Bloody Sunday crossed their path. They didn't give two hoots about the Taigs rubbed out by their brave boys, just as mainstream Republicans - not the extremists - don't care when some 'Kenyan' is taken out by their brave boys.

Bullshit, it is highlighting that the country needs to come together as one instead of a divisive organization that only has singular interest in their own lives and seemingly no interest in people of any other race of beings.
In Chicago right now crime is on the rise because cops are afraid to do their jobs, their own Mayor has turned on them and they feel isolated and morale is low, I for one cant blame them, not too long ago black lives matter protesters were singing a nice we ditty about rolling pigs in a blanket and setting them afire, those f**kers should have been locked up for incitement to hatred.

Tell us stew, why did the Black Lives Matter movement start?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:33:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Insisting that "All lives matter"in the US context is the equivalent of how Unionist politicians would always drag up some other atrocity whenever Bloody Sunday crossed their path. They didn't give two hoots about the Taigs rubbed out by their brave boys, just as mainstream Republicans - not the extremists - don't care when some 'Kenyan' is taken out by their brave boys.

Bullshit, it is highlighting that the country needs to come together as one instead of a divisive organization that only has singular interest in their own lives and seemingly no interest in people of any other race of beings.
In Chicago right now crime is on the rise because cops are afraid to do their jobs, their own Mayor has turned on them and they feel isolated and morale is low, I for one cant blame them, not too long ago black lives matter protesters were singing a nice we ditty about rolling pigs in a blanket and setting them afire, those f**kers should have been locked up for incitement to hatred.

Tell us stew, why did the Black Lives Matter movement start?

The Trayvon Martin killing had a lot to do with it, hot on the heels of that came several other high profile killings of black youth? Zimmerman getting off did not help, it was born of outrage at black kids dying on the streets, they say, just because they were black.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 02:55:30 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 15, 2015, 08:49:50 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 03:38:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2015, 06:01:37 PM

Right, because he can't take a second to make a joke AND do his job.

You must exist in a constant state of frothing outrage if THAT bothered you!

And in what parallel dimension does a president need to seek publicity!! ;D

He's a clown but he's not paid to be a comedian. Best leave that to Kevin Hart, Hannibal Burress or Seth Rogen.

While he's busy doing talk shows like Ellen he could have been working on his foreign policy.

Giving up any time to other publicity seeking clowns is taking time away from the issues. If Kanye West's presidential campaign for 2020 is in the forefront of his mind then you see what sort of problems the US faces.

That is complete and utter shite. All the politicians do these shows. Presidents are on duty 24 hours a day -just because they are doing an interview and, heaven help us, making a pop culture joke,  doesn't mean they and their team are not on top of whatever is going in. You think Bush wasn't making decisions while he was out on his ranch with his chainsaw? Or Reagan out on his horse.

Lets put it another way: are you not capable of having an opinion on GAA or whatever it is brings you here in addition to doing your job properly?

Pathetic!

You'll go to some lengths to justify the Kenyans poor showing. I commend you for your blind loyalty.
I wouldn't mind if he was actually funny. Just smacks of being as cringeworthy as Tony Blair's Britpop flirtation.

Nothing like a bit of casual racism.

Kenyan = someone from Kenya. Not sure how you came to your conclusion.

You PC bro?

(http://i.imgur.com/OEJiekH.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 03:38:24 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:33:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Insisting that "All lives matter"in the US context is the equivalent of how Unionist politicians would always drag up some other atrocity whenever Bloody Sunday crossed their path. They didn't give two hoots about the Taigs rubbed out by their brave boys, just as mainstream Republicans - not the extremists - don't care when some 'Kenyan' is taken out by their brave boys.

Bullshit, it is highlighting that the country needs to come together as one instead of a divisive organization that only has singular interest in their own lives and seemingly no interest in people of any other race of beings.
In Chicago right now crime is on the rise because cops are afraid to do their jobs, their own Mayor has turned on them and they feel isolated and morale is low, I for one cant blame them, not too long ago black lives matter protesters were singing a nice we ditty about rolling pigs in a blanket and setting them afire, those f**kers should have been locked up for incitement to hatred.

Tell us stew, why did the Black Lives Matter movement start?

The Trayvon Martin killing had a lot to do with it, hot on the heels of that came several other high profile killings of black youth? Zimmerman getting off did not help, it was born of outrage at black kids dying on the streets, they say, just because they were black.

You seem to have some understanding of how the movement arose. Why the misinterpretation then that they are claiming ONLY black lives matter?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 15, 2015, 02:22:55 PM
So where was 'All Lives Matter' before Black Lives Matter became a cause celebré. It's obviously a reactionary, and I'd say more than a bit racially charged, campaign.

I don't agree with a lot of what Black Lives Matter have done and said, I think they themselves may be driving a bigger wedge between the races. It really does need an 'All Lives Matter' approach, but a genuine All Lives Matter, not just a 'how dare them blacks have that, lets start one of our own'.

Well said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 04:04:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 15, 2015, 02:22:55 PM
So where was 'All Lives Matter' before Black Lives Matter became a cause celebré. It's obviously a reactionary, and I'd say more than a bit racially charged, campaign.

I don't agree with a lot of what Black Lives Matter have done and said, I think they themselves may be driving a bigger wedge between the races. It really does need an 'All Lives Matter' approach, but a genuine All Lives Matter, not just a 'how dare them blacks have that, lets start one of our own'.

Well said.

+1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 04:06:05 PM
Some absolutely crazy stuff on this thread.

The only people who should be apologizing to the Benghazi relatives are the Republicans who insist on exhuming their memories over and over again for political purposes and obscuring the real reasons for their death (all the above is by the Republicans own admission).

Fox, trying to use "PC gone mad" as an excuse for racism is as old as the hills. Cop yourself on. Here's a nice link for you. You've got to laugh.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCAQtwIwAGoVChMI24jlj-DEyAIVC1Q-Ch3XIQ07&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbmsV1TuESrc&usg=AFQjCNFKMkLAJDqoXYbpvv0rBBr0zg_2Dg&bvm=bv.105039540,d.cWw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 15, 2015, 04:39:36 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 01:41:33 PM

clinton on the other night talked about being an outsider because she was a woman and she should be elected because she is a woman and different from the other wannabee's, problem is, the Republicans have one of those too only this one is not dragged down with the deaths of four servicemen for not giving them the help they begged for, not immersed in an email scandal were top secret documents were there for the taking because she did not want to carry two devices and put the country at risk, not to mention people all over the world working for her and the Country. I could go on and on but she is a massive part of the establishment and she is going to get eaten alive on these issues if she ever gets to meet a Republican, she is a flip flopping political whore who will say anything to get elected, one last thing, Saunders at least came on the stage a Socialist/communist, Clinton joined him by the nights end but watch, she will slip back into moderate after getting elected.

Stew,
I wouldnt be the biggest Hilary fan, but Carly? You have got to be kidding me?

If Clinton ever meets a Republican she'll get eaten alive on the email issue? I really cant see it. The US government has been monitoring everybodys email for years. If this is such a big deal how was it missed?

Benghazi is the this years swift boat.

Flip flopping whore? I know that changing your mind is not apparently allowed in US politics, but can you give me one good reason why?

I dont see a single outstanding candidate in the field, im beginning to think Bloomberg!

Some of the runners this time around are pure shite. Trump, Carly, carson, how can the republicans not find an electable candidate? They cant even find a speaker and thats just their own party voting. Republican incompetence is going to gift the Democrats another presidential election

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 03:38:24 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:33:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
This "All lives matter" shite is all a part of this supposed white Christian male persecution, this white longing for victimhood fomented by Fox News and the right wing machine. The politics of white resentment,  which seems to be the current modus operandi for the GOP.

Insisting that "All lives matter"in the US context is the equivalent of how Unionist politicians would always drag up some other atrocity whenever Bloody Sunday crossed their path. They didn't give two hoots about the Taigs rubbed out by their brave boys, just as mainstream Republicans - not the extremists - don't care when some 'Kenyan' is taken out by their brave boys.

Bullshit, it is highlighting that the country needs to come together as one instead of a divisive organization that only has singular interest in their own lives and seemingly no interest in people of any other race of beings.
In Chicago right now crime is on the rise because cops are afraid to do their jobs, their own Mayor has turned on them and they feel isolated and morale is low, I for one cant blame them, not too long ago black lives matter protesters were singing a nice we ditty about rolling pigs in a blanket and setting them afire, those f**kers should have been locked up for incitement to hatred.

Tell us stew, why did the Black Lives Matter movement start?

The Trayvon Martin killing had a lot to do with it, hot on the heels of that came several other high profile killings of black youth? Zimmerman getting off did not help, it was born of outrage at black kids dying on the streets, they say, just because they were black.

You seem to have some understanding of how the movement arose. Why the misinterpretation then that they are claiming ONLY black lives matter?

Four  liberals running for the highest office in the land were given a choice by a liberal host of the debate, the choices were simple, do blacks lives matter or do ALL lives matter, they chose black lives matter, that is cowardice and political whoring, they chose the divisive path over the right one, and you lot want these dolts running the country!

As for the organization itself, I understand the frustration that led to the formation of this movement, since the inception of this country black people have been enslaved, denied equal rights (especially by the democrat slave plantation owners) and they have been treated horribly by the Klan, the Government, by litigators (separate but equal) and by employers and society in general, MLK was a great leader, their greatest if you ask me and he did things the right way until shot dead by white men, Malcolm X took a different path and paid the ultimate price and now, after young Martin got killed the people once again rose up, I believe the leaders of this group did a great job highlighting their cause, especially since they got four very powerful white liberals to state that Black lives matter in a national debate, the problem is simple, the right answer is that all lives matter, it helps them not that the movement is hijacked by scum who want to kill police officers and who chant obscene rhetoric that is tantamount to uttering hate crimes, yet nothing gets done.

Finally, if ever a country needed to right itself and have it's ONLY two parties come to the center it is the USA, the liberals that think the democrat party is now sprinting to the left are deluding themselves, the republican party is sprinting to the far right and i find that deplorable, what is also deplorable are the amount on here who seem to think that the dems are right and the republicans are wrong, on every issue, or almost every issue, that is not just wrong, that is ignorant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 05:04:05 PM
Stew, the question was clearly referring to the "controversy". Given that the All Lives Matter retort is transparently an attempt to delegitimize the Black Lives Matter cause,  the candidates answered correctly.

That unsavoury elements may have got involved in the movement or latched onto it's coattails is a separate issue.

I don't think the Dems are right on everything.  I just think they're a fairly nornal, centrist party, with all the usual bullshit and scandal you get with political parties. The GOP, on the other hand, has wandered off into John Birch, know-nothing, nativist, reactionary lunacy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 15, 2015, 04:39:36 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 01:41:33 PM

clinton on the other night talked about being an outsider because she was a woman and she should be elected because she is a woman and different from the other wannabee's, problem is, the Republicans have one of those too only this one is not dragged down with the deaths of four servicemen for not giving them the help they begged for, not immersed in an email scandal were top secret documents were there for the taking because she did not want to carry two devices and put the country at risk, not to mention people all over the world working for her and the Country. I could go on and on but she is a massive part of the establishment and she is going to get eaten alive on these issues if she ever gets to meet a Republican, she is a flip flopping political whore who will say anything to get elected, one last thing, Saunders at least came on the stage a Socialist/communist, Clinton joined him by the nights end but watch, she will slip back into moderate after getting elected.



Stew,
I wouldnt be the biggest Hilary fan, but Carly? You have got to be kidding me?

If Clinton ever meets a Republican she'll get eaten alive on the email issue? I really cant see it. The US government has been monitoring everybodys email for years. If this is such a big deal how was it missed?

Benghazi is the this years swift boat.

Flip flopping whore? I know that changing your mind is not apparently allowed in US politics, but can you give me one good reason why?

I dont see a single outstanding candidate in the field, im beginning to think Bloomberg!

Some of the runners this time around are pure shite. Trump, Carly, carson, how can the republicans not find an electable candidate? They cant even find a speaker and that's just their own party voting. Republican incompetence is going to gift the Democrats another presidential election

Clinton is electable??? 60% in some polls show they don't believe she is trustworthy, she is a political animal who will get a pass on Benghazi and the email scandals because she was married to Bubba, you know, the former President.

The American military is under attack from this government, that is not good, they need a strong leader not a Clinton or Saunders, imagine what would happen the policing bodies around the country, things will get worse, 2 million  more black people are homeless  than there were 7 years ago, Black Lives Matter.

The liberals cannot find a decent candidate and I would take any of the GOP candidates over Clinton, probably even Trump but I would have to think long and hard on that one.

I want to see Biden run and gut Clinton, he will get the presidents blessing which given his popularity would probably hurt him but at least he would be better than Clinton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 05:17:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 05:04:05 PM
Stew, the question was clearly referring to the "controversy". Given that the All Lives Matter retort is transparently an attempt to delegitimize the Black Lives Matter cause,  the candidates answered correctly.

That unsavoury elements may have got involved in the movement or latched onto it's coattails is a separate issue.

I don't think the Dems are right on everything.  I just think they're a fairly nornal, centrist party, with all the usual bullshit and scandal you get with political parties. The GOP, on the other hand, has wandered off into John Birch, know-nothing, nativist, reactionary lunacy.

What part of taking profits from companies and redistribution of wealth is a moderate thing to do?

These people want to give illegal aliens free education when the national debt is 18.5 trillion dollars.

Free cellphones for all, free this, free that, there is no such thing as free anything anymore, someone is paying the price the last thing this shower should be doing is having the country dispense free college degrees to those that have no right to be there in the first place! I paid $126,000 for me and my two girls to get our degree's, I have paid over $40,000 in taxes alone this year and you are going to allow someone to walk in to the country and add to the incredible national debt by allowing them to get free degrees? The mind boggles.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 05:17:03 PM
I have paid over $40,000 in taxes alone this year and you are going to allow someone to walk in to the country and add to the incredible national debt by allowing them to get free degrees? The mind boggles.

Why work and pay taxes like a chump when you can stick your hand out and ask for everything for free.
Happens both sides of the atlantic.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 05:33:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 05:17:03 PM
I have paid over $40,000 in taxes alone this year and you are going to allow someone to walk in to the country and add to the incredible national debt by allowing them to get free degrees? The mind boggles.

Why work and pay taxes like a chump when you can stick your hand out and ask for everything for free.
Happens both sides of the atlantic.

In fairness I sold the business and I paid the feds just under 30 grand, the State got $12,000 it is only October, still plenty more to come to help pay the free College for the illegals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 05:34:01 PM
Despite huge pressure from the left of his own party Barack Obama bailed out the big banks after Lehmans was let go (which was on Bush's watch). Now, no matter what your views on the "too big to fail" philosophy his actions towards the banks and the auto industry undoubtedly stabilised ("saved?") the existing system. To accuse him of destroying capitalism is a complete misunderstanding of his actions, and as for redistribution of wealth, his critics on the left would accuse him of socialising the debts of banks and redistributing wealth to the 1% rather than the other way around. Read "Too Big To Fail" by Andrew Ross Sorkin, it's a great over view of the crisis.

I think Obama will be remembered as a centrist who wanted to work in a bi -partisian manner, too much during his first term. The actions of the Republicans who vowed from his very first day to destroy him, and who tried to stymie him on every issue were rooted in race. It is a period that American conservatives should be ashamed of, and instead of destroying him, they have destroyed themselves as a governing party.

I think the GOPs main hope is that Rubio comes through the dogfights of the primaries and tacks to the centre once nominated - but I just think that the candidates have to pander way too much to the base, and it makes it so easy for the Dems to pick them off, come the general election. The reverse is not true for the Dems, which would speak to the fact that they have never approached the extremism of the Republicans. In this case the existence of Fox News is actually an advantage to the Dems - they have demonised moderate liberal positions so much that there has never been a chance for a radical left to emerge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 05:58:42 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 05:17:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 05:04:05 PM
Stew, the question was clearly referring to the "controversy". Given that the All Lives Matter retort is transparently an attempt to delegitimize the Black Lives Matter cause,  the candidates answered correctly.

That unsavoury elements may have got involved in the movement or latched onto it's coattails is a separate issue.

I don't think the Dems are right on everything.  I just think they're a fairly nornal, centrist party, with all the usual bullshit and scandal you get with political parties. The GOP, on the other hand, has wandered off into John Birch, know-nothing, nativist, reactionary lunacy.

What part of taking profits from companies and redistribution of wealth is a moderate thing to do?

These people want to give illegal aliens free education when the national debt is 18.5 trillion dollars.

Free cellphones for all, free this, free that, there is no such thing as free anything anymore, someone is paying the price the last thing this shower should be doing is having the country dispense free college degrees to those that have no right to be there in the first place! I paid $126,000 for me and my two girls to get our degree's, I have paid over $40,000 in taxes alone this year and you are going to allow someone to walk in to the country and add to the incredible national debt by allowing them to get free degrees? The mind boggles.

Every western country taxes companies and "redistributes" wealth in the form of welfare. Are you saying they're all extremist??

The "Obamaphone" programme has been in place since Reagan's time. Guess what happens where recessions of historic proportions occur? Huge amounts of people lose their jobs and are forced to rely on government support. THAT is why food stamps, subsidized phones and all the rest of those programmes swelled. The economy was shedding 750,000 jobs a month when Obama took over. Would you prefer to see all those poor people just cut loose to fend for themselves? You were complaining about homelessness earlier. You're not very consistent.

And sure, programmes like free education for illegals may have legitimate arguments against. But that does not put the Dems ANYWHERE near the GOP when it comes to embracing the extremist insanity of their fringe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 06:13:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 05:58:42 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 05:17:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 05:04:05 PM
Stew, the question was clearly referring to the "controversy". Given that the All Lives Matter retort is transparently an attempt to delegitimize the Black Lives Matter cause,  the candidates answered correctly.

That unsavoury elements may have got involved in the movement or latched onto it's coattails is a separate issue.

I don't think the Dems are right on everything.  I just think they're a fairly nornal, centrist party, with all the usual bullshit and scandal you get with political parties. The GOP, on the other hand, has wandered off into John Birch, know-nothing, nativist, reactionary lunacy.

What part of taking profits from companies and redistribution of wealth is a moderate thing to do?

These people want to give illegal aliens free education when the national debt is 18.5 trillion dollars.

Free cellphones for all, free this, free that, there is no such thing as free anything anymore, someone is paying the price the last thing this shower should be doing is having the country dispense free college degrees to those that have no right to be there in the first place! I paid $126,000 for me and my two girls to get our degree's, I have paid over $40,000 in taxes alone this year and you are going to allow someone to walk in to the country and add to the incredible national debt by allowing them to get free degrees? The mind boggles.

Every western country taxes companies and "redistributes" wealth in the form of welfare. Are you saying they're all extremist??

The "Obamaphone" programme has been in place since Reagan's time. Guess what happens where recessions of historic proportions occur? Huge amounts of people lose their jobs and are forced to rely on government support. THAT is why food stamps, subsidized phones and all the rest of those programmes swelled. The economy was shedding 750,000 jobs a month when Obama took over. Would you prefer to see all those poor people just cut loose to fend for themselves? You were complaining about homelessness earlier. You're not very consistent.

And sure, programmes like free education for illegals may have legitimate arguments against. But that does not put the Dems ANYWHERE near the GOP when it comes to embracing the extremist insanity of their fringe.

I am consistent and I have no problem helping people when they need it, the problem is the people who choose to make it a lifestyle, you know, the career layabouts, as long as people are looking for work, applying for jobs and doing their best then I say support them, this is America, it does not take you 2-3 years to get a job.

If you do not think spending billions of dollars per year on educating people who should not be in the country in the first place, and given the fact the your beloved leader has doubled the size of the national debt, you are the one that is insane.

Saunders is a communist, simple as that, Clinton is whatever you want to be and you are deluded if you dont see how far left of center the dems have gone, two sides of the same shitty coin as they say in the wee six.

Again I think this is the weakest set of candidates I have ever seen, especially on the democrat side, if you can honestly say you would support Clinton you have no soul nor moral compass, she is poison.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 06:27:58 PM
Once again Stew, what should Obama have done in the circumstances?

You seem very angry about the national debt, so presumably you have answers?

And I did not endorse free education for illegals.  I acknowledged there are legitimate arguments against it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 06:39:37 PM
Again I think this is the weakest set of candidates I have ever seen, especially on the democrat side, if you can honestly say you would support Clinton you have no soul nor moral compass, she is poison.


I'd support her in a heartbeat versus the occupants of the Clown Car on the GOP side. Now, where's my moral compass gone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 06:39:37 PM
Again I think this is the weakest set of candidates I have ever seen, especially on the democrat side, if you can honestly say you would support Clinton you have no soul nor moral compass, she is poison.


I'd support her in a heartbeat versus the occupants of the Clown Car on the GOP side. Now, where's my moral compass gone?

She has been involved in shady deals for three decades, people have died and she has been suspected of being involved, she did f**k all when four people pleaded with her for help, she is under investigation by the FBI because she exposed tens of thousands of people around the world by being an arrogant arsehole and not using a government phone, she is a flip flop artist who got treated with kid gloves compared to the way the republican candidates were treated, she is bullet proof but she is unfit to Govern, she gives not too shites for veterans or the police and the families of people who went to war whilst she was Secretary of State and she is a liar of the highest order, be careful for what you wish for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 07:14:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 06:39:37 PM
Again I think this is the weakest set of candidates I have ever seen, especially on the democrat side, if you can honestly say you would support Clinton you have no soul nor moral compass, she is poison.


I'd support her in a heartbeat versus the occupants of the Clown Car on the GOP side. Now, where's my moral compass gone?

Same here. Especially when the choice could be Trump, a man who believes in nothing but his own self aggrandization, or Carson, an apparently gifted man who nevertheless has the usual array of clueless Christian right anti-intellectual views.

Ultimately,  policies are what matters. Ethics... they're all at least a little crooked! If Hillary is the nominee, it won't be for lack of trying, on the part of the GOP,  to bring her down. If she makes it, she will get my vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 07:15:08 PM
Vince Foster FFS.

We are scraping the bottom of the barrel now stew!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 07:35:44 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 06:39:37 PM
Again I think this is the weakest set of candidates I have ever seen, especially on the democrat side, if you can honestly say you would support Clinton you have no soul nor moral compass, she is poison.


I'd support her in a heartbeat versus the occupants of the Clown Car on the GOP side. Now, where's my moral compass gone?

She has been involved in shady deals for three decades, people have died and she has been suspected of being involved, she did f**k all when four people pleaded with her for help, she is under investigation by the FBI because she exposed tens of thousands of people around the world by being an arrogant arsehole and not using a government phone, she is a flip flop artist who got treated with kid gloves compared to the way the republican candidates were treated, she is bullet proof but she is unfit to Govern, she gives not too shites for veterans or the police and the families of people who went to war whilst she was Secretary of State and she is a liar of the highest order, be careful for what you wish for.

If she has been involved in shady deals for decades, where's the proof? Remember the Starr report was an off shoot of the Whitewater/Foster investigations, and they found zero proof of any impropriety - which is why Ken Starr went after Bill for sexual impropriety.

None of the ten - count them, ten - investigations into Benghazi, which were mostly Republican led - could  prove any wrongdoing, so they simply decided to keep re-hearing the evidence in an attempt to smear her (since admitted by three sources, one investigator on the Gowdy committee, one potential nominee for Speaker and one Rep congressman who said the same today). You phrasing your accusation as she did f**k all when four people pleaded with her for help is the same kind of manipulative bullshit that the Republicans have been doing for the past year. Do you honestly think that she was on a phone to the ambassador and put it down? I don't know which is scarier - the lie or the fact that it sounds like you believe the lie.

As for the emails, I believe that both she and the State Department have questions to answer - but if it was common practice for Secretaries to conduct business through personal email (as I believe was the case with previous Republican incumbents, open to correction on that though) then that is an institutional failure that should be corrected. The FBI have not charged her, because they have no proof of wrong doing.

Anyone who thinks that Clinton is a normal person is mistaken - I don't believe anyone, on either side of the aisle, can rise as far as she has without having something that sets them apart, or being changed in one way or another. She is a career politician, she has changed her position on issues, and i believe that a lot of that is calculated.

But if you believe that America has had many morally upright denizens of the Oval Office over the past 100 years or so, you don't know your history.

Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton - all had extraordinary achievements in office - and all were deeply flawed, calculating, political animals.

If you're looking for upright moral citizens, I'll give you Carter - and look what happened there. And Truman who, as well as the Marshall Plan and the Berlin airlift, also gave us Hiroshima/Nagasaki and the Korean War.

Hillary is not the Satan you make her out to be, and even if she was guilty of half the things you claim, doesn't deserve the hatred, misogyny and vitriol you're expending on her.

Whichever candidate has chill pills on their platform, you should be voting for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 07:35:44 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 06:39:37 PM
Again I think this is the weakest set of candidates I have ever seen, especially on the democrat side, if you can honestly say you would support Clinton you have no soul nor moral compass, she is poison.


I'd support her in a heartbeat versus the occupants of the Clown Car on the GOP side. Now, where's my moral compass gone?

She has been involved in shady deals for three decades, people have died and she has been suspected of being involved, she did f**k all when four people pleaded with her for help, she is under investigation by the FBI because she exposed tens of thousands of people around the world by being an arrogant arsehole and not using a government phone, she is a flip flop artist who got treated with kid gloves compared to the way the republican candidates were treated, she is bullet proof but she is unfit to Govern, she gives not too shites for veterans or the police and the families of people who went to war whilst she was Secretary of State and she is a liar of the highest order, be careful for what you wish for.

If she has been involved in shady deals for decades, where's the proof? Remember the Starr report was an off shoot of the Whitewater/Foster investigations, and they found zero proof of any impropriety - which is why Ken Starr went after Bill for sexual impropriety.

None of the ten - count them, ten - investigations into Benghazi, which were mostly Republican led - could  prove any wrongdoing, so they simply decided to keep re-hearing the evidence in an attempt to smear her (since admitted by three sources, one investigator on the Gowdy committee, one potential nominee for Speaker and one Rep congressman who said the same today). You phrasing your accusation as she did f**k all when four people pleaded with her for help is the same kind of manipulative bullshit that the Republicans have been doing for the past year. Do you honestly think that she was on a phone to the ambassador and put it down? I don't know which is scarier - the lie or the fact that it sounds like you believe the lie.

As for the emails, I believe that both she and the State Department have questions to answer - but if it was common practice for Secretaries to conduct business through personal email (as I believe was the case with previous Republican incumbents, open to correction on that though) then that is an institutional failure that should be corrected. The FBI have not charged her, because they have no proof of wrong doing.

Anyone who thinks that Clinton is a normal person is mistaken - I don't believe anyone, on either side of the aisle, can rise as far as she has without having something that sets them apart, or being changed in one way or another. She is a career politician, she has changed her position on issues, and i believe that a lot of that is calculated.

But if you believe that America has had many morally upright denizens of the Oval Office over the past 100 years or so, you don't know your history.

Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton - all had extraordinary achievements in office - and all were deeply flawed, calculating, political animals.

If you're looking for upright moral citizens, I'll give you Carter - and look what happened there. And Truman who, as well as the Marshall Plan and the Berlin airlift, also gave us Hiroshima/Nagasaki and the Korean War.

Hillary is not the Satan you make her out to be, and even if she was guilty of half the things you claim, doesn't deserve the hatred, misogyny and vitriol you're expending on her.

Whichever candidate has chill pills on their platform, you should be voting for.

Carter was a dolt, a decent man way way out of his depth, she is a Clinton, the female teflon don, as for Truman, remind of of which party he belonged to again.

She deserves and will get a lot more, she should be in jail but is untouchable and she is not trusted by people on the question of ethics.

What the feck do you think is going to happen with her as commander in chief? Veterans coming back from wars are not being taken car of, they do not care, Putin is bitch slapping Obama/ Clinton all over the shop and the Chinese smell blood in the water, this administration is toothless and with Clinton at the helm the deficit will climb to were it is impossible to dig ourselves out.

One man in eight years has added 8.5 trillion to the national debt in 7 years, TRILLION.

Please Biden run, you are brutal but Clinton will severely damage the USA as president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 08:02:35 PM
For the final time stew, what should Obama have done regarding the debt under the circumstances?  Do you know how much of it is down to stimulus?  Declining tax revenue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 08:03:44 PM
as for Truman, remind of of which party he belonged to again

5 of the 7 "flawed" Presidents I named were Democrats.

What the feck do you think is going to happen with her as commander in chief? Veterans coming back from wars are not being taken car of, they do not care, Putin is bitch slapping Obama/ Clinton all over the shop and the Chinese smell blood in the water, this administration is toothless and with Clinton at the helm the deficit will climb to were it is impossible to dig ourselves out.

Who are you angry with Stew, Obama or Clinton? Clinton's tenure at State ended in 2013 - before Putin went after the Ukraine. And whilst I think Obama's greatest failings have been in foreign policy, anyone who thinks Putin is a genius by sending his troops into Syria is forgetting that Russia had it's own Vietnam in Afghanistan during the 80s. Indeed, even Putin knows the dangerous game he is playing - he thinks he has to prop up Assad, but he is simultaneously making noises about withdrawing from Eastern Ukraine and mending fences with the EU/USA. Putin's economy is crumbling from sanctions - we'll see how his policy works out in the next few months.

As for the Chinese, the only blood they are smelling in the water is from their own economists slitting their wrists - they've devalued twice in the last year and it hasn't done them any good. The last IMF report says that all the dangers to recovery come from weakness in China. You might find they need the US more than the US needs them over the next 12 months.

Your post reads like a talking point memo for a Republican candidate and has exactly the same relationship as that does to objective reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 15, 2015, 08:26:49 PM
Lads, you're trying to calmly and rationally discuss politics with a rabid halfwit. You'll not get any sense, logic, rhyme or reason out of any of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 08:03:44 PM
as for Truman, remind of of which party he belonged to again

5 of the 7 "flawed" Presidents I named were Democrats.

What the feck do you think is going to happen with her as commander in chief? Veterans coming back from wars are not being taken car of, they do not care, Putin is bitch slapping Obama/ Clinton all over the shop and the Chinese smell blood in the water, this administration is toothless and with Clinton at the helm the deficit will climb to were it is impossible to dig ourselves out.

Who are you angry with Stew, Obama or Clinton? Clinton's tenure at State ended in 2013 - before Putin went after the Ukraine. And whilst I think Obama's greatest failings have been in foreign policy, anyone who thinks Putin is a genius by sending his troops into Syria is forgetting that Russia had it's own Vietnam in Afghanistan during the 80s. Indeed, even Putin knows the dangerous game he is playing - he thinks he has to prop up Assad, but he is simultaneously making noises about withdrawing from Eastern Ukraine and mending fences with the EU/USA. Putin's economy is crumbling from sanctions - we'll see how his policy works out in the next few months.

As for the Chinese, the only blood they are smelling in the water is from their own economists slitting their wrists - they've devalued twice in the last year and it hasn't done them any good. The last IMF report says that all the dangers to recovery come from weakness in China. You might find they need the US more than the US needs them over the next 12 months.

Your post reads like a talking point memo for a Republican candidate and has exactly the same relationship as that does to objective reality.

I am not forgetting Russia's past here, the afghans, thanks to a US Congressman and their doggedness beat the russians but the fact is he knows Obama is weak, Obama actually did well for me pertaining to the very sanctions he imposed on Russia, the price of oil is crippling him yet here we are, with Putin flexing his muscle while Obama sits meekly by. I dont want him to start a war, but I do expect him to let Putin know that Assad must go and the people that had to leave their war ravaged country must be allowed to return, the west cannot house them forever, I see mo sign of that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 08:30:00 PM
Do you want US troops in Syria stew? A major reengagement in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 08:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 15, 2015, 08:26:49 PM
Lads, you're trying to calmly and rationally discuss politics with a rabid halfwit. You'll not get any sense, logic, rhyme or reason out of any of it.

Gallsman - Even though I disagree with him you could be a bit nicer to J70. Calling him a halfwit is just mean.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 07:14:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 06:39:37 PM
Again I think this is the weakest set of candidates I have ever seen, especially on the democrat side, if you can honestly say you would support Clinton you have no soul nor moral compass, she is poison.


I'd support her in a heartbeat versus the occupants of the Clown Car on the GOP side. Now, where's my moral compass gone?

Same here. Especially when the choice could be Trump, a man who believes in nothing but his own self aggrandization, or Carson, an apparently gifted man who nevertheless has the usual array of clueless Christian right anti-intellectual views.

Ultimately,  policies are what matters. Ethics... they're all at least a little crooked! If Hillary is the nominee, it won't be for lack of trying, on the part of the GOP,  to bring her down. If she makes it, she will get my vote.

Of course she will, is it not the idea? bringing the other side down like?

I am not a yank so I cant vote, but if it was her or Trump I would abstain, she is a blight on this country as far as I am concerned, a cancerous part of the establishment, her husband was a gangster and so is she!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 08:51:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 08:30:00 PM
Do you want US troops in Syria stew? A major reengagement in Iraq and Afghanistan?

No I don't, I want Assad out, the key to Assad is Putin, sanction him until he bends or find a way  to talk sense to him via diplomatic channels, Kerry is useless, they don't respect him so he would need to be replaced.

The UN will do feck all and Obama is going to have to force Putins hand here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 08:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 15, 2015, 08:26:49 PM
Lads, you're trying to calmly and rationally discuss politics with a rabid halfwit. You'll not get any sense, logic, rhyme or reason out of any of it.

Gallsman - Even though I disagree with him you could be a bit nicer to J70. Calling him a halfwit is just mean.

;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 09:34:14 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 08:51:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 08:30:00 PM
Do you want US troops in Syria stew? A major reengagement in Iraq and Afghanistan?

No I don't, I want Assad out, the key to Assad is Putin, sanction him until he bends or find a way  to talk sense to him via diplomatic channels, Kerry is useless, they don't respect him so he would need to be replaced.

The UN will do feck all and Obama is going to have to force Putins hand here.

There are sanctions on him and they haven't made much difference. He could probably use them to his advantage at home anyway. Took a long time for them to have an effect on Iran.

Whether or not you like Kerry, he isn't going anywhere.  The GOP are already blocking hundreds of nominations in the Senate. Plus why would Obama replace a Secretary of State with 15 months left?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 09:36:56 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 07:14:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 06:39:37 PM
Again I think this is the weakest set of candidates I have ever seen, especially on the democrat side, if you can honestly say you would support Clinton you have no soul nor moral compass, she is poison.


I'd support her in a heartbeat versus the occupants of the Clown Car on the GOP side. Now, where's my moral compass gone?

Same here. Especially when the choice could be Trump, a man who believes in nothing but his own self aggrandization, or Carson, an apparently gifted man who nevertheless has the usual array of clueless Christian right anti-intellectual views.

Ultimately,  policies are what matters. Ethics... they're all at least a little crooked! If Hillary is the nominee, it won't be for lack of trying, on the part of the GOP,  to bring her down. If she makes it, she will get my vote.

Of course she will, is it not the idea? bringing the other side down like?

I am not a yank so I cant vote, but if it was her or Trump I would abstain, she is a blight on this country as far as I am concerned, a cancerous part of the establishment, her husband was a gangster and so is she!

Whatever his personal failings, Clinton got things done and oversaw a strong period for the US. Would have thought his third way/triangulation politics would have been right up your alley.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 09:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 08:02:35 PM
For the final time stew, what should Obama have done regarding the debt under the circumstances?  Do you know how much of it is down to stimulus?  Declining tax revenue?

He should have trimmed the fat, Government was far to heavy as it was, he should have stopped giving Israel Billions every year and he should have been tougher on the wealthy, that is a good start.

Look at the job Bubba did cutting the deficit, Reagan for that matter, under Bubba, there was actually a surplus if you can get your hear around that. In other words he could have learned from history.

FDR had his new deal, he invested heavily in building dams, roads, bridges, the infrastructure of the country, he also had a madman in Germany who he knew was spoiling for a war, war means jobs and  i give him a ton of credit for dragging the country out of the depression.

No one can seriously look at his record and say, you know, yes he spent 10 trillion but he took us out of recession, this is like the idea to give free degrees to illegal people, at the end of the day, in the good ole USA, somebody pays, in this case, future generations will pay OR they will default if it gets too big, and what happens then folks?

The democrats are spend happy, I look at the way the British run their general elections, the window to canvas is very small and compared to the states, they spend a minuscule amount of money on their elected officials, and that is taking in the populations into consideration.

Allowing banks off the hook and giving GM fat checks millions upon millions for ruining companies to big to fail does not fix the economy, you asked, I answered.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 09:47:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 09:36:56 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 07:14:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 06:39:37 PM
Again I think this is the weakest set of candidates I have ever seen, especially on the democrat side, if you can honestly say you would support Clinton you have no soul nor moral compass, she is poison.


I'd support her in a heartbeat versus the occupants of the Clown Car on the GOP side. Now, where's my moral compass gone?

Same here. Especially when the choice could be Trump, a man who believes in nothing but his own self aggrandization, or Carson, an apparently gifted man who nevertheless has the usual array of clueless Christian right anti-intellectual views.

Ultimately,  policies are what matters. Ethics... they're all at least a little crooked! If Hillary is the nominee, it won't be for lack of trying, on the part of the GOP,  to bring her down. If she makes it, she will get my vote.

Of course she will, is it not the idea? bringing the other side down like?

I am not a yank so I cant vote, but if it was her or Trump I would abstain, she is a blight on this country as far as I am concerned, a cancerous part of the establishment, her husband was a gangster and so is she!

Whatever his personal failings, Clinton got things done and oversaw a strong period for the US. Would have thought his third way/triangulation politics would have been right up your alley.

I am talking Hillary for the most part, Bill Clinton was a tremendous president in many ways, gifted far more than most, he repulsed me with his stance on partial birth abortion but he put manners on those loyalist f**kers in the north and almost got a lasting peace in Israel/ Palestine. He was a legend from a foreign policy perspective and I think Obama erred in not using him more as an advisor. maybe he tried but then again they are not exactly all chummy now are they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 09:57:35 PM
Whole pile of contradictions there Stew - FDR's New Deal relied on running a deficit, spending rather than reducing debt - it was classic Keynesian economics. What ultimately cleared those deficits were war and Bretton Woods. The problem with Obama's stimulus was that it was too small, that's why it didn't drag people out of poverty, and that is why your infrastructure is crumbling, because there was little spending on those kind of capital projects (blocked by Republicans by the way)

Bubba cut the deficit because he had to deal with a hostile Congress, but also the tech stock boom gave him plenty to work with - that congress ultimately overplayed its hand but there was no comparison with the economic situation in 92 and the one in 08.

Campaign cash is a different matter all together - and the Citizens' United decision was a right wing one all the way.

As for allowing banks and GM off the hook, those actions saved those pillars of capitalism, which you claimed he was trying to destroy earlier. if he was looking to do capitalism all he had to do was refuse to do TARP, burn the bondholders, let Detroit burn and the same with Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac - none of which he did.

You can't have it both ways stew - he's either a bomb throwing anarchist or the stooge of Wall Street rather than Main Street. In your philosophy he's both simultaneously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 15, 2015, 10:01:36 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 15, 2015, 09:57:35 PM
Whole pile of contradictions there Stew - FDR's New Deal relied on running a deficit, spending rather than reducing debt - it was classic Keynesian economics. What ultimately cleared those deficits were war and Bretton Woods. The problem with Obama's stimulus was that it was too small, that's why it didn't drag people out of poverty, and that is why your infrastructure is crumbling, because there was little spending on those kind of capital projects (blocked by Republicans by the way)

Bubba cut the deficit because he had to deal with a hostile Congress, but also the tech stock boom gave him plenty to work with - that congress ultimately overplayed its hand but there was no comparison with the economic situation in 92 and the one in 08.

Campaign cash is a different matter all together - and the Citizens' United decision was a right wing one all the way.

As for allowing banks and GM off the hook, those actions saved those pillars of capitalism, which you claimed he was trying to destroy earlier. if he was looking to do capitalism all he had to do was refuse to do TARP, burn the bondholders, let Detroit burn and the same with Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac - none of which he did.

You can't have it both ways stew - he's either a bomb throwing anarchist or the stooge of Wall Street rather than Main Street. In your philosophy he's both simultaneously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2015, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 09:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 08:02:35 PM
For the final time stew, what should Obama have done regarding the debt under the circumstances?  Do you know how much of it is down to stimulus?  Declining tax revenue?

He should have trimmed the fat, Government was far to heavy as it was, he should have stopped giving Israel Billions every year and he should have been tougher on the wealthy, that is a good start.

Look at the job Bubba did cutting the deficit, Reagan for that matter, under Bubba, there was actually a surplus if you can get your hear around that. In other words he could have learned from history.

FDR had his new deal, he invested heavily in building dams, roads, bridges, the infrastructure of the country, he also had a madman in Germany who he knew was spoiling for a war, war means jobs and  i give him a ton of credit for dragging the country out of the depression.

No one can seriously look at his record and say, you know, yes he spent 10 trillion but he took us out of recession, this is like the idea to give free degrees to illegal people, at the end of the day, in the good ole USA, somebody pays, in this case, future generations will pay OR they will default if it gets too big, and what happens then folks?

The democrats are spend happy, I look at the way the British run their general elections, the window to canvas is very small and compared to the states, they spend a minuscule amount of money on their elected officials, and that is taking in the populations into consideration.

Allowing banks off the hook and giving GM fat checks millions upon millions for ruining companies to big to fail does not fix the economy, you asked, I answered.

Seriously? ? Clinton had a tech bubble and roaring economy. It's easy to balance the budget and run a surplus when that happens.  Obama inherited the worst economic catastrophe in 80 years, with collapse companies,  ballooning unemployment and huge drops in government revenue.  Throw on top of that the resulting ballooning demand for social welfare. You cannot credibly compare the two.

Not sure what the British hustings has to do with anything - the US election cycle is nothing to do with Obama.

Obama has been campaigning for years for infrastructure investment.  Still is, given the rock bottom interest rates. You can blame the GOP for that.

Israel.... good luck with that! Netanyahu hates Obama and went behind his back to Congress and the GOP. You think the religious right will countenance dropping aid to Israel?

And GM repaid their bailout with interest.

Just what government departments would you have him cut, and what would that save?

How about actual major parts of government expenditure, like the military,  social security and medicare?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 16, 2015, 12:13:56 AM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 05:17:03 PM

What part of taking profits from companies and redistribution of wealth is a moderate thing to do?

These people want to give illegal aliens free education when the national debt is 18.5 trillion dollars.

Free cellphones for all, free this, free that, there is no such thing as free anything anymore, someone is paying the price the last thing this shower should be doing is having the country dispense free college degrees to those that have no right to be there in the first place! I paid $126,000 for me and my two girls to get our degree's, I have paid over $40,000 in taxes alone this year and you are going to allow someone to walk in to the country and add to the incredible national debt by allowing them to get free degrees? The mind boggles.

Stew,
you want to boggle the mind- you are getting absolutely screwed on taxes, and you know what its not (just) the democrats doing it. You think free cellphones are the problem? Wonder why the colleges cost $126,00? Wonder why the infrastructure of the "world's richest nation" is crumbling?

(http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/files/2014/08/13/chart.jpg)

You're getting screwed because the lobbyists have the politicians (who are all more than 60% untrustworthy) are screwing the people of the country to protect their capital. Want to know why a small number of families (158 of the 120million families in the US) choose the president? Its because the entire tax system is designed to protect and grow their capital at the expense of the rest, especially the poorest families, because they have no-one lobbying for them. I know you may think that your usual socialist targets are, its really in name only. The best way to improve the lot of the countries economy is to look after the poor. A company is on target to make $8Billion dollars in a year, legally pays no tax, despite the fact that the healthcare system is set up to make the drug companies enormous profits- zero tax paid...

I agree you are getting screwed on taxes, but point the blame at the right target, it's not the poor people who have no right to be at college, educate the poor and you'll find they don't stay poor for long...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 16, 2015, 12:25:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 09:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 08:02:35 PM
For the final time stew, what should Obama have done regarding the debt under the circumstances?  Do you know how much of it is down to stimulus?  Declining tax revenue?

He should have trimmed the fat, Government was far to heavy as it was, he should have stopped giving Israel Billions every year and he should have been tougher on the wealthy, that is a good start.

Look at the job Bubba did cutting the deficit, Reagan for that matter, under Bubba, there was actually a surplus if you can get your hear around that. In other words he could have learned from history.

FDR had his new deal, he invested heavily in building dams, roads, bridges, the infrastructure of the country, he also had a madman in Germany who he knew was spoiling for a war, war means jobs and  i give him a ton of credit for dragging the country out of the depression.

No one can seriously look at his record and say, you know, yes he spent 10 trillion but he took us out of recession, this is like the idea to give free degrees to illegal people, at the end of the day, in the good ole USA, somebody pays, in this case, future generations will pay OR they will default if it gets too big, and what happens then folks?

The democrats are spend happy, I look at the way the British run their general elections, the window to canvas is very small and compared to the states, they spend a minuscule amount of money on their elected officials, and that is taking in the populations into consideration.

Allowing banks off the hook and giving GM fat checks millions upon millions for ruining companies to big to fail does not fix the economy, you asked, I answered.

Seriously? ? Clinton had a tech bubble and roaring economy. It's easy to balance the budget and run a surplus when that happens.  Obama inherited the worst economic catastrophe in 80 years, with collapse companies,  ballooning unemployment and huge drops in government revenue.  Throw on top of that the resulting ballooning demand for social welfare. You cannot credibly compare the two.

Not sure what the British hustings has to do with anything - the US election cycle is nothing to do with Obama.

Obama has been campaigning for years for infrastructure investment.  Still is, given the rock bottom interest rates. You can blame the GOP for that.

Israel.... good luck with that! Netanyahu hates Obama and went behind his back to Congress and the GOP. You think the religious right will countenance dropping aid to Israel?

And GM repaid their bailout with interest.

Just what government departments would you have him cut, and what would that save?

How about actual major parts of government expenditure, like the military,  social security and medicare?

let me get this straight, you would cut social security and medicare, in essence hurting the working class retirees who paid into it all their lives, great, screw Sweden, we are now Greece.

I would tax the rich, tax companies that empty out of the USA and set up elsewhere, I would trim any and all Government spending that was not deemed necessary, I mean some of the grants out there are scandalous and have been for decades.

I would take a look at the military budget and get rid of as much waste as possible, I would target contractors that work and get rid of the firms that have been ripping off the Government.

I know FDR spent his way out of trouble, but he was the right man, in the right place at the right time, as was reagan and clinton, good men at the right time I used to think about this country, nae longer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 16, 2015, 12:31:22 AM
Uncle Sam's infrastructure is an archaic public-money allergic zone (apparently), and we think that the 40 mph (average) commute from Arklow to Dublin (for example) is a nonsense:

David Mc Williams in the US (https://woodfordfunds.com/insight/a-letter-from-america/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2015, 01:56:59 AM
Quote from: stew on October 16, 2015, 12:25:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: stew on October 15, 2015, 09:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2015, 08:02:35 PM
For the final time stew, what should Obama have done regarding the debt under the circumstances?  Do you know how much of it is down to stimulus?  Declining tax revenue?

He should have trimmed the fat, Government was far to heavy as it was, he should have stopped giving Israel Billions every year and he should have been tougher on the wealthy, that is a good start.

Look at the job Bubba did cutting the deficit, Reagan for that matter, under Bubba, there was actually a surplus if you can get your hear around that. In other words he could have learned from history.

FDR had his new deal, he invested heavily in building dams, roads, bridges, the infrastructure of the country, he also had a madman in Germany who he knew was spoiling for a war, war means jobs and  i give him a ton of credit for dragging the country out of the depression.

No one can seriously look at his record and say, you know, yes he spent 10 trillion but he took us out of recession, this is like the idea to give free degrees to illegal people, at the end of the day, in the good ole USA, somebody pays, in this case, future generations will pay OR they will default if it gets too big, and what happens then folks?

The democrats are spend happy, I look at the way the British run their general elections, the window to canvas is very small and compared to the states, they spend a minuscule amount of money on their elected officials, and that is taking in the populations into consideration.

Allowing banks off the hook and giving GM fat checks millions upon millions for ruining companies to big to fail does not fix the economy, you asked, I answered.

Seriously? ? Clinton had a tech bubble and roaring economy. It's easy to balance the budget and run a surplus when that happens.  Obama inherited the worst economic catastrophe in 80 years, with collapse companies,  ballooning unemployment and huge drops in government revenue.  Throw on top of that the resulting ballooning demand for social welfare. You cannot credibly compare the two.

Not sure what the British hustings has to do with anything - the US election cycle is nothing to do with Obama.

Obama has been campaigning for years for infrastructure investment.  Still is, given the rock bottom interest rates. You can blame the GOP for that.

Israel.... good luck with that! Netanyahu hates Obama and went behind his back to Congress and the GOP. You think the religious right will countenance dropping aid to Israel?

And GM repaid their bailout with interest.

Just what government departments would you have him cut, and what would that save?

How about actual major parts of government expenditure, like the military,  social security and medicare?

let me get this straight, you would cut social security and medicare, in essence hurting the working class retirees who paid into it all their lives, great, screw Sweden, we are now Greece.

I would tax the rich, tax companies that empty out of the USA and set up elsewhere, I would trim any and all Government spending that was not deemed necessary, I mean some of the grants out there are scandalous and have been for decades.

I would take a look at the military budget and get rid of as much waste as possible, I would target contractors that work and get rid of the firms that have been ripping off the Government.

I know FDR spent his way out of trouble, but he was the right man, in the right place at the right time, as was reagan and clinton, good men at the right time I used to think about this country, nae longer.

Where did I say I would cut SS or medicare?

My point is that they account for 40% of federal spending, while the military accounts for another 20%. Medicaid, CHIP and Obamacare subsidies account for 8%. Other entitlement spending accounts for 11% and has been declining, in both proportion and real terms as the economy has improved. Even if you gutted all entitlement spending that helps the poor, as the GOP wants to do, the budget would still be in deficit. Science and medical research account for only 2%.

So what spending is unnecessary? Who decides what research grants are "scandalous"? I remember McCain making a huge deal in 2008 over some grant on grizzly bear research. Well, where do these people think the knowledge to manage wildlife and ecosystems and to improve medicine is going to come from? The competition for these grants is tremendous and the idea that they're dishing out money willy-nilly on fanciful fluff is ludicrous.

And just how much power do you think the president has? You think he is solely responsible for all the bad government contractors and the waste? Congress controls the purse strings. Just today there is a story in the Daily Beast about some Tea Party congressmen who is a leader is the so-called Freedom Caucus and a highly vocal proponent of fiscal responsibility who ensured that some factory building tanks which the army did not want got to keep their contract just because it was in his district.

Good luck getting those corporations taxed BTW. Ain't going to happen while the GOP is in control of congress.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 16, 2015, 03:14:11 PM
Good luck getting those corporations taxed BTW. Ain't going to happen while the GOP is in control of congress.

THEY WERE NOT ALWAYS IN CONTROL OF CONGRESS UNDER THIS PRESIDENT, COMPRENDE? House, Senate, White House ALL Democrat, they got nothing!

I cannot be arsed anymore, I have lived here for 20 years, I came over a democrat and after watching their act I bother became more conservative in my thinking, values etc were a better match, I am not changing my mind but at least I can say some good things about the center left, very few of the vast majority can say anything decent about any republican.

I will leave you all with this as this is my last post on here, like facebook I am shutting the door on politics and Religion, that said, the GOP candidates, some of them are deeply Religious and a lot of you are offended by that, you should not be because it is their right under the constitution.

J70 you seem like a good skin, I have enjoyed your commentary, see you on other pages, I cant be arsed anymore, there is no point to it.

Up Armagh!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 16, 2015, 03:26:56 PM
I'm not offended by the GOP candidates religion, I'm offended by their stupidity. Low blow to dismiss all the rational arguments put forward opposing the GOP position as mere anti-religious bigotry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 16, 2015, 03:46:16 PM
Quote from: stew on October 16, 2015, 03:14:11 PM
Good luck getting those corporations taxed BTW. Ain't going to happen while the GOP is in control of congress.

THEY WERE NOT ALWAYS IN CONTROL OF CONGRESS UNDER THIS PRESIDENT, COMPRENDE? House, Senate, White House ALL Democrat, they got nothing!

I cannot be arsed anymore, I have lived here for 20 years, I came over a democrat and after watching their act I bother became more conservative in my thinking, values etc were a better match, I am not changing my mind but at least I can say some good things about the center left, very few of the vast majority can say anything decent about any republican.

I will leave you all with this as this is my last post on here, like facebook I am shutting the door on politics and Religion, that said, the GOP candidates, some of them are deeply Religious and a lot of you are offended by that, you should not be because it is their right under the constitution.

J70 you seem like a good skin, I have enjoyed your commentary, see you on other pages, I cant be arsed anymore, there is no point to it.

Up Armagh!

I don't mind people being deeply religious, as long as they don't insist on imposing their beliefs on everyone else. Like for example ISIS do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 16, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: stew on October 16, 2015, 03:14:11 PM
THEY WERE NOT ALWAYS IN CONTROL OF CONGRESS UNDER THIS PRESIDENT, COMPRENDE? House, Senate, White House ALL Democrat, they got nothing!

You've clearly forgotten the GOP use of the filibuster. Comment is free, but facts are sacred.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2015, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: stew on October 16, 2015, 03:14:11 PM
Good luck getting those corporations taxed BTW. Ain't going to happen while the GOP is in control of congress.

THEY WERE NOT ALWAYS IN CONTROL OF CONGRESS UNDER THIS PRESIDENT, COMPRENDE? House, Senate, White House ALL Democrat, they got nothing!

I cannot be arsed anymore, I have lived here for 20 years, I came over a democrat and after watching their act I bother became more conservative in my thinking, values etc were a better match, I am not changing my mind but at least I can say some good things about the center left, very few of the vast majority can say anything decent about any republican.

I will leave you all with this as this is my last post on here, like facebook I am shutting the door on politics and Religion, that said, the GOP candidates, some of them are deeply Religious and a lot of you are offended by that, you should not be because it is their right under the constitution.

J70 you seem like a good skin, I have enjoyed your commentary, see you on other pages, I cant be arsed anymore, there is no point to it.

Up Armagh!

True, there is probably not much point to it in that we will not change too many minds, but it's good crack to discuss this stuff. Same as with the likes of Iceman on religious stuff. A bit of debate is good for the brain cells, and sure we will always learn at least a wee bit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 16, 2015, 08:46:30 PM
Interesting piece in the New York Times today on the tax situation in the US

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/17/business/putting-numbers-to-a-tax-increase-for-the-rich.html


QuoteWhen it comes to paying taxes, most Americans think the wealthy do not pay their fair share.


There is a sharp divide, however, between Republicans and Democrats when it comes to taxing the rich, who provide most of the cash for political campaigns.

All the Republican tax proposals, in fact, cut taxes for the wealthiest Americans. Democrats, on the other hand, are prepared to raise taxes at the top, though they have not been very specific about how they would do so.

"Right now, the wealthy pay too little," Hillary Rodham Clinton said at this week's Democratic debate in Las Vegas, "and the middle class pays too much."

But what could a tax-the-rich plan actually achieve? As it turns out, quite a lot, experts say. Given the gains that have flowed to those at the tip of the income pyramid in recent decades, several economists have been making the case that the government could raise large amounts of revenue exclusively from this small group, while still allowing them to take home a majority of their income.

It is "absurd" to argue that most wealth at the top is already highly taxed or that there isn't much more revenue to be had by raising taxes on the 1 percent, says the economist Joseph E. Stiglitz, winner of the Nobel in economic science, who has written extensively about inequality. "The only upside of the concentration of the wealth at the top is that they have more money to pay in taxes," he said.

The top 1 percent on average already pay roughly a third of their incomes to the federal government, according to a Treasury Department analysis that takes into account the entire menu of taxes — including income tax, payroll taxes that fund Medicare and Social Security, estate and gift taxes, excise and custom duties as well as investors' share of corporate taxes. The tax bite on the top 0.1 percent is a bit higher. Most of those taxpayers insist they are already paying more than enough.

By comparison, the band of taxpayers right below them, in the 95th to 99th percentile, pay on average about $1 out of every $4. Those in the bottom half pay less than $1 out of every $10.

Taking all federal taxes into account, the richest taxpayers contribute, on average, about a third of their income to the government. But they still enjoy after-tax incomes far higher than those of other Americans.


Average
Federal tax
payment
Average
Federal
tax rate
Number of
taxpayers
Average
income
Average after-
tax income
Income
quintiles:
Lowest fifth
47,416,000
$12,939
3.6
%
$461
$12,478
Second fifth
37,240,000
32,747
7.8
2,556
30,191
Middle fifth
33,429,000
59,484
13.1
7,797
51,687
Fourth fifth
28,192,000
103,603
17.0
17,641
85,961
Top fifth
23,717,000
321,278
25.7
82,593
238,685
All
171,259,000
83,723
19.8
16,582
67,140
Top fifth breakdown:
80% to 90%
12,247,000
$166,149
20.0
%
$33,144
$133,005
90% to 95%
5,921,000
239,064
21.8
52,005
187,059
95% to 99%
4,422,000
405,492
25.2
102,219
303,273
Top 1%
1,128,000
2,107,531
33.4
703,303
1,404,229
Top 0.1%
115,000
9,446,793
34.9
3,297,476
6,149,316
Source: Tax Policy Center
By The New York Times
Sidestepping for the moment the messy question of just which taxes would be increased, how much more revenue could be generated by asking the rich to pay a larger share of their income in taxes?

To get the most accurate picture possible, throw in all the scraps of income, from the most obvious (like wages, interest and dividends) to the least (like employer contributions to health plans, overseas earnings and growth in retirement accounts). According to that measure — used by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution — the top 1 percent includes about 1.13 million households earning an average income of $2.1 million.

Raising their total tax burden to, say, 40 percent would generate about $157 billion in revenue the first year. Increasing it to 45 percent brings in a whopping $276 billion. Even taking account of state and local taxes, the average household in this group would still take home at least $1 million a year.


If the tax increase were limited to just the 115,000 households in the top 0.1 percent, with an average income of $9.4 million, a 40 percent tax rate would produce $55 billion in extra revenue in its first year.

That would more than cover, for example, the estimated $47 billion cost of eliminating undergraduate tuition at all the country's four-year public colleges and universities, as Senator Bernie Sanders has proposed, or Mrs. Clinton's cheaper plan for a debt-free college degree, with money left over to help fund universal prekindergarten.

A tax rate of 45 percent on this select group raises $109 billion, more than enough to pay for the first year of a new $2,500 child tax credit introduced by Senator Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida.

Move a rung down the ladder and expand the contribution of those in the 95th to 99th percentile — who earn on average $405,000. Raising their total tax rate to 30 percent from a quarter of their total yearly income would generate an additional $86 billion. That's enough to cover the cost over eight years of repealing the so-called Cadillac Tax on high-cost health plans, which Senator Sanders and Mrs. Clinton have endorsed.

A 35 percent share produces $176 billion — roughly the amount that the Federal Highway Administration has estimated is needed each year to improve conditions significantly on major urban highways.

Alternatively, those tax increases could be used to help reduce government borrowing: Some combination of those raises could go a long way toward wiping out this year's estimated federal deficit of $426 billion.

"Most economists today would agree that raising taxes modestly would bring in more revenue" without doing any serious damage to the economy, said Roberton Williams, a fellow at the Tax Policy Center. The big question is how much is too much, because at some point higher tax rates would discourage extra investment and work.

All the Republican candidates share the party's traditional opposition to raising taxes on the wealthy, arguing that it would ruin the economy by sopping up money that would otherwise be used to create jobs. Lowering taxes, they say, will unleash a torrent of economic activity that will in the long run spur growth and revenue.

But most mainstream economists, including some on the conservative side of the divide, concede that even with optimistic projections about growth and spending cuts, the Republican plans would leave a whopping budget gap, requiring more borrowing, not less. Revamping the tax code along these lines would also decrease the share paid by those at the top.

The argument for raising tax rates on the rich tends to focus on the vast gains that this group has enjoyed in recent years compared with everyone else. The top 0.1 percent of American families – each with net assets greater than $20 million — own more than 20 percent of the all the household wealth in the country. In the 1970s, that same sliver of the population controlled 7 percent.

That shift is behind Senator Sanders's repeated vow to compel Wall Streeters and others in the Rolex-and-Maserati set to pay more than they do now.

"Let me tell you, Donald Trump and his billionaire friends under my policies are going to pay a hell of a lot more in taxes today — taxes in the future than they're paying today," he declared in Las Vegas.

Middle-income families make substantially less money than they did 15 years ago, once inflation is taken into account. The economist Thomas Piketty blames, among other things, "the spectacular lowering of top income tax rates" for the sharp rise in inequality.

The lower rate — generally a maximum of 23.8 percent — on capital gains, or profits from investments, is particularly problematic, Mr. Piketty argues. Estimates show that nearly 70 percent of capital gains benefits go to the top 1 percent. A recent study by Adam Looney at Brookings and Kevin B. Moore at the Federal Reserve found that "the reduction in the long-term capital gains rate is the primary reason" that the income tax system had become less effective in reducing wealth inequality.

Aided by a phalanx of lawyers and accountants, the rich have become adept at figuring out ways to shift earnings that would normally be taxed at the top 39.6 percent rate on ordinary income into capital gains, said the economist Gabriel Zucman of the University of California, Berkeley, who is researching the link between widening inequality and tactics — legal and illegal — used by the wealthy to sidestep taxes.

Shifting earnings from one tax category to another is part of the reason that even the top 0.1 percent pay on average no more than a quarter of their income in federal individual income taxes — despite that top tax bracket of 39.6 percent, according to a Treasury Department analysis.

"Why give a blank check to all of these guys?" Mr. Stiglitz, the liberal economist, asked. He pointed out that current tax law makes no distinction between, say, investing abroad, speculating in land or building a new factory. A better approach, he said, is to say: "We'll give you generous deductions if you invest in America."

Eliminating the preferential rates on capital and dividends would generate $1.34 trillion over the next 10 years, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

Other breaks that critics say subsidize wealth inequality include one that allows people to avoid capital gains taxes on inherited assets. Getting rid of that adjustment would generate $644 billion over a 10-year period, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Ending the deferral on corporate profits kept overseas — a boon for the wealthy that Robert S. McIntyre, the director of Citizens for Tax Justice, calls "the biggest corporate loophole" — would generate $900 billion over 10 years. (Mr. Trump also supports shutting down that deferral.)

Although an overwhelming proportion of Americans complain that many wealthy people don't pay their fair share in taxes, Democratic voters are more likely to be upset about it than Republicans. According to the Pew Research Center survey, nearly three out of every four Democrats said it bothers them "a lot" compared to 45 percent of Republicans.

Yet the problem that any president — Democrat or Republican — is going to face in altering the tax code is getting Congress to agree. Researchers have repeatedly found that a top priority of the wealthy is reducing their tax burden and that they largely prefer, unlike a majority of the general public, to cut spending rather than raise taxes.

Senator Ron Wyden, the top Democrat on the Finance Committee, said maneuvering any tax overhaul "through that gauntlet of special interests is a herculean task."

Correction: October 16, 2015
An earlier version of this article misstated the estimated amount of federal tax revenue that would be generated by ending the deferral on corporate profits kept overseas. It is $900 billion, not $900 million.

It also misstated the amount of additional tax revenue that would be produced by raising the total tax burden of the top 1 percent of taxpayers to 45 percent. It would bring in $276 billion, not $267 billion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 23, 2015, 07:49:00 PM
Interesting figures here

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/10390552_834468660006885_8030334358352236298_n.jpg?oh=49fc4468be4ce6e4cba665b2668105c2&oe=56853263)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2015, 12:44:24 AM
Quote from: Declan on October 23, 2015, 07:49:00 PM
Interesting figures here

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/10390552_834468660006885_8030334358352236298_n.jpg?oh=49fc4468be4ce6e4cba665b2668105c2&oe=56853263)

(http://www.badkitty.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/machine-gun-facebook-like1-5466515002508.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 02:10:40 PM
America is a joke alright. They decide on an action then they tear themselves apart fighting about who did what and spend 14 million dollars spent investigating themselves  ;D

superpower my arse !
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 30, 2015, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 02:10:40 PM
America is a joke alright. They decide on an action then they tear themselves apart fighting about who did what and spend 14 million dollars spent investigating themselves  ;D

superpower my arse !

Really, they are questioning the ethics of a lying, conniving bastard who is responsible for the the deaths of four of their citizens, this person is running for the Presidency, kind of a big deal and if you think they are not a superpower you are an idiot!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 30, 2015, 03:38:56 PM
Anyone watching the republican debates , the moderator in the last one was some smug ass more interested in his opinions than the candidates , how do the republicans agree to cnn CNBC moderating the debates?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 04:22:34 PM
Quote from: stew on October 30, 2015, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 02:10:40 PM
America is a joke alright. They decide on an action then they tear themselves apart fighting about who did what and spend 14 million dollars spent investigating themselves  ;D

superpower my arse !

Really, they are questioning the ethics of a lying, conniving b**tard who is responsible for the the deaths of four of their citizens, this person is running for the Presidency, kind of a big deal and if you think they are not a superpower you are an idiot!

when was the last time the US was able to actually influence anything that has happened in the world ? I mean when have they produced an actual outcome that was a net positive for the US or for the region they are meddling in ?

They may have economic power but that will fade as the Chinese/Russian axis rises . They may have military capability but they are too hamstrung by their own internal bickering and moral hand wringing to use it in any way that is effective.

America is weak. To call them a superpower is laughable. Power that is not used is useless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 30, 2015, 04:37:56 PM
Quote from: stew on October 30, 2015, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 02:10:40 PM
America is a joke alright. They decide on an action then they tear themselves apart fighting about who did what and spend 14 million dollars spent investigating themselves  ;D

superpower my arse !

Really, they are questioning the ethics of a lying, conniving b**tard who is responsible for the the deaths of four of their citizens, this person is running for the Presidency, kind of a big deal and if you think they are not a superpower you are an idiot!

They are questioning the ethics of a Secretary of State, who, despite 9 separate investigations of a mostly partisan nature, has been found to be not responsible for the deaths in Benghazi. Shouting it doesn't make it anymore true. It's ironic that in their eagerness to crucify Clinton, the Republicans have basically anointed her. The 11 hour interrogation was a farce, and she dealt with it with an amount of grace and class I had thought beyond her. She's gone up in my estimation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 04:41:07 PM
Quotewhen was the last time the US was able to actually influence anything that has happened in the world ? I mean when have they produced an actual outcome that was a net positive for the US or for the region they are meddling in ?

This is an interesting question because there is no doubt they have had a litany of foreign policy failures. WW2 was obviously a success but it is hard to think of another unqualified success since. They have been criticised for being too late into the Balkans, too quick into Iraq, too soft on Putin, of torture (Guantanamo) and of being too slow to deal with ISIS. I am a frequent critic of their foreign policy, but to be fair to them, it is complicated.

There are people who argue that the Spring tide came about as an indirect consequence of Quantitive Easing and the fact that instead of generating inflation in the US, as desired, it inflated food prices in poor countries, tipping some of them over the edge into revolution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8492078/How-the-Fed-triggered-the-Arab-Spring-uprisings-in-two-easy-graphs.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8492078/How-the-Fed-triggered-the-Arab-Spring-uprisings-in-two-easy-graphs.html)

While this was almost certainly accidental, it shows how influential the US economy is. To say it isn't a super-power seems way off.

I am also convinced that the Obama Administration is now involved in an economic war with Russia in particular and also maybe China. At the moment it looks very clever to my simple mind, but there are always unforeseen consequences and I might be judging it differently when I have the benefit of hindsight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on October 30, 2015, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 30, 2015, 04:37:56 PM
They are questioning the ethics of a Secretary of State, who, despite 9 separate investigations of a mostly partisan nature, has been found to be not responsible for the deaths in Benghazi. Shouting it doesn't make it anymore true. It's ironic that in their eagerness to crucify Clinton, the Republicans have basically anointed her. The 11 hour interrogation was a farce, and she dealt with it with an amount of grace and class I had thought beyond her. She's gone up in my estimation.

It's worth reading Matt Taibbi's take on it (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/trey-gowdy-just-elected-hillary-clinton-president-20151023), which comes pretty close to yours. My favourite bit:

Quote[Trey] Gowdy went to places like this over and over again Thursday. At one point, he was giving Hillary a hard time for responding too quickly to an email from Huma Abedin pointing out that the Libyan people "needed medicine, gasoline, diesel and milk."

"Do you know how long it took you to answer that email?" Gowdy ranted.

"Well, I responded very quickly," Hillary replied.

"Yeah, four minutes," Gowdy chirped. "My question, and I think it's a fair one, is the Libyan people had their needs responded to in four minutes. And there's no record of our security folks ever making it to your inbox."

The look on Gowdy's face at this moment was priceless. He was proud, like a 3-year-old who went potty all by himself. But what was he even talking about? That Hillary Clinton cares more about the lives of Libyan strangers than she does her own employees? Was that seriously the idea?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 05:21:55 PM
American Foreign policy is complicated because they make it complicated. They are trying to please everybody but end up making an enemy of everybody. It is stupid beyond belief at this stage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 30, 2015, 05:37:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 30, 2015, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 30, 2015, 04:37:56 PM
They are questioning the ethics of a Secretary of State, who, despite 9 separate investigations of a mostly partisan nature, has been found to be not responsible for the deaths in Benghazi. Shouting it doesn't make it anymore true. It's ironic that in their eagerness to crucify Clinton, the Republicans have basically anointed her. The 11 hour interrogation was a farce, and she dealt with it with an amount of grace and class I had thought beyond her. She's gone up in my estimation.

It's worth reading Matt Taibbi's take on it (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/trey-gowdy-just-elected-hillary-clinton-president-20151023), which comes pretty close to yours. My favourite bit:

Quote[Trey] Gowdy went to places like this over and over again Thursday. At one point, he was giving Hillary a hard time for responding too quickly to an email from Huma Abedin pointing out that the Libyan people "needed medicine, gasoline, diesel and milk."

"Do you know how long it took you to answer that email?" Gowdy ranted.

"Well, I responded very quickly," Hillary replied.

"Yeah, four minutes," Gowdy chirped. "My question, and I think it's a fair one, is the Libyan people had their needs responded to in four minutes. And there's no record of our security folks ever making it to your inbox."

The look on Gowdy's face at this moment was priceless. He was proud, like a 3-year-old who went potty all by himself. But what was he even talking about? That Hillary Clinton cares more about the lives of Libyan strangers than she does her own employees? Was that seriously the idea?

Yeah, I read that during the week deiseach - Taibbi is the guvnor of American commentators as far as I'm concerned. But he is right, this was a nothing scandal right from the start - the basic premise was that the Admin mischaracterised the attack in the first few hours after it. The Admin said the intelligence changed and when it did, they characterised the attack as terrorism correctly. That should have been the end of it, apart from the standard investigation into procedures which Clinton herself initiated. But the Republicans couldn't resist it.

The funniest part of the hearings was when yer man Jordan kept on saying that she had blamed the attack on the video, and she kept on coming back to the transcript of her statement which said clearly, whilst some may try and excuse the attack by blaming the video, there was no excuse for it.

Which clearly are two different things and Jordan simply would not accept that and ended up looking like a thick. the scary thing was - he actually came across as if he believed what he was saying. These people do not occupy a fact based universe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 10:08:29 PM
well, hang on a minute. There are some genuine questions that need to be answered about Benghazi. You cant simply dismiss them because you take a particular side in the (fatuous) American debate. It is ridiculous that a so called world power can allow their embassy to be overrun by a rag-tag bunch of allahu akbars. Surely something was wrong ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 31, 2015, 01:05:07 AM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 10:08:29 PM
well, hang on a minute. There are some genuine questions that need to be answered about Benghazi. You cant simply dismiss them because you take a particular side in the (fatuous) American debate. It is ridiculous that a so called world power can allow their embassy to be overrun by a rag-tag bunch of allahu akbars. Surely something was wrong ?


There was, clinton got hundreds of requests for more security and denied them all, the top man begged her in some of the last ones and she claimed never to have gotten the emails.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 01:21:17 AM
Quote from: stew on October 31, 2015, 01:05:07 AM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 10:08:29 PM
well, hang on a minute. There are some genuine questions that need to be answered about Benghazi. You cant simply dismiss them because you take a particular side in the (fatuous) American debate. It is ridiculous that a so called world power can allow their embassy to be overrun by a rag-tag bunch of allahu akbars. Surely something was wrong ?


There was, clinton got hundreds of requests for more security and denied them all, the top man begged her in some of the last ones and she claimed never to have gotten the emails.

I cant figure you out. One minute you are agreeing with Muppet then you surprise me !

The real weakness is the fact that you are having these "inquiries". Cant you see that this constant self questioning will lead to your ruin. Seriously, a bunch of allalu akhbars overran your embassy, murdered your envoy and you are looking within to find a scapegoat.

Jesus wept, you lads make it too easy for vlad to step in  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:03:08 AM
One thing you should keep in mind stew is that Russia and the American right have many values in common. Both have a visceral hatred of the kind of liberal bullshit that has taken over discourse in both the US and Europe. The US and Russia don't have to be enemies. I can easily envision a future where family values, the church and security are restored to their proper place in society. It will take some left field thinking on the part of both countries. The truth is that the rump of both countries have enough enemies without and within to form an alliance. The US must give up their hopeless idealism though. That view is not sustainable going forward.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 31, 2015, 02:57:52 AM
Quote from: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:03:08 AM
I can easily envision a future where family values, the church and security are restored to their proper place in society.
This is where it gets scary.
Which church in particular?
Which family is having their values restored? (Kardashians?)
And what security did you have in mind?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 03:27:07 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 31, 2015, 02:57:52 AM
Quote from: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:03:08 AM
I can easily envision a future where family values, the church and security are restored to their proper place in society.
This is where it gets scary.
Which church in particular?
Which family is having their values restored? (Kardashians?)
And what security did you have in mind?

Well, that is easy.In the US  it would be the preysbeterian/evangelican  churches. In Ireland it would be the Catholic church, In Russia it would be the Orthodox church. In England the Anglican church. The bottom line is that these churches have far more in common and have a common enemy (Islam). It makes no sense why we are at loggerheads. At one time we all marched under the crusaders flag. There is no reason we cannot do the same again.

personally I am not very religious but I understand the role of religion and how it is a glue for society. The Islamists understand this completely and it is why they are so powerful and it is why they will, eventually, if left unchecked,  conquer Europe.

I dislike your Kardasian jibe. the family is the key to western civilization. Other cultures don't value family. You only have to look at the female genital mutilation that goes on in African and muslim societies to understand that "family" for them does not include daughters. This is wrong and we should exclaim against this brutality from the rooftops. Defending family has been turned into something that people in the west can laugh at and belittle republicans in the US and Russians. It may not be "cool" but it is worth protecting.

As for security. You will find out. Teach your kids Arabic. they will need it. One day they may have to use it plea for their lives.

You probably think the Americans will come and save you. Think again.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2015, 11:43:20 AM
The last post would suggest we have a far right neo Nazi type extremist in our midst.
That Brevik mass murderer used to come out with stuff like that.
Hopefully this lad will grow out of his simplistic dangerous mindset.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 31, 2015, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 01:21:17 AM
Quote from: stew on October 31, 2015, 01:05:07 AM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 10:08:29 PM
well, hang on a minute. There are some genuine questions that need to be answered about Benghazi. You cant simply dismiss them because you take a particular side in the (fatuous) American debate. It is ridiculous that a so called world power can allow their embassy to be overrun by a rag-tag bunch of allahu akbars. Surely something was wrong ?


There was, clinton got hundreds of requests for more security and denied them all, the top man begged her in some of the last ones and she claimed never to have gotten the emails.

I cant figure you out. One minute you are agreeing with Muppet then you surprise me !

The real weakness is the fact that you are having these "inquiries". Cant you see that this constant self questioning will lead to your ruin. Seriously, a bunch of allalu akhbars overran your embassy, murdered your envoy and you are looking within to find a scapegoat.

Jesus wept, you lads make it too easy for vlad to step in  ;D

I am Irish an from Armagh, I have live in the States twenty years.

No figuring out required, I am conservative thinking over here, if I had lived in the North I would have voted to keep a Unionist out and if living in England I would have voted Labour.

The tories are hateful bastards but the sheep elected them and are now paying the price and I am a big fan of the SNP.

That is all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2015, 11:43:20 AM
The last post would suggest we have a far right neo Nazi type extremist in our midst.
That Brevik mass murderer used to come out with stuff like that.
Hopefully this lad will grow out of his simplistic dangerous mindset.

On the contrary I believe diversity is a good thing. It can bring needed skills and is a net positive for society. However,
there is a difference between diversity and what is going on in Europe right now. There is too much cultural change and it is happening too fast.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: stew on October 31, 2015, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 01:21:17 AM
Quote from: stew on October 31, 2015, 01:05:07 AM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 10:08:29 PM
well, hang on a minute. There are some genuine questions that need to be answered about Benghazi. You cant simply dismiss them because you take a particular side in the (fatuous) American debate. It is ridiculous that a so called world power can allow their embassy to be overrun by a rag-tag bunch of allahu akbars. Surely something was wrong ?


There was, clinton got hundreds of requests for more security and denied them all, the top man begged her in some of the last ones and she claimed never to have gotten the emails.

I cant figure you out. One minute you are agreeing with Muppet then you surprise me !

The real weakness is the fact that you are having these "inquiries". Cant you see that this constant self questioning will lead to your ruin. Seriously, a bunch of allalu akhbars overran your embassy, murdered your envoy and you are looking within to find a scapegoat.

Jesus wept, you lads make it too easy for vlad to step in  ;D

I am Irish an from Armagh, I have live in the States twenty years.

No figuring out required, I am conservative thinking over here, if I had lived in the North I would have voted to keep a Unionist out and if living in England I would have voted Labour.

The tories are hateful b**tards but the sheep elected them and are now paying the price and I am a big fan of the SNP.

That is all.

Whilst I am with you on the tories being bastards (from an Irish perspective) due to the historical associations i.e. Thatcher etc it makes no sense to declare yourself a conservative in the US and hating conservative policies in the UK since being conservative in the US puts you even further to the right than a UK conservative !

I'm not having a go I am just pointing out that this is what seems to be the problem in Western society. This "identity" politics where everybody votes for one thing in the secrecy of the ballot box and then go to great pains to maintain a neutral PC identity in public discourse because they don't want to get hammered for their views. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 31, 2015, 03:05:28 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2015, 11:43:20 AM
The last post would suggest we have a far right neo Nazi type extremist in our midst.
That Brevik mass murderer used to come out with stuff like that.
Hopefully this lad will grow out of his simplistic dangerous mindset.

On the contrary I believe diversity is a good thing. It can bring needed skills and is a net positive for society. However,
there is a difference between diversity and what is going on in Europe right now. There is too much cultural change and it is happening too fast.

These people are human beings and need taken care of for now, Putin is the reason this is happening, if he would stop propping the arsehole running Syria up he would be taken down and people would not have to flee.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2015, 03:44:05 PM
Assad isn't a US lackey therefore he has to go.
If the US and the rest hadn't armed the anti Assad (incl IS) we'd have no flood of refugees.
If assholes have to be got rid of in the middle East how about starting in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain?
You know Saudi - where women have no rights, it's a Capital offence to hold a non Muslim religious service and all the rest.
But of course they're pro US assholes so that's grand so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 03:58:03 PM
People are happy to consume Saudi oil whilst complaining about Saudi human rights violations. I don't think people are willing to sacrifice anything so the situation will never change. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2015, 05:45:52 PM
Only people in the west value families?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2015, 07:00:08 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:03:08 AM
I can easily envision a future where family values, the church and security are restored to their proper place in society.

What is the church's "proper" place in society?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2015, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:03:08 AM
One thing you should keep in mind stew is that Russia and the American right have many values in common. Both have a visceral hatred of the kind of liberal bullshit that has taken over discourse in both the US and Europe. The US and Russia don't have to be enemies. I can easily envision a future where family values, the church and security are restored to their proper place in society. It will take some left field thinking on the part of both countries. The truth is that the rump of both countries have enough enemies without and within to form an alliance. The US must give up their hopeless idealism though. That view is not sustainable going forward.

Define "family values".

And what is the "proper" place of "the church "?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 04:29:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2015, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:03:08 AM
One thing you should keep in mind stew is that Russia and the American right have many values in common. Both have a visceral hatred of the kind of liberal bullshit that has taken over discourse in both the US and Europe. The US and Russia don't have to be enemies. I can easily envision a future where family values, the church and security are restored to their proper place in society. It will take some left field thinking on the part of both countries. The truth is that the rump of both countries have enough enemies without and within to form an alliance. The US must give up their hopeless idealism though. That view is not sustainable going forward.

Define "family values".

And what is the "proper" place of "the church "?

Do you have a family yourself and do you live in Europe ? the US ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 01, 2015, 06:37:35 PM
Relevance?

Still curious as to how these appear to be your family values.
And you admire the role of religion- and lo and behold it gets a key spot in your manifesto.
Trll me more about the security part though

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2015, 03:44:05 PM
Assad isn't a US lackey therefore he has to go.
If the US and the rest hadn't armed the anti Assad (incl IS) we'd have no flood of refugees.
If assholes have to be got rid of in the middle East how about starting in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain?
You know Saudi - where women have no rights, it's a Capital offence to hold a non Muslim religious service and all the rest.
But of course they're pro US assholes so that's grand so.

Exactly. It is these family values that I am talking about.

As for Assad. Its always the same modus operandi isn't it....."weapons of mass destruction, must remove..blah, blah". Thankfully Obama was too weak to act on his red line on the use of chemical weapons otherwise the place would be even more destabilized.

Hopefully order will now be restored by the Assad/Russia and the American backed so-called "Free Syrian Army" that started all this mess will be wiped out.

I wonder would it be possible to restore the Ba'athists to power in Iraq ? I think that is the most feasable option to restore stability to Iraq. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2015, 02:19:58 AM
Quote from: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 04:29:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2015, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 02:03:08 AM
One thing you should keep in mind stew is that Russia and the American right have many values in common. Both have a visceral hatred of the kind of liberal bullshit that has taken over discourse in both the US and Europe. The US and Russia don't have to be enemies. I can easily envision a future where family values, the church and security are restored to their proper place in society. It will take some left field thinking on the part of both countries. The truth is that the rump of both countries have enough enemies without and within to form an alliance. The US must give up their hopeless idealism though. That view is not sustainable going forward.

Define "family values".

And what is the "proper" place of "the church "?

Do you have a family yourself and do you live in Europe ? the US ?

Yes and US.

Back to my questions ...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 02, 2015, 09:48:54 AM
Quote from: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2015, 03:44:05 PM
Assad isn't a US lackey therefore he has to go.
If the US and the rest hadn't armed the anti Assad (incl IS) we'd have no flood of refugees.
If assholes have to be got rid of in the middle East how about starting in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain?
You know Saudi - where women have no rights, it's a Capital offence to hold a non Muslim religious service and all the rest.
But of course they're pro US assholes so that's grand so.

Exactly. It is these family values that I am talking about.

As for Assad. Its always the same modus operandi isn't it....."weapons of mass destruction, must remove..blah, blah". Thankfully Obama was too weak to act on his red line on the use of chemical weapons otherwise the place would be even more destabilized.

Hopefully order will now be restored by the Assad/Russia and the American backed so-called "Free Syrian Army" that started all this mess will be wiped out.

I wonder would it be possible to restore the Ba'athists to power in Iraq ? I think that is the most feasable option to restore stability to Iraq.

Just like the success in removing Gaddafi in Libya has proven to be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 06:12:19 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2015, 09:48:54 AM
Quote from: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2015, 03:44:05 PM
Assad isn't a US lackey therefore he has to go.
If the US and the rest hadn't armed the anti Assad (incl IS) we'd have no flood of refugees.
If assholes have to be got rid of in the middle East how about starting in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain?
You know Saudi - where women have no rights, it's a Capital offence to hold a non Muslim religious service and all the rest.
But of course they're pro US assholes so that's grand so.

Exactly. It is these family values that I am talking about.

As for Assad. Its always the same modus operandi isn't it....."weapons of mass destruction, must remove..blah, blah". Thankfully Obama was too weak to act on his red line on the use of chemical weapons otherwise the place would be even more destabilized.

Hopefully order will now be restored by the Assad/Russia and the American backed so-called "Free Syrian Army" that started all this mess will be wiped out.

I wonder would it be possible to restore the Ba'athists to power in Iraq ? I think that is the most feasable option to restore stability to Iraq.

Just like the success in removing Gaddafi in Libya has proven to be.

Sorry, but your reply makes no sense ? Did I pick you up wrong ?

I speculated whether restoring the previous political apparatus (in Iraq) which existed for decades could be restored in the name of stability. You seemed to equate this with removing a political apparatus (in Libya) that existed for decades ??

I am not saying that it IS possible but since the entire western world seem to be saying that it was a mistake to remove the Ba'ath regime then maybe restoring it would be a good thing. If Russia did succeed in shoring up the the (loosely) Ba'athist regime in Syria the platform would be in place to relaunch Ba'athism in Iraq.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 06:43:22 PM
An interesting article here about the decline of Western democracy.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ernesto-gallo-giovanni-biava/western-democracy-decline-and (https://www.opendemocracy.net/ernesto-gallo-giovanni-biava/western-democracy-decline-and)

A précis of the decline is that people have stopped trusting the economy and the faith in markets. The glaring anomaly of monetary union without political union has become obvious. Ineffective, weak western leadership has led to people looking toward the more decisive leadership model of Russia and to wonder about the gap in society left by the abandonment or organized religion (especially in the face of the devout Islam).

They then propose solutions which, unfortunately, lean toward the usual , kumbaya nonsense however "no party leader has so far been able to grasp and articulate the sensibility of battered citizens" certainly rings a bell. However, they then appoint Pope Francis to this role  ::) which is bollocks. At the precise time that a pope is needed to restore the churches reputation and reassert the confidence of the faithful he seems more interested in spouting populist, leftist statements. Stick to poping Francis, we have enough people telling us we need to "do more" for xyz.

They then propose more transnational politics and a more active UN which seems to me to be impractical and will just amplify the EU flaws to a worldwide scale.

I think we need a reset of western democracy to the Chinese model followed by a gradual, slow restoration of "democracy". The key point is to keep the bed wetters away from power so that they don't sell us all up the river again and always keep a close eye on them thereafter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2015, 07:52:45 PM
Chinese model of "democracy".....
FFS ??? ::)
Foxcommander has lost his title of Daftest poster on GAABoard  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:04:44 PM
A little poetic license is sometimes needed to provoke  ;)

I am trying to identify minds worthy of engagement. As the Americans might say, Is anyone willing to "go to bat" in defence of western democracy ?

You certainly don't seem to be of the right material. You belong more in Europes hipster army tackling the worlds despots via the like button on facebook.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:15:44 PM
The Chinese are remarkable. The advances they have made in the last 20 years are incredible. The fact that they moved completely away from a set way of political and economic thinking to embrace an "enemy" mindset just empahsizes this change. Can you imagine the internal conflict this change must have caused in the minds of ordinary citizens yet they have managed it peacefully with minimal social disorder.

I think the modern western world would be incapable of such a shift.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2015, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:15:44 PM
The Chinese are remarkable. The advances they have made in the last 20 years are incredible. The fact that they moved completely away from a set way of political and economic thinking to embrace an "enemy" mindset just empahsizes this change. Can you imagine the internal conflict this change must have caused in the minds of ordinary citizens yet they have managed it peacefully with minimum social disorder.

I think the modern western world would be incapable of such a shift.

The Chinese abandoned communism, skipped enlightenment and jumped straight to the money God.

Just like the Russians.

Reminds me of the Oscar Wilde quote regarding America: "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

I am impressed though that they chose not to pretend to give the token nod to religion in they way much of The West does.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:44:36 PM
I would argue that they didn't skip enlightenment they simply passed through it long before the west, recognized its extremes,  and settled for stability over disorder. This is central to their thinking. Like mao said of the French revolution, it is too early to tell.

On the "US skipped civilization" theme. Is that not the problem ? The US is a transplanted colony that have "forgotten" everything that European/Asian society have passed through to get to this point. Therefore they just don't understand the pragmatism needed to negotiate the European/Asiatic mindset. Putin understands this mindset perfectly. He has the centuries of cultural nuance that we all, as Europeans, innately understand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2015, 08:48:33 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:44:36 PM
I would argue that they didn't skip enlightenment they simply passed through it long before the west, recognized its extremes,  and settled for stability over disorder. This is central to their thinking. Like mao said of the French revolution, it is too early to tell.

On the "US skipped civilization" theme. Is that not the problem ? The US is a transplanted colony that have "forgotten" everything that European/Asian society have passed through to get to this point. Therefore they just don't understand the pragmatism needed to negotiate the European/Asiatic mindset. Putin understands this mindset perfectly. He has the centuries of cultural nuance that we all, as Europeans, innately understand.

You are arguing that they went from enlightenment to communism and then to the money God?

If that is the case, who knows where they will go next.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:51:02 PM
Westerners must give up on this idea of "universal human rights". The only rights due to citizens are the rights they earn through their service to the society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2015, 08:54:58 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:51:02 PM
Westerners must give up on this idea of "universal human rights". The only rights due to citizens are the rights they earn through their service to the society.

But who will decide and police these rights?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 03, 2015, 08:58:53 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:51:02 PM
Westerners must give up on this idea of "universal human rights". The only rights due to citizens are the rights they earn through their service to the society.

Very Orwellian that spake!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:01:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 08:48:33 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:44:36 PM
I would argue that they didn't skip enlightenment they simply passed through it long before the west, recognized its extremes,  and settled for stability over disorder. This is central to their thinking. Like mao said of the French revolution, it is too early to tell.

On the "US skipped civilization" theme. Is that not the problem ? The US is a transplanted colony that have "forgotten" everything that European/Asian society have passed through to get to this point. Therefore they just don't understand the pragmatism needed to negotiate the European/Asiatic mindset. Putin understands this mindset perfectly. He has the centuries of cultural nuance that we all, as Europeans, innately understand.

You are arguing that they went from enlightenment to communism and then to the money God?

If that is the case, who knows where they will go next.

Yup. Communism was a misstep. It was a bad fit. Just because they like order does not mean they are not enterprising. In fact stability and order has seen an explosion of creative energy and commercial success.

Where they will go next ? I think they will dominate. They simply don't suffer from the same internal conflict "we" do. You may say that is a bad thing...I don't think so. If the goal is to prosper while maintaining with a strong, resilient cultural identity,  I think they have the right formula.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 03, 2015, 09:06:58 PM
Kursk in the movies:

https://youtu.be/azM6xSTT2I0?t=1m24s

I picture him as blonde with a pony tail...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:09:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 08:54:58 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 08:51:02 PM
Westerners must give up on this idea of "universal human rights". The only rights due to citizens are the rights they earn through their service to the society.

But who will decide and police these rights?

Good question but why use the word "police" ..? There should be no need to police something that is self evident. The yanks might have fecked everything else up but they were right about the self-evident bit. What they got wrong was that the self-evidence was particular to a given culture which is why multi-culturalism does not work. These self-evident truths are different to different people. I know that is inconvenient to the Kumbaya Pete Seeger crew but..there you go. That's what true diversity means. Accepting differences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:16:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 03, 2015, 09:06:58 PM
Kursk in the movies:

https://youtu.be/azM6xSTT2I0?t=1m24s

I picture him as blonde with a pony tail...

No, that is exactly the opposite of what I am saying. That scene sums up perfectly the whole problem. You just want debates where you can be the hero that rides in and tells everybody that things will be ok if we just respect the oppressed minority.

I am telling you the repressed minority is infact part of a towelheaded, fanatic majority that wants to wipe you out and I would like to see Russian military footage of him being vapourized. Just for shits and grins  :D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:58:08 PM
The women who fight against IS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpesgydG5sQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpesgydG5sQ)

meanwhile Europes hipsters army cheers their heros from the audience ..."f**k ya Eurpica"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHOHvkK3TUo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHOHvkK3TUo)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 10:58:07 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:16:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 03, 2015, 09:06:58 PM
Kursk in the movies:

https://youtu.be/azM6xSTT2I0?t=1m24s

I picture him as blonde with a pony tail...

No, that is exactly the opposite of what I am saying. That scene sums up perfectly the whole problem. You just want debates where you can be the hero that rides in and tells everybody that things will be ok if we just respect the oppressed minority.

I am telling you the repressed minority is infact part of a towelheaded, fanatic majority that wants to wipe you out and I would like to see Russian military footage of him being vapourized. Just for shits and grins  :D

btw..you are the asian guy in the background throwing shapes as the main characters duke out  ;D

How d'ya like me now heganboy  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 11:37:35 PM
here is some footage on how to deal with recaltrant provinces..plus a bit of rap to keep the western kids onside !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sjAcn_1NW8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sjAcn_1NW8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 11:46:49 PM
and in case you think this is extreme, here are "Allah's angels"  ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sisTbmXBq4A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sisTbmXBq4A)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 04, 2015, 01:01:44 AM

who is more "racist"  in this situation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M)

"Do you think he is bringing his children up to be tolerant of our children ?
"No"
"He's telling us we've got the devil in us etc etc"


Its not what we think of them, it is what they think of us.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kursk on November 04, 2015, 01:09:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5L9SExquao (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5L9SExquao)

who are your daughters trying to seduce lads ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 04, 2015, 08:46:24 AM
Just 100 posts in and he has spun into madness.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 04, 2015, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 06:43:22 PM
An interesting article here about the decline of Western democracy.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ernesto-gallo-giovanni-biava/western-democracy-decline-and (https://www.opendemocracy.net/ernesto-gallo-giovanni-biava/western-democracy-decline-and)

A précis of the decline is that people have stopped trusting the economy and the faith in markets. The glaring anomaly of monetary union without political union has become obvious. Ineffective, weak western leadership has led to people looking toward the more decisive leadership model of Russia and to wonder about the gap in society left by the abandonment or organized religion (especially in the face of the devout Islam).

They then propose solutions which, unfortunately, lean toward the usual , kumbaya nonsense however "no party leader has so far been able to grasp and articulate the sensibility of battered citizens" certainly rings a bell. However, they then appoint Pope Francis to this role  ::) which is bollocks. At the precise time that a pope is needed to restore the churches reputation and reassert the confidence of the faithful he seems more interested in spouting populist, leftist statements. Stick to poping Francis, we have enough people telling us we need to "do more" for xyz.

They then propose more transnational politics and a more active UN which seems to me to be impractical and will just amplify the EU flaws to a worldwide scale.

I think we need a reset of western democracy to the Chinese model followed by a gradual, slow restoration of "democracy". The key point is to keep the bed wetters away from power so that they don't sell us all up the river again and always keep a close eye on them thereafter.

Yeah Francis! Keep that whole Christianity sh1t out of your message.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2015, 07:51:41 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 06:43:22 PM

Ineffective, weak western leadership has led to people looking toward the more decisive leadership model of Russia ...


Sweet Jesus. What planet is this fella on?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2015, 12:25:22 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2015, 07:51:41 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 06:43:22 PM

Ineffective, weak western leadership has led to people looking toward the more decisive leadership model of Russia ...


Sweet Jesus. What planet is this fella on?

And who are all these people  casting longing eyes towards Putin and the Chinese and waiting  for the return to "family values "  (still waiting  on a definition  for that!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 02:48:05 PM
Great (long) article today about the rural poor in Eastern Kentucky.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/12/beattyville-kentucky-and-americas-poorest-towns
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 12, 2015, 06:42:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 04, 2015, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 06:43:22 PM
An interesting article here about the decline of Western democracy.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ernesto-gallo-giovanni-biava/western-democracy-decline-and (https://www.opendemocracy.net/ernesto-gallo-giovanni-biava/western-democracy-decline-and)

A précis of the decline is that people have stopped trusting the economy and the faith in markets. The glaring anomaly of monetary union without political union has become obvious. Ineffective, weak western leadership has led to people looking toward the more decisive leadership model of Russia and to wonder about the gap in society left by the abandonment or organized religion (especially in the face of the devout Islam).

They then propose solutions which, unfortunately, lean toward the usual , kumbaya nonsense however "no party leader has so far been able to grasp and articulate the sensibility of battered citizens" certainly rings a bell. However, they then appoint Pope Francis to this role  ::) which is bollocks. At the precise time that a pope is needed to restore the churches reputation and reassert the confidence of the faithful he seems more interested in spouting populist, leftist statements. Stick to poping Francis, we have enough people telling us we need to "do more" for xyz.

They then propose more transnational politics and a more active UN which seems to me to be impractical and will just amplify the EU flaws to a worldwide scale.

I think we need a reset of western democracy to the Chinese model followed by a gradual, slow restoration of "democracy". The key point is to keep the bed wetters away from power so that they don't sell us all up the river again and always keep a close eye on them thereafter.

Yeah Francis! Keep that whole Christianity sh1t out of your message.

;D  great point Leo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 07, 2016, 02:27:42 PM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  · 1h1 hour ago 
Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

Good man Donald 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 07, 2016, 02:27:42 PM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  · 1h1 hour ago 
Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

Good man Donald

President Trump 2016. It's gonna be great.

(http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-80707182936312/we-shall-overcomb-trump-for-president-t-shirt-2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 07, 2016, 02:38:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 07, 2016, 02:27:42 PM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  · 1h1 hour ago 
Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

Good man Donald

President Trump 2016. It's gonna be great.

(http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-80707182936312/we-shall-overcomb-trump-for-president-t-shirt-2.jpg)

It really is it'll be entertaining and a spectacle but it will really highlight all the things wrong with America as well. If he gets in . . . well that doesn't even bare thinking about. The whole shebang will be couped!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2016, 02:38:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 07, 2016, 02:27:42 PM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  · 1h1 hour ago 
Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

Good man Donald

President Trump 2016. It's gonna be great.

(http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-80707182936312/we-shall-overcomb-trump-for-president-t-shirt-2.jpg)

It really is it'll be entertaining and a spectacle but it will really highlight all the things wrong with America as well. If he gets in . . . well that doesn't even bare thinking about. The whole shebang will be couped!!!

Like him or not he's opening up discussions that Obama will never bring to the fore and nor will any of the safe politicians who are still jockeying for position.
It's that approach that the a lot of american people like or at least grudgingly admire.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 07, 2016, 04:39:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2016, 02:38:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 07, 2016, 02:27:42 PM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  · 1h1 hour ago 
Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

Good man Donald

President Trump 2016. It's gonna be great.

(http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-80707182936312/we-shall-overcomb-trump-for-president-t-shirt-2.jpg)

It really is it'll be entertaining and a spectacle but it will really highlight all the things wrong with America as well. If he gets in . . . well that doesn't even bare thinking about. The whole shebang will be couped!!!

Like him or not he's opening up discussions that Obama will never bring to the fore and nor will any of the safe politicians who are still jockeying for position.
It's that approach that the a lot of american people like or at least grudgingly admire.

That may be true but the way he's framing the debate makes him look Racist/Xenophobic/Mysogynistic/a complet buffoon.

There is a reason why most career politicians don't do what Trump does. . . it doesn't win you votes in the long run!!!

It's a bit like the Reality TV Stars who come on and say "I say what I want and don't care what people think." The reason most people don't say what they want and what they think all the time is because they have a conscience and realise it's bad manneres and makes you a ****!!

It can get you success in the business/celebrity world but as a politician I'm afraid not and ultimately it is why he will lose!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2016, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2016, 02:38:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 07, 2016, 02:27:42 PM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  · 1h1 hour ago 
Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

Good man Donald

President Trump 2016. It's gonna be great.

(http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-80707182936312/we-shall-overcomb-trump-for-president-t-shirt-2.jpg)

It really is it'll be entertaining and a spectacle but it will really highlight all the things wrong with America as well. If he gets in . . . well that doesn't even bare thinking about. The whole shebang will be couped!!!

Like him or not he's opening up discussions that Obama will never bring to the fore and nor will any of the safe politicians who are still jockeying for position.
It's that approach that the a lot of american people like or at least grudgingly admire.

Fear mongering and demonization and scapegoating is always a fairly safe bet for a public figure to make waves. Paisley made a career out of it on two fronts.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on January 07, 2016, 05:42:54 PM
Local media are reporting that the Trump campaign have issued 20,000 free tickets for a talk he is to give tonight in a theater up here in Burlington Vermont  with a seating capacity of only  a couple of thousand - Needless to say the local police are apes*it about it in regards to crowd control for those who cannot get in - It's a first come first in admission system
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 05:56:40 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2016, 04:39:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2016, 02:38:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 07, 2016, 02:27:42 PM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  · 1h1 hour ago 
Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

Good man Donald

President Trump 2016. It's gonna be great.

(http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-80707182936312/we-shall-overcomb-trump-for-president-t-shirt-2.jpg)

It really is it'll be entertaining and a spectacle but it will really highlight all the things wrong with America as well. If he gets in . . . well that doesn't even bare thinking about. The whole shebang will be couped!!!

Like him or not he's opening up discussions that Obama will never bring to the fore and nor will any of the safe politicians who are still jockeying for position.
It's that approach that the a lot of american people like or at least grudgingly admire.

That may be true but the way he's framing the debate makes him look Racist/Xenophobic/Mysogynistic/a complet buffoon.

There is a reason why most career politicians don't do what Trump does. . . it doesn't win you votes in the long run!!!

It's a bit like the Reality TV Stars who come on and say "I say what I want and don't care what people think." The reason most people don't say what they want and what they think all the time is because they have a conscience and realise it's bad manneres and makes you a ****!!

It can get you success in the business/celebrity world but as a politician I'm afraid not and ultimately it is why he will lose!

Trump isn't a career politician so that's why he doesn't give a rats.

I agree his framing is a little off however valid some of his points may be.

You got to admit though it would be very interesting to see how he would perform if he did take office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 07, 2016, 08:18:31 PM
Yeah, Fascism in action is fun to watch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 07, 2016, 08:27:48 PM
Fascism Orais........The man is a democrat, don't believe me, look at his contributions and what has come out of his mouth prior to 2013!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2016, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: stew on January 07, 2016, 08:27:48 PM
Fascism Orais........The man is a democrat, don't believe me, look at his contributions and what has come out of his mouth prior to 2013!

Like the birther nonsense in 2011?

Honestly, I don't believe he gives a f**k about ANY political issue, except in so far as it will benefit him or his businesses. Hence, his contributions cover the whole spectrum as he has tried to buy favourable treatment and regulations.

Which is why I don't get why the GOP base is so taken with him. Maybe he is being genuine, but I think he has studied, seen an opening for a bigoted populist, and dived fully into the part. At the end of the day, his only cause is being elected president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 09:31:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2016, 08:57:41 PM
Maybe he is being genuine, but I think he has studied, seen an opening for a bigoted populist, and dived fully into the part. At the end of the day, his only cause is being elected president.

Like the Kenyan lad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 07, 2016, 10:06:29 PM
Yes, Stew, he's definitely showing fascist traits.  He hasn't committed crimes against humanity, though his unabashed self-promotion is an offense to good taste, but he's playing a lot of fascist cards to slither his way into the White House.  The rhetoric is fascist, the only thing missing is the violence, though his response to a couple of supporters in Boston beating up a homeless man while mouthing anti-immigrant vitriol, after he said he "would never condone violence" , was in effect that he admired their passion.

No, like typical fascists, he is ultra-jingoistic, recalls an America that was once great but is now weak, appeals to a petit bourgeois class that feels socially and economically adrift by using racist language, creating the demon "other" or outsider who is to blame for all wrongs: he casts Mexicans as rapists and wants to keep them out with his feckin' Great Wall, never mind intern those millions who are here before mass deporting them, and seems to want to shut down mosques, or keep a very close eye on them, and wants to ban Moslems' entry into the country.  His speeches have an authoritarian militaristic tinge too.  He lacks any intellectual quality, is ignorant about geo-politics, and wins supporters by stoking raw passions.  In addition he is developing a cult following by insulting, bullying and demeaning others, especially foreigners and women.

He may not have all the attributes of a fascist but be sounds pretty fascistic to me.  Whether he actually believes all these things or not, they are playing very well in the white supremecist community.  Whatever it takes to take the White House, with the letters T-R-U-M-P tastefully mounted in gold on the front.  It'll be "spectacular." 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 07, 2016, 11:45:43 PM
Sounds like a certain Herr Hitler c1929........ :'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2016, 12:21:57 AM
As big of a fear monger Trump is I dont think you can label him with facisim

I dont think anyone who believes in the free market, the American dream etc etc could be called a facist. True he has certain traits in common with facists mainly populist tribalism, but that doesnt make him a facist as such.

He would appear to be opposed to totalitarianism and to be pro individualist as most American political ideologies (especially on the right) are, which are major tenets of facism. Throw in being one of the crassest proponents of the liberal market economy and youd have to say that he is defo not facist

Anyway idiot as he is, you can all him many things but throwing dramatic labels on him which aren't true will only help his cause.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 08, 2016, 01:08:00 AM
Joe, I think you're being a little dramatic yourself suggesting that anything I say will help his cause.  I talk to friends and made this one post on gaaboard.  I do wonder what American Dream he believes in.  The one where his dad gave him a mere million to get started.  Who wouldn't believe in that crazy dream.  He's such a megalomaniac that I see his latent totalitarian potential.  Trump's way, or you're FIRED or deported.  Yeah, I conceded that he's not the prototypical fascist, but he's showing a tendency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2016, 01:43:04 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 09:31:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2016, 08:57:41 PM
Maybe he is being genuine, but I think he has studied, seen an opening for a bigoted populist, and dived fully into the part. At the end of the day, his only cause is being elected president.

Like the Kenyan lad

Not remotely.

But go ahead and make your case.

And at least you scrubbed the bigotry from your description of Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 03:41:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2016, 01:43:04 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 09:31:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2016, 08:57:41 PM
Maybe he is being genuine, but I think he has studied, seen an opening for a bigoted populist, and dived fully into the part. At the end of the day, his only cause is being elected president.

Like the Kenyan lad

Not remotely.

But go ahead and make your case.

And at least you scrubbed the bigotry from your description of Obama.

That was a close one to be honest. Strikethrough won on a coin toss.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2016, 07:51:18 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 08, 2016, 01:08:00 AM
Joe, I think you're being a little dramatic yourself suggesting that anything I say will help his cause.  I talk to friends and made this one post on gaaboard.  I do wonder what American Dream he believes in.  The one where his dad gave him a mere million to get started.  Who wouldn't believe in that crazy dream.  He's such a megalomaniac that I see his latent totalitarian potential.  Trump's way, or you're FIRED or deported.  Yeah, I conceded that he's not the prototypical fascist, but he's showing a tendency.
Wasnt refering to you in particular Oraisteach, was more talking the press and public opinion that want to label him with what is widely considered the most vile political ideology to ever come about.

Thing is I feel that it is a sort of compliment to label him with any political ideology. When his ramblings are all put together its incoherent, conflicting, and pure reactionary, the only ideology it remotely relates to is populism, or DailyMailism perhaps?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2016, 12:21:57 AM
As big of a fear monger Trump is I dont think you can label him with facisim

I dont think anyone who believes in the free market, the American dream etc etc could be called a facist. True he has certain traits in common with facists mainly populist tribalism, but that doesnt make him a facist as such.

He would appear to be opposed to totalitarianism and to be pro individualist as most American political ideologies (especially on the right) are, which are major tenets of facism. Throw in being one of the crassest proponents of the liberal market economy and youd have to say that he is defo not facist

Anyway idiot as he is, you can all him many things but throwing dramatic labels on him which aren't true will only help his cause.
the fascists worked hand in hand with business. They preferred slave labour but anything that shafted ordinary people worked.
Fascism is not just about uniforms

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/fascism-i-sometimes-fear.html
"I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress

worn by grotesques and monsters

as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.


Fascism arrives as your friend.

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

remind you of how great you once were,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,

remove anything you feel is unlike you...


It doesn't walk in saying,

"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuDJ5aFDcd4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:26:44 AM
2011 roast of Donald Trump. Taking the piss is the best way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmHXkB2tUmg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,


I fail to see the problem with the above. Isn't that what all governments should be striving towards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 08, 2016, 01:39:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 07, 2016, 11:45:43 PM
Sounds like a certain Herr Hitler c1929........ :'(

Fack away aff Rossfan, that is the single dumbest thing I have ever read on here in 15 years, wise the f**k up ffs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2016, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,


I fail to see the problem with the above. Isn't that what all governments should be striving towards.

Restoring honour, making you feel proud??

Giving you a job??

Aren't you a right winger?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 08, 2016, 02:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,


I fail to see the problem with the above. Isn't that what all governments should be striving towards.

I thought you lads didn't want the Government involved in your lives??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 02:30:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2016, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,


I fail to see the problem with the above. Isn't that what all governments should be striving towards.

Restoring honour, making you feel proud??

Giving you a job??

Aren't you a right winger?

President Obama is greatest US president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 02:34:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 08, 2016, 02:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,


I fail to see the problem with the above. Isn't that what all governments should be striving towards.

I thought you lads didn't want the Government involved in your lives??!!

I didn't mean you work for the government...christ no. More like the things your country can provide for it's citizens (through public and private enterprise).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 08, 2016, 02:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,


I fail to see the problem with the above. Isn't that what all governments should be striving towards.

I thought you lads didn't want the Government involved in your lives??!!

And what do you mean by "you lads" ??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 08, 2016, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 08, 2016, 02:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,


I fail to see the problem with the above. Isn't that what all governments should be striving towards.

I thought you lads didn't want the Government involved in your lives??!!

And what do you mean by "you lads" ??

Republicans!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 03:04:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 08, 2016, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 08, 2016, 02:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,


I fail to see the problem with the above. Isn't that what all governments should be striving towards.

I thought you lads didn't want the Government involved in your lives??!!

And what do you mean by "you lads" ??

Republicans!

Thanks for the clarification. That could have gone a lot of different ways so wanted to be sure :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2016, 04:58:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2016, 09:19:00 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2016, 12:21:57 AM
As big of a fear monger Trump is I dont think you can label him with facisim

I dont think anyone who believes in the free market, the American dream etc etc could be called a facist. True he has certain traits in common with facists mainly populist tribalism, but that doesnt make him a facist as such.

He would appear to be opposed to totalitarianism and to be pro individualist as most American political ideologies (especially on the right) are, which are major tenets of facism. Throw in being one of the crassest proponents of the liberal market economy and youd have to say that he is defo not facist

Anyway idiot as he is, you can all him many things but throwing dramatic labels on him which aren't true will only help his cause.
the fascists worked hand in hand with business. They preferred slave labour but anything that shafted ordinary people worked.
Fascism is not just about uniforms

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/fascism-i-sometimes-fear.html
"I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress

worn by grotesques and monsters

as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.


Fascism arrives as your friend.

It will restore your honour,

make you feel proud,

protect your house,

give you a job,

clean up the neighbourhood,

remind you of how great you once were,

clear out the venal and the corrupt,

remove anything you feel is unlike you...


It doesn't walk in saying,

"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuDJ5aFDcd4

Your first point about Fascism is not incorrect, it does propose working with businesses but the ideology is a proponent of a mixed economy certainly not the liberal market economy that Trump and all of the US presidential candidates espouse (with the exception of maybe Sanders). But the ideology of fascisim certainly does not involve shafting the ordinary working man as you say, unlike the capitalist system where it is in build

Fail to see what the rest of the above has got to do with my points, wouldnt disagree with it and none of it makes Trump a facist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2016, 05:23:02 PM
Trump and his supporters put the n in cuts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsPpaML3nrg

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 12, 2016, 02:33:06 PM
Oh dear, it seems The FBI have changed their investigation in Hillary Clinton somewhat,, actually they have just opened another branch of the investigation, not only is Clinton being looked at for her handling of classified emails, she is now being investigated. for corruption, specifically monies paid into their foundation when she. Was Secretary of State.

It appears that some generous donors benefited by being given lucrative contracts, if true that should end with her in jail, I don't think it will but this repugnant bitch is unfit to be President of the Usa.

Hillary is in full denial mode, she is saying that the FBI are not going down this path, question for you Hillary apologists, how the feck would she know what they FBI are doing or not doing pertaining to her case?I'm
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2016, 02:53:07 PM
Give it up Stew.....didn't you know that all Democrats are good and all Republicans are bad, all Democrats  are working people and all Republicans are millionaires.

Didn't you also know that NO Democrats are rascist or Islamophobic or Homophobic or flat out stupid?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 12, 2016, 03:15:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2016, 02:53:07 PM
Give it up Stew.....didn't you know that all Democrats are good and all Republicans are bad, all Democrats  are working people and all Republicans are millionaires.

Didn't you also know that NO Democrats are rascist or Islamophobic or Homophobic or flat out stupid?

I never knew that until I came on here Whitey, some of these lads on here have a simple pholosophy, it seems to be democrats good Republicans bad, they blame the republicans on pretty much everything, even though the country is under a mountain of debt this President has amassed.

To me it is dangerous thinking to believe there is no good in 50% of the populations political leanings, this is idiotic and I believe there needs to be a move from both parties to come to the center, it is stupidity to blindly believe the opposition does not have something to offer, if ever a country needed a kick up the arise it is getting it, Trump is an arsehole but he has tapped into how people feel about career politicians and the corruption in Washington
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2016, 07:04:16 PM
But who is saying "there is no good in 50% of the country's leanings"?

I have conservative friends with whom I agree about plenty. The two parties agree about plenty FFS.

The differences are pretty dramatic though, and that is where the division lies.

And while Islamophobia and homophobia and hostility to black grievances may exist in individuals in the Democratic Party, they're not part of the rhetoric or platform.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 12, 2016, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2016, 07:04:16 PM
But who is saying "there is no good in 50% of the country's leanings"?

I have conservative friends with whom I agree about plenty. The two parties agree about plenty FFS.

The differences are pretty dramatic though, and that is where the division lies.

And while Islamophobia and homophobia and hostility to black grievances may exist in individuals in the Democratic Party, they're not part of the rhetoric or platform.

Grow up 70, you cannot really think that the phobias of which you spoke are belong to the right exclusively?

People from all walks of life here in the states are concerned about their safety, many are tired of black lives matter, I am one of those, they ignore black on black crime and focus on the police, they black community deserves to be treated like everyone else but they let themselves down when they talk of frying pigs like bacon and cops have died at the hands of scumbags who bought into what they are selling.

Homophobia is down to the individual person and I have heard many liberals slabber about fags, maggots and queers, you show your true colors when you speak of these phobias and if you truly believe the right and only the right believe in these things you are soft in the head.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2016, 11:17:46 PM
When a liberal bigot speaks up his poll numbers go down.

When a conservative bigot speaks up his poll numbers go up.

That's the difference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2016, 11:49:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2016, 11:17:46 PM
When a liberal bigot speaks up his poll numbers go down.

When a conservative bigot speaks up his poll numbers go up.

That's the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2016, 12:17:09 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2016, 11:17:46 PM
When a liberal bigot speaks up his poll numbers go down.

When a conservative bigot speaks up his poll numbers go up.

That's the difference.

When a liberal sexually assaults a woman (or leaves one to drown in a crashed car) their poll numbers go up

When a conservative makes a clumsy comment about reproductive rights (they're declaring a war on women) their poll numbers go down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2016, 01:02:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2016, 12:17:09 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2016, 11:17:46 PM
When a liberal bigot speaks up his poll numbers go down.

When a conservative bigot speaks up his poll numbers go up.

That's the difference.

When a liberal sexually assaults a woman (or leaves one to drown in a crashed car) their poll numbers go up

When a conservative makes a clumsy comment about reproductive rights (they're declaring a war on women) their poll numbers go down
Conservatives have ignored the female and Latino votes for so long. the Rove magic made them complacent. Now it is payback time,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2016, 01:07:50 AM
Quote from: stew on January 12, 2016, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2016, 07:04:16 PM
But who is saying "there is no good in 50% of the country's leanings"?

I have conservative friends with whom I agree about plenty. The two parties agree about plenty FFS.

The differences are pretty dramatic though, and that is where the division lies.

And while Islamophobia and homophobia and hostility to black grievances may exist in individuals in the Democratic Party, they're not part of the rhetoric or platform.

Grow up 70, you cannot really think that the phobias of which you spoke are belong to the right exclusively?

People from all walks of life here in the states are concerned about their safety, many are tired of black lives matter, I am one of those, they ignore black on black crime and focus on the police, they black community deserves to be treated like everyone else but they let themselves down when they talk of frying pigs like bacon and cops have died at the hands of scumbags who bought into what they are selling.

Homophobia is down to the individual person and I have heard many liberals slabber about fags, maggots and queers, you show your true colors when you speak of these phobias and if you truly believe the right and only the right believe in these things you are soft in the head.

What part of "And while Islamophobia and homophobia and hostility to black grievances may exist in individuals in the Democratic Party," do you not understand?

Yet there is only one side on which homophobia and islamophobia and misrepresentation of legitimate black grievances and so on is winning political rhetoric.

How many GOP politicians out there are publicly pro-gay marriage, for example? I can think of Rob Portman (Ohio senator) and no one else off the top of my head. And you know why and when Portman changed his mind? When his own son came out as gay, that's when.

How many of them are publicly in agreement with science and the vast majority of rest of the planet on climate change?

Some of them used to be, but now they can't admit to it, because they'll be primaried two seconds after they do.

So yeah, ONCE AGAIN, there are individual members of the left and Democratic party who espouse all of the objectionable views you list, but those are not part of the political platform and rhetoric of the left and Democratic party as whole.

The Democratic Party and liberalism in general have plenty of faults and do not have anywhere close to all the answers. But compared to the reactionary rabble that comprises the GOP of late, they're the epitome of enlightenment and reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2016, 01:29:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2016, 12:17:09 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2016, 11:17:46 PM
When a liberal bigot speaks up his poll numbers go down.

When a conservative bigot speaks up his poll numbers go up.

That's the difference.

When a liberal sexually assaults a woman (or leaves one to drown in a crashed car) their poll numbers go up

When a conservative makes a clumsy comment about reproductive rights (they're declaring a war on women) their poll numbers go down

I'll give you Kennedy (it still boggles my mind!), but do you really want to do a side-by-side list of hypocritical politicians with sexual indiscretions and crimes? There's plenty to go around. It took the Louisiana GOP supporters, for example, long enough to tire of David Vitter!

Juanita Broaderick, after recanting, finally came out with her allegation after 20 years, and right at the time Clinton was being impeached. Even if it was true, it stunk of political motivation, and the public was basically sick of the GOP campaign against him at that point. That her credibility was questioned is hardly shocking, especially given that some of the people she allegedly told at the time had cause to have issues with Clinton.

And the "war on women" was hardly just about those two senatorial candidates. They were just the idiots who showed what they really thought and were just the straw that broke the camel's back that year!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2016, 11:05:00 PM
A Georgia state representative (and more alarmingly, former school history teacher) had the following to say:

The Klan "was not so much a racist thing but a vigilante thing to keep law and order.... It made a lot of people straighten up...I'm not saying what they did was right. It's just the way things were."

He also says the civil war "was not fought over slavery"

http://investigations.blog.ajc.com/2016/01/28/ga-lawmaker-seeks-constitutional-protection-for-stone-mountain-carving/ (http://investigations.blog.ajc.com/2016/01/28/ga-lawmaker-seeks-constitutional-protection-for-stone-mountain-carving/)

Do we need more than one guess to figure out which party he belongs to? :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2016, 11:12:10 PM
And yet another fail for the right wing with the Planned Parenthood foetal body parts "controversy".

Texas, of all places, came up with only criminal charges for the makers of the videos! Planned Parenthood cleared of wrongdoing... again!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/28/texas-da-i-m-pro-life-but-the-law-is-the-law.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/28/texas-da-i-m-pro-life-but-the-law-is-the-law.html)

These charges and the murders at the clinic in Colorado are about the only concrete results of this fraudulent video campaign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 29, 2016, 01:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2016, 11:12:10 PM
And yet another fail for the right wing with the Planned Parenthood foetal body parts "controversy".

Texas, of all places, came up with only criminal charges for the makers of the videos! Planned Parenthood cleared of wrongdoing... again!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/28/texas-da-i-m-pro-life-but-the-law-is-the-law.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/28/texas-da-i-m-pro-life-but-the-law-is-the-law.html)

These charges and the murders at the clinic in Colorado are about the only concrete results of this fraudulent video campaign.

Indeed. But I expect the anti-abortionist-in-chief Carly Fiorina to keep on perpetuating this lie that PP was selling body parts. The conservative mind and conservative movement is a fact-free zone. Off they go in their little parallel universe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
felony charges for fake id I've heard it all now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 29, 2016, 05:32:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
felony charges for fake id I've heard it all now
Well, that and attempting to buy human tissue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2016, 05:46:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 29, 2016, 05:32:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
felony charges for fake id I've heard it all now
Well, that and attempting to buy human tissue.

That's like charging an underage drnker on a sting operation for trying to buy a six pak
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 29, 2016, 05:32:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
felony charges for fake id I've heard it all now
Well, that and attempting to buy human tissue.
the ones willing to sell are fine ? Or was there a sting operation on the attempted sting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 29, 2016, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2016, 05:46:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 29, 2016, 05:32:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
felony charges for fake id I've heard it all now
Well, that and attempting to buy human tissue.

That's like charging an underage drnker on a sting operation for trying to buy a six pak

Whitey, im just going to go ahead and take this rare opportunity to completely agree with you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 30, 2016, 10:22:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 29, 2016, 05:32:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
felony charges for fake id I've heard it all now
Well, that and attempting to buy human tissue.
the ones willing to sell are fine ? Or was there a sting operation on the attempted sting

No one was willing to sell. The whole operation was a "sting", as you say, to get them to admit that. It failed. The tissue is donated for research and costs recouped. All legal.

One can argue that NO such tissue should be donated and that it SHOULD be illegal. That is fine if that's your opinion.

However, its beside the point. The attempt here was to show that PP was selling embryonic and foetal tissue at a profit, which is illegal. Mutiple congressional and state level investigations to date, all driven by the GOP, have revealed nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 30, 2016, 10:32:37 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2016, 05:46:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 29, 2016, 05:32:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
felony charges for fake id I've heard it all now
Well, that and attempting to buy human tissue.

That's like charging an underage drnker on a sting operation for trying to buy a six pak

Maybe, but a legitimate sting operation will eventually fold it's tents and end the operation when there is nothing incriminating being uncovered, not just go ahead anyway and try to illegitimately ruin the personal reputations of employees and PP and make slanderous accusations of criminality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 30, 2016, 04:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2016, 10:22:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 29, 2016, 05:32:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
felony charges for fake id I've heard it all now
Well, that and attempting to buy human tissue.
the ones willing to sell are fine ? Or was there a sting operation on the attempted sting

No one was willing to sell. The whole operation was a "sting", as you say, to get them to admit that. It failed. The tissue is donated for research and costs recouped. All legal.

One can argue that NO such tissue should be donated and that it SHOULD be illegal. That is fine if that's your opinion.

However, its beside the point. The attempt here was to show that PP was selling embryonic and foetal tissue at a profit, which is illegal. Mutiple congressional and state level investigations to date, all driven by the GOP, have revealed nothing of the sort.
donations for tissue which have no $ limits and they do not have to declare on tax forms what they received for said tissue a situation where the highest bidder would win ? Why all the secrecy if everything is above board
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 30, 2016, 04:50:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 30, 2016, 04:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2016, 10:22:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 29, 2016, 05:32:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
felony charges for fake id I've heard it all now
Well, that and attempting to buy human tissue.
the ones willing to sell are fine ? Or was there a sting operation on the attempted sting

No one was willing to sell. The whole operation was a "sting", as you say, to get them to admit that. It failed. The tissue is donated for research and costs recouped. All legal.

One can argue that NO such tissue should be donated and that it SHOULD be illegal. That is fine if that's your opinion.

However, its beside the point. The attempt here was to show that PP was selling embryonic and foetal tissue at a profit, which is illegal. Mutiple congressional and state level investigations to date, all driven by the GOP, have revealed nothing of the sort.
donations for tissue which have no $ limits and they do not have to declare on tax forms what they received for said tissue a situation where the highest bidder would win ? Why all the secrecy if everything is above board

Is there evidence that bidding wars occur, that labs are pitted against each other?

In fact, is there ANY evidence at all that anything illegal is taking place?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 12:36:08 AM
Antonin Scalia, the hateful, bigoted, racist, misogynist glutton of the Supreme Court, is finally on his way underground to the hell he so richly deserves. Now that the horrible sh1t of a man is gone, the stage is now set for the biggest conservative meltdown in living memory.

The President has a constitutional right to appoint a replacement, now watch as the conservative idiots in the senate try to argue that he does not, despite what the constitution says in black and white. Watch as they try to block his replacement. Watch as they try to run out the clock. The longest it has taken to appoint anyone to the court has been about 120 days. Obama has over 300 left in his term.

If they succeed, it will cause even more damage to the Republican brand right slap bang in the middle of a presidential election. President Hillary will then probably appoint Obama to the court.

If they don't, Obama will appoint a left-of-centre justice.

Either way, this is another nail in the coffin of the hateful ideology of fascism that has overtaken the GOP. The political pendulum in America is already on its way back to the left, this only confirms it. And it's about bloody time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 14, 2016, 12:44:19 AM
The Republicans have already said that they will block any nomination this year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 14, 2016, 12:49:46 AM
Not that simple Dec
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 14, 2016, 01:08:42 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 14, 2016, 12:49:46 AM
Not that simple Dec

They have a majority in the Senate and on the Judiciary commitee. They certainly have the tools available to them if they want to block it. McConnell , the Senate majority leader is aleady saying that they should wait a year before replacing him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 14, 2016, 02:51:21 AM
Not to mention the republican candidates. About a 64% likelihood of a democrat president next time around. obama could actually end up with 2 nominations. Or Hilary could. Go ahead Republicans, your call...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 03:12:25 AM
If the repubs were smart (the biggest 'if' in the history of ifdom) they'd get this over with as quickly as possible, accept the kind of moderate left-of-center candidate Obama would nominate, and concentrate on the election. But knowing them, they'll drag this out and continue with the self-destruct course they've been on for ages.  Either way, there is no positive outcome for them.

Oh sweet Jesus this could not be better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 14, 2016, 03:34:16 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 03:12:25 AM
If the repubs were smart (the biggest 'if' in the history of ifdom) they'd get this over with as quickly as possible, accept the kind of moderate left-of-center candidate Obama would nominate, and concentrate on the election. But knowing them, they'll drag this out and continue with the self-destruct course they've been on for ages.  Either way, there is no positive outcome for them.


Sure there is.  Republicans control both houses.  All they need to do is drag everything out as long as they can, block everything, and have President Cruz appoint an evangelical, or Trump appoint a egomaniacal. 

Seriously, what's the downside for Republicans here with obstructionism? Hilary appoints a moderate liberal?  How is that worse for them than Obama appointing his choice? At least this way, they have a shot at it being their candidate that does the appointing. 

Frankly I"m worried about this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 04:33:08 AM
The voters are stupid, but they're not that stupid. If the repubs drag this out with their obstructionism, it'll alienate every moderate swing voter to the point where they might as well just tell Hillary to book the U-Haul now and pack her things up to move into the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 07:46:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 12:36:08 AM
Antonin Scalia, the hateful, bigoted, racist, misogynist glutton of the Supreme Court, is finally on his way underground to the hell he so richly deserves. Now that the horrible sh1t of a man is gone, the stage is now set for the biggest conservative meltdown in living memory.

The President has a constitutional right to appoint a replacement, now watch as the conservative idiots in the senate try to argue that he does not, despite what the constitution says in black and white. Watch as they try to block his replacement. Watch as they try to run out the clock. The longest it has taken to appoint anyone to the court has been about 120 days. Obama has over 300 left in his term.

If they succeed, it will cause even more damage to the Republican brand right slap bang in the middle of a presidential election. President Hillary will then probably appoint Obama to the court.

If they don't, Obama will appoint a left-of-centre justice.

Either way, this is another nail in the coffin of the hateful ideology of fascism that has overtaken the GOP. The political pendulum in America is already on its way back to the left, this only confirms it. And it's about bloody time.
The GOP is lost.  Trump is the proof. The right wing tea party faction are like a parasite. They can't deliver a majority. Decent politicians live in fear of being labelled a RINO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2016, 06:12:06 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 14, 2016, 03:34:16 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 03:12:25 AM
If the repubs were smart (the biggest 'if' in the history of ifdom) they'd get this over with as quickly as possible, accept the kind of moderate left-of-center candidate Obama would nominate, and concentrate on the election. But knowing them, they'll drag this out and continue with the self-destruct course they've been on for ages.  Either way, there is no positive outcome for them.


Sure there is.  Republicans control both houses.  All they need to do is drag everything out as long as they can, block everything, and have President Cruz appoint an evangelical, or Trump appoint a egomaniacal. 

Seriously, what's the downside for Republicans here with obstructionism? Hilary appoints a moderate liberal?  How is that worse for them than Obama appointing his choice? At least this way, they have a shot at it being their candidate that does the appointing. 

Frankly I"m worried about this.

Fair points, but Obama should be able to make hay with this and help get the vote out and win independents again. And remember, the Republicans are the ones defending a rake of Senate seats this year. They could easily lose control of the Senate, and this issue could help.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 07:48:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 07:46:37 AM
The GOP is lost.  Trump is the proof. The right wing tea party faction are like a parasite. They can't deliver a majority. Decent politicians live in fear of being labelled a RINO.

Did you see the "debate"/shouting match the other night? Trump, who is now tacking back to the left from whence he came, stated the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Audience reaction? They booed him. If there's one thing republican voters hate it's reality-based politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 08:41:54 PM
http://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 14, 2016, 10:38:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 07:48:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 07:46:37 AM
The GOP is lost.  Trump is the proof. The right wing tea party faction are like a parasite. They can't deliver a majority. Decent politicians live in fear of being labelled a RINO.

Did you see the "debate"/shouting match the other night? Trump, who is now tacking back to the left from whence he came, stated the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Audience reaction? They booed him. If there's one thing republican voters hate it's reality-based politics.

On Thursday night Clinton and Sanders debated issues like adults.

On Saturday night the Republicans shouted and called each other liars.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 10:58:22 PM
Quote from: dec on February 14, 2016, 10:38:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 07:48:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 07:46:37 AM
The GOP is lost.  Trump is the proof. The right wing tea party faction are like a parasite. They can't deliver a majority. Decent politicians live in fear of being labelled a RINO.

Did you see the "debate"/shouting match the other night? Trump, who is now tacking back to the left from whence he came, stated the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Audience reaction? They booed him. If there's one thing republican voters hate it's reality-based politics.

On Thursday night Clinton and Sanders debated issues like adults.

On Saturday night the Republicans shouted and called each other liars.
Just compare the Trump NH speech to the Sanders one. Sanders uses long words. Trump doesn't.
The GOP thing with Republicans in name only is nuts. I heard Lynsey Graham termed a RINO. It's like a cult.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 14, 2016, 11:52:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 10:58:22 PM
Quote from: dec on February 14, 2016, 10:38:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2016, 07:48:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 07:46:37 AM
The GOP is lost.  Trump is the proof. The right wing tea party faction are like a parasite. They can't deliver a majority. Decent politicians live in fear of being labelled a RINO.

Did you see the "debate"/shouting match the other night? Trump, who is now tacking back to the left from whence he came, stated the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Audience reaction? They booed him. If there's one thing republican voters hate it's reality-based politics.

On Thursday night Clinton and Sanders debated issues like adults.

On Saturday night the Republicans shouted and called each other liars.
Just compare the Trump NH speech to the Sanders one. Sanders uses long words. Trump doesn't.
The GOP thing with Republicans in name only is nuts. I heard Lynsey Graham termed a RINO. It's like a cult.

Sanders mentioned Mossadegh in the Democratic debate. How many of the Republican candidates even know who he is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 11:58:20 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/02/10/after-new-hampshire-collapsing-center/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2016, 12:55:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 11:58:20 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/02/10/after-new-hampshire-collapsing-center/
ii

I ran into some hardcore Hillary supporters over lunch yesterday and asked them what they thought of the primaries......were "very worried" was their response......worried about both Bernies' rise and about the prospect of Trump or Cruz being president


I didnt have the heart to tell them that as an Independent , I had already pulled a Democratic ballot and voted for Bernie under the (possibly misguided) rationale that the Republicans would have a better chance of beating him than Hillary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2016, 03:13:14 AM
(http://boingboing.net/ttdb/20110216/comic.jpg/1025cb%20scalia%20-%20originalism.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2016, 08:37:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2016, 12:55:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2016, 11:58:20 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/02/10/after-new-hampshire-collapsing-center/
ii

I ran into some hardcore Hillary supporters over lunch yesterday and asked them what they thought of the primaries......were "very worried" was their response......worried about both Bernies' rise and about the prospect of Trump or Cruz being president


I didnt have the heart to tell them that as an Independent , I had already pulled a Democratic ballot and voted for Bernie under the (possibly misguided) rationale that the Republicans would have a better chance of beating him than Hillary
The Clintons are greedy. Since 2001  they have earned $153 m. Hillary is not going to make it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2016, 07:35:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2016, 03:13:14 AM
(http://http:/%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E/boingboing.net/ttdb/20110216/comic.jpg/1025cb%20scalia%20-%20originalism.jpg)

The man is among the top jurists in the history of the USA you abomination, have some class, the man is not dead yet and you are foaming at the mouth to get at him.


The man is ten times the jurist Thomas will ever be you libtard dolt.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2016, 08:07:23 PM
I see Cuntin has has more classified emails out there that were classified, come on sheep, defend this cow and show your absolute lack of class and moral compass, feel the bern boys, your hired ho is going to jail (hopefully)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 15, 2016, 08:23:15 PM
Put the plug back in the jug for one night ffs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Stew, getting riled up about a candidate is part and parcel of paying attention to election year drama, but calling Clinton "Cuntin" and a "ho" doesn't bolster your position.  I'm not a huge Hillary Clinton fan, but when I consider what I believe to be Sanders' unelectability and the array of conservative candidates, all of whom would deepen the rich-poor chasm in American society and strip away the qualities that comprise a decent and moral society, I feel obliged to vote for her, or whatever Democratic candidate opposes whatever right-wing wrestler emerges from their current cage match.

This election is too important.  A couple of days ago, I argued with a friend that more important than the president was the Supreme Court nominees he or she put forward, and then Scalia died, making the election decision even more crucial.

By the way, I do think that the cartoon Eamonn posted hit the nail square on the head.  With Thomas, Scalia was an originalist in interpreting the Constitution, one who believed what Rubio said in the recent debate that "The Constitution is not a living, breathing document. It is to be interpreted as originally meant."  Eamonn's cartoon underscores the absurdity of that position.

With Armagh falling faster than Ben Carson's popularity, the election cycle over the next few months coupled with the brouhaha over Obama's nomination of a new justice will make for exciting and vital times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2016, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Stew, getting riled up about a candidate is part and parcel of paying attention to election year drama, but calling Clinton "Cuntin" and a "ho" doesn't bolster your position.  I'm not a huge Hillary Clinton fan, but when I consider what I believe to be Sanders' unelectability and the array of conservative candidates, all of whom would deepen the rich-poor chasm in American society and strip away the qualities that comprise a decent and moral society, I feel obliged to vote for her, or whatever Democratic candidate opposes whatever right-wing wrestler emerges from their current cage match.

This election is too important.  A couple of days ago, I argued with a friend that more important than the president was the Supreme Court nominees he or she put forward, and then Scalia died, making the election decision even more crucial.

By the way, I do think that the cartoon Eamonn posted hit the nail square on the head.  With Thomas, Scalia was an originalist in interpreting the Constitution, one who believed what Rubio said in the recent debate that "The Constitution is not a living, breathing document. It is to be interpreted as originally meant."  Eamonn's cartoon underscores the absurdity of that position.

With Armagh falling faster than Ben Carson's popularity, the election cycle over the next few months coupled with the brouhaha over Obama's nomination of a new justice will make for exciting and vital times.

A supreme judge just died and you were front and centre picking his bones before he was cold, you speak like you would consider voting for a decent conservative yet you know Clinton could run against trump, a bigger liberal than she could ever be and you would vote for killory.

As for gallswan, it's Tuesday ffs, no beer taken here, just pure loathing for a political whore who stands for nothing, who has had people killed and who has nothing but contempt for the women her husband took advantage of whilst in office, vote Clinton gallsman, you are a match made in Hades you horrible b**tard ye.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on February 15, 2016, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Stew, getting riled up about a candidate is part and parcel of paying attention to election year drama, but calling Clinton "Cuntin" and a "ho" doesn't bolster your position.  I'm not a huge Hillary Clinton fan, but when I consider what I believe to be Sanders' unelectability and the array of conservative candidates, all of whom would deepen the rich-poor chasm in American society and strip away the qualities that comprise a decent and moral society, I feel obliged to vote for her, or whatever Democratic candidate opposes whatever right-wing wrestler emerges from their current cage match.

This election is too important.  A couple of days ago, I argued with a friend that more important than the president was the Supreme Court nominees he or she put forward, and then Scalia died, making the election decision even more crucial.

By the way, I do think that the cartoon Eamonn posted hit the nail square on the head.  With Thomas, Scalia was an originalist in interpreting the Constitution, one who believed what Rubio said in the recent debate that "The Constitution is not a living, breathing document. It is to be interpreted as originally meant."  Eamonn's cartoon underscores the absurdity of that position.

With Armagh falling faster than Ben Carson's popularity, the election cycle over the next few months coupled with the brouhaha over Obama's nomination of a new justice will make for exciting and vital times.

A supreme judge just died and you were front and centre picking his bones before he was cold, you speak like you would consider voting for a decent conservative yet you know Clinton could run against trump, a bigger library than she could ever be and you would vote for killory.

As for gallswan, it's Tuesday ffs, no beer taken here, just pure loathing for a political whore who stands for nothing, who has had people killed and who has nothing but contempt for the women her husband took advantage of whilst in office, vote Clinton gallsman, you are a match made in Hades you horrible b**tard ye.

You've problems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:00:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 15, 2016, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Stew, getting riled up about a candidate is part and parcel of paying attention to election year drama, but calling Clinton "Cuntin" and a "ho" doesn't bolster your position.  I'm not a huge Hillary Clinton fan, but when I consider what I believe to be Sanders' unelectability and the array of conservative candidates, all of whom would deepen the rich-poor chasm in American society and strip away the qualities that comprise a decent and moral society, I feel obliged to vote for her, or whatever Democratic candidate opposes whatever right-wing wrestler emerges from their current cage match.

This election is too important.  A couple of days ago, I argued with a friend that more important than the president was the Supreme Court nominees he or she put forward, and then Scalia died, making the election decision even more crucial.

By the way, I do think that the cartoon Eamonn posted hit the nail square on the head.  With Thomas, Scalia was an originalist in interpreting the Constitution, one who believed what Rubio said in the recent debate that "The Constitution is not a living, breathing document. It is to be interpreted as originally meant."  Eamonn's cartoon underscores the absurdity of that position.

With Armagh falling faster than Ben Carson's popularity, the election cycle over the next few months coupled with the brouhaha over Obama's nomination of a new justice will make for exciting and vital times.

A supreme judge just died and you were front and centre picking his bones before he was cold, you speak like you would consider voting for a decent conservative yet you know Clinton could run against trump, a bigger library than she could ever be and you would vote for killory.

As for gallswan, it's Tuesday ffs, no beer taken here, just pure loathing for a political whore who stands for nothing, who has had people killed and who has nothing but contempt for the women her husband took advantage of whilst in office, vote Clinton gallsman, you are a match made in Hades you horrible b**tard ye.

You've problems.

And you have the morals of a rodent!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 15, 2016, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 15, 2016, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Stew, getting riled up about a candidate is part and parcel of paying attention to election year drama, but calling Clinton "Cuntin" and a "ho" doesn't bolster your position.  I'm not a huge Hillary Clinton fan, but when I consider what I believe to be Sanders' unelectability and the array of conservative candidates, all of whom would deepen the rich-poor chasm in American society and strip away the qualities that comprise a decent and moral society, I feel obliged to vote for her, or whatever Democratic candidate opposes whatever right-wing wrestler emerges from their current cage match.

This election is too important.  A couple of days ago, I argued with a friend that more important than the president was the Supreme Court nominees he or she put forward, and then Scalia died, making the election decision even more crucial.

By the way, I do think that the cartoon Eamonn posted hit the nail square on the head.  With Thomas, Scalia was an originalist in interpreting the Constitution, one who believed what Rubio said in the recent debate that "The Constitution is not a living, breathing document. It is to be interpreted as originally meant."  Eamonn's cartoon underscores the absurdity of that position.

With Armagh falling faster than Ben Carson's popularity, the election cycle over the next few months coupled with the brouhaha over Obama's nomination of a new justice will make for exciting and vital times.

A supreme judge just died and you were front and centre picking his bones before he was cold, you speak like you would consider voting for a decent conservative yet you know Clinton could run against trump, a bigger library than she could ever be and you would vote for killory.

As for gallswan, it's Tuesday ffs, no beer taken here, just pure loathing for a political whore who stands for nothing, who has had people killed and who has nothing but contempt for the women her husband took advantage of whilst in office, vote Clinton gallsman, you are a match made in Hades you horrible b**tard ye.

You've problems.

+1,
And he doesn't know what day of the week it is :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Stew, getting riled up about a candidate is part and parcel of paying attention to election year drama, but calling Clinton "Cuntin" and a "ho" doesn't bolster your position.  I'm not a huge Hillary Clinton fan, but when I consider what I believe to be Sanders' unelectability and the array of conservative candidates, all of whom would deepen the rich-poor chasm in American society and strip away the qualities that comprise a decent and moral society, I feel obliged to vote for her, or whatever Democratic candidate opposes whatever right-wing wrestler emerges from their current cage match.

This election is too important.  A couple of days ago, I argued with a friend that more important than the president was the Supreme Court nominees he or she put forward, and then Scalia died, making the election decision even more crucial.

By the way, I do think that the cartoon Eamonn posted hit the nail square on the head.  With Thomas, Scalia was an originalist in interpreting the Constitution, one who believed what Rubio said in the recent debate that "The Constitution is not a living, breathing document. It is to be interpreted as originally meant."  Eamonn's cartoon underscores the absurdity of that position.

With Armagh falling faster than Ben Carson's popularity, the election cycle over the next few months coupled with the brouhaha over Obama's nomination of a new justice will make for exciting and vital times.

Do you have a vote or is your vote locked into your union?

You and I have had our day in the sun but I have to say orais, you are simply a clone, a clone of the left just like gallstone, wee Eamonn, trileachbeatch and the other libtards who see the world as liberal good conservative bad, I have zero use for any of you simply because your thinking is ignorant, obtuse and dangerous, you are right when you say the next election is important, no more so than any other election however.

Sanders is a real threat to killory, the youth of this country live him, bless their uninformed, ignorant hearts, that said, if he actually had a spine he would realize he could beat that skank clinton, but that is not in the script, well played loony left, trump is a liberal plant designed to split the conservative vote, job done but I would absolutely laugh my arise off of the bern actually beat skankory despite his trying to lose, it could happen, bottom line, I will not be here to see it, I will not spend one minute under democrat rule, eight years is enough for this kid, the democrats are an abomination, a blight on this country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 11:17:49 PM
Stew, I don't think I was picking anyone's bones, but I'm not exactly heartbroken given his judicial decisions.  If I thought his family we're regulars on this board I would probably temper my remarks.

Sorry, too, that I gave the impression that I would vote for a conservative.  Not a chance of that happening. Better chance of the Browns winning Super Bowl LI (and, given this field, I'd love to know what a decent conservative is).

Can't wait for the Senate to drag its heels when Obama nominates a new justice,  as is his constitutional duty.  They do love the Constitution.

Hope you're not freezing in the Great White North.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:23:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 15, 2016, 08:23:15 PM
Put the plug back in the jug for one night ffs.


Drinking tea buddy, Barry's,  tis good.

Keep smoking the liberal hippy. Lettuce you stand for nothing bag of crap.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:25:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 15, 2016, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 15, 2016, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Stew, getting riled up about a candidate is part and parcel of paying attention to election year drama, but calling Clinton "Cuntin" and a "ho" doesn't bolster your position.  I'm not a huge Hillary Clinton fan, but when I consider what I believe to be Sanders' unelectability and the array of conservative candidates, all of whom would deepen the rich-poor chasm in American society and strip away the qualities that comprise a decent and moral society, I feel obliged to vote for her, or whatever Democratic candidate opposes whatever right-wing wrestler emerges from their current cage match.

This election is too important.  A couple of days ago, I argued with a friend that more important than the president was the Supreme Court nominees he or she put forward, and then Scalia died, making the election decision even more crucial.

By the way, I do think that the cartoon Eamonn posted hit the nail square on the head.  With Thomas, Scalia was an originalist in interpreting the Constitution, one who believed what Rubio said in the recent debate that "The Constitution is not a living, breathing document. It is to be interpreted as originally meant."  Eamonn's cartoon underscores the absurdity of that position.

With Armagh falling faster than Ben Carson's popularity, the election cycle over the next few months coupled with the brouhaha over Obama's nomination of a new justice will make for exciting and vital times.

A supreme judge just died and you were front and centre picking his bones before he was cold, you speak like you would consider voting for a decent conservative yet you know Clinton could run against trump, a bigger library than she could ever be and you would vote for killory.

As for gallswan, it's Tuesday ffs, no beer taken here, just pure loathing for a political whore who stands for nothing, who has had people killed and who has nothing but contempt for the women her husband took advantage of whilst in office, vote Clinton gallsman, you are a match made in Hades you horrible b**tard ye.

You've problems.

+1,
And he doesn't know what day of the week it is :-\

That would depend what country ye were in no would it not?

Gotcha clampett. )

I am currently traveling, in a half hour I will be back in yet another time zone, you libtards are so one dimensional.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 11:17:49 PM
Stew, I don't think I was picking anyone's bones, but I'm not exactly heartbroken given his judicial decisions.  If I thought his family we're regulars on this board I would probably temper my remarks.

Sorry, too, that I gave the impression that I would vote for a conservative.  Not a chance of that happening. Better chance of the Browns winning Super Bowl LI (and, given this field, I'd love to know what a decent conservative is).

Can't wait for the Senate to drag its heels when Obama nominates a new justice,  as is his constitutional duty.  They do love the Constitution.

Hope you're not freezing in the Great White North.

He is w**king himself to throw a lib would be nominee under the bus, tell the truth, when was the last time a supreme court judge got elected when a sitting president had ten months left to f**k up the country? A hundred maybe?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 15, 2016, 11:42:43 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 11:17:49 PM
Stew, I don't think I was picking anyone's bones, but I'm not exactly heartbroken given his judicial decisions.  If I thought his family we're regulars on this board I would probably temper my remarks.

Sorry, too, that I gave the impression that I would vote for a conservative.  Not a chance of that happening. Better chance of the Browns winning Super Bowl LI (and, given this field, I'd love to know what a decent conservative is).

Can't wait for the Senate to drag its heels when Obama nominates a new justice,  as is his constitutional duty.  They do love the Constitution.

Hope you're not freezing in the Great White North.

He is w**king himself to throw a lib would be nominee under the bus, tell the truth, when was the last time a supreme court judge got elected when a sitting president had ten months left to f**k up the country? A hundred maybe?

President Ronald Reagan appointed Justice Anthony Kennedy on Feb. 8, 1988.

The only thing that goes back over a hundred years, is a year long vacancy. And who is demanding that?

Karma is a bitch.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 11:44:52 PM
Stew, he's got a quarter of his elected term left.  He's not a lame duck president. If you think he shouldn't nominate a successor with eleven months left, when exactly is the cut-off line? Twelve months, twenty-four, of forty-eight.  And I don't think he'll nominate a liberal justice.  Instead, I think he'll opt for a moderate, one whom the Senate voted for almost unanimously a couple of years ago for an appellate court seat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:46:26 PM
Obamination is shitting himself to fulfill this position, you libtards need to study your history, just like you did not do when you all gave Avery a pass. I love the way you Avery lovers kept up the good fight, liberal conviction is a sight to behold, Reuben carter anyone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 15, 2016, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 07:35:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2016, 03:13:14 AM
(http://http:/%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E/boingboing.net/ttdb/20110216/comic.jpg/1025cb%20scalia%20-%20originalism.jpg)

The man is among the top jurists in the history of the USA you abomination, have some class, the man is not dead yet and you are foaming at the mouth to get at him.


The man is ten times the jurist Thomas will ever be you libtard dolt.

From the man who uses the sickening "libtard" and calls a woman he he has never met a **** I would love to know what your version of class looks like.

Settle the f**king head it sounds like you're about to do yourself an injury with all that hate you have built up! You could do with moving back home to chill the f**k out!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 16, 2016, 12:01:38 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 15, 2016, 11:38:06 PM
Where are you headed if Democrats win, stew?

If killory wins and is not in jail i will be in Europe, if Sanders wins I will be in a country that is completely PC, like the vatican, Switzerland or the republic.

If Trump wins we are all fucked so it does not matter really where I am at.

Hope that answers your question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:05:13 AM
If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would be doing exactly the same


Come to think of it.....they did when Bush was coming towards the end of his term

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/14/flashback-in-2007-schumer-called-for-blocking-all-bush-supreme-court-nominations/



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 16, 2016, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:05:13 AM
If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would be doing exactly the same


Come to think of it.....they did when Bush was coming towards the end of his term

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/14/flashback-in-2007-schumer-called-for-blocking-all-bush-supreme-court-nominations/

That's all well and good but you're actively trying to get Cruz or Trump elected  . . . really think about what that means!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 16, 2016, 12:28:08 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 15, 2016, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 07:35:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2016, 03:13:14 AM
(http://http:/%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E/boingboing.net/ttdb/20110216/comic.jpg/1025cb%20scalia%20-%20originalism.jpg)

The man is among the top jurists in the history of the USA you abomination, have some class, the man is not dead yet and you are foaming at the mouth to get at him.


The man is ten times the jurist Thomas will ever be you libtard dolt.

From the man who uses the sickening "libtard" and calls a woman he he has never met a **** I would love to know what your version of class looks like.

Settle the f**king head it sounds like you're about to do yourself an injury with all that hate you have built up! You could do with moving back home to chill the f**k out!!!

The next time a single liberal arsewipe on here shows some class will be the first time, why should I, cuntin talks about this yet she has had yanks killed and has the sheep fawning over her so she can beat the big bad conservatives, you people sicken my shite, some of you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:29:13 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2016, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:05:13 AM
If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would be doing exactly the same


Come to think of it.....they did when Bush was coming towards the end of his term

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/14/flashback-in-2007-schumer-called-for-blocking-all-bush-supreme-court-nominations/

That's all well and good but you're actively trying to get Cruz or Trump elected  . . . really think about what that means!!

I'd be more of a Christie or Kasich supporter, but I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2016, 12:33:36 AM
US political discourse is even lower brow than our own, and that is really saying something.

Any halfwit can see that Obama can, at the very least, make nominations as he sees fit. And he will. Anyone 'outraged' over him doing his job, the same as Reagan did his, or any other President did in the past, or will do again in the future, needs to look at themselves.

Senior politicians being outraged about it, no matter which of the political asylums they come from, should be charged with sedition.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2016, 12:53:47 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2016, 12:33:36 AM
US political discourse is even lower brow than our own, and that is really saying something.

Any halfwit can see that Obama can, at the very least, make nominations as he sees fit. And he will. Anyone 'outraged' over him doing his job, the same as Reagan did his, or any other President did in the past, or will do again in the future, needs to look at themselves.

Senior politicians being outraged about it, no matter which of the political asylums they come from, should be charged with sedition.
Nice to see you back, Muppet

US political discourse is dreadful

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/05/24/how-republicans-got-way/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:16:42 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Stew, getting riled up about a candidate is part and parcel of paying attention to election year drama, but calling Clinton "Cuntin" and a "ho" doesn't bolster your position.  I'm not a huge Hillary Clinton fan, but when I consider what I believe to be Sanders' unelectability and the array of conservative candidates, all of whom would deepen the rich-poor chasm in American society and strip away the qualities that comprise a decent and moral society, I feel obliged to vote for her, or whatever Democratic candidate opposes whatever right-wing wrestler emerges from their current cage match.

This election is too important.  A couple of days ago, I argued with a friend that more important than the president was the Supreme Court nominees he or she put forward, and then Scalia died, making the election decision even more crucial.

By the way, I do think that the cartoon Eamonn posted hit the nail square on the head.  With Thomas, Scalia was an originalist in interpreting the Constitution, one who believed what Rubio said in the recent debate that "The Constitution is not a living, breathing document. It is to be interpreted as originally meant."  Eamonn's cartoon underscores the absurdity of that position.

With Armagh falling faster than Ben Carson's popularity, the election cycle over the next few months coupled with the brouhaha over Obama's nomination of a new justice will make for exciting and vital times.

A supreme judge just died and you were front and centre picking his bones before he was cold, you speak like you would consider voting for a decent conservative yet you know Clinton could run against trump, a bigger liberal than she could ever be and you would vote for killory.

As for gallswan, it's Tuesday ffs, no beer taken here, just pure loathing for a political whore who stands for nothing, who has had people killed and who has nothing but contempt for the women her husband took advantage of whilst in office, vote Clinton gallsman, you are a match made in Hades you horrible b**tard ye.

Spare us the sanctimony and fake outrage FFS. As if anything said here is remotely of interest to the family of Antonin Scalia! Besides, Mitch McConnell didn't wait even an hour before declaring any attempt to appoint a successor DOA. And he was not the only one to instantly politicize it. And thus make such talk newsworthy.

As for the rest of your rant - "had people killed" - get some help stew. You're making a show of yourself with the deranged right wing conspiracy shite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:25:03 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 11:17:49 PM
Stew, I don't think I was picking anyone's bones, but I'm not exactly heartbroken given his judicial decisions.  If I thought his family we're regulars on this board I would probably temper my remarks.

Sorry, too, that I gave the impression that I would vote for a conservative.  Not a chance of that happening. Better chance of the Browns winning Super Bowl LI (and, given this field, I'd love to know what a decent conservative is).

Can't wait for the Senate to drag its heels when Obama nominates a new justice,  as is his constitutional duty.  They do love the Constitution.

Hope you're not freezing in the Great White North.

He is w**king himself to throw a lib would be nominee under the bus, tell the truth, when was the last time a supreme court judge got elected when a sitting president had ten months left to f**k up the country? A hundred maybe?

So is his term only really seven years then? Are the rest of his duties to be similarly curtailed in his last year?

How about the Senate? Shouldn't those 24 GOP senators whose terms are winding down be similarly told to f**k off and forget about their duties, thus leaving their opinions on this issue irrelevant?

When was the last time the issue came up? Besides Reagan and Anthony Kennedy. And LBJ and his failed pick, who at least got a hearing.

As for "f**king up the country", things are a hell of a lot better than they were when he took over.

No thanks to the GOP.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:33:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:05:13 AM
If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would be doing exactly the same


Come to think of it.....they did when Bush was coming towards the end of his term

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/14/flashback-in-2007-schumer-called-for-blocking-all-bush-supreme-court-nominations/

We will never know if they would have followed through on Schumer's rhetoric.

What we do know is that never before have so many judicial, and other, appointments been blocked for naked, partisan political reasons, even before Scalia died. Why the hell would the Dems have otherwise have had to push through all those judges a couple of years back on a technicality to get around GOP obstructionism, even before they took the Senate back? And its only got worse since.

Well, the shoe will be on the other foot again, soon enough.

Vacant court seats, even at the supreme level, will become the norm, in both liberal and conservative circuits.

American politics is sick. All the way down to the grass roots.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:39:30 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2016, 12:33:36 AM
US political discourse is even lower brow than our own, and that is really saying something.

Any halfwit can see that Obama can, at the very least, make nominations as he sees fit. And he will. Anyone 'outraged' over him doing his job, the same as Reagan did his, or any other President did in the past, or will do again in the future, needs to look at themselves.

Senior politicians being outraged about it, no matter which of the political asylums they come from, should be charged with sedition.

And the same gobshites who are outraged that Obama might have the gall to do his job in this case never shut up whining about golf  vacations or his supposed repeated violations of the constitution.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 16, 2016, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:33:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:05:13 AM
If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would be doing exactly the same


Come to think of it.....they did when Bush was coming towards the end of his term

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/14/flashback-in-2007-schumer-called-for-blocking-all-bush-supreme-court-nominations/

We will never know if they would have followed through on Schumer's rhetoric.

What we do know is that never before have so many judicial, and other, appointments been blocked for naked, partisan political reasons, even before Scalia died. Why the hell would the Dems have otherwise have had to push through all those judges a couple of years back on a technicality to get around GOP obstructionism, even before they took the Senate back? And its only got worse since.

Well, the shoe will be on the other foot again, soon enough.

Vacant court seats, even at the supreme level, will become the norm, in both liberal and conservative circuits.

American politics is sick. All the way down to the grass roots.

lol-so when Demcrats proposed doing the same thing on W, it was just meaningless rhetoric??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2016, 02:34:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:33:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:05:13 AM
If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would be doing exactly the same


Come to think of it.....they did when Bush was coming towards the end of his term

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/14/flashback-in-2007-schumer-called-for-blocking-all-bush-supreme-court-nominations/

We will never know if they would have followed through on Schumer's rhetoric.

What we do know is that never before have so many judicial, and other, appointments been blocked for naked, partisan political reasons, even before Scalia died. Why the hell would the Dems have otherwise have had to push through all those judges a couple of years back on a technicality to get around GOP obstructionism, even before they took the Senate back? And its only got worse since.

Well, the shoe will be on the other foot again, soon enough.

Vacant court seats, even at the supreme level, will become the norm, in both liberal and conservative circuits.

American politics is sick. All the way down to the grass roots.

lol-so when Demcrats proposed doing the same thing on W, it was just meaningless rhetoric??

Where did I say it was meaningless?

I said we would never know if they would have followed up on it. Which is a fact.

But, taking them at their current word, the GOP will deny Obama's nominee a hearing.

Politicians make threats and play to their base all the time. Always have.

The difference here is that the GOP are promising, in a real life test of what is usually bullshit and sabre rattling and staking out a starting position, to make good on those threats.

But if you have any examples of where the Democrats have actually obstructed a GOP president to the degree that the Republicans have Obama over the last seven years, especially when it comes to political and judicial appointments, fire away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 16, 2016, 02:41:45 AM
rhet·o·ric
ˈredərik/
noun
the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.
synonyms:   oratory, eloquence, command of language, way with words
"a form of rhetoric"
language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.
"all we have from the opposition is empty rhetoric"
synonyms:   bombast, turgidity, grandiloquence, magniloquence, pomposity, extravagant language, purple prose; More

Your use of the word rhetoric alone implies an idle threat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2016, 03:02:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 02:41:45 AM
rhet·o·ric
ˈredərik/
noun
the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.
synonyms:   oratory, eloquence, command of language, way with words
"a form of rhetoric"
language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.
"all we have from the opposition is empty rhetoric"
synonyms:   bombast, turgidity, grandiloquence, magniloquence, pomposity, extravagant language, purple prose; More

Your use of the word rhetoric alone implies an idle threat

Really?

By your own post, that is one of several interpretations. And your example even has to include the word "empty" to illustrate that interpretation.

From OED: rhetoric, n. 1. a. The art of using language effectively so as to persuade or influence others, esp. the exploitation of figures of speech and other compositional techniques to this end; the study of principles and rules to be followed by a speaker or writer striving for eloquence, esp. as formulated by ancient Greek and Roman writers.

But fixate on a selected meaning if you want.

My point stands, and I'm pretty sure you understand what I meant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 16, 2016, 03:20:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:29:13 AM
I'd be more of a Christie or Kasich supporter, but I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count

Christie withdrew from the race last week.

Kasich-( is I think anyways) a dark horse in the Republican race. I don't believe that Cruz Rubio or Trump can win the nomination, and I think Bush is carrying too much family baggage.

The level of vitriol against Clinton is a sight to behold. I thought the Republicans were fired up against Obama, but this time around its a whole new ball game. Stew is seen here as very heavy handed with his remarks, but he is tame compared to some folks I was chatting to this weekend.

As a non voter resident alien in the US, the campaigns being waged in the press are interesting, but they have been more or less the same the last 3 presidential cycles, what you don't see is the campaign being fought in the social media.

The PACs are spending tens of millions of dollars in big data analysis, and the creation of "news" stories in some cases around their clients, but more usually the positioning of outrageously fake stories around the opposition. The campaigns candidates are waging against other nominees is a sight to behold. Some of the brightest techies are having money thrown at them by PACs for 6 month contracts.

And then there are the attack campaigns being fought against the two Democratic nominees by some of the Republican PACs, and let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait for the timing of the release of a bunch of "stories" against to a lesser extent Saunders, but the weaponry being drafted in the anti- Clinton campaign is absolutely frightening.

The social media campaigns have no need for truth, or factual representation of any kind, and they are enormously effective in swaying voters, they become incredibly localized and tailored very explicitly by locality and habit, Facebook and twitter feeds as influencers, very personalized. This summer and autumn/ fall you will see a lot of technology let loose that you have seen in (bad) movies and science fiction. It will be  social experiment for the ages, but my view (again) is that the funding on the Republican side will give them an edge in deployment, the question will be whether the Dems will have enough time/ resources to begin to dispel the effect.

The other issue that is very relevant, is that I think the Republicans need to be very, very careful about how they handle the Supreme Court nomination. If it is seen as going too far, they will further reduce the slim chance they have of an elephant in 1600 any time soon.

The interesting thing is that they do not have (as yet) any data from voters as to how far they can push the court issue, however the polling and Facebook and twitter feeds are being crunched as we speak to start to find out just exactly what the lay of the land is. And just so you know, this forum gets crunched. And millions just like it. If there were enough american IPs on this board, that were in swing states, new members would be arriving, creating polls, ads would appear, and it would look like we got popular, but there wouldn't be a human in sight...

The rise of the machines. We often wondered about the lifting of the contribution caps, and just how much money in ads and campaigns could sway the vote, and til now it has been interesting, but the next 6 months, the application of all of that (not) hard earned (or taxed) money is about to change the shape of elections in the US.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dalquen on February 16, 2016, 05:25:18 AM
Its always amusing listening to Irish leftists getting all high and mighty about the so-called right wing of US, UK or European politics. Ireland is one of the most homogenous countries in Europe. The only time we have been confronted with some of the issues other countries face we have implemented ethnic cleansing (of protestants after independence) or banished a minority to the lowest socio-economic rung (travellers)..and yet you lads think its grand to lecture americans for resisting cultural changes that threaten their interests...or dismiss "extremists"  from the likes of Bradford that have seen their town transform into a suburb of Karachi in their lifetime.

You lads need to get real. Globalization and cultural warfare is relentless. What we have seen in the last 20 years is merely the elbow of an exponential curve of change. It will be interesting to see how Irish people react when they are confronted with real cultural change not the trickle of change we have seen up to this point.

Who knows someday in the not too far distant future the GAA may be seen as a "white" enclave that needs "cultural enrichment"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 16, 2016, 06:10:38 AM
Stew, please please please please please try to move to Switzerland and see what happens! I'll set up deckchairs on the border and get the popcorn ready.

How's that respect you have for women coming along? Sad little man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dalquen on February 16, 2016, 06:19:16 AM
Switzerland is a very impressive country. They have managed to protect their cultural identity while, for the most part, avoiding the opprobrium other countries have attracted for attempting the same thing. They even voted to ban minarets!!

They are the poster child for a country taking control of their own future. I think not being a member of the EU probably helps in this regard.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2016, 06:53:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 16, 2016, 03:20:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:29:13 AM
I'd be more of a Christie or Kasich supporter, but I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count

Christie withdrew from the race last week.

Kasich-( is I think anyways) a dark horse in the Republican race. I don't believe that Cruz Rubio or Trump can win the nomination, and I think Bush is carrying too much family baggage.

The level of vitriol against Clinton is a sight to behold. I thought the Republicans were fired up against Obama, but this time around its a whole new ball game. Stew is seen here as very heavy handed with his remarks, but he is tame compared to some folks I was chatting to this weekend.

As a non voter resident alien in the US, the campaigns being waged in the press are interesting, but they have been more or less the same the last 3 presidential cycles, what you don't see is the campaign being fought in the social media.

The PACs are spending tens of millions of dollars in big data analysis, and the creation of "news" stories in some cases around their clients, but more usually the positioning of outrageously fake stories around the opposition. The campaigns candidates are waging against other nominees is a sight to behold. Some of the brightest techies are having money thrown at them by PACs for 6 month contracts.

And then there are the attack campaigns being fought against the two Democratic nominees by some of the Republican PACs, and let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait for the timing of the release of a bunch of "stories" against to a lesser extent Saunders, but the weaponry being drafted in the anti- Clinton campaign is absolutely frightening.

The social media campaigns have no need for truth, or factual representation of any kind, and they are enormously effective in swaying voters, they become incredibly localized and tailored very explicitly by locality and habit, Facebook and twitter feeds as influencers, very personalized. This summer and autumn/ fall you will see a lot of technology let loose that you have seen in (bad) movies and science fiction. It will be  social experiment for the ages, but my view (again) is that the funding on the Republican side will give them an edge in deployment, the question will be whether the Dems will have enough time/ resources to begin to dispel the effect.

The other issue that is very relevant, is that I think the Republicans need to be very, very careful about how they handle the Supreme Court nomination. If it is seen as going too far, they will further reduce the slim chance they have of an elephant in 1600 any time soon.

The interesting thing is that they do not have (as yet) any data from voters as to how far they can push the court issue, however the polling and Facebook and twitter feeds are being crunched as we speak to start to find out just exactly what the lay of the land is. And just so you know, this forum gets crunched. And millions just like it. If there were enough american IPs on this board, that were in swing states, new members would be arriving, creating polls, ads would appear, and it would look like we got popular, but there wouldn't be a human in sight...

The rise of the machines. We often wondered about the lifting of the contribution caps, and just how much money in ads and campaigns could sway the vote, and til now it has been interesting, but the next 6 months, the application of all of that (not) hard earned (or taxed) money is about to change the shape of elections in the US.
Great post. Citizens United means GOP money is unlimited. But the economic situation means this election is limited. One third of Americans now work without permanent contracts. Average earnings $28 per hour which isn't much. Real wages are 10% lower than in the 70s. Wages are being driven down. Muintir Trump feel this and resent it. Trump plámáses them. Sanders talks about the big picture. Clinton is disadvantaged. Trump can't attract the 20% of floating voters. I just don't think the GOP can address the big issue of income inequality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dalquen on February 16, 2016, 07:17:29 AM
Stop the nonsense. America will never elect sanders for two reasons. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 16, 2016, 08:28:47 AM
QuoteThe social media campaigns have no need for truth, or factual representation of any kind, and they are enormously effective in swaying voters, they become incredibly localized and tailored very explicitly by locality and habit, Facebook and twitter feeds as influencers, very personalized

This is what Trump's National Spokesperson came out with recently

https://twitter.com/KatrinaPierson/status/246383643499577344 (https://twitter.com/KatrinaPierson/status/246383643499577344)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dalquen on February 16, 2016, 08:36:09 AM
Trump is primarily a counterweight to cultural forces such as "black lives matter" which is why he is gaining such traction. He will stumble eventually but it sets the stage for the general election. Clinton will have to do the right thing and accede to the majority position if she wants to get elected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 16, 2016, 09:08:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:25:03 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 11:17:49 PM
Stew, I don't think I was picking anyone's bones, but I'm not exactly heartbroken given his judicial decisions.  If I thought his family we're regulars on this board I would probably temper my remarks.

Sorry, too, that I gave the impression that I would vote for a conservative.  Not a chance of that happening. Better chance of the Browns winning Super Bowl LI (and, given this field, I'd love to know what a decent conservative is).

Can't wait for the Senate to drag its heels when Obama nominates a new justice,  as is his constitutional duty.  They do love the Constitution.

Hope you're not freezing in the Great White North.

He is w**king himself to throw a lib would be nominee under the bus, tell the truth, when was the last time a supreme court judge got elected when a sitting president had ten months left to f**k up the country? A hundred maybe?

So is his term only really seven years then? Are the rest of his duties to be similarly curtailed in his last year?

How about the Senate? Shouldn't those 24 GOP senators whose terms are winding down be similarly told to f**k off and forget about their duties, thus leaving their opinions on this issue irrelevant?

When was the last time the issue came up? Besides Reagan and Anthony Kennedy. And LBJ and his failed pick, who at least got a hearing.

As for "f**king up the country", things are a hell of a lot better than they were when he took over.

No thanks to the GOP.


Get off the drugs son, more people live below the poverty line than when he took office, Putin has him in his pocket and he us the main reason europe is flooded with Muslim refugees, some of whom are terrorists, worldwide he is seen as a weakling and to be he will go down as a disastrous president due to his inability to Govern, well in fairness, he did cut his teeth in the most corrupt liberal shithole in the USA, Illinois, he fit right in there.

The right need to get back in and kick these bleeding hrsrt, nsmby pamby liberal fuckwits to the curb and right the ship, eight mire years of a balloon like we have had under Obamination and the country is proper fucked.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 16, 2016, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:33:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:05:13 AM
If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would be doing exactly the same


Come to think of it.....they did when Bush was coming towards the end of his term

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/14/flashback-in-2007-schumer-called-for-blocking-all-bush-supreme-court-nominations/

We will never know if they would have followed through on Schumer's rhetoric.

What we do know is that never before have so many judicial, and other, appointments been blocked for naked, partisan political reasons, even before Scalia died. Why the hell would the Dems have otherwise have had to push through all those judges a couple of years back on a technicality to get around GOP obstructionism, even before they took the Senate back? And its only got worse since.

Well, the shoe will be on the other foot again, soon enough.

Vacant court seats, even at the supreme level, will become the norm, in both liberal and conservative circuits.

American politics is sick. All the way down to the grass roots.



lol-so when Demcrats proposed doing the same thing on W, it was just meaningless rhetoric??

Stop being smart whitey, they don't like it when you point out their hypocrisy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 16, 2016, 09:59:40 AM
Obama is the reason Europe is "flooded" with refugees... Wow. I know you struggle to grasp a lot of the stuff that goes on here, but that one was breathtaking.

Tell me more about how you'd move to Switzerland where, of course, you'd be such a wonderful cultural fit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 16, 2016, 11:43:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2016, 03:02:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 02:41:45 AM
rhet·o·ric
ˈredərik/
noun
the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.
synonyms:   oratory, eloquence, command of language, way with words
"a form of rhetoric"
language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.
"all we have from the opposition is empty rhetoric"
synonyms:   bombast, turgidity, grandiloquence, magniloquence, pomposity, extravagant language, purple prose; More

Your use of the word rhetoric alone implies an idle threat

Really?

By your own post, that is one of several interpretations. And your example even has to include the word "empty" to illustrate that interpretation.

From OED: rhetoric, n. 1. a. The art of using language effectively so as to persuade or influence others, esp. the exploitation of figures of speech and other compositional techniques to this end; the study of principles and rules to be followed by a speaker or writer striving for eloquence, esp. as formulated by ancient Greek and Roman writers.

But fixate on a selected meaning if you want.

My point stands, and I'm pretty sure you understand what I meant.

I understand exactly what you mean.....Republicans are bad and Democrats are good
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2016, 06:53:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 16, 2016, 03:20:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:29:13 AM
I'd be more of a Christie or Kasich supporter, but I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count

Christie withdrew from the race last week.

Kasich-( is I think anyways) a dark horse in the Republican race. I don't believe that Cruz Rubio or Trump can win the nomination, and I think Bush is carrying too much family baggage.

The level of vitriol against Clinton is a sight to behold. I thought the Republicans were fired up against Obama, but this time around its a whole new ball game. Stew is seen here as very heavy handed with his remarks, but he is tame compared to some folks I was chatting to this weekend.

As a non voter resident alien in the US, the campaigns being waged in the press are interesting, but they have been more or less the same the last 3 presidential cycles, what you don't see is the campaign being fought in the social media.

The PACs are spending tens of millions of dollars in big data analysis, and the creation of "news" stories in some cases around their clients, but more usually the positioning of outrageously fake stories around the opposition. The campaigns candidates are waging against other nominees is a sight to behold. Some of the brightest techies are having money thrown at them by PACs for 6 month contracts.

And then there are the attack campaigns being fought against the two Democratic nominees by some of the Republican PACs, and let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait for the timing of the release of a bunch of "stories" against to a lesser extent Saunders, but the weaponry being drafted in the anti- Clinton campaign is absolutely frightening.

The social media campaigns have no need for truth, or factual representation of any kind, and they are enormously effective in swaying voters, they become incredibly localized and tailored very explicitly by locality and habit, Facebook and twitter feeds as influencers, very personalized. This summer and autumn/ fall you will see a lot of technology let loose that you have seen in (bad) movies and science fiction. It will be  social experiment for the ages, but my view (again) is that the funding on the Republican side will give them an edge in deployment, the question will be whether the Dems will have enough time/ resources to begin to dispel the effect.

The other issue that is very relevant, is that I think the Republicans need to be very, very careful about how they handle the Supreme Court nomination. If it is seen as going too far, they will further reduce the slim chance they have of an elephant in 1600 any time soon.

The interesting thing is that they do not have (as yet) any data from voters as to how far they can push the court issue, however the polling and Facebook and twitter feeds are being crunched as we speak to start to find out just exactly what the lay of the land is. And just so you know, this forum gets crunched. And millions just like it. If there were enough american IPs on this board, that were in swing states, new members would be arriving, creating polls, ads would appear, and it would look like we got popular, but there wouldn't be a human in sight...

The rise of the machines. We often wondered about the lifting of the contribution caps, and just how much money in ads and campaigns could sway the vote, and til now it has been interesting, but the next 6 months, the application of all of that (not) hard earned (or taxed) money is about to change the shape of elections in the US.
Great post. Citizens United means GOP money is unlimited. But the economic situation means this election is limited. One third of Americans now work without permanent contracts. Average earnings $28 per hour which isn't much. Real wages are 10% lower than in the 70s. Wages are being driven down. Muintir Trump feel this and resent it. Trump plámáses them. Sanders talks about the big picture. Clinton is disadvantaged. Trump can't attract the 20% of floating voters. I just don't think the GOP can address the big issue of income inequality.


Hmmmmm........The old Citizens United line

No mention of the Billions and Billions Democrats get pumped in by the Unions. Citizens United merely leveled the playing field


http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/2012/07/10/if-big-money-in-politics-offends-you-then-you-must-loathe-labor-unions/#2bfa184049c1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 16, 2016, 12:52:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 16, 2016, 09:59:40 AM
Obama is the reason Europe is "flooded" with refugees... Wow. I know you struggle to grasp a lot of the stuff that goes on here, but that one was breathtaking.

Tell me more about how you'd move to Switzerland where, of course, you'd be such a wonderful cultural fit.

For a man who was so out of touch with American politics, ( think about trump self funding )it makes perfect sense that you cannot see that obamination  failed to take up the advice of his own Generals and have a safe haven for Syrians in their own country, under a no fly zone strictly enforced by the us military.

See Gallstone, if a Republican had have been in the white house not one Syrian would have left the country, no Paris attacks, no rapes and molestation on German women and other women in countries around the world.

Galls Russia has a leader called Putin, your hero Obama is afraid of this former kgb alleged rapist and that is why we have Muslims from all over the middle east converging on Europe, take your time son and let that info sink in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2016, 01:35:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2016, 06:53:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 16, 2016, 03:20:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:29:13 AM
I'd be more of a Christie or Kasich supporter, but I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count

Christie withdrew from the race last week.

Kasich-( is I think anyways) a dark horse in the Republican race. I don't believe that Cruz Rubio or Trump can win the nomination, and I think Bush is carrying too much family baggage.

The level of vitriol against Clinton is a sight to behold. I thought the Republicans were fired up against Obama, but this time around its a whole new ball game. Stew is seen here as very heavy handed with his remarks, but he is tame compared to some folks I was chatting to this weekend.

As a non voter resident alien in the US, the campaigns being waged in the press are interesting, but they have been more or less the same the last 3 presidential cycles, what you don't see is the campaign being fought in the social media.

The PACs are spending tens of millions of dollars in big data analysis, and the creation of "news" stories in some cases around their clients, but more usually the positioning of outrageously fake stories around the opposition. The campaigns candidates are waging against other nominees is a sight to behold. Some of the brightest techies are having money thrown at them by PACs for 6 month contracts.

And then there are the attack campaigns being fought against the two Democratic nominees by some of the Republican PACs, and let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait for the timing of the release of a bunch of "stories" against to a lesser extent Saunders, but the weaponry being drafted in the anti- Clinton campaign is absolutely frightening.

The social media campaigns have no need for truth, or factual representation of any kind, and they are enormously effective in swaying voters, they become incredibly localized and tailored very explicitly by locality and habit, Facebook and twitter feeds as influencers, very personalized. This summer and autumn/ fall you will see a lot of technology let loose that you have seen in (bad) movies and science fiction. It will be  social experiment for the ages, but my view (again) is that the funding on the Republican side will give them an edge in deployment, the question will be whether the Dems will have enough time/ resources to begin to dispel the effect.

The other issue that is very relevant, is that I think the Republicans need to be very, very careful about how they handle the Supreme Court nomination. If it is seen as going too far, they will further reduce the slim chance they have of an elephant in 1600 any time soon.

The interesting thing is that they do not have (as yet) any data from voters as to how far they can push the court issue, however the polling and Facebook and twitter feeds are being crunched as we speak to start to find out just exactly what the lay of the land is. And just so you know, this forum gets crunched. And millions just like it. If there were enough american IPs on this board, that were in swing states, new members would be arriving, creating polls, ads would appear, and it would look like we got popular, but there wouldn't be a human in sight...

The rise of the machines. We often wondered about the lifting of the contribution caps, and just how much money in ads and campaigns could sway the vote, and til now it has been interesting, but the next 6 months, the application of all of that (not) hard earned (or taxed) money is about to change the shape of elections in the US.
Great post. Citizens United means GOP money is unlimited. But the economic situation means this election is limited. One third of Americans now work without permanent contracts. Average earnings $28 per hour which isn't much. Real wages are 10% lower than in the 70s. Wages are being driven down. Muintir Trump feel this and resent it. Trump plámáses them. Sanders talks about the big picture. Clinton is disadvantaged. Trump can't attract the 20% of floating voters. I just don't think the GOP can address the big issue of income inequality.


Hmmmmm........The old Citizens United line

No mention of the Billions and Billions Democrats get pumped in by the Unions. Citizens United merely leveled the playing field


http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/2012/07/10/if-big-money-in-politics-offends-you-then-you-must-loathe-labor-unions/#2bfa184049c1
CU is deplorable in a democracy. Facilitated by Scalia of course. but it won't help the GOP this time around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 16, 2016, 02:09:18 PM
Do you find it equally as deplorable that Unions do the same, or is that okay because they support Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2016, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 02:09:18 PM
Do you find it equally as deplorable that Unions do the same, or is that okay because they support Democrats
not really. the GOP is run for the benefit of billionaires who are parasites. US capitalism is fuckd because they have too much money and won't invest it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2016, 03:03:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 11:43:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2016, 03:02:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 02:41:45 AM
rhet·o·ric
ˈredərik/
noun
the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.
synonyms:   oratory, eloquence, command of language, way with words
"a form of rhetoric"
language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.
"all we have from the opposition is empty rhetoric"
synonyms:   bombast, turgidity, grandiloquence, magniloquence, pomposity, extravagant language, purple prose; More

Your use of the word rhetoric alone implies an idle threat

Really?

By your own post, that is one of several interpretations. And your example even has to include the word "empty" to illustrate that interpretation.

From OED: rhetoric, n. 1. a. The art of using language effectively so as to persuade or influence others, esp. the exploitation of figures of speech and other compositional techniques to this end; the study of principles and rules to be followed by a speaker or writer striving for eloquence, esp. as formulated by ancient Greek and Roman writers.

But fixate on a selected meaning if you want.

My point stands, and I'm pretty sure you understand what I meant.

I understand exactly what you mean.....Republicans are bad and Democrats are good

Not really.

The Democrats are typical full of shit politicians with mostly pragmatic, middle of the road policies.

The GOP, on the other hand, have descended into a petulant rabid rabble, lashing out against change in society, whether women, minorities, immigrants, muslims, gays, dealing with environmental degradation and so on. And they're insistent on using scorched earth tactics to achieve their aims.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2016, 03:06:31 PM
Quote from: stew on February 16, 2016, 09:08:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:25:03 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 11:17:49 PM
Stew, I don't think I was picking anyone's bones, but I'm not exactly heartbroken given his judicial decisions.  If I thought his family we're regulars on this board I would probably temper my remarks.

Sorry, too, that I gave the impression that I would vote for a conservative.  Not a chance of that happening. Better chance of the Browns winning Super Bowl LI (and, given this field, I'd love to know what a decent conservative is).

Can't wait for the Senate to drag its heels when Obama nominates a new justice,  as is his constitutional duty.  They do love the Constitution.

Hope you're not freezing in the Great White North.

He is w**king himself to throw a lib would be nominee under the bus, tell the truth, when was the last time a supreme court judge got elected when a sitting president had ten months left to f**k up the country? A hundred maybe?

So is his term only really seven years then? Are the rest of his duties to be similarly curtailed in his last year?

How about the Senate? Shouldn't those 24 GOP senators whose terms are winding down be similarly told to f**k off and forget about their duties, thus leaving their opinions on this issue irrelevant?

When was the last time the issue came up? Besides Reagan and Anthony Kennedy. And LBJ and his failed pick, who at least got a hearing.

As for "f**king up the country", things are a hell of a lot better than they were when he took over.

No thanks to the GOP.


Get off the drugs son, more people live below the poverty line than when he took office, Putin has him in his pocket and he us the main reason europe is flooded with Muslim refugees, some of whom are terrorists, worldwide he is seen as a weakling and to be he will go down as a disastrous president due to his inability to Govern, well in fairness, he did cut his teeth in the most corrupt liberal shithole in the USA, Illinois, he fit right in there.

The right need to get back in and kick these bleeding hrsrt, nsmby pamby liberal fuckwits to the curb and right the ship, eight mire years of a balloon like we have had under Obamination and the country is proper fucked.

Yeah, its amazing that poverty increased on the back of the worst economic catastrophe in 80 years, with 3/4 million jobs being lost a month when he took over! Yet, people like you never stop whinging about government spending and actually trying to help the people affected. Spare us the crocodile tears.

How has Putin got him in his pocket? Or, better still, what should he be doing with respect to Putin? And how the f**k is Obama the "main reason" for the refugee crisis?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2016, 03:10:50 PM
Quote from: stew on February 16, 2016, 12:52:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 16, 2016, 09:59:40 AM
Obama is the reason Europe is "flooded" with refugees... Wow. I know you struggle to grasp a lot of the stuff that goes on here, but that one was breathtaking.

Tell me more about how you'd move to Switzerland where, of course, you'd be such a wonderful cultural fit.

For a man who was so out of touch with American politics, ( think about trump self funding )it makes perfect sense that you cannot see that obamination  failed to take up the advice of his own Generals and have a safe haven for Syrians in their own country, under a no fly zone strictly enforced by the us military.

See Gallstone, if a Republican had have been in the white house not one Syrian would have left the country, no Paris attacks, no rapes and molestation on German women and other women in countries around the world.

Galls Russia has a leader called Putin, your hero Obama is afraid of this former kgb alleged rapist and that is why we have Muslims from all over the middle east converging on Europe, take your time son and let that info sink in.

The Paris attacks were mostly conducted by French and Belgians FFS.

And where and when did the Republicans call for the creation of safe zones in Syria back then? What form would they have taken? Were the Republicans lamenting the fall of Qadafi at the time, something that in retrospect was maybe NOT a good thing? By that standard, was it wrong to take out Saddam?

And why would Obama NOT be afraid of what Putin is capable of. One is a responsible leader. The other is not.

But, again, tell us what Obama should be doing with Putin?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 16, 2016, 03:19:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2016, 12:10:53 PM

Hmmmmm........The old Citizens United line

No mention of the Billions and Billions Democrats get pumped in by the Unions. Citizens United merely leveled the playing field


Not what I'm saying at all, the republican pacs have spent more on this technology and the people to run it and have a lot of stuff ready to go, that simply is not there on the Dem side. I am saying that based on who I know working there, and who has been approached (and by whom) rather than any press reporting, Press has been very quiet on the subject.

The CU ruling sets the rules clearly, not necessarily levels the playing field. The same on behalf of the Unions, rules are clear- in each case just one side better favored than the other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: naka on February 16, 2016, 03:30:41 PM
Quote from: stew on February 16, 2016, 09:08:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2016, 01:25:03 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2016, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2016, 11:17:49 PM
Stew, I don't think I was picking anyone's bones, but I'm not exactly heartbroken given his judicial decisions.  If I thought his family we're regulars on this board I would probably temper my remarks.

Sorry, too, that I gave the impression that I would vote for a conservative.  Not a chance of that happening. Better chance of the Browns winning Super Bowl LI (and, given this field, I'd love to know what a decent conservative is).

Can't wait for the Senate to drag its heels when Obama nominates a new justice,  as is his constitutional duty.  They do love the Constitution.

Hope you're not freezing in the Great White North.

He is w**king himself to throw a lib would be nominee under the bus, tell the truth, when was the last time a supreme court judge got elected when a sitting president had ten months left to f**k up the country? A hundred maybe?

So is his term only really seven years then? Are the rest of his duties to be similarly curtailed in his last year?

How about the Senate? Shouldn't those 24 GOP senators whose terms are winding down be similarly told to f**k off and forget about their duties, thus leaving their opinions on this issue irrelevant?

When was the last time the issue came up? Besides Reagan and Anthony Kennedy. And LBJ and his failed pick, who at least got a hearing.

As for "f**king up the country", things are a hell of a lot better than they were when he took over.

No thanks to the GOP.


Get off the drugs son, more people live below the poverty line than when he took office, Putin has him in his pocket and he us the main reason europe is flooded with Muslim refugees, some of whom are terrorists, worldwide he is seen as a weakling and to be he will go down as a disastrous president due to his inability to Govern, well in fairness, he did cut his teeth in the most corrupt liberal shithole in the USA, Illinois, he fit right in there.

The right need to get back in and kick these bleeding hrsrt, nsmby pamby liberal fuckwits to the curb and right the ship, eight mire years of a balloon like we have had under Obamination and the country is proper fucked.

go on you definitely are too liberal for my liking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2016, 07:08:19 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12715223_10205553571819057_2733218735287144419_n.jpg?oh=f8333e4ec246ea78032458b27fec3f14&oe=576B4C7F)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on February 16, 2016, 07:15:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2016, 03:03:14 PM
The GOP, on the other hand, have descended into a petulant rabid rabble, lashing out against change in society, whether women, minorities, immigrants, muslims, gays, dealing with environmental degradation and so on. And they're insistent on using scorched earth tactics to achieve their aims.
Not in the Hilary or Trump camp and haven't any great knowledge of US politics. So I was just looking at many of the candidates to see would anyone strike a chord with me. But I found the extraordinary nugget that every single one of the Republican candidates think climate change is a hoax!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 16, 2016, 07:19:57 PM
Yes, Hound, for most Republicans climate change refers only to adjusting your thermostat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2016, 08:04:12 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/05/24/how-republicans-got-way/

But true believers at the party's base think differently. They don't see a competition between two parties, with the prize to be won in the handful of battleground and swing states. They see instead an eschatological crisis, and the forces of darkness include not only Obama and the Democrats, but also "Republicans in Name Only," ideologically suspect enemies within the gate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 16, 2016, 08:22:11 PM
The End Times are always just around the corner, and for many on the right Barack Obama seems to be the anti-Christ.  So, maybe, this election is Armageddon.  It's all making sense now. It's in fact Armagh-geddon and the righteous are being led Trumphantly by an angel in orange (hair).  Armagh's time is here, a second coming.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 16, 2016, 08:29:25 PM
As insane as a Trump presidency would seem to many, having lived here for 20+ years, the thoughts of "Democratic Socialist" getting electedresident is almost as unbelievable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 18, 2016, 05:21:23 PM
Classic... the Top Christian in the world says the majority of American Christians are not Christian!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-pope-idUSKCN0VR277
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 18, 2016, 05:42:28 PM
The pope should stick to religion he's doing way too much talking about politics .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 18, 2016, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 18, 2016, 05:42:28 PM
The pope should stick to religion he's doing way too much talking about politics .

It's a matter of balance. He's talking about American politicians - who do way too much talking about religion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 18, 2016, 05:56:53 PM
Trump has responded to the Pope...

Quote​DONALD J. TRUMP RESPONSE TO THE POPE

If and when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS, which as everyone knows is ISIS's ultimate trophy, I can promise you that the Pope would have only wished and prayed that Donald Trump would have been President because this would not have happened. ISIS would have been eradicated unlike what is happening now with our all talk, no action politicians.

The Mexican government and its leadership has made many disparaging remarks about me to the Pope, because they want to continue to rip off the United States, both on trade and at the border, and they understand I am totally wise to them. The Pope only heard one side of the story - he didn't see the crime, the drug trafficking and the negative economic impact the current policies have on the United States. He doesn't see how Mexican leadership is outsmarting President Obama and our leadership in every aspect of negotiation.

For a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. I am proud to be a Christian and as President I will not allow Christianity to be consistently attacked and weakened, unlike what is happening now, with our current President. No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man's religion or faith. They are using the Pope as a pawn and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so, especially when so many lives are involved and when illegal immigration is so rampant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 18, 2016, 06:14:49 PM
The Donald is spot on there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2016, 07:20:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 18, 2016, 06:14:49 PM
The Donald is spot on there

What part?

He makes numerous, unsupported claims, as usual.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2016, 07:23:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 18, 2016, 05:42:28 PM
The pope should stick to religion he's doing way too much talking about politics .

Yes, advocating for the poor and downtrodden and the effect of proposed mass deportations on families is very much disconnected from the pope's mission. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 18, 2016, 10:11:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 18, 2016, 05:21:23 PM
Classic... the Top Christian in the world says the majority of American Christians are not Christian!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-pope-idUSKCN0VR277

Is that the right link?
The article on Reuters you link to doesnt say anything of the sort
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 18, 2016, 10:40:27 PM
The pope will move on to the next country and tell the poor there what they want to hear also.
Bottom line the pope has no business talking about a politicians  religious beliefs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2016, 10:50:37 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/03/10/koch-brothers-new-brand/


In any event, the lasting contribution of the Kochs to our history will almost certainly be the introduction of truly huge money into the political process, vast funds coming from the tiniest sliver of the population. With each election cycle the resources they've assembled have grown, and this year, as I've said, they've announced plans to spend $889 million. About $300 million of that is slated to go directly into campaigns; the rest will pay for get-out-the-vote operations, their voter data project, and the like. "We've had money in the past, but this is so far beyond what anyone has thought of it's mind-boggling," Fred Wertheimer, the longtime head of Common Cause, told Mayer. "This is unheard of in the history of the country. There has never been anything that approaches this."

The really sad story is about Republican Congressman Fred Upton, a moderate who took global warming seriously until, in 2010, he wanted to be chair of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. Then, to appease the Kochs—who had donated to the campaigns of twenty-two of the panel's thirty-one GOP members—he undertook what one political reporter called a "naked belly crawl" into the cave of climate denial, coauthoring an Op-Ed with the head of the Koch's Americans for Prosperity (AFP) and promising to subpoena EPA head Lisa Jackson so frequently that, in Mayer's paraphrase, "she would need her own congressional parking space."


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014/01/09/can-he-save-gop-itself/

One of the original selling points for the Tea Party was that it had moved on from the obsessions of the religious right. It was about deficits, jobs, and small government, not about abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools, and creationism. But as soon as Republicans gained a majority in state legislatures, there was a flood of anti-abortion laws proposed or passed, with religious rationales or backing.
But the Tea Party's eruption in the town hall meetings of 2009 was funded by the Koch brothers' Americans for Prosperity. The right-wing laws passed by Republican state legislatures follow a plan drawn up by the millionaires-funded American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). Corporate money, spouting from the Citizens United decision of the Supreme Court, has flowed into elections for local judges, state legislatures, and "citizens'" opposition to government. There is every reason for the rich to promote measures that limit the vote, promote a defiance of science, or stigmatize "aliens."
This is not cynical opportunism on their part. They believe what Romney told them in their plush hideaway—that 47 percent of Americans are moochers who earn nothing, pay nothing, and deserve nothing. By that logic, the moochers should be kept from voting, or from getting anything the earners have acquired. Their attitude is perfectly summed up by Republican Bruce Rauner, a multimillionaire now running for Illinois governor, who issued this statement:
I've worked extremely hard and feel incredibly blessed to have earned financial success.... Capitalism is the greatest poverty-fighting machine in the history of mankind.... I can't be bought or intimidated by the special interests.
The astonishing thing is that much of the public agrees with that "too rich to be bribed" creed. The proof that we live in a plutocracy is not that the wealthy get most of the prizes in our society, but that majorities think that is how it should be. Even to criticize what the super-wealthy get is to wage "class war." That is why Democrats must shy from words as toxic as "redistribution." Rebecca Blank, a former acting secretary of commerce, could not be nominated to the Council of Economic Advisers because she voiced the truism that "a commitment to economic justice necessarily implies a commitment to the redistribution of economic resources." A new foundation set up to study unequal income found that the gap between the super-rich and everyone else has grown, but that support for the belief that "government should reduce income differences between the rich and poor" has gone down even as the gap widened. So the supposedly "Third Way" think tank warns Democrats that any populist talk of raising taxes on the rich will doom them. Wealth is untouchable, is sacred, for reasons the pope just diagnosed:
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2016, 11:56:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 18, 2016, 10:40:27 PM
The pope will move on to the next country and tell the poor there what they want to hear also.
Bottom line the pope has no business talking about a politicians  religious beliefs.

So staying silent, like Pius XII, is the way to go when it comes to politicians and their policies?

What would you prefer the pope talk to the poor about?

How their suffering and misery in this life will pave the way for eternal happiness?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 19, 2016, 12:00:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 18, 2016, 10:50:37 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/03/10/koch-brothers-new-brand/


In any event, the lasting contribution of the Kochs to our history will almost certainly be the introduction of truly huge money into the political process, vast funds coming from the tiniest sliver of the population. With each election cycle the resources they've assembled have grown, and this year, as I've said, they've announced plans to spend $889 million. About $300 million of that is slated to go directly into campaigns; the rest will pay for get-out-the-vote operations, their voter data project, and the like. "We've had money in the past, but this is so far beyond what anyone has thought of it's mind-boggling," Fred Wertheimer, the longtime head of Common Cause, told Mayer. "This is unheard of in the history of the country. There has never been anything that approaches this."

The really sad story is about Republican Congressman Fred Upton, a moderate who took global warming seriously until, in 2010, he wanted to be chair of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. Then, to appease the Kochs—who had donated to the campaigns of twenty-two of the panel's thirty-one GOP members—he undertook what one political reporter called a "naked belly crawl" into the cave of climate denial, coauthoring an Op-Ed with the head of the Koch's Americans for Prosperity (AFP) and promising to subpoena EPA head Lisa Jackson so frequently that, in Mayer's paraphrase, "she would need her own congressional parking space."


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014/01/09/can-he-save-gop-itself/

One of the original selling points for the Tea Party was that it had moved on from the obsessions of the religious right. It was about deficits, jobs, and small government, not about abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools, and creationism. But as soon as Republicans gained a majority in state legislatures, there was a flood of anti-abortion laws proposed or passed, with religious rationales or backing.
But the Tea Party's eruption in the town hall meetings of 2009 was funded by the Koch brothers' Americans for Prosperity. The right-wing laws passed by Republican state legislatures follow a plan drawn up by the millionaires-funded American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). Corporate money, spouting from the Citizens United decision of the Supreme Court, has flowed into elections for local judges, state legislatures, and "citizens'" opposition to government. There is every reason for the rich to promote measures that limit the vote, promote a defiance of science, or stigmatize "aliens."
This is not cynical opportunism on their part. They believe what Romney told them in their plush hideaway—that 47 percent of Americans are moochers who earn nothing, pay nothing, and deserve nothing. By that logic, the moochers should be kept from voting, or from getting anything the earners have acquired. Their attitude is perfectly summed up by Republican Bruce Rauner, a multimillionaire now running for Illinois governor, who issued this statement:
I've worked extremely hard and feel incredibly blessed to have earned financial success.... Capitalism is the greatest poverty-fighting machine in the history of mankind.... I can't be bought or intimidated by the special interests.
The astonishing thing is that much of the public agrees with that "too rich to be bribed" creed. The proof that we live in a plutocracy is not that the wealthy get most of the prizes in our society, but that majorities think that is how it should be. Even to criticize what the super-wealthy get is to wage "class war." That is why Democrats must shy from words as toxic as "redistribution." Rebecca Blank, a former acting secretary of commerce, could not be nominated to the Council of Economic Advisers because she voiced the truism that "a commitment to economic justice necessarily implies a commitment to the redistribution of economic resources." A new foundation set up to study unequal income found that the gap between the super-rich and everyone else has grown, but that support for the belief that "government should reduce income differences between the rich and poor" has gone down even as the gap widened. So the supposedly "Third Way" think tank warns Democrats that any populist talk of raising taxes on the rich will doom them. Wealth is untouchable, is sacred, for reasons the pope just diagnosed:

Its bizarre when you walk through the dinosaur halls of the American Museum of Natural History and see David Koch's name plastered on the wall.

Or when you turn on Nova (US equivalent of BBC's Horizon) and see Koch as one of the funders for a programme on global warming and its effects on the planet and life.

Thankfully AMNH has ended its association with him. Hopefully PBS will soon too. He throws a few million at those issues for cheap publicity, while spending millions upon millions undermining the science and scientists they rely on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 19, 2016, 12:02:54 AM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2015/03/19/2016-republicans-write/
The Republicans write
About GOP ideology
•   After decades of growing incomes for the middle class, the years between 2000 and 2011 were what the Pew Research Center calls a "lost decade." In those years, middle-class Americans made less money, had more debt and had less wealth—in fact, for the first time since World War II, the middle class actually shrank in size.
Even when Republicans acknowledge the wage problem, they don't see it as resulting from chiefly economic factors. To them, the main culprits are moral decay and culture, notably the decline of the two-parent family—a father and a mother, it nearly goes without saying.
•   When people don't see structural economic factors as the problem, they're hardly likely to hit upon plausible economic solutions.
•   But Santorum puts forth no policy solutions of real interest. His chapter called "Giving the American Worker a Fighting Chance" ends with really just two policy recommendations, and they're the same old ones: cut the corporate tax rate and reduce regulations.
•    One might have thought, then, that he was equipped to present a serviceably respectable conservative response to the problems of stagnant wages and increasing inequality.
But then one day in 2012, a man challenged him: Who are these takers you speak of? "Is it the person who lost their job and is on unemployment benefits? Is it the veteran who served in Iraq and gets their medical care through the VA?" Apparently, none of this had ever occurred to Ryan
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/05/24/how-republicans-got-way/

How the Republicans got that way
GOP fundamentalism
Strategists at the top of the party's pyramid may prefer a candidate they think will be palatable to independent voters in November. But true believers at the party's base think differently. They don't see a competition between two parties, with the prize to be won in the handful of battleground and swing states. They see instead an eschatological crisis, and the forces of darkness include not only Obama and the Democrats, but also "Republicans in Name Only," ideologically suspect enemies within the gate. The GOP's previous nominee, John McCain, another suspected moderate, compensated by running even harder to the right after he got the nomination, defying conventional campaign wisdom and alienating independents. If Romney fails to rouse the GOP base, he may be forced to do the same.
There is nothing new in this. Since the inception of "movement conservatism" in the 1950s, Geoffrey Kabaservice writes in Rule and Ruin, his comprehensive account of internecine Republican warfare, the long-range objective for such conservatives has been
to transform the Republican Party into an organ of conservative ideology and purge it of all who resisted the true faith. Moderate Republicans were the primary enemies and targets of movement conservatism. The need to do battle with Democratic liberals often was only a secondary consideration.... [Barry] Goldwater's warning to moderates at the '64 GOP national convention that they had to support "extremism in the defense of liberty" or leave the party was a classic expression of rule-or-ruin politics. So too were the conservative efforts to purge moderate Republican officeholders, even at the cost of replacing them with liberal Democrats.

The Collapsing Center
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/02/10/after-new-hampshire-collapsing-center/
Put bluntly, Hillary Clinton may be miscast as a candidate. She keeps trying on a role that doesn't quite fit. Her many talents—her formidable brainpower, her seriousness about and knowledge of complex public policy—aren't necessarily tailored for a presidential campaign, where expressing what one's about in a clear and easily comprehended way is so highly prized. Her message—to the extent she's had one—that she's "a progressive who can get things done" was hardly soaring, especially as compared to Sanders's sweeping vision: replacing Obamacare with a single-payer system, providing free college tuition for everyone, and cutting back the role of billionaires and big corporations in our elections. (The idea of expanding Medicare into a single-payer system isn't completely daft. It was backed by the late Edward M. Kennedy and widely supported by the Democratic base. Clinton's argument is that it simply isn't feasible to junk the hard-won Obamacare in favor of something Congress is most unlikely to pass. Technically, she's correct, but the issue has her arguing a negative proposition.)

In addition, by pointing out repeatedly that Clinton had received $675,000 for three speeches to Goldman Sachs alone, Sanders, who had brilliantly encapsulated his message that the economic system is rigged against you and is held in place by the campaign finance system, has had Clinton back on her heels about her close connections with Wall Street. The Clintons' galloping greed had made them very wealthy—together they earned $153 million for speeches from 2001 until she launched her presidential campaign—and rendered her vulnerable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 19, 2016, 12:05:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 18, 2016, 05:42:28 PM
The pope should stick to religion he's doing way too much talking about politics .

Completely agree Gmac, there should be absolute separation between church and state...which is why Trump shouldn't be doing events at Liberty U, courting Jerry Falwell and talking about "two Corinthians"...which, ironically enough, sounds like the start of a bad joke.

Perhaps if he and his ilk (Cruz is even worse) stayed out of the Pope's patch he'd stay out of theirs. But if you're going to frame a political campaign as a moral crusade, then surely the moral arbiter of over a billion catholics worldwide can express an opinion about it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 19, 2016, 12:23:15 AM
Obama attacked trump yesterday very rare to hear current president commenting on future presidential candidates , pope joins in today coincidense I think not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 19, 2016, 01:10:51 AM
Conspiracy theories? Very Trumplike.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 19, 2016, 03:14:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2016, 12:23:15 AM
Obama attacked trump yesterday very rare to hear current president commenting on future presidential candidates , pope joins in today coincidense I think not.

They're in cahoots, are they? ;D

Or are sensible people independently giving sensible opinions on the freak show that is the Trump candidacy?

As for rarity, it's not too common either for a would-be candidate for the presidency to make a huge show of himself trying to appeal to the far right loons by sending "teams of experts" to Hawaii to fish out a sitting president's birth certificate or make stupid attention seeking offers of charity donations in return for a president's college transcripts on the eve of an election. Or then, after that election, to take to Twitter to whine about the one-sided election being stolen.

Obama doesn't owe that narcissistic, egomaniacal moron even an ounce of respect. He is not,as Obama stated, a serious candidate. He's an attention whore without an ounce of integrity who will do or say anything and walk over anyone to get what he wants, in this case spouting empty platitudes and pushing prejudicial buttons to win over the angry white Christian crowd.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 19, 2016, 07:57:50 AM
It's fun watching this from a distance  :)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/11698712_877981962294859_8460245880224410490_n.jpg?oh=a919934f22e6ee8012ac215b67eff2df&oe=576CD7C3&__gda__=1466096081_dc16cd26a65c4d9e314f46e0ec12e7e1)


QuoteBut if you're going to frame a political campaign as a moral crusade, then surely the moral arbiter of over a billion catholics worldwide can express an opinion about it?
+1

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 19, 2016, 09:58:43 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 19, 2016, 07:57:50 AM
It's fun watching this from a distance  :)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/11698712_877981962294859_8460245880224410490_n.jpg?oh=a919934f22e6ee8012ac215b67eff2df&oe=576CD7C3&__gda__=1466096081_dc16cd26a65c4d9e314f46e0ec12e7e1)


Bullshit!































Gas is now down to $1.69 in NJ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 21, 2016, 01:51:22 AM
So, Clinton wins Nevada, Trump runs away with South Carolina, and Bush withdraws.  Does that now catapult Rubio into a head-to-head with Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2016, 02:36:46 AM
What about the Fox écho chamber abuzz with talk of a Judge scalia murder. WTF
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 21, 2016, 05:06:45 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 21, 2016, 01:51:22 AM
So, Clinton wins Nevada, Trump runs away with South Carolina, and Bush withdraws.  Does that now catapult Rubio into a head-to-head with Trump?
obamas outburst against trump was probably a boost to him in South Carolina , he's winning by a large margin in Nevada and if it was any other candidate the media would be crowning him already , interesting to see how it shakes out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2016, 05:12:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2016, 02:36:46 AM
What about the Fox écho chamber abuzz with talk of a Judge scalia murder. WTF

Really? Fox are fueling that?

I read a few days back about Alex Jones and his ilk talking about it, but they're way, way out there on the extremes (well at least most of the time - they got Fox and the rest, including the Texas governor, on board with their Jade Helm paranoia - an illustration, in microcosm, of the state of the conservative movement in the US today).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on February 21, 2016, 10:03:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2016, 05:12:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2016, 02:36:46 AM
What about the Fox écho chamber abuzz with talk of a Judge scalia murder. WTF

Really? Fox are fueling that?

I read a few days back about Alex Jones and his ilk talking about it, but they're way, way out there on the extremes (well at least most of the time - they got Fox and the rest, including the Texas governor, on board with their Jade Helm paranoia - an illustration, in microcosm, of the state of the conservative movement in the US today).

whats the story with this boy? came across him only recently on youtube and have found myself intrigued with some of his rambles
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 21, 2016, 10:35:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 21, 2016, 05:06:45 PM

obamas outburst against trump was probably a boost to him in South Carolina

If that was on purpose, then that is a stroke of genius.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 21, 2016, 11:00:26 PM
What is the GOP establishment to do?  They wantRubio to be the nominee, but that's unlikely to happen if both Cruz and Trump remain in the race.  But neither Cruz nor Trump is known for his willingness to back down.  Will they settle for Trump, figuring that he's more manageable than obdurate Cruz?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2016, 11:09:42 PM
Trump has no chance. He has to adhere to evangelical doctrine while trying to win 50% and has insulted Latinos by means of the wall. It s a waste of time. The GOP is lost. I think a majority of under 5s in the US is not white. And the GOP has no clue how to respond. Because they are slaves to the Kochs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 22, 2016, 12:19:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 21, 2016, 05:06:45 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 21, 2016, 01:51:22 AM
So, Clinton wins Nevada, Trump runs away with South Carolina, and Bush withdraws.  Does that now catapult Rubio into a head-to-head with Trump?
obamas outburst against trump was probably a boost to him in South Carolina , he's winning by a large margin in Nevada and if it was any other candidate the media would be crowning him already , interesting to see how it shakes out.

If this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDmIdhcQ4Ew) is what you're referring to, I can't think of anything less like an outburst. I think it's quite powerful and impressive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2016, 12:52:42 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on February 21, 2016, 10:03:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2016, 05:12:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2016, 02:36:46 AM
What about the Fox écho chamber abuzz with talk of a Judge scalia murder. WTF

Really? Fox are fueling that?

I read a few days back about Alex Jones and his ilk talking about it, but they're way, way out there on the extremes (well at least most of the time - they got Fox and the rest, including the Texas governor, on board with their Jade Helm paranoia - an illustration, in microcosm, of the state of the conservative movement in the US today).

whats the story with this boy? came across him only recently on youtube and have found myself intrigued with some of his rambles

He has quite a following among the conspiracy theory crowd.

Although his paranoia tends to end where it clashes with right wing politics.

The Jade Helm stuff was one of the more laughable things he championed, although as usual with these boys he didn't have much to say in the way of mea culpas when the feds did not in fact use Walmarts to conquer Texas! What was especially notable about Jade Helm though was that it really caught on among more mainstream GOP figures, including the governor of Texas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 22, 2016, 01:13:17 AM
So, seafood, how do you think it's going to play out if both Cruz and Rubio stay in the contest until the bitter end?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2016, 01:59:18 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 22, 2016, 12:19:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 21, 2016, 05:06:45 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 21, 2016, 01:51:22 AM
So, Clinton wins Nevada, Trump runs away with South Carolina, and Bush withdraws.  Does that now catapult Rubio into a head-to-head with Trump?
obamas outburst against trump was probably a boost to him in South Carolina , he's winning by a large margin in Nevada and if it was any other candidate the media would be crowning him already , interesting to see how it shakes out.

If this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDmIdhcQ4Ew) is what you're referring to, I can't think of anything less like an outburst. I think it's quite powerful and impressive.
theres no doubt he's  a great speaker that's what got him elected ,he lacked experience and guile Which has exposed him on the international stage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2016, 03:08:36 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 22, 2016, 01:13:17 AM
So, seafood, how do you think it's going to play out if both Cruz and Rubio stay in the contest until the bitter end?

They might have to leave it to the convention to decide who the nominee is!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 22, 2016, 01:43:04 PM
Watched this last  night -Fascinating programme on the Black Panther movement in the 60s.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b071gr5h/storyville-20152016-17-the-black-panthers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b071gr5h/storyville-20152016-17-the-black-panthers)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 22, 2016, 03:37:55 PM
Clinton is on the right path to having the nomination sewn up.

What is not often discussed ( a bit like the electoral college system) is the delegate system for the nomination. The count there is 500:70 Clinton, she needs 2400(ish) to win it, and there's nearly 900 handed out march 1st. She could conceivably pull the rug out from under Sanders then, effectively ending the contest. At this point Bernie is going to need very surprising landslides in very surprising places...

From the NYTimes today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/22/us/politics/delegate-count-leaving-bernie-sanders-with-steep-climb.html

QuoteSenator Bernie Sanders vowed on Sunday to fight on after losing the Nevada caucuses, predicting that he would pull off a historic political upset by this summer's party convention.

But the often overlooked delegate count in the Democratic primary shows Mr. Sanders slipping significantly behind Hillary Clinton in the race for the nomination, and the odds of his overtaking her growing increasingly remote.

Mrs. Clinton has 502 delegates to Mr. Sanders's 70; 2,383 are needed to win the nomination. These numbers include delegates won in state contests and superdelegates, who can support any candidate. She is likely to win a delegate jackpot from the overwhelmingly black and Hispanic areas in the Southern-dominated Super Tuesday primaries on March 1, when 11 states will vote and about 880 delegates will be awarded.



Since delegates are awarded proportionally based on vote tallies in congressional districts and some other areas, only blowout victories yield large numbers of delegates. And Mrs. Clinton is better positioned than Mr. Sanders to win big in more delegate-rich districts, like those carved out to ensure minority Democrats in Congress, where she remains popular.

"She could effectively end the race in less than two weeks' time on Super Tuesday," said David Wasserman, a top analyst for The Cook Political Report, who has been closely tracking the delegate race.

Of course, politics is unpredictable, as this cycle's presidential campaign has demonstrated. Mrs. Clinton will face questions about her candidacy, including the outcome of an F.B.I. investigation into the use of a private email server while she was secretary of state. And Mr. Sanders has shown an ability to create grass-roots excitement in surprising places.

Still, while Mrs. Clinton is far from reaching 2,383 delegates, she is poised to create the sort of mathematical quandary for Mr. Sanders that she faced in 2008. That winter, Barack Obama used an 11-state winning streak to establish a lead of 100 delegates that Mrs. Clinton was never able to surmount. While a similar streak is unlikely this year, advisers to Mr. Sanders concede that Mrs. Clinton could generate a significant delegate lead now that she has momentum from her Nevada win. But they say they are not out of the running.

"The Clintons can get a delegate lead quicker than we can, and they have a way to gut out the delegate fight," said Tad Devine, a senior adviser to Mr. Sanders. "We have to turn victories in state after state into big momentum that can change the numbers."

Mrs. Clinton already has a huge lead over Mr. Sanders in support from superdelegates — elected officials and party elders who each count toward the magic number of 2,383. But superdelegates could switch candidates if Mr. Sanders is the overwhelming choice of regular voters.

For now, Mrs. Clinton is focused on building her lead among so-called pledged delegates — those awarded proportionally by congressional districts from primary and caucus results. Mr. Sanders is aiming to score wins in states like Massachusetts and Minnesota while holding Mrs. Clinton to narrow wins elsewhere. Small margins of victory keep delegate allocations roughly even. A New York Times analysis found that Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders are tied in the pledged delegate count, at 51 each.


David Plouffe, the architect of Mr. Obama's delegate strategy in 2008 and Mr. Obama's campaign manager, said Mr. Sanders would need "surprising landslides in surprising places" if Mrs. Clinton did well on Super Tuesday. If Mrs. Clinton builds a small but stable lead, Mr. Sanders would need to overwhelm her in major primaries later in the spring.

"It is likely Sanders would have to win by double digits, if not by 20 points, in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and California to begin to crawl out of what seems like a small but, in fact, is a deep and persistent hole" in the delegate count, said Mr. Plouffe, who is supporting Mrs. Clinton.

Early on, the Clinton team identified the most advantageous congressional districts for winning more delegates — especially those that include large numbers of African-Americans and Hispanics. Some allies of Mrs. Clinton said a lead of 100 pledged delegates over Mr. Sanders would be enough to make it impossible for him to catch up, assuming Mrs. Clinton's candidacy does not collapse. If she finishes the race in June with a lead in pledged delegates, her superdelegates are all but certain to remain loyal and clinch the nomination for her.

Mr. Sanders has his own ambitious plan to rack up delegates, but it faces tougher odds than Mrs. Clinton's, even though only three states have voted.

The senator was counting on momentum from Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada to hobble Mrs. Clinton and energize his campaign through Super Tuesday, and then in Michigan and elsewhere in March. But he won only New Hampshire. His campaign is now spending heavily to win four of the Super Tuesday states — Colorado, Massachusetts, Minnesota, and Oklahoma — while taking victory for granted in a fifth, his home state of Vermont.

Mr. Devine, a veteran of presidential campaigns and a longtime expert in delegate strategy, said that if Mr. Sanders could end up close to Mrs. Clinton in the pledged delegate count, the senator and his team would lobby superdelegates from the states he won to reflect the will of their voters, defect from her and give him a margin to win the nomination.


Several Sanders supporters said they were counting on the proportional system of allocating delegates to keep Mr. Sanders in the race for several more months. While many Republican primaries award delegates on a winner-take-all basis, the Democratic rules can mean a long race when there are two or more strong candidates.

"Now other factors come into play like her emails and transcripts," said State Senator Tick Segerblom of Nevada, a Sanders supporter, referring to controversies over Mrs. Clinton's private server and the unreleased transcripts of her speeches to Wall Street firms.

Some Democrats pointed to Mrs. Clinton's hiring of Jeffrey Berman, a consultant to the campaign and a leading Democratic thinker on delegate strategy, as a major advantage for her. Mr. Berman worked closely with Mr. Plouffe on the Obama campaign's strategy of competing hard in every congressional district. Mrs. Clinton's 2008 campaign focused instead on winning the most delegate-rich states.


"Hillary should have been the nominee in 2008, but Berman was an old-fashioned delegate counter who bested her campaign's approach," said Elaine C. Kamarck, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who studied the 2008 race for her 2015 book, "Primary Politics." "She is clearly not making that mistake again."

Mr. Berman said Mrs. Clinton had cleared some of the key hurdles in the delegate race, starting with a narrow win in the Iowa caucuses, where she proved she could prevail in the caucus format after losing 13 of 14 caucuses to Mr. Obama in 2008. Mr. Sanders was widely expected to win more delegates than Mrs. Clinton in caucuses because they are driven by the sort of energized voters he has inspired. Instead, she came out ahead.


"The Clinton campaign is built for the long haul, much as the Obama campaign was in 2008," Mr. Berman said.

Mr. Wasserman of The Cook Political Report said its analysis of the Nevada race bore out Mr. Berman's point.

"By our math, Bernie Sanders needed to win 19 of Nevada's 35 delegates to keep pace for the nomination nationally. Instead, Clinton won at least 19 delegates and possibly 20," Mr. Wasserman said. "This is the first contest that's provided real reassurance that she's still the front-runner, and it robs Sanders of the one thing he had going for him recently — momentum."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2016, 06:52:28 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 22, 2016, 01:13:17 AM
So, seafood, how do you think it's going to play out if both Cruz and Rubio stay in the contest until the bitter end?
I think Trump will win the GOP because he is less narrow than either of the 2. Ad then he will e pasted in the election cos he can't get women or Latinos onside, as per Romney,but also because he will not address income inequality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on February 23, 2016, 10:06:57 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 22, 2016, 03:37:55 PM
Clinton is on the right path to having the nomination sewn up.

What is not often discussed ( a bit like the electoral college system) is the delegate system for the nomination. The count there is 500:70 Clinton, she needs 2400(ish) to win it, and there's nearly 900 handed out march 1st. She could conceivably pull the rug out from under Sanders then, effectively ending the contest. At this point Bernie is going to need very surprising landslides in very surprising places...

From the NYTimes today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/22/us/politics/delegate-count-leaving-bernie-sanders-with-steep-climb.html

QuoteSenator Bernie Sanders vowed on Sunday to fight on after losing the Nevada caucuses, predicting that he would pull off a historic political upset by this summer's party convention.

But the often overlooked delegate count in the Democratic primary shows Mr. Sanders slipping significantly behind Hillary Clinton in the race for the nomination, and the odds of his overtaking her growing increasingly remote.

Mrs. Clinton has 502 delegates to Mr. Sanders's 70; 2,383 are needed to win the nomination. These numbers include delegates won in state contests and superdelegates, who can support any candidate. She is likely to win a delegate jackpot from the overwhelmingly black and Hispanic areas in the Southern-dominated Super Tuesday primaries on March 1, when 11 states will vote and about 880 delegates will be awarded.



Since delegates are awarded proportionally based on vote tallies in congressional districts and some other areas, only blowout victories yield large numbers of delegates. And Mrs. Clinton is better positioned than Mr. Sanders to win big in more delegate-rich districts, like those carved out to ensure minority Democrats in Congress, where she remains popular.

"She could effectively end the race in less than two weeks' time on Super Tuesday," said David Wasserman, a top analyst for The Cook Political Report, who has been closely tracking the delegate race.

Of course, politics is unpredictable, as this cycle's presidential campaign has demonstrated. Mrs. Clinton will face questions about her candidacy, including the outcome of an F.B.I. investigation into the use of a private email server while she was secretary of state. And Mr. Sanders has shown an ability to create grass-roots excitement in surprising places.

Still, while Mrs. Clinton is far from reaching 2,383 delegates, she is poised to create the sort of mathematical quandary for Mr. Sanders that she faced in 2008. That winter, Barack Obama used an 11-state winning streak to establish a lead of 100 delegates that Mrs. Clinton was never able to surmount. While a similar streak is unlikely this year, advisers to Mr. Sanders concede that Mrs. Clinton could generate a significant delegate lead now that she has momentum from her Nevada win. But they say they are not out of the running.

"The Clintons can get a delegate lead quicker than we can, and they have a way to gut out the delegate fight," said Tad Devine, a senior adviser to Mr. Sanders. "We have to turn victories in state after state into big momentum that can change the numbers."

Mrs. Clinton already has a huge lead over Mr. Sanders in support from superdelegates — elected officials and party elders who each count toward the magic number of 2,383. But superdelegates could switch candidates if Mr. Sanders is the overwhelming choice of regular voters.

For now, Mrs. Clinton is focused on building her lead among so-called pledged delegates — those awarded proportionally by congressional districts from primary and caucus results. Mr. Sanders is aiming to score wins in states like Massachusetts and Minnesota while holding Mrs. Clinton to narrow wins elsewhere. Small margins of victory keep delegate allocations roughly even. A New York Times analysis found that Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders are tied in the pledged delegate count, at 51 each.


David Plouffe, the architect of Mr. Obama's delegate strategy in 2008 and Mr. Obama's campaign manager, said Mr. Sanders would need "surprising landslides in surprising places" if Mrs. Clinton did well on Super Tuesday. If Mrs. Clinton builds a small but stable lead, Mr. Sanders would need to overwhelm her in major primaries later in the spring.

"It is likely Sanders would have to win by double digits, if not by 20 points, in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and California to begin to crawl out of what seems like a small but, in fact, is a deep and persistent hole" in the delegate count, said Mr. Plouffe, who is supporting Mrs. Clinton.

Early on, the Clinton team identified the most advantageous congressional districts for winning more delegates — especially those that include large numbers of African-Americans and Hispanics. Some allies of Mrs. Clinton said a lead of 100 pledged delegates over Mr. Sanders would be enough to make it impossible for him to catch up, assuming Mrs. Clinton's candidacy does not collapse. If she finishes the race in June with a lead in pledged delegates, her superdelegates are all but certain to remain loyal and clinch the nomination for her.

Mr. Sanders has his own ambitious plan to rack up delegates, but it faces tougher odds than Mrs. Clinton's, even though only three states have voted.

The senator was counting on momentum from Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada to hobble Mrs. Clinton and energize his campaign through Super Tuesday, and then in Michigan and elsewhere in March. But he won only New Hampshire. His campaign is now spending heavily to win four of the Super Tuesday states — Colorado, Massachusetts, Minnesota, and Oklahoma — while taking victory for granted in a fifth, his home state of Vermont.

Mr. Devine, a veteran of presidential campaigns and a longtime expert in delegate strategy, said that if Mr. Sanders could end up close to Mrs. Clinton in the pledged delegate count, the senator and his team would lobby superdelegates from the states he won to reflect the will of their voters, defect from her and give him a margin to win the nomination.


Several Sanders supporters said they were counting on the proportional system of allocating delegates to keep Mr. Sanders in the race for several more months. While many Republican primaries award delegates on a winner-take-all basis, the Democratic rules can mean a long race when there are two or more strong candidates.

"Now other factors come into play like her emails and transcripts," said State Senator Tick Segerblom of Nevada, a Sanders supporter, referring to controversies over Mrs. Clinton's private server and the unreleased transcripts of her speeches to Wall Street firms.

Some Democrats pointed to Mrs. Clinton's hiring of Jeffrey Berman, a consultant to the campaign and a leading Democratic thinker on delegate strategy, as a major advantage for her. Mr. Berman worked closely with Mr. Plouffe on the Obama campaign's strategy of competing hard in every congressional district. Mrs. Clinton's 2008 campaign focused instead on winning the most delegate-rich states.


"Hillary should have been the nominee in 2008, but Berman was an old-fashioned delegate counter who bested her campaign's approach," said Elaine C. Kamarck, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who studied the 2008 race for her 2015 book, "Primary Politics." "She is clearly not making that mistake again."

Mr. Berman said Mrs. Clinton had cleared some of the key hurdles in the delegate race, starting with a narrow win in the Iowa caucuses, where she proved she could prevail in the caucus format after losing 13 of 14 caucuses to Mr. Obama in 2008. Mr. Sanders was widely expected to win more delegates than Mrs. Clinton in caucuses because they are driven by the sort of energized voters he has inspired. Instead, she came out ahead.


"The Clinton campaign is built for the long haul, much as the Obama campaign was in 2008," Mr. Berman said.

Mr. Wasserman of The Cook Political Report said its analysis of the Nevada race bore out Mr. Berman's point.

"By our math, Bernie Sanders needed to win 19 of Nevada's 35 delegates to keep pace for the nomination nationally. Instead, Clinton won at least 19 delegates and possibly 20," Mr. Wasserman said. "This is the first contest that's provided real reassurance that she's still the front-runner, and it robs Sanders of the one thing he had going for him recently — momentum."

Maybe I am reading that wrong but is the NYT referencing Gerrymandering as a simple fact of political life?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on February 23, 2016, 10:24:20 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 23, 2016, 10:06:57 AM
Maybe I am reading that wrong but is the NYT referencing Gerrymandering as a simple fact of political life?

You are not reading it wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on February 23, 2016, 02:06:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 23, 2016, 10:24:20 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 23, 2016, 10:06:57 AM
Maybe I am reading that wrong but is the NYT referencing Gerrymandering as a simple fact of political life?

You are not reading it wrong.

No equivalent of the electoral commision or are both sides happy with the status quo?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on February 23, 2016, 02:35:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 23, 2016, 02:06:49 PM
No equivalent of the electoral commision or are both sides happy with the status quo?

Both. If there's anything a political party loves more than a rotten borough, I've yet to encounter it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2016, 04:10:08 PM
This would make you sick

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/01/30/clinton-system-donor-machine-2016-election/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2016, 05:35:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2016, 04:10:08 PM
This would make you sick

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/01/30/clinton-system-donor-machine-2016-election/

I guess Mr. Head is in the Bernie column!

Pretty damning stuff.

Unfortunately for the GOP, there's not a lot there for them to look into and perhaps attack her on when it comes to the general election, given that they are also bought and paid for by Wall Street and big business.

I wonder how much Trump himself has contributed over the years?!  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 23, 2016, 07:22:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2016, 05:35:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2016, 04:10:08 PM
This would make you sick

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/01/30/clinton-system-donor-machine-2016-election/

I guess Mr. Head is in the Bernie column!

Pretty damning stuff.

Unfortunately for the GOP, there's not a lot there for them to look into and perhaps attack her on when it comes to the general election, given that they are also bought and paid for by Wall Street and big business.

I wonder how much Trump himself has contributed over the years?!  :P

The majority of his money went to the liberals, he himself is a liberal, always has been and always will be.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2016, 07:43:34 PM
Trump
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2015/09/24/trump/
Two qualities more than any others have driven conservatism in our time. The first is cultural and racial resentment, felt by the mostly older and very white population the GOP increasingly represents—resentment against a fast-changing, more openly sexual America, as well as against dark-skinned immigrants, and White House occupants, and gay people and political correctness and the "moocher class" and all the rest. The second is what we might call spectacle—the unrelenting push toward a rhetorical style ever more gladiatorial and ever more outraged (and outrageous), driven initially by talk-radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh and now reproduced on websites, podcasts, and Twitter feeds too numerous to mention. There is a strong tendency, perfected over the years by Fox News, to cover and discuss domestic politics as a combination of war, sport, and entertainment all at once.
Well, Trump is conservative resentment and spectacle made flesh.
Certain assumptions about what a Republican politician could and could not get away with doing, assumptions shared by the entire political establishment—that you couldn't attack a war hero, say, or that a GOP candidate would never dare pick a fight with Fox—have been shattered. When he speaks, the media will listen and, given the ratings he ensures, will give him as much coverage as traffic numbers suggest they ought to.
Republican Party Chairman Reince Priebus is clearly terrified of him. Even Fox News head Roger Ailes—the effective cochairman of the Republican Party for a number of years now—treats him gingerly. Karl Rove wants desperately for the party establishment to block him. They all wish he would go away, even while they must know that they are responsible for Trump because they have spent many years creating an audience that was just waiting for someone like him to come along.
The three major nearer-term explanations for his success are pretty straightforward. The first is his celebrity. Trump hosts a network prime-time show, NBC's The Celebrity Apprentice, which has run for fourteen seasons (as The Apprentice for eight of those seasons). That is a long time to be on prime-time television. Seinfeld, one of the most popular television shows in history, lasted nine seasons.
The second reason is the surprising weakness of the rest of the GOP field.
The final cause of Trump's rise has been the intense attention given to him by the political media.
In the real, complicated world, solving one problem generally means creating another. But Trump's moral universe has no space for such disorder. All it takes is some resolve, titanium again being the key element:
I do deals—big deals—all the time. I know and work with all the toughest operators in the world of high-stakes global finance. These are hard-driving, vicious cutthroat financial killers, the kind of people who leave blood all over the boardroom table and fight to the bitter end to gain maximum advantage. And guess what? Those are exactly the kind of negotiators the United States needs, not these cream puff "diplomats" Obama sends around the globe to play patty cake with foreign governments. No, we need smart people with titanium spines and big brains who love America enough to fight fiercely for our interests.
That's the essence of it. His supporters seem to believe that he can do these things; or, even if they don't quite believe, they long for someone who can—who can tame OPEC and China and Iran as if world affairs could be made to be like a reality TV show. This is an understandable yearning to some extent, in an age in which the United States' ability to call the global shots is so much reduced from what it was fifty years ago. But it has a more sinister aspect, this wish for a strong man who can just fix everything. And surely it's also the case for some Trump supporters that after eight years of Obama, a bullying white man is exactly what is needed to restore things to their natural order. It is these qualities that lend Trumpism its faintly disturbing Face in the Crowd odor.
On domestic issues, his book is rather dull. Every chapter—on taxes, entitlements, health care, the social safety net—starts out with a few broadsides flung at Obama for being either incompetent, weak, or too left-wing and then moves on to policy prescriptions that have been standard conservative points for years. There would be four marginal tax rates under President Trump, the highest at just 15 percent, and that only on dollars earned above $1 million. On top of this he would reduce the corporate tax rate to zero. The national treasury would be depleted. But not to worry—working people would get to keep more of their hard-earned money, and they'd get to spend more years earning it, since Trump proposes raising the retirement age.

If Trump wins the nomination he will be among the least informed candidates for the presidency in a long time. He blusters his way through the (relatively few) substantive questions put to him in interviews and debates: he knows how to get things done; he has "lots of friends" among the (fill-in-the-blank, be it a nationality, such as Mexicans, or other groups, such as Muslims or members of Congress). And he's been subjected to little follow-up questioning: so far, to my knowledge, when Trump says, as he has frequently, about his fuzzy health care plan, that we won't leave people "dying in the streets," no one has pointed out that those are the people whom Medicaid and emergency rooms are designed to take care of
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2016, 08:07:00 PM
Quote from: stew on February 23, 2016, 07:22:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2016, 05:35:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2016, 04:10:08 PM
This would make you sick

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/01/30/clinton-system-donor-machine-2016-election/

I guess Mr. Head is in the Bernie column!

Pretty damning stuff.

Unfortunately for the GOP, there's not a lot there for them to look into and perhaps attack her on when it comes to the general election, given that they are also bought and paid for by Wall Street and big business.

I wonder how much Trump himself has contributed over the years?!  :P

The majority of his money went to the liberals, he himself is a liberal, always has been and always will be.

Purely on the money issue, I'd say it's more a case of paying off whoever the powers-that-be were to gain access and favours. In the NE and Chicago, mostly Democrats. Other places, Republican.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2016, 07:54:48 AM
Trump wins Nevada with a high Latino vote.
The GOP hierarchy want Rubio to get the nomination. It's mad, Ted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 24, 2016, 10:13:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2016, 07:43:34 PM
Trump
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2015/09/24/trump/
Two qualities more than any others have driven conservatism in our time. The first is cultural and racial resentment, felt by the mostly older and very white population the GOP increasingly represents—resentment against a fast-changing, more openly sexual America, as well as against dark-skinned immigrants, and White House occupants, and gay people and political correctness and the "moocher class" and all the rest. The second is what we might call spectacle—the unrelenting push toward a rhetorical style ever more gladiatorial and ever more outraged (and outrageous), driven initially by talk-radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh and now reproduced on websites, podcasts, and Twitter feeds too numerous to mention. There is a strong tendency, perfected over the years by Fox News, to cover and discuss domestic politics as a combination of war, sport, and entertainment all at once.
Well, Trump is conservative resentment and spectacle made flesh.
Certain assumptions about what a Republican politician could and could not get away with doing, assumptions shared by the entire political establishment—that you couldn't attack a war hero, say, or that a GOP candidate would never dare pick a fight with Fox—have been shattered. When he speaks, the media will listen and, given the ratings he ensures, will give him as much coverage as traffic numbers suggest they ought to.
Republican Party Chairman Reince Priebus is clearly terrified of him. Even Fox News head Roger Ailes—the effective cochairman of the Republican Party for a number of years now—treats him gingerly. Karl Rove wants desperately for the party establishment to block him. They all wish he would go away, even while they must know that they are responsible for Trump because they have spent many years creating an audience that was just waiting for someone like him to come along.
The three major nearer-term explanations for his success are pretty straightforward. The first is his celebrity. Trump hosts a network prime-time show, NBC's The Celebrity Apprentice, which has run for fourteen seasons (as The Apprentice for eight of those seasons). That is a long time to be on prime-time television. Seinfeld, one of the most popular television shows in history, lasted nine seasons.
The second reason is the surprising weakness of the rest of the GOP field.
The final cause of Trump's rise has been the intense attention given to him by the political media.
In the real, complicated world, solving one problem generally means creating another. But Trump's moral universe has no space for such disorder. All it takes is some resolve, titanium again being the key element:
I do deals—big deals—all the time. I know and work with all the toughest operators in the world of high-stakes global finance. These are hard-driving, vicious cutthroat financial killers, the kind of people who leave blood all over the boardroom table and fight to the bitter end to gain maximum advantage. And guess what? Those are exactly the kind of negotiators the United States needs, not these cream puff "diplomats" Obama sends around the globe to play patty cake with foreign governments. No, we need smart people with titanium spines and big brains who love America enough to fight fiercely for our interests.
That's the essence of it. His supporters seem to believe that he can do these things; or, even if they don't quite believe, they long for someone who can—who can tame OPEC and China and Iran as if world affairs could be made to be like a reality TV show. This is an understandable yearning to some extent, in an age in which the United States' ability to call the global shots is so much reduced from what it was fifty years ago. But it has a more sinister aspect, this wish for a strong man who can just fix everything. And surely it's also the case for some Trump supporters that after eight years of Obama, a bullying white man is exactly what is needed to restore things to their natural order. It is these qualities that lend Trumpism its faintly disturbing Face in the Crowd odor.
On domestic issues, his book is rather dull. Every chapter—on taxes, entitlements, health care, the social safety net—starts out with a few broadsides flung at Obama for being either incompetent, weak, or too left-wing and then moves on to policy prescriptions that have been standard conservative points for years. There would be four marginal tax rates under President Trump, the highest at just 15 percent, and that only on dollars earned above $1 million. On top of this he would reduce the corporate tax rate to zero. The national treasury would be depleted. But not to worry—working people would get to keep more of their hard-earned money, and they'd get to spend more years earning it, since Trump proposes raising the retirement age.

If Trump wins the nomination he will be among the least informed candidates for the presidency in a long time. He blusters his way through the (relatively few) substantive questions put to him in interviews and debates: he knows how to get things done; he has "lots of friends" among the (fill-in-the-blank, be it a nationality, such as Mexicans, or other groups, such as Muslims or members of Congress). And he's been subjected to little follow-up questioning: so far, to my knowledge, when Trump says, as he has frequently, about his fuzzy health care plan, that we won't leave people "dying in the streets," no one has pointedcomfirtabose aree the people whom Medicaid and emergency rooms are designed to tMedicaid

Liberal bullshit at its nastiest, God I hate the left, the far left, you know, the morons who believe bile like Whst is written above, keep working on making sure transgender people are comfortable in any bathroom, that will get the job done you fcukwits!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Canalman on February 24, 2016, 10:31:30 AM
Looks like Trump unless the GOP superdelegates trump him (pun intended) at the convention.

America in fairness has had  some longshots as president............ Truman, Ford (both not elected though first time) , Carter and Obama.

Have said it before and will say it again I just cannot see what people see in Hilary Clinton. Imo suffers a bit in the likeability/ awshucks/ everyday eddie stakes so important to a politician.

Fascinating stuff all the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 24, 2016, 10:41:08 AM
Quote from: Canalman on February 24, 2016, 10:31:30 AM
Looks like Trump unless the GOP superdelegates trump him (pun intended) at the convention.

America in fairness has had  some longshots as president............ Truman, Ford (both not elected though first time) , Carter and Obama.

Have said it before and will say it again I just cannot see what people see in Hilary Clinton. Imo suffers a bit in the likeability/ awshucks/ everyday eddie stakes so important to a politician.

Fascinating stuff all the same.

I think she's the best of a bad bunch even given how unlikable she is but she's more than qualified for the job.

Trump hasn't a f**king clue... even compared to Hilary, Cruz is as unlikable as you can get so I can't see either of those 2 getting in.

She has experience of politics and knows what she is talking about. Republicans hate her because she is a woman and can't really offer up any concrete reason she shouldn't be in the Whitehouse (even after 7 odd investigations into Benghazi which have thrown up nothing).

To be honest I'm enjoying watching stew's tailspin on here which is quite spectacular even for Trump standards. For his sake I hope she gets in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on February 24, 2016, 11:14:44 AM
The extent to which the hacks are talking up a contest for the GOP nomination is getting ridiculous. Trump is home and hosed, and that's true even if everyone else dropped out and threw their support behind Rubio (I won't even contemplate the absurdity of everyone else dropping out and throwing their support behind Cruz). Time to the media to make their peace with the both-sides-are-equally-bad narrative and embrace the reality of the monster they created.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 24, 2016, 11:16:42 AM
Jays, there goes poor ould Tommy's low profile. (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/ted-cruz-vows-to-deport-irish-immigrant-tommy-o-malley-1.2545668)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on February 24, 2016, 11:17:30 AM
Trump v Clinton? That's what we're looking at? Seriously?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on February 24, 2016, 11:23:39 AM
Ted saw a documentary recently on the scourge of the undocumented Irish and it stiffened his resolve:

(http://i.imgur.com/8QEHSD4.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2016, 11:38:40 AM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2016, 10:13:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2016, 07:43:34 PM
Trump
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2015/09/24/trump/
Two qualities more than any others have driven conservatism in our time. The first is cultural and racial resentment, felt by the mostly older and very white population the GOP increasingly represents—resentment against a fast-changing, more openly sexual America, as well as against dark-skinned immigrants, and White House occupants, and gay people and political correctness and the "moocher class" and all the rest. The second is what we might call spectacle—the unrelenting push toward a rhetorical style ever more gladiatorial and ever more outraged (and outrageous), driven initially by talk-radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh and now reproduced on websites, podcasts, and Twitter feeds too numerous to mention. There is a strong tendency, perfected over the years by Fox News, to cover and discuss domestic politics as a combination of war, sport, and entertainment all at once.
Well, Trump is conservative resentment and spectacle made flesh.
Certain assumptions about what a Republican politician could and could not get away with doing, assumptions shared by the entire political establishment—that you couldn't attack a war hero, say, or that a GOP candidate would never dare pick a fight with Fox—have been shattered. When he speaks, the media will listen and, given the ratings he ensures, will give him as much coverage as traffic numbers suggest they ought to.
Republican Party Chairman Reince Priebus is clearly terrified of him. Even Fox News head Roger Ailes—the effective cochairman of the Republican Party for a number of years now—treats him gingerly. Karl Rove wants desperately for the party establishment to block him. They all wish he would go away, even while they must know that they are responsible for Trump because they have spent many years creating an audience that was just waiting for someone like him to come along.
The three major nearer-term explanations for his success are pretty straightforward. The first is his celebrity. Trump hosts a network prime-time show, NBC's The Celebrity Apprentice, which has run for fourteen seasons (as The Apprentice for eight of those seasons). That is a long time to be on prime-time television. Seinfeld, one of the most popular television shows in history, lasted nine seasons.
The second reason is the surprising weakness of the rest of the GOP field.
The final cause of Trump's rise has been the intense attention given to him by the political media.
In the real, complicated world, solving one problem generally means creating another. But Trump's moral universe has no space for such disorder. All it takes is some resolve, titanium again being the key element:
I do deals—big deals—all the time. I know and work with all the toughest operators in the world of high-stakes global finance. These are hard-driving, vicious cutthroat financial killers, the kind of people who leave blood all over the boardroom table and fight to the bitter end to gain maximum advantage. And guess what? Those are exactly the kind of negotiators the United States needs, not these cream puff "diplomats" Obama sends around the globe to play patty cake with foreign governments. No, we need smart people with titanium spines and big brains who love America enough to fight fiercely for our interests.
That's the essence of it. His supporters seem to believe that he can do these things; or, even if they don't quite believe, they long for someone who can—who can tame OPEC and China and Iran as if world affairs could be made to be like a reality TV show. This is an understandable yearning to some extent, in an age in which the United States' ability to call the global shots is so much reduced from what it was fifty years ago. But it has a more sinister aspect, this wish for a strong man who can just fix everything. And surely it's also the case for some Trump supporters that after eight years of Obama, a bullying white man is exactly what is needed to restore things to their natural order. It is these qualities that lend Trumpism its faintly disturbing Face in the Crowd odor.
On domestic issues, his book is rather dull. Every chapter—on taxes, entitlements, health care, the social safety net—starts out with a few broadsides flung at Obama for being either incompetent, weak, or too left-wing and then moves on to policy prescriptions that have been standard conservative points for years. There would be four marginal tax rates under President Trump, the highest at just 15 percent, and that only on dollars earned above $1 million. On top of this he would reduce the corporate tax rate to zero. The national treasury would be depleted. But not to worry—working people would get to keep more of their hard-earned money, and they'd get to spend more years earning it, since Trump proposes raising the retirement age.

If Trump wins the nomination he will be among the least informed candidates for the presidency in a long time. He blusters his way through the (relatively few) substantive questions put to him in interviews and debates: he knows how to get things done; he has "lots of friends" among the (fill-in-the-blank, be it a nationality, such as Mexicans, or other groups, such as Muslims or members of Congress). And he's been subjected to little follow-up questioning: so far, to my knowledge, when Trump says, as he has frequently, about his fuzzy health care plan, that we won't leave people "dying in the streets," no one has pointedcomfirtabose aree the people whom Medicaid and emergency rooms are designed to tMedicaid

Liberal bullshit at its nastiest, God I hate the left, the far left, you know, the morons who believe bile like Whst is written above, keep working on making sure transgender people are comfortable in any bathroom, that will get the job done you fcukwits!

So what's wrong with the piece stew?

Are the Republicans NOT desperate to get rid of him?

Is he not extremely vague on policy detail?

Is he not heavy on boasting and "it's gonna be great!" bullshit?

As for "liberal bullshit", remember, you're the one continually posting about the Clintons' murdering people and Hillary just abandoning the Benghazi victims. You're the one who posted the spoof Bill Bennett piece on Obama as factual a few weeks back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GaillimhIarthair on February 24, 2016, 11:49:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 24, 2016, 11:17:30 AM
Trump v Clinton? That's what we're looking at? Seriously?
Its hard to believe in fairness - 320 milllion US Citizens and that is the best they can come up with on both sides!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on February 24, 2016, 12:18:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2016, 10:41:08 AM
I think she's the best of a bad bunch even given how unlikable she is but she's more than qualified for the job.

Trump hasn't a f**king clue... even compared to Hilary, Cruz is as unlikable as you can get so I can't see either of those 2 getting in.

She has experience of politics and knows what she is talking about. Republicans hate her because she is a woman and can't really offer up any concrete reason she shouldn't be in the Whitehouse (even after 7 odd investigations into Benghazi which have thrown up nothing).

To be honest I'm enjoying watching stew's tailspin on here which is quite spectacular even for Trump standards. For his sake I hope she gets in.

Clinton is a politician, not unlike Enda Kenny say; self serving to be sure, but not intrinsically dangerous.
I can't get Trump at all or why even half educated people support him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2016, 01:58:13 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on February 24, 2016, 11:49:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 24, 2016, 11:17:30 AM
Trump v Clinton? That's what we're looking at? Seriously?
Its hard to believe in fairness - 320 milllion US Citizens and that is the best they can come up with on both sides!

It's what you have to go through to get there.

Not everyone is willing to subject themselves to the ordeal, the scrutiny and the hype.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on February 24, 2016, 03:12:21 PM
Would it be fair to assume Clinton will win? Surely Americans would not be mad enough to have Trump in the WH?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2016, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 24, 2016, 03:12:21 PM
Would it be fair to assume Clinton will win? Surely Americans would not be mad enough to have Trump in the WH?

Depends how well she defends the email stuff.

Trump will go to town on her on that and Benghazi and Vince Foster and all the other stuff, real or imagined.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on February 24, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
Stew is wrong on the number of deaths Clinton is responsible for in Libya.

She is responsible for the deaths of thousands, the overthrow of Gadaffi and the destruction of a prosperous country,
the rise of ISIS in the country, and the influx of refugees into Europe, among others.

She is a warmonger of the highest order, and her love in with brutal dictators and despots makes her a sad excuse for a
human, never mind a woman.

But then again, those are the qualities a US President has required of late.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 24, 2016, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on February 24, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
Stew is wrong on the number of deaths Clinton is responsible for in Libya.

She is responsible for the deaths of thousands, the overthrow of Gadaffi and the destruction of a prosperous country,
the rise of ISIS in the country, and the influx of refugees into Europe, among others.

She is a warmonger of the highest order, and her love in with brutal dictators and despots makes her a sad excuse for a
human, never mind a woman.

But then again, those are the qualities a US President has required of late.

PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE ALL ON HER OWN... what a load of aul shite!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on February 24, 2016, 04:11:28 PM
Killary is a political prostitute that's how it is in the United States. Its a lobbyocracy not a democracy. If you are not an Israel first-er you don't stand a chance. Its pathetic and frightening at the same time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on February 24, 2016, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2016, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on February 24, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
Stew is wrong on the number of deaths Clinton is responsible for in Libya.

She is responsible for the deaths of thousands, the overthrow of Gadaffi and the destruction of a prosperous country,
the rise of ISIS in the country, and the influx of refugees into Europe, among others.

She is a warmonger of the highest order, and her love in with brutal dictators and despots makes her a sad excuse for a
human, never mind a woman.

But then again, those are the qualities a US President has required of late.

PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE ALL ON HER OWN... what a load of aul shite!!

I didn't say she was responsible for all of it on her own. Cameron, Sarkozy and Obama shoulder the blame as well,
but she was revelling in the death and destruction bestowed upon Libya.

And that is just one country in the Middle East that she played a major role in destabilising.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 24, 2016, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2016, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on February 24, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
Stew is wrong on the number of deaths Clinton is responsible for in Libya.

She is responsible for the deaths of thousands, the overthrow of Gadaffi and the destruction of a prosperous country,
the rise of ISIS in the country, and the influx of refugees into Europe, among others.

She is a warmonger of the highest order, and her love in with brutal dictators and despots makes her a sad excuse for a
human, never mind a woman.

But then again, those are the qualities a US President has required of late.




PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE ALL ON HER OWN... what a load of aul shite!!

Every word true, I was referring to the four Americans she killed by not giving them the security they needed when they asked for it.

Take a tablet son, he never said all on her own, you are an apologist for the scum of the earth, good luck with that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 24, 2016, 06:54:22 PM
I feel sorry for you stew... Watching Fox News and listening to Rush  Limbaugh has turned you into a scared xenophobe full of hate for 'liberals' Muslims and indeed anyone who disagrees with your warped outdated views.

Chill out and remember where you came from you sound like  a DUP politician... Son!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 25, 2016, 11:02:51 PM
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/07/30/donald-trump-is-completely-f**king-nuts-kim-jong-un/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/07/30/donald-trump-is-completely-f**king-nuts-kim-jong-un/)

"Donald Trump Is Completely f**king Nuts" – Kim Jong-un

THE leader of the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea Kim Jong-un has gone on record to express his concern for the American electorate stating that prospective Republican candidate Donald Trump is "completely f**king nuts".

"Holy shit, have you heard the stuff this guy comes out with?" Kim Jong-un said in a TV address to the people of North Korea, "he's like insulted the Mexican, Black, Asian, Irish and Italian communities in almost every speech. Plus, the dude totally cannot take a joke," the Supreme Leader added.

Trump's support in his bid for the Republican presidential nomination has swelled off the back of several frankly insane public appearances and remarks, with his last televised speech, in which he opened with "f**k you America", proving to be his most popular yet with an enraptured crowd hollering and cheering on Trump.

Such was Jong-un's concern for the people of America, the despot sent an email to the UN which raised some serious concerns. "Guys, I know you'll call me a worrier, but is there like a real chance this guy will get elected? He's completely f**king nuts, and seriously I know nuts when I see it".

"There's a parallel with his polling numbers alright, the more racist he gets, the more popular he seems to be," political commentator Ezra Klein told WWN.

Trump's rise in the polls has seen the Obama administration begin to hide all of America nuclear warheads, so that in the event of Trump coming to power, pressing the big red button will simply result in some helium balloons with 'yay you're the best Donald' emblazoned on them being released from the ceiling of the Oval Office.

Detractors of the billionaire have noted that Trump has been divorced 4 time, 3 times from his former wives and late last year he was also granted a divorce from reality.

Jong-un signed off his address to the North Korean people with a lament, in which he hoped Trump's presidential bid would falter as "there is a real danger America will get the leader it deserves".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2016, 02:35:15 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on February 24, 2016, 04:11:28 PM
Killary is a political prostitute that's how it is in the United States. Its a lobbyocracy not a democracy. If you are not an Israel first-er you don't stand a chance. Its pathetic and frightening at the same time.

The love affair with Israel is starting to fray a little. Young secular jews are becoming less pro-Israel than they used to be.
Netanyahu and Obama don't like one another personally, while Kerry has criticized Israel over the settlements, which would have been unheard of not long ago. Even some right wingers concerned about government spending have questioned all the foreign aid going to Israel, but on the other side the religious wing is as fanatical in their support as ever, and even Trump had to walk back comments he made when he had the temerity to suggest that he would adopt a neutral position in trying to facilitate a settlement as president (and on the Dem side, Chuck Shumer, about as strong a supporter of Israel as there is, will be the next minority or majority leader of the Senate).

Very tiny steps maybe, and the lunacy they've unleashed in the middle east means the US will remain closely entwined with Israel (and the Saudis and the rest too), but its a start.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2016, 03:06:40 AM
Another mass shooting today in Kansas. At least 4 dead, 20 injured.

Just checked the cable news channels at the top of the hour:

CNN - GOP debate
Fox - Hannity talking about Trump
MSNBC - interview with Sanders

Not a word. Another day another mass murder. Not newsworthy any more unless Muslims do it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 26, 2016, 04:50:52 AM
Probably a white guy killing other white people not sensational enough,
If it was a cop shooting a black guy or white guy shooting minority's the media would be all over it that's how it goes these days ,of course it should be a headline story but it's for the opposite reason that you are implying .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2016, 09:02:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2016, 06:54:22 PM
I feel sorry for you stew... Watching Fox News and listening to Rush  Limbaugh has turned you into a scared xenophobe full of hate for 'liberals' Muslims and indeed anyone who disagrees with your warped outdated views.

Chill out and remember where you came from you sound like  a DUP politician... Son!


I do not hate Muslims and I never listen to Limbaugh, in go troll elsewhere,  theres a good lad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2016, 09:15:39 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2016, 06:54:22 PM
I feel sorry for you stew... Watching Fox News and listening to Rush  Limbaugh has turned you into a scared xenophobe full of hate for 'liberals' Muslims and indeed anyone who disagrees with your warped outdated views.

Chill out and remember where you came from you sound like  a DUP politician... Son!

Like you i came from the womb kid ) As for the rest of your ignorant bile I will simply say, take two tablets son, one aint. Getting the job done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2016, 09:19:12 AM
I am surprised Stew still supports the GOP. There is no party for regular conservatives. The GOP is a prisoner of the Koch brothers. Middle class salaries are stagnant. 1% salaries are booming.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on February 26, 2016, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2016, 09:19:12 AM
I am surprised Stew still supports the GOP. There is no party for regular conservatives. The GOP is a prisoner of the Koch brothers. Middle class salaries are stagnant. 1% salaries are booming.

The wacky thing about modern conservatism is how deeply radical it is. Robespierre would be agog at the extent to which the GOP want to change things. Go figure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2016, 11:25:58 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 26, 2016, 04:50:52 AM
Probably a white guy killing other white people not sensational enough,
If it was a cop shooting a black guy or white guy shooting minority's the media would be all over it that's how it goes these days ,of course it should be a headline story but it's for the opposite reason that you are implying .

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying straight out that it is a fatigue thing, with these murders happening so often that people are accepting them and tuning them out unless something very unusual is involved, such as the ISIS sympathizers (and a woman) in San Bernadino. Nothing to do with black or white either. All to do with mundane routine. San Bernadino would probably have got some headlines due to the sheer number killed, but the Muslim terrorism aspect made all hell break loose. But everyday, background level mass murders are no longer noteworthy, especially with a presidential election going on. The one in Kalamazoo got a bit of coverage due to the completely bizarre aspect of an Uber driver killing random strangers between fares, as well as it happening on the weekend. Otherwise mass murders are generally met with a shrug. People are just used to it and resigned to it now. The news people don't consider them headline stuff any more. The politicians won't/can't do anything to address it and can't even begin to agree on might help address it. Sandy Hook was a watershed. It is now a fact of life in the US.

Cops killing unarmed black people went on for decades. The only reason it became a sensation was the sudden advent of mobile phone and police car video footage, which often directly contradicted the police accounts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2016, 06:20:39 PM
Romney's 2012 campaign manager lays out what he believe it will take to beat Trump and why its absolutely necessary (sounds like Rubio started to put this advice into action last night):

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/25/we-can-still-beat-donald-trump-and-here-s-how.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/25/we-can-still-beat-donald-trump-and-here-s-how.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 26, 2016, 09:16:27 PM
Well, one maverick loud-mouthed Republican (Christie) has just endorsed another (Trump).  Is this a play for VP?

Funny since Christie jailed Trump's son-in-law's father and Trump has said that Christie knew all about the closing of the George Washington Bridge.  Strange how the party of moral rectitude pairs such curious bedfellows.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2016, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 26, 2016, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2016, 09:19:12 AM
I am surprised Stew still supports the GOP. There is no party for regular conservatives. The GOP is a prisoner of the Koch brothers. Middle class salaries are stagnant. 1% salaries are booming.

The wacky thing about modern conservatism is how deeply radical it is. Robespierre would be agog at the extent to which the GOP want to change things. Go figure.
GOP ideology is a mixture of evangelical and Koch and has only the most tenuous link to reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2016, 08:03:16 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 26, 2016, 09:16:27 PM
Well, one maverick loud-mouthed Republican (Christie) has just endorsed another (Trump).  Is this a play for VP?

Funny since Christie jailed Trump's son-in-law's father and Trump has said that Christie knew all about the closing of the George Washington Bridge.  Strange how the party of moral rectitude pairs such curious bedfellows.

Nah, Christie is probably angling for AG, something with some real power. Plus, there's no way the ticket will be two loudmouth bullies from the NYC area.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 08:58:17 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 26, 2016, 09:16:27 PM
Well, one maverick loud-mouthed Republican (Christie) has just endorsed another (Trump).  Is this a play for VP?

Funny since Christie jailed Trump's son-in-law's father and Trump has said that Christie knew all about the closing of the George Washington Bridge.  Strange how the party of moral rectitude pairs such curious bedfellows.
the top GOP  people are either thugs (Trump,  Christie) or fruitcakes (Rubio, Cruz)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 27, 2016, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 26, 2016, 09:16:27 PM
Well, one maverick loud-mouthed Republican (Christie) has just endorsed another (Trump).  Is this a play for VP?

Funny since Christie jailed Trump's son-in-law's father and Trump has said that Christie knew all about the closing of the George Washington Bridge.  Strange how the party of moral rectitude pairs such curious bedfellows.

Trump is one of your own orals and believe me when I tell you that your party is run by gangsters that are destroying the US of A, Obamanation is an absolute disgrace to the office, unfit to lead and your main political figure could yet do jail time for the lies she spewed about Benghazi, the liberals are worse, in my opinion than the GOP and that takes some doing.

Your problem is just like that of many democrats, you see no good whatsoever in any conservative initiative and you are a slave to your union, I was joking when I said I could see you voting republican, you simply follow the libtard agenda and you sell your soul to endorse the shrew that is Killory, if you would vote for a kn**ker like that you have no conscience!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 27, 2016, 12:20:47 PM
Quote from: stew on February 27, 2016, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 26, 2016, 09:16:27 PM
Well, one maverick loud-mouthed Republican (Christie) has just endorsed another (Trump).  Is this a play for VP?

Funny since Christie jailed Trump's son-in-law's father and Trump has said that Christie knew all about the closing of the George Washington Bridge.  Strange how the party of moral rectitude pairs such curious bedfellows.

Trump is one of your own orals and believe me when I tell you that your party is run by gangsters that are destroying the US of A, Obamanation is an absolute disgrace to the office, unfit to lead and your main political figure could yet do jail time for the lies she spewed about Benghazi, the liberals are worse, in my opinion than the GOP and that takes some doing.

Your problem is just like that of many democrats, you see no good whatsoever in any conservative initiative and you are a slave to your union, I was joking when I said I could see you voting republican, you simply follow the libtard agenda and you sell your soul to endorse the shrew that is Killory, if you would vote for a kn**ker like that you have no conscience!

Good to see some independent thought!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 27, 2016, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2016, 09:19:12 AM
I am surprised Stew still supports the GOP. There is no party for regular conservatives. The GOP is a prisoner of the Koch brothers. Middle class salaries are stagnant. 1% salaries are booming.

I would prefer a social liberal/fiscal conservative, I hate a deep and abiding hatred of Clinton, I think she is a lying, conceited **** and I hold her in the same esteem I held Thatcher in.

Unlike many of the liberals on here I can give credit were credit is due to democrats even though I am sick of the disgraceful way they govern, if you are a liberal and absolutely convinced the republicans have no good in them you are an idiot, simple as that, the US needs men and women from both parties to work together and get shit done, both parties are a disgrace at the moment and Obama is mire worried about his legacy Han he us working to better the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 27, 2016, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 08:58:17 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 26, 2016, 09:16:27 PM
Well, one maverick loud-mouthed Republican (Christie) has just endorsed another (Trump).  Is this a play for VP?

Funny since Christie jailed Trump's son-in-law's father and Trump has said that Christie knew all about the closing of the George Washington Bridge.  Strange how the party of moral rectitude pairs such curious bedfellows.
the top GOP  people are either thugs (Trump,  Christie) or fruitcakes (Rubio, Cruz)

And the flip side is you have on the left an aged communist who does not have the balls to attack the other principal, you know, the lying sack of shite that is under review for the disgraceful way she handled top secret and higher than top secret emails there is also the fact she let four Americans die because she ignored hundreds of messages begging for extra security, she is knee deep in the corruption in her husbands foundation, I could go on and on but what's the point,  bottom line is America is fuckef and if she is elected I will move away from the USA permanently, I would not live in a country run by that unethical nsmby pamby piece of crap.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 01:37:36 PM
Stew

Sanders would be Labour party in Ireland. I agree about Clinton. She is a vile piece of work. I am sure there are lots of decent people in the GOP at local level but the people at the top are puppets of the Koch brothers. The US needs a much stronger opposition.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 27, 2016, 02:10:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 01:37:36 PM
Stew

Sanders would be Labour party in Ireland. I agree about Clinton. She is a vile piece of work. I am sure there are lots of decent people in the GOP at local level but the people

at the top are puppets of the Koch brothers. The US needs a much stronger opposition.

Sanders is easily the best human being running, it is not even close, that said as well intended as he is he is dangerously far to the left and I feel strongly that he would offer nothing in terms of economic growth, national security and the cancer that is political correctness will spread, I mean nowadays anyone who has anything negative about to say about the president, black lives matter, Muslim extremists or anything good to say about cops is immediately dubbed a racist, that is not only wrong it is immoral.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Stew
the only way to get economic growth going again is to give blue collar workers serious pay rises. The ultra rich now earn one in every 4 dollars and it is slowly killing the economy. The Fed can't generate 2% inflation. Trump is picking up on blue collar frustration but he has no solutions. Neither do the other 2 clowns.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 27, 2016, 02:54:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Stew
the only way to get economic growth going again is to give blue collar workers serious pay rises. The ultra rich now earn one in every 4 dollars and it is slowly killing the economy. The Fed can't generate 2% inflation. Trump is picking up on blue collar frustration but he has no solutions. Neither do the other 2 clowns.


Minimum wage should be $15.00, the super rich should be taxed accordingly and companies that move joBS en  mass out of the country should be penalized heavily.

People who attain third level educations should be compensated as such and above all the middle class need to be taken care of in terms of growth and earnings.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2016, 04:29:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 27, 2016, 02:54:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Stew
the only way to get economic growth going again is to give blue collar workers serious pay rises. The ultra rich now earn one in every 4 dollars and it is slowly killing the economy. The Fed can't generate 2% inflation. Trump is picking up on blue collar frustration but he has no solutions. Neither do the other 2 clowns.


Minimum wage should be $15.00, the super rich should be taxed accordingly and companies that move joBS en  mass out of the country should be penalized heavily.

People who attain third level educations should be compensated as such and above all the middle class need to be taken care of in terms of growth and earnings.

You do realize the only people espousing policies such as you mention are Democrats? That would get you branded a Marxist commie in a GOP setting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on February 27, 2016, 04:32:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2016, 04:29:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 27, 2016, 02:54:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Stew
the only way to get economic growth going again is to give blue collar workers serious pay rises. The ultra rich now earn one in every 4 dollars and it is slowly killing the economy. The Fed can't generate 2% inflation. Trump is picking up on blue collar frustration but he has no solutions. Neither do the other 2 clowns.


Minimum wage should be $15.00, the super rich should be taxed accordingly and companies that move joBS en  mass out of the country should be penalized heavily.

People who attain third level educations should be compensated as such and above all the middle class need to be taken care of in terms of growth and earnings.

You do realize the only people espousing policies such as you mention are Democrats? That would get you branded a Marxist commie in a GOP setting.

It makes no sense.

The first US Neo-Liberal was Ronald Reagan.

US politics is about shouting as loudly as possible, and making sure no one is listening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on February 27, 2016, 04:45:39 PM
QuoteI hate a deep and abiding hatred of Clinton, I think she is a lying, conceited **** and I hold her in the same esteem I held Thatcher in.

Well at least you told us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 28, 2016, 01:31:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2016, 04:29:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 27, 2016, 02:54:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Stew
the only way to get economic growth going again is to give blue collar workers serious pay rises. The ultra rich now earn one in every 4 dollars and it is slowly killing the economy. The Fed can't generate 2% inflation. Trump is picking up on blue collar frustration but he has no solutions. Neither do the other 2 clowns.


Minimum wage should be $15.00, the super rich should be taxed accordingly and companies that move joBS en  mass out of the country should be penalized heavily.

People who attain third level educations should be compensated as such and above all the middle class need to be taken care of in terms of growth and earnings.

You do realize the only people espousing policies such as you mention are Democrats? That would get you branded a Marxist commie in a GOP setting.

I don't give a shite about the GOP, there are things I agree with the democrats on, and if wanting people who work to get a wage they can support their family on makes me a card carrying communist then so be it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2016, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: stew on February 27, 2016, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2016, 09:19:12 AM
I am surprised Stew still supports the GOP. There is no party for regular conservatives. The GOP is a prisoner of the Koch brothers. Middle class salaries are stagnant. 1% salaries are booming.

I would prefer a social liberal/fiscal conservative, I hate a deep and abiding hatred of Clinton, I think she is a lying, conceited **** and I hold her in the same esteem I held Thatcher in.

Unlike many of the liberals on here I can give credit were credit is due to democrats even though I am sick of the disgraceful way they govern, if you are a liberal and absolutely convinced the republicans have no good in them you are an idiot, simple as that, the US needs men and women from both parties to work together and get shit done, both parties are a disgrace at the moment and Obama is mire worried about his legacy Han he us working to better the country.

Either Hillary or Bloomberg, if he throws his hat in the ring, should be your preferred choice then so, if policy trumps perceived personality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 28, 2016, 01:47:40 PM
The problem is Americans have been sold the dream of being wealthy since they were children.

It is an unachievable pipe dream for the majority.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2016, 04:12:31 PM
From the LA Times:

What a Donald Trump Presidency Might Look Like

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-trump-presidency-20160228-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-trump-presidency-20160228-story.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2016, 05:58:59 PM
FFS Trump. Its David Duke and the Klan. Just denounce him and his supporters!

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/28/donald-trump-declines-to-disavow-david-duke/ (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/28/donald-trump-declines-to-disavow-david-duke/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 28, 2016, 06:34:53 PM
The jerk reposts a tweet quoting Il Duce Mussolini, then disavows knowledge of white supremacy, and still thinks he's suitable to be President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 28, 2016, 06:55:16 PM
Trump on CNN Sunday morning with Jake Tapper on the KKK and David Duke:

Trump: You wouldn't want me to condemn a group I know nothing about. I'd have to look. If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them, and certainly I would disavow if I thought that there was something wrong.

Tapper: The Ku Klux Klan ...

Trump: But you may have some groups in there that are totally fine, and it would be very unfair. So, give me a list of groups and I'll let you know.

Tapper: I'm just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here but ...

Trump: I don't know. Honestly I don't know anything about David Duke.

All the more strange since in 2000 Trump declined a presidential bid for the Reform Party because he didn't want to be associated with "a Klansman, Mr. Duke."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on February 29, 2016, 09:36:35 AM
I don't think Trump holds a candle for the KKK. But he thinks the people who vote for him, and have propelled him this far, hold a candle for the KKK. It's a sensible calculation on his part.

As we near the moment when he is crowned King Donald I of the GOP, let us pause to anticipate the contortions that the They Are Both As Bad As Each Other Brigade will go through to stay on the right (so to speak) side of the line. By the time they're done Hillary Clinton will have sunk the Lusitania and killed the Lindbergh baby.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 29, 2016, 09:45:23 AM
 Trump claims he doesn't know who David Duke is, fair enough, except he does,  this is a really interesting development, this life long liberal seems to self implode just as it looks like it is going to be the man who will be running against Clinton ( unless she is locked up that is )

The liberals have pulled of a masterstroke, they have bought the super delection.votes they need and they have their man causing complete disarray in the republican party.

Maybe a bus will take care of killory, if not and the FBI fail to do their job, Strapon will absolutely destroy her liberal colleague in the general election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 29, 2016, 11:21:49 AM
Quote from: stew on February 29, 2016, 09:45:23 AM
Trump claims he doesn't know who David Duke is, fair enough, except he does,  this is a really interesting development, this life long liberal seems to self implode just as it looks like it is going to be the man who will be running against Clinton ( unless she is locked up that is )

The liberals have pulled of a masterstroke, they have bought the super delection.votes they need and they have their man causing complete disarray in the republican party.

Maybe a bus will take care of killory, if not and the FBI fail to do their job, Strapon will absolutely destroy her liberal colleague in the general election.

"Strapon"??  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 29, 2016, 11:28:55 AM
Quote from: deiseach on February 29, 2016, 09:36:35 AM
I don't think Trump holds a candle for the KKK. But he thinks the people who vote for him, and have propelled him this far, hold a candle for the KKK. It's a sensible calculation on his part.

As we near the moment when he is crowned King Donald I of the GOP, let us pause to anticipate the contortions that the They Are Both As Bad As Each Other Brigade will go through to stay on the right (so to speak) side of the line. By the time they're done Hillary Clinton will have sunk the Lusitania and killed the Lindbergh baby.

To me, the thing this illustrates is that maybe Trump isn't quite as fast on his feet as he would claim. I mean, it should be bleeding obvious that Duke is someone to be disavowed, emphatically, every time, no matter what the forum, but he got in a muddle, trying to weigh the pros and cons. He did disavow him afterwards, presumably once his handlers got hold of him. That, together with his complete lack of policy detail (instead resorting, every time, to personal insults) during debates, does not bode well for him come debate time in the general election, although one would presume that he would have some level of detail down by then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on February 29, 2016, 01:23:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 27, 2016, 04:32:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2016, 04:29:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 27, 2016, 02:54:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Stew
the only way to get economic growth going again is to give blue collar workers serious pay rises. The ultra rich now earn one in every 4 dollars and it is slowly killing the economy. The Fed can't generate 2% inflation. Trump is picking up on blue collar frustration but he has no solutions. Neither do the other 2 clowns.


Minimum wage should be $15.00, the super rich should be taxed accordingly and companies that move joBS en  mass out of the country should be penalized heavily.

People who attain third level educations should be compensated as such and above all the middle class need to be taken care of in terms of growth and earnings.

You do realize the only people espousing policies such as you mention are Democrats? That would get you branded a Marxist commie in a GOP setting.

It makes no sense.

The first US Neo-Liberal was Ronald Reagan.

US politics is about shouting as loudly as possible, and making sure no one is listening.

I love this line!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 29, 2016, 03:04:56 PM
GOP establishment getting VERY worried...

Stuart Stevens, Romney's campaign manager, on Trump, in the aftermath of the David Duke issue:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/a-vote-for-donald-trump-is-a-vote-for-bigotry.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/a-vote-for-donald-trump-is-a-vote-for-bigotry.html)

A Vote for Donald Trump Is a Vote for Bigotry

There's winning. And then there's supporting a bigot. If the GOP lines up behind Trump, it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously anymore.
Political consulting and morality go together about as well as that famous fish and bicycle. Lawyers have constructed a neat paradigm obligating them to handle any and all clients, a very convenient way to maintain pretext of high road while taking any road possible. So it is with political consultants. For years when asked my positions on issues, my standard response has been, "I don't have positions, I have clients."
Along the way I've been accused of not believing in anything but winning, which I always took as a compliment. The only reason I or any political consultant should be hired is to help a client win. We're not there to remind a candidate of his deeply held positions or to solve the problems of the world. We are there for one purpose: to do everything possible to win an election. We're the hammer, votes are the nail.
But to my annoyance, I can't take that position in the 2016 election. I'd like to blame it on Donald Trump, but that would be like be blaming a dog for barking. No, honesty demands the admission that Trump would not be important if he were not winning. And he's winning.

For months when pressed on Trump and what he meant for the Republican Party, I've been giving a stock answer that struck me as both true and easy: If we agree that Trump winning the Republican nomination means something, we have to agree that his not winning means something. That worked well enough and had the added bonus of being a setup—I hoped—for an "I told you so moment" when Trump didn't win.
After Iowa, that answer was looking pretty good, and it seemed easy enough to defeat Trump when his image of "winner" had been damaged. But to my utter astonishment, none of the Republican campaigns focused on what was the screamingly obvious mandate of the moment: defeat Trump. Instead there was this mass hysteria of candidates fighting fiercely to determine what order the losers could finish behind Trump.

Jeb Bush took on Trump more than any candidate but he was, bizarrely, not backed with sufficient force by the huge weaponry of his Right to Rise super PAC. Instead of scrambling to put the best tanks into the field to face the enemy's armor, Right to Rise spent more than $100 million in the care and feeding of cavalry horses. Predictably, once the shooting started, they were slaughtered.
So now Trump has won three of the four latest contests and is poised to keep winning until he has enough delegates to secure the Republican nomination. There is still some hope that he can be stopped short of the 1,236 delegates needed to win on the first ballot, but realistically this requires the three major candidates facing Trump—Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and John Kasich—to win their home states between now and March 16. It looks like Cruz will do so on Tuesday, but at the moment Rubio is considerably behind Trump in Florida, and Kasich and Trump are basically tied in Ohio.
Can it happen? Sure. Will it? Well, I hope so. (And anytime political consultants use phrases like "I hope so," it is like a doctor looking at an x-ray and saying, "That shadow might be an imaging error." Don't count on it.)

On Sunday, Feb. 28, the frontrunner for the Republican nomination was unable to answer a question about renouncing David Duke and white supremacists. "I don't know anything about David Duke," Trump said, which places the candidate in the unenviable position that his defenders could claim he wasn't a bigot but merely the dumbest man in America. Jake Tapper of CNN continued to push Trump, and he continued to refuse to denounce Duke and white supremacists. Only later in the day did Trump tweet out that, gee, he didn't really like Duke.
This latest is more than utterly disgusting. It really makes it impossible to pretend that Trump is not only an idiot but also a racist idiot. Yes, there were plenty of reasons to believe this before, with his rants about Mexican "rapists" and his prideful embrace of running for president in the Key of Hate. This is a man who attacked the pope. But even if Trump says he has never asked God for forgiveness—for his sake, let's hope that's another Trump lie—Americans are forgiving and there is always the tendency to give people another chance to correct mistakes.

But we shouldn't be giving Trump any more room for doubt. He's proven he's a uniquely ugly figure to emerge in American political history. He's threatened citizens who oppose him, like his outburst against the Ricketts family, who have contributed to a super PAC opposing him. He ended the week ranting about rewriting libel laws and threatening Amazon because founder Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post and it is covering Trump. Fortunately Bezos is vastly wealthier than Trump and can buy and sell him a dozen times over. In Trump's value system, Bezos is much the better man. Actually that's one thing Trump probably has right.

Across the spectrum, smart and troubled voices on the center-right spectrum are articulating why they will not support Trump and why Republicans must reject the menace. Former George W. Bush speechwriter Pete Wehner, one of the most eloquent voices, wrote in The New York Times: "Mr. Trump's virulent combination of ignorance, emotional instability, demagogy, solipsism and vindictiveness would do more than result in a failed presidency; it could very well lead to national catastrophe."
He's right, of course. Every Republican, from elected officials to super volunteers to leaders of the party, must ask themselves what it will mean for the GOP and, vastly more important, the country to play a role enabling this hateful man. Hillary Clinton will likely crush him, but that's really not the point. There is something at stake here larger than one election. To support Trump is to support the hate and racism he embodies. That is simply an intolerable moral position for any political party.

If Trump wins the nomination, politicians who support him will be acquiescing to, if not actively aiding, his hate. Donors, including the corporate donors, whom every convention depends on for support, cannot support a man with Trump's unbalanced, bigoted views. How can any corporation justify to its board that it donated funds to support a bigot?
If the Republican Party stands for nothing but winning elections, it deserves to lose. It will with Trump. But on the day after the election, the pain will not be just that the White House, the Senate, and possibly the House of Representatives are now in Democratic hands.
No, the greatest pain will be from the shame of pretending that an evil man was not evil and a hater really didn't mean what he said. We hold elections every two years, and there is always the chance to regain lost offices. But there is no mechanism to regain one's dignity and sense of decency once squandered.
That defeat is permanent. To support Trump is to support a bigot. It's really that simple.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 29, 2016, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 03:04:56 PM
GOP establishment getting VERY worried...

Stuart Stevens, Romney's campaign manager, on Trump, in the aftermath of the David Duke issue:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/a-vote-for-donald-trump-is-a-vote-for-bigotry.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/a-vote-for-donald-trump-is-a-vote-for-bigotry.html)

A Vote for Donald Trump Is a Vote for Bigotry

There's winning. And then there's supporting a bigot. If the GOP lines up behind Trump, it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously anymore.
Political consulting and morality go together about as well as that famous fish and bicycle. Lawyers have constructed a neat paradigm obligating them to handle any and all clients, a very convenient way to maintain pretext of high road while taking any road possible. So it is with political consultants. For years when asked my positions on issues, my standard response has been, "I don't have positions, I have clients."
Along the way I've been accused of not believing in anything but winning, which I always took as a compliment. The only reason I or any political consultant should be hired is to help a client win. We're not there to remind a candidate of his deeply held positions or to solve the problems of the world. We are there for one purpose: to do everything possible to win an election. We're the hammer, votes are the nail.
But to my annoyance, I can't take that position in the 2016 election. I'd like to blame it on Donald Trump, but that would be like be blaming a dog for barking. No, honesty demands the admission that Trump would not be important if he were not winning. And he's winning.

For months when pressed on Trump and what he meant for the Republican Party, I've been giving a stock answer that struck me as both true and easy: If we agree that Trump winning the Republican nomination means something, we have to agree that his not winning means something. That worked well enough and had the added bonus of being a setup—I hoped—for an "I told you so moment" when Trump didn't win.
After Iowa, that answer was looking pretty good, and it seemed easy enough to defeat Trump when his image of "winner" had been damaged. But to my utter astonishment, none of the Republican campaigns focused on what was the screamingly obvious mandate of the moment: defeat Trump. Instead there was this mass hysteria of candidates fighting fiercely to determine what order the losers could finish behind Trump.

Jeb Bush took on Trump more than any candidate but he was, bizarrely, not backed with sufficient force by the huge weaponry of his Right to Rise super PAC. Instead of scrambling to put the best tanks into the field to face the enemy's armor, Right to Rise spent more than $100 million in the care and feeding of cavalry horses. Predictably, once the shooting started, they were slaughtered.
So now Trump has won three of the four latest contests and is poised to keep winning until he has enough delegates to secure the Republican nomination. There is still some hope that he can be stopped short of the 1,236 delegates needed to win on the first ballot, but realistically this requires the three major candidates facing Trump—Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and John Kasich—to win their home states between now and March 16. It looks like Cruz will do so on Tuesday, but at the moment Rubio is considerably behind Trump in Florida, and Kasich and Trump are basically tied in Ohio.
Can it happen? Sure. Will it? Well, I hope so. (And anytime political consultants use phrases like "I hope so," it is like a doctor looking at an x-ray and saying, "That shadow might be an imaging error." Don't count on it.)

On Sunday, Feb. 28, the frontrunner for the Republican nomination was unable to answer a question about renouncing David Duke and white supremacists. "I don't know anything about David Duke," Trump said, which places the candidate in the unenviable position that his defenders could claim he wasn't a bigot but merely the dumbest man in America. Jake Tapper of CNN continued to push Trump, and he continued to refuse to denounce Duke and white supremacists. Only later in the day did Trump tweet out that, gee, he didn't really like Duke.
This latest is more than utterly disgusting. It really makes it impossible to pretend that Trump is not only an idiot but also a racist idiot. Yes, there were plenty of reasons to believe this before, with his rants about Mexican "rapists" and his prideful embrace of running for president in the Key of Hate. This is a man who attacked the pope. But even if Trump says he has never asked God for forgiveness—for his sake, let's hope that's another Trump lie—Americans are forgiving and there is always the tendency to give people another chance to correct mistakes.

But we shouldn't be giving Trump any more room for doubt. He's proven he's a uniquely ugly figure to emerge in American political history. He's threatened citizens who oppose him, like his outburst against the Ricketts family, who have contributed to a super PAC opposing him. He ended the week ranting about rewriting libel laws and threatening Amazon because founder Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post and it is covering Trump. Fortunately Bezos is vastly wealthier than Trump and can buy and sell him a dozen times over. In Trump's value system, Bezos is much the better man. Actually that's one thing Trump probably has right.

Across the spectrum, smart and troubled voices on the center-right spectrum are articulating why they will not support Trump and why Republicans must reject the menace. Former George W. Bush speechwriter Pete Wehner, one of the most eloquent voices, wrote in The New York Times: "Mr. Trump's virulent combination of ignorance, emotional instability, demagogy, solipsism and vindictiveness would do more than result in a failed presidency; it could very well lead to national catastrophe."
He's right, of course. Every Republican, from elected officials to super volunteers to leaders of the party, must ask themselves what it will mean for the GOP and, vastly more important, the country to play a role enabling this hateful man. Hillary Clinton will likely crush him, but that's really not the point. There is something at stake here larger than one election. To support Trump is to support the hate and racism he embodies. That is simply an intolerable moral position for any political party.

If Trump wins the nomination, politicians who support him will be acquiescing to, if not actively aiding, his hate. Donors, including the corporate donors, whom every convention depends on for support, cannot support a man with Trump's unbalanced, bigoted views. How can any corporation justify to its board that it donated funds to support a bigot?
If the Republican Party stands for nothing but winning elections, it deserves to lose. It will with Trump. But on the day after the election, the pain will not be just that the White House, the Senate, and possibly the House of Representatives are now in Democratic hands.
No, the greatest pain will be from the shame of pretending that an evil man was not evil and a hater really didn't mean what he said. We hold elections every two years, and there is always the chance to regain lost offices. But there is no mechanism to regain one's dignity and sense of decency once squandered.
That defeat is permanent. To support Trump is to support a bigot. It's really that simple.

What does a vote for Clinton mean then?

I dont give a shite what Rooney or his lackey think of Trump, why do they not give their opinion on killory?

I couldn't vote for either of them if I had a vote to be honest, both are despicable in their own ways and both are unfit for the role of President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on February 29, 2016, 03:55:56 PM
I can't point to anyone right now who would do a better job than Obama. And I have no allegiance to the man at all - I dislike him a lot!

Trump is the worst candidate I've ever seen  - I think he is a democrat plant but either way he is a bigot and is horrible for any country
Clinton is a disaster - her flaws and faults have been pointed out and I don't need to repeat them - bad news for America if she is in office
Bernie brings a whole new mess and set of problems with his ideologies on socialism
and there is nobody left on the Republican side I could really vote for.... the place is couped
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 29, 2016, 04:02:15 PM
Quote from: stew on February 29, 2016, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 03:04:56 PM
GOP establishment getting VERY worried...

Stuart Stevens, Romney's campaign manager, on Trump, in the aftermath of the David Duke issue:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/a-vote-for-donald-trump-is-a-vote-for-bigotry.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/a-vote-for-donald-trump-is-a-vote-for-bigotry.html)

A Vote for Donald Trump Is a Vote for Bigotry

There's winning. And then there's supporting a bigot. If the GOP lines up behind Trump, it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously anymore.
Political consulting and morality go together about as well as that famous fish and bicycle. Lawyers have constructed a neat paradigm obligating them to handle any and all clients, a very convenient way to maintain pretext of high road while taking any road possible. So it is with political consultants. For years when asked my positions on issues, my standard response has been, "I don't have positions, I have clients."
Along the way I've been accused of not believing in anything but winning, which I always took as a compliment. The only reason I or any political consultant should be hired is to help a client win. We're not there to remind a candidate of his deeply held positions or to solve the problems of the world. We are there for one purpose: to do everything possible to win an election. We're the hammer, votes are the nail.
But to my annoyance, I can't take that position in the 2016 election. I'd like to blame it on Donald Trump, but that would be like be blaming a dog for barking. No, honesty demands the admission that Trump would not be important if he were not winning. And he's winning.

For months when pressed on Trump and what he meant for the Republican Party, I've been giving a stock answer that struck me as both true and easy: If we agree that Trump winning the Republican nomination means something, we have to agree that his not winning means something. That worked well enough and had the added bonus of being a setup—I hoped—for an "I told you so moment" when Trump didn't win.
After Iowa, that answer was looking pretty good, and it seemed easy enough to defeat Trump when his image of "winner" had been damaged. But to my utter astonishment, none of the Republican campaigns focused on what was the screamingly obvious mandate of the moment: defeat Trump. Instead there was this mass hysteria of candidates fighting fiercely to determine what order the losers could finish behind Trump.

Jeb Bush took on Trump more than any candidate but he was, bizarrely, not backed with sufficient force by the huge weaponry of his Right to Rise super PAC. Instead of scrambling to put the best tanks into the field to face the enemy's armor, Right to Rise spent more than $100 million in the care and feeding of cavalry horses. Predictably, once the shooting started, they were slaughtered.
So now Trump has won three of the four latest contests and is poised to keep winning until he has enough delegates to secure the Republican nomination. There is still some hope that he can be stopped short of the 1,236 delegates needed to win on the first ballot, but realistically this requires the three major candidates facing Trump—Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and John Kasich—to win their home states between now and March 16. It looks like Cruz will do so on Tuesday, but at the moment Rubio is considerably behind Trump in Florida, and Kasich and Trump are basically tied in Ohio.
Can it happen? Sure. Will it? Well, I hope so. (And anytime political consultants use phrases like "I hope so," it is like a doctor looking at an x-ray and saying, "That shadow might be an imaging error." Don't count on it.)

On Sunday, Feb. 28, the frontrunner for the Republican nomination was unable to answer a question about renouncing David Duke and white supremacists. "I don't know anything about David Duke," Trump said, which places the candidate in the unenviable position that his defenders could claim he wasn't a bigot but merely the dumbest man in America. Jake Tapper of CNN continued to push Trump, and he continued to refuse to denounce Duke and white supremacists. Only later in the day did Trump tweet out that, gee, he didn't really like Duke.
This latest is more than utterly disgusting. It really makes it impossible to pretend that Trump is not only an idiot but also a racist idiot. Yes, there were plenty of reasons to believe this before, with his rants about Mexican "rapists" and his prideful embrace of running for president in the Key of Hate. This is a man who attacked the pope. But even if Trump says he has never asked God for forgiveness—for his sake, let's hope that's another Trump lie—Americans are forgiving and there is always the tendency to give people another chance to correct mistakes.

But we shouldn't be giving Trump any more room for doubt. He's proven he's a uniquely ugly figure to emerge in American political history. He's threatened citizens who oppose him, like his outburst against the Ricketts family, who have contributed to a super PAC opposing him. He ended the week ranting about rewriting libel laws and threatening Amazon because founder Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post and it is covering Trump. Fortunately Bezos is vastly wealthier than Trump and can buy and sell him a dozen times over. In Trump's value system, Bezos is much the better man. Actually that's one thing Trump probably has right.

Across the spectrum, smart and troubled voices on the center-right spectrum are articulating why they will not support Trump and why Republicans must reject the menace. Former George W. Bush speechwriter Pete Wehner, one of the most eloquent voices, wrote in The New York Times: "Mr. Trump's virulent combination of ignorance, emotional instability, demagogy, solipsism and vindictiveness would do more than result in a failed presidency; it could very well lead to national catastrophe."
He's right, of course. Every Republican, from elected officials to super volunteers to leaders of the party, must ask themselves what it will mean for the GOP and, vastly more important, the country to play a role enabling this hateful man. Hillary Clinton will likely crush him, but that's really not the point. There is something at stake here larger than one election. To support Trump is to support the hate and racism he embodies. That is simply an intolerable moral position for any political party.

If Trump wins the nomination, politicians who support him will be acquiescing to, if not actively aiding, his hate. Donors, including the corporate donors, whom every convention depends on for support, cannot support a man with Trump's unbalanced, bigoted views. How can any corporation justify to its board that it donated funds to support a bigot?
If the Republican Party stands for nothing but winning elections, it deserves to lose. It will with Trump. But on the day after the election, the pain will not be just that the White House, the Senate, and possibly the House of Representatives are now in Democratic hands.
No, the greatest pain will be from the shame of pretending that an evil man was not evil and a hater really didn't mean what he said. We hold elections every two years, and there is always the chance to regain lost offices. But there is no mechanism to regain one's dignity and sense of decency once squandered.
That defeat is permanent. To support Trump is to support a bigot. It's really that simple.

What does a vote for Clinton mean then?

I dont give a shite what Rooney or his lackey think of Trump, why do they not give their opinion on killory?

I couldn't vote for either of them if I had a vote to be honest, both are despicable in their own ways and both are unfit for the role of President.

Well, no one is accusing Clinton of either being a bigot or indulging bigoted views he doesn't hold for political reasons.

And I'm sure it goes without saying that Stevens and the rest of the GOP are vehemently opposed to Clinton for policy reasons, NOT out of fear of what handing a nomination to a person would do to their own party.

That aside, you, above all people on this board, are an illustration of the long term GOP project to bring down "Killory" Clinton. It may be out of the headlines at the moment, but who do you think is responsible for your antipathy towards her? You didn't just lick the "Clinton hung four people out to dry in Benghazi" or killed Vince Foster and lots of other people stuff off the ground. How many Benghazi "investigations" have we had now? The latest one will, I'm sure, time its findings, assuming there are any, to come out in the autumn.

So don't worry, the GOP is ALWAYS hard at work on Hillary. Its just that they're also worried that all that "work" might be in vain if Trump gets the nomination.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 29, 2016, 04:05:44 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on February 29, 2016, 03:55:56 PM
I can't point to anyone right now who would do a better job than Obama. And I have no allegiance to the man at all - I dislike him a lot!

Trump is the worst candidate I've ever seen  - I think he is a democrat plant but either way he is a bigot and is horrible for any country
Clinton is a disaster - her flaws and faults have been pointed out and I don't need to repeat them - bad news for America if she is in office
Bernie brings a whole new mess and set of problems with his ideologies on socialism
and there is nobody left on the Republican side I could really vote for.... the place is couped

Obama could literally sleepwalk into a third term, if it was allowed.

As a presidential candidate, he is head and shoulders above any of the people currently running. Which is not to say he is without flaws. Just that this must be the poorest presidential field in decades.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 29, 2016, 05:47:08 PM
Stew, your question "What does a vote for Hillary mean, then?" is spot on.  On the one hand, it's not a vote for bigotry and bankrolling the wealthy as represented by that GOP motley crew.  It's a pathetic day when John Kasich seems vaguely appealing.  On the other hand, laying aside Hillary's baggage, it's a vote for the worker and the outsider.  Sanders has been saying something that has been my own moral compass for years: "You judge the greatness of a society not by its wealth but by how it treats its most marginalized." The Democrats, whatever you think of them, will try to do a better job of taking care of the average Joe.  And along those lines, a vote for Hillary may make for a more empathetic Supreme Court, a court with only one remaining originalist, Clarence Thomas. Stew, despite being a Harps man, I know you've got a good heart.  You've flipped your position on the death penalty, and you espoused some views that are more in line with Democratic thinking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on February 29, 2016, 08:47:03 PM
The lesser of two evils that's what we have to decide on in November. I'm not a fan of Hillary but Trump is scum. Elizabeth Warren would have won this easily, what a pity she didn't run against Clinton in the primaries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 29, 2016, 08:50:09 PM
My sentiments too, FL/MAYO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 29, 2016, 08:51:37 PM
You should check out John Oliver's 20 min. roasting of Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 29, 2016, 08:58:06 PM
The memo that kicked off neoliberalism

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on February 29, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
I would consider myself fairly well read on US politics but I dont get why there is so much venom for Obama? Obamacare aside, why is he so loathed? I've a few things in my head that i know are issues but it still doesn't add up for me, as a Republican Pres would have done little different.

A bullet point list preferable to a narrative if anybody can be arsed!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on February 29, 2016, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 29, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
I would consider myself fairly well read on US politics but I dont get why there is so much venom for Obama? Obamacare aside, why is he so loathed? I've a few things in my head that i know are issues but it still doesn't add up for me, as a Republican Pres would have done little different.

A bullet point list preferable to a narrative if anybody can be arsed!

1. Racism
2. See #1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on February 29, 2016, 09:30:20 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 29, 2016, 08:51:37 PM
You should check out John Oliver's 20 min. roasting of Trump.

Yes, it's very good, had a good laugh at that this morning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 29, 2016, 09:33:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 03:04:56 PM
GOP establishment getting VERY worried...

Stuart Stevens, Romney's campaign manager, on Trump, in the aftermath of the David Duke issue:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/a-vote-for-donald-trump-is-a-vote-for-bigotry.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/a-vote-for-donald-trump-is-a-vote-for-bigotry.html)

A Vote for Donald Trump Is a Vote for Bigotry

There's winning. And then there's supporting a bigot. If the GOP lines up behind Trump, it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously anymore.
Political consulting and morality go together about as well as that famous fish and bicycle. Lawyers have constructed a neat paradigm obligating them to handle any and all clients, a very convenient way to maintain pretext of high road while taking any road possible. So it is with political consultants. For years when asked my positions on issues, my standard response has been, "I don't have positions, I have clients."
Along the way I've been accused of not believing in anything but winning, which I always took as a compliment. The only reason I or any political consultant should be hired is to help a client win. We're not there to remind a candidate of his deeply held positions or to solve the problems of the world. We are there for one purpose: to do everything possible to win an election. We're the hammer, votes are the nail.
But to my annoyance, I can't take that position in the 2016 election. I'd like to blame it on Donald Trump, but that would be like be blaming a dog for barking. No, honesty demands the admission that Trump would not be important if he were not winning. And he's winning.

For months when pressed on Trump and what he meant for the Republican Party, I've been giving a stock answer that struck me as both true and easy: If we agree that Trump winning the Republican nomination means something, we have to agree that his not winning means something. That worked well enough and had the added bonus of being a setup—I hoped—for an "I told you so moment" when Trump didn't win.
After Iowa, that answer was looking pretty good, and it seemed easy enough to defeat Trump when his image of "winner" had been damaged. But to my utter astonishment, none of the Republican campaigns focused on what was the screamingly obvious mandate of the moment: defeat Trump. Instead there was this mass hysteria of candidates fighting fiercely to determine what order the losers could finish behind Trump.

Jeb Bush took on Trump more than any candidate but he was, bizarrely, not backed with sufficient force by the huge weaponry of his Right to Rise super PAC. Instead of scrambling to put the best tanks into the field to face the enemy's armor, Right to Rise spent more than $100 million in the care and feeding of cavalry horses. Predictably, once the shooting started, they were slaughtered.
So now Trump has won three of the four latest contests and is poised to keep winning until he has enough delegates to secure the Republican nomination. There is still some hope that he can be stopped short of the 1,236 delegates needed to win on the first ballot, but realistically this requires the three major candidates facing Trump—Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and John Kasich—to win their home states between now and March 16. It looks like Cruz will do so on Tuesday, but at the moment Rubio is considerably behind Trump in Florida, and Kasich and Trump are basically tied in Ohio.
Can it happen? Sure. Will it? Well, I hope so. (And anytime political consultants use phrases like "I hope so," it is like a doctor looking at an x-ray and saying, "That shadow might be an imaging error." Don't count on it.)

On Sunday, Feb. 28, the frontrunner for the Republican nomination was unable to answer a question about renouncing David Duke and white supremacists. "I don't know anything about David Duke," Trump said, which places the candidate in the unenviable position that his defenders could claim he wasn't a bigot but merely the dumbest man in America. Jake Tapper of CNN continued to push Trump, and he continued to refuse to denounce Duke and white supremacists. Only later in the day did Trump tweet out that, gee, he didn't really like Duke.
This latest is more than utterly disgusting. It really makes it impossible to pretend that Trump is not only an idiot but also a racist idiot. Yes, there were plenty of reasons to believe this before, with his rants about Mexican "rapists" and his prideful embrace of running for president in the Key of Hate. This is a man who attacked the pope. But even if Trump says he has never asked God for forgiveness—for his sake, let's hope that's another Trump lie—Americans are forgiving and there is always the tendency to give people another chance to correct mistakes.

But we shouldn't be giving Trump any more room for doubt. He's proven he's a uniquely ugly figure to emerge in American political history. He's threatened citizens who oppose him, like his outburst against the Ricketts family, who have contributed to a super PAC opposing him. He ended the week ranting about rewriting libel laws and threatening Amazon because founder Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post and it is covering Trump. Fortunately Bezos is vastly wealthier than Trump and can buy and sell him a dozen times over. In Trump's value system, Bezos is much the better man. Actually that's one thing Trump probably has right.

Across the spectrum, smart and troubled voices on the center-right spectrum are articulating why they will not support Trump and why Republicans must reject the menace. Former George W. Bush speechwriter Pete Wehner, one of the most eloquent voices, wrote in The New York Times: "Mr. Trump's virulent combination of ignorance, emotional instability, demagogy, solipsism and vindictiveness would do more than result in a failed presidency; it could very well lead to national catastrophe."
He's right, of course. Every Republican, from elected officials to super volunteers to leaders of the party, must ask themselves what it will mean for the GOP and, vastly more important, the country to play a role enabling this hateful man. Hillary Clinton will likely crush him, but that's really not the point. There is something at stake here larger than one election. To support Trump is to support the hate and racism he embodies. That is simply an intolerable moral position for any political party.

If Trump wins the nomination, politicians who support him will be acquiescing to, if not actively aiding, his hate. Donors, including the corporate donors, whom every convention depends on for support, cannot support a man with Trump's unbalanced, bigoted views. How can any corporation justify to its board that it donated funds to support a bigot?
If the Republican Party stands for nothing but winning elections, it deserves to lose. It will with Trump. But on the day after the election, the pain will not be just that the White House, the Senate, and possibly the House of Representatives are now in Democratic hands.
No, the greatest pain will be from the shame of pretending that an evil man was not evil and a hater really didn't mean what he said. We hold elections every two years, and there is always the chance to regain lost offices. But there is no mechanism to regain one's dignity and sense of decency once squandered.
That defeat is permanent. To support Trump is to support a bigot. It's really that simple.

What dignity could Clinton possibly have?

To support Clinton means to condone a murderer, it's really that simple.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 29, 2016, 09:59:22 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on February 29, 2016, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 29, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
I would consider myself fairly well read on US politics but I dont get why there is so much venom for Obama? Obamacare aside, why is he so loathed? I've a few things in my head that i know are issues but it still doesn't add up for me, as a Republican Pres would have done little different.

A bullet point list preferable to a narrative if anybody can be arsed!

1. Racism
2. See #1
Also the GOP echo chamber. Dems and GOPpers get different news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 29, 2016, 10:03:30 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-nix/an-open-letter-to-my-frie_2_b_9293694.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: jimmyd41 on February 29, 2016, 11:37:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 29, 2016, 10:03:30 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-nix/an-open-letter-to-my-frie_2_b_9293694.html

what a steaming pile of shit. Liberals are so f**king clueless. They don't understand a protest vote unless it is comes in the form of some hippie wannabees with a big sign saying "we have decided we don't like the establishment position". Nothing else can be seen as legit.

QuoteHow do you support him so blindly? Ask yourself, are you a racist, sexist, hateful and ignorant person as well?
The default liberal position. You disagree with my position. I will ignore any nuance and subtlety in your position and just brand you.

QuoteHis virulent ideas are seeping into the brains of his supporters.
The most virulent idea in America is the idea that white liberals can assuage their guilt about putting as much distance between themselves and black people as possible by eviscerating working class whites and cops. That is is THE most virulent idea in America. It wont work. Everybody can see the truth.


QuoteTrump's supporters are angry, and anger is infectious. I can tell you as a non-supporter of Trump I am just as angry. We need the kind of leader that seeks to bring us together, not tear us apart.#
"Together" meaning "not-within-15-miles-of-where-I-live"





QuoteTo all the people, of all the races and religions that Donald Trump stands against, to all the women that don't meet his standards of beauty, to all the good Muslims, and Christians, Mormons and Catholics and Jewish, Italians, Irish and Asians, to the African-Americans and Native Americans, to anyone who has ever been persecuted, belittled, made to feel inferior or bullied based on ignorance like the kind that Trump is spewing, please, I implore you to get out and vote against him. Don't let the progress of this great nation be halted. We've come too far.
Mormons ? interesting, I recall a concerted campaign of ridicule against Mormons during the last election. As a agnostic I find them to be bat shit crazy like all religions , however, having lived amongst them in the American west I have grown to appreciate the way they live out the meaning of their creed,  as Martin Luther King would have said. I noticed precious little respect for this in the last election which is why this risible liberal appeal fills me with disgust.


Quote
In this country we FIGHT and DIE for freedom, for Truth and Justice. We fight for what's right.
Really, have you actually fought for anything ? It is typically the southern, white working class that do your fighting for you. People like you typically spit on them for their efforts.


QuoteSome have attributed the following statement to Abraham Lincoln*:
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and cause me to tremble for safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic destroyed."

Yes indeed, the same corporations that import the labour that economically disenfranchises the white and black middle/working class. The same labour that works in cahoots with the white liberal elites like you to increase their wealth and establish the "gilded ghettos" of the likes of palo alto and Menlo park while the lesser tribes fight it out over resources leading to the inevitable clashes that the liberal elites can tut-tut over and chastise the "rasist" underclass. google loves liberals,liberals love google apple loves liberals, liberals love apple, facebook loves liberals, liberals love facebook ...you both want to take over the world. A match made in hell.  Everybody knows this

How very convenient. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 01, 2016, 05:19:18 AM
QuoteQuote
His virulent ideas are seeping into the brains of his supporters.
The most virulent idea in America is the idea that white liberals can assuage their guilt about putting as much distance between themselves and black people as possible by eviscerating working class whites and cops. That is is THE most virulent idea in America. It wont work. Everybody can see the truth.
(http://static1.squarespace.com/static/537e0722e4b0c3338dfc5521/t/53dd4a9ae4b01c361c9810b4/1407011496490/question-31842991.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 01, 2016, 07:37:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)

This is what's leading the GOP race
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 01, 2016, 09:25:29 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 01, 2016, 07:37:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)

This is what's leading the GOP race

That is brilliant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 01, 2016, 10:36:10 AM
The Drumpfinator (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/drumpfinator/hcimhbfpiofdihhdnofbdlhjcmjopilp) - it really works! Now if only someone could come up with the Killaryator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 01, 2016, 02:55:47 PM
so all of the private emails from the Clinton email server have now been released by the US state department.

I'm sure it will now be front page news everywhere...

Nope

The Benghazi attack is the Hail Mary for the GOP, and I would assume that they will hold off until the week of the election if Clinton runs. Any earlier and the rebuttal will actually be heard, and the fact checkers will have a field day. However the flip side is that truth in this nomination process has been largely overlooked.

When political news and commentary regarding the GOP nomination turns into a big brother/ TMZ style entertainment show, then it can't come as much of a surprise that the leading contender matches that format.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 01, 2016, 11:24:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2016, 09:25:29 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 01, 2016, 07:37:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)

This is what's leading the GOP race

That is brilliant.
John Oliver like most guys commenting here can't even vote in the election ,the brexit should be his talking points,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 01, 2016, 11:40:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2016, 11:24:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2016, 09:25:29 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 01, 2016, 07:37:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)

This is what's leading the GOP race

That is brilliant.
John Oliver like most guys commenting here can't even vote in the election ,the brexit should be his talking points,

Oliver makes a lot of points about Trump. You could have tried to dispute them, disprove them, or qualify them, but somehow it fits better that you just call him a foreigner. And in your mind you actually think that takes care of that, next question.

The real question though, is are there enough people with that level of depth to vote Trump in?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 01, 2016, 11:50:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2016, 11:40:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2016, 11:24:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2016, 09:25:29 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 01, 2016, 07:37:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)

This is what's leading the GOP race

That is brilliant.
John Oliver like most guys commenting here can't even vote in the election ,the brexit should be his talking points,

Oliver makes a lot of points about Trump. You could have tried to dispute them, disprove them, or qualify them, but somehow it fits better that you just call him a foreigner. And in your mind you actually think that takes care of that, next question.

The real question though, is are there enough people with that level of depth to vote Trump in?
maybe maybe not on trump, I never called him a foreigner. The point is after all his talking points and his countless shows spouting on about trump and any other conservative when it comes to Election Day he will be sitting at home not able to cast a vote on who he wants to be president, he should state that fact every time he talks about this.guys like this are all I'm a smart arse Brit and most yanks are so dumb it's getting a bit old .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 02, 2016, 12:26:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2016, 11:50:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2016, 11:40:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2016, 11:24:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2016, 09:25:29 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 01, 2016, 07:37:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)

This is what's leading the GOP race

That is brilliant.
John Oliver like most guys commenting here can't even vote in the election ,the brexit should be his talking points,

Oliver makes a lot of points about Trump. You could have tried to dispute them, disprove them, or qualify them, but somehow it fits better that you just call him a foreigner. And in your mind you actually think that takes care of that, next question.

The real question though, is are there enough people with that level of depth to vote Trump in?
maybe maybe not on trump, I never called him a foreigner. The point is after all his talking points and his countless shows spouting on about trump and any other conservative when it comes to Election Day he will be sitting at home not able to cast a vote on who he wants to be president, he should state that fact every time he talks about this.guys like this are all I'm a smart arse Brit and most yanks are so dumb it's getting a bit old .

Calling him 'a smart arse Brit' is the point?

He could have published a revolutionary Unified Field Theory, but you and Trump would snigger at him because of his accent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2016, 01:13:25 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2016, 11:50:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2016, 11:40:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2016, 11:24:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2016, 09:25:29 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 01, 2016, 07:37:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)

This is what's leading the GOP race

That is brilliant.
John Oliver like most guys commenting here can't even vote in the election ,the brexit should be his talking points,

Oliver makes a lot of points about Trump. You could have tried to dispute them, disprove them, or qualify them, but somehow it fits better that you just call him a foreigner. And in your mind you actually think that takes care of that, next question.

The real question though, is are there enough people with that level of depth to vote Trump in?
maybe maybe not on trump, I never called him a foreigner. The point is after all his talking points and his countless shows spouting on about trump and any other conservative when it comes to Election Day he will be sitting at home not able to cast a vote on who he wants to be president, he should state that fact every time he talks about this.guys like this are all I'm a smart arse Brit and most yanks are so dumb it's getting a bit old .

He's has a weekly show on US television FFS. His topics are generally political, and he often does, through comedy, a far better job of analyzing these issues than any of the mainstream political analysts, as well as focusing on stuff that they couldn't be arsed dealing with. Why WOULDN'T he be covering Trump?

And what does his citizenship status have to do with anything? Does the place he was born render him less able to observe and comment on the place he lives? Are his opinions less valid? And what on earth would be gained from having him state his citizenship status whenever he talks about the presidential election?? What possible difference could THAT make to his commentary?

If you don't like him, don't watch him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2016, 01:43:17 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 01, 2016, 07:37:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)

This is what's leading the GOP race

;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2016, 01:44:52 AM
I looked at this piece on here I don't watch him. Does he go after Hillary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2016, 03:43:15 AM
What conservatives generally do is they pack so many lies and falsehoods into every statement, that to correct every one of them would take forever. A five minute statement from a conservative would take about an hour to debunk, so densely packed are the lies and nonsense therein. And since the GOP has long ago abandoned reality-based politics, the challenge facing Hillary will be knowing where to start with refuting Trump's BS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 02, 2016, 08:07:03 AM
Maybe it'll be humour that take The Drumpfinator?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OemqVWi_R0k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OemqVWi_R0k)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 02, 2016, 08:15:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2016, 03:43:15 AM
What conservatives generally do is they pack so many lies and falsehoods into every statement, that to correct every one of them would take forever. A five minute statement from a conservative would take about an hour to debunk, so densely packed are the lies and nonsense therein. And since the GOP has long ago abandoned reality-based politics, the challenge facing Hillary will be knowing where to start with refuting Trump's BS.

The challenge killory has is staying out of prison eamon, as for your remarks about republican lies, you are a killory minnion and a hypocrite, you talk about republican lies whilst you support one of if not the biggest liars in American political history, you libtards have no shame.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2016, 08:58:30 AM
The GOP is lost. The 3 candidates left are extremists that would not have a hope in Europe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 02, 2016, 09:00:59 AM
On to November then and Drumpf v Clinton. I genuinely think Drumpf getting the GOP nomination is a good thing, and not just because it makes it easier for Clinton. No, it does. While the usual suspects are already ramping up for their belief that Drumpf ain't all bad when looked at in a certain light, it's going to be difficult for the Republicans to maintain a coherent front. And even if Drumpf did get elected, better him than the zealots that are Rubio and Cruz. Grover Norquist famously said that all they need is "a Republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the United States", hence how he was able to rationalise supporting someone as slippery as Mitt Romney. He won't find Drumpf to be so malleable.

Is this post showing up to everyone with the word T-rump? I think the Drumpfinator extension even changes the text in the preview box to Drumpf! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 02, 2016, 09:22:01 AM
Daniel Larison nails, er, T-rump's core appeal (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/republicans-cant-stand-frauds-except-when-they-can/) to Republican primary voters:

QuoteSome may hold out hope that he might follow through, and even that slight chance is an improvement over the others that they know will do nothing for them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 02, 2016, 09:45:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2016, 08:58:30 AM
The GOP is lost. The 3 candidates left are extremists that would not have a hope in Europe.

The American people are sick and tired of the establishmet and the current status quo, Trump has tapped into that mindset and is reaping the rewards as a result,  that said he is an absolute bomb scare, I am just glad he is a democrat given his personality and persona, oh and his political donations and neo liberal stances on some issues, one last thing, he has been on TV describing himself as a democrat, phew, dodged a bullet there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 02, 2016, 10:35:44 AM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2016, 09:45:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2016, 08:58:30 AM
The GOP is lost. The 3 candidates left are extremists that would not have a hope in Europe.

The American people are sick and tired of the establishment and the current status quo, Trump has tapped into that mindset and is reaping the rewards as a result,  that said he is an absolute bomb scare, I am just glad he is a democrat given his personality and persona, oh and his political donations and neo liberal stances on some issues, one last thing, he has been on TV describing himself as a democrat, phew, dodged a bullet there.

GOP congratulates itself in dodging a bullet, because the fascist "strongman" they have nominated is actually a Democrat, thereby absolving all the registered Republicans who voted for him from blame, and also heave a sigh of relief that in a two party system, they have now given the American people a choice between two Democrats in the general election.*

Way to run a country, GOP guys!

* Please disregard all comments as I am not a US citizen, and reside in a universe that can be called "reality" based.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 02, 2016, 10:56:20 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 02, 2016, 10:35:44 AM
GOP congratulates itself in dodging a bullet, because the fascist "strongman" they have nominated is actually a Democrat, thereby absolving all the registered Republicans who voted for him from blame, and also heave a sigh of relief that in a two party system, they have now given the American people a choice between two Democrats in the general election.*

Way to run a country, GOP guys!

* Please disregard all comments as I am not a US citizen, and reside in a universe that can be called "reality" based.

And thus is the purity of the Volk maintained...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: jimmyd41 on March 02, 2016, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2016, 03:43:15 AM
What conservatives generally do is they pack so many lies and falsehoods into every statement, that to correct every one of them would take forever. A five minute statement from a conservative would take about an hour to debunk, so densely packed are the lies and nonsense therein. And since the GOP has long ago abandoned reality-based politics, the challenge facing Hillary will be knowing where to start with refuting Trump's BS.

(https://whybecausescience.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/leave-britney-alone.jpg)

calm down darling. Shake that sand from your vagina and go get a pedicure with your fabulous friends. It'll be all better after that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 02, 2016, 11:03:19 AM
Quote from: jimmyd41 on March 02, 2016, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2016, 03:43:15 AM
What conservatives generally do is they pack so many lies and falsehoods into every statement, that to correct every one of them would take forever. A five minute statement from a conservative would take about an hour to debunk, so densely packed are the lies and nonsense therein. And since the GOP has long ago abandoned reality-based politics, the challenge facing Hillary will be knowing where to start with refuting Trump's BS.

(https://whybecausescience.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/leave-britney-alone.jpg)

calm down darling. Shake that sand from your vagina and go get a pedicure with your fabulous friends. It'll be all better after that.

You're lovely...let me guess, you're one of the Real Housewives of the thousand year Reich, yes? Love that show.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: jimmyd41 on March 02, 2016, 11:08:07 AM
Ah, the journalist doth speak. You lads have a lot to answer for. Your lies and propaganda are the cause of much of the strife in the world today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 02, 2016, 11:12:55 AM
Journalist? Never been one of those Jimmy, though your prior (mistaken) knowledge of my media work would indicate you've been on the board before. What's the craic, did you get claustrophobic in the sock drawer?

Hmm, hates journalists, hates immigrants, has an alter ego named after an SS officer, believes liberals are stabbing him in the back...I bet you tell people you just really, really like Charlie Chaplin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 02, 2016, 11:14:12 AM
Quote from: jimmyd41 on March 02, 2016, 11:08:07 AM
Ah, the journalist doth speak. You lads have a lot to answer for. Your lies and propaganda are the cause of much of the strife in the world today.

Also, using the word "doth" does not confer intelligence on the user. Quite the opposite. Journalism 101.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 02, 2016, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 02, 2016, 11:12:55 AM
Journalist? Never been one of those Jimmy, though your prior (mistaken) knowledge of my media work would indicate you've been on the board before. What's the craic, did you get claustrophobic in the sock drawer?

Hmm, hates journalists, hates immigrants, has an alter ego named after an SS officer, believes liberals are stabbing him in the back...I bet you tell people you just really, really like Charlie Chaplin.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on March 02, 2016, 12:51:52 PM
Quote from: stew on February 16, 2016, 12:52:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 16, 2016, 09:59:40 AM
Obama is the reason Europe is "flooded" with refugees... Wow. I know you struggle to grasp a lot of the stuff that goes on here, but that one was breathtaking.

Tell me more about how you'd move to Switzerland where, of course, you'd be such a wonderful cultural fit.

For a man who was so out of touch with American politics, ( think about trump self funding )it makes perfect sense that you cannot see that obamination  failed to take up the advice of his own Generals and have a safe haven for Syrians in their own country, under a no fly zone strictly enforced by the us military.

See Gallstone, if a Republican had have been in the white house not one Syrian would have left the country, no Paris attacks, no rapes and molestation on German women and other women in countries around the world.

Galls Russia has a leader called Putin, your hero Obama is afraid of this former kgb alleged rapist and that is why we have Muslims from all over the middle east converging on Europe, take your time son and let that info sink in.

Lol, your apology for this one is happily accepted. Stupidly believing everything The Donald tells you. Child-like.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on March 02, 2016, 12:57:51 PM
I do support Trump in his bid to build a wall in Clare. In fact, I'd allow him build a wall all *around* Clare. Then we could fill it in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2016, 01:54:10 PM
Trump is a very ugly face of US politics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on March 02, 2016, 02:16:08 PM
He is, as we say in Offaly, two ends of a bollox.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2016, 02:32:31 PM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2016, 09:45:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2016, 08:58:30 AM
The GOP is lost. The 3 candidates left are extremists that would not have a hope in Europe.

The American people are sick and tired of the establishmet and the current status quo, Trump has tapped into that mindset and is reaping the rewards as a result,  that said he is an absolute bomb scare, I am just glad he is a democrat given his personality and persona, oh and his political donations  and neo liberal stances on some issues, one last thing, he has been on TV describing himself as a democrat, phew, dodged a bullet there.

So you are saying the GOP base, who are sick of their party's establishment (basically they're taking their ball and going home because their party, the most obstructive, do-nothing congressional group in history, couldn't make their scorched earth tactics beat Obama back in a system where other democratic interests are also served and represented), are turning, in protest, to a Democratic imposter who is spouting vacuous, xenophobic nonsense, basically pushing their buttons and telling them what they want to hear?

Just how dumb do you think the GOP base is?? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 02, 2016, 02:48:22 PM
Nice!

We find these truths to be self evident...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 03, 2016, 05:01:49 PM
Romney's gone to Town on Trump . . . is it just me or is there a chance someone might come knocking out of the blue come Convention time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on March 03, 2016, 05:25:37 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 03, 2016, 05:01:49 PM
Romney's gone to Town on Trump . . . is it just me or is there a chance someone might come knocking out of the blue come Convention time?
romney might step up as an independent? Or a third party emerges? who knows
he should have put himself in the mix from the start... he would have walked all over Trump? but maybe strategic move to avoid all the messy debates and mud slinging and swing in to save the day?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2016, 05:52:36 PM
One thing is for sure, if Trump is the GOP nominee, there will be plenty of footage of GOP leading lights denouncing Trump for Hillary to use in her ads.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 03, 2016, 05:55:38 PM
Perhaps more likely that Trump finds some way to walk away from the Republican nomination, go independent himself, and thus give him an out if he loses in the general. In that situation, if you get to a convention with Cruz and Rubio left, and a dogfight between delegates, a draft Romney movement emerges, with perhaps Rubio as a VP selection.

All that is predicated on Trump realizing that Hillary creams him in a head to head (I don't think she creams Romney, but a third party run from Trump will split the conservative vote)

Absolutely fascinating - for all the dread implications of Trump running in whatever form for President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2016, 06:34:35 PM
I guess its all about match-ups (Hillary is not Obama), but Romney was a horrible candidate last time out. The only time he even briefly came close to even beginning to look like he could win was when Obama gave that listless, apathetic performance in the first debate, and even that was partly because Romney was doing the "pivot to the centre" bit and agreeing with Obama on a lot of stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2016, 06:44:33 PM
If Trump goes 3rd party the GOP vote is split. Even Willie O'Dea could then win for the Dems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 03, 2016, 07:07:57 PM
Trump as a 3rd party or independent candidate is the absolute nightmare for the GOP. They would likely come third on the popular vote.
The nightmare scenario for the Dems is Hilary losing to Bernie/ or another legal challenge/ indictment. That likely leaves Bloomberg with a clear run as a 3rd party and Trump as president.

what would be brilliant for the neutral (yup- I mean me) is 4 names on the ballot, trump bloomberg rubio and bernie.
And that is the many faces of US Politics that this thread has been looking for...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2016, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 03, 2016, 06:34:35 PM
I guess its all about match-ups (Hillary is not Obama), but Romney was a horrible candidate last time out. The only time he even briefly came close to even beginning to look like he could win was when Obama gave that listless, apathetic performance in the first debate, and even that was partly because Romney was doing the "pivot to the centre" bit and agreeing with Obama on a lot of stuff.
At least Romney was presentable. None of the 3 left are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 03, 2016, 07:38:03 PM
A Hillary aid who set up her personal email account has been given immunity from prosecution a very interesting development .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2016, 08:15:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2016, 07:38:03 PM
A Hillary aid who set up her personal email account has been given immunity from prosecution a very interesting development .

I predict a repeat of the "a lot of buffers" congressional testimony from The Godfather 2.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 03, 2016, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 03, 2016, 06:34:35 PM
I guess its all about match-ups (Hillary is not Obama), but Romney was a horrible candidate last time out. The only time he even briefly came close to even beginning to look like he could win was when Obama gave that listless, apathetic performance in the first debate, and even that was partly because Romney was doing the "pivot to the centre" bit and agreeing with Obama on a lot of stuff.

For Obama's performance in that debate I blame Obama for taking debate advice from John Kerry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2016, 03:03:59 AM
Politics everywhere  struggles to contain the fallout of the economic situation. Trump, Irish water and Brexit are all linked.  What is happening to the GOP is seismic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 04, 2016, 07:55:00 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcrpzhCVAAAILUz.jpg:large)

   

BY:  Matthew Continetti
March 3, 2016 11:18 pm


Donald Trump had by far his worst debate of the 2016 campaign on Thursday. He was defensive and vulgar, evasive and condescending, rude and imperious. He moved drastically to the center on immigration, repudiating his position on H-1B visas on stage and saying "everything is negotiable," including the border wall and the fate of illegal immigrants already in the United States. He defended his calls for expansive torture and the killing of civilians related to terrorists, saying the military "will do what I tell them" even if his orders contradict the law. He dismissed his opponents as "little Marco" and "lying Ted" and bragged about his manhood. Over two hours he provided reams and reams of material for Hillary Clinton's ad writers. And through it all he was cheered by a raucous and heckling audience that seemed to have been transported straight from the courtroom scene in "Encounter at Farpoint."

The spectacle made me ill. On screen I watched decades of work by conservative institutions, activists, and elected officials being lit aflame not only by the New York demagogue but by his enablers who waited until the last possible moment to criticize and try to stop him. And even then it may be too late.

I sometimes wonder whether Trump chose to run as a Republican because he identified the GOP as the weaker of the two parties. His politics line up favorably with Democrats, and he has supported Democrats in the past. But the Republicans had been so buffeted by 20 years of inattention to the costs of globalization, by the growing estrangement of traditional constituencies who have lost status and resources in the twenty-first century, by the mistakes and narrow-mindedness of the party elite, that clearly the party of Lincoln was the easier mark. Trump called the bluff of the Beltway establishment. He proved that the ghost of Jack Kemp doesn't move the party base. The ghost of Nixon does.

There was no winner at the debate, but there was certainly a loser: The GOP. It started this election cycle in a strong position, and is now on the precipice of nominating a political neophyte, a caricature of everything liberals hate about Republicans, whose unfavorable ratings are sky-high and who loses to Hillary Clinton in practically every poll. The best hope of the anti-Trump forces is to somehow prevent him from winning the number of delegates necessary to secure the nomination outright, and deliver the nomination to someone else at the party's convention. I'm skeptical. It's a last-ditch attempt, and if the party wants to nominate Trump, that's its choice. But in doing so it would crown as the heir to Lincoln and TR and Eisenhower and Reagan a man who every day finds new ways to polarize, repel, infuriate, exhaust, shock, and horrify.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2016, 08:47:56 AM
Mick O Dowd seems to be the Irish version of Trump. He promised to make Meath great again. He has done to the Ryles what Trump is doing to the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 04, 2016, 09:08:45 AM
Some number crunching on the path to a contested convention here (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/delegate-math-here-s-how-contested-convention-could-happen-n531191). The crucial graphic:

Quote(http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_09/1444276/2possible_count_if_rubio_wins_fl_kasich_wins_oh_chartbuilder_1_5eccf512ee9051165c04224e3f36fdb8.nbcnews-ux-600-480.png)

In that case, Trump still holds the delegate lead. But he needs to win 66 percent of remaining delegates to get to 1,237 -- and that could be a hard climb.

As another article noted on the subject, a contested convention is like the white whale of political hacks. I don't think I'd go to sleep during the convention if it happened.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2016, 01:27:24 PM
How Trump uses language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aFo_BV-UzI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 04, 2016, 01:38:13 PM
Interesting letter to Obama on his Obamacare fro ma staunch GOP member - maybe there is hope???

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcpUPWeUcAEUZvz.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 04, 2016, 01:50:04 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 04, 2016, 01:38:13 PM
Interesting letter to Obama on his Obamacare fro ma staunch GOP member - maybe there is hope???

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcpUPWeUcAEUZvz.jpg:large)

Nah never worry the Nazi looney tunes will find a way to discredit it!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2016, 01:55:43 PM
But..but...but...more people lost their health care... or something...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 04, 2016, 01:58:55 PM
Obviously a Democrat plant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2016, 08:27:18 PM
The GOP in-house rows and fighting continue, even down at the local level.

Down in Texas the governor is going apeshit over some yahoo conspiracy theorist elected county chairman. Robert Morrow (who co-authored a conspiracy book last year with former Trump campaign chair Roger Stone) reckons LBJ killed Kennedy and has publicized lots of crazy shite about Hillary. Apparently the GOP are worried about him making them look bad, while Stone is gloating.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local-govt-politics/greg-abbott-robert-morrow-cannot-adequately-repres/nqcrb/ (http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local-govt-politics/greg-abbott-robert-morrow-cannot-adequately-repres/nqcrb/)

Some of Morrow's tweets:  :o ;D

Rick Perry has craved f**king men in the ass most of his life! Dead serious.

and

Pretty sure George W. Bush can suck a dick better than Hillary Clinton

and

I am also expert in Rick Perry's rampaging bisexual adulteries. This is a man who campaigns with Bible and funds gay prostitutes!!

and

Is Hillary Clinton really an angry bull dyke? Bill says so!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2016, 08:58:17 PM
This list of orthodox GOP views is fascinating

https://it.pinterest.com/pin/346566133805777538/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 06, 2016, 01:22:12 PM
Interesting summary of the evolution of the GOP, their embrace of the "southern strategy" and its resultant path to Donald Trump.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/05/trump-reagan-nixon-republican-party-racism (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/05/trump-reagan-nixon-republican-party-racism)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 07, 2016, 10:19:22 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 04, 2016, 07:55:00 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcrpzhCVAAAILUz.jpg:large)

   

BY:  Matthew Continetti
March 3, 2016 11:18 pm


Donald Trump had by far his worst debate of the 2016 campaign on Thursday. He was defensive and vulgar, evasive and condescending, rude and imperious. He moved drastically to the center on immigration, repudiating his position on H-1B visas on stage and saying "everything is negotiable," including the border wall and the fate of illegal immigrants already in the United States. He defended his calls for expansive torture and the killing of civilians related to terrorists, saying the military "will do what I tell them" even if his orders contradict the law. He dismissed his opponents as "little Marco" and "lying Ted" and bragged about his manhood. Over two hours he provided reams and reams of material for Hillary Clinton's ad writers. And through it all he was cheered by a raucous and heckling audience that seemed to have been transported straight from the courtroom scene in "Encounter at Farpoint."

The spectacle made me ill. On screen I watched decades of work by conservative institutions, activists, and elected officials being lit aflame not only by the New York demagogue but by his enablers who waited until the last possible moment to criticize and try to stop him. And even then it may be too late.

I sometimes wonder whether Trump chose to run as a Republican because he identified the GOP as the weaker of the two parties. His politics line up favorably with Democrats, and he has supported Democrats in the past. But the Republicans had been so buffeted by 20 years of inattention to the costs of globalization, by the growing estrangement of traditional constituencies who have lost status and resources in the twenty-first century, by the mistakes and narrow-mindedness of the party elite, that clearly the party of Lincoln was the easier mark. Trump called the bluff of the Beltway establishment. He proved that the ghost of Jack Kemp doesn't move the party base. The ghost of Nixon does.

There was no winner at the debate, but there was certainly a loser: The GOP. It started this election cycle in a strong position, and is now on the precipice of nominating a political neophyte, a caricature of everything liberals hate about Republicans, whose unfavorable ratings are sky-high and who loses to Hillary Clinton in practically every poll. The best hope of the anti-Trump forces is to somehow prevent him from winning the number of delegates necessary to secure the nomination outright, and deliver the nomination to someone else at the party's convention. I'm skeptical. It's a last-ditch attempt, and if the party wants to nominate Trump, that's its choice. But in doing so it would crown as the heir to Lincoln and TR and Eisenhower and Reagan a man who every day finds new ways to polarize, repel, infuriate, exhaust, shock, and horrify.

Right enough, the racist liberal Donald trump has no shame!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2016, 10:32:58 AM
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/fc3f733c-e20e-11e5-9217-6ae3733a2cd1.html


But a 0.1 per cent fall in average hourly earnings in February also highlighted one of the main worries facing the US economy: that many Americans are still failing to see the benefits of the recovery and growing increasingly frustrated about it, a concern that is having an impact on the political debate and this year's presidential campaign.

http://monthlyreview.org/2016/01/01/capitalism-and-its-current-crisis/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 07, 2016, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 07, 2016, 10:19:22 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 04, 2016, 07:55:00 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcrpzhCVAAAILUz.jpg:large)

   

BY:  Matthew Continetti
March 3, 2016 11:18 pm


Donald Trump had by far his worst debate of the 2016 campaign on Thursday. He was defensive and vulgar, evasive and condescending, rude and imperious. He moved drastically to the center on immigration, repudiating his position on H-1B visas on stage and saying "everything is negotiable," including the border wall and the fate of illegal immigrants already in the United States. He defended his calls for expansive torture and the killing of civilians related to terrorists, saying the military "will do what I tell them" even if his orders contradict the law. He dismissed his opponents as "little Marco" and "lying Ted" and bragged about his manhood. Over two hours he provided reams and reams of material for Hillary Clinton's ad writers. And through it all he was cheered by a raucous and heckling audience that seemed to have been transported straight from the courtroom scene in "Encounter at Farpoint."

The spectacle made me ill. On screen I watched decades of work by conservative institutions, activists, and elected officials being lit aflame not only by the New York demagogue but by his enablers who waited until the last possible moment to criticize and try to stop him. And even then it may be too late.

I sometimes wonder whether Trump chose to run as a Republican because he identified the GOP as the weaker of the two parties. His politics line up favorably with Democrats, and he has supported Democrats in the past. But the Republicans had been so buffeted by 20 years of inattention to the costs of globalization, by the growing estrangement of traditional constituencies who have lost status and resources in the twenty-first century, by the mistakes and narrow-mindedness of the party elite, that clearly the party of Lincoln was the easier mark. Trump called the bluff of the Beltway establishment. He proved that the ghost of Jack Kemp doesn't move the party base. The ghost of Nixon does.

There was no winner at the debate, but there was certainly a loser: The GOP. It started this election cycle in a strong position, and is now on the precipice of nominating a political neophyte, a caricature of everything liberals hate about Republicans, whose unfavorable ratings are sky-high and who loses to Hillary Clinton in practically every poll. The best hope of the anti-Trump forces is to somehow prevent him from winning the number of delegates necessary to secure the nomination outright, and deliver the nomination to someone else at the party's convention. I'm skeptical. It's a last-ditch attempt, and if the party wants to nominate Trump, that's its choice. But in doing so it would crown as the heir to Lincoln and TR and Eisenhower and Reagan a man who every day finds new ways to polarize, repel, infuriate, exhaust, shock, and horrify.

Right enough, the racist liberal Donald trump has no shame!

Surely the point is that he is being voted for by racist conservatives? In a GOP primary?? "Thanks Obama" won't cut it for this Stew.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 07, 2016, 06:17:25 PM
Trump has always had more gra for the dems than he ever had for the gop, a simple Google search will confirm this.

Liberals need to,get this simple fact through their skulls, not every Trump supporter is a racist and by the way, not wanting illegals in your country should no make you a racist, I am sick and tired of the left whinging about racism where none exists, take for example the door who stated that the term 'obamacare' was racist even though the prez loved the name, or take the big shot academic who claimed she was profiled for walking while black, that bitch claimed racist cops
harassed her while on a  walk and castigated the cops for the way they they treated her........... The cops released the cop cam after a few days 2nd they were model professionals, this annoyed me to the point I wrote her an email reminding her that crying wolf as a leader in her community did nothing to further race relations and she had an obligation to be truthful in her message to the people she has influence over, it made her look like the racist and fair play to the cops for making a complete liar out of her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 07, 2016, 06:22:08 PM
But Trump has the most gra for Trump, it would appear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2016, 06:32:49 PM
Quote from: stew on March 07, 2016, 06:17:25 PM
Trump has always had more gra for the dems than he ever had for the gop, a simple Google search will confirm this.

Liberals need to,get this simple fact through their skulls, not every Trump supporter is a racist and by the way, not wanting illegals in your country should no make you a racist, I am sick and tired of the left whinging about racism where none exists, take for example the door who stated that the term 'obamacare' was racist even though the prez loved the name, or take the big shot academic who claimed she was profiled for walking while black, that bitch claimed racist cops
harassed her while on a  walk and castigated the cops for the way they they treated her........... The cops released the cop cam after a few days 2nd they were model professionals, this annoyed me to the point I wrote her an email reminding her that crying wolf as a leader in her community did nothing to further race relations and she had an obligation to be truthful in her message to the people she has influence over, it made her look like the racist and fair play to the cops for making a complete liar out of her.

Who is saying that "every Trump supporter is a racist"?

What is undeniable is that the man prevaricated on the support of David Duke and that white supremacists are very enthusiastic about his candidacy and, indeed, have been caught on camera over the past few days abusing and kicking a protestor out of a Trump rally.

As for the academic, good for you on giving her your opinion when she was exposed, but just because some idiot tried to fraudulently implicate some cops for racist actions, doesn't mean that wider problems do/have not existed. In that case, the video backed up the police version. In many others, it has not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2016, 08:16:13 PM
The GOP is in danger of falling apart. The base has no respect for the leadership. Trump has driven a wedge between the 2. This is huge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2016, 06:49:08 AM
Suck it up, Stew. You've got one more year of Obama and then at least another four years of a Democrat. As long as your crowd refuses to come back to reality-based politics, youse'll be out on yer ears for a generation until you wise up. Good enough for you.  Slap it up yiz.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 08, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
Presume we can expect more of this if he gets the nomination
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 05:13:13 PM
This is a fascinating article

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/03/02/after-super-tuesday-taking-on-trump/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 08, 2016, 06:15:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2016, 06:49:08 AM
Suck it up, Stew. You've got one more year of Obama and then at least another four years of a Democrat. As long as your crowd refuses to come back to reality-based politics, youse'll be out on yer ears for a generation until you wise up. Good enough for you.  Slap it up yiz.

One more year of Obama? How the feck do you figure that?

I have endured 7 plus years of the worst administration in my lifetime, I can suck it up for another nine months.

Eamon, do you think it right that your hero Obama hasn't even got it in him to acknowledge that isil are radical Muslim terrorists, is it fair for John Kerry to ignore the fact that Christians are being beheaded in the middle east and claim that mire research needed to be done before accepting that Muslims were killing innocent people not if their faith.

I despise the loony left you adore but I respect their right to govern when elected by the people, not you, if the republicans got a free run you would not have it in you to respect that decision, not just you, most liberals tend to run to the hills when the results do not go their way, I have no doubt if hrc is not incarcerated for her corruption and lies, she will be elected president of the USA, I will not  spend one night in the states under that political whore but hey, you keep supporting goldman sachs and keep ignoring the fact the woman is a lying, hateful sack of shite, that given your values, is well worthy of your vote, congratulations in advance Eamon on your hero becoming president, I hope she gets what's coming to her and the Feds have the balls to hold her accountable for her actions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 08, 2016, 06:23:01 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 08, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
Presume we can expect more of this if he gets the nomination
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-ox D.C.ver-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html)

Shock horror deccy baby, Clinton has american blood on her hands, is under investigation by the feds for her handling of national secrets but you tend to speculate on the Donald and his ties to the mafia, why would a bleeding heart like you go after one if your own?

Declan,Benghazi, Clinton go.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 08, 2016, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 08, 2016, 06:23:01 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 08, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
Presume we can expect more of this if he gets the nomination
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-ox D.C.ver-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html)

Shock horror deccy baby, Clinton has american blood on her hands, is under investigation by the feds for her handling of national secrets but you tend to speculate on the Donald and his ties to the mafia, why would a bleeding heart like you go after one if your own?

Declan,Benghazi, Clinton go.

You would swear the last Republican presidency never ever happened. All those dead Americans. All those dead foreigners. All based on lies. But forget that, lets look at Hillary's emails.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 09:45:26 PM
Hill was deeply involved in destabilising Libya , with the glorious results we see now. Not much better than Bush 2 on that score. She is  the Wall st candidate when the GOP base is turning away from that, even if it is Trump. There is an awful lot of destabilising stuff going on in the US and the hold of the 1% on the economy is driving most of it. But what is happening to the GOP is seismic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 08, 2016, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 09:45:26 PM
Hill was deeply involved in destabilising Libya , with the glorious results we see now. Not much better than Bush 2 on that score. She is  the Wall st candidate when the GOP base is turning away from that, even if it is Trump. There is an awful lot of destabilising stuff going on in the US and the hold of the 1% on the economy is driving most of it. But what is happening to the GOP is seismic.

Really?

You compare the remote control involvement in Libya with the 10 years on the ground in Iraq?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 11:17:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 09:45:26 PM
Hill was deeply involved in destabilising Libya , with the glorious results we see now. Not much better than Bush 2 on that score. She is  the Wall st candidate when the GOP base is turning away from that, even if it is Trump. There is an awful lot of destabilising stuff going on in the US and the hold of the 1% on the economy is driving most of it. But what is happening to the GOP is seismic.

Really?

You compare the remote control involvement in Libya with the 10 years on the ground in Iraq?
in terms of destroying a country and setting off a war that killed hundreds of thousands I don't think Hillary is either moral, capable or worth voting for. The Libya project with France was despicable.  She's cut from the same neoliberal warmongering cloth as Bush.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 08, 2016, 11:40:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 11:17:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 09:45:26 PM
Hill was deeply involved in destabilising Libya , with the glorious results we see now. Not much better than Bush 2 on that score. She is  the Wall st candidate when the GOP base is turning away from that, even if it is Trump. There is an awful lot of destabilising stuff going on in the US and the hold of the 1% on the economy is driving most of it. But what is happening to the GOP is seismic.

Really?

You compare the remote control involvement in Libya with the 10 years on the ground in Iraq?
in terms of destroying a country and setting off a war that killed hundreds of thousands I don't think Hillary is either moral, capable or worth voting for. The Libya project with France was despicable.  She's cut from the same neoliberal warmongering cloth as Bush.

She may be, but we have no evidence on Hillary at the moment that remotely compares to what Bush did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2016, 05:44:59 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 11:40:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 11:17:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 09:45:26 PM
Hill was deeply involved in destabilising Libya , with the glorious results we see now. Not much better than Bush 2 on that score. She is  the Wall st candidate when the GOP base is turning away from that, even if it is Trump. There is an awful lot of destabilising stuff going on in the US and the hold of the 1% on the economy is driving most of it. But what is happening to the GOP is seismic.

Really?

You compare the remote control involvement in Libya with the 10 years on the ground in Iraq?
in terms of destroying a country and setting off a war that killed hundreds of thousands I don't think Hillary is either moral, capable or worth voting for. The Libya project with France was despicable.  She's cut from the same neoliberal warmongering cloth as Bush.

She may be, but we have no evidence on Hillary at the moment that remotely compares to what Bush did.
She is a sociopath. It doesn't have to be DEFCON Cheney to be odious. Hillary as prez would keep the wars going. The Clintons are arseholes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 09, 2016, 07:21:18 AM
Clinton loses a 21 point lead in Michigan, loses a lot of black voters to Sanders and he wins Michigan in a stunning upset, hell slap it up you pro establishment liberal neanderthals, time to get on the Bernie bandwagon because the primaries are coming north and Clinton has had her ass handed to her there.

If I had a vote and I had to choose between Trump and any democrat I would abstain. I wish to correct that, if Sanders runs against Trump I would vote fir Sanders.

This country is begging for change, I hope Sanders kills Clinton's career and goes on to with the. Nomination,

A wise man once said 'may you live in interesting times' I believe we are living in interesting times, who knows, as her stock continues to falter maybe the FBI will grow a pair and prosecute the horrible twat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 09, 2016, 09:41:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2016, 05:44:59 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 11:40:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 11:17:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2016, 09:45:26 PM
Hill was deeply involved in destabilising Libya , with the glorious results we see now. Not much better than Bush 2 on that score. She is  the Wall st candidate when the GOP base is turning away from that, even if it is Trump. There is an awful lot of destabilising stuff going on in the US and the hold of the 1% on the economy is driving most of it. But what is happening to the GOP is seismic.

Really?

You compare the remote control involvement in Libya with the 10 years on the ground in Iraq?
in terms of destroying a country and setting off a war that killed hundreds of thousands I don't think Hillary is either moral, capable or worth voting for. The Libya project with France was despicable.  She's cut from the same neoliberal warmongering cloth as Bush.

She may be, but we have no evidence on Hillary at. Bothe moment that remotely compares to what Bush did.
She is a sociopath. It doesn't have to be DEFCON Cheney to be odious. Hillary as prez would keep the wars going. The Clintons are arseholes.

Cheney, the only man in the same ballbag class as pillory, maggots both.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on March 09, 2016, 09:52:12 AM
Bernie Sanders is the only candidate running for either nomination that has morals, a desire to serve and an ideology. You may not stand fully behind his inclusive outlook or his social conscience - I personally do - but the man has integrity,  a political record of standing up for what he believes (popular or not) and unlike every one of the rest is not a self serving egomaniac.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2016, 12:55:05 PM
Quote from: stew on March 09, 2016, 07:21:18 AM
Clinton loses a 21 point lead in Michigan, loses a lot of black voters to Sanders and he wins Michigan in a stunning upset, hell slap it up you pro establishment liberal neanderthals, time to get on the Bernie bandwagon because the primaries are coming north and Clinton has had her ass handed to her there.

If I had a vote and I had to choose between Trump and any democrat I would abstain. I wish to correct that, if Sanders runs against Trump I would vote fir Sanders.

This country is begging for change, I hope Sanders kills Clinton's career and goes on to with the. Nomination,

A wise man once said 'may you live in interesting times' I believe we are living in interesting times, who knows, as her stock continues to falter maybe the FBI will grow a pair and prosecute the horrible twat.
Really fascinating times with such a volatile election. Clinton should be miles ahead but has trouble connecting with voters. And the GOP crisis is amazing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2016, 02:24:33 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 09, 2016, 09:52:12 AM
Bernie Sanders is the only candidate running for either nomination that has morals, a desire to serve and an ideology. You may not stand fully behind his inclusive outlook or his social conscience - I personally do - but the man has integrity,  a political record of standing up for what he believes (popular or not) and unlike every one of the rest is not a self serving egomaniac.
Agreed. Sanders talks a lot of sense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 09, 2016, 04:02:36 PM
That Obama lad's administration are some bleeding hearts alright

https://freedom.press/blog/2016/03/new-documents-show-obama-admin-aggressively-lobbied-kill-transparency-reform-congress (https://freedom.press/blog/2016/03/new-documents-show-obama-admin-aggressively-lobbied-kill-transparency-reform-congress)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 09, 2016, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 08, 2016, 06:23:01 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 08, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
Presume we can expect more of this if he gets the nomination
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-ox D.C.ver-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html)

Shock horror deccy baby, Clinton has american blood on her hands, is under investigation by the feds for her handling of national secrets but you tend to speculate on the Donald and his ties to the mafia, why would a bleeding heart like you go after one if your own?

Declan,Benghazi, Clinton go.

You would swear the last Republican presidency never ever happened. All those dead Americans. All those dead foreigners. All based on lies. But forget that, lets look at H

illary's emails.

Liberals always play the whabout card, what's done is done and bush was a disgrace, how the f**k does that relate to Clinton running fir president, you liberals are never accountable for anything, stick to the present, man the f**k up and talk about the issues, the bush administration is dead, gone.

Patronizing gobshites get flippant when they defend the indefensible, your hero is a low life money grabbing, people killing sack of shire, her emails are of massive concern but hey, if it does not suit the liberal agenda downplay it, Sanders for president in 2016.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 09, 2016, 10:26:18 PM
Quote from: stew on March 09, 2016, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 08, 2016, 06:23:01 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 08, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
Presume we can expect more of this if he gets the nomination
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-ox D.C.ver-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html)

Shock horror deccy baby, Clinton has american blood on her hands, is under investigation by the feds for her handling of national secrets but you tend to speculate on the Donald and his ties to the mafia, why would a bleeding heart like you go after one if your own?

Declan,Benghazi, Clinton go.

You would swear the last Republican presidency never ever happened. All those dead Americans. All those dead foreigners. All based on lies. But forget that, lets look at H

illary's emails.

Liberals always play the whabout card, what's done is done and bush was a disgrace, how the f**k does that relate to Clinton running fir president, you liberals are never accountable for anything, stick to the present, man the f**k up and talk about the issues, the bush administration is dead, gone.

Patronizing gobshites get flippant when they defend the indefensible, your hero is a low life money grabbing, people killing sack of shire, her emails are of massive concern but hey, if it does not suit the liberal agenda downplay it, Sanders for president in 2016.

Stew, do you talk like that to people in real life?

Serious question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 10, 2016, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2016, 10:26:18 PM
Quote from: stew on March 09, 2016, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 08, 2016, 06:23:01 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 08, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
Presume we can expect more of this if he gets the nomination
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-ox D.C.ver-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html)

Shock horror deccy baby, Clinton has american blood on her hands, is under investigation by the feds for her handling of national secrets but you tend to speculate on the Donald and his ties to the mafia, why would a bleeding heart like you go after one if your own?

Declan,Benghazi, Clinton go.

You would swear the last Republican presidency never ever happened. All those dead Americans. All those dead foreigners. All based on lies. But forget that, lets look at H

illary's emails.

Liberals always play the whabout card, what's done is done and bush was a disgrace, how the f**k does that relate to Clinton running fir president, you liberals are never accountable for anything, stick to the present, man the f**k up and talk about the issues, the bush administration is dead, gone.

Patronizing gobshites get flippant when they defend the indefensible, your hero is a low life money grabbing, people killing sack of shire, her emails are of massive concern but hey, if it does not suit the liberal agenda downplay it, Sanders for president in 2016.

Stew, do you talk like that to people in real life?

Serious question.

Not really, I have mates that think like you do and if politics is brought up we could agree to disagree,for some reason I get more passionate on here, maybe its the fact that many put their faith in a bunch of bent millionAires who do not give two shites about them, and they blindly follow the  liberal agenda, all the while disregarding anything a conservative has to say, that to me smacks of arrogance and ignorance.

Question for you muppet, when Eamonnica goes after conservatives with harsh rrhetoric have you ever asked him the question I just answered here?

Finally, I stand by every word I have written on Clinton, in my lifetime I have only hated thatcher, pelosi and clinton, cheney is right there too, odious scum the lot of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 10, 2016, 09:51:48 AM
And there was me thinking Bernie Sanders would only appeal to libtards. Some man for one man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 10, 2016, 10:03:16 AM
Quote from: stew on March 10, 2016, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2016, 10:26:18 PM
Quote from: stew on March 09, 2016, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 08, 2016, 06:23:01 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 08, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
Presume we can expect more of this if he gets the nomination
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-ox D.C.ver-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html)

Shock horror deccy baby, Clinton has american blood on her hands, is under investigation by the feds for her handling of national secrets but you tend to speculate on the Donald and his ties to the mafia, why would a bleeding heart like you go after one if your own?

Declan,Benghazi, Clinton go.

You would swear the last Republican presidency never ever happened. All those dead Americans. All those dead foreigners. All based on lies. But forget that, lets look at H

illary's emails.

Liberals always play the whabout card, what's done is done and bush was a disgrace, how the f**k does that relate to Clinton running fir president, you liberals are never accountable for anything, stick to the present, man the f**k up and talk about the issues, the bush administration is dead, gone.

Patronizing gobshites get flippant when they defend the indefensible, your hero is a low life money grabbing, people killing sack of shire, her emails are of massive concern but hey, if it does not suit the liberal agenda downplay it, Sanders for president in 2016.

Stew, do you talk like that to people in real life?

Serious question.

Not really, I have mates that think like you do and if politics is brought up we could agree to disagree,for some reason I get more passionate on here, maybe its the fact that many put their faith in a bunch of bent millionAires who do not give two shites about them, and they blindly follow the  liberal agenda, all the while disregarding anything a conservative has to say, that to me smacks of arrogance and ignorance.

Question for you muppet, when Eamonnica goes after conservatives with harsh rrhetoric have you ever asked him the question I just answered here?

Finally, I stand by every word I have written on Clinton, in my lifetime I have only hated thatcher, pelosi and clinton, cheney is right there too, odious scum the lot of them.

Straight answer, no.

His 'harsh rhetoric' is nothing compared to what you are writing. He usually has a point too, not that I agree with them all, in fact I often I don't. I think US politics is riddled with corruption (they call it lobbying) and would love to see both parties scrapped.

But back to the election. Between Clinton and Sanders, only Clinton is remotely electable in the US. In Europe Sanders would walk it, but not over there. On the other side unless something major happens, it will be Trump, or Trumpette (Cruz). If either get in the US would re-enter isolationism which would be bad for everyone. So bad and all as she is, the only logical vote is Hillary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 10, 2016, 10:29:59 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2016, 10:03:16 AM
Quote from: stew on March 10, 2016, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2016, 10:26:18 PM
Quote from: stew on March 09, 2016, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 08, 2016, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 08, 2016, 06:23:01 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 08, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
Presume we can expect more of this if he gets the nomination
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-ox D.C.ver-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html)

Shock horror deccy baby, Clinton has american blood on her hands, is under investigation by the feds for her handling of national secrets but you tend to speculate on the Donald and his ties to the mafia, why would a bleeding heart like you go after one if your own?

Declan,Benghazi, Clinton go.

You would swear the last Republican presidency never ever happened. All those dead Americans. All those dead foreigners. All based on lies. But forget that, lets look at H

illary's emails.

Liberals always play the whabout card, what's done is done and bush was a disgrace, how the f**k does that relate to Clinton running fir president, you liberals are never accountable for anything, stick to the present, man the f**k up and talk about the issues, the bush administration is dead, gone.

Patronizing gobshites get flippant when they defend the indefensible, your hero is a low life money grabbing, people killing sack of shire, her emails are of massive concern but hey, if it does not suit the liberal agenda downplay it, Sanders for president in 2016.

Stew, do you talk like that to people in real life?

Serious question.

Not really, I have mates that think like you do and if politics is brought up we could agree to disagree,for some reason I get more passionate on here, maybe its the fact that many put their faith in a bunch of bent millionAires who do not give two shites about them, and they blindly follow the  liberal agenda, all the while disregarding anything a conservative has to say, that to me smacks of arrogance and ignorance.

Question for you muppet, when Eamonnica goes after conservatives with harsh rrhetoric have you ever asked him the question I just answered here?

Finally, I stand by every word I have written on Clinton, in my lifetime I have only hated thatcher, pelosi and clinton, cheney is right there too, odious scum the lot of them.

Straight answer, no.

His 'harsh rhetoric' is nothing compared to what you are writing. He usually has a point too, not that I agree with them all, in fact I often I don't. I think US politics is riddled with corruption (they call it lobbying) and would love to see both parties scrapped.

But back to the election. Between Clinton and Sanders, only Clinton is remotely electable in the US. In Europe Sanders would walk it, but not over there. On the other side unless something major happens, it will be Trump, or Trumpette (Cruz). If either get in the US would re-enter isolationism which would be bad for everyone. So bad and all as she is, the only logical vote is Hillary.

Such nonsense, Clinton is hopefully going to be behind bars, if not not she is fast losing ground to Sanders, take a gander at her numbers on the question of whether she is truthful or not, no one is less trusted than that ballbag.

Americans seem to want to turn Washington upside down, to me only one man could do that, one one player is honest and decent and although I disagree with him a ton, I will take a chance on Sanders over any one if those other gobshites, I am feeling the Bern.

BS for president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 10, 2016, 10:45:48 AM
(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmediabiasfactcheck.files.wordpress.com%2F2015%2F12%2Ftruthfulness.jpg%3Fw%3D690%26h%3D469&f=1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2016, 02:11:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHHewmk3_P8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 10, 2016, 09:17:23 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 10, 2016, 09:51:48 AM
And there was me thinking Bernie Sanders would only appeal to libtards. Some man for one man.

He does not appeal to me other than his character does, as does his integrity and decency, I thought long and hard before posting my support for him but in the end, if I had stuck to hoping a conservative had won I would have been a complete hypocrite given my disdain for clinton and beating liberals over the head for supporting her, despite her lack of an ethical compass.

Only one man is out to,improve the lives of the people and,it,is Saunders, if the yanks want change they may as well have it under the guidance of an honest man, and not an egomaniac millionaire/billionaire.

Today I lost six facebook friends because I switched allegiances, great, if you are not open to the possibility of change you are doomed to live in a bubble because change is constant, timeless and inevitable.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2016, 09:26:28 PM
Quote from: stew on March 10, 2016, 09:17:23 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 10, 2016, 09:51:48 AM
And there was me thinking Bernie Sanders would only appeal to libtards. Some man for one man.

He does not appeal to me other than his character does, as does his integrity and decency, I thought long and hard before posting my support for him but in the end, if I had stuck to hoping a conservative had won I would have been a complete hypocrite given my disdain for clinton and beating liberals over the head for supporting her, despite her lack of an ethical compass.

Only one man is out to,improve the lives of the people and,it,is Saunders, if the yanks want change they may as well have it under the guidance of an honest man, and not an egomaniac millionaire/billionaire.

Today I lost six facebook friends because I switched allegiances, great, if you are not open to the possibility of change you are doomed to live in a bubble because change is constant, timeless and inevitable.

Seriously?

Get some new friends stew if they're so sensitive that they drop you just because you have a different political opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 10, 2016, 10:26:20 PM
Really, Stew? You're better off without them.  Sanders does seem like a decent chap, but I still don't think he'll win, mostly now because Clinton will probably snag the nomination, given that she has all those Superdelegates sown up.  Seems decidedly undemocratic.  And the prospect of either Trump or Cruz is nauseating.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 11, 2016, 12:43:17 AM
Quote from: deiseach on March 10, 2016, 09:51:48 AM
And there was me thinking Bernie Sanders would only appeal to libtards. Some man for one man.

He is obviously a Republican plant.

The fun will begin when Trump and Bernie get the nominations and then everyone will have to switch sides.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2016, 08:35:13 AM
Observation: I'm seeing Bernie bumper stickers and Bernie signs everywhere I look. I don't even know what a Hillary sign or sticker looks like, I've yet to see one. Same pattern on my FB feed. I only know of one Hillary fan, everyone else is for Bernie. This all anecdotal and California's to the left of most states, but there it is.

As for "having to vote for Hillary because she has a better chance of beating Trump," I'm not sure if the polling data supports this. And even the polls can't be trusted now after what happened in Michigan.  A Bernie presidency is not out of the question at this point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Longshanks on March 11, 2016, 11:47:07 AM
I'm love Sanders to win the nomination but even if he got from there to to be president although I think his ideals are great and I agree with the majority of what he says and what he wants to do sadly it would be clinton who would have the most friends and push in office to get things done, that said why not let sanders have a go. Rock the estbalishment.

Trump has his nomination sewn up imo and it will be interesting to see how the party veterans works with him for the election, find it bizarre still that people are sucked in by his hate talk etc.. to run a country you want someone who can talk sense, know their economics and unite the country, all trump seems to care about is the us and against them which is sadly working well so far.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on March 11, 2016, 11:52:42 AM
Saw this comment below a Bernie Saunders CNN article and thought it was good;

"I hope Bernie Sanders is elected president so all the people who support Trump get the mental health care they so desperately need"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Longshanks on March 11, 2016, 11:55:00 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 11, 2016, 11:52:42 AM
Saw this comment below a Bernie Saunders CNN article and thought it was good;

"I hope Bernie Sanders is elected president so all the people who support Trump get the mental health care they so desperately need"

I can't quite believe that the country would get it so wrong and vote for trump but then again this is the country who put Bush in for a second term so nothing would surprise me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 11, 2016, 12:03:10 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 11, 2016, 11:52:42 AM
Saw this comment below a Bernie Saunders CNN article and thought it was good;

"I hope Bernie Sanders is elected president so all the people who support Trump get the mental health care they so desperately need"

That is brilliant!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 11, 2016, 01:42:31 PM
Sanders said he would end all trade deals, as trade deals cost American jobs.

That's pretty odd economic thinking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 11, 2016, 02:20:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 11, 2016, 01:42:31 PM
Sanders said he would end all trade deals, as trade deals cost American jobs.

That's pretty odd economic thinking.

Bernie is a socialist.....he knows nothing about economics. He's never had a real job in his life

Personally, I like him......but I find it hard to see how he will get half of this stuff through.

As crazy as Trump is I honestly think he has a shot of becoming president regardless of what the polls say. At the end of the day, the election is decided by the swing voters in swing states....which is about 10% of the population of about 9 states.  He doesn't have to convince too many people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 11, 2016, 02:45:56 PM
QuoteAt the end of the day, the election is decided by the swing voters in swing states....which is about 10% of the population of about 9 states.  He doesn't have to convince too many people

+1 - one man one vote and all that ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 11, 2016, 03:00:05 PM
While swing states obviously matter, they are not immune to national trends. I remember Bob Dole making the point that if he and Gerald Ford could have found 6,000 or so Carter voters in Ohio and convinced them to switch their vote, Ford would have won the 1976 election, and that's true in itself. But you don't pitch your campaign at individuals, you pitch it at groups. Had Ford/Dole found something to appeal to those voters, it might have alienated someone else. And I find it really hard to believe that anyone thinks that Trump hasn't alienated at least a few people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 11, 2016, 03:08:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 11, 2016, 03:00:05 PM
While swing states obviously matter, they are not immune to national trends. I remember Bob Dole making the point that if he and Gerald Ford could have found 6,000 or so Carter voters in Ohio and convinced them to switch their vote, Ford would have won the 1976 election, and that's true in itself. But you don't pitch your campaign at individuals, you pitch it at groups. Had Ford/Dole found something to appeal to those voters, it might have alienated someone else. And I find it really hard to believe that anyone thinks that Trump hasn't alienated at least a few people.

Maybe, but the amount of $hit that the GOP will unleash on either Hillary or Bernie will be epic.

I really think this election cycle is different....like when Hillary tied to use Bill to attack Trump and it backfired spectacularly.  If she tries to use Chelsea, guess what, she's married o a Wall St Hedge Fund guy and lives in a $10 M house.....Bernie hasn't hit hit her anywhere near as hard as the are Repubs.  will
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 11, 2016, 03:16:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 11, 2016, 03:08:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 11, 2016, 03:00:05 PM
While swing states obviously matter, they are not immune to national trends. I remember Bob Dole making the point that if he and Gerald Ford could have found 6,000 or so Carter voters in Ohio and convinced them to switch their vote, Ford would have won the 1976 election, and that's true in itself. But you don't pitch your campaign at individuals, you pitch it at groups. Had Ford/Dole found something to appeal to those voters, it might have alienated someone else. And I find it really hard to believe that anyone thinks that Trump hasn't alienated at least a few people.

Maybe, but the amount of $hit that the GOP will unleash on either Hillary or Bernie will be epic.

I really think this election cycle is different....like when Hillary tied to use Bill to attack Trump and it backfired spectacularly.  If she tries to use Chelsea, guess what, she's married o a Wall St Hedge Fund guy and lives in a $10 M house.....Bernie hasn't hit hit her anywhere near as hard as the are Repubs.  will

So they should pull out and leave it to the GOP then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 11, 2016, 03:34:09 PM
On the basis that support for the Democratic candidate is as much about keeping a Republican out of the White House as anything else, one of the reasons to support Hillary as opposed to Bernie is that the GOP have already thrown every amount of crap imaginable at her. You either believe that the Clintons murdered Vince Foster or you believe the truth. It's Bernie and the bros who are in for a shock-and-awe should he win the Dem nomination.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 11, 2016, 03:37:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 11, 2016, 03:16:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 11, 2016, 03:08:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 11, 2016, 03:00:05 PM
While swing states obviously matter, they are not immune to national trends. I remember Bob Dole making the point that if he and Gerald Ford could have found 6,000 or so Carter voters in Ohio and convinced them to switch their vote, Ford would have won the 1976 election, and that's true in itself. But you don't pitch your campaign at individuals, you pitch it at groups. Had Ford/Dole found something to appeal to those voters, it might have alienated someone else. And I find it really hard to believe that anyone thinks that Trump hasn't alienated at least a few people.

Maybe, but the amount of $hit that the GOP will unleash on either Hillary or Bernie will be epic.

I really think this election cycle is different....like when Hillary tied to use Bill to attack Trump and it backfired spectacularly.  If she tries to use Chelsea, guess what, she's married o a Wall St Hedge Fund guy and lives in a $10 M house.....Bernie hasn't hit hit her anywhere near as hard as the are Repubs.  will

So they should pull out and leave it to the GOP then?

Who ever said or proposed that?????

Getting attacked by Bernie is like being attacked by a chichaua.

In the first debate, he could have nailed her on the email controversy and instead punted....could have been game over right there for Hillar
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 11, 2016, 03:54:15 PM
If the amount of sh!t the GOP will unleash on Sanders or Clinton is 'epic', surely you believe it will be very effective and scupper their chances? Otherwise why mention it??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 11, 2016, 03:54:45 PM
First Christie and now Carson backing Trump??

Is he paying these guys off or what the hell are they doing?!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 11, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 11, 2016, 03:54:15 PM
If the amount of sh!t the GOP will unleash on Sanders or Clinton is 'epic', surely you believe it will be very effective and scupper their chances? Otherwise why mention it??

I'm not following you...am I prohibited from expressing an opinion?

I thought that's what one did in a discussion board
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 11, 2016, 04:21:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 11, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 11, 2016, 03:54:15 PM
If the amount of sh!t the GOP will unleash on Sanders or Clinton is 'epic', surely you believe it will be very effective and scupper their chances? Otherwise why mention it??

I'm not following you...am I prohibited from expressing an opinion?

I thought that's what one did in a discussion board

I am asking you to expand on your opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 11, 2016, 04:58:59 PM
Dear NBC,f

I am  currently trying to get the Republican nomination to be the next President of the USA.  I will of course need to form a cabinet and I propose to use the Apprentice format  and would of course offer you Full access to the trials I  would use to ensure they have the right stuff to help  govern the country.  (of course Latino, Orientals Caucasian preferred.  Nobody that would remind people of Obama)



You can  thank me later,



Donald Trump.

   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2016, 05:41:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 11, 2016, 03:54:15 PM
If the amount of sh!t the GOP will unleash on Sanders or Clinton is 'epic', surely you believe it will be very effective and scupper their chances? Otherwise why mention it??
It will convince GOP voters but nobody else. The GOP needs to convince the 20% in the middle and can.t
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 11, 2016, 05:49:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2016, 05:41:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 11, 2016, 03:54:15 PM
If the amount of sh!t the GOP will unleash on Sanders or Clinton is 'epic', surely you believe it will be very effective and scupper their chances? Otherwise why mention it??
It will convince GOP voters but nobody else. The GOP needs to convince the 20% in the middle and can.t

That would be my thinking as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2016, 07:21:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 11, 2016, 03:08:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 11, 2016, 03:00:05 PM
While swing states obviously matter, they are not immune to national trends. I remember Bob Dole making the point that if he and Gerald Ford could have found 6,000 or so Carter voters in Ohio and convinced them to switch their vote, Ford would have won the 1976 election, and that's true in itself. But you don't pitch your campaign at individuals, you pitch it at groups. Had Ford/Dole found something to appeal to those voters, it might have alienated someone else. And I find it really hard to believe that anyone thinks that Trump hasn't alienated at least a few people.

Maybe, but the amount of $hit that the GOP will unleash on either Hillary or Bernie will be epic.

I really think this election cycle is different....like when Hillary tied to use Bill to attack Trump and it backfired spectacularly.  If she tries to use Chelsea, guess what, she's married o a Wall St Hedge Fund guy and lives in a $10 M house.....Bernie hasn't hit hit her anywhere near as hard as the are Repubs.  will

The GOP is going to go after Hillary for her Wall St ties? Seriously?  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2016, 07:25:13 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 11, 2016, 01:42:31 PM
Sanders said he would end all trade deals, as trade deals cost American jobs.

That's pretty odd economic thinking.

Trump is going on about the same shit too.

I'm sure if hits home with blue collar workers whose manufacturing jobs have been shipped over seas, but just what do people think will happen when Trump or Sanders breaks deals and launches trade wars?

Cheap goods and food come with a cost. That cost is outsourcing and globalization.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2016, 08:57:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2016, 07:25:13 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 11, 2016, 01:42:31 PM
Sanders said he would end all trade deals, as trade deals cost American jobs.

That's pretty odd economic thinking.

Trump is going on about the same shit too.

I'm sure if hits home with blue collar workers whose manufacturing jobs have been shipped over seas, but just what do people think will happen when Trump or Sanders breaks deals and launches trade wars?

Cheap goods and food come with a cost. That cost is outsourcing and globalization.
globalisation gets blamed but the real enemy of muintir trump is the home based 1% who control 40% of US wealth. Trump is like a holding operation for popular anger. He won't go near income inequality. Neither will the GOP leadership.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 11, 2016, 09:14:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2016, 07:21:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 11, 2016, 03:08:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 11, 2016, 03:00:05 PM
While swing states obviously matter, they are not immune to national trends. I remember Bob Dole making the point that if he and Gerald Ford could have found 6,000 or so Carter voters in Ohio and convinced them to switch their vote, Ford would have won the 1976 election, and that's true in itself. But you don't pitch your campaign at individuals, you pitch it at groups. Had Ford/Dole found something to appeal to those voters, it might have alienated someone else. And I find it really hard to believe that anyone thinks that Trump hasn't alienated at least a few people.

Maybe, but the amount of $hit that the GOP will unleash on either Hillary or Bernie will be epic.

I really think this election cycle is different....like when Hillary tied to use Bill to attack Trump and it backfired spectacularly.  If she tries to use Chelsea, guess what, she's married o a Wall St Hedge Fund guy and lives in a $10 M house.....Bernie hasn't hit hit her anywhere near as hard as the are Repubs.  will

The GOP is going to go after Hillary for her Wall St ties? Seriously?  ;D

Well she definitely won't be able to go after them for THEIR Wall St ties given all the $$ she creamed off Wall St giving speeches. (Whose transcripts haven't bee released)

Regarding making college more afgordable, how is she going to villianize them when she charged various colleges something like $250 K for a 30 min speech

Someone with "trustworthy" and "likeability" numbers like Hillary has, could be very vulnerable to an all out GOP attack....as I said Bernie is like a chichaua compared to what Trump or Cruz will be like
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2016, 10:53:29 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/03/09/trump-lead-how-did-this-happen/

Marco Rubio, once the vessel for the great hopes of a number of Republicans and feared by numerous Clinton supporters, has turned out to be the synthetic candidate. Some observers sensed early on that the vessel was empty, but Rubio's youth and Hispanic background were supposed to make him the most dazzling of the Republican hopefuls and a real threat to Clinton. He is but the latest example of that puzzling "intuition" that overcomes people supposedly in the know—members of the press, political operatives, donors—that so-and-so is the hot candidate


Stuart Stevens, a well-connected Republican operative and a major figure in the Romney campaign in 2012 who is still in touch with him, told me this week, if Trump is nominated "I think 100 percent there will be a third party." (He declined to comment about whether Romney might lead it.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 01:37:50 AM
See The fascists were out in force in Chicago tonight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2016, 01:56:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 11, 2016, 09:14:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2016, 07:21:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 11, 2016, 03:08:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 11, 2016, 03:00:05 PM
While swing states obviously matter, they are not immune to national trends. I remember Bob Dole making the point that if he and Gerald Ford could have found 6,000 or so Carter voters in Ohio and convinced them to switch their vote, Ford would have won the 1976 election, and that's true in itself. But you don't pitch your campaign at individuals, you pitch it at groups. Had Ford/Dole found something to appeal to those voters, it might have alienated someone else. And I find it really hard to believe that anyone thinks that Trump hasn't alienated at least a few people.

Maybe, but the amount of $hit that the GOP will unleash on either Hillary or Bernie will be epic.

I really think this election cycle is different....like when Hillary tied to use Bill to attack Trump and it backfired spectacularly.  If she tries to use Chelsea, guess what, she's married o a Wall St Hedge Fund guy and lives in a $10 M house.....Bernie hasn't hit hit her anywhere near as hard as the are Repubs.  will

The GOP is going to go after Hillary for her Wall St ties? Seriously?  ;D

Well she definitely won't be able to go after them for THEIR Wall St ties given all the $$ she creamed off Wall St giving speeches. (Whose transcripts haven't bee released)

She should absolutely release the transcripts.

And so should any Republicans, although I doubt if anyone would raise an eyebrow at their palling up to Wall St. They're the ones, after all, crying non-stop about Dodd Frank reforms and consumer protection and so on.

Quote from: whitey on March 11, 2016, 09:14:23 PM
Regarding making college more afgordable, how is she going to villianize them when she charged various colleges something like $250 K for a 30 min speech

Apparently its not that unusual for colleges to fork out for these types of speaking engagements, although its on the higher end for women. Condoleeza Rice made $150K from the University of Minnesota, while Palin made $100K.

Trump apparently took in $1.5 million per speech ten years ago in a series of seminars for the Learning Annex. Giuliani got $75K in 2005 for a commencement speech.

According to Time, "universities defend such fees as necessary and worthwhile because they raise the profile of their institutions and help attract new students and increase involvement and donations from alumni."

So it appears universities reckon they will get a very decent return on their investment. Presumably there are plenty of seats reserved for the bigger donors to ensure this.

And even if Hillary is a hypocrite, it doesn't make her point about the cost of tuition any less true.

Quote from: whitey on March 11, 2016, 09:14:23 PM
Someone with "trustworthy" and "likeability" numbers like Hillary has, could be very vulnerable to an all out GOP attack....as I said Bernie is like a chichaua compared to what Trump or Cruz will be like

And equally, the Clinton machine will go to war with whoever the GOP nominee is. The GOP themselves are already laying some very nice groundwork.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2016, 01:57:57 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 01:37:50 AM
See The fascists were out in force in Chicago tonight.

The irony! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 12, 2016, 02:08:00 AM
Demanding to fly in a private jet too for most speeches.....the hypocrisy is astounding
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 03:12:10 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 01:37:50 AM
See The fascists were out in force in Chicago tonight.

It's okay, they were sent packing by anti-Trump protestors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 04:27:22 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 03:12:10 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 01:37:50 AM
See The fascists were out in force in Chicago tonight.

It's okay, they were sent packing by anti-Trump protestors.
Rachel Maddow agrees with you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on March 12, 2016, 04:27:39 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 03:12:10 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 01:37:50 AM
See The fascists were out in force in Chicago tonight.

It's okay, they were sent packing by anti-Trump protestors.

Funny just watched it on TV, and if you emphatize with that bunch of Aholes then God help you
The disruptors are very similar to the movement that propelled our current leader eight years ago
Really wonder if you asked the majority of the college kids who thought it was cool back then what they think now as 27 or 28 year olds what their answer would be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 12, 2016, 08:45:05 AM
Funny question that.

Most people i know who voted Obama, and who arent happy with how it turned out, actually blame the GOP for not providing a viable alternative. McCain : Palin?  What were they thinking with that VP choice? Blew his chances.
Romney? After that nomination process, he was the most uncharismatic candidate. Couldnt undo the damage inflicted by his own party's nomination mud slinging. He was the US version of John Major. 

Same nomination process is going to do for the GOP again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 12, 2016, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: joemamas on March 12, 2016, 04:27:39 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 03:12:10 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 01:37:50 AM
See The fascists were out in force in Chicago tonight.

It's okay, they were sent packing by anti-Trump protestors.

Funny just watched it on TV, and if you emphatize with that bunch of Aholes then God help you
The disruptors are very similar to the movement that propelled our current leader eight years ago
Really wonder if you asked the majority of the college kids who thought it was cool back then what they think now as 27 or 28 year olds what their answer would be.

Freedom of speech is guaranteed under the constitution. Even speech that you find objectionable is protected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2016, 01:07:12 PM
It was only a matter of time before wider scale trouble broke out at Trump's rallies. He's on record multiple times saying how he himself would love to punch protestors and vowing to pay the legal bills of those who did. There have been multiple examples recently of his followers actually following through on his rabble rousing and assaulting protestors. That a college campus on a Friday night would see some opposing people out to meet like with like was inevitable. Trump brought this shit on himself. f**k him.

(His campaign manager even threw a sympathetic female reporter, from Breitbart, of all places, to the floor the other night)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2016, 02:05:48 PM
US politics has a history of violence. The GOP went too often to the well of racism. Trump with his Islamophobia and rants against Latinos brings the argument even lower.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 02:23:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2016, 11:36:39 AM

Freedom of speech is guaranteed under the constitution. Even speech that you find objectionable is protected.


The First Amendment only stops the government from censoring you. It doesn't stop private citizens from doing so. I can still tell you to shut up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
If Trump is hiring a hall for a rally and admitting who he wants, he has every right to restrict speech. Its a private event.

The issue is the violent rhetoric and action against protestors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
If Trump is hiring a hall for a rally and admitting who he wants, he has every right to restrict speech. Its a private event.

The issue is the violent rhetoric and action against protestors.
So did the protesters last night go there to give trump supporters what they are looking for ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 06:40:29 PM
Sauce for the goose, Foxy boy. If the "throw him out" doctrine is good enough for the anti Trump crowd then it's good enough for Trump himself. Suck it up, buttercup. The plane's over there. Get on it and get out of here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 12, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 06:40:29 PM
Sauce for the goose, Foxy boy. If the "throw him out" doctrine is good enough for the anti Trump crowd then it's good enough for Trump himself. Suck it up, buttercup. The plane's over there. Get on it and get out of here.

Sauce for the goose, you liberal apologist idiot, you realize you are actually justifying the actions of these rioting arseholes?

When the rule of law suits not the libtards the ah sure f**k it flies out if your mealy mouths, sickening, you are every bit as bad as the c***ts that did the looting and the United fans who brought up the two Liverpool tradegies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 06:40:29 PM
The plane's over there. Get on it and get out of here.

I agree with your point Eamon on trying to get the illegal immigrants and undesirables on the plane and get them out.
Maybe there's hope for you yet.

Ireland should pay attention. Today the USA is overrun, Europe is on its way too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
If Trump is hiring a hall for a rally and admitting who he wants, he has every right to restrict speech. Its a private event.

The issue is the violent rhetoric and action against protestors.
So did the protesters last night go there to give trump supporters what they are looking for ?

I've no idea. But college campus, Friday night, probably plenty of booze... I'm sure you can see how things could escalate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:41:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 06:40:29 PM
The plane's over there. Get on it and get out of here.

I agree with your point Eamon on trying to get the illegal immigrants and undesirables on the plane and get them out.
Maybe there's hope for you yet.

Ireland should pay attention. Today the USA is overrun, Europe is on its way too.

The US is overrun? By what? ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:43:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Of course there hasn't been a murmur from you over Trump supporters, including known white supremacists, threatening journalists and beating up protestors, all the while egged on by the "great" man himself.

Pathetic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 12, 2016, 09:01:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:41:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 06:40:29 PM
The plane's over there. Get on it and get out of here.

I agree with your point Eamon on trying to get the illegal immigrants and undesirables on the plane and get them out.
Maybe there's hope for you yet.

Ireland should pay attention. Today the USA is overrun, Europe is on its way too.

The US is overrun? By what? ;D

Illegal European land grabbers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 06:52:17 PM
I agree with your point Eamon on trying to get the ... undesirables on the plane and get them out.

So you agree with deporting conservative fascists? Good for you.

See? I can do it too. I can take a random sentence out of context, butcher it, and change its meaning. It's not difficult. If a conservative Fox News-watching imbecile like you can do it, anybody can.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 12, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.
Bizarre your hatred of the "libtards" in the US considering your support the "libtards" in Ireland!! And the Shinners being a helluva lot more left wing than the Democrats!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 12:13:49 AM
What is a "libtard" anyway?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 13, 2016, 12:28:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 12:13:49 AM
What is a "libtard" anyway?

I am guessing it is either liberal + retard, or liberal + bastard.

Either way, you can see why Trump gets followers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:05:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
If Trump is hiring a hall for a rally and admitting who he wants, he has every right to restrict speech. Its a private event.

The issue is the violent rhetoric and action against protestors.
So did the protesters last night go there to give trump supporters what they are looking for ?

I've no idea. But college campus, Friday night, probably plenty of booze... I'm sure you can see how things could escalate.

No. The police should have arrested them all for public disorder if that was the case. But you know you're telling lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:07:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:43:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Of course there hasn't been a murmur from you over Trump supporters, including known white supremacists, threatening journalists and beating up protestors, all the while egged on by the "great" man himself.

Pathetic.

Ah the usual libtard tricks of pulling out the racism card.
Illegals are just that - illegal. Should be deported, every single one of them, irish included.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:10:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:05:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
If Trump is hiring a hall for a rally and admitting who he wants, he has every right to restrict speech. Its a private event.

The issue is the violent rhetoric and action against protestors.
So did the protesters last night go there to give trump supporters what they are looking for ?

I've no idea. But college campus, Friday night, probably plenty of booze... I'm sure you can see how things could escalate.

No. The police should have arrested them all for public disorder if that was the case. But you know you're telling lies.

Who the f**k are you to say I know I'm telling lies?

What am I lying about genius?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:10:30 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2016, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 06:52:17 PM
I agree with your point Eamon on trying to get the ... undesirables on the plane and get them out.

So you agree with deporting conservative fascists? Good for you.

See? I can do it too. I can take a random sentence out of context, butcher it, and change its meaning. It's not difficult. If a conservative Fox News-watching imbecile like you can do it, anybody can.

no, I was talking about illegal immigrants. If you don't have the correct permit/paperwork/permission you shouldn't be there.

Your argument that legitimate citizens should leave makes no sense. But keep making yourself look foolish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:14:07 AM
Quote from: Hound on March 12, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.
Bizarre your hatred of the "libtards" in the US considering your support the "libtards" in Ireland!! And the Shinners being a helluva lot more left wing than the Democrats!

You have nothing to support your allegation. The Kenyan bloke who has "irish roots" (ffs) and his supporters are a joke and deserve the label.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:07:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:43:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Of course there hasn't been a murmur from you over Trump supporters, including known white supremacists, threatening journalists and beating up protestors, all the while egged on by the "great" man himself.

Pathetic.

Ah the usual libtard tricks of pulling out the racism card.
Illegals are just that - illegal. Should be deported, every single one of them, irish included.

Don't blame me for Trump attracting white supremacists. It's been all the news the last few weeks, most notably his prevaricating on David Duke, but also, among other things, last week a known and self acknowledged white supremacist was captured on video assaulting a protestor and being interviewed afterwards saying he'd back off in future as he knew he'd be bad PR for Trump.

So f**k you and your racism card.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:17:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:10:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:05:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
If Trump is hiring a hall for a rally and admitting who he wants, he has every right to restrict speech. Its a private event.

The issue is the violent rhetoric and action against protestors.
So did the protesters last night go there to give trump supporters what they are looking for ?

I've no idea. But college campus, Friday night, probably plenty of booze... I'm sure you can see how things could escalate.

No. The police should have arrested them all for public disorder if that was the case. But you know you're telling lies.

Who the f**k are you to say I know I'm telling lies?


Because you actually know your statement was a lie. It was organised, not a spontaneous gathering of boozed up individuals.
Most of them probably can't spell the word "school" judging by the pictures.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:19:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:07:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:43:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Of course there hasn't been a murmur from you over Trump supporters, including known white supremacists, threatening journalists and beating up protestors, all the while egged on by the "great" man himself.

Pathetic.

Ah the usual libtard tricks of pulling out the racism card.
Illegals are just that - illegal. Should be deported, every single one of them, irish included.

Don't blame me for Trump attracting white supremacists. It's been all the news the last few weeks, most notably his prevaricating on David Duke, but also, among other things, last week a known and self acknowledged white supremacist was captured on video assaulting a protestor and being interviewed afterwards saying he'd back off in future as he knew he'd be bad PR for Trump.

So f**k you and your racism card.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson endorsed Obama. Your move.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:21:21 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:19:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:07:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:43:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Of course there hasn't been a murmur from you over Trump supporters, including known white supremacists, threatening journalists and beating up protestors, all the while egged on by the "great" man himself.

Pathetic.

Ah the usual libtard tricks of pulling out the racism card.
Illegals are just that - illegal. Should be deported, every single one of them, irish included.

Don't blame me for Trump attracting white supremacists. It's been all the news the last few weeks, most notably his prevaricating on David Duke, but also, among other things, last week a known and self acknowledged white supremacist was captured on video assaulting a protestor and being interviewed afterwards saying he'd back off in future as he knew he'd be bad PR for Trump.

So f**k you and your racism card.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson endorsed Obama. Your move.

And that has what exactly to do with me supposedly playing the racism card in my comments above on Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2016, 08:16:41 AM
He's basically saying Obama got elected because all the blacks voted for him. So he doesn't really count as president. It's the same mentality that's leading the Repukelicans to block Scalia's replacement on SCOTUS. They say it's a matter of etiquette and some BS "rule" that's not actually enforceable, but it's really because they don't want some uppity black dude telling them what to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on March 13, 2016, 10:50:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:07:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:43:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Of course there hasn't been a murmur from you over Trump supporters, including known white supremacists, threatening journalists and beating up protestors, all the while egged on by the "great" man himself.

Pathetic.

Ah the usual libtard tricks of pulling out the racism card.
Illegals are just that - illegal. Should be deported, every single one of them, irish included.

Do you personally know anyone who ever spent a day in the US illegally?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 13, 2016, 10:56:24 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 13, 2016, 10:50:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:07:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:43:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Of course there hasn't been a murmur from you over Trump supporters, including known white supremacists, threatening journalists and beating up protestors, all the while egged on by the "great" man himself.

Pathetic.

Ah the usual libtard tricks of pulling out the racism card.
Illegals are just that - illegal. Should be deported, every single one of them, irish included.

Do you personally know anyone who ever spent a day in the US illegally?

You could start with the Mayflower......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 13, 2016, 11:00:44 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2016, 08:16:41 AM
He's basically saying Obama got elected because all the blacks voted for him. So he doesn't really count as president. It's the same mentality that's leading the Repukelicans to block Scalia's replacement on SCOTUS. They say it's a matter of etiquette and some BS "rule" that's not actually enforceable, but it's really because they don't want some uppity black dude telling them what to do.


That last line dc  is nothing but ignorant tripe, stay off the pipe before posting and remember, Trump is a new liberal so he is one of your own,

The democrats have done exactly the same thing as the republicans are doing right now pertaining to the supreme court, don't be a hypocrite comrade, the last thing America needs is a liberal supreme court!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 13, 2016, 11:13:23 AM
Quote from: stew on March 13, 2016, 11:00:44 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2016, 08:16:41 AM
He's basically saying Obama got elected because all the blacks voted for him. So he doesn't really count as president. It's the same mentality that's leading the Repukelicans to block Scalia's replacement on SCOTUS. They say it's a matter of etiquette and some BS "rule" that's not actually enforceable, but it's really because they don't want some uppity black dude telling them what to do.


That last line dc  is nothing but ignorant tripe, stay off the pipe before posting and remember, Trump is a new liberal so he is one of your own,

The democrats have done exactly the same thing as the republicans are doing right now pertaining to the supreme court, don't be a hypocrite comrade, the last thing America needs is a liberal supreme court!

Unless of course you are one of the many people who don't vote Republican.

But hey, none of them matter, the libtards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 13, 2016, 11:48:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 13, 2016, 11:13:23 AM
Quote from: stew on March 13, 2016, 11:00:44 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2016, 08:16:41 AM
He's basically saying Obama got elected because all the blacks voted for him. So he doesn't really count as president. It's the same mentality that's leading the Repukelicans to block Scalia's replacement on SCOTUS. They say it's a matter of etiquette and some BS "rule" that's not actually enforceable, but it's really because they don't want some uppity black dude telling them what to do.


That last line dc  is nothing but ignorant tripe, stay off the pipe before posting and remember, Trump is a new liberal so he is one of your own,

The democrats have done exactly the same thing as the republicans are doing right now pertaining to the supreme court, don't be a hypocrite comrade, the last thing America needs is a liberal supreme court!

Unless of course you are one of the many people who don't vote Republican.

But hey, none of them matter, the libtards.
dc

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said they did not matter, of course they matter, its simply this, the republicans are not going to allow a liberal judge onto the supreme court under this idiot of a liberal president, there is precedent and it is strictly a political move, now if the shoe wad on the other foot you would nit be flapping your gums on this issue, the republicans are hoping, in vain that.they can carry the white house so that they can get a conservative judge in their and hold the majority, what the hell is wrong with that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 11:53:50 AM
Quote from: stew on March 13, 2016, 11:00:44 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2016, 08:16:41 AM
He's basically saying Obama got elected because all the blacks voted for him. So he doesn't really count as president. It's the same mentality that's leading the Repukelicans to block Scalia's replacement on SCOTUS. They say it's a matter of etiquette and some BS "rule" that's not actually enforceable, but it's really because they don't want some uppity black dude telling them what to do.


That last line dc  is nothing but ignorant tripe, stay off the pipe before posting and remember, Trump is a new liberal so he is one of your own,

The democrats have done exactly the same thing as the republicans are doing right now pertaining to the supreme court, don't be a hypocrite comrade, the last thing America needs is a liberal supreme court!

No, the Democrats have NOT done it. Reagan got his justice in his last year. A vacancy has not come up since. Sure, they've talked about it, but politicians make threats and play to their base all the time, especially in an election year. Actually following through is different, but its in keeping with the unprecedented obstructionism of the current Republican party in congress since Obama got elected.

And if Trump is secretly a liberal, he's doing a magical job of fooling the uneducated rubes with his conservative rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 11:58:08 AM
Quote from: stew on March 13, 2016, 11:48:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 13, 2016, 11:13:23 AM
Quote from: stew on March 13, 2016, 11:00:44 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2016, 08:16:41 AM
He's basically saying Obama got elected because all the blacks voted for him. So he doesn't really count as president. It's the same mentality that's leading the Repukelicans to block Scalia's replacement on SCOTUS. They say it's a matter of etiquette and some BS "rule" that's not actually enforceable, but it's really because they don't want some uppity black dude telling them what to do.


That last line dc  is nothing but ignorant tripe, stay off the pipe before posting and remember, Trump is a new liberal so he is one of your own,

The democrats have done exactly the same thing as the republicans are doing right now pertaining to the supreme court, don't be a hypocrite comrade, the last thing America needs is a liberal supreme court!

Unless of course you are one of the many people who don't vote Republican.

But hey, none of them matter, the libtards.
dc

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said they did not matter, of course they matter, its simply this, the republicans are not going to allow a liberal judge onto the supreme court under this idiot of a liberal president, there is precedent and it is strictly a political move, now if the shoe wad on the other foot you would nit be flapping your gums on this issue, the republicans are hoping, in vain that.they can carry the white house so that they can get a conservative judge in their and hold the majority, what the hell is wrong with that?

What's wrong is they're not doing their job. There is nothing in the constitution that says a president can't appoint judges in the last year of his tenure. But they've been blocking his judges at lower levels for years anyway, with federal court vacancies all over the place and nominees hanging in limbo at a rate far beyond anything ever seen before. These people don't even get a vote.

What precedent are you talking about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 12:03:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:17:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:10:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:05:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
If Trump is hiring a hall for a rally and admitting who he wants, he has every right to restrict speech. Its a private event.

The issue is the violent rhetoric and action against protestors.
So did the protesters last night go there to give trump supporters what they are looking for ?

I've no idea. But college campus, Friday night, probably plenty of booze... I'm sure you can see how things could escalate.

No. The police should have arrested them all for public disorder if that was the case. But you know you're telling lies.

Who the f**k are you to say I know I'm telling lies?


Because you actually know your statement was a lie. It was organised, not a spontaneous gathering of boozed up individuals.
Most of them probably can't spell the word "school" judging by the pictures.

I've looked again, and I don't see the word "spontaneous" ANYWHERE in my post.

Drinks, tempers, shouting (on both sides) escalating into pushing and shoving and strikes are not in anyway at odds with organizing protesters to go along to this event.

So once again, f**k you and your bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 13, 2016, 12:39:11 PM
Speaking of anti immigration rallies

http://youtu.be/pyHMLt7oXo8 (http://youtu.be/pyHMLt7oXo8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 12:48:44 PM
Who said this about Trump?

"This boiling point that we have now reached has been fed largely by the fact that we have a front-runner... who has fed into language that basically justifies physically assaulting people who disagree with you,"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2016, 02:00:35 PM
apparently a lot of GOP senate seats are gerrymandered. How was that allowed ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2016, 02:00:35 PM
apparently a lot of GOP senate seats are gerrymandered. How was that allowed ?

States draw up the congressional districts. They're redrawn after censuses. The latest, in 2010, coincided with the Tea Party wave, so the GOP was in control all over the place and were allowed to gerrymander to suit themselves. Both parties do it, but its been taken to ridiculous levels in recent years with narrow snake-like districts drawn up across massive distances to stuff minority communities into the one district.  In Texas, a liberal town like Austin has been drawn up to have conservative representation. Its like Derry back in the day.

There are moves afoot in some states to put districting into independent hands, taking the politics out of it. Hopefully it will succeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 06:59:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 12:03:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:17:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:10:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:05:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
If Trump is hiring a hall for a rally and admitting who he wants, he has every right to restrict speech. Its a private event.

The issue is the violent rhetoric and action against protestors.
So did the protesters last night go there to give trump supporters what they are looking for ?

I've no idea. But college campus, Friday night, probably plenty of booze... I'm sure you can see how things could escalate.

No. The police should have arrested them all for public disorder if that was the case. But you know you're telling lies.

Who the f**k are you to say I know I'm telling lies?


Because you actually know your statement was a lie. It was organised, not a spontaneous gathering of boozed up individuals.
Most of them probably can't spell the word "school" judging by the pictures.

I've looked again, and I don't see the word "spontaneous" ANYWHERE in my post.

Drinks, tempers, shouting (on both sides) escalating into pushing and shoving and strikes are not in anyway at odds with organizing protesters to go along to this event.

So once again, f**k you and your bullshit.

You mentioned that a group were just drinking away on campus and all of a sudden this escalated into a protest.
Are you now changing your mind and saying it was a planned attack of Trump's rally?

Cant even keep your story straight ffs - and that is the definition of a liar.

Why are anti-trump protesters there if not to cause trouble? There is no other reason. Now they try get on stage and disrupt too.
Would you have accepted this when the Kenyan was running for president?

Funny how the "liberal" aren't very liberal at all if they aren't getting their way, worse than spoiled children.
Looting and rioting is a by product of this but gets excused because they have rights to be angry (like Baltimore) and take it out on the police. It's always their fault for trying to stop you dealing.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2016, 09:06:10 PM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-0/s261x260/12804902_10208984964447552_1343491431449516304_n.jpg?oh=a247f24a0d9be676b9d87d8f3712f0b6&oe=574EC742)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2016, 11:11:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 06:59:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 12:03:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:17:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 02:10:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 02:05:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
If Trump is hiring a hall for a rally and admitting who he wants, he has every right to restrict speech. Its a private event.

The issue is the violent rhetoric and action against protestors.
So did the protesters last night go there to give trump supporters what they are looking for ?

I've no idea. But college campus, Friday night, probably plenty of booze... I'm sure you can see how things could escalate.

No. The police should have arrested them all for public disorder if that was the case. But you know you're telling lies.

Who the f**k are you to say I know I'm telling lies?


Because you actually know your statement was a lie. It was organised, not a spontaneous gathering of boozed up individuals.
Most of them probably can't spell the word "school" judging by the pictures.

I've looked again, and I don't see the word "spontaneous" ANYWHERE in my post.

Drinks, tempers, shouting (on both sides) escalating into pushing and shoving and strikes are not in anyway at odds with organizing protesters to go along to this event.

So once again, f**k you and your bullshit.

You mentioned that a group were just drinking away on campus and all of a sudden this escalated into a protest.
Are you now changing your mind and saying it was a planned attack of Trump's rally?

Cant even keep your story straight ffs - and that is the definition of a liar.

No I did not mention a group just drinking away on campus. Why don't you stop trying to put words in people's mouths and address what they actually say, for once? You seem to come on here in a seething rage looking for trigger words to set off your anti-liberal rants, without bothering to comprehend the actual comments you're responding to.

I said, in response to Gmac, that I'd no idea if the protestors went there looking for trouble, but that a college campus on a Friday night, with a few drinks taken, it wouldn't take much for things to escalate.

I made no comment whatsoever on the spontaneity or organization before that last post. I would absolutely imagine that some kind of protest would have been organized. If I was a student there myself I would definitely take the opportunity to make my feelings known.

Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 06:59:04 PM
Why are anti-trump protesters there if not to cause trouble? There is no other reason. Now they try get on stage and disrupt too.
Would you have accepted this when the Kenyan was running for president?

Protest... absolutely. Getting on stage or fighting, absolutely not. That's what security and police is for. And that goes for liberal protestors as well as Trump supporters assaulting people.

Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2016, 06:59:04 PM
Funny how the "liberal" aren't very liberal at all if they aren't getting their way, worse than spoiled children.
Looting and rioting is a by product of this but gets excused because they have rights to be angry (like Baltimore) and take it out on the police. It's always their fault for trying to stop you dealing.

Please point out where I have excused rioting and looting.

And from now one I'll be expecting your righteous indignation when a thug supporting Trump punches out some protestor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 02:52:43 AM
You're wasting your time, J. You can't reason with clowns like Foxy boy. They spend all day eating snacks and watching Fox News to feed their need to be outraged about something. The only way to deal with banjo-playing nincompoops like him is to point and laugh at them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 09:39:10 AM
Racists?? What racists??

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ronnie-c-rouse/what-i-know-about-america-trump-rally_b_9437998.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 14, 2016, 09:48:20 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2016, 02:00:35 PM
apparently a lot of GOP senate seats are gerrymandered. How was that allowed ?

Just the same way as strap on gets superdelegates, it's a old boys network thing, oh and money, must not forget the kesh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 14, 2016, 09:50:11 AM
To see Irish people, particularly those from the North, displaying kneejerk support for the excesses of the police, and smearing a particular group of people into the bargain, is dispiriting. Wolfe Tone is spinning in his grave.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 14, 2016, 09:57:42 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 02:52:43 AM
You're wasting your time, J. You can't reason with clowns like Foxy boy. They spend all day eating snacks and watching Fox News to feed their need to be outraged about something. The only way to deal with banjo-playing nincompoops like him is to point and laugh at them.

Nah, he is too busy earning money to be eating snacks because he has to provide tax money for the likes of you, you know the unemployed liberal who lives off his tax dollars and whose sweat buys you your food stamps and Crystal meth, now we can all generalize you msnbc watching weasel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)

Powell, now there is a lad who is a disgrace to the Republican oarty, a lifelong Republican suddenly, at the mere sight of a black men running for president decides that his best mate John McCain is not the man to earn his vote, it is the liberal from Illinois who gets his vote......That was a race move and he sold his principles because of the colour of Obama's skin, ergo he is as big a hypocrite as there is, I had a lot of respect for him at one point, now I have none and his opinion means Jack shit to me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:15:30 AM
Quote from: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)

Powell, now there is a lad who is a disgrace to the Republican oarty, a lifelong Republican suddenly, at the mere sight of a black men running for president decides that his best mate John McCain is not the man to earn his vote, it is the liberal from Illinois who gets his vote......That was a race move and he sold his principles because of the colour of Obama's skin, ergo he is as big a hypocrite as there is, I had a lot of respect for him at one point, now I have none and his opinion means Jack shit to me.

You can see it in his face. . .  he's devastated!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 14, 2016, 10:28:32 AM
Quote from: deiseach on March 14, 2016, 09:50:11 AM
To see Irish people, particularly those from the North, displaying kneejerk support for the excesses of the police, and smearing a particular group of people into the bargain, is dispiriting. Wolfe Tone is spinning in his grave.

Agreed 100%.

Anti-immigrant immigrants. Seriously?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 14, 2016, 10:28:43 AM
I thought the Shinners kept all their right wing extremists, like Mr Foxy, hidden away?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2016, 10:29:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 02:52:43 AM
You're wasting your time, J. You can't reason with clowns like Foxy boy. They spend all day eating snacks and watching Fox News to feed their need to be outraged about something. The only way to deal with banjo-playing nincompoops like him is to point and laugh at them.
cheetos
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:44:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:15:30 AM
Quote from: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)

Powell, now there is a lad who is a disgrace to the Republican oarty, a lifelong Republican suddenly, at the mere sight of a black men running for president decides that his best mate John McCain is not the man to earn his vote, it is the liberal from Illinois who gets his vote......That was a race move and he sold his principles because of the colour of Obama's skin, ergo he is as big a hypocrite as there is, I had a lot of respect for him at one point, now I have none and his opinion means Jack shit to me.

You can see it in his face. . .  he's devastated!!!!

Fack away aff, I notice you had nothing of substance to say about what I had to say about Powell, ach sure what can you expect from a clown but a sad joke.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2016, 11:14:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xd3kr-QpeM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnzxJ2TZnBE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 14, 2016, 11:43:58 AM
A couple of Breitbart people have left the outfit over their disgraceful bending over for Trump in the aftermath of his campaign manager flinging their female reporter to the floor.

I do not like Ben Shapiro's politics or work or style, but I have to admire the little bollocks for standing up for his colleague and resigning in protest.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/14/breitbart-reporter-editor-resign-over-response-to-alleged-assault-by-trump-campaign-manager.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/14/breitbart-reporter-editor-resign-over-response-to-alleged-assault-by-trump-campaign-manager.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 14, 2016, 03:50:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 02:52:43 AM
You're wasting your time, J. You can't reason with clowns like Foxy boy. They spend all day eating snacks and watching Fox News to feed their need to be outraged about something. The only way to deal with banjo-playing nincompoops like him is to point and laugh at them.

The libtards are choking on their couscous and waffles at the thought of throwing illegal immigrants out of the USA.
They won't be happy until society is brought down to the dregs level and crack is available on every street corner.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 14, 2016, 03:54:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 14, 2016, 10:28:32 AM

Anti-immigrant immigrants. Seriously?

You missed the word "illegal". Quite important that bit.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 14, 2016, 03:56:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2016, 10:29:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 02:52:43 AM
You're wasting your time, J. You can't reason with clowns like Foxy boy. They spend all day eating snacks and watching Fox News to feed their need to be outraged about something. The only way to deal with banjo-playing nincompoops like him is to point and laugh at them.
cheetos

Pringles actually.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 14, 2016, 04:03:29 PM
http://dailycurrant.com/2014/12/12/native-american-council-offers-amnesty-to-220-million-undocumented-whites/ (http://dailycurrant.com/2014/12/12/native-american-council-offers-amnesty-to-220-million-undocumented-whites/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ludermor on March 14, 2016, 04:20:26 PM
Is it now acceptable to insult people by calling them retards?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: ludermor on March 14, 2016, 04:20:26 PM
Is it now acceptable to insult people by calling them retards?

Of course it is... PC is dead we are in the era of Trump where you just say what you think!!!

If you don't agree with it then f**k you!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 04:48:51 PM
Quote from: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:44:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:15:30 AM
Quote from: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)

Powell, now there is a lad who is a disgrace to the Republican oarty, a lifelong Republican suddenly, at the mere sight of a black men running for president decides that his best mate John McCain is not the man to earn his vote, it is the liberal from Illinois who gets his vote......That was a race move and he sold his principles because of the colour of Obama's skin, ergo he is as big a hypocrite as there is, I had a lot of respect for him at one point, now I have none and his opinion means Jack shit to me.

You can see it in his face. . .  he's devastated!!!!

Fack away aff, I notice you had nothing of substance to say about what I had to say about Powell, ach sure what can you expect from a clown but a sad joke.

What's the point in saying something substantive on the issue??

Powell has said that as his years have gone on he has become disillusioned with the Party he joined but still believes in their basic principles. . . but then to you Powell's probably just a "libtard liar' he's black and Obama's black seems to be your take on it and I can't imagine your opinion will be swayed by what I say if it hasn't been by what Powell himself has said!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 14, 2016, 05:26:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: ludermor on March 14, 2016, 04:20:26 PM
Is it now acceptable to insult people by calling them retards?

Of course it is... PC is dead we are in the era of Trump where you just say what you think!!!

If you don't agree with it then f**k you!

I don't think thinking comes into it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 14, 2016, 05:30:48 PM
Has Trump said he'd build a wall to help out with this problem ??
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/15/science/rising-sea-levels-global-warming-climate-change.html?smid=tw-nytimesscience&smtyp=cur&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/15/science/rising-sea-levels-global-warming-climate-change.html?smid=tw-nytimesscience&smtyp=cur&_r=0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 14, 2016, 05:41:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)

Powell, now there is a lad who is a disgrace to the Republican oarty, a lifelong Republican suddenly, at the mere sight of a black men running for president decides that his best mate John McCain is not the man to earn his vote, it is the liberal from Illinois who gets his vote......That was a race move and he sold his principles because of the colour of Obama's skin, ergo he is as big a hypocrite as there is, I had a lot of respect for him at one point, now I have none and his opinion means Jack shit to me.

Would Powell have supported Hilary if she had the Democratic nomination in 2008?

He sold a party colleague down the river as he saw a chance to "change" politics - if he thought the democrats were more aligned with his own beliefs then surely he should have converted. But he didn't.

A very thin mask slipped when he backed the Kenyan lad who's biggest achievement was being a "community organizer".
No problem for Colin sticking the boot in to a decorated war hero. There's loyalty for you.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 14, 2016, 05:47:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 14, 2016, 05:41:34 PM
A very thin mask slipped when he backed the Kenyan lad who's biggest achievement was being a "community organizer".

You somehow missed the fact that he got elected to the Senate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 14, 2016, 06:42:28 PM
Interesting to hear a real conservative view of the latest goings on with the Trump campaign on the radio tonight.
http://www.todayfm.com/player/podcasts/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/51057/0/mad_as_hell_or_just_mad_donald_trumps_nasty_campaign (http://www.todayfm.com/player/podcasts/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/51057/0/mad_as_hell_or_just_mad_donald_trumps_nasty_campaign)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2016, 12:21:29 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 14, 2016, 05:41:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)

Powell, now there is a lad who is a disgrace to the Republican oarty, a lifelong Republican suddenly, at the mere sight of a black men running for president decides that his best mate John McCain is not the man to earn his vote, it is the liberal from Illinois who gets his vote......That was a race move and he sold his principles because of the colour of Obama's skin, ergo he is as big a hypocrite as there is, I had a lot of respect for him at one point, now I have none and his opinion means Jack shit to me.

Would Powell have supported Hilary if she had the Democratic nomination in 2008?

He sold a party colleague down the river as he saw a chance to "change" politics - if he thought the democrats were more aligned with his own beliefs then surely he should have converted. But he didn't.

A very thin mask slipped when he backed the Kenyan lad who's biggest achievement was being a "community organizer".
No problem for Colin sticking the boot in to a decorated war hero. There's loyalty for you.

The same party who hung him out to dry at the UN and completely sidelined him in his role as Secretary of State in favour of the neoconservative Cheney/Rumsfeld axis (which worked out soooo well!)?

The same party who at the time of his endorsement of Obama had their candidate and running mate accusing Obama of "palling around with terrorists" and were plumbing the depths in bigoted, dog whistle appeals to "real" Americans even as an unprecedented financial crisis unfolded, about which McCain portrayed himself as completely unequipped to handle?

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about black people, never missing an opportunity to downplay prejudice they experience or accuse them themselves of racist attitudes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4

Like I said before, there is no reason for anti-trump protestors to attend his rallies. These anti-trump bullies are the ones inflaming the situation and should let democracy take its course even if they don't like his message.

If there was no popular support for Mr Trumps policies he wouldn't be winning all these states. Just shows the american public are sick of pandering to the PC brigade and are willing to be more vocal about it now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2016, 02:55:44 AM
I stopped reading at "PC brigade."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2016, 03:19:28 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4

Like I said before, there is no reason for anti-trump protestors to attend his rallies. These anti-trump bullies are the ones inflaming the situation and should let democracy take its course even if they don't like his message.

If there was no popular support for Mr Trumps policies he wouldn't be winning all these states. Just shows the american public are sick of pandering to the PC brigade and are willing to be more vocal about it now.

Trump has no policies.

Just vague promises about bombing ISIS, building a wall, "beating" China, and bringing back jobs. "It's going to be GREAT" don't you know!

I understand the former factory worker being bitter about his job being shipped overseas, but no amount of bullshit or threatened trade wars from Trump or anyone else is bringing manufacturing jobs back.

As for protestors, if he is that concerned, let the security sort out interruptions in the hall. Or control entry. Condoning and indulging violence is NOT the appropriate response. Besides, even if it might play well with his support, it's only going to hurt him in the long run.

And 40% of the GOP base is NOT the American public. It's a small segment of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 15, 2016, 05:03:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2016, 12:21:29 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 14, 2016, 05:41:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)

Powell, now there is a lad who is a disgrace to the Republican oarty, a lifelong Republican suddenly, at the mere sight of a black men running for president decides that his best mate John McCain is not the man to earn his vote, it is the liberal from Illinois who gets his vote......That was a race move and he sold his principles because of the colour of Obama's skin, ergo he is as big a hypocrite as there is, I had a lot of respect for him at one point, now I have none and his opinion means Jack shit to me.

Would Powell have supported Hilary if she had the Democratic nomination in 2008?

He sold a party colleague down the river as he saw a chance to "change" politics - if he thought the democrats were more aligned with his own beliefs then surely he should have converted. But he didn't.

A very thin mask slipped when he backed the Kenyan lad who's biggest achievement was being a "community organizer".
No problem for Colin sticking the boot in to a decorated war hero. There's loyalty for you.

The same party who hung him out to dry at the UN and completely sidelined him in his role as Secretary of State in favour of the neoconservative Cheney/Rumsfeld axis (which worked out soooo well!)?

The same party who at the time of his endorsement of Obama had their candidate and running mate accusing Obama of "palling around with terrorists" and were plumbing the depths in bigoted, dog whistle appeals to "real" Americans even as an unprecedented financial crisis unfolded, about which McCain portrayed himself as completely unequipped to handle?

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about black people, never missing an opportunity to downplay prejudice they experience or accuse them themselves of racist attitudes.

Yawn, do you liberal arsewipes ever get tired of accusing people of racism? all I did was speak the truth about Powell and bang, you play the race card, I have no problem with people of color, i do have an issue with liberals that think the rules don't apply to them, I have a problem with looters and I give not one shire what color the looters are.

Lets see, Powell was a lifelong republican right up until Obama ran and then proof, he betrays his principles, his friends and votes, for the first time mind you, for Obama, a man who is everything he stood against his entire political career, does that not strike you as odd?

Unlike mealy mouthed gits like yourself i am not afraid to voice my opinion, it is ok you know to call people out when they are wrong, you just justify bad behavior because hey, the disruptors/ looters are liberals like yourself.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 15, 2016, 05:16:02 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4

Are you for real?????? That is a liberal snotrag ffs, forgive us for not believing a word that is written in that rag!

By the way, nice job of the liberal media downplaying the looting, what a shower of hacks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2016, 06:30:54 AM
For the benefit of anyone joining the conversation, "PC brigade" is a generic term used by conservatives to dismiss anyone who's not a racist, fascist, banjo-playing, right wing extremist yearning for the good old days of segregation and slavery.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2016, 06:31:30 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/15hvC2M.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 15, 2016, 07:48:36 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2016, 06:30:54 AM
For the benefit of anyone joining the conversation, "PC brigade" is a generic term used by conservatives to dismiss anyone who's not a racist, fascist, banjo-playing, right wing extremist yearning for the good old days of segregation and slavery.

The democrat party was the party of slavery was it not?

You are trolling with that crap but you are also dumb enough to believe that drivel you wrote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 15, 2016, 08:33:40 AM
Interesting contrast in how to deal with hecklers at you rally
http://youtu.be/66R5UhnDlj8 (http://youtu.be/66R5UhnDlj8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 15, 2016, 08:40:44 AM
'Mr Trump'. It's the same thing as . . .

(http://assets.hulu.com/shows/key_art_they_call_me_mr_tibbs.jpg)

. . . except nothing like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 09:02:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2016, 03:19:28 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4

Like I said before, there is no reason for anti-trump protestors to attend his rallies. These anti-trump bullies are the ones inflaming the situation and should let democracy take its course even if they don't like his message.

If there was no popular support for Mr Trumps policies he wouldn't be winning all these states. Just shows the american public are sick of pandering to the PC brigade and are willing to be more vocal about it now.

Trump has no policies.

Just vague promises about bombing ISIS, building a wall, "beating" China, and bringing back jobs. "It's going to be GREAT" don't you know!

I understand the former factory worker being bitter about his job being shipped overseas, but no amount of bullshit or threatened trade wars from Trump or anyone else is bringing manufacturing jobs back.

As for protestors, if he is that concerned, let the security sort out interruptions in the hall. Or control entry. Condoning and indulging violence is NOT the appropriate response. Besides, even if it might play well with his support, it's only going to hurt him in the long run.

And 40% of the GOP base is NOT the American public. It's a small segment of it.
Trump's policy platform is very poor. Building a wall won't put food on the table or bring pay rises to mostly uneducated white southerners. We are gonna get the best people you have never heard off. It's not a pitch to analysts, Donald.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 15, 2016, 09:05:56 AM
Hers a post from a friend of mine who lives in the Boston area which gives a flavour of the atmosphere - She voted for Kasich in the Republican primary. Where will it end I wonder??

I'm sick to my stomach over the hate that has so quickly risen to the surface in the Middle schools and High schools, our own included. I can't help but think this atmosphere of "telling it like it is" and normalizing of hate that is trickling down - no, roaring down like a waterfall - from Trump, Christie, Cruz, Rubio, Palin, and more. The antisemitism that was displayed by Catholic Memorial students at the Newton North basketball game is not an anomoly. Last week, antisemitic "jokes" on the school bus turned into outright claims that Jews are "scum" and "deserve to be made fun of." This week, it comes to light that other kids have been making antisemitic "jokes" and comments for weeks. At the high school, a Muslim student is in tears repeatedly at school due to the hateful things students and faculty alike say about Muslims. It's terrifying how quickly this type of behavior has become so common. And from children whose parents, at least in some cases, I KNOW would be utterly horrified and confounded as to how their children came to even know these hateful things. It's a poison like the water in Flint that is contaminating our children.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4

Like I said before, there is no reason for anti-trump protestors to attend his rallies. These anti-trump bullies are the ones inflaming the situation and should let democracy take its course even if they don't like his message.

If there was no popular support for Mr Trumps policies he wouldn't be winning all these states. Just shows the american public are sick of pandering to the PC brigade and are willing to be more vocal about it now.

Have you read the US Constitution?? First amendment means that liberals can protest Trump all they want!! Are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights just because they are liberal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 09:45:47 AM
Quote from: stew on March 15, 2016, 05:03:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2016, 12:21:29 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 14, 2016, 05:41:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)

Powell, now there is a lad who is a disgrace to the Republican oarty, a lifelong Republican suddenly, at the mere sight of a black men running for president decides that his best mate John McCain is not the man to earn his vote, it is the liberal from Illinois who gets his vote......That was a race move and he sold his principles because of the colour of Obama's skin, ergo he is as big a hypocrite as there is, I had a lot of respect for him at one point, now I have none and his opinion means Jack shit to me.

Would Powell have supported Hilary if she had the Democratic nomination in 2008?

He sold a party colleague down the river as he saw a chance to "change" politics - if he thought the democrats were more aligned with his own beliefs then surely he should have converted. But he didn't.

A very thin mask slipped when he backed the Kenyan lad who's biggest achievement was being a "community organizer".
No problem for Colin sticking the boot in to a decorated war hero. There's loyalty for you.

The same party who hung him out to dry at the UN and completely sidelined him in his role as Secretary of State in favour of the neoconservative Cheney/Rumsfeld axis (which worked out soooo well!)?

The same party who at the time of his endorsement of Obama had their candidate and running mate accusing Obama of "palling around with terrorists" and were plumbing the depths in bigoted, dog whistle appeals to "real" Americans even as an unprecedented financial crisis unfolded, about which McCain portrayed himself as completely unequipped to handle?

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about black people, never missing an opportunity to downplay prejudice they experience or accuse them themselves of racist attitudes.

Yawn, do you liberal arsewipes ever get tired of accusing people of racism? all I did was speak the truth about Powell and bang, you play the race card, I have no problem with people of color, i do have an issue with liberals that think the rules don't apply to them, I have a problem with looters and I give not one shire what color the looters are.

Lets see, Powell was a lifelong republican right up until Obama ran and then proof, he betrays his principles, his friends and votes, for the first time mind you, for Obama, a man who is everything he stood against his entire political career, does that not strike you as odd?

Unlike mealy mouthed gits like yourself i am not afraid to voice my opinion, it is ok you know to call people out when they are wrong, you just justify bad behavior because hey, the disruptors/ looters are liberals like yourself.

Where are these reports of looting at then??!! I can't even find anything on fascist Fox News. . .

Maybe they're in the same place as Trump's video of thousands of Muslims celebrating 9/11 i.e. non existent!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 10:18:30 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 09:05:56 AM
Hers a post from a friend of mine who lives in the Boston area which gives a flavour of the atmosphere - She voted for Kasich in the Republican primary. Where will it end I wonder??

I'm sick to my stomach over the hate that has so quickly risen to the surface in the Middle schools and High schools, our own included. I can't help but think this atmosphere of "telling it like it is" and normalizing of hate that is trickling down - no, roaring down like a waterfall - from Trump, Christie, Cruz, Rubio, Palin, and more. The antisemitism that was displayed by Catholic Memorial students at the Newton North basketball game is not an anomoly. Last week, antisemitic "jokes" on the school bus turned into outright claims that Jews are "scum" and "deserve to be made fun of." This week, it comes to light that other kids have been making antisemitic "jokes" and comments for weeks. At the high school, a Muslim student is in tears repeatedly at school due to the hateful things students and faculty alike say about Muslims. It's terrifying how quickly this type of behavior has become so common. And from children whose parents, at least in some cases, I KNOW would be utterly horrified and confounded as to how their children came to even know these hateful things. It's a poison like the water in Flint that is contaminating our children.
It is like the 1930s . Economic depression, income inequality, weak mainstream politicians, no growth, hate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 15, 2016, 01:12:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 10:18:30 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 09:05:56 AM
Hers a post from a friend of mine who lives in the Boston area which gives a flavour of the atmosphere - She voted for Kasich in the Republican primary. Where will it end I wonder??

I'm sick to my stomach over the hate that has so quickly risen to the surface in the Middle schools and High schools, our own included. I can't help but think this atmosphere of "telling it like it is" and normalizing of hate that is trickling down - no, roaring down like a waterfall - from Trump, Christie, Cruz, Rubio, Palin, and more. The antisemitism that was displayed by Catholic Memorial students at the Newton North basketball game is not an anomoly. Last week, antisemitic "jokes" on the school bus turned into outright claims that Jews are "scum" and "deserve to be made fun of." This week, it comes to light that other kids have been making antisemitic "jokes" and comments for weeks. At the high school, a Muslim student is in tears repeatedly at school due to the hateful things students and faculty alike say about Muslims. It's terrifying how quickly this type of behavior has become so common. And from children whose parents, at least in some cases, I KNOW would be utterly horrified and confounded as to how their children came to even know these hateful things. It's a poison like the water in Flint that is contaminating our children.
It is like the 1930s . Economic depression, income inequality, weak mainstream politicians, no growth, hate

You can add the LionsofTrump.net (http://lionsoftrump.net) to that for good measure.
"An informal civilian group" with a nice badge to presumably sew onto their matching brown shirts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 01:33:02 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 15, 2016, 01:12:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 10:18:30 AM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 09:05:56 AM
Hers a post from a friend of mine who lives in the Boston area which gives a flavour of the atmosphere - She voted for Kasich in the Republican primary. Where will it end I wonder??

I'm sick to my stomach over the hate that has so quickly risen to the surface in the Middle schools and High schools, our own included. I can't help but think this atmosphere of "telling it like it is" and normalizing of hate that is trickling down - no, roaring down like a waterfall - from Trump, Christie, Cruz, Rubio, Palin, and more. The antisemitism that was displayed by Catholic Memorial students at the Newton North basketball game is not an anomoly. Last week, antisemitic "jokes" on the school bus turned into outright claims that Jews are "scum" and "deserve to be made fun of." This week, it comes to light that other kids have been making antisemitic "jokes" and comments for weeks. At the high school, a Muslim student is in tears repeatedly at school due to the hateful things students and faculty alike say about Muslims. It's terrifying how quickly this type of behavior has become so common. And from children whose parents, at least in some cases, I KNOW would be utterly horrified and confounded as to how their children came to even know these hateful things. It's a poison like the water in Flint that is contaminating our children.
It is like the 1930s . Economic depression, income inequality, weak mainstream politicians, no growth, hate

You can add the LionsofTrump.net (http://lionsoftrump.net) to that for good measure.
"An informal civilian group" with a nice badge to presumably sew onto their matching brown shirts.
http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.ch/2014/05/fascism-i-sometimes-fear.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 02:57:52 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 09:05:56 AM
Hers a post from a friend of mine who lives in the Boston area which gives a flavour of the atmosphere - She voted for Kasich in the Republican primary. Where will it end I wonder??

I'm sick to my stomach over the hate that has so quickly risen to the surface in the Middle schools and High schools, our own included. I can't help but think this atmosphere of "telling it like it is" and normalizing of hate that is trickling down - no, roaring down like a waterfall - from Trump, Christie, Cruz, Rubio, Palin, and more. The antisemitism that was displayed by Catholic Memorial students at the Newton North basketball game is not an anomoly. Last week, antisemitic "jokes" on the school bus turned into outright claims that Jews are "scum" and "deserve to be made fun of." This week, it comes to light that other kids have been making antisemitic "jokes" and comments for weeks. At the high school, a Muslim student is in tears repeatedly at school due to the hateful things students and faculty alike say about Muslims. It's terrifying how quickly this type of behavior has become so common. And from children whose parents, at least in some cases, I KNOW would be utterly horrified and confounded as to how their children came to even know these hateful things. It's a poison like the water in Flint that is contaminating our children.

Catholic Students were responding to taunts of "Sausage Fest" and a few weeks earlier the same Newton North supporters were heard chanting "build a wall" to students from an Hispanic neighborhood. I'm sick to fvckin death of this perennial victimhood and safe space bull$hit. When you poke a dog with a stick and get bitten don't go off crying to mommy. When I went to school differences were settled the old fashioned way and no one was any worse for it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on March 15, 2016, 03:11:14 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 14, 2015, 10:30:18 AM
Just skimming through this thread.

Fox and Stew are complete lunatics.

Sin e.

And getting worse lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on March 15, 2016, 03:14:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 02:57:52 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 09:05:56 AM
Hers a post from a friend of mine who lives in the Boston area which gives a flavour of the atmosphere - She voted for Kasich in the Republican primary. Where will it end I wonder??

I'm sick to my stomach over the hate that has so quickly risen to the surface in the Middle schools and High schools, our own included. I can't help but think this atmosphere of "telling it like it is" and normalizing of hate that is trickling down - no, roaring down like a waterfall - from Trump, Christie, Cruz, Rubio, Palin, and more. The antisemitism that was displayed by Catholic Memorial students at the Newton North basketball game is not an anomoly. Last week, antisemitic "jokes" on the school bus turned into outright claims that Jews are "scum" and "deserve to be made fun of." This week, it comes to light that other kids have been making antisemitic "jokes" and comments for weeks. At the high school, a Muslim student is in tears repeatedly at school due to the hateful things students and faculty alike say about Muslims. It's terrifying how quickly this type of behavior has become so common. And from children whose parents, at least in some cases, I KNOW would be utterly horrified and confounded as to how their children came to even know these hateful things. It's a poison like the water in Flint that is contaminating our children.

Catholic Students were responding to taunts of "Sausage Fest" and a few weeks earlier the same Newton North supporters were heard chanting "build a wall" to students from an Hispanic neighborhood. I'm sick to fvckin death of this perennial victimhood and safe space bull$hit. When you poke a dog with a stick and get bitten don't go off crying to mommy. When I went to school differences were settled the old fashioned way and no one was any worse for it
very few students who attend "catholic" schools even go to Mass. The majority of Catholic Schools would recognize that over 50% of their students come from non-catholic homes. In fact  locally an all girls catholic school has banned anyone from blessing themselves as it is an insult (confrontational) to Muslim students.....
I wouldn't label religion in any of these reports. It's people. Bad people, ignorant people fueled by ignorant cultures
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 15, 2016, 03:22:36 PM
QuoteI'm sick to fvckin death of this perennial victimhood and safe space bull$hit. When you poke a dog with a stick and get bitten don't go off crying to mommy. When I went to school differences were settled the old fashioned way and no one was any worse for it

What my friend was saying was that these examples of racism, homophobia name calling etc  are given validation by the poisonous public utterances of supposed presidential candidates. Of course physical violence as a method of conflict resolution has always worked well hasn't it.

Differences being settled is a euphemism for beating the crap out of somebody as per Trump and his ilk.

No wonder they don't believe in evolution as they are still living in the past
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 03:22:57 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 15, 2016, 03:14:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 02:57:52 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 09:05:56 AM
Hers a post from a friend of mine who lives in the Boston area which gives a flavour of the atmosphere - She voted for Kasich in the Republican primary. Where will it end I wonder??

I'm sick to my stomach over the hate that has so quickly risen to the surface in the Middle schools and High schools, our own included. I can't help but think this atmosphere of "telling it like it is" and normalizing of hate that is trickling down - no, roaring down like a waterfall - from Trump, Christie, Cruz, Rubio, Palin, and more. The antisemitism that was displayed by Catholic Memorial students at the Newton North basketball game is not an anomoly. Last week, antisemitic "jokes" on the school bus turned into outright claims that Jews are "scum" and "deserve to be made fun of." This week, it comes to light that other kids have been making antisemitic "jokes" and comments for weeks. At the high school, a Muslim student is in tears repeatedly at school due to the hateful things students and faculty alike say about Muslims. It's terrifying how quickly this type of behavior has become so common. And from children whose parents, at least in some cases, I KNOW would be utterly horrified and confounded as to how their children came to even know these hateful things. It's a poison like the water in Flint that is contaminating our children.

Catholic Students were responding to taunts of "Sausage Fest" and a few weeks earlier the same Newton North supporters were heard chanting "build a wall" to students from an Hispanic neighborhood. I'm sick to fvckin death of this perennial victimhood and safe space bull$hit. When you poke a dog with a stick and get bitten don't go off crying to mommy. When I went to school differences were settled the old fashioned way and no one was any worse for it
very few students who attend "catholic" schools even go to Mass. The majority of Catholic Schools would recognize that over 50% of their students come from non-catholic homes. In fact  locally an all girls catholic school has banned anyone from blessing themselves as it is an insult (confrontational) to Muslim students.....
I wouldn't label religion in any of these reports. It's people. Bad people, ignorant people fueled by ignorant cultures

The US currently the most ignorant culture of all!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 03:38:53 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 03:22:36 PM
QuoteI'm sick to fvckin death of this perennial victimhood and safe space bull$hit. When you poke a dog with a stick and get bitten don't go off crying to mommy. When I went to school differences were settled the old fashioned way and no one was any worse for it

What my friend was saying was that these examples of racism, homophobia name calling etc  are given validation by the poisonous public utterances of supposed presidential candidates. Of course physical violence as a method of conflict resolution has always worked well hasn't it.

Differences being settled is a euphemism for beating the crap out of somebody as per Trump and his ilk.

No wonder they don't believe in evolution as they are still living in the past

Your friend is full of crap....my wife went to Catholic school in metro Boston in the mid 80s and they used to have to run for their lives after games against certain opponents (other Catholic Schools)....that was long before Donald Trump ever became a candidate for president.

And yes, I was exaggerating a little in my old school outlook as to how to settle scores, but the prospect of getting a belt in the gob might make some of these NN kids think twice before starting $hit at the next game. They started it, and instead of admitting any culpability they go running off to the ADL and the medi.....I would be completely embarrassed if I was in any way connected to Newton North

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 15, 2016, 03:45:09 PM
QuoteYour friend is full of crap....my wife went to Catholic school in metro Boston in the mid 80s and they used to have to run for their lives after games against certain opponents (other Catholic Schools)....that was long before Donald Trump ever became a candidate for president.

I just love reasoned debate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 15, 2016, 04:57:35 PM
1980s Boston had the likes of Whitey Bolger in his prime. Times Square was sleazy hole and many US cities were dangerous places at night.

We have moved on a long way from that, but Trump is dragging us back there. I saw the phrase 'normalisation of hatred' somewhere. That is exactly what he is doing.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 05:08:36 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 03:45:09 PM
QuoteYour friend is full of crap....my wife went to Catholic school in metro Boston in the mid 80s and they used to have to run for their lives after games against certain opponents (other Catholic Schools)....that was long before Donald Trump ever became a candidate for president.

I just love reasoned debate

Tell your friend I feel awful that his safe space has been violated and I will send him some carbon credits and a soy vegan latte to cheer him up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 15, 2016, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4

Like I said before, there is no reason for anti-trump protestors to attend his rallies. These anti-trump bullies are the ones inflaming the situation and should let democracy take its course even if they don't like his message.

If there was no popular support for Mr Trumps policies he wouldn't be winning all these states. Just shows the american public are sick of pandering to the PC brigade and are willing to be more vocal about it now.

Have you read the US Constitution?? First amendment means that liberals can protest Trump all they want!! Are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights just because they are liberal?

I am saying they had no right to be in that building because had rented the space and he had every right to get them kicked out based on that alone.

I despise the arrogant privk, but if it was Clinton instead of Trump I would say the same thing, only those on the uber left like Eamon and his ilk can argue a lost cause like this.

Some of you are dangerous because you cannot see past your liberal nose and nothing a conservative person says is of any use to you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
There is nobody for conservatives to vote for. The GOP is so extremist. Cruz was behind the 2013 shutdown. Rubio is a clown.  Trump is a proto fascist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 05:18:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 04:57:35 PM
Times Square was sleazy hole and many US cities were dangerous places at night.

We have moved on a long way from that, but Obama is dragging us back there.

Fixed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 15, 2016, 05:20:38 PM
Quote
Tell your friend I feel awful that his safe space has been violated and I will send him some carbon credits and a soy vegan latte to cheer him up

Not that I'd be calling you out on assuming their gender but from my original post She voted for Kasich in the Republican primary
and she's what was once termed a moderate republican who likes her coffee black ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 05:20:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
There is nobody for conservatives to vote for. The GOP is so extremist. Cruz was behind the 2013 shutdown. Rubio is a clown.  Trump is a proto fascist.

Everything you said was true

And Bernie is a Socialist and Hillary might be getting indicted

We're completely fvcked and I'm deadly serious
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 05:29:10 PM
Quote from: stew on March 15, 2016, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4

Like I said before, there is no reason for anti-trump protestors to attend his rallies. These anti-trump bullies are the ones inflaming the situation and should let democracy take its course even if they don't like his message.

If there was no popular support for Mr Trumps policies he wouldn't be winning all these states. Just shows the american public are sick of pandering to the PC brigade and are willing to be more vocal about it now.

Have you read the US Constitution?? First amendment means that liberals can protest Trump all they want!! Are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights just because they are liberal?

I am saying they had no right to be in that building because had rented the space and he had every right to get them kicked out based on that alone.

I despise the arrogant privk, but if it was Clinton instead of Trump I would say the same thing, only those on the uber left like Eamon and his ilk can argue a lost cause like this.

Some of you are dangerous because you cannot see past your liberal nose and nothing a conservative person says is of any use to you.

Exactly - some liberals think democracy is something only they are entitled to and try to silence anyone with a differing point of view that doesn't fit in with their self-righteous PC opinion.

Protest outside peacefully if you want to get your message across but overstepping the mark disrupting the rally inside and going up on stage could spark off all sorts of problems.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 05:30:33 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 05:20:38 PM
Quote
Tell your friend I feel awful that his safe space has been violated and I will send him some carbon credits and a soy vegan latte to cheer him up

Not that I'd be calling you out on assuming their gender but from my original post She voted for Kasich in the Republican primary
and she's what was once termed a moderate republican who likes her coffee black ;)

Phew...Ill need to keep all my money if Bernie comes in

In all seriousness is your friend originally from Boston? 

The high school rivalries here have been going on for decades and what happened last Friday is nothing compared to $hit that's gone down in the past.   

This is one of my favorites:  http://m.wickedlocal.com/article/20080711/NEWS/307119294
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2016, 02:55:44 AM
I stopped reading at "PC brigade."

Did you stop for a little cry in between your spoonfuls of lentil risotto?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 15, 2016, 05:37:39 PM
QuoteIn all seriousness is your friend originally from Boston? 

The high school rivalries here have been going on for decades and what happened last Friday is nothing compared to $hit that's gone down in the past.   

Born bred and buttered in the area so no stranger to interschool rivalries. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 15, 2016, 06:13:05 PM
Anyone who thinks that a Presidential candidate, who is winning, who is getting wall to wall coverage, and who is calling for beatings and people he dislikes to be carried out on a stretcher, won't have an impact on the young and impressionable and on the stupid and the desperate, needs to learn a bit of history.

Mosley springs to mind, for example, although he opposed the Black & Tans in Ireland so he had at least one policy worth defending, unlike Trump who would probably have built a wall around us. 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 05:37:39 PM
QuoteIn all seriousness is your friend originally from Boston? 

The high school rivalries here have been going on for decades and what happened last Friday is nothing compared to $hit that's gone down in the past.   

Born bred and buttered in the area so no stranger to interschool rivalries.

In the 80s my wife's schools supporters got chased down the street and had the windows smashed on their bus. In the 60s her dad attended BC High and got hit over the head with a chain after a basketball game by a rival supporter. Now in 2016, a group of Catholic students respond to an offensive chant from a group of Jewish kids with one of their own, and somehow it's Donald Trumps fault

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 15, 2016, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 05:37:39 PM
QuoteIn all seriousness is your friend originally from Boston? 

The high school rivalries here have been going on for decades and what happened last Friday is nothing compared to $hit that's gone down in the past.   

Born bred and buttered in the area so no stranger to interschool rivalries.

In the 80s my wife's schools supporters got chased down the street and had the windows smashed on their bus. In the 60s her dad attended BC High and got hit over the head with a chain after a basketball game by a rival supporter. Now in 2016, a group of Catholic students respond to an offensive chant from a group of Jewish kids with one of their own, and somehow it's Donald Trumps fault

The link is tenuous, but why do you think has it all started again in 2016?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 07:56:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 15, 2016, 05:37:39 PM
QuoteIn all seriousness is your friend originally from Boston? 

The high school rivalries here have been going on for decades and what happened last Friday is nothing compared to $hit that's gone down in the past.   

Born bred and buttered in the area so no stranger to interschool rivalries.

In the 80s my wife's schools supporters got chased down the street and had the windows smashed on their bus. In the 60s her dad attended BC High and got hit over the head with a chain after a basketball game by a rival supporter. Now in 2016, a group of Catholic students respond to an offensive chant from a group of Jewish kids with one of their own, and somehow it's Donald Trumps fault

The link is tenuous, but why do you think has it all started again in 2016?

Lol-It never stopped.....this is completely fabricated nonsense tying the two together

http://m.wickedlocal.com/x1374045631/Football-dad-arrested-after-bleacher-brawl

http://m.metrowestdailynews.com/article/20081112/NEWS/311129876

http://usatodayhss.com/2016/mass-school-penalizes-7-for-postgame-hockey-brawl

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/07/basketball_brawl_at_wilbraham.html

http://www.eagletribune.com/news/local_news/basketbrawl-in-melee-after-methuen-haverhill-game/article_7f4feb35-f788-52da-affe-47ffeddfa20b.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 15, 2016, 08:29:03 PM
They are all sport related.

Trump is bringing it mainstream and bringing it everywhere.

Serious question, do they allow everyone take guns into Republican political rallies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 09:02:42 PM
Looking forward to this Obama documentary!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 08:29:03 PM
They are all sport related.

Trump is bringing it mainstream and bringing it everywhere.

Serious question, do they allow everyone take guns into Republican political rallies?

Eh....the chanting which so offended Declans friend occurred at a school basketball game. 

They can bring them into any political rally as long as the state and local laws allow it and you have a vaild permit. Some individual facilities may have a blanket ban though but its questionable if that would stand up if challenged in court
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 09:16:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 09:02:42 PM
Looking forward to this Obama documentary!

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bd/ae/75/bdae75f422350b2a8a714612485a46b6.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 09:26:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 05:20:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
There is nobody for conservatives to vote for. The GOP is so extremist. Cruz was behind the 2013 shutdown. Rubio is a clown.  Trump is a proto fascist.

Everything you said was true

And Bernie is a Socialist and Hillary might be getting indicted

We're completely fvcked and I'm deadly serious
I feel sorry for middle of the road conservatives, say FG types, who have decent conservative values and nobody to vote for. The GOP is run for billionaires. Cruz or Rubio wouldn't have a hope of getting elected in the UK.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 09:34:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 09:26:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 05:20:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
There is nobody for conservatives to vote for. The GOP is so extremist. Cruz was behind the 2013 shutdown. Rubio is a clown.  Trump is a proto fascist.

Everything you said was true

And Bernie is a Socialist and Hillary might be getting indicted

We're completely fvcked and I'm deadly serious
I feel sorry for middle of the road conservatives, say FG types, who have decent conservative values and nobody to vote for. The GOP is run for billionaires. Cruz or Rubio wouldn't have a hope of getting elected in the UK.

You put Fine Gael and decent in the same sentence. Might want to amend that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 10:10:57 PM
I honestly think that when the Republican propaganda machine leaves it alone Obama will be remembered as one of the great Presidents!!

In 20\30 years time people will look back and realise what he's achieved!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 15, 2016, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 08:29:03 PM
They are all sport related.

Trump is bringing it mainstream and bringing it everywhere.

Serious question, do they allow everyone take guns into Republican political rallies?

Eh....the chanting which so offended Declans friend occurred at a school basketball game. 

They can bring them into any political rally as long as the state and local laws allow it and you have a vaild permit. Some individual facilities may have a blanket ban though but its questionable if that would stand up if challenged in court

Didn't know that.

It will be interesting to see where Trump goes with his rhetoric. If he tones it down, fine. If he cranks it up, then it could get very messy.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 15, 2016, 10:51:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 10:10:57 PM
I honestly think that when the Republican propaganda machine leaves it alone Obama will be remembered as one of the great Presidents!!

In 20\30 years time people will look back and realise what he's achieved!


:D you are some pup, the man will be remembered for being a complete disaster who wrecked the country financially and as a man who rode roughshod over the rights of the peopke, he will be remembered as the man who left the people worse off than he found them, he will be remembered as the President who saw a staggering rise in homeless citizens, I could go on but the man is a disaster as are you if you believe that stupid shot you wrote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 08:29:03 PM
They are all sport related.

Trump is bringing it mainstream and bringing it everywhere.

Serious question, do they allow everyone take guns into Republican political rallies?

Eh....the chanting which so offended Declans friend occurred at a school basketball game. 

They can bring them into any political rally as long as the state and local laws allow it and you have a vaild permit. Some individual facilities may have a blanket ban though but its questionable if that would stand up if challenged in court

Didn't know that.

It will be interesting to see where Trump goes with his rhetoric. If he tones it down, fine. If he cranks it up, then it could get very messy.

I double checked on the guns and stand corrected........once a candidate gets Secret Service protection, open or concealed carry is no longer permitted at their events
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 15, 2016, 11:10:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 08:29:03 PM
They are all sport related.

Trump is bringing it mainstream and bringing it everywhere.

Serious question, do they allow everyone take guns into Republican political rallies?

Eh....the chanting which so offended Declans friend occurred at a school basketball game. 

They can bring them into any political rally as long as the state and local laws allow it and you have a vaild permit. Some individual facilities may have a blanket ban though but its questionable if that would stand up if challenged in court

Didn't know that.

It will be interesting to see where Trump goes with his rhetoric. If he tones it down, fine. If he cranks it up, then it could get very messy.

I double checked on the guns and stand corrected........once a candidate gets Secret Service protection, open or concealed carry is no longer permitted at their events

On one level that makes sense, but on another it is very much one law for important people and another for everyone else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2016, 11:14:24 PM
Quote from: stew on March 15, 2016, 10:51:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 10:10:57 PM
I honestly think that when the Republican propaganda machine leaves it alone Obama will be remembered as one of the great Presidents!!

In 20\30 years time people will look back and realise what he's achieved!


:D you are some pup, the man will be remembered for being a complete disaster who wrecked the country financially and as a man who rode roughshod over the rights of the peopke, he will be remembered as the man who left the people worse off than he found them, he will be remembered as the President who saw a staggering rise in homeless citizens, I could go on but the man is a disaster as are you if you believe that stupid shot you wrote.

How is he to blame for the homeless situation or wrecking the country financially when he took office at the peak of the worst financial disaster, which actually occurred due to the subprime mortgage mess, for 80 years?

What did he not do that he should have or could have?

What rights did he ride roughshod over?

And seriously, compared to January 2009, what proportion of people are worse off?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2016, 11:23:49 PM
Quote from: stew on March 15, 2016, 05:03:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2016, 12:21:29 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 14, 2016, 05:41:34 PM
Quote from: stew on March 14, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2016, 05:03:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12814619_1067963456588643_5458267296254852187_n.jpg?oh=9646e940057ae4f25d882344385f0a1d&oe=57528B9F)

Powell, now there is a lad who is a disgrace to the Republican oarty, a lifelong Republican suddenly, at the mere sight of a black men running for president decides that his best mate John McCain is not the man to earn his vote, it is the liberal from Illinois who gets his vote......That was a race move and he sold his principles because of the colour of Obama's skin, ergo he is as big a hypocrite as there is, I had a lot of respect for him at one point, now I have none and his opinion means Jack shit to me.

Would Powell have supported Hilary if she had the Democratic nomination in 2008?

He sold a party colleague down the river as he saw a chance to "change" politics - if he thought the democrats were more aligned with his own beliefs then surely he should have converted. But he didn't.

A very thin mask slipped when he backed the Kenyan lad who's biggest achievement was being a "community organizer".
No problem for Colin sticking the boot in to a decorated war hero. There's loyalty for you.

The same party who hung him out to dry at the UN and completely sidelined him in his role as Secretary of State in favour of the neoconservative Cheney/Rumsfeld axis (which worked out soooo well!)?

The same party who at the time of his endorsement of Obama had their candidate and running mate accusing Obama of "palling around with terrorists" and were plumbing the depths in bigoted, dog whistle appeals to "real" Americans even as an unprecedented financial crisis unfolded, about which McCain portrayed himself as completely unequipped to handle?

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about black people, never missing an opportunity to downplay prejudice they experience or accuse them themselves of racist attitudes.

Yawn, do you liberal arsewipes ever get tired of accusing people of racism? all I did was speak the truth about Powell and bang, you play the race card, I have no problem with people of color, i do have an issue with liberals that think the rules don't apply to them, I have a problem with looters and I give not one shire what color the looters are.

Lets see, Powell was a lifelong republican right up until Obama ran and then proof, he betrays his principles, his friends and votes, for the first time mind you, for Obama, a man who is everything he stood against his entire political career, does that not strike you as odd?

Unlike mealy mouthed gits like yourself i am not afraid to voice my opinion, it is ok you know to call people out when they are wrong, you just justify bad behavior because hey, the disruptors/ looters are liberals like yourself.

Didn't say a word to YOU stew about your attitude towards blacks. My response was NOT to your post.

And please point out WHERE or WHEN I justified bad behaviour by disruptors or looters?

It wasn't here anyway:

Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2016, 11:11:24 PM

Protest... absolutely. Getting on stage or fighting, absolutely not. That's what security and police is for. And that goes for liberal protestors as well as Trump supporters assaulting people.


As for you calling me a "mealy mouthed git", I'm sorry you feel that way, but given that this is not the first time you've misread my posts, I'll not worry too much about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2016, 11:25:55 PM
Quote from: stew on March 15, 2016, 07:48:36 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2016, 06:30:54 AM
For the benefit of anyone joining the conversation, "PC brigade" is a generic term used by conservatives to dismiss anyone who's not a racist, fascist, banjo-playing, right wing extremist yearning for the good old days of segregation and slavery.

The democrat party was the party of slavery was it not?

You are trolling with that crap but you are also dumb enough to believe that drivel you wrote.

Christ, do we HAVE to go over the 60s and the southern strategy AGAIN??  ::) ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2016, 11:33:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 11:10:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 08:29:03 PM
They are all sport related.

Trump is bringing it mainstream and bringing it everywhere.

Serious question, do they allow everyone take guns into Republican political rallies?

Eh....the chanting which so offended Declans friend occurred at a school basketball game. 

They can bring them into any political rally as long as the state and local laws allow it and you have a vaild permit. Some individual facilities may have a blanket ban though but its questionable if that would stand up if challenged in court

Didn't know that.

It will be interesting to see where Trump goes with his rhetoric. If he tones it down, fine. If he cranks it up, then it could get very messy.

I double checked on the guns and stand corrected........once a candidate gets Secret Service protection, open or concealed carry is no longer permitted at their events

On one level that makes sense, but on another it is very much one law for important people and another for everyone else.

Sometimes that is appropriate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2016, 11:34:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 11:10:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2016, 08:29:03 PM
They are all sport related.

Trump is bringing it mainstream and bringing it everywhere.

Serious question, do they allow everyone take guns into Republican political rallies?

Eh....the chanting which so offended Declans friend occurred at a school basketball game. 

They can bring them into any political rally as long as the state and local laws allow it and you have a vaild permit. Some individual facilities may have a blanket ban though but its questionable if that would stand up if challenged in court

Didn't know that.

It will be interesting to see where Trump goes with his rhetoric. If he tones it down, fine. If he cranks it up, then it could get very messy.

I double checked on the guns and stand corrected........once a candidate gets Secret Service protection, open or concealed carry is no longer permitted at their events

On one level that makes sense, but on another it is very much one law for important people and another for everyone else.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/11/open-carry-gun-protesters-will-greet-obama-in-texas/

But while gun-rights advocates might want to bring their firearms near the president, the Secret Service has invoked its authority under federal law to prevent that from happening. Hoback said in an email that Sections 3056 and 1752 of Title 18 in the U.S. Code give the agency the right to prevent "firearms from entering sites visited by" officials they are protecting, "including those located in open-carry states."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2016, 12:05:08 AM
Trump hammered Rubio in Florida. That should be the end for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2016, 12:27:32 AM
Yep, Rubio's gone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2016, 01:05:44 AM
Russia backs Trump: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35811495 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35811495)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2016, 03:19:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2016, 10:56:05 PM
I double checked on the guns and stand corrected........once a candidate gets Secret Service protection, open or concealed carry is no longer permitted at their events

And are they outraged about this violation of their Second Amendment rights?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2016, 03:25:03 AM
Heard a good one about Trump. Reminds me of an old boss I used to have. Since he made his money in real estate, it means he didn't have to do an awful lot of actual work to get rich. I know a few people like that in the states.

By all accounts he's a bit of an obsessive compulsive micromanager who's obsessed with his image in the media. He starts every day with a pile of newspapers with sticky notes dutifully put there by his assistant to bookmark any stories mentioning him. He'd been known to call senior people in his company to ask them to remove a piece of litter outside the building. When it comes to certain things like construction he refuses to delegate, insists on being in on the smallest of details, and they reckon he sees this "great wall of America" (to keep out the non-existent swarms of migrants) as just another construction job that he wants to get his teeth into.

He has a very thin skin and takes every criticism personally, which is why he surrounds himself with yes men. Since it's a private company, it's a flat organization, and hence he has no experience of running an actual large organization where you have to delegate.

When he says he is qualified to be President based on his business experience, that is factually, empirically incorrect.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 16, 2016, 03:33:23 AM
Just wondering, how many are eligible to vote?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2016, 04:47:56 AM
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/119/505/094.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on March 16, 2016, 11:43:22 AM

Question for those better informed than me...

Runners for both the democratic and Republican nominations have done and continue to drop out of both races. Where do the delegates that these runners previously won across various states then be assigned?

The us networks are making a big deal about how many delegates each still need. I'm wondering, for example, where rubio's delegates go.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 16, 2016, 12:00:41 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 16, 2016, 11:43:22 AM

Question for those better informed than me...

Runners for both the democratic and Republican nominations have done and continue to drop out of both races. Where do the delegates that these runners previously won across various states then be assigned?

The us networks are making a big deal about how many delegates each still need. I'm wondering, for example, where rubio's delegates go.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/primary2.htm

Ostensibly, the delegates go to the national convention uncommitted, like superdelegates. There, they should be allowed to vote however they choose.

These delegates may also be folded into another candidate's delegates. If a candidate drops out of the race, he or she may endorse a rival candidate in the same party. Once this happens, the delegates formerly belonging to the candidate may pledge to the endorsed one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 16, 2016, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 16, 2016, 11:43:22 AM
The us networks are making a big deal about how many delegates each still need. I'm wondering, for example, where rubio's delegates go.

There are probably still a few phone boxes/booths left in Cleveland.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2016, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2016, 04:47:56 AM
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/119/505/094.png)

Yes - in between trips to visit the tooth fairy and santa claus.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 16, 2016, 01:46:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2016, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2016, 04:47:56 AM
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/119/505/094.png)

Yes - in between trips to visit the tooth fairy and santa claus.

Was Bin Laden not caught and killed under Obama's watch?!!

What fabrication are you trying to come up with now? Was it Trump all along?!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on March 16, 2016, 02:52:20 PM
It's all very scary to watch unfold. I don't know any Trump supporters. I'd love to know why they support him.  He is building up steam now and looks to be the front runner.
Any chance of a 3rd party emerging at this point? Or an independent candidate like Romney stepping up or is it too late?

Russia backs Trump. The KKK backs Trump... speaks volumes.

Obama should run for a 3rd term. Maybe that was the plan all along. Save the day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: deiseach on March 16, 2016, 02:59:00 PM
Obama trolling the GOP by nominating a libtard to the Supreme Court (http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/mar/16/obama-nominates-merrick-garland-supreme-court-dc-appeals-court-judge). Yer man must have a thicker skin than a rhinoceros.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2016, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 16, 2016, 02:59:00 PM
Obama trolling the GOP by nominating a libtard to the Supreme Court (http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/mar/16/obama-nominates-merrick-garland-supreme-court-dc-appeals-court-judge). Yer man must have a thicker skin than a rhinoceros.

Smart.

They will be apoplectic. There will be a massive row, filibuster, etc. etc.

Then there will be a compromise on something or other, like the debt mountain, or Obamacare. And he will nominate someone else. And everyone will be happy. Until the Reptards realise what happened. Probably at Hilary's inauguration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on March 16, 2016, 05:02:57 PM
Muppet just out of curiosity do you want Hilary in? Just so a Republican isn't in power?

I'm afraid many people will vote for Trump  - just so a Democrat isn't in the white house.

Both for me are very scary options....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2016, 05:18:14 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 16, 2016, 05:02:57 PM
Muppet just out of curiosity do you want Hilary in? Just so a Republican isn't in power?

I'm afraid many people will vote for Trump  - just so a Democrat isn't in the white house.

Both for me are very scary options....

Good question.

Trying to read behind it, it seems no one could possibly think she might be any good as President. I just think she is by far the best of the bunch running. Her personality doesn't do anything for me, but that doesn't matter. Calling her a liar is hysterically funny, considering no one over here believes anything politicians say (except maybe the party lackies).

I think Sanders is unelectable, but I could be wrong. I just think he is too far to the left for the US (or from the right-wing datum that they call the center over there).

I think Trump is not only unelectable, but unacceptable to many likely partners. Remember the international reaction to this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jörg_Haider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rg_Haider). There could be a lot more of this if Trump gets in: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/05/politics/donald-trump-uk-ban-debate/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/05/politics/donald-trump-uk-ban-debate/index.html) Is that what America wants?

But in general, after the Bush Wars for Bush cronies, there is no way I want to see a Republican in charge of US military policy again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2016, 05:47:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 05:18:14 PM
But in general, after the Bush Wars for Bush cronies, there is no way I want to see a Republican in charge of US military policy again.

(http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275796/Article/images/16963037/4157324.jpg)

Latest score: Bush 4 Obama 7


Bush: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia.

Obama: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 16, 2016, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 16, 2016, 02:52:20 PM
It's all very scary to watch unfold. I don't know any Trump supporters. I'd love to know why they support him.  He is building up steam now and looks to be the front runner.
Any chance of a 3rd party emerging at this point? Or an independent candidate like Romney stepping up or is it too late?

Russia backs Trump. The KKK backs Trump... speaks volumes.

Obama should run for a 3rd term. Maybe that was the plan all along. Save the day.

2 and done thank the almighty, he is a walking disaster.

Remember Isis being the. JV squad?, Jesus wept.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on March 16, 2016, 05:52:48 PM
Quote from: stew on March 16, 2016, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 16, 2016, 02:52:20 PM
It's all very scary to watch unfold. I don't know any Trump supporters. I'd love to know why they support him.  He is building up steam now and looks to be the front runner.
Any chance of a 3rd party emerging at this point? Or an independent candidate like Romney stepping up or is it too late?

Russia backs Trump. The KKK backs Trump... speaks volumes.

Obama should run for a 3rd term. Maybe that was the plan all along. Save the day.

2 and done thank the almighty, he is a walking disaster.

Remember Isis being the. JV squad?, Jesus wept.
I am not hoping for this Stew on any level - i think he is a horrible president - I just speculate that this was the plan all along. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 16, 2016, 05:53:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2016, 05:47:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 05:18:14 PM
But in general, after the Bush Wars for Bush cronies, there is no way I want to see a Republican in charge of US military policy again.

(http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275796/Article/images/16963037/4157324.jpg)

Latest score: Bush 4 Obama 7


Bush: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia.

Obama: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.

Emm, if you're talking about wars started under his presidency then surely it is 4-3 to Bush? Maths not a strong point, no, Fox?

And we're the libtards  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2016, 06:08:16 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 16, 2016, 05:53:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2016, 05:47:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 05:18:14 PM
But in general, after the Bush Wars for Bush cronies, there is no way I want to see a Republican in charge of US military policy again.

(http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275796/Article/images/16963037/4157324.jpg)

Latest score: Bush 4 Obama 7


Bush: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia.

Obama: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.

Emm, if you're talking about wars started under his presidency then surely it is 4-3 to Bush? Maths not a strong point, no, Fox?

And we're the libtards  ::)

Obama hasn't invaded any country.

The score is Bush 2 (Iraq & Afghanistan) Obama 0.

American lives lost to date in those wars are 2,229 & 4,488 respectively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war)

Obama did announce Operation Inherent Resolve (Operations against ISIL) in 2014. At the end of 2015 there appear to have been 4 US military fatalities according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Inherent_Resolve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Inherent_Resolve)

More information here: http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf (http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf)

Comparing Bush's war record and Obama's is absurd. And despite everything George 'we're gonna smoke them out' Bush didn't get Bin Laden, Obama did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 16, 2016, 06:31:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 06:08:16 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 16, 2016, 05:53:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2016, 05:47:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 05:18:14 PM
But in general, after the Bush Wars for Bush cronies, there is no way I want to see a Republican in charge of US military policy again.

(http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275796/Article/images/16963037/4157324.jpg)

Latest score: Bush 4 Obama 7


Bush: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia.

Obama: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.

Emm, if you're talking about wars started under his presidency then surely it is 4-3 to Bush? Maths not a strong point, no, Fox?

And we're the libtards  ::)

Obama hasn't invaded any country.

The score is Bush 2 (Iraq & Afghanistan) Obama 0.

American lives lost to date in those wars are 2,229 & 4,488 respectively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war)

Obama did announce Operation Inherent Resolve (Operations against ISIL) in 2014. At the end of 2015 there appear to have been 4 US military fatalities according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Inherent_Resolve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Inherent_Resolve)

More information here: http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf (http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf)

Comparing Bush's war record and Obama's is absurd. And despite everything George 'we're gonna smoke them out' Bush didn't get Bin Laden, Obama did.

The military had on several occasions known where he was with reasonable certainty, he refused to pull the pin and that hesitation cost lives unfortunately, I will give him credit for nailing the bastard however.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2016, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 16, 2016, 05:52:48 PM
Quote from: stew on March 16, 2016, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 16, 2016, 02:52:20 PM
It's all very scary to watch unfold. I don't know any Trump supporters. I'd love to know why they support him.  He is building up steam now and looks to be the front runner.
Any chance of a 3rd party emerging at this point? Or an independent candidate like Romney stepping up or is it too late?

Russia backs Trump. The KKK backs Trump... speaks volumes.

Obama should run for a 3rd term. Maybe that was the plan all along. Save the day.

2 and done thank the almighty, he is a walking disaster.

Remember Isis being the. JV squad?, Jesus wept.
I am not hoping for this Stew on any level - i think he is a horrible president - I just speculate that this was the plan all along.

You think Obama thinks/hopes they will repeal an amendment to the constitution in the next seven months so he can run again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2016, 06:39:59 PM
Quote from: stew on March 16, 2016, 06:31:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 06:08:16 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 16, 2016, 05:53:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2016, 05:47:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 05:18:14 PM
But in general, after the Bush Wars for Bush cronies, there is no way I want to see a Republican in charge of US military policy again.

(http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275796/Article/images/16963037/4157324.jpg)

Latest score: Bush 4 Obama 7


Bush: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia.

Obama: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.

Emm, if you're talking about wars started under his presidency then surely it is 4-3 to Bush? Maths not a strong point, no, Fox?

And we're the libtards  ::)

Obama hasn't invaded any country.

The score is Bush 2 (Iraq & Afghanistan) Obama 0.

American lives lost to date in those wars are 2,229 & 4,488 respectively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war)

Obama did announce Operation Inherent Resolve (Operations against ISIL) in 2014. At the end of 2015 there appear to have been 4 US military fatalities according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Inherent_Resolve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Inherent_Resolve)

More information here: http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf (http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf)

Comparing Bush's war record and Obama's is absurd. And despite everything George 'we're gonna smoke them out' Bush didn't get Bin Laden, Obama did.

The military had on several occasions known where he was with reasonable certainty, he refused to pull the pin and that hesitation cost lives unfortunately, I will give him credit for nailing the b**tard however.

Killing Bin Laden or not probably didn't cost or save lives. It was simply revenge, or justice as George W called it. But it was entirely understandable given the circumstances.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2016, 08:30:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 05:18:14 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 16, 2016, 05:02:57 PM
Muppet just out of curiosity do you want Hilary in? Just so a Republican isn't in power?

I'm afraid many people will vote for Trump  - just so a Democrat isn't in the white house.

Both for me are very scary options....

Good question.

Trying to read behind it, it seems no one could possibly think she might be any good as President. I just think she is by far the best of the bunch running. Her personality doesn't do anything for me, but that doesn't matter. Calling her a liar is hysterically funny, considering no one over here believes anything politicians say (except maybe the party lackies).

I think Sanders is unelectable, but I could be wrong. I just think he is too far to the left for the US (or from the right-wing datum that they call the center over there).

I think Trump is not only unelectable, but unacceptable to many likely partners. Remember the international reaction to this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jörg_Haider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rg_Haider). There could be a lot more of this if Trump gets in: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/05/politics/donald-trump-uk-ban-debate/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/05/politics/donald-trump-uk-ban-debate/index.html) Is that what America wants?

But in general, after the Bush Wars for Bush cronies, there is no way I want to see a Republican in charge of US military policy again.
Hillary represents  continuity of Wall St rules, pauperisation of the working class, war and economic incoherence. The elites who back her have nothing to offer Dick and Jane . The US is heading into a particularly volatile decade and failed business as usual is not going to work.

•   No matter how well-written or delivered, a speech cannot divert whole societies from a well-established course of action. Policies in motion tend to remain in motion; to change the trajectory of a deeply-entrenched set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal momentum

Sanders if elected could start that process but none of the others can . The US is like Ireland in 2005.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2016, 09:11:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 16, 2016, 02:59:00 PM
Obama trolling the GOP by nominating a libtard to the Supreme Court (http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/mar/16/obama-nominates-merrick-garland-supreme-court-dc-appeals-court-judge). Yer man must have a thicker skin than a rhinoceros.

Smart.

They will be apoplectic. There will be a massive row, filibuster, etc. etc.

Then there will be a compromise on something or other, like the debt mountain, or Obamacare. And he will nominate someone else. And everyone will be happy. Until the Reptards realise what happened. Probably at Hilary's inauguration.

By all accounts this man is a moderate, even described by Orrin Hatch as a " consensus nominee" a few years back when he was hoping Obama would nominate him instead of Elena Kagan.

Should be interesting to see how they play this now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 16, 2016, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2016, 09:11:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2016, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 16, 2016, 02:59:00 PM
Obama trolling the GOP by nominating a libtard to the Supreme Court (http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/mar/16/obama-nominates-merrick-garland-supreme-court-dc-appeals-court-judge). Yer man must have a thicker skin than a rhinoceros.

Smart.

They will be apoplectic. There will be a massive row, filibuster, etc. etc.

Then there will be a compromise on something or other, like the debt mountain, or Obamacare. And he will nominate someone else. And everyone will be happy. Until the Reptards realise what happened. Probably at Hilary's inauguration.

By all accounts this man is a moderate, even described by Orrin Hatch as a " consensus nominee" a few years back when he was hoping Obama would nominate him instead of Elena Kagan.

Should be interesting to see how they play this now.
That was my understanding. He was described as the most centrist option. It looked like BO selected him just to push the GOP into a corner on the fillibuster threats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 16, 2016, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 15, 2016, 03:11:14 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 14, 2015, 10:30:18 AM
Just skimming through this thread.

Fox and Stew are complete lunatics.

Sin e.

And getting worse lol
I would not put Stew in that bracket. He is a conservative and he gets wound up easily but he is not a lunatic like the "Kenyan" hater.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 16, 2016, 10:00:47 PM
Think they'll stall in hopes of a GOP presidential win, thereby allowing for a much more conservative justice.  In the event of a DEM victory, watch out for a frantic all hands on deck approach as they scramble to accept Obama's choice in the actual lame duck period, fearing that a Clinton/Sanders choice would be much less palatable.

What infuriates me is their blatant hypocrisy.  Obama won the last election by around 5,000,000 and the one before that by about 10,000,000.  That's why he has the title PRESIDENT.  These people say that the voice of the people should be heard, but it has been heard, loud and clear.  Obama was their choice, and according to the Constitution, which they revere as though it were carved on tablets of stone, it is the president's duty to nominate a justice, and theirs to advise and consent.  Thus, whether or not they accept Obama's choice, they should in fairness give him a hearing. 

This obstructionism has been the hallmark of GOP tactics during Obama's presidency, and has been quintessentially Cruz, so I just hope that this gamble explodes in their faces.  Obama's pick seems ideal, so slap it in til em for their greed and hypocrisy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2016, 10:41:49 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 16, 2016, 10:00:47 PM
Think they'll stall in hopes of a GOP presidential win, thereby allowing for a much more conservative justice.  In the event of a DEM victory, watch out for a frantic all hands on deck approach as they scramble to accept Obama's choice in the actual lame duck period, fearing that a Clinton/Sanders choice would be much less palatable.

What infuriates me is their blatant hypocrisy.  Obama won the last election by around 5,000,000 and the one before that by about 10,000,000.  That's why he has the title PRESIDENT.  These people say that the voice of the people should be heard, but it has been heard, loud and clear.  Obama was their choice, and according to the Constitution, which they revere as though it were carved on tablets of stone, it is the president's duty to nominate a justice, and theirs to advise and consent.  Thus, whether or not they accept Obama's choice, they should in fairness give him a hearing. 

This obstructionism has been the hallmark of GOP tactics during Obama's presidency, and has been quintessentially Cruz, so I just hope that this gamble explodes in their faces.  Obama's pick seems ideal, so slap it in til em for their greed and hypocrisy.

Do you think the US is a democracy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 16, 2016, 11:18:29 PM
What an absurd thought, Muppet!!! 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 16, 2016, 11:57:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 16, 2016, 11:18:29 PM
What an absurd thought, Muppet!!!

Oraisteach.....how closely do you follow the news, or do you just ignore the parts that dont suit you?

3 Senior Democrats...Joe Biden, Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer are all on record saying a president should not nominate anyone to the supreme court during an election year.  I'll see if I can find the clips for you if you dont believe me

But now that the shoe is on the other foot, theyre frothing at the mouth with indignation-LOL

Get over it....its politics, and a Democratic Senate would be doing exactly the same if it was the final year of a Republican Administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 17, 2016, 12:22:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 16, 2016, 11:57:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 16, 2016, 11:18:29 PM
What an absurd thought, Muppet!!!

Oraisteach.....how closely do you follow the news, or do you just ignore the parts that dont suit you?

3 Senior Democrats...Joe Biden, Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer are all on record saying a president should not nominate anyone to the supreme court during an election year.  I'll see if I can find the clips for you if you dont believe me

But now that the shoe is on the other foot, theyre frothing at the mouth with indignation-LOL

Get over it....its politics, and a Democratic Senate would be doing exactly the same if it was the final year of a Republican Administration

Except that the current GOP congress, on top of all the rest of their obstructionism, has brought the blocking of justices and other appointments to levels never, ever even approached in the past.

The Dems have rhetoric against them. No one knows if they would have followed through. Politicians are ALWAYS making threats, usually in the hope of influencing or cowing the opposition or as a starting positin. The last time this issue came up, Reagan got his appointment (even the one who was rejected, Bork, before Kennedy's nomination, got hearings and a vote).

The GOP, on the other hand, are intent on actual action (or lack of action). There is NO precedent for what they are doing. But, if they follow through with their threats, they're setting one, and the shoe will be on the other foot eventually, just as it will for all of the other positions they've refused to allow be filled.

This is partly why it makes me laugh when you hear the right wing media and GOP base whining about the people they've sent to Washington doing nothing for them. Have they been asleep for the past seven years? Or is it that they think only the people THEY elect should matter when it comes to the give and take of democracy? That only THEIR elected politicians should get everything THEY want, despite the fact that the country overwhelmingly elected and reelected the current president?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 17, 2016, 12:50:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 17, 2016, 12:22:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 16, 2016, 11:57:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 16, 2016, 11:18:29 PM
What an absurd thought, Muppet!!!

Oraisteach.....how closely do you follow the news, or do you just ignore the parts that dont suit you?

3 Senior Democrats...Joe Biden, Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer are all on record saying a president should not nominate anyone to the supreme court during an election year.  I'll see if I can find the clips for you if you dont believe me

But now that the shoe is on the other foot, theyre frothing at the mouth with indignation-LOL

Get over it....its politics, and a Democratic Senate would be doing exactly the same if it was the final year of a Republican Administration

Except that the current GOP congress, on top of all the rest of their obstructionism, has brought the blocking of justices and other appointments to levels never, ever even approached in the past.

The Dems have rhetoric against them. No one knows if they would have followed through. Politicians are ALWAYS making threats, usually in the hope of influencing or cowing the opposition or as a starting positin. The last time this issue came up, Reagan got his appointment (even the one who was rejected, Bork, before Kennedy's nomination, got hearings and a vote).

The GOP, on the other hand, are intent on actual action (or lack of action). There is NO precedent for what they are doing. But, if they follow through with their threats, they're setting one, and the shoe will be on the other foot eventually, just as it will for all of the other positions they've refused to allow be filled.

This is partly why it makes me laugh when you hear the right wing media and GOP base whining about the people they've sent to Washington doing nothing for them. Have they been asleep for the past seven years? Or is it that they think only the people THEY elect should matter when it comes to the give and take of democracy? That only THEIR elected politicians should get everything THEY want, despite the fact that the country overwhelmingly elected and reelected the current president?


Not to mention Obamas filibuster of Alito

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/269719-white-house-obama-regrets-his-filibuster-of-supreme-court-nominee

As a senator from Illinois, Obama and 23 other senators attempted to stage a filibuster to block a confirmation vote on Alito, one of former President George W. Bush's picks to serve on the bench. The filibuster bid failed and Alito was confirmed.

Each side is as bad as the other, its the blatant hypocrisy and double standard of the Dems that I find amusing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 17, 2016, 01:14:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 12:50:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 17, 2016, 12:22:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 16, 2016, 11:57:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 16, 2016, 11:18:29 PM
What an absurd thought, Muppet!!!

Oraisteach.....how closely do you follow the news, or do you just ignore the parts that dont suit you?

3 Senior Democrats...Joe Biden, Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer are all on record saying a president should not nominate anyone to the supreme court during an election year.  I'll see if I can find the clips for you if you dont believe me

But now that the shoe is on the other foot, theyre frothing at the mouth with indignation-LOL

Get over it....its politics, and a Democratic Senate would be doing exactly the same if it was the final year of a Republican Administration

Except that the current GOP congress, on top of all the rest of their obstructionism, has brought the blocking of justices and other appointments to levels never, ever even approached in the past.

The Dems have rhetoric against them. No one knows if they would have followed through. Politicians are ALWAYS making threats, usually in the hope of influencing or cowing the opposition or as a starting positin. The last time this issue came up, Reagan got his appointment (even the one who was rejected, Bork, before Kennedy's nomination, got hearings and a vote).

The GOP, on the other hand, are intent on actual action (or lack of action). There is NO precedent for what they are doing. But, if they follow through with their threats, they're setting one, and the shoe will be on the other foot eventually, just as it will for all of the other positions they've refused to allow be filled.

This is partly why it makes me laugh when you hear the right wing media and GOP base whining about the people they've sent to Washington doing nothing for them. Have they been asleep for the past seven years? Or is it that they think only the people THEY elect should matter when it comes to the give and take of democracy? That only THEIR elected politicians should get everything THEY want, despite the fact that the country overwhelmingly elected and reelected the current president?


Not to mention Obamas filibuster of Alito

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/269719-white-house-obama-regrets-his-filibuster-of-supreme-court-nominee

As a senator from Illinois, Obama and 23 other senators attempted to stage a filibuster to block a confirmation vote on Alito, one of former President George W. Bush's picks to serve on the bench. The filibuster bid failed and Alito was confirmed.

Each side is as bad as the other, its the blatant hypocrisy and double standard of the Dems that I find amusing

Again, the idea that the GOP won't even entertain (won't even MEET with) ANY nominee is unprecedented. Both sides filibuster, absolutely. Most politicians are indeed hypocrites. It's part of the game. But there has been NOTHING like the GOP's sheer rate of blocking and refusal to consider nominees for ANYTHING before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 17, 2016, 02:08:58 AM
Whitey, very very closely.  This obstructionist GOP gang is despicable.  Throw in election stealing and gerrymandering.  Whitey?  Some names hit the nail on the head.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 07:15:14 AM
The GOP is in a death spiral. The party is run by extremists on the orders of the Kochs and other super wealthy including very shady Zionists. There is nobody for white blue collar yanks to vote for. The shutdown in 2013 was engineered by Cruz and could have bankrupted the country. Healthcare will bankrupt the country. The GOP is even sadder than FF.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 17, 2016, 08:24:57 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 07:15:14 AM
The GOP is in a death spiral. The party is run by extremists on the orders of the Kochs and other super wealthy including very shady Zionists. There is nobody for white blue collar yanks to vote for. The shutdown in 2013 was engineered by Cruz and could have bankrupted the country. Healthcare will bankrupt the country. The GOP is even sadder than FF.
So it is the Jews behind it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 17, 2016, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 16, 2016, 10:00:47 PM
Think they'll stall in hopes of a GOP presidential win, thereby allowing for a much more conservative justice.  In the event of a DEM victory, watch out for a frantic all hands on deck approach as they scramble to accept Obama's choice in the actual lame duck period, fearing that a Clinton/Sanders choice would be much less palatable.

What infuriates me is their blatant hypocrisy.  Obama won the last election by around 5,000,000 and the one before that by about 10,000,000.  That's why he has the title PRESIDENT.  These people say that the voice of the people should be heard, but it has been heard, loud and clear.  Obama was their choice, and according to the Constitution, which they revere as though it were carved on tablets of stone, it is the president's duty to nominate a justice, and theirs to advise and consent.  Thus, whether or not they accept Obama's choice, they should in fairness give him a hearing. 

This obstructionism has been the hallmark of GOP tactics during Obama's presidency, and has been quintessentially Cruz, so I just hope that this gamble explodes in their faces.  Obama's pick seems ideal, so slap it in til em for their greed and hypocrisy.

Clinton is your darling, a corporate,american killing whore, how the f**k do you sleep at night? Hypocrites abound in both parties, the only person running that gives a shire about the people is Sanders, why not stand behind him, all of you liberals?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 10:41:21 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 17, 2016, 08:24:57 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 07:15:14 AM
The GOP is in a death spiral. The party is run by extremists on the orders of the Kochs and other super wealthy including very shady Zionists. There is nobody for white blue collar yanks to vote for. The shutdown in 2013 was engineered by Cruz and could have bankrupted the country. Healthcare will bankrupt the country. The GOP is even sadder than FF.
So it is the Jews behind it?
Not just Jews but Koch, Adelson and a few others are card carrying war mongering Jews.  It is very like the 1930s. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump brought outo the antisemitism card. The Zionists do not have a popular base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 17, 2016, 11:09:42 AM
Some lads see every single issue as absolute or as an end in itself.

Sometimes political acts are simply tactical. Filibuster can be used with no intention of winning on the issue in question, but as leverage for something else. Politicians lose their principles early, so just because they objected to something in the past is no reason to assume they will support the opposite in the future
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 11:54:13 AM
The US is not a democracy. It is a plutocracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 17, 2016, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 17, 2016, 02:08:58 AM
Whitey, very very closely.  This obstructionist GOP gang is despicable.  Throw in election stealing and gerrymandering.  Whitey?  Some names hit the nail on the head.

So youre not even a tad embarrassed that 3 senior Democrats are on record saying that no one should be appointed to the Supreme Court in the final year of a presidential term? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 17, 2016, 02:08:58 AM
Whitey, very very closely.  This obstructionist GOP gang is despicable.  Throw in election stealing and gerrymandering.  THE Whitey?  Some names hit the nail on the head.
So youre not even a tad embarrassed that 3 senior Democrats are on record saying that no one should be appointed to the Supreme Court in the final year of a presidential term?
The GOP is a clown car at this stage. They even lost their own voter base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 17, 2016, 02:08:58 AM
Whitey, very very closely.  This obstructionist GOP gang is despicable.  Throw in election stealing and gerrymandering.  Whitey?  Some names hit the nail on the head.

So youre not even a tad embarrassed that 3 senior Democrats are on record saying that no one should be appointed to the Supreme Court in the final year of a presidential term?

Not quite right.

This is what Biden said in his speech:

Quote"If the president consults and cooperates with the Senate or moderates his selections absent consultation, then his nominees may enjoy my support as did Justices Kennedy and Souter. But if he does not, as is the President's right, then I will oppose his future nominees as is my right," Biden said in the speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 17, 2016, 12:31:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 17, 2016, 02:08:58 AM
Whitey, very very closely.  This obstructionist GOP gang is despicable.  Throw in election stealing and gerrymandering.  Whitey?  Some names hit the nail on the head.

So youre not even a tad embarrassed that 3 senior Democrats are on record saying that no one should be appointed to the Supreme Court in the final year of a presidential term?

Not quite right.

This is what Biden said in his speech:

Quote"If the president consults and cooperates with the Senate or moderates his selections absent consultation, then his nominees may enjoy my support as did Justices Kennedy and Souter. But if he does not, as is the President's right, then I will oppose his future nominees as is my right," Biden said in the speech.

He also said

"As a result, it is my view that if a Supreme Court justice resigns tomorrow or within the next several weeks, or resigns at the end of the summer, President Bush should consider following the practice of a majority of his predecessors and not — and not — name a nominee until after the November election is completed.

The Senate too, Mr. President, must consider how it would respond to a Supreme Court vacancy that would occur in the full throes of an election year. It is my view that if the President goes the way of Presidents Fillmore and Johnson and presses an election year nomination, the Senate Judiciary Committee should seriously consider not scheduling confirmation hearings on the nomination until after the political campaign season is over.

And I sadly predict, Mr. President, that this is going to be one of the bitterest, dirtiest presidential campaigns we will have seen in modern times.

I'm sure, Mr. President, after having uttered these words, some will criticize such a decision, and say that it was nothing more than an attempt to save a seat on the court in hopes that a Democrat will be permitted to fill it. But that would not be our intention, Mr. President, if that were the course we were to choose as a Senate, to not consider holding hearings until after the election.

Instead, it would be our pragmatic conclusion that once the political season is underway — and it is — action on a Supreme Court nomination must be put off until after the election campaign is over. That is what is fair to the nominee, and essential to the process. Otherwise, it seems to me Mr. President, we will be in deep trouble as an institution."


The fact he was Senate Judiciary Committee Chair at the time of these utterances make it even more scandalous
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 01:18:44 PM
The GOP are wasting their time thinking they will be in the WH come Jan 1. Santa Claus has a better chance of appearing live in the Playboy house. The SC will be 5/4 libtard and Red country wil jes have to suck it up, baby.

the likes of Scalia and the other cons have destroyed the US. Citizens Unlimited is why the GOP base left the GOP. all the Kochs are interested in is more money. The GOP elite is Kochsucking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on March 17, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Would you shut the fcuk up about the Kochs. You sound like Jim f**king Corr.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 17, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Would you shut the fcuk up about the Kochs. You sound like Jim f**king Corr.
Last time they spent 412m trying to beat Obama. The money buys climate change deniers like Rubio in DC. They are worse than scum and people like them have destroyed the GOP. The party just lost its base. Both parties are riddled with corruption but the GOP is further advanced into obsolescence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 17, 2016, 03:01:10 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 17, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Would you shut the fcuk up about the Kochs. You sound like Jim f**king Corr.

The liberals on here are just mad for Kochs. Can't get enough of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on March 17, 2016, 03:14:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 17, 2016, 03:01:10 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 17, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Would you shut the fcuk up about the Kochs. You sound like Jim f**king Corr.

The liberals on here are just mad for Kochs. Can't get enough of them.

I wondered where that post had gone!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 17, 2016, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 17, 2016, 03:14:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 17, 2016, 03:01:10 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 17, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Would you shut the fcuk up about the Kochs. You sound like Jim f**king Corr.

The liberals on here are just mad for Kochs. Can't get enough of them.

I wondered where that post had gone!

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 17, 2016, 05:09:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
You reap what you sow
Do you ever think that before you post?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 05:35:37 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 17, 2016, 05:09:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
You reap what you sow
not with Monsanto
Do you ever think that before you post?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 17, 2016, 05:53:59 PM
From that well known liberal mag The Economist


Donald Trump wins the US presidential election
Moderate probability, High impact; Risk intensity = Global risk intensity|Moderate probability, High impact
March 17th 2016
Introduction
The businessman and political novice, Donald Trump, has built a strong lead in the Republican party primary, and looks the firm favourite to be the party's candidate in the US presidential election in November.

Analysis
Thus far Mr Trump has given very few details of his policies - and these tend to be prone to constant revision - but a few themes have become apparent. First, he has been exceptionally hostile towards free trade, including notably NAFTA, and has repeatedly labelled China as a "currency manipulator". He has also taken an exceptionally right-wing stance on the Middle East and jihadi terrorism, including, among other things, advocating the killing of families of terrorists and launching a land incursion into Syria to wipe out IS (and acquire its oil). In the event of a Trump victory, his hostile attitude to free trade, and alienation of Mexico and China in particular, could escalate rapidly into a trade war - and at the least scupper the Trans-Pacific Partnership between the US and 11 other American and Asian states signed in February 2016. His militaristic tendencies towards the Middle East (and ban on all Muslim travel to the US) would be a potent recruitment tool for jihadi groups, increasing their threat both within the region and beyond.

Conclusion
Although we do not expect Mr Trump to defeat his most likely Democratic contender, Hillary Clinton, there are risks to this forecast, especially in the event of a terrorist attack on US soil or a sudden economic downturn. It is worth noting that the innate hostility within the Republican hierarchy towards Mr Trump, combined with the inevitable virulent Democratic opposition, will see many of his more radical policies blocked in Congress - albeit such internal bickering will also undermine the coherence of domestic and foreign policymaking.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 17, 2016, 05:53:59 PM
From that well known liberal mag The Economist


Donald Trump wins the US presidential election
Moderate probability, High impact; Risk intensity = Global risk intensity|Moderate probability, High impact
March 17th 2016
Introduction
The businessman and political novice, Donald Trump, has built a strong lead in the Republican party primary, and looks the firm favourite to be the party's candidate in the US presidential election in November.

Analysis
Thus far Mr Trump has given very few details of his policies - and these tend to be prone to constant revision - but a few themes have become apparent. First, he has been exceptionally hostile towards free trade, including notably NAFTA, and has repeatedly labelled China as a "currency manipulator". He has also taken an exceptionally right-wing stance on the Middle East and jihadi terrorism, including, among other things, advocating the killing of families of terrorists and launching a land incursion into Syria to wipe out IS (and acquire its oil). In the event of a Trump victory, his hostile attitude to free trade, and alienation of Mexico and China in particular, could escalate rapidly into a trade war - and at the least scupper the Trans-Pacific Partnership between the US and 11 other American and Asian states signed in February 2016. His militaristic tendencies towards the Middle East (and ban on all Muslim travel to the US) would be a potent recruitment tool for jihadi groups, increasing their threat both within the region and beyond.

Conclusion
Although we do not expect Mr Trump to defeat his most likely Democratic contender, Hillary Clinton, there are risks to this forecast, especially in the event of a terrorist attack on US soil or a sudden economic downturn. It is worth noting that the innate hostility within the Republican hierarchy towards Mr Trump, combined with the inevitable virulent Democratic opposition, will see many of his more radical policies blocked in Congress - albeit such internal bickering will also undermine the coherence of domestic and foreign policymaking.
Good summary. Trump has aimed at feeding white evangelicals  back their resentment with entertainment thrown in. The Sunday World can do the same with crime reporting. But it is not coherent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 17, 2016, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow


"Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. "

No they didn't.

There is not one single instance where the Democrats advocated complete refusal to even hold hearings for the final year of a presidential term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 17, 2016, 06:57:27 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow


"Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. "

No they didn't.

There is not one single instance where the Democrats advocated complete refusal to even hold hearings for the final year of a presidential term.

Semantics, why do you lot never tell the full story?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 17, 2016, 07:09:21 PM
Stew, Clinton is not my darling.  Look at the options. Trump, hell no!  Cruz, hell no!  Kasich, no chance and comes across as more kindly than he actually is.  Sanders, not a chance that he'd ever be able to enact his agenda.  So, that leaves Clinton.  Certainly not ideal, but a Democrat, and therefore more likely to be compassionate/empathetic.  Wish Elizabeth Warren had run.  But if Bernie gets the nomination, I'll vote for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 17, 2016, 08:24:02 PM
http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/publiceditor/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/?referer=https://www.google.com/

Interesting decision by NYT to edit article that originally showed Bernie in a positive light
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 17, 2016, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow


"Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. "

No they didn't.

There is not one single instance where the Democrats advocated complete refusal to even hold hearings for the final year of a presidential term.
The current democrat party are way further to the left than ever before something to  be considered
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 18, 2016, 12:19:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2016, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow


"Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. "

No they didn't.

There is not one single instance where the Democrats advocated complete refusal to even hold hearings for the final year of a presidential term.
The current democrat party are way further to the left than ever before something to  be considered

In what way?

I'll grant you that the gap between them and the GOP has increased dramatically, but it ain't the Dems who've shifted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 18, 2016, 12:21:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 18, 2016, 12:19:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2016, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow


"Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. "

No they didn't.

There is not one single instance where the Democrats advocated complete refusal to even hold hearings for the final year of a presidential term.
The current democrat party are way further to the left than ever before something to  be considered

In what way?

I'll grant you that the gap between them and the GOP has increased dramatically, but it ain't the Dems who've shifted.

A Socialist has a really good chance of becoming the Dem nominee and you don't think the party has shifted to the left?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on March 18, 2016, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 18, 2016, 12:21:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 18, 2016, 12:19:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2016, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow


"Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. "

No they didn't.

There is not one single instance where the Democrats advocated complete refusal to even hold hearings for the final year of a presidential term.
The current democrat party are way further to the left than ever before something to  be considered

In what way?

I'll grant you that the gap between them and the GOP has increased dramatically, but it ain't the Dems who've shifted.

A Socialist has a really good chance of becoming the Dem nominee and you don't think the party has shifted to the left?

Except he hasn't
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 18, 2016, 12:39:37 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 18, 2016, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 18, 2016, 12:21:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 18, 2016, 12:19:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2016, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow


"Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. "

No they didn't.

There is not one single instance where the Democrats advocated complete refusal to even hold hearings for the final year of a presidential term.
The current democrat party are way further to the left than ever before something to  be considered

In what way?

I'll grant you that the gap between them and the GOP has increased dramatically, but it ain't the Dems who've shifted.

A Socialist has a really good chance of becoming the Dem nominee and you don't think the party has shifted to the left?

Except he hasn't

When all is said and done and this thing is done, he will have gotten almost as many actual votes as Hillary. Dem party won't (or at least wouldn't) release vote totals from Iowa because seemingingly Berne won more actual votes (per MSBNC)

It's only because of the super delegates his window s closing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 18, 2016, 12:44:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 18, 2016, 12:21:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 18, 2016, 12:19:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2016, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow


"Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. "

No they didn't.

There is not one single instance where the Democrats advocated complete refusal to even hold hearings for the final year of a presidential term.
The current democrat party are way further to the left than ever before something to  be considered

In what way?

I'll grant you that the gap between them and the GOP has increased dramatically, but it ain't the Dems who've shifted.

A Socialist has a really good chance of becoming the Dem nominee and you don't think the party has shifted to the left?


Bernie is one man, whose success (charisma aside) as a candidate is more a product of Hillary's problems as a candidate and the complete lack of alternatives than any vision he presents. The party itself is centre left in US terms, and centre right in international terms. He hasn't a single endorsement from a sitting Democratic senator and only a handful of house members. Hillary has 40 from current senators, including Sanders' Vermont colleague, Leahy.

He has no hope of winning the nomination anyway.

Insurgent candidates happen in primaries. They don't usually signal a grand shift in overall party position. They're more an outburst of enthusiasm from a certain faction within the party which usually gets overwhelmed by the mainstream favourite. Rick Santorum, Pat Buchanan, Bernie Sanders, Eugene McCarthy etc. etc. Bernie has gone further than most, but he hasn't had much to oppose him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 18, 2016, 12:48:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 18, 2016, 12:39:37 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 18, 2016, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 18, 2016, 12:21:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 18, 2016, 12:19:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2016, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 17, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
Republicans have cherry picked some of his speech, without considering the olive branch near the end, which I quoted.

Could Republicans make exactly the same speech now, including the olive branch?

I seriously doubt it.

And you seriously think the Dems would not be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

(And What about Schumers and Harry Reid's comments-wete they also taken out of context-LOL)

The Dems have never refused to hold hearings for a republican nomination for almost a full year.
Kennedy was confirmed by a Democratic majority Senate in an election year.
Bork, even though he was strongly opposed by many Democrats was given a hearing, a vote in the Judiciary committee (which he lost) and even a vote on the floor of the Senate (despite not getting passed by the Judiciary committee)

Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. You reap what you sow


"Three of the highest ranking and highest profile Democrats advocated doing exactly what the Republicans are now doing at various points in the last 25 Years. "

No they didn't.

There is not one single instance where the Democrats advocated complete refusal to even hold hearings for the final year of a presidential term.
The current democrat party are way further to the left than ever before something to  be considered

In what way?

I'll grant you that the gap between them and the GOP has increased dramatically, but it ain't the Dems who've shifted.

A Socialist has a really good chance of becoming the Dem nominee and you don't think the party has shifted to the left?

Except he hasn't

When all is said and done and this thing is done, he will have gotten almost as many actual votes as Hillary. Dem party won't (or at least wouldn't) release vote totals from Iowa because seemingingly Berne won more actual votes (per MSBNC)

It's only because of the super delegates his window s closing

And the superdelegates are the party establishment.

Until Dems start consistently electing people leaning as far left as Bernie, and engaging in the primary warfare that has purged the GOP of almost all its moderates in the last six years, you can't really claim that the party is shifting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 18, 2016, 03:18:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2016, 11:57:31 PM
The current democrat party are way further to the left than ever before something to  be considered

Not a bit of it. FDR would be denounced as a commie if he tried to run today. Ditto for Reagan (peace be upon his name). US politics has all shifted so far to the right that it's long overdue a leftward shunt, which we're starting to see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on March 18, 2016, 09:17:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 18, 2016, 12:39:37 AM
When all is said and done and this thing is done, he will have gotten almost as many actual votes as Hillary. Dem party won't (or at least wouldn't) release vote totals from Iowa because seemingingly Berne won more actual votes (per MSBNC)

It's only because of the super delegates his window s closing

I'm a big Bernie fan but i'm a little hazy on some aspects of how these primaries are put together.

The official Iowa results say Hillary got 49.9% - 701 votes translating into 23 delegates while Bernie got 49.6% - 697 votes translating into 21 delegates.

What am I missing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 18, 2016, 10:20:26 AM
This who Clinton should add to the ticket


POLITICS
GOP Congressman Says Elizabeth Warren Needs To Be 'Neutered'
Because she is the "Darth Vader of the financial services world."


A Republican congressman on the House Committee on Financial Services thinks Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), one of the most vocal advocates for Wall Street reform, needs to be "neutered."

Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer (R-Mo.) made the comments during a panel discussion at an American Bankers Association conference Wednesday. According to Politico, Luetkemeyer said people needed to "find a way to neuter" Warren, whom he called the "Darth Vader of the financial services world."

Rep. Ed Perlmutter (D-Colo.), who was also on the panel, criticized the comments, saying Warren "speaks for a lot of people," according to Politico.

"Senator Warren speaks for a lot of people who are frustrated and angry with the financial system. Regardless of politics or personalities, we must treat one another with civility and respect. Words matter – particularly in today's political climate," Perlmutter said in a follow-up statement. "And the words used yesterday by Representative Luetkemeyer do not help find solutions but only drive wedges."

Asked about the comments during an appearance on MSNBC's "All in with Chris Hayes," Wednesday evening, Warren was unfazed.

"Look, if Wall Street and their buddies in the Republican party want to launch an assault on financial regulations and they want to say 'let's roll back Dodd-Frank' all I can say is 'let's have that fight,'" she said. "I'm ready. You can make it with words or anything else you want, but I am not backing down."

Nita Chaudhary, co-founder of UltraViolet, an advocacy group working to expand women's rights, said the comments showed how GOP presidential front-runner Donald Trump's rhetoric had seeped into political discourse.

"Luetkemeyer should immediately apologize to Senator Warren for his offensive language," she said. "There is plenty of room for disagreement in Washington, but resorting to sexist name-calling should have no place in our political discourse."

Luetkemeyer's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Warren followed up on the comments in an email to supporters on Thursday with the subject line "I won't be neutered." The senator said she always identified more with Princess Leia.

"My first thought was Really? I've always seen myself more as a Princess Leia-type (as a senator and Resistance general who, unlike the guys, is never even remotely tempted by the dark side). Clearly the Force is not strong with Congressman Luetkemeyer (maybe he's a Trekkie)."

She went on to accuse the congressman of being beholden to financial interests, noting he's taken over $1 million in donations since 2008 from the financial services industry.

"Why would he go out of his way to say something so sexist and offensive? Is he hostile to all women? Clueless? Afraid? And then I had a second thought: This is all about money," she wrote. "Congressman Luetkemeyer was on a panel about the 'changing political landscape' in a room full of Wall Street bankers –powerful people who have been working for years to roll back financial reform. Trying to land the best zinger with my name is just one more way to earn chits and try to cash in big time with that audience."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 18, 2016, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 18, 2016, 09:17:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 18, 2016, 12:39:37 AM
When all is said and done and this thing is done, he will have gotten almost as many actual votes as Hillary. Dem party won't (or at least wouldn't) release vote totals from Iowa because seemingingly Berne won more actual votes (per MSBNC)

It's only because of the super delegates his window s closing

I'm a big Bernie fan but i'm a little hazy on some aspects of how these primaries are put together.


The official Iowa results say Hillary got 49.9% - 701 votes translating into 23 delegates while Bernie got 49.6% - 697 votes translating into 21 delegates.

What am I missing?


https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-Democratic-Party-only-release-State-Delegate-Equivalents-instead-of-total-votes-in-the-Iowa-caucus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 18, 2016, 12:53:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4

Like I said before, there is no reason for anti-trump protestors to attend his rallies. These anti-trump bullies are the ones inflaming the situation and should let democracy take its course even if they don't like his message.

If there was no popular support for Mr Trumps policies he wouldn't be winning all these states. Just shows the american public are sick of pandering to the PC brigade and are willing to be more vocal about it now.

Have you read the US Constitution?? First amendment means that liberals can protest Trump all they want!! Are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights just because they are liberal?

Liberals cannot protest inside a building he is renting you imbecile!

Why do you lads never take responsibility for anything, these c***ts that went in and disrupted his meeting should have been jailed, they broke the law but under this w**k stain bo anything goes.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 18, 2016, 05:28:48 PM
Quote from: stew on March 18, 2016, 12:53:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2016, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 15, 2016, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 12, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Disgusting scenes at the Trump rally in Chicago by the libtards.
The usual suspects out in force ready to disrupt and start riots at the first sign of something they disagree with.
The media did a good job stopping news of all the looting and gunfire after the rally, cos lets face it, not like them to miss an opportunity to do some free shopping!

The bright spot here is that the general american public will now wake up and see that if these types hate Trump so much then he must be doing something right.
The Kenyan lad has brought them to this point with his policies and pandering to sections of the community. It needs to stop.

Have a look at this and keep on blaming the liberals . . . Do Trump and his supporters not deserve their fair share of the blame??

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-maddow-explains-how-donald-trumps-rhetoric-has-ramped-up-violence-at-rallies-video_uk_56e69b0be4b05c52666ec8c4

Like I said before, there is no reason for anti-trump protestors to attend his rallies. These anti-trump bullies are the ones inflaming the situation and should let democracy take its course even if they don't like his message.

If there was no popular support for Mr Trumps policies he wouldn't be winning all these states. Just shows the american public are sick of pandering to the PC brigade and are willing to be more vocal about it now.

Have you read the US Constitution?? First amendment means that liberals can protest Trump all they want!! Are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights just because they are liberal?

Liberals cannot protest inside a building he is renting you imbecile!

Why do you lads never take responsibility for anything, these c***ts that went in and disrupted his meeting should have been jailed, they broke the law but under this w**k stain bo anything goes.

"w**kstain"??

WTF has Obama got to do with what happens at these rallies?  ;D :o

It is a matter for the local authories i.e. Chicago police (or university police, if they have the jurisdiction), Cook County DA etc. etc.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 18, 2016, 06:03:06 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0318/775685-economic-risk-eiu/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0318/775685-economic-risk-eiu/)

Trump presidency as risky as jihadist militancy to world economy - EIU study

The prospect of Donald Trump winning the US presidency represents a global threat on a par with jihadist militancy destabilising the world economy, according to British research group EIU.

In the latest version of its Global Risk assessment, the Economist Intelligence Unit ranked victory for the Republican front-runner at 12 on an index where the current top threat is a Chinese economic "hard landing" rated 20.

Justifying the threat level, the EIU highlighted the tycoon's alienation towards China as well as his comments on Islamist extremism, saying a proposal to stop Muslims from entering the United States would be a "potent recruitment tool for jihadi groups".

It also raised the spectre of a trade war under a Trump presidency and pointed out that his policies "tend to be prone to constant revision".

"He has been exceptionally hostile towards free trade, including notably NAFTA (the North American Free Trade Agreement), and has repeatedly labelled China as a 'currency manipulator'." it said.

"He has also taken an exceptionally right-wing stance on the Middle East and jiadhi terrorism, including, among other things, advocating the killing of families of terrorists and launching a land incursion into Syria to wipe out IS (and acquire its oil)."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 18, 2016, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 18, 2016, 05:28:48 PM

"w**kstain"??

WTF has Obama got to do with what happens at these rallies?  ;D :o

Funny that the first person you thought of was the Kenyan lad.  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 18, 2016, 07:23:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 18, 2016, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 18, 2016, 05:28:48 PM

"w**kstain"??

WTF has Obama got to do with what happens at these rallies?  ;D :o

Funny that the first person you thought of was the Kenyan lad.  ;D

Nah, read again... stew typed "...but under this w**k stain bo..."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on March 18, 2016, 09:26:29 PM
That country is in a mess but could Trump do any worse than start multiple wars, invade countries for oil, increase the gap between rich & poor etc?

Let him at it and see what he can do.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:23:58 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 17, 2016, 07:09:21 PM
Stew, Clinton is not my darling.  Look at the options. Trump, hell no!  Cruz, hell no!  Kasich, no chance and comes across as more kindly than he actually is.  Sanders, not a chance that he'd ever be able to enact his agenda.  So, that leaves Clinton.  Certainly not ideal, but a Democrat, and therefore more likely to be compassionate/empathetic.  Wish Elizabeth Warren had run.  But if Bernie gets the nomination, I'll vote for him.

It would nit matter to you if Jesus himself was running against Clinton or Bernie as a republican, you cannot see past your nose and because of your ties to your union you are all in with that tr**p Pillory, why not Kasich? He has done tremendous work in his home state and the best you can come up with is that he is not as kindly as he comes across? Sad really, do you not see the irony/hypocrisy in that spoke? You support Clinton ffs!

Keep blindly following the liberal agenda and see where gets you in the end, if they get in again, and they will, that useless bastard will drive the country into the ground.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 07:48:45 AM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.

Famed communist Rupert Murdoch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 19, 2016, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:23:58 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 17, 2016, 07:09:21 PM
Stew, Clinton is not my darling.  Look at the options. Trump, hell no!  Cruz, hell no!  Kasich, no chance and comes across as more kindly than he actually is.  Sanders, not a chance that he'd ever be able to enact his agenda.  So, that leaves Clinton.  Certainly not ideal, but a Democrat, and therefore more likely to be compassionate/empathetic.  Wish Elizabeth Warren had run.  But if Bernie gets the nomination, I'll vote for him.

It would nit matter to you if Jesus himself was running against Clinton or Bernie as a republican, you cannot see past your nose and because of your ties to your union you are all in with that tr**p Pillory, why not Kasich? He has done tremendous work in his home state and the best you can come up with is that he is not as kindly as he comes across? Sad really, do you not see the irony/hypocrisy in that spoke? You support Clinton ffs!

Keep blindly following the liberal agenda and see where gets you in the end, if they get in again, and they will, that useless b**tard will drive the country into the ground.

And here is where the differences start between Republican and Democrat. As a lifelong Democrat I will support a candidate based on their social perspective for individuals ie: health, wellness, safety of individuals (EPA, regulations on gun control etc) and regards for the country's financial and economic direction. I will not support a candidate who spouts off about them or this without a plan to improve the current situation or means to make this country great again without a plan. Second, I will not support a candidate who uses blanket statements condemning their opposition without facts. Right now as a Democrat my first choice would be Bernie followed by Kasich then Hillary. Cruz is a moron who will destroy the country from biased legislation and doctrine. Trump will destroy the moral standards and what is left of the world's respectability of the US. Hillary would be the equilvalent of a dynasty similar to W and H which I feel is wrong on all levels.

I see the left more willing to work with the right but not vice-versa and that is where the problem lies. Believe it or not there are many Democrats who believe in capitalism but feel vigilant about the government to take the social aspect of their citizens into consideration. At the last election I heard a "gentleman" say let them die when there was a question about someone not having health insurance. Is that a true reflection of Republican values? I hope not!!!

Let me hear one Republican that would support the other sides opponent then you can criticize.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 19, 2016, 08:52:30 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 07:48:45 AM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.

Famed communist Rupert Murdoch.


What about RupertbMurdoch and what has he got to do with anything? You on the sauce already?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 19, 2016, 09:00:24 AM
Quote
QuoteQuote from: gallsman on Today at 07:48:45 AM
QuoteQuote from: stew on Today at 07:12:33 AM
QuoteQuote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.

Famed communist Rupert Murdoch.

Ah I get it now, because he owns it that makes it a republican rag, got it!

It makes complete sense to own a paper and then hammer the party you supposedly support, yeah that sounds about right. ::) ::) ???

Of 175 publications owned by Murdock, 174 supported the Invasion of Iraq. He campaigned publicly in support of Bush and Blair on the issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/feb/17/mondaymediasection.iraq (http://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/feb/17/mondaymediasection.iraq)

His publications appear to mirror his thinking on major issues. But that doesn't mean he writes every article.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 09:07:10 AM
What's happening here? Stew deleting posts?

a) the Washington Post isn't owned by Murdoch, it's owned by another lad with a few spare quid who loves dodgy tax arrangements - Jeff Bezos of Amazon.

b) my snide comment was clearly directed at your claim that "the Democrats own the media"

Your ability to continually make an utter tit of yourself knows no bounds
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 19, 2016, 09:13:36 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 09:07:10 AM
What's happening here? Stew deleting posts?

a) the Washington Post isn't owned by Murdoch, it's owned by another lad with a few spare quid who loves dodgy tax arrangements - Jeff Bezos of Amazon.

b) my snide comment was clearly directed at your claim that "the Democrats own the media"

Your ability to continually make an utter tit of yourself knows no bounds


I know who owns it, he paid a quarter billion for it , you did nit know though, you went to wiki didn't you ya ballix!

I admit I did because I vaguely remember that being big news back when it sold as the same family had owned it for ages and I didn't remember Murdoch being involved.

You thought Murdoch owned it you ballbag, admit it! :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 10:21:53 AM
Yes, you now know who owns it, because I told you. You're welcome. As you've mentioned, it was quite big news, hence why I knew it. It's not all that difficult.

I'm confused, though. Say I hadn't known it, you appear to imply that somebody doing some research prior to posting (you should really try it some time) is behaving in some unscrupulous fashion. Not only are you bull headed and ignorant, you're actually proud of the fact ffs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 19, 2016, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 10:21:53 AM
Yes, you now know who owns it, because I told you. You're welcome. As you've mentioned, it was quite big news, hence why I knew it. It's not all that difficult.

I'm confused, though. Say I hadn't known it, you appear to imply that somebody doing some research prior to posting (you should really try it some time) is behaving in some unscrupulous fashion. Not only are you bull headed and ignorant, you're actually proud of the fact ffs.


You had no clue who owned it you sanctimonious git, you really are Jesus like, all knowing and never wrong, I decided after your post to check and see if he really did own it, I really should have known you were wrong, the fact you cannot admit you thought he owned it speaks volumes.

You  are a narcissist gallbladder and a liar to boot son, bringing up murdoch in any context other than the owner of that paper makes no sense at all, you sir are a lying maggot!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 19, 2016, 11:34:08 AM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.

What has any of that rant got to do with the signed opinion piece that seafoid posted?

Do you have any opinion to offer on or do you dispute any of their summary of the shift of the GOP to the right and their purging of any and all moderates?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 12:25:20 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 10:21:53 AM
Yes, you now know who owns it, because I told you. You're welcome. As you've mentioned, it was quite big news, hence why I knew it. It's not all that difficult.

I'm confused, though. Say I hadn't known it, you appear to imply that somebody doing some research prior to posting (you should really try it some time) is behaving in some unscrupulous fashion. Not only are you bull headed and ignorant, you're actually proud of the fact ffs.


You had no clue who owned it you sanctimonious git, you really are Jesus like, all knowing and never wrong, I decided after your post to check and see if he really did own it, I really should have known you were wrong, the fact you cannot admit you thought he owned it speaks volumes.

You  are a narcissist gallbladder and a liar to boot son, bringing up murdoch in any context other than the owner of that paper makes no sense at all, you sir are a lying maggot!

You're the one who said he owned it, not me. You then tried to cover it up by deleting the post you absolute f**king numpty!

You stated that the democrats own the media, I pointed out a major flaw (I'm being polite here, it was just a flat out lie) with that statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2016, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.
Stew Norm Ornstein is old style GOP. He is more of a real conservative than Cruz is. What the extremists have done to the GOP is shocking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 19, 2016, 01:18:03 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 12:25:20 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 19, 2016, 10:21:53 AM
Yes, you now know who owns it, because I told you. You're welcome. As you've mentioned, it was quite big news, hence why I knew it. It's not all that difficult.

I'm confused, though. Say I hadn't known it, you appear to imply that somebody doing some research prior to posting (you should really try it some time) is behaving in some unscrupulous fashion. Not only are you bull headed and ignorant, you're actually proud of the fact ffs.


You had no clue who owned it you sanctimonious git, you really are Jesus like, all knowing and never wrong, I decided after your post to check and see if he really did own it, I really should have known you were wrong, the fact you cannot admit you thought he owned it speaks volumes.

You  are a narcissist gallbladder and a liar to boot son, bringing up murdoch in any context other than the owner of that paper makes no sense at all, you sir are a lying maggot!

You're the one who said he owned it, not me. You then tried to cover it up by deleting the post you absolute f**king numpty!

You stated that the democrats own the media, I pointed out a major flaw (I'm being polite here, it was just a flat out lie) with that statement.


There was no hiding of anything you tube, I deleted when I decided I should actually check if indeed he actually did own it and he didn't, in fairness he does own a lot of newspapers so we can be excused for believing he owned the post as well.

If you are so thick you do not know that the liberals own the vast majority of the media outlets in the United States you are wrong, I will give you a hint, for example, one and only one TV station spoke about the looting in Chicago, care to guess which one?

I have lived in the states for twenty years, I have worked as an account manager for a TV station for four of those years, I have worked with liberals and most are fine with a few exceptions, you know nothing of what it is like to live under this idiots presidency, I know all about it, I know more about the media in the States than you will ever know bladder son.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 19, 2016, 01:22:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2016, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.
Stew Norm Ornstein is old style GOP. He is more of a real conservative than Cruz is. What the extremists have done to the GOP is shocking.

The same goes the other way hi, the twat in chief has driven the country's democratic party to the far left neither party is fit to govern hence the need for more options.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 19, 2016, 03:07:53 PM
Would "Sanders be a "Dave"  type of President?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 19, 2016, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 01:22:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2016, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.
Stew Norm Ornstein is old style GOP. He is more of a real conservative than Cruz is. What the extremists have done to the GOP is shocking.

The same goes the other way hi, the twat in chief has driven the country's democratic party to the far left neither party is fit to govern hence the need for more options.

What evidence is there that the Democrats have been driven to the "far left"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2016, 04:36:37 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 01:22:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2016, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.
Stew Norm Ornstein is old style GOP. He is more of a real conservative than Cruz is. What the extremists have done to the GOP is shocking.

The same goes the other way hi, the twat in chief has driven the country's democratic party to the far left neither party is fit to govern hence the need for more options.
Obamacare was originally a GOP plan but by the time it came up it was no longer acceptable to the party. All the RINO stuff happens in one party. The GOP is in a sad state.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 19, 2016, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2016, 04:36:37 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 01:22:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2016, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on March 19, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2016, 10:15:52 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

A liberal rag that has lost credibility as a source of news and unbiased reporting, the democrats own the media in the states and when I go back i won't buy a paper ever again, its time has come and gone, journalistic integrity is dead and buried.
Stew Norm Ornstein is old style GOP. He is more of a real conservative than Cruz is. What the extremists have done to the GOP is shocking.

The same goes the other way hi, the twat in chief has driven the country's democratic party to the far left neither party is fit to govern hence the need for more options.
Obamacare was originally a GOP plan but by the time it came up it was no longer acceptable to the party. All the RINO stuff happens in one party. The GOP is in a sad state.

A good plan it was too.

Its a shame they were forced to run away and hide from it for political reasons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2016, 06:41:26 PM
Norm Ornstein is worth watching on the GOP. He would probably be called a RINO by the likes of Cruz but he is a real conservative. They have mostly been hounded out of the party by the Koch taliban.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2016, 10:09:07 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/19/media/donald-trump-megyn-kelly-tweets-fox/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on March 19, 2016, 10:40:58 PM
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

Hillary advocated stoking the flames of war in Syria for the benefit of Israel. Just in case you had any doubts about what we all assumed happened.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 19, 2016, 11:40:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 17, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Would you shut the fcuk up about the Kochs. You sound like Jim f**king Corr.
Last time they spent 412m trying to beat Obama. The money buys climate change deniers like Rubio in DC. They are worse than scum and people like them have destroyed the GOP. The party just lost its base. Both parties are riddled with corruption but the GOP is further advanced into obsolescence.
george soros a big democrat backer and a much more dangerous guy than the Kochs.
Have a look to see some of the loons he pumps money into .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2016, 11:55:15 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2016, 11:40:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 17, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Would you shut the fcuk up about the Kochs. You sound like Jim f**king Corr.
Last time they spent 412m trying to beat Obama. The money buys climate change deniers like Rubio in DC. They are worse than scum and people like them have destroyed the GOP. The party just lost its base. Both parties are riddled with corruption but the GOP is further advanced into obsolescence.
george soros a big democrat backer and a much more dangerous guy than the Kochs.
Have a look to see some of the loons he pumps money into .

How is he more dangerous?

What "loons"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.

LOL....if they were Irish illegals I would be saying exactly the same thing, so you can put the race card back in your pocket

No drivers licenses and no insurance either I'm sure

If members of the golf club tried that they'd be facing the full rigour of the law and a lengthy jail spell

Illegals....catch and release....no consequences. Tax payers pick up the tab
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets)


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.

LOL....if they were Irish illegals I would be saying exactly the same thing, so you can put the race card back in your pocket
Of course you you would.

Quote
No drivers licenses and no insurance either I'm sure
See what I'm talking about. As a matter of interested, how sure are you and how are you sure? And, of course, we're sick of reading your posts here about Irish illegals without drivers' licenses and insurance.

QuoteIf members of the golf club tried that they'd be facing the full rigour of the law and a lengthy jail spell
No. The point is that if a golf club member was arrested, released and went on to rape somebody, you wouldn't be posting it here as a reason why Trump is your hero.

Quote
Illegals....catch and release....no consequences. Tax payers pick up the tab
Hang them all, dammit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:44:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets)


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.

LOL....if they were Irish illegals I would be saying exactly the same thing, so you can put the race card back in your pocket
Of course you you would.

Quote
No drivers licenses and no insurance either I'm sure
See what I'm talking about. As a matter of interested, how sure are you and how are you sure? And, of course, we're sick of reading your posts here about Irish illegals without drivers' licenses and insurance.

QuoteIf members of the golf club tried that they'd be facing the full rigour of the law and a lengthy jail spell
No. The point is that if a golf club member was arrested, released and went on to rape somebody, you wouldn't be posting it here as a reason why Trump is your hero.

Quote
Illegals....catch and release....no consequences. Tax payers pick up the tab
Hang them all, dammit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2016, 01:44:36 PM
Last time out Romney canvassed for tax cuts for the 1%. Muintir Trump are not interested. The GOP elite have sworn loyalty to the Kochs and Adelson.  So they want tax cuts for the 1%. Meanwhile Zionists are super worried. Trump has already made antisemitic statements but has been invited to the AIPAC conference cos he may be Prez.  Jewish right wing money goes with Adelson. Bibi bet big on the GOP.  It is getting very interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets)


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.

LOL....if they were Irish illegals I would be saying exactly the same thing, so you can put the race card back in your pocket
Of course you you would.

Quote
No drivers licenses and no insurance either I'm sure
See what I'm talking about. As a matter of interested, how sure are you and how are you sure? And, of course, we're sick of reading your posts here about Irish illegals without drivers' licenses and insurance.

QuoteIf members of the golf club tried that they'd be facing the full rigour of the law and a lengthy jail spell
No. The point is that if a golf club member was arrested, released and went on to rape somebody, you wouldn't be posting it here as a reason why Trump is your hero.

Quote
Illegals....catch and release....no consequences. Tax payers pick up the tab
Hang them all, dammit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2016, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets)


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.

LOL....if they were Irish illegals I would be saying exactly the same thing, so you can put the race card back in your pocket
Of course you you would.

Quote
No drivers licenses and no insurance either I'm sure
See what I'm talking about. As a matter of interested, how sure are you and how are you sure? And, of course, we're sick of reading your posts here about Irish illegals without drivers' licenses and insurance.

QuoteIf members of the golf club tried that they'd be facing the full rigour of the law and a lengthy jail spell
No. The point is that if a golf club member was arrested, released and went on to rape somebody, you wouldn't be posting it here as a reason why Trump is your hero.

Quote
Illegals....catch and release....no consequences. Tax payers pick up the tab
Hang them all, dammit.

Illegals do not qualify for MA licenses, so if they had licenses they were either forgeries or obtained illegally

Tourists on a valid visa/waiver can drive for 3 months on a valid foreign license-they entered the county illegaly so that would invalidate any foreign license they may have had.

no license.....no insurance, it's really quite simple.

If some one from from the golf club was arrested for multiple DUI, no license, no insurance and multiple violations of immigration law  they would be sent straight to jail-no ifs and and buts.

But if your illegal in a sanctuary city, cops have no option but to let you go.

There have been multiple vehicular homicides in MA over the past few years involving illegals who had previously been released after having being caught for DUI. This is one example:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/08/23/driver_charged_in_dragging_death_of_milford_man/?page=2



If you're  illegal, keep your head down and don't come to the notice of the police...it's really quite simple

I'm  actually in favor of legalizing ALL non criminal illegals,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on March 20, 2016, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets)


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.

LOL....if they were Irish illegals I would be saying exactly the same thing, so you can put the race card back in your pocket
Of course you you would.

Quote
No drivers licenses and no insurance either I'm sure
See what I'm talking about. As a matter of interested, how sure are you and how are you sure? And, of course, we're sick of reading your posts here about Irish illegals without drivers' licenses and insurance.

QuoteIf members of the golf club tried that they'd be facing the full rigour of the law and a lengthy jail spell
No. The point is that if a golf club member was arrested, released and went on to rape somebody, you wouldn't be posting it here as a reason why Trump is your hero.

Quote
Illegals....catch and release....no consequences. Tax payers pick up the tab
Hang them all, dammit.

Whitey, when you moved to U.S, how was it legal for you to stay here? Were you a U.S citizen at the time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2016, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on March 20, 2016, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets)


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.

LOL....if they were Irish illegals I would be saying exactly the same thing, so you can put the race card back in your pocket
Of course you you would.

Quote
No drivers licenses and no insurance either I'm sure
See what I'm talking about. As a matter of interested, how sure are you and how are you sure? And, of course, we're sick of reading your posts here about Irish illegals without drivers' licenses and insurance.

QuoteIf members of the golf club tried that they'd be facing the full rigour of the law and a lengthy jail spell
No. The point is that if a golf club member was arrested, released and went on to rape somebody, you wouldn't be posting it here as a reason why Trump is your hero.

Quote
Illegals....catch and release....no consequences. Tax payers pick up the tab
Hang them all, dammit.

Whitey, when you moved to U.S, how was it legal for you to stay here? Were you a U.S citizen at the time?

Green card
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on March 20, 2016, 02:27:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on March 20, 2016, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets)


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.

LOL....if they were Irish illegals I would be saying exactly the same thing, so you can put the race card back in your pocket
Of course you you would.

Quote
No drivers licenses and no insurance either I'm sure
See what I'm talking about. As a matter of interested, how sure are you and how are you sure? And, of course, we're sick of reading your posts here about Irish illegals without drivers' licenses and insurance.

QuoteIf members of the golf club tried that they'd be facing the full rigour of the law and a lengthy jail spell
No. The point is that if a golf club member was arrested, released and went on to rape somebody, you wouldn't be posting it here as a reason why Trump is your hero.

Quote
Illegals....catch and release....no consequences. Tax payers pick up the tab
Hang them all, dammit.

Whitey, when you moved to U.S, how was it legal for you to stay here? Were you a U.S citizen at the time?

Green card
Morrison visa?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2016, 03:53:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well, this case would be a good example

(For the record, so far it hasn't been reported in the liberal Boston Globe or at least I haven't seen it)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_had_rap_sheets)


In case anyone is wondering why Trump is doing so well among the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic, this post would be a good example.

In case anyone is wondering why this post is a good example of how the uneducated, illiterate, intolerant and xenophobic are manipulated by the hateful rhetoric of people like Trump, it's worth reflecting that one in four people arrested for drunken driving may also be members of golf clubs.

LOL....if they were Irish illegals I would be saying exactly the same thing, so you can put the race card back in your pocket
Of course you you would.

Quote
No drivers licenses and no insurance either I'm sure
See what I'm talking about. As a matter of interested, how sure are you and how are you sure? And, of course, we're sick of reading your posts here about Irish illegals without drivers' licenses and insurance.

QuoteIf members of the golf club tried that they'd be facing the full rigour of the law and a lengthy jail spell
No. The point is that if a golf club member was arrested, released and went on to rape somebody, you wouldn't be posting it here as a reason why Trump is your hero.

Quote
Illegals....catch and release....no consequences. Tax payers pick up the tab
Hang them all, dammit.

Illegals do not qualify for MA licenses, so if they had licenses they were either forgeries or obtained illegally

Tourists on a valid visa/waiver can drive for 3 months on a valid foreign license-they entered the county illegaly so that would invalidate any foreign license they may have had.

no license.....no insurance, it's really quite simple.

If some one from from the golf club was arrested for multiple DUI, no license, no insurance and multiple violations of immigration law  they would be sent straight to jail-no ifs and and buts.

But if your illegal in a sanctuary city, cops have no option but to let you go.

There have been multiple vehicular homicides in MA over the past few years involving illegals who had previously been released after having being caught for DUI. This is one example:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/08/23/driver_charged_in_dragging_death_of_milford_man/?page=2



If you're  illegal, keep your head down and don't come to the notice of the police...it's really quite simple

I'm  actually in favor of legalizing ALL non criminal illegals,

Why would the illegal immigrant from the golf club be treated differently than the illegal immigrant living with ten others in some small apartment?

The sanctuary city issue has drawbacks, like any policy, but what do you propose as an alternative?

The reason some places have brought it in is so that people can go to and talk to the police when necessary without fear of being deported. For every one that progresses to some more extreme crime, how many have reported crime to police or actually cooperated with and assisted police because they were not afraid of their illegal status being discovered?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
I believe illegals who are law abiding (or who commit minor infractions) should be let go about their business in their interactions with the police.

I believe illegals should be allowed get drivers licenses.....they would at least know how to drive and be insured at the same time.

I believe that illegals who are already here and who have not committed any serious crime should be allowed to stay.

I believe that illegals who are involved in drugs, property crime, violence and drunk driving should be deported.

What happens is that ideas that start off as great and compassionate can often have unintended consequences:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/mayor-adult-illegal-aliens-graying-hair-enrolled-public-schools

I'd love to see some of the über liberals in the wealthy Boston suburbs allow their kids go to school with grown men. Unfortunately it's the poorer neighborhoods who bear the brunt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2016, 06:15:05 PM
The elites tolerated all the illegal immigration cos it drove wages down and gave them more profit. A lot of the uneducated whites who vote Trump are not looking forward to the white minority. The US is looking at huge change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 20, 2016, 09:07:46 PM
It looks as if the very drawn out nature of the republican nomination may turn out to be a fraction too long for the Donald.

The GOP hierarchy is starting to come together against Trump but is it too little too late.

This article is by a guy called Peter Wehner, served in the last 3 republican administrations and now at the "ethics and public policy center" which is a very conservative pressure /lobbying group ("think tank") in all places the New York Times, not a traditional publisher of EPPC material.


Quote"I THINK you'd have riots." So said Donald J. Trump last week, when he was asked by CNN what he thought would happen if he arrived at the Republican Convention this summer a few delegates short of the 1,237 needed to win outright and didn't set forth from Cleveland as the party's nominee.

It is stunning to contemplate, particularly for those of us who are lifelong Republicans, but we now live in a time when the organizing principle that runs through the campaign of the Republican Party's likely nominee isn't adherence to a political philosophy — Mr. Trump has no discernible political philosophy — but an encouragement to political violence.

Mr. Trump's supporters will dismiss this as hyperbole, but it is the only reasonable conclusion that his vivid, undisguised words allow for. As the examples pile up, we should not become inured to them. "I'd like to punch him in the face," Mr. Trump said about a protester in Nevada. ("In the old days," Mr. Trump fondly recalled, protesters would be "carried out in a stretcher.")

Of another protester, Mr. Trump said, "Maybe he should have been roughed up." In St. Louis, Mr. Trump sounded almost wistful: "Nobody wants to hurt each other anymore." About protesters in general, he said: "There used to be consequences. There are none anymore. These people are so bad for our country. You have no idea folks, you have no idea."

Talk like this eventually finds its way into action. And so on March 10, a Trump supporter named John McGraw, was charged with assault, battery and disorderly conduct, after a protester was sucker-punched as he was being hauled by security guards out of a Trump rally in North Carolina the day before. When interviewed afterward Mr. McGraw said, "The next time we see him, we might have to kill him."

And Donald Trump's reaction? He said he was considering paying Mr. McGraw's legal fees. "He obviously loves his country," Mr. Trump added, "and maybe he doesn't like seeing what's happening to the country."

Welcome to Donald Trump's America.

Mr. Trump's comments, startling in a leading presidential candidate, have raised widespread concern about the path we find ourselves on. But concern about political violence, mob rule and unchecked passion is hardly new in American history.

In 1838, as a 28-year-old state legislator, Abraham Lincoln delivered an address at the Young Men's Lyceum of Springfield, Ill. The speech was given in the aftermath of the lynching of a mixed-race boatman and the burning of a black abolitionist newspaper editor. Lincoln warned that a "mobocratic spirit" and "wild and furious passions" posed a threat to republican institutions. He also alerted people to the danger of individuals — "an Alexander, a Caesar or a Napoleon?" — who, in their search for glory and power, might pose a threat to American self-government.

"Is it unreasonable, then, to expect that some man possessed of the loftiest genius, coupled with ambition sufficient to push it to its utmost stretch, will at some time spring up among us?" Lincoln asked.

The antidote to this threat, Lincoln argued, was to cultivate a "political religion" that emphasized "reverence for the laws." Passion was our enemy, he warned; it had to be contained. "Reason — cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason — must furnish all the materials for our future support and defense."

Lincoln was a keen student and great interpreter of the founders, and of course the founders also thought deeply about how a self-governing people could restrain political passions. In his book "Madison's Metronome," the scholar Greg Weiner points out that James Madison's lifelong concern was that majorities would be governed by emotion rather than reason, the "cool" faculty. In Mr. Weiner's words, Madison "portrayed passion through metaphors that suggested rapid and uncontrolled spread, including those of fires, fevers, pestilence and contagions."

Before the Constitutional Convention, Madison undertook an extraordinarily thorough study of various forms of government. How might the Constitution protect us from what Aristotle called "the insolence of demagogues"?

Among the defects of ancient and modern republics, Madison wrote, were "popular assemblages, so quickly formed, so susceptible of contagious passions, so exposed to the misguidance of eloquent and ambitious leaders, and so apt to be tempted by the facility of forming interested majorities, into measures unjust and oppressive to the minor parties."


Which brings us back to Donald Trump. No one would mistake Mr. Trump for eloquent, but he is a highly effective communicator in a political culture that is now almost indistinguishable from the reality TV culture from which he emerged. But the Trump phenomenon isn't just about coarsening and stupidity: His political practices are precisely what the founders feared and Lincoln warned against.

When he was asked by CNN's Jake Tapper about the sucker-punching episode, Mr. Trump responded by saying, "People come with tremendous passion and love for this country, and when they see protest — in some cases — you know, you're mentioning one case, which I haven't seen, I heard about it, which I don't like. But when they see what's going on in this country, they have anger that's unbelievable. They have anger. They love this country." In many respects, he added, "it's a beautiful thing."

This is an increasingly familiar refrain. When two brothers beat up a homeless Latino man last summer and cited Mr. Trump's words as their justification — "Donald Trump was right, all these illegals need to be deported," one of the men reportedly told the police — Mr. Trump responded by saying that while this was a shame, "I will say that people who are following me are very passionate." His supporters, he said, "love this country and they want this country to be great again — they are passionate."

Note Mr. Trump's linkage of violence, passion, anger and love of country. After the sucker-punch, Mr. Trump, while himself protesting that he doesn't condone violence, initially indicated that he might subsidize it. He said that he hoped that he hadn't done anything to create a tone where violence was encouraged, even though he does just that. Last week, his campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, was accused of manhandling a reporter and then sought to discredit her on Twitter and elsewhere. Mr. Trump went out of his way to praise Mr. Lewandowski during his victory speech in Florida.

For Mr. Trump, this is all of a piece. His entire campaign, from its very first moments, has been built on stoking anger, grievances and resentment against people of other races, religions and nationalities. Mexicans coming to America are rapists and drug dealers. Muslims hate America and need to be barred from it. Syrian refugees are "Trojan horses."

Not surprisingly, Mr. Trump's politics of hate is now metastasizing into violence. He incites people — not all people to be sure, but enough. On social media in particular, one sees how he gives his supporters permission to express dark and ugly sentiments that existed before but were generally kept hidden from view.

Max Boot, a Republican Trump critic who was a foreign policy adviser to Marco Rubio's campaign, says that he has never experienced as much anti-Semitism as he has since the start of the Trump campaign. There are no filters anymore, no restraints, no cultural guardrails. Now, under the sway of Trumpism, what was once considered shameful asserts itself openly. As we contemplate this, it is worth recalling that the membrane separating what the Scottish novelist John Buchan called "the graces of civilization" from "the rawness of barbarism" is thinner and more fragile than we sometimes imagine.

The reasons for the rise of Mr. Trump are undoubtedly complicated and will be studied for decades to come. That Mr. Trump's rise has occurred in the Republican Party is painful for those of us who are Republicans. That more and more Republicans are making their own accommodation with or offering outright support for Mr. Trump — governors like Chris Christie and Rick Scott, the former candidate Ben Carson and the former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich — makes things even worse. Because we can no longer deny what Mr. Trump is and what he represents. The prospect of turning the party apparatus over to such a person is sickening.

The founders, knowing history and human nature, took great care to devise a system that would prevent demagogues and those with authoritarian tendencies from rising up in America. That system has been extraordinarily successful. We have never before faced the prospect of a political strongman becoming president.

Until now.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 20, 2016, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
I believe illegals who are law abiding (or who commit minor infractions) should be let go about their business in their interactions with the police.

I believe illegals should be allowed get drivers licenses.....they would at least know how to drive and be insured at the same time.

I believe that illegals who are already here and who have not committed any serious crime should be allowed to stay.

I believe that illegals who are involved in drugs, property crime, violence and drunk driving should be deported.

What happens is that ideas that start off as great and compassionate can often have unintended consequences:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/mayor-adult-illegal-aliens-graying-hair-enrolled-public-schools

I'd love to see some of the über liberals in the wealthy Boston suburbs allow their kids go to school with grown men. Unfortunately it's the poorer neighborhoods who bear the brunt

Whitey I agree with most of your points in this post, but can't see how it leads you to vote GOP.

As for older people at school, surely there are bigger problems. If as you said earlier they were committing crimes, then get rid. But if they are law abiding and seeking education, then what harm?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 21, 2016, 01:08:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 20, 2016, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
I believe illegals who are law abiding (or who commit minor infractions) should be let go about their business in their interactions with the police.

I believe illegals should be allowed get drivers licenses.....they would at least know how to drive and be insured at the same time.

I believe that illegals who are already here and who have not committed any serious crime should be allowed to stay.

I believe that illegals who are involved in drugs, property crime, violence and drunk driving should be deported.

What happens is that ideas that start off as great and compassionate can often have unintended consequences:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/mayor-adult-illegal-aliens-graying-hair-enrolled-public-schools

I'd love to see some of the über liberals in the wealthy Boston suburbs allow their kids go to school with grown men. Unfortunately it's the poorer neighborhoods who bear the brunt

Whitey I agree with most of your points in this post, but can't see how it leads you to vote GOP.

As for older people at school, surely there are bigger problems. If as you said earlier they were committing crimes, then get rid. But if they are law abiding and seeking education, then what harm?

I'm a registered Independent who leans Republicsn

The problem with older people registering as students is that the schools actually have no idea who is enrolling.  They could be violent felons or sex offenders for all we know. The unintended consequence of the way the law is written is the school cannot ask for proof of age or identification. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell want to know who is going into a school my kids are attending.

In the US, local property taxes are what funds the schools, so the taxpayers/property owners have both a right and a vested interest in ensuring that extra people who don't belong there are not enrolled....it takes resources from those who really need them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 03:34:39 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 20, 2016, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
I believe illegals who are law abiding (or who commit minor infractions) should be let go about their business in their interactions with the police.

I believe illegals should be allowed get drivers licenses.....they would at least know how to drive and be insured at the same time.

I believe that illegals who are already here and who have not committed any serious crime should be allowed to stay.

I believe that illegals who are involved in drugs, property crime, violence and drunk driving should be deported.

What happens is that ideas that start off as great and compassionate can often have unintended consequences:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/mayor-adult-illegal-aliens-graying-hair-enrolled-public-schools

I'd love to see some of the über liberals in the wealthy Boston suburbs allow their kids go to school with grown men. Unfortunately it's the poorer neighborhoods who bear the brunt

Whitey I agree with most of your points in this post, but can't see how it leads you to vote GOP.

As for older people at school, surely there are bigger problems. If as you said earlier they were committing crimes, then get rid. But if they are law abiding and seeking education, then what harm?
Whitey could be a FG voter in Ireland, muppet. Maybe his local GOP rep is decent and what goes on in DC is far away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 03:40:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2016, 11:55:15 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2016, 11:40:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 17, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Would you shut the fcuk up about the Kochs. You sound like Jim f**king Corr.
Last time they spent 412m trying to beat Obama. The money buys climate change deniers like Rubio in DC. They are worse than scum and people like them have destroyed the GOP. The party just lost its base. Both parties are riddled with corruption but the GOP is further advanced into obsolescence.
george soros a big democrat backer and a much more dangerous guy than the Kochs.
Have a look to see some of the loons he pumps money into .

How is he more dangerous?

What "loons"?
A man who thrives on chaos go educate yourself on him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2016, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 03:40:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2016, 11:55:15 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2016, 11:40:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2016, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 17, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Would you shut the fcuk up about the Kochs. You sound like Jim f**king Corr.
Last time they spent 412m trying to beat Obama. The money buys climate change deniers like Rubio in DC. They are worse than scum and people like them have destroyed the GOP. The party just lost its base. Both parties are riddled with corruption but the GOP is further advanced into obsolescence.
george soros a big democrat backer and a much more dangerous guy than the Kochs.
Have a look to see some of the loons he pumps money into .

How is he more dangerous?

What "loons"?
A man who thrives on chaos go educate yourself on him


I know who Soros is.

I'm asking why you claim he is "much more dangerous" than the Kochs and who these "loons" are that he funds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2016, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2016, 01:08:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 20, 2016, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
I believe illegals who are law abiding (or who commit minor infractions) should be let go about their business in their interactions with the police.

I believe illegals should be allowed get drivers licenses.....they would at least know how to drive and be insured at the same time.

I believe that illegals who are already here and who have not committed any serious crime should be allowed to stay.

I believe that illegals who are involved in drugs, property crime, violence and drunk driving should be deported.

What happens is that ideas that start off as great and compassionate can often have unintended consequences:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/mayor-adult-illegal-aliens-graying-hair-enrolled-public-schools

I'd love to see some of the über liberals in the wealthy Boston suburbs allow their kids go to school with grown men. Unfortunately it's the poorer neighborhoods who bear the brunt

Whitey I agree with most of your points in this post, but can't see how it leads you to vote GOP.

As for older people at school, surely there are bigger problems. If as you said earlier they were committing crimes, then get rid. But if they are law abiding and seeking education, then what harm?

I'm a registered Independent who leans Republicsn

The problem with older people registering as students is that the schools actually have no idea who is enrolling.  They could be violent felons or sex offenders for all we know. The unintended consequence of the way the law is written is the school cannot ask for proof of age or identification. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell want to know who is going into a school my kids are attending.

In the US, local property taxes are what funds the schools, so the taxpayers/property owners have both a right and a vested interest in ensuring that extra people who don't belong there are not enrolled....it takes resources from those who really need them.

I've no problem with most of what you've said in these posts, but you don't seem to be against the principle of sanctuary cities, just some of the details in how it is implemented.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 01:21:44 PM
Whatever happens Sanders and Trumps the movements they started are here the stay. US politics and the 2 party system are never going to be the same
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 01:46:34 PM
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/03/17/what-we-now-know-2016-presidential-election/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 21, 2016, 03:15:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2016, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2016, 01:08:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 20, 2016, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
I believe illegals who are law abiding (or who commit minor infractions) should be let go about their business in their interactions with the police.

I believe illegals should be allowed get drivers licenses.....they would at least know how to drive and be insured at the same time.

I believe that illegals who are already here and who have not committed any serious crime should be allowed to stay.

I believe that illegals who are involved in drugs, property crime, violence and drunk driving should be deported.

What happens is that ideas that start off as great and compassionate can often have unintended consequences:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/mayor-adult-illegal-aliens-graying-hair-enrolled-public-schools

I'd love to see some of the über liberals in the wealthy Boston suburbs allow their kids go to school with grown men. Unfortunately it's the poorer neighborhoods who bear the brunt

Whitey I agree with most of your points in this post, but can't see how it leads you to vote GOP.

As for older people at school, surely there are bigger problems. If as you said earlier they were committing crimes, then get rid. But if they are law abiding and seeking education, then what harm?

I'm a registered Independent who leans Republicsn

The problem with older people registering as students is that the schools actually have no idea who is enrolling.  They could be violent felons or sex offenders for all we know. The unintended consequence of the way the law is written is the school cannot ask for proof of age or identification. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell want to know who is going into a school my kids are attending.

In the US, local property taxes are what funds the schools, so the taxpayers/property owners have both a right and a vested interest in ensuring that extra people who don't belong there are not enrolled....it takes resources from those who really need them.

I've no problem with most of what you've said in these posts, but you don't seem to be against the principle of sanctuary cities, just some of the details in how it is implemented.

The premise of a sanctuary city is fundamentally sound, but the unintended consequence is that violent and dangerous offenders are released back into the community to commit further crime.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33432197


Lets put the 15 M people who are already here illegally throough some type of naturalization process.  Everyone who is here, either legally or illegally needs to be set up to succeed and take advantage of all themopportunities this country has to offer

Where we probably will disagree is that while this process takes place, the southern border does need to be sealed.  You have to have some control over who comes and goes. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on March 21, 2016, 03:44:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 01:21:44 PM
Whatever happens Sanders and Trumps the movements they started are here the stay. US politics and the 2 party system are never going to be the same

But are there any more Sanders figures out there in US politics? At first glance I would have thought socialism and a community outlook is long dead over there. The relative success of Bernie's campaign would say otherwise - despite the media message - but he's too old to go again. Are there other champions to pick up the mantel?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2016, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2016, 03:15:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2016, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2016, 01:08:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 20, 2016, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
I believe illegals who are law abiding (or who commit minor infractions) should be let go about their business in their interactions with the police.

I believe illegals should be allowed get drivers licenses.....they would at least know how to drive and be insured at the same time.

I believe that illegals who are already here and who have not committed any serious crime should be allowed to stay.

I believe that illegals who are involved in drugs, property crime, violence and drunk driving should be deported.

What happens is that ideas that start off as great and compassionate can often have unintended consequences:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/mayor-adult-illegal-aliens-graying-hair-enrolled-public-schools

I'd love to see some of the über liberals in the wealthy Boston suburbs allow their kids go to school with grown men. Unfortunately it's the poorer neighborhoods who bear the brunt

Whitey I agree with most of your points in this post, but can't see how it leads you to vote GOP.

As for older people at school, surely there are bigger problems. If as you said earlier they were committing crimes, then get rid. But if they are law abiding and seeking education, then what harm?

I'm a registered Independent who leans Republicsn

The problem with older people registering as students is that the schools actually have no idea who is enrolling.  They could be violent felons or sex offenders for all we know. The unintended consequence of the way the law is written is the school cannot ask for proof of age or identification. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell want to know who is going into a school my kids are attending.

In the US, local property taxes are what funds the schools, so the taxpayers/property owners have both a right and a vested interest in ensuring that extra people who don't belong there are not enrolled....it takes resources from those who really need them.

I've no problem with most of what you've said in these posts, but you don't seem to be against the principle of sanctuary cities, just some of the details in how it is implemented.

The premise of a sanctuary city is fundamentally sound, but the unintended consequence is that violent and dangerous offenders are released back into the community to commit further crime.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33432197


Lets put the 15 M people who are already here illegally throough some type of naturalization process.  Everyone who is here, either legally or illegally needs to be set up to succeed and take advantage of all themopportunities this country has to offer

Where we probably will disagree is that while this process takes place, the southern border does need to be sealed.  You have to have some control over who comes and goes.

Got no problem with that either. Getting the necessary manpower and technology to patrol the border might mean an expansion of federal government though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 06:24:00 PM
See Obamas over getting some tips from his heroes the Castro brothers today.
Won't meet the Israeli pm but will fly to Cuba to meet these ,guys does anyone else think this is unreal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on March 21, 2016, 06:34:38 PM

Are Cuba war mongerers or have they committed many crimes against humanity?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 21, 2016, 06:40:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 06:24:00 PM
See Obamas over getting some tips from his heroes the Castro brothers today.
Won't meet the Israeli pm but will fly to Cuba to meet these ,guys does anyone else think this is unreal.

Do you mean that it's unreal that a President of the US has the foresight to do both? absolutely, seems perfectly reasonable, smart even.

If you mean that it is unreal that the President of the USA is meeting the president of a neighboring country that it is re-establishing valuable trade and political links with the US? well, that seems perfectly reasonable- smart even.

That he is also not meeting the PM of a country that is arguing about the details of the 10 year multibillion defense aid agreement it is receiving from the US, and also interfered with the US international relationships and domestic security policy to try and collapse the US led international nuclear treaty with Iran? again, that seems perfectly reasonable- smart even

The fact that its because that PM declined to travel to the US to accept the President's invite for bilateral talks (but falsely blamed it on the president's schedule)- well that seems a bit daft of the PM of that small country roughly the size of half of ulster. And maybe unreal that the President would ask twice. After all he's not seeking re-election and can maybe use that fact on behalf of the US in those talks.

Glad to see you share your delight in such a public way...
Unreal indeed!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 06:45:40 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 21, 2016, 06:34:38 PM

Are Cuba war mongerers or have they committed many crimes against humanity?
Mostly On their own people and some in Angola and Ethiopia .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 21, 2016, 07:02:01 PM
The Israel lovers are something else ::)
The whole world is out of step with them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 21, 2016, 07:14:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 06:24:00 PM
Won't meet the Israeli pm but will fly to Cuba to meet these ,guys does anyone else think this is unreal.

Sure

https://www.google.com/search?q=obama+netanyahu&num=100&tbm=isch
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 21, 2016, 07:02:01 PM
The Israel lovers are something else ::)
The whole world is out of step with them.
Netanyahu  is a grade A arsehole.  He went behind Obama 's back to speak to congress in 2011 and the GOP gave him 29 ovations. He bet the house on the GOP and now it has no voters. Now AIPAC has to invite Trump to its conference even though he has made antisemitic  statements. You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 21, 2016, 07:36:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 21, 2016, 07:02:01 PM
The Israel lovers are something else ::)
The whole world is out of step with them.
Netanyahu  is a grade A arsehole.  He went behind Obama 's back to speak to congress in 2011 and the GOP gave him 29 ovations. He bet the house on the GOP and now it has no voters. Now AIPAC has to invite Trump to its conference even though he has made antisemitic  statements. You couldn't make it up.

What anti Semitic comments did he make?

(http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/262063-anti-defamation-league-defends-trumps-speech-to-jewish   )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 07:52:01 PM
Obama got pissed with Netanyahu after he gave him a lecture in the Oval Office in front of the cameras and showed up Obama for the novice he was/is . He didn't want to meet him any more after that incident. What concessions have the Castro brothers made ? Released any political prisoners or any gestures at all. The president of the USA getting pictured with che Guevara in the background is not a good idea , he's not Gerry Adams  . The socialist mask is slipping because he has nothing to lose now .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 07:56:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2016, 07:36:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 21, 2016, 07:02:01 PM
The Israel lovers are something else ::)
The whole world is out of step with them.
Netanyahu  is a grade A arsehole.  He went behind Obama 's back to speak to congress in 2011 and the GOP gave him 29 ovations. He bet the house on the GOP and now it has no voters. Now AIPAC has to invite Trump to its conference even though he has made antisemitic  statements. You couldn't make it up.

What anti Semitic comments did he make?

(http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/262063-anti-defamation-league-defends-trumps-speech-to-jewish   )
Haaretz mentioned it but didnt give details. He is a demagogue who uses violence and hatred to generate momentum so presumably if it suited him he could turn on the jews.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 08:12:34 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 21, 2016, 03:44:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 01:21:44 PM
Whatever happens Sanders and Trumps the movements they started are here the stay. US politics and the 2 party system are never going to be the same

But are there any more Sanders figures out there in US politics? At first glance I would have thought socialism and a community outlook is long dead over there. The relative success of Bernie's campaign would say otherwise - despite the media message - but he's too old to go again. Are there other champions to pick up the mantel?
Loads of young people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 21, 2016, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 07:52:01 PM
Obama got pissed with Netanyahu after he gave him a lecture in the Oval Office in front of the cameras and showed up Obama for the novice he was/is . He didn't want to meet him any more after that incident. What concessions have the Castro brothers made ? Released any political prisoners or any gestures at all. The president of the USA getting pictured with che Guevara in the background is not a good idea , he's not Gerry Adams  . The socialist mask is slipping because he has nothing to lose now .

Ah I see, I missed all the subtle nuances of the realpolitik. Thanks for the education.
Also, thanks for saying that Che Guevara is not Gerry Adams. I'm sure I'm one of the many who thought they were the same person. I'm also curious about these socialist masks- I can't seem to find them on Amazon- where else can you get them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 08:30:23 PM
Read this

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432876/donald-trump-white-working-class-dysfunction-real-opportunity-needed-not-trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 12:30:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 06:24:00 PM
See Obamas over getting some tips from his heroes the Castro brothers today.
Won't meet the Israeli pm but will fly to Cuba to meet these ,guys does anyone else think this is unreal.

Netanyahu cancelled the latest meeting FFS. ;D

And are you suggesting that Obama is wrong to have a problem with the endless annexation settlement expansions or wrong to have a different opinion on the Iran deal?

BTW, you can make legitimate criticisms of Obama's visit to and actions on Cuba (personally I agree that its time) without the ludicrous "heroes" bullshit. Its not exactly a straightforward, black and white situation.

That is, if you want to actually discuss things seriously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 12:35:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 07:52:01 PM
Obama got pissed with Netanyahu after he gave him a lecture in the Oval Office in front of the cameras and showed up Obama for the novice he was/is . He didn't want to meet him any more after that incident. What concessions have the Castro brothers made ? Released any political prisoners or any gestures at all. The president of the USA getting pictured with che Guevara in the background is not a good idea , he's not Gerry Adams  . The socialist mask is slipping because he has nothing to lose now .

What concessions have the Castros made over 55 years of being isolated by the US?

Has the US policy/embargo up until now made the lives of the average Cuban any better?

And its not like Obama has ignored the dissident issue, including on this trip.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2016, 02:21:15 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 21, 2016, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 07:52:01 PM
Obama got pissed with Netanyahu after he gave him a lecture in the Oval Office in front of the cameras and showed up Obama for the novice he was/is . He didn't want to meet him any more after that incident. What concessions have the Castro brothers made ? Released any political prisoners or any gestures at all. The president of the USA getting pictured with che Guevara in the background is not a good idea , he's not Gerry Adams  . The socialist mask is slipping because he has nothing to lose now .

Ah I see, I missed all the subtle nuances of the realpolitik. Thanks for the education.
Also, thanks for saying that Che Guevara is not Gerry Adams. I'm sure I'm one of the many who thought they were the same person. I'm also curious about these socialist masks- I can't seem to find them on Amazon- where else can you get them?
army surplus stores probably between the old East german parka jackets and the plo white and black scarves
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2016, 02:22:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 12:30:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 06:24:00 PM
See Obamas over getting some tips from his heroes the Castro brothers today.
Won't meet the Israeli pm but will fly to Cuba to meet these ,guys does anyone else think this is unreal.

Netanyahu cancelled the latest meeting FFS. ;D

And are you suggesting that Obama is wrong to have a problem with the endless annexation settlement expansions or wrong to have a different opinion on the Iran deal?

BTW, you can make legitimate criticisms of Obama's visit to and actions on Cuba (personally I agree that its time) without the ludicrous "heroes" bullshit. Its not exactly a straightforward, black and white situation.

That is, if you want to actually discuss things seriously.
he would not meet him until he had his deal with Iran done .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2016, 02:24:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 12:35:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 07:52:01 PM
Obama got pissed with Netanyahu after he gave him a lecture in the Oval Office in front of the cameras and showed up Obama for the novice he was/is . He didn't want to meet him any more after that incident. What concessions have the Castro brothers made ? Released any political prisoners or any gestures at all. The president of the USA getting pictured with che Guevara in the background is not a good idea , he's not Gerry Adams  . The socialist mask is slipping because he has nothing to lose now .

What concessions have the Castros made over 55 years of being isolated by the US?

Has the US policy/embargo up until now made the lives of the average Cuban any better?

And its not like Obama has ignored the dissident issue, including on this trip.
obama would be better suited to be United Nations secretary General or a role like that .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2016, 04:45:28 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 22, 2016, 02:24:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 12:35:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 07:52:01 PM
Obama got pissed with Netanyahu after he gave him a lecture in the Oval Office in front of the cameras and showed up Obama for the novice he was/is . He didn't want to meet him any more after that incident. What concessions have the Castro brothers made ? Released any political prisoners or any gestures at all. The president of the USA getting pictured with che Guevara in the background is not a good idea , he's not Gerry Adams  . The socialist mask is slipping because he has nothing to lose now .

What concessions have the Castros made over 55 years of being isolated by the US?

Has the US policy/embargo up until now made the lives of the average Cuban any better?

And its not like Obama has ignored the dissident issue, including on this trip.
obama would be better suited to be United Nations secretary General or a role like that .
He would make a super meath manager
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2016, 04:48:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 12:35:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 07:52:01 PM
Obama got pissed with Netanyahu after he gave him a lecture in the Oval Office in front of the cameras and showed up Obama for the novice he was/is . He didn't want to meet him any more after that incident. What concessions have the Castro brothers made ? Released any political prisoners or any gestures at all. The president of the USA getting pictured with che Guevara in the background is not a good idea , he's not Gerry Adams  . The socialist mask is slipping because he has nothing to lose now .

What concessions have the Castros made over 55 years of being isolated by the US?

Has the US policy/embargo up until now made the lives of the average Cuban any better?

And its not like Obama has ignored the dissident issue, including on this trip.
the dems are doing a better job adjusting to the demographic changes in the US. Young latinos don't care about the embargo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 22, 2016, 05:11:27 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 21, 2016, 06:40:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 06:24:00 PM
See Obamas over getting some tips from his heroes the Castro brothers today.
Won't meet the Israeli pm but will fly to Cuba to meet these ,guys does anyone else think this is unreal.

Do you mean that it's unreal that a President of the US has the foresight to do both? absolutely, seems perfectly reasonable, smart even.

If you mean that it is unreal that the President of the USA is meeting the president of a neighboring country that it is re-establishing valuable trade and political links with the US? well, that seems perfectly reasonable- smart even.

That he is also not meeting the PM of a country that is arguing about the details of the 10 year multibillion defense aid agreement it is receiving from the US, and also interfered with the US international relationships and domestic security policy to try and collapse the US led international nuclear treaty with Iran? again, that seems perfectly reasonable- smart even

The fact that its because that PM declined to travel to the US to accept the President's invite for bilateral talks (but falsely blamed it on the president's schedule)- well that seems a bit daft of the PM of that small country roughly the size of half of ulster. And maybe unreal that the President would ask twice. After all he's not seeking re-election and can maybe use that fact on behalf of the US in those talks.

Glad to see you share your delight in such a public way...
Unreal indeed!

I am sure the people of Cuba who have lived their lives under these  two tramps share your view that Obama is a visionary, as do the Cuban people of Miami! :-[ :-[

There are so many reasons to not have done this but hey, the prez can do no wrong at this stage in the eyes of the likes of you.......maybe its the legal/illegal thing, I know not the attraction with this useless bastard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 22, 2016, 05:24:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 21, 2016, 07:02:01 PM
The Israel lovers are something else ::)
The whole world is out of step with them.
Netanyahu  is a grade A arsehole.  He went behind Obama 's back to speak to congress in 2011 and the GOP gave him 29 ovations. He bet the house on the GOP and now it has no voters. Now AIPAC has to invite Trump to its conference even though he has made antisemitic  statements. You couldn't make it up.

So he just showed up and they let him speak, is that your story? Wise up ffs.

You liberals lie a lot, Obama knew he was coming for a month or more but you make it seem like he snuck into the country and delivered, he did not meet with Obama because he has no time for the useless f**ker!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2016, 05:29:00 AM
Quote from: stew on March 22, 2016, 05:24:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 21, 2016, 07:02:01 PM
The Israel lovers are something else ::)
The whole world is out of step with them.
Netanyahu  is a grade A arsehole.  He went behind Obama 's back to speak to congress in 2011 and the GOP gave him 29 ovations. He bet the house on the GOP and now it has no voters. Now AIPAC has to invite Trump to its conference even though he has made antisemitic  statements. You couldn't make it up.

So he just showed up and they let him speak, is that your story? Wise up ffs.

You liberals lie a lot, Obama knew he was coming for a month or more but you make it seem like he snuck into the country and delivered, he did not meet with Obama because he has no time for the useless f**ker!
It's bigger than that stew. The zionists knew what they were buying with the GOP elite. Lindsey Graham would deliver all the lines on time. So would mcconnell. Tyronie.
Now the ground is shifting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on March 22, 2016, 09:44:35 AM
The US has made some major foreign policy f**k-ups over the past half century + but surely the continued cold war with Cuba must  be the most ludicrous policy for the longest time of any successive governments of any one country*.

How anyone can criticise a country making or reciprocating overtures from one of their neighbours is beyond me.

Gmac take a bow son.


* exc Eng's occupation of Ireland of course  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2016, 10:33:22 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 22, 2016, 09:44:35 AM
The US has made some major foreign policy f**k-ups over the past half century + but surely the continued cold war with Cuba must  be the most ludicrous policy for the longest time of any successive governments of any one country*.

How anyone can criticise a country making or reciprocating overtures from one of their neighbours is beyond me.

Gmac take a bow son.


* exc Eng's occupation of Ireland of course  ;)
driven by bitter Cuban exiles in miamI who are dying off
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 11:35:32 AM
Quote from: stew on March 22, 2016, 05:24:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2016, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 21, 2016, 07:02:01 PM
The Israel lovers are something else ::)
The whole world is out of step with them.
Netanyahu  is a grade A arsehole.  He went behind Obama 's back to speak to congress in 2011 and the GOP gave him 29 ovations. He bet the house on the GOP and now it has no voters. Now AIPAC has to invite Trump to its conference even though he has made antisemitic  statements. You couldn't make it up.

So he just showed up and they let him speak, is that your story? Wise up ffs.

You liberals lie a lot, Obama knew he was coming for a month or more but you make it seem like he snuck into the country and delivered, he did not meet with Obama because he has no time for the useless f**ker!

Where's the lie? Netanyahu snubbed Obama and accepted an offer from the GOP to address the house.

Tell us, what is Obama doing wrong with respect to Israel?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 11:44:49 AM
Quote from: stew on March 22, 2016, 05:11:27 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 21, 2016, 06:40:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2016, 06:24:00 PM
See Obamas over getting some tips from his heroes the Castro brothers today.
Won't meet the Israeli pm but will fly to Cuba to meet these ,guys does anyone else think this is unreal.

Do you mean that it's unreal that a President of the US has the foresight to do both? absolutely, seems perfectly reasonable, smart even.

If you mean that it is unreal that the President of the USA is meeting the president of a neighboring country that it is re-establishing valuable trade and political links with the US? well, that seems perfectly reasonable- smart even.

That he is also not meeting the PM of a country that is arguing about the details of the 10 year multibillion defense aid agreement it is receiving from the US, and also interfered with the US international relationships and domestic security policy to try and collapse the US led international nuclear treaty with Iran? again, that seems perfectly reasonable- smart even

The fact that its because that PM declined to travel to the US to accept the President's invite for bilateral talks (but falsely blamed it on the president's schedule)- well that seems a bit daft of the PM of that small country roughly the size of half of ulster. And maybe unreal that the President would ask twice. After all he's not seeking re-election and can maybe use that fact on behalf of the US in those talks.

Glad to see you share your delight in such a public way...
Unreal indeed!

I am sure the people of Cuba who have lived their lives under these  two tramps share your view that Obama is a visionary, as do the Cuban people of Miami! :-[ :-[

There are so many reasons to not have done this but hey, the prez can do no wrong at this stage in the eyes of the likes of you.......maybe its the legal/illegal thing, I know not the attraction with this useless b**tard.

So what SHOULD he be doing stew?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TF15 on March 22, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
Does Trump actually have any policies other than the ambiguous 'we need to get smarter', 'we are losing so bad' and 'we need to figure out what the hell is going on'. His interview on FOX after the Belgium attacks spoke volumes for his total lack of solutions (on terrorism in this instance). He just peddles put the same nothing phrases. If the American public can't see through the fact he is a total bluffer then he is the President they deserve.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 22, 2016, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: TF15 on March 22, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
Does Trump actually have any policies other than the ambiguous 'we need to get smarter', 'we are losing so bad' and 'we need to figure out what the hell is going on'. His interview on FOX after the Belgium attacks spoke volumes for his total lack of solutions (on terrorism in this instance). He just peddles put the same nothing phrases. If the American public can't see through the fact he is a total bluffer then he is the President they deserve.

NO!!!! The Emperor's New Clothes Springs to mind. . . when is that nutbar of a Country going to wake up and realise that he hasn't a f**king clue how to run the show and it's going to affect the rest of the World.

When he made another unsubstantiated claim about a protestor at his rally being involved with ISIS he was called on it by an anchor and said "I don't know, all I know is what's on the internet"

Yeah we want him!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 22, 2016, 02:40:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

Yeah she told the coal miners in Ohio that they'd be losing their jobs as well . . . Something seems to be up!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

1. Come on - Clinton is clearly talking about GOP conduct and obstructionism (this one is even worse and more pathetic than the "you didn't build that" outrage of four years ago!).
2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab? Given that conservatives are supposedly MOST worried about government costs?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:24:05 PM
Quote from: TF15 on March 22, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
Does Trump actually have any policies other than the ambiguous 'we need to get smarter', 'we are losing so bad' and 'we need to figure out what the hell is going on'. His interview on FOX after the Belgium attacks spoke volumes for his total lack of solutions (on terrorism in this instance). He just peddles put the same nothing phrases. If the American public can't see through the fact he is a total bluffer then he is the President they deserve.

Well, he's call everyone names and boasting about his brain power, so there's that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

1. Come on - Clinton is clearly talking about GOP conduct and obstructionism (this one is even worse and more pathetic than the "you didn't build that" outrage of four years ago!).
2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab? Given that conservatives are supposedly MOST worried about government costs?

You and I both know that, but will the low information voters know it?

Very similar to Romneys 47% comment. Everyone (who wanted to) knew what he meant but he didn't articulate it properly and it got twisted and turned
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:24:05 PM
Quote from: TF15 on March 22, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
Does Trump actually have any policies other than the ambiguous 'we need to get smarter', 'we are losing so bad' and 'we need to figure out what the hell is going on'. His interview on FOX after the Belgium attacks spoke volumes for his total lack of solutions (on terrorism in this instance). He just peddles put the same nothing phrases. If the American public can't see through the fact he is a total bluffer then he is the President they deserve.

Well, he's call everyone names and boasting about his brain power, so there's that.

And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 22, 2016, 03:58:23 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 22, 2016, 09:44:35 AM
The US has made some major foreign policy f**k-ups over the past half century + but surely the continued cold war with Cuba must  be the most ludicrous policy for the longest time of any successive governments of any one country*.

How anyone can criticise a country making or reciprocating overtures from one of their neighbours is beyond me.

Gmac take a bow son.


* exc Eng's occupation of Ireland of course  ;)

Well human rights abuses seem top be beyond you, the fact he took it up the arse and gave them many concessions they asked for, all the while getting absolutely nothing in return.

Communism is an insidious disease, Castro is a bit more progressive than his brother however he is still torturing his people and 45000 Cubans left fir the states last year, why do you think that is happening?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM

2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab?

Ask for a credit card up front. Works for hotels.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 22, 2016, 04:07:05 PM
Quote from: stew on March 22, 2016, 03:58:23 PM

Well human rights abuses seem top be beyond you, the fact he took it up the arse and gave them many concessions they asked for, all the while getting absolutely nothing in return.


I hadn't seen any coverage of the new US state department policy of having diplomatic and trade relations only with countries with a strong record on human rights. Like say for example China, or Saudi Arabia...

And I was also unaware of the president "took it up the arse", again something I would have expected would have attracted a significant amount of press. At the very least some of the comedians should have been picking that kind of thing up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:09:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.

Finally, this might be the difference between us.

If a strange chick walked up to you in a bar, covered in fake tan, with hair like a bleached grapefruit, and promised you that everything was 'going to be great', you would be off to the nearest registry office.

Me, I would need to see a lot more evidence. A lot more. And frequently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2016, 04:16:02 PM
Quote from: stew on March 22, 2016, 03:58:23 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 22, 2016, 09:44:35 AM
The US has made some major foreign policy f**k-ups over the past half century + but surely the continued cold war with Cuba must  be the most ludicrous policy for the longest time of any successive governments of any one country*.

How anyone can criticise a country making or reciprocating overtures from one of their neighbours is beyond me.

Gmac take a bow son.


* exc Eng's occupation of Ireland of course  ;)

Well human rights abuses seem top be beyond you, the fact he took it up the arse and gave them many concessions they asked for, all the while getting absolutely nothing in return.

Communism is an insidious disease, Castro is a bit more progressive than his brother however he is still torturing his people and 45000 Cubans left fir the states last year, why do you think that is happening?

An awful lot of people left Ireland last 7 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:09:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.

Finally, this might be the difference between us.

If a strange chick walked up to you in a bar, covered in fake tan, with hair like a bleached grapefruit, and promised you that everything was 'going to be great', you would be off to the nearest registry office.

Me, I would need to see a lot more evidence. A lot more. And frequently.

And your other option would be someone who looks like shirley temple-bar, solicits money from well heeled clients and has a reputation for leaving a trail of dead people in her wake.

tough choice ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:22:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:09:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.

Finally, this might be the difference between us.

If a strange chick walked up to you in a bar, covered in fake tan, with hair like a bleached grapefruit, and promised you that everything was 'going to be great', you would be off to the nearest registry office.

Me, I would need to see a lot more evidence. A lot more. And frequently.

And your other option would be someone who looks like shirley temple-bar, solicits money from well heeled clients and has a reputation for leaving a trail of dead people in her wake.

tough choice ;)

Republicans blaming Hillary for 'leaving a trail of dead people' is the best possible example of the anti-intellectualism problem in American politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM

2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab?

Ask for a credit card up front. Works for hotels.

And when the illegal immigrant has no credit card?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:35:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.

;D :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2016, 04:36:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.
Believe me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:39:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 22, 2016, 04:36:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.
Believe me

'You have to think anyway, so why not think big?'

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

1. Come on - Clinton is clearly talking about GOP conduct and obstructionism (this one is even worse and more pathetic than the "you didn't build that" outrage of four years ago!).
2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab? Given that conservatives are supposedly MOST worried about government costs?

You and I both know that, but will the low information voters know it?

Very similar to Romneys 47% comment. Everyone (who wanted to) knew what he meant but he didn't articulate it properly and it got twisted and turned

To me, the 47% thing was a case of Romney saying what he really thought, in what he thought was a safe place.

Similar to Obama's comment about working class whites voting against their economic interests because they "cling to their guns or religion".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM

2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab?

Ask for a credit card up front. Works for hotels.

And when the illegal immigrant has no credit card?

Then don't go on holidays in the first place
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

1. Come on - Clinton is clearly talking about GOP conduct and obstructionism (this one is even worse and more pathetic than the "you didn't build that" outrage of four years ago!).
2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab? Given that conservatives are supposedly MOST worried about government costs?

You and I both know that, but will the low information voters know it?

Very similar to Romneys 47% comment. Everyone (who wanted to) knew what he meant but he didn't articulate it properly and it got twisted and turned

To me, the 47% thing was a case of Romney saying what he really thought, in what he thought was a safe place.

Similar to Obama's comment about working class whites voting against their economic interests because they "cling to their guns or religion".

So you give Bill the benefit of the doubt but not Mitt???

(Same way you're giving Harry Reid, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer the benefit of the doubt over the Supreme Court nominees)

See thats the problem, everything your/my guy says is taken out of context, while anything the opposition says truly reveals their intent-LOL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2016, 06:50:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:22:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:09:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.

Finally, this might be the difference between us.

If a strange chick walked up to you in a bar, covered in fake tan, with hair like a bleached grapefruit, and promised you that everything was 'going to be great', you would be off to the nearest registry office.

Me, I would need to see a lot more evidence. A lot more. And frequently.

And your other option would be someone who looks like shirley temple-bar, solicits money from well heeled clients and has a reputation for leaving a trail of dead people in her wake.

tough choice ;)

Republicans blaming Hillary for 'leaving a trail of dead people' is the best possible example of the anti-intellectualism problem in American politics.
I would agree with foxcommander. Hillary will take money from anyone and the consequences of her decisions are of no interest to her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 07:32:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:22:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:09:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.

Finally, this might be the difference between us.

If a strange chick walked up to you in a bar, covered in fake tan, with hair like a bleached grapefruit, and promised you that everything was 'going to be great', you would be off to the nearest registry office.

Me, I would need to see a lot more evidence. A lot more. And frequently.

And your other option would be someone who looks like shirley temple-bar, solicits money from well heeled clients and has a reputation for leaving a trail of dead people in her wake.

tough choice ;)

Republicans blaming Hillary for 'leaving a trail of dead people' is the best possible example of the anti-intellectualism problem in American politics.

Pass the popcorn Hillary!!

(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/osama-bin-laden-situation-room-president-barack-obama-joe-biden-hillary-clinton.jpg?w=560&quality=75&strip=color&h=373)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 22, 2016, 07:52:53 PM
Where do you begin on that stupidity of that one?

Are you saying that the killing of Bin Laden shows Hillary to be a killer, or that given the other important people in that room, that you simply want to abuse the woman near the front?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2016, 08:25:07 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 22, 2016, 09:44:35 AM
The US has made some major foreign policy f**k-ups over the past half century + but surely the continued cold war with Cuba must  be the most ludicrous policy for the longest time of any successive governments of any one country*.

How anyone can criticise a country making or reciprocating overtures from one of their neighbours is beyond me.

Gmac take a bow son.


* exc Eng's occupation of Ireland of course  ;)

do you not think he's being played by these two guys ?
What will the usa do open up all trade and travel with Cuba while the 2 Boyos are running a dictatorship ?they take all the money he wants to send there way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

1. Come on - Clinton is clearly talking about GOP conduct and obstructionism (this one is even worse and more pathetic than the "you didn't build that" outrage of four years ago!).
2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab? Given that conservatives are supposedly MOST worried about government costs?

You and I both know that, but will the low information voters know it?

Very similar to Romneys 47% comment. Everyone (who wanted to) knew what he meant but he didn't articulate it properly and it got twisted and turned

To me, the 47% thing was a case of Romney saying what he really thought, in what he thought was a safe place.

Similar to Obama's comment about working class whites voting against their economic interests because they "cling to their guns or religion".

So you give Bill the benefit of the doubt but not Mitt???

(Same way you're giving Harry Reid, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer the benefit of the doubt over the Supreme Court nominees)

See thats the problem, everything your/my guy says is taken out of context, while anything the opposition says truly reveals their intent-LOL

Clinton was clearly talking about the GOP. There is no other reasonable interpretation for what he said.

You'll have to explain to me how Romney was misinterpreted. To me, he was saying what he clearly thought in a situation where he could be honest, that a certain segment of the population was out of reach for him because they viewed the Democrats as more favourable in terms of government benefits. If I'm wrong, please explain how.

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That's an entitlement. The government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49... he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5–10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not

As for the supreme court, all you have for Reid, Biden, Schumer etc. is talk and threats, something politicians specialize in. NOT action. Biden, as committee chairman, gave the GOP nominees their due consideration i.e interviews, hearings, committee and then whole senate votes. The GOP are, so far, taking action. We'll see how it pans out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:29:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 07:32:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:22:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 04:09:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
And he is promising that everything 'is going to be great'.

You've no reason to doubt it.

Finally, this might be the difference between us.

If a strange chick walked up to you in a bar, covered in fake tan, with hair like a bleached grapefruit, and promised you that everything was 'going to be great', you would be off to the nearest registry office.

Me, I would need to see a lot more evidence. A lot more. And frequently.

And your other option would be someone who looks like shirley temple-bar, solicits money from well heeled clients and has a reputation for leaving a trail of dead people in her wake.

tough choice ;)

Republicans blaming Hillary for 'leaving a trail of dead people' is the best possible example of the anti-intellectualism problem in American politics.

Pass the popcorn Hillary!!

(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/osama-bin-laden-situation-room-president-barack-obama-joe-biden-hillary-clinton.jpg?w=560&quality=75&strip=color&h=373)

You stick up a photo of the situation room during the Bin Laden raid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:30:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM

2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab?

Ask for a credit card up front. Works for hotels.

And when the illegal immigrant has no credit card?

Then don't go on holidays in the first place

Meanwhile, in the real world...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 08:42:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:30:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM

2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab?

Ask for a credit card up front. Works for hotels.

And when the illegal immigrant has no credit card?

Then don't go on holidays in the first place

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Making excuses again. No valid paperwork so shouldn't be there. Should be turfed out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2016, 09:50:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 08:42:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:30:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM

2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab?

Ask for a credit card up front. Works for hotels.

And when the illegal immigrant has no credit card?

Then don't go on holidays in the first place

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Making excuses again. No valid paperwork so shouldn't be there. Should be turfed out.

You're not going to give them medical care first before they enter the process of deportation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 23, 2016, 12:13:52 AM
Ah, the compassion of a cactus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2016, 02:44:12 AM
Deportation of 11m would cost upwards of 250bn. I can't see it happening
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 23, 2016, 03:51:36 AM
Thats 10 walls..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2016, 09:25:42 AM
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432876/donald-trump-white-working-class-dysfunction-real-opportunity-needed-not-trump

The Washington Post's "Wonkbook" newsletter compared the counties Trump won in the so-called Super Tuesday primaries with the demographic data and found trends that will surprise no one who has been paying attention (and certainly no one, I hope, who has been reading this magazine). The life expectancies among non-college-educated white Americans have been plummeting in an almost unprecedented fashion, a trend not seen on such a large scale since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the social anarchy that prevailed in Russia afterward. Trump counties had proportionally fewer people with college degrees. Trump counties had fewer people working. And the white people in Trump counties were likely to die younger. The causes of death were "increased rates of disease and ill health, increased drug overdose and abuse, and suicide," the Post's Wonkblog website reported.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2016, 09:36:22 AM
Imagine someone writing this about Cavan or Thurles

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432876/donald-trump-white-working-class-dysfunction-real-opportunity-needed-not-trump

The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible. Forget all your cheap theatrical Bruce Springsteen crap. Forget your sanctimony about struggling Rust Belt factory towns and your conspiracy theories about the wily Orientals stealing our jobs. Forget your goddamned gypsum, and, if he has a problem with that, forget Ed Burke, too. The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles. Donald Trump's speeches make them feel good. So does OxyContin. What they need isn't analgesics, literal or political. They need real opportunity, which means that they need real change, which means that they need U-Haul. If you want to live, get out of Garbutt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 23, 2016, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

1. Come on - Clinton is clearly talking about GOP conduct and obstructionism (this one is even worse and more pathetic than the "you didn't build that" outrage of four years ago!).
2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab? Given that conservatives are supposedly MOST worried about government costs?

You and I both know that, but will the low information voters know it?

Very similar to Romneys 47% comment. Everyone (who wanted to) knew what he meant but he didn't articulate it properly and it got twisted and turned

To me, the 47% thing was a case of Romney saying what he really thought, in what he thought was a safe place.

Similar to Obama's comment about working class whites voting against their economic interests because they "cling to their guns or religion".

So you give Bill the benefit of the doubt but not Mitt???

(Same way you're giving Harry Reid, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer the benefit of the doubt over the Supreme Court nominees)

See thats the problem, everything your/my guy says is taken out of context, while anything the opposition says truly reveals their intent-LOL

Clinton was clearly talking about the GOP. There is no other reasonable interpretation for what he said.

You'll have to explain to me how Romney was misinterpreted. To me, he was saying what he clearly thought in a situation where he could be honest, that a certain segment of the population was out of reach for him because they viewed the Democrats as more favourable in terms of government benefits. If I'm wrong, please explain how.

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That's an entitlement. The government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49... he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5–10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not

As for the supreme court, all you have for Reid, Biden, Schumer etc. is talk and threats, something politicians specialize in. NOT action. Biden, as committee chairman, gave the GOP nominees their due consideration i.e interviews, hearings, committee and then whole senate votes. The GOP are, so far, taking action. We'll see how it pans out.

Was he f**k! Its as clear as mud and all he had to was state he blamed the GOP and not Obama.

Keep making shit up as you go along and keep that liberal spin going, you are so far from reality it is beyond belief, Clinton and ohama despise each other, try have done since before the mouse was elected president, something o for with the truths about his wife and her foibles when they ran against each other eight year ago.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 11:43:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2016, 02:44:12 AM
Deportation of 11m would cost upwards of 250bn. I can't see it happening

250BN ?? For that money you could stick a bounty for folk capturing illegals and hire out some greyhound coaches to ferry them en masse over the border once the bus is full. Trump's wall then would keep them out.
Could do it for a lot less than 250bn and the good folk of America could profit from this new occupation. Everyone wins!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 09:50:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 08:42:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:30:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM

2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab?

Ask for a credit card up front. Works for hotels.

And when the illegal immigrant has no credit card?

Then don't go on holidays in the first place

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Making excuses again. No valid paperwork so shouldn't be there. Should be turfed out.

You're not going to give them medical care first before they enter the process of deportation?

It's that attitude towards people breaking the law which screws things up for the legal resident.
Using public resources to which they make no contribution - takes public money and hospital space from real citizens.

I'll just do what I want and let those suckers pay for it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 23, 2016, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 11:43:59 AM

Could do it for a lot less than 250bn and the good folk of America could profit from this new occupation. Everyone wins!
I dint think that there are many "good folk of america" in the bounty hunting business, with apologies to all the thin skinned easily offended bounty hunters who may take umbrage at that comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 03:40:23 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 23, 2016, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 11:43:59 AM

Could do it for a lot less than 250bn and the good folk of America could profit from this new occupation. Everyone wins!
I dint think that there are many "good folk of america" in the bounty hunting business, with apologies to all the thin skinned easily offended bounty hunters who may take umbrage at that comment.

Think of it as job creation.
With 250 billion up for grabs it will be a lucrative career.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 23, 2016, 12:13:52 AM
Ah, the compassion of a cactus.
Yeah foxy's right wing US political views fit very nicely with his vocal support of Sinn Fein on this side of the big pond!

I'm sure there's plenty of right wing and racist Shinners pretending to be liberal
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 23, 2016, 12:13:52 AM
Ah, the compassion of a cactus.
Yeah foxy's right wing US political views fit very nicely with his vocal support of Sinn Fein on this side of the big pond!

Please provide a quote to support that comment of vocal support.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 23, 2016, 12:13:52 AM
Ah, the compassion of a cactus.
Yeah foxy's right wing US political views fit very nicely with his vocal support of Sinn Fein on this side of the big pond!

Please provide a quote to support that comment of vocal support.
Great. So are you saying you are anti Sinn Fein on the basis that their political views are diametrically opposed to your own, or are you going to continue to be a hypocrite on US v Irish political threads?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 23, 2016, 12:13:52 AM
Ah, the compassion of a cactus.
Yeah foxy's right wing US political views fit very nicely with his vocal support of Sinn Fein on this side of the big pond!

Please provide a quote to support that comment of vocal support.
Great. So are you saying you are anti Sinn Fein on the basis that their political views are diametrically opposed to your own, or are you going to continue to be a hypocrite on US v Irish political threads?

Please provide a quote to support that comment of vocal support.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 23, 2016, 12:13:52 AM
Ah, the compassion of a cactus.
Yeah foxy's right wing US political views fit very nicely with his vocal support of Sinn Fein on this side of the big pond!

Please provide a quote to support that comment of vocal support.
Great. So are you saying you are anti Sinn Fein on the basis that their political views are diametrically opposed to your own, or are you going to continue to be a hypocrite on US v Irish political threads?

Please provide a quote to support that comment of vocal support.
No!
Everyone knows your a Shinner. But feel free now to disassociate yourself from them on the basis their liberal and socialist agenda is the opposite of yours?
Or feel free to continue to amuse me by being a hypocrite!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 04:37:03 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 23, 2016, 12:13:52 AM
Ah, the compassion of a cactus.
Yeah foxy's right wing US political views fit very nicely with his vocal support of Sinn Fein on this side of the big pond!

Please provide a quote to support that comment of vocal support.
Great. So are you saying you are anti Sinn Fein on the basis that their political views are diametrically opposed to your own, or are you going to continue to be a hypocrite on US v Irish political threads?

Please provide a quote to support that comment of vocal support.
No!

Because you can't. Nice try. Now back in your box.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:48:10 PM
Ah cmon foxy, everyone knows you're a Shinner. But please feel free now to disassociate yourself from them on the basis their liberal and socialist agenda is the opposite of yours?

But I reckon you'll continue to be the hystercial hypocrite!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 23, 2016, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:48:10 PM
Ah cmon foxy, everyone knows you're a Shinner. But please feel free now to disassociate yourself from them on the basis their liberal and socialist agenda is the opposite of yours?

But I reckon you'll continue to be the hystercial hypocrite!

He came out defending SF pretty quickly in this exchange:

Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2014, 05:20:37 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2014, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2014, 07:44:26 PM
I hope everyone gets out this weekend and shows support against these charges.

Let's stop this before it gets out of hand. We let them screw us over with the bailout and if we don't act now it will happen again.
The politicians need to be accountable for what they do and how much they plan to spend, but can't let this turn into another black hole the way it is being implemented.

No more.


This is like taking off the corner forward when you are 40 points down with a minute to go.

Too little, far, far too late.

Maybe it is too late this time but perhaps it's the wake up call the country needs to start questioning what their leaders are up to.
FF, FG, Labour need to be thrown in the bin.

Along with Sinn Féin.

Replacing Civil War politics with even earlier politics is hardly the way forward.

From my recollection SF aren't the political party that have led the people into the current mess or sold Ireland down the river.

Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Labour are GUILTY of lining their own pockets and those of their pals.

If the people are beginning to see this then at least not all is in vain. For too long people have voted because of family allegiences or because the TD is from the locality etc. Hopefully they'll now see that it doesn't matter where your representative is from, only if they are making a difference for the greater good.
If not, get rid of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 06:32:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2016, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:48:10 PM
Ah cmon foxy, everyone knows you're a Shinner. But please feel free now to disassociate yourself from them on the basis their liberal and socialist agenda is the opposite of yours?

But I reckon you'll continue to be the hystercial hypocrite!

He came out defending SF pretty quickly in this exchange:

Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2014, 05:20:37 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2014, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2014, 07:44:26 PM
I hope everyone gets out this weekend and shows support against these charges.

Let's stop this before it gets out of hand. We let them screw us over with the bailout and if we don't act now it will happen again.
The politicians need to be accountable for what they do and how much they plan to spend, but can't let this turn into another black hole the way it is being implemented.

No more.


This is like taking off the corner forward when you are 40 points down with a minute to go.

Too little, far, far too late.

Maybe it is too late this time but perhaps it's the wake up call the country needs to start questioning what their leaders are up to.
FF, FG, Labour need to be thrown in the bin.

Along with Sinn Féin.

Replacing Civil War politics with even earlier politics is hardly the way forward.

From my recollection SF aren't the political party that have led the people into the current mess or sold Ireland down the river.

Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Labour are GUILTY of lining their own pockets and those of their pals.

If the people are beginning to see this then at least not all is in vain. For too long people have voted because of family allegiences or because the TD is from the locality etc. Hopefully they'll now see that it doesn't matter where your representative is from, only if they are making a difference for the greater good.
If not, get rid of them.

Wrong Muppet and you're being disingenuous with your facts - I stated that Fine Gael, Labour and Fianna Fail concocted the mess the country finds itself in. No doubt you want to twist that statement to suit yourself.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 23, 2016, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 06:32:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2016, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:48:10 PM
Ah cmon foxy, everyone knows you're a Shinner. But please feel free now to disassociate yourself from them on the basis their liberal and socialist agenda is the opposite of yours?

But I reckon you'll continue to be the hystercial hypocrite!

He came out defending SF pretty quickly in this exchange:

Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2014, 05:20:37 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2014, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2014, 07:44:26 PM
I hope everyone gets out this weekend and shows support against these charges.

Let's stop this before it gets out of hand. We let them screw us over with the bailout and if we don't act now it will happen again.
The politicians need to be accountable for what they do and how much they plan to spend, but can't let this turn into another black hole the way it is being implemented.

No more.


This is like taking off the corner forward when you are 40 points down with a minute to go.

Too little, far, far too late.

Maybe it is too late this time but perhaps it's the wake up call the country needs to start questioning what their leaders are up to.
FF, FG, Labour need to be thrown in the bin.

Along with Sinn Féin.

Replacing Civil War politics with even earlier politics is hardly the way forward.

From my recollection SF aren't the political party that have led the people into the current mess or sold Ireland down the river.

Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Labour are GUILTY of lining their own pockets and those of their pals.

If the people are beginning to see this then at least not all is in vain. For too long people have voted because of family allegiences or because the TD is from the locality etc. Hopefully they'll now see that it doesn't matter where your representative is from, only if they are making a difference for the greater good.
If not, get rid of them.

Wrong Muppet and you're being disingenuous with your facts - I stated that Fine Gael, Labour and Fianna Fail concocted the mess the country finds itself in. No doubt you want to twist that statement to suit yourself.

Wrong Foxy and you're the one being disingenuous with your facts. The bold is what I was getting at despite your very lame attempt to deflect attention to the next sentence.

You have attacked most if not all of the party leaders (fair enough) but have frequently defended Gerry Adams. In the above you attacked FG, FF & Labour, but defended SF. What could we possibly infer from this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 08:22:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2016, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 06:32:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2016, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:48:10 PM
Ah cmon foxy, everyone knows you're a Shinner. But please feel free now to disassociate yourself from them on the basis their liberal and socialist agenda is the opposite of yours?

But I reckon you'll continue to be the hystercial hypocrite!

He came out defending SF pretty quickly in this exchange:

Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2014, 05:20:37 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2014, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2014, 07:44:26 PM
I hope everyone gets out this weekend and shows support against these charges.

Let's stop this before it gets out of hand. We let them screw us over with the bailout and if we don't act now it will happen again.
The politicians need to be accountable for what they do and how much they plan to spend, but can't let this turn into another black hole the way it is being implemented.

No more.


This is like taking off the corner forward when you are 40 points down with a minute to go.

Too little, far, far too late.

Maybe it is too late this time but perhaps it's the wake up call the country needs to start questioning what their leaders are up to.
FF, FG, Labour need to be thrown in the bin.

Along with Sinn Féin.

Replacing Civil War politics with even earlier politics is hardly the way forward.

From my recollection SF aren't the political party that have led the people into the current mess or sold Ireland down the river.

Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Labour are GUILTY of lining their own pockets and those of their pals.

If the people are beginning to see this then at least not all is in vain. For too long people have voted because of family allegiences or because the TD is from the locality etc. Hopefully they'll now see that it doesn't matter where your representative is from, only if they are making a difference for the greater good.
If not, get rid of them.

Wrong Muppet and you're being disingenuous with your facts - I stated that Fine Gael, Labour and Fianna Fail concocted the mess the country finds itself in. No doubt you want to twist that statement to suit yourself.
What could we possibly infer from this?

Whatever you like. I really can't give a toss. I've repeatedly stated how FG, FF and Labour were in government and have screwed the place over. Feel free to defend them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 23, 2016, 08:55:46 PM
This is a waste of time, as you never ever post within an asses roar of whatever point someone makes, but, no one here is defending them. No one.

It was pointed out that you are a Shinner. You pretend you are not, demanding some proof, and then I showed that you attack all the other parties and defend SF. I asked you what we are to infer from this and you run off on a tangent again. It isn't fooling anyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2016, 09:12:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2016, 08:55:46 PM
This is a waste of time, as you never ever post within an asses roar of whatever point someone makes, but, no one here is defending them. No one.

It was pointed out that you are a Shinner. You pretend you are not, demanding some proof, and then I showed that you attack all the other parties and defend SF. I asked you what we are to infer from this and you run off on a tangent again. It isn't fooling anyone.

He's like an eel, isn't he?

I don't know about you but I've come to read his posts in a sneering, nasty, hate-filled voice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 09:14:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2016, 09:12:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2016, 08:55:46 PM
This is a waste of time, as you never ever post within an asses roar of whatever point someone makes, but, no one here is defending them. No one.

It was pointed out that you are a Shinner. You pretend you are not, demanding some proof, and then I showed that you attack all the other parties and defend SF. I asked you what we are to infer from this and you run off on a tangent again. It isn't fooling anyone.

He's like an eel, isn't he?

I don't know about you but I've come to read his posts in a sneering, nasty, hate-filled voice.

Ah the gang is all here now!

Voices in your head getting to you Eamon?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2016, 09:16:26 PM
See what I mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 24, 2016, 02:50:42 PM
Trump on himself . . .

It is amazing how often I am right, only to be criticized by the media. Illegal immigration, take the oil, build the wall, Muslims, NATO!

Jesus wept!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 24, 2016, 04:51:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 24, 2016, 02:50:42 PM
Trump on himself . . .

It is amazing how often I am right, only to be criticized by the media. Illegal immigration, take the oil, build the wall, Muslims, NATO!

Jesus wept!!

I'd say he takes advice well.

As long as it is from himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 24, 2016, 07:27:17 PM
Obama speech on the 1916 Proclamation: http://www.joe.ie/news/pic-us-president-barack-obama-paid-great-tribute-1916-proclamation/536482 (http://www.joe.ie/news/pic-us-president-barack-obama-paid-great-tribute-1916-proclamation/536482)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2016, 07:27:39 PM
Trump has no chance
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2016, 01:39:10 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkGillar/status/712516084188975105
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2016, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 23, 2016, 04:48:10 PM
Ah cmon foxy, everyone knows you're a Shinner. But please feel free now to disassociate yourself from them on the basis their liberal and socialist agenda is the opposite of yours?

But I reckon you'll continue to be the hystercial hypocrite!

He came out defending SF pretty quickly in this exchange:

Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2014, 05:20:37 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2014, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2014, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2014, 07:44:26 PM
I hope everyone gets out this weekend and shows support against these charges.

Let's stop this before it gets out of hand. We let them screw us over with the bailout and if we don't act now it will happen again.
The politicians need to be accountable for what they do and how much they plan to spend, but can't let this turn into another black hole the way it is being implemented.

No more.


This is like taking off the corner forward when you are 40 points down with a minute to go.

Too little, far, far too late.

Maybe it is too late this time but perhaps it's the wake up call the country needs to start questioning what their leaders are up to.
FF, FG, Labour need to be thrown in the bin.

Along with Sinn Féin.

Replacing Civil War politics with even earlier politics is hardly the way forward.

From my recollection SF aren't the political party that have led the people into the current mess or sold Ireland down the river.

Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Labour are GUILTY of lining their own pockets and those of their pals.

If the people are beginning to see this then at least not all is in vain. For too long people have voted because of family allegiences or because the TD is from the locality etc. Hopefully they'll now see that it doesn't matter where your representative is from, only if they are making a difference for the greater good.
If not, get rid of them.


He has a point, if he was a shinner why would he not say so? Makes no sense.

Sinn Féin are not to blame for the ill's of the south, I have never voted for them but fox has a point, I hate the way liberals try and tell you what you are, if the man has not said he is a shinner then you need to take hineat his word,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on March 25, 2016, 10:29:08 AM
Pilger would prefer Trump in the White House rather than Hilary, she must be a bad'un..

https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/ (https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:47:47 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 25, 2016, 10:29:08 AM
Pilger would prefer Trump in the White House rather than Hilary, she must be a bad'un..

https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/ (https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/)

Oh she is a bad one all right, but Trump in the white would be a disaster of epic proportions.

I have no fight in me the day, I woke up to trump attacking the wife of his rival and was disgusted, minutes later my godmother died of cancer after four bouts with that vilest of diseases,  fight away boys, I am gone for a fees days, play nice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2016, 01:52:36 PM
Trump or Hill is the clap or herpes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2016, 06:16:09 PM
Quote from: stew on March 23, 2016, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

1. Come on - Clinton is clearly talking about GOP conduct and obstructionism (this one is even worse and more pathetic than the "you didn't build that" outrage of four years ago!).
2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab? Given that conservatives are supposedly MOST worried about government costs?

You and I both know that, but will the low information voters know it?

Very similar to Romneys 47% comment. Everyone (who wanted to) knew what he meant but he didn't articulate it properly and it got twisted and turned

To me, the 47% thing was a case of Romney saying what he really thought, in what he thought was a safe place.

Similar to Obama's comment about working class whites voting against their economic interests because they "cling to their guns or religion".

So you give Bill the benefit of the doubt but not Mitt???

(Same way you're giving Harry Reid, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer the benefit of the doubt over the Supreme Court nominees)

See thats the problem, everything your/my guy says is taken out of context, while anything the opposition says truly reveals their intent-LOL

Clinton was clearly talking about the GOP. There is no other reasonable interpretation for what he said.

You'll have to explain to me how Romney was misinterpreted. To me, he was saying what he clearly thought in a situation where he could be honest, that a certain segment of the population was out of reach for him because they viewed the Democrats as more favourable in terms of government benefits. If I'm wrong, please explain how.

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That's an entitlement. The government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49... he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5–10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not

As for the supreme court, all you have for Reid, Biden, Schumer etc. is talk and threats, something politicians specialize in. NOT action. Biden, as committee chairman, gave the GOP nominees their due consideration i.e interviews, hearings, committee and then whole senate votes. The GOP are, so far, taking action. We'll see how it pans out.

Was he f**k! Its as clear as mud and all he had to was state he blamed the GOP and not Obama.

Keep making shit up as you go along and keep that liberal spin going, you are so far from reality it is beyond belief, Clinton and ohama despise each other, try have done since before the mouse was elected president, something o for with the truths about his wife and her foibles when they ran against each other eight year ago.

You're the one who is either full of shit or living in lala land stew. Hillary is running on continuing Obama's policies. What possible sense could it make for her husband to then go out and slam those same policies?

Now, if you don't believe we can all grow together again, if you don't believe we're ever going to grow again, if you believe it's more important to re-litigate the past, there may be many reasons that you don't want to support her.

But if you believe we can all rise together, if you believe we've finally come to the point where we can put the awful  legacy of the last eight years behind us and the seven years before that when we were  practicing trickle-down economics and no regulation in Washington, which is what caused the crash, then you should vote for her because she's the only person who basically had good ideas will tell you how she's going to pay for them, can be commander in chief and is a proven change maker with republicans and democrats and independents alike.

In the context of her campaign, and statements made immediately after the speech, the only reasonable interpretation of that is that he was talking about the GOP obstructionism. But go ahead and cling to your version if it makes you feel better. It certainly doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2016, 06:20:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 09:50:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 08:42:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:30:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 22, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM

2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab?

Ask for a credit card up front. Works for hotels.

And when the illegal immigrant has no credit card?

Then don't go on holidays in the first place

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Making excuses again. No valid paperwork so shouldn't be there. Should be turfed out.

You're not going to give them medical care first before they enter the process of deportation?

It's that attitude towards people breaking the law which screws things up for the legal resident.
Using public resources to which they make no contribution - takes public money and hospital space from real citizens.

I'll just do what I want and let those suckers pay for it.

If only it were true that illegals pay no tax. http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/16/Study-Finds-Illegal-Immigrants-Pay-118B-Taxes (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/16/Study-Finds-Illegal-Immigrants-Pay-118B-Taxes)

So again, are you proposing that these people be denied medical care when it's needed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2016, 06:23:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2016, 11:43:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2016, 02:44:12 AM
Deportation of 11m would cost upwards of 250bn. I can't see it happening

250BN ?? For that money you could stick a bounty for folk capturing illegals and hire out some greyhound coaches to ferry them en masse over the border once the bus is full. Trump's wall then would keep them out.
Could do it for a lot less than 250bn and the good folk of America could profit from this new occupation. Everyone wins!

Bounty hunters to round up 11 million people and their families?

No possible downside or complications can be imagined in that program! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2016, 06:25:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2016, 02:44:12 AM
Deportation of 11m would cost upwards of 250bn. I can't see it happening

Of course its not happening! Regardless of the cost. Can you imagine the logistical, bureaucratic and moral nightmare that would ensue!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2016, 06:41:22 PM
By 2040 whites will be a minority. It is fascinating that despite the genocide of the locals in the 1800 the wider local indian /mestizo population plus the ex slaves will be calling the shots.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2016, 07:23:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2016, 06:41:22 PM
By 2040 whites will be a minority. It is fascinating that despite the genocide of the locals in the 1800 the wider local indian /mestizo population plus the ex slaves will be calling the shots.
[/quote. That should be a happy day for the self hating white liberals
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2016, 07:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2016, 07:23:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2016, 06:41:22 PM
By 2040 whites will be a minority. It is fascinating that despite the genocide of the locals in the 1800 the wider local indian /mestizo population plus the ex slaves will be calling the shots.
. That should be a happy day for the self hating white liberals

So not having a problem with or any concerns about whites slipping into minority status in the US makes one a self-hater?

Or is that the recognition and acknowledgement, by modern white people, that some aspects of white societal treatment of various groups, including in the US, was shameful and still has residual effects, that is problematic?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 25, 2016, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:20:06 AM

He has a point, if he was a shinner why would he not say so? Makes no sense.

Sinn Féin are not to blame for the ill's of the south, I have never voted for them but fox has a point, I hate the way liberals try and tell you what you are, if the man has not said he is a shinner then you need to take hineat his word,

Post of the decade!!!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 25, 2016, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2016, 06:16:09 PM
Quote from: stew on March 23, 2016, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

1. Come on - Clinton is clearly talking about GOP conduct and obstructionism (this one is even worse and more pathetic than the "you didn't build that" outrage of four years ago!).
2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab? Given that conservatives are supposedly MOST worried about government costs?

You and I both know that, but will the low information voters know it?

Very similar to Romneys 47% comment. Everyone (who wanted to) knew what he meant but he didn't articulate it properly and it got twisted and turned

To me, the 47% thing was a case of Romney saying what he really thought, in what he thought was a safe place.

Similar to Obama's comment about working class whites voting against their economic interests because they "cling to their guns or religion".

So you give Bill the benefit of the doubt but not Mitt???

(Same way you're giving Harry Reid, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer the benefit of the doubt over the Supreme Court nominees)

See thats the problem, everything your/my guy says is taken out of context, while anything the opposition says truly reveals their intent-LOL

Clinton was clearly talking about the GOP. There is no other reasonable interpretation for what he said.

You'll have to explain to me how Romney was misinterpreted. To me, he was saying what he clearly thought in a situation where he could be honest, that a certain segment of the population was out of reach for him because they viewed the Democrats as more favourable in terms of government benefits. If I'm wrong, please explain how.

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That's an entitlement. The government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49... he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5–10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not

As for the supreme court, all you have for Reid, Biden, Schumer etc. is talk and threats, something politicians specialize in. NOT action. Biden, as committee chairman, gave the GOP nominees their due consideration i.e interviews, hearings, committee and then whole senate votes. The GOP are, so far, taking action. We'll see how it pans out.

Was he f**k! Its as clear as mud and all he had to was state he blamed the GOP and not Obama.

Keep making shit up as you go along and keep that liberal spin going, you are so far from reality it is beyond belief, Clinton and ohama despise each other, try have done since before the mouse was elected president, something o for with the truths about his wife and her foibles when they ran against each other eight year ago.

You're the one who is either full of shit or living in lala land stew. Hillary is running on continuing Obama's policies. What possible sense could it make for her husband to then go out and slam those same policies?

Now, if you don't believe we can all grow together again, if you don't believe we're ever going to grow again, if you believe it's more important to re-litigate the past, there may be many reasons that you don't want to support her.

But if you believe we can all rise together, if you believe we've finally come to the point where we can put the awful  legacy of the last eight years behind us and the seven years before that when we were  practicing trickle-down economics and no regulation in Washington, which is what caused the crash, then you should vote for her because she's the only person who basically had good ideas will tell you how she's going to pay for them, can be commander in chief and is a proven change maker with republicans and democrats and independents alike.

In the context of her campaign, and statements made immediately after the speech, the only reasonable interpretation of that is that he was talking about the GOP obstructionism. But go ahead and cling to your version if it makes you feel better. It certainly doesn't make any sense.

So Chelsea AND bubba go after Obama and you still  ignore what is in front of your nose, this is exactly why you people should not be let near a position of power.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 25, 2016, 08:55:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 25, 2016, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:20:06 AM

He has a point, if he was a shinner why would he not say so? Makes no sense.

Sinn Féin are not to blame for the ill's of the south, I have never voted for them but fox has a point, I hate the way liberals try and tell you what you are, if the man has not said he is a shinner then you need to take hineat his word,

Post of the decade!!!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


And of course Gerry was never in the Ra........because he said so ;D
I wonder how the Irish illegals will feel when they are dumped in Mexico under Foxeejit's plan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2016, 09:02:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 25, 2016, 08:55:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 25, 2016, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:20:06 AM

He has a point, if he was a shinner why would he not say so? Makes no sense.

Sinn Féin are not to blame for the ill's of the south, I have never voted for them but fox has a point, I hate the way liberals try and tell you what you are, if the man has not said he is a shinner then you need to take hineat his word,

Post of the decade!!!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


And of course Gerry was never in the Ra........because he said so ;D
I wonder how the Irish illegals will feel when they are dumped in Mexico under Foxeejit's plan.
say tr**p won and asked the taoiseach to pay for the deportation of the irish illegals. Why would ireland pay?Surely the individuals would be liable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2016, 11:16:34 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
it is abject
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2016, 12:28:23 AM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2016, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2016, 06:16:09 PM
Quote from: stew on March 23, 2016, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
What the hell is getting into the Clintons?

They seem to be losing the plot completely

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/rivals-seize-on-bill-clintons-remarks-about-obamas-last-eight-years/?_r=0

http://www.inquisitr.com/2907196/chelsea-clinton-says-hillary-clinton-wants-obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-video/

1. Come on - Clinton is clearly talking about GOP conduct and obstructionism (this one is even worse and more pathetic than the "you didn't build that" outrage of four years ago!).
2. Would Obamacare coverage for illegals NOT be better than the current situation where they go to casualty for any and all care and leave the state with the (expensive) tab? Given that conservatives are supposedly MOST worried about government costs?

You and I both know that, but will the low information voters know it?

Very similar to Romneys 47% comment. Everyone (who wanted to) knew what he meant but he didn't articulate it properly and it got twisted and turned

To me, the 47% thing was a case of Romney saying what he really thought, in what he thought was a safe place.

Similar to Obama's comment about working class whites voting against their economic interests because they "cling to their guns or religion".

So you give Bill the benefit of the doubt but not Mitt???

(Same way you're giving Harry Reid, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer the benefit of the doubt over the Supreme Court nominees)

See thats the problem, everything your/my guy says is taken out of context, while anything the opposition says truly reveals their intent-LOL

Clinton was clearly talking about the GOP. There is no other reasonable interpretation for what he said.

You'll have to explain to me how Romney was misinterpreted. To me, he was saying what he clearly thought in a situation where he could be honest, that a certain segment of the population was out of reach for him because they viewed the Democrats as more favourable in terms of government benefits. If I'm wrong, please explain how.

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That's an entitlement. The government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49... he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5–10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not

As for the supreme court, all you have for Reid, Biden, Schumer etc. is talk and threats, something politicians specialize in. NOT action. Biden, as committee chairman, gave the GOP nominees their due consideration i.e interviews, hearings, committee and then whole senate votes. The GOP are, so far, taking action. We'll see how it pans out.

Was he f**k! Its as clear as mud and all he had to was state he blamed the GOP and not Obama.

Keep making shit up as you go along and keep that liberal spin going, you are so far from reality it is beyond belief, Clinton and ohama despise each other, try have done since before the mouse was elected president, something o for with the truths about his wife and her foibles when they ran against each other eight year ago.

You're the one who is either full of shit or living in lala land stew. Hillary is running on continuing Obama's policies. What possible sense could it make for her husband to then go out and slam those same policies?

Now, if you don't believe we can all grow together again, if you don't believe we're ever going to grow again, if you believe it's more important to re-litigate the past, there may be many reasons that you don't want to support her.

But if you believe we can all rise together, if you believe we've finally come to the point where we can put the awful  legacy of the last eight years behind us and the seven years before that when we were  practicing trickle-down economics and no regulation in Washington, which is what caused the crash, then you should vote for her because she's the only person who basically had good ideas will tell you how she's going to pay for them, can be commander in chief and is a proven change maker with republicans and democrats and independents alike.

In the context of her campaign, and statements made immediately after the speech, the only reasonable interpretation of that is that he was talking about the GOP obstructionism. But go ahead and cling to your version if it makes you feel better. It certainly doesn't make any sense.

So Chelsea AND bubba go after Obama and you stillnignore what is in front of your nose, this is exactly why you people should not be let near a position if powerlev
s level

So here is what Chelsea Clinton is quoted as saying by a number of conservative sources:

And, kind of figuring out whether she could do that through executive action, or she would need to do that through tax credits working with Congress,' Chelsea Clinton said.
'She thinks either of those will help solve the challenges of kind of the crushing costs that still exist  for too many people, who even are part of the Affordable Care Act and buying insurance

Its a fair point and it's criticism, but its hardly an egregious attack on Obamacare. No one has said it is perfect or that it would solve all the issues regarding ridiculous health care costs in the US, especially given the ludicrous, partisan opposition from the GOP and the refusal of many GOP governors to extend Medicaid coverage in their states. Its not as if Chelsea is saying to scrap Obamacare or advocating the GOP policy of...well... whatever it is they'll eventually come up with. She's advocating policies they're trying to sell as improving it.

And of course you ignore previous occasions when Chelsea Clinton has gone after Bernie Sanders for allegedly intending to get rid of Obamacare, while Hillary herself said the following a few weeks back:

As president, I'll defend the Affordable Care Act, build on its successes, and go even further to reduce costs. My plan will crack down on drug companies charging excessive prices, slow the growth of out-of-pocket costs, and provide a new credit to those facing high health expenses.

So maybe you should worry less about what you imagine is in front of your nose and look at the wider picture once in a while. You know, context?! Obama's favourability numbers are rising as the primaries play out and people look at the Cruz-Trump circus. Hillary has, to date, pledged to basically administer a third Obama term. It makes zero sense that the Clinton campaign would all of a sudden do a u-turn and run on "the two Obama terms were a disaster", especially when she was secretary of state for the first one!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on March 26, 2016, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.

By attacking the other wife in return? Is that manly in your view? Interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2016, 12:38:29 AM
Quote from: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.

If Trump is a plant, then conservatives are the biggest morons ever to walk the planet! ;D

But, as much as I dislike his politics, Cruz is absolutely correct in much of what he says about Trump, and completely justified in his reaction to some of the below the belt shit coming from Trump this week.

Hopefully Trump's misogny will be remembered come November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 27, 2016, 03:08:39 AM
J70, though Cruz is justified in his reaction to this week's below-the-belt mysoginistic comments, it has to be said that he kept quiet and sucked up to Trump when he should have been reprimanding him for his remarks about Megyn Kelly and Carly Fiorina and all the other despicable things he said about women.  Selective outrage. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2016, 06:18:26 AM
Bernie notched up 2 wins in Washington state and alaska. Clinton should be doing way better. She is missing something. Maybe cos she is too close to Wall St.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 27, 2016, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 26, 2016, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.

By attacking the other wife in return? Is that manly in your view? Interesting.

I was referring to the fact that Cruz called him a sniveling ciward, which he is, also get your facts straight for once, Cruz had nothing to do with the nude picture of trumps wife being posted online.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 27, 2016, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2016, 06:18:26 AM
Bernie notched up 2 wins in Washington state and alaska. Clinton should be doing way better. She is missing something. Maybe cos she is too close to Wall St.

Nope, the people know her for the odious, toe jam piece of crap that she is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 27, 2016, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 26, 2016, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.

By attacking the other wife in return? Is that manly in your view? Interesting.

You are so arrogant you ask and answer your own question to me, never put words in my mouth and there is nothing manly about hurting a woman in any way, shape or form, is that interesting enough for you gallbladder?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on March 27, 2016, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: stew on March 27, 2016, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 26, 2016, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.

By attacking the other wife in return? Is that manly in your view? Interesting.

You are so arrogant you ask and answer your own question to me, never put words in my mouth and there is nothing manly about hurting a woman in any way, shape or form, is that interesting enough for you gallbladder?

Except when it's Hilary Clinton though, yeah?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 27, 2016, 12:34:48 PM
Quote from: stew on March 27, 2016, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 26, 2016, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.

By attacking the other wife in return? Is that manly in your view? Interesting.

You are so arrogant you ask and answer your own question to me, never put words in my mouth and there is nothing manly about hurting a woman in any way, shape or form, is that interesting enough for you gallbladder?

Has to be post of the year... Did you see what you posted 10 minutes prior to the above??

Hurting women isn't OK but f**k Hillary Clinton. What the f**k does conservative mean anymore if this is the kind of shit you guys pull??!!

God this and god that but f**k off Muslims, Mexicans and Hillary. Jesus would be so proud of his followers right now  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2016, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: stew on March 27, 2016, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2016, 06:18:26 AM
Bernie notched up 2 wins in Washington state and alaska. Clinton should be doing way better. She is missing something. Maybe cos she is too close to Wall St.

Nope, the people know her for the odious, toe jam piece of crap that she is.
Could be. She is almost as odious as Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 27, 2016, 03:49:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2016, 12:34:48 PM
Quote from: stew on March 27, 2016, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 26, 2016, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.

Stew there is no one on this board more guilty of what Stew accuses everyone of than Stew. It is hilarious at this stage.

By attacking the other wife in return? Is that manly in your view? Interesting.

You are so arrogant you ask and answer your own question to me, never put words in my mouth and there is nothing manly about hurting a woman in any way, shape or form, is that interesting enough for you gallbladder?

Has to be post of the year... Did you see what you posted 10 minutes prior to the above??

Hurting women isn't OK but f**k Hillary Clinton. What the f**k does conservative mean anymore if this is the kind of shit you guys pull??!!

God this and god that but f**k off Muslims, Mexicans and Hillary. Jesus would be so proud of his followers right now  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2016, 12:53:51 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 27, 2016, 03:08:39 AM
J70, though Cruz is justified in his reaction to this week's below-the-belt mysoginistic comments, it has to be said that he kept quiet and sucked up to Trump when he should have been reprimanding him for his remarks about Megyn Kelly and Carly Fiorina and all the other despicable things he said about women.  Selective outrage.

Absolutely fair point. It suited Cruz, at the time, and before Trump turned his attention towards him, to remain silent while Trump went after others with his school yard bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 28, 2016, 05:57:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpppsy2xG0M
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on March 28, 2016, 09:16:33 AM

Interesting. Given Sanders' momentum is coming so late in the day but appears very strong and sustainable,  is it possible he could still stand independently? That's assuming he doesn't get the democratic nomination of course. Nader's predictions seem entirely inevitable when you take a step back.

Assuming bernie is not electable in modern America I would prefer Clinton only because I see no other viable candidate.

Leaving aside party politics,  has there ever been a worse collection of runners for the Republican nomination? Was there noone centre left in the democratic party that could have challenged Clinton and secured support of democratic king makers?

It has looked from a long way out that the democratic party would not countenance a serious challenge to Clinton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 28, 2016, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2016, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: stew on March 27, 2016, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 26, 2016, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.

By attacking the other wife in return? Is that manly in your view? Interesting.

You are so arrogant you ask and answer your own question to me, never put words in my mouth and there is nothing manly about hurting a woman in any way, shape or form, is that interesting enough for you gallbladder?

Except when it's Hilary Clinton though, yeah?
I despise Clinton but i would never condone hurting her in any way, so nay to yeah bladder, thanks for trying though. 😉
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 28, 2016, 10:58:35 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 28, 2016, 09:16:33 AM

Interesting. Given Sanders' momentum is coming so late in the day but appears very strong and sustainable,  is it possible he could still stand independently? That's assuming he doesn't get the democratic nomination of course. Nader's predictions seem entirely inevitable when you take a step back.

Assuming bernie is not electable in modern America I would prefer Clinton only because I see no other viable candidate.

Leaving aside party politics,  has there ever been a worse collection of runners for the Republican nomination? Was there noone centre left in the democratic party that could have challenged Clinton and secured support of democratic king makers?

It has looked from a long way out that the democratic party would not countenance a serious challenge to Clinton.

There is not one viable candidate, period end of.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 28, 2016, 11:05:21 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 27, 2016, 03:08:39 AM
J70, though Cruz is justified in his reaction to this week's below-the-belt mysoginistic comments, it has to be said that he kept quiet and sucked up to Trump when he should have been reprimanding him for his remarks about Megyn Kelly and Carly Fiorina and all the other despicable things he said about women.  Selective outrage.

In fairness he was not married to either of those ladies and Trump attacked the mother of his children, it was a political decision to say nothing, I don't agree with it but he is a politician after all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 28, 2016, 11:13:24 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2016, 12:34:48 PM
Quote from: stew on March 27, 2016, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 26, 2016, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: stew on March 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Now the conservative front-runners are beating each other up using their wives as clubs. Pathetic. Utterly utterly pathetic.
2


Trump is no conservative and you know it, Cruz reacted to your plant attacking his wife, as would any man you dolt.

By attacking the other wife in return? Is that manly in your view? Interesting.

You are so arrogant you ask and answer your own question to me, never put words in my mouth and there is nothing manly about hurting a woman in any way, shape or form, is that interesting enough for you gallbladder?

Has to be post of the year... Did you see what you posted 10 minutes prior to the above??

Hurting women isn't OK but f**k Hillary Clinton. What the f**k does conservative mean anymore if this is the kind of shit you guys pull??!!

God this and god that but f**k off Muslims, Mexicans and Hillary. Jesus would be so proud of his followers right now  ::) ::) ::)

Who said the Muslims and Mexicans should f**k off?

You liberals are some shower, if a law does not suit you simply ignore it.

What is so wrong with wanting the law of the land to be upheld?

I am fine with Muslims and Hispanics coming into the country if they are legally entitled to, same goes for the Irish, Chinese and Nigerians etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2016, 12:27:43 PM
Quote from: stew on March 28, 2016, 11:05:21 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 27, 2016, 03:08:39 AM
J70, though Cruz is justified in his reaction to this week's below-the-belt mysoginistic comments, it has to be said that he kept quiet and sucked up to Trump when he should have been reprimanding him for his remarks about Megyn Kelly and Carly Fiorina and all the other despicable things he said about women.  Selective outrage.

In fairness he was not married to either of those ladies and Trump attacked the mother of his children, it was a political decision to say nothing, I don't agree with it but he is a politician after all.

Yep. Cruz made a calculated decision to "be nice" to Trump back then. It was still the perceived wisdom that Trump would eventually flame out, so Cruz wanted to keep Trump's supporters onside so that he could sweep in and coopt them once Trump was done. Which was all good, from Cruz's perspective, until Trump didn't flame out, but instead started attacking Cruz.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 28, 2016, 01:58:10 PM
This Washington Post interview is ...... something

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/03/21/a-transcript-of-donald-trumps-meeting-with-the-washington-post-editorial-board/?tid=pm_pop_b

QuoteHIATT: But just – given the Supreme Court rulings on libel — Sullivan v. New York Times — how would you change the law?

TRUMP: I would just loosen them up.

RUTH MARCUS: What does that mean?

[Crosstalk]

TRUMP: I'd have to get my lawyers in to tell you, but I would loosen them up. I would loosen them up. If The Washington Post writes badly about me – and they do, they don't write good – I mean, I don't think I get – I read some of the stories coming up here, and I said to my staff, I said, "Why are we even wasting our time? The hatred is so enormous." I don't know why. I mean, I do a good job. I have thousands of employees. I work hard.

RYAN: The reason I keep asking this is because you've said three times you've said we are going to open up the libel laws and when we ask you what you mean you say hatred, or bad–

TRUMP: I want to make it more fair from the side where I am, because things are said that are libelous, things are said about me that are so egregious and so wrong, and right now according to the libel laws I can do almost nothing about it because I'm a well-known person you know, etc., etc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 28, 2016, 04:23:26 PM
Mencken had a quote about the US elections being perfected so that one day the president would be a downright moron.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2016, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 28, 2016, 04:23:26 PM
Mencken had a quote about the US elections being perfected so that one day the president would be a downright moron.

It already happened in 2001, and we'll be dealing with this consequences for a generation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2016, 09:50:34 PM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/03/26/maher_mocks_emory_university_students_offended_by_pro-trump_message_i_want_to_dropkick_these_kids.html


lol-Emory students traumatized b someone writing Trump in chalk on the sidewalk. I read somewhere that some of rhem needed counseling. I don't wish anyone harm but I'd love to drop this privileged fvckers off somewhere on the South side of Chicago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on March 28, 2016, 10:00:13 PM
Cant believe Trump as got as far as he has, probably cant believe it himself.
The GOP, the party of complex political ideologies such as neo cons, libertarians, and the paleocons have been usurped by a Daily Mail populist. There always was a strong suspicion that the most,or at least a healthy minority of their voters where just tabloid level voters and Trump has just confirmed it.

Almost as surprised as Clinton showing with Blacks and Mexicans, are they voting along race lines? As in.... old white guy Sanders? No way....vs.... Oh Obama's friend Hillary? I'll vote for her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 29, 2016, 01:25:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2016, 09:50:34 PM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/03/26/maher_mocks_emory_university_students_offended_by_pro-trump_message_i_want_to_dropkick_these_kids.html


lol-Emory students traumatized b someone writing Trump in chalk on the sidewalk. I read somewhere that some of rhem needed counseling. I don't wish anyone harm but I'd love to drop this privileged fvckers off somewhere on the South side of Chicago

Why is a supposed reaction, to an alleged piece of graffiti, on a 'sidewalk', in a college that most people have never heard of........actually.......never mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 29, 2016, 06:21:24 AM
A lot of white people in the US south , the so called rednecks,  are descended from Ulster protestant migrants who turned up in the 1700s. They have certain characteristics in common with their cousins up North

-education difficulties. Loyalists are way behind catholics when it comes to university access. Huge numbers of Trump fans come from Ulster stock and are not educated either. It doesn't come from the sky.

-Vulnerability to demagogues. Donald, meet Mr Paisley

-Related to points 1 and 2  . Belief that they are God's people

they are 2 very lost tribes


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 29, 2016, 08:27:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2016, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 28, 2016, 04:23:26 PM
Mencken had a quote about the US elections being perfected so that one day the president would be a downright moron.

It already happened in 2001, and we'll be dealing with this consequences for a generation.

Do not forget the idiot of the past seven plus years, his legacy is debt, weakness and ineptitude,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on March 29, 2016, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on March 29, 2016, 08:27:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2016, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 28, 2016, 04:23:26 PM
Mencken had a quote about the US elections being perfected so that one day the president would be a downright moron.

It already happened in 2001, and we'll be dealing with this consequences for a generation.

Do not forget the idiot of the past seven plus years, his legacy is debt, weakness and ineptitude,

You can argue Obama was a charlatan, mean principled, machiavelian etc. and produce evidence to support that but he's obviously not a moron. Bush was a moron, no question.

I am beginning to think that the presidency is a figurehead role only anyway. The background forces seem to drive policy and decision making in America, irrespective of which party is controlling the white house or what the traits of the incumbant are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on March 29, 2016, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 29, 2016, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on March 29, 2016, 08:27:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2016, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 28, 2016, 04:23:26 PM
Mencken had a quote about the US elections being perfected so that one day the president would be a downright moron.

It already happened in 2001, and we'll be dealing with this consequences for a generation.

Do not forget the idiot of the past seven plus years, his legacy is debt, weakness and ineptitude,

You can argue Obama was a charlatan, mean principled, machiavelian etc. and produce evidence to support that but he's obviously not a moron. Bush was a moron, no question.

I am beginning to think that the presidency is a figurehead role only anyway. The background forces seem to drive policy and decision making in America, irrespective of which party is controlling the white house or what the traits of the incumbant are.

Obama is currently the world's second most popular leader, after the Pope.

https://news.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrC0CYNdPpWMQQA6ETQtDMD;_ylc=X1MDNTM3MjAyNzIEX3IDMgRmcgNhYXBsdwRncHJpZANsX2E3ZU9Uc1F2Q0I5M1NBb0JZQURBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMwBG9yaWdpbgNuZXdzLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMEcXN0cmwDMjMEcXVlcnkDb2JhbWEgd29ybGQgbGVhZGVyIHBvbGwEdF9zdG1wAzE0NTkyNTQzMDE-?p=obama+world+leader+poll&fr2=sb-top-news.search&fr=aaplw&type=pivot_us_srp_yahoonews (https://news.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrC0CYNdPpWMQQA6ETQtDMD;_ylc=X1MDNTM3MjAyNzIEX3IDMgRmcgNhYXBsdwRncHJpZANsX2E3ZU9Uc1F2Q0I5M1NBb0JZQURBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMwBG9yaWdpbgNuZXdzLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMEcXN0cmwDMjMEcXVlcnkDb2JhbWEgd29ybGQgbGVhZGVyIHBvbGwEdF9zdG1wAzE0NTkyNTQzMDE-?p=obama+world+leader+poll&fr2=sb-top-news.search&fr=aaplw&type=pivot_us_srp_yahoonews)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 29, 2016, 06:04:50 PM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:20:06 AM
He has a point, if he was a shinner why would he not say so? Makes no sense.

Sinn Féin are not to blame for the ill's of the south, I have never voted for them but fox has a point, I hate the way liberals try and tell you what you are, if the man has not said he is a shinner then you need to take hineat his word,

The liberals feel the need to categorise you to discredit your views.
So you can't be a Fine Gael supporter and disagree with water charges?

It's this sort of backwards thinking that has the country in the mess it's in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on March 29, 2016, 07:10:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 29, 2016, 06:04:50 PM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:20:06 AM
He has a point, if he was a shinner why would he not say so? Makes no sense.

Sinn Féin are not to blame for the ill's of the south, I have never voted for them but fox has a point, I hate the way liberals try and tell you what you are, if the man has not said he is a shinner then you need to take hineat his word,

The liberals feel the need to categorise you to discredit your views.
So you can't be a Fine Gael supporter and disagree with water charges?

It's this sort of backwards thinking that has the country in the mess it's in.
Although I generally disagree with your two's politics I have to agree with this. I was on the recieving end of it at the weekend when we had a discussion about a few topics and I was suddenly a Republican policymaker ::)

There is nothing more irritating than being on the receiving end of guilt by association, as it is an extremely effective way of appealing to fear of assocaition, just another form of playing the man at the end of the day.

Here is a bit of news just because someone else said the same thing does not make it incorrect. Attack the point not the man and if someone has a different opinion to you try to find out why rather than just declare it wrong for some fallacious reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 30, 2016, 09:36:28 AM
Works both ways Joe - a lot of research has come out on how Republicans devised ways of demonizing certain words, most notably "liberal", through a method of always associating it with words like "weak" and "pathetic". And this was deliberately done - Republicans understood language a lot more effectively in some ways than the Dems. But now you see the end result - someone like Trump can say what he likes, and when criticized, all he has to do is call the critic a "liberal" or "politically correct", and the Republican listener/voter automatically discounts the point of the criticism (not all republicans obviously, but a working majority of primary voters so far)

Don't get me wrong, I do think that a lot of the stuff that I'm reading about campus PC campaigns are going too far (although I am a supporter of being "politically correct" ie polite) - but I'd put that down a lot to the exuberance/foolishness of youth. The Republican strategy, on the other hand, was deliberate and backed by a major broadcasting network - still is.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 30, 2016, 10:47:01 AM
I'm always interested to hear Chomsky's views on things in the US - here's his take on the GOP

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/35402-noam-chomsky-the-republican-base-is-out-of-control (http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/35402-noam-chomsky-the-republican-base-is-out-of-control)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 30, 2016, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 29, 2016, 06:04:50 PM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:20:06 AM
He has a point, if he was a shinner why would he not say so? Makes no sense.

Sinn Féin are not to blame for the ill's of the south, I have never voted for them but fox has a point, I hate the way liberals try and tell you what you are, if the man has not said he is a shinner then you need to take hineat his word,

The liberals feel the need to categorise you to discredit your views.
So you can't be a Fine Gael supporter and disagree with water charges?

It's this sort of backwards thinking that has the country in the mess it's in.
Similar to OmaghJoe (cant really shorten it to OJ in a US discussion) I hate to see the lazy guilt by association.
Any political movement or party is made up of a group of people with similar (not necessarily identical ideals) and should function as a sub-democracy of the greater democracy. Just as there is room in a democracy for dissent there should be room within the sub-democracy of the movement. A member should be able to disagree with a policy but go along with the will of the majority for the greater good.

It is the movements which show no dissent that I fear the most.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 30, 2016, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2016, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 29, 2016, 06:04:50 PM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:20:06 AM
He has a point, if he was a shinner why would he not say so? Makes no sense.

Sinn Féin are not to blame for the ill's of the south, I have never voted for them but fox has a point, I hate the way liberals try and tell you what you are, if the man has not said he is a shinner then you need to take hineat his word,

The liberals feel the need to categorise you to discredit your views.
So you can't be a Fine Gael supporter and disagree with water charges?

It's this sort of backwards thinking that has the country in the mess it's in.
Similar to OmaghJoe (cant really shorten it to OJ in a US discussion) I hate to see the lazy guilt by association.
Any political movement or party is made up of a group of people with similar (not necessarily identical ideals) and should function as a sub-democracy of the greater democracy. Just as there is room in a democracy for dissent there should be room within the sub-democracy of the movement. A member should be able to disagree with a policy but go along with the will of the majority for the greater good.

It is the movements which show no dissent that I fear the most.
Not sure what you're going on about.
Foxy has not said he's not a Shinner.
Although you'd presume he's not, given his right wing political views are the opposite of Sinn Fein's
Perhaps he will take the opportunity now to clarify that he does in fact despise Sinn Fein and their liberal agenda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 30, 2016, 12:37:09 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 30, 2016, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2016, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 29, 2016, 06:04:50 PM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2016, 10:20:06 AM
He has a point, if he was a shinner why would he not say so? Makes no sense.

Sinn Féin are not to blame for the ill's of the south, I have never voted for them but fox has a point, I hate the way liberals try and tell you what you are, if the man has not said he is a shinner then you need to take hineat his word,

The liberals feel the need to categorise you to discredit your views.
So you can't be a Fine Gael supporter and disagree with water charges?

It's this sort of backwards thinking that has the country in the mess it's in.
Similar to OmaghJoe (cant really shorten it to OJ in a US discussion) I hate to see the lazy guilt by association.
Any political movement or party is made up of a group of people with similar (not necessarily identical ideals) and should function as a sub-democracy of the greater democracy. Just as there is room in a democracy for dissent there should be room within the sub-democracy of the movement. A member should be able to disagree with a policy but go along with the will of the majority for the greater good.

It is the movements which show no dissent that I fear the most.
Not sure what you're going on about.
Foxy has not said he's not a Shinner.
Although you'd presume he's not, given his right wing political views are the opposite of Sinn Fein's
Perhaps he will take the opportunity now to clarify that he does in fact despise Sinn Fein and their liberal agenda.
I am not arguing with him!
I am agreeing with his point that it is possible to support a party without espousing everything that party stands for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 31, 2016, 09:45:43 AM
Trump caught out badly flip flopping on jailing women who seek an abortion.

Surely this is going to be the theme from now on as we move to a General Election. He's going to have to start moving to the centre at some stage to win the White House but will this see his grassroots disappear??!!

Whatever about how heinous he is and catastrophic it would be for him to be in the White House it is an interesting race there's no doubt about that!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 31, 2016, 10:33:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 31, 2016, 09:45:43 AM
Trump caught out badly flip flopping on jailing women who seek an abortion.

Surely this is going to be the theme from now on as we move to a General Election. He's going to have to start moving to the centre at some stage to win the White House but will this see his grassroots disappear??!!

Whatever about how heinous he is and catastrophic it would be for him to be in the White House it is an interesting race there's no doubt about that!
I think it was "made a complete balls up, then tried to fix it" rather than "flip flopping"!

I'd say "I'm like Ronald Reagan" is a mantra we'll hear Trump repeat a lot between now and the end.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hereiam on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Is America looking at its first female president
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 31, 2016, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Is America looking at its first female president

I don't see how she can mess it up from here... y'know unless she goes to jail for the email thing!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on March 31, 2016, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 31, 2016, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Is America looking at its first female president

I don't see how she can mess it up from here... y'know unless she goes to jail for the email thing!

Hillary 2/5
Donald 7/2

Paddy knows.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 31, 2016, 12:12:55 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Is America looking at its first female president

Through its fingers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2016, 12:24:04 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 31, 2016, 09:45:43 AM
Trump caught out badly flip flopping on jailing women who seek an abortion.

Surely this is going to be the theme from now on as we move to a General Election. He's going to have to start moving to the centre at some stage to win the White House but will this see his grassroots disappear??!!

Whatever about how heinous he is and catastrophic it would be for him to be in the White House it is an interesting race there's no doubt about that!

Bad week for "The Donald". First, his campaign manager gets charged with assault on the Breitbart reporter, with the video proving Trump a liar. Then Trump hilariously tries to say the video proves HIM right and that the woman (a reporter) was holding a deadly weapon (a pen). So first, she was never touched, but then Lewandowski grabbing her was justified because she might have killed Trump! ;D

Then the abortion thing yesterday, which he had to very quickly disavow.

Of course the "Trump tells it like it is" morons will see all this as only further evidence of how he will " make America great again".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2016, 12:47:12 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 31, 2016, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 31, 2016, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Is America looking at its first female president

I don't see how she can mess it up from here... y'know unless she goes to jail for the email thing!

Hillary 2/5
Donald 7/2

Paddy knows.

Leicester City 5000/1

Paddy is a spoofer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on March 31, 2016, 12:54:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2016, 12:47:12 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 31, 2016, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 31, 2016, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Is America looking at its first female president

I don't see how she can mess it up from here... y'know unless she goes to jail for the email thing!

Hillary 2/5
Donald 7/2

Paddy knows.

Leicester City 5000/1

Paddy is a spoofer

£2.5 Billion. Spoofer indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on March 31, 2016, 01:30:55 PM
What odds is Bernie?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on March 31, 2016, 01:50:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 31, 2016, 01:30:55 PM
What odds is Bernie?

12/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 31, 2016, 01:57:06 PM
I see Jeb Bush is 540/1 on Betfair. I'm going to have a wee flutter. It could well be a contested convention. Even if it's not, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rep. grandees tweak the rules to stymie Trump. In either case, all sorts of people come into play, not just the remaining candidates at the end of the primaries. A return to the Bush dynasty might well be exactly the recipe to calm the troubled waters.

At least I don't think it's as unlikely as 540/1.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2016, 03:05:36 PM
If there is to be a saviour or knight in shining armour, Paul Ryan will be the man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 31, 2016, 03:10:59 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 31, 2016, 01:57:06 PM
I see Jeb Bush is 540/1 on Betfair. I'm going to have a wee flutter. It could well be a contested convention. Even if it's not, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rep. grandees tweak the rules to stymie Trump. In either case, all sorts of people come into play, not just the remaining candidates at the end of the primaries. A return to the Bush dynasty might well be exactly the recipe to calm the troubled waters.

At least I don't think it's as unlikely as 540/1.

Throwing money away there Hardy - Ryan will be the unity candidate as J70 says.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 31, 2016, 03:29:07 PM
While the charade of the election takes over the media behind the scenes it's the same old story:


As tensions continue to escalate between Russia and the West, the Pentagon has announced plans to deploy U.S. troops, armed with modern equipment and heavy artillery, full time along NATO's eastern borders.

The so-called "European Reassurance Initiative," will be the first such deployment since the Cold War ended, The Wall Street Journal reported. Its purpose: To deter Russian aggression while serving to reassure Western allies of U.S. commitment to the region.

General Philip Breedlove, the top U.S. commander in Europe, announced the plan on Wednesday, calling it a "strong and balanced approach to reassuring our NATO Allies and partners in the wake of an aggressive Russia in Eastern Europe and elsewhere."

"Our allies and partners will see more capability," he said in a statement. "They will see a more frequent presence of an armored brigade with more modernized equipment in their countries."

The new proposal would put an additional U.S. armored brigade in Europe, specifically along NATO's eastern flank. The brigade, which typically comprises about 4,200 soldiers and hundreds of heavy vehicles, tanks and other equipment, will rotate in on a continual basis, and will be divided across six countries: Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria.

Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, the commander of U.S. Army Europe, said the proposal would create "a constant presence of U.S. forces along NATO's eastern border."

"There will be American equipment and people in each of these countries," Hodges told the Journal. "We will have the flexibility to converge the entire brigade for exercises and that is an important part of the deterrence, to show a warfighting capability."

Slated to start in February 2017, the plan will increase the number of U.S. combat brigades in Europe to three. Currently, there are approximately 62,000 U.S. military forces, including a reported 25,000 Army soldiers, permanently based in the continent.

According to Pentagon spokeswoman Laura Seal, the proposal will also allow for the U.S. to bring in more advanced equipment to eastern Europe.

"This will be the most modernized equipment the Army has to offer, and will, over the next year, replace the less modern training equipment we put in Europe over the last few years," Seal told AP.
The new gear will reportedly include 250 tanks, Bradley Fighting Vehicles, Paladin self-propelled howitzers and more than 1,700 additional wheeled vehicles.

According to Mashable, the Pentagon requested $3.4 billion in February for the initiative, after the White House gave the go-ahead. Congress, however, still must approve the request.

Relations between the Kremlin and the West have been particularly strained since Russia's annexation of the Crimean Peninsula in 2014, and its subsequent military actions in Ukraine. Just this week, the mounting tension was highlighted again when Russian President Vladimir Putin said he would boycott the Nuclear Security Summit in Washington.

"Russia's decision to certainly not participate at a high level we believe is a missed opportunity for Russia above all," Ben Rhodes, deputy national security adviser to the White House National Security Council, told reporters on Tuesday. "Frankly, all they're doing is isolating themselves."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 01, 2016, 10:24:55 AM
Looks like Trump is facing the rockiest stint in his campaign right now it will be interesting to see how Wisconsin goes after this, polls are showing he's taken a big hit for his abortion comments!

Somehow he managed to get the Pro-Life and Pro-Choicers to band together in their hatred of him. That is an achievement in itself!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Billys Boots on April 01, 2016, 11:17:11 AM
QuoteSomehow he managed to get the Pro-Life and Pro-Choicers to band together in their hatred of him. That is an achievement in itself!

He'd make a great unity candidate.  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on April 01, 2016, 11:17:11 AM
QuoteSomehow he managed to get the Pro-Life and Pro-Choicers to band together in their hatred of him. That is an achievement in itself!

He'd make a great unity candidate.  :P

Have to say I love Trump. I wouldn't agree with him on anything but his non pc attitude is so refreshing. Speaks his mind and doesn't hide behind spoof and bluster. He thinks abortion is wrong so any woman who does it should be punished. Comedy gold. He's like the mad uncle that everyone tries to keep under wraps in case he embarrasses the family. Just cos u don't agree with him doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to speak. The problem is the amount of people that agree with him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2016, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on April 01, 2016, 11:17:11 AM
QuoteSomehow he managed to get the Pro-Life and Pro-Choicers to band together in their hatred of him. That is an achievement in itself!

He'd make a great unity candidate.  :P

Have to say I love Trump. I wouldn't agree with him on anything but his non pc attitude is so refreshing. Speaks his mind and doesn't hide behind spoof and bluster. He thinks abortion is wrong so any woman who does it should be punished. Comedy gold. He's like the mad uncle that everyone tries to keep under wraps in case he embarrasses the family. Just cos u don't agree with him doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to speak. The problem is the amount of people that agree with him.

No he doesn't! He says he's "anti-abortion" because no pro-choice candidate has a hope of capturing the GOP nomination. He just fell over himself trying to toe the party line and even outdo the others. Trump's conversion to anti-abortion coincides almost exactly with his toying with and later actually partaking in the GOP primaries.

And he's the biggest spoofer and blusterer out there! No details or depth on anything, just baseless boasting, angry platitudes and button-pushing. Pure demagoguery. Which is why he has got into trouble this week with the abortion thing. He clearly had given zero thought to it.

And his aggressive, "non-pc" approach was also shown up this week for what it really is with the Breitbart reporter thing: Pure bullying and bullshit. Although the Mexican rapists stuff, the misogny (Carly Fiorina, Heidi Cruz, Rosie O'Donnell etc. etc.), the flirting with and retweeting white supremacists and so on have shown it up long before this week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 01, 2016, 02:14:29 PM
Jeb looks tasty at 540/1 but Trump will most likely go 3rd party and split the GOP vote the way things are going. Bernie at 12/1 might be better
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 02:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on April 01, 2016, 11:17:11 AM
QuoteSomehow he managed to get the Pro-Life and Pro-Choicers to band together in their hatred of him. That is an achievement in itself!

He'd make a great unity candidate.  :P

Have to say I love Trump. I wouldn't agree with him on anything but his non pc attitude is so refreshing. Speaks his mind and doesn't hide behind spoof and bluster. He thinks abortion is wrong so any woman who does it should be punished. Comedy gold. He's like the mad uncle that everyone tries to keep under wraps in case he embarrasses the family. Just cos u don't agree with him doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to speak. The problem is the amount of people that agree with him.

No he doesn't! He says he's "anti-abortion" because no pro-choice candidate has a hope of capturing the GOP nomination. He just fell over himself trying to toe the party line and even outdo the others. Trump's conversion to anti-abortion coincides almost exactly with his toying with and later actually partaking in the GOP primaries.

And he's the biggest spoofer and blusterer out there! No details or depth on anything, just baseless boasting, angry platitudes and button-pushing. Pure demagoguery. Which is why he has got into trouble this week with the abortion thing. He clearly had given zero thought to it.

And his aggressive, "non-pc" approach was also shown up this week for what it really is with the Breitbart reporter thing: Pure bullying and bullshit. Although the Mexican rapists stuff, the misogny (Carly Fiorina, Heidi Cruz, Rosie O'Donnell etc. etc.), the flirting with and retweeting white supremacists and so on have shown it up long before this week.

Yerra he's great craic. Love seeing the illiberal liberals going nuts about anything he says.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2016, 02:33:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 02:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on April 01, 2016, 11:17:11 AM
QuoteSomehow he managed to get the Pro-Life and Pro-Choicers to band together in their hatred of him. That is an achievement in itself!

He'd make a great unity candidate.  :P

Have to say I love Trump. I wouldn't agree with him on anything but his non pc attitude is so refreshing. Speaks his mind and doesn't hide behind spoof and bluster. He thinks abortion is wrong so any woman who does it should be punished. Comedy gold. He's like the mad uncle that everyone tries to keep under wraps in case he embarrasses the family. Just cos u don't agree with him doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to speak. The problem is the amount of people that agree with him.

No he doesn't! He says he's "anti-abortion" because no pro-choice candidate has a hope of capturing the GOP nomination. He just fell over himself trying to toe the party line and even outdo the others. Trump's conversion to anti-abortion coincides almost exactly with his toying with and later actually partaking in the GOP primaries.

And he's the biggest spoofer and blusterer out there! No details or depth on anything, just baseless boasting, angry platitudes and button-pushing. Pure demagoguery. Which is why he has got into trouble this week with the abortion thing. He clearly had given zero thought to it.

And his aggressive, "non-pc" approach was also shown up this week for what it really is with the Breitbart reporter thing: Pure bullying and bullshit. Although the Mexican rapists stuff, the misogny (Carly Fiorina, Heidi Cruz, Rosie O'Donnell etc. etc.), the flirting with and retweeting white supremacists and so on have shown it up long before this week.

Yerra he's great craic. Love seeing the illiberal liberals going nuts about anything he says.

So you just like the fact that he's so arrogant and ignorant that he says whatever ill-considered shite comes into his mind, no matter how ridiculous or mistaken?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 02:33:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 02:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on April 01, 2016, 11:17:11 AM
QuoteSomehow he managed to get the Pro-Life and Pro-Choicers to band together in their hatred of him. That is an achievement in itself!

He'd make a great unity candidate.  :P

Have to say I love Trump. I wouldn't agree with him on anything but his non pc attitude is so refreshing. Speaks his mind and doesn't hide behind spoof and bluster. He thinks abortion is wrong so any woman who does it should be punished. Comedy gold. He's like the mad uncle that everyone tries to keep under wraps in case he embarrasses the family. Just cos u don't agree with him doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to speak. The problem is the amount of people that agree with him.

No he doesn't! He says he's "anti-abortion" because no pro-choice candidate has a hope of capturing the GOP nomination. He just fell over himself trying to toe the party line and even outdo the others. Trump's conversion to anti-abortion coincides almost exactly with his toying with and later actually partaking in the GOP primaries.

And he's the biggest spoofer and blusterer out there! No details or depth on anything, just baseless boasting, angry platitudes and button-pushing. Pure demagoguery. Which is why he has got into trouble this week with the abortion thing. He clearly had given zero thought to it.

And his aggressive, "non-pc" approach was also shown up this week for what it really is with the Breitbart reporter thing: Pure bullying and bullshit. Although the Mexican rapists stuff, the misogny (Carly Fiorina, Heidi Cruz, Rosie O'Donnell etc. etc.), the flirting with and retweeting white supremacists and so on have shown it up long before this week.

Yerra he's great craic. Love seeing the illiberal liberals going nuts about anything he says.

So you just like the fact that he's so arrogant and ignorant that he says whatever ill-considered shite comes into his mind, no matter how ridiculous or mistaken?

No, what amuses me is the apoplectic rage illiberal liberals get themselves into.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on April 01, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Apoplectic rage, or bemused non-comprehension and worry that anyone actually likes this guy?

By the way, what is a liberal? I wouldn't class myself as overly liberal at all, but I think this guy is a prize gobshite, and if he becomes president of the US, I officially revoke my status as a Yankophile.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2016, 03:37:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 02:33:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 02:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on April 01, 2016, 11:17:11 AM
QuoteSomehow he managed to get the Pro-Life and Pro-Choicers to band together in their hatred of him. That is an achievement in itself!

He'd make a great unity candidate.  :P

Have to say I love Trump. I wouldn't agree with him on anything but his non pc attitude is so refreshing. Speaks his mind and doesn't hide behind spoof and bluster. He thinks abortion is wrong so any woman who does it should be punished. Comedy gold. He's like the mad uncle that everyone tries to keep under wraps in case he embarrasses the family. Just cos u don't agree with him doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to speak. The problem is the amount of people that agree with him.

No he doesn't! He says he's "anti-abortion" because no pro-choice candidate has a hope of capturing the GOP nomination. He just fell over himself trying to toe the party line and even outdo the others. Trump's conversion to anti-abortion coincides almost exactly with his toying with and later actually partaking in the GOP primaries.

And he's the biggest spoofer and blusterer out there! No details or depth on anything, just baseless boasting, angry platitudes and button-pushing. Pure demagoguery. Which is why he has got into trouble this week with the abortion thing. He clearly had given zero thought to it.

And his aggressive, "non-pc" approach was also shown up this week for what it really is with the Breitbart reporter thing: Pure bullying and bullshit. Although the Mexican rapists stuff, the misogny (Carly Fiorina, Heidi Cruz, Rosie O'Donnell etc. etc.), the flirting with and retweeting white supremacists and so on have shown it up long before this week.

Yerra he's great craic. Love seeing the illiberal liberals going nuts about anything he says.

So you just like the fact that he's so arrogant and ignorant that he says whatever ill-considered shite comes into his mind, no matter how ridiculous or mistaken?

No, what amuses me is the apoplectic rage illiberal liberals get themselves into.

What is an "illiberal liberal"?

And why is their outrage amusing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on April 01, 2016, 03:39:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 01, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Apoplectic rage, or bemused non-comprehension and worry that anyone actually likes this guy?

By the way, what is a liberal? I wouldn't class myself as overly liberal at all, but I think this guy is a prize gobshite, and if he becomes president of the US, I officially revoke my status as a Yankophile.

I think you will be fine. He has no chance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on April 01, 2016, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: GJL on April 01, 2016, 03:39:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 01, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Apoplectic rage, or bemused non-comprehension and worry that anyone actually likes this guy?

By the way, what is a liberal? I wouldn't class myself as overly liberal at all, but I think this guy is a prize gobshite, and if he becomes president of the US, I officially revoke my status as a Yankophile.

I think you will be fine. He has no chance.

That statement could come back to bite a lot of people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 03:53:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 01, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Apoplectic rage, or bemused non-comprehension and worry that anyone actually likes this guy?

By the way, what is a liberal? I wouldn't class myself as overly liberal at all, but I think this guy is a prize gobshite, and if he becomes president of the US, I officially revoke my status as a Yankophile.

I would define liberal as being tolerant, non judgemental, non dictatorial. A live and let live attitude. An example would be someone who would have no problem with abortion or homosexuality. On the other hand you have the intolerant person who would be anti abortion or homosexuality. People who would try and silence or shout down these people could be considered illiberal liberals or hypocrites. If you're tolerant you would respect someone's right to say what they think even if u don't necessarily agree with them. If you are ok with say abortion but try and silence someone with a different opinion to yourself then you have become the person you have set out to silence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2016, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 03:53:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 01, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Apoplectic rage, or bemused non-comprehension and worry that anyone actually likes this guy?

By the way, what is a liberal? I wouldn't class myself as overly liberal at all, but I think this guy is a prize gobshite, and if he becomes president of the US, I officially revoke my status as a Yankophile.

I would define liberal as being tolerant, non judgemental, non dictatorial. A live and let live attitude. An example would be someone who would have no problem with abortion or homosexuality. On the other hand you have the intolerant person who would be anti abortion or homosexuality. People who would try and silence or shout down these people could be considered illiberal liberals or hypocrites. If you're tolerant you would respect someone's right to say what they think even if u don't necessarily agree with them. If you are ok with say abortion but try and silence someone with a different opinion to yourself then you have become the person you have set out to silence.

Having a "live and let live" attitude does not mean that its hypocritical to be angered by or opposed to someone who does not believe in living and let live. That's the same as the "your intolerance of my intolerance means you're intolerant too" fallacy. Or "you're a bigot because you don't like my bigotry".

And yes, of course even the demogogues like Trump should be free to say what they want. But that doesn't mean they should be protected from responses, angry or not, to what they say.

No one is trying to get the government to shut down Trump or censor him or his supporters. He has full rights to unimpeded free speech, same as those who oppose him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 04:26:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 03:53:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 01, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Apoplectic rage, or bemused non-comprehension and worry that anyone actually likes this guy?

By the way, what is a liberal? I wouldn't class myself as overly liberal at all, but I think this guy is a prize gobshite, and if he becomes president of the US, I officially revoke my status as a Yankophile.

I would define liberal as being tolerant, non judgemental, non dictatorial. A live and let live attitude. An example would be someone who would have no problem with abortion or homosexuality. On the other hand you have the intolerant person who would be anti abortion or homosexuality. People who would try and silence or shout down these people could be considered illiberal liberals or hypocrites. If you're tolerant you would respect someone's right to say what they think even if u don't necessarily agree with them. If you are ok with say abortion but try and silence someone with a different opinion to yourself then you have become the person you have set out to silence.

Having a "live and let live" attitude does not mean that its hypocritical to be angered by or opposed to someone who does not believe in living and let live. That's the same as the "your intolerance of my intolerance means you're intolerant too" fallacy. Or "you're a bigot because you don't like my bigotry".

And yes, of course even the demogogues like Trump should be free to say what they want. But that doesn't mean they should be protected from responses, angry or not, to what they say.

No one is trying to get the government to shut down Trump or censor him or his supporters. He has full rights to unimpeded free speech, same as those who oppose him.

Live and let live J.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2016, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 04:26:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 03:53:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 01, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Apoplectic rage, or bemused non-comprehension and worry that anyone actually likes this guy?

By the way, what is a liberal? I wouldn't class myself as overly liberal at all, but I think this guy is a prize gobshite, and if he becomes president of the US, I officially revoke my status as a Yankophile.

I would define liberal as being tolerant, non judgemental, non dictatorial. A live and let live attitude. An example would be someone who would have no problem with abortion or homosexuality. On the other hand you have the intolerant person who would be anti abortion or homosexuality. People who would try and silence or shout down these people could be considered illiberal liberals or hypocrites. If you're tolerant you would respect someone's right to say what they think even if u don't necessarily agree with them. If you are ok with say abortion but try and silence someone with a different opinion to yourself then you have become the person you have set out to silence.

Having a "live and let live" attitude does not mean that its hypocritical to be angered by or opposed to someone who does not believe in living and let live. That's the same as the "your intolerance of my intolerance means you're intolerant too" fallacy. Or "you're a bigot because you don't like my bigotry".

And yes, of course even the demogogues like Trump should be free to say what they want. But that doesn't mean they should be protected from responses, angry or not, to what they say.

No one is trying to get the government to shut down Trump or censor him or his supporters. He has full rights to unimpeded free speech, same as those who oppose him.

Live and let live J.

I do.

I'm not among the people supporting the politicians and demogogues who want to legislate bigotry and scapegoating. Opposing them is part of living and let live too. You can't just turn a blind eye to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 01, 2016, 05:16:40 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 01, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Apoplectic rage, or bemused non-comprehension and worry that anyone actually likes this guy?

By the way, what is a liberal? I wouldn't class myself as overly liberal at all, but I think this guy is a prize gobshite, and if he becomes president of the US, I officially revoke my status as a Yankophile.
a liberal would be a slightly righter version of a European social democrat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 01, 2016, 05:44:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2016, 03:05:36 PM
If there is to be a saviour or knight in shining armour, Paul Ryan will be the man.

Aye right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2016, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: stew on April 01, 2016, 05:44:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2016, 03:05:36 PM
If there is to be a saviour or knight in shining armour, Paul Ryan will be the man.

Aye right.

You don't think so?

Then who?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on April 01, 2016, 05:56:00 PM
I doubt a true Liberal exists as everyone has their line in the sand that makes them conservative on something - and all lines in the sand are subjective. Maybe Hippies are the only true Liberals left?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

What does the video prove?

One moron (actions AND words) went after him with his skateboard. Everyone else supposedly gave him the finger or said Trump was racist (not a completely baseless concern to raise).

However, even his own words demonstrate the ridiculousness of his "experiment" and the ludicrousness of his using to support his claim that Sanders supporters are more violent (assuming his edits even reflect the average response he received): He is obviously filming in an urban area which is heavily Democratic. All the middle fingers going to thumbs up, which he speaks about, surely reflect that.

Let's see him hold up the Bernie or Hillary signs in some southern white area or some white working class manufacturing town in the northeast.

The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views.

Live and let live does NOT mean not having one's views and opinions remain free from challenge. And it doesn't mean standing idly by while people who oppose live and let live try to elect, govern and legislate against the principal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mikehunt on April 01, 2016, 06:43:48 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

I wouldn't expect someone who thinks fighting is a sport would believe in a live and live concept.  The prevailing attitude would be shut up or I'll bate ya.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 01, 2016, 06:50:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

What does the video prove?

it proves that

One moron (actions AND words) went after him with his skateboard. Everyone else supposedly gave him the finger or said Trump was racist (not a completely baseless concern to raise).

However, even his own words demonstrate the ridiculousness of his "experiment" and the ludicrousness of his using to support his claim that Sanders supporters are more violent (assuming his edits even reflect the average response he received): He is obviously filming in an urban area which is heavily Democratic. All the middle fingers going to thumbs up, which he speaks about, surely reflect that.

Let's see him hold up the Bernie or Hillary signs in some southern white area or some white working class manufacturing town in the northeast.

The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views.

Live and let live does NOT mean not having one's views and opinions remain free from challenge. And it doesn't mean standing idly by while people who oppose live and let live try to elect, govern and legislate against the principal.

It proves that in this small sample size that liberals have less manners than republicans, it shows that there is plenty of ignorance to the left and in essence it epitomises the state of the USA in that it shows people on both sides of the political spectrum are capable of ignorance and stupidity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2016, 07:00:30 PM
Quote from: stew on April 01, 2016, 06:50:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

What does the video prove?

it proves that

One moron (actions AND words) went after him with his skateboard. Everyone else supposedly gave him the finger or said Trump was racist (not a completely baseless concern to raise).

However, even his own words demonstrate the ridiculousness of his "experiment" and the ludicrousness of his using to support his claim that Sanders supporters are more violent (assuming his edits even reflect the average response he received): He is obviously filming in an urban area which is heavily Democratic. All the middle fingers going to thumbs up, which he speaks about, surely reflect that.

Let's see him hold up the Bernie or Hillary signs in some southern white area or some white working class manufacturing town in the northeast.

The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views.

Live and let live does NOT mean not having one's views and opinions remain free from challenge. And it doesn't mean standing idly by while people who oppose live and let live try to elect, govern and legislate against the principal.

It proves that in this small sample size that liberals have less manners than republicans, it shows that there is plenty of ignorance to the left and in essence it epitomises the state of the USA in that it shows people on both sides of the political spectrum are capable of ignorance and stupidity.

It doesn't prove anything stew. I didn't see a single person there for whom there was any evidence that they were a conservative. We saw a bunch of people carrying Bernie signs. We saw a few people talk to or shout at the guy when they supposedly took offense. We saw one woman identify herself as a Hillary supporter. We saw one guy go after him with a skateboard (assuming he wasn't a plant to illustrate the "point"). So overall, we saw lots of people supposedly react (sometimes poorly) when presented with a person loudly sporting a sign supporting a controversial political candidate who these people purportedly oppose.

BUT... we didn't see a single conservative interact with him during the 20 seconds of the video where he carried the Bernie sign.

"Experiment" this was not!

So, no, you can't say ANYTHING about the relative manners of liberals and Republicans based on that video.

In general, yes of course there is plenty of ignorance and stupidity to go around.

But there is one candidate far above all others in trying to exploit that. Christ, you've commented yourself numerous times on your distaste for Trump and your skepticism about his beliefs and rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 01, 2016, 08:20:59 PM
Can i get steer on what you're going for with the "illeberal liberals" term?

Yup I know the date.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 08:31:40 PM
I don't believe in live and let live. I just find it funny that it is something you oftentimes get in response to a challenge on thinking "just live and let live"
I'm challenging that it doesn't exist that much if at all amoung the politically minded......

If a republican challenges liberal thinking on gay marriage  - live and let live man,,,,
If a republican says vote for trump - they get a coffee thrown at them (its in the video) and they're told to "feel the burn" (they have a sense of humour i'll give them that ha)

I prefer the old song live and let die.... axl rose version
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 01, 2016, 09:16:33 PM
I hate this term liberal to describe people that are considered to the left of the political spectrum in America. I understand a liberal in politics is someone who believes in personal freedoms.
So at that rate of going considering the gun lovers, anti federal government crowd, not to mention the libertarians there is just as many Republican liberals as Democrat.

Progressive is a much more accurate term for those who its applied to in America

While Im at it there aren't many real conservatives in American politics either of the Fine Gael/Christian Democrat type, as Trump has exposed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 01, 2016, 09:16:33 PM
I hate this term liberal to describe people that are considered to the left of the political spectrum in America. I understand a liberal in politics is someone who believes in personal freedoms.
So at that rate of going considering the gun lovers, anti federal government crowd, not to mention the libertarians there is just as many Republican liberals as Democrat.

Progressive is a much more accurate term for those who its applied to in America

While Im at it there aren't many real conservatives in American politics either of the Fine Gael/Christian Democrat type, as Trump has exposed
I hate the term progressive as it suggests their views are somehow better and those of the other side are wrong...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 01, 2016, 09:41:30 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 01, 2016, 09:16:33 PM
I hate this term liberal to describe people that are considered to the left of the political spectrum in America. I understand a liberal in politics is someone who believes in personal freedoms.
So at that rate of going considering the gun lovers, anti federal government crowd, not to mention the libertarians there is just as many Republican liberals as Democrat.

Progressive is a much more accurate term for those who its applied to in America

While Im at it there aren't many real conservatives in American politics either of the Fine Gael/Christian Democrat type, as Trump has exposed
I hate the term progressive as it suggests their views are somehow better and those of the other side are wrong...
But equally the same could be said about the term conservative and indeed the opposite could be said of "liberal"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 02, 2016, 12:20:29 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 01, 2016, 09:16:33 PM
I hate this term liberal to describe people that are considered to the left of the political spectrum in America. I understand a liberal in politics is someone who believes in personal freedoms.
So at that rate of going considering the gun lovers, anti federal government crowd, not to mention the libertarians there is just as many Republican liberals as Democrat.

Progressive is a much more accurate term for those who its applied to in America

While Im at it there aren't many real conservatives in American politics either of the Fine Gael/Christian Democrat type, as Trump has exposed
I hate the term progressive as it suggests their views are somehow better and those of the other side are wrong...

If we weren't progressive, we'd still be living in trees.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 02, 2016, 01:11:08 AM
Quote from: stew on April 01, 2016, 06:50:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

What does the video prove?

it proves that

One moron (actions AND words) went after him with his skateboard. Everyone else supposedly gave him the finger or said Trump was racist (not a completely baseless concern to raise).

However, even his own words demonstrate the ridiculousness of his "experiment" and the ludicrousness of his using to support his claim that Sanders supporters are more violent (assuming his edits even reflect the average response he received): He is obviously filming in an urban area which is heavily Democratic. All the middle fingers going to thumbs up, which he speaks about, surely reflect that.

Let's see him hold up the Bernie or Hillary signs in some southern white area or some white working class manufacturing town in the northeast.

The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views.

Live and let live does NOT mean not having one's views and opinions remain free from challenge. And it doesn't mean standing idly by while people who oppose live and let live try to elect, govern and legislate against the principal.

It proves that in this small sample size that liberals have less manners than republicans, it shows that there is plenty of ignorance to the left and in essence it epitomises the state of the USA in that it shows people on both sides of the political spectrum are capable of ignorance and stupidity.

Why do you need a poorly made video to demonstrate that?? Of course there are ignorant lunatics on both sides but Trump is bringing the ignorance, hatred and bigotry of the right front and centre for the world to see!!!! Everything we've seen to date shows the right is waaaaaaayyyy more mental than the left!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 02, 2016, 01:22:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 02, 2016, 12:20:29 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 01, 2016, 09:16:33 PM
I hate this term liberal to describe people that are considered to the left of the political spectrum in America. I understand a liberal in politics is someone who believes in personal freedoms.
So at that rate of going considering the gun lovers, anti federal government crowd, not to mention the libertarians there is just as many Republican liberals as Democrat.

Progressive is a much more accurate term for those who its applied to in America

While Im at it there aren't many real conservatives in American politics either of the Fine Gael/Christian Democrat type, as Trump has exposed
I hate the term progressive as it suggests their views are somehow better and those of the other side are wrong...

If we weren't progressive, we'd still be living in trees.

But then by the same token if we weren't conservative we would likely have been wiped out by now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 02, 2016, 04:43:48 AM
Quote from: stew on April 01, 2016, 06:50:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

What does the video prove?

it proves that

One moron (actions AND words) went after him with his skateboard. Everyone else supposedly gave him the finger or said Trump was racist (not a completely baseless concern to raise).

However, even his own words demonstrate the ridiculousness of his "experiment" and the ludicrousness of his using to support his claim that Sanders supporters are more violent (assuming his edits even reflect the average response he received): He is obviously filming in an urban area which is heavily Democratic. All the middle fingers going to thumbs up, which he speaks about, surely reflect that.

Let's see him hold up the Bernie or Hillary signs in some southern white area or some white working class manufacturing town in the northeast.

The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views.

Live and let live does NOT mean not having one's views and opinions remain free from challenge. And it doesn't mean standing idly by while people who oppose live and let live try to elect, govern and legislate against the principal.

It proves that in this small sample size that liberals have less manners than republicans, it shows that there is plenty of ignorance to the left and in essence it epitomises the state of the USA in that it shows people on both sides of the political spectrum are capable of ignorance and stupidity.

That video is pretty funny.... the fact people would even rise to it is pretty silly.

Looks like it was in LA somewhere, not exactly Trump territory, I know plenty of places in Socal where where he could get a similar reception with an Obama sign
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2016, 07:11:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 02, 2016, 12:20:29 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 01, 2016, 09:16:33 PM
I hate this term liberal to describe people that are considered to the left of the political spectrum in America. I understand a liberal in politics is someone who believes in personal freedoms.
So at that rate of going considering the gun lovers, anti federal government crowd, not to mention the libertarians there is just as many Republican liberals as Democrat.

Progressive is a much more accurate term for those who its applied to in America

While Im at it there aren't many real conservatives in American politics either of the Fine Gael/Christian Democrat type, as Trump has exposed
I hate the term progressive as it suggests their views are somehow better and those of the other side are wrong...

If we weren't progressive, we'd still be living in trees.
yeah but the arctic would be stable....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 02, 2016, 10:25:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 02, 2016, 07:11:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 02, 2016, 12:20:29 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 01, 2016, 09:16:33 PM
I hate this term liberal to describe people that are considered to the left of the political spectrum in America. I understand a liberal in politics is someone who believes in personal freedoms.
So at that rate of going considering the gun lovers, anti federal government crowd, not to mention the libertarians there is just as many Republican liberals as Democrat.

Progressive is a much more accurate term for those who its applied to in America

While Im at it there aren't many real conservatives in American politics either of the Fine Gael/Christian Democrat type, as Trump has exposed
I hate the term progressive as it suggests their views are somehow better and those of the other side are wrong...

If we weren't progressive, we'd still be living in trees.
yeah but the arctic would be stable....

We wouldn't know there was an arctic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2016, 10:59:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

What does the video prove?

One moron (actions AND words) went after him with his skateboard. Everyone else supposedly gave him the finger or said Trump was racist (not a completely baseless concern to raise).

However, even his own words demonstrate the ridiculousness of his "experiment" and the ludicrousness of his using to support his claim that Sanders supporters are more violent (assuming his edits even reflect the average response he received): He is obviously filming in an urban area which is heavily Democratic. All the middle fingers going to thumbs up, which he speaks about, surely reflect that.

Let's see him hold up the Bernie or Hillary signs in some southern white area or some white working class manufacturing town in the northeast.

The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views.

Live and let live does NOT mean not having one's views and opinions remain free from challenge. And it doesn't mean standing idly by while people who oppose live and let live try to elect, govern and legislate against the principal.

So attacking and chasing someone you disagree with is "exercising free speech"????.....its actually assault and battery.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2016, 01:21:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2016, 10:59:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

What does the video prove?

One moron (actions AND words) went after him with his skateboard. Everyone else supposedly gave him the finger or said Trump was racist (not a completely baseless concern to raise).

However, even his own words demonstrate the ridiculousness of his "experiment" and the ludicrousness of his using to support his claim that Sanders supporters are more violent (assuming his edits even reflect the average response he received): He is obviously filming in an urban area which is heavily Democratic. All the middle fingers going to thumbs up, which he speaks about, surely reflect that.

Let's see him hold up the Bernie or Hillary signs in some southern white area or some white working class manufacturing town in the northeast.

The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views.

Live and let live does NOT mean not having one's views and opinions remain free from challenge. And it doesn't mean standing idly by while people who oppose live and let live try to elect, govern and legislate against the principal.

So attacking and chasing someone you disagree with is "exercising free speech"????.....its actually assault and battery.

Why don't you read what I said again... paying attention this time?

"The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views."

The "he" and "him" in the second and the next sentence is clearly the guy who made the video and held the signs.

If that one bit doesn't make it clear, the rest of the post does.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2016, 01:32:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2016, 01:21:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2016, 10:59:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

What does the video prove?

One moron (actions AND words) went after him with his skateboard. Everyone else supposedly gave him the finger or said Trump was racist (not a completely baseless concern to raise).

However, even his own words demonstrate the ridiculousness of his "experiment" and the ludicrousness of his using to support his claim that Sanders supporters are more violent (assuming his edits even reflect the average response he received): He is obviously filming in an urban area which is heavily Democratic. All the middle fingers going to thumbs up, which he speaks about, surely reflect that.

Let's see him hold up the Bernie or Hillary signs in some southern white area or some white working class manufacturing town in the northeast.

The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views.

Live and let live does NOT mean not having one's views and opinions remain free from challenge. And it doesn't mean standing idly by while people who oppose live and let live try to elect, govern and legislate against the principal.

So attacking and chasing someone you disagree with is "exercising free speech"????.....its actually assault and battery.

Why don't you read what I said again... paying attention this time?

"The idiot with the skateboard aside (assuming he's actually a real person and not an actor), he's exercising his free speech rights, everyone else is doing the same. There's no one NOT allowing him to have his views."

The "he" and "him" in the second and the next sentence is clearly the guy who made the video and held the signs.

If that one bit doesn't make it clear, the rest of the post does.

Lol...too many "he's" and "his" in that sentence for my liking. Thanks for clarifying....I thought you'd completely lost the plot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2016, 04:38:27 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014/01/09/can-he-save-gop-itself/
"Polarization in Congress maps onto one measure better than any other: economic inequality. The smaller the gap between rich and poor, the more moderate our politicians; the greater the gap, the greater the disagreement between liberals and conservatives. The greater the disagreement between liberals and conservatives, the less Congress is able to get done; the less Congress gets done, the greater the gap between rich and poor.
Actually, income disparity accords with many other things, as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has found. The greater the income gap, the higher the teenage pregnancy rate (poverty, ignorance, lack of sex education, and opposition to contraceptives are all at play here). The greater the income gap, the more education suffers, the less there is of social mobility, the greater the difficulty of reaching higher education, and the higher the premium put on it."


The US is so fucked
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 04, 2016, 06:41:37 PM
I thought this was a pretty sensible post, so I stole borrowed it and I'm posting it:

Quote

We don't need to take America back. No one stole it. It's right here...you're sitting in it. Chillax.

Mexico isn't going to pay for the wall and we're not going to deport millions of people and break up families. If you think either one is a good idea, you're not smart and probably not a person I want to hang out with.

We don't live in a democracy. Technically we are a Federal Republic. But in reality we are ruled by an oligarchy. If you don't know what that is, look it up. Reading will do you good. You probably need to do more of it.

FoxNews, CNN, and MSNBC have an agenda and are not "fair and balanced" or in any way unbiased. I'll reiterate...read more. Read newspapers (even online ones). Read lots of opinions and sources and then (stay with me here), THINK! Form your own opinion based on as many facts as your can brain can tolerate.

Speaking of facts...there actually is a difference between facts, opinions, and propaganda. You should learn the difference. (Another opportunity to show off your mad reading skills.)

Science is real. We know things because of science. Don't be afraid of it. You have an iPhone and Facebook because of science. It's your friend.

Global warming or "climate change" as the cool kids call it IS REAL. Anyone who tells you it's not real is not a smart person and probably should not be dressing themselves or caring for children.

Racism exists. And you are probably a little racist and should work on that. Seriously.

American Christians are not under attack. We are not being persecuted. We wield so much power in this country that politicians pretend to be Christian just so we will vote for them. No one is trying to take your bible away from you. The gay people are not destroying our families—we don't need any help from them, thank you. We do a fine job of that by ourselves. So stop saying we are persecuted. You sound stupid.

Poor people need help. If you're not helping them but complaining about how the government helps them with your money you are not a nice person.

Be nice to the people who teach your children. Don't send them nasty emails or yell at them. Their job is 10,000 times harder than your stupid job. You are not a professional educator so just shut your mouth and be thankful someone is willing to teach your offspring.

You don't know what Common Core is. You think you do, but you don't unless you're a teacher. So stop complaining about math problem memes on Facebook. You can't do the math anyway.

ISIS is not an existential threat to the United States. We do not need to rebuild our military. Our military is the strongest, scariest, most badass killing machine the world has ever seen. So stop being afraid and stop letting politicians and pundits scare you.

Guns do in fact kill people. That's what they are designed to do. If you feel you need a gun to protect yourself in America, you are probably living in the wrong neighborhood and should move before you go out and buy a gun. There are like a billion places to live where you won't need a gun, or even need to lock your front door.

If you do own a gun, then make sure you know how to use it really, really, really well. Seriously...get some training because you still don't know how to record stuff with your DVR. Go to the gun range and shoot the thing a lot. Learn how to clean it properly and be able to disassemble it and reassemble it with your eyes closed. It's a freaking gun and it deserves that level of care, proficiency and respect. And for God's sake, keep it locked up and away from your kids.

If you are even a little bit crazy, sad, or pissed off...you shouldn't have a gun. And the Founding Fathers would totally agree with me.

Stop being suspicious of American Muslims. I guarantee the guy sitting next to you in the cubicle at work is probably more of a threat to you than any Muslim. He has to listen to your uninformed ranting day after day and has probably already imagined very colorful and creative ways to end you.

Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and all the rest are ENTERTAINERS! Stop getting your opinions from them. (Here's where that reading thing can really be an advantage.)

Stop sharing Facebook memes that tell me to share or else Jesus won't bless me with a laundry basket full of cash. That's not how prayer works. And I don't want money delivered (even from God) in a laundry basket. Nobody ever washes those things out and they just keep putting nasty dirty clothes in them. Yuck!

We are the United States of America and we can afford to house every homeless veteran, feed every child, and take in every refugee and still have money left over for Starbucks and a bucket of KFC.

Unless you can trace your family line back to someone who made deerskin pants look stylish and could field dress a buffalo, you are a descendent of an immigrant. Please stop saying that immigrants are ruining our country. Such comments are like a giant verbal burrito stuffed with historical ignorance, latent racism, and xenophobia all wrapped in a fascist tortilla.

That's all for now. I feel better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 04, 2016, 07:05:57 PM
this is a very interesting  (and long) piece on why a lot of poor white voters are supporting trump (actually written by a poor white person...)

It's over the maximum allowed length of a post (30,000 characters- who knew?) so if you want to read it go here

http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/01/i-know-why-poor-whites-chant-trump-trump-trump/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 04, 2016, 11:21:31 PM
Thats a great article hegan boy the 2nd not the 1st.

It addresses some of the silly sneering that is at the core of alot of liberal middleclass thinking. It is off putting, polarising, spitful and helps no one.

Hillary Clinton will be a continuation of political corruption in America and will do much the same job as Trump Cruz Bush or any1 else. She will pander to her donors but will have make a few token changes that her spin doctors will dress it up to convince her liberal electorate that she is doing a good job at holding back the redneck agenda. But things will remain the same for the poor man and corporate America will go about its business unhindered

Bernie Sanders the only man who has the true will to close the wealth gap in America, and maybe he cant change things exactly the way he wants but if he gets voted in at least he will give it a go.

I think he would surprise a few people and could eat into Trumps voter base poor white males if he got the nomination. But thats a big if....Clinton looks to be sitting pretty with all her super delegates

#Feelthebern
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 04, 2016, 11:24:28 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 04, 2016, 06:41:37 PM
I thought this was a pretty sensible post, so I stole borrowed it and I'm posting it:

Quote

We don't need to take America back. No one stole it. It's right here...you're sitting in it. Chillax.

Mexico isn't going to pay for the wall and we're not going to deport millions of people and break up families. If you think either one is a good idea, you're not smart and probably not a person I want to hang out with.

We don't live in a democracy. Technically we are a Federal Republic. But in reality we are ruled by an oligarchy. If you don't know what that is, look it up. Reading will do you good. You probably need to do more of it.

FoxNews, CNN, and MSNBC have an agenda and are not "fair and balanced" or in any way unbiased. I'll reiterate...read more. Read newspapers (even online ones). Read lots of opinions and sources and then (stay with me here), THINK! Form your own opinion based on as many facts as your can brain can tolerate.

Speaking of facts...there actually is a difference between facts, opinions, and propaganda. You should learn the difference. (Another opportunity to show off your mad reading skills.)

Science is real. We know things because of science. Don't be afraid of it. You have an iPhone and Facebook because of science. It's your friend.

Global warming or "climate change" as the cool kids call it IS REAL. Anyone who tells you it's not real is not a smart person and probably should not be dressing themselves or caring for children.

Racism exists. And you are probably a little racist and should work on that. Seriously.

American Christians are not under attack. We are not being persecuted. We wield so much power in this country that politicians pretend to be Christian just so we will vote for them. No one is trying to take your bible away from you. The gay people are not destroying our families—we don't need any help from them, thank you. We do a fine job of that by ourselves. So stop saying we are persecuted. You sound stupid.

Poor people need help. If you're not helping them but complaining about how the government helps them with your money you are not a nice person.

Be nice to the people who teach your children. Don't send them nasty emails or yell at them. Their job is 10,000 times harder than your stupid job. You are not a professional educator so just shut your mouth and be thankful someone is willing to teach your offspring.

You don't know what Common Core is. You think you do, but you don't unless you're a teacher. So stop complaining about math problem memes on Facebook. You can't do the math anyway.

ISIS is not an existential threat to the United States. We do not need to rebuild our military. Our military is the strongest, scariest, most badass killing machine the world has ever seen. So stop being afraid and stop letting politicians and pundits scare you.

Guns do in fact kill people. That's what they are designed to do. If you feel you need a gun to protect yourself in America, you are probably living in the wrong neighborhood and should move before you go out and buy a gun. There are like a billion places to live where you won't need a gun, or even need to lock your front door.

If you do own a gun, then make sure you know how to use it really, really, really well. Seriously...get some training because you still don't know how to record stuff with your DVR. Go to the gun range and shoot the thing a lot. Learn how to clean it properly and be able to disassemble it and reassemble it with your eyes closed. It's a freaking gun and it deserves that level of care, proficiency and respect. And for God's sake, keep it locked up and away from your kids.

If you are even a little bit crazy, sad, or pissed off...you shouldn't have a gun. And the Founding Fathers would totally agree with me.

Stop being suspicious of American Muslims. I guarantee the guy sitting next to you in the cubicle at work is probably more of a threat to you than any Muslim. He has to listen to your uninformed ranting day after day and has probably already imagined very colorful and creative ways to end you.

Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and all the rest are ENTERTAINERS! Stop getting your opinions from them. (Here's where that reading thing can really be an advantage.)

Stop sharing Facebook memes that tell me to share or else Jesus won't bless me with a laundry basket full of cash. That's not how prayer works. And I don't want money delivered (even from God) in a laundry basket. Nobody ever washes those things out and they just keep putting nasty dirty clothes in them. Yuck!

We are the United States of America and we can afford to house every homeless veteran, feed every child, and take in every refugee and still have money left over for Starbucks and a bucket of KFC.

Unless you can trace your family line back to someone who made deerskin pants look stylish and could field dress a buffalo, you are a descendent of an immigrant. Please stop saying that immigrants are ruining our country. Such comments are like a giant verbal burrito stuffed with historical ignorance, latent racism, and xenophobia all wrapped in a fascist tortilla.

That's all for now. I feel better.

Best commentary I've read in a long time. Where's that from, heganboy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 05, 2016, 02:08:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 02, 2016, 04:38:27 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
I don't really see anyone who lives the "live and let live" motto.

Live and let live only applies to those who have the same belief system..... lots of democrat/liberals here have no toleraance for republicans and vice versa.... but sometimes the response is surprising.... live and let live eh....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0)

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014/01/09/can-he-save-gop-itself/
"Polarization in Congress maps onto one measure better than any other: economic inequality. The smaller the gap between rich and poor, the more moderate our politicians; the greater the gap, the greater the disagreement between liberals and conservatives. The greater the disagreement between liberals and conservatives, the less Congress is able to get done; the less Congress gets done, the greater the gap between rich and poor.
Actually, income disparity accords with many other things, as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has found. The greater the income gap, the higher the teenage pregnancy rate (poverty, ignorance, lack of sex education, and opposition to contraceptives are all at play here). The greater the income gap, the more education suffers, the less there is of social mobility, the greater the difficulty of reaching higher education, and the higher the premium put on it."


The US is so fucked
can you name a country with a system you like or think is working.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on April 05, 2016, 08:10:12 AM
QuoteBest commentary I've read in a long time. Where's that from, heganboy?

This is the original one Hardy

https://lamontemfowler.com/2016/02/22/dropping-some-truth/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 05, 2016, 09:02:39 AM
Thanks, Declan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Asal Mor on April 05, 2016, 12:57:53 PM
That's very good alright heganboy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 05, 2016, 09:59:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ygs6XMCmf4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on April 07, 2016, 10:18:12 AM

Potentially significant wins for Bernie and particularly Cruz on Tuesday.

Wondering where lads go for their election analysis (Blogs, news reports, etc) - not easy to get any impartial content as most mainstream outlets seem to have an agenda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on April 07, 2016, 11:44:36 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2016, 10:18:12 AM

Potentially significant wins for Bernie and particularly Cruz on Tuesday.

Wondering where lads go for their election analysis (Blogs, news reports, etc) - not easy to get any impartial content as most mainstream outlets seem to have an agenda.
I have been following Nate Silver @NAteSilver538. He gives a lot of good statistical analysis and throws in a bit of baseball stats for good measure.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 08, 2016, 11:48:12 AM
Another 'social experiment' . . .

Liberal hippy crap of course but just giving a but of balance to the last social experiment nonsense posted on here . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L_UKv19P9E
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on April 10, 2016, 01:01:06 AM

Bernie wins Wyoming 56% to 44% to win his seventh state in a row, but... Hillary leaves Wyoming with 11 delegates to Bernie's 7.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 10, 2016, 05:19:14 AM
7-7 according to this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=wyoming+democratic+delegates&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#eob=m.0846v/D/2/short/m.0846v/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 10, 2016, 06:00:08 AM
Think she picks up those super delegates, she's got pretty much the lot of them sown up.

That the real Clinton firewall
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2016, 06:04:26 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2016, 10:18:12 AM

Potentially significant wins for Bernie and particularly Cruz on Tuesday.

Wondering where lads go for their election analysis (Blogs, news reports, etc) - not easy to get any impartial content as most mainstream outlets seem to have an agenda.
Nybooks.com has very good analysis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on April 10, 2016, 12:36:43 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 10, 2016, 05:19:14 AM
7-7 according to this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=wyoming+democratic+delegates&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#eob=m.0846v/D/2/short/m.0846v/
Wyoming has 4 super-delegates who make their own minds up based on... I wouldn't like to speculate... They have each declared for HC
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 10, 2016, 05:32:09 PM
The kn**ker has the thing sown up, praying the FBI do the right thing and get after her, even if they did Bo would pardon the horrible hewer.

Fair playto the aptly initialed BS, he is giving the all count fits. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2016, 06:11:55 PM
Quote from: stew on April 10, 2016, 05:32:09 PM
The kn**ker has the thing sown up, praying the FBI do the right thing and get after her, even if they did Bo would pardon the horrible hewer.

Fair playto the aptly initialed BS, he is giving the all count fits. ;D
Trump n Hill losing momentum outside the south.  Very interesting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 11, 2016, 11:39:42 PM
http://usuncut.com/resistance/d-c-protest-democracyspring-arrests/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 13, 2016, 05:09:16 AM
Ahead of his time. Trump 1.0 by Rowan Atkinson:
http://youtu.be/UfuN9HRDVZY
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 13, 2016, 09:36:54 AM
Can't believe that some of these laws are being passed in the US how ridiculous are some of these things??

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/gay-rights-mississippi-north-carolina.html?_r=0

These people make the Ashers look tolerant!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:58:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 13, 2016, 09:36:54 AM
Can't believe that some of these laws are being passed in the US how ridiculous are some of these things??

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/gay-rights-mississippi-north-carolina.html?_r=0

These people make the Ashers look tolerant!!!

The world revolves around transgender people these days, why is it considered intolerant for people being upset when a transgender person can walk into whatever public facility they so choose to take care of business, I am sick and tired of hearing about the minuscule population of people who seem to take up much of the airwaves these days.

I disagree with the notion that they should go to whatever gender they were born into, that said they should absolutely not be allowed to go to whichever one they choose, they should be consistent in going to one or the other otherwise all facilities should be unisex in my opinion.

The left is pandering to this community but then again they pander to everybody and have no standards anymore stateside, that said the conservatives in this case are every but as bad, they need to come to the middle and work out a solution but under Bo and the gop that will never happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2016, 01:23:53 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/04/12/hillary-clintons-claim-that-the-highest-per-capita-number-of-crime-guns-in-new-york-come-from-vermont/


Hillary really stretching here with this attack on Bernir.......private polling must be showing the race too close for comfort
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2016, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.

Once again stew... What should Obama have done?

Told all these people affected by the worst economic collapse in 80 years to go root around in skips for food? Or just go f**k themselves?

Would the food stamp reliance have been different under a Republican?

You do realize that there is a considerable multiplier, economically, to programs like food stamps?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2016, 01:56:44 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:58:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 13, 2016, 09:36:54 AM
Can't believe that some of these laws are being passed in the US how ridiculous are some of these things??

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/gay-rights-mississippi-north-carolina.html?_r=0

These people make the Ashers look tolerant!!!

The world revolves around transgender people these days, why is it considered intolerant for people being upset when a transgender person can walk into whatever public facility they so choose to take care of business, I am sick and tired of hearing about the minuscule population of people who seem to take up much of the airwaves these days.

I disagree with the notion that they should go to whatever gender they were born into, that said they should absolutely not be allowed to go to whichever one they choose, they should be consistent in going to one or the other otherwise all facilities should be unisex in my opinion.

The left is pandering to this community but then again they pander to everybody and have no standards anymore stateside, that said the conservatives in this case are every but as bad, they need to come to the middle and work out a solution but under Bo and the gop that will never happen.

They shouldn't have to go to the one they were born as but can't go to the one they choose??

How can there be a "consistent" policy?

Everyone freaks out about the muscle bound pervert in a dress heading into the ladies room for a bit of rape. What about the completely effeminate post-sex change person born as a male? They should have to use the men's room? What about the bearded transgender person who still has female genitalia and a deep voice? You want that person going in to the ladies room? What happens when some woman calls the cops? Will the transgender person with the beard have to drop trousers to show the cop there's a vagina there?

And heaven forbid that the rights of a minority be advocated for and addressed!

Fair f**ks to Bruce Springsteen on his NC cancellation BTW.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 01:57:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2016, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.

Once again stew... What should Obama have done?

Told all these people affected by the worst economic collapse in 80 years to go root around in skips for food? Or just go f**k themselves?

Would the food stamp reliance have been different under a Republican?

You do realize that there is a considerable multiplier, economically, to programs like food stamps?
J70 American capitalism is dying. 22m families on food stamps. Fed unable to generate inflation. Richest 1% own 42% of everything.
Class war is the only thing that will change anything. the rich have to fear the people. When they do the rational concessions start rolling in. Like social security and Glass Steagal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 13, 2016, 01:59:49 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:58:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 13, 2016, 09:36:54 AM
Can't believe that some of these laws are being passed in the US how ridiculous are some of these things??

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/gay-rights-mississippi-north-carolina.html?_r=0

These people make the Ashers look tolerant!!!

The world revolves around transgender people these days, why is it considered intolerant for people being upset when a transgender person can walk into whatever public facility they so choose to take care of business, I am sick and tired of hearing about the minuscule population of people who seem to take up much of the airwaves these days.

I disagree with the notion that they should go to whatever gender they were born into, that said they should absolutely not be allowed to go to whichever one they choose, they should be consistent in going to one or the other otherwise all facilities should be unisex in my opinion.

The left is pandering to this community but then again they pander to everybody and have no standards anymore stateside, that said the conservatives in this case are every but as bad, they need to come to the middle and work out a solution but under Bo and the gop that will never happen.

The transgender issue is only part of this, why should a transgender born as a woman not use a male bathroom or a vice versa? The conservative right are saying "it leads to sexual assault and harrassment" yet there is no information ... anywhere to support that this is true!

Anyway my main issue is the fact that businesses can deny service to people based on their sexual orientation!! It's sick and discriminatory and any **** who refuses to serve someone because of their sexuality should be strung the f**k up! Religious freedom my ass.

Jesus preached tolerance in the bible not discrimination and hate which is what these sick "conservative" assholes are peddling!!!

Maybe if the LGBT community turned themselves into a religion they could get more rights. If the "Christians" can worship their made up god that says they should be straight why can't the LGBT just make up one of their own and proclaim that they are also expressing their religious freedom!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Billys Boots on April 13, 2016, 02:16:17 PM
QuoteIf the "Christians" can worship their made up god that says they should be straight why can't the LGBT just make up one of their own and proclaim that they are also expressing their religious freedom!

Now you're talking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2016, 03:13:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 01:57:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2016, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.

Once again stew... What should Obama have done?

Told all these people affected by the worst economic collapse in 80 years to go root around in skips for food? Or just go f**k themselves?

Would the food stamp reliance have been different under a Republican?

You do realize that there is a considerable multiplier, economically, to programs like food stamps?
J70 American capitalism is dying. 22m families on food stamps. Fed unable to generate inflation. Richest 1% own 42% of everything.
Class war is the only thing that will change anything. the rich have to fear the people. When they do the rational concessions start rolling in. Like social security and Glass Steagal.

I have no problem raising taxes on the rich or other legislation to reduce Wall Street malfeasance or reduce corporate and billionaire money in politics.

Good luck achieving that though. Even the modest reforms Obama brought in were done over a kicking and screaming GOP who will gut everything the first chance they get ( if the courts don't do it first)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 13, 2016, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.

Down from 47.6 million in 2013.

But then Obama temporarily increased the threshold for benefits in 2009 to include more people due to the effects of financial crisis, which is why the number is so high.

It would be remarkably stupid to point at a single figure, without context and use it as some sort of KPI for the POTUS. Digging a bit deeper, it appears that: Economists consider SNAP one of the most effective forms of economic stimulus.  Moody's Analytics estimates that in a weak economy, every dollar increase in SNAP benefits generates about $1.70 in economic activity.: http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239 (http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239)

Fair play to Obama. I am glad you pointed that out. Great President is right Stew.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2016, 03:13:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 01:57:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2016, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.

Once again stew... What should Obama have done?

Told all these people affected by the worst economic collapse in 80 years to go root around in skips for food? Or just go f**k themselves?

Would the food stamp reliance have been different under a Republican?

You do realize that there is a considerable multiplier, economically, to programs like food stamps?
J70 American capitalism is dying. 22m families on food stamps. Fed unable to generate inflation. Richest 1% own 42% of everything.
Class war is the only thing that will change anything. the rich have to fear the people. When they do the rational concessions start rolling in. Like social security and Glass Steagal.

I have no problem raising taxes on the rich or other legislation to reduce Wall Street malfeasance or reduce corporate and billionaire money in politics.

Good luck achieving that though. Even the modest reforms Obama brought in were done over a kicking and screaming GOP who will gut everything the first chance they get ( if the courts don't do it first)
It happens every 2 generations or so. It needs political activism from below. And works outside the usual politics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 07:30:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 13, 2016, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.

Down from 47.6 million in 2013.

But then Obama temporarily increased the threshold for benefits in 2009 to include more people due to the effects of financial crisis, which is why the number is so high.

It would be remarkably stupid to point at a single figure, without context and use it as some sort of KPI for the POTUS. Digging a bit deeper, it appears that: Economists consider SNAP one of the most effective forms of economic stimulus.  Moody's Analytics estimates that in a weak economy, every dollar increase in SNAP benefits generates about $1.70 in economic activity.: http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239 (http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239)

Fair play to Obama. I am glad you pointed that out. Great President is right Stew.
The Fed runs Potemkin macro. It fakes

unemployment
growth prospects
inflation likelihood

Claiming 45m on food stamps as a great bunch of lads is Potemkin macro.
The wealth of the richest 1% was taken from the working class, with the Feds making up somewhat by paying food stamps. similar to the situation in the UK where workers who have had their wages slashed  get benefit credits. that is how neoliberalism works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 13, 2016, 07:48:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 07:30:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 13, 2016, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.

Down from 47.6 million in 2013.

But then Obama temporarily increased the threshold for benefits in 2009 to include more people due to the effects of financial crisis, which is why the number is so high.

It would be remarkably stupid to point at a single figure, without context and use it as some sort of KPI for the POTUS. Digging a bit deeper, it appears that: Economists consider SNAP one of the most effective forms of economic stimulus.  Moody's Analytics estimates that in a weak economy, every dollar increase in SNAP benefits generates about $1.70 in economic activity.: http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239 (http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239)

Fair play to Obama. I am glad you pointed that out. Great President is right Stew.
The Fed runs Potemkin macro. It fakes

unemployment
growth prospects
inflation likelihood

Claiming 45m on food stamps as a great bunch of lads is Potemkin macro.
The wealth of the richest 1% was taken from the working class, with the Feds making up somewhat by paying food stamps. similar to the situation in the UK where workers who have had their wages slashed  get benefit credits. that is how neoliberalism works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo

I see.

You use their figures = figure good
Anyone else uses their figure = figures fake
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 13, 2016, 07:48:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 07:30:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 13, 2016, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.

Down from 47.6 million in 2013.

But then Obama temporarily increased the threshold for benefits in 2009 to include more people due to the effects of financial crisis, which is why the number is so high.

It would be remarkably stupid to point at a single figure, without context and use it as some sort of KPI for the POTUS. Digging a bit deeper, it appears that: Economists consider SNAP one of the most effective forms of economic stimulus.  Moody's Analytics estimates that in a weak economy, every dollar increase in SNAP benefits generates about $1.70 in economic activity.: http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239 (http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239)

Fair play to Obama. I am glad you pointed that out. Great President is right Stew.
The Fed runs Potemkin macro. It fakes

unemployment
growth prospects
inflation likelihood

Claiming 45m on food stamps as a great bunch of lads is Potemkin macro.
The wealth of the richest 1% was taken from the working class, with the Feds making up somewhat by paying food stamps. similar to the situation in the UK where workers who have had their wages slashed  get benefit credits. that is how neoliberalism works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo

I see.

You use their figures = figure good
Anyone else uses their figure = figures fake
QE doesn't work, Muppet.
The crash is going to be awful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 13, 2016, 11:35:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 13, 2016, 07:48:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 07:30:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 13, 2016, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: stew on April 13, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
45 million Americans are on food stamps
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

And the idiots say on here he will go down as a great president....The mind boggles.

Down from 47.6 million in 2013.

But then Obama temporarily increased the threshold for benefits in 2009 to include more people due to the effects of financial crisis, which is why the number is so high.

It would be remarkably stupid to point at a single figure, without context and use it as some sort of KPI for the POTUS. Digging a bit deeper, it appears that: Economists consider SNAP one of the most effective forms of economic stimulus.  Moody's Analytics estimates that in a weak economy, every dollar increase in SNAP benefits generates about $1.70 in economic activity.: http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239 (http://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-is-effective-and-efficient?fa=view&id=3239)

Fair play to Obama. I am glad you pointed that out. Great President is right Stew.
The Fed runs Potemkin macro. It fakes

unemployment
growth prospects
inflation likelihood

Claiming 45m on food stamps as a great bunch of lads is Potemkin macro.
The wealth of the richest 1% was taken from the working class, with the Feds making up somewhat by paying food stamps. similar to the situation in the UK where workers who have had their wages slashed  get benefit credits. that is how neoliberalism works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo

I see.

You use their figures = figure good
Anyone else uses their figure = figures fake
QE doesn't work, Muppet.
The crash is going to be awful.

QE is completely illogical. Solving a debt crisis, by force-feeding more debt to the institutions who created the crisis, is madness. It can't possibly work. And when it keeps failing, they keep trying more of it and expecting a different result. See Einstein insanity definition.

They (US, EU & UK) have debased the major currencies and the only reason they haven't crashed yet is that they are all on the hook together which has delayed everything. Witness the last part of The Big Short. *****spoiler**** the system doesn't go down without a fight *******

Don't think for a second I am defending QE. It is trickle down economic nonsense.

Bottom up would have worked far better. But then they would have insisted on a bottom up bailout being repayable as well. So no one would have bothered.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 14, 2016, 06:03:38 PM
27000 at a Sanders rally in Washinton Sq

Is momentum building in NY for Sanders?

Whats the word on the street J70 et al?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 15, 2016, 04:10:30 PM
You liberals are some Craic, not one word about the mudslinging from the been and killory, why its almost like the GOP, not as bad but as strapon loses more and more votes to the bern in noo York.



The chickens are coming home to roost, I hope Bernie kicks the living shite outta the aul b**tard, he will never win but the longer this goes on the mire the corporate whore is damaged.

Fecking spellchecker!


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on April 15, 2016, 04:23:03 PM
Quote from: stew on April 15, 2016, 04:10:30 PM
You liberals are done Craig, not one word about the mudslinging from the been and killory, why its almost like the GOP, not as bad but as strapon loses more and more votes to the bern in noo. York

The chickens are coming home to roost, I hope Bernie kicks the living shire outta the aul b**tard, he will never win but the longer this goes on the mire the corporate whore is dsmaged.


??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 15, 2016, 04:51:02 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 15, 2016, 04:23:03 PM
Quote from: stew on April 15, 2016, 04:10:30 PM
You liberals are done Craig, not one word about the mudslinging from the been and killory, why its almost like the GOP, not as bad but as strapon loses more and more votes to the bern in noo. York

The chickens are coming home to roost, I hope Bernie kicks the living shire outta the aul b**tard, he will never win but the longer this goes on the mire the corporate whore is dsmaged.


??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ah my very own troll comes in to point out the spelling mistakes, its called spellchecker ,

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on April 15, 2016, 04:54:10 PM
Nothing to do with your spelling at all, old chum (although you really should proof read some of the shite you put up here). Rather, I was laughing at the absolute vitriol and spite you mustered up to spit out "you liberals" and then how you proceeded to, again, vocally support Bernie!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 15, 2016, 05:22:36 PM
I wouldn't really classify Bernie as a liberal in the proper sense of the word at all gallsman.

He doesnt dwell on those social issues that affect 10% of the American population but 90% seem to vote on, he's on to proper politics that affects everyone everyday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on April 15, 2016, 08:32:44 PM
What precisely is "the proper sense of the word" in your view?

Sanders is a socialist. That doesn't mean he's not liberal.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2016, 08:54:35 PM
Bernie brought up the case of the people of Gaza for the first time ever and Hill played the Zionist shill she is

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/15/sanders-clinton-brooklyn-debate-israel-palestine-comments
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 15, 2016, 10:12:30 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 15, 2016, 08:32:44 PM
What precisely is "the proper sense of the word" in your view?

Sanders is a socialist. That doesn't mean he's not liberal.

Discussed it before on here basically a supporter of personal freedoms which makes the vast majority of American "liberals" in one way or another

But that is precisely my point it doesn't mean hes not a liberal (in the pop or correct sense of the term), he just doesnt continually harp on about so called "liberal issues" that affect the few in the hope of gaining residual sympathetic support, which is really at the core of Hillary Clinton's agenda.

Sanders rants and raves about socialist politics that affect the greater majority in the hope of gaining their vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ashman on April 16, 2016, 12:47:48 AM
I was talking to an American tourist last week and the subject of THE DONALD came up . He said he won't vote for him but he agrees with a lot of what he says and many do but don't say it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 16, 2016, 03:20:44 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 15, 2016, 10:12:30 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 15, 2016, 08:32:44 PM
What precisely is "the proper sense of the word" in your view?

Sanders is a socialist. That doesn't mean he's not liberal.

Discussed it before on here basically a supporter of personal freedoms which makes the vast majority of American "liberals" in one way or another

But that is precisely my point it doesn't mean hes not a liberal (in the pop or correct sense of the term), he just doesnt continually harp on about so called "liberal issues" that affect the few in the hope of gaining residual sympathetic support, which is really at the core of Hillary Clinton's agenda.

Sanders rants and raves about socialist politics that affect the greater majority in the hope of gaining their vote.
Joe, liberal in the US means lefty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

Sanders would be in the Labour party in Ireland
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on April 16, 2016, 07:12:56 AM
Well, lefty and progressive.

There was a great piece about Bill O'Reilly saying he'd move to Ireland if Sanders won. They were making point that one he gets here, he'd realise the mistake he made. A centrist/centre-right Fine Gael administration in Ireland would be so far left of anything he'd ever come across.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 16, 2016, 07:50:04 AM
The US doesn't have an outright social democratic party cos the first Roosevelt hunted down the ideology. A lot of what Sanders talks about is social democrat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 16, 2016, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 16, 2016, 07:50:04 AM
The US doesn't have an outright social democratic party cos the first Roosevelt hunted down the ideology. A lot of what Sanders talks about is social democrat.


One of the best presidents ever I might add!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 16, 2016, 10:57:35 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 15, 2016, 04:54:10 PM
Nothing to do with your spelling at all, old chum (although you really should proof read some of the shite you put up here). Rather, I was laughing at the absolute vitriol and spite you mustered up to spit out "you liberals" and then how you proceeded to, again, vocally support Bernie!


For most it is not hard to understand, Sanders is, to me, the only decent human being running, I would support Kasic but he has no chance, Bernie is a socialist, look it up in the dictionary son.

Another reason us the American people want change, real change, killory is the epitome of liberal corporate greed, trump is the epitome if liberal corporate greed, Cruz is a smug git that is too far to the right for my tastes and the only option is the been, sexily the mist decent person running, if Americans want change then have at it, anyone but trump or Clinton will do me.

Hopefully that makes sense to you but it went, you are nit the brightest sadly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on April 16, 2016, 11:06:38 AM
Yes, he is a socialist. He is also liberal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 16, 2016, 04:12:45 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 16, 2016, 11:06:38 AM
Yes, he is a socialist. He is also liberal.

Sure I am a social liberal, fiscal conservative, if I lived in England i would have been a labor party supporter all my life.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 16, 2016, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: stew on April 16, 2016, 04:12:45 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 16, 2016, 11:06:38 AM
Yes, he is a socialist. He is also liberal.

Sure I am a social liberal, fiscal conservative, if I lived in England i would have been a labor party supporter all my life.

???

New Labour?

Fiscal conservative (in the US at least) paradoxily means a supporter of a liberal economy... the opposite of Bernie Sanders's position
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2016, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 14, 2016, 06:03:38 PM
27000 at a Sanders rally in Washinton Sq

Is momentum building in NY for Sanders?

Whats the word on the street J70 et al?

The brother in law is voting Bernie. So is the wife. Haven't decided myself.

But there is little in the way of signs or bumper stickers about to gauge the neighbours or the area.

I've seen a few ads on tv and got one call from Bernie's campaign, but apart from that and a few newsreels about various candidate rallies, you could easily live here and not be aware that, for the first time in decades, the NY primaries actually matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 19, 2016, 04:43:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2016, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 14, 2016, 06:03:38 PM
27000 at a Sanders rally in Washinton Sq

Is momentum building in NY for Sanders?

Whats the word on the street J70 et al?

The brother in law is voting Bernie. So is the wife. Haven't decided myself.

But there is little in the way of signs or bumper stickers about to gauge the neighbours or the area.

I've seen a few ads on tv and got one call from Bernie's campaign, but apart from that and a few newsreels about various candidate rallies, you could easily live here and not be aware that, for the first time in decades, the NY primaries actually matter.

I thought the audience with the pope might have swung it for you J70? No? ;)

Looks like Clinton is gonna win it fairly convincingly anyway there isnt a great likelihood of the polls being so far out for such a large state

On the other hand looks like Mr Trump is gonna get his biggest win yet.

We'll know all tomorrow I suppose
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2016, 07:00:23 AM
Quote from: stew on April 16, 2016, 10:57:35 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 15, 2016, 04:54:10 PM
Nothing to do with your spelling at all, old chum (although you really should proof read some of the shite you put up here). Rather, I was laughing at the absolute vitriol and spite you mustered up to spit out "you liberals" and then how you proceeded to, again, vocally support Bernie!


For most it is not hard to understand, Sanders is, to me, the only decent human being running, I would support Kasic but he has no chance, Bernie is a socialist, look it up in the dictionary son.

Another reason us the American people want change, real change, killory is the epitome of liberal corporate greed, trump is the epitome if liberal corporate greed, Cruz is a smug git that is too far to the right for my tastes and the only option is the been, sexily the mist decent person running, if Americans want change then have at it, anyone but trump or Clinton will do me.

Hopefully that makes sense to you but it went, you are nit the brightest sadly.
Killary is a1%er and warmonger who favours spend but I wouldn't  define her as liberal. I wouldn't say Ariel Sharon was a conservative either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 19, 2016, 03:30:12 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 19, 2016, 04:43:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2016, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 14, 2016, 06:03:38 PM
27000 at a Sanders rally in Washinton Sq

Is momentum building in NY for Sanders?

Whats the word on the street J70 et al?

The brother in law is voting Bernie. So is the wife. Haven't decided myself.

But there is little in the way of signs or bumper stickers about to gauge the neighbours or the area.

I've seen a few ads on tv and got one call from Bernie's campaign, but apart from that and a few newsreels about various candidate rallies, you could easily live here and not be aware that, for the first time in decades, the NY primaries actually matter.

I thought the audience with the pope might have swung it for you J70? No? ;)

Looks like Clinton is gonna win it fairly convincingly anyway there isnt a great likelihood of the polls being so far out for such a large state

On the other hand looks like Mr Trump is gonna get his biggest win yet.

We'll know all tomorrow I suppose

I admire this pope greatly, but he doesn't swing it either way.

Trump will win today, but fcuk me has any candidate ever done so much whining and crying. How it is suddenly news to him that delegates are only bound during the first convention vote is beyond me.

But then he's not renowned for his deep command of the details.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 19, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2016, 03:30:12 PM


But then he's not renowned for his deep command of the details.

Just like the kenyan lad then. He turned out ok in your opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 19, 2016, 04:15:22 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/11/donald-trump-ivanka-eric-miss-vote-deadline (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/11/donald-trump-ivanka-eric-miss-vote-deadline)

Two of Donald Trump's children won't be able to vote for their father in the New York primary next week, after failing to change their party affiliation in time for the state's 19 April primary.

"They feel very, very, guilty," Donald Trump said of his two children, Ivanka and Eric, who are both New York residents.

Both Trump children are registered to vote as independents, and therefore cannot participate in New York's Republican primary.


I blame the parents.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on April 19, 2016, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 19, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2016, 03:30:12 PM


But then he's not renowned for his deep command of the details.

Just like the kenyan lad then. He turned out ok in your opinion.

Do we have to refer to all political figures by their families' country of origins? Trump could be the German/Scotch lad. Cruz could be the Canadian/Cuban lad.

Or is it just the black ones?

There was me thinking that they were all Americans. Not to birthers like you, Foxy, eh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 19, 2016, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 19, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2016, 03:30:12 PM


But then he's not renowned for his deep command of the details.

Just like the kenyan lad then. He turned out ok in your opinion.

Not remotely like Obama (only the willfully ignorant or plain stupid could equate the two) but thanks for playing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 19, 2016, 04:47:55 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 19, 2016, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 19, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2016, 03:30:12 PM


But then he's not renowned for his deep command of the details.

Just like the kenyan lad then. He turned out ok in your opinion.

Do we have to refer to all political figures by their families' country of origins? Trump could be the German/Scotch lad. Cruz could be the Canadian/Cuban lad.

Or is it just the black ones?

There was me thinking that they were all Americans. Not to birthers like you, Foxy, eh?

Foxcommander has an issue with Obama and Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and Black Lives Matter and affirmative action and so on and so forth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 19, 2016, 05:35:28 PM
Can we have a feature whereby, when you have people on ignore, you can't see their posts quoted in replies either?

It kinda defeats the purpose if you have to read their shite anyway, even when you've specifically asked for it to be blocked.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 04:33:03 AM
Well Clinton won as expected.

Amazingly enough outside of the NYC area Sanders won practically everything, including Clinton county

Whats the story there J70 its hardly just a White v "minority" thing is it? For example I seen that she won Westchester County by a country mile and it aint exactly diverse?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2016, 05:24:08 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2016, 04:47:55 PM
Foxcommander has an issue with Obama and Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and Black Lives Matter and affirmative action and so on and so forth.

But if he prefixes his stuff with "I'm not racist but..." then he's okay.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on April 20, 2016, 07:38:01 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 19, 2016, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 19, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2016, 03:30:12 PM


But then he's not renowned for his deep command of the details.

Just like the kenyan lad then. He turned out ok in your opinion.

Do we have to refer to all political figures by their families' country of origins? Trump could be the German/Scotch lad. Cruz could be the Canadian/Cuban lad.

Or is it just the black ones?

There was me thinking that they were all Americans. Not to birthers like you, Foxy, eh?
A right wing racist Shinner, who'd have thought it??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 20, 2016, 12:22:44 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 04:33:03 AM
Well Clinton won as expected.

Amazingly enough outside of the NYC area Sanders won practically everything, including Clinton county

Whats the story there J70 its hardly just a White v "minority" thing is it? For example I seen that she won Westchester County by a country mile and it aint exactly diverse?

I was looking at Queens and Brooklyn returns. Bernie won in Astoria and Long Island City and Williamsburg and Bushwick and such places where hipsters and wealthier younger people congregate. He even won my own area. Hillary won in Jamaica and Bed Stuy and Jackson Heights where minorities and immigrants dominate. Trump cleaned up all over, albeit he came a distant third to those two in actual votes.

Bernie just seems to be weaker among minority voters. Westchester has plenty of minority areas, especially the towns fringing the Bronx, like Mt Vernon and Yonkers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 20, 2016, 03:34:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2016, 05:24:08 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2016, 04:47:55 PM
Foxcommander has an issue with Obama and Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and Black Lives Matter and affirmative action and so on and so forth.

But if he prefixes his stuff with "I'm not racist but..." then he's okay.

Typically you and your liberal mates pull out the race card to cover the failings of a president who's a complete bluffer.
Change indeed. And you fell for it, god love you.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 20, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
Foxcommander,
what exactly is it that you think Mitt Romney would have improved about the United States (or the way of life for its own people, or indeed further afield) in the last 4 years, other than lower taxes for the those who make money through other means than labor?
thanks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2016, 04:16:20 PM
I was looking at economic stats. The richest 1% of Americans own 42% of everything. Clinton and Trump are in That class.
6 Walton family members own more than the poorest 130 million Americans. It Is no Wonder the election Is chaotic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 05:50:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2016, 12:22:44 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 04:33:03 AM
Well Clinton won as expected.

Amazingly enough outside of the NYC area Sanders won practically everything, including Clinton county

Whats the story there J70 its hardly just a White v "minority" thing is it? For example I seen that she won Westchester County by a country mile and it aint exactly diverse?

I was looking at Queens and Brooklyn returns. Bernie won in Astoria and Long Island City and Williamsburg and Bushwick and such places where hipsters and wealthier younger people congregate. He even won my own area. Hillary won in Jamaica and Bed Stuy and Jackson Heights where minorities and immigrants dominate. Trump cleaned up all over, albeit he came a distant third to those two in actual votes.

Bernie just seems to be weaker among minority voters. Westchester has plenty of minority areas, especially the towns fringing the Bronx, like Mt Vernon and Yonkers.

Didnt realise that about Westchester, defo not the Westchester areas I'm familar with now

Anyway your right Sanders is like crack to the hipsters, tho as you say for whatever reason the poorer classes dont seem to go for him, poor whites go for Trump and poor "minorities" go for Hillary. In a way I can understand the Trump thing but cant understand why some many black people go for Clinton, I am presuming its just well rehearsed soundbites and targeting marketing.

I imagine its the same in California tho I know plenty of non whites (everyone is a minority in California) who speak like they are Sanders supporters tho almost all of them are educated and middle class so probably not a fair reflection.

I was wondering more how the "soccer Mum" types are leaning between Clinton and Sanders? And the "baby boomer liberals" you know the type.... well off divorced/widowed Jewish women. Any insight on those?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 20, 2016, 06:05:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 05:50:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2016, 12:22:44 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 04:33:03 AM
Well Clinton won as expected.

Amazingly enough outside of the NYC area Sanders won practically everything, including Clinton county

Whats the story there J70 its hardly just a White v "minority" thing is it? For example I seen that she won Westchester County by a country mile and it aint exactly diverse?

I was looking at Queens and Brooklyn returns. Bernie won in Astoria and Long Island City and Williamsburg and Bushwick and such places where hipsters and wealthier younger people congregate. He even won my own area. Hillary won in Jamaica and Bed Stuy and Jackson Heights where minorities and immigrants dominate. Trump cleaned up all over, albeit he came a distant third to those two in actual votes.

Bernie just seems to be weaker among minority voters. Westchester has plenty of minority areas, especially the towns fringing the Bronx, like Mt Vernon and Yonkers.

Didnt realise that about Westchester, defo not the Westchester areas I'm familar with now

Anyway your right Sanders is like crack to the hipsters, tho as you say for whatever reason the poorer classes dont seem to go for him, poor whites go for Trump and poor "minorities" go for Hillary. In a way I can understand the Trump thing but cant understand why some many black people go for Clinton, I am presuming its just well rehearsed soundbites and targeting marketing.

I imagine its the same in California tho I know plenty of non whites (everyone is a minority in California) who speak like they are Sanders supporters tho almost all of them are educated and middle class so probably not a fair reflection.

I was wondering more how the "soccer Mum" types are leaning between Clinton and Sanders? And the "baby boomer liberals" you know the type.... well off divorced/widowed Jewish women. Any insight on those?

Sorry lad, I don't know too many nor do I have any wisdom to offer on divorced/widowed Jewish women!  ;D

As for Hillary and Bernie and demographics, it appears to be a consistent trend all over. Hillary has long standing support from black and Hispanic voters, partly going back to her husband. Whereas Bernie only very recently evolved in the national consciousness from being an obscure, quirky, odd socialist senator from Vermont.

Yes, the likes of the the BLM movement has issues with her, but when it comes down to it, they'll all fall in behind her when the alternative is Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 20, 2016, 09:56:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 19, 2016, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 19, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2016, 03:30:12 PM


But then he's not renowned for his deep command of the details.

Just like the kenyan lad then. He turned out ok in your opinion.

Do we have to refer to all political figures by their families' country of origins? Trump could be the German/Scotch lad. Cruz could be the Canadian/Cuban lad.

Or is it just the black ones?

There was me thinking that they were all Americans. Not to birthers like you, Foxy, eh?

Trump and Cruz are unlikely to be president so it's not a valid point.

Reminds me I must purchase the new Adobe product. I've a few documents to alter. Not birthcerts though  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2016, 06:05:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 05:50:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2016, 12:22:44 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 04:33:03 AM
Well Clinton won as expected.

Amazingly enough outside of the NYC area Sanders won practically everything, including Clinton county

Whats the story there J70 its hardly just a White v "minority" thing is it? For example I seen that she won Westchester County by a country mile and it aint exactly diverse?

I was looking at Queens and Brooklyn returns. Bernie won in Astoria and Long Island City and Williamsburg and Bushwick and such places where hipsters and wealthier younger people congregate. He even won my own area. Hillary won in Jamaica and Bed Stuy and Jackson Heights where minorities and immigrants dominate. Trump cleaned up all over, albeit he came a distant third to those two in actual votes.

Bernie just seems to be weaker among minority voters. Westchester has plenty of minority areas, especially the towns fringing the Bronx, like Mt Vernon and Yonkers.

Didnt realise that about Westchester, defo not the Westchester areas I'm familar with now

Anyway your right Sanders is like crack to the hipsters, tho as you say for whatever reason the poorer classes dont seem to go for him, poor whites go for Trump and poor "minorities" go for Hillary. In a way I can understand the Trump thing but cant understand why some many black people go for Clinton, I am presuming its just well rehearsed soundbites and targeting marketing.

I imagine its the same in California tho I know plenty of non whites (everyone is a minority in California) who speak like they are Sanders supporters tho almost all of them are educated and middle class so probably not a fair reflection.

I was wondering more how the "soccer Mum" types are leaning between Clinton and Sanders? And the "baby boomer liberals" you know the type.... well off divorced/widowed Jewish women. Any insight on those?

Sorry lad, I don't know too many nor do I have any wisdom to offer on divorced/widowed Jewish women!  ;D

As for Hillary and Bernie and demographics, it appears to be a consistent trend all over. Hillary has long standing support from black and Hispanic voters, partly going back to her husband. Whereas Bernie only very recently evolved in the national consciousness from being an obscure, quirky, odd socialist senator from Vermont.

Yes, the likes of the the BLM movement has issues with her, but when it comes down to it, they'll all fall in behind her when the alternative is Trump.

I was more speaking about the general demographic of White middle class Baby boomer democrats, they are a big slice of the pie, the Jewish women would just be a generalised demographic that would be like that.

Yes its funny how Sanders nailed the mood of a certain populace, much like Trump actually, would say they are both surprised by their success.

But I know a couple of people who swear blind that they will not vote for Hillary Clinton, like it will make any difference in California anyway  ::). But like yourself I think they will row in behind her regardless, they are caught up in the hysteria now of demonising her and will likewise get caught up in the demonising of Trump when the runoff campaign starts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 20, 2016, 10:26:56 PM
How many states do we have to go thtoigh before we have winners declared from both parties?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 20, 2016, 10:34:13 PM
Potentially the lot.... its first past the post
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 20, 2016, 11:02:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 20, 2016, 09:56:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 19, 2016, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 19, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2016, 03:30:12 PM


But then he's not renowned for his deep command of the details.

Just like the kenyan lad then. He turned out ok in your opinion.

Do we have to refer to all political figures by their families' country of origins? Trump could be the German/Scotch lad. Cruz could be the Canadian/Cuban lad.

Or is it just the black ones?

There was me thinking that they were all Americans. Not to birthers like you, Foxy, eh?

Trump and Cruz are unlikely to be president so it's not a valid point.

Reminds me I must purchase the new Adobe product. I've a few documents to alter. Not birthcerts though  ;D

Poor old birther loons never give up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 21, 2016, 04:18:54 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 20, 2016, 10:26:56 PM
How many states do we have to go thtoigh before we have winners declared from both parties?
the 2 parties have conventions in June or July AFAIK
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 27, 2016, 07:25:49 AM
July, so its strapon and Trump, no doubt about it, if I had a vote i would not bother my arse for either of these two lowlifes and a pox on any of you who would vote for Killory. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2016, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 07:25:49 AM
July, so its strapon and Trump, no doubt about it, if I had a vote i would not bother my arse for either of these two lowlifes and a pox on any of you who would vote for Killory. ;)

And those who would vote for Trump...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 27, 2016, 12:21:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2016, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 07:25:49 AM
July, so its strapon and Trump, no doubt about it, if I had a vote i would not bother my arse for either of these two lowlifes and a pox on any of you who would vote for Killory. ;)

And those who would vote for Trump...?

Them too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 27, 2016, 12:24:29 PM
Hillary for Prison in 2016.

Had a nice ring to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 12:35:43 PM
The attack ads will be brutal. The US has a real end of empire feel to it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2016, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 12:21:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2016, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 07:25:49 AM
July, so its strapon and Trump, no doubt about it, if I had a vote i would not bother my arse for either of these two lowlifes and a pox on any of you who would vote for Killory. ;)

And those who would vote for Trump...?

Them too.

So the entire US electorate should stay home in November?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 03:23:31 PM
The GOP cannot stop Trump running away with the voters. The poor Kochs had $1bn to spend on the right candidate and they don't have one. God love them. Whatever the GOP does now it is banjaxed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 27, 2016, 03:34:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 03:23:31 PM
The GOP cannot stop Trump running away with the voters. The poor Kochs had $1bn to spend on the right candidate and they don't have one. God love them. Whatever the GOP does now it is banjaxed.

Is there no chance of a contested convention now to get rid of Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 03:23:31 PM
The GOP cannot stop Trump running away with the voters. The poor Kochs had $1bn to spend on the right candidate and they don't have one. God love them. Whatever the GOP does now it is banjaxed.

Not at all, what they need to do is ensure they get rid of Cruz and Kasich before the convention, suck it up and change the rules so that a liberal sc**bag like Trump never gets to run as a Republican again.

I think Paul Ryan will get the job done, I think they know they are fecked in 2016 but the Party will survive intact, they are going to be the minority in the supreme and they have a great shot owning Congress and the Senate.

No matter what happens, they need to work together as the people are sick of these leaders getting nothing done, Trump is an eejit but he has torn asunder the old boy network and people's expectations of their public servants.

Bernie needs to hang in there because Killory is still under investigation by the FBI.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 27, 2016, 06:05:01 PM
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/04/27/isis-agree-to-leave-destruction-of-western-civilisation-to-trump/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/04/27/isis-agree-to-leave-destruction-of-western-civilisation-to-trump/)

ISIS Agree To Leave Destruction Of Western Civilisation To Trump

:D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 03:23:31 PM
The GOP cannot stop Trump running away with the voters. The poor Kochs had $1bn to spend on the right candidate and they don't have one. God love them. Whatever the GOP does now it is banjaxed.

Not at all, what they need to do is ensure they get rid of Cruz and Kasich before the convention, suck it up and change the rules so that a liberal sc**bag like Trump never gets to run as a Republican again.

I think Paul Ryan will get the job done, I think they know they are fecked in 2016 but the Party will survive intact, they are going to be the minority in the supreme and they have a great shot owning Congress and the Senate.

No matter what happens, they need to work together as the people are sick of these leaders getting nothing done, Trump is an eejit but he has torn asunder the old boy network and people's expectations of their public servants.

Bernie needs to hang in there because Killory is still under investigation by the FBI.
Paul Ryan won't work Stew. the GOP is finished until it deals with income inequality. The base are sick of the bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on April 27, 2016, 06:36:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2016, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 12:21:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2016, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 07:25:49 AM
July, so its strapon and Trump, no doubt about it, if I had a vote i would not bother my arse for either of these two lowlifes and a pox on any of you who would vote for Killory. ;)

And those who would vote for Trump...?

Them too.

So the entire US electorate should stay home in November?
Spoil their vote or vote for one of the Alternatives on their state ballot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2016, 07:47:55 PM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 03:23:31 PM
The GOP cannot stop Trump running away with the voters. The poor Kochs had $1bn to spend on the right candidate and they don't have one. God love them. Whatever the GOP does now it is banjaxed.

Not at all, what they need to do is ensure they get rid of Cruz and Kasich before the convention, suck it up and change the rules so that a liberal sc**bag like Trump never gets to run as a Republican again.

I think Paul Ryan will get the job done, I think they know they are fecked in 2016 but the Party will survive intact, they are going to be the minority in the supreme and they have a great shot owning Congress and the Senate.

No matter what happens, they need to work together as the people are sick of these leaders getting nothing done, Trump is an eejit but he has torn asunder the old boy network and people's expectations of their public servants.

Bernie needs to hang in there because Killory is still under investigation by the FBI.

What rule change could prevent someone like Trump winning?

Are you suggesting they adopt the super delegate setup like the Democrats?

That will go down a treat in GOP base land! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 10:07:40 PM
If the GOP heads engineer a stitch up , Trump will go 3rd party and take the voters with him. Nobody wants to vote for tax cuts for billionaires and cuts to entitlements
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2016, 06:03:44 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
... a liberal sc**bag like Trump ...

Sweet Jesus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 28, 2016, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2016, 06:03:44 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
... a liberal sc**bag like Trump ...

Sweet Jesus.

Follow his contribution money and what he was saying publically prior to 2013, it is  what it is, he is no republican but due to their incompetence he will grtbto run and lose to Clinton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2016, 08:28:09 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 27, 2016, 03:34:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 03:23:31 PM
The GOP cannot stop Trump running away with the voters. The poor Kochs had $1bn to spend on the right candidate and they don't have one. God love them. Whatever the GOP does now it is banjaxed.

Is there no chance of a contested convention now to get rid of Trump?
He has to get 1237 votes to avoid the convention
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2016, 08:29:08 AM
Quote from: stew on April 28, 2016, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2016, 06:03:44 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
... a liberal sc**bag like Trump ...

Sweet Jesus.

Follow his contribution money and what he was saying publically prior to 2013, it is  what it is, he is no republican but due to their incompetence he will grtbto run and lose to Clinton.
Megyn Kelly was the only one with the balls to ask him how long he had been a Republican
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on April 28, 2016, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2016, 08:29:08 AM
Quote from: stew on April 28, 2016, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2016, 06:03:44 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
... a liberal sc**bag like Trump ...

Sweet Jesus.

Follow his contribution money and what he was saying publically prior to 2013, it is  what it is, he is no republican but due to their incompetence he will grtbto run and lose to Clinton.
Megyn Kelly was the only one with the balls to ask him how long he had been a Republican
Sure even the GOP leadership are no longer real Republicans. By that I mean they are not the Republicans of the New Deal, Eisenhower, small blue collar businesses and the American dream. That demographic no longer has a voice and they wrongly think Trump is giving them a voice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on April 28, 2016, 09:41:05 AM
How will Trump cosying up to the Russians play in the US?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2016, 10:13:49 AM
"I will be so good at the military your head will spin"

Yes I think after the foreign policy speech heads are spinning but not because he's so good!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2016, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: stew on April 28, 2016, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2016, 06:03:44 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
... a liberal sc**bag like Trump ...

Sweet Jesus.

Follow his contribution money and what he was saying publically prior to 2013, it is  what it is, he is no republican but due to their incompetence he will grtbto run and lose to Clinton.

You are being thoroughly disingenuous, especially as we have gone over this before. Trump freely admits that he pays whatever he has to to grease the wheels wherever he is operating. If that is NYC or Chicago or Atlantic City, it is Democrats. Other places it will be Republicans. It has nothing to do with political leanings and everything to do with access to power and influence.

And if his epiphany took place in 2013, why was he the head birther in 2010-12 and tweeting about stolen elections in 2012 and toying with a GOP run in 2011?

And far be it from me to defend the RNC, but how can his success be a signal of their incompetence in terms of running primaries? They didn't force working class whites to be hoodwinked by his bullshit. He is the logical end point of the track the GOP have been in for years, but particularly since 2009. They cultivated ignorance and resentment in their base, blaming immigrants, gays, scientists, liberals, minorities etc. etc. for all their troubles, real or perceived. This is where it's left them... With someone who knows perfectly how to harness all that anger and use it to his own ends, whether or not he really believes in it. It might have worked for Karl Rove in the 2000s, but the monster has outgrown them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 28, 2016, 07:12:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2016, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: stew on April 28, 2016, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2016, 06:03:44 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
... a liberal sc**bag like Trump ...

Sweet Jesus.

Follow his contribution money and what he was saying publically prior to 2013, it is  what it is, he is no republican but due to their incompetence he will grtbto run and lose to Clinton.

You are being thoroughly disingenuous, especially as we have gone over this before. Trump freely admits that he pays whatever he has to to grease the wheels wherever he is operating. If that is NYC or Chicago or Atlantic City, it is Democrats. Other places it will be Republicans. It has nothing to do with political leanings and everything to do with access to power and influence.

And if his epiphany took place in 2013, why was he the head birther in 2010-12 and tweeting about stolen elections in 2012 and toying with a GOP run in 2011?

And far be it from me to defend the RNC, but how can his success be a signal of their incompetence in terms of running primaries? They didn't force working class whites to be hoodwinked by his bullshit. He is the logical end point of the track the GOP have been in for years, but particularly since 2009. They cultivated ignorance and resentment in their base, blaming immigrants, gays, scientists, liberals, minorities etc. etc. for all their troubles, real or perceived. This is where it's left them... With someone who knows perfectly how to harness all that anger and use it to his own ends, whether or not he really believes in it. It might have worked for Karl Rove in the 2000s, but the monster has outgrown them.
Trump won every county in Tuesday's 5 state sweep it can't just be all poor white people voting for him ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2016, 07:25:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2016, 07:12:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2016, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: stew on April 28, 2016, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2016, 06:03:44 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
... a liberal sc**bag like Trump ...

Sweet Jesus.

Follow his contribution money and what he was saying publically prior to 2013, it is  what it is, he is no republican but due to their incompetence he will grtbto run and lose to Clinton.

You are being thoroughly disingenuous, especially as we have gone over this before. Trump freely admits that he pays whatever he has to to grease the wheels wherever he is operating. If that is NYC or Chicago or Atlantic City, it is Democrats. Other places it will be Republicans. It has nothing to do with political leanings and everything to do with access to power and influence.

And if his epiphany took place in 2013, why was he the head birther in 2010-12 and tweeting about stolen elections in 2012 and toying with a GOP run in 2011?

And far be it from me to defend the RNC, but how can his success be a signal of their incompetence in terms of running primaries? They didn't force working class whites to be hoodwinked by his bullshit. He is the logical end point of the track the GOP have been in for years, but particularly since 2009. They cultivated ignorance and resentment in their base, blaming immigrants, gays, scientists, liberals, minorities etc. etc. for all their troubles, real or perceived. This is where it's left them... With someone who knows perfectly how to harness all that anger and use it to his own ends, whether or not he really believes in it. It might have worked for Karl Rove in the 2000s, but the monster has outgrown them.
Trump won every county in Tuesday's 5 state sweep it can't just be all poor white people voting for him ?

I didn't say "poor", I said "working class" although "blue collar" would probably be more correct. And, no, of course it's not just them, but they're a significant proportion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2016, 09:25:55 PM
Greenwich CT, once dubbed "the richest town in the richest state".....Hillary got 3200 votes, Donald Trump got 3000 votes.  Trump has wide appeal. Originally it was just assumed that a bunch of toothless trailer trash was voting for him, but that's not the case

http://patch.com/connecticut/greenwich/greenwich-presidential-primary-results-who-did-residents-vote-0

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2016, 10:10:22 PM
This one is two months old, but it states that strongest predictor of being a Trump supporter is lack of a college education.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/

However, Trump could also be starting to pull in other groups now that the field is small and his likelihood of winning increases. Apparently Reagan was hitting 80% in the primaries towards the end in 1980.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 28, 2016, 10:41:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2016, 09:25:55 PM
Greenwich CT, once dubbed "the richest town in the richest state".....Hillary got 3200 votes, Donald Trump got 3000 votes.  Trump has wide appeal. Originally it was just assumed that a bunch of toothless trailer trash was voting for him, but that's not the case

http://patch.com/connecticut/greenwich/greenwich-presidential-primary-results-who-did-residents-vote-0

Whitey- if I remember you lived up and around there right? I worked there for a while and in my opinion, Greenwich is a strange auld town - something really off about it. You have a ferrari and a bentley dealer 100 yards from the train station where the homeless hangout. Some phenomenally wealthy folks but a few shitty areas too. I'm actually more surprised that Secretary Clinton got 3000 votes than at the Trump votes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on April 28, 2016, 11:48:51 PM
Overall in Conneciticut Clinton got 170,000 votes and Trump got 123,000 votes and the total vote for the Democrats was 320,000 to 200,000 for the Republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 29, 2016, 12:27:47 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 28, 2016, 10:41:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2016, 09:25:55 PM
Greenwich CT, once dubbed "the richest town in the richest state".....Hillary got 3200 votes, Donald Trump got 3000 votes.  Trump has wide appeal. Originally it was just assumed that a bunch of toothless trailer trash was voting for him, but that's not the case

http://patch.com/connecticut/greenwich/greenwich-presidential-primary-results-who-did-residents-vote-0

Whitey- if I remember you lived up and around there right? I worked there for a while and in my opinion, Greenwich is a strange auld town - something really off about it. You have a ferrari and a bentley dealer 100 yards from the train station where the homeless hangout. Some phenomenally wealthy folks but a few shitty areas too. I'm actually more surprised that Secretary Clinton got 3000 votes than at the Trump votes.

Good memory....I lived on another part of CT, but I spent a fair amount of time down in the Greenwich area. Not all of Greenwich is Ultra wealthy, but there's shag all poor people living there.

The blue collar area that abuts Port Chester, NY is called Byram, but your probably looking at shelling out $700 K for a house there today.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/realestate/living-in-byram-conn-map-says-greenwich-mood-says-port-chester.html?referer=

Regarding homeless people in Greenwich, I personally haven't seen any myself, and if you saw them at the train station, I'd guess they took the train from somewhere else to panhandle there.  Just for fun I google "homeless Greenwich", and the results bring up a list of all the homeless shelters nearby....just none are located in Greenwich

http://www.homelessshelterdirectory.org/cgi-bin/id/city.cgi?city=Old%20Greenwich&state=CT
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 29, 2016, 12:36:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2016, 10:10:22 PM
This one is two months old, but it states that strongest predictor of being a Trump supporter is lack of a college education.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/

However, Trump could also be starting to pull in other groups now that the field is small and his likelihood of winning increases. Apparently Reagan was hitting 80% in the primaries towards the end in 1980.


http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/live-blog-exit-poll-analysis-tuesday-s-primaries-n562541

"In the Connecticut Republican primary, Trump overwhelmed his rivals in the New York City suburbs. He captured the support of nearly six out of 10 Republicans in this region, despite it being home to some of the nation's best-educated and wealthiest voters"

At the start he was getting the majority of non college educated voters, but he was getting plenty of others too. Cruz is a wack job so anyone who's in any way informed won't vote for him in a million years.

Kasich is probably the best candidate, but like Romney people thinks he won't  take out the brass knuckles necessary to defeat the Clintons dirty tricks so he's toast

As unpalatable as Trump is, many Republicans figure he can't be much worse than Obama (or Hillary for that manner)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 03:40:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2016, 12:36:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2016, 10:10:22 PM
This one is two months old, but it states that strongest predictor of being a Trump supporter is lack of a college education.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/

However, Trump could also be starting to pull in other groups now that the field is small and his likelihood of winning increases. Apparently Reagan was hitting 80% in the primaries towards the end in 1980.


http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/live-blog-exit-poll-analysis-tuesday-s-primaries-n562541

"In the Connecticut Republican primary, Trump overwhelmed his rivals in the New York City suburbs. He captured the support of nearly six out of 10 Republicans in this region, despite it being home to some of the nation's best-educated and wealthiest voters"

At the start he was getting the majority of non college educated voters, but he was getting plenty of others too. Cruz is a wack job so anyone who's in any way informed won't vote for him in a million years.

Kasich is probably the best candidate, but like Romney people thinks he won't  take out the brass knuckles necessary to defeat the Clintons dirty tricks so he's toast

As unpalatable as Trump is, many Republicans figure he can't be much worse than Obama (or Hillary for that manner)
Kasich has the best chance of attracting non GOP voters and beating Cllnton but the base will not vote for him . The GOP is trina cheile .
Seriously divided party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 29, 2016, 08:16:04 AM
Disturbances at an anti Trump rally tonight in Socal.

Would imagine there will be more of these in California so could be a common theme here as half the population is Mexican.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on April 29, 2016, 08:27:32 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 29, 2016, 08:16:04 AM
Disturbances at an anti Trump rally tonight in Socal.

Would imagine there will be more of these in California so could be a common theme here as half the population is Mexican.

See, now that's the kind of rhetoric the Trump campaign spouts out and preys upon. A quick google can reveal the true demographics. Hispanics make up up anwhere from 32-37% of the population, with only 25% (of the total, not of the Hispanic proportion) being "Mexican" as you say (they're really Mexican-American). So you only overstated the population of "Mexicans" by 100%. Well done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 12:51:52 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/29/ted-cruz-is-lucifer-in-the-flesh-says-former-speaker-john-boehner
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete tosser, personally.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 29, 2016, 03:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete t**ser, personally.

I know nothing about him, but when senior members of the GOP are willing to throw the only realistic obstacle to Trump under the bus, it speaks volumes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2016, 05:40:08 PM
According to this Politico article, its been a feature of his entire life, but he especially embraces it to endear himself to the tea party crowd.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/why-ted-cruz-loves-to-be-hated-213859 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/why-ted-cruz-loves-to-be-hated-213859)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete t**ser, personally.
He was a major mover behind the shutdown in 2013. He is an evangelical fundi. He shares a lot of Trump's foreign policy notions. He thinks there is a huge fundi Christian bloc to take him over the winning line out there. There isn't.

The GOP is tearing itself apart. I haven't enjoyed a news story as much since the collapse of the news of the world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2016, 07:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete t**ser, personally.
He was a major mover behind the shutdown in 2013. He is an evangelical fundi. He shares a lot of Trump's foreign policy notions. He thinks there is a huge fundi Christian bloc to take him over the winning line out there. There isn't.

The GOP is tearing itself apart. I haven't enjoyed a news story as much since the collapse of the news of the world.
sounds like your sitting in some room with msnbc cnn and Al Jazeera on 3 tvs and getting Twitter updates from jake tapper Rachel maddow and wolf blitzer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 08:04:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2016, 07:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete t**ser, personally.
He was a major mover behind the shutdown in 2013. He is an evangelical fundi. He shares a lot of Trump's foreign policy notions. He thinks there is a huge fundi Christian bloc to take him over the winning line out there. There isn't.

The GOP is tearing itself apart. I haven't enjoyed a news story as much since the collapse of the news of the world.
sounds like your sitting in some room with msnbc cnn and Al Jazeera on 3 tvs and getting Twitter updates from jake tapper Rachel maddow and wolf blitzer
nybooks.com has the best analysis I think
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 29, 2016, 09:58:20 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 29, 2016, 08:27:32 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 29, 2016, 08:16:04 AM
Disturbances at an anti Trump rally tonight in Socal.

Would imagine there will be more of these in California so could be a common theme here as half the population is Mexican.

See, now that's the kind of rhetoric the Trump campaign spouts out and preys upon. A quick google can reveal the true demographics. Hispanics make up up anwhere from 32-37% of the population, with only 25% (of the total, not of the Hispanic proportion) being "Mexican" as you say (they're really Mexican-American). So you only overstated the population of "Mexicans" by 100%. Well done.

Gallsman, I have to say that comment came across as properly sanctimonious but I understand that my comment may have come across the wrong way so lets get a few things straight.

I did not use the term "half" as in a strict mathematical fraction, I used it as in "a good amount." I thought that this would be glaringly obvious but things do get taken up the wrong way sometimes when they are written down and read by another. I am also well aware racial/ ethnic demographics in California. California is a majority minority state. Although I would say that there is a likelihood to turn into majority Hispanic in the coming years.

I also used the term "Mexican" in the vernacular way its used here, and its used to apply to all people of Hispanic descent, as most are. There are tons of terms here for racial/ethnic profiling that are contradictory, overlapping and dont tie in with the bureaucratic term. For example I would not be considered "white" but a "European". If someone was referring to someone as "Irish" they would normally be referring to an Irish American.

Also I was in no way trying to portray it a slight on Mexicans about there being trouble. When that level of spite has been incited against people, there just will be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 29, 2016, 10:01:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete t**ser, personally.
He was a major mover behind the shutdown in 2013. He is an evangelical fundi. He shares a lot of Trump's foreign policy notions. He thinks there is a huge fundi Christian bloc to take him over the winning line out there. There isn't.

The GOP is tearing itself apart. I haven't enjoyed a news story as much since the collapse of the news of the world.

Lol-if you think Hillary is going to steamroll over Trump you may be in for a very rude awakening

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/24_opt_out_of_a_clinton_trump_race

Ita nowhere near the blowout many are predicting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 10:05:11 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/04/19/trumps-putin-fantasy/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 29, 2016, 10:08:14 PM
Cruz does seem like a right dick alright

I have to catch myself sometimes tho from being pleased when he beats Trump.

His policies could well be even more crazy than Trumps, although he is more likely to stick to them than Trump is to his. Trump has even said he wouldnt stick to his policies if elected

On the other hand Broehner actually seems like a right chap that was scapegoated and vilified by the "liberals" and the tea party but that is politics I suppose. Tho if he had strong armed the teabaggers the GOP would likely be in a better  state than it is now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 03:24:39 AM
More angry protests today at ca gop convention , burning  a us flag while waving Mexican flag at same time and cops just looking at them, do these idiots even realize how they are contradicting themselves with this behavior . Think this sort of stuff will actually help trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 30, 2016, 04:23:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 03:24:39 AM
More angry protests today at ca gop convention , burning  a us flag while waving Mexican flag at same time and cops just looking at them, do these idiots even realize how they are contradicting themselves with this behavior . Think this sort of stuff will actually help trump

:D
Thats funny, although nothing new. Sure when America plays Mexico in the Rose Bowl the American anthem gets booed. ;D

You have to laugh at it, most Mexicans I know are seriously embarrassed by idiotic actions like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 30, 2016, 06:18:14 AM
George Orwell said something interesting in an article here .
https://secure.palmcoastd.com/ows-img/commentary/bestofpremium/Best%20of%20Commentary%20for%20iPad%2040s.pdf
Fascism couldn't happen in the UK unless one of the parties fell apart and the voters became available.

The Republican party is falling apart now. The voters are available.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 30, 2016, 06:56:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2016, 10:01:50 PM

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/24_opt_out_of_a_clinton_trump_race

Ita nowhere near the blowout many are predicting


Whitey, i hear you on the popular vote and demographic profiling. And i think you are accurate.
The reality is that has very little to do with presedential results.
Even if what rasmussen posits comes to pass you still have a massive electoral college win for Clinton. And i mean massive. The issues for the GOP as it stands are not those of the presidential race itself, but rather how will it be viewed locally if i support or dont support Trump. Depending on turn out, trump running could shift both houses, a landslide and a majority in both houses for Hilary, as well as many local races that should be close going significantly one way or the other.
Let me just clarify "as it stands" with the news cycles as they are strange things, and wierdness can happen, especially in the 24 hours prior to voting. But as it looks right now, the trump prospect looks likely to bring out the middle, and they vote sane. The many local elections that will be completely upended by a strong centrist (currently dem leaning) voting public could actually break the GOP as we know it... 
Interesting times

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 30, 2016, 07:19:52 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 30, 2016, 06:56:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2016, 10:01:50 PM

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/24_opt_out_of_a_clinton_trump_race

Ita nowhere near the blowout many are predicting


Whitey, i hear you on the popular vote and demographic profiling. And i think you are accurate.
The reality is that has very little to do with presedential results.
Even if what rasmussen posits comes to pass you still have a massive electoral college win for Clinton. And i mean massive. The issues for the GOP as it stands are not those of the presidential race itself, but rather how will it be viewed locally if i support or dont support Trump. Depending on turn out, trump running could shift both houses, a landslide and a majority in both houses for Hilary, as well as many local races that should be close going significantly one way or the other.
Let me just clarify "as it stands" with the news cycles as they are strange things, and wierdness can happen, especially in the 24 hours prior to voting. But as it looks right now, the trump prospect looks likely to bring out the middle, and they vote sane. The many local elections that will be completely upended by a strong centrist (currently dem leaning) voting public could actually break the GOP as we know it... 
Interesting times
The GOP Base is out of touch with the other 60% and has been decimated by GOP economic policies. Will not vote for a candidate chosen by the party.
The situation is very unstable. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 30, 2016, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 03:24:39 AM
More angry protests today at ca gop convention , burning  a us flag while waving Mexican flag at same time and cops just looking at them, do these idiots even realize how they are contradicting themselves with this behavior . Think this sort of stuff will actually help trump


The cops do nit have the backing from the president, the Russians are buzzing American warships and doing stunts as they fly and this clown does nothing, this bastard has eroded the respect for American authority and he should be curbing these attacks on American democracy, the man is an absolute disgrace tie the nation.


Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the democrat party.  :-[

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2016, 10:51:56 AM
"American authority" :o FFS!
The Vietnamese put that back in its box 40 years ago ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on April 30, 2016, 11:36:58 AM
Flag burning alternative view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKCeESg9Ev8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2016, 12:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2016, 07:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete t**ser, personally.
He was a major mover behind the shutdown in 2013. He is an evangelical fundi. He shares a lot of Trump's foreign policy notions. He thinks there is a huge fundi Christian bloc to take him over the winning line out there. There isn't.

The GOP is tearing itself apart. I haven't enjoyed a news story as much since the collapse of the news of the world.
sounds like your sitting in some room with msnbc cnn and Al Jazeera on 3 tvs and getting Twitter updates from jake tapper Rachel maddow and wolf blitzer

You think the GOP is in good shape for this coming election and beyond, at both the presidential and congressional level?

(Yes, the House is locked in for another few years due to the 2010 gerrymandering, but they're not exactly living up to their unrealistic promises, hence the backlash against the "establishment")

Is it normal to have so many leading members of a party and their bankrollers lamenting their two presidential options?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2016, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2016, 10:01:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete t**ser, personally.
He was a major mover behind the shutdown in 2013. He is an evangelical fundi. He shares a lot of Trump's foreign policy notions. He thinks there is a huge fundi Christian bloc to take him over the winning line out there. There isn't.

The GOP is tearing itself apart. I haven't enjoyed a news story as much since the collapse of the news of the world.

Lol-if you think Hillary is going to steamroll over Trump you may be in for a very rude awakening

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/24_opt_out_of_a_clinton_trump_race

Ita nowhere near the blowout many are predicting

24%?

When's the last time a US election had 76% turnout? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2016, 12:37:57 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2016, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 03:24:39 AM
More angry protests today at ca gop convention , burning  a us flag while waving Mexican flag at same time and cops just looking at them, do these idiots even realize how they are contradicting themselves with this behavior . Think this sort of stuff will actually help trump


The cops do nit have the backing from the president, the Russians are buzzing American warships and doing stunts as they fly and this clown does nothing, this b**tard has eroded the respect for American authority and he should be curbing these attacks on American democracy, the man is an absolute disgrace tie the nation.


Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the democrat party.  :-[

Did Kerry not come out and say those ships would have been within their rights to shoot down the planes?

Are you proposing that they should have shot first and warned later?

Or what are you proposing?

On the cops and the California protests, what exactly does that have to do with Obama?

And whatever the shortcomings of the Democratic party, they ain't the GOP!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 30, 2016, 02:24:43 PM
I think Hillary will beat Trump, but in this election cycle expect the unexpected.

Hillary has a lot of skeletons and who knows what will happen with her legal issues between now and November.

I was listening to a radio show during the week, and Mark Halperin said that of the 3 Republicans left in the race, Trump would be the one Hillary fears most because he will go places (attack) no one else would even dream of going
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 30, 2016, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2016, 02:24:43 PM
I think Hillary will beat Trump, but in this election cycle expect the unexpected.

Hillary has a lot of skeletons and who knows what will happen with her legal issues between now and November.

I was listening to a radio show during the week, and Mark Halperin said that of the 3 Republicans left in the race, Trump would be the one Hillary fears most because he will go places (attack) no one else would even dream of going
The attack ads will be vicious. The presidency will be like the tea party years to the power of x.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2016, 02:36:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2016, 02:24:43 PM
I think Hillary will beat Trump, but in this election cycle expect the unexpected.

Hillary has a lot of skeletons and who knows what will happen with her legal issues between now and November.

I was listening to a radio show during the week, and Mark Halperin said that of the 3 Republicans left in the race, Trump would be the one Hillary fears most because he will go places (attack) no one else would even dream of going

This is undoubtedly true, but this will also be his undoing imho.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2016, 12:37:57 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2016, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 03:24:39 AM
More angry protests today at ca gop convention , burning  a us flag while waving Mexican flag at same time and cops just looking at them, do these idiots even realize how they are contradicting themselves with this behavior . Think this sort of stuff will actually help trump


The cops do nit have the backing from the president, the Russians are buzzing American warships and doing stunts as they fly and this clown does nothing, this b**tard has eroded the respect for American authority and he should be curbing these attacks on American democracy, the man is an absolute disgrace tie the nation.


Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the democrat party.  :-[

Did Kerry not come out and say those ships would have been within their rights to shoot down the planes?

Are you proposing that they should have shot first and warned later?

Or what are you proposing?

On the cops and the California protests, what exactly does that have to do with Obama?

And whatever the shortcomings of the Democratic party, they ain't the GOP!
the cops in the area are all under the thumb of democrat leaders so are the  chp so I'm assuming the policy is laid out for the cops on the ground, if you want to protest fine but don't block streets and try intimidate people . Let's say 200 people were outside a democrat convention protesting to make the border more secure and to deport any criminal illegal aliens from sanctuary cities both legitimate protests and they blocked streets and started intimidating people who disagreed wth them do you think the police would. Be instructed to react the same?  I think not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2016, 06:18:14 AM
George Orwell said something interesting in an article here .
https://secure.palmcoastd.com/ows-img/commentary/bestofpremium/Best%20of%20Commentary%20for%20iPad%2040s.pdf
Fascism couldn't happen in the UK unless one of the parties fell apart and the voters became available.

The Republican party is falling apart now. The voters are available.
the fascists are already here but you are looking for them in the wrong place
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 30, 2016, 03:36:27 PM
Quote
the cops in the area are all under the thumb of democrat leaders so are the  chp so I'm assuming the policy is laid out for the cops on the ground, if you want to protest fine but don't block streets and try intimidate people . Let's say 200 people were outside a democrat convention protesting to make the border more secure and to deport any criminal illegal aliens from sanctuary cities both legitimate protests and they blocked streets and started intimidating people who disagreed wth them do you think the police would. Be instructed to react the same?  I think not

If you actually believe that and arent stirring i am seriously worried. May be time to take off the tin foil hat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 03:48:30 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 30, 2016, 03:36:27 PM
Quote
the cops in the area are all under the thumb of democrat leaders so are the  chp so I'm assuming the policy is laid out for the cops on the ground, if you want to protest fine but don't block streets and try intimidate people . Let's say 200 people were outside a democrat convention protesting to make the border more secure and to deport any criminal illegal aliens from sanctuary cities both legitimate protests and they blocked streets and started intimidating people who disagreed wth them do you think the police would. Be instructed to react the same?  I think not

If you actually believe that and arent stirring i am seriously worried. May be time to take off the tin foil hat.
100% it's true but I need to take off the tin foil hat maybe u leave down the bong gas mask
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 30, 2016, 04:11:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 03:48:30 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 30, 2016, 03:36:27 PM
Quote
the cops in the area are all under the thumb of democrat leaders so are the  chp so I'm assuming the policy is laid out for the cops on the ground, if you want to protest fine but don't block streets and try intimidate people . Let's say 200 people were outside a democrat convention protesting to make the border more secure and to deport any criminal illegal aliens from sanctuary cities both legitimate protests and they blocked streets and started intimidating people who disagreed wth them do you think the police would. Be instructed to react the same?  I think not

If you actually believe that and arent stirring i am seriously worried. May be time to take off the tin foil hat.
100% it's true but I need to take off the tin foil hat maybe u leave down the bong gas mask

How can your "speculation" be 100% true?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2016, 04:39:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2016, 12:37:57 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2016, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 30, 2016, 03:24:39 AM
More angry protests today at ca gop convention , burning  a us flag while waving Mexican flag at same time and cops just looking at them, do these idiots even realize how they are contradicting themselves with this behavior . Think this sort of stuff will actually help trump


The cops do nit have the backing from the president, the Russians are buzzing American warships and doing stunts as they fly and this clown does nothing, this b**tard has eroded the respect for American authority and he should be curbing these attacks on American democracy, the man is an absolute disgrace tie the nation.


Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the democrat party.  :-[

Did Kerry not come out and say those ships would have been within their rights to shoot down the planes?

Are you proposing that they should have shot first and warned later?

Or what are you proposing?

On the cops and the California protests, what exactly does that have to do with Obama?

And whatever the shortcomings of the Democratic party, they ain't the GOP!
the cops in the area are all under the thumb of democrat leaders so are the  chp so I'm assuming the policy is laid out for the cops on the ground, if you want to protest fine but don't block streets and try intimidate people . Let's say 200 people were outside a democrat convention protesting to make the border more secure and to deport any criminal illegal aliens from sanctuary cities both legitimate protests and they blocked streets and started intimidating people who disagreed wth them do you think the police would. Be instructed to react the same?  I think not

Assuming, for the sake of argument, you are correct (you've presented no reason to suggest you are - after all the NYPD was hardly under GOP control in NYC during the Occupy Wall Street stuff or the GOP convention there in the 2000s), what does that have to with Obama?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 02, 2016, 03:16:22 PM
 In 1975 Clinton asked to try a rape case and defended the accused, the bastard was 42 and his victim was 12, she got him off and in 1980 she admitted she knew he was guilty and laughed about it. He went on to do it again and again.

Clinton destroyed the child, she told her she led him on because she was attracted to older men and destroyed her life, this is the sc**bag that is a friend of rapists and an enemy of children and women in general.

Good luck dealing with this lads, this skunk is as bad as Thatcher!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 02, 2016, 04:40:19 PM
Quote from: stew on May 02, 2016, 03:16:22 PM
In 1975 Clinton asked to try a rape case and defended the accused, the b**tard was 42 and his victim was 12, she got him off and in 1980 she admitted she knew he was guilty and laughed about it. He went on to do it again and again.

Clinton destroyed the child, she told her she led him on because she was attracted to older men and destroyed her life, this is the sc**bag that is a friend of rapists and an enemy of children and women in general.

Good luck dealing with this lads, this skunk is as bad as Thatcher!

Not the same version I've read about in the past ( he pled to a lesser charge and she was assigned the case), but the polygraph side of it is troubling, assuming she thought him guilty AT THE TIME ( is that established? - her comments on it came ten years later).

Beyond that, it's a lawyer/barrister's job to mount the strongest defense possible. There's a reason people dislike lawyers.

Has Trump started on this one yet - it's a bit early!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 02, 2016, 06:36:09 PM
Quote from: stew on May 02, 2016, 03:16:22 PM
In 1975 Clinton asked to try a rape case and defended the accused, the b**tard was 42 and his victim was 12, she got him off and in 1980 she admitted she knew he was guilty and laughed about it. He went on to do it again and again.

Clinton destroyed the child, she told her she led him on because she was attracted to older men and destroyed her life, this is the sc**bag that is a friend of rapists and an enemy of children and women in general.

Good luck dealing with this lads, this skunk is as bad as Thatcher!

Stew,
"she got him off"???

you mean- she did the job she was assigned to do as a lawyer, and she was better than the other person trying to do their job?

Friend of rapists? Statistics would point to the fact that you are too... 6% of men at college according to some studies. I'm assuming you have more that 15 male friends?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 02, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Interesting read. It's by an student in Georgia, so I've no idea how accurate or realistic his analysis is, especially as he is not a law student. But stew will enjoy it, as this lad reckons Hillary will be recommended for prosecution by the FBI and Loretta Lynch has not ruled out a grand jury.

http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/ (http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2016, 02:24:05 AM
Quote from: stew on May 02, 2016, 03:16:22 PM
In 1975 Clinton asked to try a rape case and defended the accused, the b**tard was 42 and his victim was 12, she got him off and in 1980 she admitted she knew he was guilty and laughed about it. He went on to do it again and again.

Clinton destroyed the child, she told her she led him on because she was attracted to older men and destroyed her life, this is the sc**bag that is a friend of rapists and an enemy of children and women in general.

Good luck dealing with this lads, this skunk is as bad as Thatcher!

So you presumably got the facebook meme that this Snopes article refers to?

Don't believe everything that your conservative friends send you on facebook stew.

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-freed-child-rapist-laughed-about-it/ (http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-freed-child-rapist-laughed-about-it/)

She didn't volunteer, she didn't laugh about the man's guilt.

And the affidavit, reproduced in the Snopes article, is a request for a psychiatric evaluation, not a character assassination in the press or courtroom.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2016, 05:31:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Interesting read. It's by an student in Georgia, so I've no idea how accurate or realistic his analysis is, especially as he is not a law student. But stew will enjoy it, as this lad reckons Hillary will be recommended for prosecution by the FBI and Loretta Lynch has not ruled out a grand jury.

http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/ (http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/)
she won't be indicted.
the Fox echo chamber exists parallel to reality
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2016, 10:01:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Interesting read. It's by an student in Georgia, so I've no idea how accurate or realistic his analysis is, especially as he is not a law student. But stew will enjoy it, as this lad reckons Hillary will be recommended for prosecution by the FBI and Loretta Lynch has not ruled out a grand jury.

http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/ (http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/)

If she gets elected she could have slaughtered multiples of what Dubya did, but like Dubya, she gets immunity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 03, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 03, 2016, 05:31:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Interesting read. It's by an student in Georgia, so I've no idea how accurate or realistic his analysis is, especially as he is not a law student. But stew will enjoy it, as this lad reckons Hillary will be recommended for prosecution by the FBI and Loretta Lynch has not ruled out a grand jury.

http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/ (http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/)
she won't be indicted.
the Fox echo chamber exists parallel to reality

She won't because the idiot in chief is protecting her, she should be but those pesky liberals stick together, she should be in prison right now, not getting ready to run the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2016, 03:16:37 PM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 03, 2016, 05:31:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Interesting read. It's by an student in Georgia, so I've no idea how accurate or realistic his analysis is, especially as he is not a law student. But stew will enjoy it, as this lad reckons Hillary will be recommended for prosecution by the FBI and Loretta Lynch has not ruled out a grand jury.

http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/ (http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/)
she won't be indicted.
the Fox echo chamber exists parallel to reality

She won't because the idiot in chief is protecting her, she should be but those pesky liberals stick together, she should be in prison right now, not getting ready to run the country.

How, at this point, is Obama protecting her?

Is the FBI investigating this or not?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 03, 2016, 04:54:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2016, 03:16:37 PM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 03, 2016, 05:31:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Interesting read. It's by an student in Georgia, so I've no idea how accurate or realistic his analysis is, especially as he is not a law student. But stew will enjoy it, as this lad reckons Hillary will be recommended for prosecution by the FBI and Loretta Lynch has not ruled out a grand jury.

http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/ (http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/)
she won't be indicted.
the Fox echo chamber exists parallel to reality

She won't because the idiot in chief is protecting her, she should be but those pesky liberals stick together, she should be in prison right now, not getting ready to run the country.

How, at this point, is Obama protecting her?

Is the FBI investigating this or not?

Careful now. . . you're expecting a logical answer when there really isn't one to be found!!

BTW did anyone watch Obama's Correspondents performance? It was excellent :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2016, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2016, 04:54:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2016, 03:16:37 PM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 03, 2016, 05:31:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Interesting read. It's by an student in Georgia, so I've no idea how accurate or realistic his analysis is, especially as he is not a law student. But stew will enjoy it, as this lad reckons Hillary will be recommended for prosecution by the FBI and Loretta Lynch has not ruled out a grand jury.

http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/ (http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/)
she won't be indicted.
the Fox echo chamber exists parallel to reality

She won't because the idiot in chief is protecting her, she should be but those pesky liberals stick together, she should be in prison right now, not getting ready to run the country.

How, at this point, is Obama protecting her?

Is the FBI investigating this or not?

Careful now. . . you're expecting a logical answer when there really isn't one to be found!!

BTW did anyone watch Obama's Correspondents performance? It was excellent :D

Very funny. The skit with Boehner was excellent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 03, 2016, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2016, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2016, 04:54:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2016, 03:16:37 PM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 03, 2016, 05:31:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Interesting read. It's by an student in Georgia, so I've no idea how accurate or realistic his analysis is, especially as he is not a law student. But stew will enjoy it, as this lad reckons Hillary will be recommended for prosecution by the FBI and Loretta Lynch has not ruled out a grand jury.

http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/ (http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/)
she won't be indicted.
the Fox echo chamber exists parallel to reality

She won't because the idiot in chief is protecting her, she should be but those pesky liberals stick together, she should be in prison right now, not getting ready to run the country.

How, at this point, is Obama protecting her?

Is the FBI investigating this or not?

Careful now. . . you're expecting a logical answer when there really isn't one to be found!!

BTW did anyone watch Obama's Correspondents performance? It was excellent :D

Very funny. The skit with Boehner was excellent.

Oh he's a comedian alright. Then again he couldn't be any worse at it than he is being president.
The Smug-o-meter was off the charts.
No problem with that guy Wilmore calling the president bad names? Yet again double standards we've come to expect.
I expect Wilmore will lose his job and his career get fecked like Paula Deen or the lad from Seinfeld.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2016, 06:08:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2016, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2016, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2016, 04:54:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2016, 03:16:37 PM
Quote from: stew on May 03, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 03, 2016, 05:31:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Interesting read. It's by an student in Georgia, so I've no idea how accurate or realistic his analysis is, especially as he is not a law student. But stew will enjoy it, as this lad reckons Hillary will be recommended for prosecution by the FBI and Loretta Lynch has not ruled out a grand jury.

http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/ (http://georgiapoliticalreview.com/opinion-why-hillary-clinton-will-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-information/)
she won't be indicted.
the Fox echo chamber exists parallel to reality

She won't because the idiot in chief is protecting her, she should be but those pesky liberals stick together, she should be in prison right now, not getting ready to run the country.

How, at this point, is Obama protecting her?

Is the FBI investigating this or not?

Careful now. . . you're expecting a logical answer when there really isn't one to be found!!

BTW did anyone watch Obama's Correspondents performance? It was excellent :D

Very funny. The skit with Boehner was excellent.

Oh he's a comedian alright. Then again he couldn't be any worse at it than he is being president.
The Smug-o-meter was off the charts.
No problem with that guy Wilmore calling the president bad names? Yet again double standards we've come to expect.
I expect Wilmore will lose his job and his career get fecked like Paula Deen or the lad from Seinfeld.

Oh no, those black people are allowed to take back and use the "n-word" and I, foxcommander, a white person, am not.

Its just not fair!!!! :'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2016, 06:10:57 PM
Are there any depths Trump will NOT descend to in his name calling and bullshit!

Apparently Cruz senior was with  Lee Harvey Oswald right before he shot JFK. At least according to Trump and the National Enquirer!  ;D

(And of course Fox News, or more specifically, Fox and Friends, allows him to peddle this shit!)

Its horrible. Horrible I tell ya!

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/05/trump-ted-cruz-father-222730?lo=ap_b1 (http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/05/trump-ted-cruz-father-222730?lo=ap_b1)

I hope Hillary is ready for the onslaught!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 03, 2016, 06:42:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2016, 06:10:57 PM
Are there any depths Trump will NOT descend to in his name calling and bullshit!

Apparently Cruz senior was with  Lee Harvey Oswald right before he shot JFK. At least according to Trump and the National Enquirer!  ;D

(And of course Fox News, or more specifically, Fox and Friends, allows him to peddle this shit!)

Its horrible. Horrible I tell ya!

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/05/trump-ted-cruz-father-222730?lo=ap_b1 (http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/05/trump-ted-cruz-father-222730?lo=ap_b1)

I hope Hillary is ready for the onslaught!

hilarious  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 03, 2016, 06:55:48 PM
Just read that on politico, i find it tough at this point to figure out which Trump quotes are real and which are parody
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on May 04, 2016, 12:45:29 AM
After listening to Trump basically saying that Cruz"s father was involved in the JFK assignation I have come to the conclusion that anybody who votes for him is mentally impaired
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2016, 01:43:02 AM
Quote from: maigheo on May 04, 2016, 12:45:29 AM
After listening to Trump basically saying that Cruz"s father was involved in the JFK assignation I have come to the conclusion that anybody who votes for him is mentally impaired

But...but... he tells it likes it is... or something...  ::)

Cruz is out now after Indiana. What's the odds that Trump is nice and magnanimous now, calling him a nice guy after all, after the utter twat he (Trump) made of himself today.

I'm half starting to think it might not be that bad, at least in the long run, if Trump won. 2020 is census year after which redistricting will occur. State races will really matter. All those senate seats the GOP took last year will be up for reelection. Trump on the ballot after four years of f**king up and insulting everyone left right and center would motivate the Democrats like no other.

The only major drawback would be the supreme court, with Scalia's seat and possibly one or two others to be filled.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2016, 02:00:24 AM
A PTA in suburban Boston cancelled an annual school trip to the Nutcracker just in case anyone was offended by the presence of a Christmas Tree on the stage. This country is gone absolutely stark raving mad trying to be politically correct and a lot of people (not just republicans) are sick to death of it. As offensive as I find much of what Trump has to say, I love the fact he could give 2 fvcks about what anyone thinks and says whatever he wants. I actually like Bernie but do t want to pay any more tax, I think John Kasich is undoubtedly the best candidate of either party, Hillary is competent but is a crook and a hypocrite, Ted Cruz is a wacko.  It's actually very sad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2016, 03:02:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2016, 02:00:24 AM
A PTA in suburban Boston cancelled an annual school trip to the Nutcracker just in case anyone was offended by the presence of a Christmas Tree on the stage. This country is gone absolutely stark raving mad trying to be politically correct and a lot of people (not just republicans) are sick to death of it. As offensive as I find much of what Trump has to say, I love the fact he could give 2 fvcks about what anyone thinks and says whatever he wants. I actually like Bernie but do t want to pay any more tax, I think John Kasich is undoubtedly the best candidate of either party, Hillary is competent but is a crook and a hypocrite, Ted Cruz is a wacko.  It's actually very sad

Really??

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that that actually happened as you say, Trump is not the cure for anything. He just sees PR, good or bad, as very valuable and he is so confident that there are enough rubes out there to embrace his idiotic pronouncements as some kind of substantive backlash against the supposed establishment that he will say literally anything.

The Oswald stuff was a new low, if that is possible, in a campaign where he has discussed his manhood in a televised debate, insulted a fellow female candidate's looks, talked about a tv pundit's menstrual goings' on, and embraced thuggish behaviour among his supporters and even campaign manager. Oh and revealed that his "very good brain" is his best source for foreign policy advice!

The man is an utter joke and its an appalling indictment of the Republican electorate that he is in the position he is in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 04, 2016, 03:09:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2016, 02:00:24 AM
A PTA in suburban Boston cancelled an annual school trip to the Nutcracker just in case anyone was offended by the presence of a Christmas Tree on the stage. This country is gone absolutely stark raving mad trying to be politically correct and a lot of people (not just republicans) are sick to death of it. As offensive as I find much of what Trump has to say, I love the fact he could give 2 fvcks about what anyone thinks and says whatever he wants. I actually like Bernie but do t want to pay any more tax, I think John Kasich is undoubtedly the best candidate of either party, Hillary is competent but is a crook and a hypocrite, Ted Cruz is a wacko.  It's actually very sad

What actually happened

http://www.whdh.com/story/27452774/belmont-school-reverses-decision-to-cancel-nutcracker-trip

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2016, 03:12:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2016, 02:00:24 AM
A PTA in suburban Boston cancelled an annual school trip to the Nutcracker just in case anyone was offended by the presence of a Christmas Tree on the stage. This country is gone absolutely stark raving mad trying to be politically correct and a lot of people (not just republicans) are sick to death of it. As offensive as I find much of what Trump has to say, I love the fact he could give 2 fvcks about what anyone thinks and says whatever he wants. I actually like Bernie but do t want to pay any more tax, I think John Kasich is undoubtedly the best candidate of either party, Hillary is competent but is a crook and a hypocrite, Ted Cruz is a wacko.  It's actually very sad

It is very sad, as you say.

I will vote for Hillary, but she does not arouse any enthusiasm. Competence and status quo, a defensive presidency after Obama, are her selling points, especially with a Republican house locked in until 2022. There will be lots of congressional investigations over this that and the other, some possibly justified, most trumped up. No major legislative changes (is she even campaigning on anything transformative?) will be coming. Just more gridlock. But at least the supreme court will shift.

But, as I said earlier, maybe a Trump presidency might be better in the long run rather than a treading water Hillary presidency with  congressional investigations galore. It would certainly be interesting!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2016, 03:14:30 AM
Quote from: dec on May 04, 2016, 03:09:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2016, 02:00:24 AM
A PTA in suburban Boston cancelled an annual school trip to the Nutcracker just in case anyone was offended by the presence of a Christmas Tree on the stage. This country is gone absolutely stark raving mad trying to be politically correct and a lot of people (not just republicans) are sick to death of it. As offensive as I find much of what Trump has to say, I love the fact he could give 2 fvcks about what anyone thinks and says whatever he wants. I actually like Bernie but do t want to pay any more tax, I think John Kasich is undoubtedly the best candidate of either party, Hillary is competent but is a crook and a hypocrite, Ted Cruz is a wacko.  It's actually very sad

What actually happened

http://www.whdh.com/story/27452774/belmont-school-reverses-decision-to-cancel-nutcracker-trip

I've never seen the Nutcracker.

What is the religious aspect to it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on May 04, 2016, 03:16:13 AM
It takes place at Christmas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 07:08:31 AM
There were 2 in the gop bed and the RNC said rollover and vote Kasich
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 04, 2016, 07:18:10 AM
Its all over now for Cruz, no matter about Trump, it still could only be a good thing.

Speaking off Trump has totally lost the plot, can you imagine the shit he is gonna come out with to Clinton? This is gonna be hilarious.

On a side note...Dont really know much about the National Enquirer but Im miffed at how they can print the stuff they do without getting sued.  It isnt really supposed to be paradoy is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 04, 2016, 08:45:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2016, 03:02:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2016, 02:00:24 AM
A PTA in suburban Boston cancelled an annual school trip to the Nutcracker just in case anyone was offended by the presence of a Christmas Tree on the stage. This country is gone absolutely stark raving mad trying to be politically correct and a lot of people (not just republicans) are sick to death of it. As offensive as I find much of what Trump has to say, I love the fact he could give 2 fvcks about what anyone thinks and says whatever he wants. I actually like Bernie but do t want to pay any more tax, I think John Kasich is undoubtedly the best candidate of either party, Hillary is competent but is a crook and a hypocrite, Ted Cruz is a wacko.  It's actually very sad

Really??

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that that actually happened as you say, Trump is not the cure for anything. He just sees PR, good or bad, as very valuable and he is so confident that there are enough rubes out there to embrace his idiotic pronouncements as some kind of substantive backlash against the supposed establishment that he will say literally anything.

The Oswald stuff was a new low, if that is possible, in a campaign where he has discussed his manhood in a televised debate, insulted a fellow female candidate's looks, talked about a tv pundit's menstrual goings' on, and embraced thuggish behaviour among his supporters and even campaign manager. Oh and revealed that his "very good brain" is his best source for foreign policy advice!

The man is an utter joke and its an appalling indictment of the Republican electorate that he is in the position he is in.
That is the scary part for the US. He's a train wreck but seems to be very popular amongst large sections of the US public. That says more about them than him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2016, 09:14:08 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2016, 03:14:30 AM
Quote from: dec on May 04, 2016, 03:09:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2016, 02:00:24 AM
A PTA in suburban Boston cancelled an annual school trip to the Nutcracker just in case anyone was offended by the presence of a Christmas Tree on the stage. This country is gone absolutely stark raving mad trying to be politically correct and a lot of people (not just republicans) are sick to death of it. As offensive as I find much of what Trump has to say, I love the fact he could give 2 fvcks about what anyone thinks and says whatever he wants. I actually like Bernie but do t want to pay any more tax, I think John Kasich is undoubtedly the best candidate of either party, Hillary is competent but is a crook and a hypocrite, Ted Cruz is a wacko.  It's actually very sad

What actually happened

http://www.whdh.com/story/27452774/belmont-school-reverses-decision-to-cancel-nutcracker-trip

I've never seen the Nutcracker.

What is the religious aspect to it?

There isn't one.....that's what is so infuriating about the fvckwits cancelling the trip. Somehow the presence of a "Christmas/Holiday Tree" may be offensive to someone who isnt Christian.....that's the warped logic we're dealing with here.

I had to laugh last night when Trump specifically made reference to "Happy Christmas" in his victory speech last night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 04, 2016, 07:18:10 AM
Its all over now for Cruz, no matter about Trump, it still could only be a good thing.

Speaking off Trump has totally lost the plot, can you imagine the shit he is gonna come out with to Clinton? This is gonna be hilarious.

On a side note...Dont really know much about the National Enquirer but Im miffed at how they can print the stuff they do without getting sued.  It isnt really supposed to be paradoy is it?
Trump needs to find some way to unify his working class resentful sick of the system support and the 20% of floating middleclass doing ok voters.
And he will not be able to do so 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 04, 2016, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 04, 2016, 07:18:10 AM
Its all over now for Cruz, no matter about Trump, it still could only be a good thing.

Speaking off Trump has totally lost the plot, can you imagine the shit he is gonna come out with to Clinton? This is gonna be hilarious.

On a side note...Dont really know much about the National Enquirer but Im miffed at how they can print the stuff they do without getting sued.  It isnt really supposed to be paradoy is it?
Trump needs to find some way to unify his working class resentful sick of the system support and the 20% of floating middleclass doing ok voters.
And he will not be able to do so

He might!!!

He's like a f**king chameleon and he'll say or do anything that will win him votes. . . He'll soften like f**k come the general to try and get undecideds and win over women again!

Cruz had a rant about him yesterday which was actually right on the money in terms of him believing what he says even though the majority is lies.

The danger is Trump isn't beholden to anyone and can change his mind/policies to suit his agenda of becoming President but you'd have to think the right minded people of America will have their say now and the circus will grind to a halt.... fingers crossed anyway!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 04, 2016, 12:21:12 PM
Jesus I hadn't even seen this before I posted above. . . It's started already!!!

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-makes-moves-for-the-hispanics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2016, 01:00:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 04, 2016, 12:21:12 PM
Jesus I hadn't even seen this before I posted above. . . It's started already!!!

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-makes-moves-for-the-hispanics

Jobs for "the blacks" and "the Hispanics", everyone loving one another.

That's inspirational stuff! That'll make people forget about "build the wall" and Mexican rapists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on May 04, 2016, 01:04:25 PM
I was watching a documentary/bio pic there about the rise of Hitler. It is scary the parallels between the rhetoric. Now I'm not invoking Godwins Law, or claiming Trump plans genocide or anything, but the way he pitches his message is scarily similar to what Hitler did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 01:45:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 04, 2016, 01:04:25 PM
I was watching a documentary/bio pic there about the rise of Hitler. It is scary the parallels between the rhetoric. Now I'm not invoking Godwins Law, or claiming Trump plans genocide or anything, but the way he pitches his message is scarily similar to what Hitler did.
AZ it is an economic crisis similar to the 30s. Blue collar americans have been shafted by the system and are sick of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on May 04, 2016, 01:48:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 04, 2016, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 04, 2016, 07:18:10 AM
Its all over now for Cruz, no matter about Trump, it still could only be a good thing.

Speaking off Trump has totally lost the plot, can you imagine the shit he is gonna come out with to Clinton? This is gonna be hilarious.

On a side note...Dont really know much about the National Enquirer but Im miffed at how they can print the stuff they do without getting sued.  It isnt really supposed to be paradoy is it?
Trump needs to find some way to unify his working class resentful sick of the system support and the 20% of floating middleclass doing ok voters.
And he will not be able to do so

He might!!!

He's like a f**king chameleon and he'll say or do anything that will win him votes. . . He'll soften like f**k come the general to try and get undecideds and win over women again!

Cruz had a rant about him yesterday which was actually right on the money in terms of him believing what he says even though the majority is lies.

The danger is Trump isn't beholden to anyone and can change his mind/policies to suit his agenda of becoming President but you'd have to think the right minded people of America will have their say now and the circus will grind to a halt.... fingers crossed anyway!!

Really?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 04, 2016, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 01:45:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 04, 2016, 01:04:25 PM
I was watching a documentary/bio pic there about the rise of Hitler. It is scary the parallels between the rhetoric. Now I'm not invoking Godwins Law, or claiming Trump plans genocide or anything, but the way he pitches his message is scarily similar to what Hitler did.
AZ it is an economic crisis similar to the 30s. Blue collar americans have been shafted by the system and are sick of it.

Just like the Germans were.

AZ hit the nail on the head.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 04, 2016, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 01:45:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 04, 2016, 01:04:25 PM
I was watching a documentary/bio pic there about the rise of Hitler. It is scary the parallels between the rhetoric. Now I'm not invoking Godwins Law, or claiming Trump plans genocide or anything, but the way he pitches his message is scarily similar to what Hitler did.
AZ it is an economic crisis similar to the 30s. Blue collar americans have been shafted by the system and are sick of it.

Just like the Germans were.

AZ hit the nail on the head.

Wealth and democracy by Kevin Phillips is the dog's bollocks.
He compares all the other bubbles in US history with this one.

He draws the parallels between 1870 to 1913 with 1980 to now

1. Corruption takes 15 years to become clear
2  next 15 years involve finance becoming all powerful while reform stops
3 the fourth decade sees popular resentment of money and demand for remedies beginning to gain the upper hand

It is an old film. Trump is not a new character. Neither is Bernie
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 04, 2016, 03:27:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 04, 2016, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 01:45:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 04, 2016, 01:04:25 PM
I was watching a documentary/bio pic there about the rise of Hitler. It is scary the parallels between the rhetoric. Now I'm not invoking Godwins Law, or claiming Trump plans genocide or anything, but the way he pitches his message is scarily similar to what Hitler did.
AZ it is an economic crisis similar to the 30s. Blue collar americans have been shafted by the system and are sick of it.

Just like the Germans were.

AZ hit the nail on the head.

Wealth and democracy by Kevin Phillips is the dog's bollocks.
He compares all the other bubbles in US history with this one.

He draws the parallels between 1870 to 1913 with 1980 to now

1. Corruption takes 15 years to become clear
2  next 15 years involve finance becoming all powerful while reform stops
3 the fourth decade sees popular resentment of money and demand for remedies beginning to gain the upper hand

It is an old film. Trump is not a new character. Neither is Bernie

History has that habit alright.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 04, 2016, 03:51:01 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 04, 2016, 01:48:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 04, 2016, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 04, 2016, 07:18:10 AM
Its all over now for Cruz, no matter about Trump, it still could only be a good thing.

Speaking off Trump has totally lost the plot, can you imagine the shit he is gonna come out with to Clinton? This is gonna be hilarious.

On a side note...Dont really know much about the National Enquirer but Im miffed at how they can print the stuff they do without getting sued.  It isnt really supposed to be paradoy is it?
Trump needs to find some way to unify his working class resentful sick of the system support and the 20% of floating middleclass doing ok voters.
And he will not be able to do so

He might!!!

He's like a f**king chameleon and he'll say or do anything that will win him votes. . . He'll soften like f**k come the general to try and get undecideds and win over women again!

Cruz had a rant about him yesterday which was actually right on the money in terms of him believing what he says even though the majority is lies.

The danger is Trump isn't beholden to anyone and can change his mind/policies to suit his agenda of becoming President but you'd have to think the right minded people of America will have their say now and the circus will grind to a halt.... fingers crossed anyway!!

Really?

Maybe they need a PTG to bring them to their senses
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 05:19:19 PM
Re right thinking people

Adlai Stevenson in some election in the 50s was told he'd have the support of "all thinking people in the US".

"Yeah but I need a majority"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 04, 2016, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 07:08:31 AM
There were 2 in the gop bed and the RNC said rollover and vote Kasich

Kasich is rolling out of the bed himself today

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/04/john-kasich-drop-out-republican-presidential-race-donald-trump-nomination?CMP=twt_gu

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 08:08:47 PM
The GOP is fuckd now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 08:41:09 PM
One of Donald Trump's earliest endorsers admitted this morning that, although he is pleased with the unlikely rise of the billionaire real estate tycoon to the presumptive Republican nomination, the candidate "has some work to do" in communicating with female voters in a way that doesn't send them fleeing to support Hillary Clinton.

Donald Trump's victory speech last night. Photograph: Justin Lane/EPA
"He has some work to do there," Tom Marino, a Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, told NPR this morning. "He's certainly going to have to pivot to women - women are critical in the election. Those who vote are 51% females, and he has some work to do there."
Marino, the fifth sitting member of Congress to publicly endorse Trump's presidential campaign, told Politico at the time of his endorsement that Trump is "the man for the unprotected ... not the protected, not for the Wall Street people, not for the DC insiders, but for the hard-working taxpayers."
But Marino was a little more honest this morning about Trump's massive negatives among the largest single demographic in the US, telling NPR that "wounds have to heal" after a bitter Republican primary in which Trump mocked a female opponent's face, called for women who obtain abortions to be punished and dismissed a Fox News anchor's aggressive questioning during a debate as being the result of menses.
"You make it known that women are gonna play a major part in his cabinet," Marino said, of how Trump might heal those wounds. "He's gonna address the family needs, because no matter what party we;'re talking about, women, in particular mothers, are worried about their family, how their children are gonna be protected."
Despite his previous rhetoric, Marino said, Trump sincerely wishes to unite the Republican party. "Americans... they're sick and tired of being sick and tired of the way Washington's run. It needs to be bulldozed and start over."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 06, 2016, 03:54:04 PM
(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13133201_1129978487095204_2997433024492713234_n.jpg?oh=17e4ad09eb60df3ab6a1a545d26861cc&oe=57A5B710)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 07, 2016, 01:57:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2016, 08:41:09 PM
One of Donald Trump's earliest endorsers admitted this morning that, although he is pleased with the unlikely rise of the billionaire real estate tycoon to the presumptive Republican nomination, the candidate "has some work to do" in communicating with female voters in a way that doesn't send them fleeing to support Hillary Clinton.

Donald Trump's victory speech last night. Photograph: Justin Lane/EPA
"He has some work to do there," Tom Marino, a Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, told NPR this morning. "He's certainly going to have to pivot to women - women are critical in the election. Those who vote are 51% females, and he has some work to do there."
Marino, the fifth sitting member of Congress to publicly endorse Trump's presidential campaign, told Politico at the time of his endorsement that Trump is "the man for the unprotected ... not the protected, not for the Wall Street people, not for the DC insiders, but for the hard-working taxpayers."
But Marino was a little more honest this morning about Trump's massive negatives among the largest single demographic in the US, telling NPR that "wounds have to heal" after a bitter Republican primary in which Trump mocked a female opponent's face, called for women who obtain abortions to be punished and dismissed a Fox News anchor's aggressive questioning during a debate as being the result of menses.
"You make it known that women are gonna play a major part in his cabinet," Marino said, of how Trump might heal those wounds. "He's gonna address the family needs, because no matter what party we;'re talking about, women, in particular mothers, are worried about their family, how their children are gonna be protected."
Despite his previous rhetoric, Marino said, Trump sincerely wishes to unite the Republican party. "Americans... they're sick and tired of being sick and tired of the way Washington's run. It needs to be bulldozed and start over."

Good, I hope they are.

There needs to Bev revolution the states, new parties right and left need to be formed and the ways of new need to tothec ways of the past.

The left cannot lose, no matter what way you cut it they are going to stay in the white house, I half expect an independent to run and further wreck the GOP.

As I said before,  hope Bernie wins because the people want change and they may as well get it in the form of a Tony Benn like figure in Sanders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 07, 2016, 01:59:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 06, 2016, 03:54:04 PM
(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13133201_1129978487095204_2997433024492713234_n.jpg?oh=17e4ad09eb60df3ab6a1a545d26861cc&oe=57A5B710)

He is a frigging Democrat, follow the donations!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2016, 02:14:15 PM
Now he is talking about doing a deal on debt and replacing Yellen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 07, 2016, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2016, 02:14:15 PM
Now he is talking about doing a deal on debt and replacing Yellen.

Yeah, that will work. Treasury bonds will still be seen as extremely safe, reliable investments. The world economy won't suffer at all due to the dollar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 07, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Quote from: stew on May 07, 2016, 01:59:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 06, 2016, 03:54:04 PM
(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13133201_1129978487095204_2997433024492713234_n.jpg?oh=17e4ad09eb60df3ab6a1a545d26861cc&oe=57A5B710)

He is a frigging Democrat, follow the donations!

Not much point in explaining again about buying influence, is there?

Suffice to say, in that case, that if he is a Democrat, and not an megalomaniacal conspiracy theorist, then the conservative movement in the US is made up of some of the dumbest, most ignorant, most ill-educated, naive morons ever to walk the earth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 07, 2016, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 07, 2016, 08:25:53 PM

Not much point in explaining again about buying influence, is there?

Suffice to say, in that case, that if he is a Democrat, and not an megalomaniacal conspiracy theorist, then the conservative movement in the US is made up of some of the dumbest, most ignorant, most ill-educated, naive morons ever to walk the earth.

Well that might be one way to look at it, another might be that the majority of their support is just very poorly educated
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 07, 2016, 10:30:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 07, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Suffice to say, in that case, that if he is a Democrat, and not an megalomaniacal conspiracy theorist, then the conservative movement in the US is made up of some of the dumbest, most ignorant, most ill-educated, naive morons ever to walk the earth.

That is precisely what's happening. These are the same clueless clowns who voted for the catastrophic presidency of George W Bush. Twice. And all because they thought they'd like to have a beer with the stupid p***k.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on May 07, 2016, 11:04:25 PM
In the increasingly likely event of a Trump v Clinton election is there any benefit in, or even a will for, a real push towards  voting for the main alternatives, Green or Libertarian , to get them up over the 5% so they will qualify for federal funding and provide a real alternative in 8-12 years?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 08, 2016, 02:36:13 PM
He is not a Demtardlib . He is a very cute opportunist who understands what is going on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 09, 2016, 03:34:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 07, 2016, 10:30:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 07, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Suffice to say, in that case, that if he is a Democrat, and not an megalomaniacal conspiracy theorist, then the conservative movement in the US is made up of some of the dumbest, most ignorant, most ill-educated, naive morons ever to walk the earth.

That is precisely what's happening. These are the same clueless clowns who voted for the catastrophic presidency of George W Bush. Twice. And all because they thought they'd like to have a beer with the stupid p***k.

You are the dumbest **** I ever come across, you actually believe that shite!


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 09, 2016, 03:36:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2016, 02:36:13 PM
He is not a Demtardlib . He is a very cute opportunist who understands what is going on.

Fancy him do you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 09, 2016, 08:40:35 AM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 03:36:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2016, 02:36:13 PM
He is not a Demtardlib . He is a very cute opportunist who understands what is going on.

Fancy him do you?
No. I think with Killary / Trump there is nobody to vote for. But I think what he is doing is very interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 09, 2016, 10:51:32 AM
Part of me actually likes Trump. He knows that the big beast of the GOP is wounded and he is like a bullfighter teasing it. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Voy a contruir un pared

Done!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 07:17:34 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Voy a contruir un pared

Done!

Maybe he can hire them to build it. J-lo should be used to mixing mortar judging by the slap she puts on her face.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 09, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Pit bull and Lopez will sugar coat the deport them/ build the wall / Mexican rapist rhetoric?

Jenner will endorse that she has to use the men's room?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 10, 2016, 05:27:58 AM
Now some Muslims are going to be allowed in as well. ::)

Tomorrow he is gonna be telling us that we dont need to build the whole wall just a bit of it.

Im telling you when it comes to the Republican convention he is gonna come out and go "GOTCHA, SUCKERS!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on May 10, 2016, 09:00:51 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 07, 2016, 11:04:25 PM
In the increasingly likely event of a Trump v Clinton election is there any benefit in, or even a will for, a real push towards  voting for the main alternatives, Green or Libertarian , to get them up over the 5% so they will qualify for federal funding and provide a real alternative in 8-12 years?
bump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 10, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/trump-clinton-florida-ohio-pennsylvania-222994


interesting new Quinipiac polls....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Pit bull and Lopez will sugar coat the deport them/ build the wall / Mexican rapist rhetoric?

Jenner will endorse that she has to use the men's room?

Nope, all they need to do is say that Donald is a good man and worth voting for.

President Trump doesn't sound too far fetched anymore.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Pit bull and Lopez will sugar coat the deport them/ build the wall / Mexican rapist rhetoric?

Jenner will endorse that she has to use the men's room?

Nope, all they need to do is say that Donald is a good man and worth voting for.

President Trump doesn't sound too far fetched anymore.

That's all??  ;D

On the far fetched thing, I don't think it is either.

But that is not a reflection of his suitability as a candidate. This is a country after all where half the people are creationists and a party where many of the leading people, especially the current candidate, fanned the flames of the birther conspiracy, just to pander to their ignorant base.

An attack such as Trump's one on Cruz's father and his alleged connection to Lee Harvey Oswald would have finished any other candidate. But the people supporting Trump embrace the conspiracy shit and the insults.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Pit bull and Lopez will sugar coat the deport them/ build the wall / Mexican rapist rhetoric?

Jenner will endorse that she has to use the men's room?

Nope, all they need to do is say that Donald is a good man and worth voting for.

President Trump doesn't sound too far fetched anymore.

That's all??  ;D

On the far fetched thing, I don't think it is either.

But that is not a reflection of his suitability as a candidate. This is a country after all where half the people are creationists and a party where many of the leading people, especially the current candidate, fanned the flames of the birther conspiracy, just to pander to their ignorant base.


Could have said the same thing in 2008. You had John McCain who was a seasoned politician vs Barack Obama who had only 4 years in the senate. Do you not agree that Obama won due to a popularity/PC contest? Couldn't have been due to his record in office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Pit bull and Lopez will sugar coat the deport them/ build the wall / Mexican rapist rhetoric?

Jenner will endorse that she has to use the men's room?

Nope, all they need to do is say that Donald is a good man and worth voting for.

President Trump doesn't sound too far fetched anymore.

That's all??  ;D

On the far fetched thing, I don't think it is either.

But that is not a reflection of his suitability as a candidate. This is a country after all where half the people are creationists and a party where many of the leading people, especially the current candidate, fanned the flames of the birther conspiracy, just to pander to their ignorant base.


Could have said the same thing in 2008. You had John McCain who was a seasoned politician vs Barack Obama who had only 4 years in the senate. Do you not agree that Obama won due to a popularity/PC contest? Couldn't have been due to his record in office.

But I'm not talking about political experience.

I'm talking about the pure ignorance, incoherence,  cynicism, appeals to bigotry, thin skin and pattern of child-like insulting and boasting which pass for campaigning on the part of Trump.

If Cruz were the nominee and I was lamenting his lack of experience, then you would have a point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 05:05:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Pit bull and Lopez will sugar coat the deport them/ build the wall / Mexican rapist rhetoric?

Jenner will endorse that she has to use the men's room?

Nope, all they need to do is say that Donald is a good man and worth voting for.

President Trump doesn't sound too far fetched anymore.

That's all??  ;D

On the far fetched thing, I don't think it is either.

But that is not a reflection of his suitability as a candidate. This is a country after all where half the people are creationists and a party where many of the leading people, especially the current candidate, fanned the flames of the birther conspiracy, just to pander to their ignorant base.


Could have said the same thing in 2008. You had John McCain who was a seasoned politician vs Barack Obama who had only 4 years in the senate. Do you not agree that Obama won due to a popularity/PC contest? Couldn't have been due to his record in office.

But I'm not talking about political experience.

I'm talking about the pure ignorance, incoherence,  cynicism, appeals to bigotry, thin skin and pattern of child-like insulting and boasting which pass for campaigning on the part of Trump.

If Cruz were the nominee and I was lamenting his lack of experience, then you would have a point.

See 2008.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 10, 2016, 05:16:22 PM
Yeah, the McCain/Palin ticket sure did a lot of that in 2008. Well spotted Foxy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2016, 05:54:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 05:05:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:39:40 PM

But I'm not talking about political experience.

I'm talking about the pure ignorance, incoherence,  cynicism, appeals to bigotry, thin skin and pattern of child-like insulting and boasting which pass for campaigning on the part of Trump.

If Cruz were the nominee and I was lamenting his lack of experience, then you would have a point.

See 2008.

As Easytiger said, you can point to Palin for that in 2008.

You'll have to explain how Obama was in any way equivalent to the nonsense Trump has been coming out with.

And that's without even getting into the Mexican rapists/Fiorina's face/Megan Kelly's period/Jeb's low energy/Trump's very good brain and dick size/Cruz Senior's Oswald connection/Lyin' Ted etc. etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 10, 2016, 06:33:39 PM
Im confused foxy, do you support Trump (really support him like?) Or are you just winding? You seem to revel in his inconsistencies

I presume you all seen the cinco de mayo tweet?

(http://static.lakana.com/media.fox5ny.com/photo/2016/05/05/Trump_s_taco_0_1267166_ver1.0.jpg)

Apparently someone phoned them up and they dont even do taco bowls.  ;D ;D

The big reveal is coming at the Republican convention.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 05:54:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 05:05:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:39:40 PM

But I'm not talking about political experience.

I'm talking about the pure ignorance, incoherence,  cynicism, appeals to bigotry, thin skin and pattern of child-like insulting and boasting which pass for campaigning on the part of Trump.

If Cruz were the nominee and I was lamenting his lack of experience, then you would have a point.

See 2008.

As Easytiger said, you can point to Palin for that in 2008.

You'll have to explain how Obama was in any way equivalent to the nonsense Trump has been coming out with.

And that's without even getting into the Mexican rapists/Fiorina's face/Megan Kelly's period/Jeb's low energy/Trump's very good brain and dick size/Cruz Senior's Oswald connection/Lyin' Ted etc. etc.

How about this one...

Sen. Barack Obama's chief strategist conceded that the Democratic presidential candidate was referring to his race when he said Republicans were trying to scare voters by suggesting Obama "doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills."

The comment had triggered a charge Thursday from Sen. John McCain's campaign manager that Obama had "played the race card... from the bottom of the deck."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 10, 2016, 07:22:04 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-2008-mccain-attack-ads-darkened-obama-skin-tone/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-2008-mccain-attack-ads-darkened-obama-skin-tone/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2016, 07:47:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 05:54:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 05:05:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:39:40 PM

But I'm not talking about political experience.

I'm talking about the pure ignorance, incoherence,  cynicism, appeals to bigotry, thin skin and pattern of child-like insulting and boasting which pass for campaigning on the part of Trump.

If Cruz were the nominee and I was lamenting his lack of experience, then you would have a point.

See 2008.

As Easytiger said, you can point to Palin for that in 2008.

You'll have to explain how Obama was in any way equivalent to the nonsense Trump has been coming out with.

And that's without even getting into the Mexican rapists/Fiorina's face/Megan Kelly's period/Jeb's low energy/Trump's very good brain and dick size/Cruz Senior's Oswald connection/Lyin' Ted etc. etc.

How about this one...

Sen. Barack Obama's chief strategist conceded that the Democratic presidential candidate was referring to his race when he said Republicans were trying to scare voters by suggesting Obama "doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills."

The comment had triggered a charge Thursday from Sen. John McCain's campaign manager that Obama had "played the race card... from the bottom of the deck."

The same presidential race where "he's a Muslim","he's a terrorist", "he was born in Kenya" etc. etc. was the order of the day? Fox News and the "terrorist fist bump"?

You'll have to try harder to make the case that Obama even begins to approach anything Trump is coming out with weekly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 10, 2016, 08:38:31 PM
TBF to McCain he has usually come across as fairly sensible, with the exception of foreign policy where he is right little Napoleon.

He made a huge error selecting Palin as his running mate. But he would still have been unlikely to win, the Obama campaign had huge funding and successfully convinced people that they where part of some sort of grand social movement of change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2016, 09:10:52 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 10, 2016, 08:38:31 PM
TBF to McCain he has usually come across as fairly sensible, with the exception of foreign policy where he is right little Napoleon.

He made a huge error selecting Palin as his running mate. But he would still have been unlikely to win, the Obama campaign had huge funding and successfully convinced people that they where part of some sort of grand social movement of change.
He is not a lunatic Republican and has worked across the aisle unlike tea party fruitcakes such as Cruz. Bush 2 and Lehman meant he had no chance. Plus Obama had the hopey changey BS.
Moderate Republicans like McCain and Orrin Hatch have mostly been purged from the GOP in favour of extremists. The party is a massive cluster f**k that makes FF look serious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Pit bull and Lopez will sugar coat the deport them/ build the wall / Mexican rapist rhetoric?

Jenner will endorse that she has to use the men's room?

Nope, all they need to do is say that Donald is a good man and worth voting for.

President Trump doesn't sound too far fetched anymore.

That's all??  ;D

On the far fetched thing, I don't think it is either.

But that is not a reflection of his suitability as a candidate. This is a country after all where half the people are creationists and a party where many of the leading people, especially the current candidate, fanned the flames of the birther conspiracy, just to pander to their ignorant base.


Could have said the same thing in 2008. You had John McCain who was a seasoned politician vs Barack Obama who had only 4 years in the senate. Do you not agree that Obama won due to a popularity/PC contest? Couldn't have been due to his record in office.

But I'm not talking about political experience.


Of course not - it's irrelevant to the situation, isn't it? A catchphrase and a host of celeb endorsements is all you need.
Donald should give Oprah and Ellen a ring.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2016, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Pit bull and Lopez will sugar coat the deport them/ build the wall / Mexican rapist rhetoric?

Jenner will endorse that she has to use the men's room?

Nope, all they need to do is say that Donald is a good man and worth voting for.

President Trump doesn't sound too far fetched anymore.

That's all??  ;D

On the far fetched thing, I don't think it is either.

But that is not a reflection of his suitability as a candidate. This is a country after all where half the people are creationists and a party where many of the leading people, especially the current candidate, fanned the flames of the birther conspiracy, just to pander to their ignorant base.


Could have said the same thing in 2008. You had John McCain who was a seasoned politician vs Barack Obama who had only 4 years in the senate. Do you not agree that Obama won due to a popularity/PC contest? Couldn't have been due to his record in office.

But I'm not talking about political experience.


Of course not - it's irrelevant to the situation, isn't it? A catchphrase and a host of celeb endorsements is all you need.
Donald should give Oprah and Ellen a ring.

If a catchphrase and celeb endorsements is all that Trump needs, he should be in extremely good shape.

Of course, in reality, at least in the general election, it's not enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2016, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2016, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2016, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2016, 05:43:31 AM
Trump says he is gonna raise the minimum wage and tax the rich....looks like your right stew, he is a democratic plant after all!

He is a politician ffs, he will say or do anything to get elected, you do know this right?

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a non-politician who apparently "tells it like it is".

Yet, if you listen to his supporters, his key "quality" is that he is a politician who apparently "wants change".

Guess who?

and you fell for it. Dumbasses.

I didn't "fall" for anything.

I'm quite satisfied with Obama's performance, overall, especially in the face of unprecedented scorched earth political opposition and almost unprecedented financial conditions when he took over.

Now, do you have anything to say on the actual point I (and stew) was making, that Trump, while campaigning as a non-politician who is a straight talker, is actually a blowhard who will say anything and use any conspiracy theory, no matter how outlandish, on a given day, consistency be damned, to win support?

If he wants to beat Clinton he's going to have to. We'll wait to see him get endorsed by Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner for the LGBT vote and hire the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull to get his message across to the hispanic community.

He'll use every celeb going to try win this.

Pit bull and Lopez will sugar coat the deport them/ build the wall / Mexican rapist rhetoric?

Jenner will endorse that she has to use the men's room?

Nope, all they need to do is say that Donald is a good man and worth voting for.

President Trump doesn't sound too far fetched anymore.

That's all??  ;D

On the far fetched thing, I don't think it is either.

But that is not a reflection of his suitability as a candidate. This is a country after all where half the people are creationists and a party where many of the leading people, especially the current candidate, fanned the flames of the birther conspiracy, just to pander to their ignorant base.


Could have said the same thing in 2008. You had John McCain who was a seasoned politician vs Barack Obama who had only 4 years in the senate. Do you not agree that Obama won due to a popularity/PC contest? Couldn't have been due to his record in office.

But I'm not talking about political experience.


Of course not - it's irrelevant to the situation, isn't it? A catchphrase and a host of celeb endorsements is all you need.
Donald should give Oprah and Ellen a ring.

If a catchphrase and celeb endorsements is all that Trump needs, he should be in extremely good shape.

Of course, in reality, at least in the general election, it's not enough.

Trump needs to get votes from women and Hispanics without pissing off his base.
Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 11, 2016, 12:03:08 AM
Well he's leading Hillary in 3 swing states according to the latest polls....obviously someone is going to vote for him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 11, 2016, 02:36:33 AM
Ya wanna check your sources there fella?
Would those be the dead heats that the polls are referring to?

Or are these separate polls you did yourself?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 11, 2016, 04:26:21 AM
With Trump the candidate Texas Mississippi and Utah are now swing states
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blewuporstuffed on May 11, 2016, 08:26:42 AM
I watched this on Netflix last night and found it very interesting on how the US has gotten to where it is now in terms of inequality.
Unfortunately some of it rings true on this side of the Atlantic as well.

Requiem for the American dream

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3270538/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3270538/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on May 11, 2016, 09:56:10 AM

So sanders takes West Virginia comfortably ahead of Hillary (already won Nebraska in March).

Is it really inconceivable for Bernie to beat her?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 11, 2016, 10:18:12 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on May 11, 2016, 09:56:10 AM

So sanders takes West Virginia comfortably ahead of Hillary (already won Nebraska in March).

Is it really inconceivable for Bernie to beat her?

No... there are 1057 delegates left and Hilary only needs 150 odd of them!!!

Sanders is over 700 delegates behind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on May 11, 2016, 11:25:19 AM
Doesn't Clinton have load of "Super Delegates".  What are these and why can she count on their support?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 11, 2016, 12:25:39 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 11, 2016, 11:25:19 AM
Doesn't Clinton have load of "Super Delegates".  What are these and why can she count on their support?

I think they are elected Democrats who are entitled to vote individually as delegates in their own constituencies. They will usually vote with the 'establishment' and thus can help prevent maverick candidates like Trump getting nominated.

Think of a local FF Cumann and its delegates nominating, say, Panti Bliss and then the FF National Executive finding a way to make sure he either isn't on the ticket or a better candidate defeats him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2016, 01:42:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 11, 2016, 12:25:39 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 11, 2016, 11:25:19 AM
Doesn't Clinton have load of "Super Delegates".  What are these and why can she count on their support?

I think they are elected Democrats who are entitled to vote individually as delegates in their own constituencies. They will usually vote with the 'establishment' and thus can help prevent maverick candidates like Trump getting nominated.

Think of a local FF Cumann and its delegates nominating, say, Panti Bliss and then the FF National Executive finding a way to make sure he either isn't on the ticket or a better candidate defeats him.
Panto would be far superior to anyone on the FF front bench given the macro context.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2016, 01:44:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 11, 2016, 12:25:39 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 11, 2016, 11:25:19 AM
Doesn't Clinton have load of "Super Delegates".  What are these and why can she count on their support?

I think they are elected Democrats who are entitled to vote individually as delegates in their own constituencies. They will usually vote with the 'establishment' and thus can help prevent maverick candidates like Trump getting nominated.

Think of a local FF Cumann and its delegates nominating, say, Panti Bliss and then the FF National Executive finding a way to make sure he either isn't on the ticket or a better candidate defeats him.

Yep, the idea is to stop a very weak candidate being selected for the general election by ensuring the party powers-that-be retain some control of the process instead of putting it all in the hands of the voters. Implemented in the 80s after the Carter and McGovern candidacies. Didn't work for Mondale or Dukakis, but whatever the direct causes, the tickets have all been very competitive since, with the Democrats winning the popular vote every year since 1988 except for 2004.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2016, 02:29:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 11, 2016, 12:03:08 AM
Well he's leading Hillary in 3 swing states according to the latest polls....obviously someone is going to vote for him
its not so strange he's pretty close to her in some polls she is far from the ideal candidate
She is under investigation by the fbi ,she talks about Wall Street monopoly yet takes donations and gives speeches for big money from same financial institutes , not to mention the Clinton foundation who take money from any government or company who will give it to them some of which are unwise to accept to say the least . She didn't know what to do when the coal worker in West Virginia called her out on her comments on the putting all the coal miners out of work saying she was taken out of context , not to mention the Arab spring ,signing off as secetary of state on selling arms to very iffy countries who donate to Clinton foundation ,I could go on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 12, 2016, 06:57:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2016, 02:29:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 11, 2016, 12:03:08 AM
Well he's leading Hillary in 3 swing states according to the latest polls....obviously someone is going to vote for him
its not so strange he's pretty close to her in some polls she is far from the ideal candidate
She is under investigation by the fbi ,she talks about Wall Street monopoly yet takes donations and gives speeches for big money from same financial institutes , not to mention the Clinton foundation who take money from any government or company who will give it to them some of which are unwise to accept to say the least . She didn't know what to do when the coal worker in West Virginia called her out on her comments on the putting all the coal miners out of work saying she was taken out of context , not to mention the Arab spring ,signing off as secetary of state on selling arms to very iffy countries who donate to Clinton foundation ,I could go on

Lets face it Clinton is a shocking candidate. She has a graveyard full of skeletons, not very likeable, a political record that is hit or miss, questionable links to big finance, not to mention a federal investigation hanging over her head. With that as a starting point to run for president displays an infinite ego and an outrageous arrogance. She rode on the coat tails of Bill Clinton's and now Obama's popularity to get her to this point but she is going to get slaughtered by the opposition over the next 6 months. If the GOP had managed to field an anyway normal candidate I think they would have beaten her, and laughably its still possible even Trump could manage it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 12, 2016, 07:00:56 AM
BTW Trump latest skit is his taxes. He is refusing to release his Tax returns until his audit is finished, thing is it probably wont be finished until after the election. :D

Herself reckons it nothing to do with dodgy stuff he is trying to pull with the IRS, rather that it will show that he didnt actually make half as much money as he is letting on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 12, 2016, 07:59:37 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 12, 2016, 06:57:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2016, 02:29:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 11, 2016, 12:03:08 AM
Well he's leading Hillary in 3 swing states according to the latest polls....obviously someone is going to vote for him
its not so strange he's pretty close to her in some polls she is far from the ideal candidate
She is under investigation by the fbi ,she talks about Wall Street monopoly yet takes donations and gives speeches for big money from same financial institutes , not to mention the Clinton foundation who take money from any government or company who will give it to them some of which are unwise to accept to say the least . She didn't know what to do when the coal worker in West Virginia called her out on her comments on the putting all the coal miners out of work saying she was taken out of context , not to mention the Arab spring ,signing off as secetary of state on selling arms to very iffy countries who donate to Clinton foundation ,I could go on

Lets face it Clinton is a shocking candidate. She has a graveyard full of skeletons, not very likeable, a political record that is hit or miss, questionable links to big finance, not to mention a federal investigation hanging over her head. With that as a starting point to run for president displays an infinite ego and an outrageous arrogance. She rode on the coat tails of Bill Clinton's and now Obama's popularity to get her to this point but she is going to get slaughtered by the opposition over the next 6 months. If the GOP had managed to field an anyway normal candidate I think they would have beaten her, and laughably its still possible even Trump could manage it.
she is a dreadful candidate. So corrupt, vicious, lashed to Wall St, a warmonger. But she is still way ahead of Trumop
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 12, 2016, 08:46:34 AM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3c0cabbc-114c-11e6-91da-096d89bd2173.html




US: Neglected nation

Sam Fleming



 Share





 Print


 Clip







 Comments



From decaying bridges to poisoned water, fixing America's infrastructure could cost trillions



A collapsed bridge near Mount Vernon in Washington state

D

rew Galloway picks his way through the bowels of New York's dingy and chaotic Penn Station, shouting above the din of passing inter-city and commuter trains. The legacy of flood damage to the pair of railway tunnels that connect Manhattan with New Jersey, coupled with record passenger demand, is imposing a mounting strain on America's busiest railway terminus.

Eventually, says Mr Galloway, chief planner for Amtrak's north-east corridor, the tunnels will have to be closed and refurbished because of corrosion, potentially casting the economically critical artery into crisis.





More

On this topic
Disquiet over junk bond rally grows
US infrastructure decay to cost trillions
Trump v Clinton what it means for markets
US stock funds suffer $11bn of outflows

IN The Big Read
America's middle class meltdown
Auditing – Pitch battle
US tax havens – The new Switzerland
Bitcoin Identity crisis

"We are in a race to get new tunnels in place and complete them before we see some very significant disruptions taking place here," Mr Galloway says, surveying the subterranean spider's web of railway lines running underneath the station, which serves 600,000 passengers a day, according to Amtrak.

Delayed by political dogfights and still beset by funding doubts, the project to shore up services into Manhattan by boring two new railway tunnels under the Hudson River took a step forward at the end of last year, as state and federal leaders backed a new plan.

There is, however, a very long climb ahead for what is arguably the most economically sensitive US transport project — a plan costing upwards of $7.5bn that is crucial both to New York commuters and to rail services across the north-east of the country.

It comes amid rising public discontent over the deteriorating state of large tracts of US infrastructure, and anger from both sides of the political divide on the presidential campaign trail. Bridge collapses, train derailments, fires and shutdowns on the Washington DC metro, drought in the west and an appalling lead contamination scandal in Michigan have highlighted the legacy of decades of underfunding, mismanagement and neglect.

The American Society of Civil Engineers yesterday projected a $1.44tn investment funding gap between 2016 and 2025, warning of a mounting drag on business activity, exports and incomes.


Politicians are demanding action. Hillary Clinton, the Democratic frontrunner, has called for a $275bn spending blitz, including the creation of an infrastructure bank, recalling past glories such as the interstate highway system and Hoover Dam. Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, is bucking anti-spending dogma within the party by promising major programmes to renew infrastructure and create jobs — albeit without putting forward any detail on how to pay for them.




US infrastructure decay forecast to cost trillions

The San Francisco Skyline and the west span of the Oakland-San Francisco Bay Bridge is seen from a ferry in the San Francisco Bay in Alameda, California, U.S., on Thursday, June 20, 2013. Photographer: David Paul Morris/Bloomberg

Report finds under-investment will lead to lost business sales, rising costs and dented incomes

Without radical surgery, the decay in tunnels, railways and waterways will cost the US economy nearly $4tn in lost gross domestic product by 2025 as costs rise and productivity is impeded, according to estimates from the ASCE, dragging on a recovery in output that is the shallowest since the end of the second world war.

Faced with crimped public resources, President Barack Obama's administration and some states have tried to fill infrastructure gaps by luring in private investment, including from public-private partnerships or P3s.

A number of states and municipalities have lifted petrol taxes to pay for roads and bridges, even as the federal petrol tax that serves as the backbone of transport spending nationwide has remained frozen since 1993. Many argue that the recent fall in oil prices presented the perfect moment to raise petrol taxes.


Without breakthroughs in a divided Washington, experts fear worsening decay. "A lot is riding on the election," says Rosabeth Kanter, an academic at Harvard Business School and author of Move, a book on America's infrastructure shortfalls. "We need political will."

Squandered opportunity

Inadequate infrastructure is far from unique to the US. Public investment has been trending lower as a share of GDP in economies including Japan, Germany and France in recent decades. The International Monetary Fund has implored governments with fiscal wiggle room to loosen constraints on investment to combat moribund growth.

Anxiety about the topic in the US has become politically explosive. Economists such as Lawrence Summers, former Treasury secretary and Financial Times columnist, argue that increased public investment on infrastructure would essentially pay for itself via improved growth. That is strongly contested by Republicans who want to cut the role of the state as they sabre-rattle over public waste and a national debt of $19tn.

Public fixed capital investment
The debate is being inflamed by a number of scandals involving decaying infrastructure, at a time when mounting demands are being placed on it by a population set to grow by 60m over the next 25 years. These include the contamination of drinking water with lead in Flint, Michigan, which has been repeatedly cited by Mrs Clinton on the campaign trail as she and other Democrats accuse the Republican governor of the state of neglecting vulnerable citizens.

Even in the heart of Washington, Memorial Bridge, a symbolic link between the north and the south of the US, might have to be closed to traffic early in the next decade if major repairs are not carried out. Around the country more than 61,000 bridges were deemed structurally deficient in 2014.


Last year US public capital investment, which includes infrastructure, was just 3.4 per cent of GDP, or $611bn, according to the president's Council of Economic Advisers — the lowest in more than 60 years.

In the White House, the inability to do more to improve roads, bridges and other infrastructure is seen as one of the major policy failures since the crisis. Mr Obama last month bemoaned the absence of a major infrastructure programme from 2012 to 2014, when borrowing costs were low and the construction industry was short of jobs.

The administration included so-called shovel-ready infrastructure projects in its $800bn stimulus bill after Mr Obama took office, but the spending fell short of what was needed for repairs and to galvanise the economy.

Critics see it as a squandered opportunity. However, Jason Furman, chairman of the council, says Mr Obama made repeated attempts to get more money into infrastructure and was rebuffed. "Congress has been unwilling to substantially expand infrastructure investment — it is as simple as that," he says.

Ideological fight

There has been some progress. Last year Congress passed the first federal law in 10 years providing long-term funding for roads and other surface transportation. Yet the five-year, $305bn programme involved fiscal gimmicks, including an extraordinary raid on the Federal Reserve's capital funds.

Average age of US public infrastructure assets
Given the ideological divisions over public spending, however, some experts are gloomy about significant progress after the election. "There has been systemic under-investment at a state and federal level for over three decades and I see no immediate prospect of that being reversed," says Bill Galston of the Brookings Institution think-tank. He argues that a "mobilisation of private sector capital" is the most viable answer in an era of budgetary austerity.

The administration agrees: "We see a lot of potential with large sums of private capital on the sidelines looking for productive places to invest on one hand, and a significant US infrastructure deficit on the other," says Anthony Foxx, transportation secretary.

One answer is P3 deals, where the private sector provides funding for construction and maintenance in return for a stream of revenue, in theory bringing in better cost and project management than under traditional public sector contracts.

The government last year created a one-stop shop for sponsors and funders to smooth the way for more complex deals. A tax change was signed into law to open the door to greater investment by foreign funds.


Moody's, the credit rating agency, predicts that the US could become one of the biggest P3 markets. Major projects such as the overhaul of New York's LaGuardia Airport are in the pipeline. For the time being, however, P3s remain a small slice of the infrastructure pie, featuring in just 60 projects around the country as of 2015.

The US market has lagged behind Canada and some European countries in part because local governments have long been able to raise money cheaply via tax-free bonds — although that market is only slowly reviving after the recession that ended in 2009. A third of US states do not have laws that would allow P3s to be used, and sceptics fear they can be a costly way of delivering public services if poorly structured.

"The P3 market is a way to tackle some of those large and complex projects, and we will see more of these," says Jane Garvey of Meridiam, an investor involved in the Port of Miami Tunnel and other projects.

However, she says: "It is a misunderstanding to think that the private sector can solve it on its own. You have to have a revenue stream to pay it back. A strong federal programme is important."

Greg Stanton, the mayor of Phoenix, Arizona, says many local leaders are tired of waiting for a breakthrough in Washington and are instead forging ahead on their own. He says he was accused of being mad when he ran for re-election last year on a platform that included higher taxes to pay for a municipal transport overhaul.

Yet a majority of the city's population voted in favour of the consumption tax increase to fund a 35-year, $32bn plan that includes a tripling in the size of the city's light rail system. While there is some federal participation, it is smaller than in previous projects.

"The relationship between cities and Washington is fairly broken and it is never going back to what it was in the past," says Mr Stanton. "If we are going to advance as a city we need investment, and that will have to come much more from ourselves than directly from the federal government."

Taxing times

Some 18 states have pushed through increases or reforms to their petrol taxes to pay for infrastructure since 2013, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy says. "We are seeing many more states taking the initiative, and finding and identifying revenue streams they can use for infrastructure; that is a big step forward," says Ms Garvey.

Sitting in the depths of Penn Station, Mr Galloway of Amtrak says the plan to build new Hudson River tunnels and refurbish the existing ones — central to a broader regional transport overhaul called Gateway — will probably have to involve the private sector alongside state and federal backers. "When we look at federal funding sources it is very clear that all of them are heavily competed for by other projects," he says.

An earlier version of the Hudson River railway tunnel was scuppered by New Jersey governor Chris Christie in 2010 — a controversial move that many saw as political. The new project's advocates say it would be calamitous if this plan were to fail as well.

For the passengers whose trains rattle through this vital route into America's biggest city, a huge amount is at stake. "We have to figure out a way to make this happen," says Mr Galloway.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 12, 2016, 09:18:29 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 12, 2016, 07:00:56 AM
BTW Trump latest skit is his taxes. He is refusing to release his Tax returns until his audit is finished, thing is it probably wont be finished until after the election. :D

Herself reckons it nothing to do with dodgy stuff he is trying to pull with the IRS, rather that it will show that he didnt actually make half as much money as he is letting on.

Wouldn't surprise me I saw an interview with the guy from Forbes who says Trump nearly stalks him every year the rich list comes out saying that Forbes have undervalued him...

http://www.forbes.com/donald-trump/#677a763d790b
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2016, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 11, 2016, 02:36:33 AM
Ya wanna check your sources there fella?
Would those be the dead heats that the polls are referring to?

Or are these separate polls you did yourself?

Lo...I was so excited when I saw the headline I left out the "or level with" part.

It's gonna get interesting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2016, 01:28:34 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 12, 2016, 07:00:56 AM
BTW Trump latest skit is his taxes. He is refusing to release his Tax returns until his audit is finished, thing is it probably wont be finished until after the election. :D

Herself reckons it nothing to do with dodgy stuff he is trying to pull with the IRS, rather that it will show that he didnt actually make half as much money as he is letting on.

Its ironic that Romney is now charging that Trump has something to hide, when four years ago Trump was urging Romney to release his tax returns!

I would agree with your missus - he's probably not near as wealthy as he's claiming.

Or maybe there are some dodgy foreign entanglements or conflicts of interest or offshore accounts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2016, 02:10:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2016, 01:28:34 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 12, 2016, 07:00:56 AM
BTW Trump latest skit is his taxes. He is refusing to release his Tax returns until his audit is finished, thing is it probably wont be finished until after the election. :D

Herself reckons it nothing to do with dodgy stuff he is trying to pull with the IRS, rather that it will show that he didnt actually make half as much money as he is letting on.

Its ironic that Romney is now charging that Trump has something to hide, when four years ago Trump was urging Romney to release his tax returns!

I would agree with your missus - he's probably not near as wealthy as he's claiming.

Or maybe there are some dodgy foreign entanglements or conflicts of interest or offshore accounts.

Whats interesting is that unlike most candidates who release their tax filings to show they pay their "fair share", Trump has boasted that he pays as little as possible because the government wastes it. 


The irony is that the Kennedys, Clintons and Heinz-Kerrys,  use very similar tax shelters to those that wealthy Republicans use but yet have the audactity   to lecture the rest of us about paying our fair share
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 12, 2016, 02:18:43 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-nominates-then-dumps-white-supremacist-as-a-gop-convention-delegate/2016/05/11/20281480-17a1-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-nominates-then-dumps-white-supremacist-as-a-gop-convention-delegate/2016/05/11/20281480-17a1-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html)

Damn database errors
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 13, 2016, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 11, 2016, 08:26:42 AM
I watched this on Netflix last night and found it very interesting on how the US has gotten to where it is now in terms of inequality.
Unfortunately some of it rings true on this side of the Atlantic as well.

Requiem for the American dream

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3270538/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3270538/)

great watch :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 13, 2016, 01:36:47 PM

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/05/06/trumps-long-game-becoming-general-election-candidate/
Trump has also been successful at branding his opponents. He knows how to do that: pick a perceived weakness, give it a name, and repeat, repeat, repeat, ad infinitum. Toward the end of the primaries he had his audiences cheerfully chanting "Lyin' Ted," and soon enough they'll be saying "Crooked Hillary." (Trump toyed with "Incompetent Hillary" for a while, but then alighted on the sharper and more damaging appellation.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 13, 2016, 01:39:09 PM
Luckily for Hillary, Trump and his GOP competitors have provided fodder galore for her in this campaign alone, before she even begins to delve into his past.

It is going to be nasty!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 13, 2016, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2016, 01:39:09 PM
Luckily for Hillary, Trump and his GOP competitors have provided fodder galore for her in this campaign alone, before she even begins to delve into his past.

It is going to be nasty!
Brutal. And it'll mean the next admin has a huge challenge to rule the country
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:21:41 AM
Oh boy, the Donald says all lives matter, strapon and the prez say black lives matter, trump wants to create jobs and strapon wants to put the coal miners out of  business.

All lives matter, hmmm, what a concept!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:36:17 AM
Clinton is on record as stating that the black lives matter folks, she spoke of the way the black lives matter people 'acted with dignity' when protesting on the streets, the same people who chanted ' what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it? NOW.

Another gem is ' pigs in a blanket,fry em like bacon' I mean there is such dignity in those statements!

f**k black lives matter and the political whore who fawns over them for their vote and who will not give a shite about them the second she gets elected.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:04:17 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:21:41 AM
Oh boy, the Donald says all lives matter, strapon and the prez say black lives matter, trump wants to create jobs and strapon wants to put the coal miners out of  business.

All lives matter, hmmm, what a concept!

More dishonest bollocks.

You know very well that the "All Lives Matter" bullshit is just an attempt to deny the legitimacy of black complaints about their treatment at the hands of the justice system. Its "Black Lives Matter Too", NOT "Only Black Lives Matter"

And the reason you know this is because we've had this conversation a number of times in which you've never refuted that distinction.

That aside, are you now coming around to Trump?

As for "strapon" - are you 12?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:36:17 AM
Clinton is on record as stating that the black lives matter folks, she spoke of the way the black lives matter people 'acted with dignity' when protesting on the streets, the same people who chanted ' what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it? NOW.

Another gem is ' pigs in a blanket,fry em like bacon' I mean there is such dignity in those statements!

f**k black lives matter and the political whore who fawns over them for their vote and who will not give a shite about them the second she gets elected.

I know this is a waste of time, because I've asked you this before, but here goes...

There was one incident of BLM protestors using the "pigs in a blanket" chant in MN. Are there any others?

And if not, should a single chant be used to define a group at the expense of all else they do?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:11:40 PM
And on the BLM issue, that piece of human excrement, George Zimmerman, is putting a "piece of American history" i.e. the gun he used to kill Trayvon Martin in an altercation HE initiated and could have avoided, up for sale on the internet. Apparently some of the proceeds will be used to fight BLM and Obama.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36281438 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36281438)

I'm not one to wish violence or harm to anyone, but I will not have a shred of sympathy for this piece of pondscum when the day comes that he picks on the wrong person or some equally moronic idiot decides to make a name for himself by offing him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 14, 2016, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:04:17 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:21:41 AM
Oh boy, the Donald says all lives matter, strapon and the prez say black lives matter, trump wants to create jobs and strapon wants to put the coal miners out of  business.

All lives matter, hmmm, what a concept!

More dishonest bollocks.

You know very well that the "All Lives Matter" bullshit is just an attempt to deny the legitimacy of black complaints about their treatment at the hands of the justice system. Its "Black Lives Matter Too", NOT "Only Black Lives Matter"

And the reason you know this is because we've had this conversation a number of times in which you've never refuted that distinction.

That aside, are you now coming around to Trump.

As for "strapon" - are you 12?

Black lives matter started out as a legitimate protest group, they became a hate group that is divisive and morally reprehensible, it is also backed by the bern and killory.

I am not now nor will I ever come around to Trump.

As for strapon, I hate the ****, deal with it!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 14, 2016, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:36:17 AM
Clinton is on record as stating that the black lives matter folks, she spoke of the way the black lives matter people 'acted with dignity' when protesting on the streets, the same people who chanted ' what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it? NOW.

Another gem is ' pigs in a blanket,fry em like bacon' I mean there is such dignity in those statements!

f**k black lives matter and the political whore who fawns over them for their vote and who will not give a shite about them the second she gets elected.

I know this is a waste of time, because I've asked you this before, but here goes...

There was one incident of BLM protestors using the "pigs in a blanket" chant in MN. Are there any others?

And if not, should a single chant be used to define a group at the expense of all else they do?

One of the founders tweeted about killing white people, does that count?

One chant? What f**king planet do you live on?

Why do they not speak out on black on black crime?

To me at this point they are turning into a separatist organization that blindly ignores the damage their own people are doing to each other and unfortunately the fundamental issue they have, the one were their people are being killed by overzealous and in some cases, racist cops, is being marginalized based on their anti social behavior.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:04:17 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:21:41 AM
Oh boy, the Donald says all lives matter, strapon and the prez say black lives matter, trump wants to create jobs and strapon wants to put the coal miners out of  business.

All lives matter, hmmm, what a concept!

More dishonest bollocks.

You know very well that the "All Lives Matter" bullshit is just an attempt to deny the legitimacy of black complaints about their treatment at the hands of the justice system. Its "Black Lives Matter Too", NOT "Only Black Lives Matter"

And the reason you know this is because we've had this conversation a number of times in which you've never refuted that distinction.

That aside, are you now coming around to Trump.

As for "strapon" - are you 12?

Black lives matter started out as a legitimate protest group, they became a hate group that is divisive and morally reprehensible, it is also backed by the bern and killory.

I am not now nor will I ever come around to Trump.

As for strapon, I hate the ****, deal with it!

A couple of chants in a group which is made up of disparate, decentralized units does not make it a hate group. If so, where does that leave the tea party and much of the Republican base?

I don't care about the "strapon" bit (although one does wonder why you would choose THAT label!). Just don't think it does any favours for an argument when one has to resort to name calling. And as for "hating" Hillary Clinton... do you "hate" many politicians?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:52:20 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:36:17 AM
Clinton is on record as stating that the black lives matter folks, she spoke of the way the black lives matter people 'acted with dignity' when protesting on the streets, the same people who chanted ' what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it? NOW.

Another gem is ' pigs in a blanket,fry em like bacon' I mean there is such dignity in those statements!

f**k black lives matter and the political whore who fawns over them for their vote and who will not give a shite about them the second she gets elected.

I know this is a waste of time, because I've asked you this before, but here goes...

There was one incident of BLM protestors using the "pigs in a blanket" chant in MN. Are there any others?

And if not, should a single chant be used to define a group at the expense of all else they do?

One of the founders tweeted about killing white people, does that count?

One chant? What f**king planet do you live on?

Why do they not speak out on black on black crime?

To me at this point they are turning into a separatist organization that blindly ignores the damage their own people are doing to each other and unfortunately the fundamental issue they have, the one were their people are being killed by overzealous and in some cases, racist cops, is being marginalized based on their anti social behavior.

Again, one idiotic tweet, about cursing out/killing white people, while damaging - how is that more defining than the hundreds of peaceful protests?

And yes, I'm sure you think they're turning into harmful group when the only news you read about them is when something like the tweet in question occurs. The other more mundane stuff is old news at this point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2016, 12:57:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:11:40 PM
And on the BLM issue, that piece of human excrement, George Zimmerman, is putting a "piece of American history" i.e. the gun he used to kill Trayvon Martin in an altercation HE initiated and could have avoided, up for sale on the internet. Apparently some of the proceeds will be used to fight BLM and Obama.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36281438 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36281438)

I'm not one to wish violence or harm to anyone, but I will not have a shred of sympathy for this piece of pondscum when the day comes that he picks on the wrong person or some equally moronic idiot decides to make a name for himself by offing him.

Why would he spend money "fighting Obama"......Obama is going to be out of office 6 months from now? 

Anyway whats he going to get for the gun?????

Maybe a couple of thousand dollars......hes going to do shag all of anything with that amount (especially given that hes dead broke by some accounts)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/us/george-zimmerman-gun-auction-trayvon-martin.html?_r=0

"Mr. Zimmerman, 32, announced that he intended to auction the handgun used in the killing in Sanford, Fla. He said that the firearm had recently been returned to him by the Justice Department and that he hoped to use some of the proceeds to fight violence against law enforcement officers by members of Black Lives Matter; to ensure "the demise" of the career of Angela Corey, the prosecutor who put him on trial; and to counter Hillary Clinton's "anti-firearm rhetoric."

And for the record, I think Zimmerman should be serving 20 to life for what he did. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2016, 01:03:40 PM
Apparently some trolls upped the bid to 65 million before their accounts were pulled! ;D

But the sad thing is some idiot somewhere will fork out a few tens of thousands for this gun.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 14, 2016, 01:37:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:04:17 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:21:41 AM
Oh boy, the Donald says all lives matter, strapon and the prez say black lives matter, trump wants to create jobs and strapon wants to put the coal miners out of  business.

All lives matter, hmmm, what a concept!

More dishonest bollocks.

You know very well that the "All Lives Matter" bullshit is just an attempt to deny the legitimacy of black complaints about their treatment at the hands of the justice system. Its "Black Lives Matter Too", NOT "Only Black Lives Matter"

And the reason you know this is because we've had this conversation a number of times in which you've never refuted that distinction.

That aside, are you now coming around to Trump.

As for "strapon" - are you 12?

Black lives matter started out as a legitimate protest group, they became a hate group that is divisive and morally reprehensible, it is also backed by the bern and killory.

I am not now nor will I ever come around to Trump.

As for strapon, I hate the ****, deal with it!

A couple of chants in a group which is made up of disparate, decentralized units does not make it a hate group. If so, where does that leave the tea party and much of the Republican base?

I don't care about the "strapon" bit (although one does wonder why you would choose THAT label!). Just don't think it does any favours for an argument when one has to resort to name calling. And as for "hating" Hillary Clinton... do you "hate" many politicians?

There are a lot of racists in the tea party, I knew some of them and worked with some of their kids, why do you bring up the tea party and republican party base when we are talking about black lives matter, what have you to say about the founder tweeting about killing whites and specifically white men?

I hated Thatcher and Pelosi, Seawright was another I would have hated in my lifetime, that's about it really, hope this helps.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 14, 2016, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 01:37:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:04:17 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:21:41 AM
Oh boy, the Donald says all lives matter, strapon and the prez say black lives matter, trump wants to create jobs and strapon wants to put the coal miners out of  business.

All lives matter, hmmm, what a concept!

More dishonest bollocks.

You know very well that the "All Lives Matter" bullshit is just an attempt to deny the legitimacy of black complaints about their treatment at the hands of the justice system. Its "Black Lives Matter Too", NOT "Only Black Lives Matter"

And the reason you know this is because we've had this conversation a number of times in which you've never refuted that distinction.

That aside, are you now coming around to Trump.

As for "strapon" - are you 12?

Black lives matter started out as a legitimate protest group, they became a hate group that is divisive and morally reprehensible, it is also backed by the bern and killory.

I am not now nor will I ever come around to Trump.

As for strapon, I hate the ****, deal with it!

A couple of chants in a group which is made up of disparate, decentralized units does not make it a hate group. If so, where does that leave the tea party and much of the Republican base?

I don't care about the "strapon" bit (although one does wonder why you would choose THAT label!). Just don't think it does any favours for an argument when one has to resort to name calling. And as for "hating" Hillary Clinton... do you "hate" many politicians?

There are a lot of racists in the tea party, I knew some of them and worked with some of their kids, why do you bring up the tea party and republican party base when we are talking about black lives matter, what have you to say about the founder tweeting about killing whites and specifically white men?

I hated Thatcher and Pelosi, Seawright was another I would have hated in my lifetime, that's about it really, hope this helps.

You lefties are great at downplaying the scum element if the Dem support, how about you call the bastards that wanted to fry the pigs in a blanket what they are and admit they should be in prison for  incitement to hatred.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2016, 06:59:42 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 01:37:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:04:17 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:21:41 AM
Oh boy, the Donald says all lives matter, strapon and the prez say black lives matter, trump wants to create jobs and strapon wants to put the coal miners out of  business.

All lives matter, hmmm, what a concept!

More dishonest bollocks.

You know very well that the "All Lives Matter" bullshit is just an attempt to deny the legitimacy of black complaints about their treatment at the hands of the justice system. Its "Black Lives Matter Too", NOT "Only Black Lives Matter"

And the reason you know this is because we've had this conversation a number of times in which you've never refuted that distinction.

That aside, are you now coming around to Trump.

As for "strapon" - are you 12?

Black lives matter started out as a legitimate protest group, they became a hate group that is divisive and morally reprehensible, it is also backed by the bern and killory.

I am not now nor will I ever come around to Trump.

As for strapon, I hate the ****, deal with it!

A couple of chants in a group which is made up of disparate, decentralized units does not make it a hate group. If so, where does that leave the tea party and much of the Republican base?

I don't care about the "strapon" bit (although one does wonder why you would choose THAT label!). Just don't think it does any favours for an argument when one has to resort to name calling. And as for "hating" Hillary Clinton... do you "hate" many politicians?

There are a lot of racists in the tea party, I knew some of them and worked with some of their kids, why do you bring up the tea party and republican party base when we are talking about black lives matter, what have you to say about the founder tweeting about killing whites and specifically white men?

I hated Thatcher and Pelosi, Seawright was another I would have hated in my lifetime, that's about it really, hope this helps.

You lefties are great at downplaying the scum element if the Dem support, how about you call the b**tards that wanted to fry the pigs in a blanket what they are and admit they should be in prison for  incitement to hatred.

I have absolutely no problem calling someone  who would call for killing cops a sc**bag.

I brought up the tea party because by your standard i.e. using the rhetoric and chants and slogans  of the few to define the movement, they are a racist, bigoted hate group.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 14, 2016, 07:25:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:52:20 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2016, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: stew on May 14, 2016, 10:36:17 AM
Clinton is on record as stating that the black lives matter folks, she spoke of the way the black lives matter people 'acted with dignity' when protesting on the streets, the same people who chanted ' what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it? NOW.

Another gem is ' pigs in a blanket,fry em like bacon' I mean there is such dignity in those statements!

f**k black lives matter and the political whore who fawns over them for their vote and who will not give a shite about them the second she gets elected.

I know this is a waste of time, because I've asked you this before, but here goes...

There was one incident of BLM protestors using the "pigs in a blanket" chant in MN. Are there any others?

And if not, should a single chant be used to define a group at the expense of all else they do?

One of the founders tweeted about killing white people, does that count?

One chant? What f**king planet do you live on?

Why do they not speak out on black on black crime?

To me at this point they are turning into a separatist organization that blindly ignores the damage their own people are doing to each other and unfortunately the fundamental issue they have, the one were their people are being killed by overzealous and in some cases, racist cops, is being marginalized based on their anti social behavior.

Again, one idiotic tweet, about cursing out/killing white people, while damaging - how is that more defining than the hundreds of peaceful protests?

And yes, I'm sure you think they're turning into harmful group when the only news you read about them is when something like the tweet in question occurs. The other more mundane stuff is old news at this point.

BLM is a racist group that should be made illegal due to its hate messages.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 15, 2016, 05:39:07 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/general-election-will-prove-daunting-for-trump/2016/05/14/ef865dda-1982-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

These analyses make for intetesting reading. Good odds on Hillary eclipsing Obsma's electoral college results from the re-election

Romney out there seeking a third way candidate to save the GOP majority in the state races. Quite a few sitting representatives looking like they are in diffs as the recent tend is to vote single party in the return.

Could the anti-Trump sentiment swing the trifecta of president, house and senate?

P.s.  Would you wise up on the BLM stuff you're making yourselves look like the worst kind of bigot. Same goes for the transgender bathroom "debate". What next "God controls the weather"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 15, 2016, 08:20:21 AM
Quote from: heganboy on May 15, 2016, 05:39:07 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/general-election-will-prove-daunting-for-trump/2016/05/14/ef865dda-1982-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

These analyses make for intetesting reading. Good odds on Hillary eclipsing Obsma's electoral college results from the re-election

Romney out there seeking a third way candidate to save the GOP majority in the state races. Quite a few sitting representatives looking like they are in diffs as the recent tend is to vote single party in the return.

Could the anti-Trump sentiment swing the trifecta of president, house and senate?

P.s.  Would you wise up on the BLM stuff you're making yourselves look like the worst kind of bigot. Same goes for the transgender bathroom "debate". What next "God controls the weather"?
GOP will probably lose the Senate with a Base that hates the leaders
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 16, 2016, 12:46:37 PM
Clinton is in deep shit, the left wing media has been fawning all over her, the pollsters tried to make out Trump had no chance against her yet head to head they are in a statistical tie, the bern would be hammering Trump at this stage of the game.

The Clinton foundation is under serious investigation for fraudulent behaviour, Killory is under investigation for the email scandal, has lied through her arse about the whole thing, denied deleting emails and unless Obama steps in she should and will be in prison.

Do i think she will do time? No, that said, she is a hated political establishment figure and the never Hillary campaign is gaining serious momentum.

Both parties are a mess and a joke at the same time, Trump is changing his stance on just about everything he has said and the Bern continues to gather momentum and is absolutely destroying Clinton's run to the white house, by the way, it was great to see the democrats fighting the other day, Berns people were thrown out of the auditorium after spewing hate at the Clinton supporters, why the Berns supporters were thrown out and not Killorys is interesting in itself.

A Chinese philosopher once said 'may you live in interesting times' I certainly think our time, right now, is about as interesting gkobakly as you can get.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2016, 01:50:55 PM
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Y2119

This is far from over and the Bernie supporters are getting more agitated by the day. There could be an absolute shit show at the Democratic convention if this thing keeps boiling away

On the email "scandal", mysteriously Hillarys IT guys emails have also magically disappeared
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 16, 2016, 02:36:40 PM
John Kerry is the first US Secretary of State to primarily rely on a state.gov email address.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2016, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 02:36:40 PM
John Kerry is the first US Secretary of State to primarily rely on a state.gov email address.

Maybe, but did anyone else go back in and delete tens of thousands of emails?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 16, 2016, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2016, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 02:36:40 PM
John Kerry is the first US Secretary of State to primarily rely on a state.gov email address.

Maybe, but did anyone else go back in and delete tens of thousands of emails?

Clinton is the only Secretary anyone is interested in. National Security isn't about national security, it is about politics.

Colin Powell deleted them all. He said he has none to turn over. Nada.

Rice and Albright said they rarely used email, the latter's claim being a lot more credible imho than the former's, remember Rice was Secretary until 2009.

Some common sense would be useful, but we are unlikely to see any.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2016, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2016, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 02:36:40 PM
John Kerry is the first US Secretary of State to primarily rely on a state.gov email address.

Maybe, but did anyone else go back in and delete tens of thousands of emails?

Clinton is the only Secretary anyone is interested in. National Security isn't about national security, it is about politics.

Colin Powell deleted them all. He said he has none to turn over. Nada.

Rice and Albright said they rarely used email, the latter's claim being a lot more credible imho than the former's, remember Rice was Secretary until 2009.

Some common sense would be useful, but we are unlikely to see any.

Can you point me to the link where he said he deleted them....I searched and cant find one


What I read  he said was that "he has none to turn over". Big difference between saying that and willfully and deliberately deleting them from a private server that no one else has access to once they are under congressional subponea
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 16, 2016, 07:36:45 PM
Just read there about Trump in March who insulted women by talking about Megyn Kelly menstruating in order to get her to STFU which turned off a lot of GOP women. He hasn't a hope of getting elected with that sort of attitude.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 16, 2016, 08:38:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2016, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2016, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 02:36:40 PM
John Kerry is the first US Secretary of State to primarily rely on a state.gov email address.

Maybe, but did anyone else go back in and delete tens of thousands of emails?

Clinton is the only Secretary anyone is interested in. National Security isn't about national security, it is about politics.

Colin Powell deleted them all. He said he has none to turn over. Nada.

Rice and Albright said they rarely used email, the latter's claim being a lot more credible imho than the former's, remember Rice was Secretary until 2009.

Some common sense would be useful, but we are unlikely to see any.

Can you point me to the link where he said he deleted them....I searched and cant find one


What I read  he said was that "he has none to turn over". Big difference between saying that and willfully and deliberately deleting them from a private server that no one else has access to once they are under congressional subponea

I am looking and can't find what I thought I read, so maybe I have that wrong.

However, I have found link categorising him as an email user and also something like your quote: 'he has none to turn over' (see bold below), so maybe that is how I made the jump. But I accept your point that the word 'delete' would be too strong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/09/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-said-my-predecessors-did-same-thin/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/09/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-said-my-predecessors-did-same-thin/)

"......So that leaves Powell, a regular email user, as Clinton's only predecessor who serves as a useful comparison. When we reached out to the Clinton campaign, they pointed us to Powell.

Like Clinton, Powell used a personal email address. However, there's a big difference: Clinton hosted her email on a private server located in her home. Powell did not...."

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-personal-email-secretary-of-state-115707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-personal-email-secretary-of-state-115707)

"...The Times story also mentioned that Powell "used personal email to communicate with American officials and ambassadors and foreign leaders."
The statement continues: "He did not take any hard copies of emails with him when he left office and has no record of the emails. They were all unclassified and mostly of a housekeeping nature. He came into office encouraging the use of emails as a way of getting the staff to embrace the new 21st information world......"


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 16, 2016, 09:18:09 PM
Tu quoque

Seriously Muppet what is with you and the Clinton lovein?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2016, 12:32:47 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 08:38:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2016, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2016, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 02:36:40 PM
John Kerry is the first US Secretary of State to primarily rely on a state.gov email address.

Maybe, but did anyone else go back in and delete tens of thousands of emails?

Clinton is the only Secretary anyone is interested in. National Security isn't about national security, it is about politics.

Colin Powell deleted them all. He said he has none to turn over. Nada.

Rice and Albright said they rarely used email, the latter's claim being a lot more credible imho than the former's, remember Rice was Secretary until 2009.

Some common sense would be useful, but we are unlikely to see any.

Can you point me to the link where he said he deleted them....I searched and cant find one


What I read  he said was that "he has none to turn over". Big difference between saying that and willfully and deliberately deleting them from a private server that no one else has access to once they are under congressional subponea

I am looking and can't find what I thought I read, so maybe I have that wrong.

However, I have found link categorising him as an email user and also something like your quote: 'he has none to turn over' (see bold below), so maybe that is how I made the jump. But I accept your point that the word 'delete' would be too strong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/09/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-said-my-predecessors-did-same-thin/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/09/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-said-my-predecessors-did-same-thin/)

"......So that leaves Powell, a regular email user, as Clinton's only predecessor who serves as a useful comparison. When we reached out to the Clinton campaign, they pointed us to Powell.

Like Clinton, Powell used a personal email address. However, there's a big difference: Clinton hosted her email on a private server located in her home. Powell did not...."

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-personal-email-secretary-of-state-115707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-personal-email-secretary-of-state-115707)

"...The Times story also mentioned that Powell "used personal email to communicate with American officials and ambassadors and foreign leaders."
The statement continues: "He did not take any hard copies of emails with him when he left office and has no record of the emails. They were all unclassified and mostly of a housekeeping nature. He came into office encouraging the use of emails as a way of getting the staff to embrace the new 21st information world......"

See....that's exactly what they want you to think you read. 

They imply that what Hillary did not a big deal because sure didn't all the previous Secretaries of State do exactly the same (when if fact they did nothing of the sort)

The term they use for this technique is a false equivalency

http://www.wsj.com/articles/clintons-false-email-equivalence-1454716185
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 17, 2016, 12:43:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 12:32:47 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 08:38:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2016, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2016, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2016, 02:36:40 PM
John Kerry is the first US Secretary of State to primarily rely on a state.gov email address.

Maybe, but did anyone else go back in and delete tens of thousands of emails?

Clinton is the only Secretary anyone is interested in. National Security isn't about national security, it is about politics.

Colin Powell deleted them all. He said he has none to turn over. Nada.

Rice and Albright said they rarely used email, the latter's claim being a lot more credible imho than the former's, remember Rice was Secretary until 2009.

Some common sense would be useful, but we are unlikely to see any.

Can you point me to the link where he said he deleted them....I searched and cant find one


What I read  he said was that "he has none to turn over". Big difference between saying that and willfully and deliberately deleting them from a private server that no one else has access to once they are under congressional subponea

I am looking and can't find what I thought I read, so maybe I have that wrong.

However, I have found link categorising him as an email user and also something like your quote: 'he has none to turn over' (see bold below), so maybe that is how I made the jump. But I accept your point that the word 'delete' would be too strong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/09/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-said-my-predecessors-did-same-thin/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/09/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-said-my-predecessors-did-same-thin/)

"......So that leaves Powell, a regular email user, as Clinton's only predecessor who serves as a useful comparison. When we reached out to the Clinton campaign, they pointed us to Powell.

Like Clinton, Powell used a personal email address. However, there's a big difference: Clinton hosted her email on a private server located in her home. Powell did not...."

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-personal-email-secretary-of-state-115707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-personal-email-secretary-of-state-115707)

"...The Times story also mentioned that Powell "used personal email to communicate with American officials and ambassadors and foreign leaders."
The statement continues: "He did not take any hard copies of emails with him when he left office and has no record of the emails. They were all unclassified and mostly of a housekeeping nature. He came into office encouraging the use of emails as a way of getting the staff to embrace the new 21st information world......"

See....that's exactly what they want you to think you read. 

They imply that what Hillary did not a big deal because sure didn't all the previous Secretaries of State do exactly the same (when if fact they did nothing of the sort)

The term they use for this technique is a false equivalency

http://www.wsj.com/articles/clintons-false-email-equivalence-1454716185

You can persuade me that Hillary is flawed, but I don't expect anyone, let alone politicians to be perfect.

But Trump?

No way.

As for Powell, I liked him. If it were between him and Hillary I'd go for Powell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2016, 01:03:50 AM
IMHO the Clintons have gotten away with murder for years, aided and abetted in large part by a very sympathetic mainstream media.

The problem for them today is that most people don't solely rely on the MSM for their news.....they get it from lots of different sources

The Clintons were/are excellent liars, but in the era of instant fact check their bullshit doesn't fly any more

Perfect example is Bill and Hillary Clinton claiming on the campaign that Bernie also got paid for speeches (the old false equivalency) so why was everyone ganging up on poor Hillary. Bernie gave one speech for $500 which he donated to a real charity (not the Clinton Foundation). Within minutes the Clintons were being ridiculed over social media for making such an outrageous claim.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/sanders-shatters-clintons_b_9276584.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 17, 2016, 01:27:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 01:03:50 AM
IMHO the Clintons have gotten away with murder for years, aided and abetted in large part by a very sympathetic mainstream media.

The problem for them today is that most people don't solely rely on the MSM for their news.....they get it from lots of different sources

The Clintons were/are excellent liars, but in the era of instant fact check their bullshit doesn't fly any more

Perfect example is Bill and Hillary Clinton claiming on the campaign that Bernie also got paid for speeches (the old false equivalency) so why was everyone ganging up on poor Hillary. Bernie gave one speech for $500 which he donated to a real charity (not the Clinton Foundation). Within minutes the Clintons were being ridiculed over social media for making such an outrageous claim.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/sanders-shatters-clintons_b_9276584.html

What have they got away with though?

Bill Clinton was dogged by sex scandals from before the 1992 NH primary. Then all kinds of scandals and conspiracies were continually thrown up and investigated, culminating in him lying under oath about a bj from an intern and getting impeached. Just because Bill Clinton kept getting up and coming back doesn't mean that the media weren't doing their job. The Washington Post broke and hyped Whitewater. The NY Times hammered him over Lewinsky. Are those not the epitome of the so-called MSM? It wasn't just Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News going after Clinton, although they did drive the Vince Foster type conspiracy shit. Has there been a president MORE investigated by Congress than him?

Same with Hillary. If even a quarter of the effort was put into investigating the Iraq War as has been put into investigating and hyping Benghazi and these emails, the Bush administration would have been tied in knots fighting scandals. If you want to talk about a compliant media, look no further than the rush to the Iraq war. And how many congressional and agency investigations have there been into Benghazi and the emails?

Is the real "problem" not that they usually seem to beat these charges, whether due to them being trumped up or lacking in evidence, rather than them not being investigated and reported?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 17, 2016, 11:06:39 AM
the actual issue with false equivalence is the perpetuation of the myth that the make up of both parties in the US is broadly similar in terms of moderates and hardliners.

The truth not surprisingly is somewhat different:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/how-the-press-can-deal-with-the-benghazi-committee/410251/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2016, 11:31:12 AM
Quote from: heganboy on May 17, 2016, 11:06:39 AM
the actual issue with false equivalence is the perpetuation of the myth that the make up of both parties in the US is broadly similar in terms of moderates and hardliners.

The truth not surprisingly is somewhat different:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/how-the-press-can-deal-with-the-benghazi-committee/410251/

Maybe....but I was using the terms in direct reference to one specific topic....Clinton surrogates stating  that Colin's Powells email issues were the same as Hillarys.....which they are NOT
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2016, 03:11:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 17, 2016, 01:27:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 01:03:50 AM
IMHO the Clintons have gotten away with murder for years, aided and abetted in large part by a very sympathetic mainstream media.

The problem for them today is that most people don't solely rely on the MSM for their news.....they get it from lots of different sources

The Clintons were/are excellent liars, but in the era of instant fact check their bullshit doesn't fly any more

Perfect example is Bill and Hillary Clinton claiming on the campaign that Bernie also got paid for speeches (the old false equivalency) so why was everyone ganging up on poor Hillary. Bernie gave one speech for $500 which he donated to a real charity (not the Clinton Foundation). Within minutes the Clintons were being ridiculed over social media for making such an outrageous claim.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/sanders-shatters-clintons_b_9276584.html

What have they got away with though?

Bill Clinton was dogged by sex scandals from before the 1992 NH primary. Then all kinds of scandals and conspiracies were continually thrown up and investigated, culminating in him lying under oath about a bj from an intern and getting impeached. Just because Bill Clinton kept getting up and coming back doesn't mean that the media weren't doing their job. The Washington Post broke and hyped Whitewater. The NY Times hammered him over Lewinsky. Are those not the epitome of the so-called MSM? It wasn't just Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News going after Clinton, although they did drive the Vince Foster type conspiracy shit. Has there been a president MORE investigated by Congress than him?

Same with Hillary. If even a quarter of the effort was put into investigating the Iraq War as has been put into investigating and hyping Benghazi and these emails, the Bush administration would have been tied in knots fighting scandals. If you want to talk about a compliant media, look no further than the rush to the Iraq war. And how many congressional and agency investigations have there been into Benghazi and the emails?

Is the real "problem" not that they usually seem to beat these charges, whether due to them being trumped up or lacking in evidence, rather than them not being investigated and reported?

I don't have the time to research specifics as much of Bill Clintons issues occurred pre Internet so I would be going solely off memory at his point.

But looking at this election cycle....take the NY Times as an example of MSM pro Clinton bias:

They wrote a mildly flattering piece about Bernie a couple of months back, then went back in and edited it that same morning taking out the flattering piece.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/publiceditor/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/?referer=


A couple of days ago they attempted a hit piece on Trump which has backfired spectacularly as one of the people interviewed came out within hours and stated that her statements were  completely misrepresented.

Pre social media, egregious bias like this would pass unnoticed but not anymore.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 17, 2016, 03:24:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 03:11:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 17, 2016, 01:27:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 01:03:50 AM
IMHO the Clintons have gotten away with murder for years, aided and abetted in large part by a very sympathetic mainstream media.

The problem for them today is that most people don't solely rely on the MSM for their news.....they get it from lots of different sources

The Clintons were/are excellent liars, but in the era of instant fact check their bullshit doesn't fly any more

Perfect example is Bill and Hillary Clinton claiming on the campaign that Bernie also got paid for speeches (the old false equivalency) so why was everyone ganging up on poor Hillary. Bernie gave one speech for $500 which he donated to a real charity (not the Clinton Foundation). Within minutes the Clintons were being ridiculed over social media for making such an outrageous claim.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/sanders-shatters-clintons_b_9276584.html

What have they got away with though?

Bill Clinton was dogged by sex scandals from before the 1992 NH primary. Then all kinds of scandals and conspiracies were continually thrown up and investigated, culminating in him lying under oath about a bj from an intern and getting impeached. Just because Bill Clinton kept getting up and coming back doesn't mean that the media weren't doing their job. The Washington Post broke and hyped Whitewater. The NY Times hammered him over Lewinsky. Are those not the epitome of the so-called MSM? It wasn't just Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News going after Clinton, although they did drive the Vince Foster type conspiracy shit. Has there been a president MORE investigated by Congress than him?

Same with Hillary. If even a quarter of the effort was put into investigating the Iraq War as has been put into investigating and hyping Benghazi and these emails, the Bush administration would have been tied in knots fighting scandals. If you want to talk about a compliant media, look no further than the rush to the Iraq war. And how many congressional and agency investigations have there been into Benghazi and the emails?

Is the real "problem" not that they usually seem to beat these charges, whether due to them being trumped up or lacking in evidence, rather than them not being investigated and reported?

I don't have the time to research specifics as much of Bill Clintons issues occurred pre Internet so I would be going solely off memory at his point.

But looking at this election cycle....take the NY Times as an example of MSM pro Clinton bias:

They wrote a mildly flattering piece about Bernie a couple of months back, then went back in and edited it that same morning taking out the flattering piece.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/publiceditor/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/?referer=


A couple of days ago they attempted a hit piece on Trump which has backfired spectacularly as one of the people interviewed came out within hours and stated that her statements were  completely misrepresented.

Pre social media, egregious bias like this would pass unnoticed but not anymore.

There's no way Trump is clean though surely something will come out to nail him I can't think that he's whiter than white when it comes down to the nitty gritty. There has to be a safe somewhere with all the dirt in the world on Trump!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 17, 2016, 03:51:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 03:11:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 17, 2016, 01:27:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 01:03:50 AM
IMHO the Clintons have gotten away with murder for years, aided and abetted in large part by a very sympathetic mainstream media.

The problem for them today is that most people don't solely rely on the MSM for their news.....they get it from lots of different sources

The Clintons were/are excellent liars, but in the era of instant fact check their bullshit doesn't fly any more

Perfect example is Bill and Hillary Clinton claiming on the campaign that Bernie also got paid for speeches (the old false equivalency) so why was everyone ganging up on poor Hillary. Bernie gave one speech for $500 which he donated to a real charity (not the Clinton Foundation). Within minutes the Clintons were being ridiculed over social media for making such an outrageous claim.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/sanders-shatters-clintons_b_9276584.html

What have they got away with though?

Bill Clinton was dogged by sex scandals from before the 1992 NH primary. Then all kinds of scandals and conspiracies were continually thrown up and investigated, culminating in him lying under oath about a bj from an intern and getting impeached. Just because Bill Clinton kept getting up and coming back doesn't mean that the media weren't doing their job. The Washington Post broke and hyped Whitewater. The NY Times hammered him over Lewinsky. Are those not the epitome of the so-called MSM? It wasn't just Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News going after Clinton, although they did drive the Vince Foster type conspiracy shit. Has there been a president MORE investigated by Congress than him?

Same with Hillary. If even a quarter of the effort was put into investigating the Iraq War as has been put into investigating and hyping Benghazi and these emails, the Bush administration would have been tied in knots fighting scandals. If you want to talk about a compliant media, look no further than the rush to the Iraq war. And how many congressional and agency investigations have there been into Benghazi and the emails?

Is the real "problem" not that they usually seem to beat these charges, whether due to them being trumped up or lacking in evidence, rather than them not being investigated and reported?

I don't have the time to research specifics as much of Bill Clintons issues occurred pre Internet so I would be going solely off memory at his point.

But looking at this election cycle....take the NY Times as an example of MSM pro Clinton bias:

They wrote a mildly flattering piece about Bernie a couple of months back, then went back in and edited it that same morning taking out the flattering piece.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/publiceditor/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/?referer=


A couple of days ago they attempted a hit piece on Trump which has backfired spectacularly as one of the people interviewed came out within hours and stated that her statements were  completely misrepresented.

Pre social media, egregious bias like this would pass unnoticed but not anymore.

And some prominent liberal outlets are all in for Bernie and hammering Hillary at times (check Salon, for example).

That's not my point though - my point is that the Clintons' various scandals and problems, real or conspiracy, have been covered to death. Hillary's unfavourable polls reflect the cloak and dagger perception that is out there amongst a substantial portion of the population.

And on this cycle, everyone knows about Benghazi and the emails. Whatever the FBI decides in terms of recommending charges or no charges is going to receive blanket coverage. If the latest congressional Benghazi investigation should uncover something Hilary actually did wrong in terms of her directions that night, THAT will receive blanket coverage.

The NY Times dedicated an editorial to telling her to release the transcripts of the Goldman Sachs speeches a couple of months back. That was hardly welcomed in the Clinton campaign HQ.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 17, 2016, 04:00:45 PM
Now Trump's tweeting about "The Energizer"... what the f**k has that got to do with running the country.

If Trump gets voted in as President then America will go down as the most stupid nation on the face of the planet!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2016, 04:11:27 PM

Lol-she's out there blasting Wall Street while at he same time earning millions of dollars in speakers fees behind closed doors saying God knows what. Wow...how very coreageous of the NY Times to write an editorial asking her to release them

Taken from the comment section of the editorial in question. "Why didn't The Times run an editorial like this before they endorsed her in the primaries"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2016, 04:47:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 17, 2016, 01:27:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 01:03:50 AM
IMHO the Clintons have gotten away with murder for years, aided and abetted in large part by a very sympathetic mainstream media.

The problem for them today is that most people don't solely rely on the MSM for their news.....they get it from lots of different sources

The Clintons were/are excellent liars, but in the era of instant fact check their bullshit doesn't fly any more

Perfect example is Bill and Hillary Clinton claiming on the campaign that Bernie also got paid for speeches (the old false equivalency) so why was everyone ganging up on poor Hillary. Bernie gave one speech for $500 which he donated to a real charity (not the Clinton Foundation). Within minutes the Clintons were being ridiculed over social media for making such an outrageous claim.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/sanders-shatters-clintons_b_9276584.html

What have they got away with though?

Bill Clinton was dogged by sex scandals from before the 1992 NH primary. Then all kinds of scandals and conspiracies were continually thrown up and investigated, culminating in him lying under oath about a bj from an intern and getting impeached. Just because Bill Clinton kept getting up and coming back doesn't mean that the media weren't doing their job. The Washington Post broke and hyped Whitewater. The NY Times hammered him over Lewinsky. Are those not the epitome of the so-called MSM? It wasn't just Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News going after Clinton, although they did drive the Vince Foster type conspiracy shit. Has there been a president MORE investigated by Congress than him?

Same with Hillary. If even a quarter of the effort was put into investigating the Iraq War as has been put into investigating and hyping Benghazi and these emails, the Bush administration would have been tied in knots fighting scandals. If you want to talk about a compliant media, look no further than the rush to the Iraq war. And how many congressional and agency investigations have there been into Benghazi and the emails?

Is the real "problem" not that they usually seem to beat these charges, whether due to them being trumped up or lacking in evidence, rather than them not being investigated and reported?
the GOP has been nuts for at least 25 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 17, 2016, 05:03:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 04:11:27 PM

Lol-she's out there blasting Wall Street while at he same time earning millions of dollars in speakers fees behind closed doors saying God knows what. Wow...how very coreageous of the NY Times to write an editorial asking her to release them

Taken from the comment section of the editorial in question. "Why didn't The Times run an editorial like this before they endorsed her in the primaries"

Why doesn't Trump release his tax returns??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2016, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 17, 2016, 05:03:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 04:11:27 PM

Lol-she's out there blasting Wall Street while at he same time earning millions of dollars in speakers fees behind closed doors saying God knows what. Wow...how very coreageous of the NY Times to write an editorial asking her to release them

Taken from the comment section of the editorial in question. "Why didn't The Times run an editorial like this before they endorsed her in the primaries"

Why doesn't Trump release his tax returns??

I don't know, but he should
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gawa316 on May 17, 2016, 05:21:47 PM
So couldn't be arsed going back through all these pages to find an answer but is Sanders not the fecking obvious choice to be next president? I have very limited politics knowledge so I could be wrong btw, but just looking in as an outsider he seems the right choice. My facebook gets lit up everyday about all the reasons why Trump and Clinton shouldn't be president. Their supporters are not promoting what they can do, rather what the other can't do and bringing up countless things they've done in the past to discount them.

Again I could be wrong but anything I see about Sanders is positive and he has always the 'peoples' interests at heart. Anyone care to enlighten me? What are thoughts on Sanders? Is it the 'dumb yank' mentality? Republican v Democrat?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 17, 2016, 05:54:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 04:11:27 PM

Lol-she's out there blasting Wall Street while at he same time earning millions of dollars in speakers fees behind closed doors saying God knows what. Wow...how very coreageous of the NY Times to write an editorial asking her to release them

Taken from the comment section of the editorial in question. "Why didn't The Times run an editorial like this before they endorsed her in the primaries"

Well, you're complaining that she's getting a free ride. Why would they bother at all if they're totally in the tank for her? It's not like she heeded their advice anyway.

And what does the timing of the editorial have to do with anything? It was news that week because of Sanders, and they basically agreed that he had a very valid point. They can still think she's a better candidate than Bernie even if they don't agree with everything she stands for. You should pull up some of their GOP endorsements!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2016, 06:13:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 17, 2016, 05:54:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 04:11:27 PM

Lol-she's out there blasting Wall Street while at he same time earning millions of dollars in speakers fees behind closed doors saying God knows what. Wow...how very coreageous of the NY Times to write an editorial asking her to release them

Taken from the comment section of the editorial in question. "Why didn't The Times run an editorial like this before they endorsed her in the primaries"

Well, you're complaining that she's getting a free ride. Why would they bother at all if they're totally in the tank for her? It's not like she heeded their advice anyway.

And what does the timing of the editorial have to do with anything? It was news that week because of Sanders, and they basically agreed that he had a very valid point. They can still think she's a better candidate than Bernie even if they don't agree with everything she stands for. You should pull up some of their GOP endorsements!

I contend that the NY Times is biased in favor of Hillary and I'm not the only one

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/media/267692-the-new-york-times-bias-and-hillary-clinton

You of course are entitled to your opinion and that's why this is called a discussion board



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 17, 2016, 06:35:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 06:13:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 17, 2016, 05:54:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 17, 2016, 04:11:27 PM

Lol-she's out there blasting Wall Street while at he same time earning millions of dollars in speakers fees behind closed doors saying God knows what. Wow...how very coreageous of the NY Times to write an editorial asking her to release them

Taken from the comment section of the editorial in question. "Why didn't The Times run an editorial like this before they endorsed her in the primaries"

Well, you're complaining that she's getting a free ride. Why would they bother at all if they're totally in the tank for her? It's not like she heeded their advice anyway.

And what does the timing of the editorial have to do with anything? It was news that week because of Sanders, and they basically agreed that he had a very valid point. They can still think she's a better candidate than Bernie even if they don't agree with everything she stands for. You should pull up some of their GOP endorsements!

I contend that the NY Times is biased in favor of Hillary and I'm not the only one

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/media/267692-the-new-york-times-bias-and-hillary-clinton

You of course are entitled to your opinion and that's why this is called a discussion board

Hold on there. I never said they weren't biased towards her. They may well be and they did endorse her, after all. Every newspaper editorial page in the country favours one party and eventually one candidate. What kind of treatment does Hillary get in the Wall Street Journal or, up your neck of the woods, the Boston Herald?

My issue here has been your claim that the Clintons get away with everything and are let slide by the so-called mainstream media (whatever that is in this day and age), presumably unlike Republicans.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2016, 11:25:51 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/05/26/the-magic-of-donald-trump/

"A lot of times when I speak, people say I don't provide specific policies that some pollster has determined are what people want to hear. I know that's not the way the professional politicians do it—they seem to poll and focus-group every word. But there's nobody like me.


Nobody.


I ask people to look at what I've done throughout my whole career. Look at how successful I've been doing things my way. So they have a choice: They can pretend some impossible solution is actually going to happen, or they can listen to the person who has proved that he can solve problems.


I started in a relatively small real estate company based in Brooklyn and made more than $10 billion. I now live on what is considered the best block of real estate anywhere in the world—Fifth Avenue between 56th Street and 57th Street, right next to Tiffany's in the heart of New York City."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 18, 2016, 09:26:22 AM
I see Trump was at his conciliatory best with Megyn Kelly last night!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2016, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

This actually is a real story
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2016, 11:05:49 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 18, 2016, 09:26:22 AM
I see Trump was at his conciliatory best with Megyn Kelly last night!!!

Until she has the gall to question him on something again...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2016, 11:13:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2016, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

This actually is a real story

How does it play out though?

Does Trump and Roger Stone have some of these women ready to go with claims that they serviced or were forced to service Clinton?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2016, 11:25:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2016, 11:13:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2016, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

This actually is a real story

How does it play out though?

Does Trump and Roger Stone have some of these women ready to go with claims that they serviced or were forced to service Clinton?

I have no idea, but Bill could very well become her biggest liability and Trump has no problem going places other people wouldn't even think of going
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 18, 2016, 12:00:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2016, 11:25:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2016, 11:13:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2016, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

This actually is a real story

How does it play out though?

Does Trump and Roger Stone have some of these women ready to go with claims that they serviced or were forced to service Clinton?

I have no idea, but Bill could very well become her biggest liability and Trump has no problem going places other people wouldn't even think of going
His declaration of candidacy set the tone. He\s a narcissist. It is all about him. No detail. Trust him. He sells resentment to the resentful.
and it's going to be great. Believe me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcfXQVersv8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2016, 06:46:09 AM
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2016, 03:34:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 07, 2016, 10:30:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 07, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Suffice to say, in that case, that if he is a Democrat, and not an megalomaniacal conspiracy theorist, then the conservative movement in the US is made up of some of the dumbest, most ignorant, most ill-educated, naive morons ever to walk the earth.

That is precisely what's happening. These are the same clueless clowns who voted for the catastrophic presidency of George W Bush. Twice. And all because they thought they'd like to have a beer with the stupid p***k.

You are the dumbest **** I ever come across, you actually believe that shite!

Was it something I said?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 19, 2016, 07:39:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 19, 2016, 08:01:37 AM
Very interesting piece from Robert Kagan
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 19, 2016, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

Why, not one word is a lie, it is true so why would I need counselling based on what I wrote?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blewuporstuffed on May 20, 2016, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: gawa316 on May 17, 2016, 05:21:47 PM
So couldn't be arsed going back through all these pages to find an answer but is Sanders not the fecking obvious choice to be next president? I have very limited politics knowledge so I could be wrong btw, but just looking in as an outsider he seems the right choice. My facebook gets lit up everyday about all the reasons why Trump and Clinton shouldn't be president. Their supporters are not promoting what they can do, rather what the other can't do and bringing up countless things they've done in the past to discount them.

Again I could be wrong but anything I see about Sanders is positive and he has always the 'peoples' interests at heart. Anyone care to enlighten me? What are thoughts on Sanders? Is it the 'dumb yank' mentality? Republican v Democrat?

Agree with you about Sanders, he certainly looks like the best candidate by a long way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on May 20, 2016, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: stew on May 19, 2016, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

Why, not one word is a lie, it is true so why would I need counselling based on what I wrote?

You seem incapable of making any contribution without including hateful, bileful, personalised comments, about people, presumably, you haven't met personally. Every post you make is nasty and hateful, you obviously have serious anger issues which is why I said i think you need counselling. The fact that you will be unable to see that your posts go well beyond debate or discussion makes it even more necessary that you seek help.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 20, 2016, 11:09:10 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 20, 2016, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: gawa316 on May 17, 2016, 05:21:47 PM
So couldn't be arsed going back through all these pages to find an answer but is Sanders not the fecking obvious choice to be next president? I have very limited politics knowledge so I could be wrong btw, but just looking in as an outsider he seems the right choice. My facebook gets lit up everyday about all the reasons why Trump and Clinton shouldn't be president. Their supporters are not promoting what they can do, rather what the other can't do and bringing up countless things they've done in the past to discount them.

Again I could be wrong but anything I see about Sanders is positive and he has always the 'peoples' interests at heart. Anyone care to enlighten me? What are thoughts on Sanders? Is it the 'dumb yank' mentality? Republican v Democrat?

Agree with you about Sanders, he certainly looks like the best candidate by a long way.
He is but he's too radical for the rich so he has no superdelegates.
Clinton is the establishment candidate at a time when the people are sick of the establishment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 20, 2016, 01:01:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 20, 2016, 11:09:10 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 20, 2016, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: gawa316 on May 17, 2016, 05:21:47 PM
So couldn't be arsed going back through all these pages to find an answer but is Sanders not the fecking obvious choice to be next president? I have very limited politics knowledge so I could be wrong btw, but just looking in as an outsider he seems the right choice. My facebook gets lit up everyday about all the reasons why Trump and Clinton shouldn't be president. Their supporters are not promoting what they can do, rather what the other can't do and bringing up countless things they've done in the past to discount them.

Again I could be wrong but anything I see about Sanders is positive and he has always the 'peoples' interests at heart. Anyone care to enlighten me? What are thoughts on Sanders? Is it the 'dumb yank' mentality? Republican v Democrat?

Agree with you about Sanders, he certainly looks like the best candidate by a long way.
He is but he's too radical for the rich so he has no superdelegates.
Clinton is the establishment candidate at a time when the people are sick of the establishment

Bernie is also a socialist which many here (rightly or wrongly) equate with communism.  Bernies case isnt helped by the fact he had his honeymoon in the old USSR at the height of the Cold War.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 20, 2016, 02:11:42 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2016, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: stew on May 19, 2016, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

Why, not one word is a lie, it is true so why would I need counselling based on what I wrote?

You seem incapable of making any contribution without including hateful, bileful, personalised comments, about people, presumably, you haven't met personally. Every post you make is nasty and hateful, you obviously have serious anger issues which is why I said i think you need counselling. The fact that you will be unable to see that your posts go well beyond debate or discussion makes it even more necessary that you seek help.

Your ignorance is no reason to dispense advice to me, every word I said on the post prior to you playing doctor is in fact true, you did not know that and were ignorant of the fact, tell you what sport, have a look see at eamon1's posts in relation to conservative posters, criticize him and get back to me.

You are an arrogant sort, next time, before you dispense unwanted advice, take the time to ask what someone is talking about before playing the man.

I despise Clinton and all she stands for, she is a horrible human being and I will continue to hammer the f**ker until this election is over, k sweetie. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on May 20, 2016, 02:46:53 PM
Quote from: stew on May 20, 2016, 02:11:42 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2016, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: stew on May 19, 2016, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

Why, not one word is a lie, it is true so why would I need counselling based on what I wrote?

You seem incapable of making any contribution without including hateful, bileful, personalised comments, about people, presumably, you haven't met personally. Every post you make is nasty and hateful, you obviously have serious anger issues which is why I said i think you need counselling. The fact that you will be unable to see that your posts go well beyond debate or discussion makes it even more necessary that you seek help.

Your ignorance is no reason to dispense advice to me, every word I said on the post prior to you playing doctor is in fact true, you did not know that and were ignorant of the fact, tell you what sport, have a look see at eamon1's posts in relation to conservative posters, criticize him and get back to me.

You are an arrogant sort, next time, before you dispense unwanted advice, take the time to ask what someone is talking about before playing the man.

I despise Clinton and all she stands for, she is a horrible human being and I will continue to hammer the f**ker until this election is over, k sweetie. )

As I said you would do, you have completely missed the point. Using epithets like Strapon, Rodent, the Kenyan and other vile names, which you do in every post you make on this thread, is hardly conducive to proposing a cogent argument. You couldn't even reply to me without including a snide name.

If you are such an avowed expert on the American political scene you shouldn't need to revert to schoolyard name calling.

Your posts are full of hate speech, catch yourself on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 20, 2016, 03:13:52 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2016, 02:46:53 PM
Quote from: stew on May 20, 2016, 02:11:42 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2016, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: stew on May 19, 2016, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

Why, not one word is a lie, it is true so why would I need counselling based on what I wrote?

You seem incapable of making any contribution without including hateful, bileful, personalised comments, about people, presumably, you haven't met personally. Every post you make is nasty and hateful, you obviously have serious anger issues which is why I said i think you need counselling. The fact that you will be unable to see that your posts go well beyond debate or discussion makes it even more necessary that you seek help.

Your ignorance is no reason to dispense advice to me, every word I said on the post prior to you playing doctor is in fact true, you did not know that and were ignorant of the fact, tell you what sport, have a look see at eamon1's posts in relation to conservative posters, criticize him and get back to me.

You are an arrogant sort, next time, before you dispense unwanted advice, take the time to ask what someone is talking about before playing the man.

I despise Clinton and all she stands for, she is a horrible human being and I will continue to hammer the f**ker until this election is over, k sweetie. )

As I said you would do, you have completely missed the point. Using epithets like Strapon, Rodent, the Kenyan and other vile names, which you do in every post you make on this thread, is hardly conducive to proposing a cogent argument. You couldn't even reply to me without including a snide name.

If you are such an avowed expert on the American political scene you shouldn't need to revert to schoolyard name calling.

Your posts are full of hate speech, catch yourself on.


Did you or did you not know to what i was referring before you gave me your sage wisdom k's?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 20, 2016, 03:22:09 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2016, 02:46:53 PM
Quote from: stew on May 20, 2016, 02:11:42 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2016, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: stew on May 19, 2016, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 18, 2016, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.

You need counselling.

Why, not one word is a lie, it is true so why would I need counselling based on what I wrote?

You seem incapable of making any contribution without including hateful, bileful, personalised comments, about people, presumably, you haven't met personally. Every post you make is nasty and hateful, you obviously have serious anger issues which is why I said i think you need counselling. The fact that you will be unable to see that your posts go well beyond debate or discussion makes it even more necessary that you seek help.

Your ignorance is no reason to dispense advice to me, every word I said on the post prior to you playing doctor is in fact true, you did not know that and were ignorant of the fact, tell you what sport, have a look see at eamon1's posts in relation to conservative posters, criticize him and get back to me.

You are an arrogant sort, next time, before you dispense unwanted advice, take the time to ask what someone is talking about before playing the man.

I despise Clinton and all she stands for, she is a horrible human being and I will continue to hammer the f**ker until this election is over, k sweetie. )

As I said you would do, you have completely missed the point. Using epithets like Strapon, Rodent, the Kenyan and other vile names, which you do in every post you make on this thread, is hardly conducive to proposing a cogent argument. You couldn't even reply to me without including a snide name.

If you are such an avowed expert on the American political scene you shouldn't need to revert to schoolyard name calling.

Your posts are full of hate speech, catch yourself on.


Again take a look at what the posters on the far left about have said about members of this board never mind what they have said about the republicans that ran for president, you hypocrite you,

I hate Clinton and what Obama has done to America is a disgrace, I will say what's on my mind and respond to liberal bile with contempt and the disdain it deserves.

Finally I lived in the states for 20 years, I went over to that country a fan of the democrats, I now loathe the far right and far left with equal disdain and I refuse to take advice from idiots that have been in new York for a week or Disney on a ten day park safari!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on May 20, 2016, 03:45:13 PM
How can you be so constantly angry? It is so obvious that you are furious at the mere mention of the Clinton or Obama name. People can support a Democrat without being labelled a libtard. Racist, sexist and other demeaning language is completely counter productive.  Surely it is possible to disagree with someone's policies without hating that individual with such vitriol that it screams through the screen every time you post. That can't be a healthy state of mind.

I cannot recollect anyone using the vile terms you consistently use to describe people you don't like, if you can show me that this is happening go ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 20, 2016, 04:52:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 20, 2016, 01:01:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 20, 2016, 11:09:10 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 20, 2016, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: gawa316 on May 17, 2016, 05:21:47 PM
So couldn't be arsed going back through all these pages to find an answer but is Sanders not the fecking obvious choice to be next president? I have very limited politics knowledge so I could be wrong btw, but just looking in as an outsider he seems the right choice. My facebook gets lit up everyday about all the reasons why Trump and Clinton shouldn't be president. Their supporters are not promoting what they can do, rather what the other can't do and bringing up countless things they've done in the past to discount them.

Again I could be wrong but anything I see about Sanders is positive and he has always the 'peoples' interests at heart. Anyone care to enlighten me? What are thoughts on Sanders? Is it the 'dumb yank' mentality? Republican v Democrat?

Agree with you about Sanders, he certainly looks like the best candidate by a long way.
He is but he's too radical for the rich so he has no superdelegates.
Clinton is the establishment candidate at a time when the people are sick of the establishment

Bernie is also a socialist which many here (rightly or wrongly) equate with communism.  Bernies case isnt helped by the fact he had his honeymoon in the old USSR at the height of the Cold War.

He did?? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
He was mayor of Burlington at the time and went to a sister city  there as part of a 10 person delegation and made it his "honeymoon"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 21, 2016, 01:35:21 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
He was mayor of Burlington at the time and went to a sister city  there as part of a 10 person delegation and made it his "honeymoon"
big deal. He never took money from the Kochs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 02:18:42 PM
You are correct, it was no big deal -I guess I had not written my reply in such a way to reflect that - As a side note, we later tried to sister Burlington with Newry, but I'd didn't work out6
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2016, 02:47:55 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 02:18:42 PM
You are correct, it was no big deal -I guess I had not written my reply in such a way to reflect that - As a side note, we later tried to sister Burlington with Newry, but I'd didn't work out6

It's s big deal for the people who think socialism is communism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
He was mayor of Burlington at the time and went to a sister city  there as part of a 10 person delegation and made it his "honeymoon"

How did his missus let him away with that one?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 21, 2016, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
He was mayor of Burlington at the time and went to a sister city  there as part of a 10 person delegation and made it his "honeymoon"

How did his missus let him away with that one?
Probably because It was free ,socialist = let someone else pay for me sums him up perfectly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 05:15:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 21, 2016, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
He was mayor of Burlington at the time and went to a sister city  there as part of a 10 person delegation and made it his "honeymoon"

How did his missus let him away with that one?
Probably because It was free ,socialist = let someone else pay for me sums him up perfectly
As opposed to the brown envelopes and "contributions" of his adversaries?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:20:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 05:15:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 21, 2016, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
He was mayor of Burlington at the time and went to a sister city  there as part of a 10 person delegation and made it his "honeymoon"

How did his missus let him away with that one?
Probably because It was free ,socialist = let someone else pay for me sums him up perfectly
As opposed to the brown envelopes and "contributions" of his adversaries?

A career politician who's never worked ONE DAY in the private sector, advocating socialism and redistribution makes many people VERY nervous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 05:29:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:20:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 05:15:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 21, 2016, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
He was mayor of Burlington at the time and went to a sister city  there as part of a 10 person delegation and made it his "honeymoon"

How did his missus let him away with that one?
Probably because It was free ,socialist = let someone else pay for me sums him up perfectly
As opposed to the brown envelopes and "contributions" of his adversaries?

A career politician who's never worked ONE DAY in the private sector, advocating socialism and redistribution makes many people VERY nervous.

Would someone who has spent their whole career in politics not likely more know about politics than someone who hasnt?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:34:30 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 05:29:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:20:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 05:15:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 21, 2016, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
He was mayor of Burlington at the time and went to a sister city  there as part of a 10 person delegation and made it his "honeymoon"

How did his missus let him away with that one?
Probably because It was free ,socialist = let someone else pay for me sums him up perfectly
As opposed to the brown envelopes and "contributions" of his adversaries?

A career politician who's never worked ONE DAY in the private sector, advocating socialism and redistribution makes many people VERY nervous.

Would someone who has spent their whole career in politics not likely more know about politics than someone who hasnt?

No. The State of IL would be a perfect example of career politicians running a state into the ground

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/03/politics-illinois

A career politician has one goal when he or she is elected ....get re-elected. They get re-elected not by making tough decisions, but by perpetuating unsustainable spending programs till finally a day of reckoning comes

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/opinion/frank-bruni-from-profits-to-politics.html?referer=
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:34:30 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 05:29:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:20:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 05:15:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 21, 2016, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: ballela-angel on May 21, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
He was mayor of Burlington at the time and went to a sister city  there as part of a 10 person delegation and made it his "honeymoon"

How did his missus let him away with that one?
Probably because It was free ,socialist = let someone else pay for me sums him up perfectly
As opposed to the brown envelopes and "contributions" of his adversaries?

A career politician who's never worked ONE DAY in the private sector, advocating socialism and redistribution makes many people VERY nervous.

Would someone who has spent their whole career in politics not likely more know about politics than someone who hasnt?

No. The State of IL would be a perfect example of career politicians running a state into the ground

Please expand
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:46:15 PM
See above
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:46:15 PM
See above

Oh thanks that was helpful. Firatly let me explain, you see as far as I know Illinois is still there and functioning, I get sent jobs of interest  from there from time to time so assume the economy is in stout shape? I dont know one politician from there. I know theres a bad gun and gang problem in Chicago, I dont know if thats what you are talking about but fail to see how politicians with private sector experience could exasperate that problem.

So I would love it if you could relate Illinois to Bernie Sanders being a poor performing politician.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2016, 06:42:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:46:15 PM
See above

Oh thanks that was helpful. Firatly let me explain, you see as far as I know Illinois is still there and functioning, I get sent jobs of interest  from there from time to time so assume the economy is in stout shape? I dont know one politician from there. I know theres a bad gun and gang problem in Chicago, I dont know if thats what you are talking about but fail to see how politicians with private sector experience could exasperate that problem.

So I would love it if you could relate Illinois to Bernie Sanders being a poor performing politician.



http://www.gregharris.org/wp/news/budget/illinois-democrats-consider-painful-cuts-for-friends-and-allies-as-budget-crisis-continues/

"Many states, particularly those led by Republicans, have taken drastic steps to fix their budgets, including cutting spending and requiring public employees to contribute more to their benefits. In some cases, the cutbacks triggered huge protests last year at state capitols by public employees and advocates for the poor.

But Illinois, where Democrats control the governor's office and both houses of the Legislature, flinched, taking only limited steps. Now, with the state staggering under a backlog of $9 billion in unpaid bills, leaders again face the awkward task of inflicting pain on their friends."




I can bold text on this device....but per the author, who knows better than you or I, and who is a Democratic State Rep......IL IS STAGGERING UNDER A BACKLOG OF $9B IN UNPAID BILLS.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 07:30:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 06:42:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:46:15 PM
See above

Oh thanks that was helpful. Firatly let me explain, you see as far as I know Illinois is still there and functioning, I get sent jobs of interest  from there from time to time so assume the economy is in stout shape? I dont know one politician from there. I know theres a bad gun and gang problem in Chicago, I dont know if thats what you are talking about but fail to see how politicians with private sector experience could exasperate that problem.

So I would love it if you could relate Illinois to Bernie Sanders being a poor performing politician.



http://www.gregharris.org/wp/news/budget/illinois-democrats-consider-painful-cuts-for-friends-and-allies-as-budget-crisis-continues/

"Many states, particularly those led by Republicans, have taken drastic steps to fix their budgets, including cutting spending and requiring public employees to contribute more to their benefits. In some cases, the cutbacks triggered huge protests last year at state capitols by public employees and advocates for the poor.

But Illinois, where Democrats control the governor's office and both houses of the Legislature, flinched, taking only limited steps. Now, with the state staggering under a backlog of $9 billion in unpaid bills, leaders again face the awkward task of inflicting pain on their friends."




I can bold text on this device....but per the author, who knows better than you or I, and who is a Democratic State Rep......IL IS STAGGERING UNDER A BACKLOG OF $9B IN UNPAID BILLS.

So are you trying to say that career politicians cannot balance public finances? Our discussion is about career politicians not Democrat and Republicans.

The article would seem to imply that representatives dont want to make choices that will damage their chances of getting reelected, which makes sense. But thats a problem of democracy and not really related to being a career politicians being able to balance the books.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on May 22, 2016, 01:09:13 PM

If you're going to criticise sanders could you provide specifics and evidence? Generalities that might apply to 'someone like him' and assumptions (probably got it for free) are just horseshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2016, 01:21:29 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 07:30:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 06:42:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2016, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2016, 05:46:15 PM
See above

Oh thanks that was helpful. Firatly let me explain, you see as far as I know Illinois is still there and functioning, I get sent jobs of interest  from there from time to time so assume the economy is in stout shape? I dont know one politician from there. I know theres a bad gun and gang problem in Chicago, I dont know if thats what you are talking about but fail to see how politicians with private sector experience could exasperate that problem.

So I would love it if you could relate Illinois to Bernie Sanders being a poor performing politician.



http://www.gregharris.org/wp/news/budget/illinois-democrats-consider-painful-cuts-for-friends-and-allies-as-budget-crisis-continues/

"Many states, particularly those led by Republicans, have taken drastic steps to fix their budgets, including cutting spending and requiring public employees to contribute more to their benefits. In some cases, the cutbacks triggered huge protests last year at state capitols by public employees and advocates for the poor.

But Illinois, where Democrats control the governor's office and both houses of the Legislature, flinched, taking only limited steps. Now, with the state staggering under a backlog of $9 billion in unpaid bills, leaders again face the awkward task of inflicting pain on their friends."




I can bold text on this device....but per the author, who knows better than you or I, and who is a Democratic State Rep......IL IS STAGGERING UNDER A BACKLOG OF $9B IN UNPAID BILLS.

So are you trying to say that career politicians cannot balance public finances? Our discussion is about career politicians not Democrat and Republicans.

The article would seem to imply that representatives dont want to make choices that will damage their chances of getting reelected, which makes sense. But thats a problem of democracy and not really related to being a career politicians being able to balance the books.

Indeed. Look at Kansas with their implementation of extreme trickle-down economics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2016, 02:12:50 PM
Having lived for the past 20 years in Blue states where the Democrats have almost spent their way to extinction I can assure you, while somewhat generalizing, career politicians typically avoid making tough decisions and many more Democrats are career politicians than are Republicans. As a result, Republicans don't have to worry as much about getting re-elected as Democrats as they have other careers and professions to go back to if they get voted out.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on May 22, 2016, 02:55:40 PM

That's a no then.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2016, 04:19:10 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on May 22, 2016, 02:55:40 PM

That's a no then.  ::)

Believe whatever you want my friend....

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429874/ge-leaves-connecticut-boston-blame-taxes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 22, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Whitey you where trying to say that  Bernie Sanders lack of private sector experience means he will perform poorly in office.

Then you turn it into a Dem v Rep thing based on your own presumptions that more democrats are career politicians than republicans.

Firslty Bernie Sanders isnt even a proper Democrat.

Secondly even though its irrelevant I am sure you give us a break down of politicians private sector experience v party allegiance.

Thirdly once you've proved that Im sure you could give us another break down of states economic performance v their politicians political allegiance.

It should be easy enough to prove on way or the other. But I suspect that its a typical political soundbite designed to appeal to popularity as most people work in the private sector and resent the security, stability, rights and benefits of public sector workers, and are frustrated when dealing with the methodical and bureaucratic nature of public services. So when you throw all of that in together people assume that public sector workers dont have a clue how the real world works, however that is based on nothing more than a presumption of the masses. But sure its a usefull way to disparage politicians so who cares if its right or wrong
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 22, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Whitey you where trying to say that  Bernie Sanders lack of private sector experience means he will perform poorly in office.

Then you turn it into a Dem v Rep thing based on your own presumptions that more democrats are career politicians than republicans.

Firslty Bernie Sanders isnt even a proper Democrat.

Secondly even though its irrelevant I am sure you give us a break down of politicians private sector experience v party allegiance.

Thirdly once you've proved that Im sure you could give us another break down of states economic performance v their politicians political allegiance.

It should be easy enough to prove on way or the other. But I suspect that its a typical political soundbite designed to appeal to popularity as most people work in the private sector and resent the security, stability, rights and benefits of public sector workers, and are frustrated when dealing with the methodical and bureaucratic nature of public services. So when you throw all of that in together people assume that public sector workers dont have a clue how the real world works, however that is based on nothing more than a presumption of the masses. But sure its a usefull way to disparage politicians so who cares if its right or wrong

Again...this is a discussion page, therefore one expresses opinions. My opinions (in my opinion) are very well backed up by facts, even though you may interpret the facts differently than I do.

States run by career politicians (mainly, but not exclusively Democrats) have serious issues with deficits, entitlements and spending that they ignored for decades in an effort to cling to power.

In the sames way that Republicans demonize immigrants and welfare recipients, Democrats demonize high earners and big business. 

Now we have a self styled socialist, career politician, whos playing the class envy card running for office, and you think he will be all of a sudden become fiscally conservative (or at least moderate).....I just cant see it, but agiain thats just my opinion, which is about as valid as yours
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2016, 06:59:10 PM
Whitey it's not class envy. The richest 1% have destroyed the US economy . Only way to fix things is to redistribute wealth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2016, 07:30:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2016, 06:59:10 PM
Whitey it's not class envy. The richest 1% have destroyed the US economy . Only way to fix things is to redistribute wealth

I'll agree to disagree

We've had a Dem in the White House for 16/24 prior years. If it was that simple, why didn't they fix it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 22, 2016, 07:34:08 PM
Ask congress why
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 22, 2016, 07:53:51 PM
It seems your opinion is based more on paritsan party politics than anything Whitey, this was not a discussion about the party divide but you  decided it turn it into one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 22, 2016, 08:22:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2016, 06:59:10 PM
Whitey it's not class envy. The richest 1% have destroyed the US economy . Only way to fix things is to redistribute wealth

How would you do this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2016, 08:34:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2016, 08:22:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2016, 06:59:10 PM
Whitey it's not class envy. The richest 1% have destroyed the US economy . Only way to fix things is to redistribute wealth

How would you do this?

Livable minimum wage would be a good start. We need to bury this idea that working in bottom-of-the-ladder jobs is a punishment and its victims deserve to live in poverty.

Progressive taxation with loopholes closed so that the rich pay their fair share like they used to.

Quickly defeat social wedge initiatives introduced by conservatives to distract from the real issues (in 2004 it was GW Bush's proposed constitutional amendment to ban marriage equality, today it's attacking Transgender people).

Break up the banks and end the too-big-to-fail era.

Bring back Glass-Steagall and separate investment from retail banking.

Break up the cozy relationship between the Fed and its regulators.

Scrap Citizen's United, by constitutional amendment if necessary.

Finish the job of bringing in single-payer healthcare so that people aren't beholden to their employers and don't go bankrupt when they get sick. Profit-making health insurance is nothing short of an extortion racket and should be banned in the absence of a public option.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2016, 08:36:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2016, 08:22:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2016, 06:59:10 PM
Whitey it's not class envy. The richest 1% have destroyed the US economy . Only way to fix things is to redistribute wealth

How would you do this?
Tax the f**kers. Same as in the 50s.
It's the same film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi-D24oCa10

Friedman says you can't do it because there will be no investment in growth
But there isn't any anyway
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2016, 08:45:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2016, 07:30:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2016, 06:59:10 PM
Whitey it's not class envy. The richest 1% have destroyed the US economy . Only way to fix things is to redistribute wealth

I'll agree to disagree

We've had a Dem in the White House for 16/24 prior years. If it was that simple, why didn't they fix it
Cos of campaign finance but mostly because you need serious power to shift the economy and the memes that drive it and the Dems did not have a constituency to do that. Plus they are as corrupt as the GOP anyway

•   "No matter how well-written or delivered, a speech cannot divert whole societies from a well-established course of action. Policies in motion tend to remain in motion; to change the trajectory of a deeply-entrenched set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal momentum. "
 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on May 22, 2016, 11:15:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2016, 04:19:10 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on May 22, 2016, 02:55:40 PM

That's a no then.  ::)

Believe whatever you want my friend....

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429874/ge-leaves-connecticut-boston-blame-taxes

I generally believe in presentable facts and the application of logic. In that spirit, can you explain to me what that link has specifically to do with Bernie Sanders?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 24, 2016, 06:50:24 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/23/donald-trump-poll-hillary-clinton-presidential-election-2016


First national polls showing the Donald ahead...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 24, 2016, 09:37:46 AM
Quote from: heganboy on May 24, 2016, 06:50:24 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/23/donald-trump-poll-hillary-clinton-presidential-election-2016


First national polls showing the Donald ahead...

Aye but Clinton is still embroiled in her race to win the dem nomination whilst Trump is able to focus on her, skewed poll but he is gaining traction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 24, 2016, 11:22:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 22, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Whitey you where trying to say that  Bernie Sanders lack of private sector experience means he will perform poorly in office.

Then you turn it into a Dem v Rep thing based on your own presumptions that more democrats are career politicians than republicans.

Firslty Bernie Sanders isnt even a proper Democrat.

Secondly even though its irrelevant I am sure you give us a break down of politicians private sector experience v party allegiance.

Thirdly once you've proved that Im sure you could give us another break down of states economic performance v their politicians political allegiance.

It should be easy enough to prove on way or the other. But I suspect that its a typical political soundbite designed to appeal to popularity as most people work in the private sector and resent the security, stability, rights and benefits of public sector workers, and are frustrated when dealing with the methodical and bureaucratic nature of public services. So when you throw all of that in together people assume that public sector workers dont have a clue how the real world works, however that is based on nothing more than a presumption of the masses. But sure its a usefull way to disparage politicians so who cares if its right or wrong

Again...this is a discussion page, therefore one expresses opinions. My opinions (in my opinion) are very well backed up by facts, even though you may interpret the facts differently than I do.

States run by career politicians (mainly, but not exclusively Democrats) have serious issues with deficits, entitlements and spending that they ignored for decades in an effort to cling to power.

In the sames way that Republicans demonize immigrants and welfare recipients, Democrats demonize high earners and big business. 

Now we have a self styled socialist, career politician, whos playing the class envy card running for office, and you think he will be all of a sudden become fiscally conservative (or at least moderate).....I just cant see it, but agiain thats just my opinion, which is about as valid as yours

Sorry Whitey, have to call BS on this.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/state-economy-ranking-q4-2015-2016-1?r=US&IR=T

This is a link for the states (including DC) economic performance in the final 2 quarters of 2015 - worst performers below

51 - West VA - Democratic Governor
50 - New Mexico - Republican Governor
49 - Oklahoma - Republican Governor
48 - Louisana - Democratic governor (but given the raging dumpster fire that was the state's finances after Jindal, you could almost mark this one red)
47 - Wyoming - Republican governor
46 - Mississippi - Republican governor
45 - Alabama - Republican governor
44 - Arkansas - Republican governor
43 - North Dakota - Republican governor
42 - Missouri - Democratic governor

Anyone else see a pattern emerging? It was the same proportion for the first two quarters of 2015 - 7 red states and 3 blue states in the bottom ten, just some different names - like Christie in NJ and Brownback in Kansas.

Being a career politician has nothing to do with poor economic performance (even though the Republicans are stuffed to the gills with careerists, much as they like to portray themselves as gallant Tea Party outsiders). Poor economic performance comes from poor choices informed by ideology of trickle down, austerity, cutting taxes and hollowing out the state. And if that ideololgy hasn't been discredited by the decline of American cities and infrastructure over the past thirty years, it should surely have been consigned to the dustbin of history after the European experience of the past ten years.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 24, 2016, 12:37:06 PM
Class envy is bullshit, whitely. Working class GOP voters got fed up with being shafted so the 1% could increase their wealth.  This is very, very American and happens once every 80 years or so. trump has started a process that will end up with workers taking over the system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 24, 2016, 03:23:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2016, 12:37:06 PM
Class envy is bullshit, whitely. Working class GOP voters got fed up with being shafted so the 1% could increase their wealth.  This is very, very American and happens once every 80 years or so. trump has started a process that will end up with workers taking over the system.

No chance of that happening.

The status quo will never be the same but there will be more accountability going forward.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 24, 2016, 03:26:03 PM
It amazes me the amount of Working Class Americans who vote Republican because they are Christian/hate the gays/advocate a pro life position when in reality the Republican screw them up the ass with their pants on!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 24, 2016, 03:41:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2016, 12:37:06 PM
Class envy is bullshit, whitely. Working class GOP voters got fed up with being shafted so the 1% could increase their wealth.  This is very, very American and happens once every 80 years or so. trump has started a process that will end up with workers taking over the system.

Seafoid if that were happening Sanders would be running away with the election. Trump started by talking about building a wall with Mexico, he is feeding on something very different to the common good of workers.

Screenexile, I am always amazed at anyone with a net worth of less than a few million dollars voting GOP. They are experts at making issues like, for example, what toilet you use a higher priority than say earning a living, or sending your son to die abroad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 24, 2016, 04:50:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 24, 2016, 03:26:03 PM
It amazes me the amount of Working Class Americans who vote Republican because they are Christian/hate the gays/advocate a pro life position when in reality the Republican screw them up the ass with their pants on!!

The GOP bait and switch. Use gays, God and guns ( and immigrants)  to rile up the masses, then, once they vote you in, restrict your actual governing and legislation to cutting taxes and regulations to benefit your business constituency. When election time or fundraising comes around again, repeat. There have been many books and much commentary on this e.g. the Thomas Frank book What's The Matter With Kansas?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 24, 2016, 04:54:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 24, 2016, 03:26:03 PM
It amazes me the amount of Working Class Americans who vote Republican because they are Christian/hate the gays/advocate a pro life position when in reality the Republican screw them up the ass with their pants on!!
not any more
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 26, 2016, 12:23:36 PM
Killory e nailed bitches, how do you libtards live with yourselves after your hero has been proven to be a lying sack of shite.

The democrat party is in turmoil, the been needs to come out and say the reason he is still in the fight for the nomination is because she should be stuck in a penitentary.

I despise Trump but I will take him all day long over that repugnant, vile obnoxious pile of dung that is Killory.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 26, 2016, 01:15:03 PM
Lol....I was waiting for that

Hillary rejected Bernies offer of a CA debate before the upcmng primary.  Looks like Trump is going to take up his offer.  Hillarys situation getting more and more precarious by the day
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 26, 2016, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: stew on May 26, 2016, 12:23:36 PM
Killory e nailed bitches, how do you libtards live with yourselves after your hero has been proven to be a lying sack of shite.

The democrat party is in turmoil, the been needs to come out and say the reason he is still in the fight for the nomination is because she should be stuck in a penitentary.

I despise Trump but I will take him all day long over that repugnant, vile obnoxious pile of dung that is Killory.

"Libtards"?

So you are going to vote for Trump after all?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on May 26, 2016, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 01:15:03 PM
Lol....I was waiting for that

Hillary rejected Bernies offer of a CA debate before the upcmng primary.  Looks like Trump is going to take up his offer.  Hillarys situation getting more and more precarious by the day

Go bernie.  Trump will have to show if he can be statesman like,.  What channel will it be on?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 26, 2016, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 26, 2016, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 01:15:03 PM
Lol....I was waiting for that

Hillary rejected Bernies offer of a CA debate before the upcmng primary.  Looks like Trump is going to take up his offer.  Hillarys situation getting more and more precarious by the day

Go bernie.  Trump will have to show if he can be statesman like,.  What channel will it be on?

No details yet....Bernie has s bad temper do let's see if he can hold his cool when the insults come flying
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 26, 2016, 02:46:09 PM
I see this is a State Department report. . . There is talk of a Justice Department investigation ongoing which would render this one meaningless. When are the findings released on that? There doesn't seem to be anything major in the current report other than she used a personal email server which many SS' had done in the past only the rules were changed and she was supposed to inform key staff but didn't.

Is there anything majorly criminal about it? Meh!

This will create a bit of mud for Bernie and Trump but I don't think much will stick it's the Justice Department's investigation which will determine how the rest of her race goes. Trump was able to say he could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and his numbers would still be great I don't think this report will make much of a dent in Hillary's numbers.

I wasn't that bothered about it before but seeing how big a frenzy the fanatics are about it I think a Hillary Presidency would be fun just to see the look on their faces!! I actually think she is best qualified as well and would make less of a mess than the other 2.

"I'm with Her!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 26, 2016, 02:56:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 26, 2016, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 01:15:03 PM
Lol....I was waiting for that

Hillary rejected Bernies offer of a CA debate before the upcmng primary.  Looks like Trump is going to take up his offer.  Hillarys situation getting more and more precarious by the day

Go bernie.  Trump will have to show if he can be statesman like,.  What channel will it be on?

No details yet....Bernie has s bad temper do let's see if he can hold his cool when the insults come flying

I would think Bernie would be well able for Trump.

What would Trump's insult be anyway? "Comrade Bernie"??

Who will that convince, either way?

Sooner or later Trump will have to back up the bullshit and trash talk with actual policy and proper reality-based analysis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 26, 2016, 03:24:17 PM
I don't know....maybe hell attack Bernie for stating that some women like to get raped
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 26, 2016, 03:49:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 03:24:17 PM
I don't know....maybe hell attack Bernie for stating that some women like to get raped

I'd forgotten about that one!

Yeah, that sounds just about right for Trump's level of class.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 26, 2016, 05:51:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 26, 2016, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: stew on May 26, 2016, 12:23:36 PM
Killory e nailed bitches, how do you libtards live with yourselves after your hero has been proven to be a lying sack of shite.

The democrat party is in turmoil, the been needs to come out and say the reason he is still in the fight for the nomination is because she should be stuck in a penitentary.

I despise Trump but I will take him all day long over that repugnant, vile obnoxious pile of dung that is Killory.

"Libtards"?

So you are going to vote for Trump after all?

Nope, I am irish and not a yank.

If I had a vote I would vote Bernie, if it was a choice between strap on and Trump I would not vote!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 05:57:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 24, 2016, 03:41:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2016, 12:37:06 PM
Class envy is bullshit, whitely. Working class GOP voters got fed up with being shafted so the 1% could increase their wealth.  This is very, very American and happens once every 80 years or so. trump has started a process that will end up with workers taking over the system.

Seafoid if that were happening Sanders would be running away with the election. Trump started by talking about building a wall with Mexico, he is feeding on something very different to the common good of workers.

Screenexile, I am always amazed at anyone with a net worth of less than a few million dollars voting GOP. They are experts at making issues like, for example, what toilet you use a higher priority than say earning a living, or sending your son to die abroad.
Muppet it will happen but it's early days. The middle class has yet to be destroyed by the 1%.
Real change only happens when people have given up on the system completely.  A vote for Clinton is a vote for the system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 26, 2016, 06:02:05 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/of4-F3v10tg/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 26, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Contrary to what a lot of you think it's not the 1% fvcking, the hardworking people, it's the politicians

http://usofarn.com/2013/02/09/what-quinn-didnt-tell-you/

State of IL has a $110 B underfunded pension liability that the taxpayers are on the hook for


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Contrary to what a lot of you think it's not the 1% fvcking, the hardworking people, it's the politicians

http://usofarn.com/2013/02/09/what-quinn-didnt-tell-you/

State of IL has a $110 B underfunded pension liability that the taxpayers are on the hook for
Whitey most of that deficit is due to the ultra low level of interest rates that the Fed imposed for the  benefit of the richest Americans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 26, 2016, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Contrary to what a lot of you think it's not the 1% fvcking, the hardworking people, it's the politicians

http://usofarn.com/2013/02/09/what-quinn-didnt-tell-you/

State of IL has a $110 B underfunded pension liability that the taxpayers are on the hook for
Whitey most of that deficit is due to the ultra low level of interest rates that the Fed imposed for the  benefit of the richest Americans.

Will you stop.

You could argue that TARP was to benefit the wealthy, at the expense of the taxpayer, but high interest rates would have been great fun for middle class mortgage holders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 26, 2016, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Contrary to what a lot of you think it's not the 1% fvcking, the hardworking people, it's the politicians

http://usofarn.com/2013/02/09/what-quinn-didnt-tell-you/

State of IL has a $110 B underfunded pension liability that the taxpayers are on the hook for
Whitey most of that deficit is due to the ultra low level of interest rates that the Fed imposed for the  benefit of the richest Americans.

Interesting perspective....do you have any links to articles that back up that statement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 26, 2016, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Contrary to what a lot of you think it's not the 1% fvcking, the hardworking people, it's the politicians

http://usofarn.com/2013/02/09/what-quinn-didnt-tell-you/

State of IL has a $110 B underfunded pension liability that the taxpayers are on the hook for
Whitey most of that deficit is due to the ultra low level of interest rates that the Fed imposed for the  benefit of the richest Americans.

Will you stop.

You could argue that TARP was to benefit the wealthy, at the expense of the taxpayer, but high interest rates would have been great fun for middle class mortgage holders.

Muppet something like 60% of debt is owned by the richest Americans.
the more debt they pump out the lower rates go.

It's called debt deflation and it's a rerun of a movie that was in cinemas in the 30s

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/fisdeb33.pdf

It's short enough to read on the tube out to ruislip
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 27, 2016, 12:48:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 26, 2016, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Contrary to what a lot of you think it's not the 1% fvcking, the hardworking people, it's the politicians

http://usofarn.com/2013/02/09/what-quinn-didnt-tell-you/

State of IL has a $110 B underfunded pension liability that the taxpayers are on the hook for
Whitey most of that deficit is due to the ultra low level of interest rates that the Fed imposed for the  benefit of the richest Americans.

Will you stop.

You could argue that TARP was to benefit the wealthy, at the expense of the taxpayer, but high interest rates would have been great fun for middle class mortgage holders.

Muppet something like 60% of debt is owned by the richest Americans.
the more debt they pump out the lower rates go.

It's called debt deflation and it's a rerun of a movie that was in cinemas in the 30s

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/fisdeb33.pdf

It's short enough to read on the tube out to ruislip

Every political system that ever existed had the 1%. In fact it was probably far worse in the past. We are far less class based that at any time in history and it is improving al the time. We are more traveled, more educated and have greater freedom from war and illness than ever. This of course doesn't apply to everyone on earth, but it never, ever did in the past.

I dare say most of us here had better childhoods than our parents and have better standards of living than they had. If we are not as happy as they were, then we need to look at ourselves instead of blaming easy targets.

We have a choice, whether to live our lives permanently angry at perceived enemies and wishing we had more, or we can enjoy what we have.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 27, 2016, 02:06:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 26, 2016, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Contrary to what a lot of you think it's not the 1% fvcking, the hardworking people, it's the politicians

http://usofarn.com/2013/02/09/what-quinn-didnt-tell-you/

State of IL has a $110 B underfunded pension liability that the taxpayers are on the hook for
Whitey most of that deficit is due to the ultra low level of interest rates that the Fed imposed for the  benefit of the richest Americans.

Will you stop.

You could argue that TARP was to benefit the wealthy, at the expense of the taxpayer, but high interest rates would have been great fun for middle class mortgage holders.

Muppet something like 60% of debt is owned by the richest Americans.
the more debt they pump out the lower rates go.

It's called debt deflation and it's a rerun of a movie that was in cinemas in the 30s

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/fisdeb33.pdf

It's short enough to read on the tube out to ruislip

Were talking about munis here, not Federal debt

http://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2014/12/11/investors-just-say-no-to-illinois-nj-and-pr-muni-bonds/#2a09ce17322

"So the system has run amok. Detroit General Obligation bondholders received only 74 cents on the dollar in bankruptcy reparations. Limited GO bondholders recovered even less from the city's bankruptcy—just 34 cents on the dollar."

If you bought IL Muni bonds in 2009, you have experienced 13 rating downgrades from the major rating agencies.  IL (And Chicago in particular) have unsustainable deficits and pension shortfalls that have zero to do with what the Fed is doing. The investors who bought this paper will possibly get fvcked, and many of them are very far from the top 1%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 27, 2016, 04:27:06 PM
Interesting whitey - you didn't reply to my stats about the top 10 worse performing states and you're also basing a lot of your argument on Illinois and Michigan - front lines for the erosion of union power and the denuding of heavy manufacturing and industry - both of which are staple Republican policies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 27, 2016, 05:16:30 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 27, 2016, 04:27:06 PM
Interesting whitey - you didn't reply to my stats about the top 10 worse performing states and you're also basing a lot of your argument on Illinois and Michigan - front lines for the erosion of union power and the denuding of heavy manufacturing and industry - both of which are staple Republican policies.

I didn't respond because that article you posted had nothing to do with what we were discussing

You do realize that while a state can have a vibrant economy, it can also be on the path to bankruptcy due to out of control spending and entitlements.

The 2 states with the worst credit ratings (and also 2 of the biggest economies) in the country are IL and CA.  https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-has-lowest-credit-rating-of-all-50-states/


CT is also in serious trouble-  http://ctmirror.org/2016/05/19/new-ct-budget-prompts-two-credit-downgrades-from-wall-street/

So instead of addressing the issue of entitlements, governors like Dan Maloy start hiking taxes which the. Leads to companies like GE saying FU and moving 100 miles up the road to Boston.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2016/01/17/ge-departure/#18404b5f6b99

Many of the states on that list you posted have always been poor states, with little industry, wealth or tax base.  And just because states have a Republican governor, I take it you do realize that if the state legislature is overwhelming Democratic, there's only so much he or she can do. A governor is not a monarch!!!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 27, 2016, 05:54:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 27, 2016, 12:48:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 26, 2016, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Contrary to what a lot of you think it's not the 1% fvcking, the hardworking people, it's the politicians

http://usofarn.com/2013/02/09/what-quinn-didnt-tell-you/

State of IL has a $110 B underfunded pension liability that the taxpayers are on the hook for
Whitey most of that deficit is due to the ultra low level of interest rates that the Fed imposed for the  benefit of the richest Americans.

Will you stop.

You could argue that TARP was to benefit the wealthy, at the expense of the taxpayer, but high interest rates would have been great fun for middle class mortgage holders.

Muppet something like 60% of debt is owned by the richest Americans.
the more debt they pump out the lower rates go.

It's called debt deflation and it's a rerun of a movie that was in cinemas in the 30s

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/fisdeb33.pdf

It's short enough to read on the tube out to ruislip

Every political system that ever existed had the 1%. In fact it was probably far worse in the past. We are far less class based that at any time in history and it is improving al the time. We are more traveled, more educated and have greater freedom from war and illness than ever. This of course doesn't apply to everyone on earth, but it never, ever did in the past.

I dare say most of us here had better childhoods than our parents and have better standards of living than they had. If we are not as happy as they were, then we need to look at ourselves instead of blaming easy targets.

We have a choice, whether to live our lives permanently angry at perceived enemies and wishing we had more, or we can enjoy what we have.
Did you like the Anglo bailout?
Did it stabilise the Eurozone?

Whether you like it or not yields are only going one way.
I was working on something with Irish bonds in February. the yield was 1.1%
now it has gone down to .84%
It'll go below zero after a sufficient dose of new debt is issued in the Euro system
your pension fund is going to be hit when the whole thing falls over.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2016, 11:33:12 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/28/protesters-clash-with-police-outside-donald-trump-rally-in-san-diego

Earlier in the day in Fresno, Trump denied that there was a major drought affecting the state, saying instead that when he becomes president he will "start opening up the water."

"There is no drought," he said.

Trump accused state officials of denying water to farmers so they can send it out to sea "to protect a certain kind of three-inch fish."

"We're going to solve your water problem. You have a water problem that is so insane. It is ridiculous where they're taking the water and shoving it out to sea," Trump said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 28, 2016, 12:58:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2016, 11:33:12 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/28/protesters-clash-with-police-outside-donald-trump-rally-in-san-diego

Earlier in the day in Fresno, Trump denied that there was a major drought affecting the state, saying instead that when he becomes president he will "start opening up the water."

"There is no drought," he said.

Trump accused state officials of denying water to farmers so they can send it out to sea "to protect a certain kind of three-inch fish."

"We're going to solve your water problem. You have a water problem that is so insane. It is ridiculous where they're taking the water and shoving it out to sea," Trump said.

Yes, the record four year drought is yet another conspiracy. ::)

And squeezing already on-the-brink species to extinction to bring a very short term benefit to agriculture while claiming the real issues are all a conspiracy is really sound, responsible leadership.

Stew froths on and on about Clinton's murders and corruption and lies, but at least she's a pragmatic, mainstream politician somewhat rooted in reality, not like this charlatan. Christ, when the Senate Majority Leader (a supporter) has to come out and say that the US governmental system and balance of powers will reduce the possibility that his OWN party's nominee will inflict serious, damaging policies on the country, what does THAT tell you?

The scariest part is not him, but the ill-educated and similarly conspiracy theory-minded American electorate who are swallowing all this nonsense and will very possibly sweep him into office. "I'm going to bring back all the coal jobs", "I'm going to turn on the water", "I'm going to start trade wars and bring back all those outsourced jobs (never mind my own record in that area)", "I'm going to make bondholders take a haircut to reduce the national debt", "I'm going to make Mexico pay for a 3000 mile wall", "America will get bored with winning" etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2016, 02:23:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 28, 2016, 12:58:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2016, 11:33:12 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/28/protesters-clash-with-police-outside-donald-trump-rally-in-san-diego

Earlier in the day in Fresno, Trump denied that there was a major drought affecting the state, saying instead that when he becomes president he will "start opening up the water."

"There is no drought," he said.

Trump accused state officials of denying water to farmers so they can send it out to sea "to protect a certain kind of three-inch fish."

"We're going to solve your water problem. You have a water problem that is so insane. It is ridiculous where they're taking the water and shoving it out to sea," Trump said.

Yes, the record four year drought is yet another conspiracy. ::)

And squeezing already on-the-brink species to extinction to bring a very short term benefit to agriculture while claiming the real issues are all a conspiracy is really sound, responsible leadership.

Stew froths on and on about Clinton's murders and corruption and lies, but at least she's a pragmatic, mainstream politician somewhat rooted in reality, not like this charlatan. Christ, when the Senate Majority Leader (a supporter) has to come out and say that the US governmental system and balance of powers will reduce the possibility that his OWN party's nominee will inflict serious, damaging policies on the country, what does THAT tell you?

The scariest part is not him, but the ill-educated and similarly conspiracy theory-minded American electorate who are swallowing all this nonsense and will very possibly sweep him into office. "I'm going to bring back all the coal jobs", "I'm going to turn on the water", "I'm going to start trade wars and bring back all those outsourced jobs (never mind my own record in that area)", "I'm going to make bondholders take a haircut to reduce the national debt", "I'm going to make Mexico pay for a 3000 mile wall", "America will get bored with winning" etc. etc. etc.
He is odious. The hatred of Muslims and Mexicans, the lies about helping people economically, the stance on climate change.... it says a lot about the state of things in the US today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 28, 2016, 05:04:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 27, 2016, 05:16:30 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 27, 2016, 04:27:06 PM
Interesting whitey - you didn't reply to my stats about the top 10 worse performing states and you're also basing a lot of your argument on Illinois and Michigan - front lines for the erosion of union power and the denuding of heavy manufacturing and industry - both of which are staple Republican policies.

I didn't respond because that article you posted had nothing to do with what we were discussing

You do realize that while a state can have a vibrant economy, it can also be on the path to bankruptcy due to out of control spending and entitlements.

The 2 states with the worst credit ratings (and also 2 of the biggest economies) in the country are IL and CA.  https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-has-lowest-credit-rating-of-all-50-states/


CT is also in serious trouble-  http://ctmirror.org/2016/05/19/new-ct-budget-prompts-two-credit-downgrades-from-wall-street/

So instead of addressing the issue of entitlements, governors like Dan Maloy start hiking taxes which the. Leads to companies like GE saying FU and moving 100 miles up the road to Boston.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2016/01/17/ge-departure/#18404b5f6b99

Many of the states on that list you posted have always been poor states, with little industry, wealth or tax base.  And just because states have a Republican governor, I take it you do realize that if the state legislature is overwhelming Democratic, there's only so much he or she can do. A governor is not a monarch!!!

Pull the other one whitey - the first link you posted there was from a right wing think tank rather than a statistics based site like mine. And I also realise that while a state legislature can be overwhelmingly Democratic with a Republican governor, it is also about as rare as unicorn. The Republican's gerrymandering and dominance of downticket races across the United States makes the opposite of your statement the norm.

And as for governor's not being monarchs, perhaps you would pass that information onto Messers Brownback, Christie, Jindal, Pence et al. You also didn't answer my point about Republican policy denuding unions, eroding manufacture and hollowing out state finances. Perhaps if they weren't too busy making the US into a deregulated wet dream for the Martin Shkrelis of this world, they wouldn't have to worry about rising entitlements or social security.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 28, 2016, 06:59:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 27, 2016, 05:54:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 27, 2016, 12:48:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 26, 2016, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2016, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 26, 2016, 06:51:45 PM
Contrary to what a lot of you think it's not the 1% fvcking, the hardworking people, it's the politicians

http://usofarn.com/2013/02/09/what-quinn-didnt-tell-you/

State of IL has a $110 B underfunded pension liability that the taxpayers are on the hook for
Whitey most of that deficit is due to the ultra low level of interest rates that the Fed imposed for the  benefit of the richest Americans.

Will you stop.

You could argue that TARP was to benefit the wealthy, at the expense of the taxpayer, but high interest rates would have been great fun for middle class mortgage holders.

Muppet something like 60% of debt is owned by the richest Americans.
the more debt they pump out the lower rates go.

It's called debt deflation and it's a rerun of a movie that was in cinemas in the 30s

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/fisdeb33.pdf

It's short enough to read on the tube out to ruislip

Every political system that ever existed had the 1%. In fact it was probably far worse in the past. We are far less class based that at any time in history and it is improving al the time. We are more traveled, more educated and have greater freedom from war and illness than ever. This of course doesn't apply to everyone on earth, but it never, ever did in the past.

I dare say most of us here had better childhoods than our parents and have better standards of living than they had. If we are not as happy as they were, then we need to look at ourselves instead of blaming easy targets.

We have a choice, whether to live our lives permanently angry at perceived enemies and wishing we had more, or we can enjoy what we have.
Did you like the Anglo bailout?
Did it stabilise the Eurozone?

Whether you like it or not yields are only going one way.
I was working on something with Irish bonds in February. the yield was 1.1%
now it has gone down to .84%
It'll go below zero after a sufficient dose of new debt is issued in the Euro system
your pension fund is going to be hit when the whole thing falls over.

I think I have posted enough here on that for anyone to know the answer.

Which makes me wonder why you are asking that question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2016, 08:00:23 PM
Good man muppet. What is going on now in the states is no different to the Anglo bailout. The system works for the ultra rich and nobody else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 28, 2016, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 28, 2016, 05:04:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 27, 2016, 05:16:30 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 27, 2016, 04:27:06 PM
Interesting whitey - you didn't reply to my stats about the top 10 worse performing states and you're also basing a lot of your argument on Illinois and Michigan - front lines for the erosion of union power and the denuding of heavy manufacturing and industry - both of which are staple Republican policies.

I didn't respond because that article you posted had nothing to do with what we were discussing

You do realize that while a state can have a vibrant economy, it can also be on the path to bankruptcy due to out of control spending and entitlements.

The 2 states with the worst credit ratings (and also 2 of the biggest economies) in the country are IL and CA.  https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-has-lowest-credit-rating-of-all-50-states/


CT is also in serious trouble-  http://ctmirror.org/2016/05/19/new-ct-budget-prompts-two-credit-downgrades-from-wall-street/

So instead of addressing the issue of entitlements, governors like Dan Maloy start hiking taxes which the. Leads to companies like GE saying FU and moving 100 miles up the road to Boston.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2016/01/17/ge-departure/#18404b5f6b99

Many of the states on that list you posted have always been poor states, with little industry, wealth or tax base.  And just because states have a Republican governor, I take it you do realize that if the state legislature is overwhelming Democratic, there's only so much he or she can do. A governor is not a monarch!!!

Pull the other one whitey - the first link you posted there was from a right wing think tank rather than a statistics based site like mine. And I also realise that while a state legislature can be overwhelmingly Democratic with a Republican governor, it is also about as rare as unicorn. The Republican's gerrymandering and dominance of downticket races across the United States makes the opposite of your statement the norm.

And as for governor's not being monarchs, perhaps you would pass that information onto Messers Brownback, Christie, Jindal, Pence et al. You also didn't answer my point about Republican policy denuding unions, eroding manufacture and hollowing out state finances. Perhaps if they weren't too busy making the US into a deregulated wet dream for the Martin Shkrelis of this world, they wouldn't have to worry about rising entitlements or social security.

CA and IL have the flat out worst credit ratings in the country. If you don't like that website I linked in its well documented on others

Regarding your comment about unicorns and Republican governors.....you really haven't a clue....

http://www.wupr.org/2014/11/11/why-blue-states-elect-red-governors/

(4 of the last 5 governors of Massachusetts have been Republicans....Weld, Celluci, Romney and Baker)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 30, 2016, 12:44:58 AM
Great argument - you select the one exception to the rule and say it proves the rule. Massachusetts has a long history of social conservatism, despite the Kennedy-supporting image outside the state. The Red Sox were the last MLB team to integrate, the busing crisis in the city in the 60s and 70s was incredibly divisive, and you don't have to watch Spotlight to know the heavy handed hold the diocese exerted on social policy. I lived there and I know the place, so I do know what I'm talking about. So if you want to discuss the other states that will prove your thesis?

Or perhaps we could discuss the well known fact (and it is a fact) that the vast majority of the current crop of Rep Governors have been forced further and further to the right by the Tea Party, that they are in hock to the Grover Norquist "no tax" crowd and even in states with a historically proven track record of underperformance (such as the the Southern states you mentioned) have achieved the incredible trick of making the state finances even worse.

So. your original statements that Dems are more likely to be career pols and that those career pols make worse decisions than those Rep reps with outside business experience are demonstrably false and are just more grist to the mill that leads white working class voters cut their own throats in election after election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2016, 01:44:32 AM
The GOP went through the same process as the NRA viz was taken over by right wing fundamentalists. In the case of the GOP it was people like the Kochs who enforced doctrine. Tax cuts for the rich and entitlement cuts for everyone else. The tea party was an astroturf effort driven by the paruy's billionaire backers.  It was a purge of moderates straight out of the protestant reformation or the history of the Taliban. Orrin Hatch was a Republican senator who worked closely with TedKennedy. To the GOP élite people like him were traitors. So they were purged. After the last prez élection Romney wrote a paper analysing the failure. Npbody was interested. Obamacare was the Target. The GOP has been leaderless for some time. It Is very hard to square the interests of the ultra rich with those of working people. Meanwhile median income Is 10% Lower in real terms than in 1975. The American dream Is a sick Joke.
It had to fall apart. Trump was the vector. Making America Great again Is a reflection of how bad things are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 30, 2016, 01:48:47 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 30, 2016, 12:44:58 AM
Great argument - you select the one exception to the rule and say it proves the rule. Massachusetts has a long history of social conservatism, despite the Kennedy-supporting image outside the state. The Red Sox were the last MLB team to integrate, the busing crisis in the city in the 60s and 70s was incredibly divisive, and you don't have to watch Spotlight to know the heavy handed hold the diocese exerted on social policy. I lived there and I know the place, so I do know what I'm talking about. So if you want to discuss the other states that will prove your thesis?

Or perhaps we could discuss the well known fact (and it is a fact) that the vast majority of the current crop of Rep Governors have been forced further and further to the right by the Tea Party, that they are in hock to the Grover Norquist "no tax" crowd and even in states with a historically proven track record of underperformance (such as the the Southern states you mentioned) have achieved the incredible trick of making the state finances even worse.

So. your original statements that Dems are more likely to be career pols and that those career pols make worse decisions than those Rep reps with outside business experience are demonstrably false and are just more grist to the mill that leads white working class voters cut their own throats in election after election.

I lived in CT from 2003 to 2008 and guess what party both governors who served during that time belonged to......Ill give you a hint it starts with an R

And I lived  in IL in 1994 and 1995 and guess what party Jim Edgar belonged to....I'll give you a hint....it also starts with an R

Do you see a pattern here, or is it just me?

And describing Charlie Baker (or anyone who won in 2014) as Tea Party.....well you can add the Tea Party to the list of things you should read up on before making blanket statements such as you did

http://www.governing.com/topics/elections/gov-massachusetts-governors-race.html

"And Baker, a businessman and former state official, isn't much of a right-winger. Baker is presenting himself as someone who could manage the state prudently, while sharing the liberal values of most Massachusetts voters on social issues. He supports, for instance, abortion rights and gun control and speaks with pride about his brother being a gay man and married resident of the commonwealth. "In any other state, Charlie Baker would be a Democrat," said Shannon Jenkins, a political scientist at the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 30, 2016, 09:55:04 AM
No I didn't describe Charlie Barker as Tea Party - nor did I describe everyone who won in 2014 as Tea Party - but it seems intellectual honesty has gone out the window here. I said the vast majority of the current crop of Republican governors (which does not tie them to an election cycle nor is it a blanket statement) are in hock to the principles of Grover Norquist - and they are. Check it out for yourself - Grover has a pledge and everything  ;D

Giving an example of 94 and 95 is completely dishonest as the political scene is far more divided now then it was then and you had the whole Reagan democrat thing going - that is not happening now. So no, I don't see a pattern, unlike the pattern I did see when I laid out the facts that of the 10 worst performing states in the country economically, 7 were led by Republican governors and 1 had just got rid of a Republican Governor. And the criteria measuring those rankings were an average of several different economic indices, not just credit rating in the bond market (you'll excuse me if I take the ratings of Moodys and Standards and Poor with a grain of salt, no matter what they indicate)

I would recommend you do some reading up before pinning your economic arguments to Reagan Democrats, rating agencies and right wing websites. I'd also recommend you do this reading before making demonstrably false and biased remarks like Democratic career politicians are worse economic managers than Republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 30, 2016, 10:17:07 AM
Bill Kristol reportedly unveiling a Conservative Independent candidate for the General.

Trump must be shitting himself he has zero chance if the Republican vote is diluted in any way!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 30, 2016, 04:01:02 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 30, 2016, 09:55:04 AM
No I didn't describe Charlie Barker as Tea Party - nor did I describe everyone who won in 2014 as Tea Party - but it seems intellectual honesty has gone out the window here. I said the vast majority of the current crop of Republican governors (which does not tie them to an election cycle nor is it a blanket statement) are in hock to the principles of Grover Norquist - and they are. Check it out for yourself - Grover has a pledge and everything  ;D

Giving an example of 94 and 95 is completely dishonest as the political scene is far more divided now then it was then and you had the whole Reagan democrat thing going - that is not happening now. So no, I don't see a pattern, unlike the pattern I did see when I laid out the facts that of the 10 worst performing states in the country economically, 7 were led by Republican governors and 1 had just got rid of a Republican Governor. And the criteria measuring those rankings were an average of several different economic indices, not just credit rating in the bond market (you'll excuse me if I take the ratings of Moodys and Standards and Poor with a grain of salt, no matter what they indicate)

I would recommend you do some reading up before pinning your economic arguments to Reagan Democrats, rating agencies and right wing websites. I'd also recommend you do this reading before making demonstrably false and biased remarks like Democratic career politicians are worse economic managers than Republicans.

Lol....of course you ignored the CT part.

(I threw IL in for the craic and of course you rose to the bait)

Believe whatever you want

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/07/06/state-fiscal-health-pension-funds-report/29763379/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2016, 05:06:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 30, 2016, 10:17:07 AM
Bill Kristol reportedly unveiling a Conservative Independent candidate for the General.

Trump must be shitting himself he has zero chance if the Republican vote is diluted in any way!!
Do you have a link for that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 30, 2016, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2016, 08:00:23 PM
Good man muppet. What is going on now in the states is no different to the Anglo bailout. The system works for the ultra rich and nobody else.

What happened Anglo was uneducated spoofers thought they could bluff the markets and went long on banks/property when everyone else was desperate to go short (The Big Short was at a very advanced stage by then).

That is a long way from the conspiracy you are suggesting is happening in the US. I said earlier that TARP would be a better argument for the case you are advancing but you seem to miss that all the time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2016, 06:26:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 30, 2016, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2016, 08:00:23 PM
Good man muppet. What is going on now in the states is no different to the Anglo bailout. The system works for the ultra rich and nobody else.

What happened Anglo was uneducated spoofers thought they could bluff the markets and went long on banks/property when everyone else was desperate to go short (The Big Short was at a very advanced stage by then).

That is a long way from the conspiracy you are suggesting is happening in the US. I said earlier that TARP would be a better argument for the case you are advancing but you seem to miss that all the time.
It was much bigger than Anglo.  Finance has been bailed out consistently going back to the 1980s. AIB failed twice and in both cases taxpayers ponied up. Greek bondholders were paid off in full. Hedge funds that bought Anglo debt for 30 cents on the Euro got paid the full euro. Moral Hazard is still rampant.

Now growth is impossible. Earnings and revenues are falling  in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on May 30, 2016, 07:30:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2016, 06:26:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 30, 2016, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2016, 08:00:23 PM
Good man muppet. What is going on now in the states is no different to the Anglo bailout. The system works for the ultra rich and nobody else.

What happened Anglo was uneducated spoofers thought they could bluff the markets and went long on banks/property when everyone else was desperate to go short (The Big Short was at a very advanced stage by then).

That is a long way from the conspiracy you are suggesting is happening in the US. I said earlier that TARP would be a better argument for the case you are advancing but you seem to miss that all the time.
It was much bigger than Anglo.  Finance has been bailed out consistently going back to the 1980s. AIB failed twice and in both cases taxpayers ponied up. Greek bondholders were paid off in full. Hedge funds that bought Anglo debt for 30 cents on the Euro got paid the full euro. Moral Hazard is still rampant.

Now growth is impossible. Earnings and revenues are falling  in the US.

B-b-b-but you were the one who brought up the Anglo bailout.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2016, 08:24:26 PM
Plámásing capital for so long is why the US and Eurozone can't have higher interest rates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 31, 2016, 06:23:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 30, 2016, 04:01:02 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 30, 2016, 09:55:04 AM
No I didn't describe Charlie Barker as Tea Party - nor did I describe everyone who won in 2014 as Tea Party - but it seems intellectual honesty has gone out the window here. I said the vast majority of the current crop of Republican governors (which does not tie them to an election cycle nor is it a blanket statement) are in hock to the principles of Grover Norquist - and they are. Check it out for yourself - Grover has a pledge and everything  ;D

Giving an example of 94 and 95 is completely dishonest as the political scene is far more divided now then it was then and you had the whole Reagan democrat thing going - that is not happening now. So no, I don't see a pattern, unlike the pattern I did see when I laid out the facts that of the 10 worst performing states in the country economically, 7 were led by Republican governors and 1 had just got rid of a Republican Governor. And the criteria measuring those rankings were an average of several different economic indices, not just credit rating in the bond market (you'll excuse me if I take the ratings of Moodys and Standards and Poor with a grain of salt, no matter what they indicate)

I would recommend you do some reading up before pinning your economic arguments to Reagan Democrats, rating agencies and right wing websites. I'd also recommend you do this reading before making demonstrably false and biased remarks like Democratic career politicians are worse economic managers than Republicans.

Lol....of course you ignored the CT part.

(I threw IL in for the craic and of course you rose to the bait)

Believe whatever you want

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/07/06/state-fiscal-health-pension-funds-report/29763379/

Ah. I see - anytime I call you on your inconsistencies, you were just having "the craic"...(backs slowly away)

I suppose I should know better than to expect logic from a Republican. I don't "believe" - I research it from credible sources and make my choices from there. It is the Republican penchant to conflate evidence with "belief" which gave us trickledown economics, WMDs and snowballs in Congress.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2016, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 31, 2016, 06:23:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 30, 2016, 04:01:02 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 30, 2016, 09:55:04 AM
No I didn't describe Charlie Barker as Tea Party - nor did I describe everyone who won in 2014 as Tea Party - but it seems intellectual honesty has gone out the window here. I said the vast majority of the current crop of Republican governors (which does not tie them to an election cycle nor is it a blanket statement) are in hock to the principles of Grover Norquist - and they are. Check it out for yourself - Grover has a pledge and everything  ;D

Giving an example of 94 and 95 is completely dishonest as the political scene is far more divided now then it was then and you had the whole Reagan democrat thing going - that is not happening now. So no, I don't see a pattern, unlike the pattern I did see when I laid out the facts that of the 10 worst performing states in the country economically, 7 were led by Republican governors and 1 had just got rid of a Republican Governor. And the criteria measuring those rankings were an average of several different economic indices, not just credit rating in the bond market (you'll excuse me if I take the ratings of Moodys and Standards and Poor with a grain of salt, no matter what they indicate)

I would recommend you do some reading up before pinning your economic arguments to Reagan Democrats, rating agencies and right wing websites. I'd also recommend you do this reading before making demonstrably false and biased remarks like Democratic career politicians are worse economic managers than Republicans.

Lol....of course you ignored the CT part.

(I threw IL in for the craic and of course you rose to the bait)

Believe whatever you want

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/07/06/state-fiscal-health-pension-funds-report/29763379/

Ah. I see - anytime I call you on your inconsistencies, you were just having "the craic"...(backs slowly away)

I suppose I should know better than to expect logic from a Republican. I don't "believe" - I research it from credible sources and make my choices from there. It is the Republican penchant to conflate evidence with "belief" which gave us trickledown economics, WMDs and snowballs in Congress.

How are the Unicorns keeping these days??????

Isn't that the word you used to describe Republican governors of Democratic States?

When presented with evidence to the contrary, you start renting and raving about trickle down economics and WMD's.

IL, MA and Maryland.......the bluest of a the bluest states elected REPUBLICAN governors last time out. MA has elected Republicans in 4 of the last 5 elections.  CT 2 out of 3 (and 3/4 if you count an Independent Republican, Lowell Weicker.

Chris Christie has been the governor NJ since 2010 and WI which has voted Democrat in the last SEVEN Presidential elections has had  Scott Walker as governor since 2011.


Pat the unicorn on the head for me, next time you go out to feed him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 12:05:07 PM
Yes, I was ranting and raving - and one of the unicorns told me that republicans have a far better economic record than democrats. What is your My Little Pony name Whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 12:07:35 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 24, 2016, 11:22:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 22, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Whitey you where trying to say that  Bernie Sanders lack of private sector experience means he will perform poorly in office.

Then you turn it into a Dem v Rep thing based on your own presumptions that more democrats are career politicians than republicans.

Firslty Bernie Sanders isnt even a proper Democrat.

Secondly even though its irrelevant I am sure you give us a break down of politicians private sector experience v party allegiance.

Thirdly once you've proved that Im sure you could give us another break down of states economic performance v their politicians political allegiance.

It should be easy enough to prove on way or the other. But I suspect that its a typical political soundbite designed to appeal to popularity as most people work in the private sector and resent the security, stability, rights and benefits of public sector workers, and are frustrated when dealing with the methodical and bureaucratic nature of public services. So when you throw all of that in together people assume that public sector workers dont have a clue how the real world works, however that is based on nothing more than a presumption of the masses. But sure its a usefull way to disparage politicians so who cares if its right or wrong

Again...this is a discussion page, therefore one expresses opinions. My opinions (in my opinion) are very well backed up by facts, even though you may interpret the facts differently than I do.

States run by career politicians (mainly, but not exclusively Democrats) have serious issues with deficits, entitlements and spending that they ignored for decades in an effort to cling to power.

In the sames way that Republicans demonize immigrants and welfare recipients, Democrats demonize high earners and big business. 

Now we have a self styled socialist, career politician, whos playing the class envy card running for office, and you think he will be all of a sudden become fiscally conservative (or at least moderate).....I just cant see it, but agiain thats just my opinion, which is about as valid as yours

Sorry Whitey, have to call BS on this.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/state-economy-ranking-q4-2015-2016-1?r=US&IR=T

This is a link for the states (including DC) economic performance in the final 2 quarters of 2015 - worst performers below

51 - West VA - Democratic Governor
50 - New Mexico - Republican Governor
49 - Oklahoma - Republican Governor
48 - Louisana - Democratic governor (but given the raging dumpster fire that was the state's finances after Jindal, you could almost mark this one red)
47 - Wyoming - Republican governor
46 - Mississippi - Republican governor
45 - Alabama - Republican governor
44 - Arkansas - Republican governor
43 - North Dakota - Republican governor
42 - Missouri - Democratic governor

Anyone else see a pattern emerging? It was the same proportion for the first two quarters of 2015 - 7 red states and 3 blue states in the bottom ten, just some different names - like Christie in NJ and Brownback in Kansas.

Being a career politician has nothing to do with poor economic performance (even though the Republicans are stuffed to the gills with careerists, much as they like to portray themselves as gallant Tea Party outsiders). Poor economic performance comes from poor choices informed by ideology of trickle down, austerity, cutting taxes and hollowing out the state. And if that ideololgy hasn't been discredited by the decline of American cities and infrastructure over the past thirty years, it should surely have been consigned to the dustbin of history after the European experience of the past ten years.

Just in case you forget what the point is. Difficult for a unicorn I know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 12:19:09 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/state-economy-ranking-sources-and-methods-2016-1?r=US&IR=T

And there's the methodology for the statistics measured across 7 different metrics. It's fairly straightforward - the prevailing Republican ideology is not about wealth creation, it is about wealth transfer. I doubt you're a one percenter Whitey, but it is endlessly fascinating as to why middle class American voters would go anywhere near the GOP on economic grounds
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2016, 12:29:46 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 12:07:35 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 24, 2016, 11:22:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 22, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Whitey you where trying to say that  Bernie Sanders lack of private sector experience means he will perform poorly in office.

Then you turn it into a Dem v Rep thing based on your own presumptions that more democrats are career politicians than republicans.

Firslty Bernie Sanders isnt even a proper Democrat.

Secondly even though its irrelevant I am sure you give us a break down of politicians private sector experience v party allegiance.

Thirdly once you've proved that Im sure you could give us another break down of states economic performance v their politicians political allegiance.

It should be easy enough to prove on way or the other. But I suspect that its a typical political soundbite designed to appeal to popularity as most people work in the private sector and resent the security, stability, rights and benefits of public sector workers, and are frustrated when dealing with the methodical and bureaucratic nature of public services. So when you throw all of that in together people assume that public sector workers dont have a clue how the real world works, however that is based on nothing more than a presumption of the masses. But sure its a usefull way to disparage politicians so who cares if its right or wrong

Again...this is a discussion page, therefore one expresses opinions. My opinions (in my opinion) are very well backed up by facts, even though you may interpret the facts differently than I do.

States run by career politicians (mainly, but not exclusively Democrats) have serious issues with deficits, entitlements and spending that they ignored for decades in an effort to cling to power.

In the sames way that Republicans demonize immigrants and welfare recipients, Democrats demonize high earners and big business. 

Now we have a self styled socialist, career politician, whos playing the class envy card running for office, and you think he will be all of a sudden become fiscally conservative (or at least moderate).....I just cant see it, but agiain thats just my opinion, which is about as valid as yours

Sorry Whitey, have to call BS on this.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/state-economy-ranking-q4-2015-2016-1?r=US&IR=T

This is a link for the states (including DC) economic performance in the final 2 quarters of 2015 - worst performers below

51 - West VA - Democratic Governor
50 - New Mexico - Republican Governor
49 - Oklahoma - Republican Governor
48 - Louisana - Democratic governor (but given the raging dumpster fire that was the state's finances after Jindal, you could almost mark this one red)
47 - Wyoming - Republican governor
46 - Mississippi - Republican governor
45 - Alabama - Republican governor
44 - Arkansas - Republican governor
43 - North Dakota - Republican governor
42 - Missouri - Democratic governor

Anyone else see a pattern emerging? It was the same proportion for the first two quarters of 2015 - 7 red states and 3 blue states in the bottom ten, just some different names - like Christie in NJ and Brownback in Kansas.

Being a career politician has nothing to do with poor economic performance (even though the Republicans are stuffed to the gills with careerists, much as they like to portray themselves as gallant Tea Party outsiders). Poor economic performance comes from poor choices informed by ideology of trickle down, austerity, cutting taxes and hollowing out the state. And if that ideololgy hasn't been discredited by the decline of American cities and infrastructure over the past thirty years, it should surely have been consigned to the dustbin of history after the European experience of the past ten years.

Just in case you forget what the point is. Difficult for a unicorn I know.

Lol....the politicians DONT run the ECONOMY.....they run the STATE....


The politicians are responsible for deficits, credit ratings and pension underfunding and Blue states such as IL, CA, NJ are in serious trouble


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2016, 12:42:57 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 12:19:09 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/state-economy-ranking-sources-and-methods-2016-1?r=US&IR=T

And there's the methodology for the statistics measured across 7 different metrics. It's fairly straightforward - the prevailing Republican ideology is not about wealth creation, it is about wealth transfer. I doubt you're a one percenter Whitey, but it is endlessly fascinating as to why middle class American voters would go anywhere near the GOP on economic grounds

I am not a 1%, but when you live in an overwhelmingly blue state and see the way Dems are absolutely fvcking destroying the financial wellbeing of the state by buying votes and giving family members do nothing jobs with pensions some can start taking in their 40s......regular private sector people like me get really angry.

https://howiecarrshow.com/t-pension-list-a-map-of-bulger-fams-free-rides/

I have never lived in a Red State so I don't know what goes on there too, but the mantra I hear so often on here, is that Dems are the party of the little guy and that Republicans and are only out for the 1% is absolute bullshit.  In a state like this Repubs are out for the working people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 02:39:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2016, 12:29:46 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 12:07:35 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 24, 2016, 11:22:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 22, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Whitey you where trying to say that  Bernie Sanders lack of private sector experience means he will perform poorly in office.

Then you turn it into a Dem v Rep thing based on your own presumptions that more democrats are career politicians than republicans.

Firslty Bernie Sanders isnt even a proper Democrat.

Secondly even though its irrelevant I am sure you give us a break down of politicians private sector experience v party allegiance.

Thirdly once you've proved that Im sure you could give us another break down of states economic performance v their politicians political allegiance.

It should be easy enough to prove on way or the other. But I suspect that its a typical political soundbite designed to appeal to popularity as most people work in the private sector and resent the security, stability, rights and benefits of public sector workers, and are frustrated when dealing with the methodical and bureaucratic nature of public services. So when you throw all of that in together people assume that public sector workers dont have a clue how the real world works, however that is based on nothing more than a presumption of the masses. But sure its a usefull way to disparage politicians so who cares if its right or wrong

Again...this is a discussion page, therefore one expresses opinions. My opinions (in my opinion) are very well backed up by facts, even though you may interpret the facts differently than I do.

States run by career politicians (mainly, but not exclusively Democrats) have serious issues with deficits, entitlements and spending that they ignored for decades in an effort to cling to power.

In the sames way that Republicans demonize immigrants and welfare recipients, Democrats demonize high earners and big business. 

Now we have a self styled socialist, career politician, whos playing the class envy card running for office, and you think he will be all of a sudden become fiscally conservative (or at least moderate).....I just cant see it, but agiain thats just my opinion, which is about as valid as yours

Sorry Whitey, have to call BS on this.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/state-economy-ranking-q4-2015-2016-1?r=US&IR=T

This is a link for the states (including DC) economic performance in the final 2 quarters of 2015 - worst performers below

51 - West VA - Democratic Governor
50 - New Mexico - Republican Governor
49 - Oklahoma - Republican Governor
48 - Louisana - Democratic governor (but given the raging dumpster fire that was the state's finances after Jindal, you could almost mark this one red)
47 - Wyoming - Republican governor
46 - Mississippi - Republican governor
45 - Alabama - Republican governor
44 - Arkansas - Republican governor
43 - North Dakota - Republican governor
42 - Missouri - Democratic governor

Anyone else see a pattern emerging? It was the same proportion for the first two quarters of 2015 - 7 red states and 3 blue states in the bottom ten, just some different names - like Christie in NJ and Brownback in Kansas.

Being a career politician has nothing to do with poor economic performance (even though the Republicans are stuffed to the gills with careerists, much as they like to portray themselves as gallant Tea Party outsiders). Poor economic performance comes from poor choices informed by ideology of trickle down, austerity, cutting taxes and hollowing out the state. And if that ideololgy hasn't been discredited by the decline of American cities and infrastructure over the past thirty years, it should surely have been consigned to the dustbin of history after the European experience of the past ten years.

Just in case you forget what the point is. Difficult for a unicorn I know.

Lol....the politicians DONT run the ECONOMY.....they run the STATE....


The politicians are responsible for deficits, credit ratings and pension underfunding and Blue states such as IL, CA, NJ are in serious trouble
pension underfunding is usually ZIRP related so it's a 1% issue.
If American workers had the link between productivity and pay restored growth would return.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 03:04:06 PM
QuoteLol....the politicians DONT run the ECONOMY.....they run the STATE....

Wow - are you seriously saying that policy decisions taken by politicians don't effect the economy? Tell that to the citizens of Kansas, Louisiana et al who have seen their tax base gutted, their deficits ballon and their infrastructure funds raided just to keep the lights on. Hardly "the invisible hand of the market.

QuoteI have never lived in a Red State so I don't know what goes on there too

If that is the case then where does this come from?

QuoteStates run by career politicians (mainly, but not exclusively Democrats) have serious issues with deficits, entitlements and spending that they ignored for decades in an effort to cling to power.

Seems like you've made a huge generalization and you're just trying to back it up.

QuoteI am not a 1%, but when you live in an overwhelmingly blue state and see the way Dems are absolutely fvcking destroying the financial wellbeing of the state by buying votes and giving family members do nothing jobs with pensions some can start taking in their 40s......regular private sector people like me get really angry.

If that is the case, then you have every right to be angry. But I have every right to be skeptical of the source you quoted - notable "conservative" talk show host Howie Carr. It's all a bit echo chambery, isn't it?

Quotethe mantra I hear so often on here, is that Dems are the party of the little guy and that Republicans and are only out for the 1% is absolute bullshit.  In a state like this Repubs are out for the working people

this is the heart of your argument, and what Omaghjoe originally called you on. You have a partisan point of view, and fair dues, you are more than entitled to hold them - but I, and others, are more than entitled to interrogate your view and sources. To be honest, I would hold firmly to the belief that anyone that holds the view above, and is a middle class or working class voter, has swallowed the culture wars Kool Aid - one of the main planks of which is that the GOP are guardians of the blue collar worker. For me to refute that, however, I'm not going to quote Rachel Maddow or Salon.com - I'm going to give you freely available statistics from what is, as far as I can see, an impartial source, that contradicts your generalization.

Once again, we come back to evidence v belief. I know which side I come down on. If you want to graze in the meadows with the unicorns, work away.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 01, 2016, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 02:39:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2016, 12:29:46 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 12:07:35 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 24, 2016, 11:22:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 22, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Whitey you where trying to say that  Bernie Sanders lack of private sector experience means he will perform poorly in office.

Then you turn it into a Dem v Rep thing based on your own presumptions that more democrats are career politicians than republicans.

Firslty Bernie Sanders isnt even a proper Democrat.

Secondly even though its irrelevant I am sure you give us a break down of politicians private sector experience v party allegiance.

Thirdly once you've proved that Im sure you could give us another break down of states economic performance v their politicians political allegiance.

It should be easy enough to prove on way or the other. But I suspect that its a typical political soundbite designed to appeal to popularity as most people work in the private sector and resent the security, stability, rights and benefits of public sector workers, and are frustrated when dealing with the methodical and bureaucratic nature of public services. So when you throw all of that in together people assume that public sector workers dont have a clue how the real world works, however that is based on nothing more than a presumption of the masses. But sure its a usefull way to disparage politicians so who cares if its right or wrong

Again...this is a discussion page, therefore one expresses opinions. My opinions (in my opinion) are very well backed up by facts, even though you may interpret the facts differently than I do.

States run by career politicians (mainly, but not exclusively Democrats) have serious issues with deficits, entitlements and spending that they ignored for decades in an effort to cling to power.

In the sames way that Republicans demonize immigrants and welfare recipients, Democrats demonize high earners and big business. 

Now we have a self styled socialist, career politician, whos playing the class envy card running for office, and you think he will be all of a sudden become fiscally conservative (or at least moderate).....I just cant see it, but agiain thats just my opinion, which is about as valid as yours

Sorry Whitey, have to call BS on this.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/state-economy-ranking-q4-2015-2016-1?r=US&IR=T

This is a link for the states (including DC) economic performance in the final 2 quarters of 2015 - worst performers below

51 - West VA - Democratic Governor
50 - New Mexico - Republican Governor
49 - Oklahoma - Republican Governor
48 - Louisana - Democratic governor (but given the raging dumpster fire that was the state's finances after Jindal, you could almost mark this one red)
47 - Wyoming - Republican governor
46 - Mississippi - Republican governor
45 - Alabama - Republican governor
44 - Arkansas - Republican governor
43 - North Dakota - Republican governor
42 - Missouri - Democratic governor

Anyone else see a pattern emerging? It was the same proportion for the first two quarters of 2015 - 7 red states and 3 blue states in the bottom ten, just some different names - like Christie in NJ and Brownback in Kansas.

Being a career politician has nothing to do with poor economic performance (even though the Republicans are stuffed to the gills with careerists, much as they like to portray themselves as gallant Tea Party outsiders). Poor economic performance comes from poor choices informed by ideology of trickle down, austerity, cutting taxes and hollowing out the state. And if that ideololgy hasn't been discredited by the decline of American cities and infrastructure over the past thirty years, it should surely have been consigned to the dustbin of history after the European experience of the past ten years.

Just in case you forget what the point is. Difficult for a unicorn I know.

Lol....the politicians DONT run the ECONOMY.....they run the STATE....


The politicians are responsible for deficits, credit ratings and pension underfunding and Blue states such as IL, CA, NJ are in serious trouble
pension underfunding is usually ZIRP related so it's a 1% issue.
If American workers had the link between productivity and pay restored growth would return.

And yet higher interest rates are desperately craved by the banks, who are owned by the 1% according to yourself. I really wish the 1% would make up their minds what it is they want.

Pension problems include, but are not limited to, DB schemes unable to pay, draconian funding rules in the crash, politicians pandering to unions offering terms that could never be met (a US problem mainly), various governments raiding easy targets (Ireland, Britain, Argentina, Bulgaria, Poland....) etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2016, 03:43:55 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 03:04:06 PM
QuoteLol....the politicians DONT run the ECONOMY.....they run the STATE....

Wow - are you seriously saying that policy decisions taken by politicians don't effect the economy? Tell that to the citizens of Kansas, Louisiana et al who have seen their tax base gutted, their deficits ballon and their infrastructure funds raided just to keep the lights on. Hardly "the invisible hand of the market.

QuoteI have never lived in a Red State so I don't know what goes on there too

If that is the case then where does this come from?

QuoteStates run by career politicians (mainly, but not exclusively Democrats) have serious issues with deficits, entitlements and spending that they ignored for decades in an effort to cling to power.

Seems like you've made a huge generalization and you're just trying to back it up.

QuoteI am not a 1%, but when you live in an overwhelmingly blue state and see the way Dems are absolutely fvcking destroying the financial wellbeing of the state by buying votes and giving family members do nothing jobs with pensions some can start taking in their 40s......regular private sector people like me get really angry.

If that is the case, then you have every right to be angry. But I have every right to be skeptical of the source you quoted - notable "conservative" talk show host Howie Carr. It's all a bit echo chambery, isn't it?

Quotethe mantra I hear so often on here, is that Dems are the party of the little guy and that Republicans and are only out for the 1% is absolute bullshit.  In a state like this Repubs are out for the working people

this is the heart of your argument, and what Omaghjoe originally called you on. You have a partisan point of view, and fair dues, you are more than entitled to hold them - but I, and others, are more than entitled to interrogate your view and sources. To be honest, I would hold firmly to the belief that anyone that holds the view above, and is a middle class or working class voter, has swallowed the culture wars Kool Aid - one of the main planks of which is that the GOP are guardians of the blue collar worker. For me to refute that, however, I'm not going to quote Rachel Maddow or Salon.com - I'm going to give you freely available statistics from what is, as far as I can see, an impartial source, that contradicts your generalization.

Once again, we come back to evidence v belief. I know which side I come down on. If you want to graze in the meadows with the unicorns, work away.

n cycle IL, MA and MD, (the bluest of the blue) states that voted overwhelmingly for Obama in BOTH 2008 and 2012 voted in Republican governors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2016, 03:48:07 PM
Howie pulled those numbers directly from the states website....so while you may not like him or agree with him,.the numbers are 100 accurate. These aren't "do fvck all" types of jobs, these are "do fvckin nothing" types of jobs created for politically connected people and their families (some of whom retire in their early 40s to land another do nothing job with yet another pension)

Last election Il, MA and MD, (the bluest of the blue states, who overwhelmingly voted for OBAMA in 2008 and 2012) voted in Republican governors
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 04:55:07 PM
Whitey - the example you posted from Howie Carr is about organized crime and its influence on politics - if the GOP had been the dominant party in MA, the Bulgers would have gravitated towards that. It does not cover your original point, that Republicans have a better economic record than careerist Dems. In fact, bad and all as the corruption in Ma seems to be, it has nothing to do with the point you were making. If perhaps, you said that all career pols, Dem and Rep, are susceptible to corruption, you'd probably have a point. There are plenty of GOP examples to go with the one that you are highlighting.

Nor does the existence of 3 Red governors in Blue states point to anything other than the GOPs skill at winning downticket races and their lack of skill in winning the presidency. It does not point to a groundswell of Dem voters revolting against the financial incompetence of their party overloads. Which was your point. There are 50 states, you know.

Listen, everyone know that machine politics in MA has always been dirty - but it doesn't follow that Republicans (in most states, as was your original post) are better economic managers from that fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2016, 05:19:01 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 04:55:07 PM
Whitey - the example you posted from Howie Carr is about organized crime and its influence on politics - if the GOP had been the dominant party in MA, the Bulgers would have gravitated towards that. It does not cover your original point, that Republicans have a better economic record than careerist Dems. In fact, bad and all as the corruption in Ma seems to be, it has nothing to do with the point you were making. If perhaps, you said that all career pols, Dem and Rep, are susceptible to corruption, you'd probably have a point. There are plenty of GOP examples to go with the one that you are highlighting.

Nor does the existence of 3 Red governors in Blue states point to anything other than the GOPs skill at winning downticket races and their lack of skill in winning the presidency. It does not point to a groundswell of Dem voters revolting against the financial incompetence of their party overloads. Which was your point. There are 50 states, you know.

Listen, everyone know that machine politics in MA has always been dirty - but it doesn't follow that Republicans (in most states, as was your original post) are better economic managers from that fact.

While Howies post does mention Whitey, Billy Bulger his brother, who the article is focusing on and who's is pictured in the article, was the most powerful politician in MA FOR DECADES.

Again...believe what you want about why people voted in 3 Republican Governors in 3 of the bluest states in the country-LOL

http://wtax.com/news/101101-rauner-applealed-to-some-independents-democrats/

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/11/05/gops-charlie-baker-defeats-martha-coakley-in-massachusetts/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 05:54:39 PM
I know well who Billy Bulger is, having lived in MA between 96-98 - and he was obviously a corrupt politician, with a very close family connection to organized crime. Extrapolating from his corruption that Republicans in most states are better at managing finances then careerist Dems is bizarre on all levels.

Control of the redistricting process has left Republicans in the majority in legislatures all over the States and in congress. I'm not saying that Dems didn't gerrymander the districts when they had control, it's just that the GOP are doing it on a far bigger and more organized scale - couple that with blatantly racist voter registration laws in many states to combat a non-existent threat (voter fraud) and you have a system guaranteed to produce a few aberrations like 3 Republican governors in 3 ostensibly blue states.

Still doesn't explain your original point - which my original response rebutted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 06:03:20 PM
Interesting you cite WTAX. Carries the Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham shows. How's thing in the echo chamber? Echoey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 06:08:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 02:39:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2016, 12:29:46 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 12:07:35 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 24, 2016, 11:22:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 22, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Whitey you where trying to say that  Bernie Sanders lack of private sector experience means he will perform poorly in office.

Then you turn it into a Dem v Rep thing based on your own presumptions that more democrats are career politicians than republicans.

Firslty Bernie Sanders isnt even a proper Democrat.

Secondly even though its irrelevant I am sure you give us a break down of politicians private sector experience v party allegiance.

Thirdly once you've proved that Im sure you could give us another break down of states economic performance v their politicians political allegiance.

It should be easy enough to prove on way or the other. But I suspect that its a typical political soundbite designed to appeal to popularity as most people work in the private sector and resent the security, stability, rights and benefits of public sector workers, and are frustrated when dealing with the methodical and bureaucratic nature of public services. So when you throw all of that in together people assume that public sector workers dont have a clue how the real world works, however that is based on nothing more than a presumption of the masses. But sure its a usefull way to disparage politicians so who cares if its right or wrong

Again...this is a discussion page, therefore one expresses opinions. My opinions (in my opinion) are very well backed up by facts, even though you may interpret the facts differently than I do.

States run by career politicians (mainly, but not exclusively Democrats) have serious issues with deficits, entitlements and spending that they ignored for decades in an effort to cling to power.

In the sames way that Republicans demonize immigrants and welfare recipients, Democrats demonize high earners and big business. 

Now we have a self styled socialist, career politician, whos playing the class envy card running for office, and you think he will be all of a sudden become fiscally conservative (or at least moderate).....I just cant see it, but agiain thats just my opinion, which is about as valid as yours

Sorry Whitey, have to call BS on this.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/state-economy-ranking-q4-2015-2016-1?r=US&IR=T

This is a link for the states (including DC) economic performance in the final 2 quarters of 2015 - worst performers below

51 - West VA - Democratic Governor
50 - New Mexico - Republican Governor
49 - Oklahoma - Republican Governor
48 - Louisana - Democratic governor (but given the raging dumpster fire that was the state's finances after Jindal, you could almost mark this one red)
47 - Wyoming - Republican governor
46 - Mississippi - Republican governor
45 - Alabama - Republican governor
44 - Arkansas - Republican governor
43 - North Dakota - Republican governor
42 - Missouri - Democratic governor

Anyone else see a pattern emerging? It was the same proportion for the first two quarters of 2015 - 7 red states and 3 blue states in the bottom ten, just some different names - like Christie in NJ and Brownback in Kansas.

Being a career politician has nothing to do with poor economic performance (even though the Republicans are stuffed to the gills with careerists, much as they like to portray themselves as gallant Tea Party outsiders). Poor economic performance comes from poor choices informed by ideology of trickle down, austerity, cutting taxes and hollowing out the state. And if that ideololgy hasn't been discredited by the decline of American cities and infrastructure over the past thirty years, it should surely have been consigned to the dustbin of history after the European experience of the past ten years.

Just in case you forget what the point is. Difficult for a unicorn I know.

Lol....the politicians DONT run the ECONOMY.....they run the STATE....


The politicians are responsible for deficits, credit ratings and pension underfunding and Blue states such as IL, CA, NJ are in serious trouble
pension underfunding is usually ZIRP related so it's a 1% issue.
If American workers had the link between productivity and pay restored growth would return.

And yet higher interest rates are desperately craved by the banks, who are owned by the 1% according to yourself. I really wish the 1% would make up their minds what it is they want.

Pension problems include, but are not limited to, DB schemes unable to pay, draconian funding rules in the crash, politicians pandering to unions offering terms that could never be met (a US problem mainly), various governments raiding easy targets (Ireland, Britain, Argentina, Bulgaria, Poland....) etc.
At the moment debt holders want rates to be as negative as possible cos the lower the discount rates the higher the value of debt.
ZIRP has had the biggest impact on pension scheme insolvency. The BHS scheme was in surplus in 2008 for example.
Banks can always be shorted. They aren't necessarily winners. Deutsche Bank has trouble generating 10% RoE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2016, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 05:54:39 PM
I know well who Billy Bulger is, having lived in MA between 96-98 - and he was obviously a corrupt politician, with a very close family connection to organized crime. Extrapolating from his corruption that Republicans in most states are better at managing finances then careerist Dems is bizarre on all levels.

Control of the redistricting process has left Republicans in the majority in legislatures all over the States and in congress. I'm not saying that Dems didn't gerrymander the districts when they had control, it's just that the GOP are doing it on a far bigger and more organized scale - couple that with blatantly racist voter registration laws in many states to combat a non-existent threat (voter fraud) and you have a system guaranteed to produce a few aberrations like 3 Republican governors in 3 ostensibly blue states.

Still doesn't explain your original point - which my original response rebutted.

You didn't rebut anything....you threw up some ridiculous article chronicling the economic woes of perennially poor states with no significant tax base or industry. Some are rural states with minuscule populations and GDP s that are statistically insignificant

Then you attempted to draw an unbroken line between these states economies and the fact some of them have Republican governors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 01, 2016, 06:26:59 PM
"Banks can always be shorted. They aren't necessarily winners."

If the conspiracy is always by the 1%, and always for the 1%, then how can they ever lose?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 06:26:59 PM
"Banks can always be shorted. They aren't necessarily winners."

If the conspiracy is always by the 1%, and always for the 1%, then how can they ever lose?
it's like rock paper scissors
the people kill the power of the 1%
And it usually happens when they own more than 40% of everything
The French revolution happened at a time economically similar to now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 01, 2016, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 06:26:59 PM
"Banks can always be shorted. They aren't necessarily winners."

If the conspiracy is always by the 1%, and always for the 1%, then how can they ever lose?
it's like rock paper scissors
the people kill the power of the 1%
And it usually happens when they own more than 40% of everything
The French revolution happened at a time economically similar to now.

The answer to 'why does the 1% keeps screwing us?' can't possibly be 'because there is going to be a revolution'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 07:26:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 06:26:59 PM
"Banks can always be shorted. They aren't necessarily winners."

If the conspiracy is always by the 1%, and always for the 1%, then how can they ever lose?
it's like rock paper scissors
the people kill the power of the 1%
And it usually happens when they own more than 40% of everything
The French revolution happened at a time economically similar to now.

The answer to 'why does the 1% keeps screwing us?' can't possibly be 'because there is going to be a revolution'.
why does a dog lick his bollocks?
Why did AIB keep writing dud mortgages?
Why do things fall apart?
Why do fools fall in love?

It doesnt have to be a revolution btw. Bevan was elected. You just need enough people who say stop. The ECB and the Fed have zero credibility but they are still respected. It is called social magic.
The Irish Times was interesting in 2010 when it lookrd as though serious reform might happen. There were loads of articles about how poor the system is. They wouldnt be published now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 07:28:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2016, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 05:54:39 PM
I know well who Billy Bulger is, having lived in MA between 96-98 - and he was obviously a corrupt politician, with a very close family connection to organized crime. Extrapolating from his corruption that Republicans in most states are better at managing finances then careerist Dems is bizarre on all levels.

Control of the redistricting process has left Republicans in the majority in legislatures all over the States and in congress. I'm not saying that Dems didn't gerrymander the districts when they had control, it's just that the GOP are doing it on a far bigger and more organized scale - couple that with blatantly racist voter registration laws in many states to combat a non-existent threat (voter fraud) and you have a system guaranteed to produce a few aberrations like 3 Republican governors in 3 ostensibly blue states.

Still doesn't explain your original point - which my original response rebutted.

You didn't rebut anything....you threw up some ridiculous article chronicling the economic woes of perennially poor states with no significant tax base or industry. Some are rural states with minuscule populations and GDP s that are statistically insignificant

Then you attempted to draw an unbroken line between these states economies and the fact some of them have Republican governors.

It wasn't an article - it was series of independent reports detailing economic performance across 7 metrics in each state which is then collated into an average - and you can reference them for any time period you want. The reason some of these states have no significant tax base is because it is Republican policy to reduce the size of government and reduce taxes - with predictable results as in Kansas and Louisiana.

Whereas you reference partisan right wing websites and one particular scandal in your home state and then attempt to draw an unbroken line between them and the belief that Republicans in many states manage finances better than careerist Democrats.

I'll let others be the judge as to whose sources are more factual.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 07:33:15 PM
Has anyone any thoughts on the republicans post Trump and the senate elections? If the voters dump the policies where does that leave the party?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 01, 2016, 07:58:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 07:26:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 06:26:59 PM
"Banks can always be shorted. They aren't necessarily winners."

If the conspiracy is always by the 1%, and always for the 1%, then how can they ever lose?
it's like rock paper scissors
the people kill the power of the 1%
And it usually happens when they own more than 40% of everything
The French revolution happened at a time economically similar to now.

The answer to 'why does the 1% keeps screwing us?' can't possibly be 'because there is going to be a revolution'.
why does a dog lick his bollocks?
Why did AIB keep writing dud mortgages?
Why do things fall apart?
Why do fools fall in love?

It doesnt have to be a revolution btw. Bevan was elected. You just need enough people who say stop. The ECB and the Fed have zero credibility but they are still respected. It is called social magic.
The Irish Times was interesting in 2010 when it lookrd as though serious reform might happen. There were loads of articles about how poor the system is. They wouldnt be published now.

Hang on.

You keep telling us it is all about the 1% and their neoliberalism conspiracy to impoverish us.

And you consistently tell us it will all end, referencing, for example, the French Revolution.

When asked a direct question all you give is riddles.

But I will keep trying.

"It doesnt have to be a revolution btw." Ok, firstly if there hasn't been a revolution in the likes of Greece and Argentina then there isn't going to be one anywhere else. People with something to lose don't typically revolt. So if it isn't revolution, what has a Welsh politician who has been dead for 66 years have to do with Anglo & The Fed etc??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 08:13:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 07:58:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 07:26:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2016, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 06:26:59 PM
"Banks can always be shorted. They aren't necessarily winners."

If the conspiracy is always by the 1%, and always for the 1%, then how can they ever lose?
it's like rock paper scissors
the people kill the power of the 1%
And it usually happens when they own more than 40% of everything
The French revolution happened at a time economically similar to now.

The answer to 'why does the 1% keeps screwing us?' can't possibly be 'because there is going to be a revolution'.
why does a dog lick his bollocks?
Why did AIB keep writing dud mortgages?
Why do things fall apart?
Why do fools fall in love?

It doesnt have to be a revolution btw. Bevan was elected. You just need enough people who say stop. The ECB and the Fed have zero credibility but they are still respected. It is called social magic.
The Irish Times was interesting in 2010 when it lookrd as though serious reform might happen. There were loads of articles about how poor the system is. They wouldnt be published now.

Hang on.

You keep telling us it is all about the 1% and their neoliberalism conspiracy to impoverish us.

And you consistently tell us it will all end, referencing, for example, the French Revolution.

When asked a direct question all you give is riddles.

But I will keep trying.

"It doesnt have to be a revolution btw." Ok, firstly if there hasn't been a revolution in the likes of Greece and Argentina then there isn't going to be one anywhere else. People with something to lose don't typically revolt. So if it isn't revolution, what has a Welsh politician who has been dead for 66 years have to do with Anglo & The Fed etc??
it is not hard,  muppet. The only thing that ever put smacht on the 1% is political power. Bevan was elected at the end of the last cycle with a mandate of change. OECD debt to gdp ratios were similar to now and via financial repression over 15 years the level.was halved. Equities went nowhere for a decade. In order for change to happen you need enough people who want something better. Doesnt have to be a revolution. The question now is do we need a financial meltdown first.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 01, 2016, 10:31:34 PM
There may be another financial meltdown. In fact I posted links for a few years of people who have predicted a dollar crash. I think something has to give with the US debt mountain, but I am not smart enough to figure out how it will manifest itself.

I think the same regarding derivatives, and again I wouldn't pretend to have a clue what will happen there when the whole thing concertinas in on itself.

You keep referencing revolution and left wing politicians and politics, well I just don't see that happening in the West. Has there ever been a revolution whereby the 1% wasn't simply replaced by the neo-1%? You'll have to excuse me if I pronounce my distaste for robbing Vladimir to pay Josef. I see no good in it and plenty of downside.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2016, 02:41:46 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 07:28:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2016, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 01, 2016, 05:54:39 PM
I know well who Billy Bulger is, having lived in MA between 96-98 - and he was obviously a corrupt politician, with a very close family connection to organized crime. Extrapolating from his corruption that Republicans in most states are better at managing finances then careerist Dems is bizarre on all levels.

Control of the redistricting process has left Republicans in the majority in legislatures all over the States and in congress. I'm not saying that Dems didn't gerrymander the districts when they had control, it's just that the GOP are doing it on a far bigger and more organized scale - couple that with blatantly racist voter registration laws in many states to combat a non-existent threat (voter fraud) and you have a system guaranteed to produce a few aberrations like 3 Republican governors in 3 ostensibly blue states.

Still doesn't explain your original point - which my original response rebutted.

You didn't rebut anything....you threw up some ridiculous article chronicling the economic woes of perennially poor states with no significant tax base or industry. Some are rural states with minuscule populations and GDP s that are statistically insignificant

Then you attempted to draw an unbroken line between these states economies and the fact some of them have Republican governors.

It wasn't an article - it was series of independent reports detailing economic performance across 7 metrics in each state which is then collated into an average - and you can reference them for any time period you want. The reason some of these states have no significant tax base is because it is Republican policy to reduce the size of government and reduce taxes - with predictable results as in Kansas and Louisiana.

Whereas you reference partisan right wing websites and one particular scandal in your home state and then attempt to draw an unbroken line between them and the belief that Republicans in many states manage finances better than careerist Democrats.

I'll let others be the judge as to whose sources are more factual.

Facts of all persuasions are open to interpreation.....yours are and mine are.

Heres a Chicago Tribune editorial showing that not everything is as black and white as we would like to believe

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-rauner-madigan-cullerton-unions-turnaround-edit-0410-jm-20160408-story.html




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 02, 2016, 05:39:59 AM
Whitey this is a load of balls, you dont like Sanders because he's a leftie, at the root of it you probably value opportunity more than equality, which is fine, Im cool with that.

But this side show you and tiger have got going is irrelevant to that point, do you really think stats about different states and the length of politicians careers prove a thing about the way Sanders would govern? Its a complete nonsense red herring
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2016, 08:15:53 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 10:31:34 PM
There may be another financial meltdown. In fact I posted links for a few years of people who have predicted a dollar crash. I think something has to give with the US debt mountain, but I am not smart enough to figure out how it will manifest itself.

I think the same regarding derivatives, and again I wouldn't pretend to have a clue what will happen there when the whole thing concertinas in on itself.

You keep referencing revolution and left wing politicians and politics, well I just don't see that happening in the West. Has there ever been a revolution whereby the 1% wasn't simply replaced by the neo-1%? You'll have to excuse me if I pronounce my distaste for robbing Vladimir to pay Josef. I see no good in it and plenty of downside.
Brideshead revisited covers the last time there was a transfer of economic power from the rich to the rest.

In US, presidents like Roosevelt and McKinley implemented policies that promoted growth rather than the interests of debt holders. It always breaks down at some point

If the money was spread around a bit better growth would be no hassle.
the key thing in the US is that workers haven't had pay linked to productivity improvements for over 30 years.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/15/40-years-of-economic-policy-in-one-chart

https://www.pimco.com/insights/economic-and-market-commentary/investment-outlook/six-packin
It is obvious that "capital" as opposed to "labor" – moving from 8 to 13% of GNI over the past three or even 30 years – has been the cyclical and secular champion. Why one or the other should be policy and politically advantaged is not commonsensically clear. Granted, the return on capital as opposed to the return to labor should logically be higher if only to encourage savings. But once an historical midpoint or range has been established, a relative equilibrium should be observed. Even conservatives must acknowledge that return on capital investment, and the liquid stocks and bonds that mimic it, are ultimately dependent on returns to labor in the form of jobs and real wage gains. If Main Street is unemployed and undercompensated, capital can only travel so far down Prosperity Road.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2016, 09:19:14 PM
Violent protests again last night in San jose by anti trump protesters who carry Mexican flags and burn U.S. flags ,attack people who are going to rally and attack police and all the while the mayor of San jose blames trump for the violence on his own police force. Then you have some unreal dumbasses with trump face in a hitler flag and they are waving la raza flags .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2016, 10:16:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 02, 2016, 05:39:59 AM
Whitey this is a load of balls, you dont like Sanders because he's a leftie, at the root of it you probably value opportunity more than equality, which is fine, Im cool with that.

But this side show you and tiger have got going is irrelevant to that point, do you really think stats about different states and the length of politicians careers prove a thing about the way Sanders would govern? Its a complete nonsense red herring

Eh....it's not irrelevant

A multitude of posters on here cant understand why anyone other than a gizziolionaire could support the Republicans.

If your a private sector middle income earner living in a blue state that's been bankrupted by career politicians, you'll figure it out pretty quickly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2016, 10:32:42 PM
38000 new jobs in May vs 160000 expected. The US economy is banjaxed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 04, 2016, 04:52:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2016, 10:16:14 PM
If your a private sector middle income earner living in a blue state that's been bankrupted by career politicians, you'll figure it out pretty quickly

And which states are those, the bankrupted ones? I missed that news. Was it recent?

Why is it that unqualified uneducated paid to push a one sided agenda entertainers are credible sources of information, but scientists, historians, economists and statisticians are not?

Why is it that voters do not look after their own best interests?

Blue Peter badge for the best answers on a post card to the usual address
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 04, 2016, 05:14:07 AM
Just in case the sarcasm wasn't clear in the post above, states can not go bankrupt, ever. States are sovereign and can default on a debt but not go bankrupt. They are sovereign territory and bankruptcy would put them in the control of a federal judge, which means they Would cease to be a state. As you can imagine there are a few legal and constitutional hurdles preventing that happening, but not on the "news" or on the campaign  trail, where apparently, all reality has been suspended. In case you are reading this far into the post and actually care, Arkansas in 1933 was there last state to default, it may have been Hilary's fault depending on who you ask.
They was a case in 1841 where 8 states defaulted, that certain politicians continue to refer to as bankruptcy but it was actually a default. Politicians not typically big fans of the truth, both like talk show radio hosts or TV hosts reality TV or otherwise.

I continued to hope the Republican nomination process is going to be revealed as the next Truman show and that only when Kim Kardashian gets the VP nomination will the penny drop. However the Palin precedent makes that unlikely. Also Hilary is going to drop out last minute and give Bloomberg an unexpected free run...
I'm going back downstairs for my happy pills

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2016, 10:30:15 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 04, 2016, 05:14:07 AM
Just in case the sarcasm wasn't clear in the post above, states can not go bankrupt, ever. States are sovereign and can default on a debt but not go bankrupt. They are sovereign territory and bankruptcy would put them in the control of a federal judge, which means they Would cease to be a state. As you can imagine there are a few legal and constitutional hurdles preventing that happening, but not on the "news" or on the campaign  trail, where apparently, all reality has been suspended. In case you are reading this far into the post and actually care, Arkansas in 1933 was there last state to default, it may have been Hilary's fault depending on who you ask.
They was a case in 1841 where 8 states defaulted, that certain politicians continue to refer to as bankruptcy but it was actually a default. Politicians not typically big fans of the truth, both like talk show radio hosts or TV hosts reality TV or otherwise.

I continued to hope the Republican nomination process is going to be revealed as the next Truman show and that only when Kim Kardashian gets the VP nomination will the penny drop. However the Palin precedent makes that unlikely. Also Hilary is going to drop out last minute and give Bloomberg an unexpected free run...
I'm going back downstairs for my happy pills

My aopoogies for the improper use of the term "bankrupt".

Perhaps insolvent would have been a more accurate term.

Again.....believe whatever you want


http://abcnews.go.com/Business/state-bankruptcy-change-life-public-pensioners-bond-holders/story?id=12732137

"Under existing law, a state cannot go bankrupt. That's not because the action is forbidden. Not the U.S. Constitution nor any other piece of paper says a state cannot. The bankruptcy code simply does not address the possibility.

Now lawyers, politicians and other ingenious folk are looking for a way around that problem -- a fact that should come as no surprise, given the perilous financial health of California, Illinois and other states encumbered with crushing debt"


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-21/the-case-for-allowing-u-s-states-to-declare-bankruptcy

"States can't seek legal protection from their debts, but there's a move on to change that."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 07, 2016, 12:42:22 PM
Game on. Hilary has clinched the nomination as per the AP

Clinton vs trump

Will the Dems sweep the house too?

Current models show a landslide in the presidential campaign. If the Latin, black and female vote comes out in numbers this will change the Republican party beyond all recognition.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2016, 12:33:29 AM
Bad, bad couple of days for Trump too.

Even Paul Ryan called his comments on the judge "racist". Lindsay Graham said Trump had presented anyone harbouring doubts with an "exit ramp" to withdraw their support.  Jeff Flake said he could not support him. Mark Kirk withdrew his endorsement, saying Trump can't be trusted with the nuclear codes or to lead the military.

And, after reportedly going mad yesterday when a staffer advised his surrogates to stop discussing the judge, Trump himself came out today and said he wouldn't discuss it anymore, but that his comments had somehow been "misconstrued" (he didn't explain how).

Maybe "his African American"  who turned out not to be a supporter or the black family he stuck in a tv ad to show he was getting support, only to have the family disavow him as well, can help him out!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2016, 05:22:46 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 07, 2016, 12:42:22 PM
Game on. Hilary has clinched the nomination as per the AP

Clinton vs trump

Will the Dems sweep the house too?

Current models show a landslide in the presidential campaign. If the Latin, black and female vote comes out in numbers this will change the Republican party beyond all recognition.
Trump will lose .
The GOP has zero coherence. Trump says something. Ryan contradicts him. Or condemns him. How are they supposed to present policies to the public for the Senate votes?
The collapse of the GOP is serious shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2016, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 08, 2016, 05:22:46 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 07, 2016, 12:42:22 PM
Game on. Hilary has clinched the nomination as per the AP

Clinton vs trump

Will the Dems sweep the house too?

Current models show a landslide in the presidential campaign. If the Latin, black and female vote comes out in numbers this will change the Republican party beyond all recognition.
Trump will lose .
The GOP has zero coherence. Trump says something. Ryan contradicts him. Or condemns him. How are they supposed to present policies to the public for the Senate votes?
The collapse of the GOP is serious shit.

I'd say Trump will definitely lose BUT Hillarys unfavorables are even higher than Trumps and Hillary  may also get indicted between now and the election.....so who really knows
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: JoG2 on June 08, 2016, 10:47:03 AM
a serious article from WW

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/06/07/america-fucked/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on June 08, 2016, 05:05:51 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 08, 2016, 10:47:03 AM
a serious article from WW

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/06/07/america-fucked/

America was great while it lasted

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 08, 2016, 05:16:58 PM
there has to be an independent candidate to shake things up
Austin Peterson is getting some attention from traditional republican voters..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 08, 2016, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2016, 05:16:58 PM
there has to be an independent candidate to shake things up
Austin Peterson is getting some attention from traditional republican voters..

If an independent runs Hillary is a shoo in!!

I'd love to see it Trump would go completely berserk it would be fantastic!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2016, 09:38:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 08, 2016, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2016, 05:16:58 PM
there has to be an independent candidate to shake things up
Austin Peterson is getting some attention from traditional republican voters..

If an independent runs Hillary is a shoo in!!

I'd love to see it Trump would go completely berserk it would be fantastic!
If a Traditional Gopper runs ,Hill wins but if Bernie joined in it would be gas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 08, 2016, 11:48:46 PM
If Hillary wants to get the Berniecrats on board she'll have to pick someone like Elizabeth Warren as a running mate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 09, 2016, 02:08:58 AM
Stranger things have happened
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on June 09, 2016, 03:29:17 AM
I'd like to see it happen, Eamonn.  At least it would draw in some of the disaffected Bernie supporters.  But can you imagine the misogynistic furor at a two-woman ticket.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2016, 04:26:21 AM
Yes. It'd drive conservatives nuts. They'd argue that there are too many women on the ticket, while probably having too many men on their own side. A sight to behold.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 09, 2016, 12:36:34 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 09, 2016, 03:29:17 AM
I'd like to see it happen, Eamonn.  At least it would draw in some of the disaffected Bernie supporters.  But can you imagine the misogynistic furor at a two-woman ticket.

Hopefully the other one is a black mexican transgender muslim.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 09, 2016, 01:48:56 PM
so the new york times have just gone ahead with calling the Drumpf an outright racist.
very tough to argue with any of the content.
Maths, demographics and gerrymandering are now so far against him now that the Republican party will be facing significantly damning results later this year that wholesale party reform and a new GOP that are being discussed in serious terms may actually come to pass. The interesting part of this argument to me is that it is the first time I have seen main stream media call out the ingrained racism within the Republican party, a very calculated bet for electoral success over the last 30 years, but now one that could prove to be their downfall.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/opinion/campaign-stops/why-republicans-wont-renounce-trump.html

by Andrew Rosenthal

QuoteWhen Donald Trump attacked a federal judge whose parents were born in Mexico, Hispanic Americans were outraged. Other minority groups saw a pattern of bigotry. Democrats had a hard time concealing their glee. Republican leaders pretended they disapproved.

Well, to be fair, they did disapprove in a way — not because Trump believes the things he says, but because he says them so directly.

Far too many Republicans share this kind of racism and have for a long time. Trump has just dispensed with dog whistles and revels in his bigotry instead. But this is the party the Republicans have been deliberately and assiduously building for many decades, the party of division and intolerance. George H.W. Bush's racist tactics in 1988 against Michael Dukakis — the Willie Horton ad in particular — seem almost genteel by comparison.

Today's Republicans have stymied every effort at reforming immigration, at achieving true equality for women, at ending the scourge of racist drug laws and criminal sentencing rules. The Republican Party has generated a wave of laws designed to make it harder for black Americans and other minorities to vote. It's not that Republicans don't want to deport millions of Mexicans and ban Muslims from our shores. They just don't like to talk about it in the open.

So when Donald Trump started to attack Mexicans, Muslims and anyone else who popped into his head, Republican leaders may have thought it was bad tactics. But all that talk this year about the "Republican establishment" being aghast at Trump for his outlandish ideas was nonsense.

What really bothers Republicans is that Trump is not a member of their club and did not observe party discipline by saving his disdain for Democrats.

None of Trump's Republican challengers, of course, had the vision, the guts or the personality to defeat him, and now it's far too late. By the time Trump attacked Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who is hearing one of the lawsuits against Trump's infomercial disguised as a university, the Republican leadership had long since painted itself into a corner.

Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican majority leader, could not stir himself to call Trump's comments racist. McConnell said on "Meet the Press" last Sunday that he did not agree with Trump that the judge should recuse himself, but that was all the interviewer could get out of what passes for a statesman in the G.O.P. these days.

Asked about one right-wing blogger who said Republicans were backing a racist candidate, McConnell simpered that what matters is winning the White House. "The right-of-center world needs to respect the fact that the primary voters have spoken," he said.

Yes, in favor of blatant intolerance.

Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, who practically strained his back flipping from denouncing Trump to endorsing him, said that "claiming a person can't do their job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment. I think that should be absolutely disavowed. It's absolutely unacceptable."

Not so unacceptable that he is withdrawing his endorsement. "I believe that we have more common ground on the policy issues of the day and we have more likelihood of getting our policies enacted with him than we do with her," he said, referring to Hillary Clinton.

Senator Tim Scott, the highest-ranking black Republican, would not revoke his endorsement after what he called "racially toxic" comments.

What about John McCain, whom Donald Trump once mocked for getting captured and tortured by the North Vietnamese? Surely he was outraged. Nope.

One or two Republicans dissented, but most of them are on the outs with their party anyway. Bill Kristol, the neoconservative commentator who evidently loathes Trump, tweeted: "Official position of the leadership of the Republican Party: Trump is an inexcusable bigot, and Trump must be our next president."

Given the cowardice of his fellow members of the party of Lincoln, Trump is, naturally, doubling down on running for racist in chief.

On Monday, Bloomberg Politics reported that Trump told campaign surrogates in a conference call to keep up the attack on Judge Curiel. And on Tuesday, he said in a statement, "It is unfortunate that my comments have been misconstrued as a categorical attack against people of Mexican heritage." His evidence for his tolerance was, as usual, that he has lots of Mexican-Americans working for him.

Trump said he would not comment further on the lawsuit against Trump University or the judge. He doesn't have to. Mission accomplished, as George W. Bush might say. But he obviously plans to go on riding this tiger — because he thinks it will take him into the White House; because he is engaged in a creepy act of self destruction to avoid actually having to be president, which is hard work; or simply because he enjoys making bigoted comments.

Supporters of Bernie Sanders who talk about voting for Trump instead of Clinton if their candidate finally decides to drop out should consider this latest episode, and Trump's larger pattern, carefully. They should know they would be voting for a racist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on June 09, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
http://observers.france24.com/en/20160609-trump-photo-girl-blood-fake-debunked (http://observers.france24.com/en/20160609-trump-photo-girl-blood-fake-debunked)

Are we sure that this election is even real anymore?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2016, 09:29:56 PM
Quote from: Declan on June 09, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
http://observers.france24.com/en/20160609-trump-photo-girl-blood-fake-debunked (http://observers.france24.com/en/20160609-trump-photo-girl-blood-fake-debunked)

Are we sure that this election is even real anymore?

Oops!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 09, 2016, 10:31:34 PM
Quote from: Declan on June 09, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
http://observers.france24.com/en/20160609-trump-photo-girl-blood-fake-debunked (http://observers.france24.com/en/20160609-trump-photo-girl-blood-fake-debunked)

Are we sure that this election is even real anymore?

Don't know why they'd bother......the real attacks are well documented..... (

(Imagine if your wife, girlfriend or mother was attacked like that)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/03/ugly-bloody-scenes-in-san-jose-as-protesters-attack-trump-supporters-outside-rally/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 09, 2016, 11:50:12 PM
Say for example your wife girlfriend or mother was walking around in a KKK shirt (or that of any other well known racist person or organization) in Harlem, DC or Newark and got egged and had food thrown at them...
You'd wonder at what they were thinking and tell them they were lucky. And not to be such a dumbass again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2016, 02:06:58 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 09, 2016, 11:50:12 PM
Say for example your wife girlfriend or mother was walking around in a KKK shirt (or that of any other well known racist person or organization) in Harlem, DC or Newark and got egged and had food thrown at them...
You'd wonder at what they were thinking and tell them they were lucky. And not to be such a dumbass again
they were going to a political rally whether you like candidate or not that behavior is not on .
Would you like a son of a relation of yours sucker punched in the back of the head by some little gangsters .  Elizabeth warren . Hillary Clinton  my god we are in trouble and the donks on here can't wait for it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 10, 2016, 03:14:01 AM
GMAC, some policy issues that you didn't agree with from the Democratic nominee?

Love to hear which ones.

You can't disagree with the Republican nominees policies, as they have yet to be shared with us, though admittedly they will be great, the best policies, world leading policies. And he knows policies, policies with the Chinese, the Russians. And he has run many businesses, so perfectly qualified to lead the united states out of the mess it's in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2016, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 10, 2016, 03:14:01 AM
GMAC, some policy issues that you didn't agree with from the Democratic nominee?

Love to hear which ones.

You can't disagree with the Republican nominees policies, as they have yet to be shared with us, though admittedly they will be great, the best policies, world leading policies. And he knows policies, policies with the Chinese, the Russians. And he has run many businesses, so perfectly qualified to lead the united states out of the mess it's in.

He has given us some hints though... telling treasury bond holders to f**k themselves...telling NATO members the US is done and that the Japanese and Germans should start rebuilding their armies...trade wars with China...kicking the shit out of ISIS...bans on muslims visiting the US...a tremendous, beautiful big wall from Tijuana to Brownsville which the Mexicans will pay for...bringing back steel and coal jobs somehow...

Its gonna be tremendous!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2016, 02:13:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 10, 2016, 03:14:01 AM
GMAC, some policy issues that you didn't agree with from the Democratic nominee?

Love to hear which ones.

You can't disagree with the Republican nominees policies, as they have yet to be shared with us, though admittedly they will be great, the best policies, world leading policies. And he knows policies, policies with the Chinese, the Russians. And he has run many businesses, so perfectly qualified to lead the united states out of the mess it's in.
her policies are the same as Obamas which is what worries me .
The democrats are going way to far to the left on a lot of issues and I don't think the country will be in a good place after 4/8 more years of these policies .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2016, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2016, 02:06:58 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 09, 2016, 11:50:12 PM
Say for example your wife girlfriend or mother was walking around in a KKK shirt (or that of any other well known racist person or organization) in Harlem, DC or Newark and got egged and had food thrown at them...
You'd wonder at what they were thinking and tell them they were lucky. And not to be such a dumbass again
they were going to a political rally whether you like candidate or not that behavior is not on .
Would you like a son of a relation of yours sucker punched in the back of the head by some little gangsters .  Elizabeth warren . Hillary Clinton  my god we are in trouble and the donks on here can't wait for it

Violence at Trump rallies started, INSIDE the rallies, cheered at those rallies by Trump himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 10, 2016, 04:02:09 PM
Interesting piece on Clinton and the impact of the Indictment, and the likelihood of that happening in the first place:

admittedly from the guardian so read into that what you will.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/10/hillary-clinton-emails-analysis-possible-indictment-fbi

Quote
Did Hillary Clinton do the wrong thing when she used a private email server while secretary of state from 2009 to 2013?

Yes. She herself has admitted that it was a mistake. A recent report by the state department inspector general found that she broke multiple rules despite repeated warnings to use official communications methods that would ensure her emails were stored and kept safe from hackers.

Did she break the law?

As an FBI investigation continues, expert opinion is divided. Some offer a view reminiscent of Bill Clinton's famous remark that he experimented with marijuana but "didn't inhale". "I believe Clinton did break the law but at the same time I don't think there's evidence she committed a crime," says Douglas Cox, associate professor at City University of New York School of Law.

It is a violation of federal records law to remove or destroy material, Cox notes, although Clinton "in part" fixed this by returning thousands of emails. More important in assessing whether a crime was committed is the question of intent, Cox says. "While there were warnings and memos that she should have been aware of, from a prosecution side they would need to prove her knowledge and intent and have evidence of that to bring before a jury."

Cox believes such evidence is lacking. In this sense the case is different from those of retired general David Petraeus, former director of the CIA, and Sandy Berger, ex-national security adviser, both of whom handled information they knew was classified and were wilfully deceitful.

But a minority disagree with this analysis. Republican congressman Chris Stewart, who as a member of the House intelligence committee has read secret emails found on Clinton's server, says: "She did reveal classified means. She did reveal classified methods. She did reveal classified human assets."

Stewart, a former air force B1-bomber pilot, adds: "If I had behaved that way in the military, I would be very concerned about my legal future."

State department and intelligence officials have identified 2,093 email chains from Clinton's server as containing classified information. Twenty-two were deemed so highly classified that they were withheld from release to the public. Clinton contends that none of the messages was marked classified at the time.

But former US attorney Joseph DiGenova is blunt: "I don't think there's any question Mrs Clinton and her staff broke the law. She maintained a server in her private home in Chappaqua, New York, and conducted government business. This clearly was beyond gross negligence.

"When she set up the server, the intent was to avoid accountability. There is no other intent required. The notion this is not a violation of the law is ludicrous. If she and her staff get a pass, there will be hell to pay in the intelligence community."

A critical editorial in the Washington Post said last month: "While not illegal behavior, it was disturbingly unmindful of the rules. In the middle of the presidential campaign, we urge the FBI to finish its own investigation soon, so all information about this troubling episode will be before the voters."

So how likely is it that Clinton will be indicted when the FBI hands its report to the Department of Justice?

"That is not going to happen," Clinton herself told Fox News on Wednesday. "There is no basis for it and I'm looking forward to it being wrapped up as soon as possible."

Many analysts agree with her. Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation Of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, says: "I would estimate the probability at zero. There's no criminal offence here; there's bad policy practice. There's possible obstruction of record management and freedom of information practices."


Stephen Vladeck, law professor at American University Washington College of Law, adds: "I think an indictment is very unlikely because the evidence is very unclear that she broke the law and the statutes are vague and open-ended – and they are rarely enforced. It's not a violation of US law to use unsecured forums to discuss sensitive information."

But a longtime government lawyer, who does not wish to be named, muses: "My gut is telling me she won't be indicted. It would also have told you Donald Trump won't be nominated."

Some are convinced she will be. Dave Handy, a political organiser who will represent Bernie Sanders as a delegate-at-large at the Democratic convention in Philadelphia, tweeted: "It's going to be funny to watch when Hillary gets indicted, and all her supporters are like: [with a gif of a person's head exploding]."

He says: "There's been a large push online to say this investigation is over and Hillary Clinton has been cleared and nothing's going to happen. I think that's total bullshit in that no one knows what's happening at the FBI and, if they did, they [the FBI or those outside the bureau with knowledge of the investigation] broke the law.

"I would hope that if the FBI determines that she has broken the law, she will be indicted. I would hope that we have the strength and courage as a country to hold everyone to the law."

Dan Metcalfe, a Democrat who served as director of the Department of Justice's Office of Information and Privacy for more than 25 years, wrote in a column last month: "So what you must contemplate, as a leader of the Democratic Party, is the very real possibility of your likely presidential candidate actually being indicted, on criminal charges, sometime between now and, say, (a) the time of the convention at the end of July; (b) the time of the general election in early November; or (c) Inauguration Day in January. Which possibility would you prefer?"

Is anyone else in the line of fire?

Yes. Clinton's former chief of staff Cheryl Mills and her deputy Huma Abedin have both been interviewed by the FBI during the investigation and could be in more trouble than she is.

The nameless former government lawyer says: "Aides of hers are, sadly, in jeopardy. Did they transfer stuff from classified accounts to unclassified accounts, for example by retyping parts of messages on to a smartphone and sending them to Clinton? It's the kind of thing people get indicted for."

It seems highly unlikely that Barack Obama and the attorney general, Loretta Lynch, would do anything to jeopardise Clinton's historic candidacy, which Obama backed on Thursday, he adds. "I can't imagine Lynch doing it but it's not inconceivable the FBI report will leak and say a lot of critical things. There's nothing good coming out of that investigation."

That could yet have political fallout before the election and, if she wins it, there might even be pressure for President Clinton to face a special prosecutor, like Richard Nixon before her.

If Clinton is indicted, what would happen?

Innocent until proven guilty, she would not be legally barred from running for president. Handy draws parallels with Sheldon Silver, the former speaker of the New York assembly who last month was jailed for 12 years for corruption.

"I would hope that she would step down but even given Shelly Silvers' indictment, it took tremendous pressure to get him to step down as speaker. Even if there were an indictment, I don't know if she would step aside. I would hope someone indicted would say, 'For the good of the party, for the good of the nation.' But her supporters would probably say, 'She deserves her day in court'."


While she would not be arrested, experts say, she would normally be expected to appear in court. The optics would be disastrous for a would be commander-in-chief but she could apply to have the charges dismissed or plead to a minor dismeanour in the hope that it would not necessarily disqualify her.

The political, media and public pressure on Clinton might be overwhelming, however, making her candidacy untenable and prompting a sensational, unprecedented and humiliating withdrawal.

Stewart says: "I don't know how you couldn't pull out, especially for something like this involving national security."

Cox adds: "If charges came down before the convention, it would raise questions over whether the Democratic party really wanted to proceed with a nominee facing criminal charges but, again, I think it is very unlikely that is going to happen."

But what if she is forced to pull out?

The Democratic party's charter and bylaws state that responsibility for finding a replacement nominee would fall to the Democratic National Committee, but the rules do not specify exactly how this would be done.

Sanders would presumably claim that he should inherit the mantle of nominee after pushing Clinton close in the primaries and earning the right to face Donald Trump. Indeed, it has been speculated that the Vermont senator has clung on so long in case the FBI investigation proves a cataclysmic event for the former first lady and a gamechanger for him.


Handy, 28, says: "Obviously I would hope they would pick Bernie. Having watched him bring so many of my peers into the fold and being excited and engaged finally is such a breath of fresh air. It gives me hope for the future.

"But I think the party could be unified around a Joe Biden or an Elizabeth Warren. Both of these have very favourable numbers."

Asked how he and other Sanders supporters would react to such a move, Handy replies: "I personally wouldn't go ballistic. I can't speak for everyone. I hope there's unity in the party because at the end of the day the most important thing is stopping Donald Trump and winning down-ballot races. We have to take back the Congress."

Biden held talks with Warren in Washington last August and it has been reported that he would have chosen her as his running mate if he had taken the plunge and run for president. If Clinton withdraws, that ticket could be revived.

Rich Galen, former press secretary to Vice-President Dan Quayle, says: "I think Joe Biden would be the nominee in about 25 seconds. If his son Beau hadn't died last year, he probably would have run and he probably would have won the nomination.

"It can't be Bernie Sanders: I don't care what the polls say, Americans are not going to elect a democratic socialist as the president of the United States."

DiGenova concurs: "Joe Biden would be a natural. It's well-known in Washington that he is tanned, rested and ready."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2016, 04:06:15 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-donor-sensitive-intelligence-board/story?id=39710624



"Newly released State Department emails help reveal how a major Clinton Foundation donor was placed on a sensitive government intelligence advisory board even though he had no obvious experience in the field, a decision that appeared to baffle the department's professional staff."


WOW
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2016, 04:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2016, 04:06:15 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-donor-sensitive-intelligence-board/story?id=39710624



"Newly released State Department emails help reveal how a major Clinton Foundation donor was placed on a sensitive government intelligence advisory board even though he had no obvious experience in the field, a decision that appeared to baffle the department's professional staff."


WOW

Wow is right.

It is absolutely shocking that the board overseeing nuclear threats doesn't consider cyber security a remotely relevant qualification.  :D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2016, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2016, 04:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2016, 04:06:15 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-donor-sensitive-intelligence-board/story?id=39710624



"Newly released State Department emails help reveal how a major Clinton Foundation donor was placed on a sensitive government intelligence advisory board even though he had no obvious experience in the field, a decision that appeared to baffle the department's professional staff."


WOW

Wow is right.

It is absolutely shocking that the board overseeing nuclear threats doesn't consider cyber security a remotely relevant qualification.  :D

LOL.....not that I have any "real" inside sources, but anecdotally what I have heard (from people with some third party inside info)  is that the reason she deleted the 33000 "personal" emails is there was some "pay to play" shenanigans involving the Clinton Foundation

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2016, 04:24:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2016, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2016, 04:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2016, 04:06:15 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-donor-sensitive-intelligence-board/story?id=39710624



"Newly released State Department emails help reveal how a major Clinton Foundation donor was placed on a sensitive government intelligence advisory board even though he had no obvious experience in the field, a decision that appeared to baffle the department's professional staff."


WOW

Wow is right.

It is absolutely shocking that the board overseeing nuclear threats doesn't consider cyber security a remotely relevant qualification.  :D

LOL.....not that I have any "real" inside sources, but anecdotally what I have heard (from people with some third party inside info)  is that the reason she deleted the 33000 "personal" emails is there was some "pay to play" shenanigans involving the Clinton Foundation

I hope she had a proper cyber security expert then! That stuff isn't easy to remove all traces.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 10, 2016, 04:56:52 PM
Just so I'm clear- you are adamant that under no circumstances should someone without any national security experience be involved with leadership on National Security in the US?

Should be a pretty easy decision for you in the Presidential Election then, one former secretary of state vs racist misogynist reality tv star.

Oops....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2016, 05:37:46 PM
Donald Trump walks out on Muslim interviewer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQAuIZ3_W1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQAuIZ3_W1s)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2016, 05:51:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2016, 02:13:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 10, 2016, 03:14:01 AM
GMAC, some policy issues that you didn't agree with from the Democratic nominee?

Love to hear which ones.

You can't disagree with the Republican nominees policies, as they have yet to be shared with us, though admittedly they will be great, the best policies, world leading policies. And he knows policies, policies with the Chinese, the Russians. And he has run many businesses, so perfectly qualified to lead the united states out of the mess it's in.
her policies are the same as Obamas which is what worries me .
The democrats are going way to far to the left on a lot of issues and I don't think the country will be in a good place after 4/8 more years of these policies .

What policies need to change and in what way?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2016, 06:31:47 PM
Stew do NOT watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2016, 06:31:47 PM
Stew do NOT watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg)

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 10, 2016, 08:15:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2016, 06:31:47 PM
Stew do NOT watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg)
Obama's economics news is BS. Unemployment is far higher than 5%. Stew has more details. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 10, 2016, 08:18:12 PM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/69dba38c-2e5b-11e6-bf8d-26294ad519fc.html#ixzz4BCR5lljd
June 10, 2016 4:20 pm
For Trump, even American justice is for sale
Jacob Weisberg
Has Donald Trump finally gone too far? So many people have asserted this so often in the past, with so little ensuing decline in his popularity, that the claim would seem to lack any hope of plausibility.
Yet there is reason to believe that Mr Trump really has gone too far and that this time even he realises it.
Future historians may trace his demise to the 12-minute tirade he delivered at a campaign rally in San Diego. That happens to be where a class-action lawsuit by unhappy graduates of the now-defunct Trump University is being heard. Mr Trump accused Gonzalo Curiel, the judge presiding over the litigation, of being "a hater of Donald Trump", noting that the judge "happens to be, we believe, Mexican". Mr Trump went on to describe the case as a "scam", the federal court as a "rigged system", and Judge Curiel as "totally biased" and a "total disgrace". Challenged to explain himself later, Mr Trump responded, "I'm building a wall. It's an inherent conflict of interest."

The response inside the Republican party has resembled what happens when you turn the lights on in a kitchen infested with cockroaches. Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House of Representatives, who finally endorsed Mr Trump just after his San Diego diatribe, called the remarks "the textbook definition of a racist comment". Mark Kirk, the Republican senator from Illinois, withdrew his previous endorsement. Even Newt Gingrich, one of Mr Trump's most enthusiastic sycophants, called the remarks "inexcusable".
All of which raises the question: why are they finally noticing his blatant prejudice now? Mr Trump has made more obviously racist comments about Mexicans, describing them as rapists and drug dealers. He has mocked the disabled and called his female critics dogs and fat pigs. He has claimed that Barack Obama was born in Kenya and faked his birth certificate. Far from being his worst, his comments about Judge Curiel were merely typical.

But in another way Mr Trump did break new ground in challenging core American values and showing contempt for his fervent supporters. The most important ideal Mr Trump traduced in his diatribe was assimilation. Anger about illegal immigration is one thing. Denying that people born and raised in the US are fully fledged Americans is something else entirely. Mr Curiel's father worked in the steel mills of northern Indiana to put two sons through law school. A third son went to Vietnam, where Mr Trump avoided service. As a federal prosecutor, Mr Curiel had to live under armed protection, after he was threatened with assassination by a Tijuana drug cartel. His is the kind of story of patriotism and struggle with which Americans of every ethnicity identify.

A second national premise Mr Trump violated is respect for the rule of law. Politicians stray into treacherous territory when they insult the courts. To attribute legal outcomes one dislikes to political bias — or, as Mr Trump asserted, personal animus and corruption — corrodes trust in the judicial system. For him to make this kind of charge in a case that threatens him financially demonstrates the way in which he thinks American justice is for sale.
Of course, this assumption reflects Mr Trump's past success intimidating his enemies with lawsuits and using his wealth to cultivate friends in high places. Florida's attorney-general considered joining a separate, multi-state fraud suit against Trump University in 2013. She reportedly decided not to do so shortly after he sent a $25,000 contribution to her re-election campaign.

The third and final line Mr Trump has crossed is around financial predation. He has cast himself as a tribune for the economically vulnerable. But Trump University was a flimflam designed to separate the credulous from their borrowed cash. The gullible enrollees were in the mould of Mr Trump's supporters: displaced, desperate for assistance and too trusting of a flamboyant huckster they had seen on television. For prices as high as $35,000 for the "Gold Elite" programme, aspirants were told they could become wealthy real estate investors like Mr Trump. A businessman who launches a venture of this type clearly does not hold his customers in high regard.
This week Mr Trump issued a rambling statement claiming that his comments had been "misconstrued" and read an unusually subdued speech from a teleprompter after the primaries in New Jersey and California. But the suspicion grows that he is doing something other than running to win. Mr Trump's campaign operation remains an understaffed, underfunded, feuding mess. By appearing in San Diego, he was wasting time in a state where Latinos outnumber whites, and which he cannot possibly win. In the same spirit of futility, he has laid the groundwork to contest New York, which has not gone to a Republican since Ronald Reagan.
Nothing he is doing makes any sense for his party. The buyer's remorse that afflicts enrollees in Trump University is now infecting his more prominent Republican apologists. They know they were gulled and want their money back
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2016, 08:28:26 PM
DOUBLE WOW

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/10/how_clinton_donor_rajiv_fernando_got_a_job_as_a_nuclear_expert_he_wasn_t.html#

" The rest of the International Security Advisory Board was filled with nuclear scientists, past cabinet secretaries, and former members of Congress. But the only thing Fernando had to offer the group was, in ABC's words, "his technological know-how," which none of his fellow panelists seemed to find all that helpful. Fernando was so out of place, in fact, that one board member told ABC that none of his colleagues could figure out why he was even there."


This is absolutely mind boggling

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2016, 08:38:22 PM
She'll, justifiably, get criticism for this, unless they do manage to come up some rationalization or reason.

But, its hardly news. Political patronage and jobs for the boys is as old as the hills in American politics. Did anyone ever suggest that the appointment of Michael "heckuva job Brownie" Brown to be head of FEMA was illegal, as opposed to the worst example of political cronyism? Trump can hardly complain as he has explicitly said he himself has bought off politicians all over the place in return for access and favours, not least in NJ. So long as governors and presidents and so on are allowed to fill political positions with whomever they want, this type of thing will occur. It stinks, but just what do people think all these massive donors, especially in the aftermath of Citizen's United, are looking for? They're not in it out of altruism. Favourable regs, ambassadorships, administration jobs etc. etc.

I used to work for a regional agency in the NYC area. It was amazing the jobs (not all high paying or high powered) you would find people in purely because of their connection to a mayor or governor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2016, 08:58:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2016, 08:38:22 PM
She'll, justifiably, get criticism for this, unless they do manage to come up some rationalization or reason.

But, its hardly news. Political patronage and jobs for the boys is as old as the hills in American politics. Did anyone ever suggest that the appointment of Michael "heckuva job Brownie" Brown to be head of FEMA was illegal, as opposed to the worst example of political cronyism? Trump can hardly complain as he has explicitly said he himself has bought off politicians all over the place in return for access and favours, not least in NJ. So long as governors and presidents and so on are allowed to fill political positions with whomever they want, this type of thing will occur. It stinks, but just what do people think all these massive donors, especially in the aftermath of Citizen's United, are looking for? They're not in it out of altruism. Favourable regs, ambassadorships, administration jobs etc. etc.

I used to work for a regional agency in the NYC area. It was amazing the jobs (not all high paying or high powered) you would find people in purely because of their connection to a mayor or governor.


Yeah, but if there's a direct line between his fundraising/donations and getting offered this position this could be a major issue.

And we all know people who get "made up" jobs but this one required major security clearances....it wasn't some bs committee to help advance gender equality.

And the fact he resigned within days once it was brought to light shows he should never have been there to begin with


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2016, 09:06:27 PM
Hillary would make boss tweed look like teddy Roosevelt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2016, 09:08:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2016, 08:58:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2016, 08:38:22 PM
She'll, justifiably, get criticism for this, unless they do manage to come up some rationalization or reason.

But, its hardly news. Political patronage and jobs for the boys is as old as the hills in American politics. Did anyone ever suggest that the appointment of Michael "heckuva job Brownie" Brown to be head of FEMA was illegal, as opposed to the worst example of political cronyism? Trump can hardly complain as he has explicitly said he himself has bought off politicians all over the place in return for access and favours, not least in NJ. So long as governors and presidents and so on are allowed to fill political positions with whomever they want, this type of thing will occur. It stinks, but just what do people think all these massive donors, especially in the aftermath of Citizen's United, are looking for? They're not in it out of altruism. Favourable regs, ambassadorships, administration jobs etc. etc.

I used to work for a regional agency in the NYC area. It was amazing the jobs (not all high paying or high powered) you would find people in purely because of their connection to a mayor or governor.


Yeah, but if there's a direct line between his fundraising/donations and getting offered this position this could be a major issue.

And we all know people who get "made up" jobs but this one required major security clearances....it wasn't some bs committee to help advance gender equality.

And the fact he resigned within days once it was brought to light shows he should never have been there to begin with

I will be shocked if a direct line is found! We are not talking some innocent, naive person new to the game here. ;D

Regardless, I can't see something like this being pushed too hard by the GOP. While the security issue is obviously a concern, they probably don't want to give up the jobs for the boys any more than the Democrats. This would definitely shine a light on that too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2016, 09:08:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2016, 09:06:27 PM
Hillary would make boss tweed look like teddy Roosevelt

Based on...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2016, 09:11:17 PM
If they recover the 33000 "personal" emails there could be some fireworks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 10, 2016, 11:33:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2016, 08:28:26 PM
DOUBLE WOW

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/10/how_clinton_donor_rajiv_fernando_got_a_job_as_a_nuclear_expert_he_wasn_t.html#

" The rest of the International Security Advisory Board was filled with nuclear scientists, past cabinet secretaries, and former members of Congress. But the only thing Fernando had to offer the group was, in ABC's words, "his technological know-how," which none of his fellow panelists seemed to find all that helpful. Fernando was so out of place, in fact, that one board member told ABC that none of his colleagues could figure out why he was even there."


This is absolutely mind boggling

Did you happen to read the last paragraph?
QuoteStill, it's yet one more example of why Clinton is so fortunate that she's set to face off against Donald Trump in the general. She and her allies want to make November a referendum about him, which is understandable given he's a race-baiting demagogue who poses a unique danger to the world. But doing that will also conveniently allow her to skirt legitimate questions about what her past time in office suggests about the type of president she might be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 11, 2016, 05:48:55 AM
Removing posts now Whitey?

Interesting

Alabama politics today took a massive body blow with the first convictions and the prospect of many more  to come

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/11/us/michael-hubbard-alabama-house-speaker-is-convicted-of-12-felony-ethics-charges.html

In addition to those case
QuoteThe chief justice of the State Supreme Court, Roy S. Moore, could be removed from office this year because of his efforts to resist same-sex marriage, and Mr. Bentley is a subject of impeachment proceedings over an improper relationship with an aide, as well as federal and state inquiries

Hardly shocking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 11, 2016, 02:10:49 PM
The Drumpf blueprint for making America great.

Starting in New Jersey, Atlantic city:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/nyregion/donald-trump-atlantic-city.html

Or How Donald Trump Bankrupted His Atlantic City Casinos, but Still Earned Millions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 13, 2016, 11:54:21 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 11, 2016, 02:10:49 PM
The Drumpf blueprint for making America great.

Starting in New Jersey, Atlantic city:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/nyregion/donald-trump-atlantic-city.html

Or How Donald Trump Bankrupted His Atlantic City Casinos, but Still Earned Millions

What have you to say about Clinton's past, compared to that  Trump is a choirboy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 13, 2016, 12:21:30 PM
I watched a few Trump videos. Jesus, he is some narcissist. I can't see many women voting for him. His attacks on the judge will alienate many Latinos.  White people over 35 represent less than 20% of Americans.  The GOP is in serious trouble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 13, 2016, 02:52:40 PM
Trump's GOP Primary win as mad as it was is not an indication of how the country will vote... given the fact that Obama won the Whitehouse by smashing up Romney with the women & ethnic vote it has to be said that Trump's chances of winning the Whitehouse are quite remote.

It would be some kind of miraculous turnaround for it to come to pass!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 13, 2016, 03:02:08 PM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21h21 hours ago
Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don't want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  17h17 hours ago
What has happened in Orlando is just the beginning. Our leadership is weak and ineffective. I called it and asked for the ban. Must be tough

The killer was born in New York. Trump's ban wouldn't have done a thing to protect anyone. Just a few simple words can refute his boasts. But yet his crass attempt at the exploitation of the deaths of 50 Americans will be seen as a good thing by his supporters.

Besides being the ultimate narcissist he is extremely dangerous. I don't know if he is actually as ignorant on the issues as he pretends to be, but looking at Facebook and Twitter there seems to be no end of people unable to think for themselves following him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 13, 2016, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: stew on June 13, 2016, 11:54:21 AM

What have you to say about Clinton's past, compared to that  Trump is a choirboy.
Stew,
Which part of the Clinton history do you wish to discuss?

T

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 13, 2016, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 13, 2016, 03:02:08 PM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21h21 hours ago
Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don't want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  17h17 hours ago
What has happened in Orlando is just the beginning. Our leadership is weak and ineffective. I called it and asked for the ban. Must be tough

The killer was born in New York. Trump's ban wouldn't have done a thing to protect anyone. Just a few simple words can refute his boasts. But yet his crass attempt at the exploitation of the deaths of 50 Americans will be seen as a good thing by his supporters.

Besides being the ultimate narcissist he is extremely dangerous. I don't know if he is actually as ignorant on the issues as he pretends to be, but looking at Facebook and Twitter there seems to be no end of people unable to think for themselves following him.
Adlai Stevenson was told he'd have the thinking people of the US on his side v Eisenhower "Yes, but I need a majority"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 13, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 13, 2016, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: stew on June 13, 2016, 11:54:21 AM

What have you to say about Clinton's past, compared to that  Trump is a choirboy.
Stew,
Which part of the Clinton history do you wish to discuss?

T

Well, at least Trump had no one (that we know of) murdered!  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on June 13, 2016, 03:26:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 13, 2016, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: stew on June 13, 2016, 11:54:21 AM

What have you to say about Clinton's past, compared to that  Trump is a choirboy.
Stew,
Which part of the Clinton history do you wish to discuss?

T

Well, at least Trump had no one (that we know of) murdered!  ::)

Yet!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on June 13, 2016, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 13, 2016, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: stew on June 13, 2016, 11:54:21 AM

What have you to say about Clinton's past, compared to that  Trump is a choirboy.
Stew,
Which part of the Clinton history do you wish to discuss?

T

Well, at least Trump had no one (that we know of) murdered!  ::)

Who did Hilary have murdered? I must have missed this on the news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 13, 2016, 03:52:45 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 13, 2016, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 13, 2016, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: stew on June 13, 2016, 11:54:21 AM

What have you to say about Clinton's past, compared to that  Trump is a choirboy.
Stew,
Which part of the Clinton history do you wish to discuss?

T

Well, at least Trump had no one (that we know of) murdered!  ::)

Who did Hilary have murdered? I must have missed this on the news

Ah jaysus don't be opening that can of worms again . . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 13, 2016, 03:54:17 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 13, 2016, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 13, 2016, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: stew on June 13, 2016, 11:54:21 AM

What have you to say about Clinton's past, compared to that  Trump is a choirboy.
Stew,
Which part of the Clinton history do you wish to discuss?

T

Well, at least Trump had no one (that we know of) murdered!  ::)

Who did Hilary have murdered? I must have missed this on the news

You obviously don't read the right wing conspiracy loon websites.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on June 13, 2016, 04:10:05 PM
Quote from: dec on June 13, 2016, 03:54:17 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 13, 2016, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 13, 2016, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: stew on June 13, 2016, 11:54:21 AM

What have you to say about Clinton's past, compared to that  Trump is a choirboy.
Stew,
Which part of the Clinton history do you wish to discuss?

T

Well, at least Trump had no one (that we know of) murdered!  ::)

Who did Hilary have murdered? I must have missed this on the news

You obviously don't read the right wing conspiracy loon websites.

Yeah for two very good reasons - right wing and conspiracy

Crazy what some people will actually believe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 13, 2016, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 13, 2016, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 13, 2016, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: stew on June 13, 2016, 11:54:21 AM

What have you to say about Clinton's past, compared to that  Trump is a choirboy.
Stew,
Which part of the Clinton history do you wish to discuss?

T

Well, at least Trump had no one (that we know of) murdered!  ::)

Who did Hilary have murdered? I must have missed this on the news

You haven't heard of Vince Foster?!

Don't worry, you will! Trump has already said it was all very suspect. Stew has brought in up a few times here too. It's probably why he calls her "Killery"!

Just one of many cloak and dagger conspiracy theories which will be rejuvenated by Trump to stir up a bit of anger and resentment among the knuckle-dragging element of the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 13, 2016, 06:36:00 PM
How many investigations do you want?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on June 13, 2016, 11:25:47 PM
Well, the yuge orang-utan has apparently rescinded the Washington Post's press credentials, a further sign that he is a threat to free speech.  I am so disheartened by the droves of followers his neo-Fascist stance attracts, and by his words following the Orlando massacre.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on June 13, 2016, 11:28:41 PM
Similarities with the late Herr Hitler are worrying
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 10:35:15 AM
Elizabeth Drew is one of the best
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/06/09/trump-hidden-psychology-election-crisis/

It's by now clear that the presidential election of 2016 is something larger than and apart from just another quadrennial contest for the highest office; it's a national crisis. The crisis will last as long as there's a possibility that someone totally unsuited for that office could win it.

It should have been in the case of Richard Nixon, but before he ran for president again in 1968 (having lost in 1960, and also having been defeated for governor of California in 1962) he managed to convince various journalists that there was a "new Nixon." It was only much later—too late—that we could see that Nixon's psycho-political flaws went very deep; that the combination of his resentments and unscrupulousness, not to mention his attraction to the bottle, would take this country into alarming international and domestic crises. The problem with Nixon was that what he'd shown the public was only the surface of deeper issues—to the point of such abuse of power that this country's constitutional system was at stake. The outcome was less certain than it seems in retrospect.
A big difference between Nixon and Trump is that Trump's flaws—his impulsiveness, his ignorance, his lack of understanding of the important effects of what he says—are right out there before us while Nixon kept his hidden until we discovered them on the White House tapes. Thus, after months of encouraging violence in his rallies, when violence occurs outside of them, even if caused by his opponents, Trump can't see that he has any responsibility for it. Much of Trump's behavior is like that of the schoolyard boy who feels he must punch back when he's been criticized. His cruel mocking of a reporter's disability wasn't something a grownup does. Trump doesn't have mature relationships with women: he views them as objects. His marriages are those of someone who needs a beauty on his arm in a display of his virility rather than an equal partner who can challenge him. (Compare his choice of wives with those of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.) 

I've talked with medical people, including psychiatrists, about Trump. They all use a somewhat different term: that Trump has a "narcissistic personality disorder," which is a problem several degrees greater than mere narcissism. As opposed to being simply self-centered and pleased with himself, the person with the narcissistic personality disorder has an outsized need for approval, and can become seriously upset if he doesn't get his way. This person, the medical experts tell me, tends to be very immature and has a great compulsion to hit back.

Trump just doesn't appear to have become a fully-formed adult. He is unable to deal in nuance or seem to understand how much of life, and certainly governing, involves compromise. He wants his way and when he doesn't get it the result is a temper tantrum of some sort. The Freudians would say that Trump is all id, the id that's never been brought to heel. Among Trump's other worrisome traits is that he shows no inclination to have a rational discussion of differences; that if someone disagrees with him publicly he attacks. How can such a person deal with Congress, not to mention foreign countries

Trump's verbal assaults on Judge Gonzalo P. Curiel, whom he charged was unable to give him a fair trial because he's "of Mexican heritage" (though the judge was born and raised in Indiana to Mexican parents) and, as Trump repeatedly explained, as if he had to, "I'm going to build a wall," sent the Republican leaders and many of their troops into panic mode.
While Mitt Romney won only 27 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2012, recent polls showed Trump winning just 10 or 12 percent.
Paul Ryan was the most pathetic case of a a Republican politician trying to maintain a moral position in regard to Trump's racist assault on the judge, and failing. After the House speaker became the lone holdout among Republican leaders from supporting Trump, he wrote an op-ed in his local Wisconsin newspaper on June 2 saying he'll vote for him.

It took the direct Lindsey Graham, who'd already made it clear that he didn't find Trump a tolerable nominee, to put it to his party colleagues for rationalizing their continuing support for Trump: he called Trump's comments about Judge Curiel "the most un-American thing from a politician since Joseph McCarthy." Graham urged Republicans to abandon Trump: "If anybody was looking for an off-ramp, this is probably it," Graham said, adding, "There'll come a time when the love of country will trump hatred of Hillary."
The Bush family's turning their back on Trump could be less a matter of principle than of lingering anger for things Trump said about them during the campaign—blaming George W. Bush for allowing the September 11 attacks to happen and assailing the invasion of Iraq, while describing Jeb as "low energy"; the Bushes are world-class resenters.

The real test is whether there are any circumstances under which Republican leaders in Congress will finally stand up to Trump, renounce him as their party's standard bearer even if they can't cancel his nomination. This could mean risking that their party loses the election and their majorities in the House and the Senate. This is a length to which the congressional leaders Ryan, Mitch McConnell, and some others who've endorsed Trump or waffled—not opposing but not endorsing—have thus far been unwilling to go.
Clinton's aides settled on the following lines of attack on Trump: "He is a business fraud who has cheated working people for his own gain, and his ideas, temperament and moves to marginalize people by race, gender and creed make him simply unacceptable as commander in chief."




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 10:41:47 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 13, 2016, 11:25:47 PM
Well, the yuge orang-utan has apparently rescinded the Washington Post's press credentials, a further sign that he is a threat to free speech.  I am so disheartened by the droves of followers his neo-Fascist stance attracts, and by his words following the Orlando massacre.
Trump is an asshole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 14, 2016, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 13, 2016, 11:25:47 PM
Well, the yuge orang-utan has apparently rescinded the Washington Post's press credentials, a further sign that he is a threat to free speech.  I am so disheartened by the droves of followers his neo-Fascist stance attracts, and by his words following the Orlando massacre.

Free speech my hole, the snotrag flat out lied linking remarks made by Trump tying the prez to the e Orlando shootings.

Did you like the eight seconds of dead air Couric. Added to a question about gun control, your media is repugnant Orals and you are being hypocritical here, free speech is dead in the states and this administration has helped kill it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on June 14, 2016, 04:16:52 PM
No, Stew, free speech is not dead, but it is alarming to see Donald Trump attempt to gag anyone who seeks to question him about his long history of fraud and deceit or who writes about his dishonesty and hypocrisy. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 14, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
Quote from: stew on June 14, 2016, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 13, 2016, 11:25:47 PM
Well, the yuge orang-utan has apparently rescinded the Washington Post's press credentials, a further sign that he is a threat to free speech.  I am so disheartened by the droves of followers his neo-Fascist stance attracts, and by his words following the Orlando massacre.

Free speech my hole, the snotrag flat out lied linking remarks made by Trump tying the prez to the e Orlando shootings.

Did you like the eight seconds of dead air Couric. Added to a question about gun control, your media is repugnant Orals and you are being hypocritical here, free speech is dead in the states and this administration has helped kill it.

What the f**k are we supposed to infer from the following:

Quote"Look, we're led by a man that either is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind," Trump said in a lengthy interview on Fox News early Monday morning. "And the something else in mind — you know, people can't believe it. People cannot, they cannot believe that President Obama is acting the way he acts and can't even mention the words 'radical Islamic terrorism.' There's something going on. It's inconceivable. There's something going on."

He's quite clearly implying the President is someway complicit in the whole thing. In any case why is it OK for Trump to tell lies ALL THE TIME and get away with it and when a paper infers something quite blatant but not concrete they are suddenly the bad guys??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2016, 04:41:46 PM
Don't worry - Trump, as always, was just vague enough to give someone like stew (who can't stand him, remember), enough wiggle room to support his subsequent denial or " clarification".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: stew on June 14, 2016, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 13, 2016, 11:25:47 PM
Well, the yuge orang-utan has apparently rescinded the Washington Post's press credentials, a further sign that he is a threat to free speech.  I am so disheartened by the droves of followers his neo-Fascist stance attracts, and by his words following the Orlando massacre.

Free speech my hole, the snotrag flat out lied linking remarks made by Trump tying the prez to the e Orlando shootings.

Did you like the eight seconds of dead air Couric. Added to a question about gun control, your media is repugnant Orals and you are being hypocritical here, free speech is dead in the states and this administration has helped kill it.

How has this administration "killed" free speech?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 14, 2016, 06:00:57 PM
Fishing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 14, 2016, 09:07:49 PM
in some actual good news from the US today- a court in DC ruled in favor of net neutrality.
The FCC in the US is now expected to go ahead with implementing the new privacy rules on the broadband providers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 09:11:03 PM
Wow surprised that it went that way.

Dont bet on it lasting tho Congress will likely pass a law giving it away again after they get wined dined and holidayed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 19, 2016, 04:22:01 PM
And in some more good news:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/19/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-election-race-obama-surrogate

And also

http://wapo.st/2009qZI

It turns out that the way you win a nomination is very very very different from how you win an election. Currently trump running for president is likely to cause 2 very significant outcomes for US politics;
1. Democratic control of the Senate and Congress, with a Democrat for president, which would lead to supreme  Court legacy as well as significant immediate changes in US policy

2. A split in the Republican party which could take 10 years to fix, even with Koch brothers money, and that will be to a 10 year younger voting population, which is currently moving more and more socialist by the year.

Interesting times ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 19, 2016, 08:56:35 PM
It could be that the Repubs have hit their post-Thatcher moment. That's them out for a generation. Just when you think they can't sink any lower, Trump opens his mouth again and proves you wrong. And with the gun nuts picking a powerful enemy in the LGBT community, I'd say a repeal of the Second Amendment would not be out of the question in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on June 19, 2016, 10:36:41 PM
Eamonn, I think the Second Amendment is rock solid safe, as much as I would like to see it go.  After all, it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 Commandments.  Would be happy to see stricter background checks, the end of guns being sold out of car boots, and more robust laws regarding semi-automatic weapons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 20, 2016, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 19, 2016, 08:56:35 PM
It could be that the Repubs have hit their post-Thatcher moment. That's them out for a generation. Just when you think they can't sink any lower, Trump opens his mouth again and proves you wrong. And with the gun nuts picking a powerful enemy in the LGBT community, I'd say a repeal of the Second Amendment would not be out of the question in the foreseeable future.


Trump is NOT a republican for facks sake!

You have no room talking about low when the scum of the earth is running for those shitheads you want to see in power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 20, 2016, 01:17:10 PM
Trump may not be a conservative Stew, but he is certainly a Republican - in fact, he is the presumptive Republican nominee (I only use presumptive because it is looking like he is going to face a big problem at the convention) and a clear majority of Republican primary voters elected him.

It is getting less and less plausible for you to compare the moral worth of a flawed* but experienced career politician and the gibbering, racist id of a party that has slipped into a chasm of paranoia, denial and ugliness. It stopped being pleasant a long time ago.

(Hillary is flawed IMHO because of her foreign policy and her support for the Iraq war. However it should be emphasized, that no matter how much it is claimed by Republicans, she has never been found guilty of corruption, fraud, treason, murder or whatever the scandal du jour is - despite multiple investigations)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2016, 02:56:08 PM
Quote from: stew on June 20, 2016, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 19, 2016, 08:56:35 PM
It could be that the Repubs have hit their post-Thatcher moment. That's them out for a generation. Just when you think they can't sink any lower, Trump opens his mouth again and proves you wrong. And with the gun nuts picking a powerful enemy in the LGBT community, I'd say a repeal of the Second Amendment would not be out of the question in the foreseeable future.


Trump is NOT a republican for facks sake!

You have no room talking about low when the scum of the earth is running for those shitheads you want to see in power.

He's just the GOP nominee for POTUS.

But NOT a Republican.

None of the xenophobia, the racial/ religious profiling, the birther stuff, the misogyny, the anti- intellectualism, the anti- scientific views, the conspiracy theorism...

... none of that is characteristic of the Republican Party! In no way is he the logical conclusion to the road they've been on for years! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2016, 03:39:24 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 20, 2016, 01:17:10 PM
Trump may not be a conservative Stew, but he is certainly a Republican - in fact, he is the presumptive Republican nominee (I only use presumptive because it is looking like he is going to face a big problem at the convention) and a clear majority of Republican primary voters elected him.

It is getting less and less plausible for you to compare the moral worth of a flawed* but experienced career politician and the gibbering, racist id of a party that has slipped into a chasm of paranoia, denial and ugliness. It stopped being pleasant a long time ago.

(Hillary is flawed IMHO because of her foreign policy and her support for the Iraq war. However it should be emphasized, that no matter how much it is claimed by Republicans, she has never been found guilty of corruption, fraud, treason, murder or whatever the scandal du jour is - despite multiple investigations)

But that only further proves her deviousness and corruption. Of course she gets away with everything! Just like Obama REALLY IS a Kenyan- born communist, fascist, America-hating Muslim!  ;D

In all seriousness though, Hillary IS very flawed and entitled. The whole email thing is completely self-inflicted and could still derail her campaign or even be a big distraction for her presidency. It's maddening as f**k.

But... In no way is she as a candidate in any way comparable to the freak show that is Trump. One can be comfortable, whether you are for or against her, in that you know you will get a mainstream, pragmatic, liberal-leaning presidency. Nothing groundbreaking or seismic shifting or whatever other cliche you want to throw at it. Trump...??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 20, 2016, 08:58:48 PM
TBF to the Republican party it has been headed up by the neocons for years and has more or less on the whole persued the neocon political philosophy during that time, which is very clear what it is, wether you like it or not and it looks nothing like Trumpism.

Although they have let certain section of their party beat their own drum and walk their own path to an extent in the full knowledge that being associated with popluist nonsense would deliver them voters and power.

But now it has really come home home to roost for the neocons, all the things that that they allowed to float around for years but never really supported have been bundled up in a nice little crazy package that is Donald Trump, he really is their worst nightmare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2016, 09:05:26 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 20, 2016, 01:17:10 PM
Trump may not be a conservative Stew, but he is certainly a Republican - in fact, he is the presumptive Republican nominee (I only use presumptive because it is looking like he is going to face a big problem at the convention) and a clear majority of Republican primary voters elected him.

It is getting less and less plausible for you to compare the moral worth of a flawed* but experienced career politician and the gibbering, racist id of a party that has slipped into a chasm of paranoia, denial and ugliness. It stopped being pleasant a long time ago.

(Hillary is flawed IMHO because of her foreign policy and her support for the Iraq war. However it should be emphasized, that no matter how much it is claimed by Republicans, she has never been found guilty of corruption, fraud, treason, murder or whatever the scandal du jour is - despite multiple investigations)
He is not a Republican. He doesn't follow GOP doctrine. He is an outsider who beat the GOP field and he scares the bejaysus out of the GOP leadership who thought Jeb would run.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2016, 09:41:17 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 19, 2016, 04:22:01 PM
And in some more good news:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/19/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-election-race-obama-surrogate

And also

http://wapo.st/2009qZI

It turns out that the way you win a nomination is very very very different from how you win an election. Currently trump running for president is likely to cause 2 very significant outcomes for US politics;
1. Democratic control of the Senate and Congress, with a Democrat for president, which would lead to supreme  Court legacy as well as significant immediate changes in US policy

2. A split in the Republican party which could take 10 years to fix, even with Koch brothers money, and that will be to a 10 year younger voting population, which is currently moving more and more socialist by the year.

Interesting times ahead.
younger people and minorities get nothing from the status quo so will not vote GOP.  Romney wrote a report on this after 2012. The GOP in its present form has no future.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2016, 12:21:41 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 20, 2016, 08:58:48 PM
TBF to the Republican party it has been headed up by the neocons for years and has more or less on the whole persued the neocon political philosophy during that time, which is very clear what it is, wether you like it or not and it looks nothing like Trumpism.

Although they have let certain section of their party beat their own drum and walk their own path to an extent in the full knowledge that being associated with popluist nonsense would deliver them voters and power.

But now it has really come home home to roost for the neocons, all the things that that they allowed to float around for years but never really supported have been bundled up in a nice little crazy package that is Donald Trump, he really is their worst nightmare.

They may have paid these people lip service in actual legislative practice, but they fomented and exploited the unrest for years to get the vote out. Prime example being gay marriage in 2004. Yes, Trump may be anti-free trade, but almost everything else he espouses has been standard, white conservative resentment fodder for a long time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2016, 12:24:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2016, 09:05:26 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 20, 2016, 01:17:10 PM
Trump may not be a conservative Stew, but he is certainly a Republican - in fact, he is the presumptive Republican nominee (I only use presumptive because it is looking like he is going to face a big problem at the convention) and a clear majority of Republican primary voters elected him.

It is getting less and less plausible for you to compare the moral worth of a flawed* but experienced career politician and the gibbering, racist id of a party that has slipped into a chasm of paranoia, denial and ugliness. It stopped being pleasant a long time ago.

(Hillary is flawed IMHO because of her foreign policy and her support for the Iraq war. However it should be emphasized, that no matter how much it is claimed by Republicans, she has never been found guilty of corruption, fraud, treason, murder or whatever the scandal du jour is - despite multiple investigations)
He is not a Republican. He doesn't follow GOP doctrine. He is an outsider who beat the GOP field and he scares the bejaysus out of the GOP leadership who thought Jeb would run.

He is not a mainstream establishment fiscal Republican (on trade at least), but his rhetoric is very much part and parcel of the paranoid, conspiratorial, resentment wing of the party i.e. their talk radio enthusiast primary base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 21, 2016, 04:07:37 AM
Shocking news: Senate rejects 4 gun control bills today

Political news. Last month Donald Drumpf raised a grand total of 3.1 million dollars and has 1.3M cash in hand.  Clinton raised 42m.

Comedy news: of that 1.3M, the Donald  paid himself 420 grand last month by renting his own house to the campaign....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 05:59:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2016, 12:24:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2016, 09:05:26 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 20, 2016, 01:17:10 PM
Trump may not be a conservative Stew, but he is certainly a Republican - in fact, he is the presumptive Republican nominee (I only use presumptive because it is looking like he is going to face a big problem at the convention) and a clear majority of Republican primary voters elected him.

It is getting less and less plausible for you to compare the moral worth of a flawed* but experienced career politician and the gibbering, racist id of a party that has slipped into a chasm of paranoia, denial and ugliness. It stopped being pleasant a long time ago.

(Hillary is flawed IMHO because of her foreign policy and her support for the Iraq war. However it should be emphasized, that no matter how much it is claimed by Republicans, she has never been found guilty of corruption, fraud, treason, murder or whatever the scandal du jour is - despite multiple investigations)
He is not a Republican. He doesn't follow GOP doctrine. He is an outsider who beat the GOP field and he scares the bejaysus out of the GOP leadership who thought Jeb would run.

He is not a mainstream establishment fiscal Republican (on trade at least), but his rhetoric is very much part and parcel of the paranoid, conspiratorial, resentment wing of the party i.e. their talk radio enthusiast primary base.
He is not doctrinal on fiscal or culture issues. He doesn't have a problem with trans bathrooms or gay marriage. He is a maverick and a demagogue straight out of the 30s. The GOP doesn't know what to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on June 21, 2016, 07:55:52 AM
This could just as easilty go into the wtf section.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36582770
He 'was planning to kill Trump for a year' but only went to a range yesterday to learn to shoot and then he tried to steal a gun at the rally.
I wonder what went into the other 364 days of planning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 21, 2016, 08:27:58 AM
I see two government whistleblowers are claiming Obama wanted the names of potential Muslim terrorists in the states who were being watched, this ballix is deliberately ducking up, why would that be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2016, 02:15:18 PM
Quote from: stew on June 21, 2016, 08:27:58 AM
I see two government whistleblowers are claiming Obama wanted the names of potential Muslim terrorists in the states who were being watched, this ballix is deliberately ducking up, why would that be.

"Ducking up"??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on June 21, 2016, 10:41:55 PM
Quote from: stew on June 21, 2016, 08:27:58 AM
I see two government whistleblowers are claiming Obama wanted the names of potential Muslim terrorists in the states who were being watched, this ballix is deliberately ducking up, why would that be.

I may be a bit slow but I can't decifer what you're trying to state or infer here stew?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 22, 2016, 12:48:45 AM
Obama wants to know their names so he can harbour them from getting caught.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 22, 2016, 01:02:05 AM
What's the thinking here, he will call them and invite them all to stay in the white house for sanctuary?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 22, 2016, 01:15:29 AM
Quote from: stew on June 21, 2016, 08:27:58 AM
I see two government whistleblowers are claiming Obama wanted the names of potential Muslim terrorists in the states who were being watched, this ballix is deliberately ducking up, why would that be.

Ducking idiot!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on June 22, 2016, 03:19:21 AM
   ""Obama wants to know their names so he can harbour them from getting caught.'''
Maybe he wants the names the way he can take them out himself ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2016, 04:38:55 AM
What the duck?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on June 22, 2016, 04:43:07 AM
Well someone gave him ""Bin Laden's  name"" and he ducked him in the sea  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 22, 2016, 09:49:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 22, 2016, 01:15:29 AM
Quote from: stew on June 21, 2016, 08:27:58 AM
I see two government whistleblowers are claiming Obama wanted the names of potential Muslim terrorists in the states who were being watched, this ballix is deliberately ducking up, why would that be.

Ducking idiot!

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a ducking duck!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on June 23, 2016, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on June 22, 2016, 04:43:07 AM
Well someone gave him ""Bin Laden's  name"" and he ducked him in the sea  ;)

Bin Laden died of kidney failure December 2002. If he really was assassinated the way we were told they would have produced the body for the world to see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 23, 2016, 01:17:29 AM
Rule 1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 23, 2016, 02:38:18 AM
Quote from: Seamus on June 23, 2016, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on June 22, 2016, 04:43:07 AM
Well someone gave him ""Bin Laden's  name"" and he ducked him in the sea  ;)

Bin Laden died of kidney failure December 2002. If he really was assassinated the way we were told they would have produced the body for the world to see.

Conspiracy loon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 23, 2016, 04:37:17 AM
the best bit is not just that he was already dead- but that it was specifically December '02.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 05:01:43 AM
Bin laden was a CIA asset thats an indisputable fact. He was the boogie man for the September 11th attacks which were carried out by mossad and traitors in the US government. September the 11th was a false flag attack.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: Seamus on June 23, 2016, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on June 22, 2016, 04:43:07 AM
Well someone gave him ""Bin Laden's  name"" and he ducked him in the sea  ;)

Bin Laden died of kidney failure December 2002. If he really was assassinated the way we were told they would have produced the body for the world to see.

Can you produce any evidence at all? Anything?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2016, 11:24:05 AM
Lads, leave it alone. You're entering the world of Infowars and tin foil hats. I doubt even Trump would touch that particular conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on June 23, 2016, 04:00:12 PM
''''Lads, leave it alone. You're entering the world of Infowars and tin foil hats. I doubt even Trump would touch that particular conspiracy theory.""
Don't ever underestimate  ""The Donald"""
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 08:28:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 11:24:05 AM
Lads, leave it alone. You're entering the world of Infowars and tin foil hats. I doubt even Trump would touch that particular conspiracy theory.

Ok then how do you explain the implosion of building 7 then? If you watch the video carefully you can see the squib detonations going off in each floor. It was a classic demolition.

Now bare in mind nothing hit building seven. Yes there was office fires but not enough to collapse the building. It was the first and only time in history a high rise was brought down with fire.

https://youtu.be/bWorDrTC0Qg


That day the BBC reported the collapse of building seven. One wee small problem though, the building was still standing at the time of the report. Here is the actual footage.

https://youtu.be/ltP2t9nq9fI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 23, 2016, 08:43:34 PM
I have never been able to work out if the conspiracy nuts actually believe the bullshit they spout or whether they are just trolls.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2016, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 08:28:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 11:24:05 AM
Lads, leave it alone. You're entering the world of Infowars and tin foil hats. I doubt even Trump would touch that particular conspiracy theory.

Ok then how do you explain the implosion of building 7 then? If you watch the video carefully you can see the squib detonations going off in each floor. It was a classic demolition.

Now bare in mind nothing hit building seven. Yes there was office fires but not enough to collapse the building. It was the first and only time in history a high rise was brought down with fire.

https://youtu.be/bWorDrTC0Qg


That day the BBC reported the collapse of building seven. One wee small problem though, the building was still standing at the time of the report. Here is the actual footage.

https://youtu.be/ltP2t9nq9fI

Better get the news to Trump - his team will dig into it. You won't believe the unbelievable things they'll find! ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 23, 2016, 08:58:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 08:28:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 11:24:05 AM
Lads, leave it alone. You're entering the world of Infowars and tin foil hats. I doubt even Trump would touch that particular conspiracy theory.

Ok then how do you explain the implosion of building 7 then? If you watch the video carefully you can see the squib detonations going off in each floor. It was a classic demolition.

Now bare in mind nothing hit building seven. Yes there was office fires but not enough to collapse the building. It was the first and only time in history a high rise was brought down with fire.

https://youtu.be/bWorDrTC0Qg


That day the BBC reported the collapse of building seven. One wee small problem though, the building was still standing at the time of the report. Here is the actual footage.

https://youtu.be/ltP2t9nq9fI

Better get the news to Trump - his team will dig into it. You won't believe the unbelievable things they'll find! ;D



Problem is, he will.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 08:28:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 11:24:05 AM
Lads, leave it alone. You're entering the world of Infowars and tin foil hats. I doubt even Trump would touch that particular conspiracy theory.

Ok then how do you explain the implosion of building 7 then? If you watch the video carefully you can see the squib detonations going off in each floor. It was a classic demolition.

Now bare in mind nothing hit building seven. Yes there was office fires but not enough to collapse the building. It was the first and only time in history a high rise was brought down with fire.

https://youtu.be/bWorDrTC0Qg


That day the BBC reported the collapse of building seven. One wee small problem though, the building was still standing at the time of the report. Here is the actual footage.

https://youtu.be/ltP2t9nq9fI

Better get the news to Trump - his team will dig into it. You won't believe the unbelievable things they'll find! ;D

Did they ever find those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq which they lied about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 23, 2016, 09:45:39 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 08:28:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 11:24:05 AM
Lads, leave it alone. You're entering the world of Infowars and tin foil hats. I doubt even Trump would touch that particular conspiracy theory.

Ok then how do you explain the implosion of building 7 then? If you watch the video carefully you can see the squib detonations going off in each floor. It was a classic demolition.

Now bare in mind nothing hit building seven. Yes there was office fires but not enough to collapse the building. It was the first and only time in history a high rise was brought down with fire.

https://youtu.be/bWorDrTC0Qg


That day the BBC reported the collapse of building seven. One wee small problem though, the building was still standing at the time of the report. Here is the actual footage.

https://youtu.be/ltP2t9nq9fI

Better get the news to Trump - his team will dig into it. You won't believe the unbelievable things they'll find! ;D

Did they ever find those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq which they lied about?

Iraq's WMDs were hidden in WTC7, that's why it had to be destroyed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: dec on June 23, 2016, 08:43:34 PM
I have never been able to work out if the conspiracy nuts actually believe the bullshit they spout or whether they are just trolls.

Nor I Declan, however the official version of events by the government is simply not true. Too many ammonites, conflicting eye witness accounts. People who invested small amounts of money on the trade centre complex six weeks before the event only to gain billions in return for their investment. People like Larry Silverstein.

It dose not make since that an airplane filled with kerosene would bring down a sky scrapper designed to take multiple hits from planes and pulverize them into dust.

Also the fact that the buildings were riddled with asbestos and were going to have to be demolished eventually. Why would someone want to lease them when they were a health hazard? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 09:55:21 PM
https://youtu.be/CEsesnzDBvA

Listen to this stunning interview by William Cooper. He is the man that predicted September 11th. William was murdered two months after September 11th.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 23, 2016, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 09:50:32 PM
Too many ammonites,

Damn ammonites

(http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/ammonite_nautilus.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: dec on June 23, 2016, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 09:50:32 PM
Too many ammonites,

Damn ammonites

(http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/ammonite_nautilus.jpg)

(https://illuminutti.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/chemair-03_flat_300px.jpg?w=620)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:04:45 PM
Very good Declan I was using the automatic spell check. "Anomalies" But don't let it distract from the points I made.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2016, 10:09:09 PM
Quote from: dec on June 23, 2016, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 09:50:32 PM
Too many ammonites,

Damn ammonites

(http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/ammonite_nautilus.jpg)

Not to be a pedant, but that's a nautiloid, specifically a Nautilus.

Ammonites went out with the dinosaurs.  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:11:01 PM
Quote from: dec on June 23, 2016, 09:45:39 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 08:28:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2016, 11:24:05 AM
Lads, leave it alone. You're entering the world of Infowars and tin foil hats. I doubt even Trump would touch that particular conspiracy theory.

Ok then how do you explain the implosion of building 7 then? If you watch the video carefully you can see the squib detonations going off in each floor. It was a classic demolition.

Now bare in mind nothing hit building seven. Yes there was office fires but not enough to collapse the building. It was the first and only time in history a high rise was brought down with fire.

https://youtu.be/bWorDrTC0Qg


That day the BBC reported the collapse of building seven. One wee small problem though, the building was still standing at the time of the report. Here is the actual footage.

https://youtu.be/ltP2t9nq9fI

Better get the news to Trump - his team will dig into it. You won't believe the unbelievable things they'll find! ;D

Did they ever find those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq which they lied about?

Iraq's WMDs were hidden in WTC7, that's why it had to be destroyed.

Thats an absurd insinuation Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with the events of September 11th. I told you already mossad planted the explosives that brought down the buildings that day. Why not attack Israel?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 23, 2016, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:04:45 PM
Very good Declan I was using the automatic spell check. "Anomalies" But don't let it distract from the points I made.

Oh I wasn't distracted at all.

It's just as nonsensical whether you meant to say anomalies or ammonites.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 23, 2016, 10:18:21 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:11:01 PM
I told you already mossad planted the explosives that brought down the buildings that day.

And Mossad also placed Iraq's WMDs in WTC7, that's why they demolished WTC7, to destroy the evidence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 23, 2016, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.

But what if the dots are inside the box? Thinking outside the box isn't going to help you then, is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 11:49:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 23, 2016, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.

But what if the dots are inside the box? Thinking outside the box isn't going to help you then, is it?

Where is you're evidence Iraq had anything to do with the events of September 11th 2001?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 24, 2016, 12:29:52 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 11:49:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 23, 2016, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.

But what if the dots are inside the box? Thinking outside the box isn't going to help you then, is it?

Where is you're evidence Iraq had anything to do with the events of September 11th 2001?

What makes you think I have any evidence of Iraq's involvement in 9/11?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2016, 12:37:08 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 11:49:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 23, 2016, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.

But what if the dots are inside the box? Thinking outside the box isn't going to help you then, is it?

Where is you're evidence Iraq had anything to do with the events of September 11th 2001?

It's OK lads he's in bad form after Derry beat his lads last week. . . You'll be alright Jim!

(http://www.newstalk.com/content/000/images/000007/7366_54_news_hub_7034_656x500.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 24, 2016, 12:48:58 AM
Quote from: dec on June 24, 2016, 12:29:52 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 11:49:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 23, 2016, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.

But what if the dots are inside the box? Thinking outside the box isn't going to help you then, is it?

Where is you're evidence Iraq had anything to do with the events of September 11th 2001?

What makes you think I have any evidence of Iraq's involvement in 9/11?

"And Mossad also placed Iraq's WMDs in WTC7, that's why they demolished WTC7, to destroy the evidence."

You're own words?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 24, 2016, 12:53:26 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 24, 2016, 12:48:58 AM
Quote from: dec on June 24, 2016, 12:29:52 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 11:49:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 23, 2016, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.

But what if the dots are inside the box? Thinking outside the box isn't going to help you then, is it?

Where is you're evidence Iraq had anything to do with the events of September 11th 2001?

What makes you think I have any evidence of Iraq's involvement in 9/11?

"And Mossad also placed Iraq's WMDs in WTC7, that's why they demolished WTC7, to destroy the evidence."

You're own words?

Mossad is from Israel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 24, 2016, 12:55:59 AM
You're being contrary for the sake of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2016, 01:17:49 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 24, 2016, 12:55:59 AM
You're being contrary for the sake of it.

You're being a lunatic head case for the sake of it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 24, 2016, 01:38:03 AM
Thanks.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/new-american-century/

You watch and you decide.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on June 24, 2016, 10:59:25 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.

Or you could just come out with the usual banal cliches  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:34:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: Seamus on June 23, 2016, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on June 22, 2016, 04:43:07 AM
Well someone gave him ""Bin Laden's  name"" and he ducked him in the sea  ;)

Bin Laden died of kidney failure December 2002. If he really was assassinated the way we were told they would have produced the body for the world to see.

Can you produce any evidence at all? Anything?

What were I thinking, if it was not on the six o'clock news nor in da papers it can't be true. Sure didn't we see a pic of Obama and Hillary etc.. in the White House watching a live feed direct from a Navy Seal's helmet cam and how smug they all looked.  Twenty of America's best could never be a match for "The Most Dangerous Man in the World", no way they could have taken him alive.

I feel much safer now that I'm back in my little box, what were I thinking at all at all?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:39:01 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 23, 2016, 04:37:17 AM
the best bit is not just that he was already dead- but that it was specifically December '02.

and your date is specifically what Obama told the world, is that so?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:40:38 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 23, 2016, 01:17:29 AM
Rule 1

Have a look in the mirrow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 24, 2016, 10:59:25 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.

Or you could just come out with the usual banal cliches  ::)

Then we get the conditioned dishing out phrases such as  "conspiracy theorist", "conspiracy loon", "conspiracy nut" and the mentioning of "tin foil hats etc". I find those people to be the most clueless of the lot.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on June 29, 2016, 08:35:49 PM
Quote from: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:34:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: Seamus on June 23, 2016, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on June 22, 2016, 04:43:07 AM
Well someone gave him ""Bin Laden's  name"" and he ducked him in the sea  ;)

Bin Laden died of kidney failure December 2002. If he really was assassinated the way we were told they would have produced the body for the world to see.

Can you produce any evidence at all? Anything?

What were I thinking, if it was not on the six o'clock news nor in da papers it can't be true. Sure didn't we see a pic of Obama and Hillary etc.. in the White House watching a live feed direct from a Navy Seal's helmet cam and how smug they all looked.  Twenty of America's best could never be a match for "The Most Dangerous Man in the World", no way they could have taken him alive.

I feel much safer now that I'm back in my little box, what were I thinking at all at all?

That's a 'no' then.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2016, 06:42:35 AM
Quote from: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:47:31 PM
Then we get the conditioned dishing out phrases such as  "conspiracy theorist", "conspiracy loon", "conspiracy nut" and the mentioning of "tin foil hats etc".

I prefer "tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorist loon." It covers everything in one shot.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on June 30, 2016, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2016, 06:42:35 AM
Quote from: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:47:31 PM
Then we get the conditioned dishing out phrases such as  "conspiracy theorist", "conspiracy loon", "conspiracy nut" and the mentioning of "tin foil hats etc".

I prefer "tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorist loon." It covers everything in one shot.

One thing about them there Zionists, they must have a great work ethic with all that plotting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on June 30, 2016, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 24, 2016, 10:59:25 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 23, 2016, 10:15:32 PM
You can tell people things but you can't make them understand it. If you started to think outside the box and start joining the dots you would see things differently but hey each to their own.

Or you could just come out with the usual banal cliches  ::)

Then we get the conditioned dishing out phrases such as  "conspiracy theorist", "conspiracy loon", "conspiracy nut" and the mentioning of "tin foil hats etc". I find those people to be the most clueless of the lot.

Here you trotted out a load of cliches, at least 4 by my count, masquerading as a sentence, and expect that it's going to be treated as a serious argument.

The phrases you have mentioned are used when people advance theories and speculation without the slightest shred of evidence, as you have done. Even when asked you failed to produce ANY evidence whatsoever. Sure I could say there are fairies at the bottom of my garden, but not too many people are going to believe me unless they see some proof of this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 30, 2016, 04:01:02 PM
Quote from: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:39:01 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 23, 2016, 04:37:17 AM
the best bit is not just that he was already dead- but that it was specifically December '02.

and your date is specifically what Obama told the world, is that so?

All right Seamus- lets have a quick look at your theory. Why do you think that Osama Bin Laden died in December 2002?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 30, 2016, 08:14:19 PM
Meanwhile, back in the real world, Bill Clinton and AG Lynch show appallingly bad judgement in holding a meeting on her plane while the FBI's investigation of the emails is still not completed.

At a time when Trump is continuously showing that he doesn't have the temperament or seriousness to be president and the "latest" Benghazi investigation ends in yet another damp squib for the Hillary haters, it's an incredibly stupid and brainless act of self sabotage. Even if the emails were not discussed, couldn't ANYONE on their respective staffs see what a stupid idea such a meeting was?

Maybe she feels some need to keep the race close?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 03, 2016, 10:15:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 29, 2016, 08:35:49 PM
Quote from: Seamus on June 29, 2016, 07:34:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: Seamus on June 23, 2016, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on June 22, 2016, 04:43:07 AM
Well someone gave him ""Bin Laden's  name"" and he ducked him in the sea  ;)

Bin Laden died of kidney failure December 2002. If he really was assassinated the way we were told they would have produced the body for the world to see.

Can you produce any evidence at all? Anything?

What were I thinking, if it was not on the six o'clock news nor in da papers it can't be true. Sure didn't we see a pic of Obama and Hillary etc.. in the White House watching a live feed direct from a Navy Seal's helmet cam and how smug they all looked.  Twenty of America's best could never be a match for "The Most Dangerous Man in the World", no way they could have taken him alive.

I feel much safer now that I'm back in my little box, what were I thinking at all at all?

That's a 'no' then.

I'm fully aware of the mindset of the responders here so I have no intention of spoon feeding you. You need to learn how to think for yourself and stop believing every official fairy tale. Several organizations filed FOIA requests regarding the official story of the death of Bin Laden, seeking any physical evidence to support the theory. To date none is forthcoming and never will because there ain't any. Keep believing the big lie for all I care.

Seeing that this is a US Politics thread I will give you a few baby steps to start your education of the real world.
Below are two documentaries of Presidents of the not too distant past. Fully documented evidence of their massive corruption. Please watch it all attentively while suspending your present core belief system. In doing so you will gain a huge leap forward in consciousness and awareness. This goes for all the other board members with their lame replies.

I will post this one first because his evil wife is favourite to become the next President:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx3COYq1W_8

Now to one the most evil people in the history of the world, still calling the shots at 91 years of age. Here you will also see proof that that Presidential elections (selections) are just a dog and pony show and that's the least of the corruptions proven here.

https://youtu.be/ZYKlwI_oDQM



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 04, 2016, 05:52:41 AM
FFS lads, don't waste your time arguing with the tinfoil hat crowd when there's more interesting things to talk about. If a flat-Earther came in here would you engage him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 04, 2016, 07:24:06 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/03/donald-trump-racist-gary-johnson-antisemitism-hillary-clinton

On Saturday, Trump posted online an image of the presumptive Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, superimposed over a pile of cash and a six-pointed star carrying the text "most corrupt candidate ever".

He was quickly accused of antisemitism, for the image and his use of the phrase "America first", which the Anti-Defamation League has urged him not to use because of its history with Nazi sympathizers in the 1930s.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 04, 2016, 07:09:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 04, 2016, 05:52:41 AM
FFS lads, don't waste your time arguing with the tinfoil hat crowd when there's more interesting things to talk about. If a flat-Earther came in here would you engage him?

Two intelligent replies in a row, you should be so proud of yourself.

Anybody that resorts to bad language, name calling and character defamation is well beaten
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on July 04, 2016, 07:13:01 PM
We could definitely do with Clinton getting in for a bit of support if this Brexit shite goes pear shaped.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 05, 2016, 04:07:52 AM
Just throwing it out there...

(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567211_1175394852553567_3850659603000072835_n.png?oh=368848e74cde6f8f2a1ceee7ca9ad204&oe=58345F7D)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 05, 2016, 06:27:24 AM
This could be a whitewash election.

Gop has been drooling at the thought of Clinton getting into trouble over the email server. What does trump do? Gets himself into shit for:
A) telling the Sec how much money he has and telling everyone else something else( hint, not as much as he says, ask mark Cuban.)
B) posting anti Clinton tweets from anti semitic websites (while at the same time his daughter is Jewish, as is her husband)
C) soliciting money illegally from European politicians
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2016, 09:33:42 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/how-remain-failed-inside-story-doomed-campaign

"When a lot of people in a society feel that life has passed them by, they don't much like their present and they don't see a path to the future, offering them an enemy is not clever. It is easy. Nationalism triumphed over liberalism, populism triumphed over evidence and expertise; paranoia triumphed over trust."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 05, 2016, 04:29:49 PM
FBI not recommending criminal charges for Hillary, although saying she and her staff were very careless with classified info.

Should be a good morning in Fox News land and over on Fifth at Trump Tower! ;D

Although in fairness, this issue was win-win for Trump.

Now he gets to cry "whitewash" and "fix", even though the FBI director is a Republican and former Deputy AG under Bush.

How many "investigations" will the House open now?

We had seven, so far, for Benghazi, all with the same results.

Have to keep it in the news somehow once it all dies down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:13:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 05, 2016, 04:07:52 AM
Just throwing it out there...

(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567211_1175394852553567_3850659603000072835_n.png?oh=368848e74cde6f8f2a1ceee7ca9ad204&oe=58345F7D)

What does that prove exactly. Plenty of lecturers around

He didn't even make it to professor.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 05, 2016, 05:19:00 PM
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: dec on July 05, 2016, 05:19:00 PM
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

Regarded as. Not qualified.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:13:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 05, 2016, 04:07:52 AM
Just throwing it out there...

(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567211_1175394852553567_3850659603000072835_n.png?oh=368848e74cde6f8f2a1ceee7ca9ad204&oe=58345F7D)

What does that prove exactly. Plenty of lecturers around

He didn't even make it to professor.



I think it's evidence that he's not stupid.

Like the poster says!  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: dec on July 05, 2016, 05:19:00 PM
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

Regarded as. Not qualified.

If he was "not qualified", why did the faculty invite him to become a full time, tenure track professor, not once, but "several times"?

(Not that I give a bollocks, but you seemingly do!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 05, 2016, 06:30:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: dec on July 05, 2016, 05:19:00 PM
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

Regarded as. Not qualified.

If he was "not qualified", why did the faculty invite him to become a full time, tenure track professor, not once, but "several times"?

(Not that I give a bollocks, but you seemingly do!)

Fox was Summa Cum Laude at Harvard Law. Can't you tell?  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2016, 06:39:22 PM
Obama supported a lot of illegal policies as Prez
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 07:26:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: dec on July 05, 2016, 05:19:00 PM
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

Regarded as. Not qualified.

If he was "not qualified", why did the faculty invite him to become a full time, tenure track professor, not once, but "several times"?

(Not that I give a bollocks, but you seemingly do!)

Not the first time he was invited to a apply for a post he wasn't qualified for.

Maybe you should research it a little more and find out what he actually lectured about. The result will be quite unsurprising.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 07:28:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:13:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 05, 2016, 04:07:52 AM
Just throwing it out there...

(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567211_1175394852553567_3850659603000072835_n.png?oh=368848e74cde6f8f2a1ceee7ca9ad204&oe=58345F7D)

What does that prove exactly. Plenty of lecturers around

He didn't even make it to professor.



I think it's evidence that he's not stupid.

Like the poster says!  ;)

That poster is clearly evidence. Go **** in a sock.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 05, 2016, 08:54:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 07:26:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: dec on July 05, 2016, 05:19:00 PM
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

Regarded as. Not qualified.

If he was "not qualified", why did the faculty invite him to become a full time, tenure track professor, not once, but "several times"?

(Not that I give a bollocks, but you seemingly do!)

Not the first time he was invited to a apply for a post he wasn't qualified for.

Maybe you should research it a little more and find out what he actually lectured about. The result will be quite unsurprising.

I don't care what he lectured about. But fill us in if you wish.

You're the one claiming he was only "regarded" as a professor, not "qualified".

The very paragraph you quoted contradicts that.

And he wasn't invited to apply. He was invited to join. Qualification is usually a prequisite to joining, but sure go ahead and prove that he wasn't qualified.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 05, 2016, 08:55:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 07:28:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:13:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 05, 2016, 04:07:52 AM
Just throwing it out there...

(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567211_1175394852553567_3850659603000072835_n.png?oh=368848e74cde6f8f2a1ceee7ca9ad204&oe=58345F7D)

What does that prove exactly. Plenty of lecturers around

He didn't even make it to professor.



I think it's evidence that he's not stupid.

Like the poster says!  ;)

That poster is clearly evidence. Go **** in a sock.

;D ;D :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 11:39:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 08:54:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 07:26:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: dec on July 05, 2016, 05:19:00 PM
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

Regarded as. Not qualified.

If he was "not qualified", why did the faculty invite him to become a full time, tenure track professor, not once, but "several times"?

(Not that I give a bollocks, but you seemingly do!)

Not the first time he was invited to a apply for a post he wasn't qualified for.

Maybe you should research it a little more and find out what he actually lectured about. The result will be quite unsurprising.

I don't care what he lectured about. But fill us in if you wish.

You're the one claiming he was only "regarded" as a professor, not "qualified".

The very paragraph you quoted contradicts that.

And he wasn't invited to apply. He was invited to join. Qualification is usually a prequisite to joining, but sure go ahead and prove that he wasn't qualified.

Being regarded as something doesn't make it true. Otherwise I could regard myself as the best forward to have ever graced a pitch.

Where does it say he was a qualified professor?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 11:41:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 08:55:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 07:28:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:13:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 05, 2016, 04:07:52 AM
Just throwing it out there...

(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567211_1175394852553567_3850659603000072835_n.png?oh=368848e74cde6f8f2a1ceee7ca9ad204&oe=58345F7D)

What does that prove exactly. Plenty of lecturers around

He didn't even make it to professor.



I think it's evidence that he's not stupid.

Like the poster says!  ;)

That poster is clearly evidence. Go **** in a sock.

;D ;D :-*

That was more for Eamon than you - he gets fierce worked up about this stuff. Usually in public toilets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 06, 2016, 12:29:38 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 11:39:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 08:54:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 07:26:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 05, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: dec on July 05, 2016, 05:19:00 PM
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

Regarded as. Not qualified.

If he was "not qualified", why did the faculty invite him to become a full time, tenure track professor, not once, but "several times"?

(Not that I give a bollocks, but you seemingly do!)

Not the first time he was invited to a apply for a post he wasn't qualified for.

Maybe you should research it a little more and find out what he actually lectured about. The result will be quite unsurprising.

I don't care what he lectured about. But fill us in if you wish.

You're the one claiming he was only "regarded" as a professor, not "qualified".

The very paragraph you quoted contradicts that.

And he wasn't invited to apply. He was invited to join. Qualification is usually a prequisite to joining, but sure go ahead and prove that he wasn't qualified.

Being regarded as something doesn't make it true. Otherwise I could regard myself as the best forward to have ever graced a pitch.

Where does it say he was a qualified professor?

Well, if you got an offer to play for a top class club, you could at least console yourself that you were at least qualified to play at that level.

But, if you can't even acknowledge what the college itself is saying in black and white about Obama (with some red I added for you benefit), you need help with your deluded, irrational hatred.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 06, 2016, 12:41:27 AM
J70.....Obama became the editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having published a single article......not one singular solitary article....stone cold affirmative action hire. 

He's no more a constitutional law scholar than I am....his hiring in Chicago was a politically motivated affirmative action hire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 06, 2016, 01:18:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 12:41:27 AM
J70.....Obama became the editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having published a single article......not one singular solitary article....stone cold affirmative action hire. 

He's no more a constitutional law scholar than I am....his hiring in Chicago was a politically motivated affirmative action hire

Ah Whitey, you have it all backwards.  ;D

Moat people write anonymously for the Harvard Law Review in their first year there. And for very good reason.

Most expect to go on and be successful and don't want such articles coming back to haunt them. And that would apply to less high profile jobs than President.

Despite the above, one article, on the right of the foetus (see what I mean?) has since been attributed to Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 06, 2016, 02:02:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 12:41:27 AM
J70.....Obama became the editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having published a single article......not one singular solitary article....stone cold affirmative action hire. 

He's no more a constitutional law scholar than I am....his hiring in Chicago was a politically motivated affirmative action hire


So there's reports from back then that Obama was elected editor of Harvard Law Review and given a job at the University of Chicago due to affirmative action?

Editors then typically had lots of publications to their names? Obama was demonstrably less qualified than anyone else to ascend to those positions?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 06, 2016, 02:38:08 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 06, 2016, 01:18:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 12:41:27 AM
J70.....Obama became the editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having published a single article......not one singular solitary article....stone cold affirmative action hire. 

He's no more a constitutional law scholar than I am....his hiring in Chicago was a politically motivated affirmative action hire

Ah Whitey, you have it all backwards.  ;D

Moat people write anonymously for the Harvard Law Review in their first year there. And for very good reason.

Most expect to go on and be successful and don't want such articles coming back to haunt them. And that would apply to less high profile jobs than President.

Despite the above, one article, on the right of the foetus (see what I mean?) has since been attributed to Obama.

Do you have any credible source to back that up...I've read extensively on the topic and that's the first I've ever heard of anyone submitting articles anonymously to the HLW.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 06, 2016, 03:27:59 AM
Google Harvardlawreview.org
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 06, 2016, 04:51:34 AM
Evening, everyone. Here is today's conservative bait:

(http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2012/1024/20121024_031828_obama-meme.jpg)

Take it away, Fox. Standing by for your head to explode in 5-4-3-2-1...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 06, 2016, 05:00:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 06, 2016, 04:51:34 AM
Evening, everyone. Here is today's conservative bait:

(http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2012/1024/20121024_031828_obama-meme.jpg)

Take it away, Fox. Standing by for your head to explode in 5-4-3-2-1...
The GOP spent so much energy on the birth cert yet when Trump came along he stole the Base unopposed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 06, 2016, 05:25:04 AM
Donald Trump has been sued for sexual assault of a 13 year old girl. Here's the filing:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/316341058/Donald-Trump-Jeffrey-Epstein-Rape-Lawsuit-and-Affidavits#fullscreen?platform=hootsuite (https://www.scribd.com/doc/316341058/Donald-Trump-Jeffrey-Epstein-Rape-Lawsuit-and-Affidavits#fullscreen?platform=hootsuite)

Mainstream media doesn't seem to be picking it up, which is interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 06, 2016, 08:40:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 02:38:08 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 06, 2016, 01:18:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 12:41:27 AM
J70.....Obama became the editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having published a single article......not one singular solitary article....stone cold affirmative action hire. 

He's no more a constitutional law scholar than I am....his hiring in Chicago was a politically motivated affirmative action hire

Ah Whitey, you have it all backwards.  ;D

Moat people write anonymously for the Harvard Law Review in their first year there. And for very good reason.

Most expect to go on and be successful and don't want such articles coming back to haunt them. And that would apply to less high profile jobs than President.

Despite the above, one article, on the right of the foetus (see what I mean?) has since been attributed to Obama.

Do you have any credible source to back that up...I've read extensively on the topic and that's the first I've ever heard of anyone submitting articles anonymously to the HLW.

http://harvardlawreview.org/about/ (http://harvardlawreview.org/about/)

...All student writing is unsigned. This policy reflects the fact that many members of the Review besides the author make a contribution to each published piece....

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2010/07/anonymity-of-notes-in-the-harvard-law-review.html (http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2010/07/anonymity-of-notes-in-the-harvard-law-review.html)

TUESDAY, JULY 13, 2010

Anonymity of Notes in the Harvard Law Review
6a00e54fd2d5af883400e55206f8788834-800wi As is the case with many student-edited law journals, members of the Harvard Law Review may write articles – called "notes" – for publication. But unlike most other student-edited law journals, the Harvard Law Review has a peculiar policy of publishing these articles anonymously.

http://law.fsu.libanswers.com/a.php?qid=29481 (http://law.fsu.libanswers.com/a.php?qid=29481) [Q & A explaining how to cite an unsigned article]

...This "note" in the Harvard Law Review is student-written and anonymous. In the journal's "about" page online, they state in the second to last paragraph that "All student writing is unsigned..."

https://theheartofbigbrother.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/part-2-harvard-law-review-anonymous-arguments-against-the-4th-amendment/ (https://theheartofbigbrother.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/part-2-harvard-law-review-anonymous-arguments-against-the-4th-amendment/)

As for the unsigned Note in the HLR, these are pieces of student writing are a normal part of the educational process that is membership in the review. Anonymity has always been the norm for these pieces. The reason supposedly is that the students are insufficiently formed professionally to have a signed piece published under their name, at least not one that goes through the Note review processed, which assesses them as student papers, rather than the Article review process, which assesses them as faculty or mature independent pieces. Other law schools have moved away from publishing these as unsigned, but not the HLR. Neither the Articles nor the unsigned Notes, in particular not the Notes, represent anything like a consensus or generally accepted view even of the set of students then-working on the review, much less of the Harvard Law School more generally. The Note you have identified is a piece of student writing that does not represent the views of anyone other than its author, likely a second or third year student. If the Dean at the time would have tried to influence that piece in any way, it would have been utterly unacceptable as a matter of academic freedom or the pedagogy behind having student-editors in law journals. Imputing the views of a student Note to every graduate of the Harvard Law School would strike most alumni as bizarre. It provides not more insight into the mind of any of the HLS alums who are presently on the supreme court than it does into the minds of other alums like William Brennan or Ralph Nader, or, for that matter, me. I completely agree that there are real political issues we need to address arising from the national security establishment's expansion. But I don't think an unsigned student Note sheds much light on how we got here or what we need to do to get out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 06, 2016, 09:25:09 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/05/politics/donald-trump-saddam-hussein-iraq-terrorism/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/05/politics/donald-trump-saddam-hussein-iraq-terrorism/)

Raleigh, North Carolina (CNN)Donald Trump on Tuesday once again expressed his preference for keeping dictators in power in the Middle East.

While acknowledging that Saddam Hussein "was a bad guy," Trump praised the former Iraqi dictator's efficient killing of "terrorists" -- despite the fact that Iraq was listed as a state sponsor of terrorism during Hussein's time in power.

Trump, who supported the Iraq War before the invasion and in the early months of the war, said the U.S. "shouldn't have destabilized" Iraq before pivoting to praising Hussein.

"He was a bad guy -- really bad guy. But you know what? He did well? He killed terrorists. He did that so good. They didn't read them the rights. They didn't talk. They were terrorists. Over. Today, Iraq is Harvard for terrorism," Trump said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 06, 2016, 12:15:31 PM
QuoteDonald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  7h7 hours ago
I don't think the voters will forget the rigged system that allowed Crooked Hillary to get away with "murder." Come November 8, she's out!

"murder"

Classic Donald  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on July 06, 2016, 01:23:37 PM
http://www.newstalk.com/Donald-Trump-accused-of-statutory-rape-assault-and-battery-against-13yearold-girl
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 06, 2016, 01:38:06 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on July 06, 2016, 01:23:37 PM
http://www.newstalk.com/Donald-Trump-accused-of-statutory-rape-assault-and-battery-against-13yearold-girl

He [Saddam] killed terrorists. He did that so good. They didn't read them the rights. They didn't talk. They were terrorists.

I wonder if Donald will want his rights now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 06, 2016, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 06, 2016, 04:51:34 AM
Evening, everyone. Here is today's conservative bait:

(http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2012/1024/20121024_031828_obama-meme.jpg)

Take it away, Fox. Standing by for your head to explode in 5-4-3-2-1...

Some say he's still alive Eamon.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BjW1avGcuos/TG27LdJmdTI/AAAAAAAACnQ/IRwAp-PQ6AA/s1600/Obama+muslim.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 06, 2016, 07:38:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 06, 2016, 08:40:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 02:38:08 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 06, 2016, 01:18:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 12:41:27 AM
J70.....Obama became the editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having published a single article......not one singular solitary article....stone cold affirmative action hire. 

He's no more a constitutional law scholar than I am....his hiring in Chicago was a politically motivated affirmative action hire

Ah Whitey, you have it all backwards.  ;D

Moat people write anonymously for the Harvard Law Review in their first year there. And for very good reason.

Most expect to go on and be successful and don't want such articles coming back to haunt them. And that would apply to less high profile jobs than President.

Despite the above, one article, on the right of the foetus (see what I mean?) has since been attributed to Obama.

Do you have any credible source to back that up...I've read extensively on the topic and that's the first I've ever heard of anyone submitting articles anonymously to the HLW.

http://harvardlawreview.org/about/ (http://harvardlawreview.org/about/)

...All student writing is unsigned. This policy reflects the fact that many members of the Review besides the author make a contribution to each published piece....

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2010/07/anonymity-of-notes-in-the-harvard-law-review.html (http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2010/07/anonymity-of-notes-in-the-harvard-law-review.html)

TUESDAY, JULY 13, 2010

Anonymity of Notes in the Harvard Law Review
6a00e54fd2d5af883400e55206f8788834-800wi As is the case with many student-edited law journals, members of the Harvard Law Review may write articles – called "notes" – for publication. But unlike most other student-edited law journals, the Harvard Law Review has a peculiar policy of publishing these articles anonymously.

http://law.fsu.libanswers.com/a.php?qid=29481 (http://law.fsu.libanswers.com/a.php?qid=29481) [Q & A explaining how to cite an unsigned article]

...This "note" in the Harvard Law Review is student-written and anonymous. In the journal's "about" page online, they state in the second to last paragraph that "All student writing is unsigned..."

https://theheartofbigbrother.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/part-2-harvard-law-review-anonymous-arguments-against-the-4th-amendment/ (https://theheartofbigbrother.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/part-2-harvard-law-review-anonymous-arguments-against-the-4th-amendment/)

As for the unsigned Note in the HLR, these are pieces of student writing are a normal part of the educational process that is membership in the review. Anonymity has always been the norm for these pieces. The reason supposedly is that the students are insufficiently formed professionally to have a signed piece published under their name, at least not one that goes through the Note review processed, which assesses them as student papers, rather than the Article review process, which assesses them as faculty or mature independent pieces. Other law schools have moved away from publishing these as unsigned, but not the HLR. Neither the Articles nor the unsigned Notes, in particular not the Notes, represent anything like a consensus or generally accepted view even of the set of students then-working on the review, much less of the Harvard Law School more generally. The Note you have identified is a piece of student writing that does not represent the views of anyone other than its author, likely a second or third year student. If the Dean at the time would have tried to influence that piece in any way, it would have been utterly unacceptable as a matter of academic freedom or the pedagogy behind having student-editors in law journals. Imputing the views of a student Note to every graduate of the Harvard Law School would strike most alumni as bizarre. It provides not more insight into the mind of any of the HLS alums who are presently on the supreme court than it does into the minds of other alums like William Brennan or Ralph Nader, or, for that matter, me. I completely agree that there are real political issues we need to address arising from the national security establishment's expansion. But I don't think an unsigned student Note sheds much light on how we got here or what we need to do to get out.


Ahh..I think I get it....the Republicans were trying to goad him into releasing something they could then use against him.


Would one not reasonably expect that such an esteemed scribe would have left some type of a "written" footprint post Harvard, especially seeing as  he was a constitutional law professor in Chicago???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 06, 2016, 09:33:28 PM
Such as your own esteemed footprint?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 06, 2016, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 06, 2016, 03:18:36 PM
Some say he's still alive Eamon.

Just the conspiracy loons
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 06, 2016, 09:48:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 06, 2016, 09:33:28 PM
Such as your own esteemed footprint?

Blah
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 06, 2016, 11:04:59 PM
my thoughts exactly!

anyhooooo

interesting news for the GOP today:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-donald-trump-forces-see-convention-coup-as-within-reach-1467839099
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 07, 2016, 12:15:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 07:38:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 06, 2016, 08:40:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 02:38:08 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 06, 2016, 01:18:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 06, 2016, 12:41:27 AM
J70.....Obama became the editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having published a single article......not one singular solitary article....stone cold affirmative action hire. 

He's no more a constitutional law scholar than I am....his hiring in Chicago was a politically motivated affirmative action hire

Ah Whitey, you have it all backwards.  ;D

Moat people write anonymously for the Harvard Law Review in their first year there. And for very good reason.

Most expect to go on and be successful and don't want such articles coming back to haunt them. And that would apply to less high profile jobs than President.

Despite the above, one article, on the right of the foetus (see what I mean?) has since been attributed to Obama.

Do you have any credible source to back that up...I've read extensively on the topic and that's the first I've ever heard of anyone submitting articles anonymously to the HLW.

http://harvardlawreview.org/about/ (http://harvardlawreview.org/about/)

...All student writing is unsigned. This policy reflects the fact that many members of the Review besides the author make a contribution to each published piece....

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2010/07/anonymity-of-notes-in-the-harvard-law-review.html (http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2010/07/anonymity-of-notes-in-the-harvard-law-review.html)

TUESDAY, JULY 13, 2010

Anonymity of Notes in the Harvard Law Review
6a00e54fd2d5af883400e55206f8788834-800wi As is the case with many student-edited law journals, members of the Harvard Law Review may write articles – called "notes" – for publication. But unlike most other student-edited law journals, the Harvard Law Review has a peculiar policy of publishing these articles anonymously.

http://law.fsu.libanswers.com/a.php?qid=29481 (http://law.fsu.libanswers.com/a.php?qid=29481) [Q & A explaining how to cite an unsigned article]

...This "note" in the Harvard Law Review is student-written and anonymous. In the journal's "about" page online, they state in the second to last paragraph that "All student writing is unsigned..."

https://theheartofbigbrother.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/part-2-harvard-law-review-anonymous-arguments-against-the-4th-amendment/ (https://theheartofbigbrother.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/part-2-harvard-law-review-anonymous-arguments-against-the-4th-amendment/)

As for the unsigned Note in the HLR, these are pieces of student writing are a normal part of the educational process that is membership in the review. Anonymity has always been the norm for these pieces. The reason supposedly is that the students are insufficiently formed professionally to have a signed piece published under their name, at least not one that goes through the Note review processed, which assesses them as student papers, rather than the Article review process, which assesses them as faculty or mature independent pieces. Other law schools have moved away from publishing these as unsigned, but not the HLR. Neither the Articles nor the unsigned Notes, in particular not the Notes, represent anything like a consensus or generally accepted view even of the set of students then-working on the review, much less of the Harvard Law School more generally. The Note you have identified is a piece of student writing that does not represent the views of anyone other than its author, likely a second or third year student. If the Dean at the time would have tried to influence that piece in any way, it would have been utterly unacceptable as a matter of academic freedom or the pedagogy behind having student-editors in law journals. Imputing the views of a student Note to every graduate of the Harvard Law School would strike most alumni as bizarre. It provides not more insight into the mind of any of the HLS alums who are presently on the supreme court than it does into the minds of other alums like William Brennan or Ralph Nader, or, for that matter, me. I completely agree that there are real political issues we need to address arising from the national security establishment's expansion. But I don't think an unsigned student Note sheds much light on how we got here or what we need to do to get out.


Ahh..I think I get it....the Republicans were trying to goad him into releasing something they could then use against him.


Would one not reasonably expect that such an esteemed scribe would have left some type of a "written" footprint post Harvard, especially seeing as  he was a constitutional law professor in Chicago???

So in conclusion.....

"Obama became the editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having published a single article......not one singular solitary article"

Now that it is pointed out to you that all student articles in the HLR are published anonymously.....maybe we can take that one on the chin and move on......to.....

"Would one not reasonably expect that such an esteemed scribe would have left some type of a "written" footprint post Harvard,'

So what would you consider a 'written footprint post Harvard'?

Me....

I couldn't think of any way to find a post-Harvard written footprint:

http://www.amazon.com/Barack-Obama/e/B001H6OA8E (http://www.amazon.com/Barack-Obama/e/B001H6OA8E)

(http://www.giyf.com/gfx/en/simpsons_board.gif)





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 07, 2016, 02:12:54 AM
Ehhhh.....Im talking about him writing legal opinions and such, you know kinda  like the ones one would expect from an esteemed law professor at one of the top law schools in the country

For example heres a list of Alan Dershowitz musings:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/author/Alan+M.+Dershowitzo

LOL.....the books he wrote which you linked in on Amazon....werent those the ones where his biographer stated he was born in Kenya?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 07, 2016, 03:12:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 07, 2016, 02:12:54 AM
.werent those the ones where his biographer stated he was born in Kenya?

No
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 07, 2016, 03:20:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 07, 2016, 02:12:54 AM
Ehhhh.....Im talking about him writing legal opinions and such, you know kinda  like the ones one would expect from an esteemed law professor at one of the top law schools in the country

For example heres a list of Alan Dershowitz musings:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/author/Alan+M.+Dershowitzo

LOL.....the books he wrote which you linked in on Amazon....werent those the ones where his biographer stated he was born in Kenya?

Eehhhhh....

This is what you said: "Obama became the editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having published a single article......not one singular solitary article."

Well that didn't go well, did it? What with Harvard Law Review publishing its articles unsigned and stuff......as policy....and you having extensively researched this......and not noticed that.....

Then you desperately changed it to this: "Would one not reasonably expect that such an esteemed scribe would have left some type of a "written" footprint post Harvard"

And that didn't go very well either. What with the autobiography and other yeti-sized footprints.



Anyway, I had an interesting conversation with a recently returned (from the States) politically neutral relative.

She observed that the US election will boil down to this:

How much far-reaching damage, are those who detest the Clintons, willing to do to their country, to stop Hilary gaining power.

In fairness it isn't much of a choice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 07, 2016, 06:36:36 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 06, 2016, 01:38:06 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on July 06, 2016, 01:23:37 PM
http://www.newstalk.com/Donald-Trump-accused-of-statutory-rape-assault-and-battery-against-13yearold-girl

He [Saddam] killed terrorists. He did that so good. They didn't read them the rights. They didn't talk. They were terrorists.

I wonder if Donald will want his rights now?

That Trump quote reminds me of some nonsense from Mr Potato Head, John Bolton. He said there is no comparison between terrorism and Israel shooting civilians. One is obscene and the other is tragic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on July 08, 2016, 06:11:45 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)

Saw this on a bumper sticker the other day. Nice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on July 08, 2016, 06:56:12 AM
Those Sanders supporters have gone to far with that one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 08, 2016, 07:53:06 AM
The political system in the US can't cope with the fallout from the economic situation. The Founders devised a King less system of checks and balances to avoid the system coming under the control of a corrupt elite but the wealth of the wealthiest is off the scale now. Political polarisation has been the norm for a few years and reduces the chances of chronic issues such as healthcare or climate  being dealt with coherently. The Clinton email thing is one example of what the other side do with an issue. American failure is something to get used to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 08, 2016, 11:17:20 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)

So it's best to just vote for Hillary, never bring up her criminal activity and that of her husband and get set for "The Reign of Terror"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 08, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: Seamus on July 08, 2016, 11:17:20 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)

So it's best to just vote for Hillary, never bring up her criminal activity and that of her husband and get set for "The Reign of Terror"?

Why do you beat your wife?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2016, 04:22:40 AM
Oh, Fox? What's that you were saying about Obama's "failed presidency?"

(http://andrewtobias.com/column/wp-content/uploads/Obama-7-Years.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 09, 2016, 05:05:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2016, 04:22:40 AM
Oh, Fox? What's that you were saying about Obama's "failed presidency?"

(http://andrewtobias.com/column/wp-content/uploads/Obama-7-Years.png)

You've been busy with photoshop I see :D
Unemployment 4.9% ???

Do crack dealers, thieves and bootleg CD/DVD sellers count as employed? Obviously do under the Obama administration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 10, 2016, 01:33:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: Seamus on July 08, 2016, 11:17:20 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)

So it's best to just vote for Hillary, never bring up her criminal activity and that of her husband and get set for "The Reign of Terror"?

Why do you beat your wife?

I don't beat my wife, why do you ask why? Where is your proof?

Did that tee-shirt make you go home and beat your wife? If so you have far greater underlying problems and blaming a tee-shirt is only a cop out.

Hillary Clinton should be in jail and possibly on Death Row. All that knows of her criminal deeds would never equate those words with being anti women. Of course there are those that blindly follow, that is their problem. No need for political correctness when it comes to that sociopath.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 10, 2016, 01:35:50 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 05, 2016, 04:07:52 AM
Just throwing it out there...

(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567211_1175394852553567_3850659603000072835_n.png?oh=368848e74cde6f8f2a1ceee7ca9ad204&oe=58345F7D)

Obama is a total fake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 10, 2016, 06:01:50 AM
Unemployment this year:

Jan 4.9%
Feb 4.9%
Mar 5.0%
Apr 5.0%
May 4.7%
Jun 4.9%

In December 2008 it was 7.3%.  Very simple question, which is a bigger number? 4.9 or 7.3? Even a conservative like you could answer this one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 10, 2016, 06:03:15 AM
By the way...

(https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/8247_975207542570572_5878210947925500999_n.jpg?oh=4009695e783b2ee468ac0d3419d2e653&oe=57F3306D)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2016, 12:58:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 10, 2016, 06:01:50 AM
Unemployment this year:

Jan 4.9%
Feb 4.9%
Mar 5.0%
Apr 5.0%
May 4.7%
Jun 4.9%

In December 2008 it was 7.3%.  Very simple question, which is a bigger number? 4.9 or 7.3? Even a conservative like you could answer this one.

But you see, the 5% figures are all fabricated by the BLS.

REAL employment numbers (which were unheard of before Obama took office) are more in the range of 25-40%. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 10, 2016, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 10, 2016, 01:33:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: Seamus on July 08, 2016, 11:17:20 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)

So it's best to just vote for Hillary, never bring up her criminal activity and that of her husband and get set for "The Reign of Terror"?

Why do you beat your wife?

I don't beat my wife, why do you ask why? Where is your proof?

Did that tee-shirt make you go home and beat your wife? If so you have far greater underlying problems and blaming a tee-shirt is only a cop out.

Hillary Clinton should be in jail and possibly on Death Row. All that knows of her criminal deeds would never equate those words with being anti women. Of course there are those that blindly follow, that is their problem. No need for political correctness when it comes to that sociopath.

Of course you beat your wife.

You should be on death row you sociopath.

Why the hell would anyone need proof for anything? Just read your hysterical Hannity-style nonsense to see proof of that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2016, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: Seamus on July 10, 2016, 01:33:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: Seamus on July 08, 2016, 11:17:20 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)

So it's best to just vote for Hillary, never bring up her criminal activity and that of her husband and get set for "The Reign of Terror"?

Why do you beat your wife?

I don't beat my wife, why do you ask why? Where is your proof?

Did that tee-shirt make you go home and beat your wife? If so you have far greater underlying problems and blaming a tee-shirt is only a cop out.

Hillary Clinton should be in jail and possibly on Death Row. All that knows of her criminal deeds would never equate those words with being anti women. Of course there are those that blindly follow, that is their problem. No need for political correctness when it comes to that sociopath.

Death row??

What did the Clintons do now? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 11, 2016, 02:00:55 AM
The "Killary" bullshit is an updated version of the "Bill's body bags" bullshit that's been going around for years. Here's the Snopes debunking:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 11, 2016, 12:35:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 10, 2016, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 10, 2016, 01:33:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: Seamus on July 08, 2016, 11:17:20 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)

So it's best to just vote for Hillary, never bring up her criminal activity and that of her husband and get set for "The Reign of Terror"?

Why do you beat your wife?

I don't beat my wife, why do you ask why? Where is your proof?

Did that tee-shirt make you go home and beat your wife? If so you have far greater underlying problems and blaming a tee-shirt is only a cop out.

Hillary Clinton should be in jail and possibly on Death Row. All that knows of her criminal deeds would never equate those words with being anti women. Of course there are those that blindly follow, that is their problem. No need for political correctness when it comes to that sociopath.

Of course you beat your wife.

You should be on death row you sociopath.

Why the hell would anyone need proof for anything? Just read your hysterical Hannity-style nonsense to see proof of that.

You're just another loser, a cowardly keyboard warrior.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 11, 2016, 12:38:56 PM
19 seconds of Obama

Sent by a German friend after the YouTube version from the US was pulled.

If you haven't heard this you should listen to it. It only takes 19 seconds. It's unbelievable that Obama actually says this out loud!  This Obama speech was given at the Bilderberg Group conference in Brussels, Belgium, on May 23, 2014. Obama's comments are chilling - THIS IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER that has been percolating through a number of American presidencies and other world leaders, and now seems to be coming into fruition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfRtbIQ1kTw&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 11, 2016, 01:18:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)

Muppet, we had an MSNBC anchor live on air suggest that someone should defecate and urinate in Sarah Palins mouth.....and closer to home for you just last week some donkey suggest that Nigel Faragrs minor daughters should be gang raped.....there's plenty of hated from both sides
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2016, 02:32:25 PM
Some half-wit who lives near me and sports a tea party "don't tread on me" flag outside his house is currently driving about the place (in Queens, NYC) with a huge US and confederate flag on the back of his pick-up truck. I see lots of tshirts and bumper stickers about jailing Hillary and liberals being idiots.

I've seen similar in other areas of the US, especially Florida. Then you get the open carry nuts. Rarely any corresponding displays from liberals.

Maybe it's just me, but the conservative white males who sport this type of nonsense seem much more aggressive and in your face than other groups.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on July 11, 2016, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 11, 2016, 12:38:56 PM
19 seconds of Obama

Sent by a German friend after the YouTube version from the US was pulled.

If you haven't heard this you should listen to it. It only takes 19 seconds. It's unbelievable that Obama actually says this out loud!  This Obama speech was given at the Bilderberg Group conference in Brussels, Belgium, on May 23, 2014. Obama's comments are chilling - THIS IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER that has been percolating through a number of American presidencies and other world leaders, and now seems to be coming into fruition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfRtbIQ1kTw&feature=youtu.be

haha nice try post the full version  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on July 11, 2016, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 11, 2016, 12:38:56 PM
19 seconds of Obama

Sent by a German friend after the YouTube version from the US was pulled.

If you haven't heard this you should listen to it. It only takes 19 seconds. It's unbelievable that Obama actually says this out loud!  This Obama speech was given at the Bilderberg Group conference in Brussels, Belgium, on May 23, 2014. Obama's comments are chilling - THIS IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER that has been percolating through a number of American presidencies and other world leaders, and now seems to be coming into fruition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfRtbIQ1kTw&feature=youtu.be

Massive fail brainiac  :o

The things you have to put up with in the name of free speech...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 11, 2016, 03:57:25 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 11, 2016, 12:38:56 PM
19 seconds of Obama

Sent by a German friend after the YouTube version from the US was pulled.

If you haven't heard this you should listen to it. It only takes 19 seconds. It's unbelievable that Obama actually says this out loud!  This Obama speech was given at the Bilderberg Group conference in Brussels, Belgium, on May 23, 2014. Obama's comments are chilling - THIS IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER that has been percolating through a number of American presidencies and other world leaders, and now seems to be coming into fruition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfRtbIQ1kTw&feature=youtu.be

Seamus,
When something seems too good to be true, it usually is!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 11, 2016, 04:08:17 PM
Seamus is on the right track but he could have gave  a better example of how the criminals in United States government operate. US needed a "new pear harbor" to generate a global take over. When they blew up the twin towers on September 11th it gave them the perfect opportunity. 
https://youtu.be/r8YtF76s-yM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 11, 2016, 04:12:54 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 11, 2016, 12:38:56 PM
This Obama speech was given at the Bilderberg Group conference in Brussels, Belgium, on May 23, 2014.

No it wasn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2016, 05:28:51 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 11, 2016, 04:08:17 PM
Seamus is on the right track but he could have gave  a better example of how the criminals in United States government operate. US needed a "new pear harbor" to generate a global take over. When they blew up the twin towers on September 11th it gave them the perfect opportunity. 
https://youtu.be/r8YtF76s-yM

So who are these "criminals" in the US government?

The career civil servants?

Or the political appointees whose positions turn over every couple of years?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 11, 2016, 05:42:41 PM
United States is run by Zionism. Its political suicide to speak out against the Zionist  state of Israel. In order to get selected  Clinton and Trump are falling over themselves for these parasites, they know that is where the power is.

Politicians are easy bought when the Jews control the money.

https://youtu.be/eTC-F1vtrNI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 11, 2016, 06:52:09 PM
The Hillary Clinton email server was merely a distraction from the Clinton Foundation. Focus on the Foundation. All of the nightmarish truth is there. The e-mails will pale in comparison. For once the dog and pony show may get interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 11, 2016, 07:09:07 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 11, 2016, 05:42:41 PM
United States is run by Zionism. Its political suicide to speak out against the Zionist  state of Israel. In order to get selected  Clinton and Trump are falling over themselves for these parasites, they know that is where the power is.

Politicians are easy bought when the Jews control the money.

https://youtu.be/eTC-F1vtrNI
I think Zionist power is on the way out. No.popular support.  Someone like Trump will turn on them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 11, 2016, 07:33:28 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 11, 2016, 05:42:41 PM
United States is run by Zionism. Its political suicide to speak out against the Zionist  state of Israel. In order to get selected  Clinton and Trump are falling over themselves for these parasites, they know that is where the power is.

Politicians are easy bought when the Jews control the money.

https://youtu.be/eTC-F1vtrNI
I think Zionist power is on the way out. No.popular support.  Someone like Trump will turn on them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 11, 2016, 09:37:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 11, 2016, 07:33:28 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 11, 2016, 05:42:41 PM
United States is run by Zionism. Its political suicide to speak out against the Zionist  state of Israel. In order to get selected  Clinton and Trump are falling over themselves for these parasites, they know that is where the power is.

Politicians are easy bought when the Jews control the money.

https://youtu.be/eTC-F1vtrNI
I think Zionist power is on the way out. No.popular support.  Someone like Trump will turn on them.

Im not so sure seafoid. Look how he reacts to the Israeli question here. https://youtu.be/D2UO8GwB9TE
Unless he is playing the political game but i highly doubt it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 11, 2016, 11:13:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2016, 02:32:25 PM
Some half-wit who lives near me and sports a tea party "don't tread on me" flag outside his house is currently driving about the place (in Queens, NYC) with a huge US and confederate flag on the back of his pick-up truck. I see lots of tshirts and bumper stickers about jailing Hillary and liberals being idiots.

I've seen similar in other areas of the US, especially Florida. Then you get the open carry nuts. Rarely any corresponding displays from liberals.

Maybe it's just me, but the conservative white males who sport this type of nonsense seem much more aggressive and in your face than other groups.

Anyone who feels the need to fly a confederate flag or open carry a gun needs a serious mental health evaluation. 

Yes, you are correct that most liberals aren't as in your face about their views, but the behavior of some of Bernies supporters left a lot to be desired.  They are all for free speech, as long as it's an opinion they agree with
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 12, 2016, 01:18:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 11, 2016, 01:18:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:38:01 AM
This sums up the misogyny, racism and complete hatred involved in US politics in one photo. And typically, those behind it think it sends the opposite message.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567067_10208109091699364_6182106701321557897_n.jpg?oh=6db0951c9f388a5ea19cbc3ac1a09a82&oe=583402BB)

Muppet, we had an MSNBC anchor live on air suggest that someone should defecate and urinate in Sarah Palins mouth.....and closer to home for you just last week some donkey suggest that Nigel Faragrs minor daughters should be gang raped.....there's plenty of hated from both sides

Why are there only two sides?

Why is it always them and us??

All of the above behaviour is hideous. But arguing that 'the other side is just as bad' is de facto giving approval.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2016, 03:17:23 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 11, 2016, 09:37:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 11, 2016, 07:33:28 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 11, 2016, 05:42:41 PM
United States is run by Zionism. Its political suicide to speak out against the Zionist  state of Israel. In order to get selected  Clinton and Trump are falling over themselves for these parasites, they know that is where the power is.

Politicians are easy bought when the Jews control the money.

https://youtu.be/eTC-F1vtrNI
I think Zionist power is on the way out. No.popular support.  Someone like Trump will turn on them.

Im not so sure seafoid. Look how he reacts to the Israeli question here. https://youtu.be/D2UO8GwB9TE
Unless he is playing the political game but i highly doubt it.
What is most striking about Trump is how far he goes from orthodoxy.  Zionism is an elite thing that works because of money and power. They can buy off everyone in elite politics and get them to swear loyalty but they have no influence on social media.

http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/impact-social-media-israelgaza-conflict/1182

No popular base. If it meant in gaining power that he had to shaft Zionism he would. Or someone coming after him would. And will.

Tammany Hall was exactly the same thing except it was Irish. And it collapsed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 14, 2016, 09:54:06 AM


Social safety nets are deemed socialist and thus un American so poverty in the US is far more extreme than in Europe

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117997/Making-invisible-visible-Haunting-pictures-Americas-vulnerable-people-shot-photojournalists-poverty.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 14, 2016, 11:09:19 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 11, 2016, 12:35:49 PM


You're just another loser, a cowardly keyboard warrior.

Did you type this on a keyboard?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 14, 2016, 11:13:25 PM
Israel is losing support on the American left, particularly among younger people. Netanyahu's antics in the US Congress and his disrespectful treatment of Obama have only worsened the situation. More Americans are coming to see Netanyahu as the right wing extremist he is. There were huge street protests during the massacre in Gaza a few years ago. They didn't get much media coverage but they did happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 14, 2016, 11:18:27 PM
http://endingthefed.com/coincidence-full-list-of-people-who-have-turned-up-dead-after-working-with-the-clintons.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 15, 2016, 06:22:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 14, 2016, 11:09:19 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 11, 2016, 12:35:49 PM


You're just another loser, a cowardly keyboard warrior.

Did you type this on a keyboard?

You are even too dumb to understand what I meant
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 15, 2016, 06:41:05 PM
I think the US is coming face to face with the fruition of issues it has ignored for years is race, guns, healthcare costs, neoliberalism, climate and income distribution. And everything is chaotic. Neither Trump nor Clinton are even remotely qualified to deal with any of this.
the US needs someone like FDR or Eisenhower with the power to break up special interests and introduce coherent change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 15, 2016, 07:12:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 15, 2016, 06:41:05 PM
I think the US is coming face to face with the fruition of issues it has ignored for years is race, guns, healthcare costs, neoliberalism, climate and income distribution. And everything is chaotic. Neither Trump nor Clinton are even remotely qualified to deal with any of this.
the US needs someone like FDR or Eisenhower with the power to break up special interests and introduce coherent change.

And I'm sure someone like that exists somewhere, but the political system is no longer very good at letting such people get into office. The only person I can think of who meets that description is Gerry Brown, but by the time he's done governing California he'll be a bit old to be running for president. On the younger end I'd say Corey Booker and Gavin Newsom look promising.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 15, 2016, 07:17:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 14, 2016, 11:18:27 PM
http://endingthefed.com/coincidence-full-list-of-people-who-have-turned-up-dead-after-working-with-the-clintons.html

There are only 20 names listed at that site. The better conspiracy loon sites list at least double that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 15, 2016, 07:19:55 PM
Quote from: dec on July 15, 2016, 07:17:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 14, 2016, 11:18:27 PM
http://endingthefed.com/coincidence-full-list-of-people-who-have-turned-up-dead-after-working-with-the-clintons.html

There are only 20 names listed at that site. The better conspiracy loon sites list at least double that.

That's nothing, there are millions of them. But as they are all dead they aren't around to tell us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2016, 08:25:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 15, 2016, 07:12:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 15, 2016, 06:41:05 PM
I think the US is coming face to face with the fruition of issues it has ignored for years is race, guns, healthcare costs, neoliberalism, climate and income distribution. And everything is chaotic. Neither Trump nor Clinton are even remotely qualified to deal with any of this.
the US needs someone like FDR or Eisenhower with the power to break up special interests and introduce coherent change.

And I'm sure someone like that exists somewhere, but the political system is no longer very good at letting such people get into office. The only person I can think of who meets that description is Gerry Brown, but by the time he's done governing California he'll be a bit old to be running for president. On the younger end I'd say Corey Booker and Gavin Newsom look promising.

Booker - coming out of Newark??... Is it even possible that there are no skeletons in his closet? ;D

Newsom has always struck me as presidential potential, at least superficially. Is he really a contender?

Amazing how he was married to that Fox News one, but then look at James Carville and his wife.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 15, 2016, 08:56:34 PM
Carville is a tr**p. He was the one who said Gennifer Flowers would be what you got if you dragged 100 dollars through a trailer park.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 16, 2016, 12:05:55 AM
I would expect that about 5% of people that read this thread have waked up and know what the real truth is. Almost all will not post from fear of been ridiculed by those that have fallen hook, line and sinker for the propaganda of the mainstream media.  Hopefully another 10% are searching for the truth, realizing they are constantly lied to every day by our so called leaders.

The information below will help those people toward the path of great awareness and fulfillment. Fulfillment in knowing that you will never fall for the lies again. When you get out of the Matrix there is no going back.

I spent close to a week in the company of Jon Rappoport back in 2002, he was over 70 (looked 50) back then, today he is still going strong and long may it continue. The world needs a lot more Jon Rappoports.

For the 15% I mentioned above this is for them, bookmark his home page. The rest can go along their merry way, please don't click on the link.

https://outsidetherealitymachine.wordpress.com/2016/04/29/media-covert-ops-and-the-alternate-universe/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 16, 2016, 12:15:31 AM
The Bible is less vague and probably has more evidence than Crappoport.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on July 16, 2016, 09:09:00 AM
Quote from: Seamus on July 16, 2016, 12:05:55 AM
I would expect that about 5% of people that read this thread have waked up and know what the real truth is. Almost all will not post from fear of been ridiculed by those that have fallen hook, line and sinker for the propaganda of the mainstream media.  Hopefully another 10% are searching for the truth, realizing they are constantly lied to every day by our so called leaders.

The information below will help those people toward the path of great awareness and fulfillment. Fulfillment in knowing that you will never fall for the lies again. When you get out of the Matrix there is no going back.

I spent close to a week in the company of Jon Rappoport back in 2002, he was over 70 (looked 50) back then, today he is still going strong and long may it continue. The world needs a lot more Jon Rappoports.

For the 15% I mentioned above this is for them, bookmark his home page. The rest can go along their merry way, please don't click on the link.

https://outsidetherealitymachine.wordpress.com/2016/04/29/media-covert-ops-and-the-alternate-universe/
To save me reading it all can you give me a summary? Que bono? Is it the Jews? Its always the Jews.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 16, 2016, 03:03:26 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 16, 2016, 09:09:00 AM
Quote from: Seamus on July 16, 2016, 12:05:55 AM
I would expect that about 5% of people that read this thread have waked up and know what the real truth is. Almost all will not post from fear of been ridiculed by those that have fallen hook, line and sinker for the propaganda of the mainstream media.  Hopefully another 10% are searching for the truth, realizing they are constantly lied to every day by our so called leaders.

The information below will help those people toward the path of great awareness and fulfillment. Fulfillment in knowing that you will never fall for the lies again. When you get out of the Matrix there is no going back.

I spent close to a week in the company of Jon Rappoport back in 2002, he was over 70 (looked 50) back then, today he is still going strong and long may it continue. The world needs a lot more Jon Rappoports.

For the 15% I mentioned above this is for them, bookmark his home page. The rest can go along their merry way, please don't click on the link.

https://outsidetherealitymachine.wordpress.com/2016/04/29/media-covert-ops-and-the-alternate-universe/
To save me reading it all can you give me a summary? Que bono? Is it the Jews? Its always the Jews.

There seems to be no mention of the Jews or Zionists. Seamus seems to be trying to fob us off with some mediocre conspiracy loon site. He is probably keeping the good stuff for himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2016, 08:25:14 PM

Booker - coming out of Newark??... Is it even possible that there are no skeletons in his closet? ;D

Newsom has always struck me as presidential potential, at least superficially. Is he really a contender?

Amazing how he was married to that Fox News one, but then look at James Carville and his wife.

Booker seems pretty clean so far. The fact that he chose to live in low-income neighbourhoods, plus nice human touches like running into a burning building to save someone, will all count in his favour. He hasn't been around long enough to get tainted by too many shabby deals.

Newsom's still young and has plenty of runway. When Jerry Brown is termed out Newsom will be hard to stop as governor of California in 2018. If he gets two terms as governor under his belt, keeps a consistent record on social justice (he was enabling same-sex marriage in San Francisco before it was cool), that takes him up to 2026. Then he'll have a few years to build a campaign for the 2028 presidential campaign. Since it's all executive experience he won't have a dodgy senate voting record to explain. The Repubs will have to have wised up and returned to reality-based politics by then if they want to stand a chance, or they could end up nationally like they are in California, i.e. as near as dammit extinct.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Different now execution and ambush style killings as seen again today in Louisiana and wait and see what mr Obama comes out with its a terrible tragedy but but but ,same with Isis no leadership a lame duck clown
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 17, 2016, 09:18:42 PM
You're welcome.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 17, 2016, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Different now execution and ambush style killings as seen again today in Louisiana and wait and see what mr Obama comes out with its a terrible tragedy but but but ,same with Isis no leadership a lame duck clown

Out of genuine interest, what should Obama be doing in terms of "leadership" on the recent police killings?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2016, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Different now execution and ambush style killings as seen again today in Louisiana and wait and see what mr Obama comes out with its a terrible tragedy but but but ,same with Isis no leadership a lame duck clown

when he goes to a memorial for the killed officers he should stop lecturing everyone about how rascist America is including the cops not the time or place. He talks about how we are flooding inner cities with guns ??? Who is flooding the inner cities with guns ,I'm not my neighbours are not the gangbangers in there want guns and they will get them one way or another.
There have been about 2000 shootings in his home constituency of Chicago this year and about 350 murders 90% black on black and I don't think I ever heard him comment on it because that's an awkward truth he doesn't want to address ,no crackers or cops to blame there.
All the crime ridden inner cities are democrat run so take some responsibility .
Lastly I recently heard him make a statement that a Latino woman only earns  50% of what a white male earns no context just a stupid line , he needs to remember he is the president of all America not black America or minority america and he's not a rabble rouser community leader but president of the usa
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 18, 2016, 12:00:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2016, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Different now execution and ambush style killings as seen again today in Louisiana and wait and see what mr Obama comes out with its a terrible tragedy but but but ,same with Isis no leadership a lame duck clown

when he goes to a memorial for the killed officers he should stop lecturing everyone about how rascist America is including the cops not the time or place. He talks about how we are flooding inner cities with guns ??? Who is flooding the inner cities with guns ,I'm not my neighbours are not the gangbangers in there want guns and they will get them one way or another.
There have been about 2000 shootings in his home constituency of Chicago this year and about 350 murders 90% black on black and I don't think I ever heard him comment on it because that's an awkward truth he doesn't want to address ,no crackers or cops to blame there.
All the crime ridden inner cities are democrat run so take some responsibility .
Lastly I recently heard him make a statement that a Latino woman only earns  50% of what a white male earns no context just a stupid line , he needs to remember he is the president of all America not black America or minority america and he's not a rabble rouser community leader but president of the usa

The question was what should he do, not what shouldn't he do.

But then you support the people who put the guns there in the first place. You also support the people who consistently block Obama's attempts to reduce the number and calibre of available guns. And you support arming every crackpot that might take a potshot at a cop and leaves them completely vulnerable and prone to shooting innocent people themselves.

The blood is on your own hands, not Obama's.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyronefan on July 18, 2016, 12:20:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 12:00:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2016, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Different now execution and ambush style killings as seen again today in Louisiana and wait and see what mr Obama comes out with its a terrible tragedy but but but ,same with Isis no leadership a lame duck clown

when he goes to a memorial for the killed officers he should stop lecturing everyone about how rascist America is including the cops not the time or place. He talks about how we are flooding inner cities with guns ??? Who is flooding the inner cities with guns ,I'm not my neighbours are not the gangbangers in there want guns and they will get them one way or another.
There have been about 2000 shootings in his home constituency of Chicago this year and about 350 murders 90% black on black and I don't think I ever heard him comment on it because that's an awkward truth he doesn't want to address ,no crackers or cops to blame there.
All the crime ridden inner cities are democrat run so take some responsibility .
Lastly I recently heard him make a statement that a Latino woman only earns  50% of what a white male earns no context just a stupid line , he needs to remember he is the president of all America not black America or minority america and he's not a rabble rouser community leader but president of the usa

The question was what should he do, not what shouldn't he do.

But then you support the people who put the guns there in the first place. You also support the people who consistently block Obama's attempts to reduce the number and calibre of available guns. And you support arming every crackpot that might take a potshot at a cop and leaves them completely vulnerable and prone to shooting innocent people themselves.

The blood is on your own hands, not Obama's.

And herein lies the problem. It is the other side's fault not our's
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 12:30:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 12:00:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2016, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Different now execution and ambush style killings as seen again today in Louisiana and wait and see what mr Obama comes out with its a terrible tragedy but but but ,same with Isis no leadership a lame duck clown

when he goes to a memorial for the killed officers he should stop lecturing everyone about how rascist America is including the cops not the time or place. He talks about how we are flooding inner cities with guns ??? Who is flooding the inner cities with guns ,I'm not my neighbours are not the gangbangers in there want guns and they will get them one way or another.
There have been about 2000 shootings in his home constituency of Chicago this year and about 350 murders 90% black on black and I don't think I ever heard him comment on it because that's an awkward truth he doesn't want to address ,no crackers or cops to blame there.
All the crime ridden inner cities are democrat run so take some responsibility .
Lastly I recently heard him make a statement that a Latino woman only earns  50% of what a white male earns no context just a stupid line , he needs to remember he is the president of all America not black America or minority america and he's not a rabble rouser community leader but president of the usa

The question was what should he do, not what shouldn't he do.

But then you support the people who put the guns there in the first place. You also support the people who consistently block Obama's attempts to reduce the number and calibre of available guns. And you support arming every crackpot that might take a potshot at a cop and leaves them completely vulnerable and prone to shooting innocent people themselves.

The blood is on your own hands, not Obama's.
the answer is he can do nothing because he's out of his depth ,he's a rabble rouser community organiser . I do not support everyone having guns especially high powered rifles but the guns are there and people who own them legally are not giving them up because they think rightly or wrongly that they will have no protection from criminals who own guns illegally . As I said most crime ridden places are all democrat run for years they have no solutions but the people there keep voting for them ,like turkeys voting for Christmas . The easy thing is blame racism for all problems in the black community while the democrats in charge get away with doing nothing to solve the problems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 18, 2016, 12:57:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 12:30:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 12:00:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2016, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Different now execution and ambush style killings as seen again today in Louisiana and wait and see what mr Obama comes out with its a terrible tragedy but but but ,same with Isis no leadership a lame duck clown

when he goes to a memorial for the killed officers he should stop lecturing everyone about how rascist America is including the cops not the time or place. He talks about how we are flooding inner cities with guns ??? Who is flooding the inner cities with guns ,I'm not my neighbours are not the gangbangers in there want guns and they will get them one way or another.
There have been about 2000 shootings in his home constituency of Chicago this year and about 350 murders 90% black on black and I don't think I ever heard him comment on it because that's an awkward truth he doesn't want to address ,no crackers or cops to blame there.
All the crime ridden inner cities are democrat run so take some responsibility .
Lastly I recently heard him make a statement that a Latino woman only earns  50% of what a white male earns no context just a stupid line , he needs to remember he is the president of all America not black America or minority america and he's not a rabble rouser community leader but president of the usa

The question was what should he do, not what shouldn't he do.

But then you support the people who put the guns there in the first place. You also support the people who consistently block Obama's attempts to reduce the number and calibre of available guns. And you support arming every crackpot that might take a potshot at a cop and leaves them completely vulnerable and prone to shooting innocent people themselves.

The blood is on your own hands, not Obama's.
the answer is he can do nothing because he's out of his depth ,he's a rabble rouser community organiser . I do not support everyone having guns especially high powered rifles but the guns are there and people who own them legally are not giving them up because they think rightly or wrongly that they will have no protection from criminals who own guns illegally . As I said most crime ridden places are all democrat run for years they have no solutions but the people there keep voting for them ,like turkeys voting for Christmas . The easy thing is blame racism for all problems in the black community while the democrats in charge get away with doing nothing to solve the problems.

But you keep giving them guns.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:06:12 AM
A good place to start would be going into crime ridden neighbourhoods and trying to get some sort of money for guns given up with no details of people taken or any follow up on guns taken .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 18, 2016, 01:21:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:06:12 AM
A good place to start would be going into crime ridden neighbourhoods and trying to get some sort of money for guns given up with no details of people taken or any follow up on guns taken .

A good place to start would be to stop voting for people who want to give every nutjob guns.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 18, 2016, 01:27:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2016, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Different now execution and ambush style killings as seen again today in Louisiana and wait and see what mr Obama comes out with its a terrible tragedy but but but ,same with Isis no leadership a lame duck clown

when he goes to a memorial for the killed officers he should stop lecturing everyone about how rascist America is including the cops not the time or place. He talks about how we are flooding inner cities with guns ??? Who is flooding the inner cities with guns ,I'm not my neighbours are not the gangbangers in there want guns and they will get them one way or another.
There have been about 2000 shootings in his home constituency of Chicago this year and about 350 murders 90% black on black and I don't think I ever heard him comment on it because that's an awkward truth he doesn't want to address ,no crackers or cops to blame there.
All the crime ridden inner cities are democrat run so take some responsibility .
Lastly I recently heard him make a statement that a Latino woman only earns  50% of what a white male earns no context just a stupid line , he needs to remember he is the president of all America not black America or minority america and he's not a rabble rouser community leader but president of the usa


You've never heard him comment on it because you didn't look or listen very hard or even do a cursory Google search.

An article from 18 months ago...

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/12/01/fox-news-pundit-cant-remember-any-of-these-time/201725 (http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/12/01/fox-news-pundit-cant-remember-any-of-these-time/201725)

Hereare statements he made THREE DAYS AGO...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/obama-murder-rate-african-american-community-whack/story?id=40592847 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/obama-murder-rate-african-american-community-whack/story?id=40592847)

From last October...

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/obama-police-chief-chicago-scapegoat-black-lives-matter/412717/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/obama-police-chief-chicago-scapegoat-black-lives-matter/412717/)

Finally, acknowledging a problem exists is not the same as assigning blame to one side.

And the speech he made at the memorial was superb. How the hell can a president go to a memorial for cops murdered by a racist, deranged black man in response to the killing of unarmed black men by cops and not talk about the issue? If you have specific points you disagree with, then bring them up.

As for the inner cities - guns are pretty much illegal in NYC. Still doesn't stop the streets being flooded by guns coming in from states where they are legal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 18, 2016, 01:30:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 12:30:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 12:00:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2016, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2016, 08:38:19 PM
One more thing:

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620863_1069643829793609_8634962500995406617_n.jpg?oh=4f80608a974f9ef19caee7b62ece9d81&oe=58277CDE)
Different now execution and ambush style killings as seen again today in Louisiana and wait and see what mr Obama comes out with its a terrible tragedy but but but ,same with Isis no leadership a lame duck clown

when he goes to a memorial for the killed officers he should stop lecturing everyone about how rascist America is including the cops not the time or place. He talks about how we are flooding inner cities with guns ??? Who is flooding the inner cities with guns ,I'm not my neighbours are not the gangbangers in there want guns and they will get them one way or another.
There have been about 2000 shootings in his home constituency of Chicago this year and about 350 murders 90% black on black and I don't think I ever heard him comment on it because that's an awkward truth he doesn't want to address ,no crackers or cops to blame there.
All the crime ridden inner cities are democrat run so take some responsibility .
Lastly I recently heard him make a statement that a Latino woman only earns  50% of what a white male earns no context just a stupid line , he needs to remember he is the president of all America not black America or minority america and he's not a rabble rouser community leader but president of the usa

The question was what should he do, not what shouldn't he do.

But then you support the people who put the guns there in the first place. You also support the people who consistently block Obama's attempts to reduce the number and calibre of available guns. And you support arming every crackpot that might take a potshot at a cop and leaves them completely vulnerable and prone to shooting innocent people themselves.

The blood is on your own hands, not Obama's.
the answer is he can do nothing because he's out of his depth ,he's a rabble rouser community organiser . I do not support everyone having guns especially high powered rifles but the guns are there and people who own them legally are not giving them up because they think rightly or wrongly that they will have no protection from criminals who own guns illegally . As I said most crime ridden places are all democrat run for years they have no solutions but the people there keep voting for them ,like turkeys voting for Christmas . The easy thing is blame racism for all problems in the black community while the democrats in charge get away with doing nothing to solve the problems.

Who is blaming racism for all the problems of black inner city neighbourhoods?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 18, 2016, 01:34:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:06:12 AM
A good place to start would be going into crime ridden neighbourhoods and trying to get some sort of money for guns given up with no details of people taken or any follow up on guns taken .

Don't you realize that lots of gun buyback programs like that already exist?

NRA didn't like one in Arizona and got legislation passed that made it illegal for such guns to be destroyed, instead requiring that they be sold to dealers for recirculation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:53:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 18, 2016, 01:34:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:06:12 AM
A good place to start would be going into crime ridden neighbourhoods and trying to get some sort of money for guns given up with no details of people taken or any follow up on guns taken .

Don't you realize that lots of gun buyback programs like that already exist?

NRA didn't like one in Arizona and got legislation passed that made it illegal for such guns to be destroyed, instead requiring that they be sold to dealers for recirculation.
of course I do and the good citizens are returning them in droves I'm sure .
Obama didn't have any problem selling guns to Mexican cartels which ended in a lot of murders on both sides of the border .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 18, 2016, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:53:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 18, 2016, 01:34:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:06:12 AM
A good place to start would be going into crime ridden neighbourhoods and trying to get some sort of money for guns given up with no details of people taken or any follow up on guns taken .

Don't you realize that lots of gun buyback programs like that already exist?

NRA didn't like one in Arizona and got legislation passed that made it illegal for such guns to be destroyed, instead requiring that they be sold to dealers for recirculation.
of course I do and the good citizens are returning them in droves I'm sure .

Is that sarcasm?

If so, why advocate for the program in the first place?

Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:53:13 AM
Obama didn't have any problem selling guns to Mexican cartels which ended in a lot of murders on both sides of the border .

You do realize "gun walking", the attempt to trace the illegal gun trade around the border which culminated in the Fast and Furious operation, started under the Bush administration in 2006?

Misguided/dumb it may have been in that people died (albeit, I doubt if the cartels would have short of guns anyway) and none of the big wigs they were after were caught, only relatively minor characters, but the political appointees on both sides of the aisle approved the respective operations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2016, 02:23:13 AM
I can't believe the gun nuts are still banging on with the Chicago fallacy.

http://www.forasach.ie/2016/01/25/the-gun-lobbys-chicago-fallacy/ (http://www.forasach.ie/2016/01/25/the-gun-lobbys-chicago-fallacy/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 03:30:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 18, 2016, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:53:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 18, 2016, 01:34:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:06:12 AM
A good place to start would be going into crime ridden neighbourhoods and trying to get some sort of money for guns given up with no details of people taken or any follow up on guns taken .

Don't you realize that lots of gun buyback programs like that already exist?

NRA didn't like one in Arizona and got legislation passed that made it illegal for such guns to be destroyed, instead requiring that they be sold to dealers for recirculation.
of course I do and the good citizens are returning them in droves I'm sure .

Is that sarcasm?

If so, why advocate for the program in the first place?

Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:53:13 AM
Obama didn't have any problem selling guns to Mexican cartels which ended in a lot of murders on both sides of the border .

You do realize "gun walking", the attempt to trace the illegal gun trade around the border which culminated in the Fast and Furious operation, started under the Bush administration in 2006?

Misguided/dumb it may have been in that people died (albeit, I doubt if the cartels would have short of guns anyway) and none of the big wigs they were after were caught, only relatively minor characters, but the political appointees on both sides of the aisle approved the respective operations.
[/quotes and Mr Obama agreed to continue such a program tut tut.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on July 18, 2016, 04:06:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 18, 2016, 02:12:37 AM



Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:53:13 AM
Obama didn't have any problem selling guns to Mexican cartels which ended in a lot of murders on both sides of the border .

You do realize "gun walking", the attempt to trace the illegal gun trade around the border which culminated in the Fast and Furious operation, started under the Bush administration in 2006?



Proving there is no difference between the two parties. One party in the disguise of two
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 18, 2016, 11:48:37 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/14/politics/cleveland-convention-guns-event-zone/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/14/politics/cleveland-convention-guns-event-zone/)

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2016/images/07/13/rnc-whats-allowed-story.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 18, 2016, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 03:30:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 18, 2016, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:53:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 18, 2016, 01:34:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:06:12 AM
A good place to start would be going into crime ridden neighbourhoods and trying to get some sort of money for guns given up with no details of people taken or any follow up on guns taken .

Don't you realize that lots of gun buyback programs like that already exist?

NRA didn't like one in Arizona and got legislation passed that made it illegal for such guns to be destroyed, instead requiring that they be sold to dealers for recirculation.
of course I do and the good citizens are returning them in droves I'm sure .

Is that sarcasm?

If so, why advocate for the program in the first place?

Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 01:53:13 AM
Obama didn't have any problem selling guns to Mexican cartels which ended in a lot of murders on both sides of the border .

You do realize "gun walking", the attempt to trace the illegal gun trade around the border which culminated in the Fast and Furious operation, started under the Bush administration in 2006?

Misguided/dumb it may have been in that people died (albeit, I doubt if the cartels would have short of guns anyway) and none of the big wigs they were after were caught, only relatively minor characters, but the political appointees on both sides of the aisle approved the respective operations.
and Mr Obama agreed to continue such a program tut tut.

Fair enough, his justice department agreed to continue it and it went badly, but obviously a lot of people across the political spectrum agreed it might be a good way to infiltrate these cartels and rings and let these career ATF boys work away.

Its hardly a partisan issue, an example of opposed policy and philosophy.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 18, 2016, 02:13:25 PM
I enjoyed this . . . seriously when is the joke going to finish?

http://gawker.com/all-the-most-excruciating-moments-from-the-trump-pence-1783831489

I feel sorry for Pence because he can't get a word in edgeways and he looks like somebody lured him into the VP gig with sweets and chocolate but he's starting to realise it's all shit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 18, 2016, 02:40:28 PM
A compendium listing Trumps's unsuitability for his new job:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 18, 2016, 02:56:34 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 18, 2016, 02:40:28 PM
A compendium listing Trumps's unsuitability for his new job:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html)

The "doesn't pay his bills" one is well known in the NYC/NJ area.

I worked with a consulting company about ten years ago who had contracts with various real estate companies. This was at the height of The Apprentice hype, when Trump really was a media star viewed favourably by the public. Given his real estate holdings in NYC, I asked one day whether the company had ever done work for him, and they had, but they said they'd never do it again, as he stiffed them when it came time to pay. And its a story you hear over and over again. What are small companies going to do, with his throngs of lawyers able to tie everyone up in court and outlast them financially?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 18, 2016, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 18, 2016, 02:56:34 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 18, 2016, 02:40:28 PM
A compendium listing Trumps's unsuitability for his new job:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html)

The "doesn't pay his bills" one is well known in the NYC/NJ area.

I worked with a consulting company about ten years ago who had contracts with various real estate companies. This was at the height of The Apprentice hype, when Trump really was a media star viewed favourably by the public. Given his real estate holdings in NYC, I asked one day whether the company had ever done work for him, and they had, but they said they'd never do it again, as he stiffed them when it came time to pay. And its a story you hear over and over again. What are small companies going to do, with his throngs of lawyers able to tie everyone up in court and outlast them financially?

He has suggested the US should renegotiate (default) its debt. If anyone thought the 2008 Financial Crisis was bad, imagine that crash happening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 18, 2016, 05:11:45 PM
Is there any chance at all of a challenge to Trump at the RNC?? Please any chance? Anything or anybody at all would do!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 18, 2016, 07:23:50 PM
Nice going, Paul Ryan!  Shows up at an RNC breakfast in Cleveland and waves a Pittsburgh Steelers' "Terrible Towel" at the podium.  Ah, sure how would he know.  He only went to college in Ohio (Miami U. near Cincy).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 19, 2016, 01:55:58 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 18, 2016, 02:40:28 PM
A compendium listing Trumps's unsuitability for his new job:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html)

He never once said all Mexicans are rapists, there are 3000 plus reasons your hero clinton is unfit to be president, liberals are killing America and you are bought and paid for thanks to your union affiliation, by the way, tell the truth, don't post lies and pass them,off as truth, you liberal types have an aversion to the truth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 19, 2016, 02:44:20 AM
Stew, first Clinton is not my hero, but matched against a proto-fascist, she is the only viable choice.  Your only response to the list is that Trump did not say the word ALL! But he did say that Mexico was shipping in racists.   Do you think that any items on the list are untrue.   Please indicate which.  What are the thousands of things Clinton has done?  And, BTW, I've never actually been a union member.  Even if you despise Clinton, you can't seriously consider Trump a desirable candidate.  He is ignorant, both rude and unknowing, and, come on, he's going to build a feckin wall, deport 11,000,000 Mexicans and exclude an entire religion. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 19, 2016, 02:47:36 AM
Quote from: stew on July 19, 2016, 01:55:58 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 18, 2016, 02:40:28 PM
A compendium listing Trumps's unsuitability for his new job:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html)

He never once said all Mexicans are rapists, there are 3000 plus reasons your hero clinton is unfit to be president, liberals are killing America and you are bought and paid for thanks to your union affiliation, by the way, tell the truth, don't post lies and pass them,off as truth, you liberal types have an aversion to the truth.

Who says Trump said "all Mexicans are rapists"?

What lies are we dishonest liberals telling?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 19, 2016, 03:29:27 AM
I'd love to know who from Queen gave permission for Trump to use "We are the champions" as his entry music at the RNC...

edit- nobody
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/queens-brian-may-denies-donald-trump-usage-of-we-are-the-champions-20160608
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 19, 2016, 03:34:48 AM
also this:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/internssowhite
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on July 19, 2016, 08:11:58 AM
"He will never give up. And most importantly, he will never let you down." Melania on Trump.

Some say she's channeling Rick Astley. ;) ;) ;) ;)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cnsya8SUEAApd9I.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 19, 2016, 02:24:55 PM
But she copied and pasted it all on her own isn't she great?!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 19, 2016, 03:19:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 19, 2016, 02:44:20 AM
Stew, first Clinton is not my hero, but matched against a proto-fascist, she is the only viable choice.  Your only response to the list is that Trump did not say the word ALL! But he did say that Mexico was shipping in racists.   Do you think that any items on the list are untrue.   Please indicate which.  What are the thousands of things Clinton has done?  And, BTW, I've never actually been a union member.  Even if you despise Clinton, you can't seriously consider Trump a desirable candidate.  He is ignorant, both rude and unknowing, and, come on, he's going to build a feckin wall, deport 11,000,000 Mexicans and exclude an entire religion.

Liar, the man has voted for your crowd for decades, follow the money oraisteach.

I have no gra for Trump but killory is the most repugnant, obnoxious piece of shite ever to run for president, both are crap but Hillary is an even more odious piece of shite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2016, 06:42:04 PM
Quote from: stew on July 19, 2016, 03:19:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 19, 2016, 02:44:20 AM
Stew, first Clinton is not my hero, but matched against a proto-fascist, she is the only viable choice.  Your only response to the list is that Trump did not say the word ALL! But he did say that Mexico was shipping in racists.   Do you think that any items on the list are untrue.   Please indicate which.  What are the thousands of things Clinton has done?  And, BTW, I've never actually been a union member.  Even if you despise Clinton, you can't seriously consider Trump a desirable candidate.  He is ignorant, both rude and unknowing, and, come on, he's going to build a feckin wall, deport 11,000,000 Mexicans and exclude an entire religion.

Liar, the man has voted for your crowd for decades, follow the money oraisteach.

I have no gra for Trump but killory is the most repugnant, obnoxious piece of shite ever to run for president, both are crap but Hillary is an even more odious piece of shite.
Nixon was worse, Stew
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:19:43 PM
Part of me hope Trump wins. Just to to watch Darwin in action.

But the world would be such a terrible place in 4 years, it wouldn't be worth it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on July 19, 2016, 09:13:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:19:43 PM
Part of me hope Trump wins. Just to to watch Darwin in action.

But the world would be such a terrible place in 4 years, it wouldn't be worth it.

Not unlike here, you'd have Vermont, and Massachusetts trying to join Canada. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 19, 2016, 09:31:22 PM
This is the Republican response to Trumpette's blatant plagerism:

There's no cribbing of Michelle Obama's speech," said Paul Manafort, Mr Trump's campaign manager.
"I mean, this is, once again, an example of when a woman threatens Hillary Clinton, how she seeks out to demean her and take her down,'' he added.

It is Stew to a 'T'! Blame Hillary for everything. 😃😃
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 19, 2016, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 09:31:22 PM
This is the Republican response to Trumpette's blatant plagerism:

There's no cribbing of Michelle Obama's speech," said Paul Manafort, Mr Trump's campaign manager.
"I mean, this is, once again, an example of when a woman threatens Hillary Clinton, how she seeks out to demean her and take her down,'' he added.

It is Stew to a 'T'! Blame Hillary for everything. 😃😃

Manafort is a real piece of work himself, even without the ridiculous toupe/Botox appearance.

Especially for a campaign that is always on about the Clinton Foundation and dodgy foreign ties.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on July 20, 2016, 08:16:32 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-20/maths-on-melania-trump-speech/7643658 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-20/maths-on-melania-trump-speech/7643658)

Melania Trump: Astrophysicist calculates there was one in 87 billion chance speech was not plagiarised
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2016, 08:31:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 09:31:22 PM
This is the Republican response to Trumpette's blatant plagerism:

There's no cribbing of Michelle Obama's speech," said Paul Manafort, Mr Trump's campaign manager.
"I mean, this is, once again, an example of when a woman threatens Hillary Clinton, how she seeks out to demean her and take her down,'' he added.

It is Stew to a 'T'! Blame Hillary for everything. 😃😃
that is for the Trump Base.  Straight out if the Fox school.of journalistic integrity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on July 20, 2016, 11:50:36 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnzUGkHWYAADpBS.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 20, 2016, 01:36:23 PM
Apparently Ben Carson was comparing Hillary to Lucifer in his address last night.

That and Stew's Killery stuff - the GOP need to double down on that kind of rhetoric.

A winning strategy! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 20, 2016, 03:53:32 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/18/checking-patricia-smiths-claims-about-clinton-and-/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/18/checking-patricia-smiths-claims-about-clinton-and-/)

Among other mothers, Trump had various mothers of people who were killed in car accidents by unlicensed immigrants. This, obviously, is absolutely ok 'tasteless political manoeuvring' because we know that all immigrants are bad.

Isn't that right immigrants?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2016, 04:58:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 20, 2016, 03:53:32 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/18/checking-patricia-smiths-claims-about-clinton-and-/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/18/checking-patricia-smiths-claims-about-clinton-and-/)

Among other mothers, Trump had various mothers of people who were killed in car accidents by unlicensed immigrants. This, obviously, is absolutely ok 'tasteless political manoeuvring' because we know that all immigrants are bad.

Isn't that right immigrants?
Trump would have been  a Nazi in the 40s. He is the Kochs baby
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 20, 2016, 05:01:01 PM
His grandfather was an immigrant from Germany
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 20, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
It has gone beyond the ridiculous:

https://youtu.be/jct1zDtm4JE (https://youtu.be/jct1zDtm4JE)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2016, 05:19:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 20, 2016, 01:36:23 PM
Apparently Ben Carson was comparing Hillary to Lucifer in his address last night.

That and Stew's Killery stuff - the GOP need to double down on that kind of rhetoric.

A winning strategy! ;D
yeah. Women will fall for it en masse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on July 20, 2016, 06:51:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 20, 2016, 03:53:32 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/18/checking-patricia-smiths-claims-about-clinton-and-/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/18/checking-patricia-smiths-claims-about-clinton-and-/)

Among other mothers, Trump had various mothers of people who were killed in car accidents by unlicensed immigrants. This, obviously, is absolutely ok 'tasteless political manoeuvring' because we know that all immigrants are bad.

Isn't that right immigrants?
It was pure hatred and absolutely tasteless from him.  The same political maneuvering  I detest coming up at the DNC - I can't align with either party at all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Orior on July 20, 2016, 06:56:02 PM
Put your money on Trump. The vast majority of middle ground want change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 20, 2016, 07:35:32 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 20, 2016, 06:51:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 20, 2016, 03:53:32 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/18/checking-patricia-smiths-claims-about-clinton-and-/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/18/checking-patricia-smiths-claims-about-clinton-and-/)

Among other mothers, Trump had various mothers of people who were killed in car accidents by unlicensed immigrants. This, obviously, is absolutely ok 'tasteless political manoeuvring' because we know that all immigrants are bad.

Isn't that right immigrants?
It was pure hatred and absolutely tasteless from him.  The same political maneuvering  I detest coming up at the DNC - I can't align with either party at all

This is a problem alright.

The slimey, dislikable, career politician..........or the complete nutcase.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2016, 07:52:53 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 20, 2016, 06:56:02 PM
Put your money on Trump. The vast majority of middle ground want change.
women and Latinos won't vote for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on July 21, 2016, 03:00:38 PM
Interesting piece on the VP nominee
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/mike-pence-religion.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-3&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/mike-pence-religion.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-3&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on July 21, 2016, 03:07:57 PM
I read a very good article about Trump's mother - can't remember did someone link to it from here or not. Very interesting story - she was a native Gaelic speaker and Donald might have a cúpla focal himself. This wasn't the article I read but you'll get the gist

http://www.thenational.scot/news/an-inconvenient-truth-donald-trumps-scottish-mother-was-a-low-earning-migrant.17822

Followed by

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 21, 2016, 03:29:54 PM
Big uproar at the RNC last night when Ted Cruz would not endorse Trump and called for people to "vote their conscience".

I don't like Cruz's politics, and he's supposed to be a nasty piece of work (a bipartisan consensus, apparently), but how the f**k do people expect him to endorse Trump after his insults of Cruz's wife and the ludicrous promotion of the "story" that Cruz senior was involved with Lee Harvey Oswald and the JFK assassination?

A bit dumb of Trump, actually, to have Cruz speak, as it reminds people of his ludicrous insults and conspiracy theorizing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on July 21, 2016, 04:47:55 PM
I was reading though different stories on Trump's NYT interview on his stance on NATO etc and in a few clicks came across this piece of work
https://twitter.com/finlander_ (https://twitter.com/finlander_)

Just shows you how dangerous language is and the type of people who are canvassing for him 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on July 21, 2016, 07:35:03 PM
Jon Snow is making an absolute tit of Rudy Giuliani on Channel 4 news. An embarrassing shadow of the man who led New York after 9/11.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 21, 2016, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: Declan on July 21, 2016, 04:47:55 PM
I was reading though different stories on Trump's NYT interview on his stance on NATO etc and in a few clicks came across this piece of work
https://twitter.com/finlander_ (https://twitter.com/finlander_)

Just shows you how dangerous language is and the type of people who are canvassing for him
I think there are many more like him under the rock of the Republican Party
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 21, 2016, 11:53:39 PM
I think there are some medical issues at play there. Should donate the brain to medical science
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on July 22, 2016, 09:12:13 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn7ZI3EVIAAI7sJ.jpg:large)

From Andrew Sullivan a well known conservative blogger

Why Jon Stewart is as good a political satirist that has been around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNiqpBNE9ik (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNiqpBNE9ik)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2016, 10:28:57 AM
I think Trump is like Napoleon. He also had small hands
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 23, 2016, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: Declan on July 22, 2016, 09:12:13 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn7ZI3EVIAAI7sJ.jpg:large)

From Andrew Sullivan a well known conservative blogger

Why Jon Stewart is as good a political satirist that has been around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNiqpBNE9ik (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNiqpBNE9ik)

Stewart is phenomenal that was great!! I like Trevor Noah but he's got a long way to go to be that good!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 24, 2016, 01:06:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 22, 2016, 10:28:57 AM
I think Trump is like Napoleon. He also had small hands

Napoleon is much maligned by history. On domestic policy he was all about good governance, investment in infrastructure etc.. Not just a case of  "he fxshed de road" but he spent all of his spare time reading up on policy matters to make sure he was equipped to make the best decisions possible. He took his job seriously.  For detailed policy he left matters to a parliament that he presided over. It was in foreign policy that he went off the rails, always eager to conquer whatever piece of territory touched his, and that was his downfall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 24, 2016, 07:12:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 24, 2016, 01:06:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 22, 2016, 10:28:57 AM
I think Trump is like Napoleon. He also had small hands

Napoleon is much maligned by history. On domestic policy he was all about good governance, investment in infrastructure etc.. Not just a case of  "he fxshed de road" but he spent all of his spare time reading up on policy matters to make sure he was equipped to make the best decisions possible. He took his job seriously.  For detailed policy he left matters to a parliament that he presided over. It was in foreign policy that he went off the rails, always eager to conquer whatever piece of territory touched his, and that was his downfall.
I think Trump could break the 2 party system and the constitution. Napoléon was similar . He destroyed the ancien régime and basically ended the middle ages in France. All the medieval torture went out the window.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on July 24, 2016, 10:55:24 AM
Trump could bring the middle ages to the US, despotic leaders and the rack.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Olly on July 24, 2016, 08:05:22 PM
Is anyone else secretly attracted to Clinton and/or Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on July 24, 2016, 09:07:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 24, 2016, 01:06:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 22, 2016, 10:28:57 AM
I think Trump is like Napoleon. He also had small hands

Napoleon is much maligned by history. On domestic policy he was all about good governance, investment in infrastructure etc.. Not just a case of  "he fxshed de road" but he spent all of his spare time reading up on policy matters to make sure he was equipped to make the best decisions possible. He took his job seriously.  For detailed policy he left matters to a parliament that he presided over. It was in foreign policy that he went off the rails, always eager to conquer whatever piece of territory touched his, and that was his downfall.
There was a great BBC documentary on Napoleon recently. Mostly positive & sympathetic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Orior on July 24, 2016, 09:29:25 PM
Quote from: Olly on July 24, 2016, 08:05:22 PM
Is anyone else secretly attracted to Clinton and/or Trump?

Trump's daughter gets two woofs from me. Hilary left the milf category many years ago, you sick f***
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 24, 2016, 10:55:30 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 24, 2016, 09:29:25 PM
Quote from: Olly on July 24, 2016, 08:05:22 PM
Is anyone else secretly attracted to Clinton and/or Trump?

Trump's daughter gets two woofs from me. Hilary left the milf category many years ago, you sick f***

Rule 1!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 25, 2016, 08:13:37 AM
Wassermann schultz has resigned as head of the DNC following the email leak that showed she is no better than the chair of an FF cu mann.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 25, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.

You're turning into a parody stew.

Evolving into Tyrone's Own.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on July 25, 2016, 11:34:58 AM

Stew - i'm not clear here - who are you supporting in the election and why?

Genuine question - i'm actually interested how anyone can come to a reasoned position of supporting wither of these two.

As an add on, i'm wondering why Clinton deserves more abuse than Trump. Both seem equally loathsome for different reasons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on July 25, 2016, 12:39:56 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.

Is that funnier than Republicans protesting against other Republicans? I'm all laughed out after Cleveland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 25, 2016, 11:34:58 AM

Stew - i'm not clear here - who are you supporting in the election and why?

Genuine question - i'm actually interested how anyone can come to a reasoned position of supporting wither of these two.

As an add on, i'm wondering why Clinton deserves more abuse than Trump. Both seem equally loathsome for different reasons.

I think both are despicable and would abstain if  had a vote, I left Ireland a liberal and came back a conservative, the democrat party disgust me for many reasons, corruption not the least of them.

The US have given the world two horrible pieces of shite from which one gets to be President, it is unfathomable to me that the states cannot come up with better candidates than this, well it was until it turned out the Bern ( Who I wanted to win) got cheated by his own party but hey, Clinton knows nothing about that.

As for Trump, he never was a republican and by his own words he has no time for the party, the left wins no matter which of these two c***ts gets elected and the republicans get exactly what they deserve.

Killory is reeling but the sheep on here are hoping their hero can still win, she probably will and when that happens America is completely fucked, if the sheep want that cow running the place they are welcome to her, I wouldn't go near the place until she is out of office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 25, 2016, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 25, 2016, 11:34:58 AM

Stew - i'm not clear here - who are you supporting in the election and why?

Genuine question - i'm actually interested how anyone can come to a reasoned position of supporting wither of these two.

As an add on, i'm wondering why Clinton deserves more abuse than Trump. Both seem equally loathsome for different reasons.
neither of them are decent

I think both are despicable and would abstain if  had a vote, I left Ireland a liberal and came back a conservative, the democrat party disgust me for many reasons, corruption not the least of them.

The US have given the world two horrible pieces of shite from which one gets to be President, it is unfathomable to me that the states cannot come up with better candidates than this, well it was until it turned out the Bern ( Who I wanted to win) got cheated by his own party but hey, Clinton knows nothing about that.

As for Trump, he never was a republican and by his own words he has no time for the party, the left wins no matter which of these two c***ts gets elected and the republicans get exactly what they deserve.

Killory is reeling but the sheep on here are hoping their hero can still win, she probably will and when that happens America is completely fucked, if the sheep want that cow running the place they are welcome to her, I wouldn't go near the place until she is out of office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 01:18:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 25, 2016, 12:39:56 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.

Is that funnier than Republicans protesting against other Republicans? I'm all laughed out after Cleveland.

Why yes it is, it is funnier because the stinking liberals have been found out for what they are, a gaggle of fawning sheep drooling over a despicable bitch that has bought them and paid for them to be their leader.

Lock the aul **** up, throw Bernie at the republicans and let socialism have a rattle at the thing, cant be any worse than the maggot running the place now ffs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 01:50:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 25, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.

You're turning into a parody stew.

Evolving into Tyrone's Own.


Better him than someone like yourself, you liberals can let anything slide, there was a decent man running for president, the people voted and your lot could not contain themselves and they cheated in order to get one of the most despicable bastards on earth the dem ticket.

A lot of Bernie supporters will never vote for Clinton, she is filthy and it seems some liberals are not willing to vote for Clinton based on the fact she is a lying, cheating sack of shite!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on July 25, 2016, 01:58:30 PM
Wow, welcome to misogyny 101 with Stew.

I wonder why you live out there if the political choices are so despicable. Who are you going to vote for Stew, if you don't mind me asking?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 25, 2016, 02:15:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 25, 2016, 12:39:56 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.

Is that funnier than Republicans protesting against other Republicans? I'm all laughed out after Cleveland.

If you thought last week was a shit show, I predict it will pale in insignificance compared to what's unfolding in Phillie......Bernie supporters are apoplectic with how their guy has been treated
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 25, 2016, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 01:50:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 25, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.

You're turning into a parody stew.

Evolving into Tyrone's Own.


Better him than someone like yourself, you liberals can let anything slide, there was a decent man running for president, the people voted and your lot could not contain themselves and they cheated in order to get one of the most despicable b**tards on earth the dem ticket.

A lot of Bernie supporters will never vote for Clinton, she is filthy and it seems some liberals are not willing to vote for Clinton based on the fact she is a lying, cheating sack of shite!

Tell us stew, what have I, as a stinking liberal, let slide?

What have I, as someone who has f**k all to do with the DNC, got to do with the stuff that came out at the weekend?

That nonsense aside, I was talking about your incoherent, babbling, ranting posts of late.

You used to be fairly measured and thoughtful, most of the time, in your contributions, an honest debater. Now you mostly just repeat whatever nonsense and paranoid memes that have been doing the rounds on Facebook or chain emails, all the way down to the childish labels.

It's not like this place couldn't do with some sensible, intelligent, contributions from the right. Whitey supplies a bit, Iceman does as well on social issues. That's about it. It's a shame.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2016, 02:15:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 25, 2016, 12:39:56 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.

Is that funnier than Republicans protesting against other Republicans? I'm all laughed out after Cleveland.

If you thought last week was a shit show, I predict it will pale in insignificance compared to what's unfolding in Phillie......Bernie supporters are apoplectic with how their guy has been treated

Isn't it marvellous, both parties are fractured,  like labor and the hateful Tories.

They have every right to be beside themselves, Clintons minnions have destroyed democracy, how anyone on here could support that woman is beyond me.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 25, 2016, 02:27:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2016, 02:15:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 25, 2016, 12:39:56 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.

Is that funnier than Republicans protesting against other Republicans? I'm all laughed out after Cleveland.

If you thought last week was a shit show, I predict it will pale in insignificance compared to what's unfolding in Phillie......Bernie supporters are apoplectic with how their guy has been treated

So what exactly has taken place?

I get that the DNC favoured Hillary ( the whole purpose of super delegates is to let the powers that be exert some control over candidate selection and not end up with candidates who will suffer landslide losses a la 1972 and 1980), but what, if anything, was done to actively thwart Sanders?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 02:36:41 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 25, 2016, 01:58:30 PM
Wow, welcome to misogyny 101 with Stew.

I wonder why you live out there if the political choices are so despicable. Who are you going to vote for Stew, if you don't mind me asking?

I don't live out there, that said I am supposed to take up my old post in Madison, Wisconsin in December when an old colleague retires.

As for the rest, asked and answered.78
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 25, 2016, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 01:50:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 25, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Hahahabahshahahahshahahahahhaha

Keep a suckin on the Clinton teat fellers, your hero is rattled but worry not, the Bern has rolled over and took it up the arse from strapon.

I am fascinated to watch this convention, liberal protests against other liberals, great theatre altogether.

You're turning into a parody stew.

Evolving into Tyrone's Own.


Better him than someone like yourself, you liberals can let anything slide, there was a decent man running for president, the people voted and your lot could not contain themselves and they cheated in order to get one of the most despicable b**tards on earth the dem ticket.

A lot of Bernie supporters will never vote for Clinton, she is filthy and it seems some liberals are not willing to vote for Clinton based on the fact she is a lying, cheating sack of shite!

Tell us stew, what have I, as a stinking liberal, let slide?

What have I, as someone who has f**k all to do with the DNC, got to do with the stuff that came out at the weekend?

That nonsense aside, I was talking about your incoherent, babbling, ranting posts of late.

You used to be fairly measured and thoughtful, most of the time, in your contributions, an honest debater. Now you mostly just repeat whatever nonsense and paranoid memes that have been doing the rounds on Facebook or chain emails, all the way down to the childish labels.

It's not like this place couldn't do with some sensible, intelligent, contributions from the right. Whitey supplies a bit, Iceman does as well on social issues. That's about it. It's a shame.


You are not a stinking liberal, I was referring to the arseholes who got caught doing Clinton's bidding, you know, the ones that made sure Saunders was not getting the nod.

Most of my friends are liberals, their viewpoint is just as valid as mine, although we disagree on many points I respect their point of view, that said Clinton is the worst nominee in history, as is Drumpf.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 25, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
I wouldn't vote for either of them. I think the 2 party system has run its course when a guy the constitution was designed to prevent represents the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 25, 2016, 05:50:34 PM
I wonder what Stew and co would say about Clinton if she had 5 children by 3 different men?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 25, 2016, 05:56:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 05:50:34 PM
I wonder what Stew and co would say about Clinton if she had 5 children by 3 different men?
Or if she was a warmonger.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 05:50:34 PM
I wonder what Stew and co would say about Clinton if she had 5 children by 3 different men?

I would say nothing because that has nothing to do with anything, does that answer your question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 05:50:34 PM
I wonder what Stew and co would say about Clinton if she had 5 children by 3 different men?

I would say nothing because that has nothing to do with anything, does that answer your question.

Indeed, most of your criticisms of her have 'nothing to do with anything', so yes, it does answer it.  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 05:50:34 PM
I wonder what Stew and co would say about Clinton if she had 5 children by 3 different men?

I would say nothing because that has nothing to do with anything, does that answer your question.

Indeed, most of your criticisms of her have 'nothing to do with anything', so yes, it does answer it.  ;D

You are one blinkered moron.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:08:02 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 05:50:34 PM
I wonder what Stew and co would say about Clinton if she had 5 children by 3 different men?

I would say nothing because that has nothing to do with anything, does that answer your question.

Indeed, most of your criticisms of her have 'nothing to do with anything', so yes, it does answer it.  ;D

You are one blinkered moron.

Of course I am, and your inspired insulting everyone makes you a visionary genius.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:19:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:08:02 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 05:50:34 PM
I wonder what Stew and co would say about Clinton if she had 5 children by 3 different men?

I would say nothing because that has nothing to do with anything, does that answer your question.

Indeed, most of your criticisms of her have 'nothing to do with anything', so yes, it does answer it.  ;D

You are one blinkered moron.

Of course I am, and your inspired insulting everyone makes you a visionary genius.

I don't do that but don't let the truth get in the way, of you think your hero is squeaky clean you need your head examined.

I have been attacked in here for years, more to come by the way from wikileaks.7
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
I wouldn't vote for either of them. I think the 2 party system has run its course when a guy the constitution was designed to prevent represents the GOP.

Aye but he is a Democrat the same boy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:31:51 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:19:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:08:02 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 05:50:34 PM
I wonder what Stew and co would say about Clinton if she had 5 children by 3 different men?

I would say nothing because that has nothing to do with anything, does that answer your question.

Indeed, most of your criticisms of her have 'nothing to do with anything', so yes, it does answer it.  ;D

You are one blinkered moron.

Of course I am, and your inspired insulting everyone makes you a visionary genius.

I don't do that but don't let the truth get in the way, of you think your hero is squeaky clean you need your head examined.

I have been attacked in here for years, more to come by the way from wikileaks.7

Can you show me one single serious post, by any poster, who said she was 'squeaky clean'?

And as for your insulting, do you ever read your posts?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 25, 2016, 08:40:23 PM
Last weeks chants of "lock her up" has the Liberal media all in an uproar

Funny that there wasnt too much uproar yesterday when Bernies supporters were chanting the exact same words


This is going to be a fun week.......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2016, 08:40:23 PM
Last weeks chants of "lock her up" has the Liberal media all in an uproar

Funny that there wasnt too much uproar yesterday when Bernies supporters were chanting the exact same words


This is going to be a fun week.......

Trump fans were actually shouting 'knock her up'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 25, 2016, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2016, 08:40:23 PM
Last weeks chants of "lock her up" has the Liberal media all in an uproar

Funny that there wasnt too much uproar yesterday when Bernies supporters were chanting the exact same words


This is going to be a fun week.......

Trump fans were actually shouting 'knock her up'.

LOL.....you do know that there are very strong rumours that she swings the other way?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 25, 2016, 09:11:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2016, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2016, 08:40:23 PM
Last weeks chants of "lock her up" has the Liberal media all in an uproar

Funny that there wasnt too much uproar yesterday when Bernies supporters were chanting the exact same words


This is going to be a fun week.......

Trump fans were actually shouting 'knock her up'.

LOL.....you do know that there are very strong rumours that she swings the other way?

Of course she does.  ;D

I think she eats NRA members in her spare time too.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 25, 2016, 09:19:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 09:11:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2016, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2016, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2016, 08:40:23 PM
Last weeks chants of "lock her up" has the Liberal media all in an uproar

Funny that there wasnt too much uproar yesterday when Bernies supporters were chanting the exact same words


This is going to be a fun week.......

Trump fans were actually shouting 'knock her up'.

LOL.....you do know that there are very strong rumours that she swings the other way?

Of course she does.  ;D

I think she eats NRA members in her spare time too.

Eats them out (if they're female) is more likely
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on July 25, 2016, 10:52:26 PM

Documentary about trump and this campaign started on Sky Atlantic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 01:55:39 AM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
I wouldn't vote for either of them. I think the 2 party system has run its course when a guy the constitution was designed to prevent represents the GOP.

Aye but he is a Democrat the same boy

Think its time to give that one up stew FFS.

Unless you're proposing he is going to turn around if elected and nominate a liberal to replace Scalia, veto the 75th vote to repeal Obamacare and apologize to muslims and Mexicans and all the rest of the groups and people he has demonized to win the working class white vote? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on July 26, 2016, 02:11:15 AM
Powerful speech there by Anastasia Somoza on the opening night of the Democrat Convention.
And her mom is from Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 26, 2016, 02:28:16 AM
The Bernie-or-bust crowd is getting embarrassing at this point. Some scenes earlier looked like the shouting down of Nicolae Ceaușescu. They're going to have to turn up the volume on the speakers if Hillary's acceptance speech is to be heard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 26, 2016, 02:43:17 AM
Corey Booker hitting it out of the park.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on July 26, 2016, 03:14:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 26, 2016, 02:43:17 AM
Corey Booker hitting it out of the park.

That speech will be remembered for a LONG TIME!!  EPIC!!

If that guy was a coach/manager he could get a team to run through brick walls.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.

Trump may have a better name calling approach but nothing concrete behind it. Will be interesting to see how he approaches any fact based allegations. Or doesn't...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 26, 2016, 03:42:42 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.


They will dismiss the whole speech with stupid comments about Pocahontas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 26, 2016, 03:55:24 AM
Booker/Newsom 2024.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 04:19:15 AM
Obama 2024
Trending after Michelle's speech
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:05:01 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.

Trump may have a better name calling approach but nothing concrete behind it. Will be interesting to see how he approaches any fact based allegations. Or doesn't...
Warren is an embarrassment, useless.

By the way, props to the racists democrats who went after blacks, gays and Jews, be proud notches and thank God for wiki, it exposes all sorts of racism no matter the source, racist democrats are everywhere people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:26:24 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 04:19:15 AM
Obama 2024
Trending after Michelle's speech

That woman was only proud of her country the second her husband got elected President, Michelle is bought and paid for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:32:11 AM
The Bern endorsed killory, even the far left is corrupt, bernie has sold his soul and I look forward to seeing what job the man gets from a clinton administration, racist dems are everywhere but hey, let's focus on getting killory elected Bern, the man not only does not have a soul, he has completely sold his millions of followers down the river and they know it, good enough for them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 26, 2016, 08:57:59 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.

Trump may have a better name calling approach but nothing concrete behind it. Will be interesting to see how he approaches any fact based allegations. Or doesn't...

Elizabeth Warren is a liar, a fraud and a phony.  I wouldn't believe one word that comes out of her mouth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/09/elizabeth-warrens-critique-of-hillary-clintons-2001-bankruptcy-vote/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 26, 2016, 08:57:59 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.

Trump may have a better name calling approach but nothing concrete behind it. Will be interesting to see how he approaches any fact based allegations. Or doesn't...

Elizabeth Warren is a liar, a fraud and a phony.  I wouldn't believe one word that comes out of her mouth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/09/elizabeth-warrens-critique-of-hillary-clintons-2001-bankruptcy-vote/

Speed of the leader, speed of the pack, the woman is a hypocrite and an embarrassment, she revels in her attack dog role which does not suit her at all at all.

The dems have lost all sense of self, they are mired in a morass of corruption and lack of a moral compass, clintobs foibles might yet bring them down, such is her penchant for breaking the law and being above it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
The democrats really are the most arrogant shower, they had an 11 year old illegal alien speak at the convention, that is kind of against the law of the land, she met Clinton recently and got invited to speak despite the fact it is against the law for her to be in the country.

The rules don't apply to killory boys do they?

I wonder who paid for their trip and hotel etc?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 26, 2016, 11:48:24 AM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:26:24 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 04:19:15 AM
Obama 2024
Trending after Michelle's speech

That woman was only proud of her country the second her husband got elected President, Michelle is bought and paid for.

Stew, it is probably better to hate her for absolutely no reason, rather than a completely daft, obviously made up reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on July 26, 2016, 11:48:39 AM
Go for a walk ,Stew.The fresh air might do you good.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 26, 2016, 11:49:44 AM
If ever a man needed to take a chill pill stew is the boyo!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:26:24 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 04:19:15 AM
Obama 2024
Trending after Michelle's speech

That woman was only proud of her country the second her husband got elected President, Michelle is bought and paid for.

Yes, god forbid a black person have misgivings and bitterness about the US and its history. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 11:57:11 AM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
The democrats really are the most arrogant shower, they had an 11 year old illegal alien speak at the convention, that is kind of against the law of the land, she met Clinton recently and got invited to speak despite the fact it is against the law for her to be in the country.

The rules don't apply to killory boys do they?

I wonder who paid for their trip and hotel etc?

Yes, much better to pretend they're subhuman. Much better to pay them no mind, except to demonize them and use as fear mongering props and accuse them of containing a disproportionate amount of rapists and criminals. Much better to kick this wee girl's parents out, leaving their US born kids behind, breaking up families. 

The child herself is US born, by the way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:32:11 AM
The Bern endorsed killory, even the far left is corrupt, bernie has sold his soul and I look forward to seeing what job the man gets from a clinton administration, racist dems are everywhere but hey, let's focus on getting killory elected Bern, the man not only does not have a soul, he has completely sold his millions of followers down the river and they know it, good enough for them.

Thought you were one of his followers stew? ;D

Despite your "conservatism".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 12:03:37 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:05:01 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.

Trump may have a better name calling approach but nothing concrete behind it. Will be interesting to see how he approaches any fact based allegations. Or doesn't...
Warren is an embarrassment, useless.

By the way, props to the racists democrats who went after blacks, gays and Jews, be proud notches and thank God for wiki, it exposes all sorts of racism no matter the source, racist democrats are everywhere people.

What does that even mean?

Lots of things are "everywhere". Doesn't mean they're plentiful or dominant.

A bit of data and context with your rants would be helpful.

How are the Dems doing with the bro-Nazi, white supremacy crowd, say, in comparison to Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 26, 2016, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 12:03:37 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:05:01 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.

Trump may have a better name calling approach but nothing concrete behind it. Will be interesting to see how he approaches any fact based allegations. Or doesn't...
Warren is an embarrassment, useless.

By the way, props to the racists democrats who went after blacks, gays and Jews, be proud notches and thank God for wiki, it exposes all sorts of racism no matter the source, racist democrats are everywhere people.

What does that even mean?

Lots of things are "everywhere". Doesn't mean they're plentiful or dominant.

A bit of data and context with your rants would be helpful.

How are the Dems doing with the bro-Nazi, white supremacy crowd, say, in comparison to Trump?

J70......if you think that only the Republicans have rascist supporters, I would suggest you take a trip to Irish American Democratic strongholds on the Southside of Chicago and South Boston.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:32:11 AM
The Bern endorsed killory, even the far left is corrupt, bernie has sold his soul and I look forward to seeing what job the man gets from a clinton administration, racist dems are everywhere but hey, let's focus on getting killory elected Bern, the man not only does not have a soul, he has completely sold his millions of followers down the river and they know it, good enough for them.

Thought you were one of his followers stew? ;D

Despite your "conservatism".
[/quote

When you have two repugnant arseholes running and one decent human being running I think you should vote for the decent man.

You liberals obviously don't give a shite about the law, the kid is US born and that is fine, her parents should go through the proper channels and stay in the country legally.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 01:22:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:26:24 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 04:19:15 AM
Obama 2024
Trending after Michelle's speech

That woman was only proud of her country the second her husband got elected President, Michelle is bought and paid for.

Yes, god forbid a black person have misgivings and bitterness about the US and its history. ::)

Yes, but the timing of her pride was rather self serving was it not.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 11:57:11 AM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
The democrats really are the most arrogant shower, they had an 11 year old illegal alien speak at the convention, that is kind of against the law of the land, she met Clinton recently and got invited to speak despite the fact it is against the law for her to be in the country.

The rules don't apply to killory boys do they?

I wonder who paid for their trip and hotel etc?

Yes, much better to pretend they're subhuman. Much better to pay them no mind, except to demonize them and use as fear mongering props and accuse them of containing a disproportionate amount of rapists and criminals. Much better to kick this wee girl's parents out, leaving their US born kids behind, breaking up families. 

The child herself is US born, by the way.

Who dehumanized them?

They are not supposed to be in the states because they did not bother to apply to get into the states.

Ach sure deck the law when it does not suit your agenda, no bother.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 01:34:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 12:03:37 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:05:01 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.

Trump may have a better name calling approach but nothing concrete behind it. Will be interesting to see how he approaches any fact based allegations. Or doesn't...
Warren is an embarrassment, useless.

By the way, props to the racists democrats who went after blacks, gays and Jews, be proud notches and thank God for wiki, it exposes all sorts of racism no matter the source, racist democrats are everywhere people.

What does that even mean?

Lots of things are "everywhere". Doesn't mean they're plentiful or dominant.

A bit of data and context with your rants would be helpful.

How are the Dems doing with the bro-Nazi, white supremacy crowd, say, in comparison to Trump?

It's in the wikileaks, look it up.

Trump is NOT a Republican, he is one of your own, fits in well I would say.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 01:54:15 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 11:57:11 AM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
The democrats really are the most arrogant shower, they had an 11 year old illegal alien speak at the convention, that is kind of against the law of the land, she met Clinton recently and got invited to speak despite the fact it is against the law for her to be in the country.

The rules don't apply to killory boys do they?

I wonder who paid for their trip and hotel etc?

Yes, much better to pretend they're subhuman. Much better to pay them no mind, except to demonize them and use as fear mongering props and accuse them of containing a disproportionate amount of rapists and criminals. Much better to kick this wee girl's parents out, leaving their US born kids behind, breaking up families. 

The child herself is US born, by the way.

Who dehumanized them?

They are not supposed to be in the states because they did not bother to apply to get into the states.

Ach sure deck the law when it does not suit your agenda, no bother.

A recognition of their humanity is sorely lacking in GOP rhetoric and policy. Their only reference to them ever is to demonize them. The fact is that they are here, they have roots and families and are overwhelmingly decent people and citizens in all but name. And the fact that the GOP are willing to either deport or leave in legal limbo families and their children who have been here all their lives and know no place else tells you all you need to know about GOP compassion and family values.

Say whatever you want about George W Bush, but he was willing to do the right thing by them, until the rabid right wing rose up in arms. And here we are ten years later and nothing has changed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 01:55:49 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 01:22:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:26:24 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 04:19:15 AM
Obama 2024
Trending after Michelle's speech

That woman was only proud of her country the second her husband got elected President, Michelle is bought and paid for.

Yes, god forbid a black person have misgivings and bitterness about the US and its history. ::)

Yes, but the timing of her pride was rather self serving was it not.

And of course nothing to do with seeing a black man running for president as the nominee of a major party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 01:57:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 26, 2016, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 12:03:37 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:05:01 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.

Trump may have a better name calling approach but nothing concrete behind it. Will be interesting to see how he approaches any fact based allegations. Or doesn't...
Warren is an embarrassment, useless.

By the way, props to the racists democrats who went after blacks, gays and Jews, be proud notches and thank God for wiki, it exposes all sorts of racism no matter the source, racist democrats are everywhere people.

What does that even mean?

Lots of things are "everywhere". Doesn't mean they're plentiful or dominant.

A bit of data and context with your rants would be helpful.

How are the Dems doing with the bro-Nazi, white supremacy crowd, say, in comparison to Trump?

J70......if you think that only the Republicans have rascist supporters, I would suggest you take a trip to Irish American Democratic strongholds on the Southside of Chicago and South Boston.....

I didn't think or say anything of the sort.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 01:55:39 AM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
I wouldn't vote for either of them. I think the 2 party system has run its course when a guy the constitution was designed to prevent represents the GOP.

Aye but he is a Democrat the same boy

Think its time to give that one up stew FFS.

Unless you're proposing he is going to turn around if elected and nominate a liberal to replace Scalia, veto the 75th vote to repeal Obamacare and apologize to muslims and Mexicans and all the rest of the groups and people he has demonized to win the working class white vote? ;D

Come on stew... You're still hanging on to your ludicrous "Trump is a Democrat" crap.

Answer my question.

What will Trump do in office if he's REALLY a Dem?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:03:25 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 01:34:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 12:03:37 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 07:05:01 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 26, 2016, 03:39:11 AM
Warren's speech will make for some uncomfortable reading for Republicans deluded by trump, should they ever decide to read it.

Trump may have a better name calling approach but nothing concrete behind it. Will be interesting to see how he approaches any fact based allegations. Or doesn't...
Warren is an embarrassment, useless.

By the way, props to the racists democrats who went after blacks, gays and Jews, be proud notches and thank God for wiki, it exposes all sorts of racism no matter the source, racist democrats are everywhere people.

What does that even mean?

Lots of things are "everywhere". Doesn't mean they're plentiful or dominant.

A bit of data and context with your rants would be helpful.

How are the Dems doing with the bro-Nazi, white supremacy crowd, say, in comparison to Trump?

It's in the wikileaks, look it up.

Trump is NOT a Republican, he is one of your own, fits in well I would say.

What racist statements about blacks, Jews and gays?

Can't be that hard to at least summarize if you're that familiar with it?

On Trump, see my other post/ question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 26, 2016, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 01:55:39 AM
Quote from: stew on July 25, 2016, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
I wouldn't vote for either of them. I think the 2 party system has run its course when a guy the constitution was designed to prevent represents the GOP.

Aye but he is a Democrat the same boy

Think its time to give that one up stew FFS.

Unless you're proposing he is going to turn around if elected and nominate a liberal to replace Scalia, veto the 75th vote to repeal Obamacare and apologize to muslims and Mexicans and all the rest of the groups and people he has demonized to win the working class white vote? ;D

Come on stew... You're still hanging on to your ludicrous "Trump is a Democrat" crap.

Answer my question.

What will Trump do in office if he's REALLY a Dem?

He will thank Republicans like Stew for putting him there.

Then maybe rework the US flag.

I'd say he'd like HIS people at the top of the military as well. Maybe nationalise the media?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
Looked up some of the emails there:

One guy joking about an EA's name - LaQueenia. Insensitive for sure, and dumb to put in writing in this day and age, but hardly an indictment of the DNC and Democratic Party. It's not like the person was spouting racist bile. Hardly the first time someone has joked about black use of non- traditional names. I say fair f**ks to them, given their history, but sometimes the names are unusual and people do a double-take and joke.

Another joked "I love you. No homo". Again, dumb and insensitive and something we've all probably done in our time, joked that our friend was gay. It's inappropriate any more as there is no excuse for casual demeaning of homosexuality any more. But again, a stupid joke by a single person. Does this mean that the DNC is full of homophobes and the party the anti- LBTG party, all actual evidence to the contrary?

On Bernie being a Jew or an atheist - the implication was that those Southern folks might be more receptive to a Jew than an atheist. Which is completely true!

Are you going to bat for us atheist types stew? Are you outraged on our behalf?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
Looked up some of the emails there:

One guy joking about an EA's name - LaQueenia. Insensitive for sure, and dumb to put in writing in this day and age, but hardly an indictment of the DNC and Democratic Party. It's not like the person was spouting racist bile. Hardly the first time someone has joked about black use of non- traditional names. I say fair f**ks to them, given their history, but sometimes the names are unusual and people do a double-take and joke.

Another joked "I love you. No homo". Again, dumb and insensitive and something we've all probably done in our time, joked that our friend was gay. It's inappropriate any more as there is no excuse for casual demeaning of homosexuality any more. But again, a stupid joke by a single person. Does this mean that the DNC is full of homophobes and the party the anti- LBTG party, all actual evidence to the contrary?

On Bernie being a Jew or an atheist - the implication was that those Southern folks might be more receptive to a Jew than an atheist. Which is completely true!

Are you going to bat for us atheist types stew? Are you outraged on our behalf?

Downplaying issues, typical liberal bullshit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:17:30 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
Looked up some of the emails there:

One guy joking about an EA's name - LaQueenia. Insensitive for sure, and dumb to put in writing in this day and age, but hardly an indictment of the DNC and Democratic Party. It's not like the person was spouting racist bile. Hardly the first time someone has joked about black use of non- traditional names. I say fair f**ks to them, given their history, but sometimes the names are unusual and people do a double-take and joke.

Another joked "I love you. No homo". Again, dumb and insensitive and something we've all probably done in our time, joked that our friend was gay. It's inappropriate any more as there is no excuse for casual demeaning of homosexuality any more. But again, a stupid joke by a single person. Does this mean that the DNC is full of homophobes and the party the anti- LBTG party, all actual evidence to the contrary?

On Bernie being a Jew or an atheist - the implication was that those Southern folks might be more receptive to a Jew than an atheist. Which is completely true!

Are you going to bat for us atheist types stew? Are you outraged on our behalf?

If a republican had said any of that you would have completely different take than that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 03:24:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
Looked up some of the emails there:

One guy joking about an EA's name - LaQueenia. Insensitive for sure, and dumb to put in writing in this day and age, but hardly an indictment of the DNC and Democratic Party. It's not like the person was spouting racist bile. Hardly the first time someone has joked about black use of non- traditional names. I say fair f**ks to them, given their history, but sometimes the names are unusual and people do a double-take and joke.

Another joked "I love you. No homo". Again, dumb and insensitive and something we've all probably done in our time, joked that our friend was gay. It's inappropriate any more as there is no excuse for casual demeaning of homosexuality any more. But again, a stupid joke by a single person. Does this mean that the DNC is full of homophobes and the party the anti- LBTG party, all actual evidence to the contrary?

On Bernie being a Jew or an atheist - the implication was that those Southern folks might be more receptive to a Jew than an atheist. Which is completely true!

Are you going to bat for us atheist types stew? Are you outraged on our behalf?

Downplaying issues, typical liberal bullshit!

What exactly is bullshit stew?

Details...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:17:30 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
Looked up some of the emails there:

One guy joking about an EA's name - LaQueenia. Insensitive for sure, and dumb to put in writing in this day and age, but hardly an indictment of the DNC and Democratic Party. It's not like the person was spouting racist bile. Hardly the first time someone has joked about black use of non- traditional names. I say fair f**ks to them, given their history, but sometimes the names are unusual and people do a double-take and joke.

Another joked "I love you. No homo". Again, dumb and insensitive and something we've all probably done in our time, joked that our friend was gay. It's inappropriate any more as there is no excuse for casual demeaning of homosexuality any more. But again, a stupid joke by a single person. Does this mean that the DNC is full of homophobes and the party the anti- LBTG party, all actual evidence to the contrary?

On Bernie being a Jew or an atheist - the implication was that those Southern folks might be more receptive to a Jew than an atheist. Which is completely true!

Are you going to bat for us atheist types stew? Are you outraged on our behalf?

If a republican had said any of that you would have completely different take than that.

If a republican had said which part?

And what do you base that on?

I criticize GOP policies and rhetoric all the time. Don't recall going apeshit over an isolated joke which we have probably all been guilty of.

But I'm open to correction...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on July 26, 2016, 03:31:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoPJ-xlWYAAx7RU.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 26, 2016, 03:36:39 PM
But she's crooked, and a liar, and kills people . . . you can't be coming on here giving out facts, don't you realise that elections are won by name calling and pretending you'll be good great at something which you literally have no experience of??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 03:24:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
Looked up some of the emails there:

One guy joking about an EA's name - LaQueenia. Insensitive for sure, and dumb to put in writing in this day and age, but hardly an indictment of the DNC and Democratic Party. It's not like the person was spouting racist bile. Hardly the first time someone has joked about black use of non- traditional names. I say fair f**ks to them, given their history, but sometimes the names are unusual and people do a double-take and joke.

Another joked "I love you. No homo". Again, dumb and insensitive and something we've all probably done in our time, joked that our friend was gay. It's inappropriate any more as there is no excuse for casual demeaning of homosexuality any more. But again, a stupid joke by a single person. Does this mean that the DNC is full of homophobes and the party the anti- LBTG party, all actual evidence to the contrary?

On Bernie being a Jew or an atheist - the implication was that those Southern folks might be more receptive to a Jew than an atheist. Which is completely true!

Are you going to bat for us atheist types stew? Are you outraged on our behalf?

Downplaying issues, typical liberal bullshit!

What exactly is bullshit stew?

Details...

Your excuses for the bigots you yourself posted on and downplayed their bigotry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2016, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 03:24:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
Looked up some of the emails there:

One guy joking about an EA's name - LaQueenia. Insensitive for sure, and dumb to put in writing in this day and age, but hardly an indictment of the DNC and Democratic Party. It's not like the person was spouting racist bile. Hardly the first time someone has joked about black use of non- traditional names. I say fair f**ks to them, given their history, but sometimes the names are unusual and people do a double-take and joke.

Another joked "I love you. No homo". Again, dumb and insensitive and something we've all probably done in our time, joked that our friend was gay. It's inappropriate any more as there is no excuse for casual demeaning of homosexuality any more. But again, a stupid joke by a single person. Does this mean that the DNC is full of homophobes and the party the anti- LBTG party, all actual evidence to the contrary?

On Bernie being a Jew or an atheist - the implication was that those Southern folks might be more receptive to a Jew than an atheist. Which is completely true!

Are you going to bat for us atheist types stew? Are you outraged on our behalf?

Downplaying issues, typical liberal bullshit!

What exactly is bullshit stew?

Details...

Your excuses for the bigots you yourself posted on and downplayed their bigotry.

How are my excuses bullshit?

Have you ever joked that a friend is a "homo" or gay? I'd safely say most of us have?

Have you raised an eyebrow at an African American name?

These individuals may well be bigots. A couple of inappropriate non-PC jokes doesn't prove it, however.

And, when it comes down to it, they're not working for the party which is anti-gay and has sought over the past fifty years to exploit working class white fear and hostility to minorities.

And even if these individuals ARE bigots, THAT is not reflected in the party platform or the policies and causes for which the party fights.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 26, 2016, 06:09:31 PM
I think Stew is right. Both candidates are odious. I remember reading the US press in 2000 when Nader ran. The Dems were bought by Wall St. The rich have never owned more
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 27, 2016, 02:30:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 26, 2016, 06:09:31 PM
I think Stew is right. Both candidates are odious. I remember reading the US press in 2000 when Nader ran. The Dems were bought by Wall St. The rich have never owned more

How the Clintons get their cash. Irish connection with Dennis OBrien as well. Great documentary.
https://youtu.be/7LYRUOd_QoM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 27, 2016, 02:54:06 AM
More law suits for trump

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2016/07/usa_freedom_kids_sue_trump.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 27, 2016, 04:16:50 AM
Hillary looking good in a red kind of doctor evil top
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on July 27, 2016, 04:45:10 AM
As a registered voter for the Democratic Party let me speak for some of the Democrats:

I did not get the opportunity to see the speeches tonight 7/26/16

Is Hillary tough to take as a canditate-yes!!

Would I have preferred Bernie-YES!!

Do I feel better having Hillary than Trump-YES!!

Do I feel the GOP (Trump) would hurt the US-Yes!!

It comes down to, myself, to have the lesser of two evils ( I feel that any second relation candidate should not be afforded to run - Bush Sr. and his kid, Clinton and his wife...........independent candidates should be ahead of any legacy).

Do I believe Hillary caused 4 people to die in Benghazi......NO!!   There was many layers between her and the citizens who lost their life. This coming from a soldier who served in the 101st Aviation Division.

I would feel better as a vet to have Hillary than Trump leading the US to a more unified policy and world security policy in the matters involving security world-wide and policy overall.

Am I reperesenting only Irish responses or feelings to this election- No!!  But the majority of Irish and foreign born vets of the US Military that I have spoken to feeel the same way. About 65/35% favoring democrat to republican in this presidential race.

All statistics based on Midwestern information.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 27, 2016, 05:51:25 AM
Clinton is a control freak who puts secrecy over honesty. Her biggest flaw is Wall St groupthink. The US needs someone like Cody to sort things out. It is senior hurling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 06:39:12 AM
I don't know what's bigger. The meltdown the GOP is going through, or the meltdown Stew is going through.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2016, 09:19:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 06:39:12 AM
I don't know what's bigger. The meltdown the GOP is going through, or the meltdown Stew is going through.

No meltdown here kid, I am simply disgusted by your hero and trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 10:06:10 AM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2016, 09:19:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 06:39:12 AM
I don't know what's bigger. The meltdown the GOP is going through, or the meltdown Stew is going through.

No meltdown here kid, I am simply disgusted by your hero and trump.

Very emotional last night stew I'm sure it pulled at the heartstrings and showed that Hillary's human after all.

The Democratic convention is is only 2 days old and it's already knocked the f**k out of that shit show the Republicans produced last week. Intelligent and informed speakers who aren't fumbling in the dark has made a huge difference hopefully it gives Hillary the bump she deserves and knocks Trump on his ass!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2016, 10:27:10 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 27, 2016, 04:45:10 AM
As a registered voter for the Democratic Party let me speak for some of the Democrats:

I did not get the opportunity to see the speeches tonight 7/26/16

Is Hillary tough to take as a canditate-yes!!

Would I have preferred Bernie-YES!!

Do I feel better having Hillary than Trump-YES!!

Do I feel the GOP (Trump) would hurt the US-Yes!!

It comes down to, myself, to have the lesser of two evils ( I feel that any second relation candidate should not be afforded to run - Bush Sr. and his kid, Clinton and his wife...........independent candidates should be ahead of any legacy).

Do I believe Hillary caused 4 people to die in Benghazi......NO!!   There was many layers between her and the citizens who lost their life. This coming from a soldier who served in the 101st Aviation Division.

I would feel better as a vet to have Hillary than Trump leading the US to a more unified policy and world security policy in the matters involving security world-wide and policy overall.

Am I reperesenting only Irish responses or feelings to this election- No!!  But the majority of Irish and foreign born vets of the US Military that I have spoken to feeel the same way. About 65/35% favoring democrat to republican in this presidential race.

All statistics based on Midwestern information.

Clinton was contacted over 300 times by the ambassador begging for help, she ignored his plea's, she lied to the families of the four dead men and she has blood on her hands.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2016, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 10:06:10 AM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2016, 09:19:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 06:39:12 AM
I don't know what's bigger. The meltdown the GOP is going through, or the meltdown Stew is going through.

No meltdown here kid, I am simply disgusted by your hero and trump.

Very emotional last night stew I'm sure it pulled at the heartstrings and showed that Hillary's human after all.

The Democratic convention is is only 2 days old and it's already knocked the f**k out of that shit show the Republicans produced last week. Intelligent and informed speakers who aren't fumbling in the dark has made a huge difference hopefully it gives Hillary the bump she deserves and knocks Trump on his ass!!

Are you f**king serious?

They parade the mothers of dead black men up on stage who were killed by cops, that's fine but they forgot that most of them had long rap sheets, I kept waiting for some balance and thought I might see the family of one dead cop up there for I don't know, balance maybe, not a sign.

Members walking out en masse after the roll call,bubba meeting a girl in 1971, it is a shit show befitting the corrupt party to the left.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2016, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 27, 2016, 04:45:10 AM
As a registered voter for the Democratic Party let me speak for some of the Democrats:

I did not get the opportunity to see the speeches tonight 7/26/16

Is Hillary tough to take as a canditate-yes!!

Would I have preferred Bernie-YES!!

Do I feel better having Hillary than Trump-YES!!

Do I feel the GOP (Trump) would hurt the US-Yes!!

It comes down to, myself, to have the lesser of two evils ( I feel that any second relation candidate should not be afforded to run - Bush Sr. and his kid, Clinton and his wife...........independent candidates should be ahead of any legacy).

Do I believe Hillary caused 4 people to die in Benghazi......NO!!   There was many layers between her and the citizens who lost their life. This coming from a soldier who served in the 101st Aviation Division.

I would feel better as a vet to have Hillary than Trump leading the US to a more unified policy and world security policy in the matters involving security world-wide and policy overall.

Am I reperesenting only Irish responses or feelings to this election- No!!  But the majority of Irish and foreign born vets of the US Military that I have spoken to feeel the same way. About 65/35% favoring democrat to republican in this presidential race.

All statistics based on Midwestern information.

Your fellows democrats did a great job of burning the flag last night, oh yeah, they fucked with Geraldo Rivera and his crew, even pouring water over his head and pushing him etc, lowlife scum all involved.7
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2016, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 10:06:10 AM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2016, 09:19:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 06:39:12 AM
I don't know what's bigger. The meltdown the GOP is going through, or the meltdown Stew is going through.

No meltdown here kid, I am simply disgusted by your hero and trump.

Very emotional last night stew I'm sure it pulled at the heartstrings and showed that Hillary's human after all.

The Democratic convention is is only 2 days old and it's already knocked the f**k out of that shit show the Republicans produced last week. Intelligent and informed speakers who aren't fumbling in the dark has made a huge difference hopefully it gives Hillary the bump she deserves and knocks Trump on his ass!!


This post is incredible, laughed my arse off, the democrats on the floor were chanting ' lock her up' they were referring to killory of course, but hey, great conference and way to come together team.

The flag was burned and a media crew was assaulted both physically and verbally, stay classy democrats.

Eamon you are the most deluded lad out there kid, the dems are having a mate and you are either too dumb or too blinkered to see it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 11:12:04 AM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2016, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 27, 2016, 04:45:10 AM
As a registered voter for the Democratic Party let me speak for some of the Democrats:

I did not get the opportunity to see the speeches tonight 7/26/16

Is Hillary tough to take as a canditate-yes!!

Would I have preferred Bernie-YES!!

Do I feel better having Hillary than Trump-YES!!

Do I feel the GOP (Trump) would hurt the US-Yes!!

It comes down to, myself, to have the lesser of two evils ( I feel that any second relation candidate should not be afforded to run - Bush Sr. and his kid, Clinton and his wife...........independent candidates should be ahead of any legacy).

Do I believe Hillary caused 4 people to die in Benghazi......NO!!   There was many layers between her and the citizens who lost their life. This coming from a soldier who served in the 101st Aviation Division.

I would feel better as a vet to have Hillary than Trump leading the US to a more unified policy and world security policy in the matters involving security world-wide and policy overall.

Am I reperesenting only Irish responses or feelings to this election- No!!  But the majority of Irish and foreign born vets of the US Military that I have spoken to feeel the same way. About 65/35% favoring democrat to republican in this presidential race.

All statistics based on Midwestern information.

Your fellows democrats did a great job of burning the flag last night, oh yeah, they fucked with Geraldo Rivera and his crew, even pouring water over his head and pushing him etc, lowlife scum all involved.7

Vets, flag burners and water pourers on Geraldo... whoever said the Democratic Party wasn't a big tent! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2016, 11:40:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 03:24:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 26, 2016, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
Looked up some of the emails there:

One guy joking about an EA's name - LaQueenia. Insensitive for sure, and dumb to put in writing in this day and age, but hardly an indictment of the DNC and Democratic Party. It's not like the person was spouting racist bile. Hardly the first time someone has joked about black use of non- traditional names. I say fair f**ks to them, given their history, but sometimes the names are unusual and people do a double-take and joke.

Another joked "I love you. No homo". Again, dumb and insensitive and something we've all probably done in our time, joked that our friend was gay. It's inappropriate any more as there is no excuse for casual demeaning of homosexuality any more. But again, a stupid joke by a single person. Does this mean that the DNC is full of homophobes and the party the anti- LBTG party, all actual evidence to the contrary?

On Bernie being a Jew or an atheist - the implication was that those Southern folks might be more receptive to a Jew than an atheist. Which is completely true!

Are you going to bat for us atheist types stew? Are you outraged on our behalf?

Downplaying issues, typical liberal bullshit!

What exactly is bullshit stew?

Details...

Your excuses for the bigots you yourself posted on and downplayed their bigotry.

How are my excuses bullshit?

Have you ever joked that a friend is a "homo" or gay? I'd safely say most of us have?

Have you raised an eyebrow at an African American name?

These individuals may well be bigots. A couple of inappropriate non-PC jokes doesn't prove it, however.

And, when it comes down to it, they're not working for the party which is anti-gay and has sought over the past fifty years to exploit working class white fear and hostility to minorities.

And even if these individuals ARE bigots, THAT is not reflected in the party platform or the policies and causes for which the party fights.


r
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 11:12:04 AM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2016, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 27, 2016, 04:45:10 AM
As a registered voter for the Democratic Party let me speak for some of the Democrats:

I did not get the opportunity to see the speeches tonight 7/26/16

Is Hillary tough to take as a canditate-yes!!

Would I have preferred Bernie-YES!!

Do I feel better having Hillary than Trump-YES!!

Do I feel the GOP (Trump) would hurt the US-Yes!!

It comes down to, myself, to have the lesser of two evils ( I feel that any second relation candidate should not be afforded to run - Bush Sr. and his kid, Clinton and his wife...........independent candidates should be ahead of any legacy).

Do I believe Hillary caused 4 people to die in Benghazi......NO!!   There was many layers between her and the citizens who lost their life. This coming from a soldier who served in the 101st Aviation Division.

I would feel better as a vet to have Hillary than Trump leading the US to a more unified policy and world security policy in the matters involving security world-wide and policy overall.

Am I reperesenting only Irish responses or feelings to this election- No!!  But the majority of Irish and foreign born vets of the US Military that I have spoken to feeel the same way. About 65/35% favoring democrat to republican in this presidential race.

All statistics based on Midwestern information.

Your fellows democrats did a great job of burning the flag last night, oh yeah, they fucked with Geraldo Rivera and his crew, even pouring water over his head and pushing him etc, lowlife scum all involved.7

Vets, flag burners and water pourers on Geraldo... whoever said the Democratic Party wasn't a big tent! ;D

You liberals can excuse anything the left does, are you not offended at the corruption surrounding Clinton winning the nomination? A party divided like no other, sauders got screwed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 11:49:49 AM
Again stew, what is wrong with what I said? You're not offering any specific points.

On Bernie, yes, it looks like he did get somewhat screwed, at least with fundraising in that some of the excess Clinton raised that technically could not go to her, instead was routed through the state parties and back to the DNC, ostensibly to be spent on down-ticket races, but obviously Hillary will benefit from this money (apparently its standard practise across both parties).

The other stuff you seem hung up on is a trivial distraction from the actual potential harm he suffered if the DNC was leaning towards her. Whether it made any difference to the outcome, I haven't seen anything to suggest that it did.

As for the flag burning and Geraldo, who gives a shit? Let Geraldo sue the lad who soaked him. And flag burning is not a crime. It's not as if a massive outbreak of either broke out inside the convention hall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2016, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 11:49:49 AM
Again stew, what is wrong with what I said? You're not offering any specific points.

On Bernie, yes, it looks like he did get somewhat screwed, at least with fundraising in that some of the excess Clinton raised that technically could not go to her, instead was routed through the state parties and back to the DNC, ostensibly to be spent on down-ticket races, but obviously Hillary will benefit from this money (apparently its standard practise across both parties).

The other stuff you seem hung up on is a trivial distraction from the actual potential harm he suffered if the DNC was leaning towards her. Whether it made any difference to the outcome, I haven't seen anything to suggest that it did.

As for the flag burning and Geraldo, who gives a shit? Let Geraldo sue the lad who soaked him. And flag burning is not a crime. It's not as if a massive outbreak of either broke out inside the convention hall.

You play down everything negative about the democrats,case in point the racists that I alluded to earlier, You excused their behavior, what about the email where some arsehold wrote that Hispanics are ' more susceptible to storytelling' than other segments of society, in other words they are thick, another wrote that ' Hispanics are the most brand loyal'. in other words they are sheep, the democrats don't give a white about Hispanics in my opinion, 'll they give a white about is getting killory elected!9
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2016, 12:54:46 PM
I don't believe a single liberal mentioned the poor Priest that got his head cut off by radical muslim extremists, surely someone is going to address these evil bastards in this great party of yours?

Racism is alive and well at the Democratic convention, corruption is rife and the leader was forced to quit before she could open proceedings, it is so disorganized and the crowd chanted ' lock her up' and booed the winner, wee eamon says the convention is  brilliant and he is right...... From my perspective it is, a world class clusterfuck is what it is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2016, 12:54:53 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

Can't make it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2016, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 11:49:49 AM
Again stew, what is wrong with what I said? You're not offering any specific points.

On Bernie, yes, it looks like he did get somewhat screwed, at least with fundraising in that some of the excess Clinton raised that technically could not go to her, instead was routed through the state parties and back to the DNC, ostensibly to be spent on down-ticket races, but obviously Hillary will benefit from this money (apparently its standard practise across both parties).

The other stuff you seem hung up on is a trivial distraction from the actual potential harm he suffered if the DNC was leaning towards her. Whether it made any difference to the outcome, I haven't seen anything to suggest that it did.

As for the flag burning and Geraldo, who gives a shit? Let Geraldo sue the lad who soaked him. And flag burning is not a crime. It's not as if a massive outbreak of either broke out inside the convention hall.

You play down everything negative about the democrats,case in point the racists that I alluded to earlier, You excused their behavior, what about the email where some arsehold wrote that Hispanics are ' more susceptible to storytelling' than other segments of society, in other words they are thick, another wrote that ' Hispanics are the most brand loyal'. in other words they are sheep, the democrats don't give a white about Hispanics in my opinion, 'll they give a white about is getting killory elected!9

Talk about whining!

Please point out what is wrong with what I wrote and spare me the vague "excusing/playing down" crap. I used very specific examples. It shouldn't be hard for you to be specific in where I'm wrong.

Hispanics - story telling. Post the email till we see. Is it wrong that they traditionally like stories to illustrate rather than banal facts or stats? I don't know. Presumably you DO, given that you're putting a definitive interpretation on its meaning. Same with "brand loyal"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 27, 2016, 01:41:30 PM
Apologies if already has been covered but could Hillary lose out if the Bernie voters don't come out? Or were they just making a scene and when push comes to shove they'll vote Clinton??

Pretty powerful speech from Michelle Obama, if its the same guy who writes Barack's he's a talented boy!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:42:50 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 27, 2016, 01:41:30 PM
Apologies if already has been covered but could Hillary lose out if the Bernie voters don't come out? Or were they just making a scene and when push comes to shove they'll vote Clinton??

Pretty powerful speech from Michelle Obama, if its the same guy who writes Barack's he's a talented boy!!

Recent polls show 90% will vote for Hillary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 01:43:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 12:54:53 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

Can't make it up

But that article sounds like McAuliffe did just make it up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 27, 2016, 01:43:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:42:50 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 27, 2016, 01:41:30 PM
Apologies if already has been covered but could Hillary lose out if the Bernie voters don't come out? Or were they just making a scene and when push comes to shove they'll vote Clinton??

Pretty powerful speech from Michelle Obama, if its the same guy who writes Barack's he's a talented boy!!

Recent polls show 90% will vote for Hillary

90% of Democrats? So that should be enough to defeat Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 27, 2016, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 27, 2016, 01:41:30 PM
Apologies if already has been covered but could Hillary lose out if the Bernie voters don't come out? Or were they just making a scene and when push comes to shove they'll vote Clinton??

Pretty powerful speech from Michelle Obama, if its the same guy who writes Barack's he's a talented boy!!
I don't think they are foolish enough to do that. Any democrat voter will surely take a bad Hillary over Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:45:12 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 27, 2016, 01:43:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:42:50 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 27, 2016, 01:41:30 PM
Apologies if already has been covered but could Hillary lose out if the Bernie voters don't come out? Or were they just making a scene and when push comes to shove they'll vote Clinton??

Pretty powerful speech from Michelle Obama, if its the same guy who writes Barack's he's a talented boy!!

Recent polls show 90% will vote for Hillary

90% of Democrats? So that should be enough to defeat Trump?

90% of Bernie supporters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 12:54:53 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

Can't make it up

She will back TPP or some version of it in the end.

As will Trump.

The powers that be and both parties, GOP especially, are in favour.

As is pretty much everyone when they think about it and look at their iPhone and cars and all the other stuff they need for their lives at an affordable cost. Manufacturing ain't coming back to the US, no matter what Trump blathers on about.

Well, maybe he will bring his clothes line back from China!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on July 27, 2016, 01:51:18 PM
QuotePretty powerful speech from Michelle Obama, if its the same guy who writes Barack's he's a talented boy!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/what-s-on-michelle-obama-s-mind-meet-the-speechwriter-who-puts-it-into-words-a7155986.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/what-s-on-michelle-obama-s-mind-meet-the-speechwriter-who-puts-it-into-words-a7155986.html)

Don't you just love the riposte from O'Reilly to the White House line??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2016, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 12:54:53 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

Can't make it up

She will back TPP or some version of it in the end.

As will Trump.

The powers that be and both parties, GOP especially, are in favour.

As is pretty much everyone when they think about it and look at their iPhone and cars and all the other stuff they need for their lives at an affordable cost. Manufacturing ain't coming back to the US, no matter what Trump blathers on about.

Well, maybe he will bring his clothes line back from China!

I just heard the headlines  But did McAuliffe not just say that Hillary would say one thing to get Bernies folks on board (who are dead set against it) then do the exact opposite when she's elected (I'm paraphrasing here)

That's going to make hem real happy

(Of course he's backtracking already)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 12:54:53 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

Can't make it up

She will back TPP or some version of it in the end.

As will Trump.

The powers that be and both parties, GOP especially, are in favour.

As is pretty much everyone when they think about it and look at their iPhone and cars and all the other stuff they need for their lives at an affordable cost. Manufacturing ain't coming back to the US, no matter what Trump blathers on about.

Well, maybe he will bring his clothes line back from China!

I just heard the headlines  But did McAuliffe not just say that Hillary would say one thing to get Bernies folks on board (who are dead set against it) then do the exact opposite when she's elected (I'm paraphrasing here)

That's going to make hem real happy

(Of course he's backtracking already)

They'll be about as happy as the working class whites backing Trump will be if he gets in and slams into the wall of reality regarding trade agreements and big business!

Whether he's more sincere than Hillary in his rhetoric and platform, I've no idea.

But I think you'd need to be pretty naïve to see what she is doing as anything other than pandering given she previously, if tentatively, supported it.

But, that's the thing with political campaigning. You can promise anything, and blame it on the democratic system once you win. "I'd love to make college free for everyone, but the political reality is that we just can't get it through congress" or "the wall is still a great idea, but we just can't the funding for it and Mexico refuse to do their part".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2016, 02:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 12:54:53 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

Can't make it up

She will back TPP or some version of it in the end.

As will Trump.

The powers that be and both parties, GOP especially, are in favour.

As is pretty much everyone when they think about it and look at their iPhone and cars and all the other stuff they need for their lives at an affordable cost. Manufacturing ain't coming back to the US, no matter what Trump blathers on about.

Well, maybe he will bring his clothes line back from China!

I just heard the headlines  But did McAuliffe not just say that Hillary would say one thing to get Bernies folks on board (who are dead set against it) then do the exact opposite when she's elected (I'm paraphrasing here)

That's going to make hem real happy

(Of course he's backtracking already)

They'll be about as happy as the working class whites backing Trump will be if he gets in and slams into the wall of reality regarding trade agreements and big business!

Whether he's more sincere than Hillary in his rhetoric and platform, I've no idea.

But I think you'd need to be pretty naïve to see what she is doing as anything other than pandering given she previously, if tentatively, supported it.

But, that's the thing with political campaigning. You can promise anything, and blame it on the democratic system once you win. "I'd love to make college free for everyone, but the political reality is that we just can't get it through congress" or "the wall is still a great idea, but we just can't the funding for it and Mexico refuse to do their part".

All true, but this is exactly why almost 70% of people don't think Hillary is honest or trustworthy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 02:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 12:54:53 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

Can't make it up

She will back TPP or some version of it in the end.

As will Trump.

The powers that be and both parties, GOP especially, are in favour.

As is pretty much everyone when they think about it and look at their iPhone and cars and all the other stuff they need for their lives at an affordable cost. Manufacturing ain't coming back to the US, no matter what Trump blathers on about.

Well, maybe he will bring his clothes line back from China!

I just heard the headlines  But did McAuliffe not just say that Hillary would say one thing to get Bernies folks on board (who are dead set against it) then do the exact opposite when she's elected (I'm paraphrasing here)

That's going to make hem real happy

(Of course he's backtracking already)

They'll be about as happy as the working class whites backing Trump will be if he gets in and slams into the wall of reality regarding trade agreements and big business!

Whether he's more sincere than Hillary in his rhetoric and platform, I've no idea.

But I think you'd need to be pretty naïve to see what she is doing as anything other than pandering given she previously, if tentatively, supported it.

But, that's the thing with political campaigning. You can promise anything, and blame it on the democratic system once you win. "I'd love to make college free for everyone, but the political reality is that we just can't get it through congress" or "the wall is still a great idea, but we just can't the funding for it and Mexico refuse to do their part".

All true, but this is exactly why almost 70% of people don't think Hillary is honest or trustworthy.

I'd put that more down to the email thing.

All politicians pander and make empty promises.

They have to or they'd never get elected! Too many disparate groups to keep happy.

And it's why they're generally viewed as bought and sold and rarely held in high regard.

But it's the email scandal that has driven Hillary's numbers beyond the norm. For which she has only herself to blame.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2016, 03:03:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 02:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 12:54:53 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

Can't make it up

She will back TPP or some version of it in the end.

As will Trump.

The powers that be and both parties, GOP especially, are in favour.

As is pretty much everyone when they think about it and look at their iPhone and cars and all the other stuff they need for their lives at an affordable cost. Manufacturing ain't coming back to the US, no matter what Trump blathers on about.

Well, maybe he will bring his clothes line back from China!

I just heard the headlines  But did McAuliffe not just say that Hillary would say one thing to get Bernies folks on board (who are dead set against it) then do the exact opposite when she's elected (I'm paraphrasing here)

That's going to make hem real happy

(Of course he's backtracking already)

They'll be about as happy as the working class whites backing Trump will be if he gets in and slams into the wall of reality regarding trade agreements and big business!

Whether he's more sincere than Hillary in his rhetoric and platform, I've no idea.

But I think you'd need to be pretty naïve to see what she is doing as anything other than pandering given she previously, if tentatively, supported it.

But, that's the thing with political campaigning. You can promise anything, and blame it on the democratic system once you win. "I'd love to make college free for everyone, but the political reality is that we just can't get it through congress" or "the wall is still a great idea, but we just can't the funding for it and Mexico refuse to do their part".

All true, but this is exactly why almost 70% of people don't think Hillary is honest or trustworthy.

I'd put that more down to the email thing.

All politicians pander and make empty promises.

They have to or they'd never get elected! Too many disparate groups to keep happy.

And it's why they're generally viewed as bought and sold and rarely held in high regard.

But it's the email scandal that has driven Hillary's numbers beyond the norm. For which she has only herself to bl3ame.


I am done here because I don't have a dog in the hunt and Clinton is going to get elected, I was supposed to buy my ticket today to move back to Wisconsin but am holding off until the inevitable happens.

America is going to get hit hard soon, the democrats are going to make sure of that because they are weaker than water on national security.

Keep her lit let's and up hillary........ Right up her!





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 27, 2016, 03:15:53 PM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2016, 10:32:30 AM
They parade the mothers of dead black men up on stage who were killed by cops, that's fine but they forgot that most of them had long rap sheets, I kept waiting for some balance and thought I might see the family of one dead cop up there for I don't know, balance maybe, not a sign.


How did Criminal Appreciation Night go at the democrat convention?

I heard they were selling memorabilia outside. Nice little earner.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/14v1d3o.jpg)



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 05:03:05 PM
So Trump has said that it's an indictment on America's security if Russia did hack leak the DNC emails but then says this . . .

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/758327323888201729

Top Presidenting there I'd say!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 07:40:10 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12310537_10153922105899767_5077534478032173054_n.jpg?oh=386a34037c18b512731cc2ec8a270e27&oe=58305600)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 05:03:05 PM
So Trump has said that it's an indictment on America's security if Russia did hack leak the DNC emails but then says this . . .

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/758327323888201729

Top Presidenting there I'd say!!

Can you imagine if Obama called on a foreign government to hack a domestic political opponent? You know what'd happen to the conservative commentators?

(http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-id/1431114654163272.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 05:03:05 PM
So Trump has said that it's an indictment on America's security if Russia did hack leak the DNC emails but then says this . . .

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/758327323888201729

Top Presidenting there I'd say!!

That's actually quite funny! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2016, 08:05:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 05:03:05 PM
So Trump has said that it's an indictment on America's security if Russia did hack leak the DNC emails but then says this . . .

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/758327323888201729

Top Presidenting there I'd say!!

Can you imagine if Obama called on a foreign government to hack a domestic political opponent? You know what'd happen to the conservative commentators?

(http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-id/1431114654163272.gif)

Ah come on... He says plenty of idiotic, ignorant, outrageous shit every day. No need to overreact to a clear joke.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2016, 08:08:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 08:05:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 05:03:05 PM
So Trump has said that it's an indictment on America's security if Russia did hack leak the DNC emails but then says this . . .

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/758327323888201729

Top Presidenting there I'd say!!

Can you imagine if Obama called on a foreign government to hack a domestic political opponent? You know what'd happen to the conservative commentators?

(http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-id/1431114654163272.gif)

Ah come on... He says plenty of idiotic, ignorant, outrageous shit every day. No need to overreact to a clear joke.

I'm more concerned about the fact that she deleted 30000 emails even though they were under suponea.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 08:48:02 PM
But the FBI said it's OK. . . Unless you don't trust law enforcement to do their jobs properly don't you???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: passedit on July 27, 2016, 10:06:56 PM
Trump strikes me as the really bad news that it often prespun to get people to accept the actual shitfest because it's not 'quite' so bad. Hillary is far more scary than windbag Trump imo. I'm sure most of the world would prefer an isolationist president.

Interesting piece from JP. Nothing we don't know, but most of us would rather not hear it.

QuoteJohn Pilger: Why Hillary Clinton Is More Dangerous Than Donald Trump
By John Pilger on March 23, 2016 International Affairs

The following is an edited version of an address given by John Pilger at the University of Sydney, entitled 'A World War Has Begun'.

I have been filming in the Marshall Islands, which lie north of Australia, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Whenever I tell people where I have been, they ask, "Where is that?" If I offer a clue by referring to "Bikini", they say, "You mean the swimsuit."

Few seem aware that the bikini swimsuit was named to celebrate the nuclear explosions that destroyed Bikini island. Sixty-six nuclear devices were exploded by the United States in the Marshall Islands between 1946 and 1958 – the equivalent of 1.6 Hiroshima bombs every day for twelve years.

Bikini is silent today, mutated and contaminated. Palm trees grow in a strange grid formation. Nothing moves. There are no birds. The headstones in the old cemetery are alive with radiation. My shoes registered "unsafe" on a Geiger counter.

Standing on the beach, I watched the emerald green of the Pacific fall away into a vast black hole. This was the crater left by the hydrogen bomb they called "Bravo". The explosion poisoned people and their environment for hundreds of miles, perhaps forever.

On my return journey, I stopped at Honolulu airport and noticed an American magazine called Women's Health. On the cover was a smiling woman in a bikini swimsuit, and the headline: "You, too, can have a bikini body." A few days earlier, in the Marshall Islands, I had interviewed women who had very different "bikini bodies"; each had suffered thyroid cancer and other life-threatening cancers.

Unlike the smiling woman in the magazine, all of them were impoverished: the victims and guinea pigs of a rapacious superpower that is today more dangerous than ever.

I relate this experience as a warning and to interrupt a distraction that has consumed so many of us. The founder of modern propaganda, Edward Bernays, described this phenomenon as "the conscious and intelligent manipulation of the habits and opinions" of democratic societies. He called it an "invisible government".

How many people are aware that a world war has begun? At present, it is a war of propaganda, of lies and distraction, but this can change instantaneously with the first mistaken order, the first missile.

In 2009, President Obama stood before an adoring crowd in the centre of Prague, in the heart of Europe. He pledged himself to make "the world free from nuclear weapons". People cheered and some cried. A torrent of platitudes flowed from the media. Obama was subsequently awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

It was all fake. He was lying.

The Obama administration has built more nuclear weapons, more nuclear warheads, more nuclear delivery systems, more nuclear factories. Nuclear warhead spending alone rose higher under Obama than under any American president. The cost over thirty years is more than $1 trillion.

A mini nuclear bomb is planned. It is known as the B61 Model 12. There has never been anything like it. General James Cartwright, a former Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has said, "Going smaller [makes using this nuclear]weapon more thinkable."

In the last eighteen months, the greatest build-up of military forces since World War Two – led by the United States – is taking place along Russia's western frontier. Not since Hitler invaded the Soviet Union have foreign troops presented such a demonstrable threat to Russia.

Ukraine – once part of the Soviet Union – has become a CIA theme park. Having orchestrated a coup in Kiev, Washington effectively controls a regime that is next door and hostile to Russia: a regime rotten with Nazis, literally. Prominent parliamentary figures in Ukraine are the political descendants of the notorious OUN and UPA fascists. They openly praise Hitler and call for the persecution and expulsion of the Russian speaking minority.

This is seldom news in the West, or it is inverted to suppress the truth.

In Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia – next door to Russia – the US military is deploying combat troops, tanks, heavy weapons. This extreme provocation of the world's second nuclear power is met with silence in the West.

What makes the prospect of nuclear war even more dangerous is a parallel campaign against China.

Seldom a day passes when China is not elevated to the status of a "threat".  According to Admiral Harry Harris, the US Pacific commander, China is "building a great wall of sand in the South China Sea".

What he is referring to is China building airstrips in the Spratly Islands, which are the subject of a dispute with the Philippines – a dispute without priority until Washington pressured and bribed the government in Manila and the Pentagon launched a propaganda campaign called "freedom of navigation".

What does this really mean? It means freedom for American warships to patrol and dominate the coastal waters of China. Try to imagine the American reaction if Chinese warships did the same off the coast of California.

I made a film called The War You Don't See, in which I interviewed distinguished journalists in America and Britain: reporters such as Dan Rather of CBS, Rageh Omar of the BBC, David Rose of the Observer.

All of them said that had journalists and broadcasters done their job and questioned the propaganda that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction; had the lies of George W. Bush and Tony Blair not been amplified and echoed by journalists, the 2003 invasion of Iraq might not have happened, and hundreds of thousands of men, women and children would be alive today.

The propaganda laying the ground for a war against Russia and/or China is no different in principle. To my knowledge, no journalist in the Western "mainstream" – a Dan Rather equivalent, say – asks why China is building airstrips in the South China Sea.

The answer ought to be glaringly obvious. The United States is encircling China with a network of bases, with ballistic missiles, battle groups, nuclear-armed bombers.

This lethal arc extends from Australia to the islands of the Pacific, the Marianas and the Marshalls and Guam, to the Philippines, Thailand, Okinawa, Korea and across Eurasia to Afghanistan and India. America has hung a noose around the neck of China. This is not news. Silence by media; war by media.

In 2015, in high secrecy, the US and Australia staged the biggest single air-sea military exercise in recent history, known as Talisman Sabre. Its aim was to rehearse an Air-Sea Battle Plan, blocking sea lanes, such as the Straits of Malacca and the Lombok Straits, that cut off China's access to oil, gas and other vital raw materials from the Middle East and Africa.

In the circus known as the American presidential campaign, Donald Trump is being presented as a lunatic, a fascist. He is certainly odious; but he is also a media hate figure. That alone should arouse our scepticism.

Trump's views on migration are grotesque, but no more grotesque than those of David Cameron. It is not Trump who is the Great Deporter from the United States, but the Nobel Peace Prize winner, Barack Obama.

According to one prodigious liberal commentator, Trump is "unleashing the dark forces of violence" in the United States. Unleashing them?

This is the country where toddlers shoot their mothers and the police wage a murderous war against black Americans. This is the country that has attacked and sought to overthrow more than 50 governments, many of them democracies, and bombed from Asia to the Middle East, causing the deaths and dispossession of millions of people.

No country can equal this systemic record of violence. Most of America's wars (almost all of them against defenceless countries) have been launched not by Republican presidents but by liberal Democrats: Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton, Obama.

In 1947, a series of National Security Council directives described the paramount aim of American foreign policy as "a world substantially made over in [America's] own image". The ideology was messianic Americanism. We were all Americans. Or else. Heretics would be converted, subverted, bribed, smeared or crushed.

Donald Trump is a symptom of this, but he is also a maverick. He says the invasion of Iraq was a crime; he doesn't want to go to war with Russia and China. The danger to the rest of us is not Trump, but Hillary Clinton. She is no maverick. She embodies the resilience and violence of a system whose vaunted "exceptionalism" is totalitarian with an occasional liberal face.

As presidential election day draws near, Clinton will be hailed as the first female president, regardless of her crimes and lies – just as Barack Obama was lauded as the first black president and liberals swallowed his nonsense about "hope". And the drool goes on.
new matilda, drone

Described by the Guardian columnist Owen Jones as "funny, charming, with a coolness that eludes practically every other politician", Obama the other day sent drones to slaughter 150 people in Somalia. He kills people usually on Tuesdays, according to the New York Times, when he is handed a list of candidates for death by drone. So cool.

In the 2008 presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton threatened to "totally obliterate" Iran with nuclear weapons. As Secretary of State under Obama, she participated in the overthrow of the democratic government of Honduras. Her contribution to the destruction of Libya in 2011 was almost gleeful. When the Libyan leader, Colonel Gaddafi, was publicly sodomised with a knife – a murder made possible by American logistics – Clinton gloated over his death: "We came, we saw, he died."

One of Clinton's closest allies is Madeleine Albright, the former Secretary of State, who has attacked young women for not supporting "Hillary". This is the same Madeleine Albright who infamously celebrated on TV the death of half a million Iraqi children as "worth it".

Among Clinton's biggest backers are the Israel lobby and the arms companies that fuel the violence in the Middle East. She and her husband have received a fortune from Wall Street. And yet, she is about to be ordained the women's candidate, to see off the evil Trump, the official demon. Her supporters include distinguished feminists: the likes of Gloria Steinem in the US and Anne Summers in Australia.

A generation ago, a post-modern cult now known as "identity politics" stopped many intelligent, liberal-minded people examining the causes and individuals they supported – such as the fakery of Obama and Clinton; such as bogus progressive movements like Syriza in Greece, which betrayed the people of that country and allied with their enemies.

Self-absorption, a kind of "me-ism", became the new zeitgeist in privileged western societies and signalled the demise of great collective movements against war, social injustice, inequality, racism and sexism.

Today, the long sleep may be over. The young are stirring again. Gradually. The thousands in Britain who supported Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader are part of this awakening – as are those who rallied to support Senator Bernie Sanders.

In Britain last week, Jeremy Corbyn's closest ally, his shadow treasurer John McDonnell, committed a Labour government to pay off the debts of piratical banks and, in effect, to continue so-called austerity.

In the US, Bernie Sanders has promised to support Clinton if or when she's nominated. He, too, has voted for America's use of violence against countries when he thinks it's "right". He says Obama has done "a great job".

In Australia, there is a kind of mortuary politics, in which tedious parliamentary games are played out in the media while refugees and Indigenous people are persecuted and inequality grows, along with the danger of war. The government of Malcolm Turnbull has just announced a so-called defence budget of $195 billion that is a drive to war. There was no debate. Silence.

What has happened to the great tradition of popular direct action, unfettered to parties? Where is the courage, imagination and commitment required to begin the long journey to a better, just and peaceful world? Where are the dissidents in art, film, the theatre, literature?

Where are those who will shatter the silence? Or do we wait until the first nuclear missile is fired?

JohnPilger.com – the films and journalism of John Pilger
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 27, 2016, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: passedit on July 27, 2016, 10:06:56 PM


In 2009, President Obama stood before an adoring crowd in the centre of Prague, in the heart of Europe. He pledged himself to make "the world free from nuclear weapons". People cheered and some cried. A torrent of platitudes flowed from the media. Obama was subsequently awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.


There's a few fools on here who think the sun shines out of his hole.

Bob Dylan's "Masters of War" is fairly apt in this case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 11:58:02 PM
To be fair, Reagan was pretty successful in eliminating nukes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2016, 02:17:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2016, 08:08:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2016, 08:05:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2016, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2016, 05:03:05 PM
So Trump has said that it's an indictment on America's security if Russia did hack leak the DNC emails but then says this . . .

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/758327323888201729

Top Presidenting there I'd say!!

Can you imagine if Obama called on a foreign government to hack a domestic political opponent? You know what'd happen to the conservative commentators?

(http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-id/1431114654163272.gif)

Ah come on... He says plenty of idiotic, ignorant, outrageous shit every day. No need to overreact to a clear joke.

I'm more concerned about the fact that she deleted 30000 emails even though they were under suponea.

Seems like he was actually serious. Even Paul Ryan made a statement.

Oh well.

I honestly couldn't see him saying something like that except as a joke. Apparently I was wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 28, 2016, 02:50:20 AM
Joe Biden is some pup.

If he'd have ran - this election would be already over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 28, 2016, 03:11:29 AM
Bloomberg " we need a sane candidate"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 28, 2016, 04:02:39 AM
If you are fucked with Clinton, you're going to be proper fucked with Drumpf...

With 400 million people in the country why are we faced with a lesser of two evils choice.

I have to agree with Bloomberg, sanity should beer tested before anyone gets the  presidency of the united states

Hey Russia, please hack my opponent. Whoop whoop. I know  this is the 30th times I have asked this, but could *that finally be there straw that breaks the camel's back?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 28, 2016, 04:09:53 AM
Who is that young fella speaking now? Community organizer out of Chicago? Should have him run, I think he would do a good job as president. Speaks very well. Might be able to do something about healthcare, maybe the economy, maybe finally get Osama. There's no way he could get the Dow back up there could he? Not with the Republican lock in DC.
Bad idea
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.

Shouldn't we be fucked by now after Obama's reelection?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 28, 2016, 01:58:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.

Shouldn't we be fucked by now after Obama's reelection?
White blue collar men are increasingly either drinking themselves to death or taking their own lives.
http://scholar.princeton.edu/deaton/publications/rising-Morbidity-And-Mortality-Midlife-Among-White-Non-Hispanic-Americans-21St
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 28, 2016, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.

Shouldn't we be fucked by now after Obama's reelection?

Given the hand he was dealt he's done a decent enough job, but the long term prognosis of the outstanding federal debt is terrifying

https://informationstation.org/kitchen_table_econ/the-u-s-is-now-18-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=googlegrants2015&gclid=CLKKu6e3ls4CFUFZhgodOQwC4g
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 28, 2016, 05:30:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2016, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.

Shouldn't we be fucked by now after Obama's reelection?

Given the hand he was dealt he's done a decent enough job, but the long term prognosis of the outstanding federal debt is terrifying

https://informationstation.org/kitchen_table_econ/the-u-s-is-now-18-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=googlegrants2015&gclid=CLKKu6e3ls4CFUFZhgodOQwC4g

Good to see everyone getting along here now, great stuff lads, enjoy the football this weekend. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 28, 2016, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2016, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.

Shouldn't we be fucked by now after Obama's reelection?

Given the hand he was dealt he's done a decent enough job, but the long term prognosis of the outstanding federal debt is terrifying

https://informationstation.org/kitchen_table_econ/the-u-s-is-now-18-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=googlegrants2015&gclid=CLKKu6e3ls4CFUFZhgodOQwC4g
They can reduce its value by having inflation and zero interest rates like they did in the 50s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on July 28, 2016, 09:17:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 28, 2016, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2016, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.

Shouldn't we be fucked by now after Obama's reelection?

Given the hand he was dealt he's done a decent enough job, but the long term prognosis of the outstanding federal debt is terrifying

https://informationstation.org/kitchen_table_econ/the-u-s-is-now-18-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=googlegrants2015&gclid=CLKKu6e3ls4CFUFZhgodOQwC4g
They can reduce its value by having inflation and zero interest rates like they did in the 50s

How will they inflate it Seafoid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 10:52:23 AM
http://nypost.com/2016/07/30/why-white-trash-americans-are-flocking-to-donald-trump/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 10:54:07 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 28, 2016, 09:17:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 28, 2016, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2016, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.

Shouldn't we be fucked by now after Obama's reelection?

Given the hand he was dealt he's done a decent enough job, but the long term prognosis of the outstanding federal debt is terrifying

https://informationstation.org/kitchen_table_econ/the-u-s-is-now-18-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=googlegrants2015&gclid=CLKKu6e3ls4CFUFZhgodOQwC4g
They can reduce its value by having inflation and zero interest rates like they did in the 50s

How will they inflate it Seafoid?
By taxing the rich, Muppet
Because there is a hole in the bucket !

The 1% own 42% of everything. So tax them at 20% extra . It is not like they are doing anything with the money

It is all part of a very long economic cycle

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2016, 01:03:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 10:52:23 AM
http://nypost.com/2016/07/30/why-white-trash-americans-are-flocking-to-donald-trump/

That article does nothing except suggest that these people are deluded.

Manufacturing and assembly line jobs are not coming back to the US. Cheaper wages elsewhere and automation have put paid to that, allowing all this stuff to be sold to the public for much lower prices. All the bullshit in the world about trade deficits and tarriffs isn't going to change that. Same with coal mining, which has been declining for decades due to competition with other energy forms and is destroying their landscape anyway.

Yeah, maybe they think the Dems are condescending and don't address the issues of jobs as they would like, but at the same time they aren't smart enough to recognize bullshit and condescension in the form of Trump's demagoguing and false promises.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CiKe on July 31, 2016, 02:08:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 10:54:07 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 28, 2016, 09:17:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 28, 2016, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2016, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.

Shouldn't we be fucked by now after Obama's reelection?

Given the hand he was dealt he's done a decent enough job, but the long term prognosis of the outstanding federal debt is terrifying

https://informationstation.org/kitchen_table_econ/the-u-s-is-now-18-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=googlegrants2015&gclid=CLKKu6e3ls4CFUFZhgodOQwC4g
They can reduce its value by having inflation and zero interest rates like they did in the 50s

How will they inflate it Seafoid?
By taxing the rich, Muppet
Because there is a hole in the bucket !

The 1% own 42% of everything. So tax them at 20% extra . It is not like they are doing anything with the money

It is all part of a very long economic cycle

So tax and government spend or what? Tax on rich without spend is by itself deflationary as reduces spend. Do you mean tax rich and splurge on infrastructure?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 11:11:17 PM
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Clinton-Emails-Reveal-Direct-US-Sabotage-of-Venezuela-20160726-0041.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 11:14:50 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 31, 2016, 02:08:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 10:54:07 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 28, 2016, 09:17:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 28, 2016, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2016, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 28, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
She has shag all credibility. Zero. Full stop.
Listening to Kaine talking now about how she is worried about poor and underprivileged is a fin joke.
Google Clinton foundation for some interesting info.
Liberal media in overdrive.
It is now Russia's fault.
Trump not my first choice, but four more years of this and we are fuc*ed.

Shouldn't we be fucked by now after Obama's reelection?

Given the hand he was dealt he's done a decent enough job, but the long term prognosis of the outstanding federal debt is terrifying

https://informationstation.org/kitchen_table_econ/the-u-s-is-now-18-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=googlegrants2015&gclid=CLKKu6e3ls4CFUFZhgodOQwC4g
They can reduce its value by having inflation and zero interest rates like they did in the 50s

How will they inflate it Seafoid?
By taxing the rich, Muppet
Because there is a hole in the bucket !

The 1% own 42% of everything. So tax them at 20% extra . It is not like they are doing anything with the money

It is all part of a very long economic cycle

So tax and government spend or what? Tax on rich without spend is by itself deflationary as reduces spend. Do you mean tax rich and splurge on infrastructure?
Tax on unused wealth and redistribute via funded tax credits. Or else invest in a serious rebuild to get the money back in the economy where it is recycled via wages. Or just get the Government to build industries to deliver what the private sector will not. Loads of options. all of the neoliberal arguments against the public sector are bollocks when the private sector refuses to invest.
There has been 9tn in QE and the economy is stagnant. 1.2% growth in Q2. The Fed cannot generate growth with the current system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 02, 2016, 02:48:15 AM
Who won the election lads, very quiet on here of late, hmmm.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 02, 2016, 05:50:44 AM
?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 02, 2016, 05:50:44 AM
?

Oh sorry, it has been so qulet on here I thought maybe the election was over.

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 02, 2016, 09:10:25 AM
Now Clinton is the devil. The sophistication of the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 02, 2016, 09:20:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 02, 2016, 09:10:25 AM
Now Clinton is the devil. The sophistication of the US.

Both of them are devil's.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on August 02, 2016, 10:27:29 AM
Don't mention this to Donald

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/world/ted-hakey-jr-learned-mosque-fired-30-shots-forgave/ (https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/world/ted-hakey-jr-learned-mosque-fired-30-shots-forgave/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2016, 01:40:58 PM
Barring some major event, the election cycle is going to continue as is. Every week or two, Trump will not be able to resist from responding to some perceived sleight and will go completely over the top in lashing out, knocking another point off his polling as he demonstrates how petty and temperamentally ill suited he is to the position. Clinton will move steadily along, parrying away questions about the emails and holding her own in the face of Trump's deep seated need to smash down each and every question raised about his bullshit.

From the GOP perspective, they really have to be kicking themselves about what might have been. Even if Trump wins, he clearly is not up to the job. Third world strongman maybe, but president of a free western democracy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Zulu on August 02, 2016, 02:06:38 PM
I'm only watching this from afar, largely for the entertainment value the batshit crazy way US politics is, but has Trump not moved a lot of his manufacturing jobs to China etc. and if so why do we not hear a presidential candidate who always talks about bringing jobs back to America not get challenged on this more? Letterman did...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYoOPgeTMQc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 02, 2016, 02:12:58 PM
In a new approach, Drumpf has cemented his BS with his fans by now stating that the election will be rigged. And borrowing from the Ailes playbook his team are saying there will be a bloodbath to follow the election if he doesn't win.


Now there scary thing about this is that trump voters really only know other trump voters, and with that experience they will firmly believe that the result should have been a trump landslide.


This is what happens when politicians are able to express opinions as facts and nobody called them on it...

QuoteRoger Stone, a long time confidante of Trump, amplified these concerns in an interview with a far right wing radio show.

Stone said: "I think we have widespread voter fraud, but the first thing that Trump needs to do is begin talking about it constantly."
Laying out a strategy for Trump to adopt, Stone added: "He needs to say for example, today would be a perfect example: 'I am leading in Florida. The polls all show it. If I lose Florida, we will know that there's voter fraud. If there's voter fraud, this election will be illegitimate, the election of the winner will be illegitimate, we will have a constitutional crisis, widespread civil disobedience, and the government will no longer be the government.'"


Who supports Donald Trump? The new Republican center of gravity
Read more
He also promised a "bloodbath" if the Democrats attempted to "steal" the election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 02, 2016, 04:33:23 PM
Every time I see Trump he is talking to his Base in a parallel reality.
Very Fox echo chamber . Very Roger Ailes. No facts just narratives.
But women and Latinos do not live in Fox world. So he hasn't a hope.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

BLM — racists protesting racism

Unreal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/27/caught-on-video-black-lives-matter-literally-orders-white-people-to-the-back-of-protest/

Over to you Eamon and J70 ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 02, 2016, 06:57:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 02, 2016, 04:33:23 PM
Every time I see Trump he is talking to his Base in a parallel reality.
Very Fox echo chamber . Very Roger Ailes. No facts just narratives.
But women and Latinos do not live in Fox world. So he hasn't a hope.

Somewhere between a 1 in 3 and a 1 in 4 chance, according to these:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/upshot/presidential-polls-forecast.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/upshot/presidential-polls-forecast.html?_r=0)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/ (http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

BLM — racists protesting racism

Unreal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/27/caught-on-video-black-lives-matter-literally-orders-white-people-to-the-back-of-protest/

Over to you Eamon and J70 ;)

Well, I did a little research, sans the Fox News/Blaze/Breitbart slant, and there seems to be controversy even among themselves about what the white participation should be I.e. Should it be blacks only at the lead and leadership of protests, or is it appropriate that white people be front and centre too. I guess not all are diplomatic about their feelings e.g. This particular lady. I guess she doesn't buy into the Hollywood white saviour cliche.

Now, tell me what I SHOULD be thinking. I'm sure it's sophisticated and nuanced as usual!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

BLM — racists protesting racism

Unreal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/27/caught-on-video-black-lives-matter-literally-orders-white-people-to-the-back-of-protest/

Over to you Eamon and J70 ;)

Well, I did a little research, sans the Fox News/Blaze/Breitbart slant, and there seems to be controversy even among themselves about what the white participation should be I.e. Should it be blacks only at the lead and leadership of protests, or is it appropriate that white people be front and centre too. I guess not all are diplomatic about their feelings e.g. This particular lady. I guess she doesn't buy into the Hollywood white saviour cliche.

Now, tell me what I SHOULD be thinking. I'm sure it's sophisticated and nuanced as usual!

"not all are diplomatic about their feelings"

You couldn't bring yourself to say it's plain old racism. But it's ok in your opinion.

Had the shoe been on the other foot. Rosa parks springs to mind.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

BLM — racists protesting racism

Unreal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/27/caught-on-video-black-lives-matter-literally-orders-white-people-to-the-back-of-protest/

Over to you Eamon and J70 ;)

Well, I did a little research, sans the Fox News/Blaze/Breitbart slant, and there seems to be controversy even among themselves about what the white participation should be I.e. Should it be blacks only at the lead and leadership of protests, or is it appropriate that white people be front and centre too. I guess not all are diplomatic about their feelings e.g. This particular lady. I guess she doesn't buy into the Hollywood white saviour cliche.

Now, tell me what I SHOULD be thinking. I'm sure it's sophisticated and nuanced as usual!

"not all are diplomatic about their feelings"

You couldn't bring yourself to say it's plain old racism. But it's ok in your opinion.

Had the shoe been on the other foot. Rosa parks springs to mind.

Is it racist to want black people to be at the head of a movement protesting what they think is prejudiced action against black people?

Would it have been sexist for women to insist that women lead some feminist or women's lib protest?

The thing with the shoe on the other foot is that black people really WERE forced down the back of the bus. They really WERE victims of segregation.

So no, there is no equivalence.

Which is not to say this particular woman isn't racist. She could be. But what happened here doesn't prove that, at least not the details presented. If you have info to shed light on her motives, go for it.

And I didn't say "it's ok". I didn't make a judgement either way, because I don't enough to base a judgement on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 02, 2016, 07:53:41 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 02, 2016, 02:12:58 PM
In a new approach, Drumpf has cemented his BS with his fans by now stating that the election will be rigged. And borrowing from the Ailes playbook his team are saying there will be a bloodbath to follow the election if he doesn't win.


Now there scary thing about this is that trump voters really only know other trump voters, and with that experience they will firmly believe that the result should have been a trump landslide.


This is what happens when politicians are able to express opinions as facts and nobody called them on it...

QuoteRoger Stone, a long time confidante of Trump, amplified these concerns in an interview with a far right wing radio show.

Stone said: "I think we have widespread voter fraud, but the first thing that Trump needs to do is begin talking about it constantly."
Laying out a strategy for Trump to adopt, Stone added: "He needs to say for example, today would be a perfect example: 'I am leading in Florida. The polls all show it. If I lose Florida, we will know that there's voter fraud. If there's voter fraud, this election will be illegitimate, the election of the winner will be illegitimate, we will have a constitutional crisis, widespread civil disobedience, and the government will no longer be the government.'"


Who supports Donald Trump? The new Republican center of gravity
Read more
He also promised a "bloodbath" if the Democrats attempted to "steal" the election.

Clinton rigged the primary run off.

Nothing is beneath Clinton, co,e to think of it heganboy neither would you, you are dangerous because my blithely pass of lies as truth, an example of this is trump supportera only know other trump supporters, you are talking bullocks on that score.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 02, 2016, 07:58:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

BLM — racists protesting racism

Unreal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/27/caught-on-video-black-lives-matter-literally-orders-white-people-to-the-back-of-protest/

Over to you Eamon and J70 ;)

Well, I did a little research, sans the Fox News/Blaze/Breitbart slant, and there seems to be controversy even among themselves about what the white participation should be I.e. Should it be blacks only at the lead and leadership of protests, or is it appropriate that white people be front and centre too. I guess not all are diplomatic about their feelings e.g. This particular lady. I guess she doesn't buy into the Hollywood white saviour cliche.

Now, tell me what I SHOULD be thinking. I'm sure it's sophisticated and nuanced as usual!

"not all are diplomatic about their feelings"

You couldn't bring yourself to say it's plain old racism. But it's ok in your opinion.

Had the shoe been on the other foot. Rosa parks springs to mind.

Actually Donald Trump springs to mind a lot quicker than Rosa Parks.

This is precisely the type of rhetoric Trump has engaged in. Except he didn't want them 'put them to the back', he wanted people to 'knock the crap out of them' and throw them out completely. He even offered to cover their legal fees.

So if you are genuinely looking for true malicious racism, instead of your usual poorly balanced whataboutery, you can start with your hero.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 08:22:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

BLM — racists protesting racism

Unreal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/27/caught-on-video-black-lives-matter-literally-orders-white-people-to-the-back-of-protest/

Over to you Eamon and J70 ;)

Well, I did a little research, sans the Fox News/Blaze/Breitbart slant, and there seems to be controversy even among themselves about what the white participation should be I.e. Should it be blacks only at the lead and leadership of protests, or is it appropriate that white people be front and centre too. I guess not all are diplomatic about their feelings e.g. This particular lady. I guess she doesn't buy into the Hollywood white saviour cliche.

Now, tell me what I SHOULD be thinking. I'm sure it's sophisticated and nuanced as usual!

"not all are diplomatic about their feelings"

You couldn't bring yourself to say it's plain old racism. But it's ok in your opinion.

Had the shoe been on the other foot. Rosa parks springs to mind.

Is it racist to want black people to be at the head of a movement protesting what they think is prejudiced action against black people?

Would it have been sexist for women to insist that women lead some feminist or women's lib protest?

The thing with the shoe on the other foot is that black people really WERE forced down the back of the bus. They really WERE victims of segregation.

So no, there is no equivalence.

Which is not to say this particular woman isn't racist. She could be. But what happened here doesn't prove that, at least not the details presented. If you have info to shed light on her motives, go for it.

And I didn't say "it's ok". I didn't make a judgement either way, because I don't enough to base a judgement on.

This woman is calling for segregation of the crowd judged by the colour of their skin. Then the crowd also turn on the white people present because of this.

I thought the point of all this was to prevent anyone from being told to go to the back of the bus. Doesn't appear to be the case, if anything it's payback time, even starting with their own supporters.

You haven't the guts to call it what it is.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 08:30:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 02, 2016, 07:58:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

BLM — racists protesting racism

Unreal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/27/caught-on-video-black-lives-matter-literally-orders-white-people-to-the-back-of-protest/

Over to you Eamon and J70 ;)

Well, I did a little research, sans the Fox News/Blaze/Breitbart slant, and there seems to be controversy even among themselves about what the white participation should be I.e. Should it be blacks only at the lead and leadership of protests, or is it appropriate that white people be front and centre too. I guess not all are diplomatic about their feelings e.g. This particular lady. I guess she doesn't buy into the Hollywood white saviour cliche.

Now, tell me what I SHOULD be thinking. I'm sure it's sophisticated and nuanced as usual!

"not all are diplomatic about their feelings"

You couldn't bring yourself to say it's plain old racism. But it's ok in your opinion.

Had the shoe been on the other foot. Rosa parks springs to mind.

Actually Donald Trump springs to mind a lot quicker than Rosa Parks.

This is precisely the type of rhetoric Trump has engaged in. Except he didn't want them 'put them to the back', he wanted people to 'knock the crap out of them' and throw them out completely. He even offered to cover their legal fees.

So if you are genuinely looking for true malicious racism, instead of your usual poorly balanced whataboutery, you can start with your hero.

You're making a poor attempt to find an excuse for this behaviour.

The pure hatred that is being promoted only serves to show this movement isn't one that is based on justice for all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 02, 2016, 08:40:41 PM
My attempt was poor?

You are equating asking white people to move back at a black protest, to Rosa Parks during Constitutional Segregation ffs.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:17:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 08:22:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

BLM — racists protesting racism

Unreal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/27/caught-on-video-black-lives-matter-literally-orders-white-people-to-the-back-of-protest/

Over to you Eamon and J70 ;)

Well, I did a little research, sans the Fox News/Blaze/Breitbart slant, and there seems to be controversy even among themselves about what the white participation should be I.e. Should it be blacks only at the lead and leadership of protests, or is it appropriate that white people be front and centre too. I guess not all are diplomatic about their feelings e.g. This particular lady. I guess she doesn't buy into the Hollywood white saviour cliche.

Now, tell me what I SHOULD be thinking. I'm sure it's sophisticated and nuanced as usual!

"not all are diplomatic about their feelings"

You couldn't bring yourself to say it's plain old racism. But it's ok in your opinion.

Had the shoe been on the other foot. Rosa parks springs to mind.

Is it racist to want black people to be at the head of a movement protesting what they think is prejudiced action against black people?

Would it have been sexist for women to insist that women lead some feminist or women's lib protest?

The thing with the shoe on the other foot is that black people really WERE forced down the back of the bus. They really WERE victims of segregation.

So no, there is no equivalence.

Which is not to say this particular woman isn't racist. She could be. But what happened here doesn't prove that, at least not the details presented. If you have info to shed light on her motives, go for it.

And I didn't say "it's ok". I didn't make a judgement either way, because I don't enough to base a judgement on.

This woman is calling for segregation of the crowd judged by the colour of their skin. Then the crowd also turn on the white people present because of this.

I thought the point of all this was to prevent anyone from being told to go to the back of the bus. Doesn't appear to be the case, if anything it's payback time, even starting with their own supporters.

You haven't the guts to call it what it is.

Haven't got the guts on an anonymous Internet forum? Are you f**king serious?? ;D

If they didn't want them at all, surely they would just tell them to f**k off??

Why don't you answer my questions from the last post, e.g. about a feminist march being led by women?

Or do YOU lack the guts?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:17:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 02, 2016, 08:40:41 PM
My attempt was poor?

You are equating asking white people to move back at a black protest, to Rosa Parks during Constitutional Segregation ffs.

So they weren't practising segregation in that video?? What was it based on then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:21:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:17:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 02, 2016, 08:40:41 PM
My attempt was poor?

You are equating asking white people to move back at a black protest, to Rosa Parks during Constitutional Segregation ffs.

So they weren't practising segregation in that video?? What was it based on then?

The issue is WHY.

With Rosa Parks and Jim Crow it's clear why. Pure, simple, white supremacy.

Like I said, if you have evidence of this woman's motives for wanting black people front and centre, post it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:24:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:17:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 08:22:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 08:57:14 AM

Anyhoo in related news, those pesky people black lives matter has come up with a list of demands, reparations for blacks, the war on black lives has to end, more political power all over the country and it goes on and on.

I see black lives matter has a rally where white people were told to March at the back, black and brown people were told to march at the front, I guess it's the same old same old from the left.

BLM — racists protesting racism

Unreal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/27/caught-on-video-black-lives-matter-literally-orders-white-people-to-the-back-of-protest/

Over to you Eamon and J70 ;)

Well, I did a little research, sans the Fox News/Blaze/Breitbart slant, and there seems to be controversy even among themselves about what the white participation should be I.e. Should it be blacks only at the lead and leadership of protests, or is it appropriate that white people be front and centre too. I guess not all are diplomatic about their feelings e.g. This particular lady. I guess she doesn't buy into the Hollywood white saviour cliche.

Now, tell me what I SHOULD be thinking. I'm sure it's sophisticated and nuanced as usual!

"not all are diplomatic about their feelings"

You couldn't bring yourself to say it's plain old racism. But it's ok in your opinion.

Had the shoe been on the other foot. Rosa parks springs to mind.

Is it racist to want black people to be at the head of a movement protesting what they think is prejudiced action against black people?

Would it have been sexist for women to insist that women lead some feminist or women's lib protest?

The thing with the shoe on the other foot is that black people really WERE forced down the back of the bus. They really WERE victims of segregation.

So no, there is no equivalence.

Which is not to say this particular woman isn't racist. She could be. But what happened here doesn't prove that, at least not the details presented. If you have info to shed light on her motives, go for it.

And I didn't say "it's ok". I didn't make a judgement either way, because I don't enough to base a judgement on.

This woman is calling for segregation of the crowd judged by the colour of their skin. Then the crowd also turn on the white people present because of this.

I thought the point of all this was to prevent anyone from being told to go to the back of the bus. Doesn't appear to be the case, if anything it's payback time, even starting with their own supporters.

You haven't the guts to call it what it is.

Haven't got the guts on an anonymous Internet forum? Are you f**king serious?? ;D

If they didn't want them at all, surely they would just tell them to f**k off??

Why don't you answer my questions from the last post, e.g. about a feminist march being led by women?

Or do YOU lack the guts?

I didn't answer your question as I found it a ridiculous attempt by you to try claw back some credibility (which you've been exposed badly on)

It wasn't a case of just "leading" the protest, it was a demand that some people "take your rightful positions, and get behind us."

justify that one ;)




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:29:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:21:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:17:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 02, 2016, 08:40:41 PM
My attempt was poor?

You are equating asking white people to move back at a black protest, to Rosa Parks during Constitutional Segregation ffs.

So they weren't practising segregation in that video?? What was it based on then?

The issue is WHY.

With Rosa Parks and Jim Crow it's clear why. Pure, simple, white supremacy.

Like I said, if you have evidence of this woman's motives for wanting black people front and centre, post it.

Her word are evidence enough. I suggest you clean out your ears and listen to it again.

Selective hearing J70?


And you still defend it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Changed your post I see... It's no longer " back where you belong"...

Finished scrambling?

"Rightful positions behind us"?

That doesn't prove anything?

So far all you have is some hot headed, rude, tone deaf, in your face black people wanting black people leading the march. That's it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:42:21 PM
PS I might have told her to stick her march up her hole had I been there myself, given her tone, but that doesn't make her racist. Just rude and unappreciative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Changed your post I see... It's no longer " back where you belong"...

Finished scrambling?

"Rightful positions behind us"?

That doesn't prove anything?

So far all you have is some hot headed, rude, tone deaf, in your face black people wanting black people leading the march. That's it.

I changed it to her exact wording. Sue me.

So now you've said this woman is "hot headed and rude"?!?! LOL!

She demanded that white people go to the back to take up "Rightful positions behind us". Isn't that discrimination based on ??

Try again and use the correct term to describe it. You've avoided it so far. Showing yourself up that you can't tell the truth when it's captured on camera for all to see.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:47:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:42:21 PM
PS I might have told her to stick her march up her hole had I been there myself, given her tone, but that doesn't make her racist. Just rude and unappreciative.

No - just racist. And the crowd then started to pick on the white folk present because of her demand. Listen again.

I don't know why anyone would want to join in a protest movement who's aim is to treat you as a second class citizen.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:52:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Changed your post I see... It's no longer " back where you belong"...

Finished scrambling?

"Rightful positions behind us"?

That doesn't prove anything?

So far all you have is some hot headed, rude, tone deaf, in your face black people wanting black people leading the march. That's it.

I changed it to her exact wording. Sue me.

So now you've said this woman is "hot headed and rude"?!?! LOL!

She demanded that white people go to the back to take up "Rightful positions behind us". Isn't that discrimination based on ??

Try again and use the correct term to describe it. You've avoided it so far. Showing yourself up that you can't tell the truth when it's captured on camera for all to see.



This is where your cowardice comes into it. By definition, she is discriminating, but so would the feminist marchers who insisted on women leading things. So the motive matters. Except you can't allow that for whatever reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 02, 2016, 09:54:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:17:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 02, 2016, 08:40:41 PM
My attempt was poor?

You are equating asking white people to move back at a black protest, to Rosa Parks during Constitutional Segregation ffs.

So they weren't practising segregation in that video?? What was it based on then?

We don't know. It is a video of some meaningless sh*te somewhere in poor America.

This evidence, seems to be one person, somewhere in Philly with a megaphone. Notice there is little or no cheering. There is the odd woman agreeing, it seems, but it is hard to tell. In fact all you can really see is people holding recording devices. Not much of a crowd of supporters is there? They are very quiet if they are there. This isn't Donald Trump being cheered on live on National TV.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:57:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:52:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Changed your post I see... It's no longer " back where you belong"...

Finished scrambling?

"Rightful positions behind us"?

That doesn't prove anything?

So far all you have is some hot headed, rude, tone deaf, in your face black people wanting black people leading the march. That's it.

I changed it to her exact wording. Sue me.

So now you've said this woman is "hot headed and rude"?!?! LOL!

She demanded that white people go to the back to take up "Rightful positions behind us". Isn't that discrimination based on ??

Try again and use the correct term to describe it. You've avoided it so far. Showing yourself up that you can't tell the truth when it's captured on camera for all to see.



This is where your cowardice comes into it. By definition, she is discriminating, but so would the feminist marchers who insisted on women leading things. So the motive matters. Except you can't allow that for whatever reason.

Hooray! you've semi-acknowledged that she's discriminating (but just haven't defined it properly!)

Reason is clear enough for those who open their ears. You've making excuses and made a tit out of yourself defending it.

I don't know why you keep bringing the feminist movement into it to try justify yourself. I didn't mention it. Stick to the facts of the story in question, not some imaginary scenario in your head.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 02, 2016, 10:03:31 PM
Why is there no cheering?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2016, 10:04:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:57:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:52:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Changed your post I see... It's no longer " back where you belong"...

Finished scrambling?

"Rightful positions behind us"?

That doesn't prove anything?

So far all you have is some hot headed, rude, tone deaf, in your face black people wanting black people leading the march. That's it.

I changed it to her exact wording. Sue me.

So now you've said this woman is "hot headed and rude"?!?! LOL!

She demanded that white people go to the back to take up "Rightful positions behind us". Isn't that discrimination based on ??

Try again and use the correct term to describe it. You've avoided it so far. Showing yourself up that you can't tell the truth when it's captured on camera for all to see.



This is where your cowardice comes into it. By definition, she is discriminating, but so would the feminist marchers who insisted on women leading things. So the motive matters. Except you can't allow that for whatever reason.

Hooray! you've semi-acknowledged that she's discriminating (but just haven't defined it properly!)

Reason is clear enough for those who open their ears. You've making excuses and made a tit out of yourself defending it.

I don't know why you keep bringing the feminist movement into it to try justify yourself. I didn't mention it. Stick to the facts of the story in question, not some imaginary scenario in your head.

The only one making a tit of themselves is you with your childish dismissal of an obvious analogy and dumb, blinkered insistence on knowing someone's motives based on a 30 second video clip.

But then you're not really known here for offering anything beyond showing up once a week to sneer about black lives matter and related issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 02, 2016, 10:11:37 PM
I see Trump ordered a woman and her baby to get out of one of his beer hall sessions.

Along with claiming that if he loses the election, it will be because of voter fraud and that there will be civil unrest.

In most countries this lunatic would be warned about seditious comments like that. Why is it not happening here?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 10:04:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:57:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:52:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Changed your post I see... It's no longer " back where you belong"...

Finished scrambling?

"Rightful positions behind us"?

That doesn't prove anything?

So far all you have is some hot headed, rude, tone deaf, in your face black people wanting black people leading the march. That's it.

I changed it to her exact wording. Sue me.

So now you've said this woman is "hot headed and rude"?!?! LOL!

She demanded that white people go to the back to take up "Rightful positions behind us". Isn't that discrimination based on ??

Try again and use the correct term to describe it. You've avoided it so far. Showing yourself up that you can't tell the truth when it's captured on camera for all to see.



This is where your cowardice comes into it. By definition, she is discriminating, but so would the feminist marchers who insisted on women leading things. So the motive matters. Except you can't allow that for whatever reason.

Hooray! you've semi-acknowledged that she's discriminating (but just haven't defined it properly!)

Reason is clear enough for those who open their ears. You've making excuses and made a tit out of yourself defending it.

I don't know why you keep bringing the feminist movement into it to try justify yourself. I didn't mention it. Stick to the facts of the story in question, not some imaginary scenario in your head.

The only one making a tit of themselves is you with your childish dismissal of an obvious analogy and dumb, blinkered insistence on knowing someone's motives based on a 30 second video clip.

But then you're not really known here for offering anything beyond showing up once a week to sneer about black lives matter and related issues.

You're not man enough to call it as it is. Exactly why I highlighted this. I knew you'd take the bait ;)

Where is the other apologist today?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 02, 2016, 10:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2016, 07:53:41 PM
Clinton rigged the primary run off.

Nothing is beneath Clinton, co,e to think of it heganboy neither would you, you are dangerous because my blithely pass of lies as truth, an example of this is trump supportera only know other trump supporters, you are talking bullocks on that score.

Stew,
not sure what you're asking me here? not sure where you think I am passing off lies as truth, not a big fan of that approach, and will happily correct where appropriate.

As I have said before - not a fan of either of these 2 candidates, however one is sane and competent (if untrustworthy and misguided) and the other is a certifiable delusional narcissist. Maybe they should keep Obama in for another couple of months while everybody goes off and seeks new candidates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2016, 12:21:57 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 10:04:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:57:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:52:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Changed your post I see... It's no longer " back where you belong"...

Finished scrambling?

"Rightful positions behind us"?

That doesn't prove anything?

So far all you have is some hot headed, rude, tone deaf, in your face black people wanting black people leading the march. That's it.

I changed it to her exact wording. Sue me.

So now you've said this woman is "hot headed and rude"?!?! LOL!

She demanded that white people go to the back to take up "Rightful positions behind us". Isn't that discrimination based on ??

Try again and use the correct term to describe it. You've avoided it so far. Showing yourself up that you can't tell the truth when it's captured on camera for all to see.



This is where your cowardice comes into it. By definition, she is discriminating, but so would the feminist marchers who insisted on women leading things. So the motive matters. Except you can't allow that for whatever reason.

Hooray! you've semi-acknowledged that she's discriminating (but just haven't defined it properly!)

Reason is clear enough for those who open their ears. You've making excuses and made a tit out of yourself defending it.

I don't know why you keep bringing the feminist movement into it to try justify yourself. I didn't mention it. Stick to the facts of the story in question, not some imaginary scenario in your head.

The only one making a tit of themselves is you with your childish dismissal of an obvious analogy and dumb, blinkered insistence on knowing someone's motives based on a 30 second video clip.

But then you're not really known here for offering anything beyond showing up once a week to sneer about black lives matter and related issues.

You're not man enough to call it as it is. Exactly why I highlighted this. I knew you'd take the bait ;)

Where is the other apologist today?

Take the bait??

You asked me a direct question. ;D

I've no problem answering questions.

Unlike yourself, chickenshit. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on August 03, 2016, 08:35:12 AM
Fascinating stuff in here  - https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood (https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 10:21:36 AM
Quote from: Declan on August 03, 2016, 08:35:12 AM
Fascinating stuff in here  - https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood (https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood)

Interesting reading alright saying the Trump camp is in disarray because he won't listen to them . . . Wow who would ever have thought that would happen?!

Nothing says your campaign is in disarray more than a 5am tweet saying "There is great unity in my campaign"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 03, 2016, 12:16:16 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/08/03/katrina-pierson-obama-trump-khan-war-cooper-intv-ac.cnn (http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/08/03/katrina-pierson-obama-trump-khan-war-cooper-intv-ac.cnn)

Trump's spokesperson blames an Obama action as President for Khan's death......

...in 2004.

So how will this blatant falsehood be managed by the Trump team? Will they do what would normally happen in this part of the world and distance themselves from an obvious gaffe (giving the benefit of the doubt).

Or will he say something like 'she is doing a great job'? Thereby apparently confirming the lie to the intellectually challenged that seem to gravitate in his direction.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 03, 2016, 12:16:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?
I could see Trump being assassinated if he were elected and went maverick
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on August 03, 2016, 01:20:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 12:21:57 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 10:04:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:57:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:52:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 02, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Changed your post I see... It's no longer " back where you belong"...

Finished scrambling?

"Rightful positions behind us"?

That doesn't prove anything?

So far all you have is some hot headed, rude, tone deaf, in your face black people wanting black people leading the march. That's it.

I changed it to her exact wording. Sue me.

So now you've said this woman is "hot headed and rude"?!?! LOL!

She demanded that white people go to the back to take up "Rightful positions behind us". Isn't that discrimination based on ??

Try again and use the correct term to describe it. You've avoided it so far. Showing yourself up that you can't tell the truth when it's captured on camera for all to see.



This is where your cowardice comes into it. By definition, she is discriminating, but so would the feminist marchers who insisted on women leading things. So the motive matters. Except you can't allow that for whatever reason.

Hooray! you've semi-acknowledged that she's discriminating (but just haven't defined it properly!)

Reason is clear enough for those who open their ears. You've making excuses and made a tit out of yourself defending it.

I don't know why you keep bringing the feminist movement into it to try justify yourself. I didn't mention it. Stick to the facts of the story in question, not some imaginary scenario in your head.

The only one making a tit of themselves is you with your childish dismissal of an obvious analogy and dumb, blinkered insistence on knowing someone's motives based on a 30 second video clip.

But then you're not really known here for offering anything beyond showing up once a week to sneer about black lives matter and related issues.

You're not man enough to call it as it is. Exactly why I highlighted this. I knew you'd take the bait ;)

Where is the other apologist today?

Take the bait??

You asked me a direct question. ;D

I've no problem answering questions.

Unlike yourself, chickenshit. ;)
J70, you're debating racism with a guy who said that when he calls Obama "The Kenyan", he doesn't mean it in a racist way !!

He says the Democrats are too left wing, yet he's a Shinner  !!
Ha Ha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?
trump has kids and grandkids of his own do u really think he would start a nuclear war ?
He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly
Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico  and putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.
Why would he start a nuclear war ? And the media talk about trumps scaremongering .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?
trump has kids and grandkids of his own do u really think he would start a nuclear war ?
He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly
Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico  and putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.
Why would he start a nuclear war ? And the media talk about trumps scaremongering .

What do you mean Obama has "deballed" the military? The US spend on the military is 4 times that of its nearest rival in China... It is a political boondoggle for defence companies and the NRA to keep the Government spending unnecessary money on unnecessary shit!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 03, 2016, 02:51:56 PM
If recent Republican Presidents are anything to go by, Trump would definitely start a war. It could be with anyone.

His behaviour is to lash out at anyone who criticises him. Imagine him in charge during a war. Bad news from the front, again....Nuke 'em!.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 03, 2016, 02:53:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 03, 2016, 02:51:56 PM
If recent Republican Presidents are anything to go by, Trump would definitely start a war. It could be with anyone.

His behaviour is to lash out at anyone who criticises him. Imagine him in charge during a war. Bad news from the front, again....Nuke 'em!.
Trump is not stable enough to be PotUS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on August 03, 2016, 03:29:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?
trump has kids and grandkids of his own do u really think he would start a nuclear war ?
He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly
Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico  and putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.
Why would he start a nuclear war ? And the media talk about trumps scaremongering .

Quick scan of this reveals everything that is wrong with the information being given to Trump supporters

He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly


For legal immigrants into the US, the Visa programmes are extremely strict (as most here in Ireland who tried to get a green card will know. let alone coming from places that don't have a visa waiver in place i.e most of the world). If you're talking about vetting refugees, the process is actually incredibly vigorous and can take up to 3 years to complete. In the end, a very small number of refugees are accepted for the US, thousands rather than tens of thousands.

Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico

Net migration between Mexico and America is actually in the minus numbers - i.e, more people leaving for Mexico than coming over the border

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

and Obama has deported more illegals than any other President, with a focus on deporting those with criminal records before they entered the country

http://blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/2015/02/25/tracking-obamas-deportation-numbers/

putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.


Well, if that is the case, why was the military so heavily represented at the DNC and so lightly at the RNC? There are reasons for a decline in defence spending, the two big ones being that Obama wound down the ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (or at least American involvement in them) and that the sequestration cuts which were originally a bipartisan agreed threat so that budget negotiators would agree a different deal, went into effect when the talks collapsed. Since then Obama has requested each year for a larger defence budget but not been given the amount that he has wanted - by a Congress controlled by the GOP.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/14/politifact-sheet-our-guide-to-military-spending-/

Facts are facts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 04:11:51 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 03, 2016, 03:29:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?
trump has kids and grandkids of his own do u really think he would start a nuclear war ?
He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly
Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico  and putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.
Why would he start a nuclear war ? And the media talk about trumps scaremongering .

Quick scan of this reveals everything that is wrong with the information being given to Trump supporters

He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly


For legal immigrants into the US, the Visa programmes are extremely strict (as most here in Ireland who tried to get a green card will know. let alone coming from places that don't have a visa waiver in place i.e most of the world). If you're talking about vetting refugees, the process is actually incredibly vigorous and can take up to 3 years to complete. In the end, a very small number of refugees are accepted for the US, thousands rather than tens of thousands.

Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico

Net migration between Mexico and America is actually in the minus numbers - i.e, more people leaving for Mexico than coming over the border

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

and Obama has deported more illegals than any other President, with a focus on deporting those with criminal records before they entered the country

http://blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/2015/02/25/tracking-obamas-deportation-numbers/

putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.


Well, if that is the case, why was the military so heavily represented at the DNC and so lightly at the RNC? There are reasons for a decline in defence spending, the two big ones being that Obama wound down the ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (or at least American involvement in them) and that the sequestration cuts which were originally a bipartisan agreed threat so that budget negotiators would agree a different deal, went into effect when the talks collapsed. Since then Obama has requested each year for a larger defence budget but not been given the amount that he has wanted - by a Congress controlled by the GOP.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/14/politifact-sheet-our-guide-to-military-spending-/

Facts are facts.

Not exactly depends on who spins them
Alot of illegal immigrants coming over the Mexican border are from guetamala and El Salvador and countries like that but if u think more Mexicans are going back to Mexico than coming u are dreaming.
I would not blame the republicans for not giving him any more money for the military because he would probably want to spend it on sex changes for transgenders or sensitivity training or giving Iran 400 million .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on August 03, 2016, 04:30:50 PM
Not exactly depends on who spins them
Alot of illegal immigrants coming over the Mexican border are from guetamala and El Salvador and countries like that but if u think more Mexicans are going back to Mexico than coming u are dreaming.
I would not blame the republicans for not giving him any more money for the military because he would probably want to spend it on sex changes for transgenders or sensitivity training or giving Iran 400 million .

Thanks for illustrating my point exactly Gmac. Facts are facts, no matter who spins them - that's what makes them facts. Which means when Donald says the US is being overrun by Mexicans (the spin) the facts ie the US is not being overrun with Mexicans - remain the same. And as for me dreaming - no, it's not me, I gave you a link from Pew Research, which is a highly reputable and non-partisan source. Yet you still deny it. Trumpus Erectus

I would not blame the republicans for not giving him any more money for the military because he would probably want to spend it on sex changes for transgenders or sensitivity training or giving Iran 400 million

Fantastically stupid - well done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 03, 2016, 04:34:18 PM
QuoteFacts are facts.

Not exactly depends on who spins them
Alot of illegal immigrants coming over the Mexican border are from guetamala and El Salvador and countries like that but if u think more Mexicans are going back to Mexico than coming u are dreaming.
I would not blame the republicans for not giving him any more money for the military because he would probably want to spend it on sex changes for transgenders or sensitivity training or giving Iran 400 million .

We really should divide the board up into age groups.

Possibly the most embarrassing post I've seen here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 03, 2016, 04:47:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 03, 2016, 04:34:18 PM
QuoteFacts are facts.

Not exactly depends on who spins them
Alot of illegal immigrants coming over the Mexican border are from guetamala and El Salvador and countries like that but if u think more Mexicans are going back to Mexico than coming u are dreaming.
I would not blame the republicans for not giving him any more money for the military because he would probably want to spend it on sex changes for transgenders or sensitivity training or giving Iran 400 million .

We really should divide the board up into age groups.

Possibly the most embarrassing post I've seen here.

f**k that is bad, brutal in fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 04:49:42 PM
A lot of reports today citing a possible Trump withdrawal. . . is it just rumour or is there an actual chance of this?

I'm presuming it's a withdrawal as Republican nominee to run as an independent and not a total withdrawal. That would be awesome Hillary can sit on the sofa until November chilling out with a big fat cigar  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 03, 2016, 04:56:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 04:49:42 PM
A lot of reports today citing a possible Trump withdrawal. . . is it just rumour or is there an actual chance of this?

I'm presuming it's a withdrawal as Republican nominee to run as an independent and not a total withdrawal. That would be awesome Hillary can sit on the sofa until November chilling out with a big fat cigar  ;)

Regardless of the possible Republican implosion, I think all civilised society (not just the US) needs a credible 3rd option. The polarisation created by these two candidate elections gets worse and worse every time, despite the relatively minor differences between most of their representatives (Trump being the greatest exception of my lifetime). One of these years there will be a major conflict growing out of a US election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 03, 2016, 05:21:12 PM
The GOP should put up a cute cat picture as the candidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 03, 2016, 05:30:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 04:49:42 PM
A lot of reports today citing a possible Trump withdrawal. . . is it just rumour or is there an actual chance of this?

I'm presuming it's a withdrawal as Republican nominee to run as an independent and not a total withdrawal. That would be awesome Hillary can sit on the sofa until November chilling out with a big fat cigar  ;)
it's on nbcnews.com
Sounds like the wheels are coming off.
Even if they did get him to pull out the GOP is trína chéile.  The voters do not support the policies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 03, 2016, 05:31:05 PM
Nbcnews.com has a report saying the Muslim ban is pie in the sky.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2016, 09:19:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?
trump has kids and grandkids of his own do u really think he would start a nuclear war ?
He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly
Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico  and putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.
Why would he start a nuclear war ? And the media talk about trumps scaremongering .

Hey, I'm just reporting what two Republicans were discussing on the news this morning! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2016, 02:20:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?
trump has kids and grandkids of his own do u really think he would start a nuclear war ?

I didn't say it. Fellow Republicans are worrying out loud about it! Allegedly, Trump asked three times in some briefing why the US has nukes if they can't use them! Apparently doesn't get the whole deterrent thing!

Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly
Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico  and putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.

How has Obama deballed the military? What social experiment?

This whole Muslim thing arose over ISIS fighters from Syria posing as refugees. Do you how long it takes Muslim refugees from Syria to be vetted right now? Do you think the Obama administration is just letting these people stroll in through Terminal 4 in JFK?

Are you seriously supporting the idea of a 2000 mile wall along the Mexican border?

Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Why would he start a nuclear war ? And the media talk about trumps scaremongering .

The issue is Trump's temperament. All through his campaign, again and again and again, he has demonstrated that he doesn't have what it takes to be president. He is obsessed with every little thing that the press and the Clinton campaign and its surrogates and fellow Republicans say about him. Even today, when he was supposed to be focussing on Hillary, he just couldn't help himself and started on about all these perceived slights again, even going all the way back to the Megyn Kelly blood thing again, disingenuously saying he was referring to her nose. It's got to the point where you start to forget what last week's mess was all about, never mind a few months ago! And he really pissed off his fellow GOPers with his refusal to endorse Paul Ryan, instead using Ryan's exact words from a few months ago when he was hesitating on endorsing Trump. Talk about petty! Instead of brushing it off and moving on, he has to hit back each and every time. He looks like a complete narcissist who is apparently afraid that if he doesn't come down hard on each and every criticism, even if legitimate, that he will be seen as weak. Like some teenage bully. He's all balls and no thought or consideration.
You can't have a man as president who will spend all day, every day, obsessing on each and every thing being said about him and then launching twitter tirades (or worse, using the executive branch). We already had a, for the time, something similar, in Nixon, and look how that ended. You think Trump would put up with what Obama gets from the GOP and Fox News and right wing talk radio and internet? Or what Bush got from the Dems and the liberal press, once they found their balls after being compliant sheep in the run up to the Iraq war?

And that is the reason Joe Scarborough was discussing the nuke issue. I don't know if he is really fearful about nukes per se, but it and his temperament are legitimate questions for discussion given what we've seen, especially in the last week.

And all this is before you even begin to look at his policies and their lack of detail. Or the conspiracy theories... this week he's even claiming that the election may be stolen from him in November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2016, 02:44:27 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 04:49:42 PM
A lot of reports today citing a possible Trump withdrawal. . . is it just rumour or is there an actual chance of this?

I'm presuming it's a withdrawal as Republican nominee to run as an independent and not a total withdrawal. That would be awesome Hillary can sit on the sofa until November chilling out with a big fat cigar  ;)

He won't withdraw. His ego couldn't take it.

What will happen is that a large proportion of the GOP candidates will go their own way in this election in the hope of winning their own races. Its already started.

Because no matter what latest intervention Giuliani and Christie et al. try to pull together, Trump just can't help himself. HE might behave for a few days, but the next freakout is just around the corner.

I was worried a few months back that he would move to the center and start "acting" like a normal candidate. I'm not anymore. We're less than 100 days out. The pressure from the Dem side is only going to increase, and he will not be able to resist flying off the handle, time and again.

Whatever you think about Hillary, her "how can we trust a man, who can be baited with a tweet, with our nuclear codes" succinctly summed him up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2016, 05:29:49 AM
The young Trump had a mentor called Roy Cohn. His advice was always attack, always do it in force and never let a personal slight go unanswered. That works in business and in entertainment . Maybe. But not in politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 04, 2016, 10:34:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2016, 02:20:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?
trump has kids and grandkids of his own do u really think he would start a nuclear war ?

I didn't say it. Fellow Republicans are worrying out loud about it! Allegedly, Trump asked three times in some briefing why the US has nukes if they can't use them! Apparently doesn't get the whole deterrent thing!

Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly
Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico  and putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.

How has Obama deballed the military? What social experiment?

This whole Muslim thing arose over ISIS fighters from Syria posing as refugees. Do you how long it takes Muslim refugees from Syria to be vetted right now? Do you think the Obama administration is just letting these people stroll in through Terminal 4 in JFK?

Are you seriously supporting the idea of a 2000 mile wall along the Mexican border?

Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Why would he start a nuclear war ? And the media talk about trumps scaremongering .

The issue is Trump's temperament. All through his campaign, again and again and again, he has demonstrated that he doesn't have what it takes to be president. He is obsessed with every little thing that the press and the Clinton campaign and its surrogates and fellow Republicans say about him. Even today, when he was supposed to be focussing on Hillary, he just couldn't help himself and started on about all these perceived slights again, even going all the way back to the Megyn Kelly blood thing again, disingenuously saying he was referring to her nose. It's got to the point where you start to forget what last week's mess was all about, never mind a few months ago! And he really pissed off his fellow GOPers with his refusal to endorse Paul Ryan, instead using Ryan's exact words from a few months ago when he was hesitating on endorsing Trump. Talk about petty! Instead of brushing it off and moving on, he has to hit back each and every time. He looks like a complete narcissist who is apparently afraid that if he doesn't come down hard on each and every criticism, even if legitimate, that he will be seen as weak. Like some teenage bully. He's all balls and no thought or consideration.
You can't have a man as president who will spend all day, every day, obsessing on each and every thing being said about him and then launching twitter tirades (or worse, using the executive branch). We already had a, for the time, something similar, in Nixon, and look how that ended. You think Trump would put up with what Obama gets from the GOP and Fox News and right wing talk radio and internet? Or what Bush got from the Dems and the liberal press, once they found their balls after being compliant sheep in the run up to the Iraq war?

And that is the reason Joe Scarborough was discussing the nuke issue. I don't know if he is really fearful about nukes per se, but it and his temperament are legitimate questions for discussion given what we've seen, especially in the last week.

And all this is before you even begin to look at his policies and their lack of detail. Or the conspiracy theories... this week he's even claiming that the election may be stolen from him in November.

Allegedly Hillary is a lesbian and once had a former suitor
executed and is allegedly a crack addict.

Allegedly is a word people hide behind, moral cowards in other words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2016, 11:18:10 AM
That's it? ;D

You're upset over my use of the word "allegedly" to explain why members of Trump's own party were discussing his potential responsibility for the US nuclear arsenal?

At least I and they're acknowledging it's an allegation stew. You come on here all the time parroting right wing conspiracy theories about the Clintons, calling them murderers and so on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 04, 2016, 11:37:06 AM
Hillary now 10 pts up on Trump... is there a decent chance the Dems could win back the house?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 04, 2016, 01:45:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2016, 11:18:10 AM
That's it? ;D

You're upset over my use of the word "allegedly" to explain why members of Trump's own party were discussing his potential responsibility for the US nuclear arsenal?

At least I and they're acknowledging it's an allegation stew. You come on here all the time parroting right wing conspiracy theories about the Clintons, calling them murderers and so on.

The Republican party is not his party, he is not a Republican and you well know it.

It is a moot point, he is ten points behind in the latest poll, he has no chance and I would be delighted by that if it were practically anyone else but killory becoming President.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2016, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: stew on August 04, 2016, 01:45:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2016, 11:18:10 AM
That's it? ;D

You're upset over my use of the word "allegedly" to explain why members of Trump's own party were discussing his potential responsibility for the US nuclear arsenal?

At least I and they're acknowledging it's an allegation stew. You come on here all the time parroting right wing conspiracy theories about the Clintons, calling them murderers and so on.

The Republican party is not his party, he is not a Republican and you well know it.

It is a moot point, he is ten points behind in the latest poll, he has no chance and I would be delighted by that if it were practically anyone else but killory becoming President.

Give it up stew. Whatever he was in the past when he bought favours from both parties, he is the GOP nominee, and the logical conclusion to the path they have been on for decades i.e. using immigrants, minorities, gays, guns, supposed freeloaders etc. etc. to rile up working class and religious whites. The only difference is that Trump is not afraid to say all this shit out loud, and  has thrown in some economic populism too to seal the deal. The rich business/low tax/small government types are horrified, but Trump or someone like him was inevitable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2016, 02:00:02 PM
The GOP is falling apart. The voters don't buy the low tax/ cut entitlements shtick. If they did Jeb would be the candidate

I think they accept Trump will lose but if it is a whitewash he will take House and Senate seats with him especially if there is discord between what he is saying and what candidates are saying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 04, 2016, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2016, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: stew on August 04, 2016, 01:45:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2016, 11:18:10 AM
That's it? ;D

You're upset over my use of the word "allegedly" to explain why members of Trump's own party were discussing his potential responsibility for the US nuclear arsenal?

At least I and they're acknowledging it's an allegation stew. You come on here all the time parroting right wing conspiracy theories about the Clintons, calling them murderers and so on.

The Republican party is not his party, he is not a Republican and you well know it.

It is a moot point, he is ten points behind in the latest poll, he has no chance and I would be delighted by that if it were practically anyone else but killory becoming President.

Give it up stew. Whatever he was in the past when he bought favours from both parties, he is the GOP nominee, and the logical conclusion to the path they have been on for decades i.e. using immigrants, minorities, gays, guns, supposed freeloaders etc. etc. to rile up working class and religious whites. The only difference is that Trump is not afraid to say all this shit out loud, and  has thrown in some economic populism too to seal the deal. The rich business/low tax/small government types are horrified, but Trump or someone like him was inevitable.

So you mentioned this inevitable trump esque figure when exactly???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 04, 2016, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: stew on August 04, 2016, 10:34:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2016, 02:20:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Joe Scarborough discussing with former Bush NSA Director Michael Hayden whether there are enough safeguards in place to stop a pissed off Trump launching nukes. Hayden says there aren't as the system is built for a quick response. He acknowledges Trump is far too erratic, but he still won't back Hillary!

Have such concerns ever been raised before about a presidential candidate?
trump has kids and grandkids of his own do u really think he would start a nuclear war ?

I didn't say it. Fellow Republicans are worrying out loud about it! Allegedly, Trump asked three times in some briefing why the US has nukes if they can't use them! Apparently doesn't get the whole deterrent thing!

Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
He's talking about banning Muslims entering the U.S. if they can't be vetted properly
Stopping millions of illegal immigrants coming over the border from Mexico  and putting some pride back in the military which Obama has deballed and turned into a social experiment.

How has Obama deballed the military? What social experiment?

This whole Muslim thing arose over ISIS fighters from Syria posing as refugees. Do you how long it takes Muslim refugees from Syria to be vetted right now? Do you think the Obama administration is just letting these people stroll in through Terminal 4 in JFK?

Are you seriously supporting the idea of a 2000 mile wall along the Mexican border?

Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
Why would he start a nuclear war ? And the media talk about trumps scaremongering .

The issue is Trump's temperament. All through his campaign, again and again and again, he has demonstrated that he doesn't have what it takes to be president. He is obsessed with every little thing that the press and the Clinton campaign and its surrogates and fellow Republicans say about him. Even today, when he was supposed to be focussing on Hillary, he just couldn't help himself and started on about all these perceived slights again, even going all the way back to the Megyn Kelly blood thing again, disingenuously saying he was referring to her nose. It's got to the point where you start to forget what last week's mess was all about, never mind a few months ago! And he really pissed off his fellow GOPers with his refusal to endorse Paul Ryan, instead using Ryan's exact words from a few months ago when he was hesitating on endorsing Trump. Talk about petty! Instead of brushing it off and moving on, he has to hit back each and every time. He looks like a complete narcissist who is apparently afraid that if he doesn't come down hard on each and every criticism, even if legitimate, that he will be seen as weak. Like some teenage bully. He's all balls and no thought or consideration.
You can't have a man as president who will spend all day, every day, obsessing on each and every thing being said about him and then launching twitter tirades (or worse, using the executive branch). We already had a, for the time, something similar, in Nixon, and look how that ended. You think Trump would put up with what Obama gets from the GOP and Fox News and right wing talk radio and internet? Or what Bush got from the Dems and the liberal press, once they found their balls after being compliant sheep in the run up to the Iraq war?

And that is the reason Joe Scarborough was discussing the nuke issue. I don't know if he is really fearful about nukes per se, but it and his temperament are legitimate questions for discussion given what we've seen, especially in the last week.

And all this is before you even begin to look at his policies and their lack of detail. Or the conspiracy theories... this week he's even claiming that the election may be stolen from him in November.

Allegedly Hillary is a lesbian and once had a former suitor
executed and is allegedly a crack addict.

Allegedly is a word people hide behind, moral cowards in other words.

Finally you admit it.

You have been bravely calling her strapon for months.

Regarding Hillary, no one other than homophobes give a crap about her sexuality and as for having people executed, no one other than nut jobs would believe that. Crack head? Do you know what the live of a crack head looks like?

Regarding Trump, his critics just repeat what comes out of his mouth, every week. It is hard to keep up with his lunacy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 04, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 04, 2016, 11:37:06 AM
Hillary now 10 pts up on Trump... is there a decent chance the Dems could win back the house?

Yep, every chance, which is great you know now you will,have a liberal supreme court, America is ducked no matter what way you slice it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 04, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
one of the issues that most people face when looking at the coverage of the US elections is that what they see is actually just that  - coverage. It is the media and their friends and colleagues talking about the race and what is happening. the more outrageous the coverage the more papers are sold, the more viewers for the show, the more page impressions and higher ad revenue.

To combat this and to look at facts I'm going to suggest you take a look at fivethirtyeight.com Nate Silver is regarded (yup- opinion again) as one of the best statisticians around. Take a look at his wikipedia page to see how successful he has been in the past. The short version is that in 2008 and 2012 he called the state race accurately in 49 out of 50 and then 50 out of 50.

The models he use has Hillary at the most likely win since polling started, at 91.6%
Silvers models are quantitative analytics and factor in a lot of external dependencies, but not news or opinion.
The site is treated as an academic paper and references are included so you can see where the data is being sourced.

At this point there is a one in 12 shot that Hilary will not be the first female president of the Unites States. with the only states in play really being Arizona and Georgia.

However the big question for the republicans at this point in the process is what to do about the Donald. To stew's point is he really a Republican? Can the candidates for election from the GOP take the calculated gamble to come out against him?

if Hilary wins the Dems need 4 more seats in the senate to own it (in a 50-50 vote the Vp casts the deciding vote) Can the GOP hold those seats?

There is an opinion piece here
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-may-start-dragging-gop-senate-candidates-down-with-him/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-may-start-dragging-gop-senate-candidates-down-with-him/)
which looks at the polling data and suggests (again an opinion not a fact) that it will require a new pattern in american voting for the Republicans to hold on to many of these seats, which is ticket splitting. Usually in the US the voters pick the party of the presidential candidate they prefer and vote for that party the whole way down the ticket. if that pattern continues, the GOP could be in serious trouble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 04, 2016, 05:15:12 PM
QuoteHowever the big question for the republicans at this point in the process is what to do about the Donald. To stew's point is he really a Republican?

Whether or not he is a Republican, he isn't a politician and he isn't Presidential material. The rest of the world, Putin aside, is looking on in dismay that he could even be considered.

As for Hillary, her husband balanced the books and did a pretty good job. How bad is she going to be with him still in the background? Some of the criticisms of her are valid, but the bile from the usual suspects is way over the top. And it will win the election for her.

She is 100 times the candidate Trump is. And it is The Republicans fault for putting themselves in that position. There surely were better candidates than him in a country of 320m+? Bad as Dubya was, he just did what he was told. He could be managed. Trump won't listen to anyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2016, 05:18:16 PM
Quote from: stew on August 04, 2016, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2016, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: stew on August 04, 2016, 01:45:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2016, 11:18:10 AM
That's it? ;D

You're upset over my use of the word "allegedly" to explain why members of Trump's own party were discussing his potential responsibility for the US nuclear arsenal?

At least I and they're acknowledging it's an allegation stew. You come on here all the time parroting right wing conspiracy theories about the Clintons, calling them murderers and so on.

The Republican party is not his party, he is not a Republican and you well know it.

It is a moot point, he is ten points behind in the latest poll, he has no chance and I would be delighted by that if it were practically anyone else but killory becoming President.

Give it up stew. Whatever he was in the past when he bought favours from both parties, he is the GOP nominee, and the logical conclusion to the path they have been on for decades i.e. using immigrants, minorities, gays, guns, supposed freeloaders etc. etc. to rile up working class and religious whites. The only difference is that Trump is not afraid to say all this shit out loud, and  has thrown in some economic populism too to seal the deal. The rich business/low tax/small government types are horrified, but Trump or someone like him was inevitable.

So you mentioned this inevitable trump esque figure when exactly???

I don't claim to have any foresight. But there is a clear line between GOP rhetoric and tactics over recent decades and the Trump candidacy. Maybe if someone like Trump hadn't come along this year, the resentments he is exploiting would have remained dormant or sidelined, but the GOP laid the groundwork for him to come in and ride the wave. To mix in yet another metaphor, the conditions were ripe, and that is their own doing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 04, 2016, 06:04:36 PM
Do the GOP not fact check their candidates, surely this should have come up.
Difficult position to take to kick out all illegal immigrants, when you married one, well at least the third time around, I don't know the legal status of the other two, or even Melania's...

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/melania-trump-immigration-donald-226648
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 04, 2016, 06:30:22 PM
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/08/01/trump_has_now_accused_two_fire_marshals_of_being_conspiring_against_him.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/08/01/trump_has_now_accused_two_fire_marshals_of_being_conspiring_against_him.html)

Fighting with Firefighters now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2016, 07:29:53 PM
Fat lot of good the intervention did!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 07, 2016, 06:23:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2016, 07:29:53 PM
Fat lot of good the intervention did!  ;D

The man is a walking disaster area, a national embarrassment, as is Clinton.

Neither are fit to be President, she will win it going away because he seems to be doing his best to lose the thing anyway.

I consider Clinton an absolute horror show of a human being but even I have to concede four more years of Obama light in the white house is better than a nut job wannabee despot who knows f**k all about world affairs.

Obama is right about one thing, Trump is unfit to be POTUS but I hate the very thought of that arrogant nasty tr**p being President, I may as well get used to it because she has this thing done and dusted.

Cant believe I just wrote that! :-X :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 07, 2016, 01:41:31 PM
What if????

http://www.cracked.com/video_20056_what-if-donald-trump-just-elaborate-prank.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 07, 2016, 06:26:11 PM
(http://www.thefuturohouse.com/images/alittlebit/chicken_trump_june_16_small.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 11:43:47 AM
I saw a good summary of the election on twitter.

If the election was about Clinton Trump would be President.
If the election was about Trump Clinton would be President.
Both Clinton & Trump want it to be about Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 08, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
Trump has made a lot of good points about blue collar America. The problem is that  he has no tact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 08, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 08, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
Trump has made a lot of good points about blue collar America. The problem is that  he has no tact.

If he had common sense and stopped insulting the parents of dead soldiers and war heroes he might have had a chance, he has struck a nerve and forever changed the GOP which is a good thing but he is a nightmare both foreign and domestic policy wise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 08, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
Trump has made a lot of good points about blue collar America. The problem is that  he has no tact.

If he had common sense and stopped insulting the parents of dead soldiers and war heroes he might have had a chance, he has struck a nerve and forever changed the GOP which is a good thing but he is a nightmare both foreign and domestic policy wise.
Like the Brexit vote in the UK he has tapped into a generation who have been ignored by politicians and who do not see a future for them (a decent job, an education for their kids) in their own Country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on August 08, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 08, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
Trump has made a lot of good points about blue collar America. The problem is that  he has no tact.

If he had common sense and stopped insulting the parents of dead soldiers and war heroes he might have had a chance, he has struck a nerve and forever changed the GOP which is a good thing but he is a nightmare both foreign and domestic policy wise.
Like the Brexit vote in the UK he has tapped into a generation who have been ignored by politicians and who do not see a future for them (a decent job, an education for their kids) in their own Country.

So their answer to this much like the brexiteers is to jump head first into something they have no idea about. Only this time it would be handing power to a man who has no idea about the world and at worst is actually dangerous.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 08, 2016, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 08, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 08, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
Trump has made a lot of good points about blue collar America. The problem is that  he has no tact.

If he had common sense and stopped insulting the parents of dead soldiers and war heroes he might have had a chance, he has struck a nerve and forever changed the GOP which is a good thing but he is a nightmare both foreign and domestic policy wise.
Like the Brexit vote in the UK he has tapped into a generation who have been ignored by politicians and who do not see a future for them (a decent job, an education for their kids) in their own Country.

So their answer to this much like the brexiteers is to jump head first into something they have no idea about. Only this time it would be handing power to a man who has no idea about the world and at worst is actually dangerous.

In fairness Clinton has loads of experience and has done an awful job at every turn, a career political animal who is also dangerous, very dangerous, Benghazi and the two email scandals, she is utterly despised by so many that they will vote Trump because they see her as I do, worse even, the left did that with Clinton over Trump.

Obama paying four hundred million to the Syrians on the day 4 hostages were released, Trump is not far wrong on him, he is one of the worst Presidents ever in my opinion, a gutless liberal that has brought the country to unparalled debt and a man that is completely out of touch with his countrymen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 08, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 08, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 08, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
Trump has made a lot of good points about blue collar America. The problem is that  he has no tact.

If he had common sense and stopped insulting the parents of dead soldiers and war heroes he might have had a chance, he has struck a nerve and forever changed the GOP which is a good thing but he is a nightmare both foreign and domestic policy wise.
Like the Brexit vote in the UK he has tapped into a generation who have been ignored by politicians and who do not see a future for them (a decent job, an education for their kids) in their own Country.

So their answer to this much like the brexiteers is to jump head first into something they have no idea about. Only this time it would be handing power to a man who has no idea about the world and at worst is actually dangerous.

In fairness Clinton has loads of experience and has done an awful job at every turn, a career political animal who is also dangerous, very dangerous, Benghazi and the two email scandals, she is utterly despised by so many that they will vote Trump because they see her as I do, worse even, the left did that with Clinton over Trump.

Obama paying four hundred million to the Syrians on the day 4 hostages were released, Trump is not far wrong on him, he is one of the worst Presidents ever in my opinion, a gutless liberal that has brought the country to unparalled debt and a man that is completely out of touch with his countrymen.

Ok Stew.

Can you explain what is so, so terrible about the emails?

Then can you explain why Benghazi makes her so evil, please compare with Afghanistan, Iraq 1, Iraq 2 etc, etc?

Finally can you explain why you think Obama gave money to Syria?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 08, 2016, 01:43:13 PM
He didn't - he gave it to Iran
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 08, 2016, 02:08:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 08, 2016, 01:43:13 PM
He didn't - he gave it to Iran

Correct Gab, that's who I meant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 08, 2016, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 08, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 08, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 08, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
Trump has made a lot of good points about blue collar America. The problem is that  he has no tact.

If he had common sense and stopped insulting the parents of dead soldiers and war heroes he might have had a chance, he has struck a nerve and forever changed the GOP which is a good thing but he is a nightmare both foreign and domestic policy wise.
Like the Brexit vote in the UK he has tapped into a generation who have been ignored by politicians and who do not see a future for them (a decent job, an education for their kids) in their own Country.

So their answer to this much like the brexiteers is to jump head first into something they have no idea about. Only this time it would be handing power to a man who has no idea about the world and at worst is actually dangerous.

In fairness Clinton has loads of experience and has done an awful job at every turn, a career political animal who is also dangerous, very dangerous, Benghazi and the two email scandals, she is utterly despised by so many that they will vote Trump because they see her as I do, worse even, the left did that with Clinton over Trump.

Obama paying four hundred million to the Syrians on the day 4 hostages were released, Trump is not far wrong on him, he is one of the worst Presidents ever in my opinion, a gutless liberal that has brought the country to unparalled debt and a man that is completely out of touch with his countrymen.

Ok Stew.

Can you explain what is so, so terrible about the emails?

Then can you explain why Benghazi makes her so evil, please compare with Afghanistan, Iraq 1, Iraq 2 etc, etc?

Finally can you explain why you think Obama gave money to Syria?

Email, the first scandal: she illegally deleted 3000 emails that mysteriously cannot be accounted for, she also illegally used her home server and left thousands of American abroad exposed by virtue of the fact she was hacked and a lot of the information she put out there was classified top secret or higher, hell, she even had some emails status changes thrown in for good measure, also your hero threw others under the bus with the it is not just me, he did it, she did it, cowardly leadership unfit to govern.

She lied to the parents of the dead people at the embassy, she had ignored over 300 emails begging her to send help because they knew they were under severe threat, she told her kid one thing and the. Surviving parents another.

Finally email scandal number 2, I have always known the Democrat party was corrupt and arrogant, of course she had no idea the fix was in and Saunders and his millions of followers had no chance from the get go.

I am not going to be sucked into comparisons that suit your agenda, I never mentioned afghanistan so why should you bring that into it?

Why do you defend this corrupt bastard?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 08, 2016, 02:59:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 08, 2016, 01:43:13 PM
He didn't - he gave it to Iran

Stew has a Trump-like relationship with facts.

Anyway on to the emails, that Stew claims make her a murderer and corrupt.

I had a longer post written but it got lost.

So I am just posting this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/01/26/600-requests-from-benghazi-for-better-security-what-this-statistic-really-means/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/01/26/600-requests-from-benghazi-for-better-security-what-this-statistic-really-means/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 08, 2016, 03:06:11 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 08, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 08, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 08, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
Trump has made a lot of good points about blue collar America. The problem is that  he has no tact.

If he had common sense and stopped insulting the parents of dead soldiers and war heroes he might have had a chance, he has struck a nerve and forever changed the GOP which is a good thing but he is a nightmare both foreign and domestic policy wise.
Like the Brexit vote in the UK he has tapped into a generation who have been ignored by politicians and who do not see a future for them (a decent job, an education for their kids) in their own Country.

So their answer to this much like the brexiteers is to jump head first into something they have no idea about. Only this time it would be handing power to a man who has no idea about the world and at worst is actually dangerous.

In fairness Clinton has loads of experience and has done an awful job at every turn, a career political animal who is also dangerous, very dangerous, Benghazi and the two email scandals, she is utterly despised by so many that they will vote Trump because they see her as I do, worse even, the left did that with Clinton over Trump.

Obama paying four hundred million to the Syrians on the day 4 hostages were released, Trump is not far wrong on him, he is one of the worst Presidents ever in my opinion, a gutless liberal that has brought the country to unparalled debt and a man that is completely out of touch with his countrymen.

Ok Stew.

Can you explain what is so, so terrible about the emails?

Then can you explain why Benghazi makes her so evil, please compare with Afghanistan, Iraq 1, Iraq 2 etc, etc?

Finally can you explain why you think Obama gave money to Syria?

Email, the first scandal: she illegally deleted 3000 emails that mysteriously cannot be accounted for, she also illegally used her home server and left thousands of American abroad exposed by virtue of the fact she was hacked and a lot of the information she put out there was classified top secret or higher, hell, she even had some emails status changes thrown in for good measure, also your hero threw others under the bus with the it is not just me, he did it, she did it, cowardly leadership unfit to govern.

She lied to the parents of the dead people at the embassy, she had ignored over 300 emails begging her to send help because they knew they were under severe threat, she told her kid one thing and the. Surviving parents another.

Finally email scandal number 2, I have always known the Democrat party was corrupt and arrogant, of course she had no idea the fix was in and Saunders and his millions of followers had no chance from the get go.

I am not going to be sucked into comparisons that suit your agenda, I never mentioned afghanistan so why should you bring that into it?

Why do you defend this corrupt b**tard?

Shit stew did you go to the same law school as wee Jamie Bwyson? I mean you mention illegal twice there yet the Justice Department AND the FBI have said that she didn't do anything illegal . . .

You can check the FBI statement again if you're not sure but I'm full sure there is no mention of illegality in there!!!

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 03:06:36 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 08, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 08, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
Trump has made a lot of good points about blue collar America. The problem is that  he has no tact.

If he had common sense and stopped insulting the parents of dead soldiers and war heroes he might have had a chance, he has struck a nerve and forever changed the GOP which is a good thing but he is a nightmare both foreign and domestic policy wise.
Like the Brexit vote in the UK he has tapped into a generation who have been ignored by politicians and who do not see a future for them (a decent job, an education for their kids) in their own Country.

So their answer to this much like the brexiteers is to jump head first into something they have no idea about. Only this time it would be handing power to a man who has no idea about the world and at worst is actually dangerous.

Pretty much.
With the Brexit vote there was a sizeable minority for whom the "scare-mongering" was an irrelevancy. The impact to the economy meant nothing to them as they had nothing. They did not have a job to lose or savings to devalue. The global economy was not benefiting them beyond cheaper trainers.

With the US there is a similar blue collar demographic who can remember a time pre-NAFTA when there were jobs and job security. Trump is tapping into that with his "Remember when we made thins" spiel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 08, 2016, 03:13:40 PM
A third way
Evin McMullen is going to be running as a representative of the "never Trump" campaign. He is currently the Republican's chief policy advisor in the House of Representatives.

interesting to see how this affects both nominees...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 08, 2016, 03:36:11 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 08, 2016, 03:13:40 PM
A third way
Evin McMullen is going to be running as a representative of the "never Trump" campaign. He is currently the Republican's chief policy advisor in the House of Representatives.

interesting to see how this affects both nominees...

It's another nail on Trump's coffin I would think... 2 Republicans running can only dilute their vote you would think!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 08, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 08, 2016, 03:36:11 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 08, 2016, 03:13:40 PM
A third way
Evin McMullen is going to be running as a representative of the "never Trump" campaign. He is currently the Republican's chief policy advisor in the House of Representatives.

interesting to see how this affects both nominees...

It's another nail on Trump's coffin I would think... 2 Republicans running can only dilute their vote you would think!

Trump is no Republican as well you know, follow the money!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 08, 2016, 06:08:13 PM
there is a lot of social media going on this one, but not a lot of coverage as yet. Hard to tell what the impact will be. A lot of "why don't you just spoil your ballot" and third way is a wasted vote chat.
I think its interesting...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 10:36:48 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 08, 2016, 06:08:13 PM
there is a lot of social media going on this one, but not a lot of coverage as yet. Hard to tell what the impact will be. A lot of "why don't you just spoil your ballot" and third way is a wasted vote chat.
I think its interesting...
There are already Libertarian and Green options on the ballot in most States. That they do not figure even with the poor mainstream options shows just how entrenched the current 2 party system is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 08, 2016, 10:57:19 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 10:36:48 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 08, 2016, 06:08:13 PM
there is a lot of social media going on this one, but not a lot of coverage as yet. Hard to tell what the impact will be. A lot of "why don't you just spoil your ballot" and third way is a wasted vote chat.
I think its interesting...
There are already Libertarian and Green options on the ballot in most States. That they do not figure even with the poor mainstream options shows just how entrenched the current 2 party system is.

I did not know that.

Could you please post up some info on these people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 08, 2016, 11:27:30 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37016680 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37016680)

Republicans beginning to flee the sinking ship?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 09, 2016, 12:17:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 08, 2016, 03:36:11 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 08, 2016, 03:13:40 PM
A third way
Evin McMullen is going to be running as a representative of the "never Trump" campaign. He is currently the Republican's chief policy advisor in the House of Representatives.

interesting to see how this affects both nominees...

It's another nail on Trump's coffin I would think... 2 Republicans running can only dilute their vote you would think!

He's probably too late to get on the ballot in some states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 09, 2016, 12:43:32 AM
Well, if McMullin, a Mormon Republican from Utah, manages to flip Trump Republicans in Utah and Clinton wins the state, even if Trump wins FL, PA and OH, Clinton still wins the presidency.  He is probably a last-gasp effort of the anti-Trump movement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 09, 2016, 12:52:52 AM
He didn't even warrant a mention on the CBS national news this evening.

And they covered Trump and Hillary, although the Delta f**k-up and Zika were the headlines.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on August 09, 2016, 03:35:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 08, 2016, 10:57:19 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 08, 2016, 10:36:48 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 08, 2016, 06:08:13 PM
there is a lot of social media going on this one, but not a lot of coverage as yet. Hard to tell what the impact will be. A lot of "why don't you just spoil your ballot" and third way is a wasted vote chat.
I think its interesting...
There are already Libertarian and Green options on the ballot in most States. That they do not figure even with the poor mainstream options shows just how entrenched the current 2 party system is.

I did not know that.

Could you please post up some info on these people?

Libertarian party: Gary Johnson
Ballot access to 370 electoral votes in 36 states (270 needed to win)
Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming.

Green Party: Jill Stein:
Ballot access to 334 electoral college votes.
Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, West Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin
Also write in votes in Indiana and North Carolina are possible.

There are about 5 more parties with access to >50 electoral college votes, not enough to win but options for protest votes right across the spectrum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_third_party_and_independent_presidential_candidates,_2016
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on August 09, 2016, 03:58:27 PM
A bit of perspective to those living outside the US on the viability of the Liberterians tho...


Somebody was telling me that they elected a new moderate leader, (I dunno if he's the candidate or not). This radical wants to have driving licences!!! Apparently he announced this at the conference and was met with a chorus of boos :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 09, 2016, 09:41:29 PM
Don needs to step away from the microphone for a few days
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 09, 2016, 10:01:14 PM
Cheers Leo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 10, 2016, 01:47:55 PM
Tell me I am not reading this right?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html)

If I am, this lad is a dangerous lunatic, and he should be removed from the presidential race immediately. When you see some of the knuckle heads that are pure Trump supporters, this sort of comment is downright irresponsible and dangerous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 10, 2016, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2016, 01:47:55 PM
Tell me I am not reading this right?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html)

If I am, this lad is a dangerous lunatic, and he should be removed from the presidential race immediately. When you see some of the knuckle heads that are pure Trump supporters, this sort of comment is downright irresponsible and dangerous.
1968 was similar to 2016. Economy in Meltdown. Racial tension.
Then the assassinations started.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 10, 2016, 03:12:12 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2016, 01:47:55 PM
Tell me I am not reading this right?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html)

If I am, this lad is a dangerous lunatic, and he should be removed from the presidential race immediately. When you see some of the knuckle heads that are pure Trump supporters, this sort of comment is downright irresponsible and dangerous.

Crazy . . . what's worse was his appearance on Hannity where Hannity gave him the spin on it before Trump had to say anything.

Hannity is a quite horrible human being I don't understand how people fall for his shtick!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 10, 2016, 04:31:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 10, 2016, 03:12:12 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2016, 01:47:55 PM
Tell me I am not reading this right?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html)

If I am, this lad is a dangerous lunatic, and he should be removed from the presidential race immediately. When you see some of the knuckle heads that are pure Trump supporters, this sort of comment is downright irresponsible and dangerous.

Crazy . . . what's worse was his appearance on Hannity where Hannity gave him the spin on it before Trump had to say anything.

Hannity is a quite horrible human being I don't understand how people fall for his shtick!!!

He is not you odious toad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on August 10, 2016, 05:10:04 PM
Secret Service might be having a quiet word with Trump.

As for Hannity, Stew, he is a horrible human being - or even more accurate, an odious toad. Thanks for the phrase.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 10, 2016, 05:28:57 PM
Quote from: stew on August 10, 2016, 04:31:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 10, 2016, 03:12:12 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2016, 01:47:55 PM
Tell me I am not reading this right?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/donald-trump-suggests-gun-owners-could-do-something-about-hillary-clinton-748976.html)

If I am, this lad is a dangerous lunatic, and he should be removed from the presidential race immediately. When you see some of the knuckle heads that are pure Trump supporters, this sort of comment is downright irresponsible and dangerous.

Crazy . . . what's worse was his appearance on Hannity where Hannity gave him the spin on it before Trump had to say anything.

Hannity is a quite horrible human being I don't understand how people fall for his shtick!!!

He is not you odious toad.

Ah stew come on now you have to be kidding!! He's a complete chancer who just makes stuff up to suit the guy he's following at a particular stage. His rhetoric and apologies about Trump are laughable only for the fact that so many dumbasses take him seriously!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 10, 2016, 06:52:45 PM
And he lifts $25million a year from Fox
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2016, 07:54:40 PM
Hannity has been having a twitter row with some boy from the Wall Street Journal, that bastion of liberal thought, who this week called him the dumbest person on Fox News! ;D

I don't think Hannity is the sharpest tool in the box, but he is very good at what he does, which is to be a completely bought and sold toady for the Republican Party each night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 10, 2016, 08:07:36 PM
Joe Scarborough of morning joe , the show that gave the infamous Russell Brand interview

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/08/09/the-gop-must-dump-trump/

The GOP is at risk of losing serious seats in DC, and not just the presidency
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 11, 2016, 09:59:45 AM
Ah lads it's some craic altogether.

You think after a week or two of totally f**king up that Trump gets things back on track with a fairly sensible (in delivery not content) economic speech but in the past few days he's called on gun nuts to take out Hillary and has said Obama founded ISIS!!!

It's more enjoyable now that he has no chance to win thank God and we can just laugh at the antics rather than worry about what he'd do in the Situation Room!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 11, 2016, 02:41:03 PM
(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/trump-melt-final.jpg?quality=75&strip=color&w=840)

That's gotta hurt!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2016, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2016, 08:07:36 PM
Joe Scarborough of morning joe , the show that gave the infamous Russell Brand interview

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/08/09/the-gop-must-dump-trump/

The GOP is at risk of losing serious seats in DC, and not just the presidency

They deserve to lose every fvckin seat they have.....and I'm a Conservative
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 11, 2016, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2016, 08:07:36 PM
Joe Scarborough of morning joe , the show that gave the infamous Russell Brand interview

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/08/09/the-gop-must-dump-trump/

The GOP is at risk of losing serious seats in DC, and not just the presidency

They deserve to lose every fvckin seat they have.....and I'm a Conservative

Do you mind me asking what exactly a "Conservative" is?

To my mind it seems like a PC way of saying Christian so as not to confuse separation of Church and State thereby giving people a reason other thn religion to impose their supposed "American Values" on others. . . am I close enough?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 11, 2016, 04:41:06 PM
I would define a Conservative as someone who is loathe to change just for change's sake. Someone who has to be convinced that 'new = better'. That would cross the whole spectrum of Moral values, Economics, Business etc. You often here people saying they are social Conservative, which would usually be anti Abortion, anti Same Sex Marriage, anti Drug Legalisation etc. A lot of people would be less Conservative than others but still be anti some of those things, while pro others.

The definition of Conservative, as opposed to Left Wing/Right Wing, is "averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on August 11, 2016, 05:20:28 PM
Touch of contorted view there screenexile to suit your world view me thinks. Have a read on wikipedia if you really want to expand your horizions a bit but I guess your bubble and echo chamber work fine for you.

For me conservative is sensible cautious politics similar to how AZ described.
How any real conservative could be opposed to gun control, business regulation or any other rule that would contribute to a more placid society and would never be fooled by populism like these eejits who support Trump.

But such breed are few and far between in America despite the labels, in fact, ironically, I would say the vast majority of Americans are very liberal in their outlook.

A good example of conservative for me would be the Fine Gael types.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 11, 2016, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2016, 08:07:36 PM
Joe Scarborough of morning joe , the show that gave the infamous Russell Brand interview

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/08/09/the-gop-must-dump-trump/

The GOP is at risk of losing serious seats in DC, and not just the presidency

They deserve to lose every fvckin seat they have.....and I'm a Conservative

Do you mind me asking what exactly a "Conservative" is?

To my mind it seems like a PC way of saying Christian so as not to confuse separation of Church and State thereby giving people a reason other thn religion to impose their supposed "American Values" on others. . . am I close enough?

Way off......

I used the word Conservative instead of  Republican because while fiscally I would be fiscally more aligned with Republicans, socially and on other issues I would be much more moderate

I'm in favor of common sense gun control

I'm pro choice (up to a certain point)

Agnostic as it pertains to gay marriage

Think African Americans have been treated terribly by law enforcement  (but wouldn't regard every single police shooting as a modern day lynching)

Think that illegal immigration should be addressed, but think that those already here should have a path to legalization ( as opposed to deporting them all)

Am general pro military as I have immediate family members who served in Iraq and Afghanistan,but think we spend way too much of our GDP on the military and stick our beaks in where they don't belong

Agree with separation of church and state, but disagree with über PC crap like the PTA who cancelled a trip to see the nutcracker in case anyone was offended by a Christmas Tree

So on and so forth

Think of a Mitt Romney or Charlie Baker type of Republicsn

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 11, 2016, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Agree with separation of church and state, but disagree with über PC crap like the PTA who cancelled a trip to see the nutcracker in case anyone was offended by a Christmas Tree

The trip went ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2016, 07:13:51 PM
Quote from: dec on August 11, 2016, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Agree with separation of church and state, but disagree with über PC crap like the PTA who cancelled a trip to see the nutcracker in case anyone was offended by a Christmas Tree

The trip went ahead.

After an uproar by people with some common sense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 11, 2016, 08:57:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 07:13:51 PM
Quote from: dec on August 11, 2016, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Agree with separation of church and state, but disagree with über PC crap like the PTA who cancelled a trip to see the nutcracker in case anyone was offended by a Christmas Tree

The trip went ahead.

After an uproar by people with some common sense

Precisely. I was a 2 day wonder at with some small school PTA. Not something to be stressing about years later.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2016, 09:35:18 PM
Quote from: dec on August 11, 2016, 08:57:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 07:13:51 PM
Quote from: dec on August 11, 2016, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Agree with separation of church and state, but disagree with über PC crap like the PTA who cancelled a trip to see the nutcracker in case anyone was offended by a Christmas Tree

The trip went ahead.

After an uproar by people with some common sense

Precisely. I was a 2 day wonder at with some small school PTA. Not something to be stressing about years later.

Who's stressing????

I just used it as an example of the extreme anti religious sentiment that exists on the far left
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 11, 2016, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 09:35:18 PM
I just used it as an example of the extreme anti religious sentiment that exists on the far left

But what you succeeded in doing is proving that the so called "extreme anti religious sentiment that exists on the far left" is nothing more than right wing internet windbags getting their knickers in the twist about minor PTA arguments.

If you search for Butler Belmont Nutcracker you get thousands of hits the most prominent of which are the usual range of right wing perpetually offended websites like Fox, The Blaze, World Nut Daily etc.

Over a PTA organized school trip.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2016, 10:00:10 PM
Quote from: dec on August 11, 2016, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 09:35:18 PM
I just used it as an example of the extreme anti religious sentiment that exists on the far left

But what you succeeded in doing is proving that the so called "extreme anti religious sentiment that exists on the far left" is nothing more than right wing internet windbags getting their knickers in the twist about minor PTA arguments.

If you search for Butler Belmont Nutcracker you get thousands of hits the most prominent of which are the usual range of right wing perpetually offended websites like Fox, The Blaze, World Nut Daily etc.

Over a PTA organized school trip.

Well I don't know anything about those websites, but seeing as I actually live on Boston I saw it on the evening news, read about it on the Boston Globe and spoke about it with people whose kids actually attend the school in question

Left wing zealots are just as bigoted and intolerant as the religious right
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 11, 2016, 10:05:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 10:00:10 PM
Quote from: dec on August 11, 2016, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 09:35:18 PM
I just used it as an example of the extreme anti religious sentiment that exists on the far left

But what you succeeded in doing is proving that the so called "extreme anti religious sentiment that exists on the far left" is nothing more than right wing internet windbags getting their knickers in the twist about minor PTA arguments.

If you search for Butler Belmont Nutcracker you get thousands of hits the most prominent of which are the usual range of right wing perpetually offended websites like Fox, The Blaze, World Nut Daily etc.

Over a PTA organized school trip.

Well I don't know anything about those websites, but seeing as I actually live on Boston I saw it on the evening news, read about it on the Boston Globe and spoke about it with people whose kids actually attend the school in question

Left wing zealots are just as bigoted and intolerant as the religious right

Whenever the parents complained the PTA decided to go ahead with the trip. Seems reasonable to me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 11, 2016, 10:08:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2016, 10:00:10 PM
Left wing zealots are just as bigoted and intolerant as the religious right

The PC brigade on here ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2016, 08:40:12 PM
Hillary's probability of winning is now 87.5% according to Five Thirty-Eight. Trump isn't even trying to win at this point. The only question is how big will the rout be and how much damage is he going to do to the Repubs in congress?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CiKe on August 12, 2016, 09:01:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2016, 08:40:12 PM
Hillary's probability of winning is now 87.5% according to Five Thirty-Eight. Trump isn't even trying to win at this point. The only question is how big will the rout be and how much damage is he going to do to the Repubs in congress?

Pretty sure NN Taleb was on Twitter disputing Five Thirty eights definition of probability but certainly seems to be heading that way. Wouldn't be a big fan but lesser of two evils I hope...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 13, 2016, 06:34:21 AM
Taleb has a very interesting take on probability in general
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on August 13, 2016, 07:10:22 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 13, 2016, 06:34:21 AM
Taleb has a very interesting take on probability in general
Is that his black swan theory?
Just read the basics of it there seems..... like a combination of chaos theory and the induction problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 14, 2016, 08:16:19 PM
Hey Eamon & J70 - here's a caption competition for you. Can't wait.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cp0ip6vWIAAkYiP.jpg)

The Milwaukee Wig Company August Fire sale - "Weave" now applied for opening hours "extentions" to cater for the discerning nocturnal looter. Self-checkout facilities available. Please ask for the BLM discount.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 14, 2016, 08:52:35 PM
Criminals committing a crime... What exactly is your point??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2016, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 14, 2016, 08:52:35 PM
Criminals committing a crime... What exactly is your point??

He's basically saying "here is a black person committing a crime, because that's what black people do."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 15, 2016, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2016, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 14, 2016, 08:52:35 PM
Criminals committing a crime... What exactly is your point??

He's basically saying "here is a black person committing a crime, because that's what black people do."

Who the f**k are you to say what he is saying?

Black lives matter is a racist movement itself.

Don't make people you don't know out to be racist because they despise your politics, I despise your politics but would not resort to that sort of sc**bag behaviour!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 15, 2016, 04:10:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 14, 2016, 08:52:35 PM
Criminals committing a crime... What exactly is your point??

You seem to be ignoring why there's looting in the first place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 15, 2016, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2016, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 14, 2016, 08:52:35 PM
Criminals committing a crime... What exactly is your point??

He's basically saying "here is a black person committing a crime, because that's what black people do."

They're your words, not mine. No comment on the events of Milwaukee yet Eamon? Justified rioting this time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 15, 2016, 06:34:25 PM
Black lives matter sc**bag sticks a gun in a black cops face and refuses to lower it, the stupid c**t is shot dead and there is then an organized protest to the point the national guard was called out.

The liberals organized this and and tr**p caught protesting this arseholes death should get a swift kick up the hole!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 15, 2016, 07:14:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 15, 2016, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2016, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 14, 2016, 08:52:35 PM
Criminals committing a crime... What exactly is your point??

He's basically saying "here is a black person committing a crime, because that's what black people do."

They're your words, not mine. No comment on the events of Milwaukee yet Eamon? Justified rioting this time?


That eejit will justify this moronic behaviour, I have a friend who is of the liberal bent, he is a successful lad who got the shit kicked out of him, his crime, he is white........... Almost, his father is a light skinned African American and his mother is from Finglass.

Racism is horrible no matter what slant you put on it, liberals are well capable of racism and this proves it yet again, racism is not the left or the right, it is buried deep in the individual and it needs to be eradicated through education and experience.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 15, 2016, 07:34:48 PM
QuoteRacism is horrible no matter what slant you put on it, liberals are well capable of racism and this proves it yet again, racism is not the left or the right, it is buried deep in the individual and it needs to be eradicated through education and experience.

Stew,
institutionalized racism is the main problem that needs tackled. You can start to try and handle the individuals when that has been dealt with
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 15, 2016, 08:14:48 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 15, 2016, 07:34:48 PM
QuoteRacism is horrible no matter what slant you put on it, liberals are well capable of racism and this proves it yet again, racism is not the left or the right, it is buried deep in the individual and it needs to be eradicated through education and experience.

Stew,
institutionalized racism is the main problem that needs tackled. You can start to try and handle the individuals when that has been dealt with

Ah. That's what the problem is. So until the entire population of the US brings itself down to the level of drug dealers and thugs and empathises with their issues the system will remain broken.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on August 15, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76DpmOAYVBM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76DpmOAYVBM)

whole show is couped
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 15, 2016, 09:25:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 15, 2016, 08:14:48 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 15, 2016, 07:34:48 PM
Stew,
institutionalized racism is the main problem that needs tackled. You can start to try and handle the individuals when that has been dealt with
Ah. That's what the problem is. So until the entire population of the US brings itself down to the level of drug dealers and thugs and empathises with their issues the system will remain broken.

Fox commander you are a certified genius!

what you're saying is that the way to tackle institutionalized racism, is that everyone becomes a drug dealer and a thug (or be on that level)

This is actually a revolutionary new plan. I think that many of the main scientific journals would be interested in this theory. Probably a few news channels as well. If you can draw that one liner, no data nonsense into a book you'll make a fortune. This plays very well into a few of the "think tanks" as well you'd get great rates as an advisor,  I mean you have just put together a plan where job creation (distribution- supply chain management, transportation), manufacturing (pharma and research) and the service industry all benefit from this plan (going with Thugs as a service), all in the name of stopping institutionalized racism. Good man yourself, who'd have thought it?

You should get in touch with Paul Ryan's people and get this in the next proposed budget

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on August 15, 2016, 09:33:20 PM
heganboy although i don't subscribe to fox or foxcommander I wonder what your solution is?
racism certainly exists, there is an ever growing divide and based on recent events, riots and shootings I don't see how that gap closes.  Where do you think we go from here?

I look at it like the peace process at home...most people want to move on but there are some small areas that will never change like the falls and the shankill.  The problem in the U,S that these "small areas" are entire cities and sometimes states....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 15, 2016, 09:47:16 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 15, 2016, 09:25:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 15, 2016, 08:14:48 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 15, 2016, 07:34:48 PM
Stew,
institutionalized racism is the main problem that needs tackled. You can start to try and handle the individuals when that has been dealt with
Ah. That's what the problem is. So until the entire population of the US brings itself down to the level of drug dealers and thugs and empathises with their issues the system will remain broken.

Fox commander you are a certified genius!

what you're saying is that the way to tackle institutionalized racism, is that everyone becomes a drug dealer and a thug (or be on that level)

This is actually a revolutionary new plan. I think that many of the main scientific journals would be interested in this theory. Probably a few news channels as well. If you can draw that one liner, no data nonsense into a book you'll make a fortune. This plays very well into a few of the "think tanks" as well you'd get great rates as an advisor,  I mean you have just put together a plan where job creation (distribution- supply chain management, transportation), manufacturing (pharma and research) and the service industry all benefit from this plan (going with Thugs as a service), all in the name of stopping institutionalized racism. Good man yourself, who'd have thought it?

You should get in touch with Paul Ryan's people and get this in the next proposed budget

I was actually describing Obama's plan for America. Bring it down to the lowest common denominator, introduce quotas so the best candidates get overlooked etc. You leftys love this sort of thing.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 16, 2016, 02:40:28 AM
I give up
What is it that you are posting about?
What plan? Obama huh? He better hurry up with it if he's going to kick it off now. Tough to pull off as a lame duck though.

Love to hear about the new quotas. They sound interesting. Also curious about these poor best candidates. You want to take a look at lowest common denominator, maybe it should be up to you to have a word with your Republican buddies and ask why only a candidate who is completely unelectable can make it through the primary process. I'm sure they'll listen as I hear there is a significant management change at Fox.

Lefty huh? You need a reminder of where the center is...
Left of you though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on August 16, 2016, 09:36:34 AM
Is there any danger that Trump yoke might be elected?
We're talking about Yanks after all ::)

They did elect Reagan and GW Bush TWICE EACH before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 16, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
Latest poll has Trump on 67% and Clinton on 19%.  :D

http://constitution.com/trump-leading-67-hillarys-19-national-poll-50000-voters/ (http://constitution.com/trump-leading-67-hillarys-19-national-poll-50000-voters/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 16, 2016, 01:32:27 PM
In non-presidential news. The attorney general in  Pennsylvania, one of the bright stars in the Democratic party, has just been found guilty of abuse of power

QuoteA jury found Ms. Kane, 50, guilty of nine criminal charges, including perjury and criminal conspiracy, convicting her of leaking grand jury information, and then lying about it, in an effort to discredit a political rival.

Black eye for Dems (or lefty socialist pinko liberals)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 16, 2016, 02:11:19 PM
I expect nothing but corruption from the liberals, speed of the leader,speed of the pack, I despise the Democrat party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 16, 2016, 04:57:57 PM
stew,
with that note, and assuming the same applies to the republicans, is there a party or candidate that you can get behind in US politics?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 16, 2016, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 16, 2016, 04:57:57 PM
stew,
with that note, and assuming the same applies to the republicans, is there a party or candidate that you can get behind in US politics?

The green party. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 16, 2016, 08:00:30 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 16, 2016, 04:57:57 PM
stew,
with that note, and assuming the same applies to the republicans, is there a party or candidate that you can get behind in US politics?

The democrats are rotten to their core, Saunders was shafted and their leader at the convention got the bullet for her shite, throw in l kilorys email scandals and the dirty Clinton foundation scandal and you have a morally bankrupt party that is the reason the middle East is the way it is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 17, 2016, 12:13:17 AM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2016, 02:11:19 PM
I expect nothing but corruption from the liberals, speed of the leader,speed of the pack, I despise the Democrat party.

Despise?

You are getting soft!

You'll end up voting for Hillary yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 17, 2016, 03:37:19 AM
Ben Bernanke gave a speech in 2013 where he told punters interest rates would return to normal around 2017. The dollar rose in anticipation
This week he admitted in a blog that rates are going nowhere .
This has huge implications for politics in the US .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 03:45:52 AM
it does?
what are the implications?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 17, 2016, 04:03:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 03:45:52 AM
it does?
what are the implications?
It means the economy is not going to recover. People are not going to get pay rises. Pension funds, banks and insurers will collapse. Income Inequality will widen

Trump rode a wave of blue collar disgust with the system. That will intensify. This election is a contest between an insider funded by the 1% and a  1%er representing blue collar rage. Neither will fix the system
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2016, 05:20:25 AM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2016, 08:00:30 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 16, 2016, 04:57:57 PM
stew,
with that note, and assuming the same applies to the republicans, is there a party or candidate that you can get behind in US politics?

The democrats are rotten to their core, Saunders was shafted and their leader at the convention got the bullet for her shite, throw in l kilorys email scandals and the dirty Clinton foundation scandal and you have a morally bankrupt party that is the reason the middle East is the way it is.

Who was president when the US invaded Iraq?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 05:22:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 17, 2016, 04:03:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 03:45:52 AM
it does?
what are the implications?
It means the economy is not going to recover. People are not going to get pay rises. Pension funds, banks and insurers will collapse. Income Inequality will widen

Only one of those is correct
Hint, its the last one, but not because of interest rates.

The low interest rates should be used to issue long term govvies to reboot the infrastructure and the education system. That would sorry out your pay rise and income gap concerns. Banks pension funds and insurers will be fine. Except the insurers writing flood and fire policies because they say there is no climate change. Those guys are screwed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 17, 2016, 08:43:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 17, 2016, 12:13:17 AM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2016, 02:11:19 PM
I expect nothing but corruption from the liberals, speed of the leader,speed of the pack, I despise the Democrat party.

Despise?

You are getting soft!

You'll end up voting for Hillary yet.


Never going to happen, that woman is a hateful turd.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 17, 2016, 09:23:57 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 05:22:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 17, 2016, 04:03:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 03:45:52 AM
it does?
what are the implications?
It means the economy is not going to recover. People are not going to get pay rises. Pension funds, banks and insurers will collapse. Income Inequality will widen

Only one of those is correct
Hint, its the last one, but not because of interest rates.

The low interest rates should be used to issue long term govvies to reboot the infrastructure and the education system. That would sorry out your pay rise and income gap concerns. Banks pension funds and insurers will be fine. Except the insurers writing flood and fire policies because they say there is no climate change. Those guys are screwed.

2013
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/bernanke20130301a.htm
If, as the FOMC anticipates, the economic recovery continues at a moderate pace, with unemployment slowly declining and inflation expectations remaining near 2 percent, then long-term interest rates would be expected to rise gradually toward more normal levels over the next several years. This rise would occur as the market's view of the expected date at which the Federal Reserve will begin the removal of policy accommodation draws nearer and then as accommodation is removed.


2016
https://www.brookings.edu/2016/08/08/the-feds-shifting-perspective-on-the-economy-and-its-implications-for-monetary-policy/
Over the past couple of years, FOMC participants have often signaled that they expected repeated increases in the federal funds rate as the economic recovery continued. In fact, the policy rate has been increased only once, in December 2015, and market participants now appear to expect few if any additional rate rises in coming quarters

Americans are not getting payrises
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/15/40-years-of-economic-policy-in-one-chart/

Insurers are in serious trouble

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-12/distressed-assets-pile-up-at-life-insurers-and-more-are-coming
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on August 17, 2016, 01:17:23 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqDxoJKUIAEXBkF.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 02:40:36 PM
Seafoid,
First of all opinion pieces, both mine and bernanke's . I happen to agree completely with Mike Whitney on cause. The tax system which rewards capital and screws labor completely promotes inequality growth, and stagnates wages by design. It has accelerated under Obama, but less so than under a Romney or McCain presidency. It will snowball under either presidential candidates regime. Many view Bernie as a socialist and speak to that as a bad thing, sadly many economists (vox pop not credited) actually agree that many of his policies would have addressed employment and inequality in the uS, greatly promoting well being for anyone with a job outside of the one percenters. Utility and rational choice theory for the economists.

Bernanke's  policy assumptions just happen to promote asset growth agrees Whitney. All of his assumptions in his more recent piece about less accommodative policy, less tight labor and inflation pressure are based on his polling of friendly economists within the status quo. His view on the fed rate grossly overstates it's impact on the country (imho) by examining the impact on asset prices.

What percentage of the American population benefit from the growth in asset prices, versus the very well documented multiplier effect of increased employment of government spending on infrastructure especially in a low interest rate environment. That creates pay rises, inflation and interest rate increases which in turn reduces the cost of the initially issues govvies.

The question to ask is how important is the Fed rate outside of your mortgage payment? Federal policy is significantly more impactful. And I mean that on macro level. Tax policy and investment policy, bond issuance policy. All big factors. Why is the focus on national debt?

Everyone and their mother says balance the books, if you were a household Obama you'd have to balance your budget, blah blah.  The United started is an appreciating asset. Invest in it.

Rant posted from phone apologies for typos etc.

By the way the insurers capital asset allocation policy and dumb investment decisions will be bailed by lobbying of dumb politicians, or by donations to those in tight races.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 17, 2016, 02:40:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2016, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 14, 2016, 08:52:35 PM
Criminals committing a crime... What exactly is your point??

He's basically saying "here is a black person committing a crime, because that's what black people do."

Hey Eamon - still nothing from you about Milwaukee? I thought you'd be outraged at a police shooting. No condemnation of the officer involved? I'm shocked!

I wonder why isn't BLM making a bigger deal out of it like they have previously?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 17, 2016, 03:38:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 17, 2016, 02:40:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2016, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 14, 2016, 08:52:35 PM
Criminals committing a crime... What exactly is your point??

He's basically saying "here is a black person committing a crime, because that's what black people do."

Hey Eamon - still nothing from you about Milwaukee? I thought you'd be outraged at a police shooting. No condemnation of the officer involved? I'm shocked!

I wonder why isn't BLM making a bigger deal out of it like they have previously?

Did you expect anything else?


Blm has been hijacked by racist ignorant scum whose whole agenda is anarchy and the democrats are one hundred percent behind them, scumbags.


The
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 17, 2016, 06:05:09 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 02:40:36 PM
Seafoid,
First of all opinion pieces, both mine and bernanke's . I happen to agree completely with Mike Whitney on cause. The tax system which rewards capital and screws labor completely promotes inequality growth, and stagnates wages by design. It has accelerated under Obama, but less so than under a Romney or McCain presidency. It will snowball under either presidential candidates regime. Many view Bernie as a socialist and speak to that as a bad thing, sadly many economists (vox pop not credited) actually agree that many of his policies would have addressed employment and inequality in the uS, greatly promoting well being for anyone with a job outside of the one percenters. Utility and rational choice theory for the economists.

Bernanke's  policy assumptions just happen to promote asset growth agrees Whitney. All of his assumptions in his more recent piece about less accommodative policy, less tight labor and inflation pressure are based on his polling of friendly economists within the status quo. His view on the fed rate grossly overstates it's impact on the country (imho) by examining the impact on asset prices.

What percentage of the American population benefit from the growth in asset prices, versus the very well documented multiplier effect of increased employment of government spending on infrastructure especially in a low interest rate environment. That creates pay rises, inflation and interest rate increases which in turn reduces the cost of the initially issues govvies.

The question to ask is how important is the Fed rate outside of your mortgage payment? Federal policy is significantly more impactful. And I mean that on macro level. Tax policy and investment policy, bond issuance policy. All big factors. Why is the focus on national debt?

Everyone and their mother says balance the books, if you were a household Obama you'd have to balance your budget, blah blah.  The United started is an appreciating asset. Invest in it.

Rant posted from phone apologies for typos etc.

By the way the insurers capital asset allocation policy and dumb investment decisions will be bailed by lobbying of dumb politicians, or by donations to those in tight races.
The Fed has pandered to the 1% since Greenssan.  Low rates mean deflation. It is ultra dangerous. The 1% prefer deflation because it increases their wealth . The US is looking at a rerun of the 30s . For infrastructure inv to happen the 1% have to be defeated. Is Hillary going to do it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 06:51:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 17, 2016, 06:05:09 PM
The Fed has pandered to the 1% since Greenssan.  Low rates mean deflation. It is ultra dangerous. The 1% prefer deflation because it increases their wealth . The US is looking at a rerun of the 30s . For infrastructure inv to happen the 1% have to be defeated. Is Hillary going to do it?
agreed on the fed and the tax code.
No shot on Clinton spending on infrastructure, unless there's an angle in it.
I would disagree somewhat on deflation, but again thats an opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 06:52:37 PM
so how about this theory:
QuoteFriends,

Donald Trump never actually wanted to be president of the United States. I know this for a fact. I'm not going to say how I know it. I'm not saying that Trump and I shared the same agent or lawyer or stylist or, if we did, that that would have anything to do with anything. And I'm certainly not saying that I ever overheard anything at those agencies or in the hallways of NBC or anywhere else. But there are certain people reading this right now, they know who they are, and they know that every word in the following paragraphs actually happened.

Trump was unhappy with his deal as host and star of his hit NBC show, "The Apprentice" (and "The Celebrity Apprentice"). Simply put, he wanted more money. He had floated the idea before of possibly running for president in the hopes that the attention from that would make his negotiating position stronger. But he knew, as the self-proclaimed king of the dealmakers, that saying you're going to do something is bupkus — DOING it is what makes the bastards sit up and pay attention.

Trump had begun talking to other networks about moving his show. This was another way to get leverage — the fear of losing him to someone else — and when he "quietly" met with the head of one of those networks, and word got around, his hand was strengthened. He knew then that it was time to play his Big Card.

He decided to run for president.

Of course he wouldn't really have to RUN for president — just make the announcement, hold a few mega-rallies that would be packed with tens of thousands of fans, and wait for the first opinion polls to come in showing him — what else! — in first place! And then he would get whatever deal he wanted, worth millions more than what he was currently being paid.

So, on June 16 of last year, he rode down his golden escalator and opened his mouth. With no campaign staff, no 50-state campaign infrastructure — neither of which he needed because, remember, this wasn't going to be a real campaign — and with no prepared script, he went off the rails at his kick-off press conference, calling Mexicans "rapists" and "drug dealers" and pledging to build a wall to keep them all out. Jaws in the room were agape. His comments were so offensive, NBC, far from offering him a bigger paycheck, immediately fired him with this terse statement: "Due to the recent derogatory statements by Donald Trump regarding immigrants, NBCUniversal is ending its business relationship with Mr. Trump." NBC said it was also canceling the beauty pageants owned by Trump: Miss USA and Miss Universe. BOOM.

Trump was stunned. So much for the art of the deal. He never expected this, but he stuck to his plan anyway to increase his "value" in the eyes of the other networks by showing them how many millions of Americans wanted Him to be their Leader. He knew, of course (and the people he trusted also told him) that there was no way he was actually going to win many (if any) of the primaries, and he certainly would not become the Republican nominee, and NEVER would he EVER be the President of the United States. Of course not! Nor would he want to be! The job of being President is WORK and BORING and you have to live in the GHETTO of Washington, DC, in a SMALL 200-year old house that's damp and dreary and has only TWO floors! A "second floor" is not a penthouse! But none of this was a worry, as "Trump for President" was only a ruse that was going to last a few months.

And then something happened. And to be honest, if it happened to you, you might have reacted the same way. Trump, to his own surprise, ignited the country, especially among people who were the opposite of billionaires. He went straight to #1 in the polls of Republican voters. Up to 30,000 boisterous supporters started showing up to his rallies. TV ate it up. He became the first American celebrity to be able to book himself on any show he wanted to be on — and then NOT show up to the studio! From "Face the Nation" to "The Today Show" to Anderson Cooper, he was able to simply phone in and they'd put him on the air live. He could've been sitting on his golden toilet in Trump Tower for all we knew — and the media had no problem with any of that. In fact, CBS head Les Moonves famously admitted that Trump was very good for TV ratings and selling ads — music to the ears the NBC-spurned narcissist.

Trump fell in love with himself all over again, and he soon forgot his mission to get a good deal for a TV show. A TV show? Are you kldding — that's for losers like Chris Harrison, whoever that is (host of "The Bachelorette"). He was no longer king of the dealmakers — he was King of the World! His tiniest musings would be discussed and dissected everywhere by everybody for days, weeks, months! THAT never happened on "The Apprentice"! Host a TV show? He was the star of EVERY TV SHOW — and, soon, winning nearly every primary!

And then... you can see the moment it finally dawned on him... that "Oh shit!" revelation: "I'm actually going to be the Republican nominee — and my rich beautiful life is f#*@ing over!" It was the night he won the New Jersey primary. The headline on TIME.com was, "Donald Trump's Subdued Victory Speech After Winning New Jersey." Instead of it being one of his loud, brash speeches, it was downright depressing. No energy, no happiness, just the realization that now he was going to have to go through with this stunt that he started. It was no longer going to be performance art. He was going to have to go to work.

Soon, though, his karma caught up with him. Calling Mexicans "rapists" should have disqualified him on Day One (or for saying Obama wasn't born here, as he did in 2011). No, it took 13 months of racist, sexist, stupid comments before he finally undid himself with the trifecta of attacking the family of a slain soldier, ridiculing the Purple Heart and suggesting that the pro-gun crowd assassinate Hillary Clinton. By this past weekend, the look on his face said it all — "I hate this! I want my show back!" But it was too late. He was damaged goods, his brand beyond repair, a worldwide laughing stock — and worse, a soon-to-be loser.

But, let me throw out another theory, one that assumes that Trump isn't as dumb or crazy as he looks. Maybe the meltdown of the past three weeks was no accident. Maybe it's all part of his new strategy to get the hell out of a race he never intended to see through to its end anyway. Because, unless he is just "crazy," the only explanation for the unusual ramping up, day after day, of one disgustingly reckless statement after another is that he's doing it consciously (or subconsciously) so that he'll have to bow out or blame "others" for forcing him out. Many now are sensing the end game here because they know Trump seriously doesn't want to do the actual job — and, most importantly, he cannot and WILL NOT suffer through being officially and legally declared a loser — LOSER! — on the night of November 8th.

Trust me, I've met the guy. Spent an afternoon with him. He would rather invite the Clintons AND the Obamas to his next wedding than have that scarlet letter ("L") branded on his forehead seconds after the last polls have closed on that night, the evening of the final episode of the permanently cancelled Donald Trump Shit-Show.

Postscript:
Don, if you're reading this, do it soon. Give your pathetic party a chance to pick up the pieces and nominate Ryan or Romney so they can be the ones to lose the White House, the Senate, the House and yes, praise Jesus and the Notorious RBG, the Supreme Court. Don't be too hard on yourself. You're only the logical conclusion to a party that has lived off the currency of racism and bigotry and fellating the 1 percent for decades, and now their Trump has come home to roost.

From Mike Moore in the Huff post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/trump-self-sabotage_b_11545026.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on August 17, 2016, 07:03:42 PM
it could very well be true.  I've also read he purposely ran to break up the party and pave the way for hilary to win.  he definitely is not a conservative...or a republican
it's all a sham  - Hilary has it in the bag and the country is couped....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 17, 2016, 07:46:30 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 17, 2016, 06:52:37 PM
so how about this theory:
QuoteFriends,

Donald Trump never actually wanted to be president of the United States. I know this for a fact. I'm not going to say how I know it. I'm not saying that Trump and I shared the same agent or lawyer or stylist or, if we did, that that would have anything to do with anything. And I'm certainly not saying that I ever overheard anything at those agencies or in the hallways of NBC or anywhere else. But there are certain people reading this right now, they know who they are, and they know that every word in the following paragraphs actually happened.

Trump was unhappy with his deal as host and star of his hit NBC show, "The Apprentice" (and "The Celebrity Apprentice"). Simply put, he wanted more money. He had floated the idea before of possibly running for president in the hopes that the attention from that would make his negotiating position stronger. But he knew, as the self-proclaimed king of the dealmakers, that saying you're going to do something is bupkus — DOING it is what makes the b**tards sit up and pay attention.

Trump had begun talking to other networks about moving his show. This was another way to get leverage — the fear of losing him to someone else — and when he "quietly" met with the head of one of those networks, and word got around, his hand was strengthened. He knew then that it was time to play his Big Card.

He decided to run for president.

Of course he wouldn't really have to RUN for president — just make the announcement, hold a few mega-rallies that would be packed with tens of thousands of fans, and wait for the first opinion polls to come in showing him — what else! — in first place! And then he would get whatever deal he wanted, worth millions more than what he was currently being paid.

So, on June 16 of last year, he rode down his golden escalator and opened his mouth. With no campaign staff, no 50-state campaign infrastructure — neither of which he needed because, remember, this wasn't going to be a real campaign — and with no prepared script, he went off the rails at his kick-off press conference, calling Mexicans "rapists" and "drug dealers" and pledging to build a wall to keep them all out. Jaws in the room were agape. His comments were so offensive, NBC, far from offering him a bigger paycheck, immediately fired him with this terse statement: "Due to the recent derogatory statements by Donald Trump regarding immigrants, NBCUniversal is ending its business relationship with Mr. Trump." NBC said it was also canceling the beauty pageants owned by Trump: Miss USA and Miss Universe. BOOM.

Trump was stunned. So much for the art of the deal. He never expected this, but he stuck to his plan anyway to increase his "value" in the eyes of the other networks by showing them how many millions of Americans wanted Him to be their Leader. He knew, of course (and the people he trusted also told him) that there was no way he was actually going to win many (if any) of the primaries, and he certainly would not become the Republican nominee, and NEVER would he EVER be the President of the United States. Of course not! Nor would he want to be! The job of being President is WORK and BORING and you have to live in the GHETTO of Washington, DC, in a SMALL 200-year old house that's damp and dreary and has only TWO floors! A "second floor" is not a penthouse! But none of this was a worry, as "Trump for President" was only a ruse that was going to last a few months.

And then something happened. And to be honest, if it happened to you, you might have reacted the same way. Trump, to his own surprise, ignited the country, especially among people who were the opposite of billionaires. He went straight to #1 in the polls of Republican voters. Up to 30,000 boisterous supporters started showing up to his rallies. TV ate it up. He became the first American celebrity to be able to book himself on any show he wanted to be on — and then NOT show up to the studio! From "Face the Nation" to "The Today Show" to Anderson Cooper, he was able to simply phone in and they'd put him on the air live. He could've been sitting on his golden toilet in Trump Tower for all we knew — and the media had no problem with any of that. In fact, CBS head Les Moonves famously admitted that Trump was very good for TV ratings and selling ads — music to the ears the NBC-spurned narcissist.

Trump fell in love with himself all over again, and he soon forgot his mission to get a good deal for a TV show. A TV show? Are you kldding — that's for losers like Chris Harrison, whoever that is (host of "The Bachelorette"). He was no longer king of the dealmakers — he was King of the World! His tiniest musings would be discussed and dissected everywhere by everybody for days, weeks, months! THAT never happened on "The Apprentice"! Host a TV show? He was the star of EVERY TV SHOW — and, soon, winning nearly every primary!

And then... you can see the moment it finally dawned on him... that "Oh shit!" revelation: "I'm actually going to be the Republican nominee — and my rich beautiful life is f#*@ing over!" It was the night he won the New Jersey primary. The headline on TIME.com was, "Donald Trump's Subdued Victory Speech After Winning New Jersey." Instead of it being one of his loud, brash speeches, it was downright depressing. No energy, no happiness, just the realization that now he was going to have to go through with this stunt that he started. It was no longer going to be performance art. He was going to have to go to work.

Soon, though, his karma caught up with him. Calling Mexicans "rapists" should have disqualified him on Day One (or for saying Obama wasn't born here, as he did in 2011). No, it took 13 months of racist, sexist, stupid comments before he finally undid himself with the trifecta of attacking the family of a slain soldier, ridiculing the Purple Heart and suggesting that the pro-gun crowd assassinate Hillary Clinton. By this past weekend, the look on his face said it all — "I hate this! I want my show back!" But it was too late. He was damaged goods, his brand beyond repair, a worldwide laughing stock — and worse, a soon-to-be loser.

But, let me throw out another theory, one that assumes that Trump isn't as dumb or crazy as he looks. Maybe the meltdown of the past three weeks was no accident. Maybe it's all part of his new strategy to get the hell out of a race he never intended to see through to its end anyway. Because, unless he is just "crazy," the only explanation for the unusual ramping up, day after day, of one disgustingly reckless statement after another is that he's doing it consciously (or subconsciously) so that he'll have to bow out or blame "others" for forcing him out. Many now are sensing the end game here because they know Trump seriously doesn't want to do the actual job — and, most importantly, he cannot and WILL NOT suffer through being officially and legally declared a loser — LOSER! — on the night of November 8th.

Trust me, I've met the guy. Spent an afternoon with him. He would rather invite the Clintons AND the Obamas to his next wedding than have that scarlet letter ("L") branded on his forehead seconds after the last polls have closed on that night, the evening of the final episode of the permanently cancelled Donald Trump Shit-Show.

Postscript:
Don, if you're reading this, do it soon. Give your pathetic party a chance to pick up the pieces and nominate Ryan or Romney so they can be the ones to lose the White House, the Senate, the House and yes, praise Jesus and the Notorious RBG, the Supreme Court. Don't be too hard on yourself. You're only the logical conclusion to a party that has lived off the currency of racism and bigotry and fellating the 1 percent for decades, and now their Trump has come home to roost.

From Mike Moore in the Huff post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/trump-self-sabotage_b_11545026.html

What is it, 3 weeks since Moore wrote an article saying we'd better get used to saying President Trump, because he was sure to win? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on August 17, 2016, 08:21:42 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 17, 2016, 07:03:42 PM
it could very well be true.  I've also read he purposely ran to break up the party and pave the way for hilary to win.  he definitely is not a conservative...or a republican
it's all a sham  - Hilary has it in the bag and the country is couped....

Tinfoil hat much?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on August 17, 2016, 08:36:42 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 17, 2016, 08:21:42 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 17, 2016, 07:03:42 PM
it could very well be true.  I've also read he purposely ran to break up the party and pave the way for hilary to win.  he definitely is not a conservative...or a republican
it's all a sham  - Hilary has it in the bag and the country is couped....

Tinfoil hat much?
some of the stuff he comes outwith you couldn't make it up gallsman - he has to be purposely trying to derail his own chances
who in their right mind would advocate some of things he has....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzisNhRldmg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzisNhRldmg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2016, 04:13:19 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 17, 2016, 02:40:52 PM
Hey Eamon - still nothing from you about Milwaukee?

Try holding your breath.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2016, 04:23:00 AM
Hillary's odds of winning now at 88.3%. Any bounce Trump got from his convention is long gone and his odds keep going nowhere but down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on August 18, 2016, 05:23:38 AM
Mickey Moore talks an awful lot of sensationalist bullshit, but I think he has nailed it this time with Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2016, 06:06:33 AM
It's a convincing story all right. I'd be interested in hearing the inside story of the Trump campaign in a few years when Hillary's all settled in to the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on August 18, 2016, 10:33:01 AM
Anyone see this yet? Trump's lawyer bringing all his skills to bear against CNN - I never thought I would see Lionel R. Hutz in the flesh, but if you live long enough...

http://gawker.com/top-trump-attorney-on-universally-terrible-poll-numbers-1785424597
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 12:06:38 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 18, 2016, 10:33:01 AM
Anyone see this yet? Trump's lawyer bringing all his skills to bear against CNN - I never thought I would see Lionel R. Hutz in the flesh, but if you live long enough...

http://gawker.com/top-trump-attorney-on-universally-terrible-poll-numbers-1785424597

Car crash TV ... made better with how the anchor played it what a complete clown!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 18, 2016, 12:26:40 PM
White bluecollar voters are 35% of the electorate. Trump needs another 15 %.He has had a go at those who menstruate so that is them lost. The judge thing pissed off Hispanics. Hé has had a go at people who went to university.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on August 18, 2016, 03:10:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2016, 04:13:19 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 17, 2016, 02:40:52 PM
Hey Eamon - still nothing from you about Milwaukee?

Try holding your breath.

Refusing to engage because this latest shooting doesn't fit your liberal narrative of police wrongdoing or justification for riots.
It's a shame that the DNC is over otherwise his mom could have made an appearance on the stage telling everyone what a good boy he was.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2016, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 17, 2016, 07:03:42 PM
it could very well be true.  I've also read he purposely ran to break up the party and pave the way for hilary to win.  he definitely is not a conservative...or a republican
it's all a sham  - Hilary has it in the bag and the country is couped....

If all that is true, why was Trump tweeting on election night in 2012 about election fraud and Obama losing the popular vote (he didn't, by a long shot)?

I don't doubt for a second that Trump is all about himself first and probably cares about politics only insofar as they affect him and his bottom line personally, but that totally contradicts the notion that he would put himself through this ongoing public ordeal as a sacrificial lamb to facilitate her win or to destroy the GOP. What has he possibly got to gain from that? Someone as PR savvy as he is could NEVER think that acting out the role of bigoted demagogue would benefit either his business or his showbiz career. He wants to be president, but unfortunately for him, the only thing he has ever has going for him is his ability to push buttons, and that doesn't look like it is going to take him all the way (some new, outside event or unprecedented scandal notwithstanding).

Moore was telling us (only a few weeks ago after the RNC, as someone else here mentioned) that Trump's win was looking inevitable and we had all better get used to the idea of him as president. Now I know that Trump has engaged in possibly the more self-destructive campaign EVER in the weeks since, but that is only down to a change of setting (general election for primaries), NOT style. Trump has been campaigning in the exact same fashion since that first day in June 2015 when he told us all that Mexico was sending her rapists and criminals across the border, with, to paraphrase, presumably at least a few good people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2016, 08:23:38 PM
Did anyone see this in Union Square or any of the other venues where it materialized? (He's the one who brought dick size into the presidential campaign!) ;D

(http://cdn20.patch.com/inline_images/131055/1471536955.jpg)

http://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city/naked-trump-statue-captures-attention-union-square (http://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city/naked-trump-statue-captures-attention-union-square)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 19, 2016, 03:20:33 PM
Manafort gone . . .

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqOlwV-UkAAQnHo.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 19, 2016, 05:33:53 PM
Third change of campaign management in two months.

Bodes well for Trump hiring phenomenal, extraordinary people for his cabinet and other political jobs in his administration!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on August 25, 2016, 09:33:44 AM
Farage to the rescue.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37177938 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37177938)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on August 26, 2016, 12:10:27 PM
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/08/25/america-needs-to-leave-the-us-farrage-addresses-trump-rally/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/08/25/america-needs-to-leave-the-us-farrage-addresses-trump-rally/)

OUTGOING UKIP leader Nigel Farrage urged republicans at a Donald Trump rally in Jackson, Mississippi last night to leave the United States if they want to make America great again.

Appearing before 15,000 activists, Mr. Farrage was flanked by the presidential candidate as he delivered his speech, comparing the union of states to the European Union, and that America should 'Amexit immediately'.

"Why should you bow down to the United States?" Farrage asked the detached crowd, who had no idea what he was on about, but applauded like seals regardless, "America is better off without the US, just like Britain is better off without the EU. Do as I say and everything will be alright".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on September 02, 2016, 08:37:33 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-donald-trump-losing-garrison-keillor-20160831-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-donald-trump-losing-garrison-keillor-20160831-story.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 07, 2016, 03:23:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 18, 2016, 03:10:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2016, 04:13:19 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 17, 2016, 02:40:52 PM
Hey Eamon - still nothing from you about Milwaukee?

Try holding your breath.

Refusing to engage because this latest shooting doesn't fit your liberal narrative of police wrongdoing or justification for riots.
It's a shame that the DNC is over otherwise his mom could have made an appearance on the stage telling everyone what a good boy he was.

You'll also be pleased to know that the BLM chapter in London are really sticking it to the authorities.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/06/climate-change-racist-crisis-london-city-airport-black-lives-matter

Way to protest lads. and none of them even qualify! A bit like yourself eamon, too much guilt for no reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on September 14, 2016, 09:48:12 AM
Interesting Read - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/12/how-america-became-a-1-society (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/12/how-america-became-a-1-society)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 14, 2016, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 14, 2016, 09:48:12 AM
Interesting Read - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/12/how-america-became-a-1-society (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/12/how-america-became-a-1-society)

It is loaded in a certain direct, but still interesting.

I think a big problem though is 'unearned wealth'. This should be taxed to death in my opinion.

But in fairness to the article the discrepancy between the earnings of, for example, the CX of a Wall St. Bank and his staff, has grown outrageously in the last few decades. Capping the maximum salary of top employees at some multiple of the mean of their employees (or something along those lines) might be useful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 14, 2016, 10:22:39 AM
Quote from: muppet on September 14, 2016, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 14, 2016, 09:48:12 AM
Interesting Read - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/12/how-america-became-a-1-society (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/12/how-america-became-a-1-society)

It is loaded in a certain direct, but still interesting.

I think a big problem though is 'unearned wealth'. This should be taxed to death in my opinion.

But in fairness to the article the discrepancy between the earnings of, for example, the CX of a Wall St. Bank and his staff, has grown outrageously in the last few decades. Capping the maximum salary of top employees at some multiple of the mean of their employees (or something along those lines) might be useful.
CEOs get paid outrageous salaries for mediocrity. Morgan Stanley has failed to generare even 10% RoE for over a decade, for example. Most SnP 500 companies have falling earnings.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 14, 2016, 03:30:41 PM
Eamon. Still AWOL?

Deadly craic altogether, he scurried just like the liberal politicians in Wisconsin when they republican Governor they hated got elected.

FBI served for lying defending Clinton, the whole house of  cards seems to be falling down!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 14, 2016, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 14, 2016, 10:22:39 AM

CEOs get paid outrageous salaries for mediocrity. Morgan Stanley has failed to generare even 10% RoE for over a decade, for example. Most SnP 500 companies have falling earnings.

I agree, but if you want RoE use a tracker. Stock picking in FS is not a great plan
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 15, 2016, 01:08:16 PM
Now that the Donald has picked up all the lost ground after several faux pas we have a situation were he is tied with the lying crone.

It is remarkable to me that yet again she gets a pass from the Government after the latest email scandal this woman should be in a maximum security prison hospital.

Turncoat Colly Powell has really harmed his legacy and good enough for the aul ballix, his embarrassment makes me smile, I love that he tells it how it is between the Prez and the Clintons!

The left is an absolute mess, the are losing ground all over the place and it is because Clinton is despicable, unhealthy and a serial liar who is despised by those right, left and centre, oh yeah, ethics are a big concern as well.

Someone has to win this thing, I hope Trump does so that we can move away from the status quo, he cant do any worse than the weakling in chief they currently have!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2016, 06:11:51 PM
The irony of hoping Clinton loses to Trump because she is a "serial liar". Actually, its hypocrisy. Jesus wept!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on September 15, 2016, 06:39:41 PM
Stew previously hoped to God that Trump didn't win.

I just hope to god that, someday, he finds either his marbles or his meds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 15, 2016, 10:33:22 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-15/late-stage-lying-pneumonia-theory-vs-parkinson%E2%80%99s-disease-theory-doctors-chime
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 16, 2016, 08:07:54 AM
Are third party candidates making a dent in the polls anywhere this year?
The inability of anyone else to make a real run at the Presidency is a sad indictment of the entrenched nature of the 2 main parties.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 16, 2016, 10:13:59 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 15, 2016, 06:39:41 PM
Stew previously hoped to God that Trump didn't win.

I just hope to god that, someday, he finds either his marbles or his meds.

Don't you worry about me gallbladder, I am alright kid!

Clinton is the deplorable in this equation, and unfit physically and ethically to run a bordello let alone the USA, as much as I think Trump is a tube of the highest order she is worse, far worse, look at the issues she had had in the past month, she needs prison not promotion and every one of you liberals know it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on September 16, 2016, 10:22:51 AM
"No criminal charges"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dire Ear on September 16, 2016, 10:34:32 AM
Quote from: stew on September 16, 2016, 10:13:59 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 15, 2016, 06:39:41 PM
Stew previously hoped to God that Trump didn't win.

I just hope to god that, someday, he finds either his marbles or his meds.

Don't you worry about me gallbladder, I am alright kid!

Clinton is the deplorable in this equation, and unfit physically and ethically to run a bordello let alone the USA, as much as I think Trump is a tube of the highest order she is worse, far worse, look at the issues she had had in the past month, she needs prison not promotion and every one of you liberals know it.
[/quote
Agree with this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2016, 10:57:54 AM
Quote from: stew on September 16, 2016, 10:13:59 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 15, 2016, 06:39:41 PM
Stew previously hoped to God that Trump didn't win.

I just hope to god that, someday, he finds either his marbles or his meds.

Don't you worry about me gallbladder, I am alright kid!

Clinton is the deplorable in this equation, and unfit physically and ethically to run a bordello let alone the USA, as much as I think Trump is a tube of the highest order she is worse, far worse, look at the issues she had had in the past month, she needs prison not promotion and every one of you liberals know it.

How is she worse?

He has no policies beyond vague promises about building a wall paid for by Mexico and starting trade wars and beating the shit out of ISIS; he just spent two weeks jumping from one position to another and back again on immigration; he trades in juvenile, paranoid conspiracy theories, and lies about this that and the other.

Hillary, inexplicably, tries to downplay and spin and lie her way out of the email mess instead of just coming clean two years ago, but beyond that she is a serious politician with fleshed out ideas, whether you agree with them or not. Yes, she has had a bad couple of weeks, but Trump has had a horrendous year, regardless of whether he finally stumbled upon a campaign manager who can finally exert a relative amount of discipline on him (I say relative - he is having a go this week at that Flint preacher and he still won't denounce his birther insanity).

As for the health stuff - that's descending into Swiftboat/"McCain has an illegitimate black baby" levels of GOP desperation and dirt, but I guess it worked on those occasions with the simple minded morons, so why not have another go?

Clinton is a very poor candidate, but she is a serious politician, and given the circus that is the alternative, there is no debate to be had.

And speaking of debates, Trump better be working hard. They're coming very soon and he has mountains of shit for Hillary to bring up. Not Jekyll and Hyde conspiracy crap, actual statements on the record.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 16, 2016, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 16, 2016, 08:07:54 AM
Are third party candidates making a dent in the polls anywhere this year?
The inability of anyone else to make a real run at the Presidency is a sad indictment of the entrenched nature of the 2 main parties.

Read somewhere recently that libertarians are polling around 7-10% nationally, and Greens 3% or so.  You need 15% even to be allowed into the Presidential debates, though, so neither are going to make any run at winning.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
Their influence, as always, will be in terms of splitting the vote, like Nader in 2000 or Perot in 1992.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 16, 2016, 05:04:53 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 16, 2016, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 16, 2016, 08:07:54 AM
Are third party candidates making a dent in the polls anywhere this year?
The inability of anyone else to make a real run at the Presidency is a sad indictment of the entrenched nature of the 2 main parties.

Read somewhere recently that libertarians are polling around 7-10% nationally, and Greens 3% or so.  You need 15% even to be allowed into the Presidential debates, though, so neither are going to make any run at winning.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html)

Need 15% of what to be allowed - a facebook poll ? It's a closed shop designed to stop any other party gaining support or allowing their message to get across.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 16, 2016, 07:02:39 PM
QuoteOn Monday, the commission announced the five polls that will be averaged together to determine who is receiving 15% support nationwide.

The polls are ABC-Washington Post; CBS-New York Times; CNN-Opinion Research Corporation; Fox News; and NBC-Wall Street Journal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 16, 2016, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 16, 2016, 07:02:39 PM
QuoteOn Monday, the commission announced the five polls that will be averaged together to determine who is receiving 15% support nationwide.

The polls are ABC-Washington Post; CBS-New York Times; CNN-Opinion Research Corporation; Fox News; and NBC-Wall Street Journal.

I'm sure there's quite a lot of voters out there that don't know there are more than 2 options for president!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 16, 2016, 07:58:04 PM
Apparently the Donald has finally worked out that Obama was born in the US.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther-united-states/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 16, 2016, 08:56:22 PM
Quote from: dec on September 16, 2016, 07:58:04 PM
Apparently the Donald has finally worked out that Obama was born in the US.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther-united-states/index.html

Clever Donald - That will get him votes from the black population. I doubt he actually believes it (because we all know it isn't true).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 17, 2016, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 16, 2016, 08:56:22 PM
Quote from: dec on September 16, 2016, 07:58:04 PM
Apparently the Donald has finally worked out that Obama was born in the US.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther-united-states/index.html

Clever Donald - That will get him votes from the black population. I doubt he actually believes it (because we all know it isn't true).

We all know you have a dim view of African Americans with their whining about discrimination and their criminality, but now you're saying they're incredibly stupid too?!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 17, 2016, 02:34:02 PM
I read an article on an answer Clinton gave to a question on what her greatest contributions to society were, she spoke at length and said absolutely nothing at all, she can't run on her record because it is horrendous and that is why her entire focus is negative on Trump.

15% of people are still undecided, she has the black and the Hispanic vote sewn up and she still is a point behind that ballix Trump,

Time for change, enough of the same old same old.

I look forward to the next installment if leaks that hurt Clintons bid to be the POTUS.

I also cannot believe that muppet gallwhatever actually believed I would vote for Clinton! What a tube! :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 17, 2016, 02:45:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 17, 2016, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 16, 2016, 08:56:22 PM
Quote from: dec on September 16, 2016, 07:58:04 PM
Apparently the Donald has finally worked out that Obama was born in the US.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther-united-states/index.html

Clever Donald - That will get him votes from the black population. I doubt he actually believes it (because we all know it isn't true).

We all know you have a dim view of African Americans with their whining about discrimination and their criminality, but now you're saying they're incredibly stupid too?!
[/ququoteD you liberals take classes into putting words in peoples mouths perchance?

He never said black people are incredibly stupid, not even close!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 17, 2016, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 17, 2016, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 16, 2016, 08:56:22 PM
Quote from: dec on September 16, 2016, 07:58:04 PM
Apparently the Donald has finally worked out that Obama was born in the US.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther-united-states/index.html

Clever Donald - That will get him votes from the black population. I doubt he actually believes it (because we all know it isn't true).

We all know you have a dim view of African Americans with their whining about discrimination and their criminality, but now you're saying they're incredibly stupid too?!

J70 - that's an awful racist thing to say about the blacks. Shame on you for stereotyping them.

They are your words, not mine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyroneman on September 17, 2016, 08:36:04 PM
Quote.     I read an article on an answer Clinton gave to a question on what her greatest contributions to society were, she spoke at length and said absolutely nothing at all, she can't run on her record because it is horrendous and that is why her entire focus is negative on Trump.
   

Sometimes you don't really need to go all out to win, just make sure the other person loses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 17, 2016, 08:47:43 PM
Clinton is a poor candidate. She should be far ahead of Trump who is a lying racist misogynistic narcissist . And she isn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2016, 12:51:16 AM
Quote from: stew on September 17, 2016, 02:45:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 17, 2016, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 16, 2016, 08:56:22 PM
Quote from: dec on September 16, 2016, 07:58:04 PM
Apparently the Donald has finally worked out that Obama was born in the US.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther-united-states/index.html

Clever Donald - That will get him votes from the black population. I doubt he actually believes it (because we all know it isn't true).

We all know you have a dim view of African Americans with their whining about discrimination and their criminality, but now you're saying they're incredibly stupid too?!
you liberals take classes into putting words in peoples mouths perchance?

He never said black people are incredibly stupid, not even close!

That is exactly what he is saying if he thinks Trump's bullshit attempt to put his birther shite behind him is going to win black votes.

But go ahead and explain how else that statement could be interpreted.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2016, 12:52:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 17, 2016, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 17, 2016, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 16, 2016, 08:56:22 PM
Quote from: dec on September 16, 2016, 07:58:04 PM
Apparently the Donald has finally worked out that Obama was born in the US.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther-united-states/index.html

Clever Donald - That will get him votes from the black population. I doubt he actually believes it (because we all know it isn't true).

We all know you have a dim view of African Americans with their whining about discrimination and their criminality, but now you're saying they're incredibly stupid too?!

J70 - that's an awful racist thing to say about the blacks. Shame on you for stereotyping them.

They are your words, not mine.

They're my take on your attitude towards them based on your contributions here.

WAsn't making ANY statement on the actual situation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2016, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: stew on September 17, 2016, 02:34:02 PM
I read an article on an answer Clinton gave to a question on what her greatest contributions to society were, she spoke at length and said absolutely nothing at all, she can't run on her record because it is horrendous and that is why her entire focus is negative on Trump.

15% of people are still undecided, she has the black and the Hispanic vote sewn up and she still is a point behind that ballix Trump,

Time for change, enough of the same old same old.

I look forward to the next installment if leaks that hurt Clintons bid to be the POTUS.

I also cannot believe that muppet gallwhatever actually believed I would vote for Clinton! What a tube! :-[

If this campaign is the most negative ever, that is pretty much entirely down to Trump. He scorched-earthed his way through the GOP primaries with lies, appeals to prejudice and the most ridiculous negative, personal attacks seen in modern times (Ted Cruz STILL won't endorse him FFS!). That Clinton, after a relatively very substantial Dem primary season in opposition to Bernie, is forced down in the gutter now, is merely fighting fire with fire.

But that aside, exactly what change is it that Trump is going to bring, and how will that be for the better, or even at least better than Hillary?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 19, 2016, 01:06:16 PM
Hey, no fair. He's going to make America great again!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 20, 2016, 09:43:46 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 19, 2016, 01:06:16 PM
Hey, no fair. He's going to make America great again!

Meanwhile at the ranch the Dems let almost 600 people who were to be deported citizenship, ass clowns!

It was great to see the multi millionaire/billionaire Hollywood elite tell us all who to vote for, one stupid bitch even went so far as to compare Trump with Hitler, does anyone on here really give a damn who these tools want as President? I don't care who they are going to vote for and I give not one fig about their political affiliations lie!

The amount of money spent in America is staggering, how can these two not be corrupt when spending hundreds of millions of dollars for a job that pays a tiny fraction of that amount, power and influence are what make that job attractive, these two have both in spades, how much is enough for these greedy people?

Apparently the war with these terrorists is all about the Narrative people. people are dying all over the globe in many ways at the hands of these Islamic terrorist animals but that does not matter, Clinton and Obamantion want to win the narrative instead of taking these f**kers out by the root!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 20, 2016, 11:01:12 AM
Quote from: stew on September 20, 2016, 09:43:46 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 19, 2016, 01:06:16 PM
Hey, no fair. He's going to make America great again!

Meanwhile at the ranch the Dems let almost 600 people who were to be deported citizenship, ass clowns!

It was great to see the multi millionaire/billionaire Hollywood elite tell us all who to vote for, one stupid bitch even went so far as to compare Trump with Hitler, does anyone on here really give a damn who these tools want as President? I don't care who they are going to vote for and I give not one fig about their political affiliations lie!

The amount of money spent in America is staggering, how can these two not be corrupt when spending hundreds of millions of dollars for a job that pays a tiny fraction of that amount, power and influence are what make that job attractive, these two have both in spades, how much is enough for these greedy people?

Apparently the war with these terrorists is all about the Narrative people. people are dying all over the globe in many ways at the hands of these Islamic terrorist animals but that does not matter, Clinton and Obamantion want to win the narrative instead of taking these f**kers out by the root!

600 more Dem voters great and well needed in the fight against the fascists!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 20, 2016, 11:11:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 20, 2016, 11:01:12 AM
Quote from: stew on September 20, 2016, 09:43:46 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 19, 2016, 01:06:16 PM
Hey, no fair. He's going to make America great again!

Meanwhile at the ranch the Dems let almost 600 people who were to be deported citizenship, ass clowns!

It was great to see the multi millionaire/billionaire Hollywood elite tell us all who to vote for, one stupid bitch even went so far as to compare Trump with Hitler, does anyone on here really give a damn who these tools want as President? I don't care who they are going to vote for and I give not one fig about their political affiliations lie!

The amount of money spent in America is staggering, how can these two not be corrupt when spending hundreds of millions of dollars for a job that pays a tiny fraction of that amount, power and influence are what make that job attractive, these two have both in spades, how much is enough for these greedy people?

Apparently the war with these terrorists is all about the Narrative people. people are dying all over the globe in many ways at the hands of these Islamic terrorist animals but that does not matter, Clinton and Obamantion want to win the narrative instead of taking these f**kers out by the root!

600 more Dem voters great and well needed in the fight against the fascists!!

  :)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2016, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: stew on September 20, 2016, 09:43:46 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 19, 2016, 01:06:16 PM
Hey, no fair. He's going to make America great again!

Meanwhile at the ranch the Dems let almost 600 people who were to be deported citizenship, ass clowns!

It was great to see the multi millionaire/billionaire Hollywood elite tell us all who to vote for, one stupid bitch even went so far as to compare Trump with Hitler, does anyone on here really give a damn who these tools want as President? I don't care who they are going to vote for and I give not one fig about their political affiliations lie!

The amount of money spent in America is staggering, how can these two not be corrupt when spending hundreds of millions of dollars for a job that pays a tiny fraction of that amount, power and influence are what make that job attractive, these two have both in spades, how much is enough for these greedy people?

Apparently the war with these terrorists is all about the Narrative people. people are dying all over the globe in many ways at the hands of these Islamic terrorist animals but that does not matter, Clinton and Obamantion want to win the narrative instead of taking these f**kers out by the root!

FFS stew, the citizenship thing is down to a gap in fingerprint records going back to a failure to digitize them going back to the 90s. I haven't seen anything stating that this is a Dem or Obama failure and not a Bush/GOP failure also.

As for celebrity pontificating on candidates, there is plenty of that on both sides: do you get upset when right wingers do it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on September 24, 2016, 07:34:25 PM
An interesting piece on the appeal of Trump to white male workers and how it's related to the decline of unions:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/opinion/sunday/the-decline-of-unions-and-the-rise-of-trump.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/opinion/sunday/the-decline-of-unions-and-the-rise-of-trump.html?_r=0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 26, 2016, 03:22:25 PM
The first debate is on tonight, 9pm Eastern time. It is expected to get a massive audience, all the major networks will be showing it so it won't have any competition other than Monday Night football (Atlanta Falcons v New Orleans Saints).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Billys Boots on September 26, 2016, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 24, 2016, 07:34:25 PM
An interesting piece on the appeal of Trump to white male workers and how it's related to the decline of unions:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/opinion/sunday/the-decline-of-unions-and-the-rise-of-trump.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/opinion/sunday/the-decline-of-unions-and-the-rise-of-trump.html?_r=0)

It's very interesting that while the Republican party has been the main instigator of the disempowerment of the US trade unions, the vulnerable turn in their moment of need to ... a Republican candidate. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 26, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
At this stage I think the debates will be the major factor in this Election. If Hillary can lure the Donald into a few traps and call him out then she should win quite easy but if she lets him away with the childish bullying without fighting back smarter then she could be in real difficulty.

If she can turn this into a substantive debate on policies then she wipes the floor with him but if it turns into a dogfight then I think he wins which is a pity. It could end up being real car crash TV!!

I would love to stay up and watch it but it's far too late.

I hope she wipes the floor with him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on September 26, 2016, 04:10:06 PM
Are there many "undecideds" at this stage ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Canalman on September 26, 2016, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: Minder on September 26, 2016, 04:10:06 PM
Are there many "undecideds" at this stage ?

Not too many, but they and in particular the ones in the so called swing states usually decide the elections.

Reckon both camps each have give or take 45%  hard core voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2016, 04:47:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 26, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
At this stage I think the debates will be the major factor in this Election. If Hillary can lure the Donald into a few traps and call him out then she should win quite easy but if she lets him away with the childish bullying without fighting back smarter then she could be in real difficulty.

If she can turn this into a substantive debate on policies then she wipes the floor with him but if it turns into a dogfight then I think he wins which is a pity. It could end up being real car crash TV!!

I would love to stay up and watch it but it's far too late.

I hope she wipes the floor with him.

It doesn't matter if she is full of substance, these debates are all about "gotcha" moments or someone making the wrong facial expression or some smartarse putdown.

Think Bush Senior looking at his watch (OMG!!), Reagan ending the age issue in '84 with a joke or "besting" Jimmy Carter by saying "there you go again", Al Gore looking bored, the "You're no Jack Kennedy" putdown of Quayle.

The Trump campaign is furiously fighting back against the idea of him being fact checked as well during the debate. They know he has little to bring to the table in terms of details and  I guess are hoping that he is just allowed to bullshit away and look the part with no real time pushback.

Basically, with the low expectations, as long as he doesn't behave by an arsehole, he has little to lose, while she has a lot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 26, 2016, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2016, 04:47:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 26, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
At this stage I think the debates will be the major factor in this Election. If Hillary can lure the Donald into a few traps and call him out then she should win quite easy but if she lets him away with the childish bullying without fighting back smarter then she could be in real difficulty.

If she can turn this into a substantive debate on policies then she wipes the floor with him but if it turns into a dogfight then I think he wins which is a pity. It could end up being real car crash TV!!

I would love to stay up and watch it but it's far too late.

I hope she wipes the floor with him.

It doesn't matter if she is full of substance, these debates are all about "gotcha" moments or someone making the wrong facial expression or some smartarse putdown.

Think Bush Senior looking at his watch (OMG!!), Reagan ending the age issue in '84 with a joke or "besting" Jimmy Carter by saying "there you go again", Al Gore looking bored, the "You're no Jack Kennedy" putdown of Quayle.

The Trump campaign is furiously fighting back against the idea of him being fact checked as well during the debate. They know he has little to bring to the table in terms of details and  I guess are hoping that he is just allowed to bullshit away and look the part with no real time pushback.

Basically, with the low expectations, as long as he doesn't behave by an arsehole, he has little to lose, while she has a lot.

Just having a think about it there and it's going to be really difficult for him not to be portrayed as a bully beating up on a woman!!

That will probably be the over riding narrative that comes from this because he's not going to change and if he hits Hillary as hard as he did Jeb or Marco or Ted then it's not going to play as well as it did against those guys!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on September 26, 2016, 05:21:59 PM
You're right there, J70, and I fear that Roger Ailes has armed Trump with a few timely put-downs that will play well with the peanut-crunching crowd.  Substance, I fear, may well be irrelevant since these debates are debate in name only.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on September 26, 2016, 05:25:26 PM
Has anyone seen this, at a Trump rally ?

https://youtu.be/eFQhw3VVToQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 26, 2016, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 26, 2016, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 24, 2016, 07:34:25 PM
An interesting piece on the appeal of Trump to white male workers and how it's related to the decline of unions:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/opinion/sunday/the-decline-of-unions-and-the-rise-of-trump.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/opinion/sunday/the-decline-of-unions-and-the-rise-of-trump.html?_r=0)

It's very interesting that while the Republican party has been the main instigator of the disempowerment of the US trade unions, the vulnerable turn in their moment of need to ... a Republican candidate.

Yea, it would be like the UK unions turning to the Tories. Bananas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 26, 2016, 05:54:45 PM
Election could be decided tonight.... If either candidate has a melt down, could be game over
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 26, 2016, 05:57:43 PM
Quote from: Minder on September 26, 2016, 05:25:26 PM
Has anyone seen this, at a Trump rally ?

https://youtu.be/eFQhw3VVToQ
The chap with the red hat should be running for President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 26, 2016, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 26, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
At this stage I think the debates will be the major factor in this Election. If Hillary can lure the Donald into a few traps and call him out then she should win quite easy but if she lets him away with the childish bullying without fighting back smarter then she could be in real difficulty.

If she can turn this into a substantive debate on policies then she wipes the floor with him but if it turns into a dogfight then I think he wins which is a pity. It could end up being real car crash TV!!

I would love to stay up and watch it but it's far too late.

I hope she wipes the floor with him.

I hope he exposes her for the American/ Muslim killing machine that she is.

The woman is a coat-tailing hack that has failed at every turn as an elected official, except for getting elected, but hey, look at the people who have crossed her and their fate? I hope she bites when trump nails her on her husband, benghazi, her record, her comments on women,her love of big government and her husband's corrupt foundation, her support of partial birth abortion, her amazing capacity for lying and getting away with it and lastly, her deplorables comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 26, 2016, 07:30:41 PM
Stew,
So definitely undecided at this point? All to play for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 26, 2016, 07:50:53 PM
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=mobilebar&v=1


Getting closer by the minute
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 26, 2016, 09:01:47 PM
Quote from: stew on September 26, 2016, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 26, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
At this stage I think the debates will be the major factor in this Election. If Hillary can lure the Donald into a few traps and call him out then she should win quite easy but if she lets him away with the childish bullying without fighting back smarter then she could be in real difficulty.

If she can turn this into a substantive debate on policies then she wipes the floor with him but if it turns into a dogfight then I think he wins which is a pity. It could end up being real car crash TV!!

I would love to stay up and watch it but it's far too late.

I hope she wipes the floor with him.

I hope he exposes her for the American/ Muslim killing machine that she is.

The woman is a coat-tailing hack that has failed at every turn as an elected official, except for getting elected, but hey, look at the people who have crossed her and their fate? I hope she bites when trump nails her on her husband, benghazi, her record, her comments on women,her love of big government and her husband's corrupt foundation, her support of partial birth abortion, her amazing capacity for lying and getting away with it and lastly, her deplorables comment.

Stew I think you are finally warming to her. This election might be a bit soon, but I could see you voting for her re-election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2016, 09:13:26 PM
Quote from: stew on September 26, 2016, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 26, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
At this stage I think the debates will be the major factor in this Election. If Hillary can lure the Donald into a few traps and call him out then she should win quite easy but if she lets him away with the childish bullying without fighting back smarter then she could be in real difficulty.

If she can turn this into a substantive debate on policies then she wipes the floor with him but if it turns into a dogfight then I think he wins which is a pity. It could end up being real car crash TV!!

I would love to stay up and watch it but it's far too late.

I hope she wipes the floor with him.

I hope he exposes her for the American/ Muslim killing machine that she is.

The woman is a coat-tailing hack that has failed at every turn as an elected official, except for getting elected, but hey, look at the people who have crossed her and their fate? I hope she bites when trump nails her on her husband, benghazi, her record, her comments on women,her love of big government and her husband's corrupt foundation, her support of partial birth abortion, her amazing capacity for lying and getting away with it and lastly, her deplorables comment.

Who crossed her and what fate did they meet? What lies did she get away with? (and are you even remotely aware of the ludicrous hypocrisy of wishing Trump would beat on this basis?) Are you aware that the GOP has led the way on killing and war?

Lastly, while she may have got the proportion wrong, the deplorables comment was right on the money.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 26, 2016, 11:58:18 PM
an hour and a half under the bright lights be interesting to see how Hillary holds up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 27, 2016, 01:16:36 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 04, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
one of the issues that most people face when looking at the coverage of the US elections is that what they see is actually just that  - coverage. It is the media and their friends and colleagues talking about the race and what is happening. the more outrageous the coverage the more papers are sold, the more viewers for the show, the more page impressions and higher ad revenue.

To combat this and to look at facts I'm going to suggest you take a look at fivethirtyeight.com Nate Silver is regarded (yup- opinion again) as one of the best statisticians around. Take a look at his wikipedia page to see how successful he has been in the past. The short version is that in 2008 and 2012 he called the state race accurately in 49 out of 50 and then 50 out of 50.

The models he use has Hillary at the most likely win since polling started, at 91.6%
Silvers models are quantitative analytics and factor in a lot of external dependencies, but not news or opinion.
The site is treated as an academic paper and references are included so you can see where the data is being sourced.

At this point there is a one in 12 shot that Hilary will not be the first female president of the Unites States. with the only states in play really being Arizona and Georgia.

However the big question for the republicans at this point in the process is what to do about the Donald. To stew's point is he really a Republican? Can the candidates for election from the GOP take the calculated gamble to come out against him?

if Hilary wins the Dems need 4 more seats in the senate to own it (in a 50-50 vote the Vp casts the deciding vote) Can the GOP hold those seats?

There is an opinion piece here
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-may-start-dragging-gop-senate-candidates-down-with-him/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-may-start-dragging-gop-senate-candidates-down-with-him/)
which looks at the polling data and suggests (again an opinion not a fact) that it will require a new pattern in american voting for the Republicans to hold on to many of these seats, which is ticket splitting. Usually in the US the voters pick the party of the presidential candidate they prefer and vote for that party the whole way down the ticket. if that pattern continues, the GOP could be in serious trouble.

Down to 55 - 45 % at the minute, with my other fav predictor the bookies, Trump is not <2-1

Lot of deplorables out there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2016, 02:29:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 26, 2016, 11:58:18 PM
an hour and a half under the bright lights be interesting to see how Hillary holds up.

Is this a health conspiracy thing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 27, 2016, 02:57:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2016, 02:29:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 26, 2016, 11:58:18 PM
an hour and a half under the bright lights be interesting to see how Hillary holds up.

Is this a health conspiracy thing?
she had pneumonia 2 weeks ago ? No
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2016, 03:03:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2016, 02:57:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2016, 02:29:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 26, 2016, 11:58:18 PM
an hour and a half under the bright lights be interesting to see how Hillary holds up.

Is this a health conspiracy thing?
she had pneumonia 2 weeks ago ? No

I had walking pneumonia myself last year. After a few days I was fine. She's been back in the campaign on a couple of weeks. I'm sure she will get through it handy enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 27, 2016, 04:57:37 AM
That was pretty boring stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 27, 2016, 05:01:52 AM
Bad night for the orange one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2016, 08:01:37 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on September 27, 2016, 01:16:36 AM
Quote from: heganboy on August 04, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
one of the issues that most people face when looking at the coverage of the US elections is that what they see is actually just that  - coverage. It is the media and their friends and colleagues talking about the race and what is happening. the more outrageous the coverage the more papers are sold, the more viewers for the show, the more page impressions and higher ad revenue.

To combat this and to look at facts I'm going to suggest you take a look at fivethirtyeight.com Nate Silver is regarded (yup- opinion again) as one of the best statisticians around. Take a look at his wikipedia page to see how successful he has been in the past. The short version is that in 2008 and 2012 he called the state race accurately in 49 out of 50 and then 50 out of 50.

The models he use has Hillary at the most likely win since polling started, at 91.6%
Silvers models are quantitative analytics and factor in a lot of external dependencies, but not news or opinion.
The site is treated as an academic paper and references are included so you can see where the data is being sourced.

At this point there is a one in 12 shot that Hilary will not be the first female president of the Unites States. with the only states in play really being Arizona and Georgia.

However the big question for the republicans at this point in the process is what to do about the Donald. To stew's point is he really a Republican? Can the candidates for election from the GOP take the calculated gamble to come out against him?

if Hilary wins the Dems need 4 more seats in the senate to own it (in a 50-50 vote the Vp casts the deciding vote) Can the GOP hold those seats?

There is an opinion piece here
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-may-start-dragging-gop-senate-candidates-down-with-him/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-may-start-dragging-gop-senate-candidates-down-with-him/)
which looks at the polling data and suggests (again an opinion not a fact) that it will require a new pattern in american voting for the Republicans to hold on to many of these seats, which is ticket splitting. Usually in the US the voters pick the party of the presidential candidate they prefer and vote for that party the whole way down the ticket. if that pattern continues, the GOP could be in serious trouble.

Down to 55 - 45 % at the minute, with my other fav predictor the bookies, Trump is not <2-1

Lot of deplorables out there.
The GOP are worried that Trump will lose and take a lot of GOP candidates with him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2016, 08:10:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QbXk0q6z8U
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on September 27, 2016, 09:18:16 AM
Poor Donald got a defective mic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: highorlow on September 27, 2016, 09:50:52 AM
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 27, 2016, 09:54:25 AM
Hillary wiped the floor with him last night by any account you read other than Sean Hannity...

You ok stew??  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on September 27, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 27, 2016, 09:50:52 AM
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

All of this rings so true :'(.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on September 27, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for

Unfortunately for humanity, you are right.  But, like Tony Fearon, I think it would be impossible to deliver a knockout blow on Trump.  His supporters are completely averse to rational thought.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2016, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 27, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for

Unfortunately for humanity, you are right.  But, like Tony Fearon, I think it would be impossible to deliver a knockout blow on Trump.  His supporters are completely averse to rational thought.
A lot of people do not trust her. She won't be able to draw out the black vote like Obama. I think she is a poor candidate. Trump will clean up in the rust belt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 27, 2016, 02:25:56 PM
34 false things said by Donny last night compared to 4 from HRC

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/09/27/donald-trump-said-34-false-things-at-first-presidential-debate.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 27, 2016, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 27, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for

Unfortunately for humanity, you are right.  But, like Tony Fearon, I think it would be impossible to deliver a knockout blow on Trump.  His supporters are completely averse to rational thought.

Wheras Clinton's fawning minnions have no morals nor ethics and are fine with a serial liar and war criminal at the helm, both are awful but only one of them should be in prison and it ain't Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 27, 2016, 02:46:54 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 27, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for

Unfortunately for humanity, you are right.  But, like Tony Fearon, I think it would be impossible to deliver a knockout blow on Trump.  His supporters are completely averse to rational thought.

Wheras Clinton's fawning minnions have no morals nor ethics and are fine with a serial liar and war criminal at the helm, both are awful but only one of them should be in prison and it ain't Trump.

Oh good you've finally found the evidence that the FBI, 33 Congressional Hearings and 10 Congressional Committees haven't been able to find that prove she's a criminal?

Check your facts as well Clinton has told less lies over the campaign than the bold Donaldo!

Seriously lad you need to chill out and for god's sake change the f**king record!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 27, 2016, 03:44:18 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 27, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 27, 2016, 09:50:52 AM
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

All of this rings so true :'(.

And a couple of weeks later he ran an article about how Trump was deliberately trying to lose.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/trump-self-sabotage_b_11545026.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/trump-self-sabotage_b_11545026.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2016, 04:24:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 27, 2016, 02:46:54 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 27, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for

Unfortunately for humanity, you are right.  But, like Tony Fearon, I think it would be impossible to deliver a knockout blow on Trump.  His supporters are completely averse to rational thought.

Wheras Clinton's fawning minnions have no morals nor ethics and are fine with a serial liar and war criminal at the helm, both are awful but only one of them should be in prison and it ain't Trump.

Oh good you've finally found the evidence that the FBI, 33 Congressional Hearings and 10 Congressional Committees haven't been able to find that prove she's a criminal?

Check your facts as well Clinton has told less lies over the campaign than the bold Donaldo!

Seriously lad you need to chill out and for god's sake change the f**king record!!!

I'm quite sure all the evidence  you need is in the 33000 deleted emails ( which were under federal suponea) or on the forensically scrubbed server.  I'm sure the "October surprise" will be praticularly tasty this year
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on September 27, 2016, 04:43:38 PM
To me, Trump bragging about not paying his taxes was his biggest mistake last night. It might make good business sense to not pay taxes but it's not what a member of the middle class wants to hear from a presidential candidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 27, 2016, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 04:24:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 27, 2016, 02:46:54 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 27, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for

Unfortunately for humanity, you are right.  But, like Tony Fearon, I think it would be impossible to deliver a knockout blow on Trump.  His supporters are completely averse to rational thought.

Wheras Clinton's fawning minnions have no morals nor ethics and are fine with a serial liar and war criminal at the helm, both are awful but only one of them should be in prison and it ain't Trump.

Oh good you've finally found the evidence that the FBI, 33 Congressional Hearings and 10 Congressional Committees haven't been able to find that prove she's a criminal?

Check your facts as well Clinton has told less lies over the campaign than the bold Donaldo!

Seriously lad you need to chill out and for god's sake change the f**king record!!!

I'm quite sure all the evidence  you need is in the 33000 deleted emails ( which were under federal suponea) or on the forensically scrubbed server.  I'm sure the "October surprise" will be praticularly tasty this year

So you don't have any evidence she's a criminal either??

Run along there so...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2016, 05:00:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 27, 2016, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 04:24:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 27, 2016, 02:46:54 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 27, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for

Unfortunately for humanity, you are right.  But, like Tony Fearon, I think it would be impossible to deliver a knockout blow on Trump.  His supporters are completely averse to rational thought.

Wheras Clinton's fawning minnions have no morals nor ethics and are fine with a serial liar and war criminal at the helm, both are awful but only one of them should be in prison and it ain't Trump.

Oh good you've finally found the evidence that the FBI, 33 Congressional Hearings and 10 Congressional Committees haven't been able to find that prove she's a criminal?

Check your facts as well Clinton has told less lies over the campaign than the bold Donaldo!

Seriously lad you need to chill out and for god's sake change the f**king record!!!

I'm quite sure all the evidence  you need is in the 33000 deleted emails ( which were under federal suponea) or on the forensically scrubbed server.  I'm sure the "October surprise" will be praticularly tasty this year

So you don't have any evidence she's a criminal either??

Run along there so...

I don't have it, but I'm sure wiki leaks does
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2016, 05:01:14 PM
Oliver Stone was interviewed in Die Zeit and said the election is a circus. Neither candidate is interested in addressing militarism, mass surveillance, mass incarceration, healthcare which costs 18% of GDP , the 1%, the Fed or anything else relevant to the lives of Americans. The US is a plutocracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on September 27, 2016, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2016, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 27, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for

Unfortunately for humanity, you are right.  But, like Tony Fearon, I think it would be impossible to deliver a knockout blow on Trump.  His supporters are completely averse to rational thought.
A lot of people do not trust her. She won't be able to draw out the black vote like Obama. I think she is a poor candidate. Trump will clean up in the rust belt.

Not sure what relevance this has to the bit you quoted from me, but yes, you're probably right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on September 27, 2016, 05:17:45 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 27, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
Clinton won the debate but didn't deliver a knockout blow

All to play for

Unfortunately for humanity, you are right.  But, like Tony Fearon, I think it would be impossible to deliver a knockout blow on Trump.  His supporters are completely averse to rational thought.

Wheras Clinton's fawning minnions have no morals nor ethics and are fine with a serial liar and war criminal at the helm, both are awful but only one of them should be in prison and it ain't Trump.

Yeah, it's sad indictment on the 'greatest nation on earth' that these two cretins are the best it can produce as candidates for its presidency.  Unfortunately, it's a two horse race and one's a donkey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on September 27, 2016, 06:52:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE8gffPz69Y
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on September 27, 2016, 07:54:18 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
I agree, after the Brits voted in favor of Brexit anything is possible. People are so angry with the political establishment they don't care about the consequences of voting the likes of Trump into power. It's a pity he's such a clown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 27, 2016, 08:45:07 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.

I am praying that liar racist war mongering war criminal gets held accountable for the email scandal, the second email scandal, Benghazi, the lies she told the Senate and of course, corruption surrounding the Clinton Foundatoon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 27, 2016, 09:13:23 PM
I would like if you pray instead of vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 27, 2016, 09:20:26 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 08:45:07 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.

I am praying that liar racist war mongering war criminal gets held accountable for the email scandal, the second email scandal, Benghazi, the lies she told the Senate and of course, corruption surrounding the Clinton Foundatoon.

Come on stew give us the inside scoop on area 51, where is Jimmy Hoffa and who really killed JFK??

You're worse than Trumps deplorables!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

WTF are you talking about? She was elected to the Senate in 2000. She was not a politician before that. If she had influence on her husband as president, it must have been mostly for the better given how good things were in the 90s. Similarly, Arkansas was pretty content with them, given they reelected Bill numerous times.

What racist comments did she make about black men? The "super predators" thing? That wasn't about black men per se. That was about gang members in the drug trade who kill without empathy or remorse. How about you pull up some GOP pushback on that speech which doesn't involve talking points connected to this election?

It's like you have no original thoughts stew - it's all right wing talking points you're spouting here. And don't blame Lester Holt for Trump f**king up. How about his "tremendous" temperament and his complete lack of prep. He had plenty of opportunities to drive home his points, but when you fly by the seat of your pants...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 28, 2016, 03:13:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 27, 2016, 09:13:23 PM
I would like if you pray instead of vote

Why should anyone give a shit war you want?\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 28, 2016, 03:18:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 27, 2016, 09:20:26 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 08:45:07 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.

I am praying that liar racist war mongering war criminal gets held accountable for the email scandal, the second email scandal, Benghazi, the lies she told the Senate and of course, corruption surrounding the Clinton Foundatoon.

Come on stew give us the inside scoop on area 51, where is Jimmy Hoffa and who really killed JFK??

You're worse than Trumps deplorables!!

And you are a pedantic fawning gobshite who ties the party line even though you know herself is a horrible kaant!

You liberals actually believe you are right and are sanctimonious git's about it, in this election, there is no right, it's all fucked! Two mega rich arsewipes have boughtvtge opportunity to get this far, your hero killing has spent more and four years from,now, when the country is even more effed than it is now, you will be reminded of your blind following of this useless, horrible excuse of a human being.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on September 28, 2016, 03:19:21 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2016, 03:13:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 27, 2016, 09:13:23 PM
I would like if you pray instead of vote

Why should anyone give a shit war you want?\

Shut the f**k up you blithering imbecile.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 28, 2016, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on September 28, 2016, 03:19:21 PM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2016, 03:13:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 27, 2016, 09:13:23 PM
I would like if you pray instead of vote

Why should anyone give a shit war you want?\

Shut the f**k up you blithering imbecile.
[/quote


Ooooh, touchy are we oh arrogant one :)

What did I wrote that offended you so bladdy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 28, 2016, 03:31:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

WTF are you talking about? She was elected to the Senate in 2000. She was not a politician before that. If she had influence on her husband as president, it must have been mostly for the better given how good things were in the 90s. Similarly, Arkansas was pretty content with them, given they reelected Bill numerous times.

What racist comments did she make about black men? The "super predators" thing? That wasn't about black men per se. That was about gang members in the drug trade who kill without empathy or remorse. How about you pull up some GOP pushback on that speech which doesn't involve talking points connected to this election?

It's like you have no original thoughts stew - it's all right wing talking points you're spouting here. And don't blame Lester Holt for Trump f**king up. How about his "tremendous" temperament and his complete lack of prep. He had plenty of opportunities to drive home his points, but when you fly by the seat of your pants...

Your candidate is a racist tr**p, liberal spin does not change the facts, you lot sicken me with your defence of this horrible bastard, she is a racist under whose watch black Americans have suffered, more black homeless now than since the depression in 29.

But yuck it up for the liberal candidate because you know we are the progessives etc etc, utter balderdash.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
Great post. a vote for Trump would be another vote against their own interest.

A lot of white bluecollar GOP voters have Ulster Protestant roots. The community has a problem with demagogues and arseholes who call themselves leaders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 28, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
Great post. a vote for Trump would be another vote against their own interest.

A lot of white bluecollar GOP voters have Ulster Protestant roots. The community has a problem with demagogues and arseholes who call themselves leaders.

I don't know if I buy the whole "voting against your economic self interest" line

If you work, and are a middle wage earner many Democratic proposals or agenda items would be enough to put you in the poor house.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on September 28, 2016, 04:13:00 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html (http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html)

Where is your faux outrage now Stew?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

WTF are you talking about? She was elected to the Senate in 2000. She was not a politician before that. If she had influence on her husband as president, it must have been mostly for the better given how good things were in the 90s. Similarly, Arkansas was pretty content with them, given they reelected Bill numerous times.

What racist comments did she make about black men? The "super predators" thing? That wasn't about black men per se. That was about gang members in the drug trade who kill without empathy or remorse. How about you pull up some GOP pushback on that speech which doesn't involve talking points connected to this election?

It's like you have no original thoughts stew - it's all right wing talking points you're spouting here. And don't blame Lester Holt for Trump f**king up. How about his "tremendous" temperament and his complete lack of prep. He had plenty of opportunities to drive home his points, but when you fly by the seat of your pants...
In fairness she tried to reform healthcare in the early 90s and failed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 28, 2016, 05:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
Great post. a vote for Trump would be another vote against their own interest.

A lot of white bluecollar GOP voters have Ulster Protestant roots. The community has a problem with demagogues and arseholes who call themselves leaders.

I don't know if I buy the whole "voting against your economic self interest" line

If you work, and are a middle wage earner many Democratic proposals or agenda items would be enough to put you in the poor house.

Could you please tell me which proposals and agenda items you are referring to?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 28, 2016, 08:05:39 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 28, 2016, 05:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
Great post. a vote for Trump would be another vote against their own interest.

A lot of white bluecollar GOP voters have Ulster Protestant roots. The community has a problem with demagogues and arseholes who call themselves leaders.

I don't know if I buy the whole "voting against your economic self interest" line

If you work, and are a middle wage earner many Democratic proposals or agenda items would be enough to put you in the poor house.

Could you please tell me which proposals and agenda items you are referring to?




http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/26/why-these-union-members-and-lifelong-democrats-are-voting-trump.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2016, 01:32:54 AM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2016, 03:31:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

WTF are you talking about? She was elected to the Senate in 2000. She was not a politician before that. If she had influence on her husband as president, it must have been mostly for the better given how good things were in the 90s. Similarly, Arkansas was pretty content with them, given they reelected Bill numerous times.

What racist comments did she make about black men? The "super predators" thing? That wasn't about black men per se. That was about gang members in the drug trade who kill without empathy or remorse. How about you pull up some GOP pushback on that speech which doesn't involve talking points connected to this election?

It's like you have no original thoughts stew - it's all right wing talking points you're spouting here. And don't blame Lester Holt for Trump f**king up. How about his "tremendous" temperament and his complete lack of prep. He had plenty of opportunities to drive home his points, but when you fly by the seat of your pants...

Your candidate is a racist tr**p, liberal spin does not change the facts, you lot sicken me with your defence of this horrible b**tard, she is a racist under whose watch black Americans have suffered, more black homeless now than since the depression in 29.

But yuck it up for the liberal candidate because you know we are the progessives etc etc, utter balderdash.

You say she is a racist tr**p but provide no evidence whatsoever to back that up.

How is she personally responsible for black homelessness?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2016, 01:45:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 08:05:39 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 28, 2016, 05:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
Great post. a vote for Trump would be another vote against their own interest.

A lot of white bluecollar GOP voters have Ulster Protestant roots. The community has a problem with demagogues and arseholes who call themselves leaders.

I don't know if I buy the whole "voting against your economic self interest" line

If you work, and are a middle wage earner many Democratic proposals or agenda items would be enough to put you in the poor house.

Could you please tell me which proposals and agenda items you are referring to?




http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/26/why-these-union-members-and-lifelong-democrats-are-voting-trump.html

That article doesn't support your case at all! All it details is one union family falling for Trumps shite, but quoting other union people who call it for what it is.

Both parties have been in favour of the various trade deals over the years. The GOP still overwhelmingly is! Its complete pie in the sky bullshit from Trump that he is somehow going to roll back globalization or suddenly start manufacturing everything in the US again. His own brands come from places like China FFS. Its like telling the people of Donegal that Fruit of the Loom are suddenly going to come and reopen their factories, years after fleeing for cheaper labour costs and fewer regulations abroad. Yeah, it sounds great in a campaign, but its utter shite and anyone who believes him is just a clueless idiot. As I've said before here, there are reasons places like Walmart can sell all their stuff fairly cheap. Shelves stocked with "Made in the USA" goods is not one of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2016, 01:54:01 AM
Quote from: muppet on September 28, 2016, 04:13:00 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html (http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html)

Where is your faux outrage now Stew?

But...but... Benghazi...Vince Foster...liberals...or something...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2016, 01:55:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

WTF are you talking about? She was elected to the Senate in 2000. She was not a politician before that. If she had influence on her husband as president, it must have been mostly for the better given how good things were in the 90s. Similarly, Arkansas was pretty content with them, given they reelected Bill numerous times.

What racist comments did she make about black men? The "super predators" thing? That wasn't about black men per se. That was about gang members in the drug trade who kill without empathy or remorse. How about you pull up some GOP pushback on that speech which doesn't involve talking points connected to this election?

It's like you have no original thoughts stew - it's all right wing talking points you're spouting here. And don't blame Lester Holt for Trump f**king up. How about his "tremendous" temperament and his complete lack of prep. He had plenty of opportunities to drive home his points, but when you fly by the seat of your pants...
In fairness she tried to reform healthcare in the early 90s and failed

Ok, but I doubt if that's one of the "failures" stew wants her "brought to task" for!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 29, 2016, 02:55:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2016, 01:45:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 08:05:39 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 28, 2016, 05:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
Great post. a vote for Trump would be another vote against their own interest.

A lot of white bluecollar GOP voters have Ulster Protestant roots. The community has a problem with demagogues and arseholes who call themselves leaders.

I don't know if I buy the whole "voting against your economic self interest" line

If you work, and are a middle wage earner many Democratic proposals or agenda items would be enough to put you in the poor house.

Could you please tell me which proposals and agenda items you are referring to?




http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/26/why-these-union-members-and-lifelong-democrats-are-voting-trump.html

That article doesn't support your case at all! All it details is one union family falling for Trumps shite, but quoting other union people who call it for what it is.

Both parties have been in favour of the various trade deals over the years. The GOP still overwhelmingly is! Its complete pie in the sky bullshit from Trump that he is somehow going to roll back globalization or suddenly start manufacturing everything in the US again. His own brands come from places like China FFS. Its like telling the people of Donegal that Fruit of the Loom are suddenly going to come and reopen their factories, years after fleeing for cheaper labour costs and fewer regulations abroad. Yeah, it sounds great in a campaign, but its utter shite and anyone who believes him is just a clueless idiot. As I've said before here, there are reasons places like Walmart can sell all their stuff fairly cheap. Shelves stocked with "Made in the USA" goods is not one of them.


http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/2016-ohio-trump-winning-working-class-dems-214064

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/07/22/the-democratic-partys-problem-with-blue-collar-whites-in-one-chart/

http://bernardgoldberg.com/obama-to-blue-collar-america-adios/


Working and middle class voters are fleeing the Democratic Party in droves. Stick your head in the sand if you don't want to believe it. Most blue collar and middle earning Dems I know don't give a flying fvck about transgender bathrooms, climate change, same sex marriage or Planned Parwnthood

They care about jobs, taxes, healthcare and education and feel that the elites of the Drmocratic party have sold them out

Many of these people supporting Trump are not traditional Republucan voters.....they are Reagan Democrats.



Don't take my word for it....here's Clinton loyalist and former cabinet member

http://robertreich.org/post/137631700920

"Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ardently pushed for free trade agreements, for example, without providing the millions of blue-collar workers who thereby lost their jobs any means of getting new ones that paid at least as well."


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on September 29, 2016, 06:10:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2016, 01:45:33 AM.
the people of Donegal that Fruit of the Loom are suddenly going to come and reopen their factories, years after fleeing for cheaper labour costs and fewer regulations abroad.

You lot a similar reaction to American's are having now

"I'd build a wall around old Donegal"

Donald Trump even got a mention in that too.... maybe yous inspired him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 29, 2016, 06:42:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 08:05:39 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 28, 2016, 05:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
Great post. a vote for Trump would be another vote against their own interest.

A lot of white bluecollar GOP voters have Ulster Protestant roots. The community has a problem with demagogues and arseholes who call themselves leaders.

I don't know if I buy the whole "voting against your economic self interest" line

If you work, and are a middle wage earner many Democratic proposals or agenda items would be enough to put you in the poor house.

Could you please tell me which proposals and agenda items you are referring to?




http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/26/why-these-union-members-and-lifelong-democrats-are-voting-trump.html

That really does not answer my question.
It is an article that just articulates that more pissed off people are planning to vote against their economic self interest.
Their rational for abandoning Unions and the Democratic Party,  is Trump and Pence will bring back manufacturing jobs.
Let's take a look at that and check it off against the Business and voting records of Trump and Pence.
Pence has never voted against a Trade Deal
Trump is a Property / Franchising Guy who gets his stuff manufactured by the lowest bidder. Mostly outside the US.
Evidenced by their track records to date neither of them have much passion for creating manufacturing jobs in the United States.
They have just empty slogans and promises about "Building a Wall" , "Make America Great"
The fact that people will vote for them is only testimony to their blind passion for revenge against the system.
They do not see that they are voting for the party that used and abused them ergo they are voting against their own self interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2016, 10:49:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 29, 2016, 02:55:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2016, 01:45:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 08:05:39 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 28, 2016, 05:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Hillary crushed the orange but it doesn't matter.
"The middle finger of the American electorate" wants to vent so badly they cannot process a rational thought. They just want somebody to show up in Washington and blow government up.
Consequences be damned.

Remember these people have been voting against their economic self interest for 30 years. They know they have been shafted and are determined to have their revenge. They support Trump because he is the one most likely to throw a hand grenade into the system that shafted them.
Hillary needs the support of rational Republicans to pull this one off.
I am praying but worried.
Great post. a vote for Trump would be another vote against their own interest.

A lot of white bluecollar GOP voters have Ulster Protestant roots. The community has a problem with demagogues and arseholes who call themselves leaders.

I don't know if I buy the whole "voting against your economic self interest" line

If you work, and are a middle wage earner many Democratic proposals or agenda items would be enough to put you in the poor house.

Could you please tell me which proposals and agenda items you are referring to?




http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/26/why-these-union-members-and-lifelong-democrats-are-voting-trump.html

That article doesn't support your case at all! All it details is one union family falling for Trumps shite, but quoting other union people who call it for what it is.

Both parties have been in favour of the various trade deals over the years. The GOP still overwhelmingly is! Its complete pie in the sky bullshit from Trump that he is somehow going to roll back globalization or suddenly start manufacturing everything in the US again. His own brands come from places like China FFS. Its like telling the people of Donegal that Fruit of the Loom are suddenly going to come and reopen their factories, years after fleeing for cheaper labour costs and fewer regulations abroad. Yeah, it sounds great in a campaign, but its utter shite and anyone who believes him is just a clueless idiot. As I've said before here, there are reasons places like Walmart can sell all their stuff fairly cheap. Shelves stocked with "Made in the USA" goods is not one of them.


http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/2016-ohio-trump-winning-working-class-dems-214064

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/07/22/the-democratic-partys-problem-with-blue-collar-whites-in-one-chart/

http://bernardgoldberg.com/obama-to-blue-collar-america-adios/


Working and middle class voters are fleeing the Democratic Party in droves. Stick your head in the sand if you don't want to believe it. Most blue collar and middle earning Dems I know don't give a flying fvck about transgender bathrooms, climate change, same sex marriage or Planned Parwnthood

They care about jobs, taxes, healthcare and education and feel that the elites of the Drmocratic party have sold them out

Many of these people supporting Trump are not traditional Republucan voters.....they are Reagan Democrats.



Don't take my word for it....here's Clinton loyalist and former cabinet member

http://robertreich.org/post/137631700920

"Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ardently pushed for free trade agreements, for example, without providing the millions of blue-collar workers who thereby lost their jobs any means of getting new ones that paid at least as well."

I'm not disputing that some of them are "fleeing" the Dems, whether for jobs/trade or down to Trump's rhetoric about immigrants, his strongman leanings and so on.

What I'm saying is that they're morons who have been asleep for decades if they think that Trump and, especially, the GOP, is going to do anything for them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 29, 2016, 01:53:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2016, 01:32:54 AM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2016, 03:31:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

WTF are you talking about? She was elected to the Senate in 2000. She was not a politician before that. If she had influence on her husband as president, it must have been mostly for the better given how good things were in the 90s. Similarly, Arkansas was pretty content with them, given they reelected Bill numerous times.

What racist comments did she make about black men? The "super predators" thing? That wasn't about black men per se. That was about gang members in the drug trade who kill without empathy or remorse. How about you pull up some GOP pushback on that speech which doesn't involve talking points connected to this election?

It's like you have no original thoughts stew - it's all right wing talking points you're spouting here. And don't blame Lester Holt for Trump f**king up. How about his "tremendous" temperament and his complete lack of prep. He had plenty of opportunities to drive home his points, but when you fly by the seat of your pants...

Your candidate is a racist tr**p, liberal spin does not change the facts, you lot sicken me with your defence of this horrible b**tard, she is a racist under whose watch black Americans have suffered, more black homeless now than since the depression in 29.

But yuck it up for the liberal candidate because you know we are the progessives etc etc, utter balderdash.

You say she is a racist tr**p but provide no evidence whatsoever to back that up.

How is she personally responsible for black homelessness?

They way she described young black men from the poor neighbourhoods, I will find the exact quote.

As for black homelessness, she is responsible because she and her party have made a lot of the poorest African Americans less well off, for example, even take since Obama came into power, more homeless blacks and more poverty in that community, in short, the democrats want to continue the illusion they give a damn about black America when all they care about is their vote, well that and to keep up the illusion that the are the party that are looking after the black population!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 29, 2016, 02:17:13 PM
She called young black serial offenders from the ghettos 'Super Predators'

She has a tendency to mimic black southern woman with their drawl and dialect and makes them sound like they are ignorant dolts!

Martin Luther King wasn't that great according to your hero in 2008!

Obama was in cahoots with a black 'slum lord' according to Killory in 2008.

There are more, far more, like for example the quote about it being 'black peoples time.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on September 29, 2016, 02:22:58 PM
Holy shit! She didn't! Did she? Jeeeezusss!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2016, 02:23:19 PM
Quote from: stew on September 29, 2016, 01:53:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2016, 01:32:54 AM
Quote from: stew on September 28, 2016, 03:31:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

WTF are you talking about? She was elected to the Senate in 2000. She was not a politician before that. If she had influence on her husband as president, it must have been mostly for the better given how good things were in the 90s. Similarly, Arkansas was pretty content with them, given they reelected Bill numerous times.

What racist comments did she make about black men? The "super predators" thing? That wasn't about black men per se. That was about gang members in the drug trade who kill without empathy or remorse. How about you pull up some GOP pushback on that speech which doesn't involve talking points connected to this election?

It's like you have no original thoughts stew - it's all right wing talking points you're spouting here. And don't blame Lester Holt for Trump f**king up. How about his "tremendous" temperament and his complete lack of prep. He had plenty of opportunities to drive home his points, but when you fly by the seat of your pants...

Your candidate is a racist tr**p, liberal spin does not change the facts, you lot sicken me with your defence of this horrible b**tard, she is a racist under whose watch black Americans have suffered, more black homeless now than since the depression in 29.

But yuck it up for the liberal candidate because you know we are the progessives etc etc, utter balderdash.

You say she is a racist tr**p but provide no evidence whatsoever to back that up.

How is she personally responsible for black homelessness?

They way she described young black men from the poor neighbourhoods, I will find the exact quote.

As for black homelessness, she is responsible because she and her party have made a lot of the poorest African Americans less well off, for example, even take since Obama came into power, more homeless blacks and more poverty in that community, in short, the democrats want to continue the illusion they give a damn about black America when all they care about is their vote, well that and to keep up the illusion that the are the party that are looking after the black population!

We will await the quote.

On the other stuff, all you are providing is a correlation between increasing black homelessness and Obama being in power, all the while completely ignoring the circumstances in which Obama took over. He didn't inherit a booming economy and cause the worst financial crisis in 80 years. That's what was handed him. And if the Democrats in general, and Hillary in particular, are just cynical racist opportunists, then why have black people, by a massive, massive, majority, voted for them for 50 years? They're not being swayed by some one-off fast talking demagogue courting a protest vote; this is half a century of loyalty.

But regardless, nothing you've posted to date in any way shape or form supports your accusations of racism against Hillary Clinton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 29, 2016, 02:28:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 28, 2016, 04:13:00 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html (http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html)

Where is your faux outrage now Stew?

Its Newsweek ffs!

If true the same should apply to Bush and ten some, given that Cheney is in the mix this is really damning if true, Bush should be in prison alongside Clinton and given a longer term.

You see muppet, these f**kers put the lives of Americans at risk, it left the country side open to security breaches and harm, it left operatives wide open to slaughter and I do not give a f**k what side of the political divide they come from.

Unlike yourself and many, many others on here I think that if ANYONE breaks the law of the land they should be held accountable, you liberals support the laws that suit your agenda, if that is true why are the looney left not screaming from the rafters?

Bush was a hateful git, Cheney as despicable as Clinton, all should be tried for war crimes, now is that the answer to your question muppet????????????????????????

Faux outrage my hole, it is disgusting if true and again if true he should have to go through the same ordeal that lying sc**bag you love went through and more!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2016, 02:32:03 PM
Quote from: stew on September 29, 2016, 02:17:13 PM
She called young black serial offenders from the ghettos 'Super Predators'

She has a tendency to mimic black southern woman with their drawl and dialect and makes them sound like they are ignorant dolts!

Martin Luther King wasn't that great according to your hero in 2008!

Obama was in cahoots with a black 'slum lord' according to Killory in 2008.

There are more, far more, like for example the quote about it being 'black peoples time.

"Super predators " - I've already addressed that in a previous post. She was talking about remorseless killers with no empathy connected to the drug trade. She was NOT labeling black men. Poor choice of words maybe. Go look up the actual speech. But the hypocrisy is breath taking when complaints about this come, 22 years later, from conservatives who routinely call black men thugs and have never uttered a word of disagreement with what she was saying in that speech.

As for the rest, post some details, not just vague allegations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 29, 2016, 02:37:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2016, 02:32:03 PM
Quote from: stew on September 29, 2016, 02:17:13 PM
She called young black serial offenders from the ghettos 'Super Predators'

She has a tendency to mimic black southern woman with their drawl and dialect and makes them sound like they are ignorant dolts!

Martin Luther King wasn't that great according to your hero in 2008!

Obama was in cahoots with a black 'slum lord' according to Killory in 2008.

There are more, far more, like for example the quote about it being 'black peoples time.

"Super predators " - I've already addressed that in a previous post. She was talking about remorseless killers with no empathy connected to the drug trade. She was NOT labeling black men. Poor choice of words maybe. Go look up the actual speech. But the hypocrisy is breath taking when complaints about this come, 22 years later, but conservatives who routinely call black men thugs and have never uttered a word of disagreement with what she was saying in that speech.

As for the rest, post some details, not just vague allegations.

I tried to copy and paste quotes but was unable to.

Google HC racist comments, do the same for Bubba )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 30, 2016, 01:09:08 AM
Donald's charity could land him in a small spot of bother, and the Cuba play isn't that smart either.

Just when I think Clinton foundation will be the October surprise

Neither of the pair of them know what to be at
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 30, 2016, 09:22:15 AM
Trump has attacked our Dinny. Something our media will not do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 01, 2016, 11:15:39 AM
How's Trump's temperament looking now? 3am tweets directing people to check out the sex tape of a former beauty queen!! How presidential!! The man just cannot help himself. Every perceived slight has to be hammered down. How the f**k will he cope with the criticism and scrutiny that will be coming his way if he wins? And this is a boy who doesn't even have an excuse that he'd had a few too many before he thoughtlessly launched into his latest tirade! He dismissed it as old, but Hillary's quip in the debate about not being to trust someone who can be baited with a tweet with the nuke codes still stands.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2016, 11:15:39 AM
How's Trump's temperament looking now? 3am tweets directing people to check out the sex tape of a former beauty queen!! How presidential!! The man just cannot help himself. Every perceived slight has to be hammered down. How the f**k will he cope with the criticism and scrutiny that will be coming his way if he wins? And this is a boy who doesn't even have an excuse that he'd had a few too many before he thoughtlessly launched into his latest tirade! He dismissed it as old, but Hillary's quip in the debate about not being to trust someone who can be baited with a tweet with the nuke codes still stands.
Alicia Machado is playing him line a violin. He is all emotion. He needs the Latino vote. She enrages him . He lashes out. Reminds me of bullfighting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 01, 2016, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2016, 11:15:39 AM
How's Trump's temperament looking now? 3am tweets directing people to check out the sex tape of a former beauty queen!! How presidential!! The man just cannot help himself. Every perceived slight has to be hammered down. How the f**k will he cope with the criticism and scrutiny that will be coming his way if he wins? And this is a boy who doesn't even have an excuse that he'd had a few too many before he thoughtlessly launched into his latest tirade! He dismissed it as old, but Hillary's quip in the debate about not being to trust someone who can be baited with a tweet with the nuke codes still stands.
Alicia Machado is playing him line a violin. He is all emotion. He needs the Latino vote. She enrages him . He lashes out. Reminds me of bullfighting.

If you look at who he's lashed out at he's not helping himself... The Mexican judge who cant be impartial towards him, the Muslim Khan family and now Latino Alicia Machado!!

Any wonder minorities are having none of it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 01, 2016, 04:03:04 PM
You're right, seafoid, it's bullshitfighting!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 01, 2016, 04:03:04 PM
You're right, seafoid, it's bullshitfighting!
He is a total bollocks
Apparently he won't release his taxes cos he doesn't pay any
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 08:40:03 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Poi5x0E2CM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 02, 2016, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 01, 2016, 04:03:04 PM
You're right, seafoid, it's bullshitfighting!
He is a total bollocks
Apparently he won't release his taxes cos he doesn't pay any

Have your ever seen two more morally bankrupt assholes run for the presidency than these two arsewipes?

America needs to radically change politics, term limits is a start but the country is in dire need of an option other than liberals and conservatives, a moderate party with level headed leaders would be nice, these two are useless, horrible human beings!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2016, 08:21:35 PM
Presidents already have term limits, Stew.

Hillary's odds of winning are heading back up to 70%. The more Donald talks the better her chances.  I wouldn't be surprised if he refused to complete all the debates. It wouldn't be the first time he didn't show up for one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 09:19:38 AM
Trump is so easy to wind up. She should just focus on that. Ask him why is your penis so small in the 3rd debate. Just for the LOLZ.  It is such a circus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on October 04, 2016, 10:49:35 AM
Quote from: stew on October 02, 2016, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 01, 2016, 04:03:04 PM
You're right, seafoid, it's bullshitfighting!
He is a total bollocks
Apparently he won't release his taxes cos he doesn't pay any

Have your ever seen two more morally bankrupt assholes run for the presidency than these two arsewipes?

America needs to radically change politics, term limits is a start but the country is in dire need of an option other than liberals and conservatives, a moderate party with level headed leaders would be nice, these two are useless, horrible human beings!

Not often I'd say this stew but you're bang on here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
Bill Clintons honest assessment of Obamacare.......don't say I didn't tell you-LOL

"You've got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half," he said Monday. "It's the craziest thing in the world."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-defends-obamacare-bill-clinton-calls-craziest/story?id=42564838&cid=abcn_fb
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 05, 2016, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

30 years ago Hilary was first lady of Arkansas. I'm not sure that position comes with the power to change America and the world?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 05, 2016, 09:12:07 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 05, 2016, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

30 years ago Hilary was first lady of Arkansas. I'm not sure that position comes with the power to change America and the world?

But ... but... Vince Foster, Benghazi, emails, blah blah blah!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 05, 2016, 12:38:32 PM
I almost felt bad for the two VP candidates last night.

Career politicians defending their running mates charities/ "foundations"

Both did their jobs admirably. Both with an eye on the big job. Both an improvement on the top of the platform names.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2016, 01:28:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 05, 2016, 12:38:32 PM
I almost felt bad for the two VP candidates last night.

Career politicians defending their running mates charities/ "foundations"

Both did their jobs admirably. Both with an eye on the big job. Both an improvement on the top of the platform names.
The 2 vps are so much better than the 2 sociopaths
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 05, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care

That's terrible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 05, 2016, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 05, 2016, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

30 years ago Hilary was first lady of Arkansas. I'm not sure that position comes with the power to change America and the world?

She cut her teeth there and she changed her own world, she was setting the foundation of what came later right there at home in the mansion.

She is corrupt, we all know it, she is a vile human being and again she should be in prison.

Bubba continues to throw Obama under the ,bus, yet the pres is out there canvassing for his wife, politics like football, is a funny old game!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2016, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care

That's terrible

It certainly is for "the people are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 05, 2016, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care

That's terrible

It certainly is for "the people are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world."

Maybe if great, brilliant people like Donald Trump paid some taxes, it wouldn't be such a burden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care

That's terrible

It certainly is for "the people are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world."

Maybe if great, brilliant people like Donald Trump paid some taxes, it wouldn't be such a burden.

I couldn't agree more, but I'd also ask the same of the following (who are either Democrats or Hillary supporters)

The Waltons (Walmart)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-12/how-wal-mart-s-waltons-maintain-their-billionaire-fortune-taxes

The Kennedys

https://www.atr.org/ted-kennedy-death-tax-loophole

"Forbes recently reviewed how the billion dollar Kennedy family actively avoids the death tax by their cunning use of various accounting gimmicks and family trusts."


John Kerry

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/25/exclusive-kerry-heinz-family-has-millions-invested-in-offshore-tax-havens/

"A DCNF investigation has confirmed that the former Massachusetts Democratic senator and his billionaire wife, using an elaborate set of Heinz family trusts, have invested "more than $1 million" each into 11 separate offshore accounts — mainly hedge funds in the Cayman Islands."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care

That's terrible

It certainly is for "the people are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world."

Maybe if great, brilliant people like Donald Trump paid some taxes, it wouldn't be such a burden.

I couldn't agree more, but I'd also ask the same of the following (who are either Democrats or Hillary supporters)

The Waltons (Walmart)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-12/how-wal-mart-s-waltons-maintain-their-billionaire-fortune-taxes

The Kennedys

https://www.atr.org/ted-kennedy-death-tax-loophole

"Forbes recently reviewed how the billion dollar Kennedy family actively avoids the death tax by their cunning use of various accounting gimmicks and family trusts."


John Kerry

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/25/exclusive-kerry-heinz-family-has-millions-invested-in-offshore-tax-havens/

"A DCNF investigation has confirmed that the former Massachusetts Democratic senator and his billionaire wife, using an elaborate set of Heinz family trusts, have invested "more than $1 million" each into 11 separate offshore accounts — mainly hedge funds in the Cayman Islands."

Whaddabout Trump though? Billionaire pays no income taxes in 18 years, and he is asking for your vote!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2016, 10:13:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care

That's terrible

It certainly is for "the people are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world."

Maybe if great, brilliant people like Donald Trump paid some taxes, it wouldn't be such a burden.

I couldn't agree more, but I'd also ask the same of the following (who are either Democrats or Hillary supporters)

The Waltons (Walmart)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-12/how-wal-mart-s-waltons-maintain-their-billionaire-fortune-taxes

The Kennedys

https://www.atr.org/ted-kennedy-death-tax-loophole

"Forbes recently reviewed how the billion dollar Kennedy family actively avoids the death tax by their cunning use of various accounting gimmicks and family trusts."


John Kerry

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/25/exclusive-kerry-heinz-family-has-millions-invested-in-offshore-tax-havens/

"A DCNF investigation has confirmed that the former Massachusetts Democratic senator and his billionaire wife, using an elaborate set of Heinz family trusts, have invested "more than $1 million" each into 11 separate offshore accounts — mainly hedge funds in the Cayman Islands."

Whaddabout Trump though? Billionaire pays no income taxes in 18 years, and he is asking for your vote!
Does that mean he made less than 1bn in total profit over 20 years?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:19:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2016, 10:13:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care

That's terrible

It certainly is for "the people are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world."

Maybe if great, brilliant people like Donald Trump paid some taxes, it wouldn't be such a burden.

I couldn't agree more, but I'd also ask the same of the following (who are either Democrats or Hillary supporters)

The Waltons (Walmart)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-12/how-wal-mart-s-waltons-maintain-their-billionaire-fortune-taxes

The Kennedys

https://www.atr.org/ted-kennedy-death-tax-loophole

"Forbes recently reviewed how the billion dollar Kennedy family actively avoids the death tax by their cunning use of various accounting gimmicks and family trusts."


John Kerry

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/25/exclusive-kerry-heinz-family-has-millions-invested-in-offshore-tax-havens/

"A DCNF investigation has confirmed that the former Massachusetts Democratic senator and his billionaire wife, using an elaborate set of Heinz family trusts, have invested "more than $1 million" each into 11 separate offshore accounts — mainly hedge funds in the Cayman Islands."

Whaddabout Trump though? Billionaire pays no income taxes in 18 years, and he is asking for your vote!
Does that mean he made less than 1bn in total profit over 20 years?

All I know is that whatever he did, he did it 'brilliantly'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TabClear on October 05, 2016, 10:20:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care

That's terrible

It certainly is for "the people are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world."

Maybe if great, brilliant people like Donald Trump paid some taxes, it wouldn't be such a burden.

I couldn't agree more, but I'd also ask the same of the following (who are either Democrats or Hillary supporters)

The Waltons (Walmart)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-12/how-wal-mart-s-waltons-maintain-their-billionaire-fortune-taxes

The Kennedys

https://www.atr.org/ted-kennedy-death-tax-loophole

"Forbes recently reviewed how the billion dollar Kennedy family actively avoids the death tax by their cunning use of various accounting gimmicks and family trusts."


John Kerry

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/25/exclusive-kerry-heinz-family-has-millions-invested-in-offshore-tax-havens/

"A DCNF investigation has confirmed that the former Massachusetts Democratic senator and his billionaire wife, using an elaborate set of Heinz family trusts, have invested "more than $1 million" each into 11 separate offshore accounts — mainly hedge funds in the Cayman Islands."

Whaddabout Trump though? Billionaire pays no income taxes in 18 years, and he is asking for your vote!

The tax thing I actually have sympathy for Trump on. From my reading of the article what he did wasnt even particularly creative.  He was entitled to set off losses against future income just like everyone else.  Okay the numbers are astronomical but he didn't write the tax code.  If I had shares in a company and the directors were voluntarily paying to much tax I wouldn't be long pulling my investment.

Unfortunately he is a complete moron and how he handled the PR and his arrogance around how he answered questions on it was incredible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:22:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 05, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2016, 11:52:06 PM
all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care

That's terrible

It certainly is for "the people are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world."

Maybe if great, brilliant people like Donald Trump paid some taxes, it wouldn't be such a burden.

I couldn't agree more, but I'd also ask the same of the following (who are either Democrats or Hillary supporters)

The Waltons (Walmart)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-12/how-wal-mart-s-waltons-maintain-their-billionaire-fortune-taxes

The Kennedys

https://www.atr.org/ted-kennedy-death-tax-loophole

"Forbes recently reviewed how the billion dollar Kennedy family actively avoids the death tax by their cunning use of various accounting gimmicks and family trusts."


John Kerry

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/25/exclusive-kerry-heinz-family-has-millions-invested-in-offshore-tax-havens/

"A DCNF investigation has confirmed that the former Massachusetts Democratic senator and his billionaire wife, using an elaborate set of Heinz family trusts, have invested "more than $1 million" each into 11 separate offshore accounts — mainly hedge funds in the Cayman Islands."

Whaddabout Trump though? Billionaire pays no income taxes in 18 years, and he is asking for your vote!

Im now voting for Jill Stein....Aleppo moment disqualified Johnson.

As much as I disagree with Trump not paying income taxes he did not break any laws and he pays plenty of other taxes that contribute to the taxpayer such as property tax

Meanwhile Hillary deleted 30000 emails that were under congressional subpoena, smashed 3 mobile electronic devices with a hammer, and had her homebrew server forensically wiped. Then her IT guy pleaded the fifth.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/02/fbi-docs-aide-destroyed-hillarys-old-phones-with-a-hammer/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:30:46 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/)

As for the emails: http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu (http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu)

Clinton 'lost' 0.1% of the number of emails that the Bush administration lost. Where is the faux outrage over that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:39:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:30:46 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/)

As for the emails: http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu (http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu)

Clinton 'lost' 0.1% of the number of emails that the Bush administration lost. Where is the faux outrage over that?

That was also disgraceful but the difference is that Bushs emails weren't intentionally deleted AFTER having being subpoenaed by congress, and they were not stored on a PERSONAL  server in his basement, that was then forensically SCRUBBED, and no devices of his were SMASHED with a hammer to further impede an inquiry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:47:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:39:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:30:46 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/)

As for the emails: http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu (http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu)

Clinton 'lost' 0.1% of the number of emails that the Bush administration lost. Where is the faux outrage over that?

That was also disgraceful but the difference is that Bushs emails weren't intentionally deleted AFTER having being subpoenaed by congress, and they were not stored on a PERSONAL  server in his basement, that was then forensically SCRUBBED, and no devices of his were SMASHED with a hammer to further impede an inquiry.

They were on a private domain and were on a private server. Then they were deleted.

1,000 times the number of Clinton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 05, 2016, 10:49:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:39:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:30:46 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/)

As for the emails: http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu (http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu)

Clinton 'lost' 0.1% of the number of emails that the Bush administration lost. Where is the faux outrage over that?

That was also disgraceful but the difference is that Bushs emails weren't intentionally deleted AFTER having being subpoenaed by congress, and they were not stored on a PERSONAL  server in his basement, that was then forensically SCRUBBED, and no devices of his were SMASHED with a hammer to further impede an inquiry.

People who are voting for trump are voting against the likes of bush as well as the democrats ,and a piece of advice for Hillary keep Timmy hidden again now for as long as possible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:50:40 PM
http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/web-video/missing-white-house-emails (http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/web-video/missing-white-house-emails)

...In 2007, when Congress asked the Bush administration for emails surrounding the firing of eights U.S. attorneys, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales revealed that many of the emails requested could not be produced because they were sent on a non-government email server.  The officials had used the private domain gwb43.com, a server run by the Republican National Committee. Two years later, it was revealed that potentially 22 million emails were deleted, which was considered by some to be a violation of the Presidential Records Act...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics..
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2016, 11:18:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:47:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:39:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:30:46 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/)

As for the emails: http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu (http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu)

Clinton 'lost' 0.1% of the number of emails that the Bush administration lost. Where is the faux outrage over that?

That was also disgraceful but the difference is that Bushs emails weren't intentionally deleted AFTER having being subpoenaed by congress, and they were not stored on a PERSONAL  server in his basement, that was then forensically SCRUBBED, and no devices of his were SMASHED with a hammer to further impede an inquiry.

They were on a private domain and were on a private server. Then they were deleted.

1,000 times the number of Clinton.

I stand corrected on the use of a private server, but the difference between the 2 cases is that Bushs emails were actually recovered because per the Obama Whitehouse they had been "mislabeled"  (which just Reinforces my point about Hillarys server being forensically scrubbed to avoid recovery).

From the Newsweek article you linked:

"Eventually, the Bush White House admitted it had lost 22 million emails, not 5 million. Then, in December 2009—well into Barack Obama's administration—the White House said it found 22 million emails, dated between 2003 and 2005, that it claimed had been mislabeled"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2016, 11:23:59 PM
I'm now even more confused.....were the missing emails ever recovered or is there another 22M still missing?  Either way, any candidate, Republican or Democrat who willfully destroys public records is unfit to hold office IMHO
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics..
Post by: muppet on October 05, 2016, 11:28:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 11:18:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:47:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 10:39:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 10:30:46 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/donald-trumps-former-accountant-says-billionaire-wasnt-brilliant/)

As for the emails: http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu (http://europe.newsweek.com/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373?rm=eu)

Clinton 'lost' 0.1% of the number of emails that the Bush administration lost. Where is the faux outrage over that?

That was also disgraceful but the difference is that Bushs emails weren't intentionally deleted AFTER having being subpoenaed by congress, and they were not stored on a PERSONAL  server in his basement, that was then forensically SCRUBBED, and no devices of his were SMASHED with a hammer to further impede an inquiry.

They were on a private domain and were on a private server. Then they were deleted.

1,000 times the number of Clinton.

I stand corrected on the use of a private server, but the difference between the 2 cases is that Bushs emails were actually recovered because per the Obama Whitehouse they had been "mislabeled"  (which just Reinforces my point about Hillarys server being forensically scrubbed to avoid recovery).

From the Newsweek article you linked:

"Eventually, the Bush White House admitted it had lost 22 million emails, not 5 million. Then, in December 2009—well into Barack Obama's administration—the White House said it found 22 million emails, dated between 2003 and 2005, that it claimed had been mislabeled"

The private server was still in use after 2005 and I thought that Rove deleted 22 million emails in 2007. Anyway, I think the point has been made that this is a pretty frivolous hypocritical 'scandal', invented by Republicans, who are the unquestioned experts in the exact same field themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2016, 11:34:14 PM
Wow...so you have no issue with someone who's running for President willfully deleting 30,000 emails that are under congressional subpoena, forensically wiping clean a personal server or directing an aide to smash 3 electronic devices with a hammer to further hinder the investigation.   Sounds like a lot of hard work if she's got nothing to hide

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 05, 2016, 11:43:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 11:34:14 PM
Wow...so you have no issue with someone who's running for President willfully deleting 30,000 emails that are under congressional subpoena, forensically wiping clean a personal server or directing an aide to smash 3 electronic devices with a hammer to further hinder the investigation.   Sounds like a lot of hard work if she's got nothing to hide

I didn't say I had no issue with it.

However, I find it completely insane that people in the US think their politicians are saints. These people decide which countries to bomb, which wars to start, which murdering regime to arm to the teeth and you think deleting emails is the issue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 12:28:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 11:43:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2016, 11:34:14 PM
Wow...so you have no issue with someone who's running for President willfully deleting 30,000 emails that are under congressional subpoena, forensically wiping clean a personal server or directing an aide to smash 3 electronic devices with a hammer to further hinder the investigation.   Sounds like a lot of hard work if she's got nothing to hide

I didn't say I had no issue with it.

However, I find it completely insane that people in the US think their politicians are saints. These people decide which countries to bomb, which wars to start, which murdering regime to arm to the teeth and you think deleting emails is the issue?
[/quot


The content of the emails is the issue, their deletion is the cover up......hopefully Wikileaks will be enlightening us in the not too distant future
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 12:46:23 AM
How could anything she did in her position, compare with starting a war, based on deliberate lies, which left hundreds of thousands of people dead?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 12:52:20 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 12:46:23 AM
How could anything she did in her position, compare with starting a war, based on deliberate lies, which left hundreds of thousands of people dead?

George W isn't in the ballot ....he was last on there in 2004....(and his place in history has been cemented as the worst president ever.  He would  never see the outside of a jail cell if I had my way)


But you do pose an interesting question....what's she hiding?

Why did she go to those lengths to cover it up?

AND SHE IS ON THE BALLOT
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 12:52:20 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 12:46:23 AM
How could anything she did in her position, compare with starting a war, based on deliberate lies, which left hundreds of thousands of people dead?

George W isn't in the ballot ....he was last on there in 2004....(and his place in history has been cemented as the worst president ever.  He would  never see the outside of a jail cell if I had my way)


But you do pose an interesting question....what's she hiding?

Why did she go to those lengths to cover it up?

AND SHE IS ON THE BALLOT

I never said she was hiding anything. But when the Republicans can invent a scam that leads to hundreds of thousands of dead people, including Americans, without sanction, I wouldn't be revealing anything to them either. Who knows what they would twist it into.

And there is a Republican on the ballot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:01:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 12:52:20 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 12:46:23 AM
How could anything she did in her position, compare with starting a war, based on deliberate lies, which left hundreds of thousands of people dead?

George W isn't in the ballot ....he was last on there in 2004....(and his place in history has been cemented as the worst president ever.  He would  never see the outside of a jail cell if I had my way)


But you do pose an interesting question....what's she hiding?

Why did she go to those lengths to cover it up?

AND SHE IS ON THE BALLOT

I never said she was hiding anything. But when the Republicans can invent a scam that leads to hundreds of thousands of dead people, including Americans, without sanction, I wouldn't be revealing anything to them either. Who knows what they would twist it into.

And there is a Republican on the ballot.

I'm sure all will be revealed.....Hillary is on the ballot and her "untrustworthy" rating is 67%.

Lol....when you are subpoenaed by congress and give deposition under oath "revealing" is not optional
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:09:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:01:34 AM
I'm sure all will be revealed.....Hillary is on the ballot and her "untrustworthy" rating is 67%.

Lol....when you are subpoenaed by congress and give deposition under oath "revealing" is not optional

Just below the number of Americans who thought Iraq was responsible for the 911 attacks.

You want to talk about untrustworthy......

(https://infogram.io/p/1bf9338e35a73e86c726e3def43b434d.png)

Source:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jun/29/fact-checking-2016-clinton-trump/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jun/29/fact-checking-2016-clinton-trump/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:13:21 AM
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-simply-stated-there-is-no-doubt-that-saddam-hussein-now-has-weapons-of-mass-destruction-dick-cheney-64-64-35.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 06, 2016, 01:18:58 AM
The 2 candidates are atrocious
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:26:53 AM
Keep beating the Iraq drum if you want but people simply don't care.

BTW......I'm not a Trump supporter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on October 06, 2016, 01:47:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 06, 2016, 01:18:58 AM
The 2 candidates are atrocious

Absolutely some difference between listening to them and listening to Vladimir Putin. Who is a proper statesman.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 06, 2016, 04:31:11 AM
In its long history, The Atlantic has endorsed only three presidential candidates, but today it had this to say:

Donald Trump . . . has no record of public service and no qualifications for public office. His affect is that of an infomercial huckster; he traffics in conspiracy theories and racist invective; he is appallingly sexist; he is erratic, secretive, and xenophobic; he expresses admiration for authoritarian rulers, and evinces authoritarian tendencies himself. He is easily goaded, a poor quality for someone seeking control of America's nuclear arsenal. He is an enemy of fact-based discourse; he is ignorant of, and indifferent to, the Constitution; he appears not to read.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 06, 2016, 05:48:40 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 06, 2016, 04:31:11 AM
In its long history, The Atlantic has endorsed only three presidential candidates, but today it had this to say:

Donald Trump . . . has no record of public service and no qualifications for public office. His affect is that of an infomercial huckster; he traffics in conspiracy theories and racist invective; he is appallingly sexist; he is erratic, secretive, and xenophobic; he expresses admiration for authoritarian rulers, and evinces authoritarian tendencies himself. He is easily goaded, a poor quality for someone seeking control of America's nuclear arsenal. He is an enemy of fact-based discourse; he is ignorant of, and indifferent to, the Constitution; he appears not to read.
but it is fascinating TV. The media love it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 06, 2016, 10:45:53 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 06, 2016, 04:31:11 AM
In its long history, The Atlantic has endorsed only three presidential candidates, but today it had this to say:

Donald Trump . . . has no record of public service and no qualifications for public office. His affect is that of an infomercial huckster; he traffics in conspiracy theories and racist invective; he is appallingly sexist; he is erratic, secretive, and xenophobic; he expresses admiration for authoritarian rulers, and evinces authoritarian tendencies himself. He is easily goaded, a poor quality for someone seeking control of America's nuclear arsenal. He is an enemy of fact-based discourse; he is ignorant of, and indifferent to, the Constitution; he appears not to read.

Their endorsement of Hillary was fairly lukewarm too, with her well documented problems. But, after Lincoln and LBJ, she is, as you say, only the third candidate they've endorsed. Shows you what a travesty Trump's candidacy is!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:26:53 AM
Keep beating the Iraq drum if you want but people simply don't care.

BTW......I'm not a Trump supporter.

It is a 2 horse race, if you try to take down one horse, you are aiding the other side. That side killed hundreds of thousands of people based on a lie the last time they won the race. This time, their horse is far, far worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:26:53 AM
Keep beating the Iraq drum if you want but people simply don't care.

BTW......I'm not a Trump supporter.

It is a 2 horse race, if you try to take down one horse, you are aiding the other side. That side killed hundreds of thousands of people based on a lie the last time they won the race. This time, their horse is far, far worse.


I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count, but if I did I'd vote for Hillary as. Much as I hate her.  She is a seriously corrupt and evil person
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:26:53 AM
Keep beating the Iraq drum if you want but people simply don't care.

BTW......I'm not a Trump supporter.

It is a 2 horse race, if you try to take down one horse, you are aiding the other side. That side killed hundreds of thousands of people based on a lie the last time they won the race. This time, their horse is far, far worse.


I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count, but if I did I'd vote for Hillary as. Much as I hate her.  She is a seriously corrupt and evil person

'Seriously corrupt and evil?'

Can you put this in context please? Are we talking Robert Mugabe or Idi Amin? Or worse?? Stalin maybe???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:26:53 AM
Keep beating the Iraq drum if you want but people simply don't care.

BTW......I'm not a Trump supporter.

It is a 2 horse race, if you try to take down one horse, you are aiding the other side. That side killed hundreds of thousands of people based on a lie the last time they won the race. This time, their horse is far, far worse.


I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count, but if I did I'd vote for Hillary as. Much as I hate her.  She is a seriously corrupt and evil person

'Seriously corrupt and evil?'

Can you put this in context please? Are we talking Robert Mugabe or Idi Amin? Or worse?? Stalin maybe???

Corrupt like Charlie or Bertie and evil kinda like how Labour supporters and Nationalists view Margaret Thatcher
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 06, 2016, 04:02:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?

I thought she was going to get pregnant out of wedlock.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 04:11:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

The VP debate as it should be doesn't really have much of a knock on to the real race. Good job it doesn't because from what I've seen Pence sounds like a fairly canny operator even if he is a conservative stuck in the 1800s.

Or maybe the bar is so ridiculously low at the minute someone not talking about tweets/beauty queens/the media could pass for a decent politician!

I still don't understand why Ryan didn't run I think he would have won it by a complete landslide!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?

No.....Clinton Foundation.

There was serious pay for play going on and the smoking gun is contained somewhere in the 30,000 deleted emails.

Benghazi was just the tool the Republicans used to suponea her emails (IMHO)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 06, 2016, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?

No.....Clinton Foundation.

There was serious pay for play going on and the smoking gun is contained somewhere in the 30,000 deleted emails.

Benghazi was just the tool the Republicans used to suponea her emails (IMHO)

What favours were granted?

Do you have a problem with Citizens United?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 05:32:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:26:53 AM
Keep beating the Iraq drum if you want but people simply don't care.

BTW......I'm not a Trump supporter.

It is a 2 horse race, if you try to take down one horse, you are aiding the other side. That side killed hundreds of thousands of people based on a lie the last time they won the race. This time, their horse is far, far worse.


I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count, but if I did I'd vote for Hillary as. Much as I hate her.  She is a seriously corrupt and evil person

'Seriously corrupt and evil?'

Can you put this in context please? Are we talking Robert Mugabe or Idi Amin? Or worse?? Stalin maybe???

Corrupt like Charlie or Bertie and evil kinda like how Labour supporters and Nationalists view Margaret Thatcher

I would see evil as the killing of hundreds of thousands of people. For that no Republican has ever been indicted.

For corrupt, follow the money from the above.

This time the Republicans want to put in a complete narcissist. We haven't seen anyone that crazy, in charge of the world's greatest power, probably since the last days of the Roman Empire. I would rather see Homer Simpson as POTUS, with Barney Gumble as VP, than a lunatic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 06, 2016, 06:32:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 05:32:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:26:53 AM
Keep beating the Iraq drum if you want but people simply don't care.

BTW......I'm not a Trump supporter.

It is a 2 horse race, if you try to take down one horse, you are aiding the other side. That side killed hundreds of thousands of people based on a lie the last time they won the race. This time, their horse is far, far worse.


I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count, but if I did I'd vote for Hillary as. Much as I hate her.  She is a seriously corrupt and evil person

'Seriously corrupt and evil?'

Can you put this in context please? Are we talking Robert Mugabe or Idi Amin? Or worse?? Stalin maybe???

Corrupt like Charlie or Bertie and evil kinda like how Labour supporters and Nationalists view Margaret Thatcher

I would see evil as the killing of hundreds of thousands of people. For that no Republican has ever been indicted.

For corrupt, follow the money from the above.

This time the Republicans want to put in a complete narcissist. We haven't seen anyone that crazy, in charge of the world's greatest power, probably since the last days of the Roman Empire. I would rather see Homer Simpson as POTUS, with Barney Gumble as VP, than a lunatic.
Henry 8 and Cromwell were for the birds. Ludwig of Bavaria was insane. So was Mao as was Stalin. Hitler wasn't really at equilibrium either
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 06, 2016, 06:32:33 PM
http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/new-hillary-ad-shows-trump-saying-all-the-things-mike-pence-claims-he-never-said-video/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?

No.....Clinton Foundation.

There was serious pay for play going on and the smoking gun is contained somewhere in the 30,000 deleted emails.

Benghazi was just the tool the Republicans used to suponea her emails (IMHO)

What favours were granted?

Do you have a problem with Citizens United?

All will be revealed in due course

I have a problem with any public official who accepts bribes or who personally benefits from peddling influence or favor
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 05:32:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:26:53 AM
Keep beating the Iraq drum if you want but people simply don't care.

BTW......I'm not a Trump supporter.

It is a 2 horse race, if you try to take down one horse, you are aiding the other side. That side killed hundreds of thousands of people based on a lie the last time they won the race. This time, their horse is far, far worse.


I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count, but if I did I'd vote for Hillary as. Much as I hate her.  She is a seriously corrupt and evil person

'Seriously corrupt and evil?'

Can you put this in context please? Are we talking Robert Mugabe or Idi Amin? Or worse?? Stalin maybe???

Corrupt like Charlie or Bertie and evil kinda like how Labour supporters and Nationalists view Margaret Thatcher

I would see evil as the killing of hundreds of thousands of people. For that no Republican has ever been indicted.

For corrupt, follow the money from the above.

This time the Republicans want to put in a complete narcissist. We haven't seen anyone that crazy, in charge of the world's greatest power, probably since the last days of the Roman Empire. I would rather see Homer Simpson as POTUS, with Barney Gumble as VP, than a lunatic.

Well if they weren't indicted they should be and I already stated that last night in a prior post

I'm not a Republican, I'm an independent who has conservative leanings

For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 06, 2016, 06:51:32 PM
Anyone who would highlight the "corrupt" nature of the Clinton foundation (currently providing 11 million HIV sufferers with life saving medicines as well as other projects) whilst ignoring, or equating it with, the misdeeds of the Trump Foundation (currently supporting the upkeep of two six foot portraits of Donald Trump and Tim Tebow's helmet in Trump Tower, whilst paying off elected officials in Florida by using donated funds, fundraising without a license in New York City, and which has not received one dime of money from its founder since 2008) has a seriously skewed moral compass.

There is a reason that the law recognises misdemeanours and felonies as different things. And Hillary has never even been charged with a misdemeanour. The Donald has fatally miscalculated the scrutiny the spotlight a presidential run brings. Whatever the result, the odds are far lower of Donald seeing the inside of a prison cell by this time next year. His foundation and Trump U aren't going away.

Seriously corrupt and evil? When compared to Trump? Or are you just going to ignore him, in the knowledge that any honest comparison between the two would have him topping the polls in those categories by a landslide.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 06, 2016, 06:54:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?

No.....Clinton Foundation.

There was serious pay for play going on and the smoking gun is contained somewhere in the 30,000 deleted emails.

Benghazi was just the tool the Republicans used to suponea her emails (IMHO)

What favours were granted?

Do you have a problem with Citizens United?

All will be revealed in due course

I have a problem with any public official who accepts bribes or who personally benefits from peddling influence or favor

So do you object to Citizens United or not?

Is unlimited funding of political campaigns by corporations and wealthy individuals a good thing?

What's the difference between the Clinton Foundation accepting donations and the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson bankrolling campaigns?

The Kochs ain't doing it for the good of their health!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:31:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 06, 2016, 06:32:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 05:32:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 01:26:53 AM
Keep beating the Iraq drum if you want but people simply don't care.

BTW......I'm not a Trump supporter.

It is a 2 horse race, if you try to take down one horse, you are aiding the other side. That side killed hundreds of thousands of people based on a lie the last time they won the race. This time, their horse is far, far worse.


I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't count, but if I did I'd vote for Hillary as. Much as I hate her.  She is a seriously corrupt and evil person

'Seriously corrupt and evil?'

Can you put this in context please? Are we talking Robert Mugabe or Idi Amin? Or worse?? Stalin maybe???

Corrupt like Charlie or Bertie and evil kinda like how Labour supporters and Nationalists view Margaret Thatcher

I would see evil as the killing of hundreds of thousands of people. For that no Republican has ever been indicted.

For corrupt, follow the money from the above.

This time the Republicans want to put in a complete narcissist. We haven't seen anyone that crazy, in charge of the world's greatest power, probably since the last days of the Roman Empire. I would rather see Homer Simpson as POTUS, with Barney Gumble as VP, than a lunatic.
Henry 8 and Cromwell were for the birds. Ludwig of Bavaria was insane. So was Mao as was Stalin. Hitler wasn't really at equilibrium either

None of them were in charge of a power as dominant as the USA is today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 06, 2016, 08:27:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

Two tramps running, I have never seen or heard more biased reporting on,my life in Ireland than,I have in this cycle.

If Clinton gets in America will buckle under debt and racial divide, she will devastate the military and policing bodies and the country will be attacked like never before by Muslim radical scum because she will flood the country with Muslims, some of which will do awful damage.

I am all for letting refugees in as long as they are properly vetted.

By the way, contestants at next year's world chess championships are going to be forced to wear a hijab, these c***ts expect other faiths to fawn to their rules while in the West they demand their laws to stand, f**k them!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 08:49:08 PM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 08:27:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

Two tramps running, I have never seen or heard more biased reporting on,my life in Ireland than,I have in this cycle.

If Clinton gets in America will buckle under debt and racial divide, she will devastate the military and policing bodies and the country will be attacked like never before by Muslim radical scum because she will flood the country with Muslims, some of which will do awful damage.

I am all for letting refugees in as long as they are properly vetted.

By the way, contestants at next year's world chess championships are going to be forced to wear a hijab, these c***ts expect other faiths to fawn to their rules while in the West they demand their laws to stand, f**k them!

Where has she said she's relaxing the vetting process to let more Muslins in I'd love to see that policy??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 06, 2016, 08:53:38 PM
What has Clinton got to do with "the racial divide"??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 06, 2016, 10:08:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense
The GOP was purged of moderates who could do deals across the aisle during the Tea Party years.
The result was this year's selection. Rubio, Cruz and Trumptrump. A miserable collection of extremists.
The party has lost its way

The Dems are iredeemably corrupt as well but still relatively coherent
I think there is no party for decent conservatives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

Nonsense!! Sure even died in the wool Republican media across America are endorsing her!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 10:57:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

Nonsense!! Sure even died in the wool Republican media across America are endorsing her!

Who said anything about endorsing her....I said the way they speak about her you'd swear they were talking about Mother Teresa...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

That's it. They are either all listening to the wrong people, or they are all stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 11:06:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

That's it. They are either all listening to the wrong people, or they are all stupid.


Anyone who thinks Hillary is a good person (my attempt at humour said a "reincarnation of Mother Teresa") is either misinformed or very stupid.....yes that would be an accurate assessment

That being said, she is a much better candidate than Trump and I wouldn't fear for world
Peace were she elected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 11:06:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

That's it. They are either all listening to the wrong people, or they are all stupid.


Anyone who thinks Hillary is a good person (my attempt at humour said a "reincarnation of Mother Teresa") is either misinformed or very stupid.....yes that would be an accurate assessment

We get it. Everyone should vote for Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 11:10:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 11:06:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

That's it. They are either all listening to the wrong people, or they are all stupid.


Anyone who thinks Hillary is a good person (my attempt at humour said a "reincarnation of Mother Teresa") is either misinformed or very stupid.....yes that would be an accurate assessment

We get it. Everyone should vote for Trump.

You can be a terrible candidate, but still be a heck of a lot better than an ever worse candidate. Hillary is the former, Trump is the latter and again as I said earlier in the thread she if I lived in a swing state I would vote for Hillary over Trump.......but she still sucks bigtime
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:11:36 PM
If Trump is really worse, why are 90% of your posts attacking Hillary then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2016, 11:13:45 PM
Because the Facebook feed from my Irish friends and family is jammed with pro Hillary propaganda and I am flabbergasted that people I regard as well informed and educated have no fvcking idea what a cvnt she actually is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:15:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 11:13:45 PM
Because the Facebook feed from my Irish friends and family is jammed with pro Hillary propaganda and I am flabbergasted that people I regard as well informed and educated have no fvcking idea what a cvnt she actually is

Is she as bad as Bill?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

Nonsense!! Sure even died in the wool Republican media across America are endorsing her!

What are you on and can I have some?

The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.

Congratulations laws,the slavery party is back for a third term, Jesus wept!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:40:14 PM
Fox News is right and everything else is wrong.

Everyone in Ireland is wrong.

Who else?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 06, 2016, 11:43:19 PM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

Nonsense!! Sure even died in the wool Republican media across America are endorsing her!

What are you on and can I have some?

The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.

Congratulations laws,the slavery party is back for a third term, Jesus wept!

did you not change your mind on the dasey kid? despite living down the road......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.

Trump is a woman, now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 07, 2016, 12:25:02 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

Nonsense!! Sure even died in the wool Republican media across America are endorsing her!

What are you on and can I have some?

The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.

Congratulations laws,the slavery party is back for a third term, Jesus wept!

Yes, the Democrats WERE the slavery/segregation party... until half a century ago.

The Republicans ARE the southern strategy party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 07, 2016, 02:27:47 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:15:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 11:13:45 PM
Because the Facebook feed from my Irish friends and family is jammed with pro Hillary propaganda and I am flabbergasted that people I regard as well informed and educated have no fvcking idea what a cvnt she actually is

Is she as bad as Bill?

2 sides of the same coin, but seemingly shes the brains behind the operation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 07, 2016, 02:40:30 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 06, 2016, 06:51:32 PM
Anyone who would highlight the "corrupt" nature of the Clinton foundation (currently providing 11 million HIV sufferers with life saving medicines as well as other projects) whilst ignoring, or equating it with, the misdeeds of the Trump Foundation (currently supporting the upkeep of two six foot portraits of Donald Trump and Tim Tebow's helmet in Trump Tower, whilst paying off elected officials in Florida by using donated funds, fundraising without a license in New York City, and which has not received one dime of money from its founder since 2008) has a seriously skewed moral compass.

There is a reason that the law recognises misdemeanours and felonies as different things. And Hillary has never even been charged with a misdemeanour. The Donald has fatally miscalculated the scrutiny the spotlight a presidential run brings. Whatever the result, the odds are far lower of Donald seeing the inside of a prison cell by this time next year. His foundation and Trump U aren't going away.

Seriously corrupt and evil? When compared to Trump? Or are you just going to ignore him, in the knowledge that any honest comparison between the two would have him topping the polls in those categories by a landslide.

Trump is worse...I have said that numerous times already and I will vote for neither, though if I lived in a swing state I would probably vote for Hillary to prevent Trump from getting in, even though I fvcking hate her.

We are currently living with the repercussions of electing one fvcking moron (W)....I cant even imagine what election another would do....I think it would finish the country...and Im not joking, Im deadly serious.

If there were open primaries Bernie would probably have taken Hillary down. he would be currently leading Trumo by about 20 points, and even though I disagree with Bernie more than I agree with him, I think he is a good person with good intentions.

Donald Trump has somehow managed to pull off  the biggest con job ever on the American people. 

Maybe they are as fvckin stupid as people actulayy think they are.

On the other hand a client of mine quoted Winston Churchill to 2 Hillary supporters and they had never even heard of him.  One was a graduate of Amherst College...a borderline Ivy League School, and oth other was a graduate of the University of Vermont...a top tier 4 year school

"If a man is not a socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 07, 2016, 02:51:55 AM
Yes, but what did Churchill mean by "conservative"?

I seriously doubt if he had the average modern GOP congressman or Republican base voter, never mind Trump, in mind!

I'm in my 40s now. With a young family. The GOP is a rabble. The Dems aren't great, but at least they have some element of common sense when it comes to social, environmental, scientific cultural and various other issues. The GOP doesn't offer anything that would appeal to me over Democrats. Maybe, in a local election in NYC, but on anything affecting national politics, I am not going to do anything to help empower their anti-intellectualism, conspiracy theorizing and general appeals to the basest instincts of their white, christian base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 07, 2016, 02:55:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 06:54:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?

No.....Clinton Foundation.

There was serious pay for play going on and the smoking gun is contained somewhere in the 30,000 deleted emails.

Benghazi was just the tool the Republicans used to suponea her emails (IMHO)

What favours were granted?

Do you have a problem with Citizens United?

All will be revealed in due course

I have a problem with any public official who accepts bribes or who personally benefits from peddling influence or favor

So do you object to Citizens United or not?

Is unlimited funding of political campaigns by corporations and wealthy individuals a good thing?

What's the difference between the Clinton Foundation accepting donations and the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson bankrolling campaigns?

The Kochs ain't doing it for the good of their health!

J70....youre way behind the time. Citizens United has benefited Democrats way more than Republicans


Dont take my word for it.....what about Mother Jones....you most likely couldnt find a more left leaning blog if you tried


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/how-dems-learned-love-super-pacs-citizens-united
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 07, 2016, 03:12:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2016, 02:55:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 06:54:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?

No.....Clinton Foundation.

There was serious pay for play going on and the smoking gun is contained somewhere in the 30,000 deleted emails.

Benghazi was just the tool the Republicans used to suponea her emails (IMHO)

What favours were granted?

Do you have a problem with Citizens United?

All will be revealed in due course

I have a problem with any public official who accepts bribes or who personally benefits from peddling influence or favor

So do you object to Citizens United or not?

Is unlimited funding of political campaigns by corporations and wealthy individuals a good thing?

What's the difference between the Clinton Foundation accepting donations and the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson bankrolling campaigns?

The Kochs ain't doing it for the good of their health!

J70....youre way behind the time. Citizens United has benefited Democrats way more than Republicans


Dont take my word for it.....what about Mother Jones....you most likely couldnt find a more left leaning blog if you tried


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/how-dems-learned-love-super-pacs-citizens-united

Yet, its the GOP who are almost all opposed to ending it. And the Dems would be idiots not to play by the rules that the GOP are. It would be like a soccer team going by pre-60s rules when subs weren't allowed while their opponents make full use of a seven man bench and three permitted substitutions.

Regardless, my point is that so many of these people who are crying crocodile tears about the Clinton Foundation are also the same people who believe that corporations and individuals should be free to donate as much as they want to superpacs. Yet, how the hell can a million dollar donation from anyone be classified as anything except pay for play? You think Hillary Clinton or Paul Ryan or whomever is not going to set aside some time for major donors and pick up the phone when they ring? That they're not going to hear them out on whatever their pet issue is and perhaps even have their vote slanted? Its pure hypocrisy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2016, 07:09:24 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.

That's what you people said about Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 07, 2016, 10:01:34 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

Nonsense!! Sure even died in the wool Republican media across America are endorsing her!

What are you on and can I have some?

The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.

Congratulations laws,the slavery party is back for a third term, Jesus wept!


Quote
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/clinton-trump-newspaper-endorsements
Newspaper Endorsements 2016 :

Newspaper                           2012 Endorsement      2016 Endorsement
New York Times                     Obama                    Clinton
Los Angeles Times             Obama                    Clinton
New York Daily News             Romney                    Clinton
Washington Post                     Obama                    Clinton
Chicago Tribune                     Obama                    Johnson
Houston Chronicle             Romney                    Clinton
Arizona Republic   Romney                                    Clinton
Dallas Morning News             Romney                    Clinton
San Francisco Chronicle             Obama                    Clinton
San Diego Union-Tribune     Romney                    Clinton
Sacramento Bee                     Obama                    Clinton
Baltimore Sun                     Obama                    Clinton
South Florida Sun-Sentinel      Romney                    Clinton
Cincinnati Enquirer            Romney                    Clinton
Detroit News                    Romney                    Johnson
Richmond Times-Dispatch    Romney                    Johnson
Akron Beacon Journal            Obama                    Clinton
Chicago Sun-Times            None                            Clinton
Charlotte Observer            Obama                    Clinton
Tampa Bay Times           Obama                    Clinton

Some papers with a history of endorsing Republicans have not only changed sides in this election, but have rebuked Trump with unusually strong language. Here is a sampling of what these conservative-leaning editorial boards have written about Trump:

The Cincinnati Enquirer, which had not endorsed a Democrat for president in nearly a century: "Trump is a clear and present danger to our country...Do we really want someone in charge of our military and nuclear codes who has an impulse control problem? The fact that so many top military and national security officials are not supporting Trump speaks volumes."

The Arizona Republic, which had never endorsed a Democrat for president since its founding in 1890: "Trump responds to criticism with the petulance of verbal spit wads. That's beneath our national dignity. When the president of the United States speaks, the world expects substance. Not a blistering tweet."

The Dallas Morning News, which had not endorsed a Democrat for president in more than 75 years: "He plays on fear—exploiting base instincts of xenophobia, racism and misogyny—to bring out the worst in all of us, rather than the best. His serial shifts on fundamental issues reveal an astounding absence of preparedness. And his improvisational insults and midnight tweets exhibit a dangerous lack of judgment and impulse control."

The San Diego Union-Tribune, which had not endorsed a Democrat for president in its 148-year history: "Terrible leaders can knock nations off course. Venezuela is falling apart because of the obstinance and delusions of Hugo Chávez and his successor. Argentina is finally coming out of the chaos created by Cristina Kirchner and several of her predecessors. Trump could be our Chávez, our Kirchner. We cannot take that risk."

USA Today, which had never endorsed a presidential candidate (and still stopped short of an actual endorsement of Clinton): "[R]esist the siren song of a dangerous demagogue. By all means vote, just not for Donald Trump."


I enjoyed your comment about Fox News being consistent and the rest bought. Ailes is now heavily involved in Trump's campaign and can anybody deny Hannity is in Trump's pocket? The next time Trump is on his show I think he might just pull his togs down and ride him to show conservatives how much they should vote for Trump!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 07, 2016, 10:23:12 AM
The Arizona Republic is endorsing Clinton? Holy Shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 07, 2016, 10:46:25 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2016, 07:09:24 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.

That's what you people said about Obama.
financially he has
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 07, 2016, 11:43:01 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 07, 2016, 10:01:34 AM

Quote
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/clinton-trump-newspaper-endorsements
Newspaper Endorsements 2016 :

Newspaper                           2012 Endorsement      2016 Endorsement
New York Times                     Obama                    Clinton
Los Angeles Times             Obama                    Clinton
New York Daily News             Romney                    Clinton
Washington Post                     Obama                    Clinton
Chicago Tribune                     Obama                    Johnson
Houston Chronicle             Romney                    Clinton
Arizona Republic   Romney                                    Clinton
Dallas Morning News             Romney                    Clinton
San Francisco Chronicle             Obama                    Clinton
San Diego Union-Tribune     Romney                    Clinton
Sacramento Bee                     Obama                    Clinton
Baltimore Sun                     Obama                    Clinton
South Florida Sun-Sentinel      Romney                    Clinton
Cincinnati Enquirer            Romney                    Clinton
Detroit News                    Romney                    Johnson
Richmond Times-Dispatch    Romney                    Johnson
Akron Beacon Journal            Obama                    Clinton
Chicago Sun-Times            None                            Clinton
Charlotte Observer            Obama                    Clinton
Tampa Bay Times           Obama                    Clinton

Some papers with a history of endorsing Republicans have not only changed sides in this election, but have rebuked Trump with unusually strong language. Here is a sampling of what these conservative-leaning editorial boards have written about Trump:

The Cincinnati Enquirer, which had not endorsed a Democrat for president in nearly a century: "Trump is a clear and present danger to our country...Do we really want someone in charge of our military and nuclear codes who has an impulse control problem? The fact that so many top military and national security officials are not supporting Trump speaks volumes."

The Arizona Republic, which had never endorsed a Democrat for president since its founding in 1890: "Trump responds to criticism with the petulance of verbal spit wads. That's beneath our national dignity. When the president of the United States speaks, the world expects substance. Not a blistering tweet."

The Dallas Morning News, which had not endorsed a Democrat for president in more than 75 years: "He plays on fear—exploiting base instincts of xenophobia, racism and misogyny—to bring out the worst in all of us, rather than the best. His serial shifts on fundamental issues reveal an astounding absence of preparedness. And his improvisational insults and midnight tweets exhibit a dangerous lack of judgment and impulse control."

The San Diego Union-Tribune, which had not endorsed a Democrat for president in its 148-year history: "Terrible leaders can knock nations off course. Venezuela is falling apart because of the obstinance and delusions of Hugo Chávez and his successor. Argentina is finally coming out of the chaos created by Cristina Kirchner and several of her predecessors. Trump could be our Chávez, our Kirchner. We cannot take that risk."

USA Today, which had never endorsed a presidential candidate (and still stopped short of an actual endorsement of Clinton): "[R]esist the siren song of a dangerous demagogue. By all means vote, just not for Donald Trump."


I enjoyed your comment about Fox News being consistent and the rest bought. Ailes is now heavily involved in Trump's campaign and can anybody deny Hannity is in Trump's pocket? The next time Trump is on his show I think he might just pull his togs down and ride him to show conservatives how much they should vote for Trump!!

Interesting to see Johnson getting so many endorsements. Would the Chicago Tribune be Republican leaning? I am assuming they only endorsed Obama as the local boy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 11:59:08 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.


Two of Fox's biggest stars are at each other's throats over Trump. Consistency?

You launched into a rant about Avery without watching the show then subsequently watched (or at least claimed to have watch) and came back with your mind changed about Dassey

Morals? You? Really?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 07, 2016, 12:29:01 PM
Dear God....

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37568235 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37568235)

Trump courts the terminally ill vote...

5 October 2016 Last updated at 21:15 BST
Speaking at a rally in Nevada, Donald Trump has urged the terminally ill to vote for him.
"I don't care how sick you are," the Republican nominee said.
"I don't care if you just came back from the doctor and he gave you the worst possible prognosis, meaning it's over. Doesn't matter. Hang out till November 8. Get out and vote."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 07, 2016, 01:36:58 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 06, 2016, 11:43:19 PM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

Nonsense!! Sure even died in the wool Republican media across America are endorsing her!

What are you on and can I have some?

The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.

Congratulations laws,the slavery party is back for a third term, Jesus wept!

did you not change your mind on the dasey kid? despite living down the road......

Nope, I think he deserved another trial and I think he either aided and abetted or knew what his uncle did but said nothing out of fear.

I also think a case could be made that he is mentally unfit to stand trial, the problem is that until the whole thing blows up to the point were the cops, some of them get held accountable for their actions the world will never know the whole truth.

I do feel sorry to a degree for Dassey, he, like the majority of that family lived in fear of the principal involved.

The tv documentary was very is sided, it had to be I suppose to make these two money, the result has been millions of people believing an injustice was done and that these two were innocent, I do not but that but I am appalled at the way the cops conducted themselves, in that regard alone there is enough collusion between cops for a retrial for Dassey, the uncle is as guilty as all get out, an evil twisted bastard who the cops helped shape when they stitched him,up for a crime he did not commit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 07, 2016, 02:00:18 PM
Quote from: stew on October 07, 2016, 01:36:58 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 06, 2016, 11:43:19 PM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 06, 2016, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
For some bizzare reason many people I speak to in Ireland think Hillary is the reincarnation of Mother Teresa and nothing could be further from the truth

Have you figured out why?

No, but if I were to guess I'd say it's because they get their news from very left of center sources.

I'd say some are also falling for the old "Republican bad/Democrat good" nonsense

Nonsense!! Sure even died in the wool Republican media across America are endorsing her!

What are you on and can I have some?

The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.

Congratulations laws,the slavery party is back for a third term, Jesus wept!

did you not change your mind on the dasey kid? despite living down the road......

Nope, I think he deserved another trial and I think he either aided and abetted or knew what his uncle did but said nothing out of fear.

I also think a case could be made that he is mentally unfit to stand trial, the problem is that until the whole thing blows up to the point were the cops, some of them get held accountable for their actions the world will never know the whole truth.

I do feel sorry to a degree for Dassey, he, like the majority of that family lived in fear of the principal involved.

The tv documentary was very is sided, it had to be I suppose to make these two money, the result has been millions of people believing an injustice was done and that these two were innocent, I do not but that but I am appalled at the way the cops conducted themselves, in that regard alone there is enough collusion between cops for a retrial for Dassey, the uncle is as guilty as all get out, an evil twisted b**tard who the cops helped shape when they stitched him,up for a crime he did not commit!

Stew, there was no suggestion of this, in any regard, by anyone.

The only people Dassey helped (and thus could be argued was intimidated by) were the cops, who drew the 'confession' from him. Ignore the production if you want, but it was cringeworthy watching the tapes of the interviews, where they put every answer into his mouth and called it a confession.

The tapes were (rightly) thrown out of the Avery trial and yet were the only basis for Dassey's conviction, even though there was no other evidence and no single witness, even Avery.

I am not certain about Avery, but I was and still am 110% certain that Dassey's conviction was a complete and very deliberate injustice. What motived the cops and prosecutor to do that to him? After watching that I wouldn't trust those cops, nor that County's justice department, with directing traffic.

If this was Birmingham 6 or Guildford 4 material, you would be up in arms Stew.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 07, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:40:14 PM
Fox News is right and everything else is wrong.

Everyone in Ireland is wrong.

Who else?

Your words no one else's!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 07, 2016, 03:44:34 PM
Quote from: stew on October 07, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:40:14 PM
Fox News is right and everything else is wrong.

Everyone in Ireland is wrong.

Who else?

Your words no one else's!

Your words, no one else's:

QuoteThe only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 07, 2016, 04:07:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2016, 03:12:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2016, 02:55:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 06:54:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?

No.....Clinton Foundation.

There was serious pay for play going on and the smoking gun is contained somewhere in the 30,000 deleted emails.

Benghazi was just the tool the Republicans used to suponea her emails (IMHO)

What favours were granted?

Do you have a problem with Citizens United?

All will be revealed in due course

I have a problem with any public official who accepts bribes or who personally benefits from peddling influence or favor

So do you object to Citizens United or not?

Is unlimited funding of political campaigns by corporations and wealthy individuals a good thing?

What's the difference between the Clinton Foundation accepting donations and the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson bankrolling campaigns?

The Kochs ain't doing it for the good of their health!

J70....youre way behind the time. Citizens United has benefited Democrats way more than Republicans


Dont take my word for it.....what about Mother Jones....you most likely couldnt find a more left leaning blog if you tried


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/how-dems-learned-love-super-pacs-citizens-united

Yet, its the GOP who are almost all opposed to ending it. And the Dems would be idiots not to play by the rules that the GOP are. It would be like a soccer team going by pre-60s rules when subs weren't allowed while their opponents make full use of a seven man bench and three permitted substitutions.

Regardless, my point is that so many of these people who are crying crocodile tears about the Clinton Foundation are also the same people who believe that corporations and individuals should be free to donate as much as they want to superpacs. Yet, how the hell can a million dollar donation from anyone be classified as anything except pay for play? You think Hillary Clinton or Paul Ryan or whomever is not going to set aside some time for major donors and pick up the phone when they ring? That they're not going to hear them out on whatever their pet issue is and perhaps even have their vote slanted? Its pure hypocrisy.

Jaysus you have yourself tied up in knots.  At this point I haven't a clue what you're on about

Citizens United (contrary to your implicit suggestion that it only benefits Republicans) benefits Democrats more than Republicans. ... Per Mother Jones-lol

Well the Clinton Foundation has been hacked ....so I'm not going to go into what the dogs on the street know.....let's wait for the actual information to be released and see if your false equivalency still holds water
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 07, 2016, 04:13:19 PM
Whitey, if your dreams come true and Clinton is sabotaged, you will really enjoy President Trump.

I hope you are keeping an eye on the Tories, who are using very dangerous language about foreigners these days. Remember these are foreigners who are legally in the UK. And they want them out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 07, 2016, 04:13:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2016, 04:07:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2016, 03:12:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2016, 02:55:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 06:54:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2016, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Pence's "win" in the veep debate didn't seem to do him much good. Hillary's odds of winning are now up to 78.3%. I could see it reaching the nearly 90% that she had after the convention.

I have a prediction...Hillary will win easily enough, but will have to resign before her first term is over due to scandal

Don't tell me ... Benghazi?

No.....Clinton Foundation.

There was serious pay for play going on and the smoking gun is contained somewhere in the 30,000 deleted emails.

Benghazi was just the tool the Republicans used to suponea her emails (IMHO)

What favours were granted?

Do you have a problem with Citizens United?

All will be revealed in due course

I have a problem with any public official who accepts bribes or who personally benefits from peddling influence or favor

So do you object to Citizens United or not?

Is unlimited funding of political campaigns by corporations and wealthy individuals a good thing?

What's the difference between the Clinton Foundation accepting donations and the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson bankrolling campaigns?

The Kochs ain't doing it for the good of their health!

J70....youre way behind the time. Citizens United has benefited Democrats way more than Republicans


Dont take my word for it.....what about Mother Jones....you most likely couldnt find a more left leaning blog if you tried


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/how-dems-learned-love-super-pacs-citizens-united

Yet, its the GOP who are almost all opposed to ending it. And the Dems would be idiots not to play by the rules that the GOP are. It would be like a soccer team going by pre-60s rules when subs weren't allowed while their opponents make full use of a seven man bench and three permitted substitutions.

Regardless, my point is that so many of these people who are crying crocodile tears about the Clinton Foundation are also the same people who believe that corporations and individuals should be free to donate as much as they want to superpacs. Yet, how the hell can a million dollar donation from anyone be classified as anything except pay for play? You think Hillary Clinton or Paul Ryan or whomever is not going to set aside some time for major donors and pick up the phone when they ring? That they're not going to hear them out on whatever their pet issue is and perhaps even have their vote slanted? Its pure hypocrisy.

Jaysus you have yourself tied up in knots.  At this point I haven't a clue what you're on about

Citizens United (contrary to your implicit suggestion that it only benefits Republicans) benefits Democrats more than Republicans. ... Per Mother Jones-lol

Well the Clinton Foundation has been hacked ....so I'm not going to go into what the dogs on the street know.....let's wait for the actual information to be released and see if your false equivalency still holds water

I never even hinted that it only benefits Republicans (I acknowledged that Dems would be idiots NOT to avail of it). I said that it's Republicans who are overwhelmingly in favour of it. Hillary is on record as pledging to appoint a Supreme Court justice who will repeal it.

Again, my point is, why would someone get their knickers in a twist over a Clinton Foundation donor being given access to Clinton or some lackey, and not feel the same about billionaires or corporations buying access and influence through PAC donations and retreats and so on.

So please explain how the equivalency is false?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 07, 2016, 04:27:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 11:59:08 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.


Two of Fox's biggest stars are at each other's throats over Trump. Consistency?

You launched into a rant about Avery without watching the show then subsequently watched (or at least claimed to have watch) and came back with your mind changed about Dassey

Morals? You? Really?


I did not have to watch the show, I knew some of these f**kers you arrogant tit!

I watched the news and read the interviews, I saw the police statements years and years before you had even heard the names Avery or Dassey, I have been on the property in at least ten occasions and I hahe had conversations with these people, you in your arrogance seem to think that the 4th show is the be all end all, you got your information from a biased show and your know more about the situation than people who lived it night and day for years.

You are the arrogant human being I have ever come across, I am glad we have never met because I want want to slap your smug face you absolute waste of space!

Now go away and quit annoying my head gallstoner!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 07, 2016, 04:28:52 PM
So why did you use Koch and Adelson as your example of those benefitting from People's United instead of say Koch and Soros, or Koch and Tom Steyer. 

When has the spouse of a sitting Republican Secretary of State solicited and accepted donations from foreign entities that then used that donation to request  (through his/her spouse) direct access to the Secretart of State and other high ranking US government officials

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/new-abedin-emails-reveal-hillary-clinton-state-department-gave-special-access-top-clinton-foundation-donors/

In more than a dozen email exchanges, Abedin provided expedited, direct access to Clinton for donors who had contributed from $25,000 to $10 million to the Clinton Foundation

Included among the Abedin-Band emails is an exchange revealing that when Crown Prince Salman of Bahrain requested a meeting with Secretary of State Clinton, he was forced to go through the Clinton Foundation for an appointment. Abedin advised Band that when she went through "normal channels" at State, Clinton declined to meet. After Band intervened, however, the meeting was set up within forty-eight hours. According to the Clinton Foundation website, in 2005, Salman committed to establishing the Crown Prince's International Scholarship Program (CPISP) for the Clinton Global Initiative. And by 2010, it had contributed $32 million to CGI


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 07, 2016, 04:31:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 07, 2016, 04:13:19 PM
Whitey, if your dreams come true and Clinton is sabotaged, you will really enjoy President Trump.

I hope you are keeping an eye on the Tories, who are using very dangerous language about foreigners these days. Remember these are foreigners who are legally in the UK. And they want them out.

The only one who is sabotaging her is herself.  They play the victimhood well,but the email hacks lay out the bare and ugly facts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 07, 2016, 04:35:51 PM
Yes, they seemingly had to contribute to get her attention.

And this differs from buying access through SuperPACs and the rest how, exactly?

The whole system is pay to play. Even Trump admits/boasts that he bought political favours all over the place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: stew on October 07, 2016, 04:27:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 11:59:08 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.


Two of Fox's biggest stars are at each other's throats over Trump. Consistency?

You launched into a rant about Avery without watching the show then subsequently watched (or at least claimed to have watch) and came back with your mind changed about Dassey

Morals? You? Really?


I did not have to watch the show, I knew some of these f**kers you arrogant tit!

I watched the news and read the interviews, I saw the police statements years and years before you had even heard the names Avery or Dassey, I have been on the property in at least ten occasions and I hahe had conversations with these people, you in your arrogance seem to think that the 4th show is the be all end all, you got your information from a biased show and your know more about the situation than people who lived it night and day for years.

You are the arrogant human being I have ever come across, I am glad we have never met because I want want to slap your smug face you absolute waste of space!

Now go away and quit annoying my head gallstoner!

But you did watch out, so what's your point?

Pity the Manitowoc cops didn't have a grudge against you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 07, 2016, 05:23:03 PM
Quote from: stew on October 07, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:40:14 PM
Fox News is right and everything else is wrong.

Everyone in Ireland is wrong.

Who else?

Your words no one else's!

I never yet said fox news was right and everyone in Ireland was wrong you clown, show me were I said that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 07, 2016, 05:54:41 PM
Quote from: stew on October 07, 2016, 05:23:03 PM
Quote from: stew on October 07, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2016, 11:40:14 PM
Fox News is right and everything else is wrong.

Everyone in Ireland is wrong.

Who else?

Your words no one else's!

I never yet said fox news was right and everyone in Ireland was wrong you clown, show me were I said that?

I never said you did. You might read a bit slower and next time, when you quote me, could you not edit out the most important part of the quote?

You said this about Fox:

"The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!"

It was Whitey who commented about everyone he talks to in Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 07, 2016, 09:20:20 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: stew on October 07, 2016, 04:27:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 11:59:08 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.


Two of Fox's biggest stars are at each other's throats over Trump. Consistency?

You launched into a rant about Avery without watching the show then subsequently watched (or at least claimed to have watch) and came back with your mind changed about Dassey

Morals? You? Really?


I did not have to watch the show, I knew some of these f**kers you arrogant tit!

I watched the news and read the interviews, I saw the police statements years and years before you had even heard the names Avery or Dassey, I have been on the property in at least ten occasions and I hahe had conversations with these people, you in your arrogance seem to think that the 4th show is the be all end all, you got your information from a biased show and your know more about the situation than people who lived it night and day for years.

You are the arrogant human being I have ever come across, I am glad we have never met because I want want to slap your smug face you absolute waste of space!

Now go away and quit annoying my head gallstoner!

But you did watch out, so what's your point?

Pity the Manitowoc cops didn't have a grudge against you.

I watched it against my better judgement because my friends stateside were appalled at it given that, You know, they knew more about the case than anyone on here will ever know.

Your line about wishing the Manty cops had a grudge against me speaks volumes, stay classy bladder, me, I wish you no harm at all at all.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 07, 2016, 10:11:07 PM
http://www.joe.ie/news/watch-donald-trump-caught-on-tape-making-sexually-aggressive-comments-about-women-offers-apology/563041

Lol....this may be the final nail in the coffin...but who knows
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 07, 2016, 11:03:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2016, 10:11:07 PM
http://www.joe.ie/news/watch-donald-trump-caught-on-tape-making-sexually-aggressive-comments-about-women-offers-apology/563041

Lol....this may be the final nail in the coffin...but who knows
As was said on CNN tonight you wouldn't want your father,brother or friend saying that nevermind someone who wants to become president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 07, 2016, 11:07:03 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 07, 2016, 11:03:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2016, 10:11:07 PM
http://www.joe.ie/news/watch-donald-trump-caught-on-tape-making-sexually-aggressive-comments-about-women-offers-apology/563041

Lol....this may be the final nail in the coffin...but who knows
As was said on CNN tonight you wouldn't want your father,brother or friend saying that nevermind someone who wants to become president.

Fox says it is ok.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 07, 2016, 11:39:38 PM
http://europe.newsweek.com/epileptogenic-pepe-video-507417?rm=eu

HOW DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS ATTACK JOURNALISTS
A Trump supporter sent Newsweek's Kurt Eichenwald an epileptogenic video that triggers seizures.
BY KURT EICHENWALD ON 10/7/16 AT 4:25 PM



Shortly after I wrote an article for Newsweek about how Donald Trump's business interests could undermine national security should he be elected president, one of his supporters assaulted me. He used the internet to do it.
Throughout my adulthood, I have never made a secret of the fact that I have epilepsy. It's better controlled now than it has been during other parts of my life, but not completely—my neurologist tells me I have intractable epilepsy, meaning treatment will never bring the condition fully under control. I know how people—particularly children—with seizures suffer when uninformed idiots suggest they should impose limits of their lives or quell their aspirations. So when Fox News blowhard and college dropout Sean Hannity practically drooled in delight this election season as he falsely proclaimed that Hillary Clinton suffered from seizures based on her acting goofy in a short video clip, it infuriated me. I knew how his message would be heard—people with seizures look ridiculous, they should be afraid of others laughing at them, they should listen to the voices telling them they can't do what they want (even be president). And so I raged at Hannity in the pages of Newsweek, on cable television news shows and on Twitter.

A couple of weeks later, after my article about how Trump's business interests would create a conflict of unprecedented proportions, I received a tweet from someone with the twitter handle "Mike's Deplorable AF." Like many Trump supporters, he has chosen to identify himself as deplorable to mock the label once used by Clinton to describe the racists, neo-Nazis, homophobes and like who have crawled out of the sewer to cheer for the Republican nominee. Mike, however, is indeed deplorable.


In his tweet, which has since been deleted, Mike made mention of my seizures and included a small video. It contained images of Pepe the Frog, a cartoon character that has been identified by the Anti-Defamation League as a hate symbol. I was carrying my iPad, looking at the still image on the video and, without thinking, touched the PLAY button.
The video was some sort of strobe light, with flashing circles and images of Pepe flying toward the screen. It's what's called epileptogenic—something that triggers seizures. Fortunately, since I was standing, I simply dropped my iPad to the ground the second I realized what Mike had done. It landed face down on the bathroom floor.
The deplorables are real. The deplorables are dangerous.

Because I have written critically about Trump, I have received innumerable death threats, sometimes just general invocations that I should die, sometimes more specific threats that I should be shot or "lynched," as one Trump fan wrote. I have been called "kike," "Jew" and "anti-American Zionist," even though I'm Episcopalian with a Jewish father (as if that makes a difference). I have received video cartoons that look like they are from Nazi Germany of hook-nosed men dressed in Jewish garb rubbing their hands greedily over piles of money. I have been told to go back where I came from, whatever that means. I have been called "fag," "pedo," and once—in an email that made no sense—"nigger-lover." One Trump fan mentioned he knew which schools my children attended, and correctly named them. Topping it off, some Trump fans have even gone after one of my sons online, although he knew enough to immediately block them.
My family has been through this before—it is sometimes a consequence of writing about controversial topics—but this is the first time we have discussed whether I should continue investigating an issue. All of them agreed I should stay on this story— since Trump won't release much information about himself, digging up everything that can be found before the election is important for the country. But why is this even a discussion? We do not live in a third-world nation where journalists who report unpleasant realities are in danger. While I believe that most of these threats—except for Mike's—are from internet blowhards, why does my family even have to wonder about this? And why am I convinced that, just by writing this article, Mike will get lots of new Twitter followers and praise from profoundly evil people?
I am far from the only journalist exposed to the bottom-feeders among Trump supporters who traffic in violence, threats, racism and anti-Semitism. In a tweet, Charles Blow, an African-American columnist for The New York Times who has been harshly critical of Trump both in the newspaper and on television, told me he is bombarded with racist fury through email. Katy Tur of NBC reported in an article in Marie Claire that she had to be escorted out of a Trump rally in December by Secret Service to protect her from raging Trump supporters who had sicced on her by their candidate. She was also the primary subject of a death threat two weeks later on Twitter.
"MAYBE A FEW JOURNALISTS DO NEED TO BE WHACKED," the tweet from someone with the handle GuyScott33 read. "MAYBE THEN THEYD STOP BEI[N]G BIASED HACKS. KILL EM ALL STARTING W/ KATY TUR."
There are more. According to The Daily Beast, Bethany Mandel, a conservative essayist who has written about her opposition to Trump, had been so violently attacked on social media that she felt compelled to purchase a gun for protection. Jeffrey Goldberg, national correspondent for The Atlantic, received an email telling him he would be sent to "a camp" when Trump wins. After she published an article in GQ about Melania Trump, Julia Ioffe, a Jewish journalist, received death threats by phone and email, and tweets showing vile images such as an anti-Semitic caricature of a Jewish man on his knees being shot in the back of the head; she filed a police report. Jonathan Weisman, deputy Washington editor of The New York Times, tweeted a link to a Washington Post opinion piece that was harshly critical of the Trump phenomenon. The vicious attacks on Weisman, who is Jewish, came quickly.
"Get used to it you f**king kike,'' tweeted one of the deplorables who goes by the handle "deplorable basket weave." "You people will be made to pay for the violence and fraud you've committed against us."
This is not an unavoidable consequence of a contentious political campaign. This is exceptional, a circumstance brought about by the gutter rants of Donald Trump and his refusal to condemn the racists, neo-Nazis and other deplorables who support him. That our country has reached this point, where the line between modern American political supporters and Hitler's brownshirts is becoming thinner by the day, is unacceptable. That GOP candidates have stood by and allowed this ugliness to flourish without aggressively condemning their candidate for what he has set loose, simply because they are seeking re-election or fear losing their jobs at the mid-terms, will stain the Republican Party for decades.
I write this knowing that it will spur more vile and violent online attacks on me. I have warned my children and my wife to be extra careful. And now that I have revealed how easy it is to inflict an injury on me, until this election is over, I will not be pushing PLAY on any unsolicited video I receive. It's simply too dangerous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 07, 2016, 11:54:47 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-women-comments_us_57f8016de4b0e655eab4148d

These Might Be Donald Trump's Most Disgusting Comments Yet About Women
"Grab them by the p***y."
10/07/2016 04:45 pm ET | Updated 1 hour ago


Paige Lavender Senior Politics Editor, The Huffington Post

MIKE SEGAR/REUTERS
GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump made lewd comments about women in an audio recording from 2005 that was published Friday.
An audio recording from 2005 features Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump making lewd comments about women during a conversation with then-"Access Hollywood" host Billy Bush. Excerpts of those remarks appear uncensored below.
On the recording ― a video in which Trump can be overheard talking with Bush while on the way to film on the set of a soap opera ― Trump claims he tried to have sex with a married woman and says he can grab women "by the pussy" because he is a celebrity. The Washington Post and NBC News published the recording on Friday.
X
"I did try and f**k her," Trump can be heard saying on the video in reference to an unnamed woman.
"I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping," Trump continues. "She wanted to get some furniture. I said, 'I'll show you where they have some nice furniture.'"
"I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there. And she was married," Trump says. "Then all of a sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look."
Later in the recording, Trump talks about actress Arianne Zucker, who escorted Trump and Bush to the set of "Days of Our Lives."
"I've gotta use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her," Trump said. "You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful ― I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait."
"And when you're a star they let you do it," Trump said. "You can do anything."
"Grab them by the pussy," Trump added. "You can do anything."
Trump brushed off the severity of the comments.
"This was locker room banter, a private conversation that took place many years ago," Trump said in a statement Friday. "[Former President] Bill Clinton has said far worse to me on the golf course ― not even close. I apologize if anyone was offended."

Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton reacted to the reports on Twitter:
Clinton's running mate, Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), told reporters in Las Vegas the audio of Trump's comments "makes me sick to my stomach."
The audio recording was released less than a week after The Associated Press published a report about Trump's behavior toward female cast and crew members on his NBC show, "The Apprentice." More than 20 people who worked on the show shared anecdotes with the AP about Trump commenting on women's bodies and requesting that female contestants wear shorter dresses, among other inappropriate moments.
Clinton criticized Trump's comments on women during the first presidential debate, citing former Miss Universe Alicia Machado, whom Trump had called "Miss Piggy" and "Miss Housekeeping." Trump responded later on Twitter, calling Machado "disgusting" and accusing her of having a sex tape.
For more on Trump's inappropriate comments on women, go here.
Editor's note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 08, 2016, 12:18:16 AM
Lol-Now it looks like Wikileaks have just released some of Hillarys speeches

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 08, 2016, 12:43:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 08, 2016, 12:18:16 AM
Lol-Now it looks like Wikileaks have just released some of Hillarys speeches

Two scuzbags and one of them about to be leader of the so called free world, these two are the most unworthy presidential candidates of all time, screw both of them but screw killory twice!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 08, 2016, 12:53:44 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: stew on October 07, 2016, 04:27:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 11:59:08 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.


Two of Fox's biggest stars are at each other's throats over Trump. Consistency?

You launched into a rant about Avery without watching the show then subsequently watched (or at least claimed to have watch) and came back with your mind changed about Dassey

Morals? You? Really?


I did not have to watch the show, I knew some of these f**kers you arrogant tit!

I watched the news and read the interviews, I saw the police statements years and years before you had even heard the names Avery or Dassey, I have been on the property in at least ten occasions and I hahe had conversations with these people, you in your arrogance seem to think that the 4th show is the be all end all, you got your information from a biased show and your know more about the situation than people who lived it night and day for years.

You are the arrogant human being I have ever come across, I am glad we have never met because I want want to slap your smug face you absolute waste of space!

Now go away and quit annoying my head gallstoner!

But you did watch out, so what's your point?

Pity the Manitowoc cops didn't have a grudge against you.

You would want a man you have never met subjected to the sort of abuse Brendan Dassey went through? You would want me to do 20 years in,prison for a crime I did not commit? And all because I believe you to be an arrogant dickhead?

I think it best we no longer post about each other, you are a liberal and if you can have that much hate in your heart you are everything I thought you were and so much more, you scare me bladdy, goodbye hater!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2016, 01:10:33 AM
Quote from: stew on October 08, 2016, 12:43:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 08, 2016, 12:18:16 AM
Lol-Now it looks like Wikileaks have just released some of Hillarys speeches

Two scuzbags and one of them about to be leader of the so called free world, these two are the most unworthy presidential candidates of all time, screw both of them but screw killory twice!
Maybe Hillary could be strangled with the guts of Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 08, 2016, 01:44:09 AM
But, seafoid, he's gutless (and spineless).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 08, 2016, 07:41:48 AM
Quote from: stew on October 08, 2016, 12:53:44 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: stew on October 07, 2016, 04:27:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2016, 11:59:08 AM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2016, 11:34:15 PM
The only conservative media in the states that is consistent is fox, you lot have the rest in your pocket!

The sheep in Ireland are a joy to behold, they love killing, ignore her many foibles and attack trump without giving thought to balance and objectivity, a bit like those on here who watch the Avery series and knew more than I did even though I lived down the road from the f**kers.

I am telling you when this tr**p gets elected she will set the USA back thirty years politically, morally and financially.


Two of Fox's biggest stars are at each other's throats over Trump. Consistency?

You launched into a rant about Avery without watching the show then subsequently watched (or at least claimed to have watch) and came back with your mind changed about Dassey

Morals? You? Really?


I did not have to watch the show, I knew some of these f**kers you arrogant tit!

I watched the news and read the interviews, I saw the police statements years and years before you had even heard the names Avery or Dassey, I have been on the property in at least ten occasions and I hahe had conversations with these people, you in your arrogance seem to think that the 4th show is the be all end all, you got your information from a biased show and your know more about the situation than people who lived it night and day for years.

You are the arrogant human being I have ever come across, I am glad we have never met because I want want to slap your smug face you absolute waste of space!

Now go away and quit annoying my head gallstoner!

But you did watch out, so what's your point?

Pity the Manitowoc cops didn't have a grudge against you.

You would want a man you have never met subjected to the sort of abuse Brendan Dassey went through? You would want me to do 20 years in,prison for a crime I did not commit? And all because I believe you to be an arrogant d**khead?

I think it best we no longer post about each other, you are a liberal and if you can have that much hate in your heart you are everything I thought you were and so much more, you scare me bladdy, goodbye hater!

The last Conservative President made up lies to start a war that has probably 500,000 people dead. You blame Hillary for Benghazi even though she was neither President, nor in charge of the military. Dubya was both.

If it is US military deaths you are genuinely annoyed about you would be voting Democrat no matter who the nominee is. Pretending Dubya was some rogue candidate and therefore not really representative of the GOP when he created that war might work as an argument, if someone like Trump wasn't the GOP nominee.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 08, 2016, 04:13:14 PM
Whoever held on to those tapes of trump until last night played a blinder. It is ahead of the hurricane on the news here. One day before the next debate/ town hall

Hilary's speeches aren't being mentioned Whitey

Republicans deserting in droves. Was at a local fundraiser this morning. Republican Christian heartland  and the discussion was the protest vote at the top of the ballot. Until now it has been crooked Hillary and Benghazi and the October surprise.

I have been wrong so many times about what will actually put trump off the cliff amongst the general Republican voter bit this is looking like it is going to come close if not be the final straw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on October 08, 2016, 04:59:46 PM
I think he was done long before this, saw something earlier that before the tape came out yesterday Clinton had 81% chance of winning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on October 08, 2016, 05:14:01 PM
His apology was disgusting, calling this only a distraction. Referencing Bill Clinton and the wahataboutery. Hannity and his 2 female apologists were disgusting were disgusting, even allowing for the gallon of salt one needs to watch Hannity. And yet the idiots continue to blindly support him. He could execute a veteran and they'd make an excuse for him and bring up Benghazi.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 08, 2016, 05:29:56 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 08, 2016, 04:13:14 PM
Whoever held on to those tapes of trump until last night played a blinder. It is ahead of the hurricane on the news here. One day before the next debate/ town hall

Hilary's speeches aren't being mentioned Whitey

Republicans deserting in droves. Was at a local fundraiser this morning. Republican Christian heartland  and the discussion was the protest vote at the top of the ballot. Until now it has been crooked Hillary and Benghazi and the October surprise.

I have been wrong so many times about what will actually put trump off the cliff amongst the general Republican voter bit this is looking like it is going to come close if not be the final straw

Game over

As I predicted yesterday Hillary will win and will have to resign.

Based on the Wikileaks, She may not even make it to inauguration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2016, 05:42:29 PM
The GOP is in bits. They have zero credibility.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on October 08, 2016, 06:13:13 PM
So who is going to vote for trump? "Ethnic minorities" ruled out and now women. The question now is how many racist white men are there in america.

Clinton is bad but that man is a moron and it is a shocking reflection on american society that ,sadly, there is still some potential he could become the most powerful man in the world. He should probably actually be locked up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2016, 06:17:45 PM
Trump should remove himself immediately and let pence run as presidential candidate and find someone to run with him maybe Carson
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on October 08, 2016, 06:20:36 PM
Deniro's video was brilliant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2016, 07:11:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2016, 06:13:13 PM
So who is going to vote for trump? "Ethnic minorities" ruled out and now women. The question now is how many racist white men are there in america.

Clinton is bad but that man is a moron and it is a shocking reflection on american society that ,sadly, there is still some potential he could become the most powerful man in the world. He should probably actually be locked up.
It is a dismal reflection of the fact that he was the only person in the political arena to address bluecollar dispossession under a corrupt system
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2016, 07:17:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2016, 06:20:36 PM
Deniro's video was brilliant.
https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2016/oct/08/robert-de-niro-id-like-to-punch-donald-trump-in-the-face-video
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 09, 2016, 10:39:05 AM
J. K. Galbraith:"The conventional wisdom"gives way not so much to new ideas as to "the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend".

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/millions-of-women-share-sexual-assault-stories-on-twitter-after-donald-trumps-lewd-remarks-35115419.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 09, 2016, 06:29:20 PM
The GOP has been tangoed by the orange man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhOeG-uTJxw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 09, 2016, 06:37:11 PM
https://safeshare.tv/x/kXjbXGyQDsE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on October 10, 2016, 01:25:21 AM
Anyone see the press conference with Trump and Bill Clintons women.Gone beyond a joke at this stage and Trump will come under more pressure to get out of the race
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2016, 01:53:27 AM
The largest group of undecided voters was women over 55 and the Dems came up with the pussy tape.
It's senior hurling
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2016, 02:07:53 AM
Quote from: maigheo on October 10, 2016, 01:25:21 AM
Anyone see the press conference with Trump and Bill Clintons women.Gone beyond a joke at this stage and Trump will come under more pressure to get out of the race
Last throw of a dice by a desperate man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2016, 02:20:16 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2016, 02:07:53 AM
Quote from: maigheo on October 10, 2016, 01:25:21 AM
Anyone see the press conference with Trump and Bill Clintons women.Gone beyond a joke at this stage and Trump will come under more pressure to get out of the race
Last throw of a dice by a desperate man.
He is doing okay in this debate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on October 10, 2016, 02:30:39 AM
Not any more
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2016, 02:34:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2016, 02:20:16 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2016, 02:07:53 AM
Quote from: maigheo on October 10, 2016, 01:25:21 AM
Anyone see the press conference with Trump and Bill Clintons women.Gone beyond a joke at this stage and Trump will come under more pressure to get out of the race
Last throw of a dice by a desperate man.
He is doing okay in this debate
Okay? All fart and no shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2016, 02:36:33 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2016, 02:34:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2016, 02:20:16 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2016, 02:07:53 AM
Quote from: maigheo on October 10, 2016, 01:25:21 AM
Anyone see the press conference with Trump and Bill Clintons women.Gone beyond a joke at this stage and Trump will come under more pressure to get out of the race
Last throw of a dice by a desperate man.
He is doing okay in this debate
Okay? All fart and no shit.
The bit where he said she would be in jail was very funny
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 10, 2016, 03:25:23 AM
I think trump is doing quite well in this session.

He is ignoring the format completely and doing his talking points. Very smart. Clinton and the hosts are getting very frustrated by him. He is ticking all the boxes.

Clinton is playing by the rules. Not sure that is a good plan...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 10, 2016, 03:42:19 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2016, 03:25:23 AM
I think trump is doing quite well in this session.

He is ignoring the format completely and doing his talking points. Very smart. Clinton and the hosts are getting very frustrated by him. He is ticking all the boxes.

Clinton is playing by the rules. Not sure that is a good plan...

Chris Matthews pretty much said it was a tie....Chuck Todd also said he was much improved

Either way....fvck both of them

This pretty well sums up the opinions of quite a few people I know

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/11/p-j-o-rourke-i-m-endorsing-hillary-clinton-the-devil-we-know.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 10, 2016, 04:50:12 AM
Wait for 48 hours and watch Chuck and Chris jump on the "Banana Republic" skin that Trump slipped on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2016, 07:04:28 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2016, 03:25:23 AM
I think trump is doing quite well in this session.

He is ignoring the format completely and doing his talking points. Very smart. Clinton and the hosts are getting very frustrated by him. He is ticking all the boxes.

Clinton is playing by the rules. Not sure that is a good plan...
It is like boxing. He landed a lot of good punches.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2016, 07:44:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2016, 03:42:19 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2016, 03:25:23 AM
I think trump is doing quite well in this session.

He is ignoring the format completely and doing his talking points. Very smart. Clinton and the hosts are getting very frustrated by him. He is ticking all the boxes.

Clinton is playing by the rules. Not sure that is a good plan...

Chris Matthews pretty much said it was a tie....Chuck Todd also said he was much improved

Either way....fvck both of them

This pretty well sums up the opinions of quite a few people I know

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/11/p-j-o-rourke-i-m-endorsing-hillary-clinton-the-devil-we-know.html
That is top notch
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 10, 2016, 11:24:52 AM
Are we going to witness Hillary's October Surprise or was the wikileaks thing it? 

Were the Clinton campaign keeping the Trump video to use whenever the wikileaks thing broke? I have yet to see anything particularly damning from the wikileaks hack and at this stage Trump looks a beaten docket. Why he hasn't stepped down is a mystery he's going to get creamed any self respecting politican would have been long gone but then has Trump got any self respect?

He'll make a killing on the back of this for years to come especially if he does go forward with the Trump news network!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 10, 2016, 11:31:53 AM
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2016, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 05, 2016, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: stew on September 27, 2016, 09:10:55 PM
Clinton has had thirty years to effectively change America and the world as a career politician, she has failed miserably at every turn, she has made racist comments about black men and she won last night because Trump wanted to not be seen attacking her.

The moderator was as usual lobbing her softballs and once again went soft on her, I have never seen an election with so much collusion in it, this notch needs to be brought to task for her many failures,Trump is going to unload at some point, can't wait!0

30 years ago Hilary was first lady of Arkansas. I'm not sure that position comes with the power to change America and the world?

She cut her teeth there and she changed her own world, she was setting the foundation of what came later right there at home in the mansion.

She is corrupt, we all know it, she is a vile human being and again she should be in prison.

Bubba continues to throw Obama under the ,bus, yet the pres is out there canvassing for his wife, politics like football, is a funny old game!

Still not sure how anything you said there pertains to your claim that she should have 'effectively changed America and the world' - even the US presidency rarely affords that kind of power.

If you can reply in English and not random, vitriolic word-salad it would perhaps help.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 10, 2016, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 10, 2016, 11:24:52 AM
Are we going to witness Hillary's October Surprise or was the wikileaks thing it? 

Were the Clinton campaign keeping the Trump video to use whenever the wikileaks thing broke? I have yet to see anything particularly damning from the wikileaks hack and at this stage Trump looks a beaten docket. Why he hasn't stepped down is a mystery he's going to get creamed any self respecting politican would have been long gone but then has Trump got any self respect?

He'll make a killing on the back of this for years to come especially if he does go forward with the Trump news network!

Seemingly theres a tape of Trump using the N word.......its a slow death at this point

Im not an election attorney, but from what Ive read there were serious violations of election law and they have only released 1% of what they have so far
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 10, 2016, 11:47:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2016, 03:25:23 AM
I think trump is doing quite well in this session.

He is ignoring the format completely and doing his talking points. Very smart. Clinton and the hosts are getting very frustrated by him. He is ticking all the boxes.

Clinton is playing by the rules. Not sure that is a good plan...

Excellent plan. She doesn't want to completely kill him and force a drop out and real opponent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 10, 2016, 01:28:49 PM
I am very wary of saying impossible in this campaign.
So let's just go with the Republican party does not have a mechanism to put another candidate on the ticket. As far as I remember there were also issues with state by state ballots and candidate registration for those ballots
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Longshanks on October 10, 2016, 01:50:51 PM
It annoys me when I see Trump refer to the E-mail leak/delete scandal, I'd like him to exactly say what happened cause I'm not even sure he knows now. He has just shouted it that much that people believe she did something very very wrong but no one actually knows the facts.

On a related note the show 'last week tonight with John Oliver' covers the american election well especially a few weeks ago talking about clinton and what is actually true and false and what she has actually done, covers other news stories very well too.

The last debate favoured Trump more because he went on the attack and did go with the traditional format which put clinton off kilter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 10, 2016, 02:04:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2016, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 10, 2016, 11:24:52 AM
Are we going to witness Hillary's October Surprise or was the wikileaks thing it? 

Were the Clinton campaign keeping the Trump video to use whenever the wikileaks thing broke? I have yet to see anything particularly damning from the wikileaks hack and at this stage Trump looks a beaten docket. Why he hasn't stepped down is a mystery he's going to get creamed any self respecting politican would have been long gone but then has Trump got any self respect?

He'll make a killing on the back of this for years to come especially if he does go forward with the Trump news network!

Seemingly theres a tape of Trump using the N word.......its a slow death at this point

Im not an election attorney, but from what Ive read there were serious violations of election law and they have only released 1% of what they have so far

The GOP nability  eed to accept this election is lost, they should immediately challenge Trump in court to get him removed from the race and they can given the vague rhetoric on their document that speaks to the removal of a candidate.

Pence should run as far from this arsewipe as possible immediately and he should be the new nominee, well either him or the Wisconsin boyo!

Chris Matthews had last night a draw, that means Trump wiped the floor with her, he had a rough start but settled in and he won fairly handily, not that it matters, he will never be President, I am hoping he does not get to run.

A Clinton presidency will harm the States, she is useless, an uncaring, unfeeling, vile woman who cares only for herself, most of you want her, I will remind you of that when the Muslims she lets into the country blow the f**k out of it.

If they cannot be vetted they should not get anywhere near the place, if they can, get as many of them in as you can and save lives!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 10, 2016, 02:13:18 PM
Who let you out of your straitjacket?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Longshanks on October 10, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
In regards to the GOP trying to remove Trump as the party nominee, they knew a year ago what they were getting into bed with and it should come as no shock!

Problem is what kind of chaos and civil unrest it could lead to if you remove a canditate like Trump with the kind of support he gets..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2016, 03:21:30 PM
Clinton said we are great because we are good. Absolute bollocks . Did they cheer in Falluja  or the US prison archipelago? She kept on going on about our children as if she cares.  She is a sociopath.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 10, 2016, 03:27:05 PM
Quote from: stew on October 10, 2016, 02:04:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2016, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 10, 2016, 11:24:52 AM
Are we going to witness Hillary's October Surprise or was the wikileaks thing it? 

Were the Clinton campaign keeping the Trump video to use whenever the wikileaks thing broke? I have yet to see anything particularly damning from the wikileaks hack and at this stage Trump looks a beaten docket. Why he hasn't stepped down is a mystery he's going to get creamed any self respecting politican would have been long gone but then has Trump got any self respect?

He'll make a killing on the back of this for years to come especially if he does go forward with the Trump news network!

Seemingly theres a tape of Trump using the N word.......its a slow death at this point

Im not an election attorney, but from what Ive read there were serious violations of election law and they have only released 1% of what they have so far

The GOP nability  eed to accept this election is lost, they should immediately challenge Trump in court to get him removed from the race and they can given the vague rhetoric on their document that speaks to the removal of a candidate.

Pence should run as far from this arsewipe as possible immediately and he should be the new nominee, well either him or the Wisconsin boyo!

Chris Matthews had last night a draw, that means Trump wiped the floor with her, he had a rough start but settled in and he won fairly handily, not that it matters, he will never be President, I am hoping he does not get to run.

A Clinton presidency will harm the States, she is useless, an uncaring, unfeeling, vile woman who cares only for herself, most of you want her, I will remind you of that when the Muslims she lets into the country blow the f**k out of it.

If they cannot be vetted they should not get anywhere near the place, if they can, get as many of them in as you can and save lives!

He won stew, if you count lies, ignorance, hypocrisy, angrily looming over her shoulder and threatening abuse of justice department power should he get it. And then the show with Bill's accusers...

Trump's bar is subterranean, but no one interested in anything resembling truth could put that "performance" down as anything but alarming and reminiscent of a strongman dictator.

That was a shocking, embarrassing, sad night/weekend for the US.

Four more weeks of this shit as well. And possibly only the beginning if Trump does pull it off. And I'm not just talking about policy here. We've all seen how ignorant and vindictive Trump is as a business man and candidate. WTF will happen with him as president??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 10, 2016, 03:32:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2016, 03:42:19 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2016, 03:25:23 AM
I think trump is doing quite well in this session.

He is ignoring the format completely and doing his talking points. Very smart. Clinton and the hosts are getting very frustrated by him. He is ticking all the boxes.

Clinton is playing by the rules. Not sure that is a good plan...

Chris Matthews pretty much said it was a tie....Chuck Todd also said he was much improved

Either way....fvck both of them

This pretty well sums up the opinions of quite a few people I know

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/11/p-j-o-rourke-i-m-endorsing-hillary-clinton-the-devil-we-know.html

Tears rolling down my face reading that! That is just brilliant! ;D

Sadness too that it does in fact reflect reality.

But PJ is a genius!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 10, 2016, 03:50:34 PM
Quote from: stew on October 10, 2016, 02:04:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2016, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 10, 2016, 11:24:52 AM
Are we going to witness Hillary's October Surprise or was the wikileaks thing it? 

Were the Clinton campaign keeping the Trump video to use whenever the wikileaks thing broke? I have yet to see anything particularly damning from the wikileaks hack and at this stage Trump looks a beaten docket. Why he hasn't stepped down is a mystery he's going to get creamed any self respecting politican would have been long gone but then has Trump got any self respect?

He'll make a killing on the back of this for years to come especially if he does go forward with the Trump news network!

Seemingly theres a tape of Trump using the N word.......its a slow death at this point

Im not an election attorney, but from what Ive read there were serious violations of election law and they have only released 1% of what they have so far

The GOP nability  eed to accept this election is lost, they should immediately challenge Trump in court to get him removed from the race and they can given the vague rhetoric on their document that speaks to the removal of a candidate.

Pence should run as far from this arsewipe as possible immediately and he should be the new nominee, well either him or the Wisconsin boyo!

Chris Matthews had last night a draw, that means Trump wiped the floor with her, he had a rough start but settled in and he won fairly handily, not that it matters, he will never be President, I am hoping he does not get to run.

A Clinton presidency will harm the States, she is useless, an uncaring, unfeeling, vile woman who cares only for herself, most of you want her, I will remind you of that when the Muslims she lets into the country blow the f**k out of it.

If they cannot be vetted they should not get anywhere near the place, if they can, get as many of them in as you can and save lives!

Again where is this information that she will let more Muslims into the country?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 10, 2016, 03:56:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 10, 2016, 03:32:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2016, 03:42:19 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2016, 03:25:23 AM
I think trump is doing quite well in this session.

He is ignoring the format completely and doing his talking points. Very smart. Clinton and the hosts are getting very frustrated by him. He is ticking all the boxes.

Clinton is playing by the rules. Not sure that is a good plan...

Chris Matthews pretty much said it was a tie....Chuck Todd also said he was much improved

Either way....fvck both of them

This pretty well sums up the opinions of quite a few people I know

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/11/p-j-o-rourke-i-m-endorsing-hillary-clinton-the-devil-we-know.html

Tears rolling down my face reading that! That is just brilliant! ;D

Sadness too that it does in fact reflect reality.

But PJ is a genius!

Very good.

He likes to talk 'bigly'.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 10, 2016, 06:00:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 10, 2016, 03:50:34 PM
Quote from: stew on October 10, 2016, 02:04:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2016, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 10, 2016, 11:24:52 AM
Are we going to witness Hillary's October Surprise or was the wikileaks thing it? 

Were the Clinton campaign keeping the Trump video to use whenever the wikileaks thing broke? I have yet to see anything particularly damning from the wikileaks hack and at this stage Trump looks a beaten docket. Why he hasn't stepped down is a mystery he's going to get creamed any self respecting politican would have been long gone but then has Trump got any self respect?

He'll make a killing on the back of this for years to come especially if he does go forward with the Trump news network!

Seemingly theres a tape of Trump using the N word.......its a slow death at this point

Im not an election attorney, but from what Ive read there were serious violations of election law and they have only released 1% of what they have so far

The GOP nability  eed to accept this election is lost, they should immediately challenge Trump in court to get him removed from the race and they can given the vague rhetoric on their document that speaks to the removal of a candidate.

Pence should run as far from this arsewipe as possible immediately and he should be the new nominee, well either him or the Wisconsin boyo!

Chris Matthews had last night a draw, that means Trump wiped the floor with her, he had a rough start but settled in and he won fairly handily, not that it matters, he will never be President, I am hoping he does not get to run.

A Clinton presidency will harm the States, she is useless, an uncaring, unfeeling, vile woman who cares only for herself, most of you want her, I will remind you of that when the Muslims she lets into the country blow the f**k out of it.

If they cannot be vetted they should not get anywhere near the place, if they can, get as many of them in as you can and save lives!

Again where is this information that she will let more Muslims into the country?

Here are some details of the process by which they will 'not be vetted'

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/11/20/infographic-screening-process-refugee-entry-united-states
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 10, 2016, 09:59:54 PM
Leaving everything else aside for a moment, which would be the better President for Ireland?

Given Trump's isolationist views and the Tories hardline Brexit view, I think he would be disastrous for us. Clinton has been good for Ireland in the main. We might need her next year when the EU and Britain find themselves at each other's throats and are not too bothered about Ireland north or south.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 11, 2016, 05:37:59 PM
I have never seen the like it it, these two hateful hoors are the absolute worst but after Trumps spake on women he is rightly damned.

He handed it to her, either way America is broken beyond repair, if she gets in the country will blow up in race riots and terrorism, if he does get in by some miracle he will further divide the people and the place will be wrecked.

Paul Ryan needs to step in and say f**k this, run himself or have Pence run and endorse him, lose gracefully by splitting the base and get ready to run in 2020 himself, he would destroy Clinton if he was running, these Clinton bastards lead charmed lives, Teflon lives ffs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 11, 2016, 05:50:58 PM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2016, 05:37:59 PM
I have never seen the like it it, these two hateful hoors are the absolute worst but after Trumps spake on women he is rightly damned.

He handed it to her, either way America is broken beyond repair, if she gets in the country will blow up in race riots and terrorism, if he does get in by some miracle he will further divide the people and the place will be wrecked.

Paul Ryan needs to step in and say f**k this, run himself or have Pence run and endorse him, lose gracefully by splitting the base and get ready to run in 2020 himself, he would destroy Clinton if he was running, these Clinton b**tards lead charmed lives, Teflon lives ffs!
I think you have been saying it for a good while, Stew. Clinton is dreadful. Trump is worse.
It isn't even tweedledum vs tweedledee. It is far more sinister.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 11, 2016, 07:43:56 PM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2016, 05:37:59 PM
I have never seen the like it it, these two hateful hoors are the absolute worst but after Trumps spake on women he is rightly damned.

He handed it to her, either way America is broken beyond repair, if she gets in the country will blow up in race riots and terrorism, if he does get in by some miracle he will further divide the people and the place will be wrecked.

Paul Ryan needs to step in and say f**k this, run himself or have Pence run and endorse him, lose gracefully by splitting the base and get ready to run in 2020 himself, he would destroy Clinton if he was running, these Clinton b**tards lead charmed lives, Teflon lives ffs!

I think you are correct on Ryan. I'm assuming he didn't run because he was afraid of Hillary and wanted to wait. Must be kicking himself!

Similarly, any Dems that abstained must also be kicking themselves. Had they got by Hillary, Trump would have been gone by Labor Day, instead of Hillary's issues allowing him to hang on until he (finally?) imploded.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 11, 2016, 11:13:51 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37612459 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37612459)

Trump goes to war with Ryan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2016, 12:16:42 AM
http://europe.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-sidney-blumenthal-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-benghazi-sputnik-508635?rm=eu (http://europe.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-sidney-blumenthal-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-benghazi-sputnik-508635?rm=eu)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/11/the-trump-putin-link-that-wasnt/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/11/the-trump-putin-link-that-wasnt/)

Why did Trump recite a false quote from a Russian Agency, during the debate, claiming it was a Clinton email?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 05:19:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2016, 11:13:51 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37612459 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37612459)

Trump goes to war with Ryan.
Ryan is useless. A disgrace to Tipperary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on October 12, 2016, 09:38:26 AM
It's hilarious how Stew keeps denying that he is a Trump supporter and that he doesn't want to see him win and that he wouldn't vote for him, but when you read his posts you just know that he is sitting at his laptop with legs, arms and fingers crossed that he wins.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 12, 2016, 10:02:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 12, 2016, 09:38:26 AM
It's hilarious how Stew keeps denying that he is a Trump supporter and that he doesn't want to see him win and that he wouldn't vote for him, but when you read his posts you just know that he is sitting at his laptop with legs, arms and fingers crossed that he wins.
I am not so sure about that, I think he knows that, to paraphrase PJ O'Rourke, Hilary is the second worst thing which could happen to America. In much of the Trump / Republican bashing on here that does not come across so, IMO, he is trying to remind us all the alternative is not a great alternative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 11:10:21 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 12, 2016, 09:38:26 AM
It's hilarious how Stew keeps denying that he is a Trump supporter and that he doesn't want to see him win and that he wouldn't vote for him, but when you read his posts you just know that he is sitting at his laptop with legs, arms and fingers crossed that he wins.
Stew is saying a pox on both their houses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on October 12, 2016, 11:12:00 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 12, 2016, 10:02:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 12, 2016, 09:38:26 AM
It's hilarious how Stew keeps denying that he is a Trump supporter and that he doesn't want to see him win and that he wouldn't vote for him, but when you read his posts you just know that he is sitting at his laptop with legs, arms and fingers crossed that he wins.
I am not so sure about that, I think he knows that, to paraphrase PJ O'Rourke, Hilary is the second worst thing which could happen to America. In much of the Trump / Republican bashing on here that does not come across so, IMO, he is trying to remind us all the alternative is not a great alternative.

All my family and friends in the states concur with this statement, both Dems and Reps.

And the masses should revolt against the political system. It is totally broken
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on October 12, 2016, 11:28:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 11:10:21 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 12, 2016, 09:38:26 AM
It's hilarious how Stew keeps denying that he is a Trump supporter and that he doesn't want to see him win and that he wouldn't vote for him, but when you read his posts you just know that he is sitting at his laptop with legs, arms and fingers crossed that he wins.
Stew is saying a pox on both their houses.

That is bollocks, the invective he uses against Clinton is off the scale compared to what he says about Trump, though he is careful to always put in the disclaimer that he doesn't like or wouldn't vote for Trump. I'm not going to start quoting him as the evidence of his visceral hatred is all over this thread in his multiple posts.

As indeed is his hatred of Obama which is clearly based on race.

Long on opinion and emotion, short on facts or decency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2016, 11:39:19 AM
I hate the clannish nature of US politics whereby the Clinton and the Bushes will have held power for all but 8 years since 1988 and are likely to resume holding power. Obama managed to break that stranglehold, when all and sundry expected Hillary to win the Democratic nomination and in fairness to him, he showed everyone how it could be done. However the Democrats forgot the lesson and the Republicans just spent 8 years lambasting him without learning a single thing, and lo and behold it all opens up again for the Clinton-Bush hegemony.

This is not at all healthy for a Government, however Trump is on a completely different level. I would even take Putin or Netanyahu over Trump and that is saying something. Trump's naked narcissism is about the most dangerous thing I've ever seen in politics in my lifetime. Thankfully he is clashing with the Republican leadership BEFORE the election, because if they stick together it could lead to a Trump win, in my opinion it would be the greatest threat to the Federal Republic in its history. The US would never be the same again, and neither by extension would the world.

It is incomprehensible to me that so many intelligent, educated people consider him worthy of being a leader of anything. Just think of political leaders who he reminds you of. Try to do so without proving Godwin's Law. How do people think he will react to The Senate/Congress not doing a deal with him? Or to a 'terrorist' attack whose origin later turns out to be not quite what everyone thought at first? Imagine country 'A' blows up some people and makes it look like country 'B' - would Trump run with the crowd or wait for confirmation? Why are Americans not terrified of his obvious man-love for Putin?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 12:16:42 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 12, 2016, 11:28:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 11:10:21 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 12, 2016, 09:38:26 AM
It's hilarious how Stew keeps denying that he is a Trump supporter and that he doesn't want to see him win and that he wouldn't vote for him, but when you read his posts you just know that he is sitting at his laptop with legs, arms and fingers crossed that he wins.
Stew is saying a pox on both their houses.

That is bollocks, the invective he uses against Clinton is off the scale compared to what he says about Trump, though he is careful to always put in the disclaimer that he doesn't like or wouldn't vote for Trump. I'm not going to start quoting him as the evidence of his visceral hatred is all over this thread in his multiple posts.

As indeed is his hatred of Obama which is clearly based on race.

Long on opinion and emotion, short on facts or decency.
The Dems are also responsible for deflation. The US is a clusterfuck. Obama is an empty suit.
I would agree with Stew. The political system is banjaxed. Hillary isn't normal either.
Some French TV station said the choice is between a dangerous idiot and a warmonger.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on October 12, 2016, 12:27:11 PM
Did the Republican not due dilligence on Trump?

Can you imagine a Fortune 500 company not doing some due dilligence on candidates who would be representing them in Public?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 12:36:38 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 12, 2016, 12:27:11 PM
Did the Republican not due dilligence on Trump?

Can you imagine a Fortune 500 company not doing some due dilligence on candidates who would be representing them in Public?
Trump came out of nowhere like Genghis Khan. The Republicans had 15 candidates who all took the money of a very rich Jew in return for loyalty on tax cuts for the rich. This is straight out of the protocols of the elders of zion. Trump figured out the blue collar voterse were pissed off and he destroyed the 15. The party is so corrupt it could not do anything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2016, 12:58:34 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 12, 2016, 12:27:11 PM
Did the Republican not due dilligence on Trump?

Can you imagine a Fortune 500 company not doing some due dilligence on candidates who would be representing them in Public?

It's not about due diligence. It's about a bunch of reactionary voters lashing out against a changing society and the powers that be, and latching on to an opportunist, shameless, narcissistic demagogue who appealed to their misguided and misdirected anger.

The GOP has an open primary. The Dems have superdelegates as well, whose purpose is to prevent the liberal counterpart of Trump winning the nomination. That allows the Dems to retain some control of the process, unlike the GOP. Unless they change their primary process, they will always be vulnerable to extremists who appeal to their base's worst instincts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2016, 01:05:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2016, 12:58:34 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 12, 2016, 12:27:11 PM
Did the Republican not due dilligence on Trump?

Can you imagine a Fortune 500 company not doing some due dilligence on candidates who would be representing them in Public?

It's not about due diligence. It's about a bunch of reactionary voters lashing out against a changing society and the powers that be, and latching on to an opportunist, shameless, narcissistic demagogue who appealed to their misguided and misdirected anger.

The GOP has an open primary. The Dems have superdelegates as well, whose purpose is to prevent the liberal counterpart of Trump winning the nomination. That allows the Dems to retain some control of the process, unlike the GOP. Unless they change their primary process, they will always be vulnerable to extremists who appeal to their base's worst instincts.

Not that I like Trump or anything, perish the thought, but did you just say that the Democrats only like democracy when it suits what the party executive want?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ashman on October 12, 2016, 01:06:10 PM
Surely the GOP will have to look very hard at selection process .  It is like the time we sent Dustin to the Eurovision . 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2016, 01:07:52 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 12, 2016, 01:06:10 PM
Surely the GOP will have to look very hard at selection process .  It is like the time we sent Dustin to the Eurovision .

Dustin would make a far better President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2016, 01:16:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2016, 01:05:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2016, 12:58:34 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 12, 2016, 12:27:11 PM
Did the Republican not due dilligence on Trump?

Can you imagine a Fortune 500 company not doing some due dilligence on candidates who would be representing them in Public?

It's not about due diligence. It's about a bunch of reactionary voters lashing out against a changing society and the powers that be, and latching on to an opportunist, shameless, narcissistic demagogue who appealed to their misguided and misdirected anger.

The GOP has an open primary. The Dems have superdelegates as well, whose purpose is to prevent the liberal counterpart of Trump winning the nomination. That allows the Dems to retain some control of the process, unlike the GOP. Unless they change their primary process, they will always be vulnerable to extremists who appeal to their base's worst instincts.


Not that I like Trump or anything, perish the thought, but did you just say that the Democrats only like democracy when it suits what the party executive want?



No, the vast majority of delegates are elected by the primary voters. But the 15% who are superdelegates and not beholden to the voters can row in behind the favoured candidate from the off and give them a big lead and thus, momentum. Doesn't stop someone like Obama from winning (Hillary had a good chunk in 2008 at the start), but it lessens the chances of someone with no hope of appealing across the board in a general election being selected. They tried shifting the power to primary and caucus voters in the 70s and got hammered by Nixon and Reagan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2016, 01:20:07 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2016, 01:05:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2016, 12:58:34 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 12, 2016, 12:27:11 PM
Did the Republican not due dilligence on Trump?

Can you imagine a Fortune 500 company not doing some due dilligence on candidates who would be representing them in Public?

It's not about due diligence. It's about a bunch of reactionary voters lashing out against a changing society and the powers that be, and latching on to an opportunist, shameless, narcissistic demagogue who appealed to their misguided and misdirected anger.

The GOP has an open primary. The Dems have superdelegates as well, whose purpose is to prevent the liberal counterpart of Trump winning the nomination. That allows the Dems to retain some control of the process, unlike the GOP. Unless they change their primary process, they will always be vulnerable to extremists who appeal to their base's worst instincts.

Not that I like Trump or anything, perish the thought, but did you just say that the Democrats only like democracy when it suits what the party executive want?

There has to be some form of restrictions on democracy, otherwise people would vote for no taxes or free houses for all, or no police, or trillions of police, etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2016, 02:27:06 PM
No, not necessarily. You vote for people you trust to run the country in the general direction you would like to see it headed.

A lot of people obviously would like the US to be run the way Donald Trump says. Why is the Democratic way of nominating any better? It stops stupid people getting what they want? I have to say I'm a little uneasy with that notion. One man, one vote. Unless it's a stupid vote, in which case we'll overrule you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2016, 02:44:42 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2016, 02:27:06 PM
No, not necessarily. You vote for people you trust to run the country in the general direction you would like to see it headed.

A lot of people obviously would like the US to be run the way Donald Trump says. Why is the Democratic way of nominating any better? It stops stupid people getting what they want? I have to say I'm a little uneasy with that notion. One man, one vote. Unless it's a stupid vote, in which case we'll overrule you.

The US has a severely restricted democracy. You needs hundreds of millions of dollars behind you you to even consider running for the highest office
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2016, 02:52:13 PM
This is true.

Anyway, this election is like being asked to choose (if you are American) between a kick in the balls, or a box in the gob.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 12, 2016, 02:57:11 PM
http://www.gregpalast.com/see-film-billionaires-ballot-bandits-dont-want-see/#more-12631 (http://www.gregpalast.com/see-film-billionaires-ballot-bandits-dont-want-see/#more-12631)
I read the original book in the early 2000's and nothing has changed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2016, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2016, 02:27:06 PM
No, not necessarily. You vote for people you trust to run the country in the general direction you would like to see it headed.

A lot of people obviously would like the US to be run the way Donald Trump says. Why is the Democratic way of nominating any better? It stops stupid people getting what they want? I have to say I'm a little uneasy with that notion. One man, one vote. Unless it's a stupid vote, in which case we'll overrule you.

Does the parliamentary system not have an even greater buffer between the voters and the leader? No one votes for prime minister or Taoiseach. The parties select him or her.

But, as I said, 85% of the Dems votes come from the ordinary voters. If they want someone, like they did with Obama, they will get him, superdelegates be damned.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2016, 03:12:02 PM
We elect people to do jobs, including to elect a Taoiseach. There is no similar role to President in Ireland really, given the powers etc that the President in the US has.

The closest election would be for Uachtaran, and if Johnny Joe Soap lunatic wants to be president, and gets enough votes, he will be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
Donald Trump = Tony Fearon  ;D

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37628704

Trump urges people to vote - on wrong date

At a rally in Panama City, Florida, Donald Trump urged people to register to vote in the upcoming presidential election.

The Republican candidate then told people to make sure they cast their vote on 28th November - the election is on the 8th.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 12, 2016, 02:57:11 PM
http://www.gregpalast.com/see-film-billionaires-ballot-bandits-dont-want-see/#more-12631 (http://www.gregpalast.com/see-film-billionaires-ballot-bandits-dont-want-see/#more-12631)
I read the original book in the early 2000's and nothing has changed
There are no more Yanks to dispossess. That is a huge difference.
The system can't go on another 10 years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWXazVhlyxQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ball Hopper on October 12, 2016, 05:20:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 12, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
Donald Trump = Tony Fearon  ;D

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37628704

Trump urges people to vote - on wrong date

At a rally in Panama City, Florida, Donald Trump urged people to register to vote in the upcoming presidential election.

The Republican candidate then told people to make sure they cast their vote on 28th November - the election is on the 8th.

And most people think the election occurs on the first Tuesday in November, which is not true.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 12, 2016, 02:57:11 PM
http://www.gregpalast.com/see-film-billionaires-ballot-bandits-dont-want-see/#more-12631 (http://www.gregpalast.com/see-film-billionaires-ballot-bandits-dont-want-see/#more-12631)
I read the original book in the early 2000's and nothing has changed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHXm76KVEBg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on October 12, 2016, 06:12:36 PM
Lets have some fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE8gffPz69Y
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 12, 2016, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2016, 11:39:19 AM
I hate the clannish nature of US politics whereby the Clinton and the Bushes will have held power for all but 8 years since 1988 and are likely to resume holding power. Obama managed to break that stranglehold, when all and sundry expected Hillary to win the Democratic nomination and in fairness to him, he showed everyone how it could be done. However the Democrats forgot the lesson and the Republicans just spent 8 years lambasting him without learning a single thing, and lo and behold it all opens up again for the Clinton-Bush hegemony.

This is not at all healthy for a Government, however Trump is on a completely different level. I would even take Putin or Netanyahu over Trump and that is saying something. Trump's naked narcissism is about the most dangerous thing I've ever seen in politics in my lifetime. Thankfully he is clashing with the Republican leadership BEFORE the election, because if they stick together it could lead to a Trump win, in my opinion it would be the greatest threat to the Federal Republic in its history. The US would never be the same again, and neither by extension would the world.

It is incomprehensible to me that so many intelligent, educated people consider him worthy of being a leader of anything. Just think of political leaders who he reminds you of. Try to do so without proving Godwin's Law. How do people think he will react to The Senate/Congress not doing a deal with him? Or to a 'terrorist' attack whose origin later turns out to be not quite what everyone thought at first? Imagine country 'A' blows up some people and makes it look like country 'B' - would Trump run with the crowd or wait for confirmation? Why are Americans not terrified of his obvious man-love for Putin?

Would love it if on becoming president your immediate family was disqualified from future running, sadly it would be a bit unconstitutional. I guess sorted finances out might help make the inherited running less likely.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 12, 2016, 06:36:10 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 12, 2016, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2016, 11:39:19 AM
I hate the clannish nature of US politics whereby the Clinton and the Bushes will have held power for all but 8 years since 1988 and are likely to resume holding power. Obama managed to break that stranglehold, when all and sundry expected Hillary to win the Democratic nomination and in fairness to him, he showed everyone how it could be done. However the Democrats forgot the lesson and the Republicans just spent 8 years lambasting him without learning a single thing, and lo and behold it all opens up again for the Clinton-Bush hegemony.

This is not at all healthy for a Government, however Trump is on a completely different level. I would even take Putin or Netanyahu over Trump and that is saying something. Trump's naked narcissism is about the most dangerous thing I've ever seen in politics in my lifetime. Thankfully he is clashing with the Republican leadership BEFORE the election, because if they stick together it could lead to a Trump win, in my opinion it would be the greatest threat to the Federal Republic in its history. The US would never be the same again, and neither by extension would the world.

It is incomprehensible to me that so many intelligent, educated people consider him worthy of being a leader of anything. Just think of political leaders who he reminds you of. Try to do so without proving Godwin's Law. How do people think he will react to The Senate/Congress not doing a deal with him? Or to a 'terrorist' attack whose origin later turns out to be not quite what everyone thought at first? Imagine country 'A' blows up some people and makes it look like country 'B' - would Trump run with the crowd or wait for confirmation? Why are Americans not terrified of his obvious man-love for Putin?

Would love it if on becoming president your immediate family was disqualified from future running, sadly it would be a bit unconstitutional. I guess sorted finances out might help make the inherited running less likely.
clannish politics goes on everywhere is there a cowen a td in Offaly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2016, 06:49:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2016, 06:36:10 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 12, 2016, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2016, 11:39:19 AM
I hate the clannish nature of US politics whereby the Clinton and the Bushes will have held power for all but 8 years since 1988 and are likely to resume holding power. Obama managed to break that stranglehold, when all and sundry expected Hillary to win the Democratic nomination and in fairness to him, he showed everyone how it could be done. However the Democrats forgot the lesson and the Republicans just spent 8 years lambasting him without learning a single thing, and lo and behold it all opens up again for the Clinton-Bush hegemony.

This is not at all healthy for a Government, however Trump is on a completely different level. I would even take Putin or Netanyahu over Trump and that is saying something. Trump's naked narcissism is about the most dangerous thing I've ever seen in politics in my lifetime. Thankfully he is clashing with the Republican leadership BEFORE the election, because if they stick together it could lead to a Trump win, in my opinion it would be the greatest threat to the Federal Republic in its history. The US would never be the same again, and neither by extension would the world.

It is incomprehensible to me that so many intelligent, educated people consider him worthy of being a leader of anything. Just think of political leaders who he reminds you of. Try to do so without proving Godwin's Law. How do people think he will react to The Senate/Congress not doing a deal with him? Or to a 'terrorist' attack whose origin later turns out to be not quite what everyone thought at first? Imagine country 'A' blows up some people and makes it look like country 'B' - would Trump run with the crowd or wait for confirmation? Why are Americans not terrified of his obvious man-love for Putin?

Would love it if on becoming president your immediate family was disqualified from future running, sadly it would be a bit unconstitutional. I guess sorted finances out might help make the inherited running less likely.
clannish politics goes on everywhere is there a cowen a td in Offaly

Has he or any of his family been the most powerful person on earth for 20 of the last 28 years?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2016, 07:11:37 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37584987 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37584987)

Conservative blog says Hurricane Matthew was a Climate Change conspiracy - blames the Hurricane data centre.

Where do they get people like this? I know we have the odd Wullie Frazer and Healy-Rae, but the States turns them out in their thousands.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2016, 07:35:59 PM
Who do you think the people supporting Trump are? He's the conspiracy theorist candidate!

Wonder how all the victims of the flooding in Georgia and the Carolinas feel about the supposed hype?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2016, 07:40:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2016, 07:35:59 PM
Who do you think the people supporting Trump are? He's the conspiracy theorist candidate!

Wonder how all the victims of the flooding in Georgia and the Carolinas feel about the supposed hype?

I think I found Stew's twin: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36992955 (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36992955)

In one video, addressing Clinton and her "diehard feminist Nazi fans", Longworth describes her "disgust" at having to listen to "that painful scratching noise that you like to call intelligence spew from your mouth like typical Clinton diarrhoea".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2016, 07:46:40 PM
Trump has been laying the groundwork for another conspiracy, this time that if he loses Pennsylvania, it will be down to voter fraud. And of course his supporters are buying into it, and claiming all the polls showing him slipping are wrong, because apparently rally size is such a strong predictor of voter turnout and enthusiasm. And it's only four years since the whole embarrassing "unskewed polls" fiasco!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 12, 2016, 09:35:55 PM
In addition, he's calling on his supporters to sign up to monitor certain polling stations to keep an eye on voter fraud.  Since voter fraud has been debunked time and time again, it is, of course, a call to intimidate minority/Democrat voters, an alarming development, in my view.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on October 13, 2016, 09:05:44 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37639839

Death by a thousand cuts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2016, 10:07:49 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 12, 2016, 09:35:55 PM
In addition, he's calling on his supporters to sign up to monitor certain polling stations to keep an eye on voter fraud.  Since voter fraud has been debunked time and time again, it is, of course, a call to intimidate minority/Democrat voters, an alarming development, in my view.

Well it's not as if you don't have prior form now is it? Your unions are as corrupt as f**k, you have run Chicago into the ground since Capone and it's fucked, Detroit? Hmm, greedy, corrupt unions laid waste to that dung heap, everything the liberals touch turns to shit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 13, 2016, 10:10:44 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2016, 07:40:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2016, 07:35:59 PM
Who do you think the people supporting Trump are? He's the conspiracy theorist candidate!

Wonder how all the victims of the flooding in Georgia and the Carolinas feel about the supposed hype?

I think I found Stew's twin: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36992955 (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36992955)

In one video, addressing Clinton and her "diehard feminist Nazi fans", Longworth describes her "disgust" at having to listen to "that painful scratching noise that you like to call intelligence spew from your mouth like typical Clinton diarrhoea".

I have no twin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 13, 2016, 11:41:55 AM
https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/786338233160392704 (https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/786338233160392704)

Pretty horrific stuff in this sworn statement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 13, 2016, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 13, 2016, 11:41:55 AM
https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/786338233160392704 (https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/786338233160392704)

Pretty horrific stuff in this sworn statement

BUT ... BILL .... HILLARY ...... LIBERAL MEDIA ............. ELITES ........... EMAILS ......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 13, 2016, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 13, 2016, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 13, 2016, 11:41:55 AM
https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/786338233160392704 (https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/786338233160392704)

Pretty horrific stuff in this sworn statement

BUT ... BILL .... HILLARY ...... LIBERAL MEDIA ............. ELITES ........... EMAILS ......

If you think Hillary hasn't disqualified herself by her actions you need to educate yourself a little better
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 13, 2016, 04:36:00 PM
I'm educated pretty well thank you very much
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 13, 2016, 06:10:20 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 13, 2016, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 13, 2016, 11:41:55 AM
https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/786338233160392704 (https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/786338233160392704)

Pretty horrific stuff in this sworn statement

BUT ... BILL .... HILLARY ...... LIBERAL MEDIA ............. ELITES ........... EMAILS ......

Give over, Stew.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 13, 2016, 07:29:24 PM
that's hurtful  :'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 13, 2016, 09:34:01 PM
Quote from: stew on October 13, 2016, 10:07:49 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 12, 2016, 09:35:55 PM
In addition, he's calling on his supporters to sign up to monitor certain polling stations to keep an eye on voter fraud.  Since voter fraud has been debunked time and time again, it is, of course, a call to intimidate minority/Democrat voters, an alarming development, in my view.

Well it's not as if you don't have prior form now is it? Your unions are as corrupt as f**k, you have run Chicago into the ground since Capone and it's fucked, Detroit? Hmm, greedy, corrupt unions laid waste to that dung heap, everything the liberals touch turns to shit!

That's doesn't seem accurate, what about California and New York? The red states have much higher poverty rates than the blue ones.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 14, 2016, 01:50:22 AM
Here's the definitive article for you stew . . .

https://thecontrarianblogger.com/2016/08/24/the-morons-case-for-hillary-clinton-because-some-of-you-really-are-that-stupid/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 14, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 13, 2016, 09:34:01 PM
That's doesn't seem accurate, what about California and New York? The red states have much higher poverty rates than the blue ones.

You are correct. Blue states like California are net contributors to the federal government, red states are generally takers.

As for Detroit, Stew would love to blame the unions but the lobbying power of the auto industry is by far a bigger factor. So much protectionism from international competition meant that Detroit could get away with churning out unreliable, low quality uncompetitive rubbish for years and still turn a profit. They thought it was better to buy a congressman than to fix their business model. But the right would rather blame the working man.

No wonder conservatism is in such a state. They're so far removed from reality that they've gone out in droves and voted for a serial sexual predator as their presidential candidate. Every time people like Stew throw around the word "liberal" like it's some sort of term of abuse I just get a good laugh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2016, 05:45:38 PM
Obama refusing to give credit to GOPers who have abandoned Trump in the wake of the Access Hollywood tape, rightfully accusing them of indulging, for political reasons and cowardice, years of paranoid conspiracy theories about his religion, birthplace, Jade Helm and all the rest.

"They stood by while this happened, and Donald Trump as he's prone to do, he didn't build the building himself — he just slapped his name on it and took credit for it,"

And while he is saying that, Trump is doubling down on far right paranoid lunacy:

"We've seen this first hand in the WikiLeaks documents, in which Hillary Clinton meets in secret with international banks to plot the destruction of U.S. sovereignty in order to enrich these global financial powers, her special interest friends and her donors. So true."

And, without a hint of self-awareness or irony, he had this to say about one of the women who came out yesterday accusing him of unwanted, physical advances:

"Take a look. You take a look. Look at her. Look at her words. You tell me what you think. I don't think so."

In yet another week where he is being hammered for his attitude towards women, he accuses his accuser of being too unattractive to merit his advances!





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 14, 2016, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 14, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 13, 2016, 09:34:01 PM
That's doesn't seem accurate, what about California and New York? The red states have much higher poverty rates than the blue ones.

You are correct. Blue states like California are net contributors to the federal government, red states are generally takers.

As for Detroit, Stew would love to blame the unions but the lobbying power of the auto industry is by far a bigger factor. So much protectionism from international competition meant that Detroit could get away with churning out unreliable, low quality uncompetitive rubbish for years and still turn a profit. They thought it was better to buy a congressman than to fix their business model. But the right would rather blame the working man.

No wonder conservatism is in such a state. They're so far removed from reality that they've gone out in droves and voted for a serial sexual predator as their presidential candidate. Every time people like Stew throw around the word "liberal" like it's some sort of term of abuse I just get a good laugh.

It's great that you still can laugh seeing as the reign of the worst president in the history of the USA is coming to an end. Donald or Hillary couldn't be any worse.

Oh I forgot, he did that sketch on the Jimmy Fallon show. Isn't he soooooooo funny..ha.ha.ha.
Nearly as bad as his dancing on the Ellen show. The "change" brigade can reflect on how they got suckered into a slogan with no substance.

and someone get the worst lady off the telly too. Cringeworthy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 14, 2016, 07:52:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2016, 05:45:38 PM
Obama refusing to give credit to GOPers who have abandoned Trump in the wake of the Access Hollywood tape, rightfully accusing them of indulging, for political reasons and cowardice, years of paranoid conspiracy theories about his religion, birthplace, Jade Helm and all the rest.

"They stood by while this happened, and Donald Trump as he's prone to do, he didn't build the building himself — he just slapped his name on it and took credit for it,"

And while he is saying that, Trump is doubling down on far right paranoid lunacy:

"We've seen this first hand in the WikiLeaks documents, in which Hillary Clinton meets in secret with international banks to plot the destruction of U.S. sovereignty in order to enrich these global financial powers, her special interest friends and her donors. So true."

And, without a hint of self-awareness or irony, he had this to say about one of the women who came out yesterday accusing him of unwanted, physical advances:

"Take a look. You take a look. Look at her. Look at her words. You tell me what you think. I don't think so."

In yet another week where he is being hammered for his attitude towards women, he accuses his accuser of being too unattractive to merit his advances!
The global conspiracy thing is an antisemitic trope   Look up the Adelson selection. He is Jewish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on October 14, 2016, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2016, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 14, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 13, 2016, 09:34:01 PM
That's doesn't seem accurate, what about California and New York? The red states have much higher poverty rates than the blue ones.

You are correct. Blue states like California are net contributors to the federal government, red states are generally takers.

As for Detroit, Stew would love to blame the unions but the lobbying power of the auto industry is by far a bigger factor. So much protectionism from international competition meant that Detroit could get away with churning out unreliable, low quality uncompetitive rubbish for years and still turn a profit. They thought it was better to buy a congressman than to fix their business model. But the right would rather blame the working man.

No wonder conservatism is in such a state. They're so far removed from reality that they've gone out in droves and voted for a serial sexual predator as their presidential candidate. Every time people like Stew throw around the word "liberal" like it's some sort of term of abuse I just get a good laugh.

It's great that you still can laugh seeing as the reign of the worst president in the history of the USA is coming to an end. Donald or Hillary couldn't be any worse.

Oh I forgot, he did that sketch on the Jimmy Fallon show. Isn't he soooooooo funny..ha.ha.ha.
Nearly as bad as his dancing on the Ellen show. The "change" brigade can reflect on how they got suckered into a slogan with no substance.

and someone get the worst lady off the telly too. Cringeworthy.

+1

More Govt regulation =corporations and small business spending less expanding= is a good recipe for growing an economy.  ::)

Oh forgot to mention Obamacare. Impact of which is only now being felt.
I was at a Dr. yesterday, single practitioner, they are almost all out of business as the HMO's have lost and are losing so much on Obamacare that they are continually cutting reimbursement rates. Poor guy just got a letter last week from one of them, saying that they were cutting what they are paying him per patient visit by 20%. He has no recourse.
Incidentally my guess is he is a Democrat, but he still says that it is doomed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
So tell us joe mamas, what regs need to go; what's your solution to the healthcare problems?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 14, 2016, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
So tell us joe mamas, what regs need to go; what's your solution to the healthcare problems?
I think it will have to collapse before any attempt at coherent reform happens
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2016, 10:19:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2016, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
So tell us joe mamas, what regs need to go; what's your solution to the healthcare problems?
I think it will have to collapse before any attempt at coherent reform happens

What will have to collapse? Healthcare system?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 14, 2016, 11:22:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

yes you are correct, only the rich should have healthcare  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:28:08 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 14, 2016, 11:22:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

yes you are correct, only the rich should have healthcare  ::)
i don't ask the rich to pay for my health care
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 14, 2016, 11:28:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

Citizen should look for a better price, I pay $122/month.
I resent all the middle man (insurance companies) waste in the healthcare system - what somerhing like 18% of GDP? I don't resent the small fraction of a percent to stop people having babies in a ditch somewhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Zulu on October 14, 2016, 11:36:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

The one thing all people living in a rich western democracy should be guaranteed is free or very affordable health care. I don't mind paying a bit more tax so that every child in the country can get a reasonable level of medical care should they require it. The American view of health care is bonkers in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 14, 2016, 11:37:52 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 14, 2016, 11:28:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

Citizen should look for a better price, I pay $122/month.
I resent all the middle man (insurance companies) waste in the healthcare system - what somerhing like 18% of GDP? I don't resent the small fraction of a percent to stop people having babies in a ditch somewhere.

on top of the other taxes you need to pay to keep it all going.
There are only so many welfare cases you can subsidise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2016, 12:41:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

Any evidence/statistics to support your point/claim?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2016, 12:45:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 12:41:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

Any evidence/statistics to support your point/claim?
i work in the construction industry and I see it and hear it from guys I know are illegal every day and I know what my own bill is monthly ,anything else chief
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 15, 2016, 12:56:25 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2016, 11:37:52 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 14, 2016, 11:28:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

Citizen should look for a better price, I pay $122/month.
I resent all the middle man (insurance companies) waste in the healthcare system - what somerhing like 18% of GDP? I don't resent the small fraction of a percent to stop people having babies in a ditch somewhere.

on top of the other taxes you need to pay to keep it all going.
There are only so many welfare cases you can subsidise.

I checked the GDP %

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS?year_high_desc=true

17.1% in the USA. Compare to the like of Germany, Sweden and Switzerland at 11%

Now admittedly I've not lived in any of those particular European countries but I'm willing to bet the healthcare is pretty damn good.
that 6% gap is going to pay hospital CEOs and insurance exec's huge salaries - the system is the opposite of efficient.
So the welfare cases for me is a cop out - I'm more mad at the massive wastage built in to feed fat cats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2016, 01:22:54 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2016, 12:45:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 12:41:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

Any evidence/statistics to support your point/claim?
i work in the construction industry and I see it and hear it from guys I know are illegal every day and I know what my own bill is monthly ,anything else chief

So you know a lad and you heard a story, therefore the whole system is corrupt/fucked and tilted in favour of illegal immigrants.

Right you are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2016, 01:45:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 01:22:54 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2016, 12:45:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 12:41:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

Any evidence/statistics to support your point/claim?
i work in the construction industry and I see it and hear it from guys I know are illegal every day and I know what my own bill is monthly ,anything else chief

So you know a lad and you heard a story, therefore the whole system is corrupt/fucked and tilted in favour of illegal immigrants.

Right you are.
only the mighty j70  knows anything, keep burying the head in the sand .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 15, 2016, 01:58:25 AM
It's completely fvcked.....I know self employed guys with families paying $20k a year for health insurance....you know kinds like the guys Bill Clinton described as humping it sixty hours a week and their insurance premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half.

God forbid you'd criticize anything (the anointed one) Mr Obama is responsible for. You are just a bitter rascist who hates poor people and you don't want to pay your fair share
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2016, 02:11:53 AM
ACTION ALERT: Folks, we have a situation in Virginia right now that demands our attention. Yesterday, two dangerous Trump supporters stood outside the campaign office of Democratic Congressional candidate Jane Dittmar openly carrying their guns. This is occurring in the wake of Trump pulling all his existing assets out of the state.

The ask here is two-fold:

1) Visit the following thread on Jane Dittmar's Facebook page and voice your support for her and her staff by leaving a comment. Tell her she made the right decision by calling police immediately.

https://www.facebook.com/janeforcongress/photos/a.510004502492642.1073741830.506175889542170/661003350726089/?type=3

2) Call the Fluvanna County Sheriff's Office at (434) 589-8211 and politely ask them to make sure they are keeping a close eye on open carrier Daniel Parks and his associate when they engage in this type of intimidation.

https://www.facebook.com/fluvannasheriffsoffice/

Thank you for standing with Jane Dittmar and her staff at this critical time. We take care of our own.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2016, 02:14:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2016, 07:04:11 PM

It's great that you still can laugh seeing as the reign of the worst president in the history of the USA is coming to an end.

Like I said, conservatives are completely removed from reality.

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b985216226383ae4b6319db828977c54-c?convert_to_webp=true)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2016, 02:19:11 AM
(https://scontent.fsnc1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14671163_1062183263880590_2159000043228033433_n.jpg?oh=b823a1560a6f05047b872667e76e8f85&oe=5899FFB1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 15, 2016, 02:34:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2016, 01:58:25 AM
It's completely fvcked.....I know self employed guys with families paying $20k a year for health insurance....you know kinds like the guys Bill Clinton described as humping it sixty hours a week and their insurance premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half.

God forbid you'd criticize anything (the anointed one) Mr Obama is responsible for. You are just a bitter rascist who hates poor people and you don't want to pay your fair share

Self awareness is the key to turning your life around... Good on you whitey getting that out in the open!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2016, 02:43:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2016, 02:14:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2016, 07:04:11 PM

It's great that you still can laugh seeing as the reign of the worst president in the history of the USA is coming to an end.

Like I said, conservatives are completely removed from reality.

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b985216226383ae4b6319db828977c54-c?convert_to_webp=true)
stick a 600 trillion deficit for this year in today column
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 15, 2016, 03:19:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 15, 2016, 02:34:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2016, 01:58:25 AM
It's completely fvcked.....I know self employed guys with families paying $20k a year for health insurance....you know kinds like the guys Bill Clinton described as humping it sixty hours a week and their insurance premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half.

God forbid you'd criticize anything (the anointed one) Mr Obama is responsible for. You are just a bitter rascist who hates poor people and you don't want to pay your fair share

Self awareness is the key to turning your life around... Good on you whitey getting that out in the open!

Haha.....Dems are always right, Repubs are always wrong ......thats the "logic" that flies around here

Bill Clinton said it, and you folks still cant admit what a fvck up Obamacare is (and is only getting worse)...."Humping it 60 hours a week, your premium doubles and your coverage id halved.....its the craziest thing ever".   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2016, 06:27:25 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2016, 02:43:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2016, 02:14:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 14, 2016, 07:04:11 PM

It's great that you still can laugh seeing as the reign of the worst president in the history of the USA is coming to an end.

Like I said, conservatives are completely removed from reality.

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b985216226383ae4b6319db828977c54-c?convert_to_webp=true)
stick a 600 trillion deficit for this year in today column

Wanna talk about deficits? Yeah we can talk about deficits.

(http://www.eclectablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Deficits2014.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2016, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2016, 01:45:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 01:22:54 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2016, 12:45:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 12:41:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Something badly wrong with a system when a citizen pays $1145 a month for health insurance and illegal immigrants are having babies in hospitals like Stanford , mills peninsula top of the line hospitals ,it's absolutely crazy stuff.

Any evidence/statistics to support your point/claim?
i work in the construction industry and I see it and hear it from guys I know are illegal every day and I know what my own bill is monthly ,anything else chief

So you know a lad and you heard a story, therefore the whole system is corrupt/fucked and tilted in favour of illegal immigrants.

Right you are.
only the mighty j70  knows anything, keep burying the head in the sand .

I didn't make any claim at all. You did. I'm just asking you to support it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Haven't reached the bottom yet... now Clinton is on drugs and they need drug tests before the debate on Wednesday. :o ;D

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 16, 2016, 12:06:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Haven't reached the bottom yet... now Clinton is on drugs and they need drug tests before the debate on Wednesday. :o ;D

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html)

Even Stew missed that one by a mile!

What's next?
Child eating cannibal?
She was born in Afghanistan to a rapid tiger??
Martian???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 16, 2016, 01:15:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Haven't reached the bottom yet... now Clinton is on drugs and they need drug tests before the debate on Wednesday. :o ;D

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html)

Spare me the faux outrage, Howard Dean publicly stated that Trump was probably on coke because he was sniffing at the first debate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/28/politics/howard-dean-donald-trump-cocaine/index.html


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 16, 2016, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 01:15:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Haven't reached the bottom yet... now Clinton is on drugs and they need drug tests before the debate on Wednesday. :o ;D

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html)

Spare me the faux outrage, Howard Dean publicly stated that Trump was probably on coke because he was sniffing at the first debate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/28/politics/howard-dean-donald-trump-cocaine/index.html

Do you not think there is a difference between the candidate spouting this type of garbage and some party nut saying it??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 16, 2016, 10:38:23 AM
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/06/1578544/-The-Untold-Story-of-Trump-Model-Management-A-Daily-Kos-Exclusive-Part-1 (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/06/1578544/-The-Untold-Story-of-Trump-Model-Management-A-Daily-Kos-Exclusive-Part-1)

This is incredible stuff. The people defending this man should hang their heads in shame.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2016, 11:16:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 01:15:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Haven't reached the bottom yet... now Clinton is on drugs and they need drug tests before the debate on Wednesday. :o ;D

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html)

Spare me the faux outrage, Howard Dean publicly stated that Trump was probably on coke because he was sniffing at the first debate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/28/politics/howard-dean-donald-trump-cocaine/index.html

What outrage? This particular claim is amusing in a pathetic kind of way, a desperate man who knows no depths to which he won't descend. Something like this will win him no votes whatsoever, which suits me fine. I'm outraged about his fomenting potential unrest and violence with his dangerous, unsupported rhetoric about "rigged" elections.

As for Dean, he is not the candidate. And he did withdraw his accusation. You think Trump will do the same?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 16, 2016, 01:13:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2016, 11:16:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 01:15:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Haven't reached the bottom yet... now Clinton is on drugs and they need drug tests before the debate on Wednesday. :o ;D

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html)

Spare me the faux outrage, Howard Dean publicly stated that Trump was probably on coke because he was sniffing at the first debate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/28/politics/howard-dean-donald-trump-cocaine/index.html

What outrage? This particular claim is amusing in a pathetic kind of way, a desperate man who knows no depths to which he won't descend. Something like this will win him no votes whatsoever, which suits me fine. I'm outraged about his fomenting potential unrest and violence with his dangerous, unsupported rhetoric about "rigged" elections.

As for Dean, he is not the candidate. And he did withdraw his accusation. You think Trump will do the same?

The Clintons have a track record of sending surrogates out to attack political opponents and this falls firmly into that camp


Deans "apology" wasnt much of an apology either (and this is according to left leaning Politico, not Fox News)

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/howard-dean-apologizes-trump-cocaine-228959

"But Dean's apology fell short of a true expression of remorse for accusing the Republican presidential nominee over Twitter of using cocaine after Trump repeatedly sniffed during Monday's first presidential debate."

The reason (imho) Trump crazy statements dont cost him votes, is that the Clintons (or their surrogates) have typically said equally outrageous things

(And this is purely speculation on my behalf, but dont be surprised if Trump has paid operatives or spies inside the Clinton campaign....its very possible he knows something or found something out through a black ops operation.  Obviously shes not on illegal drugs, but would it be beyond the realm of possibilities that shes taking some sort of prescription medication to help her get through a gruelling 1 1/2 hour debate.? Could he pay the guy who collects the Clintons trash to drop if off somewhere it could be rifled through to find out what prescriptions shes on.  I have it on good authority that some Wall Street guys paid private investigators to tail Spitzer 24/7 and thats how his use of prostitutes was uncovered)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 16, 2016, 02:09:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 01:13:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2016, 11:16:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 01:15:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Haven't reached the bottom yet... now Clinton is on drugs and they need drug tests before the debate on Wednesday. :o ;D

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html)

Spare me the faux outrage, Howard Dean publicly stated that Trump was probably on coke because he was sniffing at the first debate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/28/politics/howard-dean-donald-trump-cocaine/index.html

What outrage? This particular claim is amusing in a pathetic kind of way, a desperate man who knows no depths to which he won't descend. Something like this will win him no votes whatsoever, which suits me fine. I'm outraged about his fomenting potential unrest and violence with his dangerous, unsupported rhetoric about "rigged" elections.

As for Dean, he is not the candidate. And he did withdraw his accusation. You think Trump will do the same?

The Clintons have a track record of sending surrogates out to attack political opponents and this falls firmly into that camp


Deans "apology" wasnt much of an apology either (and this is according to left leaning Politico, not Fox News)

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/howard-dean-apologizes-trump-cocaine-228959

"But Dean's apology fell short of a true expression of remorse for accusing the Republican presidential nominee over Twitter of using cocaine after Trump repeatedly sniffed during Monday's first presidential debate."

The reason (imho) Trump crazy statements dont cost him votes, is that the Clintons (or their surrogates) have typically said equally outrageous things

(And this is purely speculation on my behalf, but dont be surprised if Trump has paid operatives or spies inside the Clinton campaign....its very possible he knows something or found something out through a black ops operation.  Obviously shes not on illegal drugs, but would it be beyond the realm of possibilities that shes taking some sort of prescription medication to help her get through a gruelling 1 1/2 hour debate.? Could he pay the guy who collects the Clintons trash to drop if off somewhere it could be rifled through to find out what prescriptions shes on.  I have it on good authority that some Wall Street guys paid private investigators to tail Spitzer 24/7 and thats how his use of prostitutes was uncovered)

Why is it ok to speculate about her taking drugs?

Tell me which of these two is the most likely to be on something: http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/aole?_ccid=false&_cc=__db_l (http://funnyordie.com/m/aole?_ccid=false&_cc=__db_l)

As with many of Trump crazy statements, I thought Freudian Slip when I heard him talk of drugs tests.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 16, 2016, 02:17:51 PM
Why is it okay to speculate about him (Trump) taking drugs?

I suggested a prescribed medication.....Howard Dean suggested and named an illegal substance...cocaine......pot...kettle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 16, 2016, 02:25:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 02:17:51 PM
Why is it okay to speculate about him (Trump) taking drugs?

I suggested a prescribed medication.....Howard Dean suggested and named an illegal substance...cocaine......pot...kettle.

Sorry, I forgot to finish that sentence.  ;D

It should have read 'why is it ok to speculate about her taking drugs, but it is way out of order to do the same about Trump'?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 16, 2016, 03:24:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 02:17:51 PM
Why is it okay to speculate about him (Trump) taking drugs?

I suggested a prescribed medication.....Howard Dean suggested and named an illegal substance...cocaine......pot...kettle.
At least nobody dies when he takes drugs
It's a pity Tony Blair didn't get the media attention Trump does before he took over
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 16, 2016, 03:53:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 16, 2016, 03:24:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 02:17:51 PM
Why is it okay to speculate about him (Trump) taking drugs?

I suggested a prescribed medication.....Howard Dean suggested and named an illegal substance...cocaine......pot...kettle.
At least nobody dies when he takes drugs
It's a pity Tony Blair didn't get the media attention Trump does before he took over

Trump and Hillary are both a fvckin disgrace, but at least she's sane whereas I question his sanity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 16, 2016, 09:10:16 PM
https://twitter.com/kellyoxford/status/786268010398961664

Apparently it's up to 40 million women who have reported sexual assaults. Unbelievable.
Only  28% of blue collar GOP women say Trump is a good role model for kids.
The GOP would usually win 60% of Suburban white female votes. Now Clinton will.

Poor Trumpety Trump got a dose of the J. K. Galbraiths

"The conventional wisdom"gives way not so much to new ideas as to "the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mayoffs on October 17, 2016, 01:19:53 AM
In my opinion this is going to get even nastier before election day. Looks like Trump is employing a scorched earth policy, going to try and play his ultimate bully tactic in the face of defeat, trying to stir up the far right into a frenzy with his delusional and dangerous comments on vote rigging. The cops are going to have a job on their hands come election time, all the anti government, gun slinging, militant nuts will be out in force.
Hopefully it will have a peaceful end, but whatever happens, the post election period will be very interesting. I think the Hillary presidency could be a short one, she's just so divisive, even amongst Democrats. Long term, I predict the beginning of a new political map in the US comprising of a new far right party with maybe Trump leading in the beginning. The GOP to the right lead by Paul Ryan, maybe even reinventing themselves slightly to pull in some disillusioned centre ground Democrats, who I think will have a new leader, maybe Kaine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 17, 2016, 11:50:23 AM
Quote from: Mayoffs on October 17, 2016, 01:19:53 AM
In my opinion this is going to get even nastier before election day. Looks like Trump is employing a scorched earth policy, going to try and play his ultimate bully tactic in the face of defeat, trying to stir up the far right into a frenzy with his delusional and dangerous comments on vote rigging. The cops are going to have a job on their hands come election time, all the anti government, gun slinging, militant nuts will be out in force.
Hopefully it will have a peaceful end, but whatever happens, the post election period will be very interesting. I think the Hillary presidency could be a short one, she's just so divisive, even amongst Democrats. Long term, I predict the beginning of a new political map in the US comprising of a new far right party with maybe Trump leading in the beginning. The GOP to the right lead by Paul Ryan, maybe even reinventing themselves slightly to pull in some disillusioned centre ground Democrats, who I think will have a new leader, maybe Kaine.
The post election period will be very volatile. Trump is odious but he speaks on behalf of a community that has been abandoned. There is a lot of bad blood on both sides. Every time Clinton attacks blue collar whites with words like deplorables she is digging a bigger hole for herself as President. The GOP is collapsing which also makes things interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 12:32:14 PM
How have Trump supporters been "abandoned"?

According to research done back in the spring, the median household income for Trump supporters exceeded those of Clinton and Sanders supporters.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/)

Which makes one wonder in what way they've been abandoned?

Is it that the bitter, white male, railing against increasing diversity and brainwashed by decades of GOP/right wing media rhetoric, is pissed off because his paranoid, perceived persecution complex outlook is losing influence in an evolving society?

Well boo-f**king-hoo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 12:58:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 01:13:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2016, 11:16:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 16, 2016, 01:15:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Haven't reached the bottom yet... now Clinton is on drugs and they need drug tests before the debate on Wednesday. :o ;D

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/as-campaign-implodes-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-is-on-drugs.html)

Spare me the faux outrage, Howard Dean publicly stated that Trump was probably on coke because he was sniffing at the first debate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/28/politics/howard-dean-donald-trump-cocaine/index.html

What outrage? This particular claim is amusing in a pathetic kind of way, a desperate man who knows no depths to which he won't descend. Something like this will win him no votes whatsoever, which suits me fine. I'm outraged about his fomenting potential unrest and violence with his dangerous, unsupported rhetoric about "rigged" elections.

As for Dean, he is not the candidate. And he did withdraw his accusation. You think Trump will do the same?

The Clintons have a track record of sending surrogates out to attack political opponents and this falls firmly into that camp


Deans "apology" wasnt much of an apology either (and this is according to left leaning Politico, not Fox News)

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/howard-dean-apologizes-trump-cocaine-228959

"But Dean's apology fell short of a true expression of remorse for accusing the Republican presidential nominee over Twitter of using cocaine after Trump repeatedly sniffed during Monday's first presidential debate."

The reason (imho) Trump crazy statements dont cost him votes, is that the Clintons (or their surrogates) have typically said equally outrageous things

(And this is purely speculation on my behalf, but dont be surprised if Trump has paid operatives or spies inside the Clinton campaign....its very possible he knows something or found something out through a black ops operation.  Obviously shes not on illegal drugs, but would it be beyond the realm of possibilities that shes taking some sort of prescription medication to help her get through a gruelling 1 1/2 hour debate.? Could he pay the guy who collects the Clintons trash to drop if off somewhere it could be rifled through to find out what prescriptions shes on.  I have it on good authority that some Wall Street guys paid private investigators to tail Spitzer 24/7 and thats how his use of prostitutes was uncovered)

Seriously, you're equating the rhetoric of the two campaigns?

The reason Trump's bullshit doesn't cost him votes is that the irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton completely blinds these people to how unsuited he is to the position. He is probably the most temperamentally ill-equipped person ever to run for the office on a major party ticket, and that is before you even get into the "content" of his demagogic campaign. She is a mainstream, competent, status quo choice whose candidacy is considerably weakened by her attempting, illegally, to side step FOIA requirements, no doubt motivated by decades of dealing with unrelenting GOP attacks, much of it completely baseless, but still responsible for the hatred towards her.

As for medicines, how many 69-70 year olds do you know who are NOT on some kind of prescriptions? I'll bet you Trump himself is, especially being a man of considerable girth. Although I'm not sure what legal prescriptions there are which would help you get through a debate or the daily grind of the election circuit?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 01:20:19 PM
https://www.intellihub.com/cnns-chris-cuomo-its-illegal-to-possess-the-wikileaks-documents/

Meanwhile CNN talking head Chris Cuomo, brother of NY Gov Andrew Cuomo (D) cautions civilians against accessing Wikileaks and suggests that instead we rely on them, the media, to decipher and interpret the leaks on our behalf. This coming from the Network that leaked debate questions directly  to the Cinton campaign.

And you wonder why people watch Fox News!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 17, 2016, 01:39:44 PM
Fox News is like the speed of light.

It is impossible to be more biased than the former and to go faster than the latter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 01:56:38 PM
I don't get why it would be illegal for viewers to "possess" those documents but not journalists? Just sounds dumb to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

Also, the texts are widely published anyway, so I don't see how Cuomo is claiming that we need "interpretation" or "deciphering", presumably along the lines of priests interpreting scripture.

And come on Whitey, for every example like this from CNN you could stack up five examples of idiocy from Fox News!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 01:59:20 PM
Very strange for wikileaks to be doing what they're doing? Looks like revenge against Clinton being Secretary of State at the time of the Manning affair.

Anyway it seems so strange now all the Republicans backing Wikileaks now after them all asking for it to be disbanded and for Assange to be arrested back in 2010. Even more strange that they are calling on hackers to do their own work for them in uncovering dirt to oust Clinton.

From what I've seen so far it's all pretty harmless stuff really with little else in it other than the mildly embarrassing... will we see something a bit more damning to her candidacy in the coming weeks? Time's running out!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on October 17, 2016, 02:00:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 17, 2016, 11:50:23 AM
Quote from: Mayoffs on October 17, 2016, 01:19:53 AM
In my opinion this is going to get even nastier before election day. Looks like Trump is employing a scorched earth policy, going to try and play his ultimate bully tactic in the face of defeat, trying to stir up the far right into a frenzy with his delusional and dangerous comments on vote rigging. The cops are going to have a job on their hands come election time, all the anti government, gun slinging, militant nuts will be out in force.
Hopefully it will have a peaceful end, but whatever happens, the post election period will be very interesting. I think the Hillary presidency could be a short one, she's just so divisive, even amongst Democrats. Long term, I predict the beginning of a new political map in the US comprising of a new far right party with maybe Trump leading in the beginning. The GOP to the right lead by Paul Ryan, maybe even reinventing themselves slightly to pull in some disillusioned centre ground Democrats, who I think will have a new leader, maybe Kaine.
The post election period will be very volatile. Trump is odious but he speaks on behalf of a community that has been abandoned. There is a lot of bad blood on both sides. Every time Clinton attacks blue collar whites with words like deplorables she is digging a bigger hole for herself as President. The GOP is collapsing which also makes things interesting.

The coverage of the election over here by the media is disgraceful and sickening.
I for one, will not be tuning into CNN or reading the NYT among others anytime soon after Hilary becomes president.
They should all take a collective shower after looking in the mirror at what they have pushed down the throats of the American public.

Some of the far right on Fox are similar, but in terms of the constant propaganda, it pales in comparison with all of the other channels put together.

As a parent of kids, I truly fear what the future will hold for them if we have eight more years like the last eight, and there is no reason to believe that it will be any different.
The well paying manufacturing jobs that propelled Americans into the middle class seem to be disappearing as industries such as Energy, Banking and Healthcare are becoming so highly regulated that these industries are retrenching and for each additional regulatory person they are compelled to hire, they lay off somebody else. That is fact.
Throw in higher taxation and stealth taxes, and at some point the wealthy or successful will just say FFit and stop spending and reinvesting. Highest tax rate eight years ago was 35.5% or thereabouts, which I would say was fair even a bit below what highest earners should pay. However now it has jumped to almost 44% including Obamacare tax. Throw in the stealth taxes such as medical co-pays that did not exist eight years ago. 
On topic I was at a wedding over the weekend stayed over , hotel  was $225 not outrageous, but there was an additional almost $30 in sales tax, I rarely pay that much attention to bills, that I looks at line items of taxes but it makes one shake their heads.

Finally J70, you appear smarter than anybody on this board, so a couple of points I believe in that I feel are worth pointing out;

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich,
you cannot lift a wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down,
you cannot help people permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

Last one may be over simplistic, as I truly believe that if someone who has worked all their life and loses their job in their 50's
should be taken care of, but when you have generational cases of entitlements , it becomes a very difficult cycle to break.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 02:02:02 PM
Yes, nothing really damaging so far. 22 days left though.

And you're right screenexile. A lot of hypocrisy on display from the right (and I'm not saying for a second that it wouldn't be mirrored by the Dems had it happened the other way!).

The shoe will be on the other foot soon enough. What revelations would/will be forthcoming from email leaks of the RNC and the Trump campaign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:08:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2016, 01:56:38 PM
I don't get why it would be illegal for viewers to "possess" those documents but not journalists? Just sounds dumb to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

Also, the texts are widely published anyway, so I don't see how Cuomo is claiming that we need "interpretation" or "deciphering", presumably along the lines of priests interpreting scripture.

And come on Whitey, for every example like this from CNN you could stack up five examples of idiocy from Fox News!

Agreed, but the difference is that everyone knows what Fox News is and what their agenda is, whereas CNN is still presenting as an impartial arm of the main stream media
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 01:59:20 PM
Very strange for wikileaks to be doing what they're doing? Looks like revenge against Clinton being Secretary of State at the time of the Manning affair.

Anyway it seems so strange now all the Republicans backing Wikileaks now after them all asking for it to be disbanded and for Assange to be arrested back in 2010. Even more strange that they are calling on hackers to do their own work for them in uncovering dirt to oust Clinton.

From what I've seen so far it's all pretty harmless stuff really with little else in it other than the mildly embarrassing... will we see something a bit more damning to her candidacy in the coming weeks? Time's running out!!

Violating election law, pay for play with the Clinton Foundation, rigging the primary, rigging the debates.....nothing to see here folks.....move along
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 17, 2016, 02:13:21 PM
44% tax is not destroying the rich. That is a completely hysterical claim.

(http://www.accounting-degree.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/taxes-around-the-world.jpg)

As for the hotel room tax. That works out at at 13.3%. We just moved our down to 9%. In London I believe there is a full VAT charge of 20%. So again 13.3% is hardly outrageous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
It's very hard to do an apples to apples because the systems are completely different

I pay $6k a year in property tax, about $3k a year in water charges and a YEARS  tuition at a good college will cost me $40-50k WHEN MY KIDS GO.....so yes while relatively speaking it looks like taxes are lower, Yanks pay an arms and a leg for other things that are virtually free in other parts of  He globe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 17, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
It's very hard to do an apples to apples because the systems are completely different

I pay $6k a year in property tax, about $3k a year in water charges and a YEARS  tuition at a good college will cost me $40-50k WHEN MY KIDS GO.....so yes while relatively speaking it looks like taxes are lower, Yanks pay an arms and a leg for other things that are virtually free in other parts of  He globe

In fairness that is pretty shocking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 02:26:33 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 17, 2016, 02:00:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 17, 2016, 11:50:23 AM
Quote from: Mayoffs on October 17, 2016, 01:19:53 AM
In my opinion this is going to get even nastier before election day. Looks like Trump is employing a scorched earth policy, going to try and play his ultimate bully tactic in the face of defeat, trying to stir up the far right into a frenzy with his delusional and dangerous comments on vote rigging. The cops are going to have a job on their hands come election time, all the anti government, gun slinging, militant nuts will be out in force.
Hopefully it will have a peaceful end, but whatever happens, the post election period will be very interesting. I think the Hillary presidency could be a short one, she's just so divisive, even amongst Democrats. Long term, I predict the beginning of a new political map in the US comprising of a new far right party with maybe Trump leading in the beginning. The GOP to the right lead by Paul Ryan, maybe even reinventing themselves slightly to pull in some disillusioned centre ground Democrats, who I think will have a new leader, maybe Kaine.
The post election period will be very volatile. Trump is odious but he speaks on behalf of a community that has been abandoned. There is a lot of bad blood on both sides. Every time Clinton attacks blue collar whites with words like deplorables she is digging a bigger hole for herself as President. The GOP is collapsing which also makes things interesting.

The coverage of the election over here by the media is disgraceful and sickening.
I for one, will not be tuning into CNN or reading the NYT among others anytime soon after Hilary becomes president.
They should all take a collective shower after looking in the mirror at what they have pushed down the throats of the American public.

Some of the far right on Fox are similar, but in terms of the constant propaganda, it pales in comparison with all of the other channels put together.

As a parent of kids, I truly fear what the future will hold for them if we have eight more years like the last eight, and there is no reason to believe that it will be any different.
The well paying manufacturing jobs that propelled Americans into the middle class seem to be disappearing as industries such as Energy, Banking and Healthcare are becoming so highly regulated that these industries are retrenching and for each additional regulatory person they are compelled to hire, they lay off somebody else. That is fact.
Throw in higher taxation and stealth taxes, and at some point the wealthy or successful will just say FFit and stop spending and reinvesting. Highest tax rate eight years ago was 35.5% or thereabouts, which I would say was fair even a bit below what highest earners should pay. However now it has jumped to almost 44% including Obamacare tax. Throw in the stealth taxes such as medical co-pays that did not exist eight years ago. 
On topic I was at a wedding over the weekend stayed over , hotel  was $225 not outrageous, but there was an additional almost $30 in sales tax, I rarely pay that much attention to bills, that I looks at line items of taxes but it makes one shake their heads.

Finally J70, you appear smarter than anybody on this board, so a couple of points I believe in that I feel are worth pointing out;

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich,
you cannot lift a wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down,
you cannot help people permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

Last one may be over simplistic, as I truly believe that if someone who has worked all their life and loses their job in their 50's
should be taken care of, but when you have generational cases of entitlements , it becomes a very difficult cycle to break.

But what is the solution to the loss of manufacturing jobs? How do you reverse automation and the loss of jobs to outsourcing for cheaper costs and labour? Trump's trade war threats aren't going to do anything to help upstate NY or the midwest.

And what specific regs are you talking about? Should banks be free to abuse their customers, both on the investment and retail sides? Should Wall Street be free to package crappy mortgages and sell them as A-rated investments to pension plans and individuals? Should energy companies be free to emit whatever they want into the atmosphere or frack away to their hearts' content, no matter what the implications for local water supplies? As for the higher tax rates, the GOP agreed to let the higher marginal rates increase right after the 2012 election. Obama campaigned on that. While sales taxes are a state and local affair, not a federal tax.

As for the last bit, ok, nice slogan, but who is advocating "destroying the rich"?

You have a presidential candidate who has admitted not paying federal income tax in two decades!

And to continue with the simplicity, tax decreases are more effective at the bottom end. A working class person spends far more, if not all, of their income on a week to week basis than a rich person. Their money is far more likely to go directly into the economy.
Whereas flat taxes or increased sales taxes will pull their money out of the economy.

As I said, simplistic. Luckily for us all there is a real life experiment in trickle-down economics going on right now in Kansas. Last I heard, it wasn't going too well!

And yes, the cycle of dependency is something that needs to be fought. The question is how? Just cutting off welfare and booting people off or denying them Medicaid doesn't solve anything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 17, 2016, 02:28:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 17, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
It's very hard to do an apples to apples because the systems are completely different

I pay $6k a year in property tax, about $3k a year in water charges and a YEARS  tuition at a good college will cost me $40-50k WHEN MY KIDS GO.....so yes while relatively speaking it looks like taxes are lower, Yanks pay an arms and a leg for other things that are virtually free in other parts of  He globe

In fairness that is pretty shocking.

It's the cost of college in the US that I find unbelievable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:28:44 PM
That's nothing, people in CT, NJ and NY routinely pay $10k just in property taxes

https://www.coldwellbankerhomes.com/ct/west-hartford/41-trotwood-dr/pid_14797999/

This would be regarded as a very modest house for this town and they're getting hit up for $8600 in tax annually
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 02:32:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:08:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2016, 01:56:38 PM
I don't get why it would be illegal for viewers to "possess" those documents but not journalists? Just sounds dumb to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

Also, the texts are widely published anyway, so I don't see how Cuomo is claiming that we need "interpretation" or "deciphering", presumably along the lines of priests interpreting scripture.

And come on Whitey, for every example like this from CNN you could stack up five examples of idiocy from Fox News!

Agreed, but the difference is that everyone knows what Fox News is and what their agenda is, whereas CNN is still presenting as an impartial arm of the main stream media

But Fox presents themselves as that too!

I did hear Michael Smerconish talking, sarcastically, in a piece about the emails, about CNN being known as the Clinton News Network the other evening!

(I'm stuck with CNN now since we got rid of cable and went with Sling TV!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 02:33:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 17, 2016, 02:28:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 17, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
It's very hard to do an apples to apples because the systems are completely different

I pay $6k a year in property tax, about $3k a year in water charges and a YEARS  tuition at a good college will cost me $40-50k WHEN MY KIDS GO.....so yes while relatively speaking it looks like taxes are lower, Yanks pay an arms and a leg for other things that are virtually free in other parts of  He globe

In fairness that is pretty shocking.

It's the cost of college in the US that I find unbelievable.

Why do you think Bernie resonated so well with young people?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 01:59:20 PM
Very strange for wikileaks to be doing what they're doing? Looks like revenge against Clinton being Secretary of State at the time of the Manning affair.

Anyway it seems so strange now all the Republicans backing Wikileaks now after them all asking for it to be disbanded and for Assange to be arrested back in 2010. Even more strange that they are calling on hackers to do their own work for them in uncovering dirt to oust Clinton.

From what I've seen so far it's all pretty harmless stuff really with little else in it other than the mildly embarrassing... will we see something a bit more damning to her candidacy in the coming weeks? Time's running out!!

Violating election law, pay for play with the Clinton Foundation, rigging the primary, rigging the debates.....nothing to see here folks.....move along

If you're so worried that the system is rigged then don't forget to volunteer...

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/landing/volunteer-to-be-a-trump-election-observer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:40:26 PM
If they were willing to cheat their own people it's not too much of a stretch to assume they will try and cheat everyone else too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on October 17, 2016, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 17, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
It's very hard to do an apples to apples because the systems are completely different

I pay $6k a year in property tax, about $3k a year in water charges and a YEARS  tuition at a good college will cost me $40-50k WHEN MY KIDS GO.....so yes while relatively speaking it looks like taxes are lower, Yanks pay an arms and a leg for other things that are virtually free in other parts of  He globe

In fairness that is pretty shocking.

Muppet,

You obviously don't live in the US.
It may be time to take a deep breadth and focus on some facts.

Catholic high school in US avg cost 18-20k, you could argue optional, but not in all cases.
College 55-65k x 4 fact, I just wrote a check for year one. This does not include spending money.
All of the above are post tax #'s

Average Real Estate taxes are 18-25k again post tax #
as mentioned earlier, there are so many stealth taxes today that in reality, tax rate is not anywhere near 44%.
Still not totally unreasonable mind you, except when you hear Hilary say she is going to increase taxes on wealthy again.
At some point, you just retrench and dig in.
Result. You don't take that vacation, impact on who , Taxi driver, hotels workers, people who are less fortunate.
The five year old car become a six or seven year old car, impact on who. a lot of people.
You donate less, impact on who again, less fortunate.

It does trickle down at the end of the day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 02:45:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2016, 02:32:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:08:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2016, 01:56:38 PM
I don't get why it would be illegal for viewers to "possess" those documents but not journalists? Just sounds dumb to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

Also, the texts are widely published anyway, so I don't see how Cuomo is claiming that we need "interpretation" or "deciphering", presumably along the lines of priests interpreting scripture.

And come on Whitey, for every example like this from CNN you could stack up five examples of idiocy from Fox News!

Agreed, but the difference is that everyone knows what Fox News is and what their agenda is, whereas CNN is still presenting as an impartial arm of the main stream media

But Fox presents themselves as that too!

I did hear Michael Smerconish talking, sarcastically, in a piece about the emails, about CNN being known as the Clinton News Network the other evening!

(I'm stuck with CNN now since we got rid of cable and went with Sling TV!)

Is it not a case with CNN that they are not necessaily pro Clinton but Anti Trump? Who could blame them!!

Is there not a fair chance they will go back to being a reasonably neutral news organisation after the election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:52:43 PM
They leaked debate questions to Hillary......what planet are you on?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 03:34:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:52:43 PM
They leaked debate questions to Hillary......what planet are you on?

Questions?

I know about the Donna Brazile-death penalty one. Are there others?

Don't you think that the GOP talking heads on these networks ever pass on intel to their campaigns?

Regardless, its not like the question was a very complex, unexpected one that she would not have a stock answer for anyway. The execution of innocent people is probably the primary argument against it, so I would be stunned if their canned answer didn't address it. So I'm not sure what advantage would have been gained. They (Trump excepted, though that's his own fault!) prep the f**k out of these candidates for debates!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:52:43 PM
They leaked debate questions to Hillary......what planet are you on?

A former employee leaked one question after she had left the Network... bad for Brazile but hardly mind blowing stuff!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on October 17, 2016, 03:35:39 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 17, 2016, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 17, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
It's very hard to do an apples to apples because the systems are completely different

I pay $6k a year in property tax, about $3k a year in water charges and a YEARS  tuition at a good college will cost me $40-50k WHEN MY KIDS GO.....so yes while relatively speaking it looks like taxes are lower, Yanks pay an arms and a leg for other things that are virtually free in other parts of  He globe

In fairness that is pretty shocking.

Muppet,

You obviously don't live in the US.
It may be time to take a deep breadth and focus on some facts.

Catholic high school in US avg cost 18-20k, you could argue optional, but not in all cases.
College 55-65k x 4 fact, I just wrote a check for year one. This does not include spending money.
All of the above are post tax #'s

Average Real Estate taxes are 18-25k again post tax #
as mentioned earlier, there are so many stealth taxes today that in reality, tax rate is not anywhere near 44%.
Still not totally unreasonable mind you, except when you hear Hilary say she is going to increase taxes on wealthy again.
At some point, you just retrench and dig in.
Result. You don't take that vacation, impact on who , Taxi driver, hotels workers, people who are less fortunate.
The five year old car become a six or seven year old car, impact on who. a lot of people.
You donate less, impact on who again, less fortunate.

It does trickle down at the end of the day.

Joe you are paying substantially over the median for college tuition. The number you just listed is more than most states medical/dental/law school tuition.

In state tuition averages slightly less than $10k
Out of state tuition averages around $25k (depending on good neighbor status etc..)
Private colleges average in the $35k range

I would argue that catholic high school is 100% optional. Catholic/private, whatever. All optional.

What additional real estate taxes above property tax are you paying that take you to 18-25k yearly?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 03:45:53 PM
His kid is obviously going to a very good school .....good for him/her

Here's UMASS:  https://www.umass.edu/veterans/average-costs-attendance-undergraduate-students

Instate-Tuition , room and board and health insurance $28K

And UMASS, while a good school, wouldn't be ranked by anyone outside of New England

A client of mine, his son just left for Georgetown-all in for $64K

http://college-tuition.startclass.com/l/771/Georgetown-University


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 03:55:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:52:43 PM
They leaked debate questions to Hillary......what planet are you on?

A former employee leaked one question after she had left the Network... bad for Brazile but hardly mind blowing stuff!


Eh......wrong.  She was working there at the time of the leak.  The CNN moderated of said debate called it horrifying

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/10/13/cnns-jake-tapper-blasts-leak-of-town-hall-question-to-clinton-campaign-journalistically-its-horrifying/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 03:55:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:52:43 PM
They leaked debate questions to Hillary......what planet are you on?

A former employee leaked one question after she had left the Network... bad for Brazile but hardly mind blowing stuff!


Eh......wrong.  She was working there at the time of the leak.  The CNN moderated of said debate called it horrifying

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/10/13/cnns-jake-tapper-blasts-leak-of-town-hall-question-to-clinton-campaign-journalistically-its-horrifying/

So is it CNN with a co-ordinated effort to get Clinton elected or just Brazile on her own?

Look I'm not saying I condone it but you have Hannity on the other side with an hour long Trump love in every night and I'm sure Trump is well prepared for whatever questions Hannity asks whenever he joins the show.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 03:55:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:52:43 PM
They leaked debate questions to Hillary......what planet are you on?

A former employee leaked one question after she had left the Network... bad for Brazile but hardly mind blowing stuff!


Eh......wrong.  She was working there at the time of the leak.  The CNN moderated of said debate called it horrifying

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/10/13/cnns-jake-tapper-blasts-leak-of-town-hall-question-to-clinton-campaign-journalistically-its-horrifying/

But Tapper says CNN had nothing to do with the leak, and it was one of the other parties involved that gave the question to Brazile.

The article also castigates CNN for employing political operatives like Brazile whose first loyalty is to their party (just like they've employed Lewandowski while he has been on the Trump payroll all summer).

The whole cable news modus operandi is to get biased political operatives to either state slanted opinion as fact, to shout at each other, or to give false equivalency to bullshit opposition. That it has been revealed, in this case, to bite one of them in the arse, should not be a shock to anyone. Shit's been going on for years and is partly why American political discourse is so poisoned.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2016, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 03:55:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2016, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:52:43 PM
They leaked debate questions to Hillary......what planet are you on?

A former employee leaked one question after she had left the Network... bad for Brazile but hardly mind blowing stuff!


Eh......wrong.  She was working there at the time of the leak.  The CNN moderated of said debate called it horrifying

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/10/13/cnns-jake-tapper-blasts-leak-of-town-hall-question-to-clinton-campaign-journalistically-its-horrifying/

So is it CNN with a co-ordinated effort to get Clinton elected or just Brazile on her own?

Look I'm not saying I condone it but you have Hannity on the other side with an hour long Trump love in every night and I'm sure Trump is well prepared for whatever questions Hannity asks whenever he joins the show.

In my opinion it is a concerted effort.  Here are 2 blatant examples of them getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar and you guys are still in full denial mode. 

False equivalence comparing an interview with Fox News and a debate between 2 candidates where CNN are stacking the deck heavily in favor of one candidate over the other when they are supposed to be an impartial modrrator

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2016, 05:23:57 PM
Don't think anyone's denying that it happened.

I just have a cynical view of politics and politicians. Connections and dirt and favours are part of the game. And I am fully confident that if Wikileaks had taken time to hack the RNC, that similar revelations would be coming out about favouritism and string pulling. Its just that this year, an outsider who didn't need the RNC has swept all before him, while the ultimate insider and outside personality has harnessed the Dem machine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 17, 2016, 05:30:05 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 17, 2016, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 17, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
It's very hard to do an apples to apples because the systems are completely different

I pay $6k a year in property tax, about $3k a year in water charges and a YEARS  tuition at a good college will cost me $40-50k WHEN MY KIDS GO.....so yes while relatively speaking it looks like taxes are lower, Yanks pay an arms and a leg for other things that are virtually free in other parts of  He globe

In fairness that is pretty shocking.

Muppet,

You obviously don't live in the US.
It may be time to take a deep breadth and focus on some facts.

Catholic high school in US avg cost 18-20k, you could argue optional, but not in all cases.
College 55-65k x 4 fact, I just wrote a check for year one. This does not include spending money.
All of the above are post tax #'s

Average Real Estate taxes are 18-25k again post tax #
as mentioned earlier, there are so many stealth taxes today that in reality, tax rate is not anywhere near 44%.
Still not totally unreasonable mind you, except when you hear Hilary say she is going to increase taxes on wealthy again.
At some point, you just retrench and dig in.
Result. You don't take that vacation, impact on who , Taxi driver, hotels workers, people who are less fortunate.
The five year old car become a six or seven year old car, impact on who. a lot of people.
You donate less, impact on who again, less fortunate.

It does trickle down at the end of the day.

I don't and I resent your insinuation that I was somehow not posting facts.

Education and health are fundamental rights in my view and should be freely available to all. However it should be pointed out that making people pay for health and for school/college fees is right-wing ideology.

Trump is advocating tax-cuts for the rich. How do you think the shortfall will be made up and who will pay for it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 17, 2016, 10:02:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 17, 2016, 05:30:05 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 17, 2016, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 17, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
It's very hard to do an apples to apples because the systems are completely different

I pay $6k a year in property tax, about $3k a year in water charges and a YEARS  tuition at a good college will cost me $40-50k WHEN MY KIDS GO.....so yes while relatively speaking it looks like taxes are lower, Yanks pay an arms and a leg for other things that are virtually free in other parts of  He globe

In fairness that is pretty shocking.

Muppet,

You obviously don't live in the US.
It may be time to take a deep breadth and focus on some facts.

Catholic high school in US avg cost 18-20k, you could argue optional, but not in all cases.
College 55-65k x 4 fact, I just wrote a check for year one. This does not include spending money.
All of the above are post tax #'s

Average Real Estate taxes are 18-25k again post tax #
as mentioned earlier, there are so many stealth taxes today that in reality, tax rate is not anywhere near 44%.
Still not totally unreasonable mind you, except when you hear Hilary say she is going to increase taxes on wealthy again.
At some point, you just retrench and dig in.
Result. You don't take that vacation, impact on who , Taxi driver, hotels workers, people who are less fortunate.
The five year old car become a six or seven year old car, impact on who. a lot of people.
You donate less, impact on who again, less fortunate.

It does trickle down at the end of the day.

I don't and I resent your insinuation that I was somehow not posting facts.

Education and health are fundamental rights in my view and should be freely available to all. However it should be pointed out that making people pay for health and for school/college fees is right-wing ideology.

Trump is advocating tax-cuts for the rich. How do you think the shortfall will be made up and who will pay for it?
A lot of health care premiums are paid by the employer. They grew by 5 or 6% recently and companies cover them meaning there wasn't much left for payrises.
the US has a number of crises coming together at the same time. Inequality, wage stagnation, health inflation, the meltdown of the GOP, a useless Fed,. It is all going very pear shaped.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 17, 2016, 11:45:28 PM
Looks like the clintons and the dnc are behind the violent protests at trump rallies and how they try rise trump supporters to attack them as well as money laundering accusations and several other things arising from secret tapes of Clinton operatives secretly recorded , stay tuned!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:21:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 17, 2016, 11:45:28 PM
Looks like the clintons and the dnc are behind the violent protests at trump rallies and how they try rise trump supporters to attack them as well as money laundering accusations and several other things arising from secret tapes of Clinton operatives secretly recorded , stay tuned!!!

Source?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 18, 2016, 12:29:50 AM
O Keefe did some hidden camera stuff that's pretty alarming, but of course it will be swept under the rug...nothing to see here move along

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/james-okeefe-reveals-dnc-hillary-campaign-bird-dogging-incite-violence-trump-rallies-pure-evil/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 AM
Given O'Keefe's record, and that of the Planned Parenthood dude, maybe you should withhold judgement for a wee bit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 18, 2016, 01:00:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 AM
Given O'Keefe's record, and that of the Planned Parenthood dude, maybe you should withhold judgement for a wee bit.

Oh no....Ive already watched it and he has has them all on tape admitting that they were co-ordinating with the Clinton campaign

http://projectveritasaction.com/rigging-election-video-i-clinton-campaign-and-dnc-incite-violence-trump-rallies.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2016, 01:50:07 AM
Suit yourself. I'll withhold judgement given his track record.

That said, activists provoking opponents is not illegal or new. And if they're now going to start enforcing the wall between campaigns and PACs, both sides will be in bother.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
So what's going on with Wikileaks and Assange. From what I can gather John Kerry made some threats towards Ecuador that they should extradite him ASAP or face serious consequences. Assanges Internet access has been cut off now by Ecuadorian officials.

This follows the leak of Hilarys Goldman Sachs speeches along with the podesta emails and others. There might be some move in the coming hours where he is removed from the embassy and placed under arrest.

This is all from reading Wikileaks tweets and other insider sources which will either be proved true or false as events take shape.

Goes to show how much the establishment, corporations, media and all their backers want Hilary rather than a Trump or Sanders putting the brakes on their gravy train.

Might all be a ruse by Assange as he might have nothing left on her though from what I've read it should already be over for her. Perhaps if she wasn't running against a buffoon like trump it would be, but then only for Trump running against a corrupt hag like Clinton is he still in the race. Bizarre situation. Hard to believe this is what America has to choose between.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 18, 2016, 01:58:20 AM
I'm hearing another story on her to break Wednesday as well as another video tomorrow .
With the documentary Clinton cash also out there some of this stuff has to be creditable and really prison is the place for her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 18, 2016, 02:04:28 AM
Hillary will not be able to govern.....this is going to put someone over the edge

Everything people have been saying about the Clintons is now being exposed as true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 02:05:59 AM
Not to mention RussiaToday getting its bank accounts frozen by the UK. There is serious skullduggery going on. All the while there is little or no evidence of Russia hacking the DNC but it would seem they make a nice scapegoat. However I wouldn't like them to poke the bear too hard. It's getting ridiculous now, and all of it unnecessary from what I can see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2016, 02:10:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
So what's going on with Wikileaks and Assange. From what I can gather John Kerry made some threats towards Ecuador that they should extradite him ASAP or face serious consequences. Assanges Internet access has been cut off now by Ecuadorian officials.

This follows the leak of Hilarys Goldman Sachs speeches along with the podesta emails and others. There might be some move in the coming hours where he is removed from the embassy and placed under arrest.

This is all from reading Wikileaks tweets and other insider sources which will either be proved true or false as events take shape.

Goes to show how much the establishment, corporations, media and all their backers want Hilary rather than a Trump or Sanders putting the brakes on their gravy train.

Might all be a ruse by Assange as he might have nothing left on her though from what I've read it should already be over for her. Perhaps if she wasn't running against a buffoon like trump it would be, but then only for Trump running against a corrupt hag like Clinton is he still in the race. Bizarre situation. Hard to believe this is what America has to choose between.

If either of them was running against almost anyone else, this election would be done and dusted.

Worst pair of candidates ever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 18, 2016, 02:25:15 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 02:05:59 AM
Not to mention RussiaToday getting its bank accounts frozen by the UK. There is serious skullduggery going on. All the while there is little or no evidence of Russia hacking the DNC but it would seem they make a nice scapegoat. However I wouldn't like them to poke the bear too hard. It's getting ridiculous now, and all of it unnecessary from what I can see.
[/quotei I better stop posting or the gestapo will be banging on the door
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2016, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2016, 02:04:28 AM
Hillary will not be able to govern.

Wanna bet? The way the house and senate races are going, it looks like Trump is dragging the whole GOP ship down to the bottom with him. The Republicans are finished for a generation. We're looking at immigration reform, socialized medicine, death penalty abolition, gun control and a load of other progress in the next eight years with plenty of high quality Democrats waiting in the wings to step in next (Booker, Newsom, etc.). The catastrophic GW Bush years are looking more and more like an anomaly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: MoChara on October 18, 2016, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 02:10:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
So what's going on with Wikileaks and Assange. From what I can gather John Kerry made some threats towards Ecuador that they should extradite him ASAP or face serious consequences. Assanges Internet access has been cut off now by Ecuadorian officials.

This follows the leak of Hilarys Goldman Sachs speeches along with the podesta emails and others. There might be some move in the coming hours where he is removed from the embassy and placed under arrest.

This is all from reading Wikileaks tweets and other insider sources which will either be proved true or false as events take shape.

Goes to show how much the establishment, corporations, media and all their backers want Hilary rather than a Trump or Sanders putting the brakes on their gravy train.

Might all be a ruse by Assange as he might have nothing left on her though from what I've read it should already be over for her. Perhaps if she wasn't running against a buffoon like trump it would be, but then only for Trump running against a corrupt hag like Clinton is he still in the race. Bizarre situation. Hard to believe this is what America has to choose between.

If either of them was running against almost anyone else, this election would be done and dusted.

Worst pair of candidates ever.

This whole thing makes me think of this Malcolm X quote, especially the bit in bold


"It isn't a president who can help or hurt; it is the system. And this system is not just ruling America, it is ruling the world. Nowadays, when a man is running for the President of the United States, he is not running for President of the United States alone; he has to be acceptable to other areas of the world where American influence rules. If Johnson had been running all by himself, he would not have been acceptable to anyone. The only thing that made him acceptable to the world was that the shrewd capitalists, the shrewd imperialists, knew that the only way people would run toward the fox would be if you showed them a wolf. So they created a ghastly alternative. And it had the whole world—including people who call themselves Marxists—hoping that Johnson would beat Goldwater. I have to say this: Those who claim to be enemies of the system were on their hands and knees waiting for Johnson to get elected---because he is supposed to be a man of peace. And at that moment he had troops invading the Congo and South Vietnam! He even has troops in areas where other imperialists have already withdrawn. Peace Corps to Nigeria, mercernaries to the Congo!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2016, 10:03:20 AM
Quote from: MoChara on October 18, 2016, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 02:10:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
So what's going on with Wikileaks and Assange. From what I can gather John Kerry made some threats towards Ecuador that they should extradite him ASAP or face serious consequences. Assanges Internet access has been cut off now by Ecuadorian officials.

This follows the leak of Hilarys Goldman Sachs speeches along with the podesta emails and others. There might be some move in the coming hours where he is removed from the embassy and placed under arrest.

This is all from reading Wikileaks tweets and other insider sources which will either be proved true or false as events take shape.

Goes to show how much the establishment, corporations, media and all their backers want Hilary rather than a Trump or Sanders putting the brakes on their gravy train.

Might all be a ruse by Assange as he might have nothing left on her though from what I've read it should already be over for her. Perhaps if she wasn't running against a buffoon like trump it would be, but then only for Trump running against a corrupt hag like Clinton is he still in the race. Bizarre situation. Hard to believe this is what America has to choose between.

If either of them was running against almost anyone else, this election would be done and dusted.

Worst pair of candidates ever.

This whole thing makes me think of this Malcolm X quote, especially the bit in bold


"It isn't a president who can help or hurt; it is the system. And this system is not just ruling America, it is ruling the world. Nowadays, when a man is running for the President of the United States, he is not running for President of the United States alone; he has to be acceptable to other areas of the world where American influence rules. If Johnson had been running all by himself, he would not have been acceptable to anyone. The only thing that made him acceptable to the world was that the shrewd capitalists, the shrewd imperialists, knew that the only way people would run toward the fox would be if you showed them a wolf. So they created a ghastly alternative. And it had the whole world—including people who call themselves Marxists—hoping that Johnson would beat Goldwater. I have to say this: Those who claim to be enemies of the system were on their hands and knees waiting for Johnson to get elected---because he is supposed to be a man of peace. And at that moment he had troops invading the Congo and South Vietnam! He even has troops in areas where other imperialists have already withdrawn. Peace Corps to Nigeria, mercernaries to the Congo!"
That is a fantastic quote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 18, 2016, 10:48:53 AM
What's that movie where the black guy with the same name as a deceased candidate runs and wins? He'd win this election by a mile.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on October 18, 2016, 10:57:50 AM
Quote from: MoChara on October 18, 2016, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 02:10:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
So what's going on with Wikileaks and Assange. From what I can gather John Kerry made some threats towards Ecuador that they should extradite him ASAP or face serious consequences. Assanges Internet access has been cut off now by Ecuadorian officials.

This follows the leak of Hilarys Goldman Sachs speeches along with the podesta emails and others. There might be some move in the coming hours where he is removed from the embassy and placed under arrest.

This is all from reading Wikileaks tweets and other insider sources which will either be proved true or false as events take shape.

Goes to show how much the establishment, corporations, media and all their backers want Hilary rather than a Trump or Sanders putting the brakes on their gravy train.

Might all be a ruse by Assange as he might have nothing left on her though from what I've read it should already be over for her. Perhaps if she wasn't running against a buffoon like trump it would be, but then only for Trump running against a corrupt hag like Clinton is he still in the race. Bizarre situation. Hard to believe this is what America has to choose between.

If either of them was running against almost anyone else, this election would be done and dusted.

Worst pair of candidates ever.

This whole thing makes me think of this Malcolm X quote, especially the bit in bold


"It isn't a president who can help or hurt; it is the system. And this system is not just ruling America, it is ruling the world. Nowadays, when a man is running for the President of the United States, he is not running for President of the United States alone; he has to be acceptable to other areas of the world where American influence rules. If Johnson had been running all by himself, he would not have been acceptable to anyone. The only thing that made him acceptable to the world was that the shrewd capitalists, the shrewd imperialists, knew that the only way people would run toward the fox would be if you showed them a wolf. So they created a ghastly alternative. And it had the whole world—including people who call themselves Marxists—hoping that Johnson would beat Goldwater. I have to say this: Those who claim to be enemies of the system were on their hands and knees waiting for Johnson to get elected---because he is supposed to be a man of peace. And at that moment he had troops invading the Congo and South Vietnam! He even has troops in areas where other imperialists have already withdrawn. Peace Corps to Nigeria, mercernaries to the Congo!"

When I view this there is no bit in bold!!! Though strangely I see it has appeared when I have quoted it.

Clear evidence that the Clintons are controlling this board and what people can see on it!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 11:10:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2016, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2016, 02:04:28 AM
Hillary will not be able to govern.

Wanna bet? The way the house and senate races are going, it looks like Trump is dragging the whole GOP ship down to the bottom with him. The Republicans are finished for a generation. We're looking at immigration reform, socialized medicine, death penalty abolition, gun control and a load of other progress in the next eight years with plenty of high quality Democrats waiting in the wings to step in next (Booker, Newsom, etc.). The catastrophic GW Bush years are looking more and more like an anomaly.

The GOP are finished from what I can see. They would love to go back to nominating a Jeb or a Romney but that will fail miserably as everyone knows they stand for nothing different to Hillary that really matters. They can try pandering to minorities like the democrats but they'll lose the disaffected white vote, though where that vote goes after that is anyone's guess. The libertarians are a joke.

The democrats will have their own problems keeping the neo-cons who are backing Hilary and their multi-faceted base from diverging. But as the podesta emails have shown its only a matter of keeping a "uniformed and compliant electorate".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: MoChara on October 18, 2016, 11:14:07 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 18, 2016, 10:57:50 AM
Quote from: MoChara on October 18, 2016, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 02:10:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
So what's going on with Wikileaks and Assange. From what I can gather John Kerry made some threats towards Ecuador that they should extradite him ASAP or face serious consequences. Assanges Internet access has been cut off now by Ecuadorian officials.

This follows the leak of Hilarys Goldman Sachs speeches along with the podesta emails and others. There might be some move in the coming hours where he is removed from the embassy and placed under arrest.

This is all from reading Wikileaks tweets and other insider sources which will either be proved true or false as events take shape.

Goes to show how much the establishment, corporations, media and all their backers want Hilary rather than a Trump or Sanders putting the brakes on their gravy train.

Might all be a ruse by Assange as he might have nothing left on her though from what I've read it should already be over for her. Perhaps if she wasn't running against a buffoon like trump it would be, but then only for Trump running against a corrupt hag like Clinton is he still in the race. Bizarre situation. Hard to believe this is what America has to choose between.

If either of them was running against almost anyone else, this election would be done and dusted.

Worst pair of candidates ever.

This whole thing makes me think of this Malcolm X quote, especially the bit in bold


"It isn't a president who can help or hurt; it is the system. And this system is not just ruling America, it is ruling the world. Nowadays, when a man is running for the President of the United States, he is not running for President of the United States alone; he has to be acceptable to other areas of the world where American influence rules. If Johnson had been running all by himself, he would not have been acceptable to anyone. The only thing that made him acceptable to the world was that the shrewd capitalists, the shrewd imperialists, knew that the only way people would run toward the fox would be if you showed them a wolf. So they created a ghastly alternative. And it had the whole world—including people who call themselves Marxists—hoping that Johnson would beat Goldwater. I have to say this: Those who claim to be enemies of the system were on their hands and knees waiting for Johnson to get elected---because he is supposed to be a man of peace. And at that moment he had troops invading the Congo and South Vietnam! He even has troops in areas where other imperialists have already withdrawn. Peace Corps to Nigeria, mercernaries to the Congo!"

When I view this there is no bit in bold!!! Though strangely I see it has appeared when I have quoted it.

Clear evidence that the Clintons are controlling this board and what people can see on it!!

The Wolf back then was Barry Goldwater and obviously Trump is the wolf this time round, but the fun bit is Hilary  worked on the Goldwater election campaign, and still calls herself a Goldwater Girl.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 19, 2016, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: MoChara on October 18, 2016, 11:14:07 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 18, 2016, 10:57:50 AM
Quote from: MoChara on October 18, 2016, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 02:10:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
So what's going on with Wikileaks and Assange. From what I can gather John Kerry made some threats towards Ecuador that they should extradite him ASAP or face serious consequences. Assanges Internet access has been cut off now by Ecuadorian officials.

This follows the leak of Hilarys Goldman Sachs speeches along with the podesta emails and others. There might be some move in the coming hours where he is removed from the embassy and placed under arrest.

This is all from reading Wikileaks tweets and other insider sources which will either be proved true or false as events take shape.

Goes to show how much the establishment, corporations, media and all their backers want Hilary rather than a Trump or Sanders putting the brakes on their gravy train.

Might all be a ruse by Assange as he might have nothing left on her though from what I've read it should already be over for her. Perhaps if she wasn't running against a buffoon like trump it would be, but then only for Trump running against a corrupt hag like Clinton is he still in the race. Bizarre situation. Hard to believe this is what America has to choose between.

If either of them was running against almost anyone else, this election would be done and dusted.

Worst pair of candidates ever.

This whole thing makes me think of this Malcolm X quote, especially the bit in bold


"It isn't a president who can help or hurt; it is the system. And this system is not just ruling America, it is ruling the world. Nowadays, when a man is running for the President of the United States, he is not running for President of the United States alone; he has to be acceptable to other areas of the world where American influence rules. If Johnson had been running all by himself, he would not have been acceptable to anyone. The only thing that made him acceptable to the world was that the shrewd capitalists, the shrewd imperialists, knew that the only way people would run toward the fox would be if you showed them a wolf. So they created a ghastly alternative. And it had the whole world—including people who call themselves Marxists—hoping that Johnson would beat Goldwater. I have to say this: Those who claim to be enemies of the system were on their hands and knees waiting for Johnson to get elected---because he is supposed to be a man of peace. And at that moment he had troops invading the Congo and South Vietnam! He even has troops in areas where other imperialists have already withdrawn. Peace Corps to Nigeria, mercernaries to the Congo!"

When I view this there is no bit in bold!!! Though strangely I see it has appeared when I have quoted it.

Clear evidence that the Clintons are controlling this board and what people can see on it!!

The Wolf back then was Barry Goldwater and obviously Trump is the wolf this time round, but the fun bit is Hilary  worked on the Goldwater election campaign, and still calls herself a Goldwater Girl.

Was Goldwater that extreme by modern standards? He was an Environmentalist, pro-choice, anti-Religious right and supported legalising marijuana. 

"Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 19, 2016, 12:20:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 AM
Given O'Keefe's record, and that of the Planned Parenthood dude, maybe you should withhold judgement for a wee bit.

1 firing and one resignation the fall out so far.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mayoffs on October 19, 2016, 01:08:22 PM
Not looking good for Trump in the polls ahead of the run in. The allegations of vote rigging are backfiring on him, people are growing tired of his rhetoric, Pence and co barely able to keep hold of the reins. Any other Dem candidate would have blown him out of the water by now with all the ammo he's giving them,  but Hillary's own past issues are keeping Trump in the race.
I agree that these are the worst pair of candidates ever and I'm sticking to what I said before that Hillary will win, not by a huge margin of the popular vote, but she may be forced out of office early.
While I'm not a big fan of the Clintons, I'm angry that Trump is being allowed to carry on with his almost fascist like rhetoric, it's dangerous and borderline criminal and is an insult to the majority of the very people he is supposed to be representing. The only thing Trump has in common with any of his supporters is with a minority who are racists and bigots. His constant use of the term 'Corrupt Hillary' is nothing short of hypocrisy.
Trump has slyly tapped into a large portion of American society that feel unrepresented, trouble is, for them, he's the wrong representative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2016, 12:20:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 AM
Given O'Keefe's record, and that of the Planned Parenthood dude, maybe you should withhold judgement for a wee bit.

1 firing and one resignation the fall out so far.

500,000 dead in Iraq under the last Republican President. The double standards are staggering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 19, 2016, 01:26:46 PM
Id say there will be quite a poisonous atmosphere (even more so than current) in the states the day the election results are announced, regardless of who wins.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 01:34:07 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 19, 2016, 01:26:46 PM
Id say there will be quite a poisonous atmosphere (even more so than current) in the states the day the election results are announced, regardless of who wins.

Look at Trumps tweets when his show wasn't nominated for an Emmy:

(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Trump-emmys-2.jpg)
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Trump-emmys.jpg)
(http://15130-presscdn-0-89.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/trump-2013-2014-emmys.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mayoffs on October 19, 2016, 03:06:07 PM
Imagine what would happen if he was loosing a war? It wouldn't be tweets he'd be firing off
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 03:14:13 PM
Quote from: Mayoffs on October 19, 2016, 03:06:07 PM
Imagine what would happen if he was loosing a war? It wouldn't be tweets he'd be firing off

I bet if he wins the election he will win many Emmys and Oscars. He may even emulate his hero Vlad in being permanently re-elected to power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: MoChara on October 19, 2016, 03:27:10 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 19, 2016, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: MoChara on October 18, 2016, 11:14:07 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 18, 2016, 10:57:50 AM
Quote from: MoChara on October 18, 2016, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 02:10:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 18, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
So what's going on with Wikileaks and Assange. From what I can gather John Kerry made some threats towards Ecuador that they should extradite him ASAP or face serious consequences. Assanges Internet access has been cut off now by Ecuadorian officials.

This follows the leak of Hilarys Goldman Sachs speeches along with the podesta emails and others. There might be some move in the coming hours where he is removed from the embassy and placed under arrest.

This is all from reading Wikileaks tweets and other insider sources which will either be proved true or false as events take shape.

Goes to show how much the establishment, corporations, media and all their backers want Hilary rather than a Trump or Sanders putting the brakes on their gravy train.

Might all be a ruse by Assange as he might have nothing left on her though from what I've read it should already be over for her. Perhaps if she wasn't running against a buffoon like trump it would be, but then only for Trump running against a corrupt hag like Clinton is he still in the race. Bizarre situation. Hard to believe this is what America has to choose between.

If either of them was running against almost anyone else, this election would be done and dusted.

Worst pair of candidates ever.

This whole thing makes me think of this Malcolm X quote, especially the bit in bold


"It isn't a president who can help or hurt; it is the system. And this system is not just ruling America, it is ruling the world. Nowadays, when a man is running for the President of the United States, he is not running for President of the United States alone; he has to be acceptable to other areas of the world where American influence rules. If Johnson had been running all by himself, he would not have been acceptable to anyone. The only thing that made him acceptable to the world was that the shrewd capitalists, the shrewd imperialists, knew that the only way people would run toward the fox would be if you showed them a wolf. So they created a ghastly alternative. And it had the whole world—including people who call themselves Marxists—hoping that Johnson would beat Goldwater. I have to say this: Those who claim to be enemies of the system were on their hands and knees waiting for Johnson to get elected---because he is supposed to be a man of peace. And at that moment he had troops invading the Congo and South Vietnam! He even has troops in areas where other imperialists have already withdrawn. Peace Corps to Nigeria, mercernaries to the Congo!"

When I view this there is no bit in bold!!! Though strangely I see it has appeared when I have quoted it.

Clear evidence that the Clintons are controlling this board and what people can see on it!!

The Wolf back then was Barry Goldwater and obviously Trump is the wolf this time round, but the fun bit is Hilary  worked on the Goldwater election campaign, and still calls herself a Goldwater Girl.

Was Goldwater that extreme by modern standards? He was an Environmentalist, pro-choice, anti-Religious right and supported legalising marijuana. 

"Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have"

I don't claim to be an expert on him but I think it was the fact he pulled the Republican party hard to the right, his most famous quote has to be "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

I'd say you're probably right though compared to the politik of the Republican Party now hes probably not all that extreme.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2016, 06:14:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2016, 12:20:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 AM
Given O'Keefe's record, and that of the Planned Parenthood dude, maybe you should withhold judgement for a wee bit.

1 firing and one resignation the fall out so far.

Who?

Edit: never mind - I have google.

So they got their pound of flesh. Let's hope they don't end like settling later like they had to with the Acorn employee whom they fraudulently stitched up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 19, 2016, 07:32:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 19, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2016, 12:20:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 AM
Given O'Keefe's record, and that of the Planned Parenthood dude, maybe you should withhold judgement for a wee bit.

1 firing and one resignation the fall out so far.

500,000 dead in Iraq under the last Republican President. The double standards are staggering.

How many dead due to Obama not taking Isis seriously? JV my hole! The pres should have set up,no fly zones in Syria and helped the Syrian people from their homeland, Putin is killing Syrians right and left while your hero sits on his hands, the man is useless!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 19, 2016, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2016, 06:14:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2016, 12:20:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 AM
Given O'Keefe's record, and that of the Planned Parenthood dude, maybe you should withhold judgement for a wee bit.

1 firing and one resignation the fall out so far.

Who?

Edit: never mind - I have google.

So they got their pound of flesh. Let's hope they don't end like settling later like they had to with the Acorn employee whom they fraudulently stitched up.

Oh.....this is only the start of it.  According  to some sources Creamer visited the Obama White House 340 times.....this goes all the way to the top.  People are calling for an FBI investigation

For the record CNN got caught editing tape on 3 occasions that I can remember this year alone
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 08:52:40 PM
Quote from: stew on October 19, 2016, 07:32:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 19, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2016, 12:20:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 AM
Given O'Keefe's record, and that of the Planned Parenthood dude, maybe you should withhold judgement for a wee bit.

1 firing and one resignation the fall out so far.

500,000 dead in Iraq under the last Republican President. The double standards are staggering.

How many dead due to Obama not taking Isis seriously? JV my hole! The pres should have set up,no fly zones in Syria and helped the Syrian people from their homeland, Putin is killing Syrians right and left while your hero sits on his hands, the man is useless!

You don't know that ISIS came out of the counter-insurgency after the 2003 Iraq invasion, among other things, do you?

Your Republican heroes had thousands of Americans killed for a lie. Your heroes give every crackpot in the USA who wants one, a machine gun. Don't pretend that you give a fiddler's f*ck about dead Syrians.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2016, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2016, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2016, 06:14:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2016, 12:20:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 AM
Given O'Keefe's record, and that of the Planned Parenthood dude, maybe you should withhold judgement for a wee bit.

1 firing and one resignation the fall out so far.

Who?

Edit: never mind - I have google.

So they got their pound of flesh. Let's hope they don't end like settling later like they had to with the Acorn employee whom they fraudulently stitched up.

Oh.....this is only the start of it.  According  to some sources Creamer visited the Obama White House 340 times.....this goes all the way to the top.  People are calling for an FBI investigation

For the record CNN got caught editing tape on 3 occasions that I can remember this year alone

What goes to the top?

That he worked on Obama's own campaigns? That, as a Dem operative, he met with WH staffers?

Don't worry about the FBI - the GOP will have each committee investigate!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: MoChara on October 19, 2016, 09:42:32 PM
Quote from: muppet

You don't know that ISIS came out of the counter-insurgency after the 2003 Iraq invasion, among other things, do you?

Your Republican heroes had thousands of Americans killed for a lie. Your heroes give every crackpot in the USA who wants one, a machine gun. Don't pretend that you give a fiddler's f*ck about dead Syrians.

I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that wants to look ISIS are America's pitbull. It's no coincidence they are being put out of Iraq when they are getting hammered in Syria, it's a good news story and a desperate throw of the dice militarily in Syria
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 10:45:31 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Fiasco_cover.jpg)

I have recommended the above a few times. It is a fascinating read and gave me hope for the USA rather than the opposite. The problem was not the thinking of the US military.

Most of what has happened in the last 10 years and more was predicted by the Pentagon, as described - before Iraq - by retired Generals (sitting Generals could not speak to journalists). It was ignored by the civilians in charge, the people we now know as the Neo-Cons. ISIS is just the latest incarnation of the counter-insurgency that the Pentagon warned the Neo-Cons would happen, if they went for their 'Shock and Awe', with minimum personnel and prioritised securing oil infrastructure over Sadam's army bases, among other blunders.

They compounded the problem by banning the employment of any former soldiers. Thus you had unemployed fully trained soldiers, with easy access to arms, hating the new regime who offered them no hope, who started to fight back. They evolved, merged and split, and re-emerged and re-merged with whatever radical crackpots were around. ISIS is just the last few years. It will be something else soon enough.

There are people stupid enough to think you can wipe them out, the same as the Russians thought they could wipe of the (American backed) Mujahideen, who then became Al Queda. The Brits also thought for centuries that they could wipe out any Irish rebels.

And people think it is Obama's fault for not going to to wipe them out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 10:48:31 PM
Inevitably: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/trump-wants-plan-to-defeat-isis-in-30-days-if-elected (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/trump-wants-plan-to-defeat-isis-in-30-days-if-elected)

ABC News
"Donald Trump is expected to unveil a plan to end the military sequester - across the the board budget cuts- during a speech in Philadelphia, a day after saying he would ask his to military officials to formulate a plan within his first 30 days in office to defeat ISIS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 19, 2016, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: stew on October 19, 2016, 07:32:24 PM
How many dead due to Obama not taking Isis seriously? JV my hole! The pres should have set up,no fly zones in Syria and helped the Syrian people from their homeland, Putin is killing Syrians right and left while your hero sits on his hands, the man is useless!

Obama is the worst president ever. There are those who just can't admit it.

The american Bertie Ahern. Full of sh**.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 20, 2016, 12:28:56 AM
(http://cdn.twentytwowords.com/wp-content/uploads/funny-protest-signs-25.jpg?23e2bf)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 20, 2016, 01:01:14 AM
I used to love her, I used to love her once, a long long time ago...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/politics/trump-ny1-clintons/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/politics/trump-ny1-clintons/index.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2016, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 20, 2016, 01:01:14 AM
I used to love her, I used to love her once, a long long time ago...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/politics/trump-ny1-clintons/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/politics/trump-ny1-clintons/index.html)

Years ago he said that Paula Jones was a loser .......then he wheeled her out at the last debate


https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/10/09/watch_donald_trump_call_paula_jones_a_loser_in_1998.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 01:44:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 20, 2016, 01:01:14 AM
I used to love her, I used to love her once, a long long time ago...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/politics/trump-ny1-clintons/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/politics/trump-ny1-clintons/index.html)

Years ago he said that Paula Jones was a loser .......then he wheeled her out at the last debate


https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/10/09/watch_donald_trump_call_paula_jones_a_loser_in_1998.html
i hear he's very fond of Obamas half brother
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 20, 2016, 04:04:57 AM
Is it possible that he finally blew it?
Won't accept election results?
I'm sitting at an airport and that shook it up a bit. A real wtf at the bar. That is questioning the the American way, not acceptable. Hillary got a couple of zingers in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 20, 2016, 04:59:59 AM
Well if he hasnt blown it by now dont think that will make one iota of difference
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on October 20, 2016, 05:09:57 AM
He's a bad hombre, muchachos.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 20, 2016, 05:11:48 AM
I watched some of it tonight and my only conclusion would be that Hillary Clinton doesnt give a shit about anything she is espousing, just hungry for the power.

Trump on the other hand is an incoherent buffon, he just spouts whatever is on his deluded mind. He's also completely incompetent as a debater, he could have landed a few blows that would have stuck a few times but he couldnt capitalise on it, worse than useless.

Clinton had him reeling numerous times but it doesnt count for much when its Donald Trump, and her smirks when she did so only add to her dislikeable image
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 20, 2016, 05:15:53 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 20, 2016, 05:09:57 AM
He's a bad hombre, muchachos.

I had quite a laugh at that, tho what about bigly? he had a spate of saying that again.

You felt like he was covering his arse for having said it the first time around, sort of a case of "I meant to say it, its a word and I'll use it again" Quite the lexiconario is MrTrump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 20, 2016, 09:08:45 AM
Lads, I have a scary thought. If Enda Kenny ran in the US election against either of those two, he'd probably win? America, what are you f**king doing to yourself?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mayoffs on October 20, 2016, 09:32:55 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 20, 2016, 04:04:57 AM
Is it possible that he finally blew it?
Won't accept election results?
I'm sitting at an airport and that shook it up a bit. A real wtf at the bar. That is  questioning the the American way, not acceptable. Hillary got a couple of zingers in.

It's all over now, his refusal to accept the result is unprecedented and his praise for Putin because he 'said nice things about me' will be hard to accept for many moderate Reps. Says a lot about the guy's state of mind also. Clinton hammered in a few more nails with comments like Trump would be Putins puppet.
Clinton on the other hand is a corporate puppet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2016, 10:14:55 AM
Quote from: Mayoffs on October 20, 2016, 09:32:55 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 20, 2016, 04:04:57 AM
Is it possible that he finally blew it?
Won't accept election results?
I'm sitting at an airport and that shook it up a bit. A real wtf at the bar. That is  questioning the the American way, not acceptable. Hillary got a couple of zingers in.

It's all over now, his refusal to accept the result is unprecedented and his praise for Putin because he 'said nice things about me' will be hard to accept for many moderate Reps. Says a lot about the guy's state of mind also. Clinton hammered in a few more nails with comments like Trump would be Putins puppet.
Clinton on the other hand is a corporate puppet.

Typically that would be true, but Podestas wrote an email where he advocates illegals voting in the election. The Democrats are truly a bunch of odious cvnts, and Trump is not far behind

http://www.puppetstringnews.com/blog/wikileaks-podesta-says-its-ok-for-illegals-with-a-driver-license-to-vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 20, 2016, 10:41:32 AM
Paddy Power have already paid out on Hillary...

Unfortunately I don't fancy the mood in the US when the result is announced. There is every chance there will be violence!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 20, 2016, 10:44:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 10:14:55 AM
Quote from: Mayoffs on October 20, 2016, 09:32:55 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 20, 2016, 04:04:57 AM
Is it possible that he finally blew it?
Won't accept election results?
I'm sitting at an airport and that shook it up a bit. A real wtf at the bar. That is  questioning the the American way, not acceptable. Hillary got a couple of zingers in.

It's all over now, his refusal to accept the result is unprecedented and his praise for Putin because he 'said nice things about me' will be hard to accept for many moderate Reps. Says a lot about the guy's state of mind also. Clinton hammered in a few more nails with comments like Trump would be Putins puppet.
Clinton on the other hand is a corporate puppet.

Typically that would be true, but Podestas wrote an email where he advocates illegals voting in the election. The Democrats are truly a bunch of odious cvnts, and Trump is not far behind

http://www.puppetstringnews.com/blog/wikileaks-podesta-says-its-ok-for-illegals-with-a-driver-license-to-vote

HAHA very good! You think if that if Republicans could get votes from illegal immigrants this way they wouldn't be doing it??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: MoChara on October 20, 2016, 10:59:03 AM
I'm wondering what the Wikileaks Email dump on the 1st Nov will bring up, I'd say Hilary's arse is chewing her knickers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 20, 2016, 11:04:28 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 20, 2016, 10:41:32 AM
Paddy Power have already paid out on Hillary...

Unfortunately I don't fancy the mood in the US when the result is announced. There is every chance there will be violence!!

Bluecollar whites are drinking themselves to death in their 50s. Trump brings up Nafta and stagnation and Clinton says there is no problem with the economy. The political system is broken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAoA6zXyWY8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2016, 11:15:12 AM
Quote from: MoChara on October 20, 2016, 10:59:03 AM
I'm wondering what the Wikileaks Email dump on the 1st Nov will bring up, I'd say Hilary's arse is chewing her knickers.

So you think it's a joke that the head of Hillarys campaign is advocating voter fraud on a massive scale?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2016, 11:18:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 10:14:55 AM
Quote from: Mayoffs on October 20, 2016, 09:32:55 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 20, 2016, 04:04:57 AM
Is it possible that he finally blew it?
Won't accept election results?
I'm sitting at an airport and that shook it up a bit. A real wtf at the bar. That is  questioning the the American way, not acceptable. Hillary got a couple of zingers in.

It's all over now, his refusal to accept the result is unprecedented and his praise for Putin because he 'said nice things about me' will be hard to accept for many moderate Reps. Says a lot about the guy's state of mind also. Clinton hammered in a few more nails with comments like Trump would be Putins puppet.
Clinton on the other hand is a corporate puppet.

Typically that would be true, but Podestas wrote an email where he advocates illegals voting in the election. The Democrats are truly a bunch of odious cvnts, and Trump is not far behind

http://www.puppetstringnews.com/blog/wikileaks-podesta-says-its-ok-for-illegals-with-a-driver-license-to-vote

WHERE does Podesta advocate illegals voting??

First, that piece doesn't even indicate which words are Podesta's and which are their own "commentary".

Podesta's words, from Gateway Pundit (a source you've quoted here before) are:

I think Teddy's idea scratches the itch, is pretty safe and uncomplicated.
On the picture ID, the one thing I have thought of in that space is that if you show up on Election Day with a drivers license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in Federal elections

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/wikileaks-podesta-says-ok-illegals-vote-drivers-licence/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/wikileaks-podesta-says-ok-illegals-vote-drivers-licence/)

Second, nowhere in that quote or in the rest of the piece are illegals mentioned nor is any context given suggesting that he is referring to illegals. If its out there, please post it.

The fact is that if you are not listed on the voter list when you show up but are sure you've registered, in most places you can place a provisional ballot on the day. Your status is then checked afterwards before your vote is counted. Would you not expect a driver's license to be a form of ID you'd show?

A smaller number of states allow same day registration. California is still in the process of implementing it.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/same-day-registration.aspx (http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/same-day-registration.aspx)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 20, 2016, 11:21:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 11:15:12 AM
Quote from: MoChara on October 20, 2016, 10:59:03 AM
I'm wondering what the Wikileaks Email dump on the 1st Nov will bring up, I'd say Hilary's arse is chewing her knickers.

So you think it's a joke that the head of Hillarys campaign is advocating voter fraud on a massive scale?

This is what he said:

'I think Teddy's idea scratches the itch, is pretty safe and uncomplicated.
On the picture ID, the one thing I have thought of in that space is that if you show up on Election Day with a drivers license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in Federal elections.'

You would have great difficulty persuading anyone, in any court, that this was 'advocating voter fraud on a massive scale' unless you are completely paranoid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2016, 11:41:17 AM
"If you show up on Election Day with a driver's license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in federal elections."

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2016, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 11:41:17 AM
"If you show up on Election Day with a driver's license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in federal elections."

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

And if you are not on the roll, your vote is not counted until your attestation is checked. Its called a provisional ballot.

Seriously, there is plenty of cause for complaint about Hillary without making shit up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 20, 2016, 11:58:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 11:15:12 AM
Quote from: MoChara on October 20, 2016, 10:59:03 AM
I'm wondering what the Wikileaks Email dump on the 1st Nov will bring up, I'd say Hilary's arse is chewing her knickers.

So you think it's a joke that the head of Hillarys campaign is advocating voter fraud on a massive scale?

I think you're missing the irony in the fact that the entire process from the Primary's to the General to the result and whatever comes after it is all just a huge stinking joke... if you didn't laugh you'd find it difficult to get out of bed in the morning!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2016, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 20, 2016, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 11:41:17 AM
"If you show up on Election Day with a driver's license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in federal elections."

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

And if you are not on the roll, your vote is not counted until your attestation is checked. Its called a provisional ballot.

Seriously, there is plenty of cause for complaint about Hillary without making shit up.

Attestation is on the honor system in some states

And given Clintons track record, especially this campaign, I wouldn't put anything past them.....the have form
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2016, 12:20:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 20, 2016, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 11:41:17 AM
"If you show up on Election Day with a driver's license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in federal elections."

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

And if you are not on the roll, your vote is not counted until your attestation is checked. Its called a provisional ballot.

Seriously, there is plenty of cause for complaint about Hillary without making shit up.

Attestation is on the honor system in some states

And given Clintons track record, especially this campaign, I wouldn't put anything past them.....the have form

It still has to be checked.

If it is so easy, why has there been no evidence uncovered so far?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2016, 12:29:50 PM
I would add, whitey, should you not be congratulating Podesta, then, for advocating that a state ID such as drivers license be required?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 20, 2016, 10:41:32 AM
Paddy Power have already paid out on Hillary...

Unfortunately I don't fancy the mood in the US when the result is announced. There is every chance there will be violence!!
there is no chance of violence .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on October 20, 2016, 01:26:54 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14692056_10154647637627264_852054451706319916_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9)


Interesting graphic that illustrates what I said a few pages back. As the white demographic goes so goes the GOP.

Not sure about the source but I'd say it's close enough. What the underlying reasons for it are up for debate. Does lower taxes and limited government not appeal to non-Europeans and women?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 20, 2016, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 20, 2016, 10:41:32 AM
Paddy Power have already paid out on Hillary...

Unfortunately I don't fancy the mood in the US when the result is announced. There is every chance there will be violence!!
there is no chance of violence .

Well there has already been violence from the Trump crowd during the GE & Primaries what makes you think the depolorables won't start their "revolution" if they don't get their own way?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
the problem with that is in a state like California there are about 3/4 of million illegals who have got valid drivers licenses  since the start of 2015 so a valid id is not a proof of citizenship
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
the problem with that is in a state like California there are about 3/4 of million illegals who have got valid drivers licenses  since the start of 2015 so a valid id is not a proof of citizenship

But he's clearly not talking about non-citizens.  Nor is he advocating that non-citizens should vote fraudulently. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2016, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
the problem with that is in a state like California there are about 3/4 of million illegals who have got valid drivers licenses  since the start of 2015 so a valid id is not a proof of citizenship

But he's clearly not talking about non-citizens.  Nor is he advocating that non-citizens should vote fraudulently.

When a paid consultant for the Clinton campaign states (on tape) "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker", I am under no illusions that these people will do whatever it takes to win (or steal) the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 04:09:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
the problem with that is in a state like California there are about 3/4 of million illegals who have got valid drivers licenses  since the start of 2015 so a valid id is not a proof of citizenship

But he's clearly not talking about non-citizens.  Nor is he advocating that non-citizens should vote fraudulently.

When a paid consultant for the Clinton campaign states (on tape) "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker", I am under no illusions that these people will do whatever it takes to win (or steal) the election

There's nothing in the wikileaks e-mails that suggests this though.   As for the taped bit, it depends on the context in which it occurred.  It could be evidence of something, or it could be nothing.  It depends on what it was the' legal and ethics people' had said that was under discussion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2016, 04:25:39 PM
Lol....keep denying
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 20, 2016, 04:26:49 PM
Another sexual harassment accuser giving a Press Conference right now. . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 04:25:39 PM
Lol....keep denying

Give us something that proves anything and I'll stop.

American legal people are paid to offer advice on whether certain actions by individuals/companies could result in a legal challenge.  They err on the side of caution (I see this in my own job).  The taped quote could have been in response to the legal people saying that a particular tactic might be challenged by Repubs in court.  Responding to such a point by "it doesn't matter what the legal people say, we need to win" could simply be a rejection of legal advice. It isn't therefore illegal or fraudulent. 

Is that what happened? I have no idea.  But you have no idea about whether the quote occurred in a context that makes it shady or fraudulent.  Without the context, the quote is evidence of nothing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: MoChara on October 20, 2016, 05:00:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 11:15:12 AM
Quote from: MoChara on October 20, 2016, 10:59:03 AM
I'm wondering what the Wikileaks Email dump on the 1st Nov will bring up, I'd say Hilary's arse is chewing her knickers.

So you think it's a joke that the head of Hillarys campaign is advocating voter fraud on a massive scale?

1) I never actually made a joke  B) I couldn't give a shit who gets elected in America, either way its bad for the rest of the world and iii) if you didn't laugh at the travesty that is US politics you'd cry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2016, 05:03:22 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 04:25:39 PM
Lol....keep denying

Give us something that proves anything and I'll stop.

American legal people are paid to offer advice on whether certain actions by individuals/companies could result in a legal challenge.  They err on the side of caution (I see this in my own job).  The taped quote could have been in response to the legal people saying that a particular tactic might be challenged by Repubs in court.  Responding to such a point by "it doesn't matter what the legal people say, we need to win" could simply be a rejection of legal advice. It isn't therefore illegal or fraudulent. 

Is that what happened? I have no idea.  But you have no idea about whether the quote occurred in a context that makes it shady or fraudulent.  Without the context, the quote is evidence of nothing.

Why was he fired if he did nothing wrong?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 06:20:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 05:03:22 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 04:25:39 PM
Lol....keep denying

Give us something that proves anything and I'll stop.

American legal people are paid to offer advice on whether certain actions by individuals/companies could result in a legal challenge.  They err on the side of caution (I see this in my own job).  The taped quote could have been in response to the legal people saying that a particular tactic might be challenged by Repubs in court.  Responding to such a point by "it doesn't matter what the legal people say, we need to win" could simply be a rejection of legal advice. It isn't therefore illegal or fraudulent. 

Is that what happened? I have no idea.  But you have no idea about whether the quote occurred in a context that makes it shady or fraudulent.  Without the context, the quote is evidence of nothing.

Why was he fired if he did nothing wrong?

I don't know why he was fired.  Do you?   Perhaps he was fired because the quote occurred in  a context in which he was advocating doing something dodgy. Perhaps he was fired because the quote, even if not in such a context, is still a gift to Repubs.

In any event, what this guy said has nothing to do with what Podesta said in the e-mail chain which is clearly not recommending voter fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 20, 2016, 08:03:33 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 20, 2016, 01:26:54 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14692056_10154647637627264_852054451706319916_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9)


Interesting graphic that illustrates what I said a few pages back. As the white demographic goes so goes the GOP.

Not sure about the source but I'd say it's close enough. What the underlying reasons for it are up for debate. Does lower taxes and limited government not appeal to non-Europeans and women?
It looks like white society is in crisis. White women majority Trump ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 20, 2016, 10:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
the problem with that is in a state like California there are about 3/4 of million illegals who have got valid drivers licenses  since the start of 2015 so a valid id is not a proof of citizenship

But he's clearly not talking about non-citizens.  Nor is he advocating that non-citizens should vote fraudulently.

When a paid consultant for the Clinton campaign states (on tape) "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker", I am under no illusions that these people will do whatever it takes to win (or steal) the election

Have you not just described the American Way?

Why does your conscience only apply to Hillary? Also, as was suggested earlier, you should read the rest of the emails in the conversation. The idea went nowhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 11:58:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 20, 2016, 08:03:33 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 20, 2016, 01:26:54 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14692056_10154647637627264_852054451706319916_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9)


Interesting graphic that illustrates what I said a few pages back. As the white demographic goes so goes the GOP.

Not sure about the source but I'd say it's close enough. What the underlying reasons for it are up for debate. Does lower taxes and limited government not appeal to non-Europeans and women?
It looks like white society is in crisis. White women majority Trump ?
what the maps show me are that a lot of white people feel the democrat party do not represent them in any way and the democrats are all about keeping power and will pander to any groups to do so .Hillary will call millions of citizens of the country deplorable but  would say that people here living illegally are the salt of the earth , all pandering to the changing demographics of the country but not sincere about it . Trump is right about one thing the Washington dc swamp needs to be drained of all these fakes on all sides.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 21, 2016, 12:12:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 20, 2016, 10:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
the problem with that is in a state like California there are about 3/4 of million illegals who have got valid drivers licenses  since the start of 2015 so a valid id is not a proof of citizenship

But he's clearly not talking about non-citizens.  Nor is he advocating that non-citizens should vote fraudulently.

When a paid consultant for the Clinton campaign states (on tape) "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker", I am under no illusions that these people will do whatever it takes to win (or steal) the election

Have you not just described the American Way?

Why does your conscience only apply to Hillary? Also, as was suggested earlier, you should read the rest of the emails in the conversation. The idea went nowhere.

It's all open to interpretation.....he made a statement that could be construed that he is encouraging voter fraud. You give him the benefit of the doubt, I don't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 21, 2016, 02:21:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 11:58:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 20, 2016, 08:03:33 PM

It looks like white society is in crisis. White women majority Trump ?
what the maps show me are that a lot of white people feel the democrat party do not represent them in any way and the democrats are all about keeping power and will pander to any groups to do so .Hillary will call millions of citizens of the country deplorable but  would say that people here living illegally are the salt of the earth , all pandering to the changing demographics of the country but not sincere about it . Trump is right about one thing the Washington dc swamp needs to be drained of all these fakes on all sides.

Or...

The GOP has hooked their wagon to the bitter, resentful white demographic who are upset that the nature of the country is changing and their white, christian, homophobic position of superiority is on the wane as society becomes more enlightened.

Did you miss the GOP's post-2012 navel gazing and mea culpa about their narrowing appeal and the manner in which their rhetoric and policies repels minorities, gays, women and so on and on?

The pity for them is that their base are not quite ready to repudiate those positions.

If the Dems are not sincere, why, for example, did Obama embrace the Dreamers program? Why did he end Don't Ask Don't Tell and stop defending DOMA, an important step in the eventual supreme court decision on gay marriage?

Political parties pander. Its what they do. And then they try to carry out some of the stuff they run on. But the difference is that the Democrats, at least socially, are on the right side of history and the GOP are dying along with their dwindling, aging white base.

The days of the white christian male being the be all and end all of the US citizen are gone. Good riddance. If the GOP can't sort themselves out, good riddance to them too as a national party.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 21, 2016, 02:43:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 02:21:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 11:58:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 20, 2016, 08:03:33 PM

It looks like white society is in crisis. White women majority Trump ?
what the maps show me are that a lot of white people feel the democrat party do not represent them in any way and the democrats are all about keeping power and will pander to any groups to do so .Hillary will call millions of citizens of the country deplorable but  would say that people here living illegally are the salt of the earth , all pandering to the changing demographics of the country but not sincere about it . Trump is right about one thing the Washington dc swamp needs to be drained of all these fakes on all sides.

Or...

The GOP has hooked their wagon to the bitter, resentful white demographic who are upset that the nature of the country is changing and their white, christian, homophobic position of superiority is on the wane as society becomes more enlightened.

Did you miss the GOP's post-2012 navel gazing and mea culpa about their narrowing appeal and the manner in which their rhetoric and policies repels minorities, gays, women and so on and on?

The pity for them is that their base are not quite ready to repudiate those positions.

If the Dems are not sincere, why, for example, did Obama embrace the Dreamers program? Why did he end Don't Ask Don't Tell and stop defending DOMA, an important step in the eventual supreme court decision on gay marriage?

Political parties pander. Its what they do. And then they try to carry out some of the stuff they run on. But the difference is that the Democrats, at least socially, are on the right side of history and the GOP are dying along with their dwindling, aging white base.

The days of the white christian male being the be all and end all of the US citizen are gone. Good riddance. If the GOP can't sort themselves out, good riddance to them too as a national party.
yeah. The GOP leadership can't deliver tax cuts any longer. Maybe the gringos think they can. The leadership has spent too long Koch sucking.

They betrayed the Base and when the Wolf turned up this year he walked off with them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 21, 2016, 03:09:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 02:21:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 11:58:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 20, 2016, 08:03:33 PM

It looks like white society is in crisis. White women majority Trump ?
what the maps show me are that a lot of white people feel the democrat party do not represent them in any way and the democrats are all about keeping power and will pander to any groups to do so .Hillary will call millions of citizens of the country deplorable but  would say that people here living illegally are the salt of the earth , all pandering to the changing demographics of the country but not sincere about it . Trump is right about one thing the Washington dc swamp needs to be drained of all these fakes on all sides.

Or...

The GOP has hooked their wagon to the bitter, resentful white demographic who are upset that the nature of the country is changing and their white, christian, homophobic position of superiority is on the wane as society becomes more enlightened.

Did you miss the GOP's post-2012 navel gazing and mea culpa about their narrowing appeal and the manner in which their rhetoric and policies repels minorities, gays, women and so on and on?

The pity for them is that their base are not quite ready to repudiate those positions.

If the Dems are not sincere, why, for example, did Obama embrace the Dreamers program? Why did he end Don't Ask Don't Tell and stop defending DOMA, an important step in the eventual supreme court decision on gay marriage?

Political parties pander. Its what they do. And then they try to carry out some of the stuff they run on. But the difference is that the Democrats, at least socially, are on the right side of history and the GOP are dying along with their dwindling, aging white base.

The days of the white christian male being the be all and end all of the US citizen are gone. Good riddance. If the GOP can't sort themselves out, good riddance to them too as a national party.
i don't give a flying Fack about the Republican Party and neither do most of the people in this poll imo that's why trump won the primary .as usual if u don't agree with the dems u are a rascist,homophobe or an uneducated fool . Obama probably believed in his policies at least .Hillary on the other hand is all about the power and in the long run might be a good thing for the conservative movement and hopefully runs again in four years and the country's eyes are opened by then and there is a good conservative alternative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 21, 2016, 05:22:13 AM
What would be the policies of a "good conservative alternative"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 21, 2016, 06:09:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2016, 12:12:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 20, 2016, 10:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
the problem with that is in a state like California there are about 3/4 of million illegals who have got valid drivers licenses  since the start of 2015 so a valid id is not a proof of citizenship

But he's clearly not talking about non-citizens.  Nor is he advocating that non-citizens should vote fraudulently.

When a paid consultant for the Clinton campaign states (on tape) "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker", I am under no illusions that these people will do whatever it takes to win (or steal) the election

Have you not just described the American Way?

Why does your conscience only apply to Hillary? Also, as was suggested earlier, you should read the rest of the emails in the conversation. The idea went nowhere.

It's all open to interpretation.....he made a statement that could be construed that he is encouraging voter fraud. You give him the benefit of the doubt, I don't.


The law gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. At least it should.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 21, 2016, 08:03:52 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 21, 2016, 06:09:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2016, 12:12:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 20, 2016, 10:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
the problem with that is in a state like California there are about 3/4 of million illegals who have got valid drivers licenses  since the start of 2015 so a valid id is not a proof of citizenship

But he's clearly not talking about non-citizens.  Nor is he advocating that non-citizens should vote fraudulently.

When a paid consultant for the Clinton campaign states (on tape) "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker", I am under no illusions that these people will do whatever it takes to win (or steal) the election

Have you not just described the American Way?

Why does your conscience only apply to Hillary? Also, as was suggested earlier, you should read the rest of the emails in the conversation. The idea went nowhere.

It's all open to interpretation.....he made a statement that could be construed that he is encouraging voter fraud. You give him the benefit of the doubt, I don't.


The law gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. At least it should.
When did you arrive on the planet, Muppet? Did you have a nice journey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 21, 2016, 09:04:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 21, 2016, 06:09:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2016, 12:12:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 20, 2016, 10:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2016, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088 (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/17088)

On the Podesta e-mail thing....read the rest of the thread of e-mails from the wikileak source page instead of the right-wing spin sites. 

The discussion is about voter turnout and how a poorly designed voter registration system is to blame for relatively low voter turnout.   Podesta's suggestion is simply that a voter who hasn't officially registered to vote prior to election day can still vote (and so it's not too late to get unregistered dem voters to the polls).  No-one is talking about voter fraud or non-citizens voting.
the problem with that is in a state like California there are about 3/4 of million illegals who have got valid drivers licenses  since the start of 2015 so a valid id is not a proof of citizenship

But he's clearly not talking about non-citizens.  Nor is he advocating that non-citizens should vote fraudulently.

When a paid consultant for the Clinton campaign states (on tape) "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker", I am under no illusions that these people will do whatever it takes to win (or steal) the election

Have you not just described the American Way?

Why does your conscience only apply to Hillary? Also, as was suggested earlier, you should read the rest of the emails in the conversation. The idea went nowhere.

It's all open to interpretation.....he made a statement that could be construed that he is encouraging voter fraud. You give him the benefit of the doubt, I don't.


The law gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. At least it should.

Correct....and he should be given an opportunity to explain his comments, under oath, in front of a Congress. (unless he decides to plead the fifth like some of Hillarys other henchmen)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 21, 2016, 10:56:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 21, 2016, 03:09:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 02:21:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2016, 11:58:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 20, 2016, 08:03:33 PM

It looks like white society is in crisis. White women majority Trump ?
what the maps show me are that a lot of white people feel the democrat party do not represent them in any way and the democrats are all about keeping power and will pander to any groups to do so .Hillary will call millions of citizens of the country deplorable but  would say that people here living illegally are the salt of the earth , all pandering to the changing demographics of the country but not sincere about it . Trump is right about one thing the Washington dc swamp needs to be drained of all these fakes on all sides.

Or...

The GOP has hooked their wagon to the bitter, resentful white demographic who are upset that the nature of the country is changing and their white, christian, homophobic position of superiority is on the wane as society becomes more enlightened.

Did you miss the GOP's post-2012 navel gazing and mea culpa about their narrowing appeal and the manner in which their rhetoric and policies repels minorities, gays, women and so on and on?

The pity for them is that their base are not quite ready to repudiate those positions.

If the Dems are not sincere, why, for example, did Obama embrace the Dreamers program? Why did he end Don't Ask Don't Tell and stop defending DOMA, an important step in the eventual supreme court decision on gay marriage?

Political parties pander. Its what they do. And then they try to carry out some of the stuff they run on. But the difference is that the Democrats, at least socially, are on the right side of history and the GOP are dying along with their dwindling, aging white base.

The days of the white christian male being the be all and end all of the US citizen are gone. Good riddance. If the GOP can't sort themselves out, good riddance to them too as a national party.
i don't give a flying Fack about the Republican Party and neither do most of the people in this poll imo that's why trump won the primary .as usual if u don't agree with the dems u are a rascist,homophobe or an uneducated fool . Obama probably believed in his policies at least .Hillary on the other hand is all about the power and in the long run might be a good thing for the conservative movement and hopefully runs again in four years and the country's eyes are opened by then and there is a good conservative alternative.

I didn't say anyone who disagreed with the Dems is a "racist, homophobe or uneducated fool."

I said the GOP had, through rhetoric and policies, bet their electoral success on fomenting and capitalizing on the resentments of white christians.

Worked for a while, but the problem was that societal evolution, culturally and demographically,  meant their resentment politics would ultimately remain, mostly, in the realm of rhetoric - society moved on. The logical endpoint was Trump, but if the GOP hadn't laid the groundwork, Trump couldn't have happened.

As for Hillary's bona fides, well luckily for you it looks like we are about to have, at least, a four year experiment to test it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 21, 2016, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 21, 2016, 05:22:13 AM
What would be the policies of a "good conservative alternative"?
Lowish taxes
Prudent budget management
Support for SMEs
Help after natural disasters
Proper Financial regulation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 21, 2016, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 21, 2016, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 21, 2016, 05:22:13 AM
What would be the policies of a "good conservative alternative"?
Lowish taxes
Prudent budget management
Support for SMEs
Help after natural disasters
Proper Financial regulation

This guy would make a great candidate:Charlie Baker.

I heard him speak at an event last year and he's exactly what the country needs


www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/384969/


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 21, 2016, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2016, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 21, 2016, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 21, 2016, 05:22:13 AM
What would be the policies of a "good conservative alternative"?
Lowish taxes
Prudent budget management
Support for SMEs
Help after natural disasters
Proper Financial regulation

This guy would make a great candidate:Charlie Baker.

I heard him speak at an event last year and he's exactly what the country needs


www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/384969/

Problem is that he would not get anywhere in a GOP presidential primary without repudiating the more liberal aspects of his views. As the piece says, in Kansas, he would be a Democrat!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 21, 2016, 03:13:36 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 20, 2016, 01:26:54 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14692056_10154647637627264_852054451706319916_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9)


Interesting graphic that illustrates what I said a few pages back. As the white demographic goes so goes the GOP.

Not sure about the source but I'd say it's close enough. What the underlying reasons for it are up for debate. Does lower taxes and limited government not appeal to non-Europeans and women?
Or to ask the same question another way does minimising social care and non-regulation of multi-nationals appeal to Europeans and men.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 21, 2016, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 21, 2016, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 21, 2016, 05:22:13 AM
What would be the policies of a "good conservative alternative"?
Lowish taxes
Prudent budget management
Support for SMEs
Help after natural disasters
Proper Financial regulation

not sure which candidate ever has proposed something other than that.

Lowish taxes- what do you mean here? low income taxes for low middle or high earners- or all three. Do you mean reducing corporation tax again. What does your candidate remove from government spending to not only have the lower tax but also to repay the debt in this prudent budget management. Hundreds of years of economic data shows that additional government spending on infrastructure, healthcare and education boosts an economy to growth meaning the budget balances itself- is that what you're looking for?

Support for SMEs- what candidate/ party ever didn't? What are you looking for that you don't already have?

Help after natural disasters? see the last point.

Proper financial regulation. Comedy- the conservatives have refused to elect SEC board members meaning that no financial regulation changes are even possible right now. Which politician can you name that understands the current financial system let alone propose changes. They are so heavily reliant on their fund raisers that the lobbyists don't even have to put this on the table for meetings.

And just in case I'm not being clear- this is not a post against any candidate, conservative or otherwise, it is symptomatic of the entire political process in the US. Root and branch clear out including but not limited to reversal of citizens united, public clarity and population based caps on campaign contributions, conflict of interest voting bans, term limits, and bans on fundraising while in office, that'll shake it up pretty handy.

Current system is designed to protect those in power, and this applies to the political, tax and lobbying legislation also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 21, 2016, 04:56:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.
the wedge issues were guns gays and god and they couldn't do it any more this time around.
Evangelicals are 90m . They have been shafted right, left and centre since 1980
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.

The liberals plan is to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator factor by beating down good hard working folk and assimilating them by force feeding shit popular culture such as rap. That's why you have all these guilt trip privilege assholes.

Your kids not smart enough to get into college or get a job? No worries - we have affirmative action plans to ensure that they do to the detriment of some other kid who gets there on merit

Don't have healthcare that you can pay for? No worries - we'll set up a plan which will allow you to thrive and support ALL of your illegitimate children while some other hard working schmuck picks up the tab

Don't want to parent and take responsibility for your child? No sweat - we'll make sure we fund these mothers and encourage more of them to do the same to ensure the birth rate increases while those working to support these folk don't have time for their families

You're seeing the results happen before your eyes. The destruction of a functioning society.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 21, 2016, 07:01:30 PM
Foxy,

The problem is the people at the top.
Rap is neither here nor there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 21, 2016, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.

The liberals plan is to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator factor by beating down good hard working folk and assimilating them by force feeding shit popular culture such as rap. That's why you have all these guilt trip privilege assholes.

Your kids not smart enough to get into college or get a job? No worries - we have affirmative action plans to ensure that they do to the detriment of some other kid who gets there on merit

Don't have healthcare that you can pay for? No worries - we'll set up a plan which will allow you to thrive and support ALL of your illegitimate children while some other hard working schmuck picks up the tab

Don't want to parent and take responsibility for your child? No sweat - we'll make sure we fund these mothers and encourage more of them to do the same to ensure the birth rate increases while those working to support these folk don't have time for their families

You're seeing the results happen before your eyes. The destruction of a functioning society.

This is Sinn Fein policy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 21, 2016, 10:11:18 PM
Fun experiment: as soon as you see "Foxcommander" in front of a post, read his post in the voice of Emperor Palpatine. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 10:20:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 21, 2016, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.

The liberals plan is to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator factor by beating down good hard working folk and assimilating them by force feeding shit popular culture such as rap. That's why you have all these guilt trip privilege assholes.

Your kids not smart enough to get into college or get a job? No worries - we have affirmative action plans to ensure that they do to the detriment of some other kid who gets there on merit

Don't have healthcare that you can pay for? No worries - we'll set up a plan which will allow you to thrive and support ALL of your illegitimate children while some other hard working schmuck picks up the tab

Don't want to parent and take responsibility for your child? No sweat - we'll make sure we fund these mothers and encourage more of them to do the same to ensure the birth rate increases while those working to support these folk don't have time for their families

You're seeing the results happen before your eyes. The destruction of a functioning society.

This is Sinn Fein policy.

I didn't know Obama was a shinner. Or Enda for that matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 10:21:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 21, 2016, 10:11:18 PM
Fun experiment: as soon as you see "Foxcommander" in front of a post, read his post in the voice of Emperor Palpatine.

Destroy all liberals. They are vermin.

;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2016, 11:26:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.

The liberals plan is to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator factor by beating down good hard working folk and assimilating them by force feeding shit popular culture such as rap. That's why you have all these guilt trip privilege assholes.

Your kids not smart enough to get into college or get a job? No worries - we have affirmative action plans to ensure that they do to the detriment of some other kid who gets there on merit

Don't have healthcare that you can pay for? No worries - we'll set up a plan which will allow you to thrive and support ALL of your illegitimate children while some other hard working schmuck picks up the tab

Don't want to parent and take responsibility for your child? No sweat - we'll make sure we fund these mothers and encourage more of them to do the same to ensure the birth rate increases while those working to support these folk don't have time for their families

You're seeing the results happen before your eyes. The destruction of a functioning society.

Rap music... affirmative action... blacks and police.... I'll give you this foxcommander, you're consistent in the small number of issues that trouble you and motivate you to contribute on US politics here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2016, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 10:20:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 21, 2016, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.

The liberals plan is to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator factor by beating down good hard working folk and assimilating them by force feeding shit popular culture such as rap. That's why you have all these guilt trip privilege assholes.

Your kids not smart enough to get into college or get a job? No worries - we have affirmative action plans to ensure that they do to the detriment of some other kid who gets there on merit

Don't have healthcare that you can pay for? No worries - we'll set up a plan which will allow you to thrive and support ALL of your illegitimate children while some other hard working schmuck picks up the tab

Don't want to parent and take responsibility for your child? No sweat - we'll make sure we fund these mothers and encourage more of them to do the same to ensure the birth rate increases while those working to support these folk don't have time for their families

You're seeing the results happen before your eyes. The destruction of a functioning society.

This is Sinn Fein policy.

I didn't know Obama was a shinner. Or Enda for that matter.

They're not, but you are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 22, 2016, 09:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2016, 11:26:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.

The liberals plan is to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator factor by beating down good hard working folk and assimilating them by force feeding shit popular culture such as rap. That's why you have all these guilt trip privilege assholes.

Your kids not smart enough to get into college or get a job? No worries - we have affirmative action plans to ensure that they do to the detriment of some other kid who gets there on merit

Don't have healthcare that you can pay for? No worries - we'll set up a plan which will allow you to thrive and support ALL of your illegitimate children while some other hard working schmuck picks up the tab

Don't want to parent and take responsibility for your child? No sweat - we'll make sure we fund these mothers and encourage more of them to do the same to ensure the birth rate increases while those working to support these folk don't have time for their families

You're seeing the results happen before your eyes. The destruction of a functioning society.

Rap music... affirmative action... blacks and police.... I'll give you this foxcommander, you're consistent in the small number of issues that trouble you and motivate you to contribute on US politics here.

Yet again you apply your own filter to my comments. Not sure how you managed it but perhaps you realise that those you listed (minus the police) are also problems within the American society that no-one wants to address properly. And don't forget BLM.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 22, 2016, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2016, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 10:20:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 21, 2016, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.

The liberals plan is to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator factor by beating down good hard working folk and assimilating them by force feeding shit popular culture such as rap. That's why you have all these guilt trip privilege assholes.

Your kids not smart enough to get into college or get a job? No worries - we have affirmative action plans to ensure that they do to the detriment of some other kid who gets there on merit

Don't have healthcare that you can pay for? No worries - we'll set up a plan which will allow you to thrive and support ALL of your illegitimate children while some other hard working schmuck picks up the tab

Don't want to parent and take responsibility for your child? No sweat - we'll make sure we fund these mothers and encourage more of them to do the same to ensure the birth rate increases while those working to support these folk don't have time for their families

You're seeing the results happen before your eyes. The destruction of a functioning society.

This is Sinn Fein policy.

I didn't know Obama was a shinner. Or Enda for that matter.

They're not, but you are.

oh dear god - is that how you defend Obama and Enda?
You're Rossfanny in disguise now? Run out of material have we?
poor show Muppet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2016, 09:41:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 22, 2016, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2016, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 10:20:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 21, 2016, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.

The liberals plan is to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator factor by beating down good hard working folk and assimilating them by force feeding shit popular culture such as rap. That's why you have all these guilt trip privilege assholes.

Your kids not smart enough to get into college or get a job? No worries - we have affirmative action plans to ensure that they do to the detriment of some other kid who gets there on merit

Don't have healthcare that you can pay for? No worries - we'll set up a plan which will allow you to thrive and support ALL of your illegitimate children while some other hard working schmuck picks up the tab

Don't want to parent and take responsibility for your child? No sweat - we'll make sure we fund these mothers and encourage more of them to do the same to ensure the birth rate increases while those working to support these folk don't have time for their families

You're seeing the results happen before your eyes. The destruction of a functioning society.

This is Sinn Fein policy.

I didn't know Obama was a shinner. Or Enda for that matter.

They're not, but you are.

oh dear god - is that how you defend Obama and Enda?
You're Rossfanny in disguise now? Run out of material have we?
poor show Muppet.

Material?

You are raging against policies on one side of the ocean, that you champion on the other.

Material, debate or even discussion is pointless in the face of such flexible principles.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2016, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 22, 2016, 09:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2016, 11:26:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
Not when those "Europeans" have been convinced that the social safety net is slanted to benefit minorities. And also that liberals want to take their guns away. And turn their kids gay. And so on and on. The wedge stuff the GOP has used for years to get these people to vote against their economic interests.

The tax side is where the rich and business part of the GOP, the "elites" or "establishment", climb on board.

The liberals plan is to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator factor by beating down good hard working folk and assimilating them by force feeding shit popular culture such as rap. That's why you have all these guilt trip privilege assholes.

Your kids not smart enough to get into college or get a job? No worries - we have affirmative action plans to ensure that they do to the detriment of some other kid who gets there on merit

Don't have healthcare that you can pay for? No worries - we'll set up a plan which will allow you to thrive and support ALL of your illegitimate children while some other hard working schmuck picks up the tab

Don't want to parent and take responsibility for your child? No sweat - we'll make sure we fund these mothers and encourage more of them to do the same to ensure the birth rate increases while those working to support these folk don't have time for their families

You're seeing the results happen before your eyes. The destruction of a functioning society.

Rap music... affirmative action... blacks and police.... I'll give you this foxcommander, you're consistent in the small number of issues that trouble you and motivate you to contribute on US politics here.

Yet again you apply your own filter to my comments. Not sure how you managed it but perhaps you realise that those you listed (minus the police) are also problems within the American society that no-one wants to address properly. And don't forget BLM.

There are lots of problems in American society.

Most of the perceived ones you post about concern black people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2016, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 21, 2016, 10:11:18 PM
Fun experiment: as soon as you see "Foxcommander" in front of a post, read his post in the voice of Emperor Palpatine.

By the way - nice to see your self-righteousness pop up again. Such an admirable quality.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2016, 08:32:17 PM
[quote author=muppet link=topic=11632.msg1637713#msg1637713 date=1477168899

Material?

You are raging against policies on one side of the ocean, that you champion on the other.

Material, debate or even discussion is pointless in the face of such flexible principles.
[/quote]

Muppet - I know you've only said this because you're a little hurt by my comments.

Please specify where I have proclaimed my support for any irish political party's policies.

Can't wait for you to post the quote. Would hate for you to be shown up as a liar.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2016, 08:34:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2016, 09:52:54 PM

There are lots of problems in American society.

Most of the perceived ones you post about concern black people.

That's how you've read into it. I never mentioned ethnicity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 23, 2016, 08:36:22 PM
I don't have to show you posting whatever deflection you want.

What I can do easily show you attacking every political party with more than a handful of seats...

....except one.

You are fooling no one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2016, 08:42:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 23, 2016, 08:36:22 PM
I don't have to show you posting whatever deflection you want.

What I can do easily show you attacking every political party with more than a handful of seats...

....except one.

You are fooling no one.

You got to do better than that.
You've made an accusation - prove it with some facts where I have stated it. Otherwise apologise.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 23, 2016, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2016, 08:42:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 23, 2016, 08:36:22 PM
I don't have to show you posting whatever deflection you want.

What I can do easily show you attacking every political party with more than a handful of seats...

....except one.

You are fooling no one.

You got to do better than that.
You've made an accusation - prove it with some facts where I have stated it. Otherwise apologise.

'Accusation'

The definition of accusation is: a charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong.

I haven't accused you of anything.

However, you have attacked FG, FF & Labour in the South, and laugh at the SDLP in the North. You never criticise SF.  You hardly support the DUP or UUP, if you do, I will take it all back and apologise. But no on here believes you are a unionist.

You have attacked people who criticise Adams.

Your comments on healthcare and education is exactly the opposite of SF policy. The only party on the Island of Ireland that would be remotely near what you are arguing (since the demise of the PDs) is FG. But they are your number one target.

I don't have to prove you are a Shinner. I just have to prove that you attack everyone except the Shinners.

You are fooling no one.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 24, 2016, 06:03:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 23, 2016, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2016, 08:42:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 23, 2016, 08:36:22 PM
I don't have to show you posting whatever deflection you want.

What I can do easily show you attacking every political party with more than a handful of seats...

....except one.

You are fooling no one.

You got to do better than that.
You've made an accusation - prove it with some facts where I have stated it. Otherwise apologise.

'Accusation'

The definition of accusation is: a charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong.

I haven't accused you of anything.

However, you have attacked FG, FF & Labour in the South, and laugh at the SDLP in the North. You never criticise SF.  You hardly support the DUP or UUP, if you do, I will take it all back and apologise. But no on here believes you are a unionist.

You have attacked people who criticise Adams.

Your comments on healthcare and education is exactly the opposite of SF policy. The only party on the Island of Ireland that would be remotely near what you are arguing (since the demise of the PDs) is FG. But they are your number one target.

I don't have to prove you are a Shinner. I just have to prove that you attack everyone except the Shinners.

You are fooling no one.

You have absolutely no proof of what you say. Please supply a quote, otherwise apologise (privately will be fine if you want to save face).
Because you think something is true doesn't mean it is.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 24, 2016, 06:08:09 PM
Accusation: a claim that someone has done something bad

For people like yourself making a claim that someone is a shinner falls into this bracket.

Go w*** in your dictionary  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 24, 2016, 07:04:18 PM
Just voted for Jill Stein, against gambling, for Charter Schools and for recreational marijuana.

Now I'm sitting back and waiting for something HUGE to break that will prevent Hillary from taking office.......it's coming!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2016, 07:38:14 PM
Like the O'Keefe "exposes"?

One of his targets, Bob Creamer, is calling for the release of the full, unedited video, claiming it will exonerate him and expose another example of fraudulent editing by O'Keefe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 24, 2016, 07:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 07:38:14 PM
Like the O'Keefe "exposes"?

One of his targets, Bob Creamer, is calling for the release of the full, unedited video, claiming it will exonerate him and expose another example of fraudulent editing by O'Keefe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093)

Lol

No....I'm thinking more along these lines

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/clinton-ally-aids-campaign-of-fbi-officials-wife-1477266114


The political organization of Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, an influential Democrat with longstanding ties to Bill and Hillary Clinton, gave nearly $500,000 to the election campaign of the wife of an official at the Federal Bureau of Investigation who later helped oversee the investigation into Mrs. Clinton's email use.


This isn't going to end well
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 24, 2016, 08:17:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 24, 2016, 06:08:09 PM
Accusation: a claim that someone has done something bad

For people like yourself making a claim that someone is a shinner falls into this bracket.

Go w*** in your dictionary  :)

You have just proven you were wrong to use the word 'accusation'. Well done.

Now here feed on this.

Your first two posts were on a thread about the handpass. Nice decoy.
You next 6 posts were on the 'Sinn Fein, they have gone away' thread:

3rd post - a straw man post about Peter Robinson - contradicting Main Street who was talking about Gerry Adams' beret-wearing past
4th post -  a glib response to a question as to why Gerry Adams was at Cheyne Walk, as part of a 6 man IRA delegation
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2014, 09:46:28 PM
probably because he was better at reeding and riting than the rest of them. and he had glasses which made him seem intelligent.
5th post - an attack (another straw man) on Maguire01 for having the temerity to mention McConville and McArdle murders
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2014, 08:45:37 PM
Bravery was reserved for those lovely chaps in the armoured cars who patrolled the streets and shot people randomly while they were going to the shops, off to mass etc.

Catch yourself on clown.
6th post - another straw man attacking Maguire for criticising the on the Sinn Fein thread
7th post - an attack on 'The Stoops'
8th - a post slagging off Austie Currie

Then you moved onto attacking FG for your 9th post

Then you appeared on the 'Unionist wants Gaa jerseys banned from Universities'

10th post - a post explaining what Republican paraphernalia would be, along with calling Maguire01 'thick'
11th post -a post attacking wildweasel74 for telling 'these newbies with low IQ kindly f**k off!!' but you go on to say ' I look forward to the same vendors selling lillies in a couple of years, just in time for the 1916 100-year anniversary.'

12th, 13th & 14th post bashing FG again

15th bashing Maguire01 again

16th you want to buy Maguire01 an Easter Lily

17th post and it is back to the Sinn Fein thread. This time attacking anyone referring to the Boston Tapes, thereby defending Gerry Adams (as usual).


.....need I go on?

You are fooling absolutely no one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 24, 2016, 09:35:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2016, 08:17:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 24, 2016, 06:08:09 PM
Accusation: a claim that someone has done something bad

For people like yourself making a claim that someone is a shinner falls into this bracket.

Go w*** in your dictionary  :)

You have just proven you were wrong to use the word 'accusation'. Well done.

Now here feed on this.

Your first two posts were on a thread about the handpass. Nice decoy.
You next 6 posts were on the 'Sinn Fein, they have gone away' thread:

3rd post - a straw man post about Peter Robinson - contradicting Main Street who was talking about Gerry Adams' beret-wearing past
4th post -  a glib response to a question as to why Gerry Adams was at Cheyne Walk, as part of a 6 man IRA delegation
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2014, 09:46:28 PM
probably because he was better at reeding and riting than the rest of them. and he had glasses which made him seem intelligent.
5th post - an attack (another straw man) on Maguire01 for having the temerity to mention McConville and McArdle murders
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2014, 08:45:37 PM
Bravery was reserved for those lovely chaps in the armoured cars who patrolled the streets and shot people randomly while they were going to the shops, off to mass etc.

Catch yourself on clown.
6th post - another straw man attacking Maguire for criticising the on the Sinn Fein thread
7th post - an attack on 'The Stoops'
8th - a post slagging off Austie Currie

Then you moved onto attacking FG for your 9th post

Then you appeared on the 'Unionist wants Gaa jerseys banned from Universities'

10th post - a post explaining what Republican paraphernalia would be, along with calling Maguire01 'thick'
11th post -a post attacking wildweasel74 for telling 'these newbies with low IQ kindly f**k off!!' but you go on to say ' I look forward to the same vendors selling lillies in a couple of years, just in time for the 1916 100-year anniversary.'

12th, 13th & 14th post bashing FG again

15th bashing Maguire01 again

16th you want to buy Maguire01 an Easter Lily

17th post and it is back to the Sinn Fein thread. This time attacking anyone referring to the Boston Tapes, thereby defending Gerry Adams (as usual).


.....need I go on?

You are fooling absolutely no one.

So - still no actual evidence to support your claim. Just a load of posts of me exchanging posts with Maguire or talking about GAA jerseys in uni.

Yep - that really backs you up. It would have been easier if you had just apologised and stopped making a fool of yourself.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 24, 2016, 09:57:55 PM
Oh it certainly is evidence.

You see either you are a Easter Lily wearing, Gerry Adams loving, Sinn Fein defending, Stoop/Unionist/Brit/FG/FF/Labour attacking Shinner.....

or you are completely insane.

Take your pick.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2016, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 07:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 07:38:14 PM
Like the O'Keefe "exposes"?

One of his targets, Bob Creamer, is calling for the release of the full, unedited video, claiming it will exonerate him and expose another example of fraudulent editing by O'Keefe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093)

Lol

No....I'm thinking more along these lines

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/clinton-ally-aids-campaign-of-fbi-officials-wife-1477266114


The political organization of Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, an influential Democrat with longstanding ties to Bill and Hillary Clinton, gave nearly $500,000 to the election campaign of the wife of an official at the Federal Bureau of Investigation who later helped oversee the investigation into Mrs. Clinton's email use.


This isn't going to end well

Think Trump was there first with the Florida attorney general.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Then there's this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:28:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Then there's this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/)

Why does every Hillary scandal turn out to be nothing? They scream wolf at everything so often that, if something real shows up, everyone (except the usual cranks) will have Hillary scandal fatigue. In fact they are probably doing her a massive favour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:32:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 07:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 07:38:14 PM
Like the O'Keefe "exposes"?

One of his targets, Bob Creamer, is calling for the release of the full, unedited video, claiming it will exonerate him and expose another example of fraudulent editing by O'Keefe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093)

Lol

No....I'm thinking more along these lines

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/clinton-ally-aids-campaign-of-fbi-officials-wife-1477266114


The political organization of Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, an influential Democrat with longstanding ties to Bill and Hillary Clinton, gave nearly $500,000 to the election campaign of the wife of an official at the Federal Bureau of Investigation who later helped oversee the investigation into Mrs. Clinton's email use.


This isn't going to end well

Think Trump was there first with the Florida attorney general.

Yes...Trumps donation was investigated and he was fined.

This McAuliffe donation should be investigated in a similar manner....if theres no wrongdoing, then Im sure they have nothing to worry about.

My guess is that there was no wrongdoing, but the FBI agent should (and maybe did) have disclosed it, and definitely should have recused himself from the investifation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:28:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Then there's this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/)

Why does every Hillary scandal turn out to be nothing? They scream wolf at everything so often that, if something real shows up, everyone (except the usual cranks) will have Hillary scandal fatigue. In fact they are probably doing her a massive favour.

Hard to find evidence when you smash phones with hammers, forensically wipe servers and plead the fifth..........nothing to see here......move along please
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:44:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:28:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Then there's this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/)

Why does every Hillary scandal turn out to be nothing? They scream wolf at everything so often that, if something real shows up, everyone (except the usual cranks) will have Hillary scandal fatigue. In fact they are probably doing her a massive favour.

Hard to find evidence when you smash phones with hammers, forensically wipe servers and plead the fifth..........nothing to see here......move along please

500,000 dead, including Americans, based on a lie and you are outraged at phones and servers without having a clue what even might be on them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:44:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:28:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Then there's this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/)

Why does every Hillary scandal turn out to be nothing? They scream wolf at everything so often that, if something real shows up, everyone (except the usual cranks) will have Hillary scandal fatigue. In fact they are probably doing her a massive favour.

Hard to find evidence when you smash phones with hammers, forensically wipe servers and plead the fifth..........nothing to see here......move along please

500,000 dead, including Americans, based on a lie and you are outraged at phones and servers without having a clue what even might be on them?

As I have stated on numerous occasions George Bush should be serving life in jail....

And yes I am outraged that a Yale educated attorney whos running for President would knowingly delete 30,000 emails AFTER they were suponead, then smash her phones with a hammer, and then forensically wipe the server, ( and have her aides plead the fifth for good measure)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:58:35 PM
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/the_people_who_hate_hillary_clinton_the_most.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/the_people_who_hate_hillary_clinton_the_most.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:01:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:44:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:28:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Then there's this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/)

Why does every Hillary scandal turn out to be nothing? They scream wolf at everything so often that, if something real shows up, everyone (except the usual cranks) will have Hillary scandal fatigue. In fact they are probably doing her a massive favour.

Hard to find evidence when you smash phones with hammers, forensically wipe servers and plead the fifth..........nothing to see here......move along please

500,000 dead, including Americans, based on a lie and you are outraged at phones and servers without having a clue what even might be on them?

As I have stated on numerous occasions George Bush should be serving life in jail....

And yes I am outraged that a Yale educated attorney whos running for President would knowingly delete 30,000 emails AFTER they were suponead, then smash her phones with a hammer, and then forensically wipe the server, ( and have her aides plead the fifth for good measure)

But yet we only hear the latter while you try to put Dubya's far more dangerous successor into power. I confidently predict 500,000 dead will be nothing in comparison to a Trump Presidency. So sure, be 'outraged' at your emails that you don't even the content of, but don't pretend that there is any logic or sense to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:05:10 AM
Dont know about all that but I dislike her because she is a 2 faced hypocritical liar and fraud.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:07:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:05:10 AM
Dont know about all that but I dislike her because she is a 2 faced hypocritical liar and fraud.

So is Trump, but is also clearly a narcissist, hates foreigners and he admits to sexually pushing himself onto women, for the craic like.

But almost all of your posts are attacking her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:08:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:01:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:44:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 24, 2016, 11:28:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Then there's this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/24/why-the-latest-clinton-conspiracy-might-not-be-what-it-seems/)

Why does every Hillary scandal turn out to be nothing? They scream wolf at everything so often that, if something real shows up, everyone (except the usual cranks) will have Hillary scandal fatigue. In fact they are probably doing her a massive favour.

Hard to find evidence when you smash phones with hammers, forensically wipe servers and plead the fifth..........nothing to see here......move along please

500,000 dead, including Americans, based on a lie and you are outraged at phones and servers without having a clue what even might be on them?

As I have stated on numerous occasions George Bush should be serving life in jail....

And yes I am outraged that a Yale educated attorney whos running for President would knowingly delete 30,000 emails AFTER they were suponead, then smash her phones with a hammer, and then forensically wipe the server, ( and have her aides plead the fifth for good measure)

But yet we only hear the latter while you try to put Dubya's far more dangerous successor into power. I confidently predict 500,000 dead will be nothing in comparison to a Trump Presidency. So sure, be 'outraged' at your emails that you don't even the content of, but don't pretend that there is any logic or sense to it.

Youre having short term memory issues my friend....read back in the thread....I said that if I lived in a swing state I would vote for Hillary.  I wouldnt vote for Trump, and today voted for Jill Stein

No, I hope she gets elected because shes going to get indicted and booted out.  Then we can start all over again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:14:41 AM
If they could pin anything on her now, imagine trying to get her when she is President?

Doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:33:36 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

My point exactly......These Irish people you mention never LIVED here.....they VISITED....the same way HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Americans VISIT Ireland every year.

Are they all now experts on the various personalities of Irish politics.

The fvckin Yanks are (or at least were) paying Bertie big money for speeches as recently as 2011-LOL

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/former-pm-bertie-ahern-earns-40000-a-pop-lecturing-in-us-126242123-237402431
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:40:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:33:36 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

My point exactly......These Irish people you mention never LIVED here.....they VISITED....the same way HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Americans VISIT Ireland every year.

Are they all now experts on the various personalities of Irish politics.

The fvckin Yanks are (or at least were) paying Bertie big money for speeches as recently as 2011-LOL

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/former-pm-bertie-ahern-earns-40000-a-pop-lecturing-in-us-126242123-237402431

Hang on, many of the people I mentioned 'lived' in the US.

But you are missing a huge point. Whoever is Taoiseach has no bearing whatsoever on US citizens, but it is very different for the rest of the world. Most countries have wall to wall news coverage of the US election cycle.

As the saying goes 'when to US sneezes, the world catches a cold'. The whole world is watching very closely indeed.

Your Irish Facebook friends are no mugs. Hillary would be far, far better for Ireland than Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 25, 2016, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.
you should substitute we with I think I and you would be spot on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:45:36 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 25, 2016, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.
you should substitute we with I think I and you would be spot on.

Is that really the best comment you can come up with? Seriously??

There is a whole internet of info out there, even opinions that you could steal and pretend were your own, but that is the best you can think of.

Must.
Try.
Harder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2016, 01:03:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:32:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 07:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 07:38:14 PM
Like the O'Keefe "exposes"?

One of his targets, Bob Creamer, is calling for the release of the full, unedited video, claiming it will exonerate him and expose another example of fraudulent editing by O'Keefe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093)

Lol

No....I'm thinking more along these lines

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/clinton-ally-aids-campaign-of-fbi-officials-wife-1477266114


The political organization of Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, an influential Democrat with longstanding ties to Bill and Hillary Clinton, gave nearly $500,000 to the election campaign of the wife of an official at the Federal Bureau of Investigation who later helped oversee the investigation into Mrs. Clinton's email use.


This isn't going to end well

Think Trump was there first with the Florida attorney general.

Yes...Trumps donation was investigated and he was fined.

This McAuliffe donation should be investigated in a similar manner....if theres no wrongdoing, then Im sure they have nothing to worry about.

My guess is that there was no wrongdoing, but the FBI agent should (and maybe did) have disclosed it, and definitely should have recused himself from the investifation

When you say "investigate", what does that mean?

Is there actual evidence or even a legitimate suggestion of wrongdoing here?

Does each and every case where a political opponent hypes up some story, whether legitimate or not, need an official investigation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 01:29:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:40:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:33:36 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

My point exactly......These Irish people you mention never LIVED here.....they VISITED....the same way HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Americans VISIT Ireland every year.

Are they all now experts on the various personalities of Irish politics.

The fvckin Yanks are (or at least were) paying Bertie big money for speeches as recently as 2011-LOL

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/former-pm-bertie-ahern-earns-40000-a-pop-lecturing-in-us-126242123-237402431

Hang on, many of the people I mentioned 'lived' in the US.

But you are missing a huge point. Whoever is Taoiseach has no bearing whatsoever on US citizens, but it is very different for the rest of the world. Most countries have wall to wall news coverage of the US election cycle.

As the saying goes 'when to US sneezes, the world catches a cold'. The whole world is watching very closely indeed.

Your Irish Facebook friends are no mugs. Hillary would be far, far better for Ireland than Trump.

You are losing the plot completely....you mention 3 groups of Irish people whove been to the states..J1 Students, Holiday makers and workers....now your claiming that "many" of those people you mentioned "lived" in the States.


I'll give you the workers, but J1 students and holiday makers dont live here....they VISIT.

I lived in England for a Summer back in the late 90's......does that make me more qualified to offer an opinion on Bristish politics than someone whos lived there their entire lives, pays taxes and votes and who gets iheir information from a variety of sources and life experiences
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 01:35:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 01:03:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:32:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 07:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 07:38:14 PM
Like the O'Keefe "exposes"?

One of his targets, Bob Creamer, is calling for the release of the full, unedited video, claiming it will exonerate him and expose another example of fraudulent editing by O'Keefe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093)

Lol

No....I'm thinking more along these lines

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/clinton-ally-aids-campaign-of-fbi-officials-wife-1477266114


The political organization of Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, an influential Democrat with longstanding ties to Bill and Hillary Clinton, gave nearly $500,000 to the election campaign of the wife of an official at the Federal Bureau of Investigation who later helped oversee the investigation into Mrs. Clinton's email use.


This isn't going to end well

Think Trump was there first with the Florida attorney general.

Yes...Trumps donation was investigated and he was fined.

This McAuliffe donation should be investigated in a similar manner....if theres no wrongdoing, then Im sure they have nothing to worry about.

My guess is that there was no wrongdoing, but the FBI agent should (and maybe did) have disclosed it, and definitely should have recused himself from the investifation

When you say "investigate", what does that mean?

Is there actual evidence or even a legitimate suggestion of wrongdoing here?

Does each and every case where a political opponent hypes up some story, whether legitimate or not, need an official investigation?

Well Terry McAuliffe is one dodgy motherfvcker when it comes to trying to steal elections,  so I would say he definitely has form for pulling a fast one

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-court-invalidates-gov-terry-mcauliffes-order-restoring-felon-voting-rights/2016/07/22/3e1d45f6-5058-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html

Suponea his emails and see whats there.  If he has nothing to hide, then he shouldnt have any problem complying. (Quick.......get the hammer)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 01:36:46 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 01:29:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:40:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:33:36 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

My point exactly......These Irish people you mention never LIVED here.....they VISITED....the same way HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Americans VISIT Ireland every year.

Are they all now experts on the various personalities of Irish politics.

The fvckin Yanks are (or at least were) paying Bertie big money for speeches as recently as 2011-LOL

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/former-pm-bertie-ahern-earns-40000-a-pop-lecturing-in-us-126242123-237402431

Hang on, many of the people I mentioned 'lived' in the US.

But you are missing a huge point. Whoever is Taoiseach has no bearing whatsoever on US citizens, but it is very different for the rest of the world. Most countries have wall to wall news coverage of the US election cycle.

As the saying goes 'when to US sneezes, the world catches a cold'. The whole world is watching very closely indeed.

Your Irish Facebook friends are no mugs. Hillary would be far, far better for Ireland than Trump.

You are losing the plot completely....you mention 3 groups of Irish people whove been to the states..J1 Students, Holiday makers and workers....now your claiming that "many" of those people you mentioned "lived" in the States.


I'll give you the workers, but J1 students and holiday makers dont live here....they VISIT.

I lived in England for a Summer back in the late 90's......does that make me more qualified to offer an opinion on Bristish politics than someone whos lived there their entire lives, pays taxes and votes and who gets iheir information from a variety of sources and life experiences

If you 'lived' in England for a Summer, then J1 visas 'live' in the US.  ;D

So now I have J1s and workers. That is 'many' by any definition and is hardly losing the plot.

But once again you compare Ireland and the US as equals. They are not. We in Ireland know far more about the US than the average US citizen knows about us. So your comparison is way off.

And while Britain is not the US, I'd wager that the average Irish citizen could give an informed opinion on British politics quite easily. Again because we are hugely under the sphere of influence of Britain and its media, just like we are with the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 01:49:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 01:36:46 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 01:29:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:40:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:33:36 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

My point exactly......These Irish people you mention never LIVED here.....they VISITED....the same way HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Americans VISIT Ireland every year.

Are they all now experts on the various personalities of Irish politics.

The fvckin Yanks are (or at least were) paying Bertie big money for speeches as recently as 2011-LOL

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/former-pm-bertie-ahern-earns-40000-a-pop-lecturing-in-us-126242123-237402431

Hang on, many of the people I mentioned 'lived' in the US.

But you are missing a huge point. Whoever is Taoiseach has no bearing whatsoever on US citizens, but it is very different for the rest of the world. Most countries have wall to wall news coverage of the US election cycle.

As the saying goes 'when to US sneezes, the world catches a cold'. The whole world is watching very closely indeed.

Your Irish Facebook friends are no mugs. Hillary would be far, far better for Ireland than Trump.

You are losing the plot completely....you mention 3 groups of Irish people whove been to the states..J1 Students, Holiday makers and workers....now your claiming that "many" of those people you mentioned "lived" in the States.


I'll give you the workers, but J1 students and holiday makers dont live here....they VISIT.

I lived in England for a Summer back in the late 90's......does that make me more qualified to offer an opinion on Bristish politics than someone whos lived there their entire lives, pays taxes and votes and who gets iheir information from a variety of sources and life experiences

If you 'lived' in England for a Summer, then J1 visas 'live' in the US.  ;D

So now I have J1s and workers. That is 'many' by any definition and is hardly losing the plot.

But once again you compare Ireland and the US as equals. They are not. We in Ireland know far more about the US than the average US citizen knows about us. So your comparison is way off.

And while Britain is not the US, I'd wager that the average Irish citizen could give an informed opinion on British politics quite easily. Again because we are hugely under the sphere of influence of Britain and its media, just like we are with the US.

LOL....Keep digging....Obviously the sarcasm of my comment about "living" in England was above your pay grade.

2/3 of the people you mention dont live here, they VISIT (and while Im at it most J1 Students make a complete disgrace of themselves while theyre here)

Yes, I would have opinions about British politics, but I would also respect and value the opinion of a British Citizen, taxpayer and voter much moreso than my own opinions, which are formulated from a distance of 3,000 miles. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 01:52:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 01:49:29 AM
LOL....Keep digging....Obviously the sarcasm of my comment about "living" in England was above your pay grade.

2/3 of the people you mention dont live here, they VISIT (and while Im at it most J1 Students make a complete disgrace of themselves while theyre here)

Yes, I would have opinions about British politics, but I would also respect and value the opinion of a British Citizen, taxpayer and voter much moreso than my own opinionwhich are formulated from a distance of 3,000 miles

My opinion isn't formulated from 3,000 miles.

You owe me a load of pints ffs!   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2016, 01:53:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 01:35:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 01:03:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 11:32:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2016, 07:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2016, 07:38:14 PM
Like the O'Keefe "exposes"?

One of his targets, Bob Creamer, is calling for the release of the full, unedited video, claiming it will exonerate him and expose another example of fraudulent editing by O'Keefe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-okeefe-sting-operation_us_580a5ee1e4b000d0b1568093)

Lol

No....I'm thinking more along these lines

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/clinton-ally-aids-campaign-of-fbi-officials-wife-1477266114


The political organization of Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, an influential Democrat with longstanding ties to Bill and Hillary Clinton, gave nearly $500,000 to the election campaign of the wife of an official at the Federal Bureau of Investigation who later helped oversee the investigation into Mrs. Clinton's email use.


This isn't going to end well

Think Trump was there first with the Florida attorney general.

Yes...Trumps donation was investigated and he was fined.

This McAuliffe donation should be investigated in a similar manner....if theres no wrongdoing, then Im sure they have nothing to worry about.

My guess is that there was no wrongdoing, but the FBI agent should (and maybe did) have disclosed it, and definitely should have recused himself from the investifation

When you say "investigate", what does that mean?

Is there actual evidence or even a legitimate suggestion of wrongdoing here?

Does each and every case where a political opponent hypes up some story, whether legitimate or not, need an official investigation?

Well Terry McAuliffe is one dodgy motherfvcker when it comes to trying to steal elections,  so I would say he definitely has form for pulling a fast one

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-court-invalidates-gov-terry-mcauliffes-order-restoring-felon-voting-rights/2016/07/22/3e1d45f6-5058-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html

Suponea his emails and see whats there.  If he has nothing to hide, then he shouldnt have any problem complying. (Quick.......get the hammer)

How is the restoration of voting rights to felons who've served their time "stealing elections" or corrupt?

He made a decision as governor, with the full knowledge of the public, which was found unconstitutional under a court challenge. He did not commit a criminal or fraudulent act. He did not disregard the decision of the court.

So again, what cause is there to investigate or subpoena his emails?

Republicans not liking him or Donald Trump screaming corruption (the irony!) is hardly going to pass muster with a judge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:01:13 AM
Execurive order, in a swing state during an election year....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a frickin duck

"Never before have any of the prior 71 Virginia Governors issued a clemency order of any kind — including pardons, reprieves, commutations, and restoration orders — to a class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request," Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons wrote for the majority. "To be sure, no Governor of this Commonwealth, until now, has even suggested that such a power exists."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:01:13 AM
Execurive order, in a swing state during an election year....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it a frickin duck

"Never before have any of the prior 71 Virginia Governors issued a clemency order of any kind — including pardons, reprieves, commutations, and restoration orders — to a class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request," Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons wrote for the majority. "To be sure, no Governor of this Commonwealth, until now, has even suggested that such a power exists."

Quite, but how is that election stealing or rigging?

Are most felons former Democrats in Virginia?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:01:13 AM
Execurive order, in a swing state during an election year....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it a frickin duck

"Never before have any of the prior 71 Virginia Governors issued a clemency order of any kind — including pardons, reprieves, commutations, and restoration orders — to a class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request," Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons wrote for the majority. "To be sure, no Governor of this Commonwealth, until now, has even suggested that such a power exists."

Quite, but how is that election stealing or rigging?

Are most felons former Democrats in Virginia?

I think if you have to ask that question you already know the answer

http://www.nbc29.com/story/32865055/va-felons-with-restored-rights-likely-to-live-amongst-democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2016, 08:13:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:01:13 AM
Execurive order, in a swing state during an election year....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it a frickin duck

"Never before have any of the prior 71 Virginia Governors issued a clemency order of any kind — including pardons, reprieves, commutations, and restoration orders — to a class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request," Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons wrote for the majority. "To be sure, no Governor of this Commonwealth, until now, has even suggested that such a power exists."

Quite, but how is that election stealing or rigging?

Are most felons former Democrats in Virginia?

I think if you have to ask that question you already know the answer

http://www.nbc29.com/story/32865055/va-felons-with-restored-rights-likely-to-live-amongst-democrats
Whitey GOP gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement is fraud. The whole prison system is fraud. There were 2m prisoners in 1980. By 2007 there were 7m. And they all count as felons. Bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:53:42 PM
I don't disagree with what you said, but the issue were dealing right right now is specific to Terry McAuliffe and whether his past behavior would lead a reasonable person to raise an eyebrow with this "revelation"......I think it does.....you dont
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 25, 2016, 01:18:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

You are as arrogant as that kn**ker gallbladder!

Do you really believe You know more about America than Americans do?

You played golf over there, whoopdee fookin doo.

The word gobdhite springs to,mind, you have lost the run,of yourself!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on October 25, 2016, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2016, 01:18:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

You are as arrogant as that kn**ker gallbladder!

Do you really believe You know more about America than Americans do?

You played golf over there, whoopdee fookin doo.

The word gobdhite springs to,mind, you have lost the run,of yourself!

+1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:01:13 AM
Execurive order, in a swing state during an election year....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it a frickin duck

"Never before have any of the prior 71 Virginia Governors issued a clemency order of any kind — including pardons, reprieves, commutations, and restoration orders — to a class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request," Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons wrote for the majority. "To be sure, no Governor of this Commonwealth, until now, has even suggested that such a power exists."

Quite, but how is that election stealing or rigging?

Are most felons former Democrats in Virginia?

I think if you have to ask that question you already know the answer

http://www.nbc29.com/story/32865055/va-felons-with-restored-rights-likely-to-live-amongst-democrats

So more felons come from poor, Democratic areas than wealthier Republican areas.

Therefore restoring the rights of felons is tantamount to stealing the election?

But let's grant, for the sake of argument, that McAuliffe WAS motivated, at least in part, due to the likely partisan leaning of the average felon: that doesn't make it wrong! Are GOP arguments against felons voting fraudulent purely because they might stand to lose out in voting terms?

As for the timing... so what? There is a national election every second year FFS. Many states have off-year governor and legislature elections. WHEN is an acceptable time for this kind of action. Shouldn't he have done it later in the year to make it less likely that a court would block it, if his intent was purely ballot box stuffing?

And again, NONE of that adds to your case that there was anything fraudulent in that campaign contribution.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 25, 2016, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2016, 01:18:30 PM

You are as arrogant as that kn**ker gallbladder!

Do you really believe You know more about America than Americans do?

You played golf over there, whoopdee fookin doo.

The word gobdhite springs to,mind, you have lost the run,of yourself!

Best sentence ever, spelling, grammar, the overall sentiment...just brilliant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:01:13 AM
Execurive order, in a swing state during an election year....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it a frickin duck

"Never before have any of the prior 71 Virginia Governors issued a clemency order of any kind — including pardons, reprieves, commutations, and restoration orders — to a class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request," Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons wrote for the majority. "To be sure, no Governor of this Commonwealth, until now, has even suggested that such a power exists."

Quite, but how is that election stealing or rigging?

Are most felons former Democrats in Virginia?

I think if you have to ask that question you already know the answer

http://www.nbc29.com/story/32865055/va-felons-with-restored-rights-likely-to-live-amongst-democrats

So more felons come from poor, Democratic areas than wealthier Republican areas.

Therefore restoring the rights of felons is tantamount to stealing the election?

But let's grant, for the sake of argument, that McAuliffe WAS motivated, at least in part, due to the likely partisan leaning of the average felon: that doesn't make it wrong! Are GOP arguments against felons voting fraudulent purely because they might stand to lose out in voting terms?

As for the timing... so what? There is a national election every second year FFS. Many states have off-year governor and legislature elections. WHEN is an acceptable time for this kind of action. Shouldn't he have done it later in the year to make it less likely that a court would block it, if his intent was purely ballot box stuffing?

And again, NONE of that adds to your case that there was anything fraudulent in that campaign contribution.

To quote the now fired Scott Foval. "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this".


And you can't understand why I won't give these people the benefit of the doubt???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 25, 2016, 03:21:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:01:13 AM
Execurive order, in a swing state during an election year....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it a frickin duck

"Never before have any of the prior 71 Virginia Governors issued a clemency order of any kind — including pardons, reprieves, commutations, and restoration orders — to a class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request," Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons wrote for the majority. "To be sure, no Governor of this Commonwealth, until now, has even suggested that such a power exists."

Quite, but how is that election stealing or rigging?

Are most felons former Democrats in Virginia?

I think if you have to ask that question you already know the answer

http://www.nbc29.com/story/32865055/va-felons-with-restored-rights-likely-to-live-amongst-democrats

So more felons come from poor, Democratic areas than wealthier Republican areas.

Therefore restoring the rights of felons is tantamount to stealing the election?

But let's grant, for the sake of argument, that McAuliffe WAS motivated, at least in part, due to the likely partisan leaning of the average felon: that doesn't make it wrong! Are GOP arguments against felons voting fraudulent purely because they might stand to lose out in voting terms?

As for the timing... so what? There is a national election every second year FFS. Many states have off-year governor and legislature elections. WHEN is an acceptable time for this kind of action. Shouldn't he have done it later in the year to make it less likely that a court would block it, if his intent was purely ballot box stuffing?

And again, NONE of that adds to your case that there was anything fraudulent in that campaign contribution.

To quote the now fired Scott Foval. "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this".


And you can't understand why I won't give these people the benefit of the doubt???

Benefit of the doubt works both ways - every couple of days on this thread you come up with a new "story" that you claim will bring the walls crashing down on Clinton - and every time it doesn't happen. Now there are three options here to explain this

1. a vast left wing conspiracy involving the lame-stream media, international "banks" (or whatever other anti-Semitic dog whistle you prefer) and the Clintons which crushes these stories before they can grow

2. you are the unluckiest citizen journalist that ever walked the internet, and you hex any story you link to before it grows legs

3. Or the right wing simply chooses to throw whatever muck it can at Clinton, facts be damned and use gullible people like you to spread this message over social networks, whilst all the while cursing the fact that they have a candidate that actually is corrupt and that the muck actually deserves to stick to?

Happy to be proved wrong about Clinton - but I wouldn't be extending the benefit of the doubt to you Whitey, given your track record so far - how long can we take your posts seriously when they are all sizzle and no steak?

You don't need to live in America to have critical faculties. And "if it walks like a duck" isn't accepted as a relevant standard in good journalism or in courts of law - on either side of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 25, 2016, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 25, 2016, 03:21:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 03:07:54 PM
To quote the now fired Scott Foval. "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this".


And you can't understand why I won't give these people the benefit of the doubt???

Benefit of the doubt works both ways - every couple of days on this thread you come up with a new "story" that you claim will bring the walls crashing down on Clinton - and every time it doesn't happen. Now there are three options here to explain this

1. a vast left wing conspiracy involving the lame-stream media, international "banks" (or whatever other anti-Semitic dog whistle you prefer) and the Clintons which crushes these stories before they can grow

2. you are the unluckiest citizen journalist that ever walked the internet, and you hex any story you link to before it grows legs

3. Or the right wing simply chooses to throw whatever muck it can at Clinton, facts be damned and use gullible people like you to spread this message over social networks, whilst all the while cursing the fact that they have a candidate that actually is corrupt and that the muck actually deserves to stick to?

Happy to be proved wrong about Clinton - but I wouldn't be extending the benefit of the doubt to you Whitey, given your track record so far - how long can we take your posts seriously when they are all sizzle and no steak?

You don't need to live in America to have critical faculties. And "if it walks like a duck" isn't accepted as a relevant standard in good journalism or in courts of law - on either side of the Atlantic.

(http://s.quickmeme.com/img/db/db62486280070888a475c755368e23ff6d99673cfe5bff1d98204be3ecd77f72.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 25, 2016, 03:49:01 PM
You could not make this stuff up - except the stuff they are making up. This is from today...


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/24/we-found-the-plan-donald-trump-s-axis-of-tinfoil-hats-duped-again.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2016, 04:05:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:01:13 AM
Execurive order, in a swing state during an election year....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it a frickin duck

"Never before have any of the prior 71 Virginia Governors issued a clemency order of any kind — including pardons, reprieves, commutations, and restoration orders — to a class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request," Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons wrote for the majority. "To be sure, no Governor of this Commonwealth, until now, has even suggested that such a power exists."

Quite, but how is that election stealing or rigging?

Are most felons former Democrats in Virginia?

I think if you have to ask that question you already know the answer

http://www.nbc29.com/story/32865055/va-felons-with-restored-rights-likely-to-live-amongst-democrats

So more felons come from poor, Democratic areas than wealthier Republican areas.

Therefore restoring the rights of felons is tantamount to stealing the election?

But let's grant, for the sake of argument, that McAuliffe WAS motivated, at least in part, due to the likely partisan leaning of the average felon: that doesn't make it wrong! Are GOP arguments against felons voting fraudulent purely because they might stand to lose out in voting terms?

As for the timing... so what? There is a national election every second year FFS. Many states have off-year governor and legislature elections. WHEN is an acceptable time for this kind of action. Shouldn't he have done it later in the year to make it less likely that a court would block it, if his intent was purely ballot box stuffing?

And again, NONE of that adds to your case that there was anything fraudulent in that campaign contribution.

To quote the now fired Scott Foval. "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this".


And you can't understand why I won't give these people the benefit of the doubt???

But all you have is a hyped up undercover video from a proven fraud and not much else. Be suspicious if you want, but if you are going to call for an official investigation every time something like this comes up, just because right wing radio or Breitbart or Fox News hypes up what may be a complete non-story, we better open up a new government police agency to handle the deluge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2016, 04:34:43 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 25, 2016, 03:49:01 PM
You could not make this stuff up - except the stuff they are making up. This is from today...


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/24/we-found-the-plan-donald-trump-s-axis-of-tinfoil-hats-duped-again.html

Being back Dean Chambers, the Unskewed Polls guy... all is forgiven! ;D

I especially like the creator, a "hardcore conservative who believes the media is lying to him about everything"!

So he just goes and creates an illuminati fantasy which the gullible idiots with their Pavlovian responses takes as gospel! It's about Hillary, so it has to be true!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 06:22:17 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 25, 2016, 03:21:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2016, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 02:01:13 AM
Execurive order, in a swing state during an election year....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it a frickin duck

"Never before have any of the prior 71 Virginia Governors issued a clemency order of any kind — including pardons, reprieves, commutations, and restoration orders — to a class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request," Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons wrote for the majority. "To be sure, no Governor of this Commonwealth, until now, has even suggested that such a power exists."

Quite, but how is that election stealing or rigging?

Are most felons former Democrats in Virginia?

I think if you have to ask that question you already know the answer

http://www.nbc29.com/story/32865055/va-felons-with-restored-rights-likely-to-live-amongst-democrats

So more felons come from poor, Democratic areas than wealthier Republican areas.

Therefore restoring the rights of felons is tantamount to stealing the election?

But let's grant, for the sake of argument, that McAuliffe WAS motivated, at least in part, due to the likely partisan leaning of the average felon: that doesn't make it wrong! Are GOP arguments against felons voting fraudulent purely because they might stand to lose out in voting terms?

As for the timing... so what? There is a national election every second year FFS. Many states have off-year governor and legislature elections. WHEN is an acceptable time for this kind of action. Shouldn't he have done it later in the year to make it less likely that a court would block it, if his intent was purely ballot box stuffing?

And again, NONE of that adds to your case that there was anything fraudulent in that campaign contribution.

To quote the now fired Scott Foval. "It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this".


And you can't understand why I won't give these people the benefit of the doubt???

Benefit of the doubt works both ways - every couple of days on this thread you come up with a new "story" that you claim will bring the walls crashing down on Clinton - and every time it doesn't happen. Now there are three options here to explain this

1. a vast left wing conspiracy involving the lame-stream media, international "banks" (or whatever other anti-Semitic dog whistle you prefer) and the Clintons which crushes these stories before they can grow

2. you are the unluckiest citizen journalist that ever walked the internet, and you hex any story you link to before it grows legs

3. Or the right wing simply chooses to throw whatever muck it can at Clinton, facts be damned and use gullible people like you to spread this message over social networks, whilst all the while cursing the fact that they have a candidate that actually is corrupt and that the muck actually deserves to stick to?

Happy to be proved wrong about Clinton - but I wouldn't be extending the benefit of the doubt to you Whitey, given your track record so far - how long can we take your posts seriously when they are all sizzle and no steak?

You don't need to live in America to have critical faculties. And "if it walks like a duck" isn't accepted as a relevant standard in good journalism or in courts of law - on either side of the Atlantic.

Hillary

Deleted 30,000 emails that were under suponea

Smashed 3 cell phones with a hammer

Had her server forensically wiped

Has senior aides who took the fifth instance dad of testifying

The head of the DNC has had to resign for rigging a primary

Her replacement may have to resign for rigging a debate by leaking questions ahead of time

A senior figure connected to the campaign Robert Creamer has had to resign for coordinating violence at Trump rallies (He also visited the White House an odd 350 times and met with Obama 45 times)



So in light of all that you are  still willing to give the Clinton campaign the benefit of the doubt any time a new story breaks. Yes, some of times hem are crap, but given Clintons track record that shouldn't be the default position

Regarding a campaign derailing revelation, do you think that it's beyond The realm of possibility that Wikileaks are holding something back to roll out a few days before the election ?????

I certainly think there is a good shot that something will come out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on October 25, 2016, 07:05:03 PM
You forgot Benghazi - or are we finally accepting that the nine - NINE - separate probes into that event, which found her not to be responsible, are now legitimate?

FBI Director Comey is aware of all the "facts" above - and yet, in a remarkably partisan press conference, stated he was unable to prove any illegality connected with Hillary Clinton, or indeed any grounds for prosecuting any charges against her. Not particularly remarkable, given that previous Secretaries had maintained their own email servers.

Nor is it particularly remarkable that 30,000 emails were deleted, given that the server was maintaining both her business and personal mails - personal mails which the FBI knew full well they had no right to probe. The point is proven even more by the Wikileaks dumps, which show no illegalities (so far), but just the ordinary, wearying cynicism of political sausage making (or risotto-preparing).

Also the FBI have been leaking selectively ever since the Comey conference and they still don't have anything to force an indictment.

And as for her staff wiping the server and destroying devices no longer in use - that is standard security. The fact that they used a hammer does not confer criminality on their actions - it just makes most people wish they had been more tech savvy re their security, maintained separate servers and allowed the Department of State to make those arrangements.

But the "system" is protecting her.

And yet, we have a candidate on the opposing side who has a record of bankruptcies, lawsuits for non payment of debts, has confessed himself on tape to non-consensual sexual activity, has been accused by 11 women of such, has been forced to pay a fine for sending money to an Attorney General in Florida, just after she dropped an investigation into a bogus university scam, has never released one tax return (despite her doing so herself, and despite continuing evidence that he has had to source loans from foreign banks, whilst maintaining people on his pay roll with close attachments to the Russian government) has encouraged said Russian government to interfere in the electoral process by hacking her, has as an advisor a man who just two days ago said there may not be an election in 2020 (the lovely Roger Stone), is encouraging crowds at his rallies to abuse the press (there was some footage yesterday of Trump supporters calling the media "lugenpresse" or lying press, a phrase popularised by Hitler during the last years of the Weimar Republic), and has encouraged and nurtured far right and racist elements to rally to his banner.

There's loads more.

Now, I know what you will say - "I know all this and I'd vote for Hillary above him in a swing state...but Hillary is as bad as him. And I wish my Irish facebook friends would shut up about her."

That is not a sustainable position. There are different levels of wrong doing - which is why there are misdemeanours and felonies. But the constant false equivalency that you and others apply to both candidates serves not to expose Clinton, but to normalise Trump. There are no comparisons between the two. Clinton is possibly the most investigated public figure in American politics, maybe world politics, and all you can come up with is all sizzle, no steak, and a hope that a Hail Mary from Wikileaks is going to derail her.

And if it does? When Herr Trump is trashing the most important democratic document ever written and maybe some of the lads in Worcester and Boston are being taken away to ICE internment camps as well as the Muslims and Mexicans, when you need to keep your Green Card close in case you still have your accent, when ethnicity rather than character is the guarantor of American Citizenship - I hope your vote for Jill Stein makes sure that your conscience is clean. Washing your hands of it doesn't wash.

Maybe using a hammer wasn't so important, after all?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 25, 2016, 07:45:20 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2016, 01:18:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

You are as arrogant as that kn**ker gallbladder!

Do you really believe You know more about America than Americans do?

You played golf over there, whoopdee fookin doo.

The word gobdhite springs to,mind, you have lost the run,of yourself!

PMSL - Brilliant :D

Surprised he didn't elaborate on how he got course record 62 on his first try at Augusta but it doesn't get recorded as he's an amateur.
Full of it.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 25, 2016, 08:17:47 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 25, 2016, 07:05:03 PM
You forgot Benghazi - or are we finally accepting that the nine - NINE - separate probes into that event, which found her not to be responsible, are now legitimate?

FBI Director Comey is aware of all the "facts" above - and yet, in a remarkably partisan press conference, stated he was unable to prove any illegality connected with Hillary Clinton, or indeed any grounds for prosecuting any charges against her. Not particularly remarkable, given that previous Secretaries had maintained their own email servers.

Nor is it particularly remarkable that 30,000 emails were deleted, given that the server was maintaining both her business and personal mails - personal mails which the FBI knew full well they had no right to probe. The point is proven even more by the Wikileaks dumps, which show no illegalities (so far), but just the ordinary, wearying cynicism of political sausage making (or risotto-preparing).

Also the FBI have been leaking selectively ever since the Comey conference and they still don't have anything to force an indictment.

And as for her staff wiping the server and destroying devices no longer in use - that is standard security. The fact that they used a hammer does not confer criminality on their actions - it just makes most people wish they had been more tech savvy re their security, maintained separate servers and allowed the Department of State to make those arrangements.

But the "system" is protecting her.

And yet, we have a candidate on the opposing side who has a record of bankruptcies, lawsuits for non payment of debts, has confessed himself on tape to non-consensual sexual activity, has been accused by 11 women of such, has been forced to pay a fine for sending money to an Attorney General in Florida, just after she dropped an investigation into a bogus university scam, has never released one tax return (despite her doing so herself, and despite continuing evidence that he has had to source loans from foreign banks, whilst maintaining people on his pay roll with close attachments to the Russian government) has encouraged said Russian government to interfere in the electoral process by hacking her, has as an advisor a man who just two days ago said there may not be an election in 2020 (the lovely Roger Stone), is encouraging crowds at his rallies to abuse the press (there was some footage yesterday of Trump supporters calling the media "lugenpresse" or lying press, a phrase popularised by Hitler during the last years of the Weimar Republic), and has encouraged and nurtured far right and racist elements to rally to his banner.

There's loads more.

Now, I know what you will say - "I know all this and I'd vote for Hillary above him in a swing state...but Hillary is as bad as him. And I wish my Irish facebook friends would shut up about her."

That is not a sustainable position. There are different levels of wrong doing - which is why there are misdemeanours and felonies. But the constant false equivalency that you and others apply to both candidates serves not to expose Clinton, but to normalise Trump. There are no comparisons between the two. Clinton is possibly the most investigated public figure in American politics, maybe world politics, and all you can come up with is all sizzle, no steak, and a hope that a Hail Mary from Wikileaks is going to derail her.

And if it does? When Herr Trump is trashing the most important democratic document ever written and maybe some of the lads in Worcester and Boston are being taken away to ICE internment camps as well as the Muslims and Mexicans, when you need to keep your Green Card close in case you still have your accent, when ethnicity rather than character is the guarantor of American Citizenship - I hope your vote for Jill Stein makes sure that your conscience is clean. Washing your hands of it doesn't wash.

Maybe using a hammer wasn't so important, after all?

Great post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2016, 10:07:23 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 25, 2016, 07:05:03 PM
You forgot Benghazi - or are we finally accepting that the nine - NINE - separate probes into that event, which found her not to be responsible, are now legitimate?

FBI Director Comey is aware of all the "facts" above - and yet, in a remarkably partisan press conference, stated he was unable to prove any illegality connected with Hillary Clinton, or indeed any grounds for prosecuting any charges against her. Not particularly remarkable, given that previous Secretaries had maintained their own email servers.

Nor is it particularly remarkable that 30,000 emails were deleted, given that the server was maintaining both her business and personal mails - personal mails which the FBI knew full well they had no right to probe. The point is proven even more by the Wikileaks dumps, which show no illegalities (so far), but just the ordinary, wearying cynicism of political sausage making (or risotto-preparing).

Also the FBI have been leaking selectively ever since the Comey conference and they still don't have anything to force an indictment.

And as for her staff wiping the server and destroying devices no longer in use - that is standard security. The fact that they used a hammer does not confer criminality on their actions - it just makes most people wish they had been more tech savvy re their security, maintained separate servers and allowed the Department of State to make those arrangements.

But the "system" is protecting her.

And yet, we have a candidate on the opposing side who has a record of bankruptcies, lawsuits for non payment of debts, has confessed himself on tape to non-consensual sexual activity, has been accused by 11 women of such, has been forced to pay a fine for sending money to an Attorney General in Florida, just after she dropped an investigation into a bogus university scam, has never released one tax return (despite her doing so herself, and despite continuing evidence that he has had to source loans from foreign banks, whilst maintaining people on his pay roll with close attachments to the Russian government) has encouraged said Russian government to interfere in the electoral process by hacking her, has as an advisor a man who just two days ago said there may not be an election in 2020 (the lovely Roger Stone), is encouraging crowds at his rallies to abuse the press (there was some footage yesterday of Trump supporters calling the media "lugenpresse" or lying press, a phrase popularised by Hitler during the last years of the Weimar Republic), and has encouraged and nurtured far right and racist elements to rally to his banner.

There's loads more.

Now, I know what you will say - "I know all this and I'd vote for Hillary above him in a swing state...but Hillary is as bad as him. And I wish my Irish facebook friends would shut up about her."

That is not a sustainable position. There are different levels of wrong doing - which is why there are misdemeanours and felonies. But the constant false equivalency that you and others apply to both candidates serves not to expose Clinton, but to normalise Trump. There are no comparisons between the two. Clinton is possibly the most investigated public figure in American politics, maybe world politics, and all you can come up with is all sizzle, no steak, and a hope that a Hail Mary from Wikileaks is going to derail her.

And if it does? When Herr Trump is trashing the most important democratic document ever written and maybe some of the lads in Worcester and Boston are being taken away to ICE internment camps as well as the Muslims and Mexicans, when you need to keep your Green Card close in case you still have your accent, when ethnicity rather than character is the guarantor of American Citizenship - I hope your vote for Jill Stein makes sure that your conscience is clean. Washing your hands of it doesn't wash.

Maybe using a hammer wasn't so important, after all?

67% of voters find her untrustworthy......and that's from a NY Times/CBS poll.

These  people actually live here, vote here, pay taxes here and are exposed to all different types of media.....not just CNN and the NYT

http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/07/15/nytcbs-poll-hillarys-untrustworthy-rating-soars-to-67-percent-n2192807

That's a whole lot of people who don't trust her.....it's not just right wing nut jobs or people who watch Fox News who dont trust her.

So when I went into the booth yesterday, I had actually thought about voting for Trump just to annoy the Uber liberal PC brigade in our town, but to your point (but from another angle) I felt that it would help legitimize his candidacy if I did so, so I protest voted for Jill Stein....I would have voted for Bernie (like I did in the primary).....but then I remembered, he got cheated out of the nomination by Clintons cohorts who employed all sorts of nasty tricks










Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 11:09:28 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2016, 01:18:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

You are as arrogant as that kn**ker gallbladder!

Do you really believe You know more about America than Americans do?

You played golf over there, whoopdee fookin doo.

The word gobdhite springs to,mind, you have lost the run,of yourself!

Can you read at all Stew?

I said we (Irish people who travel - like yourself) would know more about PARTS of the US than many Americans do. I gave an example of Americans who had never left their state (California). It wouldn't take much to know more about Parts of the other 49 States than them would it? Especially since I lived in two of them.

'I know more about America than Amercians do' is a massive twisting of what I said. I didn't even use the word 'I' in that sentence.

If you calmed down for a second and read things properly it might save a lot of stress for yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 25, 2016, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 25, 2016, 07:45:20 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2016, 01:18:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 25, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
Its a 2 horse race, and you are cheering against one of them in almost all of yours posts.

We ploughed this ground before...Im cheering against one of them because most Irish people on my Facebook feed are all cheering for Hillary without knowing a fvcking thing about her


Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

Bertie's country wasn't the sole world superpower now was it?

And not every American has an Irish cousin, but the reverse almost universally applies. Also, an awful lot of Irish have been on the States for J1s, holidays and work.

We know far more about parts of the US than many Americans. I have played golf over there with people who had never left their State.

You are as arrogant as that kn**ker gallbladder!

Do you really believe You know more about America than Americans do?

You played golf over there, whoopdee fookin doo.

The word gobdhite springs to,mind, you have lost the run,of yourself!

PMSL - Brilliant :D

Surprised he didn't elaborate on how he got course record 62 on his first try at Augusta but it doesn't get recorded as he's an amateur.
Full of it.

Me shooting a 62 in Augusta is about as realistic as your Sinn Fein/Conservative political ideology.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 27, 2016, 02:23:19 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states.

Bullshit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2016, 07:40:27 AM
What is the big deal about Benghazi ?

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were marked by easy wins followed by criminal levels of neglect that allowed the Taliban and the Sunnis to develop insurgencies.

1500 vets have lost their testicles to IEDs placed at waist height. 128,000 vet suicides since 199

Nobody in DC gives a f**k about the soldiers or their families. That covers both parties
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 27, 2016, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

It may seem amazing to people outside the States, but there are people who actually believe Trump's lunacy. Bigly time!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2016, 01:37:09 PM
Trump moaning about vote rigging is rich

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2013/02/26/roberts-court-vs-voting-rights/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:41:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 27, 2016, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

It may seem amazing to people outside the States, but there are people who actually believe Trump's lunacy. Bigly time!

I wouldn't mind, but Hillary is such a flawed candidate.

Why do they need to resort to the tin foil hat lunacy which doesn't withstand even a schoolkid's level of scrutiny??

He may be an odious insect and a pox on society, but you have to hand it to the likes of Alex Jones - he certainly knows how to make a handsome living out of exploiting the dumb, paranoid, white, right wing  male section of US society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine

Not the same thing at all!

On the one hand you have a bunch of technology-challenged old geezers who mistakenly pull the lever for Buchanan.

On the other, you have the paranoid, fact- and logic-free memes, such as this Soros voting machine, which repeatedly spread through the gullible right wing like an infection.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2016, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine

Not the same thing at all!

On the one hand you have a bunch of technology-challenged old geezers who mistakenly pull the lever for Buchanan.

On the other, you have the paranoid, fact- and logic-free memes, such as this Soros voting machine, which repeatedly spread through the gullible right wing like an infection.


They did a test run in Palm Beach and had a bunch of kids in Junior Infants take part in a mock election and if I recall correctly 100 % of them were able to figure out how to vote properly

You can just never admit that some Dems are just as fvckin stupid as some Republicans....I knew you'd get your hair on fire about the butterfly ballot....that's why I threw it out there../.LOL

(If it makes any difference I lived in Palm Beach County from 2001 to 2003 so I heard about it from people who actually were involved in the recount....on both sides)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2016, 02:14:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine

Not the same thing at all!

On the one hand you have a bunch of technology-challenged old geezers who mistakenly pull the lever for Buchanan.

On the other, you have the paranoid, fact- and logic-free memes, such as this Soros voting machine, which repeatedly spread through the gullible right wing like an infection.


They did a test run in Palm Beach and had a bunch of kids in Junior Infants take part in a mock election and if I recall correctly 100 % of them were able to figure out how to vote properly

You can just never admit that some Dems are just as fvckin stupid as some Republicans....I knew you'd get your hair on fire about the butterfly ballot....that's why I threw it out there../.LOL

What are you talking about??

That old people are idiots when it comes to technology is news to no one, nor is it a partisan issue.

Nor indeed is intelligence, and I have never made that claim.

What is a partisan issue is that there is a reactionary, paranoid, right wing section of US society who are being served by an equally paranoid right wing media and political complex. There is no liberal, Democratic counterpart or equivalent.

Yes, I'm sure you can pull up some idiotic utterance or fringe movement from somewhere, but there is no equivalent that has mainstream acceptance and incorporation on the left to anywhere remotely close to the degree it does on the right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 27, 2016, 03:50:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine

Not the same thing at all!

On the one hand you have a bunch of technology-challenged old geezers who mistakenly pull the lever for Buchanan.

On the other, you have the paranoid, fact- and logic-free memes, such as this Soros voting machine, which repeatedly spread through the gullible right wing like an infection.


They did a test run in Palm Beach and had a bunch of kids in Junior Infants take part in a mock election and if I recall correctly 100 % of them were able to figure out how to vote properly

You can just never admit that some Dems are just as fvckin stupid as some Republicans....I knew you'd get your hair on fire about the butterfly ballot....that's why I threw it out there../.LOL

(If it makes any difference I lived in Palm Beach County from 2001 to 2003 so I heard about it from people who actually were involved in the recount....on both sides)

Whitey it makes no difference to them at all, sure I worked in Manitowoc for many years and knew three of the family of a convicted murderer, and after watching a 10 part biased documentary they knew more about poor Theresa and her murderer than I did.

Liberals on her are always right, their morals are flexible, if they see a law they don't like they ignore it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 27, 2016, 03:54:06 PM
I see they have a clip of Killory giving instructions on how to incite riots atTrump rallies, apparently a bunch of libfucks were being sent out in Donald duck suits to pick fights with the Donalds supporters.

Mad bitch is unfit for office, I hate her!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 27, 2016, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2016, 03:50:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine

Not the same thing at all!

On the one hand you have a bunch of technology-challenged old geezers who mistakenly pull the lever for Buchanan.

On the other, you have the paranoid, fact- and logic-free memes, such as this Soros voting machine, which repeatedly spread through the gullible right wing like an infection.


They did a test run in Palm Beach and had a bunch of kids in Junior Infants take part in a mock election and if I recall correctly 100 % of them were able to figure out how to vote properly

You can just never admit that some Dems are just as fvckin stupid as some Republicans....I knew you'd get your hair on fire about the butterfly ballot....that's why I threw it out there../.LOL

(If it makes any difference I lived in Palm Beach County from 2001 to 2003 so I heard about it from people who actually were involved in the recount....on both sides)

Whitey it makes no difference to them at all, sure I worked in Manitowoc for many years and knew three of the family of a convicted murderer, and after watching a 10 part biased documentary they knew more about poor Theresa and her murderer than I did.

Liberals on her are always right, their morals are flexible, if they see a law they don't like they ignore it!

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/b4/b41847db05cb8fc89a09b7ea25edc26f68529570fee25f3626b9b53d9a5afe8b.jpg)

;D ;D You crack me up stew you maniac!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 27, 2016, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2016, 03:54:06 PM
I see they have a clip of Killory giving instructions on how to incite riots atTrump rallies, apparently a bunch of libfucks were being sent out in Donald duck suits to pick fights with the Donalds supporters.

Mad bitch is unfit for office, I hate her!

So because you lived in Manitowoc, and know 3 of the family, only you can comment on Dassey and Avery.

Presumably you have lived near Hillary for years and know her family too?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on October 27, 2016, 04:34:10 PM
  FA critique of DT using puppets.  Funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQmbttoxUeE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 27, 2016, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 27, 2016, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2016, 03:54:06 PM
I see they have a clip of Killory giving instructions on how to incite riots atTrump rallies, apparently a bunch of libfucks were being sent out in Donald duck suits to pick fights with the Donalds supporters.

Mad bitch is unfit for office, I hate her!

So because you lived in Manitowoc, and know 3 of the family, only you can comment on Dassey and Avery.

Presumably you have lived near Hillary for years and know her family too?

Fairly certain that story about where he worked has changed any number of times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2016, 03:54:06 PM
I see they have a clip of Killory giving instructions on how to incite riots atTrump rallies, apparently a bunch of libfucks were being sent out in Donald duck suits to pick fights with the Donalds supporters.

Mad bitch is unfit for office, I hate her!

Donald Duck suits??

That's terrible!  ;D

Were they using the Donald Duck voice in their provocations?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 27, 2016, 04:52:16 PM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2016, 03:54:06 PM
I see they have a clip of Killory giving instructions on how to incite riots atTrump rallies, apparently a bunch of libfucks were being sent out in Donald duck suits to pick fights with the Donalds supporters.

Mad bitch is unfit for office, I hate her!

Do you have a link to this clip, I'd love to see it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 27, 2016, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: dec on October 27, 2016, 04:52:16 PM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2016, 03:54:06 PM
I see they have a clip of Killory giving instructions on how to incite riots atTrump rallies, apparently a bunch of libfucks were being sent out in Donald duck suits to pick fights with the Donalds supporters.

Mad bitch is unfit for office, I hate her!

Do you have a link to this clip, I'd love to see it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3867558/Democratic-operative-caught-camera-Hillary-PERSONALLY-ordered-Donald-Duck-troll-campaign-broke-law-coordinating-tax-exempt-pressure-group.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3867558/Democratic-operative-caught-camera-Hillary-PERSONALLY-ordered-Donald-Duck-troll-campaign-broke-law-coordinating-tax-exempt-pressure-group.html)

It is another O'Keefe story.

There is no mention in that story of Stew's claims 'how to incite riots atTrump rallies' or 'a bunch of libfucks were being sent out in Donald duck suits to pick fights with the Donalds supporters'

I'm sure Stew will provide proof of his violence claims, otherwise it would appear again that he simply reads what he wants to read.

The guy involved seems to think that holding a 'pay your taxes' sign around Trump is not advocating a vote for Hillary (which is illegal due to the group's tax status). That might be on for the courts to determine.

But as usual with the Hillary attacks, there is very little to see here.

More on that here: http://heavy.com/news/2016/10/project-veritas-james-o-keefe-third-video-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-duck-voter-fraud-bob-creamer/ (http://heavy.com/news/2016/10/project-veritas-james-o-keefe-third-video-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-duck-voter-fraud-bob-creamer/)
However, 22,000,000 emails deleted, 500,000 people dead including thousands of Americans. No problem at all. Vote GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2016, 05:45:59 PM
This is my favourite US election video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NPPE6a7mSI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on October 27, 2016, 06:55:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2016, 05:45:59 PM
This is my favourite US election video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NPPE6a7mSI

I watched this one live ....."oral office" a classic  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 27, 2016, 07:29:36 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on October 27, 2016, 06:55:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2016, 05:45:59 PM
This is my favourite US election video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NPPE6a7mSI

I watched this one live ....."oral office" a classic  ;D

The inference that God may have chosen Trump says it all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2016, 08:00:03 PM
They're just admitting that all the bollocks over the years about "character" and "family values" was just that. They're the same as the rest of us, interested in policies and the lesser of two evils. She said so herself with her "horror" about her kids and the "oral office".

So I don't ever want to hear one of these sanctimonious religious gobshites preaching to the American public again about how those issues matter in a candidate. Fuckin hypocrites.

Although one wonders about harlots and Trump being god's tool?

WTF were Hitler and Stalin? Or was her god on holiday around then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 28, 2016, 05:54:00 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2016, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 27, 2016, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2016, 03:54:06 PM
I see they have a clip of Killory giving instructions on how to incite riots atTrump rallies, apparently a bunch of libfucks were being sent out in Donald duck suits to pick fights with the Donalds supporters.

Mad bitch is unfit for office, I hate her!

So because you lived in Manitowoc, and know 3 of the family, only you can comment on Dassey and Avery.

Presumably you have lived near Hillary for years and know her family too?

Fairly certain that story about where he worked has changed any number of times.

It has never changed bladder, I never lived there I had an office there, for years.

Still want an American police officer to,kill me kid?

Stay classy bladder, stay classy!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 10:31:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 02:14:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine

Not the same thing at all!

On the one hand you have a bunch of technology-challenged old geezers who mistakenly pull the lever for Buchanan.

On the other, you have the paranoid, fact- and logic-free memes, such as this Soros voting machine, which repeatedly spread through the gullible right wing like an infection.


They did a test run in Palm Beach and had a bunch of kids in Junior Infants take part in a mock election and if I recall correctly 100 % of them were able to figure out how to vote properly

You can just never admit that some Dems are just as fvckin stupid as some Republicans....I knew you'd get your hair on fire about the butterfly ballot....that's why I threw it out there../.LOL

What are you talking about??

That old people are idiots when it comes to technology is news to no one, nor is it a partisan issue.

Nor indeed is intelligence, and I have never made that claim.

What is a partisan issue is that there is a reactionary, paranoid, right wing section of US society who are being served by an equally paranoid right wing media and political complex. There is no liberal, Democratic counterpart or equivalent.

Yes, I'm sure you can pull up some idiotic utterance or fringe movement from somewhere, but there is no equivalent that has mainstream acceptance and incorporation on the left to anywhere remotely close to the degree it does on the right.
Bill Maher is not paranoid but he is full of shit. Unemployment is not 5%. 14 m new jobs are not good jobs. The economy is not going well. Obama was not a good president.
I think US media has different levels of venality. RTE would be better than any US channel in terms of the public interest. And RTE is mediocre.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 28, 2016, 11:34:48 AM
Alternative perspective http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article45752.htm (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article45752.htm)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2016, 12:05:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 10:31:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 02:14:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine

Not the same thing at all!

On the one hand you have a bunch of technology-challenged old geezers who mistakenly pull the lever for Buchanan.

On the other, you have the paranoid, fact- and logic-free memes, such as this Soros voting machine, which repeatedly spread through the gullible right wing like an infection.


They did a test run in Palm Beach and had a bunch of kids in Junior Infants take part in a mock election and if I recall correctly 100 % of them were able to figure out how to vote properly

You can just never admit that some Dems are just as fvckin stupid as some Republicans....I knew you'd get your hair on fire about the butterfly ballot....that's why I threw it out there../.LOL

What are you talking about??

That old people are idiots when it comes to technology is news to no one, nor is it a partisan issue.

Nor indeed is intelligence, and I have never made that claim.

What is a partisan issue is that there is a reactionary, paranoid, right wing section of US society who are being served by an equally paranoid right wing media and political complex. There is no liberal, Democratic counterpart or equivalent.

Yes, I'm sure you can pull up some idiotic utterance or fringe movement from somewhere, but there is no equivalent that has mainstream acceptance and incorporation on the left to anywhere remotely close to the degree it does on the right.
Bill Maher is not paranoid but he is full of shit. Unemployment is not 5%. 14 m new jobs are not good jobs. The economy is not going well. Obama was not a good president.
I think US media has different levels of venality. RTE would be better than any US channel in terms of the public interest. And RTE is mediocre.

Bill Mayer is a comedian who is full of shit sometimes and on the money other times. What he isn't is a major politician indulging conspiracy theories like Jade Helm, birtherism, Muslims, outrage over faked videos, science etc. etc.

As for Obama's presidency, time will tell, either way. He inherited a world of shit and unprecedented GOP obstruction.

I don't what you're on about with the unemployment rate thing. Is that a conspiracy? Is it being calculated differently to how it was done in the past?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 12:09:05 PM
The unemployment calculations leave out a lot of people who have fallen out of the stats. The rate is closer to 10% . Blue collar Americans know the economy is in trouble. They live it.
Fox is insane but the liberal channels do not serve the public interest very well either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 12:13:10 PM
The Evangelicals are a huge problem. I was talking to someone recently about scientific insights into mammal behaviour and how it could be relevant to humans and he said there could be no link. Intelligent design.
It is like Ashers bakery but with 90m people. And they are lied to 24/7. There are so few facts on Planet Fox.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2016, 01:13:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 12:09:05 PM
The unemployment calculations leave out a lot of people who have fallen out of the stats. The rate is closer to 10% . Blue collar Americans know the economy is in trouble. They live it.
Fox is insane but the liberal channels do not serve the public interest very well either.

Again, is it different to how it's always been calculated?

Labour force participation rates are also published. They're down 3% over the past 8 years. Half of that drop is simply down to the relatively large baby boomer cohort starting to retire, the rest to the economic downturn. So it was going to start dropping somewhat anyway. The economic situation made it more severe when some people simply gave up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 01:28:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2016, 01:13:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 12:09:05 PM
The unemployment calculations leave out a lot of people who have fallen out of the stats. The rate is closer to 10% . Blue collar Americans know the economy is in trouble. They live it.
Fox is insane but the liberal channels do not serve the public interest very well either.

Again, is it different to how it's always been calculated?

Labour force participation rates are also published. They're down 3% over the past 8 years. Half of that drop is simply down to the relatively large baby boomer cohort starting to retire, the rest to the economic downturn. So it was going to start dropping somewhat anyway. The economic situation made it more severe when some people simply gave up.

It is not different  I think the problem is the calculation is no longer suitable for what is happening in the economy. Normally low unemployment pushes up wages. But not now. So the economy is stagnating. Same in the UK. Statistics are political. 

The labor participation rate is not just about boomers  The Fed can't generate growth either. It is very messy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on October 28, 2016, 01:40:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2016, 12:05:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 10:31:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 02:14:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine

Not the same thing at all!

On the one hand you have a bunch of technology-challenged old geezers who mistakenly pull the lever for Buchanan.

On the other, you have the paranoid, fact- and logic-free memes, such as this Soros voting machine, which repeatedly spread through the gullible right wing like an infection.


They did a test run in Palm Beach and had a bunch of kids in Junior Infants take part in a mock election and if I recall correctly 100 % of them were able to figure out how to vote properly

You can just never admit that some Dems are just as fvckin stupid as some Republicans....I knew you'd get your hair on fire about the butterfly ballot....that's why I threw it out there../.LOL

What are you talking about??

That old people are idiots when it comes to technology is news to no one, nor is it a partisan issue.

Nor indeed is intelligence, and I have never made that claim.

What is a partisan issue is that there is a reactionary, paranoid, right wing section of US society who are being served by an equally paranoid right wing media and political complex. There is no liberal, Democratic counterpart or equivalent.

Yes, I'm sure you can pull up some idiotic utterance or fringe movement from somewhere, but there is no equivalent that has mainstream acceptance and incorporation on the left to anywhere remotely close to the degree it does on the right.
Bill Maher is not paranoid but he is full of shit. Unemployment is not 5%. 14 m new jobs are not good jobs. The economy is not going well. Obama was not a good president.
I think US media has different levels of venality. RTE would be better than any US channel in terms of the public interest. And RTE is mediocre.

Bill Mayer is a comedian who is full of shit sometimes and on the money other times. What he isn't is a major politician indulging conspiracy theories like Jade Helm, birtherism, Muslims, outrage over faked videos, science etc. etc.

As for Obama's presidency, time will tell, either way. He inherited a world of shit and unprecedented GOP obstruction.

I don't what you're on about with the unemployment rate thing. Is that a conspiracy? Is it being calculated differently to how it was done in the past?

Not to let the facts get in the way of a good story, but didn't the democrats have a majority in congress during this time, and if I am correct was that not when Obamacare was passed.

on a separate point, I believe that unfortunately, a lot of the jobs that are being created today are not high paying jobs, I believe technology and more so increased regulation are the major reasons for this. It is not a good long term situation, in fact it is bad when the divergence between the well off and the less well off continues to increase. However, if you believe that you can tax yourself to prosperity or regulate yourself to prosperity, you are delusional.

Despite Interest rates being at zero for past five years, GDP growth is still below 2%. Cannot blame 2008 2009 for all that. I think there is a serious lack of confidence by businesses both big and small and that is causing a serious lack of new business investment. They would rather increase dividends or do stock repurchase programs rather than expand in the U.S.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2016, 02:44:18 PM
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-calif-guard-bonus-20161027-story.html

I believe the military industrial complex is finally going to come under serious pressure.  I'm not at all surprised at this bullshit.

As the father of 2 boys I would actively discourage them from serving in the military. (And they have older cousins who they Idolise who fought in both Afghanistan and Iraq)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 28, 2016, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 28, 2016, 01:40:26 PM
Not to let the facts get in the way of a good story, but didn't the democrats have a majority in congress during this time, and if I am correct was that not when Obamacare was passed.

on a separate point, I believe that unfortunately, a lot of the jobs that are being created today are not high paying jobs, I believe technology and more so increased regulation are the major reasons for this. It is not a good long term situation, in fact it is bad when the divergence between the well off and the less well off continues to increase. However, if you believe that you can tax yourself to prosperity or regulate yourself to prosperity, you are delusional.

Despite Interest rates being at zero for past five years, GDP growth is still below 2%. Cannot blame 2008 2009 for all that. I think there is a serious lack of confidence by businesses both big and small and that is causing a serious lack of new business investment. They would rather increase dividends or do stock repurchase programs rather than expand in the U.S.

Has anyone, ever, anywhere, claimed that 'you can tax your way to prosperity'?

However if you are going to show concern for 'the divergence between the well off and the less well off', then tax is the only real  mechanism we have to balance the problem.

As for this: "Despite Interest rates being at zero for past five years, GDP growth is still below 2%. Cannot blame 2008 2009 for all that."

See the Japanese crash of 1991. GDP and Interest rates have barely moved since. Also see the EU and Britain. All stuck in the mire due to economic crashes which followed property-related crashes. So I would agree blaming 2008, 2009 is, if anything, too simplistic. That was the crash, the problem was the build up to 2008.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 04:35:03 PM
You can tax your way to.prosperity. They did it in the 50s. Taxed the rich and got them to STFU for a generation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 28, 2016, 05:33:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 04:35:03 PM
You can tax your way to.prosperity. They did it in the 50s. Taxed the rich and got them to STFU for a generation.

That is not 'taxing your way to prosperity', that is taxing someone else for your prosperity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 05:59:29 PM
Great rational discussion on the topic

Waking Up with Sam Harris
#49 — The Lesser Evil

https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/49-the-lesser-evil (https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/49-the-lesser-evil)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 28, 2016, 06:09:57 PM
Fbi reopening email investigation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 28, 2016, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 28, 2016, 06:09:57 PM
Fbi reopening email investigation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/28/fbi-probe-newly-discovered-hillary-clinton-emails-and-reopen-inv/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/28/fbi-probe-newly-discovered-hillary-clinton-emails-and-reopen-inv/)

'Trump hails news 'bigger than Watergate'.

What would definitely be bigger than Watergate is if he actually knew what the investigation was about!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 28, 2016, 08:10:06 PM
https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/792054330853564416 (https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/792054330853564416)

Now 'sources' saying that FBI wouldn't characterise it as 're-opening' the investigation. That after every news outlet in the world has put that in their headline and Trump is already stating it as a fact.

At this stage I am so fed up with the brainlessness of it all, that I want Trump to win. Too much of the US needs to learn the lesson very badly.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2016, 08:14:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 28, 2016, 08:10:06 PM
https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/792054330853564416 (https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/792054330853564416)

Now 'sources' saying that FBI wouldn't characterise it as 're-opening' the investigation. That after every news outlet in the world has put that in their headline and Trump is already stating it as a fact.

At this stage I am so fed up with the brainlessness of it all, that I want Trump to win. Too much of the US needs to learn the lesson very badly.

There was a rumour circulating online last night that they were coming very close to recovering the 33k deleted emails......$hit may be about to get real very soon for Hillary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 28, 2016, 08:31:16 PM
some interesting opinions on this one.

(Not sure what it has to do with Russia though Donald.)

I think for the GOP this may help in some congressional races, but that the ship has sailed on the Presidency.

There have been so many attempts to find the smoking gun, that it is hard to believe that it is there at this point, no matter how much you want it to be.

The blood is in the water for the Dems, at this point Hillary has more of her money spent this month than the Trumpster. Will it be enough to tip senate and congress? Probably not

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 28, 2016, 08:43:34 PM
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/anthony-weiner-sexting-investigation (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/anthony-weiner-sexting-investigation)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 28, 2016, 11:03:12 PM
The usual dumbed down suspects have replied, so dumb they even classify me as right wing when I clearly consider the Bush and Clinton Crime families as equals (partners in drug running in Mena, Arkansas and that's just for beginners). The Democrats and Republicans as one in the disguise of two, boy has Trump upset their little club.  Part of me hopes that evil Hillary wins, it's what these dumb asses deserve.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 29, 2016, 02:13:36 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 28, 2016, 11:03:12 PM
The usual dumbed down suspects have replied, so dumb they even classify me as right wing when I clearly consider the Bush and Clinton Crime families as equals (partners in drug running in Mena, Arkansas and that's just for beginners). The Democrats and Republicans as one in the disguise of two, boy has Trump upset their little club.  Part of me hopes that evil Hillary wins, it's what these dumb asses deserve.

Seamus, hard to know where to even start with this one.

You're saying you hope trump wins to upset the political cronyism in the US.

Tad extreme there perhaps?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2016, 09:28:04 AM
13 minutes of Clinton lying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI

At 4.23 the Benghazi stuff is on. they contrast how much email activity there was in 2011 while she got the war on and how much from 2012 to when the attack happened.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2013/03/07/warrior-petraeus/ "the history of President Bush's two wars. Each began with a quick victory followed by a long period of feckless neglect in Washington while the Sunnis in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan organized insurgencies."

Libya was EXACTLY the same. She runs wars for the Zionists and the 1% and then ignores the aftermath. That is why she is so dangerous.

I think Stew is right
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2016, 09:29:02 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/style/know-your-meme-pepe-the-frog-nasty-woman-presidential-election.html
 
Internet memes, the viral in-jokes of online culture, have emerged as a potent force in the presidential race, serving to build up and tear down candidates.
Brad Kim, the editor of Know Your Meme, a website that dissects the viral phenomenon, has been tracking each political season since 2008, when he was a student at New York University.
He spoke from his office in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, about how memes have become a dog whistle of this election cycle, and their impact on Election Day.
Q. When did memes become a force in American politics?
A. The 2008 election was the light-bulb moment. Campaigns were trying to reach out to younger voters on emergent social media platforms like YouTube and Facebook. Shepard Fairey's "Hope" poster went viral, inspired countless parodies and was an early breakthrough that shed a light on social media's potential for crowdsourced campaigning.
There were also so-called "single serving" sites like Barack Obama Is Your New Bicycle, which really blew up. That was a very simply laid-out website that would display randomly generated non sequiturs that portrayed Barack Obama as your helpful next-door neighbor, like, "Barack Obama warmed up your car for you," or "Barack Obama left a message on your blog."
The general message was: Barack Obama is good for you, he is in tune with the social media generation.
Photo



The "Nasty Woman" meme took off after Donald J. Trump's remark to Hillary Clinton at the third presidential debate.
Were Republicans able to counter with memes of their own?
In 2008, memes were simply a P.R. nightmare for the Republican Party. Most of them were satires of Sarah Palin. She was one of the first major candidates to be perceived as a loose cannon and as a sound-bite generator that ultimately worked against the party.
A hashtag that really took off was #AccordingtoPalin, which was just a running joke about remarks that she had made that were very questionable, like, "You can see Russia from Alaska."
So surely the G.O.P. learned its lesson by 2012?
As far as memes go, 2012 was an even bigger nightmare for the Republicans. Obama had a comfortable lead for most of the way, and Occupy Wall Street was a grass-roots movement that really saturated social media and aligned sentiment against rich guys in general.
A lot of memes ended up portraying Mitt Romney as the Sith Lord of America. The "binders full of women" line from the town hall debate was a prime example. Within 24 hours, that gaffe turned into a full-blown meme, mostly in the form of captioned image parodies.
What's new this year?
From what we've observed so far, memes are no longer treated as nuisances, although they still can be. We've seen memes play a vital role in crafting a powerful cult of personalities for Bernie Sanders and Donald J. Trump.
Sanders seemed to come out of nowhere this year. Were memes a factor?
If I had to pick one thing that was the most unique this year, it was the idolization of Bernie Sanders through meme caricatures.
NYT Living Newsletter
Get lifestyle news from the Style, Travel and Food sections, from the latest trends to news you can use.


Sign Up

Receive occasional updates and special offers for The New York Times's products and services.


See Sample Privacy Policy
Two of the most popular ones were Barnie Sandlers and Bernie Sanders' Dank Meme Stash, two Facebook pages that operated on the same joke, that Bernie was running on a pro-meme platform. People would cut and paste text onto promotional materials, like official Sanders fliers, so it would seem as if Bernie was making insightful comments on the state of memes, as opposed to the state of politics.
Ultimately, they helped provide him an exceptionally large online following, in comparison with his actual delegate count.
What about with Donald Trump?
This year, meme culture has outgrown its longstanding, left-leaning edge. Reddit, for example, has a sub-Reddit page called The_Donald, which is one of the fastest growing pro-Trump communities. There is also 4chan's /pol/-Politically Incorrect page.
Donald Trump himself has been a major factor. No other candidate in modern U.S. election history has had such an openly antagonistic relationship with the news media and a high level of disregard for Beltway conventions. Memes have been his way to take his message straight to the people.
Which brings us to Pepe the Frog. How did this cartoon frog take off?
Pepe is an internet symbol that has been around for years. He was a character in the comic "Boy's Club" by Matt Furie, and he used to be known as "Feels Bad Man," because he looked so sad.
Feels Bad Man frog inspired many spinoffs over the years, but until 2015, he was a symbol of sad-sack, beta-male singledom for users of 4chan. That site is widely described as the "cesspool" of the internet. It is basically a locker room full of a bunch of single dudes commiserating over their social awkwardness.
Photo



Pepe the Frog became political when Mr. Trump endorsed it by retweeting a Trump version of the character.
So how did Pepe become a Trump symbol?
Pepe didn't become political until Donald Trump endorsed it by retweeting a Trump version of the character, which led to a mass influx of pro-Trump Pepes.
You have to consider social media's political climate leading up to 2016, which has been heavily marked by the gender war and identity politics. These things led to the emergence of a reactionary movement, namely the alt-right, and Trump was kind of the natural poster boy for that.
Pepe plugged into the ideology of the alt-right because it was a reaction against the people they call "normies." Pepe had been a symbol of the disenfranchised, social outcasts. It was Trump's natural audience.
Pretty soon there was a huge influx of racist Pepe memes from 4chan and The_Donald community on Reddit. But the real trigger point that led to mass production of Nazi and other offensive Pepes was after Hillary Clinton released a denouncement of the meme, which is a milestone in meme history.
No meme has ever been denounced by a presidential candidate. In a way, Pepe serves as a social media dog whistle for Trump followers to echo their implicit support of ultraconservative beliefs in public forums without risking the invitation of backlash.
Is there a meme shared by supporters of both major party candidates?
One that has been used by both sides is "This Is Fine" dog. It's a web comic by K. C. Green, of a dog sitting in a room engulfed in flames, but he says, "This is fine."
This is how many American voters feel about the state of affairs in this year's election. They think the world is ending.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 29, 2016, 12:53:40 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 28, 2016, 01:40:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2016, 12:05:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 10:31:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 02:14:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 27, 2016, 02:21:09 AM
Voter rigging rampant in Texas. Soros voting machines in 16 crucial states. We are going to get yet another selected President.

FFS ;D

No more than the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach in 2000, a bunch of old fvcks don't know how to operate a voting machine

Not the same thing at all!

On the one hand you have a bunch of technology-challenged old geezers who mistakenly pull the lever for Buchanan.

On the other, you have the paranoid, fact- and logic-free memes, such as this Soros voting machine, which repeatedly spread through the gullible right wing like an infection.


They did a test run in Palm Beach and had a bunch of kids in Junior Infants take part in a mock election and if I recall correctly 100 % of them were able to figure out how to vote properly

You can just never admit that some Dems are just as fvckin stupid as some Republicans....I knew you'd get your hair on fire about the butterfly ballot....that's why I threw it out there../.LOL

What are you talking about??

That old people are idiots when it comes to technology is news to no one, nor is it a partisan issue.

Nor indeed is intelligence, and I have never made that claim.

What is a partisan issue is that there is a reactionary, paranoid, right wing section of US society who are being served by an equally paranoid right wing media and political complex. There is no liberal, Democratic counterpart or equivalent.

Yes, I'm sure you can pull up some idiotic utterance or fringe movement from somewhere, but there is no equivalent that has mainstream acceptance and incorporation on the left to anywhere remotely close to the degree it does on the right.
Bill Maher is not paranoid but he is full of shit. Unemployment is not 5%. 14 m new jobs are not good jobs. The economy is not going well. Obama was not a good president.
I think US media has different levels of venality. RTE would be better than any US channel in terms of the public interest. And RTE is mediocre.

Bill Mayer is a comedian who is full of shit sometimes and on the money other times. What he isn't is a major politician indulging conspiracy theories like Jade Helm, birtherism, Muslims, outrage over faked videos, science etc. etc.

As for Obama's presidency, time will tell, either way. He inherited a world of shit and unprecedented GOP obstruction.

I don't what you're on about with the unemployment rate thing. Is that a conspiracy? Is it being calculated differently to how it was done in the past?

Not to let the facts get in the way of a good story, but didn't the democrats have a majority in congress during this time, and if I am correct was that not when Obamacare was passed.

The Dems had a congressional majority for the first two years of his presidency. He's been in power for almost eight years. Are you're denying that the GOP brought obstructionism to a new high (low?). It started from day one, especially in the Senate which had a filibuster-proof majority for about 3 months of that 09-11 congress. Even now, before the election, they're talking about Clinton NOT being able to fill Scalia's supreme court seat. After holding up Obama's appointee since March because apparently the American people should get to choose the appointee by electing a new president.

Quote from: joemamas on October 28, 2016, 01:40:26 PM
on a separate point, I believe that unfortunately, a lot of the jobs that are being created today are not high paying jobs, I believe technology and more so increased regulation are the major reasons for this. It is not a good long term situation, in fact it is bad when the divergence between the well off and the less well off continues to increase. However, if you believe that you can tax yourself to prosperity or regulate yourself to prosperity, you are delusional.

Despite Interest rates being at zero for past five years, GDP growth is still below 2%. Cannot blame 2008 2009 for all that. I think there is a serious lack of confidence by businesses both big and small and that is causing a serious lack of new business investment. They would rather increase dividends or do stock repurchase programs rather than expand in the U.S.

So, for the sake of argument, what regulations need to go to help fuel growth (I've asked you this before)?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 29, 2016, 01:00:40 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 28, 2016, 11:03:12 PM
The usual dumbed down suspects have replied, so dumb they even classify me as right wing when I clearly consider the Bush and Clinton Crime families as equals (partners in drug running in Mena, Arkansas and that's just for beginners). The Democrats and Republicans as one in the disguise of two, boy has Trump upset their little club.  Part of me hopes that evil Hillary wins, it's what these dumb asses deserve.

Don't worry, Soros and his evil minions and voting machines are working on it even as we speak.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2016, 02:30:18 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/25/down-goes-trump-toward-humiliating-defeat/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2016, 10:16:50 AM
http://europe.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-emails-fbi-comey-donald-trump-anthony-weiner-huma-abedin-514918?rm=eu (http://europe.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-emails-fbi-comey-donald-trump-anthony-weiner-huma-abedin-514918?rm=eu)

...The disclosure by the Federal Bureau of Investigation late on Friday, October 28 that it had discovered potential new evidence in its inquiry into Hillary Clinton's handling of her personal email when she was Secretary of State has virtually nothing to do with any actions taken by the Democratic nominee, according to government records and an official with knowledge of the investigation, who spoke to Newsweek on condition of anonymity....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/comey-wrote-bombshell-letter-to-congress-before-fbi-had-reviewed-new-emails-220219586.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/comey-wrote-bombshell-letter-to-congress-before-fbi-had-reviewed-new-emails-220219586.html)

...At the time Comey wrote the letter, "he had no idea what was in the content of the emails," one of the officials said, referring to recently discovered emails that were found on the laptop of disgraced ex-Rep. Anthony Weiner, the estranged husband of top Clinton aide Huma Abedin. Weiner is under investigation for allegedly sending illicit text messages to a 15-year-old girl.

As of Saturday night, the FBI was still in talks with the Justice Department about obtaining a warrant that would allow agency officials to read any of the newly discovered Abedin emails, and therefore was still in the dark about whether they include any classified material that the bureau has not already seen....

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 30, 2016, 11:48:08 AM
Is any significant number of people REALLY going to be swayed away from Clinton at this point by the POSSIBILITY that additional emails have been discovered?

The issue has dogged her for almost two years. Unless someone has been hiding in a cave or in a coma, they already know she is hypersecretive and thinks she is above the law. Unless some new emails emerge showing something damaging, I don't see how this can make much difference, ESPECIALLY given the alternative.

Similarly, are the emergence of new allegations of Trump groping/sexually assaulting women every few days making any difference at this point? Anyone who cares has considered the information already.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 30, 2016, 11:52:22 AM
Huma Abedin signed under penalty of perjury that she had returned ALL devices contains work related email.

Her douchbag husband supposedly sexted a 15 year old girl and is under federal investigation

When the Feds confiscated HIS computer, they found HER emails.....which is absolutely scandalous, as he would have ZERO security clearance.

What's even scarier is that she didn't even know they were on there.

It is very possible that there is nothing new from an email standpoint, but if this came out after the fact, I can't even imagine what would have happened

What impact will it have.....we'll probably not zero....and IMHO it may impact down ticket races as much as the presidential election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2016, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 11:52:22 AM
She signed under penalty of perjury that she had returned ALL devices contains work related email.

Her douchbag husband supposedly sexted a 15 year old girl and is under federal investigation

When the Feds confiscated HIS computer, they found HER emails.....which is absolutely scandalous, as he would have ZERO security clearance.

What's even scarier is that she didn't even know they were on there.

It is very possible that there is nothing new from an email standpoint, but if this came out after the fact, I can't even imagine what would have happened

What impact will it have.....we'll probably not zero....and IMHO it may impact down ticket races as much as the presidential election.

Just to bring some much needed clarity....

Who is the she you are talking about?

And are wives not allowed email their husbands?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 30, 2016, 12:00:56 PM
Human Abedin


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2016, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 12:00:56 PM
Human Abedin

Cheers.

And also to clarify, the FBI don't know what is in her emails, as they haven't yet received authority from the Justice Department to look at them (as Abedin is not under investigation so no 'probable cause') and they definitely haven't a clue if there is anything to do with Hillary's emails in them.

Do you disagree with any of that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 30, 2016, 12:27:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2016, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 12:00:56 PM
Human Abedin

Cheers.

And also to clarify, the FBI don't know what is in her emails, as they haven't yet received authority from the Justice Department to look at them (as Abedin is not under investigation so no 'probable cause') and they definitely haven't a clue if there is anything to do with Hillary's emails in them.

Do you disagree with any of that?

To the contrary....this actually could widen the scope of the investigation

"Probable cause" for reading them is the fact that Huma lied under the penalty of perjury that she returned all devices containing work email.

It is also possible (and likely) that the Feds have now discovered previously undisclosed email accounts Huma used to conduct work email.......that could be a HUGE problem for them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 30, 2016, 01:10:11 PM
The democrats are rotten to the core, again Clinton should be in prison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 30, 2016, 10:16:20 PM
Quote from: stew on October 30, 2016, 01:10:11 PM
The democrats are rotten to the core, again Clinton should be in prison.

Zzzzz change the record stew you and your conservative colleagues have failed again 8 more years get used to it!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2016, 10:35:00 PM
Clinton is rotten. The US will soon be as incoherent as the UK. The 2 countries that implemented Thatcherism in full are now trina cheile.

A few good comments from the FT

Nicki 43 minutes ago
It says a lot about the US that they have two candidates from whom the other side cannot accept defeat.  It is two countries.  Making America great again is an impossible task.

'postmodern-fox 2 hours ago
The DNC is ultimately at fault for pushing this nomination. It was obviously out of touch from the start. A total misread of the zeitgeist.

TheMule61 3 hours ago
Warning: This is not an endorsement of Trump.

Ultimately, the common thread in all of Hillary's problems her entire political career is that she feels she doesn't have to follow the same rules and laws that she herself uses to destroy her rivals.  She's broken too many rules.  Thrown too many people under the bus.  Told too many lies.  And made too many enemies.  Sooner or later, everyone will abandon the Clintons whether she wins the presidency or not.  She's just a bad seed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2016, 11:05:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 12:27:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2016, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 12:00:56 PM
Human Abedin

Cheers.

And also to clarify, the FBI don't know what is in her emails, as they haven't yet received authority from the Justice Department to look at them (as Abedin is not under investigation so no 'probable cause') and they definitely haven't a clue if there is anything to do with Hillary's emails in them.

Do you disagree with any of that?

To the contrary....this actually could widen the scope of the investigation

"Probable cause" for reading them is the fact that Huma lied under the penalty of perjury that she returned all devices containing work email.

It is also possible (and likely) that the Feds have now discovered previously undisclosed email accounts Huma used to conduct work email.......that could be a HUGE problem for them

But none of your theory matches what is being said, albeit 'by sources' close to the investigation.

Firstly, even your theory doesn't include Hillary.

Secondly, the rumour is that Huma's laptop contained emails from her personal Yahoo account.

Thirdly, it appears she sent emails to that account as for some reason she couldn't print stuff from her work account.

Finally it may be the case, it remains to be seen, that all of those emails were previously realised and thus already examined.

There may be an issue that her husband might have accessed her laptop and that from there he had access to her Yahoo account. If they can prove that he did that, and that he accessed her Yahoo address, and that while there he read classified material, then there may be an issue. Particularly for him.

But why is Trump using the above to call Hillary the most corrupt person in the history of the USA? This doesn't even come close to the 12 real women making allegations against Trump, something the FBI appears to have no interest in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on October 30, 2016, 11:15:17 PM
Anthony Weiner is the gift that keeps on giving for the Trump campaign. I had to laugh on Friday when Trump called him a "Perv", you know you're pretty perverted when even Donald Trump can recognize it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 30, 2016, 11:26:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2016, 11:05:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 12:27:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 30, 2016, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 12:00:56 PM
Human Abedin

Cheers.

And also to clarify, the FBI don't know what is in her emails, as they haven't yet received authority from the Justice Department to look at them (as Abedin is not under investigation so no 'probable cause') and they definitely haven't a clue if there is anything to do with Hillary's emails in them.

Do you disagree with any of that?

To the contrary....this actually could widen the scope of the investigation

"Probable cause" for reading them is the fact that Huma lied under the penalty of perjury that she returned all devices containing work email.

It is also possible (and likely) that the Feds have now discovered previously undisclosed email accounts Huma used to conduct work email.......that could be a HUGE problem for them

But none of your theory matches what is being said, albeit 'by sources' close to the investigation.

Firstly, even your theory doesn't include Hillary.

Secondly, the rumour is that Huma's laptop contained emails from her personal Yahoo account.

Thirdly, it appears she sent emails to that account as for some reason she couldn't print stuff from her work account.

Finally it may be the case, it remains to be seen, that all of those emails were previously realised and thus already examined.

There may be an issue that her husband might have accessed her laptop and that from there he had access to her Yahoo account. If they can prove that he did that, and that he accessed her Yahoo address, and that while there he read classified material, then there may be an issue. Particularly for him.

But why is Trump using the above to call Hillary the most corrupt person in the history of the USA? This doesn't even come close to the 12 real women making allegations against Trump, something the FBI appears to have no interest in.

The warrants have just been issued for the FBI to start going through the 650,000 emails (both Huma and Weiners going back over a decade) so time will tell what, if anything of relevance is in there.  Obviously, someone, somehere found "probable cause" to issue the warrant

My guess (and its just that) is that some of Hillarys 30,000 deleted "personal" emails will be uncovered in this part of the probe, and (again Im guessing) if any of these emails are deemed NOT to be "personal" a whole torrent of $hit will descend upon Hillary.

Huma testified under oath that she had turned in all devices.......but somehow she didnt know her emails were on this one.....which (completely giving her the benefit of the doubt) tells me that she had some seldom used account which she occasionally used to print stuff up....the question is (and again Im guessing) did iHillary email her on this seldom used personal a/c and were these emails turned over or were they deleted.

Either way....this is a huge problem for them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on October 30, 2016, 11:32:47 PM
Whitey, get out of the Fox echo chamber while you can. People will take you more seriously if you do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 30, 2016, 11:36:27 PM
Quote from: maigheo on October 30, 2016, 11:32:47 PM
Whitey, get out of the Fox echo chamber while you can. People will take you more seriously if you do.

I made a prediction last week about something huge breaking before the election and you guys laughed at me.......keep laughing


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/30/post-abc-poll-finds-tight-presidential-race-with-mixed-reaction-to-fbis-review-of-clinton-e-mails/

" Just more than 6 in 10 voters say the news will make no difference in their vote, while just more than 3 in 10 say it makes them less likely to support her; 2 percent say they are more likely to back her as a result."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 31, 2016, 12:06:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 11:36:27 PM
Quote from: maigheo on October 30, 2016, 11:32:47 PM
Whitey, get out of the Fox echo chamber while you can. People will take you more seriously if you do.

I made a prediction last week about something huge breaking before the election and you guys laughed at me.......keep laughing


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/30/post-abc-poll-finds-tight-presidential-race-with-mixed-reaction-to-fbis-review-of-clinton-e-mails/

" Just more than 6 in 10 voters say the news will make no difference in their vote, while just more than 3 in 10 say it makes them less likely to support her; 2 percent say they are more likely to back her as a result."

Who was laughing at you?

People were questioning the O'Keefe video shite you were making a big deal out of. We were pointing out that none of the emails to that point were particularly damaging.

How many of those 3/10 are part of the 40-odd% voting for Trump anyway?

I see Harry Reid tonight asking the FBI to comment on their Trump-Russia investigation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 31, 2016, 12:06:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 11:26:10 PM
(completely giving her the benefit of the doubt) tells me that she had some seldom used account which she occasionally used to print stuff up....the question is (and again Im guessing) did iHillary email her on this seldom used personal a/c and were these emails turned over or were they deleted.

Whitey,
I agree with you definitely not great news for the Clinton campaign.

Additionally, it looks like Comey broke the law illegal how the FBI went against DOJ explicit advice despite having the "evidence" for a few weeks and not being allowed to impact an election within 60 days of the vote. Hatch law is pretty clear.

Not sure what you are talking about on the seldom used account theory above - what are you saying she did?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 31, 2016, 12:36:23 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 31, 2016, 12:06:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 11:26:10 PM
(completely giving her the benefit of the doubt) tells me that she had some seldom used account which she occasionally used to print stuff up....the question is (and again Im guessing) did iHillary email her on this seldom used personal a/c and were these emails turned over or were they deleted.

Whitey,
I agree with you definitely not great news for the Clinton campaign.

Additionally, it looks like Comey broke the law illegal how the FBI went against DOJ explicit advice despite having the "evidence" for a few weeks and not being allowed to impact an election within 60 days of the vote. Hatch law is pretty clear.

Not sure what you are talking about on the seldom used account theory above - what are you saying she did?

Justice dept could have expressley prohibited Comey from going public, but didnt.....Why? 

IMHO....and this is a "discussion" board where one offers opinions....Loretta Lynchs credibility and the integrity of the Hillary Email Investigation were seriously comprimised by her private meeting with Bill Clinton at Phoenix Airport.  If she prevented Comey from going public and this all came out after the election, I shudder to think how people (Trumps supporters) would react.

I read somewhere that the Hatch Law doesnt apply in this case.....reasoning went something along the lines of that since Comey had testified under oath on this matter before congress, and material information had since surfaced that contradicted that sworn testimony.....he is then legally obligated to disclosse this new information. (Why the FBI sat on it for weeks I have no idea)

Re the personal email....How does Huma not know that these emails are on her husbands laptop?

One theory is that she lied under oath......but Ill give her the benefit of the doubt in this case

Another theory is that she had a personal email address that she occasionally used to print up emails for Hillary and forgot that she at some point accessed it (at least once) from this laptop......but it was somehow archived on here (it can happen very easily...it happened me)    This would not have been her main email account she used for work....it may be some previously undisclosed personal email account.....that she used for other purposed.

Now due to this misstep by HUma, ALL emails related to this account, both incoming and outgoing are possibly "discoverable"....and rightly so in my opinion.

Will any of Hillarys 30000 deleted "personal" emails be found in this search?

And if they are discovered on here, will there be any "non personal" emails?

If there are, or any other questionable content......then theyre fvcked

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 31, 2016, 12:54:28 AM
To be quite frank, the law expressly forbids Comey from going public, the DOJ's advice was heed the law.

agree with you on the Clinton airplane meeting at best stupid, medium very very suspicious and worst case collaboration

Supreme court has upheld Hatch twice, i can't see any case law or examples of an exemption.

ref the emails, don't know if they have been cached/ stored.

anything after that in your post is complete and utter speculation on your part.

As I've said before, if there was a smoking gun I believe the GOP would know, and I know that wikileaks would have already published it to get the maximum effect, which is why I think that Comey will face the music.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 31, 2016, 01:24:30 AM
Comey is a former White House ethics Lawyer and I assume he also consulted with the FBIs Senior Counsel before proceeding with Fridays release, so I doubt he made the move without serious legal consultations.  He obviously felt confident enough to proceed with the release....only time will tell


Seemingly the DOJ could have legally prevented him from going public but didnt. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 31, 2016, 01:38:59 AM
I do see the case that says that if the FBI did not let congress know it had the emails that would be interfering in the election by doing nothing.

However to send the letter in the first place, without having read the emails or ascertained contents is definitely interfering as prohibited by the act. Nor do they re-open the investigation despite it being portrayed as such. And while you can be damn sure that he sought legal advice, the question is was it good advice, and did he follow it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 31, 2016, 01:50:42 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 31, 2016, 01:38:59 AM
I do see the case that says that if the FBI did not let congress know it had the emails that would be interfering in the election by doing nothing.

However to send the letter in the first place, without having read the emails or ascertained contents is definitely interfering as prohibited by the act. Nor do they re-open the investigation despite it being portrayed as such. And while you can be damn sure that he sought legal advice, the question is was it good advice, and did he follow it?

This does a pretty good job explaining how it went down:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-fbi-director-james-b-comey-was-able-to-defy-justice-bosses-on-clinton-email-announcement/ar-AAjCNd3?ocid=ob-fb-enus-280

"At the end of the day, if you have the FBI director telling Justice that he has an obligation to tell Congress, there is no way you can direct the FBI to do otherwise," said one official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity."That's too fraught. You can't direct someone to withhold information from Congress. That's not a prudent way to do things."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 31, 2016, 02:57:03 AM
Look, ultimately this mess is of Clinton's own doing. If she loses due to this, she can't blame Comey, who was caught in an impossible position. She can't even blame Carlos Danger.  It's down to no one but herself.

It's just a shame that the beneficiary could be probably the most ill-qualified and most unprincipled person ever to seek the office. With her, at worst you have an impotent, mediocre president. Who knows what the f**k Trump will bring on for the country?

And to top it all off, the Supreme Court hangs in the balance for the next generation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2016, 04:14:31 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 31, 2016, 12:06:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 30, 2016, 11:26:10 PM
(completely giving her the benefit of the doubt) tells me that she had some seldom used account which she occasionally used to print stuff up....the question is (and again Im guessing) did iHillary email her on this seldom used personal a/c and were these emails turned over or were they deleted.

Whitey,
I agree with you definitely not great news for the Clinton campaign.

Additionally, it looks like Comey broke the law illegal how the FBI went against DOJ explicit advice despite having the "evidence" for a few weeks and not being allowed to impact an election within 60 days of the vote. Hatch law is pretty clear.

Not sure what you are talking about on the seldom used account theory above - what are you saying she did?
She is her own worst enemy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2016, 07:13:27 PM
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5191463394001/?#sp=show-clips
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on October 31, 2016, 07:18:49 PM
How is the FBI investigation into the 22,000,000 emails deleted by the Bush administration going?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2016, 07:37:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 31, 2016, 07:18:49 PM
How is the FBI investigation into the 22,000,000 emails deleted by the Bush administration going?
Fox are giving the Clinton story legs with their leggy birds
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5191409740001/?#sp=show-clips
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 31, 2016, 09:24:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 31, 2016, 07:18:49 PM
How is the FBI investigation into the 22,000,000 emails deleted by the Bush administration going?

Yyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2016, 09:52:50 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/31/comey-breaks-the-rules-fbi-investigation-clinton/

The second rule Comey violated is even more fundamental. The rule, which has been endorsed by attorneys general of both parties for decades, requires law-enforcement officers to avoid filing even completed indictments against candidates for political office within sixty days of an election. It applies to all elections, from those for local school boards to those for our nation's highest office. The reason for this is that there is too great a risk that the power of the criminal process could interfere in an election, even where—as is decidedly not the case here—prosecutors have sufficient information to indicate that a candidate has committed a crime. That is, even if the FBI had acquired enough evidence to charge Hillary Clinton formally with knowingly transmitting classified information or otherwise violating criminal law, the rule would counsel against making that fact public until after the election. Yet Comey chose to go public, just eleven days before a presidential election, without even a basis for believing the "new" evidence he had come across was actually new, much less evidence of a crime
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 31, 2016, 10:09:18 PM
MUTINY AT THE FBI: Comey warned by his own agents to indict Clinton or watch the FBI's reputation go down in flames

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/055835_James_Comey_FBI_mutiny_Clinton_investigation.html#ixzz4Ohf2iF5W


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 31, 2016, 11:35:11 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 31, 2016, 10:09:18 PM
MUTINY AT THE FBI: Comey warned by his own agents to indict Clinton or watch the FBI's reputation go down in flames

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/055835_James_Comey_FBI_mutiny_Clinton_investigation.html#ixzz4Ohf2iF5W

Word on the street is that the FBI already know what's in the email trove and it's not good for
Hillary......completely unconfirmed at this point of course
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 31, 2016, 11:53:37 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 31, 2016, 10:09:18 PM
MUTINY AT THE FBI: Comey warned by his own agents to indict Clinton or watch the FBI's reputation go down in flames

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/055835_James_Comey_FBI_mutiny_Clinton_investigation.html#ixzz4Ohf2iF5W

FFS, with all the discussion out there you post from a virulent anti-GMO/conspiracy theorist quack, who populates his "article" with:

"...James Comey, long since suspected to be a Clinton operative..."
"Agents inside the FBI, in other words, refuse to allow James Comey to let the agency go down in flames as just another corrupt branch of the "Clinton crime family."
"Because the Oregon ranchers have now been acquitted by a jury, it means FBI head James Comey seems to have ordered the shooting and killing of an innocent man."
"...Comey may have turned the agency toward a lawless armed tyranny that guns down innocent Americans while letting corrupt criminal politicians go free."
"If there's one thing abundantly clear in all this, it's that both Hillary Clinton and Loretta Lynch should be behind bars. Clinton is a lifelong criminal and mafia boss. Lynch is a third-rate attorney who was tossed into the DOJ solely because of her gender and skin color, not her credentials. And neither one respects the laws of America, of course. Both are deeply corrupt."


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 31, 2016, 11:57:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 31, 2016, 11:35:11 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 31, 2016, 10:09:18 PM
MUTINY AT THE FBI: Comey warned by his own agents to indict Clinton or watch the FBI's reputation go down in flames

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/055835_James_Comey_FBI_mutiny_Clinton_investigation.html#ixzz4Ohf2iF5W

Word on the street is that the FBI already know what's in the email trove and it's not good for
Hillary......completely unconfirmed at this point of course

But sure "completely unconfirmed" "word on the street" is all we need to know! ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 01, 2016, 12:26:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2016, 11:57:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 31, 2016, 11:35:11 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 31, 2016, 10:09:18 PM
MUTINY AT THE FBI: Comey warned by his own agents to indict Clinton or watch the FBI's reputation go down in flames

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/055835_James_Comey_FBI_mutiny_Clinton_investigation.html#ixzz4Ohf2iF5W

Word on the street is that the FBI already know what's in the email trove and it's not good for
Hillary......completely unconfirmed at this point of course

But sure "completely unconfirmed" "word on the street" is all we need to know! ;)

Time will tell.  There's a school of thought that says some people at the FBI had a good old fashioned gander at the emails before getting the subpoena, and based on what they saw, that's what pushed Comey to send the letter last Friday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 12:39:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 01, 2016, 12:26:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2016, 11:57:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 31, 2016, 11:35:11 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 31, 2016, 10:09:18 PM
MUTINY AT THE FBI: Comey warned by his own agents to indict Clinton or watch the FBI's reputation go down in flames

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/055835_James_Comey_FBI_mutiny_Clinton_investigation.html#ixzz4Ohf2iF5W

Word on the street is that the FBI already know what's in the email trove and it's not good for
Hillary......completely unconfirmed at this point of course

But sure "completely unconfirmed" "word on the street" is all we need to know! ;)

Time will tell.  There's a school of thought that says some people at the FBI had a good old fashioned gander at the emails before getting the subpoena, and based on what they saw, that's what pushed Comey to send the letter last Friday.

Jokes aside, you would have to think that, especially if they'd had them for a few weeks before he acted.

Question is what though, given that Comey opted out of indicting last time.

President Timothy Kaine anyone??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 01, 2016, 12:49:16 AM
Speculation is that the deleted emails are in there.....and they're not all about yoga classes, Chelsea's Wedding or her mothers funeral.

It is also reported (but unconfirmed) that at some point Huma backed up her contacts on that laptop. Some box somewhere was checked in her email profile that started automatically backing up all emails onnected to those contacts.....that's how she didn't know they were on there (which makes perfect
sense)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 01:05:22 AM
Dan Abrams on the permutations/possibilities if an indictment does come down at some point.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/heres-what-could-happen-if-hillary-clinton-is-indicted-or-steps-down/ (http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/heres-what-could-happen-if-hillary-clinton-is-indicted-or-steps-down/)

He says she theoretically could tough it out if one came down, especially if its post-electoral college proceedings, but seriously, there is no way the Democratic Party could stand behind that. She is facing lame-duck status from day one as it is with the GOP saying they're not going to approve ANY supreme court nominee. If she is indicted, she has to do step down.

f**k me... a Democratic indictment crisis or the chaos and nihilism and spiteful callousness of Trump... :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 01:18:25 AM
First presidential election in over a decade that I haven't put my hand in my pocket (except for sending Bernie a very small sum last spring). Had been thinking about it a little last week, but this shite just finished it!

Would it possible to even make up a worse pairing?

I've been arguing all along on an anti-Trump basis, and Hillary as lesser of two evils, and still lean that way, but I feel nothing short of disgust overall at this stage. This is all self-inflicted on Hillary's part. She's fucked it up for herself and possibly the broader Democratic Party, and we'll have her to thank if the GOP holds Congress or worse, Trump wins. Where the f**k does the country go then? All over an arrogant attempt to get around FOIA laws and avoid scrutiny which every other government worker is subject to.

And I can't even get enthused about either of the two third party candidate. A hybrid of the two maybe, but each has views which are way too far out there. That said, I may yet flip a coin!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:59:50 AM
If true Hillary, Bill and friends will finally be going to jail

https://youtu.be/os4S--dRB-U
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 01, 2016, 07:53:50 AM
Whitey, are you just a hired hand that Stew employs in an attempt to coherently voice his opinion? Every one of your posts is nothing more than conjecture.

"Speculation is that"

"It is also reported"

"There's a school of thought"

"Word on the street is"

Garbage, just completely fabricated garbage without any basis in fact whatsoever.

I almost yearn for the days of Sheehy and his outrageously offensive but logical and understandable positions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 01, 2016, 07:55:26 AM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:59:50 AM
If true Hillary, Bill and friends will finally be going to jail

https://youtu.be/os4S--dRB-U

As much as I despise Clinton I highly doubt she would be caught in a three way with her friend and a teenager, that is off to me.

As for the rest of it, nothing is confirmed and until it is I will reserve judgement, if it is true America is going to get a political purge unlike anything the world has ever seen.

This is surreal, everybody and their uncle knows both parties are corrupt but the level of stupidity here is unparalled in American politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 01, 2016, 09:09:31 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 01, 2016, 07:53:50 AM
Whitey, are you just a hired hand that Stew employs in an attempt to coherently voice his opinion? Every one of your posts is nothing more than conjecture.

"Speculation is that"

"It is also reported"

"There's a school of thought"

"Word on the street is"

Garbage, just completely fabricated garbage without any basis in fact whatsoever.

I almost yearn for the days of Sheehy and his outrageously offensive but logical and understandable positions.

But I have been a lot more right than I have been wrong

(It's kinda hard not to use conjecture when Hillarys people are deleting emails, forensically wiping servers, some committing  perjury and others pleading the fifth. I would deal solely in facts if they were forthcoming)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2016, 09:15:01 AM
The US political system is chaotic. If Clinton wins will she be able to govern? And who benefits from the chaos?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 01, 2016, 09:24:48 AM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:59:50 AM
If true Hillary, Bill and friends will finally be going to jail

https://youtu.be/os4S--dRB-U

f**k me!!! You'll have the Roswell recordings next only this time with Hillary and Bill operating on the Alien... Lunatic!!

Trump will probably have favourited this video and pinned it to the top of his twitter feed by lunchtime if he sees it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 01, 2016, 10:13:07 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2016, 09:24:48 AM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:59:50 AM
If true Hillary, Bill and friends will finally be going to jail

https://youtu.be/os4S--dRB-U

f**k me!!! You'll have the Roswell recordings next only this time with Hillary and Bill operating on the Alien... Lunatic!!

Trump will probably have favourited this video and pinned it to the top of his twitter feed by lunchtime if he sees it.

There is something there and remember children, Obama appointed the man that drafted the letter, glad he had it,in him to finally do his job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 01, 2016, 11:29:24 AM
Quote from: stew on November 01, 2016, 10:13:07 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2016, 09:24:48 AM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:59:50 AM
If true Hillary, Bill and friends will finally be going to jail

https://youtu.be/os4S--dRB-U

f**k me!!! You'll have the Roswell recordings next only this time with Hillary and Bill operating on the Alien... Lunatic!!

Trump will probably have favourited this video and pinned it to the top of his twitter feed by lunchtime if he sees it.

There is something there and remember children, Obama appointed the man that drafted the letter, glad he had it,in him to finally do his job.

I don't doubt that something may be unearthed in the emails but a pedophile sex ring??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 01, 2016, 11:30:17 AM
Has there ever been a more corrupt politician than Hillory Clinton?

Turns out she was spoon fed questions by CNN prior to their debate yet silencio on here about the media bias.

I am absolutely loving this shitstorm the stupid bitch has created, but hey, lets vote for her despite the fact she is a self living pathological liar who hates the middle class and who has lied under oath about multiple topics.

The Liberals on here and there are many would still vote Clinton, even if all that is claimed turns out to be true.

The democrat party is completely corrupt, they are bedfellows of the mainstream media such as CNN and msnbc etc and I hope to f**k the tanks have the wit to end the political career of this kn**ker!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 01, 2016, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: stew on November 01, 2016, 11:30:17 AM
Has there ever been a more corrupt politician than Hillory Clinton?

Turns out she was spoon fed questions by CNN prior to their debate yet silencio on here about the media bias.

I am absolutely loving this shitstorm the stupid bitch has created, but hey, lets vote for her despite the fact she is a self living pathological liar who hates the middle class and who has lied under oath about multiple topics.

The Liberals on here and there are many would still vote Clinton, even if all that is claimed turns out to be true.

The democrat party is completely corrupt, they are bedfellows of the mainstream media such as CNN and msnbc etc and I hope to f**k the tanks have the wit to end the political career of this kn**ker!

Whatever happened to 'innocent until proven guilty' you know the most sacred principle of the American justice system??

There is no new information here so why is this being seen as such a major scandal? The whole shebang is a case of smoke and mirrors hopefully she still wins. Even if she is corrupt she's still a better option than the Donald who'd have the US go to war with anybody who slags off his hair!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 12:37:08 PM
Quote from: stew on November 01, 2016, 11:30:17 AM
Has there ever been a more corrupt politician than Hillory Clinton?


Make your case.

There's plenty of examples for comparison.

Quote from: stew on November 01, 2016, 11:30:17 AM
Turns out she was spoon fed questions by CNN prior to their debate yet silencio on here about the media bias.

Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean there wasn't discussion here.

I distinctly remember talking about the Donna Brazile capital punishment question with whitey (I think) about a month ago. (You see, whitey actually discusses things).

The DNC chairwoman leaked the question, NOT CNN.

If there are other similar issues, go for it.

Quote from: stew on November 01, 2016, 11:30:17 AM
I am absolutely loving this shitstorm the stupid bitch has created, but hey, lets vote for her despite the fact she is a self living pathological liar who hates the middle class and who has lied under oath about multiple topics.

The Liberals on here and there are many would still vote Clinton, even if all that is claimed turns out to be true.

The democrat party is completely corrupt, they are bedfellows of the mainstream media such as CNN and msnbc etc and I hope to f**k the tanks have the wit to end the political career of this kn**ker!

What part of "lesser of two evils" do you not get?

And you're not just voting for a person. You're voting for (or against) a party and policies and outlook which affects a multitude of aspects of life.

If you think Trump is potentially a better president and a better option for the US, spare us the histrionics, put your money where your mouth is and make the case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 01:48:25 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2016, 11:29:24 AM
Quote from: stew on November 01, 2016, 10:13:07 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2016, 09:24:48 AM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:59:50 AM
If true Hillary, Bill and friends will finally be going to jail

https://youtu.be/os4S--dRB-U

f**k me!!! You'll have the Roswell recordings next only this time with Hillary and Bill operating on the Alien... Lunatic!!

Trump will probably have favourited this video and pinned it to the top of his twitter feed by lunchtime if he sees it.

There is something there and remember children, Obama appointed the man that drafted the letter, glad he had it,in him to finally do his job.

I don't doubt that something may be unearthed in the emails but a pedophile sex ring??!!

Obviously you have never heard of The Franklin Cover-up which went all the way to Poppy Bush's White House. He was/is too powerful to take the fall. Big problem, the Clintons also are, they have bought everybody of influence off through The Clinton Foundation. Before that through the drug money while Bill was governer of Arkansas. A while back one of the knowledgeable posters on here posted a link to "Clinton Cash", it's clear that none of the sheeple watched it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 02:07:51 PM
Bill Clinton made 27 trips on Jeffrey Epstein private jet to his island of Little St. James. Epstein was running a child sex ring at the time. Underage girls were also on the flights.

https://politicalvelcraft.org/2016/05/29/zionist-orgy-island-back-in-the-news-from-prime-minister-of-israel-ehud-barak-kevin-spacey-mossad-jeffery-epstein-bill-clinton-alan-dershowitz-the-dershowitz-sweetheart/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 01, 2016, 02:19:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2016, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: stew on November 01, 2016, 11:30:17 AM
Has there ever been a more corrupt politician than Hillory Clinton?

Turns out she was spoon fed questions by CNN prior to their debate yet silencio on here about the media bias.

I am absolutely loving this shitstorm the stupid bitch has created, but hey, lets vote for her despite the fact she is a self living pathological liar who hates the middle class and who has lied under oath about multiple topics.

The Liberals on here and there are many would still vote Clinton, even if all that is claimed turns out to be true.

The democrat party is completely corrupt, they are bedfellows of the mainstream media such as CNN and msnbc etc and I hope to f**k the tanks have the wit to end the political career of this kn**ker!

Whatever happened to 'innocent until proven guilty' you know the most sacred principle of the American justice system??

There is no new information here so why is this being seen as such a major scandal? The whole shebang is a case of smoke and mirrors hopefully she still wins. Even if she is corrupt she's still a better option than the Donald who'd have the US go to war with anybody who slags off his hair!!
Apart from the obvious humorous part of your post, why do you say that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 02:27:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 31, 2016, 09:24:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 31, 2016, 07:18:49 PM
How is the FBI investigation into the 22,000,000 emails deleted by the Bush administration going?

Yyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn

So far we know there is an investigation into her breaking rules (which her predecessors broke) regarding handling of Official Correspondence. While breaking those rules, she may have mishandled classified material. The latter may be an offence. However, intent would be a major consideration. For example, mishandling classified material and selling it to the Russians, would be one end of the scale, while a staffer accidentally putting it on a device not approved would be at the other. However perspective seems to have gone completely out the window here.

Added to all that is the rumour machine (hello Whitey!) suggesting that there is evidence of other criminality. Presumably bribes for something or other.

Let's imagine that this stuff exists. Are the FBI are even supposed to be looking for anything like that? What are the terms of the FBI's warrant? Viewed in this manner, it all starts to look like an orchestrated campaign of interference on Clinton, an FBI fishing exercise, opportunistically taking advantage of poor management of her personal IT. The lack of any real investigation into her predecessors for doing exactly the same thing is a massive deal here.

l
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 02:30:03 PM
Stew is spouting more daft Trump mantra, asking 'Has there ever been a more corrupt politician than Hillary Clinton?'

It is embarrassing that Trump is asking this spectacularly stupid question, but other people regurgitating it just shows that if you say something often enough, someone will believe you.

But anyway, here is some light reading:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0921295.html (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0921295.html)

World's Ten Most Corrupt Leaders
Name                         Position                                  Funds embezzled
1. Mohamed Suharto         President of Indonesia (1967–1998)   $15–35 billion
2. Ferdinand Marcos         President of the Philippines (1972–1986)   5–10 billion
3. Mobutu Sese Seko         President of Zaire (1965–1997)   5 billion
4. Sani Abacha   President of Nigeria (1993–1998)   2–5 billion
5. Slobodan Milosevic   President of Serbia/Yugoslavia (1989–2000)   1 billion
6. Jean-Claude Duvalier   President of Haiti (1971–1986)   300–800 million
7. Alberto Fujimori         President of Peru (1990–2000)   600 million
8. Pavlo Lazarenko         Prime Minister of Ukraine (1996–1997)   114–200 million
9. Arnoldo Alemán         President of Nicaragua (1997–2002)   100 million
10. Joseph Estrada         President of the Philippines (1998–2001)   78–80 million

Here is some US corruption:

(One from each party for balance)
http://www.biography.com/people/boss-tweed-20967991 (http://www.biography.com/people/boss-tweed-20967991)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801827.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801827.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 01, 2016, 03:07:43 PM
Are the 30000 deleted emails on Wieners laptop?

If they are, and they are deemed NOT to be personal then Hillary is all done.....because she would have perjured herself in front of Congress

(My opinion is that there is 90% chance at least some of the 30000 emails are on there and about a 70% chance they are not all personal related)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 01, 2016, 03:10:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 01, 2016, 03:07:43 PM
Are the 30000 deleted emails on Wieners laptop?

If they are, and they are deemed NOT to be personal then Hillary is all done.....because she would have perjured herself in front of Congress

(My opinion is that there is 90% chance at least some of the 30000 emails are on there and about a 70% chance they are not all personal related)
Alright Spock calm yourself down there ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 01, 2016, 03:16:15 PM
Lads, would Enda Kenny win this election if he could stand in the USA? Serious question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 01, 2016, 03:50:15 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 01, 2016, 03:16:15 PM
Lads, would Enda Kenny win this election if he could stand in the USA? Serious question.

Not a bad idea. He could plagiarise his own speeches then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 02:07:51 PM
Bill Clinton made 27 trips on Jeffrey Epstein private jet to his island of Little St. James. Epstein was running a child sex ring at the time. Underage girls were also on the flights.

https://politicalvelcraft.org/2016/05/29/zionist-orgy-island-back-in-the-news-from-prime-minister-of-israel-ehud-barak-kevin-spacey-mossad-jeffery-epstein-bill-clinton-alan-dershowitz-the-dershowitz-sweetheart/

Speaking of Epstein (given that wild allegations seems to be the order of the day!)...

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/witness-trump-also-raped-12-year-old-and-used-her-disappearance-to-threaten-another-victim/ (https://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/witness-trump-also-raped-12-year-old-and-used-her-disappearance-to-threaten-another-victim/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:13:47 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

Definitely not in the way you think
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:21:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 01, 2016, 02:30:03 PM
Stew is spouting more daft Trump mantra, asking 'Has there ever been a more corrupt politician than Hillary Clinton?'

It is embarrassing that Trump is asking this spectacularly stupid question, but other people regurgitating it just shows that if you say something often enough, someone will believe you.

But anyway, here is some light reading:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0921295.html (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0921295.html)

World's Ten Most Corrupt Leaders
Name                         Position                                  Funds embezzled
1. Mohamed Suharto         President of Indonesia (1967–1998)   $15–35 billion
2. Ferdinand Marcos         President of the Philippines (1972–1986)   5–10 billion
3. Mobutu Sese Seko         President of Zaire (1965–1997)   5 billion
4. Sani Abacha   President of Nigeria (1993–1998)   2–5 billion
5. Slobodan Milosevic   President of Serbia/Yugoslavia (1989–2000)   1 billion
6. Jean-Claude Duvalier   President of Haiti (1971–1986)   300–800 million
7. Alberto Fujimori         President of Peru (1990–2000)   600 million
8. Pavlo Lazarenko         Prime Minister of Ukraine (1996–1997)   114–200 million
9. Arnoldo Alemán         President of Nicaragua (1997–2002)   100 million
10. Joseph Estrada         President of the Philippines (1998–2001)   78–80 million

Here is some US corruption:

(One from each party for balance)
http://www.biography.com/people/boss-tweed-20967991 (http://www.biography.com/people/boss-tweed-20967991)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801827.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801827.html)

Most famous US example, at a national level, would be Spiro Agnew, Nixon's first VP.

Also, the administrations of Warren Harding and Ulysses Grant.

Tweed takes some beating though! The Tweed Courthouse, down by City Hall, ended costing about 50 times its original budget after all the kickbacks! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 04:30:07 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37830521 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37830521)

The Clinton campaign has blasted FBI Director James Comey for "blatant double standards" over the new inquiry into Hillary Clinton's email use.

The comments came after US media reports that Mr Comey had urged against publicly accusing Russia of interfering in the US election, including alleged email hacking.

Mr Comey's concern about releasing the information was due to the proximity to the election, reports say.
The FBI declined to comment to the BBC.

The statement that Mr Comey reportedly declined to sign off on was released by the Department of Homeland Security and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on 7 October.

"The US intelligence community is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of emails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organisations... these thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process," it said.

Mr Comey agreed with the statement but was against making it public before the election, according to US media.



If this is true then my earlier suggestion of Comey and the FBI running interference on the Clinton campaign, suddenly becomes a reality. And it certainly begins to look like an entirely political exercise.

The relative silence (in comparison to the emails) in the US on Trump and the Russians is astonishing, considering the history of the two countries.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-making-inquiry-ex-trump-campaign-manager-s-foreign-ties-n675881 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-making-inquiry-ex-trump-campaign-manager-s-foreign-ties-n675881)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 04:34:11 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

This explains everything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

As opposed to the tenuously-sourced bollocks you post about and from??

Anyway, I didn't say you said Hillary was moving to Qatar. I asked why she would move 1.8 billion to Qatar?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 01, 2016, 04:55:56 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

It is not at all disturbing. We have known for a long time that there is a significant number of people who will believe any conspiracy loon nonsense. We haven't learned anything new from Seamus spouting this rubbish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2016, 05:02:49 PM
This is brutal


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/11/10/american-right-inside-the-sacrifice-zone/

Inside the Sacrifice Zone
Nathaniel Rich
November 10, 2016 Issue
Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right 
by Arlie Russell Hochschild
New Press, 351 pp., $27.95
William Widmer/The New York Times/Redux
Donald Trump in front of the Samaritan's Purse mobile kitchen at an event for flood victims, Greenwell Springs Baptist Church, near Baton Rouge, Louisiana, August 2016
As the country's major political parties have become foreign countries to each other—with their own languages, press, moral philosophies, realities—a new kind of political literature has emerged, inspired by Thomas Frank's What's the Matter with Kansas? (2004). These books are written not by historians but by sociologists, anthropologists, and reporters; a partial list would include Joe Bageant's Deerhunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War (2007), Kate Zernike's Boiling Mad: Inside Tea Party America (2010), and Theda Skocpol and Vanessa Williamson's The Tea Party and the Remaking of Republican Conservatism (2012). These are studies of political groups, but they are not chiefly political in nature; they tend to be written in the manner of Coming of Age in Samoa or Notes on the Balinese Cockfight. Our present-day investigators file intimate reports from exotic locales like Flagstaff, Arizona, and Middletown, Ohio, where they embed among the natives.
Though both parties consider their opposite number to be the un-American interlopers, only observers on the left seem to be writing these books; we're still waiting for "What's the Matter with Manhattan?" or "Brattleboro Elegy." Often the author is a reformed member of the lost tribe: Frank and Bageant grew up in the places they later chronicled as outsiders, which allows them a degree of scorn their more clinical colleagues avoid. But all of the authors approach their subject with a puzzlement lined with despair. How, they ask, can so many people live in an upside-down reality, denouncing everything the writers consider virtuous, embracing everything they consider immoral? As Frank wrote on the first page of his book, "How could so many people get it so wrong?"
Arlie Russell Hochschild's Strangers in Their Own Land is the most satisfying example yet of this fish-out-of-water approach, with a premise out of Preston Sturges. A distinguished, sunny-dispositioned, white-haired sociologist from Berkeley travels to southwestern Louisiana to observe the Tea Party in the seat of its misery and hellfire rage. Before embarking on her five-year research mission, Hochschild tells us, she was not friends with a single conservative or southerner. "Who were they?" she wonders. "How did they come to hold their views? Could we make common cause on some issues?"
PUBLICITÉ
She is forced to reconcile everything she knows—"New York Times at the newsstand...organic produce in grocery stores...foreign films in movie houses...small cars...bicycle lanes, color-coded recycling bins...gluten-free entrees"—with everything they know: prayer, fried food, plus-sized clothing, and the economic and cultural dominance of the petrochemical industry. In preparation she rereads Ayn Rand, though she fails to encounter anyone who shows the slightest interest in literature; at a bookstore in Lake Charles she finds that three aisles are reserved for Bibles.
Hochschild hopes to overcome what she calls the "Empathy Wall" that separates political groups, preventing deep understanding of the other side. "Is it possible," she asks, "without changing our beliefs, to know others from the inside, to see reality through their eyes, to understand the links between life, feeling, and politics; that is, to cross the empathy wall? I thought it was." But while Hochschild tries to tear down her empathy wall, the Tea Partiers speak fervidly of trying to erect a great wall on the Mexican border—a national antipathy wall. When she introduces herself to one of her subjects, explaining that she is a sociologist from Berkeley who hopes "to understand the deepening divide in our country," he replies: "Berkeley? So y'all must be communist!" Hochschild tries to reassure her readers that he is only kidding.
Hochschild is deeply sympathetic to the plight of the Tea Partiers, just not enough for their satisfaction. A gospel singer named Madonna Massey, an avid Rush Limbaugh listener who believes that the Rapture will arrive within the next millennium and that the City of Heaven is a cube in the sky 1,500 miles square, complains to Hochschild that "liberals" malign her unfairly. "Oh, liberals think that Bible-believing Southerners are ignorant, backward, rednecks, losers. They think we're racist, sexist, homophobic, and maybe fat."
Hochschild's research appears to confirm this characterization to the letter; she even notes euphemistically that in Lake Charles there are "fewer petite sizes" in the clothing stores. But she is steadfast in her refusal to accept the common stereotypes. She makes a point of being on good terms with the people she studies. She refers to them as her "friends," dedicates the book to them, and praises them for being "caring," "bright," "warm, intelligent, generous—not like people out of the frightening pages of Ayn Rand."
Yet these warm and caring people say the darnedest things, particularly when it comes to immigrants: "The Syrians should stay, take a stand, and fight for what they believe in. If you flee, in my mind, you're a traitor unto yourself." Or: "Have you ever seen a Muslim charity event for people in need, or soup kitchen for the homeless? A Muslim Thanksgiving? Where is the Muslim name on the Declaration of Independence?" One person argues that handing out guns would be the best way to bring peace to the Middle East: "If everybody had a gun and ammunition, they could solve their own differences."
Hochschild shows such an excess of good faith that it comes to seem a form of naiveté. She cites, for instance, several academic and international studies finding that strict environmental regulation does not kill jobs, as Tea Partiers believe, but stimulates economic growth. "If this was the growing consensus among Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) economists," writes Hochschild, "I wondered why my Tea Party friends weren't hearing about it." How could Madonna Massey have missed the latest findings of the OECD?
Hochschild chooses southwest Louisiana for her "journey into the heart of the right" because it represents the most graphic version of what she calls the Great Paradox:
Across the country, red states are poorer and have more teen mothers, more divorce, worse health, more obesity, more trauma-related deaths, more low-birth-weight babies, and lower school enrollment. On average, people in red states die five years earlier than people in blue states. Indeed, the gap in life expectancy between Louisiana (75.7) and Connecticut (80.8) is the same as that between the United States and Nicaragua.
The more conservative you are, the worse off you are likely to be and the sooner you are likely to die. This holds even on the county level, Hochschild finds, after an analysis of EPA data shows a correlation between political views and exposure to pollution. Yet the very people most damaged by conservative policies are most likely to vote for them.
Nowhere is the abuse as frightening as in Louisiana—with the exception, perhaps, of its neighbor to the east ("Thank God for Mississippi!" is the unofficial state motto). Louisiana is the second-poorest state and second-to-last in human development, which is a measure of individual freedom. The state's rate of fatal cancers is about 30 percent higher than the national average. For all its antifederalism, Louisiana is fourth in accepting government welfare, with 44 percent of its budget coming from Washington. (Many of Hochschild's Tea Party friends are beneficiaries of federal welfare programs.) Louisiana has the highest rate of death by gunfire (nearly double the national average), the highest rate of incarceration, and is the fifth-least-educated, reflecting the fact that it spends the fifth-least on education. It is sixth in the nation in generating hazardous waste, and third in importing it, since it makes a side business out of storing other states' trash.
Louisiana's governor is among the most powerful chief executives in the nation, a legacy that dates back to Huey Long's administration, and under Governor Bobby Jindal's dictatorship, between 2008 and 2016, the state's prospects declined with unprecedented severity. After he reduced corporate income taxes and expanded the exemptions granted to oil and gas companies, the state's revenue tumbled roughly $3 billion. He transferred $1.6 billion from public schools and hospitals to oil companies in the form of new tax incentives, under the theory that the presence of oil and a robust petrochemical infrastructure were not incentives enough. (The Louisiana Legislature is not only soaked with oil and gas lobbyists—during a recent session there were seventy for 144 legislators—but many lawmakers themselves hold industry jobs while serving in office.) Jindal fired 30,000 state employees, furloughed many others, cut education funding by nearly half, and sold off as many state-owned parking lots, farms, and hospitals as he could.
Despite these punishing cuts, he managed over the course of his administration to turn a $900 million budget surplus into a $1.6 billion deficit. National agencies downgraded the state's credit rating. The damage was so great that it helped to bring about one of the most unlikely election results in recent American history. Jindal's successor is John Bel Edwards, a Democrat—the only one to hold statewide office. Edwards is vehemently pro-life and agnostic about climate change, but he is determined to hold the oil and gas industry responsible for funding their share of coastal restoration. He currently enjoys a 62.5 percent approval rating. Almost a year into his first term, however, despite several emergency measures, the state remains in arrears.
The paradox that most baffles Hochschild is the question of environmental pollution. Even the most ideologically driven zealots don't want to drink poisoned water, inhale toxic gas, or become susceptible to record flooding. Yet southwestern Louisiana combines some of the nation's most fervently antiregulatory voters with its most toxic environmental conditions. It is a center of climate change denial despite the fact that its coast faces the highest rate of sea-level rise on the planet.
Hochschild discovers a walking personification of these ironies in a Cajun oil rig engineer named Mike Schaff. In August 2012, Schaff was entering his home in Bayou Corne, about seventy miles west of New Orleans, when he was jolted by a tremor. His concrete living room floor cracked apart. The sound, said a neighbor, was like a "garbage truck had dropped a dumpster."
More than a mile beneath the bayou, a Houston-based drilling company named Texas Brine had drilled into a vast salt dome, ignoring warnings from its own engineer, with the complicity of the state's useless Department of Environmental Quality. (In Louisiana, environmental regulators are, in the words of an EPA investigation, "expected to protect industry.") Texas Brine drills for salt, which it sells to chlorine manufacturers, but other companies had used sections of the salt dome to store chemicals and oil. Texas Brine drilled too closely to an oil deposit and the structure ruptured, sucking down forest and causing seismic damage to the homes of 350 nearby residents. Officials began referring to Schaff's neighborhood as the "sacrifice zone."
Texas Brine refused to take responsibility for the accident. It claimed that earthquakes were common in the area (they are not) before blaming a different salt dome tenant for the collapse. If that wasn't enough, Texas Brine asked the state for permission to dump toxic wastewater into the very sinkhole it created. Jindal did not visit the site for seven months, though it is only forty miles south of the capital. Four years later the sinkhole is 750 feet deep at its center and has grown to thirty-five acres. Methane and other gases bubble up periodically. Residents who defied evacuation orders avoided lighting matches.
William Widmer/Redux
Stacey Ryan, one of the last residents of the heavily polluted town of Mossville, Louisiana, February 2016. Ryan—a descendant of Jacob Moss, the former slave who in 1790 founded one of the first settlements for free blacks in the South—did not want to move, but he was eventually forced to take a buyout from the South African petrochemical company Sasol, which had made his land unlivable as it expanded its facilities into the town.
After seeing his house, neighborhood, and way of life destroyed by corporate greed and state-sanctioned contempt for the natural environment, and many of his neighbors diagnosed with cancer, Schaff was forever changed. "They think we're just a bunch of ignorant coonasses," he told a Mother Jones reporter. Schaff became an environmental activist, railing against the "disrespect that we have been shown by both Texas Brine and our state officials themselves." He marched on the statehouse, wrote fifty letters to state and federal officials, granted dozens of interviews to local, national, and foreign press. When state officials claimed they had detected no oil in the bayou, he demanded that the EPA check their work.
But Schaff continued to vote Tea Party down the line. He voted for the very politicians who had abetted Texas Brine at every turn, who opposed environmental regulation of any kind. He voted to "abolish" the EPA, believing that it "was grabbing authority and tax money to take on a fictive mission...lessening the impact of global warming." The violent destruction of everything he held dear was not enough to change his mind.
Schaff's story is an extreme but representative example of what so many Louisianian voters have brought upon themselves. "The entire state of Louisiana," writes Hochschild, "had been placed into a sinkhole." When confronted with the contradictions in their political logic, Hochschild's subjects fall into "long pauses." Cognitive dissonance reduces them to childlike inanity. When asked about catastrophic oil spills that result from lax regulation, one woman says, "It's not in the company's own interest to have a spill or an accident.... So if there's a spill, it's probably the best the company could do." Madonna Massey says: "Sure, I want clean air and water, but I trust our system to assure it." Jackie Tabor, whom Hochschild describes as "an obedient Christian wife," says: "You have to put up with things the way they are.... Pollution is the sacrifice we make for capitalism," which is a gentler way of saying that premature death is the sacrifice we make for capitalism. Janice Areno, who worked at Olin Chemical without a facial mask as an inspector of phosgene gas and suffers mysterious health ailments that she believes are "probably related to growing up near the plants," finds comfort in an anthropomorphic analogy: "Just like people have to go to the bathroom, plants do too."
But Hochschild is not interested in merely documenting the familiar ways in which this stratum of white Americans has consistently voted against its own interests, economic and otherwise. She wants to understand the cause. She finds all of the familiar explanations lacking. She rejects the argument that billionaires and oil companies, through sophisticated and elaborate public relations campaigns, have bamboozled an entire population into voting against government regulation by exploiting religious and cultural anxieties. Thomas Frank, quoted by Hochschild, described this strategy as follows:
Vote to stop abortion; receive a rollback in capital gains taxes.... Vote to get government off our backs; receive conglomeration and monopoly everywhere from media to meat packing. Vote to strike a blow against elitism, receive a social order in which wealth is more concentrated than ever before in our lifetimes.
Hochschild finds this "too simple an idea." Her skepticism does seem justified in light of the Republican Party's recent capitulation to a businessman opposed by the Koch brothers and nearly every other major right-wing éminence grise, and unendorsed by a single CEO of a Fortune 100 company.
Hochschild is also unpersuaded by Colin Woodard's argument for regionalism as the main factor in shaping political views, and Alec McGillis's argument that those in red states who most need government services vote at a much lower rate than wealthier conservatives. She finds incomplete Jonathan Haidt's view, in The Righteous Mind (2013), that Tea Party voters are not misled, but instead care more deeply about cultural values than economic principles. While each of these theories may have some merit, she writes,
I found one thing missing in them all—a full understanding of emotion in politics. What, I wanted to know, did people want to feel, think they should or shouldn't feel, and what do they feel about a range of issues?
This is politics as advertising: emotion over common sense. Such an analysis is overdue at a time when questions of policy and legislation and even fact have all but vanished from the public discourse, replaced by debates about the candidate's character, "temperament," and brand. (A Columbia Journalism Review analysis of the first presidential debate found that it "focused more on personality than any other in US history.") How, then, do Tea Party voters feel? They're angry, bitter, resentful—that much is obvious. Hochschild goes further, however. She develops for them what in brand marketing is referred to as the "back story," a story that provides a unifying emotional logic to a set of beliefs. She calls it the "deep story."
The deep story that Hochschild creates for the Tea Party is a parable of the white American Dream. It begins with an image of a long line of people marching across a vast landscape. The Tea Partiers—white, older, Christian, predominantly male, many lacking college degrees—are somewhere in the middle of the line. They trudge wearily, but with resolve, up a hill. Ahead, beyond the ridge, lies wealth, success, dignity. Far behind them the line is composed of people of color, women, immigrants, refugees. As pensions are reduced and layoffs absorbed, the line slows, then stalls.
An even greater indignity follows: people begin cutting them in line. Many are those who had long stood behind them—blacks, women, immigrants, even Syrian refugees, all now aided by the federal government. Next an even more astonishing figure jumps ahead of them: a brown pelican, the Louisiana state bird, "fluttering its long, oil-drenched wings." Thanks to environmental protections, it is granted higher social status than, say, an oil rig worker. The pelican, writes Hochschild,
needs clean fish to eat, clean water to dive in, oil-free marshes, and protection from coastal erosion. That's why it's in line ahead of you. But really, it's just an animal and you're a human being.
Meanwhile the Tea Partiers are made to feel less than human. They find themselves reviled for their Christian morality and the "traditional" values they have been taught to honor from birth. Many speak of "sympathy fatigue," the sense that every demographic group but theirs receives sympathy from liberals. "People think we're not good people if we don't feel sorry for blacks and immigrants and Syrian refugees," one Tea Partier tells Hochschild. "But I am a good person and I don't feel sorry for them."
When Hochschild tells her deep story to some of the people she's come to know, they greet it rapturously. "You've read my mind," says one. "I live your analogy," says Mike Schaff. She concludes that they do not vote in their economic interest but in their "emotional self-interest." What other choice do they have?
Hochschild suggests that economic despair is the central motivation behind the Tea Partiers' rage, while admitting that race, gender, and class biases contribute. But it's difficult not to consider racial fear the formative aspect of this story, given our national history and the repeated expressions of racial disdain by her subjects, all of whom are white. Further evidence can be found in Donald Trump's ability to cast off fundamental Republican economic views without sacrificing Tea Party support, while emphasizing positions dear to the hearts of white supremacists. Either way, race and the economy have for the far right become inseparable. Who's to blame for lost jobs and opportunities? African-Americans boosted by affirmative action, immigrant laborers, Mexicans, Indians, Chinese.
Whether by calculation or intuition, Trump has emphasized the core elements of Hochschild's deep story more tenaciously than any previous Republican presidential nominee. In doing so he has overcome a bitter contradiction at the heart of the Tea Party. Though they hold the notion of victimhood in the deepest contempt, Hochschild writes, they have been forced to brave "the worst of an industrial system, the fruits of which liberals enjoyed from a distance in their highly regulated and cleaner blue states." The Tea Partiers live in a single giant "sacrifice zone."
They may not have it worse than some other demographic groups in America today, but they have fallen the furthest. Hochschild quotes the economist Phillip Longman's finding that fifty-somethings today are the first generation of Americans who, "at every stage of adult life,...have less income and less net wealth than people their age ten years before." Trump's pitch is simple: under his leadership, the Tea Party losers will be winners. They will win so much that they'll be sick.
While Hochschild's Tea Partiers contemplate a triumphant, if hazy, future, she leaves her readers with Grand Guignol images of their present day. We visit the tranquil bayou home belonging to Harold and Annette Areno, who, in the last two decades, have found themselves hemmed in by a chloride hydrocarbon manufacturing facility, a coal-fired power plant, a hazardous waste landfill, and the Conoco Docks, the site of one of the largest chemical leaks in North American history. The family's cows, goats, and chickens fall over dead after drinking from the bayou, and the turtles go blind, their eyes turning white.
We watch Bob Hardey, mayor of Westlake, as he dutifully tends a family cemetery that is about to be surrounded on all sides by a humungous Sasol gas-to-liquids plant to which he has sold much of his property. Louisiana has given the facility permission to emit benzene at eighty-five times the entire state's "threshold rate." And we meet a safety inspector at a Ford battery plant who is called a sissy by plant employees for wearing a respirator. When the workers cackle he sees that their teeth have been eroded by sulfuric acid mist.

We come to know Hochschild's subjects intimately: their thoughts, their prejudices, and most of all their fears, which form the foundation of their worldview. But we never get the sense that they know themselves. On the rare occasions in which Hochschild directly challenges their views, they tend to respond with platitudes taken from Fox News or by changing the subject. While acknowledging the strands of "greed, selfishness, racial intolerance, homophobia" in her subjects' nature, Hochschild emphasizes their virtues, many of them shaped by biblical teachings: "their capacity for loyalty, sacrifice, and endurance."
Of these, endurance is the defining quality, and the most tragic. Their suffering is not merely a personal or demographic crisis but a national tragedy. It threatens to capsize the entire republic. The Tea Partiers can't be blamed for making a virtue of their anguish. Their situation, after all, is unlikely to improve anytime soon. Their suffering seems fated to last until Judgment Day—which should not be confused with Election Day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:19:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 01, 2016, 04:34:11 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

This explains everything.

Sure it makes Hillary innocent of all her crimes and of course you never misread anything in your life.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 05:27:55 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:19:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 01, 2016, 04:34:11 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

This explains everything.

Sure it makes Hillary innocent of all her crimes and of course you never misread anything in your life.

Where has Snopes been 'proven to be a disinformation site'?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

As opposed to the tenuously-sourced bollocks you post about and from??

Anyway, I didn't say you said Hillary was moving to Qatar. I asked why she would move 1.8 billion to Qatar?

Coming from a man who does not realize The United States is a corporation. Ever wonder why your Driver License is in all CAPITALS along with all government correspondence including that of the IRS along with that of the banking system?  No I guess not, it's all over your head. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 05:35:41 PM
I think I found where Seamus lives: http://humansarefree.com/2015/07/heres-why-your-legal-name-is-written-in.html (http://humansarefree.com/2015/07/heres-why-your-legal-name-is-written-in.html)

...The process that allows the government to legally claim you as a corporation involves the creation of a fictitious you, which is the name written in all CAPITAL LETTERS, and then tricking you to agree to be that artificial person or legal name.

This legal name was created shortly after you were born and was recorded on a bond. This bond that represents the date of your birth is known as your birth certificate.

The birth certificate is actually a certificate of slavery which is why it is recorded on a bond....

Why your legal name is written in all capital letters

Your legal name, which is used to represent you (the body of water or liquid), is written in all CAPITAL LETTERS because it is a piece of liquidated capital. In other words, it has been securitized and turned into a financial instrument. Hence, the phrase "liquidated capital."

To liquidate something is to sell it off entirely, or sell it to pay off a debt. It is called liquidated capital because you, the person who has been securitized, were born in the womb of your mother, which was mostly made of water (liquid). You are also mostly made of water. Because you are mostly made of liquid and have been securitized, you are considered liquidated capital.

...Did you know you were born with a bounty on your head?

When you really think about the information you just read, you should know that the process of turning you into "capital money" or liquidated capital is their way of saying that you have a "bounty on your head."

Your birth certificate is the bond with your name written in all CAPITAL LETTERS on it, and therefore it is the financial document that has the value of the bounty on your head. This is why your birth certificate is traded on the stock market.

In the Western world and many Eastern countries, each of us was born into the world with a bounty on our heads. This is due to the fact that our federal government considers us as enemies of the state....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:57:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 01, 2016, 05:27:55 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:19:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 01, 2016, 04:34:11 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

This explains everything.

Sure it makes Hillary innocent of all her crimes and of course you never misread anything in your life.

Where has Snopes been 'proven to be a disinformation site'?

Snopes is a family run home based business (husband and wife). When it comes to politics they are completely biased with a massive liberal slant. Without properly checking whether negative articles toward their political beliefs are true or not they rush out to post disinformation in order to kill the story. Outside of politics they are reliable enough making some people believe everything they say. It's easily spotted when a person is not a supporter of the two main parties.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 06:01:25 PM
Any chance you might post up some proof, even an example of what you are claiming?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
http://www.salon.com/2016/10/18/donald-trump-and-the-embrace-of-the-kkk-the-klan-gives-a-de-facto-endorsement-to-the-trump-campaign-on-the-front-page-of-its-newspaper/ (http://www.salon.com/2016/10/18/donald-trump-and-the-embrace-of-the-kkk-the-klan-gives-a-de-facto-endorsement-to-the-trump-campaign-on-the-front-page-of-its-newspaper/)

KKK Newspaper endorses Trump

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwMAFgNWEAE7spQ.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 06:25:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 01, 2016, 06:01:25 PM
Any chance you might post up some proof, even an example of what you are claiming?

J70 just did
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 06:25:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 01, 2016, 06:01:25 PM
Any chance you might post up some proof, even an example of what you are claiming?

J70 just did

I think you misread that post.

Anyway......

Was this the answer to your question about capital letters:

Why your legal name is written in all capital letters

Your legal name, which is used to represent you (the body of water or liquid), is written in all CAPITAL LETTERS because it is a piece of liquidated capital. In other words, it has been securitized and turned into a financial instrument. Hence, the phrase "liquidated capital."

To liquidate something is to sell it off entirely, or sell it to pay off a debt. It is called liquidated capital because you, the person who has been securitized, were born in the womb of your mother, which was mostly made of water (liquid). You are also mostly made of water. Because you are mostly made of liquid and have been securitized, you are considered liquidated capital.

The purpose of liquidating you is to turn you into "capital money." When you break the word capital down into three words, you get "cap-it-all." The word capital comes from the Latin word capitalis, which means "of the head," hence "capital, chief, first." It also comes from another Latin word caput, which translates to English as "head."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

As opposed to the tenuously-sourced bollocks you post about and from??

Anyway, I didn't say you said Hillary was moving to Qatar. I asked why she would move 1.8 billion to Qatar?

Coming from a man who does not realize The United States is a corporation. Ever wonder why your Driver License is in all CAPITALS along with all government correspondence including that of the IRS along with that of the banking system?  No I guess not, it's all over your head.

Sure go on Seamus, enlighten us all.

Why is my driver license name in capital letters?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:15:13 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement)

The "redemption movement"

The Redemption movement is based on a theory developed in the 1980s by Roger Elvick, who has been called a "founding father" of the modern redemption movement.[7] The theory is, in part, that for every citizen's birth certificate issued in the U.S. since the 1936 Social Security Act, the government deposits $630,000 in a hidden bank account linked to the newborn American and administered by a Jewish cabal.

You just knew the Jewish elite had to be in there somewhere! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:20:44 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 06:25:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 01, 2016, 06:01:25 PM
Any chance you might post up some proof, even an example of what you are claiming?

J70 just did

What part of what Snopes said isn't true?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 01, 2016, 07:24:42 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

As opposed to the tenuously-sourced bollocks you post about and from??

Anyway, I didn't say you said Hillary was moving to Qatar. I asked why she would move 1.8 billion to Qatar?

Coming from a man who does not realize The United States is a corporation. Ever wonder why your Driver License is in all CAPITALS along with all government correspondence including that of the IRS along with that of the banking system?  No I guess not, it's all over your head. 

I noticed that your username has one CAPITAL letter. Does this mean you are one sixth corporation and five sixths human?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:05:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:15:13 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement)

The "redemption movement"

The Redemption movement is based on a theory developed in the 1980s by Roger Elvick, who has been called a "founding father" of the modern redemption movement.[7] The theory is, in part, that for every citizen's birth certificate issued in the U.S. since the 1936 Social Security Act, the government deposits $630,000 in a hidden bank account linked to the newborn American and administered by a Jewish cabal.

You just knew the Jewish elite had to be in there somewhere! ;D

My word a quote from Wikipedia. That is a load of rubbish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 08:06:49 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:05:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:15:13 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement)

The "redemption movement"

The Redemption movement is based on a theory developed in the 1980s by Roger Elvick, who has been called a "founding father" of the modern redemption movement.[7] The theory is, in part, that for every citizen's birth certificate issued in the U.S. since the 1936 Social Security Act, the government deposits $630,000 in a hidden bank account linked to the newborn American and administered by a Jewish cabal.

You just knew the Jewish elite had to be in there somewhere! ;D

My word a quote from Wikipedia. That is a load of rubbish.

Which part of the Wiki article is wrong?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

As opposed to the tenuously-sourced bollocks you post about and from??

Anyway, I didn't say you said Hillary was moving to Qatar. I asked why she would move 1.8 billion to Qatar?

Coming from a man who does not realize The United States is a corporation. Ever wonder why your Driver License is in all CAPITALS along with all government correspondence including that of the IRS along with that of the banking system?  No I guess not, it's all over your head.

Sure go on Seamus, enlighten us all.

Why is my driver license name in capital letters?

Next time you go to the DMV ask them to change the name on the DL to your proper name, see what they'll tell you, ie John Smith as opposed to JOHN SMITH
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

As opposed to the tenuously-sourced bollocks you post about and from??

Anyway, I didn't say you said Hillary was moving to Qatar. I asked why she would move 1.8 billion to Qatar?

Coming from a man who does not realize The United States is a corporation. Ever wonder why your Driver License is in all CAPITALS along with all government correspondence including that of the IRS along with that of the banking system?  No I guess not, it's all over your head.

Sure go on Seamus, enlighten us all.

Why is my driver license name in capital letters?

Next time you go to the DMV ask them to change the name on the DL to your proper name, see what they'll tell you

So what name is on my driving license if not my "proper name"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 08:22:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:05:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:15:13 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement)

The "redemption movement"

The Redemption movement is based on a theory developed in the 1980s by Roger Elvick, who has been called a "founding father" of the modern redemption movement.[7] The theory is, in part, that for every citizen's birth certificate issued in the U.S. since the 1936 Social Security Act, the government deposits $630,000 in a hidden bank account linked to the newborn American and administered by a Jewish cabal.

You just knew the Jewish elite had to be in there somewhere! ;D

My word a quote from Wikipedia. That is a load of rubbish.

What's a load of rubbish?

The "redemption movement" idea?

The 630K in a secret account?

The Jewish cabal?

Something else in the wiki piece?

Are you a subscriber to the redemption movement thing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2016, 08:28:11 PM
FBI releases file on 2001 Investigation into Bill Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich: https://vault.fbi.gov/william-j.-clinton-foundation/william-j.-clinton-foundation.pdf/view (https://vault.fbi.gov/william-j.-clinton-foundation/william-j.-clinton-foundation.pdf/view)

It is almost all redacted though, so why bother releasing it at all?

Nonetheless, this is incredible stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2016, 08:31:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 01, 2016, 08:28:11 PM
FBI releases file on 2001 Investigation into Bill Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich: https://vault.fbi.gov/william-j.-clinton-foundation/william-j.-clinton-foundation.pdf/view (https://vault.fbi.gov/william-j.-clinton-foundation/william-j.-clinton-foundation.pdf/view)

It is almost all redacted though, so why bother releasing it at all?

Nonetheless, this is incredible stuff.
Rich founded some trading company that became GlencoRe one of the world's biggest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:53:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

As opposed to the tenuously-sourced bollocks you post about and from??

Anyway, I didn't say you said Hillary was moving to Qatar. I asked why she would move 1.8 billion to Qatar?

Coming from a man who does not realize The United States is a corporation. Ever wonder why your Driver License is in all CAPITALS along with all government correspondence including that of the IRS along with that of the banking system?  No I guess not, it's all over your head.

Sure go on Seamus, enlighten us all.

Why is my driver license name in capital letters?

Next time you go to the DMV ask them to change the name on the DL to your proper name, see what they'll tell you

So what name is on my driving license if not my "proper name"?

Ask DMV, seek out a supervisor if need be. You will need to find the answers for yourself.

You probably never heard of the Universal Commercial Code either. It's a disgrace but we have to use it to our advantage, through a proper filing you will never again have to pay a traffic or moving violation ticket to the corporation and that's only one small advantage of taking control of that all capital name. Of course you will be issued a ticket by the brainwashed traffic warden or cop. All that needs to be done is to send in a letter of assignment along with the ticket.  I'm living proof of this. It is people like you that got us all into the situation we are in. If you do not know your rights you do not have any, the perfect slave is the one who thinks he is free. We are forced to take back our freedoms individually because of how cowardly people have become. I legally got rid of the IRS as well. You do not deserve the information I'm giving you here but maybe you will wake up and realize that you are not always right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2016, 09:15:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:53:39 PM

Ask DMV, seek out a supervisor if need be. You will need to find the answers for yourself.


Just answer the question FFS! ;D

Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:53:39 PM
You probably never heard of the Universal Commercial Code either. It's a disgrace but we have to use it to our advantage, through a proper filing you will never again have to pay a traffic or moving violation ticket to the corporation and that's only one small advantage of taking control of that all capital name. Of course you will be issued a ticket by the brainwashed traffic warden or cop. All that needs to be done is to send in a letter of assignment along with the ticket.  I'm living proof of this. It is people like you that got us all into the situation we are in. If you do not know your rights you do not have any, the perfect slave is the one who thinks he is free. We are forced to take back our freedoms individually because of how cowardly people have become. I legally got rid of the IRS as well. You do not deserve the information I'm giving you here but maybe you will wake up and realize that you are not always right.

Watch out for the black helicopters! ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 01, 2016, 11:15:18 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:53:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

As opposed to the tenuously-sourced bollocks you post about and from??

Anyway, I didn't say you said Hillary was moving to Qatar. I asked why she would move 1.8 billion to Qatar?

Coming from a man who does not realize The United States is a corporation. Ever wonder why your Driver License is in all CAPITALS along with all government correspondence including that of the IRS along with that of the banking system?  No I guess not, it's all over your head.

Sure go on Seamus, enlighten us all.

Why is my driver license name in capital letters?

Next time you go to the DMV ask them to change the name on the DL to your proper name, see what they'll tell you

So what name is on my driving license if not my "proper name"?

Ask DMV, seek out a supervisor if need be. You will need to find the answers for yourself.

You probably never heard of the Universal Commercial Code either. It's a disgrace but we have to use it to our advantage, through a proper filing you will never again have to pay a traffic or moving violation ticket to the corporation and that's only one small advantage of taking control of that all capital name. Of course you will be issued a ticket by the brainwashed traffic warden or cop. All that needs to be done is to send in a letter of assignment along with the ticket.  I'm living proof of this. It is people like you that got us all into the situation we are in. If you do not know your rights you do not have any, the perfect slave is the one who thinks he is free. We are forced to take back our freedoms individually because of how cowardly people have become. I legally got rid of the IRS as well. You do not deserve the information I'm giving you here but maybe you will wake up and realize that you are not always right.

Good that you figured out how to get rid of the IRS when poor aul WESLEY SNIPES made a balls of it.

"Snipes is being cast as a villainous example of the dangers of joining with Internet-fueled activists who claim the IRS has no authority to collect taxes"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2013/04/05/wesley-snipes-finishes-jail-time-for-tax-evasion/2057455/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 02, 2016, 01:33:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:53:39 PM
You probably never heard of the Universal Commercial Code either.

You can't even get your own conspiracy bullshit correct.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 02, 2016, 01:38:27 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 01, 2016, 11:15:18 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:53:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2016, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on November 01, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Why did Hillary wire 1.8 Billion from The Clinton Foundation to Qatar on Oct 20th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6usGR41cI)

Frankly, this is very, very disturbing. No - not in the way that you think.

;D

"Reports that the Clinton Foundation suddenly moved $1.8 billion to Qatar originated with a fake news and conspiracy web site."

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/ (http://www.snopes.com/clinton-moves-billions-to-qatar/)

1. Where would Hillary find 1.8 billion?
2. Why would she move it to Qatar?


Who said Hillary is moving to Qatar?
It's easy to find where the funds came from, check out Clinton Cash for just one way of doing so.

Keep away from Snopes, they are frying your brain, proven to be a disinformation site.

As opposed to the tenuously-sourced bollocks you post about and from??

Anyway, I didn't say you said Hillary was moving to Qatar. I asked why she would move 1.8 billion to Qatar?

Coming from a man who does not realize The United States is a corporation. Ever wonder why your Driver License is in all CAPITALS along with all government correspondence including that of the IRS along with that of the banking system?  No I guess not, it's all over your head.

Sure go on Seamus, enlighten us all.

Why is my driver license name in capital letters?

Next time you go to the DMV ask them to change the name on the DL to your proper name, see what they'll tell you

So what name is on my driving license if not my "proper name"?

Ask DMV, seek out a supervisor if need be. You will need to find the answers for yourself.

You probably never heard of the Universal Commercial Code either. It's a disgrace but we have to use it to our advantage, through a proper filing you will never again have to pay a traffic or moving violation ticket to the corporation and that's only one small advantage of taking control of that all capital name. Of course you will be issued a ticket by the brainwashed traffic warden or cop. All that needs to be done is to send in a letter of assignment along with the ticket.  I'm living proof of this. It is people like you that got us all into the situation we are in. If you do not know your rights you do not have any, the perfect slave is the one who thinks he is free. We are forced to take back our freedoms individually because of how cowardly people have become. I legally got rid of the IRS as well. You do not deserve the information I'm giving you here but maybe you will wake up and realize that you are not always right.

Good that you figured out how to get rid of the IRS when poor aul WESLEY SNIPES made a balls of it.

"Snipes is being cast as a villainous example of the dangers of joining with Internet-fueled activists who claim the IRS has no authority to collect taxes"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2013/04/05/wesley-snipes-finishes-jail-time-for-tax-evasion/2057455/

Thanks even though you would love to see me fail. I have not joined any Internet fueled activists. Snipes went into contract with them I have not. They have no way of taking me to court. The illegal IRS uses fear to achieve their objectives. The majority that receives a letter for payment from the IRS shites themselves and pays up straight away even though they may not own them the money. They collect billions this way. How they have gotten business owners to become tax collectors for them is mind boggling, fear is a terrible thing.  I have the courage and knowledge to beat them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 02:05:12 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwOEh4jVUAAij04.jpg)

Wow!

I think Trump was right when he said the election was rigged. But it was a Freudian slip.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 02, 2016, 08:40:49 AM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AMin my lifetime the single worst President of all time

:o :o :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 02, 2016, 10:48:50 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Hard to tell... polls say she's holding a steady 4 having been up 6 points after the debates. Having said that every poll in the UK had UK staying in Europe so where previously there wouldn't have been much panic I think nobody is taking anything for granted until it's called next Tuesday!

Except Trump... he knows he's won whether it's called in his favour or not!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.

Have you figured out who is going to play for the wall yet?

And the tax cuts for the rich?

And who paid for Iraq and Afghanistan? And the War on Terror?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 02, 2016, 11:03:31 AM
Betfair:
Clinton 1.4
Trump 3.6
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2016, 11:35:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLH36Tr-8pE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 02, 2016, 12:01:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 02, 2016, 08:40:49 AM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AMin my lifetime the single worst President of all time

:o :o :o

Well troll lets see, he wins the election and 8 years later he has added ten trillion almost to the national debt, more than every President before him combined, who is going to pay for that.

He bailed out the big banks and what happened, they gave themselves big fat bonuses after losing billions of dollars.

He tells the enemy he is sending in special forces to key areas overseas, always a smart move!

He called Isis the JV squad, very soon after that they wreck Paris.

He failed to deal with Assad and never did set up no fly zones in Syria, the direct consequence of that non decision is the death of innocents trapped I Syria and the clusterfuck that has been the migrant situation all over the planet.

Putin has disrespected him and the military so may times, buzzing warships etc, h does nothing, the Russians try that in Turkish Air space and get blown out of the sky.

He swaps dangerous terrorists for a traitor and pays $400 million for four Americans held in the middle east.

Meanwhile at home black people are worse off than before he took office, more of them are living below the poverty line and more people are homeless since the great depression following the crash of 29.

More Americans are incarcerated under Obama than ever before.

The middle class are worth much less now than they were 8 years ago, Obamacare cost are rising an astonishing 39% per annum and middle class Americans are having to be $14,000 out of pocket before insurance kicks in, the unemployed are happy enough, they pay next to nothing, he is killing the middle class.

There is more, a lot more, he is God awful, America is under attack by Radical Islamic Terrorists and he downplays it like it is ok.

He got Bin Laden, great, he has fucked up time and time again and it is time for him to go, the sad thing is he would be better tan what is coming either way, that is how fucked America really is!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:11:03 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 12:01:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 02, 2016, 08:40:49 AM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AMin my lifetime the single worst President of all time

:o :o :o

Well troll lets see, he wins the election and 8 years later he has added ten trillion almost to the national debt, more than every President before him combined, who is going to pay for that.

He bailed out the big banks and what happened, they gave themselves big fat bonuses after losing billions of dollars.

He tells the enemy he is sending in special forces to key areas overseas, always a smart move!

He called Isis the JV squad, very soon after that they wreck Paris.

He failed to deal with Assad and never did set up no fly zones in Syria, the direct consequence of that non decision is the death of innocents trapped I Syria and the clusterfuck that has been the migrant situation all over the planet.

Putin has disrespected him and the military so may times, buzzing warships etc, h does nothing, the Russians try that in Turkish Air space and get blown out of the sky.

He swaps dangerous terrorists for a traitor and pays $400 million for four Americans held in the middle east.

Meanwhile at home black people are worse off than before he took office, more of them are living below the poverty line and more people are homeless since the great depression following the crash of 29.

More Americans are incarcerated under Obama than ever before.

The middle class are worth much less now than they were 8 years ago, Obamacare cost are rising an astonishing 39% per annum and middle class Americans are having to be $14,000 out of pocket before insurance kicks in, the unemployed are happy enough, they pay next to nothing, he is killing the middle class.

There is more, a lot more, he is God awful, America is under attack by Radical Islamic Terrorists and he downplays it like it is ok.

He got Bin Laden, great, he has fucked up time and time again and it is time for him to go, the sad thing is he would be better tan what is coming either way, that is how fucked America really is!

The only thing you can solely blame Obama for on that list is the cost of Obamacare.

The rest is partisan nonsense.

Blaming Obama for bailing out the banks.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 02, 2016, 12:17:53 PM
This election is certainly giving some great copy:
https://www.texastribune.org/2016/11/01/miller-calls-clinton-obscene-term-twitter/ (https://www.texastribune.org/2016/11/01/miller-calls-clinton-obscene-term-twitter/)

Though my favourite theory on Trump is this one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LFkN7QGp2c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LFkN7QGp2c)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 02, 2016, 12:27:41 PM
this is how I picture Seamus spending his time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pBougV1JK4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'

So far on this thread we have had suggestions of:

Pedophile ring details?
Corruption payment bank account numbers?
Graphic details of her lesbian encounters?

What do you think will be in these emails Whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 12:38:04 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 02, 2016, 12:17:53 PM
This election is certainly giving some great copy:
https://www.texastribune.org/2016/11/01/miller-calls-clinton-obscene-term-twitter/ (https://www.texastribune.org/2016/11/01/miller-calls-clinton-obscene-term-twitter/)

Though my favourite theory on Trump is this one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LFkN7QGp2c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LFkN7QGp2c)

Donald can't read, unbelievable........
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:55:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'

So far on this thread we have had suggestions of:

Pedophile ring details?
Corruption payment bank account numbers?
Graphic details of her lesbian encounters?

What do you think will be in these emails Whitey?

I honestly don't know, but to risk permanently deleting 30000 emails that were under subpoena, I'd say it's something pretty bad.

The day after The NY Times broke the story about the private server.....Wikileaks havand John Podesta saying "We are going to have to dump all those emails"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-01/podesta-mills-we-are-going-have-dump-all-those-emails

I'm far from an expert on this stuff, but 15 years ago I was a lower level employee at a company going on trough an SEC investigation. If I recall correctly armed FBI agents show up at some of  He executives houses to seize laptops....it's mind boggling that someone would delete emails that are under subponea
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ludermor on November 02, 2016, 12:59:46 PM
Its all becoming a little clearer.

Seamus ............ James............ Jim........... Corr????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 02, 2016, 01:11:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:55:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'

So far on this thread we have had suggestions of:

Pedophile ring details?
Corruption payment bank account numbers?
Graphic details of her lesbian encounters?

What do you think will be in these emails Whitey?

I honestly don't know, but to risk permanently deleting 30000 emails that were under subpoena, I'd say it's something pretty bad.

The day after The NY Times broke the story about the private server.....Wikileaks havand John Podesta saying "We are going to have to dump all those emails"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-01/podesta-mills-we-are-going-have-dump-all-those-emails

I'm far from an expert on this stuff, but 15 years ago I was a lower level employee at a company going on trough an SEC investigation. If I recall correctly armed FBI agents show up at some of  He executives houses to seize laptops....it's mind boggling that someone would delete emails that are under subponea

It's not though, it is sheer arrogance and absolute faith that Hillary is untouchable.

You do not delete emails whilst under subpoena unless you are an arrogant bitch that thinks her shit don't stink and her minnions bought into her being bullet proof.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:55:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'

So far on this thread we have had suggestions of:

Pedophile ring details?
Corruption payment bank account numbers?
Graphic details of her lesbian encounters?

What do you think will be in these emails Whitey?

I honestly don't know, but to risk permanently deleting 30000 emails that were under subpoena, I'd say it's something pretty bad.

The day after The NY Times broke the story about the private server.....Wikileaks havand John Podesta saying "We are going to have to dump all those emails"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-01/podesta-mills-we-are-going-have-dump-all-those-emails

I'm far from an expert on this stuff, but 15 years ago I was a lower level employee at a company going on trough an SEC investigation. If I recall correctly armed FBI agents show up at some of  He executives houses to seize laptops....it's mind boggling that someone would delete emails that are under subponea

Not everything is black and white.

The answer is usually somewhere in the grey.

Firstly you are talking about two different type of subpoena. Here is a Congressional subpoena being ignored: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/22/republicans-hold-hillary-s-it-guy-in-contempt-of-congress-for-refusing-to-testify.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/22/republicans-hold-hillary-s-it-guy-in-contempt-of-congress-for-refusing-to-testify.html)

Hillary emails 'scandal' is simply a dirty tricks campaign. It is an attempt, one that is almost succeeding, in influencing a Presidential election. It will go away, either way, after the election because there isn't even a specific allegation being made. They have been through 30,000 emails already and have had weeks with another 650,000, and still nothing. No doubt there will be another 'shocking' revelation before the day of the election, but I bet when you let the smoke of the 'outrage' and 'scandal' clear, there will be nothing to it.

I read an explanation lat night of why the deletion of the emails happened the way it happened, and it reads as credible if you are a Democrat, about 50% believable if you are neutral, and evidence of every crime committed since the Crucifixion if you are a Trump supporter. None of this will matter after the election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:18:02 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 01:11:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:55:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'

So far on this thread we have had suggestions of:

Pedophile ring details?
Corruption payment bank account numbers?
Graphic details of her lesbian encounters?

What do you think will be in these emails Whitey?

I honestly don't know, but to risk permanently deleting 30000 emails that were under subpoena, I'd say it's something pretty bad.

The day after The NY Times broke the story about the private server.....Wikileaks havand John Podesta saying "We are going to have to dump all those emails"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-01/podesta-mills-we-are-going-have-dump-all-those-emails

I'm far from an expert on this stuff, but 15 years ago I was a lower level employee at a company going on trough an SEC investigation. If I recall correctly armed FBI agents show up at some of  He executives houses to seize laptops....it's mind boggling that someone would delete emails that are under subponea

It's not though, it is sheer arrogance and absolute faith that Hillary is untouchable.

You do not delete emails whilst under subpoena unless you are an arrogant bitch that thinks her shit don't stink and her minnions bought into her being bullet proof.

You are the only one saying she is 'untouchable'. Then you argue why she isn't.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 02, 2016, 01:47:08 PM
Interesting article about the urban vs suburban/rural divide in US politics.  Surprised to read that only three of the 25 largest cities in America now have Republican mayors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/03/upshot/why-republicans-dont-even-try-to-win-cities-anymore.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fus&action=click&contentCollection=us&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=4&pgtype=sectionfront (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/03/upshot/why-republicans-dont-even-try-to-win-cities-anymore.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fus&action=click&contentCollection=us&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=4&pgtype=sectionfront)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:51:23 PM
Interesting document on Congressional subpoenas.

https://www.mayerbrown.com/files/Publication/ec1203b2-a787-44ac-8344-5d5fab374ffa/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/11509b8b-df81-4db6-9e89-1d1b16c20856/White-Paper-Congressional-Subpoena.pdf (https://www.mayerbrown.com/files/Publication/ec1203b2-a787-44ac-8344-5d5fab374ffa/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/11509b8b-df81-4db6-9e89-1d1b16c20856/White-Paper-Congressional-Subpoena.pdf)

Can anyone find a link showing that the House is considering holding Hillary (not an aide) in contempt? I can't at the moment. While this whole email thing is obviously politically motivated, I reckon even the Republicans won't cross too many lines, in case Democrats win the House the next time and start issuing their own subpoenas. Sad state of affairs if that is the case.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2016, 02:21:57 PM
The Democrats are cowards when it comes to wielding congressional investigations as a political weapon.

You think there would have been 8 or 9 separate House investigations into Benghazi if the roles were reversed? Likewise would a GOP president have been treated like Bill Clinton? Fox News and talk radio and the rest would have been up in arms about abuse of power.

Pelosi could have went to town on the Bush administration from 07-11. She didn't.

Doesn't mean she was necessarily wrong, but it does illustrate the difference between the parties.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2016, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2016, 02:21:57 PM
The Democrats are cowards when it comes to wielding congressional investigations as a political weapon.

You think there would have been 8 or 9 separate House investigations into Benghazi if the roles were reversed? Likewise would a GOP president have been treated like Bill Clinton? Fox News and talk radio and the rest would have been up in arms about abuse of power.

Pelosi could have went to town on the Bush administration from 07-11. She didn't.

Doesn't mean she was necessarily wrong, but it does illustrate the difference between the parties.
Benghazi is significant because of the warmongering and neglect but Bush did it as well

There was virtually no progress on US chronic issues during Obama's time. Obamacare is a disaster. He didn't touch healthcare as a % of GDP, vets, income inequality or 1% taxation. He got no cooperation from the GOP. and it will be even worse next administration. The polarisation has intensified.

the big question is who benefits from the political deadlock. The answer is the ultra rich
It's a plutocracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2016, 03:40:01 PM
DOJ official tipping off Podesta on Hillary email investigation.....email just released by Wiki
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.

The cost of healthcare is a huge issue, people that are on the family healthcare plan where I work are $17000 out of pocket before their healthcare plan kicks in.
No matter who wins this election the middle class will be forgotten about again until 2020, I have no faith in either candidate. The only positive in this campaign is Trump managing to piss off the establishment of both parties, maybe the parties will finally start to listen to us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2016, 04:25:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95a6HyN8X14
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.

The cost of healthcare is a huge issue, people that are on the family healthcare plan where I work are $17000 out of pocket before their healthcare plan kicks in.
No matter who wins this election the middle class will be forgotten about again until 2020, I have no faith in either candidate. The only positive in this campaign is Trump managing to piss off the establishment of both parties, maybe the parties will finally start to listen to us.

They will stop even pretending to listen on the 9th November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2016, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.

The cost of healthcare is a huge issue, people that are on the family healthcare plan where I work are $17000 out of pocket before their healthcare plan kicks in.
No matter who wins this election the middle class will be forgotten about again until 2020, I have no faith in either candidate. The only positive in this campaign is Trump managing to piss off the establishment of both parties, maybe the parties will finally start to listen to us.

What's the employee contribution to your work healthcare plan?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 04:51:31 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/before-you-go/10239953/Theres-a-world-of-difference-in-the-cost-of-treatment-abroad.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/before-you-go/10239953/Theres-a-world-of-difference-in-the-cost-of-treatment-abroad.html)

..The degree of price variations is bought home in a new report by the London-based International Federation of Health Plans, representing 100 insurance companies. The average cost of a CT scan for the head is US$82 in Argentina, US$175 in UK and US$566 in America.

The highest prices for what is a routine procedure can be around US$1,672 in America, according to figures from the World Health Organisation and OECD. On the surgical front, average prices for appendix removal are (all US$):

Argentina 953
Spain 2,245
South Africa 3,381
UK 3,408
Chile 4,221
France 4,463
Netherlands 4,498
Switzerland 4,782
New Zealand 5,392
Australia 5,467
USA 8,156

Disparities are smaller, but still significant, on prescription drug charges, the report says. Vytorin, for high cholesterol, costs an average, in US$:

Argentina 31
New Zealand 55
UK 68
Switzerland 70
Spain 80
USA 120


The above doesn't take into account the litigious culture in the States and the cost of insurance for medics and hospitals etc. But it seems to me the solution for the cost of health care has to start with the lowering of health costs. Having said that, we could do with tackling claims and insurance costs here too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:55:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2016, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.

The cost of healthcare is a huge issue, people that are on the family healthcare plan where I work are $17000 out of pocket before their healthcare plan kicks in.
No matter who wins this election the middle class will be forgotten about again until 2020, I have no faith in either candidate. The only positive in this campaign is Trump managing to piss off the establishment of both parties, maybe the parties will finally start to listen to us.

What's the employee contribution to your work healthcare plan?

They pay $1000 a month for healtcare, then they have a High Deductible plan at a $5000 deductible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.

The cost of healthcare is a huge issue, people that are on the family healthcare plan where I work are $17000 out of pocket before their healthcare plan kicks in.
No matter who wins this election the middle class will be forgotten about again until 2020, I have no faith in either candidate. The only positive in this campaign is Trump managing to piss off the establishment of both parties, maybe the parties will finally start to listen to us.

They will stop even pretending to listen on the 9th November.

You know it :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2016, 05:20:59 PM
Healthcare is 18% of GDP increasing at 4% a year
It's nearly twice as expensive as European healthcare and Yanks die younger
Throw in prisons and you get one quarter of US economic activity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2016, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:55:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2016, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.

The cost of healthcare is a huge issue, people that are on the family healthcare plan where I work are $17000 out of pocket before their healthcare plan kicks in.
No matter who wins this election the middle class will be forgotten about again until 2020, I have no faith in either candidate. The only positive in this campaign is Trump managing to piss off the establishment of both parties, maybe the parties will finally start to listen to us.

What's the employee contribution to your work healthcare plan?

They pay $1000 a month for healtcare, then they have a High Deductible plan at a $5000 deductible.

That's a fair bit all right.

What's the solution though?

The whole ACA was based on getting everyone into the pool, but it looks like many young people have been content to pay the relatively modest penalty instead, leaving a pool of older people who use their insurance a lot more heavily. As a result, the premiums have kept going up.

Trump or the GOP ain't going to solve it, I'll tell you that much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2016, 07:39:08 PM
Given that Seamus (and previously, stew) brought the attention of the board to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein and his alleged ties to Bill Clinton, it might be of interest to them to know that the, at the time, 13 year old who has a suit in the courts accusing Trump of child rape, also at an Epstein thing, is due to give a press conference later today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2016, 07:48:59 PM
Is there a rock bottom in this race??

You'd laugh if you didn't feel like crying!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 02, 2016, 07:57:51 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.

The cost of healthcare is a huge issue, people that are on the family healthcare plan where I work are $17000 out of pocket before their healthcare plan kicks in.
No matter who wins this election the middle class will be forgotten about again until 2020, I have no faith in either candidate. The only positive in this campaign is Trump managing to piss off the establishment of both parties, maybe the parties will finally start to listen to us.

That's huge - what plan is that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 08:10:03 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 02, 2016, 07:57:51 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 02, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 08:09:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-hillary-clinton-email-debacle-is-a-far-cry-from-watergate-1.2850495?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

The Irish medias handling of this election is horrendous, biased beyond belief, it reminds me of the murder in Wisconsin were the sheep watch a slanted money making documentary and suddenly everyone is a subject matter expert.

Trump is mental, Clinton is worse, she is an otherworldly selfish bitch who will do anything and destroy anyone to get to the ultimate office.

I loved the USA, sadly I find myself caring less and less, when you have middle class Americans, you know, people that actually work for a living, having a $14,000 deductible before their benefits kick in, what incentive is there to work hard, pay taxes and prosper through hard graft, all of this whilst the unemployed pay nada into the system.

Obama is an absolute hypocrite and a nightmare, in my lifetime the single worst President of all time, and there have been some bad ones in my 52 years.

The cost of healthcare is a huge issue, people that are on the family healthcare plan where I work are $17000 out of pocket before their healthcare plan kicks in.
No matter who wins this election the middle class will be forgotten about again until 2020, I have no faith in either candidate. The only positive in this campaign is Trump managing to piss off the establishment of both parties, maybe the parties will finally start to listen to us.

That's huge - what plan is that?

Cigna Choice Fund OA Plus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 02, 2016, 11:40:09 PM
Don't mean to come across as doubting you or anything I am interested as I had a lot of dealings with my own plan last year.
When I look that plan up the family deductible is $4000 - it's seem fairly similar to mine. Where does the 17k come from?

I assume the employer makes a contribution to HSA fund as well? Mine is 750 single 1200 family/year on that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 02, 2016, 11:48:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2016, 07:39:08 PM
Given that Seamus (and previously, stew) brought the attention of the board to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein and his alleged ties to Bill Clinton, it might be of interest to them to know that the, at the time, 13 year old who has a suit in the courts accusing Trump of child rape, also at an Epstein thing, is due to give a press conference later today.

She pulled out of it... 6 more days to go! I'll be glad when it's all over!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 02, 2016, 11:49:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'

So far on this thread we have had suggestions of:

Pedophile ring details?
Corruption payment bank account numbers?
Graphic details of her lesbian encounters?

What do you think will be in these emails Whitey?

I hate Clinton but I have not one inkling nor interest in listening to either Clinton being linked to child molesters! Trump? same thing applies.

The DOJ has a lot to answer for here, c***ts dont know the meaning of the word justice if you ask me.

Harry Reid is the second worst kn**ker in the democrat party, usurping pelosi for that title.

America is at rock bottom folks, I am ashamed to love this country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 11:49:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'

So far on this thread we have had suggestions of:

Pedophile ring details?
Corruption payment bank account numbers?
Graphic details of her lesbian encounters?

What do you think will be in these emails Whitey?

I hate Clinton but I have not one inkling nor interest in listening to either Clinton being linked to child molesters! Trump? same thing applies.

The DOJ has a lot to answer for here, c***ts dont know the meaning of the word justice if you ask me.

Harry Reid is the second worst kn**ker in the democrat party, usurping pelosi for that title.

America is at rock bottom folks, I am ashamed to love this country.

Alright Stew, off you go.....

Explain the word justice and how the DOJ has denied you, Trump or whoever it is you are speaking on behalf of, 'justice', with regard to Hillary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 03, 2016, 12:14:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 11:49:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'

So far on this thread we have had suggestions of:

Pedophile ring details?
Corruption payment bank account numbers?
Graphic details of her lesbian encounters?

What do you think will be in these emails Whitey?

I hate Clinton but I have not one inkling nor interest in listening to either Clinton being linked to child molesters! Trump? same thing applies.

The DOJ has a lot to answer for here, c***ts dont know the meaning of the word justice if you ask me.

Harry Reid is the second worst kn**ker in the democrat party, usurping pelosi for that title.

America is at rock bottom folks, I am ashamed to love this country.

Alright Stew, off you go.....

Explain the word justice and how the DOJ has denied you, Trump or whoever it is you are speaking on behalf of, 'justice', with regard to Hillary.

I am not a yank, they have denied me nothing.

As for the American people......................................hmmmmmmmm, they are sellouts of the lowest order.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:23:17 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 11:49:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 02, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 02, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
With this 'debacle' for Clinton, is it a possibility that Trump might win?

Its looking like a close thing.

Either way America is fucked.

Even if she wins.....it's not over

I said 2 weeks ago that something may come out t that would prevent her from taking office or getting impeached after taking office.......and that was before I knew about the 650000 emails on Wieners laptop!!!!'

So far on this thread we have had suggestions of:

Pedophile ring details?
Corruption payment bank account numbers?
Graphic details of her lesbian encounters?

What do you think will be in these emails Whitey?

I hate Clinton but I have not one inkling nor interest in listening to either Clinton being linked to child molesters! Trump? same thing applies.

The DOJ has a lot to answer for here, c***ts dont know the meaning of the word justice if you ask me.

Harry Reid is the second worst kn**ker in the democrat party, usurping pelosi for that title.

America is at rock bottom folks, I am ashamed to love this country.

Alright Stew, off you go.....

Explain the word justice and how the DOJ has denied you, Trump or whoever it is you are speaking on behalf of, 'justice', with regard to Hillary.


DOJ investigation is completely compromised....today Wiki published  an email
from a senior DOJ official to Podesta giving him a "heads up" about where the hey were with the investigation. The whole thing was a sham

The Clintons are even more corrupt and bigger cvnts than I gave them credit for
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 01:34:48 AM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2016, 11:49:20 PM

I hate Clinton but I have not one inkling nor interest in listening to either Clinton being linked to child molesters! Trump? same thing applies.

The DOJ has a lot to answer for here, c***ts dont know the meaning of the word justice if you ask me.

Harry Reid is the second worst kn**ker in the democrat party, usurping pelosi for that title.

America is at rock bottom folks, I am ashamed to love this country.

Its good that you've changed your mind stew:

Quote from: stew on May 17, 2016, 11:41:35 PM
Bubba dismissed his security detail to travel with Epstein, a friend and known paedophile who used to molest scores of young girls, sometimes at 'orgy island'

Bubba could bring his rodent of a wife down yet, he seems to have the sexual appetite of another liberal president JFK.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 01:38:51 AM
You boys are outraged at every single headline, soundbite or nibble of a story as long as it somehow maybe, might connect to Hillary. The DOJ is investigating Huma's emails, along with the FBI. So far no one has found anything.

The DOJ makes a comment in an email regarding an ongoing investigation = 'completely compromised' investigation.

FBI Chief writes an open letter to Congress regarding an ongoing investigation = .............



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 02:22:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 01:38:51 AM
You boys are outraged at every single headline, soundbite or nibble of a story as long as it somehow maybe, might connect to Hillary. The DOJ is investigating Huma's emails, along with the FBI. So far no one has found anything.

The DOJ makes a comment in an email regarding an ongoing investigation = 'completely compromised' investigation.

FBI Chief writes an open letter to Congress regarding an ongoing investigation = .............

Completely false equivalence on your W behalf as usual

DOJ official emailed Clinton campaign directly from a personal email account to give them a "heads up" while the investigation is ongoing....serious violation and a torrent of shot coming his way.

Add in Loretta Lynch's little private get together with Bill Clinton in Phoenix....looks very bad all round

On the other hand Hillarys Email investigation was not reopened....it was an ongoing investigation and material information had surfaced which contradicted Comeys sworn testimony to Clngress...he was obligated to notify them.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on November 03, 2016, 03:28:31 AM
The United States has become so corrupt that it's inevitable that a massive cleansing has to take place before it returns to a Republic form of government. I expect most of what Mike Adams predicts will unfold before our eyes beginning within the next week.  Sections within the US government and the awakened public have had enough. My hope is for a peaceful transition, the only chance of this happening is if Hillary does not steal the election. The mainstream media poll results are completely fabricated, Trump is winning by a landslide which even George Soros admits. Quote " Trump will win the popular vote by a landslide but Hillary will win the Electoral College" Unquote

http://www.naturalnews.com/055863_deep_state_Clinton_cartel_damning_evidence.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 03, 2016, 03:50:30 AM
Seamus,
you're having a laugh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 09:50:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 02:22:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 01:38:51 AM
You boys are outraged at every single headline, soundbite or nibble of a story as long as it somehow maybe, might connect to Hillary. The DOJ is investigating Huma's emails, along with the FBI. So far no one has found anything.

The DOJ makes a comment in an email regarding an ongoing investigation = 'completely compromised' investigation.

FBI Chief writes an open letter to Congress regarding an ongoing investigation = .............

Completely false equivalence on your W behalf as usual

DOJ official emailed Clinton campaign directly from a personal email account to give them a "heads up" while the investigation is ongoing....serious violation and a torrent of shot coming his way.

Add in Loretta Lynch's little private get together with Bill Clinton in Phoenix....looks very bad all round

On the other hand Hillarys Email investigation was not reopened....it was an ongoing investigation and material information had surfaced which contradicted Comeys sworn testimony to Clngress...he was obligated to notify them.

False equivalence again.

Comey's email was unnecessary and completely partisan. But hey, that's ok because it might swing the election for Trump.

DOJ email has been published with no context. Investigations frequently communicate privately with parties involved. Sometimes they use bait, set traps or throw out some rope to see if people hang themselves.

The damage Comey's emails, which is all innuendo and no facts, did is obvious. Now tell me, what specific damage did the DOJ email do to the investigation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 10:26:42 AM
Quote from: Seamus on November 03, 2016, 03:28:31 AM
The United States has become so corrupt that it's inevitable that a massive cleansing has to take place before it returns to a Republic form of government. I expect most of what Mike Adams predicts will unfold before our eyes beginning within the next week.  Sections within the US government and the awakened public have had enough. My hope is for a peaceful transition, the only chance of this happening is if Hillary does not steal the election. The mainstream media poll results are completely fabricated, Trump is winning by a landslide which even George Soros admits. Quote " Trump will win the popular vote by a landslide but Hillary will win the Electoral College" Unquote

http://www.naturalnews.com/055863_deep_state_Clinton_cartel_damning_evidence.html

So if Trump loses, no peaceful transition, huh?

You whack jobs were convinced you were winning in 2012 with the whole Unskewed Polls nonsense too. At least most of the mainstream GOP pols learned their lesson after that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 11:43:31 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 09:50:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 02:22:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 01:38:51 AM
You boys are outraged at every single headline, soundbite or nibble of a story as long as it somehow maybe, might connect to Hillary. The DOJ is investigating Huma's emails, along with the FBI. So far no one has found anything.

The DOJ makes a comment in an email regarding an ongoing investigation = 'completely compromised' investigation.

FBI Chief writes an open letter to Congress regarding an ongoing investigation = .............

Completely false equivalence on your W behalf as usual

DOJ official emailed Clinton campaign directly from a personal email account to give them a "heads up" while the investigation is ongoing....serious violation and a torrent of shot coming his way.

Add in Loretta Lynch's little private get together with Bill Clinton in Phoenix....looks very bad all round

On the other hand Hillarys Email investigation was not reopened....it was an ongoing investigation and material information had surfaced which contradicted Comeys sworn testimony to Clngress...he was obligated to notify them.

False equivalence again.

Comey's email was unnecessary and completely partisan. But hey, that's ok because it might swing the election for Trump.

DOJ email has been published with no context. Investigations frequently communicate privately with parties involved. Sometimes they use bait, set traps or throw out some rope to see if people hang themselves.

The damage Comey's emails, which is all innuendo and no facts, did is obvious. Now tell me, what specific damage did the DOJ email do to the investigation?

Hahaha....so now that he DOJ was trying to set a trap for Hillary....you made me morning with a hat one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 12:01:42 PM
Five days out, things getting very tight.

Nate Silver has Hillary with a 66% chance of winning, down from around 85% a week or so ago.

He has electoral college at 294-244.

That's with giving Florida and North Carolina to Trump when they're in and around 50-50.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo (http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 11:43:31 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 09:50:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 02:22:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 01:38:51 AM
You boys are outraged at every single headline, soundbite or nibble of a story as long as it somehow maybe, might connect to Hillary. The DOJ is investigating Huma's emails, along with the FBI. So far no one has found anything.

The DOJ makes a comment in an email regarding an ongoing investigation = 'completely compromised' investigation.

FBI Chief writes an open letter to Congress regarding an ongoing investigation = .............

Completely false equivalence on your W behalf as usual

DOJ official emailed Clinton campaign directly from a personal email account to give them a "heads up" while the investigation is ongoing....serious violation and a torrent of shot coming his way.

Add in Loretta Lynch's little private get together with Bill Clinton in Phoenix....looks very bad all round

On the other hand Hillarys Email investigation was not reopened....it was an ongoing investigation and material information had surfaced which contradicted Comeys sworn testimony to Clngress...he was obligated to notify them.

False equivalence again.

Comey's email was unnecessary and completely partisan. But hey, that's ok because it might swing the election for Trump.

DOJ email has been published with no context. Investigations frequently communicate privately with parties involved. Sometimes they use bait, set traps or throw out some rope to see if people hang themselves.

The damage Comey's emails, which is all innuendo and no facts, did is obvious. Now tell me, what specific damage did the DOJ email do to the investigation?

Hahaha....so now that he DOJ was trying to set a trap for Hillary....you made me morning with a hat one

Nope. That is not what I said. No need to misrepresent me.

I said there was 'no context' provided with the email. The last time you quoted emails you didn't bother to read the rest of them, which provided a context you never saw. This time Wiki didn't provide any other emails so 'no context'. I simply make 3 suggestions as examples, there could be any number of possible contexts.

Again, you just read what you want.

Dunno what to make of Eamon Mallie but this tweet is interesting:

Eamonn Mallie ‏@EamonnMallie  3h3 hours ago
It's evident Donald Trump is getting information about what is coming down the line. He said Thursday would be eventful for H/C....It was..

If this was Hillary, Whitey would be outraged.

But when it is the other way round, nothing. Double standards as always.

And why is Wikileaks helping Trump? Is it because Snowden was given asylum in Russia for 3 years?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:15:34 PM
I wouldn't doubt Trump is getting inside info from somewhere ....the only way you beat the Clintons is to beat them at their own game.

Blame Comey all you want, but had Huma not committed perjury by claiming she had returned all devices containing emails.....this issue would not have resurfaced.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:15:34 PM
I wouldn't doubt Trump is getting inside info from somewhere ....the only way you beat the Clintons is to beat them at their own game.

Blame Comey all you want, but had Huma not committed perjury by claiming she had returned all devices containing emails.....this issue would not have resurfaced.

Prove she committed perjury.

Please, include in your proof, evidence of her specific intent (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Specific+Intent).


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:15:34 PM
I wouldn't doubt Trump is getting inside info from somewhere ....the only way you beat the Clintons is to beat them at their own game.

Blame Comey all you want, but had Huma not committed perjury by claiming she had returned all devices containing emails.....this issue would not have resurfaced.

Prove she committed perjury.

Please, include in your proof, evidence of her specific intent (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Specific+Intent).

Not my place to prove or disprove anything

She gave testimony under oath that had turned out to be false and that action, by her and by her alone has resulted in this thing blowing wide open.   They only have themselves to blame not Comey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:15:34 PM
I wouldn't doubt Trump is getting inside info from somewhere ....the only way you beat the Clintons is to beat them at their own game.

Blame Comey all you want, but had Huma not committed perjury by claiming she had returned all devices containing emails.....this issue would not have resurfaced.

Prove she committed perjury.

Please, include in your proof, evidence of her specific intent (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Specific+Intent).

Not my place to prove or disprove anything

She gave testimony under oath that had turned out to be false and that action, by her and by her alone has resulted in this thing blowing wide open.   They only have themselves to blame not Comey

You have already found her guilty of perjury. You said: 'had Huma not committed perjury by claiming she had returned all devices containing emails'.

Just like this guy:

"If I was President, you would be in jail!"

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0bBMII5LYw8/V_sPya3WJ0I/AAAAAAACoxE/3cC1_DLsPd0TCA1LVQzxmjFQokaoZWudwCLcB/s1600/optimized-zsxq.png)

No charge.
No investigation.
No process.
No rights.
No trail.

Just jail.


Trump would be in good company, throwing political opponents in jail:

Putin
Viktor Yanukovych
Kim Jong-un
Ali Khamenei
Robert Mugabe
Idi Amin
<tries desperately to avoid Godwin>
Stalin
Mussolini
etc.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:15:34 PM
I wouldn't doubt Trump is getting inside info from somewhere ....the only way you beat the Clintons is to beat them at their own game.

Blame Comey all you want, but had Huma not committed perjury by claiming she had returned all devices containing emails.....this issue would not have resurfaced.

Prove she committed perjury.

Please, include in your proof, evidence of her specific intent (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Specific+Intent).

Not my place to prove or disprove anything

She gave testimony under oath that had turned out to be false and that action, by her and by her alone has resulted in this thing blowing wide open.   They only have themselves to blame not Comey

You have already found her guilty of perjury. You said: 'had Huma not committed perjury by claiming she had returned all devices containing emails'.

Just like this guy:

"If I was President, you would be in jail!"

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0bBMII5LYw8/V_sPya3WJ0I/AAAAAAACoxE/3cC1_DLsPd0TCA1LVQzxmjFQokaoZWudwCLcB/s1600/optimized-zsxq.png)

No charge.
No investigation.
No process.
No rights.
No trail.

Just jail.


Trump would be in good company, throwing political opponents in jail:

Putin
Viktor Yanukovych
Kim Jong-un
Ali Khamenei
Robert Mugabe
Idi Amin
<tries desperately to avoid Godwin>
Stalin
Mussolini
etc.

It's a discussion board...in my opinion she committed perjury. Your opinion is that she didn't. You give her the benefit of the doubt, I don't.

If the emails weren't on that laptop,we wouldn't be having this discussion. Her actions and carelessness have created this October Surprise....they only have them selves to blame
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 01:04:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 12:15:34 PM
I wouldn't doubt Trump is getting inside info from somewhere ....the only way you beat the Clintons is to beat them at their own game.

Blame Comey all you want, but had Huma not committed perjury by claiming she had returned all devices containing emails.....this issue would not have resurfaced.

Prove she committed perjury.

Please, include in your proof, evidence of her specific intent (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Specific+Intent).

Not my place to prove or disprove anything

She gave testimony under oath that had turned out to be false and that action, by her and by her alone has resulted in this thing blowing wide open.   They only have themselves to blame not Comey

You have already found her guilty of perjury. You said: 'had Huma not committed perjury by claiming she had returned all devices containing emails'.

Just like this guy:

"If I was President, you would be in jail!"

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0bBMII5LYw8/V_sPya3WJ0I/AAAAAAACoxE/3cC1_DLsPd0TCA1LVQzxmjFQokaoZWudwCLcB/s1600/optimized-zsxq.png)

No charge.
No investigation.
No process.
No rights.
No trail.

Just jail.


Trump would be in good company, throwing political opponents in jail:

Putin
Viktor Yanukovych
Kim Jong-un
Ali Khamenei
Robert Mugabe
Idi Amin
<tries desperately to avoid Godwin>
Stalin
Mussolini
etc.

It's a discussion board...in my opinion she committed perjury. Your opinion is that she didn't. You give her the benefit of the doubt, I don't.

She is entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Legally, she has the benefit of the doubt.

In my opinion, you may have libelled her.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 01:17:25 PM
370 economists, including 8 Nobel Prize winners, weigh in on Trump's bullshit:

(Word like "conspiracy theory", "mislead", "misrepresent", "deep ignorance", "fake" and "magical thinking" feature prominently.)

We, the undersigned economists, represent a broad variety of areas of expertise and are united in our opposition to Donald Trump. We recommend that voters choose a different candidate on the following grounds:

 He degrades trust in vital public institutions that collect and disseminate information about the economy, such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics, by spreading disinformation about the integrity of their work.

 He has misled voters in states like Ohio and Michigan by asserting that the renegotiation of NAFTA or the imposition of tariffs on China would substantially increase employment in manufacturing. In fact, manufacturing's share of employment has been declining since the 1970s and is mostly related to automation, not trade.

 He claims to champion former manufacturing workers, but has no plan to assist their transition to well-compensated service sector positions. Instead, he has diverted the policy discussion to options that ignore both the reality of technological progress and the benefits of international trade.

 He has misled the public by asserting that U.S. manufacturing has declined. The location and product composition of manufacturing has changed, but the level of output has more than doubled in the U.S. since the 1980s.

 He has falsely suggested that trade is zero-sum and that the "toughness" of negotiators primarily drives trade deficits.

 He has misled the public with false statements about trade agreements eroding national income and wealth. Although the gains have not been equally distributed—and this is an important discussion in itself—both mean income and mean wealth have risen substantially in the U.S. since the 1980s.

 He has lowered the seriousness of the national dialogue by suggesting that the elimination of the Environmental Protection Agency or the Department of Education would significantly reduce the fiscal deficit. A credible solution will require an increase in tax revenue and/or a reduction in spending on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or Defense.

 He claims he will eliminate the fiscal deficit, but has proposed a plan that would decrease tax revenue by $2.6 to $5.9 trillion over the next decade according to the non-partisan Tax Foundation.

 He claims that he will reduce the trade deficit, but has proposed a reduction in public saving that is likely to increase it.

 He uses immigration as a red herring to mislead voters about issues of economic importance, such as the stagnation of wages for households with low levels of education. Several forces are responsible for this, but immigration appears to play only a modest role. Focusing the dialogue on this channel, rather than more substantive channels, such as automation, diverts the public debate to unproductive policy options.

 He has misled the electorate by asserting that the U.S. is one of the most heavily taxed countries. While the U.S. has a high top statutory corporate tax rate, the average effective rate is much lower, and taxes on income and consumption are relatively low. Overall, the U.S. has one of the lowest ratios of tax revenue to GDP in the OECD.

 His statements reveal a deep ignorance of economics and an inability to listen to credible experts. He repeats fake and misleading economic statistics, and pushes fallacies about the VAT and trade competitiveness.

 He promotes magical thinking and conspiracy theories over sober assessments of feasible economic policy options.

Donald Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality. If elected, he poses a unique danger to the functioning of democratic and economic institutions, and to the prosperity of the country. For these reasons, we strongly recommend that you do not vote for Donald Trump.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/EconomistLetter11012016.pdf (http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/EconomistLetter11012016.pdf)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 01:33:14 PM
Trump is a fvckin buffoon

The fact that he's within 20 points shows how fvckin bad Hillary is

I think he actually may win this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 01:36:09 PM
Here is a real person who stole real classified information, for the purpose of spying, and delivered it to a foreign Government. He took National Defence related documents, including info about nuclear weapons, the F-15 Fighter and the Patriot Missile.

He was fined $50,000.  :D

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/30/nyregion/30kadish.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/30/nyregion/30kadish.html)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 01:37:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 01:33:14 PM
Trump is a fvckin buffoon

The fact that he's within 20 points shows how fvckin bad Hillary is

I think he actually may win this

He will win because of the double standards that apply to Hillary and not to Trump.

You, Stew and everyone else are holding the door open for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 01:50:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 01:33:14 PM
Trump is a fvckin buffoon

The fact that he's within 20 points shows how fvckin bad Hillary is

I think he actually may win this

Do you really think Trump is NOT as corrupt as she is alleged to be?

This is a man who has openly boasted of (and campaigned upon) buying political favours and strong-arming politicians left right and center.

There are all kinds of allegations against him involving mafia connections, misuse of charity funds, rape/sexual abuse/harassment, dodgy financial connections to Russia, fraudulent university etc.

Which leaves us with two extremely personally flawed candidates.

So we're left with their actually policy proposals.

Trump's are pie in the sky, conspiracy-based, populist bullshit. To borrow a few examples from the Simpson's, he's like Homer running for Sanitation Commissioner or the Monorail guy.

Hillary's, while no doubt inflated and over-optimistic like those of all candidates, are based in actual reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 02:11:33 PM
It would be impossible to be in real estate in NYC for 40 years and not be in bed with some unsavory Characters.

Regarding bankruptcies and lawsuits.....that's par for the course with real estate. I have immediate family members in that line of business and everyone is always suing everyone else, and bankruptcies are quite normal when we have market downturns or collapses.

He's unfit for office, but she's equally unfit.

With all the shit that has come out about her, and future shit that may come out of a he 650000 times mails there is a very y good possibility that she and/or Bill will get indicted. Credible news sources are already reporting that the Clinton Foundation will come under FBI investigation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 02:13:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 02:11:33 PM
It would be impossible to be in real estate in NYC for 40 years and not be in bed with some unsavory Characters.

Regarding bankruptcies and lawsuits.....that's par for the course with real estate. I have immediate family members in that line of business and everyone is always suing everyone else, and bankruptcies are quite normal when we have market downturns or collapses.

He's unfit for office, but she's equally unfit.

With all the shit that has come out about her, and future shit that may come out of a he 650000 times mails there is a very y good possibility that she and/or Bill will get indicted. Credible news sources are already reporting that the Clinton Foundation will come under FBI investigation

What shit has come out about her?

Other than innuendo, there isn't even a specific charge against her, except of course your guilty when I say so verdicts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 02:20:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 02:11:33 PM
It would be impossible to be in real estate in NYC for 40 years and not be in bed with some unsavory Characters.

Regarding bankruptcies and lawsuits.....that's par for the course with real estate. I have immediate family members in that line of business and everyone is always suing everyone else, and bankruptcies are quite normal when we have market downturns or collapses.

He's unfit for office, but she's equally unfit.

With all the shit that has come out about her, and future shit that may come out of a he 650000 times mails there is a very y good possibility that she and/or Bill will get indicted. Credible news sources are already reporting that the Clinton Foundation will come under FBI investigation

I didn't mention the bankruptcies. Or the stiffing of contractors as a matter of business practice.

Of course, they should be considered in the overall Trump package as he is basing his candidacy on his supposed business know-how and prowess.

But, I don't know that they could be included under corruption.

On the mafia, most of the NYC real estate giants cooperated with the feds back in the 80s in their investigations. A big exception was Trump.

Regardless, my point is that if you have a choice between two (to use your own words) unfit-for-office candidates, then the realism and basis of the campaign promises should come into it, no?

And on that basis, Hillary wins, hands down.

Which doesn't mean she's ideal or even moderately desirable. Just likely to be a hell of a lot more competent and better for the country than a man who has Steve Bannon and Alex Jones whispering in his ear.

And with the way the GOP senate is making noise about also adopting scorched-earth politics, a damage-control presidency, using the veto pen, is maybe the best we can hope for anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 02:29:59 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/paul-manafort-russia-connections-fbi-donald-trump-2016-10?r=US&IR=T (http://uk.businessinsider.com/paul-manafort-russia-connections-fbi-donald-trump-2016-10?r=US&IR=T)

The FBI is reportedly looking into potential ties Donald Trump's former campaign manager may have had with Russia.

The inquiry apparently stems from alleged foreign business connections Paul Manafort may have had with Russian entities, according to a report published by NBC News on Monday evening.

Manafort, who served as Trump's campaign manager for several months before parting ways with the Republican presidential nominee in August, denied he had any business relationship with the Kremlin, telling NBC that "none of it is true."

"There's no investigation going on by the FBI that I'm aware of," he said.

Current Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway, asked about the report on MSNBC Monday night, referred to Manafort's comments.

The New York Times reported in August that a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine advised by Manafort designated $12.7 million in undisclosed cash payments for him between 2007-12. It is unclear what exactly the series of 22 payments designated for Manafort were for.

The FBI's inquiry raises questions about the possibility that Russia may be attempting to influence the US presidential election. Those concerns have been amplified by Trump's foreign policy rhetoric that some observers say is curiously favorable to Russia and its president, Vladimir Putin. The US intelligence community has accused the Russian government of being behind hacks of Democratic Party organizations this year.

The FBI's inquiry has not yet developed into a full-fledged criminal investigation, NBC News said, and it was unclear whether or not that would happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2016, 02:33:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2016, 01:17:25 PM
370 economists, including 8 Nobel Prize winners, weigh in on Trump's bullshit:

(Word like "conspiracy theory", "mislead", "misrepresent", "deep ignorance", "fake" and "magical thinking" feature prominently.)

We, the undersigned economists, represent a broad variety of areas of expertise and are united in our opposition to Donald Trump. We recommend that voters choose a different candidate on the following grounds:

 He degrades trust in vital public institutions that collect and disseminate information about the economy, such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics, by spreading disinformation about the integrity of their work.

 He has misled voters in states like Ohio and Michigan by asserting that the renegotiation of NAFTA or the imposition of tariffs on China would substantially increase employment in manufacturing. In fact, manufacturing's share of employment has been declining since the 1970s and is mostly related to automation, not trade.

 He claims to champion former manufacturing workers, but has no plan to assist their transition to well-compensated service sector positions. Instead, he has diverted the policy discussion to options that ignore both the reality of technological progress and the benefits of international trade.

 He has misled the public by asserting that U.S. manufacturing has declined. The location and product composition of manufacturing has changed, but the level of output has more than doubled in the U.S. since the 1980s.

 He has falsely suggested that trade is zero-sum and that the "toughness" of negotiators primarily drives trade deficits.

 He has misled the public with false statements about trade agreements eroding national income and wealth. Although the gains have not been equally distributed—and this is an important discussion in itself—both mean income and mean wealth have risen substantially in the U.S. since the 1980s.

 He has lowered the seriousness of the national dialogue by suggesting that the elimination of the Environmental Protection Agency or the Department of Education would significantly reduce the fiscal deficit. A credible solution will require an increase in tax revenue and/or a reduction in spending on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or Defense.

 He claims he will eliminate the fiscal deficit, but has proposed a plan that would decrease tax revenue by $2.6 to $5.9 trillion over the next decade according to the non-partisan Tax Foundation.

 He claims that he will reduce the trade deficit, but has proposed a reduction in public saving that is likely to increase it.

 He uses immigration as a red herring to mislead voters about issues of economic importance, such as the stagnation of wages for households with low levels of education. Several forces are responsible for this, but immigration appears to play only a modest role. Focusing the dialogue on this channel, rather than more substantive channels, such as automation, diverts the public debate to unproductive policy options.

 He has misled the electorate by asserting that the U.S. is one of the most heavily taxed countries. While the U.S. has a high top statutory corporate tax rate, the average effective rate is much lower, and taxes on income and consumption are relatively low. Overall, the U.S. has one of the lowest ratios of tax revenue to GDP in the OECD.

 His statements reveal a deep ignorance of economics and an inability to listen to credible experts. He repeats fake and misleading economic statistics, and pushes fallacies about the VAT and trade competitiveness.

 He promotes magical thinking and conspiracy theories over sober assessments of feasible economic policy options.

Donald Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality. If elected, he poses a unique danger to the functioning of democratic and economic institutions, and to the prosperity of the country. For these reasons, we strongly recommend that you do not vote for Donald Trump.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/EconomistLetter11012016.pdf (http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/EconomistLetter11012016.pdf)
"He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions , and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality"

So do economists. So does Hillary
the system is broken.
The Fed is taking the piss
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 02:59:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2016, 02:33:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2016, 01:17:25 PM
370 economists, including 8 Nobel Prize winners, weigh in on Trump's bullshit:

(Word like "conspiracy theory", "mislead", "misrepresent", "deep ignorance", "fake" and "magical thinking" feature prominently.)

We, the undersigned economists, represent a broad variety of areas of expertise and are united in our opposition to Donald Trump. We recommend that voters choose a different candidate on the following grounds:

 He degrades trust in vital public institutions that collect and disseminate information about the economy, such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics, by spreading disinformation about the integrity of their work.

 He has misled voters in states like Ohio and Michigan by asserting that the renegotiation of NAFTA or the imposition of tariffs on China would substantially increase employment in manufacturing. In fact, manufacturing's share of employment has been declining since the 1970s and is mostly related to automation, not trade.

 He claims to champion former manufacturing workers, but has no plan to assist their transition to well-compensated service sector positions. Instead, he has diverted the policy discussion to options that ignore both the reality of technological progress and the benefits of international trade.

 He has misled the public by asserting that U.S. manufacturing has declined. The location and product composition of manufacturing has changed, but the level of output has more than doubled in the U.S. since the 1980s.

 He has falsely suggested that trade is zero-sum and that the "toughness" of negotiators primarily drives trade deficits.

 He has misled the public with false statements about trade agreements eroding national income and wealth. Although the gains have not been equally distributed—and this is an important discussion in itself—both mean income and mean wealth have risen substantially in the U.S. since the 1980s.

 He has lowered the seriousness of the national dialogue by suggesting that the elimination of the Environmental Protection Agency or the Department of Education would significantly reduce the fiscal deficit. A credible solution will require an increase in tax revenue and/or a reduction in spending on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or Defense.

 He claims he will eliminate the fiscal deficit, but has proposed a plan that would decrease tax revenue by $2.6 to $5.9 trillion over the next decade according to the non-partisan Tax Foundation.

 He claims that he will reduce the trade deficit, but has proposed a reduction in public saving that is likely to increase it.

 He uses immigration as a red herring to mislead voters about issues of economic importance, such as the stagnation of wages for households with low levels of education. Several forces are responsible for this, but immigration appears to play only a modest role. Focusing the dialogue on this channel, rather than more substantive channels, such as automation, diverts the public debate to unproductive policy options.

 He has misled the electorate by asserting that the U.S. is one of the most heavily taxed countries. While the U.S. has a high top statutory corporate tax rate, the average effective rate is much lower, and taxes on income and consumption are relatively low. Overall, the U.S. has one of the lowest ratios of tax revenue to GDP in the OECD.

 His statements reveal a deep ignorance of economics and an inability to listen to credible experts. He repeats fake and misleading economic statistics, and pushes fallacies about the VAT and trade competitiveness.

 He promotes magical thinking and conspiracy theories over sober assessments of feasible economic policy options.

Donald Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality. If elected, he poses a unique danger to the functioning of democratic and economic institutions, and to the prosperity of the country. For these reasons, we strongly recommend that you do not vote for Donald Trump.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/EconomistLetter11012016.pdf (http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/EconomistLetter11012016.pdf)
"He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions , and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality"

So do economists. So does Hillary
the system is broken.
The Fed is taking the piss

Sorry, but there's no equivalency here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 03:25:36 PM
Trump is openly praising Putin and talking about the US not giving guaranteed support to NATO countries. Paul Manafort worked for Pro-Russians in the Ukraine.

Brexit is happening.

The EU has sanctions against Russia.

Germanys were told to stockpile food and water for 'Civil Defense' (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37155060)

Lithuania Prepares For Russian Invasion As NATO Sends Troops To Eastern European States (http://www.ibtimes.com/war-europe-lithuania-prepares-russian-invasion-nato-sends-troops-eastern-european-2439095)
Lithuania issues manual on what to do if Russia invades (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/28/europe/lithuania-war-manual/)


If is very easy to see how war could come about in Eastern Europe, within the boundaries of the EU. The isolationism of both Trump and Brexit could open the door to this.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 04:12:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first

For what?

If you answer that, it really would be a first.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 03, 2016, 04:15:24 PM
These kinda sum up my thoughts on the election looking at it from the outside

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14632936_1293732957386422_186559000546941834_n.png?oh=929f9ae2645810686ae5db0ee489d103&oe=58992603)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14910301_10154101767396275_6736412477748040744_n.jpg?oh=6ad33d8bbbf30ff74a171e0ef364ff86&oe=58CF299E)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14937366_1294008194025565_8831050025392205711_n.jpg?oh=a1dd3b21ef75288f76036f76c8414330&oe=58D1006C)

But this photo by Nate Gowdy, of a Trump rally in Loveland, CO, on Oct. 3rd, 2016 is stunning -  Without a single letter of copy, it tells an entire story

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14717094_10154444792991210_6168263340679404203_n.jpg?oh=c71b841a0108875ec5cb15cad57c8258&oe=5891B9D7)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 03, 2016, 04:21:30 PM
At a Trump rally the average age and the average BMI are roughly equivalent. I'd say if you were to measure average IQ it'd be a hat trick.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 04:25:35 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 03, 2016, 04:15:24 PM
These kinda sum up my thoughts on the election looking at it from the outside

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14632936_1293732957386422_186559000546941834_n.png?oh=929f9ae2645810686ae5db0ee489d103&oe=58992603)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14910301_10154101767396275_6736412477748040744_n.jpg?oh=6ad33d8bbbf30ff74a171e0ef364ff86&oe=58CF299E)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14937366_1294008194025565_8831050025392205711_n.jpg?oh=a1dd3b21ef75288f76036f76c8414330&oe=58D1006C)

But this photo by Nate Gowdy, of a Trump rally in Loveland, CO, on Oct. 3rd, 2016 is stunning -  Without a single letter of copy, it tells an entire story

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14717094_10154444792991210_6168263340679404203_n.jpg?oh=c71b841a0108875ec5cb15cad57c8258&oe=5891B9D7)

All that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee at Dunkin Donuts.

She's finished
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 04:26:33 PM
You've said this before about Obama:

Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 07:08:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2014, 12:50:46 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 12, 2014, 12:38:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2014, 12:19:21 PM
Did you watch the clip?

The bill was specifically written in a "tortured" manner (his words, not mine) so as to hide its true costs.

I don't know what you work at, but in my line of work, if I pulled something like that on a client, I would be looking at about 10 years in jail.
In what country do you work?

What planet more likely.

And I did watch the clip. I see a fool boasting about his own self-importance.

And show me the law that puts you in jail for 10 years for writing something in a 'tortured' manner or indeed to hide true costs.

I'm not a legal expert, but at a minimum, I would expect them to go after him for perjury, conspiracy and fraud all of which carry very hefty penalties.  Whether they can get a conviction, thats another issue, but I would not like to be in his shoes right now. This beatdown is going to be epic

Epic?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2016, 04:37:16 PM
Lol...the reason it didn't happen is down to the crooked DOJ

Loretta Lynch is going down too

It will be double epic and maybe even triple epic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 04:49:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 04:37:16 PM
Lol...the reason it didn't happen is down to the crooked DOJ

Loretta Lynch is going down too

It will be double epic and maybe even triple epic

Of course. Everyone remotely non-GOP is crooked.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2016, 05:07:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2016, 02:59:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2016, 02:33:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2016, 01:17:25 PM
370 economists, including 8 Nobel Prize winners, weigh in on Trump's bullshit:

(Word like "conspiracy theory", "mislead", "misrepresent", "deep ignorance", "fake" and "magical thinking" feature prominently.)

We, the undersigned economists, represent a broad variety of areas of expertise and are united in our opposition to Donald Trump. We recommend that voters choose a different candidate on the following grounds:

 He degrades trust in vital public institutions that collect and disseminate information about the economy, such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics, by spreading disinformation about the integrity of their work.

 He has misled voters in states like Ohio and Michigan by asserting that the renegotiation of NAFTA or the imposition of tariffs on China would substantially increase employment in manufacturing. In fact, manufacturing's share of employment has been declining since the 1970s and is mostly related to automation, not trade.

 He claims to champion former manufacturing workers, but has no plan to assist their transition to well-compensated service sector positions. Instead, he has diverted the policy discussion to options that ignore both the reality of technological progress and the benefits of international trade.

 He has misled the public by asserting that U.S. manufacturing has declined. The location and product composition of manufacturing has changed, but the level of output has more than doubled in the U.S. since the 1980s.

 He has falsely suggested that trade is zero-sum and that the "toughness" of negotiators primarily drives trade deficits.

 He has misled the public with false statements about trade agreements eroding national income and wealth. Although the gains have not been equally distributed—and this is an important discussion in itself—both mean income and mean wealth have risen substantially in the U.S. since the 1980s.

 He has lowered the seriousness of the national dialogue by suggesting that the elimination of the Environmental Protection Agency or the Department of Education would significantly reduce the fiscal deficit. A credible solution will require an increase in tax revenue and/or a reduction in spending on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or Defense.

 He claims he will eliminate the fiscal deficit, but has proposed a plan that would decrease tax revenue by $2.6 to $5.9 trillion over the next decade according to the non-partisan Tax Foundation.

 He claims that he will reduce the trade deficit, but has proposed a reduction in public saving that is likely to increase it.

 He uses immigration as a red herring to mislead voters about issues of economic importance, such as the stagnation of wages for households with low levels of education. Several forces are responsible for this, but immigration appears to play only a modest role. Focusing the dialogue on this channel, rather than more substantive channels, such as automation, diverts the public debate to unproductive policy options.

 He has misled the electorate by asserting that the U.S. is one of the most heavily taxed countries. While the U.S. has a high top statutory corporate tax rate, the average effective rate is much lower, and taxes on income and consumption are relatively low. Overall, the U.S. has one of the lowest ratios of tax revenue to GDP in the OECD.

 His statements reveal a deep ignorance of economics and an inability to listen to credible experts. He repeats fake and misleading economic statistics, and pushes fallacies about the VAT and trade competitiveness.

 He promotes magical thinking and conspiracy theories over sober assessments of feasible economic policy options.

Donald Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality. If elected, he poses a unique danger to the functioning of democratic and economic institutions, and to the prosperity of the country. For these reasons, we strongly recommend that you do not vote for Donald Trump.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/EconomistLetter11012016.pdf (http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/EconomistLetter11012016.pdf)
"He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions , and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality"

So do economists. So does Hillary
the system is broken.
The Fed is taking the piss

Sorry, but there's no equivalency here.
It's degrees of open malevolence
Both sides are incompetent

Eminent economists at the Fed told everyone that the US would raise interest rates back to 4% by 2018
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/bernanke20130301a.htm

It didn't happen because they don't understand the economy. One rate rise since of 0.25%
They will not address income inequality. Neither will the Dems.
The US economy is not going to recover.

That is driving the Trump vote and Hillary will not address it
Because she doesn't work for voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 03, 2016, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first

No we didn't!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2016, 05:07:34 PM

It's degrees of open malevolence
Both sides are incompetent

Eminent economists at the Fed told everyone that the US would raise interest rates back to 4% by 2018
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/bernanke20130301a.htm

It didn't happen because they don't understand the economy. One rate rise since of 0.25%
They will not address income inequality. Neither will the Dems.
The US economy is not going to recover.

That is driving the Trump vote and Hillary will not address it
Because she doesn't work for voters.

I'm not going to argue the "degree" bit. By definition, politicians cherry pick evidence, pander, and promise, and due to the checks and balances of the democratic system, can't deliver on all of it.

Economics is not physics or chemisty. There are way too many variables in the mix to make minute, accurate predictions all the time. That doesn't render it useless though.

And it does NOT mean that Trump can't be called on his spectacular lies and bullshit.

Yes, good for him, he identified that certain segments of working class America have suffered under globalization and deindustrialization. Whoop de f**king do. Its been happening for decades. As I've said here before, its affected my own county of Donegal and many parts of Ireland greatly.

That he is seducing these people with promises of trade wars and tariffs and magic beans bringing back these jobs only means that they're stupid and gullible and he is either ignorant or cynical (probably both according to many accounts).

What, out of interest, would you have either Trump OR Hillary do to help these communities?

What should they do for an out of work miner or car plant press operator in his 50s?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 05:24:10 PM
Malania Trump makes her first solo appearance of the campaign, in front of the Dublin Footballers' backroom team.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwWni2wXgAISX-L.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 03, 2016, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 04:37:16 PM
Lol...the reason it didn't happen is down to the crooked DOJ

Loretta Lynch is going down too

It will be double epic and maybe even triple epic

She won't either because she will tell when subpoenaed that her and Bill had a social conversation and as there is nothing to prove otherwise it will more than likely go away. . . not that you GOP morons won't keep shouting about it when you have no proof but sure when did that stop you?

The Party's nominee has faced numerous scandals that would nosedive any other presidential candidacy and yet he won't resign... why would anyone else ever resign again now that Trump has proven you can just ride out the storm and morons will keep following you!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 05:35:33 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-northcarolina-insight-idUSKBN12Y0ZY?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-northcarolina-insight-idUSKBN12Y0ZY?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social)

When Bill McAnulty, an elections board chairman in a mostly white North Carolina county, agreed in July to open a Sunday voting site where black church members could cast ballots after services, the reaction was swift: he was labeled a traitor by his fellow Republicans.

    "I became a villain, quite frankly," recalled McAnulty at a state board of elections meeting in September that had been called to resolve disputes over early voting plans. "I got accused of being a traitor and everything else by the Republican Party," McAnulty said.

   Following the blowback from Republicans, McAnulty later withdrew his support for the Sunday site.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2016, 05:54:21 PM
Hillary is Fianna Fáil in 2005. Respectable but venal and incompetent. Good people will vote for her because of the party and will be shafted when the crash happens. Cowen said "we made decisions with the info available at the time" but didn't talk about what they ignored like she ignores.

Trump is an inter war dictator. Say Hungary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 06:21:37 PM
Seth Meyers absolutely nails it!

https://www.facebook.com/LateNightSeth/videos/752515804899101/ (https://www.facebook.com/LateNightSeth/videos/752515804899101/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2016, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 03, 2016, 04:15:24 PM
These kinda sum up my thoughts on the election looking at it from the outside

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14632936_1293732957386422_186559000546941834_n.png?oh=929f9ae2645810686ae5db0ee489d103&oe=58992603)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14910301_10154101767396275_6736412477748040744_n.jpg?oh=6ad33d8bbbf30ff74a171e0ef364ff86&oe=58CF299E)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14937366_1294008194025565_8831050025392205711_n.jpg?oh=a1dd3b21ef75288f76036f76c8414330&oe=58D1006C)

But this photo by Nate Gowdy, of a Trump rally in Loveland, CO, on Oct. 3rd, 2016 is stunning -  Without a single letter of copy, it tells an entire story

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14717094_10154444792991210_6168263340679404203_n.jpg?oh=c71b841a0108875ec5cb15cad57c8258&oe=5891B9D7)
on the Chris Hayes tweet wonder who are the black panthers and the Muslim brotherhood members voting for ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 10:30:05 PM
Muslim Brotherhood would definitely vote for Trump.

He is a Godsend Allahsend for them. Can you imagine how easy he has made recruitment for them?

Not to mention that his strategic prowess seems to be limited to keeping the Mongols out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 03, 2016, 11:51:17 PM
Supposing you had to choose one person in the pic of the Trump rally as a democratic spy....who would it be?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 04, 2016, 12:09:43 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 03, 2016, 11:51:17 PM
Supposing you had to choose one person in the pic of the Trump rally as a democratic spy....who would it be?

Stew would say it is Trump himself.

I'd say it is the large Pepsi near the front. Surely all Trump supporters wold be coke-heads?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2016, 12:53:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 04, 2016, 12:09:43 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 03, 2016, 11:51:17 PM
Supposing you had to choose one person in the pic of the Trump rally as a democratic spy....who would it be?

Stew would say it is Trump himself.

I'd say it is the large Pepsi near the front. Surely all Trump supporters wold be coke-heads?

Well...maybe, if the m.o. is to disguise oneself thoroughly.  I'm thinking the girl in the glasses behind the guy in the United shirt is clearly a democratic operative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: rrhf on November 04, 2016, 12:57:38 AM
It's sad to watch if you have any care for USA. Trumps brutal fight will win the day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on November 04, 2016, 01:32:31 AM
Quote from: rrhf on November 04, 2016, 12:57:38 AM
It's sad to watch if you have any care for USA. Trumps brutal fight will win the day.

The USA? This has global implications as well. Trump (surrounded by hawks) and Putin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 04, 2016, 02:23:21 AM
A colleague is about to vote Democrat for the first time in his life. (he's 55). He said this is the article that made him feel like he was justified in doing so:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/dont-gamble-on-trump/506207/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2016, 06:11:37 AM
The financial system is 350% of US GDP. You can't have happy bluecollar  voters with a financial sector that size. Because such a big financial system needs to eat. All of the chronic problems in the US - healthcare 18% of gdp, prisons 7%, guns, income inequality, low productivity, stagnant wages, police violence, citizens united; corruption,  the war machine, treatment of vets - they are all related to the financial sector and its needs. Don't blame the people. They had no say in anything. The Fed will not be able to raise interest rates cos the financial industry is too big and it size means it won't give payrises. It is a parasite. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2016, 06:54:43 AM
Quote from: rrhf on November 04, 2016, 12:57:38 AM
It's sad to watch if you have any care for USA. Trumps brutal fight will win the day.
Sentimental p#ssy will destroy him . He would have got away with it if it wasn't for theose pesky bitches . Republican women will be the executioners.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: rrhf on November 04, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
What does that mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 04, 2016, 09:47:48 AM
Some may find this interesting.

http://ahtribune.com/us/2016-election/1312-hillary-clinton-blitzkrieg.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 04, 2016, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 04, 2016, 09:47:48 AM
Some may find this interesting.

http://ahtribune.com/us/2016-election/1312-hillary-clinton-blitzkrieg.html

There is a lot of wisdom in that article.

The problem is going cold turkey, like removing Saddam with considering the consequences, or Gadaffi, or Assad etc., etc., etc.

Trump is worse than cold turkey. That certainly is not the solution.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2016, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: rrhf on November 04, 2016, 12:57:38 AM
It's sad to watch if you have any care for USA. Trumps brutal fight will win the day.

Not sad... terrifying!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
And it's looking like Comey moved because a group of pro-Trump  FBI agents starting leaking stuff to the press and basing their investigation on the Clinton Cash book... which happens to have been written by a Breitbart writer... who works for Trump's campaign chairman.

Throw in the open talk of not filling the Supreme Court or ANY judicial vacancy, in direct defiance of the will of the voters, and in direct contradiction of their bullshit excuses last spring, along with the in-advance threats of impeachment...

Can you imagine the uproar if the Dems were doing this?

What's going to happen if Trump gets real, actual power?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2016, 12:47:18 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 03, 2016, 04:15:24 PM
These kinda sum up my thoughts on the election looking at it from the outside

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14632936_1293732957386422_186559000546941834_n.png?oh=929f9ae2645810686ae5db0ee489d103&oe=58992603)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14910301_10154101767396275_6736412477748040744_n.jpg?oh=6ad33d8bbbf30ff74a171e0ef364ff86&oe=58CF299E)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14937366_1294008194025565_8831050025392205711_n.jpg?oh=a1dd3b21ef75288f76036f76c8414330&oe=58D1006C)

But this photo by Nate Gowdy, of a Trump rally in Loveland, CO, on Oct. 3rd, 2016 is stunning -  Without a single letter of copy, it tells an entire story

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14717094_10154444792991210_6168263340679404203_n.jpg?oh=c71b841a0108875ec5cb15cad57c8258&oe=5891B9D7)

So that picture of the Trump Rally....what story does it tell.....I'm curious
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2016, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
And it's looking like Comey moved because a group of pro-Trump  FBI agents starting leaking stuff to the press and basing their investigation on the Clinton Cash book... which happens to have been written by a Breitbart writer... who works for Trump's campaign chairman.

Throw in the open talk of not filling the Supreme Court or ANY judicial vacancy, in direct defiance of the will of the voters, and in direct contradiction of their bullshit excuses last spring, along with the in-advance threats of impeachment...

Can you imagine the uproar if the Dems were doing this?

What's going to happen if Trump gets real, actual power?

Loretta Lynch met with Bill Clinton in private e and completely compromised the email investigation

Senior DOJ official was emailing Podesta from a personal email to give him a "heads up "

Spare me the faux outrage about that he FBI please

Only way you fight fire is with fire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hectic on November 04, 2016, 01:08:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: rrhf on November 04, 2016, 12:57:38 AM
It's sad to watch if you have any care for USA. Trumps brutal fight will win the day.

Not sad... terrifying!

The only thing positive that I could say about Clinton is that she is not Trump.  In a country of approx. 300m people it is pretty poor that these are the two options they can come up with for their people to vote for president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 04, 2016, 01:12:30 PM
Quote from: Hectic on November 04, 2016, 01:08:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: rrhf on November 04, 2016, 12:57:38 AM
It's sad to watch if you have any care for USA. Trumps brutal fight will win the day.

Not sad... terrifying!

The only thing positive that I could say about Clinton is that she is not Trump.  In a country of approx. 300m people it is pretty poor that these are the two options they can come up with for their people to vote for president.

That's what I think is the saddest thing. On the one hand you have an immature, sexist, racist, bully, who seems to have serious issues with tax returns and transparency. On the other you have what looks like a corrupt weasel, leveraging her Clinton pedigree into the ultimate power position, where she will do God knows what to benefit herself.

How can you vote for either, except to try and avoid the other getting in. It truly is Hobson's choice. The only reason, and I mean ONLY reason, I think I hope Clinton wins is that she is probably less likely to cut the US off from the rest of the world, and less likely to go war mongering than the other bollox. And yes, I meant to say 'other'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2016, 01:52:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2016, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
And it's looking like Comey moved because a group of pro-Trump  FBI agents starting leaking stuff to the press and basing their investigation on the Clinton Cash book... which happens to have been written by a Breitbart writer... who works for Trump's campaign chairman.

Throw in the open talk of not filling the Supreme Court or ANY judicial vacancy, in direct defiance of the will of the voters, and in direct contradiction of their bullshit excuses last spring, along with the in-advance threats of impeachment...

Can you imagine the uproar if the Dems were doing this?

What's going to happen if Trump gets real, actual power?

Loretta Lynch met with Bill Clinton in private e and completely compromised the email investigation

Senior DOJ official was emailing Podesta from a personal email to give him a "heads up "

Spare me the faux outrage about that he FBI please

Only way you fight fire is with fire

And Lynch had to recuse herself from the email issue last summer as a result of her colossal stupidity, whether innocent or not. If her influence is so great, why did Comey disregard her this latest time?

As for Podesta, what was the email about? It was about a House hearing later that same day. Neither it nor the topics likely up for discussion were secret info. Where's the "benefit" to the Clinton campaign?

But if you think government career employees getting political by trying to damage a campaign a few days before an election is equivalent, fair enough.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 04, 2016, 02:06:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
And it's looking like Comey moved because a group of pro-Trump  FBI agents starting leaking stuff to the press and basing their investigation on the Clinton Cash book... which happens to have been written by a Breitbart writer... who works for Trump's campaign chairman.

Throw in the open talk of not filling the Supreme Court or ANY judicial vacancy, in direct defiance of the will of the voters, and in direct contradiction of their bullshit excuses last spring, along with the in-advance threats of impeachment...

Can you imagine the uproar if the Dems were doing this?

What's going to happen if Trump gets real, actual power?

The dems are rotten to the core, just look at the shit they have pulled during this election, Clinton is as despicable as Trump is deplorable!

There are no winners here, everybody loses, I would rather the pres stayed in office that have either left he two maggots running the show and he is God awful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 04, 2016, 02:30:36 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2016, 01:12:30 PM
Quote from: Hectic on November 04, 2016, 01:08:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: rrhf on November 04, 2016, 12:57:38 AM
It's sad to watch if you have any care for USA. Trumps brutal fight will win the day.

Not sad... terrifying!

The only thing positive that I could say about Clinton is that she is not Trump.  In a country of approx. 300m people it is pretty poor that these are the two options they can come up with for their people to vote for president.

That's what I think is the saddest thing. On the one hand you have an immature, sexist, racist, bully, who seems to have serious issues with tax returns and transparency. On the other you have what looks like a corrupt weasel, leveraging her Clinton pedigree into the ultimate power position, where she will do God knows what to benefit herself.

How can you vote for either, except to try and avoid the other getting in. It truly is Hobson's choice. The only reason, and I mean ONLY reason, I think I hope Clinton wins is that she is probably less likely to cut the US off from the rest of the world, and less likely to go war mongering than the other bollox. And yes, I meant to say 'other'.
Why do you believe this to be the case?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 04, 2016, 02:33:59 PM
Because I think Trump is the sort of loola to go picking a fight with someone he feels he doesn't like. Clinton is common or garden US foreign policy war hawk.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2016, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2016, 02:06:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
And it's looking like Comey moved because a group of pro-Trump  FBI agents starting leaking stuff to the press and basing their investigation on the Clinton Cash book... which happens to have been written by a Breitbart writer... who works for Trump's campaign chairman.

Throw in the open talk of not filling the Supreme Court or ANY judicial vacancy, in direct defiance of the will of the voters, and in direct contradiction of their bullshit excuses last spring, along with the in-advance threats of impeachment...

Can you imagine the uproar if the Dems were doing this?

What's going to happen if Trump gets real, actual power?

The dems are rotten to the core, just look at the shit they have pulled during this election, Clinton is as despicable as Trump is deplorable!

There are no winners here, everybody loses, I would rather the pres stayed in office that have either left he two maggots running the show and he is God awful.

I agree with a lot of that.

The country WILL lose, no matter what.

I guess we all differ on which choice costs more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 04, 2016, 02:45:23 PM
At this point you'd nearly hope there is some get-out mechanism in the constitution that would stop the election and make the parties go back and do it right this time!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 04, 2016, 03:08:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2016, 12:47:18 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 03, 2016, 04:15:24 PM
These kinda sum up my thoughts on the election looking at it from the outside

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14632936_1293732957386422_186559000546941834_n.png?oh=929f9ae2645810686ae5db0ee489d103&oe=58992603)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14910301_10154101767396275_6736412477748040744_n.jpg?oh=6ad33d8bbbf30ff74a171e0ef364ff86&oe=58CF299E)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14937366_1294008194025565_8831050025392205711_n.jpg?oh=a1dd3b21ef75288f76036f76c8414330&oe=58D1006C)

But this photo by Nate Gowdy, of a Trump rally in Loveland, CO, on Oct. 3rd, 2016 is stunning -  Without a single letter of copy, it tells an entire story

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14717094_10154444792991210_6168263340679404203_n.jpg?oh=c71b841a0108875ec5cb15cad57c8258&oe=5891B9D7)

So that picture of the Trump Rally....what story does it tell.....I'm curious

Nazi supporters etc have the right to vote for whomever they want, they are hateful bastards but they should be allowed the same rights as all citizens in the country.

There are plenty of scum voting for Clinton, you know, child molesters, rapists, drug dealers etc, in this election the dems better not try and win the moral high ground, their candidate has no morals and based on who she is running against they collectively blew the shite out of what little high ground left after the last 16 years!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2016, 03:14:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 01:52:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2016, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
And it's looking like Comey moved because a group of pro-Trump  FBI agents starting leaking stuff to the press and basing their investigation on the Clinton Cash book... which happens to have been written by a Breitbart writer... who works for Trump's campaign chairman.

Throw in the open talk of not filling the Supreme Court or ANY judicial vacancy, in direct defiance of the will of the voters, and in direct contradiction of their bullshit excuses last spring, along with the in-advance threats of impeachment...

Can you imagine the uproar if the Dems were doing this?

What's going to happen if Trump gets real, actual power?

Loretta Lynch met with Bill Clinton in private e and completely compromised the email investigation

Senior DOJ official was emailing Podesta from a personal email to give him a "heads up "

Spare me the faux outrage about that he FBI please

Only way you fight fire is with fire

And Lynch had to recuse herself from the email issue last summer as a result of her colossal stupidity, whether innocent or not. If her influence is so great, why did Comey disregard her this latest time?

As for Podesta, what was the email about? It was about a House hearing later that same day. Neither it nor the topics likely up for discussion were secret info. Where's the "benefit" to the Clinton campaign?

But if you think government career employees getting political by trying to damage a campaign a few days before an election is equivalent, fair enough.

J70....do you think that Podesta received just that one email from the DOJ guy?

Do you think that there's possibly more emails that haven't been released?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2016, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2016, 03:14:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 01:52:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2016, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
And it's looking like Comey moved because a group of pro-Trump  FBI agents starting leaking stuff to the press and basing their investigation on the Clinton Cash book... which happens to have been written by a Breitbart writer... who works for Trump's campaign chairman.

Throw in the open talk of not filling the Supreme Court or ANY judicial vacancy, in direct defiance of the will of the voters, and in direct contradiction of their bullshit excuses last spring, along with the in-advance threats of impeachment...

Can you imagine the uproar if the Dems were doing this?

What's going to happen if Trump gets real, actual power?

Loretta Lynch met with Bill Clinton in private e and completely compromised the email investigation

Senior DOJ official was emailing Podesta from a personal email to give him a "heads up "

Spare me the faux outrage about that he FBI please

Only way you fight fire is with fire

And Lynch had to recuse herself from the email issue last summer as a result of her colossal stupidity, whether innocent or not. If her influence is so great, why did Comey disregard her this latest time?

As for Podesta, what was the email about? It was about a House hearing later that same day. Neither it nor the topics likely up for discussion were secret info. Where's the "benefit" to the Clinton campaign?

But if you think government career employees getting political by trying to damage a campaign a few days before an election is equivalent, fair enough.

J70....do you think that Podesta received just that one email from the DOJ guy?

Do you think that there's possibly more emails that haven't been released?

Of course it's possible. In fact I'd say it's probable. Especially as they're friends. And I would imagine it goes on all the time with political appointees on both sides and has always been business as usual.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2016, 03:53:22 PM
So if it was all above board why didn't he email him from his DOJ email account?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2016, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2016, 03:53:22 PM
So if it was all above board why didn't he email him from his DOJ email account?

Friends use their personal account all the time why should he send an email from his DOJ account?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2016, 04:05:04 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2016, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2016, 03:53:22 PM
So if it was all above board why didn't he email him from his DOJ email account?

Friends use their personal account all the time why should he send an email from his DOJ account?

A "Friend" who just happens to be the campaign manager and close confidant of someone under FBI investigation should not be receiving off the grid communications from anyone involved in the inquiry.

It comprimised the integrity of the investigation and this is exactly why the FBI guys are going rogue and taking things into their own hands


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2016, 04:13:53 PM
I thought it was a House hearing he told him about?

And I didn't say it was "above board". I said it's probably "business as usual".

Giuliani allegedly saying now that HE knew in advance from HIS connections that the shit was coming from Comey last week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2016, 04:31:59 PM
NYPD start poking around in Wieners laptop....find all sorts of stuff.  FBI Called in and nothing happens. Someone is going to say something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 04:57:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2016, 02:45:23 PM
At this point you'd nearly hope there is some get-out mechanism in the constitution that would stop the election and make the parties go back and do it right this time!

If only Richard Pryor was around...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CufvWM8W8AQyZHi.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 04, 2016, 05:03:05 PM
Richard Pryor as President, I would have voted for the crazy bastard, he loved people and was his own man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 05:25:43 PM
How satisfying was it to watch Donna Brazile get caught out telling lies on TV to Megyn Kelly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oosn_OMsew

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Delighted!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 05:30:00 PM
and as an added bonus of Donna Brazile lost her job on CNN as a political commentator for being caught by Wikileaks.

Same sneaky spindoctor helped get the Worst POTUS ever elected. 8 years too late for her but still nice to see her shown up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 04, 2016, 05:55:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 05:30:00 PM
and as an added bonus of Donna Brazile lost her job on CNN as a political commentator for being caught by Wikileaks.

Same sneaky spindoctor helped get the Worst POTUS ever elected. 8 years too late for her but still nice to see her shown up.

what a useless lying sack of crap the Brazilian is, is there one decent human being among this nest of vipers?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2016, 05:55:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 05:30:00 PM
and as an added bonus of Donna Brazile lost her job on CNN as a political commentator for being caught by Wikileaks.

Same sneaky spindoctor helped get the Worst POTUS ever elected. 8 years too late for her but still nice to see her shown up.

what a useless lying sack of crap the Brazilian is, is there one decent human being among this nest of vipers?

Bernie was the best option for the people. His own crew made sure he wasn't an option.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2016, 06:30:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2016, 05:55:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 05:30:00 PM
and as an added bonus of Donna Brazile lost her job on CNN as a political commentator for being caught by Wikileaks.

Same sneaky spindoctor helped get the Worst POTUS ever elected. 8 years too late for her but still nice to see her shown up.

what a useless lying sack of crap the Brazilian is, is there one decent human being among this nest of vipers?

Bernie was the best option for the people. His own crew made sure he wasn't an option.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3903138/Bernie-needs-ground-pulp-Former-Bill-Clinton-strategist-told-Podesta-target-Sanders-responded-stick-knife-in.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 04, 2016, 06:53:35 PM
Hilary will win this handily and probably end up doing a pretty decent job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 04, 2016, 06:56:51 PM
if you're looking for actual real numbers and maths (or math) take a look at steveschale.com
look at the raw numbers and not the inferences
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2016, 06:57:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2016, 05:55:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2016, 05:30:00 PM
and as an added bonus of Donna Brazile lost her job on CNN as a political commentator for being caught by Wikileaks.

Same sneaky spindoctor helped get the Worst POTUS ever elected. 8 years too late for her but still nice to see her shown up.

what a useless lying sack of crap the Brazilian is, is there one decent human being among this nest of vipers?

Bernie was the best option for the people. His own crew made sure he wasn't an option.

Holy f**k... I agree with you!! ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2016, 07:09:49 PM
Has anyone considered the fact that we will be going through all this shite again in a couple of years?

One of these geniuses will be seeking reelection.  :o ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 04, 2016, 07:29:27 PM
Not a great day for the head of Donald's Whitehouse transition team

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/nyregion/bridgegate-conviction.html?&hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

A real case, with real charges and a guilty verdict. Of course the fat controller knew nothing...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2016, 10:28:47 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 04, 2016, 07:29:27 PM
Not a great day for the head of Donald's Whitehouse transition team

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/nyregion/bridgegate-conviction.html?&hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

A real case, with real charges and a guilty verdict. Of course the fat controller knew nothing...

Was it not Christie with the cries of "guilty or not guilty?!" At the RNC?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on November 06, 2016, 02:41:53 AM
Pretty sad that Judge Gwin in Ohio (he who swore me in as a US citizen) had to direct a presidential candidate not to breach the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871 which prohibited the intimidation of voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 06, 2016, 09:08:22 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 04, 2016, 06:53:35 PM
Hilary will win this handily and probably end up doing a pretty decent job.


She will win it handily and she will do an awful job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 06, 2016, 12:14:01 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 02, 2016, 11:03:31 AM
Betfair:
Clinton 1.4
Trump 3.6

Today:
Clinton 1.27
Trump 4.7
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:22:59 PM
Nothing in the emails (again) http://bbc.in/2fRoXOm
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:29:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:22:59 PM
Nothing in the emails (again) http://bbc.in/2fRoXOm

But they did find out that Hillarys maid was allowed to print fax and read classified documents-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:51:33 PM
Timescale? Taken down by whom?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 06, 2016, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2016, 12:14:01 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 02, 2016, 11:03:31 AM
Betfair:
Clinton 1.4
Trump 3.6

Today:
Clinton 1.27
Trump 4.7

Now, post the email nonsense:
Clinton 1.2
Trump 5.9
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 10:24:39 PM
I remember checking odds checker the night of the Brexit Referendum - as I went to bed, again shortly after the Sunderland vote came in and again about 3am.  I get that same sinking feeling with this election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 06, 2016, 10:37:46 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2016, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2016, 12:14:01 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 02, 2016, 11:03:31 AM
Betfair:
Clinton 1.4
Trump 3.6

Today:
Clinton 1.27
Trump 4.7

Now, post the email nonsense:
Clinton 1.2
Trump 5.9

Hardy, have you been inspiried by dirici?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on November 06, 2016, 11:11:04 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 10:24:39 PM
I remember checking odds checker the night of the Brexit Referendum - as I went to bed, again shortly after the Sunderland vote came in and again about 3am.  I get that same sinking feeling with this election.

Me too.

I've also stopped recycling and now just tip my rubbish into the nearest flower bed or children's play park. I mean lately no-one else seems to give a f**k about the future of the planet so why the fcuk should I.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on November 06, 2016, 11:13:32 PM
I've read some amount of shite over the last 48hrs about the election, (primarily what is supposedly in the recent wikileaks documents) even then everyone has their own spin on it. If Hilary stabbed someone, they'd say he fell on her knife (and vice versa). I've given up following it at this stage, whatever will be will be.

My only recommendation at this point is that the right and left at this stage should spilt off into separate countries. Otherwise you'll never get the country you want. Time to stop standing each others way and getting all annoyed about it.

Call them NEWSA-Rght and NEWSA-Left or AngryWhiteMan-istan and Pinkoleftytellytubbyland.

In Europe we'll have NouveauFrance-Droit avec NouveauFrance-Gauche.
Ireland can have Gombeen-topia and Gobshite-topia.
Part of Germany will form New Syria under mother Merkel.
Hungary and Poland probably remain unchanged.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on November 06, 2016, 11:37:53 PM

Surely Comey has to resign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 06, 2016, 11:37:53 PM

Surely Comey has to resign.

Funny thing is he has a 10 year appointment.....and hes 3 years into his term.  I dont think Hillary could get rid of him even if she wanted to.

Id say the Dems will tread very lightly......who knows what dirt he has on Lynch and some others in the DOJ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on November 07, 2016, 12:02:46 AM

Comey stinks to high heaven right now. An obvious ploy to influence the election. How can that be tolerated?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2016, 12:10:17 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 07, 2016, 12:02:46 AM

Comey stinks to high heaven right now. An obvious ploy to influence the election. How can that be tolerated?

He really had no choice.....if Hillary had won and this came out after the fact I shudder to think what would have happened. 

Word on the street was that NYPD were going to leak it out if he didnt go public.  NYPD Hate Mayor  DeBlasio, whos one of Hillarys biggest supporters

Add in the fact that the DOJ tried to talk him out of going public, the "heads up email" to Podesta  and Loretta Lynchs tarmac meeting with Bill Clinton...


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on November 07, 2016, 12:35:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2016, 12:10:17 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 07, 2016, 12:02:46 AM

Comey stinks to high heaven right now. An obvious ploy to influence the election. How can that be tolerated?

He really had no choice.....if Hillary had won and this came out after the fact I shudder to think what would have happened. 

Word on the street was that NYPD were going to leak it out if he didnt go public.  NYPD Hate Mayor  DeBlasio, whos one of Hillarys biggest supporters

Add in the fact that the DOJ tried to talk him out of going public, the "heads up email" to Podesta  and Loretta Lynchs tarmac meeting with Bill Clinton...

That makes it even worse. If Hillary had won there was nothing to come out anyway. This ruse has probably influenced voters who voted early over the last week. That can't be undone now. Sinister and scary that can happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on November 07, 2016, 01:01:28 AM
What are you talking about Whitey about the NYpd leaking info about the e-mails.They have nothing to do with the investigation.Get out of the Fox news echo chamber while you can.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2016, 01:47:11 AM
Quote from: maigheo on November 07, 2016, 01:01:28 AM
What are you talking about Whitey about the NYpd leaking info about the e-mails.They have nothing to do with the investigation.Get out of the Fox news echo chamber while you can.
[/quote


Wiener investigation started with the NYPD Special Victims Unit....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2016, 06:28:33 AM
Quote from: thejuice on November 06, 2016, 11:13:32 PM
I've read some amount of shite over the last 48hrs about the election, (primarily what is supposedly in the recent wikileaks documents) even then everyone has their own spin on it. If Hilary stabbed someone, they'd say he fell on her knife (and vice versa). I've given up following it at this stage, whatever will be will be.

My only recommendation at this point is that the right and left at this stage should spilt off into separate countries. Otherwise you'll never get the country you want. Time to stop standing each others way and getting all annoyed about it.

Call them NEWSA-Rght and NEWSA-Left or AngryWhiteMan-istan and Pinkoleftytellytubbyland.

In Europe we'll have NouveauFrance-Droit avec NouveauFrance-Gauche.
Ireland can have Gombeen-topia and Gobshite-topia.
Part of Germany will form New Syria under mother Merkel.
Hungary and Poland probably remain unchanged.
It's the economics that are driving the chaos. A lot of people have lost faith in the system. Clinton voters insist everything is fine. It's going to be trina cheile until we get a new system
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2016, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2016, 12:10:17 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 07, 2016, 12:02:46 AM

Comey stinks to high heaven right now. An obvious ploy to influence the election. How can that be tolerated?

He really had no choice.....if Hillary had won and this came out after the fact I shudder to think what would have happened. 

Word on the street was that NYPD were going to leak it out if he didnt go public.  NYPD Hate Mayor  DeBlasio, whos one of Hillarys biggest supporters

Add in the fact that the DOJ tried to talk him out of going public, the "heads up email" to Podesta  and Loretta Lynchs tarmac meeting with Bill Clinton...

Move along Hannity nothing to see here... sorry I mean whitey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 07, 2016, 11:24:27 AM
A very good debate here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTV6Hr9RMQM) about the fascist nature of the Trump movement (starts after the interview with the president). Even a neocon (David Frum) makes some very good points about the institutions of state being the bulwark against demagoguery and also about where the Republicans find themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 07, 2016, 11:55:51 AM
What's going on in the media when this (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/9-days-after-roiling-campaign-fbi-says-it-wont-seek-charges-against-clinton/2016/11/06/6f0f5d5c-a468-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-banner-main_campaign-906pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory) is the story and not this (http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-russia-hillary-clinton-united-states-europe-516895?rm=eu)?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 07, 2016, 12:22:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2016, 11:55:51 AM
What's going on in the media when this (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/9-days-after-roiling-campaign-fbi-says-it-wont-seek-charges-against-clinton/2016/11/06/6f0f5d5c-a468-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-banner-main_campaign-906pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory) is the story and not this (http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-russia-hillary-clinton-united-states-europe-516895?rm=eu)?

I really have lost all respect for the United States, this election has been an absolute disgrace and vermin will be living in the white house no matter the Victor.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on November 07, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend

Unfortunately this is the most likely case, which will not benefit anybody long-term.
I have lived her for a long time and I have never seen people (both sides) as angry as right now.
It is toxic and most likely will not be resolved in a week or a month.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 07, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend

Unfortunately this is the most likely case, which will not benefit anybody long-term.
I have lived her for a long time and I have never seen people (both sides) as angry as right now.
It is toxic and most likely will not be resolved in a week or a month.

Trump will be quickly assigned to a warning footnote in history, his capacity to stir uneducated people up will be removed.

For me a lot more anger after the Florida machine gave Bush the narrow victory and then the Republicans who claim to be great supporters of the military decided Kerry's purple heart/s were fake a few years later. Iraq war on fake intel made some people a tiny bit angry as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2016, 06:04:37 PM
The Republican Party is all over the shop. The blue collar voters will not listen to the leadership. Ryan is useless.
Gingrich is pathetic. Giuliani is a joke.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 07, 2016, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 07, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend

Unfortunately this is the most likely case, which will not benefit anybody long-term.
I have lived her for a long time and I have never seen people (both sides) as angry as right now.
It is toxic and most likely will not be resolved in a week or a month.

Trump will be quickly assigned to a warning footnote in history, his capacity to stir uneducated people up will be removed.

For me a lot more anger after the Florida machine gave Bush the narrow victory and then the Republicans who claim to be great supporters of the military decided Kerry's purple heart/s were fake a few years later. Iraq war on fake intel made some people a tiny bit angry as well.
The people need to be stirred up you bollocks!
Clinton has 30 years of warmongering, padding her bank account and putting tens of thousands of Americans at risk all over the globe.
The republicans are not ignorant, they know better than you what lies ahead under this bastards birch, the middle class is being eroded by Obama and Clinton, it really is ignorant for you to call Trump supporters uneducated, you know nothing!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2016, 08:39:54 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2016, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 07, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend

Unfortunately this is the most likely case, which will not benefit anybody long-term.
I have lived her for a long time and I have never seen people (both sides) as angry as right now.
It is toxic and most likely will not be resolved in a week or a month.

Trump will be quickly assigned to a warning footnote in history, his capacity to stir uneducated people up will be removed.

For me a lot more anger after the Florida machine gave Bush the narrow victory and then the Republicans who claim to be great supporters of the military decided Kerry's purple heart/s were fake a few years later. Iraq war on fake intel made some people a tiny bit angry as well.
The people need to be stirred up you bollocks!
Clinton has 30 years of warmongering, padding her bank account and putting tens of thousands of Americans at risk all over the globe.
The republicans are not ignorant, they know better than you what lies ahead under this b**tards birch, the middle class is being eroded by Obama and Clinton, it really is ignorant for you to call Trump supporters uneducated, you know nothing!

He's bang on... You're so far to the right you can't see it. Republicans have proven themselves weak and ignorant letting that orange wigged tyrant get their nomination... Good enough for them a bunch of idiots who believe anything Breitbart or Fox news produce!

They deserve all they get!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 07, 2016, 10:40:43 PM
The outrage industry.

Fox News created it for the GOP.

No balance, no context, no perspective. Just zero to complete outrage in 60 milliseconds, on everything. It doesn't require any thought, insight, brain or even sobriety. To outrage junkies, shouting means checkmate. That fact that no one else sees this as even sane, is lost on them.

It has just blown up completely, because it got hi-jacked by a reality TV spoofer who is made for The Outrage Industry. And little else. And he could actually win.

Now that would be outrageous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2016, 11:05:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2016, 10:40:43 PM
The outrage industry.

Fox News created it for the GOP.

No balance, no context, no perspective. Just zero to complete outrage in 60 milliseconds, on everything. It doesn't require any thought, insight, brain or even sobriety. To outrage junkies, shouting means checkmate. That fact that no one else sees this as even sane, is lost on them.

It has just blown up completely, because it got hi-jacked by a reality TV spoofer who is made for The Outrage Industry. And little else. And he could actually win.

Now that would be outrageous.

People have plenty of legitimate reasons to be outraged by the shenanigans of the Democratic Party, The Clintons and the Main Stream Media this election cycle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 07, 2016, 11:30:28 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwsHDfZWEAA9fzJ.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2016, 11:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2016, 11:05:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2016, 10:40:43 PM
The outrage industry.

Fox News created it for the GOP.

No balance, no context, no perspective. Just zero to complete outrage in 60 milliseconds, on everything. It doesn't require any thought, insight, brain or even sobriety. To outrage junkies, shouting means checkmate. That fact that no one else sees this as even sane, is lost on them.

It has just blown up completely, because it got hi-jacked by a reality TV spoofer who is made for The Outrage Industry. And little else. And he could actually win.

Now that would be outrageous.

People have plenty of legitimate reasons to be outraged by the shenanigans of the Democratic Party, The Clintons and the Main Stream Media this election cycle.

Of course they do... They have no legitimate reason for Trump!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 11:55:07 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2016, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 07, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend

Unfortunately this is the most likely case, which will not benefit anybody long-term.
I have lived her for a long time and I have never seen people (both sides) as angry as right now.
It is toxic and most likely will not be resolved in a week or a month.

Trump will be quickly assigned to a warning footnote in history, his capacity to stir uneducated people up will be removed.

For me a lot more anger after the Florida machine gave Bush the narrow victory and then the Republicans who claim to be great supporters of the military decided Kerry's purple heart/s were fake a few years later. Iraq war on fake intel made some people a tiny bit angry as well.
The people need to be stirred up you bollocks!
Clinton has 30 years of warmongering, padding her bank account and putting tens of thousands of Americans at risk all over the globe.
The republicans are not ignorant, they know better than you what lies ahead under this b**tards birch, the middle class is being eroded by Obama and Clinton, it really is ignorant for you to call Trump supporters uneducated, you know nothing!

What warmongering was Hilary doing 30 years ago while first lady of Arkansas? Was there a border dispute along the Ozarks with Oklahoma that I missed hearing about?

Sorry but Republicans are ignorant, racist, uneducated and uninformed - some I assume are good people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 12:09:17 AM
Paul Krugman ‏@paulkrugman  57s57 seconds ago
Remember when right-wingers used to claim that the stock market was the ultimate verdict on a president? The market is voting HRC, bigly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 12:24:32 AM
The outrage industry:

http://www.infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a82JbTWCes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a82JbTWCes)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2016, 09:44:34 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 11:55:07 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2016, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 07, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend

Unfortunately this is the most likely case, which will not benefit anybody long-term.
I have lived her for a long time and I have never seen people (both sides) as angry as right now.
It is toxic and most likely will not be resolved in a week or a month.

Trump will be quickly assigned to a warning footnote in history, his capacity to stir uneducated people up will be removed.

For me a lot more anger after the Florida machine gave Bush the narrow victory and then the Republicans who claim to be great supporters of the military decided Kerry's purple heart/s were fake a few years later. Iraq war on fake intel made some people a tiny bit angry as well.
The people need to be stirred up you bollocks!
Clinton has 30 years of warmongering, padding her bank account and putting tens of thousands of Americans at risk all over the globe.
The republicans are not ignorant, they know better than you what lies ahead under this b**tards birch, the middle class is being eroded by Obama and Clinton, it really is ignorant for you to call Trump supporters uneducated, you know nothing!

What warmongering was Hilary doing 30 years ago while first lady of Arkansas? Was there a border dispute along the Ozarks with Oklahoma that I missed hearing about?

Sorry but Republicans are ignorant, racist, uneducated and uninformed - some I assume are good people.

Very good!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2016, 08:39:54 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2016, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 07, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend

Unfortunately this is the most likely case, which will not benefit anybody long-term.
I have lived her for a long time and I have never seen people (both sides) as angry as right now.
It is toxic and most likely will not be resolved in a week or a month.

Trump will be quickly assigned to a warning footnote in history, his capacity to stir uneducated people up will be removed.

For me a lot more anger after the Florida machine gave Bush the narrow victory and then the Republicans who claim to be great supporters of the military decided Kerry's purple heart/s were fake a few years later. Iraq war on fake intel made some people a tiny bit angry as well.
The people need to be stirred up you bollocks!
Clinton has 30 years of warmongering, padding her bank account and putting tens of thousands of Americans at risk all over the globe.
The republicans are not ignorant, they know better than you what lies ahead under this b**tards birch, the middle class is being eroded by Obama and Clinton, it really is ignorant for you to call Trump supporters uneducated, you know nothing!

He's bang on... You're so far to the right you can't see it. Republicans have proven themselves weak and ignorant letting that orange wigged tyrant get their nomination... Good enough for them a bunch of idiots who believe anything Breitbart or Fox news produce!

They deserve all they get!

You lazy ignoramus!

I am far from far right you tube, I no longer watch American news because it is corrupt, you lazy git, you are so unedudicated you think all republicans watch fox news and only fox news, I would say most republicans that do watch fox news do so because it is the only conservative tv medium they have, I also would say most would watch the other news channels too, not a one of them is worth a minute of my time, they are bought and paid for.

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two bastards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:47:33 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2016, 08:39:54 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2016, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 07, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend

Unfortunately this is the most likely case, which will not benefit anybody long-term.
I have lived her for a long time and I have never seen people (both sides) as angry as right now.
It is toxic and most likely will not be resolved in a week or a month.

Trump will be quickly assigned to a warning footnote in history, his capacity to stir uneducated people up will be removed.

For me a lot more anger after the Florida machine gave Bush the narrow victory and then the Republicans who claim to be great supporters of the military decided Kerry's purple heart/s were fake a few years later. Iraq war on fake intel made some people a tiny bit angry as well.
The people need to be stirred up you bollocks!
Clinton has 30 years of warmongering, padding her bank account and putting tens of thousands of Americans at risk all over the globe.
The republicans are not ignorant, they know better than you what lies ahead under this b**tards birch, the middle class is being eroded by Obama and Clinton, it really is ignorant for you to call Trump supporters uneducated, you know nothing!

He's bang on... You're so far to the right you can't see it. Republicans have proven themselves weak and ignorant letting that orange wigged tyrant get their nomination... Good enough for them a bunch of idiots who believe anything Breitbart or Fox news produce!

They deserve all they get!

You lazy ignoramus!

I am far from far right you tube, I no longer watch American news because it is corrupt, you lazy git, you are so unedudicated you think all republicans watch fox news and only fox news, I would say most republicans that do watch fox news do so because it is the only conservative tv medium they have, I also would say most would watch the other news channels too, not a one of them is worth a minute of my time, they are bought and paid for.

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

CNN had to fire one of its political commentators this week for leaking information to a presidential candidate. She got this info from a presenter on another news channel. Both are big fans of the Kenyan lad and were endorsing him to the public via this impartial* tv station. It's 24 hours a day propaganda on CNN. The fired political commentator played the race card at every turn, as do some of the anchors. It's one way to use PC to try beat people into voting for your nomination and make them out to be rednecks if they stick with the republicans.

It's always convenient that the likes of CNN will report on trouble at Trump rallies with a certain slant. They missed the obvious setups.

The democrats :O would like fox news to go as it's the only station that isn't rooting for their demonic candidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

obamas job was destroy middle class America. Hillary will continue it. they need more uneducated or cheap labour, not college educated kids from decent families.

Instead promote the rise of broken families. There's money to be made there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

obamas job was destroy middle class America. Hillary will continue it. they need more uneducated or cheap labour, not college educated kids from decent families.

Instead promote the rise of broken families. There's money to be made there.

So that's why Hillary is campaigning on free college tuition for lower and middle income families!

Or do these not fall under the umbrella of "decent families"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2016, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2016, 08:39:54 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2016, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 07, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 07, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Hillary is going down.....remember, you heard it here first
How's this coming along tho?

With the $hit that's come out since I wrote that, I'd be willing to double down on that statement

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/fbi-clinton-emails-cleared-1.3839154

You're struggling big lad!!!

Maid printing classified materials, Foundation hiding $1M in donations from Qatar after
State Dept  drifted they were funding ISIS, Chelsea using Foundation money for her wedding

Were barely through the first inning here my friend

Unfortunately this is the most likely case, which will not benefit anybody long-term.
I have lived her for a long time and I have never seen people (both sides) as angry as right now.
It is toxic and most likely will not be resolved in a week or a month.

Trump will be quickly assigned to a warning footnote in history, his capacity to stir uneducated people up will be removed.

For me a lot more anger after the Florida machine gave Bush the narrow victory and then the Republicans who claim to be great supporters of the military decided Kerry's purple heart/s were fake a few years later. Iraq war on fake intel made some people a tiny bit angry as well.
The people need to be stirred up you bollocks!
Clinton has 30 years of warmongering, padding her bank account and putting tens of thousands of Americans at risk all over the globe.
The republicans are not ignorant, they know better than you what lies ahead under this b**tards birch, the middle class is being eroded by Obama and Clinton, it really is ignorant for you to call Trump supporters uneducated, you know nothing!

He's bang on... You're so far to the right you can't see it. Republicans have proven themselves weak and ignorant letting that orange wigged tyrant get their nomination... Good enough for them a bunch of idiots who believe anything Breitbart or Fox news produce!

They deserve all they get!

You lazy ignoramus!

I am far from far right you tube, I no longer watch American news because it is corrupt, you lazy git, you are so unedudicated you think all republicans watch fox news and only fox news, I would say most republicans that do watch fox news do so because it is the only conservative tv medium they have, I also would say most would watch the other news channels too, not a one of them is worth a minute of my time, they are bought and paid for.

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

I think you mean bigly unedudicated!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

obamas job was destroy middle class America. Hillary will continue it. they need more uneducated or cheap labour, not college educated kids from decent families.

Instead promote the rise of broken families. There's money to be made there.

So that's why Hillary is campaigning on free college tuition for lower and middle income families!

Or do these not fall under the umbrella of "decent families"?

yeah right. she will say anything to get elected

(http://66.media.tumblr.com/ad0f78b0f7d5a00ff7c59599ab62f919/tumblr_og8whvLyiT1sqvh1xo1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

obamas job was destroy middle class America. Hillary will continue it. they need more uneducated or cheap labour, not college educated kids from decent families.

Instead promote the rise of broken families. There's money to be made there.

So that's why Hillary is campaigning on free college tuition for lower and middle income families!

Or do these not fall under the umbrella of "decent families"?

yeah right. she will say anything to get elected


Ok, let's assume for the sake of argument that she is cynically pandering.

So tell us how Trump and the GOP will get more children of "decent families" through college.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 04:18:00 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

you know why. if not do some research.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

obamas job was destroy middle class America. Hillary will continue it. they need more uneducated or cheap labour, not college educated kids from decent families.

Instead promote the rise of broken families. There's money to be made there.

So that's why Hillary is campaigning on free college tuition for lower and middle income families!

Or do these not fall under the umbrella of "decent families"?

yeah right. she will say anything to get elected


Ok, let's assume for the sake of argument that she is cynically pandering.

So tell us how Trump and the GOP will get more children of "decent families" through college.

Clinton will continue the current policies. trump cant be any worse given its a 2 horse race.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:26:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 04:18:00 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

you know why. if not do some research.
Research on why an anonymous poster on a GAA discussion board calls the President of the USA a Kenyan? Could you point in the right direction? Or better still, just answer the question. Three times now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

obamas job was destroy middle class America. Hillary will continue it. they need more uneducated or cheap labour, not college educated kids from decent families.

Instead promote the rise of broken families. There's money to be made there.

So that's why Hillary is campaigning on free college tuition for lower and middle income families!

Or do these not fall under the umbrella of "decent families"?

yeah right. she will say anything to get elected


Ok, let's assume for the sake of argument that she is cynically pandering.

So tell us how Trump and the GOP will get more children of "decent families" through college.

Clinton will continue the current policies. trump cant be any worse given its a 2 horse race.

So if Trump can't be worse because Clinton would continue the current policies, that means you must have something in mind that he either said he would do or you think he might do. Because if he does nothing, then the status quo remains.

So what is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 08, 2016, 04:40:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

Because he's a troll.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

No need. You already know the answer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:05:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

obamas job was destroy middle class America. Hillary will continue it. they need more uneducated or cheap labour, not college educated kids from decent families.

Instead promote the rise of broken families. There's money to be made there.

So that's why Hillary is campaigning on free college tuition for lower and middle income families!

Or do these not fall under the umbrella of "decent families"?

yeah right. she will say anything to get elected


Ok, let's assume for the sake of argument that she is cynically pandering.

So tell us how Trump and the GOP will get more children of "decent families" through college.

Clinton will continue the current policies. trump cant be any worse given its a 2 horse race.

So if Trump can't be worse because Clinton would continue the current policies, that means you must have something in mind that he either said he would do or you think he might do. Because if he does nothing, then the status quo remains.

So what is it?

He'd clear out illegal immigrants for a start. That's a huge step in the right direction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2016, 07:14:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:05:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

obamas job was destroy middle class America. Hillary will continue it. they need more uneducated or cheap labour, not college educated kids from decent families.

Instead promote the rise of broken families. There's money to be made there.

So that's why Hillary is campaigning on free college tuition for lower and middle income families!

Or do these not fall under the umbrella of "decent families"?

yeah right. she will say anything to get elected


Ok, let's assume for the sake of argument that she is cynically pandering.

So tell us how Trump and the GOP will get more children of "decent families" through college.

Clinton will continue the current policies. trump cant be any worse given its a 2 horse race.

So if Trump can't be worse because Clinton would continue the current policies, that means you must have something in mind that he either said he would do or you think he might do. Because if he does nothing, then the status quo remains.

So what is it?

He'd clear out illegal immigrants for a start. That's a huge step in the right direction.

Kicking 12 million people out of the country (which is not ever going to happen) would be a huge step in making college more affordable?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 07:21:14 PM
Trump's son just broke a New York election law.

Wait for the outrage!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 08, 2016, 07:36:17 PM
Whatever about fox and Obama. Has Clinton won the swing states? If so there's nothing Trump can do really.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

No need. You already know the answer.
You're not replying to my last post. For the fourth time, if you're not a troll, or even if you are, please answer the question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2016, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 07:21:14 PM
Trump's son just broke a New York election law.

Wait for the outrage!

I get the idea that such prohibitions are supposedly a safeguard to protect the secrecy of the ballot and prevent intimidation or coercion, but has anyone ever actually been charged outside of such circumstances?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2016, 08:11:47 PM
Trump is nuts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2OYxFlW0Yg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 08:16:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 07:21:14 PM
Trump's son just broke a New York election law.

Wait for the outrage!

I get the idea that such prohibitions are supposedly a safeguard to protect the secrecy of the ballot and prevent intimidation or coercion, but has anyone ever actually been charged outside of such circumstances?

He will hardly be charged. But it has been officially pointed out on twitter. Then again the lack of perspective during this cycle has been unbelievable, so I suspect Trump might insist he is locked up.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on November 08, 2016, 09:56:58 PM

A friend of mine had 2 Texans out on a tour here last week. Billionaires, own jet and pilot, etc. Voting for Trump. Why? Well, apparently Hillary might force them to get rid of 'some of their guns'. Apparently they have some really high-tech firepower in their arsenal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 08, 2016, 09:58:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 08, 2016, 09:56:58 PM

A friend of mine had 2 Texans out on a tour here last week. Billionaires, own jet and pilot, etc. Voting for Trump. Why? Well, apparently Hillary might force them to get rid of 'some of their guns'. Apparently they have some really high-tech firepower in their arsenal.

A Texan acquaintance of mine was saying similar this morning, it's amazing they have any left after 8 years of Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 08, 2016, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 08, 2016, 07:36:17 PM
Whatever about fox and Obama. Has Clinton won the swing states? If so there's nothing Trump can do really.

Not a whole lot. If you give Trump FL (44.9), NC (44.5), NV(41.7) and NH (30.2) and the states he is >60% favorite in he only has 269 (need 270) He would still need either MI (21.1) or PA (23).

Number in bracket is chance of winning per Nate Silver.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:29:33 PM
Anyone (living in the US or not) get any Red Letter Day emails?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

No need. You already know the answer.
You're not replying to my last post. For the fourth time, if you're not a troll, or even if you are, please answer the question.

Listen doll, this isn't The Hague. We both know the answer to your question so you can quit it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM
Hmmmmm......things looking better for Trump in prelim exit polls than I would have thought
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dferg on November 08, 2016, 10:44:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM
Hmmmmm......things looking better for Trump in prelim exit polls than I would have thought
The bookies don't agree.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:45:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM
Hmmmmm......things looking better for Trump in prelim exit polls than I would have thought

If he becomes President, I bet you $1,000 he doesn't lock her up.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:49:40 PM
Quote from: dferg on November 08, 2016, 10:44:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM
Hmmmmm......things looking better for Trump in prelim exit polls than I would have thought
The bookies don't agree.

Which bookies.....the ones who paid out on a Hillary victory 3 weeks ago?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:51:06 PM
Conan O'Brien ‏@ConanOBrien  6h6 hours ago
Not telling you who to vote for but ask yourself: which candidate will give a more entertaining concession speech?


;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 08, 2016, 10:52:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM
Hmmmmm......things looking better for Trump in prelim exit polls than I would have thought

In Florida "In the preliminary exit polls, 39 percent of voters were people of color. That compares to just 33 percent in 2012."

I think that favors HRC.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Kendall BreitmanVerified account
‏@KendallBreitman
Per MSNBC early exit polls:
Black voters - 87% Clinton, 8% Trump
Hispanic voters - 65% Clinton, 27% Trump

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 08, 2016, 10:57:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2016, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2016, 12:14:01 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 02, 2016, 11:03:31 AM
Betfair:
Clinton 1.4
Trump 3.6

Today:
Clinton 1.27
Trump 4.7

Now, post the email nonsense:
Clinton 1.2
Trump 5.9

Tonight:
Clinton 1.17
Trump 6.6

I'm just beginning to get slightly less scared.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2016, 11:00:16 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 08, 2016, 10:52:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM
Hmmmmm......things looking better for Trump in prelim exit polls than I would have thought

In Florida "In the preliminary exit polls, 39 percent of voters were people of color. That compares to just 33 percent in 2012."

I think that favors HRC.

Where did you see that.....I'm watching MSNBC and they're just using National Exit polls

I thought state specific polls couldn't  be published until the polls closed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 08, 2016, 11:00:29 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 08, 2016, 10:57:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2016, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2016, 12:14:01 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 02, 2016, 11:03:31 AM
Betfair:
Clinton 1.4
Trump 3.6

Today:
Clinton 1.27
Trump 4.7

Now, post the email nonsense:
Clinton 1.2
Trump 5.9

Tonight:
Clinton 1.17
Trump 6.6

I'm just beginning to get slightly less scared.

Didnt the same thing happen with Brexit?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2016, 11:00:51 PM
The Yanks have been neglecting local communities for a while

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb34jE-Uf6k
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 08, 2016, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Kendall BreitmanVerified account
‏@KendallBreitman
Per MSNBC early exit polls:
Black voters - 87% Clinton, 8% Trump
Hispanic voters - 65% Clinton, 27% Trump

Who are the 27% Hispanic voters for Trump??

New Mexico got to have some, Cubans in Florida too I imagine, wheres the rest? Maybe the Puerto Ricans dig the shit hes talking on mexicans?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 11:11:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 08, 2016, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Kendall BreitmanVerified account
‏@KendallBreitman
Per MSNBC early exit polls:
Black voters - 87% Clinton, 8% Trump
Hispanic voters - 65% Clinton, 27% Trump

Who are the 27% Hispanic voters for Trump??

New Mexico got to have some, Cubans in Florida too I imagine, wheres the rest? Maybe the Puerto Ricans dig the shit hes talking on mexicans?

(http://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2008/june/images/race_fig1.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 08, 2016, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 11:11:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 08, 2016, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Kendall BreitmanVerified account
‏@KendallBreitman
Per MSNBC early exit polls:
Black voters - 87% Clinton, 8% Trump
Hispanic voters - 65% Clinton, 27% Trump

Who are the 27% Hispanic voters for Trump??

New Mexico got to have some, Cubans in Florida too I imagine, wheres the rest? Maybe the Puerto Ricans dig the shit hes talking on mexicans?

(http://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2008/june/images/race_fig1.gif)

I wasnt asking where Hispanics live in America I was asking where they are ones who are voting Trump. Its certainly not a uniform demographic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 11:22:21 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 08, 2016, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 11:11:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 08, 2016, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Kendall BreitmanVerified account
‏@KendallBreitman
Per MSNBC early exit polls:
Black voters - 87% Clinton, 8% Trump
Hispanic voters - 65% Clinton, 27% Trump

Who are the 27% Hispanic voters for Trump??

New Mexico got to have some, Cubans in Florida too I imagine, wheres the rest? Maybe the Puerto Ricans dig the shit hes talking on mexicans?

(http://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2008/june/images/race_fig1.gif)

I wasnt asking where Hispanics live in America I was asking where they are ones who are voting Trump. Its certainly not a uniform demographic

If the Sates with little or no Hispanics, have large numbers of Hispanics voting for Trump, then maybe he was right about it being rigged.   :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 11:34:56 PM
i'm hearing rumours of a late entry!

(https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2013/07/213261-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2016, 11:59:11 PM
Whether it's true, I heard that Cubans are mad over the embargo being lifted and they are typically Republican voters, so a high Hispanic turnout in FL could benefit Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:02:03 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 11:59:11 PM
Whether it's true, I heard that Cubans are mad over the embargo being lifted and they are typically Republican voters, so a high Hispanic turnout in FL could benefit Trump

They might love a Democrat Senate!

Very early days obviously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:09:58 AM
So Vlad, what will happen if Donald wins?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/isP4TLqhjm3zq/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:11:22 AM
And Hillary?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/G5zxtfUGLSqFG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:10:29 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/election-us-2016-37899679 (http://www.bbc.com/news/live/election-us-2016-37899679)

BREAKINGUpdate on California shooting
Posted at
0:59
Police in the Californian city of Azusa say that there is an "active ongoing situation" at a house near a polling station involving a "female gunman" who is armed with a semi-automatic rifle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 09, 2016, 01:22:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 11:59:11 PM
Whether it's true, I heard that Cubans are mad over the embargo being lifted and they are typically Republican voters, so a high Hispanic turnout in FL could benefit Trump

That's changed a bit, you're talking the grandchildren of people who left Cuba now and they give less of a shit. Probably turn out lower than their grandparents though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 01:24:12 AM
Florida neck and neck with 60% counted.

Now I'm scared again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 01:31:50 AM
Has the racial profiling and analysis been such a big deal before as it is in this election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:32:23 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 01:24:12 AM
Florida neck and neck with 60% counted.

Now I'm scared again.

Ohio & Michigan have Hillary ahead. If that stays the same Florida could vote for Castro, Escobar AND Trump but she will still win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2016, 01:33:34 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 01:24:12 AM
Florida neck and neck with 60% counted.

Now I'm scared again.

Seriously close, 2000 again!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:47:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 07:14:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:05:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2016, 12:08:20 PM

This is the first time I have not wished a new President all the best, I thought Obama would be a nightmare and so he has been, either of these two b**tards will further destroy the country I loved in for a large portion of my life.

I think Clinton will win by a large margin, it really does not matter, she got what she wanted and the DOJ should shut its doors, there is no justice in the states, the liberals are wrecking the country and I believe Clinton will do her best to further financially and morally wreck the states.

obamas job was destroy middle class America. Hillary will continue it. they need more uneducated or cheap labour, not college educated kids from decent families.

Instead promote the rise of broken families. There's money to be made there.

So that's why Hillary is campaigning on free college tuition for lower and middle income families!

Or do these not fall under the umbrella of "decent families"?

yeah right. she will say anything to get elected


Ok, let's assume for the sake of argument that she is cynically pandering.

So tell us how Trump and the GOP will get more children of "decent families" through college.

Clinton will continue the current policies. trump cant be any worse given its a 2 horse race.

So if Trump can't be worse because Clinton would continue the current policies, that means you must have something in mind that he either said he would do or you think he might do. Because if he does nothing, then the status quo remains.

So what is it?

He'd clear out illegal immigrants for a start. That's a huge step in the right direction.

Kicking 12 million people out of the country (which is not ever going to happen) would be a huge step in making college more affordable?
think of the savings of having those 12 million gone. State schools won't be overstretched. Policing costs will go down. Anti-social behavior will drop.

introduce the death penalty for drug dealers. Would save a bundle.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:48:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:32:23 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 01:24:12 AM
Florida neck and neck with 60% counted.

Now I'm scared again.

Ohio & Michigan have Hillary ahead. If that stays the same Florida could vote for Castro, Escobar AND Trump but she will still win.
It will be polarised and virtually ungovernable even if she does win. It will be very hard to get anything done. Trump brought political discourse down to a new low. The gap between say Bill Maher and a Trump voter in Louisiana is too wide and there is no trust. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 01:53:33 AM
Small bit of tightening in Trump's odds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:58:46 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:48:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:32:23 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 01:24:12 AM
Florida neck and neck with 60% counted.

Now I'm scared again.

Ohio & Michigan have Hillary ahead. If that stays the same Florida could vote for Castro, Escobar AND Trump but she will still win.
It will be polarised and virtually ungovernable even if she does win. It will be very hard to get anything done. Trump brought political discourse down to a new low. The gap between say Bill Maher and a Trump voter in Louisiana is too wide and there is no trust.

Clinton winning in the cities.

Trump doing well in Healy-Rae territory.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 01:53:33 AM
Small bit of tightening in Trump's odds.

Trump odds have now nearly halved in minutes. 30 mins ago it was Clinton 1.11, Trump 9.4. Now 1.22, 5.6.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:05:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwwRy2sUoAAC0n-.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:06:08 AM
It's nip and tuck in Ohio and Pa as well. This is a toss-up at this moment. At best, miles from the Hillary shoo-in that was forecast.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:06:47 AM
Trump 4.2
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 02:07:45 AM
Hopefully Trump can win it..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:08:35 AM
Trump 3.75. Tumbling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on November 09, 2016, 02:08:41 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 01:53:33 AM
Small bit of tightening in Trump's odds.

It's more than that at this stage...

Clinton was as low as 1.08 on Betfair and has drifted to 1.45.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 02:09:42 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:06:47 AM
Trump 4.2

Saw it as low as 2.5 a few mins ago.... back to 3.50
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:12:38 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:06:08 AM
It's nip and tuck in Ohio and Pa as well. This is a toss-up at this moment. At best, miles from the Hillary shoo-in that was forecast.

Edward Luce

‏@EdwardGLuce
This is what we know: America did not comprehensively repudiate Trump. The future doesn't look stable.

Blue collar Americans are sick of the system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:15:32 AM
Trump 2.76 now. Momentum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 09, 2016, 02:15:49 AM
2.4 now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 09, 2016, 02:16:17 AM
All going Trump's way at the moment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:16:54 AM
Lot of very pissed off people.

Any Trump supporters I know told pollsters they were voting for Hillary (3 people)

The polls were skewed intentionally by the main stream media to make it look like a done deal for Hillary.....her supporters were not engaged as they thought it was done
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:20:07 AM
Trump now has strong leads in FL, OH and VA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:21:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.

Maid printing emails
Chelseas wedding paid for by Foundation
650K emails found on wacko Wieners laptop
CNN coordinating directly with Clinton campaign
"Heads up" email from # 2 in DOJ to Podesta

That's just a few to start with
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:21:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:16:54 AM
Lot of very pissed off people.

Any Trump supporters I know told pollsters they were voting for Hillary (3 people)

The polls were skewed intentionally by the main stream media to make it look like a done deal for Hillary.....her supporters were not engaged as they thought it was done

Wait till the world wakes up to a Trump victory!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:22:13 AM
Dow futures down 300.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 02:23:03 AM
I jumped on at 2.50. Best to get something out of it if the unimaginable happens.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:23:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:21:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.

Maid printing emails
Chelseas wedding paid for by Foundation
650K emails found on wacko Wieners laptop
CNN coordinating directly with Clinton campaign
"Heads up" email from # 2 in DOJ to Podesta

That's just a few to start with

;D ;D ;D ;D

It is hard to know if you are being serious.

Maid printing emails!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 09, 2016, 02:23:36 AM
It's like the night of Brexit all over again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: leenie on November 09, 2016, 02:24:12 AM
Definitely getting interesting ...  ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:24:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:21:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:16:54 AM
Lot of very pissed off people.

Any Trump supporters I know told pollsters they were voting for Hillary (3 people)

The polls were skewed intentionally by the main stream media to make it look like a done deal for Hillary.....her supporters were not engaged as they thought it was done

Wait till the world wakes up to a Trump victory!

Like the Brexit vote.....Democracy in action

I'm a conservative and I voted for Bernie, and he got cheated out of the nomination and  Hey parachuted a seriously flawed candidate in through their shenanigans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:26:14 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 08, 2016, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Kendall BreitmanVerified account
‏@KendallBreitman
Per MSNBC early exit polls:
Black voters - 87% Clinton, 8% Trump
Hispanic voters - 65% Clinton, 27% Trump

Who are the 27% Hispanic voters for Trump??

New Mexico got to have some, Cubans in Florida too I imagine, wheres the rest? Maybe the Puerto Ricans dig the shit hes talking on mexicans?
Tony Fearon Latinos
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:27:00 AM
Clinton 1.94
Trump 2.08.

It briefly went the other way a minute ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:27:41 AM
Andrew Shvarts
‏@Shvartacus
This election is like if your friends pick dinner and 3 vote pizza and 2 vote "kill and eat you". Even if pizza wins, there's a big problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:23:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:21:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.

Maid printing emails
Chelseas wedding paid for by Foundation
650K emails found on wacko Wieners laptop
CNN coordinating directly with Clinton campaign
"Heads up" email from # 2 in DOJ to Podesta

That's just a few to start with

;D ;D ;D ;D

It is hard to know if you are being serious.

Maid printing emails!

You must not know too many people in the military if you think that's not a big deal.

My wife's first cousin had high level security clearance and he couldn't even tell his own mother what part of it he world he was in at any point in time

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:30:44 AM
Stevie Wonder on why Trump shouldn't be president: "if you had emergency, had to go to hospital, you wouldn't want me driving, right?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:31:44 AM
Seems it's the urban areas of FL and VA that are still to come. Could swing it back. On the other hand MI is a toss-up now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:32:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:23:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:21:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.

Maid printing emails
Chelseas wedding paid for by Foundation
650K emails found on wacko Wieners laptop
CNN coordinating directly with Clinton campaign
"Heads up" email from # 2 in DOJ to Podesta

That's just a few to start with

;D ;D ;D ;D

It is hard to know if you are being serious.

Maid printing emails!

You must not know too many people in the military if you think that's not a big deal.

My wife's first cousin had high level security clearance and he couldn't even tell his own mother what part of it he world he was in at any point in time

What has a maid printing emails have to do with a military person hiding from his mother?  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on November 09, 2016, 02:39:03 AM

This is mental.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:42:53 AM
Actually its not

It somewhat unexpected but anyone who was engaged knew he was in with a real chance
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 02:43:29 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:43:56 AM
Trump now fav. on Betfair - 1.92 against 2.12
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:46:59 AM
The grown up in me is absolutely terrified. The stupid little boy in me is very, very excited though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:47:38 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:32:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:23:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:21:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.

Maid printing emails
Chelseas wedding paid for by Foundation
650K emails found on wacko Wieners laptop
CNN coordinating directly with Clinton campaign
"Heads up" email from # 2 in DOJ to Podesta

That's just a few to start with

;D ;D ;D ;D

It is hard to know if you are being serious.

Maid printing emails!

You must not know too many people in the military if you think that's not a big deal.

My wife's first cousin had high level security clearance and he couldn't even tell his own mother what part of it he world he was in at any point in time

What has a maid printing emails have to do with a military person hiding from his mother?  ;D

We found out later he was one of the guys chasing the Somali pirates. He was an o-ordinator of some sort for a special ops team

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 09, 2016, 02:48:02 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 02:43:29 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president

Trump chance of winning at 58% and has been rising.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on November 09, 2016, 02:48:29 AM
All the polls were incorrect, he had been claiming that they polls and spin news were biased. Seems like he might be right.
I am very suprised at this but then this is the same nation that voted W in TWICE!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:48:48 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:22:13 AM
Dow futures down 300.
Mexican peso down 8%
https://twitter.com/RobinWigg/status/796180791009144832/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
2:27am Emiliya Mychasuk
Markets are taking the news increasingly badly.
Gold price up almost 2.5 per cent, above $1300.
Flight to safety has sent US Treasury yields into sharp reverse.
US dollar is dropping.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: weareros on November 09, 2016, 02:49:18 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 02:43:29 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president

They had something like 88% chance for Hillary this AM. Some turnaround.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:51:06 AM
Lol....Rachel Maddow can barely speak

Talking about recounts.....hahahah
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:51:33 AM
Quote from: weareros on November 09, 2016, 02:49:18 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 02:43:29 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president

They had something like 88% chance for Hillary this AM. Some turnaround.
Boopies can't price political volatility
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:51:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:47:38 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:32:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:23:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:21:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.

Maid printing emails
Chelseas wedding paid for by Foundation
650K emails found on wacko Wieners laptop
CNN coordinating directly with Clinton campaign
"Heads up" email from # 2 in DOJ to Podesta

That's just a few to start with

;D ;D ;D ;D

It is hard to know if you are being serious.

Maid printing emails!

You must not know too many people in the military if you think that's not a big deal.

My wife's first cousin had high level security clearance and he couldn't even tell his own mother what part of it he world he was in at any point in time

What has a maid printing emails have to do with a military person hiding from his mother?  ;D

We found out later he was one of the guys chasing the Somali pirates. He was an o-ordinator of some sort for a special ops team

Wow.

Chasing Somali Pirates is high level clearance?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:52:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:51:33 AM
Quote from: weareros on November 09, 2016, 02:49:18 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 02:43:29 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president

They had something like 88% chance for Hillary this AM. Some turnaround.
Boopies can't price political volatility

Polling is a flawed concept anyway, it assumes a certain level of sanity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 09, 2016, 02:53:17 AM
1.66!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:54:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:51:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:47:38 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:32:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:23:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:21:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.

Maid printing emails
Chelseas wedding paid for by Foundation
650K emails found on wacko Wieners laptop
CNN coordinating directly with Clinton campaign
"Heads up" email from # 2 in DOJ to Podesta

That's just a few to start with

;D ;D ;D ;D

It is hard to know if you are being serious.

Maid printing emails!

You must not know too many people in the military if you think that's not a big deal.

My wife's first cousin had high level security clearance and he couldn't even tell his own mother what part of it he world he was in at any point in time

What has a maid printing emails have to do with a military person hiding from his mother?  ;D

We found out later he was one of the guys chasing the Somali pirates. He was an o-ordinator of some sort for a special ops team

Wow.

Chasing Somali Pirates is high level clearance?

If your planning the operation and deploying a special ops team to take them
Out it is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:56:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:54:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:51:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:47:38 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:32:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:23:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:21:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.

Maid printing emails
Chelseas wedding paid for by Foundation
650K emails found on wacko Wieners laptop
CNN coordinating directly with Clinton campaign
"Heads up" email from # 2 in DOJ to Podesta

That's just a few to start with

;D ;D ;D ;D

It is hard to know if you are being serious.

Maid printing emails!

You must not know too many people in the military if you think that's not a big deal.

My wife's first cousin had high level security clearance and he couldn't even tell his own mother what part of it he world he was in at any point in time

What has a maid printing emails have to do with a military person hiding from his mother?  ;D

We found out later he was one of the guys chasing the Somali pirates. He was an o-ordinator of some sort for a special ops team

Wow.

Chasing Somali Pirates is high level clearance?

If your planning the operation and deploying a special ops team to take them
Out it is

Is he still in the military?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:57:39 AM
Clinton now looking stronger in VA and can win PA, in which case it's still on for a narrow win. She always only had to stop Trump in about two of the big swing states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:00:44 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:56:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:54:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:51:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:47:38 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:32:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:23:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:21:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:02:16 AM
They're getting very nervous on MSNBC-LOL

B-b-but you said you would vote for Hillary if you lived in a swing State.

Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2016, 12:15:51 AM
Imagine if a Yank who'd never lived in Ireland started telling you what a great fella Bertie Ahern was and they couldnt understand why people didnt like him or wouldnt vote for him~LOL

If the alternative was Trump, I'd vote for Bertie.

And thats why I said Id vote for Hillary if I lived in a swing state

You weren't telling porkies, were you Whitey?

I made that statement before a lot of stuff came out about Hillary, but I think I still would have voted for her.

What stuff?

Please don't pretend to outraged about a 15 month investigation into emails again.

Maid printing emails
Chelseas wedding paid for by Foundation
650K emails found on wacko Wieners laptop
CNN coordinating directly with Clinton campaign
"Heads up" email from # 2 in DOJ to Podesta

That's just a few to start with

;D ;D ;D ;D

It is hard to know if you are being serious.

Maid printing emails!

You must not know too many people in the military if you think that's not a big deal.

My wife's first cousin had high level security clearance and he couldn't even tell his own mother what part of it he world he was in at any point in time

What has a maid printing emails have to do with a military person hiding from his mother?  ;D

We found out later he was one of the guys chasing the Somali pirates. He was an o-ordinator of some sort for a special ops team

Wow.

Chasing Somali Pirates is high level clearance?

If your planning the operation and deploying a special ops team to take them
Out it is

Is he still in the military?

No he's been out for a few years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 09, 2016, 03:01:35 AM
Medical Marijuana passed in Florida, we're gonna need it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 09, 2016, 03:02:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:51:06 AM
Lol....Rachel Maddow can barely speak

Talking about recounts.....hahahah
nice to see her quiet for a change ,shill for Hillary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:05:43 AM
DOW Futures down 500 points.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:08:55 AM
Well Whitey?

Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:45:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM
Hmmmmm......things looking better for Trump in prelim exit polls than I would have thought

If he becomes President, I bet you $1,000 he doesn't lock her up.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 03:09:22 AM
Trump 1.43
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: leenie on November 09, 2016, 03:09:39 AM
 :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:13:13 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:08:55 AM
Well Whitey?

Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:45:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM
Hmmmmm......things looking better for Trump in prelim exit polls than I would have thought

If he becomes President, I bet you $1,000 he doesn't lock her up.  :D

I actually wouldn't like to be the guy from he DOJ who was emailing Podesta

A lot of reasonable people think that the FBI investigations was completely compromised  y Bill meeting with Loretta Lynch so it could (and should) be revisited

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 03:13:53 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 02:57:39 AM
Clinton now looking stronger in VA and can win PA, in which case it's still on for a narrow win. She always only had to stop Trump in about two of the big swing states.
NYT now says 73% chance of Trump win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 09, 2016, 03:14:39 AM
Quote from: dec on November 09, 2016, 02:48:02 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 09, 2016, 02:43:29 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president

Trump chance of winning at 58% and has been rising.

now at 77%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:16:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:13:13 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:08:55 AM
Well Whitey?

Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:45:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM
Hmmmmm......things looking better for Trump in prelim exit polls than I would have thought

If he becomes President, I bet you $1,000 he doesn't lock her up.  :D

I actually wouldn't like to be the guy from he DOJ who was emailing Podesta

A lot of reasonable people think that the FBI investigations was completely compromised  y Bill meeting with Loretta Lynch so it could (and should) be revisited

$1,000.

Will he lock her up as he promised to do?
As he had his rallies cheer him to do.
As he had the handful of his supporters here swear she is a crook.

The bet has a sell-buy date of 100 days from his inauguration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 03:17:44 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 03:09:22 AM
Trump 1.43

I thought it was sown up a few minutes ago..

Peso collapsing against the Dollar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 09, 2016, 03:21:12 AM
1.2 now

Looks difficult for Clinton to stem the tide but all she needs is 1-2 swing states so I wouldn't say it's over yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 03:24:36 AM
Trump takes Ohio. As Ohio goes, so goes the country since 1964.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:25:09 AM
Dollar down 3% v Yen.

Good news for Sterling and the other xenophobes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on November 09, 2016, 03:25:27 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 09, 2016, 03:21:12 AM
1.2 now

Looks difficult for Clinton to stem the tide but all she needs is 1-2 swing states so I wouldn't say it's over yet.

She looks like losing Florida, Ohio, NC, possibly Michigan and Wisconsin. On top of that struggling in Virginia, New Hampshire and Nevada. Looking bleak.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:25:43 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 09, 2016, 03:21:12 AM
1.2 now

Looks difficult for Clinton to stem the tide but all she needs is 1-2 swing states so I wouldn't say it's over yet.

Not over but not looking king good either
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on November 09, 2016, 03:26:11 AM
I'm off to bed. It's Trump's. Bit of a landslide really. Good morning America, how are ye?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:26:24 AM
Nikkei down 1,000 points!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:29:11 AM
Lot of investors were stockpiling cash in anticipation of this...might be lots of buying in the morning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:29:11 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 09, 2016, 03:26:11 AM
I'm off to bed. It's Trump's. Bit of a landslide really. Good morning America, how are ye?!

I don't think we will recognise America in the morning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 03:29:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:25:09 AM
Dollar down 3% v Yen.

Good news for Sterling and the other xenophobes.
It's chaos
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 03:29:36 AM
Leicester wins the league, Britain leaves the EU, Trump wins the presidency and Mayo..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:30:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:29:11 AM
Lot of investors were stockpiling cash in anticipation of this...might be lots of buying in the morning

Ok, I'll offer you this.

Would you take a bet that Mexico builds a wall along the border for him and pays for it entirely?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 03:30:32 AM
CNN calling Ohio for Trump
167 to 109
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:30:57 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 03:29:36 AM
Leicester wins the league, Britain leaves the EU, Trump wins the presidency and Mayo..

...minors would still beat Roscommon Seniors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 03:32:36 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:30:57 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 03:29:36 AM
Leicester wins the league, Britain leaves the EU, Trump wins the presidency and Mayo..

...minors would still beat Roscommon Seniors.

Are these the minors that lost by 30 points to us a few months ago?

At least the FBD is only a few weeks away to distract us from the dumpster fires over both seas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 03:34:18 AM
Nate Cohn

‏@Nate_Cohn
We have Trump as a slight favorite in both Michigan and Pennsylvania, Clinton as a slight fav in WI. She needs all three.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:34:40 AM
DAX futures down 600 points.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: leenie on November 09, 2016, 03:34:52 AM
Clinton has Virginia ..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:36:10 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 03:32:36 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:30:57 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 03:29:36 AM
Leicester wins the league, Britain leaves the EU, Trump wins the presidency and Mayo..

...minors would still beat Roscommon Seniors.

Are these the minors that lost by 30 points to us a few months ago?

At least the FBD is only a few weeks away to distract us from the dumpster fires over both seas.

You don't even have a squad. A team of Donald Trump's toupees would beat you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:37:35 AM
http://fortune.com/2016/11/08/dow-futures-mexican-peso-election-trump-clinton/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter (http://fortune.com/2016/11/08/dow-futures-mexican-peso-election-trump-clinton/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:43:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:34:40 AM
DAX futures down 600 points.

Buy a double short ETF.....you'll make a kiling
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:44:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:43:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:34:40 AM
DAX futures down 600 points.

Buy a double short ETF.....you'll make a kiling

Wanna bet?  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:47:53 AM
DOW down 750 points.

Of course Whitey it will reach a floor and bounce back a few percentage points. But that won't reverse the loss.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:53:08 AM
I wonder do all of the Trump supporters on here, now that he is close to winning, really believe he is going to be better for them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 03:59:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:53:08 AM
I wonder do all of the Trump supporters on here, now that he is close to winning, really believe he is going to be better for them?

Think of the positives you can play at a Trump golf course next time you come here. I will arrange a discount, then again maybe not.

Time for you to log off for a while don't you think.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:59:35 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:47:53 AM
DOW down 750 points.

Of course Whitey it will reach a floor and bounce back a few percentage points. But that won't reverse the loss.

Market was due a good sell off anyway
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 03:59:35 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:47:53 AM
DOW down 750 points.

Of course Whitey it will reach a floor and bounce back a few percentage points. But that won't reverse the loss.

Market was due a good sell off anyway

Good long term buying opportunity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 04:04:44 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:53:08 AM
I wonder do all of the Trump supporters on here, now that he is close to winning, really believe he is going to be better for them?

I don't support him but I'm far more interested to see a Trump presidency than a Clinton one. Just about nothing he does or doesn't do will have a meaningful effect on my quaility of life. It's a social experiment for me, if I'm being honest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on November 09, 2016, 04:18:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:53:08 AM
I wonder do all of the Trump supporters on here, now that he is close to winning, really believe he is going to be better for them?

Probably not but they'll know they have given the political establishment a good kick in the arse, they'll have socked it to the media elites who got it so wrong, all the angry old white guys that are no longer employable will be able to raise an old fist, a last hurrah for the old order. But the robots will still take all their jobs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 04:21:37 AM
Republicans hold the house and senate as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 04:23:39 AM
Trump 1.05
Clinton 18.

Welcome to the 1930s.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2016, 04:24:50 AM
f**k this, time for bed.

Welcome to the Breitbart/Infowars world!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 09, 2016, 04:26:11 AM
Trump's hands to be on the nuclear codes.... A crazy world we live in  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 09, 2016, 04:31:01 AM
Florida gone Trump

This is mad shit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 09, 2016, 05:12:27 AM
this is a damning statement by the people of the united states, the view of the system is damned.

the test of the united states constitution is about to start in earnest, separation of powers indeed.

damning verdict of the female electorate, race trumped gender.

if you believe in a God, best of luck you're going to need him/her

race, gender and economics


i would like to be clear that I got this completely wrong, happy ears, hearing what I wanted, sorry
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 05:20:52 AM
It's like someone said like Brexit all over again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 05:24:22 AM
Our only hope is he flips on all his campaign promises!!!

Not beyond the realm of possibility although the supreme court issue is a f**king scary one! Possibly 2 seats to go to 'Conservatives'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 05:27:51 AM
Why has nobody called it yet??

When we look back 50/100 years from now this will go down as one of the darkest years in our history. The rise of the Brexiteers and the Deplorables will only spur the far right movements around the world and divide us even further... How do we turn this around??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: leenie on November 09, 2016, 05:36:27 AM
 :-\ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 09, 2016, 05:38:18 AM
right now there is about a 95% chance of donald j trump as the president of the united states in january.
this is not a joke, this is real life.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 09, 2016, 05:40:34 AM
Although its unlikely for Clinton at this point I dont think its completely over yet, I just calculated thru an interactive map there and it all hinges on Michigan and New Hampshire, the former especially. Which are both at 1% at the minute
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 09, 2016, 05:42:29 AM
Shit forgot PA was still out..... still a route for Clinton but jaysus its slim
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on November 09, 2016, 05:43:08 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 05:27:51 AM
Why has nobody called it yet??

When we look back 50/100 years from now this will go down as one of the darkest years in our history. The rise of the Brexiteers and the Deplorables will only spur the far right movements around the world and divide us even further... How do we turn this around??

Left wing here but I think the righteousness of the left is the problem. Like that Milan Kundera novel The Book of Laughter and Forgetting where he spoke about the angels laughter which is a righteous laugh that always thinks it's right and the devil's laugh which is more mocking, likes to knock things. Watching some of the debates Hillary had the angels laugh and Donald had the devil's. There's a lot to be said for that anarchist, devil laugh. It's knocked a lot of sacred cows.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AFS on November 09, 2016, 05:45:38 AM
Well, that's the fight against climate change couped. Good job it's only a Chinese conspiracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 05:49:18 AM
Trump 35000 ahead in PA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 09, 2016, 05:51:14 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 05:24:22 AM
Our only hope is he flips on all his campaign promises!!!

Not beyond the realm of possibility although the supreme court issue is a f**king scary one! Possibly 2 seats to go to 'Conservatives'

Jesus surely he'll have to back down on his promises. I can't see him deporting 15,000 Latinos a day.

Btw 30% of the Latino population voted trump. Wtf is wrong with these people. Do they have no loyalty or concern for their own!!

The big problem is that any sane republican won't want to be in his cabinet (US equivalent) and so he'll be surrounded by lunatics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on November 09, 2016, 06:10:28 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 09, 2016, 05:51:14 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 05:24:22 AM
Our only hope is he flips on all his campaign promises!!!

Not beyond the realm of possibility although the supreme court issue is a f**king scary one! Possibly 2 seats to go to 'Conservatives'

Jesus surely he'll have to back down on his promises. I can't see him deporting 15,000 Latinos a day.

Btw 30% of the Latino population voted trump. Wtf is wrong with these people. Do they have no loyalty or concern for their own!!

The big problem is that any sane republican won't want to be in his cabinet (US equivalent) and so he'll be surrounded by lunatics.

They will have to work with him as they have the house and the senate. Only hope is the republicans there keep him in check.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 07:13:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:53:08 AM
I wonder do all of the Trump supporters on here, now that he is close to winning, really believe he is going to be better for them?
the betrayal will be epic

"The Wasichus had slaughtered all the bison and shut us up in pens. It looked as though we might all starve to death. We could not eat lies'. From Black Elk speaks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 07:14:51 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on November 09, 2016, 06:10:28 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 09, 2016, 05:51:14 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 05:24:22 AM
Our only hope is he flips on all his campaign promises!!!

Not beyond the realm of possibility although the supreme court issue is a f**king scary one! Possibly 2 seats to go to 'Conservatives'

Jesus surely he'll have to back down on his promises. I can't see him deporting 15,000 Latinos a day.

Btw 30% of the Latino population voted trump. Wtf is wrong with these people. Do they have no loyalty or concern for their own!!

The big problem is that any sane republican won't want to be in his cabinet (US equivalent) and so he'll be surrounded by lunatics.

They will have to work with him as they have the house and the senate. Only hope is the republicans there keep him in check.
Maybe Nigel Falange can help out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 07:17:59 AM
This is very f**king scary for Jewish people. Because when the political language is reduced to draining swamps it's a dog whistle. And there has been vile antiSemitism on social media.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump was assassinated. Nobody knows what happened Kennedy.

the people voted but the people don't really matter in the big picture of senior American hurling. It's not like the system was ever about them at any time in the last 30 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOuf69G7AQU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 07:31:48 AM
Adam Posen ‏@AdamPosen  3 h


Next let us look for historical examples where authoritarian incompetence and self-dealing quickly led to reversals

Bonnie Prince Charlie maybe

Edward Luce

‏@EdwardGLuce
Americans have no idea what authoritarianism is like. It isn't reality TV
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 09, 2016, 07:41:20 AM
Not at all surprised. Brexit & the last British GE  have all shown us polling as a predictive science is dead. Americans are bigger dumbasses than the English.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 09, 2016, 07:46:14 AM
Fasten your seat belts folks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 07:50:21 AM
Live http://www.nytimes.com/

Decency, the rule of law, logic, cooperation, tolerance, competence- you took one hell of a beating
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Trap on November 09, 2016, 07:51:57 AM
The world is in turmoil.........celebrity and money are the major powers.........was listening to a song earlier that said if we tolerate this then our children will be next........well don't know what world we are leaving to our children!!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thewobbler on November 09, 2016, 07:55:46 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2016, 07:41:20 AM
Not at all surprised. Brexit & the last British GE  have all shown us polling as a ptedictive science is dead. Americans are bigger dumbasses than the English.

People in glass houses.

I still reckon that the Irish electorate giving two fingers to Fine Gael for turning their country around is worse than any of the above.

The Tories probably earned the right for another go.
Brexit was too confusing for 99.9% of us to understand the vote.
America has been largely run by the Democrats for 20 years yet inequality for the working class has never been worse.

Ireland though, it was clear cut. FG had largely solved the rotten mess created by FF. anybody should have been able to understand that. Except half the Irish population.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 08:00:00 AM
At stake in this election were two competing worldviews.

One may have been largely uninspiring but it was based in reality.

The other is based on ignorance, hatred, division, and a wilful denial of reality. The trolls really have taken over.

This is a bizarre, post-fact world we're living in and the next four years of it are going to be extremely unpleasant.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 09, 2016, 08:07:02 AM
Interesting times indeed. Clinton even manages to feck up the concession. Wonder what our contingency plan for the multinational sector is??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2016, 08:08:54 AM
I wonder if any other US President-elect has talked about a statue of a racehorse in their victory speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 09, 2016, 08:13:25 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 09, 2016, 08:07:02 AM
Interesting times indeed. Clinton even manages to feck up the concession. Wonder what our contingency plan for the multinational sector is??

This could be more dangerous for the 26 than brexit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 08:19:51 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 09, 2016, 08:08:54 AM
I wonder if any other US President-elect has talked about a statue of a racehorse in their victory speech.
Trump's win in the Sunshine state was a real Florida Pearl for him, expect him to be a frequent Moscow Flyer now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 09, 2016, 08:22:11 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 09, 2016, 07:55:46 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2016, 07:41:20 AM
Not at all surprised. Brexit & the last British GE  have all shown us polling as a ptedictive science is dead. Americans are bigger dumbasses than the English.

People in glass houses.

I still reckon that the Irish electorate giving two fingers to Fine Gael for turning their country around is worse than any of the above.

The Tories probably earned the right for another go.
Brexit was too confusing for 99.9% of us to understand the vote.
America has been largely run by the Democrats for 20 years yet inequality for the working class has never been worse.

Ireland though, it was clear cut. FG had largely solved the rotten mess created by FF. anybody should have been able to understand that. Except half the Irish population.
I'd agree with most of that apart from Brexit, f**k all confusing about it, laziness, disinterest & complacency lost it for Remain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2016, 08:25:29 AM
I can't help but smile at the Irish derision of Americans who voted for a reality TV star. The same Irish who tried their hardest to elect Sean Gallagher.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 08:25:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 08:00:00 AM
At stake in this election were two competing worldviews.

One may have been largely uninspiring but it was based in reality.

The other is based on ignorance, hatred, division, and a wilful denial of reality. The trolls really have taken over.

This is a bizarre, post-fact world we're living in and the next four years of it are going to be extremely unpleasant.
Fox news is the new official reality.
When there is no growth politics is very different.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maddog on November 09, 2016, 08:28:00 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2016, 08:22:11 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 09, 2016, 07:55:46 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2016, 07:41:20 AM
Not at all surprised. Brexit & the last British GE  have all shown us polling as a ptedictive science is dead. Americans are bigger dumbasses than the English.

People in glass houses.

I still reckon that the Irish electorate giving two fingers to Fine Gael for turning their country around is worse than any of the above.

The Tories probably earned the right for another go.
Brexit was too confusing for 99.9% of us to understand the vote.
America has been largely run by the Democrats for 20 years yet inequality for the working class has never been worse.

Ireland though, it was clear cut. FG had largely solved the rotten mess created by FF. anybody should have been able to understand that. Except half the Irish population.
I'd agree with most of that apart from Brexit, f**k all confusing about it, laziness, disinterest & complacency lost it for Remain.


And the outright lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 08:31:17 AM
Clinton was a bad candidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 08:34:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

No need. You already know the answer.
You're not replying to my last post. For the fourth time, if you're not a troll, or even if you are, please answer the question.

Listen doll, this isn't The Hague. We both know the answer to your question so you can quit it.
Sixth time. I don't know the answer as to why you do things. Please tell me. Troll rating up with Fearon now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 09, 2016, 08:37:21 AM
Just some disenfranchised Americans desperate for change because the country hasn't been working for them ;) ;)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwzJXxqVEAE3y8W.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 08:38:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 08:31:17 AM
Clinton was a bad candidate.

Stupid Goddam Democrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 08:52:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 07:17:59 AM
This is very f**king scary for Jewish people. Because when the political language is reduced to draining swamps it's a dog whistle. And there has been vile antiSemitism on social media.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump was assassinated. Nobody knows what happened Kennedy.

the people voted but the people don't really matter in the big picture of senior American hurling. It's not like the system was ever about them at any time in the last 30 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOuf69G7AQU


A fairly likely scenario I think.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 08:57:31 AM
So how will this effect you personally??

Financially, environmentally, and whatever else?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 09:09:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 08:57:31 AM
So how will this effect you personally??

Financially, environmentally, and whatever else?

1) Serious questions posed as regards US multinationals FDI in Dublin.

2) Have a look at the markets, combined with Brexit there is a hell of a lot of uncertainty ahead.

3) Any friends or family living as illegals in the US? Might be time to get the spare room sorted.

4) The man carries the potential of a diplomatic crisis every time he opens his mouth and voices his ridiculous opinions.

5) Serious kick in the groin for anyone who respects women.


Is it really a question that any sane individual needs answering? Then again, sanity isn't something that goes together well with Trump supporters and the lunatic right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 09:35:46 AM
Any chance that he won't be as radical as his soundbites?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 09:36:57 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/the-unknown-country
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 09:38:02 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 08:38:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 08:31:17 AM
Clinton was a bad candidate.

Stupid Goddam Democrats.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/donald-trump-white-house-hillary-clinton-liberals

Reminded me of FF in 2011
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 09:48:47 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 09:35:46 AM
Any chance that he won't be as radical as his soundbites?
The Brexit crowd changed their tune as soon as the vote was known

I was just thinking about the image of the US we get from telly and movies all the time. The glamour. The potential.
I wanted to be one of these lads if I didn't make it as a Galway hurler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5-bD372v5s

Even now it's the same shite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbIuNqj_ueQ

The UK is similar. Loads of flash. But there's a world they never show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2eGmsfbyHs
And that world voted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 09, 2016, 09:54:51 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwz6BHDXEAABskZ.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:10:34 AM
That implies the voters regretting what they've done Declan. I actually think there is a proper support for Trump and his populist messages. Whether they regret it when he doesn't do some of the stuff he said he will (hopefully), is another thing.

I think the one thing this election has shown, if Brexit and the previous UK election didn't, is that pollsters and political experts haven't any more of a clue than the rest of us. I was listening to the coverage most of the night on FOX radio, CNN radio, NPR radio and BBC World Service. They were *ALL* calling Pennsylvania for Clinton, even as the night was going against her. I went to sleep when I heard Wisconsin was called for Trump by AP, because I guessed at that stage that she'd lose one of the states that she now needed to run the table on.

But in general I think most of the prognosticators got egg on their faces because they refused to believe that Trumps populism would hit a chord with what is still the biggest voting demographic in the US. All the media coverage and stupid celebrity tweets don't change the fact that Trump was saying things that like it or not struck a chord with a lot of people. The fact he also said other things which would appear to make him unfit to be leader of a Weightwatchers class, never mind president of the US should have ruled him out of the race, but because he was against such a deeply unpopular opponent herself, they didn't hurt him as much as they should have, except with people who probably weren't going to vote for him anyway.

The media need to go away and re-evaluate how they cover elections and what they thought they knew. We need to basically ignore opinion polls until they prove themselves worthy of belief again.


One of the exit polls which struck a chord with me was the voting population one. At the time it said that 70% of voters where white, 12% of voters were black and 11% of voters were Hispanic. That immediately says to me that while going after the minority vote *is* important, it should not be done at the expense of the majority vote if you want to win an election. Trump fished in a bigger lake, and he caught the more fish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 10:18:33 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

The problem is that the people who will really do work for the poor in society weren't selected in the primaries (Sanders), or are attacked by the media in an attempt to not let them anywhere near power (Corbyn, SF, Podemos in Spain etc). 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on November 09, 2016, 10:25:50 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

This surely must be the most surreal statement on this thread.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

I had that thought too. I think this is a reality check. The silent majority is still the majority and you have to cater for their concerns, not just the popular causes, to win big elections.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballinaman on November 09, 2016, 10:38:49 AM
Watching acceptance speech here....somebody actually shouted KILL OBAMA out from the crowd
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 09, 2016, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 09:09:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 08:57:31 AM
So how will this effect you personally??

Financially, environmentally, and whatever else?

1) Serious questions posed as regards US multinationals FDI in Dublin.

2) Have a look at the markets, combined with Brexit there is a hell of a lot of uncertainty ahead.

3) Any friends or family living as illegals in the US? Might be time to get the spare room sorted.

4) The man carries the potential of a diplomatic crisis every time he opens his mouth and voices his ridiculous opinions.

5) Serious kick in the groin for anyone who respects women.


Is it really a question that any sane individual needs answering? Then again, sanity isn't something that goes together well with Trump supporters and the lunatic right.

Did Clinton respect women?

Americans are sick of the clintons and their ilk, they elected this twat over here, you cannot be a rude, obnoxious bitch who looks down on people, steal money, have maids print out classified secrets, lie about American dead etc and get elected,

I have no gra for Trump but I am delighted the Supreme Court will remain in conservative hands................. As for Trump, this has been the most amazing political run I have ever seen, any other candidat and I would be delighted for them, not this clown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 10:41:00 AM
The Democrats crying foul blaming lawsuits limiting elligable voters et al. But the fact is both sides played very dirty and Trump managed to win despite his party establishment hating him and spending far less than Clinton.

Says his message connected and he won as fairly and as squarely as any Republican presidential nominee in my lifetime. There are going to be some incredible case studies and deep dives into the data of this election in the years ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: grounded on November 09, 2016, 10:42:33 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:10:34 AM
That implies the voters regretting what they've done Declan. I actually think there is a proper support for Trump and his populist messages. Whether they regret it when he doesn't do some of the stuff he said he will (hopefully), is another thing.

I think the one thing this election has shown, if Brexit and the previous UK election didn't, is that pollsters and political experts haven't any more of a clue than the rest of us. I was listening to the coverage most of the night on FOX radio, CNN radio, NPR radio and BBC World Service. They were *ALL* calling Pennsylvania for Clinton, even as the night was going against her. I went to sleep when I heard Wisconsin was called for Trump by AP, because I guessed at that stage that she'd lose one of the states that she now needed to run the table on.

But in general I think most of the prognosticators got egg on their faces because they refused to believe that Trumps populism would hit a chord with what is still the biggest voting demographic in the US. All the media coverage and stupid celebrity tweets don't change the fact that Trump was saying things that like it or not struck a chord with a lot of people. The fact he also said other things which would appear to make him unfit to be leader of a Weightwatchers class, never mind president of the US should have ruled him out of the race, but because he was against such a deeply unpopular opponent herself, they didn't hurt him as much as they should have, except with people who probably weren't going to vote for him anyway.

The media need to go away and re-evaluate how they cover elections and what they thought they knew. We need to basically ignore opinion polls until they prove themselves worthy of belief again.


One of the exit polls which struck a chord with me was the voting population one. At the time it said that 70% of voters where white, 12% of voters were black and 11% of voters were Hispanic. That immediately says to me that while going after the minority vote *is* important, it should not be done at the expense of the majority vote if you want to win an election. Trump fished in a bigger lake, and he caught the more fish.

A well written article here on political polls http://uk.businessinsider.com/what-is-poll-margin-of-error-and-how-can-it-be-wrong-2016-8?r=US&IR=T

Gallup dropped out 2015 in political horse racing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Zulu on November 09, 2016, 10:47:35 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

I had that thought too. I think this is a reality check. The silent majority is still the majority and you have to cater for their concerns, not just the popular causes, to win big elections.

Don't really agree. These working class voters voted for a billionaire, from an already wealthy family who has shipped their manufacturing jobs to China himself, apparently stiffed sub-contractors and ran a con-job university selling the 'dream' to gullible ordinary folk. It seems the working class continue to do what they've always done and vote for, or accept, leaders who will play to their gallery but never do anything for them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 10:50:55 AM
Quote from: stew on November 09, 2016, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 09:09:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 08:57:31 AM
So how will this effect you personally??

Financially, environmentally, and whatever else?

1) Serious questions posed as regards US multinationals FDI in Dublin.

2) Have a look at the markets, combined with Brexit there is a hell of a lot of uncertainty ahead.

3) Any friends or family living as illegals in the US? Might be time to get the spare room sorted.

4) The man carries the potential of a diplomatic crisis every time he opens his mouth and voices his ridiculous opinions.

5) Serious kick in the groin for anyone who respects women.


Is it really a question that any sane individual needs answering? Then again, sanity isn't something that goes together well with Trump supporters and the lunatic right.

Did Clinton respect women?

Americans are sick of the clintons and their ilk, they elected this twat over here, you cannot be a rude, obnoxious bitch who looks down on people, steal money, have maids print out classified secrets, lie about American dead etc and get elected,

I have no gra for Trump but I am delighted the Supreme Court will remain in conservative hands................. As for Trump, this has been the most amazing political run I have ever seen, any other candidat and I would be delighted for them, not this clown.


I hate Clinton but I'd rather her than the buffoon the Americans just elected, at least she wasn't proclaiming that famous men can grab women whenever and wherever they want just because they're famous. The hypocrisy of both of them is ridiculous but at least with Clinton we're not running the risk of a nuclear war the next time "The Donald" is offended by another country. When the markets are still f*cked over in six months the people that matter in society will get onto their puppets and Trump won't see out 2017 anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2016, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

I had that thought too. I think this is a reality check. The silent majority is still the majority and you have to cater for their concerns, not just the popular causes, to win big elections.

But what has Trump promised them?

Are trade wars going to reverse decades of mechanization/automation and industrial flight in search of lower costs and thus cheaper prices?

Are all these put-upon white people going to start to do the landscaping, roofing, asbestos abatement, hotel room cleaning and food delivery jobs that Hispanic immigrants are now doing?

How are poorer whites going to fare now when Paul Ryan budgets, slashing benefits, medical coverage and programmes, left, right and centre, in favour of tax cuts for the rich, suddenly start passing congress and the White House?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 10:53:34 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 10:18:33 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

The problem is that the people who will really do work for the poor in society weren't selected in the primaries (Sanders), or are attacked by the media in an attempt to not let them anywhere near power (Corbyn, SF, Podemos in Spain etc).
Trump offers little other than the same old failed slash taxes for the rich, trickle down nonsense. He has promised a moratorium on financial regulation and wants to get rid of Dodd-Frank. A 17 year Goldman Sachs veteran in Steve Mnuchin is likely to be appointed Treasury Secretary.

John Bolton, who wants to bomb Iran, may well be his Secretary of State.

"Anti-establishment outsider" he is not, he's the polar opposite.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:58:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

I had that thought too. I think this is a reality check. The silent majority is still the majority and you have to cater for their concerns, not just the popular causes, to win big elections.

But what has Trump promised them?

Are trade wars going to reverse decades of mechanization and industrial flight in search of lower costs and thus cheaper prices?

Are all these put-upon white people going to start to do the landscaping, roofing, asbestos abatement, hotel room cleaning and food delivery jobs that Hispanic immigrants are now doing?

How are poorer whites going to fare now when Paul Ryan budgets, slashing benefits, medical coverage and programmes, left, right and centre, in favour of tax cuts for the rich, suddenly start passing congress and the White House?


My post wasn't endorsing Trump, just saying that I think Democracy is perversely all the better after this election as it will compel governments everywhere to pay heed to a portion of the population very often disregarded. Imo of course.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 11:06:05 AM
The GOP can't whine any more. No need for obstructionism. They won everything.
So they have the ball. And they can't blame anyone else if they f**k it up
They can destroy Obamacare. But will they fix healthcare?

They aren't even a united party.

The US is at a point in history where several structural crises are blowing up at the same time. Healthcare, inequality, vets, climate, economy

Lying to gain power is no help. Ask Theresa May.

The Trump euphoria will wear off. The GOP is funded by the same deplorables as the Democratic party.
It will be fascinating. Money vs the voters. Giuliani, Christie and Gingrich are Yank versions of Bojo, Davies and Gove . They have no ideas.

Bonaparte said never get involved when your enemy is making a mistake.
The Dems should get in some sofas and a big order of popcorn.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: grounded on November 09, 2016, 11:09:45 AM
I can't help thinking about this clip everytime i hear a local politician congratulate Trump this morning!

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjdyLrvw5vQAhXJVSwKHRGOBNEQtwIIHzAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DN38z9gYOEIY&usg=AFQjCNERAyGXb4R1KWCRyJYf4Fhz1PDh2Q
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: Zulu on November 09, 2016, 10:47:35 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

I had that thought too. I think this is a reality check. The silent majority is still the majority and you have to cater for their concerns, not just the popular causes, to win big elections.

Don't really agree. These working class voters voted for a billionaire, from an already wealthy family who has shipped their manufacturing jobs to China himself, apparently stiffed sub-contractors and ran a con-job university selling the 'dream' to gullible ordinary folk. It seems the working class continue to do what they've always done and vote for, or accept, leaders who will play to their gallery but never do anything for them.

Yes, but that's what the Clinton campaign didn't ram home. What they voted for was someone who articulated the type of stuff they are worried about, and it resonated. As I said earlier, I think if Sanders ran, Trump would have lost heavily. The Democrats should have been calling out all that bullshit, but instead it became a contest between the political establishment, protecting Wall Street and Washington interests, versus a newcomer who spoke the language of the common man.

All bullshit of course, for the reasons you outline, and it will be interesting to see what he actually does to cater for those voters in power, but what it does do in America is say that you can't ignore the silent majority for the sake of chasing the latest demographic, or the latest trendy topic among celebs and media commentators.

Tell people who have it hard that you're going to make it better, tell them you'll make their fears go away, tell them you know what they are going through, and you will have a big chance of being elected.

I know populism is not exactly new. Every Irish election is an exercise in it. But in the States and in the UK, the real popular worries were not identified by the establishment, and that's why the results were a surprise to pollsters and media 'experts'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 11:15:15 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 10:41:00 AM
The Democrats crying foul blaming lawsuits limiting elligable voters et al. But the fact is both sides played very dirty and Trump managed to win despite his party establishment hating him and spending far less than Clinton.

Says his message connected and he won as fairly and as squarely as any Republican presidential nominee in my lifetime. There are going to be some incredible case studies and deep dives into the data of this election in the years ahead.

The GOP has to rule now. And that is hard. Ask Shane Ross.

It's like being Roscommon manager. You are answerable
No sniping from the sidelines or multiple accounts.
And the US has huge issues to deal with. Healthcare is as daunting as Mayo in Castlebar on a dry sod. .

We don't know if this election is that significant. The next one could be more important. Because the economy is not working.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 11:18:48 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: Zulu on November 09, 2016, 10:47:35 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

I had that thought too. I think this is a reality check. The silent majority is still the majority and you have to cater for their concerns, not just the popular causes, to win big elections.

Don't really agree. These working class voters voted for a billionaire, from an already wealthy family who has shipped their manufacturing jobs to China himself, apparently stiffed sub-contractors and ran a con-job university selling the 'dream' to gullible ordinary folk. It seems the working class continue to do what they've always done and vote for, or accept, leaders who will play to their gallery but never do anything for them.

Yes, but that's what the Clinton campaign didn't ram home. What they voted for was someone who articulated the type of stuff they are worried about, and it resonated. As I said earlier, I think if Sanders ran, Trump would have lost heavily. The Democrats should have been calling out all that bullshit, but instead it became a contest between the political establishment, protecting Wall Street and Washington interests, versus a newcomer who spoke the language of the common man.

All bullshit of course, for the reasons you outline, and it will be interesting to see what he actually does to cater for those voters in power, but what it does do in America is say that you can't ignore the silent majority for the sake of chasing the latest demographic, or the latest trendy topic among celebs and media commentators.

Tell people who have it hard that you're going to make it better, tell them you'll make their fears go away, tell them you know what they are going through, and you will have a big chance of being elected.

I know populism is not exactly new. Every Irish election is an exercise in it. But in the States and in the UK, the real popular worries were not identified by the establishment, and that's why the results were a surprise to pollsters and media 'experts'.
The media kept on selling the idea that things were fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg

Bernie was unacceptable to the funders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 11:19:11 AM
I presume the Republicans hold all three arms of the legislature now? That's actually a massive thing in terms of policy and reversing a lot of the stuff that Obama got through. I'm not sure there'll be a wall from California to the Gulf of MExico, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Obamacare get the boot.

A Trump presidency with a Democratic Congress would have been less drastic, but this could be a radical, radical shift to the conservative/right.

The other thing is because he has this mandate, and the GOP control the other houses, he has little wriggle room if he does not manage to keep muslims out of America or build a wall around Mexico or generally make America Great again.

Interesting times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 11:20:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 11:15:15 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 10:41:00 AM
The Democrats crying foul blaming lawsuits limiting elligable voters et al. But the fact is both sides played very dirty and Trump managed to win despite his party establishment hating him and spending far less than Clinton.

Says his message connected and he won as fairly and as squarely as any Republican presidential nominee in my lifetime. There are going to be some incredible case studies and deep dives into the data of this election in the years ahead.

The GOP has to rule now. And that is hard. Ask Shane Ross.

It's like being Roscommon manager. You are answerable
No sniping from the sidelines or multiple accounts.
And the US has huge issues to deal with. Healthcare is as daunting as Mayo in Castlebar on a dry sod. .

We don't know if this election is that significant. The next one could be more important. Because the economy is not working.

Youu'll have to use that one in your next comment on a FT article on their site.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 11:18:48 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: Zulu on November 09, 2016, 10:47:35 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

I had that thought too. I think this is a reality check. The silent majority is still the majority and you have to cater for their concerns, not just the popular causes, to win big elections.

Don't really agree. These working class voters voted for a billionaire, from an already wealthy family who has shipped their manufacturing jobs to China himself, apparently stiffed sub-contractors and ran a con-job university selling the 'dream' to gullible ordinary folk. It seems the working class continue to do what they've always done and vote for, or accept, leaders who will play to their gallery but never do anything for them.

Yes, but that's what the Clinton campaign didn't ram home. What they voted for was someone who articulated the type of stuff they are worried about, and it resonated. As I said earlier, I think if Sanders ran, Trump would have lost heavily. The Democrats should have been calling out all that bullshit, but instead it became a contest between the political establishment, protecting Wall Street and Washington interests, versus a newcomer who spoke the language of the common man.

All bullshit of course, for the reasons you outline, and it will be interesting to see what he actually does to cater for those voters in power, but what it does do in America is say that you can't ignore the silent majority for the sake of chasing the latest demographic, or the latest trendy topic among celebs and media commentators.

Tell people who have it hard that you're going to make it better, tell them you'll make their fears go away, tell them you know what they are going through, and you will have a big chance of being elected.

I know populism is not exactly new. Every Irish election is an exercise in it. But in the States and in the UK, the real popular worries were not identified by the establishment, and that's why the results were a surprise to pollsters and media 'experts'.
The media kept on selling the idea that things were fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg

Bernie was unacceptable to the funders.

That's what I mean. They didn't identify that people were pissed off, and didn't understand what that meant. They focussed on Hilary bringing out the Latino and Black vote. But they underestimated the White vote, and the fact that Trump was basically saying 1) I'll protect you from the evil terrorists, 2) I'll stop illegal migrants coming in here and taking our welfare (ha!) and 3) I'm not one of these establishment types, so I'll not be in their pocket like Clinton is.

The Democrats made a bollix of it, because they underestimated the amount that was resonating with, and they chased the 23%, and basically took the 70% for granted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 11:36:37 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

What did they vote for though?? It's exactly like Brexit people voted to change things but nobody knows what that means. "It will be bigly great, better than you've ever seen that's for sure".

What the f**k does it mean? Trump doesn't have a coherent legislative plan. "Repeal and replace" replace it with what?!

My own view on it is that the last 2 weeks did Hillary in. The nonsense FBI statement coming hotly on the heels of the increased Obamacare premiums turned the tide in the Donald's favour... he just hasn't massively fucked up the past 2 weeks! Had they saved their October surprise for a November surprise would things have been different?

The people have no idea what they voted for only something different!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: WT4E on November 09, 2016, 11:38:42 AM
Was there someone on here who had big money on trump at big odds from the start - or did i imagine that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 11:44:11 AM
Just read on Twitter... A £5 bet on Leicester to win the Premier League, Brexit and a Trump Presidency would have netted you a cool £12.5m!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 11:48:47 AM
Obama 2020!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2016, 11:49:21 AM
While no fan of Trump, the left-wing, pc media over here made little attempt to be objective.
There wasn't much delving into why people were supporting Trump, apart from them being uneducated, rednecks and racists.
Even today Irish radio stations were still calling out some of the allegations against Trump which have not stood up.

It is the same sort of condescension they aim towards Kerry people voting for the Healy-Raes. Which apparently they are doing to drive the cappuccino set in South Dublin mad, rather than out of their own local and self interests.

Outside of some of the thriving cities, there are a lot of parts of the US that have been left behind. Trump has tapped into that disenchantment which suggests he connects with the ordinary person better than his rivals and doubters.
He'll probably mess up as much as he fixes, but it's another lesson about how disconnected establishment insiders have become.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 12:08:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 11:48:47 AM
Obama 2020!!!!
the missus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2016, 11:49:21 AM
While no fan of Trump, the left-wing, pc media over here made little attempt to be objective.
There wasn't much delving into why people were supporting Trump, apart from them being uneducated, rednecks and racists.

If you looked a little bit, which you obviously didn't, there was a ton of coverage about what was motivating voters across the US, and none more so than about what was happening in places like Ohio, Michigan and West Virginia than anywhere else.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 12:20:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 11:18:48 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: Zulu on November 09, 2016, 10:47:35 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

I had that thought too. I think this is a reality check. The silent majority is still the majority and you have to cater for their concerns, not just the popular causes, to win big elections.

Don't really agree. These working class voters voted for a billionaire, from an already wealthy family who has shipped their manufacturing jobs to China himself, apparently stiffed sub-contractors and ran a con-job university selling the 'dream' to gullible ordinary folk. It seems the working class continue to do what they've always done and vote for, or accept, leaders who will play to their gallery but never do anything for them.

Yes, but that's what the Clinton campaign didn't ram home. What they voted for was someone who articulated the type of stuff they are worried about, and it resonated. As I said earlier, I think if Sanders ran, Trump would have lost heavily. The Democrats should have been calling out all that bullshit, but instead it became a contest between the political establishment, protecting Wall Street and Washington interests, versus a newcomer who spoke the language of the common man.

All bullshit of course, for the reasons you outline, and it will be interesting to see what he actually does to cater for those voters in power, but what it does do in America is say that you can't ignore the silent majority for the sake of chasing the latest demographic, or the latest trendy topic among celebs and media commentators.

Tell people who have it hard that you're going to make it better, tell them you'll make their fears go away, tell them you know what they are going through, and you will have a big chance of being elected.

I know populism is not exactly new. Every Irish election is an exercise in it. But in the States and in the UK, the real popular worries were not identified by the establishment, and that's why the results were a surprise to pollsters and media 'experts'.
The media kept on selling the idea that things were fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg

Bernie was unacceptable to the funders.

That's what I mean. They didn't identify that people were pissed off, and didn't understand what that meant. They focussed on Hilary bringing out the Latino and Black vote. But they underestimated the White vote, and the fact that Trump was basically saying 1) I'll protect you from the evil terrorists, 2) I'll stop illegal migrants coming in here and taking our welfare (ha!) and 3) I'm not one of these establishment types, so I'll not be in their pocket like Clinton is.

The Democrats made a bollix of it, because they underestimated the amount that was resonating with, and they chased the 23%, and basically took the 70% for granted.
Turnouts will be interesting. Bluecollar people who have been shafted were very motivated.
People in forgotten towns are drinking themselves to death in their 50s.
If that was someone in my family I wouldn't have voted for Clinton.

The media are a joke. It's not business as usual and it hasn't been since 2008.
Just listen to RTE any time. Most of it is plamas.
Some of the stats from the US are truly shocking.

Nobody is getting payrises. Because all the profits are going to capital.
Corporate profits are at record levels.
And that's not good for democracy.

All the comedians taking the piss out of Trump voters . Bill Maher donated $1 million to Clinton or Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.

People had legitimate grievances and they were poopooed as fascists,misogynists, islamophobes or homophobes by the main stream media if they dared question Hillarys fitness to serve.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 12:30:38 PM
I think it will be like the Egyptian revolution. There is no way the ultra rich are going to loosen their grip on the US without a fight to the near death. History says you only get concessions when they are afraid. The NHS and social security didn't come out of watching baseball or cricket matches.   Brexit will be the same. It really doesn't matter what working class people think .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hBV0ApIh_4

They can always be plamased with hate or fear while they get shafted in the background.
That is the job of the Daily Mail and Fox. To put smacht on people who think they are in control.

Because people may be angry but they are not organised. And if you are not organised you can forget it.
The whole point of breaking the unions in the 80s was to neutralise resistance.

Last time capital vs Labour ended up in Auschwitz. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:33:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

Yes ObamaCare will get the chop.

But at what price? It is incredible that in the world's richest country, there are people who have no access to health care. What is even more shameful is that the people who want to make this situation far worse, consider themselves Christians.

Moving on, the market wobble this morning gives a clue of what is likely to happen. Every time Trump moves towards any of his headline promises, the markets will do the same thing. Can he be restrained? Maybe for a while, but his monstrous ego will get tired of that pretty quickly.

Trump supporters seemed only interested in who they were keeping out of the White House, and most of them have no clue of the type of man they have put in. Nor do they even care. That will change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.

People had legitimate grievances and they were poopooed as fascists,misogynists, islamophobes or homophobes by the main stream media if they dared question Hillarys fitness to serve.

But this is what you just voted for. Trump is overtly misogynistic and most likely an islamophobe.

Along with pro-Russian, anti-Mexican, anti-Global warming, anti-Iran Nuclear Treaty, anti-EU, anti-NAFTA etc, etc.

You can't blame Hillary or the media for that. If you support an extremist, don't pretend to be all hurt when you are called an extremist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2016, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2016, 11:49:21 AM
While no fan of Trump, the left-wing, pc media over here made little attempt to be objective.
There wasn't much delving into why people were supporting Trump, apart from them being uneducated, rednecks and racists.

If you looked a little bit, which you obviously didn't, there was a ton of coverage about what was motivating voters across the US, and none more so than about what was happening in places like Ohio, Michigan and West Virginia than anywhere else.
Incorrect. The majority of British and Irish media coverage painted Trump supporters in an unflattering light.
Far more vox pops with nut jobs at rallies than discussions with real voters.
Stuff like rust belt and blue collar were  namechecked but rarely quantified.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:44:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.

People had legitimate grievances and they were poopooed as fascists,misogynists, islamophobes or homophobes by the main stream media if they dared question Hillarys fitness to serve.

But this is what you just voted for. Trump is overtly misogynistic and most likely an islamophobe.

Along with pro-Russian, anti-Mexican, anti-Global warming, anti-Iran Nuclear Treaty, anti-EU, anti-NAFTA etc, etc.

You can't blame Hillary or the media for that. If you support an extremist, don't pretend to be all hurt when you are called an extremist.

People had and have real grievances and the establishment did not listen to them




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:44:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.

People had legitimate grievances and they were poopooed as fascists,misogynists, islamophobes or homophobes by the main stream media if they dared question Hillarys fitness to serve.

But this is what you just voted for. Trump is overtly misogynistic and most likely an islamophobe.

Along with pro-Russian, anti-Mexican, anti-Global warming, anti-Iran Nuclear Treaty, anti-EU, anti-NAFTA etc, etc.

You can't blame Hillary or the media for that. If you support an extremist, don't pretend to be all hurt when you are called an extremist.

People had and have real grievances and the establishment did not listen to them

And you think it will now.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

People had real grievances in 1920s Germany as well. The establishment didn't listen then either.

Two things won this elections for Trump:

1) Russian hackers;
2) A lazy media calling it for Hillary and the ensuing complacency among voters;

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 09, 2016, 12:52:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2016, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: Canalman on November 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
May in the long term be a good thing for democracy around the world. The working and struggling classes have by and large spoken in the Uk and now America.

Governments will now have to pay more attention to that section of the population very often disregarded and sad to say very often sneered at ( including some posters on this forum). Absolutely nothing wrong with people who left school early to earn a living/ work a trade etc  having a say in democracy .

Victory yesterday for the people who like their coffee to come from a kettle / coffee pot as opposed to coming  frothy from a machine.

I had that thought too. I think this is a reality check. The silent majority is still the majority and you have to cater for their concerns, not just the popular causes, to win big elections.

But what has Trump promised them?

Are trade wars going to reverse decades of mechanization/automation and industrial flight in search of lower costs and thus cheaper prices?

Are all these put-upon white people going to start to do the landscaping, roofing, asbestos abatement, hotel room cleaning and food delivery jobs that Hispanic immigrants are now doing?

How are poorer whites going to fare now when Paul Ryan budgets, slashing benefits, medical coverage and programmes, left, right and centre, in favour of tax cuts for the rich, suddenly start passing congress and the White House?

Quit yer bitchin, Obamacare and ten trillion in debt fucked America, you liberals had your go and now it's time to give a left wing so called Republican a go, he cannot be any worse than the arsehole in chief that currently resides in the white house.

Clintons career is over, I hope Trump goes after the FBI & especially the DOJ, I would say there are a fair few boys dunging the togs today.

Trump needs to have an impartial outside body to look at the email scandals as well as the foundation strap on ran, then the Clinton three need to be incarcerated for the remainder, now that would be a great legacy to the country.

BBBbbbbbbbbbb,bbbbbbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeee÷see sanctuary cities, hello Megyns law, if this aul bastard can rid the world of political correctness and everthing Obama touched he will be the best President ever.

Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 11:06:05 AM
The GOP can't whine any more. No need for obstructionism. They won everything.
So they have the ball. And they can't blame anyone else if they f**k it up
They can destroy Obamacare. But will they fix healthcare?

They aren't even a united party.

The US is at a point in history where several structural crises are blowing up at the same time. Healthcare, inequality, vets, climate, economy

Lying to gain power is no help. Ask Theresa May.

The Trump euphoria will wear off. The GOP is funded by the same deplorables as the Democratic party.
It will be fascinating. Money vs the voters. Giuliani, Christie and Gingrich are Yank versions of Bojo, Davies and Gove . They have no ideas.

Bonaparte said never get involved when your enemy is making a mistake.
The Dems should get in some sofas and a big order of popcorn.





Bonaparte was an evil bastard, the gop have been eating popcorn for eight years, time to eat crow libtards, the people have spoken and rejected your elitest bullshit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
I don't know.


Hillary was a flawed, dishonest and dislikeable candidate who got parachuted into the nomination by crooks.  The first candidate in history to get a nomination nation while under an active FBI investigation.  Joe Biden or Bernie would have beaten Trump by 10 points
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
I don't know.


Hillary was a flawed, dishonest and dislikeable candidate who got parachuted into the nomination by crooks.  The first candidate in history to get a nomination nation while under an active FBI investigation.  Joe Biden or Bernie would have beaten Trump by 10 points

Trump is estimated to have been involved in around 3,500 lawsuits.

Clinton is gone now. The faux outrage over her emails won.

Now you are left with the consequences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:00:11 PM
Brian Koppelman ‏@briankoppelman Manhattan, NY
@Nate_Cohn but dude. In fairness. You have really, really built a flawed model. It was wildly inaccurate leading up to this. Heartbreaking.

Edward Luce ‏@EdwardGLuce Manhattan, NY
A plea to just ignore data people until this seismic age is over. They're only useful when it's normal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 09, 2016, 01:06:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:44:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.

People had legitimate grievances and they were poopooed as fascists,misogynists, islamophobes or homophobes by the main stream media if they dared question Hillarys fitness to serve.

But this is what you just voted for. Trump is overtly misogynistic and most likely an islamophobe.

Along with pro-Russian, anti-Mexican, anti-Global warming, anti-Iran Nuclear Treaty, anti-EU, anti-NAFTA etc, etc.

You can't blame Hillary or the media for that. If you support an extremist, don't pretend to be all hurt when you are called an extremist.

People had and have real grievances and the establishment did not listen to them

And you think it will now.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

People had real grievances in 1920s Germany as well. The establishment didn't listen then either.

Two things won this elections for Trump:

1) Russian hackers;
2) A lazy media calling it for Hillary and the ensuing complacency among voters;

I think you're missing a trick here muppet.  What won this for Trump was the Democratic Party for nominating someone as toxic as Hillary to stand against him.  If Sanders had got the nod, Trump would have taken a deserved hiding IMO.  At least Sanders could have legitimately painted himself as someone who was interested in change for those who felt aggrieved.  The issues you mentioned are secondary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 09, 2016, 01:08:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
I don't know.


Hillary was a flawed, dishonest and dislikeable candidate who got parachuted into the nomination by crooks.  The first candidate in history to get a nomination nation while under an active FBI investigation.  Joe Biden or Bernie would have beaten Trump by 10 points

Trump is estimated to be currently involved in around 3,500 lawsuits.

Clinton is gone now. The faux outrage over her emails won.

Now you are left with the consequences.

She was a disaster in every post she ever held, that beat her!

She was a hateful, spiteful bitch, that got her beaten!

She was the establishment, that got her beaten.

Did I,mention she is a hateful ****? That got her her beaten.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:09:21 PM
I don't think enough Americans would have voted for Sanders. Don't get me wrong, he would be the closest person to my way of thinking in American politics.

But this rise of overt anti-immigration feeling suggests to me that they would still have gone for Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2016, 01:10:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:44:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.

People had legitimate grievances and they were poopooed as fascists,misogynists, islamophobes or homophobes by the main stream media if they dared question Hillarys fitness to serve.

But this is what you just voted for. Trump is overtly misogynistic and most likely an islamophobe.

Along with pro-Russian, anti-Mexican, anti-Global warming, anti-Iran Nuclear Treaty, anti-EU, anti-NAFTA etc, etc.

You can't blame Hillary or the media for that. If you support an extremist, don't pretend to be all hurt when you are called an extremist.

People had and have real grievances and the establishment did not listen to them

EVERYONE has real grievances.

My question was how Trump is going to solve the health insurance issue given that that is what you referred to in the original post.

Because what was vetoed by Obama last year will do NOTHING to address it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:10:41 PM
Quote from: stew on November 09, 2016, 01:08:13 PM
She was a disaster in every post she ever held, that beat her!

She was a hateful, spiteful bitch, that got her beaten!

She was the establishment, that got her beaten.

Did I,mention she is a hateful ****? That got her her beaten.

Can you list all her posts without looking them up? All the ones you claim she was a disaster in?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 09, 2016, 01:13:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.

People had legitimate grievances and they were poopooed as fascists,misogynists, islamophobes or homophobes by the main stream media if they dared question Hillarys fitness to serve.

I think that's a key point (as it was in Brexit) - the grievances people have (in Wales/northern England/the rust belt) are real and the "establishment" did absolutely nothing to address them. So when someone came along who said they would address these grievances (albeit in fascist, racist terms which imo will do little to resolve the actual problems), the people voted for them. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 01:16:59 PM
Muppet do you ever come up for air.

The amount of know all BS you were spouting on here over the past few months based on your real life experiences in the US  (a golf vacation you took) was unreal.

Why don't you move on to the Italian referendum in December. I am sure you eat Pizza at some point, that undoubtedly makes you an expert on all things Italian.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 09, 2016, 01:17:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:10:41 PM
Quote from: stew on November 09, 2016, 01:08:13 PM
She was a disaster in every post she ever held, that beat her!

She was a hateful, spiteful bitch, that got her beaten!

She was the establishment, that got her beaten.

Did I,mention she is a hateful ****? That got her her beaten.

Can you list all her posts without looking them up? All the ones you claim she was a disaster in?

Lybia and Syria are two good examples of her was lingering, will those do?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 09, 2016, 01:13:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.

People had legitimate grievances and they were poopooed as fascists,misogynists, islamophobes or homophobes by the main stream media if they dared question Hillarys fitness to serve.

I think that's a key point (as it was in Brexit) - the grievances people have (in Wales/northern England/the rust belt) are real and the "establishment" did absolutely nothing to address them. So when someone came along who said they would address these grievances (albeit in fascist, racist terms which imo will do little to resolve the actual problems), the people voted for them.

This is the problem in a nutshell.

You can't fix stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
I don't know.


Hillary was a flawed, dishonest and dislikeable candidate who got parachuted into the nomination by crooks.  The first candidate in history to get a nomination nation while under an active FBI investigation.  Joe Biden or Bernie would have beaten Trump by 10 points

Trump is estimated to be currently involved in around 3,500 lawsuits.

Clinton is gone now. The faux outrage over her emails won.

Now you are left with the consequences.
Biden would have been a better choice. Clinton was not seen as trustworthy . Too much baggage. Insincere.
But now the GOP have to fix stuff. And they are all over the place.
They do not have the people to make it work. The Tea Party purged all the reasonable people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 09, 2016, 01:19:22 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 01:16:59 PM
Muppet do you ever come up for air.

The amount of know all BS you were spouting on here over the past few months based on your real life experiences in the US  (a golf vacation you took) was unreal.

Why don't you move on to the Italian referendum in December. I am sure you eat Pizza at some point, that undoubtedly makes you an expert on all things Italian.

The man self glossed himself right, Muppet indeed. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:20:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:09:21 PM
I don't think enough Americans would have voted for Sanders. Don't get me wrong, he would be the closest person to my way of thinking in American politics.

But this rise of overt anti-immigration feeling suggests to me that they would still have gone for Trump.
If the Dems had gone for Sanders the GOP side would have put up Bloomberg to neutralise him
I think it is a pyrrhic victory for the GOP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 09, 2016, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:20:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:09:21 PM
I don't think enough Americans would have voted for Sanders. Don't get me wrong, he would be the closest person to my way of thinking in American politics.

But this rise of overt anti-immigration feeling suggests to me that they would still have gone for Trump.
If the Dems had gone for Sanders the GOP side would have put up Bloomberg to neutralise him
I think it is a pyrrhic victory for the GOP

Its not though, he is not a Republican President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 01:16:59 PM
Muppet do you ever come up for air.

The amount of know all BS you were spouting on here over the past few months based on your real life experiences in the US  (a golf vacation you took) was unreal.

Why don't you move on to the Italian referendum in December. I am sure you eat Pizza at some point, that undoubtedly makes you an expert on all things Italian.

I never took a golf vacation, nor ever said I took a golf vacation in the US. So who is 'spouting BS'?

I said once, as an aside, that I played a round of golf in the US. I was working there at the time. This seems to be incredibly offensive to yourself and FoxCommander for some reason.

Tell me, are we to just read posts from you insulting those you disagree with or do you have any arguments of your own?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 09, 2016, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 09, 2016, 01:13:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
The people who are humping it 60 hours a week, with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half are feeling pretty good this morning.  Working people have legitimate anger and spoke with their vote yesterday

And how is their vote going to change things?

BTW, plenty of "working people" voted Dem.

People had legitimate grievances and they were poopooed as fascists,misogynists, islamophobes or homophobes by the main stream media if they dared question Hillarys fitness to serve.

I think that's a key point (as it was in Brexit) - the grievances people have (in Wales/northern England/the rust belt) are real and the "establishment" did absolutely nothing to address them. So when someone came along who said they would address these grievances (albeit in fascist, racist terms which imo will do little to resolve the actual problems), the people voted for them.

This is the problem in a nutshell.

You can't fix stupid.

This is why I think Sanders would have romped it.  Hillary said she'd sort these things out, but because they were able to paint her as a corrupt liar and in the pocket of big business, nobody believed it.  She was too establishment.  Trump got the considerable 'f you' vote in the hope that he'd actually do what he said.  The thing is, Sanders would also have been a 'f you' to the establishment and I think it, along with the fact that he came across as a decent man, would have swung it for him.   The dems shit in their own nest here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: stew on November 09, 2016, 01:19:22 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 01:16:59 PM
Muppet do you ever come up for air.

The amount of know all BS you were spouting on here over the past few months based on your real life experiences in the US  (a golf vacation you took) was unreal.

Why don't you move on to the Italian referendum in December. I am sure you eat Pizza at some point, that undoubtedly makes you an expert on all things Italian.

The man self glossed himself right, Muppet indeed. )

You hid when I pointed out your embarrassing misreading of what I said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 09, 2016, 01:28:03 PM
The "real" grievances that a large proportion of the Trump vote had and have, are rooted in a longing for an economic system that no longer exists, dismantled in large part by the Republican policies of miniscule government and repeal of the New Deal over the past 40 years.

As someone mentioned earlier, the grieving for the loss of manufacture jobs will not in anyway bring them back or roll back the tide of automation. Highly ironic the support for Trump in Michigan, given the flak Obama took from Republicans for bailing out the auto industry. Mencken's quote comes to mind.

Trump has been elected with all the tools to govern, but on an economic platform that is almost diametrically opposed to traditional Republican policy. The infrastructure spending he advocated this morning has long been blocked by Republican congress people, the tearing up of trade deals is anathema to GOP donors, and a trade war with China will be giving right wing economists heart attacks.

So what happens if he doesn't deliver? Does he hold up his hands or does he blame the "others" in society? We all know the answer. Whitey, his use of scapegoats during the campaign such as Mexicans, Muslims, the handicapped, women - it was racist, misogynist, bigoted - and to point that out is merely to acknowledge reality. How that is taken by people in the Rust Belt who supported those statements is up to them - but their "feelings" shouldn't Trump reality. However, the false equivalency of the media meant that those statements were given the same import as the use of an email server that, despite two FBI investigations, yielded no indictments.

As for MSM not covering the Trump constituency correctly - well, both before the debates began, when Hillary's post-convention bump was dissipating, and after the Comey letter, when Trump's figures rose - I saw various items and articles on MSNBC, CNN, ABC, the NYT, and the Washington Post all covering the "forgotten men and women" of White America. I would pose the opposite point - that this election is a direct result of pandering to their concerns above all others, because no other constituency or their leader would ever have been allowed get away with the rhetoric that they employed during this campaign.

So, once again, as a world we are at the mercy of an election we could not vote in.

At a glance, my top concerns would be

1. Economic - the markets are going to tank, and though that is not Trumps fault per se, I think the odds of the world slipping back into Recession are very high for early next year.
2. Climate change - the world cannot afford four years of climate denial at the heart of the American administration. If Trump rips up the accord with China, Florida may not be such a factor in future elections - unless voting with a scuba tank is allowed.
3. Security - unless America stands firm on its commitments to NATO, the "green men" will soon be seen in the Baltic countryside. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania all shed blood to throw off the yoke of the Soviets - unless the Pax Americana holds, they will be shedding more.

To all who live in the US, whether you supported Trump or Hillary, good luck to you - I think it is going to be a cold place for immigrants now, and I'm sure, like a lot of us, you know people who may be there illegally. I hope it works out for them and for you.

But as I was walking in to work, in central Dublin this morning, all I could hear from people as I passed by, was discussion of this election. I've never seen such interest and consternation at an American election. The world is a scarier place this morning - you guys are in the front line, and I hope things don't go as bad as logic tells me it will. (although logic took a battering last night)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: leenie on November 09, 2016, 01:40:16 PM
. knackered , that's the last time I stay up all night only for a shite ending
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2016, 01:43:08 PM
Quote from: leenie on November 09, 2016, 01:40:16 PM
. knackered , that's the last time I stay up all night only for a shite ending
Still talking about the election?  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:43:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 01:16:59 PM
Muppet do you ever come up for air.

The amount of know all BS you were spouting on here over the past few months based on your real life experiences in the US  (a golf vacation you took) was unreal.

Why don't you move on to the Italian referendum in December. I am sure you eat Pizza at some point, that undoubtedly makes you an expert on all things Italian.



I never took a golf vacation, nor ever said I took a golf vacation in the US. So who is 'spouting BS'?

I said once, as an aside, that I played a round of golf in the US. I was working there at the time. This seems to be incredibly offensive to yourself and FoxCommander for some reason.

Tell me, are we to just read posts from you insulting those you disagree with or do you have any arguments of your own?

Muppet - maybe take the hint that you're not as all-knowing as you think and just shut up a bit more with your crackpot theories.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 01:46:42 PM
I wonder will the Scots claim him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballinaman on November 09, 2016, 01:51:20 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 09, 2016, 01:28:03 PM

3. Security - unless America stands firm on its commitments to NATO, the "green men" will soon be seen in the Baltic countryside. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania all shed blood to throw off the yoke of the Soviets - unless the Pax Americana holds, they will be shedding more.

Agree. I'd advise people to google " Suwalki gap". We might be hearing more about it.
Ps, don't worry it's safe for work, not some Russian wan...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:51:59 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 08:34:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

No need. You already know the answer.
You're not replying to my last post. For the fourth time, if you're not a troll, or even if you are, please answer the question.

Listen doll, this isn't The Hague. We both know the answer to your question so you can quit it.
Sixth time. I don't know the answer as to why you do things. Please tell me. Troll rating up with Fearon now.

Aren't you the little demanding Debbie. Keep going. Let's see if we can make it to 100 requests.

otherwise type in these 2 words into google search engine and read the results.
Obama Kenya



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 01:52:54 PM
1. Economic - the markets are going to tank, and though that is not Trumps fault per se, I think the odds of the world slipping back into Recession are very high for early next year.

Markets will not tank because of Trump. They are fully valued in the US right now, so last 5-7% one could argue has been speculation, and also based on not a whole lot of options .i.e. extremely low interest rates.

2. Climate change - the world cannot afford four years of climate denial at the heart of the American administration. If Trump rips up the accord with China, Florida may not be such a factor in future elections - unless voting with a scuba tank is allowed.

Not going to comment on climate change as I will not pretend I know enough. I do know that there is a incredible amount of oil and gas that has been discovered in a cost efficient manner in the US over the past decade due to horizontal fracking. As a result the US should not need any imports and therefore should have less of a vested interest in what goes on in the middle East.

3. Security - unless America stands firm on its commitments to NATO, the "green men" will soon be seen in the Baltic
countryside. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania all shed blood to throw off the yoke of the Soviets - unless the Pax Americana holds, they will be shedding more.

A huge challenge no doubt again, as my 17 year old daughter asked , why does the US have troops in other countries and why does it have to defend them. Tough one to answer. It is a truly complex world we live in no doubt about that.

From a politician standpoint, I came to this country a long time ago as a democrat, but over time became a republican.

To me a republican means someone who works hard, becomes successful, encourages the entrepreneurial spirit, helps others who are less fortunate and shows respect to others and others values. A lot of the other stuff I am not overly bothered by.
That is my two cents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:51:59 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 08:34:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

No need. You already know the answer.
You're not replying to my last post. For the fourth time, if you're not a troll, or even if you are, please answer the question.

Listen doll, this isn't The Hague. We both know the answer to your question so you can quit it.
Sixth time. I don't know the answer as to why you do things. Please tell me. Troll rating up with Fearon now.

Aren't you the little demanding Debbie. Keep going. Let's see if we can make it to 100 requests.

otherwise type in these 2 words into google search engine and read the results.
Obama Kenya
Debbie? Doll?

I can search it. I asked why YOU use it. It couldn't be simpler.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:57:46 PM
The US economy is banjaxed. The people didn't just reject the Dems.  They also rejected the RNC.
Trump was all loved up with Reince Priebus but I don't think the relationship is very solid.
It is very complicated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHaBstZQ40

There are no easy answers. The notion of a billionaire draining a swamp of corruption is very American as well.
It's a long way from Atticus Finch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:59:02 PM
For the likes of j70, Muppet, Eamon, Dec and any of the Clinton cheerleaders I say bad luck. We all hope President Trump will soften his stances on some items (not illegal immigration though) and really Make America Great again after the last 8 disastrous years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: leenie on November 09, 2016, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:59:02 PM
For the likes of j70, Muppet, Eamon, Dec and any of the Clinton cheerleaders I say bad luck. We all hope President Trump will soften his stances on some items (not illegal immigration though) and really Make America Great again after the last 8 disastrous years.

You haven't answered Esmeralda's question ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:06:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
I don't know.


Hillary was a flawed, dishonest and dislikeable candidate who got parachuted into the nomination by crooks.  The first candidate in history to get a nomination nation while under an active FBI investigation.  Joe Biden or Bernie would have beaten Trump by 10 points

Trump is estimated to have been involved in around 3,500 lawsuits.

Clinton is gone now. The faux outrage over her emails won.

Now you are left with the consequences.

Again...false equivalence on your part

Suing people and being sued is part of the real estate business over here. I don't know one real estate developer or building contractor who hasn't been involved in a lawsuit or bankruptcy or some sort.


Multiply that by the thousands of projects Trump has been involved in and I'm surprised the number isn't bigger


I have immediate family members....i.e. My Father in Law who has been a commercial real estate developer his whole life so I know a thing or two about this matter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 02:09:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:51:59 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 08:34:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

No need. You already know the answer.
You're not replying to my last post. For the fourth time, if you're not a troll, or even if you are, please answer the question.

Listen doll, this isn't The Hague. We both know the answer to your question so you can quit it.
Sixth time. I don't know the answer as to why you do things. Please tell me. Troll rating up with Fearon now.

Aren't you the little demanding Debbie. Keep going. Let's see if we can make it to 100 requests.

otherwise type in these 2 words into google search engine and read the results.
Obama Kenya
Debbie? Doll?

I can search it. I asked why YOU use it. It couldn't be simpler.

Because I can.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:43:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 01:16:59 PM
Muppet do you ever come up for air.

The amount of know all BS you were spouting on here over the past few months based on your real life experiences in the US  (a golf vacation you took) was unreal.

Why don't you move on to the Italian referendum in December. I am sure you eat Pizza at some point, that undoubtedly makes you an expert on all things Italian.



I never took a golf vacation, nor ever said I took a golf vacation in the US. So who is 'spouting BS'?

I said once, as an aside, that I played a round of golf in the US. I was working there at the time. This seems to be incredibly offensive to yourself and FoxCommander for some reason.

Tell me, are we to just read posts from you insulting those you disagree with or do you have any arguments of your own?

Muppet - maybe take the hint that you're not as all-knowing as you think and just shut up a bit more with your crackpot theories.

Do you post anything other than insults?

Have you anything else to contribute?

Anything at all?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:11:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:06:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
I don't know.


Hillary was a flawed, dishonest and dislikeable candidate who got parachuted into the nomination by crooks.  The first candidate in history to get a nomination nation while under an active FBI investigation.  Joe Biden or Bernie would have beaten Trump by 10 points

Trump is estimated to have been involved in around 3,500 lawsuits.

Clinton is gone now. The faux outrage over her emails won.

Now you are left with the consequences.

Again...false equivalence on your part

Suing people and being sued is part of the real estate business over here. I don't know one real estate developer or building contractor who hasn't been involved in a lawsuit or bankruptcy or some sort.


Multiply that by the thousands of projects Trump has been involved in and I'm surprised the number isn't bigger


I have immediate family members....i.e. My Father in Law who has been a commercial real estate developer his whole life so I know a thing or two about this matter

Did your father in law set up a fake University?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 02:11:33 PM
(https://scontent-mia1-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14910370_10153451002292614_2263402430413587500_n.jpg?oh=8e5e636935fe5aa7ff30e62a501e16b8&oe=58D06497)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:12:18 PM
I presume that is the end of the Clintons and the Foundation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOFeSc_bfIA
William J Clinton was elected in 1992
AFAIK most of the parties that were in power in the run up to 2000 are out of power. Labour, SDP in Germany, Dems, FF . It was too good to believe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5j7jjhm4M
Poor Hillary Rodham got her chance when the bill arrived

Maybe the Libyan jinns won the election for Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:43:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 01:16:59 PM
Muppet do you ever come up for air.

The amount of know all BS you were spouting on here over the past few months based on your real life experiences in the US  (a golf vacation you took) was unreal.

Why don't you move on to the Italian referendum in December. I am sure you eat Pizza at some point, that undoubtedly makes you an expert on all things Italian.



I never took a golf vacation, nor ever said I took a golf vacation in the US. So who is 'spouting BS'?

I said once, as an aside, that I played a round of golf in the US. I was working there at the time. This seems to be incredibly offensive to yourself and FoxCommander for some reason.

Tell me, are we to just read posts from you insulting those you disagree with or do you have any arguments of your own?

Muppet - maybe take the hint that you're not as all-knowing as you think and just shut up a bit more with your crackpot theories.

Do you post anything other than insults?

Have you anything else to contribute?

Anything at all?

I know you're feeling a little delicate today so I'll forgive you this once. But just maybe less of the know-it-all stuff in future. We could be pals if you did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 09, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
QuoteWe all hope President Trump will soften his stances on some items

You mean he'll stop doing this??

https://www.facebook.com/paddypower/videos/10154736797769914/ (https://www.facebook.com/paddypower/videos/10154736797769914/)


Here's a couple of message's I got from friends and relations working in New England this morning- one is a lawyer and another a teacher in the public school system. Their fear and concerns are genuine.

Thanks very much for your message. I'm shell-shocked and frightened. I really did not foresee a Trump victory. How could voters be so stupid? It seems as if they deliberately chose to be uninformed. The entire campaign had a surreal feeling. Trump's supporters followed him the way people follow cult leaders; I'm very worried about the future of the entire world. The United States was founded in opposition to tyranny, and now Americans are embracing it. xxxx's husband is from Mexico, where most of his extended family lives. I cannot imagine how they feel.... People here at school are crying.  We held an emergency faculty meeting at 6:45 to figure out how to support the kids, many of whom showed signs of election stress beforehand....This feels like a nightmare.

Thank you for calling. I couldn't talk just then. I'm not sure I can now, but already I'm fielding questions from clients terrified of losing their health care. And my young, scared employees. I don't know how to find the words right now.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:15:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:11:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:06:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
I don't know.


Hillary was a flawed, dishonest and dislikeable candidate who got parachuted into the nomination by crooks.  The first candidate in history to get a nomination nation while under an active FBI investigation.  Joe Biden or Bernie would have beaten Trump by 10 points

Trump is estimated to have been involved in around 3,500 lawsuits.

Clinton is gone now. The faux outrage over her emails won.

Now you are left with the consequences.

Again...false equivalence on your part

Suing people and being sued is part of the real estate business over here. I don't know one real estate developer or building contractor who hasn't been involved in a lawsuit or bankruptcy or some sort.


Multiply that by the thousands of projects Trump has been involved in and I'm surprised the number isn't bigger


I have immediate family members....i.e. My Father in Law who has been a commercial real estate developer his whole life so I know a thing or two about this matter

Did your father in law set up a fake University?

No, but Bill Clinton took millions from an equally fake university so the Dems couldn't use that against Trump in the election. Clinton baggage led to some of Trumps worst skeletons becoming non issues during the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:43:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 09, 2016, 01:16:59 PM
Muppet do you ever come up for air.

The amount of know all BS you were spouting on here over the past few months based on your real life experiences in the US  (a golf vacation you took) was unreal.

Why don't you move on to the Italian referendum in December. I am sure you eat Pizza at some point, that undoubtedly makes you an expert on all things Italian.



I never took a golf vacation, nor ever said I took a golf vacation in the US. So who is 'spouting BS'?

I said once, as an aside, that I played a round of golf in the US. I was working there at the time. This seems to be incredibly offensive to yourself and FoxCommander for some reason.

Tell me, are we to just read posts from you insulting those you disagree with or do you have any arguments of your own?

Muppet - maybe take the hint that you're not as all-knowing as you think and just shut up a bit more with your crackpot theories.

Do you post anything other than insults?

Have you anything else to contribute?

Anything at all?

I know you're feeling a little delicate today so I'll forgive you this once. But just maybe less of the know-it-all stuff in future. We could be pals if you did.

I have no issue about being pals with anyone.

But you should try to engage on issues, rather than hide behind insults all the time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2016, 02:17:42 PM
Brenda Power was on Newstalk just now claiming that Hillary lost because she was a woman. There was someone on RTE this morning beating same drum.
Jesus some people over here still don't get it. They expect 'powerful symbolism' to be the driver of everything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 02:09:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:51:59 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 08:34:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

No need. You already know the answer.
You're not replying to my last post. For the fourth time, if you're not a troll, or even if you are, please answer the question.

Listen doll, this isn't The Hague. We both know the answer to your question so you can quit it.
Sixth time. I don't know the answer as to why you do things. Please tell me. Troll rating up with Fearon now.

Aren't you the little demanding Debbie. Keep going. Let's see if we can make it to 100 requests.

otherwise type in these 2 words into google search engine and read the results.
Obama Kenya
Debbie? Doll?

I can search it. I asked why YOU use it. It couldn't be simpler.

Because I can.

How mature. Did some of the P4s teach you that in the playground yesterday?

You have nothing to back up your statement in other words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:19:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:15:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:11:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:06:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
I don't know.


Hillary was a flawed, dishonest and dislikeable candidate who got parachuted into the nomination by crooks.  The first candidate in history to get a nomination nation while under an active FBI investigation.  Joe Biden or Bernie would have beaten Trump by 10 points

Trump is estimated to have been involved in around 3,500 lawsuits.

Clinton is gone now. The faux outrage over her emails won.

Now you are left with the consequences.

Again...false equivalence on your part

Suing people and being sued is part of the real estate business over here. I don't know one real estate developer or building contractor who hasn't been involved in a lawsuit or bankruptcy or some sort.


Multiply that by the thousands of projects Trump has been involved in and I'm surprised the number isn't bigger


I have immediate family members....i.e. My Father in Law who has been a commercial real estate developer his whole life so I know a thing or two about this matter

Did your father in law set up a fake University?

No, but Bill Clinton took millions from an equally fake university so the Dems couldn't use that against Trump in the election. Clinton baggage led to some of Trumps worst skeletons becoming non issues during the election

Clinton is gone. Stick to the point.

You accused me about false equivalence regarding Trump's lawsuits, using your father in law as a comparison and when I brought up the massive, massive, elephant in the room (if he looses and of the class actions you have just elected a fraud) you try to hide behind Clinton.

Forget the Clintons. They lost.

We are now left with Trump and his catalogue of issues. Time to face facts Whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: leenie on November 09, 2016, 02:29:46 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 02:09:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 01:51:59 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 08:34:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
foxcommaner, why do you call the current President "The Kenya" rather than using his real name?

kenyaN

Have you heard of things called "maps"?
Apologies, I meant to type Kenyan. I've also heard of maps but I'm not sure what they become when you put "" around the word.

Now that I've answered your question, you might answer mine?

No need. You already know the answer.
You're not replying to my last post. For the fourth time, if you're not a troll, or even if you are, please answer the question.

Listen doll, this isn't The Hague. We both know the answer to your question so you can quit it.
Sixth time. I don't know the answer as to why you do things. Please tell me. Troll rating up with Fearon now.

Aren't you the little demanding Debbie. Keep going. Let's see if we can make it to 100 requests.

otherwise type in these 2 words into google search engine and read the results.
Obama Kenya
Debbie? Doll?

I can search it. I asked why YOU use it. It couldn't be simpler.

Because I can.

How mature. Did some of the P4s teach you that in the playground yesterday?

You have nothing to back up your statement in other words.


Because is not an answer , it is a conjunction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:31:39 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14947803_10209691253891839_7498834479002524316_n.jpg?oh=622b0090866f4d90e44ec3ea287d1091&oe=58C82EDB)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 09, 2016, 02:33:44 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 09, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
QuoteWe all hope President Trump will soften his stances on some items

You mean he'll stop doing this??

https://www.facebook.com/paddypower/videos/10154736797769914/ (https://www.facebook.com/paddypower/videos/10154736797769914/)


Here's a couple of message's I got from friends and relations working in New England this morning- one is a lawyer and another a teacher in the public school system. Their fear and concerns are genuine.

Thanks very much for your message. I'm shell-shocked and frightened. I really did not foresee a Trump victory. How could voters be so stupid? It seems as if they deliberately chose to be uninformed. The entire campaign had a surreal feeling. Trump's supporters followed him the way people follow cult leaders; I'm very worried about the future of the entire world. The United States was founded in opposition to tyranny, and now Americans are embracing it. xxxx's husband is from Mexico, where most of his extended family lives. I cannot imagine how they feel.... People here at school are crying.  We held an emergency faculty meeting at 6:45 to figure out how to support the kids, many of whom showed signs of election stress beforehand....This feels like a nightmare.

Thank you for calling. I couldn't talk just then. I'm not sure I can now, but already I'm fielding questions from clients terrified of losing their health care. And my young, scared employees. I don't know how to find the words right now.


The poor little lambs!

Mealey mouthed liberals worrying because big bad Donald is coming to town is laughable, these sheep deserve what they think is coming , Clinton is a repugnant career opportunist who did not have the class to thank those in person who were out there actively campaigning for her, if that does not tell you that she is all for herself you are an idiot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:34:18 PM
Stew was right
He was justified

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPjggN-KByI

the US is bound for mu mu land
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:36:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:19:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:15:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:11:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:06:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
I don't know.


Hillary was a flawed, dishonest and dislikeable candidate who got parachuted into the nomination by crooks.  The first candidate in history to get a nomination nation while under an active FBI investigation.  Joe Biden or Bernie would have beaten Trump by 10 points

Trump is estimated to have been involved in around 3,500 lawsuits.

Clinton is gone now. The faux outrage over her emails won.

Now you are left with the consequences.

Again...false equivalence on your part

Suing people and being sued is part of the real estate business over here. I don't know one real estate developer or building contractor who hasn't been involved in a lawsuit or bankruptcy or some sort.


Multiply that by the thousands of projects Trump has been involved in and I'm surprised the number isn't bigger


I have immediate family members....i.e. My Father in Law who has been a commercial real estate developer his whole life so I know a thing or two about this matter

Did your father in law set up a fake University?

No, but Bill Clinton took millions from an equally fake university so the Dems couldn't use that against Trump in the election. Clinton baggage led to some of Trumps worst skeletons becoming non issues during the election

Clinton is gone. Stick to the point.

You accused me about false equivalence regarding Trump's lawsuits, using your father in law as a comparison and when I brought up the massive, massive, elephant in the room (if he looses and of the class actions you have just elected a fraud) you try to hide behind Clinton.

Forget the Clintons. They lost.

We are now left with Trump and his catalogue of issues. Time to face facts Whitey.

Hi m not a Trump supporter...never was never will be

Dems tried to rig this with the main stream media in cahoots with them

You can stick your head in the sand all you like, but the Clintons are a
seriously flawed brand and many people have seen through them this election cycle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 02:36:48 PM
Whereas there's a small chance that Fearon might be mad enough not to be a troll I think we can 100% be sure that foxcommander is one.

Would it not be best for the board as a whole if everyone just ignored him/her?

Far be it from me to tell people who to debate with but I'd like to hear reasons for doing so with this individual.

Threads are being ruined and it's fairly tiresome. Maybe seafoid could start a new thread on this subject.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:40:55 PM
The GOP is 3 parties. Trumpers, old fashioned conservatives and Kochsuckers. They didn't expect to win this election. they didn't expect total control.
The tea party purged all the moderates. The Trumpers hate the Kochsuckers. They have no policies.
It's going to be the Jeremy Kyle show in DC.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on November 09, 2016, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 02:36:48 PM
Whereas there's a small chance that Fearon might be mad enough not to be a troll I think we can 100% be sure that foxcommander is one.

Would it not be best for the board as a whole if everyone just ignored him/her?

Far be it from me to tell people who to debate with but I'd like to hear reasons for doing so with this individual.

Threads are being ruined and it's fairly tiresome. Maybe seafoid could start a new thread on this subject.

Agreed, this board, like the rest of the world, has gone to shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:36:12 PM
Hi m not a Trump supporter...never was never will be

Dems tried to rig this with the main stream media in cahoots with them

You can stick your head in the sand all you like, but the Clintons are a
seriously flawed brand and many people have seen through them this election cycle

The Clintons are gone.

You need to move on to the new reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 02:45:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 02:36:48 PM
Whereas there's a small chance that Fearon might be mad enough not to be a troll I think we can 100% be sure that foxcommander is one.

Would it not be best for the board as a whole if everyone just ignored him/her?

Far be it from me to tell people who to debate with but I'd like to hear reasons for doing so with this individual.

Threads are being ruined and it's fairly tiresome. Maybe seafoid could start a new thread on this subject.

+1, but like replying to TF as someone said in another thread, you start by saying 'I really shoukdn't, but...'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:36:12 PM
Hi m not a Trump supporter...never was never will be

Dems tried to rig this with the main stream media in cahoots with them

You can stick your head in the sand all you like, but the Clintons are a
seriously flawed brand and many people have seen through them this election cycle

The Clintons are gone.

You need to move on to the new reality.

This was a vote against Hillary as much as it was a vote for Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:51:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:36:12 PM
Hi m not a Trump supporter...never was never will be

Dems tried to rig this with the main stream media in cahoots with them

You can stick your head in the sand all you like, but the Clintons are a
seriously flawed brand and many people have seen through them this election cycle

The Clintons are gone.

You need to move on to the new reality.

This was a vote against Hillary as much as it was a vote for Trump

This has been my point all along.

People were obsessed with keeping her out, and completely ignored what they were putting in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:54:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:51:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:36:12 PM
Hi m not a Trump supporter...never was never will be

Dems tried to rig this with the main stream media in cahoots with them

You can stick your head in the sand all you like, but the Clintons are a
seriously flawed brand and many people have seen through them this election cycle

The Clintons are gone.

You need to move on to the new reality.

This was a vote against Hillary as much as it was a vote for Trump

This has been my point all along.

People were obsessed with keeping her out, and completely ignored what they were putting in.

They were obsessed with keeping her out for good reasons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 02:55:17 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-07/establishment-will-get-its-fk-you-no-matter-who-wins

For instance, There are excellent arguments for a "time-out" from immigration. Congress acted on that in 1925, after a half-century flood of immigration needed to man the factories of the early 20th century. The consensus on that policy change was arrived at with minimal rancor — and just in time, by the way, for the Great Depression, when manufacturing employment crashed. We're also in for a collapse of activity, only this time it won't be the few remaining factory workers. It'll be everyone from the McDonalds counter jockeys to the bond packagers of Goldman Sachs.
The establishment will get its "f**k you" anyway. I do go along with the argument advanced by others that it would probably be better for Hillary to win, because that way the right people (the gang already in power) will be blamed for the descent into the maelstrom and will be expeditiously swept away.
Just about anything may rise up across America after that — the true corn-pone Nazi who succeeds Trump in the meshuggeneh branch of conservative politics... a second civil war... or a World Made By Hand. I detect a general awareness that the country must pass through some epic ordeal to straighten itself out. Well, here it is, just in time or the holidays.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:05:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:54:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:51:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2016, 02:36:12 PM
Hi m not a Trump supporter...never was never will be

Dems tried to rig this with the main stream media in cahoots with them

You can stick your head in the sand all you like, but the Clintons are a
seriously flawed brand and many people have seen through them this election cycle

The Clintons are gone.

You need to move on to the new reality.

This was a vote against Hillary as much as it was a vote for Trump

This has been my point all along.

People were obsessed with keeping her out, and completely ignored what they were putting in.

They were obsessed with keeping her out for good reasons.

You are still obsessed with what you kept out. She lost. The Clintons are gone.

It is time to face your new reality.

Welcome to the United Trumps of America.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 09, 2016, 03:08:46 PM

Joemamas

this is your victory, you and people like you voted in droves in this election.

you have experienced your america and you have watched your news and you have discussed with your friends and you are a decent human being.

you made your choice.

I have said for many years that the american tax and electoral system is responsible for the mess this country has got itself into. The creaking infrastructure, the broken healthcare system, the education for the rich only, the failed benefit system are all a result of tax breaks for the very richest americans. usually I would break down your post, clarify, ask questions make points but I can't right now.

The very simple fact is that a majority of americans believe in their heart that Hillary Clinton is a crook, that they are getting screwed by the system and that barring no other options Donald Trump is the man to fix it.

They believe the earth is 4000 years old
They believe building a wall will keep america safe
They believe that man lived with Dinosaurs
They believe its just locker room talk
They believe their manufacturing jobs are going to come back
They believe their daughters have a bright future
They believe Americans create jobs but that foreigners take them
They believe their sons are getting the right message
They believe that China is screwing them
They believe getting rid of illegal immigrants is not only possible but will help their country
They believe the US is an equal opportunity country
They believe in the police
They believe Roe vs Wade will be repealed
They believe there should be more military spending
They believe US Agricultural policies are there to protect poor farmers
They believe American forces should not be policing the world
They believe that they will be the next Bill Gates
They believe liberals are to blame
They believe the trade deals are screwing them
They believe they can retire happily
They believe they know a lot more than the experts
They believe that America is the greatest country in the world
They believe their vote counts

Turns out they were right about one thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:09:35 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 02:36:48 PM
Whereas there's a small chance that Fearon might be mad enough not to be a troll I think we can 100% be sure that foxcommander is one.

Would it not be best for the board as a whole if everyone just ignored him/her?

Far be it from me to tell people who to debate with but I'd like to hear reasons for doing so with this individual.

Threads are being ruined and it's fairly tiresome. Maybe seafoid could start a new thread on this subject.

Dry your eyes love.
I've already had the debate about it on here. I don't have to answer questions on demand.
I have my thoughts on the current president and I express it. That's not trolling.
If anything you're trying to pick a fight with me and get pissed that i'm not engaging.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 03:11:32 PM
Couple of great posts on here from easytiger and heganboy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:09:35 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 02:36:48 PM
Whereas there's a small chance that Fearon might be mad enough not to be a troll I think we can 100% be sure that foxcommander is one.

Would it not be best for the board as a whole if everyone just ignored him/her?

Far be it from me to tell people who to debate with but I'd like to hear reasons for doing so with this individual.

Threads are being ruined and it's fairly tiresome. Maybe seafoid could start a new thread on this subject.

Dry your eyes love.
I've already had the debate about it on here. I don't have to answer questions on demand.
I have my thoughts on the current president and I express it. That's not trolling.
If anything you're trying to pick a fight with me and get pissed that i'm not engaging.
You don't have to do anything. But anyone with a belief in what they say could've answered the question in a fraction of the characters that you've already used to reply to me.

The invitation still stands. And please stop calling me names. I can't imagine it impresses anyone.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 03:14:17 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 09, 2016, 03:08:46 PM

Joemamas

this is your victory, you and people like you voted in droves in this election.

you have experienced your america and you have watched your news and you have discussed with your friends and you are a decent human being.

you made your choice.

I have said for many years that the american tax and electoral system is responsible for the mess this country has got itself into. The creaking infrastructure, the broken healthcare system, the education for the rich only, the failed benefit system are all a result of tax breaks for the very richest americans. usually I would break down your post, clarify, ask questions make points but I can't right now.

The very simple fact is that a majority of americans believe in their heart that Hillary Clinton is a crook, that they are getting screwed by the system and that barring no other options Donald Trump is the man to fix it.

They believe the earth is 4000 years old
They believe building a wall will keep america safe
They believe that man lived with Dinosaurs
They believe its just locker room talk
They believe their manufacturing jobs are going to come back
They believe their daughters have a bright future
They believe Americans create jobs but that foreigners take them
They believe their sons are getting the right message
They believe that China is screwing them
They believe getting rid of illegal immigrants is not only possible but will help their country
They believe the US is an equal opportunity country
They believe in the police
They believe Roe vs Wade will be repealed
They believe there should be more military spending
They believe US Agricultural policies are there to protect poor farmers
They believe American forces should not be policing the world
They believe that they will be the next Bill Gates
They believe liberals are to blame
They believe the trade deals are screwing them
They believe they can retire happily
They believe they know a lot more than the experts
They believe that America is the greatest country in the world
They believe their vote counts

Turns out they were right about one thing
I think I heard that Clinton actually received more votes than Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 09, 2016, 03:16:07 PM
Gender Politics has came on a bagful tho, hasn't been mentioned too much that an opportunity to elect a 1st female President has passed - pretty much unnoticed in the debris.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
And to think Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting earlier this year


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 09, 2016, 03:48:34 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 09, 2016, 03:14:17 PM
I think I heard that Clinton actually received more votes than Trump.

They haven't finished counting all the votes yet but Clinton is up by about 0.2% of the vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:59:53 PM
I see Al Sharpton and Whoopi Goldberg promised to leave the USA if Trump won. I hope they stick to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2016, 04:01:05 PM
FFS - now he's going to abolish the J1.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 04:03:39 PM
I think it's very sad. The US is not in a good way after 36 years of trickle up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 04:08:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
And to think Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting earlier this year
Plámás and a reverse ferret
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
And to think Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting earlier this year

That was the UK. And it was because of a petition to ban him.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 09, 2016, 04:56:20 PM
QuoteThe poor little lambs!

Mealey mouthed liberals worrying because big bad Donald is coming to town is laughable, these sheep deserve what they think is coming

Thanks for the considered response stew. Said lawyer in my message is of middle eastern parentage and in the last 3 weeks has been followed on numerous occasions on a public road in Boston and called a sand jockey and nigger bitch and go back home we don't want you here. Has reported it to the police but guess what - no response.
A friend's mexican restaurant in Mass was picketed by trump supporters saying we don't want you here and chanting you're going to pay for the wall and again the police authorities refused to act on their complaints. 
So I think they have good reason to be concerned don't you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 05:09:18 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 09, 2016, 04:56:20 PM
QuoteThe poor little lambs!

Mealey mouthed liberals worrying because big bad Donald is coming to town is laughable, these sheep deserve what they think is coming

Thanks for the considered response stew. Said lawyer in my message is of middle eastern parentage and in the last 3 weeks has been followed on numerous occasions on a public road in Boston and called a sand jockey and nigger bitch and go back home we don't want you here. Has reported it to the police but guess what - no response.
A friend's mexican restaurant in Mass was picketed by trump supporters saying we don't want you here and chanting you're going to pay for the wall and again the police authorities refused to act on their complaints. 
So I think they have good reason to be concerned don't you?
Jews are getting a lot of abuse too. #charming
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 05:17:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 05:09:18 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 09, 2016, 04:56:20 PM
QuoteThe poor little lambs!

Mealey mouthed liberals worrying because big bad Donald is coming to town is laughable, these sheep deserve what they think is coming

Thanks for the considered response stew. Said lawyer in my message is of middle eastern parentage and in the last 3 weeks has been followed on numerous occasions on a public road in Boston and called a sand jockey and nigger bitch and go back home we don't want you here. Has reported it to the police but guess what - no response.
A friend's mexican restaurant in Mass was picketed by trump supporters saying we don't want you here and chanting you're going to pay for the wall and again the police authorities refused to act on their complaints. 
So I think they have good reason to be concerned don't you?
Jews are getting a lot of abuse too. #charming

Just like the UK Hate Crimes will sky rocket... but she's not in so it's all OK we'll have our Country back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
And to think Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting earlier this year

That was the UK. And it was because of a petition to ban him.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/)

It was Richard Boyd Barrett who was making noises about a ban.
Whats also worse is that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail publically backed Hillary's campaign and snubbed Trump. Not a good policy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tnaiste-tds-to-fly-to-us-for-democrats-convention-34908788.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 05:30:48 PM
A great line there... "The Divided States of America" very true!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1iJhaWIAAO3KR.jpg:large)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 05:31:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
And to think Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting earlier this year

That was the UK. And it was because of a petition to ban him.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/)

It was Richard Boyd Barrett who was making noises about a ban.
Whats also worse is that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail publically backed Hillary's campaign and snubbed Trump. Not a good policy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tnaiste-tds-to-fly-to-us-for-democrats-convention-34908788.html

Show us where 'Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump'.

One clown making 'noises' is hardly the same thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 09, 2016, 05:34:16 PM
Mexican newspaper headline of the day.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1Mf8NUsAAJg7N?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 05:49:15 PM
Watching the uber liberals shit themselves is almost worth the uncertainty.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 05:31:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
And to think Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting earlier this year

That was the UK. And it was because of a petition to ban him.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/)

It was Richard Boyd Barrett who was making noises about a ban.
Whats also worse is that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail publically backed Hillary's campaign and snubbed Trump. Not a good policy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tnaiste-tds-to-fly-to-us-for-democrats-convention-34908788.html

Show us where 'Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump'.

One clown making 'noises' is hardly the same thing.

Here: http://fusion.net/story/255400/ireland-trump-ban-petition/


Enda said he'd meet him but give him an earful about his stances. Like Enda can take someone down with his quick wit...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 05:55:48 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2016, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2016, 11:49:21 AM
While no fan of Trump, the left-wing, pc media over here made little attempt to be objective.
There wasn't much delving into why people were supporting Trump, apart from them being uneducated, rednecks and racists.

If you looked a little bit, which you obviously didn't, there was a ton of coverage about what was motivating voters across the US, and none more so than about what was happening in places like Ohio, Michigan and West Virginia than anywhere else.
Incorrect. The majority of British and Irish media coverage painted Trump supporters in an unflattering light.
Far more vox pops with nut jobs at rallies than discussions with real voters.
Stuff like rust belt and blue collar were  namechecked but rarely quantified.
There's a huge difference between objective fact and bias.

It's an objective fact that Trump, along with a significant proportion of his support, are racist, xenophobic, misogynist, certainly those three, and then whatever you're having yourself.

Reporting objective fact is not bias, it's reporting objective fact.

Trump. Brexiteers and the whole populist far-right movement worldwide pride themselves on "telling it like it is" (their words).

Yet when it is genuinely "told as it is", they're the first to complain, hiding behind a sort of straw man version of the political correctness that they claim to hate to try and protect themselves from these objective facts.

Those that delight in giving offence in such a proudly "politically incorrect" manner are often the very same people that take offence most easily.

Other non-racial issues such as trade which motivated Trump's support were comprehensively covered. This is also objective fact. In an utter shit show of a campaign, light on policy discussion, this was the policy issue that was discussed and covered by the media the most.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: an léirmheastóir on November 09, 2016, 05:56:15 PM
So I don't pretend to know a lot about American politics especially now after the last 18 months goings on but I can't understand why so many people state side are horrified at the thought of trump getting the president gig and equally horrified at the thought of Hillary getting it. There were 12 republican candidates at the start and 2 democrats so obviously the candidate with the highest approval rating within each camp got chosen. I guess my question is there were 5 candidates on the ballot paper yesterday why if so many people were disillusioned with either of the big two did they not pick one of the other 3 as a protest vote. They still had their other candidates to vote for in the senate and I guess that's the more important vote. Maybe it's not possible to vote for say a democratic senator and say the lady who stood for the greens in the presidential race. Someone enlighten me please 🙈
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 06:08:26 PM
Globalisation is dead, and white supremacy has triumphed
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/globalisation-dead-white-supremacy-trump-neoliberal
Paul Mason
Trump's victory is a betrayal of ethnic minorities and women. Progressives must direct their energies to building an alternative to the failed neoliberal model

'Before we agonise about the racial betrayal white America committed last night, we must understand the gender betrayal runs deeper.' Wednesday 9 November 2016 14.17 GMT


"I
sit in one of the dives ... uncertain and afraid," wrote WH Auden, in the days before war broke out in 1939. Tonight it's the entire leftwing, humanist and liberal world's turn to sit in its modern dives – coffee bars staffed by global, precarious, young people – and face it. Globalisation is dead. The American superpower will die.

Donald Trump has won the presidency – not because of the "white working class", but because millions of middle-class and educated US citizens reached into their soul and found there, after all its conceits were stripped away, a grinning white supremacist. Plus untapped reserves of misogyny.

The academic debate about what's driving the ultra-right surge in liberal democracies – migration or economic hardship – was always sterile in the case of the US. High recent migration into an economy where growth provides only low-paid jobs, in the absence of a strong and progressive labour movement, is always going to fuel the right. But that's not the US.
The US "won" the global recovery after 2008. It stabilised its banks and opted strong and early for monetary expansion. Real wage growth has wavered around the 4% line for the past five years.

And that was not the only source justifying confidence for Hillary Clinton. Her pollsters noted the inexorable demographic surge supporting liberalism: huge numbers of single-female households, rising black and Hispanic populations, gay marriages, historically high numbers of college graduates.

What they underestimated was the fragility of their own ideology and the deep reserves – even among educated men in crisp, white shirts – of fear and hatred.
If it is a sudden change in status to a once dominant group that drives electorates to the far right, as political scientist Roger Petersen has argued – then we have to start with the biggest change in status of all time. That is the reproductive shock that began 50 years ago, with the pill, which has put women into boardrooms, frontline combat roles and, more relevantly, control over who they have sex with, and when, and how.

The mass issuance of rape and death threats against women in public life, led by key figures on the alt-right media, is only the froth on the deep lake of bile nurtured by some men. You do not overturn 40,000 years of biologically rigged social control without a backlash. Before we agonise about the racial betrayal white America committed last night, we must understand the gender betrayal runs deeper.

When Trump explained his boasts about grabbing women "by the pussy" as "locker room talk", anti-sexist sports stars went on air to say, "Not in my locker room." But Trump was right. In the locker rooms of the developed world there is harboured – not among all men but enough – a deep fear about the economic and sexual liberation of women.

Leave aside the Wall Street dinners, the email servers and the pneumonia: it was ultimately Hillary Clinton's gender – symbolised by the "pant suit" – that was too much for some male voters, college-educated or not.

As to ethnicity and migration, the dynamics of what drove Trump to power are pretty simple once you understand the right's genius for subtext. Every time he said, "We'll build a wall to stop Mexicans", people understood the unstated second clause: and we'll reimpose segregation on black America. The first victims of the now-unleashed fury of white supremacism will be those heroic, thoughtful black college graduates who've made "Black Lives Matter" a household phrase.
So this is not some two-dimensional revolt against poverty and wage stagnation. It is a three-dimensional revolt against the impacts of neoliberalism – both positive and negative.
Freemarket economics unleashed two forces that have now collided: the rapid rise in inequality, and a route to the top percentile for the talented female, black or gay person. As long as it delivered not just growth but a growth story, a foreseeable better future, those disempowered by neoliberalism could stand it.

But neoliberalism no longer works. It is broken. If it survived it would have delivered at best zombie growth fuelled by central bank money and at worst stagnation. But it will not survive. Last summer I predicted that if we do not break with the economics of high inequality, high debt and low productivity, populations will vote to dismantle the global order. With Brexit and Trump that process is inexorable – and the next wave of the tsunami will hit Italy and Austria in their plebiscites on 4 December.

In the next weeks, our denial reflexes will be in full swing. Like Auden's generation we will "cling to our average day". But one set of people now faces a moment where only honesty will suffice. It is the economists, journalists, civil servants, bankers and policy wonks who have rubbished the idea of the existential threat.
They claimed the capitalism of the past 30 years was merely the inner essence of the system revealed, unimprovable unless by the privatisation of the last hospital and the decline of union density to zero. They were wrong; they need to place their intellectual firepower and resources – as their counterparts did in the era of Keynes and Roosevelt – in the service of designing an alternative system.



You're going to hear a lot of wailing from the left about our "disconnection" with the values of "ordinary working-class people". It is bullshit – both as a fact and an explanation of what's happened. In every state in America there are working-class people staffing beleaguered abortion clinics, organising unions among migrant cleaners and Walmart workers.

Those who tell you the left has to somehow "reconnect" with people whose minds are full of white supremacy and misogyny must finish the sentence. By what means? By throwing our black brothers and sisters under a bus? Eighty years ago the poets and miners of the International Brigades did not march into battle saying: "Mind you, the fascists have got a point."

It's not about reconnection. As in the UK, the racist right in America is a minority that can and must be defeated. It's about re-forming the political coalition that won both the New Deal and the second world war. The left, the unions, the ethnic minorities; the liberal middle class; and that section of Wall Street and the US boardroom that is unprepared to lie supine as wannabe-Trumps put their "locker room talk" into practice.
It will not be hard for a common story to emerge that puts the defence of global interconnection, racial tolerance and gender equality at its heart.
But we have to tell it convincingly. And to do so Democrats in America must find the courage to learn what British Labour – in a huge and unfinished effort – has learned. Stop putting discredited representatives of the elite at the top of the ballot paper.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 06:10:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 05:49:15 PM
Watching the uber liberals shit themselves is almost worth the uncertainty.
It's hilarious
http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.ch/2014/05/fascism-i-sometimes-fear.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 06:22:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 05:31:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
And to think Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting earlier this year

That was the UK. And it was because of a petition to ban him.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/)

It was Richard Boyd Barrett who was making noises about a ban.
Whats also worse is that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail publically backed Hillary's campaign and snubbed Trump. Not a good policy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tnaiste-tds-to-fly-to-us-for-democrats-convention-34908788.html

Show us where 'Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump'.

One clown making 'noises' is hardly the same thing.

Here: http://fusion.net/story/255400/ireland-trump-ban-petition/


Enda said he'd meet him but give him an earful about his stances. Like Enda can take someone down with his quick wit...

Did you read your own link?

"..Though they will be discussed by the committee, it seems unlikely that they will result in any action...."

The bold above doesn't con anywhere near proving your claim that 'Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting'.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: an léirmheastóir on November 09, 2016, 05:56:15 PM
So I don't pretend to know a lot about American politics especially now after the last 18 months goings on but I can't understand why so many people state side are horrified at the thought of trump getting the president gig and equally horrified at the thought of Hillary getting it. There were 12 republican candidates at the start and 2 democrats so obviously the candidate with the highest approval rating within each camp got chosen. I guess my question is there were 5 candidates on the ballot paper yesterday why if so many people were disillusioned with either of the big two did they not pick one of the other 3 as a protest vote. They still had their other candidates to vote for in the senate and I guess that's the more important vote. Maybe it's not possible to vote for say a democratic senator and say the lady who stood for the greens in the presidential race. Someone enlighten me please 🙈

Yes this is a good point.

Even after Trump winning there are those still arguing about how bad Hillary was. That is not a defence. It is a weak cover to avoid admitting their support for a misogynistic, islamophobic, Mexican-hating narcissist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 06:30:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 05:55:48 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2016, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2016, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2016, 11:49:21 AM
While no fan of Trump, the left-wing, pc media over here made little attempt to be objective.
There wasn't much delving into why people were supporting Trump, apart from them being uneducated, rednecks and racists.

If you looked a little bit, which you obviously didn't, there was a ton of coverage about what was motivating voters across the US, and none more so than about what was happening in places like Ohio, Michigan and West Virginia than anywhere else.
Incorrect. The majority of British and Irish media coverage painted Trump supporters in an unflattering light.
Far more vox pops with nut jobs at rallies than discussions with real voters.
Stuff like rust belt and blue collar were  namechecked but rarely quantified.
There's a huge difference between objective fact and bias.

It's an objective fact that Trump, along with a significant proportion of his support, are racist, xenophobic, misogynist, certainly those three, and then whatever you're having yourself.

Reporting objective fact is not bias, it's reporting objective fact.

Trump. Brexiteers and the whole populist far-right movement worldwide pride themselves on "telling it like it is" (their words).

Yet when it is genuinely "told as it is", they're the first to complain, hiding behind a sort of straw man version of the political correctness that they claim to hate to try and protect themselves from these objective facts.

Those that delight in giving offence in such a proudly "politically incorrect" manner are often the very same people that take offence most easily.

Other non-racial issues such as trade which motivated Trump's support were comprehensively covered. This is also objective fact. In an utter shit show of a campaign, light on policy discussion, this was the policy issue that was discussed and covered by the media the most.
It''s not howya Sean Brady Ff/FG. It's more like NI in the 50s. Putting people in their place. Using gender and race and religion as dog whistles.  Jewish journalists got vile alt right abuse. Women were threatened en masse with rape. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:11 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.

He doesn't get the chance to pull the sky down until after the Inauguration on the 20th January next.

Then the fun starts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:57:46 PM
The US economy is banjaxed. The people didn't just reject the Dems.  They also rejected the RNC.
Trump was all loved up with Reince Priebus but I don't think the relationship is very solid.
It is very complicated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHaBstZQ40

There are no easy answers. The notion of a billionaire draining a swamp of corruption is very American as well.
It's a long way from Atticus Finch.

Dollar is fucked, sterling is fucked, you must be creaming it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:57:46 PM
The US economy is banjaxed. The people didn't just reject the Dems.  They also rejected the RNC.
Trump was all loved up with Reince Priebus but I don't think the relationship is very solid.
It is very complicated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHaBstZQ40

There are no easy answers. The notion of a billionaire draining a swamp of corruption is very American as well.
It's a long way from Atticus Finch.

Dollar is fucked, sterling is fucked, you must be creaming it!
Asians love the dollar, MR so it might take a while.
But sterling is banjaxed
God save the Queen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 09, 2016, 08:17:29 PM
Warren 2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 08:24:05 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 09, 2016, 08:17:29 PM
Warren 2020

I'd say Trump would like to be a Putin style open-ended leader.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 08:24:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 01:57:46 PM
The US economy is banjaxed. The people didn't just reject the Dems.  They also rejected the RNC.
Trump was all loved up with Reince Priebus but I don't think the relationship is very solid.
It is very complicated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHaBstZQ40

There are no easy answers. The notion of a billionaire draining a swamp of corruption is very American as well.
It's a long way from Atticus Finch.

Dollar is fucked, sterling is fucked, you must be creaming it!
Asians love the dollar, MR so it might take a while.
But sterling is banjaxed
God save the Queen

Saved?? No need she seems well sorted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 08:38:59 PM
Regarding the Suwalki gap... Russia are 'trying to annex' the Balkan countries (an easy explanation for dummies like myself) How has Trump got anything to do with this??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2016, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 09, 2016, 08:17:29 PM
Warren 2020

f**k that. Kanye all the way..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 09, 2016, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 09, 2016, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 09, 2016, 08:17:29 PM
Warren 2020

f**k that. Kanye all the way..

Wud say thats more likely TBF
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on November 09, 2016, 09:16:42 PM
Putin is the big winner in all of this. Has far greater diplomatic savvy than Trump who is all talk and relatively unable to back it up with action. The Wall, banning Muslim entry, jailing Clinton, etc could not be attempted in their entirety and will be only be attempted in some watered down piecemeal to save face.

Putin is the opposite, much more adept at unilateral action and has caught the West sleeping twice recently, firstly annexing Crimea and also diffusing the chemical weapons situation in Syria. It may have come at the cost of sanctions and such but it must be said when the West was dithering and talking he caught them on the hop.

I'm no admirer of Putin's ideology and understand the comparisons he has to a dictator but I do respect his acumen when it comes to international diplomacy. The USA's held their superpower position for the last century by rattling a big sabre. Trump's empty threats if repeated as president could lead to more countries calling their bluff on serious issues, Russia in particular could use Trump's inexperience (and apparent regard for Putin) to their advantage in the coming months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 09, 2016, 09:21:36 PM
In one last act of sad historical irony last night, Donald Trump  held his victory party in the hotel where Malcolm X spent his final night.
Interestingly "HILLARY WON THE POPULAR VOTE." A quarter-million more Americans wanted her, not him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Owenmoresider on November 09, 2016, 09:30:25 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 05:49:15 PM
Watching the uber liberals shit themselves is almost worth the uncertainty.
Certainly no fan of Trump, but that is true, some real amusing hysterics from people on social media. Whatever you think of Trump and how good/horrid he may be, Clinton's defeat couldn't have happened to a nicer person.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 09, 2016, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 08:38:59 PM
Regarding the Suwalki gap... Russia are 'trying to annex' the Balkan countries (an easy explanation for dummies like myself) How has Trump got anything to do with this??

Trump said he would evaluate whether NATO members had paid their agreed amount into their defence budget before coming to their aid if they ever needed help. I don't know the exact figures but I'm fairly sure most of them (certainly the European members) aren't meeting the minimum spending of 2% GDP on their defence budgets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 06:22:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 05:31:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
And to think Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting earlier this year

That was the UK. And it was because of a petition to ban him.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/)

It was Richard Boyd Barrett who was making noises about a ban.
Whats also worse is that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail publically backed Hillary's campaign and snubbed Trump. Not a good policy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tnaiste-tds-to-fly-to-us-for-democrats-convention-34908788.html

Show us where 'Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump'.

One clown making 'noises' is hardly the same thing.

Here: http://fusion.net/story/255400/ireland-trump-ban-petition/


Enda said he'd meet him but give him an earful about his stances. Like Enda can take someone down with his quick wit...

Did you read your own link?

"..Though they will be discussed by the committee, it seems unlikely that they will result in any action...."

The bold above doesn't con anywhere near proving your claim that 'Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting'.

according to journalists. Read the first line.
http://www.thejournal.ie/ban-trump-tds-2546089-Jan2016/

There's a huge difference between thinking about it and putting into action.

You're a bitter fella today. Cheer up lad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on November 09, 2016, 09:56:39 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 09, 2016, 09:30:25 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 05:49:15 PM
Watching the uber liberals shit themselves is almost worth the uncertainty.
Certainly no fan of Trump, but that is true, some real amusing hysterics from people on social media. Whatever you think of Trump and how good/horrid he may be, Clinton's defeat couldn't have happened to a nicer person.

As with the last General Election in 2015, Brexit and the US election, the lefties need to realise these things aren't won on social media
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 09, 2016, 10:06:05 PM
Muppet is the board's resident Bill Maher, and as right as often as the man himself. Rarely.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
MR some UK diplomat said the UK foreign policy for the last 40 years has been as a bridge to an open US into an EU in which the UK paid a full part. Now all that is in bits .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
MR some UK diplomat said the UK foreign policy for the last 40 years has been as a bridge to an open US into an EU in which the UK paid a full part. Now all that is in bits .

When I'm living on the streets I'll let you know!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 06:22:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 05:31:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
And to think Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting earlier this year

That was the UK. And it was because of a petition to ban him.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/europe/uk-parliament-debates-trump-ban/)

It was Richard Boyd Barrett who was making noises about a ban.
Whats also worse is that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail publically backed Hillary's campaign and snubbed Trump. Not a good policy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tnaiste-tds-to-fly-to-us-for-democrats-convention-34908788.html

Show us where 'Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump'.

One clown making 'noises' is hardly the same thing.

Here: http://fusion.net/story/255400/ireland-trump-ban-petition/


Enda said he'd meet him but give him an earful about his stances. Like Enda can take someone down with his quick wit...

Did you read your own link?

"..Though they will be discussed by the committee, it seems unlikely that they will result in any action...."

The bold above doesn't con anywhere near proving your claim that 'Irish politicians thought about banning Donald Trump from visiting'.

according to journalists. Read the first line.
http://www.thejournal.ie/ban-trump-tds-2546089-Jan2016/

There's a huge difference between thinking about it and putting into action.

You're a bitter fella today. Cheer up lad.

Read the article, as against the first line and you might understand what is going on. They weren't 'thinking about it', they were going to examine the Dail standing orders to see if it was even proper to bring it up.

And is it ever possible that you might stop the ad hominems?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
MR some UK diplomat said the UK foreign policy for the last 40 years has been as a bridge to an open US into an EU in which the UK paid a full part. Now all that is in bits .

When I'm living on the streets I'll let you know!!

No one said you will be living in the streets.

But when you are arguing that you are still waiting for Brexit to make a difference, at least 6 months before it's 2 year negotiation process even begins, then you are not really analysing the effects of Brexit are you?

Regarding the 26, with Brexit and a Trump Presidency to commence before next summer, yes things will change in Ireland. Our biggest market will contract and the worlds' largest economy could move in any direction, bringing their multinationals and a huge part of our GDP with them.

The Baltics, Ukraine and even Findland could find themselves with a managing Russia flexing more muscle than usual, now that for the first time ever, they got their man into the White House. So how will that affect our EU colleagues?

If you want to argue that nothing will happen then fair enough, but it would add credence to be able to point to some reasons why. Calling people drama queens isn't really much of an argument and neither is saying that nothing has happened yet, when neither of the problem scenarios have even commenced yet, is an even dafter argument.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on November 09, 2016, 10:38:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
MR some UK diplomat said the UK foreign policy for the last 40 years has been as a bridge to an open US into an EU in which the UK paid a full part. Now all that is in bits .

When I'm living on the streets I'll let you know!!

No one said you will be living in the streets.

But when you are arguing that you are still waiting for Brexit to make a difference, at least 6 months before it's 2 year negotiation process even begins, then you are not really analysing the effects of Brexit are you?

Regarding the 26, with Brexit and a Trump Presidency to commence before next summer, yes things will change in Ireland. Our biggest market will contract and the worlds' largest economy could move in any direction, bringing their multinationals and a huge part of our GDP with them.

The Baltics, Ukraine and even Findland could find themselves with a managing Russia flexing more muscle than usual, now that for the first time ever, they got their man into the White House. So how will that affect our EU colleagues?

If you want to argue that nothing will happen then fair enough, but it would add credence to be able to point to some reasons why. Calling people drama queens isn't really much of an argument and neither is saying that nothing has happened yet, when neither of the problem scenarios have even commenced yet, is an even dafter argument.

Blind speculation is not exactly a great argument either. We will all look back in 10 years and wonder what all the fuss was about. Chill out.  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:40:16 PM
Thinking about this more, we have lived for the last few decades in the post Soviet Union era. Countries in Eastern Europe left the USSR, joined the EU and even joined NATO.

Along with the UN, the latter 2 organisations were created to prevent another World War. And they succeeded.

Now the UN is redundant, Britain has pulled the plug on the EU, while the US has elected a President who wants to scale down NATO and appears to be under the influence of a particularly menacing Russian dictator.

Yesterday may look, to future historians, as the inexplicable end to a great era.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2016, 11:00:33 PM
So the Dems win the popular vote and lose the election for the second time in five elections.

Won six of last seven too.

Will that rein the GOP and Trump in?

Or will it be a case of making hay while the sun shines?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: manfromdelmonte on November 09, 2016, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 11:00:33 PM
So the Dems win the popular vote and lose the election for the second time in five elections.

Won six of last seven too.

Will that rein the GOP and Trump in?

Or will it be a case of making hay while the sun shines?
a lot of republicans in the senate and house will not vote with Trump

I hope
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
MR some UK diplomat said the UK foreign policy for the last 40 years has been as a bridge to an open US into an EU in which the UK paid a full part. Now all that is in bits .

When I'm living on the streets I'll let you know!!

No one said you will be living in the streets.

But when you are arguing that you are still waiting for Brexit to make a difference, at least 6 months before it's 2 year negotiation process even begins, then you are not really analysing the effects of Brexit are you?

Regarding the 26, with Brexit and a Trump Presidency to commence before next summer, yes things will change in Ireland. Our biggest market will contract and the worlds' largest economy could move in any direction, bringing their multinationals and a huge part of our GDP with them.

The Baltics, Ukraine and even Findland could find themselves with a managing Russia flexing more muscle than usual, now that for the first time ever, they got their man into the White House. So how will that affect our EU colleagues?

If you want to argue that nothing will happen then fair enough, but it would add credence to be able to point to some reasons why. Calling people drama queens isn't really much of an argument and neither is saying that nothing has happened yet, when neither of the problem scenarios have even commenced yet, is an even dafter argument.

When it happens to be worse than before I'll take that adopt measures in my life to make work, I'm not and neither are you or even seafoid able to do anything about it, other than speculate the life right out off it!!

I've seen worse clampits in charge of America and lived through the troubles and a few recessions!! Life is still 1000 % better than before
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 09, 2016, 11:30:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok

Take it you haven't been in the 26 recently then?  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 09, 2016, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
MR some UK diplomat said the UK foreign policy for the last 40 years has been as a bridge to an open US into an EU in which the UK paid a full part. Now all that is in bits .

When I'm living on the streets I'll let you know!!

No one said you will be living in the streets.

But when you are arguing that you are still waiting for Brexit to make a difference, at least 6 months before it's 2 year negotiation process even begins, then you are not really analysing the effects of Brexit are you?

Regarding the 26, with Brexit and a Trump Presidency to commence before next summer, yes things will change in Ireland. Our biggest market will contract and the worlds' largest economy could move in any direction, bringing their multinationals and a huge part of our GDP with them.

The Baltics, Ukraine and even Findland could find themselves with a managing Russia flexing more muscle than usual, now that for the first time ever, they got their man into the White House. So how will that affect our EU colleagues?

If you want to argue that nothing will happen then fair enough, but it would add credence to be able to point to some reasons why. Calling people drama queens isn't really much of an argument and neither is saying that nothing has happened yet, when neither of the problem scenarios have even commenced yet, is an even dafter argument.

When it happens to be worse than before I'll take that adopt measures in my life to make work, I'm not and neither are you or even seafoid able to do anything about it, other than speculate the life right out off it!!

I've seen worse clampits in charge of America and lived through the troubles and a few recessions!! Life is still 1000 % better than before

Name them.

Also, when you say that the bank collapse "wasn't that bad".  You're only speaking for yourself there, that's not an assessment of the actual realities of it for a huge number of people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2016, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on November 09, 2016, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 11:00:33 PM
So the Dems win the popular vote and lose the election for the second time in five elections.

Won six of last seven too.

Will that rein the GOP and Trump in?

Or will it be a case of making hay while the sun shines?
a lot of republicans in the senate and house will not vote with Trump

I hope

Where did you hear that?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 09, 2016, 11:45:51 PM
Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

(Although known most widely in its abbreviated form above,
the entire prayer reads as follows...)

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 11:52:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 09, 2016, 11:30:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok

Take it you haven't been in the 26 recently then?  ::)

According to seafoid it's the place to be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 11:58:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 09, 2016, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
MR some UK diplomat said the UK foreign policy for the last 40 years has been as a bridge to an open US into an EU in which the UK paid a full part. Now all that is in bits .

When I'm living on the streets I'll let you know!!

No one said you will be living in the streets.

But when you are arguing that you are still waiting for Brexit to make a difference, at least 6 months before it's 2 year negotiation process even begins, then you are not really analysing the effects of Brexit are you?

Regarding the 26, with Brexit and a Trump Presidency to commence before next summer, yes things will change in Ireland. Our biggest market will contract and the worlds' largest economy could move in any direction, bringing their multinationals and a huge part of our GDP with them.

The Baltics, Ukraine and even Findland could find themselves with a managing Russia flexing more muscle than usual, now that for the first time ever, they got their man into the White House. So how will that affect our EU colleagues?

If you want to argue that nothing will happen then fair enough, but it would add credence to be able to point to some reasons why. Calling people drama queens isn't really much of an argument and neither is saying that nothing has happened yet, when neither of the problem scenarios have even commenced yet, is an even dafter argument.

When it happens to be worse than before I'll take that adopt measures in my life to make work, I'm not and neither are you or even seafoid able to do anything about it, other than speculate the life right out off it!!

I've seen worse clampits in charge of America and lived through the troubles and a few recessions!! Life is still 1000 % better than before

Name them.

Also, when you say that the bank collapse "wasn't that bad".  You're only speaking for yourself there, that's not an assessment of the actual realities of it for a huge number of people.

Tegan and Bush jr for starters .... it never affected anyone I know... I can't answer for you.. I know you said you had it hard, but do you not believe living now is better than life growing up in the seventies?? For me and I lived on the Falls road most of my life I'm far better off and so are my kids. Only real barometer I can go with to be honest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 10, 2016, 12:01:24 AM
Quite.

That serenity should possibly extend to knowing that you can't change the fact that some people might think that Donald Trump being elected president of America and Britain leaving the EU is a bad thing.

And that they might want to discuss this on... er... a discussion board perhaps.

If these discussions annoy you please feel free not to partake in them.

If we only discussed things on this board that we were able to change you could delete 95% of the threads straight away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on November 10, 2016, 12:05:05 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 08:38:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 08:31:17 AM
Clinton was a bad candidate.

Stupid Goddam Democrats.

Dunno. Somebody in politics as long as Hilary is going to have a few stains but I'm not sure they could have done better. I like Bernie Sanders but I think he would have been destroyed as well. Trump would just have targeted him in a different way. He'd have been labelled as socialist, commie-loving, liberal, soft on emigration/crime etc. It would be emails, Benghazi, lock-her-up tactic in a different guise. Trump's electioneering was just a means to an end. One of the best brain washing campaigns ever. The key was to keep the message simple and repetitive and avoid policy and minute. They pulled it off brilliantly. Probably because they targeted a sizable % of people that will believe something they want to hear, especially if they hear it often enough.
Notice the change in difference in Trump's body language in acceptance speech. The exaggerated hand gestures were well toned down. I suspect everything will be toned down now. Becoming President is an end for itself for this man I suspect.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 10, 2016, 12:11:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 11:58:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 09, 2016, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
MR some UK diplomat said the UK foreign policy for the last 40 years has been as a bridge to an open US into an EU in which the UK paid a full part. Now all that is in bits .

When I'm living on the streets I'll let you know!!

No one said you will be living in the streets.

But when you are arguing that you are still waiting for Brexit to make a difference, at least 6 months before it's 2 year negotiation process even begins, then you are not really analysing the effects of Brexit are you?

Regarding the 26, with Brexit and a Trump Presidency to commence before next summer, yes things will change in Ireland. Our biggest market will contract and the worlds' largest economy could move in any direction, bringing their multinationals and a huge part of our GDP with them.

The Baltics, Ukraine and even Findland could find themselves with a managing Russia flexing more muscle than usual, now that for the first time ever, they got their man into the White House. So how will that affect our EU colleagues?

If you want to argue that nothing will happen then fair enough, but it would add credence to be able to point to some reasons why. Calling people drama queens isn't really much of an argument and neither is saying that nothing has happened yet, when neither of the problem scenarios have even commenced yet, is an even dafter argument.

When it happens to be worse than before I'll take that adopt measures in my life to make work, I'm not and neither are you or even seafoid able to do anything about it, other than speculate the life right out off it!!

I've seen worse clampits in charge of America and lived through the troubles and a few recessions!! Life is still 1000 % better than before

Name them.

Also, when you say that the bank collapse "wasn't that bad".  You're only speaking for yourself there, that's not an assessment of the actual realities of it for a huge number of people.

Tegan and Bush jr for starters .... it never affected anyone I know... I can't answer for you.. I know you said you had it hard, but do you not believe living now is better than life growing up in the seventies?? For me and I lived on the Falls road most of my life I'm far better off and so are my kids. Only real barometer I can go with to be honest

So you didn't know anyone who had to take a pay cut/emigrate for work/was made redundant/lost their home/suffered a breakup of their family due to financial pressures/had their lives affected by suicide/depression due to financial issues???? Anyone at all???  Quite frankly, you're either fibbing or you must never leave the house.

And why do you keep making this irrelevant straw man point about the standard of life here in the seventies?  Did I say this anywhere or at any time??

Life must be fairly poor for you if you are arguing that everything is OK as long as you're not getting blown up or shot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2016, 12:22:44 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 10, 2016, 12:11:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 11:58:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 09, 2016, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
MR some UK diplomat said the UK foreign policy for the last 40 years has been as a bridge to an open US into an EU in which the UK paid a full part. Now all that is in bits .

When I'm living on the streets I'll let you know!!

No one said you will be living in the streets.

But when you are arguing that you are still waiting for Brexit to make a difference, at least 6 months before it's 2 year negotiation process even begins, then you are not really analysing the effects of Brexit are you?

Regarding the 26, with Brexit and a Trump Presidency to commence before next summer, yes things will change in Ireland. Our biggest market will contract and the worlds' largest economy could move in any direction, bringing their multinationals and a huge part of our GDP with them.

The Baltics, Ukraine and even Findland could find themselves with a managing Russia flexing more muscle than usual, now that for the first time ever, they got their man into the White House. So how will that affect our EU colleagues?

If you want to argue that nothing will happen then fair enough, but it would add credence to be able to point to some reasons why. Calling people drama queens isn't really much of an argument and neither is saying that nothing has happened yet, when neither of the problem scenarios have even commenced yet, is an even dafter argument.

When it happens to be worse than before I'll take that adopt measures in my life to make work, I'm not and neither are you or even seafoid able to do anything about it, other than speculate the life right out off it!!

I've seen worse clampits in charge of America and lived through the troubles and a few recessions!! Life is still 1000 % better than before

Name them.

Also, when you say that the bank collapse "wasn't that bad".  You're only speaking for yourself there, that's not an assessment of the actual realities of it for a huge number of people.

Tegan and Bush jr for starters .... it never affected anyone I know... I can't answer for you.. I know you said you had it hard, but do you not believe living now is better than life growing up in the seventies?? For me and I lived on the Falls road most of my life I'm far better off and so are my kids. Only real barometer I can go with to be honest

So you didn't know anyone who had to take a pay cut/emigrate for work/was made redundant/lost their home/suffered a breakup of their family due to financial pressures/had their lives affected by suicide/depression due to financial issues???? Anyone at all???  Quite frankly, you're either fibbing or you must never leave the house.

And why do you keep making this irrelevant straw man point about the standard of life here in the seventies?  Did I say this anywhere or at any time??

Life must be fairly poor for you if you are arguing that everything is OK as long as you're not getting blown up or shot.

Everyone took a freeze or pay cut during that period... but anyone I know didn't lose their job or as far as I know suffer depression for it! You want me to make it up??  I've (I'm sure like most) debt that I continue to pay off I've a mortgage that seems like it's the same since I started 18 years ago... worrying about won't make these things disappear... you just do what you have to do... depression hits rich and poor people it's doesn't discriminate..

It could all go tits up tomorrow for me, but hey I've been down there before, it's how you deal with it when it happens... we've all had trauma in or lives. You're not the only one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 10, 2016, 12:30:54 AM
Ah, so now it affected everyone you know.  Jesus wept.  ::)

And again, leave out the straw man crap, I didn't say it only affected me... in fact, I was saying exactly the opposite.

Thanks for the life advice, though I don't recall asking for it.  Maybe you could start your very own thread telling everyone how you've dealt with your issues in life and leave us in peace to discuss the results of the American election.  Cheers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 12:35:34 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on November 09, 2016, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 11:00:33 PM
So the Dems win the popular vote and lose the election for the second time in five elections.

Won six of last seven too.

Will that rein the GOP and Trump in?

Or will it be a case of making hay while the sun shines?
a lot of republicans in the senate and house will not vote with Trump

I hope

Doubtful, but even if true, that does nothing to hamstring the harmful effects of installing right wing political appointees to the various departments.

Get ready for climate deniers controlling the Interior department and lots of federal lands opening up to drilling and mining; rolling back of environmental and ecological protections; lower enforcement of environmental, worker and consumer protection laws and so on and on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 10, 2016, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:40:16 PM
Thinking about this more, we have lived for the last few decades in the post Soviet Union era. Countries in Eastern Europe left the USSR, joined the EU and even joined NATO.

Along with the UN, the latter 2 organisations were created to prevent another World War. And they succeeded.

Now the UN is redundant, Britain has pulled the plug on the EU, while the US has elected a President who wants to scale down NATO and appears to be under the influence of a particularly menacing Russian dictator.

Yesterday may look, to future historians, as the inexplicable end to a great era.

You are an absolute tool, even you don't believe the President elect is 'under the influence' of anyone let alone that Russian kn**ker!

If you don't believe the shite you spew say fack all you ass hat!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 02:00:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2016, 12:35:34 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on November 09, 2016, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2016, 11:00:33 PM
So the Dems win the popular vote and lose the election for the second time in five elections.

Won six of last seven too.

Will that rein the GOP and Trump in?

Or will it be a case of making hay while the sun shines?
a lot of republicans in the senate and house will not vote with Trump

I hope

Doubtful, but even if true, that does nothing to hamstring the harmful effects of installing right wing political appointees to the various departments.

Get ready for climate deniers controlling the Interior department and lots of federal lands opening up to drilling and mining; rolling back of environmental and ecological protections; lower enforcement of environmental, worker and consumer protection laws and so on and on.
Brexit is the same. They have to get out of the EU to drop the worker protections. 
They sold poor voters a fantasy of deals that won't happen.  Trump sold US bluecollars a budget that would have blown up the US treasury. All vague and emotional. Details irrelevant  .

It is extremist. Generating value by driving labour conditions down. Wilbur Ross of Bank of Ireland fame is in the inner circle. Brexit looks like a failed ultra right wing coup. Trump looks like one that succeeded.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 02:52:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 09, 2016, 07:22:35 PM
Serious amount of drama queens around the world. He won. The sky did not fall in. Get over it and get on with your lives. You never know, he may even do a reasonable job. As Clinton said herself, he deserves a chance to lead.
+1. It won't make a damn bit of difference to my life.

Oh yes it will!

How exactly ?

I'm still waiting on brexit making a difference... would need to be worse than than the bank failure otherwise it's actually ok
It starts with the Toblerones, MR

I don't think there will be much duthracht in the UK for the next while.
But let's see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 10, 2016, 03:57:46 AM
Whitelash is being blamed On Trump winning the presidency, yes folks some in black America are blaming angr white Americans on Trump being elected, they forget that white America got Obama elected and by the way, ALL Americans should embrace the decision the country made.

I am sick and tired of liberals not owing results, I am tired of their apathy toward the indigenous people of the Americas, I am appalled at their lack,of morality having clinton run representing them, I am sickened by Obamacare and it's skyrocketing costs and I am tired of the lack of respect people have for the office of President, thanks Billy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 10, 2016, 04:30:08 AM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:40:16 PM
Thinking about this more, we have lived for the last few decades in the post Soviet Union era. Countries in Eastern Europe left the USSR, joined the EU and even joined NATO.

Along with the UN, the latter 2 organisations were created to prevent another World War. And they succeeded.

Now the UN is redundant, Britain has pulled the plug on the EU, while the US has elected a President who wants to scale down NATO and appears to be under the influence of a particularly menacing Russian dictator.

Yesterday may look, to future historians, as the inexplicable end to a great era.

You are an absolute tool, even you don't believe the President elect is 'under the influence' of anyone let alone that Russian kn**ker!

If you don't believe the shite you spew say fack all you ass hat!


Sooooooo touchy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on November 10, 2016, 04:46:49 AM
Stew, I wouldn't embrace Donald Trump if I were wearing a Hazmat suit, no more than I would have embraced Ian Paisley at the high point of his demagoguery. He embodies everything I loathe.  No need to enumerate his flaws now.  And if he appoints Giuliani and Gingrich to his cabinet, between the three of them they have amassed nine wives.  This is old school Mormon family values. Book of Mormon, the Sequel.

I do think whitelash is a key factor in Clinton's defeat, a reaction to a number of factors beyond her exaggerated unlikeability--an anti-Obama racism fueled by inherent white racism in America and further stoked by a white electorate that gets its facts from propaganda mills like Breitbart, a racism legitimized by a Republican pledge to obstruct all Obama initiatives.

Of course, Dems should blame themselves too for their smugness, but Trump is right when he says that the election is rigged.  It is.  The Electoral College system is anachronistic and fundamentally undemocratic.  Once again, Dems won the popular vote but not the election.  Absurd.  Add to that the composition of the Senate.  How is it democratic that Rhode Island, a state slightly bigger than Longstone, Bambrook and Lisnally Gardens, gets two senators while California, with an economy larger than France's also gets two?

It is a very dark day here in the States, and I fear for the marginalized under a Trump kingship, and to make matters worse, he is the very antithesis of Plato's philosopher king, he is the embodiment of ignorance. 

I accept the will of the people but don't have to like it, especially since the gullible were motivated by raw appeals to the worst in human nature.  And don't misunderestimate, to quote Bush, the number of adult white males unwilling to accept a woman president.

I have not felt this low since 911.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Far East on November 10, 2016, 07:06:20 AM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 03:57:46 AM
Whitelash is being blamed On Trump winning the presidency, yes folks some in black America are blaming angr white Americans on Trump being elected, they forget that white America got Obama elected and by the way, ALL Americans should embrace the decision the country made.

I am sick and tired of liberals not owing results, I am tired of their apathy toward the indigenous people of the Americas, I am appalled at their lack,of morality having clinton run representing them, I am sickened by Obamacare and it's skyrocketing costs and I am tired of the lack of respect people have for the office of President, thanks Billy.

Never had you down as advocate of the plight of the native Americans! Please inform us of your activism in this area. I assume you're in North Dakota protesting the destruction of sacred land?  And all this time I thought you were a bitter, right wing plastic Paddy!  I apologise....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2016, 07:57:39 AM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:40:16 PM
Thinking about this more, we have lived for the last few decades in the post Soviet Union era. Countries in Eastern Europe left the USSR, joined the EU and even joined NATO.

Along with the UN, the latter 2 organisations were created to prevent another World War. And they succeeded.

Now the UN is redundant, Britain has pulled the plug on the EU, while the US has elected a President who wants to scale down NATO and appears to be under the influence of a particularly menacing Russian dictator.

Yesterday may look, to future historians, as the inexplicable end to a great era.

You are an absolute tool, even you don't believe the President elect is 'under the influence' of anyone let alone that Russian kn**ker!

If you don't believe the shite you spew say fack all you ass hat!

Stew, you just voted for Putin's man.  ;D ;D ;D

You need to turn off Hannity and read some news from around the world: http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-11-09/russian-leaders-literally-cheer-trumps-victory (http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-11-09/russian-leaders-literally-cheer-trumps-victory)

And you should read more about Trump's choice of campaign manager: http://fortune.com/2016/08/15/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-paul-manafort/ (http://fortune.com/2016/08/15/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-paul-manafort/)

And you can wonder why former Russian guest Julian Assange only targeted Democrat private emails. His statement yesterday wasn't very convincing I thought: https://wikileaks.org/Assange-Statement-on-the-US-Election.html (https://wikileaks.org/Assange-Statement-on-the-US-Election.html)

Or instead you can rant absurdly for our entertainment. And what is an 'ass hat'?

Anyway....

хорошего дня

As you will all be saying soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 08:28:42 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2016, 11:45:51 PM
Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

(Although known most widely in its abbreviated form above,
the entire prayer reads as follows...)

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.
My mother is a great fan of that prayer. I think it's too passive. Outside of emotional stuff with women most things don't happen by accident.
The bank crash in 2010 was no fluke. I think we trust institutions far too much. We think they are led by competent people. They aren't necessarily.

One of my favourite quotes is from Brian Cowen

"We had to make decisions with the information that was available to us at the time. Of course mistakes were made. If we had known what we know now different decisions would have been made".

All the people who warned FF about risk had committed suicide on the orders of Bertie. So when the Wolf turned up all they knew about the banks could be written on the back of a fag packet.
PadraiG Flynn's brother took his own life. That is how exposed FF people were in the end.
The line between what we can and cannot change is hazy.
Is ar scáth a chéile a mairimid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 10, 2016, 08:36:13 AM
Yeah but getting wound up by who is the US President falls firmly within it's remit - unless someone is motivated to assasinate him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Gs Man on November 10, 2016, 08:49:54 AM
Lads, as my dear old 95 year old granny says, "There's no point putting your hands on your arse after you've shit yourself."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 08:53:48 AM
Great post, Oraisteach

I think there are 2 ways to respond to deflation and economic collapse

1. Work for payrises, wealth redistribution and workers rights
2. Turn up the hatred and head towards war

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/24/iraq.martinwoollacott
I love Americans," said Joe Cirincione, of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, "but they're so easily moulded." He was referring to the rallying around the flag and the troops which war has brought, a surge of feeling manifest in a wave of genuine sympathy but also in commercial opportunism of the kind that offered Washington Post readers yesterday the chance to buy a four-inch-high figurine of a teddy bear in combat gear entitled Front Line of Freedom
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 08:58:16 AM
Rap has been dealing with chaos and systematic injustice  for a long time
Some of the stuff is lot more relevant than Katy Perry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ5rI461KNE

Got a bevy of imps to spit hatred
Shit'll get in your head and cause panic
Have you desperately begging to get famous
Get your dignity dirty and left orphaned
Sanity on the fringe of distorted
Who are they to just take shit and hoard it?
Who am I that I don't get my portion?
The most impressionable minds get molested and informed by manipulating forces
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 09:05:36 AM

Flame you quicker than Trump f*cks his youngest


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUC2EQvdzmY

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 10, 2016, 09:16:28 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 10, 2016, 12:05:05 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 08:38:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 08:31:17 AM
Clinton was a bad candidate.

Stupid Goddam Democrats.

Dunno. Somebody in politics as long as Hilary is going to have a few stains but I'm not sure they could have done better. I like Bernie Sanders but I think he would have been destroyed as well. Trump would just have targeted him in a different way. He'd have been labelled as socialist, commie-loving, liberal, soft on emigration/crime etc. It would be emails, Benghazi, lock-her-up tactic in a different guise. Trump's electioneering was just a means to an end. One of the best brain washing campaigns ever. The key was to keep the message simple and repetitive and avoid policy and minute. They pulled it off brilliantly. Probably because they targeted a sizable % of people that will believe something they want to hear, especially if they hear it often enough.
Notice the change in difference in Trump's body language in acceptance speech. The exaggerated hand gestures were well toned down. I suspect everything will be toned down now. Becoming President is an end for itself for this man I suspect.

I don't think the Trump voters are brainwashed. For many of them, I think they have real problems (lack of jobs, decline of communities, etc) which haven't been addressed by recent govts. Along comes a candidate who at least acknowledges their concerns and says he's going to do something about it. Since he's the only one talking to them, they're willing to dismiss all the racist, misogynist things he says (that doesn't mean they agree with him, just that they're looking out for themselves first).

Like with Brexit, it's easier to label trump voters as stupid & ignorant rather than attempting to understand why they voted for him and trying to address their constituency next time around (with REAL policies rather than just rhetoric)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 10, 2016, 09:52:28 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 08:38:59 PM
Regarding the Suwalki gap... Russia are 'trying to annex' the Balkan countries (an easy explanation for dummies like myself) How has Trump got anything to do with this??

It is the threatened removal of the old 80's fail-safe - MAD.

If Putin knows or believes he is dealing with an Isolationist / Non-interventionist President he will be emboldened to reclaim the Baltic states. It will start (or has started) with Russian minorities in the 3 Countries claiming persecution and will move to protests and we will see another Crimea or eastern Ukraine. With no US backing which European leader is going to escalate this little regional difficulty?

However I think we would be more likely to see land grabs by the Chinese. If they see the US as non-Interventionist and closing their borders to Chinese goods they will escalate their Island building in the Spratlys to secure the South China Sea oil reserves. Will Vietnam or the Philippines go down the route of appeasement without their US ally.

A third concern would be the loss of American moderating influence on Pakistan in their ongoing dispute with India in Kashmir.

NB: I don't believe America will turn inward despite some of Trumps more off the cuff, ill-prepared remarks. He has got his goal and I believe he will be content to be a figure-head and let the Republican house and Senate dictate policy for the next 4 years. He is over 70 and is not going for a second term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 09:56:12 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 10, 2016, 09:16:28 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 10, 2016, 12:05:05 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2016, 08:38:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 08:31:17 AM
Clinton was a bad candidate.

Stupid Goddam Democrats.

Dunno. Somebody in politics as long as Hilary is going to have a few stains but I'm not sure they could have done better. I like Bernie Sanders but I think he would have been destroyed as well. Trump would just have targeted him in a different way. He'd have been labelled as socialist, commie-loving, liberal, soft on emigration/crime etc. It would be emails, Benghazi, lock-her-up tactic in a different guise. Trump's electioneering was just a means to an end. One of the best brain washing campaigns ever. The key was to keep the message simple and repetitive and avoid policy and minute. They pulled it off brilliantly. Probably because they targeted a sizable % of people that will believe something they want to hear, especially if they hear it often enough.
Notice the change in difference in Trump's body language in acceptance speech. The exaggerated hand gestures were well toned down. I suspect everything will be toned down now. Becoming President is an end for itself for this man I suspect.

I don't think the Trump voters are brainwashed. For many of them, I think they have real problems (lack of jobs, decline of communities, etc) which haven't been addressed by recent govts. Along comes a candidate who at least acknowledges their concerns and says he's going to do something about it. Since he's the only one talking to them, they're willing to dismiss all the racist, misogynist things he says (that doesn't mean they agree with him, just that they're looking out for themselves first).

Like with Brexit, it's easier to label trump voters as stupid & ignorant rather than attempting to understand why they voted for him and trying to address their constituency next time around (with REAL policies rather than just rhetoric)
Blue collar people suffering were not but the others were
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 10:07:50 AM
Democrats who are now hand waving about this being the worst event in US political history continue to miss that point Mac. They're wringing their hands about Trump being Trump rather than focusing on the issues that led him to be elected.

It all boiled down to the vast swathes of poor white people who felt left behind by politicians and the economy in the rust belt. They saw their small and medium sized towns collapsing around them while the media were focusing on minorities (in their eyes) and treating them as if they were particularly privileged when they didn't feel that way at all.

If the democrats don't pivot and appeal more to low income whites they are probably fucked in four years time too. A rainbow collation will never be enough. They and establishment Republicans want to live in a respectful America that just does not exsist. Trump played to the real situation rather than the assumed one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 10:07:50 AM
Democrats who are now hand waving about this being the worst event in US political history continue to miss that point Mac. They're wringing their hands about Trump being Trump rather than focusing on the issues that led him to be elected.

It all boiled down to the vast swathes of poor white people who felt left behind by politicians and the economy in the rust belt. They saw their small and medium sized towns collapsing around them while the media were focusing on minorities (in their eyes) and treating them as if they were particularly privileged when they didn't feel that way at all.

If the democrats don't pivot and appeal more to low income whites they are probably fucked in four years time too. A rainbow collation will never be enough. They and establishment Republicans want to live in a respectful America that just does not exsist. Trump played to the real situation rather than the assumed one.

How exactly did Trump "play to the real situation"?

By demonizing Muslims en masse. By calling climate change a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese government. By appealing to the worst instincts of the GOP base by embracing conspiracy theories, not least about Obama. By making bullshit promises about trade wars and tariffs bringing back manufacturing jobs. By hyping up the "threat" of illegal immigrants and making more bullshit promises about having Mexico pay for a wall the length of the southern border. By equivocating on support from far right racists.

It was populist demogoguery. Are you saying that the Dems need to get down in that gutter too?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 10, 2016, 11:18:46 AM
Quote from: Far East on November 10, 2016, 07:06:20 AM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 03:57:46 AM
Whitelash is being blamed On Trump winning the presidency, yes folks some in black America are blaming angr white Americans on Trump being elected, they forget that white America got Obama elected and by the way, ALL Americans should embrace the decision the country made.

I am sick and tired of liberals not owing results, I am tired of their apathy toward the indigenous people of the Americas, I am appalled at their lack,of morality having clinton run representing them, I am sickened by Obamacare and it's skyrocketing costs and I am tired of the lack of respect people have for the office of President, thanks Billy.

Never had you down as advocate of the plight of the native Americans! Please inform us of your activism in this area. I assume you're in North Dakota protesting the destruction of sacred land?  And all this time I thought you were a bitter, right wing plastic Paddy!  I apologise....

You should apologise 2 posts! all this time )

I am bitter toward Clinton, I was, she is politically finished and I have let that go.

As for my leaning 2 posts, I am a social liberal and fiscal conservative and I would love it if both left and right moved to the centre.

President Trump, wow!

Bye bye 2 posts!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2016, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 10:07:50 AM
Democrats who are now hand waving about this being the worst event in US political history continue to miss that point Mac. They're wringing their hands about Trump being Trump rather than focusing on the issues that led him to be elected.

It all boiled down to the vast swathes of poor white people who felt left behind by politicians and the economy in the rust belt. They saw their small and medium sized towns collapsing around them while the media were focusing on minorities (in their eyes) and treating them as if they were particularly privileged when they didn't feel that way at all.

If the democrats don't pivot and appeal more to low income whites they are probably fucked in four years time too. A rainbow collation will never be enough. They and establishment Republicans want to live in a respectful America that just does not exsist. Trump played to the real situation rather than the assumed one.

How exactly did Trump "play to the real situation"?

By demonizing Muslims en masse. By calling climate change a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese government. By appealing to the worst instincts of the GOP base by embracing conspiracy theories, not least about Obama. By making bullshit promises about trade wars and tariffs bringing back manufacturing jobs. By hyping up the "threat" of illegal immigrants and making more bullshit promises about having Mexico pay for a wall the length of the southern border. By equivocating on support from far right racists.

It was populist demogoguery. Are you saying that the Dems need to get down in that gutter too?
The dispossessed weren't enough for a majority. He had to add to them . With dog whistles like misogyny and hatred. He won't be able to put the genie back in the bottle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/09/podesta-e-mail-suggested-strategy-to-elevate-long-shot-gop-candidates/

The Dems need to STFU complaining about Trump.  They only have themselves to blame
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 10, 2016, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/09/podesta-e-mail-suggested-strategy-to-elevate-long-shot-gop-candidates/

The Dems need to STFU complaining about Trump.  They only have themselves to blame

I agree. They put up a candidate that was immensely disliked, even by people who wanted to vote for her.
They chased the minority vote (which is fine) but at the expense of the majority (which is not). The fact that she decided to campaign in Arizona, which is almost always republican, in the last couple of days, rather than in Wisconsin was a big error I think. She basically made the gamble that she could get enough Latinos out in Phoenix and Tucson to vote for her and carry Arizona, rather than concentrating and shoring up the white vote in Wisconsin. When she lost Wisconsin, it was curtains. Same for Pennsylvania.

I have no problem 'chasing' the Latino vote, or the black vote, or the Irish vote, or any other minority vote. But they are called minorities for a reason. American elections are tactical battles as much as anything, and you have to pick your battles. By choosing to over commit on the minority vote, and hoping that Minority + dyed in the wool Democrat would carry enough states, she erred. Minority + Dyed in the wool democrat + floating white middle America = Victory for her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 10, 2016, 12:17:01 PM
The main stream media have a lot to answer for as well and Trump played them like a fiddle.

On the one hand he was getting the crowd to hate them and saying they were creating all these falsehoods against him but in reality I doubt any presidential candidate ever got as much free air time as he did across all platforms and across all media.

Clinton massively outspent him on TV ads but then he was on every news programme calling her all the names of the day and saying crazy shit so he got probably more air time than Clinton at a fraction of the cost!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2016, 12:24:28 PM
I read  arguing reports that said he got anywhere between $1.7B and $3B in free airtime
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 10, 2016, 12:28:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 12:24:28 PM
I read  arguing reports that said he got anywhere between $1.7B and $3B in free airtime

How much primetime as well with all the late night talk show hosts using their monologue pretty much every night to destroy him... no publicity is bad publicity!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 12:34:20 PM
Trump knew how to get airtime better than anyone. A celebrity president for a celebrity obsessed age. These protests are incredibly childish and serve no purpose.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2016, 12:17:01 PM
The main stream media have a lot to answer for as well and Trump played them like a fiddle.

On the one hand he was getting the crowd to hate them and saying they were creating all these falsehoods against him but in reality I doubt any presidential candidate ever got as much free air time as he did across all platforms and across all media.

Clinton massively outspent him on TV ads but then he was on every news programme calling her all the names of the day and saying crazy shit so he got probably more air time than Clinton at a fraction of the cost!!
Yeah.
They kept on repeating the same stuff though. And people wanted a f**k you vote.
Now they are wearing their f**k me boots.

Clinton won 31 out of 35 cities. Trump won the culchies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 12:41:53 PM
This might be the last big win for old white farts. Because the demographics at younger ages are not majority white male.
The US has an unfortunate history of violent change. And long nurtured bitterness.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2016, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on November 10, 2016, 04:46:49 AM
Stew, I wouldn't embrace Donald Trump if I were wearing a Hazmat suit, no more than I would have embraced Ian Paisley at the high point of his demagoguery. He embodies everything I loathe.  No need to enumerate his flaws now.  And if he appoints Giuliani and Gingrich to his cabinet, between the three of them they have amassed nine wives.  This is old school Mormon family values. Book of Mormon, the Sequel.

I do think whitelash is a key factor in Clinton's defeat, a reaction to a number of factors beyond her exaggerated unlikeability--an anti-Obama racism fueled by inherent white racism in America and further stoked by a white electorate that gets its facts from propaganda mills like Breitbart, a racism legitimized by a Republican pledge to obstruct all Obama initiatives.

Of course, Dems should blame themselves too for their smugness, but Trump is right when he says that the election is rigged.  It is.  The Electoral College system is anachronistic and fundamentally undemocratic.  Once again, Dems won the popular vote but not the election.  Absurd.  Add to that the composition of the Senate.  How is it democratic that Rhode Island, a state slightly bigger than Longstone, Bambrook and Lisnally Gardens, gets two senators while California, with an economy larger than France's also gets two?

It is a very dark day here in the States, and I fear for the marginalized under a Trump kingship, and to make matters worse, he is the very antithesis of Plato's philosopher king, he is the embodiment of ignorance. 

I accept the will of the people but don't have to like it, especially since the gullible were motivated by raw appeals to the worst in human nature.  And don't misunderestimate, to quote Bush, the number of adult white males unwilling to accept a woman president.

I have not felt this low since 911.

Well said, Oraisteach.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2016, 12:51:12 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2016, 10:40:16 PM
Thinking about this more, we have lived for the last few decades in the post Soviet Union era. Countries in Eastern Europe left the USSR, joined the EU and even joined NATO.

Along with the UN, the latter 2 organisations were created to prevent another World War. And they succeeded.

Now the UN is redundant, Britain has pulled the plug on the EU, while the US has elected a President who wants to scale down NATO and appears to be under the influence of a particularly menacing Russian dictator.

Yesterday may look, to future historians, as the inexplicable end to a great era.

You are an absolute tool, even you don't believe the President elect is 'under the influence' of anyone let alone that Russian kn**ker!

If you don't believe the shite you spew say fack all you ass hat!

Stew, I think your heart is usually in the right place, but do you not see that contributions like this just make you seem the same as the "lock her up!", "Trump that bitch!" morons whose representative now holds the future of the world in his tiny hands?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2016, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 11:21:44 AMThe dispossessed weren't enough for a majority. He had to add to them . With dog whistles like misogyny and hatred. He won't be able to put the genie back in the bottle.

Maybe this is the point about Clinton being the wrong candidate. What if it had been Bernie countering Trump's appeal to the dispossessed? His appeal probably would not have consisted of stoking up fear and hatred and engendering competition and loathing between minorities. It might have embodied policies that would address the capitalisation of profits at the expense of wages and the re-balancing of the positive benefits of globalisation towards working people and away from the 1%.

He too would still have needed to add to this constituency to win, but his additions would have come from a constituency that values equality, opportunity, openness and growth for all, rather than the one that's comfortable with promoting fear, hatred, racism, misogyny and xenophobia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 01:04:32 PM
The electoral college system favours the Democrats more than the Republicans.

The fact is the states Clinton lost like Michigan and PA are mainly blue states and it's always the Republican chasing the Democrat in them. It's a nice play thing for people who can't get over Trump winning but even it was working against a Trump victory.

He won against a system that made his path to victory very hard, without real support from his nominal party and by spending far less than Clinton. Anyone who thinks he didn't win this one fairly is talking nonsense to be honest. We can argue the methods he used but it's moot now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 10, 2016, 01:05:16 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2016, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 11:21:44 AMThe dispossessed weren't enough for a majority. He had to add to them . With dog whistles like misogyny and hatred. He won't be able to put the genie back in the bottle.

Maybe this is the point about Clinton being the wrong candidate. What if it had been Bernie countering Trump's appeal to the dispossessed? His appeal probably would not have consisted of stoking up fear and hatred and engendering competition and loathing between minorities. It might have embodied policies that would address the capitalisation of profits at the expense of wages and the re-balancing of the positive benefits of globalisation towards working people and away from the 1%.

He too would still have needed to add to this constituency to win, but his additions would have come from a constituency that values equality, opportunity, openness and growth for all, rather than the one that's comfortable with promoting fear, hatred, racism, misogyny and xenophobia.

+1 - Said it here before - I think Sanders would have wiped the floor with him.

Rightly or wrongly, nobody trusted Hillary and she came across as a sneaky operator.  If Bernie had told the people he was going to do something, they'd have believed him.  Unfortunately for Hillary, the people reckoned she'd talk the big talk but once she got into the big house, it'd be 4 years of the same.  They were probably right.  I don't know if they're going to much like the 4 years of change that they plumped for instead though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2016, 01:11:21 PM
The thing is, Clinton didn't even talk the talk effectively. It was going to be hard enough to overcome her credibility deficit anyway, but when she seemed to run whole campaign in reaction to Trump she damaged her chances of overcoming it. I don't remember any articulation of a shining vision, of the America she stood for, or of how people's lives would change. Trump set the agenda and she spent her time saying how awful he is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 10, 2016, 01:16:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/09/podesta-e-mail-suggested-strategy-to-elevate-long-shot-gop-candidates/

The Dems need to STFU complaining about Trump.  They only have themselves to blame

And the following section from the article explains why Bill got elected and Hillary didn't;
"During the Democratic primary, Bill Clinton privately worried to donors that Democrats had, in prioritizing outreach to minority communities, overlooked lower-income white Americans, who had yet to see any of the economic relief that should have come with Obama's promises of "change."

She needed to identify issues that were important across interest groups and communicate her solution, for example, making US manufacturing more competitive and growing the manufacturing sector, pay increases for the low / middle income families, better education etc.

If she'd done that, she would have won  hands down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 10, 2016, 01:28:31 PM
So liberals are offering counseling and puppies to cuddle by universities now in the States, wtf? What a gaggle of pansies.

The liberal press have been found wanting, they are so corrupt they reek, I would say Trump will have a few tetchy pressers during his tenure with these people,should be fun,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 02:06:14 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 12:34:20 PM
Trump knew how to get airtime better than anyone. A celebrity president for a celebrity obsessed age. These protests are incredibly childish and serve no purpose.

I agree absolutely on the protests. Childish waste of time.

Now is the time to get politically active. Get involved and support non-profits for whatever cause concerns you. Tie the Trump admin up in court when they try to make drastic, harmful changes. And work towards the next mid-terms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 10, 2016, 02:08:49 PM
The result and the reaction of people brings the story of Chicken Lickin to mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNkXQYxfIlQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 02:17:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 01:04:32 PM
The electoral college system favours the Democrats more than the Republicans.

The fact is the states Clinton lost like Michigan and PA are mainly blue states and it's always the Republican chasing the Democrat in them. It's a nice play thing for people who can't get over Trump winning but even it was working against a Trump victory.

He won against a system that made his path to victory very hard, without real support from his nominal party and by spending far less than Clinton. Anyone who thinks he didn't win this one fairly is talking nonsense to be honest. We can argue the methods he used but it's moot now.

Is anyone suggesting he DIDN'T win it fairly?

Clinton blew this. I'm horrified that Trump will be president, with all that entails, but I've no personal sympathy for Hillary. All her negative press was self-inflicted.

Yes, the leaks were a one-sided, partisan affair, and some day the shoe will be on the other foot showing that the GOP are up to the same antics ( wouldn't be surprised if they start once Trump is installed), but the whole email fiasco and the blurred lines between her government work and the Clinton Foundation were her own creations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 10, 2016, 02:23:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2016, 05:17:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2016, 05:09:18 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 09, 2016, 04:56:20 PM
QuoteThe poor little lambs!

Mealey mouthed liberals worrying because big bad Donald is coming to town is laughable, these sheep deserve what they think is coming

Thanks for the considered response stew. Said lawyer in my message is of middle eastern parentage and in the last 3 weeks has been followed on numerous occasions on a public road in Boston and called a sand jockey and nigger bitch and go back home we don't want you here. Has reported it to the police but guess what - no response.
A friend's mexican restaurant in Mass was picketed by trump supporters saying we don't want you here and chanting you're going to pay for the wall and again the police authorities refused to act on their complaints. 
So I think they have good reason to be concerned don't you?
Jews are getting a lot of abuse too. #charming

Just like the UK Hate Crimes will sky rocket... but she's not in so it's all OK we'll have our Country back.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1HCm-UcAAak5K.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw5_RpBXEAA3DE0.jpg:large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw3mEe9W8AAlsJN.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw3QxiqXEAEQQxG.jpg)

Not a good time to be an ethnic minority or immigrant in the US!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 10, 2016, 02:33:23 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 01:04:32 PM
The electoral college system favours the Democrats more than the Republicans.

Bush beat Gore in the Electoral college while getting less votes than Gore.
Trump beat Clinton in the Electoral college while getting less votes than Clinton.

Could you explain why you think the electoral college system favours the Democrats more than the Republicans?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 02:33:57 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 01:28:31 PM
So liberals are offering counseling and puppies to cuddle by universities now in the States, wtf? What a gaggle of pansies.

The liberal press have been found wanting, they are so corrupt they reek, I would say Trump will have a few tetchy pressers during his tenure with these people,should be fun,

What nonsense are you on about with the puppy shite? ;D

And seriously, you're singling out liberal journalists??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: dec on November 10, 2016, 02:33:23 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 01:04:32 PM
The electoral college system favours the Democrats more than the Republicans.

Bush beat Gore in the Electoral college while getting less votes than Gore.
Trump beat Clinton in the Electoral college while getting less votes than Clinton.

Could you explain why you think the electoral college system favours the Democrats more than the Republicans?

Add in that, in general, rural votes carry more weight than urban votes. Those wide open western states get a minimum of three electoral votes, no matter how sparse their population.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 02:56:31 PM
The Dem superdelegate system is a stitch up..Clinton would not have won without it. Bernie v Trump would have been fair. But it was Clintons turn. A bit like FF and Cowen.

Probably not a bad election to lose cos the Empire is collapsing.  Trump has to serve the people. And he can't.  The ultra rich own 50% of everything and people cant eat lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 10, 2016, 02:59:20 PM
In fairness, I think that's why he's saying it leans towards Democrats. Because the big states tend to be Blue states, you could potentially get to 270 by just winning California (55), New York (29), Pennsylvania (20), Florida (29), Illinois (20) and a scatter of the new england states. and a couple of other out west.

That's why even in the years Democrats win, the electoral college map looks very red always.  The Republicans have to cover a lot more of the country, as well as trying to take those infamous swing states. If she concentrated just in New England, across new York Pennsylvania and into the northern states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois and Ohio, and then just Florida and California, she'd probably have won.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 03:02:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2016, 01:11:21 PM
The thing is, Clinton didn't even talk the talk effectively. It was going to be hard enough to overcome her credibility deficit anyway, but when she seemed to run whole campaign in reaction to Trump she damaged her chances of overcoming it. I don't remember any articulation of a shining vision, of the America she stood for, or of how people's lives would change. Trump set the agenda and she spent her time saying how awful he is.
The Dem elites believed their own bullshit. Obama is also responsible.  The economy does not work for ordinary people with no college education. Trump will betray them as well. Brexit voters will be shafted too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
Ouch, this clip from the Washington correspondants dinner a number of years back doesn't look too hot for Obama in today's world...

https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4

The Donald would have a wry smile watching this!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 03:07:57 PM
I think the electoral college was designed to prevent populists taking over. The Dem superdelegates definitely were. U S elites never trust the people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2016, 03:09:28 PM
http://metro.co.uk/2016/11/10/man-severely-beaten-by-mob-shouting-you-voted-trump-6248405/

Where's the outrage at this poor guy getting hammered ba bunch of Hillary supporting sc**bag
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:11:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 10, 2016, 02:59:20 PM
In fairness, I think that's why he's saying it leans towards Democrats. Because the big states tend to be Blue states, you could potentially get to 270 by just winning California (55), New York (29), Pennsylvania (20), Florida (29), Illinois (20) and a scatter of the new england states. and a couple of other out west.

That's why even in the years Democrats win, the electoral college map looks very red always.  The Republicans have to cover a lot more of the country, as well as trying to take those infamous swing states. If she concentrated just in New England, across new York Pennsylvania and into the northern states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois and Ohio, and then just Florida and California, she'd probably have won.

But the GOP don't have to cover the vast swathe of rural states. Their support is a given. Similarly, you don't see a Dem nominee campaign much in NYC or LA or SF or Boston, fundraising aside, because those places are locked up for them. We saw very few tv ads in NYC. In Ohio, your phone doesn't stop ringing, and there are literally ads on every three minutes.

The fact is, with Democrats concentrated in big cities and congressional seats gerrymandered to f**k, Dem representation is depressed while GOP respresentation is inflated.

We've already mentioned 2000 and this year's popular vote in the presidential elections. In 2012, a million more people voted for Dems than GOP in house races, yet the GOP held on to a significant majority in the House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2016, 03:12:46 PM
Dems had a huge (self acknowledged) advantage to begin with and are now crying foul on the electoral college system

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/02/republicans-have-a-massive-electoral-map-problem-that-has-nothing-to-do-with-donald-trump/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:14:20 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
Ouch, this clip from the Washington correspondants dinner a number of years back doesn't look too hot for Obama in today's world...

https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4

The Donald would have a wry smile watching this!

Nothing he said wasn't true. That Trump is a joke and a buffoon does not change because of the election. Except of course that the joke is now also on the US people and the world.

Don't forget this was right when Trump was on his birth cert "quest".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 03:17:03 PM
It was like Kildare in the 98 final. All Clinton had to do was turn up. There's Sean Brady from the New York Times. What do you think Sean? 5 points Hillary. All the money that was on them. And she beat Kerry.

The other thing is the hate machine . The rich don't mind the losers voting for Trump. They will not tolerate them voting for someone who will help them. Welcome to St. Trumpez
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:17:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 03:12:46 PM
Dems had a huge (self acknowledged) advantage to begin with and are now crying foul on the electoral college system

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/02/republicans-have-a-massive-electoral-map-problem-that-has-nothing-to-do-with-donald-trump/

That the white population is decreasing doesn't change that rural voters in low population states have a higher weighted vote.

BTW, who is crying foul? Discussing is not complaining.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:14:20 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
Ouch, this clip from the Washington correspondants dinner a number of years back doesn't look too hot for Obama in today's world...

https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4

The Donald would have a wry smile watching this!

Nothing he said wasn't true. That Trump is a joke and a buffoon does not change because of the election. Except of course that the joke is now also on the US people and the world.

Don't forget this was right when Trump was on his birth cert "quest".

Completely agree. I meant that Trump (and his followers) will feel a smug sense of satisfaction looking back on this today, which is hard to stomach.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:31:19 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:14:20 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
Ouch, this clip from the Washington correspondants dinner a number of years back doesn't look too hot for Obama in today's world...

https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4

The Donald would have a wry smile watching this!

Nothing he said wasn't true. That Trump is a joke and a buffoon does not change because of the election. Except of course that the joke is now also on the US people and the world.

Don't forget this was right when Trump was on his birth cert "quest".

Completely agree. I meant that Trump (and his followers) will feel a smug sense of satisfaction looking back on this today, which is hard to stomach.

Let them. Doesn't change the facts!

I'm sure he will try to rub Obama's face in it, but Obama shouldn't feel embarrassed or take it personally that Trump will roll back some of his work. That's just simply the democratic process.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 03:45:14 PM
A lot of Trump material esp online was fact free. Alt right bullshit. You can't run a campaign of fear and hate on facts.
It takes lies to get people to hate brown people. Brexit was exactly the same. Divide and conquer. Trump voters will be so shafted. Afterwards they will be told it is their own fault. Never trust a junkie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thebuzz on November 10, 2016, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 11:18:46 AM
Quote from: Far East on November 10, 2016, 07:06:20 AM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 03:57:46 AM
Whitelash is being blamed On Trump winning the presidency, yes folks some in black America are blaming angr white Americans on Trump being elected, they forget that white America got Obama elected and by the way, ALL Americans should embrace the decision the country made.

I am sick and tired of liberals not owing results, I am tired of their apathy toward the indigenous people of the Americas, I am appalled at their lack,of morality having clinton run representing them, I am sickened by Obamacare and it's skyrocketing costs and I am tired of the lack of respect people have for the office of President, thanks Billy.

Never had you down as advocate of the plight of the native Americans! Please inform us of your activism in this area. I assume you're in North Dakota protesting the destruction of sacred land?  And all this time I thought you were a bitter, right wing plastic Paddy!  I apologise....

You should apologise 2 posts! all this time )

I am bitter toward Clinton, I was, she is politically finished and I have let that go.

As for my leaning 2 posts, I am a social liberal and fiscal conservative and I would love it if both left and right moved to the centre.

President Trump, wow!

Bye bye 2 posts!

I don't have many more posts than Far East and I'm on here back and forward for 7 or 8 years.

There aren't many of 'the indigenous people of the Americas' about at the moment as Far Post is implying so why not admit that this particular phrase doesn't fit instead of being so insulting?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on November 10, 2016, 04:07:58 PM
Apologies if this has been posted already but here are the demographics of the vote:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html?_r=1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on November 10, 2016, 04:18:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 03:45:14 PM
A lot of Trump material esp online was fact free. Alt right bullshit. You can't run a campaign of fear and hate on facts.
It takes lies to get people to hate brown people. Brexit was exactly the same. Divide and conquer. Trump voters will be so shafted. Afterwards they will be told it is their own fault. Never trust a junkie.

You should run for president or world leader - instead of wasting your economic and political talent here you should engage with the hierarchy! Some of the political and economic insight you have as well as a gift of cutting and pasting articles is staggering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 10, 2016, 04:19:38 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 10, 2016, 04:07:58 PM
Apologies if this has been posted already but here are the demographics of the vote:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html?_r=1
`

I had heard some of these already, and they are interesting. Some of it would debunk the notion that only slack jawed yokels voted for Trump too. We are doomed to see the same thing over and over as long as those who should know better keep saying that the 'other side' are idiots. There were obviously some right dicks that voted for Trump, but a lot of good people with genuine concerns over security, corruption and illegal immigration are being lumped in with racists, misogynists and xenophobes. If we keep doing that, then those people will keep voting for candidates who speak to them.

Some interesting cherry picked ones.

58% of white voters voted for Trump.
49% of college educated Whites voted for trump (as opposed to 45% for Clinton)
50% of those with incomes between 50k and 100k, so not just the 'poor, uneducated'
53% of those with incomes under 30k voted for Clinton. (Presumably a lot of the minorities in that number)
50% of those in the suburbs voted for Trump
And key one 48% of independent registered, as opposed to 42% for CLinton.


I like this one though.
Of those who answered that Donald Trump is NOT honest or trustworthy, 21% still voted for him!! :) And 20% who answered NO for Hillary voted for HER! It really was a case of two bad eggs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2016, 04:22:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/09/podesta-e-mail-suggested-strategy-to-elevate-long-shot-gop-candidates/

The Dems need to STFU complaining about Trump.  They only have themselves to blame

What!

You and stew have whined for 8 years about Obama. It is definitely payback time for the next 4 years.  :D

But maybe you need to STFU about the Clintons. They are irrelevant now. It is over for them.

Actually, one good thing to come out of this is an end to the Bush/Clinton dynasties.



Anyway, I will be very, very interested to see if Trump sticks to his September promise on replacing top Generals.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/08/trump-to-our-generals-youre-fired/ (http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/08/trump-to-our-generals-youre-fired/)

...Donald Trump, when asked about how he would get America's military leaders to come up with a plan to defeat the Islamic State, responded, "They'll probably be different generals, to be honest."

Speaking at a televised forum with veterans Wednesday night, the Republican nominee for president explained that our current military leaders "have been losing for us for a long period of time" and indicated that he would replace at many of them with the retired generals and admirals who have endorsed him...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2016, 04:54:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2016, 04:22:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/09/podesta-e-mail-suggested-strategy-to-elevate-long-shot-gop-candidates/

The Dems need to STFU complaining about Trump.  They only have themselves to blame

What!

You and stew have whined for 8 years about Obama. It is definitely payback time for the next 4 years.  :D

But maybe you need to STFU about the Clintons. They are irrelevant now. It is over for them.

Actually, one good thing to come out of this is an end to the Bush/Clinton dynasties.



Anyway, I will be very, very interested to see if Trump sticks to his September promise on replacing top Generals.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/08/trump-to-our-generals-youre-fired/ (http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/08/trump-to-our-generals-youre-fired/)

...Donald Trump, when asked about how he would get America's military leaders to come up with a plan to defeat the Islamic State, responded, "They'll probably be different generals, to be honest."

Speaking at a televised forum with veterans Wednesday night, the Republican nominee for president explained that our current military leaders "have been losing for us for a long period of time" and indicated that he would replace at many of them with the retired generals and admirals who have endorsed him...

How's the double short ETF working out for you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2016, 04:55:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 04:54:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2016, 04:22:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/09/podesta-e-mail-suggested-strategy-to-elevate-long-shot-gop-candidates/

The Dems need to STFU complaining about Trump.  They only have themselves to blame

What!

You and stew have whined for 8 years about Obama. It is definitely payback time for the next 4 years.  :D

But maybe you need to STFU about the Clintons. They are irrelevant now. It is over for them.

Actually, one good thing to come out of this is an end to the Bush/Clinton dynasties.



Anyway, I will be very, very interested to see if Trump sticks to his September promise on replacing top Generals.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/08/trump-to-our-generals-youre-fired/ (http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/08/trump-to-our-generals-youre-fired/)

...Donald Trump, when asked about how he would get America's military leaders to come up with a plan to defeat the Islamic State, responded, "They'll probably be different generals, to be honest."

Speaking at a televised forum with veterans Wednesday night, the Republican nominee for president explained that our current military leaders "have been losing for us for a long period of time" and indicated that he would replace at many of them with the retired generals and admirals who have endorsed him...

How's the double short ETF working out for you?

Funnily enough I heard a markets guy on the radio this morning describing the bounce in the market, after the shock, on exactly what you predicted a couple of days ago!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2016, 05:00:55 PM
Unfortunately I can't take any credit.....Inwork for some super smart people

I do see prison stocks surged though

Firearms manufacturers maybe not so much....people won't need to start stockpiling arms and munitions now that Hillary won't be getting in
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 10, 2016, 05:08:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 05:00:55 PM
Unfortunately I can't take any credit.....Inwork for some super smart people

I do see prison stocks surged though

Firearms manufacturers maybe not so much....people won't need to start stockpiling arms and munitions now that Hillary won't be getting in

Surprisingly enough, gun shop owner's will be unhappy with a Republican President. Obama was a god send for the gun industry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 05:52:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2016, 05:00:55 PM
Unfortunately I can't take any credit.....Inwork for some super smart people

I do see prison stocks surged though

Firearms manufacturers maybe not so much....people won't need to start stockpiling arms and munitions now that Hillary won't be getting in
prison numbers crested in 2007. 5 million.  Up from 2 million in 1980. Welcome to Gopistan.
The 2 biggest private companies are amongst the biggest GOP donors  Private prisons are the most dangerous.

Guess which ethnic group has the highest levels of incarceration.

The US looks great when things are working but when they aren't it looks dreadful.

Vet suicides since 1999 are  over 100 thousand

Compare to 911.

1500 vets have no testicles.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on November 10, 2016, 05:58:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 05:52:52 PM
.
1500 vets have no testicles.

Bollocks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 05:59:03 PM
Quote from: No wides on November 10, 2016, 05:58:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 05:52:52 PM
.
1500 vets have no testicles.

Bollocks.
Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2016, 06:10:21 PM
Regarding prisons, watch 13th on Netflix.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 10, 2016, 06:20:23 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:14:20 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
Ouch, this clip from the Washington correspondants dinner a number of years back doesn't look too hot for Obama in today's world...

https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4

The Donald would have a wry smile watching this!

Nothing he said wasn't true. That Trump is a joke and a buffoon does not change because of the election. Except of course that the joke is now also on the US people and the world.

Don't forget this was right when Trump was on his birth cert "quest".

Completely agree. I meant that Trump (and his followers) will feel a smug sense of satisfaction looking back on this today, which is hard to stomach.

To be fair Hillary supporters had a smug sense of satisfaction for the past year believing she was certain to win. There's a lesson to be learned.

And to watch these protests is such a hoot. These little turds shouting slogans incuding BLM. FFS.
Democrats aghast when Trump said he was unsure if he'd accept the result of the election but now they've lost they can't accept it. Hillaryous! Not so smug now or tolerant of all people, only the ones they choose.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 10, 2016, 06:37:09 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:14:20 PM


Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
Ouch, this clip from the Washington correspondants dinner a number of years back doesn't look too hot for Obama in today's world...

https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4

The Donald would have a wry smile watching this!

Nothing he said wasn't true. That Trump is a joke and a buffoon does not change because of the election. Except of course that the joke is now also on the US people and the world.

Don't forget this was right when Trump was on his birth cert "quest".

Completely agree. I meant that Trump (and his followers) will feel a smug sense of satisfaction looking back on this today, which is hard to stomach.


A lot of conservative and Republican people despise Trump. I mean a lot of them, me, I am delighted Hillory will never be President but feel absolutely no be a for Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2016, 06:10:21 PM
Regarding prisons, watch 13th on Netflix.
Can any TV show or film capture the reality of systematic rape? The US army is similar.
Violence is one of the things that defines the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 10, 2016, 06:55:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2016, 06:10:21 PM
Regarding prisons, watch 13th on Netflix.
Can any TV show or film capture the reality of systematic rape? The US army is similar.
Violence is one of the things that defines the US.
watch the tv series oz
On another note high school kids leave class to protest trump in San Francisco while adults on the street cheer them on what a facked up city inhabited by morons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 06:57:10 PM
Quote from: dec on November 10, 2016, 02:33:23 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2016, 01:04:32 PM
The electoral college system favours the Democrats more than the Republicans.

Bush beat Gore in the Electoral college while getting less votes than Gore.
Trump beat Clinton in the Electoral college while getting less votes than Clinton.

Could you explain why you think the electoral college system favours the Democrats more than the Republicans?

More votes are in mainline democrat states. The 2000 election was an incredible anomaly where but for a court case the result would've been different. This was an election lost because Clinton lost blue states. Trump could have won Ohio and Florida and still lost if Clinton had kept her own house in order. Trump needed those states while she didn't - hence he system favoured her not Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 09:01:03 PM
The big issue in the US is the distribution of wealth. The richest 1000 people own 100 times more now than the comparable 1000 in the 60s.
And they will not share that.
They couldn't tolerate Bernie. They can't tolerate anyone who wants to change things.
Trump is fine cos he will protect them. He's like psy ops. All means to attract and distract . Nobody knows what he stands for.

The only thing that counts is median wage. If that doesn't go up the US is fucked.

Without any change there can't be any growth. 

Rap is getting very interesting. People at the sharp end are used to being shafted and know how power works . Poor liberals are just waking up to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUC2EQvdzmY
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2016, 09:02:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2016, 06:10:21 PM
Regarding prisons, watch 13th on Netflix.
Can any TV show or film capture the reality of systematic rape? The US army is similar.
Violence is one of the things that defines the US.

we put the effort in for about 30 odd years!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2016, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 06:37:09 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:14:20 PM


Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
Ouch, this clip from the Washington correspondants dinner a number of years back doesn't look too hot for Obama in today's world...

https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4

The Donald would have a wry smile watching this!

Nothing he said wasn't true. That Trump is a joke and a buffoon does not change because of the election. Except of course that the joke is now also on the US people and the world.

Don't forget this was right when Trump was on his birth cert "quest".

Completely agree. I meant that Trump (and his followers) will feel a smug sense of satisfaction looking back on this today, which is hard to stomach.


A lot of conservative and Republican people despise Trump. I mean a lot of them, me, I am delighted Hillory will never be President but feel absolutely no be a for Trump.

I get that.

I feel no personal sympathy for Hillary, but given the wider implications with respect to policy and the courts, would have been delighted had she beaten Trump (the endless House hearings and investigations aside!).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 10, 2016, 09:20:22 PM
Trump very conciliatory and respectful of Obama... Is there a chance he'll soften now and be a bit more statesmanlike now he doesn't have to chase votes??

Or could it be as stew reckoned from the start he's a Democrat in wolfs clothing??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 10, 2016, 09:35:19 PM
Is she seeking free superbowl tickets?

https://mobile.twitter.com/MulherinFG/status/796294561073131520
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2016, 09:41:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2016, 06:10:21 PM
Regarding prisons, watch 13th on Netflix.

And follow up by watching "United States Of ALEC" on YouTube. One of the biggest factors in the growth of prison populations is the activities of ALEC (the American Legislative Exchange Council, a formal coalition of corporations and state legislators) in not just influencing, but effectively framing sentencing policies and legislation.

I'm sure I'm not alone in never fully appreciating how the direct input of corporations to lawmaking in the states (i.e. in the individual states) is actually formalised. In many states they are directly drafting the laws, which are then rubber-stamped by their state legislator ALEC-member colleagues.

Among countless examples, CCA, the biggest private prison corporation in the US, effectively drives sentencing policies in many states by using its membership of ALEC to get laws enacted that ensure their prison populations continue to grow and deliver profits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2016, 10:04:58 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2016, 09:41:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2016, 06:10:21 PM
Regarding prisons, watch 13th on Netflix.

And follow up by watching "United States Of ALEC" on YouTube. One of the biggest factors in the growth of prison populations is the activities of ALEC (the American Legislative Exchange Council, a formal coalition of corporations and state legislators) in not just influencing, but effectively framing sentencing policies and legislation.

I'm sure I'm not alone in never fully appreciating how the direct input of corporations to lawmaking in the states (i.e. in the individual states) is actually formalised. In many states they are directly drafting the laws, which are then rubber-stamped by their state legislator ALEC-member colleagues.

Among countless examples, CCA, the biggest private prison corporation in the US, effectively drives sentencing policies in many states by using its membership of ALEC to get laws enacted that ensure their prison populations continue to grow and deliver profits.


* Spoiler *

The above is massive. I will look up that video, but I Google ALEC after watching 13th.

What is called lobbying is basically a crime against humanity.

The whole thing would make you sick.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 10:14:55 PM
FT

Private prison companies, for example, are uniquely dependent upon the ebbs and flows of government funding. August's decision by the Department of Justice to stop contracting private prison operators such as Geo Group for federal detainees hit their shares; hopes of this ruling being repealed sent them soaring on Wednesday. The enthusiasm was based on positive comments from president-in-waiting Donald Trump about private prisons (despite their cost effectiveness being called into doubt by academic studies).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2016, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 02:56:31 PM
The Dem superdelegate system is a stitch up..Clinton would not have won without it. Bernie v Trump would have been fair. But it was Clintons turn. A bit like FF and Cowen.

Clinton got 3.7 million more votes than Sanders in the primaries, 16.9m to 13.2m.

I'd have voted Bernie had I had a vote, but it's wrong to say Clinton would not have won without superdelegates. By any stretch of the imagination, pledged delegates, all delegates, popular vote, she was the legitimate nominee.

But the delegate system (particularly the Democratic superdelegates) and the electoral college are both awful systems.

It's incredible in this day and age that the US election is not organised on a standardised basis nationwide in terms of things like voter eligibility, polling hours and method of voting.

The US system claims to be one (wo)man, one vote.

But each vote cast across the nation clearly does not count equally. In what is effectively a straight two-way race for President, it's utterly baffling that the person getting the most votes losing the election is not a major issue, and that's twice in five elections it's happened now.

So much for "the Democrats having the advantage in the electoral college".

The position of President is national one, the method of electing the President is decided to a disproportionate level by the partisan acts of states and state politicians. That is an utter disgrace.

"States' rights" is a euphemism, a loaded term which was used to justify segregationist laws in southern states. Today it's used to justify thinly veiled racist practices like voter suppression.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2016, 10:22:02 PM
If fairness to the US, at least most of them get a vote for President.

The EU doesn't offer us that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 10, 2016, 10:26:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2016, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2016, 06:37:09 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2016, 03:14:20 PM


Quote from: omagh_gael on November 10, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
Ouch, this clip from the Washington correspondants dinner a number of years back doesn't look too hot for Obama in today's world...

https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4

The Donald would have a wry smile watching this!

Nothing he said wasn't true. That Trump is a joke and a buffoon does not change because of the election. Except of course that the joke is now also on the US people and the world.

Don't forget this was right when Trump was on his birth cert "quest".

Completely agree. I meant that Trump (and his followers) will feel a smug sense of satisfaction looking back on this today, which is hard to stomach.


A lot of conservative and Republican people despise Trump. I mean a lot of them, me, I am delighted Hillory will never be President but feel absolutely no be a for Trump.

I get that.

I feel no personal sympathy for Hillary, but given the wider implications with respect to policy and the courts, would have been delighted had she beaten Trump (the endless House hearings and investigations aside!).

Id agree with that alot of people are distraught about Clinton, might be as much the woman president thing as anything which I get, but the harsh truth is thats just an appeal to novelty.

She didn't win because she nothing for people to get excited about, and she done nothing but talk about Trump. Her presidency would have been the status quo very much remaining, which may or may not be better than Trump (prob the former to be fair). Cant help think that the real nominee should have been Bernie Sanders,he would have been very strong in the swing states and went straight for Trumps base. Wishful thinking maybe

On a side note its nice to see Stew and j70 agreeing. I actually find myself agreeing with you both alot, I dont know how you seem to fall out so much.

Its like yis are singing from the same hymn sheet but arguing about which key.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 10, 2016, 10:47:33 PM
Had Sanders won Bloomberg would have thrown his hat in the ring and we'd still be exactly where we are currently!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 10, 2016, 10:49:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2016, 10:47:33 PM
Had Sanders won Bloomberg would have thrown his hat in the ring and we'd  still possibly be exactly where we are currently!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 11, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong????

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 11, 2016, 03:12:51 AM
(http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/11/10/a3771ad2-ecd3-4588-9758-c604bbe68627/thumbnail/620x350/79a56d3d67b4a0ab0a1415e42085af6e/screen-shot-2016-11-10-at-1-34-11-pm.png)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Far East on November 11, 2016, 03:47:03 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong????

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.
Are these native Americans you referred to yesterday? I thought liberals would have been more likely to sympathise with their plight. 3rd post by the way. What are you going to do when you run out of fingers and toes

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 10:04:16 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw-QgCaWIAA-C27.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 11, 2016, 10:11:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2016, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 02:56:31 PM
The Dem superdelegate system is a stitch up..Clinton would not have won without it. Bernie v Trump would have been fair. But it was Clintons turn. A bit like FF and Cowen.

Clinton got 3.7 million more votes than Sanders in the primaries, 16.9m to 13.2m.

I'd have voted Bernie had I had a vote, but it's wrong to say Clinton would not have won without superdelegates. By any stretch of the imagination, pledged delegates, all delegates, popular vote, she was the legitimate nominee.

But the delegate system (particularly the Democratic superdelegates) and the electoral college are both awful systems.

It's incredible in this day and age that the US election is not organised on a standardised basis nationwide in terms of things like voter eligibility, polling hours and method of voting.

The US system claims to be one (wo)man, one vote.

But each vote cast across the nation clearly does not count equally. In what is effectively a straight two-way race for President, it's utterly baffling that the person getting the most votes losing the election is not a major issue, and that's twice in five elections it's happened now.

So much for "the Democrats having the advantage in the electoral college".

The position of President is national one, the method of electing the President is decided to a disproportionate level by the partisan acts of states and state politicians. That is an utter disgrace.

"States' rights" is a euphemism, a loaded term which was used to justify segregationist laws in southern states. Today it's used to justify thinly veiled racist practices like voter suppression.

Democrats due have the advantage in the electrical college and Hillary's campaign screwed up. She lost states that were historically Democrat, due to the campaign ignoring the white non college educated working class, who indecently voted for Obama, and have been loyal to the democrats for the past 30 odd years.

Bill identified this during the primary and it cost Hillary.

And the sad think is that there are common grievances between the white working classes and African Americans, immigrants etc, education, employment and healthcare. She failed to deliver a clear coherent message / solution on these issues and it cost her.

All the protesters should stop wasting their time protesting about Trump, and instead focus on influencing senators to ensure they fight any of Trump's controversial proposals and pushing him to consider democrat polices (which they easily could do since he is not a committed republican) Additionally, the protesters should focus on 4 years time, and influence the DNC on policy and candidate selection
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 10:22:11 AM
I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2016, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 10:22:11 AM
I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?
I don't think Trump will fix anything . The core problem is the 1%. He works for them. Maybe he will cancel Obamacare. But the problem is much deeper. It is rent seeking at every level.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2016, 10:58:54 AM
This is a must-read

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 11, 2016, 10:59:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 10:22:11 AM
I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?

The American system actually works in this scenario. So OK, the Republicans are in control at the moment, but historically, they have two years now to make real progress on their program. Otherwise the normal trend of the house or senate flipping over to democrat control to check the power of the President will happen .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2016, 10:59:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2016, 10:22:02 PM
If fairness to the US, at least most of them get a vote for President.

The EU doesn't offer us that.
Right. But our German overlords are not interested in a war . They learnt their lesson in 1945.
Americans did not. 

Here is some music Trump could use. It would really work with the deplorables in Wisconsin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc-DgRO1SrQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 11, 2016, 11:29:43 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

Only some of America. The part that's endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan and the like -
Clinton 60,274,974
Trump 59,937,338
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2016, 11:39:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2016, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2016, 02:56:31 PM
The Dem superdelegate system is a stitch up..Clinton would not have won without it. Bernie v Trump would have been fair. But it was Clintons turn. A bit like FF and Cowen.

Clinton got 3.7 million more votes than Sanders in the primaries, 16.9m to 13.2m.

I'd have voted Bernie had I had a vote, but it's wrong to say Clinton would not have won without superdelegates. By any stretch of the imagination, pledged delegates, all delegates, popular vote, she was the legitimate nominee.

But the delegate system (particularly the Democratic superdelegates) and the electoral college are both awful systems.

It's incredible in this day and age that the US election is not organised on a standardised basis nationwide in terms of things like voter eligibility, polling hours and method of voting.

The US system claims to be one (wo)man, one vote.

But each vote cast across the nation clearly does not count equally. In what is effectively a straight two-way race for President, it's utterly baffling that the person getting the most votes losing the election is not a major issue, and that's twice in five elections it's happened now.

So much for "the Democrats having the advantage in the electoral college".

The position of President is national one, the method of electing the President is decided to a disproportionate level by the partisan acts of states and state politicians. That is an utter disgrace.

"States' rights" is a euphemism, a loaded term which was used to justify segregationist laws in southern states. Today it's used to justify thinly veiled racist practices like voter suppression.
It's more complex than the final vote, Sid.
the wiklileaks showed what happened at the DNC level.,
Wasserman Schultz had to resign
Clinton was a poor candidate and she was railroaded through by the executive with the support of a compliant media.
Because it was so obvious. She would walk it.

"We're up for Sam. It's only a matter of just toggin out. There's Sean Brady goin in. What do you think, Debbie ?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yppU34GzDp8&index=5&list=PL83k39XYgY9kymEFyWVAN_34tFt8I8B6Y

And the "donors" like Mark Cuban didn't want Bernie. Because they didn't like what he was saying. He sounded like a t**ker.
Very bad call. The voters didn't want a shifty nerd.

I bought the NYT yesterday for a laugh.

Page 1 "Rivals failed the gauge his appeal to workers"
"We are close to a political tipping point " By Thomas L Friedman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwFaSpca_3Q
Page 16 "the world's most trusted perspective"

Maybe they were advised by Kieran Shannon.

This election is a disaster for US newspapers, pollsters , the Dem system etc.
The Feng Shui is all over the shop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2016, 11:42:13 AM
This  is worth a re read

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432876/donald-trump-white-working-class-dysfunction-real-opportunity-needed-not-trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong????

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.

It went wrong because a flawed, status quo candidate was beaten, in the electoral college, by a demagogue playing to the basest instincts and manipulating the fears of a lot of scared, frustrated and misguided people.

It's happened many times before in history. Why would the US be immune?

Trump lost the popular vote. More people wanted Hillary. He would be well advised to heed that. He won't, though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 11:53:11 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 11, 2016, 10:59:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 10:22:11 AM
I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?

The American system actually works in this scenario. So OK, the Republicans are in control at the moment, but historically, they have two years now to make real progress on their program. Otherwise the normal trend of the house or senate flipping over to democrat control to check the power of the President will happen .

Problem is that after a strong 2012, a lot of Democratic senate seats in competitive or red states will be for reelection. That said, Trump's excesses could be just the spur to allow them to hold them.

The House is so gerrymandered that it would take a Dem wave election to flip it.

And then there's the issue that young people don't vote in mid-terms. Old people make up a far higher proportion than in presidential elections. And they tend to be right wing, at least the white ones.

But again, if Trump goes off the deep end, the backlash might precipitate Democratic turnout.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 11, 2016, 11:57:07 AM
Does the popular vote really prove that though? Or does it just prove that Trump picked his battles and didn't bother too much with the populous states like California and New York because he knew he wouldn't win there, so he concentrated his energies on winning the popular vote in the states where the electoral college votes were in play.

If I know California's millions are going to go to Hillary anyway, why do I waste more energy than I need there?

Now if every vote counted 1 for 1, maybe Trump would have campaigned more in California, and Clinton would have in Texas, and there'd be a different popular vote result. But you can't really say it proves one thing or the other..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 11, 2016, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 11:53:11 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 11, 2016, 10:59:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 10:22:11 AM
I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?

The American system actually works in this scenario. So OK, the Republicans are in control at the moment, but historically, they have two years now to make real progress on their program. Otherwise the normal trend of the house or senate flipping over to democrat control to check the power of the President will happen .

Problem is that after a strong 2012, a lot of Democratic senate seats in competitive or red states will be for reelection. That said, Trump's excesses could be just the spur to allow them to hold them.

The House is so gerrymandered that it would take a Dem wave election to flip it.

And then there's the issue that young people don't vote in mid-terms. Old people make up a far higher proportion than in presidential elections. And they tend to be right wing, at least the white ones.

But again, if Trump goes off the deep end, the backlash might precipitate Democratic turnout.

Referring to an earlier point I made, the young protesters should stop planning street protests and interrupting Trump's inauguration, and start planning on getting the vote out for the next mid term
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2016, 12:05:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong????

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.

It went wrong because a flawed, status quo candidate was beaten, in the electoral college, by a demagogue playing to the basest instincts and manipulating the fears of a lot of scared, frustrated and misguided people.

It's happened many times before in history. Why would the US be immune?

Trump lost the popular vote. More people wanted Hillary. He would be well advised to heed that. He won't, though.
White revenge is not smart. Because the demographics are not favourable. Unless Trump is thinking genocide. That is how Turkey sorted out its Armenian problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 12:06:37 PM
Yes, they both picked their battles. As they always do.

But I'm not sure what your point is AZ?

More people voted for Clinton. That is a fact. Usually that translates into an electoral college win, even when campaigning is focused on select states, as it always is. Occasionally the anomaly occurs. It shows how tight the division is.

If Trump had won the popular vote and lost the electoral college, he and the right would be screaming about "mandates" (leaving aside the possible fraud bullshit).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 12:08:18 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 11, 2016, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 11:53:11 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 11, 2016, 10:59:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 10:22:11 AM
I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?

The American system actually works in this scenario. So OK, the Republicans are in control at the moment, but historically, they have two years now to make real progress on their program. Otherwise the normal trend of the house or senate flipping over to democrat control to check the power of the President will happen .

Problem is that after a strong 2012, a lot of Democratic senate seats in competitive or red states will be for reelection. That said, Trump's excesses could be just the spur to allow them to hold them.

The House is so gerrymandered that it would take a Dem wave election to flip it.

And then there's the issue that young people don't vote in mid-terms. Old people make up a far higher proportion than in presidential elections. And they tend to be right wing, at least the white ones.

But again, if Trump goes off the deep end, the backlash might precipitate Democratic turnout.

Referring to an earlier point I made, the young protesters should stop planning street protests and interrupting Trump's inauguration, and start planning on getting the vote out for the next mid term

Absolutely.

Idiots, the lot of them. Put the energy into proper activism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2016, 12:11:59 PM
Money is pouring into healthcare and financial shares. Cos Trump won't fix anything. Healthcare is already twice as expensive as in Europe. It provides a big chunk of 1% income.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 11, 2016, 12:15:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 12:06:37 PM
Yes, they both picked their battles. As they always do.

But I'm not sure what your point is AZ?

More people voted for Clinton. That is a fact. Usually that translates into an electoral college win, even when campaigning is focused on select states, as it always is. Occasionally the anomaly occurs. It shows how tight the division is.

If Trump had won the popular vote and lost the electoral college, he and the right would be screaming about "mandates" (leaving aside the possible fraud bullshit).

I'm just questioning the point that more people would automatically prefer Clinton to Trump, based on the result of this vote. (I obviously accept that in this election, more people voted for her).

What I'm saying is he played the game as it was laid out before him, and his approach probably cost him 'popular votes', because he ignored very large states that he knew would be blue.

If the game was different, and he campaigned hard in CA and NY (for example) because he knew a million votes would be a million votes, then who knows what the result would be.

So, my point is it's kind of pointless talking about the popular vote, when the popular vote is not what was being contested. It's like saying your team should have won because they had more scores than the opposition, so they won 0-11 to 5-5.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 12:26:22 PM
2 and a half days he lasted before f**king up...

First he posts this:

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-11/11/6/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane01/sub-buzz-25733-1478863821-1.png?no-auto)

Then he remembers he posted this when Obama was elected:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrFBpnHWgAUOcZi.jpg)

Now this...

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r63/loopyglock/TRUMP.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 01:05:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 11, 2016, 12:15:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 12:06:37 PM
Yes, they both picked their battles. As they always do.

But I'm not sure what your point is AZ?

More people voted for Clinton. That is a fact. Usually that translates into an electoral college win, even when campaigning is focused on select states, as it always is. Occasionally the anomaly occurs. It shows how tight the division is.

If Trump had won the popular vote and lost the electoral college, he and the right would be screaming about "mandates" (leaving aside the possible fraud bullshit).

I'm just questioning the point that more people would automatically prefer Clinton to Trump, based on the result of this vote. (I obviously accept that in this election, more people voted for her).

What I'm saying is he played the game as it was laid out before him, and his approach probably cost him 'popular votes', because he ignored very large states that he knew would be blue.

If the game was different, and he campaigned hard in CA and NY (for example) because he knew a million votes would be a million votes, then who knows what the result would be.

So, my point is it's kind of pointless talking about the popular vote, when the popular vote is not what was being contested. It's like saying your team should have won because they had more scores than the opposition, so they won 0-11 to 5-5.

But no one is saying Hillary won the election or that Trump's win is illegitimate.

The point is that he doesn't exactly have a strong mandate. He won't care, but he should, because the trend in presidential elections is very clear. When Republicans win, its very, very tight, and in two of their last three wins they have lost the popular vote.

Then again, maybe that's a strength, in that Democrats HAVE to put the two together, while Republicans don't.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 11, 2016, 01:11:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 12:26:22 PM
2 and a half days he lasted before f**king up...

First he posts this:

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-11/11/6/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane01/sub-buzz-25733-1478863821-1.png?no-auto)

Then he remembers he posted this when Obama was elected:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrFBpnHWgAUOcZi.jpg)

Now this...

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r63/loopyglock/TRUMP.jpg)


Very few Americans are happy right now, Trump needs to surround himself with centralists from both parties, people who can come together and get things done, he needs experienced, organized people and be needs to clean house at the dept of justice and FBI.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 11, 2016, 01:12:04 PM
I think ye are putting too much weight on the popular vote. It's like a comfort blanket. Trump won, but he didn't win the popular vote.

My point is, it's irrelevant. The popular vote was never up for grabs, so it doesn't make it any better at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 01:20:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 11, 2016, 01:12:04 PM
I think ye are putting too much weight on the popular vote. It's like a comfort blanket. Trump won, but he didn't win the popular vote.

My point is, it's irrelevant. The popular vote was never up for grabs, so it doesn't make it any better at all.

I'm not saying it is a comfort nor am I putting much weight on it. Trump will govern from the way out on the right regardless and there's nothing anyone can do about that for now.

I'm merely saying that Trump's win was very narrow and given that he lost the popular vote, he doesn't have much of a mandate and it wouldn't take much to swing things back. It was hardly a ringing endorsement from the people, in other words.

But, I don't see that making a difference. Just like it didn't with Bush.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 11, 2016, 01:24:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 12:26:22 PM
2 and a half days he lasted before f**king up...

First he posts this:

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-11/11/6/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane01/sub-buzz-25733-1478863821-1.png?no-auto)

Then he remembers he posted this when Obama was elected:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrFBpnHWgAUOcZi.jpg)

Now this...

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r63/loopyglock/TRUMP.jpg)

"Our great country...."    See, he's already made America great again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 11, 2016, 01:28:30 PM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 01:11:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 12:26:22 PM
2 and a half days he lasted before f**king up...

First he posts this:

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-11/11/6/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane01/sub-buzz-25733-1478863821-1.png?no-auto)

Then he remembers he posted this when Obama was elected:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrFBpnHWgAUOcZi.jpg)

Now this...

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r63/loopyglock/TRUMP.jpg)

Did you need a dog to pet after President Trump got elected? Maybe a cup of coffee or some counselling after such an unfair Democratic election?

Send me your address and I will send you a participation trophy petal.

Very few Americans are happy right now, Trump needs to surround himself with centralists from both parties, people who can come together and get things done, he needs experienced, organized people and be needs to clean house at the dept of justice and FBI.
That it is it in a nutshell.

On a more important note what sort of Leader will Pence make?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2016, 01:36:22 PM
The popular vote is not relevant. They have to fix the US. Do they have the balls to take on the vested interests or not? Or is it all bullshit ? This is senior hurling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on November 11, 2016, 01:41:33 PM
https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/51-the-most-powerful-clown (https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/51-the-most-powerful-clown)

The Most Powerful Clown
In this episode of the Waking Up podcast, Sam Harris talks about the results of the 2016 presidential election and the prospects of a President Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 11, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 01:20:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 11, 2016, 01:12:04 PM
I think ye are putting too much weight on the popular vote. It's like a comfort blanket. Trump won, but he didn't win the popular vote.

My point is, it's irrelevant. The popular vote was never up for grabs, so it doesn't make it any better at all.

I'm not saying it is a comfort nor am I putting much weight on it. Trump will govern from the way out on the right regardless and there's nothing anyone can do about that for now.

I'm merely saying that Trump's win was very narrow and given that he lost the popular vote, he doesn't have much of a mandate and it wouldn't take much to swing things back. It was hardly a ringing endorsement from the people, in other words.

But, I don't see that making a difference. Just like it didn't with Bush.

Apologies J70, I might be mixing you up with other guys. I've seen this sentiment on facebook and in the media. The 'at least most of the country voted for Clinton, so we are not so bad'. It's another flavour of the 'only rednecks vote for Trump'. And I just believe it's irrelevant at best, and unhelpful at worst. I've seen petitions to change the electoral system, and we've all seen the protests by people who are not happy at the result.

If people focus on the electoral system, believing that an election fought on a national popular vote would have produced a different winner, then they are looking at the wrong problem. The problem is not that Trump won the electoral college, it's that their campaign was poorly run, and they never managed to find a logical connection with the people Trump was engaging with. Surely there's a saner approach to illegal immigration and the security situation than 'Build a Wall' and 'Send them all home'. That the Democrats never managed to get that message over is the biggest issue. Again, looking at demographics, more people in the 50k to 100k demographic voted for Trump than Clinton. That should frighten the Democrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 01:11:27 PM
Did you need a dog to pet after President Trump got elected? Maybe a cup of coffee or some counselling after such an unfair Democratic election?

Send me your address and I will send you a participation trophy petal.

Very few Americans are happy right now, Trump needs to surround himself with centralists from both parties, people who can come together and get things done, he needs experienced, organized people and be needs to clean house at the dept of justice and FBI.

I literally have no idea what you are talking about... as you have noted previously it must be due to my unedudication!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 11, 2016, 02:09:30 PM
i suppose the big surprise was that Hilary lost, but after that in essence there is not that much to choose between them.
Did anybody read (during election campaign)  those quotes from both candidates and try to figure out who said what? I got most wrong.

I don't think it matters much who got elected. Already we've seen Trump, Clinton and Ryan do a 180° flipflop in terms of what they had
been saying just days ago.
Democrat presidents are just a supportive of destructive capitalism as republican presidents are and just as warmongering. Perhaps republicans are that bit more strident.

The vast majority  (85%?) of election promises are broken. Obama promised to shut down Gitmo and  8 years later it's still there. Trump promised to build a wall on the border of Mexico, a wall that Mexico will pay for. I don't see that happening. The Republicans have long wanted to repeal the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), and now it is pretty certain that they will make some changes. But those changes are not likely to be as radical as some may fear.

Probably there will be more polarization with Trump as president,  more scope for radical social  protest, social change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 11, 2016, 02:13:22 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html)

Historical review?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 11, 2016, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 11, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 01:20:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 11, 2016, 01:12:04 PM
I think ye are putting too much weight on the popular vote. It's like a comfort blanket. Trump won, but he didn't win the popular vote.

My point is, it's irrelevant. The popular vote was never up for grabs, so it doesn't make it any better at all.

I'm not saying it is a comfort nor am I putting much weight on it. Trump will govern from the way out on the right regardless and there's nothing anyone can do about that for now.

I'm merely saying that Trump's win was very narrow and given that he lost the popular vote, he doesn't have much of a mandate and it wouldn't take much to swing things back. It was hardly a ringing endorsement from the people, in other words.

But, I don't see that making a difference. Just like it didn't with Bush.

Apologies J70, I might be mixing you up with other guys. I've seen this sentiment on facebook and in the media. The 'at least most of the country voted for Clinton, so we are not so bad'. It's another flavour of the 'only rednecks vote for Trump'. And I just believe it's irrelevant at best, and unhelpful at worst. I've seen petitions to change the electoral system, and we've all seen the protests by people who are not happy at the result.

If people focus on the electoral system, believing that an election fought on a national popular vote would have produced a different winner, then they are looking at the wrong problem. The problem is not that Trump won the electoral college, it's that their campaign was poorly run, and they never managed to find a logical connection with the people Trump was engaging with. Surely there's a saner approach to illegal immigration and the security situation than 'Build a Wall' and 'Send them all home'. That the Democrats never managed to get that message over is the biggest issue. Again, looking at demographics, more people in the 50k to 100k demographic voted for Trump than Clinton. That should frighten the Democrats.
i think Hillary is up 1/2 million votes nationwide but over 2 million of that is in California which is so far left and has a huge Latino population plus she got 55 for that state , trump has 290 right now and will end up with more ,he kicked her ass big time plus the dems lost both houses and really it's a rejection of the direction the country is going in imore than anything else
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 11, 2016, 03:02:11 PM
Wayne Barrett, Who Wrote the Book on Trump, Is Still Reporting
By Jennifer Gonnerman , November 10, 2016

At 10:30 on Wednesday morning, the investigative reporter Wayne Barrett, who is seventy-one years old, sat propped up in bed, covers pulled up to his chin, a green-eyed cat curled up beside him. An oxygen tank stood at the foot of his bed; his pillbox was nearby. On the television in the corner, Kellyanne Conway, Donald Trump's campaign manager, was gloating about her candidate's victory in the Presidential election.

There may be no journalist in the nation who knows more about Trump than Barrett. He started writing about him at the Village Voice in the late seventies, when Trump was a young real-estate developer, and published a book about him, "Trump: The Deals and the Downfalls," in 1991. The book investigated Trump's career to that point, including his company's record of racial bias in choosing tenants for its buildings.

During the campaign, more than sixty journalists made the trip to Barrett's house, in the Windsor Terrace neighborhood of Brooklyn, to talk to him about the candidate. (Jane Mayer spoke to him for her profile of Tony Schwartz, Trump's ghostwriter for "The Art of the Deal.") The lucky ones got a chance to go down to the basement and dig into his cartons of Trump documents. In the final months of the campaign, as Rudy Giuliani became Trump's most visible surrogate, reporters were calling Barrett with Giuliani questions, too, because he'd written two books on him as well. The morning after the election, journalists were still calling: a radio host interviewed him on air, a Washington Post reporter wanted to talk. But their sense of urgency had faded. In seventy-three days, Trump would be sworn in as the next President of the United States.

I've known Barrett for many years—we were colleagues at the Voice—and I still remember the days when he would lean over his desk, hollering into the phone at bureaucrats who refused to hand over public documents. When I visited him on Wednesday, he never left his bed. He was still fiery, but sombre. "Donald just has no interest in information. He has no genuine interest in policy. He operates by impulse. And I don't see any of that changing," he said. "Why would you change it? You got to be President of the United States. This personality has prospered in two universes now—business and politics—without discipline. Why would you acquire it at seventy?"

He had heard the talk that Giuliani would become the next Attorney General, but he was not convinced that the former mayor, who served as Associate Attorney General in the Reagan Administration, would want the job. "He's been No. 3 in the Justice Department—he's been at that level already. It could fuel the desire to be No. 1, but it's just as likely that he'll want to be chief of staff in the White House and extend himself a bit," he said. Barrett could also imagine a scenario in which Giuliani remained at Greenberg Traurig, the law firm where he now works. "With a Trump White House, Greenberg could become the No. 1 lobbying firm in the United States, and Rudy could make tens of millions of dollars," he said.

These days, Barrett is still doing his own reporting, even though he is largely confined to his bed. When I visited him, he had a telephone, a laptop, a copy of the Times, and two remote controls beside him. He has interstitial lung disease, and he used to go to rehabilitation twice a week, but he collapsed at rehab in February and hasn't been back. "By then I was so deep in Trumpland, I kept putting it off," he said. "And, of course, the longer you put it off, the worst you get." At the start of the campaign, he could walk from his bedroom to the front door several times each day. Now crossing the first floor leaves him breathless. That morning, his wife had made lunch for him before she went to work, leaving it on his bed in a backpack.

Hillary Clinton appeared on television to give her concession speech. He reached for a remote to turn up the volume; the sound of applause filled the bedroom. "This is her farewell," he said. "She'll speak on women's issues every once in a while, but she's going to just disappear into the sunset." He listened closely. "Donald Trump is going to be our President. We owe him an open mind and a chance to lead," Clinton said. Barrett's lips pressed into a frown. "Never stop believing that fighting for what is right is worth it," she added.

As Clinton finished her speech, he turned down the sound. "I don't know what she means by 'open mind,' " he said. "I don't know how you can look at the guy with an open mind and ignore everything he's said and done up until now. You don't look at him with an open mind; you look at him with all the information you can assemble, and you try to get him to not do the terrible things he promised."

Barrett's own strategy was to keep reporting. In the week before the election, he published two stories on the Daily Beast. The most recent one revealed that a pro-Trump super PAC, backed by the billionaire Robert Mercer and his daughter Rebekah, had been making payments to Giuliani's law firm. Barrett had been working on two other stories, too, but had been too sick to finish them by Tuesday. One was an investigation into Trump's eldest daughter and her husband—"I did a tremendous amount of work on Ivanka and Jared," he said—and he was hopeful that he would be able to publish it soon. For the weeks ahead, his plan was to keep on working, to keep scribbling notes on a reporter's pad while making phone calls from his bed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on November 11, 2016, 04:11:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

For some reason this conjured up a mental picture of Zed and the other guy in the shop in Pulp Fiction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 11, 2016, 04:23:21 PM
there are less than 30 high schools in the US at 50k pa. Majority of those are boarding.

They may be namby pamby but they will make up the 1 per cent very soon with about 80% of them likley to hold advanced degress (90%  if Whitey lives in New Hampshire Vermont or Delaware). And there in lies the rub.

The future is changing, Bernie's equality story resonated with the very rich and the very poor.

What is going to be interesting is whether anyone can come to the people of the US with a plan for equality of access to opportunity. The GI bill and the new deal allowed the middle class of america to shine, and created the actuality (not promise) of a fair days pay for a fair days work.

The infrastructure play is one of those opportunities. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2016, 04:31:07 PM
Just double checked their website-$49,400 tuition, room and board  (it is a boarding school)

These are the children of the people who now fund and run the Democratic Party

Hard to the think that (at least this cycle) the Republicans have become the party of working people

I view the Democrats as similar to the Labour Party where the elites has lost their ouch with their base
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 11, 2016, 04:44:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 11, 2016, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 01:11:27 PM
Did you need a dog to pet after President Trump got elected? Maybe a cup of coffee or some counselling after such an unfair Democratic election?

Send me your address and I will send you a participation trophy petal.

Very few Americans are happy right now, Trump needs to surround himself with centralists from both parties, people who can come together and get things done, he needs experienced, organized people and be needs to clean house at the dept of justice and FBI.

I literally have no idea what you are talking about... as you have noted previously it must be due to my unedudication!!

I deleted this part of the post, it was aimed at the wrong man, I apologies for that, as for uneducation, you do sarcasm at all? )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 11, 2016, 04:53:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 04:31:07 PM
Just double checked their website-$49,400 tuition, room and board  (it is a boarding school)

These are the children of the people who now fund and run the Democratic Party

Hard to the think that (at least this cycle) the Republicans have become the party of working people

I view the Democrats as similar to the Labour Party where the elites has lost their ouch with their base

I find myself agreeing here... Hillary and the Democrats = Blair and New Labour.  And we saw how New Labour ended up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2016, 05:09:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong????

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.

It went wrong because a flawed, status quo candidate was beaten, in the electoral college, by a demagogue playing to the basest instincts and manipulating the fears of a lot of scared, frustrated and misguided people.

It's happened many times before in history. Why would the US be immune?

Trump lost the popular vote. More people wanted Hillary. He would be well advised to heed that. He won't, though.

J70
You might say that Trump played to basest instincts but do you not think that the policies of Obama and Hillary are also to blame for the result? The pandering to minorities (including siding with BLM over the police) and blatant policies like affirmative action would make anyone scared for their own futures. If you ever lost a job due to affirmative action you'd understand this.

A case in point is the Grads of life 'initiative' put forward by Hillary during her campaign. Don't have an education ? Don't bother. Just turn up and tell an employer you have life experience and you'll get a job. It's like a silent affirmitive action plan.

What sort of message does that send across to middle america who break their back earn money to send kids to school, see them spent years studying and then and watch them being looked over again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx55C2zc8OE


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 11, 2016, 06:09:04 PM
i think the Dem party threw it away. Hilary and Sanders were poling similar figures until the Super Delegates got involved. Hilary was the safe bet and she deserved to picked.  Sanders may have lost anyway (being a socialist)  but he connect with people better than Hilary.

Hope that Trump achieves all he's promised but he  will have to contend with the establishment all over again (senate and congress) and I don't imagine he'll be able to bully them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2016, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 11, 2016, 06:09:04 PM
i think the Dem party threw it away. Hilary and Sanders were poling similar figures until the Super Delegates got involved. Hilary was the safe bet and she deserved to picked.  Sanders may have lost anyway (being a socialist)  but he connect with people better than Hilary.

Hope that Trump achieves all he's promised but he  will have to contend with the establishment all over again (senate and congress) and I don't imagine he'll be able to bully them.
Trump resorted to misogyny, antisemitism , racism and hatred to get the vote in. Plus all the lies. The GOP didn't play fair
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:51:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2016, 05:09:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong????

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.

It went wrong because a flawed, status quo candidate was beaten, in the electoral college, by a demagogue playing to the basest instincts and manipulating the fears of a lot of scared, frustrated and misguided people.

It's happened many times before in history. Why would the US be immune?

Trump lost the popular vote. More people wanted Hillary. He would be well advised to heed that. He won't, though.

J70
You might say that Trump played to basest instincts but do you not think that the policies of Obama and Hillary are also to blame for the result? The pandering to minorities (including siding with BLM over the police) and blatant policies like affirmative action would make anyone scared for their own futures. If you ever lost a job due to affirmative action you'd understand this.

I have lost a job to affirmative action. So what? Am I supposed to be bitter and twisted towards minorities now because of that?

Many black people lose or don't even get an opportunity due to prejudice.

And affirmative action is hardly a major factor in the plight of poor white people anyway.


Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2016, 05:09:35 PM
A case in point is the Grads of life 'initiative' put forward by Hillary during her campaign. Don't have an education ? Don't bother. Just turn up and tell an employer you have life experience and you'll get a job. It's like a silent affirmitive action plan.

What sort of message does that send across to middle america who break their back earn money to send kids to school, see them spent years studying and then and watch them being looked over again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx55C2zc8OE

Its voluntary FFS. A movement to get poor kids opportunities in big companies.

Its not like companies are being forced, with guns to their heads, to hire some poor black kid who hasn't finished high school to be an executive VP.

Anyone who is offended or alarmed by something like this has serious issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 11, 2016, 09:54:15 PM
Sheriff David Clarke being lined up to serve in some capacity in new administration now we're talking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 11, 2016, 09:59:52 PM
Trumpland stories
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/trump-fans-film-themselves-driving-through-womens-college-and-harassing-black-students/ (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/trump-fans-film-themselves-driving-through-womens-college-and-harassing-black-students/)
http://usuncut.com/news/trump-supporters-brutally-attack-gay-man-california/ (http://usuncut.com/news/trump-supporters-brutally-attack-gay-man-california/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 10:01:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 11, 2016, 09:54:15 PM
Sheriff David Clarke being lined up to serve in some capacity in new administration now we're talking

He can take his place alongside talent such as Sarah Palin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.

They weren't happy 4 years ago, but they weren't curled in in the foetal position or crying into
their skinny one pump chai lattes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2016, 10:27:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.

They weren't happy 4 years ago, but they weren't curled in in the foetal position or crying into
their skinny one pump chai lattes

Right, because only rich limousine liberals buy expensive coffee! ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2016, 10:51:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:51:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2016, 05:09:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong????

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.

It went wrong because a flawed, status quo candidate was beaten, in the electoral college, by a demagogue playing to the basest instincts and manipulating the fears of a lot of scared, frustrated and misguided people.

It's happened many times before in history. Why would the US be immune?

Trump lost the popular vote. More people wanted Hillary. He would be well advised to heed that. He won't, though.

J70
You might say that Trump played to basest instincts but do you not think that the policies of Obama and Hillary are also to blame for the result? The pandering to minorities (including siding with BLM over the police) and blatant policies like affirmative action would make anyone scared for their own futures. If you ever lost a job due to affirmative action you'd understand this.

I have lost a job to affirmative action. So what? Am I supposed to be bitter and twisted towards minorities now because of that?

Many black people lose or don't even get an opportunity due to prejudice.

And affirmative action is hardly a major factor in the plight of poor white people anyway.


Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2016, 05:09:35 PM
A case in point is the Grads of life 'initiative' put forward by Hillary during her campaign. Don't have an education ? Don't bother. Just turn up and tell an employer you have life experience and you'll get a job. It's like a silent affirmitive action plan.

What sort of message does that send across to middle america who break their back earn money to send kids to school, see them spent years studying and then and watch them being looked over again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx55C2zc8OE

Its voluntary FFS. A movement to get poor kids opportunities in big companies.

Its not like companies are being forced, with guns to their heads, to hire some poor black kid who hasn't finished high school to be an executive VP.

Anyone who is offended or alarmed by something like this has serious issues.

If you're happy losing a job and your livelihood so that a quota can be filled then you have serious issues. At least you can smile while you're on skid row. Or maybe you can feed your family with smug.

As for the grads of life program it's a stealth action program - companies will be shamed into adopting it like everything else PC - i'm sure that's what Obama/Hillary were angling at. Should be no shortcuts.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2016, 12:21:22 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2016, 10:51:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:51:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2016, 05:09:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong????

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.

It went wrong because a flawed, status quo candidate was beaten, in the electoral college, by a demagogue playing to the basest instincts and manipulating the fears of a lot of scared, frustrated and misguided people.

It's happened many times before in history. Why would the US be immune?

Trump lost the popular vote. More people wanted Hillary. He would be well advised to heed that. He won't, though.

J70
You might say that Trump played to basest instincts but do you not think that the policies of Obama and Hillary are also to blame for the result? The pandering to minorities (including siding with BLM over the police) and blatant policies like affirmative action would make anyone scared for their own futures. If you ever lost a job due to affirmative action you'd understand this.

I have lost a job to affirmative action. So what? Am I supposed to be bitter and twisted towards minorities now because of that?

Many black people lose or don't even get an opportunity due to prejudice.

And affirmative action is hardly a major factor in the plight of poor white people anyway.


Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2016, 05:09:35 PM
A case in point is the Grads of life 'initiative' put forward by Hillary during her campaign. Don't have an education ? Don't bother. Just turn up and tell an employer you have life experience and you'll get a job. It's like a silent affirmitive action plan.

What sort of message does that send across to middle america who break their back earn money to send kids to school, see them spent years studying and then and watch them being looked over again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx55C2zc8OE

Its voluntary FFS. A movement to get poor kids opportunities in big companies.

Its not like companies are being forced, with guns to their heads, to hire some poor black kid who hasn't finished high school to be an executive VP.

Anyone who is offended or alarmed by something like this has serious issues.

If you're happy losing a job and your livelihood so that a quota can be filled then you have serious issues. At least you can smile while you're on skid row. Or maybe you can feed your family with smug.

As for the grads of life program it's a stealth action program - companies will be shamed into adopting it like everything else PC - i'm sure that's what Obama/Hillary were angling at. Should be no shortcuts.

Or how about you roll your sleeves up and try again? Which I did at the time, and I've a very good career.

If there was no history of racism and blacks being frozen out of jobs, it wouldn't have been necessary to introduce affirmative action. Same as with catholics in the PSNI.

If there is an argument to be made that its time to now phase it out, fair enough.

Your objection to the Grads for Life thing is just hysterical, faux outrage bullshit. How the f**k will a company be shamed into hiring someone clearly unsuitable?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 12, 2016, 12:51:46 AM
Washington Post opinion piece yesterday calling for liberal-bastion-universities to adopt a quota system for hiring conservatives.   No trace of irony.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 12:57:57 AM

1968 was the last year the US was really chaotic

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/11/11/over-200-incidents-hateful-harassment-and-intimidation-election-day
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on November 12, 2016, 01:43:30 AM
I've been in China all week and for some reason they block this discussion board!

Trump won and he deserves a shot at it for the next 4 years. He will compromise/tone-down on a lot of the stuff he talked about during the election. I hear a lot of people talking about him losing the popular vote but that makes no difference, he played the election the way the election is set out to be won. Popular vote means nothing really as the republicans have the house and the Senate.

Hillary lost because she represented Washington and all that the middle class hate about the corrupt system that is in place. Playing to special interest groups and lobbyist came back-up to bite her as it is the core of the corrupt government that is in place. Trump came in with a different approach and it hit a chord with a large amount of voters in the swing states. Clinton also came across to many as untrustworthy and gave an air of entitlement to the position. To middle America all of this needed to change and hence the outcome is as can be seen now.

The next 4 years will be interesting for sure!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 09:31:34 AM
At times like this the radio songs come to life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 12, 2016, 11:25:50 AM
As predicted, Trump has done a back flip on his major campaign promise to "immediately repeal and replace Obamacare" towards a tinkering with it,
and this is just his first major interview a few days after being elected, 2 months before taking up office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2016, 11:25:50 AM
As predicted, Trump has done a back flip on his major campaign promise to "immediately repeal and replace Obamacare" towards a tinkering with it,
and this is just his first major interview a few days after being elected, 2 months before taking up office.
That is how Plámás works.
He will.throw a few bones to voters but power does what it wants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2016, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2016, 11:25:50 AM
As predicted, Trump has done a back flip on his major campaign promise to "immediately repeal and replace Obamacare" towards a tinkering with it,
and this is just his first major interview a few days after being elected, 2 months before taking up office.

He has no choice. There are serious problems with the health insurance system, but people like a lot of what Obamacare brought in, while they can't just strip 20 million people of health insurance.

What the insanity Freedom Caucus and their allies in the House make of it is another issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 03:25:27 PM
It doesn't look good with people like Pamêla Geller and John Bolton prominent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 12, 2016, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 03:25:27 PM
It doesn't look good with people like Pamela Geller and John Bolton prominent

The cabinet picks will go a long way to telling you how Trump will govern and so far it's looking very scary.
The one thing that you can guarantee is a big tax cut for all and that is not going to really help those unemployed or underpaid folks who voted for Trump. You will get more "trickle down"economic policies that have been a proven failure for the last 30 years.
Jobs are created by demand. Demand is created by putting more spending power in the hands of poor people who actually spend their income on goods and services in the US. The Republican Party will not vote for big infrastructure spending and increases in the minimum wage. Stuff that will jack up the spending power of the working class. Ergo the most of the tax savings will go to the wealthy and disappear off shore or at best into savings accounts here. Therefore Less spending on things in the US, leading to decreased demand .. recession and more grief for the working class of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan. and Wisconsin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on November 12, 2016, 09:52:53 PM
Sounds like a fair analysis, omochain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.

They weren't happy 4 years ago, but they weren't curled in in the foetal position or crying into
their skinny one pump chai lattes
Rove was. Romney wrote a paper on how the GOP needed to reconnect with voters after 2012. He never thought about emulating George Wallace, pussy baiting or using antisemitism to get in extremists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 11:31:47 PM
Nazi 2.0


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/science/myron-ebell-trump-epa.html

Trump's Climate Contrarian: Myron Ebell Takes On the E.P.A.
By HENRY FOUNTAINNOV. 11, 2016

Myron Ebell

The mug-shot posters, pasted on walls and lampposts around Paris by an activist group during the United Nations climate talks last year, were hardly flattering. They depicted Myron Ebell, a climate contrarian, as one of seven "climate criminals" wanted for "destroying our future."
But in his customary mild-mannered way, Mr. Ebell, who directs environmental and energy policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a libertarian advocacy group in Washington, brushed it off.
"I've gotten used to this over the years," he told an interviewer at the talks. "But I did go out and get my photo taken with my poster, just so I have it as a memento."
In looking for someone to follow through on his campaign vow to dismantle one of the Obama administration's signature climate change policies, President-elect Donald J. Trump probably could not have found a better candidate for the job than Mr. Ebell.
Mr. Ebell, who revels in taking on the scientific consensus on global warming, will be Mr. Trump's lead agent in choosing personnel and setting the direction of the federal agencies that address climate change and environmental policy more broadly.
Mr. Ebell, whose organization is financed in part by the coal industry, has been one of the most vocal opponents of the linchpin of that policy, the Clean Power Plan. Developed by the Environmental Protection Agency, the plan is a far-reaching set of regulations that, by seeking to reduce carbon emissions from electricity generation, could result in the closing of many coal-burning power plants, among other effects.
Mr. Ebell has said that the plan, which has been tied up in the courts since it was finalized in 2015, is illegal. In the interview in Paris last year, he said he hoped whoever was elected president would "undo the E.P.A. power plant regs and some of the other regs that are very harmful to our economy."
Short Answers to Hard Questions About Climate Change
The issue can be overwhelming. The science is complicated. We get it. This is your cheat sheet.


As the person Mr. Trump has chosen to lead the transition at the E.P.A., Mr. Ebell, 63, will be in a position to begin to do just that.
Mr. Ebell, who did not respond to a request for an interview, grew up on a ranch in Oregon. He got his undergraduate degree at Colorado College and master's at the London School of Economics, where he studied under the conservative political philosopher Michael Oakeshott. He has described himself as "sort of a contrarian by nature and upbringing," and has said he was very strongly influenced by the "question authority" ethos of 1960s and '70s counterculture
"I really think that people should be suspicious of authority," he told an interviewer last year. "The more you're told that you have to believe something, the more you should question it."
Mr. Ebell leads the Cooler Heads Coalition, a loose-knit group that says it is "focused on dispelling the myths of global warming by exposing flawed economic, scientific, and risk analysis." He has been one of the nation's most visible climate contrarians, known for dispensing memorable sound bites on cable news shows and at events like the annual conferences sponsored by the Heartland Institute, a Chicago-based group that rejects the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change.
More Reporting on Climate Change


Flooding of Coast, Caused by Global Warming, Has Already BegunSep. 04, 2016


Another Inconvenient Truth: It's Hard to Agree How to Fight Climate ChangeJuly 12, 2016


Climate Change Claims a Lake, and an IdentityJuly 07, 2016


A Remote Pacific Nation, Threatened by Rising SeasJuly 03, 2016


Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms ScientistsApril 10, 2016


How Much Warmer Was Your City in 2015?Feb. 19, 2016

Mr. Ebell has said that "a lot of third-, fourth- and fifth-rate scientists have gotten a long ways" by embracing climate change. He frequently mocks climate leaders like Al Gore, and has called the movement the "forces of darkness" because "they want to turn off the lights all over the world."
No one, it seems, is immune to his criticism. He called Pope Francis's encyclical on climate change, issued in mid-2015, "scientifically ill informed, economically illiterate, intellectually incoherent and morally obtuse."
"It is also theologically suspect, and large parts of it are leftist drivel," he added.
Mr. Ebell cut his teeth in Washington working for Frontiers of Freedom, a research group founded by former Senator Malcolm Wallop, a Wyoming Republican, to advocate for limited government. He also worked for a Republican congressman from Arizona, John Shadegg, on an effort to revamp the Endangered Species Act to make it more respectful of property rights.
In interviews and speeches, Mr. Ebell comes off as amiable and calm. But he is hardly shy about lobbing verbal grenades, sometimes directly at scientists and environmentalists.
Sign Up for the Science Times Newsletter
Every week, we'll bring you stories that capture the wonders of the human body, nature and the cosmos.


Sign Up

Receive occasional updates and special offers for The New York Times's products and services.


See Sample Privacy Policy
He clashed with Kevin E. Trenberth, a senior researcher at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, in an appearance on Fox News in 2009 after the unauthorized release of emails from a server at an English university set off a battle over the integrity of leading climate scientists.
Mr. Ebell called Dr. Trenberth "part of a gang" that had been "cooking the data" on climate for years, accusations that Dr. Trenberth strenuously denied.
During an August 2015 appearance on C-Span with Jeremy Symons of the Environmental Defense Fund, Mr. Ebell did not deny Mr. Symons' assertion that the Competitive Enterprise Institute receives money from the Murray Energy Corporation, one of the nation's largest coal producers. He countered that his group's total budget, of about $6 million, was far smaller than that of Mr. Symons' group.
Advertisement
Continue reading the main story

"I would like to have more funding," Mr. Ebell said, "so that I could combat the nonsense put out by the environmental movement."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 12:54:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.

They weren't happy 4 years ago, but they weren't curled in in the foetal position or crying into
their skinny one pump chai lattes
Rove was. Romney wrote a paper on how the GOP needed to reconnect with voters after 2012. He never thought about emulating George Wallace, pussy baiting or using antisemitism to get in extremists.
Nobody does sneering, crying, moaning, taking offence, invoking free speech and then trying to shut it down, or general throwing toys out of the pram quite like conservatives.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 13, 2016, 01:41:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 12:54:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.

They weren't happy 4 years ago, but they weren't curled in in the foetal position or crying into
their skinny one pump chai lattes
Rove was. Romney wrote a paper on how the GOP needed to reconnect with voters after 2012. He never thought about emulating George Wallace, pussy baiting or using antisemitism to get in extremists.
Nobody does sneering, crying, moaning, taking offence, invoking free speech and then trying to shut it down, or general throwing toys out of the pram quite like conservatives.

Except those liberal lowlife scumbags in Portland that hate the constitution, the country they were born and live in.

You liberals are masters of hypocrisy, I have to hand it to you.

Sanctuary cities gone, Megyns Law is a coming and when Trump gets in the liberal knackers that are rioting will be charged with hate crimes the c***ts!

So the rioters are not throwing the toys out of the pram? Catch yourself on FFS!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 13, 2016, 01:41:57 AM
Trump and Farage had a "tea party" today
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 01:49:44 AM
Quote from: omochain on November 13, 2016, 01:41:57 AM
Trump and Farage had a "tea party" today
Only white tea was served, no black.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 13, 2016, 01:52:06 AM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2016, 01:41:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 12:54:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.

They weren't happy 4 years ago, but they weren't curled in in the foetal position or crying into
their skinny one pump chai lattes
Rove was. Romney wrote a paper on how the GOP needed to reconnect with voters after 2012. He never thought about emulating George Wallace, pussy baiting or using antisemitism to get in extremists.
Nobody does sneering, crying, moaning, taking offence, invoking free speech and then trying to shut it down, or general throwing toys out of the pram quite like conservatives.

Except those liberal lowlife scumbags in Portland that hate the constitution, the country they were born and live in.

You liberals are masters of hypocrisy, I have to hand it to you.

Sanctuary cities gone, Megyns Law is a coming and when Trump gets in the liberal knackers that are rioting will be charged with hate crimes the c***ts!

So the rioters are not throwing the toys out of the pram? Catch yourself on FFS!

Can you please enlighten me how protesting against a voice that espoused misogyny, racism and wants to muzzle a free press translates into hating the constitution and the country they were born in to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 01:55:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2016, 01:41:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 12:54:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.

They weren't happy 4 years ago, but they weren't curled in in the foetal position or crying into
their skinny one pump chai lattes
Rove was. Romney wrote a paper on how the GOP needed to reconnect with voters after 2012. He never thought about emulating George Wallace, pussy baiting or using antisemitism to get in extremists.
Nobody does sneering, crying, moaning, taking offence, invoking free speech and then trying to shut it down, or general throwing toys out of the pram quite like conservatives.

Except those liberal lowlife scumbags in Portland that hate the constitution, the country they were born and live in.

You liberals are masters of hypocrisy, I have to hand it to you.

Sanctuary cities gone, Megyns Law is a coming and when Trump gets in the liberal knackers that are rioting will be charged with hate crimes the c***ts!

So the rioters are not throwing the toys out of the pram? Catch yourself on FFS!
"Liberal lowlife scumbags"
"Liberal knackers"  ;D

Ah, you're nothing if not predictable, mate.

Thank heavens we have the civilised Republicans to set the example for good people how to behave, such as, you know, daubing swastikas across walls and shopfronts, and setting up "n****r lynching" pages on Facebook.

But sure it's only online banter.

And hey, free speech and all that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 02:09:48 AM
GOP voters should put on their f**k me boots.

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/11/facebook-twitter-trump-how-internet-changed-election/

much has been made of the migration of "news" to the web—news conveyed via social media, Facebook and Twitter especially, but also through partisan websites that, while devoting little or no resources to fact-based reporting, have followed the Fox News playbook of taking on the appearance of traditional news-gathering operations. While it is true that this can be confusing to some readers, who are led to believe that the sites they rely on for information are honest and objective when, instead, they are designed to throw poisonous content into the news cycle, the actual effect is even more insidious: it has created an equivalence between those ideological sites and traditional journalism


After studying four million election-related tweets created between September 16 and October 21, the University of Southern California computer science professor, Emilio Ferrara, and his colleagues, determined that one in five were generated by bots. And once they were, they were retweeted again and again by actual humans, who sent them ricocheting around the web, especially those that were antagonistic; in earlier work, Ferrara's group found that negative tweets traveled 2.5 times faster than positive ones.  "As a result, [the bots] were able to build significant influence, collecting large numbers of followers and having their tweets retweeted by thousands of humans," and leading to the "spreading of content that is often defamatory or based on unsupported or even false, claims." Ferrara further noted that, "previous studies showed that this systematic bias alters public perception. Specifically, it creates the false impression that there is grassroots, positive, sustained support for a certain candidate."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 13, 2016, 03:00:10 AM
Stew not trying to morally blackmail you here.  But you said one of the most simplest, heartfelt quotes on here during the Syrian refugee crisis, that I felt left it impossible for anyone else to argue or debate with.  Something along the lines of "why not just take take them out of the water, cloth them and give them shelter" apologies if I have misquoted!   So that being, said what policies does a conservative like yourself, who opposes "Obamacare" think the USA should adopt to guarantee/or help with health care for the poor and underprivileged?  Again apologies as I know little of the health care system in the states, but it is my understanding that if you are poor you are f**ked?  What would be the republican/conservative strategy /policy to help people from a lower socio-economic background get the same level of health care?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:52:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 12:54:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.

They weren't happy 4 years ago, but they weren't curled in in the foetal position or crying into
their skinny one pump chai lattes
Rove was. Romney wrote a paper on how the GOP needed to reconnect with voters after 2012. He never thought about emulating George Wallace, pussy baiting or using antisemitism to get in extremists.
Nobody does sneering, crying, moaning, taking offence, invoking free speech and then trying to shut it down, or general throwing toys out of the pram quite like conservatives.
Nobody does shafting their own voters like the GOP
but the evangelicals know it is part of Gods plan

Trump promised to take on global special interests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBMFVzwfJ-s


this week he announced he would be  relaxing Financial regulation
for people who don't have your good in mind.

BOHICA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 09:13:58 AM
It is exactly the same as Brexit. Plámás to get elected. Take on special interests/ 350m for the NHS. And then betrayal.

Boomers don't care about the climate. They won't be around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:21:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/13/trump-looking-at-quickest-way-to-quit-paris-climate-agreement-says-report
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 02:06:51 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2016, 01:41:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 12:54:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2016, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
I stopped into my local coffee shop this morning on my way home from the gym

Had a nice chat with the owner about the election (he's a conservative like me)

Seeming quite a few  of the teenagers from the local prep school (14-18 yr olds) were crying their eyes out and consoling each other on Wednesday morning. 

Their parents pay $50k a year to send them there and this is what theyre turning out....fvckin nanny pambies......I'd be looking point for a refund if I was them.

God bless them the poor crathurs, their feelings have been hurt.  There's want a good week in a he bog to harden them up....and a good kick up the hole too

Were you so dismissive of right wingers who were similarly upset and forecasting the end of America four and eight years ago?

People get upset about sports FFS. Presidential politics is something that actually matters and affects real lives.

They weren't happy 4 years ago, but they weren't curled in in the foetal position or crying into
their skinny one pump chai lattes
Rove was. Romney wrote a paper on how the GOP needed to reconnect with voters after 2012. He never thought about emulating George Wallace, pussy baiting or using antisemitism to get in extremists.
Nobody does sneering, crying, moaning, taking offence, invoking free speech and then trying to shut it down, or general throwing toys out of the pram quite like conservatives.

Except those liberal lowlife scumbags in Portland that hate the constitution, the country they were born and live in.

You liberals are masters of hypocrisy, I have to hand it to you.

Sanctuary cities gone, Megyns Law is a coming and when Trump gets in the liberal knackers that are rioting will be charged with hate crimes the c***ts!

So the rioters are not throwing the toys out of the pram? Catch yourself on FFS!

Hate crimes? On what grounds?

Would you be on here frothing at the mouth if Hillary had won and the widespread unrest threatened by the right had come to pass?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 02:09:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 03:25:27 PM
It doesn't look good with people like Pamêla Geller and John Bolton prominent

Pamela Geller?

Are you f**king serious?? :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 02:15:02 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 12, 2016, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2016, 03:25:27 PM
It doesn't look good with people like Pamela Geller and John Bolton prominent

The cabinet picks will go a long way to telling you how Trump will govern and so far it's looking very scary.
The one thing that you can guarantee is a big tax cut for all and that is not going to really help those unemployed or underpaid folks who voted for Trump. You will get more "trickle down"economic policies that have been a proven failure for the last 30 years.
Jobs are created by demand. Demand is created by putting more spending power in the hands of poor people who actually spend their income on goods and services in the US. The Republican Party will not vote for big infrastructure spending and increases in the minimum wage. Stuff that will jack up the spending power of the working class. Ergo the most of the tax savings will go to the wealthy and disappear off shore or at best into savings accounts here. Therefore Less spending on things in the US, leading to decreased demand .. recession and more grief for the working class of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan. and Wisconsin.

Yes, Kansas is undergoing a very telling, trickle-down/supply-side economics experiment right now. Alarmingly, Brownback has been one of the names touted for the administration.

The GOP does not seem to get the simple premise that poorer people spend a far higher proportion, if not all, of their income on a weekly basis. Tax relief aimed at them is guaranteed to put more money into the economy.

I think it would be fantastic if Trump was able to kickstart the infrastructure spending that the GOP blocked Obama from doing for years. It will be interesting to see if hypocrisy reigns now that their own guy is at the controls, or if they really don't give a shit about crumbling roads, bridges and railway systems or understand its importance to the economy.

On a related note, I was reading that the proposed Gateway project build a new railway tunnel between NJ and Manhattan is going to cost four times as much as the ARC project which Christie torpedoed a few years back, supposedly due to the cost to the tax payer. Christie supports the Gateway project...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:20:25 PM
http://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Great explanation as to why Hillary lost.....Brexit Mark II
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 02:09:48 AM
GOP voters should put on their f**k me boots.

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/11/facebook-twitter-trump-how-internet-changed-election/

much has been made of the migration of "news" to the web—news conveyed via social media, Facebook and Twitter especially, but also through partisan websites that, while devoting little or no resources to fact-based reporting, have followed the Fox News playbook of taking on the appearance of traditional news-gathering operations. While it is true that this can be confusing to some readers, who are led to believe that the sites they rely on for information are honest and objective when, instead, they are designed to throw poisonous content into the news cycle, the actual effect is even more insidious: it has created an equivalence between those ideological sites and traditional journalism


After studying four million election-related tweets created between September 16 and October 21, the University of Southern California computer science professor, Emilio Ferrara, and his colleagues, determined that one in five were generated by bots. And once they were, they were retweeted again and again by actual humans, who sent them ricocheting around the web, especially those that were antagonistic; in earlier work, Ferrara's group found that negative tweets traveled 2.5 times faster than positive ones.  "As a result, [the bots] were able to build significant influence, collecting large numbers of followers and having their tweets retweeted by thousands of humans," and leading to the "spreading of content that is often defamatory or based on unsupported or even false, claims." Ferrara further noted that, "previous studies showed that this systematic bias alters public perception. Specifically, it creates the false impression that there is grassroots, positive, sustained support for a certain candidate."

So should we rely on CNN to educate us as to what's going on?

Their attempt to influence the election was nothing short of a disgrace
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 02:34:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:20:25 PM
http://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Great explanation as to why Hillary lost.....Brexit Mark II

Great explanation to why Hillary lost, perhaps, in that it details their incoherence.

On the one hand, the Dems and elites talk down to them, the poor crayturs. How exactly are they being talked down to? What is it that these apparently delicate, sensitive people find so offensive?

On the other hand, they're dismissing some of Trump's most potent demagoguing, such as the deportation threats, as empty election promises. Yet they like him because he's telling it as it is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 02:09:48 AM
GOP voters should put on their f**k me boots.

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/11/facebook-twitter-trump-how-internet-changed-election/

much has been made of the migration of "news" to the web—news conveyed via social media, Facebook and Twitter especially, but also through partisan websites that, while devoting little or no resources to fact-based reporting, have followed the Fox News playbook of taking on the appearance of traditional news-gathering operations. While it is true that this can be confusing to some readers, who are led to believe that the sites they rely on for information are honest and objective when, instead, they are designed to throw poisonous content into the news cycle, the actual effect is even more insidious: it has created an equivalence between those ideological sites and traditional journalism


After studying four million election-related tweets created between September 16 and October 21, the University of Southern California computer science professor, Emilio Ferrara, and his colleagues, determined that one in five were generated by bots. And once they were, they were retweeted again and again by actual humans, who sent them ricocheting around the web, especially those that were antagonistic; in earlier work, Ferrara's group found that negative tweets traveled 2.5 times faster than positive ones.  "As a result, [the bots] were able to build significant influence, collecting large numbers of followers and having their tweets retweeted by thousands of humans," and leading to the "spreading of content that is often defamatory or based on unsupported or even false, claims." Ferrara further noted that, "previous studies showed that this systematic bias alters public perception. Specifically, it creates the false impression that there is grassroots, positive, sustained support for a certain candidate."

So should we rely on CNN to educate us as to what's going on?

Their attempt to influence the election was nothing short of a disgrace

You mean DNC chair Donna Brazile leaking one question? Or having Corey Lewandowski as a paid analyst while he was still on the Trump payroll?

Or is there something else CNN did?

Personally, I think all the news networks were complicit in giving Trump so much coverage, purely for ratings reasons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:45:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 02:34:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:20:25 PM
http://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Great explanation as to why Hillary lost.....Brexit Mark II

Great explanation to why Hillary lost, perhaps, in that it details their incoherence.

On the one hand, the Dems and elites talk down to them, the poor crayturs. How exactly are they being talked down to? What is it that these apparently delicate, sensitive people find so offensive?

On the other hand, they're dismissing some of Trump's most potent demagoguing, such as the deportation threats, as empty election promises. Yet they like him because he's telling it as it is?

Dems need everyone to agree with them 110% on 100% of the issues (IMHO)

If you don't you're either a rascist, a homophobe, an islamohobe or a transphobe (a new one for me)

Take their vote for granted at your peril and that's what the Dems did this time out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 02:53:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 02:34:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:20:25 PM
http://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Great explanation as to why Hillary lost.....Brexit Mark II

Great explanation to why Hillary lost, perhaps, in that it details their incoherence.

On the one hand, the Dems and elites talk down to them, the poor crayturs. How exactly are they being talked down to? What is it that these apparently delicate, sensitive people find so offensive?

On the other hand, they're dismissing some of Trump's most potent demagoguing, such as the deportation threats, as empty election promises. Yet they like him because he's telling it as it is?
Trump voters and Republicans in general are awful snowflakes, really.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:45:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 02:34:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:20:25 PM
http://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Great explanation as to why Hillary lost.....Brexit Mark II

Great explanation to why Hillary lost, perhaps, in that it details their incoherence.

On the one hand, the Dems and elites talk down to them, the poor crayturs. How exactly are they being talked down to? What is it that these apparently delicate, sensitive people find so offensive?

On the other hand, they're dismissing some of Trump's most potent demagoguing, such as the deportation threats, as empty election promises. Yet they like him because he's telling it as it is?

Dems need everyone to agree with them 110% on 100% of the issues (IMHO)

If you don't you're either a rascist, a homophobe, an islamohobe or a transphobe (a new one for me)

Take their vote for granted at your peril and that's what the Dems did this time out

Really?

Because the GOP is the party that has undergone a purge of all moderates over the past eight years.

You never hear of the equivalent of RINO or "cuckservative" on the Democratic side.

Even Eric Cantor was primaried out of power FFS! John Boehner quit because he got sick of the bullshit.

But you still haven't explained what the Dems have done or said that upset these poor Irish Riviera people so much or how their anger at the Dems is justified.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 03:04:29 PM
If you need to ask then you're living in a bubble
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 03:07:04 PM
The US is becoming ungovernable. Both parties are to blame for that.

A celebrity bulls***er hi-jacked the Republican nomination and then bluffed his way into power with nonsense straight from 1930s Germany. 

The protesters are wasting their time and everyone else's. Narcissists aren't for turning, even if their protests rip city centres apart.

The irony of voting to 'make America great again' being the straw that breaks America's back, will be one of those cruel ironies historians love.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 03:53:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 03:04:29 PM
If you need to ask then you're living in a bubble

Then assume I'm living in a bubble and explain it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 03:55:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 03:07:04 PM
The US is becoming ungovernable. Both parties are to blame for that.

A celebrity bulls***er hi-jacked the Republican nomination and then bluffed his way into power with nonsense straight from 1930s Germany. 

The protesters are wasting their time and everyone else's. Narcissists aren't for turning, even if their protests rip city centres apart.

The irony of voting to 'make America great again' being the straw that breaks America's back, will be one of those cruel ironies historians love.

Save the protests for when he actually does something objectionable. It won't be a long wait.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 04:18:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 03:07:04 PM
The US is becoming ungovernable. Both parties are to blame for that.

A celebrity bulls***er hi-jacked the Republican nomination and then bluffed his way into power with nonsense straight from 1930s Germany. 

The protesters are wasting their time and everyone else's. Narcissists aren't for turning, even if their protests rip city centres apart.

The irony of voting to 'make America great again' being the straw that breaks America's back, will be one of those cruel ironies historians love.
Payrises would restore America. All the hate is 1% related.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 04:23:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 02:09:48 AM
GOP voters should put on their f**k me boots.

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/11/facebook-twitter-trump-how-internet-changed-election/

much has been made of the migration of "news" to the web—news conveyed via social media, Facebook and Twitter especially, but also through partisan websites that, while devoting little or no resources to fact-based reporting, have followed the Fox News playbook of taking on the appearance of traditional news-gathering operations. While it is true that this can be confusing to some readers, who are led to believe that the sites they rely on for information are honest and objective when, instead, they are designed to throw poisonous content into the news cycle, the actual effect is even more insidious: it has created an equivalence between those ideological sites and traditional journalism


After studying four million election-related tweets created between September 16 and October 21, the University of Southern California computer science professor, Emilio Ferrara, and his colleagues, determined that one in five were generated by bots. And once they were, they were retweeted again and again by actual humans, who sent them ricocheting around the web, especially those that were antagonistic; in earlier work, Ferrara's group found that negative tweets traveled 2.5 times faster than positive ones.  "As a result, [the bots] were able to build significant influence, collecting large numbers of followers and having their tweets retweeted by thousands of humans," and leading to the "spreading of content that is often defamatory or based on unsupported or even false, claims." Ferrara further noted that, "previous studies showed that this systematic bias alters public perception. Specifically, it creates the false impression that there is grassroots, positive, sustained support for a certain candidate."

So should we rely on CNN to educate us as to what's going on?

Their attempt to influence the election was nothing short of a disgrace
2 echo chambers. Polarisation. What do you think of Trump''s bots? Is plutocracy conservative? Did you vote for financial deregulation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 04:36:53 PM
Purging the moderates will catch up with the GOP. Now is not the time for on message robots. Dick Roches do not work during meltdowns. The ideology is dead with the Phillips curve. The US is not a toy. There is no Scooby  Do. It needs leadership.  It got Kochsuckers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 04:42:10 PM
Thinking more about these protests, it is ironic that the US organised the street protests that contribured to the removal of the democratically elected (but pro-Russian) President in Ukraine.

It is even more ironic that Republicans such as John McCain were heavily involved.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 05:21:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 03:53:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 03:04:29 PM
If you need to ask then you're living in a bubble

Then assume I'm living in a bubble and explain it.

Question Obabacare (even though your premium has doubled and your coverage has been cut in half) and your a racist because that's Obamas legacy.

Question (or not completely agree with)same sex marriage your a homophobe

Not have your hair on fire in support of transgender bathrooms, you're a transphobe.

In light of the Boston Marathon Bombing or San Bernardino Shooting state they maybe we should do a more thorough job vetting people who we let into the country....you're an islamaphobe

(BTW Eire Pub is about 1/4 mile away from the home of the 8 year old boy blown to pieces in the Marathon Bombing)

Dems are all for diversity, except the most important type.....diversity of opinion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 05:21:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 03:53:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 03:04:29 PM
If you need to ask then you're living in a bubble

Then assume I'm living in a bubble and explain it.

Question Obabacare (even though your premium has doubled and your coverage has been cut in half) and your a racist because that's Obamas legacy.

Question (or not completely agree with)same sex marriage your a homophobe

Not have your hair on fire in support of transgender bathrooms, you're a transphobe.

In light of the Boston Marathon Bombing or San Bernardino Shooting state they maybe we should do a more thorough job vetting people who we let into the country....you're an islamaphobe

(BTW Eire Pub is about 1/4 mile away from the home of the 8 year old boy blown to pieces in the Marathon Bombing)

Dems are all for diversity, except the most important type.....diversity of opinion

They weren't normal immigrants, the family received political asylum. The bombers appear to have been radicalised while in the US.

Yer man in the San Bernardino attack was born in Illinois.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:08:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 05:21:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 03:53:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 03:04:29 PM
If you need to ask then you're living in a bubble

Then assume I'm living in a bubble and explain it.

Question Obabacare (even though your premium has doubled and your coverage has been cut in half) and your a racist because that's Obamas legacy.

Question (or not completely agree with)same sex marriage your a homophobe

Not have your hair on fire in support of transgender bathrooms, you're a transphobe.

In light of the Boston Marathon Bombing or San Bernardino Shooting state they maybe we should do a more thorough job vetting people who we let into the country....you're an islamaphobe

(BTW Eire Pub is about 1/4 mile away from the home of the 8 year old boy blown to pieces in the Marathon Bombing)

Dems are all for diversity, except the most important type.....diversity of opinion

They weren't normal immigrants, the family received political asylum. The bombers appear to have been radicalised while in the US.

Yer man in the San Bernardino attack was born in Illinois.

Family of Boston Marathon FRAUDENTLY claimed asylum....as soon as they were up on shoplifting charges they high tailed it right back to Chechnya. 


https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/us/san-bernardino-attacks-us-visa-process-tashfeen-maliks-remarks-on-social-media-about-jihad-were-missed.amp.html
Wife in San Bernardino shooting was the instigator.......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:08:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 05:21:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 03:53:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 03:04:29 PM
If you need to ask then you're living in a bubble

Then assume I'm living in a bubble and explain it.

Question Obabacare (even though your premium has doubled and your coverage has been cut in half) and your a racist because that's Obamas legacy.

Question (or not completely agree with)same sex marriage your a homophobe

Not have your hair on fire in support of transgender bathrooms, you're a transphobe.

In light of the Boston Marathon Bombing or San Bernardino Shooting state they maybe we should do a more thorough job vetting people who we let into the country....you're an islamaphobe

(BTW Eire Pub is about 1/4 mile away from the home of the 8 year old boy blown to pieces in the Marathon Bombing)

Dems are all for diversity, except the most important type.....diversity of opinion

They weren't normal immigrants, the family received political asylum. The bombers appear to have been radicalised while in the US.

Yer man in the San Bernardino attack was born in Illinois.

Family of Boston Marathon FRAUDENTLY claimed asylum....as soon as they were up on shoplifting charges they high tailed it right back to Chechnya. 


https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/us/san-bernardino-attacks-us-visa-process-tashfeen-maliks-remarks-on-social-media-about-jihad-were-missed.amp.html
Wife in San Bernardino shooting was the instigator.......

Neither of the Boston bombers was ever in Chechnya, not that that matters a jot. Neither were ever in Afghanistan or Iraq either, though they claimed the attack was revenge for the US being in both countries.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/04/the-brothers-masha-gessen-tsarnaev-brothers-book (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/04/the-brothers-masha-gessen-tsarnaev-brothers-book)

....Since 9/11 we have somehow come to accept the "radicalization" narrative, which basically holds that people become terrorists through a series of consecutive, traceable steps laid out for them by large international Islamic organizations. Reality is messier, and also smaller. First of all, radical beliefs are not a predictor of terrorist behavior: most people who hold radical beliefs never become terrorists, and some terrorists don't hold radical beliefs. Second, this theory ignores the benefits of becoming a terrorist: it's a shortcut to becoming a somebody, to belonging, perhaps even to becoming "great." Look at the people who carried out the terrorist attacks of this past winter in Sydney, Paris, and Copenhagen. What do they have in common with one another and with the Tsarnaev brothers? They come from marginalized immigrant existences. They see a chance not only to become a part of something and become somebody but also a chance to declare war on a great power. And the great power accepts that declaration, which is I think the shortsighted and tragic way in which the war on terror has contributed to the glamorization and aggrandizement of terror itself....

As for the San Bernardino female bomber, she was interviewed 3 times by immigration officials. What more are you advocating to be done?

The 911 bombers were reported to police, for their very odd behaviour, up to a year before 911. But nothing was done.

Easy soundbites about targeting muslims and mexicans are not a real solution. Better intelligence and people doing their jobs might be.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:28:22 PM
And therein lies the problem and why Donald Trump is now in the White House-lol

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 06:32:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 05:21:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 03:53:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 03:04:29 PM
If you need to ask then you're living in a bubble

Then assume I'm living in a bubble and explain it.

Question Obabacare (even though your premium has doubled and your coverage has been cut in half) and your a racist because that's Obamas legacy.

Come on, you're better than resorting to ridiculous, talk-radio, facebook-meme hyperbole.

Who ever stated that the opposing of Obamacare was tantamount to racism?

And more specifically, where in the Democratic platform or even rhetoric was it?

Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 05:21:13 PM
Question (or not completely agree with)same sex marriage your a homophobe

Yes, I'm sure this one has happened.

I've yet to hear a legitimate argument to support opposing same-sex marriage, however.

Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 05:21:13 PM
Not have your hair on fire in support of transgender bathrooms, you're a transphobe.

As with the Obamacare racism one, where and when?

Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 05:21:13 PM
In light of the Boston Marathon Bombing or San Bernardino Shooting state they maybe we should do a more thorough job vetting people who we let into the country....you're an islamaphobe

(BTW Eire Pub is about 1/4 mile away from the home of the 8 year old boy blown to pieces in the Marathon Bombing)

Again, where and when?

Until recently, Syrian refugees underwent an up to two year vetting process before entrance to the US - more resources are being thrown at it to try to speed the process up.

Have liberals and Democrats been objecting to that?

Or have they been objecting to Trumps rhetoric about banning muslims en masse?

Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 05:21:13 PM
Dems are all for diversity, except the most important type.....diversity of opinion

As if conservatives are any more tolerant. Besides, being for diversity and tolerance, and arguing and legislating against diversity and tolerance are not equivalent or merely differences of opinion. Intolerance of intolerance is not a bad thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Don't believe me if you don't want

Ill paraphrase that's guy they interviewed in the article. ..."people are sick and tired of being talked down to".


While I accept that may not be your individual experience, it has been the experience of many blue collar Democrats who may be somewhat socially conservative and they gave their response at the polls this past Tuesday and that's why Trump is in the White House
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:28:22 PM
And therein lies the problem and why Donald Trump is now in the White House-lol
They will shaft you, Whitey
Any administration that says climate is a hoax will shaft its voters

http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/walrus.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:40:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:28:22 PM
And therein lies the problem and why Donald Trump is now in the White House-lol
They will shaft you, Whitey
Any administration that says climate is a hoax will shaft its voters

http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/walrus.html

Oh....I'm not a Trump supporter....I voted for Bernie
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 06:41:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:28:22 PM
And therein lies the problem and why Donald Trump is now in the White House-lol

Exactly.

And why Brexit has happened and why Le Pen might win in France.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
You're still not listening, the same way they didn't listen

I gave you a quote from The NY Times (not Fox News) stating that warning sign were missed with the San Bernardino shooters wife and you still are blabbling on about "easy soundbites" targeting Muslims.

Democrats need to get their heads out of their arses big time.....they're primed to get demolished at the midterms if Trump does well (and I grudgingly admit he will do okay....call him
What you want, but he's not stupid)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Don't believe me if you don't want

Ill paraphrase that's guy they interviewed in the article. ..."people are sick and tired of being talked down to".


While I accept that may not be your individual experience, it has been the experience of many blue collar Democrats who may be somewhat socially conservative and they gave their response at the polls this past Tuesday and that's why Trump is in the White House

But I'm not talking about their perception.

I'm talking about reality and whether their perception is objectively legitimate.

To use an extreme example for illustration, is the average KKK member or Islamic jihadist owed some recognition and legitimization by the political system?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Don't believe me if you don't want

Ill paraphrase that's guy they interviewed in the article. ..."people are sick and tired of being talked down to".


While I accept that may not be your individual experience, it has been the experience of many blue collar Democrats who may be somewhat socially conservative and they gave their response at the polls this past Tuesday and that's why Trump is in the White House

But I'm not talking about their perception.

I'm talking about reality and whether their perception is objectively legitimate.

To use an extreme example for illustration, is the average KKK member or Islamic jihadist owed some recognition and legitimization by the political system?


Lolololol

But who's to decide "if their perception is objectively legitimate"?

You may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, The NY Times and CNN may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, the people from Georgetown and the Upper West Side may not view their perceptions as objectively legitimate, but THEY sure as $hit view them as objectively legitimate

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
You're still not listening, the same way they didn't listen

I gave you a quote from The NY Times (not Fox News) stating that warning sign were missed with the San Bernardino shooters wife and you still are blabbling on about "easy soundbites" targeting Muslims.

Democrats need to get their heads out of their arses big time.....they're primed to get demolished at the midterms if Trump does well (and I grudgingly admit he will do okay....call him
What you want, but he's not stupid)

You posted the quote and mentioned nothing about warning signs, just that she was the 'instigator'.

I read the article and it seems to blame the lack of a check of social media posts. Is that your solution? More checking of social media posts?

The 911 bombers were trained in the US: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/)

People with 'known links to Bin Laden', who was behind the WTC bombing in 1993, were allowed to do their flight training in the US. They were known to authorities but nothing was done.

You can vet all you like, but you need resources and the right people doing the vetting otherwise you get the above ridiculous situations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:21:35 PM
http://cogink.com/cleese/ (http://cogink.com/cleese/)

A LETTER TO THE US





FROM JOHN CLEESE



To the citizens of the United States of America, in light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II resumes monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy.

Your new prime minister (The Right Honourable Theresa May, MP for the 97.8% of you who have, until now, been unaware there's a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America. Congress and the Senate are disbanded. A questionnaire circulated next year will determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid your transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. Look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Check "aluminium" in the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you pronounce it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour'. Likewise you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary." Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed." There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you should not have chat shows.

2. There is no such thing as "US English." We'll let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u'.

3. You should learn to distinguish English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). Scottish dramas such as 'Taggart' will no longer be broadcast with subtitles.You must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon." If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g. Texasshire Floridashire, Louisianashire.

4. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1.

5. You should stop playing American "football." There's only one kind of football. What you call American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.1% of you aware there is a world outside your borders may have noticed no one else plays "American" football. You should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every two seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies) You should stop playing baseball. It's not reasonable to host event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America. Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders," which is baseball without fancy team stripe, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.

6. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns, or anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because you are not sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you need a permit to carry a vegetable peeler.

7. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 2nd will be a new national holiday. It will be called "Indecisive Day."

8. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left. At the same time, you will go metric without the benefit of conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.

9. Learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips. Fries aren't French, they're Belgian though 97.8% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Potato chips are properly called "crisps." Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat.

10. The cold tasteless stuff you call beer is actually lager. Only proper British Bitter will be referred to as "beer." Substances once known as "American Beer" will henceforth be referred to as "Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine," except for the product of the American Budweiser company which will be called "Weak Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine." This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.

11. The UK will harmonise petrol prices (or "Gasoline," as you will be permitted to keep calling it) for those of the former USA, adopting UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon, get used to it).

12. Learn to resolve personal issues without guns, lawyers or therapists. That you need many lawyers and therapists shows you're not adult enough to be independent. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.

13. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

14. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

Thank you for your co-operation.

* John Cleese [Basil Fawlty, Fawlty Towers, Sir Lancelot of Camelot (Monty Python & The Quest for the Holy Grail), Torquay, Devon, England]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
You're still not listening, the same way they didn't listen

I gave you a quote from The NY Times (not Fox News) stating that warning sign were missed with the San Bernardino shooters wife and you still are blabbling on about "easy soundbites" targeting Muslims.

Democrats need to get their heads out of their arses big time.....they're primed to get demolished at the midterms if Trump does well (and I grudgingly admit he will do okay....call him
What you want, but he's not stupid)

You posted the quote and mentioned nothing about warning signs, just that she was the 'instigator'.

I read the article and it seems to blame the lack of a check of social media posts. Is that your solution? More checking of social media posts?

The 911 bombers were trained in the US: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/)

People with 'known links to Bin Laden', who was behind the WTC bombing in 1993, were allowed to do their flight training in the US. They were known to authorities but nothing was done.

You can vet all you like, but you need resources and the right people doing the vetting otherwise you get the above ridiculous situations.

Saying we need to do a better job vetting people is not rascist or Islamophobic, but it could be twisted into that by people pursuing an uber PC agenda?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
You're still not listening, the same way they didn't listen

I gave you a quote from The NY Times (not Fox News) stating that warning sign were missed with the San Bernardino shooters wife and you still are blabbling on about "easy soundbites" targeting Muslims.

Democrats need to get their heads out of their arses big time.....they're primed to get demolished at the midterms if Trump does well (and I grudgingly admit he will do okay....call him
What you want, but he's not stupid)

You posted the quote and mentioned nothing about warning signs, just that she was the 'instigator'.

I read the article and it seems to blame the lack of a check of social media posts. Is that your solution? More checking of social media posts?

The 911 bombers were trained in the US: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/)

People with 'known links to Bin Laden', who was behind the WTC bombing in 1993, were allowed to do their flight training in the US. They were known to authorities but nothing was done.

You can vet all you like, but you need resources and the right people doing the vetting otherwise you get the above ridiculous situations.

Saying we need to do a better job vetting people is not rascist or Islamophobic, but it could be twisted into that by people pursuing an uber PC agenda?

If you have information that a bunch of men known to be associates of Osama Bin Laden, doing flight training in the US, but uniquely not taking lessons in take-off or landing, then it is probably a good idea to investigate.

I haven't mentioned religion or race. Your need to be outraged is polluting your head.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
You're still not listening, the same way they didn't listen

I gave you a quote from The NY Times (not Fox News) stating that warning sign were missed with the San Bernardino shooters wife and you still are blabbling on about "easy soundbites" targeting Muslims.

Democrats need to get their heads out of their arses big time.....they're primed to get demolished at the midterms if Trump does well (and I grudgingly admit he will do okay....call him
What you want, but he's not stupid)

You posted the quote and mentioned nothing about warning signs, just that she was the 'instigator'.

I read the article and it seems to blame the lack of a check of social media posts. Is that your solution? More checking of social media posts?

The 911 bombers were trained in the US: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/)

People with 'known links to Bin Laden', who was behind the WTC bombing in 1993, were allowed to do their flight training in the US. They were known to authorities but nothing was done.

You can vet all you like, but you need resources and the right people doing the vetting otherwise you get the above ridiculous situations.

Saying we need to do a better job vetting people is not rascist or Islamophobic, but it could be twisted into that by people pursuing an uber PC agenda?

If you have information that a bunch of men known to be associates of Osama Bin Laden, doing flight training in the US, but uniquely not taking lessons in take-off or landing, then it is probably a good idea to investigate.

I haven't mentioned religion or race. Your need to be outraged is polluting your head.

And thats exactly the same sneering, dismissive, "I know better than you " attitude that lost both the White House and the Supreme Court for the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
You're still not listening, the same way they didn't listen

I gave you a quote from The NY Times (not Fox News) stating that warning sign were missed with the San Bernardino shooters wife and you still are blabbling on about "easy soundbites" targeting Muslims.

Democrats need to get their heads out of their arses big time.....they're primed to get demolished at the midterms if Trump does well (and I grudgingly admit he will do okay....call him
What you want, but he's not stupid)

You posted the quote and mentioned nothing about warning signs, just that she was the 'instigator'.

I read the article and it seems to blame the lack of a check of social media posts. Is that your solution? More checking of social media posts?

The 911 bombers were trained in the US: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/)

People with 'known links to Bin Laden', who was behind the WTC bombing in 1993, were allowed to do their flight training in the US. They were known to authorities but nothing was done.

You can vet all you like, but you need resources and the right people doing the vetting otherwise you get the above ridiculous situations.

Saying we need to do a better job vetting people is not rascist or Islamophobic, but it could be twisted into that by people pursuing an uber PC agenda?

If you have information that a bunch of men known to be associates of Osama Bin Laden, doing flight training in the US, but uniquely not taking lessons in take-off or landing, then it is probably a good idea to investigate.

I haven't mentioned religion or race. Your need to be outraged is polluting your head.

And thats exactly the same sneering, dismissive, "I know better than you " attitude that lost both the White House and the Supreme Court for the Democrats

'I know netter than you'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

"you're still not listening, the same way they didn't listen"

But its ok when you do it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 08:17:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

Don't make me laugh.

Trump isn't even listening any more. Why would he, the election is over and they fell for it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html)

What he might do though, is incarcerate many of them. And Mexicans too. You pointed out that prisons sticks rose after he won. There is a very good reason for that. It makes some very rich people richer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:21:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party
The election was more or less 50/50
Trump had better bots
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:24:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 08:17:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

Don't make me laugh.

Trump isn't even listening any more. Why would he, the election is over and they fell for it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html)

What he might do though, is incarcerate many of them. And Mexicans too. You pointed out that prisons sticks rose after he won. There is a very good reason for that. It makes some very rich people richer.
Trump sold a fraud
Same as Brexit

Control/Make America great and you get a cabal of right wing extremists

He will be as successful as Bojo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
You're still not listening, the same way they didn't listen

I gave you a quote from The NY Times (not Fox News) stating that warning sign were missed with the San Bernardino shooters wife and you still are blabbling on about "easy soundbites" targeting Muslims.

Democrats need to get their heads out of their arses big time.....they're primed to get demolished at the midterms if Trump does well (and I grudgingly admit he will do okay....call him
What you want, but he's not stupid)

You posted the quote and mentioned nothing about warning signs, just that she was the 'instigator'.

I read the article and it seems to blame the lack of a check of social media posts. Is that your solution? More checking of social media posts?

The 911 bombers were trained in the US: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/23/fbi-knew-terrorists-were-using-flight-schools/377177b0-b632-429f-9a15-393c2256c2b4/)

People with 'known links to Bin Laden', who was behind the WTC bombing in 1993, were allowed to do their flight training in the US. They were known to authorities but nothing was done.

You can vet all you like, but you need resources and the right people doing the vetting otherwise you get the above ridiculous situations.

Saying we need to do a better job vetting people is not rascist or Islamophobic, but it could be twisted into that by people pursuing an uber PC agenda?
The real danger to the US isn't Muslim. It's a guy with a combover. It's 2 brothers in their late 70s. It's Breitbart.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:28:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:21:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party
The election was more or less 50/50
Trump had better bots


Corect, but in a very tight race Trump flipped enough traditionally Democratic supporters over to his side and that made all the difference in the swing states

http://www.cnbc.com/heres-a-map-of-the-us-counties-that-flipped-to-trump-from-democrats/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on November 13, 2016, 08:29:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 08:17:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

Don't make me laugh.

Trump isn't even listening any more. Why would he, the election is over and they fell for it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html)

What he might do though, is incarcerate many of them. And Mexicans too. You pointed out that prisons sticks rose after he won. There is a very good reason for that. It makes some very rich people richer.

You're doing what the dems did muppet and underestimating Trump and also underestimating the average American. Trump was the worst Republican candidate in years and the dems still fucked it up.

All the derision in the world won't change the fact that the dems are stupider than the average trump voter. People cause trump of being insulting and a divisive figure but the dems are as quick as trump is to protay the opposition as the deplorables; a semi-literate, xenophobic, flat earther rabble. You don't win friends or arguments with condescendion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:28:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:21:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party
The election was more or less 50/50
Trump had better bots


Corect, but in a very tight race Trump flipped enough traditionally Democratic supporters over to his side and that made all the difference in the swing states

http://www.cnbc.com/heres-a-map-of-the-us-counties-that-flipped-to-trump-from-democrats/
I think it will turn out to be a pyrrhic victory.
Whining about Obamacare and obstructing is easy.

"There is precedent for a government shutdown, but there is no precedent for a default," said Lloyd Blankfein, the chief executive of Goldman Sachs, after a meeting between President Barack Obama and top Wall Street chief executives. He was citing the threat of default if Washington's feuding lawmakers fail to agree to extend the borrowing limit by October 17.
A highly anticipated meeting Wednesday evening between Mr Obama, John Boehner, the Republican Speaker of the House, and other leaders ended without any sign of progress.
"They will not negotiate," Mr Boehner said, standing outside the White House. "At some point we have to allow the process to work out."

Fox now will have to defend GOP Policy and a lot of system problems can't take any more procrastination. Fox will have to be largely fact based which will be a challenge.
There is a good GOP party somewhere underneath all the bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 09:50:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Don't believe me if you don't want

Ill paraphrase that's guy they interviewed in the article. ..."people are sick and tired of being talked down to".


While I accept that may not be your individual experience, it has been the experience of many blue collar Democrats who ma
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Don't believe me if you don't want

Ill paraphrase that's guy they interviewed in the article. ..."people are sick and tired of being talked down to".


While I accept that may not be your individual experience, it has been the experience of many blue collar Democrats who may be somewhat socially conservative and they gave their response at the polls this past Tuesday and that's why Trump is in the White House

But I'm not talking about their perception.

I'm talking about reality and whether their perception is objectively legitimate.

To use an extreme example for illustration, is the average KKK member or Islamic jihadist owed some recognition and legitimization by the political system?


Lolololol

But who's to decide "if their perception is objectively legitimate"?

You may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, The NY Times and CNN may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, the people from Georgetown and the Upper West Side may not view their perceptions as objectively legitimate, but THEY sure as $hit view them as objectively legitimate


y be somewhat socially conservative and they gave their response at the polls this past Tuesday and that's why Trump is in the White House

But I'm not talking about their perception.

I'm talking about reality and whether their perception is objectively legitimate.

To use an extreme example for illustration, is the average KKK member or Islamic jihadist owed some recognition and legitimization by the political system?


Lolololol

But who's to decide "if their perception is objectively legitimate"?

You may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, The NY Times and CNN may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, the people from Georgetown and the Upper West Side may not view their perceptions as objectively legitimate, but THEY sure as $hit view them as objectively legitimate

Yes, obviously they do.

Hence the KKK/Islamic jihadist reference - they also view their causes as legitimate.

However, their complaints, as outlined by you above e.g. objection to Obamacare being shouted down as racism, patently ARE bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 10:37:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 13, 2016, 08:29:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 08:17:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

Don't make me laugh.

Trump isn't even listening any more. Why would he, the election is over and they fell for it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html)

What he might do though, is incarcerate many of them. And Mexicans too. You pointed out that prisons sticks rose after he won. There is a very good reason for that. It makes some very rich people richer.

You're doing what the dems did muppet and underestimating Trump and also underestimating the average American. Trump was the worst Republican candidate in years and the dems still fucked it up.

All the derision in the world won't change the fact that the dems are stupider than the average trump voter. People cause trump of being insulting and a divisive figure but the dems are as quick as trump is to protay the opposition as the deplorables; a semi-literate, xenophobic, flat earther rabble. You don't win friends or arguments with condescendion.

I'm underestimating him?  ;D

And you can say what you like about Dems. I am not one of them.

The US is in big trouble and each side are pointing the finger at each other. Both are to blame for Trump getting into power and both will be responsible for what comes next.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on November 13, 2016, 10:43:14 PM
Thought this was interesting

http://reaction.life/clinton-smug-liberals-lost-culture-war/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:38:03 PM

Fox now will have to defend GOP Policy and a lot of system problems can't take any more procrastination. Fox will have to be largely fact based which will be a challenge.
That is extremely wishful thinking.

It's not as if they were fact-based during the Bush presidency and the likes of Breitbart and the alt-right nutters weren't around then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2016, 10:50:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

What do you want regarding vetting that isn't there now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 09:50:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Don't believe me if you don't want

Ill paraphrase that's guy they interviewed in the article. ..."people are sick and tired of being talked down to".


While I accept that may not be your individual experience, it has been the experience of many blue collar Democrats who ma
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Don't believe me if you don't want

Ill paraphrase that's guy they interviewed in the article. ..."people are sick and tired of being talked down to".


While I accept that may not be your individual experience, it has been the experience of many blue collar Democrats who may be somewhat socially conservative and they gave their response at the polls this past Tuesday and that's why Trump is in the White House

But I'm not talking about their perception.

I'm talking about reality and whether their perception is objectively legitimate.

To use an extreme example for illustration, is the average KKK member or Islamic jihadist owed some recognition and legitimization by the political system?


Lolololol

But who's to decide "if their perception is objectively legitimate"?

You may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, The NY Times and CNN may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, the people from Georgetown and the Upper West Side may not view their perceptions as objectively legitimate, but THEY sure as $hit view them as objectively legitimate


y be somewhat socially conservative and they gave their response at the polls this past Tuesday and that's why Trump is in the White House

But I'm not talking about their perception.

I'm talking about reality and whether their perception is objectively legitimate.

To use an extreme example for illustration, is the average KKK member or Islamic jihadist owed some recognition and legitimization by the political system?


Lolololol

But who's to decide "if their perception is objectively legitimate"?

You may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, The NY Times and CNN may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, the people from Georgetown and the Upper West Side may not view their perceptions as objectively legitimate, but THEY sure as $hit view them as objectively legitimate

Yes, obviously they do.

Hence the KKK/Islamic jihadist reference - they also view their causes as legitimate.

However, their complaints, as outlined by you above e.g. objection to Obamacare being shouted down as racism, patently ARE bullshit.

Do you think I make this stuff up??????

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/05/23/yes-opposition-to-obamacare-is-tied-up-with-race/

"And second, a growing body of evidence demonstrates that race plays a role in many people's opposition to the law."

And I have heard it dozens of times on satellite radio and on social media


(A cousin of mine is also blabbing on about the KKK....do you know how many people are in the KKK???. Anywhere from 5,000-12,0000.......which would translate to somewhere between 1/1000 and 3/1000 of 1% of the entire population of the United States.  So comparing the legitimacy of that group opinions with the legitimacy of a group of tens of millions whose insurance has skyrocketed, or who may oppose transgender bathrooms is a false equivalence of gargantuan proportions)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:02:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:38:03 PM

Fox now will have to defend GOP Policy and a lot of system problems can't take any more procrastination. Fox will have to be largely fact based which will be a challenge.
That is extremely wishful thinking.

It's not as if they were fact-based during the Bush presidency and the likes of Breitbart and the alt-right nutters weren't around then.
the alt right drove a tank in a general's rank when the Blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank
I know the Daily Mail is doing its best but the Financial system is collapsing and it's very hard to maintain bullshit indefinitely when the data are so shit and people are living it.
the GOP is unlikely to come out of this in one shape.   
Because it is like the Tories. It doesn't fix problems.

The UK has a deficit of 6% of GDP. The US has a healthcare sector that is almost one fifth of the economy. The Tories want to leave Europe and f**k the deficit
The GOP want more rent out of healthcare

It's the hara kiri stage of the Thatcher business cycle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:08:02 PM
David Brooks in the NYT

"the guy will probably resign or be impeached within a year"

Trump was attracted by the role of President as a way to feed his ego.
But the US is in serious trouble . And it's not just for Christmas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:37:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 10:37:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 13, 2016, 08:29:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2016, 08:17:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

Don't make me laugh.

Trump isn't even listening any more. Why would he, the election is over and they fell for it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-election-muslim-ban-immigrants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html)

What he might do though, is incarcerate many of them. And Mexicans too. You pointed out that prisons sticks rose after he won. There is a very good reason for that. It makes some very rich people richer.

You're doing what the dems did muppet and underestimating Trump and also underestimating the average American. Trump was the worst Republican candidate in years and the dems still fucked it up.

All the derision in the world won't change the fact that the dems are stupider than the average trump voter. People cause trump of being insulting and a divisive figure but the dems are as quick as trump is to protay the opposition as the deplorables; a semi-literate, xenophobic, flat earther rabble. You don't win friends or arguments with condescendion.

I'm underestimating him?  ;D

And you can say what you like about Dems. I am not one of them.

The US is in big trouble and each side are pointing the finger at each other. Both are to blame for Trump getting into power and both will be responsible for what comes next.
Politicians don't do responsibility.
When TSHTF voters are on their own.
That is how it works with mortgage debt etc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:38:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 09:50:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Don't believe me if you don't want

Ill paraphrase that's guy they interviewed in the article. ..."people are sick and tired of being talked down to".


While I accept that may not be your individual experience, it has been the experience of many blue collar Democrats who ma
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Don't believe me if you don't want

Ill paraphrase that's guy they interviewed in the article. ..."people are sick and tired of being talked down to".


While I accept that may not be your individual experience, it has been the experience of many blue collar Democrats who may be somewhat socially conservative and they gave their response at the polls this past Tuesday and that's why Trump is in the White House

But I'm not talking about their perception.

I'm talking about reality and whether their perception is objectively legitimate.

To use an extreme example for illustration, is the average KKK member or Islamic jihadist owed some recognition and legitimization by the political system?


Lolololol

But who's to decide "if their perception is objectively legitimate"?

You may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, The NY Times and CNN may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, the people from Georgetown and the Upper West Side may not view their perceptions as objectively legitimate, but THEY sure as $hit view them as objectively legitimate


y be somewhat socially conservative and they gave their response at the polls this past Tuesday and that's why Trump is in the White House

But I'm not talking about their perception.

I'm talking about reality and whether their perception is objectively legitimate.

To use an extreme example for illustration, is the average KKK member or Islamic jihadist owed some recognition and legitimization by the political system?


Lolololol

But who's to decide "if their perception is objectively legitimate"?

You may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, The NY Times and CNN may not view their concerns as objectively legitimate, the people from Georgetown and the Upper West Side may not view their perceptions as objectively legitimate, but THEY sure as $hit view them as objectively legitimate

Yes, obviously they do.

Hence the KKK/Islamic jihadist reference - they also view their causes as legitimate.

However, their complaints, as outlined by you above e.g. objection to Obamacare being shouted down as racism, patently ARE bullshit.

Do you think I make this stuff up??????

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/05/23/yes-opposition-to-obamacare-is-tied-up-with-race/

"And second, a growing body of evidence demonstrates that race plays a role in many people's opposition to the law."

And I have heard it dozens of times on satellite radio and on social media


(A cousin of mine is also blabbing on about the KKK....do you know how many people are in the KKK???. Anywhere from 5,000-12,0000.......which would translate to somewhere between 1/1000 and 3/1000 of 1% of the entire population of the United States.  So comparing the legitimacy of that group opinions with the legitimacy of a group of tens of millions whose insurance has skyrocketed, or who may oppose transgender bathrooms is a false equivalence of gargantuan proportions)

1. Just because someone wrote an article two years ago and two senators had an exchange doesn't mean that the opinion that opposition to Obamacare is racially motivated is rampant among Democrats. Only someone looking to be offended or for an excuse to rant would make that extrapolation.
Besides, reading that article I'd be more concerned about the quotes from Rush Limbaugh if I were you, given his influence on the movement of which you say you are a part.

2. You must be drinking this weekend, because you're clearly having a comprehension problem, which is not usually the case. Scale or numbers is irrelevant to the Klan/jihadist example. The point is the opinion itself, NOT how many people espouse it. If the entire white population belonged to the KKK it would not improve their legitimacy one bit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 11:42:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html
Trump of course wasn't talking down to ethnic minorities, women, disabled people or anybody else.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:44:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html
People are tired of being shafted. They are tired of plamas.
So they voted for more plamas. And more shafting.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 11:45:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:02:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:38:03 PM

Fox now will have to defend GOP Policy and a lot of system problems can't take any more procrastination. Fox will have to be largely fact based which will be a challenge.
That is extremely wishful thinking.

It's not as if they were fact-based during the Bush presidency and the likes of Breitbart and the alt-right nutters weren't around then.
the alt right drove a tank in a general's rank when the Blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank
I know the Daily Mail is doing its best but the Financial system is collapsing and it's very hard to maintain bullshit indefinitely when the data are so shit and people are living it.
the GOP is unlikely to come out of this in one shape.   
Because it is like the Tories. It doesn't fix problems.

The UK has a deficit of 6% of GDP. The US has a healthcare sector that is almost one fifth of the economy. The Tories want to leave Europe and f**k the deficit
The GOP want more rent out of healthcare

It's the hara kiri stage of the Thatcher business cycle
On the contrary, the bullshit-o-meter should be off the chart now that Trump has been elected.

Continued Republican victories will depend on it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

So questioning their complaints is talking down to them?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

So questioning their complaints is talking down to them?

Accusing them of being sexist, rascist homophobic or Islamophibic without any justification is!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 11:51:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:44:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html
People are tired of being shafted. They are tired of plamas.
So they voted for more plamas. And more shafting.
Not so much draining the swamp as removing a load of earth with dry sheep droppings all over the top, and replacing it with a dump truck's worth of raw sewage in the shape of Gingrich, Giuliani, Bolton, Mnuchin, Bannon, Preibus and who knows, maybe Pamela Geller and Sheriff Arpaio.

And then rowing back into it and sinking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 14, 2016, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

So questioning their complaints is talking down to them?

Accusing them of being sexist, rascist homophobic or Islamophibic without any justification is!

So we are going around in circles!

Nothing you've posted has justified supporting Trump on that basis.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 12:14:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 11:51:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:44:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html
People are tired of being shafted. They are tired of plamas.
So they voted for more plamas. And more shafting.
Not so much draining the swamp as removing a load of earth with dry sheep droppings all over the top, and replacing it with a dump truck's worth of raw sewage in the shape of Gingrich, Giuliani, Bolton, Mnuchin, Bannon, Preibus and who knows, maybe Pamela Geller and Sheriff Arpaio.

And then rowing back into it and sinking.

The complaint out in flyover land is payrises. But unfortunately the only thing on the menu is lies. Never trust a junkie.

The Jewish angle is very interesting. Liberal Jews are terrified. Nazi Jews like Geller are radiant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 12:19:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 11:45:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:02:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:38:03 PM

Fox now will have to defend GOP Policy and a lot of system problems can't take any more procrastination. Fox will have to be largely fact based which will be a challenge.
That is extremely wishful thinking.

It's not as if they were fact-based during the Bush presidency and the likes of Breitbart and the alt-right nutters weren't around then.
the alt right drove a tank in a general's rank when the Blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank
I know the Daily Mail is doing its best but the Financial system is collapsing and it's very hard to maintain bullshit indefinitely when the data are so shit and people are living it.
the GOP is unlikely to come out of this in one shape.   
Because it is like the Tories. It doesn't fix problems.

The UK has a deficit of 6% of GDP. The US has a healthcare sector that is almost one fifth of the economy. The Tories want to leave Europe and f**k the deficit
The GOP want more rent out of healthcare

It's the hara kiri stage of the Thatcher business cycle
On the contrary, the bullshit-o-meter should be off the chart now that Trump has been elected.

Continued Republican victories will depend on it.
The people voted for Kochsuckers and more money for Wall St
This is not what it said on the tin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

They will not fix the economy.
So it will collapse

The GOP won't be winning any more elections for some time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2016, 12:40:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

So questioning their complaints is talking down to them?

Accusing them of being sexist, rascist homophobic or Islamophibic without any justification is!

So we are going around in circles!

Nothing you've posted has justified supporting Trump on that basis.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-donald-trump-voters-20161113-story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 12:46:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 12:40:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

So questioning their complaints is talking down to them?

Accusing them of being sexist, rascist homophobic or Islamophibic without any justification is!

So we are going around in circles!

Nothing you've posted has justified supporting Trump on that basis.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-donald-trump-voters-20161113-story.html

Stew would lambast these people telling to grow a set.

Here is the problem, Trump is clearly a misogynist, seems to live well down the racist road and the word islamophobe also appears to follow him round. That's fine.

So the question is, if you vote for such a person, is it fair to say those are your views as well? Serious question btw. Sometimes a vote is just a vote for the least worst option.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2016, 01:03:51 AM
All I can say (IMHO) is that the Dems have started catering to the opinions/values of the elite of the party and are intolerant of any dissenting opinions....people are fed up having their vote taken for granted and being told to sit down and shut up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 14, 2016, 01:17:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 12:14:52 AM


The Jewish angle is very interesting. Liberal Jews are terrified. Nazi Jews like Geller are radiant.

Journalist Peter Beinart's Twitter page is highly instructive.

https://twitter.com/PeterBeinart?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

From today's article by Gene Kerrigan:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/gene-kerrigan-sexist-trumps-sickly-land-of-grope-n-glory-35210752.html

On the street, we already know how that's going. On the night of the count, as it became clear that Trump would win, a prominent American journalist named Peter Beinart tweeted his solidarity with American Muslims, in the best liberal Jewish tradition.

His timeline filled with anti-Semitism. "Kike". "Get out of our country, parasite."

Twitter insults are common, but these came complete with the Nazi signifiers - the "Juden" remarks, the reference to "Zyklon B", used by the Nazis in the gas chambers. "In the ovens you go."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 14, 2016, 07:10:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 01:03:51 AM
All I can say (IMHO) is that the Dems have started catering to the opinions/values of the elite of the party and are intolerant of any dissenting opinions....people are fed up having their vote taken for granted and being told to sit down and shut up.

Do Trumps cabinet appointments respresent your opinions .. Whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 08:17:20 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2016, 01:17:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 12:14:52 AM


The Jewish angle is very interesting. Liberal Jews are terrified. Nazi Jews like Geller are radiant.

Journalist Peter Beinart's Twitter page is highly instructive.

https://twitter.com/PeterBeinart?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

From today's article by Gene Kerrigan:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/gene-kerrigan-sexist-trumps-sickly-land-of-grope-n-glory-35210752.html

On the street, we already know how that's going. On the night of the count, as it became clear that Trump would win, a prominent American journalist named Peter Beinart tweeted his solidarity with American Muslims, in the best liberal Jewish tradition.

His timeline filled with anti-Semitism. "Kike". "Get out of our country, parasite."

Twitter insults are common, but these came complete with the Nazi signifiers - the "Juden" remarks, the reference to "Zyklon B", used by the Nazis in the gas chambers. "In the ovens you go."
Steve Bannon from Breitbart which is the hate factory and produced the bots and the Antisemitism is now Trump's right hand man in the White house

https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/11/13/white-nationalist-who-hates-jews-will-be-trumps-right-hand-man-white-house/214419

This is not the onshore/offshore Mayo lads having an argument about hopey changy versus traditional republican thinking

This is the 1930s. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 08:28:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 01:03:51 AM
All I can say (IMHO) is that the Dems have started catering to the opinions/values of the elite of the party and are intolerant of any dissenting opinions....people are fed up having their vote taken for granted and being told to sit down and shut up.
That was last week, Whitey


Stephen Colbert ‏@StephenAtHome  11 nov.
You know, when you really think about it, I don't recommend you think about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 08:44:09 AM
The hate comes from the top and is distributed via social media.  Kids respond to it
This is how the Cultural Revolution worked in China 

http://wncn.com/2016/11/11/durham-teacher-suspended-following-expletive-filled-tirade-towards-students/

DURHAM, N.C. (WNCN) – A Durham middle school teacher has been suspended after audio recordings show her going on an expletive-filled tirade in class.
Majonica Haithcox was recorded by a student Wednesday where she expressed her frustrations with the election and her student's level of respect.
Superintendent Bert L'Homme
issued a statement saying Haithcox has been suspended pending further disciplinary action.
"I will not tolerate yelling and foul language with students. My statement this week was clear: we must provide a safe, respectful and welcoming environment for ALL students. The teacher in question has been suspended pending a recommendation for disciplinary action," L'Homme said in a statement.
Haithcox is listed as an eight grade language arts teacher at Shepard Middle School.
"Don't talk to me! I don't give a (expletive,)" Haithcox can be heard yelling. "The social climate is too intense for us to keep acting like a (expletive) fool. We are smart. We don't do that (expletive)."
Haithcox hammers the students about the election and what she believes the future will hold.
"You can think it's funny now but y'all be the ones crying 10 years from now, 'oh, I should have listened to her,'" Haithcox said. "Get your (expletive) together."
The teacher then said she had no problem taking her issues up with her students' parents.
"Tell your parents. I'll call them on the phone and cuss them out, too," she said. "After the first week I stopped giving a damn because y'all didn't give a damn."
Haithcox then works to justify her tirade to the students.
"I'm cussing at you because this is honestly the only way it's gonna hit y'all," she said. "I gotta be real with y'all, I'm a real-ass (expletive) that's what it is. I keep it real. I keep it honest. Y'all are (expletive) up."
Haithcox then moves on to discuss the difficulties of being a teacher.
"I'm losing sleep. I'm waking up at 2 in the (expletive) morning to make sure y'all have work," she said. "Maybe they'll give you some white teachers that care about ya'll."
A student in Haithcox's class said she is "nice actually, but she was upset about the election results, and her anger came out on us."
Attempts to contact Haithcox have been unsuccessful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 09:00:29 AM
4 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0qnRlwLbw

But the Dems don't understand the people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 10:15:19 AM
Fake plastic GOP trees

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/debunk-fake-news-election-day.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 14, 2016, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2016, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2016, 11:25:50 AM
As predicted, Trump has done a back flip on his major campaign promise to "immediately repeal and replace Obamacare" towards a tinkering with it,
and this is just his first major interview a few days after being elected, 2 months before taking up office.

He has no choice. There are serious problems with the health insurance system, but people like a lot of what Obamacare brought in, while they can't just strip 20 million people of health insurance.

What the insanity Freedom Caucus and their allies in the House make of it is another issue.
This thread moves fast.

You make it sound (unintentional perhaps)  that there is an element of pragmatism involved with Trump doing a backflip on Obamacare the day after getting elected, instead of what it is when a politicians breaks a major election promises, in this case Trump knew he would have to do a backflip but persisted with his big lie all along in regards to a major election promise just until he got elected, that would be a rated as  top grade cynical political hypocrisy.

What is transpiring though is that with Trump in the presidential seat, means the Trump supporters are off the streets and instead the presidency will become the focus for social protest, even though Trump will not manage to carry out more than a fraction of the hate crimes he promised.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 14, 2016, 11:30:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 14, 2016, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2016, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2016, 11:25:50 AM
As predicted, Trump has done a back flip on his major campaign promise to "immediately repeal and replace Obamacare" towards a tinkering with it,
and this is just his first major interview a few days after being elected, 2 months before taking up office.

He has no choice. There are serious problems with the health insurance system, but people like a lot of what Obamacare brought in, while they can't just strip 20 million people of health insurance.

What the insanity Freedom Caucus and their allies in the House make of it is another issue.
This thread moves fast.

You make it sound (unintentional perhaps)  that there is an element of pragmatism involved with Trump doing a backflip on Obamacare the day after getting elected, instead of what it is when a politicians breaks a major election promises, in this case Trump knew he would have to do a backflip but persisted with his big lie all along in regards to a major election promise just until he got elected, that would be a rated as  top grade cynical political hypocrisy.

What is transpiring though is that with Trump in the presidential seat, means the Trump supporters are off the streets and instead the presidency will become the focus for social protest, even though Trump will not manage to carry out more than a fraction of the hate crimes he promised.

What hate crimes did the president elect promise exactly?


Liberals see racism everywhere these days, they had the market cornered in it back when they were slave owners but now, if you utter a word against their policies you are a bitter, uneducated racist bigot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 14, 2016, 11:36:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 12:19:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 11:45:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 11:02:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2016, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2016, 08:38:03 PM

Fox now will have to defend GOP Policy and a lot of system problems can't take any more procrastination. Fox will have to be largely fact based which will be a challenge.
That is extremely wishful thinking.

It's not as if they were fact-based during the Bush presidency and the likes of Breitbart and the alt-right nutters weren't around then.
the alt right drove a tank in a general's rank when the Blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank
I know the Daily Mail is doing its best but the Financial system is collapsing and it's very hard to maintain bullshit indefinitely when the data are so shit and people are living it.
the GOP is unlikely to come out of this in one shape.   
Because it is like the Tories. It doesn't fix problems.

The UK has a deficit of 6% of GDP. The US has a healthcare sector that is almost one fifth of the economy. The Tories want to leave Europe and f**k the deficit
The GOP want more rent out of healthcare

It's the hara kiri stage of the Thatcher business cycle
On the contrary, the bullshit-o-meter should be off the chart now that Trump has been elected.

Continued Republican victories will depend on it.
The people voted for Kochsuckers and more money for Wall St
This is not what it said on the tin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

They will not fix the economy.
So it will collapse

The GOP won't be winning any more elections for some time

They have not won one for some time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 14, 2016, 11:39:40 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2016, 12:46:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 12:40:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

So questioning their complaints is talking down to them?

Accusing them of being sexist, rascist homophobic or Islamophibic without any justification is!

So we are going around in circles!

Nothing you've posted has justified supporting Trump on that basis.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-donald-trump-voters-20161113-story.html

Stew would lambast these people telling to grow a set.

Here is the problem, Trump is clearly a misogynist, seems to live well down the racist road and the word islamophobe also appears to follow him round. That's fine.

So the question is, if you vote for such a person, is it fair to say those are your views as well? Serious question btw. Sometimes a vote is just a vote for the least worst option.

No, if you voted for Clinton that does not make you a criminal, a woman hater, a hater of the middle class, a war monger, you probably just coukdnt stand the thought of a blowhard billionaire self loving arsehole as your next president so you chose the second best option!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 11:39:46 AM
Quote from: stew on November 14, 2016, 11:30:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 14, 2016, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2016, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2016, 11:25:50 AM
As predicted, Trump has done a back flip on his major campaign promise to "immediately repeal and replace Obamacare" towards a tinkering with it,
and this is just his first major interview a few days after being elected, 2 months before taking up office.

He has no choice. There are serious problems with the health insurance system, but people like a lot of what Obamacare brought in, while they can't just strip 20 million people of health insurance.

What the insanity Freedom Caucus and their allies in the House make of it is another issue.
This thread moves fast.

You make it sound (unintentional perhaps)  that there is an element of pragmatism involved with Trump doing a backflip on Obamacare the day after getting elected, instead of what it is when a politicians breaks a major election promises, in this case Trump knew he would have to do a backflip but persisted with his big lie all along in regards to a major election promise just until he got elected, that would be a rated as  top grade cynical political hypocrisy.

What is transpiring though is that with Trump in the presidential seat, means the Trump supporters are off the streets and instead the presidency will become the focus for social protest, even though Trump will not manage to carry out more than a fraction of the hate crimes he promised.

What hate crimes did the president elect promise exactly?


Liberals see racism everywhere these days, they had the market cornered in it back when they were slave owners but now, if you utter a word against their policies you are a bitter, uneducated racist bigot.
Stew you always came across as very decent.
Trump has as his strategy chief the head of Breitbart who used psy ops including vile antisemitic filth to get the man elected.

There is nothing wrong with conservative values

But Breitbart is outside the pale.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 11:42:59 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 14, 2016, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2016, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2016, 11:25:50 AM
As predicted, Trump has done a back flip on his major campaign promise to "immediately repeal and replace Obamacare" towards a tinkering with it,
and this is just his first major interview a few days after being elected, 2 months before taking up office.

He has no choice. There are serious problems with the health insurance system, but people like a lot of what Obamacare brought in, while they can't just strip 20 million people of health insurance.

What the insanity Freedom Caucus and their allies in the House make of it is another issue.
This thread moves fast.

You make it sound (unintentional perhaps)  that there is an element of pragmatism involved with Trump doing a backflip on Obamacare the day after getting elected, instead of what it is when a politicians breaks a major election promises, in this case Trump knew he would have to do a backflip but persisted with his big lie all along in regards to a major election promise just until he got elected, that would be a rated as  top grade cynical political hypocrisy.

What is transpiring though is that with Trump in the presidential seat, means the Trump supporters are off the streets and instead the presidency will become the focus for social protest, even though Trump will not manage to carry out more than a fraction of the hate crimes he promised.
Trump set the ball rolling. Now the hate is working its way through the general population. The regime will strip Environmental protection while everyone is distracted. J Goebbels is the reference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 14, 2016, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 11:42:59 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 14, 2016, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2016, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2016, 11:25:50 AM
As predicted, Trump has done a back flip on his major campaign promise to "immediately repeal and replace Obamacare" towards a tinkering with it,
and this is just his first major interview a few days after being elected, 2 months before taking up office.

He has no choice. There are serious problems with the health insurance system, but people like a lot of what Obamacare brought in, while they can't just strip 20 million people of health insurance.

What the insanity Freedom Caucus and their allies in the House make of it is another issue.
This thread moves fast.

You make it sound (unintentional perhaps)  that there is an element of pragmatism involved with Trump doing a backflip on Obamacare the day after getting elected, instead of what it is when a politicians breaks a major election promises, in this case Trump knew he would have to do a backflip but persisted with his big lie all along in regards to a major election promise just until he got elected, that would be a rated as  top grade cynical political hypocrisy.

What is transpiring though is that with Trump in the presidential seat, means the Trump supporters are off the streets and instead the presidency will become the focus for social protest, even though Trump will not manage to carry out more than a fraction of the hate crimes he promised.
Trump set the ball rolling. Now the hate is working its way through the general population. The regime will strip Environmental protection while everyone is distracted. J Goebbels is the reference.

Already Trump has backflipped on many of his hate crime promises but there is one in particular which he referred to post election.
Info taken from http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/13/1598432/-Trump-again-promises-immediate-effort-to-jail-or-deport-millions (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/13/1598432/-Trump-again-promises-immediate-effort-to-jail-or-deport-millions)

"What we are going to do is get the people that are criminal and have criminal records, gang members, drug dealers, where a lot of these people, probably 2 million, it could be even 3 million, we are getting them out of our country or we are going to incarcerate," Trump said in the interview. "But we're getting them out of our country, they're here illegally."

There are not 3m undocumented immigrants with "criminal" records to jail or deport. It's not even close.
There are estimated  820K undocumented immigrants with a criminal record and crossing the border illegally ranks high in the list of crimes.

In the list of some 300,000 deportations, most had no  serious criminal record at all.

Trump's promises amount to a  hate crime allowing undocumented residents to be victimized by crime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 12:29:24 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_IFHYzk0rY
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 12:49:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 01:03:51 AM
All I can say (IMHO) is that the Dems have started catering to the opinions/values of the elite of the party and are intolerant of any dissenting opinions....people are fed up having their vote taken for granted and being told to sit down and shut up.

Dissenting opinions all matter, don't they?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxMg6-WWIAAcj9s.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxKAe33VIAE6FK4.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 01:33:21 PM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-point-man-on-financial-regulation-a-former-regulator-who-favors-a-light-touch-1478860201?mod=e2tw (http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-point-man-on-financial-regulation-a-former-regulator-who-favors-a-light-touch-1478860201?mod=e2tw)

...Paul Atkins served as a Republican member of the Securities and Exchange Commission from 2002 to 2008, where he spoke out against big fines for companies, arguing they punish shareholders. Now Mr. Atkins, 58 years old, is the member of the president-elect's transition team charged with recommending policies on financial regulation, according to current and former regulators briefed on the matter....


Light touch regulation coming for Wall Street then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 01:34:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2016, 01:33:21 PM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-point-man-on-financial-regulation-a-former-regulator-who-favors-a-light-touch-1478860201?mod=e2tw (http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-point-man-on-financial-regulation-a-former-regulator-who-favors-a-light-touch-1478860201?mod=e2tw)

...Paul Atkins served as a Republican member of the Securities and Exchange Commission from 2002 to 2008, where he spoke out against big fines for companies, arguing they punish shareholders. Now Mr. Atkins, 58 years old, is the member of the president-elect's transition team charged with recommending policies on financial regulation, according to current and former regulators briefed on the matter....


Light touch regulation coming for Wall Street then.
Crash guaranteed

Dimon of JPM said a while ago that a crash is expected every 7 to 10 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 14, 2016, 03:01:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 12:40:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

So questioning their complaints is talking down to them?

Accusing them of being sexist, rascist homophobic or Islamophibic without any justification is!

So we are going around in circles!

Nothing you've posted has justified supporting Trump on that basis.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-donald-trump-voters-20161113-story.html

You keep posting these articles quoting people on WHY they voted for Trump. They do not examine the accuracy of their reasons or complaints though. Which is what I'm on about.

Is there any data showing that illegal immigrants are driving up house prices or making up a majority of welfare recipients?

The woman who is pissed off because Obama lit up the White House in rainbow colours to celebrate full equality for gays? Are we supposed to roll back gay rights to make her and people like her feel better?

The people who think Trump is going bring back manufacturing jobs - is there any data to back up their expectations?

The ones who lament the increasing diversity - are they right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 04:15:50 PM
https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/11/14/conspiracy-theorist-alex-jones-says-president-elect-trump-called-thank-his-audience/214424 (https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/11/14/conspiracy-theorist-alex-jones-says-president-elect-trump-called-thank-his-audience/214424)

Surely this isn't true.


......Conspiracy theorist radio host Alex Jones, who believes the government was involved in the 9/11 attacks, numerous school shootings, and the Oklahoma City bombing, says President-elect Donald Trump personally called him to "thank" Jones' audience for its support during the campaign. According to Jones, Trump said he plans to appear on Jones' radio show "in the next few weeks."...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 14, 2016, 04:20:03 PM
If you want to get scared, follow the hashtag #rwds. It stands for "Right Wing Death Squad".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

You talk to them. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you ridicule them from a position where you believe they are too stupid to be taken seriously. You have to show them there is another way to protect them than banning all muslims, or building walls.

It's a very silly error to just discount the worries because you can't be bothered to try and talk to them. Show them the alternative view. Show them why they have nothing to fear. Obviously that wasn't done well enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 14, 2016, 04:20:03 PM
If you want to get scared, follow the hashtag #rwds. It stands for "Right Wing Death Squad".

Similar to post-Brexit. But with M16s.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:29:43 PM
And by the way, I'm not saying there are not some unreasonable, far right wing nut jobs that you cannot reason with, just like the pinko lefties that would have us all eating nuts and hugging trees. There is a large middle ground of reasonable people with genuine fears, and the people that talk to them, reasonably, would have a great chance of doing well. The more you discount their fears, the more you push them towards the right, and towards someone like a Trump.

I said before, I think Bernie Sanders would have won that election by a mile.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 04:38:04 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/12/trump-putin-alliance-sparks-diplomatic-crisis/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/12/trump-putin-alliance-sparks-diplomatic-crisis/)

12 NOVEMBER 2016 • 10:00PM
Britain is facing a diplomatic crisis with the US over Donald Trump's plans to forge an alliance with Vladimir Putin and bolster the Syrian regime.

In a significant foreign policy split, officials admitted that Britain will have some "very difficult" conversations with the President-elect in coming months over his approach to Russia.

It comes after Mr Trump used his first interviews since winning the US election to indicate that he will withdraw support for rebels in Syria and thank Vladimir Putin for sending him a "beautiful" letter.

Mr Trump said that he will instead join forces with Russia and focus on defeating Isil. He has previously said it would be "nice" if the US and Russia could work together to "knock the hell out of Isil".

His views are in stark contrast with those of Theresa May, who has accused President Assad's regime of perpetrating "atrocious violence" and said that the long-term future of Syria must be "without Assad".

Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, has accused Russia of perpetrating war crimes over the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

The dramatic shift in US policy has prompted significant concern in the Foreign Office, and Britain will use the next three months before Mr Trump enters the White House to try to convince him of the importance of removing President Assad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Clov on November 14, 2016, 04:39:14 PM
There's an old saying about elections that 'something beats nothing'. I think that was very true of this election. The Clinton campaign was too much focused on Trump and his shortcomings and did not have enough of a positive story to tell. It was a defensive campaign that gave the impression of someone scared to lose. Bernie would have offered an alternative vision and imo probably would have won.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 14, 2016, 04:44:05 PM
I think so too, I think that the sort of people who voted for Trump would have voted for Sanders

But then on the other hand Trump is a master at dismissing people...he would have played the Communist card till the hilt and it could well have stuck, on the other hand Sanders would have been in a better position to attack Trump's wealthy elitism than Clinton was.

Also people in America dont seem to vote on what will affect them, rather they vote on what their opinions are, Sanders was juxtaposed to this.

We will never know tho....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2016, 04:44:54 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

You talk to them. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you ridicule them from a position where you believe they are too stupid to be taken seriously. You have to show them there is another way to protect them than banning all muslims, or building walls.

It's a very silly error to just discount the worries because you can't be bothered to try and talk to them. Show them the alternative view. Show them why they have nothing to fear. Obviously that wasn't done well enough.

And therein lies the problem.....J70 gave you the views of those on the extreme, but there are also dissenting voices that are much more moderate and reasonable and those people get dismissed and ridiculed in an equally odious manner.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 04:45:24 PM
Quote from: Clov on November 14, 2016, 04:39:14 PM
There's an old saying about elections that 'something beats nothing'. I think that was very true of this election. The Clinton campaign was too much focused on Trump and his shortcomings and did not have enough of a positive story to tell. It was a defensive campaign that gave the impression of someone scared to lose. Bernie would have offered an alternative vision and imo probably would have won.

That is fair enough, I thought Hillary should have let others respond to Trump's taunts, on her behalf, and stick to policy in her comments.

However all of the analysis of Hillary's campaign completely ignores Trump's non-campaign. He truly offered nothing beyond a few easy answers and abuse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:50:07 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:29:43 PM
And by the way, I'm not saying there are not some unreasonable, far right wing nut jobs that you cannot reason with, just like the pinko lefties that would have us all eating nuts and hugging trees. There is a large middle ground of reasonable people with genuine fears, and the people that talk to them, reasonably, would have a great chance of doing well. The more you discount their fears, the more you push them towards the right, and towards someone like a Trump.

I said before, I think Bernie Sanders would have won that election by a mile.

It's all very well to say "talk" to them, but the US electorate is becoming extremely polarized and increasingly able to rely on partisan news (or more correctly, information) sources and commentary which omits any contrary opinion or viewpoint. That middle ground may be reasonable and polite, but the proportion who are swayable is probably not that big.

And again, you are assuming that gently explaining something, which may require a complex, nuanced answer, will drown out the noisy, simple, black and white, us against them, narrative coming from the other corner.

Climate change being a notable case in point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:53:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 04:44:54 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

You talk to them. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you ridicule them from a position where you believe they are too stupid to be taken seriously. You have to show them there is another way to protect them than banning all muslims, or building walls.

It's a very silly error to just discount the worries because you can't be bothered to try and talk to them. Show them the alternative view. Show them why they have nothing to fear. Obviously that wasn't done well enough.

And therein lies the problem.....J70 gave you the views of those on the extreme, but there are also dissenting voices that are much more moderate and reasonable and those people get dismissed and ridiculed in an equally odious manner.

I gave some extreme, some mainstream examples.

You think the lady pissed off about the rainbow colours or the dude complaining about all the brown skinned Spanish speakers at the welfare office are extreme? The climate change "skeptics"? Those whining about the war on xmas?

I would add though, that the Governor of Texas was among those promoting the Jade Helm conspiracy nonsense. And the President Elect, the birther horseshit.

Are they extremists?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 14, 2016, 05:16:54 PM
51% of Trump's tax cuts go to the top 1%; only 0.8% go to the bottom 20% - interesting times ahead

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw_zErXXgAI30ME.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 14, 2016, 05:28:11 PM
Oh Irony ;)

Pence pushes for email privacy
By MATTHEW NUSSBAUM 11/14/16 11:04 AM EST
Vice President-elect Mike Pence is seeking to keep secret the contents of an email relating to Indiana's participation, at his behest, in a lawsuit to block President Barack Obama's executive actions on immigration.

Pence's administration brought in an outside law firm to join the litigation, which was spearheaded by Texas Gov. Greg Abbot. The move prompted one Indianapolis lawyer to request documents related to the decision to bring in outside counsel.

Per the article: "Pence produced the documents in the request 'but those documents included substantial redaction,' according to court documents. The 57-page response also included an email that Daniel Hodge, Abbott's chief of staff, sent to 30 recipients in various states asking them to join the lawsuit against Obama. The message included an attached white paper, but the governor failed to produce the document, according to court records. After a yearlong trial, the Superior Court held that the issue was not a matter for the courts to decide, citing a Indiana Supreme Court case decided just days before."

Pence's efforts, so far upheld by state courts, were highlighted in an Indianapolis Star article Monday.

The effort to shield an email from public scrutiny follows an election in which Hillary Clinton's campaign was hounded by her use of a private email server while serving at the State Department — a move that was criticized as both a security risk and a blow against transparency.

The decision was appealed, and the Indiana Court of Appeals is set to hear oral arguments in Indianapolis on Nov. 21.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 14, 2016, 05:16:54 PM
51% of Trump's tax cuts go to the top 1%; only 0.8% go to the bottom 20% - interesting times ahead

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw_zErXXgAI30ME.jpg)
You would wonder how long it will take for bluecollar USA to realise it was all a piss take.  Especially the final video.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 06:06:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:29:43 PM
And by the way, I'm not saying there are not some unreasonable, far right wing nut jobs that you cannot reason with, just like the pinko lefties that would have us all eating nuts and hugging trees. There is a large middle ground of reasonable people with genuine fears, and the people that talk to them, reasonably, would have a great chance of doing well. The more you discount their fears, the more you push them towards the right, and towards someone like a Trump.

I said before, I think Bernie Sanders would have won that election by a mile.
Bannon fed their fears with hatred and lies and fraud 
Now he is head of strategy.
A long way from that shining city on the hill.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2016, 06:10:36 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters/index.html?sr=fbpol111416bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters0600PMVODtopLink&linkId=31135460

Donald Trump "very effectively" tapped into "the anger and angst and pain that many working class people are feeling," the Vermont independent senator who challenged Clinton in the Democratic primary said on "CBS This Morning."

"I think that there needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business," Sanders said. "It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from."



Don't  take my word for it..... is his is what Bernie said

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 06:10:36 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters/index.html?sr=fbpol111416bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters0600PMVODtopLink&linkId=31135460

Donald Trump "very effectively" tapped into "the anger and angst and pain that many working class people are feeling," the Vermont independent senator who challenged Clinton in the Democratic primary said on "CBS This Morning."

"I think that there needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business," Sanders said. "It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from."



Don't  take my word for it..... is his is what Bernie said

You can keep trying to take the focus off Trump, but you are going to find this more and more difficult as time passes.

The election is over, Clinton, lost, Sanders lost and a all of the other Republicans lost.

It is now ALL ABOUT TRUMP, just the way he likes it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 14, 2016, 07:16:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 06:10:36 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters/index.html?sr=fbpol111416bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters0600PMVODtopLink&linkId=31135460

Donald Trump "very effectively" tapped into "the anger and angst and pain that many working class people are feeling," the Vermont independent senator who challenged Clinton in the Democratic primary said on "CBS This Morning."

"I think that there needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business," Sanders said. "It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from."



Don't  take my word for it..... is his is what Bernie said


I would have loved him to have beaten  those two bastards.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2016, 09:03:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2016, 04:15:50 PM
https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/11/14/conspiracy-theorist-alex-jones-says-president-elect-trump-called-thank-his-audience/214424 (https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/11/14/conspiracy-theorist-alex-jones-says-president-elect-trump-called-thank-his-audience/214424)

Surely this isn't true.


......Conspiracy theorist radio host Alex Jones, who believes the government was involved in the 9/11 attacks, numerous school shootings, and the Oklahoma City bombing, says President-elect Donald Trump personally called him to "thank" Jones' audience for its support during the campaign. According to Jones, Trump said he plans to appear on Jones' radio show "in the next few weeks."...

The "country club Republicans" have had their heads handed to them. 

No more playing nice in the sandbox like Mr Romney did. 

Win at all costs, fight fire with fire, cue ball in a sock, brass knuckles.....whatever it takes to win

Thats the Republican Party of Mr Trump and its going to make life very uncomfortable for some people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 09:34:24 PM
Among those welcoming Mr Bannon's appointment was David Duke, the former Ku Klux Klan leader. "You have an individual, Mr Bannon, who's basically creating the ideological aspects of where we're going," Mr Duke told CNN. "And ideology ultimately is the most important aspect of any government."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

You talk to them. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you ridicule them from a position where you believe they are too stupid to be taken seriously. You have to show them there is another way to protect them than banning all muslims, or building walls.

It's a very silly error to just discount the worries because you can't be bothered to try and talk to them. Show them the alternative view. Show them why they have nothing to fear. Obviously that wasn't done well enough.
AZ, Nazis have to be destroyed. That is the lesson of WW2.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2016, 04:45:24 PM
Quote from: Clov on November 14, 2016, 04:39:14 PM
There's an old saying about elections that 'something beats nothing'. I think that was very true of this election. The Clinton campaign was too much focused on Trump and his shortcomings and did not have enough of a positive story to tell. It was a defensive campaign that gave the impression of someone scared to lose. Bernie would have offered an alternative vision and imo probably would have won.

That is fair enough, I thought Hillary should have let others respond to Trump's taunts, on her behalf, and stick to policy in her comments.

However all of the analysis of Hillary's campaign completely ignores Trump's non-campaign. He truly offered nothing beyond a few easy answers and abuse.
He ran on emotion. In the latter stages Bannon fed the hate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 14, 2016, 09:39:59 PM
There`s only 1 thing keeps the America economy going, a good war, i wonder who`s in their sight in the next 4 years,
as for some people who voted for this clown, you brought it all on uself, enjoy!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2016, 09:40:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

You talk to them. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you ridicule them from a position where you believe they are too stupid to be taken seriously. You have to show them there is another way to protect them than banning all muslims, or building walls.

It's a very silly error to just discount the worries because you can't be bothered to try and talk to them. Show them the alternative view. Show them why they have nothing to fear. Obviously that wasn't done well enough.
AZ, Nazis have to be destroyed. That is the lesson of WW2.

And agan.....that is the issue.....if you disagree with the elite of the Democratic Party you are NOT a Nazi.

If you guys keep it up, youre going to get completely wiped out in the mid terms in 2 years time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 14, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 09:40:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

You talk to them. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you ridicule them from a position where you believe they are too stupid to be taken seriously. You have to show them there is another way to protect them than banning all muslims, or building walls.

It's a very silly error to just discount the worries because you can't be bothered to try and talk to them. Show them the alternative view. Show them why they have nothing to fear. Obviously that wasn't done well enough.
AZ, Nazis have to be destroyed. That is the lesson of WW2.

And agan.....that is the issue.....if you disagree with the elite of the Democratic Party you are NOT a Nazi.

If you guys keep it up, youre going to get completely wiped out in the mid terms in 2 years time

Don't think Seafoid has too much to do with the Democratic Party, unless he's secretly pulling the strings of Bernie's campaign from the rocky mountains of Connemara.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 14, 2016, 09:55:04 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 14, 2016, 09:39:59 PM
There`s only 1 thing keeps the America economy going, a good war, i wonder who`s in their sight in the next 4 years,
as for some people who voted for this clown, you brought it all on uself, enjoy!!

Probably as,much as they enjoyed Obama and Clinton, the alternative was to elect a proven warmonger!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 14, 2016, 10:12:02 PM
https://twitter.com/julienmercille/status/798232851955273732 (https://twitter.com/julienmercille/status/798232851955273732)

As always Chomsky gives an alternative perspective
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 10:12:40 PM
Bannon is a Nazi. Priebus isn't  . The GOP does not need antisemitism to rule the US. It does not need misogyny.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 10:19:18 PM
Steve Bannon's Appointment Is a Moment of Truth for U.S. Jews
   
      After tapping campaign CEO Stephen Bannon as chief strategist, no one can say there is any ambiguity as to who Trump is and what kind of president he plans to be.
   
 
  Allison Kaplan Sommer    Nov 14, 2016 5:55 PM
Less than a week after Election Day, a clear moral dilemma is presenting itself to the American Jewish community: To work with or against the most powerful leader in the world – one who has placed a white supremacist and anti-Semite at his side. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               Donald Trump has appointed Stephen Bannon, his former campaign CEO, as chief strategist and top aide – a man who deliberately shaped the Breitbart news site into an online gathering place for racists, white nationalists and misogynists. No one can pretend there is any ambiguity as to who Trump is and what kind of president he plans to be. He is precisely the same divisive and dangerous figure he was in his campaign.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               If proof of that is necessary beyond the Bannon appointment, the fact that Trump has refused to repudiate his fractious and frightening campaign rhetoric in post-election interviews provides it. When asked directly by The Wall Street Journal if he regretted inveighing against Muslims, Latinos and other groups during his campaign, the president-elect said "No," because, after all, "I won."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               
                           
                                                                                        
                           
                                                                                                                                                                    Read more on Trump and American Jews: Dr. Priebus and Mr. Bannon: The stuff of which Jewish nightmares are made (Chemi Shalev)| President Trump has shattered Jews' American idyll (Chemi Shalev) | 'You deserve to be gassed': Hate crimes skyrocket after Trump win (Debra Nussbaum Cohen) | To the Trump voter who just told me to leave the country (Bradley Burston)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               During the days immediately following the elections, American Jews could do little more than cross their fingers, watching with trepidation for a signal as to what kind of president he would shape up to be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               The vast majority of U.S. Jews – liberal Democrats who voted against Trump in overwhelming numbers – were dismayed by his win, but hoped in the name of unity that he would disavow the vile rhetoric that characterized his campaign as he headed into the White House.
                                                                                     
                                                                        Trump campaign CEO Stephen Bannon at the final rally of Trump's 2016 presidential campaign in Michigan, Nov. 7, 2016. Mandel Ngan/AFP
               
               
               
           
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                               
                           
                  
               
                                                                                        Republican Jews, even some who had deep reservations about Trump, let themselves celebrate the fact that the GOP would now be in control of both the White House and the Capitol. Many had been reassured by surrogates like Trump lawyers Jason Greenblatt and David Friedman – and by Trump's Orthodox Jewish son-in-law Jared Kushner – that a Trump administration would indeed, be "good for the Jews" and, in particular, good for Israel. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               Pragmatic Jewish leaders, knowing who would be in power for the next four years, congratulated and reached out to Trump.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               The day after the election, there was already a preview of things to come. Matt Brooks, executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, attacked the Anti-Defamation League for its behavior during the campaign, charging that the ADL had been too hard on Trump's supporters.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               "The ADL has put itself potentially in a compromising position going forward, in terms of its ability to interact with the incoming administration," Brooks said.
                                                                                                                                                                          skip - ADL tweet
             
       
           
            
                                                        

                                  
                 
     
                                                                                                   
                                                               The ADL's CEO, Jonathan Greenblatt, responded defiantly that it would not be deterred in calling out anti-Semitism – no matter the source.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               And herein lies the crux of the problem. Republican loyalists and the large Jewish organizations whose raison d'etre is to broker and lobby the centers of power in the U.S. government on behalf of Jewish interests will feel they must maintain a connection with the Trump White House. They will be urged to do so by the Israeli government, which will effectively argue that it is a strategic necessity to stay on the good side of the White House, no matter who resides there and no matter who their aides are. 
                                                                                                                                                                          skip - fb share button
             
       
           
            
                                                        
Sharing is caring. Spread the word





                                  
                 
     
                                                                                                   
                                                               These groups are likely to justify "normalizing" Trump by pointing to the Israel-hostile and anti-Semitic elements within the left, and arguing that this never stopped them from talking to the Obama White House.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               It's exactly the same way in which Bannon defends the alt-right, which he denies is racist. In a Mother Jones interview, he contended: "Look, are there some people that are white nationalists that are attracted to some of the philosophies of the alt-right? Maybe," he said.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               "Are there some people that are anti-Semitic that are attracted? Maybe. Right? Maybe some people are attracted to the alt-right that are homophobes, right? But that's just like, there are certain elements of the progressive left and the hard left that attract certain elements." "
                                                                                                                                                                          skip - Rabbi Greenberg
             
       
           
            
                                                        

                                  
                 
     
                                                                                                   
                                                               Such equivalency, of course, is impossible to buy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               In 2008, after all, then-candidate Barack Obama ended up resigning his membership in his church over his pastor Jeremiah Wright's inflammatory remarks, which were mild compared to what Bannon published every day on Breitbart: He didn't bring Wright into his campaign, and he certainly didn't give him a top job at the White House. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               Groups like the ADL, for whom standing against anti-Semitism trumps getting along with the powers-that-be, certainly won't buy it. The ADL was the first – and so far the only – major U.S. Jewish organization to denounce Bannon's appointment.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               If violence against minorities continues to mount, and a Bannon-strategized White House continues to dismiss, ignore or in any way encourage it – the Jewish grass roots, particularly young Jews, won't stay silent when Jewish organizations and Israeli leaders "normalize" President Donald Trump with the usual "warm and productive" meetings and photo-ops that characterize the opening days of a presidency.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                               Think seas were stormy for Jews and Israel during the Obama-Netanyahu struggle over the Iran deal? We ain't seen nothing yet
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/.premium-1.753104?utm_content=%24sections%2F1.753104&utm_medium=email&utm_source=smartfocus&utm_campaign=%24segmentId&utm_term=20161114-17%3A11
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 14, 2016, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 09:40:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

You talk to them. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you ridicule them from a position where you believe they are too stupid to be taken seriously. You have to show them there is another way to protect them than banning all muslims, or building walls.

It's a very silly error to just discount the worries because you can't be bothered to try and talk to them. Show them the alternative view. Show them why they have nothing to fear. Obviously that wasn't done well enough.
AZ, Nazis have to be destroyed. That is the lesson of WW2.

And agan.....that is the issue.....if you disagree with the elite of the Democratic Party you are NOT a Nazi.

If you guys keep it up, youre going to get completely wiped out in the mid terms in 2 years time
The alt-right and even the not so alt-right are quite adept at throwing the Nazi slurs around, just see their constant references to feminists as "feminazis".

"Fascist liberals" is another one they love to throw around.

Yet when quite legitimate comparisons are made between how Donald Trump ran his campaign and what happened in the 1930s, you know, the vilification of an entire religion, the rhetoric about rounding up 11 million people and expelling them, the "lock her up" chants, the "you're going to jail" rhetoric and all that, it's somehow illegitimate.

Go figure.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2016, 11:08:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2016, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 09:40:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

You talk to them. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you ridicule them from a position where you believe they are too stupid to be taken seriously. You have to show them there is another way to protect them than banning all muslims, or building walls.

It's a very silly error to just discount the worries because you can't be bothered to try and talk to them. Show them the alternative view. Show them why they have nothing to fear. Obviously that wasn't done well enough.
AZ, Nazis have to be destroyed. That is the lesson of WW2.

And agan.....that is the issue.....if you disagree with the elite of the Democratic Party you are NOT a Nazi.

If you guys keep it up, youre going to get completely wiped out in the mid terms in 2 years time
The alt-right and even the not so alt-right are quite adept at throwing the Nazi slurs around, just see their constant references to feminists as "feminazis".

"Fascist liberals" is another one they love to throw around.

Yet when quite legitimate comparisons are made between how Donald Trump ran his campaign and what happened in the 1930s, you know, the vilification of an entire religion, the rhetoric about rounding up 11 million people and expelling them, the "lock her up" chants, the "you're going to jail" rhetoric and all that, it's somehow illegitimate.

Go figure.

Again youre missing the point...the Democrats are unjustly applying these labels to their own supporters whenever they have the audacity to disagree with the elites on issues such as transgender bathrooms, Obamacare or homeland security.  Thats what cost them the election....the counties in swing states that switched from Blue to Red.  As the guy in the Eire Pub said....."people are sick and tired of being talked down to". (I was actually in there for a couple of pints just last month)





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 14, 2016, 11:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 11:08:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2016, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 09:40:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2016, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

You talk to them. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you ridicule them from a position where you believe they are too stupid to be taken seriously. You have to show them there is another way to protect them than banning all muslims, or building walls.

It's a very silly error to just discount the worries because you can't be bothered to try and talk to them. Show them the alternative view. Show them why they have nothing to fear. Obviously that wasn't done well enough.
AZ, Nazis have to be destroyed. That is the lesson of WW2.

And agan.....that is the issue.....if you disagree with the elite of the Democratic Party you are NOT a Nazi.

If you guys keep it up, youre going to get completely wiped out in the mid terms in 2 years time
The alt-right and even the not so alt-right are quite adept at throwing the Nazi slurs around, just see their constant references to feminists as "feminazis".

"Fascist liberals" is another one they love to throw around.

Yet when quite legitimate comparisons are made between how Donald Trump ran his campaign and what happened in the 1930s, you know, the vilification of an entire religion, the rhetoric about rounding up 11 million people and expelling them, the "lock her up" chants, the "you're going to jail" rhetoric and all that, it's somehow illegitimate.

Go figure.

Again youre missing the point...the Democrats are unjustly applying these labels to their own supporters whenever they have the audacity to disagree with the elites on issues such as transgender bathrooms, Obamacare or homeland security.  Thats what cost them the election....the counties in swing states that switched from Blue to Red.  As the guy in the Eire Pub said....."people are sick and tired of being talked down to". (I was actually in there for a couple of pints just last month)
I'm not missing the point.

Right-wingers have been talking down to people for generations.

Donald Trump has talked down to women, Mexicans, Muslims, blacks, disabled people, even his own voters.

It would be interesting to see what those on the right who say "people are being talked down to" would have said about people who spoke out against the fascist movements of the 1930s.

I guess they would have classed them as politically correct liberal elites too.

It'll be interesting to see how long those who parrot the anti-political correctness nonsense can keep up the facade this time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2016, 11:24:59 PM
Disagree with me all you want.....if the Democrats continue to unjustly demonize their own supporters they will continue to lose elections....which is just fine by me

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/stop-shaming-trump-supporters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 15, 2016, 12:12:22 AM
A lot of people calling for Keith Ellison to be new chair of the dnc if I were Jewish in America I would be more worried about him than bannon . White supremacists have a vote the same as anyone else and who do u think they would vote for but to think the country is full of nazis is miles off .a few nuts here and there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 15, 2016, 12:35:55 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 15, 2016, 12:12:22 AM
A lot of people calling for Keith Ellison to be new chair of the dnc if I were Jewish in America I would be more worried about him than bannon . White supremacists have a vote the same as anyone else and who do u think they would vote for but to think the country is full of nazis is miles off .a few nuts here and there.
What's the old Edmund Burke quote?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Ah, the old tactic of deliberately confusing criticising the Israeli government with anti-semitism.

Real anti-semitism is the type of abuse journalist Peter Beinart has been receiving and the type of shit Steve Bannon did at Breitbart. I've no time politically for Bill Kristol but labelling him as a "Renegade Jew", well I know what anti-semitism is when I see it.

Bannon's ex-wife has testified in court that Bannon has "said he doesn't like Jews" and didn't want his children to go to school with Jews.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2016, 12:59:11 AM
68 % of Jews voted for Hillary.....do you think he gives a $hit if they're offended by Bannon

Tighten your seat belts my friends
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:13:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 15, 2016, 12:12:22 AM
A lot of people calling for Keith Ellison to be new chair of the dnc if I were Jewish in America I would be more worried about him than bannon . White supremacists have a vote the same as anyone else and who do u think they would vote for but to think the country is full of nazis is miles off .a few nuts here and there.

You're in good company Whitey.  :D

As for the lads wondering who Trump declares war on...

My money is on Pakistan. I wonder how many would die in that conflict?

Thank you for your service.... :'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 15, 2016, 01:42:26 AM
https://twitter.com/AP/status/798332268884488192?lang=en

BREAKING: AP source: Rudy Giuliani the favorite to be Trump's secretary of state.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:57:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 15, 2016, 01:42:26 AM
https://twitter.com/AP/status/798332268884488192?lang=en

BREAKING: AP source: Rudy Giuliani the favorite to be Trump's secretary of state.

;D ;D ;D

Wow!

I'd expect incarcerations to go through the roof.

a) watch 13th on Netflix;
b) All hail the Trump;
c) All of my opinions and political leanings can now be derived from b);
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 15, 2016, 02:48:18 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:57:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 15, 2016, 01:42:26 AM
https://twitter.com/AP/status/798332268884488192?lang=en

BREAKING: AP source: Rudy Giuliani the favorite to be Trump's secretary of state.

;D ;D ;D

Wow!

I'd expect incarcerations to go through the roof.

a) watch 13th on Netflix;
b) All hail the Trump;
c) All of my opinions and political leanings can now be derived from b);

Secretary of State is the US Foreign minister.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 03:38:16 AM
Quote from: dec on November 15, 2016, 02:48:18 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:57:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 15, 2016, 01:42:26 AM
https://twitter.com/AP/status/798332268884488192?lang=en

BREAKING: AP source: Rudy Giuliani the favorite to be Trump's secretary of state.

;D ;D ;D

Wow!

I'd expect incarcerations to go through the roof.

a) watch 13th on Netflix;
b) All hail the Trump;
c) All of my opinions and political leanings can now be derived from b);

Secretary of State is the US Foreign minister.

Exactly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 07:04:17 AM
Newt Gingrich said Bannon can't be anti semitic because he worked in Hollywood. That was especially for the evangelicals.

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/11/13/the-rise-of-the-anti-media-and-anti-truth-bubbles.cnn

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/the-radical-anti-conservatism-of-stephen-bannon/496796/

Chemi Shalev ‏@ChemiShalev  4 h


Now it's Jews vs Jews over Bannon: ZOA says ADL should apologize for "Orwellian" smear of Bannon as anti-Semite
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 15, 2016, 07:10:25 AM
The welcome to Trumpland theme continues

The casual racism that has come to define modern-day conservatism shows no signs of abating. A West Virginia official, Clay County Development Corporation Director Pamela Taylor, just shared a racist message about First Lady Michelle Obama.

"It will be refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady in the White House. I'm tired of seeing an ape in heels" she wrote on Facebook in a now-deleted message that has been replaced with a cursory and insincere apology, according to WSAZ News.
An online petition has now racked up over 2,000 signatures demanding that both women be fired, prompting Taylor to "file a lawsuit against individual(s) who have slandered her" as she complains that there is now a "hate crime against me."

This is the ultimate irony of the anti-"political correctness" crusader – they say something horrendously racist and then feel victimized when they have to face consequences for their actions. Despite what the electoral college victory of Donald Trump might say, America is not a nation where this kind of talk is acceptable, and raising hell over even small incidents like this are critical in the fight against the normalization of racism and bigotry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 07:43:27 AM

Quote from: Declan on November 15, 2016, 07:10:25 AM
The welcome to Trumpland theme continues

The casual racism that has come to define modern-day conservatism shows no signs of abating. A West Virginia official, Clay County Development Corporation Director Pamela Taylor, just shared a racist message about First Lady Michelle Obama.

"It will be refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady in the White House. I'm tired of seeing an ape in heels" she wrote on Facebook in a now-deleted message that has been replaced with a cursory and insincere apology, according to WSAZ News.
An online petition has now racked up over 2,000 signatures demanding that both women be fired, prompting Taylor to "file a lawsuit against individual(s) who have slandered her" as she complains that there is now a "hate crime against me."

This is the ultimate irony of the anti-"political correctness" crusader – they say something horrendously racist and then feel victimized when they have to face consequences for their actions. Despite what the electoral college victory of Donald Trump might say, America is not a nation where this kind of talk is acceptable, and raising hell over even small incidents like this are critical in the fight against the normalization of racism and bigotry.

There is a  reason why regular politicians don't tend to use hatred and antisemitism . Because you can't put it back in the box.

Trump will be brought down by the weight of his contradictions. You cannot simultaneously serve the people, the Jew haters, the ultra rich and the climate deniers. There is just  too much bullshit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 08:06:30 AM
In Milwaukee turnout was 41000 down on 2012. Declines were concentrated in areas with ID issues
Trump won Wisconsin by 27000 votes
https://twitter.com/ericuman/status/797959337264160772

Priebus and Ryan are from Wisconsin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 15, 2016, 08:27:34 AM
QuoteThere is a  reason why regular politicians don't tend to use hatred and antisemitism . Because you can't put it back in the box.

Trump will be brought down by the weight of his contradictions. You cannot simultaneously serve the people, the Jew haters, the ultra rich and the climate deniers. There is just  too much bullshit

Indeed it seems like Pandora's box is well and truly open - Here's The Temple Beth Shalom Cemetery in Orange County, New York..

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxP37wrUoAA4ecT.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 08:56:03 AM
Get smart ‏@soldierDtruth  14 nov.

Houston, TX
@ericuman @alplicable a government illegitimately elected will not stand

Tonight @SeanHannity, who's not a journalist, agreed that "CNN, NYT, WaPo" and others "should not receive WH press credentials."

Frumiosa ‏@djkomisar  5 h


This time last week is the last time I would go to bed in a world that more or less made sense. I should have appreciated it more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 09:06:08 AM
The idea that the Irish Americans are just like the people  back home is taking a lot of water.
Hannity, Pence, Bannon and Kellyanne Conway are all from the tribe and all part of the coup
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 15, 2016, 09:17:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 03:01:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2016, 12:40:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Dems didnt listen to their constituents, youre not listening to them, the DNC didnt listen to them, J70 isnt listening to them......if Trump does well, these people may be permanently lost to the Democratic Party

What am I not listening to?

The whole point of this subject is WHAT exactly IS their problem or complaint?

I already laid out what their grievances were, but you decided to go off on another tangent.....

And they were the most part bullshit, which is why I went off on the tangent of whether we should listen to illegitimate grievances.

Just because a demagogue was able to exploit them to an election win doesn't lend them credence.

The Irish American guy in the Eire pub said:

"Do you know why he'll win?". "Because people are tired of being talked down to."

http://www.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

So questioning their complaints is talking down to them?

Accusing them of being sexist, rascist homophobic or Islamophibic without any justification is!

So we are going around in circles!

Nothing you've posted has justified supporting Trump on that basis.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-donald-trump-voters-20161113-story.html

You keep posting these articles quoting people on WHY they voted for Trump. They do not examine the accuracy of their reasons or complaints though. Which is what I'm on about.

Is there any data showing that illegal immigrants are driving up house prices or making up a majority of welfare recipients?

The woman who is pissed off because Obama lit up the White House in rainbow colours to celebrate full equality for gays? Are we supposed to roll back gay rights to make her and people like her feel better?

The people who think Trump is going bring back manufacturing jobs - is there any data to back up their expectations?

The ones who lament the increasing diversity - are they right?

Why did the people reject the liberals?

Because their champion was Hillary Clinton, at what point are you liberals going to own the fact that the country rejected the failed policies of the Obama administration, the fact that Clinton was seen by Liberals and Democrats alike as a lying, odious establishment figurehead. The current President failed miserably to bring the country, so did the leaders of the Republican party, I do not see any way Trump will work with Democrats and come to the center, I am hoping he is a one term President, he is going to be 74 if he ran again but I am going to reserve judgment until he is actually empowered to make change.

I am hoping he has a few good democrats in his cabinet because if ever a President needed diversity as part of his inner circle Trump will.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 15, 2016, 09:23:05 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 15, 2016, 07:10:25 AM
The welcome to Trumpland theme continues

The casual racism that has come to define modern-day conservatism shows no signs of abating. A West Virginia official, Clay County Development Corporation Director Pamela Taylor, just shared a racist message about First Lady Michelle Obama.

"It will be refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady in the White House. I'm tired of seeing an ape in heels" she wrote on Facebook in a now-deleted message that has been replaced with a cursory and insincere apology, according to WSAZ News.
An online petition has now racked up over 2,000 signatures demanding that both women be fired, prompting Taylor to "file a lawsuit against individual(s) who have slandered her" as she complains that there is now a "hate crime against me."

This is the ultimate irony of the anti-"political correctness" crusader – they say something horrendously racist and then feel victimized when they have to face consequences for their actions. Despite what the electoral college victory of Donald Trump might say, America is not a nation where this kind of talk is acceptable, and raising hell over even small incidents like this are critical in the fight against the normalization of racism and bigotry.

All I can say is WOW!

That bitch Taylor should be fired, sued and see the inside of a jail cell for a while.

Michelle Obama has been a tremendous first lady and I hope she continues with her causes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 09:28:42 AM
Quote from: stew on November 15, 2016, 09:23:05 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 15, 2016, 07:10:25 AM
The welcome to Trumpland theme continues

The casual racism that has come to define modern-day conservatism shows no signs of abating. A West Virginia official, Clay County Development Corporation Director Pamela Taylor, just shared a racist message about First Lady Michelle Obama.

"It will be refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady in the White House. I'm tired of seeing an ape in heels" she wrote on Facebook in a now-deleted message that has been replaced with a cursory and insincere apology, according to WSAZ News.
An online petition has now racked up over 2,000 signatures demanding that both women be fired, prompting Taylor to "file a lawsuit against individual(s) who have slandered her" as she complains that there is now a "hate crime against me."

This is the ultimate irony of the anti-"political correctness" crusader – they say something horrendously racist and then feel victimized when they have to face consequences for their actions. Despite what the electoral college victory of Donald Trump might say, America is not a nation where this kind of talk is acceptable, and raising hell over even small incidents like this are critical in the fight against the normalization of racism and bigotry.

All I can say is WOW!

That bitch Taylor should be fired, sued and see the inside of a jail cell for a while.

Michelle Obama has been a tremendous first lady and I hope she continues with her causes.

I hope we see her in 2020... she wipes the floor with anybody!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 15, 2016, 09:34:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 14, 2016, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 14, 2016, 03:03:15 PM
I think what he's saying is these concerns are concerns that are honestly held. And instead of telling them they are stupid concerns, the democrats should have tried to address them. Telling them they are redneck hicks didn't work out so well.

How do you "address" the woman who doesn't like gay marriage or the White House celebration of it?
You tell her to get a life and quit with the hate!

How do you address the concerns about illegal immigrants overwhelming the country's social services?
You tell them that Illegal immigrants are people too and that as human beings they deserve to be aided medically.

How do you address the people who think Obama is a foreign born Muslim or that the BLS is making up job statistics?
You tell them it us a non issue and they are wrong and to move along.

How do you address the Jade Helm people or those who think the Confederate flag is a righteous symbol or climate change is a hoax?
You cant, they are too thick and ignorant to give a shit about what you are telling them.

How do you do all that when have the other party and their nominee telling them their fears are well founded and doing all they can to foment and exploit them?

Their fears are well founded in that the democrats have had an incredibly bad eight years and the country is in decline, by the way, both parties sowed fear, nit just the GOP.

The "war on Christmas" will be starting in a week or two. What's the appropriate response to that?

Simple, you tell them you understand political correctness is rife under Obama and that will change under Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 09:42:43 AM
http://www.breitbart.com/news/trump-considering-woman-openly-gay-man-for-leadership-posts/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 11:16:46 AM
And Trump's denials notwithstanding, Bannon's anti-immigrant, anti-minority and anti-Jewish profile was repeatedly reflected in the campaign's own rhetoric and in its refusal to completely disown the neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan and other racist groups that came out in support of Trump. So even if Trump intends to play both sides of the fence, Bannon is firmly ensconced in at least one of them. This is what the American people elected, and this is what America and the rest of the world will have to live with over the next four years. God help us all.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/.premium-1.753185
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2016, 11:29:01 AM
Give it up on the kkk outrage....that's just a bunch of nonsense

All your doing is distracting and diluting attention away from real issues
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 11:33:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 11:29:01 AM
Give it up on the kkk outrage....that's just a bunch of nonsense

Not if you are Jewish, Whitey
If you read what Jews are writing about now, this is not 2000.

It's not small government, lower taxes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 11:29:01 AM
Give it up on the kkk outrage....that's just a bunch of nonsense

All your doing is distracting and diluting attention away from real issues

Why?? Hate crime already up across America due to the KKK's poster boy!! How is not relevant?!

Here's a fact that's also missing from the Election review... yes Democrats called Trump Supporters racists/homophobes/Nazi's/misogynists and that is probably the reason they lost the vote.

It doesn't make them wrong!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 11:42:15 AM
It is chaos in the US. And the UK.
Mad to see such pillars of stability melt into nonsense .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2016, 12:00:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 11:29:01 AM
Give it up on the kkk outrage....that's just a bunch of nonsense

All your doing is distracting and diluting attention away from real issues

Why?? Hate crime already up across America due to the KKK's poster boy!! How is not relevant?!

Here's a fact that's also missing from the Election review... yes Democrats called Trump Supporters racists/homophobes/Nazi's/misogynists and that is probably the reason they lost the vote.

It doesn't make them wrong!!!

Again your just reinforcing my point

ANYONE who disagrees with them on anything is referred to as  a Nazi, Homophobe, Islamophobe....even minor waivers from the official position leads to such categorizations. 

Keep it up and the Republicans will be in power for a very very long time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 12:00:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 11:29:01 AM
Give it up on the kkk outrage....that's just a bunch of nonsense

All your doing is distracting and diluting attention away from real issues

Why?? Hate crime already up across America due to the KKK's poster boy!! How is not relevant?!

Here's a fact that's also missing from the Election review... yes Democrats called Trump Supporters racists/homophobes/Nazi's/misogynists and that is probably the reason they lost the vote.

It doesn't make them wrong!!!

Again your just reinforcing my point

ANYONE who disagrees with them on anything is referred to as  a Nazi, Homophobe, Islamophobe....even minor waivers from the official position leads to such categorizations. 

Keep it up and the Republicans will be in power for a very very long time

I don't think so... the demographics of the US are changing and if the Democrats stay on the right side of this without pandering to the right wing nuts then all will be good again hopefully sooner rather than later!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 12:48:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 12:00:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 11:29:01 AM
Give it up on the kkk outrage....that's just a bunch of nonsense

All your doing is distracting and diluting attention away from real issues

Why?? Hate crime already up across America due to the KKK's poster boy!! How is not relevant?!

Here's a fact that's also missing from the Election review... yes Democrats called Trump Supporters racists/homophobes/Nazi's/misogynists and that is probably the reason they lost the vote.

It doesn't make them wrong!!!

Again your just reinforcing my point

ANYONE who disagrees with them on anything is referred to as  a Nazi, Homophobe, Islamophobe....even minor waivers from the official position leads to such categorizations. 

Keep it up and the Republicans will be in power for a very very long time

Between yourself, Stew and the others here alone, Hillary was called a whore, a lesbian, a fraud and a criminal.

Why so sensitive now?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:04:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 12:48:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 12:00:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 11:29:01 AM
Give it up on the kkk outrage....that's just a bunch of nonsense

All your doing is distracting and diluting attention away from real issues

Why?? Hate crime already up across America due to the KKK's poster boy!! How is not relevant?!

Here's a fact that's also missing from the Election review... yes Democrats called Trump Supporters racists/homophobes/Nazi's/misogynists and that is probably the reason they lost the vote.

It doesn't make them wrong!!!

Again your just reinforcing my point

ANYONE who disagrees with them on anything is referred to as  a Nazi, Homophobe, Islamophobe....even minor waivers from the official position leads to such categorizations. 

Keep it up and the Republicans will be in power for a very very long time

Between yourself, Stew and the others here alone, Hillary was called a whore, a lesbian, a fraud and a criminal.

Why so sensitive now?

The point you're missing (yet again) is that the Democrats use derogatory labels ON THEIR OWN SUPPORTERS  who don't agree with them on every topic.  That's why so many flipped to Trump...."were sick and tired of being talked down to".  Long may it continue
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 15, 2016, 01:44:43 PM
John Oliver in top form, special on the election

http://74.208.110.179/forum/topic.asp?t=55058&page=lu#newunreadpost (http://74.208.110.179/forum/topic.asp?t=55058&page=lu#newunreadpost)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 15, 2016, 02:09:44 PM
I don't always agree with Monbiot but he does give food for thought

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/14/neoliberalsim-donald-trump-george-monbiot?CMP=share_btn_tw (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/14/neoliberalsim-donald-trump-george-monbiot?CMP=share_btn_tw)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 15, 2016, 01:44:43 PM
John Oliver in top form, special on the election

http://74.208.110.179/forum/topic.asp?t=55058&page=lu#newunreadpost (http://74.208.110.179/forum/topic.asp?t=55058&page=lu#newunreadpost)

GO f**k YOURSELF 2016!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 15, 2016, 02:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

You watch Fox much?

You seem to fixate on them, why is that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: stew on November 15, 2016, 02:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

You watch Fox much?

You seem to fixate on them, why is that?

It's hard not to video clips of their nonsense appear on social media regularly... then Hannity!!!

Question of the Day: Do you think the press owes @realdonaldtrump an apology? #Hannity

Holy f**k no!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:31:13 PM
Quote from: stew on November 15, 2016, 02:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

You watch Fox much?

You seem to fixate on them, why is that?

I'd rather read the fascist (and anti-Irish) Daily Mail all day, than watch the even worse Fox. But Fox has succeeded in its task. The US media is now entirely distrusted and every crackpot opinion demands equal treatment. Unless of course you are a woman, or black, or hispanic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 15, 2016, 02:42:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:31:13 PM
Quote from: stew on November 15, 2016, 02:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

You watch Fox much?

You seem to fixate on them, why is that?

I'd rather read the fascist (and anti-Irish) Daily Mail all day, than watch the even worse Fox. But Fox has succeeded in its task. The US media is now entirely distrusted and every crackpot opinion demands equal treatment. Unless of course you are a woman, or black, or hispanic.

If there's anything good to come out of this US election then its that televised debates, polls and celebrity endorsements are a load of pish and don't matter one iota to the voting masses.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 15, 2016, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 11:42:15 AM
It is chaos in the US. And the UK.
Mad to see such pillars of stability melt into nonsense .
what chaos are u on about I don't see any . Twitter is in chaos .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 02:56:43 PM
The will of the people isnt necessarily rational.   Especially if they have been systematically lied to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 03:04:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 15, 2016, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 11:42:15 AM
It is chaos in the US. And the UK.
Mad to see such pillars of stability melt into nonsense .
what chaos are u on about I don't see any . Twitter is in chaos .
Hatred, Katie Hopkins, Breitbart, attacks on Poles, Farage promising money for NHS then lying about it, daily mail attacks on judiciary, NYT journos getting sent nazi insults, Stock market thinking inflation is coming, Trump promising a wall then getting elected, John Bolton, Gingrich saying Bannon is not an anti-Semite cos he worked in Hollywood, parents unsure what to tell kids, arms sales up, Israeli settlers thinking Trump will hasten arrival of the Messiah, loss of Euro clearing will cost 70000 jobs, 20% fall in sterling, marmite, Ireland win in Vienna srl
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 03:22:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 03:04:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 15, 2016, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 11:42:15 AM
It is chaos in the US. And the UK.
Mad to see such pillars of stability melt into nonsense .
what chaos are u on about I don't see any . Twitter is in chaos .
Hatred, Katie Hopkins, Breitbart, attacks on Poles, Farage promising money for NHS then lying about it, daily mail attacks on judiciary, NYT journos getting sent nazi insults, Stock market thinking inflation is coming, Trump promising a wall then getting elected, John Bolton, Gingrich saying Bannon is not an anti-Semite cos he worked in Hollywood, parents unsure what to tell kids, arms sales up, Israeli settlers thinking Trump will hasten arrival of the Messiah, loss of Euro clearing will cost 70000 jobs, 20% fall in sterling, marmite, Ireland win in Vienna srl

In fairness I wouldn't blame Farage for that one... he's slimey f**ker who will say anything but he wasn't/isn't part of the Government so people should have known he couldn't make promises like that with any kind of certainty.

Gove and f**king Boris on the other hand...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter

Wikileaks rigged the election because the Russians gave them emails from only one side. You can be absolutely sure they have all of the Trump campaigns emails too. But the Russians wanted him to win, because they obviously have some sort leverage over him. How scary is that? But who cares, let's keep bashing Hillary.

I know it is difficult to change the habit of a lifetime, but the GOP's 30 years of bashing Hilary is over. She doesn't matter anymore. You won. And it is time you woke up to your new reality.

Fox News it is from now on. Lies, abuse, insults and everything else you voted for, is your new reality. It is what the people voted for.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 15, 2016, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 12:00:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 11:29:01 AM
Give it up on the kkk outrage....that's just a bunch of nonsense

All your doing is distracting and diluting attention away from real issues

Why?? Hate crime already up across America due to the KKK's poster boy!! How is not relevant?!

Here's a fact that's also missing from the Election review... yes Democrats called Trump Supporters racists/homophobes/Nazi's/misogynists and that is probably the reason they lost the vote.

It doesn't make them wrong!!!

Again your just reinforcing my point

ANYONE who disagrees with them on anything is referred to as  a Nazi, Homophobe, Islamophobe....even minor waivers from the official position leads to such categorizations. 

Keep it up and the Republicans will be in power for a very very long time
Your point is that everybody else should adopt to absurdity.

That racism, anti-semitism, xenophobia and misogyny should become the new normal.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter

Wikileaks rigged the election because the Russians gave them emails from only one side. You can be absolutely sure they have all of the Trump campaigns emails too. But the Russians wanted him to win, because they obviously have some sort leverage over him. How scary is that? But who cares, let's keep bashing Hillary.

I know it is difficult to change the habit of a lifetime, but the GOP's 30 years of bashing Hilary is over. She doesn't matter anymore. You won. And it is time you woke up to your new reality.

Fox News it is from now on. Lies, abuse, insults and everything else you voted for, is your new reality. It is what the people voted for.
Muppet elections are complicated. It wasn't just one thing  . And it was very close.
Matches aren't won on one play.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter

Wikileaks rigged the election because the Russians gave them emails from only one side. You can be absolutely sure they have all of the Trump campaigns emails too. But the Russians wanted him to win, because they obviously have some sort leverage over him. How scary is that? But who cares, let's keep bashing Hillary.

I know it is difficult to change the habit of a lifetime, but the GOP's 30 years of bashing Hilary is over. She doesn't matter anymore. You won. And it is time you woke up to your new reality.

Fox News it is from now on. Lies, abuse, insults and everything else you voted for, is your new reality. It is what the people voted for.
Muppet elections are complicated. It wasn't just one thing  . And it was very close.
Matches aren't won on one play.

Completely irrelevant now. Trump won and we are now about to enter the Trump era.

Nothing else matters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2016, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter

Wikileaks rigged the election because the Russians gave them emails from only one side. You can be absolutely sure they have all of the Trump campaigns emails too. But the Russians wanted him to win, because they obviously have some sort leverage over him. How scary is that? But who cares, let's keep bashing Hillary.

I know it is difficult to change the habit of a lifetime, but the GOP's 30 years of bashing Hilary is over. She doesn't matter anymore. You won. And it is time you woke up to your new reality.

Fox News it is from now on. Lies, abuse, insults and everything else you voted for, is your new reality. It is what the people voted for.
[/quote




You are sadly mistaken.....they're going to drive a stake through her heart to make sure she and the Clinton Foundation (aka Clinton Crime Syndicate) are well and truly fvcked and cannot rig
Elections in the future
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:45:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter

Wikileaks rigged the election because the Russians gave them emails from only one side. You can be absolutely sure they have all of the Trump campaigns emails too. But the Russians wanted him to win, because they obviously have some sort leverage over him. How scary is that? But who cares, let's keep bashing Hillary.

I know it is difficult to change the habit of a lifetime, but the GOP's 30 years of bashing Hilary is over. She doesn't matter anymore. You won. And it is time you woke up to your new reality.

Fox News it is from now on. Lies, abuse, insults and everything else you voted for, is your new reality. It is what the people voted for.
[/quote
You are sadly mistaken.....they're going to drive a stake through her heart to make sure she and the Clinton Foundation (aka Clinton Crime Syndicate) are well and truly fvcked and cannot rig
Elections in the future

You've just had your last real election.  :D

See Putin's guide to Democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2016, 05:01:11 PM
I don't disagree

Fvcking Democrats and their pied piper candidates. Main stream media giving Trump upwards of $3B in free airtime-cvnts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:03:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 05:01:11 PM
I don't disagree

Fvcking Democrats and their pied piper candidates. Main stream media giving Trump upwards of $3B in free airtime-cvnts

The Democrats are dead. You killed them. But you can't keep blaming them for the coming horror.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2016, 05:16:13 PM
Ah lads if you didn't laugh you'd cry!!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxUZoG1XEAAvBcd.jpg)

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/306045-carson-turned-down-offer-to-serve-in-trump-administration-report

What would he have done if he'd won the Primary and election??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:03:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 05:01:11 PM
I don't disagree

Fvcking Democrats and their pied piper candidates. Main stream media giving Trump upwards of $3B in free airtime-cvnts

The Democrats are dead. You killed them. But you can't keep blaming them for the coming horror.
They are not dead. They have to reform. 
The horror is not inevitable.
There is still everything to fight for
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 05:24:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter

Wikileaks rigged the election because the Russians gave them emails from only one side. You can be absolutely sure they have all of the Trump campaigns emails too. But the Russians wanted him to win, because they obviously have some sort leverage over him. How scary is that? But who cares, let's keep bashing Hillary.

I know it is difficult to change the habit of a lifetime, but the GOP's 30 years of bashing Hilary is over. She doesn't matter anymore. You won. And it is time you woke up to your new reality.

Fox News it is from now on. Lies, abuse, insults and everything else you voted for, is your new reality. It is what the people voted for.
Muppet elections are complicated. It wasn't just one thing  . And it was very close.
Matches aren't won on one play.

Completely irrelevant now. Trump won and we are now about to enter the Trump era.

Nothing else matters.
You can take the man out of Mayo but you can't take the fatalism out of the man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 05:24:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
Completely irrelevant now. Trump won and we are now about to enter the Trump era.

Nothing else matters.
You can take the man out of Mayo but you can't take the fatalism out of the man.

You refer to history as much as I do.

We both know how this goes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 15, 2016, 05:31:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:03:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 05:01:11 PM
I don't disagree

Fvcking Democrats and their pied piper candidates. Main stream media giving Trump upwards of $3B in free airtime-cvnts

The Democrats are dead. You killed them. But you can't keep blaming them for the coming horror.
They are not dead. They have to reform. 
The horror is not inevitable.
There is still everything to fight for

Someone said Fianna Fail were dead a few years back. 4 years is a long time in peoples minds.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:32:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 15, 2016, 05:31:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:03:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 05:01:11 PM
I don't disagree

Fvcking Democrats and their pied piper candidates. Main stream media giving Trump upwards of $3B in free airtime-cvnts

The Democrats are dead. You killed them. But you can't keep blaming them for the coming horror.
They are not dead. They have to reform. 
The horror is not inevitable.
There is still everything to fight for

Someone said Fianna Fail were dead a few years back. 4 years is a long time in peoples minds.

Fianna Fáíl weren't replaced by Putin's man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 15, 2016, 05:34:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter

Wikileaks rigged the election because the Russians gave them emails from only one side. You can be absolutely sure they have all of the Trump campaigns emails too. But the Russians wanted him to win, because they obviously have some sort leverage over him. How scary is that? But who cares, let's keep bashing Hillary.

I know it is difficult to change the habit of a lifetime, but the GOP's 30 years of bashing Hilary is over. She doesn't matter anymore. You won. And it is time you woke up to your new reality.

Fox News it is from now on. Lies, abuse, insults and everything else you voted for, is your new reality. It is what the people voted for.

No one wins Muppet, absolutely no one wins in this scenario, the liberals had a shitty candidate as did the republicans, they managed to have a Democrat reach the white house representing them the stupid f**kers!

My fervent hope is that maybe after four years of insanity and unpredictability the grown ups in the room will wake the f**k up and realise that they absolutely have to come to the center and work with each other, that is probably the best we can hope for because one party has total control, and that is a bad thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 05:34:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 05:24:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
Completely irrelevant now. Trump won and we are now about to enter the Trump era.

Nothing else matters.
You can take the man out of Mayo but you can't take the fatalism out of the man.

You refer to history as much as I do.

We both know how this goes.
2 things are different this time around

1. Popular money in pensions
2 links via social media

People will have to fight. Economists will have to figure out a new system. But we are not going back to Auschwitz. 

We can take our money out of the financial system. We have options.
Nazism was bullshit. Trump is bullshit. Brexit is bullshit.

One of the Rossies said a while ago there are no decent jobs for young people in Roscommon. There could be .
€80 bn in pension fund money doing nothing
Ní fhágfar faoin tiorán.
Imagination


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 15, 2016, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 05:24:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter

Wikileaks rigged the election because the Russians gave them emails from only one side. You can be absolutely sure they have all of the Trump campaigns emails too. But the Russians wanted him to win, because they obviously have some sort leverage over him. How scary is that? But who cares, let's keep bashing Hillary.

I know it is difficult to change the habit of a lifetime, but the GOP's 30 years of bashing Hilary is over. She doesn't matter anymore. You won. And it is time you woke up to your new reality.

Fox News it is from now on. Lies, abuse, insults and everything else you voted for, is your new reality. It is what the people voted for.
Muppet elections are complicated. It wasn't just one thing  . And it was very close.
Matches aren't won on one play.

Completely irrelevant now. Trump won and we are now about to enter the Trump era.

Nothing else matters.
You can take the man out of Mayo but you can't take the fatalism out of the man.

This must apply to the Galweigans also.  I've lost count of the number of times you've signed off a post with a

"XXXX is fucked/dead/finished/gone/over/"*

*delete as appropriate for uber-dramatism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:53:30 PM
(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/104E/production/_92447140_wsaz2.jpg)

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967)

The local Mayor responded: 'Just made my day Pam'

(http://i2.wp.com/thedailyhaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Clay-County-West-Virginia-Mayor-Beverly-Whaling-and-County-Director-Pamela-Taylor-under-fire-for-racial-slurs-towards-Michelle-Obama.png?fit=596%2C321)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 15, 2016, 05:57:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:53:30 PM
(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/104E/production/_92447140_wsaz2.jpg)

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967)

The local Mayor responded: 'Just made my day Pam'

(http://i2.wp.com/thedailyhaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Clay-County-West-Virginia-Mayor-Beverly-Whaling-and-County-Director-Pamela-Taylor-under-fire-for-racial-slurs-towards-Michelle-Obama.png?fit=596%2C321)

If she's not trailed through some sort of judicial process for that then you may just be right.  The place is f**ked!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2016, 05:57:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:53:30 PM
(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/104E/production/_92447140_wsaz2.jpg)

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967)

The local Mayor responded: 'Just made my day Pam'

(http://i2.wp.com/thedailyhaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Clay-County-West-Virginia-Mayor-Beverly-Whaling-and-County-Director-Pamela-Taylor-under-fire-for-racial-slurs-towards-Michelle-Obama.png?fit=596%2C321)

If she's not trailed through some sort of judicial process for that then you may just be right.  The place is f**ked!

She has been fired, but claims she is suing everyone who called her a racist for slander.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 06:08:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2016, 05:57:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:53:30 PM
(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/104E/production/_92447140_wsaz2.jpg)

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967)

The local Mayor responded: 'Just made my day Pam'

(http://i2.wp.com/thedailyhaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Clay-County-West-Virginia-Mayor-Beverly-Whaling-and-County-Director-Pamela-Taylor-under-fire-for-racial-slurs-towards-Michelle-Obama.png?fit=596%2C321)

If she's not trailed through some sort of judicial process for that then you may just be right.  The place is f**ked!

She has been fired, but claims she is suing everyone who called her a racist for slander.
New whiney bigotry
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 15, 2016, 06:17:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2016, 05:57:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 05:53:30 PM
(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/104E/production/_92447140_wsaz2.jpg)

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967)

The local Mayor responded: 'Just made my day Pam'

(http://i2.wp.com/thedailyhaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Clay-County-West-Virginia-Mayor-Beverly-Whaling-and-County-Director-Pamela-Taylor-under-fire-for-racial-slurs-towards-Michelle-Obama.png?fit=596%2C321)

If she's not trailed through some sort of judicial process for that then you may just be right.  The place is f**ked!

She has been fired, but claims she is suing everyone who called her a racist for slander.

Ah yes, the good old hatred of the perennially offended liberals being 'PC'.

But don't ever call a racist a racist, that's offensive to them you know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 08:10:12 PM
David Brooks in the NYT had a very good point

"Populism of the Trump/Le Pen/Brexit variety has always been a warning sign that there is some deeper dysfunction in our economic, social and cultural systems. If you want to take that warning sign and dismiss it as simple bigotry you're never going to understand what's going on and you'll never know how to constructively respond"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2016, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 05:24:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
Bannon is not a conservative. He is a Nazi.Anyone who voted Trump got free Nazi. Watch as they reorder the media.

And that's why I didn't even protest vote for Trump....these people are truly cvnts, but in their view thats what you need to fight the cvnts at CNN and The NY Times

Yes because Fox and Breitbart has got the balance just right.  ::)

We have seen this before, as lots of people have been saying.

The 'elite' in Germany were so paranoid about the Commies that they gave power to the Nazis.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yep....rigging debates is very good for democracy-lol

Rigging debates? You keep saying this as if it mattered. It didn't. The real rigging was done by the Russians (via Wikileaks) and the FBI. But you are OUTRAGED at a story, that Hillary apparently got help in an arena that Trump was totally incompetent in anyway.

Lol...Democrats outraged by Wikileaks "rigging" the election, because Wikileaks released emails showing that Democrats were rigging the election. Irony doesn't get any sweeter

Wikileaks rigged the election because the Russians gave them emails from only one side. You can be absolutely sure they have all of the Trump campaigns emails too. But the Russians wanted him to win, because they obviously have some sort leverage over him. How scary is that? But who cares, let's keep bashing Hillary.

I know it is difficult to change the habit of a lifetime, but the GOP's 30 years of bashing Hilary is over. She doesn't matter anymore. You won. And it is time you woke up to your new reality.

Fox News it is from now on. Lies, abuse, insults and everything else you voted for, is your new reality. It is what the people voted for.
Muppet elections are complicated. It wasn't just one thing  . And it was very close.
Matches aren't won on one play.

Completely irrelevant now. Trump won and we are now about to enter the Trump era.

Nothing else matters.
You can take the man out of Mayo but you can't take the fatalism out of the man.

This must apply to the Galweigans also.  I've lost count of the number of times you've signed off a post with a

"XXXX is fucked/dead/finished/gone/over/"*

*delete as appropriate for uber-dramatism.

Franko maybe it is a big dramatic at times but the economic system is collapsing.
It is very hard to get through Groupthink  as well.

I had a meeting with a company recently and I told them they had a serious problem with the junk bonds on their balance sheet
and the guy laughed and said I was talking nonsense.

I went to a pensions conference in September. all the big asset managers are selling Junk bonds to pension funds.

A lot of things are going to come to an end unless we get change before it blows up 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 09:42:11 PM
Gideon Rachman ‏@gideonrachman  5 h


With Bannon in White House reaching out to Le Pen, Afd etc, the US govt moves from supporting democracy in Europe to actively undermining it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 15, 2016, 11:50:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 08:10:12 PM
David Brooks in the NYT had a very good point

"Populism of the Trump/Le Pen/Brexit variety has always been a warning sign that there is some deeper dysfunction in our economic, social and cultural systems. If you want to take that warning sign and dismiss it as simple bigotry you're never going to understand what's going on and you'll never know how to constructively respond"
Deeper dysfunction in economic, social and cultural systems begets simple bigotry.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2016, 12:00:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 15, 2016, 11:50:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2016, 08:10:12 PM
David Brooks in the NYT had a very good point

"Populism of the Trump/Le Pen/Brexit variety has always been a warning sign that there is some deeper dysfunction in our economic, social and cultural systems. If you want to take that warning sign and dismiss it as simple bigotry you're never going to understand what's going on and you'll never know how to constructively respond"
Deeper dysfunction in economic, social and cultural systems begets simple bigotry.

Let's make bigotry great again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2016, 12:46:47 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-mccain-russia-putin_us_582b4d86e4b01d8a014abd5b (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-mccain-russia-putin_us_582b4d86e4b01d8a014abd5b)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 16, 2016, 01:06:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2016, 12:46:47 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-mccain-russia-putin_us_582b4d86e4b01d8a014abd5b (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-mccain-russia-putin_us_582b4d86e4b01d8a014abd5b)
Trump is amazing, really. He manages to simultaneously embrace both fascism and appeasement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2016, 01:14:37 AM
This is the 'news' outlet edited by Bannon:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/15/hillary-clinton-screaming-obscenities-and-throwing-objects-in-election-night-meltdown/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/15/hillary-clinton-screaming-obscenities-and-throwing-objects-in-election-night-meltdown/)

I can imagine White House press briefings from now on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 16, 2016, 01:37:10 AM
The really scary thing about all this is how Glenn Beck is suddenly coming across as a reasonable liberal, although to say I'm suspicious is an understatement. He's doing it again on CNN now.

It's like years ago in the WWF when a heel suddenly turned face.

I've no freaking idea what's going on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 16, 2016, 01:58:33 AM
One thing came up in conversation today that I hadn't even thought of before

Remember during the election we heard that Trump had all of his support coming from "non college educated white people".

How fvcking condescending can you get.....I know plenty of trades people over here.....electricians, diesel mechanics, HVAC guys .....who spend years at trade schools, learning trades and doing apprenticeships . They are just as smart and equally, if not more informed as many of the smarmy fvcks looking down their noses at them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 02:35:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 16, 2016, 01:06:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2016, 12:46:47 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-mccain-russia-putin_us_582b4d86e4b01d8a014abd5b (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-mccain-russia-putin_us_582b4d86e4b01d8a014abd5b)
Trump is amazing, really. He manages to simultaneously embrace both fascism and appeasement.
I think Caligula was another narcissist with a short attention span.

There are few surviving sources about the reign of Emperor Caligula, although he is described as a noble and moderate ruler during the first six months of his reign. After this, the sources focus upon his cruelty, sadism, extravagance, and sexual perversity, presenting him as an insane tyrant. While the reliability of these sources is questionable, it is known that during his brief reign, Caligula worked to increase the unconstrained personal power of the emperor, as opposed to countervailing powers within the principate. He directed much of his attention to ambitious construction projects and luxurious dwellings for himself, and initiated the construction of two aqueducts in Rome: the Aqua Claudia and the Anio Novus. During his reign, the empire annexed the Kingdom of Mauretania as a province.
In early AD 41, Caligula was assassinated as a result of a conspiracy by officers of the Praetorian Guard, senators, and courtiers. The conspirators' attempt to use the opportunity to restore the Roman Republic was thwarted: on the day of the assassination of Caligula, the Praetorian Guard declared Caligula's uncle, Claudius, the next Roman emperor.

Welcome to St Trumpez

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh2FRFhS7QY

Get fresh, gotta stay fly
Get the jet I gotta stay high
High up like a la la la
Ain't nothin here that my money can't buy
Dolce, Gucci and Louis V
Yacht so big I could live out in the sea
You for real you can't see me
In these Euro frames the whole world change
Mad bitches so much brought
Feel the life when I wanna f**k them all
Get mad brain in my very fast car
Ferrari V12 Marilena on my arm
Ladies can't resist the charm
Haters, kiss the ring of the Don
And we do this all day, welcome to St. Trumpez

The party just started, the party ain't stoppin'
Keep shit poppin', poppin these bottles
Haters keep hatin', fuckin' these models
So much money like we own the lotto
Pull up to a club in a white Murcielago
He don't make dollars, he don't make cents
He don't make you rich, he don't mean shit, shit
We the shit. I mean how much better can it get
Harleys, Maserati, Gallardos, we make too much do'
And we spend it all day, welcome to St. Trumpez


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 16, 2016, 03:50:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 01:58:33 AM
Remember during the election we heard that Trump had all of his support coming from "non college educated white people".

No we didn't hear that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 16, 2016, 07:26:48 AM
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/trump-voters-hiding-in-plain-sight-in-king-county/ (http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/trump-voters-hiding-in-plain-sight-in-king-county/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 07:50:04 AM
The US is about to be ruled by a fruitcake.  It is already clear that there will be nothing for blue collar voters .Trump will either be impeached or assassinated. The GOP is trína chéile.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 07:52:29 AM
Clinton is ahead 2 million on the popular vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 08:08:42 AM
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 08:10:32 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/2016-the-choice-hate-speech-intensifies-since-trump-won-the-election-180840470.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 16, 2016, 08:20:51 AM
Quote from: dec on November 16, 2016, 03:50:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 01:58:33 AM
Remember during the election we heard that Trump had all of his support coming from "non college educated white people".

No we didn't hear that.

Don't be trite, plenty on here made his supporters out to be uneducated dolts, towing the liberal line.

The same gobshites talk about Fox news a lot also, its what they do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 16, 2016, 08:21:59 AM
Thought this was an interesting article;

The Economy's Hidden Illness — One Even Trump Failed to Address

How financial markets no longer support business, and thus, economic growth

By Rana Foroohar

Markets typically react more to economic fundamentals than politics. But these are not typical times, and our economic future is deeply entangled with the political economy.

Donald Trump's presidential victory fundamentally challenges the future of globalization and status quo capitalism. Indeed, the fact that Trump grabbed an unexpected share of minority vote, as well as some college educated women, speaks to the fact that economic anxiety is about more than just income levels. It's about the fact that a large percentage of the population feels that we have a rigged economic system that disproportionately benefits the US and global elite. Nevermind that Trump is one of those elites. He ran as a challenger to Hillary Clinton, the ultimate establishment political figure and sold the electorate on the idea that he was the face of change.

How did we get here? Despite the economic progress made since 2008, our current recovery has been the longest, slowest one of the post World War II era, and the level of inequality is as high as it has been since the Gilded Era. The key reason is something that neither candidate in the 2016 cycle addressed fully – the fact that the financial markets themselves are no longer supporting business, and thus, economic growth.

Why is this? Because the financial industry has, according to a large body of data, grown too large and too far removed from its original mission of investing in new, productive ventures. This illness has a name: academics call it financialization. It's a term for the trend by which Wall Street and its way of thinking have come to reign supreme in America, permeating not just Wall Street but all American business.

It includes the growth in size and scope of finance and financial activity in our economy (which has doubled since the 1970s), to the rise of debt-fueled speculation over productive lending, to the ascendancy of shareholder value as the sole model for corporate governance (and the short term pressure that puts on companies), to the enormous political power of the financial lobby. It's a shift that has even affected our language, our civic life, and our way of relating to one another. We speak about human or social "capital" and securitize everything from education to critical infrastructure to prison terms, a mark of our burgeoning "portfolio society."

This isn't the way it was supposed to be. Market capitalism, as envisioned by Adam Smith, was supposed to funnel our collective savings into productive investment, via the banking system. But today, deep academic research shows that only around 15% of the money flowing from financial institutions actually makes its way into business investment. The rest gets moved around a closed financial loop, via the buying and selling of existing assets, like real estate, stocks, and bonds.

It's a cycle that increases inequality, since the top quarter of the population owns the vast majority of those assets (witness the disconnect between the markets and Main Street, which has fueled much of the populist sentiment in the election cycle).

The financial sector — including everything from banks, to hedge funds to mutual funds to insurance to trading houses — represents around 7% of the economy. Yet it creates only 4% of all US jobs, and takes 25% of all private sector profits. While a healthy financial system is crucial for growth, research by numerous academics as well as institutions like the Bank of International Settlements and the International Monetary Fund shows that when finance gets that big, it starts to suck the economic air out of the room – and in fact, the slower growth effect starts happening when the sector is half the size it is today in the US.

It's crucial that we tackle this issue to ensure not only more sustainable growth, but more stable politics. A recent Harvard survey found that only 19 % of millenials, now the largest voting bloc in the country, consider themselves "capitalists." Ironically, our next president—an investor known for highly leveraged real estate deals — has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of our financialized system.

Yet if the next administration doesn't take serious steps to reconnect the markets to Main Street, we will find ourselves in the same slow growth economy in four years. Only this time, the politics will be even more extreme—and there may be new outsiders to challenge the status quo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 08:57:55 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.
You should patent that last last line, ET
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 09:20:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdLUV0hhYZY
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 16, 2016, 09:28:13 AM
Journalists are helping to create a dangerous consensus

Brexit vote and US election showed media's failure to ask the really difficult questions
Declan Lawn

If the job of investigative journalism is to put new and relevant facts into the public domain, then the American media performed relatively well during the recent presidential campaign, and in some cases, it did brilliantly.

The "hot mic" tapes and Donald Trump's tax returns were, by anyone's standards, excellent scoops and most probably, in any election before this one, they might have ended the hopes of a presidential candidate. But not this time. This time, the facts no longer mattered.

We've heard a lot recently about the concept of a "post-factual society" and there has been a great deal of debate about what that means.

Some say it's a society where facts no longer exist; in fact it's a society where they exist, but don't matter.

In that scenario, serious investigative journalism finds itself in the novel position of making less and less impact.

Until relatively recently, a methodical piece of revelatory investigative journalism could expect to produce two results – outrage on behalf of its readership and audience, and shame on behalf of its target.

Fifteen years ago when I first went to work as a reporter for Panorama, the BBC current affairs and investigative programme, we could count on a general set of moral and ethical assumptions shared across society and work out pretty well how our journalism would play in them.

If you did a story about how a tycoon was treating his minimum-wage workers terribly and you told it with compelling testimony, perhaps with secret filming and supported by documentary evidence, you could pretty much guarantee that when it went out on prime-time television, the audience would be outraged.

Then, almost certainly, the "shame" element would follow, like a necessary bedfellow. We could expect a mea culpa from the tycoon, perhaps a public apology and a declared determination to make things better.

All of that is changing fast. One of the greatest changes I have noticed in journalism is that stories we would consider to be important no longer make the impact we expected.

So why is that? A simple and rather superficial answer – although it contains a lot of truth – is social media. Outrage is in short supply because it is a muscle that has been over-used. The human heart can only summon so much outrage.

If you are checking your Twitter feed 20 times a day, the chances are that on a fairly regular basis you are seeing sights that most humans were, until recently, rarely exposed to. A dead baby in the ruins of Aleppo; a mother holding her child, killed in a chemical attack; a teenager who has been run over by a lorry in a terrorist attack in France.

Most big broadcasters have "ingest editors" – people whose job it is to look at the raw footage sent in from all over the world, and to cut out the horror that cannot be shown on mainstream television.

It's a tough job and people who do it regularly receive breaks from it as well as counselling to help them deal with it.

These days, we're all ingest editors, but without the breaks or the counselling.

In that context, the human capacity for outrage becomes exhausted very quickly.

You cannot be outraged all of the time and so when you hear news of another political scandal or tax-evading business person, the moral and emotional bank is empty.

Take the concept of shame. These days if you're the centre of a big story and you have done wrong, you can be almost guaranteed it will blow over.

An entire industry of crisis management PR consultants has grown up around the task of telling clients to sit tight.

And the brutal truth about shame, both the public and private kind, is that too often it is a factor of expectation; those who think the punishment will be fleeting or non-existent feel it a great deal less.

In today's political climate, would US president Richard Nixon have been impeached? Would he have resigned? I don't believe so.

He might instead simply send out a tweet saying his enemies were out to get him, and God Bless America, and now it's time to move on – and we all would.

So, how have we got here? It starts with the financial crisis of 2008. When the history books are written, the seismic political events of the past year will be traced to that beginning.

Before, during, and after the 2008 crash, serious journalism dropped the ball. Because we knew, didn't we? We knew.

In Belfast, London and Dublin, we knew on some instinctive common-sense level but we subjugated our instincts to the judgments of experts who did not exist. We knew it didn't feel right, that it was unsustainable.

But as journalists we missed it. Or more to the point, we didn't tell it, until it came from the bottom up and could not be ignored – until it had already happened.

The central issue is that journalists buy into narratives just like everybody else and just like everybody else we can be wrong on a collective and massive scale. This is no surprise – we are not supernatural sages.

The problem is that we are getting ever worse at going against the dominant consensus. Fewer and fewer of us are anti-authoritarian enough and difficult enough to go with our gut and challenge the narrative.

These days journalists are not rewarded for being difficult. A culture does not exist in which a journalist can render an alternative narrative without being dismissed as a loonie leftie or alt-right conspiracy theorist.

Thirty years ago journalists questioned dominant narratives all the time – it was what journalists were for.

Today, questioning the consensus is a dangerous game; whether it's the consensus of neoliberalism or military interventionism or whatever – it gets you called a "conspiracy theorist". This is how journalism fails.

As humans we have instincts about things we see around us. Intuition. Common sense. And as journalists, we have a duty to follow these observations wherever they take us, even if it is against the prevailing wisdom.

Yet now, too many of us have had that instinct trained out of us; we stay with the herd, even when there are no real fences us around to hold us in – just our own expectations and those of our peers.

I should point out, if it isn't already obvious, I am entirely guilty of the sin of which I speak. I spent a decade travelling around the UK doing Panorama after Panorama.

The subjects were diverse – welfare cuts, the National Health Service, undercover investigations into criminals, migrant labour exposés – I put a lot of facts out into the world and as far as I know they were all correct.

But the bigger story was the one all around me. It was what I was seeing in towns such as Stoke and Scunthorpe, Merthyr Tydfil and Bradford. It was the despair. The grim, grinding, daily despair in the lives of so many of the people I met.

And yet I had no way to tell it as a story, to sum it all up, to tie it together, even though I felt it instinctively. I never even suggested it. I should have. And then on June 23rd in the vote on EU membership it became a story after all.

So how have we failed? We have failed in America and the UK by narrowing the acceptable boundaries of investigative journalism.

We have failed by allowing a climate of intellectual adventure to wither away from journalism, the one part of society that should support voices who seriously and thoughtfully challenge the dominant narratives that shape our world.

We have allowed ourselves to become a herd of sheep, and the more closely the herd bunches together, the smaller the corner of the field it takes up.

Pretty soon we think this corner of the field is the whole field.

But it isn't – it's just our corner.

So is there a way forward? I think so. First, mainstream newspapers and broadcasters need to fundamentally change the kind of content they commission.

They need to seek out voices on the extremes of right and left instead of allowing new, single-politics media outlets grow up at the fringes.

They should feature these voices and interrogate them, holding them to the standard we all aspire to – of fact-based reason. Bring everyone into the tent. See how they hold up under questioning.

Journalists need to pull off the greatest trick of all – to recognise the limits of their own perceptions and try to exceed them. To see that there might be another narrative and another way of looking at the world.

We need to use journalistic rigour to stress-test the basic assumptions we all live under.

We need to question the consensus because the only thing that is certain is that the consensus nearly always turns out to be wrong. As a journalist, I look forward to it all, now that everything has changed.

In a way, I find these strange, dark and ridiculous times to be exciting. They say that soldiers need wars. Journalists too get stale without a fight. We should get out of the corner of the field and go looking for one.

This is an edited version of a contribution to the Cleraun Media Conference on Investigative Journalism on the Digital Frontier held last weekend in Dublin. Declan Lawn is a reporter with BBC Current Affairs, working mainly for Panorama and BBC Northern Ireland's Spotlight programme.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 10:02:31 AM
The ADL analysed the data 
https://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/2016-the-choice-hate-speech-intensifies-since-trump-won-the-election-180840470.html

Over 12 months there were 2.6 million antisemitic messages on twitter. From 1600 accounts, And 10bn impressions. This is Mr Bannon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Billys Boots on November 16, 2016, 10:39:21 AM
Thanks for that Declan, good read. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2016, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 01:58:33 AM
One thing came up in conversation today that I hadn't even thought of before

Remember during the election we heard that Trump had all of his support coming from "non college educated white people".

How fvcking condescending can you get.....I know plenty of trades people over here.....electricians, diesel mechanics, HVAC guys .....who spend years at trade schools, learning trades and doing apprenticeships . They are just as smart and equally, if not more informed as many of the smarmy fvcks looking down their noses at them

You need to find another setting, other than outraged.

The election is over. You won. Get over it.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 12:10:14 PM
Trump is looking for access all areas for his kids. It's worse than FF
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 16, 2016, 01:43:42 PM
Britain's Number One columnist Jeremy Hopkiss is back in today's Daily Heil, and boy does he tell it like it is!

STOP MOANING AND GET OVER IT, YOU PC FASCISTS!

HOPKISS AT LARGE ON THE US ELECTION - TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!

The PC Fascists are at it again.

Moaning because Donald Trump, who so fearlessly dared to call out the lefty liberal PC brigade for what they are, won a stunning victory in America.

Moaning about racism, moaning about anti-semitism, moaning about misogyny, moaning about mocking disabled people, moaning about everything, really.

Well I have a message for the sneering liberals, who talk in sneering tones, who want nothing more than to censor good, decent, hardworking people like you and me.

You LOST! Donald Trump WON! The fact is the majority of the people voted for him. Shut up and get over it, you moaners!

They moan because Trump dared to tell it like it is. That political correctness has ruined public discourse. That people are sick of being told what to think. That people aren't allowed speak their mind. Trump, thankfully, brought a dose of good old common sense.

The hand-wringing do-gooders, the bullies that attempt to clamp down on free speech would have you believe that women can't bring rape upon themselves, that blacks aren't entirely to blame for their own problems, that if good, decent, hardworking people want to keep the Muslims out, it isn't justified by the Muslims' own actions, that we shouldn't be allowed object to having to look at men holding hands with each other in public. Where's the culture of personal responsibility?

The sneering anti-intellectualism at the heart of the lefty liberal movement is clear. They tell us that America has a gun problem. They tell us that people aren't paid enough. They tell us that financial regulation is a good thing. They tell us the planet is warming up. They cite "facts".Well guess what - we're sick of "experts"!

Trump has been unfairly victimised by the bullies. He wants to make America great again. He stood up for the little people. He knows that by making people stand up on their own two feet, he's freeing them from the shackles of the tyranny of social security, the tyranny of Obamacare, the tyranny of government interference, the tyranny of trade unions, the tyranny of Mexican immigrants coming in and taking their jobs, the tyranny of the thieving taxman, the tyranny of the gaystapo and the feminazis, the tyranny of regulation. No longer will the pyjama-wearing welfare queens sponge off the state. They will be forced to make their own way in life. Wealth creators will be allowed to flourish and the market will be allowed work its magic. This is true freedom.

Free of the cronyism of the liberal elites, the blue-collar billionaire has drained the swamp, he's drained the stench of liberal corruption. Now honest men like Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, John Bolton, Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie and Mike Pence can fight for the people.

And we in Britain can be proud to say we led the way by standing up for ourselves against Europe. We rose, America followed.

Real people are sick of the cultural Marxism that has been constantly shoved down our throats by the biased lefty liberal media. They say if you dislike gays, you're a homophobe, if you dislike blacks, you're a racist, if you dislike Muslims, you're an Islamophobe, if you dislike Jews, you're an anti-semite.

Well, guess what, lefty liberals? Real people are sick of being told what to think. This is a real revolution.

Free speech has won.

So, PC brigade, I've got one message for you. Suck it up and shut up!

Because one likes a whinge, do they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 16, 2016, 01:48:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 16, 2016, 01:43:42 PM
Britain's Number One columnist Jeremy Hopkiss is back in today's Daily Heil, and boy does he tell it like it is!

STOP MOANING AND GET OVER IT, YOU PC FASCISTS!

HOPKISS AT LARGE ON THE US ELECTION - TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!

... Load of moaning and whinging deleted ...


For someone who doesn't seem to like moaning and whinging, he does a lot of moaning and whinging.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 16, 2016, 02:07:13 PM
Interesting thoughts on a possible new US approach to foreign affairs

The World at One ‏@BBCWorldatOne  · 3m3 minutes ago 
"What difference does who owns Crimea make to the US?" Trump-backer and ex-senior CIA official Michael Scheuer #wato #Trump

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 02:09:29 PM

Lefty liberals force feeding education down the throats of people who value liberty
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3940402/A-parade-Kourtney-Kardashian-shares-revealing-image-sister-Khloe-bathing-suit-posts-equally-naughty-one-herself.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 16, 2016, 02:16:41 PM
QuoteTrump has been unfairly victimised by the bullies. He wants to make America great again. He stood up for the little people. He knows that by making people stand up on their own two feet, he's freeing them from the shackles of the tyranny of social security, the t

I think that people here are disarppointed that the democrats had someone like that (Bernie Sanders) but then the party machine got involved and selected someone in their image.

If the repuublicans party had their way, Trump would never have run.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling.

Sticks and stones Whitey, or have the snowflakes on the right forgotten that? And if you believe that being called "non-college educated" even compares to some of the labels applied to the left and minorities by Pravda (sorry, Breitbart...) and other alt right sources, then you truly have drank the Kool-Aid. But of course, you voted Jill Stein...didn't you? For a Green voter, you're awfully worried about the sensibilities of the right.

I'd have a lot more respect for Trump voters if they owned what they voted for, instead of whining on about being forgotten.

And the MSM also need to stop colluding in the post election consensus that Trump will pivot to rationality. Nothing he has done since the election gives any indication that he will rule in any fashion other than how he campaigned.

Which means ICE will be trawling Dorchester, Worcester and the suburbs of New York for Irish illegals to deport as well as the barrios of LA.

The Republic is in free fall, because Trump voters cut the parachute cords.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 02:26:07 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 16, 2016, 09:28:13 AM
Journalists are helping to create a dangerous consensus

Brexit vote and US election showed media's failure to ask the really difficult questions
Declan Lawn

If the job of investigative journalism is to put new and relevant facts into the public domain, then the American media performed relatively well during the recent presidential campaign, and in some cases, it did brilliantly.

The "hot mic" tapes and Donald Trump's tax returns were, by anyone's standards, excellent scoops and most probably, in any election before this one, they might have ended the hopes of a presidential candidate. But not this time. This time, the facts no longer mattered.

We've heard a lot recently about the concept of a "post-factual society" and there has been a great deal of debate about what that means.

Some say it's a society where facts no longer exist; in fact it's a society where they exist, but don't matter.

In that scenario, serious investigative journalism finds itself in the novel position of making less and less impact.

Until relatively recently, a methodical piece of revelatory investigative journalism could expect to produce two results – outrage on behalf of its readership and audience, and shame on behalf of its target.

Fifteen years ago when I first went to work as a reporter for Panorama, the BBC current affairs and investigative programme, we could count on a general set of moral and ethical assumptions shared across society and work out pretty well how our journalism would play in them.

If you did a story about how a tycoon was treating his minimum-wage workers terribly and you told it with compelling testimony, perhaps with secret filming and supported by documentary evidence, you could pretty much guarantee that when it went out on prime-time television, the audience would be outraged.

Then, almost certainly, the "shame" element would follow, like a necessary bedfellow. We could expect a mea culpa from the tycoon, perhaps a public apology and a declared determination to make things better.

All of that is changing fast. One of the greatest changes I have noticed in journalism is that stories we would consider to be important no longer make the impact we expected.

So why is that? A simple and rather superficial answer – although it contains a lot of truth – is social media. Outrage is in short supply because it is a muscle that has been over-used. The human heart can only summon so much outrage.

If you are checking your Twitter feed 20 times a day, the chances are that on a fairly regular basis you are seeing sights that most humans were, until recently, rarely exposed to. A dead baby in the ruins of Aleppo; a mother holding her child, killed in a chemical attack; a teenager who has been run over by a lorry in a terrorist attack in France.

Most big broadcasters have "ingest editors" – people whose job it is to look at the raw footage sent in from all over the world, and to cut out the horror that cannot be shown on mainstream television.

It's a tough job and people who do it regularly receive breaks from it as well as counselling to help them deal with it.

These days, we're all ingest editors, but without the breaks or the counselling.

In that context, the human capacity for outrage becomes exhausted very quickly.

You cannot be outraged all of the time and so when you hear news of another political scandal or tax-evading business person, the moral and emotional bank is empty.

Take the concept of shame. These days if you're the centre of a big story and you have done wrong, you can be almost guaranteed it will blow over.

An entire industry of crisis management PR consultants has grown up around the task of telling clients to sit tight.

And the brutal truth about shame, both the public and private kind, is that too often it is a factor of expectation; those who think the punishment will be fleeting or non-existent feel it a great deal less.

In today's political climate, would US president Richard Nixon have been impeached? Would he have resigned? I don't believe so.

He might instead simply send out a tweet saying his enemies were out to get him, and God Bless America, and now it's time to move on – and we all would.

So, how have we got here? It starts with the financial crisis of 2008. When the history books are written, the seismic political events of the past year will be traced to that beginning.

Before, during, and after the 2008 crash, serious journalism dropped the ball. Because we knew, didn't we? We knew.

In Belfast, London and Dublin, we knew on some instinctive common-sense level but we subjugated our instincts to the judgments of experts who did not exist. We knew it didn't feel right, that it was unsustainable.

But as journalists we missed it. Or more to the point, we didn't tell it, until it came from the bottom up and could not be ignored – until it had already happened.

The central issue is that journalists buy into narratives just like everybody else and just like everybody else we can be wrong on a collective and massive scale. This is no surprise – we are not supernatural sages.

The problem is that we are getting ever worse at going against the dominant consensus. Fewer and fewer of us are anti-authoritarian enough and difficult enough to go with our gut and challenge the narrative.

These days journalists are not rewarded for being difficult. A culture does not exist in which a journalist can render an alternative narrative without being dismissed as a loonie leftie or alt-right conspiracy theorist.

Thirty years ago journalists questioned dominant narratives all the time – it was what journalists were for.

Today, questioning the consensus is a dangerous game; whether it's the consensus of neoliberalism or military interventionism or whatever – it gets you called a "conspiracy theorist". This is how journalism fails.

As humans we have instincts about things we see around us. Intuition. Common sense. And as journalists, we have a duty to follow these observations wherever they take us, even if it is against the prevailing wisdom.

Yet now, too many of us have had that instinct trained out of us; we stay with the herd, even when there are no real fences us around to hold us in – just our own expectations and those of our peers.

I should point out, if it isn't already obvious, I am entirely guilty of the sin of which I speak. I spent a decade travelling around the UK doing Panorama after Panorama.

The subjects were diverse – welfare cuts, the National Health Service, undercover investigations into criminals, migrant labour exposés – I put a lot of facts out into the world and as far as I know they were all correct.

But the bigger story was the one all around me. It was what I was seeing in towns such as Stoke and Scunthorpe, Merthyr Tydfil and Bradford. It was the despair. The grim, grinding, daily despair in the lives of so many of the people I met.

And yet I had no way to tell it as a story, to sum it all up, to tie it together, even though I felt it instinctively. I never even suggested it. I should have. And then on June 23rd in the vote on EU membership it became a story after all.

So how have we failed? We have failed in America and the UK by narrowing the acceptable boundaries of investigative journalism.

We have failed by allowing a climate of intellectual adventure to wither away from journalism, the one part of society that should support voices who seriously and thoughtfully challenge the dominant narratives that shape our world.

We have allowed ourselves to become a herd of sheep, and the more closely the herd bunches together, the smaller the corner of the field it takes up.

Pretty soon we think this corner of the field is the whole field.

But it isn't – it's just our corner.

So is there a way forward? I think so. First, mainstream newspapers and broadcasters need to fundamentally change the kind of content they commission.

They need to seek out voices on the extremes of right and left instead of allowing new, single-politics media outlets grow up at the fringes.

They should feature these voices and interrogate them, holding them to the standard we all aspire to – of fact-based reason. Bring everyone into the tent. See how they hold up under questioning.

Journalists need to pull off the greatest trick of all – to recognise the limits of their own perceptions and try to exceed them. To see that there might be another narrative and another way of looking at the world.

We need to use journalistic rigour to stress-test the basic assumptions we all live under.

We need to question the consensus because the only thing that is certain is that the consensus nearly always turns out to be wrong. As a journalist, I look forward to it all, now that everything has changed.

In a way, I find these strange, dark and ridiculous times to be exciting. They say that soldiers need wars. Journalists too get stale without a fight. We should get out of the corner of the field and go looking for one.

This is an edited version of a contribution to the Cleraun Media Conference on Investigative Journalism on the Digital Frontier held last weekend in Dublin. Declan Lawn is a reporter with BBC Current Affairs, working mainly for Panorama and BBC Northern Ireland's Spotlight programme.
It's groupthink and self censorship . There were loads of articles. But it wasn't in the interest of your career to join the dots

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/nov/05/america-supersized-unequality-gridlock-follows
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/feb/17/bruce-springsteen-wrecking-ball
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/77969ab0-956a-11e1-ad38-00144feab49a.html
http://www.progressive.org/shame-on-obama-for-abandoning-wisconsin-during-the-recall
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/the-squeezed-middle-abroad-tales-of-toil-and-turmoil-1.459088
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bca4c114-29d8-11e3-bbb8-00144feab7de.html

Journalists operate in silos. The finance ones don't talk to anyone. The political hacks don't understand finance.
Stephen Collins has no idea of how the Eurozone works. That is not his job.
 
If you look at UK economic stats it has been clear for a while that the rich are creaming it and that the working classes are being shafted.
But everybody wants an optimistic story

There is far too much trust in broken institutions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 02:34:28 PM
Give them enough rope

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3938170/Let-Nigel-Farage-help-build-bridge-Donald-Trump-says-Katie-Hopkins.html

It's pretty obvious that Trump is a con. The economic story may hang together as far as March. But not longer. there won't be any payrises. there might be a half a million new jobs.
There will be healthcare increases and tax cuts for the ultra rich.
It will be hard to keep the bullshit going.

And people who flock to Trump now like Ms Dogshit and Nigel Falange and Dershowitz are going to be exposed for the frauds they are.  After WW2 in France the likes of Katie were executed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 16, 2016, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling.

Sticks and stones Whitey, or have the snowflakes on the right forgotten that? And if you believe that being called "non-college educated" even compares to some of the labels applied to the left and minorities by Pravda (sorry, Breitbart...) and other alt right sources, then you truly have drank the Kool-Aid. But of course, you voted Jill Stein...didn't you? For a Green voter, you're awfully worried about the sensibilities of the right.

I'd have a lot more respect for Trump voters if they owned what they voted for, instead of whining on about being forgotten.

And the MSM also need to stop colluding in the post election consensus that Trump will pivot to rationality. Nothing he has done since the election gives any indication that he will rule in any fashion other than how he campaigned.

Which means ICE will be trawling Dorchester, Worcester and the suburbs of New York for Irish illegals to deport as well as the barrios of LA.

The Republic is in free fall, because Trump voters cut the parachute cords.

So in essence the man has spent nit one minute in office and the 'republic is in free fall because Trump supporters cut the parachute chords'

If the republic is in free fall it is because of Obama and Clinton's failure on virtually every political policy they touched, don't put this on people who voted for Trump, that is wrong and cowardly, and typical of the left.

Trump got elected because the eight years under the democrats sickened the electorate, scandal after scandal, the lies added up and then your champion Hillary throws a world class wobbker at the news she was going to lose and starts hitting people with objects she uses as projectiles, who would vote for a nasty bitch like that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 16, 2016, 02:07:13 PM
Interesting thoughts on a possible new US approach to foreign affairs

The World at One ‏@BBCWorldatOne  · 3m3 minutes ago 
"What difference does who owns Crimea make to the US?" Trump-backer and ex-senior CIA official Michael Scheuer #wato #Trump

Any borders can be changed by force. That is what it will mean
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 16, 2016, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling.

Sticks and stones Whitey, or have the snowflakes on the right forgotten that? And if you believe that being called "non-college educated" even compares to some of the labels applied to the left and minorities by Pravda (sorry, Breitbart...) and other alt right sources, then you truly have drank the Kool-Aid. But of course, you voted Jill Stein...didn't you? For a Green voter, you're awfully worried about the sensibilities of the right.

I'd have a lot more respect for Trump voters if they owned what they voted for, instead of whining on about being forgotten.

And the MSM also need to stop colluding in the post election consensus that Trump will pivot to rationality. Nothing he has done since the election gives any indication that he will rule in any fashion other than how he campaigned.

Which means ICE will be trawling Dorchester, Worcester and the suburbs of New York for Irish illegals to deport as well as the barrios of LA.

The Republic is in free fall, because Trump voters cut the parachute cords.

Theyre not the ones requiring safe spaces, trigger warnings and cute cuddly puppies to deal with the trauma of their candidate losing. They're too busy humping it 60 hours a week because their healthcare premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half

2018 midterms do not favor the Democrats and if Trump does a halfway decent job, Republicans could pick up a super majority.

Keep mocking.....it's all going to end badly for you

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 03:15:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling.

Sticks and stones Whitey, or have the snowflakes on the right forgotten that? And if you believe that being called "non-college educated" even compares to some of the labels applied to the left and minorities by Pravda (sorry, Breitbart...) and other alt right sources, then you truly have drank the Kool-Aid. But of course, you voted Jill Stein...didn't you? For a Green voter, you're awfully worried about the sensibilities of the right.

I'd have a lot more respect for Trump voters if they owned what they voted for, instead of whining on about being forgotten.

And the MSM also need to stop colluding in the post election consensus that Trump will pivot to rationality. Nothing he has done since the election gives any indication that he will rule in any fashion other than how he campaigned.

Which means ICE will be trawling Dorchester, Worcester and the suburbs of New York for Irish illegals to deport as well as the barrios of LA.

The Republic is in free fall, because Trump voters cut the parachute cords.

Theyre not the ones requiring safe spaces, trigger warnings and cute cuddly puppies to deal with the trauma of their candidate losing. They're too busy humping it 60 hours a week because their healthcare premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half

2018 midterms do not favor the Democrats and if Trump does a halfway decent job, Republicans could pick up a super majority.

Keep mocking.....it's all going to end badly for you
That is a keeper, Whitey
The economy may have had the crash by 2018
Trump is taking the piss

He will not do anything about healthcare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOuf69G7AQU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling.

Sticks and stones Whitey, or have the snowflakes on the right forgotten that? And if you believe that being called "non-college educated" even compares to some of the labels applied to the left and minorities by Pravda (sorry, Breitbart...) and other alt right sources, then you truly have drank the Kool-Aid. But of course, you voted Jill Stein...didn't you? For a Green voter, you're awfully worried about the sensibilities of the right.

I'd have a lot more respect for Trump voters if they owned what they voted for, instead of whining on about being forgotten.

And the MSM also need to stop colluding in the post election consensus that Trump will pivot to rationality. Nothing he has done since the election gives any indication that he will rule in any fashion other than how he campaigned.

Which means ICE will be trawling Dorchester, Worcester and the suburbs of New York for Irish illegals to deport as well as the barrios of LA.

The Republic is in free fall, because Trump voters cut the parachute cords.

Theyre not the ones requiring safe spaces, trigger warnings and cute cuddly puppies to deal with the trauma of their candidate losing. They're too busy humping it 60 hours a week because their healthcare premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half

2018 midterms do not favor the Democrats and if Trump does a halfway decent job, Republicans could pick up a super majority.

Keep mocking.....it's all going to end badly for you

Unless there is an apocalypse (no guarantee there with Trump) it will be you rather than me it will be ending badly for.

Hey, look, one of my cuddly puppies just brought this headline through the door

http://www.abc10.com/news/local/california/how-many-americans-are-affected-by-obamacare-price-hikes/341809982

So, in the reality based world, a miniscule level of people are seeing premium rises, average premium rates actually down in 2016 when subsidies are included and 2017 enrolment increased, even after the scare stories, from 2016. But in the world of the right wing snowflakes, the forgotten men and women can barely see through their tears to read their insurance bills. You guys really do think that you're oppressed. Good Jesus.

Poor petals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 03:59:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 16, 2016, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling.

Sticks and stones Whitey, or have the snowflakes on the right forgotten that? And if you believe that being called "non-college educated" even compares to some of the labels applied to the left and minorities by Pravda (sorry, Breitbart...) and other alt right sources, then you truly have drank the Kool-Aid. But of course, you voted Jill Stein...didn't you? For a Green voter, you're awfully worried about the sensibilities of the right.

I'd have a lot more respect for Trump voters if they owned what they voted for, instead of whining on about being forgotten.

And the MSM also need to stop colluding in the post election consensus that Trump will pivot to rationality. Nothing he has done since the election gives any indication that he will rule in any fashion other than how he campaigned.

Which means ICE will be trawling Dorchester, Worcester and the suburbs of New York for Irish illegals to deport as well as the barrios of LA.

The Republic is in free fall, because Trump voters cut the parachute cords.

So in essence the man has spent nit one minute in office and the 'republic is in free fall because Trump supporters cut the parachute chords'

If the republic is in free fall it is because of Obama and Clinton's failure on virtually every political policy they touched, don't put this on people who voted for Trump, that is wrong and cowardly, and typical of the left.

Trump got elected because the eight years under the democrats sickened the electorate, scandal after scandal, the lies added up and then your champion Hillary throws a world class wobbker at the news she was going to lose and starts hitting people with objects she uses as projectiles, who would vote for a nasty bitch like that?

Scandal after scandal?

Would that be real scandals (like say, Watergate, Irangate, Enron, misleading the UN over WMDs, the financial crash of 2008) or ones where there is, despite repeated partisan investigation, no case to answer (Benghazi and emails)?

Poor stew - now that you have no one to blame, who will you blame?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 16, 2016, 04:33:01 PM
http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_fav.htm (http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_fav.htm)

Overall opinion of Barack Obama:
Favorable 62%
Unfavorable 37%
(Gallup Poll, 11/9-13) :D :D


You'd wonder who they polled wouldn't you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 16, 2016, 04:33:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 03:06:58 PM
They're too busy humping it 60 hours a week because their healthcare premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half

If they are getting their health insurance through an Obamacare exchange they will save money by not having healthcare insurance after Trump gets rid of Obamacare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 16, 2016, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 16, 2016, 02:07:13 PM
Interesting thoughts on a possible new US approach to foreign affairs

The World at One ‏@BBCWorldatOne  · 3m3 minutes ago 
"What difference does who owns Crimea make to the US?" Trump-backer and ex-senior CIA official Michael Scheuer #wato #Trump

Any borders can be changed by force. That is what it will mean
one of the main reasons trump was elected was to take care of the us border not the Crimean one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 16, 2016, 04:53:10 PM
https://www.donedeal.ie/othermotor-for-sale/airplane-for-quick-sale-due-to-new-company-jet-/13873632 (https://www.donedeal.ie/othermotor-for-sale/airplane-for-quick-sale-due-to-new-company-jet-/13873632)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 05:29:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 16, 2016, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 16, 2016, 02:07:13 PM
Interesting thoughts on a possible new US approach to foreign affairs

The World at One ‏@BBCWorldatOne  · 3m3 minutes ago 
"What difference does who owns Crimea make to the US?" Trump-backer and ex-senior CIA official Michael Scheuer #wato #Trump

Any borders can be changed by force. That is what it will mean
one of the main reasons trump was elected was to take care of the us border not the Crimean one.
Your pension needs stability to be paid out as expected. A world where borders mean nothing is not good for your pension.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 16, 2016, 05:33:55 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling.

Sticks and stones Whitey, or have the snowflakes on the right forgotten that? And if you believe that being called "non-college educated" even compares to some of the labels applied to the left and minorities by Pravda (sorry, Breitbart...) and other alt right sources, then you truly have drank the Kool-Aid. But of course, you voted Jill Stein...didn't you? For a Green voter, you're awfully worried about the sensibilities of the right.

I'd have a lot more respect for Trump voters if they owned what they voted for, instead of whining on about being forgotten.

And the MSM also need to stop colluding in the post election consensus that Trump will pivot to rationality. Nothing he has done since the election gives any indication that he will rule in any fashion other than how he campaigned.

Which means ICE will be trawling Dorchester, Worcester and the suburbs of New York for Irish illegals to deport as well as the barrios of LA.

The Republic is in free fall, because Trump voters cut the parachute cords.

Theyre not the ones requiring safe spaces, trigger warnings and cute cuddly puppies to deal with the trauma of their candidate losing. They're too busy humping it 60 hours a week because their healthcare premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half

2018 midterms do not favor the Democrats and if Trump does a halfway decent job, Republicans could pick up a super majority.

Keep mocking.....it's all going to end badly for you

Unless there is an apocalypse (no guarantee there with Trump) it will be you rather than me it will be ending badly for.

Hey, look, one of my cuddly puppies just brought this headline through the door

http://www.abc10.com/news/local/california/how-many-americans-are-affected-by-obamacare-price-hikes/341809982

So, in the reality based world, a miniscule level of people are seeing premium rises, average premium rates actually down in 2016 when subsidies are included and 2017 enrolment increased, even after the scare stories, from 2016. But in the world of the right wing snowflakes, the forgotten men and women can barely see through their tears to read their insurance bills. You guys really do think that you're oppressed. Good Jesus.

Poor petals.

Did you even read the article Prefessor Gruber?  (And more importantly do you understand it?)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 16, 2016, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 03:59:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 16, 2016, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling.

Sticks and stones Whitey, or have the snowflakes on the right forgotten that? And if you believe that being called "non-college educated" even compares to some of the labels applied to the left and minorities by Pravda (sorry, Breitbart...) and other alt right sources, then you truly have drank the Kool-Aid. But of course, you voted Jill Stein...didn't you? For a Green voter, you're awfully worried about the sensibilities of the right.

I'd have a lot more respect for Trump voters if they owned what they voted for, instead of whining on about being forgotten.

And the MSM also need to stop colluding in the post election consensus that Trump will pivot to rationality. Nothing he has done since the election gives any indication that he will rule in any fashion other than how he campaigned.

Which means ICE will be trawling Dorchester, Worcester and the suburbs of New York for Irish illegals to deport as well as the barrios of LA.

The Republic is in free fall, because Trump voters cut the parachute cords.

So in essence the man has spent nit one minute in office and the 'republic is in free fall because Trump supporters cut the parachute chords'

If the republic is in free fall it is because of Obama and Clinton's failure on virtually every political policy they touched, don't put this on people who voted for Trump, that is wrong and cowardly, and typical of the left.

Trump got elected because the eight years under the democrats sickened the electorate, scandal after scandal, the lies added up and then your champion Hillary throws a world class wobbker at the news she was going to lose and starts hitting people with objects she uses as projectiles, who would vote for a nasty bitch like that?

Scandal after scandal?

Would that be real scandals (like say, Watergate, Irangate, Enron, misleading the UN over WMDs, the financial crash of 2008) or ones where there is, despite repeated partisan investigation, no case to answer (Benghazi and emails)?

Poor stew - now that you have no one to blame, who will you blame?

Bush, Obama, Kerry, Clinton, Reid, Pelosi, that will do for a start, morons all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 16, 2016, 05:51:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 05:29:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 16, 2016, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 16, 2016, 02:07:13 PM
Interesting thoughts on a possible new US approach to foreign affairs

The World at One ‏@BBCWorldatOne  · 3m3 minutes ago 
"What difference does who owns Crimea make to the US?" Trump-backer and ex-senior CIA official Michael Scheuer #wato #Trump

Any borders can be changed by force. That is what it will mean
one of the main reasons trump was elected was to take care of the us border not the Crimean one.
Your pension needs stability to be paid out as expected. A world where borders mean nothing is not good for your pension.
borders mean nothing to merkel  or the us democrat party , that's called nationalism did u not see mr Obamas speech condemning all that sort of thing yesterday .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 16, 2016, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: stew on November 16, 2016, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 03:59:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 16, 2016, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 16, 2016, 08:53:51 AM
Non-college educated means that the people within that demographic did not go to college- it does not mean that they are not educated in any other sense. It was also used mainly by pollsters as it is one of their main ways of differentiating voters for measurement.

But if being called non-college educated, when you are, in fact, non-college educated, is your reason for voting for a vicious, bigoted, sexual predator, then I believe the term "snowflake" applies. Whitey, would you not be giving those people a boot up the hole for their sensitivity?

The transition is falling apart, it's hilarious. Trump is too incompetent to be a dictator.

Lol.....keep ignoring and issues and keep up the name calling.

Sticks and stones Whitey, or have the snowflakes on the right forgotten that? And if you believe that being called "non-college educated" even compares to some of the labels applied to the left and minorities by Pravda (sorry, Breitbart...) and other alt right sources, then you truly have drank the Kool-Aid. But of course, you voted Jill Stein...didn't you? For a Green voter, you're awfully worried about the sensibilities of the right.

I'd have a lot more respect for Trump voters if they owned what they voted for, instead of whining on about being forgotten.

And the MSM also need to stop colluding in the post election consensus that Trump will pivot to rationality. Nothing he has done since the election gives any indication that he will rule in any fashion other than how he campaigned.

Which means ICE will be trawling Dorchester, Worcester and the suburbs of New York for Irish illegals to deport as well as the barrios of LA.

The Republic is in free fall, because Trump voters cut the parachute cords.

So in essence the man has spent nit one minute in office and the 'republic is in free fall because Trump supporters cut the parachute chords'

If the republic is in free fall it is because of Obama and Clinton's failure on virtually every political policy they touched, don't put this on people who voted for Trump, that is wrong and cowardly, and typical of the left.

Trump got elected because the eight years under the democrats sickened the electorate, scandal after scandal, the lies added up and then your champion Hillary throws a world class wobbker at the news she was going to lose and starts hitting people with objects she uses as projectiles, who would vote for a nasty bitch like that?

Scandal after scandal?

Would that be real scandals (like say, Watergate, Irangate, Enron, misleading the UN over WMDs, the financial crash of 2008) or ones where there is, despite repeated partisan investigation, no case to answer (Benghazi and emails)?

Poor stew - now that you have no one to blame, who will you blame?

Bush, Obama, Kerry, Clinton, Reid, Pelosi, that will do for a start, morons all.

Stew, you are starting to sound like Father Jack😇
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 16, 2016, 09:13:20 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/l2ylqtb.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 09:47:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 16, 2016, 01:43:42 PM
Britain's Number One columnist Jeremy Hopkiss is back in today's Daily Heil, and boy does he tell it like it is!

STOP MOANING AND GET OVER IT, YOU PC FASCISTS!

HOPKISS AT LARGE ON THE US ELECTION - TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!

The PC Fascists are at it again.

Moaning because Donald Trump, who so fearlessly dared to call out the lefty liberal PC brigade for what they are, won a stunning victory in America.

Moaning about racism, moaning about anti-semitism, moaning about misogyny, moaning about mocking disabled people, moaning about everything, really.

Well I have a message for the sneering liberals, who talk in sneering tones, who want nothing more than to censor good, decent, hardworking people like you and me.

You LOST! Donald Trump WON! The fact is the majority of the people voted for him. Shut up and get over it, you moaners!

They moan because Trump dared to tell it like it is. That political correctness has ruined public discourse. That people are sick of being told what to think. That people aren't allowed speak their mind. Trump, thankfully, brought a dose of good old common sense.

The hand-wringing do-gooders, the bullies that attempt to clamp down on free speech would have you believe that women can't bring rape upon themselves, that blacks aren't entirely to blame for their own problems, that if good, decent, hardworking people want to keep the Muslims out, it isn't justified by the Muslims' own actions, that we shouldn't be allowed object to having to look at men holding hands with each other in public. Where's the culture of personal responsibility?

The sneering anti-intellectualism at the heart of the lefty liberal movement is clear. They tell us that America has a gun problem. They tell us that people aren't paid enough. They tell us that financial regulation is a good thing. They tell us the planet is warming up. They cite "facts".Well guess what - we're sick of "experts"!

Trump has been unfairly victimised by the bullies. He wants to make America great again. He stood up for the little people. He knows that by making people stand up on their own two feet, he's freeing them from the shackles of the tyranny of social security, the tyranny of Obamacare, the tyranny of government interference, the tyranny of trade unions, the tyranny of Mexican immigrants coming in and taking their jobs, the tyranny of the thieving taxman, the tyranny of the gaystapo and the feminazis, the tyranny of regulation. No longer will the pyjama-wearing welfare queens sponge off the state. They will be forced to make their own way in life. Wealth creators will be allowed to flourish and the market will be allowed work its magic. This is true freedom.

Free of the cronyism of the liberal elites, the blue-collar billionaire has drained the swamp, he's drained the stench of liberal corruption. Now honest men like Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, John Bolton, Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie and Mike Pence can fight for the people.

And we in Britain can be proud to say we led the way by standing up for ourselves against Europe. We rose, America followed.

Real people are sick of the cultural Marxism that has been constantly shoved down our throats by the biased lefty liberal media. They say if you dislike gays, you're a homophobe, if you dislike blacks, you're a racist, if you dislike Muslims, you're an Islamophobe, if you dislike Jews, you're an anti-semite.

Well, guess what, lefty liberals? Real people are sick of being told what to think. This is a real revolution.

Free speech has won.

So, PC brigade, I've got one message for you. Suck it up and shut up!

Because one likes a whinge, do they?
Mrs Hopkiss has been discovered reading Mumsnet
Chief Gauleiter Bannon got wind of it and asked Jezza which he would prefer. Cancer or a wife who thinks.
He is very shaken.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 17, 2016, 12:41:06 AM
You know the process is fucked when the guy running it has to tell you how "organised" it is!!

He hasn't a f**king Scooby Doo!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 12:55:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2016, 09:47:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 16, 2016, 01:43:42 PM
Britain's Number One columnist Jeremy Hopkiss is back in today's Daily Heil, and boy does he tell it like it is!

STOP MOANING AND GET OVER IT, YOU PC FASCISTS!

HOPKISS AT LARGE ON THE US ELECTION - TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!

The PC Fascists are at it again.

Moaning because Donald Trump, who so fearlessly dared to call out the lefty liberal PC brigade for what they are, won a stunning victory in America.

Moaning about racism, moaning about anti-semitism, moaning about misogyny, moaning about mocking disabled people, moaning about everything, really.

Well I have a message for the sneering liberals, who talk in sneering tones, who want nothing more than to censor good, decent, hardworking people like you and me.

You LOST! Donald Trump WON! The fact is the majority of the people voted for him. Shut up and get over it, you moaners!

They moan because Trump dared to tell it like it is. That political correctness has ruined public discourse. That people are sick of being told what to think. That people aren't allowed speak their mind. Trump, thankfully, brought a dose of good old common sense.

The hand-wringing do-gooders, the bullies that attempt to clamp down on free speech would have you believe that women can't bring rape upon themselves, that blacks aren't entirely to blame for their own problems, that if good, decent, hardworking people want to keep the Muslims out, it isn't justified by the Muslims' own actions, that we shouldn't be allowed object to having to look at men holding hands with each other in public. Where's the culture of personal responsibility?

The sneering anti-intellectualism at the heart of the lefty liberal movement is clear. They tell us that America has a gun problem. They tell us that people aren't paid enough. They tell us that financial regulation is a good thing. They tell us the planet is warming up. They cite "facts".Well guess what - we're sick of "experts"!

Trump has been unfairly victimised by the bullies. He wants to make America great again. He stood up for the little people. He knows that by making people stand up on their own two feet, he's freeing them from the shackles of the tyranny of social security, the tyranny of Obamacare, the tyranny of government interference, the tyranny of trade unions, the tyranny of Mexican immigrants coming in and taking their jobs, the tyranny of the thieving taxman, the tyranny of the gaystapo and the feminazis, the tyranny of regulation. No longer will the pyjama-wearing welfare queens sponge off the state. They will be forced to make their own way in life. Wealth creators will be allowed to flourish and the market will be allowed work its magic. This is true freedom.

Free of the cronyism of the liberal elites, the blue-collar billionaire has drained the swamp, he's drained the stench of liberal corruption. Now honest men like Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, John Bolton, Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie and Mike Pence can fight for the people.

And we in Britain can be proud to say we led the way by standing up for ourselves against Europe. We rose, America followed.

Real people are sick of the cultural Marxism that has been constantly shoved down our throats by the biased lefty liberal media. They say if you dislike gays, you're a homophobe, if you dislike blacks, you're a racist, if you dislike Muslims, you're an Islamophobe, if you dislike Jews, you're an anti-semite.

Well, guess what, lefty liberals? Real people are sick of being told what to think. This is a real revolution.

Free speech has won.

So, PC brigade, I've got one message for you. Suck it up and shut up!

Because one likes a whinge, do they?
Mrs Hopkiss has been discovered reading Mumsnet
Chief Gauleiter Bannon got wind of it and asked Jezza which he would prefer. Cancer or a wife who thinks.
He is very shaken.
Jezza met his wife through his patented chat up technique of a hop, kiss and jump. Ying to the Donald's yang of grabbing them right in the pussy.

Jezza's not worried about cancer as he knows from Alex Jones that there's a cure for it out there being kept under wraps by big pharma.

Jezza appreciates any contact from Stephen K.K.K Bannon and is willing to act as an intermediary between the Trump administration and UK Prime Minister Nigel Falange, as long as he can get a regular Breitbart column out of it.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 12:58:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 17, 2016, 12:41:06 AM
He hasn't a f**king Scooby Doo!!!
Unfortunately, unlike with his unwanted sexual advances to women, Trump won't be able to be headed off at the pass this time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 03:45:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 12:58:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 17, 2016, 12:41:06 AM
He hasn't a f**king Scooby Doo!!!
Unfortunately, unlike with his unwanted sexual advances to women, Trump won't be able to be headed off at the pass this time.
Old Mr Trump sure had us fooled for a while. Well, a week,
The mastermind of an elite special interest  against american workers 

Mr Edell sure had us fooled for a while. He says that climate change is a myth. He's working for the Kochs, the ****

Well well if it isn't our friend the KKK, Mr Bannon is a f**king nazi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ozIHomn8Q
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 17, 2016, 05:00:05 AM
Pretty sure we are gonna see a reality TV show from the White House...

Something like the Osbornes rolled into 1984, he'll turn the white house into a studio where he will do the show during the week and then head back to Trump tower for the weekend in New York.

It will be a PR master stroke as he'll be able to get all the viewers cheering on his decisions from their living rooms... and with him on the box every night of the week he wont need to do any press conferences. I can see it all now... the hoor's a f**king genius.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 05:59:08 AM
Now he is attacking the NYT on twitter  . Presumably dictated.
He spoke to foreign leaders without briefings.  Can he read?

The best description of the US economic system I have come across was in Charlie Hebdo. Pauperisation of American working and middle classes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 17, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
https://twitter.com/i/moments/799031909640589313 (https://twitter.com/i/moments/799031909640589313)

Trump narrating Planet Earth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 17, 2016, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 17, 2016, 05:00:05 AM
Pretty sure we are gonna see a reality TV show from the White House...

Something like the Osbornes rolled into 1984, he'll turn the white house into a studio where he will do the show during the week and then head back to Trump tower for the weekend in New York.

It will be a PR master stroke as he'll be able to get all the viewers cheering on his decisions from their living rooms... and with him on the box every night of the week he wont need to do any press conferences. I can see it all now... the hoor's a f**king genius.

Hilarious. )

I suppose it beats watching Clinton rule the roost from the big house!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 02:39:59 PM
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-american-politics-went-insane/485570/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:12:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 01:58:33 AM
One thing came up in conversation today that I hadn't even thought of before

Remember during the election we heard that Trump had all of his support coming from "non college educated white people".

How fvcking condescending can you get.....I know plenty of trades people over here.....electricians, diesel mechanics, HVAC guys .....who spend years at trade schools, learning trades and doing apprenticeships . They are just as smart and equally, if not more informed as many of the smarmy fvcks looking down their noses at them

Is it any more fucked up than looking down your nose at someone with an advanced education as "elitist"?

We're constantly hearing from conservatives about indoctrination in universities, as if being educated and learning how to analyze and critique and consider all sides of an issue were negative things. (Of course, the reason it is a problem for them is because many such people tend to start to question things like religion and conservative "positions" on scientific and cultural issues)

If I was still a farmer in Donegal, I would be just as intelligent as I am now. But I would probably know a hell of a lot less about the wider world if I had not pursued the education and career I did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:12:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 01:58:33 AM
One thing came up in conversation today that I hadn't even thought of before

Remember during the election we heard that Trump had all of his support coming from "non college educated white people".

How fvcking condescending can you get.....I know plenty of trades people over here.....electricians, diesel mechanics, HVAC guys .....who spend years at trade schools, learning trades and doing apprenticeships . They are just as smart and equally, if not more informed as many of the smarmy fvcks looking down their noses at them

Is it any more fucked up than looking down your nose at someone with an advanced education as "elitist"?

We're constantly hearing from conservatives about indoctrination in universities, as if being educated and learning how to analyze and critique and consider all sides of an issue were negative things.

If I was still a farmer in Donegal, I would be just as intelligent as I am now. But I would probably know a hell of a lot less about the wider world if I had not pursued the education and career I did.

"Experts"?

Pah, people are sick of experts!

Get with the programme!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:12:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2016, 01:58:33 AM
One thing came up in conversation today that I hadn't even thought of before

Remember during the election we heard that Trump had all of his support coming from "non college educated white people".

How fvcking condescending can you get.....I know plenty of trades people over here.....electricians, diesel mechanics, HVAC guys .....who spend years at trade schools, learning trades and doing apprenticeships . They are just as smart and equally, if not more informed as many of the smarmy fvcks looking down their noses at them

Is it any more fucked up than looking down your nose at someone with an advanced education as "elitist"?

We're constantly hearing from conservatives about indoctrination in universities, as if being educated and learning how to analyze and critique and consider all sides of an issue were negative things.

If I was still a farmer in Donegal, I would be just as intelligent as I am now. But I would probably know a hell of a lot less about the wider world if I had not pursued the education and career I did.

"Experts"?

Pah, people are sick of experts!

Get with the programme!

Yep, especially when the experts don't tell you what you want to hear!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 03:45:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 12:58:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 17, 2016, 12:41:06 AM
He hasn't a f**king Scooby Doo!!!
Unfortunately, unlike with his unwanted sexual advances to women, Trump won't be able to be headed off at the pass this time.
Old Mr Trump sure had us fooled for a while. Well, a week,
The mastermind of an elite special interest  against american workers 

Mr Edell sure had us fooled for a while. He says that climate change is a myth. He's working for the Kochs, the ****

Well well if it isn't our friend the KKK, Mr Bannon is a f**king nazi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ozIHomn8Q

Britain's NUMBER ONE columnist turns both barrels on those idiot environmentalists today, and boy does he nail it! Stand by for some good, old-fashioned COMMON SENSE!

FRACK OFF, ENVIRONMENTALISTS!

JEREMY HOPKISS AT LARGE - BRITAIN'S NUMBER ONE!

So the moaning PC liberal fascists are still moaning.

Moaning about "the environment", now.

They say fracking is dangerous. They say the planet is "undergoing man-made climate change that will destroy the lives of countless millions of people".

Well I've got news for you whinging lefties - you haven't a clue what you're talking about! You can't spell "environmentalist" without "mentalist"!

Fracking is good for the environment. It releases natural carbons into the ground from which we all benefit. There's no evidence whatsoever that it has damaged people's water, and no amount of propaganda from tree-hugging crusties changes that fact, because it's a FACT. End of.

Now, if you want a real scandal about what's in your water, take fluoride. Fluoride is a mind-controlling chemical that is put in your water as a thought control technique. The sneering lefties are literally trying to brainwash you and your children!

There's also no evidence that humans are warming up the planet. Who created the Earth? God, that's who (although of course the Godless anti-religious pinko fascists deny his existence).
Do people really think that us humans can actually influence Mother Nature? What stupidity! What arrogance!

The fact is, the planet is going through one of its healthy warming cycles. And that's good - it means cheap holidays for you, me, and everybody else. No longer will we have to go to Magaluf or Torremolinos to get away to the sun. We can can just go to Bognor Regis instead. And people say a warmer planet is a bad thing!

Donald Trump has it right. He has appointed Myron Ebell, a man who actually understands real science, as opposed to the fake, politically-driven fake "science" being peddled in lefty liberal universities the world over, as his head of the Environmental Protection Agency in the US. I hope Ebell winds the damn thing up and destroys the EPA like Maggie Thatcher heroically destroyed the protected, cosseted coal miners in this country in the 1980s.

Our environment doesn't need protection. It needs to be run by efficient, wealth creating, private firms. We need to be protected from the politically correct liberal elite tree huggers who want to send us back to the dark ages.

Trump has it right. We need to burn more coal. We need to burn more fossil fuels. Trump is going to being the jobs back to coal mining areas. Carbon dioxide is a life-giving natural substance which benefits everybody.

So, I have a message for all you miserable, whining, tree hugging SJWs who want me to freeze to death in my own house on winter nights. Frack off!

Burn, baby, burn!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:35:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 03:45:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 12:58:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 17, 2016, 12:41:06 AM
He hasn't a f**king Scooby Doo!!!
Unfortunately, unlike with his unwanted sexual advances to women, Trump won't be able to be headed off at the pass this time.
Old Mr Trump sure had us fooled for a while. Well, a week,
The mastermind of an elite special interest  against american workers 

Mr Edell sure had us fooled for a while. He says that climate change is a myth. He's working for the Kochs, the ****

Well well if it isn't our friend the KKK, Mr Bannon is a f**king nazi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ozIHomn8Q

Britain's NUMBER ONE columnist turns both barrels on those idiot environmentalists today, and boy does he nail it! Stand by for some good, old-fashioned COMMON SENSE!

FRACK OFF, ENVIRONMENTALISTS!

JEREMY HOPKISS AT LARGE - BRITAIN'S NUMBER ONE!

So the moaning PC liberal fascists are still moaning.

Moaning about "the environment", now.

They say fracking is dangerous. They say the planet is "undergoing man-made climate change that will destroy the lives of countless millions of people".

Well I've got news for you whinging lefties - you haven't a clue what you're talking about! You can't spell "environmentalist" without "mentalist"!

Fracking is good for the environment. It releases natural carbons into the ground from which we all benefit. There's no evidence whatsoever that it has damaged people's water, and no amount of propaganda from tree-hugging crusties changes that fact, because it's a FACT. End of.

Now, if you want a real scandal about what's in your water, take fluoride. Fluoride is a mind-controlling chemical that is put in your water as a thought control technique. The sneering lefties are literally trying to brainwash you and your children!

There's also no evidence that humans are warming up the planet. Who created the Earth? God, that's who (although of course the Godless anti-religious pinko fascists deny his existence).
Do people really think that us humans can actually influence Mother Nature? What stupidity! What arrogance!

The fact is, the planet is going through one of its healthy warming cycles. And that's good - it means cheap holidays for you, me, and everybody else. No longer will we have to go to Magaluf or Torremolinos to get away to the sun. We can can just go to Bognor Regis instead. And people say a warmer planet is a bad thing!

Donald Trump has it right. He has appointed Myron Ebell, a man who actually understands real science, as opposed to the fake, politically-driven fake "science" being peddled in lefty liberal universities the world over, as his head of the Environmental Protection Agency in the US. I hope Ebell winds the damn thing up and destroys the EPA like Maggie Thatcher heroically destroyed the protected, cosseted coal miners in this country in the 1980s.

Our environment doesn't need protection. It needs to be run by efficient, wealth creating, private firms. We need to be protected from the politically correct liberal elite tree huggers who want to send us back to the dark ages.

Trump has it right. We need to burn more coal. We need to burn more fossil fuels. Trump is going to being the jobs back to coal mining areas. Carbon dioxide is a life-giving natural substance which benefits everybody.

So, I have a message for all you miserable, whining, tree hugging SJWs who want me to freeze to death in my own house on winter nights. Frack off!

Burn, baby, burn!

This HAS to be an Onion-type piece of satire, surely?? :o ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:35:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 03:45:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 12:58:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 17, 2016, 12:41:06 AM
He hasn't a f**king Scooby Doo!!!
Unfortunately, unlike with his unwanted sexual advances to women, Trump won't be able to be headed off at the pass this time.
Old Mr Trump sure had us fooled for a while. Well, a week,
The mastermind of an elite special interest  against american workers 

Mr Edell sure had us fooled for a while. He says that climate change is a myth. He's working for the Kochs, the ****

Well well if it isn't our friend the KKK, Mr Bannon is a f**king nazi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ozIHomn8Q

Britain's NUMBER ONE columnist turns both barrels on those idiot environmentalists today, and boy does he nail it! Stand by for some good, old-fashioned COMMON SENSE!

FRACK OFF, ENVIRONMENTALISTS!

JEREMY HOPKISS AT LARGE - BRITAIN'S NUMBER ONE!

So the moaning PC liberal fascists are still moaning.

Moaning about "the environment", now.

They say fracking is dangerous. They say the planet is "undergoing man-made climate change that will destroy the lives of countless millions of people".

Well I've got news for you whinging lefties - you haven't a clue what you're talking about! You can't spell "environmentalist" without "mentalist"!

Fracking is good for the environment. It releases natural carbons into the ground from which we all benefit. There's no evidence whatsoever that it has damaged people's water, and no amount of propaganda from tree-hugging crusties changes that fact, because it's a FACT. End of.

Now, if you want a real scandal about what's in your water, take fluoride. Fluoride is a mind-controlling chemical that is put in your water as a thought control technique. The sneering lefties are literally trying to brainwash you and your children!

There's also no evidence that humans are warming up the planet. Who created the Earth? God, that's who (although of course the Godless anti-religious pinko fascists deny his existence).
Do people really think that us humans can actually influence Mother Nature? What stupidity! What arrogance!

The fact is, the planet is going through one of its healthy warming cycles. And that's good - it means cheap holidays for you, me, and everybody else. No longer will we have to go to Magaluf or Torremolinos to get away to the sun. We can can just go to Bognor Regis instead. And people say a warmer planet is a bad thing!

Donald Trump has it right. He has appointed Myron Ebell, a man who actually understands real science, as opposed to the fake, politically-driven fake "science" being peddled in lefty liberal universities the world over, as his head of the Environmental Protection Agency in the US. I hope Ebell winds the damn thing up and destroys the EPA like Maggie Thatcher heroically destroyed the protected, cosseted coal miners in this country in the 1980s.

Our environment doesn't need protection. It needs to be run by efficient, wealth creating, private firms. We need to be protected from the politically correct liberal elite tree huggers who want to send us back to the dark ages.

Trump has it right. We need to burn more coal. We need to burn more fossil fuels. Trump is going to being the jobs back to coal mining areas. Carbon dioxide is a life-giving natural substance which benefits everybody.

So, I have a message for all you miserable, whining, tree hugging SJWs who want me to freeze to death in my own house on winter nights. Frack off!

Burn, baby, burn!

This HAS to be an Onion-type piece of satire, surely?? :o ;D
It's a real piece from today's Daily Heil.

He really tells it like it is!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:35:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 03:45:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 12:58:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 17, 2016, 12:41:06 AM
He hasn't a f**king Scooby Doo!!!
Unfortunately, unlike with his unwanted sexual advances to women, Trump won't be able to be headed off at the pass this time.
Old Mr Trump sure had us fooled for a while. Well, a week,
The mastermind of an elite special interest  against american workers 

Mr Edell sure had us fooled for a while. He says that climate change is a myth. He's working for the Kochs, the ****

Well well if it isn't our friend the KKK, Mr Bannon is a f**king nazi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ozIHomn8Q

Britain's NUMBER ONE columnist turns both barrels on those idiot environmentalists today, and boy does he nail it! Stand by for some good, old-fashioned COMMON SENSE!

FRACK OFF, ENVIRONMENTALISTS!

JEREMY HOPKISS AT LARGE - BRITAIN'S NUMBER ONE!

So the moaning PC liberal fascists are still moaning.

Moaning about "the environment", now.

They say fracking is dangerous. They say the planet is "undergoing man-made climate change that will destroy the lives of countless millions of people".

Well I've got news for you whinging lefties - you haven't a clue what you're talking about! You can't spell "environmentalist" without "mentalist"!

Fracking is good for the environment. It releases natural carbons into the ground from which we all benefit. There's no evidence whatsoever that it has damaged people's water, and no amount of propaganda from tree-hugging crusties changes that fact, because it's a FACT. End of.

Now, if you want a real scandal about what's in your water, take fluoride. Fluoride is a mind-controlling chemical that is put in your water as a thought control technique. The sneering lefties are literally trying to brainwash you and your children!

There's also no evidence that humans are warming up the planet. Who created the Earth? God, that's who (although of course the Godless anti-religious pinko fascists deny his existence).
Do people really think that us humans can actually influence Mother Nature? What stupidity! What arrogance!

The fact is, the planet is going through one of its healthy warming cycles. And that's good - it means cheap holidays for you, me, and everybody else. No longer will we have to go to Magaluf or Torremolinos to get away to the sun. We can can just go to Bognor Regis instead. And people say a warmer planet is a bad thing!

Donald Trump has it right. He has appointed Myron Ebell, a man who actually understands real science, as opposed to the fake, politically-driven fake "science" being peddled in lefty liberal universities the world over, as his head of the Environmental Protection Agency in the US. I hope Ebell winds the damn thing up and destroys the EPA like Maggie Thatcher heroically destroyed the protected, cosseted coal miners in this country in the 1980s.

Our environment doesn't need protection. It needs to be run by efficient, wealth creating, private firms. We need to be protected from the politically correct liberal elite tree huggers who want to send us back to the dark ages.

Trump has it right. We need to burn more coal. We need to burn more fossil fuels. Trump is going to being the jobs back to coal mining areas. Carbon dioxide is a life-giving natural substance which benefits everybody.

So, I have a message for all you miserable, whining, tree hugging SJWs who want me to freeze to death in my own house on winter nights. Frack off!

Burn, baby, burn!

This HAS to be an Onion-type piece of satire, surely?? :o ;D
It's a real piece from today's Daily Heil.

He really tells it like it is!

Seriously?

Fluoride mind control? People cannot seriously impact the environment? Fracking releases beneficial carbons into the ground? More greenhouse gases are good?

Guy is a f**king moron.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 04:19:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 03:45:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 12:58:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 17, 2016, 12:41:06 AM
He hasn't a f**king Scooby Doo!!!
Unfortunately, unlike with his unwanted sexual advances to women, Trump won't be able to be headed off at the pass this time.
Old Mr Trump sure had us fooled for a while. Well, a week,
The mastermind of an elite special interest  against american workers 

Mr Edell sure had us fooled for a while. He says that climate change is a myth. He's working for the Kochs, the ****

Well well if it isn't our friend the KKK, Mr Bannon is a f**king nazi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ozIHomn8Q

Britain's NUMBER ONE columnist turns both barrels on those idiot environmentalists today, and boy does he nail it! Stand by for some good, old-fashioned COMMON SENSE!

FRACK OFF, ENVIRONMENTALISTS!

JEREMY HOPKISS AT LARGE - BRITAIN'S NUMBER ONE!

So the moaning PC liberal fascists are still moaning.

Moaning about "the environment", now.

They say fracking is dangerous. They say the planet is "undergoing man-made climate change that will destroy the lives of countless millions of people".

Well I've got news for you whinging lefties - you haven't a clue what you're talking about! You can't spell "environmentalist" without "mentalist"!

Fracking is good for the environment. It releases natural carbons into the ground from which we all benefit. There's no evidence whatsoever that it has damaged people's water, and no amount of propaganda from tree-hugging crusties changes that fact, because it's a FACT. End of.

Now, if you want a real scandal about what's in your water, take fluoride. Fluoride is a mind-controlling chemical that is put in your water as a thought control technique. The sneering lefties are literally trying to brainwash you and your children!

There's also no evidence that humans are warming up the planet. Who created the Earth? God, that's who (although of course the Godless anti-religious pinko fascists deny his existence).
Do people really think that us humans can actually influence Mother Nature? What stupidity! What arrogance!

The fact is, the planet is going through one of its healthy warming cycles. And that's good - it means cheap holidays for you, me, and everybody else. No longer will we have to go to Magaluf or Torremolinos to get away to the sun. We can can just go to Bognor Regis instead. And people say a warmer planet is a bad thing!

Donald Trump has it right. He has appointed Myron Ebell, a man who actually understands real science, as opposed to the fake, politically-driven fake "science" being peddled in lefty liberal universities the world over, as his head of the Environmental Protection Agency in the US. I hope Ebell winds the damn thing up and destroys the EPA like Maggie Thatcher heroically destroyed the protected, cosseted coal miners in this country in the 1980s.

Our environment doesn't need protection. It needs to be run by efficient, wealth creating, private firms. We need to be protected from the politically correct liberal elite tree huggers who want to send us back to the dark ages.

Trump has it right. We need to burn more coal. We need to burn more fossil fuels. Trump is going to being the jobs back to coal mining areas. Carbon dioxide is a life-giving natural substance which benefits everybody.

So, I have a message for all you miserable, whining, tree hugging SJWs who want me to freeze to death in my own house on winter nights. Frack off!

Burn, baby, burn!
Jezza has written a short incisive piece for the Daily Telegraph since the Daily Heil doesn't pay him enough as a subcontractor.

Myron Ebell has devoted his LIFE to supporting UK house prices and the values the Daily Heil stands for viz big tits and incisive political commentary for the man on the Clapham diesel powered omnibus

Nigel Farage is our only link to the Empire of Trump and the coal that will save our economy. The Socialist/Trotskyist Treasury with its forecasts of £100bn in deficits due to Brexit is an enemy of the people. Unfortunately at the Torygraph we hate our own miners so we will gloss over this cognitive dissonace with a look at Khloe Kardashian's arse which we copied from Instagram.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 17, 2016, 04:22:29 PM
The best bit is where he says this

QuoteI hope Ebell winds the damn thing up and destroys the EPA like Maggie Thatcher heroically destroyed the protected, cosseted coal miners in this country in the 1980s.

and then says this

QuoteTrump is going to being the jobs back to coal mining areas. Carbon dioxide is a life-giving natural substance which benefits everybody.

Never been on the Daily Mail site - is this for real?

These are terrible days. The destruction of rationality will lead to a new Dark Age - this time with nuclear weapons. I've long been a proponent of the view that the world is substantially better off than it has ever been - mortality rates, less people in abject poverty, less global conflict (and it is actually less than at any time in world history) and that the real problem is that news cycles and modern media exaggerate the extent of conflict.

However, there are people and platforms that are actually willing this into being. I don't care how badly treated you feel you have been treated by the economy and the establishment - the world is a living entity and science has proved indisputably that human activity is endangering that entity, though it is far more likely that we will destroy ourselves first. How people on the right, who claim to have faith, could ignore the unique responsibility we have on a global scale to protect the planet for our children, is beyond me - it is the inverse of the Gospel of Jesus.

My son is 5. The decisions made in the next 4 years will determine his quality of life far more than any school I can afford to put him in, any morals I can impart to him, any action I could take to protect him from the iniquities of this world. Someone posted an article from Noam Chomsky the other day in which he posited that the present day Republican Party is the most dangerous political organisation that has ever existed. I normally spurn views like that. But it is harder and harder to do.

It's not dark yet, but it's getting there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 04:47:47 PM
Evangelical christianity has to be neutered. They are Trumps biggest voting bloc and why Pence is VP. They believe climate change is a myth. The Kochs love their ignorance  . I don't know how it can be done but those people havé to be re-educated.   The  Ashers bakery people come fRom the same gene pool.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 05:29:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:59:30 PM

Guy is a f**king moron.

Quote from: easytiger95 on November 17, 2016, 04:22:29 PM

Never been on the Daily Mail site - is this for real?
Just wait until you see his piece on "the intellectual fallacy at the heart of the professional racism-accusation movement" - it'll have you PC cucks frothing at the mouth!

I love people who use the word "fallacy" to try and win arguments - it proves they're really intelligent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 05:45:32 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/hate-crimes-are-up-but-the-government-isnt-keeping-good-track-of-them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 05:45:32 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/hate-crimes-are-up-but-the-government-isnt-keeping-good-track-of-them
"American nationalists", also known as "white nationalists", also known as white supremacists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 05:56:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 05:45:32 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/hate-crimes-are-up-but-the-government-isnt-keeping-good-track-of-them
"American nationalists", also known as "white nationalists", also known as white supremacists.
I prefer black supremacy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_y6nFjoVp4

The Alt right are Nazis
Nothing superior about them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 17, 2016, 06:03:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 05:45:32 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/hate-crimes-are-up-but-the-government-isnt-keeping-good-track-of-them
"American nationalists", also known as "white nationalists", also known as white supremacists.

Thinking about Whitey's earlier post on tradesmen etc, what would be the typical demographics of these 'supremacists'?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 17, 2016, 06:30:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 03:51:14 PM

It's a real piece from today's Daily Heil.

He really tells it like it is!

Seriously?


Not really

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22JEREMY+HOPKISS%22&num=100&safe=off&filter=0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:11:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 17, 2016, 06:03:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 05:45:32 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/hate-crimes-are-up-but-the-government-isnt-keeping-good-track-of-them
"American nationalists", also known as "white nationalists", also known as white supremacists.

Thinking about Whitey's earlier post on tradesmen etc, what would be the typical demographics of these 'supremacists'?
The Anti Defamation League reckons there are about 250,000 of them
https://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/2016-the-choice-hate-speech-intensifies-since-trump-won-the-election-180840470.html

http://www.adl.org/sp/stephen-bannon-backgrounder/bannon-backgrounder.html#.WC4OnIWcFfw
Numerous well-known white supremacists weighed in on President-elect Trump's appointment of Bannon as his chief strategist. David Duke called the selection of Bannon "excellent," adding that Bannon was "basically creating the ideological aspects of where we're going." Peter Brimelow, who runs the racist site VDare, said that the Bannon hire was "amazing."  Jared Taylor of American Renaissance and Brad Griffin who runs the Occidental Dissent website both said that Bannon would help hold Trump to his campaign rhetoric on immigration and other issues.  Rocky Suhayda of the American Nazi Party voiced the same view.  In addition, Bannon has reportedly reached out to far-right figure and French political activist Marine Le Pen. She tweeted that he had invited her to work together with the new Trump administration.

Many of the Breitbart headlines published under Bannon's tenure illustrate the website's virulently anti-Muslim, misogynistic, worldview, including: "Planned Parenthood's Body Count Under Cecile Richards is Up to Half a Holocaust," "Would You Rather Your Child Had Feminism or Cancer?" and "Political Correctness Protects Muslim Rape Culture." As Bannon's defenders have pointed out, these headlines are designed to attract attention and readers, and are not necessarily evidence that Bannon himself is an anti-Semite, a misogynist or an anti-Muslim bigot.
However, under Bannon, Breitbart News has provided a platform for anti-Muslim extremists such as Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer and others to advocate their agendas. More recently, the website published a number of articles attacking the family of Capt. Humayun Khan, who died while serving in Iraq, and accusing his father Khizr Khan of having "deep ties to the government of Saudi Arabia—and to international Islamist investors." Advocating for the Muslim immigration ban, which president-elect Trump suggested during his presidential campaign, the website called it an "'Extraordinary, Brilliant' Move" and published articles defending its constitutionality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 17, 2016, 09:46:16 PM
When I watched Idiocracy a few years ago I didn't realise it was a documentary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 17, 2016, 10:05:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 05:29:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:59:30 PM

Guy is a f**king moron.

Quote from: easytiger95 on November 17, 2016, 04:22:29 PM

Never been on the Daily Mail site - is this for real?


Just wait until you see his piece on "the intellectual fallacy at the heart of the professional racism-accusation movement" - it'll have you PC cucks frothing at the mouth!

I love people who use the word "fallacy" to try and win arguments - it proves they're really intelligent.


You may have just invented a new fallacy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election
Throw up a few numbers

Anyway the main point is chaos. And who wants chaos
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:42:56 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/opinions/trump-supporters-why-vote/?utm_term=.80a77bb93997
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 12:41:16 AM
https://twitter.com/StephLauren/status/799113486878052353
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 18, 2016, 01:04:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon

You must be watching a different interview, IMO it was quite close but he maybe shaded it on points.  He definitely wasn't bitchslapped.*

*It saddens me that this is the case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 01:14:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 18, 2016, 01:04:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon

You must be watching a different interview, IMO it was quite close but he maybe shaded it on points.  He definitely wasn't bitchslapped.*

*It saddens me that this is the case.

Shouting over your questioner means winning a debate these days, apparently.

I must apply for a job at Breitbart and go in and just shout constantly over the interviewers.

I'M SHOUTING, THEREFORE I'M WINNING!!!!!

CAN YOU NOT HEAR ME???

WHAT IF I SHOUT A BIT LOUDER???!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 17, 2016, 10:05:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2016, 05:29:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2016, 03:59:30 PM

Guy is a f**king moron.

Quote from: easytiger95 on November 17, 2016, 04:22:29 PM

Never been on the Daily Mail site - is this for real?


Just wait until you see his piece on "the intellectual fallacy at the heart of the professional racism-accusation movement" - it'll have you PC cucks frothing at the mouth!

I love people who use the word "fallacy" to try and win arguments - it proves they're really intelligent.


You may have just invented a new fallacy
I've fallen foul of the fallacy fallacy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 01:51:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon
Yiannopoulos is also a paedophile protector, by the way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 06:05:14 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 18, 2016, 01:04:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon

You must be watching a different interview, IMO it was quite close but he maybe shaded it on points.  He definitely wasn't bitchslapped.*

*It saddens me that this is the case.
I thought she had smacht over him at the end. He was throwing out words. She wasnt buying his shtick about it being satirical.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 06:06:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 01:51:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon
Yiannopoulos is also a paedophile protector, by the way.
The I am a gay Jew so I cannot be a Nazi fallacy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 18, 2016, 09:50:36 AM
QuoteQuote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon
Yiannopoulos is also a paedophile protector, by the way.

That was amazing - feelings rather than facts have ruled America for the last 30 years ;) ;)

It's all a big wind up and a joke now so stop being offended please

Post fact truth is a great phrase
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 18, 2016, 09:50:36 AM
QuoteQuote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon
Yiannopoulos is also a paedophile protector, by the way.

That was amazing - feelings rather than facts have ruled America for the last 30 years ;) ;)

It's all a big wind up and a joke now so stop being offended please

Post fact truth is a great phrase
I wonder who is pulling the strings at Breitbart

Meanwhile https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/703387702998278144
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 12:13:42 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/11/17/facebook-fake-news-writer-i-think-donald-trump-is-in-the-white-house-because-of-me/?tid=sm_tw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omagh_gael on November 18, 2016, 12:16:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 06:06:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 01:51:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon
Yiannopoulos is also a paedophile protector, by the way.
The I am a gay Jew so I cannot be a Nazi fallacy

Forget his politics. Is that possibly the most stylish comb over ever?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 12:17:20 PM
https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/799581753056854016
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 01:18:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 18, 2016, 09:50:36 AM
QuoteQuote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 11:36:26 PM
Out of his depth and bitchslapped
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon
Yiannopoulos is also a paedophile protector, by the way.

That was amazing - feelings rather than facts have ruled America for the last 30 years ;) ;)

It's all a big wind up and a joke now so stop being offended please

Post fact truth is a great phrase
I wonder who is pulling the strings at Breitbart

Meanwhile https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/703387702998278144

A racist AG appointed as well... nice start!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 18, 2016, 01:55:41 PM
The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is on the chopping block.

Weeks after the fraud at Wells Fargo was exposed.

So much for protecting the regular working man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 18, 2016, 01:56:25 PM
Yep.....Trump doesn't give a fvck who he offends.

The crybabies would have been traumatized by whoever he appointed so it doesn't really matter

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 18, 2016, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 18, 2016, 01:56:25 PM
Yep.....Trump doesn't give a fvck who he offends.

The crybabies would have been traumatized by whoever he appointed so it doesn't really matter

Well sure in that case, he should go all out and appoint David Duke... if it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 02:40:09 PM
This is a mural in Vilnius:

(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/948C/production/_92482083_screenshot2016-11-17at16.43.51.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 18, 2016, 03:01:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

http://vidmax.com/video/141315-Who-are-the-violent-ones-Compilation-shows-Donald-Trump-supporters-being-systematically-attacked-while-the-liberal-media-blames-them


(This was before the election)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 03:11:15 PM
Incredible scenes! The whinging snowflakes are going to be absolutely frothing at the mouth when they read how Jezza has called them out as the pussies they are!

THE LONG AND SHAMEFUL HISTORY OF "GENERATION SNOWFLAKE"

BRITAIN'S NUMBER ONE - JEREMY HOPKISS AT LARGE - RIGHT BECAUSE HE'S RIGHT-WING!

They say "Generation Snowflake" is a new phenomenon. That it only exists due to the internet, where delicate, easily offended PC lefty liberals who hide behind their keyboards and who rarely stray out into the real world whine like babies when they're called a name or when they can't get their way.

But we all know Generation Snowflake is not a new thing. It's as old as time itself. Delicate snowflakes, moaning and whinging like the pathetic, spoilt little darlings they are, have always been around.

Snowflake is just the latest trendy term for what these people really are - pussies. And history proves it.

The feminazis, the "anti-racists", the sneering "equality" people, the poisonous rhetoric of the pathetic PC "identity politics" brigade, they have a long and shameful history.

The Democratic party in the US, the Labour party here, they are just such two examples. The Democrats have completely embraced this laughable, wooly nonsense, and yet they are the party of slavery. Never mind that whinging about slavery constituted an attack on private property rights.

The Suffragette movement were quite literally pussies, moaning because women couldn't vote. Not happy because you can't vote? Well don't moan, do something about it! But the one thing you should never do is to throw yourself under a bloody horse! How are you ever going to get to vote by doing that, stupid?!

The "Civil Rights Act" in America was a pointer to the dystopian liberal world that was to be foisted upon good, decent, hardworking people from the 1960s on. Real freedom was destroyed.
Whites were forced to share the same buses as blacks. White businesses were forced to serve blacks. Why? All because of the absurd anti-freedom PC notion that you shouldn't be allowed "discriminate" against whoever you want.

Then the same people who had snowflaked their way to their ridiculous dystopia of "equality" started protesting about the Vietnam War, defending communists. I bet they didn't see the irony. The PC brigade never do.

In the 1980s we had to listen to the pathetic, interfering busybodies of the "anti-apartheid" movement whining about the blacks not being able to vote in South Africa. Well, "anti-apartheid" people, I didn't see you protesting because children can't vote, you hypocrites! While you were at it, why didn't you protest about dead people not being able to vote (although Crooked Hillary Clinton did a very good job of attracting the dead to vote for her (look it up if you don't believe me!).

The "anti-apartheid" luvvies protested about our rugby teams, our cricket teams and our musicians going to South Africa. They protested about South African oranges being sold here. Telling us what to think. Well thank heavens for the likes of Queen playing Sun City (it must have awfully confusing for the PC brigade when the gay Freddie Mercury didn't support them).

In 2003, more anti-war pussies protested about us going to war in Iraq. The whinging liberal elites at the BBC tried to claim to that the evidence against Saddam Hussein was fake. Those protestors and the BBC didn't care that Saddam Hussein had planned 9/11. They didn't care when planes flown by Muslim scum brought down the World Trade Center. They wrung their cowardly hands and said we should do nothing. Morality and truth meant nothing to these people.

And recently in Northern Ireland, right here in Britain, the gays threw their toys out of the pram because the owners of a bakery didn't want to bake a cake for them. Oh, such delicate snowflakes. This is the appalling reality of what these people have brought upon us. The owners of businesses aren't even allowed decide who they want to do business with and who they don't want to business with. That is an attack on freedom.

And now in America, the snowflakes are out again, protesting against democracy because Donald Trump won. Attacking freedom again.

It is an attack on the very truth that is at the heart of the human race.

How do we know this? Through science, science that Britain, and Britain alone, gave to the world (amazing, really, isn't it, how much we've given to the world, you'd think they'd be grateful). When Charles Darwin wrote about natural selection, he was not only uncovering the unvarnished truth about the human species, but he was making a statement of good, old-fashioned, British common sense. Life is a survival of the fittest. Those that are strong prosper. Those who are weak fall by the wayside. We should celebrate that, not deny it.

The sneering PC brigade who preach about "equality", "respect" and "fairness" are so thick that they can't even realise the glaringly obvious intellectual fallacy at the heart of their cancerous ideology. But Darwin did. And real people today do.

Donald Trump is the very epitome of the survival of the fittest. He's an alpha male. Men have been told over and over again by the metropolitan liberal elite feminazis to suppress our masculinity. Well guess what - Donald Trump and the American people sent these whinging bullies home with a flea in their ear and fought back for the little guy. America's next president isn't going to be a preening, sneering apologist like the pathetic Obama. He's going to stand tall and stand proud for the values that made America great, and he's going to make America great again, just like Brexit will make Britain great again.

The intellectually bankrupt professional racism-accusation brigade won't stop at Trump. They say Steve Bannon, a fearless exposer of the truth, a man who tells it like it is with out fear or favour, is an "anti-semite". How could Bannon be an anti-semite when he hired Jews?

How refreshing to see Milo Yiannopoulos, a gay Jew and one of the finest journalists in the world today, a man who knows what he is and revels in it, proudly calling himself a "f**got", destroy the argument of hand-wringing lefty liberal Channel 4 news host Cathy Newman last night. There should be no such thing as offence. People should be able to call others what ever they want and to tell it like it is.

The PC brigade just want to throw names around. I've been laughably called a racist by others. Pathetic.

If I call somebody "ginger" because they have red hair, or "chinny", because they have a big chin, is that racist too?

They said Ron Atkinson was a racist when he called Marcel Desailly a "lazy, thick ******" (a word they won't even print on this page - more censorship!). Was he wrong? It was his opinion. And these days, if your opinion isn't politically correct, YOU CAN'T SAY IT! And like Bannon and Jews, how could Atkinson have been racist when he signed black players?

Even better, wait for it, the PC bedwetters now say that calling Michelle Obama an "ape in heels" is "racist"! Do they even know what racism is? Racism is simply regarding one race as superior to another. If I call Jeremy Corbyn "an ape", is that racist? Of course not! So how could calling Michelle Obama "an ape in heels" be racist?

Keep going down this road of politically correct nonsense that the pussy snowflakes are driving us down and I'll tell you where we're on the road to. We're on the road to Nazi Germany, that's where.

Well, guess what, I'd rather have someone who grabs pussies in the White House than have a pussy in the White House.

The alt-right, Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, Marine Le Pen and others who proudly stand with us, we're bringing real freedom for real people back. And you snowflakes had better get used to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
How many attacks,  Whitey ? It looks like a clear dog whistle to law and order types.  I see elsewhere they are blamed on Soros. How much is fake? The misogyny is not. The anti Latino stuff is not. The antisemitism is not.

I feel sorry for decent conservatives like you and Stew. The next 4 years will be hell. Mayo might look very attractive 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 03:14:16 PM
*The above is satire by the way (after yesterday's little confusion - it is increasingly difficult to determine whether the likes of Jezza are real or not).

I don't actually think what Jeremy Hopkiss thinks, I think the opposite, and as Stewart Lee would say, it is a shame to have to explain that.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 03:35:06 PM
Trump is planning a 'Victory Tour': http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/18/donald-trump-planning-victory-tour-of-states-he-won-in-election/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/18/donald-trump-planning-victory-tour-of-states-he-won-in-election/)

He is planning to continue holding campaign rallies.

I suppose he just thinks it is the Reich thing to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 03:39:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 03:35:06 PM
Trump is planning a 'Victory Tour': http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/18/donald-trump-planning-victory-tour-of-states-he-won-in-election/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/18/donald-trump-planning-victory-tour-of-states-he-won-in-election/)

He is planning to continue holding campaign rallies.

I suppose he just thinks it is the Reich thing to do.
Trump's political philosophy is all about the "Third (Reich) Way".

But Jeremy Hopkiss says the Clintons are Nazis because Bill talked about the "Third Way" and employed Robert Reich as his Labour Secretary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mac2 on November 18, 2016, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
How many attacks,  Whitey ? It looks like a clear dog whistle to law and order types.  I see elsewhere they are blamed on Soros. How much is fake? The misogyny is not. The anti Latino stuff is not. The antisemitism is not.

I feel sorry for decent conservatives like you and Stew. The next 4 years will be hell. Mayo might look very attractive
Dunno Mayo's a fairly dark place right now too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 18, 2016, 03:56:36 PM
Quote from: Mac2 on November 18, 2016, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
How many attacks,  Whitey ? It looks like a clear dog whistle to law and order types.  I see elsewhere they are blamed on Soros. How much is fake? The misogyny is not. The anti Latino stuff is not. The antisemitism is not.

I feel sorry for decent conservatives like you and Stew. The next 4 years will be hell. Mayo might look very attractive
Dunno Mayo's a fairly dark place right now too.
]

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/1118/832626-us-job-searches-to-ireland-treble-after-trump-win/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 04:13:53 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 18, 2016, 03:56:36 PM
Quote from: Mac2 on November 18, 2016, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
How many attacks,  Whitey ? It looks like a clear dog whistle to law and order types.  I see elsewhere they are blamed on Soros. How much is fake? The misogyny is not. The anti Latino stuff is not. The antisemitism is not.

I feel sorry for decent conservatives like you and Stew. The next 4 years will be hell. Mayo might look very attractive
Dunno Mayo's a fairly dark place right now too.
]

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/1118/832626-us-job-searches-to-ireland-treble-after-trump-win/
With all the countries the US has invaded, bombed or supported coups in since World War II, maybe Ireland should ban all US immigrants, at least until we can figure out what the hell is happening?

Going by General Flynn's logic, fear of American immigrants is entirely rational.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 04:23:03 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

I certainly don't want it to be so.

But it is increasingly looking like it.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 04:30:15 PM
Quote from: Mac2 on November 18, 2016, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
How many attacks,  Whitey ? It looks like a clear dog whistle to law and order types.  I see elsewhere they are blamed on Soros. How much is fake? The misogyny is not. The anti Latino stuff is not. The antisemitism is not.

I feel sorry for decent conservatives like you and Stew. The next 4 years will be hell. Mayo might look very attractive
Dunno Mayo's a fairly dark place right now too.
There are no internment camps for tinkers like there will be for Muslims in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 18, 2016, 04:46:21 PM
The attacks are very real (and under reported).

I'm hoping they attack someone who is carrying a concealed weapon...could get very interesting

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2016/11/17/heres-a-list-of-completely-substantiated-and-underreported-attacks-on-trump-supporters/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 18, 2016, 04:46:21 PM
The attacks are very real (and under reported).

I'm hoping they attack someone who is carrying a concealed weapon...could get very interesting

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2016/11/17/heres-a-list-of-completely-substantiated-and-underreported-attacks-on-trump-supporters/

Don't worry, from the 20th January onwards you will have all the shootings you want.

Remembers the Nazis were the victims, of attacks by Communists, at least according to the Nazis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 18, 2016, 05:15:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN


Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, named after a Confederate general and the Confederate president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 05:16:43 PM
Seeing as history appears to be repeating itself, what predictions can we make?

E.g. How long until there is some sort of pact with the Soviets Russians?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 05:26:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 18, 2016, 04:46:21 PM
The attacks are very real (and under reported).

I'm hoping they attack someone who is carrying a concealed weapon...could get very interesting

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2016/11/17/heres-a-list-of-completely-substantiated-and-underreported-attacks-on-trump-supporters/
Are they orchestrated ?
2.6 million tweets were
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN

In terms of political outlook and analysis I agree very much with Michael Moore but find his activism insufferable.

However I seen a clip of him the other day where he said that Trump had no ideology and was a fascist almost in the same breath. So which is it Michael and everyone else for that matter? (clue..its the former)

I really wish people would think about what they are saying before they feed their outrage monster.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 05:34:16 PM
Trump has offered Mike Flynn the position of National Security Advisor.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/michael-flynn-twitter-226091 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/michael-flynn-twitter-226091)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN

In terms of political outlook and analysis I agree very much with Michael Moore but find his activism insufferable.

However I seen a clip of him the other day where he said that Trump had no ideology and was a fascist almost in the same breath. So which is it Michael and everyone else for that matter? (clue..its the former)

I really wish people would think about what they are saying before they feed their outrage monster.
Trump is both ideology-free (we have to assume, given his rhetoric about Wall Street but the reality of him wanting to implement the most regulation-free financial system since the 1920s) and has campaigned on a fascist platform (rounding up and deporting 11 million and banning all immigration by people of a particular religion, threatening to jail political opponents based on no evidence, that's kind of fascist, you know).

One can be both, and it's pretty fair comment to say he is.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 18, 2016, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 18, 2016, 01:56:25 PM
Yep.....Trump doesn't give a fvck who he offends.

The crybabies would have been traumatized by whoever he appointed so it doesn't really matter


It matters, the decisions he makes matter to the world.

He needs to come to the center and be a President for all the people and the whole of the country.

Anybody that thinks this man is an idiot, is himself/herself, an idiot!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 06:09:19 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 18, 2016, 01:56:25 PM
Yep.....Trump doesn't give a fvck who he offends.

The crybabies would have been traumatized by whoever he appointed so it doesn't really matter


It matters, the decisions he makes matter to the world.

He needs to come to the center and be a President for all the people and the whole of the country.

Anybody that thinks this man is an idiot, is himself/herself, an idiot!
He has the attention span of a 3 year old. He may not be able to read. He has a vicious temper. He is unable to control his Twitter use.

But the Tea Party did purge all the grown ups.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 06:14:12 PM
Trump is not ideology free. He clearly thinks the 0.1% need tax cuts more than the clowns who voted for him. He thinks climate change is a scam devised by China. He is cool with KKK 2.0 as strategy head. Americans are being taken for a ride. It reminds me of Nigel Falange and his morning after Brexit interview. Lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 18, 2016, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 18, 2016, 06:09:19 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 18, 2016, 01:56:25 PM
Yep.....Trump doesn't give a fvck who he offends.

The crybabies would have been traumatized by whoever he appointed so it doesn't really matter


It matters, the decisions he makes matter to the world.

He needs to come to the center and be a President for all the people and the whole of the country.

Anybody that thinks this man is an idiot, is himself/herself, an idiot!
He has the attention span of a 3 year old. He may not be able to read. He has a vicious temper. He is unable to control his Twitter use.

But the Tea Party did purge all the grown ups.

He is a genius, he turned a loan of a million into a four billion dollar fortune!

If you think this man cannot read you yourself are the idiot you claim he is! You are no idiot, you are speaking here from a point of pain.

Clinton's temper is legendary seafoid, you are correct on his Twitter use.

Tea Party, nest of bastards, some of whom are racists scum, wealthy scum at that!






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 06:23:24 PM
David Duke
‏@DrDavidDuke
Bannon, Flynn, Sessions -- Great! Senate must demand that Sessions as AG stop the massive institutional race discrimination against whites!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN

In terms of political outlook and analysis I agree very much with Michael Moore but find his activism insufferable.

However I seen a clip of him the other day where he said that Trump had no ideology and was a fascist almost in the same breath. So which is it Michael and everyone else for that matter? (clue..its the former)

I really wish people would think about what they are saying before they feed their outrage monster.
Trump is both ideology-free (we have to assume, given his rhetoric about Wall Street but the reality of him wanting to implement the most regulation-free financial system since the 1920s) and has campaigned on a fascist platform (rounding up and deporting 11 million and banning all immigration by people of a particular religion, threatening to jail political opponents based on no evidence, that's kind of fascist, you know).

One can be both, and it's pretty fair comment to say he is.

No you cant be both

And as if to give an example of this your contradicting yourself in the one post.... How could a fascist be in favour a deregulated Wall st?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 18, 2016, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Trump is not a Nazi

Oh yeah?

(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/Trump%20Nazi%20salute_zpspkdzh3ep.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/Trump%20Nazi%20salute_zpspkdzh3ep.png.html)

(I'm applying the Breitbart/alt.right standard of proof here, OK?)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 06:36:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN

In terms of political outlook and analysis I agree very much with Michael Moore but find his activism insufferable.

However I seen a clip of him the other day where he said that Trump had no ideology and was a fascist almost in the same breath. So which is it Michael and everyone else for that matter? (clue..its the former)

I really wish people would think about what they are saying before they feed their outrage monster.
Trump is both ideology-free (we have to assume, given his rhetoric about Wall Street but the reality of him wanting to implement the most regulation-free financial system since the 1920s) and has campaigned on a fascist platform (rounding up and deporting 11 million and banning all immigration by people of a particular religion, threatening to jail political opponents based on no evidence, that's kind of fascist, you know).

One can be both, and it's pretty fair comment to say he is.

No you cant be both

And as if to give an example of this your contradicting yourself in the one post.... How could a fascist be in favour a deregulated Wall st?
You give far too much credit to fascism as political ideology. Of course you can be both - fascism is inherently ideology free itself - pretty much its only inherent narrative is to blame others for everything, just like Trump does.

Jeff Sessions' appointment should be a real leap forward for the Trump team in terms of race relations - this is the man who once said "I thought the Ku Klux Klan were alright until I heard they smoked pot".

So the Trump administration won't be returning to the same old failed policies of the War on Drugs, then... ;D

Young black men can relax, Jeff's got their back...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeff-sessions-attorney-general-marijuana-justice-department-anti-drug-laws-a7425511.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 06:37:39 PM
Percent Of #WhiteGenocide Influencers Who Follow The Presidential Candidates On Twitter

67.5% Trump
17.7% Cruz
5.7% Clinton
4% Sanders
2% Kasich

Source: Fortune analysis of each candidate's Twitter profile

http://fortune.com/donald-trump-white-supremacist-genocide/ (http://fortune.com/donald-trump-white-supremacist-genocide/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 06:36:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN

In terms of political outlook and analysis I agree very much with Michael Moore but find his activism insufferable.

However I seen a clip of him the other day where he said that Trump had no ideology and was a fascist almost in the same breath. So which is it Michael and everyone else for that matter? (clue..its the former)

I really wish people would think about what they are saying before they feed their outrage monster.
Trump is both ideology-free (we have to assume, given his rhetoric about Wall Street but the reality of him wanting to implement the most regulation-free financial system since the 1920s) and has campaigned on a fascist platform (rounding up and deporting 11 million and banning all immigration by people of a particular religion, threatening to jail political opponents based on no evidence, that's kind of fascist, you know).

One can be both, and it's pretty fair comment to say he is.

No you cant be both

And as if to give an example of this your contradicting yourself in the one post.... How could a fascist be in favour a deregulated Wall st?
You give far too much credit to fascism as political ideology. Of course you can be both - fascism is inherently ideology free itself - pretty much its only inherent narrative is to blame others for everything, just like Trump does.

Jeff Sessions' appointment should be a real leap forward for the Trump team in terms of race relations - this is the man who once said "I thought the Ku Klux Klan were alright until I heard they smoked pot".

So the Trump administration won't be returning to the same old failed policies of the War on Drugs, then... ;D

Young black men can relax, Jeff's got their back...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeff-sessions-attorney-general-marijuana-justice-department-anti-drug-laws-a7425511.html

Doesnt matter wether you think of it or what its based on, it is a political ideology. And a liberal free market economy is directly opposed to the ideals of facsim

Doesnt matter wehter youn like it or not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 18, 2016, 10:45:37 PM
Trump just settled the "Trump University" law suit. The plaintiffs settled for $25million. Trump is not admitting guilt off course! Goddamn those biased Mexican judges!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 12:33:58 AM
I don't think it's a free market economy. The US is a plutocracy. And when you get to the deflation stage the next stage is fascism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 11:20:15 AM
I don't believe that Trump can save the US economy. I would love to know what sort of payrises the Trump faction on here have been getting over the last 10 years. Have we got anyone in the richest 1% ?

The richest 1% of Americans own 50% of everything.
They earn 18% of everything.
And between 1975 and 2007 they captured 58% of all income gains in the US. It must be higher now. Let's say it's 65%
Basically via debt. So their share of income continues to increase at the expense of the schmucks who voted for Trump.
So if Trump wants to get interest rates up ordinary people need to get a bigger share of income.

But Trump's tax cuts will go 50% to the richest 0.1%
So basically there is NO WAY that bluecollar voters will see any improvement in their circumstances.
And without any improvement on Main St the economy cannot grow.
So it will crash.

150 million Americans will go to work on Monday and they might as well stay at home. There is no point in going to work. 
At this stage it doesn't matter what Wall St thinks either. It really doesn't matter. The system is the system.

If you want to do something coherent organise a strike before Trump goes to war.   

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-wall-street-bankers-231524

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VLVSegdOxQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 19, 2016, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 06:36:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN

In terms of political outlook and analysis I agree very much with Michael Moore but find his activism insufferable.

However I seen a clip of him the other day where he said that Trump had no ideology and was a fascist almost in the same breath. So which is it Michael and everyone else for that matter? (clue..its the former)

I really wish people would think about what they are saying before they feed their outrage monster.
Trump is both ideology-free (we have to assume, given his rhetoric about Wall Street but the reality of him wanting to implement the most regulation-free financial system since the 1920s) and has campaigned on a fascist platform (rounding up and deporting 11 million and banning all immigration by people of a particular religion, threatening to jail political opponents based on no evidence, that's kind of fascist, you know).

One can be both, and it's pretty fair comment to say he is.

No you cant be both

And as if to give an example of this your contradicting yourself in the one post.... How could a fascist be in favour a deregulated Wall st?
You give far too much credit to fascism as political ideology. Of course you can be both - fascism is inherently ideology free itself - pretty much its only inherent narrative is to blame others for everything, just like Trump does.

Jeff Sessions' appointment should be a real leap forward for the Trump team in terms of race relations - this is the man who once said "I thought the Ku Klux Klan were alright until I heard they smoked pot".

So the Trump administration won't be returning to the same old failed policies of the War on Drugs, then... ;D

Young black men can relax, Jeff's got their back...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeff-sessions-attorney-general-marijuana-justice-department-anti-drug-laws-a7425511.html

Doesnt matter wether you think of it or what its based on, it is a political ideology. And a liberal free market economy is directly opposed to the ideals of facsim

Doesnt matter wehter youn like it or not
Pinochet and every other US-backed fascist in South America were all heavily influenced by Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 03:35:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1ElL3BdwBw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 19, 2016, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 19, 2016, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 06:36:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN

In terms of political outlook and analysis I agree very much with Michael Moore but find his activism insufferable.

However I seen a clip of him the other day where he said that Trump had no ideology and was a fascist almost in the same breath. So which is it Michael and everyone else for that matter? (clue..its the former)

I really wish people would think about what they are saying before they feed their outrage monster.
Trump is both ideology-free (we have to assume, given his rhetoric about Wall Street but the reality of him wanting to implement the most regulation-free financial system since the 1920s) and has campaigned on a fascist platform (rounding up and deporting 11 million and banning all immigration by people of a particular religion, threatening to jail political opponents based on no evidence, that's kind of fascist, you know).

One can be both, and it's pretty fair comment to say he is.

No you cant be both

And as if to give an example of this your contradicting yourself in the one post.... How could a fascist be in favour a deregulated Wall st?
You give far too much credit to fascism as political ideology. Of course you can be both - fascism is inherently ideology free itself - pretty much its only inherent narrative is to blame others for everything, just like Trump does.

Jeff Sessions' appointment should be a real leap forward for the Trump team in terms of race relations - this is the man who once said "I thought the Ku Klux Klan were alright until I heard they smoked pot".

So the Trump administration won't be returning to the same old failed policies of the War on Drugs, then... ;D

Young black men can relax, Jeff's got their back...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeff-sessions-attorney-general-marijuana-justice-department-anti-drug-laws-a7425511.html

Doesnt matter wether you think of it or what its based on, it is a political ideology. And a liberal free market economy is directly opposed to the ideals of facsim

Doesnt matter wehter youn like it or not
Pinochet and every other US-backed fascist in South America were all heavily influenced by Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics.

Being a nationalist dictator does not make you a fascist, Pinochet included
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 05:06:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pabjqmYWGkM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 19, 2016, 05:14:01 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 19, 2016, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 19, 2016, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 06:36:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN

In terms of political outlook and analysis I agree very much with Michael Moore but find his activism insufferable.

However I seen a clip of him the other day where he said that Trump had no ideology and was a fascist almost in the same breath. So which is it Michael and everyone else for that matter? (clue..its the former)

I really wish people would think about what they are saying before they feed their outrage monster.
Trump is both ideology-free (we have to assume, given his rhetoric about Wall Street but the reality of him wanting to implement the most regulation-free financial system since the 1920s) and has campaigned on a fascist platform (rounding up and deporting 11 million and banning all immigration by people of a particular religion, threatening to jail political opponents based on no evidence, that's kind of fascist, you know).

One can be both, and it's pretty fair comment to say he is.

No you cant be both

And as if to give an example of this your contradicting yourself in the one post.... How could a fascist be in favour a deregulated Wall st?
You give far too much credit to fascism as political ideology. Of course you can be both - fascism is inherently ideology free itself - pretty much its only inherent narrative is to blame others for everything, just like Trump does.

Jeff Sessions' appointment should be a real leap forward for the Trump team in terms of race relations - this is the man who once said "I thought the Ku Klux Klan were alright until I heard they smoked pot".

So the Trump administration won't be returning to the same old failed policies of the War on Drugs, then... ;D

Young black men can relax, Jeff's got their back...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeff-sessions-attorney-general-marijuana-justice-department-anti-drug-laws-a7425511.html

Doesnt matter wether you think of it or what its based on, it is a political ideology. And a liberal free market economy is directly opposed to the ideals of facsim

Doesnt matter wehter youn like it or not
Pinochet and every other US-backed fascist in South America were all heavily influenced by Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics.

Being a nationalist dictator does not make you a fascist, Pinochet included
Pinochet wasn't a fascist? Keep taking the Kool Aid. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 05:38:26 PM
An awful lot of the current mess can be traced back to people like Milton Friedman, Thatcher and Reagan
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 08:05:43 PM
The US is a pretty young country. The Constitution is worshipped but it is mortal. they also worship the flag.
And the second amendment.

Because in 1770 a well regulated milita would do the job. But it didn't stop Trump, did it? Guns are useless against psy ops. So checks and balances are a thin reed against which to lean.

Arguably the Constitition had 2 historic existential challenges. The Civil war and Civil rights about a century later. Both were resolved but unsatisfactorily. The same rednecks voted for  an autocrat this time around. Civilisation is a thin veneer as well.
This is the third existential challenge. We just don't know how it will play out. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 19, 2016, 08:36:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 19, 2016, 05:14:01 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 19, 2016, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 19, 2016, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 06:36:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 18, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: stew on November 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
New York, NY, October 19, 2016 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Task Force on Harassment and Journalism today released a report detailing a troubling, year-long rise in anti-Semitic hate targeting journalists on Twitter, with data showing that the harassment has been driven by rhetoric in the 2016 presidential campaign and identifying some of the groups and individuals responsible

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

Maybe they should do a follow up report on all the Trump Supporters getting the living shit kicked out of them since the election

Matching history perfectly.

The culprits insist they are the victims and use the propaganda to up the attacks.

We must be due a night of long knives early in 2017?

Trump is not a Nazi no matter how many times you say it or want it to be so!

He was a democrat until about 2011, true story!

No he's just appointing confirmed racists and anti-semites to top posts in his administration. . .

He famously said:

"WHAT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GOT TO LOSE??!!!"

Turns out a fair bit!!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/jeff-sessions-unlikely-to-face-gop-opposition-in-the-senate?bftw&utm_term=.cnpnkKWp9#.sjNkMeAqN

In terms of political outlook and analysis I agree very much with Michael Moore but find his activism insufferable.

However I seen a clip of him the other day where he said that Trump had no ideology and was a fascist almost in the same breath. So which is it Michael and everyone else for that matter? (clue..its the former)

I really wish people would think about what they are saying before they feed their outrage monster.
Trump is both ideology-free (we have to assume, given his rhetoric about Wall Street but the reality of him wanting to implement the most regulation-free financial system since the 1920s) and has campaigned on a fascist platform (rounding up and deporting 11 million and banning all immigration by people of a particular religion, threatening to jail political opponents based on no evidence, that's kind of fascist, you know).

One can be both, and it's pretty fair comment to say he is.

No you cant be both

And as if to give an example of this your contradicting yourself in the one post.... How could a fascist be in favour a deregulated Wall st?
You give far too much credit to fascism as political ideology. Of course you can be both - fascism is inherently ideology free itself - pretty much its only inherent narrative is to blame others for everything, just like Trump does.

Jeff Sessions' appointment should be a real leap forward for the Trump team in terms of race relations - this is the man who once said "I thought the Ku Klux Klan were alright until I heard they smoked pot".

So the Trump administration won't be returning to the same old failed policies of the War on Drugs, then... ;D

Young black men can relax, Jeff's got their back...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeff-sessions-attorney-general-marijuana-justice-department-anti-drug-laws-a7425511.html

Doesnt matter wether you think of it or what its based on, it is a political ideology. And a liberal free market economy is directly opposed to the ideals of facsim

Doesnt matter wehter youn like it or not
Pinochet and every other US-backed fascist in South America were all heavily influenced by Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics.

Being a nationalist dictator does not make you a fascist, Pinochet included
Pinochet wasn't a fascist? Keep taking the Kool Aid. ;D
Oh right, well thats sealed it then, I apologise
Whats Kool Aid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 10:57:49 PM
The Swedish Chef graduated first in his class at West Point and is being mentioned for Department of Defense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCRwA93GZwQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 11:00:41 PM
Bob the Builder has never been involved in politics so he doesn't really know how to do it. Can we fix it ? Yes we can. But that was an Obama phrase, wasn't it? This week Bob has to drain the swamp.

He has drafted in a number of heavy hitters. Noddy will be in charge of national insecurity. Big Ears is not going to do anything about Climate change. The 3 bears will dismantle Financial regulation to make the system safer. Goldlilocks will leave her job at Breitbart and tell lies to everyone. Dora the explorer will be interned. The little matchgirl was one of Bob's biggest constituencies but she is a loser. She doesn't need a tax cut like Scrooge McDuck does.  The ugly duckling is a warmonger just like his father, Mr Potato Head. Aladdin and Sindbad will have to register.
Bob has the attention span of a gnat. He has been groping  Miss Pink Cat all night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 20, 2016, 01:38:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 11:00:41 PM
Bob the Builder has never been involved in politics so he doesn't really know how to do it. Can we fix it ? Yes we can. But that was an Obama phrase, wasn't it? This week Bob has to drain the swamp.

He has drafted in a number of heavy hitters. Noddy will be in charge of national insecurity. Big Ears is not going to do anything about Climate change. The 3 bears will dismantle Financial regulation to make the system safer. Goldlilocks will leave her job at Breitbart and tell lies to everyone. Dora the explorer will be interned. The little matchgirl was one of Bob's biggest constituencies but she is a loser. She doesn't need a tax cut like Scrooge McDuck does.  The ugly duckling is a warmonger just like his father, Mr Potato Head. Aladdin and Sindbad will have to register.
Bob has the attention span of a gnat. He has been groping  Miss Pink Cat all night.

The man has not spent one second in office but a lot of you have him wrecking the world.

I have no use for him but I will reserve judgement on him until he, ya know, does shit in office.

100 days, the first hundred days will be enough time to figure out if he is another useless dog like Obama or if he could be decent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 07:02:15 AM
Quote from: stew on November 20, 2016, 01:38:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 11:00:41 PM
Bob the Builder has never been involved in politics so he doesn't really know how to do it. Can we fix it ? Yes we can. But that was an Obama phrase, wasn't it? This week Bob has to drain the swamp.

He has drafted in a number of heavy hitters. Noddy will be in charge of national insecurity. Big Ears is not going to do anything about Climate change. The 3 bears will dismantle Financial regulation to make the system safer. Goldlilocks will leave her job at Breitbart and tell lies to everyone. Dora the explorer will be interned. The little matchgirl was one of Bob's biggest constituencies but she is a loser. She doesn't need a tax cut like Scrooge McDuck does.  The ugly duckling is a warmonger just like his father, Mr Potato Head. Aladdin and Sindbad will have to register.
Bob has the attention span of a gnat. He has been groping  Miss Pink Cat all night.

The man has not spent one second in office but a lot of you have him wrecking the world.

I have no use for him but I will reserve judgement on him until he, ya know, does shit in office.

100 days, the first hundred days will be enough time to figure out if he is another useless dog like Obama or if he could be decent.

Stew I'll save you the effort
He'll be worse than Obama
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 20, 2016, 12:00:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 07:02:15 AM
Quote from: stew on November 20, 2016, 01:38:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 11:00:41 PM
Bob the Builder has never been involved in politics so he doesn't really know how to do it. Can we fix it ? Yes we can. But that was an Obama phrase, wasn't it? This week Bob has to drain the swamp.

He has drafted in a number of heavy hitters. Noddy will be in charge of national insecurity. Big Ears is not going to do anything about Climate change. The 3 bears will dismantle Financial regulation to make the system safer. Goldlilocks will leave her job at Breitbart and tell lies to everyone. Dora the explorer will be interned. The little matchgirl was one of Bob's biggest constituencies but she is a loser. She doesn't need a tax cut like Scrooge McDuck does.  The ugly duckling is a warmonger just like his father, Mr Potato Head. Aladdin and Sindbad will have to register.
Bob has the attention span of a gnat. He has been groping  Miss Pink Cat all night.

The man has not spent one second in office but a lot of you have him wrecking the world.

I have no use for him but I will reserve judgement on him until he, ya know, does shit in office.

100 days, the first hundred days will be enough time to figure out if he is another useless dog like Obama or if he could be decent.

Stew I'll save you the effort
He'll be worse than Obama

That is nigh on impossible,we will see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 20, 2016, 01:46:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 11:00:41 PM
Bob the Builder has never been involved in politics so he doesn't really know how to do it. Can we fix it ? Yes we can. But that was an Obama phrase, wasn't it? This week Bob has to drain the swamp.

He has drafted in a number of heavy hitters. Noddy will be in charge of national insecurity. Big Ears is not going to do anything about Climate change. The 3 bears will dismantle Financial regulation to make the system safer. Goldlilocks will leave her job at Breitbart and tell lies to everyone. Dora the explorer will be interned. The little matchgirl was one of Bob's biggest constituencies but she is a loser. She doesn't need a tax cut like Scrooge McDuck does.  The ugly duckling is a warmonger just like his father, Mr Potato Head. Aladdin and Sindbad will have to register.
Bob has the attention span of a gnat. He has been groping  Miss Pink Cat all night.

His cabinet picks look like they could be Villians in an Austin Powers movie....Flynn looks particularly scary.....wonder where in Ireland his people are from?  Maybe the local councillor should invite him over for tea and some locally sourced brown bread with blackberry jam
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 20, 2016, 03:23:35 PM
He has Irish Catholic ancestry; his grandfather, also Charles Flynn, was born in 1889 in Blacklands, Fivemiletown, County Tyrone, and later settled in Rhode Island after emigrating to the United States in 1913.[16][17][18][
i
Source Wikipedia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 03:34:45 PM
A good few fruitcake Irish Americans in the cabinet

It just shows the importance of the wider culture in the development of the individual
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2016, 03:35:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 01:46:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 11:00:41 PM
Bob the Builder has never been involved in politics so he doesn't really know how to do it. Can we fix it ? Yes we can. But that was an Obama phrase, wasn't it? This week Bob has to drain the swamp.

He has drafted in a number of heavy hitters. Noddy will be in charge of national insecurity. Big Ears is not going to do anything about Climate change. The 3 bears will dismantle Financial regulation to make the system safer. Goldlilocks will leave her job at Breitbart and tell lies to everyone. Dora the explorer will be interned. The little matchgirl was one of Bob's biggest constituencies but she is a loser. She doesn't need a tax cut like Scrooge McDuck does.  The ugly duckling is a warmonger just like his father, Mr Potato Head. Aladdin and Sindbad will have to register.
Bob has the attention span of a gnat. He has been groping  Miss Pink Cat all night.

His cabinet picks look like they could be Villians in an Austin Powers movie....Flynn looks particularly scary.....wonder where in Ireland his people are from?  Maybe the local councillor should invite him over for tea and some locally sourced brown bread with blackberry jam

They look like they are building a team for a smackdown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 03:37:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2016, 03:35:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 01:46:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2016, 11:00:41 PM
Bob the Builder has never been involved in politics so he doesn't really know how to do it. Can we fix it ? Yes we can. But that was an Obama phrase, wasn't it? This week Bob has to drain the swamp.

He has drafted in a number of heavy hitters. Noddy will be in charge of national insecurity. Big Ears is not going to do anything about Climate change. The 3 bears will dismantle Financial regulation to make the system safer. Goldlilocks will leave her job at Breitbart and tell lies to everyone. Dora the explorer will be interned. The little matchgirl was one of Bob's biggest constituencies but she is a loser. She doesn't need a tax cut like Scrooge McDuck does.  The ugly duckling is a warmonger just like his father, Mr Potato Head. Aladdin and Sindbad will have to register.
Bob has the attention span of a gnat. He has been groping  Miss Pink Cat all night.

His cabinet picks look like they could be Villians in an Austin Powers movie....Flynn looks particularly scary.....wonder where in Ireland his people are from?  Maybe the local councillor should invite him over for tea and some locally sourced brown bread with blackberry jam

They look like they are building a team for a smackdown.
It looks like the end of empire when the elites start looting everything and nobody gives a f**k
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 20, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 03:34:45 PM
A good few fruitcake Irish Americans in the cabinet

It just shows the importance of the wider culture in the development of the individual

And Kelly Ann Conway was a Fitzpatrick before she got married-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 03:34:45 PM
A good few fruitcake Irish Americans in the cabinet

It just shows the importance of the wider culture in the development of the individual

And Kelly Ann Conway was a Fitzpatrick before she got married-lol

Her interview with Bill Tipperary Maher is a keeper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maL6-l3DdHk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 04:13:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjbc15X1zSM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 20, 2016, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 03:34:45 PM
A good few fruitcake Irish Americans in the cabinet

It just shows the importance of the wider culture in the development of the individual

And Kelly Ann Conway was a Fitzpatrick before she got married-lol

Her interview with Bill Tipperary Maher is a keeper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maL6-l3DdHk

Wow....is she good at what she does?  He would never have gotten elected without her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 04:31:21 PM
She and Bannon I think

But he is not a populist. He is an oligarch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?

Who is 'us'?

Does he still think he is in an election campaign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 20, 2016, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 20, 2016, 03:23:35 PM
He has Irish Catholic ancestry; his grandfather, also Charles Flynn, was born in 1889 in Blacklands, Fivemiletown, County Tyrone, and later settled in Rhode Island after emigrating to the United States in 1913.[16][17][18][
i
Source Wikipedia.

We're fucked!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?

Who is 'us'?

Does he still think he is in an election campaign?
The poor snowflake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 07:21:15 PM
Trump is stranger than fiction. Havingt his nice piece of ass daughter in on an unbriefed meeting with the Japanese PM and his son in law breaking nepotism laws. I vaguely remember seeing him in the Sunday Times in the 80s. He was the kind of rich asshole Murdoch sold the plebs.  It would be fitting for Thatcherism to collapse while he is in charge 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 20, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?

Who is 'us'?

Does he still think he is in an election campaign?
The poor snowflake.

Lol....he's just after ripping a page out of the Democratic playbook....outraged at everything
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 10:34:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=hF8VV3nXjq8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2016, 10:37:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?

Who is 'us'?

Does he still think he is in an election campaign?
The poor snowflake.

Lol....he's just after ripping a page out of the Democratic playbook....outraged at everything

Yes he is just like Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2016, 11:08:19 PM
Expendable America
Charles Simic

Matt Black/Magnum Photos

Harlan County, Cumberland, Kentucky, 2015
     Donald Trump "may not be good for America, but he's damn good for CBS."
     —Les Moonves, President and Chief Executive Officer of CBS

The Ship of State is sinking and a rooster is chasing a hen in a neighbor's yard. How can that be? A woman is hanging her husband's underwear on the laundry line and singing to herself. The dead leaves are dancing on the ground while a few jump high in the air as if trying to get back on a branch they fell from. A strange dog in my driveway is looking off into the distance and wagging his tail. Don't any of them have patriotic feelings? The Ship of State, festooned with Trump/Pence election signs, is sinking. Shouldn't we all fall silent in awe? The bare trees look spooked though it's past Halloween. The president-elect with a spyglass and his orange pompadour shouts from the crow's nest that he can see thousands of Muslims on rooftops in New Jersey still celebrating the collapse of the Twin Towers—unless I'm hallucinating, but who nowadays can be sure their eyes and ears work? If he is bonkers, as he surely is, many of us are too, like that woman hanging laundry to dry on a day cold enough to snow.

All of us who are familiar with rural areas and former industrial towns in this country know the impoverishment and hopelessness of many men and women who live there. Barely surviving by holding part-time jobs, since businesses now rarely hire full-time workers in order to avoid paying benefits, they are not just underpaid and constantly in debt, but know in their hearts that they and their children are expendable. Understandably, they are angry. When Democrats proclaimed that the economy was doing well and that we were still the greatest country in the world, they started listening to Trump, who told them what they could already plainly see, that we are in decline. These unfortunates, who've been cheated and swindled by bosses, mortgage banks, loan sharks, health insurance companies, and both political parties, have put all their hopes in a billionaire who has a long record of not paying taxes, cheating his workers and contractors out of their pay, and seemingly using his own "charitable" foundation as a slush fund. They voted for a buffoon who doesn't care whether they live or die.
PUBLICITÉ


They got plenty of help in making that decision. Having a candidate as uninspiring as Hillary Clinton, whose weaknesses ought to have been obvious to the party that nominated her and even more so after she lost the white working classes and the young people to Bernie Sanders in the primaries, as it was to many other Americans, including those like me who voted for her, turned out to be a catastrophic error. Not that it is easy to run a national campaign in a country so polarized as ours, split between liberal and conservative voters, urban and rural, educated and uneducated, religious and secular, rich and poor, with the predictable class animosities between them; and with the Internet and social media as our main source of information, a medium ideal for spreading lies and brainwashing the gullible. Without it ISIS could not have gotten all those tens of thousands of recruits and an outright huckster could not have become president of the United States.
It took years of deliberate effort by vested interests to create this "proudly ignorant populism," as someone called it, know-nothing voters who are easily led by the nose, incapable of distinguishing lies from truth, or an honest person from a crook. Easily duped, they can be depended on to act against their own self-interest again and again. Throw into the mix racism, misogyny, hatred of immigrants, gays, and other minorities, the dumbing down of the population by inadequate education, suspicion of learning, rejection of science and history, and dozens of other things like guns and violence, and you have the kind of environment in which people chose their next president.
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their own free will," Goebbels said. Everywhere one turns one hears people parroting lies as if they were their own carefully considered personal opinions. The upshot is that an alternate reality has been constructed for millions in this country over the last couple of decades thanks to TV, talk radio, and the Internet. Spreading falsehoods, of course, is very profitable, as con artists of every type from mealy-mouthed preachers addressing their mega churches to those touting loans that require no background check can tell you. Lies sell everything from fattening foods to "your computer is damaged and we'll help you fix it" scams. The basic requirement for democratic governance—that the majority of the population agrees on the parameters of what is true and what is false—has been deliberately obfuscated in this country. The absence of accountability for repeated fraud by those in power, both in government and in the private sector, the proliferation of fake grass-root organizations, think tanks, and lobbyist firms funded by the wealthy to deceive their fellow citizens and turn them against one another, has become the most characteristic feature of our political life. A genuinely functioning democracy endangers powerful interests and those working so hard and making so much money to destroy it, since they may sooner or later end up in jail.
To mislead one's fellow citizens on such a vast scale is evil. We've seen it before. Never the good old days, of course, but the vile stuff we imagined we'd never see again. How is it possible that mass murder and torture, till yesterday universally condemned, now have their proponents, not just among religious fanatics, but among millions of Americans, including those running for the highest office in the land? The world seems to be divided today between those horrified to see history repeat itself and those who eagerly await its horrors.
In the meantime, I bet the fortune tellers in their storefronts are all depressed, since their prospective clients already know what the future holds. Once the new president settles in and brings the dregs of our society into his administration and they appoint other corrupt and worthless men and women to other positions in the government and start settling scores with their political and personal enemies and keeping their most rabid followers happy by deporting, persecuting, or physically abusing some minority, we won't need a crystal ball to tell us what's in store for us. Thank God, there are all these leaves still to rake in my yard and take my mind off this subject, and the quiet waters of the lake to reflect the setting sun just before a great dark night descends upon us bringing the kind of quiet that makes one hesitate to go indoors just yet, despite the chill, and turn on the first light in the house.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 11:59:53 PM
Sunday Independent, February 5th, 1933

THE EOIN HARRISON COLUMN

Hitler deserves a chance

Protests by opposition supporters are just childish - the new German Chancellor is not a racist and will undoubtedly row back on his more populist promises, says Eoin Harrison

The reaction from all over the world to Adolf Hitler's appointment as German Chancellor has been nothing short of hysterical, to the point of it even being a little amusing.

Smug, all-knowing left-wing liberals everywhere have been pontificating from behind the safety of their typewriters. They have little understanding of what real Germans are thinking and how Hitler has perfectly tapped into the mood of the times in a way the metropolitan liberal elites have completely failed to do.

Hitler has promised to bring the jobs back to failing industrial areas, get better trade deals for Germany, rebuild the country's infrastructure, eradicate the corruption of the Berlin insiders, fix the financial system, and clamp down on immigration, especially Jewish immigration. This appeals to real Germans, and the left simply don't get it.

I travelled over to Germany for the last few days of the campaign and was tremendously enthused by what I saw. Hitler has made politics relevant to the ordinary man in a way it hasn't been since the days of Bismarck. He's not a politician. He has charisma, people listen to him. People may lampoon his facial hair, but that's part of the charm.

He's an outsider and that's what the people want. The enthusiasm at his rallies has to be seen to be believed. That enthusiasm is undoubtedly good for democracy. I attended a rally in Nuremberg three days before the election. Critics have branded his supporters as "racists and anti-semites". These people are no racists or anti-semites. They're just ordinary Helmuts and Hildegaards who are sick of seing their country decline and want to make it great again. They believe Hitler will do that. And so do I.

The out of touch, politically correct classes moan about him not having won a majority of the votes – this completely misses the point. The German system is a democratic parliamentary one - a representative democracy designed specifically to protect against the worst excesses of demagoguery - that was the genius of the founding fathers of the Republic who wrote the constitution in 1919. The lessons of the Great War period have been learnt. Hitler will be no new Kaiser – he won't be free to exert his own authority in an unfettered way, but subject to the checks and balances of the system.

The most hysterical commentary on Hitler's election has surrounded his promises on Jews and immigrants. Let's get real here. Hitler is no racist and no anti-semite. He is a pragmatist and knows that he will need the support of all ethnic groups going forward if he is to make this administration a success.

Jews will not be deported, they will not be discriminated against. There will be no crackdown on a free press. Talk of invading other countries is so ludicrous as to be unworthy of a response.

But one thing is for sure. Hitler and his team tell it like it is. Real Germany is sick of the political correctness surrounding political discussion. Michael Flinz, the man rumoured to be Hitler's choice as National Security Chief, has said that "fear of Jews is rational". That's a sensible and in no way racist or anti-semitic point to make. But those outside of Germany who don't understand the situation have blown the comment into something it's not. Rational discussion is impossible amidst such overblown reaction.

There's a serious lesson here for the left. They have neglected the concerns of the ordinary German. They must address that if they want to be relevant again. They must learn that it's not anti-semitic to object to Jews taking their jobs or peddling their far-left influence in academia. Allegations of anti-semitism lose their meaning if they're thrown around like confetti. Let's hear no more of them from those who don't understand what's happening on the ground.

Berlin insiders have been apoplectic as Hitler moves to appoint his new team. The biased liberal media have added to the noise surrounding the appointment of the new cabinet by claiming, without any evidence whatsoever, that the process was in "chaos". National broadcaster, Cable Nachrichten Networken (CNN ) - known good humouredly by the Nazi camp as the "Communist News Network" – even said there was a metaphorical "knife fight" going on. Rest assured, knives have no place in this new administration.

Already, six days into his tenure, Hitler is showing strong signs of rowing back on his campaign rhetoric, governing from the centre and being a Chancellor for all the people. He has so far appointed two popular and well respected ministers. Wilhelm Frick, the new Interior Minister, is strong on policy details, a superb organiser, and said to be "a safe pair of hands who will relish the cut and thrust of parliamentary debate", while Hermann Goering, ridiculously accused by left-wingers of being an anti-semite, is seen as a maverick who won't be afraid to do some straight talking in the new coalition cabinet in his role as Minister Without Portfolio.

Joseph Goebbels, owner of the extremely popular alternative newspaper Breitburst, has made a name for himself as a gifted journalist and communicator and is hotly tipped to become Communications Minister. Allegations that he is an anti-semite and an irresponsible hothead are also well wide of the mark. He's another very talented maverick who will do a fine job if appointed.

Heinrich Himmler is tipped for a major role in the Defence department. Widely respected across party lines and viewed as extremely capable and versatile, he'll bring a calm head and a common sense attitude to the cabinet.

So overall, Hitler has surrounded himself with people he can trust, and looks like he'll have the backing of a very strong team, perhaps the strongest since Bismarck.

I was heartened by the Taoiseach's message of congratulations to the new Chancellor. Ireland and Germany have always had a close relationship and I expect that to continue without any problems over the coming years.

Hitler has won his chance. Let's give him that chance. Pessimism about his leadership is misplaced. This outsider has been written off many times but always won against the odds. And, whisper it, he may just turn out to be an inspired choice.

Eoin Harrison
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 21, 2016, 12:42:48 AM
Good stuff, Sid.  You should send that on to The Onion, or waterford whispers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 21, 2016, 02:01:59 AM
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/the-best-from-mad-dog-mattis/

This cvnt is completely unhinged

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 21, 2016, 04:49:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?

Who is 'us'?

Does he still think he is in an election campaign?
The poor snowflake.

Lol....he's just after ripping a page out of the Democratic playbook....outraged at everything

Took the words right outta my mouth whitey, everything he does they will hammer him, maybe the rules apply to everyone but p
Killory!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 05:15:54 AM
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/stephen-bannon-facebook-group-racist-material-obama-death-threats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 05:22:24 AM
https://twitter.com/NYCMayor/status/799744510485856257
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 21, 2016, 05:44:56 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 11:59:53 PM
Sunday Independent, February 5th, 1933

THE EOIN HARRISON COLUMN

Hitler deserves a chance

Protests by opposition supporters are just childish - the new German Chancellor is not a racist and will undoubtedly row back on his more populist promises, says Eoin Harrison

The reaction from all over the world to Adolf Hitler's appointment as German Chancellor has been nothing short of hysterical, to the point of it even being a little amusing.

Smug, all-knowing left-wing liberals everywhere have been pontificating from behind the safety of their typewriters. They have little understanding of what real Germans are thinking and how Hitler has perfectly tapped into the mood of the times in a way the metropolitan liberal elites have completely failed to do.

Hitler has promised to bring the jobs back to failing industrial areas, get better trade deals for Germany, rebuild the country's infrastructure, eradicate the corruption of the Berlin insiders, fix the financial system, and clamp down on immigration, especially Jewish immigration. This appeals to real Germans, and the left simply don't get it.

I travelled over to Germany for the last few days of the campaign and was tremendously enthused by what I saw. Hitler has made politics relevant to the ordinary man in a way it hasn't been since the days of Bismarck. He's not a politician. He has charisma, people listen to him. People may lampoon his facial hair, but that's part of the charm.

He's an outsider and that's what the people want. The enthusiasm at his rallies has to be seen to be believed. That enthusiasm is undoubtedly good for democracy. I attended a rally in Nuremberg three days before the election. Critics have branded his supporters as "racists and anti-semites". These people are no racists or anti-semites. They're just ordinary Helmuts and Hildegaards who are sick of seing their country decline and want to make it great again. They believe Hitler will do that. And so do I.

The out of touch, politically correct classes moan about him not having won a majority of the votes – this completely misses the point. The German system is a democratic parliamentary one - a representative democracy designed specifically to protect against the worst excesses of demagoguery - that was the genius of the founding fathers of the Republic who wrote the constitution in 1919. The lessons of the Great War period have been learnt. Hitler will be no new Kaiser – he won't be free to exert his own authority in an unfettered way, but subject to the checks and balances of the system.

The most hysterical commentary on Hitler's election has surrounded his promises on Jews and immigrants. Let's get real here. Hitler is no racist and no anti-semite. He is a pragmatist and knows that he will need the support of all ethnic groups going forward if he is to make this administration a success.

Jews will not be deported, they will not be discriminated against. There will be no crackdown on a free press. Talk of invading other countries is so ludicrous as to be unworthy of a response.

But one thing is for sure. Hitler and his team tell it like it is. Real Germany is sick of the political correctness surrounding political discussion. Michael Flinz, the man rumoured to be Hitler's choice as National Security Chief, has said that "fear of Jews is rational". That's a sensible and in no way racist or anti-semitic point to make. But those outside of Germany who don't understand the situation have blown the comment into something it's not. Rational discussion is impossible amidst such overblown reaction.

There's a serious lesson here for the left. They have neglected the concerns of the ordinary German. They must address that if they want to be relevant again. They must learn that it's not anti-semitic to object to Jews taking their jobs or peddling their far-left influence in academia. Allegations of anti-semitism lose their meaning if they're thrown around like confetti. Let's hear no more of them from those who don't understand what's happening on the ground.

Berlin insiders have been apoplectic as Hitler moves to appoint his new team. The biased liberal media have added to the noise surrounding the appointment of the new cabinet by claiming, without any evidence whatsoever, that the process was in "chaos". National broadcaster, Cable Nachrichten Networken (CNN ) - known good humouredly by the Nazi camp as the "Communist News Network" – even said there was a metaphorical "knife fight" going on. Rest assured, knives have no place in this new administration.

Already, six days into his tenure, Hitler is showing strong signs of rowing back on his campaign rhetoric, governing from the centre and being a Chancellor for all the people. He has so far appointed two popular and well respected ministers. Wilhelm Frick, the new Interior Minister, is strong on policy details, a superb organiser, and said to be "a safe pair of hands who will relish the cut and thrust of parliamentary debate", while Hermann Goering, ridiculously accused by left-wingers of being an anti-semite, is seen as a maverick who won't be afraid to do some straight talking in the new coalition cabinet in his role as Minister Without Portfolio.

Joseph Goebbels, owner of the extremely popular alternative newspaper Breitburst, has made a name for himself as a gifted journalist and communicator and is hotly tipped to become Communications Minister. Allegations that he is an anti-semite and an irresponsible hothead are also well wide of the mark. He's another very talented maverick who will do a fine job if appointed.

Heinrich Himmler is tipped for a major role in the Defence department. Widely respected across party lines and viewed as extremely capable and versatile, he'll bring a calm head and a common sense attitude to the cabinet.

So overall, Hitler has surrounded himself with people he can trust, and looks like he'll have the backing of a very strong team, perhaps the strongest since Bismarck.

I was heartened by the Taoiseach's message of congratulations to the new Chancellor. Ireland and Germany have always had a close relationship and I expect that to continue without any problems over the coming years.

Hitler has won his chance. Let's give him that chance. Pessimism about his leadership is misplaced. This outsider has been written off many times but always won against the odds. And, whisper it, he may just turn out to be an inspired choice.

Eoin Harrison


Is this the way liberals are going to portray Trump? What classless bastards!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 05:52:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 21, 2016, 02:01:59 AM
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/the-best-from-mad-dog-mattis/

This cvnt is completely unhinged

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling."

1500 American vets have no testicles. IEDS are cheap. Place them at waist hight . Armour is no ptotection. It''s fun to mangle US soldiers I imagine. In Afghanistan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on November 21, 2016, 05:54:58 AM
Sid, did you write this piece? It's terrific.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 21, 2016, 08:08:18 AM
Quote from: stew on November 21, 2016, 05:44:56 AM

Is this the way liberals are going to portray Trump? What classless b**tards!
Is it a conscious decision on your part to model your writing style on Trump's twitter messages or is that simply your natural style that you arrived at all by yourself?

Quote from: Oraisteach on November 21, 2016, 05:54:58 AM
Sid, did you write this piece? It's terrific.
Yip.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 08:19:48 AM
Mr Harrison didn't mention what a refreshing change Mr Streicher's alt fact journalism is after years of the Sinn Féin press office and Irish Times moaning about toilets for transexuals and social justice and other such fripperies . How lovely on the mountain are the feet of him who brings alt news.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 08:34:56 AM
https://www.splcenter.org/tell-donald-trump-reject-hate-and-bigotry-0


This is very good
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/van-jones-donald-trump-sanders-clinton-racism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 21, 2016, 09:47:28 AM
So Trump was paying off the media??

http://www.mediaite.com/online/i-wanted-real-answers-hannity-calls-out-megyn-kelly-over-claims-that-pro-trump-hosts-were-acting/

I thought it was Hillary... Any comments stew? whitey?

PS. That's great sid!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 21, 2016, 10:35:21 AM
Bravo, Sid. Great to see homegrown satire of such quality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 11:34:23 AM
Trump never settles

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/trump-ready-settle-trump-university-fraud-cases
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 11:38:08 AM
The new Attorney General was once too racist to be a federal judge
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/anti-immigrant-influence-jeff-sessions-trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 21, 2016, 12:20:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 11:38:08 AM
The new Attorney General was once too racist to be a federal judge
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/anti-immigrant-influence-jeff-sessions-trump
Jeff loves his music. His favourite album is The White Album - the Racist Sessions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2016, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 21, 2016, 02:01:59 AM
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/the-best-from-mad-dog-mattis/

This cvnt is completely unhinged

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling."

If this guy wasn't in the military he would be in a street gang, or if he was from a different race he would be a terrorist.

I'm surprised Trump is letting him retire.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 12:41:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2016, 12:20:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 11:38:08 AM
The new Attorney General was once too racist to be a federal judge
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/anti-immigrant-influence-jeff-sessions-trump
Jeff loves his music. His favourite album is The White Album - the Racist Sessions.

Fox will be covering the lynchings in a new series starting February
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 21, 2016, 12:43:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?

Who is 'us'?

Does he still think he is in an election campaign?
The poor snowflake.

Lol....he's just after ripping a page out of the Democratic playbook....outraged at everything

Seriously??

You level that charge at Democrats after the past decade of conservative (including the president-elect himself) behaviour and rhetoric towards Obama and anyone who is not a "real American"?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 12:46:40 PM
Van Jones is very good

He understood the dynamics of the new media system better than the people who ran the old media system. You don't get fewer followers saying outrageous stuff on Twitter. You don't get lower ratings playing the villain on reality TV. Playing the villain gets you higher ratings on reality TV and saying outrageous stuff on Twitter gets you more followers. All the old rules—if you say some crazy stuff you get your show canceled or you get your campaign ended—don't apply in the world of social media. They don't apply in the world of reality TV. He just played everybody.

And it is quite a wobbly coalition. That just barely won.
Wait until Trump starts talking about deficit spending. Ryan is diametrically opposed to deficit spending
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2016, 12:49:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 21, 2016, 12:43:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?

Who is 'us'?

Does he still think he is in an election campaign?
The poor snowflake.

Lol....he's just after ripping a page out of the Democratic playbook....outraged at everything

Seriously??

You level that charge at Democrats after the past decade of conservative (including the president-elect himself) behaviour and rhetoric towards Obama and anyone who is not a "real American"?

This just shows the level things have got to when people who are only ever at maximum outrage, all the time, on everything, even things they haven't heard or understood yet............are outraged because they think their perceived opponents are outraged, at Trump being outraged!

Congrats Fox, Breitbart, Daily Caller etc. You won.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 21, 2016, 12:50:05 PM

Quote from: J70 on November 21, 2016, 12:43:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?

Who is 'us'?

Does he still think he is in an election campaign?
The poor snowflake.

Lol....he's just after ripping a page out of the Democratic playbook....outraged at everything

Seriously??

You level that charge at Democrats after the past decade of conservative (including the president-elect himself) behaviour and rhetoric towards Obama and anyone who is not a "real American"?

I am a real American, fight for the rights of the white man
I am a real American, fight for what's right (wing), fight for your life!

When it comes crashing down, and it hurts inside,
Ya' gotta take a stand, it don't help to hide,
Well, you hurt my friends, and you hurt my pride,
I gotta be a man; I can't let it slide,
I am a real American, Fight for the rights of the white man,
I am a real American, fight for what's right (wing), fight for your life!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKLQzENK0EftNOo/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 21, 2016, 12:56:39 PM
Van Jones - there's an interesting contrast to Jeff Sessions.

Will Sessions' appointment to the Administration be held to something even approaching the standard to which the GOP held the Obama White House when it came to Van Jones and past statements?

Given that whitey reckons fake outrage is the Democratic M.O. and all...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 21, 2016, 01:04:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 21, 2016, 12:56:39 PM
Van Jones - there's an interesting contrast to Jeff Sessions.

Will Sessions' appointment to the Administration be held to something even approaching the standard to which the GOP held the Obama White House when it came to Van Jones and past statements?

Given that whitey reckons fake outrage is the Democratic M.O. and all...

Case in point......you're even outraged that I said you're outraged
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 21, 2016, 01:19:23 PM
Donald isn't too impressed with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUWSLlz0Fdo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 01:29:12 PM
It is going to be flakier than Brexit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 21, 2016, 01:51:11 PM
As a follow up to Sid's work.

1933: German Jewish newspaper advises readers not to believe Hitler's past rhetoric; trust checks & balances. #learnfromhistory

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxp-Ip7UUAAiNQI.jpg:large)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 21, 2016, 02:05:46 PM
Alt-Right Exults in Donald Trump's Election With a Salute: 'Heil Victory'

By JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN NOV. 20, 2016

WASHINGTON — By the time Richard B. Spencer, the leading ideologue of the alt-right movement and the final speaker of the night, rose to address a gathering of his followers on Saturday, the crowd was restless.

In 11 hours of speeches and panel discussions in a federal building named after Ronald Reagan a few blocks from the White House, a succession of speakers had laid out a harsh vision for the future, but had denounced violence and said that Hispanic citizens and black Americans had nothing to fear. Earlier in the day, Mr. Spencer himself had urged the group to start acting less like an underground organization and more like the establishment.

But now his tone changed as he began to tell the audience of more than 200 people, mostly young men, what they had been waiting to hear. He railed against Jews and, with a smile, quoted Nazi propaganda in the original German. America, he said, belonged to white people, whom he called the "children of the sun," a race of conquerors and creators who had been marginalized but now, in the era of President-elect Donald J. Trump, were "awakening to their own identity."

As he finished, several audience members had their arms outstretched in a Nazi salute. When Mr. Spencer, or perhaps another person standing near him at the front of the room — it was not clear who — shouted, "Heil the people! Heil victory," the room shouted it back.

These are exultant times for the alt-right movement, which was little known until this year, when it embraced Mr. Trump's campaign and he appeared to embrace it back. He chose as his campaign chairman Stephen K. Bannon, the media executive who ran the alt-right's most prominent platform, Breitbart News, and then named him as a senior adviser and chief strategist.

Now the movement's leaders hope to have, if not a seat at the table, at least the ear of the Trump White House.

While many of its racist views are well known — that President Obama is, or may as well be, of foreign birth; that the Black Lives Matter movement is another name for black race rioters; that even the American-born children of undocumented Hispanic immigrants should be deported — the alt-right has been difficult to define. Is it a name for right-wing political provocateurs in the internet era? Or is it a political movement defined by xenophobia and a dislike for political correctness?

At the conference on Saturday, Mr. Spencer, who said he had coined the term, defined the alt-right as a movement with white identity as its core idea.

"We've crossed the Rubicon in terms of recognition," Mr. Spencer said at the conference, which was sponsored by his organization, the National Policy Institute.

And while much of the discourse at the conference was overtly racist and demeaning toward minorities, for much of the day the sentiments were expressed in ways that seemed intended to not sound too menacing. The focus was on how whites were marginalized and beleaguered.

One speaker, Peter Brimelow, the founder of Vdare.com, an anti-immigration website, asked why, if Hispanics had the National Council of La Raza and Jews had the Anti-Defamation League, whites were reluctant to organize for their rights. Some speakers made an effort to distance themselves from more notorious white power organizations like the Ku Klux Klan.

But as the night wore on and most reporters had gone home, the language changed.

Mr. Spencer's after-dinner speech began with a polemic against the "mainstream media," before he briefly paused. "Perhaps we should refer to them in the original German?" he said.

The audience immediately screamed back, "Lügenpresse," reviving a Nazi-era word that means "lying press."

Mr. Spencer suggested that the news media had been critical of Mr. Trump throughout the campaign in order to protect Jewish interests. He mused about the political commentators who gave Mr. Trump little chance of winning.

"One wonders if these people are people at all, or instead soulless golem," he said, referring to a Jewish fable about the golem, a clay giant that a rabbi brings to life to protect the Jews.

Mr. Trump's election, Mr. Spencer said, was "the victory of will," a phrase that echoed the title of the most famous Nazi-era propaganda film. But Mr. Spencer then mentioned, with a smile, Theodor Herzl, the Zionist leader who advocated a Jewish homeland in Israel, quoting his famous pronouncement, "If we will it, it is no dream."

The United States today, Mr. Spencer said, had been turned into "a sick, corrupted society." But it was not supposed to be that way.

"America was, until this last generation, a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity," Mr. Spencer thundered. "It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us."

But the white race, he added, is "a race that travels forever on an upward path."

"To be white is to be a creator, an explorer, a conqueror," he said.
 
More members of the audience were on their feet as Mr. Spencer described the choice facing white people as to "conquer or die."

Of other races, Mr. Spencer said: "We don't exploit other groups, we don't gain anything from their presence. They need us, and not the other way around."

The ties between the alt-right movement and the Trump team are difficult to define, even by members of the alt-right.

Mr. Bannon was the chief executive of Breitbart, an online news organization that has fed the lie that Mr. Obama is a Kenyan-born Muslim. As recently as last year, Breitbart published an op-ed article urging that "every tree, every rooftop, every picket fence, every telegraph pole in the South should be festooned with the Confederate battle flag."

Mr. Bannon told  Mother Jones this year that Breitbart was now "the platform for the alt-right."

But in an interview last week with The Wall Street Journal, Mr. Bannon said that the alt-right was only "a tiny part" of the viewpoint represented on Breitbart.

"Our definition of the alt-right is younger people who are anti-globalists, very nationalist, terribly anti-establishment," he told The Journal, adding that the alt-right had "some racial and anti-Semitic overtones."

When asked about Mr. Bannon, the conference's speakers said that they might have shaken his hand on occasion, but that they did not know him well.

Mr. Brimelow said that he had met "Mr. Bannon once, earlier this summer, before he ascended to Olympus." He said he had told Mr. Bannon that he was doing great work at Breitbart. "He agreed," Mr. Brimelow recalled to the audience.

As for Mr. Trump, Mr. Brimelow said he had met him about 30 years ago at a "conservative affinity meeting" in Manhattan. But that was it.

"Trump and Steve Bannon are not alt-right people," Mr. Brimelow said, adding that they had opportunistically seized on two issues that the alt-right cares most about — stopping immigration and fighting political correctness — and used them to mobilize white voters.

Mr. Spencer said that while he did not think the president-elect should be considered alt-right, "I do think we have a psychic connection, or you can say a deeper connection, with Donald Trump in a way that we simply do not have with most Republicans."

White identity, he said, is at the core of both the alt-right movement and the Trump movement, even if most voters for Mr. Trump "aren't willing to articulate it as such."

At various points, he and other speakers outlined where they differed from Mr. Trump. They see him as too beholden to Israel. They do not see any reason to start a trade war with China, and they are not necessarily opposed to the Iran nuclear deal.

For them, immigration is the most potent mobilizing issue, less for economic reasons than because of the prospect that white Americans will someday represent less than half of the population of the country.

For the alt-right, the most exciting thing about Mr. Trump was that he built a campaign around the issues that mattered most to them, and that white people had voted for him in numbers that left the political establishments of both parties stunned. Now, Mr. Spencer said, it is up to the alt-right to formulate the ideas and policies to guide the new administration.

"I think we can be the ones out in front, thinking about those things he hasn't quite grasped yet, who are putting forward policies," Mr. Spencer said, that "have a realistic chance of being implemented."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 04:01:33 PM
One difference with the 30s is that Bannon and Trump don't have their own political party. The parasite is operating inside the GOP. So they have to make alliances with evangelicals via Pence and military fruitcakes via Flynn etc
The GOP might kill Trumps tax cuts and borrowing plans.

The desire for war with Iran is interesting cos they went to war in Iraq in 03 and ended up being owned by Iran. Like a bitch. The civil war that the Yanks unleashed had to be defeated by a surge which put the Shia death squads into Government. This led to ISIS taking over Mosul and eventually Russia running the war in Syria. None of this was in the plans.

It is all a long way from Apple pie.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2016, 04:05:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 04:01:33 PM
One difference with the 30s is that Bannon and Trump don't have their own political party. The parasite is operating inside the GOP. So they have to make alliances with evangelicals via Pence and military fruitcakes via Flynn etc
The GOP might kill Trumps tax cuts and borrowing plans.

The desire for war with Iran is interesting cos they went to war in Iraq in 03 and ended up being owned by Iran. Like a bitch. The civil war that the Yanks unleashed had to be defeated by a surge which put the Shia death squads into Government. This led to ISIS taking over Mosul and eventually Russia running the war in Syria. None of this was in the plans.

It is all a long way from Apple pie.

Flynn is also an advocate for regime change in Afghanistan (agains) & Pakistan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2016, 10:46:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 21, 2016, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 21, 2016, 02:01:59 AM
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/the-best-from-mad-dog-mattis/

This cvnt is completely unhinged

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling."

If this guy wasn't in the military he would be in a street gang, or if he was from a different race he would be a terrorist.

I'm surprised Trump is letting him retire.

Jesus Donald, I was joking: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38056197 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38056197)

Trump transition: Will General 'Mad Dog' Mattis lead Pentagon?

Well Whitey, you seem to be able to pull these rabbits out of the hair, I mean hat. Who else is Trump going for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 21, 2016, 10:57:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 21, 2016, 12:43:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 20, 2016, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2016, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?

Who is 'us'?

Does he still think he is in an election campaign?
The poor snowflake.

Lol....he's just after ripping a page out of the Democratic playbook....outraged at everything

Seriously??

You level that charge at Democrats after the past decade of conservative (including the president-elect himself) behaviour and rhetoric towards Obama and anyone who is not a "real American"?

Obama has been a national disaster, financially, morally and ethically, for anyone to stick up for this arsehole at this stage is repugnant in the extreme.

I wanted this President to do well, he killed the middle class, far worse still, he killed the black working class who sent him their hard earned dollars to get him elected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2016, 10:59:22 PM
Ok Stew, please explain each of these: 'Obama has been a national disaster, financially, morally and ethically'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 21, 2016, 11:04:05 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 21, 2016, 01:51:11 PM
As a follow up to Sid's work.

1933: German Jewish newspaper advises readers not to believe Hitler's past rhetoric; trust checks & balances. #learnfromhistory

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxp-Ip7UUAAiNQI.jpg:large)


Declan, the more you believe trump is some sort of Nazi the more glad I am he fucked your horrendous candidate!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2016, 11:24:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 21, 2016, 10:59:22 PM
Ok Stew, please explain each of these: 'Obama has been a national disaster, financially, morally and ethically'.
Financially the rich have never been richer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 21, 2016, 11:46:54 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

Lol.....for a minute I thought it was  April Fools Day
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 22, 2016, 12:29:24 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.
A good President, not a great President, as Eamon Dunphy would say.

But looking gooder by the day given what's following him. Bigly.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 22, 2016, 12:34:12 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

Sadly in the States around 80% of the population will automatically think someone is the worst possible candidate, President, Governor, Sherriff, TV Station, DJ, Gossip columnist etc, etc, simply because of the party they are in.

Half of this 80% are usually outraged with the other half.

The remaining 20% keep their heads down as the majority of the 80% are outraged at them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2016, 05:28:53 AM
(http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2016/10/ObamasNumbers-2016-Q31.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2016, 05:30:54 AM
Fear not. Donald will get that uninsured number back up where it belongs and restore the freedom to deny life-saving treatment for pre-existing conditions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 06:14:10 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2016, 05:28:53 AM
(http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2016/10/ObamasNumbers-2016-Q31.png)
Lovely chart but rural and post industrial USA didn't buy it cos they can't see it 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 06:17:45 AM
Trump has suggested Nigel Falange as UK ambassador. WTF
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2016, 07:51:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 06:14:10 AM
Lovely chart but rural and post industrial USA didn't buy it cos they can't see it

I was addressing Stew's bizarre claim that Obama has been a financial disaster for the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 08:08:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2016, 07:51:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 06:14:10 AM
Lovely chart but rural and post industrial USA didn't buy it cos they can't see it

I was addressing Stew's bizarre claim that Obama has been a financial disaster for the country.
If the US economy crashes again Eamonn Stew wii be proven right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 08:23:24 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2016, 07:51:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 06:14:10 AM
Lovely chart but rural and post industrial USA didn't buy it cos they can't see it

I was addressing Stew's bizarre claim that Obama has been a financial disaster for the country.
Corporate profits plus 144%, SnP plus 167%
In the real ecopnomy median income pls 2%, home ownership minus 4.6%

Those 4 stats explain why Trump won
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!

Black people are worse off now than they were ten years ago.

Great idea to give billions to the banking elite, first thing they did was give themselves big bonuses for losing trillions.

Benghazi was on his watch, he let terrorists go for a traitor, I could go on but can't be bothered.

Only a complete and utter moron would think Obama is a great president, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama and the country said no, that's how great he was.

The man is a decent human being, a far better one than the two arseholes who wanted has job, that said he has been a disaster and I pity the monkeys that cannot see it, so attached are they to their liberal ideals



Who pays the ten trillion back then?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!

Black people are worse off now than they were ten years ago.

Great idea to give billions to the banking elite, first thing they did was give themselves big bonuses for losing trillions.

Benghazi was on his watch, he let terrorists go for a traitor, I could go on but can't be bothered.

Only a complete and utter moron would think Obama is a great president, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama and the country said no, that's how great he was.

The man is a decent human being, a far better one than the two arseholes who wanted has job, that said he has been a disaster and I pity the monkeys that cannot see it, so attached are they to their liberal ideals



Who pays the ten trillion back then?
It won't be paid back.
The Fed has been buying debt since 2009. It will probably cancel it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:12:54 AM
Alt right is bullshit. It's about maintaining a white majority
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/alt-right-conference-richard-spencer-white-nationalists

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum expressed alarm on Monday over "hateful speech" at a white nationalist meeting over the weekend, and a restaurant apologized for hosting the group after a woman tweeted a picture of herself making a Nazi salute.    The National Policy Institute, a think tank that is part of the alt-right movement that includes neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites, held a gathering at the federally owned Ronald Reagan Building on Saturday.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.754493

The GOP is the immigration party. It drives wages down and means higher corporate profits. See Eamonn's chart.

It's going to be Bannon vs the GOP.
There is no way to please the poor voters, the rich funders and the Nazis at the same time.

The coalition will tear itself apart.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 22, 2016, 11:17:23 AM
Trump being accused of using his new found power to get the Argies to pass one of his planning applications in Buenos Aires and the daughter using the meeting with the Japanese lads to show off a new jewelry collection ala QVC.

Stay classy USA, stay classy!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 22, 2016, 11:24:46 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!

Black people are worse off now than they were ten years ago.

Great idea to give billions to the banking elite, first thing they did was give themselves big bonuses for losing trillions.

Benghazi was on his watch, he let terrorists go for a traitor, I could go on but can't be bothered.

Only a complete and utter moron would think Obama is a great president, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama and the country said no, that's how great he was.

The man is a decent human being, a far better one than the two arseholes who wanted has job, that said he has been a disaster and I pity the monkeys that cannot see it, so attached are they to their liberal ideals



Who pays the ten trillion back then?
It won't be paid back.
The Fed has been buying debt since 2009. It will probably cancel it

I don't really understand your agenda Seafoid.

2009 is not the watershed in the disastrous US finances. It was the election of G.W. Bush. You know that better than anyone here.

Obama was left with a rapidly rising mountain of debt, wouldn't cut spending and had a completely belligerent GOP, who wouldn't let him raise taxes. They are all responsible for the $18Tr. 

As for Trump, he wants to 'do a deal', or default on at least some of it. That'll be fun.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 22, 2016, 11:32:08 AM
QuoteAs for Trump, he wants to 'do a deal', or default on at least some of it. That'll be fun.

To be fair he's good at "settling" - See his Trump University figures

5,000 defrauded students, at $35K each = $175mil. Settled for $25mil, walks away with $150mil.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 22, 2016, 11:33:49 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 22, 2016, 11:32:08 AM
QuoteAs for Trump, he wants to 'do a deal', or default on at least some of it. That'll be fun.

To be fair he's good at "settling" - See his Trump University figures

5,000 defrauded students, at $35K each = $175mil. Settled for $25mil, walks away with $150mil.


That €25m will be written off as well, so US taxpayers will end up paying for Trump's University fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:44:47 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 22, 2016, 11:17:23 AM
Trump being accused of using his new found power to get the Argies to pass one of his planning applications in Buenos Aires and the daughter using the meeting with the Japanese lads to show off a new jewelry collection ala QVC.

Stay classy USA, stay classy!
Never forget his last ad . Global special interest partners with political people who don't have your good in mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:56:35 AM
Sieg Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=1o6-bi3jlxk

The music to go with it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc-DgRO1SrQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!

Black people are worse off now than they were ten years ago.

Great idea to give billions to the banking elite, first thing they did was give themselves big bonuses for losing trillions.

Benghazi was on his watch, he let terrorists go for a traitor, I could go on but can't be bothered.

Only a complete and utter moron would think Obama is a great president, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama and the country said no, that's how great he was.

The man is a decent human being, a far better one than the two arseholes who wanted has job, that said he has been a disaster and I pity the monkeys that cannot see it, so attached are they to their liberal ideals



Who pays the ten trillion back then?

I asked you before stew - what should Obama have done in terms of debt and poverty and jobs and so on, given the hand he was dealt.

The economy was losing 750K jobs a month when he took over, an absolutely extraordinary figure. Tell us what he should have done that he didn't (or what he did do that he shouldn't)?

20 million people have health insurance now that didn't before due to Obamacare (and it would be more if the GOP hadn't tried to stick to him and poor people in a number of states).

What should he have done to address the healthcare issue? The GOP negotiated in bad faith. Obamacare, their idea, is what we ended up with, but it gets the basics right with the mandate, the prohibition on pre-existing conditions penalization, extension of child coverage and so on. There is no addressing the health care problem without a mandate, as you need the buy-in from young people to fund affordable health care for the old and sick. But, a lot of people would rather pay the financial penalty and skip it, so the pool is older and sicker than it should be.

How would the world look now if McCain/Palin had won the White House?

Would it be better? If so, how?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 12:30:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2016, 11:24:46 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!

Black people are worse off now than they were ten years ago.

Great idea to give billions to the banking elite, first thing they did was give themselves big bonuses for losing trillions.

Benghazi was on his watch, he let terrorists go for a traitor, I could go on but can't be bothered.

Only a complete and utter moron would think Obama is a great president, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama and the country said no, that's how great he was.

The man is a decent human being, a far better one than the two arseholes who wanted has job, that said he has been a disaster and I pity the monkeys that cannot see it, so attached are they to their liberal ideals



Who pays the ten trillion back then?
It won't be paid back.
The Fed has been buying debt since 2009. It will probably cancel it

I don't really understand your agenda Seafoid.

2009 is not the watershed in the disastrous US finances. It was the election of G.W. Bush. You know that better than anyone here.

Obama was left with a rapidly rising mountain of debt, wouldn't cut spending and had a completely belligerent GOP, who wouldn't let him raise taxes. They are all responsible for the $18Tr. 

As for Trump, he wants to 'do a deal', or default on at least some of it. That'll be fun.

Muppet the watershed was 1980.

Bush was a stage on the road.
Thatcherism/neoliberalism is built on debt.
And all the money goes to the rich . That is why the UK is now banjaxed. It is why there is no inflation in the EZ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOuf69G7AQU

58% of new income in the US 1975 to 2007 went to the 0.1%

Obama is a nice guy. He did a few good things like gay marriage and work on climate
But he knew nothing about foreign Policy. So Hillary and the neocons captured him
And he didn't know anything about economics.
So Wall St captured him

Thomas Palley had an article about Obama's economics advisors

"Obama is a politician, not an expert in economics, and as a politician determined to take an intelligent approach to the problems confronting America, he sensibly decided to get his information on these challenges from the very best.
How was he to know that the world's leading economists, the "very best" in this crucial field, actually knew nothing about how the real economy actually functions?
Only after 2 years in office, when the economy is not recovering from the recession as his advisors told him it would, and the remedies that he throws at it (on their advice) turn out to be more damp squibs that the weapons of mass economic reconstruction he was told they would be, must it slowly be dawning on him that may don't understand the economy.
He's learning the hard way the lesson I and many other critical economists acquired as we studied for our economics degrees–mostly by reacting incredulously to weird propositions that our Professors would use to derive their models–that there is something rotten in the state of economic thinking"

Debt can no longer generate economic growth.

It's ludicrous to say growth is over because if everyone on this board got a 10% payrise and that was repeated across the OECD economy you would have loads of ideas.

I have zero faith in anybody in power to fix this. The Dems are just as venal as the GOP.

And now lookit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=1o6-bi3jlxk

Tremenjus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 22, 2016, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!

Black people are worse off now than they were ten years ago.

Great idea to give billions to the banking elite, first thing they did was give themselves big bonuses for losing trillions.

Benghazi was on his watch, he let terrorists go for a traitor, I could go on but can't be bothered.

Only a complete and utter moron would think Obama is a great president, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama and the country said no, that's how great he was.

The man is a decent human being, a far better one than the two arseholes who wanted has job, that said he has been a disaster and I pity the monkeys that cannot see it, so attached are they to their liberal ideals



Who pays the ten trillion back then?

I asked you before stew - what should Obama have done in terms of debt and poverty and jobs and so on, given the hand he was dealt.

The economy was losing 750K jobs a month when he took over, an absolutely extraordinary figure. Tell us what he should have done that he didn't (or what he did do that he shouldn't)?

20 million people have health insurance now that didn't before due to Obamacare (and it would be more if the GOP hadn't tried to stick to him and poor people in a number of states).

What should he have done to address the healthcare issue? The GOP negotiated in bad faith. Obamacare, their idea, is what we ended up with, but it gets the basics right with the mandate, the prohibition on pre-existing conditions penalization, extension of child coverage and so on. There is no addressing the health care problem without a mandate, as you need the buy-in from young people to fund affordable health care for the old and sick. But, a lot of people would rather pay the financial penalty and skip it, so the pool is older and sicker than it should be.

How would the world look now if McCain/Palin had won the White House?

Would it be better? If so, how?

I would cut interest rates even further and kept them low, I would have made the government smaller and I would have penalised American companies that shut up shop and facked off to say Mexico or Ireland etc.

I would have had cut all wasteful spending and I would grow the economy which would help lower the twenty trillion debt.

I would use part of any surplus to reduce the debt and I would lower the legal drinking age to 18 years of age, further I would invest in opening government run pharmacies that sell drugs that are currently illegal, since there are said to be 100 million drug users in the states, the profits could be used to help the addicts, treatment centers would be funded and the surplus government taxes could go to reducing the national debt, you also eliminate the need for drug dealers and you .ca control the quality of the narcotics.

I write the above as a man who has never do much as has a drag of a cigarette!

I know I will get stick for the last paragraph but the vast I look at it is the shit is in the country and the government spend billions in a futile attempt to stop the flow.

Pertaining to Obama care, the French, Swiss and Brita have some of the best healthcare systems in the world, I would have studied the top ten with empasis on the bigger countries and built a healthcare system that works for all.
Obama's team claimed they studied other nations, given the horrendous rollout and implemrotation of Obama care I highly doubt that.

J70 you asked what I would do, that is what I would do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 02:36:55 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!

Black people are worse off now than they were ten years ago.

Great idea to give billions to the banking elite, first thing they did was give themselves big bonuses for losing trillions.

Benghazi was on his watch, he let terrorists go for a traitor, I could go on but can't be bothered.

Only a complete and utter moron would think Obama is a great president, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama and the country said no, that's how great he was.

The man is a decent human being, a far better one than the two arseholes who wanted has job, that said he has been a disaster and I pity the monkeys that cannot see it, so attached are they to their liberal ideals



Who pays the ten trillion back then?

I asked you before stew - what should Obama have done in terms of debt and poverty and jobs and so on, given the hand he was dealt.

The economy was losing 750K jobs a month when he took over, an absolutely extraordinary figure. Tell us what he should have done that he didn't (or what he did do that he shouldn't)?

20 million people have health insurance now that didn't before due to Obamacare (and it would be more if the GOP hadn't tried to stick to him and poor people in a number of states).

What should he have done to address the healthcare issue? The GOP negotiated in bad faith. Obamacare, their idea, is what we ended up with, but it gets the basics right with the mandate, the prohibition on pre-existing conditions penalization, extension of child coverage and so on. There is no addressing the health care problem without a mandate, as you need the buy-in from young people to fund affordable health care for the old and sick. But, a lot of people would rather pay the financial penalty and skip it, so the pool is older and sicker than it should be.

How would the world look now if McCain/Palin had won the White House?

Would it be better? If so, how?

I would cut interest rates even further and kept them low, I would have made the government smaller and I would have penalised American companies that shut up shop and facked off to say Mexico or Ireland etc.

I would have had cut all wasteful spending and I would grow the economy which would help lower the twenty trillion debt.

I would use part of any surplus to reduce the debt and I would lower the legal drinking age to 18 years of age, further I would invest in opening government run pharmacies that sell drugs that are currently illegal, since there are said to be 100 million drug users in the states, the profits could be used to help the addicts, treatment centers would be funded and the surplus government taxes could go to reducing the national debt, you also eliminate the need for drug dealers and you .ca control the quality of the narcotics.

I write the above as a man who has never do much as has a drag of a cigarette!

I know I will get stick for the last paragraph but the vast I look at it is the shit is in the country and the government spend billions in a futile attempt to stop the flow.

Pertaining to Obama care, the French, Swiss and Brita have some of the best healthcare systems in the world, I would have studied the top ten with empasis on the bigger countries and built a healthcare system that works for all.
Obama's team claimed they studied other nations, given the horrendous rollout and implemrotation of Obama care I highly doubt that.

J70 you asked what I would do, that is what I would do.

I wonder how much Clinton spent. The money could have been spent building a grassroots movement.
US healthcare is a catastrophe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 22, 2016, 02:54:11 PM
Bernie Saunders hit the nail on the head when he said he current generation are the least bigoted and non racist in the history of the country, that gives me hope for the future.

If nothing else I hope that both parties realise that they need to come to the centre and work together, Obama and the GOP did nothing but get in each other's road!








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 22, 2016, 03:00:23 PM
So after all that we're not going to "lock her up"

Another flip flop to go with countless before and countless other to follow!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 22, 2016, 03:05:29 PM
so strange things happen every day, and seafoid I agree with a number of your points.

78 sowed the seeds, and thatcher in 79 with reagan to follow were the seeds whose bounty we reap today.

Few things I disagree with though, Palley- just in general, his own neo or post keynesian economic theory, doesn't hold up to inspection IMHO. no thought given to the macro-societal and micro-local factors in deriving utility used in models, and along with everyone else the traditional time miss. The single biggest issue with modern economists is the cherry picking of causes that promote the economist's standing in the academic and peer community. You now have the tools to model successfully, but the will to be possibly proved wrong is not there. Kevin Murphy at Booth is an exception and has put his money very successfully where his mouth is.

I would argue that the one way out of the current economic malaise for the US is:

1) a tax overhaul on capital gains, corporate profits, carried interest, profit earned abroad, loophole closing and a complete moratorium on political donations.  Overhaul of Charity, trust and educational for profit qualifications. huge GDP increase.
2) the rules for healthcare provision, education and benefits should be removed completely from the state and imposed and standardized at federal levels. adds to GDP
3) temporarily add to the debt. Impose a complete overhaul of the crumbling US infrastructure from transport, to communications and all else. self funding.
4) a new version of the GI bill, except instead of just military service, a national service for all work relating to above infrastructure projects, all employees FT, healthcare, free education, pension.self funding.
5) The US immigration system is broken, although it actually meets very closely the economic needs of the United States, the legal immigration system does not support it, and that impacts the immigration needs of the economy. adds to GDP

Blue collar jobs, white collar jobs, improved infrastructure, multiplier effect, education improvements, lower benefits costs, increased employment where most impacted. Domestic economy accelerated.

Chances of current politicians voting for this zero.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2016, 03:20:54 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 02:13:27 PM


I would cut interest rates even further and kept them low, I would have made the government smaller and I would have penalised American companies that shut up shop and facked off to say Mexico or Ireland etc.

Interest rates in the US have been rock-bottom since before Obama even took over!

That's been part of the problem - they haven't been able to use interest rates to stimulate the economy because you can't go any lower than virtually zero.

And its all well and good to say you'd make government smaller, but how and which departments?

And how are you going to penalize those companies? There's already a repatriation tax. Are you going to slap tariffs on everything they make?

Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 02:13:27 PM
I would have had cut all wasteful spending and I would grow the economy which would help lower the twenty trillion debt.

Just like that. Why didn't Obama think of that!

As with the previous shrink the government bit, what wasteful spending? How much duplication is there? How much bureaucracy is there that you can reduce? If you remove the multiple layers of oversight and approval, does the opportunity not increase for abuse of government funds and corruption?

Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 02:13:27 PM
I would use part of any surplus to reduce the debt and I would lower the legal drinking age to 18 years of age, further I would invest in opening government run pharmacies that sell drugs that are currently illegal, since there are said to be 100 million drug users in the states, the profits could be used to help the addicts, treatment centers would be funded and the surplus government taxes could go to reducing the national debt, you also eliminate the need for drug dealers and you .ca control the quality of the narcotics.

Ok, drug legalization. There's an argument to be made for it, but is it really something that is going to impact the federal budget and debt?

Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 02:13:27 PM
I write the above as a man who has never do much as has a drag of a cigarette!

I know I will get stick for the last paragraph but the vast I look at it is the shit is in the country and the government spend billions in a futile attempt to stop the flow.

Pertaining to Obama care, the French, Swiss and Brita have some of the best healthcare systems in the world, I would have studied the top ten with empasis on the bigger countries and built a healthcare system that works for all.
Obama's team claimed they studied other nations, given the horrendous rollout and implemrotation of Obama care I highly doubt that.

J70 you asked what I would do, that is what I would do.

OF course they studied other healthcare systems, but the public option was a non-starter from the very beginning. The right did so much crying and fear mongering over the modest changes brought in by Obamacare as it was (and they were GOP ideas, including the mandate, right up until 2008). How the hell do you think they would have reacted to Medicare For All, which many on the left advocated for? The whole tea party movement rose up in response to, first, the bailouts and measures to help underwater homeowners, and then was turbo-charged by the passing of Obamacare. Why do you think the GOP House "repealed" Obamacare 50 or 60 times?

I'm confused as to your opposition to Obamacare. Given your advocacy for the Swiss, British and French systems, you clearly have no problem with a health insurance mandate (the centrepiece of Obamacare) or publicly-funded healthcare.

Yes, the rollout was awful, but hardly unprecedented when it comes to computerizing a massive database system, across dozens of states, especially where government and personal security are in play. The problems since then come down to the GOP refusing to implement the rollout in a lot of states they control, and the failure of the penalty as a deterrent for ensuring younger, healthier individuals enroll.

Do you think the penalty for non-enrollment should be more severe?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!

Black people are worse off now than they were ten years ago.

Great idea to give billions to the banking elite, first thing they did was give themselves big bonuses for losing trillions.

Benghazi was on his watch, he let terrorists go for a traitor, I could go on but can't be bothered.

Only a complete and utter moron would think Obama is a great president, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama and the country said no, that's how great he was.

The man is a decent human being, a far better one than the two arseholes who wanted has job, that said he has been a disaster and I pity the monkeys that cannot see it, so attached are they to their liberal ideals



Who pays the ten trillion back then?

I asked you before stew - what should Obama have done in terms of debt and poverty and jobs and so on, given the hand he was dealt.

The economy was losing 750K jobs a month when he took over, an absolutely extraordinary figure. Tell us what he should have done that he didn't (or what he did do that he shouldn't)?

20 million people have health insurance now that didn't before due to Obamacare (and it would be more if the GOP hadn't tried to stick to him and poor people in a number of states).

What should he have done to address the healthcare issue? The GOP negotiated in bad faith. Obamacare, their idea, is what we ended up with, but it gets the basics right with the mandate, the prohibition on pre-existing conditions penalization, extension of child coverage and so on. There is no addressing the health care problem without a mandate, as you need the buy-in from young people to fund affordable health care for the old and sick. But, a lot of people would rather pay the financial penalty and skip it, so the pool is older and sicker than it should be.

How would the world look now if McCain/Palin had won the White House?

Would it be better? If so, how?

When you say McCain / Palin, you mean McCain, as Palin would have been sidelined after the election.

Regarding McCain, he wasn't a bad candidate and had shown numerous times that he was prepared to work across the aisle so America wouldn't have been that much different that it is now, Obamacare wouldn't be in-place, but he would had dealt with the auto industry and Banks the exact same way.

Regarding foreign policy, who knows, but he voting record regarding the military was exactly the same as Hilary's so there might not be much different between the two

But who knows
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:12:54 AM
Alt right is bullshit. It's about maintaining a white majority
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/alt-right-conference-richard-spencer-white-nationalists

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum expressed alarm on Monday over "hateful speech" at a white nationalist meeting over the weekend, and a restaurant apologized for hosting the group after a woman tweeted a picture of herself making a Nazi salute.    The National Policy Institute, a think tank that is part of the alt-right movement that includes neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites, held a gathering at the federally owned Ronald Reagan Building on Saturday.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.754493

The GOP is the immigration party. It drives wages down and means higher corporate profits. See Eamonn's chart.

It's going to be Bannon vs the GOP.
There is no way to please the poor voters, the rich funders and the Nazis at the same time.

The coalition will tear itself apart.

And the swing voters who voted for Trump might be happy,  if it tears the whole rotten machine down with it forcing America to hit a reset button and reset its priorities
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 22, 2016, 03:00:23 PM
So after all that we're not going to "lock her up"

Another flip flop to go with countless before and countless other to follow!!

He was never going to pursue that. At least not if he was in any way pragmatic.

Doing so would set a serious precedent and break with tradition. Something he or his party colleagues could fall victim to himself in a few years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2016, 03:39:37 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!

Black people are worse off now than they were ten years ago.

Great idea to give billions to the banking elite, first thing they did was give themselves big bonuses for losing trillions.

Benghazi was on his watch, he let terrorists go for a traitor, I could go on but can't be bothered.

Only a complete and utter moron would think Obama is a great president, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama and the country said no, that's how great he was.

The man is a decent human being, a far better one than the two arseholes who wanted has job, that said he has been a disaster and I pity the monkeys that cannot see it, so attached are they to their liberal ideals



Who pays the ten trillion back then?

I asked you before stew - what should Obama have done in terms of debt and poverty and jobs and so on, given the hand he was dealt.

The economy was losing 750K jobs a month when he took over, an absolutely extraordinary figure. Tell us what he should have done that he didn't (or what he did do that he shouldn't)?

20 million people have health insurance now that didn't before due to Obamacare (and it would be more if the GOP hadn't tried to stick to him and poor people in a number of states).

What should he have done to address the healthcare issue? The GOP negotiated in bad faith. Obamacare, their idea, is what we ended up with, but it gets the basics right with the mandate, the prohibition on pre-existing conditions penalization, extension of child coverage and so on. There is no addressing the health care problem without a mandate, as you need the buy-in from young people to fund affordable health care for the old and sick. But, a lot of people would rather pay the financial penalty and skip it, so the pool is older and sicker than it should be.

How would the world look now if McCain/Palin had won the White House?

Would it be better? If so, how?

When you say McCain / Palin, you mean McCain, as Palin would have been sidelined after the election.

Regarding McCain, he wasn't a bad candidate and had shown numerous times that he was prepared to work across the aisle so America wouldn't have been that much different that it is now, Obamacare wouldn't be in-place, but he would had dealt with the auto industry and Banks the exact same way.

Regarding foreign policy, who knows, but he voting record regarding the military was exactly the same as Hilary's so there might not be much different between the two

But who knows

I think you're right that McCain would have gone back to his true instincts of compromise and pragmatism in some areas had he won, but he would have had to throw some bones to the Palin crew in terms of appointments and policy, probably in terms of environmental and energy issues. McCain is still a conservative after all. Would he taken the actions Obama did to speed up gay marriage and so on? Doubtful, although that was probably coming to a head anyway. And for all the whinging and fingers pointed at Obama for BLM and police shootings, that stuff was coming too, no matter who was in charge, as it was driven by technology, NOT anything coming from Washington. Foreign policy-wise, who knows? There could be US troops in Syria, if McCain (or Romney) had won. I'm pretty sure McCain would have been in Libya and all the other stuff Obama did in response to the Arab Spring. Would he have followed the Status of Forces agreement in Iraq like Obama did? Given earlier rhetoric, he might not have pursued the Iran deal, but again, that's just speculation. Being in actual position of authority and criticizing from the sidelines are two totally different things.

As for healthcare, I guess McCain could have left it unaddressed, under the excuse that the economic collapse demanded the country's attention instead. Immigration, he was badly bitten under Bush, and I doubt if he would have risked the ire of the right again by trying to address it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2016, 03:41:19 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:12:54 AM
Alt right is bullshit. It's about maintaining a white majority
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/alt-right-conference-richard-spencer-white-nationalists

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum expressed alarm on Monday over "hateful speech" at a white nationalist meeting over the weekend, and a restaurant apologized for hosting the group after a woman tweeted a picture of herself making a Nazi salute.    The National Policy Institute, a think tank that is part of the alt-right movement that includes neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites, held a gathering at the federally owned Ronald Reagan Building on Saturday.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.754493

The GOP is the immigration party. It drives wages down and means higher corporate profits. See Eamonn's chart.

It's going to be Bannon vs the GOP.
There is no way to please the poor voters, the rich funders and the Nazis at the same time.

The coalition will tear itself apart.

And the swing voters who voted for Trump might be happy,  if it tears the whole rotten machine down with it forcing America to hit a reset button and reset its priorities

So what are these desired, rethought out priorities?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 22, 2016, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 22, 2016, 03:00:23 PM
So after all that we're not going to "lock her up"

Another flip flop to go with countless before and countless other to follow!!

He was never going to pursue that. At least not if he was in any way pragmatic.

Doing so would set a serious precedent and break with tradition. Something he or his party colleagues could fall victim to himself in a few years.

Correct J70.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 04:52:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 03:41:19 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:12:54 AM
Alt right is bullshit. It's about maintaining a white majority
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/alt-right-conference-richard-spencer-white-nationalists

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum expressed alarm on Monday over "hateful speech" at a white nationalist meeting over the weekend, and a restaurant apologized for hosting the group after a woman tweeted a picture of herself making a Nazi salute.    The National Policy Institute, a think tank that is part of the alt-right movement that includes neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites, held a gathering at the federally owned Ronald Reagan Building on Saturday.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.754493

The GOP is the immigration party. It drives wages down and means higher corporate profits. See Eamonn's chart.

It's going to be Bannon vs the GOP.
There is no way to please the poor voters, the rich funders and the Nazis at the same time.

The coalition will tear itself apart.

And the swing voters who voted for Trump might be happy,  if it tears the whole rotten machine down with it forcing America to hit a reset button and reset its priorities

So what are these desired, rethought out priorities?

Washington has forgot about developing policies for the out of work / working class/ outsourced jobs. No matter what colour, race or religion you are, America is a fantastic country to live in if you have sufficient money to live, and it is probably one of the worst if you are struggling financially. People don't need benefits, they need jobs.

To that end, America needs a job creation policy that will focus on all career salary points. The compliant at the moment is that the global trade arrangements favor the outsourcing of the lower paid jobs, with trends now showing middle salaried jobs going out, and tax revenues being relocated to low tax countries. Something needs to done to address it.  Create the infrastructure jobs, lower corporate tax, even if it is only for companies with substantial business in the states (motivate companies to invest in the states, not move operations out of it)

Need to fix immigration. From my experience 99% of immigrants that come into the states either legal or not, are work hungry people, and want to get paid for a good days work. You will never see them beg. There is something wrong with a system that doesn't address this, i.e. there is a need for immigration, come up with a system to govern it effectively. Not doing this leaves the immigrants at risk of being exploited, and places a burden on the healthcare system and puts non documented communities against local communities

Education is broken. For example, the cost of college is getting out of control. If your poor, you have support, if your rich.. no problems, working and middle class, big financial drain. The fact that high school quality is related to local tax income levels needs to be addressed (Charter schools, cross school education programs)

Healthcare.. Fix the parts of Obamacare that needs fixing and move on. I believe the Republicans. would settle for the majority of Obamacare, except the name. Don't not be surprised if Trump , tidies it up, rebrands it, and sells it as a rep success.

Police.... Stop treating them as tax collectors. Stop setting policies / strategies putting the cops against communities. Sort out the f**king gun issue

Guns.... some control, just a little... this will help the police satiation as stated above

Energy... develop (or at least communicate) a technology roadmap, showing the current status to the green future. Create tax incentives for green technologies to locate in traditional fossil fuel areas, will help with those pesky switch voters
that's all for now



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 05:06:19 PM
Gay marriage is not a serious concession unless  you are gay. It doesn't cost anything. Paul Singer is one of the Scrooge McDucks running the show and he was very anti gay marriage until he found out his son was never going to find a woman. He put a lot of money behind gay marriage. But he won't yield on economic Policy. Because that is serious.

Porn is the same. Let people at it. It doesn't matter as long as you can f**k them economically.

Healthcare is nearly 20% of GDP. It is out of control. Americans pay twice as much as Irish people and have lower life expectancy. There is rent seeking every where. You cannot have competition in a health system because nobody cares about the costs.  Costs are increasing at 5% a year.

In Trump areas certain people don't even have healthcare. And of those who do work many jobs are not full time and don't come with benefits or else they are fulltime and there are no payrises because the company pays the health insurance increase and there is nothing left for the worker.

The US has a number of chronic crises coming together simultaneously and neither party will address them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2016, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 04:52:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 03:41:19 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:12:54 AM
Alt right is bullshit. It's about maintaining a white majority
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/alt-right-conference-richard-spencer-white-nationalists

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum expressed alarm on Monday over "hateful speech" at a white nationalist meeting over the weekend, and a restaurant apologized for hosting the group after a woman tweeted a picture of herself making a Nazi salute.    The National Policy Institute, a think tank that is part of the alt-right movement that includes neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites, held a gathering at the federally owned Ronald Reagan Building on Saturday.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.754493

The GOP is the immigration party. It drives wages down and means higher corporate profits. See Eamonn's chart.

It's going to be Bannon vs the GOP.
There is no way to please the poor voters, the rich funders and the Nazis at the same time.

The coalition will tear itself apart.

And the swing voters who voted for Trump might be happy,  if it tears the whole rotten machine down with it forcing America to hit a reset button and reset its priorities

So what are these desired, rethought out priorities?

Washington has forgot about developing policies for the out of work / working class/ outsourced jobs. No matter what colour, race or religion you are, America is a fantastic country to live in if you have sufficient money to live, and it is probably one of the worst if you are struggling financially. People don't need benefits, they need jobs.

To that end, America needs a job creation policy that will focus on all career salary points. The compliant at the moment is that the global trade arrangements favor the outsourcing of the lower paid jobs, with trends now showing middle salaried jobs going out, and tax revenues being relocated to low tax countries. Something needs to done to address it.  Create the infrastructure jobs, lower corporate tax, even if it is only for companies with substantial business in the states (motivate companies to invest in the states, not move operations out of it)

Need to fix immigration. From my experience 99% of immigrants that come into the states either legal or not, are work hungry people, and want to get paid for a good days work. You will never see them beg. There is something wrong with a system that doesn't address this, i.e. there is a need for immigration, come up with a system to govern it effectively. Not doing this leaves the immigrants at risk of being exploited, and places a burden on the healthcare system and puts non documented communities against local communities

Education is broken. For example, the cost of college is getting out of control. If your poor, you have support, if your rich.. no problems, working and middle class, big financial drain. The fact that high school quality is related to local tax income levels needs to be addressed (Charter schools, cross school education programs)

Healthcare.. Fix the parts of Obamacare that needs fixing and move on. I believe the Republicans. would settle for the majority of Obamacare, except the name. Don't not be surprised if Trump , tidies it up, rebrands it, and sells it as a rep success.

Police.... Stop treating them as tax collectors. Stop setting policies / strategies putting the cops against communities. Sort out the f**king gun issue

Guns.... some control, just a little... this will help the police satiation as stated above

Energy... develop (or at least communicate) a technology roadmap, showing the current status to the green future. Create tax incentives for green technologies to locate in traditional fossil fuel areas, will help with those pesky switch voters
that's all for now

You think the people who voted for Trump want all or even a significant chunk of all that?

(I agree with you BTW!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2016, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 05:06:19 PM
Gay marriage is not a serious concession unless  you are gay. It doesn't cost anything. Paul Singer is one of the Scrooge McDucks running the show and he was very anti gay marriage until he found out his son was never going to find a woman. He put a lot of money behind gay marriage. But he won't yield on economic Policy. Because that is serious.

If it is such a trivial issue, why have the GOP exploited it so much as a wedge issue over the past 10-15 years?

Granted, society, as a whole, is moving past it, but that doesn't mean the religious base of the GOP is. Just wait until the Scalia replacement hearings begin and how a potential Justice's views might offer an opportunity to send the issue back to the states.

Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 05:06:19 PM
Porn is the same. Let people at it. It doesn't matter as long as you can f**k them economically.

Yes, but it hasn't really been much of a campaign issue at any stage.

Seemingly even the GOP base likes to watch a bit of filth now and again!

Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 05:06:19 PM
Healthcare is nearly 20% of GDP. It is out of control. Americans pay twice as much as Irish people and have lower life expectancy. There is rent seeking every where. You cannot have competition in a health system because nobody cares about the costs.  Costs are increasing at 5% a year.

In Trump areas certain people don't even have healthcare. And of those who do work many jobs are not full time and don't come with benefits or else they are fulltime and there are no payrises because the company pays the health insurance increase and there is nothing left for the worker.

The US has a number of chronic crises coming together simultaneously and neither party will address them.

Obamacare tried to address the insurance side of it for the lower income people (subsidies, Medicaid) and those who don't get it through work. Unfortunately, too many people and politicians don't want to be a part of fixing it, partly for partisan, political reasons.

And many people don't give a shit about the ludicrous costs of healthcare because their employer provides it as a benefit in the first place. So there's no pressure to keep the costs down. And its amazing how much they vary by location, which kind of torpedoes the idea that buying insurance across state lines will suddenly solve everything. If you buy a cheap policy in Oklahoma, will it cover costs for an NYC resident in an NYC hospital?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 05:27:46 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 22, 2016, 03:05:29 PM
so strange things happen every day, and seafoid I agree with a number of your points.

78 sowed the seeds, and thatcher in 79 with reagan to follow were the seeds whose bounty we reap today.

Few things I disagree with though, Palley- just in general, his own neo or post keynesian economic theory, doesn't hold up to inspection IMHO. no thought given to the macro-societal and micro-local factors in deriving utility used in models, and along with everyone else the traditional time miss. The single biggest issue with modern economists is the cherry picking of causes that promote the economist's standing in the academic and peer community. You now have the tools to model successfully, but the will to be possibly proved wrong is not there. Kevin Murphy at Booth is an exception and has put his money very successfully where his mouth is.

I would argue that the one way out of the current economic malaise for the US is:

1) a tax overhaul on capital gains, corporate profits, carried interest, profit earned abroad, loophole closing and a complete moratorium on political donations.  Overhaul of Charity, trust and educational for profit qualifications. huge GDP increase.
2) the rules for healthcare provision, education and benefits should be removed completely from the state and imposed and standardized at federal levels. adds to GDP
3) temporarily add to the debt. Impose a complete overhaul of the crumbling US infrastructure from transport, to communications and all else. self funding.
4) a new version of the GI bill, except instead of just military service, a national service for all work relating to above infrastructure projects, all employees FT, healthcare, free education, pension.self funding.
5) The US immigration system is broken, although it actually meets very closely the economic needs of the United States, the legal immigration system does not support it, and that impacts the immigration needs of the economy. adds to GDP

Blue collar jobs, white collar jobs, improved infrastructure, multiplier effect, education improvements, lower benefits costs, increased employment where most impacted. Domestic economy accelerated.

Chances of current politicians voting for this zero.
Some very good ideas there.

There has to be support for demand and particularly payrises. Revenues have been falling for 5 quarters so it is also a Wall St problem. The system has hit a wall.  QE is deflationary.

And that means putting smacht on debt. Because debt v workers is a zero sum game and only payrises can get the economy going again. For everyone.

Corporate earnings are at record highs as a % of GDP yet deflation is the order of the day for workers. That ain't right. 
Debt will have to be taxed. Start off taxing interest and work from there.

In terms of companies we need debt to equity swaps to undo the damage caused by buybacks.

We also need a new economic system. Thatcherism is nonsense cos it cannot deliver economic growth. There is just too much debt.
And it mostly all belongs to a tiny minority.  I was looking st the numbers. $7tn cash, $7tn passive, $12 tn negative yield Basically $26 tn doing nothing.

The UK is in a hole now with no hope of escap ing it because the richest 1% own 50% of everything

In the US campaign finance reform is a must.

In southern States education cannot be funded any longer from property taxes in a chaotic economy that crashes every 10 or 12 years.

All the elements of change are there but the 1% control the money and the politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 05:58:08 PM
I wouldn't be too picky about Palley. He said QE wouldn't work and it doesn't. We need new thinking.
And there has to be a political movement to deliver it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 07:37:43 PM
Trump hasn't had a press conference in 2 weeks
He's bypassing the media

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xX_KaStFT8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2016, 09:26:26 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

(http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/uploads/1/deficittogdppctwoevents_001.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 22, 2016, 09:30:28 PM
g it looks like it was Bush who pushed spending through the roof, to a point it cant be clawed back..!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2016, 09:56:11 PM
Dick Cheney told us that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.

(And then they turned around and kept the costs of the Iraq war off the books).

Its only when Obama came in that the right suddenly discovered their distaste for deficit spending.

I wouldn't fault Bush for the increase in deficit spending in 08 and 09 - it was a historic economic crash that shrunk revenue and threw millions out of work and homes. I just can't stand the hypocrisy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 04:52:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 03:41:19 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:12:54 AM
Alt right is bullshit. It's about maintaining a white majority
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/alt-right-conference-richard-spencer-white-nationalists

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum expressed alarm on Monday over "hateful speech" at a white nationalist meeting over the weekend, and a restaurant apologized for hosting the group after a woman tweeted a picture of herself making a Nazi salute.    The National Policy Institute, a think tank that is part of the alt-right movement that includes neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites, held a gathering at the federally owned Ronald Reagan Building on Saturday.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.754493

The GOP is the immigration party. It drives wages down and means higher corporate profits. See Eamonn's chart.

It's going to be Bannon vs the GOP.
There is no way to please the poor voters, the rich funders and the Nazis at the same time.

The coalition will tear itself apart.

And the swing voters who voted for Trump might be happy,  if it tears the whole rotten machine down with it forcing America to hit a reset button and reset its priorities

So what are these desired, rethought out priorities?

Washington has forgot about developing policies for the out of work / working class/ outsourced jobs. No matter what colour, race or religion you are, America is a fantastic country to live in if you have sufficient money to live, and it is probably one of the worst if you are struggling financially. People don't need benefits, they need jobs.

To that end, America needs a job creation policy that will focus on all career salary points. The compliant at the moment is that the global trade arrangements favor the outsourcing of the lower paid jobs, with trends now showing middle salaried jobs going out, and tax revenues being relocated to low tax countries. Something needs to done to address it.  Create the infrastructure jobs, lower corporate tax, even if it is only for companies with substantial business in the states (motivate companies to invest in the states, not move operations out of it)

Need to fix immigration. From my experience 99% of immigrants that come into the states either legal or not, are work hungry people, and want to get paid for a good days work. You will never see them beg. There is something wrong with a system that doesn't address this, i.e. there is a need for immigration, come up with a system to govern it effectively. Not doing this leaves the immigrants at risk of being exploited, and places a burden on the healthcare system and puts non documented communities against local communities

Education is broken. For example, the cost of college is getting out of control. If your poor, you have support, if your rich.. no problems, working and middle class, big financial drain. The fact that high school quality is related to local tax income levels needs to be addressed (Charter schools, cross school education programs)

Healthcare.. Fix the parts of Obamacare that needs fixing and move on. I believe the Republicans. would settle for the majority of Obamacare, except the name. Don't not be surprised if Trump , tidies it up, rebrands it, and sells it as a rep success.

Police.... Stop treating them as tax collectors. Stop setting policies / strategies putting the cops against communities. Sort out the f**king gun issue

Guns.... some control, just a little... this will help the police satiation as stated above

Energy... develop (or at least communicate) a technology roadmap, showing the current status to the green future. Create tax incentives for green technologies to locate in traditional fossil fuel areas, will help with those pesky switch voters
that's all for now

You think the people who voted for Trump want all or even a significant chunk of all that?

(I agree with you BTW!)

The important Trump voters are the swing voters. to that end I would say that;
Jobs - Yes
Education yes
Healthcare yes
immigration - yes
Guns - no
Police - yes
Energy - no / maybe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2016, 11:19:11 PM
Republicans claim to hate big government spending and debt when they're in opposition, but as soon as they get their grubby hands on the purse strings they quickly become the big spenders and borrowers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on November 23, 2016, 03:04:47 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!



Who has it been a disaster for? My sister in law  was diagnosed with cancer last year. Up until Obamacare she went through life without insurance,  being a self employed, depending on trainee students when she needed dental care. Obamacare was the only thing that enabled her to get insurance and have her cancer treated. Her family are all Republicans that hate Obama. She is alive thanks to her treatment. They still hate Obama. America is a very strange country.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on November 23, 2016, 04:15:26 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 04:52:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 03:41:19 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 22, 2016, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2016, 11:12:54 AM
Alt right is bullshit. It's about maintaining a white majority
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/alt-right-conference-richard-spencer-white-nationalists

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum expressed alarm on Monday over "hateful speech" at a white nationalist meeting over the weekend, and a restaurant apologized for hosting the group after a woman tweeted a picture of herself making a Nazi salute.    The National Policy Institute, a think tank that is part of the alt-right movement that includes neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites, held a gathering at the federally owned Ronald Reagan Building on Saturday.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.754493

The GOP is the immigration party. It drives wages down and means higher corporate profits. See Eamonn's chart.

It's going to be Bannon vs the GOP.
There is no way to please the poor voters, the rich funders and the Nazis at the same time.

The coalition will tear itself apart.

And the swing voters who voted for Trump might be happy,  if it tears the whole rotten machine down with it forcing America to hit a reset button and reset its priorities

So what are these desired, rethought out priorities?

Washington has forgot about developing policies for the out of work / working class/ outsourced jobs. No matter what colour, race or religion you are, America is a fantastic country to live in if you have sufficient money to live, and it is probably one of the worst if you are struggling financially. People don't need benefits, they need jobs.

To that end, America needs a job creation policy that will focus on all career salary points. The compliant at the moment is that the global trade arrangements favor the outsourcing of the lower paid jobs, with trends now showing middle salaried jobs going out, and tax revenues being relocated to low tax countries. Something needs to done to address it.  Create the infrastructure jobs, lower corporate tax, even if it is only for companies with substantial business in the states (motivate companies to invest in the states, not move operations out of it)

Need to fix immigration. From my experience 99% of immigrants that come into the states either legal or not, are work hungry people, and want to get paid for a good days work. You will never see them beg. There is something wrong with a system that doesn't address this, i.e. there is a need for immigration, come up with a system to govern it effectively. Not doing this leaves the immigrants at risk of being exploited, and places a burden on the healthcare system and puts non documented communities against local communities

Education is broken. For example, the cost of college is getting out of control. If your poor, you have support, if your rich.. no problems, working and middle class, big financial drain. The fact that high school quality is related to local tax income levels needs to be addressed (Charter schools, cross school education programs)

Healthcare.. Fix the parts of Obamacare that needs fixing and move on. I believe the Republicans. would settle for the majority of Obamacare, except the name. Don't not be surprised if Trump , tidies it up, rebrands it, and sells it as a rep success.

Police.... Stop treating them as tax collectors. Stop setting policies / strategies putting the cops against communities. Sort out the f**king gun issue

Guns.... some control, just a little... this will help the police satiation as stated above

Energy... develop (or at least communicate) a technology roadmap, showing the current status to the green future. Create tax incentives for green technologies to locate in traditional fossil fuel areas, will help with those pesky switch voters
that's all for now

Good post Kickham nailed everything  very well. Would slighly disagree with you on energy but wont get into it... On the immigrants I would back that up, most of the homeless and beggars I see here (socal) are white and black, even tho the population is overwhelmingly Mexican you dont see many of them homeless, also very few Oriental homeless despite a large population.
My own opinion is that the California economy could take aright kicking if people begin to be deported en mass, tho I dont beleive we will see this happen on a scale large enough to make an economic difference.
I think we may well see a wall tho, as pointless as it would be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 23, 2016, 07:23:27 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on November 23, 2016, 03:04:47 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on November 21, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Obama was a great president and I think will rightly go down in history as such. I think he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Kennedy and FDR in years to come. A true compassionate leader.

Pity he didn't get a 20 year term. It's sad so many Americans (and Irish apparently) are so naive and weak minded that they can be brainwashed into thinking he was a poor president. Obamination" is the mutterings of a total utter gobshite.

10 trillion debt in eight years, more than every other president combined makes him an absolute nightmare of a president, how is the country going to recover from that?

Obamacare has been a disaster, the rollout sums up this clampetts presidency, a total clusterfuck!



Who has it been a disaster for? My sister in law  was diagnosed with cancer last year. Up until Obamacare she went through life without insurance,  being a self employed, depending on trainee students when she needed dental care. Obamacare was the only thing that enabled her to get insurance and have her cancer treated. Her family are all Republicans that hate Obama. She is alive thanks to her treatment. They still hate Obama. America is a very strange country.

The middle class, I am delighted your sister in law is on the mend, )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 23, 2016, 07:44:24 AM
I have no time for illegal immigrants however I am appalled at the thought of ripping people out of the country and deporting them.

What I would advocate is kicking out the criminal element and leave the vast majority alone, have them apply for green cards and give them legal status.

America has to tighten its borders, it cannot let people in who would cause the country harm, Clinton was fine with letting anyone in no matter the cost and she lost!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2016, 09:36:54 AM
White supremacy is nonsense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl3JCYxLvDI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 23, 2016, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 07:44:24 AM
I have no time for illegal immigrants however I am appalled at the thought of ripping people out of the country and deporting them.

What I would advocate is kicking out the criminal element and leave the vast majority alone, have them apply for green cards and give them legal status.

America has to tighten its borders, it cannot let people in who would cause the country harm, Clinton was fine with letting anyone in no matter the cost and she lost!

Where is this notion that she was going to let "anyone" in. . . Yes she would let in more people than Trump but big deal?!

Legal immigration is not the problem in America!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 23, 2016, 10:48:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 23, 2016, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 07:44:24 AM
I have no time for illegal immigrants however I am appalled at the thought of ripping people out of the country and deporting them.

What I would advocate is kicking out the criminal element and leave the vast majority alone, have them apply for green cards and give them legal status.

America has to tighten its borders, it cannot let people in who would cause the country harm, Clinton was fine with letting anyone in no matter the cost and she lost!

Where is this notion that she was going to let "anyone" in. . . Yes she would let in more people than Trump but big deal?!

Legal immigration is not the problem in America!!

It would have been if she had let tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims into the country.

She is letting no one in anymore )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 23, 2016, 11:21:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 09:56:11 PM
Dick Cheney told us that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.

(And then they turned around and kept the costs of the Iraq war off the books).

Its only when Obama came in that the right suddenly discovered their distaste for deficit spending.

I would argue ten trillion by yourself is excessive, especially when you outspend the forty odd before you by yourself and the country is still weak!

I wouldn't fault Bush for the increase in deficit spending in 08 and 09 - it was a historic economic crash that shrunk revenue and threw millions out of work and homes. I just can't stand the hypocrisy.

Cheney is a revolting bastard and worst. VP of all time.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 23, 2016, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 10:48:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 23, 2016, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 07:44:24 AM
I have no time for illegal immigrants however I am appalled at the thought of ripping people out of the country and deporting them.

What I would advocate is kicking out the criminal element and leave the vast majority alone, have them apply for green cards and give them legal status.

America has to tighten its borders, it cannot let people in who would cause the country harm, Clinton was fine with letting anyone in no matter the cost and she lost!

Where is this notion that she was going to let "anyone" in. . . Yes she would let in more people than Trump but big deal?!

Legal immigration is not the problem in America!!

It would have been if she had let tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims into the country.

She is letting no one in anymore )

What "tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 23, 2016, 12:56:41 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 11:21:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 09:56:11 PM
Dick Cheney told us that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.

(And then they turned around and kept the costs of the Iraq war off the books).

Its only when Obama came in that the right suddenly discovered their distaste for deficit spending.

I would argue ten trillion by yourself is excessive, especially when you outspend the forty odd before you by yourself and the country is still weak!

I wouldn't fault Bush for the increase in deficit spending in 08 and 09 - it was a historic economic crash that shrunk revenue and threw millions out of work and homes. I just can't stand the hypocrisy.

Cheney is a revolting b**tard and worst. VP of all time.

Obama has added almost 8 trillion, not 10, unless you're giving Bush a pass on FY 2009, which began four months prior to Obama's inauguration.

Regardless, even it we do take 10 as the figure, you've still not given realistic answers to what he should have done under the circumstances. Economic catastrophe and massive military commitments, along with the large baby boomer cohort moving into retirement and drawing social security and Medicare... those are the big drivers of the debt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 23, 2016, 01:54:37 PM
So, will there be a recount in 3 states?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 23, 2016, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 10:48:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 23, 2016, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 07:44:24 AM
I have no time for illegal immigrants however I am appalled at the thought of ripping people out of the country and deporting them.

What I would advocate is kicking out the criminal element and leave the vast majority alone, have them apply for green cards and give them legal status.

America has to tighten its borders, it cannot let people in who would cause the country harm, Clinton was fine with letting anyone in no matter the cost and she lost!

Where is this notion that she was going to let "anyone" in. . . Yes she would let in more people than Trump but big deal?!

Legal immigration is not the problem in America!!

It would have been if she had let tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims into the country.

She is letting no one in anymore )

What "tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims"?
[/quote

The Syrian Muslims that could not prove who they claimed to be.

It was reported by her own media she wanted 60,000 of these people running around under her watch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 23, 2016, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 23, 2016, 01:54:37 PM
So, will there be a recount in 3 states?

Doubt it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:57:30 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 23, 2016, 01:54:37 PM
So, will there be a recount in 3 states?

No.

If the roles were reversed, Trump would be losing it completely, while Fox and the outrage machinery would be crying conspiracy and Soros and all the rest.

Wonder where the bold, brave Seamus is. He was fretting, after all, about fraud and Soros voting machines costing Trump an electoral victory while he won the popular vote. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: weareros on November 23, 2016, 03:28:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 12:56:41 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 11:21:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2016, 09:56:11 PM
Dick Cheney told us that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.

(And then they turned around and kept the costs of the Iraq war off the books).

Its only when Obama came in that the right suddenly discovered their distaste for deficit spending.

I would argue ten trillion by yourself is excessive, especially when you outspend the forty odd before you by yourself and the country is still weak!

I wouldn't fault Bush for the increase in deficit spending in 08 and 09 - it was a historic economic crash that shrunk revenue and threw millions out of work and homes. I just can't stand the hypocrisy.

Cheney is a revolting b**tard and worst. VP of all time.

Obama has added almost 8 trillion, not 10, unless you're giving Bush a pass on FY 2009, which began four months prior to Obama's inauguration.

Regardless, even it we do take 10 as the figure, you've still not given realistic answers to what he should have done under the circumstances. Economic catastrophe and massive military commitments, along with the large baby boomer cohort moving into retirement and drawing social security and Medicare... those are the big drivers of the debt.

Of course, the big joke about the deficit is that Trump's planned tax cuts and infrastructure spending is going to send the US deficit into orbit. But the Republicans will be introducing a new way of measuring it called Dynamic Scoring, or in other words changing the goalposts. So while they hammer Obama for a deficit that was driven up by Bush's policies (financial and housing crisis, paying for wars in middle east on fault reporting of weapons of mass destruction), they will now drive up the deficit but subtract from that the projected future growth because of the policies. It's the football equivalent of being 10 points down at half time but declaring victory because you'll eat into their lead in the second half.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TheOptimist on November 23, 2016, 05:26:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Was the irony in this statement deliberate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2016, 05:31:02 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/25/the-shocking-number-of-americans-who-cant-cover-a-400-expense/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 23, 2016, 07:40:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 23, 2016, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 23, 2016, 01:54:37 PM
So, will there be a recount in 3 states?

Doubt it.

Given the amount of foreign interference in the run up to the election and the obsession that the Trump camp had with Hillary's email server security carelessness; surely, a wee audit of the voting machines in Wisconsin is not too much to ask.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2016, 08:34:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.
http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/walrus.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 24, 2016, 02:03:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Stupid bastards are hurting their own.children!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2016, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Serious question: How much do Charter schools cost versus public schools?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:12:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Serious question: How much do Charter schools cost versus public schools?

A fraction.....but like Dr Gruber did with Obamacare they make things so fvcking complicated and "tortured" no one ends up really knowing or agreeing

Charter schools benefit the poorest of the poor, but they threaten the very powerful teachers unions so Democrats are generally against them.

www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/09/08/the-charter-school-bargain/vpN9lPWkMJFkl5p8bqUdoO/amp.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2016, 03:19:37 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:12:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Serious question: How much do Charter schools cost versus public schools?

A fraction.....but like Dr Gruber did with Obamacare they make things so fvcking complicated and "tortured" no one ends up really knowing or agreeing

Charter schools benefit the poorest of the poor, but they threaten the very powerful teachers unions so Democrats are generally against them.

www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/09/08/the-charter-school-bargain/vpN9lPWkMJFkl5p8bqUdoO/amp.html

That article says both Hillary and Obama are for Chater Schools (I have to admit I never heard for them). I can see why the teachers unions would have a problem with them, but that shouldn't stop them being introduced if they are as successful and cheap as the data suggests.

We have an issue in Ireland, with the Catholic schools resistance to Educate Together Schools (http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0908/815049-educate-together/) (http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0908/815049-educate-together/)). While there are plenty of good Catholic schools around, the Educate Together schools are terrific.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 24, 2016, 03:25:36 AM
If they are as successful and cheap as the billionaires say they are probably a pig in a poke. US education is shit. Standardised testing is crap. The proof is in what Bannon and Trump did with the GOP vote. Getting people to vote against their own interest again and again  takes years of prep work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 24, 2016, 04:00:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:12:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Serious question: How much do Charter schools cost versus public schools?

A fraction.....but like Dr Gruber did with Obamacare they make things so fvcking complicated and "tortured" no one ends up really knowing or agreeing

Charter schools benefit the poorest of the poor, but they threaten the very powerful teachers unions so Democrats are generally against them.

www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/09/08/the-charter-school-bargain/vpN9lPWkMJFkl5p8bqUdoO/amp.html

Unfortunately the pros and cons and widely varying impacts of charter schools are beyond the sound bite stage. As a general rule the success of a charter school is directly related to the amount of money it attracts in addition to its actual budget. A well funded school (any school) performs well. A charter school needs funding for the music, science, comp sci and non core projects. Those that receive additional funds out perform. Those that can't afford to pay their teachers underperform. Anyone care to post any theories on where they succeed and fail?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 24, 2016, 05:41:14 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 24, 2016, 04:00:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:12:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Serious question: How much do Charter schools cost versus public schools?

A fraction.....but like Dr Gruber did with Obamacare they make things so fvcking complicated and "tortured" no one ends up really knowing or agreeing

Charter schools benefit the poorest of the poor, but they threaten the very powerful teachers unions so Democrats are generally against them.

www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/09/08/the-charter-school-bargain/vpN9lPWkMJFkl5p8bqUdoO/amp.html

Unfortunately the pros and cons and widely varying impacts of charter schools are beyond the sound bite stage. As a general rule the success of a charter school is directly related to the amount of money it attracts in addition to its actual budget. A well funded school (any school) performs well. A charter school needs funding for the music, science, comp sci and non core projects. Those that receive additional funds out perform. Those that can't afford to pay their teachers underperform. Anyone care to post any theories on where they succeed and fail?
It must be related to racial superiority.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 24, 2016, 09:38:18 AM
John Oliver did a piece about it a few weeks ago . . . probably a bit too lefty for some tastes but he explains it very well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:57:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 24, 2016, 09:38:18 AM
John Oliver did a piece about it a few weeks ago . . . probably a bit too lefty for some tastes but he explains it very well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I

Like most topics, there's 2 sides to this and the truth is probably somewhere in between.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 24, 2016, 11:19:39 AM
Job-stealing CHING CHONGS. Get out and go back to communist land"
These anti-Asian leaflets were left behind by Trump supporters.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx5f_zzUUAEe0cG.jpg)

Interesting choice on the education front alright -here's and excerpt from an article from one of the ideological circles in which the new Education Sec travels.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx_rWDOUkAAVha4.jpg:large)

Also Carson's thoughts on housing
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/ben-carson-has-weighed-housing-policy-integration (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/ben-carson-has-weighed-housing-policy-integration)

It's gonna be a bumpy ride!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 24, 2016, 11:21:04 AM
these are the same powerful unions that got gutted in Wisconsin?

Charter schools only work when the state regulations are strict - otherwise for profit charters do the same race to the bottom as any unregulated industry.

Oh but wait, Superstar DJ thinks that for every one new regulation, two old ones should be scrapped.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 24, 2016, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 24, 2016, 11:19:39 AM
Job-stealing CHING CHONGS. Get out and go back to communist land"
These anti-Asian leaflets were left behind by Trump supporters.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx5f_zzUUAEe0cG.jpg)

Interesting choice on the education front alright -here's and excerpt from an article from one of the ideological circles in which the new Education Sec travels.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx_rWDOUkAAVha4.jpg:large)

Also Carson's thoughts on housing
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/ben-carson-has-weighed-housing-policy-integration (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/ben-carson-has-weighed-housing-policy-integration)

It's gonna be a bumpy ride!!!

Declan have you ever once put a photo up on here were liberals were being racist or behaving like those Trump supporting scumbags? Just wondering like!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:39:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Its all very easy for charter schools when they refuse to take on the more troubled and lower achieving youngsters, leaving those for the public schools.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 24, 2016, 12:46:42 PM
If the US doesn't support demand the economy will collapse. Charter schools are a waste of time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb34jE-Uf6k
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 10:48:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 23, 2016, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2016, 07:44:24 AM
I have no time for illegal immigrants however I am appalled at the thought of ripping people out of the country and deporting them.

What I would advocate is kicking out the criminal element and leave the vast majority alone, have them apply for green cards and give them legal status.

America has to tighten its borders, it cannot let people in who would cause the country harm, Clinton was fine with letting anyone in no matter the cost and she lost!

Where is this notion that she was going to let "anyone" in. . . Yes she would let in more people than Trump but big deal?!

Legal immigration is not the problem in America!!

It would have been if she had let tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims into the country.

She is letting no one in anymore )

What "tens of thousands of unvetted Muslims"?

The Syrian Muslims that could not prove who they claimed to be.

It was reported by her own media she wanted 60,000 of these people running around under her watch.

Where did Hillary propose admitting all those people without vetting?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:39:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Its all very easy for charter schools when they refuse to take on the more troubled and lower achieving youngsters, leaving those for the public schools.

Exactly....so the conundrum is you either leave them all in the $hit or you attempt to help the ones who can be helped
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 24, 2016, 02:50:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 23, 2016, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 23, 2016, 01:54:37 PM
So, will there be a recount in 3 states?

Doubt it.

Dear lord this NY Magazine has gone through the Chinese Whispers machine and now Twitter is lighting up with "Strong evidence suggests election was rigged against Clinton in key states". INDO being the main culprits!

The guy named in it has come out since the NY Magazine article has clarified that he actually thinks Trump won the election but that the threat of hacking is real and that there should be better checks put in place to make sure the paper ballots tally with what the computer says (mainly due to the sophistication of the Russian hacking system) and a recount of some states would be a good way of doing that . . .

I don't think Hillary's reputation could withstand her demanding a recount however if she donated the extra $5m to Steins campaign for the recounts it would be interesting. Not sure it would change much though!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 24, 2016, 03:18:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 24, 2016, 02:50:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 23, 2016, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 23, 2016, 01:54:37 PM
So, will there be a recount in 3 states?

Doubt it.

Dear lord this NY Magazine has gone through the Chinese Whispers machine and now Twitter is lighting up with "Strong evidence suggests election was rigged against Clinton in key states". INDO being the main culprits!

The guy named in it has come out since the NY Magazine article has clarified that he actually thinks Trump won the election but that the threat of hacking is real and that there should be better checks put in place to make sure the paper ballots tally with what the computer says (mainly due to the sophistication of the Russian hacking system) and a recount of some states would be a good way of doing that . . .

I don't think Hillary's reputation could withstand her demanding a recount however if she donated the extra $5m to Steins campaign for the recounts it would be interesting. Not sure it would change much though!

Imagine if the result got overturned, there would be a bloodbath in the streets if that happened.

She will content herself with the fact he will not have her and the foundation under investigation, she would be crazy to interfere with the results at this juncture.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 24, 2016, 03:30:17 PM
there are two research groups suggesting that there were some irregularities - one group AFAIK is recommending recounts, the other is saying that an audit should be done of the results in order to identify weak spots for future reference.

I think the "smoking gun" if it can be called so, is that apparently Hillary's returns were on average 7% down in districts that had networked machines as opposed to those districts that relied on mechanical ballots - I think that was in Wisconsin (apols if not). Anyway Superstar DJ won the state by 27,000 votes - the 7% differential could account for a 30,000 vote swing, though if there was a problem, you wouldn't expect all the votes in that swing could be accounted for by fraud.

The margin in Michigan is so small that no matter the result, a recount will probably happen. In Wisconsin and Pennsylvania the margins are larger. The odds of a three state recount awarding all three to Hillary are so astronomical that there doesn't seem to be any upside to her calling for a recount, though Stein is a useful surrogate.

If a recount were to award her the presidency, I can't see how Trump supporters would accept it - and given the circumstances, you'd have to have sympathy with them. The only way voter fraud gives her the White House is if it is proven, if it is Russian based, and if there is a rock solid evidential connection between the Russian hackers and the Trump campaign. The third is the most important of the three, because without it, there is no way a President Hillary would have any chance of claiming legitimacy.

Hoping for an overtime Hail Mary is a nice daydream to indulge in, but that way civil war lies. Even if the FBI and the DOJ came out and said that DJ was on the fiddle, who would believe them given the politics both departments engaged in during the campaign?

And of course, all this ignores the very real rigging of elections in the US through the gutting of the Voters Right Act by the Supreme Court and the subsequent actions by GOP controlled states to remove the franchise from minorities. Given the fact that Hispanics actually voted for Trump in large numbers, and that the black community seems disillusioned with the Dems, the far more sensible tactic is to try and bring 30% of each demographic under a broad based Republican coalition, rather than opting for a Whites-only, shining city on a hill - which is like lemmings buying holiday homes on the cliffs of Moher.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 24, 2016, 03:59:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

She won largely in densely populated areas, I think the shit she pulled on Saunders sickened enough of his supporters they put Trump over the top.

Both parties in a state of flux, the democrat candidate blames a republican in the FBI for the loss, God forbid she look inward and hold herself accountable for her actions.

Until both parties come to terms with what just happened and own their situations they will struggle to grow from the incredible campaign we all just witnessed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 24, 2016, 03:59:32 PM
It's only Stein and the researchers calling for it, Hillary hasn't.

But please, don't let that stop you calling everyone cvnts. Lovely level of discourse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 04:02:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

Placing students at GW university in the care of a Trump administration police force is an "act of violence"

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/30076/

Honestly - where do you start with this? The demands list is unreal!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 24, 2016, 04:04:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

Had Hillary won the election we would have seen the exact same thing. I wouldn't have been surprised if a few Trump supporters shot the place up!

You know full well that had Hillary won the rhetoric/protests/revolution would have been far worse than it is currently... Especially had the race been close so please spare us your faux outrage!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

On the contrary, a recount in a close race is as democratic as it gets.

And we all know which party has a proven record of trying to deny democracy.

Why are you so anti-democracy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 04:13:16 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 24, 2016, 11:19:39 AM

Also Carson's thoughts on housing
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/ben-carson-has-weighed-housing-policy-integration (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/ben-carson-has-weighed-housing-policy-integration)

It's gonna be a bumpy ride!!!
Uncle Ben is very much cut from the same cloth as Uncle Tom (Sowell).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 24, 2016, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

On the contrary, a recount in a close race is as democratic as it gets.

And we all know which party has a proven record of trying to deny democracy.

Why are you so anti-democracy?

The democrats of course, rigged election hurting Sanders helping Clinton, please, the democrats are rotten to their core, they lost and are paying for their corruption.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 24, 2016, 05:04:58 PM
Let's be realistic. Odds on the recount overturning are virtually nil. However there is a significant voting issue in the US of gerrymandering by both parties. Minorities are indeed marginalized.
I do believe Trump won the electoral college and I would be shocked if two of the three states returned a different result. If there is an expose of just how open the system is to rigging then all well and good, be it cyber attack be Russia or otherwise.


The real issue on the current system should be obvious at this point. It has become acceptable to the US public for trump to be president.

That has happened because the complete and utter sense of helplessness and frustration with the current system has been expressed in the only way it could. The election of the dumbest least qualified candidate in the race since the start and probably in history. For someone so obviously self interested to be elected taps into the American dream complex, where the deference that the British show the royals is given to the so called self made man. It trumps common sense self interest and the interests of the country at large.
What would have been the reaction to president elect Clintons foundation admitting fraud. What would be the reaction to Chelsea Clinton attending a meeting with a head of state advertising her goods. What would be the, oh what's the point? The old white rich guys are at it again with a mandate to do whatever is in their self interest. Same as it ever was.
The genius is finding a new way to do it every time. The poorest 20% are worse of than the servants in a country house ever were. At least their masters took responsibility for their health and well being. You work 3 jobs just to pay taxes and rent. You feed your children crap and don't educate them and then can't afford to help them when they get sick.  Your vote is worthless and you believe whatever crock of shit you are being fed at the time. But don't worry, there is still the American dream. You could be the next Steve Jobs!
Happy Thanksgiving! Go watch some NFL on a TV you can't afford in a $200 authentic Redskins shirt, and go to bed early so you can go increase your debt to the banks at 5am tomorrow on falsely advertised "sale prices"
I'm thankful for the good quality free education I received and that I retained the bullshit detector and healthy sense of scepticism that is my natural birth right as an Irish citizen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 24, 2016, 05:08:38 PM
QuoteI'm thankful for the good quality free education I received and that I retained the bullshit detector and healthy sense of scepticism that is my natural birth right as an Irish citizen.

Good line HB
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:39:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Its all very easy for charter schools when they refuse to take on the more troubled and lower achieving youngsters, leaving those for the public schools.

Exactly....so the conundrum is you either leave them all in the $hit or you attempt to help the ones who can be helped

So you just abandon the rest?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 05:09:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 24, 2016, 04:04:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

Had Hillary won the election we would have seen the exact same thing. I wouldn't have been surprised if a few Trump supporters shot the place up!

You know full well that had Hillary won the rhetoric/protests/revolution would have been far worse than it is currently... Especially had the race been close so please spare us your faux outrage!!!!


If the FBI had sat on the Weiner laptop scandal and it came out after the fact (and Trump had lost)   no doubt that armed bands would have taken to the streets

I'm not outraged by the current outrage, but I'm outraged at the lack if outrage from the perennially outraged
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: stew on November 24, 2016, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

On the contrary, a recount in a close race is as democratic as it gets.

And we all know which party has a proven record of trying to deny democracy.

Why are you so anti-democracy?

The democrats of course, rigged election hurting Sanders helping Clinton, please, the democrats are rotten to their core, they lost and are paying for their corruption.

If you are so against corruption stew, let's hope you're currently concerned about the moves Trump is making regarding his foreign business entanglements in his dealings with foreign leaders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 24, 2016, 05:18:16 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 24, 2016, 05:04:58 PM
Let's be realistic. Odds on the recount overturning are virtually nil. However there is a significant voting issue in the US of gerrymandering by both parties. Minorities are indeed marginalized.
I do believe Trump won the electoral college and I would be shocked if two of the three states returned a different result. If there is an expose of just how open the system is to rigging then all well and good, be it cyber attack be Russia or otherwise.


The real issue on the current system should be obvious at this point. It has become acceptable to the US public for trump to be president.

That has happened because the complete and utter sense of helplessness and frustration with the current system has been expressed in the only way it could. The election of the dumbest least qualified candidate in the race since the start and probably in history. For someone so obviously self interested to be elected taps into the American dream complex, where the deference that the British show the royals is given to the so called self made man. It trumps common sense self interest and the interests of the country at large.
What would have been the reaction to president elect Clintons foundation admitting fraud. What would be the reaction to Chelsea Clinton attending a meeting with a head of state advertising her goods. What would be the, oh what's the point? The old white rich guys are at it again with a mandate to do whatever is in their self interest. Same as it ever was.
The genius is finding a new way to do it every time. The poorest 20% are worse of than the servants in a country house ever were. At least their masters took responsibility for their health and well being. You work 3 jobs just to pay taxes and rent. You feed your children crap and don't educate them and then can't afford to help them when they get sick.  Your vote is worthless and you believe whatever crock of shit you are being fed at the time. But don't worry, there is still the American dream. You could be the next Steve Jobs!
Happy Thanksgiving! Go watch some NFL on a TV you can't afford in a $200 authentic Redskins shirt, and go to bed early so you can go increase your debt to the banks at 5am tomorrow on falsely advertised "sale prices"
I'm thankful for the good quality free education I received and that I retained the bullshit detector and healthy sense of scepticism that is my natural birth right as an Irish citizen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 24, 2016, 05:28:40 PM
Looks like Stein will raise the sufficient money to get the recount!! FUnny I checked it an hour ago and they only had $2.9 now they have $3.5 so shouldn't take long to get to the $4.5m needed...

Looking forward to seeing how this pans out!! Will the Trumpers protest if this recount goes against them?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 05:31:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 24, 2016, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

On the contrary, a recount in a close race is as democratic as it gets.

And we all know which party has a proven record of trying to deny democracy.

Why are you so anti-democracy?

The democrats of course, rigged election hurting Sanders helping Clinton, please, the democrats are rotten to their core, they lost and are paying for their corruption.
Was this the primaries, in which Clinton got over 3.7 million more votes than Sanders?

Funny how you consider an election where Clinton won despite getting over 3.7 million more votes than her opponent to be "rigged", but don't consider there to be any problems with an election system where Clinton got over 2 million votes more than her opponent and lost!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 24, 2016, 05:45:36 PM
And it always will while the election system stays the same.  The system seems be arranged so there is a quick result.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 24, 2016, 05:47:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit
Whitey if the Dems organised 1600 twitter accounts to send 2.6 million of the most vile antisemitic messages to Jewish journalists and all around the web and the Chief dem strategist was associated with a conference where people gave the Nazi salute yu might have a point.

You poor shnowflake

If you want proper bullshit how about this
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/technology/fact-check-this-pizzeria-is-not-a-child-trafficking-site.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 24, 2016, 06:01:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 24, 2016, 05:28:40 PM
Looks like Stein will raise the sufficient money to get the recount!! FUnny I checked it an hour ago and they only had $2.9 now they have $3.5 so shouldn't take long to get to the $4.5m needed...

Looking forward to seeing how this pans out!! Will the Trumpers protest if this recount goes against them?!
dont think trump does rent a protester like the dems do.
The cops doing hours and hours of overtime keeping an eye on the protests are the ones who are really winning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 05:09:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 24, 2016, 04:04:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

Had Hillary won the election we would have seen the exact same thing. I wouldn't have been surprised if a few Trump supporters shot the place up!

You know full well that had Hillary won the rhetoric/protests/revolution would have been far worse than it is currently... Especially had the race been close so please spare us your faux outrage!!!!


If the FBI had sat on the Weiner laptop scandal and it came out after the fact (and Trump had lost)   no doubt that armed bands would have taken to the streets

I'm not outraged by the current outrage, but I'm outraged at the lack if outrage from the perennially outraged

B-b-but didn't you say you would have voted for Hillary if you were in a swing State?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Yes....I did make that statement. And AFTER I made it, it came out that the maid was printing the classified emails, Chelsea paid for her wedding from Clinton Foundation Funds, 650000 emails were in Weiners laptop, DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta.....and a few other campaign derailing scandals I've since forgotten about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:52:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:39:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Its all very easy for charter schools when they refuse to take on the more troubled and lower achieving youngsters, leaving those for the public schools.

Exactly....so the conundrum is you either leave them all in the $hit or you attempt to help the ones who can be helped

So you just abandon the rest?

The Democrats have.  This appointment was a master stroke by Trump....fanning my the flames of civil unrest within the Democratic Party
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:56:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2016, 05:47:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit
Whitey if the Dems organised 1600 twitter accounts to send 2.6 million of the most vile antisemitic messages to Jewish journalists and all around the web and the Chief dem strategist was associated with a conference where people gave the Nazi salute yu might have a point.

You poor shnowflake

If you want proper bullshit how about this
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/technology/fact-check-this-pizzeria-is-not-a-child-trafficking-site.html

Given that the Dems have the mainstream media shilling for them at every turn I really don't care that the Repubs are fighting fire with fire. As I told Muppett a few weeks ago, you're now dealing with brass knuckle Republicans, not country club republicans. Marquis of Queensbury rules don't apply
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2016, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Yes....I did make that statement. And AFTER I made it, it came out that the maid was printing the classified emails, Chelsea paid for her wedding from Clinton Foundation Funds, 650000 emails were in Weiners laptop, DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta.....and a few other campaign detailing scandals I've since forgotten about

650,000 emails in Weniers laptop? What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

Chelsea paid for her wedding...etc. What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

DOJ officials emailing Podesta....What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?


Here are some specific accusations against Trump:

Sexual assault (Numerous - Case with Jill Harth settled out of court)
Massive fraud (settled out of court)
Marital Rape
Illegal use of his Charity Foundation
Racism (Allegations by Beuaty Pageant contestants, DOJ New York accused him and his father of racial housing discrimination, Trump Plaza fined $200,000 for 'keeping black employees always from a mafia Don's table', etc)
Intimidation of tenants in New York
Bankruptcy 4 times - which he still denies

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 24, 2016, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Yes....I did make that statement. And AFTER I made it, it came out that the maid was printing the classified emails, Chelsea paid for her wedding from Clinton Foundation Funds, 650000 emails were in Weiners laptop, DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta.....and a few other campaign derailing scandals I've since forgotten about

often disagree with you, but I  had thought you were smarter than that.

Master strokes are manipulation of press and the electorate. You hear what you want to hear, same as me.

Both candidates were a disaster but lets compare like with like

security clearance issues- trumps kids and should have gone to Jarrod same issue.
foundation- trump has admitted illegal use of funds to IRS- clinton allegation is still just that
is that the same emails that have already been found many times and with which the FBI had no issues
FBI emailing Rudy Guiliani tips?

Politicizing the FBI is a disgrace by both parties
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2016, 07:11:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:56:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2016, 05:47:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit
Whitey if the Dems organised 1600 twitter accounts to send 2.6 million of the most vile antisemitic messages to Jewish journalists and all around the web and the Chief dem strategist was associated with a conference where people gave the Nazi salute yu might have a point.

You poor shnowflake

If you want proper bullshit how about this
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/technology/fact-check-this-pizzeria-is-not-a-child-trafficking-site.html

Given that the Dems have the mainstream media shilling for them at every turn I really don't care that the Repubs are fighting fire with fire. As I told Muppett a few weeks ago, you're now dealing with brass knuckle Republicans, not country club republicans. Marquis of Queensbury rules don't apply

It is not just the 'mainstream media' or 'the Dems', it is the vast majority of the rest of the world. With the exception of Putin, a few of his allies and the Brexit Xenophobes. At what point does the real problem begin to dawn on poeple?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 24, 2016, 07:30:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:56:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2016, 05:47:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit
Whitey if the Dems organised 1600 twitter accounts to send 2.6 million of the most vile antisemitic messages to Jewish journalists and all around the web and the Chief dem strategist was associated with a conference where people gave the Nazi salute yu might have a point.

You poor shnowflake

If you want proper bullshit how about this
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/technology/fact-check-this-pizzeria-is-not-a-child-trafficking-site.html

Given that the Dems have the mainstream media shilling for them at every turn I really don't care that the Repubs are fighting fire with fire. As I told Muppett a few weeks ago, you're now dealing with brass knuckle Republicans, not country club republicans. Marquis of Queensbury rules don't apply

So macho Whitey. What is it about conservatives, they always seem to be overcompensating for something. They should just have a nice cry for themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:49:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 24, 2016, 07:30:14 PM
So macho Whitey. What is it about conservatives, they always seem to be overcompensating for something. They should just have a nice cry for themselves.

Maybe all those democrats lamenting the election result can teach them how to do cry circles and lend them those puppies to hug.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.

Obviously you want people who are successful in your cabinet. He helped beat the Democrats so he must have something to offer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 24, 2016, 07:30:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:56:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2016, 05:47:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit
Whitey if the Dems organised 1600 twitter accounts to send 2.6 million of the most vile antisemitic messages to Jewish journalists and all around the web and the Chief dem strategist was associated with a conference where people gave the Nazi salute yu might have a point.

You poor shnowflake

If you want proper bullshit how about this
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/technology/fact-check-this-pizzeria-is-not-a-child-trafficking-site.html

Given that the Dems have the mainstream media shilling for them at every turn I really don't care that the Repubs are fighting fire with fire. As I told Muppett a few weeks ago, you're now dealing with brass knuckle Republicans, not country club republicans. Marquis of Queensbury rules don't apply

So macho Whitey. What is it about conservatives, they always seem to be overcompensating for something. They should just have a nice cry for themselves.

Lol....nothing to do with conservatives my friend. It's actually a widely used political term

https://aboveaverage.com/is-hillary-going-to-wear-those-brass-knuckles-at-the-debate/

" said Clinton's campaign manager, Robby Mook. "But as far as the brass knuckles go, we've had some talks with her about those and it seems like she feels pretty strongly about keeping them on."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 24, 2016, 09:16:03 PM
Are you happy with an out and out racist as chief advisor to the president?   If you are happy to accept warts an all for the sake that "He helped beat the democrats" then fair enough but don't be dressing it up bells and all!

Another thing, the majority of people commenting on, or reading this thread don't live in the states, but are constantly referred to or assumed to be liberals or democrats.  I actually think having blind loyalty to a political party like some football team is one of the strangest things.  Maybe just maybe people are concerned that extreme right wing rhetoric is becoming the norm for electioneering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:19:28 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 24, 2016, 09:16:03 PM
Are you happy with an out and out racist as chief advisor to the president?   If you are happy to accept warts an all for the sake that "He helped beat the democrats" then fair enough but don't be dressing it up bells and all!

Another thing, the majority of people commenting on, or reading this thread don't live in the states, but are constantly referred to or assumed to be liberals or democrats.  I actually think having blind loyalty to a political party like some football team is one of the strangest things.  Maybe just maybe people are concerned that extreme right wing rhetoric is becoming the norm for electioneering.

I'm not happy with any of it.....I just find it highly amusing that the Democrats are so outraged that the Republicans are using Democratic tactics on them.....and it's working
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Yes....I did make that statement. And AFTER I made it, it came out that the maid was printing the classified emails, Chelsea paid for her wedding from Clinton Foundation Funds, 650000 emails were in Weiners laptop, DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta.....and a few other campaign detailing scandals I've since forgotten about

650,000 emails in Weniers laptop? What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

Chelsea paid for her wedding...etc. What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

DOJ officials emailing Podesta....What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?


Here are some specific accusations against Trump:

Sexual assault (Numerous - Case with Jill Harth settled out of court)
Massive fraud (settled out of court)
Marital Rape
Illegal use of his Charity Foundation
Racism (Allegations by Beuaty Pageant contestants, DOJ New York accused him and his father of racial housing discrimination, Trump Plaza fined $200,000 for 'keeping black employees always from a mafia Don's table', etc)
Intimidation of tenants in New York
Bankruptcy 4 times - which he still denies

DOJ official giving a "heads up" to Podesta from a personal email address.....that compromises and invalidates the entire email investigation (and the resultant decision not to charge her)

Emails....we've already discussed that......you obviously don't know anyone in the military if you think that's not a big deal

Chelsea wedding....Clinton Foundation is simply a scheme designed to enrich the Clintons as they sell access
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
A message from Bush Brightshaw, America's NUMBER ONE conservative talk show host!

A Trump Thanksgiving!

Well howdy there folks, and a happy Thanksgiving to y'all. And what a beautiful Thanksgiving it is, the happiest, most beautiful Thanksgiving y'ever gonna have, believe me. We've won back the White House, and it's gonna be the most beautiful, whitest White House y'ever seen, oh yeah.

So enjoy the football (go Cowboys!), enjoy the festivities, enjoy singin' the Star Spangled banner with the most pride y'ever sung it with, and enjoy the turkey, cos it's gonna be the biggest turkey y'all have ever seen, a beautiful big giant Trump turkey!

And in celebration of this very special Trump Thanksgiving, here's a lil' 'ol verse I wrote mahself, I just coooh'nt help myself, Ahh'm so happeh, folks.

I'm dreaming of a White Thanksgiving,
Just like the ones I used to know
Where the whites have power, and the blackman cowers
Oh how I long for old Jim Crow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
With every new law that Trump writes
With Obama's reign in its twilight
May all of your Thanksgivings be white

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Just like the ones I used to know
With a giant Trump turkey, and elections murky
May liberal flakes fall in the snow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Our dominance is our birthright
We'll lock Clinton up just out of spite
And may all your Thanksgivings be white
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 25, 2016, 12:10:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
A message from Bush Brightshaw, America's NUMBER ONE conservative talk show host!

A Trump Thanksgiving!

Well howdy there folks, and a happy Thanksgiving to y'all. And what a beautiful Thanksgiving it is, the happiest, most beautiful Thanksgiving y'ever gonna have, believe me. We've won back the White House, and it's gonna be the most beautiful, whitest White House y'ever seen, oh yeah.

So enjoy the football (go Cowboys!), enjoy the festivities, enjoy singin' the Star Spangled banner with the most pride y'ever sung it with, and enjoy the turkey, cos it's gonna be the biggest turkey y'all have ever seen, a beautiful big giant Trump turkey!

And in celebration of this very special Trump Thanksgiving, here's a lil' 'ol verse I wrote mahself, I just coooh'nt help myself, Ahh'm so happeh, folks.

I'm dreaming of a White Thanksgiving,
Just like the ones I used to know
Where the whites have power, and the blackman cowers
Oh how I long for old Jim Crow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
With every new law that Trump writes
With Obama's reign in its twilight
May all of your Thanksgivings be white

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Just like the ones I used to know
With a giant Trump turkey, and elections murky
May liberal flakes fall in the snow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Our dominance is our birthright
We'll lock Clinton up just out of spite
And may all your Thanksgivings be white

Say it ain't so!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 25, 2016, 04:28:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
A message from Bush Brightshaw, America's NUMBER ONE conservative talk show host!

A Trump Thanksgiving!

Well howdy there folks, and a happy Thanksgiving to y'all. And what a beautiful Thanksgiving it is, the happiest, most beautiful Thanksgiving y'ever gonna have, believe me. We've won back the White House, and it's gonna be the most beautiful, whitest White House y'ever seen, oh yeah.

So enjoy the football (go Cowboys!), enjoy the festivities, enjoy singin' the Star Spangled banner with the most pride y'ever sung it with, and enjoy the turkey, cos it's gonna be the biggest turkey y'all have ever seen, a beautiful big giant Trump turkey!

And in celebration of this very special Trump Thanksgiving, here's a lil' 'ol verse I wrote mahself, I just coooh'nt help myself, Ahh'm so happeh, folks.

I'm dreaming of a White Thanksgiving,
Just like the ones I used to know
Where the whites have power, and the blackman cowers
Oh how I long for old Jim Crow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
With every new law that Trump writes
With Obama's reign in its twilight
May all of your Thanksgivings be white

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Just like the ones I used to know
With a giant Trump turkey, and elections murky
May liberal flakes fall in the snow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Our dominance is our birthright
We'll lock Clinton up just out of spite
And may all your Thanksgivings be white
.Sid I think you need a website. That is superb.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 25, 2016, 08:19:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 25, 2016, 04:28:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
A message from Bush Brightshaw, America's NUMBER ONE conservative talk show host!

A Trump Thanksgiving!

Well howdy there folks, and a happy Thanksgiving to y'all. And what a beautiful Thanksgiving it is, the happiest, most beautiful Thanksgiving y'ever gonna have, believe me. We've won back the White House, and it's gonna be the most beautiful, whitest White House y'ever seen, oh yeah.

So enjoy the football (go Cowboys!), enjoy the festivities, enjoy singin' the Star Spangled banner with the most pride y'ever sung it with, and enjoy the turkey, cos it's gonna be the biggest turkey y'all have ever seen, a beautiful big giant Trump turkey!

And in celebration of this very special Trump Thanksgiving, here's a lil' 'ol verse I wrote mahself, I just coooh'nt help myself, Ahh'm so happeh, folks.

I'm dreaming of a White Thanksgiving,
Just like the ones I used to know
Where the whites have power, and the blackman cowers
Oh how I long for old Jim Crow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
With every new law that Trump writes
With Obama's reign in its twilight
May all of your Thanksgivings be white

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Just like the ones I used to know
With a giant Trump turkey, and elections murky
May liberal flakes fall in the snow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Our dominance is our birthright
We'll lock Clinton up just out of spite
And may all your Thanksgivings be white
.Sid I think you need a website. That is superb.

Its drivel, that said Clinton would be getting locked up in prison because she deserves to be locked up in,prison on many fronts, not the least is the email scandal, Benghazi, the Clinton foundation or the fact she is a war monger, not out if spite!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 25, 2016, 09:59:47 AM
Quote from: stew on November 25, 2016, 08:19:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 25, 2016, 04:28:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 24, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
A message from Bush Brightshaw, America's NUMBER ONE conservative talk show host!

A Trump Thanksgiving!

Well howdy there folks, and a happy Thanksgiving to y'all. And what a beautiful Thanksgiving it is, the happiest, most beautiful Thanksgiving y'ever gonna have, believe me. We've won back the White House, and it's gonna be the most beautiful, whitest White House y'ever seen, oh yeah.

So enjoy the football (go Cowboys!), enjoy the festivities, enjoy singin' the Star Spangled banner with the most pride y'ever sung it with, and enjoy the turkey, cos it's gonna be the biggest turkey y'all have ever seen, a beautiful big giant Trump turkey!

And in celebration of this very special Trump Thanksgiving, here's a lil' 'ol verse I wrote mahself, I just coooh'nt help myself, Ahh'm so happeh, folks.

I'm dreaming of a White Thanksgiving,
Just like the ones I used to know
Where the whites have power, and the blackman cowers
Oh how I long for old Jim Crow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
With every new law that Trump writes
With Obama's reign in its twilight
May all of your Thanksgivings be white

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Just like the ones I used to know
With a giant Trump turkey, and elections murky
May liberal flakes fall in the snow

I'm dreaming of a white Thanksgiving
Our dominance is our birthright
We'll lock Clinton up just out of spite
And may all your Thanksgivings be white
.Sid I think you need a website. That is superb.

Its drivel, that said Clinton would be getting locked up in prison because she deserves to be locked up in,prison on many fronts, not the least is the email scandal, Benghazi, the Clinton foundation or the fact she is a war monger, not out if spite!

Well no because the emails and Benghazi have already been investigated to death to find no wrongdoing... I'm not sure the story with the Clinton Foundation but I'll be pretty sure there will be nothing to see there either.

You need to get over it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.

Obviously you want people who are successful in your cabinet. He helped beat the Democrats so he must have something to offer.

So his tenure promoting the alt-right point of view at Breitbart is just fine with you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:45:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:19:28 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 24, 2016, 09:16:03 PM
Are you happy with an out and out racist as chief advisor to the president?   If you are happy to accept warts an all for the sake that "He helped beat the democrats" then fair enough but don't be dressing it up bells and all!

Another thing, the majority of people commenting on, or reading this thread don't live in the states, but are constantly referred to or assumed to be liberals or democrats.  I actually think having blind loyalty to a political party like some football team is one of the strangest things.  Maybe just maybe people are concerned that extreme right wing rhetoric is becoming the norm for electioneering.

I'm not happy with any of it.....I just find it highly amusing that the Democrats are so outraged that the Republicans are using Democratic tactics on them.....and it's working

Seriously, what are you on about with this "nice, country club Republicans" horseshit?

Have you been asleep or not interested/paying attention over the past 25 years?

Over even the past eight?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:52:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:39:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Lol.....I see his choice for Education Secretary is pro School Choice i.e. Pro Charter School

This will drive them out of their mind


http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/18/naacp-tells-black-parents-keep-kids-crappy-schools-leverage-hike-taxes/

"Black and Hispanic students who attended charter schools in [New York City] for eight years closed the achievement gap with affluent suburbs like Scarsdale by 86% in math and 66% in English

Its all very easy for charter schools when they refuse to take on the more troubled and lower achieving youngsters, leaving those for the public schools.

Exactly....so the conundrum is you either leave them all in the $hit or you attempt to help the ones who can be helped

So you just abandon the rest?

The Democrats have.  This appointment was a master stroke by Trump....fanning my the flames of civil unrest within the Democratic Party

How have the Democrats abandoned the rest of these kids?

How have the GOP tried to help them?

Public schools HAVE to take them. Charters can just either not accept them or kick them out.

And its good that you're impressed that Trump is supposedly trying to tear the Dems apart instead of addressing real problems (although I'm not sure how this or any of his other appointments are tearing Dems apart - they're all par for the course from what I can see and to be expected from someone who ran the campaign he did.)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 25, 2016, 01:24:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:45:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:19:28 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 24, 2016, 09:16:03 PM
Are you happy with an out and out racist as chief advisor to the president?   If you are happy to accept warts an all for the sake that "He helped beat the democrats" then fair enough but don't be dressing it up bells and all!

Another thing, the majority of people commenting on, or reading this thread don't live in the states, but are constantly referred to or assumed to be liberals or democrats.  I actually think having blind loyalty to a political party like some football team is one of the strangest things.  Maybe just maybe people are concerned that extreme right wing rhetoric is becoming the norm for electioneering.

I'm not happy with any of it.....I just find it highly amusing that the Democrats are so outraged that the Republicans are using Democratic tactics on them.....and it's working

Seriously, what are you on about with this "nice, country club Republicans" horseshit?

Have you been asleep or not interested/paying attention over the past 25 years?

Over even the past eight?

You know I'm right....that's why it's driving you mad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 25, 2016, 02:43:28 PM
The US spends far too much money on health and far too little on education.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2016, 02:45:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Yes....I did make that statement. And AFTER I made it, it came out that the maid was printing the classified emails, Chelsea paid for her wedding from Clinton Foundation Funds, 650000 emails were in Weiners laptop, DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta.....and a few other campaign detailing scandals I've since forgotten about

650,000 emails in Weniers laptop? What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

Chelsea paid for her wedding...etc. What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

DOJ officials emailing Podesta....What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?


Here are some specific accusations against Trump:

Sexual assault (Numerous - Case with Jill Harth settled out of court)
Massive fraud (settled out of court)
Marital Rape
Illegal use of his Charity Foundation
Racism (Allegations by Beuaty Pageant contestants, DOJ New York accused him and his father of racial housing discrimination, Trump Plaza fined $200,000 for 'keeping black employees always from a mafia Don's table', etc)
Intimidation of tenants in New York
Bankruptcy 4 times - which he still denies

DOJ official giving a "heads up" to Podesta from a personal email address.....that compromises and invalidates the entire email investigation (and the resultant decision not to charge her)

Emails....we've already discussed that......you obviously don't know anyone in the military if you think that's not a big deal

Chelsea wedding....Clinton Foundation is simply a scheme designed to enrich the Clintons as they sell access

As I guessed, you have no particular accusation that you can make against Hillary. Unlike Trump. That doesn't stop you from being completely outraged by Hillary and happy to keep turning a blind eye to the very, very obvious problem you have tread for yourselves.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 25, 2016, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2016, 02:45:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Yes....I did make that statement. And AFTER I made it, it came out that the maid was printing the classified emails, Chelsea paid for her wedding from Clinton Foundation Funds, 650000 emails were in Weiners laptop, DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta.....and a few other campaign detailing scandals I've since forgotten about

650,000 emails in Weniers laptop? What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

Chelsea paid for her wedding...etc. What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

DOJ officials emailing Podesta....What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?


Here are some specific accusations against Trump:

Sexual assault (Numerous - Case with Jill Harth settled out of court)
Massive fraud (settled out of court)
Marital Rape
Illegal use of his Charity Foundation
Racism (Allegations by Beuaty Pageant contestants, DOJ New York accused him and his father of racial housing discrimination, Trump Plaza fined $200,000 for 'keeping black employees always from a mafia Don's table', etc)
Intimidation of tenants in New York
Bankruptcy 4 times - which he still denies

DOJ official giving a "heads up" to Podesta from a personal email address.....that compromises and invalidates the entire email investigation (and the resultant decision not to charge her)

Emails....we've already discussed that......you obviously don't know anyone in the military if you think that's not a big deal

Chelsea wedding....Clinton Foundation is simply a scheme designed to enrich the Clintons as they sell access

As I guessed, you have no particular accusation that you can make against Hillary. Unlike Trump. That doesn't stop you from being completely outraged by Hillary and happy to keep turning a blind eye to the very, very obvious problem you have tread for yourselves.

It's the court of public opinion that counts, and Hillarys constant lying and dishonesty caught up with her and cost her the election (and the Supreme Court)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 25, 2016, 03:01:17 PM
Whitey is aptly named. He is the last polar bear on the last piece of shrinking ice, screaming "I'm right, I'm right." The court of public opinion won't be much use when it is under water.

In the meantime - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/25/arctic-ice-melt-trigger-uncontrollable-climate-change-global-level

At this stage of the game, denying global warming or appointing climate deniers like Myron Ebell are crimes against humanity. I know you get a warm feeling from sticking it to the liberal cucks - but in 10 years time - just 10 years - it's going to be a lot warmer.

The Republicans are intent on destroying the climate for short term financial and political gain. But I don't think even they truly know what "short-term" means. They (and all of us) are about to get a lesson in it.

This is truly dire. As citizens of this planet, in the free democracies we have a duty to make an issue of the environment and vote for the politicians who have its protection as core planks in their platform.

We are goosed otherwise. I've said before I have a five year old son. I dread to think the world that he will be in when he is 40.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 03:05:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 25, 2016, 01:24:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:45:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:19:28 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 24, 2016, 09:16:03 PM
Are you happy with an out and out racist as chief advisor to the president?   If you are happy to accept warts an all for the sake that "He helped beat the democrats" then fair enough but don't be dressing it up bells and all!

Another thing, the majority of people commenting on, or reading this thread don't live in the states, but are constantly referred to or assumed to be liberals or democrats.  I actually think having blind loyalty to a political party like some football team is one of the strangest things.  Maybe just maybe people are concerned that extreme right wing rhetoric is becoming the norm for electioneering.

I'm not happy with any of it.....I just find it highly amusing that the Democrats are so outraged that the Republicans are using Democratic tactics on them.....and it's working

Seriously, what are you on about with this "nice, country club Republicans" horseshit?

Have you been asleep or not interested/paying attention over the past 25 years?

Over even the past eight?

You know I'm right....that's why it's driving you mad

Whitey, spare us the juvenile "outrage" bullshit and address the point. 

Over the past 15-20 years, we've had the GOP exploiting "patriotism" after 9-11, we've had the swiftboating of John Kerry, we've had birtherism, death panels, the witch hunts against Bill Clinton, the umpteen "investigations" into Benghazi and tonnes of other bare-knuckle, partisan, vacuous grandstanding, conspiracy theorizing/endorsing and "scandal" hyping.

So if the Dems are far worse, make the case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 25, 2016, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2016, 02:45:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Yes....I did make that statement. And AFTER I made it, it came out that the maid was printing the classified emails, Chelsea paid for her wedding from Clinton Foundation Funds, 650000 emails were in Weiners laptop, DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta.....and a few other campaign detailing scandals I've since forgotten about

650,000 emails in Weniers laptop? What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

Chelsea paid for her wedding...etc. What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

DOJ officials emailing Podesta....What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?


Here are some specific accusations against Trump:

Sexual assault (Numerous - Case with Jill Harth settled out of court)
Massive fraud (settled out of court)
Marital Rape
Illegal use of his Charity Foundation
Racism (Allegations by Beuaty Pageant contestants, DOJ New York accused him and his father of racial housing discrimination, Trump Plaza fined $200,000 for 'keeping black employees always from a mafia Don's table', etc)
Intimidation of tenants in New York
Bankruptcy 4 times - which he still denies

DOJ official giving a "heads up" to Podesta from a personal email address.....that compromises and invalidates the entire email investigation (and the resultant decision not to charge her)

Emails....we've already discussed that......you obviously don't know anyone in the military if you think that's not a big deal

Chelsea wedding....Clinton Foundation is simply a scheme designed to enrich the Clintons as they sell access

As I guessed, you have no particular accusation that you can make against Hillary. Unlike Trump. That doesn't stop you from being completely outraged by Hillary and happy to keep turning a blind eye to the very, very obvious problem you have tread for yourselves.

It's the court of public opinion that counts, and Hillarys constant lying and dishonesty caught up with her and cost her the election (and the Supreme Court)

So you are saying that media hype and facebook and twitter memes count more than actual facts?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2016, 03:21:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 25, 2016, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2016, 02:45:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Yes....I did make that statement. And AFTER I made it, it came out that the maid was printing the classified emails, Chelsea paid for her wedding from Clinton Foundation Funds, 650000 emails were in Weiners laptop, DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta.....and a few other campaign detailing scandals I've since forgotten about

650,000 emails in Weniers laptop? What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

Chelsea paid for her wedding...etc. What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

DOJ officials emailing Podesta....What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?


Here are some specific accusations against Trump:

Sexual assault (Numerous - Case with Jill Harth settled out of court)
Massive fraud (settled out of court)
Marital Rape
Illegal use of his Charity Foundation
Racism (Allegations by Beuaty Pageant contestants, DOJ New York accused him and his father of racial housing discrimination, Trump Plaza fined $200,000 for 'keeping black employees always from a mafia Don's table', etc)
Intimidation of tenants in New York
Bankruptcy 4 times - which he still denies

DOJ official giving a "heads up" to Podesta from a personal email address.....that compromises and invalidates the entire email investigation (and the resultant decision not to charge her)

Emails....we've already discussed that......you obviously don't know anyone in the military if you think that's not a big deal

Chelsea wedding....Clinton Foundation is simply a scheme designed to enrich the Clintons as they sell access

As I guessed, you have no particular accusation that you can make against Hillary. Unlike Trump. That doesn't stop you from being completely outraged by Hillary and happy to keep turning a blind eye to the very, very obvious problem you have tread for yourselves.

It's the court of public opinion that counts, and Hillarys constant lying and dishonesty caught up with her and cost her the election (and the Supreme Court)

Conveniently, that isn't a real court.

But we are talking about your view of the world. Trump lied, bigoted and mysogynised his way to power, but you have no problem with him, because HILLARY something something - keep shouting until they go away......

It will be interesting to hear Trump supporters views in a couple of years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 25, 2016, 03:23:49 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 25, 2016, 03:01:17 PM
Whitey is aptly named. He is the last polar bear on the last piece of shrinking ice, screaming "I'm right, I'm right." The court of public opinion won't be much use when it is under water.

In the meantime - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/25/arctic-ice-melt-trigger-uncontrollable-climate-change-global-level

At this stage of the game, denying global warming or appointing climate deniers like Myron Ebell are crimes against humanity. I know you get a warm feeling from sticking it to the liberal cucks - but in 10 years time - just 10 years - it's going to be a lot warmer.

The Republicans are intent on destroying the climate for short term financial and political gain. But I don't think even they truly know what "short-term" means. They (and all of us) are about to get a lesson in it.

This is truly dire. As citizens of this planet, in the free democracies we have a duty to make an issue of the environment and vote for the politicians who have its protection as core planks in their platform.

We are goosed otherwise. I've said before I have a five year old son. I dread to think the world that he will be in when he is 40.
Ebell is an enemy of humanity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 25, 2016, 04:43:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2016, 03:21:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 25, 2016, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2016, 02:45:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2016, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Yes....I did make that statement. And AFTER I made it, it came out that the maid was printing the classified emails, Chelsea paid for her wedding from Clinton Foundation Funds, 650000 emails were in Weiners laptop, DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta.....and a few other campaign detailing scandals I've since forgotten about

650,000 emails in Weniers laptop? What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

Chelsea paid for her wedding...etc. What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?

DOJ officials emailing Podesta....What is the specific crime you are accusing Hillary of there?


Here are some specific accusations against Trump:

Sexual assault (Numerous - Case with Jill Harth settled out of court)
Massive fraud (settled out of court)
Marital Rape
Illegal use of his Charity Foundation
Racism (Allegations by Beuaty Pageant contestants, DOJ New York accused him and his father of racial housing discrimination, Trump Plaza fined $200,000 for 'keeping black employees always from a mafia Don's table', etc)
Intimidation of tenants in New York
Bankruptcy 4 times - which he still denies

DOJ official giving a "heads up" to Podesta from a personal email address.....that compromises and invalidates the entire email investigation (and the resultant decision not to charge her)

Emails....we've already discussed that......you obviously don't know anyone in the military if you think that's not a big deal

Chelsea wedding....Clinton Foundation is simply a scheme designed to enrich the Clintons as they sell access

As I guessed, you have no particular accusation that you can make against Hillary. Unlike Trump. That doesn't stop you from being completely outraged by Hillary and happy to keep turning a blind eye to the very, very obvious problem you have tread for yourselves.

It's the court of public opinion that counts, and Hillarys constant lying and dishonesty caught up with her and cost her the election (and the Supreme Court)

Conveniently, that isn't a real court.

But we are talking about your view of the world. Trump lied, bigoted and mysogynised his way to power, but you have no problem with him, because HILLARY something something - keep shouting until they go away......

It will be interesting to hear Trump supporters views in a couple of years.

Who ever said I have no problem with Trump. I did not vote for him in either the primary or the general election and I did not donate any money to his campaign.  I would have liked to see John Kasich up against Bernie....but Bernie got cheated and John Kasich would not have taken the "brass knuckles" to Hillary and would have been beaten.  So while I'm not exactly happy about Trump winning, I am happy that Hillary got beaten.  I am also somewhat  happy that the Democrats have possibly painted ghemselves into a corner for a generation.....my only concern is that the Republicans will fvvknit up like they did under Bush
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM
How have the Dems painted themselves into a corner for a generation?

What happens when all these working class whites everyone is venerating discover that Trump and the GOP were/are full of shit, and the jobs lost to automation are not magically coming back, their roofers and landscapers still speak Spanish, gays can still walk the streets with impunity, blacks are not going to resume being quiet about racism, healthcare is still expensive, and the GOP only really cares about tax-cuts for the rich, loosening the reins on Wall Street?

I guess the GOP can still fall back on "they're coming for your guns", but sooner or later some sense has to prevail. THEY have to put their money where their mouth is and govern, after all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 25, 2016, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM
How have the Dems painted themselves into a corner for a generation?

What happens when all these working class whites everyone is venerating discover that Trump and the GOP were/are full of shit, and the jobs lost to automation are not magically coming back, their roofers and landscapers still speak Spanish, gays can still walk the streets with impunity, blacks are not going to resume being quiet about racism, healthcare is still expensive, and the GOP only really cares about tax-cuts for the rich, loosening the reins on Wall Street?

I guess the GOP can still fall back on "they're coming for your guns", but sooner or later some sense has to prevail. THEY have to put their money where their mouth is and govern, after all.

Next midterms are very favorable to Republicans....I believe Democrats  need to defend 10 Senate seats in States that Trump won. If Trump does a half way decent job, they may find it hard to hold onto what they currently have

If Trump gets 2/3 supreme court picks, cases involving Democratic hot button topics such as campaign finance reform and voter "suppression" may have favorable outcomes for Republicans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 25, 2016, 05:20:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM

I guess the GOP can still fall back on "they're coming for your guns", but sooner or later some sense has to prevail. THEY have to put their money where their mouth is and govern, after all.

13,000 gun deaths in the USA every year, and the NRA is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the USA.

Somebody should set up the National Suicide Bombing Belt Association (NSBBA) and turn it into a powerful lobby group - somebody needs to lobby for the owners of suicide bombing belts.

If US citizens should have the right to carry a gun, they should have the right to wear a suicide bombing belt too.

Suicide bombing belts don't kill people, people do!

And just like nuclear weapons, they can only be ever used on the principle of MAD (mutually assured destruction), so are much safer than guns in ensuring the safety of the populace.

I look forward to mature, civilised political discourse on this between open carry and closed carry proponents of suicide bombing belts.

But one thing's for sure - only from the cold, dead hands* of a suicide bombing belt owner, will that suicide bombing belt be taken away.

To freedom!

*Likely lying 50 feet away from the rest of their body.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 25, 2016, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM
How have the Dems painted themselves into a corner for a generation?

What happens when all these working class whites everyone is venerating discover that Trump and the GOP were/are full of shit, and the jobs lost to automation are not magically coming back, their roofers and landscapers still speak Spanish, gays can still walk the streets with impunity, blacks are not going to resume being quiet about racism, healthcare is still expensive, and the GOP only really cares about tax-cuts for the rich, loosening the reins on Wall Street?

I guess the GOP can still fall back on "they're coming for your guns", but sooner or later some sense has to prevail. THEY have to put their money where their mouth is and govern, after all.

Next midterms are very favorable to Republicans....I believe Democrats  need to defend 10 Senate seats in States that Trump won. If Trump does a half way decent job, they may find it hard to hold onto what they currently have

If Trump gets 2/3 supreme court picks, cases involving Democratic hot button topics such as campaign finance reform and voter "suppression" may have favorable outcomes for Republicans

Yet, historically, presidents get pummeled in mid- terms (98 with it's Gingrich/impeachment backlash, and 02 with its 9/11 fervour, being exceptions). The GOP advantage may mitigate that, as may Trump's actual or perceived performance, but that hardly means that the Dems are done for a generation. 2020 will in turn bring vulnerable GOP senate seats following their 2014 wins, and Trump will be on the ballot again.

But, assuming for the sake of argument that you are right, losing out can drive a movement in the long run. Is it a coincidence that the GOP ruled the 80s in the aftermath of Roe v Wade? Simplistic, maybe, in that it took a very charismatic GOP presidential candidate beating a poorly skilled and hapless Dem one, but the whole moral majority movement fueled the Republican ascendency for nearly 20 years, and then again under GW Bush. The GOP powers that he may have cared more about profits and deregulation, but they could not have achieved what they did without harnessing that section of society.

Trump and/or Ryan/GOP overreach could easily see a similar backlash, which can only be good for the Dems. It's easier to sit and point and criticize than it is to govern.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 05:26:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 25, 2016, 05:20:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM

I guess the GOP can still fall back on "they're coming for your guns", but sooner or later some sense has to prevail. THEY have to put their money where their mouth is and govern, after all.

13,000 gun deaths in the USA every year, and the NRA is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the USA.

Somebody should set up the National Suicide Bombing Belt Association (NSBBA) and turn it into a powerful lobby group - somebody needs to lobby for the owners of suicide bombing belts.

If US citizens should have the right to carry a gun, they should have the right to wear a suicide bombing belt too.

Suicide bombing belts don't kill people, people do!

And just like nuclear weapons, they can only be ever used on the principle of MAD (mutually assured destruction), so are much safer than guns in ensuring the safety of the populace.

I look forward to mature, civilised political discourse on this between open carry and closed carry proponents of suicide bombing belts.

But one thing's for sure - only from the cold, dead hands* of a suicide bombing belt owner, will that suicide bombing belt be taken away.

To freedom!

*Likely lying 50 feet away from the rest of their body.

You have a talent, my friend! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2016, 05:55:47 PM
imagine if only a few of the accusations against Trump happened to be true.

We could have a:

Rapist (as accused by a former wife)
Racist
Fraudulent
Putin plant....

..as President.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 25, 2016, 06:10:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 25, 2016, 05:20:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM

I guess the GOP can still fall back on "they're coming for your guns", but sooner or later some sense has to prevail. THEY have to put their money where their mouth is and govern, after all.

13,000 gun deaths in the USA every year, and the NRA is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the USA.

Somebody should set up the National Suicide Bombing Belt Association (NSBBA) and turn it into a powerful lobby group - somebody needs to lobby for the owners of suicide bombing belts.

If US citizens should have the right to carry a gun, they should have the right to wear a suicide bombing belt too.

Suicide bombing belts don't kill people, people do!

And just like nuclear weapons, they can only be ever used on the principle of MAD (mutually assured destruction), so are much safer than guns in ensuring the safety of the populace.

I look forward to mature, civilised political discourse on this between open carry and closed carry proponents of suicide bombing belts.

But one thing's for sure - only from the cold, dead hands* of a suicide bombing belt owner, will that suicide bombing belt be taken away.

To freedom!

*Likely lying 50 feet away from the rest of their body.
Settlers are often  paranoid. You don't have to drive that far from Dublin to see it
The house of the planters is  known by more than the trees.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.

Obviously you want people who are successful in your cabinet. He helped beat the Democrats so he must have something to offer.

So his tenure promoting the alt-right point of view at Breitbart is just fine with you?

Donna Brazile is still chairperson of the DNC. Are you ok with that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:22:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM
What happens when all these working class whites everyone is venerating discover that Trump and the GOP were/are full of shit, and the jobs lost to automation are not magically coming back, their roofers and landscapers still speak Spanish, gays can still walk the streets with impunity, blacks are not going to resume being quiet about racism, healthcare is still expensive, and the GOP only really cares about tax-cuts for the rich, loosening the reins on Wall Street?

That's quite enough about Obama's policies :D
You wonder why they voted Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.

Obviously you want people who are successful in your cabinet. He helped beat the Democrats so he must have something to offer.

So his tenure promoting the alt-right point of view at Breitbart is just fine with you?

Donna Brazile is still chairperson of the DNC. Are you ok with that?

No, she should be gone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:32:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:22:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM
What happens when all these working class whites everyone is venerating discover that Trump and the GOP were/are full of shit, and the jobs lost to automation are not magically coming back, their roofers and landscapers still speak Spanish, gays can still walk the streets with impunity, blacks are not going to resume being quiet about racism, healthcare is still expensive, and the GOP only really cares about tax-cuts for the rich, loosening the reins on Wall Street?

That's quite enough about Obama's policies :D
You wonder why they voted Trump?

Well, I see nothing wrong with Spanish speakers working in my midst or gay couples out in the park with their kids or black people saying they're not taking this shit anymore. I'm bringing my kids up in NYC, where they go to school with kids of all races and know people who are gay.

Healthcare is a big problem, but its one decades in the making. At the very least, Obama increased, dramatically, the number with access to it, and would done even more but for petty, GOP obstruction. Its up to Trump and Ryan now to put their money where their mouth is when it comes to healthcare. Similarly for all those coal jobs which have been disappearing due to economics, and the factory jobs due to automation and globalization.

One suspects that reality is going to be quite the slap in the face, assuming they're even going to focus on those issues. Schumer should just let them at it.

Which is why it is very foolish, in my opinion, to write off the Democrats, especially when the raw numbers are still in their favour. The electoral college and gerrymandering give the GOP a current advantage, but that won't last forever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 25, 2016, 06:43:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 25, 2016, 05:20:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM

I guess the GOP can still fall back on "they're coming for your guns", but sooner or later some sense has to prevail. THEY have to put their money where their mouth is and govern, after all.

13,000 gun deaths in the USA every year, and the NRA is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the USA.

Somebody should set up the National Suicide Bombing Belt Association (NSBBA) and turn it into a powerful lobby group - somebody needs to lobby for the owners of suicide bombing belts.

If US citizens should have the right to carry a gun, they should have the right to wear a suicide bombing belt too.

Suicide bombing belts don't kill people, people do!

And just like nuclear weapons, they can only be ever used on the principle of MAD (mutually assured destruction), so are much safer than guns in ensuring the safety of the populace.

I look forward to mature, civilised political discourse on this between open carry and closed carry proponents of suicide bombing belts.

But one thing's for sure - only from the cold, dead hands* of a suicide bombing belt owner, will that suicide bombing belt be taken away.

To freedom!

*Likely lying 50 feet away from the rest of their body.

Sid I despise the NRA, that said I have to let you know that in all fairness liberals have taken their blood money too, the republicans are far worse in this case but your attempt at humour here is, well, tacky!

I take no joy in Trump wnning this election but to another's point it is enjoyable to watch liberals such as the likes of you squirm, keep it up mucker, I think I love ya kid. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:50:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.

Obviously you want people who are successful in your cabinet. He helped beat the Democrats so he must have something to offer.

So his tenure promoting the alt-right point of view at Breitbart is just fine with you?

Donna Brazile is still chairperson of the DNC. Are you ok with that?

No, she should be gone.

Nope - she's still there as head of the Democrats.

"We're not going to let the white boys win."

Lovely woman. I bet you're okay with that sentiment though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2016, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: stew on November 25, 2016, 06:43:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 25, 2016, 05:20:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM

I guess the GOP can still fall back on "they're coming for your guns", but sooner or later some sense has to prevail. THEY have to put their money where their mouth is and govern, after all.

13,000 gun deaths in the USA every year, and the NRA is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the USA.

Somebody should set up the National Suicide Bombing Belt Association (NSBBA) and turn it into a powerful lobby group - somebody needs to lobby for the owners of suicide bombing belts.

If US citizens should have the right to carry a gun, they should have the right to wear a suicide bombing belt too.

Suicide bombing belts don't kill people, people do!

And just like nuclear weapons, they can only be ever used on the principle of MAD (mutually assured destruction), so are much safer than guns in ensuring the safety of the populace.

I look forward to mature, civilised political discourse on this between open carry and closed carry proponents of suicide bombing belts.

But one thing's for sure - only from the cold, dead hands* of a suicide bombing belt owner, will that suicide bombing belt be taken away.

To freedom!

*Likely lying 50 feet away from the rest of their body.

Sid I despise the NRA, that said I have to let you know that in all fairness liberals have taken their blood money too, the republicans are far worse in this case but your attempt at humour here is, well, tacky!

I take no joy in Trump wnning this election but to another's point it is enjoyable to watch liberals such as the likes of you squirm, keep it up mucker, I think I love ya kid. )

This is having it both ways Stew.

'I don't like Trump...but...'

Because there is always a 'but'.

Trump offered nothing in terms of policy, because he didn't need to. He played brilliantly to people's hidden prejudices, hates, phobias and most of all to their ignorance.

I think the GOP are going have as much difficulty dealing with him as the Democrats will.

This narcissist won't be following any party line.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:59:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:50:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.

Obviously you want people who are successful in your cabinet. He helped beat the Democrats so he must have something to offer.

So his tenure promoting the alt-right point of view at Breitbart is just fine with you?

Donna Brazile is still chairperson of the DNC. Are you ok with that?

No, she should be gone.

Nope - she's still there as head of the Democrats.

"We're not going to let the white boys win."

Lovely woman. I bet you're okay with that sentiment though.

In the context in which she said it, I'm absolutely ok with it:

"She [Brazile] is in that perilous and burdensome position of being a "first," and she both fights the symbolism and embraces the position. The last reason Gore chose her, she says, was her race and gender. But the reality is that in this world, the only time race and gender don't matter is . . . never.

"A black female in America is the most invisible object in the world," Brazile says. She will not let the "white boys" win. And that's not a description of "gender or race, it's an attitude. A white-boy attitude is 'I must exclude, denigrate and leave behind,'" Brazile says. "They don't see it or think about it. It's a culture." It is the sense of utter entitlement. And that she will not have."

Now, how about Bannon's alt-right opinions? You've been dodging it for long enough.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 25, 2016, 07:01:24 PM
Quote from: stew on November 25, 2016, 06:43:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 25, 2016, 05:20:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 04:54:20 PM

I guess the GOP can still fall back on "they're coming for your guns", but sooner or later some sense has to prevail. THEY have to put their money where their mouth is and govern, after all.

13,000 gun deaths in the USA every year, and the NRA is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the USA.

Somebody should set up the National Suicide Bombing Belt Association (NSBBA) and turn it into a powerful lobby group - somebody needs to lobby for the owners of suicide bombing belts.

If US citizens should have the right to carry a gun, they should have the right to wear a suicide bombing belt too.

Suicide bombing belts don't kill people, people do!

And just like nuclear weapons, they can only be ever used on the principle of MAD (mutually assured destruction), so are much safer than guns in ensuring the safety of the populace.

I look forward to mature, civilised political discourse on this between open carry and closed carry proponents of suicide bombing belts.

But one thing's for sure - only from the cold, dead hands* of a suicide bombing belt owner, will that suicide bombing belt be taken away.

To freedom!

*Likely lying 50 feet away from the rest of their body.

Sid I despise the NRA, that said I have to let you know that in all fairness liberals have taken their blood money too, the republicans are far worse in this case but your attempt at humour here is, well, tacky!

I take no joy in Trump wnning this election but to another's point it is enjoyable to watch liberals such as the likes of you squirm, keep it up mucker, I think I love ya kid. )
I'd be very worried if people like you liked my humour, mate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 09:44:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:59:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:50:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.

Obviously you want people who are successful in your cabinet. He helped beat the Democrats so he must have something to offer.

So his tenure promoting the alt-right point of view at Breitbart is just fine with you?

Donna Brazile is still chairperson of the DNC. Are you ok with that?

No, she should be gone.

Nope - she's still there as head of the Democrats.

"We're not going to let the white boys win."

Lovely woman. I bet you're okay with that sentiment though.

In the context in which she said it, I'm absolutely ok with it:

"She [Brazile] is in that perilous and burdensome position of being a "first," and she both fights the symbolism and embraces the position. The last reason Gore chose her, she says, was her race and gender. But the reality is that in this world, the only time race and gender don't matter is . . . never.

"A black female in America is the most invisible object in the world," Brazile says. She will not let the "white boys" win. And that's not a description of "gender or race, it's an attitude. A white-boy attitude is 'I must exclude, denigrate and leave behind,'" Brazile says. "They don't see it or think about it. It's a culture." It is the sense of utter entitlement. And that she will not have."

Now, how about Bannon's alt-right opinions? You've been dodging it for long enough.

So you're condoning a racist while on the other hand having meltdowns about Bannon? Hypocritical no?
Whatever Bannon has said previously in a prvate non-government capacity is a lot different to the position he is in now. If he acts incorrectly he will be held to account.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 10:04:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 09:44:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:59:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:50:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.

Obviously you want people who are successful in your cabinet. He helped beat the Democrats so he must have something to offer.

So his tenure promoting the alt-right point of view at Breitbart is just fine with you?

Donna Brazile is still chairperson of the DNC. Are you ok with that?

No, she should be gone.

Nope - she's still there as head of the Democrats.

"We're not going to let the white boys win."

Lovely woman. I bet you're okay with that sentiment though.

In the context in which she said it, I'm absolutely ok with it:

"She [Brazile] is in that perilous and burdensome position of being a "first," and she both fights the symbolism and embraces the position. The last reason Gore chose her, she says, was her race and gender. But the reality is that in this world, the only time race and gender don't matter is . . . never.

"A black female in America is the most invisible object in the world," Brazile says. She will not let the "white boys" win. And that's not a description of "gender or race, it's an attitude. A white-boy attitude is 'I must exclude, denigrate and leave behind,'" Brazile says. "They don't see it or think about it. It's a culture." It is the sense of utter entitlement. And that she will not have."

Now, how about Bannon's alt-right opinions? You've been dodging it for long enough.

So you're condoning a racist while on the other hand having meltdowns about Bannon? Hypocritical no?
Whatever Bannon has said previously in a prvate non-government capacity is a lot different to the position he is in now. If he acts incorrectly he will be held to account.

Did you read the WP actual article in which she is quoted? She is talking about OVERCOMING prejudice. How does that make her a racist?

Bannon is on record as saying he made Breitbart a mouthpiece for the alt-right. Whether or not he personally believes in all of their repugnant views, he's mainstreaming them and harnessed them to elect Trump.

Here is Ben Shapiro, a former Breitbart star and no friend of liberalism, on the subject:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/11/ben_shapiro_on_steve_bannon_the_alt_right_and_why_the_left_needs_to_turn.html (https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/11/ben_shapiro_on_steve_bannon_the_alt_right_and_why_the_left_needs_to_turn.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 25, 2016, 10:21:09 PM
All this multi-quoting is reminding me of the wallpaper in the snooker club I used to frequent when I was younger.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 10:40:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 10:04:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 09:44:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:59:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:50:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2016, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Late to the party, been a bit busy. Loving Donald Trumps picks so far. The right men in place to start getting the country back on track after the last 8 years of pandering by Obama. Clinton failing to be elected is another blot on his legacy. Hopefully he will now fade into obscurity but I'm sure he'll be on "Dancing with the Stars" in a few years time.

Delighted that real americans finally woke up to what has been happening in their lands. That said I hope Trump does become a president that rules with a level of fair play for all.

CNN commentators seething at the result is an added bonus. They can't handle the fact that Hillary lost. Priceless.

Yeah, figured you'd like Sessions and Bannon and those types.

You figured right ;)

Well, at least you're openly and proudly embracing it.  ;)

Just to clarify - Conservatives. I didn't read into what you were alluding to.

So you're hesitating on the likes of Sessions and Bannon then?

Where did I say I was hesitating? I clarified my statement.

So men like Bannon are conservatives you're happy to see appointed.

Obviously you want people who are successful in your cabinet. He helped beat the Democrats so he must have something to offer.

So his tenure promoting the alt-right point of view at Breitbart is just fine with you?

Donna Brazile is still chairperson of the DNC. Are you ok with that?

No, she should be gone.

Nope - she's still there as head of the Democrats.

"We're not going to let the white boys win."

Lovely woman. I bet you're okay with that sentiment though.

In the context in which she said it, I'm absolutely ok with it:

"She [Brazile] is in that perilous and burdensome position of being a "first," and she both fights the symbolism and embraces the position. The last reason Gore chose her, she says, was her race and gender. But the reality is that in this world, the only time race and gender don't matter is . . . never.

"A black female in America is the most invisible object in the world," Brazile says. She will not let the "white boys" win. And that's not a description of "gender or race, it's an attitude. A white-boy attitude is 'I must exclude, denigrate and leave behind,'" Brazile says. "They don't see it or think about it. It's a culture." It is the sense of utter entitlement. And that she will not have."

Now, how about Bannon's alt-right opinions? You've been dodging it for long enough.

So you're condoning a racist while on the other hand having meltdowns about Bannon? Hypocritical no?
Whatever Bannon has said previously in a prvate non-government capacity is a lot different to the position he is in now. If he acts incorrectly he will be held to account.

Did you read the WP actual article in which she is quoted? She is talking about OVERCOMING prejudice. How does that make her a racist?

Bannon is on record as saying he made Breitbart a mouthpiece for the alt-right. Whether or not he personally believes in all of their repugnant views, he's mainstreaming them and harnessed them to elect Trump.

Here is Ben Shapiro, a former Breitbart star and no friend of liberalism, on the subject:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/11/ben_shapiro_on_steve_bannon_the_alt_right_and_why_the_left_needs_to_turn.html (https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/11/ben_shapiro_on_steve_bannon_the_alt_right_and_why_the_left_needs_to_turn.html)

Overcoming me hole. She spews it if you ever listen to her. Her and her CNN pals (before she got sacked) brainwashing people and perpetuating the guilt complex.
As for your article - bannon like most people in politics find ways to get votes, even if some of these voters are less than ideal. Don't people like you still vote democrat even though Donna Brazile openly declares her hatred for you? That's a bit of a mindf*ck surely.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 25, 2016, 10:50:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 06:59:23 PM
In the context in which she said it, I'm absolutely ok with it:

"She [Brazile] is in that perilous and burdensome position of being a "first," and she both fights the symbolism and embraces the position. The last reason Gore chose her, she says, was her race and gender. But the reality is that in this world, the only time race and gender don't matter is . . . never.

"A black female in America is the most invisible object in the world," Brazile says. She will not let the "white boys" win. And that's not a description of "gender or race, it's an attitude. A white-boy attitude is 'I must exclude, denigrate and leave behind,'" Brazile says. "They don't see it or think about it. It's a culture." It is the sense of utter entitlement. And that she will not have."

Now, how about Bannon's alt-right opinions? You've been dodging it for long enough.
You're wasting your time trying to explain context to somebody like "foxcommander", who's either too thick to understand, or has deliberately chosen to miss the context of why any reasonable person would have a problem with Bannon and Sessions and with all the vile, pathetic, hatemongering shit Trump has said.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2016, 10:57:58 PM
Show where she spews her hatred for whites?

As usual, you refuse to acknowledge the real racism that black people endure and have endured. We're talking about the first woman, and a black woman at that, to run a presidential campaign, and this back in the 90s, out of the Deep South. Are you seriously telling us that racial and gender prejudice did not have to be overcome in politics, like everywhere else?

Context matters. A black woman breaking into what has been a white, male field for centuries and talking about overcoming prejudice is a hell of a lot different to trying to harness white people bitter at immigrants and minorities for doing nothing except trying to integrate and build lives in the US.

So either show us some real evidence of racism on her part or stand looking like the person you usually do when you never miss a chance to try to (invariably invalidly) accuse black people of being ungrateful, over sensitive racists.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 26, 2016, 05:00:36 AM
I am an avid fan of the cosmos, I love the universe and the magnificence of the place, in our part of the universe I am absolutely disgusted at Trump and his blithe denial that global warming exists, global warming is a huge concern yet the country that produces the most destructive element that hurts the planet, well, they don't give a f**k!

I love that Trump wants to go back to the moon, I hate that he wants to do it by taking environmental money and give it to NASA.

Trump is wrong on this and has to be stopped, it is going to take republicans to raol against his plans as well as every Democrat left standing, the environment is suffering and it is up to the leaders to put plans in place to save said environment!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on November 26, 2016, 05:10:01 AM
I agree, stew, but they won't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 26, 2016, 08:12:47 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2016, 05:00:36 AM
I am an avid fan of the cosmos, I love the universe and the magnificence of the place, in our part of the universe I am absolutely disgusted at Trump and his blithe denial that global warming exists, global warming is a huge concern yet the country that produces the most destructive element that hurts the planet, well, they don't give a f**k!

I love that Trump wants to go back to the moon, I hate that he wants to do it by taking environmental money and give it to NASA.

Trump is wrong on this and has to be stopped, it is going to take republicans to raol against his plans as well as every Democrat left standing, the environment is suffering and it is up to the leaders to put plans in place to save said environment!

Don't blame Trump. He touted this policy all along.

Blame the people that voted for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 26, 2016, 09:37:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2016, 10:57:58 PM
Show where she spews her hatred for whites?

As usual, you refuse to acknowledge the real racism that black people endure and have endured. We're talking about the first woman, and a black woman at that, to run a presidential campaign, and this back in the 90s, out of the Deep South. Are you seriously telling us that racial and gender prejudice did not have to be overcome in politics, like everywhere else?

Context matters. A black woman breaking into what has been a white, male field for centuries and talking about overcoming prejudice is a hell of a lot different to trying to harness white people bitter at immigrants and minorities for doing nothing except trying to integrate and build lives in the US.

So either show us some real evidence of racism on her part or stand looking like the person you usually do when you never miss a chance to try to (invariably invalidly) accuse black people of being ungrateful, over sensitive racists.

http://swelleganza.tumblr.com/post/95099390375/hilton-als-gwtw

"it's the experience of being watched and seeing the harm in people's eyes that is the prelude to becoming a dead n#gger. And according to these pictures I shouldn't be talking to you right now . I'm a little on the  n#gger side , meant to be seen and not heard, my tongue hanged and with it my mind"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 26, 2016, 10:35:55 AM
Maybe it will all work out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8fjVNg9Lv0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 26, 2016, 12:30:04 PM
 From dark enlightenment to post-truth: the alt-right's figures and terms, explained.
   
   
  Ofri Ilany    Nov 25, 2016 1:36 AM
 
                                                Alt-right (the alternative right): A term that defines individuals with extreme right-wing ideologies and ideas that have been disseminated in recent years on the internet, mainly in the United States, and which deviate from the ideology of the traditional conservative right. Until recently, the trend received only marginal media attention, but in recent months its proponents have received increasing exposure. They are for the most part white males who propagate ideas of male supremacy and white supremacy, which are considered taboo in the mainstream media. Alt-right activists often use code words to express racist sentiments: for example, "Skypes" is used when referring to Jews, and "Googles" is the preferred euphemism for black people.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                Most alt-right activists write under assumed names, mainly on forums such as 4chan and websites such as dailystormer.com. However, the ideas they espouse are also found on the breitbart.com website, which has been described by its chief executive, Steve Bannon, as "the platform for the alt-right." During the presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton linked Donald Trump to the movement. Recently, there have been complaints that the concept of alt-right is in itself misleading, and conceals a simple racist-fascist ideology.
                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Alpha male: A popular compliment in alt-right circles for dominant and patriarchal men like Trump; opposite of a beta male, who is effeminate, weak and emasculated. 
                                                                                         
                                                                               
                                                                                                    Bannon, Steve: Trump's intended presidential chief strategist, chief executive of Breitbart (although he went on a leave of absence when he took over management of the GOP candidate's campaign) and sponsor of the alt-right. Some people describe his strategy as Leninist – fostering a revolution led by an avant-garde of highly idealistic professional revolutionaries, who will accelerate far-reaching social processes when power is in their hands (and now it is).

                                                                                                    Beck, Glenn: A conservative, Christian radio broadcaster affiliated with America's Tea Party movement. Beck is opposed to the alt-right, which he describes as European and anti-American, and to Trump, whom he has compared to Adolf Hitler. Also warns against Alexander Dugin on the New Right. In February, he promised that if Trump came to power, he would move to Israel. Considered by members of the alt-right to be "cuckservative" (see below).
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Breitbart.com: An ultranationalist right-wing news website, formerly edited by Steve Bannon, which combines misogyny, opposition to trade agreements, hostility to immigration and to foreigners, and opposition to abortion and gun restrictions. It endorsed Trump's candidacy, and also supports Brexit, Israel (see below), Marine Le Pen, Geert Wilders and the far-right movements of them and other European leaders. Ideologically close to the alt-right, in a more moderate form.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Cuck, cuckservative: A racist-sexist expression of contempt for old-school conservatives who oppose Trump and the ideology of the alt-right. Such conservatives are portrayed as castrated beta males.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Dark Enlightenment: An ideological movement that serves as an intellectual vehicle for many alt-right writers. Milo Yiannopoulos (see below) claims that "there are many things that separate the alternative right from old-school racist skinheads, but one thing stands out above all else: intelligence. Skinheads, by and large, are low-information, low-IQ thugs driven by the thrill of violence and tribal hatred. The alternative right are a much smarter group of people – which perhaps suggests why the Left hates them so much. They're dangerously bright."
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    The pioneers of Dark Enlightenment are nihilist philosophers such as Englishman Nick Land, libertarians and technological utopians. It is a kind of religion of misogynist geeks who toy with anti-humanist and anti-democratic ideas, whose principal argument is that liberty and democracy cannot coexist, and therefore democracy should be sacrificed. They reject what they call "The Cathedral," their term for the contemporary gospel of liberalism and political correctness.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         








      


         Alexander Dugin.Francesca Ebel, AP         
   
   



                                                                       
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Dugin, Alexander: A Russian intellectual with close ties to the Kremlin. Promotes imperialist Eurasianism, which aims to destroy the decadent West by means of an anti-democratic, Asian cultural-political model, centered in Russia. He has been influenced by ideas of the "conservative revolution" and by the philosophy of Oswald Spengler, which was popular in Germany in the first half of the 20th century. Opposes the ideas of progress and liberalism in favor of ancient tradition originating in the East, and considers the idea of a democratic Russia as pseudomorphosis (see below). Although he has advocated a confrontation with the democratic Order of Atlantic, centered in the United States, he is often quoted on alt-right websites and encourages Trump-style American isolationism.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Gamergate: A protest movement of misogynist gamers (that is, video-game players), which erupted in August 2014. It flourished on the forum site 8chan, and on Breitbart. The protest was directed against feminists who criticized male dominance in the gaming world. Was seen as a formative event of the new geek right, exemplifying a mix of geeky machoism and chauvinist violence.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Hipster right: Breitbart's term for the young European identity movement, exemplified by educated and with-it young people who oppose German Chancellor Angela Merkel's immigration policy and protest against the "self-hatred" of multiculturalism. Influenced by ideas of Frenchman Alain De Benouit's New Right.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Human biodiversity: A racist expression commonly used in alt-right forums to describe the  phenomenon of significant genetic differences among the various human "tribes." It assumes that the "white tribe" can and must maintain itself and its lands, and prevent intermingling with other tribes such as black or Jews. This is the basis for hostility toward multiculturalism and immigration, which its purveyors perceive as "white genocide."
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Israel: A country in the Middle East that is described as "Judeo-democratic." Many members of the alt-right support Israel because it is a frontline position in the war against Islam.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Neoreaction, NRx: An ideological movement that more or less overlaps Dark Enlightenment. To be distinguished from the old neoconservativism that flourished in the days of Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, which the alt-right dubs "cuckservative."
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    New Balance: A popular brand of sports shoes that was recently declared by the alt-right as the "official shoe of white people" This happened after the company's spokesman expressed enthusiasm about Trump's election, due to the opposition of the president-elect to the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Pepe the Frog: A cartoon character that has become a popular meme, and in the past year has been identified with white ultranationalism and with Donald Trump. The Anti-Defamation League officially designated it a "hate symbol"; Clinton's campaign also attacked the frog, provoking derision from Trump supporters. Pepe illustrates the clownish nature of the new far right. As Israeli intellectual and Trump supporter Elad Pressman, editor of the website conspil.com, explained, "If the discourse of Hillary's campaign is as strict as the Church regarding purity of language and preaching Christian morality, Trump's campaign is seen as more emotional, dynamic and amorphous, and in effect is lighter, laughs more and is not as heavy."
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Pseudomorphosis: A term coined by German philosopher Oswald Spengler, author of "The Decline of the West," published in 1918. It signifies a cultural disease that causes a young and vital culture to adopt the thinking modes of a foreign and dying one, thereby leading to pretense and hypocrisy. Popular with Dugin and neoreactionary philosophers, who claim that millennials have to free themselves from the liberal culture of the declining Baby Boomer generation.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Post-truth: A characteristic of the political culture of the Trump era, in which facts are of no importance in the shaping of public opinion. Several alt-right spokesmen, including Yiannopoulos, advocate such politics. The term was chosen by the Oxford Dictionaries as the word of the year for 2016.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Putin, Vladimir: President of Russia. Very popular among spokesmen of the extreme right in the West, as "the great godfather of extreme nationalism" in our time. Those who believe in white supremacy claim that the United States must hold off from waging the cold war against Russia that began during the term of President Barack Obama, and to ally itself with the "great white power" headed by Putin.
                                                                                         
               
                                                            skip - Excerpts from Richard Spencer's speech, as published by The Atlantic.
                                                         
 
           
     
               
     
           
          Excerpts from Richard Spencer's speech, as published by The Atlantic.
                        The Atlantic, YouTube
                 
     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                    Spencer, Richard: One of the prominent spokespeople of the alt-right, editor of the alternative-right.blogspot.com website. Promotes identity politics, white supremacy, and anti-bourgeois and anti-liberal "heroism." He claims he is not interested in restoring slavery, but rather in establishing an "ethnic state" for whites only. He claims that women are attracted to alt-right men out of an evolutionary admiration for the genes of alpha males. Does not oppose the activity of Jews, or gays, on the periphery of the movement – as long as they identify with "white European culture." However, he stresses that "Jews aren't white." He and his wife, who uses the pen-name Nina Byzantina, distribute English translations of the works of Alexander Dugin. With Trump's victory, he sees the alt-right as the leaders of public opinion in the new America. At a convention of the movement this week he gave the Nazi salute and shouted "Hail Trump! Hail victory!"
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Strauss, Botho: A German writer and playwright. Began his career as an avant-garde playwright in Berlin, but since the 1990s has expressed conservative opinions considered taboo among the German public. One of the popular figures in the "identity right." A year ago, he claimed that the wave of immigration signifies "the end of the history of the German spirit," and declared that he prefers to see German society die out than for it to become intermingled with foreign peoples. However, he says that if the Germans become a minority they will rediscover their authentic identity.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Swift, Taylor: An American singer who was involuntarily named the poster girl of the alt-right, mainly thanks to her "Aryan appearance" (blond hair and blue eyes). Appears in innumerable, half-joking memes, accompanied by anti-Semitic and Nazi statements.
                                                                                         
               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                    Trolls: A common term for users of social networks, discussion groups and websites who deliberately provoke anger and arouse antagonism. Many members of the alt-right act as trolls – that is, their strategy is not to commit to being serious, and to present every provocative claim as though it was designed to arouse debate and embody freedom of expression.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         








      


         Milo Yiannopoulos.Richard Saker, REX/Shutterstock         
   
   



                                                                       
               
             
                                                                                                    Yiannopoulos, Milo: A British journalist and editor at Breitbart, one of the more eccentric spokesmen of the alt-right, identified with the right-wing gay movement Twinks 4 Trump. Describes himself as a violent homosexual and as a fundamentalist of freedom of expression; expresses anti-feminist and anti-Islamist views. Voices provocative ideas in lectures and speeches with deeply macabre and disturbing undertones. For example, he has hinted at a sexual attraction for Trump, whom he calls Daddy. Although he claims to be of partly Jewish descent, he also says that anti-Semitic caricatures are legitimate if used jokingly by free-spirited young people, which is meant to shock the adults, similar to "long hair and rock 'n' roll" in previous eras.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 26, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
That shit is sickening.

Intelligent my arse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 26, 2016, 12:50:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2016, 05:00:36 AM
I am an avid fan of the cosmos, I love the universe and the magnificence of the place, in our part of the universe I am absolutely disgusted at Trump and his blithe denial that global warming exists, global warming is a huge concern yet the country that produces the most destructive element that hurts the planet, well, they don't give a f**k!

I love that Trump wants to go back to the moon, I hate that he wants to do it by taking environmental money and give it to NASA.

Trump is wrong on this and has to be stopped, it is going to take republicans to raol against his plans as well as every Democrat left standing, the environment is suffering and it is up to the leaders to put plans in place to save said environment!

The Republicans are dying to strip government agencies of any funds to research climate change. It will become a forbidden subject, just as it did under Bush (can't discuss melting Arctic ice when discussing polar bear ecology) and states like Florida under Rick Scott (the irony, given what's happening in Miami!). Can't have any acknowledgement that the data and the risks are real when there's money to be made in their pet industries. This is despite their ever shifting line of the deniers as to the reality. We've moved over the years from "it's not happening" to "humans aren't causing it" to "it was happening but it slowed down for a decade on land" to "it's happening all right and humans probably are causing it but there's not much we can do so let's just live with it".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 26, 2016, 02:01:30 PM
 Climate change denial on the scale of Ebell when Arctic ice is 20 degrees higher than normal is into assassination territory.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 26, 2016, 02:35:24 PM
Twinks for Trump pushed the right-wing line very forcefully but our Twink had nothing to do with it. She does not consider the president elect as Daddy either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 27, 2016, 05:40:16 PM
In related the Ice maiden Clinton has decided to hide behind the skirts of the leader of the green party and has endorsed a recount in wisconsin were she lost to Trump by over 27,000 votes, this rancid bitch does not care that if she is successful in winning these three states through whatever means there will be civil strife o the streets not seen since the civil war.

She conceded on election night, the white house said it was the will of the people and in fairness they are still saying all the right things but one thing strikes me, this place is just like CNN, big news like this recount gets scant play, I do wonder however, do the union lads and Democrats on here agree with Clintons decision?

The democrat party disgusts me more and more every passing year, Trump will be President no matter what happens and I hope to God he puts manners on this nest of vipers when he has the power to do so!

I would say Clinton is looking at more face time answering questions about her emails and the shithouse that is the Clinton foundation, the Donald will bend her over after this cowardly and disgusting situation!













Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 27, 2016, 05:48:46 PM
Quote from: stew on November 27, 2016, 05:40:16 PM
In related the Ice maiden Clinton has decided to hide behind the skirts of the leader of the green party and has endorsed a recount in wisconsin were she lost to Trump by over 27,000 votes, this rancid bitch does not care that if she is successful in winning these three states through whatever means there will be civil strife o the streets not seen since the civil war.

She conceded on election night, the white house said it was the will of the people and in fairness they are still saying all the right things but one thing strikes me, this place is just like CNN, big news like this recount gets scant play, I do wonder however, do the union lads and Democrats on here agree with Clintons decision?

The democrat party disgusts me more and more every passing year, Trump will be President no matter what happens and I hope to God he puts manners on this nest of vipers when he has the power to do so!

I would say Clinton is looking at more face time answering questions about her emails and the shithouse that is the Clinton foundation, the Donald will bend her over after this cowardly and disgusting situation!


There is no single sentence in that rant that isn't vitriolic and baiting.

You're saying Trump won and f**k you all.

We get it.

Do I (personally and not representative of anyone other than myself) think it is a good plan. Yes. Do i thing anything will change? No.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2016, 06:11:12 PM
There is only 10K in it in Michigan , apparently.
They had to confirm the win on the 9th because otherwise it would have been chaos
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 27, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 27, 2016, 05:48:46 PM
Quote from: stew on November 27, 2016, 05:40:16 PM
In related the Ice maiden Clinton has decided to hide behind the skirts of the leader of the green party and has endorsed a recount in wisconsin were she lost to Trump by over 27,000 votes, this rancid bitch does not care that if she is successful in winning these three states through whatever means there will be civil strife o the streets not seen since the civil war.

She conceded on election night, the white house said it was the will of the people and in fairness they are still saying all the right things but one thing strikes me, this place is just like CNN, big news like this recount gets scant play, I do wonder however, do the union lads and Democrats on here agree with Clintons decision?

The democrat party disgusts me more and more every passing year, Trump will be President no matter what happens and I hope to God he puts manners on this nest of vipers when he has the power to do so!

I would say Clinton is looking at more face time answering questions about her emails and the shithouse that is the Clinton foundation, the Donald will bend her over after this cowardly and disgusting situation!


There is no single sentence in that rant that isn't vitriolic and baiting.

You're saying Trump won and f**k you all.

We get it.

Do I (personally and not representative of anyone other than myself) think it is a good plan. Yes. Do i thing anything will change? No.

I agree with you to a certain extent, it is full of vitriol, baiting? not meant to be, I was just speaking aloud, nothing will change, I agree there also however the fact she is desperate enough to try and change things after conceding etc makes me despise the vermin even more!

I am not saying Trump won and f**k you all, I would feel te same if the shoe was on the other foot, it is too late in the day to be pulling this shit but hey, that is the way the dems roll, I lived it when Walker got elected Governor of Wisconsin, I saw their act.

If the republicans are wrong I call it what it is, what sickens me is that so many democrats can justify anything, they bend rukles, break rules but hey, if the law suits us not, ignore the law.

A real litmus test will be the knackers in charge of sanctuary cities, if they break the law and are true to their word they will do hard time, they, to me are as fickle as wully on a hunger strike, they stand for nothing and they will fold like tents, Trump will be relentless in hunting them down and I hope he does!

Sorry Hegan, I loathe with all my heart the party you support, I have no gra for illegal aliens and it is my fervent wish Trump takes this personally and goes after Clinton, she really, really needs to have a long sit behind cold steel!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2016, 06:46:00 PM
Quote from: stew on November 27, 2016, 05:40:16 PM
In related the Ice maiden Clinton has decided to hide behind the skirts of the leader of the green party and has endorsed a recount in wisconsin were she lost to Trump by over 27,000 votes, this rancid bitch does not care that if she is successful in winning these three states through whatever means there will be civil strife o the streets not seen since the civil war.

She conceded on election night, the white house said it was the will of the people and in fairness they are still saying all the right things but one thing strikes me, this place is just like CNN, big news like this recount gets scant play, I do wonder however, do the union lads and Democrats on here agree with Clintons decision?

The democrat party disgusts me more and more every passing year, Trump will be President no matter what happens and I hope to God he puts manners on this nest of vipers when he has the power to do so!

I would say Clinton is looking at more face time answering questions about her emails and the shithouse that is the Clinton foundation, the Donald will bend her over after this cowardly and disgusting situation!

If there is a recount going to take place, independent of whether she gets behind it or not, she'd be an idiot not to have representation.

Do you think Trump will not be represented? Get a fuckin' grip of yourself!

Un-f**king-believable! :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2016, 06:53:00 PM
And another thing - f**k Trump and his whining about this recount. It couldn't happen to a nicer guy!

He's the man who spent weeks hyping up non-existent evidence of voter fraud and, in a national debate, refused to say that he would accept the results of the election.

If HE had won the popular vote by 2 million plus and lost the electoral college, there'd be all kinds of law suits and bitching and obstruction going on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 27, 2016, 06:57:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2016, 06:46:00 PM
Quote from: stew on November 27, 2016, 05:40:16 PM
In related the Ice maiden Clinton has decided to hide behind the skirts of the leader of the green party and has endorsed a recount in wisconsin were she lost to Trump by over 27,000 votes, this rancid bitch does not care that if she is successful in winning these three states through whatever means there will be civil strife o the streets not seen since the civil war.

She conceded on election night, the white house said it was the will of the people and in fairness they are still saying all the right things but one thing strikes me, this place is just like CNN, big news like this recount gets scant play, I do wonder however, do the union lads and Democrats on here agree with Clintons decision?

The democrat party disgusts me more and more every passing year, Trump will be President no matter what happens and I hope to God he puts manners on this nest of vipers when he has the power to do so!

I would say Clinton is looking at more face time answering questions about her emails and the shithouse that is the Clinton foundation, the Donald will bend her over after this cowardly and disgusting situation!

If there is a recount going to take place, independent of whether she gets behind it or not, she'd be an idiot not to have representation.

Do you think Trump will not be represented? Get a fuckin' grip of yourself!

Un-f**king-believable! :o

Quit your liberal bullshit and act like a man ffs!

If she accepts the result of the general election why not come out and say so? Oh wait, she did?

This is not about representation, this is about clinging to hope and hoping for a miracle at the expense of civil unrest.

If I am wrong why does she not come out and say so?

The tr**p has had elections fixed in this calendar year, why would this one be any different?

Did I mention I hate non accountable liberal fuckkwits? I really, really, really do!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2016, 07:23:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 27, 2016, 06:57:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2016, 06:46:00 PM
Quote from: stew on November 27, 2016, 05:40:16 PM
In related the Ice maiden Clinton has decided to hide behind the skirts of the leader of the green party and has endorsed a recount in wisconsin were she lost to Trump by over 27,000 votes, this rancid bitch does not care that if she is successful in winning these three states through whatever means there will be civil strife o the streets not seen since the civil war.

She conceded on election night, the white house said it was the will of the people and in fairness they are still saying all the right things but one thing strikes me, this place is just like CNN, big news like this recount gets scant play, I do wonder however, do the union lads and Democrats on here agree with Clintons decision?

The democrat party disgusts me more and more every passing year, Trump will be President no matter what happens and I hope to God he puts manners on this nest of vipers when he has the power to do so!

I would say Clinton is looking at more face time answering questions about her emails and the shithouse that is the Clinton foundation, the Donald will bend her over after this cowardly and disgusting situation!

If there is a recount going to take place, independent of whether she gets behind it or not, she'd be an idiot not to have representation.

Do you think Trump will not be represented? Get a fuckin' grip of yourself!

Un-f**king-believable! :o

Quit your liberal bullshit and act like a man ffs!

If she accepts the result of the general election why not come out and say so? Oh wait, she did?

This is not about representation, this is about clinging to hope and hoping for a miracle at the expense of civil unrest.

If I am wrong why does she not come out and say so?

The tr**p has had elections fixed in this calendar year, why would this one be any different?

Did I mention I hate non accountable liberal fuckkwits? I really, really, really do!

Bollocks.

The recount is going ahead with or without her. She would be an idiot not to have representatives overseeing it. As would Trump. If you can't see or accept that then you're an idiot.

And if it is all her doing, why the f**k is President-elect Conspiracy Theorist having fits on Twitter blaming Jill Stein and the Greens?

And on the "acting like a man" horseshit - I haven't advocated for a recount nor uttered a word about election irregularities, so spare me that particular line of irrelevant bollocks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2016, 07:41:02 PM
"Clinton has decided to hide behind the skirts of the leader of the green party"

Misogyny is a core Conservative value obviously.

"Quit your liberal bullshit and act like a man ffs!"


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 27, 2016, 09:01:20 PM
Why the f**k not have a recount?? The ability to have a recount is there for this exact reason.

If there is nothing untoward then the Donald and the rest of you gun toting, misogynistic, gay bashing, climate change denying, creationist, "conservative" nutbags have nothing to worry about 😁
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:06:21 PM
Maybe the main stream media should be calling for Hillary to publicly disavow and disown her supporters who are issuing death threats to members of the Electoral College


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/17/elector-threats/94003176/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2016, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:06:21 PM
Maybe the main stream media should be calling for Hillary to publicly disavow and disown her supporters who are issuing death threats to members of the Electoral College


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/17/elector-threats/94003176/

And maybe these people should be getting the police involved?

Are you suggesting she might hesitate on condemning people making death threats, like Trump with the David Duke stuff back in the summer?

But yeah, if it makes "outraged" people such as yourself happy, I guess someone should ask her the question and solicit the condemnation any normal human being would make.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:26:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2016, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:06:21 PM
Maybe the main stream media should be calling for Hillary to publicly disavow and disown her supporters who are issuing death threats to members of the Electoral College


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/17/elector-threats/94003176/

And maybe these people should be getting the police involved?

Are you suggesting she might hesitate on condemning people making death threats, like Trump with the David Duke stuff back in the summer?

Exactly....shocking double standards by the MSM...every fringe group automatically became surrogates for Trump during his the election campaign


Why aren't the Hillary supporters who are issuing death threats surrogates for her campaign

As I said before, if they keep it up they're only digging the hole deeper for themselves and the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 27, 2016, 10:32:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:26:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2016, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:06:21 PM
Maybe the main stream media should be calling for Hillary to publicly disavow and disown her supporters who are issuing death threats to members of the Electoral College


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/17/elector-threats/94003176/

And maybe these people should be getting the police involved?

Are you suggesting she might hesitate on condemning people making death threats, like Trump with the David Duke stuff back in the summer?

Exactly....shocking double standards by the MSM...every fringe group automatically became surrogates for Trump during his the election campaign


Why aren't the Hillary supporters who are issuing death threats surrogates for her campaign

As I said before, if they keep it up they're only digging the hole deeper for themselves and the Democrats
Whitey: I had a dog when I was a child called Blackie. He was a great dog😇
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:13:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:26:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2016, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:06:21 PM
Maybe the main stream media should be calling for Hillary to publicly disavow and disown her supporters who are issuing death threats to members of the Electoral College


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/17/elector-threats/94003176/

And maybe these people should be getting the police involved?

Are you suggesting she might hesitate on condemning people making death threats, like Trump with the David Duke stuff back in the summer?

Exactly....shocking double standards by the MSM...every fringe group automatically became surrogates for Trump during his the election campaign


Why aren't the Hillary supporters who are issuing death threats surrogates for her campaign

As I said before, if they keep it up they're only digging the hole deeper for themselves and the Democrats

Here's what you, Stew and Trump would do in this situation:

He is a Republican, therefore he is lying about the death threats. He made them up and, not only that, HE DELETED THE EMAILS! The *** **** **** ******* of a ****!

Lock the ******* up!!!


Now I'll do what sane people would do.

Any death threat in this situation should be reported to the police and due process followed. If a crime was committed then the appropriate sentence should apply, after a trial of course. I would like to see proof of any connection to Clinton and if there is any, she should condemn the threats, which she should probably do anyway. I have no doubt she will though. After all, she is not Trump.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:17:31 PM
Further down the article:

....Michigan Democratic Party Chairman Brandon Dillon also condemned the death threat and intimidating message sent to Banerian.

"That's absolutely wrong, and anybody who sends a threat like that frankly should be prosecuted," Dillon said Wednesday.....

Ie gets even better....:

......"They disturb me. But I wouldn't say I'm afraid," he told The Detroit News and then cut short the telephone conversation.

When he called back, Banerian said he had just dodged a furious anti-Trump protester who had plunged into a group of Trump supporters on Oakland University's campus.

"He just started running toward me and the group," he said, adding that he aided another Trump supporter whom the unidentified man attacked. "I don't think it was because of me; there were a bunch of other Trump people."

Police offered a more muted version of the incident.

"At approximately 1 p.m. today on the campus of Oakland University, a rally was organized by students," Oakland University Police Chief Mark Gordon wrote in an email.

"Two opposing groups peacefully came together to voice their support and opposition to the recent election results. During the demonstration, an individual reportedly grabbed a sign out of the hands of another individual.

"The incident was resolved and no charges have been filed.".....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2016, 11:21:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:26:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2016, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 10:06:21 PM
Maybe the main stream media should be calling for Hillary to publicly disavow and disown her supporters who are issuing death threats to members of the Electoral College


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/17/elector-threats/94003176/

And maybe these people should be getting the police involved?

Are you suggesting she might hesitate on condemning people making death threats, like Trump with the David Duke stuff back in the summer?

Exactly....shocking double standards by the MSM...every fringe group automatically became surrogates for Trump during his the election campaign


Why aren't the Hillary supporters who are issuing death threats surrogates for her campaign

As I said before, if they keep it up they're only digging the hole deeper for themselves and the Democrats

No, not exactly at all.

All these fringe groups were coming out in support of the Trump campaign because the policies he was campaigning on i.e. appeals to prejudice towards immigrants and muslims, are in line with their own views. He hesitated to disavow Duke and he, on numerous occasions, retweeted tweets from the far right.  It was only right that he was questioned on their support. Not that that has slowed him down when it comes to Bannon and the alt-right, with his disavowal of the alt-right only coming last week, finally, once they'd served their purpose.

Now, unless you're claiming that Hillary was trying to court the "pissed off loser in his parent's basement issuing death threats" constituency, I don't see the equivalence at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:29:29 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38076688 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38076688)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue


This guy sums it up pretty well

http://thedailybanter.com/2016/11/trump-supporter-plane-rant/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:51:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue

He is not very credible now is he?

A) Banerian said he deleted the rest of the emails and messages "because as you can imagine they're clogging up my email."   ;D ;D ;D ;D

B) His version of the 'attack' was contradicted by the police.

You could not make this up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:51:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue

He is not very credible now is he?

A) Banerian said he deleted the rest of the emails and messages "because as you can imagine they're clogging up my email."   ;D ;D ;D ;D

B) His version of the 'attack' was contradicted by the police.

You could not make this up.

Attack the victim.....straight out of the DNC playbook....outrageous
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:51:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue

He is not very credible now is he?

A) Banerian said he deleted the rest of the emails and messages "because as you can imagine they're clogging up my email."   ;D ;D ;D ;D

B) His version of the 'attack' was contradicted by the police.

You could not make this up.

Attack the victim.....straight out of the DNC playbook....outrageous

I haven't read it. I'll have to take your word for it.

BTW, how is stating the facts, straight out of the article you provided, an 'attack' on him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:51:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue

He is not very credible now is he?

A) Banerian said he deleted the rest of the emails and messages "because as you can imagine they're clogging up my email."   ;D ;D ;D ;D

B) His version of the 'attack' was contradicted by the police.

You could not make this up.

Attack the victim.....straight out of the DNC playbook....outrageous

I haven't read it. I'll have to take your word for it.

BTW, how is stating the facts, straight out of the article you provided, an 'attack' on him?


Youre calling him a liar just like Hillary accused all of Bills accusers as liars.....shocking and outrageous bullying and victimization
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:06:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:51:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue

He is not very credible now is he?

A) Banerian said he deleted the rest of the emails and messages "because as you can imagine they're clogging up my email."   ;D ;D ;D ;D

B) His version of the 'attack' was contradicted by the police.

You could not make this up.

Attack the victim.....straight out of the DNC playbook....outrageous

I haven't read it. I'll have to take your word for it.

BTW, how is stating the facts, straight out of the article you provided, an 'attack' on him?


Youre calling him a liar just like Hillary accused all of Bills accusers as liars.....shocking and outrageous bullying and victimization

I never called him a liar. I said he wasn't a very credible witness, and I gave evidence as to why. You ignore this evidence of course because it doesn't suit you. You provided the link and all I had to do was read it to catch you out.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

If you want to see a liar in action, see this:

Donald J. Trump Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 12:08:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue


This guy sums it up pretty well

http://thedailybanter.com/2016/11/trump-supporter-plane-rant/

That guy sums up what?

He's an obnoxious, rude, bully, probably drunk and clearly trying to provoke a reaction.

Thankfully, the normal, sane people on the flight just ignored the cnut, rather than risk getting into an altercation, getting the cops called, and delaying everyone's day. Presumably the person who posted it, bravado aside, would have done the same in the actual situation. A moron like that deserves no one's attention.

Its quite ironic, whitey, that you're posting this nonsense thread when just several days ago you were trying to have a go at others for false outrage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:12:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:06:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:51:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue

He is not very credible now is he?

A) Banerian said he deleted the rest of the emails and messages "because as you can imagine they're clogging up my email."   ;D ;D ;D ;D

B) His version of the 'attack' was contradicted by the police.

You could not make this up.

Attack the victim.....straight out of the DNC playbook....outrageous

I haven't read it. I'll have to take your word for it.

BTW, how is stating the facts, straight out of the article you provided, an 'attack' on him?


Youre calling him a liar just like Hillary accused all of Bills accusers as liars.....shocking and outrageous bullying and victimization

I never called him a liar. I said he wasn't a very credible witness, and I gave evidence as to why. You ignore this evidence of course because it doesn't suit you. You provided the link and all I had to do was read it to catch you out.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

If you want to see a liar in action, see this:

Donald J. Trump Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally

Keep digging....just like the lame stream media....keep your head stuck in the sand.....you must have a great view down there

Its going to get a whole lot worse for them and the Democrats unless they mend their ways.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:16:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:12:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:06:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:51:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue

He is not very credible now is he?

A) Banerian said he deleted the rest of the emails and messages "because as you can imagine they're clogging up my email."   ;D ;D ;D ;D

B) His version of the 'attack' was contradicted by the police.

You could not make this up.

Attack the victim.....straight out of the DNC playbook....outrageous

I haven't read it. I'll have to take your word for it.

BTW, how is stating the facts, straight out of the article you provided, an 'attack' on him?


Youre calling him a liar just like Hillary accused all of Bills accusers as liars.....shocking and outrageous bullying and victimization

I never called him a liar. I said he wasn't a very credible witness, and I gave evidence as to why. You ignore this evidence of course because it doesn't suit you. You provided the link and all I had to do was read it to catch you out.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

If you want to see a liar in action, see this:

Donald J. Trump Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally

Keep digging....just like the lame stream media....keep your head stuck in the sand.....you must have a great view down there

Its going to get a whole lot worse for them and the Democrats unless they mend their ways.

You don't seem to understand. I am not a Democrat. Neither was Hillary, she was as Republican as you could get, which is why the GOP hated her.

But you are right that it is going to get worse for the Democrats, because Trump is going to make it much, much worse for all of you.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-spending-plan-rankles-fiscal-conservatives-1480289613?mod=e2tw (http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-spending-plan-rankles-fiscal-conservatives-1480289613?mod=e2tw)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 28, 2016, 12:16:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:06:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2016, 11:51:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2016, 11:34:54 PM
LOL?...why hasnt CNN come out and publicly demanded Hillary disavow the death threats????

Once she comes out and condemns them, they should then criticize her for not doing do quickly enough.

MSM is just digging the hole deeper.....lomg may it continue

He is not very credible now is he?

A) Banerian said he deleted the rest of the emails and messages "because as you can imagine they're clogging up my email."   ;D ;D ;D ;D

B) His version of the 'attack' was contradicted by the police.

You could not make this up.

Attack the victim.....straight out of the DNC playbook....outrageous

I haven't read it. I'll have to take your word for it.

BTW, how is stating the facts, straight out of the article you provided, an 'attack' on him?


Youre calling him a liar just like Hillary accused all of Bills accusers as liars.....shocking and outrageous bullying and victimization

I never called him a liar. I said he wasn't a very credible witness, and I gave evidence as to why. You ignore this evidence of course because it doesn't suit you. You provided the link and all I had to do was read it to catch you out.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

If you want to see a liar in action, see this:

Donald J. Trump Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally
Looks like a cast iron case for a recount, so!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:19:20 AM
I agree Sid.

Interesting chart here, making a lie of Stew's criticisms of Obama, and also showing how idiotic it was to vote Trump:

(https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-CM528_FISCAL_9U_20161127181206.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:27:49 AM
No one knows how its going to play out....its all conjecture at this point.

Some of the folks on here were celebrating on Nov 9th because the equity markets were getting hammered, then the markets hit all time highs last week
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 28, 2016, 12:31:01 AM
I love the Republicans' tax plans. It's like peeling an onion.

"Reduce the top tax rate to 33%!" It'll free "the wealth creators" to create more jobs!"

That doesn't work. The top 1% hoards more money and inequality increases.

"Reduce the top tax rate to 25%! It'll free "the wealth creators" to create more jobs!"

That doesn't work. The top 1% hoards more money and inequality increases.

"Reduce the top tax rate to 15%! It'll free "the wealth creators" to create more jobs!"

That doesn't work. The top 1% hoards MORE money and inequality increases.

"Reduce the top tax rate to 7%! It'll free "the wealth creators" to create more jobs!"

That doesn't work. The top 1% hoards MORE money and inequality increases.

"Reduce the top tax rate to 0%! It'll free "the wealth creators" to create more jobs!"

That doesn't work. The top 1% hoards MORE money and inequality increases.

"Reduce the top tax rate to...eh...oh f**k..."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 28, 2016, 12:34:29 AM
OrrrmaaauuuuStooooo drunk on a plane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TM7CFpcQM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 12:35:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:12:57 AM

Keep digging....just like the lame stream media....keep your head stuck in the sand.....you must have a great view down there

Its going to get a whole lot worse for them and the Democrats unless they mend their ways.

Mend what ways?

Tell us what the Democrats need to do to stop things getting a whole lot worse?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2016, 12:41:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 12:35:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 12:12:57 AM

Keep digging....just like the lame stream media....keep your head stuck in the sand.....you must have a great view down there

Its going to get a whole lot worse for them and the Democrats unless they mend their ways.

Mend what ways?

Tell us what the Democrats need to do to stop things getting a whole lot worse?

Trump's narcissism is uncontrollable as we can see from his extreme pettiness regarding the recount. He should stay quiet and let it all fall into his lap, but he can't help himself. Its in his nature.

(https://carazara.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/frog-and-scorpion.jpg?w=1000&h=708)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Trump is a fvcking idiot and I (probably) wouldnt vote for him in a month of Sundays, but he won fair and square.

Hillary is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite

The main stream media promoted the "clown" candidates on the Republican ticket (at the behest of the DNC) because seemingly Hillary would have had a really hard time beating either Jeb Bush or Kasich.

They are the reason we are dealing with this mess and to me it looks like they are doubling down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Trump is a fvcking idiot and I (probably) wouldnt vote for him in a month of Sundays, but he won fair and square.

Hillary is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite

The main stream media promoted the "clown" candidates on the Republican ticket (at the behest of the DNC) because seemingly Hillary would have had a really hard time beating either Jeb Bush or Kasich.

They are the reason we are dealing with this mess and to me it looks like they are doubling down

Well given that you apparently understand, why don't you lay it out?

You're always on about it, but very unforthcoming with specifics.

And Stein (the person YOU voted for) is the one organizing the recount. NOT the Democrats.

And, in case you haven't been paying attention, Trump is one of the biggest liars and hypocrites ever to run for the office, and by his business practices, a very capable crook too.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 28, 2016, 01:12:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Sound like you're advocating for them to rig the primary in 2020...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:15:56 AM
Also whitey, the GOP base overwhelmingly rejected Jeb and Kasich,.

So you're forever condemning the media and the Dems, on the one hand, for "talking down" to the GOP/Trump base. On the other, you're saying that Trump is a creation of the same media and these people were too dumb to see otherwise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:25:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Trump is a fvcking idiot and I (probably) wouldnt vote for him in a month of Sundays, but he won fair and square.

Hillary is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite

The main stream media promoted the "clown" candidates on the Republican ticket (at the behest of the DNC) because seemingly Hillary would have had a really hard time beating either Jeb Bush or Kasich.

They are the reason we are dealing with this mess and to me it looks like they are doubling down

Well given that you apparently understand, why don't you lay it out?

You're always on about it, but very unforthcoming with specifics.

And Stein (the person YOU voted for) is the one organizing the recount. NOT the Democrats.

And, in case you haven't been paying attention, Trump is one of the biggest liars and hypocrites ever to run for the office, and by his business practices, a very capable crook too.

It was a "protest" vote for Stein...the other 3 candidates had disqualified themselves in my view, so it was either leave it blank or fill in a name. I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesnt really count

The main reason I didnt "protest" vote for Trump is that in the event he lost the electoral college and won the popular vote, (which was being floated as a real possibility) I didnt want To give him any legitimacy to contest the result.

I dont and never have disputed one word you said about Trump. The problem is everything you said about him can be equally applied to Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:38:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:15:56 AM
Also whitey, the GOP base overwhelmingly rejected Jeb and Kasich,.

So you're forever condemning the media and the Dems, on the one hand, for "talking down" to the GOP/Trump base. On the other, you're saying that Trump is a creation of the same media and these people were too dumb to see otherwise.

Yes they did.....but its very easy to be overwhelmingly rejected when one of the "pied piper" candidates is given anywhere between $2 and $3.5B in free airtime.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/upshot/measuring-donald-trumps-mammoth-advantage-in-free-media.html?_r=0

I never recall saying the media talked down to them....I said that the Democratic Party talked down to them by pushing an uber liberal progressive agenda and that if anyone stepped out of line they were branded a rascist, islamophobe, misogynist.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:40:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 28, 2016, 01:12:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Sound like you're advocating for them to rig the primary in 2020...

Im advocating for them to focus on what is important to their constituents....not what is important to the elite of the Democratic Party
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:58:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:25:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Trump is a fvcking idiot and I (probably) wouldnt vote for him in a month of Sundays, but he won fair and square.

Hillary is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite

The main stream media promoted the "clown" candidates on the Republican ticket (at the behest of the DNC) because seemingly Hillary would have had a really hard time beating either Jeb Bush or Kasich.

They are the reason we are dealing with this mess and to me it looks like they are doubling down

Well given that you apparently understand, why don't you lay it out?

You're always on about it, but very unforthcoming with specifics.

And Stein (the person YOU voted for) is the one organizing the recount. NOT the Democrats.

And, in case you haven't been paying attention, Trump is one of the biggest liars and hypocrites ever to run for the office, and by his business practices, a very capable crook too.

It was a "protest" vote for Stein...the other 3 candidates had disqualified themselves in my view, so it was either leave it blank or fill in a name. I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesnt really count

The main reason I didnt "protest" vote for Trump is that in the event he lost the electoral college and won the popular vote, (which was being floated as a real possibility) I didnt want To give him any legitimacy to contest the result.

I dont and never have disputed one word you said about Trump. The problem is everything you said about him can be equally applied to Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton

And I've never disputed that. I've said all along that Hillary was a horrible candidate, and in the aftermath, that I'd no personal sympathy for her and that her loss was self-inflicted.

But the issue I'm interested in is your position that the Democrats are digging themselves into a whole from which they will not climb out of for years.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 02:19:20 AM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/21/democrats-answer-is-always-the-same-move-more-left.html

Whether you agree with it or not....I would agree with a lot of the points in this article
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 02:24:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:38:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:15:56 AM
Also whitey, the GOP base overwhelmingly rejected Jeb and Kasich,.

So you're forever condemning the media and the Dems, on the one hand, for "talking down" to the GOP/Trump base. On the other, you're saying that Trump is a creation of the same media and these people were too dumb to see otherwise.

Yes they did.....but its very easy to be overwhelmingly rejected when one of the "pied piper" candidates is given anywhere between $2 and $3.5B in free airtime.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/upshot/measuring-donald-trumps-mammoth-advantage-in-free-media.html?_r=0

I never recall saying the media talked down to them....I said that the Democratic Party talked down to them by pushing an uber liberal progressive agenda and that if anyone stepped out of line they were branded a rascist, islamophobe, misogynist.

The Republicans talk down plenty too. They lie and distort and misrepresent. They falsely accuse, exagerrate and demonize. They fretted after 2012 that their actions in these areas were unsustainable and that they had become the "stupid party". That they doubled down on that stuff this time around and won (due to their electoral college and the weighting of rural state votes, as well as Hillary's issues) doesn't change what they then recognized to be true.

I was disgusted by CNN and other network's pursuit of ratings with Trump, but if that hadn't covered him, we'd be hearing all about how this demogogue, drawing these massive crowds, was being ignored and marginalized and repressed by the media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 02:33:53 AM
Maybe they do, but they dont alienate their base in the process.

Democrats have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college.....it just shows what an absolute disaster Hillary was that they couldnt pull out a win

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/02/republicans-have-a-massive-electoral-map-problem-that-has-nothing-to-do-with-donald-trump/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 02:38:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 02:19:20 AM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/21/democrats-answer-is-always-the-same-move-more-left.html

Whether you agree with it or not....I would agree with a lot of the points in this article

I do agree with a lot of what he says. I'm not of the Bernie wing myself.

I would ask you, however, what the GOP offers the working class. Sure, sections of it are seduced by the scare mongering when it comes to the second amendment, as well as immigration and religious issues.

But how is the party which hate unions, which wants to gut the social safety net and is in full favor of free trade and corporatism, as well as leaving everyone to swim on their own when it comes to healthcare, going to help the average working class man?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 28, 2016, 03:46:06 AM
Quote from: stew on November 27, 2016, 06:37:03 PM

Sorry Hegan, I loathe with all my heart the party you support, I have no gra for illegal aliens and it is my fervent wish Trump takes this personally and goes after Clinton, she really, really needs to have a long sit behind cold steel!

Stew,
not a democrat, as I do live here, I quite simply i was hopeful that the best viable candidate for the job would win. The guy who looks like he won the electoral college is so far out of his depth, and unfit for the role as to be scary. The judgement and discipline required to run any country well, let alone the USA, is so far beyond the capability of that mentally ill dimwit that he is already spectacularly publicly demeaning the office, and by extension, the country.

By no means was Clinton an ideal candidate, nor would she have implemented change in any meaningful way for the country, but sometimes the best thing for a badly injured patient is stability. Treatment can begin when the patient/ country is ready. You think this country is ready for change right now?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: rrhf on November 28, 2016, 05:43:05 AM
Rem trumps threat to Hilary over Gun law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2016, 06:48:59 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 28, 2016, 03:46:06 AM
Quote from: stew on November 27, 2016, 06:37:03 PM

Sorry Hegan, I loathe with all my heart the party you support, I have no gra for illegal aliens and it is my fervent wish Trump takes this personally and goes after Clinton, she really, really needs to have a long sit behind cold steel!

Stew,
not a democrat, as I do live here, I quite simply i was hopeful that the best viable candidate for the job would win. The guy who looks like he won the electoral college is so far out of his depth, and unfit for the role as to be scary. The judgement and discipline required to run any country well, let alone the USA, is so far beyond the capability of that mentally ill dimwit that he is already spectacularly publicly demeaning the office, and by extension, the country.

By no means was Clinton an ideal candidate, nor would she have implemented change in any meaningful way for the country, but sometimes the best thing for a badly injured patient is stability. Treatment can begin when the patient/ country is ready. You think this country is ready for change right now?

Obviously it is, the people had an opportunity to go with the establishment/corrupt liberal and went with the maverick!

The office was demeaned the second Bill was caught shoving that stogie up yer womans hooha! The office has not been what it was since then and has ben defiled many times by Nixon and Kennedy to name but two.

Were is the proof Trump is mentally ill? A bit presumptuous are we not?

If ever a country needed change it is the USA, they need to stop the influx of illegal aliens, for me anyone in the country the day and hour he is sworn in should be allowed to apply for a green card, as long as they are decent citizens prepared to work and pay taxes they should get to stay, not one other soul should get in unless they have a right to be there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 09:56:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:25:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Trump is a fvcking idiot and I (probably) wouldnt vote for him in a month of Sundays, but he won fair and square.

Hillary is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite

The main stream media promoted the "clown" candidates on the Republican ticket (at the behest of the DNC) because seemingly Hillary would have had a really hard time beating either Jeb Bush or Kasich.

They are the reason we are dealing with this mess and to me it looks like they are doubling down

Well given that you apparently understand, why don't you lay it out?

You're always on about it, but very unforthcoming with specifics.

And Stein (the person YOU voted for) is the one organizing the recount. NOT the Democrats.

And, in case you haven't been paying attention, Trump is one of the biggest liars and hypocrites ever to run for the office, and by his business practices, a very capable crook too.

It was a "protest" vote for Stein...the other 3 candidates had disqualified themselves in my view, so it was either leave it blank or fill in a name. I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesnt really count

The main reason I didnt "protest" vote for Trump is that in the event he lost the electoral college and won the popular vote, (which was being floated as a real possibility) I didnt want To give him any legitimacy to contest the result.

I dont and never have disputed one word you said about Trump. The problem is everything you said about him can be equally applied to Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton

So Hillary can legitimately contest the result then?! Good!!

To be fair to Hillary she's done Trump on this recount thing. She's not contesting the legitimacy of the result and hasn't made a statement to that effect but as an interested party she's sending a representative.

Trump decides that instead of saying nothing and let things run their course he will double down and say Virginia/California and NH were subject to voter fraud thus giving more legitimacy to a recount! He might be a good campaigner but I think he has a lot to learn as a political operative!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2016, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 09:56:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:25:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Trump is a fvcking idiot and I (probably) wouldnt vote for him in a month of Sundays, but he won fair and square.

Hillary is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite

The main stream media promoted the "clown" candidates on the Republican ticket (at the behest of the DNC) because seemingly Hillary would have had a really hard time beating either Jeb Bush or Kasich.

They are the reason we are dealing with this mess and to me it looks like they are doubling down

Well given that you apparently understand, why don't you lay it out?

You're always on about it, but very unforthcoming with specifics.

And Stein (the person YOU voted for) is the one organizing the recount. NOT the Democrats.

And, in case you haven't been paying attention, Trump is one of the biggest liars and hypocrites ever to run for the office, and by his business practices, a very capable crook too.

It was a "protest" vote for Stein...the other 3 candidates had disqualified themselves in my view, so it was either leave it blank or fill in a name. I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesnt really count

The main reason I didnt "protest" vote for Trump is that in the event he lost the electoral college and won the popular vote, (which was being floated as a real possibility) I didnt want To give him any legitimacy to contest the result.

I dont and never have disputed one word you said about Trump. The problem is everything you said about him can be equally applied to Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton

So Hillary can legitimately contest the result then?! Good!!

To be fair to Hillary she's done Trump on this recount thing. She's not contesting the legitimacy of the result and hasn't made a statement to that effect but as an interested party she's sending a representative.

Trump decides that instead of saying nothing and let things run their course he will double down and say Virginia/California and NH were subject to voter fraud thus giving more legitimacy to a recount! He might be a good campaigner but I think he has a lot to learn as a political operative!!

She will never be President, she accepted defeat and prior to the election she went on record as saying a candidate needs to accept the will of the people, Hypocrite!

She will get a bullet if she gets this result turned over, so will many ordinary people, I hate to think what would happen if the kn**ker gets this result changed!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2016, 01:30:54 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 09:56:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:25:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Trump is a fvcking idiot and I (probably) wouldnt vote for him in a month of Sundays, but he won fair and square.

Hillary is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite

The main stream media promoted the "clown" candidates on the Republican ticket (at the behest of the DNC) because seemingly Hillary would have had a really hard time beating either Jeb Bush or Kasich.

They are the reason we are dealing with this mess and to me it looks like they are doubling down

Well given that you apparently understand, why don't you lay it out?

You're always on about it, but very unforthcoming with specifics.

And Stein (the person YOU voted for) is the one organizing the recount. NOT the Democrats.

And, in case you haven't been paying attention, Trump is one of the biggest liars and hypocrites ever to run for the office, and by his business practices, a very capable crook too.

It was a "protest" vote for Stein...the other 3 candidates had disqualified themselves in my view, so it was either leave it blank or fill in a name. I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesnt really count

The main reason I didnt "protest" vote for Trump is that in the event he lost the electoral college and won the popular vote, (which was being floated as a real possibility) I didnt want To give him any legitimacy to contest the result.

I dont and never have disputed one word you said about Trump. The problem is everything you said about him can be equally applied to Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton

So Hillary can legitimately contest the result then?! Good!!

To be fair to Hillary she's done Trump on this recount thing. She's not contesting the legitimacy of the result and hasn't made a statement to that effect but as an interested party she's sending a representative.

Trump decides that instead of saying nothing and let things run their course he will double down and say Virginia/California and NH were subject to voter fraud thus giving more legitimacy to a recount! He might be a good campaigner but I think he has a lot to learn as a political operative!!

She will never be President, she accepted defeat and prior to the election she went on record as saying a candidate needs to accept the will of the people, Hypocrite!

She will get a bullet if she gets this result turned over, so will many ordinary people, I hate to think what would happen if the kn**ker gets this result changed!

Whitey will be outraged at that sort of talk.

Then again.......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 02:18:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 09:56:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:25:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Trump is a fvcking idiot and I (probably) wouldnt vote for him in a month of Sundays, but he won fair and square.

Hillary is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite

The main stream media promoted the "clown" candidates on the Republican ticket (at the behest of the DNC) because seemingly Hillary would have had a really hard time beating either Jeb Bush or Kasich.

They are the reason we are dealing with this mess and to me it looks like they are doubling down

Well given that you apparently understand, why don't you lay it out?

You're always on about it, but very unforthcoming with specifics.

And Stein (the person YOU voted for) is the one organizing the recount. NOT the Democrats.

And, in case you haven't been paying attention, Trump is one of the biggest liars and hypocrites ever to run for the office, and by his business practices, a very capable crook too.

It was a "protest" vote for Stein...the other 3 candidates had disqualified themselves in my view, so it was either leave it blank or fill in a name. I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesnt really count

The main reason I didnt "protest" vote for Trump is that in the event he lost the electoral college and won the popular vote, (which was being floated as a real possibility) I didnt want To give him any legitimacy to contest the result.

I dont and never have disputed one word you said about Trump. The problem is everything you said about him can be equally applied to Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton

So Hillary can legitimately contest the result then?! Good!!

To be fair to Hillary she's done Trump on this recount thing. She's not contesting the legitimacy of the result and hasn't made a statement to that effect but as an interested party she's sending a representative.

Trump decides that instead of saying nothing and let things run their course he will double down and say Virginia/California and NH were subject to voter fraud thus giving more legitimacy to a recount! He might be a good campaigner but I think he has a lot to learn as a political operative!!

A protest vote for him would have legitimized his candidacy not an attempt by him to overthrow an election result had he lost
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 02:25:40 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 09:56:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:25:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 01:06:38 AM
The Democrats are losing their $hit over the result, still unable to understand why they lost.

Instead of dusting themselves off and addressing the reasons they lost, they are doubling down on the rhetoric (which is quite ironic) and doing exactly what they predictd Trump would do if he lost.

Trump is a fvcking idiot and I (probably) wouldnt vote for him in a month of Sundays, but he won fair and square.

Hillary is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite

The main stream media promoted the "clown" candidates on the Republican ticket (at the behest of the DNC) because seemingly Hillary would have had a really hard time beating either Jeb Bush or Kasich.

They are the reason we are dealing with this mess and to me it looks like they are doubling down

Well given that you apparently understand, why don't you lay it out?

You're always on about it, but very unforthcoming with specifics.

And Stein (the person YOU voted for) is the one organizing the recount. NOT the Democrats.

And, in case you haven't been paying attention, Trump is one of the biggest liars and hypocrites ever to run for the office, and by his business practices, a very capable crook too.

It was a "protest" vote for Stein...the other 3 candidates had disqualified themselves in my view, so it was either leave it blank or fill in a name. I dont live in a swing state so my vote doesnt really count

The main reason I didnt "protest" vote for Trump is that in the event he lost the electoral college and won the popular vote, (which was being floated as a real possibility) I didnt want To give him any legitimacy to contest the result.

I dont and never have disputed one word you said about Trump. The problem is everything you said about him can be equally applied to Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton

So Hillary can legitimately contest the result then?! Good!!

To be fair to Hillary she's done Trump on this recount thing. She's not contesting the legitimacy of the result and hasn't made a statement to that effect but as an interested party she's sending a representative.

Trump decides that instead of saying nothing and let things run their course he will double down and say Virginia/California and NH were subject to voter fraud thus giving more legitimacy to a recount! He might be a good campaigner but I think he has a lot to learn as a political operative!!

She will never be President, she accepted defeat and prior to the election she went on record as saying a candidate needs to accept the will of the people, Hypocrite!

She will get a bullet if she gets this result turned over, so will many ordinary people, I hate to think what would happen if the kn**ker gets this result changed!

Has anyone said she is contesting the result? Stein has asked for the recount as an audit to make sure nothing untoward went on . . . if something did happen that was incorrect is it not better for everyone that it's found out?

Nobody really thinks that all 3 states will swing in her favour not even her I'm guessing but if Stein's driving the train why not hop on the back to see what happens? There is nothing to be lost from these recounts!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 28, 2016, 02:35:30 PM
Hard to argue against an audit/recount if the president-elect asserts, without any evidence, that were millions of illegal votes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!

And 31 governorships (versus 18 Dem & 1 Ind).

Her lead in the popular vote is mainly down to the state of CA where she beat Trump by 3.4 M votes. This stat alone explains the rationale behind the electoral college


http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!

And 31 governorships (versus 18 Dem & 1 Ind).

Her lead in the popular vote is mainly down to the state of CA where she beat Trump by 3.4 M votes. This stat alone explains the rationale behind the electoral college


http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california

So more Americans voted for Hillary then?!!!

Just making sure that's established . . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!

And 31 governorships (versus 18 Dem & 1 Ind).

Her lead in the popular vote is mainly down to the state of CA where she beat Trump by 3.4 M votes. This stat alone explains the rationale behind the electoral college


http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california

So more Americans voted for Hillary then?!!!

Just making sure that's established . . .

More voted for Democratic senators too.

But the system is set up to ensure rural states carry a higher weighting and aren't marginalized by the more populous states.

Don't know what the House numbers are this time, but in 2012, Democrats lost the House despite receiving 1 million more votes. In that case, gerrymandering is the issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 04:11:33 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!

And 31 governorships (versus 18 Dem & 1 Ind).

Her lead in the popular vote is mainly down to the state of CA where she beat Trump by 3.4 M votes. This stat alone explains the rationale behind the electoral college


http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california

So more Americans voted for Hillary then?!!!

Just making sure that's established . . .

Correct....but the winner of the election is determined by the winner of the electoral college vote.

$2 and a victory in the popular vote will get you a cup of coffee at Dunkin Donuts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2016, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!

And 31 governorships (versus 18 Dem & 1 Ind).

Her lead in the popular vote is mainly down to the state of CA where she beat Trump by 3.4 M votes. This stat alone explains the rationale behind the electoral college


http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california

So more Americans voted for Hillary then?!!!

Just making sure that's established . . .

It was never in doubt kid.

Not a hill of beans does it make, she lost!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 28, 2016, 04:17:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!

And 31 governorships (versus 18 Dem & 1 Ind).

Her lead in the popular vote is mainly down to the state of CA where she beat Trump by 3.4 M votes. This stat alone explains the rationale behind the electoral college


http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california

So more Americans voted for Hillary then?!!!

Just making sure that's established . . .

More voted for Democratic senators too.

But the system is set up to ensure rural states carry a higher weighting and aren't marginalized by the more populous states.

Don't know what the House numbers are this time, but in 2012, Democrats lost the House despite receiving 1 million more votes. In that case, gerrymandering is the issue.

I think the popular vote 'v' college vote is BS. It wasn't the objective of the game. It's like saying Mayo won the "popular vote" All Ireland final as they scored 15 times against Dublin's 11. But unfortunately, 2 of Dublin's scores were goals, and they won by the electoral "college vote" by a point. Doesn't matter how many more times Mayo scored, they still lost by a point according to the rules of the game.

From a us point of view, if the election was won via popular vote, Trump would have campaigned more in NY and California, and Clinton would probably campaigned more in Texas etc.
We don't know who would have won, but we know that the vote totals would be completely different.

So the fact that Hillary won the popular vote means absolutely nothing to me.

I also think the electoral college systems works, otherwise, NY and California would dominate the debate too much which would destabilize the country
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2016, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!

And 31 governorships (versus 18 Dem & 1 Ind).

Her lead in the popular vote is mainly down to the state of CA where she beat Trump by 3.4 M votes. This stat alone explains the rationale behind the electoral college


http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california

So more Americans voted for Hillary then?!!!

Just making sure that's established . . .

More voted for Democratic senators too.

But the system is set up to ensure rural states carry a higher weighting and aren't marginalized by the more populous states.

Don't know what the House numbers are this time, but in 2012, Democrats lost the House despite receiving 1 million more votes. In that case, gerrymandering is the issue.

Great story......if it was actually true

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-09-08/why-democrats-can-t-blame-gerrymandering

"Gerrymandering, by conventional measures, has cost Democrats only a handful of seats, not close to enough for them to have taken a House majority in 2012, when Democratic candidates received more total votes than Republicans. Instead, what's hurting Democrats is "clumping" -- Democrats are increasingly rolling up huge margins in small geographic areas."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2016, 04:50:20 PM
So far only Stein and Trump are questioning the authentic of the results.

Of course it all is Hillary's fault.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 28, 2016, 07:12:04 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/27/us/politics/steve-bannon-white-house.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

Ms. Jones, the film colleague, said that in their years working together, Mr. Bannon occasionally talked about the genetic superiority of some people and once mused about the desirability of limiting the vote to property owners.

"I said, 'That would exclude a lot of African-Americans,'" Ms. Jones recalled. "He said, 'Maybe that's not such a bad thing.'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2016, 07:14:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 28, 2016, 04:50:20 PM
So far only Stein and Trump are questioning the authentic of the results.

Of course it all is Hillary's fault.

In possibility she is pulling the strings?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 28, 2016, 07:12:04 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/27/us/politics/steve-bannon-white-house.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

Ms. Jones, the film colleague, said that in their years working together, Mr. Bannon occasionally talked about the genetic superiority of some people and once mused about the desirability of limiting the vote to property owners.

"I said, 'That would exclude a lot of African-Americans,'" Ms. Jones recalled. "He said, 'Maybe that's not such a bad thing.'
The whites are going to lose their majority
Who the f**k would want to be in a majority with the evangelicals anyway? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 07:45:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!

And 31 governorships (versus 18 Dem & 1 Ind).

Her lead in the popular vote is mainly down to the state of CA where she beat Trump by 3.4 M votes. This stat alone explains the rationale behind the electoral college


http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california

So more Americans voted for Hillary then?!!!

Just making sure that's established . . .

More voted for Democratic senators too.

But the system is set up to ensure rural states carry a higher weighting and aren't marginalized by the more populous states.

Don't know what the House numbers are this time, but in 2012, Democrats lost the House despite receiving 1 million more votes. In that case, gerrymandering is the issue.

Great story......if it was actually true

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-09-08/why-democrats-can-t-blame-gerrymandering

"Gerrymandering, by conventional measures, has cost Democrats only a handful of seats, not close to enough for them to have taken a House majority in 2012, when Democratic candidates received more total votes than Republicans. Instead, what's hurting Democrats is "clumping" -- Democrats are increasingly rolling up huge margins in small geographic areas."

So, as discussed in one of the two articles your linked article discusses, its irrelevant that, in the example of Pennsylvania, that the Dems and Obama, having won in 2012 by a larger margin than in 2008, only won 5 of PA's 18 House seats, compared to 12 of 19 in 2008? The redistricting in 2011 had no effect? Does PA alone account for the "handful of seats"?
The congressional layout of a city like Austin, carved up like a pie so that parts of liberal urban areas are just about bested by suburban conservative areas, with another snaking across Texas to a liberal section of San Antonio to squeeze as many Dems as possible into one district, does not matter? Its reckoned that in Texas, the 2012 redistricting squeezed two extra seats out of the state for the GOP. How many times have those "little" margins been repeated across the country?

Sure, some of the margin is down to how the US population is segregating themselves by political outlook, with liberals more dominant in cities, but its ridiculous to overlook the advantage the GOP gave themselves with all those state wins in 2010 leading to their control of redistricting. If it didn't matter, why do we get those ridiculous, meandering, snake-like districts which try to squeeze blocks of voters, distant from one another, into single districts?

But, assuming you are right and gerrymandering is irrelevant, do you see any problem with the GOP dominating government control and representation despite frequently receiving a significantly lower proportion of the vote? Would you be happy if the shoe was on the other foot?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2016, 07:49:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 07:45:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2016, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Trump barely won. He has a fairly weak mandate.

He has, after all the only thing he has is the Presidency, the senate, congress and the Supreme court!

And 31 governorships (versus 18 Dem & 1 Ind).

Her lead in the popular vote is mainly down to the state of CA where she beat Trump by 3.4 M votes. This stat alone explains the rationale behind the electoral college


http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california

So more Americans voted for Hillary then?!!!

Just making sure that's established . . .

More voted for Democratic senators too.

But the system is set up to ensure rural states carry a higher weighting and aren't marginalized by the more populous states.

Don't know what the House numbers are this time, but in 2012, Democrats lost the House despite receiving 1 million more votes. In that case, gerrymandering is the issue.

Great story......if it was actually true

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-09-08/why-democrats-can-t-blame-gerrymandering

"Gerrymandering, by conventional measures, has cost Democrats only a handful of seats, not close to enough for them to have taken a House majority in 2012, when Democratic candidates received more total votes than Republicans. Instead, what's hurting Democrats is "clumping" -- Democrats are increasingly rolling up huge margins in small geographic areas."

So, as discussed in one of the two articles your linked article discusses, its irrelevant that, in the example of Pennsylvania, that the Dems and Obama, having won in 2012 by a larger margin than in 2008, only won 5 of PA's 18 House seats, compared to 12 of 19 in 2008? The redistricting in 2011 had no effect? Does PA alone account for the "handful of seats"?
The congressional layout of a city like Austin, carved up like a pie so that parts of liberal urban areas are just about bested by suburban conservative areas, with another snaking across Texas to a liberal section of San Antonio to squeeze as many Dems as possible into one district, does not matter? Its reckoned that in Texas, the 2012 redistricting squeezed two extra seats out of the state for the GOP. How many times have those "little" margins been repeated across the country?

Sure, some of the margin is down to how the US population is segregating themselves by political outlook, with liberals more dominant in cities, but its ridiculous to overlook the advantage the GOP gave themselves with all those state wins in 2010 leading to their control of redistricting. If it didn't matter, why do we get those ridiculous, meandering, snake-like districts which try to squeeze blocks of voters, distant from one another, into single districts?

But, assuming you are right and gerrymandering is irrelevant, do you see any problem with the GOP dominating government control and representation despite frequently receiving a significantly lower proportion of the vote? Would you be happy if the shoe was on the other foot?

For me I would rather Clinton won in a clean election than Trump in a dirty one, problem is nowadays no one seems capable of accepting a defeat!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2016, 08:11:28 PM
I more or less agree with that stew. Stein's recount is not going to reveal anything untoward, but it's a logical endpoint to all the rhetoric about voter fraud and voting machines and real concerns about hacking. Honestly, it's probably just the beginning and something we should get used to, especially in a land as paranoid and into conspiracies as the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 28, 2016, 08:37:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 07:22:50 PM
The whites are going to lose their majority

This won't be a bad thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 08:39:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2016, 08:11:28 PM
I more or less agree with that stew. Stein's recount is not going to reveal anything untoward, but it's a logical endpoint to all the rhetoric about voter fraud and voting machines and real concerns about hacking. Honestly, it's probably just the beginning and something we should get used to, especially in a land as paranoid and into conspiracies as the US.

the US is a complete mess and totally polarised
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2016, 10:28:32 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/28/trump-furious-over-kellyanne-conway-comments-on-sunday-shows-about-romney-sources.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on November 28, 2016, 10:41:16 PM
I don't know if anyone on here is one of the 3.5 million who have watched this documentary - if so it would be good to hear any comments on:

From JFK to 911 - Everything is a Rich Man's Trick

3.5 hrs long but worth it imo. Good viewing for the sceptics, definitely food for thought. Well put together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Qt6a-vaNM&t=551s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 29, 2016, 10:20:20 AM
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/some-u-s-soldiers-share-extremely-blunt-thoughts-on-co-1789228136
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 29, 2016, 10:33:34 AM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/27/trump-realism-vs-moral-politics-choice-we-face/

Following Trump's first on-the-record meeting with journalists after the election, The New York Times editorial board was most struck by "how thinly thought through many of the president-elect's stances actually are." Times columnist Thomas Friedman suggested that this lack of expertise creates an opportunity for good people with knowledge to influence Trump: "They need to dive in now and try to pull him toward the center." Fellow columnist Frank Bruni went so far as to suggest a radical sort of cooperation based on Trump's apparently bottomless need for adoration: "Is our best hope for the best Trump to be so fantastically adulatory when he's reasonable that he's motivated to stay on that course, lest the adulation wane?"

Trump is not only vain and incompetent but also, many people have suggested, uninterested in the daily business of governing. In any case, the transition has fallen far behind schedule. Normally, at this time in the cycle, the president-elect's picks for top posts would already be in the agencies they plan to run, getting carefully prepared briefings from senior staff and taking stock. This is apparently not happening. When Trump haphazardly met the leader of Japan last week at Trump's own offices in New York, his transition team had yet to even contact the State Department .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2qcbu26gs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 29, 2016, 12:30:33 PM
Ah lads he's retweeting 16 year olds . . .

He says there were millions of illegal votes and then expects CNN to come up with proof that there were no illegal votes?!! This is going to be a long 4 years!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:21:17 AM
Steve Mnuchin to be Treasury Secretary.

"Drain that swamp!"

Who's in the pocket of Goldman Sachs again?  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 12:27:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:21:17 AM
Steve Mnuchin to be Treasury Secretary.

"Drain that swamp!"

Who's in the pocket of Goldman Sachs again?  ;D

Biggest fraud in the history of the US
Watch the last ad again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

Trump will remove Financial regulation and the economy will have the biggest crash in the history of the US

Goldman hasn't been able to generate a 10% rate of return for 2 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 30, 2016, 12:27:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:21:17 AM
Steve Mnuchin to be Treasury Secretary.

"Drain that swamp!"

Who's in the pocket of Goldman Sachs again?  ;D

You've just misinterpreted him.  He's talking about literally draining an actual swamp that happens to be in DC.  Nothing metaphorical about it at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on November 30, 2016, 12:29:58 AM
Trump will be draining the the wallets of everyone who voted for him from the middle class and low end income earners instead of "Draining the Swamp". The only people who will benefit are the top 10% and corporations (since the Repubs had corps approved as the equivalent as people).

So far, his appointed postitions reek of social, economical and financial arrogance that the repubs have been pushing since the 70's.

This man is heading the country into an abyss that will take 20+ years to rectify.

I hope he does well for the sake of the citizens but that seems unreasonable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2016, 01:05:49 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on November 30, 2016, 12:29:58 AM
Trump will be draining the the wallets of everyone who voted for him from the middle class and low end income earners instead of "Draining the Swamp". The only people who will benefit are the top 10% and corporations (since the Repubs had corps approved as the equivalent as people).

So far, his appointed postitions reek of social, economical and financial arrogance that the repubs have been pushing since the 70's.

This man is heading the country into an abyss that will take 20+ years to rectify.

I hope he does well for the sake of the citizens but that seems unreasonable.

I think whitey is being proved correct so far with his Dr. Evil henchmen cabinet comparison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 08:43:48 AM
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/our-fragile-constitution/403237/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 30, 2016, 09:31:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 12:27:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:21:17 AM
Steve Mnuchin to be Treasury Secretary.

"Drain that swamp!"

Who's in the pocket of Goldman Sachs again?  ;D

Biggest fraud in the history of the US
Watch the last ad again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

Trump will remove Financial regulation and the economy will have the biggest crash in the history of the US

Goldman hasn't been able to generate a 10% rate of return for 2 years.

Stop it Foid!

Nothing will ever touch the Wall Street crash of 29.

Again the man has not even taken office yet, I am still hoping he decides to stay with his own companies and decides to step down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 30, 2016, 09:39:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 30, 2016, 09:31:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 12:27:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:21:17 AM
Steve Mnuchin to be Treasury Secretary.

"Drain that swamp!"

Who's in the pocket of Goldman Sachs again?  ;D

Biggest fraud in the history of the US
Watch the last ad again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

Trump will remove Financial regulation and the economy will have the biggest crash in the history of the US

Goldman hasn't been able to generate a 10% rate of return for 2 years.

Stop it Foid!

Nothing will ever touch the Wall Street crash of 29.

Again the man has not even taken office yet, I am still hoping he decides to stay with his own companies and decides to step down.

No chance, he's going to use the Presidency as a business development tool sure he already is!!!

Republicans too afraid to mention the conflict of interest when it's staring them in the face!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 30, 2016, 11:48:16 AM
Interesting read here - What So Many People Don't Get About the U.S. Working Class

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class (https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 30, 2016, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 30, 2016, 11:48:16 AM
Interesting read here - What So Many People Don't Get About the U.S. Working Class

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class (https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class)

She nailed it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 30, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2016, 12:19:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 30, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

The turkeys decided they have had enough of Christmas and voted for Thanksgiving.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 30, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

The part I've bolded in your post is undeniably true.

Yet the article contains the following passage:

Trump's blunt talk taps into another blue-collar value: straight talk. "Directness is a working-class norm," notes Lubrano. As one blue-collar guy told him, "If you have a problem with me, come talk to me. If you have a way you want something done, come talk to me. I don't like people who play these two-faced games." Straight talk is seen as requiring manly courage, not being "a total wuss and a wimp," an electronics technician told Lamont. Of course Trump appeals. Clinton's clunky admission that she talks one way in public and another in private? Further proof she's a two-faced phony.

What Trump says is not directness, straight talk or "telling it like it is" (a wonderful right-wing cliche).

It's the exact opposite - being a two-faced phoney.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2016, 12:55:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 30, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

The part I've bolded in your post is undeniably true.

Yet the article contains the following passage:

Trump's blunt talk taps into another blue-collar value: straight talk. "Directness is a working-class norm," notes Lubrano. As one blue-collar guy told him, "If you have a problem with me, come talk to me. If you have a way you want something done, come talk to me. I don't like people who play these two-faced games." Straight talk is seen as requiring manly courage, not being "a total wuss and a wimp," an electronics technician told Lamont. Of course Trump appeals. Clinton's clunky admission that she talks one way in public and another in private? Further proof she's a two-faced phony.

What Trump says is not directness, straight talk or "telling it like it is" (a wonderful right-wing cliche).

It's the exact opposite - being a two-faced phoney.

Well, at least he's telling them what they want to hear.

Colbert used to call it "truthiness".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 01:04:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2016, 12:55:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 30, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

The part I've bolded in your post is undeniably true.

Yet the article contains the following passage:

Trump's blunt talk taps into another blue-collar value: straight talk. "Directness is a working-class norm," notes Lubrano. As one blue-collar guy told him, "If you have a problem with me, come talk to me. If you have a way you want something done, come talk to me. I don't like people who play these two-faced games." Straight talk is seen as requiring manly courage, not being "a total wuss and a wimp," an electronics technician told Lamont. Of course Trump appeals. Clinton's clunky admission that she talks one way in public and another in private? Further proof she's a two-faced phony.

What Trump says is not directness, straight talk or "telling it like it is" (a wonderful right-wing cliche).

It's the exact opposite - being a two-faced phoney.

Well, at least he's telling them what they want to hear.

Colbert used to call it "truthiness".
But it does rather destroy the notion of the white working class valuing "straight talk".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 30, 2016, 01:36:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 01:04:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2016, 12:55:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 30, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

The part I've bolded in your post is undeniably true.

Yet the article contains the following passage:

Trump's blunt talk taps into another blue-collar value: straight talk. "Directness is a working-class norm," notes Lubrano. As one blue-collar guy told him, "If you have a problem with me, come talk to me. If you have a way you want something done, come talk to me. I don't like people who play these two-faced games." Straight talk is seen as requiring manly courage, not being "a total wuss and a wimp," an electronics technician told Lamont. Of course Trump appeals. Clinton's clunky admission that she talks one way in public and another in private? Further proof she's a two-faced phony.

What Trump says is not directness, straight talk or "telling it like it is" (a wonderful right-wing cliche).

It's the exact opposite - being a two-faced phoney.

Well, at least he's telling them what they want to hear.

Colbert used to call it "truthiness".
But it does rather destroy the notion of the white working class valuing "straight talk".

She did mention WWC and their disdain for professionals (I'll lump career politicians in here as well) but they have a respect for self made ( if you don't consider Daddy's loans) men like Trump and you get the impression Trump played them like a Banjo and they probably knew it but couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary.

Change at all costs it seems!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 30, 2016, 02:41:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2016, 12:19:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 30, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

The turkeys decided they have had enough of Christmas and voted for Thanksgiving.

The part that many find hard to stomach is not just the death of their jobs, but that it was linked directly to international trade deals.

The most significant deal was the China one, 1 million manufacturing jobs lost after it.

Anybody who has had any experience with Chinese manufacturing, a couple of observations can be made
So Chinese companies cut corners and costs, child labor, environmental, quality standards nowhere near US standards, and the government signed a trade deal that opened up the US market to them. So US manufacturing workers are held to a higher standard are competing against a lower cost structure due to different standards being applied to them.

These jobs might not come back, but future jobs should be protected with trade deals that put US manufacturing on an equal footing.

Regarding jobs, these people want to work, so has the government put in-place incentives for companies to relocate to these areas??? If not, why not? That's a major issue that Trump needs to address (corp tax rate of 15% would be a big help)

And BTW, this is not a white issue, this is an issue that crosses racial divide. During this election, the white areas decided that this was the important topic, but resolving this issues for African American
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 30, 2016, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 01:04:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2016, 12:55:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 30, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

The part I've bolded in your post is undeniably true.

Yet the article contains the following passage:

Trump's blunt talk taps into another blue-collar value: straight talk. "Directness is a working-class norm," notes Lubrano. As one blue-collar guy told him, "If you have a problem with me, come talk to me. If you have a way you want something done, come talk to me. I don't like people who play these two-faced games." Straight talk is seen as requiring manly courage, not being "a total wuss and a wimp," an electronics technician told Lamont. Of course Trump appeals. Clinton's clunky admission that she talks one way in public and another in private? Further proof she's a two-faced phony.

What Trump says is not directness, straight talk or "telling it like it is" (a wonderful right-wing cliche).

It's the exact opposite - being a two-faced phoney.

Well, at least he's telling them what they want to hear.

Colbert used to call it "truthiness".
But it does rather destroy the notion of the white working class valuing "straight talk".

As has been noted though they don't see the part where he doesn't mean it. All they see is him talking out his ass but then don't read the paper/watch CNN the next day to realise it was a complete load of horsehit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 02:52:37 PM
Angry bluecollar voters don't understand the system.  American companies shafted their workers by exporting jobs to China but it was fabulous for shareholders.
American companies shafted voters by gutting Financial regulation and the bill came with Lehman but it was fabulous for shareholders when the Fed refloated  the bubble.

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 03:43:16 PM

Quote from: screenexile on November 30, 2016, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 01:04:48 PM

But it does rather destroy the notion of the white working class valuing "straight talk".

As has been noted though they don't see the part where he doesn't mean it. All they see is him talking out his ass but then don't read the paper/watch CNN the next day to realise it was a complete load of horsehit!
"Straight talk" in politics is a euphemism for complex problems being explained in simplistic ways. Simplistic explanations cannot explain complex things and distort reality by telling people what they want to hear, so they aren't straight talk at all.

Complex, nuanced explanations, which involve an investment of some time to understand, but are often not what people want to hear, are derided as "phoniness".

But complex, nuanced explanations and arguments can also be dressed up to cloak absolute bullshit.

So:
"Straight talk" = phoniness
Complex, nuanced explanations can = real straight talk
but
"Complex, nuanced explanations" can also = barefaced lies

Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 02:52:37 PM

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.
Muslims are only interested in prophets which means the ordinary blue collar white guy loses his job. Therefore Muslims are the problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2016, 04:32:41 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 30, 2016, 02:41:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2016, 12:19:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 30, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

The turkeys decided they have had enough of Christmas and voted for Thanksgiving.

The part that many find hard to stomach is not just the death of their jobs, but that it was linked directly to international trade deals.

The most significant deal was the China one, 1 million manufacturing jobs lost after it.

Anybody who has had any experience with Chinese manufacturing, a couple of observations can be made

  • [/China adherence to employee conditions (or lack of)
    China's commitment to quality (or lack off) li]
    China's commitment to environmental conditions (or lack of)
So Chinese companies cut corners and costs, child labor, environmental, quality standards nowhere near US standards, and the government signed a trade deal that opened up the US market to them. So US manufacturing workers are held to a higher standard are competing against a lower cost structure due to different standards being applied to them.

These jobs might not come back, but future jobs should be protected with trade deals that put US manufacturing on an equal footing.

Regarding jobs, these people want to work, so has the government put in-place incentives for companies to relocate to these areas??? If not, why not? That's a major issue that Trump needs to address (corp tax rate of 15% would be a big help)

And BTW, this is not a white issue, this is an issue that crosses racial divide. During this election, the white areas decided that this was the important topic, but resolving this issues for African American

It's a trade off.

Trade deals = cheap consumer products.

Now I've no objection whatsoever to trade deals including requirements and standards for worker, child and environmental safety. I'd encourage it. Means government inspections though, which might not go over well in certain sections.

On the corporate tax rate - no real objection to that, at the moment, either, although the shortfall will have to be made somewhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 30, 2016, 04:53:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 03:43:16 PM

Quote from: screenexile on November 30, 2016, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 30, 2016, 01:04:48 PM

But it does rather destroy the notion of the white working class valuing "straight talk".

As has been noted though they don't see the part where he doesn't mean it. All they see is him talking out his ass but then don't read the paper/watch CNN the next day to realise it was a complete load of horsehit!
"Straight talk" in politics is a euphemism for complex problems being explained in simplistic ways. Simplistic explanations cannot explain complex things and distort reality by telling people what they want to hear, so they aren't straight talk at all.

Complex, nuanced explanations, which involve an investment of some time to understand, but are often not what people want to hear, are derided as "phoniness".

But complex, nuanced explanations and arguments can also be dressed up to cloak absolute bullshit.

So:
"Straight talk" = phoniness
Complex, nuanced explanations can = real straight talk
but
"Complex, nuanced explanations" can also = barefaced lies

Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 02:52:37 PM

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.
Muslims are only interested in prophets which means the ordinary blue collar white guy loses his job. Therefore Muslims are the problem.

Good post Sid. Helping the masses strive for the "American dream" a la Joe the plumber has been one of the great con jobs of all time and it's beauty is the simplicity of the message.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 05:02:34 PM
Cheap consumer products and cheap debt were the deal  for stagnant wages. It worked beautifully while the richest 1% captured all the profits. Now the system is fucked. Even the biggest companies cannot grow their revenues. Even if Trumpcuts tax to 15% revenues will tank. That means junk bonds will be in trouble.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2016, 10:12:53 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/12/05/trump-sets-private-prisons-free (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/12/05/trump-sets-private-prisons-free)

...Just as we spend billions on weapons systems that we may not need, so, too, we jail more people than we need for longer than necessary, because it keeps someone's balance sheet healthy. In recent years, an unlikely coalition of conservatives and liberals had made some progress in weakening this system, going after policies like mandatory sentences. Trump's election will make it much harder to sustain that progress. Private prisons, he said earlier this year, "work a lot better," and he'll doubtless look to expand their reach. And he has a simple and grim answer to how many people we should put in prisons and detention centers: More. ♦...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 10:21:13 PM
There is a $12 tn difference between Trump's flaithiúlachas and The GOP congressional party when it comes to budgets.

Give him 3 months and it will be as chaotic as Brexit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2016, 10:36:50 PM
I see Bertie has picked up the change in wind direction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 30, 2016, 11:34:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 02:52:37 PM
Angry bluecollar voters don't understand the system.  American companies shafted their workers by exporting jobs to China but it was fabulous for shareholders.
American companies shafted voters by gutting Financial regulation and the bill came with Lehman but it was fabulous for shareholders when the Fed refloated  the bubble.

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.

The problem is Bill Clinton and every President since these crappy trade deals were put in place, incentivize companies to go to West Virginia and hammer the shIt via tariff out of the likes of Ford etc, any company that went abroad to make larger profits and took the jobs with them!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2016, 11:52:04 PM
Quote from: stew on November 30, 2016, 11:34:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 02:52:37 PM
Angry bluecollar voters don't understand the system.  American companies shafted their workers by exporting jobs to China but it was fabulous for shareholders.
American companies shafted voters by gutting Financial regulation and the bill came with Lehman but it was fabulous for shareholders when the Fed refloated  the bubble.

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.

The problem is Bill Clinton and every President since these crappy trade deals were put in place, incentivize companies to go to West Virginia and hammer the shIt via tariff out of the likes of Ford etc, any company that went abroad to make larger profits and took the jobs with them!

NAFTA was actually negotiated under the first George Bush. He had to leave the ratification to Clinton because he didn't win the second term. Had he won the second term, he would have signed it into law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 30, 2016, 11:56:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2016, 11:52:04 PM
Quote from: stew on November 30, 2016, 11:34:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 02:52:37 PM
Angry bluecollar voters don't understand the system.  American companies shafted their workers by exporting jobs to China but it was fabulous for shareholders.
American companies shafted voters by gutting Financial regulation and the bill came with Lehman but it was fabulous for shareholders when the Fed refloated  the bubble.

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.

The problem is Bill Clinton and every President since these crappy trade deals were put in place, incentivize companies to go to West Virginia and hammer the shIt via tariff out of the likes of Ford etc, any company that went abroad to make larger profits and took the jobs with them!

NAFTA was actually negotiated under the first George Bush. He had to leave the ratification to Clinton because he didn't win the second term. Had he won the second term, he would have signed it into law.

Correct, this was not a Republican v Democrat thing and Clinton was all about Globalization as was old HW!

More money for the boys and screw the working man !
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 01, 2016, 12:38:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 01, 2016, 12:44:14 AM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2016, 12:38:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!

Maybe they listened to him?

Maybe they are still listening to him??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 01, 2016, 01:11:21 AM
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trump-pressed-farage-to-oppose-wind-farms-p6hqqphz9 (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trump-pressed-farage-to-oppose-wind-farms-p6hqqphz9)

Trump 'pressed Farage to oppose wind farms'

..Donald Trump's first weeks as president-elect sparked ethical concerns last night after he appeared to use his new position to advance his personal business interests.

It emerged that he encouraged Nigel Farage, the interim Ukip leader, to redouble his opposition to offshore wind farms in Scotland, apparently for the benefit of one of his properties.

Mr Trump has sought to block the construction of an offshore wind farm near his Menie golf resort in Aberdeenshire so that the turbines would not be seen by golfers..


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2016, 01:23:43 AM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2016, 12:38:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

No, I would lean that way from what I've read (I'm no expert). But given that many economists think it has probably been a net benefit, even if modest, how are you so sure that its been harmful?

The problem in analyzing it is that there are so many variables and it was implemented just as globalization was taking off, so there's no may to know for certain what would have happened had NAFTA not been signed. For every job lost to Mexico, many more have gone to China, and there's NO trade agreement with them.

Quote from: stew on December 01, 2016, 12:38:42 AM
I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!

Of course he can be worse. FAR worse.

But, he's there and we have no choice but to watch and see what he does. Given that it would presumably benefit those of us in the US, I hope he does negotiate better trade deals. What they might look like, I have no idea, and I'm extremely skeptical. Its of a kind with his secret plan for ISIS at this point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2016, 04:35:36 AM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2016, 12:38:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!

Stew Trump is not a trade negotiator. He is the hurler on the ditch who became president 
America is a lady in her 50s who looks beautiful in fading light. Trump has decided to grab her by the Pussy.  A New sitcom that will run for 4 years. Trump thinks he can f**k her back to life . But she has some terrible secrets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnXaY39o2S8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on December 01, 2016, 09:14:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2016, 04:35:36 AM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2016, 12:38:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!

Stew Trump is not a trade negotiator. He is the hurler on the ditch who became president 
America is a lady in her 50s who looks beautiful in fading light. Trump has decided to grab her by the Pussy.  A New sitcom that will run for 4 years. Trump thinks he can f**k her back to life . But she has some terrible secrets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnXaY39o2S8
;D Very good
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 01, 2016, 09:49:48 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 01, 2016, 12:44:14 AM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2016, 12:38:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!

Maybe they listened to him?

Maybe they are still listening to him??

If they had listened to him, truly listened to him they would have figured like I did he is well versed in flip flopping already, you cannot take any of them at their word.7
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on December 01, 2016, 10:38:28 AM
George Soros's criminal days are coming to an end, expect a few last kicks out of him, Obama finally grew a pair with the help of his new friends.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on December 01, 2016, 12:47:40 PM
Breitbart declares war on Kellogg's.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/30/breitbart-news-kelloggs-advertising-boycott-alt-right

"If you serve Kellogg's products to your family, you are serving up bigotry at your breakfast table."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 01, 2016, 04:25:46 PM
So Trump kept a few hundred jobs in Indiana by threatening to tax Carrier when they try to sell their Air Conditioning units back into the US. . .

No wait. Instead of playing tough with these CEO's he actually bent over to offer them tax incentives to keep "some" of the workforce in the US while 1300 US Jobs are going to Mexico anyway!!

I wonder if any of the big US CEO's will try and do the same??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on December 02, 2016, 08:21:56 AM
Was going to put this in the WTF thread

President-elect Donald Trump likes to put forward lies and outlandish conspiracy theories as though they were statements of fact.

One of his most loyal surrogates offered a puzzling defense of this on Thursday, arguing that even Trump's most pernicious statements aren't really lies,because facts themselves no longer exist.

"One thing that's been interesting this entire campaign season to watch is that people that say facts are facts. They're not really facts," Trump surrogate Scottie Nell Hughes said on "The Diane Rehm Show" on NPR. "It's kind of like looking at ratings or looking at a glass of half-full water. Everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth or not true. There's no such thing, unfortunately, anymore as facts."

Hughes, a political commentator and former talk radio producer, was responding to criticism of Trump's recent claim that millions of people voted illegally in November's presidential election. Trump provided no evidence to support this assertion, and there's no sign that any such evidence actually exists.

Hughes also denounced journalists for critically reporting on Trump's lies, saying that the president-elect likes social media because it allows him to "accurately" communicate with voters.

Her comments left the show's other guests ― a group of journalists ― stunned.

"First, I got to pick my jaw up off the floor here," Politico's Glenn Thrush told Hughes. "Facts are facts. I'm sorry you don't like the facts."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 02, 2016, 09:17:53 AM
Quote from: Declan on December 02, 2016, 08:21:56 AM
Was going to put this in the WTF thread

President-elect Donald Trump likes to put forward lies and outlandish conspiracy theories as though they were statements of fact.

One of his most loyal surrogates offered a puzzling defense of this on Thursday, arguing that even Trump's most pernicious statements aren't really lies,because facts themselves no longer exist.

"One thing that's been interesting this entire campaign season to watch is that people that say facts are facts. They're not really facts," Trump surrogate Scottie Nell Hughes said on "The Diane Rehm Show" on NPR. "It's kind of like looking at ratings or looking at a glass of half-full water. Everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth or not true. There's no such thing, unfortunately, anymore as facts."

Hughes, a political commentator and former talk radio producer, was responding to criticism of Trump's recent claim that millions of people voted illegally in November's presidential election. Trump provided no evidence to support this assertion, and there's no sign that any such evidence actually exists.

Hughes also denounced journalists for critically reporting on Trump's lies, saying that the president-elect likes social media because it allows him to "accurately" communicate with voters.

Her comments left the show's other guests ― a group of journalists ― stunned.

"First, I got to pick my jaw up off the floor here," Politico's Glenn Thrush told Hughes. "Facts are facts. I'm sorry you don't like the facts."
Trump is wall to wall bullshit . Clearing the swamp for Goldman Sachs.  Serving people with tax cuts for the rich. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on December 02, 2016, 10:33:20 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2016, 04:25:46 PM
So Trump kept a few hundred jobs in Indiana by threatening to tax Carrier when they try to sell their Air Conditioning units back into the US. . .

No wait. Instead of playing tough with these CEO's he actually bent over to offer them tax incentives to keep "some" of the workforce in the US while 1300 US Jobs are going to Mexico anyway!!

I wonder if any of the big US CEO's will try and do the same??!!

The tax incentives is the fundamental issue for job creation.
Democrats want to tax corporations at a higher rate than republicans to fund fed. / state programs and benefits. foreign nations which funds fed. Republicans believe that if you create favorable conditions by lowering corp tax, companies will be incentivized to locate / remain in the US, thus creating jobs, and taking a burden off the benefits programs ,

For example, US 'v' Mexico manufacturing. Us has a higher tax and Mexico can supply a cheaper fork force, all supported by trade deals endorced by Washington. This leads to the draining of US jobs to low cost countries to maintain or improve gross profits.

The republican strategy of countering this is lowering corp tax for companies who keep jobs in the US, or impose increases in import tax. Once it becomes financial beneficial to remain in the US, business will make that decision.

This is a sign of where the Trump presidency is heading, which might be a big issue for Ireland
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 02, 2016, 01:36:29 PM
QuoteRepublicans believe that if you create favorable conditions by lowering corp tax, companies will be incentivized to locate / remain in the US, thus creating jobs, and taking a burden off the benefits programs ,

Believing does not make it so.

Mathematics and evidence on the other hand would point to the fact that (ceteris paribus) lowering of corporate tax rates does one thing and one thing only. Lowers corporate tax revenue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 02, 2016, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on December 02, 2016, 10:33:20 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2016, 04:25:46 PM
So Trump kept a few hundred jobs in Indiana by threatening to tax Carrier when they try to sell their Air Conditioning units back into the US. . .

No wait. Instead of playing tough with these CEO's he actually bent over to offer them tax incentives to keep "some" of the workforce in the US while 1300 US Jobs are going to Mexico anyway!!

I wonder if any of the big US CEO's will try and do the same??!!

The tax incentives is the fundamental issue for job creation.
Democrats want to tax corporations at a higher rate than republicans to fund fed. / state programs and benefits. foreign nations which funds fed. Republicans believe that if you create favorable conditions by lowering corp tax, companies will be incentivized to locate / remain in the US, thus creating jobs, and taking a burden off the benefits programs ,

For example, US 'v' Mexico manufacturing. Us has a higher tax and Mexico can supply a cheaper fork force, all supported by trade deals endorced by Washington. This leads to the draining of US jobs to low cost countries to maintain or improve gross profits.

The republican strategy of countering this is lowering corp tax for companies who keep jobs in the US, or impose increases in import tax. Once it becomes financial beneficial to remain in the US, business will make that decision.

This is a sign of where the Trump presidency is heading, which might be a big issue for Ireland

How low will the tax have to go to make it financially beneficial to forgo cheaper materials, labour and transport costs abroad? What will this do for consumer prices in the US, especially if tariffs are increased?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 02, 2016, 01:43:41 PM
Quote from: Declan on December 02, 2016, 08:21:56 AM
Was going to put this in the WTF thread

President-elect Donald Trump likes to put forward lies and outlandish conspiracy theories as though they were statements of fact.

One of his most loyal surrogates offered a puzzling defense of this on Thursday, arguing that even Trump's most pernicious statements aren't really lies,because facts themselves no longer exist.

"One thing that's been interesting this entire campaign season to watch is that people that say facts are facts. They're not really facts," Trump surrogate Scottie Nell Hughes said on "The Diane Rehm Show" on NPR. "It's kind of like looking at ratings or looking at a glass of half-full water. Everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth or not true. There's no such thing, unfortunately, anymore as facts."

Hughes, a political commentator and former talk radio producer, was responding to criticism of Trump's recent claim that millions of people voted illegally in November's presidential election. Trump provided no evidence to support this assertion, and there's no sign that any such evidence actually exists.

Hughes also denounced journalists for critically reporting on Trump's lies, saying that the president-elect likes social media because it allows him to "accurately" communicate with voters.

Her comments left the show's other guests ― a group of journalists ― stunned.

"First, I got to pick my jaw up off the floor here," Politico's Glenn Thrush told Hughes. "Facts are facts. I'm sorry you don't like the facts."

This is the party (and especially the politician/leader) that rejects climate change and evolution and embraces gay conversion therapy and conspiracy theories in general.

Is anyone really surprised that his spokesperson would say something like this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 02, 2016, 01:45:01 PM
Tax cuts will go straight to shareholders just as low interest rates did.
Everyone in the Trump cabinet is a shill for the ultra rich
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 02, 2016, 01:56:36 PM
He's right to a certain extent... people or the people who vote for Tump/Brexit don't care whether something is true or false if they like the sound of it they will vote for it.

Look at the wall, £350m a week to the NHS (Davies has now said they will pay back into the EU again for single market access, what a clusterfuck), Hillary going to jail.

They all lapped it up at the time but now it has served its purpose these facts will be thrown on the scrap heap safe in the knowledge that the people who voted for it can now do nothing about it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 02, 2016, 03:12:02 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on December 02, 2016, 10:33:20 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2016, 04:25:46 PM
So Trump kept a few hundred jobs in Indiana by threatening to tax Carrier when they try to sell their Air Conditioning units back into the US. . .

No wait. Instead of playing tough with these CEO's he actually bent over to offer them tax incentives to keep "some" of the workforce in the US while 1300 US Jobs are going to Mexico anyway!!

I wonder if any of the big US CEO's will try and do the same??!!

The tax incentives is the fundamental issue for job creation.
Democrats want to tax corporations at a higher rate than republicans to fund fed. / state programs and benefits. foreign nations which funds fed. Republicans believe that if you create favorable conditions by lowering corp tax, companies will be incentivized to locate / remain in the US, thus creating jobs, and taking a burden off the benefits programs ,

For example, US 'v' Mexico manufacturing. Us has a higher tax and Mexico can supply a cheaper fork force, all supported by trade deals endorced by Washington. This leads to the draining of US jobs to low cost countries to maintain or improve gross profits.

The republican strategy of countering this is lowering corp tax for companies who keep jobs in the US, or impose increases in import tax. Once it becomes financial beneficial to remain in the US, business will make that decision.

This is a sign of where the Trump presidency is heading, which might be a big issue for Ireland

The Republican's have pushing lower taxes as a job creator for over 30 years. It has only worked to create income disparity. When rich people get more money they either save it or spend it on trips to Monte Carlo. Neither does anything to create jobs in the US. Demand creates jobs and transferring wealth to poor and middle income families will increase spending power here in the US which will increase demand. So a massive Infrastructure spend in the US paid for by a tax increase on the wealthy would get the economy galloping. Obama waned to do both but was blocked at every turn by Senate and House republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 03, 2016, 09:49:04 PM
http://www.mnftiu.cc/category/gywo/war81/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 04, 2016, 09:36:44 PM
(http://thehigherlearning.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/highest-paid-employee.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 05, 2016, 12:30:27 PM
All around me I saw it reproduced, mostly behind bars, on "Crooked Hillary" buttons and "Hillary for Jail!" sweatshirts and much, much worse. "Hillary Clinton murders children!" a middle-aged woman waiting in the two-mile-long line had shouted. "It's been proved. Hillary Clinton rapes and murders children."

And so ....


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/05/gunman-detained-at-comet-pizza-restaurant-was-self-investigating-fake-news-reports
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 05, 2016, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2016, 12:30:27 PM
All around me I saw it reproduced, mostly behind bars, on "Crooked Hillary" buttons and "Hillary for Jail!" sweatshirts and much, much worse. "Hillary Clinton murders children!" a middle-aged woman waiting in the two-mile-long line had shouted. "It's been proved. Hillary Clinton rapes and murders children."

And so ....


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/05/gunman-detained-at-comet-pizza-restaurant-was-self-investigating-fake-news-reports

There are people on this board who believed every crackpot conspiracy theory, as long as it was about Hilary Clinton. That daft gunman isn't the only one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 06, 2016, 12:48:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 05, 2016, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2016, 12:30:27 PM
All around me I saw it reproduced, mostly behind bars, on "Crooked Hillary" buttons and "Hillary for Jail!" sweatshirts and much, much worse. "Hillary Clinton murders children!" a middle-aged woman waiting in the two-mile-long line had shouted. "It's been proved. Hillary Clinton rapes and murders children."

And so ....


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/05/gunman-detained-at-comet-pizza-restaurant-was-self-investigating-fake-news-reports

There are people on this board who believed every crackpot conspiracy theory, as long as it was about Hilary Clinton. That daft gunman isn't the only one.

The f**king Secretary of Defense in-waiting was pushing this idiocy. His son still is.

But we have to take seriously and treat with respect people who push and believe stories such as Hillary running a child sex ring out of a pizzeria.

To do otherwise would be elitist and prove we are out of touch and doomed for a long spell on the political sidelines.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 06, 2016, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2016, 12:48:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 05, 2016, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2016, 12:30:27 PM
All around me I saw it reproduced, mostly behind bars, on "Crooked Hillary" buttons and "Hillary for Jail!" sweatshirts and much, much worse. "Hillary Clinton murders children!" a middle-aged woman waiting in the two-mile-long line had shouted. "It's been proved. Hillary Clinton rapes and murders children."

And so ....


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/05/gunman-detained-at-comet-pizza-restaurant-was-self-investigating-fake-news-reports

There are people on this board who believed every crackpot conspiracy theory, as long as it was about Hilary Clinton. That daft gunman isn't the only one.

The f**king Secretary of Defense in-waiting was pushing this idiocy. His son still is.

But we have to take seriously and treat with respect people who push and believe stories such as Hillary running a child sex ring out of a pizzeria.

To do otherwise would be elitist and prove we are out of touch and doomed for a long spell on the political sidelines.
Eric Bristow is believed to be in the running for Secretary for Children's Affairs with special responsibility for historic cases of child sex abuse.

Nigel Farage has recommended him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 06, 2016, 02:26:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 05, 2016, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2016, 12:30:27 PM
All around me I saw it reproduced, mostly behind bars, on "Crooked Hillary" buttons and "Hillary for Jail!" sweatshirts and much, much worse. "Hillary Clinton murders children!" a middle-aged woman waiting in the two-mile-long line had shouted. "It's been proved. Hillary Clinton rapes and murders children."

And so ....


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/05/gunman-detained-at-comet-pizza-restaurant-was-self-investigating-fake-news-reports

There are people on this board who believed every crackpot conspiracy theory, as long as it was about Hilary Clinton. That daft gunman isn't the only one.
The scale of the Trump fraud is immense
He won't bring back one steel job
He won't help abandoned communities
He will feed tax cuts to the already filthy rich
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 08:52:05 PM
Time "Person of the Year" : 1938: Hitler 1939: Stalin 2007: Putin and now 2016: Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 07, 2016, 11:26:55 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 08:52:05 PM
Time "Person of the Year" : 1938: Hitler 1939: Stalin 2007: Putin and now 2016: Trump.
pope Francis .obama . Fdr. Churchill .bill Clinton . Ghandhi .jfk to mention a few more won it also why lump trump in with Hitler's and Stalin ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on December 08, 2016, 12:53:34 AM
Because, Captain, it's Obvious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 08, 2016, 01:13:44 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 08, 2016, 12:53:34 AM
Because, Captain, it's Obvious.

Is it f**k!

Is Trump going to kill 20 million of his own people, US he going to has 6 million jews?

The only thing here that is obvious is your hatred, thanks for reminding me why I despise liberalism in the USA!

You thought your comment smart, it is hate filled, ignorant and your hero Clintons career is politically dead, chew on that and ask yourself why!

Therin lies the answer.

I hope Trump is a great President just so I can laugh at all you,union liberal loving dolts that don't get the fact that the country told you to eff off you corrupt aholes.)

How bout dem unions )

Trump is President, Chaw yall on that, accept defeat like a man and support the new commander in chief! )



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on December 08, 2016, 04:08:29 AM
Linda f**king McMahon appointed to cabinet. Everyone glossing over trump's biggest achievement. He'll be the first POTUS to be a member of the WWE Hall of Fame.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on December 08, 2016, 05:04:33 AM
Stew, I don't know what happened to you over the last couple of years, but whatever it was, it has had a very bad effect on your personality.  You were once gregarious, cheerful and generous, but now you are perpetually angry.  I am concerned about your welfare and hope things improve for you and that someone is helping you.

I can't project what Trump will do, but potentially he is very dangerous.  His xenophobic rants are alarming.  He has spoken of rounding up millions of people, essentially interning them first before deporting them, a campaign promise that has prompted his sidekick, Newt Gingrich, to suggest opening internment camps like the ones used to corral the Japanese-Americans in WWII.  You'll recall, I imagine, that prior to exterminating 6 million Jews, Hitler built concentration camps and created ghettoes. I don't believe that Trump will exterminate people, but he is a loose cannon with a hair-trigger temper, so anything's possible.  He has spoken, too, of creating a registry of Muslims.  Hitler kept a registry of Jews.

You have noticed, I'm sure, that hate crimes have increased since his election and that white supremacists feel emboldened to recruit, assemble and intimidate. Swastikas are appearing on mosques, and churches that welcome LGBT worshipers have been daubed with offensive language. You'll remember that these are the sort of things that preceded Kristallnacht in 1938.
I am alarmed, too, that Trump appears not to read, is geo-politically illiterate, and gleans his "information" from discredited websites like Breitbart and Drudge, and I am further distressed that he holds the serious press (e.g. NYT, Washington Post) in such low regard and wishes to loosen libel laws so that they will feel coerced not to write anything derogatory about him.  You have seen how irate he is at the SNL sketches that poke fun at him. He cannot abide satire.  I am seriously worried about freedom of the press and am concerned for the welfare of journalists, hatred for whom he perpetually stirs up at his rallies.  You remember that under Hitler all media—books, newspapers, films, public events—were censored if they were thought to present opposing viewpoints.

I am alarmed, too, that Donald Trump is an advocate of torture and wishes to expand its use, not to mention the fact that he has openly expressed support for war crimes, e.g. bombing civilians.  You'll recollect the Nuremberg Trials, designed to bring Nazi war criminals to justice.

You ask if he will kill millions, Stew.  I don't know, but I am alarmed that, like a kid at Christmas, he is fascinated by weapons, only in this case nuclear ones, and he wonders why, if we have them, we don't use them.  And I'm afraid that he seems intent on nuclear proliferation, e.g. that Japan and Saudi Arabia should have them.  You remember, I've no doubt, that Hitler was fascinated by weapons and expanded Germany's military power. Just as Trump wishes to do.

And he is a compulsive liar.  I am alarmed that people can't tell that he's lying or, worse yet, don't care.  Think back to Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister, who said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."  Trump has succeeded in doing just that.

Stew, I could expound at length on this topic, but it wouldn't matter.  You have your mind made up, and in this post-fact society that we inhabit, you won't let evidence get in the way of passion.

Seriously, though, take care of yourself.  And if you happen to be on Facebook, check out 1970s ARMAGH MEMORIES. You'll undoubtedly know some of the people.  And if you ever do go home to Armagh, when you stop in to Devlin's for a pint, think of me because I can't ever go home again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 08:07:28 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pizzagate-from-rumor-to-hashtag-to-gunfire-in-dc/2016/12/06/4c7def50-bbd4-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 08:09:44 AM
Quote from: stew on December 08, 2016, 01:13:44 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 08, 2016, 12:53:34 AM
Because, Captain, it's Obvious.

Is it f**k!

Is Trump going to kill 20 million of his own people, US he going to has 6 million jews?

The only thing here that is obvious is your hatred, thanks for reminding me why I despise liberalism in the USA!

You thought your comment smart, it is hate filled, ignorant and your hero Clintons career is politically dead, chew on that and ask yourself why!

Therin lies the answer.

I hope Trump is a great President just so I can laugh at all you,union liberal loving dolts that don't get the fact that the country told you to eff off you corrupt aholes.)

How bout dem unions )

Trump is President, Chaw yall on that, accept defeat like a man and support the new commander in chief! )

Stew do you think giving tax cuts to the plutocrats will get the Us economy going? Armagh are more likely to win Sam next year than that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 08:19:40 AM
The whole point of the checks and balances including the Electoral College was to stop assholes like Trump becoming president

‏@jonathanweisman
Jonathan Weisman retweeted Dave Wasserman
Astounding. @HillaryClinton popular vote lead is now 2,708,632. Gore's lead over Bush was 543,816.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 08, 2016, 08:32:57 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 08:07:28 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pizzagate-from-rumor-to-hashtag-to-gunfire-in-dc/2016/12/06/4c7def50-bbd4-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html

I love the term "self investigate", and come armed just in case your investigation leads to a conslusion that isnt to your liking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 08:45:41 AM
Boeing have hit back at Trump re Air Force one

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/308990-boeing-says-it-is-under-170-million-contract-to-work-on-air-force-one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on December 08, 2016, 11:04:48 AM
Great post, Oraisteach.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 11:17:11 AM


1.   Bill de Blasio ‏@NYCMayor 5 déc.
Officer Aml Elsokary – one of 900 Muslim-Americans in the NYPD – was attacked because of her faith. We stand with her. #AlwaysNewYork

1.   Ronald Klain ‏@RonaldKlain 6 déc.
This is not "normal:" Today, Trump tweeted cancellation of a contract, employing thousands, after reading that Boeing had criticized him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 08, 2016, 05:04:33 AM
Stew, I don't know what happened to you over the last couple of years, but whatever it was, it has had a very bad effect on your personality.  You were once gregarious, cheerful and generous, but now you are perpetually angry.  I am concerned about your welfare and hope things improve for you and that someone is helping you.

I can't project what Trump will do, but potentially he is very dangerous.  His xenophobic rants are alarming.  He has spoken of rounding up millions of people, essentially interning them first before deporting them, a campaign promise that has prompted his sidekick, Newt Gingrich, to suggest opening internment camps like the ones used to corral the Japanese-Americans in WWII.  You'll recall, I imagine, that prior to exterminating 6 million Jews, Hitler built concentration camps and created ghettoes. I don't believe that Trump will exterminate people, but he is a loose cannon with a hair-trigger temper, so anything's possible.  He has spoken, too, of creating a registry of Muslims.  Hitler kept a registry of Jews.

You have noticed, I'm sure, that hate crimes have increased since his election and that white supremacists feel emboldened to recruit, assemble and intimidate. Swastikas are appearing on mosques, and churches that welcome LGBT worshipers have been daubed with offensive language. You'll remember that these are the sort of things that preceded Kristallnacht in 1938.
I am alarmed, too, that Trump appears not to read, is geo-politically illiterate, and gleans his "information" from discredited websites like Breitbart and Drudge, and I am further distressed that he holds the serious press (e.g. NYT, Washington Post) in such low regard and wishes to loosen libel laws so that they will feel coerced not to write anything derogatory about him.  You have seen how irate he is at the SNL sketches that poke fun at him. He cannot abide satire.  I am seriously worried about freedom of the press and am concerned for the welfare of journalists, hatred for whom he perpetually stirs up at his rallies.  You remember that under Hitler all media—books, newspapers, films, public events—were censored if they were thought to present opposing viewpoints.

I am alarmed, too, that Donald Trump is an advocate of torture and wishes to expand its use, not to mention the fact that he has openly expressed support for war crimes, e.g. bombing civilians.  You'll recollect the Nuremberg Trials, designed to bring Nazi war criminals to justice.

You ask if he will kill millions, Stew.  I don't know, but I am alarmed that, like a kid at Christmas, he is fascinated by weapons, only in this case nuclear ones, and he wonders why, if we have them, we don't use them.  And I'm afraid that he seems intent on nuclear proliferation, e.g. that Japan and Saudi Arabia should have them.  You remember, I've no doubt, that Hitler was fascinated by weapons and expanded Germany's military power. Just as Trump wishes to do.

And he is a compulsive liar.  I am alarmed that people can't tell that he's lying or, worse yet, don't care.  Think back to Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister, who said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."  Trump has succeeded in doing just that.

Stew, I could expound at length on this topic, but it wouldn't matter.  You have your mind made up, and in this post-fact society that we inhabit, you won't let evidence get in the way of passion.

Seriously, though, take care of yourself.  And if you happen to be on Facebook, check out 1970s ARMAGH MEMORIES. You'll undoubtedly know some of the people.  And if you ever do go home to Armagh, when you stop in to Devlin's for a pint, think of me because I can't ever go home again.
Ar fheabhas , Oraisteach
Very sorry to hear that you can't go back.

Trump is a car crash.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 08, 2016, 12:45:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 08, 2016, 04:08:29 AM
Linda f**king McMahon appointed to cabinet. Everyone glossing over trump's biggest achievement. He'll be the first POTUS to be a member of the WWE Hall of Fame.
Ted DiBiase must be fuming he didn't get Treasury Secretary.

He's certainly more qualified than most of Trump's cabinet picks.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 08, 2016, 01:54:58 PM
It's rather amusing that stew is railing against Hillary as "corrupt" and a "liar" while trying to rub in that a man who has admitted to engaging in corruption of politics over and over, and is possibly the most ignorant, blatant liar ever to run for the office, is president-elect!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 08, 2016, 12:45:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 08, 2016, 04:08:29 AM
Linda f**king McMahon appointed to cabinet. Everyone glossing over trump's biggest achievement. He'll be the first POTUS to be a member of the WWE Hall of Fame.
Ted DiBiase must be fuming he didn't get Treasury Secretary.

He's certainly more qualified than most of Trump's cabinet picks.

EPA appointee a shill of oil and gas and a climate denier. I wonder will Trump actually have the gall to shut the EPA down as he has threatened? Pollution and toxic exposure does begin and end at state lines after all. He may make the Dems period in opposition nice and easy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 08, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 08, 2016, 12:45:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 08, 2016, 04:08:29 AM
Linda f**king McMahon appointed to cabinet. Everyone glossing over trump's biggest achievement. He'll be the first POTUS to be a member of the WWE Hall of Fame.
Ted DiBiase must be fuming he didn't get Treasury Secretary.

He's certainly more qualified than most of Trump's cabinet picks.

EPA appointee a shill of oil and gas and a climate denier. I wonder will Trump actually have the gall to shut the EPA down as he has threatened? Pollution and toxic exposure does begin and end at state lines after all. He may make the Dems period in opposition nice and easy.


I was listening on the INTERNET yesterday to America's MOST LISTENED TO conservative talk show host, Bush Brightshaw, and he had some very interesting things to say.

Very persuasive things.

For decades now the liberal consensus has claimed smoking is bad for your health.

But who is saying this and why? 

Politically correct, biased liberal academia, that's who.

A recent independent report commissioned by the Association of American Tobacco Manufacturers (AATM) revealed some very interesting conclusions. Not only did they find NO correlation between smoking and poor health, but they found there may actually be a correlation between smoking and good health.

The debate will continue, but what we do know is that the science is far from clear.

Some scientists say smoking is bad for your health, some scientists say it's good for your health. I guess the truth is that we just don't know yet.

But people are right to be sceptical.

Tobacco is a natural substance. How can a natural substance be bad for your health? Common sense tells us that's impossible.

I was talking to a 100 year old woman yesterday, my granny. She has smoked for most of her life. So how can smoking be bad for you?

Look, all we can ask is that the liberal media be balanced on the subject. We need fair treatment for tobacco manufacturers and a fair, balanced debate on the merits of smoking.

What we don't need is to listen to biased, liberal doctors who have a clear vested interest in saying smoking is bad for your health.

What are people's thoughts on the subject?

Bush Brightshaw

(http://forum.ybig.ie/uploads/1213/Bush_Brightshaw.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 08, 2016, 12:45:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 08, 2016, 04:08:29 AM
Linda f**king McMahon appointed to cabinet. Everyone glossing over trump's biggest achievement. He'll be the first POTUS to be a member of the WWE Hall of Fame.
Ted DiBiase must be fuming he didn't get Treasury Secretary.

He's certainly more qualified than most of Trump's cabinet picks.

EPA appointee a shill of oil and gas and a climate denier. I wonder will Trump actually have the gall to shut the EPA down as he has threatened? Pollution and toxic exposure does begin and end at state lines after all. He may make the Dems period in opposition nice and easy.
I read an article recently about environmental damage in Louisiana which is strongly GOP. Houses that had to be abandoned because a well collapsed and took nearby land with it. Kids sick with a mystery illness. Environmental regulations are for pussies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 08, 2016, 03:02:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 08, 2016, 12:45:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 08, 2016, 04:08:29 AM
Linda f**king McMahon appointed to cabinet. Everyone glossing over trump's biggest achievement. He'll be the first POTUS to be a member of the WWE Hall of Fame.
Ted DiBiase must be fuming he didn't get Treasury Secretary.

He's certainly more qualified than most of Trump's cabinet picks.

EPA appointee a shill of oil and gas and a climate denier. I wonder will Trump actually have the gall to shut the EPA down as he has threatened? Pollution and toxic exposure does begin and end at state lines after all. He may make the Dems period in opposition nice and easy.
I read an article recently about environmental damage in Louisiana which is strongly GOP. Houses that had to be abandoned because a well collapsed and took nearby land with it. Kids sick with a mystery illness. Environmental regulations are for pussies.
Environmental regulations destroy freedom.

As Jeremy Hopkiss says, "you can't spell environmentalist without mentalist".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on December 08, 2016, 03:30:07 PM
QuoteAs Jeremy Hopkiss says, "you can't spell environmentalist without mentalist".

Love it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 08, 2016, 08:39:51 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 08, 2016, 05:04:33 AM
Stew, I don't know what happened to you over the last couple of years, but whatever it was, it has had a very bad effect on your personality.  You were once gregarious, cheerful and generous, but now you are perpetually angry.  I am concerned about your welfare and hope things improve for you and that someone is helping you.

I can't project what Trump will do, but potentially he is very dangerous.  His xenophobic rants are alarming.  He has spoken of rounding up millions of people, essentially interning them first before deporting them, a campaign promise that has prompted his sidekick, Newt Gingrich, to suggest opening internment camps like the ones used to corral the Japanese-Americans in WWII.  You'll recall, I imagine, that prior to exterminating 6 million Jews, Hitler built concentration camps and created ghettoes. I don't believe that Trump will exterminate people, but he is a loose cannon with a hair-trigger temper, so anything's possible.  He has spoken, too, of creating a registry of Muslims.  Hitler kept a registry of Jews.

You have noticed, I'm sure, that hate crimes have increased since his election and that white supremacists feel emboldened to recruit, assemble and intimidate. Swastikas are appearing on mosques, and churches that welcome LGBT worshipers have been daubed with offensive language. You'll remember that these are the sort of things that preceded Kristallnacht in 1938.
I am alarmed, too, that Trump appears not to read, is geo-politically illiterate, and gleans his "information" from discredited websites like Breitbart and Drudge, and I am further distressed that he holds the serious press (e.g. NYT, Washington Post) in such low regard and wishes to loosen libel laws so that they will feel coerced not to write anything derogatory about him.  You have seen how irate he is at the SNL sketches that poke fun at him. He cannot abide satire.  I am seriously worried about freedom of the press and am concerned for the welfare of journalists, hatred for whom he perpetually stirs up at his rallies.  You remember that under Hitler all media—books, newspapers, films, public events—were censored if they were thought to present opposing viewpoints.

I am alarmed, too, that Donald Trump is an advocate of torture and wishes to expand its use, not to mention the fact that he has openly expressed support for war crimes, e.g. bombing civilians.  You'll recollect the Nuremberg Trials, designed to bring Nazi war criminals to justice.

You ask if he will kill millions, Stew.  I don't know, but I am alarmed that, like a kid at Christmas, he is fascinated by weapons, only in this case nuclear ones, and he wonders why, if we have them, we don't use them.  And I'm afraid that he seems intent on nuclear proliferation, e.g. that Japan and Saudi Arabia should have them.  You remember, I've no doubt, that Hitler was fascinated by weapons and expanded Germany's military power. Just as Trump wishes to do.

And he is a compulsive liar.  I am alarmed that people can't tell that he's lying or, worse yet, don't care.  Think back to Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister, who said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."  Trump has succeeded in doing just that.

Stew, I could expound at length on this topic, but it wouldn't matter.  You have your mind made up, and in this post-fact society that we inhabit, you won't let evidence get in the way of passion.

Seriously, though, take care of yourself.  And if you happen to be on Facebook, check out 1970s ARMAGH MEMORIES. You'll undoubtedly know some of the people.  And if you ever do go home to Armagh, when you stop in to Devlin's for a pint, think of me because I can't ever go home again.

Well said Oraisteach.
I hope that circumstances change and you can buy yourself a pint in Devlin's soon. if you let me know when you get home I will buy the second one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on December 08, 2016, 08:47:00 PM
Thanks, omochain
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 08, 2016, 10:17:47 PM
De nada 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:41:01 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38273933 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38273933)

US intelligence agencies believe Russia acted covertly to boost Donald Trump in the election race, US officials have told leading newspapers.

A report in the New York Times says the agencies had "high confidence" about Russian involvement in hacking.
A CIA assessment reported by the Washington Post made similar findings.

But Mr Trump's team dismissed the CIA line, saying: "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction."


The funniest thing about Trump is that he feels the need to respond to everything immediately. And the scariest thing about Trump is that he feels the need to respond to everything immediately.

His comment on WMDs is an eye-opener. It was a lie, invented by his friends in extreme republican la-la land, but he blames the media for it. This is where we are going in the near future. More lies, more wars and always blame someone else. Rinse and repeat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2016, 12:52:57 PM
I think he is blaming the CIA, whereas it was cherry picking of what they presented by Cheney and co., aided by a servile CIA Director, George Tenet, that was the issue.

Basically the same as what Trump is trying to do now - cow them into supporting his preferred narrative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 10, 2016, 01:12:59 PM
Trump.is an older and richer version of Cathal  McCarron.  He is going to be even worse than Bush 2.
When Rome was in economic trouble it had leaders like Caligula and Nero. So much for American exceptional ism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 01:16:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2016, 12:52:57 PM
I think he is blaming the CIA, whereas it was cherry picking of what they presented by Cheney and co., aided by a servile CIA Director, George Tenet, that was the issue.

Basically the same as what Trump is trying to do now - cow them into supporting his preferred narrative.

That would be even funnier. Blaming the CIA for getting it wrong about Russia helping him win, when the CIA probably did a better job of that themselves!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 10, 2016, 01:20:33 PM
Trump is the dog who caught the bus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2016, 01:23:21 PM
There are claims as well that the Russians also hacked the RNC, but did not release the documents to Wikileaks.

If that is ever confirmed, or if the Russians do at some point decide its time to embarrass Trump and the GOP, should be amusing to hear those that were SOOOO offended by the meddling and unfiltered chat of the DNC.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:29:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

And, like all Trump supporters, you prefer to be ruled by Russians.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 10, 2016, 02:38:32 PM
This week Trump attacked the head of Carrier's union on twitter. #asshole
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:39:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:29:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

And, like all Trump supporters, you prefer to be ruled by Russians.  ;D

Who ever said I was a Trump supporter?  God only know what the Russians have on him.

When Romney warned of the Russian threat during the 2012 debates he was ridiculed and mocked by the Democrats and Obama in a particularly condescending and sneering manner.....c hickens came home to roost for them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 02:54:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:41:01 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38273933 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38273933)

US intelligence agencies believe Russia acted covertly to boost Donald Trump in the election race, US officials have told leading newspapers.

A report in the New York Times says the agencies had "high confidence" about Russian involvement in hacking.
A CIA assessment reported by the Washington Post made similar findings.

But Mr Trump's team dismissed the CIA line, saying: "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction."


The funniest thing about Trump is that he feels the need to respond to everything immediately. And the scariest thing about Trump is that he feels the need to respond to everything immediately.

His comment on WMDs is an eye-opener. It was a lie, invented by his friends in extreme republican la-la land, but he blames the media for it. This is where we are going in the near future. More lies, more wars and always blame someone else. Rinse and repeat.


So what is emerging is potentially a modern day watergate! The CIA lie discredited and weak. Russia were either spying for themselves or somebody else and manipulated the flow of information to create the next us president of their choice...This election was null and Void. What about Asange role. Who was paying him...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:57:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:39:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:29:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

And, like all Trump supporters, you prefer to be ruled by Russians.  ;D

Who ever said I was a Trump supporter?  God only know what the Russians have on him.

When Romney warned of the Russian threat during the 2012 debates he was ridiculed and mocked by the Democrats and Obama in a particularly condescending and sneering manner.....c hickens came home to roost for them

You spent the entire election lambasting 50% of the two candidates. It is blatantly obvious who you wanted to win. It woz the damn emails wot done it.

As for Romney. Here is what he said:

Romney: "There's no question but that in terms of geopolitics -- I'm talking about votes at the United Nations and actions of a geopolitical nature -- Russia is the No. 1 adversary in that regard. That doesn't make them an enemy. It doesn't make them a combatant. They don't represent the No. 1 national security threat. The No. 1 national security threat, of course, to our nation is a nuclear Iran. Time continues to pass. They continue to move towards nuclearization. This is more and more disconcerting and dangerous to the world. But Russia -- particularly look at a place like Syria. Russia has supported the Assad regime even as it has been attacking its own people. Russia likewise has been slow to move to the kinds of sanctions that have been called for in Iran. Russia is a geopolitical adversary, but it's not an enemy with, you know, missiles being fired at one another or things of that nature."

So in this interview, as he would do later in the debate, Romney emphasized the difference between Russia, his No. 1 foe or enemy for the United States, and Iran, his No. 1 threat because of its effort to build nuclear weapons.


But regardless, Putin has some invisible strings over Trump. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

Obama was winning against Russia He severely weakened the Russian and Iranian economies without firing a single shot. The Russians countered by rigging the election in favour of their man. He got Republicans and their voters to fight back for him. Genius.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

You can only rig an election by tampering with vote or the count.

That didn't happen. The election was ligit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

You can only rig an election by tampering with vote or the count.

That didn't happen. The election was ligit.

Democrats blaming everyone but themselves....if they keep it up they'll get wiped out in the midterms in 2018
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 02:54:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:41:01 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38273933 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38273933)

US intelligence agencies believe Russia acted covertly to boost Donald Trump in the election race, US officials have told leading newspapers.

A report in the New York Times says the agencies had "high confidence" about Russian involvement in hacking.
A CIA assessment reported by the Washington Post made similar findings.

But Mr Trump's team dismissed the CIA line, saying: "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction."


The funniest thing about Trump is that he feels the need to respond to everything immediately. And the scariest thing about Trump is that he feels the need to respond to everything immediately.

His comment on WMDs is an eye-opener. It was a lie, invented by his friends in extreme republican la-la land, but he blames the media for it. This is where we are going in the near future. More lies, more wars and always blame someone else. Rinse and repeat.


So what is emerging is potentially a modern day watergate! The CIA lie discredited and weak. Russia were either spying for themselves or somebody else and manipulated the flow of information to create the next us president of their choice...This election was null and Void. What about Asange role. Who was paying him...

Wikileaks claim they only attacked Clinton because that was the only information 'they were given'.

https://wikileaks.org/Assange-Statement-on-the-US-Election.html (https://wikileaks.org/Assange-Statement-on-the-US-Election.html)

...At the same time, we cannot publish what we do not have. To date, we have not received information on Donald Trump's campaign, or Jill Stein's campaign, or Gary Johnson's campaign or any of the other candidates that fufills our stated editorial criteria...

Of course we know it was the Russians doing the giving, so of course they didn't get information on Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:01:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

You can only rig an election by tampering with vote or the count.

That didn't happen. The election was ligit.

Democrats blaming everyone but themselves....if they keep it up they'll get wiped out in the midterms in 2018

It hasn't dawned on you that US elections don't matter any more?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 03:06:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
Democrats blaming everyone but themselves....if they keep it up they'll get wiped out in the midterms in 2018

Yes.

The people of the US selected their President and no one else. Suck it up Dems.
Outside influence is common and accepted in elections. There were TDs out there working for Clinton. Enda Kenny talked badly about Trum in the Dail. That doesn't mean the Irish rigged the election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:01:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

You can only rig an election by tampering with vote or the count.

That didn't happen. The election was ligit.

Democrats blaming everyone but themselves....if they keep it up they'll get wiped out in the midterms in 2018

It hasn't dawned on you that US elections don't matter any more?

It sure matters to the millions of Democrats who are still curled up in the foetal position b cause Trump won-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2016, 03:19:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:01:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

You can only rig an election by tampering with vote or the count.

That didn't happen. The election was ligit.

Democrats blaming everyone but themselves....if they keep it up they'll get wiped out in the midterms in 2018

It hasn't dawned on you that US elections don't matter any more?

It sure matters to the millions of Democrats who are still curled up in the foetal position b cause Trump won-lol

If you had any sense you'd be fearful about Trump too, given his appointments so far.

But you seem more preoccupied/triumphalist with the "suffering" of liberals than with what Trump appears to be set to unleash.

It's ironic how they painted Hillary as a Wall St./Goldman Sachs lackey. Now they're abusing unions from the rust belt.

But that doesn't matter. Hillary supporters are curled up in the foetal position, that's what matters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:26:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:01:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

You can only rig an election by tampering with vote or the count.

That didn't happen. The election was ligit.

Democrats blaming everyone but themselves....if they keep it up they'll get wiped out in the midterms in 2018

It hasn't dawned on you that US elections don't matter any more?

It sure matters to the millions of Democrats who are still curled up in the foetal position b cause Trump won-lol

I suppose you might as well take joy from wherever you can. But you will soon realise that neither the Democrats and Republicans matter for the foreseeable future. We are in totally different territory now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2016, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 03:06:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
Democrats blaming everyone but themselves....if they keep it up they'll get wiped out in the midterms in 2018

Yes.

The people of the US selected their President and no one else. Suck it up Dems.
Outside influence is common and accepted in elections. There were TDs out there working for Clinton. Enda Kenny talked badly about Trum in the Dail. That doesn't mean the Irish rigged the election.

Ends Kenny making a derogatory comment about Trump = Putin using Assange to slow-drip, over months, a flood of embarrassing behind-the-scenes emails from only one side of a two horse race.

Ok.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 10, 2016, 04:40:12 PM
A lot of our liberal friends here moving into conspiracy theory territory we will make republican voters out of Ye yet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 10, 2016, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2016, 03:19:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:01:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
The Russians rigged the election by exposing that the Democrats were rigging the election

You can only rig an election by tampering with vote or the count.

That didn't happen. The election was ligit.

Democrats blaming everyone but themselves....if they keep it up they'll get wiped out in the midterms in 2018

It hasn't dawned on you that US elections don't matter any more?

It sure matters to the millions of Democrats who are still curled up in the foetal position b cause Trump won-lol

If you had any sense you'd be fearful about Trump too, given his appointments so far.

But you seem more preoccupied/triumphalist with the "suffering" of liberals than with what Trump appears to be set to unleash.

It's ironic how they painted Hillary as a Wall St./Goldman Sachs lackey. Now they're abusing unions from the rust belt.

But that doesn't matter. Hillary supporters are curled up in the foetal position, that's what matters.
Clinton the Goldman lackey and Trump appoints Mnunchin and GS #2. And he will bring jobs back to Michigan. Sure he will. Biggest fraud in a very long time 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:12:41 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-secretaryofstate-idUSKBN13Z0P7?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-secretaryofstate-idUSKBN13Z0P7?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social)

Exxon CEO could be Secretary of State.

Thanks God ye didn't elect a Wall St. lakes like Hillary.  ;D

Would are a slap in the face for Mitt. But then I think Republicans are going to be feeling a lot of slaps in the face.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2016, 08:46:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2016, 04:40:12 PM
A lot of our liberal friends here moving into conspiracy theory territory we will make republican voters out of Ye yet

The CIA and other assorted intelligence agencies saying that Russian operatives hacked the DNC and (probably) the RNC is the equivalent of the 9/11 truth movement, creationists, birthers, Jade Helm enthusiasts, Sandy Hook false flaggers (this is probably the most disgusting and deranged) etc.,?

Curious, given that on the one hand you have multiple government agencies, with the inevitable multiple layers of approvals and cover-your-ass bureaucracy, who are involved in a pretty serious business saying something, while on the other you have paranoid idiots with zero critical thinking or analytical skills whose claims never even pass a schoolkid level of scrutiny.

BTW, I'm not losing any sleep over this at all. I've commented weeks ago here that the RNC was probably also exposed and may well be subject to embarrassing revelations at some point. Doesn't change a thing as far as the reality of our coming Conspiracy Theorist in Chief, but still worthy of discussion, surely?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2016, 04:37:37 AM
Bryan Cranston on SNL tonight, as Walter White... Trump's new director of the DEA!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 11, 2016, 07:04:52 AM
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/scott-pruitt-trumps-industry-pick-for-the-e-p-a

By choosing Pruitt, Isaacs said, Trump has outsourced his environmental policy to the Republican Party's most powerful private donors—the oil-and-gas magnates who have funded Pruitt's campaigns in Oklahoma.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 11, 2016, 07:10:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2016, 04:37:37 AM
Bryan Cranston on SNL tonight, as Walter White... Trump's new director of the DEA!  ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3uuOJ09w3o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:25:40 PM
Trump names his new Head of the DEA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQec39cmA8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQec39cmA8A)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 11, 2016, 04:38:48 PM
Trump reminds me of I'm the gaffer when he was managing the Irish soccer team.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:53:05 PM
Trump interview: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38282533 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38282533)

...President-elect Donald Trump has rejected as "ridiculous" a CIA assessment that Russian hackers tried to sway the election in his favour.

He told Fox News the Democrats were putting out the reports because they were embarrassed at the scale of the election defeat...


...Mr Trump also said in the interview he does not require daily intelligence briefings.

"I'm a smart person, I don't need to be told the same thing in the same way for eight years..."


Trump is going nowhere. 8 years and he doesn't want anyone telling him anything. Narcissists are usually like that. They tell you what to do, not the other way round.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 11, 2016, 05:54:04 PM
VERY good comment on YouTube.  "Trump is very stupid for real. All big mouths, liars and sexual predators are. "
He will be a disaster for the US.

Andrew Smithers has a fantastic book called the road to recovery. The GOP slashed taxes in 2001 which helped the economy after 911 but meant there was no margin left on 08 so the deficit was 10%. And debt skyrocketed. Trump will slash tax again meaning the economy will probably collapse before 2020.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 11, 2016, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:53:05 PM
Trump interview: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38282533 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38282533)

...President-elect Donald Trump has rejected as "ridiculous" a CIA assessment that Russian hackers tried to sway the election in his favour.

He told Fox News the Democrats were putting out the reports because they were embarrassed at the scale of the election defeat...


...Mr Trump also said in the interview he does not require daily intelligence briefings.

"I'm a smart person, I don't need to be told the same thing in the same way for eight years..."



He's already rigged the next election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on December 11, 2016, 07:37:49 PM
What election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on December 11, 2016, 07:37:49 PM
What election?

Dunno if this was in jest, but he does like the way Putin does things. And Kim Jung Un. And Assad. And, while they were alive, Gadaffi and Hussein.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/controversial-dictators-leaders-donald-trump-praised/story?id=40373481 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/controversial-dictators-leaders-donald-trump-praised/story?id=40373481)

So some sort of fudge election next time wouldn't be a shock.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on December 12, 2016, 01:23:56 PM
In 1980, average income for the bottom half of the US income distribution was $16,000. It's still $16,000 today.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzA9CMeUcAAkiMB.jpg:large)

No growth for bottom 50% incomes in the US since 1980.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzE-TcuW8AA-NnW.png)

More from the released distributional national accounts. For the median working-age man in the US, zero labor income growth since 1962.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzGdSyfXgAAl6Wc.jpg:large)


Growth of average income in the US since 1980: +61%.
Growth for the bottom 50%: +1%
Growth for the top 0.001%: +636%.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on December 12, 2016, 01:57:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on December 11, 2016, 07:37:49 PM
What election?

Dunno if this was in jest, but he does like the way Putin does things. And Kim Jung Un. And Assad. And, while they were alive, Gadaffi and Hussein.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/controversial-dictators-leaders-donald-trump-praised/story?id=40373481 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/controversial-dictators-leaders-donald-trump-praised/story?id=40373481)

So some sort of fudge election next time wouldn't be a shock.



Only somewhat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 13, 2016, 11:47:00 AM
Tillerson Secretary of State . . . Exxon share price set to rocket as USA gets friendly with Russia!!

But y'know drain the swamp and all that. . . f**king Turkeys voted for Christmas!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on December 13, 2016, 01:45:11 PM
All The President's Billionaires: A Guide To Trump's Gilded Inner Circle

As Donald Trump finalizes his cabinet and plans his transition to 45th President of the United States, his cadre of billionaire advisers -- those with powerful wallets and the Commander-in-Chief's ear -- continues to expand.

Here is a running list of every billionaire member of Trump's inner circle -- from cabinet members to economic advisers and inaugural committee members -- in alphabetical order. Forbes will update it as new information becomes available.

Sheldon Adelson: The casino titan controls Las Vegas Sands Corp. and is a member of Trump's inauguration committee alongside his wife, Miriam.
Trump connection: A political heavyweight who spent more than $100 million trying to elect a Republican in 2012, Adelson apparently committed just $5 million to Trump's campaign. He also owns the Las Vegas Review-Journal, one of the only newspapers in the country to endorse Trump.

Andrew Beal: The Texas investor and founder of Beal Bank is a member of Trump's economic advisory council.
Trump connection: He squared off against Trump in 2009, when he and Carl Icahn unsuccessfully tried to take control of Trump Entertainment Resorts -- which owned Trump's Atlantic City properties -- during bankruptcy. In September Beal gave $2 million to a super PAC he helped set up to support Trump.

Betsy DeVos: Daughter-in-law of billionaire Amway cofounder Richard DeVos, she was named Trump's pick for Secretary of Education.

Harold Hamm: The most successful fracking pioneer, the chairman and CEO of Continental Resources is rumored to be in the running for either energy or interior secretary.
Trump connection: Hamm has been advising Trump on oil and gas for years, earning him a prime speaking slot at the GOP convention in July, where Hamm said Trump would "restore America's rightful place as the energy leader of the world."

Diane Hendricks: The cofounder of roofing giant ABC Supply is America's wealthiest self-made woman and a member of Trump's economic advisory and inaugural committees.
Trump connection: A longtime GOP donor and ardent supporter of Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, Hendricks switched to team Trump after originally giving $5 million to a super PAC supporting Walker's bid for the presidency.

Jon Huntsman, Jr.: The son of billionaire Huntsman Corp. founder Jon Huntsman, the former Utah governor and 2012 presidential candidate is rumored to be under consideration for Secretary of State.
Trump connection: Huntsman, Jr. endorsed Trump in May but called on him to bow out of the race in October after audio showed Trump bragging about committing sexual assault in 2005 (Trump dismissed it as "locker room talk").

Carl Icahn: The activist investor's wife, Gail, serves on Trump's inaugural committee.
Trump connection: Icahn has done deals with Trump for more than 25 years -- he was the biggest bondholder in Trump's Taj Mahal casino during its early-90s bankruptcy, then unsuccessfully attempted to take control of Trump Entertainment Resorts with Andrew Beal in 2009 before successfully taking it over in 2014. In August he reportedly declined an offer to join Trump's economic advisory council.

Linda McMahon: The wife of World Wrestling Entertainment billionaire Vince McMahon, she was named Trump's pick for administrator of the Small Business Administration
Trump connection: The McMahons have given at least $5 million to the Donald J. Trump Foundation; Trump once shaved her husband's hair in the ring during a WrestleMania tournament held at the Trump Plaza casino in Atlantic City.

John Paulson: The hedge fund manager, who is best known for betting against subprime mortgages at the peak of the 2007 credit bubble, is a member of Trump's economic advisory council.
Trump connection: As of May 2016 Trump had $3 million to $15 million invested in Paulson's funds and Trump bought his Miami resort, Doral, from a group that included Paulson in 2011.

Isaac Perlmutter: The reclusive Marvel Entertainment chief executive's wife, Laurie, serves on Trump's inaugural committee.
Trump connection: The Perlmutters initially supported Marco Rubio -- giving $2 million a pro-Rubio super PAC in 2015 -- before coming around to Trump.

Todd Ricketts: The son of billionaire TD Ameritrade founder Joe Ricketts and co-owner of The Chicago Cubs was named Trump's pick for deputy commerce secretary.
Trump connection: The Ricketts family initially opposed Trump -- enraging the candidate -- but eventually donated $1 million to his campaign.

Wilbur Ross: The distressed-asset investor was named Trump's pick for Secretary of Commerce.
Trump connection: Ross helped save Trump's bankrupt Taj Mahal casino in the early 90s as a representative of bondholders and is also Trump's neighbor in both Palm Beach and Manhattan.

Steven Roth: The chairman of real estate investment trust Vornado Realty is a member of Trump's economic advisory council.
Trump connection: Trump and Vornado are partners on two of Trump's most valuable buildings: 1290 Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan and 555 California Street in San Francisco. Vornado owns 70% of each; Trump has the remaining 30%.

Phil Ruffin: The Las Vegas investor owns the Treasure Island Hotel & Casino and serves on Trump's inauguration committee.
Trump connection: Ruffin and Trump are partners in Trump International Hotel Las Vegas, with each owning half. A big Trump backer, Ruffin was an early donor and spoke on behalf of Trump at the GOP convention in July.

Stephen Schwarzman: The chairman and CEO of private equity giant Blackstone, Schwarzman will chair Trump's "President's Strategic and Policy Forum" -- a group of top CEOs which will advise Trump on how government policies will affect the economy.

Peter Thiel:  The PayPal cofounder and first big Facebook investor is an informal advisor to Trump's transition effort.
Trump connection: Thiel -- the only Silicon Valley billionaire to publicly support Trump -- was a delegate for the candidate in California and donated $1.25 million to his campaign in October. He also spoke in favor of Trump at the GOP convention.

Steve Wynn: The casino magnate founded Mirage Resorts and then Wynn Resorts, and is a member of Trump's inauguration committee.
Trump connection: Trump and Wynn feuded throughout much of the 1980s and 1990s as rival Atlantic City resort owners. Now friends, Wynn brokered a meeting in his Manhattan home between Trump and Republican strategist Karl Rove in May 2016 -- but never publicly endorsed Trump, claiming to be undecided as recently as August.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2016, 06:09:03 PM
Rick Perry for Energy Dept. it seems.

He once promised to close it down.

Is the main qualification to lead a government department or agency under Trump complete and utter hostility towards and contempt for the mission of that agency or department?

Was the Walter White spoof that far off the mark?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on December 13, 2016, 11:48:46 PM
https://t.co/c2Dr76wsCA?ssr=true (https://t.co/c2Dr76wsCA?ssr=true)

Anyone following the Standing Rock pipeline protest might be interested in this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2016, 07:05:26 PM
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/government-employees-on-trump-everything-is-fucked-1789095563
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on December 14, 2016, 09:09:05 PM
Donald Trump appoints Willie Frazer as Armagh GAA County Chairman and Cruella DeVille to head RSPCA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2016, 09:36:10 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 14, 2016, 09:09:05 PM
Donald Trump appoints Willie Frazer as Armagh GAA County Chairman and Cruella DeVille to head RSPCA.
The Wolf has been appointed to Agriculture
The Pied Piper of Hamelin is given Education
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on December 15, 2016, 02:37:37 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzqVBXPXcAApu2A.jpg)

In new @YouGovUS poll, Republican voters view Vladimir Putin more favorably than any Democrat leader in the poll.  https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ro9rimrce9/econTabReport.pdf ... (https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ro9rimrce9/econTabReport.pdf%20...)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 15, 2016, 03:48:35 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 14, 2016, 09:09:05 PM
Donald Trump appoints Willie Frazer as Armagh GAA County Chairman and Cruella DeVille to head RSPCA.

Again the man has not spent one minute in office yet, you lefties are absolutely incapable of waiting to see what happens during his tenure, I hope he drops the hammer on the Clinton Foundation and shows than up for what they are, ballbags!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 15, 2016, 03:54:04 PM
Quote from: stew on December 15, 2016, 03:48:35 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 14, 2016, 09:09:05 PM
Donald Trump appoints Willie Frazer as Armagh GAA County Chairman and Cruella DeVille to head RSPCA.

Again the man has not spent one minute in office yet, you lefties are absolutely incapable of waiting to see what happens during his tenure, I hope he drops the hammer on the Clinton Foundation and shows than up for what they are, ballbags!

You aren't interested in 'waiting to see' if there is anything inappropriate about the Clinton Foundation. This after all of the investigation into Hillary's emails have still found nothing.

Meanwhile.......

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/anthony-scaramucci-global-warming-flat-earth-theory (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/anthony-scaramucci-global-warming-flat-earth-theory)

An adviser to President-elect Donald Trump compared the scientific consensus that human beings contribute to global warming to old scientific theories that were proven to be incorrect, including flat earth theory and geocentrism.

"Some of the stuff that you're reading and some of the stuff I'm reading is very ideologically-based about the climate. We don't want it to be that way," he said.

He later added, "I'm saying people have gotten things wrong throughout the 5,500-year history of our planet."


Stew, do you believe the earth is only 5,500 years old?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on December 15, 2016, 07:31:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 15, 2016, 03:54:04 PM
Quote from: stew on December 15, 2016, 03:48:35 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 14, 2016, 09:09:05 PM
Donald Trump appoints Willie Frazer as Armagh GAA County Chairman and Cruella DeVille to head RSPCA.

Again the man has not spent one minute in office yet, you lefties are absolutely incapable of waiting to see what happens during his tenure, I hope he drops the hammer on the Clinton Foundation and shows than up for what they are, ballbags!

You aren't interested in 'waiting to see' if there is anything inappropriate about the Clinton Foundation. This after all of the investigation into Hillary's emails have still found nothing.

Meanwhile.......

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/anthony-scaramucci-global-warming-flat-earth-theory (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/anthony-scaramucci-global-warming-flat-earth-theory)

An adviser to President-elect Donald Trump compared the scientific consensus that human beings contribute to global warming to old scientific theories that were proven to be incorrect, including flat earth theory and geocentrism.

"Some of the stuff that you're reading and some of the stuff I'm reading is very ideologically-based about the climate. We don't want it to be that way," he said.

He later added, "I'm saying people have gotten things wrong throughout the 5,500-year history of our planet."


Stew, do you believe the earth is only 5,500 years old?

What worries much more is that trump is asking for a list of names of climate change scientists to officials at the energy department.

It's pure Mc Carthyism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 16, 2016, 04:04:31 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 15, 2016, 07:31:14 PM

What worries much more is that trump is asking for a list of names of climate change scientists to officials at the energy department.

It's pure Mc Carthyism.

And they've rightly told the Trumpkins to f*** off. The Resistance has started.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 16, 2016, 04:05:48 AM
Quote from: stew on December 15, 2016, 03:48:35 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 14, 2016, 09:09:05 PM
Donald Trump appoints Willie Frazer as Armagh GAA County Chairman and Cruella DeVille to head RSPCA.

Again the man has not spent one minute in office yet, you lefties are absolutely incapable of waiting to see what happens during his tenure, I hope he drops the hammer on the Clinton Foundation and shows than up for what they are, ballbags!

He hasn't taken office yet but he can start appointing his cabinet. That's what he has done and that's what we're judging him by. He's making a complete pig's ear of it. But you conservatives just hate inconvenient facts, so you lash out in the usual way with your name-calling. You're pathetic, the lot of you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 16, 2016, 04:49:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2016, 06:09:03 PM
Rick Perry for Energy Dept. it seems.

He once promised to close it down.

Is the main qualification to lead a government department or agency under Trump complete and utter hostility towards and contempt for the mission of that agency or department?

Was the Walter White spoof that far off the mark?

No need to worry... he couldn't remember he wanted to close it down ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2016, 05:43:51 AM
Trump can't fix the US economy. Andrew Smithers wrote a superb book called "the road to recovery. " and explained what is wrong  .
The US needs lower corporate profits and lower asset values plus a start on reducing the debt load.
The Fed doesn't model the impact of asset bubbles and debt on the economy which is why QE didn't work. Trump's plans will also fail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 17, 2016, 03:00:49 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cz4m3sKWQAEbXDC.jpg)

We can only pray for an  'unpresidented act'....... ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 19, 2016, 08:13:48 AM
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trump_daily_bankruptcy_israel_ambassador_david_friedman
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 20, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
In related news a further nail has been hammered into the coffin of the political career of hilly Clinton, it seems that five people who were to have voted for her pertaining to the electoral college, decided to vote for the  Donald, the bern, Colly turncoat powell and an Indian Chief opposed to the Dakota oil pipeline.

Four from Washington State and one from Maine, the dems are in meltdown and sure isnt it great to see, but the best bit is that the political whore Clintons career is finished, it may get better, she might do time!

This is the biggest defection since the 19th century, couldnt happen to a nicer woman! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wish President elect Trump all the best and I am sure you all do also, he will be the leader of the free world, such as it is after all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
What do you think, stew, of what's going on in North Carolina?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 20, 2016, 01:50:16 PM
Bernie Sanders chats.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP5xavI0d_o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:25:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
In related news a further nail has been hammered into the coffin of the political career of hilly Clinton, it seems that five people who were to have voted for her pertaining to the electoral college, decided to vote for the  Donald, the bern, Colly turncoat powell and an Indian Chief opposed to the Dakota oil pipeline.

Four from Washington State and one from Maine, the dems are in meltdown and sure isnt it great to see, but the best bit is that the political whore Clintons career is finished, it may get better, she might do time!

This is the biggest defection since the 19th century, couldnt happen to a nicer woman! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wish President elect Trump all the best and I am sure you all do also, he will be the leader of the free world, such as it is after all.

Really delighted for you Stew.

You must be over the moon at the hard-line expansionist he is sending to Israel. Palestinians won't be participating in 'the free world', but who cares, eh Stew?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2016, 02:36:50 PM
David Frum on Trump and Israel

To understand why Donald Trump chose David Friedman to be his ambassador to Israel, it's worth reading a story written by the Jewish Telegraphic Agency's Uriel Heilman this April. With the New York Republican primary only days away, a group of Orthodox Jewish activists came to meet Trump at his office. According to Heilman, "One of the first things Trump did when he sat down in the sunny corner conference room at Trump Tower and saw that almost all the 20 or so faces around the room were Orthodox Jews was summon some Orthodox Jews of his own." Turning to his then campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, Trump said, "Maybe I can get Jason Greenblatt down here." Greenblatt, an Orthodox Jew, is Trump's chief legal officer. "And you know who else?" Trump added, "David Cohen." Later, "Trump also talked about his Jewish son-in-law, Jared Kushner."
When Greenblatt arrived, Trump deferred several of the questions to him. He also told the group that his chief Israel advisors would be Greenblatt and David Friedman, a bankruptcy lawyer who has worked for Trump since at least 2001.
inReadNeither Greenblatt nor Friedman is conventionally qualified to advise Trump about Israel. Neither has worked on Middle East policy. Neither has any diplomatic experience. Both have spent time in Israel, and feel strongly about the country. But that's true of many American Jews, especially in the Orthodox community. As Lisa Spies, who did Jewish outreach for Mitt Romney's presidential campaign told Politico, "It's almost degrading to say, just because you're Jewish, you know this. This is degrading to people who actually do this professionally."
Nonetheless, Trump has now named Friedman to be his ambassador to the Jewish state, a position usually held by senior diplomats and policy wonks. In an interview with The New York Times, Trump also suggested that Kushner might help negotiate Israeli-Palestinian peace because "he knows the region, knows the people, knows the players." That's not true. When The New York Times called around, it found that "few of the Israelis and Palestinians who have been immersed for years in the fitful and frustrating peace process, such as it is, could recall ever meeting Mr. Kushner."
What is Trump doing? The best explanation is that he's evaluating people based less on their actual policy background or knowledge than on whether they look like the kinds of people who would have the relevant background or knowledge.
First, Trump himself lacks the policy knowledge to appreciate the difference between someone like Friedman and someone with a deep background on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. During the campaign, after all, he couldn't name the leaders of ISIS, Al Qaeda, or Hezbollah; didn't know what the nuclear triad was; and seemed unfamiliar with the term "Brexit" just weeks before Britons went to the polls.
Second, Trump's thinking is often shaped by stereotypes. In a speech to the Republican Jewish Coalition last December, he told the crowd that, "I'm a negotiator, like you folks" and repeatedly declared that he wouldn't win the RJC's support because "I don't want your money." In 1991, he allegedly said that, "The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day."
If Jews know about money and negotiation, they presumably also know about Israel. As Business Insider noted in October, Trump frequently refers to groups as collectives: "The blacks," "the Hispanics," "the Muslims, "the gays." So if the Jews care about Israel, choose a Jew as ambassador. Problem solved.
Finally, Trump cares a lot about appearances. According to The New York Times, he said Mike Pence looked like a vice president out of "central casting." When a crowd urged him to consider former Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown for the job, Trump made the same comment about him. He reportedly used the same phrase to describe Mitt Romney as secretary of state. Earlier this month, Trump told a rally that his nominee for secretary of defense, James Mattis, is "the closest thing to General George Patton that we have." Given that Trump, by his own admission, rarely reads books, he likely formed his image of Patton by watching the 1970 movie starring George C. Scott. (It's among his favorite films.) What Trump was really telling the crowd, in other words, is that a guy with the nickname "Mad Dog" (Trump invokes Mattis's nickname frequently) looks the part of a tough-guy general, just as David Friedman looks the part of an ambassador to Israel.
I'm not suggesting that this logic explains all of Trump's picks, some of whom—like Mattis and Transportation Secretary-designate Elaine Chao—are qualified for their jobs. But it does help explain some of odder ones. For instance, Trump's nominee for Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Ben Carson, according to his own top advisor, Armstrong Williams, "feels he has no government experience, he's never run a federal agency." Carson also has no background in housing policy or urban affairs. Carson is, however, black. (Trump has a penchant for discussing urban policy with African Americans who have no expertise on the subject. He took former Apprentice contestant Omarosa Manigault with him on a tour of inner city Detroit this fall. Last week, he held a meeting on inner-city violence with former NFL stars Jim Brown and Ray Lewis.) Then there's Trump's pick for ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, who has never served in any diplomatic position or shown any particular interest in international affairs, but who is of Indian descent.
Perhaps some of these nominees will be confirmed, and excel in office, despite lacking the usual experience or credentials; certainly, some cabinet secretaries who seemed eminently well-qualified for their jobs have failed in the past. But there's no question that these picks represent a sharp departure.
Republicans have long prided themselves on seeing people as individuals rather than members of ethnic, racial, or gender groups. But because Donald Trump doesn't know or care what his appointees don't know, because he trades in stereotypes, and because he's highly attuned to the way people look, he appears to be practicing the most blatant tokenism of any president in my lifetime. And few Republicans seem bothered at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 20, 2016, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:25:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
In related news a further nail has been hammered into the coffin of the political career of hilly Clinton, it seems that five people who were to have voted for her pertaining to the electoral college, decided to vote for the  Donald, the bern, Colly turncoat powell and an Indian Chief opposed to the Dakota oil pipeline.

Four from Washington State and one from Maine, the dems are in meltdown and sure isnt it great to see, but the best bit is that the political whore Clintons career is finished, it may get better, she might do time!

This is the biggest defection since the 19th century, couldnt happen to a nicer woman! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wish President elect Trump all the best and I am sure you all do also, he will be the leader of the free world, such as it is after all.

Really delighted for you Stew.

You must be over the moon at the hard-line expansionist he is sending to Israel. Palestinians won't be participating in 'the free world', but who cares, eh Stew?

I am delighted that a scumbags political career is over, not once did I mention the Palestinians, you brought them,I,to the equation, not me, by the way, how did those poor people dare under Obama and Clinton over the past two terms???

Don't put words in my mouth!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:25:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
In related news a further nail has been hammered into the coffin of the political career of hilly Clinton, it seems that five people who were to have voted for her pertaining to the electoral college, decided to vote for the  Donald, the bern, Colly turncoat powell and an Indian Chief opposed to the Dakota oil pipeline.

Four from Washington State and one from Maine, the dems are in meltdown and sure isnt it great to see, but the best bit is that the political whore Clintons career is finished, it may get better, she might do time!

This is the biggest defection since the 19th century, couldnt happen to a nicer woman! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wish President elect Trump all the best and I am sure you all do also, he will be the leader of the free world, such as it is after all.

Really delighted for you Stew.

You must be over the moon at the hard-line expansionist he is sending to Israel. Palestinians won't be participating in 'the free world', but who cares, eh Stew?

I am delighted that a scumbags political career is over, not once did I mention the Palestinians, you brought them,I,to the equation, not me, by the way, how did those poor people dare under Obama and Clinton over the past two terms???

Don't put words in my mouth!

Your are delighted about Trump. Trump is taking a hard-line view on Israel. God help the Palestinians. You voted for this. Congrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 20, 2016, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:25:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
In related news a further nail has been hammered into the coffin of the political career of hilly Clinton, it seems that five people who were to have voted for her pertaining to the electoral college, decided to vote for the  Donald, the bern, Colly turncoat powell and an Indian Chief opposed to the Dakota oil pipeline.

Four from Washington State and one from Maine, the dems are in meltdown and sure isnt it great to see, but the best bit is that the political whore Clintons career is finished, it may get better, she might do time!

This is the biggest defection since the 19th century, couldnt happen to a nicer woman! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wish President elect Trump all the best and I am sure you all do also, he will be the leader of the free world, such as it is after all.

Really delighted for you Stew.

You must be over the moon at the hard-line expansionist he is sending to Israel. Palestinians won't be participating in 'the free world', but who cares, eh Stew?

I am delighted that a scumbags political career is over, not once did I mention the Palestinians, you brought them,I,to the equation, not me, by the way, how did those poor people dare under Obama and Clinton over the past two terms???

Don't put words in my mouth!

Your are delighted about Trump. Trump is taking a hard-line view on Israel. God help the Palestinians. You voted for this. Congrats.

Listen dick I never voted for anybody and I am not delighted for Trump, I am delighted that liberal odious piece of crap Clinton lost.

Again I never mentioned the Palestinians, I am appalled at what they are going through so don't f**king put words in my mouth!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2016, 10:44:05 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:25:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
In related news a further nail has been hammered into the coffin of the political career of hilly Clinton, it seems that five people who were to have voted for her pertaining to the electoral college, decided to vote for the  Donald, the bern, Colly turncoat powell and an Indian Chief opposed to the Dakota oil pipeline.

Four from Washington State and one from Maine, the dems are in meltdown and sure isnt it great to see, but the best bit is that the political whore Clintons career is finished, it may get better, she might do time!

This is the biggest defection since the 19th century, couldnt happen to a nicer woman! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wish President elect Trump all the best and I am sure you all do also, he will be the leader of the free world, such as it is after all.

Really delighted for you Stew.

You must be over the moon at the hard-line expansionist he is sending to Israel. Palestinians won't be participating in 'the free world', but who cares, eh Stew?

I am delighted that a scumbags political career is over, not once did I mention the Palestinians, you brought them,I,to the equation, not me, by the way, how did those poor people dare under Obama and Clinton over the past two terms???

Don't put words in my mouth!

Your are delighted about Trump. Trump is taking a hard-line view on Israel. God help the Palestinians. You voted for this. Congrats.

Listen dick I never voted for anybody and I am not delighted for Trump, I am delighted that liberal odious piece of crap Clinton lost.

Again I never mentioned the Palestinians, I am appalled at what they are going through so don't f**king put words in my mouth!

You cheered Trump all the way before and after the election. All because of your blind hatred of Hillary. People like you put Trump in and Palestinians will suffer accordingly. Using your own words 'Man Up' and at least have the balls to take responsibility for your ranting  during the election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 20, 2016, 11:37:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 10:44:05 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:25:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
In related news a further nail has been hammered into the coffin of the political career of hilly Clinton, it seems that five people who were to have voted for her pertaining to the electoral college, decided to vote for the  Donald, the bern, Colly turncoat powell and an Indian Chief opposed to the Dakota oil pipeline.

Four from Washington State and one from Maine, the dems are in meltdown and sure isnt it great to see, but the best bit is that the political whore Clintons career is finished, it may get better, she might do time!

This is the biggest defection since the 19th century, couldnt happen to a nicer woman! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wish President elect Trump all the best and I am sure you all do also, he will be the leader of the free world, such as it is after all.

Really delighted for you Stew.

You must be over the moon at the hard-line expansionist he is sending to Israel. Palestinians won't be participating in 'the free world', but who cares, eh Stew?

I am delighted that a scumbags political career is over, not once did I mention the Palestinians, you brought them,I,to the equation, not me, by the way, how did those poor people dare under Obama and Clinton over the past two terms???

Don't put words in my mouth!

Your are delighted about Trump. Trump is taking a hard-line view on Israel. God help the Palestinians. You voted for this. Congrats.

Listen dick I never voted for anybody and I am not delighted for Trump, I am delighted that liberal odious piece of crap Clinton lost.

Again I never mentioned the Palestinians, I am appalled at what they are going through so don't f**king put words in my mouth!

You cheered Trump all the way before and after the election. All because of your blind hatred of Hillary. People like you put Trump in and Palestinians will suffer accordingly. Using your own words 'Man Up' and at least have the balls to take responsibility for your ranting  during the election.

Are you backward? You pick one piece of subject matter and start hammering away, I wanted neither  of them to win but most assuredly wanted Clinton to lose, wget did she ever do for the palestinians you hypocrite horror show!

I never supported Trump but like all Presidents I wish him all the best when they get elected, just like I did Obama, you sad fucks seen to want him to fail, that's how pathetic you liberals are.

I said all along Trump was a liberal, that's were he spent his donation money and that's what he said he was in 2010.

You have serious comprehension issues Muppet!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2016, 11:50:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 11:37:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 10:44:05 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:25:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
In related news a further nail has been hammered into the coffin of the political career of hilly Clinton, it seems that five people who were to have voted for her pertaining to the electoral college, decided to vote for the  Donald, the bern, Colly turncoat powell and an Indian Chief opposed to the Dakota oil pipeline.

Four from Washington State and one from Maine, the dems are in meltdown and sure isnt it great to see, but the best bit is that the political whore Clintons career is finished, it may get better, she might do time!

This is the biggest defection since the 19th century, couldnt happen to a nicer woman! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wish President elect Trump all the best and I am sure you all do also, he will be the leader of the free world, such as it is after all.

Really delighted for you Stew.

You must be over the moon at the hard-line expansionist he is sending to Israel. Palestinians won't be participating in 'the free world', but who cares, eh Stew?

I am delighted that a scumbags political career is over, not once did I mention the Palestinians, you brought them,I,to the equation, not me, by the way, how did those poor people dare under Obama and Clinton over the past two terms???

Don't put words in my mouth!

Your are delighted about Trump. Trump is taking a hard-line view on Israel. God help the Palestinians. You voted for this. Congrats.

Listen dick I never voted for anybody and I am not delighted for Trump, I am delighted that liberal odious piece of crap Clinton lost.

Again I never mentioned the Palestinians, I am appalled at what they are going through so don't f**king put words in my mouth!

You cheered Trump all the way before and after the election. All because of your blind hatred of Hillary. People like you put Trump in and Palestinians will suffer accordingly. Using your own words 'Man Up' and at least have the balls to take responsibility for your ranting  during the election.

Are you backward? You pick one piece of subject matter and start hammering away, I wanted neither  of them to win but most assuredly wanted Clinton to lose, wget did she ever do for the palestinians you hypocrite horror show!

I never supported Trump but like all Presidents I wish him all the best when they get elected, just like I did Obama, you sad f**ks seen to want him to fail, that's how pathetic you liberals are.

I said all along Trump was a liberal, that's were he spent his donation money and that's what he said he was in 2010.

You have serious comprehension issues Muppet!

Trump has appointed a hardline Israeli supporter as his ambassador, and still you are attacking Hillary. Even after the election. Hillary is over, your hero Trump is the reality now.

Man up and admit you got what you wanted ffs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 21, 2016, 12:06:03 AM
He's not even in the WH yet and he's already failing!!

A cabinet full of billionaires, zionists and climate change deniers . . . That's before you even mention China or the 'great deal' he gave Carrier which will encourage other companies to get incentives for shipping out jobs and keeping a fraction of the workforce in the US!

But he speaks his mind so he's OK in my book. (Even though he's admitted numerous times he blatantly lied during the campaign)

"Ordinary Americans" will regret the choice they made in November, but as long as 'she' didn't get in it's OK!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2016, 12:06:03 AM
He's not even in the WH yet and he's already failing!!

A cabinet full of billionaires, zionists and climate change deniers . . . That's before you even mention China or the 'great deal' he gave Carrier which will encourage other companies to get incentives for shipping out jobs and keeping a fraction of the workforce in the US!

But he speaks his mind so he's OK in my book. (Even though he's admitted numerous times he blatantly lied during the campaign)

"Ordinary Americans" will regret the choice they made in November, but as long as 'she' didn't get in it's OK!

That's it exactly.

But now they are running for cover, pretending they didn't want Trump.

Man up bitches.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 21, 2016, 12:29:26 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2016, 12:06:03 AM
(Even though he's admitted numerous times he blatantly lied during the campaign)

He didn't lie. You just weren't meant to take him literally.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 02:09:13 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 11:50:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 11:37:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 10:44:05 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:25:47 PM
Quote from: stew on December 20, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
In related news a further nail has been hammered into the coffin of the political career of hilly Clinton, it seems that five people who were to have voted for her pertaining to the electoral college, decided to vote for the  Donald, the bern, Colly turncoat powell and an Indian Chief opposed to the Dakota oil pipeline.

Four from Washington State and one from Maine, the dems are in meltdown and sure isnt it great to see, but the best bit is that the political whore Clintons career is finished, it may get better, she might do time!

This is the biggest defection since the 19th century, couldnt happen to a nicer woman! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wish President elect Trump all the best and I am sure you all do also, he will be the leader of the free world, such as it is after all.

Really delighted for you Stew.

You must be over the moon at the hard-line expansionist he is sending to Israel. Palestinians won't be participating in 'the free world', but who cares, eh Stew?

I am delighted that a scumbags political career is over, not once did I mention the Palestinians, you brought them,I,to the equation, not me, by the way, how did those poor people dare under Obama and Clinton over the past two terms???

Don't put words in my mouth!

Your are delighted about Trump. Trump is taking a hard-line view on Israel. God help the Palestinians. You voted for this. Congrats.

Listen dick I never voted for anybody and I am not delighted for Trump, I am delighted that liberal odious piece of crap Clinton lost.

Again I never mentioned the Palestinians, I am appalled at what they are going through so don't f**king put words in my mouth!

You cheered Trump all the way before and after the election. All because of your blind hatred of Hillary. People like you put Trump in and Palestinians will suffer accordingly. Using your own words 'Man Up' and at least have the balls to take responsibility for your ranting  during the election.

Are you backward? You pick one piece of subject matter and start hammering away, I wanted neither  of them to win but most assuredly wanted Clinton to lose, wget did she ever do for the palestinians you hypocrite horror show!

I never supported Trump but like all Presidents I wish him all the best when they get elected, just like I did Obama, you sad f**ks seen to want him to fail, that's how pathetic you liberals are.

I said all along Trump was a liberal, that's were he spent his donation money and that's what he said he was in 2010.

You have serious comprehension issues Muppet!

Trump has appointed a hardline Israeli supporter as his ambassador, and still you are attacking Hillary. Even after the election. Hillary is over, your hero Trump is the reality now.

Man up and admit you got what you wanted ffs.

I never cheered Trump all the way, get your facts straight for once Muppet.

I did get what I wanted in the sense the political whore you wanted elected got hammered.

You are a disgrace on this thread Muppet, not once have you mentioned that I would have taken Bernie over either of those two hoors!

I am no Trump fan, I hated Clinton as you say and with good reason Muppet but you are a liar when you make me out to be a trump supporter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 21, 2016, 05:20:18 AM
Stew.. you did not support Trump but you vehemently roared against people supporting Clinton. That effectively meant you helped support Trump's election, so do not hide behind your timorous neutrality for the election of the "liberal"of your preference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: guy crouchback on December 21, 2016, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: omochain on December 21, 2016, 05:20:18 AM
Stew.. you did not support Trump but you vehemently roared against people supporting Clinton. That effectively meant you helped support Trump's election, so do not hide behind your timorous neutrality for the election of the "liberal"of your preference.

i dont know if thats fair, I'm certainly no supporter of most of stews views but he is entitled to take a ''a curse on all your houses'' position even if he curses one house more then the other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 11:48:35 AM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 02:09:13 AM
Bernie was irrelevant after the primaries. And of course your love of Bernie was probably similar to your love of Obama during the 2008 Primaries.

The election was a two horse race and you wanted one arrested, humiliated, jailed etc, etc ,etc. You posted rant after rant attacking her, some pretty shocking hidious stuff. Even now you still call her a whore. Whitey suggested she might a lesbian.

You won.

Now man up and accept that your man is in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 11:49:44 AM
Quote from: omochain on December 21, 2016, 05:20:18 AM
Stew.. you did not support Trump but you vehemently roared against people supporting Clinton. That effectively meant you helped support Trump's election, so do not hide behind your timorous neutrality for the election of the "liberal"of your preference.

You are partially right, I did roar against Clinton supporters because of who she is, I hated her with a passion, even so, before the email scandal I posted that although I hated to say it if I had to vote for one of the two I would have voted for Clinton, that is a fact!

Of course that changed, the email scandal and the subsequent throwing under the bus of everyone but herself got my disgust juices flowing again, I said on many posts that Bernie would get my vote as he was the only decent human being running, Muppet is either lying or being immature on my role on this thread, Clinton was a war mongering, lying, stealing failed career politician that was all out for herself, she had to go and unfortunately Trump was the man to beat her, I am delighted she lost but take no pleasure in Trump winning, a lot of people feel that way, that said, if I had a choice I stand by my anti Clinton stance and I am delighted she lost.

Question for the liberals. When elected president is there any of you want Trump to do well as potus?

To my dying day I will never get how people stood by Clinton after the rigged action, or for that mafter why BS took it up the arse and did not call foul on a rotten, rigged DNC convention.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2016, 12:06:03 AM
He's not even in the WH yet and he's already failing!!

A cabinet full of billionaires, zionists and climate change deniers . . . That's before you even mention China or the 'great deal' he gave Carrier which will encourage other companies to get incentives for shipping out jobs and keeping a fraction of the workforce in the US!

But he speaks his mind so he's OK in my book. (Even though he's admitted numerous times he blatantly lied during the campaign)

"Ordinary Americans" will regret the choice they made in November, but as long as 'she' didn't get in it's OK!

That's it exactly.

But now they are running for cover, pretending they didn't want Trump.

Man up bitches.  :D

I am not running for cover, I am delighted Trump kicked her around the country like a football, I am delighted she is a footnote in history even if it means Trump got in, is that clear enough for you? is that manning up enough for you Muppet?

Anybody but Killory, any single Republican that ran would have done me, the libertarian Johnson or the Green Party rep, she would have been fine, any democrat running against her would have done
me as long as she was finished!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 11:49:44 AM
Quote from: omochain on December 21, 2016, 05:20:18 AM
Stew.. you did not support Trump but you vehemently roared against people supporting Clinton. That effectively meant you helped support Trump's election, so do not hide behind your timorous neutrality for the election of the "liberal"of your preference.

You are partially right, I did roar against Clinton supporters because of who she is, I hated her with a passion, even so, before the email scandal I posted that although I hated to say it if I had to vote for one of the two I would have voted for Clinton, that is a fact!

Of course that changed, the email scandal and the subsequent throwing under the bus of everyone but herself got my disgust juices flowing again, I said on many posts that Bernie would get my vote as he was the only decent human being running, Muppet is either lying or being immature on my role on this thread, Clinton was a war mongering, lying, stealing failed career politician that was all out for herself, she had to go and unfortunately Trump was the man to beat her, I am delighted she lost but take no pleasure in Trump winning, a lot of people feel that way, that said, if I had a choice I stand by my anti Clinton stance and I am delighted she lost.

Question for the liberals. When elected president is there any of you want Trump to do well as potus?

To my dying day I will never get how people stood by Clinton after the rigged action, or for that mafter why BS took it up the arse and did not call foul on a rotten, rigged DNC convention.

Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on December 21, 2016, 01:25:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.

I think it tells you all you need to know about politics in the US when the best candidates the Democrats and GOP could come up with was those two dickheads..

A country always gets the Government it deserves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on December 21, 2016, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

It's impossible to tell (not just because there is no basis to judge it on) when Trump won the Electoral College vote while Clinton won the popular vote.
At this stage post Vote the only people to blame, if there is blame are the electorate, taking the system was always the system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:29:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 11:49:44 AM
Quote from: omochain on December 21, 2016, 05:20:18 AM
Stew.. you did not support Trump but you vehemently roared against people supporting Clinton. That effectively meant you helped support Trump's election, so do not hide behind your timorous neutrality for the election of the "liberal"of your preference.

You are partially right, I did roar against Clinton supporters because of who she is, I hated her with a passion, even so, before the email scandal I posted that although I hated to say it if I had to vote for one of the two I would have voted for Clinton, that is a fact!

Of course that changed, the email scandal and the subsequent throwing under the bus of everyone but herself got my disgust juices flowing again, I said on many posts that Bernie would get my vote as he was the only decent human being running, Muppet is either lying or being immature on my role on this thread, Clinton was a war mongering, lying, stealing failed career politician that was all out for herself, she had to go and unfortunately Trump was the man to beat her, I am delighted she lost but take no pleasure in Trump winning, a lot of people feel that way, that said, if I had a choice I stand by my anti Clinton stance and I am delighted she lost.

Question for the liberals. When elected president is there any of you want Trump to do well as potus?

To my dying day I will never get how people stood by Clinton after the rigged action, or for that mafter why BS took it up the arse and did not call foul on a rotten, rigged DNC convention.

Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

Trump never was nor never will be 'my man'

You have to be smarter than this Muppet, I always thought you were, now you are coming across as a bit dull on it.

Show me were I supported Trump?

You deny what is written, ignore what is written because you are upset with me because I wanted Clinton to lose, f**k Clinton, I loathed everything she stood for and was very vocal about that, this does not make Trump my man no matter how hard you try and make him out to be, I am beginning to feel sorry for you Muppet, man up, your bitch lost now suck it up and move on.

Finally, do you hope Trump does ell as President muppet?

Even I had the good grace to wish Obama well even though I felt he would be one of the weakest presidents ever, can you say the same pertaining to a President Trump?

Uncomfortable question I know but I think I already know the answer!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 11:49:44 AM
Quote from: omochain on December 21, 2016, 05:20:18 AM
Stew.. you did not support Trump but you vehemently roared against people supporting Clinton. That effectively meant you helped support Trump's election, so do not hide behind your timorous neutrality for the election of the "liberal"of your preference.

You are partially right, I did roar against Clinton supporters because of who she is, I hated her with a passion, even so, before the email scandal I posted that although I hated to say it if I had to vote for one of the two I would have voted for Clinton, that is a fact!

Of course that changed, the email scandal and the subsequent throwing under the bus of everyone but herself got my disgust juices flowing again, I said on many posts that Bernie would get my vote as he was the only decent human being running, Muppet is either lying or being immature on my role on this thread, Clinton was a war mongering, lying, stealing failed career politician that was all out for herself, she had to go and unfortunately Trump was the man to beat her, I am delighted she lost but take no pleasure in Trump winning, a lot of people feel that way, that said, if I had a choice I stand by my anti Clinton stance and I am delighted she lost.

Question for the liberals. When elected president is there any of you want Trump to do well as potus?

To my dying day I will never get how people stood by Clinton after the rigged action, or for that mafter why BS took it up the arse and did not call foul on a rotten, rigged DNC convention.

You will have to define "do well as potus".

I "stood by Clinton" due to the appalling alternative, which, we're finding out, is as scary in reality as it was in theory.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:41:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.

Hillary has a few atrocities unsee her belt, war mongering bitch that she is.

So not dare to take the moral high ground Muppet as you have none!

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, you are paranoid, you see into the future, a seer no less, you see atrocities were none exist, I will say this, Obama is and was an idiot in the way he handled the radical muslims, if squad my hole, Trump will get after them with a vengeance and I support that as long as he is protecting the citizenry.

Obama is indifferent to the plight of the people of Syria, he could not have effed up that situation more, someone is going to have to clean his mess up.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 01:42:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

Would Bernie have been a certainty to beat Trump?

You don't think Fox News and the right wing media would have went to town on him, painting him as a communist extremist? That every statement he ever made and every position he ever espoused would have been slanted and misrepresented to build him up into this boogieman who was going to tax the country to death?

Same with Biden. He's run a few times before, and got nowhere, one time being derailed due to plagiarizing Neil Kinnock.

You don't think the Russians and Wikileaks would have worked just as diligently to derail THEIR campaigns in favour of Trump.

Neither of those boys were put through the ringer a general election campaign brings. Sure, on the surface they didn't have Clinton's trust issues, and the attack machine failed, twice, against Obama (not Kerry though), but Obama was an extraordinary candidate.

I'm not saying they wouldn't have won or couldn't have done better than Clinton, but I think its impossible to say with any certainty what would have happened.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:56:28 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on December 21, 2016, 01:25:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.

I think it tells you all you need to know about politics in the US when the best candidates the Democrats and GOP could come up with was those two d**kheads..

A country always gets the Government it deserves.

I agree with that last line 100 percent.9
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Seriously, you can say that with a straight face in the light of what Trump is currently assembling?

In the light of what the GOP is doing in North Carolina?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 11:49:44 AM
Quote from: omochain on December 21, 2016, 05:20:18 AM
Stew.. you did not support Trump but you vehemently roared against people supporting Clinton. That effectively meant you helped support Trump's election, so do not hide behind your timorous neutrality for the election of the "liberal"of your preference.

You are partially right, I did roar against Clinton supporters because of who she is, I hated her with a passion, even so, before the email scandal I posted that although I hated to say it if I had to vote for one of the two I would have voted for Clinton, that is a fact!

Of course that changed, the email scandal and the subsequent throwing under the bus of everyone but herself got my disgust juices flowing again, I said on many posts that Bernie would get my vote as he was the only decent human being running, Muppet is either lying or being immature on my role on this thread, Clinton was a war mongering, lying, stealing failed career politician that was all out for herself, she had to go and unfortunately Trump was the man to beat her, I am delighted she lost but take no pleasure in Trump winning, a lot of people feel that way, that said, if I had a choice I stand by my anti Clinton stance and I am delighted she lost.

Question for the liberals. When elected president is there any of you want Trump to do well as potus?

To my dying day I will never get how people stood by Clinton after the rigged action, or for that mafter why BS took it up the arse and did not call foul on a rotten, rigged DNC convention.

You will have to define "do well as potus".

I "stood by Clinton" due to the appalling alternative, which, we're finding out, is as scary in reality as it was in theory.

Do you hope Donald Trump does well as President Of The United States.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 02:00:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Seriously, you can say that with a straight face in the light of what Trump is currently assembling?

In the light of what the GOP is doing in North Carolina?

The man has not made a single executive decision yet, patience man dear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2016, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.

Can you translate those comments....I haven't a clue what you're on about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 21, 2016, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.


I love this. . . the Turkeys voted against Christmas and now they're about to get slaughtered they're OK with it!!!!

Also why would anyone not want a President to do well? It's in everyone's interest for Trump to do well for the world but the impression I and everyone else is getting is that it's the Trump show and to hell with everyone else!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 02:05:05 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 02:00:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Seriously, you can say that with a straight face in the light of what Trump is currently assembling?

In the light of what the GOP is doing in North Carolina?

The man has not made a single executive decision yet, patience man dear.

You've no opinion on his appointments then and what and who they represent with respect to the jobs they'll be assigned?

No opinion on the corrupt power grab in NC?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2016, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.


I love this. . . the Turkeys voted against Christmas and now they're about to get slaughtered they're OK with it!!!!

Also why would anyone not want a President to do well? It's in everyone's interest for Trump to do well for the world but the impression I and everyone else is getting is that it's the Trump show and to hell with everyone else!!

The people voted against everything I said on my prior post, just for fun, what would you have called the electorate if the democrats had won?

Get over it, people voting against Clinton are not turkeys, it does not make you dumb to support ANY candidate, even Clinton, it makes you part of the Democratic process, that's it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Is this aimed at me? My party? Or are you confusing me with muppet?

I think both candidates were c***ts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:21:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.

Can you translate those comments....I haven't a clue what you're on about

You're blaming Hillary and co for Trump and you will continue to do so no matter what Trump does.

If he invades Mexico = Hillary's fault
If he starts WW3 = Hillary's fault
If he built a 10,000 foot high gold bath for himself = Hillary's fault.

Trump can't lose. Anything he does will be Hillary's fault.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:25:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Is this aimed at me? My party? Or are you confusing me with muppet?

I think both candidates were c***ts.

So do I.

But one was a mediocre one, the other..............God help us all.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 02:32:50 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/i-was-a-victim-of-a-russian-smear-campaign-i-understand-the-power-of-fake-news/2016/12/20/0dfdc2aa-c606-11e6-8bee-54e800ef2a63_story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 02:35:14 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/12/trump-foreign-policy/511058/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:48:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:25:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Is this aimed at me? My party? Or are you confusing me with muppet?

I think both candidates were c***ts.

So do I.

But one was a mediocre one, the other..............God help us all.

I know you do, but I've never really engaged on this topic, so I was wondering why I was getting a broadside. I was thinking stew thought my post was from you. The Democrats are hardly 'my' party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 21, 2016, 02:51:29 PM
MTV certainly doing their best to help the Trump 2020 campaign. They had to pull this down 24 hours later due to the offence it caused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuOGf1iuLEA



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Is this aimed at me? My party? Or are you confusing me with muppet?

I think both candidates were c***ts.

And you would be correct in thinking so, we all, well most if us said that which is why I am confused as to why I am being labelled Trumps man.

In short is ok for the left to vote for their perceived lesser of two evils but not for me to have the same right, it is ok for them to despair of the Republican nominated candidate but not for me to deride their failed champion, I get it now!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 03:15:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:25:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Is this aimed at me? My party? Or are you confusing me with muppet?

I think both candidates were c***ts.

So do I.

But one was a mediocre one, the other..............God help us all.

One was a proven liar who has had people killed and used the power of office to line her pockets, a woman who admittedly HATES the middle class and one who should be in prison, don't soft soap AZ, Clinton was a horrendous candidate as was Trump, no more, no less, shame on both parties for the cluster bleep we are experiencing now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 03:19:25 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 03:15:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:25:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Is this aimed at me? My party? Or are you confusing me with muppet?

I think both candidates were c***ts.

So do I.

But one was a mediocre one, the other..............God help us all.

One was a proven liar who has had people killed and used the power of office to line her pockets, a woman who admittedly HATES the middle class and one who should be in prison, don't soft soap AZ, Clinton was a horrendous candidate as was Trump, no more, no less, shame on both parties for the cluster bleep we are experiencing now.

1. Trump is a proven liar.
2. What people has Hillary HAD KILLED? (you're always spreading this shite and disappearing when questioned on it).
3. Trump had, by his own admission, repeatedly used his wealth to buy political power and favours. He is just as much a participant in the corruption you claim to abhor.
4. Where and when did Hillary admit to HATING the middle class?
5. On what basis should she be in prison?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2016, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:21:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.

Can you translate those comments....I haven't a clue what you're on about

You're blaming Hillary and co for Trump and you will continue to do so no matter what Trump does.

If he invades Mexico = Hillary's fault
If he starts WW3 = Hillary's fault
If he built a 10,000 foot high gold bath forere  himself = Hillary's fault.

Trump can't lose. Anything he does will be Hillary's fault.

I'm blaming Hillary and co for creating the dynamics where Trump was able to win the election despite being the most unqualified candidate to ever run for office.  Whatever he says or does is on him...no one else
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:21:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.

Can you translate those comments....I haven't a clue what you're on about

You're blaming Hillary and co for Trump and you will continue to do so no matter what Trump does.

If he invades Mexico = Hillary's fault
If he starts WW3 = Hillary's fault
If he built a 10,000 foot high gold bath forere  himself = Hillary's fault.

Trump can't lose. Anything he does will be Hillary's fault.

I'm blaming Hillary and co for creating the dynamics where Trump was able to win the election despite being the most unqualified candidate to ever run for office. Whatever he says or does is on him...no one else

It is Hilllary's fault Trump got elected (despite him defeating 16 Republican candidates)?

But I agree what he does from here on is on him.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Is this aimed at me? My party? Or are you confusing me with muppet?

I think both candidates were c***ts.

And you would be correct in thinking so, we all, well most if us said that which is why I am confused as to why I am being labelled Trumps man.

In short is ok for the left to vote for their perceived lesser of two evils but not for me to have the same right, it is ok for them to despair of the Republican nominated candidate but not for me to deride their failed champion, I get it now!

You are trapped in your own hypocrisy.

You whinge about somehow being denied the right to vote for the lesser of two evils (as you see it), but then when things start to look dangerous, you don't admit even to supporting him, never mind voting for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2016, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:21:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.

Can you translate those comments....I haven't a clue what you're on about

You're blaming Hillary and co for Trump and you will continue to do so no matter what Trump does.

If he invades Mexico = Hillary's fault
If he starts WW3 = Hillary's fault
If he built a 10,000 foot high gold bath forere  himself = Hillary's fault.

Trump can't lose. Anything he does will be Hillary's fault.

I'm blaming Hillary and co for creating the dynamics where Trump was able to win the election despite being the most unqualified candidate to ever run for office. Whatever he says or does is on him...no one else

It is Hilllary's fault Trump got elected (despite him defeating 16 Republican candidates)?

But I agree what he does from here on is on him.

Hillarys campsign colluded with the main stream media to promote "pied piper" candidates. Trump got $3.5 B in free airtime under that little scheme....that certainly helped him knock off many of the Republican challengers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:39:37 PM
Exactly.

You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Republican primaries.
You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Presidential election.

We'll just have to wait and see if you really stop blaming her for what Trump does in office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 04:46:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 03:15:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:25:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Is this aimed at me? My party? Or are you confusing me with muppet?

I think both candidates were c***ts.

So do I.

But one was a mediocre one, the other..............God help us all.

One was a proven liar who has had people killed and used the power of office to line her pockets, a woman who admittedly HATES the middle class and one who should be in prison, don't soft soap AZ, Clinton was a horrendous candidate as was Trump, no more, no less, shame on both parties for the cluster bleep we are experiencing now.

Stew, that's not me you are replying to!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:49:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 04:46:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 03:15:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:25:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM
Your man won.

You are asking if we want Trump to do well? You are completely missing the point. I don't give a damn about Trump or Clinton. I want the world to do well. But it won't. Certainly not under this complete narcissist. The Palestinians will be the first evidence of this I'm convinced.

As for hating Clinton before the email scandal, you hated her long before Bernie was even relevant.

Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D

Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D

But how will history judge President McCain? Great chips mind you.

I was wrong, ever been wrong before boy???

You have no room to gloat, your party got fucked, rejected with prejudice by the people, see the people rejected cronyism, corruption and self interest, in short they rejected the Democrat party.

Is this aimed at me? My party? Or are you confusing me with muppet?

I think both candidates were c***ts.

So do I.

But one was a mediocre one, the other..............God help us all.

One was a proven liar who has had people killed and used the power of office to line her pockets, a woman who admittedly HATES the middle class and one who should be in prison, don't soft soap AZ, Clinton was a horrendous candidate as was Trump, no more, no less, shame on both parties for the cluster bleep we are experiencing now.

Stew, that's not me you are replying to!!

Yes it is you libtard, cheese-eating surrender monkey, ass hat (I still don't know what that is).  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 04:54:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:21:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 12:28:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Couldn't have said it better myself

So this is where it is at?

It Hillary's fault we elected Trump. And it will be Hillary's fault when he bring us back a few decades.


Is there a term for this type of collective madness?

Joe Biden would have beaten Trump by about 20 points

Bernie would have beaten him by a similar margin

The Democratic Hierarchy rigged with their own primary and forced Hillary onto the ticket....they and their he main stream media are to blame

Exactly. You, Stew and the rest will blame them for Trump's atrocities.

Can you translate those comments....I haven't a clue what you're on about

You're blaming Hillary and co for Trump and you will continue to do so no matter what Trump does.

If he invades Mexico = Hillary's fault
If he starts WW3 = Hillary's fault
If he built a 10,000 foot high gold bath for himself = Hillary's fault.

Trump can't lose. Anything he does will be Hillary's fault.



That is immature bullshit muppet.

She was never President, every President leaves a mess for the incoming President, Trump will have to deal with the worst financial mess since 1929, he will have to deal with the JV squad Obama ignored, hmmm, let's see, the illegal immigrant situation, the fact that cops are not protcted under Obama's watch, I could go on but sure he was just as screwed by W.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 04:59:53 PM
How are cops "not protected under Obama's watch"?

Are you saying that things are worse financially NOW than they were when Obama took over?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 05:10:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 04:59:53 PM
How are cops "not protected under Obama's watch"?

Are you saying that things are worse financially NOW than they were when Obama took over?

I am saying Obama receives the mother's of dead gangsters at the White House whilst the families of murdered cops really don't get the same respect, I am saying that Obama has been non supportive of the policing body, especially in Illinois.

The President has made comments on ongoing cases, never really been done before but hey, the pres is too cool for school and he can get away with anything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 04:54:28 PM

That is immature bullshit muppet.

She was never President, every President leaves a mess for the incoming President, Trump will have to deal with the worst financial mess since 1929, he will have to deal with the JV squad Obama ignored, hmmm, let's see, the illegal immigrant situation, the fact that cops are not protcted under Obama's watch, I could go on but sure he was just as screwed by W.

Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any president in history.

http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/ (http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/)

But you won't read that.

As for the financial crisis being Obama's fault. You are right, he was screwed by Dubya. Obama didn't fix it so he deserves a lot of the blame, fair enough. But then he had a stalemate with both houses. So the blame for not fixing, or even succeeding in slowing down the mess that Dubya made, should probably be shared.

But you have been told that before and you ignore that too. You blame Obama and absolve the Republicans.

You call Hillary a liar, when all the evidence is that Trump is a prolific liar, given his penchant for making stuff up all the time on twitter.

But you will ignore that too.

You attacked Hillary's connections to Wall St., when TRUMP OWNS PART OF WALL ST!

You couldn't make this stuff up  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 05:14:48 PM
The cheese eating surrender monkeys were right. Iraq was a clusterfuck the US could not manage. France learnt its lesson in Vietnam. The US did not. 1500 vets have lost their genitals.  A symbol of waning US power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 05:27:07 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 05:10:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 04:59:53 PM
How are cops "not protected under Obama's watch"?

Are you saying that things are worse financially NOW than they were when Obama took over?

I am saying Obama receives the mother's of dead gangsters at the White House whilst the families of murdered cops really don't get the same respect, I am saying that Obama has been non supportive of the policing body, especially in Illinois.

The President has made comments on ongoing cases, never really been done before but hey, the pres is too cool for school and he can get away with anything.

Just because some facebook meme says it doesn't make it true.

I did a quick Google search on Obama meeting police families and brought up, from just this year, him meeting with the families of the victims in Dallas and Baton Rouge. That's just on the first page.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 05:36:40 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  Dec 16
Steve Mnuchin & OneWest also ran Financial Freedom, which serviced 17% of reverse-mortgages but were responsible for 39% of foreclosures.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 04:54:28 PM

That is immature bullshit muppet.

She was never President, every President leaves a mess for the incoming President, Trump will have to deal with the worst financial mess since 1929, he will have to deal with the JV squad Obama ignored, hmmm, let's see, the illegal immigrant situation, the fact that cops are not protcted under Obama's watch, I could go on but sure he was just as screwed by W.

Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any president in history.

http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/ (http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/)

But you won't read that.

As for the financial crisis being Obama's fault. You are right, he was screwed by Dubya. Obama didn't fix it so he deserves a lot of the blame, fair enough. But then he had a stalemate with both houses. So the blame for not fixing, or even succeeding in slowing down the mess that Dubya made, should probably be shared.

But you have been told that before and you ignore that too. You blame Obama and absolve the Republicans.

You call Hillary a liar, when all the evidence is that Trump is a prolific liar, given his penchant for making stuff up all the time on twitter.

But you will ignore that too.

You attacked Hillary's connections to Wall St., when TRUMP OWNS PART OF WALL ST!

You couldn't make this stuff up  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Let me be clear, Dubya screwed Obama going in, Obama went ballistic to try and fix the thing by recklessly throwing the future of the country away by spending with tremendous ignorace, thereby adding 9 Trillion plus to the national debt.

Obama had two years to make the changes he wanted to, all bar the supreme court, he did f**k all to make inroads during that time and his party caught hell for it in the mid terms.

Hillary IS a prolific liar Muppet, Trump has never made a meaningful decision yet, see the difference? Probably not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 06:02:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 04:54:28 PM

That is immature bullshit muppet.

She was never President, every President leaves a mess for the incoming President, Trump will have to deal with the worst financial mess since 1929, he will have to deal with the JV squad Obama ignored, hmmm, let's see, the illegal immigrant situation, the fact that cops are not protcted under Obama's watch, I could go on but sure he was just as screwed by W.

Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any president in history.

http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/ (http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/)

But you won't read that.

As for the financial crisis being Obama's fault. You are right, he was screwed by Dubya. Obama didn't fix it so he deserves a lot of the blame, fair enough. But then he had a stalemate with both houses. So the blame for not fixing, or even succeeding in slowing down the mess that Dubya made, should probably be shared.

But you have been told that before and you ignore that too. You blame Obama and absolve the Republicans.

You call Hillary a liar, when all the evidence is that Trump is a prolific liar, given his penchant for making stuff up all the time on twitter.

But you will ignore that too.

You attacked Hillary's connections to Wall St., when TRUMP OWNS PART OF WALL ST!

You couldn't make this stuff up  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Correct, Trump has spent the sum total of Zero seconds in office, clinton has been bleeding America and the world dry for decades, damn it Muppet open your mind to Donald, he might be great, just ask him.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:39:37 PM
Exactly.

You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Republican primaries.
You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Presidential election.

We'll just have to wait and see if you really stop blaming her for what Trump does in office.

Who ever said I'm "blaming" Hillary for anything

Her campaign contributed to Trumps rise by their collusion with the MSM in promoting a clown candidate. That is a contributing factor, but by no means the only factor that led to him winnng the Republican primary

In the general election, team Clinton scored about ten own goals any one of which could have turpodeod her candidacy.

Maybe my argument is too nuanced for you to comprehend....they contributed to the existence of an environment where he was able to get elected......if you want to twist that into saying I'm blaming Hillary for Trumps win....then knock yourself out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 21, 2016, 06:16:09 PM
So looking forward to the inauguration

(https://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/ability.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 21, 2016, 06:16:09 PM
So looking forward to the inauguration

(https://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/ability.jpg)

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:39:37 PM
Exactly.

You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Republican primaries.
You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Presidential election.

We'll just have to wait and see if you really stop blaming her for what Trump does in office.

Who ever said I'm "blaming" Hillary for anything

Her campaign contributed to Trumps rise by their collusion with the MSM in promoting a clown candidate. That is a contributing factor, but by no means the only factor that led to him winnng the Republican primary

In the general election, team Clinton scored about ten own goals any one of which could have turpodeod her candidacy.

Maybe my argument is too nuanced for you to comprehend....they contributed to the existence of an environment where he was able to get elected......if you want to twist that into saying I'm blaming Hillary for Trumps win....then knock yourself out

What is MSM - Is it Main Stream Media? As in not Fox News, Breitbart etc??

As for the rest.

Exactly. Call it what you want, but you making my argument for me.

To prove my point, who else is to blame for Trump's victory?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 21, 2016, 06:33:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:39:37 PM
Exactly.

You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Republican primaries.
You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Presidential election.

We'll just have to wait and see if you really stop blaming her for what Trump does in office.

Who ever said I'm "blaming" Hillary for anything

Her campaign contributed to Trumps rise by their collusion with the MSM in promoting a clown candidate. That is a contributing factor, but by no means the only factor that led to him winnng the Republican primary

In the general election, team Clinton scored about ten own goals any one of which could have turpodeod her candidacy.

Maybe my argument is too nuanced for you to comprehend....they contributed to the existence of an environment where he was able to get elected......if you want to twist that into saying I'm blaming Hillary for Trumps win....then knock yourself out

What is MSM - Is it Main Stream Media?


Clinton Network News and such Obama cheerleading stations. Garbage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
He is incompetent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
He is incompetent

His behaviour is that of the child who says 'I could have won that if I wanted to'. He is seriously irritated by losing the popular vote. Imagine what happens when someone like Duterte tells him he is the son of a whore and to go to hell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 07:43:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
He is incompetent

His behaviour is that of the child who says 'I could have won that if I wanted to'. He is seriously irritated by losing the popular vote. Imagine what happens when someone like Duterte tells him he is the son of a whore and to go to hell.

Its gnawing at his very bones.

One wonders how much negotiating he ever actually does? Does he ever have a thought or an emotion which goes unexpressed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 07:43:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
He is incompetent

His behaviour is that of the child who says 'I could have won that if I wanted to'. He is seriously irritated by losing the popular vote. Imagine what happens when someone like Duterte tells him he is the son of a whore and to go to hell.

Its gnawing at his very bones.

One wonders how much negotiating he ever actually does? Does he ever have a thought or an emotion which goes unexpressed?
Negotiating is seriously overrated. I went on a negotiating course once and was amazed at how flaky the theory behind it was.
Trump is a fraud. He is a man child. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.

He may well be right here though. You would campaign differently if you wanted to win the popular vote. You'd attack California, New York and other populous cities to at least try and minimise the opponent's wins there.

To win the electoral college, you identify the swing states, regardless of population or demographic, and you spend all your money trying to win them. Hillary Clinton campaigned in Arizona 2 days before the election FFS, rather than making sure she had Michigan and Pennsylvania tied up. That was crazy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
He is incompetent

His behaviour is that of the child who says 'I could have won that if I wanted to'. He is seriously irritated by losing the popular vote. Imagine what happens when someone like Duterte tells him he is the son of a whore and to go to hell.

Last time I checked he did win, you candidate lost, what part of this can you not accept?

He wiped the floor with your gangstee, it's over! be gracious for once.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.

He may well be right here though. You would campaign differently if you wanted to win the popular vote. You'd attack California, New York and other populous cities to at least try and minimise the opponent's wins there.

To win the electoral college, you identify the swing states, regardless of population or demographic, and you spend all your money trying to win them. Hillary Clinton campaigned in Arizona 2 days before the election FFS, rather than making sure she had Michigan and Pennsylvania tied up. That was crazy.
I was thinking the same thing. She relied too much on the polls
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 07:53:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 07:43:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
He is incompetent

His behaviour is that of the child who says 'I could have won that if I wanted to'. He is seriously irritated by losing the popular vote. Imagine what happens when someone like Duterte tells him he is the son of a whore and to go to hell.

Its gnawing at his very bones.

One wonders how much negotiating he ever actually does? Does he ever have a thought or an emotion which goes unexpressed?
Negotiating is seriously overrated. I went on a negotiating course once and was amazed at how flaky the theory behind it was.
Trump is a fraud. He is a man child.

Quite possibly the worst opinion I have ever read on this forum, negotiating is incredibly important to any deal being mutually beneficial,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on December 21, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
Well, we all know that Donald Trump is woefully uninformed and ill-prepared, to list only two of his shortcomings, but we've been repeatedly reassured that he'd surround himself with the creme de la creme, but now that he has made cabinet appointments, we see that for a change he has kept his word.  He has chosen the cream of the crop, and like cream, they are rich and thick.  And so, in the spirit of seasonal jollity, I offer you a fun game--guess Rick Perry's college grades.  He's the new Secretary of Energy, the person charged with handling nuclear waste.among other things. So, here's his college transcript.  If there appear to be repetitions, it's that the school was on the trimester system, and some courses lasted more than one trimester.

Composition  B
US History C
Military Systems C
Botany of Seed Plants C
Chemistry C
Improvement of Learning A
Composition C
Algebra B
Required Phys Ed B
Military Systems B
Zoology C
Chemistry C
US History C
Trigonometry D
Required Phys Ed B
Military Systems A
Org Chem D
Chem Lab B
Intro to Lit B
Required Phys Ed C
Physics C
Amer Govt B
Mil Systems C
Org Chem F
Chem Lab D
Shakespeare D
Phys Ed B
Physics C
Soil Science B
Economics D
Aero Power C
Crop Production B
General Animal Sci B
Basic An Sci B
Veterinary Ento B
Vet Anatomy D
Aero Power C
An Nutrition B
An Sci D
Reprod in Farm An C
Genetics C
An Sci 401 C
Feeds and Feeding D
Agri Production C
Public Speaking C
Biometry C
AS 402 C
Market. Ag Prod C
Sheep and Goat Prod C
Livestock B
Mktg of Livestock B
Large An Nutrition C
An Sci Seminar B
Writ. For Prof. Men. D
Acct Princip C
An Breeding 305 C
An Breeding 306 C
Acct Prin C
An Breeding 305 C
An Breed 306 C
Agri. Journal B
Business Law B
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:55:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.

He may well be right here though. You would campaign differently if you wanted to win the popular vote. You'd attack California, New York and other populous cities to at least try and minimise the opponent's wins there.

To win the electoral college, you identify the swing states, regardless of population or demographic, and you spend all your money trying to win them. Hillary Clinton campaigned in Arizona 2 days before the election FFS, rather than making sure she had Michigan and Pennsylvania tied up. That was crazy.

Still at it....

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  6h6 hours ago
I have not heard any of the pundits or commentators discussing the fact that I spent FAR LESS MONEY on the win than Hillary on the loss!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:56:22 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
He is incompetent

His behaviour is that of the child who says 'I could have won that if I wanted to'. He is seriously irritated by losing the popular vote. Imagine what happens when someone like Duterte tells him he is the son of a whore and to go to hell.

Last time I checked he did win, you candidate lost, what part of this can you not accept?

He wiped the floor with your gangstee, it's over! be gracious for once.

You don't seem to understand, TRUMP IS THE ONE WHO CANT ACCEPT IT.

Read it again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 07:59:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:56:22 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
He is incompetent

His behaviour is that of the child who says 'I could have won that if I wanted to'. He is seriously irritated by losing the popular vote. Imagine what happens when someone like Duterte tells him he is the son of a whore and to go to hell.

Last time I checked he did win, you candidate lost, what part of this can you not accept?

He wiped the floor with your gangstee, it's over! be gracious for once.

You don't seem to understand, TRUMP IS THE ONE WHO CANT ACCEPT IT.

Read it again.

I don't care what Trump accepts! Not my problem.

I hated your hero, she is dead, I have no dog to hunt in this fight anymore, clintons career is over people. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.

He may well be right here though. You would campaign differently if you wanted to win the popular vote. You'd attack California, New York and other populous cities to at least try and minimise the opponent's wins there.

To win the electoral college, you identify the swing states, regardless of population or demographic, and you spend all your money trying to win them. Hillary Clinton campaigned in Arizona 2 days before the election FFS, rather than making sure she had Michigan and Pennsylvania tied up. That was crazy.

Hillary barely campaigned in NY or CA, beyond fundraisers. We hardly saw a single presidential election ad here in NYC - maybe one or two a week. Ohio had them on every 3 minutes! And that was just tv, not robocalls and so on.

Hillary went to AZ because the polls suggested she might have a shot there, at least of making it competitive. Only at the last minute did they realize PA and so on were so direly vulnerable, hence the Independence Hall event the night before the election.

No way in hell was Trump ever winning CA or NY or making it close, same as Hillary in places like TX.

Take a look at her events in October: https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/ (https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/)

Its pretty clear, fundraising aside, that the rallies and speeches were focused on the battleground states, PA and MI among them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 08:03:20 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 07:59:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:56:22 PM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.
He is incompetent

His behaviour is that of the child who says 'I could have won that if I wanted to'. He is seriously irritated by losing the popular vote. Imagine what happens when someone like Duterte tells him he is the son of a whore and to go to hell.

Last time I checked he did win, you candidate lost, what part of this can you not accept?

He wiped the floor with your gangstee, it's over! be gracious for once.

You don't seem to understand, TRUMP IS THE ONE WHO CANT ACCEPT IT.

Read it again.

I don't care what Trump accepts! Not my problem.

I hated your hero, she is dead, I have no dog to hunt in this fight anymore, clintons career is over people. )

It most certainly is your problem. You will be living with the consequences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.

He may well be right here though. You would campaign differently if you wanted to win the popular vote. You'd attack California, New York and other populous cities to at least try and minimise the opponent's wins there.

To win the electoral college, you identify the swing states, regardless of population or demographic, and you spend all your money trying to win them. Hillary Clinton campaigned in Arizona 2 days before the election FFS, rather than making sure she had Michigan and Pennsylvania tied up. That was crazy.

Hillary barely campaigned in NY or CA, beyond fundraisers. We hardly saw a single presidential election ad here in NYC - maybe one or two a week. Ohio had them on every 3 minutes! And that was just tv, not robocalls and so on.

Hillary went to AZ because the polls suggested she might have a shot there, at least of making it competitive. Only at the last minute did they realize PA and so on were so direly vulnerable, hence the Independence Hall event the night before the election.

No way in hell was Trump ever winning CA or NY or making it close, same as Hillary in places like TX.

Take a look at her events in October: https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/ (https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/)

Its pretty clear, fundraising aside, that the rallies and speeches were focused on the battleground states, PA and MI among them.

That's my point J70. The electoral college means it is pointless campaigning in those states. And because they are so populous that skews the popular vote. If it truly was one man one vote and all votes were equal, those states would be contested a lot more and you can't assume the popular vote would be the same in them. They'd still be blue states but the margin might be a lot tighter.

Re Arizona I would have been amazed if she won it. I think her husband was the last democrat to win there and before him I don't know.  And the state is gun friendly and bordering Mexico with an immigration problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2016, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:39:37 PM
Exactly.

You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Republican primaries.
You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Presidential election.

We'll just have to wait and see if you really stop blaming her for what Trump does in office.

Who ever said I'm "blaming" Hillary for anything

Her campaign contributed to Trumps rise by their collusion with the MSM in promoting a clown candidate. That is a contributing factor, but by no means the only factor that led to him winnng the Republican primary

In the general election, team Clinton scored about ten own goals any one of which could have turpodeod her candidacy.

Maybe my argument is too nuanced for you to comprehend....they contributed to the existence of an environment where he was able to get elected......if you want to twist that into saying I'm blaming Hillary for Trumps win....then knock yourself out

What is MSM - Is it Main Stream Media? As in not Fox News, Breitbart etc??

As for the rest.

Exactly. Call it what you want, but you making my argument for me.

To prove my point, who else is to blame for Trump's victory?

There are many reasons why Trump won and Hillary lost......He didn't JUST win because Hillary did or didn't do X, Y or Z.

For (1) he had a message. (2) He ran a better campaign. (3) He was outside the establishment in a year when that mattered (4) he utilized social media and  other forms of media much more effectively (5) he didn't go into hiding for months on end in an effort to run down the clock

No one is to "blame" for Trump winning....he won it fair and square. Had she been a better candidate who ran a better campaign with a better message he MAY not have won.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2016, 09:36:26 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.

He may well be right here though. You would campaign differently if you wanted to win the popular vote. You'd attack California, New York and other populous cities to at least try and minimise the opponent's wins there.

To win the electoral college, you identify the swing states, regardless of population or demographic, and you spend all your money trying to win them. Hillary Clinton campaigned in Arizona 2 days before the election FFS, rather than making sure she had Michigan and Pennsylvania tied up. That was crazy.

Hillary barely campaigned in NY or CA, beyond fundraisers. We hardly saw a single presidential election ad here in NYC - maybe one or two a week. Ohio had them on every 3 minutes! And that was just tv, not robocalls and so on.

Hillary went to AZ because the polls suggested she might have a shot there, at least of making it competitive. Only at the last minute did they realize PA and so on were so direly vulnerable, hence the Independence Hall event the night before the election.

No way in hell was Trump ever winning CA or NY or making it close, same as Hillary in places like TX.

Take a look at her events in October: https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/ (https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/)

Its pretty clear, fundraising aside, that the rallies and speeches were focused on the battleground states, PA and MI among them.

That's my point J70. The electoral college means it is pointless campaigning in those states. And because they are so populous that skews the popular vote. If it truly was one man one vote and all votes were equal, those states would be contested a lot more and you can't assume the popular vote would be the same in them. They'd still be blue states but the margin might be a lot tighter.

Re Arizona I would have been amazed if she won it. I think her husband was the last democrat to win there and before him I don't know.  And the state is gun friendly and bordering Mexico with an immigration problem.

Fair enough.

I'm still glad it rankles him though, especially given all the whining that his supporters did beforehand about him possibly winning the popular vote and losing the electoral college! Cold comfort and all that. :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 09:37:55 PM
1 he lied.
2 the FBI intervened
3 the plámás
4 media gave him a free ride
5 many GOP voters are as thick as shit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 21, 2016, 10:26:30 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 21, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
Well, we all know that Donald Trump is woefully uninformed and ill-prepared, to list only two of his shortcomings, but we've been repeatedly reassured that he'd surround himself with the creme de la creme, but now that he has made cabinet appointments, we see that for a change he has kept his word.  He has chosen the cream of the crop, and like cream, they are rich and thick.  And so, in the spirit of seasonal jollity, I offer you a fun game--guess Rick Perry's college grades.  He's the new Secretary of Energy, the person charged with handling nuclear waste.among other things. So, here's his college transcript.  If there appear to be repetitions, it's that the school was on the trimester system, and some courses lasted more than one trimester.

Composition  B
US History C
Military Systems C
Botany of Seed Plants C
Chemistry C
Improvement of Learning A
Composition C
Algebra B
Required Phys Ed B
Military Systems B
Zoology C
Chemistry C
US History C
Trigonometry D
Required Phys Ed B
Military Systems A
Org Chem D
Chem Lab B
Intro to Lit B
Required Phys Ed C
Physics C
Amer Govt B
Mil Systems C
Org Chem F
Chem Lab D
Shakespeare D
Phys Ed B
Physics C
Soil Science B
Economics D
Aero Power C
Crop Production B
General Animal Sci B
Basic An Sci B
Veterinary Ento B
Vet Anatomy D
Aero Power C
An Nutrition B
An Sci D
Reprod in Farm An C
Genetics C
An Sci 401 C
Feeds and Feeding D
Agri Production C
Public Speaking C
Biometry C
AS 402 C
Market. Ag Prod C
Sheep and Goat Prod C
Livestock B
Mktg of Livestock B
Large An Nutrition C
An Sci Seminar B
Writ. For Prof. Men. D
Acct Princip C
An Breeding 305 C
An Breeding 306 C
Acct Prin C
An Breeding 305 C
An Breed 306 C
Agri. Journal B
Business Law B

Ooopps
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 21, 2016, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.

He may well be right here though. You would campaign differently if you wanted to win the popular vote. You'd attack California, New York and other populous cities to at least try and minimise the opponent's wins there.

To win the electoral college, you identify the swing states, regardless of population or demographic, and you spend all your money trying to win them. Hillary Clinton campaigned in Arizona 2 days before the election FFS, rather than making sure she had Michigan and Pennsylvania tied up. That was crazy.

Hillary barely campaigned in NY or CA, beyond fundraisers. We hardly saw a single presidential election ad here in NYC - maybe one or two a week. Ohio had them on every 3 minutes! And that was just tv, not robocalls and so on.

Hillary went to AZ because the polls suggested she might have a shot there, at least of making it competitive. Only at the last minute did they realize PA and so on were so direly vulnerable, hence the Independence Hall event the night before the election.

No way in hell was Trump ever winning CA or NY or making it close, same as Hillary in places like TX.

Take a look at her events in October: https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/ (https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/)

Its pretty clear, fundraising aside, that the rallies and speeches were focused on the battleground states, PA and MI among them.

That's my point J70. The electoral college means it is pointless campaigning in those states. And because they are so populous that skews the popular vote. If it truly was one man one vote and all votes were equal, those states would be contested a lot more and you can't assume the popular vote would be the same in them. They'd still be blue states but the margin might be a lot tighter.

Re Arizona I would have been amazed if she won it. I think her husband was the last democrat to win there and before him I don't know.  And the state is gun friendly and bordering Mexico with an immigration problem.

The system won the election for democrats and not one peep was heard out of them ar the time, your hero won LA and New. York and precious all else, the system is needed but certainly is not without its flaws.

Liberals and Trump alike need to move along, he won, they won, what's the problem?????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:39:37 PM
Exactly.

You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Republican primaries.
You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Presidential election.

We'll just have to wait and see if you really stop blaming her for what Trump does in office.

Who ever said I'm "blaming" Hillary for anything

Her campaign contributed to Trumps rise by their collusion with the MSM in promoting a clown candidate. That is a contributing factor, but by no means the only factor that led to him winnng the Republican primary

In the general election, team Clinton scored about ten own goals any one of which could have turpodeod her candidacy.

Maybe my argument is too nuanced for you to comprehend....they contributed to the existence of an environment where he was able to get elected......if you want to twist that into saying I'm blaming Hillary for Trumps win....then knock yourself out

What is MSM - Is it Main Stream Media? As in not Fox News, Breitbart etc??

As for the rest.

Exactly. Call it what you want, but you making my argument for me.

To prove my point, who else is to blame for Trump's victory?

There are many reasons why Trump won and Hillary lost......He didn't JUST win because Hillary did or didn't do X, Y or Z.

For (1) he had a message. (2) He ran a better campaign. (3) He was outside the establishment in a year when that mattered (4) he utilized social media and  other forms of media much more effectively (5) he didn't go into hiding for months on end in an effort to run down the clock

No one is to "blame" for Trump winning....he won it fair and square. Had she been a better candidate who ran a better campaign with a better message he MAY not have won.

Russia swung it for him.

Look at your own outrage at the words 'emails'.

What was in those emails again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 22, 2016, 12:02:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:39:37 PM
Exactly.

You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Republican primaries.
You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Presidential election.

We'll just have to wait and see if you really stop blaming her for what Trump does in office.

Who ever said I'm "blaming" Hillary for anything

Her campaign contributed to Trumps rise by their collusion with the MSM in promoting a clown candidate. That is a contributing factor, but by no means the only factor that led to him winnng the Republican primary

In the general election, team Clinton scored about ten own goals any one of which could have turpodeod her candidacy.

Maybe my argument is too nuanced for you to comprehend....they contributed to the existence of an environment where he was able to get elected......if you want to twist that into saying I'm blaming Hillary for Trumps win....then knock yourself out

What is MSM - Is it Main Stream Media? As in not Fox News, Breitbart etc??

As for the rest.

Exactly. Call it what you want, but you making my argument for me.

To prove my point, who else is to blame for Trump's victory?

There are many reasons why Trump won and Hillary lost......He didn't JUST win because Hillary did or didn't do X, Y or Z.

For (1) he had a message. (2) He ran a better campaign. (3) He was outside the establishment in a year when that mattered (4) he utilized social media and  other forms of media much more effectively (5) he didn't go into hiding for months on end in an effort to run down the clock

No one is to "blame" for Trump winning....he won it fair and square. Had she been a better candidate who ran a better campaign with a better message he MAY not have won.

Russia swung it for him.

Look at your own outrage at the words 'emails'.

What was in those emails again?

Emails shemales......Democratic operatives planted a hidden camera at a closed door Romney fundraiser and broadcast his 47% comment to the world which very possibly cost him the '12 election.

Regardless of how the emails came into the public domai , it was the content that cost them votes.....content that they alone were responsible for

If she was a better candidate, the emails wouldn't have mattered a fluck. Democrats start off with a huge advantage under the electoral college system and she still fvcked it up.....and she ran a shit campaign

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861/amp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 12:03:59 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:39:37 PM
Exactly.

You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Republican primaries.
You blame Hillary for Trump winning the Presidential election.

We'll just have to wait and see if you really stop blaming her for what Trump does in office.

Who ever said I'm "blaming" Hillary for anything

Her campaign contributed to Trumps rise by their collusion with the MSM in promoting a clown candidate. That is a contributing factor, but by no means the only factor that led to him winnng the Republican primary

In the general election, team Clinton scored about ten own goals any one of which could have turpodeod her candidacy.

Maybe my argument is too nuanced for you to comprehend....they contributed to the existence of an environment where he was able to get elected......if you want to twist that into saying I'm blaming Hillary for Trumps win....then knock yourself out

What is MSM - Is it Main Stream Media? As in not Fox News, Breitbart etc??

As for the rest.

Exactly. Call it what you want, but you making my argument for me.

To prove my point, who else is to blame for Trump's victory?

There are many reasons why Trump won and Hillary lost......He didn't JUST win because Hillary did or didn't do X, Y or Z.

For (1) he had a message. (2) He ran a better campaign. (3) He was outside the establishment in a year when that mattered (4) he utilized social media and  other forms of media much more effectively (5) he didn't go into hiding for months on end in an effort to run down the clock

No one is to "blame" for Trump winning....he won it fair and square. Had she been a better candidate who ran a better campaign with a better message he MAY not have won.

Russia swung it for him.

Look at your own outrage at the words 'emails'.

What was in those emails again?

Hillary swung it for him, the corrupt Democratic process swung it for him, man up Muppet, you did this to yourselves!

Accept responsibility and learn, better still don't and remain arrogant losers. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 22, 2016, 12:08:17 AM
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2016, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2016, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 21, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38397594)

In his latest Twitter tirade, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he could have won more votes than his rival Hillary Clinton.
"I would have done even better in the election, if that is possible, if the winner was based on popular vote - but would campaign differently," he said.

The Republican insisted his strategy was more "sophisticated".

He won nearly three million fewer votes than the Democratic candidate, but prevailed in the electoral college.

The arcane but all-important institution formally certified him earlier this week as winner of the 2016 presidential election.

But the Manhattan billionaire is apparently still chafing at critics' claims that he lacks a popular mandate.

In two other tweets on Wednesday morning, Mr Trump said: "Campaigning to win the Electoral College is much more difficult & sophisticated than the popular vote. Hillary focused on the wrong states!"


There has never been a president like this one. It is going to be a very bumpy ride.

He may well be right here though. You would campaign differently if you wanted to win the popular vote. You'd attack California, New York and other populous cities to at least try and minimise the opponent's wins there.

To win the electoral college, you identify the swing states, regardless of population or demographic, and you spend all your money trying to win them. Hillary Clinton campaigned in Arizona 2 days before the election FFS, rather than making sure she had Michigan and Pennsylvania tied up. That was crazy.

Hillary barely campaigned in NY or CA, beyond fundraisers. We hardly saw a single presidential election ad here in NYC - maybe one or two a week. Ohio had them on every 3 minutes! And that was just tv, not robocalls and so on.

Hillary went to AZ because the polls suggested she might have a shot there, at least of making it competitive. Only at the last minute did they realize PA and so on were so direly vulnerable, hence the Independence Hall event the night before the election.

No way in hell was Trump ever winning CA or NY or making it close, same as Hillary in places like TX.

Take a look at her events in October: https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/ (https://hillaryspeeches.com/speech-archive/2016-2/october-2016/)

Its pretty clear, fundraising aside, that the rallies and speeches were focused on the battleground states, PA and MI among them.

That's my point J70. The electoral college means it is pointless campaigning in those states. And because they are so populous that skews the popular vote. If it truly was one man one vote and all votes were equal, those states would be contested a lot more and you can't assume the popular vote would be the same in them. They'd still be blue states but the margin might be a lot tighter.

Re Arizona I would have been amazed if she won it. I think her husband was the last democrat to win there and before him I don't know.  And the state is gun friendly and bordering Mexico with an immigration problem.

The system won the election for democrats and not one peep was heard out of them ar the time, your hero won LA and New. York and precious all else, the system is needed but certainly is not without its flaws.

Liberals and Trump alike need to move along, he won, they won, what's the problem?????

Which election did the system win for the Democrats?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 22, 2016, 12:14:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 09:37:55 PM
1 he lied.
2 the FBI intervened
3 the plámás
4 media gave him a free ride
5 many GOP voters are as thick as shit

Lol....keep it up.

The thick as shit GOP voters who swing it for him voted for Obama twice so get down off your high horse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 22, 2016, 05:44:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 12:14:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 09:37:55 PM
1 he lied.
2 the FBI intervened
3 the plámás
4 media gave him a free ride
5 many GOP voters are as thick as shit

Lol....keep it up.

The thick as shit GOP voters who swing it for him voted for Obama twice so get down off your high horse
Evangelicals will be waiting a long time for Trump to drain that swamp of special interests. The GOP will betray the dumb and ignorant over and over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 06:36:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 09:37:55 PM
1 he lied.
2 the FBI intervened
3 the plámás
4 media gave him a free ride
5 many GOP voters are as thick as shit

On point 5, I love your thinking, keep that idiocy up, at least they were smart enough to get up,off the couch, the union lickers didn't bother their collective holes,probably too busy selling their food stamps for meth. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 22, 2016, 07:47:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 12:02:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 11:27:35 PM
Russia swung it for him.

Look at your own outrage at the words 'emails'.

What was in those emails again?

Emails shemales......Democratic operatives planted a hidden camera at a closed door Romney fundraiser and broadcast his 47% comment to the world which very possibly cost him the '12 election.

Regardless of how the emails came into the public domai , it was the content that cost them votes.....content that they alone were responsible for

If she was a better candidate, the emails wouldn't have mattered a fluck. Democrats start off with a huge advantage under the electoral college system and she still fvcked it up.....and she ran a shit campaign

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861/amp

B-b-but you were completely outraged at those emails!

You said you would have supported her if you lived in a swing state. Now what was in those emails that changed your mind? Trump supporters chanted, like a Mugabe mob, 'Lock her up'. For what?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 22, 2016, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 06:36:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 09:37:55 PM
1 he lied.
2 the FBI intervened
3 the plámás
4 media gave him a free ride
5 many GOP voters are as thick as shit

On point 5, I love your thinking, keep that idiocy up, at least they were smart enough to get up,off the couch, the union lickers didn't bother their collective holes,probably too busy selling their food stamps for meth. )

Trump will shaft them. The GOP have been doing it since Reagan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 22, 2016, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 06:36:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2016, 09:37:55 PM
1 he lied.
2 the FBI intervened
3 the plámás
4 media gave him a free ride
5 many GOP voters are as thick as shit

On point 5, I love your thinking, keep that idiocy up, at least they were smart enough to get up,off the couch, the union lickers didn't bother their collective holes,probably too busy selling their food stamps for meth. )

Trump will shaft them. The GOP have been doing it since Reagan.

What do you think the democrats have been doing to middle Africa and the minority communities? Thats right, shafting them.

Both parties are in freefall and neither is capable of governing, the USA needs a viable alternative to both parties, a social liver, fiscal conservative central party that does pander to the like of the NRA and big tobacco etc, sadly it will not happen and the top and liberals will continue down this ruinous path they are on,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 22, 2016, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 07:47:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 12:02:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 11:27:35 PM
Russia swung it for him.

Look at your own outrage at the words 'emails'.

What was in those emails again?

Emails shemales......Democratic operatives planted a hidden camera at a closed door Romney fundraiser and broadcast his 47% comment to the world which very possibly cost him the '12 election.

Regardless of how the emails came into the public domai , it was the content that cost them votes.....content that they alone were responsible for

If she was a better candidate, the emails wouldn't have mattered a fluck. Democrats start off with a huge advantage under the electoral college system and she still fvcked it up.....and she ran a shit campaign

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861/amp

B-b-but you were completely outraged at those emails!

You said you would have supported her if you lived in a swing state. Now what was in those emails that changed your mind? Trump supporters chanted, like a Mugabe mob, 'Lock her up'. For what?

I wasn't "outraged" at the emails

I was outraged at the fact Chelsea Clinton stole money from the Clinton Foundation to pay for her wedding

I was outraged at the fact that senior DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta to give him a heads up about the investigation

Having 3 family members in the military, (one with a possibly the highest levels of security clearance) I was outraged that Hillarys emails were on Anthony Wieners laptop.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 22, 2016, 12:27:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 07:47:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 12:02:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 11:27:35 PM
Russia swung it for him.

Look at your own outrage at the words 'emails'.

What was in those emails again?

Emails shemales......Democratic operatives planted a hidden camera at a closed door Romney fundraiser and broadcast his 47% comment to the world which very possibly cost him the '12 election.

Regardless of how the emails came into the public domai , it was the content that cost them votes.....content that they alone were responsible for

If she was a better candidate, the emails wouldn't have mattered a fluck. Democrats start off with a huge advantage under the electoral college system and she still fvcked it up.....and she ran a shit campaign

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861/amp

B-b-but you were completely outraged at those emails!

You said you would have supported her if you lived in a swing state. Now what was in those emails that changed your mind? Trump supporters chanted, like a Mugabe mob, 'Lock her up'. For what?

I wasn't "outraged" at the emails

I was outraged at the fact Chelsea Clinton stole money from the Clinton Foundation to pay for her wedding

I was outraged at the fact that senior DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta to give him a heads up about the investigation

Having 3 family members in the military, (one with a possibly the highest levels of security clearance) I was outraged that Hillarys emails were on Anthony Wieners laptop.

So you were and weren't outraged about the emails.

Ok.

And what does a security clearance matter anyway? Trump has cancelled his intelligence briefings because he is 'smart'. Thus your president thinks security briefings only for dumb people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 22, 2016, 12:35:17 PM
Seeing as Trump has won the election does that mean Fox/Breitbart/Infowars are the Main Stream Media now??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 22, 2016, 12:39:59 PM
"Draining the swamp" #168... ;D

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/21/carl-icahn-donald-trump-special-adviser-regulation

Trump adds billionaire Carl Icahn to team as special adviser on regulation

Yet another wealthy businessman, who invests in the oil industry and bought the president-elect's floundering Atlantic City casinos, joins transition team

Donald Trump added another billionaire to his presidential transition team on Wednesday: Carl Icahn, the 80-year-old activist shareholder and long-time friend who once helped Trump keep control of his troubled New Jersey casinos.

Icahn will be a special adviser to the president-elect overseeing regulation, according to the transition team.

According to Forbes, Icahn has a net worth of $16.5bn adding his wealth to a team that already looks set to be the wealthiest White House team in history. Trump had considered him for the post of Treasury secretary but Icahn rejected the suggestions saying: "I'm not ever going to be secretary of anything in Washington."

This appointment is not an official government position and Icahn will therefore not have to divest of his vast business holdings in order to comply with government-mandated conflict of interest rules.

The hedge fund manager has been one of Trump's closest advisers and officially endorsed the president-elect in the summer of 2015. "Carl was with me from the beginning and with his being one of the world's great businessmen, that was something I truly appreciated," said Trump. Trump said Icahn's "help on the strangling regulations that our country is faced with will be invaluable".

Icahn has been a persistent critic of government regulation, most recently "crazy regulations" at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). He is a major investor in CVR Energy, an oil refiner, whose business he claims has been harmed by EPA regulations.

Trump consulted with Icahn before appointing Scott Pruitt, Oklahoma's attorney general and another EPA critic, to head the agency.

"I am proud to serve President-elect Trump as a special adviser on regulatory reform," said Icahn. "Under President Obama, America's business owners have been crippled by over $1tn in new regulations and over 750bn hours dealing with paperwork. It's time to break free of excessive regulation and let our entrepreneurs do what they do best: create jobs and support communities."

The billionaire, who has a home near Trump's Palm Beach base, Mar-A-Lago, started his career on Wall Street and has built a reputation as a fierce corporate raider.

Before Trump's elevation, Icahn was best known for his often heated battles with executives at companies, including Apple, eBay, Dell and Time Warner. In 2015 he took on Apple's chief executive officer Tim Cook, telling him the iPhone-maker was "dramatically undervalued".

In the 1990s Icahn was a bondholder in Trump's failing Taj Mahal casino in New Jersey. Trump was able to keep control if the casino despite failing to make payments to Icahn and other bondholders thanks in large part to advice given by another Trump appointee, Wilbur Ross, a billionaire bankruptcy expert and now Trump's appointed commerce secretary.


----

The last part I bolded has to be satire.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 22, 2016, 03:09:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 12:27:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 07:47:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 12:02:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 11:27:35 PM
Russia swung it for him.

Look at your own outrage at the words 'emails'.

What was in those emails again?

Emails shemales......Democratic operatives planted a hidden camera at a closed door Romney fundraiser and broadcast his 47% comment to the world which very possibly cost him the '12 election.

Regardless of how the emails came into the public domai , it was the content that cost them votes.....content that they alone were responsible for

If she was a better candidate, the emails wouldn't have mattered a fluck. Democrats start off with a huge advantage under the electoral college system and she still fvcked it up.....and she ran a shit campaign

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861/amp

B-b-but you were completely outraged at those emails!

You said you would have supported her if you lived in a swing state. Now what was in those emails that changed your mind? Trump supporters chanted, like a Mugabe mob, 'Lock her up'. For what?

I wasn't "outraged" at the emails

I was outraged at the fact Chelsea Clinton stole money from the Clinton Foundation to pay for her wedding

I was outraged at the fact that senior DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta to give him a heads up about the investigation

Having 3 family members in the military, (one with a possibly the highest levels of security clearance) I was outraged that Hillarys emails were on Anthony Wieners laptop.

So you were and weren't outraged about the emails.

Ok.

And what does a security clearance matter anyway? Trump has cancelled his intelligence briefings because he is 'smart'. Thus your president thinks security briefings only for dumb people?

Lol-it didn't do Obama much good sitting in on all his briefings.....how are the JV Terrorists doing these days. I wonder if he sent them a holiday card
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:19:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 03:09:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 12:27:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 07:47:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 12:02:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 11:27:35 PM
Russia swung it for him.

Look at your own outrage at the words 'emails'.

What was in those emails again?

Emails shemales......Democratic operatives planted a hidden camera at a closed door Romney fundraiser and broadcast his 47% comment to the world which very possibly cost him the '12 election.

Regardless of how the emails came into the public domai , it was the content that cost them votes.....content that they alone were responsible for

If she was a better candidate, the emails wouldn't have mattered a fluck. Democrats start off with a huge advantage under the electoral college system and she still fvcked it up.....and she ran a shit campaign

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861/amp

B-b-but you were completely outraged at those emails!

You said you would have supported her if you lived in a swing state. Now what was in those emails that changed your mind? Trump supporters chanted, like a Mugabe mob, 'Lock her up'. For what?

I wasn't "outraged" at the emails

I was outraged at the fact Chelsea Clinton stole money from the Clinton Foundation to pay for her wedding

I was outraged at the fact that senior DOJ officials were emailing John Podesta to give him a heads up about the investigation

Having 3 family members in the military, (one with a possibly the highest levels of security clearance) I was outraged that Hillarys emails were on Anthony Wieners laptop.

So you were and weren't outraged about the emails.

Ok.

And what does a security clearance matter anyway? Trump has cancelled his intelligence briefings because he is 'smart'. Thus your president thinks security briefings only for dumb people?

Lol-it didn't do Obama much good sitting in on all his briefings.....how are the JV Terrorists doing these days. I wonder if he sent them a holiday card

Ah right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 22, 2016, 06:10:31 PM
Donald J. Trump Verified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes

Well, now we know how he means to negotiate better deals.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 22, 2016, 06:36:24 PM
550 megatonnes/7000 warheads is such a piddly amount after all.

Good luck finding somewhere to perform test detonations, if that is his intention.

(http://www.armscontrol.org/files/images/WarheadInventories_161103.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 22, 2016, 07:19:44 PM
The Chinese leadership is far more coherent at the moment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 22, 2016, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2016, 03:09:49 PM

Lol-it didn't do Obama much good sitting in on all his briefings.....how are the JV Terrorists doing these days. I wonder if he sent them a holiday card

Ask Bin Laden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 22, 2016, 08:27:10 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.

:o ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 22, 2016, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.

You can't go on.

You throw out comments as if they are facts, and never provide any back up. And then you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being a liar.

For example, you think she should go to jail for the 'death of her former lover'. Off you go. Please provide some proof. Otherwise it will appear that you are the liar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.

You can't go on.

You throw out comments as if they are facts, and never provide any back up. And then you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being a liar.

For example, you think she should go to jail for the 'death of her former lover'. Off you go. Please provide some proof. Otherwise it will appear that you are the liar.

You are right Muppet, I think she is Lily white, pure as the driven snow, fact is she is the Teflon Don of politics.

The DOJ failed to do their job because they are bought and paid for, her hubby, the serial intern stogie f**ker, actually got on a plane with a liberal government official and bullied her into calling off the dogs, the Clintons are pond scum and nothing sticks, you know this, the proof is under your nose, you just do not have the minerals to admit that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 22, 2016, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.

You can't go on.

You throw out comments as if they are facts, and never provide any back up. And then you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being a liar.

For example, you think she should go to jail for the 'death of her former lover'. Off you go. Please provide some proof. Otherwise it will appear that you are the liar.

You are right Muppet, I think she is Lily white, pure as the driven snow, fact is she is the Teflon Don of politics.

The DOJ failed to do their job because they are bought and paid for, her hubby, the serial intern stogie f**ker, actually got on a plane with a liberal government official and bullied her into calling off the dogs, the Clintons are pond scum and nothing sticks, you know this, the proof is under your nose, you just do not have the minerals to admit that.

This is a straw man argument. IT IS NOT AN ANSWER.

Now, at the risk of being seen to be telling blatant lies, please provide some proof that she is somehow responsible for the death of her former lover.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 22, 2016, 10:26:48 PM
From Snopes, how to construct a bullshit list of "mysterious deaths" associated with any random famous person:

QuoteList every dead person with even the most tenuous of connections to your subject. It doesn't matter how these people died, or how tangential they were to your subject's life. The longer the list, the more impressive it looks and the less likely anyone is to challenge it. By the time readers get to the bottom of the list, they'll be too weary to wonder what could possibly be relevant about the death of people such as Bill Clinton's mother's chiropractor.

Play word games. Make sure every death is presented as "mysterious." All accidental deaths are to be labelled "suspicious," even though by definition accidents occur when something unexpected goes wrong. Every self-inflicted death discussed must include the phrase "ruled a suicide" to imply just the opposite. When an autopsy contradicts a "mysterious death" theory, dispute it; when none was performed because none was needed, claim that "no autopsy was allowed." Make liberal use of words such as 'allegedly' and 'supposedly' to dismiss facts you can't support or contradict with hard evidence.

Make sure every inconsistency or unexplained detail you can dredge up is offered as evidence of a conspiracy, no matter how insignificant or pointless it may be. If an obvious suicide is discovered wearing only one shoe, ignore the physical evidence of self-inflicted death and dwell on the missing shoe. You don't have to establish an alternate theory of the death; just keep harping that the missing shoe "can't be explained."

If the data doesn't fit your conclusion, ignore it. You don't have to explain why the people who claimed to have the most damaging goods on Clinton (e.g., Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, Linda Tripp, Monica Lewinsky, Kenneth Starr), are still walking around unscathed while dozens of bit players have been bumped off. It's inconvenient for you, so don't mention it.

Most important, don't let facts and details stand in your way! If you can pass off a death by pneumonia as a "suicide," do it! If a cause of death contradicts your conspiracy theory, claim it was "never determined." If your chronology of events is impossible, who cares? It's not like anybody is going to check up on this stuff ...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 10:54:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.

You can't go on.

You throw out comments as if they are facts, and never provide any back up. And then you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being a liar.

For example, you think she should go to jail for the 'death of her former lover'. Off you go. Please provide some proof. Otherwise it will appear that you are the liar.

You are right Muppet, I think she is Lily white, pure as the driven snow, fact is she is the Teflon Don of politics.

The DOJ failed to do their job because they are bought and paid for, her hubby, the serial intern stogie f**ker, actually got on a plane with a liberal government official and bullied her into calling off the dogs, the Clintons are pond scum and nothing sticks, you know this, the proof is under your nose, you just do not have the minerals to admit that.

This is a straw man argument. IT IS NOT AN ANSWER.

Now, at the risk of being seen to be telling blatant lies, please provide some proof that she is somehow responsible for the death of her former lover.

Ok lads, explain to me how Clinton does not go to jail for her email scandal, you know, the one were she was sending classified, top secret and above emails which are said to be hacked, depending on who you listen to!

As for the killing of her ex, a simple internet check on her former lover/business partner raises interesting questions.

I am convinced the **** could cut the throat of Donald J and Billy Bob would magically make it disappear.

Muppet, I respect the fact you think she is the second coming of the virgin Mary, you, like myself are too far gone on Hillary, I want her in jail and you want her babies! )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 22, 2016, 11:28:05 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 10:54:53 PM

Muppet, I respect the fact you think she is the second coming of the virgin Mary, you, like myself are too far gone on Hillary, I want her in jail and you want her babies! )
The only possible response to this is "Jesus".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 22, 2016, 11:31:46 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 10:54:53 PM
depending on who you listen to!

Right there is the key to the whole thing. When you listen to conspiracy loons you end up hearing conspiracy nonsense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 11:46:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.

You can't go on.

You throw out comments as if they are facts, and never provide any back up. And then you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being a liar.

For example, you think she should go to jail for the 'death of her former lover'. Off you go. Please provide some proof. Otherwise it will appear that you are the liar.

You are right Muppet, I think she is Lily white, pure as the driven snow, fact is she is the Teflon Don of politics.

The DOJ failed to do their job because they are bought and paid for, her hubby, the serial intern stogie f**ker, actually got on a plane with a liberal government official and bullied her into calling off the dogs, the Clintons are pond scum and nothing sticks, you know this, the proof is under your nose, you just do not have the minerals to admit that.

This is a straw man argument. IT IS NOT AN ANSWER.

Now, at the risk of being seen to be telling blatant lies, please provide some proof that she is somehow responsible for the death of her former lover.

I am not telling blatant lies, I truly believe she is an evil elitist count that killed her former lover, the men in Benghazi, that she is a war criminal and that she should be in prison for not living up to the promises she made when Obama made her his number two after the VP.

As the boul Fox Mulder said many times, the truth is out there Muppet, seek and ye shall find.

Muppet let it go, she is unhappily married to bubba, she can no longer have children and she hates your class distinction be it working or middle class.

Nothing sticks and you have absolutely no morals Muppet, completely devoid of ethical challenges, me, I hated the bitch and blame her for many of the ills in America, why I hear you ask Muppet, well Muppet, I believe this because it is true.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 23, 2016, 12:03:25 AM
Quote from: dec on December 22, 2016, 11:31:46 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 10:54:53 PM
depending on who you listen to!

Right there is the key to the whole thing. When you listen to conspiracy loons you end up hearing conspiracy nonsense.

Not really, I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, I simply think she is capable of anything and I am f**king with Muppet for fun at this stage, dude needs a holiday, he is wound right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 23, 2016, 09:54:21 AM
So the answer is No Stew.

'I believe' she is a murderer not evidence.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 23, 2016, 10:52:48 AM
Donald J. TrumpVerified account ‏@realDonaldTrump  12h12 hours ago
Based on the tremendous cost and cost overruns of the Lockheed Martin F-35, I have asked Boeing to price-out a comparable F-18 Super Hornet!

https://www.quora.com/Which-fighter-is-better-the-F-35-or-the-F-18-Super-Hornet (https://www.quora.com/Which-fighter-is-better-the-F-35-or-the-F-18-Super-Hornet)

No comparison between the two. One is 20 years old. Fine machine but way behind the F35 regardless of configuration.

This comment sums it up: 'The major difference in that airspace is the F-35 eliminates the target before the opponent knows he is airborne. Avionics, intelligence, speed and wicked stealth easily go to the new craft.'

The question is why would Trump go back 20 years for new fighters?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 23, 2016, 11:02:35 AM
Thank you for your service, Muppet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 23, 2016, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: stew on December 23, 2016, 12:03:25 AM
Quote from: dec on December 22, 2016, 11:31:46 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 10:54:53 PM
depending on who you listen to!

Right there is the key to the whole thing. When you listen to conspiracy loons you end up hearing conspiracy nonsense.

Not really, I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, I simply think she is capable of anything and I am f**king with Muppet for fun at this stage, dude needs a holiday, he is wound right.

You're not a fan of conspiracy theories, you simply think she is capable of anything??

Are you even reading what you write?? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 23, 2016, 11:22:32 AM
Trump is so out of his depth. The SNL skits are so close to the bone. The US needs someone serious at this juncture.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 23, 2016, 11:28:31 AM
Quote from: stew on December 23, 2016, 12:03:25 AM
Quote from: dec on December 22, 2016, 11:31:46 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 10:54:53 PM
depending on who you listen to!

Right there is the key to the whole thing. When you listen to conspiracy loons you end up hearing conspiracy nonsense.

Not really, I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, I simply think she is capable of anything and I am f**king with Muppet for fun at this stage, dude needs a holiday, he is wound right.

Ok......I am gnashing my teeth and banging the table with every post.

Enjoy that thought.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 23, 2016, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 11:46:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.

You can't go on.

You throw out comments as if they are facts, and never provide any back up. And then you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being a liar.

For example, you think she should go to jail for the 'death of her former lover'. Off you go. Please provide some proof. Otherwise it will appear that you are the liar.

You are right Muppet, I think she is Lily white, pure as the driven snow, fact is she is the Teflon Don of politics.

The DOJ failed to do their job because they are bought and paid for, her hubby, the serial intern stogie f**ker, actually got on a plane with a liberal government official and bullied her into calling off the dogs, the Clintons are pond scum and nothing sticks, you know this, the proof is under your nose, you just do not have the minerals to admit that.

This is a straw man argument. IT IS NOT AN ANSWER.

Now, at the risk of being seen to be telling blatant lies, please provide some proof that she is somehow responsible for the death of her former lover.

I am not telling blatant lies, I truly believe she is an evil elitist count that killed her former lover, the men in Benghazi, that she is a war criminal and that she should be in prison for not living up to the promises she made when Obama made her his number two after the VP.

As the boul Fox Mulder said many times, the truth is out there Muppet, seek and ye shall find.

Muppet let it go, she is unhappily married to bubba, she can no longer have children and she hates your class distinction be it working or middle class.

Nothing sticks and you have absolutely no morals Muppet, completely devoid of ethical challenges, me, I hated the bitch and blame her for many of the ills in America, why I hear you ask Muppet, well Muppet, I believe this because it is true.

You're becoming unhinged stew.

Maybe nothing sticks because most of the "charges" are made-up, conspiracy theory, bullshit. Has THAT ever crossed your mind?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 23, 2016, 11:48:55 AM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 10:54:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.

You can't go on.

You throw out comments as if they are facts, and never provide any back up. And then you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being a liar.

For example, you think she should go to jail for the 'death of her former lover'. Off you go. Please provide some proof. Otherwise it will appear that you are the liar.

You are right Muppet, I think she is Lily white, pure as the driven snow, fact is she is the Teflon Don of politics.

The DOJ failed to do their job because they are bought and paid for, her hubby, the serial intern stogie f**ker, actually got on a plane with a liberal government official and bullied her into calling off the dogs, the Clintons are pond scum and nothing sticks, you know this, the proof is under your nose, you just do not have the minerals to admit that.

This is a straw man argument. IT IS NOT AN ANSWER.

Now, at the risk of being seen to be telling blatant lies, please provide some proof that she is somehow responsible for the death of her former lover.

Ok lads, explain to me how Clinton does not go to jail for her email scandal, you know, the one were she was sending classified, top secret and above emails which are said to be hacked, depending on who you listen to!

As for the killing of her ex, a simple internet check on her former lover/business partner raises interesting questions.

I am convinced the **** could cut the throat of Donald J and Billy Bob would magically make it disappear.

Muppet, I respect the fact you think she is the second coming of the virgin Mary, you, like myself are too far gone on Hillary, I want her in jail and you want her babies! )

Emails - proof of intentional sharing of what were at the time classified emails is required for criminal prosecution. In a court of law. NOT conviction by Fox News or Limbaugh or Breitbart or Infowars or the "internet". Or even a cynical presidential candidate who'll say ANYTHING, but quietly drops the issue the second he's won.

Murdering her ex-lover - internet check... seriously, that's it? Are you this gullible in real life? Watch out for those Nigerian princes with wealth to free up.

I haven't seen ANYONE claim she is anything anywhere close to the Virgin Mary. You're the only one spouting deluded nonsense stew.

The rest see her as a horrible candidate who's ill considered attempt to get around FOIA laws ultimately cost her the election. There were other proximate causes, but it ultimately came down to her and her server in the end.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 23, 2016, 11:58:12 AM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 11:46:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: stew on December 22, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
That Weiner had classified material on his laptop should have had him and his idiot wife in the big house and Clinton with them.

What should Hillary be in jail for again Stew?

So many things Muppet that have been discussed on here as nauseaum, tired Muppet, can't bring myself to name them all, will the misuse of the Clinton Foundation do how about her email scandals, her warmongering, the death of her former lover, I could go on but the steak is ready.

You can't go on.

You throw out comments as if they are facts, and never provide any back up. And then you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being a liar.

For example, you think she should go to jail for the 'death of her former lover'. Off you go. Please provide some proof. Otherwise it will appear that you are the liar.

You are right Muppet, I think she is Lily white, pure as the driven snow, fact is she is the Teflon Don of politics.

The DOJ failed to do their job because they are bought and paid for, her hubby, the serial intern stogie f**ker, actually got on a plane with a liberal government official and bullied her into calling off the dogs, the Clintons are pond scum and nothing sticks, you know this, the proof is under your nose, you just do not have the minerals to admit that.

This is a straw man argument. IT IS NOT AN ANSWER.

Now, at the risk of being seen to be telling blatant lies, please provide some proof that she is somehow responsible for the death of her former lover.

I am not telling blatant lies, I truly believe she is an evil elitist count that killed her former lover, the men in Benghazi, that she is a war criminal and that she should be in prison for not living up to the promises she made when Obama made her his number two after the VP.

As the boul Fox Mulder said many times, the truth is out there Muppet, seek and ye shall find.

Muppet let it go, she is unhappily married to bubba, she can no longer have children and she hates your class distinction be it working or middle class.

Nothing sticks and you have absolutely no morals Muppet, completely devoid of ethical challenges, me, I hated the bitch and blame her for many of the ills in America, why I hear you ask Muppet, well Muppet, I believe this because it is true.

Stew you claim I have no morals, yet you bravely label a woman a whore and a murderer, without any evidence. And you say I am devoid of 'ethical challenges' - whatever that means. Without evidence or facts, one cannot even get to question one's morals.

You blame Hillary for many of the ills of America, because you 'believe'? That's it?

This is the argument of the DUP. It is the rhetoric of the likes of Netanyahu, ISIS and other fanatics. You don't burden yourself with issues like evidence or facts, upon which you can reason and analyse. Simply believing is enough.

Cults, factions and fanaticism have long been the scourge of the human race. While Trump is definitely a massive set-back for the world in this regard, with greater momentum in things like education, we as a society are overcoming this type madness. That is what I believe.

For evidence, we have lived in the longest era of world peace in recent history. Sure there are still wars, but nothing like the first half of the 20th century and before. Hopefully Trump doesn't spoil that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 23, 2016, 12:21:37 PM
I despise her Muppet, she is a horrendous excuse for a human being and her status and who she is married to are the reasons why she is not in jail, if you think her clean more power to her, she thinks she is above the law and the rules do not apply to get and she is 100 percent correct, up to now that is.
Your hero is a failed leader, thief and Billy who hates the vast majority of Americans, who would do it say anything and throw anyone under the bus to get elected, she even had the balls to implicate Colin Powell in her email scandal, she lied before Congress and due to get inaction got American diplomats killed despite over three hundred pleas begging for more security.

Your hero is an establishment cancer, I am completely compromised when it comes to Clinton, I admit that, how could I not, but dress it up any way you want, she is poison and the people saw that and voted in Trump rather than her, thsts how vile she is, she was deemed worse than Trump and she is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 23, 2016, 12:59:55 PM
Quote from: stew on December 23, 2016, 12:21:37 PM
I despise her Muppet, she is a horrendous excuse for a human being and her status and who she is married to are the reasons why she is not in jail, if you think her clean more power to her, she thinks she is above the law and the rules do not apply to get and she is 100 percent correct, up to now that is.
Your hero is a failed leader, thief and Billy who hates the vast majority of Americans, who would do it say anything and throw anyone under the bus to get elected, she even had the balls to implicate Colin Powell in her email scandal, she lied before Congress and due to get inaction got American diplomats killed despite over three hundred pleas begging for more security.

Your hero is an establishment cancer, I am completely compromised when it comes to Clinton, I admit that, how could I not, but dress it up any way you want, she is poison and the people saw that and voted in Trump rather than her, thsts how vile she is, she was deemed worse than Trump and she is.

Stew, she isn't my hero. In fact I seriously doubt she is a hero to anyone here. I would ask you for any evidence that anyone here proclaimed her their hero, but there is no point in asking you for evidence. As against that, most of us saw that she was a far better option than Trump. Your hated of her has blinded you that that. Congratulations to FOX NEWS on their success.

But because you hate her, then anything goes. Any abuse, and conspiracy, anything alleged by anyone against her, must be true.

And you dismiss other people's morals?

"she even had the balls to implicate Colin Powell in her email scandal"

Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice are guilty of the same thing she is accused of doing. Her version of things differs slightly from Powell's, but the differences are merely in interpretation of his correspondence. The fact is he did send her an email outlining how he did have  "a personal computer that was hooked up to a private phone line." That is a fact. She didn't make that up and Powell confirmed it.

For evidence: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/08/colin-powell-on-use-of-private-email-i-stand-by-my-decisions-and-i-am-fully-accountable/?utm_term=.10a6313defc6 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/08/colin-powell-on-use-of-private-email-i-stand-by-my-decisions-and-i-am-fully-accountable/?utm_term=.10a6313defc6)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 23, 2016, 02:47:08 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/11/03/obama-buries-nuclear-codes-in-white-house-back-garden/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/11/03/obama-buries-nuclear-codes-in-white-house-back-garden/)

(http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/nuke-codes.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 23, 2016, 04:36:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 23, 2016, 02:47:08 PM
;D ;D ;D ;D

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/11/03/obama-buries-nuclear-codes-in-white-house-back-garden/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/11/03/obama-buries-nuclear-codes-in-white-house-back-garden/)

(http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/nuke-codes.jpg)
That man could not have found the codes to bury the codes. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 24, 2016, 03:36:28 AM
Quote from: stew on December 23, 2016, 04:36:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 23, 2016, 02:47:08 PM
;D ;D ;D ;D

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/11/03/obama-buries-nuclear-codes-in-white-house-back-garden/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/11/03/obama-buries-nuclear-codes-in-white-house-back-garden/)

(http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/nuke-codes.jpg)
That man could not have found the codes to bury the codes. )

Keep digging Stew!  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 24, 2016, 09:32:27 AM
Obama left Israel to swing at the UN. 14 out of 15 voted against settlements and the US abstained.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on December 24, 2016, 10:14:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 24, 2016, 09:32:27 AM
Obama left Israel to swing at the UN. 14 out of 15 voted against settlements and the US abstained.
Is this vote just symbolic or will it actually have an effect on anything?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 24, 2016, 06:01:55 PM
Israel doesn't give a toss about anything the UN has to say about the Palestinians, so I doubt if this will have much impact. Although I'd take it as a sign that opinion in America seems to be changing on the Palestinian question. There used to be unanimous support for Israel across the board, but now it's splitting along party lines, so maybe time is on the side of the Palestinians after all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 24, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 24, 2016, 10:14:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 24, 2016, 09:32:27 AM
Obama left Israel to swing at the UN. 14 out of 15 voted against settlements and the US abstained.
Is this vote just symbolic or will it actually have an effect on anything?
It is a bad defeat for Israel  . NO international support for settlements. Could open the way for sanctions later. Very embarrassing for Netanyahu hence all the whining.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: muppet on December 24, 2016, 06:44:24 PM
Donald J. TrumpVerified account ‏@realDonaldTrump  22h22 hours ago
As to the U.N., things will be different after Jan. 20th.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 25, 2016, 09:42:38 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/dec/22/saturday-night-live-2016-best-skits-kate-mckinnon-tom-hanks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 25, 2016, 11:48:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 24, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 24, 2016, 10:14:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 24, 2016, 09:32:27 AM
Obama left Israel to swing at the UN. 14 out of 15 voted against settlements and the US abstained.
Is this vote just symbolic or will it actually have an effect on anything?
It is a bad defeat for Israel  . NO international support for settlements. Could open the way for sanctions later. Very embarrassing for Netanyahu hence all the whining.

Embarrassment is not enough, sanctions, heavy sanctions should be imposed on Israel and Benjy needs to be tried for crimes against humanity, will never happen though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 26, 2016, 02:34:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 24, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 24, 2016, 10:14:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 24, 2016, 09:32:27 AM
Obama left Israel to swing at the UN. 14 out of 15 voted against settlements and the US abstained.
Is this vote just symbolic or will it actually have an effect on anything?
It is a bad defeat for Israel  . NO international support for settlements. Could open the way for sanctions later. Very embarrassing for Netanyahu hence all the whining.

Israelis are cvnts...I read a book once by an author who has since been banned from entering Israel...very scary people

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17366045-goliath



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Far East on December 26, 2016, 03:41:54 AM
So all Israelis are c**ts and scary? That's one hell of a generalization, even for someone who spouts as much hateful shite as you do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 26, 2016, 09:30:24 AM
Quote from: Far East on December 26, 2016, 03:41:54 AM
So all Israelis are c**ts and scary? That's one hell of a generalization, even for someone who spouts as much hateful shite as you do.
Israelis are educated to hate. And they have a group trauma as a result of WW2.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 26, 2016, 11:59:32 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 26, 2016, 09:30:24 AM
Quote from: Far East on December 26, 2016, 03:41:54 AM
So all Israelis are c**ts and scary? That's one hell of a generalization, even for someone who spouts as much hateful shite as you do.
Israelis are educated to hate. And they have a group trauma as a result of WW2.

All Israelis have group trauma, really Dr Foid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 26, 2016, 02:06:59 PM
Quote from: stew on December 26, 2016, 11:59:32 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 26, 2016, 09:30:24 AM
Quote from: Far East on December 26, 2016, 03:41:54 AM
So all Israelis are c**ts and scary? That's one hell of a generalization, even for someone who spouts as much hateful shite as you do.
Israelis are educated to hate. And they have a group trauma as a result of WW2.

All Israelis have group trauma, really Dr Foid?
The Palestinian citizens don't . Israelis are very disturbed which is why there has been no peace. The Holocaust was only 70 years ago. Jews were hunted to death.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 26, 2016, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: Far East on December 26, 2016, 03:41:54 AM
So all Israelis are c**ts and scary? That's one hell of a generalization, even for someone who spouts as much hateful shite as you do.


Lol....because im not a sheep who votes Democrat Im been accused of spewing hate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2017, 01:50:43 PM
So what do our resident conservatives think about the House GOP's very first act of the new congress i.e. trying to shut down the independent ethics committee and turn it back into a partisan tool?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2017, 03:13:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2017, 01:50:43 PM
So what do our resident conservatives think about the House GOP's very first act of the new congress i.e. trying to shut down the independent ethics committee and turn it back into a partisan tool?

Still unclear how it's going to wash out but the optics are not good. For the record these changes were opposed by both Paul Ryan and Kevin McCarthy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2017, 04:03:31 PM
Looks like Trump (or his advisors) have seen the light too and are discouraging the move, ostensibly because there are "bigger" priorities (most would say the act stands as indefensible on its own merits, but I guess they have to play ball).

Hopefully they'll drop it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2017, 04:53:01 PM
Actually, maybe Trump shouldn't get credit - he still labeled the independent ethics body as "unfair" and was only quibbling about the timing, while Kellyanne Conway earlier supported the move to abolish it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 03, 2017, 05:20:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2017, 04:03:31 PM
Looks like Trump (or his advisors) have seen the light too and are discouraging the move, ostensibly because there are "bigger" priorities (most would say the act stands as indefensible on its own merits, but I guess they have to play ball).

Hopefully they'll drop it.

Duly dropped . . . that didn't take long!!

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/02/politics/office-of-congressional-ethics-oversight-of-ethics-committee-amendment/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2017, 05:22:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2017, 04:53:01 PM
Actually, maybe Trump shouldn't get credit - he still labeled the independent ethics body as "unfair" and was only quibbling about the timing, while Kellyanne Conway earlier supported the move to abolish it.

Whatever he does or says he'll get criticized....like the time he publicly disavowed the "alt right" group....he didn't do it fast enough for CNN

http://www.aim.org/on-target-blog/cnn-asked-why-did-trump-wait-so-long-to-reject-the-alt-right/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2017, 05:37:50 PM
He could have straight out told them it was a unacceptable to try to scrap an independent ethics panel in favour of one controlled by partisan committee chairmen.

It's not rocket science.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2017, 05:39:29 PM
And it did take Trump a weekend to disavow the support of David Duke, which any normal politician, left or right, would have swatted away like a fly!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2017, 05:58:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2017, 05:39:29 PM
And it did take Trump a weekend to disavow the support of David Duke, which any normal politician, left or right, would have swatted away like a fly!

May be he had more important things going on-LOL......KKK membership represents somewhere between 0.001% and 0.003 % of the US population.  Should we demand Hillary or Obama publicly disavow every Nation of Islam or Anti Police fringe group????

That was nothing more than a "gotcha opportunity" for the MSM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2017, 06:10:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2017, 05:58:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2017, 05:39:29 PM
And it did take Trump a weekend to disavow the support of David Duke, which any normal politician, left or right, would have swatted away like a fly!

May be he had more important things going on-LOL......KKK membership represents somewhere between 0.001% and 0.003 % of the US population.  Should we demand Hillary or Obama publicly disavow every Nation of Islam or Anti Police fringe group????

That was nothing more than a "gotcha opportunity" for the MSM

Sorry whitey, but that is nonsense.

Duke endorsing him, while a story, was not the big issue. That Trump prevaricated, presumably in an attempt not to rile the alt-right/KKK/whatever, was the issue. Had he said, when asked, that he found the views of Duke repugnant and wanted no part of his or his followers support, as he should have, it would have died there and then.

Trump is solely to blame for giving oxygen to that story, NOT the media. It was a perfectly legitimate question to ask. Voters are fully entitled to know what his views are on such matters, especially when there is some common ground between his platform and the wishes of the far right.

BTW, BLM had run ins with Hillary and Bernie which got plenty of coverage, especially from the right. Even stew, on this board (probably this thread) was posting about the "superpredators" stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2017, 06:40:28 PM
Maybe for Democratis  on either coast that was a big issue, but the voters saw it for what it was...nonsense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2017, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2017, 06:40:28 PM
Maybe for Democratis  on either coast that was a big issue, but the voters saw it for what it was...nonsense

So a candidate for president of the US choosing NOT to disavow the support of a self avowed racist and KKK leader is NOT something that matters?

And why the distinction between "voters" and "Democrats on either coast"??

Are they not voters too?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2017, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2017, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2017, 06:40:28 PM
Maybe for Democratis  on either coast that was a big issue, but the voters saw it for what it was...nonsense

So a candidate for president of the US choosing NOT to disavow the support of a self avowed racist and KKK leader is NOT something that matters?

And why the distinction between "voters" and "Democrats on either coast"??

Are they not voters too?
He did disavow them.....he just choose not to disavow them IN AS EXPEDITOUS A MANNER AS THE MSM DEMANDED-

The election is decided by the swing voters in the swing states.....just because you and people who share your political views have your knickers in a twist about it, doesn't (and didn't ) make it a pivotol issue for the people who ultimately decide who the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2017, 08:04:40 PM
1. I didn't say I had my knickers in a twist, nor did I say it was a pivotal issue. You are dismissing it as nonsense, which I am disputing. Indeed, YOU are the one who brought the issue up in the first place in an attempt to score a point against the so-called MSM.

2. Give me a break with the "expeditious manner" nonsense. I seriously doubt you even believe that sentence yourself. There was only one correct answer to the question, but Trump hedged, probably because he didn't want to alienate potential supporters. It was only after the blowback that he reconsidered and issued a definitive disavowal. After that, people moved on, as they would have done if he'd done what he should have in the first place (and which he'd had no problem doing earlier in his career).

Trump fucked up. Accept it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2017, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2017, 08:04:40 PM
1. I didn't say I had my knickers in a twist, nor did I say it was a pivotal issue. You are dismissing it as nonsense, which I am disputing. Indeed, YOU are the one who brought the issue up in the first place in an attempt to score a point against the so-called MSM.

2. Give me a break with the "expeditious manner" nonsense. I seriously doubt you even believe that sentence yourself. There was only one correct answer to the question, but Trump hedged, probably because he didn't want to alienate potential supporters. It was only after the blowback that he reconsidered and issued a definitive disavowal. After that, people moved on, as they would have done if he'd done what he should have in the first place (and which he'd had no problem doing earlier in his career).

Trump fucked up. Accept it.

He didn't... and any reasonable person could see through the games the MSM were playing, asking him for a spontaneous response to what amounted to a pile of nonsense......give me a break

Thankfully the voters saw it for what it was....and I didn't even support Trump

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2017, 08:22:48 PM
You're embarrassing yourself whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 03, 2017, 09:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2017, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2017, 06:40:28 PM
Maybe for Democratis  on either coast that was a big issue, but the voters saw it for what it was...nonsense

So a candidate for president of the US choosing NOT to disavow the support of a self avowed racist and KKK leader is NOT something that matters?

And why the distinction between "voters" and "Democrats on either coast"??

Are they not voters too?

You do realize Clinton wanted EVERYONE to be able to vote, including rapists, child molesters and murderers don't you???

I wonder who they would have ended up voting for??????? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2017, 01:42:47 AM
Quote from: stew on January 03, 2017, 09:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2017, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2017, 06:40:28 PM
Maybe for Democratis  on either coast that was a big issue, but the voters saw it for what it was...nonsense

So a candidate for president of the US choosing NOT to disavow the support of a self avowed racist and KKK leader is NOT something that matters?

And why the distinction between "voters" and "Democrats on either coast"??

Are they not voters too?

You do realize Clinton wanted EVERYONE to be able to vote, including rapists, child molesters and murderers don't you???

I wonder who they would have ended up voting for??????? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. ::)

Still on the beer stew?  ??? ??? ::) ;D

But, given that you want to introduce a red herring to the conversation, you do realize that in most states, ex-felons that have completed parole/probation can vote? Some states only withold the right from inmates. A couple even have no restrictions.

Is that all Hillary's fault?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 04, 2017, 01:47:08 PM
Trump is pro Putin and takes the word of Julian Assange (who obviously had an axe to grind with Hillary/Obama over Snowden) over the US Intelligence services. . . Things like this make me think we're in for a turbulent time over the next few years!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2017, 01:51:54 PM
No surprise. He's a conspiracy theorist. Their worldview hinges on cherry picking evidence that suits their predetermined outcome and ignoring anything that contradicts it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: haveaharp on January 04, 2017, 01:55:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2017, 01:51:54 PM
No surprise. He's a conspiracy theorist. Their worldview hinges on cherry picking evidence that suits their predetermined outcome and ignoring anything that contradicts it.

He is in the DUP ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2017, 02:07:20 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on January 04, 2017, 01:55:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2017, 01:51:54 PM
No surprise. He's a conspiracy theorist. Their worldview hinges on cherry picking evidence that suits their predetermined outcome and ignoring anything that contradicts it.

He is in the DUP ?

There is a lot of commonality between the DUP and the GOP.

Irrationality and conspiracy theorism is just a part of it!

Donnie would fit right in, albeit he probably lacks the religious fervour (he'd do a good job of bullshitting them though!).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2017, 02:30:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2017, 02:07:20 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on January 04, 2017, 01:55:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2017, 01:51:54 PM
No surprise. He's a conspiracy theorist. Their worldview hinges on cherry picking evidence that suits their predetermined outcome and ignoring anything that contradicts it.

He is in the DUP ?

There is a lot of commonality between the DUP and the GOP.

Irrationality and conspiracy theorism is just a part of it!

Donnie would fit right in, albeit he probably lacks the religious fervour (he'd do a good job of bullshitting them though!).

A lot of GOP voters are descended from Ulster Protestants. So they have the same thing for demagogues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2017, 03:16:29 PM
Egyptian song about overrating Obama with English translation .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ5Xk3pmqgI&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 05, 2017, 11:53:32 PM
4 scumbags kidnap and torture a yoing man who is mentally challenged, they cut his scalp and force him to curse out Donald Trump, not a peep from Sharpton or Jackson and blm cant comment on thesitusti9n, meanwhile it is not deemed a hate crime, Thank you liberal America, you are the best!  >:(




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2017, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: stew on January 05, 2017, 11:53:32 PM
4 scumbags kidnap and torture a yoing man who is mentally challenged, they cut his scalp and force him to curse out Donald Trump, not a peep from Sharpton or Jackson and blm cant comment on thesitusti9n, meanwhile it is not deemed a hate crime, Thank you liberal America, you are the best!  >:(

Incorrect!!

Black lives matter HAVE condemned the incident... https://www.facebook.com/BlackLivesMatter/posts/698016507036264

Jesse Jackson called it a "moral and spiritual collapse"

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/01/05/mayor-emanuel-jesse-jackson-sr-weigh-in-on-facebook-torture-video/

Al Sharpton on Twitter has called it a senseless vicious crime and pledged €1k to the family! https://twitter.com/TheRevAl

Good work from yourself and foxcommander on this stew keep dreaming up untruths and then row back on them when called out...

Also the four have been charged with hate crimes that post above is just a huge swing and a miss!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Don't complicate stew's resentment and irrationality with facts! ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2017, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Don't complicate stew's resentment and irrationality with facts! ;)

Lol....but they didn't condemn the actions quickly enough
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Don't complicate stew's resentment and irrationality with facts! ;)

Lol....but they didn't condemn the actions quickly enough

Did they refuse to condemn it at first when given ample opportunity?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2017, 12:59:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Don't complicate stew's resentment and irrationality with facts! ;)

Lol....but they didn't condemn the actions quickly enough

Did they refuse to condemn it at first when given ample opportunity?


Bbbuuuttt they didn't come right out and say it was a hate crime immediately upon finding out about it. That makes them complicit in these actions and they only reacted once they saw the public outrage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2017, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 12:59:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Don't complicate stew's resentment and irrationality with facts! ;)

Lol....but they didn't condemn the actions quickly enough

Did they refuse to condemn it at first when given ample opportunity?


Bbbuuuttt they didn't come right out and say it was a hate crime immediately upon finding out about it. That makes them complicit in these actions and they only reacted once they saw the public outrage

If Sharpton or BLM or whoever went on CNN or Fox or otherwise released a statement and prevaricated when asked/talking about this atrocious crime, you'd have a valid comparison to Trump's f**k-up regarding Duke. (And maybe they did - if so, post it).

Otherwise you just come across as engaging in desperate, invalid, whataboutery.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2017, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 12:59:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Don't complicate stew's resentment and irrationality with facts! ;)

Lol....but they didn't condemn the actions quickly enough

Did they refuse to condemn it at first when given ample opportunity?


Bbbuuuttt they didn't come right out and say it was a hate crime immediately upon finding out about it. That makes them complicit in these actions and they only reacted once they saw the public outrage

If Sharpton or BLM or whoever went on CNN or Fox or otherwise released a statement and prevaricated when asked/talking about this atrocious crime, you'd have a valid comparison to Trump's f**k-up regarding Duke. (And maybe they did - if so, post it).

Otherwise you just come across as engaging in desperate, invalid, whataboutery.

They should immediate and instantaneously condemned this as a hate crime.....let's hold them to the same standard as you guys are holding Trump to. ( and who says Trumpbfvcked up....the voters obviously saw it for what it was.....NONSENSE)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2017, 01:38:49 PM
Good to see he's concentrating on the future of the country anyway with his latest tweet about Schwarzenegger's ratings for the new Apprentice. . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2017, 01:44:16 PM
(https://tribwgntv.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/collage-suspects.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=300&strip=all)

These lives don't matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2017, 01:48:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 12:59:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Don't complicate stew's resentment and irrationality with facts! ;)

Lol....but they didn't condemn the actions quickly enough

Did they refuse to condemn it at first when given ample opportunity?


Bbbuuuttt they didn't come right out and say it was a hate crime immediately upon finding out about it. That makes them complicit in these actions and they only reacted once they saw the public outrage

If Sharpton or BLM or whoever went on CNN or Fox or otherwise released a statement and prevaricated when asked/talking about this atrocious crime, you'd have a valid comparison to Trump's f**k-up regarding Duke. (And maybe they did - if so, post it).

Otherwise you just come across as engaging in desperate, invalid, whataboutery.

They should immediate and instantaneously condemned this as a hate crime.....let's hold them to the same standard as you guys are holding Trump to. ( and who says Trumpbfvcked up....the voters obviously saw it for what it was.....NONSENSE)

Just because "the voters" elected him (never mind far more voted against him!) doesn't validate his initial refusal to disavow the support of David Duke.

That's like saying the large minority of Americans who are young earth creationists invalidates evolution and an ancient earth.

Facts are independent of popular opinion.

And again, the only thing Trump was rightfully judged upon was his cynical hesitance,m to condemn and disavow the support of David Duke. It wasn't a case that Duke made his statement and Trump waited a few hours before issuing his statement. Trump took four days and several public refusals to disavow before finally seeing the light.

So no, the standards are not the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2017, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 01:48:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 12:59:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Don't complicate stew's resentment and irrationality with facts! ;)

Lol....but they didn't condemn the actions quickly enough

Did they refuse to condemn it at first when given ample opportunity?


Bbbuuuttt they didn't come right out and say it was a hate crime immediately upon finding out about it. That makes them complicit in these actions and they only reacted once they saw the public outrage

If Sharpton or BLM or whoever went on CNN or Fox or otherwise released a statement and prevaricated when asked/talking about this atrocious crime, you'd have a valid comparison to Trump's f**k-up regarding Duke. (And maybe they did - if so, post it).

Otherwise you just come across as engaging in desperate, invalid, whataboutery.

They should immediate and instantaneously condemned this as a hate crime.....let's hold them to the same standard as you guys are holding Trump to. ( and who says Trumpbfvcked up....the voters obviously saw it for what it was.....NONSENSE)

Just because "the voters" elected him (never mind far more voted against him!) doesn't validate his initial refusal to disavow the support of David Duke.

That's like saying the large minority of Americans who are young earth creationists invalidates evolution and an ancient earth.

Facts are independent of popular opinion.

And again, the only thing Trump was rightfully judged upon was his cynical hesitance,m to condemn and disavow the support of David Duke. It wasn't a case that Duke made his statement and Trump waited a few hours before issuing his statement. Trump took four days and several public refusals to disavow before finally seeing the light.

So no, the standards are not the same.

I think he was kinda busy running for election to be instantaneously issuing public statements and rebuttals  in response to "endorsements" from organizations whose membership numbers tally somewhere between 0.001 and 0.003 % of the US population

And for all I know, maybe Hillarys campaign gave David Duke a bag of cash to make the endorsement, then conspired with the media to gin up a fake controversy .....stranger things have happened
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 06, 2017, 02:01:39 PM
Whitey,
Is your plan to go tit or tat on race issues in America believing the white folks get a tough time for those nasty black folks?
Not really a great plan is it statistically?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/idaho-football-coat-hanger-rape-teammate-john-rk-howard

See where this goes yet?

Make America grate again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2017, 02:08:40 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2017, 02:01:39 PM
Whitey,
Is your plan to go tit or tat on race issues in America believing the white folks get a tough time for those nasty black folks?
Not really a great plan is it statistically?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/idaho-football-coat-hanger-rape-teammate-john-rk-howard

See where this goes yet?

Make America grate again.

No I'm just having a little fun with J70.....there's just as much faux outrage about this incident as  there was about Trumps KKK endorsement

Unfortunately it's a race to the bottom at this point and the media shoulder a lot of the blame
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 06, 2017, 02:26:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 02:08:40 PM

Unfortunately it's a race to the bottom at this point and the media shoulder a lot of the blame

I agree. Sense went out the window a while ago...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2017, 03:28:53 PM
Donald tweeting out the important news this morning - the ratings of the Apprentice tv show
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2017, 06:11:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 01:48:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 12:59:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2017, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Don't complicate stew's resentment and irrationality with facts! ;)

Lol....but they didn't condemn the actions quickly enough

Did they refuse to condemn it at first when given ample opportunity?


Bbbuuuttt they didn't come right out and say it was a hate crime immediately upon finding out about it. That makes them complicit in these actions and they only reacted once they saw the public outrage

If Sharpton or BLM or whoever went on CNN or Fox or otherwise released a statement and prevaricated when asked/talking about this atrocious crime, you'd have a valid comparison to Trump's f**k-up regarding Duke. (And maybe they did - if so, post it).

Otherwise you just come across as engaging in desperate, invalid, whataboutery.

They should immediate and instantaneously condemned this as a hate crime.....let's hold them to the same standard as you guys are holding Trump to. ( and who says Trumpbfvcked up....the voters obviously saw it for what it was.....NONSENSE)

Just because "the voters" elected him (never mind far more voted against him!) doesn't validate his initial refusal to disavow the support of David Duke.

That's like saying the large minority of Americans who are young earth creationists invalidates evolution and an ancient earth.

Facts are independent of popular opinion.

And again, the only thing Trump was rightfully judged upon was his cynical hesitance,m to condemn and disavow the support of David Duke. It wasn't a case that Duke made his statement and Trump waited a few hours before issuing his statement. Trump took four days and several public refusals to disavow before finally seeing the light.

So no, the standards are not the same.

I think he was kinda busy running for election to be instantaneously issuing public statements and rebuttals  in response to "endorsements" from organizations whose membership numbers tally somewhere between 0.001 and 0.003 % of the US population

And for all I know, maybe Hillarys campaign gave David Duke a bag of cash to make the endorsement, then conspired with the media to gin up a fake controversy .....stranger things have happened

Busy me arse. You know right full well that he did the disavowals on cable and network news over a couple of days and that the reason these right wing extremists were excited about him was down to his immigration and anti-Muslim rhetoric, among the prime drivers of his campaign. And we're not talking some complex policy question here - we're talking about a very simple answer to a question about support emanating from a KKK leader.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 09, 2017, 11:38:12 AM
Ah lads it's hilarious reading his Twitter feed this morning.

Mexico will pay for the border "a little later"

Rupert Murdoch is a great guy.

Meryl Streep is one of the most over rated actresses
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 09, 2017, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2017, 01:36:38 PM
There's going to be books written about his tweeting! He will be a case study in narcissism, pettiness and paranoia that will put Nixon to shame. There is simply nothing he can let go unanswered. How the hell will he be able to focus on important issues like governmental policy and weighing far-reaching decisions as president when he's obsessed with every little thing said about him? If he gets even a fraction of the abuse Obama got, not least from Trump himself, he is going to end up in a psychiatric facility.

Trumps tweets were analysed his lad;

http://varianceexplained.org/r/trump-tweets/

Turns out the more aggressive tweets are coming from an iphone than the android phone Trump personally uses......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2017, 03:25:51 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 09, 2017, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2017, 01:36:38 PM
There's going to be books written about his tweeting! He will be a case study in narcissism, pettiness and paranoia that will put Nixon to shame. There is simply nothing he can let go unanswered. How the hell will he be able to focus on important issues like governmental policy and weighing far-reaching decisions as president when he's obsessed with every little thing said about him? If he gets even a fraction of the abuse Obama got, not least from Trump himself, he is going to end up in a psychiatric facility.

Trumps tweets were analysed his lad;

http://varianceexplained.org/r/trump-tweets/

Turns out the more aggressive tweets are coming from an iphone than the android phone Trump personally uses......

Think you're reading that piece wrong - its says the more aggressive stuff is coming from the android used by Trump and the more reasonable stuff from the iphone probably used by a staffer.

"Thus, Trump's Android account uses about 40-80% more words related to disgust, sadness, fear, anger, and other "negative" sentiments than the iPhone account does."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 09, 2017, 04:02:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2017, 03:25:51 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 09, 2017, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2017, 01:36:38 PM
There's going to be books written about his tweeting! He will be a case study in narcissism, pettiness and paranoia that will put Nixon to shame. There is simply nothing he can let go unanswered. How the hell will he be able to focus on important issues like governmental policy and weighing far-reaching decisions as president when he's obsessed with every little thing said about him? If he gets even a fraction of the abuse Obama got, not least from Trump himself, he is going to end up in a psychiatric facility.

Trumps tweets were analysed his lad;

http://varianceexplained.org/r/trump-tweets/

Turns out the more aggressive tweets are coming from an iphone than the android phone Trump personally uses......

Think you're reading that piece wrong - its says the more aggressive stuff is coming from the android used by Trump and the more reasonable stuff from the iphone probably used by a staffer.

"Thus, Trump's Android account uses about 40-80% more words related to disgust, sadness, fear, anger, and other "negative" sentiments than the iPhone account does."

yep,
  Got that one arse about face which scares me even more...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on January 09, 2017, 05:13:34 PM
Meryl Streep - first off she doesn't know anything about Martial Arts.
Second, how nice of her to show concern for a disable person being made fun of but not a whisper, not a mention from her or anyone else about a disabled white man begin kidnapped, humiliated, video and had a piece of his scalp removed... and all briadcast live on bookface for our viewing pleasure,...
the world is messed up...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 09, 2017, 05:24:43 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 09, 2017, 05:13:34 PM
Meryl Streep - first off she doesn't know anything about Martial Arts.
Second, how nice of her to show concern for a disable person being made fun of but not a whisper, not a mention from her or anyone else about a disabled white man begin kidnapped, humiliated, video and had a piece of his scalp removed... and all briadcast live on bookface for our viewing pleasure,...
the world is messed up...

What an interesting take...

Are you suggesting that she CANNOT comment on THE PRESIDENT ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA unless she ALSO comments on what happened last week?

For the record - disgusting crime, from disgusting people.

I'd wager that her commentary did however touch on what happened last week.

Quote"This instinct to humiliate when it's modeled by someone in the public ... by someone powerful, it filters down into everyone's life because it kind of gives permission for other people to do the same."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2017, 05:32:36 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 09, 2017, 05:13:34 PM
Meryl Streep - first off she doesn't know anything about Martial Arts.
Second, how nice of her to show concern for a disable person being made fun of but not a whisper, not a mention from her or anyone else about a disabled white man begin kidnapped, humiliated, video and had a piece of his scalp removed... and all briadcast live on bookface for our viewing pleasure,...
the world is messed up...

Why stop there?

Why have anyone comment on ANYTHING given that there's always some other worse issue of "whataboutery" out there somewhere?

Was the depraved attack on that kid controversial? Is it a political issue? Is anyone defending it? Rationalizing it? Arguing that those lowlifes won't deserve the long prison sentence they're headed for?

If you don't like her commenting on Trump, say so. If you think that the atrocity that happened to that kid has wider implications and warrants further discussion, then address that.

But pointing to some other issue is usually just a way of trying to invalidate a legitimate concern.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 09, 2017, 05:44:34 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 09, 2017, 05:13:34 PM
Meryl Streep - first off she doesn't know anything about Martial Arts.
Second, how nice of her to show concern for a disable person being made fun of but not a whisper, not a mention from her or anyone else about a disabled white man begin kidnapped, humiliated, video and had a piece of his scalp removed... and all briadcast live on bookface for our viewing pleasure,...
the world is messed up...

Trump is the President Elect of the United States - everything he does or says has huge proportional weight not only with his own citizens, but with people around the world. In running for the office, he consented to having his words and deeds judged in the court of public opinion. He is no longer a private citizen. Someone should inform the poor little snowflake of this.

Your post is an exercise in obfuscation and whataboutery - no matter how valid the criticism, if it comes from a source that is not deemed credible to your purposes at the time (Hollywood liberals, Democrats, non-red baseball cap wearing people, quadropeds), then it must be torn down. So of course, why don't you use implicit racism to weaponise what was an absolutely disgraceful incident that happened to a young disabled man?

So in that spirit, let me respond

how nice of Iceman to show concern for a disable person being tortured but not a whisper, not a mention from Iceman or anyone else about a disabled black man being humiliated, assaulted, having a coathanger stabbed into his rectum... and having his white attacker make a plea deal that would ensure that not only would he not see the inside of a prison, but would not even have to go on the sex offenders register,...
[/b]

Yes the world is messed up Iceman - by people like you, who only see horrible incidents as the three (I'm including Trump's awful disabled impression) referenced above, in terms of the ammo it gives you for discussion board arguments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne9gZzjSlFs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on January 09, 2017, 05:47:27 PM
yep its all my fault
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 09, 2017, 05:52:11 PM
Clearly it's not your fault. It's Meryl Streep's fault.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 09, 2017, 05:55:54 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 09, 2017, 05:47:27 PM
yep its all my fault

Glad to see you're finally taking some personal responsibility for your online words. Well done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2017, 06:00:23 PM
Lol....no one cares about what Hollywood celebrities think. Sooner the Democrats
wise up  to that the better.

Secondly....how did you like the snide snarky remarks directed towards those who watch football and MMA? Hahaha.....the Democrats will never learn.
 

I'm all set with listening to a lecture about anything from a person who gave a standing ovation to a child rapist

https://mobile.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/818484570815397889?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2017, 06:02:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2017, 06:00:23 PM
Lol....no one cares about what Hollywood celebrities think. Sooner the Democrats
wise up  to that the better.

Secondly....how did you like the snide snarky remarks directed towards those who watch football and MMA? Hahaha.....the Democrats will never learn.
 

I'm all set with listening to a lecture about anything from a person who gave a standing ovation to a child rapist

https://mobile.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/818484570815397889?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Iceman obviously cares.

As does Trump! ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 09, 2017, 06:07:23 PM
As does Whitey (who uses lol more than any man his age should).

There is a pattern, though. Ice, White, ....Snowflake???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on January 09, 2017, 08:41:08 PM
tiger you are just as guilty as any of us....
I admit that my response to Streep was not fully thought out and showed my frustration more than anything. I'm just upset at how many people (including on here) will openly speak out about democrat issues but if anything (including the somewhat torture of a white man) happens that is aligned to a possible republican agenda then its never brought up - no matter how bad it is.
The world is a mess - on both sides of this dotted line.  I don't sit on either side because I'm Catholic and I don't align to either. I will gladly condemn the wrong on both sides and the stupid issues that people will vehemently stand for because their party does. I've lost countless republican friends/associates because I disagree with their stance on the conflict in Palestine. I've lost many democrat friends because of my stance on abortion.
I'm committed to doing what I can this year to living a good life and caring for people more around me - thank God you're not my neighbour Tiger because you'd make it tough.  Iceman name is in tribute to chuck liddell. Thus the picture. Most snowflakes don't even know who he is.  I'm generation X though I would hazard a guess you're a millennial...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2017, 08:55:37 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 09, 2017, 06:07:23 PM
As does Whitey (who uses lol more than any man his age should).

There is a pattern, though. Ice, White, ....Snowflake???

That's too funny.....one of my kids told me last week that nobody uses lol or omg anymore
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2017, 11:32:27 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 09, 2017, 08:41:08 PM
tiger you are just as guilty as any of us....
I admit that my response to Streep was not fully thought out and showed my frustration more than anything. I'm just upset at how many people (including on here) will openly speak out about democrat issues but if anything (including the somewhat torture of a white man) happens that is aligned to a possible republican agenda then its never brought up - no matter how bad it is.
The world is a mess - on both sides of this dotted line.  I don't sit on either side because I'm Catholic and I don't align to either. I will gladly condemn the wrong on both sides and the stupid issues that people will vehemently stand for because their party does. I've lost countless republican friends/associates because I disagree with their stance on the conflict in Palestine. I've lost many democrat friends because of my stance on abortion.
I'm committed to doing what I can this year to living a good life and caring for people more around me - thank God you're not my neighbour Tiger because you'd make it tough.  Iceman name is in tribute to chuck liddell. Thus the picture. Most snowflakes don't even know who he is.  I'm generation X though I would hazard a guess you're a millennial...

But how is the torture of that kid a Republican issue? Do Democrats deny that black people are capable of horrible criminal acts?

That incident is something that has appalled everyone, no matter what side of the political divide they fall on.

It probably hasn't been analyzed to death here because what is there to discuss? It was a despicable, cowardly act. What more is there to say, at least from a political perspective?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2017, 11:34:23 PM
Also, Iceman, you need to pick better friends if they're dumping you because you disagree with them on a single issue. You're better off without such shallow, unsophisticated people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 10, 2017, 03:50:33 AM
Fair play iceman for admitting you posted in the heat of the moment. J70 hits the nail on the head in the last couple posts also
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 10, 2017, 05:00:34 AM
I was wrong about Sharpton and Jackson, that said I fail to understand why it took so long to be deemed a hate crime, oh yeah and apologies to blm also, they did make a statement denouncing the incident.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on January 10, 2017, 08:31:39 AM
There have been a lot of important developments in US politics this week so maybe you missed some of these:
1. The President-Elect fired all Ambassadors and Special Envoys, ordering them out by inauguration day. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/06/trump-tells-obamas-ambassadors-to-leave-by-inauguration-day.html
2. House brings back the Holman rule allowing them to reduce any named individual civil servant, SES positions, or political appointee's salary to $1, effectively firing them individually by amendment to any piece of legislation. We now know why they wanted names and positions of people in Energy and State. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house-republicans-revive-obscure-rule-that-could-allow-them-to-slash-the-pay-of-individual-federal-workers-to-1/2017/01/04/4e80c990-d2b2-11e6-945a-76f69a399dd5_story.html?utm_term=.37698e2965ce
3. Senate schedules 6 simultaneous hearings on cabinet nominees and triple-books those hearings with the President-Elect's first press conference in months and an ACA budget vote, effectively preventing any media coverage or protest. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/senate-confirmation-trump-cabinet-nominees-233247
4. House GOP expressly forbids the Congressional Budget Office from reporting or tracking ANY costs related to the repeal of the ACA. http://bipartisanreport.com/2017/01/06/gop-voted-to-ban-congressional-budget-office-from-calculating-obamacare-repeal-costs/
5. The President-Elect continues to throw shade on the intelligence community, despite the growing mountain of evidence that the Russians deliberately interfered in the US election. http://www.businessinsider.com/leon-panetta-trump-russia-cia-intelligence-2017-1
6. The President-Elect broke a central campaign promise by asking Congress (in other words, US taxpayers) to pay for his asinine "wall". http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/border-wall-house-republicans-donald-trump-taxpayers/
7. The President-Elect threatened Toyota over a new car plant that was never coming to the US nor will take jobs out of the US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/05/donald-trump-threatens-toyota-but-it-looks-like-he-got-the-facts-wrong/?utm_term=.f54bc657290a
8. House passes the REINS act, giving them veto power over any rules enacted by any federal agency or department--for example, FDA or EPA bans a drug or pesticide, Congress can overrule based on lobbyists not science. Don't like that endangered species designation, Congress kills it. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-regulations-idUSKBN14Q07B
I
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2017, 11:53:10 AM
Drain the swamp...end the influence of special interests... Democrats are corrupt...pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

The CBO ACA issue is especially despicable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on January 10, 2017, 01:04:14 PM
I have moved, kept on moving...
Proved the points that I need proving...
Lost the friends I needed losing...found others on the way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2017, 01:21:28 PM
Quote from: stew on January 10, 2017, 05:00:34 AM
I was wrong about Sharpton and Jackson, that said I fail to understand why it took so long to be deemed a hate crime, oh yeah and apologies to blm also, they did make a statement denouncing the incident.

Perhaps your assumptions about these people needs some re-examining.

Seriously, who in their right mind, of any political persuasion outside of some murderous halfwits, would condone what those kids did?

But then again you repeatedly post the nonsense about Hillary being a murderer and so forth.

It's the kind of demonizing and caricaturing and conspiracy theorizing that ends up with the would-be pizzeria assassin or worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2017, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on January 10, 2017, 08:31:39 AM
There have been a lot of important developments in US politics this week so maybe you missed some of these:
1. The President-Elect fired all Ambassadors and Special Envoys, ordering them out by inauguration day. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/06/trump-tells-obamas-ambassadors-to-leave-by-inauguration-day.html
2. House brings back the Holman rule allowing them to reduce any named individual civil servant, SES positions, or political appointee's salary to $1, effectively firing them individually by amendment to any piece of legislation. We now know why they wanted names and positions of people in Energy and State. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house-republicans-revive-obscure-rule-that-could-allow-them-to-slash-the-pay-of-individual-federal-workers-to-1/2017/01/04/4e80c990-d2b2-11e6-945a-76f69a399dd5_story.html?utm_term=.37698e2965ce
3. Senate schedules 6 simultaneous hearings on cabinet nominees and triple-books those hearings with the President-Elect's first press conference in months and an ACA budget vote, effectively preventing any media coverage or protest. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/senate-confirmation-trump-cabinet-nominees-233247
4. House GOP expressly forbids the Congressional Budget Office from reporting or tracking ANY costs related to the repeal of the ACA. http://bipartisanreport.com/2017/01/06/gop-voted-to-ban-congressional-budget-office-from-calculating-obamacare-repeal-costs/
5. The President-Elect continues to throw shade on the intelligence community, despite the growing mountain of evidence that the Russians deliberately interfered in the US election. http://www.businessinsider.com/leon-panetta-trump-russia-cia-intelligence-2017-1
6. The President-Elect broke a central campaign promise by asking Congress (in other words, US taxpayers) to pay for his asinine "wall". http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/border-wall-house-republicans-donald-trump-taxpayers/
7. The President-Elect threatened Toyota over a new car plant that was never coming to the US nor will take jobs out of the US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/05/donald-trump-threatens-toyota-but-it-looks-like-he-got-the-facts-wrong/?utm_term=.f54bc657290a
8. House passes the REINS act, giving them veto power over any rules enacted by any federal agency or department--for example, FDA or EPA bans a drug or pesticide, Congress can overrule based on lobbyists not science. Don't like that endangered species designation, Congress kills it. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-regulations-idUSKBN14Q07B
I

Democrats only have themselves to blame and I don't have an ounce of sympathy for them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2017, 02:59:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2017, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on January 10, 2017, 08:31:39 AM
There have been a lot of important developments in US politics this week so maybe you missed some of these:
1. The President-Elect fired all Ambassadors and Special Envoys, ordering them out by inauguration day. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/06/trump-tells-obamas-ambassadors-to-leave-by-inauguration-day.html
2. House brings back the Holman rule allowing them to reduce any named individual civil servant, SES positions, or political appointee's salary to $1, effectively firing them individually by amendment to any piece of legislation. We now know why they wanted names and positions of people in Energy and State. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house-republicans-revive-obscure-rule-that-could-allow-them-to-slash-the-pay-of-individual-federal-workers-to-1/2017/01/04/4e80c990-d2b2-11e6-945a-76f69a399dd5_story.html?utm_term=.37698e2965ce
3. Senate schedules 6 simultaneous hearings on cabinet nominees and triple-books those hearings with the President-Elect's first press conference in months and an ACA budget vote, effectively preventing any media coverage or protest. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/senate-confirmation-trump-cabinet-nominees-233247
4. House GOP expressly forbids the Congressional Budget Office from reporting or tracking ANY costs related to the repeal of the ACA. http://bipartisanreport.com/2017/01/06/gop-voted-to-ban-congressional-budget-office-from-calculating-obamacare-repeal-costs/
5. The President-Elect continues to throw shade on the intelligence community, despite the growing mountain of evidence that the Russians deliberately interfered in the US election. http://www.businessinsider.com/leon-panetta-trump-russia-cia-intelligence-2017-1
6. The President-Elect broke a central campaign promise by asking Congress (in other words, US taxpayers) to pay for his asinine "wall". http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/border-wall-house-republicans-donald-trump-taxpayers/
7. The President-Elect threatened Toyota over a new car plant that was never coming to the US nor will take jobs out of the US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/05/donald-trump-threatens-toyota-but-it-looks-like-he-got-the-facts-wrong/?utm_term=.f54bc657290a
8. House passes the REINS act, giving them veto power over any rules enacted by any federal agency or department--for example, FDA or EPA bans a drug or pesticide, Congress can overrule based on lobbyists not science. Don't like that endangered species designation, Congress kills it. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-regulations-idUSKBN14Q07B
I

Democrats only have themselves to blame and I don't have an ounce of sympathy for them

None of this bothers you as a citizen/resident/conservative who dislikes corruption/poor governance?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2017, 09:41:24 PM
Early Trump film

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs6UcgiDwg0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 11, 2017, 12:19:54 AM
Well. That's interesting!

Trump likes to, eh, shower with gold taps.

That's what a golden shower is....isn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 11, 2017, 01:36:11 AM
The Manchurian candidate, president elect Trumpski.

You couldn't make this up

Odds on President Pence in 2017 anyone?

Or are they taking the piss, in Moscow, at Miss Universe, yellow on orange. Or is it gold...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 11, 2017, 02:04:35 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 11, 2017, 01:36:11 AM
The Manchurian candidate, president elect Trumpski.

You couldn't make this up

Odds on President Pence in 2017 anyone?

Or are they taking the piss, in Moscow, at Miss Universe, yellow on orange. Or is it gold...


Stranger things have happened.......I wouldnt be at all surprised if they have the goods on him....actually I would be more surprised if they didnt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 11, 2017, 07:13:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2017, 01:21:28 PM
Quote from: stew on January 10, 2017, 05:00:34 AM
I was wrong about Sharpton and Jackson, that said I fail to understand why it took so long to be deemed a hate crime, oh yeah and apologies to blm also, they did make a statement denouncing the incident.

Perhaps your assumptions about these people needs some re-examining.

Seriously, who in their right mind, of any political persuasion outside of some murderous halfwits, would condone what those kids did?

But then again you repeatedly post the nonsense about Hillary being a murderer and so forth.

It's the kind of demonizing and caricaturing and conspiracy theorizing that ends up with the would-be pizzeria assassin or worse.

I never said they confined the behaviour of those animals, I was wondering why they did not come right out and denounce it, kind of like Trump on white supremacists.

Sharpton and Jackson did the right thing, I was wrong, did I was wrong, what more do you want.

As for Clinton, I and many millions of people would put nothing past that bitch, including murder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 11, 2017, 07:56:14 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C13DLakXAAEn0vy.jpg:large)

"DJT- It must suck to be dogged by salacious rumors ppl r gonna believe forever, regardless of evidence. Hope urine decent spirits. -HRC"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 12:01:22 PM
I have to say I enjoyed that. The king of misinformation getting done by a fabricated story ... good enough for him!!!

I'd say he's spitting bullets in Trump Tower class!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 11, 2017, 12:03:51 PM
She has never been tried for murder so she has never committed murder in the eyes of the law. I am being a bit of a hypocrite in that I gave OJ the benefit of the doubt, here she has never been more than spoken to about VF.

In short this is me letting that go, she did not murder anybody.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 12:25:36 PM
So Russia has some interesting material on the Donald. The narcissist in chief is not your regular President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 01:39:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 12:25:36 PM
So Russia has some interesting material on the Donald. The narcissist in chief is not your regular President.

I'm hate to disappoint but this is a fake.
It only serves now to make him controversy free.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:00:03 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 01:39:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 12:25:36 PM
So Russia has some interesting material on the Donald. The narcissist in chief is not your regular President.

I'm hate to disappoint but this is a fake.
It only serves now to make him controversy free.

No it doesn't... have you seen his twitter this morning he's blowing a gasket. Good enough for him after his birther shite and questioning Ted Cruz's father's link to the JFK assassination, Clinton being linked to murders etc.

What's good for the goose!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2017, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 01:39:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 12:25:36 PM
So Russia has some interesting material on the Donald. The narcissist in chief is not your regular President.

I'm hate to disappoint but this is a fake.
It only serves now to make him controversy free.

What's fake?

That he and Obama were briefed by intelligence that they are looking into reports that Russia had compromising info, or that Russia had compromising info?

Trump could clear a lot of shit up by releasing his tax returns and getting rid if his business conflicts of interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 02:14:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:00:03 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 01:39:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 12:25:36 PM
So Russia has some interesting material on the Donald. The narcissist in chief is not your regular President.

I'm hate to disappoint but this is a fake.
It only serves now to make him controversy free.

No it doesn't... have you seen his twitter this morning he's blowing a gasket. Good enough for him after his birther shite and questioning Ted Cruz's father's link to the JFK assassination, Clinton being linked to murders etc.

What's good for the goose!!!

No, i didn't see his twitter account. I don't have confidence in it as a source of information.

Yes, after all that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 02:16:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 02:08:49 PM

What's fake?

That he and Obama were briefed by intelligence that they are looking into reports that Russia had compromising info, or that Russia had compromising info?

Trump could clear a lot of shit up by releasing his tax returns and getting rid if his business conflicts of interest.

That there was info to be had and that Russia had it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:33:00 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 02:14:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:00:03 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 01:39:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 12:25:36 PM
So Russia has some interesting material on the Donald. The narcissist in chief is not your regular President.

I'm hate to disappoint but this is a fake.
It only serves now to make him controversy free.

No it doesn't... have you seen his twitter this morning he's blowing a gasket. Good enough for him after his birther shite and questioning Ted Cruz's father's link to the JFK assassination, Clinton being linked to murders etc.

What's good for the goose!!!

No, i didn't see his twitter account. I don't have confidence in it as a source of information.

Yes, after all that.

Donald Trump's twitter account is verified as his own and he has confirmed it is his own so it is an extremely valid source of information to that end!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2017, 02:36:21 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 02:14:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:00:03 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 01:39:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 12:25:36 PM
So Russia has some interesting material on the Donald. The narcissist in chief is not your regular President.

I'm hate to disappoint but this is a fake.
It only serves now to make him controversy free.

No it doesn't... have you seen his twitter this morning he's blowing a gasket. Good enough for him after his birther shite and questioning Ted Cruz's father's link to the JFK assassination, Clinton being linked to murders etc.

What's good for the goose!!!

No, i didn't see his twitter account. I don't have confidence in it as a source of information.

Yes, after all that.
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 02:16:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 02:08:49 PM

What's fake?

That he and Obama were briefed by intelligence that they are looking into reports that Russia had compromising info, or that Russia had compromising info?

Trump could clear a lot of shit up by releasing his tax returns and getting rid if his business conflicts of interest.

That there was info to be had and that Russia had it.

How do you know?

I've no way of knowing either way, but the intelligence agencies were supposedly concerned enough to tell him and Obama they were looking into it.

Like I said, a bit of transparency from Trump would go a long way. They've previously acknowledged a lot of business entanglements with the Russians.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:33:00 PM

Donald Trump's twitter account is verified as his own and he has confirmed it is his own so it is an extremely valid source of information to that end!!!

It's an extremely valuable tool for Trump beating lots of nails in 40 characters or less.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 02:36:21 PM


How do you know?

I've no way of knowing either way, but the intelligence agencies were supposedly concerned enough to tell him and Obama they were looking into it.

Like I said, a bit of transparency from Trump would go a long way. They've previously acknowledged a lot of business entanglements with the Russians.

I don't know really i'm just forming an opinion from the info i've seen.

I suppose that's their job. Potential scandal for the President and President elect and they inform them. I'd say it's common.
Business men do business. What the issue there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:45:21 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 02:36:21 PM


How do you know?

I've no way of knowing either way, but the intelligence agencies were supposedly concerned enough to tell him and Obama they were looking into it.

Like I said, a bit of transparency from Trump would go a long way. They've previously acknowledged a lot of business entanglements with the Russians.

I don't know really i'm just forming an opinion from the info i've seen.

I suppose that's their job. Potential scandal for the President and President elect and they inform them. I'd say it's common.
Business men do business. What the issue there?

He's not a business man anymore... at least he's not supposed to be!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 11, 2017, 03:05:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:45:21 PMHe's not a business man anymore... at least he's not supposed to be!!!

He's in the business of Making American Great Again  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 03:35:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 11, 2017, 03:05:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:45:21 PMHe's not a business man anymore... at least he's not supposed to be!!!

He's in the business of Making American Great Again  :P

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmzQz4EMY6IvkD32yLqLkGBk2UOKGHiPAA7pIIojSWcSj_Tmw4ms2s8yg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2017, 04:28:09 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 02:36:21 PM


How do you know?

I've no way of knowing either way, but the intelligence agencies were supposedly concerned enough to tell him and Obama they were looking into it.

Like I said, a bit of transparency from Trump would go a long way. They've previously acknowledged a lot of business entanglements with the Russians.

I don't know really i'm just forming an opinion from the info i've seen.

I suppose that's their job. Potential scandal for the President and President elect and they inform them. I'd say it's common.
Business men do business. What the issue there?

Seriously?

Conflicts of interest.

What happens if he has to make a decision which is influenced by one of his or his family's business interests?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 04:28:09 PM

Seriously?

Conflicts of interest.

What happens if he has to make a decision which is influenced by one of his or his family's business interests?

He's not the President.

So what if he's influenced. It happens all the time. That's why we have lobbyists and why we have systems of accountability and separation of powers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2017, 05:47:08 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 04:28:09 PM

Seriously?

Conflicts of interest.

What happens if he has to make a decision which is influenced by one of his or his family's business interests?

He's not the President.

So what if he's influenced. It happens all the time. That's why we have lobbyists and why we have systems of accountability and separation of powers.

So you're ok with a country's leader potentially placing the needs of his personal fortune and finances above what is best for the country?

You have trust in the GOP-controlled congress as watchdogs?

There's a reason why past presidents have placed their business interests into blind trusts. Trumps refuses to do this and to cut any ties, beyond turning the management over to his kids (reconfirmed mere minutes ago).

This all from a man who was campaigned on corruption and "draining the swamp" (yes, I know it was cynicism on his part).

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 05:58:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 05:47:08 PM

So you're ok with a country's leader potentially placing the needs of his personal fortune and finances above what is best for the country?

You have trust in the GOP-controlled congress as watchdogs?

There's a reason why past presidents have placed their business interests into blind trusts. Trumps refuses to do this and to cut any ties, beyond turning the management over to his kids (reconfirmed mere minutes ago).

This all from a man who was campaigned on corruption and "draining the swamp" (yes, I know it was cynicism on his part).

I'm not happy or sad about it. I don't assume he will do that. I respect the outcome of the vote and the political institutions in the USA. I understand the possibility there is for corruption. There is nothing new here. Every leader of ever Country has the potential to put the needs of their personal wealth first.
There is nothing new in friends and family of Presidents having private interests. There is nothing new in Presidents working after they retire from the White House. And there's certainly nothing new in someone campaigning on one thing and doing another.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:25:28 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 05:58:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 05:47:08 PM

So you're ok with a country's leader potentially placing the needs of his personal fortune and finances above what is best for the country?

You have trust in the GOP-controlled congress as watchdogs?

There's a reason why past presidents have placed their business interests into blind trusts. Trumps refuses to do this and to cut any ties, beyond turning the management over to his kids (reconfirmed mere minutes ago).

This all from a man who was campaigned on corruption and "draining the swamp" (yes, I know it was cynicism on his part).

I'm not happy or sad about it. I don't assume he will do that. I respect the outcome of the vote and the political institutions in the USA. I understand the possibility there is for corruption. There is nothing new here. Every leader of ever Country has the potential to put the needs of their personal wealth first.
There is nothing new in friends and family of Presidents having private interests. There is nothing new in Presidents working after they retire from the White House. And there's certainly nothing new in someone campaigning on one thing and doing another.

What is new is the refusal of the president to put his direct personal financial interests off the table. What is fairly new is the deep and bitter partisanship in DC and the country in general. Sure, lone GOP voices like McCain or Graham might raise concerns about something Trump is doing, but if you think Trump is going to be subject to even a small fraction of the oversight that the GOP gave to, say, Hillary Clinton, you're deluded.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:25:28 PM


What is new is the refusal of the president to put his direct personal financial interests off the table. What is fairly new is the deep and bitter partisanship in DC and the country in general. Sure, lone GOP voices like McCain or Graham might raise concerns about something Trump is doing, but if you think Trump is going to be subject to even a small fraction of the oversight that the GOP gave to, say, Hillary Clinton, you're deluded.

Meh, that's the new birth certificate scandal as far as I care.

Oversight? It's a fecking democracy. That's how it works. Same as was here. We have a massive FG LB Gov and they also controlled the councils and the senate. FG had also the support of the richest man in Ireland. I hated that but I put up with it as that's how it was. We had our choice and we made it.

I've no time for Donald Trump, same as the next man. But I do think he is held to a different standard by the international community.
Maybe I am deluded, I don't know how to counter that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:25:28 PM


What is new is the refusal of the president to put his direct personal financial interests off the table. What is fairly new is the deep and bitter partisanship in DC and the country in general. Sure, lone GOP voices like McCain or Graham might raise concerns about something Trump is doing, but if you think Trump is going to be subject to even a small fraction of the oversight that the GOP gave to, say, Hillary Clinton, you're deluded.

Meh, that's the new birth certificate scandal as far as I care.

Oversight? It's a fecking democracy. That's how it works. Same as was here. We have a massive FG LB Gov and they also controlled the councils and the senate. FG had also the support of the richest man in Ireland. I hated that but I put up with it as that's how it was. We had our choice and we made it.

I've no time for Donald Trump, same as the next man. But I do think he is held to a different standard by the international community.

Just because YOU don't care doesn't mean it's not a concern. And what standard is he being held to that his predecessors have not?

And I'm not arguing against the GOP controlling congress and the White House. I'm saying that Trump is refusing to take the normal measures that presidents do to avoid ethical problems and conflicts of interest, and that because of the GOP control, the checks and balances to counter or examine any issues may not exist. Which makes what he is doing even more of a concern.

The birth certificate was a baseless, paranoid, conspiracy theory. This issue is merely asking that Trump do what his predecessors did and leave his personal financial and business considerations outside the door when he has to make decisions on behalf of his constituents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2017, 07:14:45 PM
I do see, however, where someone might dismiss this due to cynicism about money and influence in the entire American political process, especially in the aftermath of Citizens United. Basically, if they're going to line the pockets or look after the interests of donors, then why does themselves and their family matter?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2017, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Meh, that's the new birth certificate scandal as far as I care.

Sweet Jesus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 11, 2017, 08:42:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:25:28 PM


What is new is the refusal of the president to put his direct personal financial interests off the table. What is fairly new is the deep and bitter partisanship in DC and the country in general. Sure, lone GOP voices like McCain or Graham might raise concerns about something Trump is doing, but if you think Trump is going to be subject to even a small fraction of the oversight that the GOP gave to, say, Hillary Clinton, you're deluded.

Meh, that's the new birth certificate scandal as far as I care.

Oversight? It's a fecking democracy. That's how it works. Same as was here. We have a massive FG LB Gov and they also controlled the councils and the senate. FG had also the support of the richest man in Ireland. I hated that but I put up with it as that's how it was. We had our choice and we made it.

I've no time for Donald Trump, same as the next man. But I do think he is held to a different standard by the international community.

Just because YOU don't care doesn't mean it's not a concern. And what standard is he being held to that his predecessors have not?

And I'm not arguing against the GOP controlling congress and the White House. I'm saying that Trump is refusing to take the normal measures that presidents do to avoid ethical problems and conflicts of interest, and that because of the GOP control, the checks and balances to counter or examine any issues may not exist. Which makes what he is doing even more of a concern.

The birth certificate was a baseless, paranoid, conspiracy theory. This issue is merely asking that Trump do what his predecessors did and leave his personal financial and business considerations outside the door when he has to make decisions on behalf of his constituents.

I love the new found fascination with ethics and conflicts of interests........where was that same concern when the Clintons were lining their pockets?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/27/memo-shows-bill-clintons-wealth-tied-clinton-foundation/92842822/


Band wrote. "I could add 500 different examples of things like this."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 11, 2017, 08:59:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 11, 2017, 08:42:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:25:28 PM


What is new is the refusal of the president to put his direct personal financial interests off the table. What is fairly new is the deep and bitter partisanship in DC and the country in general. Sure, lone GOP voices like McCain or Graham might raise concerns about something Trump is doing, but if you think Trump is going to be subject to even a small fraction of the oversight that the GOP gave to, say, Hillary Clinton, you're deluded.

Meh, that's the new birth certificate scandal as far as I care.

Oversight? It's a fecking democracy. That's how it works. Same as was here. We have a massive FG LB Gov and they also controlled the councils and the senate. FG had also the support of the richest man in Ireland. I hated that but I put up with it as that's how it was. We had our choice and we made it.

I've no time for Donald Trump, same as the next man. But I do think he is held to a different standard by the international community.

Just because YOU don't care doesn't mean it's not a concern. And what standard is he being held to that his predecessors have not?

And I'm not arguing against the GOP controlling congress and the White House. I'm saying that Trump is refusing to take the normal measures that presidents do to avoid ethical problems and conflicts of interest, and that because of the GOP control, the checks and balances to counter or examine any issues may not exist. Which makes what he is doing even more of a concern.

The birth certificate was a baseless, paranoid, conspiracy theory. This issue is merely asking that Trump do what his predecessors did and leave his personal financial and business considerations outside the door when he has to make decisions on behalf of his constituents.

I love the new found fascination with ethics and conflicts of interests........where was that same concern when the Clintons were lining their pockets?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/27/memo-shows-bill-clintons-wealth-tied-clinton-foundation/92842822/


Band wrote. "I could add 500 different examples of things like this."

Hillary Clinton will be going back to her speeches and trying to recover her server, what is that to do with Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 11, 2017, 09:11:18 PM
whoever owns buzzfeed the website that published the story about trump and hookers better have some deep pockets or excellent attorneys when the Donald comes after them , btw ithe website was started by former huffington post people and has huge investments from NBC its no wonder no one believes a word that CNN , NBC  say or publish .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 11, 2017, 11:00:38 PM
Yeah, they'll be terrified of yet another Trump lawsuit. He never fucks up about how he loves to sue people. Conveniently never bothered to tell you if he won the suits or not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2017, 11:46:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 11, 2017, 08:42:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:25:28 PM


What is new is the refusal of the president to put his direct personal financial interests off the table. What is fairly new is the deep and bitter partisanship in DC and the country in general. Sure, lone GOP voices like McCain or Graham might raise concerns about something Trump is doing, but if you think Trump is going to be subject to even a small fraction of the oversight that the GOP gave to, say, Hillary Clinton, you're deluded.

Meh, that's the new birth certificate scandal as far as I care.

Oversight? It's a fecking democracy. That's how it works. Same as was here. We have a massive FG LB Gov and they also controlled the councils and the senate. FG had also the support of the richest man in Ireland. I hated that but I put up with it as that's how it was. We had our choice and we made it.

I've no time for Donald Trump, same as the next man. But I do think he is held to a different standard by the international community.

Just because YOU don't care doesn't mean it's not a concern. And what standard is he being held to that his predecessors have not?

And I'm not arguing against the GOP controlling congress and the White House. I'm saying that Trump is refusing to take the normal measures that presidents do to avoid ethical problems and conflicts of interest, and that because of the GOP control, the checks and balances to counter or examine any issues may not exist. Which makes what he is doing even more of a concern.

The birth certificate was a baseless, paranoid, conspiracy theory. This issue is merely asking that Trump do what his predecessors did and leave his personal financial and business considerations outside the door when he has to make decisions on behalf of his constituents.

I love the new found fascination with ethics and conflicts of interests........where was that same concern when the Clintons were lining their pockets?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/27/memo-shows-bill-clintons-wealth-tied-clinton-foundation/92842822/


Band wrote. "I could add 500 different examples of things like this."

As I recall, you were one of the people making a big clamour over the Clintons.

So why are you not expressing concern over Trump, especially given that the risks are being flagged, and brazenly dismissed, before he's even taken office?

And do you not think Trump's circle are getting ready to cash in, just like the Clintons allegedly did, as we speak? Are the likes of Lewandowski setting up blocks from the White House for the good of their health?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2017, 12:08:37 AM
Trump saying the media are like something out of Nazi Germany - and by association automatically calling John McCain, the FBI and the CIA "Nazis" - lolzers.  ;D

The far right really need to stop calling their opponents "Nazis" and "fascists".

Constantly throwing out the same old tired "Nazi" and "fascist" insults means they lose all meaning and people just consider you an idiot.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 12, 2017, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2017, 12:08:37 AM
Trump saying the media are like something out of Nazi Germany - and by association automatically calling John McCain, the FBI and the CIA "Nazis" - lolzers.  ;D

The far right really need to stop calling their opponents "Nazis" and "fascists".

Constantly throwing out the same old tired "Nazi" and "fascist" insults means they lose all meaning and people just consider you an idiot.
i thought the liberals were calling trump and supporters nazis and a fascists?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2017, 12:43:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 11:46:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 11, 2017, 08:42:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:25:28 PM


What is new is the refusal of the president to put his direct personal financial interests off the table. What is fairly new is the deep and bitter partisanship in DC and the country in general. Sure, lone GOP voices like McCain or Graham might raise concerns about something Trump is doing, but if you think Trump is going to be subject to even a small fraction of the oversight that the GOP gave to, say, Hillary Clinton, you're deluded.

Meh, that's the new birth certificate scandal as far as I care.

Oversight? It's a fecking democracy. That's how it works. Same as was here. We have a massive FG LB Gov and they also controlled the councils and the senate. FG had also the support of the richest man in Ireland. I hated that but I put up with it as that's how it was. We had our choice and we made it.

I've no time for Donald Trump, same as the next man. But I do think he is held to a different standard by the international community.

Just because YOU don't care doesn't mean it's not a concern. And what standard is he being held to that his predecessors have not?

And I'm not arguing against the GOP controlling congress and the White House. I'm saying that Trump is refusing to take the normal measures that presidents do to avoid ethical problems and conflicts of interest, and that because of the GOP control, the checks and balances to counter or examine any issues may not exist. Which makes what he is doing even more of a concern.

The birth certificate was a baseless, paranoid, conspiracy theory. This issue is merely asking that Trump do what his predecessors did and leave his personal financial and business considerations outside the door when he has to make decisions on behalf of his constituents.

I love the new found fascination with ethics and conflicts of interests........where was that same concern when the Clintons were lining their pockets?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/27/memo-shows-bill-clintons-wealth-tied-clinton-foundation/92842822/


Band wrote. "I could add 500 different examples of things like this."

As I recall, you were one of the people making a big clamour over the Clintons.

So why are you not expressing concern over Trump, especially given that the risks are being flagged, and brazenly dismissed, before he's even taken office?

And do you not think Trump's circle are getting ready to cash in, just like the Clintons allegedly did, as we speak? Are the likes of Lewandowski setting up blocks from the White House for the good of their health?

Oh I think it's disgraceful. I'm confounded by your newly found outrage......you didn't see to give a $hit when it was the Clintons
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2017, 12:44:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 12, 2017, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2017, 12:08:37 AM
Trump saying the media are like something out of Nazi Germany - and by association automatically calling John McCain, the FBI and the CIA "Nazis" - lolzers.  ;D

The far right really need to stop calling their opponents "Nazis" and "fascists".

Constantly throwing out the same old tired "Nazi" and "fascist" insults means they lose all meaning and people just consider you an idiot.
i thought the liberals were calling trump and supporters nazis and a fascists?
Trump and Trump supporters rightly get called Nazis and fascists because they exhibit clear and consistent patterns of behaviour and rhetoric consistent with those ideologies, such as threatening to deport 11 million people in the biggest forced mass mobilisation of "others" since the Holocaust, banning immigration of people of a certain religion, threatening to lock up political opponents, making thinly veiled assassination threats on political opponents, widespread hate crimes after the election, vilifying disabled people, vilifying others for "taking their jobs", vilifying everybody who doesn't agree with them, really. Oh, and having an actual neo-Nazi rally in Washington in celebration of Trump's election.

What's right-wingers' excuse for calling others "Nazis" and "fascists", given that those they seek to vilify qualify for such labelling under precisely no criteria?

Laziness or just terminal stupidity?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2017, 01:00:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2017, 12:43:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 11:46:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 11, 2017, 08:42:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2017, 06:25:28 PM


What is new is the refusal of the president to put his direct personal financial interests off the table. What is fairly new is the deep and bitter partisanship in DC and the country in general. Sure, lone GOP voices like McCain or Graham might raise concerns about something Trump is doing, but if you think Trump is going to be subject to even a small fraction of the oversight that the GOP gave to, say, Hillary Clinton, you're deluded.

Meh, that's the new birth certificate scandal as far as I care.

Oversight? It's a fecking democracy. That's how it works. Same as was here. We have a massive FG LB Gov and they also controlled the councils and the senate. FG had also the support of the richest man in Ireland. I hated that but I put up with it as that's how it was. We had our choice and we made it.

I've no time for Donald Trump, same as the next man. But I do think he is held to a different standard by the international community.

Just because YOU don't care doesn't mean it's not a concern. And what standard is he being held to that his predecessors have not?

And I'm not arguing against the GOP controlling congress and the White House. I'm saying that Trump is refusing to take the normal measures that presidents do to avoid ethical problems and conflicts of interest, and that because of the GOP control, the checks and balances to counter or examine any issues may not exist. Which makes what he is doing even more of a concern.

The birth certificate was a baseless, paranoid, conspiracy theory. This issue is merely asking that Trump do what his predecessors did and leave his personal financial and business considerations outside the door when he has to make decisions on behalf of his constituents.

I love the new found fascination with ethics and conflicts of interests........where was that same concern when the Clintons were lining their pockets?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/27/memo-shows-bill-clintons-wealth-tied-clinton-foundation/92842822/


Band wrote. "I could add 500 different examples of things like this."

As I recall, you were one of the people making a big clamour over the Clintons.

So why are you not expressing concern over Trump, especially given that the risks are being flagged, and brazenly dismissed, before he's even taken office?

And do you not think Trump's circle are getting ready to cash in, just like the Clintons allegedly did, as we speak? Are the likes of Lewandowski setting up blocks from the White House for the good of their health?

Oh I think it's disgraceful. I'm confounded by your newly found outrage......you didn't see to give a $hit when it was the Clintons

That's not true.

You were arguing against Clinton on the basis of corruption. I was pointing out that Trump had a very checkered history, with admissions, even boasts, of buying off of politicians, and was likely to be just as corrupt.

I've also said many times that my choice of vote was not based on ethics, as I generally assume the worst with politicians, but on policy.

Nevertheless, I don't ever recall a man yet to take power, like Trump, with so many red flags with respect to corruption and conflict of interest. 

And please quit with the "outrage" horseshit - Trump is the one who ran on a campaign of anti-corruption and "draining the swamp". Its hardly overreacting or expressing outrage to point out the bleeding obvious in a discussion of US politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2017, 01:08:13 AM
How many convictions does Trump have for bribery or corruption after 40+ years doing business in some of the most corrupt (and Democratic) districts in the country

Never mind convictions ......how many times has he been brought up on charges?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2017, 05:16:24 AM
Trump is so out of his depth. He just wants people to look at him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2017, 08:03:05 AM
Trump ranting about fake news. There was a candidate also called Trump who tweeted that Alicia Menendez had a sex video.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 12, 2017, 09:52:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 11, 2017, 09:11:18 PM
whoever owns buzzfeed the website that published the story about trump and hookers better have some deep pockets or excellent attorneys when the Donald comes after them , btw ithe website was started by former huffington post people and has huge investments from NBC its no wonder no one believes a word that CNN , NBC  say or publish .

There's no way buzzfeed would have posted that without all the correct disclaimers. . . if he was suing them we would have heard by now!!

Also libel in the US is very easy to skirt around which is why Trump constantly talked on his campaign about "opening up those libel laws". It'll be interested.

His behaviour at the Presser yesterday was laughable though. Yes we believe that you are in talks with Mexico about them paying for "the fence-it's not a fence, it's a wall" after it's built... good one  ;) ;)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2017, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2017, 01:08:13 AM
How many convictions does Trump have for bribery or corruption after 40+ years doing business in some of the most corrupt (and Democratic) districts in the country

Never mind convictions ......how many times has he been brought up on charges?

How many does Clinton have?

Trump openly boasted about using donations to get his way, saying there was no one better than him to combat the practice given his expertise and experience. And that's just his own testimony.

He is plainly a believer in rich people using money to buy favours and influence in government. And now he won't do what his predecessors have done to divest of his holdings and possible conflicts of interest. He refuses to be transparent about his taxes and businesses. Doesn't take much maths to figure out where this could lead.

You said yourself it was disgraceful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2017, 11:15:44 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 12, 2017, 09:52:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 11, 2017, 09:11:18 PM
whoever owns buzzfeed the website that published the story about trump and hookers better have some deep pockets or excellent attorneys when the Donald comes after them , btw ithe website was started by former huffington post people and has huge investments from NBC its no wonder no one believes a word that CNN , NBC  say or publish .

There's no way buzzfeed would have posted that without all the correct disclaimers. . . if he was suing them we would have heard by now!!

Also libel in the US is very easy to skirt around which is why Trump constantly talked on his campaign about "opening up those libel laws". It'll be interested.

His behaviour at the Presser yesterday was laughable though. Yes we believe that you are in talks with Mexico about them paying for "the fence-it's not a fence, it's a wall" after it's built... good one  ;) ;)

Just last week he had new information to reveal on the Russian hacking which would cast doubt of the conclusions of the intelligence agencies. Now he admits they're involved.

Just like his detectives were discovering 'unbelievable things" on their Hawaiian birth cert hunt (still waiting for them to be revealed!).

Or the press conference his wife was going to give to address questions about her visa situation 20 years ago. Didn't happen.

It's basically anything to distract in the moment and then hope everyone forgets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2017, 12:38:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2017, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2017, 01:08:13 AM
How many convictions does Trump have for bribery or corruption after 40+ years doing business in some of the most corrupt (and Democratic) districts in the country

Never mind convictions ......how many times has he been brought up on charges?

How many does Clinton have?

Trump openly boasted about using donations to get his way, saying there was no one better than him to combat the practice given his expertise and experience. And that's just his own testimony.

He is plainly a believer in rich people using money to buy favours and influence in government. And now he won't do what his predecessors have done to divest of his holdings and possible conflicts of interest. He refuses to be transparent about his taxes and businesses. Doesn't take much maths to figure out where this could lead.

You said yourself it was disgraceful.

So you don't have a problem with the Clintons personally enriching themselves to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars  while peddling access while Hillary was Sec of State? (

One of their closest aides and the top guy at the Clinton Foundation said in writing that there were about 500 potential conflicts of interest with the  Clinton Foundation

Dems now have their hair on fire about "potential" Trump conflicts of interest while completely ignoring "actual" conflicts of interest with the Clintons

Selective outrage at its finest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2017, 01:21:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2017, 12:38:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2017, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2017, 01:08:13 AM
How many convictions does Trump have for bribery or corruption after 40+ years doing business in some of the most corrupt (and Democratic) districts in the country

Never mind convictions ......how many times has he been brought up on charges?

How many does Clinton have?

Trump openly boasted about using donations to get his way, saying there was no one better than him to combat the practice given his expertise and experience. And that's just his own testimony.

He is plainly a believer in rich people using money to buy favours and influence in government. And now he won't do what his predecessors have done to divest of his holdings and possible conflicts of interest. He refuses to be transparent about his taxes and businesses. Doesn't take much maths to figure out where this could lead.

You said yourself it was disgraceful.

So you don't have a problem with the Clintons personally enriching themselves to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars  while peddling access while Hillary was Sec of State? (

One of their closest aides and the top guy at the Clinton Foundation said in writing that there were about 500 potential conflicts of interest with the  Clinton Foundation

Dems now have their hair on fire about "potential" Trump conflicts of interest while completely ignoring "actual" conflicts of interest with the Clintons

Selective outrage at its finest

I've already explained the distinction, but you seem to be missing it. (And stop trying to put words in my mouth)

I voted for Clinton despite the allegations, given the alternative and based on policies (and there was only a choice of him or her). Their foundation had already said it would no longer accept foreign or corporate donations if she became president. While Trump had an admitted history of corrupting the political process. I didn't choose Hillary because she was less corrupt. I chose and argued for her because she by far the more palatable and serious of two poor candidates with questionable ethics and possible histories of corruption.

And given your seemingly obsessive compulsion to cry "outrage" at every post, Trump himself continually railed against "crooked Hillary", pay for play, and corruption of the Clinton Foundation. It was a decisive factor in his election.

But now, after all that, he is brazenly saying "f**k you, I'll do what I want and there's nothing you can do about it" to similar concerns about conflicts of interest. At least her foundation made pledges that conflicts of interest would be eliminated.

So it is perfectly valid to discuss that he is setting things up to potentially put his personal business over the interests of the country given that he was elected after a scorched earth campaign based partly on ridding D.C. of precisely that. It is perfectly valid that the people and press hold him to the same standard that Hillary was held to (including by him) and which helped doom her campaign.

I'm not "outraged". I expected nothing less. Those who voted for him to "drain the swamp" in the other hand...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on January 12, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
I don't think we would be in good shape whoever won.  Not accepting donations from people who have funded you for years just because you are Presitdent doesn't mean their influence goes away J70 - lets be honest here. She wouldn't have been good for the country - its why she lost and Trump won. I don't think he won because people think he is great  - the democrats put forward their worst candidate and lost.

So instead of arguing back and forth American citizens and us Eireannach living over here need to focus on local government surely? If the politicial system was working properly here the POTUS shouldn't have all the power. Work at the local level, then the state level and change what you can instead of everyone pouring energy in to arguing over he said she said..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2017, 02:02:31 PM
Iceman, there's degrees of "not being in good shape"!

And the fact is that the president DOES have a lot of power. And there are a lot of things that NEED to be addressed at a federal level. Environmental issues don't begin and end at state borders. Neither does the need for people to be allowed to live respectable, dignified lives.

But yes, of course a lot can be done at local and state level. The actions of a lot of cities on climate change and LBGT stuff being obvious examples.

On the donations, yes, fair point, but does that mean there should be NO oversight or standards or expectations?

I'm all for limiting campaign spending and strict oversight of influence, but there's no prospect of that ever happening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 12, 2017, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 12, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
I don't think we would be in good shape whoever won.  Not accepting donations from people who have funded you for years just because you are Presitdent doesn't mean their influence goes away J70 - lets be honest here. She wouldn't have been good for the country - its why she lost and Trump won. I don't think he won because people think he is great  - the democrats put forward their worst candidate and lost.

So instead of arguing back and forth American citizens and us Eireannach living over here need to focus on local government surely? If the politicial system was working properly here the POTUS shouldn't have all the power. Work at the local level, then the state level and change what you can instead of everyone pouring energy in to arguing over he said she said..

What democrat candidate would have beaten Trump? More to the point will any democrat candidate be able to stop him from becoming re-elected in 4 years time?

This is not that I think Trump is great he is arguably the biggest buffoon to walk into the Whitehouse however it's his online campaign to paint his candidates in the worst possible light and the now obvious help from the Russians that has his president in a few a few weeks and for the next 8 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2017, 03:32:45 PM
Joe Biden would have beaten Trump in a second.  He was on Morning Joe during the Democratic Convention warning that the Democrats were ignoring the issues that were most important to working Americans.  Instead Hillary and her campaign pandered almost exclusively to the socially progressive wing of the party. She had plenty to say about transgender bathrooms and climate change but fvck all to say about jobs or how she would fix healthcare
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2017, 03:56:10 PM
Seriously whitey?? ;D

I guess she wasn't making shit up about trade wars bringing factories back and that repealing Obamacare with some as yet undetermined replacement would solve these issues, but just because the entire campaign season was consumed with emails, pussy-grabbing and "build the wall" doesn't mean that Hillary was not addressing those issues.

As for Biden... who knows? He never got much traction before and the GOP machine never went to work on him (same with Bernie).

Lots of candidates are good in theory. Actually running is another thing. Ask the GOP "deep bench". Giuliani in 2008. Hillary in 2008.

Anyway, it's all academic.

We have our president-elect, warts, orange hair, twitter account, thin skin, conflicts of interest and all.  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2017, 04:32:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2017, 03:56:10 PM
Seriously whitey?? ;D

I guess she wasn't making shit up about trade wars bringing factories back and that repealing Obamacare with some as yet undetermined replacement would solve these issues, but just because the entire campaign season was consumed with emails, pussy-grabbing and "build the wall" doesn't mean that Hillary was not addressing those issues.

As for Biden... who knows? He never got much traction before and the GOP machine never went to work on him (same with Bernie).

Lots of candidates are good in theory. Actually running is another thing. Ask the GOP "deep bench". Giuliani in 2008. Hillary in 2008.

Anyway, it's all academic.

We have our president-elect, warts, orange hair, twitter account, thin skin, conflicts of interest and all.  :P

Whether you believe him or not is besides the point....enough swing voters in enough swing states did, and that's what got him elected. He constantly addressed the issue and made it one of the main components of his message.......she didn't!


And even if she did, nobody would believe her anyway because she is a proven Liar
who will say anything to get elected



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2017, 04:38:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2017, 04:32:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2017, 03:56:10 PM
Seriously whitey?? ;D

I guess she wasn't making shit up about trade wars bringing factories back and that repealing Obamacare with some as yet undetermined replacement would solve these issues, but just because the entire campaign season was consumed with emails, pussy-grabbing and "build the wall" doesn't mean that Hillary was not addressing those issues.

As for Biden... who knows? He never got much traction before and the GOP machine never went to work on him (same with Bernie).

Lots of candidates are good in theory. Actually running is another thing. Ask the GOP "deep bench". Giuliani in 2008. Hillary in 2008.

Anyway, it's all academic.

We have our president-elect, warts, orange hair, twitter account, thin skin, conflicts of interest and all.  :P

Whether you believe him or not is besides the point....enough swing voters in enough swing states did, and that's what got him elected. He constantly addressed the issue and made it one of the main components of his message.......she didn't!


And even if she did, nobody would believe her anyway because she is a proven Liar
who will say anything to get elected

I think his proven track record of bullshit and lies FAR exceeds that of Hillary or any other person who ran, ever, never mind won.

Of all the sticks you could use to beat Hillary with in comparison to Trump, lying is by far the most ridiculous!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2017, 04:45:33 PM
Where did I ever say Trump was honest ....I said he addresssed the issue (i.e. Told people what they wanted to hear)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 12, 2017, 05:01:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2017, 04:38:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2017, 04:32:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2017, 03:56:10 PM
Seriously whitey?? ;D

I guess she wasn't making shit up about trade wars bringing factories back and that repealing Obamacare with some as yet undetermined replacement would solve these issues, but just because the entire campaign season was consumed with emails, pussy-grabbing and "build the wall" doesn't mean that Hillary was not addressing those issues.

As for Biden... who knows? He never got much traction before and the GOP machine never went to work on him (same with Bernie).

Lots of candidates are good in theory. Actually running is another thing. Ask the GOP "deep bench". Giuliani in 2008. Hillary in 2008.

Anyway, it's all academic.

We have our president-elect, warts, orange hair, twitter account, thin skin, conflicts of interest and all.  :P

Whether you believe him or not is besides the point....enough swing voters in enough swing states did, and that's what got him elected. He constantly addressed the issue and made it one of the main components of his message.......she didn't!


And even if she did, nobody would believe her anyway because she is a proven Liar
who will say anything to get elected

I think his proven track record of bullshit and lies FAR exceeds that of Hillary or any other person who ran, ever, never mind won.

Of all the sticks you could use to beat Hillary with in comparison to Trump, lying is by far the most ridiculous!

Trump I believe said many years ago if he ever ran for president he would run as republican as they are the easiest to lie to and would believe anything you tell them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2017, 05:14:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2017, 04:45:33 PM
Where did I ever say Trump was honest ....I said he addresssed the issue (i.e. Told people what they wanted to hear)

You said no one would believe her even if she did address jobs because she is a "proven liar who will say anything to get elected", yet you said enough swing state voters DID believe HIM, who is one the biggest liars and chancers ever to come on the scene.

Was "proven liar" not the distinction between the two?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2017, 07:33:27 PM
They're both liars, he just addressed the issues that were more important to the swing voters than she did (even though he was probably lying while addressing them)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 12, 2017, 02:53:20 PM
What democrat candidate would have beaten Trump?

Bernie Sanders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on January 13, 2017, 02:01:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 12, 2017, 02:53:20 PM
What democrat candidate would have beaten Trump?

Bernie Sanders.

Nah. He would have been targeted in a different way. labelling him as liberal and socialist would have nailed him on the runway. He would have been spun as soft on terrorism, migrants, etc. All those red counties in all those states would still have gone with Trump. The U.S. deserve their new President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 13, 2017, 04:52:58 AM
What a coincidence. China waited until just before Trump got in before winding up good old Rex.
Sabre rattling?
Brush up on nuclear strategies Rex. Brilliant!

Hows the buyer's remorse? 37% approval
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 08:03:37 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 13, 2017, 04:52:58 AM
What a coincidence. China waited until just before Trump got in before winding up good old Rex.
Sabre rattling?
Brush up on nuclear strategies Rex. Brilliant!

Hows the buyer's remorse? 37% approval
Must be the lowest approval ever for an incoming President
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 13, 2017, 09:52:48 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2017, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Meh, that's the new birth certificate scandal as far as I care.

Sweet Jesus.

It was used to claim technically Obama was not fit for office until something stupid was proven. This is being used to make the same claim. It's an old trick that comes up all the time. There is no issue with Trumps finance that wasn't there for everyone else. Does anyone think the Bush family in the Oil trade did not have an impact on his decisions?

It's almost refreshing to see him do it. We know money is an issue for everyone in office. Decisions are made based on someones money, maybe now we know it's Trumps money rather than someone we never heard of. It's how it works.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magpie seanie on January 13, 2017, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: moysider on January 13, 2017, 02:01:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 12, 2017, 02:53:20 PM
What democrat candidate would have beaten Trump?

Bernie Sanders.

Nah. He would have been targeted in a different way. labelling him as liberal and socialist would have nailed him on the runway. He would have been spun as soft on terrorism, migrants, etc. All those red counties in all those states would still have gone with Trump. The U.S. deserve their new President.

Sanders would have won in hindsight. So too would Biden. In fact anyone bar Hilary would have won and she should have but her campaign was arrogance personified. That said though I'm convinced that even on results night, Trump and his team thought they wouldn't win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 13, 2017, 11:43:38 AM
QuoteSanders would have won in hindsight. So too would Biden. In fact anyone bar Hilary would have won and she should have but her campaign was arrogance personified

Nah I think Drumpf would have pissed on them all ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on January 13, 2017, 01:02:41 PM
J70 my real point is we can solve nothing here and to try to put that seem energy and passion in to local government would serve us all better.
I genuinely believe anyone else would have beaten trump - I think Bernie or Biden would have beaten him.
I don't know how long Trump will last - theres enough crazies in this country that he could get a .357 delivered at high speed and its President Pence going forward.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2017, 01:17:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 13, 2017, 01:02:41 PM
I don't know how long Trump will last - theres enough crazies in this country that he could get a .357 delivered at high speed and its President Pence going forward.
About 99% of those crazies support Trump, though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 13, 2017, 01:28:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2017, 01:17:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 13, 2017, 01:02:41 PM
I don't know how long Trump will last - theres enough crazies in this country that he could get a .357 delivered at high speed and its President Pence going forward.
About 99% of those crazies support Trump, though.

Elitist!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2017, 01:59:06 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 13, 2017, 01:02:41 PM
J70 my real point is we can solve nothing here and to try to put that seem energy and passion in to local government would serve us all better.
I genuinely believe anyone else would have beaten trump - I think Bernie or Biden would have beaten him.
I don't know how long Trump will last - theres enough crazies in this country that he could get a .357 delivered at high speed and its President Pence going forward.

It's fun and interesting to discuss this stuff. Doesn't mean we can't also support causes and get active in our real lives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on January 13, 2017, 02:10:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2017, 01:59:06 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 13, 2017, 01:02:41 PM
J70 my real point is we can solve nothing here and to try to put that seem energy and passion in to local government would serve us all better.
I genuinely believe anyone else would have beaten trump - I think Bernie or Biden would have beaten him.
I don't know how long Trump will last - theres enough crazies in this country that he could get a .357 delivered at high speed and its President Pence going forward.

It's fun and interesting to discuss this stuff. Doesn't mean we can't also support causes and get active in our real lives.
Interesting choice of words :)
I think the fun often gets taken out of the discussion and this thread especially descends to name calling and insults...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 13, 2017, 02:35:15 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 13, 2017, 01:02:41 PM
J70 my real point is we can solve nothing here and to try to put that seem energy and passion in to local government would serve us all better.
I genuinely believe anyone else would have beaten trump - I think Bernie or Biden would have beaten him.
I don't know how long Trump will last - theres enough crazies in this country that he could get a .357 delivered at high speed and its President Pence going forward.

Same thing was said about Obama. Presidents don't get assassinated anymore. There's that much unity at the top they get bought instead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 13, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
It's hard not to feel happy for Trump now that he's on the receiving end of this fake news (or is it?) considering he didn't call bullshit on any of the stuff he was happy to propagate during the elections.

Interesting times and his actions towards Moscow will be watched with interest now...


All the same the White House staff are readying themselves for his arrival with a new consignment of rubber sheets just in case.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on January 14, 2017, 01:33:00 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 13, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
It's hard not to feel happy for Trump now that he's on the receiving end of this fake news (or is it?) considering he didn't call bullshit on any of the stuff he was happy to propagate during the elections.

Interesting times and his actions towards Moscow will be watched with interest now...


All the same the White House staff are readying themselves for his arrival with a new consignment of rubber sheets just in case.

Trump doesn't give a shite - sorry piss - now!

The Russians and James Comey got him over the line. As is clear from some posters here, misogyny was a factor as well.

I expect Comey will ride off into the sunset now with saddles full of Trump gold. Putin is probably laughing his arse off.  The people of America voted for this privileged, despicable individual and deserve him as a result. Good for them. Unfortunately the rest of the us will have to put up with his whims and ego as well. Even before he becomes President it looks like 'Carry on Trump'.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 14, 2017, 01:55:17 AM
Quote from: moysider on January 14, 2017, 01:33:00 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 13, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
It's hard not to feel happy for Trump now that he's on the receiving end of this fake news (or is it?) considering he didn't call bullshit on any of the stuff he was happy to propagate during the elections.

Interesting times and his actions towards Moscow will be watched with interest now...


All the same the White House staff are readying themselves for his arrival with a new consignment of rubber sheets just in case.

Trump doesn't give a shite - sorry piss - now!

The Russians and James Comey got him over the line. As is clear from some posters here, misogyny was a factor as well.

I expect Comey will ride off into the sunset now with saddles full of Trump gold. Putin is probably laughing his arse off.  The people of America voted for this privileged, despicable individual and deserve him as a result. Good for them. Unfortunately the rest of the us will have to put up with his whims and ego as well. Even before he becomes President it looks like 'Carry on Trump'.

If Comey didnt come public with the fact Hillarys emails were on Weiners laptop, and it came out after the fact that they sat on it, I honestly think people would have taken up arms against the government......and Im not talking about a couple of dozen people. 


Half the fvckin population is armed to the teeth over here, and most of them hate Hillary like people in Ireland hate Enda, just multiply it by anout 1000
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on January 14, 2017, 03:00:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2017, 01:55:17 AM
Quote from: moysider on January 14, 2017, 01:33:00 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 13, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
It's hard not to feel happy for Trump now that he's on the receiving end of this fake news (or is it?) considering he didn't call bullshit on any of the stuff he was happy to propagate during the elections.

Interesting times and his actions towards Moscow will be watched with interest now...


All the same the White House staff are readying themselves for his arrival with a new consignment of rubber sheets just in case.

Trump doesn't give a shite - sorry piss - now!

The Russians and James Comey got him over the line. As is clear from some posters here, misogyny was a factor as well.

I expect Comey will ride off into the sunset now with saddles full of Trump gold. Putin is probably laughing his arse off.  The people of America voted for this privileged, despicable individual and deserve him as a result. Good for them. Unfortunately the rest of the us will have to put up with his whims and ego as well. Even before he becomes President it looks like 'Carry on Trump'.

If Comey didnt come public with the fact Hillarys emails were on Weiners laptop, and it came out after the fact that they sat on it, I honestly think people would have taken up arms against the government......and Im not talking about a couple of dozen people. 


Half the fvckin population is armed to the teeth over here, and most of them hate Hillary like people in Ireland hate Enda, just multiply it by anout 1000

Most of the people that voted, voted for Hillary ffs. What are you saying? Taking up arms against government? What government? The Comey interference was obviously timely and calculated. And as it turned out without substance but had intended effect. If you believe that was incidental or coincidental, then you are in a minority.
What is the 'armed to the teeth' stuff about. I know some people voted for Trump because they feared Hillary would have taken away some of their guns. That was another bit of spin Trump angled off. No administration was going to take on gun laws for along time again. that was put to bed. Or drug companies either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 14, 2017, 03:21:34 AM
Quote from: moysider on January 14, 2017, 03:00:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2017, 01:55:17 AM
Quote from: moysider on January 14, 2017, 01:33:00 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 13, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
It's hard not to feel happy for Trump now that he's on the receiving end of this fake news (or is it?) considering he didn't call bullshit on any of the stuff he was happy to propagate during the elections.

Interesting times and his actions towards Moscow will be watched with interest now...


All the same the White House staff are readying themselves for his arrival with a new consignment of rubber sheets just in case.

Trump doesn't give a shite - sorry piss - now!

The Russians and James Comey got him over the line. As is clear from some posters here, misogyny was a factor as well.

I expect Comey will ride off into the sunset now with saddles full of Trump gold. Putin is probably laughing his arse off.  The people of America voted for this privileged, despicable individual and deserve him as a result. Good for them. Unfortunately the rest of the us will have to put up with his whims and ego as well. Even before he becomes President it looks like 'Carry on Trump'.

If Comey didnt come public with the fact Hillarys emails were on Weiners laptop, and it came out after the fact that they sat on it, I honestly think people would have taken up arms against the government......and Im not talking about a couple of dozen people. 


Half the fvckin population is armed to the teeth over here, and most of them hate Hillary like people in Ireland hate Enda, just multiply it by anout 1000

Most of the people that voted, voted for Hillary ffs. What are you saying? Taking up arms against government? What government? The Comey interference was obviously timely and calculated. And as it turned out without substance but had intended effect. If you believe that was incidental or coincidental, then you are in a minority.
What is the 'armed to the teeth' stuff about. I know some people voted for Trump because they feared Hillary would have taken away some of their guns. That was another bit of spin Trump angled off. No administration was going to take on gun laws for along time again. that was put to bed. Or drug companies either.

Hillary got more votes.....but the entirety that surplus came from 1 State....California....the most left wing state in the country.  Absent California Trump won more votes accross the other 49 States by over 1m votes

http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/its-official-clintons-popular-vote-win-came-entirely-from-california/


Comey didnt "interfere".....he had a legal and constitutional obligation to inform Congress of any  material developments in the email investigation........finding 650,000 of Hillarys emails on Weiners laptop would definitely check that box in mine and many other reasonable peoples opinions.

If he sat on that, and it came out....I honestly think you would have seen armed poeple take to the streets (nothing to do with gun control)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 14, 2017, 05:24:42 AM
Quotehe had a legal and constitutional obligation to inform Congress of any  material developments in the email investigation........finding 650,000 of Hillarys emails on Weiners laptop would definitely check that box in mine and many other reasonable peoples opinions.

Relevance? And since when did you qualify as reasonable people?

Can't believe you still keep hooking fish.

Trumpski to be impeached by 2019

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 14, 2017, 05:58:07 AM
There we have it. Right from the "Whitey" , Californian voters don't count. Well should not be heeded. They don't vote the "right" way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 14, 2017, 12:25:53 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 14, 2017, 05:58:07 AM
There we have it. Right from the "Whitey" , Californian voters don't count. Well should not be heeded. They don't vote the "right" way

Of course they count, the fact is the electoral college was implemented to stop the Californias and the New Yorks from always determining the outcome of the election, it has helped both parties in the past.

I have never seen worse losers than the democrats in this cycle, they are absolutaly atrocious, funny as fack, but atrocious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 02:34:43 PM
Or, if we discount Texas and Alabama, Hilary won the popular vote by 5 million.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 14, 2017, 04:06:38 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 02:34:43 PM
Or, if we discount Texas and Alabama, Hilary won the popular vote by 5 million.
its a bit like Dublin in Ireland should the Dublin area have one third of the tds in Ireland because of its population? Don't think the rest of the country would like that very much.
California provided Hillary with 55 votes out of a total of 538 more than 10% and the population is about 12% of the country so a small difference , trump ran a smarter campaign in that he concentrated on the swing states and won them all and in the final results he thrashed her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 14, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 02:34:43 PM
Or, if we discount Texas and Alabama, Hilary won the popular vote by 5 million.

Hence how ridiculous the argument about Hillary getting more votes....it doesnt matter....simple as....thats not the system we have in place.

If we follow that same logic we should be all  in arms about UKIP getting one seat for 3,800,000 votes, while the SNP got 56 seats on 1,450,000 votes.

Or the Irish system where the person who gets more first preference votes doenst necessarily up winning a seat against someone who gets more transfers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 02:34:43 PM
Or, if we discount Texas and Alabama, Hilary won the popular vote by 5 million.

Hence how ridiculous the argument about Hillary getting more votes....it doesnt matter....simple as....thats not the system we have in place.

If we follow that same logic we should be all  in arms about UKIP getting one seat for 3,800,000 votes, while the SNP got 56 seats on 1,450,000 votes.

Or the Irish system where the person who gets more first preference votes doenst necessarily up winning a seat against someone who gets more transfers

I agree that the point about Hilary getting more votes doesn't matter.  Both sides knew where the goalposts were at the outset.  What I find silly is the frequently made point that if we discount California, Hilary didn't get more votes.  If we're going to talk about the popular vote, why omit California while keeping the bigger Trump margin states in the tally?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 14, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 02:34:43 PM
Or, if we discount Texas and Alabama, Hilary won the popular vote by 5 million.

Hence how ridiculous the argument about Hillary getting more votes....it doesnt matter....simple as....thats not the system we have in place.

If we follow that same logic we should be all  in arms about UKIP getting one seat for 3,800,000 votes, while the SNP got 56 seats on 1,450,000 votes.

Or the Irish system where the person who gets more first preference votes doenst necessarily up winning a seat against someone who gets more transfers

I agree that the point about Hilary getting more votes doesn't matter.  Both sides knew where the goalposts were at the outset.  What I find silly is the frequently made point that if we discount California, Hilary didn't get more votes.  If we're going to talk about the popular vote, why omit California while keeping the bigger Trump margin states in the tally?

Agreed its a silly argument, but there is actually some logic behind it seeing as Californiais such an outlier......38 M people.....versus the next closest state Texas with 26 M people.

By my back of the napkin calculations if we take out both Texas and Ca Trump won the popular vote by 53811000 to 53214000
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 14, 2017, 08:53:36 PM
So the Kenyan lad had one last stab at trying to cause instability for the new POTUS by expelling Russians. Childish and stupid behaviour.

As for the following, I'm sure looking back it's a bit embarrassing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC1NGWM8gP8

just goes to show how arrogant and confident the Democrats were of their candidate. At least he's aware he is the worst president ever.

The stink that has followed since the results just goes to show how sick they are they lost. Constant CNN moaning. Too funny!

Bye bye Osama/ WEPOTUS

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 15, 2017, 07:01:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 02:34:43 PM
Or, if we discount Texas and Alabama, Hilary won the popular vote by 5 million.

Hence how ridiculous the argument about Hillary getting more votes....it doesnt matter....simple as....thats not the system we have in place.

If we follow that same logic we should be all  in arms about UKIP getting one seat for 3,800,000 votes, while the SNP got 56 seats on 1,450,000 votes.

Or the Irish system where the person who gets more first preference votes doenst necessarily up winning a seat against someone who gets more transfers

I agree that the point about Hilary getting more votes doesn't matter.  Both sides knew where the goalposts were at the outset.  What I find silly is the frequently made point that if we discount California, Hilary didn't get more votes.  If we're going to talk about the popular vote, why omit California while keeping the bigger Trump margin states in the tally?

Agreed its a silly argument, but there is actually some logic behind it seeing as Californiais such an outlier......38 M people.....versus the next closest state Texas with 26 M people.

By my back of the napkin calculations if we take out both Texas and Ca Trump won the popular vote by 53811000 to 53214000

Problem with the arithmetic there. 4.3 less  0.8 = 3.5 million ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 15, 2017, 07:50:43 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 14, 2017, 08:53:36 PM
So the Kenyan lad had one last stab at trying to cause instability for the new POTUS by expelling Russians. Childish and stupid behaviour.

As for the following, I'm sure looking back it's a bit embarrassing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC1NGWM8gP8

just goes to show how arrogant and confident the Democrats were of their candidate. At least he's aware he is the worst president ever.

The stink that has followed since the results just goes to show how sick they are they lost. Constant CNN moaning. Too funny!

Bye bye Osama/ WEPOTUS
[/quote
Yes, people in less populated states voted for Donal Trump and he won the election. He won it appealing to the baser instincts of the electorate. You articulate that perfectly when you refer to President Obama as the Keynan. BTW Do you ever read any of the economic or social indicators. All have moved in a very positive way in the last eight years. But that's not what Fox News considers "Fair and Balanced".  Democrats were stupid to think that "Joes the plumbers" would not once again vote against their economic self interest and buy the "trickle down" BS from a Carpetbagger.
They have been doing it for 30 years.  It was not democrat arrogance; it was a stupid belief that people are smart enough to vote for their own economic self interest.
Do you really think that President Obama was causing instability for President elect Trump by telling V. Putin that messing with the US electoral system was outside the pale.
Before you think it. Yes, you are right I should not have reacted to a WUM but I couldn't help myself and Mary Elke's Pinot put me over the top.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 16, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
Judging by recent statements from the incoming administration it looks like SNL is going to be a key issue for the Trump administration!!!

(Baldwin has him down to a tee it's great television!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:09:01 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
Judging by recent statements from the incoming administration it looks like SNL is going to be a key issue for the Trump administration!!!

(Baldwin has him down to a tee it's great television!)

And therein lies the issue.....I have lived here for 23 years and not aline do I not watch SNL, I don't know ONE person who does. If you think SNL speaks for, or to a majority of Americans, (or even to a large minority) you're way off the mark.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 16, 2017, 11:43:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2017, 02:34:43 PM
Or, if we discount Texas and Alabama, Hilary won the popular vote by 5 million.

Hence how ridiculous the argument about Hillary getting more votes....it doesnt matter....simple as....thats not the system we have in place.

If we follow that same logic we should be all  in arms about UKIP getting one seat for 3,800,000 votes, while the SNP got 56 seats on 1,450,000 votes.

Or the Irish system where the person who gets more first preference votes doenst necessarily up winning a seat against someone who gets more transfers

It's irrelevant, and more dangerous for the Democrats, it clouds reality. If they think that the only reason they lost is because of the system, then they are fucked. You can't say 'if we were playing by these rules, we would have won' because simply put, they weren't the rules of the game. And Trump (and Clinton) played the game according to the rules.

In the old days of the GAA, a goal was worth more than any number of points. So if you won an All Ireland 1-0 to 0-6 you were still All Ireland Champions. The opposition wouldn't say 'Ah yeah, but we scored six points, so if points were worth more, we'd have won'.

As long as the system is the system, you play and campaign by the system, and bleating about the popular vote is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:09:01 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
Judging by recent statements from the incoming administration it looks like SNL is going to be a key issue for the Trump administration!!!

(Baldwin has him down to a tee it's great television!)

And therein lies the issue.....I have lived here for 23 years and not aline do I not watch SNL, I don't know ONE person who does. If you think SNL speaks for, or to a majority of Americans, (or even to a large minority) you're way off the mark.

Yet the sketches, which go viral, drive Trump crazy and solicit vitriolic, spiteful, immature tweets from him.

And the same show, not watched by many apparently, ended up defining Sarah Palin eight years ago.

Just wait till Alec Baldwin wins an Emmy or whatever to see how the great conspiracy theorist reacts!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:09:01 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
Judging by recent statements from the incoming administration it looks like SNL is going to be a key issue for the Trump administration!!!

(Baldwin has him down to a tee it's great television!)

And therein lies the issue.....I have lived here for 23 years and not aline do I not watch SNL, I don't know ONE person who does. If you think SNL speaks for, or to a majority of Americans, (or even to a large minority) you're way off the mark.

Yet the sketches, which go viral, drive Trump crazy and solicit vitriolic, spiteful, immature tweets from him.

And the same show, not watched by many apparently, ended up defining Sarah Palin eight years ago.

Just wait till Alec Baldwin wins an Emmy or whatever to see how the great conspiracy theorist reacts!

Yep....lame stream news media played those Palin clips on a continual loop until people started actually believing she said some of the things she was portrayed as saying in the sketch.  Way to go!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 12:54:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:09:01 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
Judging by recent statements from the incoming administration it looks like SNL is going to be a key issue for the Trump administration!!!

(Baldwin has him down to a tee it's great television!)

And therein lies the issue.....I have lived here for 23 years and not aline do I not watch SNL, I don't know ONE person who does. If you think SNL speaks for, or to a majority of Americans, (or even to a large minority) you're way off the mark.

Yet the sketches, which go viral, drive Trump crazy and solicit vitriolic, spiteful, immature tweets from him.

And the same show, not watched by many apparently, ended up defining Sarah Palin eight years ago.

Just wait till Alec Baldwin wins an Emmy or whatever to see how the great conspiracy theorist reacts!

Yep....lame stream news media played those Palin clips on a continual loop until people started actually believing she said some of the things she was portrayed as saying in the sketch.  Way to go!

And the Dems are the immature snowflakes??!! Poor misunderstood Sarah Palin, if it wasn't for Tina Fey, she'd be recognised for the political giant she was.

Really, really hope you're being ironic here Whitey...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 12:57:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:09:01 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
Judging by recent statements from the incoming administration it looks like SNL is going to be a key issue for the Trump administration!!!

(Baldwin has him down to a tee it's great television!)

And therein lies the issue.....I have lived here for 23 years and not aline do I not watch SNL, I don't know ONE person who does. If you think SNL speaks for, or to a majority of Americans, (or even to a large minority) you're way off the mark.

Yet the sketches, which go viral, drive Trump crazy and solicit vitriolic, spiteful, immature tweets from him.

And the same show, not watched by many apparently, ended up defining Sarah Palin eight years ago.

Just wait till Alec Baldwin wins an Emmy or whatever to see how the great conspiracy theorist reacts!

Yep....lame stream news media played those Palin clips on a continual loop until people started actually believing she said some of the things she was portrayed as saying in the sketch.  Way to go!

They played them because they were funny and popular.

Palin herself conceded as much by presenting and actually being a good sport (at least for a bit).

If they didn't hit a mark, the sketches wouldn't have gone viral, especially not to the point where some people thought she actually said "I can see Russia from my house" (although the Russia statement SNL was lampooning wasn't much more coherent or sensible). Other stuff they used was actual statements she made.

However, the point is, that SNL CAN be very influential, despite your statement that they don't speak to or for many Americans.

Trump knows this, although he would probably obsess over it even if they were on some obscure cable channel and nothing they did spread.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 01:00:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvlm3LKSlpU

Sarah "policy wonk" Palin endorsing Trump because of his intention of being a "disrupter" on the international stage spells the decline of the post WW2 consensus, and an embrace of more traditional Metternich-like spheres of influence and a rational realpolitik towards nominal adversaries...'n' guns 'n' immigants 'n'  Murica

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 01:03:21 PM
Trump even presented last year himself. Hillary made an appearance before the election. As have numerous other politicians over the years.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lPd4rlOlw1lRqU/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 01:12:48 PM
MSM uses every stick at its disposal to beat, belittle and distort Republicans and Conservatives.  Re-running the SNL sketches is just a continuation of that.   Yes Trump and Palin are great targets and yes they leave themselves wide open to ridicule, but is it the role of supposed serious "news" outlets to asassinate the candidates of one party leaving those of the other party relatively untouched?  I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 01:12:48 PM
MSM uses every stick at its disposal to beat, belittle and distort Republicans and Conservatives.  Re-running the SNL sketches is just a continuation of that.   Yes Trump and Palin are great targets and yes they leave themselves wide open to ridicule, but is it the role of supposed serious "news" outlets to asassinate the candidates of one party leaving those of the other party relatively untouched?  I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

You just answered your own question.

I don't recall too many John McCain or Mitt Romney or Obama impressions going viral because the material and the actors able to so accurately and hilariously lampoon them just weren't there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 01:34:03 PM
You've spent the last year and a half complaining, that while of course you'd never vote Trump, the namby pamby snowflakes of the liberal left, with their safe spaces and their BLM t shirts, and their sensitive beards are wot's doing Murica down...

and then Trump wins, apparently on the back of a great manly roar from the unwashed and forgotten Real Muricans...

and now you're complaining about a sketch show...a FRICKIN' SKETCH SHOW... on the lame stream media, which you say you don't care about (which is obviously a sign that you do)... is "unfairly" doing down the conservative He Man, who responds by tweeting like a vapid Valley Girl...of which you're doing a fairly good impression yerself.

That's it. Shut down the mocha cappuccino machine, throw the fixy bikes in the dumpster and usher the hipsters towards the cliff ... irony is dead.

LOL, as you would say Whitey.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 01:39:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 01:12:48 PM
MSM uses every stick at its disposal to beat, belittle and distort Republicans and Conservatives.  Re-running the SNL sketches is just a continuation of that.   Yes Trump and Palin are great targets and yes they leave themselves wide open to ridicule, but is it the role of supposed serious "news" outlets to asassinate the candidates of one party leaving those of the other party relatively untouched?  I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

You just answered your own question.

I don't recall too many John McCain or Mitt Romney or Obama impressions going viral because the material and the actors able to so accurately and hilariously lampoon them just weren't there.

Just because YOU can't recall it happening, doesn't mean I didn't happen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 01:49:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 01:39:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 01:12:48 PM
MSM uses every stick at its disposal to beat, belittle and distort Republicans and Conservatives.  Re-running the SNL sketches is just a continuation of that.   Yes Trump and Palin are great targets and yes they leave themselves wide open to ridicule, but is it the role of supposed serious "news" outlets to asassinate the candidates of one party leaving those of the other party relatively untouched?  I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

You just answered your own question.

I don't recall too many John McCain or Mitt Romney or Obama impressions going viral because the material and the actors able to so accurately and hilariously lampoon them just weren't there.

Just because YOU can't recall it happening, doesn't mean I didn't happen

Well either they were viral hits or they weren't. Which was it?

I remember Romney impressions by Jason Sudeikas which were pretty funny, but hardly worthy of breaking the internet. The Obama ones were very average. Can't remember a John McCain impersonation.

The ones that have been massive hits have been Bill Clinton, Will Ferrell's GW Bush, Fey's Palin and Baldwin's Trump. Kate McKinnon's smug, overconfindent, Hillary was pretty funny too and got a bit of coverage.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 01:50:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 01:34:03 PM
You've spent the last year and a half complaining, that while of course you'd never vote Trump, the namby pamby snowflakes of the liberal left, with their safe spaces and their BLM t shirts, and their sensitive beards are wot's doing Murica down...

and then Trump wins, apparently on the back of a great manly roar from the unwashed and forgotten Real Muricans...

and now you're complaining about a sketch show...a FRICKIN' SKETCH SHOW... on the lame stream media, which you say you don't care about (which is obviously a sign that you do)... is "unfairly" doing down the conservative He Man, who responds by tweeting like a vapid Valley Girl...of which you're doing a fairly good impression yerself.

That's it. Shut down the mocha cappuccino machine, throw the fixy bikes in the dumpster and usher the hipsters towards the cliff ... irony is dead.

LOL, as you would say Whitey.



I don't care about the sketch show, because from what I can tell they have a pretty well defined audience who would most likely never vote Republican anyway.

The Lame Stream News Media then play every clip on a loop for the rest of the week in a deliberate attempt to malign just conservatives.  I expect nothing more from them

But this election cycle has shown that the power and influence of the Lame Stream News Media is waning fast and their demise is accelerating.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 01:50:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 01:34:03 PM
You've spent the last year and a half complaining, that while of course you'd never vote Trump, the namby pamby snowflakes of the liberal left, with their safe spaces and their BLM t shirts, and their sensitive beards are wot's doing Murica down...

and then Trump wins, apparently on the back of a great manly roar from the unwashed and forgotten Real Muricans...

and now you're complaining about a sketch show...a FRICKIN' SKETCH SHOW... on the lame stream media, which you say you don't care about (which is obviously a sign that you do)... is "unfairly" doing down the conservative He Man, who responds by tweeting like a vapid Valley Girl...of which you're doing a fairly good impression yerself.

That's it. Shut down the mocha cappuccino machine, throw the fixy bikes in the dumpster and usher the hipsters towards the cliff ... irony is dead.

LOL, as you would say Whitey.



I don't care about the sketch show, because from what I can tell they have a pretty well defined audience who would most likely never vote Republican anyway.

The Lame Stream News Media then play every clip on a loop for the rest of the week in a deliberate attempt to malign just conservatives.  I expect nothing more from them

But this election cycle has shown that the power and influence of the Lame Stream News Media is waning fast and their demise is accelerating.

Grow up FFS. ;D

And on the last point, what did the 2012 election cycle show then??

We've been hearing about the impending death of the mainstream media for 25 years. And if it's becoming so irrelevant, why are you so obsessed with it. You never shut up about it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 02:01:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 01:50:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 01:34:03 PM
You've spent the last year and a half complaining, that while of course you'd never vote Trump, the namby pamby snowflakes of the liberal left, with their safe spaces and their BLM t shirts, and their sensitive beards are wot's doing Murica down...

and then Trump wins, apparently on the back of a great manly roar from the unwashed and forgotten Real Muricans...

and now you're complaining about a sketch show...a FRICKIN' SKETCH SHOW... on the lame stream media, which you say you don't care about (which is obviously a sign that you do)... is "unfairly" doing down the conservative He Man, who responds by tweeting like a vapid Valley Girl...of which you're doing a fairly good impression yerself.

That's it. Shut down the mocha cappuccino machine, throw the fixy bikes in the dumpster and usher the hipsters towards the cliff ... irony is dead.

LOL, as you would say Whitey.



I don't care about the sketch show, because from what I can tell they have a pretty well defined audience who would most likely never vote Republican anyway.

The Lame Stream News Media then play every clip on a loop for the rest of the week in a deliberate attempt to malign just conservatives.  I expect nothing more from them

But this election cycle has shown that the power and influence of the Lame Stream News Media is waning fast and their demise is accelerating.

Poor conservatives, done down by the lame stream media, and all they have to show for it is the majority of state legislatures, majority of governorships, majority in the House and the Senate, and the Presidency...

You can be a bad winner as much as a bad loser. Cheer up snowflake, Baldwin is hilarious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 16, 2017, 02:22:25 PM
Jesus Whitey,
   One minute you're giving out about the liberals, libtards or whatever for not accepting the election result and being so sensitive and in the next breath you're getting annoyed about how Trump is being portrayed on some comedy sketch show which according to you is barely watched by anyone..

FFS parody comedy of political figures has been on the go for centuries and its not going to stop now.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 16, 2017, 02:26:23 PM
It's a pity Spitting Image is not on the go anymore.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:39:51 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 16, 2017, 02:22:25 PM
Jesus Whitey,
   One minute you're giving out about the liberals, libtards or whatever for not accepting the election result and being so sensitive and in the next breath you're getting annoyed about how Trump is being portrayed on some comedy sketch show which according to you is barely watched by anyone..

FFS parody comedy of political figures has been on the go for centuries and its not going to stop now.

I said I don't know one person who watches it. I meet upward of 50 new people per week in my line of work and I could count on one hand the number of times someone asked me in the last year had I seen the SNL skit.

My point (which like everything on here gets twisted and turned) was that the SNL skits, as hilarious as you all think they are, appeal to a subset of voters who wouldn't vote Republican if their lives depended upon it anyway   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 02:46:54 PM
So if it doesn't appeal to Republicans it ain't funny? Or it doesn't matter? And if it doesn't matter, and no one you know watches it, what are you banging on about?

I think Republicans aren't funny. But they do matter.

However, you mustn't be a Republican, because all your twisted and turned comments (persecuted again, Whitey?) are hilarious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 02:46:54 PM
So if it doesn't appeal to Republicans it ain't funny? Or it doesn't matter? And if it doesn't matter, and no one you know watches it, what are you banging on about?

I think Republicans aren't funny. But they do matter.

However, you mustn't be a Republican, because all your twisted and turned comments (persecuted again, Whitey?) are hilarious.

I'll use up one of my "lol's" just for you

In spite of what SNL and the MSM may tell you conservatism is alive and well and thriving

As much as I dislike Trump personally, I think he might actually do a decent job.

Dems are very much like the Labour Party in England....they have lots to say to those on the fringes but shag all to say to the people "humping it 60 hours a week" (to quote Bill Clinton)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 16, 2017, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 02:46:54 PM
So if it doesn't appeal to Republicans it ain't funny? Or it doesn't matter? And if it doesn't matter, and no one you know watches it, what are you banging on about?

I think Republicans aren't funny. But they do matter.

However, you mustn't be a Republican, because all your twisted and turned comments (persecuted again, Whitey?) are hilarious.

I'll use up one of my "lol's" just for you

In spite of what SNL and the MSM may tell you conservatism is alive and well and thriving

As much as I dislike Trump personally, I think he might actually do a decent job.

Dems are very much like the Labour Party in England....they have lots to say to those on the fringes but shag all to say to the people "humping it 60 hours a week" (to quote Bill Clinton)

Why do you presume that there are no Dems humping it 60 hours a week??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 02:46:54 PM
So if it doesn't appeal to Republicans it ain't funny? Or it doesn't matter? And if it doesn't matter, and no one you know watches it, what are you banging on about?

I think Republicans aren't funny. But they do matter.

However, you mustn't be a Republican, because all your twisted and turned comments (persecuted again, Whitey?) are hilarious.

I'll use up one of my "lol's" just for you

In spite of what SNL and the MSM may tell you conservatism is alive and well and thriving

When have either suggested that conservatism is not alive and well and thriving?

Creationism is demonstrably a complete load of pseudoscientific bollocks and deserving of ridicule. That doesn't mean its not thriving. As with lots of conspiracy theory nonsense.

Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
As much as I dislike Trump personally, I think he might actually do a decent job.

The proof will be in the pudding. If you're rich he'll absolutely do a great job for you.

If you want to gut environmental or consumer or worker protections or protections for the poor or vulnerable, he, along with Paul Ryan, is absolutely your man.

Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Dems are very much like the Labour Party in England....they have lots to say to those on the fringes but shag all to say to the people "humping it 60 hours a week" (to quote Bill Clinton)

You're always coming out with this horseshit. As if liberals aren't also hard-working people or part of the mainstream of America.

But we'll see how Trump will do for the hard-working "real" Americans.

And who are all these people supposedly "on the fringes" that the Dems are mistakenly targeting?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 02:46:54 PM
So if it doesn't appeal to Republicans it ain't funny? Or it doesn't matter? And if it doesn't matter, and no one you know watches it, what are you banging on about?

I think Republicans aren't funny. But they do matter.

However, you mustn't be a Republican, because all your twisted and turned comments (persecuted again, Whitey?) are hilarious.

I'll use up one of my "lol's" just for you

In spite of what SNL and the MSM may tell you conservatism is alive and well and thriving

When have either suggested that conservatism is not alive and well and thriving?

Creationism is demonstrably a complete load of pseudoscientific bollocks and deserving of ridicule. That doesn't mean its not thriving. As with lots of conspiracy theory nonsense.

Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
As much as I dislike Trump personally, I think he might actually do a decent job.

The proof will be in the pudding. If you're rich he'll absolutely do a great job for you.

If you want to gut environmental or consumer or worker protections or protections for the poor or vulnerable, he, along with Paul Ryan, is absolutely your man.

Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Dems are very much like the Labour Party in England....they have lots to say to those on the fringes but shag all to say to the people "humping it 60 hours a week" (to quote Bill Clinton)

You're always coming out with this horseshit. As if liberals aren't also hard-working people or part of the mainstream of America.

But we'll see how Trump will do for the hard-working "real" Americans.

And who are all these people supposedly "on the fringes" that the Dems are mistakenly targeting?


Haha (can't use lol anymore).....your response in a nutshell explains why the Democrats lost.....you just can't admit that the elites and establishment of the Democratic Party no longer represent their base......the base are the people humping it 60 hours a week (I never said they were Republicans... that was your spin)

Election is decided by the swing voters in the swing states and those are the people who feel abandoned by the Democratic Party.......they voted twice for Obama and flipped to Trump and he'll probably do okay by them (or at least he'll pretend to)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 16, 2017, 03:42:28 PM
Trump deserves to be made fun of, a lot, so does Clinton, problem is she tends to get a big pass and the republicans get a harder time because the sketch writers, actors etc tend to be more liberal in their thinking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 16, 2017, 03:46:35 PM
Quote from: stew on January 16, 2017, 03:42:28 PM
Trump deserves to be made fun of, a lot, so does Clinton, problem is she tends to get a big pass and the republicans get a harder time because the sketch writers, actors etc tend to be more liberal in their thinking.

Would definitely agree with that . . . this is one of the best things I've seen in a long time!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S65jqrHQi_c
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 02:46:54 PM
So if it doesn't appeal to Republicans it ain't funny? Or it doesn't matter? And if it doesn't matter, and no one you know watches it, what are you banging on about?

I think Republicans aren't funny. But they do matter.

However, you mustn't be a Republican, because all your twisted and turned comments (persecuted again, Whitey?) are hilarious.

I'll use up one of my "lol's" just for you

In spite of what SNL and the MSM may tell you conservatism is alive and well and thriving

When have either suggested that conservatism is not alive and well and thriving?

Creationism is demonstrably a complete load of pseudoscientific bollocks and deserving of ridicule. That doesn't mean its not thriving. As with lots of conspiracy theory nonsense.

Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
As much as I dislike Trump personally, I think he might actually do a decent job.

The proof will be in the pudding. If you're rich he'll absolutely do a great job for you.

If you want to gut environmental or consumer or worker protections or protections for the poor or vulnerable, he, along with Paul Ryan, is absolutely your man.

Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Dems are very much like the Labour Party in England....they have lots to say to those on the fringes but shag all to say to the people "humping it 60 hours a week" (to quote Bill Clinton)

You're always coming out with this horseshit. As if liberals aren't also hard-working people or part of the mainstream of America.

But we'll see how Trump will do for the hard-working "real" Americans.

And who are all these people supposedly "on the fringes" that the Dems are mistakenly targeting?


Haha (can't use lol anymore).....your response in a nutshell explains why the Democrats lost.....you just can't admit that the elites and establishment of the Democratic Party no longer represent their base......the base are the people humping it 60 hours a week (I never said they were Republicans... that was your spin)

Election is decided by the swing voters in the swing states and those are the people who feel abandoned by the Democratic Party.......they voted twice for Obama and flipped to Trump and he'll probably do okay by them (or at least he'll pretend to)

You're full of shit with this "elite" bollocks whitey.

Both parties have "elites". The GOP have the business class types who, for years, have used wedge issues like guns and gays to keep THEIR base afraid of what the Dems will supposedly do once they get in power.

One election does not mean that suddenly the GOP is right and the Dems all wrong. You'd swear, listening to you, that the GOP were the ones over the past eight years calling for jobs programmes and support for those laid off during the economic collapse.

And along comes Trump who, you somewhat admit, cynically latched on to bullshit about bringing manufacturing jobs back, and suddenly its the Dems who are the out of touch elites. You admit yourself he will possibly "pretend to do okay by them", as if that is better than pushing retraining and infrastructure employment that Obama tried to offer, but which was poison because, you know, the Dems were going to take their guns away or turn the sons into fags or allow ISIS to turn America into a sharia state.

And, just to remind you, the GOP lost the popular vote yet again, and won by achieving a razor-thin margin in three states. You say yourself that Biden or Sanders may well have won. It will take f**k all to have Trump booted out of office in 2020, Democratic elite types be damned.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 04:22:04 PM
Believe whatever you want....

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_56f17969e4b084c672219f8a

If the prevailing ideology of the Republican establishment is that of a sneering aristocracy, Democratic elites are all too often the purveyors of a smirking meritocracy that offers working people very little.


http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/biden-admits-democrats-have-turned-white-middle-class-favor-elites

a Hardball exclusive on MSNBC with Chris Matthews, Vice President Joe Biden admitted that the Democrat Party has turned its back on white middle-class voters and preferred latching on to elitists.

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/06/democrats-stopped-listening-to-bruce-springsteen-how-the-party-lost-its-working-class-rust-belt-base_partner/

The Democratic establishment and many in the media wonder why so many white working-class voters have abandoned the party. Unfortunately, for many of those voters, the Democratic Party feels it's rich enough to forget their names.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 16, 2017, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 02:46:54 PM
So if it doesn't appeal to Republicans it ain't funny? Or it doesn't matter? And if it doesn't matter, and no one you know watches it, what are you banging on about?

I think Republicans aren't funny. But they do matter.

However, you mustn't be a Republican, because all your twisted and turned comments (persecuted again, Whitey?) are hilarious.

I'll use up one of my "lol's" just for you

In spite of what SNL and the MSM may tell you conservatism is alive and well and thriving

When have either suggested that conservatism is not alive and well and thriving?

Creationism is demonstrably a complete load of pseudoscientific bollocks and deserving of ridicule. That doesn't mean its not thriving. As with lots of conspiracy theory nonsense.

Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
As much as I dislike Trump personally, I think he might actually do a decent job.

The proof will be in the pudding. If you're rich he'll absolutely do a great job for you.

If you want to gut environmental or consumer or worker protections or protections for the poor or vulnerable, he, along with Paul Ryan, is absolutely your man.

Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Dems are very much like the Labour Party in England....they have lots to say to those on the fringes but shag all to say to the people "humping it 60 hours a week" (to quote Bill Clinton)

You're always coming out with this horseshit. As if liberals aren't also hard-working people or part of the mainstream of America.

But we'll see how Trump will do for the hard-working "real" Americans.

And who are all these people supposedly "on the fringes" that the Dems are mistakenly targeting?


Haha (can't use lol anymore).....your response in a nutshell explains why the Democrats lost.....you just can't admit that the elites and establishment of the Democratic Party no longer represent their base......the base are the people humping it 60 hours a week (I never said they were Republicans... that was your spin)

Election is decided by the swing voters in the swing states and those are the people who feel abandoned by the Democratic Party.......they voted twice for Obama and flipped to Trump and he'll probably do okay by them (or at least he'll pretend to)
Quite a few voted twice for Trump as well, big Russian exclusive coming out, game changer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 16, 2017, 04:32:27 PM
?? Why would the Russians release anything like that. Sure they wanted Trump to win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 16, 2017, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:39:51 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 16, 2017, 02:22:25 PM
Jesus Whitey,
   One minute you're giving out about the liberals, libtards or whatever for not accepting the election result and being so sensitive and in the next breath you're getting annoyed about how Trump is being portrayed on some comedy sketch show which according to you is barely watched by anyone..

FFS parody comedy of political figures has been on the go for centuries and its not going to stop now.

I said I don't know one person who watches it. I meet upward of 50 new people per week in my line of work and I could count on one hand the number of times someone asked me in the last year had I seen the SNL skit.

My point (which like everything on here gets twisted and turned) was that the SNL skits, as hilarious as you all think they are, appeal to a subset of voters who wouldn't vote Republican if their lives depended upon it anyway

And?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 04:22:04 PM
Believe whatever you want....

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_56f17969e4b084c672219f8a

If the prevailing ideology of the Republican establishment is that of a sneering aristocracy, Democratic elites are all too often the purveyors of a smirking meritocracy that offers working people very little.


http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/biden-admits-democrats-have-turned-white-middle-class-favor-elites

a Hardball exclusive on MSNBC with Chris Matthews, Vice President Joe Biden admitted that the Democrat Party has turned its back on white middle-class voters and preferred latching on to elitists.

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/06/democrats-stopped-listening-to-bruce-springsteen-how-the-party-lost-its-working-class-rust-belt-base_partner/

The Democratic establishment and many in the media wonder why so many white working-class voters have abandoned the party. Unfortunately, for many of those voters, the Democratic Party feels it's rich enough to forget their names.

But I'm not arguing that the Democrats don't have elitests amongst their number or that they might not need to work harder to court white middle class voters. I'm saying the GOP is just as if not more so elitest, hence I don't see why you feel that this one election is so significant and fatal for the Dems if elitism is so key. You quote/paraphrase the Springsteen song Youngstown at the end - which party is the steel mill owner in question forgetting his workers' names more likely to belong to?

But let's play along - what should the Dems do? Abandon the social justice/minority inclusion stuff that the GOP hypes as being against their interests? Embrace the hostility to immigrants and gays and the non-Christian? Get all in on ownership of military style automatic weapons?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 06:10:03 PM
They should listen to their voters.....that's what they should do.(Instead they paint anyone who disagrees with the elites of the party as a bigot/fascist/homephobe/islamophobe)

If They don't wake up, they could take a hammering in 2018......I think they have to defend something like 20 Senate seats in states Trump won.  He'll play it between the ditches between now and then, but if he scores big in 2018 he will do whatever the fvck he wants for the final 2 years....and that won't be good for anyone one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2017, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 16, 2017, 02:46:54 PM
So if it doesn't appeal to Republicans it ain't funny? Or it doesn't matter? And if it doesn't matter, and no one you know watches it, what are you banging on about?

I think Republicans aren't funny. But they do matter.

However, you mustn't be a Republican, because all your twisted and turned comments (persecuted again, Whitey?) are hilarious.

I'll use up one of my "lol's" just for you

In spite of what SNL and the MSM may tell you conservatism is alive and well and thriving

As much as I dislike Trump personally, I think he might actually do a decent job.

Dems are very much like the Labour Party in England....they have lots to say to those on the fringes but shag all to say to the people "humping it 60 hours a week" (to quote Bill Clinton)
Asslicking the ultra rich and Israel is not conservatism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 10:34:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 06:10:03 PM
They should listen to their voters.....that's what they should do.(Instead they paint anyone who disagrees with the elites of the party as a bigot/fascist/homephobe/islamophobe)

If They don't wake up, they could take a hammering in 2018......I think they have to defend something like 20 Senate seats in states Trump won.  He'll play it between the ditches between now and then, but if he scores big in 2018 he will do whatever the fvck he wants for the final 2 years....and that won't be good for anyone one

How about some specifics, given that you're so adamant about where the Dems are going wrong?

Clinton won 48% of the vote. Trump 46%.

So what do the Dems need to do to swing the 0.5-1.0% it would take to tilt things back?

Say that its ok to ban muslims? Ban the building of mosques?

Deport people who were born in or entered the US as young children, speak with American accents and know no other country, back to Mexico or Guatamala? Or deport their illegal parents and split families up?

Ban all abortion outright and drive abortion back to the back alley butchers?

Say that its ok to discriminate against gay people, that they're less worthy than the rest of us? And definitely don't deserve the dignity of legally marrying and spending their lives with their same-sex partners.

Embrace the false scientific positions of the climate denial and creationist movements?

Embrace the conspiracy theorism of the right, where big government crackdown and martial law is always just one step around the corner (e.g. Jade Helm) and actual false flag operations such as Sandy Hook and Orlando are carried out with the aim of disarming the populace.

Capitulate completely in the gun debate, completely giving up on even the ridiculously modest attempts at tracking and checking backgrounds that the right ludicrously resists?

Reject the need to protect the environment and save the few remaining wild places and open everything up to drilling, mining and grazing, including the destruction of any species or habitat that stands in the way of a few short term bucks?

Embrace the right wing position that is in fact white people who are the real victims in modern society, and that minorities are taking the decent, hardworking taxpayers to the cleaners and need to shut the f**k up about being disproportionate victims of police violence and judicial injustice?

On 2018, yeah, the Dems are probably fucked, unless Trump and the GOP completely overplays their hand. So be it. The backlash will come soon enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:17:52 PM
It's not just me saying it......you just have your head in the sand and can't face reality.  It's going to be a very long 4 years for you

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-working-class-231326

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2017, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:17:52 PM
It's not just me saying it......you just have your head in the sand and can't face reality.  It's going to be a very long 4 years for you

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-working-class-231326

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from."

Saying WHAT though??

No doubt Bernie wants stuff such as increased public assistance to combat poverty and addiction, single-payer healthcare, free public college and so forth. We know what HE thinks the Dems need to double down on.

I'm pretty sure what HE wants is diametrically opposed to what YOU, a conservative, thinks these people want from their government.

The question is what YOU think they need to do. I've laid out a list of options on which white conservatives, including working class, oppose the Democrats. So what do they need to change their approach on?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:17:52 PM
It's not just me saying it......you just have your head in the sand and can't face reality.  It's going to be a very long 4 years for you

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-working-class-231326

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from."

Saying WHAT though??

No doubt Bernie wants stuff such as increased public assistance to combat poverty and addiction, single-payer healthcare, free public college and so forth. We know what HE thinks the Dems need to double down on.

I'm pretty sure what HE wants is diametrically opposed to what YOU, a conservative, thinks these people want from their government.

The question is what YOU think they need to do. I've laid out a list of options on which white conservatives, including working class, oppose the Democrats. So what do they need to change their approach on?

So I have now given you direct quotes from both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden stating that the elite of the Democratic Party has turned its back on and cannot speak to the regular working people and you're still in denial that that's why you lost the election

While all the issues you list are the MOST important issues to the progressive wing of the party, my guess is that the swing voters in the swing states are more interested in jobs, education, healthcare, public safety, and college affordability. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 17, 2017, 12:43:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:17:52 PM
It's not just me saying it......you just have your head in the sand and can't face reality.  It's going to be a very long 4 years for you

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-working-class-231326

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from."

Saying WHAT though??

No doubt Bernie wants stuff such as increased public assistance to combat poverty and addiction, single-payer healthcare, free public college and so forth. We know what HE thinks the Dems need to double down on.

I'm pretty sure what HE wants is diametrically opposed to what YOU, a conservative, thinks these people want from their government.

The question is what YOU think they need to do. I've laid out a list of options on which white conservatives, including working class, oppose the Democrats. So what do they need to change their approach on?

So I have now given you direct quotes from both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden stating that the elite of the Democratic Party has turned its back on and cannot speak to the regular working people and you're still in denial that that's why you lost the election

While all the issues you list are the MOST important issues to the progressive wing of the party, my guess is that the swing voters in the swing states are more interested in jobs, education, healthcare, public safety, and college affordability.

All you're giving, again and again and again, is vague quotes with zero specifics, along with accusations of my being in denial.

I've repeatedly asked you what the Dems should do (and this is not the first time we've had this discussion), but you've nothing specific to offer.

The swing voters have taken a chance with Trump, but the likelihood is that he is going to do f**k all to address jobs or healthcare or college affordability or public safety.

Cops are a local and state issue. What can he possibly do? Tell black people to f**k off and sort out Chicago the next time a video emerges of some poor unarmed lad in Georgia or Tennessee or NYC getting shot and killed by a cop for little reason? Send the police forces some more military surplus gear to deal with protests and riots?

Healthcare - yeah, he is going to sign the repeal of Obamacare, but then what? Yes, we "know" its going to be lower premiums and deductibles and better coverage, but how? Does he have a magic wand? How is he going to address all the problems without mandates spreading the risk and subsidies and Medicaid expansion helping those who can't afford the premiums? What good is a tax break to someone who is barely earning enough to be taxed anyway?

College affordability - again - what? The GOP have been in complete control of Congress for eight of the past twelve sessions since 1994. What have they done or even proposed to address this? 

Jobs - allegedly we are going to get an infrastructure package. Obama and the Dems agitated for this for the past eight years, but the GOP refused point blank. Apparently we couldn't afford such things, despite their proven mutiplier benefit. Whereas now we can deficit spend to build an unnecessary wall (pending the Mexican government ponying up of course) and "rebuilding" the military. While a trade war will bring back long-gone manufacturing jobs and restore a failing (and terribly destructive) coal mining industry.

But yeah, I know, Trump is "talking" about these issues. And Hillary might have too, but no one cared because she is a proven liar and was running on transgender bathroom access.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 17, 2017, 01:08:00 AM
So when I say the elitists of the Democratic party have lost touch with the base you, and most people on here, jump down my neck and accuse me of all sorts of rascism and bigotry and whatever else

When I point out (with direct quotes) that several of the most prominent and respected elder statesmen of the Democratic Party hold the exact same opinion as me you still cannot accept that the Democratic Party are on the wrong path

Instead of having a little introspection and thinking  "hmmm, maybe theres something here" you discount them as "vague quotes".  All due respect, but I think Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden have a better handle on tha situation than you do

Keep worrying yourself sick about whether a guy should be able to use the ladies room....it will help you win back all those swing voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 17, 2017, 01:43:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 17, 2017, 01:08:00 AM
So when I say the elitists of the Democratic party have lost touch with the base you, and most people on here, jump down my neck and accuse me of all sorts of rascism and bigotry and whatever else

When I point out (with direct quotes) that several of the most prominent and respected elder statesmen of the Democratic Party hold the exact same opinion as me you still cannot accept that the Democratic Party are on the wrong path

Instead of having a little introspection and thinking  "hmmm, maybe theres something here" you discount them as "vague quotes".  All due respect, but I think Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden have a better handle on tha situation than you do

Keep worrying yourself sick about whether a guy should be able to use the ladies room....it will help you win back all those swing voters.

You'll have to point out where and when I ever accused you of racism or bigotry. I've no recollection of that.

As for the rest, YOU'RE the one doing the preaching and accusing here, so one would expect you'd at least have some handle on what or where you feel the Democrats went wrong.

I have not said whether I accept or don't accept that the Democratic party is on the right or wrong path. I haven't said anything either way.

I'm merely asking YOU, who seems so sure, what YOU think and to give us some details, given that you're telling us all how doomed the party is if they don't change their errant ways. I even laid out some issues that alienate many conservatives from the Dems, asking if the Dems need to change them to win back some voters.

We all know BOTH parties have people who come out with mea culpas after election defeats. Its a cliche at this point. What are they supposed to say? It doesn't mean, per se, that a particular election is fatal or that wholesale changes are inevitable or even necessary.

But you are saying that they ARE necessary. I'm asking you what and how, but you've nothing to say.

I've already said we know where Bernie is coming from. He wants full-on public funding of healthcare, education, minimum wage and all the rest. Even if the Dems had won the election, he'd still be working to achieve that stuff, preaching that both parties have left the "little" people behind, as he has for decades. There is a reason he has been an independent for so long.

I've no idea what Biden thinks the Dems should be doing. I suspect, given his roots, he knows all about the places like his hometown Scranton, but how receptive are a demographic like working class whites who've been moving away from the Dems since the 70s to campaigning on jobs programmes when they've unrealistic expectations about factories that left town and are scared into thinking Democrats are going to take their guns away, are giving free stuff to lazy, urban minorities and are uncomfortable with gay rights? But, I'll wait and see if he expands on what he thinks the Dems need to do.

Once again, I seriously doubt a famously liberal politician like Joe will have the same perspective YOU do on the topic, whatever your perspective is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 17, 2017, 02:31:32 AM
Joe Biden actually said it in JULY, 3 1/2 months BEFORE the election but nice try trying to play it off as an after the fact mea cupla
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 17, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:17:52 PM
It's not just me saying it......you just have your head in the sand and can't face reality.  It's going to be a very long 4 years for you

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-working-class-231326

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from."

Saying WHAT though??

No doubt Bernie wants stuff such as increased public assistance to combat poverty and addiction, single-payer healthcare, free public college and so forth. We know what HE thinks the Dems need to double down on.

I'm pretty sure what HE wants is diametrically opposed to what YOU, a conservative, thinks these people want from their government.

The question is what YOU think they need to do. I've laid out a list of options on which white conservatives, including working class, oppose the Democrats. So what do they need to change their approach on?

So I have now given you direct quotes from both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden stating that the elite of the Democratic Party has turned its back on and cannot speak to the regular working people and you're still in denial that that's why you lost the election

While all the issues you list are the MOST important issues to the progressive wing of the party, my guess is that the swing voters in the swing states are more interested in jobs, education, healthcare, public safety, and college affordability.

Whitey, seriously, why bother?

Your last paragraph illustrates beautifully the confusion in the ranks of the rank and file and the disconnect between the Democratic people and the upper echelon people who are completely and utterly out of touch with their base.

You can lead a horse to water and all that but the fact is, as bad as Trump is, Clinton and the democrats are worse, you just need to look at the last eight years and the way they campaigned for the presidency, I am delighted to say they got what they deserved, not in Trump, but in losing the election, and no matter how good or bad Trump is, the country spoke and they threw the democrats out on their collective holes!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 17, 2017, 03:08:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 17, 2017, 02:31:32 AM
Joe Biden actually said it in JULY, 3 1/2 months BEFORE the election but nice try trying to play it off as an after the fact mea cupla

Doesn't change my point one bit whether he is reacting to the actual vote or a trend in polls.

1. Joe, the Dems got butt-fucked by the white working class in the election. What does this mean going forward?

2. Joe, the polls are showing a serious lack of support for Democrats among white working class. What does this mean for the election and how can the Dems avoid a butt-f**king?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 17, 2017, 03:10:02 PM
Quote from: stew on January 17, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:17:52 PM
It's not just me saying it......you just have your head in the sand and can't face reality.  It's going to be a very long 4 years for you

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-working-class-231326

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from."

Saying WHAT though??

No doubt Bernie wants stuff such as increased public assistance to combat poverty and addiction, single-payer healthcare, free public college and so forth. We know what HE thinks the Dems need to double down on.

I'm pretty sure what HE wants is diametrically opposed to what YOU, a conservative, thinks these people want from their government.

The question is what YOU think they need to do. I've laid out a list of options on which white conservatives, including working class, oppose the Democrats. So what do they need to change their approach on?

So I have now given you direct quotes from both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden stating that the elite of the Democratic Party has turned its back on and cannot speak to the regular working people and you're still in denial that that's why you lost the election

While all the issues you list are the MOST important issues to the progressive wing of the party, my guess is that the swing voters in the swing states are more interested in jobs, education, healthcare, public safety, and college affordability.

Whitey, seriously, why bother?

Your last paragraph illustrates beautifully the confusion in the ranks of the rank and file and the disconnect between the Democratic people and the upper echelon people who are completely and utterly out of touch with their base.

You can lead a horse to water and all that but the fact is, as bad as Trump is, Clinton and the democrats are worse, you just need to look at the last eight years and the way they campaigned for the presidency, I am delighted to say they got what they deserved, not in Trump, but in losing the election, and no matter how good or bad Trump is, the country spoke and they threw the democrats out on their collective holes!

Why bother indeed when details and specifics are asked for, same as yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 17, 2017, 09:15:31 PM
For an ex-president on a budget. I'll make an exception this time and give him some help to find a cheap fare. With thanks to Expedia.

Washington DC Dulles to Nairobi

10:00a - 10:25a +1 Flight spans 1 day
Ethiopian Airlines
16h 25m
IAD - NBO
1 stop
1h 5m in ADD
$717.72  Live $717 .72
Live

one way

10:00a to 7:10a 13h 10m  Overnight · Arrives Sat, Jan 21
Washington to Addis Ababa
Washington Dulles Intl. (IAD) to Bole Intl. (ADD)
Ethiopian Airlines 501
Economy / Coach (H)
BOEING 777-200LR
layover 1h 5m stop Addis Ababa (ADD)
8:15a to 10:25a 2h 10m


Addis Ababa to Nairobi
Bole Intl. (ADD) to Jomo Kenyatta Intl. (NBO)
Ethiopian Airlines 302
Economy / Coach (H)
Boeing 737-800
Seats
Preview availability
Bag fees
Unable to retrieve baggage fees

Who said I wasn't charitable, eh eamon? ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 17, 2017, 09:38:07 PM
Egg all over their faces!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahkMA6JPOHU

Love it! Now anyone hear from those celebs who said they'd leave the states?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 17, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
There will be some crying now Chelsea Manning's sentence has been commuted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 17, 2017, 11:15:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 17, 2017, 03:10:02 PM
Quote from: stew on January 17, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:17:52 PM
It's not just me saying it......you just have your head in the sand and can't face reality.  It's going to be a very long 4 years for you

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-working-class-231326

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from."

Saying WHAT though??

No doubt Bernie wants stuff such as increased public assistance to combat poverty and addiction, single-payer healthcare, free public college and so forth. We know what HE thinks the Dems need to double down on.

I'm pretty sure what HE wants is diametrically opposed to what YOU, a conservative, thinks these people want from their government.

The question is what YOU think they need to do. I've laid out a list of options on which white conservatives, including working class, oppose the Democrats. So what do they need to change their approach on?

So I have now given you direct quotes from both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden stating that the elite of the Democratic Party has turned its back on and cannot speak to the regular working people and you're still in denial that that's why you lost the election

While all the issues you list are the MOST important issues to the progressive wing of the party, my guess is that the swing voters in the swing states are more interested in jobs, education, healthcare, public safety, and college affordability.

Whitey, seriously, why bother?

Your last paragraph illustrates beautifully the confusion in the ranks of the rank and file and the disconnect between the Democratic people and the upper echelon people who are completely and utterly out of touch with their base.

You can lead a horse to water and all that but the fact is, as bad as Trump is, Clinton and the democrats are worse, you just need to look at the last eight years and the way they campaigned for the presidency, I am delighted to say they got what they deserved, not in Trump, but in losing the election, and no matter how good or bad Trump is, the country spoke and they threw the democrats out on their collective holes!

Why bother indeed when details and specifics are asked for, same as yourself.

Well we all can't see I,to the future like yourself, sure the Donald is going to tuck everything up, catch youself on man dear, be .canot be any worse than the gimp leaving office in a couple of days.

The white working class screwed nobody, they simply knew the crats took their votes as a given.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2017, 02:07:26 AM
Quote from: stew on January 17, 2017, 11:15:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 17, 2017, 03:10:02 PM
Quote from: stew on January 17, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:17:52 PM
It's not just me saying it......you just have your head in the sand and can't face reality.  It's going to be a very long 4 years for you

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-working-class-231326

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from."

Saying WHAT though??

No doubt Bernie wants stuff such as increased public assistance to combat poverty and addiction, single-payer healthcare, free public college and so forth. We know what HE thinks the Dems need to double down on.

I'm pretty sure what HE wants is diametrically opposed to what YOU, a conservative, thinks these people want from their government.

The question is what YOU think they need to do. I've laid out a list of options on which white conservatives, including working class, oppose the Democrats. So what do they need to change their approach on?

So I have now given you direct quotes from both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden stating that the elite of the Democratic Party has turned its back on and cannot speak to the regular working people and you're still in denial that that's why you lost the election

While all the issues you list are the MOST important issues to the progressive wing of the party, my guess is that the swing voters in the swing states are more interested in jobs, education, healthcare, public safety, and college affordability.

Whitey, seriously, why bother?

Your last paragraph illustrates beautifully the confusion in the ranks of the rank and file and the disconnect between the Democratic people and the upper echelon people who are completely and utterly out of touch with their base.

You can lead a horse to water and all that but the fact is, as bad as Trump is, Clinton and the democrats are worse, you just need to look at the last eight years and the way they campaigned for the presidency, I am delighted to say they got what they deserved, not in Trump, but in losing the election, and no matter how good or bad Trump is, the country spoke and they threw the democrats out on their collective holes!

Why bother indeed when details and specifics are asked for, same as yourself.

Well we all can't see I,to the future like yourself, sure the Donald is going to tuck everything up, catch youself on man dear, be .canot be any worse than the gimp leaving office in a couple of days.

The white working class screwed nobody, they simply knew the crats took their votes as a given.

Is this a response to me?

What has any of that got to do with whitey perpetually telling us the Dems and us liberals need to cop on, but how exactly we should address our apparent issues is a mystery?

I never said the working class screwed anyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 17, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
There will be some crying now Chelsea Manning's sentence has been commuted.

I thought the whole wikileaks thing was now considered heroic on the right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 18, 2017, 10:15:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2017, 02:07:26 AM
Quote from: stew on January 17, 2017, 11:15:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 17, 2017, 03:10:02 PM
Quote from: stew on January 17, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2017, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2017, 11:17:52 PM
It's not just me saying it......you just have your head in the sand and can't face reality.  It's going to be a very long 4 years for you

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-working-class-231326

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from."

Saying WHAT though??

No doubt Bernie wants stuff such as increased public assistance to combat poverty and addiction, single-payer healthcare, free public college and so forth. We know what HE thinks the Dems need to double down on.

I'm pretty sure what HE wants is diametrically opposed to what YOU, a conservative, thinks these people want from their government.

The question is what YOU think they need to do. I've laid out a list of options on which white conservatives, including working class, oppose the Democrats. So what do they need to change their approach on?

So I have now given you direct quotes from both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden stating that the elite of the Democratic Party has turned its back on and cannot speak to the regular working people and you're still in denial that that's why you lost the election

While all the issues you list are the MOST important issues to the progressive wing of the party, my guess is that the swing voters in the swing states are more interested in jobs, education, healthcare, public safety, and college affordability.

Whitey, seriously, why bother?

Your last paragraph illustrates beautifully the confusion in the ranks of the rank and file and the disconnect between the Democratic people and the upper echelon people who are completely and utterly out of touch with their base.

You can lead a horse to water and all that but the fact is, as bad as Trump is, Clinton and the democrats are worse, you just need to look at the last eight years and the way they campaigned for the presidency, I am delighted to say they got what they deserved, not in Trump, but in losing the election, and no matter how good or bad Trump is, the country spoke and they threw the democrats out on their collective holes!

Why bother indeed when details and specifics are asked for, same as yourself.

Well we all can't see I,to the future like yourself, sure the Donald is going to tuck everything up, catch youself on man dear, be .canot be any worse than the gimp leaving office in a couple of days.

The white working class screwed nobody, they simply knew the crats took their votes as a given.

Is this a response to me?

What has any of that got to do with whitey perpetually telling us the Dems and us liberals need to cop on, but how exactly we should address our apparent issues is a mystery?

I never said the working class screwed anyone.

I didn't say you needed to cop on........I (and Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders) said that the Dems needed to address the issues that are most important to their hardworking working and middle class voters......things such as taxes, healthcare, public safety, jobs and education. If you think they addressed them adequately during the election....that's your opinion......but not the opinion of many others  including people like Joe Biden, Ed Rendell and Bernie Sanders
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2017, 02:20:44 PM
Like I said, if and when those people or yourself have something specific or substantive to offer rather than vague platitudes lamenting the alienation of these people, which has been ongoing for decades, I'll absolutely listen and discuss.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 18, 2017, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 17, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
There will be some crying now Chelsea Manning's sentence has been commuted.

I thought the whole wikileaks thing was now considered heroic on the right?

Yeah they all love wikileaks now since it helped them win the election... you couldn't make it up!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2017, 03:07:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 18, 2017, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 17, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
There will be some crying now Chelsea Manning's sentence has been commuted.

I thought the whole wikileaks thing was now considered heroic on the right?

Yeah they all love wikileaks now since it helped them win the election... you couldn't make it up!!!
77

Meanwhile at the ranch, The President of the US commutes the sentence of someone who sold state secrets, some of you have no shame ffs! Forget republican or Democrat for the moment, who the f**k does that? and how can you justify it?

If the American people are not outraged about this what would it take to get them outraged???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 18, 2017, 03:08:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 18, 2017, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 17, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
There will be some crying now Chelsea Manning's sentence has been commuted.

I thought the whole wikileaks thing was now considered heroic on the right?

Yeah they all love wikileaks now since it helped them win the election... you couldn't make it up!!!

I'm not sure how much outrage there'll be.....haven't heard anywhere near as much as I anticipated. 

I have 3 immediate family members (in my wife's family)who fought in Iraq/Afghanistan and not a peep about this on any of their Facebook feeds

I think he/she actually did the country a great service.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2017, 03:34:31 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2017, 03:07:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 18, 2017, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 17, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
There will be some crying now Chelsea Manning's sentence has been commuted.

I thought the whole wikileaks thing was now considered heroic on the right?

Yeah they all love wikileaks now since it helped them win the election... you couldn't make it up!!!
77

Meanwhile at the ranch, The President of the US commutes the sentence of someone who sold state secrets, some of you have no shame ffs! Forget republican or Democrat for the moment, who the f**k does that? and how can you justify it?

If the American people are not outraged about this what would it take to get them outraged???

1. Did Manning sell this info or merely leak it?

2. I've mixed feelings about the likes of Manning and Snowden. Is it such a bad thing if the whistle is blown on government cover-ups of military f**k-ups and misconduct and warrant-less phone tapping and the likes? Outing agents and so forth is a different matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 18, 2017, 03:38:17 PM
QuoteMeanwhile at the ranch, The President of the US commutes the sentence of someone who sold state secrets, some of you have no shame ffs! Forget republican or Democrat for the moment, who the f**k does that? and how can you justify it?

If the American people are not outraged about this what would it take to get them outraged??

My understanding is that they weren't top secret so therefore not risking lives when the information became known to the wider public. A guy on the radio this morning explained it as the information Manning leaked was available to a widespread audience and not marked top secret on the basis that it wasn't putting American lives in danger hence the surprise at the length of the original sentence so no real surprise that he was pardoned. Whereas Snowden is a different level?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on January 18, 2017, 04:00:02 PM
Why was he pardoned though? Because he thinks he's a woman?
the internet is blowing up over this ha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 18, 2017, 04:29:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2dp3N1W8AAuhHi.jpg:large)

That liberal rag the NYT got it pretty spot on in terms of Obama's record on whistle blowers ;) ;)

Also here's the video produced with Manning's voice juxtaposed over the 'Collateral Murder' video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L79wWAFUqg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L79wWAFUqg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 18, 2017, 04:47:01 PM
Nothing yet on Leonnard Peltier.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 20, 2017, 03:38:49 PM
(http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/article_images/trump_inauguration_getty.jpg?itok=RYq9El-g)

It's party time! First go on the piñata for Donald.
Order restored... media, celebrities and political correctness put back in their boxes.

I wish I could watch CNN all day to watch them cry. That is TV gold.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 04:17:29 PM
Trump is a turd. I wonder how long before his voters realise it was a scam.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 04:32:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 04:17:29 PM
Trump is a turd. I wonder how long before his voters realise it was a scam.

I think buyers remorse is already kicking in. Lowest approval rating for a President at inauguration in history. I give him two years, max. Lets hope he doesn't do too much damage in that time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on January 20, 2017, 04:34:00 PM
Is there any hope still that he'll announce that he was only running for the craic?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 20, 2017, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 04:17:29 PM
Trump is a turd. I wonder how long before his voters realise it was a scam.

Obama was a scam, Clinton would have been a scam, people who did not like him because your candidate was a turd, neither candidate was worth a shit, I hope he proves me long, best of luck President Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on January 20, 2017, 04:39:50 PM
Quote from: stew on January 20, 2017, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 04:17:29 PM
Trump is a turd. I wonder how long before his voters realise it was a scam.

Obama was a scam, Clinton would have been a scam, people who did not like him because your candidate was a turd, neither candidate was worth a shit, I hope he proves me long, best of luck President Trump.

Is that you Stew in the 3rd row?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 20, 2017, 04:46:20 PM
Always amazes me how there can be so much God bothering at a presidential inauguration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 20, 2017, 05:16:53 PM
This is a hard watch. He's not a very impressive speaker. He keeps saying the same thing over and over again, in different ways.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 20, 2017, 05:21:38 PM
Good luck to the new President. Hopefully he does a great job, and none of our fears come through.

I have no problem with somebody putting their own country first. That's no more than you would expect.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on January 20, 2017, 05:23:21 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 20, 2017, 04:46:20 PM
Always amazes me how there can be so much God bothering at a presidential inauguration.

Religious fundamentalists ........
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 20, 2017, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2017, 05:16:53 PM
This is a hard watch. He's not a very impressive speaker. He keeps saying the same thing over and over again, in different ways.

What's worse is that a presumably professional speechwriter was paid to come up with that muck  :( :( :(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on January 20, 2017, 05:29:16 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 20, 2017, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2017, 05:16:53 PM
This is a hard watch. He's not a very impressive speaker. He keeps saying the same thing over and over again, in different ways.

What's worse is that a presumably professional speechwriter was paid to come up with that muck  :( :( :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ybv4DOj-N0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 20, 2017, 05:34:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 20, 2017, 04:34:00 PM
Is there any hope still that he'll announce that he was only running for the craic?
Was hoping that would be the case but the shit has hit the fan now!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 20, 2017, 05:58:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2017, 05:16:53 PM
This is a hard watch. He's not a very impressive speaker. He keeps saying the same thing over and over again, in different ways.
It generally helps to be able to read when making a speech.

President Poodle isn't very good at that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 05:59:34 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2017, 05:21:38 PM
Good luck to the new President. Hopefully he does a great job, and none of our fears come through.

I have no problem with somebody putting their own country first. That's no more than you would expect.
Plamas. He will put the ultra rich first. Look at his cabinet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on January 20, 2017, 06:08:26 PM
Such a negative speech. The clapping sounded recorded and the mall was almost empty.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on January 20, 2017, 06:09:41 PM
A couple of toons from my friend Carlos   

(https://hunasotak.com/sites/hunaamsterdam.com/files/styles/huna_full_medium/public/donald_trump_president_of_the_united_states.jpg?itok=Sf_P57oq&timestamp=1484906572)

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/15578858_757090784429541_6401716617674151629_n.jpg?oh=3e13c52a7bf1b22b377a21cd6d9c87b6&oe=590F364E)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 06:51:01 PM
All the shite about God. Why didn't God make sure Lehman Bros wasn't leveraged 27 to 1?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 20, 2017, 06:56:15 PM
As speeches go thats about the worst i seen from an incoming president! Start as you mean to continue! If he sees out the first 2 years he do well! How excately is he going to get these jobs all bck when america up to the balls in debt to the chinese! It not affect him; he still be a billionaire in 4 yrs time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on January 20, 2017, 06:57:23 PM
When he says that he will "execute the office of President of the United States", are you sure he does not want to terminate it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on January 20, 2017, 07:07:17 PM
The writers of Batman be angry seeing as he ripped of Bane's speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2017, 07:27:11 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 20, 2017, 06:56:15 PM
As speeches go thats about the worst i seen from an incoming president! Start as you mean to continue! If he sees out the first 2 years he do well! How excately is he going to get these jobs all bck when america up to the balls in debt to the chinese! It not affect him; he still be a billionaire in 4 yrs time

Word is he himself is also up to his balls in debt to the Chinese!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2017, 07:28:55 PM
His Secretary of State to be was making noise about preventing the Chinese from accessing those islands they built in the South China Sea.

How he is going to go about remains to be seen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2017, 07:35:47 PM
Apparently they've already removed references to climate change from the White House website. LBGT stuff too.

Promising start to the age of delusion and conspiracy theory!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 20, 2017, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2017, 07:27:11 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 20, 2017, 06:56:15 PM
As speeches go thats about the worst i seen from an incoming president! Start as you mean to continue! If he sees out the first 2 years he do well! How excately is he going to get these jobs all bck when america up to the balls in debt to the chinese! It not affect him; he still be a billionaire in 4 yrs time

Word is he himself is also up to his balls in debt to the Chinese!

You really have your finger on the pulse!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2017, 08:03:21 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 20, 2017, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2017, 07:27:11 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 20, 2017, 06:56:15 PM
As speeches go thats about the worst i seen from an incoming president! Start as you mean to continue! If he sees out the first 2 years he do well! How excately is he going to get these jobs all bck when america up to the balls in debt to the chinese! It not affect him; he still be a billionaire in 4 yrs time

Word is he himself is also up to his balls in debt to the Chinese!

You really have your finger on the pulse!!

Not really.

But the reports are out there, including his loans from the Chinese state bank.

Of course, Trump isn't very transparent about his finances and debt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on January 20, 2017, 08:13:37 PM
Sure isn't Trump's day job since he went belly up in the 90s to be the front man for the brand? Slap the name on something and do a few PR calls. Probably makes him more quailifed to be a politician than most.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 20, 2017, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 06:51:01 PM
All the shite about God. Why didn't God make sure Lehman Bros wasn't leveraged 27 to 1?

Free will dear boy, free will. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 20, 2017, 09:22:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 20, 2017, 06:56:15 PM
As speeches go thats about the worst i seen from an incoming president! Start as you mean to continue! If he sees out the first 2 years he do well! How excately is he going to get these jobs all bck when america up to the balls in debt to the chinese! It not affect him; he still be a billionaire in 4 yrs time

So you are hoping he is going to do well then?  :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 20, 2017, 09:24:00 PM
Boys and girls he cannot possibly be any worse than that useless bastard that just left the white house, bottom five President ever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 20, 2017, 09:37:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on January 20, 2017, 06:08:26 PM
Such a negative speech. The clapping sounded recorded and the mall was almost empty.

Right enough, sure nobody wanted him in the first place........oh wait  ::)

The dems had to have queen Hillary, rigged the primary against Bernie and their beloved candidate got the sh it kicked out of her by President Trump, good enough for the cheating lying Bastards!  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 20, 2017, 09:43:33 PM
72.7million people didn't want him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 09:56:40 PM
I think he will be assassinated
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 20, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 20, 2017, 09:43:33 PM
72.7million people didn't want him

Doesn't matter a flcuk......he won the votes of tha people that mattered

She outspent him 2:1

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/


She started off with a huge electoral college advantage

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/02/republicans-have-a-massive-electoral-map-problem-that-has-nothing-to-do-with-donald-trump/


And she still didn't win!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 20, 2017, 10:06:35 PM
Now its time to talk the talk.
It will be interesting to see how his actions over the first hundred days live up to the expectations he has given to his supporters.
His America First protectionism cannot sit to well with the GB brexit negotiators though I am sure it will be music to the ears of Beijing and Moscow.
His promise to bring back jobs will not sit well with the venture capitalists and money first men he has packed his cabinet with.

I hope he can live up to the expectations he has set for himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2017, 10:11:23 PM
Quote from: stew on January 20, 2017, 09:24:00 PM
Boys and girls he cannot possibly be any worse than that useless b**tard that just left the white house, bottom five President ever.

You cannot possibly make a serious argument that he is in the bottom five.

That is if you have any clue about the presidential history.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 20, 2017, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2017, 10:11:23 PM
You cannot possibly make a serious argument that he is in the bottom five.

That is if you have any clue about the presidential history.

You're right. Bottom two.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 20, 2017, 10:22:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 20, 2017, 09:43:33 PM
72.7million people didn't want him

Bullshit, the figure is probably closer to 110 million, you forget the people who voted for him because they hated Clinton for the hateful turd  that she is!

Few wanted this and you dems brought it on yourselves so f**k youse, I have no sympathy for ye at all at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 20, 2017, 10:39:58 PM
It's always a great day when a criminal leaves office, hopefully the last criminal US President of our time and thank God we dodged the Hillary bullet which really added to the day.

The only issue now is who is going to protect us from Unicorn farts?

Fantastic speech, great to see he is not giving in to the bullying of the enemy which includes the Neocons.

Hopefully our President's first call to action is to get rid of The Federal Reserve as the issuer of currency and their collection agency the IRS.
The FRB is already on it's knees, now it's time to finish them off which Trump is all for. The last President to attempt this was JFK and we all know what happened to him. Speaking of JFK, our last great President, he has a lot to answer for in the dumbing down of the Irish people which is well evident in this forum.

The Rent-A-Mob scenes also brought a smile to my face.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 20, 2017, 10:48:52 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 20, 2017, 10:39:58 PM
The Rent-A-Mob scenes also brought a smile to my face.

Hilarious. Knocking over bins. Way to protest!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 20, 2017, 11:43:45 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 20, 2017, 10:39:58 PM
It's always a great day when a criminal leaves office, hopefully the last criminal US President of our time and thank God we dodged the Hillary bullet which really added to the day.

The only issue now is who is going to protect us from Unicorn farts?

Fantastic speech, great to see he is not giving in to the bullying of the enemy which includes the Neocons.

Hopefully our President's first call to action is to get rid of The Federal Reserve as the issuer of currency and their collection agency the IRS.
The FRB is already on it's knees, now it's time to finish them off which Trump is all for. The last President to attempt this was JFK and we all know what happened to him. Speaking of JFK, our last great President, he has a lot to answer for in the dumbing down of the Irish people which is well evident in this forum.

The Rent-A-Mob scenes also brought a smile to my face.
Have you found the giant lizards yet, mate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 21, 2017, 01:21:41 AM
Quote from: stew on January 20, 2017, 09:24:00 PM
Boys and girls he cannot possibly be any worse than that useless b**tard that just left the white house, bottom five President ever.

This is an interesting claim given that none of us would reasonably believe you could name more than three of them without resorting to Google.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 21, 2017, 02:14:09 AM
Michael flatleys dancers getting a run out at inaugural ball ,it's unreal the bitterness I've seen on Twitter coming from Ireland over this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 21, 2017, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 21, 2017, 01:21:41 AM
Quote from: stew on January 20, 2017, 09:24:00 PM
Boys and girls he cannot possibly be any worse than that useless b**tard that just left the white house, bottom five President ever.

This is an interesting claim given that none of us would reasonably believe you could name more than three of them without resorting to Google.

Don't judge others by your own level of stupidity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 21, 2017, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 20, 2017, 10:39:58 PM
It's always a great day when a criminal leaves office, hopefully the last criminal US President of our time and thank God we dodged the Hillary bullet which really added to the day.

The only issue now is who is going to protect us from Unicorn farts?

Fantastic speech, great to see he is not giving in to the bullying of the enemy which includes the Neocons.

Hopefully our President's first call to action is to get rid of The Federal Reserve as the issuer of currency and their collection agency the IRS.
The FRB is already on it's knees, now it's time to finish them off which Trump is all for. The last President to attempt this was JFK and we all know what happened to him. Speaking of JFK, our last great President, he has a lot to answer for in the dumbing down of the Irish people which is well evident in this forum.

The Rent-A-Mob scenes also brought a smile to my face.
What would you replace the FR & IS with out of interest?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 21, 2017, 12:30:12 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 21, 2017, 01:21:41 AM
Quote from: stew on January 20, 2017, 09:24:00 PM
Boys and girls he cannot possibly be any worse than that useless b**tard that just left the white house, bottom five President ever.

This is an interesting claim given that none of us would reasonably believe you could name more than three of them without resorting to Google.

So you speak for everyone now do you bladder?

Tell us some more about the lovely, expensive whiskeys you love to store and imbibe, fascinating stuff altogether.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 21, 2017, 12:33:01 PM
Quote from: stew on January 21, 2017, 12:30:12 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 21, 2017, 01:21:41 AM
Quote from: stew on January 20, 2017, 09:24:00 PM
Boys and girls he cannot possibly be any worse than that useless b**tard that just left the white house, bottom five President ever.

This is an interesting claim given that none of us would reasonably believe you could name more than three of them without resorting to Google.

So you speak for everyone now do you bladder?

Tell us some more about the lovely, expensive whiskeys you love to store and imbibe, fascinating stuff altogether.

;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 21, 2017, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 09:56:40 PM
I think he will be assassinated

Wanna bet?

If the last tube didn't get the dart this one won't!

By the way, I loved the way the liberals made a show of themselves boycotting the inauguration, classless arsehokes, especially the Hollywood maggots, the thing is over, you lost now f**k off for another four years, oh and one last thing, not one of the tubes that was going to move to Canada if Trump won did so, useless Bastards all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 21, 2017, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: stew on January 21, 2017, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 09:56:40 PM
I think he will be assassinated

Wanna bet?

If the last tube didn't get the dart this one won't!

By the way, I loved the way the liberals made a show of themselves boycotting the inauguration, classless arsehokes, especially the Hollywood maggots, the thing is over, you lost now f**k off for another four years, oh and one last thing, not one of the tubes that was going to move to Canada if Trump won did so, useless b**tards all.

Democrats indeed. The hypocrisy about honouring the result showed these protestors in their true light.

These Hilary supporting celebs u-turned and have stated that the world will be a better place if they stay exactly where they are. You can't listen to a word they utter - that's just been proved. And morons actually pay attention to these "stars". Good grief.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 21, 2017, 12:55:14 PM
The two most renowned wits on the board coming together. An intellectual force to be reckoned with  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on January 21, 2017, 12:57:14 PM
I wish people across the world would start telling us FG are a dead cert for the next Government. Nothing like being told what to think by outsiders to get the opposite result.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 21, 2017, 01:47:18 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 21, 2017, 12:55:14 PM
The two most renowned wits on the board coming together. An intellectual force to be reckoned with  ::)

Suck it up numpty.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 21, 2017, 02:09:19 PM
Suck what up exactly? Are you under the impression that you have won whatever this is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 21, 2017, 02:30:09 PM
I am under the impression you are thick as champ. Least you have the whiskey. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 21, 2017, 03:10:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 21, 2017, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 09:56:40 PM
I think he will be assassinated

Wanna bet?

If the last tube didn't get the dart this one won't!

By the way, I loved the way the liberals made a show of themselves boycotting the inauguration, classless arsehokes, especially the Hollywood maggots, the thing is over, you lost now f**k off for another four years, oh and one last thing, not one of the tubes that was going to move to Canada if Trump won did so, useless b**tards all.

Yes, because this kind of histrionics never occurs on the right. Ted Nugent never said he would be dead or in jail within a year if the "subhuman" Obama was reelected. None of THEM were saying they'd leave the country. We didn't have a slew of secession petitions in 2012/13.

And you, of all people, calling people "classless" with the hysterical, idiotic, conspiracy shite you come out with with respect to Hillary!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 21, 2017, 03:24:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 21, 2017, 12:55:14 PM
The two most renowned wits on the board coming together. An intellectual force to be reckoned with  ::)

Coming from just about the dumbest arrogant git on the board your opinion means nothing bladdy!6
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 21, 2017, 03:28:56 PM
Trump, November 7, 2012:

We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and prevent this travesty. Our nation is totally divided.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 21, 2017, 03:39:52 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 21, 2017, 02:30:09 PM
I am under the impression you are thick as champ. Least you have the whiskey. ;D ;D ;D

More than either of you have going on between your ears.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armamike on January 21, 2017, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: stew on January 21, 2017, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2017, 09:56:40 PM
I think he will be assassinated

Wanna bet?

If the last tube didn't get the dart this one won't!

By the way, I loved the way the liberals made a show of themselves boycotting the inauguration, classless arsehokes, especially the Hollywood maggots, the thing is over, you lost now f**k off for another four years, oh and one last thing, not one of the tubes that was going to move to Canada if Trump won did so, useless b**tards all.

Yeah don't you just hate those folk who don't follow up on their promises. Let's see how the wall project goes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 21, 2017, 03:46:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 21, 2017, 03:28:56 PM
Trump, November 7, 2012:

We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and prevent this travesty. Our nation is totally divided.
did anyone march though?
I don't have a problem with protesting but when the protesters smash windows ,burn property ,attack police and shut down roadways stopping people from traveling freely I feel that the law should come down on them like a tone of bricks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 21, 2017, 04:23:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 21, 2017, 03:46:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 21, 2017, 03:28:56 PM
Trump, November 7, 2012:

We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and prevent this travesty. Our nation is totally divided.
did anyone march though?
I don't have a problem with protesting but when the protesters smash windows ,burn property ,attack police and shut down roadways stopping people from traveling freely I feel that the law should come down on them like a tone of bricks.

Absolutely agree.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 21, 2017, 08:36:23 PM
Is anybody watching this shambolic carry on (you couldn't call it a speech) at Langley. Absolutely jaw-dropping. Apart from the self congratulatory bombast and the peevish point scoring, it makes Jolene Bunting look like Cicero.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on January 21, 2017, 08:44:32 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 21, 2017, 08:36:23 PM
Is anybody watching this shambolic carry on (you couldn't call it a speech) at Langley. Absolutely jaw-dropping. Apart from the self congratulatory bombast and the peevish point scoring, it makes Jolene Bunting look like Cicero.

It's car crash stuff it really is..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Imposerous on January 21, 2017, 10:06:26 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 21, 2017, 08:36:23 PM
Is anybody watching this shambolic carry on (you couldn't call it a speech) at Langley. Absolutely jaw-dropping. Apart from the self congratulatory bombast and the peevish point scoring, it makes Jolene Bunting look like Cicero.

+1. Shocking stuff.  A buffoon.  A dangerous buffoon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 21, 2017, 10:12:02 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2017, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 20, 2017, 10:39:58 PM
It's always a great day when a criminal leaves office, hopefully the last criminal US President of our time and thank God we dodged the Hillary bullet which really added to the day.

The only issue now is who is going to protect us from Unicorn farts?

Fantastic speech, great to see he is not giving in to the bullying of the enemy which includes the Neocons.

Hopefully our President's first call to action is to get rid of The Federal Reserve as the issuer of currency and their collection agency the IRS.
The FRB is already on it's knees, now it's time to finish them off which Trump is all for. The last President to attempt this was JFK and we all know what happened to him. Speaking of JFK, our last great President, he has a lot to answer for in the dumbing down of the Irish people which is well evident in this forum.

The Rent-A-Mob scenes also brought a smile to my face.
What would you replace the FR & IS with out of interest?

Do you actually know who The Federal Reserve are and where the income taxes generated by the IRS go? If you do you should be well able to answer your own question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 21, 2017, 10:22:42 PM
Thought it was a pretty straightforward question, thought you might have a straightforward answer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 21, 2017, 10:28:42 PM
+1
Yep I would love to read his answer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 21, 2017, 11:21:54 PM
The President says he is going to focus on American jobs and is going to put America first, I have no problem with either of those statements, for the life of me I have no idea why he would alienate countries that the States has great relationships with, he sort of did that.

That forum was not one to bash what came before, he did that and it sullied proceedings in doing so, Obama in my opinion was brutal but time and place and all that.

it is going to be fascinating to see what sort of job he is going to do, no one knows, the amount on here that know he is going to be a disaster is ridiculous, the fact is we know nothing, the party will have to rein him in from time to time and they will, Paul Ryan is no dozer and the party will no doubt rail against him from time to time.

I think history will show that he was an decent President, he will do me if he does in fact help those in inner cities, revamps industry and creates jobs as well as hammers the shit out of ISIS and tightens the borders, elects a conservative Supreme Court Judge and revamps Obamacare and reduces the 20 trillion debt by 25%.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 21, 2017, 11:51:03 PM
As a president history will be kind to Obama and what greatly helps his legacy is that he was a decent and popular individual unlike the current president. Of course a few of his haters won't ever see or want to believe he did a good job in office and when Trump now does a terrible job which he more than likely will, his followers will look to blame Obama for Trumps woes.

US politics god bless it indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 12:06:42 AM
President Poodle's press secretary has just held his first press briefing.

He shouted for five minutes, berates a tweet, tries to claim the crowds at Poodle's inauguration were "the biggest ever"  ;D ;D ;D, and then storms off without answering any questions.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, they're making this so easy.

Sean Spicer, you are FAKE NEWS.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 21, 2017, 10:12:02 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2017, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 20, 2017, 10:39:58 PM
It's always a great day when a criminal leaves office, hopefully the last criminal US President of our time and thank God we dodged the Hillary bullet which really added to the day.

The only issue now is who is going to protect us from Unicorn farts?

Fantastic speech, great to see he is not giving in to the bullying of the enemy which includes the Neocons.

Hopefully our President's first call to action is to get rid of The Federal Reserve as the issuer of currency and their collection agency the IRS.
The FRB is already on it's knees, now it's time to finish them off which Trump is all for. The last President to attempt this was JFK and we all know what happened to him. Speaking of JFK, our last great President, he has a lot to answer for in the dumbing down of the Irish people which is well evident in this forum.

The Rent-A-Mob scenes also brought a smile to my face.
What would you replace the FR & IS with out of interest?

Do you actually know who The Federal Reserve are and where the income taxes generated by the IRS go? If you do you should be well able to answer your own question.
That's not an answer to the question, mate.

Good luck chasing the giant lizards.

You'll need it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: stew on January 21, 2017, 11:21:54 PM
I think history will show that he was an decent President,
Woah, one day in and you're already out with the sycophantic historical rankings.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 22, 2017, 12:11:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 12:06:42 AM
President Poodle's press secretary has just held his first press briefing.

He shouted for five minutes, berates a tweet, tries to claim the crowds at Poodle's inauguration were "the biggest ever"  ;D ;D ;D, and then storms off without answering any questions.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, they're making this so easy.

Sean Spicer, you are FAKE NEWS.

Time Magazine falsely reported that Trump removed MLK's bust from the Oval Office.....I don't blame Spicer one bit for being outraged.  That is serious incitement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on January 22, 2017, 12:15:40 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 21, 2017, 11:51:03 PM
As a president history will be kind to Obama and what greatly helps his legacy is that he was a decent and popular individual unlike the current president. Of course a few of his haters won't ever see or want to believe he did a good job in office and when Trump now does a terrible job which he more than likely will, his followers will look to blame Obama for Trumps woes.

US politics god bless it indeed.

Not disagreeing but can you explain what Obama did to have a fine legacy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 12:32:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 22, 2017, 12:11:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 12:06:42 AM
President Poodle's press secretary has just held his first press briefing.

He shouted for five minutes, berates a tweet, tries to claim the crowds at Poodle's inauguration were "the biggest ever"  ;D ;D ;D, and then storms off without answering any questions.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, they're making this so easy.

Sean Spicer, you are FAKE NEWS.

Time Magazine falsely reported that Trump removed MLK's bust from the Oval Office.....I don't blame Spicer one bit for being outraged.  That is serious incitement
I get you.

If you like something, it's not incitement.

If you don't like it, it's incitement.

Er, yeah.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 12:33:52 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 21, 2017, 08:36:23 PM
Is anybody watching this shambolic carry on (you couldn't call it a speech) at Langley. Absolutely jaw-dropping. Apart from the self congratulatory bombast and the peevish point scoring, it makes Jolene Bunting look like Cicero.

(https://anglicanmemes.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/tumblr_m6sbusviel1rwuopao1_400.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2017, 01:11:05 AM
Quote from: ONeill on January 22, 2017, 12:15:40 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 21, 2017, 11:51:03 PM
As a president history will be kind to Obama and what greatly helps his legacy is that he was a decent and popular individual unlike the current president. Of course a few of his haters won't ever see or want to believe he did a good job in office and when Trump now does a terrible job which he more than likely will, his followers will look to blame Obama for Trumps woes.

US politics god bless it indeed.

Not disagreeing but can you explain what Obama did to have a fine legacy?

Obama will regret he didn't do alot of things he tried to do that the mainly republican house wouldnt honour his judgement however through it all and said elsewhere he showed no arrogance,had no mistresse and had no impeachment hearings. Just class and grace until the end
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 22, 2017, 01:29:03 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 22, 2017, 01:11:05 AM
Quote from: ONeill on January 22, 2017, 12:15:40 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 21, 2017, 11:51:03 PM
As a president history will be kind to Obama and what greatly helps his legacy is that he was a decent and popular individual unlike the current president. Of course a few of his haters won't ever see or want to believe he did a good job in office and when Trump now does a terrible job which he more than likely will, his followers will look to blame Obama for Trumps woes.

US politics god bless it indeed.

Not disagreeing but can you explain what Obama did to have a fine legacy?

Obama will regret he didn't do alot of things he tried to do that the mainly republican house wouldnt honour his judgement however through it all and said elsewhere he showed no arrogance,had no mistresse and had no impeachment hearings. Just class and grace until the end

I think he did a bit more than that! Bin Laden & Gaddafi, Cuba, actually giving healthcare access to millions that never had it previously is something to be proud of even if the system is not perfect yet... is any Country's really??

He guided the country out of recession, repealed don't ask don't tell!

He has plenty of blights on there too such as gun violence, the deficit, the American working class, failing to get Garland on the Supreme Court, closing Gitmo but those were heavily influenced by Republican intransigence!

Syria has to be a huge regret but then this President isn't going to bother with other Countries he says so it will be interesting to see how his protectionism is viewed in hindsight.

Throughout all of it he has remained a thoroughly decent man and given what has come after I think there will be fewer we can say that about in the future!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 01:59:50 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2017, 10:22:42 PM
Thought it was a pretty straightforward question, thought you might have a straightforward answer.

As expected you don't have a clue. You would not have ask the question otherwise. Don't feel too bad as 95% of the people are in your boat, that is why the FRB are able to get away with what they are doing. By watching this short 30 minute video you will get help in (at least)  two ways. You will move into the 5% category and gain the knowledge to answer your own question. Sure I could answer your question straight away but you first need to know who The Federal Reserve are and how currency is created.  Otherwise you will not understand my answer and be as uninformed as you are now.

https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0 (https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:04:21 AM


"One rainy day on January 20th, 2017, an old man approaches the White House
from across Pennsylvania Avenue where he'd been sitting on a park bench.
He speaks to the U.S. Marine standing guard and says,

"I would like to go in and meet with President Obama."
...

The Marine looks at the man and says,

"Sir, Mr. Obama is no longer president and no longer resides here."

The old man says,

"Okay," and walks away.

The following day the same man approaches the White House and says to the same Marine,

"I would like to go in and meet with President Obama."

The Marine again tells the man,

"Sir, as I said yesterday, Mr. Obama is no longer president and no longer resides here."

The man thanks him and again walks away.

On the third day, the same man approaches the White House and speaks to the very same U.S. Marine, saying,

"I would like to go in and meet with President Obama."

The Marine, understandably agitated at this point, looks at the man and says,

"Sir, this is the third day in a row you have been here asking to speak to Mr. Obama. I've told you already that Mr. Obama is no longer the president and no longer resides here. Don't you understand?"

The old man looks at the Marine and says,

"Oh, I understand. I just love hearing it."

The Marine snaps to attention, salutes, and says,

"See you tomorrow, Sir!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Imposerous on January 22, 2017, 02:33:29 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:04:21 AM


"One rainy day on January 20th, 2017, an old man approaches the White House
from across Pennsylvania Avenue where he'd been sitting on a park bench.
He speaks to the U.S. Marine standing guard and says,

"I would like to go in and meet with President Obama."
...

The Marine looks at the man and says,

"Sir, Mr. Obama is no longer president and no longer resides here."

The old man says,

"Okay," and walks away.

The following day the same man approaches the White House and says to the same Marine,

"I would like to go in and meet with President Obama."

The Marine again tells the man,

"Sir, as I said yesterday, Mr. Obama is no longer president and no longer resides here."

The man thanks him and again walks away.

On the third day, the same man approaches the White House and speaks to the very same U.S. Marine, saying,

"I would like to go in and meet with President Obama."

The Marine, understandably agitated at this point, looks at the man and says,

"Sir, this is the third day in a row you have been here asking to speak to Mr. Obama. I've told you already that Mr. Obama is no longer the president and no longer resides here. Don't you understand?"

The old man looks at the Marine and says,

"Oh, I understand. I just love hearing it."

The Marine snaps to attention, salutes, and says,

"See you tomorrow, Sir!"

.,, and on the fifth day the old man approached the Marine and told him he was unwell and poor.  And the Marine replied: "Well, get used to that bench you were sitting on 'cos, if you were seeking healthcare, it'll be your home."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 22, 2017, 02:39:02 AM
Quote from: Imposerous on January 22, 2017, 02:33:29 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:04:21 AM


"One rainy day on January 20th, 2017, an old man approaches the White House
from across Pennsylvania Avenue where he'd been sitting on a park bench.
He speaks to the U.S. Marine standing guard and says,

"I would like to go in and meet with President Obama."
...

The Marine looks at the man and says,

"Sir, Mr. Obama is no longer president and no longer resides here."

The old man says,

"Okay," and walks away.

The following day the same man approaches the White House and says to the same Marine,

"I would like to go in and meet with President Obama."

The Marine again tells the man,

"Sir, as I said yesterday, Mr. Obama is no longer president and no longer resides here."

The man thanks him and again walks away.

On the third day, the same man approaches the White House and speaks to the very same U.S. Marine, saying,

"I would like to go in and meet with President Obama."

The Marine, understandably agitated at this point, looks at the man and says,

"Sir, this is the third day in a row you have been here asking to speak to Mr. Obama. I've told you already that Mr. Obama is no longer the president and no longer resides here. Don't you understand?"

The old man looks at the Marine and says,

"Oh, I understand. I just love hearing it."

The Marine snaps to attention, salutes, and says,

"See you tomorrow, Sir!"

.,, and on the fifth day the old man approached the Marine and told him he was unwell and poor.  And the Marine replied: "Well, get used to that bench you were sitting on 'cos, if you were seeking healthcare, it'll be your home."

If he was old he'd have already been on Medicaid, and would have no need for Obamacare
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 22, 2017, 03:04:50 AM
Do you know anything... that would be Medicare you are referring to. Medicaid is for low income people.
Another reminder of your factless and inaccurate pronouncements.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 22, 2017, 03:16:11 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 22, 2017, 03:04:50 AM
Do you know anything... that would be Medicare you are referring to. Medicaid is for low income people.
Another reminder of your factless and inaccurate pronouncements.

Same difference...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 05:03:53 AM
Obama is for American wingnuts what Europe is for Tory lunatics. Something to blame.
And now they are both either gone or on the way out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuZA6qiJVfU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 22, 2017, 05:48:19 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 01:59:50 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2017, 10:22:42 PM
Thought it was a pretty straightforward question, thought you might have a straightforward answer.

As expected you don't have a clue. You would not have ask the question otherwise. Don't feel too bad as 95% of the people are in your boat, that is why the FRB are able to get away with what they are doing. By watching this short 30 minute video you will get help in (at least)  two ways. You will move into the 5% category and gain the knowledge to answer your own question. Sure I could answer your question straight away but you first need to know who The Federal Reserve are and how currency is created.  Otherwise you will not understand my answer and be as uninformed as you are now.

https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0 (https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0)

Seamus,
That video is an example of what happens when dumb people think they aren't 
That is so far away from fact as to be trumpski-ish.
It isn't really that difficult to find a lot of good information on monetary policy. It is however hard reading and quite complex. That videon is hard watching not complex and not in any way factually correct.
I think assinine covers it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 22, 2017, 10:07:14 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 22, 2017, 05:48:19 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 01:59:50 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2017, 10:22:42 PM
Thought it was a pretty straightforward question, thought you might have a straightforward answer.

As expected you don't have a clue. You would not have ask the question otherwise. Don't feel too bad as 95% of the people are in your boat, that is why the FRB are able to get away with what they are doing. By watching this short 30 minute video you will get help in (at least)  two ways. You will move into the 5% category and gain the knowledge to answer your own question. Sure I could answer your question straight away but you first need to know who The Federal Reserve are and how currency is created.  Otherwise you will not understand my answer and be as uninformed as you are now.

https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0 (https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0)

Seamus,
That video is an example of what happens when dumb people think they aren't 
That is so far away from fact as to be trumpski-ish.
It isn't really that difficult to find a lot of good information on monetary policy. It is however hard reading and quite complex. That videon is hard watching not complex and not in any way factually correct.
I think assinine covers it
I didnt watch it HB, Were the Jews behind it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 01:59:50 AM

As expected you don't have a clue. You would not have ask the question otherwise. Don't feel too bad as 95% of the people are in your boat, that is why the FRB are able to get away with what they are doing. By watching this short 30 minute video you will get help in (at least)  two ways. You will move into the 5% category and gain the knowledge to answer your own question. Sure I could answer your question straight away but you first need to know who The Federal Reserve are and how currency is created.  Otherwise you will not understand my answer and be as uninformed as you are now.

https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0 (https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0)

Is "Seamus" actually Jim Corr?  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on January 22, 2017, 10:47:34 AM
Obviously Trump should be held to account by the media, and he seems close to crazy, but would the media not be as well looking at the factors that led to Trump getting elected. Reasons, solutions etc ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 10:49:14 AM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/02/09/what-trump-is-throwing-out-the-window/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 11:12:54 AM
Quote from: Minder on January 22, 2017, 10:47:34 AM
Obviously Trump should be held to account by the media, and he seems close to crazy, but would the media not be as well looking at the factors that led to Trump getting elected. Reasons, solutions etc ?
He was elected because of stagnant wages and inequality and because people were ignored for so long. But he won't address the system either. Because he is full of shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp6DJAMlWgY
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: Minder on January 22, 2017, 10:47:34 AM
Obviously Trump should be held to account by the media, and he seems close to crazy, but would the media not be as well looking at the factors that led to Trump getting elected. Reasons, solutions etc ?
There's loads of analysis of "the factors that led to Trump getting "elected"".

It's probably the most written about and discussed topic in the media, be it broadcast media, traditional print media, new media or social media.

Ironically, the one person who is least addressing "the factors that led to Trump getting "elected"" is Trump himself.

But then again, his world is entirely a world of make believe, where the solution to the problems which led to him "getting elected", is more of the same, except far more of it, and far worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 12:07:04 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/02/09/what-trump-is-throwing-out-the-window/

"Make America Great Again" suggests a highly engaged superpower with the clout and the will to dictate events. We'll "take their oil," build a wall and force Mexico to pay for it, and "take out" terrorists' families regardless of international law. We'll force China to accept changed terms of trade, and if that causes a trade war, "who the hell cares." We should "greatly expand" our nuclear forces and welcome the resulting arms race because "we will outmatch them at every pass and outlast them all."
Some of this is surely posturing: shaking things up and trying to unsettle international opponents. Some is the result of ignorance that may be modified in office. Some is Trump's well-established practice of beginning negotiations by taking something that has already been agreed to off the table and demanding a concession to put it back. This may occasionally work, but by and large what works in real estate deals is not transferrable to international negotiations. The One China policy he has questioned, for example, as Trump will discover if he tries to challenge it once in office, is simply not a bargaining chip for China. As Ambassador Nicholas Platt, a prominent China expert, put it, "One China is not a bargaining chip, it's the table."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 22, 2017, 12:34:54 PM
The Trump don't seem to be enjoying power too much.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/21/media/sean-spicer-press-secretary-statement/dd

Bold media outlets were editing coverage of inauguration so that it seemed there wasn't as many people there as there was.  And they called the "Liberals" whiners.

Oh no. just saw that it was a CNN story.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 12:42:16 PM
Breaking news: 53,000 tickets have been sold for today's Derry v Monaghan McKenna Cup semi-final at the Athletic Grounds.

Here is an almost live picture of the Monaghan supporters making their way to the stadium.

(http://www.northernstandard.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/crowd.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 01:03:29 PM
Make Monaghan great again. Build a wall to keep out apple munchers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 02:12:17 PM
He is already at war with the media

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/22/trump-inauguration-crowd-sean-spicers-claims-versus-the-evidence

I wonder how long before it goes tits up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2017, 02:42:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 12:42:16 PM
Breaking news: 53,000 tickets have been sold for today's Derry v Monaghan McKenna Cup semi-final at the Athletic Grounds.

Here is an almost live picture of the Monaghan supporters making their way to the stadium.

Hardy folk in the Farney, not a coat among them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 03:12:30 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.
Jesus, what do they do with money collected then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 22, 2017, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.


(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/foilhat.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/foilhat.png.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2017, 03:28:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 03:12:30 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.
Jesus, what do they do with money collected then?

I predict you'll be referred to yet another video or obscure website rather than getting a straight answer to your question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2017, 03:40:00 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 22, 2017, 12:34:54 PM
The Trump don't seem to be enjoying power too much.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/21/media/sean-spicer-press-secretary-statement/dd

Bold media outlets were editing coverage of inauguration so that it seemed there wasn't as many people there as there was.  And they called the "Liberals" whiners.

Oh no. just saw that it was a CNN story.

Doubling down on conspiracy theorism from Day One.

If there's news out there they don't like, no matter how minor or petty or inconsequential, claim the media are falsifying it. Its been the modus operandi of the right when it comes to issues like science for years. Trump is just extending it across the board and counting on the carefully cultivated distrust of the "mainstream" media amongst their followers to support and validate it. Expect plenty more of this, especially when scandals and conflicts of interest are brought to light.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 22, 2017, 03:47:54 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.

Tell me about this education.
A bond is an IOU? Genius

A store is a way of exploiting farmers Taking their hard work and time and charging more for it to make themselves money. And as for hauliers. They aren't making anything or even selling anything, and making themselves rich!

Manufacturing plants. Disgraceful. Taking miners hard graft and all the hard working folk that produce raw materials and exploiting that producing goods that people can't usually make themselves. And charging money for it to make profit. Educate yourselves people. Take the first step.

Try idiot's guide to economics
Or economics for dummies.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2017, 03:40:00 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 22, 2017, 12:34:54 PM
The Trump don't seem to be enjoying power too much.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/21/media/sean-spicer-press-secretary-statement/dd

Bold media outlets were editing coverage of inauguration so that it seemed there wasn't as many people there as there was.  And they called the "Liberals" whiners.

Oh no. just saw that it was a CNN story.

Doubling down on conspiracy theorism from Day One.

If there's news out there they don't like, no matter how minor or petty or inconsequential, claim the media are falsifying it. Its been the modus operandi of the right when it comes to issues like science for years. Trump is just extending it across the board and counting on the carefully cultivated distrust of the "mainstream" media amongst their followers to support and validate it. Expect plenty more of this, especially when scandals and conflicts of interest are brought to light.
Trumpo is going to manipulate the news but he has generated huge expectations amongst working class people and will not change the system that is shafting them. So his honeymoon period will be quite short.

This is about the UK but it's also about Trump voters. Trump promised to address their anger and he won't. His cabinet is full of billionaires.


"The main problem of brexit is that it will fire the last remaining bullet, before the anger of the working class starts to turn inwards. Whatever happens after brexit, it will not solve most of the problems that convinced the white labour voters to support brexit (let's be honest - UKIP and Conservatives could not do it alone - it was the ex-labur working class voter class who pushed the brexit vote over the 50% margin).-The NHS will still be f'd up (and forget about those 350m GBP a week)-Zero-hour contracts are here to stay (they are exclusively UK's invention, nothing to do with EU) etc.However, the EU boogeyman will be gone. And all political excuses with it. So the next time the angry voters determine that they want changes, all their anger will be projected inwards. And God help UK politicians then."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2017, 04:43:03 PM
Conway this morning defended Spicer, saying he was presenting "alternative facts" and there is no way to really know how the crowds compared to Obama's!

Orwell comes to mind: "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on January 22, 2017, 05:00:32 PM
Watching Conway this morning and  she has to have aged by about 30 years in a year.She is very good at her job of defending and spinning blatant lies but I am not sure how long she can keep this up as her life has got to be so stressful defending this clown hour after hour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2017, 05:41:38 PM
Herd Priebus being interviewed by Chris Wallace, and it was much the same. With respect to Trump having a rant about the media while visiting the CIA, he refused to address the awkward fact that Trump had indeed very recently compared the leak of the story about the Russians having shit on him to something that would be done by the Nazis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 06:05:07 PM
Trump could finish the GOP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 07:00:45 PM
Quote from: maigheo on January 22, 2017, 05:00:32 PM
Watching Conway this morning and  she has to have aged by about 30 years in a year.She is very good at her job of defending and spinning blatant lies but I am not sure how long she can keep this up as her life has got to be so stressful defending this clown hour after hour.
She looked awful.
And she lies with a smile
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 08:07:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2017, 03:28:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 03:12:30 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.
Jesus, what do they do with money collected then?

I predict you'll be referred to yet another video or obscure website rather than getting a straight answer to your question.

Paying back the interest to The Federal Reserve for currency created from thin air.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 08:10:26 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 22, 2017, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.


(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/foilhat.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/foilhat.png.html)


Enter Inspector Clouseau

http://www.videodetective.com/movies/inspector-clouseau/224311 (http://www.videodetective.com/movies/inspector-clouseau/224311)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 08:12:03 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 22, 2017, 03:47:54 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.

Tell me about this education.
A bond is an IOU? Genius

A store is a way of exploiting farmers Taking their hard work and time and charging more for it to make themselves money. And as for hauliers. They aren't making anything or even selling anything, and making themselves rich!

Manufacturing plants. Disgraceful. Taking miners hard graft and all the hard working folk that produce raw materials and exploiting that producing goods that people can't usually make themselves. And charging money for it to make profit. Educate yourselves people. Take the first step.

Try idiot's guide to economics
Or economics for dummies.

So genius, tell me the role of The Federal Reserve.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 08:13:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2017, 04:43:03 PM
Conway this morning defended Spicer, saying he was presenting "alternative facts" and there is no way to really know how the crowds compared to Obama's!

Orwell comes to mind: "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
Or Groucho Marx. Who do you want to believe? Me or your own eyes?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 22, 2017, 09:09:39 PM
Can someone remind the democrats that they lost the election. From the bits I've seen of these protest marches they appear to be very confused or in some cases clueless about why they are actually there. It's truly embarrassing hearing them talk.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2017, 09:18:57 PM
This arguing over the crowd size, when people can see the photos, is ridiculous and reflects poorly on the regime already.

Quote from: foxcommander on January 22, 2017, 09:09:39 PM
Can someone remind the democrats that they lost the election. From the bits I've seen of these protest marches they appear to be very confused or in some cases clueless about why they are actually there. It's truly embarrassing hearing them talk.

Well they lost the Electoral College anyway. Presumably they are there to oppose a bollix.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 22, 2017, 09:23:29 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 08:12:03 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 22, 2017, 03:47:54 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.

Tell me about this education.
A bond is an IOU? Genius

A store is a way of exploiting farmers Taking their hard work and time and charging more for it to make themselves money. And as for hauliers. They aren't making anything or even selling anything, and making themselves rich!

Manufacturing plants. Disgraceful. Taking miners hard graft and all the hard working folk that produce raw materials and exploiting that producing goods that people can't usually make themselves. And charging money for it to make profit. Educate yourselves people. Take the first step.

Try idiot's guide to economics
Or economics for dummies.

So genius, tell me the role of The Federal Reserve.
Sé as far as I'm aware Heganboy works in the financial services industry in the US so forgive us if we pay attention to what he has to say on the matter over someone like yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 10:35:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2017, 09:18:57 PM
This arguing over the crowd size, when people can see the photos, is ridiculous and reflects poorly on the regime already.

Quote from: foxcommander on January 22, 2017, 09:09:39 PM
Can someone remind the democrats that they lost the election. From the bits I've seen of these protest marches they appear to be very confused or in some cases clueless about why they are actually there. It's truly embarrassing hearing them talk.

Well they lost the Electoral College anyway. Presumably they are there to oppose a bollix.
Spicer was pathetic
http://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/watch-this-was-the-largest-audience-to-ever-witness-an-inauguration-period-white-house-press-secretary-35387946.html#play
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 10:49:15 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2zYqdiUkAARQi-.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 10:54:57 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/22/sean-spicer-inauguration-groucho-marxist-asking-us-not-believe-our-own-eyes

As Evan McMullin, the conservative who ran against Trump as an independent, put it, these repeated attacks on the press are "intended to destroy the media's ability to hold him accountable".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 11:05:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2017, 04:43:03 PM
Conway this morning defended Spicer, saying he was presenting "alternative facts" and there is no way to really know how the crowds compared to Obama's!

Orwell comes to mind: "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2017/jan/22/kellyanne-conway-trump-press-secretary-alternative-facts-video
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 11:10:44 PM
Much as US foreign policy since World War II has always relied on an imagined "other" bogey man to drum up support behind it, Trump requires an "evil" bogey figure to drum up support for him, because his popularity is mobilised in the main by hatred.

Before he entered politics, it was the blacks.
When he first ran for president, it was the Mexicans.
Then it was the Muslims.
Then it was the entirely straw man concept of "political correctness".
Then it was "Wall Street" (even though he's now boasting of his ties to them and how he's great for them).
Then it was the Jews.
Then it was the "Republican establishment".
Then it was the media.
Then it was "the hoax of global warming".
Then it was the Chinese.
Then it was Gonzalo Curiel.
Then it was the Khans.
Then it was Alicia Machado.
Then it was the electoral system.
Then it was Hillary Clinton.
Then it was Bill Clinton.
Then it was Saturday Night Live.
Then it was Obama.
Then it was his own intelligence services.
Now, running out of bogey figures to vilify, it's the media again.

Invoking hatred against an "other" has been the one common theme of not just his political career, but of his life.

The classic fascist tactic, above all.

It's pretty much the only thing he has.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2017, 11:32:07 PM
He is a clown. It is going to be a car crash . I wonder how long the GOP will.play along for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 23, 2017, 12:41:48 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 08:12:03 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 22, 2017, 03:47:54 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.

Tell me about this education.
A bond is an IOU? Genius

A store is a way of exploiting farmers Taking their hard work and time and charging more for it to make themselves money. And as for hauliers. They aren't making anything or even selling anything, and making themselves rich!

Manufacturing plants. Disgraceful. Taking miners hard graft and all the hard working folk that produce raw materials and exploiting that producing goods that people can't usually make themselves. And charging money for it to make profit. Educate yourselves people. Take the first step.

Try idiot's guide to economics
Or economics for dummies.

So genius, tell me the role of The Federal Reserve.

I see you love your wee videos.
This one was really hard to find.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12594.htm

Couple of things that you may need to get your head around here. Clearing, depository trusts, LIBOR, yield curves, volatility surfaces, value at risk. Basel III or Mifid 2,
If those seem painful, might I suggest you watch it's a wonderful life. The idea of a run in a bank could help you.

Just because you can take a band-aid off doesn't mean you are qualified for brain surgery.
The global financial system is becoming more, not less complex. The Fed sets the monetary policy in the United States, still the worlds biggest economy. It directly sets the tone for Fixed Income Currency and Commodity (FICC) trading in the lit economy. And mostly the grey and black markets too.
Price stability and interest rates, borrowing costs for the non rich.

Everything you know about the value of anything in the future and the concept of the net present value of any future income you might have.
Say youre a farmer and your harvest comes in Late summer and you need to borrow for the fertilizer now or the tractor needs repaired. Then you borrow money. Rates set are dependent on the Fed.

Does this help you any, or do you really know why there's a fed, but just not get it, and want to abolish it?

Tell me about your plan.
You'll forgive me for not calling you genius
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on January 23, 2017, 03:58:59 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 11:10:44 PM
Much as US foreign policy since World War II has always relied on an imagined "other" bogey man to drum up support behind it, Trump requires an "evil" bogey figure to drum up support for him, because his popularity is mobilised in the main by hatred.

Before he entered politics, it was the blacks.
When he first ran for president, it was the Mexicans.
Then it was the Muslims.
Then it was the entirely straw man concept of "political correctness".
Then it was "Wall Street" (even though he's now boasting of his ties to them and how he's great for them).
Then it was the Jews.
Then it was the "Republican establishment".
Then it was the media.
Then it was "the hoax of global warming".
Then it was the Chinese.
Then it was Gonzalo Curiel.
Then it was the Khans.
Then it was Alicia Machado.
Then it was the electoral system.
Then it was Hillary Clinton.
Then it was Bill Clinton.
Then it was Saturday Night Live.
Then it was Obama.
Then it was his own intelligence services.
Now, running out of bogey figures to vilify, it's the media again.

Invoking hatred against an "other" has been the one common theme of not just his political career, but of his life.

The classic fascist tactic, above all.

It's pretty much the only thing he has.

but Hilary...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2017, 07:48:10 AM
Spicer and Conway are taking orders from Bannon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 23, 2017, 11:15:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 23, 2017, 07:48:10 AM
Spicer and Conway are taking orders from Bannon.
What are Bannons / Breitbarts position on Israel?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 23, 2017, 02:41:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2017, 09:18:57 PM
This arguing over the crowd size, when people can see the photos, is ridiculous and reflects poorly on the regime already.

Quote from: foxcommander on January 22, 2017, 09:09:39 PM
Can someone remind the democrats that they lost the election. From the bits I've seen of these protest marches they appear to be very confused or in some cases clueless about why they are actually there. It's truly embarrassing hearing them talk.

Well they lost the Electoral College anyway. Presumably they are there to oppose a bollix.

Or prove the place has gone totally bananas. This is a top notch insane rant at the rally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXSN-HHowhc

Calling michelle Obama and Hillary nasty.....lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2017, 02:59:33 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2017, 11:15:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 23, 2017, 07:48:10 AM
Spicer and Conway are taking orders from Bannon.
What are Bannons / Breitbarts position on Israel?
Pro settler , anti liberal Jews
I.think Bannon would like them all to.go to Israel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 23, 2017, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Some of them refusing to support a democratically elected president but will sing for any dictator if the money is correct.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2017, 03:59:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 11:10:44 PM
Much as US foreign policy since World War II has always relied on an imagined "other" bogey man to drum up support behind it, Trump requires an "evil" bogey figure to drum up support for him, because his popularity is mobilised in the main by hatred.

Before he entered politics, it was the blacks.
When he first ran for president, it was the Mexicans.
Then it was the Muslims.
Then it was the entirely straw man concept of "political correctness".
Then it was "Wall Street" (even though he's now boasting of his ties to them and how he's great for them).
Then it was the Jews.
Then it was the "Republican establishment".
Then it was the media.
Then it was "the hoax of global warming".
Then it was the Chinese.
Then it was Gonzalo Curiel.
Then it was the Khans.
Then it was Alicia Machado.
Then it was the electoral system.
Then it was Hillary Clinton.
Then it was Bill Clinton.
Then it was Saturday Night Live.
Then it was Obama.
Then it was his own intelligence services.
Now, running out of bogey figures to vilify, it's the media again.

Invoking hatred against an "other" has been the one common theme of not just his political career, but of his life.

The classic fascist tactic, above all.

It's pretty much the only thing he has.

What a pile of rubbish.....the Democratic agenda has been firmly rejected by the voters Evernote since Obama took office.  In spite of what the liberal media will tell you, this is still a center right country.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/eight-years-barack-obama-obliterated-democrat-party-record-numbers/

"Under President Obama, Democrats have lost over 900 state legislature seats, 12 governors, 69 House seats, 13 Senate seats."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert)

Catch a grip - hypocritical whinge!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2017, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert)

Catch a grip - hypocritical whinge!

And that contradicts my point how?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2017, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 03:59:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 22, 2017, 11:10:44 PM
Much as US foreign policy since World War II has always relied on an imagined "other" bogey man to drum up support behind it, Trump requires an "evil" bogey figure to drum up support for him, because his popularity is mobilised in the main by hatred.

Before he entered politics, it was the blacks.
When he first ran for president, it was the Mexicans.
Then it was the Muslims.
Then it was the entirely straw man concept of "political correctness".
Then it was "Wall Street" (even though he's now boasting of his ties to them and how he's great for them).
Then it was the Jews.
Then it was the "Republican establishment".
Then it was the media.
Then it was "the hoax of global warming".
Then it was the Chinese.
Then it was Gonzalo Curiel.
Then it was the Khans.
Then it was Alicia Machado.
Then it was the electoral system.
Then it was Hillary Clinton.
Then it was Bill Clinton.
Then it was Saturday Night Live.
Then it was Obama.
Then it was his own intelligence services.
Now, running out of bogey figures to vilify, it's the media again.

Invoking hatred against an "other" has been the one common theme of not just his political career, but of his life.

The classic fascist tactic, above all.

It's pretty much the only thing he has.

What a pile of rubbish.....the Democratic agenda has been firmly rejected by the voters Evernote since Obama took office.  In spite of what the liberal media will tell you, this is still a center right country.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/eight-years-barack-obama-obliterated-democrat-party-record-numbers/

"Under President Obama, Democrats have lost over 900 state legislature seats, 12 governors, 69 House seats, 13 Senate seats."

What has Obama got to do with Trump using various, supposedly evil and biased foils to fuel his campaign and, it would seem now, his presidency?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Trump won because people firmly rejected the direction and policies of the Democratic Party. Hillary offered 4 more years of Obama and that's not what people wanted. You of course are free to believe whatever you want....and if you continue to believe that, rather than admit and address the failings of the progressive agenda, expect another hammering in 2018
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert)

Catch a grip - hypocritical whinge!

And that contradicts my point how?

She has no interest in democracy just the dollar and her own self importance. Bit like you in many ways but with nicer tits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.

They are indeed, but they are not entitled to think their voice carries any more intellect or weight than those on the street looking up at them. They are not experts in politics, they are famous because they can act or sing.

The problem is in this 'celebrity' age, people ascribe far too much weight to what George fecking Clooney thinks about politics or world events. As far as I'm concerned he's a doctor in ER or Greys Anatomy or something.  Media organs like the Independent over here lap it up, and it sickens my shite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:08:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Trump won because people firmly rejected the direction and policies of the Democratic Party. Hillary offered 4 more years of Obama and that's not what people wanted. You of course are free to believe whatever you want....and if you continue to believe that, rather than admit and address the failings of the progressive agenda, expect another hammering in 2018
But what is "people"?

But 2.86 million more people voted for Hillary Clinton. The difference between Obama's 2012 vote and Hillary Clinton's 2016 vote was 71,000.

11 million more people voted for Democratic candidates in the 2016 elections than for Republicans.

So your claim is demonstrably and obviously false, and the raw numbers say so.

Trump won because he got just enough votes in key states to swing the electoral college his way.

That's a totally different scenario to the falsehood that "the people voted to reject the Democrats", and it's one that people who live in the Republican echo chamber like yourself so far show absolutely no sign of coming to terms with.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2017, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:08:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Trump won because people firmly rejected the direction and policies of the Democratic Party. Hillary offered 4 more years of Obama and that's not what people wanted. You of course are free to believe whatever you want....and if you continue to believe that, rather than admit and address the failings of the progressive agenda, expect another hammering in 2018
But what is "people"?

But 2.86 million more people voted for Hillary Clinton. The difference between Obama's 2012 vote and Hillary Clinton's 2016 vote was 71,000.

11 million more people voted for Democratic candidates in the 2016 elections than for Republicans.

So your claim is demonstrably and obviously false, and the raw numbers say so.

Trump won because he got just enough votes in key states to swing the electoral college his way.

That's a totally different scenario to the falsehood that "the people voted to reject the Democrats", and it's one that people who live in the Republican echo chamber like yourself so far show absolutely no sign of coming to terms with.

Believe whatever you want to believe.  It won't work out too well for you in 2018 either
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:08:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Trump won because people firmly rejected the direction and policies of the Democratic Party. Hillary offered 4 more years of Obama and that's not what people wanted. You of course are free to believe whatever you want....and if you continue to believe that, rather than admit and address the failings of the progressive agenda, expect another hammering in 2018
But what is "people"?

But 2.86 million more people voted for Hillary Clinton. The difference between Obama's 2012 vote and Hillary Clinton's 2016 vote was 71,000.

11 million more people voted for Democratic candidates in the 2016 elections than for Republicans.

So your claim is demonstrably and obviously false, and the raw numbers say so.

Trump won because he got just enough votes in key states to swing the electoral college his way.

That's a totally different scenario to the falsehood that "the people voted to reject the Democrats", and it's one that people who live in the Republican echo chamber like yourself so far show absolutely no sign of coming to terms with.

Believe whatever you want to believe.  It won't work out too well for you in 2018 either
You haven't argued with the accuracy of my points, I note.

"The people" did not reject the Democrats, or even Clinton. They may not have been enthusiastic about voting for her or the party, but that's a different argument entirely.

Trump won only via the vagaries of the electoral system, not via the vote of the people.

It's a fact you would do well to take note of.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2017, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert)

Catch a grip - hypocritical whinge!

And that contradicts my point how?

She has no interest in democracy just the dollar and her own self importance. Bit like you in many ways but with nicer tits.

So because she purportedly values money and narcissm over all else (who else does that remind us of?), she is not entitled to free speech?

Your logic and clear thinking is as foolproof as ever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2017, 05:27:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:08:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Trump won because people firmly rejected the direction and policies of the Democratic Party. Hillary offered 4 more years of Obama and that's not what people wanted. You of course are free to believe whatever you want....and if you continue to believe that, rather than admit and address the failings of the progressive agenda, expect another hammering in 2018
But what is "people"?

But 2.86 million more people voted for Hillary Clinton. The difference between Obama's 2012 vote and Hillary Clinton's 2016 vote was 71,000.

11 million more people voted for Democratic candidates in the 2016 elections than for Republicans.

So your claim is demonstrably and obviously false, and the raw numbers say so.

Trump won because he got just enough votes in key states to swing the electoral college his way.

That's a totally different scenario to the falsehood that "the people voted to reject the Democrats", and it's one that people who live in the Republican echo chamber like yourself so far show absolutely no sign of coming to terms with.

Believe whatever you want to believe.  It won't work out too well for you in 2018 either
You haven't argued with the accuracy of my points, I note.

"The people" did not reject the Democrats, or even Clinton. They may not have been enthusiastic about voting for her or the party, but that's a different argument entirely.

Trump won only via the vagaries of the electoral system, not via the vote of the people.

It's a fact you would do well to take note of.

Don't stop believin.....

(Was listening to MSNBC last week.....you have to go back to the 1920s to find a period when the Democratic Party were in as much of a shambles as they are today. The leaders of the party are all in their 70s or even close to 80.....hahaha)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2017, 05:29:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.

They are indeed, but they are not entitled to think their voice carries any more intellect or weight than those on the street looking up at them. They are not experts in politics, they are famous because they can act or sing.

The problem is in this 'celebrity' age, people ascribe far too much weight to what George fecking Clooney thinks about politics or world events. As far as I'm concerned he's a doctor in ER or Greys Anatomy or something.  Media organs like the Independent over here lap it up, and it sickens my shite.

Unlike the rest of us, they have a platform from which to raise issues and public awareness. Very or not one agrees with what they say, they're entitled to say it. Sometimes its for the better, sometimes its ignorant, bigotted or naïve in the extreme.

Its up to the rest of us to point out the error of their ways where and when necessary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 23, 2017, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert)

Catch a grip - hypocritical whinge!

And that contradicts my point how?

She has no interest in democracy just the dollar and her own self importance. Bit like you in many ways but with nicer tits.

So because she purportedly values money and narcissm over all else (who else does that remind us of?), she is not entitled to free speech?

Your logic and clear thinking is as foolproof as ever.

Why does she reject a democratically elected president but happy to accept military dictators as long as she gets the dollar.  Unfortunately in this social media era knobs hang on celebs every words because she has nice tits and can sing a bit. Catch a grip kid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 23, 2017, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 05:29:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.

They are indeed, but they are not entitled to think their voice carries any more intellect or weight than those on the street looking up at them. They are not experts in politics, they are famous because they can act or sing.

The problem is in this 'celebrity' age, people ascribe far too much weight to what George fecking Clooney thinks about politics or world events. As far as I'm concerned he's a doctor in ER or Greys Anatomy or something.  Media organs like the Independent over here lap it up, and it sickens my shite.

Unlike the rest of us, they have a platform from which to raise issues and public awareness. Very or not one agrees with what they say, they're entitled to say it. Sometimes its for the better, sometimes its ignorant, bigotted or naïve in the extreme.

Its up to the rest of us to point out the error of their ways where and when necessary.

Sweet Jesus the world would be lost without you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2017, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 05:27:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:08:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Trump won because people firmly rejected the direction and policies of the Democratic Party. Hillary offered 4 more years of Obama and that's not what people wanted. You of course are free to believe whatever you want....and if you continue to believe that, rather than admit and address the failings of the progressive agenda, expect another hammering in 2018
But what is "people"?

But 2.86 million more people voted for Hillary Clinton. The difference between Obama's 2012 vote and Hillary Clinton's 2016 vote was 71,000.

11 million more people voted for Democratic candidates in the 2016 elections than for Republicans.

So your claim is demonstrably and obviously false, and the raw numbers say so.

Trump won because he got just enough votes in key states to swing the electoral college his way.

That's a totally different scenario to the falsehood that "the people voted to reject the Democrats", and it's one that people who live in the Republican echo chamber like yourself so far show absolutely no sign of coming to terms with.

Believe whatever you want to believe.  It won't work out too well for you in 2018 either
You haven't argued with the accuracy of my points, I note.

"The people" did not reject the Democrats, or even Clinton. They may not have been enthusiastic about voting for her or the party, but that's a different argument entirely.

Trump won only via the vagaries of the electoral system, not via the vote of the people.

It's a fact you would do well to take note of.

Don't stop believin.....

(Was listening to MSNBC last week.....you have to go back to the 1920s to find a period when the Democratic Party were in as much of a shambles as they are today. The leaders of the party are all in their 70s or even close to 80.....hahaha)

Yet the GOP was in a complete shambles in '08 after Rove telling us he was building a permanent GOP majority after '04. Events/policies can change things very quickly and sharply.

Now of course that doesn't mean that the Dems will follow suit and find a united, focused message/cause on which to build a rebounding movement like they did (it was a tumultuous period with the economic collapse), but it does show how things can swing, especially if Trump ends up being completely undisciplined or the GOP completely overreaches in their actions. Both sides have a solid base of 45-47%. Doesn't take a giant swing to change it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2017, 05:38:50 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 23, 2017, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 23, 2017, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.

Why?

Ashley Judd, Ted Nugent, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, Charlie Daniels and Beyoncé as as entitled as anyone to march and protest and advocate for their valued causes.


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/06/beyonce-new-years-eve-concert)

Catch a grip - hypocritical whinge!

And that contradicts my point how?

She has no interest in democracy just the dollar and her own self importance. Bit like you in many ways but with nicer tits.

So because she purportedly values money and narcissm over all else (who else does that remind us of?), she is not entitled to free speech?

Your logic and clear thinking is as foolproof as ever.

Why does she reject a democratically elected president but happy to accept military dictators as long as she gets the dollar.  Unfortunately in this social media era knobs hang on celebs every words because she has nice tits and can sing a bit. Catch a grip kid.

Where have I mentioned ANYTHING about the correctness or otherwise of Beyoncé's positions? Or Ted Nugent's? Or any of the other people I listed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2017, 06:12:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2017, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 05:27:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 05:08:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Trump won because people firmly rejected the direction and policies of the Democratic Party. Hillary offered 4 more years of Obama and that's not what people wanted. You of course are free to believe whatever you want....and if you continue to believe that, rather than admit and address the failings of the progressive agenda, expect another hammering in 2018
But what is "people"?

But 2.86 million more people voted for Hillary Clinton. The difference between Obama's 2012 vote and Hillary Clinton's 2016 vote was 71,000.

11 million more people voted for Democratic candidates in the 2016 elections than for Republicans.

So your claim is demonstrably and obviously false, and the raw numbers say so.

Trump won because he got just enough votes in key states to swing the electoral college his way.

That's a totally different scenario to the falsehood that "the people voted to reject the Democrats", and it's one that people who live in the Republican echo chamber like yourself so far show absolutely no sign of coming to terms with.

Believe whatever you want to believe.  It won't work out too well for you in 2018 either
You haven't argued with the accuracy of my points, I note.

"The people" did not reject the Democrats, or even Clinton. They may not have been enthusiastic about voting for her or the party, but that's a different argument entirely.

Trump won only via the vagaries of the electoral system, not via the vote of the people.

It's a fact you would do well to take note of.

Don't stop believin.....

(Was listening to MSNBC last week.....you have to go back to the 1920s to find a period when the Democratic Party were in as much of a shambles as they are today. The leaders of the party are all in their 70s or even close to 80.....hahaha)

Yet the GOP was in a complete shambles in '08 after Rove telling us he was building a permanent GOP majority after '04. Events/policies can change things very quickly and sharply.

Now of course that doesn't mean that the Dems will follow suit and find a united, focused message/cause on which to build a rebounding movement like they did (it was a tumultuous period with the economic collapse), but it does show how things can swing, especially if Trump ends up being completely undisciplined or the GOP completely overreaches in their actions. Both sides have a solid base of 45-47%. Doesn't take a giant swing to change it.


At the end of the day it's about jobs and the economy and healthcare .  If Trump can deliver he and the Republicans will do just fine.  If they don't deliver they'll get turfed out and rightly so.

Senior Democrats made complete fools of themselves at the weekend. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 23, 2017, 06:42:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 23, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
Celebrities need to concentrate on acting and singing.
I give you madonna

a little jail time for these comments to reflect perhaps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdjebS2toK0

mental bint.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2017, 08:17:28 PM
Idiotic thing to say on Madonna's part.

Just like Trump and other right wing pols who have suggested "second amendment solutions" to Democratic politicians and policies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 23, 2017, 08:26:26 PM
At this stage the protests smack of spoiled children not getting their way

Can the democrats just accept the result and let the country move on. Russians didn't vote so to keep complaining of interference in the result is false.
Frances Fitzgerald and co attended the democrat conference thus throwing the official backing of the irish nation behind Hilary. Isn't it the same thing? (well done FG on backing the right horse!)

time to work with the president and by all means make him accountable for the mistakes he makes from this day forward, not on past words or actions. That's if they really want to improve the country.
I just see them as trying to piss trump off at every turn. It will show them up to be petty, just what they cried about during the Obama years


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2017, 08:50:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Trump won because people firmly rejected the direction and policies of the Democratic Party. Hillary offered 4 more years of Obama and that's not what people wanted. You of course are free to believe whatever you want....and if you continue to believe that, rather than admit and address the failings of the progressive agenda, expect another hammering in 2018

Trump won because the electoral college (AKA affirmative action for rednecks) gives a veto to a small number of states. Clinton got over two million more votes than Trump did. Fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2017, 09:57:54 PM
Electoral College is the system we operate under..... and Democrats start off with a HUGE advantage under that system.  It only became a vestige of rascism when she had her arse handed to her on election night


www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/in-2016-race-an-electoral-college-edge-for-democrats/2015/03/15/855f2792-cb3c-11e4-a2a7-9517a3a70506_story.html

" if you add up all of the states that are either "safe" for the eventual Democratic nominee or "favor" that nominee, you get 217 electoral votes. (A candidate needs to win 270 to be elected president.) Do the same for states safe or favoring the Republican standard-bearer, per Gonzales's rankings, and you get just 191 electoral votes."


Not to mention she outspent him 2:1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2017, 10:13:00 PM
Compare her to a few months ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maL6-l3DdHk

Conway looks really unwell.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/23/kellyanne-conway-alternative-facts-lies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 23, 2017, 10:19:39 PM
Tearing up the TPTP and rewriting the NAFTA doesn't bode well for whomever the Brits sed to negotiate their post Brexit trade deals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 23, 2017, 10:21:17 PM
Yes, Eamonn, the antiquated anti-democratic Electoral College, designed to prevent rather than install tyranny, did the Democrats in.  Add to that a deliberate and systematic strategy to suppress the minority vote as well as Russian interference (and likely collusion) contributed too.  Shovel a widespread gerrymandering to render the House out of reach, and there you have it.  The so-called "progressive agenda" was scuttled from the get-go by the GOP's pledge to obstruct each and every Obama initiative.  On top of that, throw in a resistance among some to vote for a woman under any circumstance as well as a gullible electorate educated by Fox and Breitbart.

And, Foxcommander, the marches are not temper tantrums by the petulant.  Rather, they are a reaction to what a Trump presidency actually means, and now I'm sick of hearing the mantra "give him a chance"; his appointees and nominees were his chance, and look who he picked.  Sessions as Attorney-General--racist! Perry in Energy--imbecile who thought the job entailed being an embassy door for the fossil fuel industry. Climate change denier in charge of EPA.  Exxon oil billionaire in charge of State.  Goldman Sach out the wazoo.  King of foreclosures in charge of Treasury.  Ben Carson over HUD.  DeVos in charge of Education, she who has carried on a crusade against public schools.  Bannon and Kellyanne Conway, and Spicer, the Goebbels of "alternative facts" and leading an all-out assault on freedom of speech and a free press.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2017, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 09:57:54 PM
Electoral College is the system we operate under..... and Democrats start off with a HUGE advantage under that system. 

I believe this is known as an "alternative fact."

The electoral college means that the value of a vote in a solid blue state like California is worth a fraction of a vote in Wyoming. In fact California has the least powerful voters in the country, the most powerful are in Arizona. https://wallethub.com/edu/how-much-is-your-vote-worth/7932/ (https://wallethub.com/edu/how-much-is-your-vote-worth/7932/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 23, 2017, 10:33:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 23, 2017, 10:13:00 PM
Compare her to a few months ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maL6-l3DdHk

Conway looks really unwell.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/23/kellyanne-conway-alternative-facts-lies
Perhaps the Russians have poisoned her like they did with yer man Yuschenko in the Ukraine that time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2017, 11:08:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2017, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 09:57:54 PM
Electoral College is the system we operate under..... and Democrats start off with a HUGE advantage under that system. 

I believe this is known as an "alternative fact."

The electoral college means that the value of a vote in a solid blue state like California is worth a fraction of a vote in Wyoming. In fact California has the least powerful voters in the country, the most powerful are in Arizona. https://wallethub.com/edu/how-much-is-your-vote-worth/7932/ (https://wallethub.com/edu/how-much-is-your-vote-worth/7932/)

Yes....it was definitely one of the "alternative facts" brandished by the main stream liberal media as evidence Tump couldn't win

https://youtu.be/9xAUiaMpJvc

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 24, 2017, 05:01:32 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 23, 2017, 12:41:48 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 08:12:03 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 22, 2017, 03:47:54 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.

Tell me about this education.
A bond is an IOU? Genius

A store is a way of exploiting farmers Taking their hard work and time and charging more for it to make themselves money. And as for hauliers. They aren't making anything or even selling anything, and making themselves rich!

Manufacturing plants. Disgraceful. Taking miners hard graft and all the hard working folk that produce raw materials and exploiting that producing goods that people can't usually make themselves. And charging money for it to make profit. Educate yourselves people. Take the first step.

Try idiot's guide to economics
Or economics for dummies.

So genius, tell me the role of The Federal Reserve.

I see you love your wee videos.
This one was really hard to find.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12594.htm

Couple of things that you may need to get your head around here. Clearing, depository trusts, LIBOR, yield curves, volatility surfaces, value at risk. Basel III or Mifid 2,
If those seem painful, might I suggest you watch it's a wonderful life. The idea of a run in a bank could help you.

Just because you can take a band-aid off doesn't mean you are qualified for brain surgery.
The global financial system is becoming more, not less complex. The Fed sets the monetary policy in the United States, still the worlds biggest economy. It directly sets the tone for Fixed Income Currency and Commodity (FICC) trading in the lit economy. And mostly the grey and black markets too.
Price stability and interest rates, borrowing costs for the non rich.

Everything you know about the value of anything in the future and the concept of the net present value of any future income you might have.
Say youre a farmer and your harvest comes in Late summer and you need to borrow for the fertilizer now or the tractor needs repaired. Then you borrow money. Rates set are dependent on the Fed.

Does this help you any, or do you really know why there's a fed, but just not get it, and want to abolish it?

Tell me about your plan.
You'll forgive me for not calling you genius

As expected you had to go to Google. So you had difficulty in finding something to fit your agenda.... a propaganda site making The Federal Reserve look good. You state that they have made the monetary system seem complicated, this is done on purpose just as the IRS does with its 70K plus pages of codes. 70K plus pages and less than 200 written words gets rid of them. And by the way very few banks are Basel 111 compliant as much as you would like to tell us otherwise. There will be no bail outs the next time, too big to fail my hole. Derivatives are still a major problem.


The Federal Reserve is not a government agency, it is a corporation owned by Private Bankers (not stated on your propaganda site).


A quote in 1790 from Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the House of Rothschild...


"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws."


A year later he founded The First Bank of the United States with a group of other private bankers and introduced a debt based currency in order to enrich the banksters and enslave the people.


By the time its 20 year charter was up the American economy was in ruins. Congress did not want to renew the charter and wished to return to an interest free, state issued, value based currency. Rothschild threatened war which came about in 1812 through the funding of the Rothschild controlled Bank of England. After the war The Second Bank of the United States was formed which returned the people to the same debt based currency as before.


When the charter was up in 1832 President Andrew Jackson fulfilled his promise to the people and did not renew the charter. A failed assassination attempt followed.


Fast forward to 1913, the bankers met in Jekyll Island with the sole purpose of forming the Third Bank of the United States. This time they changed the name to The Federal Reserve Bank in order to give it a quasi governmental image. They had their man in place (Woodrow Wilson) in order to pass it through congress which happened on Dec 23nd, 1913 (The Federal Reserve Act) when all opposition were on Christmas vacation. That charter ended in 2013  but unfortunately continues today.. In 1913 The IRS was also formed to become the collection agency of the Federal Reserve. The IRS is also a private corporation.


In 1919 Woodrow Wilson regretted what he had done. Quote "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."


After the Great Depression FDR took the dollar off the Gold Standard at the request of The Federal Reserve so they could print currency at will, this time from fresh air.


To this day they are still printing there way out of trouble mainly digitally, numbers on a screen and the national debt is nearing 20T but the total debt is far far greater. It is only a matter of when the inevitable happens, a total economic collapse and the destruction of the dollar.


The solution... A honest debt free (interest free) valued currency with weights and measures printed by The US Treasury. An alternative to the SWIFT banking system along with other security measures to prevent private bankers from stealing the money. Phase out The Federal Reserve banking system over time.

An old buddy chiming in I see. I don't give one damn weather you work in the financial system or not, ye lot seem to be the most brainwashed when it comes to the Fed anyway. You can't be informed that you work for a corrupt system. I also have not met a good financial adviser yet.

This is my last response to you, you are a total waste of my time and energy.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2017, 05:01:34 AM
Whatever about the discussions here, Trump is fixated on the popular vote, telling congressional leaders tonight that 3-5 million illegals voted, costing him the popular vote. He allegedly also was boasting about the size of his inauguration crowd, saying it was the biggest he'd ever seen.

How is he going to handle it when shit really does hit the fan about stuff that actually matters? If his ego can't take a popular vote loss and a relatively small inaugural crowd, what happens when he suffers some legislative setback or international incident where he miscalculates or a scandal hits him or his administration or his policies don't deliver?

For someone who is obsessed with looking strong and a winner, he really does appear to be an insecure, petty little bluffer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2017, 05:41:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2017, 05:01:34 AM
Whatever about the discussions here, Trump is fixated on the popular vote, telling congressional leaders tonight that 3-5 million illegals voted, costing him the popular vote. He allegedly also was boasting about the size of his inauguration crowd, saying it was the biggest he'd ever seen.

How is he going to handle it when shit really does hit the fan about stuff that actually matters? If his ego can't take a popular vote loss and a relatively small inaugural crowd, what happens when he suffers some legislative setback or international incident where he miscalculates or a scandal hits him or his administration or his policies don't deliver?

For someone who is obsessed with looking strong and a winner, he really does appear to be an insecure, petty little bluffer.
Trump gets the media interested in trivia such as the inauguration crowd so they don't focus on other stuff he is doing like gutting Obamacare. They will figure him.out after a while.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 24, 2017, 07:00:07 AM
Trump has gone full Kim Jong Un!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/24/trump-national-day-of-patriotic-devotion-echoes-north-korea
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 24, 2017, 08:21:25 AM
Grab a coffee and read this preferably while sitting down ;) ;)

https://patribotics.wordpress.com/ (https://patribotics.wordpress.com/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 24, 2017, 09:31:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2017, 08:50:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Trump won because people firmly rejected the direction and policies of the Democratic Party. Hillary offered 4 more years of Obama and that's not what people wanted. You of course are free to believe whatever you want....and if you continue to believe that, rather than admit and address the failings of the progressive agenda, expect another hammering in 2018

Trump won because the electoral college (AKA affirmative action for rednecks) gives a veto to a small number of states. Clinton got over two million more votes than Trump did. Fact.


A tad hypocritical there Eamonnca.

The dems have won elections using the electoral college system, were the voters rednecks then?

The system is what it is Trump won, your turd lost, move on already, it's done, we all lost.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 24, 2017, 09:49:46 AM
The Dems really need to let the popular vote go. It would have been a completely differently run election if it was based on popular vote. Maybe Hillary would have won, but you can't assume so just because she gathered more votes in a system that actively discourages campaigning in a state you know you have no chance in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 24, 2017, 10:14:29 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 24, 2017, 09:49:46 AM
The Dems really need to let the popular vote go. It would have been a completely differently run election if it was based on popular vote. Maybe Hillary would have won, but you can't assume so just because she gathered more votes in a system that actively discourages campaigning in a state you know you have no chance in.

They need to grow up and accept they were beaten, they need to stop protesting and wrecking property on and not burning their flag might be a good idea.

These bastards need to accept the election results and oh I don't know, maybe be part of a grass roots campaign across the country to ensure this man they do revile is a one term President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 24, 2017, 10:51:02 AM
You gotta love the head in the sand thinking of May, going over to Washington to meet Trump to discuss a trade deal a few days after watching him effectively rip up two other trade deals..

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 24, 2017, 11:19:40 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 24, 2017, 05:01:32 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 23, 2017, 12:41:48 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 08:12:03 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 22, 2017, 03:47:54 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 22, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2017, 07:49:17 AM
Seamus,  I really wanna hear your answer. How you're planning to fund public services etc..

Obviously you did not watch the video, you would not have asked that stupid question if you did. The IRS does NOT fund public services etc.

What country do you live in? If in the US, do you own a home, drive a car, pay sales tax, maybe own a business with all it's regulations and red tape etc, etc etc.?

That video is only the first step in your education. There are plenty of other sources. You took heganboy's nonsense as fact and didn't bother watching. You should learn to think for yourself.

Tell me about this education.
A bond is an IOU? Genius

A store is a way of exploiting farmers Taking their hard work and time and charging more for it to make themselves money. And as for hauliers. They aren't making anything or even selling anything, and making themselves rich!

Manufacturing plants. Disgraceful. Taking miners hard graft and all the hard working folk that produce raw materials and exploiting that producing goods that people can't usually make themselves. And charging money for it to make profit. Educate yourselves people. Take the first step.

Try idiot's guide to economics
Or economics for dummies.

So genius, tell me the role of The Federal Reserve.

I see you love your wee videos.
This one was really hard to find.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12594.htm

Couple of things that you may need to get your head around here. Clearing, depository trusts, LIBOR, yield curves, volatility surfaces, value at risk. Basel III or Mifid 2,
If those seem painful, might I suggest you watch it's a wonderful life. The idea of a run in a bank could help you.

Just because you can take a band-aid off doesn't mean you are qualified for brain surgery.
The global financial system is becoming more, not less complex. The Fed sets the monetary policy in the United States, still the worlds biggest economy. It directly sets the tone for Fixed Income Currency and Commodity (FICC) trading in the lit economy. And mostly the grey and black markets too.
Price stability and interest rates, borrowing costs for the non rich.

Everything you know about the value of anything in the future and the concept of the net present value of any future income you might have.
Say youre a farmer and your harvest comes in Late summer and you need to borrow for the fertilizer now or the tractor needs repaired. Then you borrow money. Rates set are dependent on the Fed.

Does this help you any, or do you really know why there's a fed, but just not get it, and want to abolish it?

Tell me about your plan.
You'll forgive me for not calling you genius

As expected you had to go to Google. So you had difficulty in finding something to fit your agenda.... a propaganda site making The Federal Reserve look good. You state that they have made the monetary system seem complicated, this is done on purpose just as the IRS does with its 70K plus pages of codes. 70K plus pages and less than 200 written words gets rid of them. And by the way very few banks are Basel 111 compliant as much as you would like to tell us otherwise. There will be no bail outs the next time, too big to fail my hole. Derivatives are still a major problem.


The Federal Reserve is not a government agency, it is a corporation owned by Private Bankers (not stated on your propaganda site).


A quote in 1790 from Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the House of Rothschild...


"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws."


A year later he founded The First Bank of the United States with a group of other private bankers and introduced a debt based currency in order to enrich the banksters and enslave the people.


By the time its 20 year charter was up the American economy was in ruins. Congress did not want to renew the charter and wished to return to an interest free, state issued, value based currency. Rothschild threatened war which came about in 1812 through the funding of the Rothschild controlled Bank of England. After the war The Second Bank of the United States was formed which returned the people to the same debt based currency as before.


When the charter was up in 1832 President Andrew Jackson fulfilled his promise to the people and did not renew the charter. A failed assassination attempt followed.


Fast forward to 1913, the bankers met in Jekyll Island with the sole purpose of forming the Third Bank of the United States. This time they changed the name to The Federal Reserve Bank in order to give it a quasi governmental image. They had their man in place (Woodrow Wilson) in order to pass it through congress which happened on Dec 23nd, 1913 (The Federal Reserve Act) when all opposition were on Christmas vacation. That charter ended in 2013  but unfortunately continues today.. In 1913 The IRS was also formed to become the collection agency of the Federal Reserve. The IRS is also a private corporation.


In 1919 Woodrow Wilson regretted what he had done. Quote "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."


After the Great Depression FDR took the dollar off the Gold Standard at the request of The Federal Reserve so they could print currency at will, this time from fresh air.


To this day they are still printing there way out of trouble mainly digitally, numbers on a screen and the national debt is nearing 20T but the total debt is far far greater. It is only a matter of when the inevitable happens, a total economic collapse and the destruction of the dollar.


The solution... A honest debt free (interest free) valued currency with weights and measures printed by The US Treasury. An alternative to the SWIFT banking system along with other security measures to prevent private bankers from stealing the money. Phase out The Federal Reserve banking system over time.

An old buddy chiming in I see. I don't give one damn weather you work in the financial system or not, ye lot seem to be the most brainwashed when it comes to the Fed anyway. You can't be informed that you work for a corrupt system. I also have not met a good financial adviser yet.

This is my last response to you, you are a total waste of my time and energy.

I knew it was going to be the Jews!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 11:20:37 AM
Quote from: stew on January 24, 2017, 09:31:32 AM

The dems have won elections using the electoral college system, were the voters rednecks then?

Em, you conveniently and deliberately left out the fact that any time a Democrat has won the electoral college, they've also won the popular vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2017, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 24, 2017, 09:49:46 AM
The Dems really need to let the popular vote go. It would have been a completely differently run election if it was based on popular vote. Maybe Hillary would have won, but you can't assume so just because she gathered more votes in a system that actively discourages campaigning in a state you know you have no chance in.

Maybe Trump needs to let it go. He's the one making the big deal with unsupported bullshit about illegal immigrants padding Hillary's vote count.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 24, 2017, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2017, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 24, 2017, 09:49:46 AM
The Dems really need to let the popular vote go. It would have been a completely differently run election if it was based on popular vote. Maybe Hillary would have won, but you can't assume so just because she gathered more votes in a system that actively discourages campaigning in a state you know you have no chance in.

Maybe Trump needs to let it go. He's the one making the big deal with unsupported bullshit about illegal immigrants padding Hillary's vote count.

He does need to let it go, he won for frigs sake!

I don't think there is any doubt some people voted who hadn't the right to do so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2017, 12:16:22 PM
Clinton was too complacent. And Trump ran on a platform of change. So now he has to deliver.
I really don't think the GOP was ready for this election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2017, 12:42:41 PM
Can you imagine if the results were flipped and 2M Trump supporters protested Hillarys election and tried the shut down the inauguration. I'd say we'd be hearing some "alternative facts" from the MSM regarding  Trump supporters and their behavior compared to what we're hearing about Hillarys mob
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2017, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 24, 2017, 08:21:25 AM
Grab a coffee and read this preferably while sitting down ;) ;)

https://patribotics.wordpress.com/ (https://patribotics.wordpress.com/)

Didn't Obama go over and try to influence the outcome of the Brexit vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 12:42:41 PM
Can you imagine if the results were flipped and 2M Trump supporters protested Hillarys election and tried the shut down the inauguration. I'd say we'd be hearing some "alternative facts" from the MSM regarding  Trump supporters and their behavior compared to what we're hearing about Hillarys mob
But you're kind of missing the point that Clinton, whatever you think of her, clearly didn't use blatantly fascist campaigning tactics and rhetoric, or anything close to it, whereas her opponent clearly did, and has continued in that vein.

People are entitled to protest about whatever they want, as they would have been had Clinton been elected, and as they were entitled to do against Obama.

People are also entitled to make judgments about the values and validity of such protest.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2017, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 12:42:41 PM
Can you imagine if the results were flipped and 2M Trump supporters protested Hillarys election and tried the shut down the inauguration. I'd say we'd be hearing some "alternative facts" from the MSM regarding  Trump supporters and their behavior compared to what we're hearing about Hillarys mob
But you're kind of missing the point that Clinton, whatever you think of her, clearly didn't use blatantly fascist campaigning tactics and rhetoric, or anything close to it, whereas her opponent clearly did, and has continued in that vein.

People are entitled to protest about whatever they want, as they would have been had Clinton been elected, and as they were entitled to do against Obama.

People are also entitled to make judgments about the values and validity of such protest.

Sending operatives in to disrupt and cause trouble at Trumps rally's....then have your buddies in the main stream media jump all over it and talk about nothing else for days on end....that's straight out of Hitler's playbook
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2017, 01:47:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 12:42:41 PM
Can you imagine if the results were flipped and 2M Trump supporters protested Hillarys election and tried the shut down the inauguration. I'd say we'd be hearing some "alternative facts" from the MSM regarding  Trump supporters and their behavior compared to what we're hearing about Hillarys mob
But you're kind of missing the point that Clinton, whatever you think of her, clearly didn't use blatantly fascist campaigning tactics and rhetoric, or anything close to it, whereas her opponent clearly did, and has continued in that vein.

People are entitled to protest about whatever they want, as they would have been had Clinton been elected, and as they were entitled to do against Obama.

People are also entitled to make judgments about the values and validity of such protest.

Sending operatives in to disrupt and cause trouble at Trumps rally's....then have your buddies in the main stream media jump all over it and talk about nothing else for days on end....that's straight out of Hitler's playbook

Yes, it was because of Hillary that Trump was encouraging his supporters to get violent with protestors!

Not condoning it, but if you were in the filthy game of politics, why the hell WOULDN'T you encourage people to go in and try to elicit a reaction once you'd seen his response and behaviour?

He can't help himself. Just like he can't help but respond to every trivial little slight and criticism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 12:42:41 PM
Can you imagine if the results were flipped and 2M Trump supporters protested Hillarys election and tried the shut down the inauguration. I'd say we'd be hearing some "alternative facts" from the MSM regarding  Trump supporters and their behavior compared to what we're hearing about Hillarys mob
But you're kind of missing the point that Clinton, whatever you think of her, clearly didn't use blatantly fascist campaigning tactics and rhetoric, or anything close to it, whereas her opponent clearly did, and has continued in that vein.

People are entitled to protest about whatever they want, as they would have been had Clinton been elected, and as they were entitled to do against Obama.

People are also entitled to make judgments about the values and validity of such protest.

Sending operatives in to disrupt and cause trouble at Trumps rally's....then have your buddies in the main stream media jump all over it and talk about nothing else for days on end....that's straight out of Hitler's playbook
Trump supporters are more than capable of causing trouble without anybody helping them.

https://twitter.com/Gavin_McInnes/status/823661115200733184

And Trump doesn't need you to jump in and make ridiculous comparisons to people who aren't even opponents of his being like something out of Nazi Germany, he's well capable of that himself -  as he did with feminists, the media, his own intelligence services and John McCain.

That's something that people trapped in the Trump bubble don't seem to understand - when you keep bogusly comparing other people to Nazis, it just makes you look like a fool.

Nazi comparisons should be reserved for where they're clearly accurate - such as shouting loudly that people of a certain religion should be blatantly and shamelessly discriminated against.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
That's why we now have alternative facts......you cherry picked things Trump said or did and completely ignore similar things the Democrats said and did
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2017, 02:10:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
That's why we now have alternative facts......you cherry picked things Trump said or did and completely ignore similar things the Democrats said and did
PJ what's his name compared Trump and Clinton by saying she was wrong about stuff within the normal parameters.
Trump is a catastrophe.  I wonder if the GOP will.survive him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
That's why we now have alternative facts......you cherry picked things Trump said or did and completely ignore similar things the Democrats said and did

We don't have "alternative facts".

We have facts and falsehoods.

"Alternative facts" are falsehoods.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
That's why we now have alternative facts......you cherry picked things Trump said or did and completely ignore similar things the Democrats said and did

We don't have "alternative facts".

We have facts and falsehoods.

"Alternative facts" are falsehoods.

Well we have them now whether you like it or not, thanks in no small part to the atrocious behavior of the lamecstream media during the election....a lot of people just don't believe them any more


Case in point Time magazines false report about Trump removing bust of MLK
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 24, 2017, 03:23:45 PM
See El Presidente has signed an executive order  to advance the keystone and Dakota pipelines
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 24, 2017, 03:29:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
That's why we now have alternative facts......you cherry picked things Trump said or did and completely ignore similar things the Democrats said and did

We don't have "alternative facts".

We have facts and falsehoods.

"Alternative facts" are falsehoods.

Well we have them now whether you like it or not, thanks in no small part to the atrocious behavior of the lamecstream media during the election....a lot of people just don't believe them any more


Case in point Time magazines false report about Trump removing bust of MLK

That is not an alternative fact that was incorrect reporting!!! The reporter in question has retracted several times!!

Spicer/Trump/anyone in Trump's campaign have retracted none of their outlandish and ultimately false claims!!! Let's not pretend it was the mainstream media who started this bullshit it was Drumpf when he came down that escalator and said Mexicans were bringing drugs, crime and rapists... oh and some presumable are good people!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
That's why we now have alternative facts......you cherry picked things Trump said or did and completely ignore similar things the Democrats said and did

We don't have "alternative facts".

We have facts and falsehoods.

"Alternative facts" are falsehoods.

Well we have them now whether you like it or not, thanks in no small part to the atrocious behavior of the lamecstream media during the election....a lot of people just don't believe them any more


Case in point Time magazines false report about Trump removing bust of MLK

Which was corrected within minutes. The journalist responsible sent out 12 tweets that the information previously reported was erroneous.

Whereas the Trump campaign is still sticking to its "alternative facts", sorry, falsehoods.

"Lamestream media" one of the many cliches used by Trump supporters to try to delegitimise anything that calls out Trump on anything.

You might think it makes you look smart to throw in such meaningless cliches, it doesn't - it just makes you look really foolish.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 24, 2017, 04:15:28 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 23, 2017, 10:21:17 PM
And, Foxcommander, the marches are not temper tantrums by the petulant.  Rather, they are a reaction to what a Trump presidency actually means, and now I'm sick of hearing the mantra "give him a chance"; his appointees and nominees were his chance, and look who he picked.  Sessions as Attorney-General--racist! Perry in Energy--imbecile who thought the job entailed being an embassy door for the fossil fuel industry. Climate change denier in charge of EPA.  Exxon oil billionaire in charge of State.  Goldman Sach out the wazoo.  King of foreclosures in charge of Treasury.  Ben Carson over HUD.  DeVos in charge of Education, she who has carried on a crusade against public schools.  Bannon and Kellyanne Conway, and Spicer, the Goebbels of "alternative facts" and leading an all-out assault on freedom of speech and a free press.

That's what they look like. Can't accept the result of the election. If it was a womens march then I take it that it was also a pro abortion march. Not every woman is behind that.

A lot of folk didn't want Obama but had to suck it up when he got voted in.
President Trump has the right to choose who he wants to run departments.

Compare to the Irish government - is Frances Fitzgerald really qualifed to run the Justice Department? She's a former social worker!
Ditto
Michael Noonan (finance)- secondary school teacher
Simon Harris (health)- Journalist
Michael Creed (fisheries)- legal studies
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Jobs) - secondary skool teacher
Regina Doherty (Minister of state) - Morketing
etc...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 24, 2017, 04:51:21 PM
It was a women's march, but abortion is not the sole women's issue.  Sadly I know a lot of people who voted for Trump simply as an anti-abortion stance when there were many more moral issues at stake here.

And yes, Trump has the right to nominate his people, but equally millions of protesters have the right to take to the streets to express their dissatisfaction with deplorable policies and appointments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2017, 04:54:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
That's why we now have alternative facts......you cherry picked things Trump said or did and completely ignore similar things the Democrats said and did

We don't have "alternative facts".

We have facts and falsehoods.

"Alternative facts" are falsehoods.

Well we have them now whether you like it or not, thanks in no small part to the atrocious behavior of the lamecstream media during the election....a lot of people just don't believe them any more


Case in point Time magazines false report about Trump removing bust of MLK

Which was corrected within minutes. The journalist responsible sent out 12 tweets that the information previously reported was erroneous.

Whereas the Trump campaign is still sticking to its "alternative facts", sorry, falsehoods.

"Lamestream media" one of the many cliches used by Trump supporters to try to delegitimise anything that calls out Trump on anything.

You might think it makes you look smart to throw in such meaningless cliches, it doesn't - it just makes you look really foolish.

Doesn't matter that it was retracted....it was put out and tweeted and retweeted the world over within minutes. Your making the assumption that everyone who read the original story read the retraction....I can guarantee you they didnt.  There was a case study where a Trump supporter made some outlandish claim and that outlandish claim was retweeted 15,000 times.  The "correction" was retweeted something like 150 times

That "reporter" for Time magazine should have been fired on the spot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 24, 2017, 05:14:28 PM
QuoteThat "reporter" for Time magazine should have been fired on the spot

Presumably Spicer should have gotten the same treatment for his lies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2017, 05:23:07 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 24, 2017, 05:14:28 PM
QuoteThat "reporter" for Time magazine should have been fired on the spot

Presumably Spicer should have gotten the same treatment for his lies?

Why???

His job is to spin the facts....just like Josh Ernest before him did for Obama

A reporters job is to report the news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2017, 05:33:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 05:23:07 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 24, 2017, 05:14:28 PM
QuoteThat "reporter" for Time magazine should have been fired on the spot

Presumably Spicer should have gotten the same treatment for his lies?

Why???

His job is to spin the facts....just like Josh Ernest before him did for Obama

A reporters job is to report the news
Its not to lie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 05:40:57 PM
Sean Spicer on January 4th:

"If you lose the respect and trust of the press corps, you've got nothing."

"I don't think any communicator worth their salt can go out and tell a lie."

"You can spin the way you want, but I think to go out and tell a lie is something that's just not acceptable."

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/01/22/sean-spicer-i-couldnt-lie-axelrod-sot-rs.cnn

His first five minute press briefing on his first day on the job is all it took for him to do all of that spectacularly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 05:49:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 04:54:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
That's why we now have alternative facts......you cherry picked things Trump said or did and completely ignore similar things the Democrats said and did

We don't have "alternative facts".

We have facts and falsehoods.

"Alternative facts" are falsehoods.

Well we have them now whether you like it or not, thanks in no small part to the atrocious behavior of the lamecstream media during the election....a lot of people just don't believe them any more


Case in point Time magazines false report about Trump removing bust of MLK

Which was corrected within minutes. The journalist responsible sent out 12 tweets that the information previously reported was erroneous.

Whereas the Trump campaign is still sticking to its "alternative facts", sorry, falsehoods.

"Lamestream media" one of the many cliches used by Trump supporters to try to delegitimise anything that calls out Trump on anything.

You might think it makes you look smart to throw in such meaningless cliches, it doesn't - it just makes you look really foolish.

Doesn't matter that it was retracted....it was put out and tweeted and retweeted the world over within minutes. Your making the assumption that everyone who read the original story read the retraction....I can guarantee you they didnt.  There was a case study where a Trump supporter made some outlandish claim and that outlandish claim was retweeted 15,000 times.  The "correction" was retweeted something like 150 times

That "reporter" for Time magazine should have been fired on the spot

Of course it matters that it was retracted. Just as it would have mattered if it was not retracted.

The mistake was admitted almost immediately.

News reporters don't deliberately lie and damage their reputation over something that can so easily be proven false.

This White House press secretary on the other hand, does. And didn't retract. And that matters. A lot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2017, 05:55:57 PM
News reporters don't deliberately lie??   You're having a laugh, right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 06:08:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 05:55:57 PM
News reporters don't deliberately lie??   You're having a laugh, right?
Again, news reporters for reputable media outlets don't deliberately lie over something that can so obviously be proven false, ie. can be proven false within a few seconds, because their reputation will obviously be damaged as a result.

"News reporters" for media outlets you and many Trump supporters favour most definitely do lie, on the other hand. But these outlets tend not to be reputable and are generally thinly veiled propaganda sites.

And Trump's White House press secretary most certainly does lie in a manner that can be proven false within a few seconds.

And you appear to be defending him over it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 24, 2017, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 06:08:56 PM
But these outlets tend not to be reputable and are generally thinly veiled propaganda sites.

CNN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 24, 2017, 06:23:15 PM
Could learn a thing or two from another Donald.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiPe1OiKQuk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2017, 06:26:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2017, 06:08:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 05:55:57 PM
News reporters don't deliberately lie??   You're having a laugh, right?
Again, news reporters for reputable media outlets don't deliberately lie over something that can so obviously be proven false, ie. can be proven false within a few seconds, because their reputation will obviously be damaged as a result.

"News reporters" for media outlets you and many Trump supporters favour most definitely do lie, on the other hand. But these outlets tend not to be reputable and are generally thinly veiled propaganda sites.

And Trump's White House press secretary most certainly does lie in a manner that can be proven false within a few seconds.

And you appear to be defending him over it.

Really??  You need to get out more

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/ex-trump-girlfriend-new-york-times-223205


"They spun it to where it appeared negative. I did not have a negative experience with Donald Trump, and I don't appreciate them making it look like that I was saying that it was a negative experience because it was not," Brewer Lane said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2017, 06:31:12 PM
Spicer is working for Bannon. See how many questions the big channels get where he is involved. Trump is going to have a very particular communication strategy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2017, 08:41:54 PM
Dutch appeal to Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-xxis7hDOE&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 25, 2017, 01:18:44 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 24, 2017, 05:01:32 AM

As expected you had to go to Google.
So you had difficulty in finding something to fit your agenda.... a propaganda site making The Federal Reserve look good. You state that they have made the monetary system seem complicated, this is done on purpose just as the IRS does with its 70K plus pages of codes. 70K plus pages and less than 200 written words gets rid of them. And by the way very few banks are Basel 111 compliant as much as you would like to tell us otherwise. There will be no bail outs the next time, too big to fail my hole. Derivatives are still a major problem
.

I can't find anything in the paragraph that makes any sense- If I knew what your point was I would respond..

Quote from: Seamus on January 24, 2017, 05:01:32 AMThe Federal Reserve is not a government agency, it is a corporation owned by Private Bankers (not stated on your propaganda site).

Now, lets say that you are talking about the Federal Reserve Board here- it is actually an independent Federal Government Agency. (actual fact not alternative fact)

And even if you are talking about FOMC, that is 7 of the the FRB board plus 5 of the 12 Federal Reserve Banks heads (NY plus 4 others)

Maybe you are talking about the Federal Reserve Bank of NY?



Quote from: Seamus on January 24, 2017, 05:01:32 AM
To this day they are still printing there way out of trouble mainly digitally, numbers on a screen and the national debt is nearing 20T but the total debt is far far greater. It is only a matter of when the inevitable happens, a total economic collapse and the destruction of the dollar.


The solution... A honest debt free (interest free) valued currency with weights and measures printed by The US Treasury. An alternative to the SWIFT banking system along with other security measures to prevent private bankers from stealing the money. Phase out The Federal Reserve banking system over time.

An old buddy chiming in I see. I don't give one damn weather you work in the financial system or not, ye lot seem to be the most brainwashed when it comes to the Fed anyway. You can't be informed that you work for a corrupt system. I also have not met a good financial adviser yet.

This is my last response to you, you are a total waste of my time and energy.

I have read this through a few times and can't for the life of me understand what you're trying to say.
I get that you don't like the Fed but I'm really not sure why. The opinions you are presenting as facts are not actually correct. I agree with you that most financial advisors are chancers, not my line of work.
I think your key proposal is this A honest debt free (interest free) valued currency with weights and measures printed by The US Treasury but I'm not sure what that means.

I do believe that you have actually no idea what you're talking about and that you are just copying and pasting gibberish from websites that propose the abolition of the Fed. So, good luck with that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 25, 2017, 09:59:51 AM
The IRS was targeting conservatives and auditing them illegally, tuck the IRS and every other government body that is biased politically!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2017, 11:58:29 AM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2017, 09:59:51 AM
The IRS was targeting conservatives and auditing them illegally, tuck the IRS and every other government body that is biased politically!

If illegal shit went down, I expect lots of criminal charges have been filed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 25, 2017, 02:20:24 PM
So Tapper is on the news last night and tells the President if he thinks there is voter fraud amounting to millions of votes he should investigate it . . .

But Trump said nobody watches CNN anymore?!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2017, 03:27:31 PM
Mara Liason questioned Spicer over it yesterday too.

So they basically called his bluff on his bullshit and now we are going to get a big, national investigation where no evidence whatsoever, beyond the Grand Narcissist's hurt feelings, exists to warrant it.

Fiscal conservatism...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 25, 2017, 04:29:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2017, 03:27:31 PM
Mara Liason questioned Spicer over it yesterday too.

So they basically called his bluff on his bullshit and now we are going to get a big, national investigation where no evidence whatsoever, beyond the Grand Narcissist's hurt feelings, exists to warrant it.

Fiscal conservatism...

As has been noted on Twitter... Democrats engineered 3-5m illegal votes but weren't smart enough to distribute them to make up the 77,000 shortfall it would have taken to win the Electoral college!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2017, 05:58:31 PM
Good piece on politico about what liberals need to do in opposition to Trump.

Talks about the counterproductiveness of nonsense like Madonna was coming out with and that rat Richard Spencer getting punched, but I particularly like the last two about finding some focus (GOP did this with Obamacare and the tea party - this piece recommends the same) and keeping an eye on issues that matter, instead of letting everything slip by due to Trump's personality freakshow drowning everything out.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/6-ways-not-to-resist-donald-trump-214689#superComments (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/6-ways-not-to-resist-donald-trump-214689#superComments)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 25, 2017, 06:08:39 PM
Exactly!!!!! That's what I've been saying all along. Focus on key issues that matter to people, and put forward policies to address them. The sooner Trump is a footnote the better, but if Dems think this was some sort of fluke then they are going to get caught again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: passedit on January 25, 2017, 06:59:19 PM
The Dutch are no fools. They've got a head start sucking up to Trump. I'm sure Enda won't be far behind

https://youtu.be/ELD2AwFN9Nc (https://youtu.be/ELD2AwFN9Nc)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2017, 07:25:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2017, 05:58:31 PM
Good piece on politico about what liberals need to do in opposition to Trump.

Talks about the counterproductiveness of nonsense like Madonna was coming out with and that rat Richard Spencer getting punched, but I particularly like the last two about finding some focus (GOP did this with Obamacare and the tea party - this piece recommends the same) and keeping an eye on issues that matter, instead of letting everything slip by due to Trump's personality freakshow drowning everything out.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/6-ways-not-to-resist-donald-trump-214689#superComments (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/6-ways-not-to-resist-donald-trump-214689#superComments)
Spencer deserved the punch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rh1dhur4aI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2017, 08:16:00 PM
https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ (https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/)

Long article, and well worth the read. All about how Trump's campaign used big data to personalize their messaging. The same analytics company is now working with far right parties in Germany and France, and they have massive social media following. This is scary shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 25, 2017, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2017, 08:16:00 PM
https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ (https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/)

In short then the left and far left are a bunch of ignorant fuckmonkeys that are ignorant to the feelings of the voters?

You cannot vote for the dems in this scenario, they are too stupid to vote for

Long article, and well worth the read. All about how Trump's campaign used big data to personalize their messaging. The same analytics company is now working with far right parties in Germany and France, and they have massive social media following. This is scary shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 25, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688 (https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688)

You gotta laugh - NBC News confirms Tiffany Trump is registered to vote in two states, New York & Pennsylvania. (That is NOT a crime.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 25, 2017, 09:40:21 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 25, 2017, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 25, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688 (https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688)

You gotta laugh - NBC News confirms Tiffany Trump is registered to vote in two states, New York & Pennsylvania. (That is NOT a crime.)

And Steve Bannon...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

Major figures in the Trump camp are committing VOTER FRAUD! Sad!...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 25, 2017, 09:47:13 PM
I think Trump will be very good for the American economy in a purely financial sense, he doesn't give a shite about other countries,  numerous world leaders would probably like to follow similar policies but don't have the power to follow through. Very undiplomatic protectionism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 25, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 25, 2017, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 25, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688 (https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688)

You gotta laugh - NBC News confirms Tiffany Trump is registered to vote in two states, New York & Pennsylvania. (That is NOT a crime.)

And Steve Bannon...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

Major figures in the Trump camp are committing VOTER FRAUD! Sad!...

Trump is crazy like a fox....he's after goading the press into demanding an investigation.  Don't be surprised if he has a "Trump" card in his back pocket
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:01:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 25, 2017, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 25, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688 (https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688)

You gotta laugh - NBC News confirms Tiffany Trump is registered to vote in two states, New York & Pennsylvania. (That is NOT a crime.)

And Steve Bannon...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

Major figures in the Trump camp are committing VOTER FRAUD! Sad!...

Trump is crazy like a fox....he's after goading the press into demanding an investigation.  Don't be surprised if he has a "Trump" card in his back pocket

What would or could that "Trump" card be?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2017, 10:02:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 25, 2017, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 25, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688 (https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688)

You gotta laugh - NBC News confirms Tiffany Trump is registered to vote in two states, New York & Pennsylvania. (That is NOT a crime.)

And Steve Bannon...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

Major figures in the Trump camp are committing VOTER FRAUD! Sad!...
Such a fraudulent snowflake
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 25, 2017, 10:02:52 PM
In the short term the markets will surge under Trump because they think there is a lot of financial deregulation and lower taxes on corporate profits and capital gains coming. However in the longer term it is a surge in infrastructure spending that will promote real economic growth. The jury is still out on whether the GOP will back Trump on the spending.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 25, 2017, 10:06:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:01:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 25, 2017, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 25, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688 (https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688)

You gotta laugh - NBC News confirms Tiffany Trump is registered to vote in two states, New York & Pennsylvania. (That is NOT a crime.)

And Steve Bannon...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

Major figures in the Trump camp are committing VOTER FRAUD! Sad!...

Trump is crazy like a fox....he's after goading the press into demanding an investigation.  Don't be surprised if he has a "Trump" card in his back pocket
J
What would or could that "Trump" card be?

I don't know.... but would you be at all surprised if there was a hacked DNC email alluding to the fact?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2017, 09:47:13 PM
I think Trump will be very good for the American economy in a purely financial sense, he doesn't give a shite about other countries,  numerous world leaders would probably like to follow similar policies but don't have the power to follow through. Very undiplomatic protectionism.

Well tariffs work both ways.

And free markets mean cheaper goods all around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 10:06:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:01:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 25, 2017, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 25, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688 (https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688)

You gotta laugh - NBC News confirms Tiffany Trump is registered to vote in two states, New York & Pennsylvania. (That is NOT a crime.)

And Steve Bannon...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

Major figures in the Trump camp are committing VOTER FRAUD! Sad!...

Trump is crazy like a fox....he's after goading the press into demanding an investigation.  Don't be surprised if he has a "Trump" card in his back pocket
J
What would or could that "Trump" card be?

I don't know.... but would you be at all surprised if there was a hacked DNC email alluding to the fact?

That the Dems orchestrated 3-5 million illegal votes?

Yer... no.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 25, 2017, 10:32:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 10:06:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:01:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 25, 2017, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 25, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688 (https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688)

You gotta laugh - NBC News confirms Tiffany Trump is registered to vote in two states, New York & Pennsylvania. (That is NOT a crime.)

And Steve Bannon...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

Major figures in the Trump camp are committing VOTER FRAUD! Sad!...

Trump is crazy like a fox....he's after goading the press into demanding an investigation.  Don't be surprised if he has a "Trump" card in his back pocket
J
What would or could that "Trump" card be?

I don't know.... but would you be at all surprised if there was a hacked DNC email alluding to the fact?

That the Dems orchestrated 3-5 million illegal votes?

Yer... no.

All he needs is one email from a senior Democrat acknowledging, encouraging or ignoring the fact that illegals voted and all hell will break loose
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 25, 2017, 10:33:32 PM
His policy of keeping the press and the public busy with nonsense seems to be working a treat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2017, 10:39:45 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/01/24/styrofoam-presidency-trump-aesthetics/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2017, 10:46:29 PM
https://video.repubblica.it/socialnews/freemelania-un-hashtag-per-salvare-la-first-lady-usa-dal-marito/265954/266331
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:50:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 10:32:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 10:06:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2017, 10:01:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 25, 2017, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 25, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688 (https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/824354058651762688)

You gotta laugh - NBC News confirms Tiffany Trump is registered to vote in two states, New York & Pennsylvania. (That is NOT a crime.)

And Steve Bannon...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

Major figures in the Trump camp are committing VOTER FRAUD! Sad!...

Trump is crazy like a fox....he's after goading the press into demanding an investigation.  Don't be surprised if he has a "Trump" card in his back pocket
J
What would or could that "Trump" card be?

I don't know.... but would you be at all surprised if there was a hacked DNC email alluding to the fact?

That the Dems orchestrated 3-5 million illegal votes?

Yer... no.

All he needs is one email from a senior Democrat acknowledging, encouraging or ignoring the fact that illegals voted and all hell will break loose

Will the same hell break loose if an email (or a statement) turns up from a senior Republican acknowledging that they're targeting minority Democrats with their voter suppression drives?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 25, 2017, 11:29:36 PM
No....because that doesn't happen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2017, 11:40:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2017, 11:29:36 PM
No....because that doesn't happen

Right. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2017, 11:56:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 25, 2017, 10:33:32 PM
His policy of keeping the press and the public busy with nonsense seems to be working a treat

Seafoid suggested that the other day.

I don't think its intentional on Trump's part, but it may well be effective.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 26, 2017, 12:00:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2017, 11:56:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 25, 2017, 10:33:32 PM
His policy of keeping the press and the public busy with nonsense seems to be working a treat

Seafoid suggested that the other day.

I don't think its intentional on Trump's part, but it may well be effective.

Y :Deah true enough,

Although his overall aim of this whole escapade is to be talked about, which is working marvelously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 26, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
Newsnight reporting tonight that executive orders are on the way this week revoking some international treaties (climate change suspected to be one) and cutting US funding to UN programmes by 40%.

Idiocracy in action.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
Newsnight reporting tonight that executive orders are on the way this week revoking some international treaties (climate change suspected to be one) and cutting US funding to UN programmes by 40%.

Idiocracy in action.

That was a crazy stunt pulled by Obama and the UN against Israel.... most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 26, 2017, 01:19:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it

Yup- that is absolutely correct, also the majority of trump supporters believe the earth is less than 5000 years old, so there's that.

there is a case that Pi should be rounded to 3 - makes the sums a bit easier
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
Newsnight reporting tonight that executive orders are on the way this week revoking some international treaties (climate change suspected to be one) and cutting US funding to UN programmes by 40%.

Idiocracy in action.

That was a crazy stunt pulled by Obama and the UN against Israel.... most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it

It was about time the US stood up to Israel, for as much as it was worth. The c***ts are pushing on regardless, full steam ahead, with the land stealing and settlement building.

Why are your Trump supporting friends so anti-UN?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:39:14 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 26, 2017, 01:19:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it

Yup- that is absolutely correct, also the majority of trump supporters believe the earth is less than 5000 years old, so there's that.

there is a case that Pi should be rounded to 3 - makes the sums a bit easier

Haha....I live in a majority Democratic town but there's also quite a contingent of hard core right wingers. I was in the local coffee shop last Summer and there was a retired cop loudly proclaiming that Obama was a Muslim and that he was trying to turn over sovereignty to the UN.  He started off as a Ben Carson supporter, but as soon as Carson dropped out he added a Trump sticker to his truck
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:44:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
Newsnight reporting tonight that executive orders are on the way this week revoking some international treaties (climate change suspected to be one) and cutting US funding to UN programmes by 40%.

Idiocracy in action.

That was a crazy stunt pulled by Obama and the UN against Israel.... most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it

It was about time the US stood up to Israel, for as much as it was worth. The c***ts are pushing on regardless, full steam ahead, with the land stealing and settlement building.

Why are your Trump supporting friends so anti-UN?

I wouldn't quite call them friends but there are people who believe that the Democrats are against guns, so when the UN takes over no one will have the firepower to offer up any resistance.  These people also believe that the UN will push an open borders agenda and that the United States will have to share it wealth with the rest of the world. (Ie people will come here and go on welfare and not work). 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 01:53:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:39:14 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 26, 2017, 01:19:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it

Yup- that is absolutely correct, also the majority of trump supporters believe the earth is less than 5000 years old, so there's that.

there is a case that Pi should be rounded to 3 - makes the sums a bit easier

Haha....I live in a majority Democratic town but there's also quite a contingent of hard core right wingers. I was in the local coffee shop last Summer and there was a retired cop loudly proclaiming that Obama was a Muslim and that he was trying to turn over sovereignty to the UN.  He started off as a Ben Carson supporter, but as soon as Carson dropped out he added a Trump sticker to his truck

What a f**king moron.

There are plenty of loudmouths of that ilk around where I live in Queens too. You rarely see much expression of political opinion, either way, except for these types of gobshites, with their "Don't Tread on Me" and confederate flags and Trump/Jail Hillary signs/stickers on their vehicles. Invariably white males, looking for attention or a reaction.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 01:55:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:44:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
Newsnight reporting tonight that executive orders are on the way this week revoking some international treaties (climate change suspected to be one) and cutting US funding to UN programmes by 40%.

Idiocracy in action.

That was a crazy stunt pulled by Obama and the UN against Israel.... most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it

It was about time the US stood up to Israel, for as much as it was worth. The c***ts are pushing on regardless, full steam ahead, with the land stealing and settlement building.

Why are your Trump supporting friends so anti-UN?

I wouldn't quite call them friends but there are people who believe that the Democrats are against guns, so when the UN takes over no one will have the firepower to offer up any resistance.  These people also believe that the UN will push an open borders agenda and that the United States will have to share it wealth with the rest of the world. (Ie people will come here and go on welfare and not work).

Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh fans, all of them, no doubt!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 26, 2017, 02:11:39 AM
Trump bullshit tale #1583429

His main evidence of voter fraud comes from the golfer Bernard Langer, who was standing in line to vote, but was disgracefully barred from voting, "and saw people around him who didn't look like they should be able to vote", except Langer is not even eligible to vote. He counts Langer "as a friend", but he's not a friend, according to Langer's daughter.

The last time a leader of a country made a fool of himself over a Ryder Cup golfer like this, it was Biffo drunkenly doing an impression of Philip Walton.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/trump-bernhard-langer-voting-fraud.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 26, 2017, 04:03:07 AM
Trump is just setting the stage for the GOP to launch more voter suppression Laws. All under the guise of defense of the electoral system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 26, 2017, 08:18:20 AM
Sometimes Twitter can be useful

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3DBH6gXcAEvPH9.jpg:large)

Ex Mexican President's responses to Trump are in a language the Drumfpster can understand

https://twitter.com/VicenteFoxQue/status/824360005554044932 (https://twitter.com/VicenteFoxQue/status/824360005554044932)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 26, 2017, 09:13:51 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 26, 2017, 04:03:07 AM
Trump is just setting the stage for the GOP to launch more voter suppression Laws. All under the guise of defense of the electoral system.

Tell me, did the democrats not suppress the votes of the Saunders voters?

Why is it the democrats do not want drivers licenses as proof of identification for voters?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2017, 02:11:39 AM
Trump bullshit tale #1583429

His main evidence of voter fraud comes from the golfer Bernard Langer, who was standing in line to vote, but was disgracefully barred from voting, "and saw people around him who didn't look like they should be able to vote", except Langer is not even eligible to vote. He counts Langer "as a friend", but he's not a friend, according to Langer's daughter.

The last time a leader of a country made a fool of himself over a Ryder Cup golfer like this, it was Biffo drunkenly doing an impression of Philip Walton.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/trump-bernhard-langer-voting-fraud.html
Trump is a Langer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 11:03:04 AM
http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.767507

"He is damaging his own credibility, eliciting new doubts among Republicans who had assumed that once in office, he would calm and settle down. Some American commentators go so far as to maintain that the damage Trump is inflicting now on his presidency is so severe that it may never truly recover."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 26, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
Tiny Hands is now on record that he believes torture works.

This is the President of the United States of America. "Torture works".

One wonders whether that will apply to the justice system at large, or to US citizens or members of the US Army who may be unfortunate to be captured by, say, ISIS.

If it "works", well, why not apply it to the justice system at large?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 26, 2017, 11:13:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
Newsnight reporting tonight that executive orders are on the way this week revoking some international treaties (climate change suspected to be one) and cutting US funding to UN programmes by 40%.

Idiocracy in action.

That was a crazy stunt pulled by Obama and the UN against Israel.... most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it

It was about time the US stood up to Israel, for as much as it was worth. The c***ts are pushing on regardless, full steam ahead, with the land stealing and settlement building.

Why are your Trump supporting friends so anti-UN?

I was very disappointed in Obama for that. That move was a bit gutless. Why wait until 2 weeks before you're leaving? If he was serious, that resolution, and real action, would have been taken 4-6 years ago. Tokenism of the highest order.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 26, 2017, 11:13:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 11:03:04 AM
http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.767507

"He is damaging his own credibility, eliciting new doubts among Republicans who had assumed that once in office, he would calm and settle down. Some American commentators go so far as to maintain that the damage Trump is inflicting now on his presidency is so severe that it may never truly recover."
"The mistake of Trump's opponents was to take him literally but not seriously."

You're supposed to take him seriously but not literally..."

Oh, wait.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 11:27:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 26, 2017, 11:13:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
Newsnight reporting tonight that executive orders are on the way this week revoking some international treaties (climate change suspected to be one) and cutting US funding to UN programmes by 40%.

Idiocracy in action.

That was a crazy stunt pulled by Obama and the UN against Israel.... most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it

It was about time the US stood up to Israel, for as much as it was worth. The c***ts are pushing on regardless, full steam ahead, with the land stealing and settlement building.

Why are your Trump supporting friends so anti-UN?

I was very disappointed in Obama for that. That move was a bit gutless. Why wait until 2 weeks before you're leaving? If he was serious, that resolution, and real action, would have been taken 4-6 years ago. Tokenism of the highest order.

The timing was disappointing, yes, especially when he kept the money flowing for all those years amidst the behaviour of Netanyahu.

But, it was satisfying to see a US president finally stand up to the pricks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 11:30:08 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 11:27:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 26, 2017, 11:13:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 01:13:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
Newsnight reporting tonight that executive orders are on the way this week revoking some international treaties (climate change suspected to be one) and cutting US funding to UN programmes by 40%.

Idiocracy in action.

That was a crazy stunt pulled by Obama and the UN against Israel.... most Trump supporters I know are vehemently anti UN and will applaud any move to defund it

It was about time the US stood up to Israel, for as much as it was worth. The c***ts are pushing on regardless, full steam ahead, with the land stealing and settlement building.

Why are your Trump supporting friends so anti-UN?

I was very disappointed in Obama for that. That move was a bit gutless. Why wait until 2 weeks before you're leaving? If he was serious, that resolution, and real action, would have been taken 4-6 years ago. Tokenism of the highest order.

The timing was disappointing, yes, especially when he kept the money flowing for all those years amidst the behaviour of Netanyahu.

But, it was satisfying to see a US president finally stand up to the pricks.
Clinton waited until the end of his presidency to address Israel too. The Zionist lobby is too powerful to face down during business as usual.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 11:40:04 AM
Trump is turning into a liability for people like Ian O Doherty in the Indo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on January 26, 2017, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 11:40:04 AM
Trump is turning into a liability for people like Ian O Doherty in the Indo.

Ian O'Doherty is a liability. That 5 a side shite in Gort or wherever it was, when he had to live with Muslims for a couple of days,  where they told him he was too fat and he sulked off was priceless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 11:55:50 AM
Quote from: stew on January 26, 2017, 09:13:51 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 26, 2017, 04:03:07 AM
Trump is just setting the stage for the GOP to launch more voter suppression Laws. All under the guise of defense of the electoral system.

Tell me, did the democrats not suppress the votes of the Saunders voters?

Why is it the democrats do not want drivers licenses as proof of identification for voters?

Fair point on how Sanders was treated.

However, that does not negate the widespread attempts by the GOP to target minority participation in elections. Some of them are on record as acknowledging that the reason they're doing it IS to suppress that vote. Why else would you shut down Sunday voting except to make it more difficult for "Souls to the Polls" and other such efforts?  Why are the vast majority of people targeted by GOP operations such as Crosscheck minorities? Drivers licenses, which not everyone can get, regardless of status, is the least of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 26, 2017, 11:57:27 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3F8Ar9XAAAlaFJ.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 26, 2017, 12:00:28 PM
The markets like him Dow over 20,000.  He'll win big or it's 2007 all over again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 26, 2017, 12:03:07 PM
Someone should suggest bringing El Presidente to this place for lunch

https://www.facebook.com/georgehtakei/videos/1313954248694696/ (https://www.facebook.com/georgehtakei/videos/1313954248694696/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 26, 2017, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 11:40:04 AM
Trump is turning into a liability for people like Ian O Doherty in the Indo.
I trust, with the rise of the torture-loving Tiny Hands to the US presidency, Ian has been feeling a lot better about himself lately and no longer feels the need to denigrate somebody who disagrees with him by calling them a "ferocious nonce" and a "rampant pedo" (sic)?

(http://tfk.thefreekick.com/uploads/default/optimized/3X/9/c/9cddf0b64ec9a797f1aa2e8f6d194c4d5f0b3b8f_1_280x500.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 26, 2017, 12:00:28 PM
The markets like him Dow over 20,000.  He'll win big or it's 2007 all over again.

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

It looks pretty much like a continuation of the same overall upward trend since 2009.

It plateaued for a few months during the summer-autumn general election campaign. I guess investors like to wait and see. And for now, he's talking about less regs and taxes. Let's see what happens if he starts the trade wars.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 26, 2017, 05:35:01 PM
Is this unusual or standard practice in terms of new administrations?

US State department's entire senior management team quits as Secretary Rex Tillerson takes up post

The move was part of an exit of officials who do not want to work under Donald Trump
Andrew Buncombe New York |

The entire senior level of management officials at the US State department has resigned - rather than serve under President Donald Trump.

In the latest display of disquiet among civil servants in Washington over the new commander-in-chief, the four top senior officials at the equivalent of America's foreign ministry, announced they were standing down.

The new Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, was present in the department's offices in the Foggy Bottom neighborhood of Washington DC, when the officials resigned on Wednesday, the Washington Post reported.

The officials were Patrick Kennedy, Under Secretary of State for Management, Assistant Secretary of State for Administration Joyce Anne Barr, Assistant Secretary of State for Consular Affairs Michele Bond and Ambassador Gentry Smith, director of the Office of Foreign Missions. All four of the officials served under both Democratic and Republican administrations.

The state department officials join a growing number of civil servants who have left since Mr Trump took office on January 20.

Assistant Secretary of State for Diplomatic Security Gregory Starr, and director of the Bureau of Overseas Building Operations Lydia Muniz left last Friday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2017, 05:52:08 PM
Quote from: stew on January 26, 2017, 09:13:51 AM
Why is it the democrats do not want drivers licenses as proof of identification for voters?

Because "voter fraud" is as good as non-existent, and voter suppression laws are blatant conservative efforts to block blacks and other minorities from voting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 06:10:19 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 26, 2017, 05:35:01 PM
Is this unusual or standard practice in terms of new administrations?

US State department's entire senior management team quits as Secretary Rex Tillerson takes up post

The move was part of an exit of officials who do not want to work under Donald Trump
Andrew Buncombe New York |

The entire senior level of management officials at the US State department has resigned - rather than serve under President Donald Trump.

In the latest display of disquiet among civil servants in Washington over the new commander-in-chief, the four top senior officials at the equivalent of America's foreign ministry, announced they were standing down.

The new Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, was present in the department's offices in the Foggy Bottom neighborhood of Washington DC, when the officials resigned on Wednesday, the Washington Post reported.

The officials were Patrick Kennedy, Under Secretary of State for Management, Assistant Secretary of State for Administration Joyce Anne Barr, Assistant Secretary of State for Consular Affairs Michele Bond and Ambassador Gentry Smith, director of the Office of Foreign Missions. All four of the officials served under both Democratic and Republican administrations.

The state department officials join a growing number of civil servants who have left since Mr Trump took office on January 20.

Assistant Secretary of State for Diplomatic Security Gregory Starr, and director of the Bureau of Overseas Building Operations Lydia Muniz left last Friday.

I think its very unusual for non-political, career civil servants to quit, especially en masse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on January 26, 2017, 06:40:23 PM
This was shown on newsnight last night before the credits rolled. Very funny  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gneBUA39mnI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gneBUA39mnI)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2017, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Why....what did he do?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: longballin on January 26, 2017, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Why....what did he do?

or CIA or Russians or martians or watever conspiracy theory you have going on   ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: longballin on January 26, 2017, 07:27:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.

I hear you but would it have been a bad thing if Hitler had been assassinated when he took power? Trump has only got going and could cause as much trouble
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 26, 2017, 07:41:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.


Well said
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 07:50:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.
His climate policy would justify it. Say what you like about the Nazis but they never destroyed the conditions that make life possible on the planet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 26, 2017, 08:36:46 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 07:27:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.

I hear you but would it have been a bad thing if Hitler had been assassinated when he took power? Trump has only got going and could cause as much trouble

f**k off you imbecile, Trump is no Hitler and you know it you f**king moron!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 26, 2017, 08:40:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 07:50:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.
His climate policy would justify it. Say what you like about the Nazis but they never destroyed the conditions that make life possible on the planet.

Well said seafoid, your heroes the Nazis experimented on women, killed 60 million people and tried to gas a people to death, by that least they weren't Trump, wise the f**k,up !
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: stew on January 26, 2017, 08:40:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 07:50:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.
His climate policy would justify it. Say what you like about the Nazis but they never destroyed the conditions that make life possible on the planet.

Well said seafoid, your heroes the Nazis experimented on women, killed 60 million people and tried to gas a people to death, by that least they weren't Trump, wise the f**k,up !
Wait until New York goes under, Stew.
Climate change is on a different level of evil
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 26, 2017, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: stew on January 26, 2017, 08:40:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 07:50:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.
His climate policy would justify it. Say what you like about the Nazis but they never destroyed the conditions that make life possible on the planet.

Well said seafoid, your heroes the Nazis experimented on women, killed 60 million people and tried to gas a people to death, by that least they weren't Trump, wise the f**k,up !
Wait until New York goes under, Stew.
Climate change is on a different level of evil
You could be waiting a wile seafoid, besides if and when it does the people will have long moved out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2017, 09:08:07 PM
My hole is sickened listening to all the report about the Women's March last Saturday.  Well how about this for an "alternate fact"......53% of all women voted for Trump! 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 26, 2017, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 09:08:07 PM
My hole is sickened listening to all the report about the Women's March last Saturday.  Well how about this for an "alternate fact"......53% of all women voted for Trump!

Where did you get that from? Since Clinton got 48% of vote to Trumps 46%? Presuming there was an equal split in gender of all votes that means only 39% of men voted for Trump.

Should have been a Men's March
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 26, 2017, 10:20:56 PM
A registry on Muslim visitors to the US, sounds like some other lad 75 odd years back  who put the star of David badge on Jewish people. How people voted for this cretin!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 26, 2017, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 26, 2017, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 09:08:07 PM
53% of all women voted for Trump!

Where did you get that from?

The clue is in his username.

53% of white women voted for Trump. The rest must not matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 10:33:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2017, 09:08:07 PM
My hole is sickened listening to all the report about the Women's March last Saturday.  Well how about this for an "alternate fact"......53% of all women voted for Trump!

Not according to Pew:

(http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/11/09125520/FT_16.11.09_exitPolls_gender.png)

What source are you referencing?

As Joe points out, your stat throws the male vote over to Hillary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2017, 10:49:14 PM
Apparently that lowlife Bannon was giving it loads to the press today about getting their predictions on the election wrong, saying they should all be fired and they're braindead and all the rest.

Which made one wonder how Breitbart, of which he was then boss, did in their 2012 predictions:

Eight Reasons Polls Showing Obama Winning Are Dead Wrong
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/11/01/eight-reasons-pro-obama-polls-are-wrong/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/11/01/eight-reasons-pro-obama-polls-are-wrong/)

The Polls Were Right, We Were Wrong, and That's the Good News
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/11/08/polls-right-we-wrong/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/11/08/polls-right-we-wrong/)

That's just two of the first links to come up in google. I'm sure there's tonnes more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 26, 2017, 10:52:06 PM
The average of the final polls showed Clinton with a 3.2% lead. In the election she had a 2.1% lead

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2017, 10:54:53 PM
Quote from: dec on January 26, 2017, 10:52:06 PM
The average of the final polls showed Clinton with a 3.2% lead. In the election she had a 2.1% lead

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

But was pouted out here a million times national polls are irrelevant because the election is decided in the swing states
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: longballin on January 26, 2017, 11:08:44 PM
Quote from: stew on January 26, 2017, 08:36:46 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 07:27:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.

I hear you but would it have been a bad thing if Hitler had been assassinated when he took power? Trump has only got going and could cause as much trouble

f**k off you imbecile, Trump is no Hitler and you know it you f**king moron!

what an outburst  :) and you tell me not to advocate violence against Trump you angry pathetic little Trumpite... like many of the Irish right wingnuts in the U$ of A.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 12:18:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Yes. Brace yourself for the backlash. You people can hang on to power with your voter suppression and gerrymandering, but that crap doesn't last forever. Justice always prevails and good always overcomes evil. This sick conservative illness will pass and America will return to normal again. Even conservatives will have to come back to reality-based politics eventually. As Barry said, reality has a way of asserting itself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 12:22:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Anything to say on what?

That white people in the Democratic Party should shut up and let minorities speak and listen to what they have to say about their experiences with prejudice?

Aren't we being currently preached at about not listening to white working class people?

What else did you get on the "oppressed white people/ungrateful, lazy black people" mailing list this week?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 01:29:48 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 26, 2017, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: stew on January 26, 2017, 08:40:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2017, 07:50:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
am loathe to say this but the world needs another Lee Harvey Oswald right now.

Can't stand the man or his policies, but I don't think advocating assassination helps anyone or anything. If him, then some crackpot has perceived license to hit a liberal or Muslim politician or whatever and so on and on.

And if it did happen, there'd be war on the streets. His supporters tend to be better armed than his opposition too!

Saw on the news that some Secret Service agent pledged on Facebook NOT to take a bullet for him. As with above, if she gets away with that, then what's stopping an agent refuse to protect the next liberal president?

The process swings both ways. People need to get over it, do their job, and organize and oppose him democratically and get their own guy in next time.
His climate policy would justify it. Say what you like about the Nazis but they never destroyed the conditions that make life possible on the planet.

Well said seafoid, your heroes the Nazis experimented on women, killed 60 million people and tried to gas a people to death, by that least they weren't Trump, wise the f**k,up !
Wait until New York goes under, Stew.
Climate change is on a different level of evil
You could be waiting a wile seafoid, besides if and when it does the people will have long moved out.

Strangely or ironically enough, the areas of NYC most at risk from sea level rise (and the ones which are relying heavily on city investment and grants to combat the threat) are among the ones that voted most heavily for Trump.

(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/o5yfbjeS2jSJFvomyV4DeuePYMg=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7871345/02_dnainfo_trump_voters_map.jpg)

(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/eHnLpXA8GRc19uzkSs9CT0H_7jQ=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7871367/03_climate_central_surging_seas_edit.jpg)

http://ny.curbed.com/2017/1/26/14390694/donald-trump-new-york-climate-change-hurricane-sandy (http://ny.curbed.com/2017/1/26/14390694/donald-trump-new-york-climate-change-hurricane-sandy)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 27, 2017, 03:26:59 AM
Get out of here with your science and facts  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 27, 2017, 09:27:53 AM
Listening to Teresa May's speech this morning she sounds ready to bend over and give Trump what he wants.

I don't think she's his type though!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 27, 2017, 09:37:21 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2017, 09:27:53 AM
Listening to Teresa May's speech this morning she sounds ready to bend over and give Trump what he wants.

I don't think she's his type though!!!

Teresa's probably about a 2 and Trump only goes for women 7 or better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 27, 2017, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 27, 2017, 09:37:21 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2017, 09:27:53 AM
Listening to Teresa May's speech this morning she sounds ready to bend over and give Trump what he wants.

I don't think she's his type though!!!

Teresa's probably about a 2 and Trump only goes for women 7 or better.

As they would say around here "She's a wan... wan auld bastid"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 27, 2017, 12:32:17 PM
Eddie Bannon's stand up comedian half brother Steve who is in the Trump administration
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/steve-bannon-media-trump-fox
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 12:18:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Yes. Brace yourself for the backlash. You people can hang on to power with your voter suppression and gerrymandering, but that crap doesn't last forever. Justice always prevails and good always overcomes evil. This sick conservative illness will pass and America will return to normal again. Even conservatives will have to come back to reality-based politics eventually. As Barry said, reality has a way of asserting itself.

Backlash? I don't think so. Lots of noise being broadcast by MSM but very little substance. If Ashley Judd and Madonna are your spokesmen then god help the protesters! Shows sensible people what loons the Democrats are.
Finally the USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge. Rather than sit on his hands like Obama did for 8 years he's willing to get into cities like Chicago and clean it up. Lawbreakers will be punished and illegals deported. These evils must be stopped.

This sanctuary city nonsense has to go. Safehavens for criminals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 12:22:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Anything to say on what?

That white people in the Democratic Party should shut up and let minorities speak and listen to what they have to say about their experiences with prejudice?

Aren't we being currently preached at about not listening to white working class people?

What else did you get on the "oppressed white people/ungrateful, lazy black people" mailing list this week?

While I'm delighted to see the democrats imploding and the obama legacy being destroyed by President Trump it doesn't bode well for the US that they are still trading solely on race issues in an angry nasty way, just like they tried in the election. You would have to fear what they are capable if this new breed of crazy democrats ever get into power. They haven't learned their lesson from Hillary's defeat.

The message coming from the democrats is that under their leadership they want to silence sections of people. How that is democratic or right is anyone's guess. It won't attract working class back to vote for them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on January 27, 2017, 02:57:41 PM
Anyone have an opinion on Tulsi Gabbard and her recent trip?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2017, 03:08:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 12:22:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Anything to say on what?

That white people in the Democratic Party should shut up and let minorities speak and listen to what they have to say about their experiences with prejudice?

Aren't we being currently preached at about not listening to white working class people?

What else did you get on the "oppressed white people/ungrateful, lazy black people" mailing list this week?

While I'm delighted to see the democrats imploding and the obama legacy being destroyed by President Trump it doesn't bode well for the US that they are still trading solely on race issues in an angry nasty way, just like they tried in the election. You would have to fear what they are capable if the new breed of crazy democrats ever get into power. They haven't learned their lesson from Hillary's defeat.

The message coming from the democrats is that under their leadership they want to silence sections of people. How that is democratic or right is anyone's guess. It won't attract working class back to vote for them.

When you see the likes of Elizabeth Warren ranting on stage it's time to pack it in.  I have to laugh at some of these Democratic politicians....they would be the first on stage to greet Bill Clinton, yet have the audacity to lecture us about Trump.  Sen Warren was front and center when the Kennedy Center was opened a couple of years ago in Ted Kennedys honor......Ted fvckin Kennedy who left a young woman to drown after he drunkenly drove off a bridge while cheating on his wife.  People are finally seeing through the hypocrisy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:14:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 12:22:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Anything to say on what?

That white people in the Democratic Party should shut up and let minorities speak and listen to what they have to say about their experiences with prejudice?

Aren't we being currently preached at about not listening to white working class people?

What else did you get on the "oppressed white people/ungrateful, lazy black people" mailing list this week?

While I'm delighted to see the democrats imploding and the obama legacy being destroyed by President Trump it doesn't bode well for the US that they are still trading solely on race issues in an angry nasty way, just like they tried in the election. You would have to fear what they are capable if the new breed of crazy democrats ever get into power. They haven't learned their lesson from Hillary's defeat.

The message coming from the democrats is that under their leadership they want to silence sections of people. How that is democratic or right is anyone's guess. It won't attract working class back to vote for them.

Just because you make shit up doesn't mean its true.

The 53 seconds you posted was from a forum specifically about Black Lives Matter and racial issues.

Nothing was said about silencing sections of people beyond asking white Democrats to be quiet and take the time to listen to black people when they speak about the prejudice they experience.

What if she had said that the liberals from the northeast and west coast need to shut up and listen when Rust Belt working class whites talk about their problems?

Would you have a problem with her trying to "silence" a whole sectionsof people then?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 27, 2017, 03:15:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 12:18:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Yes. Brace yourself for the backlash. You people can hang on to power with your voter suppression and gerrymandering, but that crap doesn't last forever. Justice always prevails and good always overcomes evil. This sick conservative illness will pass and America will return to normal again. Even conservatives will have to come back to reality-based politics eventually. As Barry said, reality has a way of asserting itself.

Backlash? I don't think so. Lots of noise being broadcast by MSM but very little substance. If Ashley Judd and Madonna are your spokesmen then god help the protesters! Shows sensible people what loons the Democrats are.
Finally the USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge. Rather than sit on his hands like Obama did for 8 years he's willing to get into cities like Chicago and clean it up. Lawbreakers will be punished and illegals deported. These evils must be stopped.

This sanctuary city nonsense has to go. Safehavens for criminals.

So Republicans are now FOR more Government interference for citizens?? Make your mind up lads?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 12:18:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Yes. Brace yourself for the backlash. You people can hang on to power with your voter suppression and gerrymandering, but that crap doesn't last forever. Justice always prevails and good always overcomes evil. This sick conservative illness will pass and America will return to normal again. Even conservatives will have to come back to reality-based politics eventually. As Barry said, reality has a way of asserting itself.

Backlash? I don't think so. Lots of noise being broadcast by MSM but very little substance. If Ashley Judd and Madonna are your spokesmen then god help the protesters! Shows sensible people what loons the Democrats are.
Finally the USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge. Rather than sit on his hands like Obama did for 8 years he's willing to get into cities like Chicago and clean it up. Lawbreakers will be punished and illegals deported. These evils must be stopped.

This sanctuary city nonsense has to go. Safehavens for criminals.

You're a so full of shit its laughable!

1. What exactly is Trump going to do or can he do about Chicago? Ignore posse comitatus and send the army to invade?
2. Obama has deported more than two million people. Trump himself even acknowledged this in the debates.
3. Do you have any clue why sanctuary city rules exist and why Trump's hands are fairly tied when it comes to doing anything about it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:27:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 03:08:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 12:22:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Anything to say on what?

That white people in the Democratic Party should shut up and let minorities speak and listen to what they have to say about their experiences with prejudice?

Aren't we being currently preached at about not listening to white working class people?

What else did you get on the "oppressed white people/ungrateful, lazy black people" mailing list this week?

While I'm delighted to see the democrats imploding and the obama legacy being destroyed by President Trump it doesn't bode well for the US that they are still trading solely on race issues in an angry nasty way, just like they tried in the election. You would have to fear what they are capable if the new breed of crazy democrats ever get into power. They haven't learned their lesson from Hillary's defeat.

The message coming from the democrats is that under their leadership they want to silence sections of people. How that is democratic or right is anyone's guess. It won't attract working class back to vote for them.

When you see the likes of Elizabeth Warren ranting on stage it's time to pack it in.  I have to laugh at some of these Democratic politicians....they would be the first on stage to greet Bill Clinton, yet have the audacity to lecture us about Trump.  Sen Warren was front and center when the Kennedy Center was opened a couple of years ago in Ted Kennedys honor......Ted fvckin Kennedy who left a young woman to drown after he drunkenly drove off a bridge while cheating on his wife.  People are finally seeing through the hypocrisy

Yes, the "people" are seeing through the hypocrisy and voting for a serial cheater, chauvanist and self-proclaimed "pussy grabber" and the party that does not want to see woman get equal pay for equal work, insurance coverage for contraception, and wants the return of back-alley abortions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2017, 03:32:26 PM
Equal pay is another canard.....both Hillary and Obama paid their female employees less than their male employees.

They are right to be outraged by Trumps comments and actions as it relates to women....but why do they let similar or even worse behaviors slide when the perpetrator has a D after his name?

It completely kills any credibility they have
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2017, 03:36:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 12:18:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Yes. Brace yourself for the backlash. You people can hang on to power with your voter suppression and gerrymandering, but that crap doesn't last forever. Justice always prevails and good always overcomes evil. This sick conservative illness will pass and America will return to normal again. Even conservatives will have to come back to reality-based politics eventually. As Barry said, reality has a way of asserting itself.

Backlash? I don't think so. Lots of noise being broadcast by MSM but very little substance. If Ashley Judd and Madonna are your spokesmen then god help the protesters! Shows sensible people what loons the Democrats are.
Finally the USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge. Rather than sit on his hands like Obama did for 8 years he's willing to get into cities like Chicago and clean it up. Lawbreakers will be punished and illegals deported. These evils must be stopped.

This sanctuary city nonsense has to go. Safehavens for criminals.

You're a so full of shit its laughable!

1. What exactly is Trump going to do or can he do about Chicago? Ignore posse comitatus and send the army to invade?
2. Obama has deported more than two million people. Trump himself even acknowledged this in the debates.
3. Do you have any clue why sanctuary city rules exist and why Trump's hands are fairly tied when it comes to doing anything about it?

You know the whole "deporter in chief" mantra is BS right????

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story,amp.html


They just recategorized the removal of those caught within 100 miles of the border

"On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics."

"Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:36:21 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on January 27, 2017, 02:57:41 PM
Anyone have an opinion on Tulsi Gabbard and her recent trip?

Don't know much about it, but she would appear to have some questions to answer.

I can't imagine either Obama OR Trump would be too happy to see her going on a solo mission and meeting Assad.

Not qualified to critique her statements arising out of the trip on US involvement and the supposed strengthening of ISIS and Al Qaida.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 03:38:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:27:29 PM

Yes, the "people" are seeing through the hypocrisy and voting for a serial cheater, chauvanist and self-proclaimed "pussy grabber" and the party that does not want to see woman get equal pay for equal work, insurance coverage for contraception, and wants the return of back-alley abortions.

Are we talking about Bill Clinton?

Why should the taxpayer fork out for someone else's irresponsible behaviour or murder of babies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on January 27, 2017, 03:43:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:36:21 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on January 27, 2017, 02:57:41 PM
Anyone have an opinion on Tulsi Gabbard and her recent trip?

Don't know much about it, but she would appear to have some questions to answer.

I can't imagine either Obama OR Trump would be too happy to see her going on a solo mission and meeting Assad.

Not qualified to critique her statements arising out of the trip on US involvement and the supposed strengthening of ISIS and Al Qaida.
It all seems very strange on the face of it. An American senator heads off to a foreign country, and not just any foreign country. Was she invited? On what basis did she enter? How did she enter?

I like what she had to say but it just seems a little strange.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 03:36:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 12:18:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 26, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
Get ready for 8 years of Trump if this is the message from the democrats. Shut up?? No wonder they lost the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEhDeC3zxM

What next - you can't sit down on the bus because of your privilege? Good grief! And this woman wants to be the next chair of the DNC. She makes Donna Brazile seem reasonable!


Eamon & J70 - anything to say?

Yes. Brace yourself for the backlash. You people can hang on to power with your voter suppression and gerrymandering, but that crap doesn't last forever. Justice always prevails and good always overcomes evil. This sick conservative illness will pass and America will return to normal again. Even conservatives will have to come back to reality-based politics eventually. As Barry said, reality has a way of asserting itself.

Backlash? I don't think so. Lots of noise being broadcast by MSM but very little substance. If Ashley Judd and Madonna are your spokesmen then god help the protesters! Shows sensible people what loons the Democrats are.
Finally the USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge. Rather than sit on his hands like Obama did for 8 years he's willing to get into cities like Chicago and clean it up. Lawbreakers will be punished and illegals deported. These evils must be stopped.

This sanctuary city nonsense has to go. Safehavens for criminals.

You're a so full of shit its laughable!

1. What exactly is Trump going to do or can he do about Chicago? Ignore posse comitatus and send the army to invade?
2. Obama has deported more than two million people. Trump himself even acknowledged this in the debates.
3. Do you have any clue why sanctuary city rules exist and why Trump's hands are fairly tied when it comes to doing anything about it?

You know the whole "deporter in chief" mantra is BS right????

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story,amp.html


They just recategorized the removal of those caught within 100 miles of the border

"On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics."

"Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported"

Did he or did he not deport more than 2 million people? Does the strip within 100 miles of the border not count now as part of the US? Are these not the areas where illegal immigration hits home most? ::)

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.

Whatever way you count it, the idea that Obama "sat on his hands" on this issue is clearly bullshit.

But, just for you,  here's the breakdown from last year: almost quarter of a million were deported. 65K were caught in the interior and sent back, most of them criminals. 175K were caught around the border and sent back, 80K of them with criminal records.

If the border ones don't count, is almost 200 people every day captured and deported "away" from the border "sitting on ones hands"?

https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2016 (https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2016)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:53:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 03:38:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:27:29 PM

Yes, the "people" are seeing through the hypocrisy and voting for a serial cheater, chauvanist and self-proclaimed "pussy grabber" and the party that does not want to see woman get equal pay for equal work, insurance coverage for contraception, and wants the return of back-alley abortions.

Are we talking about Bill Clinton?

Why should the taxpayer fork out for someone else's irresponsible behaviour or murder of babies?

Where did I say the taxpayer should fork out for abortions or irresponsible behaviour?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2017, 03:57:06 PM
They changed the definition of deportation at the tail end of the Bush Administration.         

That's what your either missing or attempting to BS your way through because you think people are stupid

Put up the numbers side by side using both the old and new definitions of what a deportation is and the reality is much different to what you're painting

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:01:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 03:57:06 PM
They changed the definition of deportation at the tail end of the Bush Administration.         

That's what your either missing or attempting to BS your way through because you think people are stupid

Put up the numbers side by side using both the old and new definitions of what a deportation is and the reality is much different to what you're painting

Not bullshitting at all.

Foxcommander made a claim. I refuted it. If you've got your knickers in a twist because Obama clearly WAS deporting people and patrolling the border area, in contradiction of what the likes of Foxcommander says, that's your problem.

If you think Obama wasn't doing enough or that Bush did better, you are free to make that argument.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2017, 04:07:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:01:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 03:57:06 PM
They changed the definition of deportation at the tail end of the Bush Administration.         

That's what your either missing or attempting to BS your way through because you think people are stupid

Put up the numbers side by side using both the old and new definitions of what a deportation is and the reality is much different to what you're painting

Not bullshitting at all.

Foxcommander made a claim. I refuted it. If you've got your knickers in a twist because Obama clearly WAS deporting people and patrolling the border area, in contradiction of what the likes of Foxcommander says, that's your problem.

If you think Obama wasn't doing enough or that Bush did better, you are free to make that argument.

Keep it up....

And for the record....I'm not for mass deportations....just deportations of criminals.  If we reaped the benefit of cheap labor by turning a blind eye to what was happening at the border....shame on us.  But as we know, there's no thing as a free lunch and the bill has just come due
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Tell cops what they know? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:13:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 04:07:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:01:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 03:57:06 PM
They changed the definition of deportation at the tail end of the Bush Administration.         

That's what your either missing or attempting to BS your way through because you think people are stupid

Put up the numbers side by side using both the old and new definitions of what a deportation is and the reality is much different to what you're painting

Not bullshitting at all.

Foxcommander made a claim. I refuted it. If you've got your knickers in a twist because Obama clearly WAS deporting people and patrolling the border area, in contradiction of what the likes of Foxcommander says, that's your problem.

If you think Obama wasn't doing enough or that Bush did better, you are free to make that argument.

Keep it up....

And for the record....I'm not for mass deportations....just deportations of criminals.  If we reaped the benefit of cheap labor by turning a blind eye to what was happening at the border....shame on us.  But as we know, there's no thing as a free lunch and the bill has just come due

Keep WHAT up?

Its like you're being picking an argument for the sake of it.

I'm for deportation of criminals too. Obama deported 140K of them last year. That's nearly 400/day (or 200/day if you discount the border strip  ;)).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.

You said immigrant communities - not illegal immigrant communities. I'm able to make a distinction, you in your blind rage can not.

I see you making a case for justice to be served in the thread about the drink driver but on this thread you advocate lawbreaking by illegal immigrants.

The hypocrisy!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.

You said immigrant communities - not illegal immigrant communities. I'm able to make a distinction, you in your blind rage can not.

I see you making a case for justice to be served in the thread about the drink driver but on this thread you advocate lawbreaking by illegal immigrants.

The hypocrisy!


I said "Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? "

Why the hell would I mention them being handed over for deportation if they were NOT illegal? The whole issue of sanctuary cities and the reason for their existence concerns illegal immigrants.

Now, are you going to address the point or are you going to continue dancing around and stalling?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:37:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.

You said immigrant communities - not illegal immigrant communities. I'm able to make a distinction, you in your blind rage can not.

I see you making a case for justice to be served in the thread about the drink driver but on this thread you advocate lawbreaking by illegal immigrants.

The hypocrisy!

Where have I advocated law breaking by illegal immigrants?

I haven't advocated ANYTHING.

I'm asking you what happens to the reporting of and investigations by the authorities of criminal activity if sanctuary city policies are ended, something you seem to under the impression is about to happen and which you are celebrating.

So once again, please answer the question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.

You said immigrant communities - not illegal immigrant communities. I'm able to make a distinction, you in your blind rage can not.

I see you making a case for justice to be served in the thread about the drink driver but on this thread you advocate lawbreaking by illegal immigrants.

The hypocrisy!


I said "Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? "

Why the hell would I mention them being handed over for deportation if they were NOT illegal? The whole issue of sanctuary cities and the reason for their existence concerns illegal immigrants.

Now, are you going to address the point or are you going to continue dancing around and stalling?

How about reading over what you write before posting then. You mentioned immigrants (not illegal immigrants). Not my job to fill in the blanks for you.

I answered your question already - there should be no safe haven for illegals. Arrest and deport. I can't be any clearer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.

You said immigrant communities - not illegal immigrant communities. I'm able to make a distinction, you in your blind rage can not.

I see you making a case for justice to be served in the thread about the drink driver but on this thread you advocate lawbreaking by illegal immigrants.

The hypocrisy!


I said "Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? "

Why the hell would I mention them being handed over for deportation if they were NOT illegal? The whole issue of sanctuary cities and the reason for their existence concerns illegal immigrants.

Now, are you going to address the point or are you going to continue dancing around and stalling?

How about reading over what you write before posting then. You mentioned immigrants (not illegal immigrants). Not my job to fill in the blanks for you.

I answered your question already - there should be no safe haven for illegals. Arrest and deport. I can't be any clearer.

Sorry, I figured you were smart enough to understand that a discussion of sanctuary city issues, by definition, concerns illegal immigrants, even if one didn't speak about "fear of deportation".

I'll not make such a mistake again.

That aside, so you're saying "f**k the illegals, its not my problem if they're afraid of the police and DA."

One would assume that you're happy that (a) crime will go unreported; (b) police and DAs will not receive any cooperation from witnesses who are illegal; (c) criminals who are illegal will have less to fear from their neighbours because they know they won't talk or go to the police out of fear of being deported; (d) children of illegals will live in less safe homes and communities; (e) everyone around will live in less safe homes and communities because these illegal criminals have less chance of being caught or convicted and deported themselves without the cooperation of their communities.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2017, 06:11:38 PM
J70.....Democrats again have brought this on themselves

By NOT turning over violent repeat offenders to ICE, they have put Political Correctness above the safety and security of their own citizens. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 06:20:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.

You said immigrant communities - not illegal immigrant communities. I'm able to make a distinction, you in your blind rage can not.

I see you making a case for justice to be served in the thread about the drink driver but on this thread you advocate lawbreaking by illegal immigrants.

The hypocrisy!


I said "Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? "

Why the hell would I mention them being handed over for deportation if they were NOT illegal? The whole issue of sanctuary cities and the reason for their existence concerns illegal immigrants.

Now, are you going to address the point or are you going to continue dancing around and stalling?

How about reading over what you write before posting then. You mentioned immigrants (not illegal immigrants). Not my job to fill in the blanks for you.

I answered your question already - there should be no safe haven for illegals. Arrest and deport. I can't be any clearer.

Sorry, I figured you were smart enough to understand that a discussion of sanctuary city issues, by definition, concerns illegal immigrants, even if one didn't speak about "fear of deportation".

I'll not make such a mistake again.

That aside, so you're saying "f**k the illegals, its not my problem if they're afraid of the police and DA."

One would assume that you're happy that (a) crime will go unreported; (b) police and DAs will not receive any cooperation from witnesses who are illegal; (c) criminals who are illegal will have less to fear from their neighbours because they know they won't talk or go to the police out of fear of being deported; (d) children of illegals will live in less safe homes and communities; (e) everyone around will live in less safe homes and communities because these illegal criminals have less chance of being caught or convicted and deported themselves without the cooperation of their communities.

The problem of illegals shouldn't exist in the first place. Isn't that what laws are for?
Instead now you think the authorities have to pussyfoot around as not to upset liberals.
President Trump hopefully can sort it out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 06:22:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 06:11:38 PM
J70.....Democrats again have brought this on themselves

By NOT turning over violent repeat offenders to ICE, they have put Political Correctness above the safety and security of their own citizens.

Different argument.

But assuming that is true and some politicians and/or cities take it too far, does that negate the rationale behind having them in the first place?

Because surely you can have sanctuary city policies and still hand over convicts for deportation at the end of their sentence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 06:29:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 06:20:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.

You said immigrant communities - not illegal immigrant communities. I'm able to make a distinction, you in your blind rage can not.

I see you making a case for justice to be served in the thread about the drink driver but on this thread you advocate lawbreaking by illegal immigrants.

The hypocrisy!


I said "Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? "

Why the hell would I mention them being handed over for deportation if they were NOT illegal? The whole issue of sanctuary cities and the reason for their existence concerns illegal immigrants.

Now, are you going to address the point or are you going to continue dancing around and stalling?

How about reading over what you write before posting then. You mentioned immigrants (not illegal immigrants). Not my job to fill in the blanks for you.

I answered your question already - there should be no safe haven for illegals. Arrest and deport. I can't be any clearer.

Sorry, I figured you were smart enough to understand that a discussion of sanctuary city issues, by definition, concerns illegal immigrants, even if one didn't speak about "fear of deportation".

I'll not make such a mistake again.

That aside, so you're saying "f**k the illegals, its not my problem if they're afraid of the police and DA."

One would assume that you're happy that (a) crime will go unreported; (b) police and DAs will not receive any cooperation from witnesses who are illegal; (c) criminals who are illegal will have less to fear from their neighbours because they know they won't talk or go to the police out of fear of being deported; (d) children of illegals will live in less safe homes and communities; (e) everyone around will live in less safe homes and communities because these illegal criminals have less chance of being caught or convicted and deported themselves without the cooperation of their communities.

The problem of illegals shouldn't exist in the first place. Isn't that what laws are for?
Instead now you think the authorities have to pussyfoot around as not to upset liberals.
President Trump hopefully can sort it out.

1. Illegal immigration will always exist. Half of them enter the country legally and overstay their visas. Short of forming a massive federal police force to go around checking everyone's papers and chasing every last person who hasn't left when they're supposed to, there's not much that can be done. Saying it shouldn't exist is fine, but of absolutely no use in reality. No more than having laws against speeding means that the problem of people driving too fast will cease to exist. There's only so much law enforcement a community/government can do in a free democracy.
2. What has "pussyfooting around and upsetting liberals" got to do with anything? This is about pubic safety and having a section of the community not being afraid to engage with law enforcement.
3. He'll try to pull federal funds, the cities will tell him to go f**k himself, and it will end up in court for years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 27, 2017, 06:37:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 06:29:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 06:20:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.

You said immigrant communities - not illegal immigrant communities. I'm able to make a distinction, you in your blind rage can not.

I see you making a case for justice to be served in the thread about the drink driver but on this thread you advocate lawbreaking by illegal immigrants.

The hypocrisy!


I said "Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? "

Why the hell would I mention them being handed over for deportation if they were NOT illegal? The whole issue of sanctuary cities and the reason for their existence concerns illegal immigrants.

Now, are you going to address the point or are you going to continue dancing around and stalling?

How about reading over what you write before posting then. You mentioned immigrants (not illegal immigrants). Not my job to fill in the blanks for you.

I answered your question already - there should be no safe haven for illegals. Arrest and deport. I can't be any clearer.

Sorry, I figured you were smart enough to understand that a discussion of sanctuary city issues, by definition, concerns illegal immigrants, even if one didn't speak about "fear of deportation".

I'll not make such a mistake again.

That aside, so you're saying "f**k the illegals, its not my problem if they're afraid of the police and DA."

One would assume that you're happy that (a) crime will go unreported; (b) police and DAs will not receive any cooperation from witnesses who are illegal; (c) criminals who are illegal will have less to fear from their neighbours because they know they won't talk or go to the police out of fear of being deported; (d) children of illegals will live in less safe homes and communities; (e) everyone around will live in less safe homes and communities because these illegal criminals have less chance of being caught or convicted and deported themselves without the cooperation of their communities.

The problem of illegals shouldn't exist in the first place. Isn't that what laws are for?
Instead now you think the authorities have to pussyfoot around as not to upset liberals.
President Trump hopefully can sort it out.

1. Illegal immigration will always exist. Half of them enter the country legally and overstay their visas. Short of forming a massive federal police force to go around checking everyone's papers and chasing every last person who hasn't left when they're supposed to, there's not much that can be done. Saying it shouldn't exist is fine, but of absolutely no use in reality. No more than having laws against speeding means that the problem of people driving too fast will cease to exist. There's only so much law enforcement a community/government can do in a free democracy.
2. What has "pussyfooting around and upsetting liberals" got to do with anything? This is about pubic safety and having a section of the community not being afraid to engage with law enforcement.
3. He'll try to pull federal funds, the cities will tell him to go f**k himself, and it will end up in court for years.

What about public safety for the legitimate citizens?  If they are illegal kick them to f**k out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 27, 2017, 06:43:33 PM
Most people in the United States are descended from illegal immigrants.
The Indigenous inhabitants never gave them permission to invade and steal most of their land.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 06:44:45 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 27, 2017, 06:37:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 06:29:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 06:20:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 03:51:06 PM

Foxcommander is juicing himself at the thought that finally the "USA is going to get justice with President Trump leading the charge", with the deportation of illegals part of the apparent abrupt change in policy.


You're not wrong there. Taking America back for it's legal citizens. Taking criminals off the streets. Passing Kate's Law to stop illegals returning. Abolishing sanctuary cities.
For some mental reason Democrats are opposed to this?

The Prez is doing a bang up job so far with his executive orders. Batting it out of the park.

So lets say sanctuary city policies are abolished (again, quite how Trump or Congress can dictate what is a local/state issue, you'll have to explain).

What do you think that is going to do for people in immigrant communities?

Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? Do you think they'll report crime? Report threats to their kids and neighbourhoods?

What do you think that is going to do for the criminal investigation abilities of the authorities?

If they are legal why wouldn't they go to the authorities? Not sure of your reasoning here.

Seriously??

All right, I'll play along.

What are sanctuary cities and why do they need to be abolished?
I'll play along too

A sanctuary city is a city that has adopted a policy of protecting undocumented immigrants by not prosecuting them for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. i.e. Harbouring illegals and criminals.

What part of illegal don't you get?

Ok, so now that you can stop playing ignorant, please respond to my previous post about the reporting and investigation of crimes in the neighbourhoods where illegals live.

You said immigrant communities - not illegal immigrant communities. I'm able to make a distinction, you in your blind rage can not.

I see you making a case for justice to be served in the thread about the drink driver but on this thread you advocate lawbreaking by illegal immigrants.

The hypocrisy!


I said "Do you think they'll go to the cops with their problems when they know they run the risk of being handed over to the feds for deportation? "

Why the hell would I mention them being handed over for deportation if they were NOT illegal? The whole issue of sanctuary cities and the reason for their existence concerns illegal immigrants.

Now, are you going to address the point or are you going to continue dancing around and stalling?

How about reading over what you write before posting then. You mentioned immigrants (not illegal immigrants). Not my job to fill in the blanks for you.

I answered your question already - there should be no safe haven for illegals. Arrest and deport. I can't be any clearer.

Sorry, I figured you were smart enough to understand that a discussion of sanctuary city issues, by definition, concerns illegal immigrants, even if one didn't speak about "fear of deportation".

I'll not make such a mistake again.

That aside, so you're saying "f**k the illegals, its not my problem if they're afraid of the police and DA."

One would assume that you're happy that (a) crime will go unreported; (b) police and DAs will not receive any cooperation from witnesses who are illegal; (c) criminals who are illegal will have less to fear from their neighbours because they know they won't talk or go to the police out of fear of being deported; (d) children of illegals will live in less safe homes and communities; (e) everyone around will live in less safe homes and communities because these illegal criminals have less chance of being caught or convicted and deported themselves without the cooperation of their communities.

The problem of illegals shouldn't exist in the first place. Isn't that what laws are for?
Instead now you think the authorities have to pussyfoot around as not to upset liberals.
President Trump hopefully can sort it out.

1. Illegal immigration will always exist. Half of them enter the country legally and overstay their visas. Short of forming a massive federal police force to go around checking everyone's papers and chasing every last person who hasn't left when they're supposed to, there's not much that can be done. Saying it shouldn't exist is fine, but of absolutely no use in reality. No more than having laws against speeding means that the problem of people driving too fast will cease to exist. There's only so much law enforcement a community/government can do in a free democracy.
2. What has "pussyfooting around and upsetting liberals" got to do with anything? This is about pubic safety and having a section of the community not being afraid to engage with law enforcement.
3. He'll try to pull federal funds, the cities will tell him to go f**k himself, and it will end up in court for years.

What about public safety for the legitimate citizens?  If they are illegal kick them to f**k out.

You don't think the public safety of citizens and legal immigrants is also served by encouraging illegals to report crime and cooperate with the authorities as witnesses without fear of deportation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:03:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 06:29:59 PM

2. What has "pussyfooting around and upsetting liberals" got to do with anything? This is about pubic safety and having a section of the community not being afraid to engage with law enforcement.


Tell that to this poor woman's parents. Keep the sanctuary cities to save the likes of him? People like yourself J70 may have good intentions but you get the piss ripped out of you for doing so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:03:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 06:29:59 PM

2. What has "pussyfooting around and upsetting liberals" got to do with anything? This is about pubic safety and having a section of the community not being afraid to engage with law enforcement.


Tell that to this poor woman's parents. Keep the sanctuary cities to save the likes of him? People like yourself J70 may have good intentions but you get the piss ripped out of you for doing so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle

1. I have no problem with something like that Kate's Law which would prescribe prison sentences for convicted felons who return after being deported.

2. This case doesn't prove anything beyond that maybe San Francisco have taken it too far in not cooperating with a standing request to hold someone for deportation. Its certainly not an indictment of the entire concept of sanctuary cities. Encouraging engagement of illegals with the police and legal authorities is one thing; refusing to cooperate with the feds in deporting a known felon who is in custody and who has been deported multiple times is completely different.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:06:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2017, 06:43:33 PM
Most people in the United States are descended from illegal immigrants.
The Indigenous inhabitants never gave them permission to invade and steal most of their land.

That does not work, not at all.

Given that the USA is a nation and that the local people live within their own nations and have accepted the United States, you should live sitting the laws of the United States, you are simply trying and failing to justify illegal aliens living,in a country that they have no right to do so!

I hope Trump hammers sanctuary cities as promised, if the arseholes that run them break the law they should go to jail, simple as that.

I do not want 11 million people to get deported, I do want them to apply for and get permanent status as long as they have behaved themselves, I then want not one more illegal alien ever to enter the country, but that's just me!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 27, 2017, 08:19:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:06:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2017, 06:43:33 PM
Most people in the United States are descended from illegal immigrants.
The Indigenous inhabitants never gave them permission to invade and steal most of their land.

That does not work, not at all.

Given that the USA is a nation and that the local people live within their own nations and have accepted the United States, you should live sitting the laws of the United States, you are simply trying and failing to justify illegal aliens living,in a country that they have no right to do so!

I hope Trump hammers sanctuary cities as promised, if the arseholes that run them break the law they should go to jail, simple as that.

I do not want 11 million people to get deported, I do want them to apply for and get permanent status as long as they have behaved themselves, I then want not one more illegal alien ever to enter the country, but that's just me!
Some of the lads on the board are probably illegal, Sttew
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 08:24:15 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:06:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2017, 06:43:33 PM
Most people in the United States are descended from illegal immigrants.
The Indigenous inhabitants never gave them permission to invade and steal most of their land.

That does not work, not at all.

Given that the USA is a nation and that the local people live within their own nations and have accepted the United States, you should live sitting the laws of the United States, you are simply trying and failing to justify illegal aliens living,in a country that they have no right to do so!

I hope Trump hammers sanctuary cities as promised, if the arseholes that run them break the law they should go to jail, simple as that.

I do not want 11 million people to get deported, I do want them to apply for and get permanent status as long as they have behaved themselves, I then want not one more illegal alien ever to enter the country, but that's just me!

Break WHAT law? Cities don't enforce immigration laws. The Feds do.

And how is Trump going to hammer them?

Obama tried to pull Medicaid funding a few years back for states that refused to expand Medicaid under Obamacare. It was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. How is this any different?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:26:29 PM
Trump is still learning the limits of presidential power. The clown hasn't a clue what he's doing. If he did he'd know that previous efforts to force the hand of local government with "gun to the head" threats to withdraw federal funding were thrown out of court as illegal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2017, 08:27:15 PM
We'll then I guess they have nothing to worry about.....

Those Mayors must have just held those meetings and press conferences because they had nothing better for doing. (And he CAN withhold funding)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:33:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 08:27:15 PM
(And he CAN withhold funding)

No he cannot. Unless he wants to declare that he doesn't recognize the authority of the courts. And I wouldn't put that past him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:03:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 06:29:59 PM

2. What has "pussyfooting around and upsetting liberals" got to do with anything? This is about pubic safety and having a section of the community not being afraid to engage with law enforcement.


Tell that to this poor woman's parents. Keep the sanctuary cities to save the likes of him? People like yourself J70 may have good intentions but you get the piss ripped out of you for doing so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle

Legal immigrants commit crime in the USA.

Tourists commit crime in the USA.

Going by your logic, all legal immigration and all tourism in the USA should be stopped immediately, because it increases the absolute number of crimes committed there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2017, 08:42:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 08:27:15 PM
We'll then I guess they have nothing to worry about.....

Those Mayors must have just held those meetings and press conferences because they had nothing better for doing. (And he CAN withhold funding)

I don't doubt for a second he will try and they will see him in court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2017, 08:24:15 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:06:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2017, 06:43:33 PM
Most people in the United States are descended from illegal immigrants.
The Indigenous inhabitants never gave them permission to invade and steal most of their land.

That does not work, not at all.

Given that the USA is a nation and that the local people live within their own nations and have accepted the United States, you should live sitting the laws of the United States, you are simply trying and failing to justify illegal aliens living,in a country that they have no right to do so!

I hope Trump hammers sanctuary cities as promised, if the arseholes that run them break the law they should go to jail, simple as that.

I do not want 11 million people to get deported, I do want them to apply for and get permanent status as long as they have behaved themselves, I then want not one more illegal alien ever to enter the country, but that's just me!

Break WHAT law? Cities don't enforce immigration laws. The Feds do.

And how is Trump going to hammer them?

Obama tried to pull Medicaid funding a few years back for states that refused to expand Medicaid under Obamacare. It was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. How is this any different?

The law will be changed at the federal level, wait and see if it's not, when it is changed those who refuse to enforce it will be locked up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:54:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 27, 2017, 08:19:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:06:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2017, 06:43:33 PM
Most people in the United States are descended from illegal immigrants.
The Indigenous inhabitants never gave them permission to invade and steal most of their land.

That does not work, not at all.

Given that the USA is a nation and that the local people live within their own nations and have accepted the United States, you should live sitting the laws of the United States, you are simply trying and failing to justify illegal aliens living,in a country that they have no right to do so!

I hope Trump hammers sanctuary cities as promised, if the arseholes that run them break the law they should go to jail, simple as that.

I do not want 11 million people to get deported, I do want them to apply for and get permanent status as long as they have behaved themselves, I then want not one more illegal alien ever to enter the country, but that's just me!
Some of the lads on the board are probably illegal, Sttew


I know they are, what has that got to do with anything? They shouldn't be there in my opinion, my two siblings should not have been there, just because you have loved ones doing it does not make it right in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:57:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

What part of illegal immigrants don't you get??
They are in a country they had no right to be in, there's a fact for you!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2017, 09:06:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:33:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 08:27:15 PM
(And he CAN withhold funding)

No he cannot. Unless he wants to declare that he doesn't recognize the authority of the courts. And I wouldn't put that past him.

They have nothing to worry about then....they should just ignore him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 27, 2017, 09:09:44 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:57:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

What part of illegal immigrants don't you get??
They are in a country they had no right to be in, there's a fact for you!

Or do what they want without repercussion as they don't exist on any database.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:45:57 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:54:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 27, 2017, 08:19:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 08:06:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2017, 06:43:33 PM
Most people in the United States are descended from illegal immigrants.
The Indigenous inhabitants never gave them permission to invade and steal most of their land.

That does not work, not at all.

Given that the USA is a nation and that the local people live within their own nations and have accepted the United States, you should live sitting the laws of the United States, you are simply trying and failing to justify illegal aliens living,in a country that they have no right to do so!

I hope Trump hammers sanctuary cities as promised, if the arseholes that run them break the law they should go to jail, simple as that.

I do not want 11 million people to get deported, I do want them to apply for and get permanent status as long as they have behaved themselves, I then want not one more illegal alien ever to enter the country, but that's just me!
Some of the lads on the board are probably illegal, Sttew


I know they are, what has that got to do with anything? They shouldn't be there in my opinion, my two siblings should not have been there, just because you have loved ones doing it does not make it right in my opinion.

We probably all know people who have done it. I don't think it's right, same in any country including Ireland. If you have no legal right to be somewhere then should be turfed out. People who decide not to play by the rules screw it up for those who do and it leads to general lawlessness.

I bet you're one of those lads who parks his car (Toyota Prius) over 2 spots eamon ;)



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 09:49:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

There would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country?

Really?  ;D

Who knew that illegal immigrants committed 100% of all crimes?  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:41:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

Learn to read then mate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2017, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

And this is exactly the type of nonsense you hear from Democrats.....keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:52:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

And this is exactly the type of nonsense you hear from Democrats.....keep it up

logic not a strong point indeed. lol
no wonder they lost the election. Christ they're sore about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:41:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

Learn to read then mate.

Ah, a complete non-answer!

And a really shit attempt at a put down!

I'll take that as an admission of you now realising your "point" about crime is a nonsense, so.

Can I get your take on the case of Stew's two illegal immigrant brothers?

Should he have grassed them up to the police?

If he didn't, wouldn't that mean he facilitated their "criminal" activities? Them of course being criminals according to your criteria for criminality, ie. merely by being in the US in the first place?

If it's the latter, surely Stew is an accessory to crime, and should thus be deported along with yourself, who, remember, would be deported because some illegal immigrants committed a crime, and lowering crime is what it's all about, right?

What's your view?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 11:01:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:52:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2017, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

And this is exactly the type of nonsense you hear from Democrats.....keep it up

logic not a strong point indeed. lol
no wonder they lost the election. Christ they're sore about it.

Oh, it's perfectly logical, mate. You just need to read it, which you've already been quite categorical a few posts back that you have the ability to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 27, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

f**k off Sid.
You know he didn't mean that, illegal anything means it is against the law, you support law breaking,you are part of the problem Sir.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 11:22:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

f**k off Sid.
You know he didn't mean that, illegal anything means it is against the law, you support law breaking,you are part of the problem Sir.
Did you grass your brothers up to the police?

If not, you were an accessory to law breaking. And thus would be part of the problem, according to none other than yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 28, 2017, 12:55:32 AM
Well said Sid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2017, 04:01:56 AM
http://www.msnbc.com/mtp-daily/watch/ag-becerra-i-will-find-ways-to-stop-trump-s-wall-864449091541

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBAkOifDeSw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2017, 08:14:15 AM
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/10/who-will-win/497561/

In many ways the performances of Donald Trump remind me of male chimpanzees and their dominance rituals," Jane Goodall, the anthropologist, told me shortly before Trump won the GOP nomination. "In order to impress rivals, males seeking to rise in the dominance hierarchy perform spectacular displays: stamping, slapping the ground, dragging branches, throwing rocks. The more vigorous and imaginative the display, the faster the individual is likely to rise in the hierarchy, and the longer he is likely to maintain that position."
In her book My Life With the Chimpanzees, Goodall told the story of "Mike," a chimp who maintained his dominance by kicking a series of kerosene cans ahead of him as he moved down a road, creating confusion and noise that made his rivals flee and cower. She told me she would be thinking of Mike as she watched the upcoming debates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 28, 2017, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2017, 12:55:32 AM
Well said Sid.

Luck his hole a wee bit more to the right, you missed a spot!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 28, 2017, 10:59:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 11:22:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

f**k off Sid.
You know he didn't mean that, illegal anything means it is against the law, you support law breaking,you are part of the problem Sir.
Did you grass your brothers up to the police?

If not, you were an accessory to law breaking. And thus would be part of the problem, according to none other than yourself.

Eh I lived in Ireland when they were there, and it was the sisters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 28, 2017, 11:19:17 AM
Quote from: stew on January 28, 2017, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2017, 12:55:32 AM
Well said Sid.

Luck his hole a wee bit more to the right, you missed a spot!

  ;D he is a bit busy preparing PR litetature for his visit to Tyrone as no one up here understands it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on January 28, 2017, 12:21:09 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38781420 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38781420)

listen to this and tell me if this is a man of high intellect and great knowledge? He hides it well
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on January 28, 2017, 02:55:36 PM
Why has he not barred Saudi Arabians? Did citizens of that country not commit the worst atrocity on US soil..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2017, 03:22:25 PM
Quote from: glens73 on January 28, 2017, 02:55:36 PM
Why has he not barred Saudi Arabians? Did citizens of that country not commit the worst atrocity on US soil..
Saudi is untouchable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: stew on January 28, 2017, 10:59:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 11:22:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

f**k off Sid.
You know he didn't mean that, illegal anything means it is against the law, you support law breaking,you are part of the problem Sir.
Did you grass your brothers up to the police?

If not, you were an accessory to law breaking. And thus would be part of the problem, according to none other than yourself.

Eh I lived in Ireland when they were there, and it was the sisters.
That's still knowledge of "criminal activity". According to your good friend FoxKommander you really should have informed on your sisters while you were still at home in Armagh or wherever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 04:05:38 PM
Just for the record and to clarify the numbnuts "illegal immigrants are committing a crime brigade"  on here.

A crime (misdemeanor offense until it's a repeat offender situation when it becomes a felony charge)
Is only applicable to a person in the USA who illegally entered the country, or made an effort to avoid US border and custom patrols

The act of being in the USA unlawfully is NOT a crime, it is an offence that is charged with civil penalties, and that person is not charged with a crime. Anyone who has entered legally but remained past the date of any kind of visa for example - is not considered to have committed a crime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2017, 05:31:34 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 04:05:38 PM
Just for the record and to clarify the numbnuts "illegal immigrants are committing a crime brigade"  on here.

A crime (misdemeanor offense until it's a repeat offender situation when it becomes a felony charge)
Is only applicable to a person in the USA who illegally entered the country, or made an effort to avoid US border and custom patrols

The act of being in the USA unlawfully is NOT a crime, it is an offence that is charged with civil penalties, and that person is not charged with a crime. Anyone who has entered legally but remained past the date of any kind of visa for example - is not considered to have committed a crime.


Keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 28, 2017, 06:13:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 05:31:34 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 04:05:38 PM
Just for the record and to clarify the numbnuts "illegal immigrants are committing a crime brigade"  on here.

A crime (misdemeanor offense until it's a repeat offender situation when it becomes a felony charge)
Is only applicable to a person in the USA who illegally entered the country, or made an effort to avoid US border and custom patrols

The act of being in the USA unlawfully is NOT a crime, it is an offence that is charged with civil penalties, and that person is not charged with a crime. Anyone who has entered legally but remained past the date of any kind of visa for example - is not considered to have committed a crime.


Keep it up

Keep what uo?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2017, 06:26:16 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 28, 2017, 06:13:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 05:31:34 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 04:05:38 PM
Just for the record and to clarify the numbnuts "illegal immigrants are committing a crime brigade"  on here.

A crime (misdemeanor offense until it's a repeat offender situation when it becomes a felony charge)
Is only applicable to a person in the USA who illegally entered the country, or made an effort to avoid US border and custom patrols

The act of being in the USA unlawfully is NOT a crime, it is an offence that is charged with civil penalties, and that person is not charged with a crime. Anyone who has entered legally but remained past the date of any kind of visa for example - is not considered to have committed a crime.


Keep it up

Keep what uo?

Apparently defending one's position and not conceding to the doubtful logic and incoherence of those who voted in and support Trump is going to doom us to irrelevance for good.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 28, 2017, 06:32:11 PM
Was Puckoon factualy incorrect?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2017, 06:33:57 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 28, 2017, 06:32:11 PM
Was Puckoon factualy incorrect?

Don't think it matters if he was correct.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 28, 2017, 07:04:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: stew on January 28, 2017, 10:59:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 11:22:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

f**k off Sid.
You know he didn't mean that, illegal anything means it is against the law, you support law breaking,you are part of the problem Sir.
Did you grass your brothers up to the police?

If not, you were an accessory to law breaking. And thus would be part of the problem, according to none other than yourself.

Eh I lived in Ireland when they were there, and it was the sisters.
That's still knowledge of "criminal activity". According to your good friend FoxKommander you really should have informed on your sisters while you were still at home in Armagh or wherever.

Why would I take the time and spend my own money to do that?

I had never set foot in the States at the time they were there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2017, 08:31:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

How does any of that refute what Puckoon or any of us have been saying, most recently about sanctuary cities and illegal immigration?

If what we are saying is tripe, then prove it through debate and discussion and spare us the "keep it up" nonsense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 08:51:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

Yes. It was a youthful Arsenal team they had out today. What's for lunch?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 09:00:28 PM
Quote from: stew on January 28, 2017, 07:04:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: stew on January 28, 2017, 10:59:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 11:22:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 27, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2017, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Would there be any point in mentioning the fact that undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes because they prefer to keep their heads down and out of the way of any trouble? Or has fox and co joined the Donald over there in the parallel universe where facts and truth are no longer relevant?

They've already committed a crime by being in the country illegally. Or is that not a crime in your parallel universe Eamon?

Read my lips, you intellectually challenged conservative. Undocumented immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime. (Okay, "crime other than entering the country illegally. There. Happy now? Jesus Christ.) Less is the opposite of more. Am I getting through the force field or should I try again?

Oh so they HAVE committed a crime. You call me intellectually challenged?
Rather than LESS crime there would be 0 crimes if they weren't in the country. Which one is better? Let's see how clever you are.

LOL! ALL of the crime in the country is being committed by undocumented! HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one! You people have well and truly lost it. No wonder you elected the tangerine tweeter-in-chief!

Did I say all crimes? 0 crimes committed by illegal immigrants if they weren't in the country in the first place.
There's still plenty of other groups you love that like to do a bit of looting and shooting from time to time ;)
You said there would be 0 crimes if illegal immigrants weren't in the country.

You made yourself pretty clear.

If you didn't mean to say that, you shouldn't have so clearly written that. You should have written something else.

Now, you haven't yet answered this one, so please do.

If legal immigrants and tourists weren't in the country, there would be less crime. That's because both legal immigrants and tourists commit crimes.

So, given that you are touting crimes committed by some illegal immigrants as reasons to deport all illegal immigrants, aren't crimes committed by some legal immigrants and some tourists a black and white case to stop all legal immigration and all tourism?

Because if you stopped all legal immigration and all tourism, there would clearly be less crime, right?

And your whole point is the crime angle.

So thus, how can you support any legal immigration and any tourism when it clearly leads to a higher amount of crime?

Your whole "point", if you truly believe it, is a logical case to why you yourself should be deported.

f**k off Sid.
You know he didn't mean that, illegal anything means it is against the law, you support law breaking,you are part of the problem Sir.
Did you grass your brothers up to the police?

If not, you were an accessory to law breaking. And thus would be part of the problem, according to none other than yourself.

Eh I lived in Ireland when they were there, and it was the sisters.
That's still knowledge of "criminal activity". According to your good friend FoxKommander you really should have informed on your sisters while you were still at home in Armagh or wherever.

Why would I take the time and spend my own money to do that?

I had never set foot in the States at the time they were there.
I haven't a clue why you'd do that - certainly I wouldn't.

But you clearly think there's a "problem", and you said I was part of it, so clearly by your own standards you're also part of it, whatever that "problem" is.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2017, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2017, 08:31:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

How does any of that refute what Puckoon or any of us have been saying, most recently about sanctuary cities and illegal immigration?

If what we are saying is tripe, then prove it through debate and discussion and spare us the "keep it up" nonsense.

Keep it up

Trump is sure to be defeated in 2020 if what youre saying is correct

Democrats are guaranteed to do awesome in the 2018 Midterms and may even win back some governships.   Its worked so well, why would you ever think about changing tactics?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 09:17:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class
Yawn.

Here's some more nonsense right-wing cliches for you throw into your answers and wrongly think you're making an actual point.

Look on any forum or comment section and it's  rare you'll see a pro-Trump post not relying on at least one of the following pieces of tripe, and this forum is no exception.

"You just don't get it"
"SJWs"
"Snowflakes"
"Virtue signalling"
"Left-wing media"
"The tyranny of political correctness"
"PC brigade"
"Cultural Marxism"
"Liberal fascists"
"Liberal media"
"Liberal elite"
"Metropolitan elite"
"Trendy liberals"
"Real Americans"
"The people voted for Trump"
"Keep it up"
"Free speech"
"You take offence at everything"
"Shut up and get over it!"
"Clinton News Network"
"Liberal echo chamber"
"Liberal bubble"
"States' rights"
"Voter fraud"
"Climate change hoax"
"Biased liberal academia"
"Feminazis"
"Trigger warnings"
"Worst president ever"
"Draining the swamp"
"The Democrats are the party of slavery"
"Freedom haters"
"Nanny state"
"Small government"
"The magic of the market"
"Lock her up"
"B. Hussein Osama"




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2017, 09:49:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 09:17:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class
Yawn.

Here's some more nonsense right-wing cliches for you throw into your answers and wrongly think you're making an actual point.

Look on any forum or comment section and it's  rare you'll see a pro-Trump post not relying on at least one of the following pieces of tripe, and this forum is no exception.

"You just don't get it"
"SJWs"
"Snowflakes"
"Virtue signalling"
"Left-wing media"
"The tyranny of political correctness"
"PC brigade"
"Cultural Marxism"
"Liberal fascists"
"Liberal media"
"Liberal elite"
"Metropolitan elite"
"Trendy liberals"
"Real Americans"
"The people voted for Trump"
"Keep it up"
"Free speech"
"You take offence at everything"
"Shut up and get over it!"
"Clinton News Network"
"Liberal echo chamber"
"Liberal bubble"
"States' rights"
"Voter fraud"
"Climate change hoax"
"Biased liberal academia"
"Feminazis"
"Trigger warnings"
"Worst president ever"
"Draining the swamp"
"The Democrats are the party of slavery"
"Freedom haters"
"Nanny state"
"Small government"
"The magic of the market"
"Lock her up"
"B. Hussein Osama"

Keep her lit

If you guys are right....I expect Trump will get thumped in the 2018 Midterms and thrown out on his ar$e in 2020!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 09:49:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 09:17:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class
Yawn.

Here's some more nonsense right-wing cliches for you throw into your answers and wrongly think you're making an actual point.

Look on any forum or comment section and it's  rare you'll see a pro-Trump post not relying on at least one of the following pieces of tripe, and this forum is no exception.

"You just don't get it"
"SJWs"
"Snowflakes"
"Virtue signalling"
"Left-wing media"
"The tyranny of political correctness"
"PC brigade"
"Cultural Marxism"
"Liberal fascists"
"Liberal media"
"Liberal elite"
"Metropolitan elite"
"Trendy liberals"
"Real Americans"
"The people voted for Trump"
"Keep it up"
"Free speech"
"You take offence at everything"
"Shut up and get over it!"
"Clinton News Network"
"Liberal echo chamber"
"Liberal bubble"
"States' rights"
"Voter fraud"
"Climate change hoax"
"Biased liberal academia"
"Feminazis"
"Trigger warnings"
"Worst president ever"
"Draining the swamp"
"The Democrats are the party of slavery"
"Freedom haters"
"Nanny state"
"Small government"
"The magic of the market"
"Lock her up"
"B. Hussein Osama"

Keep her lit

If you guys are right....I expect Trump will get thumped in the 2018 Midterms and thrown out on his ar$e in 2020!

"Keep her lit".

Another spectacular, non-cliched insight from yourself.

Impossible to argue with somebody who's clearly so knowledgeable and articulate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on January 28, 2017, 10:06:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 09:17:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class
Yawn.

Here's some more nonsense right-wing cliches for you throw into your answers and wrongly think you're making an actual point.

Look on any forum or comment section and it's  rare you'll see a pro-Trump post not relying on at least one of the following pieces of tripe, and this forum is no exception.

"You just don't get it"
"SJWs"
"Snowflakes"
"Virtue signalling"
"Left-wing media"
"The tyranny of political correctness"
"PC brigade"
"Cultural Marxism"
"Liberal fascists"
"Liberal media"
"Liberal elite"
"Metropolitan elite"
"Trendy liberals"
"Real Americans"
"The people voted for Trump"
"Keep it up"
"Free speech"
"You take offence at everything"
"Shut up and get over it!"
"Clinton News Network"
"Liberal echo chamber"
"Liberal bubble"
"States' rights"
"Voter fraud"
"Climate change hoax"
"Biased liberal academia"
"Feminazis"
"Trigger warnings"
"Worst president ever"
"Draining the swamp"
"The Democrats are the party of slavery"
"Freedom haters"
"Nanny state"
"Small government"
"The magic of the market"
"Lock her up"
"B. Hussein Osama"

Don't forget Cuck or Butthurt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Doom rats are in the way back and will demolish Trump in the midterms.....you heard it here first
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Doom rats are in the way back and will demolish Trump in the midterms.....you heard it here first
Trump isn't running in the mid-term elections, mate.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:10:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Doom rats are in the way back and will demolish Trump in the midterms.....you heard it here first
Trump isn't running in the mid-term elections, mate.

His agenda is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 11:25:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:10:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Doom rats are in the way back and will demolish Trump in the midterms.....you heard it here first
Trump isn't running in the mid-term elections, mate.

His agenda is
Ah, but we were told "he isn't a Republican" and that "Republicans in the senate and the house profoundly disagreed with his agenda".

There goes that, so.

They've fallen right in behind him like the good little poodles they are.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:31:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 11:25:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:10:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Doom rats are in the way back and will demolish Trump in the midterms.....you heard it here first
Trump isn't running in the mid-term elections, mate.

His agenda is
Ah, but we were told "he isn't a Republican" and that "Republicans in the senate and the house profoundly disagreed with his agenda".

There goes that, so.

They've fallen right in behind him like the good little poodles they are.

Youre dead right......he was a Democrat his whole life.  They'll probably take it out on the Democrats instead...Keep her lit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 11:41:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:31:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 11:25:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:10:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Doom rats are in the way back and will demolish Trump in the midterms.....you heard it here first
Trump isn't running in the mid-term elections, mate.

His agenda is
Ah, but we were told "he isn't a Republican" and that "Republicans in the senate and the house profoundly disagreed with his agenda".

There goes that, so.

They've fallen right in behind him like the good little poodles they are.

Youre dead right......he was a Democrat his whole life.  They'll probably take it out on the Democrats instead...Keep her lit

Sorry, mate, he isn't a Democrat.

He's one of you.

And with any luck, he'll destroy your beloved party for ever.

That's the party of blatant religious discrimination, blatant racial discrimination, science denial, tax cuts for the 1%, and torture.

What an agenda for you to be proud of, you must be so proud, oh yeah.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:48:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 11:41:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:31:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 11:25:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:10:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Doom rats are in the way back and will demolish Trump in the midterms.....you heard it here first
Trump isn't running in the mid-term elections, mate.

His agenda is
Ah, but we were told "he isn't a Republican" and that "Republicans in the senate and the house profoundly disagreed with his agenda".

There goes that, so.

They've fallen right in behind him like the good little poodles they are.

Youre dead right......he was a Democrat his whole life.  They'll probably take it out on the Democrats instead...Keep her lit

Sorry, mate, he isn't a Democrat.

He's one of you.

And with any luck, he'll destroy your beloved party for ever.

That's the party of blatant religious discrimination, blatant racial discrimination, science denial, tax cuts for the 1%, and torture.

What an agenda for you to be proud of, you must be so proud, oh yeah.

I actually dislike him greatly and didnt vote for him and am a registered independent

But your assessment of who voted for him is exactly the reason he got elected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2017, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2017, 08:31:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

How does any of that refute what Puckoon or any of us have been saying, most recently about sanctuary cities and illegal immigration?

If what we are saying is tripe, then prove it through debate and discussion and spare us the "keep it up" nonsense.

Keep it up

Trump is sure to be defeated in 2020 if what youre saying is correct

Democrats are guaranteed to do awesome in the 2018 Midterms and may even win back some governships.   Its worked so well, why would you ever think about changing tactics?

Oh stop with the bullshit for two minutes. You're just getting tedious.

I'm not talking about elections - we're making points about issues and instead of addressing those points, all you're contributing is "keep it up" and going on about why the Dems lost the election to Trump.

Yeah, we get it. Trump seized on manufacturing jobs and islamophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment and won a nasty, populist campaign against a terrible candidate.

That he won doesn't make him right on all those and other issues. It just means he appealed to more people where it mattered.

Facts and being on the right side of an issue do not rest on popular appeal. Just as being on the right side of an issue is no guarantee of electoral success.

So either discuss what is being said on its own merits, or f**k away off.








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 28, 2017, 11:58:05 PM
Registered Independent? You actually have to register to be an Independent?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 12:03:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:48:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 11:41:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:31:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 11:25:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 11:10:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2017, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Doom rats are in the way back and will demolish Trump in the midterms.....you heard it here first
Trump isn't running in the mid-term elections, mate.

His agenda is
Ah, but we were told "he isn't a Republican" and that "Republicans in the senate and the house profoundly disagreed with his agenda".

There goes that, so.

They've fallen right in behind him like the good little poodles they are.

Youre dead right......he was a Democrat his whole life.  They'll probably take it out on the Democrats instead...Keep her lit

Sorry, mate, he isn't a Democrat.

He's one of you.

And with any luck, he'll destroy your beloved party for ever.

That's the party of blatant religious discrimination, blatant racial discrimination, science denial, tax cuts for the 1%, and torture.

What an agenda for you to be proud of, you must be so proud, oh yeah.

I actually dislike him greatly and didnt vote for him and am a registered independent

But your assessment of who voted for him is exactly the reason he got elected
Yes, it's description of people like yourself who are just fine with all those things.

That's why you voted for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 01:06:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Keep it up
Perhaps by 2018, you'll have learned to make a post without using the words "Keep it up" or some other nonsense alt-right (far right) cliche.

I see you're still utterly silent about Trump's blatantly fascist policies.

Which says a lot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2017, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 01:06:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Keep it up
Perhaps by 2018, you'll have learned to make a post without using the words "Keep it up" or some other nonsense alt-right (far right) cliche.

I see you're still utterly silent about Trump's blatantly fascist policies.

Which says a lot.

Haha...i never voted for him.  Im more of a Mitt Romney type of conservative.  Fiscally conservative and socially moderate. 

The Democrats only have themselves to blame for Trump getting elected.  They were so busy patting themselves on the back congratulating each other as to how enlightened and progressive they were, they failed to see that they were about to get punched in the mouth with a set of brass knuckles


Lame Stream Media wanted Trump so badly because he was the only "Republican" they thought she could beat......as a result he got upwards of $5B in free advertising from them.  Guess the old "pied piper" routine they cooked up with their buddy John Podesta didnt quite work out as they planned

Of course, these are only my opinions......and the opinions of conservatives are usually either wrong or underpinned by rascism/sexism/homophobia/islamophobia so they dont count.

As I pointed out a few weeks ago both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden explained what the problem was but according to J70 they were full of $hit too.

So keep the flame lit, keep on track and Trump will get a thumping at the midterms
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 02:03:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 01:06:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Keep it up
Perhaps by 2018, you'll have learned to make a post without using the words "Keep it up" or some other nonsense alt-right (far right) cliche.

I see you're still utterly silent about Trump's blatantly fascist policies.

Which says a lot.

Haha...i never voted for him.  Im more of a Mitt Romney type of conservative.  Fiscally conservative and socially moderate. 

The Democrats only have themselves to blame for Trump getting elected.  They were so busy patting themselves on the back congratulating each other as to how enlightened and progressive they were, they failed to see that they were about to get punched in the mouth with a set of brass knuckles


Lame Stream Media wanted Trump so badly because he was the only "Republican" they thought she could beat......as a result he got upwards of $5B in free advertising from them.  Guess the old "pied piper" routine they cooked up with their buddy John Podesta didnt quite work out as they planned

Of course, these are only my opinions......and the opinions of conservatives are usually either wrong or underpinned by rascism/sexism/homophobia/islamophobia so they dont count.

As I pointed out a few weeks ago both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden explained what the problem was but according to J70 they were full of $hit too.

So keep the flame lit, keep on track and Trump will get a thumping at the midterms

"A Mitt Romney type of conservative", but you're "independent".  ;D

"Lame stream media", you just couldn't resist another meaningless cliche, could you.

Keep it up.  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2017, 02:08:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 01:06:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Keep it up
Perhaps by 2018, you'll have learned to make a post without using the words "Keep it up" or some other nonsense alt-right (far right) cliche.

I see you're still utterly silent about Trump's blatantly fascist policies.

Which says a lot.

Haha...i never voted for him.  Im more of a Mitt Romney type of conservative.  Fiscally conservative and socially moderate. 

The Democrats only have themselves to blame for Trump getting elected.  They were so busy patting themselves on the back congratulating each other as to how enlightened and progressive they were, they failed to see that they were about to get punched in the mouth with a set of brass knuckles


Lame Stream Media wanted Trump so badly because he was the only "Republican" they thought she could beat......as a result he got upwards of $5B in free advertising from them.  Guess the old "pied piper" routine they cooked up with their buddy John Podesta didnt quite work out as they planned

Of course, these are only my opinions......and the opinions of conservatives are usually either wrong or underpinned by rascism/sexism/homophobia/islamophobia so they dont count.

As I pointed out a few weeks ago both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden explained what the problem was but according to J70 they were full of $hit too.

So keep the flame lit, keep on track and Trump will get a thumping at the midterms

I didn't say they were full of shit. Get your f**king story straight if you are going to call people out.

I said Bernie's reasons for being pissed off with the Democrats were likely diametrically opposed to yours. He may be concerned about working and middle class people, but his solutions are bigger government, much more taxes for the wealthy, free college and healthcare and so forth. Bernie has ALWAYS been pissed off with the Democrats, albeit less so than at the Republicans. Hence his independence.

As for Biden, given that he was responding to a question about declining support, my point was what the hell else was he going to say except to offer platitudes about the Dems having to do more to appeal to that segment. If he has expanded on that and offered actual solutions, by all means give us some info on that.

As for your opinions, how about posting something of substance instead of the carry-on you've been at recently. You've had plenty of opportunity to engage on the sanctuary city/immigration stuff, but you've offered nothing except telling us to "keep it up" because apparently our statements have some great meaning for the 2018 midterms.

Like I said, its getting tedious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2017, 02:11:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 02:03:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 01:06:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Keep it up
Perhaps by 2018, you'll have learned to make a post without using the words "Keep it up" or some other nonsense alt-right (far right) cliche.

I see you're still utterly silent about Trump's blatantly fascist policies.

Which says a lot.

Haha...i never voted for him.  Im more of a Mitt Romney type of conservative.  Fiscally conservative and socially moderate. 

The Democrats only have themselves to blame for Trump getting elected.  They were so busy patting themselves on the back congratulating each other as to how enlightened and progressive they were, they failed to see that they were about to get punched in the mouth with a set of brass knuckles


Lame Stream Media wanted Trump so badly because he was the only "Republican" they thought she could beat......as a result he got upwards of $5B in free advertising from them.  Guess the old "pied piper" routine they cooked up with their buddy John Podesta didnt quite work out as they planned

Of course, these are only my opinions......and the opinions of conservatives are usually either wrong or underpinned by rascism/sexism/homophobia/islamophobia so they dont count.

As I pointed out a few weeks ago both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden explained what the problem was but according to J70 they were full of $hit too.

So keep the flame lit, keep on track and Trump will get a thumping at the midterms

"A Mitt Romney type of conservative", but you're "independent".  ;D

"Lame stream media", you just couldn't resist another meaningless cliche, could you.

Keep it up.  ;D

Yes....thats why i used the word Conservative rather than using the word Republican.

Not all Conservatives are Republicans and not all Liberal are Democrats.

Its not really a hard concept for people of average intelligence to grasp

KIU

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 02:15:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 02:11:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 02:03:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 01:06:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Keep it up
Perhaps by 2018, you'll have learned to make a post without using the words "Keep it up" or some other nonsense alt-right (far right) cliche.

I see you're still utterly silent about Trump's blatantly fascist policies.

Which says a lot.

Haha...i never voted for him.  Im more of a Mitt Romney type of conservative.  Fiscally conservative and socially moderate. 

The Democrats only have themselves to blame for Trump getting elected.  They were so busy patting themselves on the back congratulating each other as to how enlightened and progressive they were, they failed to see that they were about to get punched in the mouth with a set of brass knuckles


Lame Stream Media wanted Trump so badly because he was the only "Republican" they thought she could beat......as a result he got upwards of $5B in free advertising from them.  Guess the old "pied piper" routine they cooked up with their buddy John Podesta didnt quite work out as they planned

Of course, these are only my opinions......and the opinions of conservatives are usually either wrong or underpinned by rascism/sexism/homophobia/islamophobia so they dont count.

As I pointed out a few weeks ago both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden explained what the problem was but according to J70 they were full of $hit too.

So keep the flame lit, keep on track and Trump will get a thumping at the midterms

"A Mitt Romney type of conservative", but you're "independent".  ;D

"Lame stream media", you just couldn't resist another meaningless cliche, could you.

Keep it up.  ;D

Yes....thats why i used the word Conservative rather than using the word Republican.

Not all Conservatives are Republicans and not all Liberal are Democrats.

Its not really a hard concept for people of average intelligence to grasp

KIU
Forgive me while I fall over laughing at you denigrating those of average intelligence.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2017, 02:38:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 02:15:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 02:11:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 02:03:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 01:06:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Keep it up
Perhaps by 2018, you'll have learned to make a post without using the words "Keep it up" or some other nonsense alt-right (far right) cliche.

I see you're still utterly silent about Trump's blatantly fascist policies.

Which says a lot.

Haha...i never voted for him.  Im more of a Mitt Romney type of conservative.  Fiscally conservative and socially moderate. 

The Democrats only have themselves to blame for Trump getting elected.  They were so busy patting themselves on the back congratulating each other as to how enlightened and progressive they were, they failed to see that they were about to get punched in the mouth with a set of brass knuckles


Lame Stream Media wanted Trump so badly because he was the only "Republican" they thought she could beat......as a result he got upwards of $5B in free advertising from them.  Guess the old "pied piper" routine they cooked up with their buddy John Podesta didnt quite work out as they planned

Of course, these are only my opinions......and the opinions of conservatives are usually either wrong or underpinned by rascism/sexism/homophobia/islamophobia so they dont count.

As I pointed out a few weeks ago both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden explained what the problem was but according to J70 they were full of $hit too.

So keep the flame lit, keep on track and Trump will get a thumping at the midterms

"A Mitt Romney type of conservative", but you're "independent".  ;D

"Lame stream media", you just couldn't resist another meaningless cliche, could you.

Keep it up.  ;D

Yes....thats why i used the word Conservative rather than using the word Republican.

Not all Conservatives are Republicans and not all Liberal are Democrats.

Its not really a hard concept for people of average intelligence to grasp

KIU
Forgive me while I fall over laughing at you denigrating those of average intelligence.  ;D

Haha...I thought youd enjoy that one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 29, 2017, 08:52:12 AM
Some intellectual wits on this board, looks like a few boys cracked a few off last night posting anonymously to another anonymous poster about something they obviously know f**k all about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 11:59:52 AM
Quote from: No wides on January 29, 2017, 08:52:12 AM
Some intellectual wits on this board, looks like a few boys cracked a few off last night posting anonymously to another anonymous poster about something they obviously know f**k all about.
Ah, and inevitably the "chic bigot", the one poster above all who could never be accused of knowing f**k all about anything weighs in for his say about yet another thing he knows f**k all about.  ;D




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:16:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 11:59:52 AM
Quote from: No wides on January 29, 2017, 08:52:12 AM
Some intellectual wits on this board, looks like a few boys cracked a few off last night posting anonymously to another anonymous poster about something they obviously know f**k all about.
Ah, and inevitably the "chic bigot", the one poster above all who could never be accused of knowing f**k all about anything weighs in for his say about yet another thing he knows f**k all about.  ;D

Don't know who you're referring to, but it most certainly wasn't me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:16:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 11:59:52 AM
Quote from: No wides on January 29, 2017, 08:52:12 AM
Some intellectual wits on this board, looks like a few boys cracked a few off last night posting anonymously to another anonymous poster about something they obviously know f**k all about.
Ah, and inevitably the "chic bigot", the one poster above all who could never be accused of knowing f**k all about anything weighs in for his say about yet another thing he knows f**k all about.  ;D

Don't know who you're referring to, but it most certainly wasn't me
Figures that you don't understand the quote function.

Figures that you'd immediately think a post referring to another poster as a bigot would refer to you, though.

You obviously have some self-awareness.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2017, 12:26:36 PM
Haha...keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2017, 12:28:25 PM
Apparently some judges have partially shelved Trump's muslim ban, which unfolded with no regard whatsoever for the actual people caught up in it. That should get him going on Twitter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Take Your Points on January 29, 2017, 03:05:21 PM
See how quickly this is building from yesterday evening:

Petition to UK Parliament to not give a state visit to Trump (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928%20url)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 29, 2017, 08:02:46 PM
Quote from: stew on January 28, 2017, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2017, 12:55:32 AM
Well said Sid.

Luck his hole a wee bit more to the right, you missed a spot!

Ross is unable to think for himself so tags on to fools instead. He's missing his customary "+1' though

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 29, 2017, 08:06:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2017, 06:33:57 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 28, 2017, 06:32:11 PM
Was Puckoon factualy incorrect?

Don't think it matters if he was correct.

Moral high ground argument for the liberals. Doesn't matter that Hillary lost either. Never going to accept it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 29, 2017, 08:10:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2017, 12:28:25 PM
Apparently some judges have partially shelved Trump's muslim ban, which unfolded with no regard whatsoever for the actual people caught up in it. That should get him going on Twitter.

If it's a muslim ban are all muslims prevented from travelling to the USA?

Alternative facts - eh J70?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 29, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2017, 08:02:46 PM
Quote from: stew on January 28, 2017, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2017, 12:55:32 AM
Well said Sid.

Luck his hole a wee bit more to the right, you missed a spot!

Ross is unable to think for himself so tags on to fools instead. He's missing his customary "+1' though
Still waiting for you to reply to my points.

Have you managed to think for yourself as to how to do this yet or are you waiting for your fellow Trumpbots to reply first?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2017, 09:19:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2017, 08:10:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2017, 12:28:25 PM
Apparently some judges have partially shelved Trump's muslim ban, which unfolded with no regard whatsoever for the actual people caught up in it. That should get him going on Twitter.

If it's a muslim ban are all muslims prevented from travelling to the USA?

Alternative facts - eh J70?

Only people from those countries getting in are persecuted christians and other minority religions. As if THEY'RE the only ones with major problems there.

But that's not even the main issue. Leaving aside the complete absence of evidence that refugees have been any kind of even trivial risk within the US and giving Trump the benefit of the doubt that ISIS or Al Qaida may try to put would-be terrorists through what is already a very intense screening process, the big issue with this executive order is the slipshod, callous manner in which he introduced the ban: people in midflight, families getting separated at the airport, people returning to legitimate jobs and lives, some with proper greencards and the rest, and government agencies with no preparation and government lawyers completely unprepared to answer the challenges in court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2017, 09:22:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2017, 08:06:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2017, 06:33:57 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 28, 2017, 06:32:11 PM
Was Puckoon factualy incorrect?

Don't think it matters if he was correct.

Moral high ground argument for the liberals. Doesn't matter that Hillary lost either. Never going to accept it.

Doesn't mean its not the correct argument. If you disagree, then tell us why.

As for the Hillary bit, who here is having trouble accepting she lost?

Name names.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 29, 2017, 09:33:27 PM
Will Jordan ‏@williamjordann  2 h

Days until achieving MAJORITY disapproval from @Gallup

Reagan: 727
Bush I: 1336
Clinton: 573
Bush II: 1205
Obama: 936

Trump: 8. days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 29, 2017, 10:45:07 PM
Is it a complete ban from the 7 named Countries or are persecuted minorities except?
How would one prove they were a persecuted minority? Is it just Christians and Jews or are all minorities exempt?
What about Ahmadis and other minority Muslim sects considered heretics and persecuted by Sunni's?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 29, 2017, 11:08:13 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2017, 10:45:07 PM
Is it a complete ban from the 7 named Countries or are persecuted minorities except?
How would one prove they were a persecuted minority? Is it just Christians and Jews or are all minorities exempt?
What about Ahmadis and other minority Muslim sects considered heretics and persecuted by Sunni's?

Complete!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 29, 2017, 11:17:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 29, 2017, 11:08:13 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2017, 10:45:07 PM
Is it a complete ban from the 7 named Countries or are persecuted minorities except?
How would one prove they were a persecuted minority? Is it just Christians and Jews or are all minorities exempt?
What about Ahmadis and other minority Muslim sects considered heretics and persecuted by Sunni's?

Complete!!!
Yep. Some of those banned are Yazidi's who have been on the front line against ISIS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 30, 2017, 12:14:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2017, 09:33:27 PM
Will Jordan ‏@williamjordann  2 h

Days until achieving MAJORITY disapproval from @Gallup

Reagan: 727
Bush I: 1336
Clinton: 573
Bush II: 1205
Obama: 936

Trump: 8. days.

But sure he never achieved majority approval in the first place
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 30, 2017, 12:25:13 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 29, 2017, 11:08:13 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2017, 10:45:07 PM
Is it a complete ban from the 7 named Countries or are persecuted minorities except?
How would one prove they were a persecuted minority? Is it just Christians and Jews or are all minorities exempt?
What about Ahmadis and other minority Muslim sects considered heretics and persecuted by Sunni's?

Complete!!!

Is it? Anyone confirm or refute that green card holders are also being refused entry? If so then are they gonna also start to round up green card holders?

Rights and wrongs aside this is a completely unthought out action, looks like Trump didnt even take any legal advice before issuing it. Tho TBH I would be more surprised if he had sought legal consul!

Also seems like alot of the DHS officials are disobeying explicit court orders, whats next Federal Marshals getting involved?

This is turning a bit crazy...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 30, 2017, 12:34:05 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 30, 2017, 12:25:13 AM

This is turning a bit crazy...
Who could ever have guessed electing a complete moron would mean things turning crazy?!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 30, 2017, 04:42:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

That is a pretty good article on why you are pissed off,  Whitey and why people want to buy into Trump's post fact universe but it does not do anything to validate your statement. So come on, give us a few facts to back up how the Press are constantly lying to us to help us undermine your conservative values. I agree with you the  Press are guilty; guilty of ... being duped into giving false equivalency to "alternative facts". Have you read Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. I refer you to the Tea Party and the conversation between, Alice, the Mad Hatter, the March Hare and others.. You might recognize who some of the characters resemble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 30, 2017, 04:55:30 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 30, 2017, 12:25:13 AM


Is it? Anyone confirm or refute that green card holders are also being refused entry? If so then are they gonna also start to round up green card holders?

Rights and wrongs aside this is a completely unthought out action, looks like Trump didnt even take any legal advice before issuing it. Tho TBH I would be more surprised if he had sought legal consul!



See below ruling forcing the repatriation of a green card holder sent back to Dubai

https://www.aclusocal.org/sites/default/files/vayeghan_-_order_re_tro.pdf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 30, 2017, 06:07:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 30, 2017, 12:34:05 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 30, 2017, 12:25:13 AM

This is turning a bit crazy...
Who could ever have guessed electing a complete moron would mean things turning crazy?!  ;D
Why would a serial bankrupt make a horse's arse of it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 30, 2017, 06:35:18 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2017, 10:45:07 PM
Is it a complete ban from the 7 named Countries or are persecuted minorities except?
How would one prove they were a persecuted minority? Is it just Christians and Jews or are all minorities exempt?
What about Ahmadis and other minority Muslim sects considered heretics and persecuted by Sunni's?
Religious minorities which are not Muslim. Not social minorities such as GLBT.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on January 30, 2017, 10:06:08 AM
Whitey considers himself to be socially moderate, now that is scary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 30, 2017, 10:55:09 AM
I presume Trump and the haters here will be pleased with their fellow terrorists' murders in Quebec?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 30, 2017, 11:14:45 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 30, 2017, 10:06:08 AM
Whitey considers himself to be socially moderate, now that is scary.
I was surprised to see Whitey coming out with the nonsense about the lying media
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 30, 2017, 11:25:32 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 30, 2017, 06:35:18 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2017, 10:45:07 PM
Is it a complete ban from the 7 named Countries or are persecuted minorities except?
How would one prove they were a persecuted minority? Is it just Christians and Jews or are all minorities exempt?
What about Ahmadis and other minority Muslim sects considered heretics and persecuted by Sunni's?
Religious minorities which are not Muslim. Not social minorities such as GLBT.
Does it specifically mention Muslims / Islam or just religious minorities which could theoretically include minority muslim groupings?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 30, 2017, 12:01:40 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trump_daily_bankruptcy_israel_ambassador_david_friedman
Avishai Margalit, an Israeli philosopher and co-founder of Peace Now, told me. "Everything is an outlier. No one can predict anything. It's not as if there is a deviation and you try to explain it. Everything is a deviation. You cannot rationalize it. It's a family business, and they treat the White House as a family business, like Don Corleone. He doesn't feel that he has to please anybody. You bully everyone and see what happens.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 30, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 30, 2017, 11:25:32 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 30, 2017, 06:35:18 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2017, 10:45:07 PM
Is it a complete ban from the 7 named Countries or are persecuted minorities except?
How would one prove they were a persecuted minority? Is it just Christians and Jews or are all minorities exempt?
What about Ahmadis and other minority Muslim sects considered heretics and persecuted by Sunni's?
Religious minorities which are not Muslim. Not social minorities such as GLBT.
Does it specifically mention Muslims / Islam or just religious minorities which could theoretically include minority muslim groupings?

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-states
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 12:19:09 PM
It's not an issue folks there were no problems over the weekend except an outage on Delta computers!!!

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Gk39Gg7Yi9Y/UwmXf7kq31I/AAAAAAAAAzo/hLArhnv3FxQ/s1600/nothing_to_see_here.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 30, 2017, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 30, 2017, 04:42:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2017, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
What matters is whether it feels correct to those who wish to exist in an alternative reality and trade in alternative facts.

Not really.....the MSM has been found out!  People have smartened up to the lies and bullshit that they were been spoon fed for years.....much of that same tripe is regurgitated by most of the lefties on here. 

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

That is a pretty good article on why you are pissed off,  Whitey and why people want to buy into Trump's post fact universe but it does not do anything to validate your statement. So come on, give us a few facts to back up how the Press are constantly lying to us to help us undermine your conservative values. I agree with you the  Press are guilty; guilty of ... being duped into giving false equivalency to "alternative facts". Have you read Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. I refer you to the Tea Party and the conversation between, Alice, the Mad Hatter, the March Hare and others.. You might recognize who some of the characters resemble.

Hannah Arendt's "The Origins of Totalitarianism" sums up people like whitey perfectly.

(http://tfk.thefreekick.com/uploads/default/original/3X/4/3/43f4c0e8b4e339fa83ed998949a998c10b63fcdd.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 30, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 30, 2017, 12:34:05 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 30, 2017, 12:25:13 AM

This is turning a bit crazy...
Who could ever have guessed electing a complete moron would mean things turning crazy?!  ;D

Speaking of morons, how do you feel about your hero Obama banning Cubans from the States, you know the poor bastards that float on rafts in shark infested waters just to plant their feet on dry sand in Florida?

Amazing the lack of noise coming from the left about one of the last executive orders from Obama, if big bad Trump had done that you lot would be dunging the togs to pile on about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 03:42:16 PM
Quote from: stew on January 30, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 30, 2017, 12:34:05 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 30, 2017, 12:25:13 AM

This is turning a bit crazy...
Who could ever have guessed electing a complete moron would mean things turning crazy?!  ;D

Speaking of morons, how do you feel about your hero Obama banning Cubans from the States, you know the poor b**tards that float on rafts in shark infested waters just to plant their feet on dry sand in Florida?

Amazing the lack of noise coming from the left about one of the last executive orders from Obama, if big bad Trump had done that you lot would be dunging the togs to pile on about it.

Am I wrong in suggesting that Trump's EO is banning all entries from those countries whether people have been granted Visas/Green Cards or not.

Hardly comparable with Obama not allowing Cubans to enter the Country illegally!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 30, 2017, 03:56:05 PM
Quote from: stew on January 30, 2017, 03:36:37 PM


Speaking of morons, how do you feel about your hero Obama banning Cubans from the States, you know the poor b**tards that float on rafts in shark infested waters just to plant their feet on dry sand in Florida?

Amazing the lack of noise coming from the left about one of the last executive orders from Obama, if big bad Trump had done that you lot would be dunging the togs to pile on about it.

Stew,
not the most humanitarian option, but its exactly the same as the EU's approach to migration from Africa. How are you on that one? Pick and choose your battles. Both sides have massive liabilities
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 30, 2017, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: stew on January 30, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 30, 2017, 12:34:05 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 30, 2017, 12:25:13 AM

This is turning a bit crazy...
Who could ever have guessed electing a complete moron would mean things turning crazy?!  ;D

Speaking of morons, how do you feel about your hero Obama banning Cubans from the States, you know the poor b**tards that float on rafts in shark infested waters just to plant their feet on dry sand in Florida?

Amazing the lack of noise coming from the left about one of the last executive orders from Obama, if big bad Trump had done that you lot would be dunging the togs to pile on about it.

Er... no he didn't "ban" Cubans. They are merely now subject to the SAME immigration laws as everyone else. He ended the automatic qualification for residency which elevated them above other groups. I can see where people would question that decision, but it is not the same thing at all.

Really stew, you need to start reading actual news articles before flying off the handle with rage because you saw some bullshit on Facebook.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on January 30, 2017, 04:05:00 PM
Cant see an issue with him banning - after all he did promise this on his manifesto so you reap what you sow as such. But why only chose certain countries? He didnt bother his ass banning the countries he does business in or even the main architects of 9/11 - S Arabia.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
It was not thought through correctly at all.

Instead of saying "from now all applications for green cards/visas from these certain countries will not be given consideration for 120 days" he just banned everyone from those countries so people who have been granted green cards and visas were fucked when they landed at the airport and still will be as far as I can see?

It's a total clusterfuck and the first of many... but hey let's give him a chance  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 30, 2017, 04:36:38 PM
QuoteSince the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, no one has been killed in the United States in a terrorist attack by anyone who emigrated from or whose parents emigrated from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen, the seven countries targeted in the order's 120-day visa ban, according to Charles Kurzman, a sociology professor at the University of North Carolina
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 30, 2017, 04:50:07 PM
Powerful New York Times Magazine front cover

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3VOnpUWAAAZLoN.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 30, 2017, 04:56:50 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 30, 2017, 04:36:38 PM
QuoteSince the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, no one has been killed in the United States in a terrorist attack by anyone who emigrated from or whose parents emigrated from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen, the seven countries targeted in the order's 120-day visa ban, according to Charles Kurzman, a sociology professor at the University of North Carolina

Your signature has never rang more true heganboy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 30, 2017, 05:34:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
It was not thought through correctly at all.

Instead of saying "from now all applications for green cards/visas from these certain countries will not be given consideration for 120 days" he just banned everyone from those countries so people who have been granted green cards and visas were fucked when they landed at the airport and still will be as far as I can see?

It's a total clusterfuck and the first of many... but hey let's give him a chance  ::)
Why do you think he is a serial bankrupt?
He doesn't think anything through
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 30, 2017, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
It was not thought through correctly at all.

Instead of saying "from now all applications for green cards/visas from these certain countries will not be given consideration for 120 days" he just banned everyone from those countries so people who have been granted green cards and visas were fucked when they landed at the airport and still will be as far as I can see?

It's a total clusterfuck and the first of many... but hey let's give him a chance  ::)

I have that useless f**ker Obama a chance, everyone deserves a chance, I would even have given that tur d Clinton a chance, but not you, I don't think itcwoukd have mattered who won the Republican primary, many on here would have given mine of them a chance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 30, 2017, 10:10:39 PM
http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2017/01/we-real-conservatives-warned-you-trump-will-not-get-better-heres-what-you-can-do/134967/?oref=defenseone_today_nl

We have yet to see what happens when Trump tries to use the Internal Revenue Service or the Federal Bureau of Investigation to destroy his opponents. He thinks he has succeeded in bullying companies, and he has no compunction about bullying individuals, including those with infinitely less power than himself. His advisers are already calling for journalists critical of the administration to be fired: Expect more efforts at personal retribution. He has demonstrated that he intends to govern by executive orders that will replace the laws passed by the people's representatives.
In the end, however, he will fail. He will fail because however shrewd his tactics are, his strategy is terrible—The New York Times, the CIA, Mexican Americans, and all the others he has attacked are not going away. With every act he makes new enemies for himself and strengthens their commitment; he has his followers, but he gains no new friends. He will fail because he cannot corrupt the courts, and because even the most timid senator sooner or later will say "enough." He will fail most of all because at the end of the day most Americans, including most of those who voted for him, are decent people who have no desire to live in an American version of Tayyip Erdogan's Turkey, or Viktor Orban's Hungary, or Vladimir Putin's Russia.
There was nothing unanticipated in this first disturbing week of the Trump administration. It will not get better. Americans should therefore steel themselves, and hold their representatives to account. Those in a position to take a stand should do so, and those who are not should lay the groundwork for a better day. There is nothing great about the America that Trump thinks he is going to make; but in the end, it is the greatness of America that will stop him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 30, 2017, 11:00:41 PM
Is it too late to nominate these two for this years Oscars for best lead actor/actress? What performances! The crocodile tears flowing touching the hearts of millions, a bit like that scene in Jerry Maguire.

"As the Statue of Liberty holds her torch of welcome high, there are tears in her eyes as she sees how low this Administration has stooped in its callousness toward mothers and children escaping war-torn Syria," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi,

"Tears are running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight as a grand tradition of America, welcoming immigrants, that has existed since America was founded has been stomped upon," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer,

Bravo! Take a bow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 30, 2017, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 30, 2017, 11:00:41 PM
Is it too late to nominate these two for this years Oscars for best lead actor/actress? What performances! The crocodile tears flowing touching the hearts of millions, a bit like that scene in Jerry Maguire.

"As the Statue of Liberty holds her torch of welcome high, there are tears in her eyes as she sees how low this Administration has stooped in its callousness toward mothers and children escaping war-torn Syria," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi,

"Tears are running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight as a grand tradition of America, welcoming immigrants, that has existed since America was founded has been stomped upon," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer,

Bravo! Take a bow.


Is it too late to nominate yourself, Stew and Whitey for the Golden Raspberry Award for "worst portrayal of a knowledgeable poster about US politics"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM
Keep it up.....you are right and anyone who has a different opinion to you  is wrong (and a fascist/rascist/islamophobe/homophobe/minsogynst to boot)

The American people have woken up and seen through the bullshit the press and the Democrats have been spoon feeding them for years.  The Democrats haven't been at such a low ebb politically since the 1920s.

I actually think a healthy and robust opposition is good for democracy, but as long as Democrats keep focusing on important issues such as transgender bathrooms and the Cleveland Indians mascot I don't hold out too much hope.

Just started a new job so I won't have as much time for posting. 

Be well and keep safe everyone




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
This is a very, very disturbing article.

The bit at the end of it is only opinion, but Andrew Sullivan (who is a writer I really respect) has consistently maintained Trump wants to run the US like Putin runs Russia, most specifically for his own personal enrichment, and the pieces are starting to fall into place.

This is real fascism and a real threat to democracy. It's one of the greatest con jobs of all time.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.fll4kgamn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 12:29:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM
The American people have woken up and

...and about 3 million more people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump. Don't give me your "the people have spoken and they love Trump" BS. This is a coup d'etat and you know it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 12:31:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 30, 2017, 11:00:41 PM
Is it too late to nominate these two for this years Oscars for best lead actor/actress? What performances! The crocodile tears flowing touching the hearts of millions, a bit like that scene in Jerry Maguire.

"As the Statue of Liberty holds her torch of welcome high, there are tears in her eyes as she sees how low this Administration has stooped in its callousness toward mothers and children escaping war-torn Syria," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi,

"Tears are running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight as a grand tradition of America, welcoming immigrants, that has existed since America was founded has been stomped upon," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer,

Bravo! Take a bow.

I have seriously come to the conclusion that you don't actually believe any of the fascist bile that flows forth from your mouth. You've just adopted this uber-nationalist persona online to wind people up, haven't you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 12:34:39 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 12:31:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 30, 2017, 11:00:41 PM
Is it too late to nominate these two for this years Oscars for best lead actor/actress? What performances! The crocodile tears flowing touching the hearts of millions, a bit like that scene in Jerry Maguire.

"As the Statue of Liberty holds her torch of welcome high, there are tears in her eyes as she sees how low this Administration has stooped in its callousness toward mothers and children escaping war-torn Syria," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi,

"Tears are running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight as a grand tradition of America, welcoming immigrants, that has existed since America was founded has been stomped upon," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer,

Bravo! Take a bow.

I have seriously come to the conclusion that you don't actually believe any of the fascist bile that flows forth from your mouth. You've just adopted this uber-nationalist persona online to wind people up, haven't you?

I bet they thought that about the chap who shot six people dead in a mosque in Quebec last night.

He was a right-wing internet troll too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2017, 01:09:38 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 12:29:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM
The American people have woken up and

...and about 3 million more people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump. Don't give me your "the people have spoken and they love Trump" BS. This is a coup d'etat and you know it.

Your right....Democrats are going to sweep the decks at the next election.  They have way more support than Republicans have.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 01:26:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 01:16:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 12:34:39 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 12:31:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 30, 2017, 11:00:41 PM
Is it too late to nominate these two for this years Oscars for best lead actor/actress? What performances! The crocodile tears flowing touching the hearts of millions, a bit like that scene in Jerry Maguire.

"As the Statue of Liberty holds her torch of welcome high, there are tears in her eyes as she sees how low this Administration has stooped in its callousness toward mothers and children escaping war-torn Syria," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi,

"Tears are running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight as a grand tradition of America, welcoming immigrants, that has existed since America was founded has been stomped upon," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer,

Bravo! Take a bow.

I have seriously come to the conclusion that you don't actually believe any of the fascist bile that flows forth from your mouth. You've just adopted this uber-nationalist persona online to wind people up, haven't you?

I bet they thought that about the chap who shot six people dead in a mosque in Quebec last night.

He was a right-wing internet troll too.

No....I believe pretty much everything I post. Occasionally I will stir the pot when I see one of the lefties come out with some outrageous statement.

Look back at the posts since the election started....I was a lot more right than I was wrong about a lot of stuff.  But you guys seem to have figured out why you got hammered this to around and what you need to do to right the ship

"Whitey" is a tedious wind up.

"Seamus" is a gullible fool who is a walking example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Stew has been posting on this forum for at least 15 years, I'd say, and while he's clearly a bit dim, is ultimately harmless.

"Foxkommander" and particularly "No Wides" are the posters you'd genuinely worry about in real life. The types who are clearly so filled with genuine rage that you wouldn't be that surprised if they did something really crazy.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 31, 2017, 07:42:34 AM
Like what, accept the result of a democratic election, be that in the UK or US?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 31, 2017, 07:45:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 12:29:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM
The American people have woken up and

...and about 3 million more people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump. Don't give me your "the people have spoken and they love Trump" BS. This is a coup d'etat and you know it.

And what?  Maybe you should get Rossfan over to the US and get PR voting - it is a democratic election, it is what it is, if you don't like it f**k off back home.   ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 31, 2017, 07:55:44 AM
"Trump's voter fraud expert registered in 3 states." Well, he did say he was an expert at voter fraud

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3e43iuWMAEjHxp.jpg:large)

Must say this has been my favourite protest sign

(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16426043_1274341545937981_3297903023957497878_n.jpg?oh=3b9a1128e92198092936317668549aaf&oe=59013D4A)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 31, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
Conratulations to the liberal mob in Portland Airport yesterday, they were no,d enough to harass and then render a Trump supporter unconcious yesterday, oh they were a whoppin and a hollerin and were dumb enough to put the incident on Facebook.

The problem they have now is some of them are going to jail, I hope they rot collectively the horrible scum bastards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on January 31, 2017, 08:38:19 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
It was not thought through correctly at all.

Instead of saying "from now all applications for green cards/visas from these certain countries will not be given consideration for 120 days" he just banned everyone from those countries so people who have been granted green cards and visas were fucked when they landed at the airport and still will be as far as I can see?

It's a total clusterfuck and the first of many... but hey let's give him a chance  ::)
Yep, certainly seems to have been mistakes re green card /visa holders, although from what I read I thought most of them ended up being let it, but had to endure hours of questioning and or detention. Clearly though it's not a ban on everyone born in those countries, as Mo Farah (Somalia born and living in Oregon) has been told the 90/120 day ban doesn't impact on him.

I think there's been an over-reaction to this temporary ban. He said he'd tighten immigration, and he's started tightening immigration. And as much as anything, this temporary ban is a lot to do with been seeing to be doing something. Will there be the same over-reaction when the Brits tighten their immigation laws, as promised,  post Brexit, which will inevitably hit Muslim countries more than most as this is where many of the refugees are comign from (athough the Brits will be more subtle about it)?

And now we're having "a complete review" of US immigration pre-clearance facilities in Dublin and Shannon! So the Irish can take a stand. Woohoo.  Instead of going through minor inconvenience of pre-clearance over here, we'll instead join the long queues in the US to go through immigration over there! FFS 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 31, 2017, 09:14:17 AM
When Richard Nixon's own White House counsel John Dean says this...

I've never read White House statement as nasty as Trump's attack on Acting AG Sally Yates. New low.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 31, 2017, 09:32:00 AM
I love this "Temporary Ban" notion . . . does anyone actually believe that in 3/4 months time the ban will be lifted??!!!

No chance!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Walter Cronc on January 31, 2017, 09:36:14 AM
This 1 million signatures in the UK. Does that mean parliament have to debate it? Cant see them banning him to be honest. Likely be a big crowd on the streets protesting mind you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 09:53:14 AM
Trump doesn't have the temperament to be President. He will do a lot of damage to the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 31, 2017, 10:20:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 09:53:14 AM
Trump doesn't have the temperament to be President. He will do a lot of damage to the GOP.

Trump doesn't give a flying fúck for normal politicking and less so the impact to the GOP or any other establishment body, its all about his ego.

How he's getting away with it is the scariest thing!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 31, 2017, 11:54:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
This is a very, very disturbing article.

The bit at the end of it is only opinion, but Andrew Sullivan (who is a writer I really respect) has consistently maintained Trump wants to run the US like Putin runs Russia, most specifically for his own personal enrichment, and the pieces are starting to fall into place.

This is real fascism and a real threat to democracy. It's one of the greatest con jobs of all time.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.fll4kgamn (https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.fll4kgamn)

In case anybody missed it, here's another article (https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/what-things-going-wrong-can-look-like-400f84a0cc3a#.qof60pitj) referenced by Zunger in that piece.

Andrew Sullivan, as you say, has also been writing on this theme – this is an absorbing read (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html).

Also Tobias Stone (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html) and Robert Kagan (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b&utm_term=.0656ab434b31).

I've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though? We're already knocking out the room partitions to accommodate the elephant.

(Note to the Trump cabal here – compare this restraint with the batshit lunatic claims of the right wing media about all things liberal.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2017, 12:02:37 PM
Quote from: stew on January 30, 2017, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
It was not thought through correctly at all.

Instead of saying "from now all applications for green cards/visas from these certain countries will not be given consideration for 120 days" he just banned everyone from those countries so people who have been granted green cards and visas were fucked when they landed at the airport and still will be as far as I can see?

It's a total clusterfuck and the first of many... but hey let's give him a chance  ::)

I have that useless f**ker Obama a chance, everyone deserves a chance, I would even have given that tur d Clinton a chance, but not you, I don't think itcwoukd have mattered who won the Republican primary, many on here would have given mine of them a chance.

That's all well and good stew, but Obama didn't (and Clinton wouldn't have) start out basing their direction and decisions on conspiracy theories and bullshit and blatant, bald-faced lying. He's made his own bed.

But go ahead, tell us how the inauguration attendance, the stranding of and separation of families at airport, the evidence-free claims of voter fraud, the Comical Ali press secretary, the turning our backs on refugees due to their religion, the replacement of professional national security/military people with Bannon on the NSC, the nomination of numerous people with contempt for the missions of various agencies to lead said agencies, and so on and on, is worthy of our understanding.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 31, 2017, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 12:02:37 PM
Quote from: stew on January 30, 2017, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
It was not thought through correctly at all.

Instead of saying "from now all applications for green cards/visas from these certain countries will not be given consideration for 120 days" he just banned everyone from those countries so people who have been granted green cards and visas were fucked when they landed at the airport and still will be as far as I can see?

It's a total clusterfuck and the first of many... but hey let's give him a chance  ::)

I have that useless f**ker Obama a chance, everyone deserves a chance, I would even have given that tur d Clinton a chance, but not you, I don't think itcwoukd have mattered who won the Republican primary, many on here would have given mine of them a chance.

That's all well and good stew, but Obama didn't (and Clinton wouldn't have) base their direction and decisions on conspiracy theories and bullshit and blatant, bald-faced lying. He's made his own bed.

But go ahead, tell us how the inauguration attendance, the stranding of and separation of families at airport, the evidence-free claims of voter fraud, the Comical Ali press secretary, the turning our backs on refugees due to their religion, the replacement of professional national security/military people with Bannon on the NSC, the nomination of numerous people with contempt for the missions of various agencies to lead said agencies, and so on and on, is worthy of our understanding.

I DO NOT LIKE TRUMP!

There is enough shit Obama did to keep you going for a while, I have always maintained Trump was a Democrat, as I said many times follow the money.

I believe he is a one term President, he Will do some good and will do a lot wrong.

You speak of agencies, one such agency targeted Republicans and had them audited, then had to apologise when they were caught, the media is overwhelmingly liberal and any candidate other than Clinton had run the Democrats would be in the White house not Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 31, 2017, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

https://www.facebook.com/PhilosophyMttrs/photos/a.305663529533101.58006.305644206201700/961473263952121/?type=3&theater
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 12:41:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 31, 2017, 11:54:31 AM


Quote from: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
This is a very, very disturbing article.


The bit at the end of it is only opinion, but Andrew Sullivan (who is a writer I really respect) has consistently maintained Trump wants to run the US like Putin runs Russia, most specifically for his own personal enrichment, and the pieces are starting to fall into place.


This is real fascism and a real threat to democracy. It's one of the greatest con jobs of all time.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.fll4kgamn (https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.fll4kgamn)

In case anybody missed it, here's another article (https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/what-things-going-wrong-can-look-like-400f84a0cc3a#.qof60pitj) referenced by Zunger in that piece.

Andrew Sullivan, as you say, has also been writing on this theme – this is an absorbing read (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html).

Also Tobias Stone (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html) and Robert Kagan (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b&utm_term=.0656ab434b31).

I've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though? We're already knocking out the room partitions to accommodate the elephant.

(Note to the Trump cabal here – compare this restraint with the batshit lunatic claims of the alt-right about all things liberal.)

The "alt-right" (far right), ironically, share no such reluctance with branding things they dislike as "Nazi" or "facist".

Hence nonsense like "feminazis", "Liberal fascism" "the tyranny of political correctness" and Trump comparing the media, his intelligence services and John McCain to "something out of Nazi Germany".

And sometimes, the exact same people who complain about genuine and wholly accurate comparisons of the tactics of the current far right to fascism are the exact same people who regularly engage in frivolous ones themselves, such as Ian O'Doherty, who recently wrote an article lecturing people about comparing Trump to fascism, seemingly completely oblivious to his own regular references to feminists as "feminazis".

The question is - how do you confront real fascism, which is clearly in the ascendant both in the US and in much of Europe right now.

Facts and rational argument don't work, because followers of Trump, UKIP, Le Pen and all the rest have a cult-like belief in their righteousness and infallibility. They don't respond to facts or rational argument.

Violence would merely be counter-productive and play into the hands of the fascists.

In the end, it took a world war to confront and destroy the fascism of the 1930s.

The further and further away from that terrible time we move, the more people are destined to forget or be completely oblivious to the lessons of the 1930s, and the more the modern twist on those ideas seems to appeal to the vulnerable and the gullible.

I keep reading and hearing stuff like "Trump's opponent's simply don't understand what his appeal is, they just don't get it."

But that's clearly nonsense. We all know what his appeal is, and the techniques he uses. He uses the exact same tactics as the fascists of the 1930s used. That is to use his personal charisma to portray himself as a "strong man" - a cult-like leader. He also appeals to the power of the past and ingrained and inherited notions of privilege as a birthright.

It goes something like this: "You are now weak and oppressed, because of the "other". But if you follow me you will be strong and regain the privilege that your ancestors had, and which has been so unjustly denied to you. That privilege has been denied to you because of the "other."

Trump shouts loudest and at all points, blames "others", because in the right circumstances, nothing mobilises support like hatred does.

There is an inner bully and inner psychopath in all of us. It only takes the right (wrong) circumstances to unleash it. A civilised society depends on that inner bully and inner psychopath being suppressed. Thankfully most people can control it and keep it under wraps. The far right's tactic is to try to create the circumstances whereby the inner bully and inner psychopath in people is released. They do this by appealing to hatred.

The likes of Abu Hamza are rightly classed are purveyors of hate speech.

But Trump, Le Pen and Farage do exactly the same thing. They mobilise support by vilifying "others". The key is that they cloak it in just enough plausible deniability to deny that it is such. But the triggers that unleash the latent inner bullies of their followers are there in what they say.

And the logical results are incidents like what happened in Quebec on Sunday night, the Dylann Roof massacre in Carolina, and the murder of Jo Cox.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2017, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: stew on January 31, 2017, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 12:02:37 PM
Quote from: stew on January 30, 2017, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
It was not thought through correctly at all.

Instead of saying "from now all applications for green cards/visas from these certain countries will not be given consideration for 120 days" he just banned everyone from those countries so people who have been granted green cards and visas were fucked when they landed at the airport and still will be as far as I can see?

It's a total clusterfuck and the first of many... but hey let's give him a chance  ::)

I have that useless f**ker Obama a chance, everyone deserves a chance, I would even have given that tur d Clinton a chance, but not you, I don't think itcwoukd have mattered who won the Republican primary, many on here would have given mine of them a chance.

That's all well and good stew, but Obama didn't (and Clinton wouldn't have) base their direction and decisions on conspiracy theories and bullshit and blatant, bald-faced lying. He's made his own bed.

But go ahead, tell us how the inauguration attendance, the stranding of and separation of families at airport, the evidence-free claims of voter fraud, the Comical Ali press secretary, the turning our backs on refugees due to their religion, the replacement of professional national security/military people with Bannon on the NSC, the nomination of numerous people with contempt for the missions of various agencies to lead said agencies, and so on and on, is worthy of our understanding.

I DO NOT LIKE TRUMP!

There is enough shit Obama did to keep you going for a while, I have always maintained Trump was a Democrat, as I said many times follow the money.

I believe he is a one term President, he Will do some good and will do a lot wrong.

You speak of agencies, one such agency targeted Republicans and had them audited, then had to apologise when they were caught, the media is overwhelmingly liberal and any candidate other than Clinton had run the Democrats would be in the White house not Trump.

If YOU DON"T LIKE TRUMP, why are you getting your knickers in a twist about the justified criticism of him that is taking place here?

And seriously, drop the "Trump is a Democrat" bullshit. Its been pointed out to you multiple times that Trump's political beliefs extended to buying off whatever politicians he had to to try and swing things in his favour. Some areas that was Democrats, in others that was Republicans. As it happens, the big cities where he conducts much of his business are Democratic, hence his contributions leaning that way until he seized upon Obama's birth cert as a way to muscle on to the GOP presidential stage.

Which is irrelevant anyway - he won the election as and is governing as a far right Republican conspiracy theorist! They're the ones who hitched their wagon to the dangerous freakshow that is this insecure narcissistic attention whore. Nothing to do with the Democrats.

The f**k-ups at the IRS (the conclusions of the investigations into which are hopelessly mired in partisan spin, although all agree on very poor management) do not compare with agency after agency being headed by fox-guarding-the-henhouse types, even if you grant that that particular group was unfairly targeting tea party groups for extra scrutiny.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 01:02:45 PM


David Frum retweeted Glenn Kessler
A reminder : Trump White House statistics and other factual claims should be presumed false until independently verified.
Glenn Kessler  New #FactChecker: The number of people affected by Trump's travel ban: about 90,000


KellyAnnLiar said 300 people were affected by the EO
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 01:06:22 PM
http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.ch/2014/05/fascism-i-sometimes-fear.html

Fascism: I sometimes fear...

I sometimes fear that 
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress 
worn by grotesques and monsters 
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis. 

Fascism arrives as your friend. 
It will restore your honour, 
make you feel proud, 
protect your house, 
give you a job, 
clean up the neighbourhood, 
remind you of how great you once were, 
clear out the venal and the corrupt, 
remove anything you feel is unlike you...

It doesn't walk in saying, 
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 31, 2017, 01:18:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: stew on January 31, 2017, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 12:02:37 PM
Quote from: stew on January 30, 2017, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
It was not thought through correctly at all.

Instead of saying "from now all applications for green cards/visas from these certain countries will not be given consideration for 120 days" he just banned everyone from those countries so people who have been granted green cards and visas were fucked when they landed at the airport and still will be as far as I can see?

It's a total clusterfuck and the first of many... but hey let's give him a chance  ::)

I have that useless f**ker Obama a chance, everyone deserves a chance, I would even have given that tur d Clinton a chance, but not you, I don't think itcwoukd have mattered who won the Republican primary, many on here would have given mine of them a chance.

That's all well and good stew, but Obama didn't (and Clinton wouldn't have) base their direction and decisions on conspiracy theories and bullshit and blatant, bald-faced lying. He's made his own bed.

But go ahead, tell us how the inauguration attendance, the stranding of and separation of families at airport, the evidence-free claims of voter fraud, the Comical Ali press secretary, the turning our backs on refugees due to their religion, the replacement of professional national security/military people with Bannon on the NSC, the nomination of numerous people with contempt for the missions of various agencies to lead said agencies, and so on and on, is worthy of our understanding.

I DO NOT LIKE TRUMP!

There is enough shit Obama did to keep you going for a while, I have always maintained Trump was a Democrat, as I said many times follow the money.

I believe he is a one term President, he Will do some good and will do a lot wrong.

You speak of agencies, one such agency targeted Republicans and had them audited, then had to apologise when they were caught, the media is overwhelmingly liberal and any candidate other than Clinton had run the Democrats would be in the White house not Trump.

If YOU DON"T LIKE TRUMP, why are you getting your knickers in a twist about the justified criticism of him that is taking place here?

And seriously, drop the "Trump is a Democrat" bullshit. Its been pointed out to you multiple times that Trump's political beliefs extended to buying off whatever politicians he had to to try and swing things in his favour. Some areas that was Democrats, in others that was Republicans. As it happens, the big cities where he conducts much of his business are Democratic, hence his contributions leaning that way until he seized upon Obama's birth cert as a way to muscle on to the GOP presidential stage.

Which is irrelevant anyway - he won the election as and is governing as a far right Republican conspiracy theorist! They're the ones who hitched their wagon to the dangerous freakshow that is this insecure narcissistic attention whore. Nothing to do with the Democrats.

The f**k-ups at the IRS (the conclusions of the investigations into which are hopelessly mired in partisan spin, although all agree on very poor management) do not compare with agency after agency being headed by fox-guarding-the-henhouse types, even if you grant that that particular group was unfairly targeting tea party groups for extra scrutiny.

Calm down dear, I do not like Trump, like many liberals I thought he was very entertaining when he blew up the norm in politics, it was fascinating stuff, when he got elected I believe I posted that we all lost, I should have been bouncing off the walls with happiness that Clinton lost, I wasn't, I said we all lost and we have.

A man got knocked unconscious in Portland Airport for being a Trump supporter, a mob abused him before a coward hit him from out of the crowd, you have red neck right wing arseholes spewing racist hate thinking you can get away with it now because Trump is President.

The liberals are in a wonderful state of dysfunction, the republicans are dealing with Trump and trying to feel him out, I believe Paul Ryan will steady that ship, the dems are rudderless, they have their wee attack dog from Massachusetts going after Trump nominees, you know the one who lied about her ethnicity to get into college, Clinton is a pariah after the election and politically dead and Pelosi is a nut job and has no future either.

The democrats lost this election through laziness and arrogance, not to mention cheating, you don't screw Bernie and he would be sitting in the White house, you got what you deserves in Clinton and the republicans got fucked by Trump, everybody loses.

I don't stick up for Trump, it's more that I despise the left wing constant attacking, the constant Hitler references and the abject bias of the media stateside, I am sick to my back teeth of listening and reading their bile, I wanted Trump to get a fair shake, he never will and so far he seems to break more laws than Obama did.

I think a war is coming withing the Republican party, Ryan will take so much and Trump can't help himself, he just can't.

The democrats need to regroup and analyse what happened, they need to find themselves a leader or leaders with a common purpose and a message that is clear, concise and one that speaks not only to the base, but to the most important voters oftentimes, the undecided voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 31, 2017, 01:22:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 01:06:22 PM
http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.ch/2014/05/fascism-i-sometimes-fear.html

Fascism: I sometimes fear...

I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.

Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you...

It doesn't walk in saying,
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

Stop with the fascism bullshit and wise up!

Fascists will never run the USA, you people are deluded if you think fascism will take in the States.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2017, 01:23:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 12:41:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 31, 2017, 11:54:31 AM


Quote from: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
This is a very, very disturbing article.


The bit at the end of it is only opinion, but Andrew Sullivan (who is a writer I really respect) has consistently maintained Trump wants to run the US like Putin runs Russia, most specifically for his own personal enrichment, and the pieces are starting to fall into place.


This is real fascism and a real threat to democracy. It's one of the greatest con jobs of all time.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.fll4kgamn (https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.fll4kgamn)

In case anybody missed it, here's another article (https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/what-things-going-wrong-can-look-like-400f84a0cc3a#.qof60pitj) referenced by Zunger in that piece.

Andrew Sullivan, as you say, has also been writing on this theme – this is an absorbing read (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html).

Also Tobias Stone (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html) and Robert Kagan (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b&utm_term=.0656ab434b31).

I've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though? We're already knocking out the room partitions to accommodate the elephant.

(Note to the Trump cabal here – compare this restraint with the batshit lunatic claims of the alt-right about all things liberal.)

The "alt-right" (far right), ironically, share no such reluctance with branding things they dislike as "Nazi" or "facist".

Hence nonsense like "feminazis", "Liberal fascism" "the tyranny of political correctness" and Trump comparing the media, his intelligence services and John McCain to "something out of Nazi Germany".

And sometimes, the exact same people who complain about genuine and wholly accurate comparisons of the tactics of the current far right to fascism are the exact same people who regularly engage in frivolous ones themselves, such as Ian O'Doherty, who recently wrote an article lecturing people about comparing Trump to fascism, seemingly completely oblivious to his own regular references to feminists as "feminazis".

The question is - how do you confront real fascism, which is clearly in the ascendant both in the US and in much of Europe right now.

Facts and rational argument don't work, because followers of Trump, UKIP, Le Pen and all the rest have a cult-like belief in their righteousness and infallibility. They don't respond to facts or rational argument.

Violence would merely be counter-productive and play into the hands of the fascists.

In the end, it took a world war to confront and destroy the fascism of the 1930s.

The further and further away from that terrible time we move, the more people are destined to forget or be completely oblivious to the lessons of the 1930s, and the more the modern twist on those ideas seems to appeal to the vulnerable and the gullible.

I keep reading and hearing stuff like "Trump's opponent's simply don't understand what his appeal is, they just don't get it."

But that's clearly nonsense. We all know what his appeal is, and the techniques he uses. He uses the exact same tactics as the fascists of the 1930s used. That is to use his personal charisma to portray himself as a "strong man" - a cult-like leader. He also appeals to the power of the past and ingrained and inherited notions of privilege as a birthright.

It goes something like this: "You are now weak and oppressed, because of the "other". But if you follow me you will be strong and regain the privilege that your ancestors had, and which has been so unjustly denied to you. That privilege has been denied to you because of the "other."

Trump shouts loudest and at all points, blames "others", because in the right circumstances, nothing mobilises support like hatred does.

There is an inner bully and inner psychopath in all of us. It only takes the right (wrong) circumstances to unleash it. A civilised society depends on that inner bully and inner psychopath being suppressed. Thankfully most people can control it and keep it under wraps. The far right's tactic is to try to create the circumstances whereby the inner bully and inner psychopath in people is released. They do this by appealing to hatred.

The likes of Abu Hamza are rightly classed are purveyors of hate speech.

But Trump, Le Pen and Farage do exactly the same thing. They mobilise support by vilifying "others". The key is that they cloak it in just enough plausible deniability to deny that it is such. But the triggers that unleash the latent inner bullies of their followers are there in what they say.

And the logical results are incidents like what happened in Quebec on Sunday night, the Dylann Roof massacre in Carolina, and the murder of Jo Cox.

You mean femanazis like this keynote speaker at the Washington March???? (Can you imagine if she was a Trump supporter)

http://www.dailywire.com/news/12853/featured-womens-march-speaker-once-kidnapped-raped-amanda-prestigiacomo

"As reported by The Daily Caller's Peter Hasson on Thursday night: "Hylton, along with three men and three other women, kidnapped 62-year-old real-estate broker Thomas Vigliarolo and held him for ransom, before eventually killing him. As noted in a 1995 Psychology Today article, when asked about forcibly sodomizing the victim with a three foot steel pole, one of Hylton's accomplices replied: 'He was a homo anyway.'"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: stew on January 31, 2017, 01:22:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 01:06:22 PM
http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.ch/2014/05/fascism-i-sometimes-fear.html

Fascism: I sometimes fear...

I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.

Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you...

It doesn't walk in saying,
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

Stop with the fascism bullshit and wise up!

Fascists will never run the USA, you people are deluded if you think fascism will take in the States.
Why not, Stew? What is special about the US?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2017, 01:48:19 PM
Quote from: stew on January 31, 2017, 01:18:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: stew on January 31, 2017, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 12:02:37 PM
Quote from: stew on January 30, 2017, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 30, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
It was not thought through correctly at all.

Instead of saying "from now all applications for green cards/visas from these certain countries will not be given consideration for 120 days" he just banned everyone from those countries so people who have been granted green cards and visas were fucked when they landed at the airport and still will be as far as I can see?

It's a total clusterfuck and the first of many... but hey let's give him a chance  ::)

I have that useless f**ker Obama a chance, everyone deserves a chance, I would even have given that tur d Clinton a chance, but not you, I don't think itcwoukd have mattered who won the Republican primary, many on here would have given mine of them a chance.

That's all well and good stew, but Obama didn't (and Clinton wouldn't have) base their direction and decisions on conspiracy theories and bullshit and blatant, bald-faced lying. He's made his own bed.

But go ahead, tell us how the inauguration attendance, the stranding of and separation of families at airport, the evidence-free claims of voter fraud, the Comical Ali press secretary, the turning our backs on refugees due to their religion, the replacement of professional national security/military people with Bannon on the NSC, the nomination of numerous people with contempt for the missions of various agencies to lead said agencies, and so on and on, is worthy of our understanding.

I DO NOT LIKE TRUMP!

There is enough shit Obama did to keep you going for a while, I have always maintained Trump was a Democrat, as I said many times follow the money.

I believe he is a one term President, he Will do some good and will do a lot wrong.

You speak of agencies, one such agency targeted Republicans and had them audited, then had to apologise when they were caught, the media is overwhelmingly liberal and any candidate other than Clinton had run the Democrats would be in the White house not Trump.

If YOU DON"T LIKE TRUMP, why are you getting your knickers in a twist about the justified criticism of him that is taking place here?

And seriously, drop the "Trump is a Democrat" bullshit. Its been pointed out to you multiple times that Trump's political beliefs extended to buying off whatever politicians he had to to try and swing things in his favour. Some areas that was Democrats, in others that was Republicans. As it happens, the big cities where he conducts much of his business are Democratic, hence his contributions leaning that way until he seized upon Obama's birth cert as a way to muscle on to the GOP presidential stage.

Which is irrelevant anyway - he won the election as and is governing as a far right Republican conspiracy theorist! They're the ones who hitched their wagon to the dangerous freakshow that is this insecure narcissistic attention whore. Nothing to do with the Democrats.

The f**k-ups at the IRS (the conclusions of the investigations into which are hopelessly mired in partisan spin, although all agree on very poor management) do not compare with agency after agency being headed by fox-guarding-the-henhouse types, even if you grant that that particular group was unfairly targeting tea party groups for extra scrutiny.

Calm down dear, I do not like Trump, like many liberals I thought he was very entertaining when he blew up the norm in politics, it was fascinating stuff, when he got elected I believe I posted that we all lost, I should have been bouncing off the walls with happiness that Clinton lost, I wasn't, I said we all lost and we have.

A man got knocked unconscious in Portland Airport for being a Trump supporter, a mob abused him before a coward hit him from out of the crowd, you have red neck right wing arseholes spewing racist hate thinking you can get away with it now because Trump is President.

The liberals are in a wonderful state of dysfunction, the republicans are dealing with Trump and trying to feel him out, I believe Paul Ryan will steady that ship, the dems are rudderless, they have their wee attack dog from Massachusetts going after Trump nominees, you know the one who lied about her ethnicity to get into college, Clinton is a pariah after the election and politically dead and Pelosi is a nut job and has no future either.

The democrats lost this election through laziness and arrogance, not to mention cheating, you don't screw Bernie and he would be sitting in the White house, you got what you deserves in Clinton and the republicans got fucked by Trump, everybody loses.

I don't stick up for Trump, it's more that I despise the left wing constant attacking, the constant Hitler references and the abject bias of the media stateside, I am sick to my back teeth of listening and reading their bile, I wanted Trump to get a fair shake, he never will and so far he seems to break more laws than Obama did.

I think a war is coming withing the Republican party, Ryan will take so much and Trump can't help himself, he just can't.

The democrats need to regroup and analyse what happened, they need to find themselves a leader or leaders with a common purpose and a message that is clear, concise and one that speaks not only to the base, but to the most important voters oftentimes, the undecided voters.

Do you not see where the Hitler references are coming from?

I don't use that type of language myself, as its usually counter-productive, but the parallels with fascist tactics and rhetoric are there. as others have laid out in this thread. Now of course that doesn't mean that that terrible conclusion is even a remote possibility - for one, Trump is only interested in anti-Muslim (or any other) rhetoric or actions to the extent that it empowers HIM, not for any ideological reasons, and second, despite Trump and Bannon's wishes, there is simply no way they are going to be able to control the information and media in the way that strongmen authoritarian types have done elsewhere and in the past.

Further though, have you forgotten the Fox News/talk radio Obama-as-Hitler crusade?

Here's a reminder of the genius of Lewis Black on Glenn Beck and his Nazi comparisons: http://www.cc.com/video-clips/04rkt0/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-back-in-black---glenn-beck-s-nazi-tourette-s (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/04rkt0/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-back-in-black---glenn-beck-s-nazi-tourette-s)

As for the "abject bias" of the media - what are they supposed to do here? Allow Kelly Anne Conway to present her "alternative facts" unchallenged? Let Trump tweet blatant lies? Go the Fox News route and ignore the protests and chaos at the airports on Friday evening? NOT cover the fact that someone like Scott Pruit is extremely hostile to the mission of the EPA which he is being lined up to head?

Trump brings all this shit on himself. This is unprecedented territory.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 31, 2017, 01:52:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 01:23:18 PM
You mean femanazis like this keynote speaker at the Washington March? ??? (Can you imagine if she was a Trump supporter)

http://www.dailywire.com/news/12853/featured-womens-march-speaker-once-kidnapped-raped-amanda-prestigiacomo (http://www.dailywire.com/news/12853/featured-womens-march-speaker-once-kidnapped-raped-amanda-prestigiacomo)

"As reported by The Daily Caller's Peter Hasson on Thursday night: "Hylton, along with three men and three other women, kidnapped 62-year-old real-estate broker Thomas Vigliarolo and held him for ransom, before eventually killing him. As noted in a 1995 Psychology Today article, when asked about forcibly sodomizing the victim with a three foot steel pole, one of Hylton's accomplices replied: 'He was a homo anyway.'"

Whitey – You're not stupid. Unfortunately that points to the suggestion that you're dishonest. Your rebuttal of Sid's point is paragraph 1.1 of the alt-right manual of debate:

Your opponent says, for instance '11,000+ Americans every year are shot in the USA by other Americans'.

This is undeniable,, so your best response is diversion (note that logic or relevance are not a consideration). You say, 'A Frenchman was shot in France last month by another Frenchman'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Walter Cronc on January 31, 2017, 02:07:02 PM
Worth a watch.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07yjk0j/scotland-and-the-klan
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on January 31, 2017, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)

Looking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 02:32:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 12:31:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 30, 2017, 11:00:41 PM
Is it too late to nominate these two for this years Oscars for best lead actor/actress? What performances! The crocodile tears flowing touching the hearts of millions, a bit like that scene in Jerry Maguire.

"As the Statue of Liberty holds her torch of welcome high, there are tears in her eyes as she sees how low this Administration has stooped in its callousness toward mothers and children escaping war-torn Syria," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi,

"Tears are running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight as a grand tradition of America, welcoming immigrants, that has existed since America was founded has been stomped upon," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer,

Bravo! Take a bow.

I have seriously come to the conclusion that you don't actually believe any of the fascist bile that flows forth from your mouth. You've just adopted this uber-nationalist persona online to wind people up, haven't you?

Eamon pictured relaxing at home

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/90/4a/54/904a544c65be137dd0dd017d5059d765.jpg)

The frenzy by liberals isn't really about refugees - it's about being sore losers who will protest anything to do with President Trump. Beating up fellow US citizens in airports is really showing an evil side to them.

Which airports held protests when Obama stopped processing Iraqi refugees for 6 months in 2011? Where was the outrage at Obamas actions?

We have entered a phase of widespread narcissism thanks to the likes of Facebook where "protesters" think they are rebelling and standing up for human rights but really all they want is attention and likes on their profile. How many of the protesters would put these refugees up in their homes without question? Very few i'd imagine. It's all a show.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 31, 2017, 02:51:41 PM
QuoteLooking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.

The first four on the list to my mind Hound
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2017, 03:41:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 02:32:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 12:31:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 30, 2017, 11:00:41 PM
Is it too late to nominate these two for this years Oscars for best lead actor/actress? What performances! The crocodile tears flowing touching the hearts of millions, a bit like that scene in Jerry Maguire.

"As the Statue of Liberty holds her torch of welcome high, there are tears in her eyes as she sees how low this Administration has stooped in its callousness toward mothers and children escaping war-torn Syria," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi,

"Tears are running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight as a grand tradition of America, welcoming immigrants, that has existed since America was founded has been stomped upon," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer,

Bravo! Take a bow.

I have seriously come to the conclusion that you don't actually believe any of the fascist bile that flows forth from your mouth. You've just adopted this uber-nationalist persona online to wind people up, haven't you?

Eamon pictured relaxing at home

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/90/4a/54/904a544c65be137dd0dd017d5059d765.jpg)

The frenzy by liberals isn't really about refugees - it's about being sore losers who will protest anything to do with President Trump. Beating up fellow US citizens in airports is really showing an evil side to them.

Yes, because people are being beaten up in airports all over the US.

And the sore loser bit - THAT's why NYC taxi-drivers went on strike at JFK airport the other evening and huge numbers showed up there and around the country in solidarity. It was all about losing the election. It was NOTHING to do with their friends and relatives and people similar to themselves or their neighbours being caught up in a poorly thought through executive action. Thanks for clearing all that up for us.

Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 02:32:56 PM
Which airports held protests when Obama stopped processing Iraqi refugees for 6 months in 2011? Where was the outrage at Obamas actions?

Of course you leave out WHY Obama stopped the processing, which was in order to strengthen the screening before resumption after flags were raised about the system being abused by would-be terrorists. And of course, no refugees have since got through who have gone on to pose a terrorist threat. Its been working very nicely. He didn't do it to be seen to make good on a dubious campaign promise.

But Trump campaigned on the fact that the screening system WASN'T working, despite the evidence (familiar when it comes to Trump), so he had to stop it on a dime (even trying to do it last thing on Friday, when its traditionally the best time to release controversial news), throwing everything into chaos, without any consideration for the effects on the people involved, some of whom were at the end of a multi-year process to gain admission.

Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 02:32:56 PM
We have entered a phase of widespread narcissism thanks to the likes of Facebook where "protesters" think they are rebelling and standing up for human rights but really all they want is attention and likes on their profile. How many of the protesters would put these refugees up in their homes without question? Very few i'd imagine. It's all a show.

No doubt some people pay it lip service by posting it on their profile, but your second point is bullshit and irrelevant.

Just because one is not in a position to personally take in refugees does not mean that they can't support or demand a government effort to help them or they can't welcome them into their communities.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 03:56:20 PM
The Muslim ban is about limiting immigration and keeping a white majority
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 31, 2017, 04:02:49 PM
I can't believe that any Irish person can be defending that vile sc**bag c**t that is Trump.
I hear the British parliament unanimously passed a motion condemning his disgusting sectarian ban on Muslims. Wonder what his cheerleader May thinks of that!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 31, 2017, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)

Looking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.

1. "America First"
2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
3. See number 2
4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one - yes, unusual
5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
7. See numbers 2, 3, 4
8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.

If it walks like a duck, Hound.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 04:21:25 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 31, 2017, 04:25:39 PM
Sebastian Gorka, the Breitbart national security editor and a Fox News contributor, is expected to join President Donald Trump's White House, a source familiar with the matter told Business Insider.

The source said that the position is likely in the National Security Council. A Fox News spokesperson said the network terminated Gorka's contributor agreement when he informed executives of his new position.

Gorka, who has written stories for Breitbart since early 2014, was a founding member of the Council for Emerging National Security Affairs and has been awarded the Joint Civilian Service Commendation, according to a bio on his website. (He recently made his website private.) The national-security analyst is the author of "Defeating Jihad," a New York Times best-seller.

He was also the vice president for counterterrorism and irregular warfare at the Threat Knowledge Group, and he said in a July Breitbart story that he had written policy papers for Trump. He was paid by the campaign for policy consulting, according to Federal Election Commission filings.

Gorka's expected move to the National Security Council further represents Breitbart's expanding role inside the Trump White House.

The website's chairman, Stephen Bannon, served as Trump's campaign CEO and now works as White House chief strategist. On Sunday, it was reported that Julia Hahn, a hardline immigration writer for Breitbart, was also expected to join the Trump White House as a special assistant to the president.

Interestingly Gorka, who was arrested last year for attempting to board a plane with a handgun, will advise the president on counteracting terror threats.
On January 31, 2016, TSA agents arrested Gorka when he tried to board a plane at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport in Arlington, Virginia with a weapon in his carry-on bag. He pleaded guilty in August and will be sentenced in Arlington Circuit Court on Feb. 3.
Gorka declined requests for comment and his attorney, Chris Oprison, did not immediately respond to requests to discuss the case.
Under Virginia law, carrying a weapon into an airport terminal is a class one misdemeanor, which carries a maximum sentence of 12 months in jail and a fine of $2,500. Gorka will also be required to forfeit his weapon, a 9mm Browning handgun, according to police reports.
It's unclear if the charges also required him to revoke his security clearance, which would be necessary if he were to serve in the White House.

Neither Gorka nor the White House responded to multiple requests for comment. A spokesperson for Breitbart was also not immediately available for comment on Tuesday morning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM

Be well and keep safe everyone

Not if the liberals have their way. Turkeys voting for christmas holidays
They don't care about putting future generations in peril as long as they feel smug about their humanitarian efforts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM

Be well and keep safe everyone

Not if the liberals have their way. Turkeys voting for christmas holidays
They don't care about putting future generations in peril as long as they feel smug about their humanitarian efforts.

No doubt you have statistics and data to back that up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM

Be well and keep safe everyone

Not if the liberals have their way. Turkeys voting for christmas holidays
They don't care about putting future generations in peril as long as they feel smug about their humanitarian efforts.

No doubt you have statistics and data to back that up?

I will take no pleasure in years to come saying I told you so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: JoG2 on January 31, 2017, 04:59:01 PM
liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2017, 05:01:15 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 31, 2017, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)

Looking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.

1. "America First"
2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
3. See number 2
4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one - yes, unusual
5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
7. See numbers 2, 3, 4
8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.

If it walks like a duck, Hound.....

800 people murdered in Chicago in 2016.  52 killed already this year

I think "carnage " is a pretty accurate description
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2017, 05:11:00 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 04:25:39 PM
Sebastian Gorka, the Breitbart national security editor and a Fox News contributor, is expected to join President Donald Trump's White House, a source familiar with the matter told Business Insider.

The source said that the position is likely in the National Security Council. A Fox News spokesperson said the network terminated Gorka's contributor agreement when he informed executives of his new position.

Gorka, who has written stories for Breitbart since early 2014, was a founding member of the Council for Emerging National Security Affairs and has been awarded the Joint Civilian Service Commendation, according to a bio on his website. (He recently made his website private.) The national-security analyst is the author of "Defeating Jihad," a New York Times best-seller.

He was also the vice president for counterterrorism and irregular warfare at the Threat Knowledge Group, and he said in a July Breitbart story that he had written policy papers for Trump. He was paid by the campaign for policy consulting, according to Federal Election Commission filings.

Gorka's expected move to the National Security Council further represents Breitbart's expanding role inside the Trump White House.

The website's chairman, Stephen Bannon, served as Trump's campaign CEO and now works as White House chief strategist. On Sunday, it was reported that Julia Hahn, a hardline immigration writer for Breitbart, was also expected to join the Trump White House as a special assistant to the president.

Interestingly Gorka, who was arrested last year for attempting to board a plane with a handgun, will advise the president on counteracting terror threats.
On January 31, 2016, TSA agents arrested Gorka when he tried to board a plane at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport in Arlington, Virginia with a weapon in his carry-on bag. He pleaded guilty in August and will be sentenced in Arlington Circuit Court on Feb. 3.
Gorka declined requests for comment and his attorney, Chris Oprison, did not immediately respond to requests to discuss the case.
Under Virginia law, carrying a weapon into an airport terminal is a class one misdemeanor, which carries a maximum sentence of 12 months in jail and a fine of $2,500. Gorka will also be required to forfeit his weapon, a 9mm Browning handgun, according to police reports.
It's unclear if the charges also required him to revoke his security clearance, which would be necessary if he were to serve in the White House.

Neither Gorka nor the White House responded to multiple requests for comment. A spokesperson for Breitbart was also not immediately available for comment on Tuesday morning.

Whatever about his politics, he appears to have much more of a suitable background than Bannon for this kind of work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2017, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM

Be well and keep safe everyone

Not if the liberals have their way. Turkeys voting for christmas holidays
They don't care about putting future generations in peril as long as they feel smug about their humanitarian efforts.

No doubt you have statistics and data to back that up?

I will take no pleasure in years to come saying I told you so.

That's a no then.

But look, leaving aside the smart ass stuff, I've no problem with these refugees being put through a rigorous screening process. I don't see how anyone can, especially after what happened with the lads who returned to Belgium from Syria and carried out the Paris attacks and so on. But that screening is already happening. Its not like Trump hit the transition or even the intelligence briefings last summer and said that the system was a mess. He's been on about this for 18 months, purely as a way to raise support for his campaign.

The biggest threats to US citizens, by far, as from other US citizens, and even among those, muslim terrorism is an extremely small threat.

But mass shootings and even lone shootings are simply accepted as a fact of life, a background contributer to everyday life and death in the US. The risk to the average person from muslim terrorism in the US is way, way overblown compared to what the real threats are.

People just don't have any understanding of the concept of risk.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 31, 2017, 06:32:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM

Be well and keep safe everyone

Not if the liberals have their way. Turkeys voting for christmas holidays
They don't care about putting future generations in peril as long as they feel smug about their humanitarian efforts.

No doubt you have statistics and data to back that up?

I will take no pleasure in years to come saying I told you so.

That's a no then.

But look, leaving aside the smart ass stuff, I've no problem with these refugees being put through a rigorous screening process. I don't see how anyone can, especially after what happened with the lads who returned to Belgium from Syria and carried out the Paris attacks and so on. But that screening is already happening. Its not like Trump hit the transition or even the intelligence briefings last summer and said that the system was a mess. He's been on about this for 18 months, purely as a way to raise support for his campaign.

The biggest threats to US citizens, by far, as from other US citizens, and even among those, muslim terrorism is an extremely small threat.

But mass shootings and even lone shootings are simply accepted as a fact of life, a background contributer to everyday life and death in the US. The risk to the average person from muslim terrorism in the US is way, way overblown compared to what the real threats are.

People just don't have any understanding of the concept of risk.

I think I read twice as many Americans are killed by lightening strikes, the risk is minuscule.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 07:02:15 PM
It is not about terrorism.  Bannon wants to cut immigration for a permanent white majority
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 07:18:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 05:01:15 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 31, 2017, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)

Looking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.

1. "America First"
2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
3. See number 2
4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one - yes, unusual
5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
7. See numbers 2, 3, 4
8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.

If it walks like a duck, Hound.....

800 people murdered in Chicago in 2016.  52 killed already this year

I think "carnage " is a pretty accurate description

Perhaps in Chicago. As you well know, Chicago is a complete outlier to all other major American cities (746 by the way killed, but what is 54 people between friends? Or accuracy?) which have been on a downward decline for the past ten years (before levelling last year) and are still at historic lows.

And even Chicago's current murder rate, which exploded last year, is still below what happened there in the early to mid 90s. Chicago has a peculiar set of circumstances, which seem to be driving the murder rate, but of course focusing on the exception rather than the rule is the surest way of driving fear and ignorance - which helps Trump. So you either know that, and are a cynical pro Trump troll, or you're the idiot at the table.

Take your pick. And keep it up. You know what they say - character is destiny.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 07:23:07 PM
Conservatives like Chicago when talking about crime for the same they like temperatures in 1998 when talking about climate change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 31, 2017, 07:25:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 07:02:15 PM
It is not about terrorism.  Bannon wants to cut immigration for a permanent white majority

Too late for that, you only have to look at the demographics of 3 of the 4 (maybe even all 4) most populated states to see that non-hispanic whites are either no longer a majority or heading that way, or in the case of the largest state, no longer the largest minority.

A Look at the age profile and birth rate by ethnicity to see where the trend is going. It seems to me a lot of whites see children as expensive and annoying and dont have them.

This is the case even if all immigration stops tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM

Be well and keep safe everyone

Not if the liberals have their way. Turkeys voting for christmas holidays
They don't care about putting future generations in peril as long as they feel smug about their humanitarian efforts.

I stopped reading at "liberals"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2017, 07:57:35 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 07:18:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 05:01:15 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 31, 2017, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)

Looking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.

1. "America First"
2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
3. See number 2
4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one - yes, unusual
5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
7. See numbers 2, 3, 4
8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.

If it walks like a duck, Hound.....

800 people murdered in Chicago in 2016.  52 killed already this year

I think "carnage " is a pretty accurate description

Perhaps in Chicago. As you well know, Chicago is a complete outlier to all other major American cities (746 by the way killed, but what is 54 people between friends? Or accuracy?) which have been on a downward decline for the past ten years (before levelling last year) and are still at historic lows.

And even Chicago's current murder rate, which exploded last year, is still below what happened there in the early to mid 90s. Chicago has a peculiar set of circumstances, which seem to be driving the murder rate, but of course focusing on the exception rather than the rule is the surest way of driving fear and ignorance - which helps Trump. So you either know that, and are a cynical pro Trump troll, or you're the idiot at the table.

Take your pick. And keep it up. You know what they say - character is destiny.

Haha...you have no problems with outliers when it suits your cause....ie Californias population
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 08:04:43 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/trump-administration-jobs/514805/

So what is a patriotic American who's been asked to serve to do? A few suggestions.
A law-abiding person will want to stay as far as possible from the personal service of President Trump. As demonstrated by the sad example of Press Secretary Sean Spicer spouting glaring lies on his first day on the job, this president will demand that his aides do improper things—and the low standards of integrity in Trump's entourage create a culture of conformity to those demands.

A wise patriot might be wary of working directly for or near Flynn or anybody else tied to the Russian state, the entities it controls, or Russian business interests. The National Security Council staff has engorged itself to such an enormous size in recent years—now some 400 people—that there are many important roles to fill, safely firewalled away from Flynn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 31, 2017, 08:05:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM

Be well and keep safe everyone

Not if the liberals have their way. Turkeys voting for christmas holidays
They don't care about putting future generations in peril as long as they feel smug about their humanitarian efforts.

No doubt you have statistics and data to back that up?

I will take no pleasure in years to come saying I told you so.

That's a no then.

But look, leaving aside the smart ass stuff, I've no problem with these refugees being put through a rigorous screening process. I don't see how anyone can, especially after what happened with the lads who returned to Belgium from Syria and carried out the Paris attacks and so on. But that screening is already happening. Its not like Trump hit the transition or even the intelligence briefings last summer and said that the system was a mess. He's been on about this for 18 months, purely as a way to raise support for his campaign.

The biggest threats to US citizens, by far, as from other US citizens, and even among those, muslim terrorism is an extremely small threat.

But mass shootings and even lone shootings are simply accepted as a fact of life, a background contributer to everyday life and death in the US. The risk to the average person from muslim terrorism in the US is way, way overblown compared to what the real threats are.

People just don't have any understanding of the concept of risk.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2016-09-01-1472759565-493250-extreme_extreme_vetting.jpg (http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2016-09-01-1472759565-493250-extreme_extreme_vetting.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 07:57:35 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 07:18:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 05:01:15 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 31, 2017, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)

Looking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.

1. "America First"
2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
3. See number 2
4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one - yes, unusual
5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
7. See numbers 2, 3, 4
8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.

If it walks like a duck, Hound.....

800 people murdered in Chicago in 2016.  52 killed already this year

I think "carnage " is a pretty accurate description

Perhaps in Chicago. As you well know, Chicago is a complete outlier to all other major American cities (746 by the way killed, but what is 54 people between friends? Or accuracy?) which have been on a downward decline for the past ten years (before levelling last year) and are still at historic lows.

And even Chicago's current murder rate, which exploded last year, is still below what happened there in the early to mid 90s. Chicago has a peculiar set of circumstances, which seem to be driving the murder rate, but of course focusing on the exception rather than the rule is the surest way of driving fear and ignorance - which helps Trump. So you either know that, and are a cynical pro Trump troll, or you're the idiot at the table.

Take your pick. And keep it up. You know what they say - character is destiny.

Haha...you have no problems with outliers when it suits your cause....ie Californias population
Haha- please quote where I ever made that argument. (Spoiler alert- I never did)

But if I did, I would say the classic liberal argument is that California's population should not be considered an outlier, that it should be considered merely as part of a national collective if the EC was abolished, and if that was the case, a vote in California would be worth exactly the same as a vote anywhere else in the US. Which is exactly the opposite of an outlier.

Guess we settled the argument on whether you are a troll or an idiot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2017, 08:27:07 PM
No need to resort to insults.  My opinions are just as valid as yours....that's what one does on a discussion board...offer opinions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
What is wrong with looking after your own. How many here would take a refugee or a stranger into their home. Hypocrite s the lot. Discussion board warrior's Hardy and J70 two biggest shit talkers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:10:08 PM
Be careful lads the liberals dont like it up them. I have received a warning for posting offensive material this in a board where folk can slander parents of child abuse victims without rebuke. The watsup gang must be colluding.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
What is wrong with looking after your own. How many here would take a refugee or a stranger into their home. Hypocrite s the lot. Discussion board warrior's Hardy and J70 two biggest shit talkers.

And as usual all you can do is throw insults around instead of addressing actual points. :-*

Carry on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
What is wrong with looking after your own. How many here would take a refugee or a stranger into their home. Hypocrite s the lot. Discussion board warrior's Hardy and J70 two biggest shit talkers.

And as usual all you can do is throw insults around instead of addressing actual points. :-*

Carry on.

You are unreal read back kid you are the mastet of personal insults. So would you take a refugee into your home,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 09:16:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2017, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM

Be well and keep safe everyone

Not if the liberals have their way. Turkeys voting for christmas holidays
They don't care about putting future generations in peril as long as they feel smug about their humanitarian efforts.

I stopped reading at "liberals"

That's a shame - the smug bit was for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
What is wrong with looking after your own. How many here would take a refugee or a stranger into their home. Hypocrite s the lot. Discussion board warrior's Hardy and J70 two biggest shit talkers.

And as usual all you can do is throw insults around instead of addressing actual points. :-*

Carry on.

You are unreal read back kid you are the mastet of personal insults. So would you take a refugee into your home,

Yeah, but I address the arguments first and foremost. You do only the insults.

As for personally taking someone into my home, I'm not in a position to take anyone into my home. But I'm perfectly happy to support politicians who want to help and pay extra taxes/make charitable contributions to support government programmes and NGOs, you know, professional outfits that are actually trained and equipped to deal with this stuff. The idea that its either personally take people into your own home or shut the f**k up is just simplistic, idiotic nonsense meant to shut down debate because you don't want to hear that we should be helping them out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on January 31, 2017, 10:36:28 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 31, 2017, 06:32:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 31, 2017, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2017, 11:37:47 PM

Be well and keep safe everyone

Not if the liberals have their way. Turkeys voting for christmas holidays
They don't care about putting future generations in peril as long as they feel smug about their humanitarian efforts.

No doubt you have statistics and data to back that up?

I will take no pleasure in years to come saying I told you so.

That's a no then.

But look, leaving aside the smart ass stuff, I've no problem with these refugees being put through a rigorous screening process. I don't see how anyone can, especially after what happened with the lads who returned to Belgium from Syria and carried out the Paris attacks and so on. But that screening is already happening. Its not like Trump hit the transition or even the intelligence briefings last summer and said that the system was a mess. He's been on about this for 18 months, purely as a way to raise support for his campaign.

The biggest threats to US citizens, by far, as from other US citizens, and even among those, muslim terrorism is an extremely small threat.

But mass shootings and even lone shootings are simply accepted as a fact of life, a background contributer to everyday life and death in the US. The risk to the average person from muslim terrorism in the US is way, way overblown compared to what the real threats are.

People just don't have any understanding of the concept of risk.

I think I read twice as many Americans are killed by lightening strikes, the risk is minuscule.

Spot on. The threat of terrorism globally is vastly overestimated, it's all about creating an enemy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on January 31, 2017, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
What is wrong with looking after your own. How many here would take a refugee or a stranger into their home. Hypocrite s the lot. Discussion board warrior's Hardy and J70 two biggest shit talkers.

And as usual all you can do is throw insults around instead of addressing actual points. :-*

Carry on.

You are unreal read back kid you are the mastet of personal insults. So would you take a refugee into your home,

Yeah, but I address the arguments first and foremost. You do only the insults.

As for personally taking someone into my home, I'm not in a position to take anyone into my home. But I'm perfectly happy to support politicians who want to help and pay extra taxes/make charitable contributions to support government programmes and NGOs, you know, professional outfits that are actually trained and equipped to deal with this stuff. The idea that its either personally take people into your own home or shut the f**k up is just simplistic, idiotic nonsense meant to shut down debate because you don't want to hear that we should be helping them out.

What training do citizens get to deal with refugees?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 11:51:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 31, 2017, 07:25:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 07:02:15 PM
It is not about terrorism.  Bannon wants to cut immigration for a permanent white majority

Too late for that, you only have to look at the demographics of 3 of the 4 (maybe even all 4) most populated states to see that non-hispanic whites are either no longer a majority or heading that way, or in the case of the largest state, no longer the largest minority.

A Look at the age profile and birth rate by ethnicity to see where the trend is going. It seems to me a lot of whites see children as expensive and annoying and dont have them.

This is the case even if all immigration stops tomorrow.
It will not be a bad thing for the US when whites are a minority.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 11:56:14 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
What is wrong with looking after your own. How many here would take a refugee or a stranger into their home. Hypocrite s the lot. Discussion board warrior's Hardy and J70 two biggest shit talkers.

And as usual all you can do is throw insults around instead of addressing actual points. :-*

Carry on.

You are unreal read back kid you are the mastet of personal insults. So would you take a refugee into your home,

Yeah, but I address the arguments first and foremost. You do only the insults.

As for personally taking someone into my home, I'm not in a position to take anyone into my home. But I'm perfectly happy to support politicians who want to help and pay extra taxes/make charitable contributions to support government programmes and NGOs, you know, professional outfits that are actually trained and equipped to deal with this stuff. The idea that its either personally take people into your own home or shut the f**k up is just simplistic, idiotic nonsense meant to shut down debate because you don't want to hear that we should be helping them out.

What training do citizens get to deal with refugees?
One would hope that you will get some sort of training soon. Not specifically to deal with refugees, just to merely deal with people in general.  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 01, 2017, 12:37:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 11:51:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 31, 2017, 07:25:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 07:02:15 PM
It is not about terrorism.  Bannon wants to cut immigration for a permanent white majority

Too late for that, you only have to look at the demographics of 3 of the 4 (maybe even all 4) most populated states to see that non-hispanic whites are either no longer a majority or heading that way, or in the case of the largest state, no longer the largest minority.

A Look at the age profile and birth rate by ethnicity to see where the trend is going. It seems to me a lot of whites see children as expensive and annoying and dont have them.

This is the case even if all immigration stops tomorrow.
It will not be a bad thing for the US when whites are a minority.

Racist statement there.

In short, when white people are in the minority we will basically be a one party State liberal state. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 01, 2017, 12:40:49 AM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:10:08 PM
Be careful lads the liberals dont like it up them. I have received a warning for posting offensive material this in a board where folk can slander parents of child abuse victims without rebuke. The watsup gang must be colluding.

Really, ffs!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 01, 2017, 12:47:00 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 07:57:35 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 07:18:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 05:01:15 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 31, 2017, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)

Looking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.

1. "America First"
2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
3. See number 2
4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one - yes, unusual
5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
7. See numbers 2, 3, 4
8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.

If it walks like a duck, Hound.....

800 people murdered in Chicago in 2016.  52 killed already this year

I think "carnage " is a pretty accurate description

Perhaps in Chicago. As you well know, Chicago is a complete outlier to all other major American cities (746 by the way killed, but what is 54 people between friends? Or accuracy?) which have been on a downward decline for the past ten years (before levelling last year) and are still at historic lows.

And even Chicago's current murder rate, which exploded last year, is still below what happened there in the early to mid 90s. Chicago has a peculiar set of circumstances, which seem to be driving the murder rate, but of course focusing on the exception rather than the rule is the surest way of driving fear and ignorance - which helps Trump. So you either know that, and are a cynical pro Trump troll, or you're the idiot at the table.

Take your pick. And keep it up. You know what they say - character is destiny.

Haha...you have no problems with outliers when it suits your cause....ie Californias population
Haha- please quote where I ever made that argument. (Spoiler alert- I never did)

But if I did, I would say the classic liberal argument is that California's population should not be considered an outlier, that it should be considered merely as part of a national collective if the EC was abolished, and if that was the case, a vote in California would be worth exactly the same as a vote anywhere else in the US. Which is exactly the opposite of an outlier.

Guess we settled the argument on whether you are a troll or an idiot.

Go away with that fascism shite, it is annoying, stupid and ignorant of you and the other morons whp [pst it, a lot of those points could have been owned by Clinton you tubes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 01:18:48 AM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2017, 12:37:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 31, 2017, 11:51:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 31, 2017, 07:25:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2017, 07:02:15 PM
It is not about terrorism.  Bannon wants to cut immigration for a permanent white majority

Too late for that, you only have to look at the demographics of 3 of the 4 (maybe even all 4) most populated states to see that non-hispanic whites are either no longer a majority or heading that way, or in the case of the largest state, no longer the largest minority.

A Look at the age profile and birth rate by ethnicity to see where the trend is going. It seems to me a lot of whites see children as expensive and annoying and dont have them.

This is the case even if all immigration stops tomorrow.
It will not be a bad thing for the US when whites are a minority.

Racist statement there.

In short, when white people are in the minority we will basically be a one party State liberal state.

Really?  ;D

In what way is it racist, clever clogs?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 01, 2017, 02:39:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 08:27:07 PM
No need to resort to insults.  My opinions are just as valid as yours....that's what one does on a discussion board...offer opinions

Nope not true. You are as entitled to your opinion as anyone.

That sure as shit doesn't make it valid.

Fair and balanced means one thing. Offering creationism as a valid counter to evolution is not fair and balanced it means giving the lie as much air time as the truth.

And so here we are. Truth is no longer relevant in political discussion because people think their feelings and opinions are valid. Alternative facts are lies. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 01, 2017, 03:30:49 AM
Come on Armagh  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 01, 2017, 04:10:45 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 01, 2017, 02:39:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 08:27:07 PM
No need to resort to insults.  My opinions are just as valid as yours....that's what one does on a discussion board...offer opinions

Nope not true. You are as entitled to your opinion as anyone.

That sure as shit doesn't make it valid.

Fair and balanced means one thing. Offering creationism as a valid counter to evolution is not fair and balanced it means giving the lie as much air time as the truth.

And so here we are. Truth is no longer relevant in political discussion because people think their feelings and opinions are valid. Alternative facts are lies.

So it's your OPINION that my opinions aren't valid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 01, 2017, 04:43:01 AM
Jaysus Whitey- of all things I'll defend your right to have and to express an opinion to the hilt. Freedom of speech and all that.

Just remember: factually speaking, there's a quare difference between an opinion, and a valid opinion.


you let me know which of your opinions, if any, that you think are valid, and sure then we can discuss them on their merits, not on how emotionally attached you are to them, or how they validate who you are as a person. Actually on their merits, you know with things like Science, and Mathematics and Data, not conjecture or gut feelings or beliefs.

As a pointer before you or if you begin, (and in case Seamus wants in on this) I mean actual Science and actual mathematics and actual data, not tinfoil hat websites, or editorials, nor quoted numbers. I want sourced data. Nor do I count extremely credible sources who call your office about birth certificates. Also for me the Fed is a legit source, politicians are not.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 01, 2017, 04:44:21 AM
Mr. Whitey , Heganboy is just saying that your opinions are based on nothing based in fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 05:46:46 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 01, 2017, 04:43:01 AM
Jaysus Whitey- of all things I'll defend your right to have and to express an opinion to the hilt. Freedom of speech and all that.

Just remember: factually speaking, there's a quare difference between an opinion, and a valid opinion.


you let me know which of your opinions, if any, that you think are valid, and sure then we can discuss them on their merits, not on how emotionally attached you are to them, or how they validate who you are as a person. Actually on their merits, you know with things like Science, and Mathematics and Data, not conjecture or gut feelings or beliefs.

As a pointer before you or if you begin, (and in case Seamus wants in on this) I mean actual Science and actual mathematics and actual data, not tinfoil hat websites, or editorials, nor quoted numbers. I want sourced data. Nor do I count extremely credible sources who call your office about birth certificates. Also for me the Fed is a legit source, politicians are not.
Heganboy
The Fed is a genuine institution but its remit is financial so it doesn't necessarily deal in facts.  Bernanke promised rate rises in a 2013 speech and the dollar rose 20%.  In 2016 he admitted he was wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 01, 2017, 06:28:48 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 01, 2017, 04:43:01 AM
Jaysus Whitey- of all things I'll defend your right to have and to express an opinion to the hilt. Freedom of speech and all that.

Just remember: factually speaking, there's a quare difference between an opinion, and a valid opinion.


you let me know which of your opinions, if any, that you think are valid, and sure then we can discuss them on their merits, not on how emotionally attached you are to them, or how they validate who you are as a person. Actually on their merits, you know with things like Science, and Mathematics and Data, not conjecture or gut feelings or beliefs.

As a pointer before you or if you begin, (and in case Seamus wants in on this) I mean actual Science and actual mathematics and actual data, not tinfoil hat websites, or editorials, nor quoted numbers. I want sourced data. Nor do I count extremely credible sources who call your office about birth certificates. Also for me the Fed is a legit source, politicians are not.

Heganboy you maybe have a look into epistemology.
Also maybe you should look into the roots of mathematics and where it comes from.
Then maybe have a look into the philosophy of science and in particular the induction problem

You'll very quickly discover that ALL opinions are based on a series of assumptions.

How maths and science form the basis of a political opinion is also beyond me. Political opinion is based on morals/values which are nothing to do with either maths or science and are in fact purely subjective.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 01, 2017, 07:45:19 AM
Jerry Falwell Jr. asked to lead Trump education task force - You couldn't make this up

Falwell says the earth is 6,000 years old and blamed 9/11 on gay people. This is the level of stupid you are being asked to tolerate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 07:48:17 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 01, 2017, 07:45:19 AM
Jerry Falwell Jr. asked to lead Trump education task force - You couldn't make this up

Falwell says the earth is 6,000 years old and blamed 9/11 on gay people. This is the level of stupid you are being asked to tolerate.
De vos is just as bad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on February 01, 2017, 08:01:19 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 31, 2017, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)

Looking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.


If it walks like a duck, Hound.....

I asked for an objective analysis easytiger!

1. "America First"
- Absolutely. Big deal in my opinion that a prime minister/president will put his own country's interests first.

2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
- It's not a human right to be allowed to enter any country you want, so the ban is not a breach of human rights. Sure, the prevention of entry of the people who had already secured visas was wrong, but again the media headlines has all the details about the hassle, but very little about the fact that most of those were eventually let in.
- He probably hasn't committed torture yet, unlike most past US presidents since WWII, and many other leaders of countries all over the world. He said he believes "torture works". Well it's been used as an interrogation technique for thousands of years, so it probably often does work.

4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one yes, unusual
- Just typical Republican nominations

5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
- Typical powerful man. See Clinton.

6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
- Clearly he has not and cannot accomplish "controlled mass media".

8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
- There's no way anyone could objectively argue that under Trump "Religion and Government is intertwined".
- Throwing in "anti-semistim" is typical hyperbole of some who are searching for reasons to label Trump as some sort of antichrist figure

9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
- "Corporate Power protected" is something that could be thrown at every US president since JFK. Not sure how that is a facist tendancy, as it's common in the western world

10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
- It seems 100% clear that he treated low level employees miserably throughout his career. But he turned that all around in his election promises and managed to convince a significant amount of low paid workers that he's the answer to their problems and he'll bring jobs back to the USA.

11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
- Meryl's hardly an intelletcual. I read every single Republican candidate's profile early on in the election campaign. Every one of them said climate change is a hoax. Idiots. But that's the market share they're chasing.

12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
- Agreed. He said he'd do it, now he's going to try and do it. Not the first US politician to try it

13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
- Rampant croneyism is a feature of every US president, in terms of making his appointments. No evidence of corruption, although we can be sure he's not whiter than white, but enough to make his a fascist.

14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.
- He's been involved in no fraudulent elections.


Very few on here seem to be able to view Trump objectively. I certainly would have voted for Hillary, but Trump is entitled to govern the US as he said he would in his mandate. His proposed US tax reforms will be really bad for me personally, so I'd love it if he did something out of bounds and was impeached. But he's not going to turn into a Fascist Dictator :)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on February 01, 2017, 08:06:49 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 01, 2017, 07:45:19 AM
Jerry Falwell Jr. asked to lead Trump education task force - You couldn't make this up

Falwell says the earth is 6,000 years old and blamed 9/11 on gay people. This is the level of stupid you are being asked to tolerate.
He's a typical Republican religious nut-ball.
Have you got any links on the 9/11 accusation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 08:28:44 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 01, 2017, 08:01:19 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 31, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 31, 2017, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 31, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
QuoteI've been surprised, though, ever since the emergence of Trump and his campaign tactics, that, in general, the much maligned mainstream media appears to be avoiding reference to the similarities between the Trump movement and the fascist movements of the 1930s.

It can hardly be that they've failed to notice. I suppose it's editorial judgement. It would be all too easy for the alt-right to scream about hysteria and ridicule any comparisons with Nazism or Italian fascism. How long can it be, though?


This is the poster which hangs at the US Holocaust Museum - given the statement issued by El Presidente on National Holocaust Day this week that failed to mention the Jewish people handy to remind ourselves

(https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/31/08/facism.jpg)

Looking at it objectively (if that's possible on this forum), how many of those Fascim traits listed has Trump exhibited since he was elected (and that wasn't exhibited by say Bush II or Clinton)?
We're getting a bit hysterical I think.


If it walks like a duck, Hound.....

I asked for an objective analysis easytiger!

1. "America First"
- Absolutely. Big deal in my opinion that a prime minister/president will put his own country's interests first.

2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
- It's not a human right to be allowed to enter any country you want, so the ban is not a breach of human rights. Sure, the prevention of entry of the people who had already secured visas was wrong, but again the media headlines has all the details about the hassle, but very little about the fact that most of those were eventually let in.
- He probably hasn't committed torture yet, unlike most past US presidents since WWII, and many other leaders of countries all over the world. He said he believes "torture works". Well it's been used as an interrogation technique for thousands of years, so it probably often does work.

4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one yes, unusual
- Just typical Republican nominations

5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
- Typical powerful man. See Clinton.

6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
- Clearly he has not and cannot accomplish "controlled mass media".

8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
- There's no way anyone could objectively argue that under Trump "Religion and Government is intertwined".
- Throwing in "anti-semistim" is typical hyperbole of some who are searching for reasons to label Trump as some sort of antichrist figure

9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
- "Corporate Power protected" is something that could be thrown at every US president since JFK. Not sure how that is a facist tendancy, as it's common in the western world

10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
- It seems 100% clear that he treated low level employees miserably throughout his career. But he turned that all around in his election promises and managed to convince a significant amount of low paid workers that he's the answer to their problems and he'll bring jobs back to the USA.

11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
- Meryl's hardly an intelletcual. I read every single Republican candidate's profile early on in the election campaign. Every one of them said climate change is a hoax. Idiots. But that's the market share they're chasing.

12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
- Agreed. He said he'd do it, now he's going to try and do it. Not the first US politician to try it

13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
- Rampant croneyism is a feature of every US president, in terms of making his appointments. No evidence of corruption, although we can be sure he's not whiter than white, but enough to make his a fascist.

14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.
- He's been involved in no fraudulent elections.


Very few on here seem to be able to view Trump objectively. I certainly would have voted for Hillary, but Trump is entitled to govern the US as he said he would in his mandate. His proposed US tax reforms will be really bad for me personally, so I'd love it if he did something out of bounds and was impeached. But he's not going to turn into a Fascist Dictator :)
The fascism list is incomplete because it is missing the economic context of a failed pro capital system which was the case in the 30s and  is also the case now. Bannon can do Goebbels.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on February 01, 2017, 08:48:57 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 01, 2017, 07:45:19 AM
Jerry Falwell Jr. asked to lead Trump education task force - You couldn't make this up

Falwell says the earth is 6,000 years old and blamed 9/11 on gay people. This is the level of stupid you are being asked to tolerate.

With this pick, Trump University will be up and running again in no time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 01, 2017, 09:19:31 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 01, 2017, 08:06:49 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 01, 2017, 07:45:19 AM
Jerry Falwell Jr. asked to lead Trump education task force - You couldn't make this up

Falwell says the earth is 6,000 years old and blamed 9/11 on gay people. This is the level of stupid you are being asked to tolerate.
He's a typical Republican religious nut-ball.
Have you got any links on the 9/11 accusation?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121322

Hopefully the Dems fillibuster the shit out of this Gorsuch nomination. It's only right after what the Republicans did to Obama... McConnell on talk shows all week seemingly forgetting what happened towards the end of last year!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on February 01, 2017, 09:27:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
What is wrong with looking after your own. How many here would take a refugee or a stranger into their home. Hypocrite s the lot. Discussion board warrior's Hardy and J70 two biggest shit talkers.

And as usual all you can do is throw insults around instead of addressing actual points. :-*

Carry on.

You are unreal read back kid you are the mastet of personal insults. So would you take a refugee into your home,

Yeah, but I address the arguments first and foremost. You do only the insults.

As for personally taking someone into my home, I'm not in a position to take anyone into my home. But I'm perfectly happy to support politicians who want to help and pay extra taxes/make charitable contributions to support government programmes and NGOs, you know, professional outfits that are actually trained and equipped to deal with this stuff. The idea that its either personally take people into your own home or shut the f**k up is just simplistic, idiotic nonsense meant to shut down debate because you don't want to hear that we should be helping them out.

So you personally aren't helping refugees, are you campaigning to get them resettled in your area, are you reaching out to local government offering your services to help relocate them or are you just talking shite to sound chic liberal as always?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 01, 2017, 09:40:57 AM
Quote
Very few on here seem to be able to view Trump objectively. I certainly would have voted for Hillary, but Trump is entitled to govern the US as he said he would in his mandate. His proposed US tax reforms will be really bad for me personally, so I'd love it if he did something out of bounds and was impeached. But he's not going to turn into a Fascist Dictato

I agree that he's entitled to govern according to his mandate but that shouldn't stop people protesting against him. Not sure what you mean in judging him objectively. I'm judging him by his actions and words and I think he's a dangerous, narcissistic man with the capability to do huge damage to both the US and the rest of of the world
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 01, 2017, 11:28:06 AM
Hang on a second there Hound - my analysis was objective. The poster stated facets of fascist behaviour and I gave examples for all.

1. "America First"
- Absolutely. Big deal in my opinion that a prime minister/president will put his own country's interests first. - whether you believe that it is a big deal or not, it is still a display of nationalism

2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
- It's not a human right to be allowed to enter any country you want, so the ban is not a breach of human rights. Sure, the prevention of entry of the people who had already secured visas was wrong, but again the media headlines has all the details about the hassle, but very little about the fact that most of those were eventually let in.
- He probably hasn't committed torture yet, unlike most past US presidents since WWII, and many other leaders of countries all over the world. He said he believes "torture works". Well it's been used as an interrogation technique for thousands of years, so it probably often does work.

The point is that in these statements he is displaying a disdain for human rights as per the poster- a "muslim" ban would be specifically unconstitutional under the Establishment Clause of the Constitution - whether the ban he actually implemented is, is a matter for the American courts. He has also threatened to kill the families of terrorists in reprisal, and has specifically stated his belief in the efficacy of torture - again, showing disdain for human rights, under the Geneva Convention.

4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one yes, unusual
- Just typical Republican nominations - whether they are typical republican nominations or not, it still displays an awe of the military, something several of his biographers have pointed out, and he had to get a special waiver from Congress to do so. Stop me when anything I saw is less than objective.

5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
- Typical powerful man. See Clinton. - whether it is typical of a powerful man or not (and it is not typical for a man, no matter how powerful, to sexually assault women, which he is alleged to have done, and admitted to on tape) it is still sexist behaviour. There are loads more examples, so you can tick that box beside the poster. Also, whataboutery about Clinton, is still just whataboutery - an excuse for terrible conduct.

6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
- Clearly he has not and cannot accomplish "controlled mass media". - Why do you say that? Putin did, and does. He already has one network behind him (Fox) and he is clearly empowering sites like Breitbart and Infowars (who received White House credentials yesterday), whilst at every stage denigrating the MSM as fake news. It is clearly what he is doing, whether he is successful or not is yet to be seen.

8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
- There's no way anyone could objectively argue that under Trump "Religion and Government is intertwined".
- Throwing in "anti-semistim" is typical hyperbole of some who are searching for reasons to label Trump as some sort of antichrist figure
Whether he believes it or not, religious imagery and allusions have been all over the texts of his executive orders since his inauguration - check them out, they are all available on line. As well as that, on his twitter last week, he explicitly made the argument that Christians should be prioritised as refugees over muslims and made the same argument to a faith based cable channel as well.
As for Anti-Semitism, Trump himself was criticised during the campaign for retweeting anti-Semitic material from a white supremacist website to attack Hillary Clinton, whilst his last campaign ad before the election was denounced by the ADF as being ant-Semitic, decrying as it did shadowy international bankers and ending on an image of Lloyd Blankfein.
As for Steve Bannon, he was accused on anti-Semitism by his ex wife in court papers, he was CEO of Breitbart which was explicitly anti-Semitic (see their William Kristol headline) and he drafted the White House Holocaust Day statement, which omitted any mention of Jews. All these things happened. That's not hyperbole.

9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
- "Corporate Power protected" is something that could be thrown at every US president since JFK. Not sure how that is a facist tendancy, as it's common in the western world
Considering he ran on a "drain the swamp" message and that the net worth of his Cabinet picks far exceeds any picked before, his embrace of corporate power is both hypocritical and unprecedented in its scope. On its own, it cannot be considered fascist - combine it with another 13 tendencies and you get a better picture. Which is the point of the poster, and which you don't seem to understand.



10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
- It seems 100% clear that he treated low level employees miserably throughout his career. But he turned that all around in his election promises and managed to convince a significant amount of low paid workers that he's the answer to their problems and he'll bring jobs back to the USA.
He also said he'd drain the swamp. And as seen above he is not going to do that. His promises mean nothing, and the Right to Work law which the Republicans are preparing to push through Congress will mean the death of organised labour as we know it in the States. Again, these things are really happening and you should check them out rather than basing your argument on the election promises of DJT.
11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
- Meryl's hardly an intelletcual. I read every single Republican candidate's profile early on in the election campaign. Every one of them said climate change is a hoax. Idiots. But that's the market share they're chasing.

I included Meryl as an example of the artistic community - it was both Arts and intellectuals in the poster. So does chasing market share excuse what he is doing? He is appointing a climate denier to head the EPA and has instructed NASA to no longer carry out measurements on global warming. So you can tick that box beside the line on the poster.

12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
- Agreed. He said he'd do it, now he's going to try and do it. Not the first US politician to try it
He also displayed these traits long ago with the Central Park 8 - if he'd had his way, innocent people would have been executed. The checks and balances of the American system are about to be tested to the limits.
13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
- Rampant croneyism is a feature of every US president, in terms of making his appointments. No evidence of corruption, although we can be sure he's not whiter than white, but enough to make his a fascist.
Again, you are wilfully misunderstanding the posters premise. Having one tendency does not make you a fascist. Having the majority of them (which it is plain that he does) at least makes you a proto-fascist. As for cronyism and corruption, both Republican and Democratic former heads of the Office of Governmental Ethics made it clear that as it stood, unless he completely divested himself of his company, President Trump represented the most monumental conflict of interests in the history of the Presidency. That is not entirely his fault, he is, after all an international businessman. But his failure to divest means he is now in violation of the constitution and the only reason impeachment hearings aren't starting already is because Republicans control the houses. He is in violation of the Emoluments Clause, he has appointed to Cabinet positions people who are refusing to comply with ethics disclosures, and in the case of Mnuchin and Price, more revelations are coming out of them lying to the committees. The only Presidency that is in any way comparable to this one in cronyism and corruption, is Warren Hardings, and we are only two weeks in. Whataboutery won't excuse it.

14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.
- He's been involved in no fraudulent elections.
Ah, but he said he was originally - remember the Iowa primary? And then he kept up the rigged talk all the way through the general. Until he won, of course, and then his own attorneys attested in a deposition to prevent the Stein recount, that the elections were free and fair. And then he changed his mind again, saying that between 3-5 million votes were cast fraudulently. Now, you could put all this down to his id, and unwillingness to countenance anything approaching a defeat maturely, but you can be sure his advisors will use the "investigation" into this "rigged" election to make sure that he will not have to face a popular defeat again. And I haven't even mentioned the Russian hacking, which was undertaken to influence votes in his favour, if not the physical act of voting.


All that stuff happened objectively. And putting them all together - which is the point of the poster - presents a fairly damning picture. Please don't say you weren't warned.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 11:28:17 AM
What was his mandate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 01, 2017, 11:36:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2017, 08:27:07 PM
No need to resort to insults.  My opinions are just as valid as yours....that's what one does on a discussion board...offer opinions

If you base your opinions on falsehoods - such as stating that I had argued about California's population as being an outlier before, which I didn't - then they are not valid. Perhaps if you were more truthful in your posts, I wouldn't have to posit the choice of you being either malicious or stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 11:47:11 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 11:28:17 AM
What was his mandate?
- 2.86 million.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on February 01, 2017, 01:23:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 11:47:11 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 11:28:17 AM
What was his mandate?
- 2.86 million.

That wasn't the goal of the election, you can have 99% possession in a football match and lose 1 nil, suck it up Trump is President and all your yapping or the yapping of hypocritical celebs wont change that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 01:53:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 01, 2017, 11:28:06 AM
Hang on a second there Hound - my analysis was objective. The poster stated facets of fascist behaviour and I gave examples for all.

1. "America First"
- Absolutely. Big deal in my opinion that a prime minister/president will put his own country's interests first. - whether you believe that it is a big deal or not, it is still a display of nationalism

2. "Muslim Ban", "I'd bomb the shit out of them" "torture works"
- It's not a human right to be allowed to enter any country you want, so the ban is not a breach of human rights. Sure, the prevention of entry of the people who had already secured visas was wrong, but again the media headlines has all the details about the hassle, but very little about the fact that most of those were eventually let in.
- He probably hasn't committed torture yet, unlike most past US presidents since WWII, and many other leaders of countries all over the world. He said he believes "torture works". Well it's been used as an interrogation technique for thousands of years, so it probably often does work.

The point is that in these statements he is displaying a disdain for human rights as per the poster- a "muslim" ban would be specifically unconstitutional under the Establishment Clause of the Constitution - whether the ban he actually implemented is, is a matter for the American courts. He has also threatened to kill the families of terrorists in reprisal, and has specifically stated his belief in the efficacy of torture - again, showing disdain for human rights, under the Geneva Convention.

4. Three generals in his cabinet - not that unusual - having to get a waiver for one to run Defence and having his NSA as one yes, unusual
- Just typical Republican nominations - whether they are typical republican nominations or not, it still displays an awe of the military, something several of his biographers have pointed out, and he had to get a special waiver from Congress to do so. Stop me when anything I saw is less than objective.

5. Machedo- pussy - his entire married life
- Typical powerful man. See Clinton. - whether it is typical of a powerful man or not (and it is not typical for a man, no matter how powerful, to sexually assault women, which he is alleged to have done, and admitted to on tape) it is still sexist behaviour. There are loads more examples, so you can tick that box beside the poster. Also, whataboutery about Clinton, is still just whataboutery - an excuse for terrible conduct.

6. Not as possible today as in the 30s in modern western democracies - but "cowed" mass media is something he is definitely attempting, constantly attacking MSM
- Clearly he has not and cannot accomplish "controlled mass media". - Why do you say that? Putin did, and does. He already has one network behind him (Fox) and he is clearly empowering sites like Breitbart and Infowars (who received White House credentials yesterday), whilst at every stage denigrating the MSM as fake news. It is clearly what he is doing, whether he is successful or not is yet to be seen.

8. Certainly Bannon/Miller are making national security decisions based on a perceived clash between Christianity and Islam - with a whole tablespoon of anti-Semitism thrown in
- There's no way anyone could objectively argue that under Trump "Religion and Government is intertwined".
- Throwing in "anti-semistim" is typical hyperbole of some who are searching for reasons to label Trump as some sort of antichrist figure
Whether he believes it or not, religious imagery and allusions have been all over the texts of his executive orders since his inauguration - check them out, they are all available on line. As well as that, on his twitter last week, he explicitly made the argument that Christians should be prioritised as refugees over muslims and made the same argument to a faith based cable channel as well.
As for Anti-Semitism, Trump himself was criticised during the campaign for retweeting anti-Semitic material from a white supremacist website to attack Hillary Clinton, whilst his last campaign ad before the election was denounced by the ADF as being ant-Semitic, decrying as it did shadowy international bankers and ending on an image of Lloyd Blankfein.
As for Steve Bannon, he was accused on anti-Semitism by his ex wife in court papers, he was CEO of Breitbart which was explicitly anti-Semitic (see their William Kristol headline) and he drafted the White House Holocaust Day statement, which omitted any mention of Jews. All these things happened. That's not hyperbole.

9. See all his cabinet picks except Kelly and Mattis
- "Corporate Power protected" is something that could be thrown at every US president since JFK. Not sure how that is a facist tendancy, as it's common in the western world
Considering he ran on a "drain the swamp" message and that the net worth of his Cabinet picks far exceeds any picked before, his embrace of corporate power is both hypocritical and unprecedented in its scope. On its own, it cannot be considered fascist - combine it with another 13 tendencies and you get a better picture. Which is the point of the poster, and which you don't seem to understand.



10. See his previous career and attempts to keep unions out of Trump Hotels
- It seems 100% clear that he treated low level employees miserably throughout his career. But he turned that all around in his election promises and managed to convince a significant amount of low paid workers that he's the answer to their problems and he'll bring jobs back to the USA.
He also said he'd drain the swamp. And as seen above he is not going to do that. His promises mean nothing, and the Right to Work law which the Republicans are preparing to push through Congress will mean the death of organised labour as we know it in the States. Again, these things are really happening and you should check them out rather than basing your argument on the election promises of DJT.
11. Meryl Streep et al - degrading of scientific research at EPA/NASA etc
- Meryl's hardly an intelletcual. I read every single Republican candidate's profile early on in the election campaign. Every one of them said climate change is a hoax. Idiots. But that's the market share they're chasing.

I included Meryl as an example of the artistic community - it was both Arts and intellectuals in the poster. So does chasing market share excuse what he is doing? He is appointing a climate denier to head the EPA and has instructed NASA to no longer carry out measurements on global warming. So you can tick that box beside the line on the poster.

12. "American carnage" - "Send in the Feds"
- Agreed. He said he'd do it, now he's going to try and do it. Not the first US politician to try it
He also displayed these traits long ago with the Central Park 8 - if he'd had his way, innocent people would have been executed. The checks and balances of the American system are about to be tested to the limits.
13. See number 9, plus failure to divest himself of family company, sons attending meetings with foreign leaders, son-in-law as advisor etc
- Rampant croneyism is a feature of every US president, in terms of making his appointments. No evidence of corruption, although we can be sure he's not whiter than white, but enough to make his a fascist.
Again, you are wilfully misunderstanding the posters premise. Having one tendency does not make you a fascist. Having the majority of them (which it is plain that he does) at least makes you a proto-fascist. As for cronyism and corruption, both Republican and Democratic former heads of the Office of Governmental Ethics made it clear that as it stood, unless he completely divested himself of his company, President Trump represented the most monumental conflict of interests in the history of the Presidency. That is not entirely his fault, he is, after all an international businessman. But his failure to divest means he is now in violation of the constitution and the only reason impeachment hearings aren't starting already is because Republicans control the houses. He is in violation of the Emoluments Clause, he has appointed to Cabinet positions people who are refusing to comply with ethics disclosures, and in the case of Mnuchin and Price, more revelations are coming out of them lying to the committees. The only Presidency that is in any way comparable to this one in cronyism and corruption, is Warren Hardings, and we are only two weeks in. Whataboutery won't excuse it.

14. See everything he said about rigged elections during the campaign - and everything he is saying now re 3-5 million voters - all as preparation for "reforms" - can't wait for them.
- He's been involved in no fraudulent elections.
Ah, but he said he was originally - remember the Iowa primary? And then he kept up the rigged talk all the way through the general. Until he won, of course, and then his own attorneys attested in a deposition to prevent the Stein recount, that the elections were free and fair. And then he changed his mind again, saying that between 3-5 million votes were cast fraudulently. Now, you could put all this down to his id, and unwillingness to countenance anything approaching a defeat maturely, but you can be sure his advisors will use the "investigation" into this "rigged" election to make sure that he will not have to face a popular defeat again. And I haven't even mentioned the Russian hacking, which was undertaken to influence votes in his favour, if not the physical act of voting.


All that stuff happened objectively. And putting them all together - which is the point of the poster - presents a fairly damning picture. Please don't say you weren't warned.

Bannon deserves a mention

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/12/trump-victory-how-it-happened/

   When one considers what kind of administration Trump will form, the people he's had around him in the presidential race and the manner in which he organized his campaign give pause. Trump's second and final campaign chairman, Steve Bannon, of Breitbart News, pushes the "alt-right" theme of white supremacy and is believed to have been the guiding spirit behind Trump's chillingly anti-Semetic final campaign ad, which charged that Clinton associated with three people who happen to be prominent Jews: George Soros ("those who control the levers of power in Washington"); Fed chairman Janet Yellen ("global special interests"); and Lloyd Blankfein ("put money into the pockets of large corporations"). It's hard to see how it could have been more blatant. These weren't "dog whistles," they were dogs barking loudly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

Bannon is the power behind Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 01, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
The similarities with Germany 1933 are frightening.
Yet we have some people here glorying in the appointment of that vile evil c**t as President.
Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 01, 2017, 02:53:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 01, 2017, 09:27:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on January 31, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
What is wrong with looking after your own. How many here would take a refugee or a stranger into their home. Hypocrite s the lot. Discussion board warrior's Hardy and J70 two biggest shit talkers.

And as usual all you can do is throw insults around instead of addressing actual points. :-*

Carry on.

You are unreal read back kid you are the mastet of personal insults. So would you take a refugee into your home,

Yeah, but I address the arguments first and foremost. You do only the insults.

As for personally taking someone into my home, I'm not in a position to take anyone into my home. But I'm perfectly happy to support politicians who want to help and pay extra taxes/make charitable contributions to support government programmes and NGOs, you know, professional outfits that are actually trained and equipped to deal with this stuff. The idea that its either personally take people into your own home or shut the f**k up is just simplistic, idiotic nonsense meant to shut down debate because you don't want to hear that we should be helping them out.

So you personally aren't helping refugees, are you campaigning to get them resettled in your area, are you reaching out to local government offering your services to help relocate them or are you just talking shite to sound chic liberal as always?

The details of what I am or am not personally doing, with respect to anything, is irrelevant. I could be honest, I could play down, I could bullshit, I could exaggerate... no one has any means of verifying what an anonymous poster says they do in their real lives, and given that personal acts are not the point of the discussion, it's neither here nor there. If I am out marching or volunteering at a shelter or calling my congressman or paying a fistful to a charity or collecting or donating toys for kids is no business of anyone's.
Once again though, it's an example of you attacking the man because playing the ball isn't working out too well for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on February 01, 2017, 04:00:29 PM
You are full of shite your empty words mean nothing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 01, 2017, 04:02:32 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 01, 2017, 04:00:29 PM
You are full of shite your empty words mean nothing.

;D ;D Hilarious. . . yet it's the Liberal Elite who are ignoring "regular people"

Here's a good site for you:

http://thedeplorablesforum.com/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
The similarities with Germany 1933 are frightening.
Yet we have some people here glorying in the appointment of that vile evil c**t as President.
Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives.

Get a grip.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 01, 2017, 05:13:24 PM
To be fair El Presidente was in great form this morning- Here is a transcript of his comments on Dr. Martin Luther King at his Black History Month gathering.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3l2gVXWEAEEqG3.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3l2hXUXUAAZZeq.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 01, 2017, 05:29:09 PM
"I don't watch CNN" - hahahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 01, 2017, 06:07:32 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 01, 2017, 05:13:24 PM
To be fair El Presidente was in great form this morning- Here is a transcript of his comments on Dr. Martin Luther King at his Black History Month gathering.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3l2gVXWEAEEqG3.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3l2hXUXUAAZZeq.jpg)

Is there simply NOTHING that can't be turned into an airing of personal grievances by Trump? Is there ANYTHING that isn't about him?

Unbelievable! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 01, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-trump-supreme-court-kass-0201-20170131-column.html

For decades, the establishment media has mostly listed to the left. That's not in dispute. And in the last election, WikiLeaks' releases from the Hillary Clinton campaign showed evidence of deep collusion between the Beltway establishment media and establishment Democrats.


Very interesting article.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 06:29:14 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 01, 2017, 05:13:24 PM
To be fair El Presidente was in great form this morning- Here is a transcript of his comments on Dr. Martin Luther King at his Black History Month gathering.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3l2gVXWEAEEqG3.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3l2hXUXUAAZZeq.jpg)

Worse than Palin. Sentences to nowhere. Rambling, incoherent, gibberish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 06:30:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
The similarities with Germany 1933 are frightening.
Yet we have some people here glorying in the appointment of that vile evil c**t as President.
Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives.

Get a grip.

That's it. Winner of the debate. Such a well-argued case, sources and citations and all. Irrefutable logic. Give that man a medal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 06:32:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 01, 2017, 06:07:32 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 01, 2017, 05:13:24 PM
To be fair El Presidente was in great form this morning- Here is a transcript of his comments on Dr. Martin Luther King at his Black History Month gathering.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3l2gVXWEAEEqG3.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3l2hXUXUAAZZeq.jpg)

Is there simply NOTHING that can't be turned into an airing of personal grievances by Trump? Is there ANYTHING that isn't about him?

Unbelievable! ;D
Trump is a weird mixture of grievance, plámás and bombast
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
The similarities with Germany 1933 are frightening.
Yet we have some people here glorying in the appointment of that vile evil c**t as President.
Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives.

Get a grip!

The real problem with fascism isn't fascism itself, it's you chic liberal whiney snowflakes who moan about it!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Keep it up

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 06:30:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
The similarities with Germany 1933 are frightening.
Yet we have some people here glorying in the appointment of that vile evil c**t as President.
Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives.

Get a grip.

That's it. Winner of the debate. Such a well-argued case, sources and citations and all. Irrefutable logic. Give that man a medal.

You're the one buying into the likes of Rossfanny's hysteria. 50 or 70 million lives will be lost? You got evidence of this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-trump-supreme-court-kass-0201-20170131-column.html

For decades, the establishment media has mostly listed to the left. That's not in dispute. And in the last election, WikiLeaks' releases from the Hillary Clinton campaign showed evidence of deep collusion between the Beltway establishment media and establishment Democrats.


Very interesting article.
The Murdoch media are establishment and right wing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 07:50:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 06:30:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
The similarities with Germany 1933 are frightening.
Yet we have some people here glorying in the appointment of that vile evil c**t as President.
Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives.

Get a grip.

That's it. Winner of the debate. Such a well-argued case, sources and citations and all. Irrefutable logic. Give that man a medal.

You're the one buying into the likes of Rossfanny's hysteria. 50 or 70 million lives will be lost? You got evidence of this?

I believe the statement was "Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives."

"Hopefully it won't" isn't quite the same as saying "it will" now, is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 07:52:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
The real problem with fascism isn't fascism itself, it's you chic liberal whiney snowflakes who moan about it!!!

Wow. Just wow.

So now we know. Fascism wasn't a problem and Churchill was a chic whiney liberal snowflake.

You conservatives have well and truly gone into collective insanity. God help us all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 07:53:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 07:52:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
The real problem with fascism isn't fascism itself, it's you chic liberal whiney snowflakes who moan about it!!!

Wow. Just wow.

So now we know. Fascism wasn't a problem and Churchill was a chic whiney liberal snowflake.

You conservatives have well and truly gone into collective insanity. God help us all.
You've been tangoed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 07:52:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
The real problem with fascism isn't fascism itself, it's you chic liberal whiney snowflakes who moan about it!!!

Wow. Just wow.

So now we know. Fascism wasn't a problem and Churchill was a chic whiney liberal snowflake.

You conservatives have well and truly gone into collective insanity. God help us all.
Ah jaysus, Eamonn.

I guess my impression of foxkommander was too good.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on February 01, 2017, 09:07:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 07:52:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
The real problem with fascism isn't fascism itself, it's you chic liberal whiney snowflakes who moan about it!!!

Wow. Just wow.

So now we know. Fascism wasn't a problem and Churchill was a chic whiney liberal snowflake.

You conservatives have well and truly gone into collective insanity. God help us all.
Ah jaysus, Eamonn.

I guess my impression of foxkommander was too good.

:)  :) :)

Beware in fighting the monster, you do not turn into a monster yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 09:12:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-trump-supreme-court-kass-0201-20170131-column.html

For decades, the establishment media has mostly listed to the left. That's not in dispute. And in the last election, WikiLeaks' releases from the Hillary Clinton campaign showed evidence of deep collusion between the Beltway establishment media and establishment Democrats.


Very interesting article.
The Murdoch media are establishment and right wing.

I love the way Whitey takes a bit from the article and passes it off in his post as if he's written it himself.  ;D

It's a really, really shit, cliched article which uses every trick in book from the alt-right playbook, by the way. But I can see why it would apply to zeta males with a deep inferiority complex who fantasise about having a larger manhood than they actually do.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 01, 2017, 09:36:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 09:12:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-trump-supreme-court-kass-0201-20170131-column.html

For decades, the establishment media has mostly listed to the left. That's not in dispute. And in the last election, WikiLeaks' releases from the Hillary Clinton campaign showed evidence of deep collusion between the Beltway establishment media and establishment Democrats.


Very interesting article.
The Murdoch media are establishment and right wing.

I love the way Whitey takes a bit from the article and passes it off in his post as if he's written it himself.  ;D

It's a really, really shit, cliched article which uses every trick in book from the alt-right playbook, by the way. But I can see why it would apply to zeta males with a deep inferiority complex who fantasise about having a larger manhood than they actually do.


Keep it up.....you'll obliterate the Republicans next time out. 

If you want proof, just look at the extra 3 million votes Hillary got in the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 01, 2017, 09:40:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 07:50:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 06:30:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
The similarities with Germany 1933 are frightening.
Yet we have some people here glorying in the appointment of that vile evil c**t as President.
Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives.

Get a grip.

That's it. Winner of the debate. Such a well-argued case, sources and citations and all. Irrefutable logic. Give that man a medal.

You're the one buying into the likes of Rossfanny's hysteria. 50 or 70 million lives will be lost? You got evidence of this?

I believe the statement was "Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives."

"Hopefully it won't" isn't quite the same as saying "it will" now, is it?

All depends on your definition of the word "is" and "isn't"

Do som research on Bill Clinton....he may be able to enlighten you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 10:07:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 07:50:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 06:30:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
The similarities with Germany 1933 are frightening.
Yet we have some people here glorying in the appointment of that vile evil c**t as President.
Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives.

Get a grip.

That's it. Winner of the debate. Such a well-argued case, sources and citations and all. Irrefutable logic. Give that man a medal.

You're the one buying into the likes of Rossfanny's hysteria. 50 or 70 million lives will be lost? You got evidence of this?

I believe the statement was "Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives."

"Hopefully it won't" isn't quite the same as saying "it will" now, is it?

Rossfanny is making dangerous claims there is a potential for loss of life. His words. You hysterical drama queens should take a break from watching CNN. It can't be good for you.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 01, 2017, 10:16:07 PM
I hear the drums of war.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/01/iran-trump-michael-flynn-on-notice
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 01, 2017, 11:16:56 PM
Good to see Canada bitch slap that bastion of Conservative shite wing media Fox News for making up the nonsense that it was a Muslim who attacked the mosque in Quebec!!

And here we were all led to believe it was only CNN who pulled this kind of stunt!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 12:00:20 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2017, 11:16:56 PM
Good to see Canada bitch slap that bastion of Conservative shite wing media Fox News for making up the nonsense that it was a Muslim who attacked the mosque in Quebec!!

And here we were all led to believe it was only CNN who pulled this kind of stunt!!

Funny how we didn't hear Whitey calling for anybody to be sacked this time, eh?

Even though Fox didn't bother correcting their mistake and it needed the Canadian PM to intervene.

Fox is the "fair and balanced" network, though, of course. ;)

Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 04:54:32 PM

Doesn't matter that it was retracted....it was put out and tweeted and retweeted the world over within minutes. Your making the assumption that everyone who read the original story read the retraction....I can guarantee you they didnt.  There was a case study where a Trump supporter made some outlandish claim and that outlandish claim was retweeted 15,000 times.  The "correction" was retweeted something like 150 times

That "reporter" for Time magazine should have been fired on the spot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 02, 2017, 12:09:02 AM
Thank God for Canada a beacon of light and reason in North America.
Isn't it amazing how the murder of 6 Muslims at their Mosque by a "Christian" extremist hadn't been mentioned on GAAboard all week?
It was about 3rd or 4th on the News on Irish radio and TV all week.
Imagine if a "Muslim" extremist had murdered 6 Christians at Mass.......
Sickening double standards.
Thank God for Ballyhaunis and Ballagh ( GAA excepted)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 02, 2017, 12:17:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 12:00:20 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2017, 11:16:56 PM
Good to see Canada bitch slap that bastion of Conservative shite wing media Fox News for making up the nonsense that it was a Muslim who attacked the mosque in Quebec!!

And here we were all led to believe it was only CNN who pulled this kind of stunt!!

Funny how we didn't hear Whitey calling for anybody to be sacked this time, eh?

Even though Fox didn't bother correcting their mistake and it needed the Canadian PM to intervene.

Fox is the "fair and balanced" network, though, of course. ;)

Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 04:54:32 PM

Doesn't matter that it was retracted....it was put out and tweeted and retweeted the world over within minutes. Your making the assumption that everyone who read the original story read the retraction....I can guarantee you they didnt.  There was a case study where a Trump supporter made some outlandish claim and that outlandish claim was retweeted 15,000 times.  The "correction" was retweeted something like 150 times

That "reporter" for Time magazine should have been fired on the spot

When have I ever defended Fox News?   

That person at Fox should have been fired too!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 02, 2017, 12:33:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 10:07:47 PM
Rossfanny is making dangerous claims there is a potential for loss of life. His words. You hysterical drama queens should take a break from watching CNN. It can't be good for you.

The death toll from the Bush presidency is probably over a million by now. But keep pushing that "och it'll be all right" line if you want.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 12:34:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2017, 12:17:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 12:00:20 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2017, 11:16:56 PM
Good to see Canada bitch slap that bastion of Conservative shite wing media Fox News for making up the nonsense that it was a Muslim who attacked the mosque in Quebec!!

And here we were all led to believe it was only CNN who pulled this kind of stunt!!

Funny how we didn't hear Whitey calling for anybody to be sacked this time, eh?

Even though Fox didn't bother correcting their mistake and it needed the Canadian PM to intervene.

Fox is the "fair and balanced" network, though, of course. ;)

Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 04:54:32 PM

Doesn't matter that it was retracted....it was put out and tweeted and retweeted the world over within minutes. Your making the assumption that everyone who read the original story read the retraction....I can guarantee you they didnt.  There was a case study where a Trump supporter made some outlandish claim and that outlandish claim was retweeted 15,000 times.  The "correction" was retweeted something like 150 times

That "reporter" for Time magazine should have been fired on the spot

When have I ever defended Fox News?   

That person at Fox should have been fired too!

The mistakes weren't equivalent.

The Time reporter Zeke Miller corrected his mistake within minutes and tweeted numerous times that he had made a mistake, including a direct tweet to Sean Spicer, who accepted his apology, before launching into a Trump-ordered tirade against him the following day. Time Magazine also aplogised.

Fox left their erroneous tweet up for well over a day despite it becoming viral within a couple of hours and being bombarded with calls to take it down.

The subject matters of the erroneous tweets also weren't remotely equivalent.

Miller's mistake was in erroneously reporting the non-presence of a statue, Fox's tweet erroneously branded an entirely innocent bystander as the prime suspect in a terrorist atrocity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 12:40:22 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 10:07:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 07:50:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2017, 06:30:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
The similarities with Germany 1933 are frightening.
Yet we have some people here glorying in the appointment of that vile evil c**t as President.
Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives.
Get a grip.

That's it. Winner of the debate. Such a well-argued case, sources and citations and all. Irrefutable logic. Give that man a medal.

You're the one buying into the likes of Rossfanny's hysteria. 50 or 70 million lives will be lost? You got evidence of this?

I believe the statement was "Hopefully his downfall won't cost 50 or 70 million lives."

"Hopefully it won't" isn't quite the same as saying "it will" now, is it?

Rossfanny is making dangerous claims there is a potential for loss of life. His words. You hysterical drama queens should take a break from watching CNN. It can't be good for you.

How interesting that you consider a post about US politics on an Irish internet forum to be more dangerous than the President of the United States publicly stating he believes that torture works!

As you might say yourself, get a grip!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 12:51:11 AM
If you're white, terrorise away...

Exclusive: Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam - sources

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-extremists-program-exclusiv-idUSKBN15G5VO

The program, "Countering Violent Extremism," or CVE, would be changed to "Countering Islamic Extremism" or "Countering Radical Islamic Extremism," the sources said, and would no longer target groups such as white supremacists who have also carried out bombings and shootings in the United States.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 02, 2017, 01:02:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 12:34:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2017, 12:17:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 12:00:20 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2017, 11:16:56 PM
Good to see Canada bitch slap that bastion of Conservative shite wing media Fox News for making up the nonsense that it was a Muslim who attacked the mosque in Quebec!!

And here we were all led to believe it was only CNN who pulled this kind of stunt!!

Funny how we didn't hear Whitey calling for anybody to be sacked this time, eh?

Even though Fox didn't bother correcting their mistake and it needed the Canadian PM to intervene.

Fox is the "fair and balanced" network, though, of course. ;)

Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2017, 04:54:32 PM

Doesn't matter that it was retracted....it was put out and tweeted and retweeted the world over within minutes. Your making the assumption that everyone who read the original story read the retraction....I can guarantee you they didnt.  There was a case study where a Trump supporter made some outlandish claim and that outlandish claim was retweeted 15,000 times.  The "correction" was retweeted something like 150 times

That "reporter" for Time magazine should have been fired on the spot

When have I ever defended Fox News?   

That person at Fox should have been fired too!

The mistakes weren't equivalent.

The Time reporter Zeke Miller corrected his mistake within minutes and tweeted numerous times that he had made a mistake, including a direct tweet to Sean Spicer, who accepted his apology, before launching into a Trump-ordered tirade against him the following day. Time Magazine also aplogised.

Fox left their erroneous tweet up for well over a day despite it becoming viral within a couple of hours and being bombarded with calls to take it down.

The subject matters of the erroneous tweets also weren't remotely equivalent.

Miller's mistake was in erroneously reporting the non-presence of a statue, Fox's tweet erroneously branded an entirely innocent bystander as the prime suspect in a terrorist atrocity.

Miller told the entire African American community that Trump had $hit on them within hours of him taking office....that's pretty fvcked up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 04:24:02 AM
Bookworm ‏@JovialLibrarian  30 janv.


"Battery Park" protester's sign:
.
Super
Callous
Fragile
Racist
Sexist
Nazi
Potus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 02, 2017, 08:30:27 AM
Good to see the new Supreme Court nominee has a sense of humour  ??? ???

Trump's Supreme Court pick Gorsuch was the "tireless" president of his elite school's Fascism Forever club

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3oxDn8UMAAo0BY.jpg)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3oxnpIVUAAgY6a.jpg:large)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 02, 2017, 08:34:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 02, 2017, 12:33:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 10:07:47 PM
Rossfanny is making dangerous claims there is a potential for loss of life. His words. You hysterical drama queens should take a break from watching CNN. It can't be good for you.

The death toll from the Bush presidency is probably over a million by now. But keep pushing that "och it'll be all right" line if you want.

How many red because Obama didn't have the balls to set up a no fly  zone in Syria? How many died because the Russians did what they wanted to do. In Syria whilst America Sat on her hands while tens of thousands were slaughtered.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 08:42:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again
Poor Yiannopolis the snowflakeen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 02, 2017, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 08:42:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again
Poor Yiannopolis the snowflakeen

He may be an odious individual, but that doesn't excuse rioting and destruction of property.

Peaceful demonstration and telling him what a dirtbag he is make the point without giving opposition a bad name and giving him fuel to act the martyr and gain sympathy.

Same goes for violence against that Spencer knob.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again
Funny how you had nothing to say when a Yiannopoulos supporter shot a peaceful protestor in the stomach in Seattle last week...

Remind me who the real fascists are again, won't you?  ;)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/shooting-milo-yiannopoulos-speech-seattle-charges
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 02, 2017, 11:27:02 AM
I hear vile evil fascist xenophobic homophobic misogynist c**t has shown his ignorance by hanging up on the Australian Premier because the latter wouldn't lick his arse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 02, 2017, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again

They deserve participation trophies, then have said trophies broken over their thick skulls the cowards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 01:59:14 PM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2017, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again

They deserve participation trophies, then have said trophies broken over their thick skulls the cowards.
He is a hate monger and rabble rouse.  NI had loads in the 70s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on February 02, 2017, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 01:59:14 PM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2017, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again

They deserve participation trophies, then have said trophies broken over their thick skulls the cowards.
He is a hate monger and rabble rouse.  NI had loads in the 70s

He's very like you - just spews shite without thinking.  I doubt you know 5% of what you post here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 02, 2017, 02:27:58 PM
Day 12 - https://ftalphaville-cdn.ft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/02104940/McHenry-letter-to-Yellen.pdf (https://ftalphaville-cdn.ft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/02104940/McHenry-letter-to-Yellen.pdf)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 02, 2017, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 02, 2017, 02:27:58 PM
Day 12 - https://ftalphaville-cdn.ft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/02104940/McHenry-letter-to-Yellen.pdf (https://ftalphaville-cdn.ft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/02104940/McHenry-letter-to-Yellen.pdf)

I don't think either Congressman McHenry or Trump have much authority over the Fed.

And any agreements they come to, are they not subject to public comment like any other prior to implementation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 02, 2017, 03:58:28 PM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2017, 08:34:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 02, 2017, 12:33:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2017, 10:07:47 PM
Rossfanny is making dangerous claims there is a potential for loss of life. His words. You hysterical drama queens should take a break from watching CNN. It can't be good for you.

The death toll from the Bush presidency is probably over a million by now. But keep pushing that "och it'll be all right" line if you want.

How many red because Obama didn't have the balls to set up a no fly  zone in Syria? How many died because the Russians did what they wanted to do. In Syria whilst America Sat on her hands while tens of thousands were slaughtered.

Who was president when the Iraq war started? Who was president when 9/11 happened? (Hint: he was breaking new records for vacation time, clearing brush on his ranch, while warnings about Bin Laden attacking the US with hijacked airliners sat unread on his desk.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 02, 2017, 04:00:26 PM
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
      -H.L. Mencken,  July 26, 1920.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 02, 2017, 04:00:33 PM
Just curious. Do the conservative commentators here condemn that attack on the Mosque in Canada?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 02, 2017, 04:13:38 PM
I seem to be the only one to even mention it before you Eamonn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 04:32:23 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 02, 2017, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 01:59:14 PM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2017, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again

They deserve participation trophies, then have said trophies broken over their thick skulls the cowards.
He is a hate monger and rabble rouse.  NI had loads in the 70s

He's very like you - just spews shite without thinking.  I doubt you know 5% of what you post here.
You sound like  a St Bernard version of Breitbart
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:50:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again
Funny how you had nothing to say when a Yiannopoulos supporter shot a peaceful protestor in the stomach in Seattle last week...

Remind me who the real fascists are again, won't you?  ;)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/shooting-milo-yiannopoulos-speech-seattle-charges
yes the scum who won't let a guy speak at a university sanctioned event .how could I comment on the incident when I never heard about it ? The guy was released so we will see what happens. If the democrats want to get back into power anytime soon they should distance themselves from these idiots and the loons at the women's march I.e. Madonna Ashley Judd Etc ,most Americans would be happy with a slightly left of center administration but the dems are gone so far left and don't seem to be able or want to change direction .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 02, 2017, 05:18:00 PM
They'd still be a very right wing party in Social Democratic, Health Care no guns Europe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 02, 2017, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:50:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again
Funny how you had nothing to say when a Yiannopoulos supporter shot a peaceful protestor in the stomach in Seattle last week...

Remind me who the real fascists are again, won't you?  ;)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/shooting-milo-yiannopoulos-speech-seattle-charges
yes the scum who won't let a guy speak at a university sanctioned event .how could I comment on the incident when I never heard about it ? The guy was released so we will see what happens. If the democrats want to get back into power anytime soon they should distance themselves from these idiots and the loons at the women's march I.e. Madonna Ashley Judd Etc ,most Americans would be happy with a slightly left of center administration but the dems are gone so far left and don't seem to be able or want to change direction .

Correct.

Suppression of freedom of speech whilst rioting and causing damage to property not belonging to them, they need a good booting and a jail cell for a few years on hard Labour the c***ts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:50:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 02, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
scum out in force in Berkeley tonight , remind me who the intolerant fascists are again
Funny how you had nothing to say when a Yiannopoulos supporter shot a peaceful protestor in the stomach in Seattle last week...

Remind me who the real fascists are again, won't you?  ;)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/shooting-milo-yiannopoulos-speech-seattle-charges
yes the scum who won't let a guy speak at a university sanctioned event .how could I comment on the incident when I never heard about it ?
Very revealing that you don't consider a supporter of Yiannopoulos and Trump who shoots a peaceful protestor in the stomach to be a fascist.

Also very revealing that you hadn't even heard about it. I'd hazard a guess* that you never heard about it because you get your news from sources that reinforce the far right thought bubble in which you are clearly so comfortable. They don't cover stuff like this. 

We really are seeing who the real fascists are now, aren't we? 

*figure of speech  ;)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 02, 2017, 07:00:35 PM
Yes Stew, their behavior was appalling. He has every right to say his hateful bile.
You would be better served however, if you saved your outrage for Bannon's attacks on the free press.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 07:44:12 PM
Hate speech now should be controlled. The soi disant dangerous f**got is a provocateur
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 02, 2017, 07:52:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 07:44:12 PM
Hate speech now should be controlled. The soi disant dangerous f**got is a provocateur

But then you run into the problem of who gets to define what is hate speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 02, 2017, 08:15:25 PM
+1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 09:13:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 02, 2017, 07:52:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 07:44:12 PM
Hate speech now should be controlled. The soi disant dangerous f**got is a provocateur

But then you run into the problem of who gets to define what is hate speech.
Start off with Twitter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 02, 2017, 10:08:30 PM
Roll back on Obamas background check bill . . . "Make America Safe Again"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 02, 2017, 10:10:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 02, 2017, 07:52:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 07:44:12 PM
Hate speech now should be controlled. The soi disant dangerous f**got is a provocateur

But then you run into the problem of who gets to define what is hate speech.

Where do our Trumpets stand on free speech for, say, Abu Hamza, one wonders?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 03, 2017, 12:45:03 AM
So - this wall - doesn't really sound like much of a wall if you can see through it  ::) - unless they are talking about a fence.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3rX43fWMAAVvmh.jpg)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 03, 2017, 12:48:27 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 03, 2017, 12:45:03 AM
So - this wall - doesn't really sound like much of a wall if you can see through it  ::) - unless they are talking about a fence.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3rX43fWMAAVvmh.jpg)

But we were promised a 'big, beautiful wall'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 03, 2017, 01:12:28 AM
I can't see the Mexicans paying for a half-assed wall like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 01:18:22 AM
It's an alternative wall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 04:32:42 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 03, 2017, 12:48:27 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 03, 2017, 12:45:03 AM
So - this wall - doesn't really sound like much of a wall if you can see through it  ::) - unless they are talking about a fence.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3rX43fWMAAVvmh.jpg)

But we were promised a 'big, beautiful wall'
It will be designed to.prevent Americans from leaving.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 04:42:01 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/02/corporate-dark-money-power-atlantic-lobbyists-brexit

Trump's extraordinary plan to cut federal spending by $10.5tn was drafted by the Heritage Foundation, which called it a "blueprint for a new administration". Vought and Gray, who moved on to Trump's team from Heritage, are now turning this blueprint into his first budget.
This will, if passed, inflict devastating cuts on healthcare, social security, legal aid, financial regulation and environmental protections; eliminate programmes to prevent violence against women, defend civil rights and fund the arts; and will privatise the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Trump, as you follow this story, begins to look less like a president and more like an intermediary, implementing an agenda that has been handed down to him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 06:57:25 AM
http://www.bradford-delong.com/2017/02/statement-for-the-bbc-on-the-disruption-of-berkeley-speaker-event-on-february-1-2017.html

If the members of the Berkeley Republican Club believe that their invited speaker has ideas about politics and moral philosophy that are--even potentially--great, I really wish that they would explain why they think they are great. They have a duty to the university to do so. But perhaps they invited their speaker because they hoped he would make African-American, Asian, Hispanic, Muslim, and other minority members of the university feel small and unsafe. If so they need to examine their consciences and pray to their gods, and think hard about whether they understand the purpose of a university.
For a university is not just a safe space for ideas to be expressed, and a place where such ideas are then to be examined and assessed, but it is also a safe space for scholars. All members of the university have a duty to make all other members feel welcome, and feel that they belong. Violations of that basic courtesy also cast doubt on whether people understand the purpose of a university, and, indeed, whether their time ought to be spent outside one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 03, 2017, 07:58:13 AM
Day 13 - This is exhausting

1.Donald Trump White House Dress Code Policy? Female Staffers Must 'Dress Like Women,' President Says

2. A draft of an executive order says the government will not force individuals or organizations to engage in activities that may "violate their conscience." The draft, titled, "Establishing a Government-Wide Initiative to Respect Religious Freedom," from two sources.
If signed, the order would appear to allow employers to deny employee health coverage for contraception and abortion. It also would permit federally funded adoption and family services organizations to discriminate against same-sex couples.Further, it would protect the tax-exempt status of any religious organization or privately held company that "believes, speaks, or acts (or declines to act) in accordance with the belief that marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman, sexual relations are properly reserved for such a marriage, male and female and their equivalents refer to an individual's immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy, physiology, or genetics at or before birth, and that human life begins at conception and merits protection at all stages of life."

3. - DONALD TRUMP'S ADVISOR Kellyanne Conway has told US TV that the President's controversial travel ban would avoid events like the "Bowling Green massacre" – an event which never happened. Speaking to MSNBC's Chris Matthews, Trump's former campaign manager said that Barack Obama had banned travel for Muslims in light of the massacre in Kentucky. But both parts of her answer are untrue."I bet it's brand new information to people that President Obama had a six-month ban on the Iraqi refugee program after two Iraqis came here to this country, were radicalised and they were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green massacre."Most people don't know that because it didn't get covered."

In 2011, two Iraqi refugees were arrested in Bowling Green on terrorism charges. When US authorities looked into the case, it transpired one of their fingerprints had been found on a roadside bomb used to attack American troops in Iraq.That led to an Obama-ordered review of 57,000 asylum applications. Because of the intensive nature of the work, applications from Iraq were slowed down. However, no ban was ever ordered, nor was there any massacre or planned massacre in Bowling Green. The two men arrested, Waad Ramadan Alwan and Mohanad Shareef Hammadi were suspected of plotting to send money and weapons back to Iraqi insurgents, not attack America.

4. The US House of Representatives has voted to remove an Obama-era regulation on background checks that aimed to prevent the mentally ill from obtaining firearms.
The Republican-led House voted 235 to 180 largely upon party lines to bar efforts by the Social Security Administration (SSA) to bar disability recipients with mental disorders from owning guns.
The legislation now heads to the Senate.

5. White House nixed Holocaust statement naming Jews

The State Department wrote a message that recognized Jewish victims, but the White House used its own that didn't.
The State Department drafted its own statement last month marking International Holocaust Remembrance Day that explicitly included a mention of Jewish victims, according to people familiar with the matter, but President Donald Trump's White House blocked its release.
The existence of the draft statement adds another dimension to the controversy around the White House's own statement that was released on Friday and set off a furor because it excluded any mention of Jews. The White House has stood by the statement, defending it as an "inclusive" message that was not intended to marginalize Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

6. A man was detained at Dulles Tuesday because he visited Iran 3 years ago. He's the former prime minister of Norway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 08:29:31 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 03, 2017, 07:58:13 AM
Day 13 - This is exhausting

1.Donald Trump White House Dress Code Policy? Female Staffers Must 'Dress Like Women,' President Says

2. A draft of an executive order says the government will not force individuals or organizations to engage in activities that may "violate their conscience." The draft, titled, "Establishing a Government-Wide Initiative to Respect Religious Freedom," from two sources.
If signed, the order would appear to allow employers to deny employee health coverage for contraception and abortion. It also would permit federally funded adoption and family services organizations to discriminate against same-sex couples.Further, it would protect the tax-exempt status of any religious organization or privately held company that "believes, speaks, or acts (or declines to act) in accordance with the belief that marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman, sexual relations are properly reserved for such a marriage, male and female and their equivalents refer to an individual's immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy, physiology, or genetics at or before birth, and that human life begins at conception and merits protection at all stages of life."

3. - DONALD TRUMP'S ADVISOR Kellyanne Conway has told US TV that the President's controversial travel ban would avoid events like the "Bowling Green massacre" – an event which never happened. Speaking to MSNBC's Chris Matthews, Trump's former campaign manager said that Barack Obama had banned travel for Muslims in light of the massacre in Kentucky. But both parts of her answer are untrue."I bet it's brand new information to people that President Obama had a six-month ban on the Iraqi refugee program after two Iraqis came here to this country, were radicalised and they were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green massacre."Most people don't know that because it didn't get covered."

In 2011, two Iraqi refugees were arrested in Bowling Green on terrorism charges. When US authorities looked into the case, it transpired one of their fingerprints had been found on a roadside bomb used to attack American troops in Iraq.That led to an Obama-ordered review of 57,000 asylum applications. Because of the intensive nature of the work, applications from Iraq were slowed down. However, no ban was ever ordered, nor was there any massacre or planned massacre in Bowling Green. The two men arrested, Waad Ramadan Alwan and Mohanad Shareef Hammadi were suspected of plotting to send money and weapons back to Iraqi insurgents, not attack America.

4. The US House of Representatives has voted to remove an Obama-era regulation on background checks that aimed to prevent the mentally ill from obtaining firearms.
The Republican-led House voted 235 to 180 largely upon party lines to bar efforts by the Social Security Administration (SSA) to bar disability recipients with mental disorders from owning guns.
The legislation now heads to the Senate.

5. White House nixed Holocaust statement naming Jews

The State Department wrote a message that recognized Jewish victims, but the White House used its own that didn't.
The State Department drafted its own statement last month marking International Holocaust Remembrance Day that explicitly included a mention of Jewish victims, according to people familiar with the matter, but President Donald Trump's White House blocked its release.
The existence of the draft statement adds another dimension to the controversy around the White House's own statement that was released on Friday and set off a furor because it excluded any mention of Jews. The White House has stood by the statement, defending it as an "inclusive" message that was not intended to marginalize Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

6. A man was detained at Dulles Tuesday because he visited Iran 3 years ago. He's the former prime minister of Norway.

Bannon is in charge
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2017, 11:51:04 AM
But hey... at least Hillary isn't president... or something...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 03, 2017, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 11:51:04 AM
But hey... at least Hillary isn't president... or something...

She hates you, she hates your class and the **** should be in prison you dumb bitch, what part of this is difficult for you to comprehend?
Dolt!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Estimator on February 03, 2017, 12:02:52 PM
The fact that Conway wasn't even challenged by the interviewer regarding the "Bowling Green" Massacre is very worrying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 12:12:42 PM
Quote from: Estimator on February 03, 2017, 12:02:52 PM
The fact that Conway wasn't even challenged by the interviewer regarding the "Bowling Green" Massacre is very worrying.

KellyAnn destroyed Chris Matthews in that interview.....she had him twisting around in circles

He's usually very good at putting words in peoples mouths, then jumping down their throats......but she turned the tables on him big time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: stew on February 03, 2017, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 11:51:04 AM
But hey... at least Hillary isn't president... or something...

She hates you, she hates your class and the **** should be in prison you dumb bitch, what part of this is difficult for you to comprehend?
Dolt!
SHE'S EVIL! SHE'S A JEWISH NAZI! KILL HER! KILL HER! KILL HER!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 12:20:12 PM
Tomorrow: Kellyanne Conway tells the story of the little known 2012 Tennis Court Massacre, when evil Iranian immigrants machine gunned a hard working white family from the town of Tennis Court, Michigan who were enjoying a game of father/mother/son/daughter mixed doubles.

"You got served", they shouted as they ran away from the dead bodies.

Talk about adding insult to injury, or death, in this case.

Fake death.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 12:23:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 12:20:12 PM
Tomorrow: Kellyanne Conway tells the story of the little known 2012 Tennis Court Massacre, when evil Iranian immigrants machine gunned a hard working white family from the town of Tennis Court, Michigan who were enjoying a game of father/mother/son/daughter mixed doubles.

"You got served", they shouted as they ran away from the dead bodies.

Talk about adding insult to injury, or death, in this case.

Fake death.
And on Fox, a new movIe on the St :Valentines day massacre focusing on Spats Mohamed the Muslim gangster in late 1920s Chicago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 03, 2017, 12:42:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 12:20:12 PM
Tomorrow: Kellyanne Conway tells the story of the little known 2012 Tennis Court Massacre, when evil Iranian immigrants machine gunned a hard working white family from the town of Tennis Court, Michigan who were enjoying a game of father/mother/son/daughter mixed doubles.

"You got served", they shouted as they ran away from the dead bodies.

Talk about adding insult to injury, or death, in this case.

Fake death.

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 12:42:51 PM
The 2013 Pool Table massacre at Pool Table, Wisconsin was a mass slaughter that shocked the US, at least it will when Kellyanne tells us about it on Sunday.

Johnny Jones and Jerry Custer were two hard workin' rust belters just enjoyin' a well deserved beer an' a game a pool at their local bor after a hord week's work at the local steel plant, one of the few that the Kenyan traitor hadn't shut down.

But little did they know that a bunch of crazed Iraqis had lined the pockets of the table with IED's which would only go off when the 8 ball was potted.

Jerry played a beautiful swerve pot to set up the winning shot on the 8. "Watch this" he said to his buddy Johnny, and played a trick shot by cueing wrong handed behind his shoulder. The shot was good and the shot was true. And as the 8 ball dropped, Jerry, Johnny and everybuddeh' else in the bor were blown so high that you could hear the sound in Milwaukee.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 03, 2017, 12:54:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 04:42:01 AM
Trump, as you follow this story, begins to look less like a president and more like an intermediary, implementing an agenda that has been handed down to him.

Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 08:29:31 AM
Bannon is in charge

Absolutely. Trump is the archetypal embodiment of the "useful idiot" concept. When people point out the similarities of this movement to what went on in Germany and Italy in the thirties, they are either dismissed as hysterical or assured that Trump isn't smart enough to run a movement like this.

Well that's the point. He's not running it. The people running it are ultra-hard right activists, not to say neo-nazis. Their agenda does not include democracy, civil rights, shared economic growth or the common weal. Their agenda is power, white supremacy and war on all outsiders from minorities to foreign governments.

This particular walking, quacking duck doesn't goose-step and it quacks in (almost) English but it looks an awful lot like its German and Italian grandparents.

And no, I'm not predicting WWIII and tens of millions dead, though that's far from impossible given an enabling combination of circumstances, some of which are already in place. It doesn't have to be Armageddon to be authoritarian nationalist repression of the type that reduced German society to a fear-driven police state in the 1930s, a state of affairs that would have obtained whether or not they had gone to war.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 03, 2017, 01:07:28 PM

QuoteWell that's the point. He's not running it. The people running it are ultra-hard right activists, not to say neo-nazis. Their agenda does not include democracy, civil rights, shared economic growth or the common weal. Their agenda is power, white supremacy and war on all outsiders from minorities to foreign governments.

I was wondering what this reminded me of

(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/bannon-final.jpg?quality=85&w=840)

And it came to me - another monster

(http://cdn-02.independent.ie/irish-news/news/article30513608.ece/f9ca0/AUTOCROP/w620/2014-08-17_iri_2978987_I1.JPG)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 01:09:09 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 03, 2017, 12:54:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 04:42:01 AM
Trump, as you follow this story, begins to look less like a president and more like an intermediary, implementing an agenda that has been handed down to him.

Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 08:29:31 AM
Bannon is in charge

Absolutely. Trump is the archetypal embodiment of the "useful idiot" concept. When people point out the similarities of this movement to what went on in Germany and Italy in the thirties, they are either dismissed as hysterical or assured that Trump isn't smart enough to run a movement like this.

Well that's the point. He's not running it. The people running it are ultra-hard right activists, not to say neo-nazis. Their agenda does not include democracy, civil rights, shared economic growth or the common weal. Their agenda is power, white supremacy and war on all outsiders from minorities to foreign governments.

This particular walking, quacking duck doesn't goose-step and it quacks in (almost) English but it looks an awful lot like its German and Italian grandparents.

And no, I'm not predicting WWIII and tens of millions dead, though that's far from impossible given an enabling combination of circumstances, some of which are already in place. It doesn't have to be Armageddon to be authoritarian nationalist repression of the type that reduced German society to a fear-driven police state in the 1930s, a state of affairs that would have obtained whether or not they had gone to war.
Facism is a cancer. It starts small and then if not treated, metastasizes.

But hey, who cares about fascism - the real problem is the pontificating, Democrat-voting, Libtard-loving Hollywood luvvies who know nothing about real politics!

Pontificating, Democrat-voting, Libtard-loving Hollywood luvvies who know nothing about real politics, like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 01:42:45 PM
It's already looking like media manipulation,  mendacity from Conway, plamas for Fox viewers, and an open goal for corporate power.
I just think Bannon is nuts.


From the FT

"He is what he said he was: an enemy of free trade, immigration, regulation, abortion rights; a defender of the American fossil fuel industry and the use of torture. He won an election on these foundations, and his energetic pursuit of them as president is fitting and legitimate. The idea that Mr Trump is to be taken "seriously but not literally" — now worn smooth with repetition — was a canard all along."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 01:44:35 PM
When Tyrannosuarus Rex looks and sounds like by far the most reasonable person in your administration, you have a fascism problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 03, 2017, 01:49:13 PM
I think we need some light relief and a bit of funny ha-ha for a minute instead of funny grotesque.

I miss slapstick. (https://www.facebook.com/1617564115219546/videos/1618028331839791/)

OK. back to surreality ...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2017, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: stew on February 03, 2017, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 11:51:04 AM
But hey... at least Hillary isn't president... or something...

She hates you, she hates your class and the **** should be in prison you dumb bitch, what part of this is difficult for you to comprehend?
Dolt!

Take your meds stew.

And let's hope you hold the freak show that is the Trump administration to even a fraction of the "standard" you hold Hillary to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about

Where does someone like yourself lie in the blame spectrum whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about
the Tories have a majority of 16, Whitey.
And Brexit will probably kill the party.

Do Brits really want to eat chicken that has been washed in chlorine?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on February 03, 2017, 02:34:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 09:13:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 02, 2017, 07:52:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2017, 07:44:12 PM
Hate speech now should be controlled. The soi disant dangerous f**got is a provocateur

But then you run into the problem of who gets to define what is hate speech.
Start off with Twitter

Or here - false news like you report is as bad as hate speech - good thing is there are only about 28 actual real people who use this forum and most think you talk shite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on February 03, 2017, 02:34:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about
the Tories have a majority of 16, Whitey.
And Brexit will probably kill the party.

Do Brits really want to eat chicken that has been washed in chlorine?

You prove my point time and time again!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 03, 2017, 02:36:55 PM
Spotted at Berkeley - protesters with a sign that read "Hate free zone" as they were attacking the police and beating up people attending a speech. So there's a "good" hate and a "bad" hate ? LOL!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 02:37:51 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2017, 02:34:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about
the Tories have a majority of 16, Whitey.
And Brexit will probably kill the party.

Do Brits really want to eat chicken that has been washed in chlorine?

You prove my point time and time again!
Who are you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 03, 2017, 02:41:59 PM
I did have to laugh at the dublin protesters wanting to get in on the act. You have a corrupt government at home you should focus on instead, not worry about a 90 day travel ban somewhere else in the world that doesn't affect you.
Being stoked up by the usual suspects wanting to keep themselves relevant for funding at the taxpayers expense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:08:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about

Where does someone like yourself lie in the blame spectrum whitey?

Absolutely nowhere!

I vote for the best candidate regardless of what party they belong to. Unfortunately in MA, the Democrats almost exclusively pick sicken your hole SJW type candidates
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2017, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:08:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about

Where does someone like yourself lie in the blame spectrum whitey?

Absolutely nowhere!

I vote for the best candidate regardless of what party they belong to. Unfortunately in MA, the Democrats almost exclusively pick sicken your hole SJW type candidates

And the rest of us whom you're constantly lecturing DON'T vote for the best candidate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on February 03, 2017, 03:23:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 03, 2017, 02:36:55 PM
Spotted at Berkeley - protesters with a sign that read "Hate free zone" as they were attacking the police and beating up people attending a speech. So there's a "good" hate and a "bad" hate ? LOL!

You couldn't make it up, hypocrisy rules.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 03:28:47 PM
The Cato Institute looked into terrorist killings by Muslims from the 7 countries in the US since 1975  . None
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:29:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:08:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about

Where does someone like yourself lie in the blame spectrum whitey?

Absolutely nowhere!

I vote for the best candidate regardless of what party they belong to. Unfortunately in MA, the Democrats almost exclusively pick sicken your hole SJW type candidates

And the rest of us whom you're constantly lecturing DON'T vote for the best candidate?

Looking at who my progressive Facebook Friends vote for, they'd elect the most terrible crooked  Democratic candidate over a highly qualified, reasonable middle of the road  Republican who disagrees with them on even just one issue. Even if he/she agreed with them on everything they'd invent some reason not to vote for them


I'm sure you're more open minded than that though!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 03, 2017, 03:51:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:29:28 PM
a highly qualified, reasonable middle of the road  Republican

There are many highly qualified middle of the road Republicans. Not many of them stood for election for president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2017, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:29:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:08:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about

Where does someone like yourself lie in the blame spectrum whitey?

Absolutely nowhere!

I vote for the best candidate regardless of what party they belong to. Unfortunately in MA, the Democrats almost exclusively pick sicken your hole SJW type candidates

And the rest of us whom you're constantly lecturing DON'T vote for the best candidate?

Looking at who my progressive Facebook Friends vote for, they'd elect the most terrible crooked  Democratic candidate over a highly qualified, reasonable middle of the road  Republican who disagrees with them on even just one issue. Even if he/she agreed with them on everything they'd invent some reason not to vote for them


I'm sure you're more open minded than that though!

And you don't think that happens on the GOP side?

Just why, for example, do you think an outfit like the NRA wields such influence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 04:11:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:29:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:08:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about

Where does someone like yourself lie in the blame spectrum whitey?

Absolutely nowhere!

I vote for the best candidate regardless of what party they belong to. Unfortunately in MA, the Democrats almost exclusively pick sicken your hole SJW type candidates

And the rest of us whom you're constantly lecturing DON'T vote for the best candidate?

Looking at who my progressive Facebook Friends vote for, they'd elect the most terrible crooked  Democratic candidate over a highly qualified, reasonable middle of the road  Republican who disagrees with them on even just one issue. Even if he/she agreed with them on everything they'd invent some reason not to vote for them


I'm sure you're more open minded than that though!

And you don't think that happens on the GOP side?

Just why, for example, do you think an outfit like the NRA wields such influence?

Sure it does...."partisans"vote for the party not the person.

I'm not a partisan though, I'm a conservative independent who has donated money to and voted for Democrats on several occasions.

Have you ever donated money to or voted for a Republican?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2017, 04:28:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 04:11:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:29:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:08:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Democrats only have themselves to blame ramming their Uber PC agenda down everyone's throats for years.  This is the backlash.....and it's going to be very, very ugly.

The lefties the world over have painted themselves into a corner and offer no real opposition

Labour Party destroyed by the Tories in the last election

Brexit vote

Le Pen

Trump

It's time they got their heads out of their collective arses and started addressing issues their constituents actually care about

Where does someone like yourself lie in the blame spectrum whitey?

Absolutely nowhere!

I vote for the best candidate regardless of what party they belong to. Unfortunately in MA, the Democrats almost exclusively pick sicken your hole SJW type candidates

And the rest of us whom you're constantly lecturing DON'T vote for the best candidate?

Looking at who my progressive Facebook Friends vote for, they'd elect the most terrible crooked  Democratic candidate over a highly qualified, reasonable middle of the road  Republican who disagrees with them on even just one issue. Even if he/she agreed with them on everything they'd invent some reason not to vote for them


I'm sure you're more open minded than that though!

And you don't think that happens on the GOP side?

Just why, for example, do you think an outfit like the NRA wields such influence?

Sure it does...."partisans"vote for the party not the person.

I'm not a partisan though, I'm a conservative independent who has donated money to and voted for Democrats on several occasions.

Have you ever donated money to or voted for a Republican?

Yes. Bloomberg. One of our best mayors. I'd go for someone like him every day of the week. Unfortunately, the GOP doesn't serve those candidates up too often, especially in NY.  He went independent halfway through his term given their national move to the right. Now we get certifiable lunatics like Carl Paladino. The ladies from Maine, Chaffee (before he left too) and so on are the outliers now.

I'd have given John McCain a serious look, especially if he'd gone with Lieberman as he wanted to, but Palin busted any prospect of that. I would've gone for Obama-Biden in the end anyway, but McCain is still an example of someone I would definitely have seriously considered if the Dem candidate was poor. GW Bush - never in a million years. His pappy - as president, yes. As candidate, less so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 04:40:38 PM
Good for you......my cousin who was out protesting at JFK last weekend used that as an opportunity to blast Bloomberg.  She and all of her friends went absolutely ape shit when Bloomberg was allowed to speak at the DNC.....when he took the stage to denounce Trump!!!

Another progressive friend of mine posted a misleading Huff Po article to proclaim that John Kasich was "just as bad in not worse than Trump" and that he was probably going to sign some anti abortion bill....even though he had vetoed such a bill at least once in the past and had publicly d flared such bills went unconstitutional
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
I wish the Bloomberg wing of the GOP would get its act together and haul that party back towards the center. The lunatics have held sway for long enough. The word "conservative" is quickly becoming interchangeable with racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, Christian-fundamentalist, gun-toting, hateful, high-spending, anti-intellectual, and incompetent. I pine for the days when a centrist voter had an actual choice between the two parties. Nowadays nobody with more than tuppence worth of brains has any business voting Republican. They are the party of evil.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 05:01:24 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 03, 2017, 03:51:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 03:29:28 PM
a highly qualified, reasonable middle of the road  Republican

There are many highly qualified middle of the road Republicans. Not many of them stood for election for president.
The Kochs and their friends control the money. The GOP runs the US for the benefit of 3 million Americans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 03, 2017, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
The word "conservative" is quickly becoming interchangeable with racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, Christian-fundamentalist, gun-toting, hateful, high-spending, anti-intellectual, and incompetent.

You watch too much CNN. They repeat those phrases often enough to their mouth breathing audience.

By the way, are you planning on creating an individual reparations fund as proposed by Professor Michael Eric Dyson?
Such privileged individuals such as yourself should just empty your bank account. You should be ashamed of yourself if you don't

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 05:42:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
I wish the Bloomberg wing of the GOP would get its act together and haul that party back towards the center. The lunatics have held sway for long enough. The word "conservative" is quickly becoming interchangeable with racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, Christian-fundamentalist, gun-toting, hateful, high-spending, anti-intellectual, and incompetent. I pine for the days when a centrist voter had an actual choice between the two parties. Nowadays nobody with more than tuppence worth of brains has any business voting Republican. They are the party of evil.

Unfortunately any decent Republican who sticks his head above the parapet will be subject to a systemic campaign of character assasination by your buddies in the liberal media

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html%3F0p19G%3De

Quote On Romney from the article:


"Four years ago, he was a bloodsucking capitalist vampire whose indictment of Obamacare was ipso facto proof of his racism. In The Daily Beast, he was called a "race-mongering pyromaniac." On MSNBC, he was accused, by a black commentator, of the "niggerization" of Obama into "the scary black man who we've been trained to fear."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 03, 2017, 06:14:50 PM
I think the republican primaries take care of that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 03, 2017, 06:21:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 05:42:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
I wish the Bloomberg wing of the GOP would get its act together and haul that party back towards the center. The lunatics have held sway for long enough. The word "conservative" is quickly becoming interchangeable with racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, Christian-fundamentalist, gun-toting, hateful, high-spending, anti-intellectual, and incompetent. I pine for the days when a centrist voter had an actual choice between the two parties. Nowadays nobody with more than tuppence worth of brains has any business voting Republican. They are the party of evil.

Unfortunately any decent Republican who sticks his head above the parapet will be subject to a systemic campaign of character assasination by your buddies in the liberal media

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html%3F0p19G%3De

Quote On Romney from the article:


"Four years ago, he was a bloodsucking capitalist vampire whose indictment of Obamacare was ipso facto proof of his racism. In The Daily Beast, he was called a "race-mongering pyromaniac." On MSNBC, he was accused, by a black commentator, of the "niggerization" of Obama into "the scary black man who we've been trained to fear."

I think the republican primaries take care of that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 06:36:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 03, 2017, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
The word "conservative" is quickly becoming interchangeable with racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, Christian-fundamentalist, gun-toting, hateful, high-spending, anti-intellectual, and incompetent.

You watch too much CNN. They repeat those phrases often enough to their mouth breathing audience.

By the way, are you planning on creating an individual reparations fund as proposed by Professor Michael Eric Dyson?
Such privileged individuals such as yourself should just empty your bank account. You should be ashamed of yourself if you don't

*snore*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 06:39:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 05:42:06 PM
Unfortunately any decent Republican who sticks his head above the parapet will be subject to a systemic campaign of character assasination by your buddies in the liberal media

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html%3F0p19G%3De

Quote On Romney from the article:


"Four years ago, he was a bloodsucking capitalist vampire whose indictment of Obamacare was ipso facto proof of his racism. In The Daily Beast, he was called a "race-mongering pyromaniac." On MSNBC, he was accused, by a black commentator, of the "niggerization" of Obama into "the scary black man who we've been trained to fear."

Romney was a bully in school who kicked the crap out of a kid who was too "feminine" for his liking, strapped a dog carrier to the roof of his car on a long road trip, and came across as a sociopath to anyone who had any dealings with him. Yeah, that makes him "decent" by modern Republican standards. BTW, how's  the campaign going to repeal Romneycare in Mass.?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2017, 06:57:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 05:42:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
I wish the Bloomberg wing of the GOP would get its act together and haul that party back towards the center. The lunatics have held sway for long enough. The word "conservative" is quickly becoming interchangeable with racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, Christian-fundamentalist, gun-toting, hateful, high-spending, anti-intellectual, and incompetent. I pine for the days when a centrist voter had an actual choice between the two parties. Nowadays nobody with more than tuppence worth of brains has any business voting Republican. They are the party of evil.

Unfortunately any decent Republican who sticks his head above the parapet will be subject to a systemic campaign of character assasination by your buddies in the liberal media

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html%3F0p19G%3De

Quote On Romney from the article:


"Four years ago, he was a bloodsucking capitalist vampire whose indictment of Obamacare was ipso facto proof of his racism. In The Daily Beast, he was called a "race-mongering pyromaniac." On MSNBC, he was accused, by a black commentator, of the "niggerization" of Obama into "the scary black man who we've been trained to fear."

Oh come off it!! Now you're being completely disingenuous! ;D

The GOP primaries pummeled Romney as a "vulture capitalist" - you don't remember Gingrich solemnly warning the world about Romney and Bain Capital? Wasn't there a half hour infomercial commissioned and paid for by Gingrich on the subject? Romney had to declare himself a "severe" conservative who would make immigrants "self-deport". That was months and months before Obama ever got near him.

And racial hype aside (which I do not recall being in any way, shape or form being a part of the campaign arsenal used against him, which is not to say it wasn't used by idiotic individuals), Rooney's hypocrisy on Obamacare was completely fair game, given his own accomplishments while governor.

Romney ran as one thing, then tried to "etch a sketch" into another, to the extent that he spent the final debate pretty much agreeing with Obama on everything, domestically.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 03, 2017, 07:00:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 06:36:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 03, 2017, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
The word "conservative" is quickly becoming interchangeable with racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, Christian-fundamentalist, gun-toting, hateful, high-spending, anti-intellectual, and incompetent.

You watch too much CNN. They repeat those phrases often enough to their mouth breathing audience.

By the way, are you planning on creating an individual reparations fund as proposed by Professor Michael Eric Dyson?
Such privileged individuals such as yourself should just empty your bank account. You should be ashamed of yourself if you don't

*snore*

That's one way of avoiding answering.  If you were really invested in it you'd be writing a check.
Or maybe you realise that sort of guilt tripping is wrong but haven't the balls to call it out.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2017, 07:05:10 PM
And this "it's all your fault, liberals" nonsense is just dumb.

The GOP chose Trump, not us. The likes of Rubio or Jeb would probably have beaten Hillary too and they'd be governing as typical, hardline conservatives, not the undisciplined, far right extremist man-baby that is in the White House now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 07:21:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 03, 2017, 06:39:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 05:42:06 PM
Unfortunately any decent Republican who sticks his head above the parapet will be subject to a systemic campaign of character assasination by your buddies in the liberal media

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html%3F0p19G%3De

Quote On Romney from the article:


"Four years ago, he was a bloodsucking capitalist vampire whose indictment of Obamacare was ipso facto proof of his racism. In The Daily Beast, he was called a "race-mongering pyromaniac." On MSNBC, he was accused, by a black commentator, of the "niggerization" of Obama into "the scary black man who we've been trained to fear."

Romney was a bully in school who kicked the crap out of a kid who was too "feminine" for his liking, strapped a dog carrier to the roof of his car on a long road trip, and came across as a sociopath to anyone who had any dealings with him. Yeah, that makes him "decent" by modern Republican standards. BTW, how's  the campaign going to repeal Romneycare in Mass.?

And Obama ate a dog....according to his autobiography
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 07:33:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 07:05:10 PM
And this "it's all your fault, liberals" nonsense is just dumb.

The GOP chose Trump, not us. The likes of Rubio or Jeb would probably have beaten Hillary too and they'd be governing as typical, hardline conservatives, not the undisciplined, far right extremist man-baby that is in the White House now.

Why did milions and millions of people who voted for Obama TWICE, turn round and vote for Trump this year?


More College educated women voted for Trump than voting for Hillary....that's pretty incredible?  Why do you think they did that?

(Think about it.  They could have made history and elected a woman to the highest office in the land, but instead they voted for a crass, obnoxious, adulterous clown who boasted about sexually assaulting women)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 07:56:39 PM
The GOP is split into 3 factions. Ideologues like Ryan. Breitbart ers like Bannon. And semi housetrained.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2017, 08:21:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 07:33:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 07:05:10 PM
And this "it's all your fault, liberals" nonsense is just dumb.

The GOP chose Trump, not us. The likes of Rubio or Jeb would probably have beaten Hillary too and they'd be governing as typical, hardline conservatives, not the undisciplined, far right extremist man-baby that is in the White House now.

Why did milions and millions of people who voted for Obama TWICE, turn round and vote for Trump this year?


More College educated women voted for Trump than voting for Hillary....that's pretty incredible?  Why do you think they did that?

(Think about it.  They could have made history and elected a woman to the highest office in the land, but instead they voted for a crass, obnoxious, adulterous clown who boasted about sexually assaulting women)

Im sure some believed Hillary was less trustworthy than Trump, some were swing voters who wanted a change after eight years of a Democratic White House, some fell for the "Make America Great Again" bullshit and the scare mongering. I'm sure there's tonnes of other reasons.

Still doesn't change the fact that the GOP chose and have fallen in behind Trump. He's YOUR side's man. That a small slice of OUR side fell for it doesn't change that.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 03, 2017, 08:28:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 07:33:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 07:05:10 PM
And this "it's all your fault, liberals" nonsense is just dumb.

The GOP chose Trump, not us. The likes of Rubio or Jeb would probably have beaten Hillary too and they'd be governing as typical, hardline conservatives, not the undisciplined, far right extremist man-baby that is in the White House now.

Why did milions and millions of people who voted for Obama TWICE, turn round and vote for Trump this year?


More College educated women voted for Trump than voting for Hillary....that's pretty incredible?  Why do you think they did that?

(Think about it.  They could have made history and elected a woman to the highest office in the land, but instead they voted for a crass, obnoxious, adulterous clown who boasted about sexually assaulting women)

Where do you get this stuff from? I knew its wrong before even researching it. You can't even write this as a mistake about only white women this time because they voted for Clinton as well

This is what an alternative fact is whitey


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 08:52:30 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/02/the-leaks-coming-out-of-the-trump-white-house-right-now-are-totally-bananas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 09:20:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 08:52:30 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/02/the-leaks-coming-out-of-the-trump-white-house-right-now-are-totally-bananas
I have a Gwen Stefani song in my head now after reading that.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 09:36:55 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h

Plus
And @realDonaldTrump issued an order that puts 2 @GoldmanSachs execs in charge of gutting the rules that protect you from financial fraud.


Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h
After literally standing next to Wall St CEOs, @realDonaldTrump made it easier for investment advisors to cheat you out of your savings.

Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h
@realDonaldTrump talked a big game about Wall St during his campaign – but as @POTUS, we're finding out whose side he's really on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 03, 2017, 09:38:49 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 03, 2017, 08:28:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 07:33:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 07:05:10 PM
And this "it's all your fault, liberals" nonsense is just dumb.
The GOP chose Trump, not us. The likes of Rubio or Jeb would probably have beaten Hillary too and they'd be governing as typical, hardline conservatives, not the undisciplined, far right extremist man-baby that is in the White House now.
Why did milions and millions of people who voted for Obama TWICE, turn round and vote for Trump this year?
More College educated women voted for Trump than voting for Hillary....that's pretty incredible?  Why do you think they did that?
(Think about it.  They could have made history and elected a woman to the highest office in the land, but instead they voted for a crass, obnoxious, adulterous clown who boasted about sexually assaulting women)
Where do you get this stuff from? I knew its wrong before even researching it. You can't even write this as a mistake about only white women this time because they voted for Clinton as well

This is what an alternative fact is whitey

Don't be too harsh on him. He is probably still in shock over the Bowling Green Massacre.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 10:01:42 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2017/jan/22/kellyanne-conway-trump-press-secretary-alternative-facts-video

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2017/feb/03/kellyanne-conway-bowling-green-massacre-trump-refugee-ban-video
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 09:36:55 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h

Plus
And @realDonaldTrump issued an order that puts 2 @GoldmanSachs execs in charge of gutting the rules that protect you from financial fraud.


Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h
After literally standing next to Wall St CEOs, @realDonaldTrump made it easier for investment advisors to cheat you out of your savings.

Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h
@realDonaldTrump talked a big game about Wall St during his campaign – but as @POTUS, we're finding out whose side he's really on.

Funny how the Trumpflakes here don't much like discussing or defending policy.

Very important to keep the discussion "on topic" for them - which is whining about CNN, "libtards", "SJWs" and "snowflakes" etc.

They need their own little safe space, after all.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 03, 2017, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 03, 2017, 08:28:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 07:33:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2017, 07:05:10 PM
And this "it's all your fault, liberals" nonsense is just dumb.

The GOP chose Trump, not us. The likes of Rubio or Jeb would probably have beaten Hillary too and they'd be governing as typical, hardline conservatives, not the undisciplined, far right extremist man-baby that is in the White House now.

Why did milions and millions of people who voted for Obama TWICE, turn round and vote for Trump this year?


More College educated women voted for Trump than voting for Hillary....that's pretty incredible?  Why do you think they did that?

(Think about it.  They could have made history and elected a woman to the highest office in the land, but instead they voted for a crass, obnoxious, adulterous clown who boasted about sexually assaulting women)

Where do you get this stuff from? I knew its wrong before even researching it. You can't even write this as a mistake about only white women this time because they voted for Clinton as well

This is what an alternative fact is whitey

Whitey is a WUM who never lets facts get in the way of his BS. He is rarely factually correct and his posts are strewn with basic errors.  I assume that most are getting a lot of enjoyment out of responding to the rubbish he pulls from Alt Right universe. I for one am waiting for him to answer a direct question in a factual and a correct way but I am not holding my breath. In the meantime there is enjoyment to be had reading the way he avoids facts like the plague.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2017, 10:57:47 PM
Democrats are going to sweep the decks in 2018...Republicans are going down big time and will be destroyed

The new protest movement will make the Tea Party look like a footnote in history

You heard it here first
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 03, 2017, 11:05:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2017, 10:57:47 PM
Democrats are going to sweep the decks in 2018...Republicans are going down big time and will be destroyed

The new protest movement will make the Tea Party look like a footnote in history

You heard it here first

Most sensible thing I've seen you post on here... probably ever!!

Trump is a disaster and the passion and protest that has been missing from the left since Bernie fell by the wayside will not go missing in 4 years time thank the Lord!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 04, 2017, 02:52:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 09:36:55 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h

Plus
And @realDonaldTrump issued an order that puts 2 @GoldmanSachs execs in charge of gutting the rules that protect you from financial fraud.


Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h
After literally standing next to Wall St CEOs, @realDonaldTrump made it easier for investment advisors to cheat you out of your savings.

Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h
@realDonaldTrump talked a big game about Wall St during his campaign – but as @POTUS, we're finding out whose side he's really on.

Funny how the Trumpflakes here don't much like discussing or defending policy.

Very important to keep the discussion "on topic" for them - which is whining about CNN, "libtards", "SJWs" and "snowflakes" etc.

They need their own little safe space, after all.

Sid you are an absolute balloon, no,harm to you son.

I remember the time when Obama got elected and the republicans took to the streeta and rooted and burned the flag and kicked the sh it,out of Obama supporters for winning the election............. Oh wait, didn't happen.

The liberals disgust me, you are accountable for nothing and you stand for less than nothing, Trump is an idiot savant in my opinion but he was elected by the people for the people, so yet again, suck,it up and make sure the hoor does not get reelected in 2020 you whinging negative butches, move on already.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 07:21:26 AM
Stew
Why don't you condemn the failure of liberals and snowflake Muslims to condemn the Bowling Green massacre? The media were a joke. Even Fox covered it up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 09:46:56 AM
Bill O'Reilly says he warned President Trump that opponents may try to impeach him http://politi.co/2jIrhcX  via @POLITICO_Media
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 09:57:04 AM
1.   Christopher Hayes ‏@chrislhayes 21 h
Christopher Hayes retweeted  Donald J. Trump
Not *one word* about the Muslims slaughtered in their house of worship by a white supremacist Trump fan. Not one.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 21 h 

A new radical Islamic terrorist has just attacked in Louvre Museum in Paris. Tourists were locked down. France on edge again. GET SMART U.S.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2017, 11:13:20 AM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 02:52:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2017, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 03, 2017, 09:36:55 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h

Plus
And @realDonaldTrump issued an order that puts 2 @GoldmanSachs execs in charge of gutting the rules that protect you from financial fraud.


Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h
After literally standing next to Wall St CEOs, @realDonaldTrump made it easier for investment advisors to cheat you out of your savings.

Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  4 h
@realDonaldTrump talked a big game about Wall St during his campaign – but as @POTUS, we're finding out whose side he's really on.

Funny how the Trumpflakes here don't much like discussing or defending policy.

Very important to keep the discussion "on topic" for them - which is whining about CNN, "libtards", "SJWs" and "snowflakes" etc.

They need their own little safe space, after all.

Sid you are an absolute balloon, no,harm to you son.

I remember the time when Obama got elected and the republicans took to the streeta and rooted and burned the flag and kicked the sh it,out of Obama supporters for winning the election............. Oh wait, didn't happen.

The liberals disgust me, you are accountable for nothing and you stand for less than nothing, Trump is an idiot savant in my opinion but he was elected by the people for the people, so yet again, suck,it up and make sure the hoor does not get reelected in 2020 you whinging negative butches, move on already.

To quote your good friend Whitey (I wonder how he got that user name by the way  ;D), keep it up, Stew, keep it up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2017, 11:19:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 09:57:04 AM
1.   Christopher Hayes ‏@chrislhayes 21 h
Christopher Hayes retweeted  Donald J. Trump
Not *one word* about the Muslims slaughtered in their house of worship by a white supremacist Trump fan. Not one.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 21 h 

A new radical Islamic terrorist has just attacked in Louvre Museum in Paris. Tourists were locked down. France on edge again. GET SMART U.S.

Funny how French and Belgians aren't banned too, isn't it? Their own citizens were behind recent terrorist atrocities there.

So surely, by Tiny Hands' standards, you'd think they'd be a threat, no?

Surely there would be large support in the US for banning the French in particular - the memory of their shameful cheese-eating surrender monkeys act when they wouldn't help the Yanks invade Iraq is still strong, after all.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 04, 2017, 12:16:24 PM
"I'm certain the president will not like this decision" - Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38864253
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 12:25:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2017, 11:19:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 09:57:04 AM
1.   Christopher Hayes ‏@chrislhayes 21 h
Christopher Hayes retweeted  Donald J. Trump
Not *one word* about the Muslims slaughtered in their house of worship by a white supremacist Trump fan. Not one.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 21 h 

A new radical Islamic terrorist has just attacked in Louvre Museum in Paris. Tourists were locked down. France on edge again. GET SMART U.S.

Funny how French and Belgians aren't banned too, isn't it? Their own citizens were behind recent terrorist atrocities there.

So surely, by Tiny Hands' standards, you'd think they'd be a threat, no?

Surely there would be large support in the US for banning the French in particular - the memory of their shameful cheese-eating surrender monkeys act when they wouldn't help the Yanks invade Iraq is still strong, after all.
At the moment he is solving imaginary problems . He has no policies for the real stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2017, 01:54:03 PM
Ah those polls that said Trump had no chance!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omagh_gael on February 04, 2017, 04:47:16 PM
Hold up, what Muslim laws (I take you mean Sharia law) have been brought into the UK legislature?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 04, 2017, 04:47:45 PM
QuoteDonald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 21 h 

A new radical Islamic terrorist has just attacked in Louvre Museum in Paris. Tourists were locked down. France on edge again. GET SMART U.S. 

What a f**king joke.

6 Muslims are slaughtered in their own mosque in his neighbouring country and not a peep from the Orange one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!

So desperate refugees = murderous thugs. Right stew.  ::)

How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2017, 05:04:40 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!

Just like what would have happened if a British soldier or agent had decided to go out on their own on a Saturday night in, say, South Armagh, where you're from, if I remember correctly.

Like say, Robert Nairac. Who did go out on his own to a bar in Drumintee. And ended up in a meat blender in a factory in Dundalk some hours later.

And that of course, according to you, would have been good reason for Britain to ban all Irish people from going there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2017, 05:33:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!

So desperate refugees = murderous thugs. Right stew.  ::)

How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?

The Marathon bombers attempted massacre on a grand scale!

The San Bernadino massacre!

Fort Hood Massacre!

Orlando Nightclub massacre,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2017, 05:44:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 05:33:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!

So desperate refugees = murderous thugs. Right stew.  ::)

How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?

The Marathon bombers attempted massacre on a grand scale!

The San Bernadino massacre!

Fort Hood Massacre!

Orlando Nightclub massacre,

But this isn't about Muslims of course, or so Tiny Hands and his cult-like followers claim, all the while proving that's exactly what it's about.

Muslims.

And nothing else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 05:33:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!

So desperate refugees = murderous thugs. Right stew.  ::)

How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?

The Marathon bombers attempted massacre on a grand scale!

The San Bernadino massacre!

Fort Hood Massacre!

Orlando Nightclub massacre,

How does that rate compare to white Christian males?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 04, 2017, 06:27:45 PM
Why am I not surprised that none of the right wing bigots here even mentioned the  Quebec Mosque murders, never mind condemn them.
Then we get the genius complaining that a US invader can't safely walk about in a country where he has no business.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2017, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 05:33:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!

So desperate refugees = murderous thugs. Right stew.  ::)

How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?

The Marathon bombers attempted massacre on a grand scale!

The San Bernadino massacre!

Fort Hood Massacre!

Orlando Nightclub massacre,

How does that rate compare to white Christian males?

White Christian male refugees.......zero attempts at mass murder as far as I know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2017, 06:27:45 PM
Why am I not surprised that none of the right wing bigots here even mentioned the  Quebec Mosque murders, never mind condemn them.
Then we get the genius complaining that a US invader can't safely walk about in a country where he has no business.

I will give you a clue.....it's in the title of the thread
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 05:33:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!

So desperate refugees = murderous thugs. Right stew.  ::)

How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?

The Marathon bombers attempted massacre on a grand scale!

The San Bernadino massacre!

Fort Hood Massacre!

Orlando Nightclub massacre,

How does that rate compare to white Christian males?

White Christian male refugees.......zero attempts at mass murder as far as I know

So it's only refugees that count now?

How many people have Muslim refugees killed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:08:41 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 04, 2017, 04:47:16 PM
Hold up, what Muslim laws (I take you mean Sharia law) have been brought into the UK legislature?

They don't use the government court system.  There are thought to be around 100 Sharia Law courts operating throughout the UK dispensing their own justice.

The beheadings are great craic altogether.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2017, 07:11:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:08:41 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 04, 2017, 04:47:16 PM
Hold up, what Muslim laws (I take you mean Sharia law) have been brought into the UK legislature?

They don't use the government court system.  There are thought to be around 100 Sharia Law courts operating throughout the UK dispensing their own justice.

OK. So, the answer to the question is "none".

Great. Didn't take long to establish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:08:41 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 04, 2017, 04:47:16 PM
Hold up, what Muslim laws (I take you mean Sharia law) have been brought into the UK legislature?

They don't use the government court system.  There are thought to be around 100 Sharia Law courts operating throughout the UK dispensing their own justice.

The beheadings are great craic altogether.

Muslims are beheading each other in the U.K.?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:16:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:08:41 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 04, 2017, 04:47:16 PM
Hold up, what Muslim laws (I take you mean Sharia law) have been brought into the UK legislature?

They don't use the government court system.  There are thought to be around 100 Sharia Law courts operating throughout the UK dispensing their own justice.

The beheadings are great craic altogether.

Muslims are beheading each other in the U.K.?

Typical liberal making shit up again.
I thought you'd know Sharia law off by heart seeing as you're such a big fan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 07:22:26 PM
50000 Americans a year die from drug overdoses. No interest in dealing with this. I wonder why.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:25:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:16:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:08:41 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 04, 2017, 04:47:16 PM
Hold up, what Muslim laws (I take you mean Sharia law) have been brought into the UK legislature?

They don't use the government court system.  There are thought to be around 100 Sharia Law courts operating throughout the UK dispensing their own justice.

The beheadings are great craic altogether.

Muslims are beheading each other in the U.K.?

Typical liberal making shit up again.
I thought you'd know Sharia law off by heart.

What did I make up? I asked a simple question in response to your post? Hence the question mark : "?"

And why would I know sharia law off by heart?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
So all these liberal protestors are hysterical about

- Despicable treatment of women
- Human rights issues
- LBGTQ rights issues
- A totalitarian regime
- An unjust court system

and they are pissed at what they perceive as Muslim rights not being upheld? Educate yourselves for f**ks sake.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
So all these liberal protestors are hysterical about

- Despicable treatment of women
- Human rights issues
- LBGTQ rights issues
- A totalitarian regime
- An unjust court system

and they are pissed at what they perceive as Muslim rights not being upheld? Educate yourselves for f**ks sake.

Your logic here seems to be taking in muslim refugees and allowing them to assimilate as hundreds of thousands of their co-religionists have done previously = supporting the implementation of sharia law.

Is that right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2017, 07:39:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 05:33:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!

So desperate refugees = murderous thugs. Right stew.  ::)

How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?

The Marathon bombers attempted massacre on a grand scale!

The San Bernadino massacre!

Fort Hood Massacre!

Orlando Nightclub massacre,

How does that rate compare to white Christian males?

White Christian male refugees.......zero attempts at mass murder as far as I know

So it's only refugees that count now?

How many people have Muslim refugees killed?

No....but we're discussing refugees right now. There's a whole other thread on gun culture

Marathon bombers were asylum seekers not refugees....a hair that liberals are happy to split all day long.

And faux asylum seekers to boot.....who somehow managed to con their way in
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:44:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
So all these liberal protestors are hysterical about

- Despicable treatment of women
- Human rights issues
- LBGTQ rights issues
- A totalitarian regime
- An unjust court system

and they are pissed at what they perceive as Muslim rights not being upheld? Educate yourselves for f**ks sake.

Your logic here seems to be taking in muslim refugees and allowing them to assimilate as hundreds of thousands of their co-religionists have done previously = supporting the implementation of sharia law.

Is that right?

You can do your own research and educate yourself of how this is gradually pushed on a host country. There are plenty of articles to google.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 07:39:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 05:33:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
More Americans favor the ban than disapprove of it...Trump/Bannon playing a blinder...keep it up


The ones who are up in arms wouldnt vote for a Republican if their lives depended on it so he doesnt give a crap what they think

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/01/heres-how-many-americans-support-trumps-travel-ban/


The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that nearly a majority of 49 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with the ban, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed. Another ten percent were undecided.

I watched a video last night of an American Soldier in the middle East, he was with a bunch of Muslim civilians and he was listening to them complaining about Trumps executive orders, he asked them a simple question and it was this, " What would happen to me if I decided to go into town tonight on my own"
Their response was that the locals would come together, grab him, beat him until beat death and then "probably decapitate him"
He responded by thanking them for their honesty and then asked them why a President would let people like these into the United States, they had no answer because there is none.

The Muslim world demands infidels conform to their law then, hypocritically when they go to other countries they demand the law is changed to suit them, they succeeded in England for God's sake!

So desperate refugees = murderous thugs. Right stew.  ::)

How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?

The Marathon bombers attempted massacre on a grand scale!

The San Bernadino massacre!

Fort Hood Massacre!

Orlando Nightclub massacre,

How does that rate compare to white Christian males?

White Christian male refugees.......zero attempts at mass murder as far as I know

So it's only refugees that count now?

How many people have Muslim refugees killed?

No....but we're discussing refugees right now. There's a whole other thread on gun culture

Marathon bombers were asylum seekers not refugees....a hair that liberals are happy to split all day long.

And faux asylum seekers to boot.....who somehow managed to con their way in

Spare me your "liberal" generalizations and stereotypes and address what I wrote.

I asked stew about his apparent lumping in of all would-be refugees with thugs who would apparently engage in a mob murder of a US soldier, and responded with the implication that there is no evidence among Muslims in the US to support such an assertion.

You responded with a list of mass murders by mostly US citizens and legal residents and two long-settled refugees who basically grew up here.

So what exactly is your point? That there is a serious risk to the US from admitting Muslim refugees and so they should not get in?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:44:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
So all these liberal protestors are hysterical about

- Despicable treatment of women
- Human rights issues
- LBGTQ rights issues
- A totalitarian regime
- An unjust court system

and they are pissed at what they perceive as Muslim rights not being upheld? Educate yourselves for f**ks sake.

Your logic here seems to be taking in muslim refugees and allowing them to assimilate as hundreds of thousands of their co-religionists have done previously = supporting the implementation of sharia law.

Is that right?

You can do your own research and educate yourself of how this is gradually pushed on a host country. There are plenty of articles to google.

Why don't you just give us a few examples?

Where has sharia law been imposed on the west? Or even a serious attempt at imposition?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2017, 08:00:47 PM
Here is the question you asked:


"How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?"

And this is the question I answered
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 08:06:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 08:00:47 PM
Here is the question you asked:


"How many Muslims in the US have committed murder?"

And this is the question I answered

So nothing implicated or no comment on the matter beyond listing those few examples?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 04, 2017, 08:09:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2017, 06:27:45 PM
Why am I not surprised that none of the right wing bigots here even mentioned the  Quebec Mosque murders, never mind condemn them.
Then we get the genius complaining that a US invader can't safely walk about in a country where he has no business.

I will give you a clue.....it's in the title of the thread

So he can tweet about a terrorist even in France yet he can't tweet about one in Canada?

What's the difference???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 08:14:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:44:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
So all these liberal protestors are hysterical about

- Despicable treatment of women
- Human rights issues
- LBGTQ rights issues
- A totalitarian regime
- An unjust court system

and they are pissed at what they perceive as Muslim rights not being upheld? Educate yourselves for f**ks sake.

Your logic here seems to be taking in muslim refugees and allowing them to assimilate as hundreds of thousands of their co-religionists have done previously = supporting the implementation of sharia law.

Is that right?

You can do your own research and educate yourself of how this is gradually pushed on a host country. There are plenty of articles to google.

Why don't you just give us a few examples?

Where has sharia law been imposed on the west? Or even a serious attempt at imposition?

So you're unaware that parts of England are pretty much muslim only. Start there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 08:15:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 04, 2017, 08:09:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2017, 06:27:45 PM
Why am I not surprised that none of the right wing bigots here even mentioned the  Quebec Mosque murders, never mind condemn them.
Then we get the genius complaining that a US invader can't safely walk about in a country where he has no business.

I will give you a clue.....it's in the title of the thread

So he can tweet about a terrorist even in France yet he can't tweet about one in Canada?

What's the difference???

Why doesn't that smug p***k trudeau just take in all the worlds refugees? Problem solved.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 08:14:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:44:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
So all these liberal protestors are hysterical about

- Despicable treatment of women
- Human rights issues
- LBGTQ rights issues
- A totalitarian regime
- An unjust court system

and they are pissed at what they perceive as Muslim rights not being upheld? Educate yourselves for f**ks sake.

Your logic here seems to be taking in muslim refugees and allowing them to assimilate as hundreds of thousands of their co-religionists have done previously = supporting the implementation of sharia law.

Is that right?

You can do your own research and educate yourself of how this is gradually pushed on a host country. There are plenty of articles to google.

Why don't you just give us a few examples?

Where has sharia law been imposed on the west? Or even a serious attempt at imposition?

So you're unaware that parts of England are pretty much muslim only. Start there.

If you have facts, then list them.

Otherwise it's just baseless innuendo and scaremongering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2017, 08:31:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 04, 2017, 08:09:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2017, 06:27:45 PM
Why am I not surprised that none of the right wing bigots here even mentioned the  Quebec Mosque murders, never mind condemn them.
Then we get the genius complaining that a US invader can't safely walk about in a country where he has no business.

I will give you a clue.....it's in the title of the thread

So he can tweet about a terrorist even in France yet he can't tweet about one in Canada?

What's the difference???

This is the question that was asked:

"Why am I not surprised that none of the right wing bigots here even mentioned the  Quebec Mosque murders, never mind condemn them. "

How could we answer a question we were never asked in the first place?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 04, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Do whitey stew and Co condemn or agree with the murders in the Quebec Mosque?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 04, 2017, 08:48:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 08:15:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 04, 2017, 08:09:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2017, 06:27:45 PM
Why am I not surprised that none of the right wing bigots here even mentioned the  Quebec Mosque murders, never mind condemn them.
Then we get the genius complaining that a US invader can't safely walk about in a country where he has no business.

I will give you a clue.....it's in the title of the thread

So he can tweet about a terrorist even in France yet he can't tweet about one in Canada?

What's the difference???

Why doesn't that smug p***k trudeau just take in all the worlds refugees? Problem solved.

Why don't you answer the question?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 08:55:29 PM
http://theweek.com/articles/675240/how-kellyanne-conway-became-greatest-spin-doctor-modern-american-history
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 09:00:20 PM
‏MatthewYglesias @mattyglesias

Every career person I've spoken to says it's worse than you realize.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 04, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
"Educate yourself"

I get it now, fox is an Irish MMA fan. That explains the stupidity and somewhat prickly nature whilst still, dumbfoundingly, maintaining a smug self assurance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 08:14:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:44:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
So all these liberal protestors are hysterical about

- Despicable treatment of women
- Human rights issues
- LBGTQ rights issues
- A totalitarian regime
- An unjust court system

and they are pissed at what they perceive as Muslim rights not being upheld? Educate yourselves for f**ks sake.

Your logic here seems to be taking in muslim refugees and allowing them to assimilate as hundreds of thousands of their co-religionists have done previously = supporting the implementation of sharia law.

Is that right?

You can do your own research and educate yourself of how this is gradually pushed on a host country. There are plenty of articles to google.

Why don't you just give us a few examples?

Where has sharia law been imposed on the west? Or even a serious attempt at imposition?

So you're unaware that parts of England are pretty much muslim only. Start there.

If you have facts, then list them.

Otherwise it's just baseless innuendo and scaremongering.

Theresa May has already indicated sharia law is in effect in britain. Sharia courts to settle divorces, domestics,  property issues etc. are in use.
You can stick your head in the sand if you like J70.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 04, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
"Educate yourself"

I get it now, fox is an Irish MMA fan. That explains the stupidity and somewhat prickly nature whilst still, dumbfoundingly, maintaining a smug self assurance.

If you're going in for guessing about someones character then I think you're a twat ;)

Did you get all upset I called trudeau a smug p***k then try to copy my words? Show some originality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 09:26:44 PM
It's mostly bullshit from the White House

Jim Sciutto ‏@jimsciutto  1 d


Early on WH said only 100 or so affected: Over 100,000 visas revoked, govt lawyer says in Virginia court #travelban


Daniel Dale ‏@ddale8 5 h 

Obscure websites published a fake story that Kuwait was copying Trump's ban. The president Facebooked it, got 67,000 shares.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2017, 09:41:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Do whitey stew and Co condemn or agree with the murders in the Quebec Mosque?

Yes it was terrible and wrong. Many of these mass killings (and ill put the Boston Bombing and Pulse nightclub in that list) are perpetrated by people with mental illness more so than truly motivated by "terrorism"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2017, 10:12:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 08:14:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:44:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2017, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 04, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
So all these liberal protestors are hysterical about

- Despicable treatment of women
- Human rights issues
- LBGTQ rights issues
- A totalitarian regime
- An unjust court system

and they are pissed at what they perceive as Muslim rights not being upheld? Educate yourselves for f**ks sake.

Your logic here seems to be taking in muslim refugees and allowing them to assimilate as hundreds of thousands of their co-religionists have done previously = supporting the implementation of sharia law.

Is that right?

You can do your own research and educate yourself of how this is gradually pushed on a host country. There are plenty of articles to google.

Why don't you just give us a few examples?

Where has sharia law been imposed on the west? Or even a serious attempt at imposition?

So you're unaware that parts of England are pretty much muslim only. Start there.

If you have facts, then list them.

Otherwise it's just baseless innuendo and scaremongering.

Theresa May has already indicated sharia law is in effect in britain. Sharia courts to settle divorces, domestics,  property issues etc. are in use.
You can stick your head in the sand if you like J70.

So what legal standing do the rulings of such courts have?

Are British laws being broken or ignored? How would this compare to, say, a catholic church marriage or annulment?

If some eejit DID get granted the right to commit an honour killing in one of these courts (assuming they grant such requests), does that serve as a murder defense in a crown prosecution?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 12:13:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 04, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
"Educate yourself"

I get it now, fox is an Irish MMA fan. That explains the stupidity and somewhat prickly nature whilst still, dumbfoundingly, maintaining a smug self assurance.

Trump supporters on the internet often remind me of the way WWF wrestlers would act in those promo segments to camera in the early 1990s, where they would "call out" an opponent.

It's like they're trying desperately to put on a front and convince themselves that what they're saying is true while really knowing that the whole thing is an act, and complete bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2017, 03:10:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 12:13:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 04, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
"Educate yourself"

I get it now, fox is an Irish MMA fan. That explains the stupidity and somewhat prickly nature whilst still, dumbfoundingly, maintaining a smug self assurance.

Trump supporters on the internet often remind me of the way WWF wrestlers would act in those promo segments to camera in the early 1990s, where they would "call out" an opponent.

It's like they're trying desperately to put on a front and convince themselves that what they're saying is true while really knowing that the whole thing is an act, and complete bullshit.

You're dead right....Republicans are so stupid, they're going to get wiped out in 2018

Democrats are so much smarter....they're going to sweep the decks

You heard it here first
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on February 05, 2017, 04:34:15 AM
Money talks and the rich will keep getting richer taking our money. The Tories are already running the NHS into the ground until they pass the point of no return and then fleece it to the highest (contributer). The rich will have all the cash and the not so rich will fight for the rest leaving the poor and disadvantaged fuc.*ed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2017, 07:21:41 AM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on February 05, 2017, 04:34:15 AM
Money talks and the rich will keep getting richer taking our money. The Tories are already running the NHS into the ground until they pass the point of no return and then fleece it to the highest (contributer). The rich will have all the cash and the not so rich will fight for the rest leaving the poor and disadvantaged fuc.*ed.
Brexit and Trump are the same
The key thing is what happens when the public realise they have been shafted

http://www.salon.com/2017/01/19/donald-trump-will-adopt-heritage-foundations-skinny-budget-arts-violence-against-women-funding-to-be-cut/

At the Department of Justice, Trump's plan would eliminate programs that aim to prevent violence against women, encourage community-oriented policing, and provide legal aid to the indigent. The Heritage Foundation has called those programs a "misuse of federal resources and a distraction from concerns that are truly the province of the federal government."
Trump's transition team reportedly also wants to eliminate all funding for the Minority Business Development Agency, the National Endowment for the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Humanities, which offers grants to museums, educational institutes, researchers, and authors. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which distributes funding to nearly 1,500 locally owned public radio and TV stations would be privatized, according to the Hill. Three years ago, the NEH and NEA were pushed out of the Old Post Office in Washington, D.C. to make way for Trump's newest hotel.
At the Energy Department, Trump's plan would eliminate the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy and Office of Fossil Energy, which develops technologies to reduce carbon emissions. The so-called skinny budget would also drastically reduce funding for the DOJ's Civil Rights and Environment and Natural Resources divisions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 11:02:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2017, 03:10:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 12:13:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 04, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
"Educate yourself"

I get it now, fox is an Irish MMA fan. That explains the stupidity and somewhat prickly nature whilst still, dumbfoundingly, maintaining a smug self assurance.

Trump supporters on the internet often remind me of the way WWF wrestlers would act in those promo segments to camera in the early 1990s, where they would "call out" an opponent.

It's like they're trying desperately to put on a front and convince themselves that what they're saying is true while really knowing that the whole thing is an act, and complete bullshit.

You're dead right....Republicans are so stupid, they're going to get wiped out in 2018

Democrats are so much smarter....they're going to sweep the decks

You heard it here first
I didn't even mention the Democrats, pal.

You really are obsessed with them aren't you?

I bet you typed that in a Ric Flair voice in your head.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 05, 2017, 11:15:01 AM
The US federal appeals court has rejected the Trump administration's request to reinstate a travel ban blocked by a federal judge on Friday.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38872680

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 11:27:26 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 05, 2017, 11:15:01 AM
The US federal appeals court has rejected the Trump administration's request to reinstate a travel ban blocked by a federal judge on Friday.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38872680
The so called President called the judge that ruled such a "so called judge".

For a so called "law and order" candidate, he doesn't much like the law, does he?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2017, 11:50:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 11:27:26 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 05, 2017, 11:15:01 AM
The US federal appeals court has rejected the Trump administration's request to reinstate a travel ban blocked by a federal judge on Friday.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38872680
The so called President called the judge that ruled such a "so called judge".

For a so called "law and order" candidate, he doesn't much like the law, does he?
Humpty doesn't understand how government works. The US is close to a constitutionAl crisis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2017, 01:33:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 11:02:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2017, 03:10:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 12:13:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 04, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
"Educate yourself"

I get it now, fox is an Irish MMA fan. That explains the stupidity and somewhat prickly nature whilst still, dumbfoundingly, maintaining a smug self assurance.

Trump supporters on the internet often remind me of the way WWF wrestlers would act in those promo segments to camera in the early 1990s, where they would "call out" an opponent.

It's like they're trying desperately to put on a front and convince themselves that what they're saying is true while really knowing that the whole thing is an act, and complete bullshit.

You're dead right....Republicans are so stupid, they're going to get wiped out in 2018

Democrats are so much smarter....they're going to sweep the decks

You heard it here first
I didn't even mention the Democrats, pal.

You really are obsessed with them aren't you?

I bet you typed that in a Ric Flair voice in your head.

Keep it up....victory is in sight
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 05, 2017, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2017, 03:10:31 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 12:13:16 AM

Quote from: gallsman on February 04, 2017, 09:14:08 PM

"Educate yourself"

I get it now, fox is an Irish MMA fan. That explains the stupidity and somewhat prickly nature whilst still, dumbfoundingly, maintaining a smug self assurance.

Trump supporters on the internet often remind me of the way WWF wrestlers would act in those promo segments to camera in the early 1990s, where they would "call out" an opponent.

It's like they're trying desperately to put on a front and convince themselves that what they're saying is true while really knowing that the whole thing is an act, and complete bullshit.

You're dead right....Republicans are so stupid, they're going to get wiped out in 2018

Democrats are so much smarter....they're going to sweep the decks

You heard it here first

While nobody claims that all the Trump voters were idiots, there's evidence that nearly all the idiots voted for Trump.

In a PPP poll released on 26 January (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_12617.pdf):

-          While only 18% of voters overall think Trump's inauguration had the biggest crowd of, 34% of Trump voters do think he had the biggest crowd ever.

-          Only 29% of voters overall think that Trump's inauguration had a bigger crowd than the women's march. 59% of Trump voters believe that his inauguration had a bigger crowd than the women's march.

In a previous poll, released on 9 December (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_120916.pdf):

-          67% of Trump voters say that unemployment increased during the Obama administration. (Reality - unemployment fell from 7.8% to 4.7% under Obama.)

-          Only 41% of Trump voters say that the stock market went up during the Obama administration. 39% say it went down. (Reality - the DJIA multiplied by 2.5 while Obama was in office.)

-          40% of Trump voters insist that he won the national popular vote. (Reality – Clinton's vote was almost 3 million more than Trump's.)

-          Only 54% of Trump voters expressly say they don't think Pizzagate is real. (Reality – well, what can one say?)

-          Only 53% of Trump voters think that California's votes should be allowed to count in the national popular vote. 29% don't think they should be allowed to count, and another 18% are unsure.

-          60% of Trump voters think that Hillary Clinton received millions of illegal votes to only 18% who disagree.

And my very favourite - 73% (that is not a misprint) of Trump voters think that George Soros is paying protesters against Trump to only 6% (yes, that's correct too) who think that's not true, and 21% who aren't sure one way or the other. And 48% of Trump voters think MOST of the people who protested at airports across the country last weekend were paid to do so by Soros.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2017, 02:52:05 PM
A lot of Trump supporters are morons.....a lot aren't

Trump has become the voice of the white working class....as Bill Clinton described them "the people humping it 60 hours a week who's health care premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half"

This "Muslim" ban is ingenious by Trump.....it does absolutely nothing for the Democrats in terms of winning back any of the voters they need in 2018 to keep the Senate seats that are up in Trump states.

Secondly, god forbid there is some type of terrorist attack Trump has a very long list of Democrats who can be painted as caring more about terrorists than about the safety of American citizens.  He has them completely painted into a corner
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 05, 2017, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2017, 02:52:05 PM
A lot of Trump supporters are morons.....a lot aren't

Trump has become the voice of the white working class....as Bill Clinton described them "the people humping it 60 hours a week who's health care premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half"

This "Muslim" ban is ingenious by Trump.....it does absolutely nothing for the Democrats in terms of winning back any of the voters they need in 2018 to keep the Senate seats that are up in Trump states.

Secondly, god forbid there is some type of terrorist attack Trump has a very long list of Democrats who can be painted as caring more about terrorists than about the safety of American citizens.  He has them completely painted into a corner

So its all about "optics" whitey? Let's paint a massive group as the enemy, just in case. Its a no-lose strategy.

Integrity and facts and morals be damned.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2017, 03:23:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 05, 2017, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2017, 02:52:05 PM
A lot of Trump supporters are morons.....a lot aren't

Trump has become the voice of the white working class....as Bill Clinton described them "the people humping it 60 hours a week who's health care premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half"

This "Muslim" ban is ingenious by Trump.....it does absolutely nothing for the Democrats in terms of winning back any of the voters they need in 2018 to keep the Senate seats that are up in Trump states.

Secondly, god forbid there is some type of terrorist attack Trump has a very long list of Democrats who can be painted as caring more about terrorists than about the safety of American citizens.  He has them completely painted into a corner

So its all about "optics" whitey? Let's paint a massive group as the enemy, just in case. Its a no-lose strategy.

Integrity and facts and morals be damned.

Exactly....it's a master stroke!  My go to political show is Morning Joe.  Joe called 15 Trump supporters he knows personally last weekend and they are estatic with the ban and Trumps overall performance



I said during the election that you would  have "brass knuckle" Republicans in charge if Trump Won....as opposed to Country Club Republicans. These motherfvckers will destroy anyone and anything who gets in the way of their agenda

So while the Democrats were focusing on the faux war against women and transgender bathrooms, Trump and his team pulled off an incredible end run.

Hillarys 3M popular vote victory means zero when it comes to 2018 which will be fought on a state by state basis.....and yet I still have FB and Twitter friends posting this $hite
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 03:25:00 PM
Trump is just gagging for a serious terrorist attack to happen.

That would be the signal for him to attempt to invest sweeping draconian powers in himself, and probably to wage war, and to hell with the restraint of politics and law, which he's already tried to ride roughshod over.

Exactly what Bush and the neo-cons did after September 11th, except worse.

Shock doctrine, the tactic beloved of fascists and authoritarians everywhere.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 05, 2017, 03:32:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2017, 03:23:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 05, 2017, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2017, 02:52:05 PM
A lot of Trump supporters are morons.....a lot aren't

Trump has become the voice of the white working class....as Bill Clinton described them "the people humping it 60 hours a week who's health care premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half"

This "Muslim" ban is ingenious by Trump.....it does absolutely nothing for the Democrats in terms of winning back any of the voters they need in 2018 to keep the Senate seats that are up in Trump states.

Secondly, god forbid there is some type of terrorist attack Trump has a very long list of Democrats who can be painted as caring more about terrorists than about the safety of American citizens.  He has them completely painted into a corner

So its all about "optics" whitey? Let's paint a massive group as the enemy, just in case. Its a no-lose strategy.

Integrity and facts and morals be damned.

Exactly....it's a master stroke!  My go to political show is Morning Joe.  Joe called 15 Trump supporters he knows personally last weekend and they are estatic with the ban and Trumps overall performance



I said during the election that you would  have "brass knuckle" Republicans in charge if Trump Won....as opposed to Country Club Republicans. These motherfvckers will destroy anyone and anything who gets in the way of their agenda

So while the Democrats were focusing on the faux war against women and transgender bathrooms, Trump and his team pulled off an incredible end run.

Hillarys 3M popular vote victory means zero when it comes to 2018 which will be fought on a state by state basis.....and yet I still have FB and Twitter friends posting this $hite

So are you saying the only way forward in US politics is demagoguery? Hype and scaremongering and distraction and demonization?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
I'm saying that if the Democrats had focused on the the issues that mattered to the swing voters in the swing states they would have won the Presidential Election...instead they mainly focussed (imo) on the issues that mattered most to the progressive wing.......who's votes were already in the bag.

The Democrats also underestimated the level of anger among the electorate

They tried to spin Obamacare as a resounding success.....when in reality it has been a resounding failure for the swing voters in the swing states.  Most of these people already had healthcare....all Obamacare did was double their premiums  and cut their coverage in half

Here in Boston....the very popular and commonsensical Democratic Mayor, Marty Walsh is going to get primaried by an African American candidate backed and funded by DeBlasio people.....just fvcking incredible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 05, 2017, 04:46:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
I'm saying that if the Democrats had focused on the the issues that mattered to the swing voters in the swing states they would have won the Presidential Election...instead they mainly focussed (imo) on the issues that mattered most to the progressive wing.......who's votes were already in the bag.

The Democrats also underestimated the level of anger among the electorate

They tried to spin Obamacare as a resounding success.....when in reality it has been a resounding failure for the swing voters in the swing states.  Most of these people already had healthcare....all Obamacare did was double their premiums  and cut their coverage in half

Here in Boston....the very popular and commonsensical Democratic Mayor, Marty Walsh is going to get primaried by an African American candidate backed and funded by DeBlasio people.....just fvcking incredible

So Hillary should have run on the Obama years, of which she was part, being a failure?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2017, 05:09:43 PM
Well the reality is that they were a failure for the swing voters in the swing states but we know she can't come out and say that (even though Bill and Chelsea did unwittingly)

She has hundreds of millions of dollars to hire the brightest and best consultants and pollsters  to craft a message that would resonate with these swing voters.  It doesnt need to resonate with ALL of them....just an extra 1 or 2 percent swing in her direction and she has it in the bag
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 05, 2017, 05:36:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 05, 2017, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2017, 03:10:31 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2017, 12:13:16 AM

Quote from: gallsman on February 04, 2017, 09:14:08 PM

"Educate yourself"

I get it now, fox is an Irish MMA fan. That explains the stupidity and somewhat prickly nature whilst still, dumbfoundingly, maintaining a smug self assurance.

Trump supporters on the internet often remind me of the way WWF wrestlers would act in those promo segments to camera in the early 1990s, where they would "call out" an opponent.

It's like they're trying desperately to put on a front and convince themselves that what they're saying is true while really knowing that the whole thing is an act, and complete bullshit.

You're dead right....Republicans are so stupid, they're going to get wiped out in 2018

Democrats are so much smarter....they're going to sweep the decks

You heard it here first

While nobody claims that all the Trump voters were idiots, there's evidence that nearly all the idiots voted for Trump.

In a PPP poll released on 26 January (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_12617.pdf):

-          While only 18% of voters overall think Trump's inauguration had the biggest crowd of, 34% of Trump voters do think he had the biggest crowd ever.

-          Only 29% of voters overall think that Trump's inauguration had a bigger crowd than the women's march. 59% of Trump voters believe that his inauguration had a bigger crowd than the women's march.

In a previous poll, released on 9 December (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_120916.pdf):

-          67% of Trump voters say that unemployment increased during the Obama administration. (Reality - unemployment fell from 7.8% to 4.7% under Obama.)

-          Only 41% of Trump voters say that the stock market went up during the Obama administration. 39% say it went down. (Reality - the DJIA multiplied by 2.5 while Obama was in office.)

-          40% of Trump voters insist that he won the national popular vote. (Reality – Clinton's vote was almost 3 million more than Trump's.)

-          Only 54% of Trump voters expressly say they don't think Pizzagate is real. (Reality – well, what can one say?)

-          Only 53% of Trump voters think that California's votes should be allowed to count in the national popular vote. 29% don't think they should be allowed to count, and another 18% are unsure.

-          60% of Trump voters think that Hillary Clinton received millions of illegal votes to only 18% who disagree.

And my very favourite - 73% (that is not a misprint) of Trump voters think that George Soros is paying protesters against Trump to only 6% (yes, that's correct too) who think that's not true, and 21% who aren't sure one way or the other. And 48% of Trump voters think MOST of the people who protested at airports across the country last weekend were paid to do so by Soros.

Really, who gives a shite about inauguration numbers, Obama kicked his ass on that score, move on.

As for what people think on silly issues, it does not matter, Trump won and now Ryan and the GOP have to make sure they keep the President in check, and they can.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2017, 06:08:19 PM
Stew, Priebus is supposed to keep smacht on Trump and he is like Armagh playing Tyrone. Out of his depth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 05, 2017, 07:31:52 PM
Seafoid... a more appropriate analogy would be greatly appreciated. We are feeling a bit raw about the abuse we are taking from Offeeessials today ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Imposerous on February 05, 2017, 09:16:28 PM
 
[/quote]

Really, who gives a shite about inauguration numbers, Obama kicked his ass on that score, move on.

As for what people think on silly issues, it does not matter, Trump won and now Ryan and the GOP have to make sure they keep the President in check, and they can.
[/quote]

Er, the POTUS seems pretty preoccupied by it. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on February 05, 2017, 09:33:58 PM
Twitter has been consistently funnier since Trump came to office. Wealth of material tbf.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 06, 2017, 12:21:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 05, 2017, 06:08:19 PM
Stew, Priebus is supposed to keep smacht on Trump and he is like Armagh playing Tyrone. Out of his depth

Did we not just beat that durt with 13 men????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 06, 2017, 02:30:30 AM
Noah Rothman

‏@NoahCRothman



Trump's day began with attacking a federal judge's allegiance to the country and ended by morally equating America with revanchist Russia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 06, 2017, 01:51:10 PM
There have been may articles on why Trump won, or why Clinton lost, some of them complete and utter nonsense. This is as strong a piece as I have read. All politics is local, and understanding the sense of being failed by the system in America's heartland is key to understanding the "why" of the latest election result. You may characterize those who voted in many different ways, (I know I did) but hope springs eternal, and the short version is that many American voters felt that Donald Trump was their only hope.

Quote
Amid the ongoing protests against President Trump, calls for "resistance" among Democratic politicians and activists, and the overheated rhetoric casting Trump and his supporters as fascists and xenophobes, an outsider might be forgiven for thinking that America has been taken over by a small faction of rightwing nationalists.

America is deeply divided, but it's not divided between fascists and Democrats. It's more accurate to say that America is divided between the elites and everybody else, and Trump's election was a rejection of the elites.

That's not to say plenty of Democrats and progressives don't vehemently oppose Trump. But the crowds of demonstrators share something in common with our political and media elites: they still don't understand how Trump got elected, or why millions of Americans continue to support him. Even now, recent polls show that more Americans support Trump's executive order on immigration than oppose it, but you wouldn't know it based on the media coverage.

Support for Trump's travel ban, indeed his entire agenda for immigration reform, is precisely the sort of thing mainstream media, concentrated in urban enclaves along our coasts, has trouble comprehending. The fact is, many Americans who voted for Trump, especially those in suburban and rural areas across the heartland and the south, have long felt disconnected from the institutions that govern them. On immigration and trade, the issues that propelled Trump to the White House, they want the status quo to change.

During his first two weeks in office, whenever Trump has done something that leaves political and media elites aghast, his supporters cheer. They like that he told Mexican president Enrique Peña Nieto he might have to send troops across the border to stop "bad hombres down there". They like that he threatened to pull out of an Obama-era deal to accept thousands of refugees Australia refuses to admit. They want him to dismantle Dodd-Frank financial regulations for Wall Street and rethink US trade deals. This is why they voted for him.

The failure to understand why these measures are popular with millions of Americans stems from a deep sense of disconnection in American society that didn't begin with Trump or the 2016 election. For years, millions of voters have felt left behind by an economic recovery that largely excluded them, a culture that scoffed at their beliefs and a government that promised change but failed to deliver.

Nowhere is this disconnection more palpable than in the American midwest, in places such as Akron, a small city in northeast Ohio nestled along a bend in the Little Cuyahoga river. Its downtown boasts clean and pleasant streets, a minor league baseball park, bustling cafes and a lively university. The people are friendly and open, as midwesterners tend to be. In many ways, it's an idyllic American town.

Except for the heroin. Like many suburban and rural communities across the country, Akron is in the grip of a deadly heroin epidemic. Last summer, a batch of heroin cut with a synthetic painkiller called carfentanil, an elephant tranquilliser, turned up in the city. Twenty-one people overdosed in a single day. Over the ensuing weeks, 300 more would overdose. Dozens would die.

The heroin epidemic is playing out against a backdrop of industrial decline. At one time, Akron was a manufacturing hub, home to four major tyre companies and a rising middle class. Today, most of that is gone. The tyre factories have long since moved overseas and the city's population has been steadily shrinking since the 1960s. This is what Trump was talking about when he spoke of "American carnage" in his inaugural address.

Akron is not unique. Cities and towns across America's rust belt, Appalachia and the deep south are in a state of gradual decline. Many of these places have long been Democratic strongholds, undergirded by once-robust unions.

On election day, millions of Democrats who voted for Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012 cast their votes for Trump. In those earlier elections, these blue-collar Democrats were voting for change, hoping Obama would prioritise the needs of working Americans over the elites and special interests concentrated in Washington DC and Wall Street.

For many Americans, Hillary Clinton personified the corruption and self-dealing of the elites. But Trump's election wasn't just a rejection of Clinton, it was a rejection of politics as usual. If the media and political establishment see Trump's first couple of weeks in office as a whirlwind of chaos and incompetence, his supporters see an outsider taking on a sclerotic system that needs to be dismantled. That's precisely what many Americans thought they were doing eight years ago, when they put a freshman senator from Illinois in the White House. Obama promised a new way of governing – he would be a "post-partisan" president, he would "fundamentally transform" the country, he would look out for the middle class. In the throes of the great recession, that resonated. Something was clearly wrong with our political system and the American people wanted someone to fix it.

After all, the Tea Party didn't begin as a reaction against Obama's presidency but that of George W Bush. As far as most Americans were concerned, the financial crisis was brought on by the excesses of Wall Street bankers and the incompetency of our political leaders. Before the Tea Party coalesced into a political movement, the protesters weren't just traditional conservatives who cared about limited government and the constitution. They were, for the most part, ordinary Americans who felt the system was rigged against them and they wanted change.

Trump voters didn't care if he said offensive things or spoke off-the-cuff. In fact, they liked that about him
But change didn't come. What they got was more of the same. Obama offered a series of massive government programmes, from an $830bn financial stimulus, to the Affordable Care Act, to Dodd-Frank, none of which did much to assuage the economic anxieties of the middle class. Americans watched as the federal government bailed out the banks, then the auto industry and then passed healthcare reform that transferred billions of taxpayer dollars to major health insurance companies. Meanwhile, premiums went up, economic recovery remained sluggish and millions dropped out of the workforce and turned to food stamps and welfare programmes just to get by. Americans asked themselves: "Where's my bailout?"

At the same time, they saw the world becoming more unstable. Part of Obama's appeal was that he promised to end the unpopular wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, restore America's standing in the international community and pursue multilateral agreements that would bring stability. Instead, Americans watched Isis step into the vacuum created by the US withdrawal from Iraq in 2011. They watched the Syrian civil war trigger a migrant crisis in Europe that many Americans now view as a cautionary tale. At home, Isis-inspired terrorist attacks took their toll, as they did in Europe. And all the while Obama's White House insisted that everything was going well.

Amid all this, along came Trump. Here was a rough character, a boisterous celebrity billionaire with an axe to grind. He had palpable disdain for both political parties, which he said had failed the American people. He showed contempt for political correctness that was strangling public debate over contentious issues such as terrorism. He struck many of the same populist notes, both in his campaign and in his recent inaugural address, that Senator Bernie Sanders did among his young socialist acolytes, sometimes word for word.

In many ways, Trump's agenda isn't partisan in a recognisable way – especially on trade. Almost immediately after taking office, Trump made good on a promise that Sanders also made, pulling the US out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and proclaiming an end to multilateral trade deals. He also threatened US companies with a "border tax" if they move jobs overseas. These are not traditional Republican positions but they do appeal to American workers who have watched employers pull out of their communities and ship jobs overseas.

Many traditional Republicans have always been uncomfortable with Trump. They fundamentally disagree with his positions on trade and immigration. Even now, congressional Republicans are revolting over Trump's proposed border wall, promising to block any new expenditures for it. They're also uncomfortable with Trump personally. For some Republicans, it was only Trump's promise to nominate a conservative supreme court justice to replace Justice Antonin Scalia that won their votes in the end – a promise Trump honoured last week by nominating Judge Neil Gorsuch, a judge very much in Scalia's mould.

Once Trump won the nomination at the Republican national convention, most Republican voters got on board, reasoning that whatever uncertainty they had about Trump, the alternative – Clinton – was worse.

In many ways, the 2016 election wasn't just a referendum on Obama's eight years in the White House, it was a rejection of the entire political system that gave us Iraq, the financial crisis, a botched healthcare law and shocking income inequality during a slow economic recovery. From Akron to Alaska, millions of Americans had simply lost confidence in their leaders and the institutions that were supposed to serve them. In their desperation, they turned to a man who had no regard for the elites – and no use for them.

In his inaugural address, Trump said: "Today, we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another, but we are transferring power from Washington, DC, and giving it back to you, the people." To be sure, populism of this kind can be dangerous and unpredictable, But it doesn't arise from nowhere. Only a corrupt political establishment could have provoked a political revolt of this scale. Instead of blaming Trump's rise on racism or xenophobia, blame it on those who never saw this coming and still don't understand why so many Americans would rather have Donald Trump in the White House than suffer the rule of their elites.


from
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/05/trump-not-fascist-champion-for-forgotten-millions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 06, 2017, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 06, 2017, 01:51:10 PM
There have been may articles on why Trump won, or why Clinton lost, some of them complete and utter nonsense. This is as strong a piece as I have read. All politics is local, and understanding the sense of being failed by the system in America's heartland is key to understanding the "why" of the latest election result. You may characterize those who voted in many different ways, (I know I did) but hope springs eternal, and the short version is that many American voters felt that Donald Trump was their only hope.

Quote
Amid the ongoing protests against President Trump, calls for "resistance" among Democratic politicians and activists, and the overheated rhetoric casting Trump and his supporters as fascists and xenophobes, an outsider might be forgiven for thinking that America has been taken over by a small faction of rightwing nationalists.

America is deeply divided, but it's not divided between fascists and Democrats. It's more accurate to say that America is divided between the elites and everybody else, and Trump's election was a rejection of the elites.

That's not to say plenty of Democrats and progressives don't vehemently oppose Trump. But the crowds of demonstrators share something in common with our political and media elites: they still don't understand how Trump got elected, or why millions of Americans continue to support him. Even now, recent polls show that more Americans support Trump's executive order on immigration than oppose it, but you wouldn't know it based on the media coverage.

Support for Trump's travel ban, indeed his entire agenda for immigration reform, is precisely the sort of thing mainstream media, concentrated in urban enclaves along our coasts, has trouble comprehending. The fact is, many Americans who voted for Trump, especially those in suburban and rural areas across the heartland and the south, have long felt disconnected from the institutions that govern them. On immigration and trade, the issues that propelled Trump to the White House, they want the status quo to change.

During his first two weeks in office, whenever Trump has done something that leaves political and media elites aghast, his supporters cheer. They like that he told Mexican president Enrique Peña Nieto he might have to send troops across the border to stop "bad hombres down there". They like that he threatened to pull out of an Obama-era deal to accept thousands of refugees Australia refuses to admit. They want him to dismantle Dodd-Frank financial regulations for Wall Street and rethink US trade deals. This is why they voted for him.

The failure to understand why these measures are popular with millions of Americans stems from a deep sense of disconnection in American society that didn't begin with Trump or the 2016 election. For years, millions of voters have felt left behind by an economic recovery that largely excluded them, a culture that scoffed at their beliefs and a government that promised change but failed to deliver.

Nowhere is this disconnection more palpable than in the American midwest, in places such as Akron, a small city in northeast Ohio nestled along a bend in the Little Cuyahoga river. Its downtown boasts clean and pleasant streets, a minor league baseball park, bustling cafes and a lively university. The people are friendly and open, as midwesterners tend to be. In many ways, it's an idyllic American town.

Except for the heroin. Like many suburban and rural communities across the country, Akron is in the grip of a deadly heroin epidemic. Last summer, a batch of heroin cut with a synthetic painkiller called carfentanil, an elephant tranquilliser, turned up in the city. Twenty-one people overdosed in a single day. Over the ensuing weeks, 300 more would overdose. Dozens would die.

The heroin epidemic is playing out against a backdrop of industrial decline. At one time, Akron was a manufacturing hub, home to four major tyre companies and a rising middle class. Today, most of that is gone. The tyre factories have long since moved overseas and the city's population has been steadily shrinking since the 1960s. This is what Trump was talking about when he spoke of "American carnage" in his inaugural address.

Akron is not unique. Cities and towns across America's rust belt, Appalachia and the deep south are in a state of gradual decline. Many of these places have long been Democratic strongholds, undergirded by once-robust unions.

On election day, millions of Democrats who voted for Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012 cast their votes for Trump. In those earlier elections, these blue-collar Democrats were voting for change, hoping Obama would prioritise the needs of working Americans over the elites and special interests concentrated in Washington DC and Wall Street.

For many Americans, Hillary Clinton personified the corruption and self-dealing of the elites. But Trump's election wasn't just a rejection of Clinton, it was a rejection of politics as usual. If the media and political establishment see Trump's first couple of weeks in office as a whirlwind of chaos and incompetence, his supporters see an outsider taking on a sclerotic system that needs to be dismantled. That's precisely what many Americans thought they were doing eight years ago, when they put a freshman senator from Illinois in the White House. Obama promised a new way of governing – he would be a "post-partisan" president, he would "fundamentally transform" the country, he would look out for the middle class. In the throes of the great recession, that resonated. Something was clearly wrong with our political system and the American people wanted someone to fix it.

After all, the Tea Party didn't begin as a reaction against Obama's presidency but that of George W Bush. As far as most Americans were concerned, the financial crisis was brought on by the excesses of Wall Street bankers and the incompetency of our political leaders. Before the Tea Party coalesced into a political movement, the protesters weren't just traditional conservatives who cared about limited government and the constitution. They were, for the most part, ordinary Americans who felt the system was rigged against them and they wanted change.

Trump voters didn't care if he said offensive things or spoke off-the-cuff. In fact, they liked that about him
But change didn't come. What they got was more of the same. Obama offered a series of massive government programmes, from an $830bn financial stimulus, to the Affordable Care Act, to Dodd-Frank, none of which did much to assuage the economic anxieties of the middle class. Americans watched as the federal government bailed out the banks, then the auto industry and then passed healthcare reform that transferred billions of taxpayer dollars to major health insurance companies. Meanwhile, premiums went up, economic recovery remained sluggish and millions dropped out of the workforce and turned to food stamps and welfare programmes just to get by. Americans asked themselves: "Where's my bailout?"

At the same time, they saw the world becoming more unstable. Part of Obama's appeal was that he promised to end the unpopular wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, restore America's standing in the international community and pursue multilateral agreements that would bring stability. Instead, Americans watched Isis step into the vacuum created by the US withdrawal from Iraq in 2011. They watched the Syrian civil war trigger a migrant crisis in Europe that many Americans now view as a cautionary tale. At home, Isis-inspired terrorist attacks took their toll, as they did in Europe. And all the while Obama's White House insisted that everything was going well.

Amid all this, along came Trump. Here was a rough character, a boisterous celebrity billionaire with an axe to grind. He had palpable disdain for both political parties, which he said had failed the American people. He showed contempt for political correctness that was strangling public debate over contentious issues such as terrorism. He struck many of the same populist notes, both in his campaign and in his recent inaugural address, that Senator Bernie Sanders did among his young socialist acolytes, sometimes word for word.

In many ways, Trump's agenda isn't partisan in a recognisable way – especially on trade. Almost immediately after taking office, Trump made good on a promise that Sanders also made, pulling the US out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and proclaiming an end to multilateral trade deals. He also threatened US companies with a "border tax" if they move jobs overseas. These are not traditional Republican positions but they do appeal to American workers who have watched employers pull out of their communities and ship jobs overseas.

Many traditional Republicans have always been uncomfortable with Trump. They fundamentally disagree with his positions on trade and immigration. Even now, congressional Republicans are revolting over Trump's proposed border wall, promising to block any new expenditures for it. They're also uncomfortable with Trump personally. For some Republicans, it was only Trump's promise to nominate a conservative supreme court justice to replace Justice Antonin Scalia that won their votes in the end – a promise Trump honoured last week by nominating Judge Neil Gorsuch, a judge very much in Scalia's mould.

Once Trump won the nomination at the Republican national convention, most Republican voters got on board, reasoning that whatever uncertainty they had about Trump, the alternative – Clinton – was worse.

In many ways, the 2016 election wasn't just a referendum on Obama's eight years in the White House, it was a rejection of the entire political system that gave us Iraq, the financial crisis, a botched healthcare law and shocking income inequality during a slow economic recovery. From Akron to Alaska, millions of Americans had simply lost confidence in their leaders and the institutions that were supposed to serve them. In their desperation, they turned to a man who had no regard for the elites – and no use for them.

In his inaugural address, Trump said: "Today, we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another, but we are transferring power from Washington, DC, and giving it back to you, the people." To be sure, populism of this kind can be dangerous and unpredictable, But it doesn't arise from nowhere. Only a corrupt political establishment could have provoked a political revolt of this scale. Instead of blaming Trump's rise on racism or xenophobia, blame it on those who never saw this coming and still don't understand why so many Americans would rather have Donald Trump in the White House than suffer the rule of their elites.


from
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/05/trump-not-fascist-champion-for-forgotten-millions
The key issue is payrises. How many immigrants do the typical Trump voter see on a typical day ? Immigration was the fear glue used to get the coalition together. Trump focuses on that rather than payrises

"In his inaugural address, Trump said: "Today, we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another, but we are transferring power from Washington, DC, and giving it back to you, the people."

So he has 3 Goldman Sachs people in his cabinet. Yeah, it's for the people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 06, 2017, 02:48:05 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 06, 2017, 01:51:10 PM
There have been may articles on why Trump won, or why Clinton lost, some of them complete and utter nonsense. This is as strong a piece as I have read. All politics is local, and understanding the sense of being failed by the system in America's heartland is key to understanding the "why" of the latest election result. You may characterize those who voted in many different ways, (I know I did) but hope springs eternal, and the short version is that many American voters felt that Donald Trump was their only hope.

Quote
Amid the ongoing protests against President Trump, calls for "resistance" among Democratic politicians and activists, and the overheated rhetoric casting Trump and his supporters as fascists and xenophobes, an outsider might be forgiven for thinking that America has been taken over by a small faction of rightwing nationalists.

America is deeply divided, but it's not divided between fascists and Democrats. It's more accurate to say that America is divided between the elites and everybody else, and Trump's election was a rejection of the elites.

That's not to say plenty of Democrats and progressives don't vehemently oppose Trump. But the crowds of demonstrators share something in common with our political and media elites: they still don't understand how Trump got elected, or why millions of Americans continue to support him. Even now, recent polls show that more Americans support Trump's executive order on immigration than oppose it, but you wouldn't know it based on the media coverage.

Support for Trump's travel ban, indeed his entire agenda for immigration reform, is precisely the sort of thing mainstream media, concentrated in urban enclaves along our coasts, has trouble comprehending. The fact is, many Americans who voted for Trump, especially those in suburban and rural areas across the heartland and the south, have long felt disconnected from the institutions that govern them. On immigration and trade, the issues that propelled Trump to the White House, they want the status quo to change.

During his first two weeks in office, whenever Trump has done something that leaves political and media elites aghast, his supporters cheer. They like that he told Mexican president Enrique Peña Nieto he might have to send troops across the border to stop "bad hombres down there". They like that he threatened to pull out of an Obama-era deal to accept thousands of refugees Australia refuses to admit. They want him to dismantle Dodd-Frank financial regulations for Wall Street and rethink US trade deals. This is why they voted for him.

The failure to understand why these measures are popular with millions of Americans stems from a deep sense of disconnection in American society that didn't begin with Trump or the 2016 election. For years, millions of voters have felt left behind by an economic recovery that largely excluded them, a culture that scoffed at their beliefs and a government that promised change but failed to deliver.

Nowhere is this disconnection more palpable than in the American midwest, in places such as Akron, a small city in northeast Ohio nestled along a bend in the Little Cuyahoga river. Its downtown boasts clean and pleasant streets, a minor league baseball park, bustling cafes and a lively university. The people are friendly and open, as midwesterners tend to be. In many ways, it's an idyllic American town.

Except for the heroin. Like many suburban and rural communities across the country, Akron is in the grip of a deadly heroin epidemic. Last summer, a batch of heroin cut with a synthetic painkiller called carfentanil, an elephant tranquilliser, turned up in the city. Twenty-one people overdosed in a single day. Over the ensuing weeks, 300 more would overdose. Dozens would die.

The heroin epidemic is playing out against a backdrop of industrial decline. At one time, Akron was a manufacturing hub, home to four major tyre companies and a rising middle class. Today, most of that is gone. The tyre factories have long since moved overseas and the city's population has been steadily shrinking since the 1960s. This is what Trump was talking about when he spoke of "American carnage" in his inaugural address.

Akron is not unique. Cities and towns across America's rust belt, Appalachia and the deep south are in a state of gradual decline. Many of these places have long been Democratic strongholds, undergirded by once-robust unions.

On election day, millions of Democrats who voted for Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012 cast their votes for Trump. In those earlier elections, these blue-collar Democrats were voting for change, hoping Obama would prioritise the needs of working Americans over the elites and special interests concentrated in Washington DC and Wall Street.

For many Americans, Hillary Clinton personified the corruption and self-dealing of the elites. But Trump's election wasn't just a rejection of Clinton, it was a rejection of politics as usual. If the media and political establishment see Trump's first couple of weeks in office as a whirlwind of chaos and incompetence, his supporters see an outsider taking on a sclerotic system that needs to be dismantled. That's precisely what many Americans thought they were doing eight years ago, when they put a freshman senator from Illinois in the White House. Obama promised a new way of governing – he would be a "post-partisan" president, he would "fundamentally transform" the country, he would look out for the middle class. In the throes of the great recession, that resonated. Something was clearly wrong with our political system and the American people wanted someone to fix it.

After all, the Tea Party didn't begin as a reaction against Obama's presidency but that of George W Bush. As far as most Americans were concerned, the financial crisis was brought on by the excesses of Wall Street bankers and the incompetency of our political leaders. Before the Tea Party coalesced into a political movement, the protesters weren't just traditional conservatives who cared about limited government and the constitution. They were, for the most part, ordinary Americans who felt the system was rigged against them and they wanted change.

Trump voters didn't care if he said offensive things or spoke off-the-cuff. In fact, they liked that about him
But change didn't come. What they got was more of the same. Obama offered a series of massive government programmes, from an $830bn financial stimulus, to the Affordable Care Act, to Dodd-Frank, none of which did much to assuage the economic anxieties of the middle class. Americans watched as the federal government bailed out the banks, then the auto industry and then passed healthcare reform that transferred billions of taxpayer dollars to major health insurance companies. Meanwhile, premiums went up, economic recovery remained sluggish and millions dropped out of the workforce and turned to food stamps and welfare programmes just to get by. Americans asked themselves: "Where's my bailout?"

At the same time, they saw the world becoming more unstable. Part of Obama's appeal was that he promised to end the unpopular wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, restore America's standing in the international community and pursue multilateral agreements that would bring stability. Instead, Americans watched Isis step into the vacuum created by the US withdrawal from Iraq in 2011. They watched the Syrian civil war trigger a migrant crisis in Europe that many Americans now view as a cautionary tale. At home, Isis-inspired terrorist attacks took their toll, as they did in Europe. And all the while Obama's White House insisted that everything was going well.

Amid all this, along came Trump. Here was a rough character, a boisterous celebrity billionaire with an axe to grind. He had palpable disdain for both political parties, which he said had failed the American people. He showed contempt for political correctness that was strangling public debate over contentious issues such as terrorism. He struck many of the same populist notes, both in his campaign and in his recent inaugural address, that Senator Bernie Sanders did among his young socialist acolytes, sometimes word for word.

In many ways, Trump's agenda isn't partisan in a recognisable way – especially on trade. Almost immediately after taking office, Trump made good on a promise that Sanders also made, pulling the US out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and proclaiming an end to multilateral trade deals. He also threatened US companies with a "border tax" if they move jobs overseas. These are not traditional Republican positions but they do appeal to American workers who have watched employers pull out of their communities and ship jobs overseas.

Many traditional Republicans have always been uncomfortable with Trump. They fundamentally disagree with his positions on trade and immigration. Even now, congressional Republicans are revolting over Trump's proposed border wall, promising to block any new expenditures for it. They're also uncomfortable with Trump personally. For some Republicans, it was only Trump's promise to nominate a conservative supreme court justice to replace Justice Antonin Scalia that won their votes in the end – a promise Trump honoured last week by nominating Judge Neil Gorsuch, a judge very much in Scalia's mould.

Once Trump won the nomination at the Republican national convention, most Republican voters got on board, reasoning that whatever uncertainty they had about Trump, the alternative – Clinton – was worse.

In many ways, the 2016 election wasn't just a referendum on Obama's eight years in the White House, it was a rejection of the entire political system that gave us Iraq, the financial crisis, a botched healthcare law and shocking income inequality during a slow economic recovery. From Akron to Alaska, millions of Americans had simply lost confidence in their leaders and the institutions that were supposed to serve them. In their desperation, they turned to a man who had no regard for the elites – and no use for them.

In his inaugural address, Trump said: "Today, we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another, but we are transferring power from Washington, DC, and giving it back to you, the people." To be sure, populism of this kind can be dangerous and unpredictable, But it doesn't arise from nowhere. Only a corrupt political establishment could have provoked a political revolt of this scale. Instead of blaming Trump's rise on racism or xenophobia, blame it on those who never saw this coming and still don't understand why so many Americans would rather have Donald Trump in the White House than suffer the rule of their elites.


from
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/05/trump-not-fascist-champion-for-forgotten-millions

I think we get the whole "f**k you", two-fingers-to-the-"establishment" element of Trump's appeal.

Unfortunately for these people, not much is going to change.

Factories are not coming back and those that get tax breaks to stay are going to double-down on automation. Hispanic immigrants are still going to be doing roofing and asbestos abatement, picking the oranges and spuds, and delivering your Seamless order. Everything is still going to be made in China. Mobile phone videos are still going to publicize the killing of unarmed black men.

But at least coal companies will now be able to dump their spoil heaps and run-off into rivers and whatever element of protection Dodd-Frank and so tried to offer consumers from the predators of Wall St will be stripped away. And Obamacare will be gone, whatever the hell THAT will mean for health insurance (and methadone treatment and overdose shots).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2017, 03:26:43 PM
Don acting like a precious snowflake this morning again  - apparently he doesn't like when people think he's not really in charge

QuoteI call my own shots, largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it. Some FAKE NEWS media, in order to marginalize, lies!

I thought he didn't watch CNN  ::)

QuoteAny negative polls are fake news, just like the CNN, ABC, NBC polls in the election. Sorry, people want border security and extreme vetting.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2017, 03:27:07 PM
I don't know if he will succeed on the jobs front but at least he will be seen to be doing something.  You can bet your bottom dollar he will let everyone  know about it too.

That being said, regulation and healthcare are currently strangling small business owners, and they are the job creators not the big multinationals.

Do you think it would be beyond him and Bannon to strategically focus their efforts and resources on the swing states so the Democrats are boxed out in 2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 06, 2017, 03:41:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2017, 03:27:07 PM
I don't know if he will succeed on the jobs front but at least he will be seen to be doing something.  You can bet your bottom dollar he will let everyone  know about it too.

That being said, regulation and healthcare are currently strangling small business owners, and they are the job creators not the big multinationals.

Do you think it would be beyond him and Bannon to strategically focus their efforts and resources on the swing states so the Democrats are boxed out in 2020

Well, they'll have a record to run on by then, whatever that amounts to.

The Democrats will also have his record to run on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 06, 2017, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 01, 2017, 06:28:48 AM

Heganboy you maybe have a look into epistemology.
Also maybe you should look into the roots of mathematics and where it comes from.
Then maybe have a look into the philosophy of science and in particular the induction problem

You'll very quickly discover that ALL opinions are based on a series of assumptions.

How maths and science form the basis of a political opinion is also beyond me. Political opinion is based on morals/values which are nothing to do with either maths or science and are in fact purely subjective.
OmaghJoe, meant to get back to this earlier.

sure doesn't it all go back to our friend Descartes "je pense, donc je suis"* but that's a bit of an aside no?

Maybe you're suggesting that we're all not really here, and this is just a figment of my imagination? What in the history of mathematics leads you to say that there are errors in my statement. Some assumptions can be clearly demonstrated as incorrect, and my point may well be that where this is the case then i would say that the opinion is not a valid one.

Ah now Induction! Hume, Popper and Williams and all of that, again a fascinating topic - well for me anyway, but really not getting what you're suggesting here? Are you implying that all opinions are valid- which would be contrary to my post?

If my opinion is that the sun goes round the earth, and yours is that the earth goes round the sun, is my opinion valid?
My hypothesis is that not all opinions are valid has really got little to do with induction or epistemology, but rather that clearly incorrect opinions are invalid.

Hence mathematics and science. If in my opinion I feel that a million and a half people turned up to watch me behind bullet proof glass in Washington DC, and measurable and valid data shows that not to be the case, mathematics and science show that my opinion is not valid, quod erat demonstrandum.

*the latin came after the fact and was just for style points in my opinion (not valid)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 07, 2017, 09:31:03 AM
The White House Press Secretary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuc18xISwI)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 07, 2017, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 06, 2017, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 01, 2017, 06:28:48 AM

Heganboy you maybe have a look into epistemology.
Also maybe you should look into the roots of mathematics and where it comes from.
Then maybe have a look into the philosophy of science and in particular the induction problem

You'll very quickly discover that ALL opinions are based on a series of assumptions.

How maths and science form the basis of a political opinion is also beyond me. Political opinion is based on morals/values which are nothing to do with either maths or science and are in fact purely subjective.
OmaghJoe, meant to get back to this earlier.

sure doesn't it all go back to our friend Descartes "je pense, donc je suis"* but that's a bit of an aside no?

Maybe you're suggesting that we're all not really here, and this is just a figment of my imagination? What in the history of mathematics leads you to say that there are errors in my statement. Some assumptions can be clearly demonstrated as incorrect, and my point may well be that where this is the case then i would say that the opinion is not a valid one.

Ah now Induction! Hume, Popper and Williams and all of that, again a fascinating topic - well for me anyway, but really not getting what you're suggesting here? Are you implying that all opinions are valid- which would be contrary to my post?

If my opinion is that the sun goes round the earth, and yours is that the earth goes round the sun, is my opinion valid?
My hypothesis is that not all opinions are valid has really got little to do with induction or epistemology, but rather that clearly incorrect opinions are invalid.

Hence mathematics and science. If in my opinion I feel that a million and a half people turned up to watch me behind bullet proof glass in Washington DC, and measurable and valid data shows that not to be the case, mathematics and science show that my opinion is not valid, quod erat demonstrandum.

*the latin came after the fact and was just for style points in my opinion (not valid)

Yer gonna regret that Heganboy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2017, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 07, 2017, 09:31:03 AM
The White House Press Secretary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuc18xISwI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZOF9q5fzfs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 07, 2017, 11:06:11 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2017, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 07, 2017, 09:31:03 AM
The White House Press Secretary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuc18xISwI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZOF9q5fzfs

Excellent. They keep getting better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2017, 11:11:17 AM
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/18/white_extremist_murders_killed_at_least_60_in_u_s_since_1995.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2017, 11:13:08 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 07, 2017, 11:06:11 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2017, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 07, 2017, 09:31:03 AM
The White House Press Secretary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuc18xISwI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZOF9q5fzfs

Excellent. They keep getting better.
And Spicer was parodied by a WOMAN
https://twitter.com/speechboy71/status/828797159772405760
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 07, 2017, 11:50:09 AM
Watched it yesterday and it should probably go down as one of the best SNL skits of all time she was fantastic!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
I see the Obamas are getting the freedom of Dublin for their "moderating and progressive influence on the world stage".

Yes - that's what he did alright. 8 years of failure.

Dublin city council have been hard at work obviously tacking the real issues.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on February 07, 2017, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
I see the Obamas are getting the freedom of Dublin for their "moderating and progressive influence on the world stage".

Yes - that's what he did alright. 8 years of failure.

Dublin city council have been hard at work obviously tacking the real issues.

My thoughts exactly. Fu*k me, the biggest issues in Ireland appear to be;

Inability to get a hospital bed, (is this Ireland or some third world country)
Woeful lack of infrastructure Dublin and Galway two examples I am aware of
Homelessness
Drug use in broad daylight (don't mean smoking pot)
Oh almost forgot crime.

but, lets all blame the Donald it is all his fault.

I need to stop reading Irish newspapers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2017, 05:52:13 PM
Quote from: joemamas on February 07, 2017, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
I see the Obamas are getting the freedom of Dublin for their "moderating and progressive influence on the world stage".

Yes - that's what he did alright. 8 years of failure.

Dublin city council have been hard at work obviously tacking the real issues.

My thoughts exactly. Fu*k me, the biggest issues in Ireland appear to be;

Inability to get a hospital bed, (is this Ireland or some third world country)
Woeful lack of infrastructure Dublin and Galway two examples I am aware of
Homelessness
Drug use in broad daylight (don't mean smoking pot)
Oh almost forgot crime.

but, lets all blame the Donald it is all his fault.
I need to stop reading Irish newspapers

Donald Trump is being blamed for Irish problems of crime, homelessness, infrastructure and so on?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 07, 2017, 06:16:05 PM
It's great what $200million can buy you

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/07/politics/betsy-devos-senate-vote/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2017, 05:52:13 PM
Quote from: joemamas on February 07, 2017, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
I see the Obamas are getting the freedom of Dublin for their "moderating and progressive influence on the world stage".

Yes - that's what he did alright. 8 years of failure.

Dublin city council have been hard at work obviously tacking the real issues.

My thoughts exactly. Fu*k me, the biggest issues in Ireland appear to be;

Inability to get a hospital bed, (is this Ireland or some third world country)
Woeful lack of infrastructure Dublin and Galway two examples I am aware of
Homelessness
Drug use in broad daylight (don't mean smoking pot)
Oh almost forgot crime.

but, lets all blame the Donald it is all his fault.
I need to stop reading Irish newspapers

Donald Trump is being blamed for Irish problems of crime, homelessness, infrastructure and so on?

How about this - Why would an irish magazine even think about putting this on the cover (apart from seeking attention)?
Then there's the protests at the US embassy. Morons.

https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2017/02/why-not/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2017, 06:47:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2017, 05:52:13 PM
Quote from: joemamas on February 07, 2017, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
I see the Obamas are getting the freedom of Dublin for their "moderating and progressive influence on the world stage".

Yes - that's what he did alright. 8 years of failure.

Dublin city council have been hard at work obviously tacking the real issues.

My thoughts exactly. Fu*k me, the biggest issues in Ireland appear to be;

Inability to get a hospital bed, (is this Ireland or some third world country)
Woeful lack of infrastructure Dublin and Galway two examples I am aware of
Homelessness
Drug use in broad daylight (don't mean smoking pot)
Oh almost forgot crime.

but, lets all blame the Donald it is all his fault.
I need to stop reading Irish newspapers

Donald Trump is being blamed for Irish problems of crime, homelessness, infrastructure and so on?

How about this - Why would an irish magazine even think about putting this on the cover (apart from seeking attention)?
Then there's the protests at the US embassy. Morons.

https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2017/02/why-not/
It wouldn't surprise me. The US is so polarised.
Bannon believes in 80 year cycles. The Revolution, the Civil War, WW2 , now
Lincoln was assassinated at stage 2 

The US is a violent country and 4 Presidents have been assassinated
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: joemamas on February 07, 2017, 04:21:08 PM
My thoughts exactly. Fu*k me, the biggest issues in Ireland appear to be;

Inability to get a hospital bed, (is this Ireland or some third world country)
Woeful lack of infrastructure Dublin and Galway two examples I am aware of
Homelessness
Drug use in broad daylight (don't mean smoking pot)
Oh almost forgot crime.


Maybe they're thinking of asking Obama to come over and fix these. He did a bang up job in the states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 06:56:41 PM
Seeing as President Trump is a good friend of Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick did anyone look into potential Russian hacking of the Atlanta Falcons playbook on Sunday night? Maybe they called in a favour to Vlad at half time.
Would you put it past the Patriots who are fond of the odd bit of cheating?

Eerie echoes of what happened to Hillary. Ahead for so long and then boom!! Meltdown.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2017, 06:57:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2017, 05:52:13 PM
Quote from: joemamas on February 07, 2017, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
I see the Obamas are getting the freedom of Dublin for their "moderating and progressive influence on the world stage".

Yes - that's what he did alright. 8 years of failure.

Dublin city council have been hard at work obviously tacking the real issues.

My thoughts exactly. Fu*k me, the biggest issues in Ireland appear to be;

Inability to get a hospital bed, (is this Ireland or some third world country)
Woeful lack of infrastructure Dublin and Galway two examples I am aware of
Homelessness
Drug use in broad daylight (don't mean smoking pot)
Oh almost forgot crime.

but, lets all blame the Donald it is all his fault.
I need to stop reading Irish newspapers

Donald Trump is being blamed for Irish problems of crime, homelessness, infrastructure and so on?

How about this - Why would an irish magazine even think about putting this on the cover (apart from seeking attention)?
Then there's the protests at the US embassy. Morons.

https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2017/02/why-not/

Do YOU live in Ireland or the US?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2017, 07:25:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
Yes - that's what he did alright. 8 years of failure.

Unemployment cut in half.
Uninsured rate cut in half.
Dow Jones nearly tripled.
Deficit cut by two thirds.
Historically low inflation.
Automakers booming.
Clean energy doubled.
Bin Laden dead.

Or as conservatives call it, "failure."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2017, 07:33:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2017, 07:25:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
Yes - that's what he did alright. 8 years of failure.

Unemployment cut in half.
Uninsured rate cut in half.
Dow Jones nearly tripled.
Deficit cut by two thirds.
Historically low inflation.
Automakers booming.
Clean energy doubled.
Bin Laden dead.

Or as conservatives call it, "failure."
Dow Jones tripled but wages stagnated
Trump won because of that
Unemployment halved but the Fed doesn't count all those who fell out of the count. Labor participation is at 1975 levels
Automakers booming but not as much as auto debt, much of it sub prime
Historically low inflation because of stagnant wages
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2017, 07:33:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2017, 07:25:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
Yes - that's what he did alright. 8 years of failure.

Unemployment cut in half.
Uninsured rate cut in half.
Dow Jones nearly tripled.
Deficit cut by two thirds.
Historically low inflation.
Automakers booming.
Clean energy doubled.
Bin Laden dead.

Or as conservatives call it, "failure."
Dow Jones tripled but wages stagnated
Trump won because of that
Unemployment halved but the Fed doesn't count all those who fell out of the count. Labor participation is at 1975 levels
Automakers booming but not as much as auto debt, much of it sub prime
Historically low inflation because of stagnant wages

The Obama success story :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blast05 on February 07, 2017, 08:23:07 PM
And National debt increased by ~$30,000 per head of population during Obamas terms ... almost doubling the figure from when he took office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2017, 08:26:13 PM
Quote from: blast05 on February 07, 2017, 08:23:07 PM
And National debt increased by ~$30,000 per head of population during Obamas terms ... almost doubling the figure from when he took office.
Global debt increased by $60 tn since 2008 vs Global GDP growth of $15 tn
It's very scary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 07, 2017, 08:51:36 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 06, 2017, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 01, 2017, 06:28:48 AM

Heganboy you maybe have a look into epistemology.
Also maybe you should look into the roots of mathematics and where it comes from.
Then maybe have a look into the philosophy of science and in particular the induction problem

You'll very quickly discover that ALL opinions are based on a series of assumptions.

How maths and science form the basis of a political opinion is also beyond me. Political opinion is based on morals/values which are nothing to do with either maths or science and are in fact purely subjective.
OmaghJoe, meant to get back to this earlier.

sure doesn't it all go back to our friend Descartes "je pense, donc je suis"* but that's a bit of an aside no?

Maybe you're suggesting that we're all not really here, and this is just a figment of my imagination? What in the history of mathematics leads you to say that there are errors in my statement. Some assumptions can be clearly demonstrated as incorrect, and my point may well be that where this is the case then i would say that the opinion is not a valid one.

Ah now Induction! Hume, Popper and Williams and all of that, again a fascinating topic - well for me anyway, but really not getting what you're suggesting here? Are you implying that all opinions are valid- which would be contrary to my post?

If my opinion is that the sun goes round the earth, and yours is that the earth goes round the sun, is my opinion valid?
My hypothesis is that not all opinions are valid has really got little to do with induction or epistemology, but rather that clearly incorrect opinions are invalid.

Hence mathematics and science. If in my opinion I feel that a million and a half people turned up to watch me behind bullet proof glass in Washington DC, and measurable and valid data shows that not to be the case, mathematics and science show that my opinion is not valid, quod erat demonstrandum.

*the latin came after the fact and was just for style points in my opinion (not valid)


Maybe we are here maybe we're not, but follow an objective and deductive logic trail thru skepticism it starts to seem like we arent here, which is a step even beyond the solipsism at the root of deCatres revelation. But it is relevant as when applied epistemologically it demonstrates that we cant be sure of anything.

Well maths is often seen as the epitome of pure logic and it is, but at its root are axioms which are intuitive and dogmatic, you cant reason the logic down any further, however without them maths collapses in on itself, logic needs rules and something concrete to stand on, you just have to accept the axioms and move upwards from there (most do without even realising).

My point about science is the same, it needs something concrete to stand on.... and for it instead of axioms it is empiricism and induction. Now there are a number of fail safes in science like repeatability and falsifiablity but they dont prove either of the two tenets which are again essentially subjective .

Anyway this is fairly irrelevant to your point about how science and maths should form the basis of political opinion, they dont. Although it is formed in a similar way with subjective tenets in the case of politics is basically morals. Take human rights.. what does science of maths say about that...not much until you establish a few things from our own morals and principles, things like empathy and fairness and you then begin to expand and build from on those.

Of course science and maths can back up opinion but they cant form the basis. Political opinion becomes invalid when things don't make sense, when lies are pedaled and logical fallacies abound. Take for example capitalism ultimately I cant say it doesn't work, just that its wrong based on my own ideal of equality means low wealth disparity, but then my neighbor might think its right because his ideal of equality means equal opportunity for financial success, and then the guy across the street might not care about equality at all so he just wants as much as he can get. Who am I to say that these guys are wrong... especially if the later is a solipsist ;)

So to sum up I would say I can trip up people who I disagree with when they state falsehoods, contradict themselves, and apply bad logic, (and vise versa for that matter, as we all do it). But if our disagreement stems from them believing in something like opportunity more than I do at the end of the day I cant really say they're wrong... thats really all Im saying

*BTW wasnt it really the French that just for style points as he was trying to make his opinion more well known to the masses who saw Latin as stuffy and inaccessible?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2017, 01:16:32 AM
Conway is plamaser in chief but Trump is beyond her pay grade. He is too flagrant and too volatile

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/02/07/trump-kellyanne-conway-lead-full-interview.cnn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2017, 01:30:44 AM
Conway is finished

https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/829045193131380736
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2017, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2017, 01:30:44 AM
Conway is finished

https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/829045193131380736

Anyone who voted for Trump pays fvck all attention to what CNN or The NY Times has to say....haven't they more important things to be doing such as rigging debates or selectively editing BLM protest videos

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/cnn-edits-out-milwaukee-victims-sister-sherelle-sm/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2017, 02:13:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2017, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2017, 01:30:44 AM
Conway is finished

https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/829045193131380736

Anyone who voted for Trump pays fvck all attention to what CNN or The NY Times has to say....haven't they more important things to be doing such as rigging debates or selectively editing BLM protest videos

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/cnn-edits-out-milwaukee-victims-sister-sherelle-sm/
The media will drop her. She can't spin Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs

Jonathan Chait
I honestly was about to tweet that tonight, for the first time in weeks, Trump has not been reported saying or doing anything insane. Then:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/melissa-mccarthy-sean-spicer-234715

I feel sorry for the GOP. It is going to hell in a handcart with Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 08, 2017, 02:23:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2017, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2017, 01:30:44 AM
Conway is finished

https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/829045193131380736

Anyone who voted for Trump pays fvck all attention to what CNN or The NY Times has to say....haven't they more important things to be doing such as rigging debates or selectively editing BLM protest videos

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/cnn-edits-out-milwaukee-victims-sister-sherelle-sm/

Are they paying attention to Trump's bald-faced lies about the murder rate and reporting of muslim atrocities?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2017, 02:34:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2017, 02:23:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2017, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2017, 01:30:44 AM
Conway is finished

https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/829045193131380736

Anyone who voted for Trump pays fvck all attention to what CNN or The NY Times has to say....haven't they more important things to be doing such as rigging debates or selectively editing BLM protest videos

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/cnn-edits-out-milwaukee-victims-sister-sherelle-sm/

Are they paying attention to Trump's bald-faced lies about the murder rate and reporting of muslim atrocities?

Theres no such things as lies anymore.....there are alternative facts that dont pass through the biased filter of the main stream media

Turn on CNN.....Bernie and Ted Cruz having a great debate on healthcare
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 08, 2017, 03:02:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2017, 02:34:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2017, 02:23:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2017, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2017, 01:30:44 AM
Conway is finished

https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/829045193131380736

Anyone who voted for Trump pays fvck all attention to what CNN or The NY Times has to say....haven't they more important things to be doing such as rigging debates or selectively editing BLM protest videos

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/cnn-edits-out-milwaukee-victims-sister-sherelle-sm/

Are they paying attention to Trump's bald-faced lies about the murder rate and reporting of muslim atrocities?

Theres no such things as lies anymore.....there are alternative facts that dont pass through the biased filter of the main stream media

Turn on CNN.....Bernie and Ted Cruz having a great debate on healthcare

I know you're taking the piss, but that does seem to be what Trump is aiming for.

Regardless, it was good to hear NPR refuse to be intimidated by him and call his bullshit out for what it is (they're the only ones I heard today - hopefully others did too).

You can fill us in tomorrow on Bernie and Ted! Substance, not shouting, I hope?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2017, 03:48:17 AM
David Frum ‏@davidfrum  4 h
il y a 4 heures


Plus
David Frum a retweeté David Frum
"It's a ban on Muslims coming from countries that start w I and have 2 syllables, or start with S and also contain an 'a', plus Yemen."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 08, 2017, 12:14:03 PM
Trump crying now that Politics is stopping him get the ban he wants . . . did nobody tell him this wasn't another series of the Apprentice and that Politics is the gig??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Zulu on February 08, 2017, 09:56:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pxyMjSV6vg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2017, 10:00:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 08, 2017, 12:14:03 PM
Trump crying now that Politics is stopping him get the ban he wants . . . did nobody tell him this wasn't another series of the Apprentice and that Politics is the gig??!!

and Nordstrom as well for dropping Ivanka's clothing line
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 09, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
Quoteand Nordstrom as well for dropping Ivanka's clothing line

America First  ;) ;) ;) ;)

(http://images.gawker.com/styqp32hsfe5cpgynz08/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on February 09, 2017, 09:45:27 AM
Trump insult generator.

https://mobile.twitter.com/WelshDalaiLama/status/829386075030376449/photo/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 09, 2017, 10:25:36 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 09, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
Quoteand Nordstrom as well for dropping Ivanka's clothing line

America First  ;) ;) ;) ;)

(http://images.gawker.com/styqp32hsfe5cpgynz08/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800.png)
That picture reminds me of the time a lowly waiter recorded Romney secretly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 09, 2017, 10:52:34 AM
Get the first of your Blood Diamonds

Leaked Trump Presidential Memo Would Free U.S. Companies to Buy Conflict Minerals From Central African Warlords
Lee Fang
2017-02-08T21:01:55+00:00

The leaked draft of a presidential memorandum Donald Trump is expected to sign within days suspends a 2010 rule that discouraged American companies from funding conflict and human rights abuses in the Democratic Republic of Congo through their purchase of  "conflict minerals."

The memo, distributed inside the administration on Friday afternoon and obtained by The Intercept, directs the Securities and Exchange Commission to temporarily waive the requirements of the Conflict Mineral Rule, a provision of the Dodd Frank Act, for two years — which the rule explicitly allows the president to do for national security purposes. The memorandum also directs the State Department and Treasury Department to find an alternative plan to "address such problems in the DRC and adjoining countries."

The idea behind the rule, which had bipartisan support, was to drain militias of revenue by forcing firms to conduct reviews of their supply chain to determine if contractors used minerals sourced from the militias.

The impending decision comes as Trump held a meeting Wednesday with Brian Krzanich, the chief executive of Intel, one of the leading firms impacted by conflict mineral regulations. At the White House today, Krzanich appeared with the president to announce a new manufacturing plant in Arizona.

Human rights advocates — who had celebrated the conflicts rule as a major step forward — were appalled. "Any executive action suspending the U.S. conflict minerals rule would be a gift to predatory armed groups seeking to profit from Congo's minerals as well as a gift to companies wanting to do business with the criminal and the corrupt," said Carly Oboth, the policy adviser at Global Witness, in a statement responding to a Reuters article that first reported the move.

"It is an abuse of power that the Trump administration is claiming that the law should be suspended through a national security exemption intended for emergency purposes. Suspending this provision could actually undermine U.S. national security."

Advanced computer chips, including technology used in cell phones and semiconductors, contain minerals often sourced from war-torn countries in central Africa. Firms such as Intel, Apple, HP, and IBM use advanced chips that contain tantalum, gold, tin, and tungsten — elements that can be mined at low prices in the the DRC, where mines are often controlled by militias fueling a decadeslong civil war.

American tech companies, such as Intel, lobbied directly on the rule when it was proposed. But since passage, tech firms have largely used third party business groups to stymie the rule. Trade groups representing major U.S. tech firms and other manufacturers, including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable, attempted to block the rule through a federal lawsuit. In 2014, a federal court struck down a part of the rule that forced firms to reveal DRC conflict minerals on their corporate websites.

Intel is also one of the firms that has touted its effort to comply with the law, publishing a report that notes the company has conducted 40 on-site reviews of smelters in the eastern DRC.

Reuters also reported that acting SEC chief Michael Piwowar has taken steps to also weaken enforcement, asking staff to "reconsider how companies should comply."

Read the draft memo here:https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3457048-Document-Final.html#document/p1 (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3457048-Document-Final.html#document/p1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 09, 2017, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2017, 10:25:36 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 09, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
Quoteand Nordstrom as well for dropping Ivanka's clothing line

America First  ;) ;) ;) ;)

(http://images.gawker.com/styqp32hsfe5cpgynz08/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800.png)
That picture reminds me of the time a lowly waiter recorded Romney secretly.

Haha....youre very guiilble if you actually believe that.....Democratic dirty tricks at their finest, recentlt matched and surpassed by Bannon and Trump.....its a race to the bottom
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 09, 2017, 12:27:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2017, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2017, 10:25:36 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 09, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
Quoteand Nordstrom as well for dropping Ivanka's clothing line

America First  ;) ;) ;) ;)

(http://images.gawker.com/styqp32hsfe5cpgynz08/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800.png)
That picture reminds me of the time a lowly waiter recorded Romney secretly.

Haha....youre very guiilble if you actually believe that.....Democratic dirty tricks at their finest, recentlt matched and surpassed by Bannon and Trump.....its a race to the bottom

These boys on here don't have to believe things like this stuff, they merely need to wish it to be true!

I wish they would just accept their hoor lost and get on with it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2017, 12:58:47 PM
Here stew - do you think the President should be publically berating a company about their business practices just because it affect's his families bottom line?


See if you can answer without mentioning Hillary or Obama.

I'll be back for your answer later. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on February 09, 2017, 01:50:27 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 09, 2017, 10:52:34 AM
Get the first of your Blood Diamonds

Leaked Trump Presidential Memo Would Free U.S. Companies to Buy Conflict Minerals From Central African Warlords
Lee Fang
2017-02-08T21:01:55+00:00

The leaked draft of a presidential memorandum Donald Trump is expected to sign within days suspends a 2010 rule that discouraged American companies from funding conflict and human rights abuses in the Democratic Republic of Congo through their purchase of  "conflict minerals."

The memo, distributed inside the administration on Friday afternoon and obtained by The Intercept, directs the Securities and Exchange Commission to temporarily waive the requirements of the Conflict Mineral Rule, a provision of the Dodd Frank Act, for two years — which the rule explicitly allows the president to do for national security purposes. The memorandum also directs the State Department and Treasury Department to find an alternative plan to "address such problems in the DRC and adjoining countries."

The idea behind the rule, which had bipartisan support, was to drain militias of revenue by forcing firms to conduct reviews of their supply chain to determine if contractors used minerals sourced from the militias.

The impending decision comes as Trump held a meeting Wednesday with Brian Krzanich, the chief executive of Intel, one of the leading firms impacted by conflict mineral regulations. At the White House today, Krzanich appeared with the president to announce a new manufacturing plant in Arizona.

Human rights advocates — who had celebrated the conflicts rule as a major step forward — were appalled. "Any executive action suspending the U.S. conflict minerals rule would be a gift to predatory armed groups seeking to profit from Congo's minerals as well as a gift to companies wanting to do business with the criminal and the corrupt," said Carly Oboth, the policy adviser at Global Witness, in a statement responding to a Reuters article that first reported the move.

"It is an abuse of power that the Trump administration is claiming that the law should be suspended through a national security exemption intended for emergency purposes. Suspending this provision could actually undermine U.S. national security."

Advanced computer chips, including technology used in cell phones and semiconductors, contain minerals often sourced from war-torn countries in central Africa. Firms such as Intel, Apple, HP, and IBM use advanced chips that contain tantalum, gold, tin, and tungsten — elements that can be mined at low prices in the the DRC, where mines are often controlled by militias fueling a decadeslong civil war.

American tech companies, such as Intel, lobbied directly on the rule when it was proposed. But since passage, tech firms have largely used third party business groups to stymie the rule. Trade groups representing major U.S. tech firms and other manufacturers, including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable, attempted to block the rule through a federal lawsuit. In 2014, a federal court struck down a part of the rule that forced firms to reveal DRC conflict minerals on their corporate websites.

Intel is also one of the firms that has touted its effort to comply with the law, publishing a report that notes the company has conducted 40 on-site reviews of smelters in the eastern DRC.

Reuters also reported that acting SEC chief Michael Piwowar has taken steps to also weaken enforcement, asking staff to "reconsider how companies should comply."

Read the draft memo here:https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3457048-Document-Final.html#document/p1 (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3457048-Document-Final.html#document/p1)

The conflict materials legislation is purely a box ticking exercise and is easily circumvented by third party distribution channels who have no issues telling component manufacturers that they comply when lord only knows they're sourcing their tantalum or whatever. Its a joke anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 09, 2017, 02:32:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2017, 12:04:32 PM

Haha....youre very guiilble if you actually believe that.....Democratic dirty tricks at their finest, recentlt matched and surpassed by Bannon and Trump.....its a race to the bottom


http://www.racked.com/2016/10/12/13243756/ivanka-trump-shoe-factory-violations

http://footwearnews.com/2016/business/power-players/ivanka-trump-business-partner-responds-workers-rights-violations-factory-china-donald-trump-268799/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/business/donald-trump-ivanka-clothes-global-trade-overseas-manufacturing.html?_r=0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 09, 2017, 02:45:31 PM
Quote from: stew on February 09, 2017, 12:27:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2017, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2017, 10:25:36 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 09, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
Quoteand Nordstrom as well for dropping Ivanka's clothing line

America First  ;) ;) ;) ;)

(http://images.gawker.com/styqp32hsfe5cpgynz08/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800.png)
That picture reminds me of the time a lowly waiter recorded Romney secretly.

Haha....youre very guiilble if you actually believe that.....Democratic dirty tricks at their finest, recentlt matched and surpassed by Bannon and Trump.....its a race to the bottom

These boys on here don't have to believe things like this stuff, they merely need to wish it to be true!

I wish they would just accept their hoor lost and get on with it.

What does pointing out the hypocrisy and bullshit of Trump's "America First" shite, when he and his family's companies manufacture all kinds of stuff abroad, including in China (of the trade deficit horror show), have to do with Hillary?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 09, 2017, 03:29:58 PM
Trump's Supreme Court nominee said he was disgusted by the attacks on that Federal judge. Trump is a joke.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 09, 2017, 03:33:03 PM
Conway also broke a ban on federal employees using public office for the endorsement of a product . . . and Spicer made up a terror attack in Atlanta!

But hey!! Give them a chance!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 09, 2017, 08:58:38 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 09, 2017, 03:33:03 PM
Conway also broke a ban on federal employees using public office for the endorsement of a product . . . and Spicer made up a terror attack in Atlanta!

But hey!! Give them a chance!!

As opposed to having a predisposition to hanging them before they have had a trial, f**k off you whiney liberal p***k!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 09, 2017, 09:01:09 PM
Obama like Bush before him did what he like the constitution be damned! Trump is doing the same and he is no better no worse than either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 09, 2017, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: stew on February 09, 2017, 09:01:09 PM
Obama like Bush before him did what he like the constitution be damned! Trump is doing the same and he is no better no worse than either.

Which of Obamas orders sparked demonstrations like we've seen the past weeks?? Yes Bush did but people had every right to demonstrate as he led the country into a phoney war just as they should for Trumps f**king stupid ban!!

You talk of giving him a chance well he's had 2 weeks and the Country is cowped! Half the population are totally against him as well as the Supreme Court. His staff can barely string a sentence together without f**king up and his idea of draining the swamp is filling positions with Ex Big Oil/Goldman Sachs and that complete halfwit as the Education Secretary!

Not to mention the elevation of that vile excuse of a human being Bannon to the National Security Council . . .

How many f**king chances does he need?? You need to take your head out of your arse stew and see what's happening  front of your eyes it's a shambles of an administration and it's only a few weeks old!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2017, 11:25:24 PM
Can't wait to see the twitter account tonight

QuoteBREAKING: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rules against reinstating Trump's immigration executive order

(http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/popcorn-dis-gon-b-gud/popcorn01.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 09, 2017, 11:33:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2017, 11:25:24 PM
Can't wait to see the twitter account tonight

QuoteBREAKING: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rules against reinstating Trump's immigration executive order

(http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/popcorn-dis-gon-b-gud/popcorn01.gif)

Win win for Trump...he appeases the base and if there's a terror attack expect an " I told you so"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2017, 11:42:21 PM
HE'S MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

(http://i.imgur.com/GguUzns.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2017, 11:48:44 PM
Unanimous decision by the three judges.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2017, 12:36:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2017, 11:33:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2017, 11:25:24 PM
Can't wait to see the twitter account tonight

QuoteBREAKING: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rules against reinstating Trump's immigration executive order

(http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/popcorn-dis-gon-b-gud/popcorn01.gif)

Win win for Trump...he appeases the base and if there's a terror attack expect an " I told you so"

You don't seem to have a very high opinion of the intelligence of his base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2017, 12:38:16 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2017, 11:42:21 PM
HE'S MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

(http://i.imgur.com/GguUzns.png)

A shame for him that Gorsuch has not been confirmed yet.

Court is split 4-4 down the middle, with Kennedy and Roberts usually, but not always, sure things.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 10, 2017, 12:44:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 12:36:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2017, 11:33:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2017, 11:25:24 PM
Can't wait to see the twitter account tonight

QuoteBREAKING: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rules against reinstating Trump's immigration executive order

(http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/popcorn-dis-gon-b-gud/popcorn01.gif)

Win win for Trump...he appeases the base and if there's a terror attack expect an " I told you so"

You don't seem to have a very high opinion of the intelligence of his base.

Intelligent people can have irrational fears....e.g. Democrats who think Trump
Is going to ban all Muslims from entering the country
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2017, 01:10:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 10, 2017, 12:44:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 12:36:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2017, 11:33:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2017, 11:25:24 PM
Can't wait to see the twitter account tonight

QuoteBREAKING: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rules against reinstating Trump's immigration executive order

(http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/popcorn-dis-gon-b-gud/popcorn01.gif)

Win win for Trump...he appeases the base and if there's a terror attack expect an " I told you so"

You don't seem to have a very high opinion of the intelligence of his base.

Intelligent people can have irrational fears....e.g. Democrats who think Trump
Is going to ban all Muslims from entering the country

Nothing irrational about anyone thinking Trump might want to do that - he did campaign on it after all, while the recent storiess about Bannon's views (and those of some other appointees) don't exactly assuage such concerns either. Of course, as with the current, more limited ban, it would be subject to swift court challenges and enormous political cost, to say nothing of the public backlash, if he actually tried to push it through.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 10, 2017, 01:52:21 AM
3 weeks in, and already50 craziest things?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwj_CGFaEU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwj_CGFaEU)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 10, 2017, 07:51:00 AM
Trump is at war with the judges
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 10, 2017, 08:15:49 AM
Quote from: stew on February 09, 2017, 09:01:09 PM
Obama like Bush before him did what he like the constitution be damned! Trump is doing the same and he is no better no worse than either.
Neither Bush nor Obama attacked the judiciary. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 10, 2017, 11:47:48 AM
Now even his SCOTUS nominee is pissed off with him.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/gorsuch-disheartened-trump-attacks-judges/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 03:19:39 PM
This is pissfunny - This just shows how the current brainwashing by liberals isn't just limited to adults.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5317964951001/?#sp=show-clips

Love the Dallas snippet..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Yes, because one couldn't go to some conservative event or protest and cobble together enough footage from idiots to paint them all as clueless, ill-informed morons or wasters.

BTW, you're doing a piss-poor job of debating and educating us supposedly brain-washed liberals foxcommander.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Yes, because one couldn't go to some conservative event or protest and cobble together enough footage from idiots to paint them all as clueless, ill-informed morons or wasters.

BTW, you're doing a piss-poor job of debating and educating us supposedly brain-washed liberals foxcommander.

It's not a job, it's a hobby. People like yourself are too far gone to save.

These poor kids have been told President Trump is evil by their parents and teachers without knowing the first thing about him as indicated by the comments in that clip. That is worrying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2017, 05:17:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Yes, because one couldn't go to some conservative event or protest and cobble together enough footage from idiots to paint them all as clueless, ill-informed morons or wasters.

BTW, you're doing a piss-poor job of debating and educating us supposedly brain-washed liberals foxcommander.

It's not a job, it's a hobby. People like yourself are too far gone to save.

I'm subject to the same logic and reason as everyone else. If I'm not, you certainly haven't demonstrated that.

Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
These poor kids have been told President Trump is evil by their parents and teachers without knowing the first thing about him as indicated by the comments in that clip. That is worrying.

If that is worrying, then what about all the kids who appeared and appear at pro-Trump rallies or wore "Jail Hillary" t-shirts? Are they more informed and better versed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 10, 2017, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 03:19:39 PM
This is pissfunny - This just shows how the current brainwashing by liberals isn't just limited to adults.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5317964951001/?#sp=show-clips

Love the Dallas snippet..


Please explain to me how that demonstrates brainwashing. It's just a selectively edited  typical "fair and balanced" hit piece on some high school kids who preferred to attend a march against Trump over going to school.
All from the school of Roger Ailes where you get all of your BS. Now please tell me again who is the brainwashed one, a  mhadra rua
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 05:17:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Yes, because one couldn't go to some conservative event or protest and cobble together enough footage from idiots to paint them all as clueless, ill-informed morons or wasters.

BTW, you're doing a piss-poor job of debating and educating us supposedly brain-washed liberals foxcommander.

It's not a job, it's a hobby. People like yourself are too far gone to save.

I'm subject to the same logic and reason as everyone else. If I'm not, you certainly haven't demonstrated that.

Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
These poor kids have been told President Trump is evil by their parents and teachers without knowing the first thing about him as indicated by the comments in that clip. That is worrying.

If that is worrying, then what about all the kids who appeared and appear at pro-Trump rallies or wore "Jail Hillary" t-shirts? Are they more informed and better versed?

Electioneering - you know there's always some of that. Enda and Co are known to throw some mud if it gets a few votes.

But this is post election and the democrats can't let it go. Encouraging kids not old enough to vote and understand the issues to go out and protest is irresponsible.

Fake Pocahontas (Senator Warren) and the likes of her think their job is to block and smear President Trump and his team at every opportunity to score cheap points. It's about time she showed actual leadership instead of throwing hissy fits. The way it's going she's not making a great case to run in 2020 for President.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:33:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 10, 2017, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 03:19:39 PM
This is pissfunny - This just shows how the current brainwashing by liberals isn't just limited to adults.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5317964951001/?#sp=show-clips

Love the Dallas snippet..


Please explain to me how that demonstrates brainwashing. It's just a selectively edited  typical "fair and balanced" hit piece on some high school kids who preferred to attend a march against Trump over going to school.
All from the school of Roger Ailes where you get all of your BS. Now please tell me again who is the brainwashed one, a  mhadra rua

The bit where they are protesting against something they have vaguely heard about and are treating it as fact but they don't actually know the real details. That bit.

The most popular girl in school told me J70 has cooties and he's been caught kissing Eamonnca1*. This might not be true but what the hell. Let's spread it on Facebook.

Same thing.

* - to repeat this is not factually correct at time of going to press
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 10, 2017, 06:35:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 05:17:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Yes, because one couldn't go to some conservative event or protest and cobble together enough footage from idiots to paint them all as clueless, ill-informed morons or wasters.

BTW, you're doing a piss-poor job of debating and educating us supposedly brain-washed liberals foxcommander.

It's not a job, it's a hobby. People like yourself are too far gone to save.

I'm subject to the same logic and reason as everyone else. If I'm not, you certainly haven't demonstrated that.

Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
These poor kids have been told President Trump is evil by their parents and teachers without knowing the first thing about him as indicated by the comments in that clip. That is worrying.

If that is worrying, then what about all the kids who appeared and appear at pro-Trump rallies or wore "Jail Hillary" t-shirts? Are they more informed and better versed?

Electioneering - you know there's always some of that. Enda and Co are known to throw some mud if it gets a few votes.

But this is post election and the democrats can't let it go. Encouraging kids not old enough to vote and understand the issues to go out and protest is irresponsible.

Fake Pocahontas (Senator Warren) and the likes of her think their job is to block and smear President Trump and his team at every opportunity to score cheap points. It's about time she showed actual leadership instead of throwing hissy fits. The way it's going she's not making a great case to run in 2020 for President.
Trump's UK visit will happen when Parliament is in recess so as to avoid protests.
And he'll be behind a cordon for most of the time
the guy is a liability and it's only 2 weeks in

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/british-officials-drop-plans-donald-trump-address-parliament-queen-elizabeth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 10, 2017, 06:42:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/world/europe/bannon-vatican-julius-evola-fascism.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 07:28:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 10, 2017, 06:35:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 05:17:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Yes, because one couldn't go to some conservative event or protest and cobble together enough footage from idiots to paint them all as clueless, ill-informed morons or wasters.

BTW, you're doing a piss-poor job of debating and educating us supposedly brain-washed liberals foxcommander.

It's not a job, it's a hobby. People like yourself are too far gone to save.

I'm subject to the same logic and reason as everyone else. If I'm not, you certainly haven't demonstrated that.

Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
These poor kids have been told President Trump is evil by their parents and teachers without knowing the first thing about him as indicated by the comments in that clip. That is worrying.

If that is worrying, then what about all the kids who appeared and appear at pro-Trump rallies or wore "Jail Hillary" t-shirts? Are they more informed and better versed?

Electioneering - you know there's always some of that. Enda and Co are known to throw some mud if it gets a few votes.

But this is post election and the democrats can't let it go. Encouraging kids not old enough to vote and understand the issues to go out and protest is irresponsible.

Fake Pocahontas (Senator Warren) and the likes of her think their job is to block and smear President Trump and his team at every opportunity to score cheap points. It's about time she showed actual leadership instead of throwing hissy fits. The way it's going she's not making a great case to run in 2020 for President.
Trump's UK visit will happen when Parliament is in recess so as to avoid protests.
And he'll be behind a cordon for most of the time
the guy is a liability and it's only 2 weeks in

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/british-officials-drop-plans-donald-trump-address-parliament-queen-elizabeth

If the people/media in the USA hadn't reacted to the Trump win in this manner do you think other countries would have followed suit? It reminds me of the hysteria when Princess Diana died.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2017, 07:55:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 05:17:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Yes, because one couldn't go to some conservative event or protest and cobble together enough footage from idiots to paint them all as clueless, ill-informed morons or wasters.

BTW, you're doing a piss-poor job of debating and educating us supposedly brain-washed liberals foxcommander.

It's not a job, it's a hobby. People like yourself are too far gone to save.

I'm subject to the same logic and reason as everyone else. If I'm not, you certainly haven't demonstrated that.

Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
These poor kids have been told President Trump is evil by their parents and teachers without knowing the first thing about him as indicated by the comments in that clip. That is worrying.

If that is worrying, then what about all the kids who appeared and appear at pro-Trump rallies or wore "Jail Hillary" t-shirts? Are they more informed and better versed?

Electioneering - you know there's always some of that. Enda and Co are known to throw some mud if it gets a few votes.

But this is post election and the democrats can't let it go. Encouraging kids not old enough to vote and understand the issues to go out and protest is irresponsible.

Fake Pocahontas (Senator Warren) and the likes of her think their job is to block and smear President Trump and his team at every opportunity to score cheap points. It's about time she showed actual leadership instead of throwing hissy fits. The way it's going she's not making a great case to run in 2020 for President.

Did you miss the last eight years?

Were you condemning the GOP for their scorched earth, not an inch, obstructionism?

If not, then spare us the whining about the horrible actions of Warren and the Democrats.

Out of interest though , what "smears" are you talking about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 08:16:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 07:55:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 05:17:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Yes, because one couldn't go to some conservative event or protest and cobble together enough footage from idiots to paint them all as clueless, ill-informed morons or wasters.

BTW, you're doing a piss-poor job of debating and educating us supposedly brain-washed liberals foxcommander.

It's not a job, it's a hobby. People like yourself are too far gone to save.

I'm subject to the same logic and reason as everyone else. If I'm not, you certainly haven't demonstrated that.

Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
These poor kids have been told President Trump is evil by their parents and teachers without knowing the first thing about him as indicated by the comments in that clip. That is worrying.

If that is worrying, then what about all the kids who appeared and appear at pro-Trump rallies or wore "Jail Hillary" t-shirts? Are they more informed and better versed?

Electioneering - you know there's always some of that. Enda and Co are known to throw some mud if it gets a few votes.

But this is post election and the democrats can't let it go. Encouraging kids not old enough to vote and understand the issues to go out and protest is irresponsible.

Fake Pocahontas (Senator Warren) and the likes of her think their job is to block and smear President Trump and his team at every opportunity to score cheap points. It's about time she showed actual leadership instead of throwing hissy fits. The way it's going she's not making a great case to run in 2020 for President.

Did you miss the last eight years?

Were you condemning the GOP for their scorched earth, not an inch, obstructionism?

If not, then spare us the whining about the horrible actions of Warren and the Democrats.

Out of interest though , what "smears" are you talking about?

Fake Pocahontas and Jeff Sessions for starters.

So you condone the democrats approach. Whatever happened to the rally cry of Michelle Obama -
"When they go low we go high"

Empty rhetoric eh? Just like the husband.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 10, 2017, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 08:16:05 PM
Fake Pocahontas and Jeff Sessions for starters.

What exactly was the smear?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2017, 08:49:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 08:16:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 07:55:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 05:17:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Yes, because one couldn't go to some conservative event or protest and cobble together enough footage from idiots to paint them all as clueless, ill-informed morons or wasters.

BTW, you're doing a piss-poor job of debating and educating us supposedly brain-washed liberals foxcommander.

It's not a job, it's a hobby. People like yourself are too far gone to save.

I'm subject to the same logic and reason as everyone else. If I'm not, you certainly haven't demonstrated that.

Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
These poor kids have been told President Trump is evil by their parents and teachers without knowing the first thing about him as indicated by the comments in that clip. That is worrying.

If that is worrying, then what about all the kids who appeared and appear at pro-Trump rallies or wore "Jail Hillary" t-shirts? Are they more informed and better versed?

Electioneering - you know there's always some of that. Enda and Co are known to throw some mud if it gets a few votes.

But this is post election and the democrats can't let it go. Encouraging kids not old enough to vote and understand the issues to go out and protest is irresponsible.

Fake Pocahontas (Senator Warren) and the likes of her think their job is to block and smear President Trump and his team at every opportunity to score cheap points. It's about time she showed actual leadership instead of throwing hissy fits. The way it's going she's not making a great case to run in 2020 for President.

Did you miss the last eight years?

Were you condemning the GOP for their scorched earth, not an inch, obstructionism?

If not, then spare us the whining about the horrible actions of Warren and the Democrats.

Out of interest though , what "smears" are you talking about?

Fake Pocahontas and Jeff Sessions for starters.

So you condone the democrats approach. Whatever happened to the rally cry of Michelle Obama -
"When they go low we go high"

Empty rhetoric eh? Just like the husband.

I never gave an opinion either way.

You're the one complaining, but I don't recall you disavowing the tactics of the GOP over the past eight years. A question about which you ignored. As per usual.

And how did Warren smear Sessions?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2017, 08:52:26 PM
And on condoning, I'm not sure WHAT the right approach is, as in what approach will benefit progressive causes.

Because the Dems don't owe the GOP a f**king thing. The GOP debased the political system over the past eight years. They're not entitled to any condemnation of anyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 10, 2017, 10:05:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:33:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 10, 2017, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 03:19:39 PM
This is pissfunny - This just shows how the current brainwashing by liberals isn't just limited to adults.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5317964951001/?#sp=show-clips

Love the Dallas snippet..


Please explain to me how that demonstrates brainwashing. It's just a selectively edited  typical "fair and balanced" hit piece on some high school kids who preferred to attend a march against Trump over going to school.
All from the school of Roger Ailes where you get all of your BS. Now please tell me again who is the brainwashed one, a  mhadra rua

The bit where they are protesting against something they have vaguely heard about and are treating it as fact but they don't actually know the real details. That bit.

The most popular girl in school told me J70 has cooties and he's been caught kissing Eamonnca1*. This might not be true but what the hell. Let's spread it on Facebook.

Same thing.

* - to repeat this is not factually correct at time of going to press


Here's the definition of
Brainwashing | Definition of Brainwashing by Merriam-Webster
Merriam-Webster › dictionary › brainwa...
Definition of brainwashing. 1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas. 2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship.

They were a bunch of low information high school kids with their hearts in the right place who were "Gotcha'd" by a "fair and balanced" Fox propagandist. If there was any evidence of brainwashing on that video and I do not think there was. It was that smug prat Watters who hasn't the balls to pick a fight with someone his own size doing his master's bidding that was the closest thing to brainwashing that I saw.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 10, 2017, 10:05:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:33:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 10, 2017, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 03:19:39 PM
This is pissfunny - This just shows how the current brainwashing by liberals isn't just limited to adults.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5317964951001/?#sp=show-clips

Love the Dallas snippet..


Please explain to me how that demonstrates brainwashing. It's just a selectively edited  typical "fair and balanced" hit piece on some high school kids who preferred to attend a march against Trump over going to school.
All from the school of Roger Ailes where you get all of your BS. Now please tell me again who is the brainwashed one, a  mhadra rua

The bit where they are protesting against something they have vaguely heard about and are treating it as fact but they don't actually know the real details. That bit.

The most popular girl in school told me J70 has cooties and he's been caught kissing Eamonnca1*. This might not be true but what the hell. Let's spread it on Facebook.

Same thing.

* - to repeat this is not factually correct at time of going to press


Here's the definition of
Brainwashing | Definition of Brainwashing by Merriam-Webster
Merriam-Webster › dictionary › brainwa...
Definition of brainwashing. 1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas. 2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship.

They were a bunch of low information high school kids with their hearts in the right place who were "Gotcha'd" by a "fair and balanced" Fox propagandist. If there was any evidence of brainwashing on that video and I do not think there was. It was that smug prat Watters who hasn't the balls to pick a fight with someone his own size doing his master's bidding that was the closest thing to brainwashing that I saw.

Shame about their brains

Is there a CNN junior channel -  like Nickelodeon or Disney? :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 10, 2017, 10:18:38 PM
So - it sounds like the authorities have been able to corroborate some of the information in that leaked document from about a month ago regarding Trump and Russia
 
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 10, 2017, 10:25:21 PM
Pochantas hasnt an ounce of credibility.....if thats the best the Democrats can come up with theyre in serious trouble

https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/notable-quotable-elizabeth-warren-on-school-vouchers-2017-02-08

"A well-designed voucher program would fit the bill neatly. A taxpayer-funded voucher that paid the entire cost of educating a child (not just a partial subsidy) would open a range of opportunities to all children. . . . Fully funded vouchers would relieve parents from the terrible choice of leaving their kids in lousy schools or bankrupting themselves to escape those schools."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 10, 2017, 10:18:38 PM
So - it sounds like the authorities have been able to corroborate some of the information in that leaked document from about a month ago regarding Trump and Russia
 
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html)

Does the US spy on other nations? We know they do.

I must live in an alternative universe to liberals - bitching and moaning about their secrets being exposed - it's like these things should never be revealed if it doesn't suit them.

Did trump's campaign not have a few well timed "leaks" as well - the Billy Bush interview for example. I wonder how long that footage was being held back.

Democrats lost. It's about time they got over it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 10, 2017, 11:39:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 10, 2017, 10:05:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 06:33:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 10, 2017, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 03:19:39 PM
This is pissfunny - This just shows how the current brainwashing by liberals isn't just limited to adults.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5317964951001/?#sp=show-clips

Love the Dallas snippet..


Please explain to me how that demonstrates brainwashing. It's just a selectively edited  typical "fair and balanced" hit piece on some high school kids who preferred to attend a march against Trump over going to school.
All from the school of Roger Ailes where you get all of your BS. Now please tell me again who is the brainwashed one, a  mhadra rua

The bit where they are protesting against something they have vaguely heard about and are treating it as fact but they don't actually know the real details. That bit.

The most popular girl in school told me J70 has cooties and he's been caught kissing Eamonnca1*. This might not be true but what the hell. Let's spread it on Facebook.

Same thing.

* - to repeat this is not factually correct at time of going to press


Here's the definition of
Brainwashing | Definition of Brainwashing by Merriam-Webster
Merriam-Webster › dictionary › brainwa...
Definition of brainwashing. 1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas. 2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship.

They were a bunch of low information high school kids with their hearts in the right place who were "Gotcha'd" by a "fair and balanced" Fox propagandist. If there was any evidence of brainwashing on that video and I do not think there was. It was that smug prat Watters who hasn't the balls to pick a fight with someone his own size doing his master's bidding that was the closest thing to brainwashing that I saw.

Shame about their brains

Is there a CNN junior channel -  like Nickelodeon or Disney? :D

You never respond with any evidence.. do you? Just ad hominem attacks on the IQ of kids.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2017, 12:46:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
I must live in an alternative universe to liberals

Now you're catching on, old boy!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 11, 2017, 01:31:46 AM
SCROTUS
So called ruler of the United States

made me laugh anyway...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 03:59:28 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 10, 2017, 10:18:38 PM
So - it sounds like the authorities have been able to corroborate some of the information in that leaked document from about a month ago regarding Trump and Russia
 
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html)

Does the US spy on other nations? We know they do.

I must live in an alternative universe to liberals - bitching and moaning about their secrets being exposed - it's like these things should never be revealed if it doesn't suit them.

Did trump's campaign not have a few well timed "leaks" as well - the Billy Bush interview for example. I wonder how long that footage was being held back.

Democrats lost. It's about time they got over it.
I think long term we will see that the GOP lost this election
A bit like FF in 2007

Trump has put Goldman Sachs in charge of Financial regulation
Remember what he said about draining the swamp. People who don't have your good in mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

Bernie Sanders ‏@SenSanders 18 h

Trump nominated people with views totally contradictory to what he campaigned on, like Rep. Price who wants to "end Medicare as we know it.

Bernie Sanders ‏@SenSanders 18 h

Trump told seniors and working people that they don't have to worry about their future. But his actions now are telling them the opposite.


The GOP is lashed to Trump . It will fall with him. Priebus has no hope against Bannon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 11, 2017, 08:47:47 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2017, 12:46:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
I must live in an alternative universe to liberals

Now you're catching on, old boy!

Be thankful you are fox, they f**k everything up they touch the useless wankers.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2017, 11:44:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 10, 2017, 10:18:38 PM
So - it sounds like the authorities have been able to corroborate some of the information in that leaked document from about a month ago regarding Trump and Russia
 
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html)

Does the US spy on other nations? We know they do.

I must live in an alternative universe to liberals - bitching and moaning about their secrets being exposed - it's like these things should never be revealed if it doesn't suit them.

Did trump's campaign not have a few well timed "leaks" as well - the Billy Bush interview for example. I wonder how long that footage was being held back.

Democrats lost. It's about time they got over it.

In case you hadn't noticed (I'm sure you have, but it doesn't suit you to not cherry pick your facts), the GOP, outside of the Trump circle, are also concerned about Russian interference.

And you obviously didn't read the link Gabriel Hurl posted - it's about the dossier that British lad put together, the one that concerned the Russians having info about Trump playing around with prostitutes over there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2017, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 10, 2017, 10:25:21 PM
Pochantas hasnt an ounce of credibility.....if thats the best the Democrats can come up with theyre in serious trouble

https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/notable-quotable-elizabeth-warren-on-school-vouchers-2017-02-08

"A well-designed voucher program would fit the bill neatly. A taxpayer-funded voucher that paid the entire cost of educating a child (not just a partial subsidy) would open a range of opportunities to all children. . . . Fully funded vouchers would relieve parents from the terrible choice of leaving their kids in lousy schools or bankrupting themselves to escape those schools."

I will let Warren answer these possibly hyped up charges herself, but is she not talking about vouchers for public schools here, as opposed to allowing vouchers to be used to remove kids from the public school system? Is she not talking about allowing parents, not local government, to choose WHICH public school their kids go to and keeping the money in the public school system?

In other words, where exactly is the hypocrisy? Has Warren since come out against any and all vouchers, or just the use of them to move kids and money into private schools?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2017, 12:28:31 PM
The Crybaby in Chief still can't deal with losing the popular vote. Now claiming that himself and Kelly Ayotte lost in NH due to voter fraud!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 12:58:26 PM
Warren and Sanders will hound Trump on working class pauperisation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2017, 01:52:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 12:58:26 PM
Warren and Sanders will hound Trump on working class pauperisation.

I have noticed that Trump hasn't attacked Sanders, despite Bernie not holding back in his criticism, calling him "delusional" this week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2017, 02:53:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2017, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 10, 2017, 10:25:21 PM
Pochantas hasnt an ounce of credibility.....if thats the best the Democrats can come up with theyre in serious trouble

https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/notable-quotable-elizabeth-warren-on-school-vouchers-2017-02-08

"A well-designed voucher program would fit the bill neatly. A taxpayer-funded voucher that paid the entire cost of educating a child (not just a partial subsidy) would open a range of opportunities to all children. . . . Fully funded vouchers would relieve parents from the terrible choice of leaving their kids in lousy schools or bankrupting themselves to escape those schools."

I will let Warren answer these possibly hyped up charges herself, but is she not talking about vouchers for public schools here, as opposed to allowing vouchers to be used to remove kids from the public school system? Is she not talking about allowing parents, not local government, to choose WHICH public school their kids go to and keeping the money in the public school system?

In other words, where exactly is the hypocrisy? Has Warren since come out against any and all vouchers, or just the use of them to move kids and money into private schools?

Democrats are against school choice and vouchers of ALL types (not just the vouchers that allow kids to attend charter schools)

www.nationalreview.com/article/430446/obama-against-school-choice
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2017, 03:06:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2017, 02:53:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2017, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 10, 2017, 10:25:21 PM
Pochantas hasnt an ounce of credibility.....if thats the best the Democrats can come up with theyre in serious trouble

https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/notable-quotable-elizabeth-warren-on-school-vouchers-2017-02-08

"A well-designed voucher program would fit the bill neatly. A taxpayer-funded voucher that paid the entire cost of educating a child (not just a partial subsidy) would open a range of opportunities to all children. . . . Fully funded vouchers would relieve parents from the terrible choice of leaving their kids in lousy schools or bankrupting themselves to escape those schools."

I will let Warren answer these possibly hyped up charges herself, but is she not talking about vouchers for public schools here, as opposed to allowing vouchers to be used to remove kids from the public school system? Is she not talking about allowing parents, not local government, to choose WHICH public school their kids go to and keeping the money in the public school system?

In other words, where exactly is the hypocrisy? Has Warren since come out against any and all vouchers, or just the use of them to move kids and money into private schools?

Democrats are against school choice and vouchers of ALL types (not just the vouchers that allow kids to attend charter schools)

www.nationalreview.com/article/430446/obama-against-school-choice

Ok, but what about Warren's supposed hypocrisy?

Has she come out against any and all voucher programs?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 04:56:16 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/10/trump-travel-ban-in-court-ninth-circuit-decision/

the executive order violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has stated in Larson v. Valente, "The clearest command of the Establishment Clause is that one religious denomination cannot be officially preferred over another." Yet Trump's order singles out only Muslim-majority countries for its outright ban on entry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 11, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 04:56:16 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/10/trump-travel-ban-in-court-ninth-circuit-decision/

the executive order violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has stated in Larson v. Valente, "The clearest command of the Establishment Clause is that one religious denomination cannot be officially preferred over another." Yet Trump's order singles out only Muslim-majority countries for its outright ban on entry.

You conveniently left outvtge fact that ALL denominations from those countries are banned not just Muslims!

I am wondering how countries he does business in over there are exempt allegedly.

I am all for stopping people getting in until they are properly vetted,once vetted they should be allowed in as political refugees.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2017, 08:46:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 11, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 04:56:16 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/10/trump-travel-ban-in-court-ninth-circuit-decision/

the executive order violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has stated in Larson v. Valente, "The clearest command of the Establishment Clause is that one religious denomination cannot be officially preferred over another." Yet Trump's order singles out only Muslim-majority countries for its outright ban on entry.

You conveniently left outvtge fact that ALL denominations from those countries are banned not just Muslims!

I am wondering how countries he does business in over there are exempt allegedly.

I am all for stopping people getting in until they are properly vetted,once vetted they should be allowed in as political refugees.

They ARE properly vetted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: No wides on February 11, 2017, 08:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2017, 08:46:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 11, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 04:56:16 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/10/trump-travel-ban-in-court-ninth-circuit-decision/

the executive order violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has stated in Larson v. Valente, "The clearest command of the Establishment Clause is that one religious denomination cannot be officially preferred over another." Yet Trump's order singles out only Muslim-majority countries for its outright ban on entry.

You conveniently left outvtge fact that ALL denominations from those countries are banned not just Muslims!

I am wondering how countries he does business in over there are exempt allegedly.

I am all for stopping people getting in until they are properly vetted,once vetted they should be allowed in as political refugees.

They ARE properly vetted.

Have you a copy of the criteria?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2017, 09:13:51 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 11, 2017, 08:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2017, 08:46:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 11, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 04:56:16 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/10/trump-travel-ban-in-court-ninth-circuit-decision/

the executive order violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has stated in Larson v. Valente, "The clearest command of the Establishment Clause is that one religious denomination cannot be officially preferred over another." Yet Trump's order singles out only Muslim-majority countries for its outright ban on entry.

You conveniently left outvtge fact that ALL denominations from those countries are banned not just Muslims!

I am wondering how countries he does business in over there are exempt allegedly.

I am all for stopping people getting in until they are properly vetted,once vetted they should be allowed in as political refugees.

They ARE properly vetted.

Have you a copy of the criteria?

It takes them years to clear the hurdles and background checks. And the lack of issues with them once they get here would suggest that the process is a thorough one. Of all the threats to people living in the US, terrorists posing and jumping through all the hoops refugees have to go through to gain access to the country is a miniscule one.

But go ahead and tell us yourself what is wrong with the process and how Trump can improve it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2017, 09:48:13 PM
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2015/11/20/infographic-screening-process-refugee-entry-united-states (https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2015/11/20/infographic-screening-process-refugee-entry-united-states)

(https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/wh_blog_refugee_workflow_1125.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on February 11, 2017, 09:50:24 PM
What's the deal with connection to bad actors?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 11, 2017, 11:31:33 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 11, 2017, 09:50:24 PM
What's the deal with connection to bad actors?

If you're related to Jeff Goldblum you're not gettin' in. Seems reasonable enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 12, 2017, 02:05:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2017, 12:46:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
I must live in an alternative universe to liberals

Now you're catching on, old boy!

The liberal universe - where all white males are viewed as evil and privileged and need to be exterminated from the planet, where the results of a democratic election are not accepted, where which bathroom you take a dump in becomes a national crisis, where rap is thought to be music, where disobeying law gets you support from a non-American US president, where tv and commercials beat you to death pushing diversity, where you can't afford to take care of your elderly/veterans but protest to bring in refugees, where rioting and looting is seen as an acceptable response if you're from a particular group and where Lena Dunham is revered as being funny and sexy.

No thank you.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 12, 2017, 03:33:05 AM
Whitey,
You're usually better than that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 12, 2017, 04:25:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2017, 02:05:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2017, 12:46:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
I must live in an alternative universe to liberals

Now you're catching on, old boy!

The liberal universe - where all white males are viewed as evil and privileged and need to be exterminated from the planet, where the results of a democratic election are not accepted, where which bathroom you take a dump in becomes a national crisis, where rap is thought to be music, where disobeying law gets you support from a non-American US president, where tv and commercials beat you to death pushing diversity, where you can't afford to take care of your elderly/veterans but protest to bring in refugees, where rioting and looting is seen as an acceptable response if you're from a particular group and where Lena Dunham is revered as being funny and sexy.

No thank you.

Typing while under the influence does not work for you😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 12, 2017, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2017, 08:46:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 11, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 04:56:16 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/10/trump-travel-ban-in-court-ninth-circuit-decision/

the executive order violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has stated in Larson v. Valente, "The clearest command of the Establishment Clause is that one religious denomination cannot be officially preferred over another." Yet Trump's order singles out only Muslim-majority countries for its outright ban on entry.

You conveniently left outvtge fact that ALL denominations from those countries are banned not just Muslims!

I am wondering how countries he does business in over there are exempt allegedly.

I am all for stopping people getting in until they are properly vetted,once vetted they should be allowed in as political refugees.

They ARE properly vetted.

They are not properly vetted, if they were there would not be a problem, get your head out of the sand, this has been an issue for many years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on February 12, 2017, 10:58:10 AM
Which immigrants from these countries have posed problems in the past stew? 9/11 was Saudis. Why are they not on the list by the way? The Boston lads were from some former soviet republic I think??

Basically he just identified countries he doesn't like/deal with, and banned them to be seen to be doing something to protect the borders. Real security be damned.

Of course if I believed in Machiavellian politics (I do) I'd almost expect some sort of attack now so the Trump can say there you go, and force through his ban.

If he banned Saudi's there'd at least be some sort of rationale behind it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2017, 11:13:50 AM
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2017, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2017, 08:46:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 11, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2017, 04:56:16 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/10/trump-travel-ban-in-court-ninth-circuit-decision/

the executive order violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has stated in Larson v. Valente, "The clearest command of the Establishment Clause is that one religious denomination cannot be officially preferred over another." Yet Trump's order singles out only Muslim-majority countries for its outright ban on entry.

You conveniently left outvtge fact that ALL denominations from those countries are banned not just Muslims!

I am wondering how countries he does business in over there are exempt allegedly.

I am all for stopping people getting in until they are properly vetted,once vetted they should be allowed in as political refugees.

They ARE properly vetted.

They are not properly vetted, if they were there would not be a problem, get your head out of the sand, this has been an issue for many years.

What's the problem stew?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2017, 12:06:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2017, 10:58:10 AM
Which immigrants from these countries have posed problems in the past stew? 9/11 was Saudis. Why are they not on the list by the way? The Boston lads were from some former soviet republic I think??

Basically he just identified countries he doesn't like/deal with, and banned them to be seen to be doing something to protect the borders. Real security be damned.

Of course if I believed in Machiavellian politics (I do) I'd almost expect some sort of attack now so the Trump can say there you go, and force through his ban.

If he banned Saudi's there'd at least be some sort of rationale behind it.

I read/heard that the 7 countries were originally identified by the Obama admin as countries where it was borderline impossible to verify people's identities.  Either way it was poorly thought out and implemented even though there may have been some logic behind it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2017, 12:23:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 12, 2017, 04:25:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2017, 02:05:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2017, 12:46:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 10, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
I must live in an alternative universe to liberals

Now you're catching on, old boy!

The liberal universe - where all white males are viewed as evil and privileged and need to be exterminated from the planet, where the results of a democratic election are not accepted, where which bathroom you take a dump in becomes a national crisis, where rap is thought to be music, where disobeying law gets you support from a non-American US president, where tv and commercials beat you to death pushing diversity, where you can't afford to take care of your elderly/veterans but protest to bring in refugees, where rioting and looting is seen as an acceptable response if you're from a particular group and where Lena Dunham is revered as being funny and sexy.

No thank you.

Typing while under the influence does not work for you😜

The poor craytur... white men being set up for extermination, gay people and interracial couples on tv, Lena Dunham held up as the epitome of sexy western womanhood, a "non-American president", uppity refugees coming in to use up all our homeless budget... how does a man get out of bed in the morning when confronted with such paranoid delusions?

Hope he's getting the help he needs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2017, 12:41:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2017, 12:06:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2017, 10:58:10 AM
Which immigrants from these countries have posed problems in the past stew? 9/11 was Saudis. Why are they not on the list by the way? The Boston lads were from some former soviet republic I think??

Basically he just identified countries he doesn't like/deal with, and banned them to be seen to be doing something to protect the borders. Real security be damned.

Of course if I believed in Machiavellian politics (I do) I'd almost expect some sort of attack now so the Trump can say there you go, and force through his ban.

If he banned Saudi's there'd at least be some sort of rationale behind it.

I read/heard that the 7 countries were originally identified by the Obama admin as countries where it was borderline impossible to verify people's identities.  Either way it was poorly thought out and implemented even though there may have been some logic behind it

Think the logic, as revealed by Rudy Giuliani on Fox News, was to find Trump a way to ban muslims legally. Presumably to deliver on his election promises.

And the previous rules looked at where people from countries with visa waivers had travelled or lived e.g. a lad from Paris or Brussels who had gone to Syria or Iraq would not automatically be allowed to enter the US due to concerns about him being radicalized and having gone there as a foreign fighter. It was pretty far from a blanket ban of citizens of those countries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2017, 01:03:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 12, 2017, 12:41:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2017, 12:06:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2017, 10:58:10 AM
Which immigrants from these countries have posed problems in the past stew? 9/11 was Saudis. Why are they not on the list by the way? The Boston lads were from some former soviet republic I think??

Basically he just identified countries he doesn't like/deal with, and banned them to be seen to be doing something to protect the borders. Real security be damned.

Of course if I believed in Machiavellian politics (I do) I'd almost expect some sort of attack now so the Trump can say there you go, and force through his ban.

If he banned Saudi's there'd at least be some sort of rationale behind it.

I read/heard that the 7 countries were originally identified by the Obama admin as countries where it was borderline impossible to verify people's identities.  Either way it was poorly thought out and implemented even though there may have been some logic behind it

Think the logic, as revealed by Rudy Giuliani on Fox News, was to find Trump a way to ban muslims legally. Presumably to deliver on his election promises.

And the previous rules looked at where people from countries with visa waivers had travelled or lived e.g. a lad from Paris or Brussels who had gone to Syria or Iraq would not automatically be allowed to enter the US due to concerns about him being radicalized and having gone there as a foreign fighter. It was pretty far from a blanket ban of citizens of those countries.
Bannon is a clown. He doesn't understand how government works. The story is hugely embarrassing.  The administration is off to a dreadful start. Quite like Brexit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
SNL on Spicer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbhz3XcNzGU


Al Franken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDqA7veCWns
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2017, 09:54:26 PM
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830054159885934593
PublicPolicyPolling
‏@ppppolls



By 51/23 margin, Trump voters say the Bowling Green Massacre shows why his Executive Order on immigration is needed:
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Orior on February 12, 2017, 10:39:34 PM
I thought this was mildly amusing, and clearly a good advert for Saturday Night Live...

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/alec-baldwin-snl-photo-newspaper-trump-1201985329/ (http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/alec-baldwin-snl-photo-newspaper-trump-1201985329/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Orior on February 12, 2017, 10:43:46 PM
It reminded me of this Not the Nine o'clock News sketch based on Ronnie Reagan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2n87YKSjrA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2n87YKSjrA)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 13, 2017, 11:56:23 AM
John Oliver is back. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ0aFG-S6nU#t=27m59s)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on February 14, 2017, 04:18:32 AM
Michael Flynn resigns from his National Security Adviser position on day 24 of Trump Presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2017, 05:16:37 AM
But ..... Hillary's emails?!?!?!?!!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 06:18:58 AM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/06/the-age-of-total-lies/

The welfare state was destroyed by globalization, de-industrialization, and the growing domination of corporations and the financial sector. Left-wing parties and left-wing criticism of capitalism is almost gone; the leftists have sided with neoliberalism, unions have been weakened or destroyed. Even when the banks collapsed in 2008, nothing changed. Taking over the problems of immigration and terrorism, right-wing politicians promised to "protect" citizens by spreading xenophobia, fear, and nationalism. They have risen to power by presenting themselves as the guardians of an abandoned working class, making appeals to nationalism and patriotic selfishness, and promising to kick the immigrants out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xecEV4dSAXE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 07:32:13 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on February 14, 2017, 04:18:32 AM
Michael Flynn resigns from his National Security Adviser position on day 24 of Trump Presidency.
Spicer will probably be next.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on February 14, 2017, 08:47:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 07:32:13 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on February 14, 2017, 04:18:32 AM
Michael Flynn resigns from his National Security Adviser position on day 24 of Trump Presidency.
Spicer will probably be next.

God I hope not. I love watching Spicer and Kelly Anne squeam on TV. They sit there and lie directly to the world. Those two are the only thing about this presidency I like, plus I would miss Melissa McCarthy on SNL.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 08:49:55 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on February 14, 2017, 08:47:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 07:32:13 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on February 14, 2017, 04:18:32 AM
Michael Flynn resigns from his National Security Adviser position on day 24 of Trump Presidency.
Spicer will probably be next.

God I hope not. I love watching Spicer and Kelly Anne squeam on TV. They sit there and lie directly to the world. Those two are the only thing about this presidency I like, plus I would miss Melissa McCarthy on SNL.
They are incompetent rather than evil. If it was Nuremberg they wouldn't be executed . Bannon and Miller would be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/13/trump-ran-a-campaign-based-on-intelligence-security-thats-not-how-hes-governing/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2017, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/13/trump-ran-a-campaign-based-on-intelligence-security-thats-not-how-hes-governing/

But...but... emails!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on February 14, 2017, 04:18:32 AM
Michael Flynn resigns from his National Security Adviser position on day 24 of Trump Presidency.

Shouldn't a man with his experience known that Russian diplomats are wire tapped?!

Shouldn't that type of illegal, treasonous skullduggery taken place on some poorly lit park bench?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2017, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/13/trump-ran-a-campaign-based-on-intelligence-security-thats-not-how-hes-governing/

But...but... emails!

From the link


"The problem is that Trump's Android phone would be very simple to hack to provide precisely the sort of access described above. NPR dug into the question of how secure that phone might be, and Berkeley computer scientist Nicholas Weaver was blunt.
"Donald Trump for the longest time has been using a insecure Android phone that by all reports is so easy to compromise, it would not meet the security requirements of a teenager," Weaver told NPR, and while he couldn't say for sure, "we must assume that his phone has actively been compromised for a while, and an actively compromised phone is literally a listening device."
That's just one of the phones that may have been at the table for the conversation.
The picture that's painted is one that runs contrary to the arguments Trump made on the campaign trail. While running for the presidency, cybersecurity and the risk of compromise were cardinal sins, necessitating that he be given the most powerful position in America. Now that he's attained that position, though, his attitude toward security seems a bit more lax."

Trump is the Gonzo Prez

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AWhwuPkTcg

And a muppet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 14, 2017, 12:19:32 PM
I'm actually feeling quite hopeful this morning...whilst I would have argued that Trump would love to be a neofascist strongman type, I was always banking on him being too incompetent to pull it off.

This is now being borne out, accelerated by the intelligence community flexing their muscles and killing off Flynn. Trump has dealt with plenty of Mafia wiseguys during his NY real estate days and even he should recognize the Flynn demise for what it is - dead haddock wrapped in newspaper direct from Langley, telling him that next time, he'll be the one sleeping with the fishes.

Given that Republican senators are now letting it be known that they have concerns about his mental state, the incredible reaction the Miller interviews have gotten, and the hassle Republicans are getting at townhalls up and down the country, I would be checking with Paddy Power the odds of him making the midterms.

Also the House Freedom Caucus are now saying they will table a bill to repeal Obamacare without a replacement, in a bid to tie the Democrats into talks on what the eventual replacement will be (which shows how stupid they are, no Democrat, even the Manchins and Heitkamps will touch the GOP on Obamacare, even if they wanted to, given the anger out there now) and there's a really good chance the GOP will finally strike the match after pouring the petrol (supplied by fossil fuel lobbyists) over their own heads.




Add to that the joy of seeing his supporters contort themselves more and more to justify their vote - but, but, emails? Thanks Obama
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 12:54:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 14, 2017, 12:19:32 PM
I'm actually feeling quite hopeful this morning...whilst I would have argued that Trump would love to be a neofascist strongman type, I was always banking on him being too incompetent to pull it off.

This is now being borne out, accelerated by the intelligence community flexing their muscles and killing off Flynn. Trump has dealt with plenty of Mafia wiseguys during his NY real estate days and even he should recognize the Flynn demise for what it is - dead haddock wrapped in newspaper direct from Langley, telling him that next time, he'll be the one sleeping with the fishes.

Given that Republican senators are now letting it be known that they have concerns about his mental state, the incredible reaction the Miller interviews have gotten, and the hassle Republicans are getting at townhalls up and down the country, I would be checking with Paddy Power the odds of him making the midterms.

Also the House Freedom Caucus are now saying they will table a bill to repeal Obamacare without a replacement, in a bid to tie the Democrats into talks on what the eventual replacement will be (which shows how stupid they are, no Democrat, even the Manchins and Heitkamps will touch the GOP on Obamacare, even if they wanted to, given the anger out there now) and there's a really good chance the GOP will finally strike the match after pouring the petrol (supplied by fossil fuel lobbyists) over their own heads.
Add to that the joy of seeing his supporters contort themselves more and more to justify their vote - but, but, emails? Thanks Obama

There is a lot of resistance to Trump but at the end of the day it's the same small group of plutocrats calling the shots

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/08/the-new-resistance-against-trump/

Today, defiance of Trump's order includes a multitude of politicians, bureaucrats, judges, and citizens. The mayors of the country's largest cities have led the opposition. Mayors have their own executive power. They make and enforce municipal laws, and preside over extensive infrastructure, housing issues, public employees and budgets. They also appoint police chiefs, and an impressive number have made it clear that they will not allow their law enforcement officers to comply with any future federal order to harass or round up undocumented immigrants for deportation. Speaking in support of protesters at Dallas/Fort Worth Airport on January 28, Dallas mayor Mike Rawlings called Trump's immigration ban "a foul insult to the rest of the country." In a pained incredulous voice, he added, "Dallas is not this sort of city.
During the weekend following the ban, protests erupted in Atlanta, Chicago, Seattle, Philadelphia, Boston, Washington, D.C., Minneapolis, San Francisco, Denver, Houston, Detroit, Los Angeles—thirty cities in all. Mayors Eric Garcetti of Los Angeles and Ed Murray of Seattle have the support of their governors in standing up for their immigrants, but opposition to Trump's order from Megan Barry of Nashville and Greg Fischer of Louisville, Democratic mayors in staunchly Republican states, shows the stark political split between municipalities and the suburbs and rural districts that surround them. In Minneapolis a protester dragged a cross on her back with the words, "Jesus Was A Refugee," and a significant number of Christian groups have condemned the ban.
Members of Congress report that their phone lines have been jammed with calls. And not only about the immigration ban: in record numbers citizens have been pushing elected officials to stand up to threats to the nation's public school system posed by the new education secretary, threats to the environment from Trump's climate-change-denying EPA nominee, the administration's plans to dismantle the civil rights division at the Justice Department, repeal the Affordable Care Act, and declaw the regulations of the Dodd-Frank Act that were put into place after the 2008 financial crash. A man told me he'd dialed Senator Schumer's office ninety-two times without reaching an actual person. He wanted to tell Schumer to stop voting for the confirmation of Trump's cabinet nominees. "I finally gave up and joined a group of people shouting outside the senator's apartment building on Eastern Parkway instead."
There's little doubt that the popular outcry has emboldened public officials to take action. Acting Attorney General Sally Yates's announcement on January 30 that she would instruct Justice Department lawyers not to argue in favor of Trump's order because it targeted Muslims seemed at least in part to be inspired by the protests. (Yates, an Obama appointee, was fired hours after she made the announcement.) The same appeared to be true of the hundred State Department employees who signed a Memo of Dissent over the order on the grounds that denying visas "to over 200 million legitimate travelers" would undermine international alliances and "not achieve its aim of making our country safer." A day after Trump's press secretary, Sean Spicer, invited the dissenting employees to get with the program or "get out," nine hundred more signed the memo, bringing the total to one thousand. It was remarkable to see career diplomats, a group not known for its boldness, willing to be sacked or blackballed within their department in order to publically express their concerns.




Greg Gilbert/The Seattle Times/AP Images

Mayor Ed Murray criticizing Trump's immigration order, Seattle, Washington, January 28, 2016
Demonstrators had gathered within earshot of a federal judge's courtroom in Brooklyn on January 28 when she issued the first stay to Trump's order. Within twenty-four hours, three more judges made similar rulings. Five days later, after a judge in Boston upheld parts of the president's order, a judge in Seattle, James Robart, who had been appointed by President George W. Bush, signed the most sweeping ruling against it yet. The plaintiff's brief was presented not by the ACLU but by the state's solicitor general, with the blessing of Washington's governor Jay Inslee. (The state of Minnesota later added its name to the brief, and fifteen states filed a supporting brief maintaining that the ban would harm their local economies and institutions.)
In a historical somersault, the federalist assertion of state rights—for decades the constitutional tool of segregationists and social conservatives—was now being invoked by the left to protect itself against an over-reaching president. Washington state, the solicitor general argued, would be hurt in the form of lost taxes, employment, and families in distress if lawful visa holders and returning residents were to be barred. "Federal courts have no more sacred role than protecting marginalized groups against irrational, discriminatory conduct," the brief said. Judge Robart agreed, adding that the president's order had failed to show that the banned travelers posed a threat to the country.
On Tuesday afternoon, the case went before the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in San Francisco, which had received an Amicus brief against the ban from nearly 130 tech companies, among them Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Uber, and Tesla. A ruling will probably be rendered before the end of the week, but the case, which essentially revolves around the question of whether the president has the power to arbitrarily change the country's border policies regardless of the damage it may cause, appears to be headed to the Supreme Court.
This is the first of what will surely be a number of critical confrontations between the Trump administration and the other branches of government. A lot of damage will be done by this president. But the range of opposing forces taking shape shows signs of being effective. Hundreds of thousands of people have already pledged support for a scientists' march on Washington on April 22, Earth Day. More demonstrations are likely to materialize.
The streets and public spaces of the country's cities are where protesters are most seen and heard. Mayors, and in many cases governors, seem to be telling their citizens, in a way rarely, if ever, seen in our recent history, that the public spaces are theirs. It appears to be a potent alliance. At least for now.          
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 14, 2017, 01:28:41 PM
The nutters are very notable by their absence at the minute . . .

Are we still to keep giving Trump a chance?? Do we stop at the 9th or 10th??

If the Supreme Court turn down the Muslim ban it will be open season on him!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2017, 01:55:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2017, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/13/trump-ran-a-campaign-based-on-intelligence-security-thats-not-how-hes-governing/

But...but... emails!


You missed a piece or 2..."but the deletion of the 36000 emails that were under congressional subpoena and the forensic wiping of a private server"....fixed it for you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2017, 02:03:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 14, 2017, 01:28:41 PM
The butters are very notable by their absence at the minute . . .

Are we still to keep giving Trump a chance?? Do we stop at the 9th or 10th??

If the Supreme Court turn down the Muslim ban it will be open season on him!!

If Flynn broke the law or set protocol he should be fired....end of.

Trump ran on a "drain the swamp" platform and he needs to put his money where his mouth is.

This rap on the knuckles may be good in the long term. I'm not at all surprised that a political outsider has had several mid-steps

And actually Pence is looking very good out of all this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 14, 2017, 02:09:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 14, 2017, 01:28:41 PM
The butters are very notable by their absence at the minute . . .

Are we still to keep giving Trump a chance?? Do we stop at the 9th or 10th??

If the Supreme Court turn down the Muslim ban it will be open season on him!!

A muslim ban would mean that no muslim people can enter the USA. Can you confirm this is the case?
Alternative facts eh? The hysteria continues from liberals.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 14, 2017, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2017, 01:55:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2017, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/13/trump-ran-a-campaign-based-on-intelligence-security-thats-not-how-hes-governing/

But...but... emails!


You missed a piece or 2..."but the deletion of the 36000 emails that were under congressional subpoena and the forensic wiping of a private server"....fixed it for you

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/02/13/nuclear-football-photo-taken-at-trumps-golf-resort-puts-the-pentagon-in-an-awkward-position/?utm_term=.ebd555a96d52

Emails kind of pales in comparison, doesn't it? Or what about the fact that a lot of Trump's staff are maintaining private servers? Or that they were discussing how they react to a missile launch by North Korea in a public restaurant? And reading classified documents in that public area, being lit by mobile phone torches, all of which were hackable to not only see broadcast images but audio?

But, but....emails

Keep it up Whitey, wave when you get to the centre of the earth.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 02:24:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2017, 02:03:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 14, 2017, 01:28:41 PM
The butters are very notable by their absence at the minute . . .

Are we still to keep giving Trump a chance?? Do we stop at the 9th or 10th??

If the Supreme Court turn down the Muslim ban it will be open season on him!!

If Flynn broke the law or set protocol he should be fired....end of.

Trump ran on a "drain the swamp" platform and he needs to put his money where his mouth is.

This rap on the knuckles may be good in the long term. I'm not at all surprised that a political outsider has had several mid-steps

His mouth is fellating Goldman Sachs which is where his money is.
Draining the swamp by appointing the Goldman crocodiles is taking the piss.

Trump is a front for a 1% takeover.
All the conservatives who voted for him will be shafted. No change without representation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2017, 02:56:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 14, 2017, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2017, 01:55:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2017, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/13/trump-ran-a-campaign-based-on-intelligence-security-thats-not-how-hes-governing/

But...but... emails!


You missed a piece or 2..."but the deletion of the 36000 emails that were under congressional subpoena and the forensic wiping of a private server"....fixed it for you

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/02/13/nuclear-football-photo-taken-at-trumps-golf-resort-puts-the-pentagon-in-an-awkward-position/?utm_term=.ebd555a96d52

Emails kind of pales in comparison, doesn't it? Or what about the fact that a lot of Trump's staff are maintaining private servers? Or that they were discussing how they react to a missile launch by North Korea in a public restaurant? And reading classified documents in that public area, being lit by mobile phone torches, all of which were hackable to not only see broadcast images but audio?

But, but....emails

Keep it up Whitey, wave when you get to the centre of the earth.

I don't know what was in the 36000 PERMANENTLY  DELETED emails, but it must have been pretty darn bad to risk her candidacy over.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 14, 2017, 06:12:14 PM
Oh yeah, she's definitely worse than Trump. 100 times. Listen to this guy tell it, especially the bit at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otmZBNC9giw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 08:12:32 PM
Trump lied his way through the election campaign. He led ignorant voters on and the anger when they realise they have been taken for a ride will sink the GOP. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2017, 09:13:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 14, 2017, 02:09:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 14, 2017, 01:28:41 PM
The butters are very notable by their absence at the minute . . .

Are we still to keep giving Trump a chance?? Do we stop at the 9th or 10th??

If the Supreme Court turn down the Muslim ban it will be open season on him!!

A muslim ban would mean that no muslim people can enter the USA. Can you confirm this is the case?
Alternative facts eh? The hysteria continues from liberals.

Care to comment on the departure of Moscow Mike? Got anything to say for yourself, you conservative?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 14, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
Listen to this character (http://theweek.com/speedreads/679824/watch-all-stephen-millers-most-combative-sunday-interview-moments-less-than-2-minutes). That's the chief policy advisor. Listen to what he says about judges. And how he says it. The fact that he looks like Goebbels is just a chilling coincidence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 14, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
Listen to this character (http://theweek.com/speedreads/679824/watch-all-stephen-millers-most-combative-sunday-interview-moments-less-than-2-minutes). That's the chief policy advisor. Listen to what he says about judges. And how he says it. The fact that he looks like Goebbels is just a chilling coincidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHusZDjesr4

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-american-politics-went-insane/485570/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 14, 2017, 10:27:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2017, 09:13:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 14, 2017, 02:09:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 14, 2017, 01:28:41 PM
The butters are very notable by their absence at the minute . . .

Are we still to keep giving Trump a chance?? Do we stop at the 9th or 10th??

If the Supreme Court turn down the Muslim ban it will be open season on him!!

A muslim ban would mean that no muslim people can enter the USA. Can you confirm this is the case?
Alternative facts eh? The hysteria continues from liberals.

Care to comment on the departure of Moscow Mike? Got anything to say for yourself, you conservative?

Smacks of bitterness from democrats who continue to blame Russia for Hillary losing. Honestly, such a shower of whining bitches.
If only they had put the same effort into finding the kenyan lads real birth cert.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:28:07 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/no-one-at-the-helm-of-the-ship-of-state/516591
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:39:59 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/02/14/heres-how-to-save-the-failing-trump-presidency
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2017, 11:28:35 PM
What have you got to say about Moscow Mike, Foxy? You don't think that having a Russian agent in the White House is a bit of a security risk or a sign of bad judgment on the President's part?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2017, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:39:59 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/02/14/heres-how-to-save-the-failing-trump-presidency

"The other scenario? Trump continues pitting staffers against one another, allows Bannon to muck around in foreign policy, hires a Flynn 2.0 at NSC, perpetuates the impression that he and his staff are allergic to reality — and becomes a spectacularly failed president."

Sounds like the more likely scenario to me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2017, 11:37:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2017, 01:55:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2017, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/13/trump-ran-a-campaign-based-on-intelligence-security-thats-not-how-hes-governing/

But...but... emails!


You missed a piece or 2..."but the deletion of the 36000 emails that were under congressional subpoena and the forensic wiping of a private server"....fixed it for you

So Hillary's failures DOES excuse Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2017, 11:45:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2017, 02:03:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 14, 2017, 01:28:41 PM
The butters are very notable by their absence at the minute . . .

Are we still to keep giving Trump a chance?? Do we stop at the 9th or 10th??

If the Supreme Court turn down the Muslim ban it will be open season on him!!

If Flynn broke the law or set protocol he should be fired....end of.

Trump ran on a "drain the swamp" platform and he needs to put his money where his mouth is.

This rap on the knuckles may be good in the long term. I'm not at all surprised that a political outsider has had several mid-steps

And actually Pence is looking very good out of all this

Pence is looking very good?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 14, 2017, 11:55:37 PM
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/02/14/michael-flynn-resigns-after-tendering-resignation-to-vladimir-putin/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 15, 2017, 12:18:02 AM
Stephen Miller (http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8888299)
Joseph Goebbels (http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8888292)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 14, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
Listen to this character (http://theweek.com/speedreads/679824/watch-all-stephen-millers-most-combative-sunday-interview-moments-less-than-2-minutes). That's the chief policy advisor. Listen to what he says about judges. And how he says it. The fact that he looks like Goebbels is just a chilling coincidence.

Enough with the Nazi references, just stop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 15, 2017, 12:33:17 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 14, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
Listen to this character (http://theweek.com/speedreads/679824/watch-all-stephen-millers-most-combative-sunday-interview-moments-less-than-2-minutes). That's the chief policy advisor. Listen to what he says about judges. And how he says it. The fact that he looks like Goebbels is just a chilling coincidence.

Enough with the Nazi references, just stop.

Just give him a chance stew!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2017, 12:45:25 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2017, 11:28:35 PM
What have you got to say about Moscow Mike, Foxy? You don't think that having a Russian agent in the White House is a bit of a security risk or a sign of bad judgment on the President's part?

Third one to get the road from the Trump campaign/administration after stories came out about dubious connections to Russia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2017, 01:13:53 AM
Rand Paul doesn't seem to enthused about investigating  Flynn. Apparently investigating fellow Republicans would get in the way of stuff like repealing Obamacare. So I guess investigations into possible malfeasance are only worth pursuing for political reasons. Wonder what his attitude was to the umpteen Benghazi investigations?

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/14/rand-paul-says-investigating-flynn-would-be-excessive-and-makes-no-sense/ (http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/14/rand-paul-says-investigating-flynn-would-be-excessive-and-makes-no-sense/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 15, 2017, 03:08:00 AM
Now the New York Times reveals the Trumpski campaign were collaborating with Russian intelligence!

NYeT!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/russia-intelligence-communications-trump.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4rBnYjVMAAtDgo.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 05:40:25 AM
Manafort was dumped in August or Sept partly because of Russia. Trump made a lot of enemies over the judges and DC is in backstabbing mode. The 1930s were full.of failed political fantasy projects as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 08:18:37 AM
Why would the US Gov be so close to Russia? It is a poor country. Russia wants sanctions lifted . And the US?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2017, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 08:18:37 AM
Why would the US Gov be so close to Russia? It is a poor country. Russia wants sanctions lifted . And the US?

Trump is a fascist to many on here yet you have him close to Putin, hmm.  ::)

Maybe he is a communist, that would make him..............
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 15, 2017, 08:58:18 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 08:18:37 AM
Why would the US Gov be so close to Russia? It is a poor country. Russia wants sanctions lifted . And the US?

Trump is a fascist to many on here yet you have him close to Putin, hmm.  ::)

Maybe he is a communist, that would make him..............

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-hitler-stalin-pact

You'll note that both leaders, communist and Nazi, are referred to as "dictators".

You are scarily uninformed for a lad who posts as much as you do about politics. Fascism takes many forms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 15, 2017, 09:32:42 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 14, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
Listen to this character (http://theweek.com/speedreads/679824/watch-all-stephen-millers-most-combative-sunday-interview-moments-less-than-2-minutes). That's the chief policy advisor. Listen to what he says about judges. And how he says it. The fact that he looks like Goebbels is just a chilling coincidence.

Enough with the Nazi references, just stop.


Uncomfortable, isn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 15, 2017, 09:34:41 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 08:18:37 AM
Why would the US Gov be so close to Russia? It is a poor country. Russia wants sanctions lifted . And the US?

Trump is a fascist to many on here yet you have him close to Putin, hmm.  ::)

Maybe he is a communist, that would make him..............

You think Putin is a communist? The current Russian dictatorship looks very little like communism and a whole lot like what was once called National Socialism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 10:21:40 AM
The Russians must have info on Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2017, 11:37:09 AM
Serious inuendo in WSJ today.

How does President Pence sound?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 15, 2017, 11:57:25 AM
How about two impeachments in one term? Apparently Russian contacts continued throughout 2016 (and 2017, unfortunately for Flynn) and Pence would want to be a skilled operator to distance himself from that, given how central he was to the campaign.

I personally don't like Pence, hate his stance on social issues, but I think he is on the right side of the Russian issue - but if it comes out that there was something going on that he disapproved of, but let happen, then he is a lame duck straight away. He may not have had a clue at all, might have been just as bewildered as most everyone else as to why Donald was so pro-Russia, but still gets tarred with it anyway.

If this thing does go down, as quickly and spectacularly as it might (for a rough time frame, lets say impeachment proceedings initiated before the midterms) then no one in that administration is coming out of it well.

I thought Donald would struggle to last a full term, but this really is new territory that the US is in, there has never been this kind of pace to the political cycle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on February 15, 2017, 12:21:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 10:21:40 AM
The Russians must have info on Trump

I would assume that is a given at this stage - no?

Amazing that after all the bluster and the people of America speaking up for themselves and sticking two fingers up to the establishment it is those pesky Russkies who hold the key to who will be president
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 15, 2017, 12:26:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2017, 11:37:09 AM
Serious inuendo in WSJ today.

How does President Pence sound?
Does Pence know what day it is?

Does he even know what week it is?

He doesn't seem to know much, or at least they aren't telling him.

He's been seriously undermined.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 15, 2017, 01:47:57 PM
It's brilliant . . . yeah blame the leaks Donnie not the fact that you're flailing around in the dark!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 02:00:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2017, 01:13:53 AM
Rand Paul doesn't seem to enthused about investigating  Flynn. Apparently investigating fellow Republicans would get in the way of stuff like repealing Obamacare. So I guess investigations into possible malfeasance are only worth pursuing for political reasons. Wonder what his attitude was to the umpteen Benghazi investigations?

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/14/rand-paul-says-investigating-flynn-would-be-excessive-and-makes-no-sense/ (http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/14/rand-paul-says-investigating-flynn-would-be-excessive-and-makes-no-sense/)
The Republicans want to implement the Koch programme of Government in a bathtub. By the time they realise Trump.is radioactive it will be too late. They are like an octogenarian who has just married a criminal  pneumatic blonde. Can't see the malevolence. Just the tits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 02:17:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 15, 2017, 11:57:25 AM
How about two impeachments in one term? Apparently Russian contacts continued throughout 2016 (and 2017, unfortunately for Flynn) and Pence would want to be a skilled operator to distance himself from that, given how central he was to the campaign.

I personally don't like Pence, hate his stance on social issues, but I think he is on the right side of the Russian issue - but if it comes out that there was something going on that he disapproved of, but let happen, then he is a lame duck straight away. He may not have had a clue at all, might have been just as bewildered as most everyone else as to why Donald was so pro-Russia, but still gets tarred with it anyway.

If this thing does go down, as quickly and spectacularly as it might (for a rough time frame, lets say impeachment proceedings initiated before the midterms) then no one in that administration is coming out of it well.

I thought Donald would struggle to last a full term, but this really is new territory that the US is in, there has never been this kind of pace to the political cycle.
Not in our experience of watching stuff. The late 60s/early 70s were messy. 1890s were too. It goes with savage inequality and/or system breakdown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2017, 05:02:40 PM
Donald is only looking out for all of us everywhere.
A 62-year-old carer was beaten and stamped to death in London's Hyde Park by an illegal immigrant who had just been released on bail for shoplifting, a court heard.

Homeless Hani Khalaf, 22, allegedly kicked, punched and stamped on Jairo Medina, from Chelsea, west London, near Speakers' Corner on the evening of August 11 last year, leaving him for dead.

He pocketed the victim's cash and stole his mobile phone which he tried to sell on hours later, the Old Bailey was told.

Mr Medina's bruised and broken body was discovered early on August 12 by a groundsman on his way to work.

Prosecutor Oliver Glasgow QC said: "Jairo Medina had sustained severe injuries, with numerous bruises and broken bones all over his body.




hydeparkincident1208b.jpg© Provided by Independent Print Limited hydeparkincident1208b.jpg 

Police presence: Cordons were set up in Hyde Park (Alex Lentati)


"His nose, his eye sockets, the bones in his voice box and two of his ribs had all been fractured.

"The injuries to his head and face were devastating and had caused traumatic brain injury.

"He died as a result of the blunt force injuries that he had suffered when he had been punched, kicked and stamped on - in short, he had been beaten to death."

Mr Glasgow told jurors that the motive was greed as the victim's belongings were strewn around the park, his rucksack searched and his wallet emptied.

The defendant changed his clothes and took the victim's mobile phone to a shop in Kilburn High Road, where he tried to sell it, the court heard.

Investigators found CCTV of Khalaf with his victim at 11pm on the night of the killing at a supermarket near Marble Arch although Mr Glasgow said there was no obvious link between them.

Maybe that is the sort of thing Trump did not want his countrymen subjected to!





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 15, 2017, 05:21:59 PM
If nobody drove cars, nobody would die in car crashes!

Ban cars!

Eh, Stew?  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2017, 05:43:44 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 05:02:40 PM
Donald is only looking out for all of us everywhere.
A 62-year-old carer was beaten and stamped to death in London's Hyde Park by an illegal immigrant who had just been released on bail for shoplifting, a court heard.

Homeless Hani Khalaf, 22, allegedly kicked, punched and stamped on Jairo Medina, from Chelsea, west London, near Speakers' Corner on the evening of August 11 last year, leaving him for dead.

He pocketed the victim's cash and stole his mobile phone which he tried to sell on hours later, the Old Bailey was told.

Mr Medina's bruised and broken body was discovered early on August 12 by a groundsman on his way to work.

Prosecutor Oliver Glasgow QC said: "Jairo Medina had sustained severe injuries, with numerous bruises and broken bones all over his body.




hydeparkincident1208b.jpg© Provided by Independent Print Limited hydeparkincident1208b.jpg 

Police presence: Cordons were set up in Hyde Park (Alex Lentati)


"His nose, his eye sockets, the bones in his voice box and two of his ribs had all been fractured.

"The injuries to his head and face were devastating and had caused traumatic brain injury.

"He died as a result of the blunt force injuries that he had suffered when he had been punched, kicked and stamped on - in short, he had been beaten to death."

Mr Glasgow told jurors that the motive was greed as the victim's belongings were strewn around the park, his rucksack searched and his wallet emptied.

The defendant changed his clothes and took the victim's mobile phone to a shop in Kilburn High Road, where he tried to sell it, the court heard.

Investigators found CCTV of Khalaf with his victim at 11pm on the night of the killing at a supermarket near Marble Arch although Mr Glasgow said there was no obvious link between them.

Maybe that is the sort of thing Trump did not want his countrymen subjected to!

By that logic, why is he not pushing alcohol prohibition? How many people get their heads kicked in or worse as a result of drink? Or how about guns? Do we need to post those statistics again about gun deaths, lightning deaths, lawnmower deaths and terrorist deaths?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on February 15, 2017, 05:56:35 PM
Jesus stew your off your rocker.  You said before the elections he was a terrible.candidate, you wouldn't vote for him etc etc etc. And now your defending him at every turn.  Open your eyes, this is unprecedented.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 06:28:20 PM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/rule-by-decree

Even when legislation is there for the passing, he lacks the focus, interest or skills to get it passed. He is low attention and low energy. Hastily drawn up executive orders, some inconsequential and some unconstitutional, are likely to be the order of the day, only with the Oval Office photo ops with toadies and CEO supplicants thrown in. In other words, it is not a poor man's but a lazy man's authoritarianism. He is by nature a strongman but lacks the focus or energy to get what he wants in a system which, at least for now, does not allow it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 15, 2017, 06:36:31 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 05:02:40 PM
Donald is only looking out for all of us everywhere.
A 62-year-old carer was beaten and stamped to death in London's Hyde Park by an illegal immigrant who had just been released on bail for shoplifting, a court heard.

Homeless Hani Khalaf, 22, allegedly kicked, punched and stamped on Jairo Medina, from Chelsea, west London, near Speakers' Corner on the evening of August 11 last year, leaving him for dead.

He pocketed the victim's cash and stole his mobile phone which he tried to sell on hours later, the Old Bailey was told.

Mr Medina's bruised and broken body was discovered early on August 12 by a groundsman on his way to work.

Prosecutor Oliver Glasgow QC said: "Jairo Medina had sustained severe injuries, with numerous bruises and broken bones all over his body.




hydeparkincident1208b.jpg© Provided by Independent Print Limited hydeparkincident1208b.jpg 

Police presence: Cordons were set up in Hyde Park (Alex Lentati)


"His nose, his eye sockets, the bones in his voice box and two of his ribs had all been fractured.

"The injuries to his head and face were devastating and had caused traumatic brain injury.

"He died as a result of the blunt force injuries that he had suffered when he had been punched, kicked and stamped on - in short, he had been beaten to death."

Mr Glasgow told jurors that the motive was greed as the victim's belongings were strewn around the park, his rucksack searched and his wallet emptied.

The defendant changed his clothes and took the victim's mobile phone to a shop in Kilburn High Road, where he tried to sell it, the court heard.

Investigators found CCTV of Khalaf with his victim at 11pm on the night of the killing at a supermarket near Marble Arch although Mr Glasgow said there was no obvious link between them.

Maybe that is the sort of thing Trump did not want his countrymen subjected to!
Two men from Meath are up in Court today charged with killing a man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 15, 2017, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 15, 2017, 05:56:35 PM
Jesus stew your off your rocker.  You said before the elections he was a terrible.candidate, you wouldn't vote for him etc etc etc. And now your defending him at every turn.  Open your eyes, this is unprecedented.
Stoopid Stoo's Stockholm Syndrome
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omagh_gael on February 15, 2017, 07:09:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2017, 11:37:09 AM
Serious inuendo in WSJ today.

How does President Pence sound?

Link?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Crete Boom on February 15, 2017, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 05:02:40 PM
Donald is only looking out for all of us everywhere.
A 62-year-old carer was beaten and stamped to death in London's Hyde Park by an illegal immigrant who had just been released on bail for shoplifting, a court heard.

Homeless Hani Khalaf, 22, allegedly kicked, punched and stamped on Jairo Medina, from Chelsea, west London, near Speakers' Corner on the evening of August 11 last year, leaving him for dead.

He pocketed the victim's cash and stole his mobile phone which he tried to sell on hours later, the Old Bailey was told.

Mr Medina's bruised and broken body was discovered early on August 12 by a groundsman on his way to work.

Prosecutor Oliver Glasgow QC said: "Jairo Medina had sustained severe injuries, with numerous bruises and broken bones all over his body.




hydeparkincident1208b.jpg© Provided by Independent Print Limited hydeparkincident1208b.jpg 

Police presence: Cordons were set up in Hyde Park (Alex Lentati)


"His nose, his eye sockets, the bones in his voice box and two of his ribs had all been fractured.

"The injuries to his head and face were devastating and had caused traumatic brain injury.

"He died as a result of the blunt force injuries that he had suffered when he had been punched, kicked and stamped on - in short, he had been beaten to death."

Mr Glasgow told jurors that the motive was greed as the victim's belongings were strewn around the park, his rucksack searched and his wallet emptied.

The defendant changed his clothes and took the victim's mobile phone to a shop in Kilburn High Road, where he tried to sell it, the court heard.

Investigators found CCTV of Khalaf with his victim at 11pm on the night of the killing at a supermarket near Marble Arch although Mr Glasgow said there was no obvious link between them.

Maybe that is the sort of thing Trump did not want his countrymen subjected to!

Sure you are an immigrant from an area the conservative right would see as a place with a history of breeding terrorists , are you volunteering your visa/ passport to go home??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 15, 2017, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 15, 2017, 09:32:42 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 14, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
Listen to this character (http://theweek.com/speedreads/679824/watch-all-stephen-millers-most-combative-sunday-interview-moments-less-than-2-minutes). That's the chief policy advisor. Listen to what he says about judges. And how he says it. The fact that he looks like Goebbels is just a chilling coincidence.

Enough with the Nazi references, just stop.


Uncomfortable, isn't it?

Inaccurate more like it. The parallels that liberals are trying to draw are disgraceful and disingenuous.
The constant brainwashing by MSM about Hitler seems to have stuck in the tiny minds of the mouth-breathing Obama/Hillary fans and now they are spewing it as fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 15, 2017, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 15, 2017, 09:32:42 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 14, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
Listen to this character (http://theweek.com/speedreads/679824/watch-all-stephen-millers-most-combative-sunday-interview-moments-less-than-2-minutes). That's the chief policy advisor. Listen to what he says about judges. And how he says it. The fact that he looks like Goebbels is just a chilling coincidence.

Enough with the Nazi references, just stop.


Uncomfortable, isn't it?

Inaccurate more like it. The parallels that liberals are trying to draw are disgraceful and disingenuous.
The constant brainwashing by MSM about Hitler seems to have stuck in the tiny minds of the mouth-breathing Obama/Hillary fans and now they are spewing it as fact.
Stephen Miller is real
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 15, 2017, 08:18:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 15, 2017, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 15, 2017, 09:32:42 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 14, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
Listen to this character (http://theweek.com/speedreads/679824/watch-all-stephen-millers-most-combative-sunday-interview-moments-less-than-2-minutes). That's the chief policy advisor. Listen to what he says about judges. And how he says it. The fact that he looks like Goebbels is just a chilling coincidence.

Enough with the Nazi references, just stop.


Uncomfortable, isn't it?

Inaccurate more like it. The parallels that liberals are trying to draw are disgraceful and disingenuous.
The constant brainwashing by MSM about Hitler seems to have stuck in the tiny minds of the mouth-breathing Obama/Hillary fans and now they are spewing it as fact.

What's Russian for "we told you so"???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 15, 2017, 08:34:26 PM
I'll agree that a Hitler-Trump comparison does not have a 1 to 1 equivalency, but there are enough similarities to make an attentive person concerned.

Trump's scapegoating of foreigners and foreign countries as causes for the country's economic, Geo-political, and industrial decline is right out of Hitler's playbook.

So, too, is his demonizing of the media.  He repeatedly accuses respected media outlets of creating "fake" news and of being dishonest, while he and his surrogates lie compulsively and consistently distort the news.  He has already tarred as dishonest the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, NBC and ABC, while lauding Fox and Breitbart, which are not news outlets but propaganda outlets.  The demonizing of the media is the first step on the path to censorship, and we see already a move in that direction to gag the press.  For example, Trump has expressed a will to expand libel laws in an effort to intimidate and gag the press.  Remember, too, that a popular chant at his rallies was the German/Nazi word "lugenpresse", or lying press. Additionally, in a decidedly Putinesque move, at press conferences, e.g. today's with Netanyahu, he calls on safe right wing outlets who will not ask him hard questions about topics such as Flynn's connection to Russia.

Trump does not have the organized paramilitary backing of Hitler, an organization that brought about Kristallnacht, but he very definitely has the support of an array of white supremacist groups such as the KKK, which pose a real threat to journalists (death threats) and which have already become emboldened to organize, recruit and march.  Additionally, attacks on mosques and synagogues have increased substantially since Trump's rise to power.  Consider also Trump's unwillingness to dissociate himself from these groups.  Also, the chanting at his rallies was very reminiscent of Hitlerian gatherings.

Pay attention too to the potential imposition of emergency laws, our very own Special Powers Act. All it will take is the threat of terror.  He has already talked about sending in the Feds to places such as Chicago (I.e. imposition of martial law).

And don't scoff at the idea of a Trumpian Goebbels. That's exactly what Steve Brannon is, whose lies are broadcast ably by Sean Spicer, Kellyanne Conway, and Miller.

Trump is not like Hitler in his Final Solution period, but there is enough of a similarity to him in his early days to cause concern.  Just the projectile torrent of lies and the ever-increasing difficulty to unearth the truth ought to be alarming to Democrats and Republicans alike.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 15, 2017, 09:17:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2017, 08:34:26 PM
I'll agree that a Hitler-Trump comparison does not have a 1 to 1 equivalency, but there are enough similarities to make an attentive person concerned.

Trump's scapegoating of foreigners and foreign countries as causes for the country's economic, Geo-political, and industrial decline is right out of Hitler's playbook.

So, too, is his demonizing of the media.  He repeatedly accuses respected media outlets of creating "fake" news and of being dishonest, while he and his surrogates lie compulsively and consistently distort the news.  He has already tarred as dishonest the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, NBC and ABC, while lauding Fox and Breitbart, which are not news outlets but propaganda outlets.  The demonizing of the media is the first step on the path to censorship, and we see already a move in that direction to gag the press.  For example, Trump has expressed a will to expand libel laws in an effort to intimidate and gag the press.  Remember, too, that a popular chant at his rallies was the German/Nazi word "lugenpresse", or lying press. Additionally, in a decidedly Putinesque move, at press conferences, e.g. today's with Netanyahu, he calls on safe right wing outlets who will not ask him hard questions about topics such as Flynn's connection to Russia.

Trump does not have the organized paramilitary backing of Hitler, an organization that brought about Kristallnacht, but he very definitely has the support of an array of white supremacist groups such as the KKK, which pose a real threat to journalists (death threats) and which have already become emboldened to organize, recruit and march.  Additionally, attacks on mosques and synagogues have increased substantially since Trump's rise to power.  Consider also Trump's unwillingness to dissociate himself from these groups.  Also, the chanting at his rallies was very reminiscent of Hitlerian gatherings.

Pay attention too to the potential imposition of emergency laws, our very own Special Powers Act. All it will take is the threat of terror.  He has already talked about sending in the Feds to places such as Chicago (I.e. imposition of martial law).

And don't scoff at the idea of a Trumpian Goebbels. That's exactly what Steve Brannon is, whose lies are broadcast ably by Sean Spicer, Kellyanne Conway, and Miller.

Trump is not like Hitler in his Final Solution period, but there is enough of a similarity to him in his early days to cause concern.  Just the projectile torrent of lies and the ever-increasing difficulty to unearth the truth ought to be alarming to Democrats and Republicans alike.

You mean like chanting "Yes we can" ?

(http://itmakessenseblog.com/files/2012/05/Obama-and-Hitler.jpg)

It's fairly easy to try make the shoe fit if you really want it to, which in this case the liberals are doing. Obama treated Fox News as the enemy media when he was in power. This is nothing new of how politics work.

Martial law might be the only thing to clean up Chicago. Or if you do nothing then you get accused of not giving a damn. The police are afraid to tackle it due to accusations of heavy-handed approach and racism. How do you suggest in stopping the problem? Ignore it like Obama?

God help you if you think the likes of CNN are unbiased.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 09:30:25 PM
Foxy

What is your view of Miller?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHusZDjesr4

Was the 9th court judges' decision a usurpation of power ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 15, 2017, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 15, 2017, 09:17:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2017, 08:34:26 PM
I'll agree that a Hitler-Trump comparison does not have a 1 to 1 equivalency, but there are enough similarities to make an attentive person concerned.

Trump's scapegoating of foreigners and foreign countries as causes for the country's economic, Geo-political, and industrial decline is right out of Hitler's playbook.

So, too, is his demonizing of the media.  He repeatedly accuses respected media outlets of creating "fake" news and of being dishonest, while he and his surrogates lie compulsively and consistently distort the news.  He has already tarred as dishonest the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, NBC and ABC, while lauding Fox and Breitbart, which are not news outlets but propaganda outlets.  The demonizing of the media is the first step on the path to censorship, and we see already a move in that direction to gag the press.  For example, Trump has expressed a will to expand libel laws in an effort to intimidate and gag the press.  Remember, too, that a popular chant at his rallies was the German/Nazi word "lugenpresse", or lying press. Additionally, in a decidedly Putinesque move, at press conferences, e.g. today's with Netanyahu, he calls on safe right wing outlets who will not ask him hard questions about topics such as Flynn's connection to Russia.

Trump does not have the organized paramilitary backing of Hitler, an organization that brought about Kristallnacht, but he very definitely has the support of an array of white supremacist groups such as the KKK, which pose a real threat to journalists (death threats) and which have already become emboldened to organize, recruit and march.  Additionally, attacks on mosques and synagogues have increased substantially since Trump's rise to power.  Consider also Trump's unwillingness to dissociate himself from these groups.  Also, the chanting at his rallies was very reminiscent of Hitlerian gatherings.

Pay attention too to the potential imposition of emergency laws, our very own Special Powers Act. All it will take is the threat of terror.  He has already talked about sending in the Feds to places such as Chicago (I.e. imposition of martial law).

And don't scoff at the idea of a Trumpian Goebbels. That's exactly what Steve Brannon is, whose lies are broadcast ably by Sean Spicer, Kellyanne Conway, and Miller.

Trump is not like Hitler in his Final Solution period, but there is enough of a similarity to him in his early days to cause concern.  Just the projectile torrent of lies and the ever-increasing difficulty to unearth the truth ought to be alarming to Democrats and Republicans alike.

You mean like chanting "Yes we can" ?

(http://itmakessenseblog.com/files/2012/05/Obama-and-Hitler.jpg)

It's fairly easy to try make the shoe fit if you really want it to, which in this case the liberals are doing. Obama treated Fox News as the enemy media when he was in power. This is nothing new of how politics work.

Martial law might be the only thing to clean up Chicago. Or if you do nothing then you get accused of not giving a damn. The police are afraid to tackle it due to accusations of heavy-handed approach and racism. How do you suggest in stopping the problem? Ignore it like Obama?

God help you if you think the likes of CNN are unbiased.

Foxkkkommander comparing Obama to Hitler now  ;D

Take your meds, Foxy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 15, 2017, 09:35:15 PM
So, ignore my remarks about censorship and scapegoating.

Sending in the army to an urban setting has always worked well.  Have you lived in Northern Ireland? Maybe need a move to right the social wrongs that foment the social problems.

You don't like CNN. OK, what do you think is the most reliable news source?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2017, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2017, 09:35:15 PM
So, ignore my remarks about censorship and scapegoating.

Sending in the army to an urban setting has always worked well.  Have you lived in Northern Ireland? Maybe need a move to right the social wrongs that foment the social problems.

You don't like CNN. OK, what do you think is the most reliable news source?

Good luck waiting for foxcommander to address the substance of your points!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 09:58:01 PM
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/02/donald-trump-cant-come-clean-on-russia-michael-flynn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 10:12:56 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  14 feb


Reports say our own intel agencies have corroborated parts of a dossier alleging that Russia has compromising info about @realDonaldTrump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 15, 2017, 10:30:42 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 15, 2017, 09:35:15 PM
So, ignore my remarks about censorship and scapegoating.

Sending in the army to an urban setting has always worked well.  Have you lived in Northern Ireland? Maybe need a move to right the social wrongs that foment the social problems.

You don't like CNN. OK, what do you think is the most reliable news source?

I read your comments. Don't agree with them.
I don't think there is an unbiased news source.

You certainly don't want another Northern Ireland but a more visible presence to deter. Think peacekeeping force rather than an offensive one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 15, 2017, 10:32:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 09:30:25 PM
Foxy

What is your view of Miller?


Great lad. Next!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 15, 2017, 10:46:48 PM
You don't agree that he scapegoats or that he has an ongoing battle with the press whom he calls fake news???  So, if you think all news sources are biased, where do you get your news?  Divine inspiration?

Peace-keeping force?  So, you didn't grow up during the Troubles.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2017, 11:13:20 PM
Oy! Foxcommander! What have you got to say about Moscow Mike? You don't think that having a Russian agent in the White House is a bit of a security risk or a sign of bad judgment on the President's part?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2017, 11:23:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 10:12:56 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  14 feb

Warren is the world's weirdest attack dog, she lied about her ethnicity to get into college and yet the liberals hold her up as some kind of kryptonite against big bad Donald.

I am all for Trump being impeached if they have the evidence against him.

That's the difference between us, you lot creamed yourselves over the thought of losing Clinton to a well deserved cell, if he is guilty I would have Trump impeached.
Reports say our own intel agencies have corroborated parts of a dossier alleging that Russia has compromising info about @realDonaldTrump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2017, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 09:30:25 PM
Foxy

What is your view of Miller?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHusZDjesr4

Was the 9th court judges' decision a usurpation of power ?

MSNBC lolololol, just when I thought you could sink no further.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2017, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 11:26:36 PM

MSNBC lolololol, just when I thought you could sink no further.

How low would that be? Fox News?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 12:45:10 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 11:23:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 10:12:56 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  14 feb

Warren is the world's weirdest attack dog, she lied about her ethnicity to get into college and yet the liberals hold her up as some kind of kryptonite against big bad Donald.

I am all for Trump being impeached if they have the evidence against him.

That's the difference between us, you lot creamed yourselves over the thought of losing Clinton to a well deserved cell, if he is guilty I would have Trump impeached.
Reports say our own intel agencies have corroborated parts of a dossier alleging that Russia has compromising info about @realDonaldTrump.

Sorry, but Warren's family oral tradition that she's part native lacking documentary support (as such stories often do) doesn't get Trump off the hook about what she has to say.

And especially not from a party home to all kinds of people with sketchy history when it comes to racial and other issues. You and Trump can shout "Pocahontas" all you want. If its a character battle you're looking for, Warren beats Trump every day of the week (and Bannon and Sessions and all the rest of them too).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 12:54:07 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 09:30:25 PM
Foxy

What is your view of Miller?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHusZDjesr4

Was the 9th court judges' decision a usurpation of power ?

MSNBC lolololol, just when I thought you could sink no further.

Scarborough is a Republican. An important part of the Gingrich 90s revolution. What part of the analysis do you disagree with?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 16, 2017, 02:12:03 AM
That liberal media bastion, the Wall Street Journal, reporting that US intelligence are keeping sensitive information from Trump, for fear he'll leak it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/spies-keep-intelligence-from-donald-trump-1487209351 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/spies-keep-intelligence-from-donald-trump-1487209351)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 05:06:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 12:54:07 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 09:30:25 PM
Foxy

What is your view of Miller?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHusZDjesr4

Was the 9th court judges' decision a usurpation of power ?
Scarborough

MSNBC lolololol, just when I thought you could sink no further.

Scarborough is a Republican. An important part of the Gingrich 90s revolution. What part of the analysis do you disagree with?
Scarborough is very interesting when he talks about Judicial Review and presidential history. The system was designed to protect voters from venal autocrats.
The GOP has been parasitised. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 09:17:53 AM

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014/01/09/can-he-save-gop-itself/

Garry Wills
January 9, 2014 Issue
The Right Path: From Ike to Reagan, How Republicans Once Mastered Politics—and Can Again 
by Joe Scarborough
Random House, 194 pp., $26.00


The current Thing to Say about Republicans is that they are caught in a civil war—the Tea Party against the Establishment, "wacko birds" against "the adults," fringe against mainstream. One of the most clamorous bearers of this message, on his TV show and in various other media, is Joe Scarborough. He has denounced Republicans for putting up outré candidates (like Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Christine O'Donnell, and Sharron Angle) to indulge their resentments, not to win elections. He has, in turn, been called a RINO (Republican in Name Only) by the objects of his criticism. He protests that he is the true Republican, principled and pragmatic like the heroes of his new book.

There have, by his estimate, been two miracles of Republican moderation—Dwight Eisenhower and Ronald Reagan. They set the standard nationally, though Scarborough, forced to look for some model on a more modest scale, can find one in "the one brief shining moment" that was Camelot-on-Pensacola-Bay, his own three and a half terms as representative from Florida's First District:
By carrying a 95 percent conservative rating while making strategic alliances with Democratic allies, I boxed out the competition. I also assured myself a place in Congress for the rest of my life if that had been my goal. Because I focused around the clock on building broad coalitions that would also do the nation good.... I constantly studied the political realities around me and asked what I could do to reach out to those who would not naturally support me. If there were something I could do that would help my constituents, be good for the district, and be consistent with my conservative beliefs, I focused like a laser on getting the job done. And I always tried to remain pragmatic, able to adapt to changing conditions.
This book, then, tells the Republicans how to cure their troubles. Simply go and be Ike and Ron—and Joe.
To drive home this recommendation, the author gives us his theory of everything that has happened in American politics since 1945. (He dates all recent history, for reasons to be gone into, from "the sellout at Yalta.") For Scarborough, the systole and diastole that give our political life its pulse are alternating extremism and pragmatism. This beat is the same for both parties. When Democrats become extreme—as when George McGovern (by Scarborough's telling) championed "acid, amnesty, and abortion"—Republicans win. When Republicans put up an extremist like Barry Goldwater, Democrats win. Through it all, the good sense of the public is vindicated—it prefers the middle to either extreme. Scarborough puts the law in an interesting way:
Whether it was Hillarycare or Obamacare, the government shutdown or the Iraq War, politicians in both parties have fed the worst instincts of their most extreme party factions and then paid for it at the voting booth.

This seems evenhanded until one notes the specifics. Clinton launched Hillarycare in his first term and still won a second term. Obama passed Obamacare in his first term and still won a second. Bush launched the Iraq War in his first term and won a second. Is that paying at the voting booth? Scarborough is not looking to history, but to his own current itches—his opposition to Obamacare and to Ted Cruz's shutdown of the government (not Gingrich's) as part of his current agenda for Republicans.
Over and over, a closer look shows how skewed is this reading of political history. The moderate is supposed to be pragmatic, to adopt what works; but over and over we see that Republican moderates would fail without their extremists. George H.W. Bush needed Lee Atwater's dirty tactics to get him into office, and he lost when he reverted to moderation by raising taxes (which Reagan also did). Bush defeated at first the forces raised against him by Pat Buchanan's "pitchforkers" in 1992—but in what worked over time, Buchanan was the pragmatic victor:

[Buchanan] revolutionized the modern Republican Party by providing the blueprint to a GOP congressional majority. Buchanan's conservative populism was especially persuasive in districts like my own where Republicans rarely won congressional races. It was persuasive because so many of his policy positions were outside a Washington Republican mainstream that all too often capitulated to big business and big government even when it was not the conservative thing to do.
That sounds like the Tea Party our author has come to rein in. And no wonder. Scarborough admits that he won his congressional seat as an enthusiastic member of the Gingrich Revolution in 1994. He was in favor of the first government shutdown before he was against the second one:
The coming Republican Revolution of 1994 mixed Buchanan populism with mainstream GOP orthodoxy. Newt Gingrich put together a winning political strategy that kept Republicans in the speaker's chair in the US House of Representatives for sixteen of the past twenty years.


But Scarborough became a moderate in time for his brief period in office, and thus could be a shining Camelot figure of the Ike-Ron sort. He deserted "Gingrich, the long-term visionary," for a more pragmatic colleague in the House, Steve Largent of Oklahoma. That kind of conversion does not disqualify Scarborough as a model, since even his favorite conservative philosopher, Bill Buckley, was against Scarborough's first great ideal, Eisenhower, before he was for his second one, Reagan (and even Reagan had been a New Deal Democrat).

Scarborough's pretense that he believes in an evenhanded oscillation of fringe and center in both parties continually breaks down. We are given two great icons of moderation on the Republican side, but not a single one on the Democratic side. When Lyndon Johnson wins, it is not because of his own moderation but because the Republicans went extreme with Goldwater. Bill Clinton won because the first President Bush wobbled between his own heartfelt goals and those of Atwater, and Clinton was reelected because Dick Morris helped him play against Gingrich's grandiosity.
There cannot be a Democratic equivalent of the Republican "icons" Ike and Ron in Scarborough's scheme. Some might want to put Franklin Roosevelt in that position, but Scarborough knows that he was just the man who set Democrats on a radical course at Yalta, and gave Republicans an enduring anti-extremism position:
For conservatives [not extremists, you notice, but Scarborough's own true conservatives], Yalta now brought together two irresistible forces: contempt for Roosevelt and the growing fear of Communism's spread. Both were potent in and of themselves. Mixed together in the story of the sellout at Yalta they fed on one another.

After five years of standing shoulder to shoulder with a Democratic president leading the fight against Adolf Hitler, Republicans suddenly had a case to make against FDR on foreign policy that was equal in weight to the domestic case....
Roosevelt was now not only the embodiment of socialism at home. He was, because of Yalta, an abettor of Communism abroad. It may have been an oversimplification of actual events, but most powerful political arguments usually are. The linkage of an expansive government at home with a weak foreign policy abroad gave the right an internally coherent political philosophy that would grow steadily in the postwar years and eventually lead to landslide victories for both Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. Liberalism's failures at Yalta, in China, and in the nuclear arms race's infancy gave Buckley and his apostles the kick-start that "movement conservatism" needed. America's political system would never be the same.
Scarborough revives the old canard that Roosevelt (and Churchill) "sold out" Eastern Europe to Stalin at the meeting of Allied leaders while World War II was still being fiercely waged. But as historian James MacGregor Burns demonstrated, "Roosevelt didn't give Stalin Eastern Europe; Stalin had taken Eastern Europe." At that point, we had nothing we could give away.

By resurrecting the Yalta myth, Scarborough concludes that there cannot be moderate Democrats, since radicalism is built into the party's DNA. No matter what its candidates do, they are the party of New Deal socialism and Yalta. When he says that Democrats have suffered from extremism, going "hard left," he means that they have been even more outrageous than their party's normal extremism—whether in the "acid, amnesty, and abortion" purportedly championed by McGovern, or in becoming even more socialist than the New Deal with Hillarycare and Obamacare.
His simplistic radical–pragmatic tick-tock of power ignores a great variety of different factors—the World War II halo around Eisenhower, the impact of JFK's assassination on the 1964 election, the effect of September 11 on Bush's second-term victory, to name only a few. And longer-term structural factors are filtered out entirely. Consider just three—race, religion, and money.
Race. Scarborough was born in the South one year before the explosive summer of 1964, which saw the passage of the Civil Rights Act, after the longest filibuster in Senate history against it by three defenders of the segregated South (Senators Robert Byrd, Richard Russell, and Strom Thurmond); the murder of the civil rights workers James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner in Philadelphia, Mississippi; Barry Goldwater's successful plea to Senator Thurmond to become an outspoken Republican; the Goldwater nominating convention, at which southern delegates renamed their convention hotel "Fort Sumter"; Goldwater's loss of all states outside his home Arizona and five that had been part of the Democrats' "Solid South."
Helped by the analysis of Kevin Phillips, Nixon four years later built his Southern Strategy on those five states, after his own wooing of Strom Thurmond. It made him president, and left a template Ronald Reagan adhered to, launching his 1980 campaign at the fairgrounds outside Philadelphia, Mississippi, the murder site of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner, criticizing the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and opposing a memorial day for Dr. King. As president, he tried to protect tax exemption for segregated colleges and vetoed a civil rights bill.
According to Scarborough's book, none of these things happened. He says the Southern Strategy is a "laughable" liberal myth. Nixon was elected not because he built on Goldwater's southern success but because he was a noble moderate until his private demons led him into the Watergate cover-up. Up till then, Scarborough says, in the combined votes of the Nixon and Wallace tickets "conservatism in the classic sense carried the day in 1968."
Really? The support for Nixon-Agnew and Wallace-Lemay was a triumph of moderation? Scarborough, born into a Thurmondized South, literally cannot see race in any part of his home region's history. Certainly not in its current efforts to exclude black and Latino voters by registration laws, identity tests, and narrowed windows for voting. These are purportedly aimed at "voter fraud," which does not exist to any significant extent. Every other explanation is admissible, but not race in the historically innocent Land of Thurmond.
Racism is not confined to the South, of course—and neither are Republican efforts to limit black and Latino voting. But the reflexive political use of race is usually found among Republicans—as in the newsletters of Ron Paul, where Holocaust deniers and Confederacy restorers found a welcome. When Rand Paul was not plagiarizing others, his books and speeches were being ghostwritten by a self-styled "Southern Avenger." Republicans do not see racism in their ranks because it has for so long been denied as to become invisible to its practitioners.

One of the original selling points for the Tea Party was that it had moved on from the obsessions of the religious right. It was about deficits, jobs, and small government, not about abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools, and creationism. But as soon as Republicans gained a majority in state legislatures, there was a flood of anti-abortion laws proposed or passed, with religious rationales or backing. Since abortion is legal, those who want to outlaw it just try to make it impossible to get, on fake grounds of "women's health" (as they exclude blacks under cover of "voter fraud").
On similarly fake grounds, Republicans use the Catholic bishops' opposition to contraception as an excuse based on "religious freedom" to oppose the Affordable Care Act. The bishops' case is phony—no one is forced to use or not use contraception by the act. But bishops say that countenancing the act offends the bishops who follow Rome in condemning it (not actual Catholics who overwhelmingly exercise their right of conscience in using contraceptives).
The defense of victimized Catholic bishops reached a comic peak when Jeb Bush (one of Scarborough's moderate Republicans) speculated that Obama closed our Vatican embassy (he didn't) as "retribution for Catholic organizations opposing Obamacare." The religious right is alive and well in all kinds of Republicans—in global warming deniers, whose attitude toward climate science resembles their denial of evolution; in voter restrictions to exclude "un-Americans"; in those who oppose gay marriage, the rights of Muslims and atheists, or the need for sex education in the schools.
Money. One bit of Scarborough's wishful thinking is that Republicans will be saved by Wall Street correcting Main Street. The rational money managers will rein in the extremists of the Tea Party. But the Tea Party's eruption in the town hall meetings of 2009 was funded by the Koch brothers' Americans for Prosperity. The right-wing laws passed by Republican state legislatures follow a plan drawn up by the millionaires-funded American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). Corporate money, spouting from the Citizens United decision of the Supreme Court, has flowed into elections for local judges, state legislatures, and "citizens'" opposition to government. There is every reason for the rich to promote measures that limit the vote, promote a defiance of science, or stigmatize "aliens."
This is not cynical opportunism on their part. They believe what Romney told them in their plush hideaway—that 47 percent of Americans are moochers who earn nothing, pay nothing, and deserve nothing. By that logic, the moochers should be kept from voting, or from getting anything the earners have acquired. Their attitude is perfectly summed up by Republican Bruce Rauner, a multimillionaire now running for Illinois governor, who issued this statement:
I've worked extremely hard and feel incredibly blessed to have earned financial success.... Capitalism is the greatest poverty-fighting machine in the history of mankind.... I can't be bought or intimidated by the special interests.
The astonishing thing is that much of the public agrees with that "too rich to be bribed" creed. The proof that we live in a plutocracy is not that the wealthy get most of the prizes in our society, but that majorities think that is how it should be. Even to criticize what the super-wealthy get is to wage "class war." That is why Democrats must shy from words as toxic as "redistribution." Rebecca Blank, a former acting secretary of commerce, could not be nominated to the Council of Economic Advisers because she voiced the truism that "a commitment to economic justice necessarily implies a commitment to the redistribution of economic resources." A new foundation set up to study unequal income found that the gap between the super-rich and everyone else has grown, but that support for the belief that "government should reduce income differences between the rich and poor" has gone down even as the gap widened. So the supposedly "Third Way" think tank warns Democrats that any populist talk of raising taxes on the rich will doom them. Wealth is untouchable, is sacred, for reasons the pope just diagnosed:
While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation.... In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which becomes the only rule.
The opposition to any tax raise on the rich explains why America has the greatest disparity of income between the top few and the rest of society. That disparity is actually greater in four other countries (United Kingdom, Greece, Poland, Ireland) when income is measured before taxes. It is only after taxes that America surges to the lead among all nations. Does it matter that America leads in this disparity? Jill Lepore suggests one way that it does, when she discusses our deadlocked Congress:
Polarization in Congress maps onto one measure better than any other: economic inequality. The smaller the gap between rich and poor, the more moderate our politicians; the greater the gap, the greater the disagreement between liberals and conservatives. The greater the disagreement between liberals and conservatives, the less Congress is able to get done; the less Congress gets done, the greater the gap between rich and poor.
Actually, income disparity accords with many other things, as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has found. The greater the income gap, the higher the teenage pregnancy rate (poverty, ignorance, lack of sex education, and opposition to contraceptives are all at play here). The greater the income gap, the more education suffers, the less there is of social mobility, the greater the difficulty of reaching higher education, and the higher the premium put on it.
How can big money be the cure for our politics when it is the cause of most of its problems? Scarborough, along with every second pundit in Washington, claims that Republicans will get a national majority when they trim back their extremist positions. Others say that demographic trends among blacks and Latinos, women and young people make it dangerous for them to court majorities. Andrew Hacker, in these pages, shows that the power of the Republicans, in the House, the state legislatures, and the courts, comes from their ability to thwart majorities.* A majority of votes cast for members of the House in 2012 went to Democrats, but—thanks to gerrymandering after an off-year election with low turnout and fierce Republican focus—the Republicans won by a disparity mimicking the income gap. In Pennsylvania, for instance, Republicans won only 47 percent of the votes but walked away with 72 percent of the seats.
The House still has the power that Scarborough credits Gingrich with gaining for them in 1994. But the situation is more like the reverse of the one Scarborough thinks he is describing. In fact, the things he opposes—the New Deal, Obamacare, "Yalta"—are the mainstream, and Republicans only have the obstructive power their extremists give them. Republican power is minority power, seen in their record-breaking resort to filibusters to block majority votes in the Senate, and in their plans to stock the Senate with majority-thwarters by rescinding the Seventeenth Amendment: they want to take away the people's power to elect senators and give the power to appoint them back to state legislators, who are already limiting voting times and qualifications.
On issue after issue—reasonable gun control, women's rights to contraceptives or elective abortion, marriage equality, easier voter access—a majority of Americans disagree with Republicans, who cannot admit this without losing their fanatical core. They claim they have no war on women, but they cannot change positions on abortion without losing their religious base. They cannot admit any gun restrictions without bringing down the wrath of the NRA. They cannot loosen immigration laws without infuriating the nativists among them. They cannot loosen their voting restrictions or votes on welfare without alienating their Confederate avengers. Yet in all of this they are protected by their untouchable backers, the rich who can never, never, ever pay more taxes. Scarborough's silly picture of American politics leaves out most of the things that matter—including (but not restricted to) race, religion, and money. And the greatest of these is money.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Also all this talk of the "not a muslim ban" "we love muslims" and he sold Palestine down the river yesterday!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Also all this talk of the "not a muslim ban" "we love muslims" and he sold Palestine down the river yesterday!!!
Trump is for the birds
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 11:04:11 AM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/03/09/terrifying-trump/

Trump's possible mental deficiencies are also a troubling question: serious medical professionals suspect he has narcissistic personality disorder, and also oncoming dementia, judging from his limited vocabulary. (If one compares his earlier appearances on YouTube, for example a 1988 interview with Larry King, it appears that Trump used to speak more fluently and coherently than he does now, especially in some of his recent rambling presentations.) His perseverating about such matters as the size of his inauguration crowd, or the fantasy that three to five million illegal voters denied him a popular vote victory (he got these estimates from a dodgy source who has yet to offer documentation), or, as he told CIA employees, the number of times he's been on the cover of Time (sometimes inflating the actual number) has become a joke, but it also suggests that there may be something troubling about his mental state. Numerous eminent psychologists and psychiatrists have written about or expressed their concerns about Trump's mental stability
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 11:26:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

"Fox and Friends is great because they ask me softball questions and never challenge my lies and bullshit!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 11:47:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 11:26:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

"Fox and Friends is great because they ask me softball questions and never challenge my lies and bullshit!"

Rob Bluey ‏@RobertBluey 


.@seanspicer with shoutout to @DailySignal on #Hannity: "The mainstream media isn't the only game in town anymore."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Also all this talk of the "not a muslim ban" "we love muslims" and he sold Palestine down the river yesterday!!!

He brings Clinton into it to try to distract and discredit the legitimate questions being raised.

And the Palestinian thing is just a disgrace. Look for Israel to double down even more on Jerusalem and the land theft.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2017, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Also all this talk of the "not a muslim ban" "we love muslims" and he sold Palestine down the river yesterday!!!

Obama and Hillary have plants in the current administration trying to wreck everything he does - just ask Alex Jones from Infowars

http://www.infowars.com/deep-state-resistance-spies-withhold-intel-from-trump-says-wsj/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 12:48:01 PM
The US is so polarised. Trump only addresses the minority who voted for him. They think he is revolutionary.  The others see a kleptocrat and huckster.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 01:18:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Probably something to do with the 3-0 tweet she sent recently. He's not going to let her forget she lost.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 01:22:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Also all this talk of the "not a muslim ban" "we love muslims" and he sold Palestine down the river yesterday!!!

He brings Clinton into it to try to distract and discredit the legitimate questions being raised.

And the Palestinian thing is just a disgrace. Look for Israel to double down even more on Jerusalem and the land theft.
It is a disaster for Israel more than anything. Apartheid is going to destroy support.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 01:24:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 12:45:10 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 11:23:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 10:12:56 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  14 feb

Warren is the world's weirdest attack dog, she lied about her ethnicity to get into college and yet the liberals hold her up as some kind of kryptonite against big bad Donald.

I am all for Trump being impeached if they have the evidence against him.

That's the difference between us, you lot creamed yourselves over the thought of losing Clinton to a well deserved cell, if he is guilty I would have Trump impeached.
Reports say our own intel agencies have corroborated parts of a dossier alleging that Russia has compromising info about @realDonaldTrump.

Sorry, but Warren's family oral tradition that she's part native lacking documentary support (as such stories often do) doesn't get Trump off the hook about what she has to say.

And especially not from a party home to all kinds of people with sketchy history when it comes to racial and other issues. You and Trump can shout "Pocahontas" all you want. If its a character battle you're looking for, Warren beats Trump every day of the week (and Bannon and Sessions and all the rest of them too).

Family oral history? Hahahahah. She's a liar, if that's the 'character' you like. Just like Hillary.
And it's "fake pocahontas" if you want to get it right. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 01:42:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 01:24:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 12:45:10 AM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2017, 11:23:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2017, 10:12:56 PM
Elizabeth Warren ‏@SenWarren  14 feb

Warren is the world's weirdest attack dog, she lied about her ethnicity to get into college and yet the liberals hold her up as some kind of kryptonite against big bad Donald.

I am all for Trump being impeached if they have the evidence against him.

That's the difference between us, you lot creamed yourselves over the thought of losing Clinton to a well deserved cell, if he is guilty I would have Trump impeached.
Reports say our own intel agencies have corroborated parts of a dossier alleging that Russia has compromising info about @realDonaldTrump.

Sorry, but Warren's family oral tradition that she's part native lacking documentary support (as such stories often do) doesn't get Trump off the hook about what she has to say.

And especially not from a party home to all kinds of people with sketchy history when it comes to racial and other issues. You and Trump can shout "Pocahontas" all you want. If its a character battle you're looking for, Warren beats Trump every day of the week (and Bannon and Sessions and all the rest of them too).

Family oral history? Hahahahah. She's a liar, if that's the 'character' you like. Just like Hillary.
And it's "fake pocahontas" if you want to get it right.

If you have something contradictory in the way of facts to bring to the discussion, go for it (I'll not hold my breath).

And I didn't say she had a flawless character. I said she'd beat Trump, Bannon, Sessions and the rest of them in a character battle every day of the week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 01:18:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Probably something to do with the 3-0 tweet she sent recently. He's not going to let her forget she lost.

Yes, that will sort his mess out for him! ;D

Get a grip - he's trying to distract and deflect.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 01:18:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Probably something to do with the 3-0 tweet she sent recently. He's not going to let her forget she lost.

Yes, that will sort his mess out for him! ;D

Get a grip - he's trying to distract and deflect.

When the likes of Obama and Hillary keep popping their heads up with soundbytes I can understand the need to shoot them down. It's like rodent control, have to stop them early.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 16, 2017, 02:11:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2017, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Also all this talk of the "not a muslim ban" "we love muslims" and he sold Palestine down the river yesterday!!!

Obama and Hillary have plants in the current administration trying to wreck everything he does - just ask Alex Jones from Infowars

http://www.infowars.com/deep-state-resistance-spies-withhold-intel-from-trump-says-wsj/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJqLAleEnKw&t=30m38s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 02:19:37 PM
Jaysus that's the header from the Piers Morgan Gun Control interview a few years back

"1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms"

A total f**king wackjob and the reason that background checks should be introduced for all firearms.... now he's running a conservative "news" website??

Ridiculous!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 02:42:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 01:18:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Probably something to do with the 3-0 tweet she sent recently. He's not going to let her forget she lost.

Yes, that will sort his mess out for him! ;D

Get a grip - he's trying to distract and deflect.

When the likes of Obama and Hillary keep popping their heads up with soundbytes I can understand the need to shoot them down. It's like rodent control, have to stop them early.

I've no problem whatsoever with Trump legitimately defending himself.

In this case, however, he is merely trying to change the subject and delegitimize valid criticism and concerns by resorting to his usual  baseless conspiracy theorizing.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/330f.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 02:49:31 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 02:19:37 PM
Jaysus that's the header from the Piers Morgan Gun Control interview a few years back

"1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms"

A total f**king wackjob and the reason that background checks should be introduced for all firearms.... now he's running a conservative "news" website??

Ridiculous!!

You weren't aware of Alex Jones?

He's the king of whackjob, braindead, right wing, paranoid, illuminati/new world order hyping, conspiracy loons! "Sandy Hook was a false flag operation" and Jade Helm and all that ludicrous bollocks. And naturally, a very influential source for Trump.

Where do you think he got the three million illegal immigrant vote figure from?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on February 16, 2017, 02:50:12 PM
John Schindler's @20committee timeline on twitter is interesting!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 03:39:13 PM
Time beat you to it J70

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4y1EjvVcAACVyD.jpg:small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 03:41:40 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 03:39:13 PM
Time beat you to it J70

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4y1EjvVcAACVyD.jpg:small)

;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 04:16:24 PM
Morning Joe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvyQRLqx7pE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2017, 04:48:25 PM
Still waiting, Fox.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 16, 2017, 05:04:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 01:18:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Probably something to do with the 3-0 tweet she sent recently. He's not going to let her forget she lost.

Yes, that will sort his mess out for him! ;D

Get a grip - he's trying to distract and deflect.

When the likes of Obama and Hillary keep popping their heads up with soundbytes I can understand the need to shoot them down. It's like rodent control, have to stop them early.

Foxy, the rodent control reference lifts the mask on the game book you are playing from.
https://algebraworksblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/hanity-fox-news-goebbels_rat.jpg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 05:28:10 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 16, 2017, 05:04:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 01:18:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h

This Russian connection non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign.
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  21 h
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable.
@foxandfriends is great

Why bring Clinton into things? Surely the election is over and she is a redundant force now interesting to see the President's mindset!

Probably something to do with the 3-0 tweet she sent recently. He's not going to let her forget she lost.

Yes, that will sort his mess out for him! ;D

Get a grip - he's trying to distract and deflect.

When the likes of Obama and Hillary keep popping their heads up with soundbytes I can understand the need to shoot them down. It's like rodent control, have to stop them early.

Foxy, the rodent control reference lifts the mask on the game book you are playing from.
https://algebraworksblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/hanity-fox-news-goebbels_rat.jpg

I was equating them to pests but you liberals always seem to find a more hysterical meaning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2017, 05:28:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2017, 04:48:25 PM
Still waiting, Fox.

Go back and watch your Magic Mike DVD ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 16, 2017, 06:16:49 PM
"Rodent control" - does that refer to the many moles* inside the Tiny Handsky administration who are leaking like an incontinent old man, or to the rats fleeing the sinking ship?

Whatever rodent control the clown-in-chief is employing, it ain't working.

*I'm aware that moles technically aren't rodents, but it was too good a pun to turn down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 07:07:20 PM
The next few months should be a laugh. Foxy and Co will have to defend the hopeless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2017, 07:18:00 PM
What in the name of f**k was that all about ? ? ? ?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 16, 2017, 07:27:19 PM
Wow--he's demented, stringing together random words and railing about the media.  So out of touch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:07:15 PM
Tara Copp
#SecDef Mattis is in complete disagreement with @realDonaldTrump - "little doubt" Russia interfered https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4657094/defense-secretary-james-mattis-theres-little-doubt-russia-interfered-elections ...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 16, 2017, 08:19:20 PM
Did all our trump haters take a day off today ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 16, 2017, 08:24:50 PM
That seems more interested in settling scores than being President!!

Good luck America you've done this to yourselves I just hope the nuclear holocaust he talks about doesn't hit Ireland!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 08:26:18 PM
"270 which you need, that was laughable. We got 306 because people came out and voted like they've never seen before so that's the way it goes. I guess it was the biggest electoral college win since Ronald Reagan."

WTF??

Is the man incapable of opening his mouth without making up the most ridiculous, self-aggrandizing, lying bullshit? Is he utterly deluded? Are his staff back there blowing smoke up his arse to the extent that he really believes this shit?  ;D

Yes Donald, you had the biggest electoral college win since Obama 2012.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 16, 2017, 08:32:15 PM
What's more is that Trump got more votes than any other white man that has ever run for President!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 08:36:12 PM
Is Trump a nasty version of Mel Brooks' deluded, clueless, William J. Le Petomane?

If so, who is  Hedley Lamarr? Bannon?

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/932/2112/1600/blazingsaddles1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 08:36:12 PM
Is Trump a nasty version of Mel Brooks' deluded, clueless, William J. Le Petomane?

If so, who is  Hedley Lamarr? Bannon?

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/932/2112/1600/blazingsaddles1.jpg)
Either Koch may be Lamarr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRB1mpEFeCQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 09:04:05 PM
"The Russia thing is a ruse."

It's even more chaotic than when Banty managed Meath
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 09:23:00 PM
Peter Beinart ‏@PeterBeinart  50 min

Trump begins presser boasting about alliance w/ billionaire donor Paul Singer, then says he's "taking on this entrenched power structure"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 16, 2017, 09:59:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 09:04:05 PM
"The Russia thing is a ruse."

It's even more chaotic than when Banty managed Meath

LOL

I knew you'd eventually find a witty quip seafoid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 10:39:51 PM
Joe Scarborough

‏@JoeNBC

FWIW, Republicans on the Hill were panicked behind the scenes by Trump's performance today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2017, 11:40:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 08:36:12 PM
Is Trump a nasty version of Mel Brooks' deluded, clueless, William J. Le Petomane?

If so, who is  Hedley Lamarr? Bannon?

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/932/2112/1600/blazingsaddles1.jpg)
Either Koch may be Lamarr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRB1mpEFeCQ

Never gets old! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 01:03:28 AM
If Trump is so fond of bragging about the fact that he won, why does he keep holding campaign rallies? What does he think his job is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on February 17, 2017, 08:48:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 08:26:18 PM
"270 which you need, that was laughable. We got 306 because people came out and voted like they've never seen before so that's the way it goes. I guess it was the biggest electoral college win since Ronald Reagan."

WTF??

Is the man incapable of opening his mouth without making up the most ridiculous, self-aggrandizing, lying bullshit? Is he utterly deluded? Are his staff back there blowing smoke up his arse to the extent that he really believes this shit?  ;D

Yes Donald, you had the biggest electoral college win since Obama 2012.  ::)
I think he corrected himself to say it was the biggest Republican electoral college win since Reagan.
Reporter then pointed out George HW had also got more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on February 17, 2017, 08:54:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 10:39:51 PM
Joe Scarborough

‏@JoeNBC

FWIW, Republicans on the Hill were panicked behind the scenes by Trump's performance today.

I think the GOP is playing the long game. They cant be seen to push Trump until he loses his fan base or it will bite them in the mid-terms. They are hoping to get some of their big ticket items through (repeal of Obamacare, light touch financial and environmental regulations) before he does too much damage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 17, 2017, 08:55:47 AM
That's exactly what happened. Couldn't believe what I was watching half the time last night, it was completely surreal. He was getting heckled ffs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2017, 09:58:59 AM
FT :
.""Harward is conflicted between the call of duty and the obvious dysfunctionality," said one person with first hand knowledge of the discussions between Mr Trump and Mr Harward


Guardian :
But there can only be one takeaway from the press conference – Trump may have become president, but he will never be presidential. It has only been 27 days since the president took office. There are still at least three years and 11 months left to go, and it is never going to be normal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFkzRNyygfk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 17, 2017, 11:23:23 AM
(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/trump-cover-final.jpg?w=560)

Letter to the NYT

To the Editor:

Fevered media speculation about Donald Trump's psychological motivations and psychiatric diagnosis has recently encouraged mental health professionals to disregard the usual ethical constraints against diagnosing public figures at a distance. They have sponsored several petitions and a Feb. 14 letter to The New York Times suggesting that Mr. Trump is incapable, on psychiatric grounds, of serving as president.

Most amateur diagnosticians have mislabeled President Trump with the diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. I wrote the criteria that define this disorder, and Mr. Trump doesn't meet them. He may be a world-class narcissist, but this doesn't make him mentally ill, because he does not suffer from the distress and impairment required to diagnose mental disorder.

Mr. Trump causes severe distress rather than experiencing it and has been richly rewarded, rather than punished, for his grandiosity, self-absorption and lack of empathy. It is a stigmatizing insult to the mentally ill (who are mostly well behaved and well meaning) to be lumped with Mr. Trump (who is neither).

Bad behavior is rarely a sign of mental illness, and the mentally ill behave badly only rarely. Psychiatric name-calling is a misguided way of countering Mr. Trump's attack on democracy. He can, and should, be appropriately denounced for his ignorance, incompetence, impulsivity and pursuit of dictatorial powers.

His psychological motivations are too obvious to be interesting, and analyzing them will not halt his headlong power grab. The antidote to a dystopic Trumpean dark age is political, not psychological.

ALLEN FRANCES

Coronado, Calif.

The writer, professor emeritus of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Duke University Medical College, was chairman of the task force that wrote the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (D.S.M.-IV).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 17, 2017, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 17, 2017, 08:48:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2017, 08:26:18 PM
"270 which you need, that was laughable. We got 306 because people came out and voted like they've never seen before so that's the way it goes. I guess it was the biggest electoral college win since Ronald Reagan."

WTF??

Is the man incapable of opening his mouth without making up the most ridiculous, self-aggrandizing, lying bullshit? Is he utterly deluded? Are his staff back there blowing smoke up his arse to the extent that he really believes this shit?  ;D

Yes Donald, you had the biggest electoral college win since Obama 2012.  ::)
I think he corrected himself to say it was the biggest Republican electoral college win since Reagan.
Reporter then pointed out George HW had also got more.

He defended himself with "someone told me".

Basically another version of his "a lot of people are saying" that he uses to spread lies and conspiracies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 17, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
The Associated Press Verified account
‏
BREAKING: Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on February 17, 2017, 03:37:02 PM
Will they wear brown shirts?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2017, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 17, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
The Associated Press Verified account
‏
BREAKING: Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.
That would include Irish illegals presumably
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 17, 2017, 04:42:11 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 17, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
The Associated Press Verified account
‏
BREAKING: Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.

In fairness things like the above don't help "the media" cause as Spicer has come out and said it is 100% false and the National Guard have said the same!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 17, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2017, 05:02:20 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 17, 2017, 08:54:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 10:39:51 PM
Joe Scarborough

‏@JoeNBC

FWIW, Republicans on the Hill were panicked behind the scenes by Trump's performance today.

I think the GOP is playing the long game. They cant be seen to push Trump until he loses his fan base or it will bite them in the mid-terms. They are hoping to get some of their big ticket items through (repeal of Obamacare, light touch financial and environmental regulations) before he does too much damage.
The GOP didn't expect to win the election and is divided into at least 3 tribes so I don't think it is very coherent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2017, 05:05:41 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/mark-sanford-profile-214791
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 17, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??

Some conservative nutjobs were going on about Obama "coming to get our guns," "going to impose communism" and "going to declare martial law" during his presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on February 17, 2017, 09:02:34 PM
https://youtu.be/G8BXFfZCWEA. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 05:45:51 AM
SNL don't need to work on any sketches this week. They can just rerun the press conference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:52:54 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 17, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
The Associated Press Verified account
‏
BREAKING: Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.

Bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on February 18, 2017, 08:30:51 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 05:45:51 AM
SNL don't need to work on any sketches this week. They can just rerun the press conference.

Sure, but this is the exact same attitude by most media forms as there was during the Republican Primaries and the Election.
The Irish media are still giving Trump the same credit as prior to the election.
They were all wrong then, yet they are doing the same thing.
Fighting Trump on his ground doesn't work. If everyone treats him like a Paris Hilton type buffoon he'll mop the floor with ye. SNL are only feeding the beast.
A big problem is that most media outlets want the type of coverage Trump provides despite it's counter effect. It's like an addiction, you can't get enough of the thing that's killing you.
Trump should e treated as the PoUSA, a politician in the traditional sense. That's a battle I think he doesn't have the heart for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 10:31:37 AM
Donald J. Trump

‏@realDonaldTrump

The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

Regarding Foxtrot :

Fox News@FoxNews 8 h

.@RichLowry: "Criticizing a court, criticizing the press, it's all part of a freewheeling debate." #Tucker
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 18, 2017, 10:39:41 AM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:52:54 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 17, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
The Associated Press Verified account
‏
BREAKING: Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.

Bullshit.

What exactly is bullshit? The memo? The fact it was considered? The chance of it ever happening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 10:58:18 AM
Fox treatment of media as enemy of the people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePL5EFycPlo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2017, 11:06:05 AM
Quote from: vallankumous on February 18, 2017, 08:30:51 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 05:45:51 AM
SNL don't need to work on any sketches this week. They can just rerun the press conference.

Sure, but this is the exact same attitude by most media forms as there was during the Republican Primaries and the Election.
The Irish media are still giving Trump the same credit as prior to the election.
They were all wrong then, yet they are doing the same thing.
Fighting Trump on his ground doesn't work. If everyone treats him like a Paris Hilton type buffoon he'll mop the floor with ye. SNL are only feeding the beast.
A big problem is that most media outlets want the type of coverage Trump provides despite it's counter effect. It's like an addiction, you can't get enough of the thing that's killing you.
Trump should e treated as the PoUSA, a politician in the traditional sense. That's a battle I think he doesn't have the heart for.

I agree that Trump is playing to his audience but how would you expect the media to cover the press conference last Thursday?? As if it was just a run of the mill press conference?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 11:32:52 AM
Trump is unlikely to get anything done. He is incompetent. He is a pathological liar. He has a short attention span. He creates crises that deflect attention from real issues. He is a hopeless manager. He has too many enemies .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2017, 12:38:01 PM
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/lp/mainstream-media-accountability-survey (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/lp/mainstream-media-accountability-survey)

Check out his "mainstream media accountability survey".  :o ;D

I would ask also, as gallsman has, how exactly are the media supposed to cover Trump?

Calling him out on his blatant, transparent lies lead to the above bollocks. But what else do you do? Let him away with it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2017, 01:44:02 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:52:54 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 17, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
The Associated Press Verified account
‏
BREAKING: Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.

Bullshit.

Its not bullshit.

They've acknowledged the document exists. They DID consider use of the NG.

The AP gave them multiple chances to comment, but they decided they preferred to say nothing and then play the "fake news" card, even while acknowledging that the leak was true.

Trump must think the US people are incredibly stupid if he thinks they're all going to fall for this bollocks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on February 18, 2017, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2017, 11:06:05 AM


I agree that Trump is playing to his audience but how would you expect the media to cover the press conference last Thursday?? As if it was just a run of the mill press conference?

I didn't see it. Yeah it's almost impossible to act any other way. THat's my point about it being addictive, or car crash, we just can't help ourselves.
I remember when x factor come out all the Radio DJs and musicians would lambast it and the results would then be covered on the news. We couldn't get enough.
Once the X FActor is over and the winners face the real industry they can't handle it. The bluster is over and they're judged as musicians. Then they crash out. I think Trump is similar to this.

There will be a time that Trump is dealing in politics. That's when he'll be found out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 02:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 12:38:01 PM
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/lp/mainstream-media-accountability-survey (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/lp/mainstream-media-accountability-survey)

Check out his "mainstream media accountability survey".  :o ;D

I would ask also, as gallsman has, how exactly are the media supposed to cover Trump?

Calling him out on his blatant, transparent lies lead to the above bollocks. But what else do you do? Let him away with it?
Trump is too stupid to win the war against the media
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 17, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??

Some conservative nutjobs were going on about Obama "coming to get our guns," "going to impose communism" and "going to declare martial law" during his presidency.

Their kissing cousin nutjobs on the left droning on about Fascism and brownshirts  and slabbering on about Trump being a Nazi, two sides of the same shitty coin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2017, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 17, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??

Some conservative nutjobs were going on about Obama "coming to get our guns," "going to impose communism" and "going to declare martial law" during his presidency.

Their kissing cousin nutjobs on the left droning on about Fascism and brownshirts  and slabbering on about Trump being a Nazi, two sides of the same shitty coin.

The key difference being that there is some commonality between Trump's rhetoric and those of the early Nazi years.

The stuff on Obama was utterly baseless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:39:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 17, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??

Some conservative nutjobs were going on about Obama "coming to get our guns," "going to impose communism" and "going to declare martial law" during his presidency.

Their kissing cousin nutjobs on the left droning on about Fascism and brownshirts  and slabbering on about Trump being a Nazi, two sides of the same shitty coin.

The key difference being that there is some commonality between Trump's rhetoric and those of the early Nazi years.

The stuff on Obama was utterly baseless.

Are you saying Trump has Nazi tendencies?

Here is whats going to happen, the GOP are going to lie in wait to get a few of the policies they really want implemented, once attained they will turn on Trump and I seriously doubt he will last the four years, if he does he will be a lame duck President for three quarters of his term because Paul Ryan and his ilk are not going to back this man, they just are not going to allow him to destroy the republican party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 02:45:35 PM
Trump won't get anything done
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2017, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:39:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 17, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??

Some conservative nutjobs were going on about Obama "coming to get our guns," "going to impose communism" and "going to declare martial law" during his presidency.

Their kissing cousin nutjobs on the left droning on about Fascism and brownshirts  and slabbering on about Trump being a Nazi, two sides of the same shitty coin.

The key difference being that there is some commonality between Trump's rhetoric and those of the early Nazi years.

The stuff on Obama was utterly baseless.

Are you saying Trump has Nazi tendencies?

Here is whats going to happen, the GOP are going to lie in wait to get a few of the policies they really want implemented, once attained they will turn on Trump and I seriously doubt he will last the four years, if he does he will be a lame duck President for three quarters of his term because Paul Ryan and his ilk are not going to back this man, they just are not going to allow him to destroy the republican party.

No idea if he personally does. I think he probably doesn't give a shit about anything except his own aggrandizement and ego and has seized upon the far right and exploited the concerns of the white working class as the vehicle to facilitate his ascent to the presidency. Another trophy for his cabinet, like all his wives and properties and incessant attention seeking.

But he and his campaign and administration have doubled down on demonizing the press, muslims, immigrants, etc., expanding the military, and massaging the persecution complex and resentment of their base. "Making America great again", whatever that means.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall (https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall)

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf (https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf)

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:39:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 17, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??

Some conservative nutjobs were going on about Obama "coming to get our guns," "going to impose communism" and "going to declare martial law" during his presidency.

Their kissing cousin nutjobs on the left droning on about Fascism and brownshirts  and slabbering on about Trump being a Nazi, two sides of the same shitty coin.

The key difference being that there is some commonality between Trump's rhetoric and those of the early Nazi years.

The stuff on Obama was utterly baseless.

Are you saying Trump has Nazi tendencies?

Here is whats going to happen, the GOP are going to lie in wait to get a few of the policies they really want implemented, once attained they will turn on Trump and I seriously doubt he will last the four years, if he does he will be a lame duck President for three quarters of his term because Paul Ryan and his ilk are not going to back this man, they just are not going to allow him to destroy the republican party.

It would be nice if they did that, but Trump has already laid waste to the mainstream GOP in the primaries.

However, scandals may do him in, although again, he had his fair share of those in the campaign. Although he did have Hillary to use to distract everyone back then. Looks like the press is taking her place in terms of a "look over there" foil.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2017, 04:31:21 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on February 18, 2017, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2017, 11:06:05 AM


I agree that Trump is playing to his audience but how would you expect the media to cover the press conference last Thursday?? As if it was just a run of the mill press conference?

I didn't see it. Yeah it's almost impossible to act any other way. THat's my point about it being addictive, or car crash, we just can't help ourselves.
I remember when x factor come out all the Radio DJs and musicians would lambast it and the results would then be covered on the news. We couldn't get enough.
Once the X FActor is over and the winners face the real industry they can't handle it. The bluster is over and they're judged as musicians. Then they crash out. I think Trump is similar to this.

There will be a time that Trump is dealing in politics. That's when he'll be found out.

I wonder would some of them have the balls to stop attending the press conferences? Although then you're potentially disrespecting the office of president so it's a no-win
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:39:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 17, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??

Some conservative nutjobs were going on about Obama "coming to get our guns," "going to impose communism" and "going to declare martial law" during his presidency.

Their kissing cousin nutjobs on the left droning on about Fascism and brownshirts  and slabbering on about Trump being a Nazi, two sides of the same shitty coin.

The key difference being that there is some commonality between Trump's rhetoric and those of the early Nazi years.

The stuff on Obama was utterly baseless.

Are you saying Trump has Nazi tendencies?

Here is whats going to happen, the GOP are going to lie in wait to get a few of the policies they really want implemented, once attained they will turn on Trump and I seriously doubt he will last the four years, if he does he will be a lame duck President for three quarters of his term because Paul Ryan and his ilk are not going to back this man, they just are not going to allow him to destroy the republican party.

No idea if he personally does. I think he probably doesn't give a shit about anything except his own aggrandizement and ego and has seized upon the far right and exploited the concerns of the white working class as the vehicle to facilitate his ascent to the presidency. Another trophy for his cabinet, like all his wives and properties and incessant attention seeking.

But he and his campaign and administration have doubled down on demonizing the press, muslims, immigrants, etc., expanding the military, and massaging the persecution complex and resentment of their base. "Making America great again", whatever that means.

It took far more than the working class whites and far right to get him elected, you lot need to accept the fact he won over his fair share of democrats who just could not vote for killory, he won over enough black and Hispanic voters and he did really well with the undecideds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall (https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall)

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf (https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf)

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2017, 05:42:50 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall (https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall)

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf (https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf)

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.

Just shows you shit some of the other presidents were! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2017, 05:44:15 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:39:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 17, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM
I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??

Some conservative nutjobs were going on about Obama "coming to get our guns," "going to impose communism" and "going to declare martial law" during his presidency.

Their kissing cousin nutjobs on the left droning on about Fascism and brownshirts  and slabbering on about Trump being a Nazi, two sides of the same shitty coin.

The key difference being that there is some commonality between Trump's rhetoric and those of the early Nazi years.

The stuff on Obama was utterly baseless.

Are you saying Trump has Nazi tendencies?

Here is whats going to happen, the GOP are going to lie in wait to get a few of the policies they really want implemented, once attained they will turn on Trump and I seriously doubt he will last the four years, if he does he will be a lame duck President for three quarters of his term because Paul Ryan and his ilk are not going to back this man, they just are not going to allow him to destroy the republican party.

No idea if he personally does. I think he probably doesn't give a shit about anything except his own aggrandizement and ego and has seized upon the far right and exploited the concerns of the white working class as the vehicle to facilitate his ascent to the presidency. Another trophy for his cabinet, like all his wives and properties and incessant attention seeking.

But he and his campaign and administration have doubled down on demonizing the press, muslims, immigrants, etc., expanding the military, and massaging the persecution complex and resentment of their base. "Making America great again", whatever that means.

It took far more than the working class whites and far right to get him elected, you lot need to accept the fact he won over his fair share of democrats who just could not vote for killory, he won over enough black and Hispanic voters and he did really well with the undecideds.

I didn't say some Democrats didn't fall for his shite.

Doesn't change the basis of his campaign though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 18, 2017, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall (https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall)

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf (https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf)

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.
Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 09:04:26 PM
Meanwhile

Brandon Friedman @brandonfriedman

Army Secretary withdrew. Navy Secretary withdrawing. First National Security Advisor resigned. Two potential replacements withdrew.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2017, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 18, 2017, 09:04:26 PM
Meanwhile

Brandon Friedman @brandonfriedman

Army Secretary withdrew. Navy Secretary withdrawing. First National Security Advisor resigned. Two potential replacements withdrew.

"...like a fine-tuned machine..."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 18, 2017, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 18, 2017, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall (https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall)

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf (https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf)

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.
Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.

Tyrone prejustice again with James Buchanan languishing in last place

I got to wonder tho is it circumstances that make greatness rather than anything the president does.

I mean George Washington was the first president but were the colonies gonna break away and establish their own union anyway?, Ab abolished slavery but the tide had long turned against slavery anyway. LBJ had a low starting point so things couldnt get worse and America would inevitably have won WW2 anyway. Truman and Eisenhower were in office during the post war period which naturally was a period of economic growth and stability.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on February 19, 2017, 02:23:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 18, 2017, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 18, 2017, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall (https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall)

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf (https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf)

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.
Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.

Tyrone prejustice again with James Buchanan languishing in last place

I got to wonder tho is it circumstances that make greatness rather than anything the president does.

I mean George Washington was the first president but were the colonies gonna break away and establish their own union anyway?, Ab abolished slavery but the tide had long turned against slavery anyway. LBJ had a low starting point so things couldnt get worse and America would inevitably have won WW2 anyway. Truman and Eisenhower were in office during the post war period which naturally was a period of economic growth and stability.

LBJ was nowhere near WW2. Sixties after Kennedy got shot. The colonies were the first United States. The expansions and mass genocide of the natives happened later. Washington though had slaves. The US has a very 'complicated' history.

Truman got landed with finishing the war v Japan and Korea. Eisenhower had to deal with the hydrogen bomb, and after what he experienced in WW2 and Khrushchev also knew, a bit of sanity prevailed. Those guys saved us all.
I'd have more faith in likes of Khrushchev and Eisenhower than megalomaniacs like Putin and Trump. Khrushchev and Eisenhower had a conscience. Both made huge decisions as military leaders that cost the lives of thousands of their own countrymen as well as the Germans.   But as leaders - rather than generals - they showed good judgement and restraint.
Trump and Putin are shaman by comparison
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 19, 2017, 02:51:39 AM
Yep... nothing like a "well oiled" chicken hawk with small hands and sore foot to get the row going and let the "little people" suffer the consequences. His kids will be too busy shooting elephants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 19, 2017, 07:00:11 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 18, 2017, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 18, 2017, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall (https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall)

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf (https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf)

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.
Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.

Tyrone prejustice again with James Buchanan languishing in last place

I got to wonder tho is it circumstances that make greatness rather than anything the president does.

I mean George Washington was the first president but were the colonies gonna break away and establish their own union anyway?, Ab abolished slavery but the tide had long turned against slavery anyway. LBJ had a low starting point so things couldnt get worse and America would inevitably have won WW2 anyway. Truman and Eisenhower were in office during the post war period which naturally was a period of economic growth and stability.
Mt Rushmore features 1,2,3 and 7
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 19, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 19, 2017, 09:52:42 PM
Quote from: moysider on February 19, 2017, 02:23:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 18, 2017, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 18, 2017, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: stew on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall (https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall)

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf (https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf)

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.
Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.

Tyrone prejustice again with James Buchanan languishing in last place

I got to wonder tho is it circumstances that make greatness rather than anything the president does.

I mean George Washington was the first president but were the colonies gonna break away and establish their own union anyway?, Ab abolished slavery but the tide had long turned against slavery anyway. LBJ had a low starting point so things couldnt get worse and America would inevitably have won WW2 anyway. Truman and Eisenhower were in office during the post war period which naturally was a period of economic growth and stability.

LBJ was nowhere near WW2. Sixties after Kennedy got shot. The colonies were the first United States. The expansions and mass genocide of the natives happened later. Washington though had slaves. The US has a very 'complicated' history.

Truman got landed with finishing the war v Japan and Korea. Eisenhower had to deal with the hydrogen bomb, and after what he experienced in WW2 and Khrushchev also knew, a bit of sanity prevailed. Those guys saved us all.
I'd have more faith in likes of Khrushchev and Eisenhower than megalomaniacs like Putin and Trump. Khrushchev and Eisenhower had a conscience. Both made huge decisions as military leaders that cost the lives of thousands of their own countrymen as well as the Germans.   But as leaders - rather than generals - they showed good judgement and restraint.
Trump and Putin are shaman by comparison

Meant FDR not LBJ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 19, 2017, 09:56:28 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 19, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.
Good point. Well spotted

Meanwhile

Gary Shteyngart ‏@Shteyngart  9 h

Sweden stood with us after Bowling Green. Today we stand with Sweden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 20, 2017, 09:26:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2017, 09:56:28 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 19, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.
Good point. Well spotted

Meanwhile

Gary Shteyngart ‏@Shteyngart  9 h

Sweden stood with us after Bowling Green. Today we stand with Sweden.

Rape numbers have gone ballistic since the influx of immigrants, still standing with Sweden?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on February 20, 2017, 09:31:20 AM
Quote from: stew on February 20, 2017, 09:26:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2017, 09:56:28 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 19, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.
Good point. Well spotted

Meanwhile

Gary Shteyngart ‏@Shteyngart  9 h

Sweden stood with us after Bowling Green. Today we stand with Sweden.

Rape numbers have gone ballistic since the influx of immigrants, still standing with Sweden?
Sure throw up some figures there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 09:33:21 AM
Quote from: stew on February 20, 2017, 09:26:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2017, 09:56:28 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 19, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.
Good point. Well spotted

Meanwhile

Gary Shteyngart ‏@Shteyngart  9 h

Sweden stood with us after Bowling Green. Today we stand with Sweden.

Rape numbers have gone ballistic since the influx of immigrants, still standing with Sweden?

Read this, Stew

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-american-experiment-in-exile

"I have been thinking for weeks that the central challenge and reality of the Trump Era is what do you do as an institutionalist when the central institutions of the state have been taken over, albeit democratically, by what amount to pirates, people who want to destroy them? To put it another way, do the institutions and norms which Trump and his gang are trying to destroy become shackles and obstacles in the way of those trying to defend them? There's no easy answer to these questions. "
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 20, 2017, 11:17:59 AM
The central question of the Trump Presidency is not whether Trump will succeed. It is when he fails, how much damage will he do?

The press conference and virtually all his antics in the past two years, show that he is the Great White Shark of electioneering - he is a machine, doing and saying anything to get a vote, with no sign of personal integrity or a consistent ideological philosophy. And he has been hugely successful. But the first month of his administration shows us this method, and this man, are intrinsically unsuited to governing. He is smart, but he is not intelligent. He preys on emotions but has no empathy. His patriotism is dwarfed by his vanity. In short, he is a buffoon, but a very, very dangerous one.

A couple of pages ago, Stew posited what is becoming quite a popular theory - the Republicans will stick with him until their agenda is passed, then throw him overboard and welcome Captain Pence to the bridge. There is superficial logic to this but underneath incredible danger.

Firstly, his behaviour and his poll numbers make it increasingly unlikely that the Republican agenda can be passed. The Dems, for a fractured party, removed from the levers of power, have a done a damn good job of frustrating him so far. His own inconsistent messaging on Obamacare and tax reform are opening up the internal fissures of the GOP. The odds now are against a re-enactment of the Reagan years - far more likely to be a re-run of Carter's failed administration (except with more authoritarian overtones).

Secondly, even if the Republican leadership find a spine ("men" like McConnell, Ryan and Chaffetz should hang their heads in shame, assuming they are capable of feeling that emotion) why do you think Trump is going back to his rallies? The narrative is that he feels the same way about a full aircraft hangar as a toddler does about his blankie. Which may be true personally. But to his henchmen, like Bannon and Miller, when the 25th Amendment is invoked (and it will be that rather than impeachment) it is to those rallies that they will run. And they will sell those people the story of a president done down by an anti-democratic coup, of the "forgotten peoples'" votes being stolen - again. Of their hero being sucked into a swamp that must be resisted and drained. They will actually have more truth on their side than they have had for the past two years. And there will be a constitutional crisis to match the 1860s.

The terrible truth is that it is possible to go too far in the White House - and eventually toadies like the GOP leadership will have to act to bring him down. But the forces that they enabled in the first place to get him elected (over a period of half a century) are out there now, and they will have to be reckoned with it at some stage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 20, 2017, 11:17:59 AM
The central question of the Trump Presidency is not whether Trump will succeed. It is when he fails, how much damage will he do?

The press conference and virtually all his antics in the past two years, show that he is the Great White Shark of electioneering - he is a machine, doing and saying anything to get a vote, with no sign of personal integrity or a consistent ideological philosophy. And he has been hugely successful. But the first month of his administration shows us this method, and this man, are intrinsically unsuited to governing. He is smart, but he is not intelligent. He preys on emotions but has no empathy. His patriotism is dwarfed by his vanity. In short, he is a buffoon, but a very, very dangerous one.

A couple of pages ago, Stew posited what is becoming quite a popular theory - the Republicans will stick with him until their agenda is passed, then throw him overboard and welcome Captain Pence to the bridge. There is superficial logic to this but underneath incredible danger.

Firstly, his behaviour and his poll numbers make it increasingly unlikely that the Republican agenda can be passed. The Dems, for a fractured party, removed from the levers of power, have a done a damn good job of frustrating him so far. His own inconsistent messaging on Obamacare and tax reform are opening up the internal fissures of the GOP. The odds now are against a re-enactment of the Reagan years - far more likely to be a re-run of Carter's failed administration (except with more authoritarian overtones).

Secondly, even if the Republican leadership find a spine ("men" like McConnell, Ryan and Chaffetz should hang their heads in shame, assuming they are capable of feeling that emotion) why do you think Trump is going back to his rallies? The narrative is that he feels the same way about a full aircraft hangar as a toddler does about his blankie. Which may be true personally. But to his henchmen, like Bannon and Miller, when the 25th Amendment is invoked (and it will be that rather than impeachment) it is to those rallies that they will run. And they will sell those people the story of a president done down by an anti-democratic coup, of the "forgotten peoples'" votes being stolen - again. Of their hero being sucked into a swamp that must be resisted and drained. They will actually have more truth on their side than they have had for the past two years. And there will be a constitutional crisis to match the 1860s.

The terrible truth is that it is possible to go too far in the White House - and eventually toadies like the GOP leadership will have to act to bring him down. But the forces that they enabled in the first place to get him elected (over a period of half a century) are out there now, and they will have to be reckoned with it at some stage.

Great post.
there are so many variables. The Kochs, the housetrained Goppers, Bannon and Miller, the 1%, the tea party crowd and the people of flyover America .
Trump delivered a win nobody else could but he is a liability. the 1% want legislation for their money. the flyover crowd want jobs.

And behind it all is capital vs labour. If the Dems got behind labour the flyover crowd could join them and defeat Bannon and the other  Nazis. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 11:56:28 AM
This is very good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cDLflyQ8TA&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 20, 2017, 12:21:32 PM
Milo is a piece of work alright - check out the trend on twitter re CPAC2017
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 20, 2017, 12:59:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 20, 2017, 11:17:59 AM
The central question of the Trump Presidency is not whether Trump will succeed. It is when he fails, how much damage will he do?

The press conference and virtually all his antics in the past two years, show that he is the Great White Shark of electioneering - he is a machine, doing and saying anything to get a vote, with no sign of personal integrity or a consistent ideological philosophy. And he has been hugely successful. But the first month of his administration shows us this method, and this man, are intrinsically unsuited to governing. He is smart, but he is not intelligent. He preys on emotions but has no empathy. His patriotism is dwarfed by his vanity. In short, he is a buffoon, but a very, very dangerous one.

A couple of pages ago, Stew posited what is becoming quite a popular theory - the Republicans will stick with him until their agenda is passed, then throw him overboard and welcome Captain Pence to the bridge. There is superficial logic to this but underneath incredible danger.

Firstly, his behaviour and his poll numbers make it increasingly unlikely that the Republican agenda can be passed. The Dems, for a fractured party, removed from the levers of power, have a done a damn good job of frustrating him so far. His own inconsistent messaging on Obamacare and tax reform are opening up the internal fissures of the GOP. The odds now are against a re-enactment of the Reagan years - far more likely to be a re-run of Carter's failed administration (except with more authoritarian overtones).

Secondly, even if the Republican leadership find a spine ("men" like McConnell, Ryan and Chaffetz should hang their heads in shame, assuming they are capable of feeling that emotion) why do you think Trump is going back to his rallies? The narrative is that he feels the same way about a full aircraft hangar as a toddler does about his blankie. Which may be true personally. But to his henchmen, like Bannon and Miller, when the 25th Amendment is invoked (and it will be that rather than impeachment) it is to those rallies that they will run. And they will sell those people the story of a president done down by an anti-democratic coup, of the "forgotten peoples'" votes being stolen - again. Of their hero being sucked into a swamp that must be resisted and drained. They will actually have more truth on their side than they have had for the past two years. And there will be a constitutional crisis to match the 1860s.

The terrible truth is that it is possible to go too far in the White House - and eventually toadies like the GOP leadership will have to act to bring him down. But the forces that they enabled in the first place to get him elected (over a period of half a century) are out there now, and they will have to be reckoned with it at some stage.

Great post.
there are so many variables. The Kochs, the housetrained Goppers, Bannon and Miller, the 1%, the tea party crowd and the people of flyover America .
Trump delivered a win nobody else could but he is a liability. the 1% want legislation for their money. the flyover crowd want jobs.

And behind it all is capital vs labour. If the Dems got behind labour the flyover crowd could join them and defeat Bannon and the other  Nazis.

Which Nazis do you refer to?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 01:38:35 PM
Quote from: stew on February 20, 2017, 12:59:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 20, 2017, 11:17:59 AM
The central question of the Trump Presidency is not whether Trump will succeed. It is when he fails, how much damage will he do?

The press conference and virtually all his antics in the past two years, show that he is the Great White Shark of electioneering - he is a machine, doing and saying anything to get a vote, with no sign of personal integrity or a consistent ideological philosophy. And he has been hugely successful. But the first month of his administration shows us this method, and this man, are intrinsically unsuited to governing. He is smart, but he is not intelligent. He preys on emotions but has no empathy. His patriotism is dwarfed by his vanity. In short, he is a buffoon, but a very, very dangerous one.

A couple of pages ago, Stew posited what is becoming quite a popular theory - the Republicans will stick with him until their agenda is passed, then throw him overboard and welcome Captain Pence to the bridge. There is superficial logic to this but underneath incredible danger.

Firstly, his behaviour and his poll numbers make it increasingly unlikely that the Republican agenda can be passed. The Dems, for a fractured party, removed from the levers of power, have a done a damn good job of frustrating him so far. His own inconsistent messaging on Obamacare and tax reform are opening up the internal fissures of the GOP. The odds now are against a re-enactment of the Reagan years - far more likely to be a re-run of Carter's failed administration (except with more authoritarian overtones).

Secondly, even if the Republican leadership find a spine ("men" like McConnell, Ryan and Chaffetz should hang their heads in shame, assuming they are capable of feeling that emotion) why do you think Trump is going back to his rallies? The narrative is that he feels the same way about a full aircraft hangar as a toddler does about his blankie. Which may be true personally. But to his henchmen, like Bannon and Miller, when the 25th Amendment is invoked (and it will be that rather than impeachment) it is to those rallies that they will run. And they will sell those people the story of a president done down by an anti-democratic coup, of the "forgotten peoples'" votes being stolen - again. Of their hero being sucked into a swamp that must be resisted and drained. They will actually have more truth on their side than they have had for the past two years. And there will be a constitutional crisis to match the 1860s.

The terrible truth is that it is possible to go too far in the White House - and eventually toadies like the GOP leadership will have to act to bring him down. But the forces that they enabled in the first place to get him elected (over a period of half a century) are out there now, and they will have to be reckoned with it at some stage.

Great post.
there are so many variables. The Kochs, the housetrained Goppers, Bannon and Miller, the 1%, the tea party crowd and the people of flyover America .
Trump delivered a win nobody else could but he is a liability. the 1% want legislation for their money. the flyover crowd want jobs.

And behind it all is capital vs labour. If the Dems got behind labour the flyover crowd could join them and defeat Bannon and the other  Nazis.

Which Nazis do you refer to?
Bannon, Miller and Sessions plus their associates . Also anyone funded by the Kochs such as   Ebell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 20, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 01:38:35 PM
Quote from: stew on February 20, 2017, 12:59:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 20, 2017, 11:17:59 AM
The central question of the Trump Presidency is not whether Trump will succeed. It is when he fails, how much damage will he do?

The press conference and virtually all his antics in the past two years, show that he is the Great White Shark of electioneering - he is a machine, doing and saying anything to get a vote, with no sign of personal integrity or a consistent ideological philosophy. And he has been hugely successful. But the first month of his administration shows us this method, and this man, are intrinsically unsuited to governing. He is smart, but he is not intelligent. He preys on emotions but has no empathy. His patriotism is dwarfed by his vanity. In short, he is a buffoon, but a very, very dangerous one.

A couple of pages ago, Stew posited what is becoming quite a popular theory - the Republicans will stick with him until their agenda is passed, then throw him overboard and welcome Captain Pence to the bridge. There is superficial logic to this but underneath incredible danger.

Firstly, his behaviour and his poll numbers make it increasingly unlikely that the Republican agenda can be passed. The Dems, for a fractured party, removed from the levers of power, have a done a damn good job of frustrating him so far. His own inconsistent messaging on Obamacare and tax reform are opening up the internal fissures of the GOP. The odds now are against a re-enactment of the Reagan years - far more likely to be a re-run of Carter's failed administration (except with more authoritarian overtones).

Secondly, even if the Republican leadership find a spine ("men" like McConnell, Ryan and Chaffetz should hang their heads in shame, assuming they are capable of feeling that emotion) why do you think Trump is going back to his rallies? The narrative is that he feels the same way about a full aircraft hangar as a toddler does about his blankie. Which may be true personally. But to his henchmen, like Bannon and Miller, when the 25th Amendment is invoked (and it will be that rather than impeachment) it is to those rallies that they will run. And they will sell those people the story of a president done down by an anti-democratic coup, of the "forgotten peoples'" votes being stolen - again. Of their hero being sucked into a swamp that must be resisted and drained. They will actually have more truth on their side than they have had for the past two years. And there will be a constitutional crisis to match the 1860s.

The terrible truth is that it is possible to go too far in the White House - and eventually toadies like the GOP leadership will have to act to bring him down. But the forces that they enabled in the first place to get him elected (over a period of half a century) are out there now, and they will have to be reckoned with it at some stage.

Great post.
there are so many variables. The Kochs, the housetrained Goppers, Bannon and Miller, the 1%, the tea party crowd and the people of flyover America .
Trump delivered a win nobody else could but he is a liability. the 1% want legislation for their money. the flyover crowd want jobs.

And behind it all is capital vs labour. If the Dems got behind labour the flyover crowd could join them and defeat Bannon and the other  Nazis.

Which Nazis do you refer to?
Bannon, Miller and Sessions plus their associates . Also anyone funded by the Kochs such as   Ebell.

You have seen them in Nazi attire? Did they ever claim to be Nazis or utter a single word defending Hitler and his minnions?

Evidence please.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 20, 2017, 03:29:16 PM
QuoteYou have seen them in Nazi attire? Did they ever claim to be Nazis or utter a single word defending Hitler and his minnions?

Evidence please.

NOV 21, 2016 
"Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!"

That's how Richard B. Spencer saluted more than 200 attendees on Saturday, gathered at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C., for the annual conference of the National Policy Institute, which describes itself as "an independent organization dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of  people of European descent in the United States, and around the world."

Spencer has popularized the term "alt-right" to describe the movement he leads. Spencer has said his dream is "a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans," and has called for "peaceful ethnic cleansing."

For most of the day, a parade of speakers discussed their ideology in relatively anodyne terms, putting a presentable face on their agenda. But after dinner, when most journalists had already departed, Spencer rose and delivered a speech to his followers dripping with anti-Semitism, and leaving no doubt as to what he actually seeks. He referred to the mainstream media as "Lügenpresse," a term he said he was borrowing from "the original German"; the Nazis used the word to attack their critics in the press.

"America was until this past generation a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity," Spencer said. "It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us."   

The audience offered cheers, applause, and enthusiastic Nazi salutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 20, 2017, 09:23:51 PM
Leaders of the anti-Trump "resistance" movement let slip their true motivations, declaring they "need to make this country ungovernable."

Leftist activist group Occupy Oakland posted a manifesto on Twitter last week, writing, "We will control the streets. We will liberate the land. We will fight fascist. We will dismantle the state. This is war."

View image on Twitter
View image on Twitter
Follow
Occupy Oakland @OccupyOakland
We won this night. We will control the streets. We will liberate the land. We will fight fascists. We will dismantle the state. This is war.
4:14 AM - 2 Feb 2017
  1,503 1,503 Retweets   2,264 2,264 likes
RELATED STORIES

Wallace Says Trump Crossed The Line By Calling Media 'The Enemy Of The American People'
Fighter Jets Scramble After Planes Enter Restricted Air Space Near Trump Estate
John McCain To Media: I Hate You, But We Need You
The self-proclaimed "anti-fascist" protesters made it clear they aim to delegitimize democracy and President Trump through "direct action" on the streets.

DistruptJ20, the collective of groups that protested the president's inauguration in Washington D.C., wrote in their call to action that "Trump's success confirms the bankruptcy of representative democracy."

The protesters advocate against democracy, writing "rather than using the democratic process as an alibi for inaction, we must show that no election could legitimize [Trump's] agenda."

Paid Content:
Testosterone Booster Takes UK By Storm
New British Diet Pill Works Too Good?
1 Method Restores Your 20/20 Vision. Try This.
DistruptJ20 did not mince words, as rioters broke windows, beat innocent citizens, and even torched a limo that belonged to a Muslim immigrant during their inauguration "protests."

"Anti-fascist" protesters followed up their inauguration performance with another at the University of California Berkeley campus last week, where Breitbart editor Milo Yiannopoulos's speech was shut down by rioters.

The rioters described Yiannopoulos as a "tool of Trump's fascist government" and "has no right to speak at Cal or anywhere else!"

TRENDING STORIES

Comedian Tweets Donald Trump Jr., Asks Him To Expel Father From White House
US, European Officials Probe Soros' Meddling In Foreign Elections
Mexico Foreign Minister Says U.S. Deportations Are Down
Instead of letting others express their opinions on a publicly funded college campus, rioters pepper-sprayed individuals wearing "Make America Great Again" hats and set parts of their campus on fire.


Follow
janey @janeygak
My friend was giving an interview when some coward peppersprayed her #Berkeley
3:39 AM - 2 Feb 2017
  14,844 14,844 Retweets   13,711 13,711 likes
View image on Twitter
View image on Twitter
Follow
Shane Bauer ✔ @shane_bauer
Protests against Milo at UC Berkeley. Protesters chanting "This is what community looks like."
2:29 AM - 2 Feb 2017
  1,784 1,784 Retweets   2,331 2,331 likes
Ironically, the use of "direct action" by today's "anti-fascist" protesters mirrors the tactics used by Nazi Brownshirts during Hitler's rise to power in the early 20th century.

The Nazi party made it clear the mission of the Brownshirts was to obtain mastery of the streets. Official Nazi Brownshirt pamphlets stated that "possession of the streets is the key to power in the state — for this reason the [Brownshirts] marched and fought."

Those words share an eerie resemblance to the actions of the anti-Trump "resistance" movement of today.

What do you think? Scroll down to comment below.

That rally clip above is deeply disturbing to be fair, problem is, there is no getting away with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 20, 2017, 09:46:42 PM
Pence will be President sooner rather than later if he invokes the 25th amendment to the constitution section either four or five.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 20, 2017, 10:34:56 PM
Liberals often purport to be champions of minorities, but the way they treated 51-year-old Muslim non-Caucasian immigrant Asra Nomani after she admitted publicly that she had voted for GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump last year belies the idea completely.

"I was told 'eff off, go to hell' by a liberal feminist professor of peace and security studies at Georgetown University," Nomani revealed during a recent interview with The Daily Caller. "There were allegations that I was a traitor and had betrayed Muslims and women in America."

"That's when I really got my first window into the real intolerance of the tolerance-loving left," she added.

OOOOOHHHHHHH shit looney left, responses on a postcard phuuuulllleeeeaaaasssssee.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 20, 2017, 10:41:16 PM
Quote from: stew on February 20, 2017, 10:34:56 PM
Liberals often purport to be champions of minorities, but the way they treated 51-year-old Muslim non-Caucasian immigrant Asra Nomani after she admitted publicly that she had voted for GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump last year belies the idea completely.

"I was told 'eff off, go to hell' by a liberal feminist professor of peace and security studies at Georgetown University," Nomani revealed during a recent interview with The Daily Caller. "There were allegations that I was a traitor and had betrayed Muslims and women in America."

"That's when I really got my first window into the real intolerance of the tolerance-loving left," she added.

OOOOOHHHHHHH shit looney left, responses on a postcard phuuuulllleeeeaaaasssssee.

Been on facebook again stew (or is it the sauce)?? ;D

Post a bit of context, such as maybe a link to a story about this! Such as who exactly was abused and by whom. And then justify the bit in bold.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 20, 2017, 11:40:56 PM
I hope it's infowars they're my new favourite!!

Honourable mention for Milo the poor cratur it's all coming apart for Bannon's protégé he didn't realise that it's OK to not be PC and say what you think unless you think that certain kids are predators and trap paedophiles!!

I doubt he'll last too long at Breitbart and he'll do well to speak at the CPAC conference along with Comrade Trump!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 21, 2017, 12:18:36 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 20, 2017, 03:29:16 PM
QuoteYou have seen them in Nazi attire? Did they ever claim to be Nazis or utter a single word defending Hitler and his minnions?

Evidence please.

NOV 21, 2016 
"Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!"

That's how Richard B. Spencer saluted more than 200 attendees on Saturday, gathered at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C., for the annual conference of the National Policy Institute, which describes itself as "an independent organization dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of  people of European descent in the United States, and around the world."

Spencer has popularized the term "alt-right" to describe the movement he leads. Spencer has said his dream is "a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans," and has called for "peaceful ethnic cleansing."

For most of the day, a parade of speakers discussed their ideology in relatively anodyne terms, putting a presentable face on their agenda. But after dinner, when most journalists had already departed, Spencer rose and delivered a speech to his followers dripping with anti-Semitism, and leaving no doubt as to what he actually seeks. He referred to the mainstream media as "Lügenpresse," a term he said he was borrowing from "the original German"; the Nazis used the word to attack their critics in the press.

"America was until this past generation a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity," Spencer said. "It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us."   

The audience offered cheers, applause, and enthusiastic Nazi salutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk)

What a pile of rubbish

If you went into some Nation of Islam event, I guarantee you would hear some equally outrageous nonsense just on the other side of the divide.  Would the main stream media attempt to attach ALL Democrats to such rhetoric?   Not on your bloody life!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 21, 2017, 01:13:34 AM
Difference being that the chief executive of the fruit of Islam website is in no danger of being appointed to a vastly influential position in the white house. I'm not sure the spencer example works for the comparison in question, but there is no doubt that breitbart fostered the rise of the alt right, and also that it was a direct editorial decision of Brannon.

So if we are comparing this era to the germany of the 1930s, we may not know 100 percent who the brownshirts are until they put them on. We do have a fairly good idea who have bee n measured for uniforms, messers bannon and miller foremost amongst them.
And by the time they have the uniform on, it's usually too late.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2017, 01:46:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2017, 12:18:36 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 20, 2017, 03:29:16 PM
QuoteYou have seen them in Nazi attire? Did they ever claim to be Nazis or utter a single word defending Hitler and his minnions?

Evidence please.

NOV 21, 2016 
"Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!"

That's how Richard B. Spencer saluted more than 200 attendees on Saturday, gathered at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C., for the annual conference of the National Policy Institute, which describes itself as "an independent organization dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of  people of European descent in the United States, and around the world."

Spencer has popularized the term "alt-right" to describe the movement he leads. Spencer has said his dream is "a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans," and has called for "peaceful ethnic cleansing."

For most of the day, a parade of speakers discussed their ideology in relatively anodyne terms, putting a presentable face on their agenda. But after dinner, when most journalists had already departed, Spencer rose and delivered a speech to his followers dripping with anti-Semitism, and leaving no doubt as to what he actually seeks. He referred to the mainstream media as "Lügenpresse," a term he said he was borrowing from "the original German"; the Nazis used the word to attack their critics in the press.

"America was until this past generation a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity," Spencer said. "It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us."   

The audience offered cheers, applause, and enthusiastic Nazi salutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk)

What a pile of rubbish

If you went into some Nation of Islam event, I guarantee you would hear some equally outrageous nonsense just on the other side of the divide.  Would the main stream media attempt to attach ALL Democrats to such rhetoric?   Not on your bloody life!

Has the "mainstream media" attempted to link ALL Republicans to white supremacist rhetoric?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 21, 2017, 02:08:01 AM
Theyve definitely tried their damdest to link ALL THE ONES THEY DONT LIKE to the Alt Right movement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 21, 2017, 02:49:21 AM
Maybe they don't like them because of their links to white supremacists?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 03:11:31 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 21, 2017, 01:13:34 AM
Difference being that the chief executive of the fruit of Islam website is in no danger of being appointed to a vastly influential position in the white house. I'm not sure the spencer example works for the comparison in question, but there is no doubt that breitbart fostered the rise of the alt right, and also that it was a direct editorial decision of Brannon.

So if we are comparing this era to the germany of the 1930s, we may not know 100 percent who the brownshirts are until they put them on. We do have a fairly good idea who have bee n measured for uniforms, messers bannon and miller foremost amongst them.
And by the time they have the uniform on, it's usually too late.
https://twitter.com/BreitbartNews

Breitbart News

@BreitbartNews
News, commentary, and destruction of the political/media establishment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 21, 2017, 04:52:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2017, 02:08:01 AM
Theyve definitely tried their damdest to link ALL THE ONES THEY DONT LIKE to the Alt Right movement
[/quot

As usual whitey.. no specifics.. can you give us all the names of the ones "they" don't like and can you please be explicit as to whom "they" are? By the way I am not holding my breath for an answer.  You have yet to answer any of my questions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 21, 2017, 08:59:46 AM
Meanwhile real peoples lives really count   >:(

Texas has highest maternal mortality rate in developed world, study finds
Molly Redden
@mtredden
 
The rate of Texas women who died from complications related to pregnancy doubled from 2010 to 2014, a new study has found, for an estimated maternal mortality rate that is unmatched in any other state and the rest of the developed world.
 
The finding comes from a report, appearing in the September issue of the journal Obstetrics and Gynecology, that the maternal mortality rate in the United States increased between 2000 and 2014, even while the rest of the world succeeded in reducing its rate. Excluding California, where maternal mortality declined, and Texas, where it surged, the estimated number of maternal deaths per 100,000 births rose to 23.8 in 2014 from 18.8 in 2000 – or about 27%.

But the report singled out Texas for special concern, saying the doubling of mortality rates in a two-year period was hard to explain "in the absence of war, natural disaster, or severe economic upheaval".

From 2000 to the end of 2010, Texas's estimated maternal mortality rate hovered between 17.7 and 18.6 per 100,000 births. But after 2010, that rate had leaped to 33 deaths per 100,000, and in 2014 it was 35.8. Between 2010 and 2014, more than 600 women died for reasons related to their pregnancies.

No other state saw a comparable increase.

In the wake of the report, reproductive health advocates are blaming the increase on Republican-led budget cuts that decimated the ranks of Texas's reproductive healthcare clinics. In 2011, just as the spike began, the Texas state legislature cut $73.6m from the state's family planning budget of $111.5m. The two-thirds cut forced more than 80 family planning clinics to shut down across the state. The remaining clinics managed to provide services – such as low-cost or free birth control, cancer screenings and well-woman exams – to only half as many women as before.
 
At the same time, Texas eliminated all Planned Parenthood clinics – whether or not they provided abortion services – from the state program that provides poor women with preventive healthcare. Previously, Planned Parenthood clinics in Texas offered cancer screenings and contraception to more than 130,000 women.

In 2013, Texas restored funding for the family planning budget to original levels. But the healthcare providers who survived the initial cuts reported struggles to restore services to their original levels.

Indeed, the report said it was "puzzling" that Texas's maternal mortality rate rose only modestly from 2000 to 2010 before doubling between 2011 and 2012. The researchers, hailing from the University of Maryland, Boston University's school of public health and Stanford University's medical school, called for further study. But they noted that starting in 2011, Texas drastically reduced the number of women's health clinics within its borders.

The report comes just as public health advocates are raising questions about Texas's ability to prepare for the Zika virus, which is transmitted by a common species of mosquito and has been linked to severe birth defects. The World Health Organization has advised women in areas of local transmission to delay pregnancy.

Texas is one of several southern states where health officials say there is a risk of a local outbreak. But about half the state lacks ready access to OB-GYN care, making it difficult for women to obtain contraception or for pregnant women to confirm the health of their babies. Just this month, Texas's health department drew fire for allocating $1.6m of the $18m the state budgets for low-income women's family planning to an anti-abortion group that does not provide basic health services.

"There is a need to redouble efforts to prevent maternal deaths and improve maternity care for the 4 million US women giving birth each year," the authors said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 09:33:50 AM
It's not just Texas, Declan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8VFxeRRZ6Q

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/11/10/american-right-inside-the-sacrifice-zone/

"Hochschild chooses southwest Louisiana for her "journey into the heart of the right" because it represents the most graphic version of what she calls the Great Paradox:
Across the country, red states are poorer and have more teen mothers, more divorce, worse health, more obesity, more trauma-related deaths, more low-birth-weight babies, and lower school enrollment. On average, people in red states die five years earlier than people in blue states. Indeed, the gap in life expectancy between Louisiana (75.7) and Connecticut (80.8) is the same as that between the United States and Nicaragua.
The more conservative you are, the worse off you are likely to be and the sooner you are likely to die. This holds even on the county level, Hochschild finds, after an analysis of EPA data shows a correlation between political views and exposure to pollution. Yet the very people most damaged by conservative policies are most likely to vote for them.
Nowhere is the abuse as frightening as in Louisiana—with the exception, perhaps, of its neighbor to the east ("Thank God for Mississippi!" is the unofficial state motto). Louisiana is the second-poorest state and second-to-last in human development, which is a measure of individual freedom. The state's rate of fatal cancers is about 30 percent higher than the national average. For all its antifederalism, Louisiana is fourth in accepting government welfare, with 44 percent of its budget coming from Washington. (Many of Hochschild's Tea Party friends are beneficiaries of federal welfare programs.) Louisiana has the highest rate of death by gunfire (nearly double the national average), the highest rate of incarceration, and is the fifth-least-educated, reflecting the fact that it spends the fifth-least on education. It is sixth in the nation in generating hazardous waste, and third in importing it, since it makes a side business out of storing other states' trash.
Louisiana's governor is among the most powerful chief executives in the nation, a legacy that dates back to Huey Long's administration, and under Governor Bobby Jindal's dictatorship, between 2008 and 2016, the state's prospects declined with unprecedented severity. After he reduced corporate income taxes and expanded the exemptions granted to oil and gas companies, the state's revenue tumbled roughly $3 billion. He transferred $1.6 billion from public schools and hospitals to oil companies in the form of new tax incentives, under the theory that the presence of oil and a robust petrochemical infrastructure were not incentives enough. (The Louisiana Legislature is not only soaked with oil and gas lobbyists—during a recent session there were seventy for 144 legislators—but many lawmakers themselves hold industry jobs while serving in office.) Jindal fired 30,000 state employees, furloughed many others, cut education funding by nearly half, and sold off as many state-owned parking lots, farms, and hospitals as he could.
Despite these punishing cuts, he managed over the course of his administration to turn a $900 million budget surplus into a $1.6 billion deficit. National agencies downgraded the state's credit rating. The damage was so great that it helped to bring about one of the most unlikely election results in recent American history. Jindal's successor is John Bel Edwards, a Democrat—the only one to hold statewide office. Edwards is vehemently pro-life and agnostic about climate change, but he is determined to hold the oil and gas industry responsible for funding their share of coastal restoration. He currently enjoys a 62.5 percent approval rating. Almost a year into his first term, however, despite several emergency measures, the state remains in arrears.
The paradox that most baffles Hochschild is the question of environmental pollution. Even the most ideologically driven zealots don't want to drink poisoned water, inhale toxic gas, or become susceptible to record flooding. Yet southwestern Louisiana combines some of the nation's most fervently antiregulatory voters with its most toxic environmental conditions. It is a center of climate change denial despite the fact that its coast faces the highest rate of sea-level rise on the planet.
Hochschild discovers a walking personification of these ironies in a Cajun oil rig engineer named Mike Schaff. In August 2012, Schaff was entering his home in Bayou Corne, about seventy miles west of New Orleans, when he was jolted by a tremor. His concrete living room floor cracked apart. The sound, said a neighbor, was like a "garbage truck had dropped a dumpster."
More than a mile beneath the bayou, a Houston-based drilling company named Texas Brine had drilled into a vast salt dome, ignoring warnings from its own engineer, with the complicity of the state's useless Department of Environmental Quality. (In Louisiana, environmental regulators are, in the words of an EPA investigation, "expected to protect industry.") Texas Brine drills for salt, which it sells to chlorine manufacturers, but other companies had used sections of the salt dome to store chemicals and oil. Texas Brine drilled too closely to an oil deposit and the structure ruptured, sucking down forest and causing seismic damage to the homes of 350 nearby residents. Officials began referring to Schaff's neighborhood as the "sacrifice zone."
Texas Brine refused to take responsibility for the accident. It claimed that earthquakes were common in the area (they are not) before blaming a different salt dome tenant for the collapse. If that wasn't enough, Texas Brine asked the state for permission to dump toxic wastewater into the very sinkhole it created. Jindal did not visit the site for seven months, though it is only forty miles south of the capital. Four years later the sinkhole is 750 feet deep at its center and has grown to thirty-five acres. Methane and other gases bubble up periodically. Residents who defied evacuation orders avoided lighting matches."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 21, 2017, 11:39:07 AM
Republicans are to blame for EVERYTHING.  Democrats and puppies are the victims here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 21, 2017, 11:40:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2017, 11:39:07 AM
Republicans are to blame for EVERYTHING.  Democrats and puppies are the victims here.

You're starting to get it . . . don't forget to say a wee prayer for your poor snowflake friend Milo!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2017, 11:47:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2017, 02:08:01 AM
Theyve definitely tried their damdest to link ALL THE ONES THEY DONT LIKE to the Alt Right movement

Such as?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2017, 11:56:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2017, 11:39:07 AM
Republicans are to blame for EVERYTHING.  Democrats and puppies are the victims here.

Who's saying that?

Stop whining and make your case!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 21, 2017, 12:12:26 PM
QuoteRepublicans are to blame for EVERYTHING.  Democrats and puppies are the victims here.

Nah Whitey I'd never say that

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN AMERICAN
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised.
All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.
In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.
Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joes employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.
If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.
It's noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.
Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.
Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.
He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.
Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.
Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 21, 2017, 02:06:23 PM
Joe was paying $15000 per year for healthcare now he's paying $26,000 with a $7,000 deductible

Joes property taxes have gone from $3500 per year to $6400 per year and yet his school district still has $10 M in unfunded pension liabilities

Joe pays $50,000 per year for EACH of his kids to attend college

Joes accounting and legal fees will increase by $150,000 this year at his small business directly due to compliance with new regulations (even though he works in an already super regulated industry)

Joe and his buddies keeps on plugging away because they have no other option
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2017, 02:06:23 PM
Joe was paying $15000 per year for healthcare now he's paying $26,000 with a $7,000 deductible

Joes property taxes have gone from $3500 per year to $6400 per year and yet his school district still has $10 M in unfunded pension liabilities

Joe pays $50,000 per year for EACH of his kids to attend college

Joes accounting and legal fees will increase by $150,000 this year at his small business directly due to compliance with new regulations (even though he works in an already super regulated industry)

Joe and his buddies keeps on plugging away because they have no other option
Joe votes GOP because he thinks they will help him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOuf69G7AQU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 21, 2017, 02:34:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 21, 2017, 11:40:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2017, 11:39:07 AM
Republicans are to blame for EVERYTHING.  Democrats and puppies are the victims here.

You're starting to get it . . . don't forget to say a wee prayer for your poor snowflake friend Milo!!

You love the word snowflake dont you kid and if you think the republicans are to blame for every you are a bigger moron than what I took you for!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 21, 2017, 02:55:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2017, 02:06:23 PM
Joe was paying $15000 per year for healthcare now he's paying $26,000 with a $7,000 deductible

Joes property taxes have gone from $3500 per year to $6400 per year and yet his school district still has $10 M in unfunded pension liabilities

Joe pays $50,000 per year for EACH of his kids to attend college

Joes accounting and legal fees will increase by $150,000 this year at his small business directly due to compliance with new regulations (even though he works in an already super regulated industry)

Joe and his buddies keeps on plugging away because they have no other option

Why doesn't Joe go sell crack like [censored on legal advice]? He can then father multiple children by multiple mothers and get the government to pick up the tab. It ain't no biggie.

Following laws is for suckers. Welcome to the world of the democrats.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on February 21, 2017, 03:00:27 PM
This is very good. Donald speech slowed down. Imagine the scene. 3am. In the pub. Drunk old guy has you cornered and bending your ear about politics :)

https://www.facebook.com/rivera.joe/videos/10155608570427069/ (https://www.facebook.com/rivera.joe/videos/10155608570427069/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 21, 2017, 03:25:50 PM
Quote from: stew on February 21, 2017, 02:34:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 21, 2017, 11:40:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2017, 11:39:07 AM
Republicans are to blame for EVERYTHING.  Democrats and puppies are the victims here.

You're starting to get it . . . don't forget to say a wee prayer for your poor snowflake friend Milo!!

You love the word snowflake dont you kid and if you think the republicans are to blame for every you are a bigger moron than what I took you for!

You love calling people 'kid' even when they're not kids but if you think the GOP aren't gonna take America into the depths then well no I'm pretty sure I've a good handle on how much of a moron you are. . . kid!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 21, 2017, 03:44:10 PM
QuoteThis is very good. Donald speech slowed down. Imagine the scene. 3am. In the pub. Drunk old guy has you cornered and bending your ear about politics :)

https://www.facebook.com/rivera.joe/videos/10155608570427069/

Love it AZ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on February 21, 2017, 04:13:34 PM
Donald is spending more time on the golf course than he is in the Oval office. Apparently he has played golf on 6 days of the 30 he has been in office. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2017, 04:33:02 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 21, 2017, 04:13:34 PM
Donald is spending more time on the golf course than he is in the Oval office. Apparently he has played golf on 6 days of the 230 he has been in office.

That should get Rush Limbaugh and Hannity and the boys talking. After all, Obama's golf outings and general "laziness" were a big concern for them and their followers. 

http://obamagolfcounter.com/ (http://obamagolfcounter.com/)

According to that "concerned citizen" site, Obama tallied up 306 golf outings in his eight years, which amounts to golf every nine or ten days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2017, 04:35:59 PM
Personally, I wouldn't begrudge ANY president their relaxation time. They're ALWAYS on the clock. It's not a job you can go home and forget about at five o'clock. You have to get a chance to wind down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2017, 05:18:26 PM
On the other hand, I don't like hypocrisy, although is it really a surprise when it comes to Trump?

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-obama-golf-235217 (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-obama-golf-235217)

Donald Trump regularly assailed President Barack Obama for playing golf, then spent the first weekends of his own presidency doing just that. He attacked Obama for using Air Force One to campaign, and did it over the weekend just a month into the job. He mocked Obama for heading out of Washington at taxpayer expense, but appears to have no qualms about doing so himself.

One month in, Trump is using the presidency to boost his political and personal goals — not breaking laws or ethics rules, experts say, but ignoring his past criticisms and vows.

"Donald Trump has zero worry about contradicting himself, because he does it all day long," said Douglas Brinkley, a presidential historian who has met with Trump. "He figures he can get away with it because he does it all the time. There is no worry about it. He says one thing and then says another, and his supporters don't hold it against him."

The new president has taken three weekend getaways in the first month of office, spending millions of taxpayer dollars in Secret Service protection and about 25 percent of his time away from the White House. The Secret Service has also paid for security for expensive business trips for his sons' business ventures to foreign countries.

The actions seem to fly in the face of how he mocked Obama's travel. "President Barack Obama's vacation is costing taxpayers millions of dollars — unbelievable!" he wrote in one of many tweets criticizing Obama for taking a trip.

Trump has headed to the golf course at least six times since he took office, another favorite criticism against Obama. Trump mocked Obama more than two dozen times for golfing amid problems in the White House

"Can you believe that, with all of the problems and difficulties facing the U.S., President Obama spent the day playing golf. Worse than Carter," Trump said in 2014.

Trump said last August that if he became president, he wouldn't have time for golf. "I'm going to be working for you, I'm not going to have time to go play golf," he said at an event in Virginia.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 21, 2017, 05:19:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2017, 04:35:59 PM
Personally, I wouldn't begrudge ANY president their relaxation time. They're ALWAYS on the clock. It's not a job you can go home and forget about at five o'clock. You have to get a chance to wind down.

Are you not already home?

Okay I'll get my coat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 05:33:44 PM
http://time.com/4675860/donald-trump-fake-news-attacks/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:12:35 PM
Breitbart have kicked Milo out too.

Four days ago he was going mainstream with a sweet book deal, a Bill Mayer appearance and the keynote speech at CPAC, flying high after the idiots at Berkeley.

Leslie Jones must be having a nice chuckle of satisfaction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:13:03 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 21, 2017, 05:19:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2017, 04:35:59 PM
Personally, I wouldn't begrudge ANY president their relaxation time. They're ALWAYS on the clock. It's not a job you can go home and forget about at five o'clock. You have to get a chance to wind down.

Are you not already home?

Okay I'll get my coat.
:)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 21, 2017, 08:17:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:12:35 PM
Leslie Jones must be having a nice chuckle of satisfaction.

That's about the only laugh she'll ever get in her lifetime.
Dreadful comedian/comedienne/other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 05:33:44 PM
http://time.com/4675860/donald-trump-fake-news-attacks/

Great piece!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 09:19:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:12:35 PM
Breitbart have kicked Milo out too.

Four days ago he was going mainstream with a sweet book deal, a Bill Mayer appearance and the keynote speech at CPAC, flying high after the idiots at Berkeley.

Leslie Jones must be having a nice chuckle of satisfaction.
I wonder who brought him back down to earth. Was it the feminist collective? Or the trans bathroom posse?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 09:22:54 PM
Caroline O. ‏@RVAwonk  22 h
Breitbart was too busy writing about a fake pedophilia/child trafficking ring ("pizzagate") to notice the real thing right in front of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on February 22, 2017, 01:51:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 05:33:44 PM
http://time.com/4675860/donald-trump-fake-news-attacks/

Great piece!

Super piece. The media thing really irks me. It's been pure shite for a decade now - mostly (not wholly) on the side of the right wing propaganda machine - and now the Donald has turned that fact on its head - and got folks to believe that all regular sources of news are part of the problem. It isn't true and it's one of the scariest things about his tenure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2017, 04:05:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 05:33:44 PM
http://time.com/4675860/donald-trump-fake-news-attacks/

Great piece!

Haha...Time Magazine...you mean the people who spread a false rumour that Trump had removed MLKs bust from the Oval Office on his very first day. Who gives a fvck that they have to say

Don't give me the usual $hite that it was a mistake and that it was corrected shortly afterwards and that Spicer accepted his apology.    It was a very very dangerous thing to do given the powder keg that currently exists. That "reporter" should have had his ass fired out on the street

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 22, 2017, 04:31:22 AM
Well, you clearly saw the word "Time" and didn't bother your ass reading it.  It was the text of a speech delivered by Bret Stephens, a conservative Wall Street Journal reporter, as part of the Daniel Pearl memorial.  And all you can focus on is a news item reporting the removal of the MLK bust from the Oval Office, a report that was quickly corrected.  Do yourself a favor and read the Stephens lecture.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2017, 05:53:41 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on February 22, 2017, 01:51:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 05:33:44 PM
http://time.com/4675860/donald-trump-fake-news-attacks/

Great piece!

Super piece. The media thing really irks me. It's been pure shite for a decade now - mostly (not wholly) on the side of the right wing propaganda machine - and now the Donald has turned that fact on its head - and got folks to believe that all regular sources of news are part of the problem. It isn't true and it's one of the scariest things about his tenure.

Bannon is the one behind it. The only reliable media are Fox and Breitbart who dutifully sténograph whatever the government is saying.

I have a feeling that the institutions of the US are stronger than Bannon thinks they are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2017, 07:44:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:12:35 PM
Breitbart have kicked Milo out too.

Four days ago he was going mainstream with a sweet book deal, a Bill Mayer appearance and the keynote speech at CPAC, flying high after the idiots at Berkeley.

Leslie Jones must be having a nice chuckle of satisfaction.
Breitbart said Yiannopolous comments were unacceptable. Anti semitism , race baiting , misogyny, trans hatred etc are grand however..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2017, 11:27:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2017, 04:05:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2017, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 05:33:44 PM
http://time.com/4675860/donald-trump-fake-news-attacks/

Great piece!

Haha...Time Magazine...you mean the people who spread a false rumour that Trump had removed MLKs bust from the Oval Office on his very first day. Who gives a fvck that they have to say

Don't give me the usual $hite that it was a mistake and that it was corrected shortly afterwards and that Spicer accepted his apology.    It was a very very dangerous thing to do given the powder keg that currently exists. That "reporter" should have had his ass fired out on the street

1.  It was written by a conservative, Bret Stephens, who is a WSJ editor and Pulitzer Prize winner, and it was delivered at an event honouring Daniel Pearl.
2. You're always claiming that you can't stand Trump, all the while posting little except whining about the "mainstream press" and liberals calling Trump out on his nonsense and predicting that "Trump will do fine", whatever that means. Yet, here is a piece from a principled conservative, who has not compromised himself by latching on to Trump, and you don't even have the interest to actually read what he has to say.
3. If you are so worried about the "powder keg" that could have been detonated by the mistaken MLK tweet, then how come you are silent on the divisive lies and provocation coming from Trump and the White House on a daily basis? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2017, 12:32:36 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 22, 2017, 04:31:22 AM
Well, you clearly saw the word "Time" and didn't bother your ass reading it.  It was the text of a speech delivered by Bret Stephens, a conservative Wall Street Journal reporter, as part of the Daniel Pearl memorial.  And all you can focus on is a news item reporting the removal of the MLK bust from the Oval Office, a report that was quickly corrected.  Do yourself a favor and read the Stephens lecture.

Time Magazine has about the same credibility as the Daily Mail....I don't care what article is written by whom....I take the whole lot with one big grain of salt.


If I started posting up opinion pieces  from Fox News and the Daily telegraph, you guys wouldn't be
long calling me out....and rightly so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2017, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2017, 12:32:36 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 22, 2017, 04:31:22 AM
Well, you clearly saw the word "Time" and didn't bother your ass reading it.  It was the text of a speech delivered by Bret Stephens, a conservative Wall Street Journal reporter, as part of the Daniel Pearl memorial.  And all you can focus on is a news item reporting the removal of the MLK bust from the Oval Office, a report that was quickly corrected.  Do yourself a favor and read the Stephens lecture.

Time Magazine has about the same credibility as the Daily Mail....I don't care what article is written by whom....I take the whole lot with one big grain of salt.


If I started posting up opinion pieces  from Fox News and the Daily telegraph, you guys wouldn't be
long calling me out....and rightly so

Bollocks, it would not be rightly so.

But out of interest, just where do you go for your news?

Because by what you're claiming here (not that I believe you really believe what you're claiming), there are NO news sources that should be taken seriously.

The NY Times publishes opinion pieces by Republican politicians all the time. Do you dismiss what THEY have to say purely because the placed their piece on the NY Times editorial page? Would an article by Ted Cruz be MORE credible appearing in the WSJ than the NY Times, even if was the exact same article?

Face it, you got caught dismissing out of hand a well written piece by someone who, going by your repeated claims that you're a conservative who doesn't like Trump (although you never seem to actually criticize him), you should probably agree with, based on nothing else except the publication that published the article, and all because you've latched onto the MLK tweet as a support for your claims that the media is being unfair to Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2017, 01:28:38 PM
https://psmag.com/on-the-milo-bus-with-the-lost-boys-of-americas-new-right-629a77e87986
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2017, 03:01:00 PM
GOP former chairman on fake news, pissing off Fox FFS. It's not just Bannon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5RRUZynq80

Presumably Whitey, Foxy Loxy , Chicken Licken , Stew etc now believe that Fox too is Faux
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2017, 08:14:09 PM
Quinnipac poll: majorities say Trump does not share their values (60%), have good leadership skills (55%), or care about average Americans (53%)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2017, 09:13:06 PM
Spicer words

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_H_wiI46D8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2017, 01:23:56 AM
(http://www.truthrevolt.org/sites/default/files/images/kP4Yax1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 23, 2017, 03:05:21 AM
Eamonn, I've seen this chart all over the place, but do you know it's source?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 23, 2017, 03:46:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2017, 03:01:00 PM
GOP former chairman on fake news, pissing off Fox FFS. It's not just Bannon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5RRUZynq80

Presumably Whitey, Foxy Loxy , Chicken Licken , Stew etc now believe that Fox too is Faux

I trust no news source, neither left nor right because they have all proven themselves agenda driven knackers devoid of journalistic integrity.

The closest I can get to decency and fairness surprisingly is the Chinese news station and auntie beeb.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 23, 2017, 04:04:55 AM
Al Jazeera is similar to been some obvious bias but pretty solid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 04:54:51 AM
CNN:Angry voters erupt at Republican town hall in Arkansas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVNlJa9BSVY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffg31Keox4U
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 23, 2017, 12:16:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 04:54:51 AM
CNN:Angry voters erupt at Republican town hall in Arkansas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVNlJa9BSVY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffg31Keox4U
[/quote

A teacher has to work three jobs to be able to afford healthcare, wtf is wrong with this picture?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2017, 12:46:33 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 23, 2017, 04:04:55 AM
Al Jazeera is similar to been some obvious bias but pretty solid

I've only seen the channel once, and that was on the Sky package when I was home in Donegal six or seven years ago.

They had a detailed report of the mundane everyday problems facing Palestinians in the West Bank, laid out in a matter of fact way. Stuff you'd be strung up for showing on US television!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 01:29:18 PM
Quote from: stew on February 23, 2017, 12:16:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 04:54:51 AM
CNN:Angry voters erupt at Republican town hall in Arkansas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVNlJa9BSVY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffg31Keox4U
[/quote

A teacher has to work three jobs to be able to afford healthcare, wtf is wrong with this picture?
Trump love seems to be wearing off
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 23, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
QuoteA teacher has to work three jobs to be able to afford healthcare, wtf is wrong with this picture?

On my first visit to the stated in the late 80's I was amazed to discover that teachers,nurses, people in public service routinely had extra jobs to keep afloat and to have any extras and that was when they had their health insurance covered as part of the job.

One of the reasons why I never stayed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2017, 02:24:52 PM
Health insurance costs have been far outstripping wage increases and overall inflation for years.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2480470 (http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2480470)
(http://jamanetwork.com/data/Journals/JAMA/934829/m_jig150008fa.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
Jump on the Norwegian Fares:

Family of 4 Return, each with a checked bag, in August for under 2K

Same fares on Aer Lingus last year were close to $4K
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 02:56:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2017, 02:24:52 PM
Health insurance costs have been far outstripping wage increases and overall inflation for years.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2480470 (http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2480470)
(http://jamanetwork.com/data/Journals/JAMA/934829/m_jig150008fa.png)

Great graphic

US Healthcare is 17.1% of GDP increasing at 4% a year in a low growth economy. It'll be 20% of GDP in a few years.
Between healthcare and prisons the US spends one quarter of its money.

It's such a mess
No wonder people in Arkansas are pissed off 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 23, 2017, 02:59:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
Jump on the Norwegian Fares:

Family of 4 Return, each with a checked bag, in August for under 2K

Same fares on Aer Lingus last year were close to $4K

Probably won't let you in though . . . even if you have a Visa!! Is it even worth the risk unless you have to?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/20/british-muslim-teacher-denied-entry-to-us-on-school-trip
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2017, 03:02:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
Jump on the Norwegian Fares:

Family of 4 Return, each with a checked bag, in August for under 2K

Same fares on Aer Lingus last year were close to $4K

That's an amazing deal!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 23, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
http://europe.newsweek.com/sebastian-gorka-white-house-terrorism-adviser-angry-call-559805?rm=eu (http://europe.newsweek.com/sebastian-gorka-white-house-terrorism-adviser-angry-call-559805?rm=eu)

This is gas - Trump terrorism adviser calls critic to rant, at length, about his mean tweets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on February 23, 2017, 05:13:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 23, 2017, 02:59:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
Jump on the Norwegian Fares:

Family of 4 Return, each with a checked bag, in August for under 2K

Same fares on Aer Lingus last year were close to $4K

Probably won't let you in though . . . even if you have a Visa!! Is it even worth the risk unless you have to?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/20/british-muslim-teacher-denied-entry-to-us-on-school-trip

Flew home 2 weeks ago, no problems.

That is a serious deal on flights though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 23, 2017, 05:41:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
Jump on the Norwegian Fares:

Family of 4 Return, each with a checked bag, in August for under 2K

Same fares on Aer Lingus last year were close to $4K

From Cork, Shannon and Belfast.  Ryanair type landing as in arriving at an airport in the vicinity of the stated city but could be miles away that city. 

Hope they make a go of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2017, 06:08:49 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 23, 2017, 03:05:21 AM
Eamonn, I've seen this chart all over the place, but do you know it's source?

No. Doesn't really matter though. My only disagreement is I'd move Fox News down a little.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2017, 06:08:54 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 23, 2017, 05:41:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
Jump on the Norwegian Fares:

Family of 4 Return, each with a checked bag, in August for under 2K

Same fares on Aer Lingus last year were close to $4K

From Cork, Shannon and Belfast.  Ryanair type landing as in arriving at an airport in the vicinity of the stated city but could be miles away that city. 

Hope they make a go of it.

Theyre already after going up a bit....cheapest ones must have gotten booked. Still a few days for $65 one way

Providence would be pretty convenient for most people in Boston.....myself included...easy in easy out no headaches

Stewart, in my estimation,  would be a royal pain in the hole from NYC.

Added benefit of these remote airports is that it doesnt cost $45 day to park.....onsite shuttle parking usually about $6 per day so for a 10 day trip youd be almost $400 better off
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2017, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: stew on February 23, 2017, 12:16:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 04:54:51 AM
CNN:Angry voters erupt at Republican town hall in Arkansas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVNlJa9BSVY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffg31Keox4U

A teacher has to work three jobs to be able to afford healthcare, wtf is wrong with this picture?

Since when were conservatives worried about teachers, affordable health care or people working multiple jobs?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2017, 06:11:40 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 23, 2017, 04:04:55 AM
Al Jazeera is similar to been some obvious bias but pretty solid

It's a great news source. Not afraid to point out shortcomings of the US, but then it makes a change to see what happens on the receiving end of air strikes as opposed to just the romantic pictures of jets taking off in the sunset.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2017, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 23, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
QuoteA teacher has to work three jobs to be able to afford healthcare, wtf is wrong with this picture?

On my first visit to the stated in the late 80's I was amazed to discover that teachers,nurses, people in public service routinely had extra jobs to keep afloat and to have any extras and that was when they had their health insurance covered as part of the job.

One of the reasons why I never stayed

"The States" is a term commonly used, but in reality its like 50 different countries with vast disparities in wealth and wages and the cost of living.  There can even hige disparities in a small state like MA

Public school teachers make a very good living in MA and have great benefits and pensions


http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/bottom_line/2016/05/the-towns-and-cities-with-the-best-paid-teachers.html


"Public school teachers earned an average of $74,737 in the commonwealth last year, with some 14 school districts posting an average annual salary of more than $90,000, according to recently updated state data. Two of the 317 school districts analyzed — Concord-Carlisle and Sherborn — posted average pay of over $100,000 per teaching position."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 06:25:28 PM
Norm Ornstein says the GOP is batshit crazy. So is the Tory party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 23, 2017, 07:27:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 06:25:28 PM
Norm Ornstein says the GOP is batshit crazy. So is the Tory party.

Its not, Norm is wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
Quote from: stew on February 23, 2017, 07:27:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 06:25:28 PM
Norm Ornstein says the GOP is batshit crazy. So is the Tory party.

Its not, Norm is wrong.
The tea party purged a lot of moderates so last year's race included fruitcakes like Cruz and Rubio. The new government includes Nazis like Bannon and Miller who will be defended by Priebus .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 08:22:55 PM
Bernie Sanders
‏@SenSanders  18 feb.

"It's important to remember that we not only have massive wealth and income inequality, but a power structure which protects that inequality."

And the GOP is part of that power structure, Koch sucking

instead of standing up for its voters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffg31Keox4U
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 08:29:20 PM
David Frum

‏@davidfrum  1 h
Reince says Trump administration is about taxes & regulation. Bannon says it's about overturning the global order. Nuances.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 23, 2017, 08:41:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 08:29:20 PM
David Frum

‏@davidfrum  1 h
Reince says Trump administration is about taxes & regulation. Bannon says it's about overturning the global order. Nuances.

In fairness the current world order is fucked, a new world order might not be a bad thing, just not trumps new world order!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 23, 2017, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
Quote from: stew on February 23, 2017, 07:27:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2017, 06:25:28 PM
Norm Ornstein says the GOP is batshit crazy. So is the Tory party.

Its not, Norm is wrong.
The tea party purged a lot of moderates so last year's race included fruitcakes like Cruz and Rubio. The new government includes Nazis like Bannon and Miller who will be defended by Priebus .

You watch too much msnbc

Nazis are all gone kid, dead I tell ye, the reich has been dead since 1945.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 12:30:40 AM
Quote from: stew on February 23, 2017, 08:41:00 PM
a new world order might not be a bad thing,

Such as...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2017, 12:36:46 AM
Boehner (the man who oversaw more than FIFTY House votes for repeal) reckons the GOP WON'T repeal and replace Obamacare. He reckons they'll keep most of it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/23/the-audacious-honesty-of-john-boehner/?utm_term=.4d2e35ba52c2#comments (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/23/the-audacious-honesty-of-john-boehner/?utm_term=.4d2e35ba52c2#comments)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 02:16:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 12:36:46 AM
Boehner (the man who oversaw more than FIFTY House votes for repeal) reckons the GOP WON'T repeal and replace Obamacare. He reckons they'll keep most of it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/23/the-audacious-honesty-of-john-boehner/?utm_term=.4d2e35ba52c2#comments (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/23/the-audacious-honesty-of-john-boehner/?utm_term=.4d2e35ba52c2#comments)
He's a lobbyist now.
The GOP is afraid of its voters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 24, 2017, 07:30:20 AM
On the transgender bathroom issue -this lad sums up the personal element of it -impressive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPv9Hn1l-s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPv9Hn1l-s)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 07:40:38 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 24, 2017, 07:30:20 AM
On the transgender bathroom issue -this lad sums up the personal element of it -impressive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPv9Hn1l-s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPv9Hn1l-s)
The trans toilet issues is typical GOP deflection. Get the Base wound up over something trivial while the real work of pa uprising them goes on in the background. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 24, 2017, 07:41:12 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5Uk1g5VMAAnIyQ.jpg:large)

White House claiming Bannon NSC elevation & DNI/CJCS demotion due to faulty cut & paste job. Well oiled machine alright
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 08:59:53 AM
I think Bannon is nuts. He was editor of the equivalent of a more extremist News of the World and he thinks he can bend the US to his will.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 24, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 24, 2017, 07:41:12 AM
White House claiming Bannon NSC elevation & DNI/CJCS demotion due to faulty cut & paste job. Well oiled machine alright

Wow! Barely 24 hours from TUSLA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 24, 2017, 10:40:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 08:59:53 AM
I think Bannon is nuts. He was editor of the equivalent of a more extremist News of the World and he thinks he can bend the US to his will.

A triumph of the will, if you will.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on February 24, 2017, 10:58:10 AM
QuoteWow! Barely 24 hours from TUSLA.

:) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on February 24, 2017, 12:18:44 PM
Very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zugy2rkSM7g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zugy2rkSM7g)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

One guy clearly unprepared for what an interviewer was going to throw at him doesn't render the concerns over the rights of transgender people "batshit crazy". Its a good job you don't support Trump or you'd be folded up in the foetal position over the performances of his spokespeople! Although to be fair, they are mostly tasked with defending the indefensible and the illogical. ;)

And Carlson's "points" about Obama only issuing the guidance last year, as well as the race-changing analogy, were laughable.

It is interesting how THIS is now a states' rights issue, whereas we also heard from Spicer yesterday that federal marijuana laws take precedence over those of any states which have legalized it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 24, 2017, 02:22:55 PM
So we're all hoping that Trump gets impeached and Pence gets in but is he also a ****??

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/pences-claims-aca-and-jobs-fall-apart-under-scrutiny
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:32:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2017, 02:22:55 PM
So we're all hoping that Trump gets impeached and Pence gets in but is he also a ****??

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/pences-claims-aca-and-jobs-fall-apart-under-scrutiny


That graph is a little simplistic and doesn't by itself disprove what Pence is saying. Looking at that, the passage and implementation of the ACA is clearly correlated with jobs recovery, but that doesn't mean there's any causitive effect or any real connection at all. And the rate of job growth COULD have been depressed by the passage of the act.

Now, I'm pretty confident that Pence doesn't have any data either showing that the ACA had any real effect on job losses or growth rate.

Perhaps whitey or one of the other boys have some info?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 24, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips


Jaw dropping stuff from the looney left, lack of accountability, inability to answer many questions without deflecting, making shit up, like 'settled science' That was a bad a beating as I have ever seen on a news show like that, it was incredible, I even felt bad for the stupid bastard!

I am a father of two girls and would not want males walking into the bathrooms of my daughters claiming they were female.

As for real transgender kids, there should be federal funding to supply a bathroom at every school to make sure they are taken care of.

Foxcommander thanks for putting that up, it illustrates perfectly how fucked up the left is, damn I despise the far left with all my heart, and f**k the far right too for that matter.

Lets meet in the middle people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:42:33 PM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips


Jaw dropping stuff from the looney left, lack of accountability, inability to answer many questions without deflecting, making shit up, like 'settled science' That was a bad a beating as I have ever seen on a news show like that, it was incredible, I even felt bad for the stupid b**tard!

I am a father of two girls and would not want males walking into the bathrooms of my daughters claiming they were female.

As for real transgender kids, there should be federal funding to supply a bathroom at every school to make sure they are taken care of.

Foxcommander thanks for putting that up, it illustrates perfectly how fucked up the left is, damn I despise the far left with all my heart, and f**k the far right too for that matter.

Lets meet in the middle people.

So on the one hand, you want federal funding to take care of the bathroom needs of transgender kids, and on the other, the left is fucked up, looney and dishonest for advocating for them. And you want to "meet in the middle".

All right then!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ashman on February 24, 2017, 02:44:38 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2017, 02:22:55 PM
So we're all hoping that Trump gets impeached and Pence gets in but is he also a ****??

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/pences-claims-aca-and-jobs-fall-apart-under-scrutiny

Do "we" ??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

One guy clearly unprepared for what an interviewer was going to throw at him doesn't render the concerns over the rights of transgender people "batshit crazy". Its a good job you don't support Trump or you'd be folded up in the foetal position over the performances of his spokespeople! Although to be fair, they are mostly tasked with defending the indefensible and the illogical. ;)

And Carlson's "points" about Obama only issuing the guidance last year, as well as the race-changing analogy, were laughable.

It is interesting how THIS is now a states' rights issue, whereas we also heard from Spicer yesterday that federal marijuana laws take precedence over those of any states which have legalized it.

He is a spokesperson for the Democrats on the subject, not someone they picked randomly from the streets.
He hardly expects to be going on Fox news and having a cuddly interview like Don Lemming/CNN would give him.
Made an absolute show of himself and the Democrats.
The race-changing analogy is just as valid, ask Elizabeth Warren on the subject (Fake Pocahontas). Maybe she'll agree with Tucker to save her own skin (pun intended).


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 24, 2017, 03:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

One guy clearly unprepared for what an interviewer was going to throw at him doesn't render the concerns over the rights of transgender people "batshit crazy". Its a good job you don't support Trump or you'd be folded up in the foetal position over the performances of his spokespeople! Although to be fair, they are mostly tasked with defending the indefensible and the illogical. ;)

And Carlson's "points" about Obama only issuing the guidance last year, as well as the race-changing analogy, were laughable.

It is interesting how THIS is now a states' rights issue, whereas we also heard from Spicer yesterday that federal marijuana laws take precedence over those of any states which have legalized it.

He is a spokesperson for the Democrats on the subject, not someone they picked randomly from the streets.
He hardly expects to be going on Fox news and having a cuddly interview like Don Lemming/CNN would give him.
Made an absolute show of himself and the Democrats.
The race-changing analogy is just as valid, ask Elizabeth Warren on the subject (Fake Pocahontas). Maybe she'll agree with Tucker to save her own skin (pun intended).

Republican plant . . . probably put there by Trump himself!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 24, 2017, 03:46:52 PM
It's getting ridiculous really . . . he doesn't want the media using un-named sources:

(http://i.imgur.com/m6mrvJl.png:small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 04:33:33 PM
This will never get old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 04:33:33 PM
This will never get old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

Inspirational. Go Donald.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 04:49:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2017, 03:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

One guy clearly unprepared for what an interviewer was going to throw at him doesn't render the concerns over the rights of transgender people "batshit crazy". Its a good job you don't support Trump or you'd be folded up in the foetal position over the performances of his spokespeople! Although to be fair, they are mostly tasked with defending the indefensible and the illogical. ;)

And Carlson's "points" about Obama only issuing the guidance last year, as well as the race-changing analogy, were laughable.

It is interesting how THIS is now a states' rights issue, whereas we also heard from Spicer yesterday that federal marijuana laws take precedence over those of any states which have legalized it.

He is a spokesperson for the Democrats on the subject, not someone they picked randomly from the streets.
He hardly expects to be going on Fox news and having a cuddly interview like Don Lemming/CNN would give him.
Made an absolute show of himself and the Democrats.
The race-changing analogy is just as valid, ask Elizabeth Warren on the subject (Fake Pocahontas). Maybe she'll agree with Tucker to save her own skin (pun intended).

Republican plant . . . probably put there by Trump himself!!

Hahahahahah. Not a plant. Here's some more on the chap. If he was in charge of spin no wonder Hillary lost.

http://nypost.com/2015/11/04/hillarys-new-spin-doctor-was-arrested-for-drugs-2-years-ago/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2017, 04:51:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:32:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2017, 02:22:55 PM
So we're all hoping that Trump gets impeached and Pence gets in but is he also a ****??

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/pences-claims-aca-and-jobs-fall-apart-under-scrutiny


That graph is a little simplistic and doesn't by itself disprove what Pence is saying. Looking at that, the passage and implementation of the ACA is clearly correlated with jobs recovery, but that doesn't mean there's any causitive effect or any real connection at all. And the rate of job growth COULD have been depressed by the passage of the act.

Now, I'm pretty confident that Pence doesn't have any data either showing that the ACA had any real effect on job losses or growth rate.

Perhaps whitey or one of the other boys have some info?

I'm sure there's info out there...I will take a look.....MSNBC wouldn't be entirely unbiased when it comes to this stuff.

Anecdotally....all of my clients are self employed small business people.  Several have seen their healthcare premiums rise from approx $15K per annum to $26K per annum and now have a $6K deductible.  While it probably didn't "cost" any jobs in their office, they sure as hell aren't hiring anyone.

One guys assistant retired, and instead of hiring a new assistant his wife is now working with him part time (unpaid). While he will probably be growing at the same pace, his bottom line will increase substantially....he was paying her $75K plus benefits
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2017, 05:12:40 PM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips


Jaw dropping stuff from the looney left, lack of accountability, inability to answer many questions without deflecting, making shit up, like 'settled science' That was a bad a beating as I have ever seen on a news show like that, it was incredible, I even felt bad for the stupid b**tard!

I am a father of two girls and would not want males walking into the bathrooms of my daughters claiming they were female.

As for real transgender kids, there should be federal funding to supply a bathroom at every school to make sure they are taken care of.

Foxcommander thanks for putting that up, it illustrates perfectly how fucked up the left is, damn I despise the far left with all my heart, and f**k the far right too for that matter.

Lets meet in the middle people.

Shaun King, one of the leaders of the BLM movement is white and has "self identified" as black as far as I know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2017, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

One guy clearly unprepared for what an interviewer was going to throw at him doesn't render the concerns over the rights of transgender people "batshit crazy". Its a good job you don't support Trump or you'd be folded up in the foetal position over the performances of his spokespeople! Although to be fair, they are mostly tasked with defending the indefensible and the illogical. ;)

And Carlson's "points" about Obama only issuing the guidance last year, as well as the race-changing analogy, were laughable.

It is interesting how THIS is now a states' rights issue, whereas we also heard from Spicer yesterday that federal marijuana laws take precedence over those of any states which have legalized it.

He is a spokesperson for the Democrats on the subject, not someone they picked randomly from the streets.
He hardly expects to be going on Fox news and having a cuddly interview like Don Lemming/CNN would give him.
Made an absolute show of himself and the Democrats.
The race-changing analogy is just as valid, ask Elizabeth Warren on the subject (Fake Pocahontas). Maybe she'll agree with Tucker to save her own skin (pun intended).

I thought he was picked by Fox due to some harsh tweet he wrote?

Never heard of him myself.

And he clearly won't be put forward again if he was an official spokesman for the Dems. Completely inept at handling left field questions and thinking on his feet, although it's not always easy with that style of dishonest interviewing. (I remember O'Reilly trying that with Richard Dawkins years ago and getting schooled).

And the race analogy is not valid. Someone doesn't just decide one day to embrace a gender identity, as Carlson said with his race example. If you've evidence to that effect, go for it, although your pathetic, irrelevant Warren quip would suggest not. That this eejit couldn't point out the bleeding obvious doesn't make Carlson right, although it's typical of the Fox News interview style to try to distract and falsely discredit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2017, 05:26:11 PM
Think I'll self identify as black and bid for some govt work as a minority contractor
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 05:40:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

One guy clearly unprepared for what an interviewer was going to throw at him doesn't render the concerns over the rights of transgender people "batshit crazy". Its a good job you don't support Trump or you'd be folded up in the foetal position over the performances of his spokespeople! Although to be fair, they are mostly tasked with defending the indefensible and the illogical. ;)

And Carlson's "points" about Obama only issuing the guidance last year, as well as the race-changing analogy, were laughable.

It is interesting how THIS is now a states' rights issue, whereas we also heard from Spicer yesterday that federal marijuana laws take precedence over those of any states which have legalized it.

He is a spokesperson for the Democrats on the subject, not someone they picked randomly from the streets.
He hardly expects to be going on Fox news and having a cuddly interview like Don Lemming/CNN would give him.
Made an absolute show of himself and the Democrats.
The race-changing analogy is just as valid, ask Elizabeth Warren on the subject (Fake Pocahontas). Maybe she'll agree with Tucker to save her own skin (pun intended).

I thought he was picked by Fox due to some harsh tweet he wrote?

Never heard of him myself.

And he clearly won't be put forward again if he was an official spokesman for the Dems. Completely inept at handling left field questions and thinking on his feet, although it's not always easy with that style of dishonest interviewing. (I remember O'Reilly trying that with Richard Dawkins years ago and getting schooled).

And the race analogy is not valid. Someone doesn't just decide one day to embrace a gender identity, as Carlson said with his race example. If you've evidence to that effect, go for it, although your pathetic, irrelevant Warren quip would suggest not. That this eejit couldn't point out the bleeding obvious doesn't make Carlson right, although it's typical of the Fox News interview style to try to distract and falsely discredit.

Falsely discredit and distract? Yeah, right.

How in gods name was that a dishonest interview? So you'll back up Mr Petkanas' theory that it picking your own gender is a "settled science". Is that your belief too?

or would you say he's a liar?

You'll back up his theory?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

One guy clearly unprepared for what an interviewer was going to throw at him doesn't render the concerns over the rights of transgender people "batshit crazy". Its a good job you don't support Trump or you'd be folded up in the foetal position over the performances of his spokespeople! Although to be fair, they are mostly tasked with defending the indefensible and the illogical. ;)

And Carlson's "points" about Obama only issuing the guidance last year, as well as the race-changing analogy, were laughable.

It is interesting how THIS is now a states' rights issue, whereas we also heard from Spicer yesterday that federal marijuana laws take precedence over those of any states which have legalized it.

He is a spokesperson for the Democrats on the subject, not someone they picked randomly from the streets.
He hardly expects to be going on Fox news and having a cuddly interview like Don Lemming/CNN would give him.
Made an absolute show of himself and the Democrats.
The race-changing analogy is just as valid, ask Elizabeth Warren on the subject (Fake Pocahontas). Maybe she'll agree with Tucker to save her own skin (pun intended).

I thought he was picked by Fox due to some harsh tweet he wrote?

Never heard of him myself.

And he clearly won't be put forward again if he was an official spokesman for the Dems. Completely inept at handling left field questions and thinking on his feet, although it's not always easy with that style of dishonest interviewing. (I remember O'Reilly trying that with Richard Dawkins years ago and getting schooled).

And the race analogy is not valid. Someone doesn't just decide one day to embrace a gender identity, as Carlson said with his race example. If you've evidence to that effect, go for it, although your pathetic, irrelevant Warren quip would suggest not. That this eejit couldn't point out the bleeding obvious doesn't make Carlson right, although it's typical of the Fox News interview style to try to distract and falsely discredit.

and the race analogy is totally valid.

Today I am a 60 year old indian popcorn saleswoman (or salesperson for you PC crew) who lives in Buenos Aires.
We can all do makebelieve stuff just like the democrats!!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2017, 05:50:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 05:40:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

One guy clearly unprepared for what an interviewer was going to throw at him doesn't render the concerns over the rights of transgender people "batshit crazy". Its a good job you don't support Trump or you'd be folded up in the foetal position over the performances of his spokespeople! Although to be fair, they are mostly tasked with defending the indefensible and the illogical. ;)

And Carlson's "points" about Obama only issuing the guidance last year, as well as the race-changing analogy, were laughable.

It is interesting how THIS is now a states' rights issue, whereas we also heard from Spicer yesterday that federal marijuana laws take precedence over those of any states which have legalized it.

He is a spokesperson for the Democrats on the subject, not someone they picked randomly from the streets.
He hardly expects to be going on Fox news and having a cuddly interview like Don Lemming/CNN would give him.
Made an absolute show of himself and the Democrats.
The race-changing analogy is just as valid, ask Elizabeth Warren on the subject (Fake Pocahontas). Maybe she'll agree with Tucker to save her own skin (pun intended).

I thought he was picked by Fox due to some harsh tweet he wrote?

Never heard of him myself.

And he clearly won't be put forward again if he was an official spokesman for the Dems. Completely inept at handling left field questions and thinking on his feet, although it's not always easy with that style of dishonest interviewing. (I remember O'Reilly trying that with Richard Dawkins years ago and getting schooled).

And the race analogy is not valid. Someone doesn't just decide one day to embrace a gender identity, as Carlson said with his race example. If you've evidence to that effect, go for it, although your pathetic, irrelevant Warren quip would suggest not. That this eejit couldn't point out the bleeding obvious doesn't make Carlson right, although it's typical of the Fox News interview style to try to distract and falsely discredit.

Falsely discredit and distract? Yeah, right.

How in gods name was that a dishonest interview? So you'll back up Mr Petkanas' theory that it picking your own gender is a "settled science". Is that your belief too?

or would you say he's a liar?

You'll back up his theory?

Where did I say it was "settled science"?

Where have I defended that clown?

The dishonesty is in the false racial analogy and the utterly irrelevant piece on Obama at the start.

Little discussion of why suspending the guidance is a bad idea or why it might be needed, which was the reason the guy tweeted in the first place.

It was completely a gotcha type interview set up to do nothing except make that guy and the issue itself look ridiculous. He succeeded with the guy. The issue, not so much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2017, 05:52:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

One guy clearly unprepared for what an interviewer was going to throw at him doesn't render the concerns over the rights of transgender people "batshit crazy". Its a good job you don't support Trump or you'd be folded up in the foetal position over the performances of his spokespeople! Although to be fair, they are mostly tasked with defending the indefensible and the illogical. ;)

And Carlson's "points" about Obama only issuing the guidance last year, as well as the race-changing analogy, were laughable.

It is interesting how THIS is now a states' rights issue, whereas we also heard from Spicer yesterday that federal marijuana laws take precedence over those of any states which have legalized it.

He is a spokesperson for the Democrats on the subject, not someone they picked randomly from the streets.
He hardly expects to be going on Fox news and having a cuddly interview like Don Lemming/CNN would give him.
Made an absolute show of himself and the Democrats.
The race-changing analogy is just as valid, ask Elizabeth Warren on the subject (Fake Pocahontas). Maybe she'll agree with Tucker to save her own skin (pun intended).

I thought he was picked by Fox due to some harsh tweet he wrote?

Never heard of him myself.

And he clearly won't be put forward again if he was an official spokesman for the Dems. Completely inept at handling left field questions and thinking on his feet, although it's not always easy with that style of dishonest interviewing. (I remember O'Reilly trying that with Richard Dawkins years ago and getting schooled).

And the race analogy is not valid. Someone doesn't just decide one day to embrace a gender identity, as Carlson said with his race example. If you've evidence to that effect, go for it, although your pathetic, irrelevant Warren quip would suggest not. That this eejit couldn't point out the bleeding obvious doesn't make Carlson right, although it's typical of the Fox News interview style to try to distract and falsely discredit.

and the race analogy is totally valid.

Today I am a 60 year old indian popcorn saleswoman (or salesperson for you PC crew) who lives in Buenos Aires.
We can all do makebelieve stuff just like the democrats!!

About as relevant as the Warren example.

Which is to say, not at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 24, 2017, 06:50:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:42:33 PM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips


Jaw dropping stuff from the looney left, lack of accountability, inability to answer many questions without deflecting, making shit up, like 'settled science' That was a bad a beating as I have ever seen on a news show like that, it was incredible, I even felt bad for the stupid b**tard!

I am a father of two girls and would not want males walking into the bathrooms of my daughters claiming they were female.

As for real transgender kids, there should be federal funding to supply a bathroom at every school to make sure they are taken care of.

Foxcommander thanks for putting that up, it illustrates perfectly how fucked up the left is, damn I despise the far left with all my heart, and f**k the far right too for that matter.

Lets meet in the middle people.

So on the one hand, you want federal funding to take care of the bathroom needs of transgender kids, and on the other, the left is fucked up, looney and dishonest for advocating for them. And you want to "meet in the middle".

All right then!

Eh everybody deserves to be taken care of, transgender kids deserve to be treated as human beings ffs, they should not be going to bathrooms with a gender they do not identify with.

Again I dont want boys in the same bathroom as my girls and I dont want transgender kids in there either!

Why would I want these kids not to have their own facilities that boys and girls do?

If you believe in this so called science and think that tube and his stance has merit you need help!

When I mentioned meeting in the middle I meant the political parties, this division at the minute is a disaster and getting worse, what is wrong with wanted both left and right to bend enough to work together?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 07:47:01 PM
Dissent is now being stifled. Trump's war on the free press is ramping up.

QuoteWhite House blocks news organizations from press briefing

CNN and other news organizations were blocked Friday from an off-camera White House press briefing.

There was no immediate explanation from the White House.

The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and Politico were also excluded from the meeting, which is known as a gaggle and is less formal than the televised Q-and-A session in the White House briefing room.

The conservative media organizations Breitbart News, The Washington Times and One America News Network were allowed in.

The Associated Press and Time magazine boycotted the briefing because of how it was handled.

The White House Correspondents Association also protested the move.

"The WHCA board is protesting strongly against how today's gaggle is being handled by the White House," it said in a statement. "We encourage the organizations that were allowed in to share the material with others in the press corps who were not. The board will be discussing this further with White House staff."

In a separate statement, New York Times executive editor Dean Baquet wrote, "Nothing like this has ever happened at the White House in our long history of covering multiple administrations of different parties. We strongly protest the exclusion of The New York Times and the other news organizations. Free media access to a transparent government is obviously of crucial national interest."

Hours earlier, at the Conservative Political Action Conference outside Washington, President Trump mocked and disparaged the news media. He said that much of the press represents "the enemy of the people."

"They are the enemy of the people because they have no sources," Trump said. "They just make them up when there are none."
He also said reporters "shouldn't be allowed" to use unnamed sources.

I await Foxcommander's justification for this with great interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 07:51:17 PM
A friend of mine has been posting these every day since the tangerine gobshite took office. They're a pretty decent summary of each day's chaos:

POTUS
• Held a roundtable with manufacturing CEOs this morning.

• Commented on the immigration enforcement actions, saying, "You see what's happening at the border. All of a sudden for the first time, we're getting gang members out. We're getting drug lords out. We're getting really bad dudes out of this country, and at a rate that nobody's ever seen before."
Tell that to the woman arrested in a courthouse while getting a restraining order against her boyfriend.

• Mischaracterized the state of US trade relations, saying, 'Find a country where we actually do well.' So far we haven't found that country. It's just losses with everybody." The US Census Bureau actually has a comprehensive webpage detailing month-by-month trade statistics including country-by-country trade surpluses.

I'm Sorry Your Dad Didn't Hug You

• During the manufacturing CEO roundtable, POTUS made GE CEO Jeff Immelt tell a story about the time the President hit a hole-in-one. The President followed up with, "I said I was the best golfer of all the rich people."
CPAC

• Betsy DeVos opened her speech with, "[I'm] perhaps the first person to tell Bernie Sanders to his face that there's no such thing as a free lunch."
The National School Lunch Program is a federally assisted meal program operating in over 100,000 public and non‐profit private schools and residential child care institutions. It provided nutritionally balanced, low‐cost or free lunches to more than 31 million children each school day in 2012.

• Chief ethno-nationalist Steve Bannon and Chief of Staff Reince Priebus did an Edgar Bergen & Charlie routine on stage. Bannon declared that the new administration is in an unending battle for "deconstruction of the administrative state."

• American Conservative Union executive director Dan Schneider tried to run away from the alt-right, claiming that they are, in fact, "garden variety, left-wing, fascists."

Ah yes, the good old "Commie-Nazis." Makes perfect sense.

That's Not How This Works

• Concerned about the CNN and New York Times stories outlining FBI investigations into Trump team contacts with Russia, Chief of Staff Reince Priebus asked the FBI to tell the press that there were no connections between the Trump campaign or his associates and Russia. Such a request from the White House is a violation of procedures that limit communications with the FBI on pending investigations and as such FBI Director James Comey rejected the request.

Wagging the Dog

• The President has asked DHS & DOJ to create a post-facto justification for the seven-country travel ban. They are putting together an intelligence report that will show that the "countries have all been exporters of terrorism into the United States," and "the refugee program has been a major incubator for terrorism."

The report should be interesting, seeing as how neither of these statements are borne out by facts. DHS's in-house intelligence arm, the Office of Intelligence and Analysis, issued a report that clashes with the administration's position that nationality is a good predictor of terrorism.
420

• Spicey told the daily press briefing that the DOJ will be "taking action" against states that have legalized recreational marijuana.
So if you're keeping score at home, that's equal protection for transgender students: state's rights. Getting high: federal matter.
For-Profit Prisons

• Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced on Thursday the Justice Department would "rescind" the department's previous directive to scale back the use of private prisons.

The Obama administration announced it would wind down the use of private prisons in August, because investigative journalism and inspector general reports showed that private prisons were deficeint in services, resources, cost-saving, safety & security for inmates and corrections officers.
GEO Group ($275,00 to pro-Trump super PAC Rebuilding America Now) stock price has gained 98.2% and CoreCivic ($250,000 to Trump inaugural) is up 136.8% since Nov. 8, 2016.

Support Our Troops

• Part of the new immigration enforcement memos issued this week ends the Parole in Place program, which allowed close undocumented relatives of U.S. service members and veterans to apply for a green card without leaving the U.S., keeping military families together.
Travel & Tourism

• Frommer's reports on a "Trump Slump." Tourism is down 6.8% since the travel ban was announced, imperiling jobs and touristic income. The fall-off is not limited to Muslim travelers, but also extends to all incoming foreign tourists. On the web, flight searches for trips heading to the U.S. out of all international locations was recently down by 17%.

A drop of that magnitude, if continued, would reduce the value of foreign travel within the U.S. by billions of dollars. The knock-on effect to hospitality, service, tourism, & transportation industries would easily be into several hundreds of thousands of workers.
The States

• Arizona Republicans are attempting to effectively snuff out First Amendment rights. The Senate voted in favor of a law that will expand the definition of racketeering and allow the arrest of anyone on the street during a protest that results in property damage, and the seizure of their assets.
Baghdad Bobbie

• A group of law professors from around the country has filed a professional misconduct complaint against White House counselor Kellyanne Conway, a member of the D.C. Bar. The letter requests Conway be sanctioned for violating government ethics rules and "conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation."

"Ms. Conway's conduct was so outside the norm for a member of the legal profession," Smith said. "What prompted our complaint was a combination of the specific conduct that Ms. Conway engaged in plus the fact that she holds such a high public office."

• During her CPAC panel, dismissed the Women's March on Washington, saying that "Women don't like women in power."
Probably why women supported Clinton over Trump by 54% to 42%. This professional pollster might be engaging in a little bit of selection bias with her psychological assessment though.
When you drill into those numbers you find that the bloc of women that did vote Trump (and presumably were *not* engaged in the Women's March) were non-college educated white women (64%).

This has been Day 35 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2017, 08:04:03 PM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2017, 06:50:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:42:33 PM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips


Jaw dropping stuff from the looney left, lack of accountability, inability to answer many questions without deflecting, making shit up, like 'settled science' That was a bad a beating as I have ever seen on a news show like that, it was incredible, I even felt bad for the stupid b**tard!

I am a father of two girls and would not want males walking into the bathrooms of my daughters claiming they were female.

As for real transgender kids, there should be federal funding to supply a bathroom at every school to make sure they are taken care of.

Foxcommander thanks for putting that up, it illustrates perfectly how fucked up the left is, damn I despise the far left with all my heart, and f**k the far right too for that matter.

Lets meet in the middle people.

So on the one hand, you want federal funding to take care of the bathroom needs of transgender kids, and on the other, the left is fucked up, looney and dishonest for advocating for them. And you want to "meet in the middle".

All right then!

Eh everybody deserves to be taken care of, transgender kids deserve to be treated as human beings ffs, they should not be going to bathrooms with a gender they do not identify with.

Again I dont want boys in the same bathroom as my girls and I dont want transgender kids in there either!

Why would I want these kids not to have their own facilities that boys and girls do?

If you believe in this so called science and think that tube and his stance has merit you need help!

When I mentioned meeting in the middle I meant the political parties, this division at the minute is a disaster and getting worse, what is wrong with wanted both left and right to bend enough to work together?

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with wanting both right and left to compromise. Your posts seem full of contradictions though. On the one hand you're castigating that hapless DNC dude and, seemingly, the issue of transgender kids/people in general ("so-called science"), while at the same time advocating that they be accommodated (which is great).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 24, 2017, 08:22:35 PM
Trump has banned some major news organisations from a briefing. Smells like facisim to me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2017, 08:40:18 PM
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MVyYS5_yzEA/WLBdONg-UOI/AAAAAAAAadA/lqLxnoFlBf0a3d7fjGbwjLkPjvDnKIPAwCLcB/s1600/16938466_1271831516230390_7165305127488417705_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 08:48:37 PM
The US has a load of systemic problems that neither Dems nor the Batshits have addressed. Healthcare is out of control. Wall St is prolly going to crash. The environment is in serious trouble. Payrises are not happening. Income inequality is off the scale.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 09:11:32 PM
Michael Calderone
‏@mlcalderone
In Dec, Spicer said Trump White House would "absolutely not" kick out news orgs in response to critical coverage

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sean-spicer-kick-press-white-house_us_58540252e4b0b3ddfd8c29d0


And now :
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/02/24/cnn-nyt-others-blocked-from-wh-briefing.html

Anyone between Foxy, Stew , whitey etc willing to spin this ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 09:12:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 07:47:01 PM
Dissent is now being stifled. Trump's war on the free press is ramping up.

QuoteWhite House blocks news organizations from press briefing

CNN and other news organizations were blocked Friday from an off-camera White House press briefing.

There was no immediate explanation from the White House.

The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and Politico were also excluded from the meeting, which is known as a gaggle and is less formal than the televised Q-and-A session in the White House briefing room.

The conservative media organizations Breitbart News, The Washington Times and One America News Network were allowed in.

The Associated Press and Time magazine boycotted the briefing because of how it was handled.

The White House Correspondents Association also protested the move.

"The WHCA board is protesting strongly against how today's gaggle is being handled by the White House," it said in a statement. "We encourage the organizations that were allowed in to share the material with others in the press corps who were not. The board will be discussing this further with White House staff."

In a separate statement, New York Times executive editor Dean Baquet wrote, "Nothing like this has ever happened at the White House in our long history of covering multiple administrations of different parties. We strongly protest the exclusion of The New York Times and the other news organizations. Free media access to a transparent government is obviously of crucial national interest."

Hours earlier, at the Conservative Political Action Conference outside Washington, President Trump mocked and disparaged the news media. He said that much of the press represents "the enemy of the people."

"They are the enemy of the people because they have no sources," Trump said. "They just make them up when there are none."
He also said reporters "shouldn't be allowed" to use unnamed sources.

I await Foxcommander's justification for this with great interest.

Love it. It's not a free press if they are engaged in irresponsible and misleading reporting.
CNN will always make shit up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 09:14:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 08:48:37 PM
The US has a load of systemic problems that neither Dems nor the Batshits have addressed. Healthcare is out of control. Wall St is prolly going to crash. The environment is in serious trouble. Payrises are not happening. Income inequality is off the scale.

Obama was in office for the last 8 years. Put the blame squarely where it lies lads.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 09:21:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 09:12:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 07:47:01 PM
Dissent is now being stifled. Trump's war on the free press is ramping up.

QuoteWhite House blocks news organizations from press briefing

CNN and other news organizations were blocked Friday from an off-camera White House press briefing.

There was no immediate explanation from the White House.

The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and Politico were also excluded from the meeting, which is known as a gaggle and is less formal than the televised Q-and-A session in the White House briefing room.

The conservative media organizations Breitbart News, The Washington Times and One America News Network were allowed in.

The Associated Press and Time magazine boycotted the briefing because of how it was handled.

The White House Correspondents Association also protested the move.

"The WHCA board is protesting strongly against how today's gaggle is being handled by the White House," it said in a statement. "We encourage the organizations that were allowed in to share the material with others in the press corps who were not. The board will be discussing this further with White House staff."

In a separate statement, New York Times executive editor Dean Baquet wrote, "Nothing like this has ever happened at the White House in our long history of covering multiple administrations of different parties. We strongly protest the exclusion of The New York Times and the other news organizations. Free media access to a transparent government is obviously of crucial national interest."

Hours earlier, at the Conservative Political Action Conference outside Washington, President Trump mocked and disparaged the news media. He said that much of the press represents "the enemy of the people."

"They are the enemy of the people because they have no sources," Trump said. "They just make them up when there are none."
He also said reporters "shouldn't be allowed" to use unnamed sources.

I await Foxcommander's justification for this with great interest.

Love it. It's not a free press if they are engaged in irresponsible and misleading reporting.
CNN will always make shit up.
Give us 10 examples.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 09:22:52 PM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2017, 06:50:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:42:33 PM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips


Jaw dropping stuff from the looney left, lack of accountability, inability to answer many questions without deflecting, making shit up, like 'settled science' That was a bad a beating as I have ever seen on a news show like that, it was incredible, I even felt bad for the stupid b**tard!

I am a father of two girls and would not want males walking into the bathrooms of my daughters claiming they were female.

As for real transgender kids, there should be federal funding to supply a bathroom at every school to make sure they are taken care of.

Foxcommander thanks for putting that up, it illustrates perfectly how fucked up the left is, damn I despise the far left with all my heart, and f**k the far right too for that matter.

Lets meet in the middle people.

So on the one hand, you want federal funding to take care of the bathroom needs of transgender kids, and on the other, the left is fucked up, looney and dishonest for advocating for them. And you want to "meet in the middle".

All right then!

Eh everybody deserves to be taken care of, transgender kids deserve to be treated as human beings ffs, they should not be going to bathrooms with a gender they do not identify with.

Again I dont want boys in the same bathroom as my girls and I dont want transgender kids in there either!

Why would I want these kids not to have their own facilities that boys and girls do?

If you believe in this so called science and think that tube and his stance has merit you need help!

When I mentioned meeting in the middle I meant the political parties, this division at the minute is a disaster and getting worse, what is wrong with wanted both left and right to bend enough to work together?

Liberals have no interest in working together. The last few months have proved it. They scream like spoiled little kids when they don't get their way. Shame really. Too many issues going neglected because a common consensus can't be found. Then again you could say the same about Fine Gael and Fianna fail for decades.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 09:54:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 09:14:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 08:48:37 PM
The US has a load of systemic problems that neither Dems nor the Batshits have addressed. Healthcare is out of control. Wall St is prolly going to crash. The environment is in serious trouble. Payrises are not happening. Income inequality is off the scale.

Obama was in office for the last 8 years. Put the blame squarely where it lies lads.

Yes. The obstructionist Repubs in congress have a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 09:55:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 09:22:52 PM


Liberals Conservatives have no interest in working together. The last few months six years have proved it. They scream like spoiled little kids when they don't get their way. Shame really. Too many issues going neglected because a common consensus can't be found. Then again you could say the same about Fine Gael and Fianna fail for decades.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 09:12:35 PM
Love it. It's not a free press if they are engaged in irresponsible and misleading reporting.
CNN will always make shit up.

So Fox News is not free press? Breitbart isn't free press because they lie through their teeth?

You conservatives are becoming so deranged that the words coming out of your mouths only serve to reveal to the world how stupid you are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 10:19:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 09:12:35 PM
Love it. It's not a free press if they are engaged in irresponsible and misleading reporting.
CNN will always make shit up.

So Fox News is not free press? Breitbart isn't free press because they lie through their teeth?

You conservatives are becoming so deranged that the words coming out of your mouths only serve to reveal to the world how stupid you are.

Hey - Settled Science is all democrat. A top DNC official no less.

You can smell the shit coming out of the telly when CNN/Democrats are on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 24, 2017, 10:27:19 PM
and my monitor when I read your posts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 24, 2017, 10:32:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2017, 09:11:32 PM
Michael Calderone
‏@mlcalderone
In Dec, Spicer said Trump White House would "absolutely not" kick out news orgs in response to critical coverage

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sean-spicer-kick-press-white-house_us_58540252e4b0b3ddfd8c29d0


And now :
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/02/24/cnn-nyt-others-blocked-from-wh-briefing.html

Anyone between Foxy, Stew , whitey etc willing to spin this ?

And Trump said this last April (one of the most sensible things he's ever said):

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/21/donald-trump-says-transgender-people-should-use-the-bathroom-they-want/?_r=0

Quote"North Carolina did something — it was very strong — and they're paying a big price. And there's a lot of problems. And I heard — one of the best answers I heard was from a commentator yesterday saying, leave it the way it is, right now."

He added that before the law passed, there had been "very few problems" but now North Carolina is experiencing an exodus of businesses and "strife" from people on both sides of the issue.

"You leave it the way it is," he said. "There have been very few complaints the way it is."

But that's not what he's doing now.

What happened to this notion that "he's keeping his word"?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2017, 11:40:19 PM
Speaking of fake news...

So Fox News had ""Swedish Defense and National Security Advisor" Nils Bildt on The O'Reilly Factor to talk about how trump is right and immigrants are ruining Sweden, and people are not allowed to talk about.
A few minor issues - no-one in Sweden has heard of him (especially the Foreign Office or anyone involved in national security. He apparently left Sweden in 1994.
Oh - and he was convicted of assaulting a police officer and public drunkenness in Virginia in 2014 and sentenced to a year in prison.
He is, in other words, a criminal immigrant in a foreign country.
Have a lovely evening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2017, 12:30:11 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 10:19:41 PM

Hey - Settled Science is all democrat. A top DNC official no less.

You can smell the shit coming out of the telly when CNN/Democrats are on.

Lovely little side-step and shimmy there. Ever play Rugby?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 25, 2017, 12:32:48 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 09:22:52 PM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2017, 06:50:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2017, 02:42:33 PM
Quote from: stew on February 24, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
This is how batshit crazy the democrats are. "settled science" indeed.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5335054653001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips


Jaw dropping stuff from the looney left, lack of accountability, inability to answer many questions without deflecting, making shit up, like 'settled science' That was a bad a beating as I have ever seen on a news show like that, it was incredible, I even felt bad for the stupid b**tard!

I am a father of two girls and would not want males walking into the bathrooms of my daughters claiming they were female.

As for real transgender kids, there should be federal funding to supply a bathroom at every school to make sure they are taken care of.

Foxcommander thanks for putting that up, it illustrates perfectly how fucked up the left is, damn I despise the far left with all my heart, and f**k the far right too for that matter.

Lets meet in the middle people.

So on the one hand, you want federal funding to take care of the bathroom needs of transgender kids, and on the other, the left is fucked up, looney and dishonest for advocating for them. And you want to "meet in the middle".

All right then!

Eh everybody deserves to be taken care of, transgender kids deserve to be treated as human beings ffs, they should not be going to bathrooms with a gender they do not identify with.

Again I dont want boys in the same bathroom as my girls and I dont want transgender kids in there either!

Why would I want these kids not to have their own facilities that boys and girls do?

If you believe in this so called science and think that tube and his stance has merit you need help!

When I mentioned meeting in the middle I meant the political parties, this division at the minute is a disaster and getting worse, what is wrong with wanted both left and right to bend enough to work together?

Liberals have no interest in working together. The last few months have proved it. They scream like spoiled little kids when they don't get their way. Shame really. Too many issues going neglected because a common consensus can't be found. Then again you could say the same about Fine Gael and Fianna fail for decades.

This is the type of statement that proves you're either clueless or dishonest (a bit of both in my opinion).

Where was the consensus-seeking among the Republicans, the party of "Hell no" scorched-earth tactics, for the past eight years? How did the stolen Supreme Court seat come about? Which party, to its highest levels, including and especially the current president, pushed the "Kenyan-born muslim" bollocks? Which party pontificated about deficits and national debt for years, but the second their own man gets in the office, they drop it altogether to pursue military build-up, a ludicrous wall and the probable pending tax cuts for the rich? Which party voted more than FIFTY times to repeal Obamacare, but now that there is something real at stake, still can't come to an agreement about, if anything, can be done to replace it? Which party has been the leading cheerleader for free trade for decades, but sold their soul on one of their central principles in pursuit of power? I could go on...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 07:05:16 AM
Transgender stuff is fluff. How many people even know a trans person? Imagine Fox running story after story about Carlow hurlers. The focus on trans is a deflection from the real issues such as

1 Politicising intelligence
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-sought-to-enlist-intelligence-officials-key-lawmakers-to-counter-russia-stories/2017/02/24/c8487552-fa99-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html

2. Banning media from press briefings
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/24/us/politics/white-house-sean-spicer-briefing.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2017, 07:17:17 AM
The conservative dedication to free speech in action:

QuoteRepublican lawmakers introduce bills to curb protesting in at least 18 states


Since the election of President Trump, Republican lawmakers in at least 18 states have introduced or voted on legislation to curb mass protests in what civil liberties experts are calling "an attack on protest rights throughout the states."

From Virginia to Washington state, legislators have introduced bills that would increase punishments for blocking highways, ban the use of masks during protests, indemnify drivers who strike protesters with their cars and, in at least once case, seize the assets of people involved in protests that later turn violent. The proposals come after a string of mass protest movements in the past few years, covering everything from police shootings of unarmed black men to the Dakota Access Pipeline to the inauguration of Trump.

Some are introducing bills because they say they're necessary to counter the actions of "paid" or "professional" protesters who set out to intimidate or disrupt, a common accusation that experts agree is largely overstated. "You now have a situation where you have full-time, quasi-professional agent-provocateurs that attempt to create public disorder," said Republican state senator John Kavanagh of Arizona in support of a measure there that would bring racketeering charges against some protesters.

Protests erupt across the U.S. after Trump signs travel ban Embed  Share Play Video1:31
Protesters in cities across the nation rallied against President Trump's executive order banning U.S. entry for refugees, migrants and foreign nationals for 120 days. Here's a look at some of the protests that took place in airports and city squares across the U.S. after the order was signed. (Dalton Bennett, Erin Patrick O'Connor, Elyse Samuels, Monica Akhtar/The Washington Post)
Others, like the sponsors of a bill in Minnesota, say the measures are necessary to protect public safety on highways. Still other bills, in states like Oklahoma and South Dakota, are intended to discourage protesting related to oil pipelines.

Democrats in many of these states are fighting the legislation. They cite existing laws that already make it a crime to block traffic, the possibility of a chilling effect on protests across the political spectrum, and concerns for protesters' safety in the face of aggressive motorists.

None of the proposed legislation has yet been passed into law, and several bills have already been shelved in committee.

Critics doubt whether many of the laws would pass Constitutional muster. "The Supreme Court has gone out of its way on multiple occasions to point out that streets, sidewalks and public parks are places where [First Amendment] protections are at their most robust," said Lee Rowland, a senior attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union.


This is by no means the first time in American history that widespread protests have inspired a legislative backlash, says Douglas McAdam, a Stanford sociology professor who studies protest movements. "For instance, southern legislatures — especially in the Deep South — responded to the Montgomery Bus Boycott (and the Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education) with dozens and dozens of new bills outlawing civil rights groups, limiting the rights of assembly, etc. all in an effort to make civil rights organizing more difficult," he said via email.

"Similarly," he added, "laws designed to limit or outlaw labor organizing or limit labor rights were common in the late 19th/early 20th century."

The ACLU's Rowland says the new bills are not about "creating new rules that are necessary because of some gap in the law." She points out, for instance, that "every single city and county in the United States" already has laws on the books against obstructing traffic on busy roads.

Rather, Rowland says the laws' intent is "increasing the penalties for protest-related activity to the point that it results in self-censorship among protesters who have every intention to obey the law."

Even the accusations of "paid" or "professional" agitators, which Trump has promoted, have been leveled at protesters before.

"This is standard operating procedure for movement opponents," Stanford's McAdam said. "Civil rights workers were said to be 'outside agitators, and the tea party was dismissed as an 'AstroTurf' phenomenon — funded from on high by the Koch brothers and others — rather than a legitimate 'grass roots' movement. In all these cases, including the present, the charges are generally bogus, with the vast majority of protesters principled individuals motivated by the force of deeply held values and strong emotion."

But now, social media has made it possible to organize larger protests more rapidly than ever before. "The older laws are becoming less effectual in dealing with these kind of groups," said Michael Heaney of the University of Michigan, a political sociologist who studies protest movements. On top of that, "the courts have said, 'Look, the people have a right to protest in this way.' " So on some level the new legislation represents an attempt by lawmakers to catch up with new realities of 21st-century protesting.


Here's a list of laws that have been introduced or voted on since the election.

Arizona

Arizona's bill, introduced this week, would open up protests to anti-racketeering legislation, targeting protesters with the same laws used to combat organized crime syndicates. It would also allow police to seize the assets of anyone involved in a protest that at some point becomes violent. It recently passed the state Senate on a party-line vote and is now before the House.

Colorado

A bill under consideration in Colorado would strengthen penalties for "tampering" with oil and gas equipment. It's intended to prevent activists from shutting off pipelines, a tactic that's been used in other states.

Florida

A bill introduced by Republican George Gainer in the Florida Senate this month would provide criminal penalties for protesters obstructing traffic and exempt drivers from liability if they struck a protester under certain conditions. It was filed this week, and if enacted would take force on July 1.

Georgia

A "Back the Badge" bill recently passed by the Georgia Senate increases penalties for blocking "any highway, street, sidewalk or other public passage." The bill is sponsored by six Republican senators.

Iowa

A bill supported by nine Republican sponsors would make protesters who intentionally block highways subject to felony charges and up to five years in prison. The bill's lead sponsor told the Des Moines Register it was introduced in response to a November incident in which a protest Trump shut down part of Interstate 80 in Iowa.

Indiana

An Indiana Senate committee recently toned down a bill that would have allowed police to shut down highway protests using "any means necessary." The current version allows police to issue fines for such behavior.

Michigan

A Michigan bill voted on late last year would have increased fines for certain "mass picketing" behavior, and made it easier for courts to shut down such demonstrations.

Minnesota

Bills under consideration in Minnesota would increase fines for protesters blocking highways and airports. A separate measure before the legislature would make it possible for jurisdictions to charge protesters for the costs of policing the protests.


Missouri

A Republican lawmaker has introduced legislation that would make it illegal for protesters to wear masks, robes or other disguises during protests deemed to be illegal.

Mississippi

A bill before the Mississippi legislature would make obstruction of traffic a felony punishable by a $10,000 fine and a five-year prison sentence.

North Carolina

A North Carolina Republican has pledged to introduce legislation making it a crime to "threaten, intimidate or retaliate against" current or former state officials, in response to an incident involving the heckling of Gov. Pat McCrory. The Senator proposing the legislation, Dan Bishop, confirmed via email that he still intends to introduce the legislation, perhaps as early as next week, after consulting with potential co-sponsors.

North Dakota

A number of North Dakota bills have been introduced in response to the long-standing protests there against the Dakota Access Pipeline. The measure that drew the most attention was a bill that would have removed penalties for motorists who strike protesters with their car in some circumstances. That bill failed to make it out of the House, but a number of other measures increasing penalties for certain types of protest action are advancing through the legislature.

Oklahoma

Inspired by pipeline protests in North Dakota, the Oklahoma legislature is considering a bill that would increase penalties for trespassing on certain pieces of "critical infrastructure" like pipelines and railways.

Oregon

A novel piece of legislation in Oregon would require public community colleges and universities to expel any student convicted of participating in a violent riot.

South Dakota

A Senate panel in South Dakota recently approved a bill that would increase penalties for certain acts of trespassing and blocking highways. It's a response to pipeline protests in North Dakota, and to the potential for similar protests in South Dakota if the Keystone XL pipeline gets built.

Tennessee

A Tennessee Republican wants drivers to be protected from liability if they inadvertently strike a protester who is blocking a roadway.

Wonkbook newsletter
Your daily policy cheat sheet from Wonkblog.
Sign up
Virginia

A Virginia bill that would have increased penalties for people who refused to leave the scene of a riot or unlawful protest died in the state Senate last month. The bill had been requested by law enforcement.

Washington state


Washington lawmakers are considering a bill to increase penalties for people blocking highways and railways, acts that the bill's sponsor has characterized as "economic terrorism."

This story has been updated to include information on legislation pending in Georgia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/24/republican-lawmakers-introduce-bills-to-curb-protesting-in-at-least-17-states/?utm_campaign=969d326a6c-Day_35_Rejected_copy_01_2_23_2017&utm_medium=email&utm_source=WTF%20Just%20Happened%20Today%3F&utm_term=.ab5775c32767

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 08:32:59 AM
Eamonn, I don't think the GOP is conservative at the moment. It's run by fruitcakes who don't care about conservative concerns. The Tory party is the same. We are in a really weird political moment. I wouldn't vote conservative but I would respect conservatives. And the people running the US gov are contemptible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 25, 2017, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 24, 2017, 08:22:35 PM
Trump has banned some major news organisations from a briefing. Smells like facisim to me.

Your sense of smell is very reliable.

In 1933, in Germany, "the Propaganda Ministry aimed further to control the content of news and editorial pages through directives distributed in daily conferences in Berlin ...
... Detailed guidelines stated what stories could or could not be reported and how to report the news. Journalists or editors who failed to follow these instructions could be fired or, if believed to be acting with intent to harm Germany, sent to a concentration camp. Rather than suppressing news, the Nazi propaganda apparatus instead sought to tightly control its flow and interpretation and to deny access to alternative sources of news."

- from https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007655 (https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007655) (the website of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 11:36:19 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 25, 2017, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 24, 2017, 08:22:35 PM
Trump has banned some major news organisations from a briefing. Smells like facisim to me.

Your sense of smell is very reliable.

In 1933, in Germany, "the Propaganda Ministry aimed further to control the content of news and editorial pages through directives distributed in daily conferences in Berlin ...
... Detailed guidelines stated what stories could or could not be reported and how to report the news. Journalists or editors who failed to follow these instructions could be fired or, if believed to be acting with intent to harm Germany, sent to a concentration camp. Rather than suppressing news, the Nazi propaganda apparatus instead sought to tightly control its flow and interpretation and to deny access to alternative sources of news."

- from https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007655 (https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007655) (the website of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum)

"Enemy of the people" has a very distinguished pedigree, having been used by Hitler, Stalin and Mao. Goebbels wrote that "every Jew is a sworn enemy of the German people".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F_aXd5cwCw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 03:26:03 PM
via the New York Times

"In a speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference, President Trump escalated his attacks on journalists and said that the F.B.I. was putting the United States at risk. "

Bannon is a wild and very dangerous motherfucker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOb8_Aau9g0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 08:27:59 AM
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/americans-politics-source-stress/2017/02/15/id/773844/

Seventy-six percent of Democrats are stressed about the future of the country.
Fifty-nine percent of Republicans say the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 08:04:50 PM
Zack Whittaker‏@zackwhittaker 25 feb.

Places where BBC reporters are banned: •  Rwanda •  North Korea •  The White House •  Iran •  Zimbabwe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2017, 08:34:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 08:32:59 AM
Eamonn, I don't think the GOP is conservative at the moment. It's run by fruitcakes who don't care about conservative concerns. The Tory party is the same. We are in a really weird political moment. I wouldn't vote conservative but I would respect conservatives. And the people running the US gov are contemptible.


How long have they been contemptible?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 08:45:29 PM
Quote from: stew on February 26, 2017, 08:34:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 08:32:59 AM
Eamonn, I don't think the GOP is conservative at the moment. It's run by fruitcakes who don't care about conservative concerns. The Tory party is the same. We are in a really weird political moment. I wouldn't vote conservative but I would respect conservatives. And the people running the US gov are contemptible.


How long have they been contemptible?
I didn't think much of Obama either, Stew, but people like Miller and Bannon are on a different level and dangerous
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 26, 2017, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 08:04:50 PM
Zack Whittaker‏@zackwhittaker 25 feb.

Places where BBC reporters are banned: •  Rwanda •  North Korea •  The White House •  Iran •  Zimbabwe

Thats an interesting one, it seems like the BBC are banned there for allowing airing dissenting opinions on the genocide there.
Which similarly is actually a crime in most of the present day host countries that the WWII genocide occured
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 27, 2017, 03:18:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 08:45:29 PM
Quote from: stew on February 26, 2017, 08:34:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 08:32:59 AM
Eamonn, I don't think the GOP is conservative at the moment. It's run by fruitcakes who don't care about conservative concerns. The Tory party is the same. We are in a really weird political moment. I wouldn't vote conservative but I would respect conservatives. And the people running the US gov are contemptible.


How long have they been contemptible?
I didn't think much of Obama either, Stew, but people like Miller and Bannon are on a different level and dangerous


I am just sick of the comparisons with Nazi Germany, they are ridiculous, Trump is not nor will he ever try and become a dictator, he is childish, petulant and can be brilliant at times, but on here some have him pegged as a nazi, some a communist and its all bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2017, 05:09:42 PM
George W Bush horses into the debate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHBkCq5Tmso
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2017, 05:49:57 PM
Quote from: stew on February 27, 2017, 03:18:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 08:45:29 PM
Quote from: stew on February 26, 2017, 08:34:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 08:32:59 AM
Eamonn, I don't think the GOP is conservative at the moment. It's run by fruitcakes who don't care about conservative concerns. The Tory party is the same. We are in a really weird political moment. I wouldn't vote conservative but I would respect conservatives. And the people running the US gov are contemptible.


How long have they been contemptible?
I didn't think much of Obama either, Stew, but people like Miller and Bannon are on a different level and dangerous


I am just sick of the comparisons with Nazi Germany, they are ridiculous, Trump is not nor will he ever try and become a dictator, he is childish, petulant and can be brilliant at times, but on here some have him pegged as a nazi, some a communist and its all bullshit.

Stoo - Are you talking about the time Trump compared his own intelligence services and John McCain to Nazi Germany, or the constant branding of feminists as "feminazis" by the right? Or the old "liberal fascists" line?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 27, 2017, 05:55:14 PM
Hillary's concession speech as a song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkS2Sl1kl
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2017, 07:00:00 PM
QuoteTweet Beat

• The President lashed out today about the sustained drumbeat of stories about his group's ties to Russia, writing: "Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems, and played up by the media, in order to mask the big election defeat and the illegal leaks!"
Of course, the "illegal leaks" are *about* Russia, so I'm not sure how that logic leap works? You get the FBI to investigate so they have something to leak to the press so you can push the story in the media to paper over the leaks?
Dinner for Schmucks (Epilogue)

• The President's entrée last night at his hotel consisted of an aged NY strip, cooked well done. He ate it with catsup "as he always does."
Impeach this f**k NOW.

• Last week, rumors surfaced that the Navy Secretary nominee, Philip Bilden, was going to be withdrawing because it was going to be too hard to divest from his financial holdings to satisfy the conflict of interest vetting. The Press Secretary vehemently denied these reports, tweeting, "Just spoke with him and he is 100% commited to being the next SECNAV pending Senate confirm."
Today Bilden withdrew, making him the second service branch secretary to bail. No replacement for either position has been offered.
Press Secretary

• Spicey's apparently gone full Captain Queeg in his search for the West Wing Leakers. He convened a meeting of his staff to complain about the press leaks – and news of the meeting promptly leaked to the press.
Politico reported that, flanked by White House lawyers, Spicey ordered the comms staff to dump their work and personal mobile phones on the table to be checked for incriminating communications. They were then told that using encrypted messaging systems like Confide or Signal was a violation of the Presidential Records Act.
Olivia Nuzzi of New York Magazine promptly posted a screenshot of her own Confide address book with Sean Spicer listed in it.
On Feb 16, Buzzfeed published a story about West Wing staff using Confide. In the article, Spicey acknowledged Confide was installed on his phone and he had used it, but that "the idea of what apps I use on my phone is an invasion of my privacy."

• After the Politico story broke, the press office promptly planted a story "according to one informed official" in the Washington Examiner about Alex Isenstadt of Politico "laughing" at the death of the SEAL killed in Yemen.
In the article, there is an anecdote about Spicey berating deputy communications director Jessica Ditto until she cried. Spicey denied this, saying, "The only time Jessica recalls almost getting emotional is when we had to relay the information on the death of Chief Ryan Owens." An unnamed member of the White House that professes to hate anonymous quotes says this caused the reporter to laugh.
Politico spokesman Brad Dayspring said that Isenstadt "chuckled" at Spicer's heated reaction to the questions, not the death of the SEAL.
Budget

• The AP reports that the budget drawn up by OMB head Mick Mulvaney plans to inflate defense spending by making severe cuts to the EPA and to the State Department — tens of billions of dollars, to be precise. The cuts need to be drastic enough so that the President's promise to not touch Medicare or Social Security. The New York Times noted that, "social safety net programs... would also be hit hard," but did not list any specifics.

Town Hall Roundup

• 275 people attended a "constituent town hall" in Speaker Paul Ryan's district in Kenosha, WI. The Speaker was invited but refused to attend.

• Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) invoked the specter of Rep. Gabby Gifford's shooting as the reason he would not be participating in any public town halls.
Giffords responded thusly: "I was shot on a Saturday morning. By Monday morning my offices were open to the public."

• Sen Marco Rubio (R-FL) told local Miami news that he won't go to a town hall because people will "heckle and scream at me." He maintains that 80-90% of the crowd is "liberal activists" but when he was running against Charlie Crist in 2009 he said of politicians who don't believe people at town halls are actual constituents: "They're so insulated. Never has our political class been more insulated from the real lives of real people."

• New Jersey Governor Chris Christie put craven GOP legislators on blast, saying, 'Welcome to the real world of responsibility."

This has been Day 38 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2017, 07:55:14 PM
Stew, Richard Spencer, who is a top man in the alt right movement,  is a neo Nazi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rh1dhur4aI

Asked if he feels he now has an ally in the White House, Spencer said: "In terms of Donald Trump, I would say that it's not so much that he's alt-right, it's that he's a nationalist and a populist and so he's connected to us on that basic level. He doesn't articulate our ideas – he's not an identarian – but his arrow points in our direction."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2017, 05:24:23 PM
QuotePOTUS

• Met with state governors today and said, "Now, I have to tell you, it's an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."
JFC. I've got nothing here. There can't be anything to top the self-parody of this man. LIT-ER-A-LY EVERYONE knows health care is complicated.

• Also slagged off the last 40 years of servicemen and women, saying that they were "courageous" but that "we never win and we don't fight to win" wars anymore.
The five-time draft dodger who compared not getting an STD in the '80s to Vietnam continued, "when I was young, in high school and college, everybody used to say we never lost a war. We never lost a war. You remember, some of you were right there with me, you remember, America never lost."

• As the press pool was being led out of the Oval Office this morning, the President was asked if he supported the appointment of a special prosecutor to oversee the DOJ's Russia investigations. The President replied, "I haven't called Russia in 10 years."
His continued denials of specific charges that no one is making is so, so interesting. In his indistinct mind what that statement means can be up for debate, but even so, his statement is demonstrably false. He held the Miss Universe pageant there in 2013 and traveled there to attend. He was interviewed by American media in Moscow. This was the same interview in which he boasted of having a relationship with Vladimir Putin.

• Gave his approval for the staff phone checks, press gaggle exclusion, and engaging Intelligence Committee heads on Russia investigation pushback, according to CNN sources. Spicey denies all.

• Told Breitbart News that the "intent" of the New York Times in its negative coverage of him is "so evil and so bad" and that "they write lies."
Cabinet

• Wilbur Ross was confirmed as Commerce Secretary by a 72-27 vote.

• CBS's Major Garrett – who broke the story that the Navy Secretary nominee was going to withdraw a week before it happened – is now reporting that Deputy Commerce Secretary nominee Todd Ricketts is also on the verge of withdrawing rather than disentangle himself from his businesses and holdings. The Ricketts family owns the Chicago Cubs and the family patriarch, Joe, founded the brokerage Ameritrade. A waiver could be obtained from the White House that would allow Ricketts to serve while recusing himself from matters that have a "direct and predictable effect on the employee's own financial interests," but his interests are so widespread as to potentially make fulfilling his duties effectively impossible.

• After meeting with leaders of Historically Black Colleges & Universities, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos issued a statement hailing HBCU as "pioneers when it comes to school choice" because "there were students... who did not have equal access to education" and "they saw that the system wasn't working... so they took it upon themselves to provide the solution."

That "system" was in fact Jim Crow which institutionalized racism in much of the country for generations. Most HBCUs were founded by Southern states to satisfy the requirements of the Morrill Act of 1890. It ordered states with segregated education systems to create new land grant universities if blacks were excluded from existing ones, or lose their federal funding. So far from Secretary DeVos' framing of HBCUs as entrepreneurial institutions filling a market niche, they were in fact a result of direct government efforts to ensure all citizens could receive a quality education.

• EPA Head Scott Pruitt lied to Congress during his confirmation hearing. In response to a direct question from Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ) he told the committee that he never used private e-mail for state business. The Oklahoma Attorney General's Office confirmed on Friday that he did in fact use his personal e-mail account to conduct state business.

Hate Watch

• Another week, another round of bomb threats to 23 Jewish community centers in 15 states. It's the fifth such time this year that babies in cribs had to be wheeled out into parking lots for safety.

• Hundreds of tombstones in a Jewish cemetery outside of Philadelphia were toppled this weekend.

• The President has yet to address the shooting of two Indians in Olathe, KS except through careful statements about "not wanting to get ahead of law enforcement" by the Press Secretary.

If he can manipulate his stubby digits enough to blast out "A new radical Islamic terrorist has just attacked in Louvre Museum in Paris" because someone heard the guy yell "Allahu akhbar," you'd think harassing two guys about their visa status and yelling "get out of my country" would also rate some sort of personal response.

The Hill

• Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-NJ), a member of the House Ways and Means Committee, brought the matter of obtaining the President's tax returns to a floor vote after being stymied in committee by the chairman, Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX). Under a 1924 law, the Ways and Means Committee is empowered to examine tax returns. The committee could then decide to release them to the full Congress, effectively making them public. The measure was defeated 229-185.

Russia

• Chairs of the House & Senate Intelligence Committees Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) and Sen. Richard Burr have committed themselves to the position that there was no contact between the campaign and Russia, which has been contradicted by U.S. phone intercepts, the Steele Dossier, and statements by Russian officials. Clearly they can not be counted on to provide unbiased investigation (Nunes was part of the President's transition team, Burr co-chaired the President's $50,000 per plate "Victory Fund" dinner).

• Nunes also said he is not going to subpoena the President's tax returns.

Spicey Meatball

• Asked for a response to Rep. Darrell Issa's (R-CA) call for a special prosecutor on Russia, Spicey shot back, "A Special Prosecutor for what? ... Russia's involvement has been investigated up and down... How many people have to say there's nothing there before you realize there's nothing there?"

Ask. Hillary.

Budget

• Details about the President's budget are trickling out. They are proposing to up Pentagon budget by $54 billion, which is about the amount of the entire State Dept budget plus foreign aid spending and EPA budget. He will also seek $30 billion in supplemental defense appropriations for the FY 2017 year.
Don't forget that we already spend as much on defense as the next seven nations combined - and that includes Russia.

• And with those details come the cracks in the GOP. Congressional members are reportedly not pleased that domestic programs are being cut to pay for the military buildup and aren't sure where you'd even find $54 billion. Others are upset Medicare & Social Security are not being reformed. At the other end of the spectrum, people like John McCain are angry that the defense spending isn't *higher.*

SCOTUS

• Sen. Mark Udall (D-UT) proposed that Judge Merrick Garland & Judge Neil Gorsuch be placed on the Supreme Court at the same time, if one of the liberal judges would resign at the end of the term. This was literally the plot of an episode of The West Wing.

Hey, It's That Guy

• Former President George W. Bush gave an interview to the "Today" show where, despite professing that he does not want to "assume a more active leadership role" in the wake of the current President's shambolic first month, he levied some rather harsh (though hypocritical) criticisms:

• "I think we all need answers" on the relationship between Russia and the Trump campaign.

• A free press is "indispensable to democracy," and, "it's kind of hard to tell others to have an independent, free press when we're not willing to have one ourselves."

(The U.S. has bombed Al Jazeera offices in Afghanistan & Iraq and Bush allegedly asked in 2004 about attacking their HQ in Qatar but was talked down by British PM Tony Blair)

• Bonus: "We need an independent media to hold people like me to account."

(Too bad we never got that because the GOP was running around yelling that any criticism of the President during wartime was unpatriotic and the aw-shucks demeanor put everyone off their guard.)

This has been Day 39 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2017, 01:36:04 AM
Trump and his minions are apparently trying to pin the blame for the surge in attacks on Jewish businesses and graveyards as being orchestrated by the Democrats. No evidence whatsoever of course, and apparently he can't see any connection between his rhetoric and his campaign and his courting of the alt-right, along with using their cheerleader in chief as his right hand man, and these attacks.

And of course he's had little to nothing to say on the yahoo who murdered the Indian immigrant and wounded his friend and a good samaritan In Kansas City while yelling at them to get out of his country.

Can you imagine if it had been a muslim who committed the murder, or an undocumentation Latino? Wouldn't be long getting on the auld Twitter then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 05:16:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 01:36:04 AM
Trump and his minions are apparently trying to pin the blame for the surge in attacks on Jewish businesses and graveyards as being orchestrated by the Democrats. No evidence whatsoever of course, and apparently he can't see any connection between his rhetoric and his campaign and his courting of the alt-right, along with using their cheerleader in chief as his right hand man, and these attacks.

And of course he's had little to nothing to say on the yahoo who murdered the Indian immigrant and wounded his friend and a good samaritan In Kansas City while yelling at them to get out of his country.

Can you imagine if it had been a muslim who committed the murder, or an undocumentation Latino? Wouldn't be long getting on the auld Twitter then.
Ann Coulter stoked up the Base with a comment about "f**king Jews " . Bannon takes about the globalist corporatist enemy. Loads of code words for supporters to act on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on March 01, 2017, 07:43:45 AM
This Jewish thing is bizarre, I mean how do they even dream it up? Jews in America are straight up and down mainstream, the only place I can see as the source of this hatred is alignment to the Nazis (which in turn seems to stem from black prejudice) and this David Ike type conspiracy theories.

Obviously Trump is not anti Jew but after watching Trump this past month, doing a bit of research on Bannon and watching his talk last week I'm starting to lean towards that he is pulling all the strings on Trump and that he is at heart a Fascist. He reckons hes gonna break up the institutions in DC but I can't figure out what Bannon's long term goal is...isolate America from the world for the good of America, get rid of all the emigrants who dont want to adhere to Navajo, Sioux, Cherokee culture...what comes after that Im intrigued?

IN preperation I found a facebook from where I can learn  Tongvan. https://www.facebook.com/TongvaLanguage?ref=br_tf
Hopefully I will be able to learn enough of it to communicate with and get my weans a bit of a head start before federal enforcement of it as the medium language for public schools comes into place in Socal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2017, 11:22:52 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on March 01, 2017, 07:43:45 AM

Obviously Trump is not anti Jew
If you make anti-semitic tweets, say thinly veiled anti-semitic things, dismiss anti-semitism, and then suggest Jews themselves may actually be responsible for anti-semitic attacks, that makes you an anti-semite, I would have thought.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 12:18:23 PM
Bannon is a white nationalist. The Muslim ban is his idea. White nationalists want no more immigration and are at war with diversity and liberalism . Jews are identified with liberalism. Bannon wrote Trump's last campaign ad which was heavy on the antisemitism . It is quite scary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 01:01:24 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.
Richard Spencer wants to create the conditions in which a white US is possible. Bannon wants a holy war. . De Vos Wants to privatisé education. Cohn wants the 1% to own more. Trump.wants to cut taxes for billionaires.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 01, 2017, 01:12:53 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.


I agree with that, easytiger, except that the relevant comparison is not that between Hitler and Trump but the one between Hitler and Bannon. Trump has no ideology that I can discern other than self-aggrandisement. As I've said before, he is the proverbial useful idiot - a mouthpiece for Bannon, Mercer et al, that they could't have designed better if they had set out to do it.

But it just fell into their laps as Trump careered through the primaries and I'm sure they were as surprised as anyone else when he ended up as the candidate. It didn't take them long to realise their good fortune. Suddenly Mercer is funding Trump's campaign and suddenly his close associate Bannon, out of nowhere, is the Chief Strategist - part of the funding deal, I presume.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2017, 01:12:53 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.


I agree with that, easytiger, except that the relevant comparison is not that between Hitler and Trump but the one between Hitler and Bannon. Trump has no ideology that I can discern other than self-aggrandisement. As I've said before, he is the proverbial useful idiot - a mouthpiece for Bannon, Mercer et al, that they could't have designed better if they had set out to do it.

But it just fell into their laps as Trump careered through the primaries and I'm sure they were as surprised as anyone else when he ended up as the candidate. It didn't take them long to realise their good fortune. Suddenly Mercer is funding Trump's campaign and suddenly his close associate Bannon, out of nowhere, is the Chief Strategist - part of the funding deal, I presume.
I think US institutions and civil society are stronger than the German equivalents were in the 1930s.
Listening to Bannon and Miller it is clear  they are nuts.
GOP voters will not be lied to about health insurance. The lack of payrises is another toxic issue that Trump won't address.
I could see the Revolution dying in the 2018 midterms. The GOP has been whining about Obamacare for maybe 6 years but had no coherent alternative. I don't think the GOP expected Trump to win. So they weren't ready. A bit like Galway winning a hurling semi final. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2017, 02:29:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2017, 01:12:53 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.


I agree with that, easytiger, except that the relevant comparison is not that between Hitler and Trump but the one between Hitler and Bannon. Trump has no ideology that I can discern other than self-aggrandisement. As I've said before, he is the proverbial useful idiot - a mouthpiece for Bannon, Mercer et al, that they could't have designed better if they had set out to do it.

But it just fell into their laps as Trump careered through the primaries and I'm sure they were as surprised as anyone else when he ended up as the candidate. It didn't take them long to realise their good fortune. Suddenly Mercer is funding Trump's campaign and suddenly his close associate Bannon, out of nowhere, is the Chief Strategist - part of the funding deal, I presume.
I think US institutions and civil society are stronger than the German equivalents were in the 1930s.
Listening to Bannon and Miller it is clear  they are nuts.
GOP voters will not be lied to about health insurance. The lack of payrises is another toxic issue that Trump won't address.
I could see the Revolution dying in the 2018 midterms. The GOP has been whining about Obamacare for maybe 6 years but had no coherent alternative. I don't think the GOP expected Trump to win. So they weren't ready. A bit like Galway winning a hurling semi final.
Republican members of Congress may well become the enemy du jour for Trumps tweets in the near future.

Hopefully he'll end up splitting and destroying the party.

It would be an excellent thing for humanity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 01, 2017, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 01, 2017, 02:29:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2017, 01:12:53 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.


I agree with that, easytiger, except that the relevant comparison is not that between Hitler and Trump but the one between Hitler and Bannon. Trump has no ideology that I can discern other than self-aggrandisement. As I've said before, he is the proverbial useful idiot - a mouthpiece for Bannon, Mercer et al, that they could't have designed better if they had set out to do it.

But it just fell into their laps as Trump careered through the primaries and I'm sure they were as surprised as anyone else when he ended up as the candidate. It didn't take them long to realise their good fortune. Suddenly Mercer is funding Trump's campaign and suddenly his close associate Bannon, out of nowhere, is the Chief Strategist - part of the funding deal, I presume.
I think US institutions and civil society are stronger than the German equivalents were in the 1930s.
Listening to Bannon and Miller it is clear  they are nuts.
GOP voters will not be lied to about health insurance. The lack of payrises is another toxic issue that Trump won't address.
I could see the Revolution dying in the 2018 midterms. The GOP has been whining about Obamacare for maybe 6 years but had no coherent alternative. I don't think the GOP expected Trump to win. So they weren't ready. A bit like Galway winning a hurling semi final.
Republican members of Congress may well become the enemy du jour for Trumps tweets in the near future.

Hopefully he'll end up splitting and destroying the party.

It would be an excellent thing for humanity.

You're dead right.....decades of the Democratic Patry's progressive agenda have just worked out so well for the people of Chicago, Baltimore and Detroit.

One Party Rule, rules......keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 05:31:19 PM
Whitey,

The Dems introduced social security, Medicare and Obamacare (v popular in GOP states)

What much loved innovations did the GOP introduce in the last century?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2017, 05:53:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 05:31:19 PM
Whitey,

The Dems introduced social security, Medicare and Obamacare (v popular in GOP states)

What much loved innovations did the GOP introduce in the last century?

To be fair, Nixon signed into law the bills from the congress creating the EPA, OSHA, the original Clean Air and Clean Water Acts.

Its a shame the current GOP is so set on gutting health, safety and environmental protection laws, as well as hoping to privatize federal lands or expand drilling and oil mining in them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 07:20:38 PM
How funny was it to watch Pelosi, Warren & co sit through President Trumps first address of congress?

You could tell how angry they were. You could see the veins in their turkey necks sticking out. Even that ***** Lewis sitting with the big ugly head on him refusing to clap the president.
Democrats they sure ain't.

Here's a wee summary of what Democrats don't like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxn0aYehu1s

Democrats are a disgrace. Priorities are so fucked up.
Trump nailed it last night but I guess the nazi/fascist spin will be added by loony lefties. I heard nothing of the sort being mentioned in the speech but some of you tulips will no doubt make such claims.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

Typical liberal- Quick, quick, quick - shout racist!!

YOU brought up Leslie Jones - so you can't make a comment about her in response? Is that the way it works for you liberals?

Well played J70.

(http://thoughtcrimes.shugartmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/race-card.jpg)

Well played indeed!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

Typical liberal- Quick, quick, quick - shout racist!!

YOU brought up Leslie Jones - so you can't make a comment about her in response? Is that the way it works for you liberals?

Well played J70.

(http://thoughtcrimes.shugartmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/race-card.jpg)

Well played indeed!

I brought up Leslie Jones in reference to Yiannopolous and his downfall giving her cause for satisfaction.

The only thing you felt worthy of comment was Jones and her appearance (what was it you said? her/he/it or something?). Nothing whatsoever on Milo and the reason she should feel a little smug.

One of the constants of the board is that you never fail to stick the boot in, usually in a pathetic idiotic manner, when it comes to black people. Lewis, a man whose boots I'd say just about none of us are fit to tie, being just the latest example.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 01, 2017, 08:20:54 PM
QuoteDreadful comedian/comedienne/other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 08:32:20 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 01, 2017, 08:20:54 PM
QuoteDreadful comedian/comedienne/other.

It's pretty pathetic that you felt the need to do his admin for him. Sad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 08:37:23 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/03/state-department-trump/517965/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2017, 08:38:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 08:32:20 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 01, 2017, 08:20:54 PM
QuoteDreadful comedian/comedienne/other.

It's pretty pathetic that you felt the need to do his admin for him. Sad.
Anything to say about Trump suggesting Jews were to blame for the anti-semitic attacks on cemeteries, mate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

Typical liberal- Quick, quick, quick - shout racist!!

YOU brought up Leslie Jones - so you can't make a comment about her in response? Is that the way it works for you liberals?

Well played J70.

(http://thoughtcrimes.shugartmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/race-card.jpg)

Well played indeed!

I brought up Leslie Jones in reference to Yiannopolous and his downfall giving her cause for satisfaction.

The only thing you felt worthy of comment was Jones and her appearance (what was it you said? her/he/it or something?). Nothing whatsoever on Milo and the reason she should feel a little smug.

One of the constants of the board is that you never fail to stick the boot in, usually in a pathetic idiotic manner, when it comes to black people. Lewis, a man whose boots I'd say just about none of us are fit to tie, being just the latest example.

I  never mentioned anything about Jones' appearance. Have you watched her comedy?
Your lickspittle Gabriel also was selective on his cut and paste. You said Jones would chuckle at Milo and I replied that it's the only laugh she is ever likely to hear. THEN i said she was terrible etc. Which she is. 

You seem fixated on race. Then again you are one of these morons who believe white privelege crap.

Lewis's actions in the last few months have said enough about him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

Typical liberal- Quick, quick, quick - shout racist!!

YOU brought up Leslie Jones - so you can't make a comment about her in response? Is that the way it works for you liberals?

Well played J70.

(http://thoughtcrimes.shugartmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/race-card.jpg)

Well played indeed!

I brought up Leslie Jones in reference to Yiannopolous and his downfall giving her cause for satisfaction.

The only thing you felt worthy of comment was Jones and her appearance (what was it you said? her/he/it or something?). Nothing whatsoever on Milo and the reason she should feel a little smug.

One of the constants of the board is that you never fail to stick the boot in, usually in a pathetic idiotic manner, when it comes to black people. Lewis, a man whose boots I'd say just about none of us are fit to tie, being just the latest example.

I  never mentioned anything about Jones' appearance. Have you watched her comedy?

You seem fixated on race.

Lewis's actions in the last few months have said enough about him.

Hey, feel free to explain "comedian/comedienne/other" or how that should be interpreted if not a comment on her appearance.

What has Lewis done in the last few months?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2017, 08:47:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 08:39:32 PM

Lewis's actions in the last few months have said enough about him.
What do you think about Trump's actions in the last few months? Or the last year and few months?

What do you think those actions say about him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 09:12:25 PM
https://theintercept.com/2017/02/28/donald-trumps-economic-policy-team-is-stacked-with-lobbyists-and-conflicts-of-interest/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2017, 09:25:20 PM
Who cares? I mean, the Dems sat on their hands (and some laughed!) when Trump talked about draining the swamp last night! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2017, 01:43:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 09:25:20 PM
Who cares? I mean, the Dems sat on their hands (and some laughed!) when Trump talked about draining the swamp last night! ;D
The Dem leadership made sure Ellison wasn't chosen to head the DNC.  Plutocracy rules
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2017, 02:32:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2017, 01:43:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 09:25:20 PM
Who cares? I mean, the Dems sat on their hands (and some laughed!) when Trump talked about draining the swamp last night! ;D
The Dem leadership made sure Ellison wasn't chosen to head the DNC.  Plutocracy rules

I'm happy with Perez. And Perez did the right thing by making Ellision Deputy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2017, 06:14:50 AM
Sessions the AG lied about not meeting the Russians. Very interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 02, 2017, 08:57:17 AM
When to the Sessions of sweet silent thought
I summon up remembrance of things past,
I sigh the lack of the truthfulness you sought,
And with new lies leave everyone aghast.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 02, 2017, 09:04:33 AM
He got a few hours of praise for the speech anyway . . . "A well oiled machine"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/02/jeff-sessions-russian-ambassador-trump-campaign
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 02, 2017, 10:21:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

Wise up you clown! When has he ever said anything racist on here???

You are seeing things that arent there at this stage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2017, 12:52:03 PM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2017, 10:21:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

Wise up you clown! When has he ever said anything racist on here???

You are seeing things that arent there at this stage.

Where did I say he says anything racist?

I said he never misses an opportunity to stick the boot in when it comes to black people or issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 02, 2017, 01:42:10 PM
This Sessions thing is gas - It appears he said "I did not have communication relations with that Russian" Presumably Ken Starr is on speed dial
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2017, 01:51:52 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 02, 2017, 01:42:10 PM
This Sessions thing is gas - It appears he said "I did not have communication relations with that Russian" Presumably Ken Starr is on speed dial
They are obviously hiding something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 02, 2017, 02:29:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2017, 01:12:53 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.


I agree with that, easytiger, except that the relevant comparison is not that between Hitler and Trump but the one between Hitler and Bannon. Trump has no ideology that I can discern other than self-aggrandisement. As I've said before, he is the proverbial useful idiot - a mouthpiece for Bannon, Mercer et al, that they could't have designed better if they had set out to do it.

But it just fell into their laps as Trump careered through the primaries and I'm sure they were as surprised as anyone else when he ended up as the candidate. It didn't take them long to realise their good fortune. Suddenly Mercer is funding Trump's campaign and suddenly his close associate Bannon, out of nowhere, is the Chief Strategist - part of the funding deal, I presume.

That's the point I was trying to make Whitey, sorry if it wasn't clear in the original post. Trump (as his construction career shows) is not discerning about what he puts his name to. It is the guys in the shadows we need to watch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 02, 2017, 03:14:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 02, 2017, 02:29:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2017, 01:12:53 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.


I agree with that, easytiger, except that the relevant comparison is not that between Hitler and Trump but the one between Hitler and Bannon. Trump has no ideology that I can discern other than self-aggrandisement. As I've said before, he is the proverbial useful idiot - a mouthpiece for Bannon, Mercer et al, that they could't have designed better if they had set out to do it.

But it just fell into their laps as Trump careered through the primaries and I'm sure they were as surprised as anyone else when he ended up as the candidate. It didn't take them long to realise their good fortune. Suddenly Mercer is funding Trump's campaign and suddenly his close associate Bannon, out of nowhere, is the Chief Strategist - part of the funding deal, I presume.

That's the point I was trying to make Whitey, sorry if it wasn't clear in the original post. Trump (as his construction career shows) is not discerning about what he puts his name to. It is the guys in the shadows we need to watch.


??!!!???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

Typical liberal- Quick, quick, quick - shout racist!!

YOU brought up Leslie Jones - so you can't make a comment about her in response? Is that the way it works for you liberals?

Well played J70.

(http://thoughtcrimes.shugartmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/race-card.jpg)

Well played indeed!

I brought up Leslie Jones in reference to Yiannopolous and his downfall giving her cause for satisfaction.

The only thing you felt worthy of comment was Jones and her appearance (what was it you said? her/he/it or something?). Nothing whatsoever on Milo and the reason she should feel a little smug.

One of the constants of the board is that you never fail to stick the boot in, usually in a pathetic idiotic manner, when it comes to black people. Lewis, a man whose boots I'd say just about none of us are fit to tie, being just the latest example.

I  never mentioned anything about Jones' appearance. Have you watched her comedy?

You seem fixated on race.

Lewis's actions in the last few months have said enough about him.

Hey, feel free to explain "comedian/comedienne/other" or how that should be interpreted if not a comment on her appearance.

What has Lewis done in the last few months?

See J70, your response is exactly what is wrong with liberals at the moment. Rather than read what has actually been written you've created your own version of the story and then try to pass it off as some racist comment to demonise others who don't share your world view.

To explain "comedian/comedienne/other" - I went down the PC route (as you guys prefer) as I'm not sure what she would label herself as - similar to actresses wanting to call themselves actors so as not identifying by gender or if they prefer to give themselves a different title (other) such as thesbian etc.
Even when following your rules you get all up in a heap!! Can't win eh?

How you managed to read it and turn this into a race or appearance slur shows exactly your mindset. Or shall I put it down to your reading ability? ;)

Senator Lewis acted disgracefully when his inauguration snub prompted many more politicians to follow his lead to boycott in fear of them being called racists for attending. For a guy who championed Civil rights he smacks of an agitator now. It's a $$$$ industry with Jesse and Al and lots of power that goes with it. You should wake up and see it for what it is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2017, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

Typical liberal- Quick, quick, quick - shout racist!!

YOU brought up Leslie Jones - so you can't make a comment about her in response? Is that the way it works for you liberals?

Well played J70.

(http://thoughtcrimes.shugartmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/race-card.jpg)

Well played indeed!

I brought up Leslie Jones in reference to Yiannopolous and his downfall giving her cause for satisfaction.

The only thing you felt worthy of comment was Jones and her appearance (what was it you said? her/he/it or something?). Nothing whatsoever on Milo and the reason she should feel a little smug.

One of the constants of the board is that you never fail to stick the boot in, usually in a pathetic idiotic manner, when it comes to black people. Lewis, a man whose boots I'd say just about none of us are fit to tie, being just the latest example.

I  never mentioned anything about Jones' appearance. Have you watched her comedy?

You seem fixated on race.

Lewis's actions in the last few months have said enough about him.

Hey, feel free to explain "comedian/comedienne/other" or how that should be interpreted if not a comment on her appearance.

What has Lewis done in the last few months?

See J70, your response is exactly what is wrong with liberals at the moment. Rather than read what has actually been written you've created your own version of the story and then try to pass it off as some racist comment to demonise others who don't share your world view.

To explain "comedian/comedienne/other" - I went down the PC route (as you guys prefer) as I'm not sure what she would label herself as - similar to actresses wanting to call themselves actors so as not identifying by gender or if they prefer to give themselves a different title (other) such as thesbian etc.
Even when following your rules you get all up in a heap!! Can't win eh?

Ok, I'll take you at your word. That is fair enough.

Not sure how those are MY rules though.

Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 03:33:42 PM
How you managed to read it and turn this into a race or appearance slur shows exactly your mindset. Or shall I put it down to your reading ability? ;)

Senator Lewis acted disgracefully when his inauguration snub prompted many more politicians to follow his lead to boycott in fear of them being called racists for attending. For a guy who championed Civil rights he smacks of an agitator now. It's a $$$$ industry with Jesse and Al and lots of power that goes with it. You should wake up and see it for what it is.

Lewis responded to Trump's campaign, which was a disgrace, and the Russian interference. Not saying I would have done the same, but I don't represent his constituency nor have I lived his life. Nothing which has happened since in terms of Trump's rhetoric and conduct contradicts his decision.

And far more Dems attended the inauguration than didn't. Nor have I heard of any of them being called racists for attending. And a lot of them dropped out after Trump's ludicrous, over the top, attack on Lewis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2017, 05:07:12 PM
David Remnick on Trump from 2 months ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK0-Rqeb7Mo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 05:14:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2017, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 01, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Right, because the GOP gave Obama nonstop ovations during his speeches. ::)

At least the Dems didn't shout "you lie!"

And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

Typical liberal- Quick, quick, quick - shout racist!!

YOU brought up Leslie Jones - so you can't make a comment about her in response? Is that the way it works for you liberals?

Well played J70.

(http://thoughtcrimes.shugartmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/race-card.jpg)

Well played indeed!

I brought up Leslie Jones in reference to Yiannopolous and his downfall giving her cause for satisfaction.

The only thing you felt worthy of comment was Jones and her appearance (what was it you said? her/he/it or something?). Nothing whatsoever on Milo and the reason she should feel a little smug.

One of the constants of the board is that you never fail to stick the boot in, usually in a pathetic idiotic manner, when it comes to black people. Lewis, a man whose boots I'd say just about none of us are fit to tie, being just the latest example.

I  never mentioned anything about Jones' appearance. Have you watched her comedy?

You seem fixated on race.

Lewis's actions in the last few months have said enough about him.

Hey, feel free to explain "comedian/comedienne/other" or how that should be interpreted if not a comment on her appearance.

What has Lewis done in the last few months?

See J70, your response is exactly what is wrong with liberals at the moment. Rather than read what has actually been written you've created your own version of the story and then try to pass it off as some racist comment to demonise others who don't share your world view.

To explain "comedian/comedienne/other" - I went down the PC route (as you guys prefer) as I'm not sure what she would label herself as - similar to actresses wanting to call themselves actors so as not identifying by gender or if they prefer to give themselves a different title (other) such as thesbian etc.
Even when following your rules you get all up in a heap!! Can't win eh?

Ok, I'll take you at your word. That is fair enough.

Not sure how those are MY rules though.

Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 03:33:42 PM
How you managed to read it and turn this into a race or appearance slur shows exactly your mindset. Or shall I put it down to your reading ability? ;)

Senator Lewis acted disgracefully when his inauguration snub prompted many more politicians to follow his lead to boycott in fear of them being called racists for attending. For a guy who championed Civil rights he smacks of an agitator now. It's a $$$$ industry with Jesse and Al and lots of power that goes with it. You should wake up and see it for what it is.

Lewis responded to Trump's campaign, which was a disgrace, and the Russian interference. Not saying I would have done the same, but I don't represent his constituency nor have I lived his life. Nothing which has happened since in terms of Trump's rhetoric and conduct contradicts his decision.

And far more Dems attended the inauguration than didn't. Nor have I heard of any of them being called racists for attending. And a lot of them dropped out after Trump's ludicrous, over the top, attack on Lewis.


Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
And once again, foxcommander singles out the black person or issue for a special bit of vitriol. John Lewis this week, Leslie Jones last. Who's next?

An apology from you would have been better.

Would you say I attacked Elizabeth Warren with a special bit of vitriol seeing as she's Native American?
But you have no issue with me having a go at Nancy Pelosi?

Can you see your pattern yet? I think you might be the racist Ted ;)

If you think that it doesn't play on Democrats minds that they need to follow the party line then you're kidding yourself. Lewis should have shown leadership in attending, even if he registered his disagreement. That's democracy. His actions have caused a wider split in society.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2017, 05:28:51 PM
David Frum on Twitter

14) Only brave individuals in national security roles sharing truth with news organizations.
13) So many in DC serenely promise that "checks and balances" will save us. But right now: there is no check and no balance.
12) Despite patriotic statements from individual GOPers, as of now it seems that Speaker Ryan & Leader McConnell agree: no looking.
11) And possibly even bigger. We won't know if we don't look
10) ... the biggest espionage scandal since the Rosenberg group stole the secret of the atomic bomb.
9) Meaning that Trump is rendering his party also complicit in what could well prove ...
8) The peculiar grim irony in this case is that somewhere near the center of Trump's story is the murky secret of Trump's Russia connection
7) ... they are not so well-built as to withstand an attack from a conscienceless president enabled by a hyper-partisan Congress
6) American institutions are built to withstand an attack from the president alone. But ...
5) Otherwise, they put at risk party hopes for a once-in-a-lifetime chance to remake US government in ways not very popular with voters
4) In turn, in order to protect their legally vulnerable leader, Republicans in Congress must join the attack on norms & institutions
3) In order to protect himself, Trump must attack American norms and institutions - otherwise he faces fathomless legal risk
2) Donald Trump is a uniquely dangerous president because he harbors so many guilty secrets (or maybe 1 big guilty secret).
1) Sessions story today is a sinister confirmation of central thesis of my autocracy article:
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2017, 05:45:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 05:14:34 PM

An apology from you would have been better.

Would you say I attacked Elizabeth Warren with a special bit of vitriol seeing as she's Native American?
But you have no issue with me having a go at Nancy Pelosi?

Can you see your pattern yet? I think you might be the racist Ted ;)

If you think that it doesn't play on Democrats minds that they need to follow the party line then you're kidding yourself. Lewis should have shown leadership in attending, even if he registered his disagreement. That's democracy. His actions have caused a wider split in society.

You came up with a plausible explanation for the Leslie Jones one. That doesn't really detract from your pattern though of crawling out of the woodwork whenever a BLM issue or black criminal issue comes up or trying to deny or minimize the reality of the prejudice that black people have and continue to face, saying its all a con-job perpetrated by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Or your (drunken?) rant a few weeks about liberals wanting the extinction of white males??  ;D And even in the Lewis post, WTF is *****? Why single him out from "Pelosi, Warren and co"? Was his inauguration boycott really THAT upsetting to you? Are you seriously going to talk about Lewis and "splits in society" after the Trump campaign and now administration, steered by Bannon?

Perhaps you have a communication issue, like Trump claims he has. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2017, 06:02:23 PM
Glenn Greenwald's site is fabliss

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/02/crony-capitalism-at-work-trump-adviser-carl-icahn-strong-arms-ethanol-lobby-to-save-his-company-millions/

Crony Capitalism at Work? Trump Adviser Carl Icahn Strong-Arms Ethanol Lobby to Save His Company Millions

David Dayen
March 2 2017, 2:53 p.m.
Critics are charging that billionaire investor Carl Icahn has used his position as Donald Trump's deregulatory czar to strong-arm the ethanol lobby into agreeing to a change that will save one of Icahn's companies $200 million a year.
If so, this would be the most obvious example yet of crony capitalism in the Trump era.
Trump named Icahn as deregulatory czar in December, saying he would be "a leader in helping American entrepreneurs shed job-killing regulations that stifle economic growth." But because Icahn was a "special adviser" to the president with no formal White House position, the administration said he did not have to divest from any of his prodigious financial holdings. At the time, observers noted that Icahn would have a perfect opportunity to advise on deregulatory actions that would line his own pockets.
Tyson Slocum, director of the Energy Program at Public Citizen, said that is exactly what has come to pass. "There's no question that Icahn is playing a very big role here," he said. "People need to call it what it is, the administration manipulating the system."
The backdrop for this drama is the government's renewable fuel standard, which requires all gasoline sold in America to contain a minimum volume of renewable sources — generally corn-based ethanol.
One of the more arcane elements of the current rule is that oil refiners are responsible to make sure the rule is followed — not the gasoline wholesalers (or "blenders").
Icahn is the majority owner of CVR Energy, a refiner which does not have the infrastructure to blend ethanol. As a result, CVR must buy renewable fuel credits to comply with their obligation.
In its most recent SEC filing, CVR stated it spent $205.9 million last year on renewable fuel credits. Shifting the point of obligation to blenders would relieve CVR of that expense. "That's big money, even to a billionaire," Slocum told The Intercept.
Not surprisingly, Icahn has long wanted the renewable-fuels industry to agree that the obligation should belong to the wholesalers, not the refiners.
And all of a sudden this week, the top renewable-fuels trade organization reversed its previous position and announced that it had reached an agreement with Icahn, on his terms.
The excitement began Monday night, when Politico Pro reported the Trump administration would soon issue an executive order moving that obligation to the wholesalers.
On Tuesday, a Trump spokesperson denied an executive order was imminent. But the same day, the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA), the ethanol industry's top trade group, struck a deal with Icahn, agreeing to change the point of obligation in exchange for an increase to how much ethanol must be placed in gasoline. Under the deal, the 15 percent ethanol blend, or E15, would be mandatory year-round; currently that mandate is relaxed in the summertime.
This would also financially benefit Valero Energy, the oil giant that, like Icahn, owns refineries that cannot blend ethanol. Valero's renewable division recently joined RFA, becoming its largest member. Icahn Enterprises and Valero did not respond to a request for comment.
Icahn, Valero, and RFA presented the deal to the Trump administration, complete with draft language for an executive order. Ethanol companies immediately savaged the agreement, saying it would throw the renewable fuels market into turmoil and potentially cost consumers more — all to give Icahn and Valero a payday.
Jeff Broin, CEO of Poet, the nation's largest ethanol producer, said in a statement, "It's a bailout. This was a back-room 'deal' made by people who want out of their obligations under the Clean Air Act."
The Fuels America coalition, another industry player, went so far as to sever ties with RFA, saying they were "no longer aligned with America's biofuel industry." Emily Skor of Growth Energy, a biofuels advocate, was more blunt: "I assure you this is no deal for anyone but Carl Icahn."
The controversy deepened when Bob Dinneen, president and CEO of RFA, told Bloomberg that he made the deal because "I was told in no uncertain terms that the point of obligation was going to be moved, and I said I wanted to see one of our top agenda items moved." He added that he was "told the executive order was not negotiable." This backed RFA into a corner, forcing it to join with Icahn to get something out of the deal.
Dinneen did not say who told him about the executive order, or what role Icahn may have played.
Update: March 2, 2017, 11:33 a.m.
RFA President and CEO Bob Dinneen released the following statement to The Intercept: "We received a call from an official with the Trump administration, informing us that a pending executive order would change the point of obligation from refiners to position holders at the terminal, a potentially small increase in the number of obligated parties, but one which would distribute the obligation more equitably. Despite our continued opposition to the move, we were told the executive order was not negotiable. Our top priority this year is to ensure consumers have year-round access to E15 (15% ethanol) and we would like the Trump administration to help cut through the red tape on this unnecessary regulation. Consumers are being denied access to the fuel blend due to EPA's nonsensical disparate treatment of E10 and E15 with regard to volatility regulations, preventing E15 from being sold during the summer. We will continue to do everything we can to ensure consumers have access to the lowest cost, cleanest, highest octane source of fuel in the world, and to ensure a strong RFS is maintained."
On Tuesday, Public Citizen called on the Justice Department to "launch an immediate investigation into the role Mr. Icahn played during the transition and currently plays as a formal adviser to the president."
There were already signs that Icahn had influenced Trump on this particular issue. Last September, the campaign posted an unusually technical policy platform supporting Icahn's preferred point of obligation change. After it was discovered, the campaign took it down within hours. Icahn also was reportedly involved in vetting Trump's choice of Scott Pruitt as Environmental Protection Agency administrator. Pruitt would have the ultimate authority to make the new rules Icahn seeks.
"From Icahn's point of view, you want to make it clear that the administration is going to move on this," said Slocum. "The easiest way is to create buzz about the executive order." Putting the industry's biggest trade group on the side of something Icahn wants increases the odds of success. Securing agreement with RFA also stops it from taking legal action if the point of obligation is changed.
Both Republican senators from Iowa, the nation's leading biofuel state, oppose the change Icahn wants. Sen. Joni Ernst called it something that would benefit "a select few."
"When Trump gave him a title, he conveyed a formal role to Icahn for formulating policy," said Slocum. "And Icahn is formulating policy to benefit his direct financial interests."
Top photo: Carl Icahn in New York in 2010.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 06:23:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2017, 05:45:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 05:14:34 PM

An apology from you would have been better.

Would you say I attacked Elizabeth Warren with a special bit of vitriol seeing as she's Native American?
But you have no issue with me having a go at Nancy Pelosi?

Can you see your pattern yet? I think you might be the racist Ted ;)

If you think that it doesn't play on Democrats minds that they need to follow the party line then you're kidding yourself. Lewis should have shown leadership in attending, even if he registered his disagreement. That's democracy. His actions have caused a wider split in society.

You came up with a plausible explanation for the Leslie Jones one. That doesn't really detract from your pattern though of crawling out of the woodwork whenever a BLM issue or black criminal issue comes up or trying to deny or minimize the reality of the prejudice that black people have and continue to face, saying its all a con-job perpetrated by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Or your (drunken?) rant a few weeks about liberals wanting the extinction of white males??  ;D And even in the Lewis post, WTF is *****? Why single him out from "Pelosi, Warren and co"? Was his inauguration boycott really THAT upsetting to you? Are you seriously going to talk about Lewis and "splits in society" after the Trump campaign and now administration, steered by Bannon?

Perhaps you have a communication issue, like Trump claims he has. ;)

People who can't read would be deemed to have communication issues. Next time try not make stuff up and look at what's actually on the screen.

You can apologise on a private message if it saves face for you ;)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2017, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 06:23:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2017, 05:45:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 05:14:34 PM

An apology from you would have been better.

Would you say I attacked Elizabeth Warren with a special bit of vitriol seeing as she's Native American?
But you have no issue with me having a go at Nancy Pelosi?

Can you see your pattern yet? I think you might be the racist Ted ;)

If you think that it doesn't play on Democrats minds that they need to follow the party line then you're kidding yourself. Lewis should have shown leadership in attending, even if he registered his disagreement. That's democracy. His actions have caused a wider split in society.

You came up with a plausible explanation for the Leslie Jones one. That doesn't really detract from your pattern though of crawling out of the woodwork whenever a BLM issue or black criminal issue comes up or trying to deny or minimize the reality of the prejudice that black people have and continue to face, saying its all a con-job perpetrated by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Or your (drunken?) rant a few weeks about liberals wanting the extinction of white males??  ;D And even in the Lewis post, WTF is *****? Why single him out from "Pelosi, Warren and co"? Was his inauguration boycott really THAT upsetting to you? Are you seriously going to talk about Lewis and "splits in society" after the Trump campaign and now administration, steered by Bannon?

Perhaps you have a communication issue, like Trump claims he has. ;)

People who can't read would be deemed to have communication issues. Next time try not make stuff up and look at what's actually on the screen.

You can apologise on a private message if it saves face for you ;)

Hey, I've no problem apologizing, pubicly, when it is warranted.

So, taking you at your word, I apologize to you, foxcommander, for misinterpreting your Leslie Jones post.

The rest... I stand by completely.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 06:55:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2017, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 06:23:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2017, 05:45:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2017, 05:14:34 PM

An apology from you would have been better.

Would you say I attacked Elizabeth Warren with a special bit of vitriol seeing as she's Native American?
But you have no issue with me having a go at Nancy Pelosi?

Can you see your pattern yet? I think you might be the racist Ted ;)

If you think that it doesn't play on Democrats minds that they need to follow the party line then you're kidding yourself. Lewis should have shown leadership in attending, even if he registered his disagreement. That's democracy. His actions have caused a wider split in society.

You came up with a plausible explanation for the Leslie Jones one. That doesn't really detract from your pattern though of crawling out of the woodwork whenever a BLM issue or black criminal issue comes up or trying to deny or minimize the reality of the prejudice that black people have and continue to face, saying its all a con-job perpetrated by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Or your (drunken?) rant a few weeks about liberals wanting the extinction of white males??  ;D And even in the Lewis post, WTF is *****? Why single him out from "Pelosi, Warren and co"? Was his inauguration boycott really THAT upsetting to you? Are you seriously going to talk about Lewis and "splits in society" after the Trump campaign and now administration, steered by Bannon?

Perhaps you have a communication issue, like Trump claims he has. ;)

People who can't read would be deemed to have communication issues. Next time try not make stuff up and look at what's actually on the screen.

You can apologise on a private message if it saves face for you ;)

Hey, I've no problem apologizing, pubicly, when it is warranted.

So, taking you at your word, I apologize to you, foxcommander, for misinterpreting your Leslie Jones post.

The rest... I stand by completely.

Fair enough. Nobody said we have to agree.

Apology accepted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 03, 2017, 02:18:49 PM
Read and absorb liberals, you just might learn something!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2017, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: stew on March 03, 2017, 02:18:49 PM
Read and absorb liberals, you just might learn something!

At least I've got the balls to admit when I may have made a mistake. It's called honest debate.

Unlike yourself, who continually posts all kinds of unsupported, hysterical, conspiracy nonsense and never acknowledges when you're caught out or legitimately contradicted.

I mean, if you're going to single me out and gloat and all...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 03, 2017, 05:35:06 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 02, 2017, 03:14:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 02, 2017, 02:29:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2017, 01:12:53 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.


I agree with that, easytiger, except that the relevant comparison is not that between Hitler and Trump but the one between Hitler and Bannon. Trump has no ideology that I can discern other than self-aggrandisement. As I've said before, he is the proverbial useful idiot - a mouthpiece for Bannon, Mercer et al, that they could't have designed better if they had set out to do it.

But it just fell into their laps as Trump careered through the primaries and I'm sure they were as surprised as anyone else when he ended up as the candidate. It didn't take them long to realise their good fortune. Suddenly Mercer is funding Trump's campaign and suddenly his close associate Bannon, out of nowhere, is the Chief Strategist - part of the funding deal, I presume.

That's the point I was trying to make Whitey, sorry if it wasn't clear in the original post. Trump (as his construction career shows) is not discerning about what he puts his name to. It is the guys in the shadows we need to watch.


??!!!???

I was wondering why I was agreeing with whitey!!😁😁
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 03, 2017, 11:29:59 PM
I have to say I admire the size of the balls on Mike Pence using his private email server to conduct state business.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 09:03:17 AM
https://thebrokenelbow.com/2017/02/28/trumps-manifesto-for-a-white-supremacist-america/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 09:16:38 AM
This is excellent

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/28/magazine/jeff-sessions-stephen-bannon-justice-department.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 04, 2017, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 03, 2017, 05:35:06 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 02, 2017, 03:14:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 02, 2017, 02:29:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2017, 01:12:53 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
I have just started reading Andrew Lees' "The Holocaust" - it's a detailed history of the philosophy behind, lead up to, and events of, the Holocaust.

I'm only 50 pages in and still on Hitler's rise, and on at least 10 occasions so far, I've been stunned by the parallels between Hitler's methodology and Trump's. It is petrifying.

BUT... and it's a big but...Hitler was clearly a true believer, an ideologue who quite clearly wanted to fashion the world to his vision. Trump quite clearly is not. I don't doubt that he is racist (his court records prove it) or anti-Semitic (his speech to that Jewish organization last year before the election was incredible) but he is also dumb and selfish. He has no philosophy and why get rid of Jews and blacks when you can make money off them? Immigrants and Muslims - just keep them out.

Hitler was a different kettle of fish. The question for us all now is, just what kind of men his aides are, because the only logical reason they are there is to wield power whilst he golfs.


I agree with that, easytiger, except that the relevant comparison is not that between Hitler and Trump but the one between Hitler and Bannon. Trump has no ideology that I can discern other than self-aggrandisement. As I've said before, he is the proverbial useful idiot - a mouthpiece for Bannon, Mercer et al, that they could't have designed better if they had set out to do it.

But it just fell into their laps as Trump careered through the primaries and I'm sure they were as surprised as anyone else when he ended up as the candidate. It didn't take them long to realise their good fortune. Suddenly Mercer is funding Trump's campaign and suddenly his close associate Bannon, out of nowhere, is the Chief Strategist - part of the funding deal, I presume.

That's the point I was trying to make Whitey, sorry if it wasn't clear in the original post. Trump (as his construction career shows) is not discerning about what he puts his name to. It is the guys in the shadows we need to watch.


??!!!???

I was wondering why I was agreeing with whitey!!😁😁

And sorry - I did completely miss the last line of your post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 04, 2017, 12:28:35 PM
6 tweets this morning before 7am about Obama wiretapping his phone.

He's losing it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 01:00:57 PM
Is he trying to distract from the Russia thing maybe??

Be interesting to see how Pres. Obama handles this will he just dismiss it or make a big deal out of it and hold Trump to account??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
I wonder when Bernie will be holding a press conference to publicly amd forcefully disavow his supporter who was making the bomb threats to the Jewish Community centers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 01:00:57 PM
Is he trying to distract from the Russia thing maybe??

Be interesting to see how Pres. Obama handles this will he just dismiss it or make a big deal out of it and hold Trump to account??

I think Trump and Bannon have had it with the leaks and are going to go on offense big time......fasten your seatbelts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2017, 01:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
I wonder when Bernie will be holding a press conference to publicly amd forcefully disavow his supporter who was making the bomb threats to the Jewish Community centers

Did Bernie run a divisive campaign courting the alt right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2017, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 01:00:57 PM
Is he trying to distract from the Russia thing maybe??

Be interesting to see how Pres. Obama handles this will he just dismiss it or make a big deal out of it and hold Trump to account??

I think Trump and Bannon have had it with the leaks and are going to go on offense big time......fasten your seatbelts

Getting personal too, calling Obama a "bad (or sick) guy"!

If they were tapped, one would assume the Feds were listening in while looking into the Russia allegations.

Hard to see Obama being dumb enough to engage or get involved in Nixon type shit that was bound to come out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2017, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 01:00:57 PM
Is he trying to distract from the Russia thing maybe??

Be interesting to see how Pres. Obama handles this will he just dismiss it or make a big deal out of it and hold Trump to account??

I think Trump and Bannon have had it with the leaks and are going to go on offense big time......fasten your seatbelts

Getting personal too, calling Obama a "bad (or sick) guy"!

If they were tapped, one would assume the Feds were listening in while looking into the Russia allegations.

Hard to see Obama being dumb enough to engage or get involved in Nixon type shit that was bound to come out.

What if they tapped the Trump Tower and leaked info to Hillarys campaign?

Rachel Maddow was flashing a classified doc on air the other night....gloves off....brass knuckles on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 01:40:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2017, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 01:00:57 PM
Is he trying to distract from the Russia thing maybe??

Be interesting to see how Pres. Obama handles this will he just dismiss it or make a big deal out of it and hold Trump to account??

I think Trump and Bannon have had it with the leaks and are going to go on offense big time......fasten your seatbelts

Getting personal too, calling Obama a "bad (or sick) guy"!

If they were tapped, one would assume the Feds were listening in while looking into the Russia allegations.

Hard to see Obama being dumb enough to engage or get involved in Nixon type shit that was bound to come out.

What if they tapped the Trump Tower and leaked info to Hillarys campaign?

Rachel Maddow was flashing a classified doc on air the other night....gloves off....brass knuckles on
Trump's enemies are not as weak as he thinks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 04, 2017, 03:26:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 01:40:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2017, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 01:00:57 PM
Is he trying to distract from the Russia thing maybe??

Be interesting to see how Pres. Obama handles this will he just dismiss it or make a big deal out of it and hold Trump to account??

I think Trump and Bannon have had it with the leaks and are going to go on offense big time......fasten your seatbelts

Getting personal too, calling Obama a "bad (or sick) guy"!

If they were tapped, one would assume the Feds were listening in while looking into the Russia allegations.

Hard to see Obama being dumb enough to engage or get involved in Nixon type shit that was bound to come out.

He prevailed over them during the election and he will prevail over them again


What if they tapped the Trump Tower and leaked info to Hillarys campaign?

Rachel Maddow was flashing a classified doc on air the other night....gloves off....brass knuckles on
Trump's enemies are not as weak as he thinks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 04, 2017, 08:19:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 04, 2017, 12:28:35 PM
6 tweets this morning before 7am about Obama wiretapping his phone.

He's losing it

Typical SOP from the GOP Playbook, throw an accusation out in public to distract.

Similar to:
They are going to take your guns 
They have a war on Christianity
They are having Illegals Voting
They are Socialists/Communists
They are against the Middle Class (while the GOP dismantles Unions)
Etc, Etc, Etc


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 04, 2017, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on March 04, 2017, 08:19:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 04, 2017, 12:28:35 PM
6 tweets this morning before 7am about Obama wiretapping his phone.

He's losing it

Typical SOP from the GOP Playbook, throw an accusation out in public to distract.

Similar to:
They are going to take your guns 
They have a war on Christianity
They are having Illegals Voting
They are Socialists/Communists
They are against the Middle Class (while the GOP dismantles Unions)
Etc, Etc, Etc



ŕ
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on March 04, 2017, 08:19:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 04, 2017, 12:28:35 PM
6 tweets this morning before 7am about Obama wiretapping his phone.

He's losing it

Typical SOP from the GOP Playbook, throw an accusation out in public to distract.

Similar to:
They are going to take your guns 
They have a war on Christianity
They are having Illegals Voting
They are Socialists/Communists
They are against the Middle Class (while the GOP dismantles Unions)
Etc, Etc,

You democrats cheated and lost, you had your hero handed questions before s debate and lost, the country iscsick of your corrupt shit and voted your collective asses out of office.

One is worse than the other.........Just, the people knew it and fucked ye out on your holes! True story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 04, 2017, 09:40:49 PM
You think Trump went on a twitter outrage this morning, wait till he hears about the golf tourny down in Mexico.
A spectator picked up Phil Mickelson's ball and took off.

Trump Twitter: Not only are Mexicans stealing our jobs but stealing our golf balls, SAD!! Build the wall now around the course!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2017, 01:07:37 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 03:26:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 01:40:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2017, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 01:00:57 PM
Is he trying to distract from the Russia thing maybe??

Be interesting to see how Pres. Obama handles this will he just dismiss it or make a big deal out of it and hold Trump to account??

I think Trump and Bannon have had it with the leaks and are going to go on offense big time......fasten your seatbelts

Getting personal too, calling Obama a "bad (or sick) guy"!

If they were tapped, one would assume the Feds were listening in while looking into the Russia allegations.

Hard to see Obama being dumb enough to engage or get involved in Nixon type shit that was bound to come out.

He prevailed over them during the election and he will prevail over them again


What if they tapped the Trump Tower and leaked info to Hillarys campaign?

Rachel Maddow was flashing a classified doc on air the other night....gloves off....brass knuckles on
Trump's enemies are not as weak as he thinks

Even if his tweets are conspiratorial nonsense based on a Breitbart/Mark Levin story?

He is going to have to back these accusations up.

This isn't lying on the campaign trail or about birth cert "hunts" (uncovering unbelievable things in Hawaii!! ;D) or making shit up about the size of his inauguration crowd or electoral college tally.

He is on the record as personally accusing his actual predecessor, not his administration, of a possibly serious crime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 05, 2017, 01:30:22 AM
Interesting read on Trump, his budget, and military power.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/world/americas/donald-trump-us-military.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/world/americas/donald-trump-us-military.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 05, 2017, 10:46:47 AM
"Trump's tweets, however, refer to a "lower court" that failed to approve a request for wiretapping his headquarters, which means that a higher court did. That means that the FBI, after being duly authorized by the Justice Department, succeeded in convincing a special tribunal set up in accordance with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that despite the danger of being accused of improper interference in the political process, there was enough "probable cause" to suspect that Trump and/or his underlings were in contact with a foreign entity or foreign intelligence service (and we all know who that might be). If this is the case, then Trump himself may have offered the noose from which he might ultimately hang, politically speaking.                                                                                                    As soon as Washington recovers from another one of its recurring shocks, there is certain to be a growing demand to expose the material on which the FBI based its surveillance request, if it exists, and what it may have found out, if the wiretapping took place. "

http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.775240
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on March 05, 2017, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on March 04, 2017, 09:40:49 PM
You think Trump went on a twitter outrage this morning, wait till he hears about the golf tourny down in Mexico.
A spectator picked up Phil Mickelson's ball and took off.

Trump Twitter: Not only are Mexicans stealing our jobs but stealing our golf balls, SAD!! Build the wall now around the course!

And Rory McIlroy has hardly been shown on the Tv all day Thursday purely as a result of playing a round of golf with POTUS the previous week. More fake media!! Disgusting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 06, 2017, 01:48:43 PM
Anyone watch the show on Sky Atlantic last night... Trumped? Fly on the wall Doc following Trump before the primaries and during the election, watched first hour before heading to bed, had all the bits we've seen before but the comments from all the pundits and the ones who ran against him for the Republican nomination, Cruz, Bush and co
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 06, 2017, 03:55:11 PM
QuoteFBI

• Director James Comey requested that the Department of Justice publicly rebut the President's claims that Obama ordered any wiretapping. The charge implies the FBI broke the law and Comey was not willing to let that hang over the organization with no evidence. Further, he worries that the opposite inference can also be drawn—that there is evidence in their possession that directly implicates persons in Trump Tower in collusion with Russian agents. The DOJ to this point has remained silent.

There is palpable irony here as "The Comey Letter" about a new line of investigation into Hillary Clinton's e-mails a few weeks before the election was released despite DOJ advice.

POTUS

• Another round of golf. Eight in six weeks. Obama's golfing hobby was a favorite target of his ire over the last eight years.

• Was fur-i-ous – "steaming, raging mad" – all weekend that no one, not even many of his supposed allies, believes him like he believes that Breitbart article that Obama ordered his phones to be tapped. He's also furious that this has destroyed any goodwill from Tuesday's speech and threatens to derail his policy agenda.
Honest to god, people. There's no grand strategy of distraction here. He won wide praise for managing to get through the speech without screwing up, and four days later he figuratively puts a shotgun to his foot and pulls the trigger.

If you possibly can, imagine a worldview where not only do you believe that the President can order wiretaps, but that you so much believe that when you say something, other people should accept it as true, without question. A worldview where you get JUST SO MAD that people push back. His thought process must be a frigid, empty, howling wind that cracks rock. It's fear and insecurity given malevolent form.

• All this comes from a Washington Post article citing 17 top White House officials, members of Congress and friends of the president as sources. Spicey's got a
LOT of phones to get checking.

• Saturday at dinner he was joined by noted racist Attorney General Sessions, chief ethno-nationalist & White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly and junior ethno-nationalist & Senior Policy Advisor to the President Stephen Miller.
"They tried to put Trump in a better mood by going over their implementation plans for the travel ban."

This is depraved.

• On Sunday, the President's good mood over the wiretapping story making newspaper headlines soured as Republican after Republican went on the news shows and essentially said, "We have no goddamned clue what he's on about." Especially Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), whom he had given a ride home to on Air Force One on Friday. That's gotta sting.

Press Secretary

• Spicey tweeted out that the President was concerned about the wiretapping "reports" (Report, Sean, report. There was only one, and that one's sources turn to tissue paper once you start looking) and that Congress should investigate it immediately. Oh, and that "neither the White House nor the President will comment further until such oversight is conducted." Forty minutes later Spicey was commenting on the matter—retweeting former FBI Director Michael Mukasey's remarks on the subject.

As expected, the executive branch had to treat the President's statements as true, rather than admit that he's a senile old man who has trouble with listicles. So it is now Official U.S. Government Policy that the previous administration broke the law. The "no comment" bit is interesting because it's a tacit admission that they're trying to keep the President from saying anything to make matters worse for them.
The Hill

• Lap-dog Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA), chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, announced that the committee will be looking into the wiretapping accusations the President made.

West Wing Leak Wars

• Over a dozen Trump aides, allies, and others close to the White House told Politico that Chief of Staff Reince Priebus is one of the main reasons the administration can not find its footing. For his part, Priebus has complained about the amount of time he needs to spend on damage control because of something or other that the President said.

• Such as spending an hour Friday night, calling reporters off the record, denying that the presidential ass-chewing of the senior staff earlier that night over the AG's recusal had actually happened.

• Other complaints include that he *gasp* runs meetings first thing in the morning with department heads giving 30-second updates on their projects and agendas.

Call me crazy, but that sounds exactly like the thing a Chief of Staff should be doing on a daily basis. Not sure where these whiners worked before this.
Never Ask Me About My Kleptocracy

• Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, White House economic adviser Gary Cohn, Small Business Administration head Linda McMahon are receiving government salaries which they are using to pay for accommodations at the Trump International Hotel, which is managed by a company that the President still owns, enriching him further.

ACA Replacement

• Office of Management and Budget head Mick Mulvaney, not Health & Human Services Secretary Tom Price, has been finalizing the replacement plan.
Foreign Relations

Mark Levin, the man who wrote the Breitbart article the President used as the basis for his wiretapping tweets and who said, days after the election, "There is no systemic racism in America. There is no systemic sexism in America," is reportedly up for the position of ambassador to South Africa.

This has been Day 45 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 06, 2017, 04:07:20 PM
Its ironic that Trump compared Obama to Nixon over the weekend!

Has there ever been another president, apart from Nixon, who appears to be so stuck in his office, mostly alone, muttering about how everyone and everything is out to get him? He's only seven weeks on the job!

One could almost derive some satisfaction from this except the chances are that he is going to drag everything down to his level, like he did with the campaign, and prevail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 06, 2017, 04:53:52 PM
He's a chicken!!

Fired this ridiculous allegation out there for his supporters to jump on and then sent his generals out to the Sunday shows to get eaten alive. I just watched George Stephanopoulos eviscerate Huckabee Sanders there and none of them have any credibility at this stage. We've still to hear anything to back up his nonsense!!

Along with that the Muslim ban is stripped of all the fanfare of last time as reporters aren't even allowed to ask questions from State and Melissa McCarthy is holed up in his office afraid to talk to anyone because reporters will run rings round him as they already have done since Trump took office. . . If it were a TV show you'd think it was sinister and worrying but this is real life!!

Hopefully the ACLU destroy this new EO as well to further ruin Trump's credibility!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2017, 09:43:01 AM
"It's sheer incompetence," said one White House official. "There's a lack of management, and a lack of strategy." http://politi.co/2mxSFv4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2017, 07:16:29 PM
https://thinkprogress.org/6-terrible-ideas-included-in-the-house-gops-health-bill-ce2236cbe191
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 07, 2017, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 06, 2017, 04:53:52 PM
He's a chicken!!

Fired this ridiculous allegation out there for his supporters to jump on and then sent his generals out to the Sunday shows to get eaten alive. I just watched George Stephanopoulos eviscerate Huckabee Sanders there and none of them have any credibility at this stage. We've still to hear anything to back up his nonsense!!

Along with that the Muslim ban is stripped of all the fanfare of last time as reporters aren't even allowed to ask questions from State and Melissa McCarthy is holed up in his office afraid to talk to anyone because reporters will run rings round him as they already have done since Trump took office. . . If it were a TV show you'd think it was sinister and worrying but this is real life!!

Hopefully the ACLU destroy this new EO as well to further ruin Trump's credibility!
i I think what we are going to hear soon is the flynn phonecall to the Russian ambassador was
Made from the trump tower office , the dems with the faux outrage at Russian interference with  the election may come back to bite them on the ass  .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 07, 2017, 10:35:01 PM
I see the President of the working man has just upped medical insurance premiums for the poor and cut them for the rich... oh and if you're old then f**k you!!

Very decent also to give those tax breaks to the poor suffering CEO's . . . #MAGA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2017, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 07, 2017, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 06, 2017, 04:53:52 PM
He's a chicken!!

Fired this ridiculous allegation out there for his supporters to jump on and then sent his generals out to the Sunday shows to get eaten alive. I just watched George Stephanopoulos eviscerate Huckabee Sanders there and none of them have any credibility at this stage. We've still to hear anything to back up his nonsense!!

Along with that the Muslim ban is stripped of all the fanfare of last time as reporters aren't even allowed to ask questions from State and Melissa McCarthy is holed up in his office afraid to talk to anyone because reporters will run rings round him as they already have done since Trump took office. . . If it were a TV show you'd think it was sinister and worrying but this is real life!!

Hopefully the ACLU destroy this new EO as well to further ruin Trump's credibility!
i I think what we are going to hear soon is the flynn phonecall to the Russian ambassador was
Made from the trump tower office , the dems with the faux outrage at Russian interference with  the election may come back to bite them on the ass  .

If there is nothing to see, why all the lying and denials only to be later caught out?

Are you not even slightly curious?

What do you think Trump and the GOP would be saying if the roles were reversed? Would the GOP congress be investigating Hillary? Would Chaffetz and the rest be sitting on their hands like they are with Trump? Did you sleep through the umpteen Benghazi investigations, the birth cert stuff and all the rest?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2017, 10:57:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 07, 2017, 10:35:01 PM
I see the President of the working man has just upped medical insurance premiums for the poor and cut them for the rich... oh and if you're old then f**k you!!

Very decent also to give those tax breaks to the poor suffering CEO's . . . #MAGA

And even that is a bridge too far for the lunatic tea party end of the GOP! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 09, 2017, 11:43:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2017, 10:57:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 07, 2017, 10:35:01 PM
I see the President of the working man has just upped medical insurance premiums for the poor and cut them for the rich... oh and if you're old then f**k you!!

Very decent also to give those tax breaks to the poor suffering CEO's . . . #MAGA

And even that is a bridge too far for the lunatic tea party end of the GOP! ;D

The chaos ensuing from this latest disaster from the Whitehouse and the GOP would be funny were it not so fundamentally important to every Americans lives!!!

A well oiled machine!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 09, 2017, 12:45:44 PM
This thread seems to be dying a bit.

I guess there's not much left to say or debate. Doesn't look like anyone wants to defend what Trump and the GOP are foisting on the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2017, 01:16:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2017, 12:45:44 PM
This thread seems to be dying a bit.

I guess there's not much left to say or debate. Doesn't look like anyone wants to defend what Trump and the GOP are foisting on the country.
There is still lots to rubberneck.
Maybe one of the most amazing things about Trump is that he makes George W Bush and Cheney look like moderates
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 09, 2017, 01:48:34 PM
Was going to put this in Brexit thread but could be here as well
https://twitter.com/flashboy/status/839828925291315200 (https://twitter.com/flashboy/status/839828925291315200)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 09, 2017, 02:16:39 PM
WikiLeaks Has Joined the Trump Administration

The anti-American group has become the preferred intelligence service for a conspiracy-addled White House.
By Max Boot
March 8, 2017

As a presidential candidate, Donald Trump declared, "I love WikiLeaks!" And he had good reason to display affection to this website run by accused rapist Julian Assange. By releasing reams of emails stolen from the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, WikiLeaks helped tilt the 2016 election in Trump's favor.

As president, Trump hasn't come out and said anything laudatory about WikiLeaks following its massive disclosure of CIA secrets on Tuesday — a treasure trove that some experts already believe may be more damaging than Edward Snowden's revelations. But Trump hasn't condemned WikiLeaks. The recent entries on his Twitter feed — a pure reflection of his unbridled id — contain vicious attacks on, among other things, Arnold Schwarzenegger, the New York Times, and Barack Obama but not a word about WikiLeaks. Did the president not notice that the intelligence community he commands has just suffered a devastating breach of security? Or did he simply not feel compelled to comment?
 
Actually there is a third, even more discomfiting, possibility:
Perhaps Trump is staying silent because he stands to benefit from WikiLeaks' latest revelations.

On Saturday, recall, Trump was making wild-eyed accusations that Obama had ordered the U.S. intelligence community to wiretap him. "How low has President Obama gone to tapp (sic) my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!" The White House could not come up with one iota of evidence to support this irresponsible allegation, which was denied by FBI Director James Comey and former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. But Trump would not be dissuaded from pursuing this charge, which serves as a convenient distraction from the far more serious accusations of possible collusion between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin while Russia was interfering with the presidential campaign.

Is it just a coincidence that WikiLeaks dumped a massive database pertaining to CIA hacking and wiretapping just three days after Trump made wiretapping a major political issue? Perhaps so. But there is cause for suspicion.

In the first place, WikiLeaks has often timed its leaks for maximum political impact. It released 20,000 stolen DNC emails just three days before the Democratic National Convention on July 25, 2016. As expected, WikiLeaks generated headlines about DNC staffers disparaging Sen. Bernie Sanders, buttressing a Trump campaign effort to prevent Clinton from consolidating Sanders supporters. DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned as a result, and the Clinton campaign suffered significant public relations damage.

In the second place, WikiLeaks, which has often leaked American but never Russian secrets, has been identified by the U.S. intelligence community as a front for Russian intelligence. In January, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence released a declassified estimate that found "with high confidence that Russian military intelligence ... relayed material to WikiLeaks." This was done with a definite purpose: "Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump's election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him."

Trump has consistently resisted the intelligence agency's conclusions, insisting that some 400-pound couch potato might have committed the hacking before grudgingly accepting the findings but continuing to claim that the Russian hack had no impact on the election. (Given that 70,000 votes in three states were his margin of victory, how does he know what affected the outcome and what didn't? And if WikiLeaks was so inconsequential, why did he tout its revelations in almost every appearance during the last month of the campaign?)

The intelligence community's finding that Putin helped him win the election spurred Trump to pursue a vendetta against it. For example, he accused the spooks — with no support — of being behind BuzzFeed's publication of a damning dossier compiled by a former British intelligence officer claiming that the Kremlin had compiled compromising materials on him. Trump outrageously tweeted: "Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to 'leak' into the public. One last shot at me. Are we living in Nazi Germany?" His animus against the intelligence agencies has continued down to his more recent accusations that they allowed themselves to be used by Obama to wiretap him. The consistent (if hardly believable) storyline from Trump is that he has no connections to Russia, and that he is a victim of the nefarious machinations of the American "deep state."

It is significant, therefore, that one of the major storylines to emerge from the latest WikiLeaks release is that the CIA supposedly has a program to reuse computer codes from foreign hackers, thus disguising CIA fingerprints on a hacking operation. Never mind that there is no evidence that the codes used to break into the DNC were part of this CIA database. Right-wing outlets are nevertheless trumpeting these revelations with headlines such as this one on Breitbart: "WikiLeaks: CIA Uses 'Stolen' Malware to 'Attribute' Cyberattacks to Nations Like Russia." Russian-controlled Internet "bots" are also said to be playing up these claims online.

The implication is clear. Trump was a victim of a "false flag" operation wherein CIA hackers broke into the DNC and blamed the Russians. This may be nutty, but it's eminently believable to an audience conditioned to believe that 9/11 was an inside job and that the Sandy Hook massacre was staged — favorite tropes of the radio talk-show host Alex Jones, whose work Trump has praised. Other WikiLeaks revelations — for instance, that the CIA can use Samsung smart TVs as listening devices — lend further credence to Trump's charge that he was secretly wiretapped.

Quite apart from its specifics, the WikiLeaks release changes the subject after a bad few days for Trump highlighted by Attorney General Jeff Sessions's decision to recuse himself from any Kremlingate probe after he was revealed to have lied under oath when he denied meeting any Russian representatives. Last week it was Trump on the defensive. Now it's his nemeses in the U.S. intelligence community who are answering embarrassing questions about how this leak could have occurred and the contents of the leaked information.

Again, maybe this is entirely coincidental, but WikiLeaks' history of being used by Russian intelligence to support Trump should lead to much greater scrutiny not only of who leaked this information — is there a mole in the CIA? — but why it was released now. Even if there is no active collusion between the White House and the Kremlin, the extent to which their agendas coincide is striking. Both Putin and Trump want to discredit the U.S. intelligence community because they see it as an obstacle to their power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 09, 2017, 02:19:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 07, 2017, 10:35:01 PM
I see the President of the working man has just upped medical insurance premiums for the poor and cut them for the rich... oh and if you're old then f**k you!!

Very decent also to give those tax breaks to the poor suffering CEO's . . . #MAGA

Remind me again what Bill Clinton said about Obamacare

I think it went something along the lines of:

"You have people humping it 60 hours a week, their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.....its  the craziest thing ever".

While I have all the empathy in the world for poor people, I have similar empathy for the aforementioned "humpers". I personally know people whose costs have skyrocketed from $15K per annum to over $30k in just 3 years.  That's a serious nut every month...it's a second mortgage for a lot of people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 09, 2017, 03:00:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2017, 02:19:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 07, 2017, 10:35:01 PM
I see the President of the working man has just upped medical insurance premiums for the poor and cut them for the rich... oh and if you're old then f**k you!!

Very decent also to give those tax breaks to the poor suffering CEO's . . . #MAGA

Remind me again what Bill Clinton said about Obamacare

I think it went something along the lines of:

"You have people humping it 60 hours a week, their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.....its  the craziest thing ever".

While I have all the empathy in the world for poor people, I have similar empathy for the aforementioned "bumpers". I personally know people whose costs have skyrocket from $15K per annum to over $30k in just 3 years.  That's a serious nut every month...it's a second nor gave for a lot of people

Any opinion on Trump/Ryancare?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 09, 2017, 03:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2017, 03:00:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2017, 02:19:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 07, 2017, 10:35:01 PM
I see the President of the working man has just upped medical insurance premiums for the poor and cut them for the rich... oh and if you're old then f**k you!!

Very decent also to give those tax breaks to the poor suffering CEO's . . . #MAGA

Remind me again what Bill Clinton said about Obamacare

I think it went something along the lines of:

"You have people humping it 60 hours a week, their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.....its  the craziest thing ever".

While I have all the empathy in the world for poor people, I have similar empathy for the aforementioned "bumpers". I personally know people whose costs have skyrocket from $15K per annum to over $30k in just 3 years.  That's a serious nut every month...it's a second nor gave for a lot of people

Any opinion on Trump/Ryancare?

Haven't had time to digest it, but if both Democrats and right wing Republicans hate it for opposite reasons, it's probably a good compromise bill
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
Healthcare is a total mess. 18% of GDP increasing at 4% per year , way ahead of GDP. . Poor life expectancy. Most spending goes on the rich. Very USA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 09, 2017, 05:36:57 PM
The GOP/Ryan solution to Obamacare is primarily based on driving down prices by promoting Health Insurance Sales across State lines and it is shows the stunning lack of understanding that they have for the Healthcare system and how it works. Peter Orszag's article explains.

The real problem with out of control costs is the way the providers of healthcare are incentivize. They are paid based on what procedures they perform for you so the more they do the more they get paid. That is the prime driver of escalating healthcare costs. There is no cap on what the healthcare providers can do for you if you or your insurance can afford it and who is the brave person who is going to grasp that nettle. Anyway read on Whitey,  you may have something on which to base your opinion for a change.



Why Allowing Health Insurance Sales Across State Lines Won't Help
By Peter Orszag | March 7, 2017


http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2017/03/07/443794.htm

The effort to replace Obamacare faces increasing challenges, the more it is subjected to the harsh light of scrutiny. A good example is the proposal, apparently central to the Republican replacement plans, to allow people to buy health insurance across state lines.
This idea has been put forward as an elixir to all sorts of health sector problems. In his joint address to Congress, President Donald Trump argued that allowing people to buy health insurance in other states would "create a truly competitive national marketplace that will bring costs way down and provide far better care.

The American Academy of Actuaries is less optimistic: "The ability to lower premiums by allowing cross-state sales of insurance is limited," the organization says, "because a key driver of health insurance premiums is local costs of health care." When the idea was floated last year at an industry conference, the "audience literally laughed," one health care consultant noted.
Why do careful students of health care view cross-state sales of insurance skeptically?
One reason is that it is already allowed –- and yet basically doesn't happen. States possess the authority to sanction sales across their borders, and to define the conditions for such sales. In addition to this generic state authority, Section 1333 of Obamacare authorizes "health care choice compacts" across states. As of last month, five states had passed legislation allowing insurance plans that cross state lines: Rhode Island, Wyoming, Georgia, Kentucky and Maine. Georgia's law has been in effect since 2011, yet no insurer has yet offered an out-of-state policy there — or in any of the other four states. If this is the key to bringing costs down, why doesn't anyone want to do it?
Proponents of cross-state sales argue that the Obamacare provision is too limited, and that other authorities aren't broad enough for the idea to succeed.
As things stand, the federal government does not force state A to allow sales of insurance products from an insurer in state B, even if the consumer protection laws and health insurance regulations in state B are much different. State regulations govern items as varied as the generosity of coverage to appeal processes for denied services. A federal law that forced state A to accept state B's less restrictive regulations could engender a race to the bottom in such standards across states, and also create an adverse selection problem for insurers in state A — which presumably would still have to meet A's regulations, and therefore would attract mainly the less healthy beneficiaries in that state.
If an insurer from state B would instead have to meet state A's regulations, then it's not clear what the federal law would accomplish.
Local Matters
The bigger challenge for this idea, though, is that almost all health care is delivered locally. To succeed, insurance companies need a significant toe-hold with hospitals and other providers in their local market; an out-of-state insurer would lack that and thus struggle in its negotiations to form a delivery network. This is why many new entrants to the health insurance market haven't succeeded.
As the American Academy of Actuaries emphasizes, "For insurers to sell across state lines, they must develop provider networks by establishing reimbursement agreements with hospitals and physicians, or by purchasing access to an existing network. Any cost savings resulting from differences in benefit coverage requirements among states can be small compared to cost savings that can be accomplished through negotiating strong provider contracts."
That view is not limited to actuaries. A scholar at the Institute for Policy Innovation, which is devoted to promoting free markets and limited government, agreed that "it is a big problem": "Just because a good affordable policy is available in another state doesn't mean that I would be able to get the network of physicians and the good prices that are available in that other state."
For similar reasons, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation has argued that "No one should be under the illusion you can dramatically lower the cost of insurance in Los Angeles if you buy an Arkansas policy."
And therein is the core problem for the effort to replace Obamacare. Campaigns succeed by generating easy-to-understand solutions to problems, but there are no easy answers on improving health care quality and reducing its cost.
This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners.
Orszag is a Bloomberg View columnist. He is a vice chairman of investment banking at Lazard. He was President Barack Obama's director of the Office of Management and Budget from 2009 to 2010 and the director of the Congressional Budget Office from 2007 to 2008.

Copyright 2017 Bloomberg.
Interested in Insurance Tech?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 09, 2017, 05:47:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2017, 03:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2017, 03:00:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2017, 02:19:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 07, 2017, 10:35:01 PM
I see the President of the working man has just upped medical insurance premiums for the poor and cut them for the rich... oh and if you're old then f**k you!!

Very decent also to give those tax breaks to the poor suffering CEO's . . . #MAGA

Remind me again what Bill Clinton said about Obamacare

I think it went something along the lines of:

"You have people humping it 60 hours a week, their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.....its  the craziest thing ever".

While I have all the empathy in the world for poor people, I have similar empathy for the aforementioned "bumpers". I personally know people whose costs have skyrocket from $15K per annum to over $30k in just 3 years.  That's a serious nut every month...it's a second nor gave for a lot of people

Any opinion on Trump/Ryancare?

Haven't had time to digest it, but if both Democrats and right wing Republicans hate it for opposite reasons, it's probably a good compromise bill

If only...

What good is a couple of grand tax credit going to do for some schlub earning 30K but needs a 20K policy for his family?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 09, 2017, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
Healthcare is a total mess. 18% of GDP increasing at 4% per year , way ahead of GDP. . Poor life expectancy. Most spending goes on the rich. Very USA.

It's a clusterfvck..... there is the best care in the world if you live in the right part of the country and have the right insurance.  Outside of that it's probably on a par with Ireland
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2017, 07:52:49 PM
QuoteHealth Care

• This morning the American Medical Association, the Association of American Medical Colleges, the Catholic Health Association of the United States, the Children's Hospital Association and AARP came out against the ACA replacement bill.

• AARP estimates premiums for people age 50-64 will go up as much as $8,500 for less coverage under AHCA.

• The President met tonight with leaders of Tea Party groups who had come out strongly against the repeal-and-replace plan introduced yesterday and reportedly told them that if the legislation doesn't get through Congress, he's willing to let the ACA fail and let the Democrats take the fall for it.

• The President is confident the AHCA will pass House but for Senate he plans "football stadium rallies" in red states to prod vulnerable Dems.

• The White House also indicated openness to moving up changing Medicaid to a block grant model and ending the coverage expansion to Jan 1, 2018 instead of 2020 to entice conservatives.

This would break the President's campaign promise to not cut Medicaid.

• Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R-WI) was asked if it matters that 10 million people could lose their health insurance as a result of passing the AHCA. His response: "What matters is we're lowering the costs."

• Office of Budget & Management chief Mick Mulvaney was asked how many fewer people will have health insurance. His response: "Insurance is not really the end goal here"

• When asked how we should colloquially refer to the AHCA, Kellyanne Conway said "I'll call it Trumpcare if you want to, but I didn't hear President Trump say to any of us, 'Hey I want my name on that."

Sure. We've found the first thing in history that Donald J. Trump didn't want to put his name on. Good sign.

Never Ask Me About My Kleptocracy

• Six and a half weeks after the inauguration and the General Services Administration still has yet to rule on whether or not the Trump Organization is violating the terms of the lease on the hotel at the Old Post Office Pavilion. The lease bars any "elected official of the Government of the United States" from deriving "any benefit" from it. Though he has removed himself from management of the company that holds the lease, the President still owns the company. Now it's debatable if it will ever reach a conclusion as Norman Dong, head of public buildings at the GSA, is leaving the agency and his position could well be filled by a political appointee.

Housing & Urban Development

• The White House's draft budget cuts $6 billion/14% from the agency's budget. The plan would squeeze public housing support and end most federally funded community development grants, which provide services such as meal assistance and cleaning up abandoned properties in low-income neighborhoods.

• Repair funds for public housing: −32%

• Community planning and development grants: −$4b/100%

• Grants for local communities to build affordable housing: −100%

• Low-income communities redevelopment investment: −100%

• Section 8 Housing and housing vouchers for homeless veterans: −$300mm

• Housing for the elderly: −$42mm/10%

• Housing for people with disabilities: −$29mm/20%

• Native American housing block grants: −$150mm/20%

"Our neglected inner cities will see a rebirth of hope, safety, and opportunity."

Tweet Beat

• Today was International Women's Day. The President tweeted: "I have tremendous respect for women and the many roles they serve that are vital to the fabric of our society and our economy."

In 1994 the Pussy-Grabber-in-Chief said:

"I think that putting a wife to work is a very dangerous thing. I really think it's a bad idea. I think that was the single greatest cause of what happened to my marriage with Ivana. A softness disappeared. There was a great softness to Ivana, and she still has that softness, but during this period of time she became an executive not a wife."

On second wife Marla Maples' modeling commitments: "I have days where I think it's great. And I have days where, if I come home -- and I don't want to sound too much like a chauvinist -- but when I come home and dinner's not ready, I go through the roof."

POTUS

• Had dinner with Sen. Ted Cruz & his family. During the campaign the President frequently called Cruz a liar, threatened to "spill the beans" on his wife, and asserted that Cruz's father was involved in the assassination of JFK.

• Received 38 more trademarks in China, opening the way to developing a host of branded businesses from hotels and golf clubs to bodyguard and concierge services. Dan Plane, a director at Simone IP Services, a Hong Kong intellectual property consultancy, said, "For all these marks to sail through so quickly and cleanly, with no similar marks, no identical marks, no issues with specifications — boy, it's weird."

Secret Service

• Secret Service director Joseph Clancy departed over the weekend. The Secret Service declined to say who the new acting director is.
EPA

• Administrator Scott Pruitt has drawn heavily on the staff of Sen. James "Snowballs Prove There's No Global Warming" Inhofe (R-OK) to fill positions in the upper ranks of the Environmental Protection Agency.

• The Office of Science and Technology had the word "science" removed from its mission statement today. It described that work as "science-based", meaning that it would make recommendations based on peer-reviewed, solid scientific work. Now it has been replaced by a message saying only that clean water will be recommended where it can conform to "economically and technologically achievable standards".

People Are Going To Die

• Draft budget eliminates the Prevention and Public Health Fund from the budget for the Centers for Disease Control. It comprises 12% of the CDC budget and was created as part of the Affordable Care Act. It was designed to lower health care costs by prevent diseases – avian flu, Zika, yellow fever, MRSA, cancer, hypertension, diabetes and more – before they start.

The Hill

• House Rules Committee Chairman Pete Sessions (R-TX) took exception to Spicey's statement on Wednesday that "every member" of Congress would be able to amend the health care bill "on the floor." Pressed by Democrats on the committee as to whether or not this was true (Sessions said it had not been discussed) and if Spicey was wrong to make that claim, Sessions grew testy: "You know what, I will just point blank say that I would encourage Mr. Spicer if he thinks he's going to start talking about my business to just give me a darn call." This was followed by five full seconds of complete silence.

• Senate Joint Resolution 34 would overturn a Federal Communications Commission rule that requires internet service providers to get customers' permission before they sell sensitive consumer data, such as browsing history. Passage of the resolution by Congress would prevent the FCC from issuing similar rules in the future. The sponsor, Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ), said that the resolution "empowers consumers to make informed choices on if and how their data can be shared," but he did not explain how it will achieve that.

Syria

• The 75th Ranger Regiment is on the ground, holding the city of Manbij, and the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit's howitzers deployed a week ago to establish an artillery base to support the assault on the Daesh "capital" of Raqqa. The forces of the MEU are the first regular U.S. ground troops to enter the conflict.

Foreign Relations

• John Huntsman, 2012 GOP presidential candidate and former ambassador to both China and Singapore, has reportedly been offered and accepted the position of ambassador to Russia.

State Department

• NBC's Andrea Mitchell was forcibly ejected from the room when she attempted to ask Secretary of State Rex Tillerson questions at a photo op with Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin.

This has been Day 48 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2017, 09:54:05 PM
http://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2017/march/trump-clinton-debates-gender-reversal.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2017, 10:09:59 PM
Bannon and the lies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY_Asvpa1-k
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 09, 2017, 10:11:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2017, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
Healthcare is a total mess. 18% of GDP increasing at 4% per year , way ahead of GDP. . Poor life expectancy. Most spending goes on the rich. Very USA.

It's a clusterfvck..... there is the best care in the world if you live in the right part of the country and have the right insurance.  Outside of that it's probably on a par with Ireland

Actually Ireland is better

World Health Organization Ranking; The World's Health Systems
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 09, 2017, 10:37:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 07, 2017, 05:13:42 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on March 07, 2017, 02:53:36 PM
Is there any possibility of the choice being made on a county-by-county basis?  Might have to rule out any enclave-type scenario I presume, but what counties currently would have strong majorities one way or the other?

No.

The Good Friday Agreement says it in black and white. It's all or nothing when it comes to a border poll. No more carving up of little enclaves to appease people who can't accept a democratic result.


With these long-winded daily reports we are now getting the above nugget in the United Ireland thread from Eamon is too good not to share.

How are you doing accepting the democratic result in the US election old pal ?? not so good?? ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 09, 2017, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 09, 2017, 10:11:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2017, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
Healthcare is a total mess. 18% of GDP increasing at 4% per year , way ahead of GDP. . Poor life expectancy. Most spending goes on the rich. Very USA.

It's a clusterfvck..... there is the best care in the world if you live in the right part of the country and have the right insurance.  Outside of that it's probably on a par with Ireland

Actually Ireland is better

World Health Organization Ranking; The World's Health Systems
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland

You obviously didn't read (or understand) my post



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 09, 2017, 11:30:59 PM


I believe I did understand your post.
You stated and I paraphrase... that for rich people who live close to MassGeneral or the MayoClinic and the like, the US has arguably the best healthcare in the world, for the rest it sucks ... on a par with Ireland. In fact when you put the good bit and the bit that sucks together, Ireland is better. My point is that Ireland is not on a par with the US but better.
BTW I agree with you the Healthcare system in the US is a calamity.. we spend almost 2 times what they spend in France and the outcomes are worse than Ireland but the disingenuous ignorant attempts at solutions coming from Ayn Ryan / Trump and company are not going to cure anything except the rich people's aversion to paying taxes.
If you want the Healthcare you believe you deserve you might have to start eating "Freedom Fries".
Do me the courtesy of reading that article I posted earlier. Ryan despite his claims of 20+ years of Healthcare sector experience does not appear to have grasped how the Healthcare market works.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 09, 2017, 11:34:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 09, 2017, 10:37:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 07, 2017, 05:13:42 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on March 07, 2017, 02:53:36 PM
Is there any possibility of the choice being made on a county-by-county basis?  Might have to rule out any enclave-type scenario I presume, but what counties currently would have strong majorities one way or the other?

No.

The Good Friday Agreement says it in black and white. It's all or nothing when it comes to a border poll. No more carving up of little enclaves to appease people who can't accept a democratic result.


With these long-winded daily reports we are now getting the above nugget in the United Ireland thread from Eamon is too good not to share.

How are you doing accepting the democratic result in the US election old pal ?? not so good?? ;)

I think we all have come to except the electoral college vote. It's you who do not appear to have accepted the democratic result ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 09, 2017, 11:36:13 PM
Texted a good friend of mine who is a HUGE Republican

Me....."what is going on with Trump?"

Him....."He is batshit crazy"

Me ......"at least Hillary isn't President, right?"

Him...."That could be debatable in a year"

This guy has voted Republican Ticket for the past 30 years.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2017, 12:24:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 09, 2017, 11:30:59 PM


I believe I did understand your post.
You stated and I paraphrase... that for rich people who live close to MassGeneral or the MayoClinic and the like, the US has arguably the best healthcare in the world, for the rest it sucks ... on a par with Ireland. In fact when you put the good bit and the bit that sucks together, Ireland is better. My point is that Ireland is not on a par with the US but better.
BTW I agree with you the Healthcare system in the US is a calamity.. we spend almost 2 times what they spend in France and the outcomes are worse than Ireland but the disingenuous ignorant attempts at solutions coming from Ayn Ryan / Trump and company are not going to cure anything except the rich people's aversion to paying taxes.
If you want the Healthcare you believe you deserve you might have to start eating "Freedom Fries".
Do me the courtesy of reading that article I posted earlier. Ryan despite his claims of 20+ years of Healthcare sector experience does not appear to have grasped how the Healthcare market works.


I never said "rich people".......  I said people with the right insurance.  Many people will low paying jobs have great insurance.  The first job I had in 1995, I was making $17,500 per year and I had exactly the same health insurance as the CEO who was making $20M per year.

A buddy of mine in the Laborers Union in Chicago did his knee in and was operated on by the same surgeon who does all of the Blackhawks players

Teachers also have pretty good insurance and I definitely wouldn't categorize them as rich
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 10, 2017, 01:39:05 AM
OK sorry rich people and those with the right insurance.  I did say paraphrase....
My point was that Ireland is not on a "par" with the US but gets better outcomes for less. Just pointing out that you were erroneous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2017, 01:44:46 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 10, 2017, 01:39:05 AM
OK sorry rich people and those with the right insurance.  I did say paraphrase....
My point was that Ireland is not on a "par" with the US but gets better outcomes for less. Just pointing out that you were erroneous.

I take it youve never been to Castlebar Hospital then
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 10, 2017, 02:28:31 AM
Never let data get in the way of your gut feeling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2017, 06:43:38 AM
QuoteEthically Challenged

• Ex-National Security Adviser Lt. Gen (Ret.) Michael Flynn filed a Foreign Agents Registration Act disclosure yesterday, retroactively applied to $530,000 worth of lobbying work he did during the U.S. presidential campaign that may have aided the Turkish government.
On the day of the election, Flynn (acting as undisclosed foreign agent of Turkey) wrote an op-ed calling for the extradition of Fethullah Gülen to Turkey. Turkey claims he was behind the failed July coup. The DOJ has rebuffed extradition demands it fears are politically motivated by saying Turkey must substantiate claims per the extradition agreement. Flynn's rationale in the op-ed was explicitly political.

• The Office Government Ethics sent a letter to White House counsel and the House Oversight Committee, taking issue with the White House's decision not to discipline Kellyane Conway over her ethics violation when she plugged Ivanka Trump's merchandise during a TV interview. Failure to discipline her, they argue, will incite further ethics breaches.

It also took exception to the broader assertion by White House that OGE rules did not apply to employees of the Executive Office of the President, calling it "critical to the public's faith in the integrity of government that White House employees be held to the same standard of ethical accountability as other executive branch employees."

Always Have An Exit Strategy

• After digging Kansas into a $1 billion budget hole with his tax cuts, it looks like Governor Sam Brownback will be literally getting the f**k out of Dodge and taking the position of Ambassador To The U.N. Agencies For Food And Agriculture in Rome, Italy.

POTUS

• Was slated to travel to Louisville, KY on Saturday to sell a crowd on TrumpCare. Now Vice-President Pence will be going.
Already lining up scapegoats (Tea Party & Dems), not slapping his name on it, and now ducking out of a sales pitch in a red state he won by 30 points. He knows this is going to fail.

Health Care

• After 18 hours of debate, TrumpCare passed 23 to 16 in the House Ways and Means Committee before dawn on Thursday.

• Dr. Andrey Ostrovsky, the top Medicaid doctor, said today that he can not support TrumpCare because experts, data, and evidence outweigh political messaging.

• Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) said today that TrumpCare will not pass the Senate and the House needs to start over again.

• House majority whip Steve Scalise (R-LA) refused to say today whether or not the bill had enough votes to even make it out of the House.

That Is Actually How This Works. That's Actually How All Of This Works

• With bad PowerPoints and rolled-up sleeves, alleged policy wonk House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) gave his capstone presentation on Why Poor People Should Suffer Why The ACA Should Be Repealed. In the middle of it he said that the reason ACA insurance won't work is because there are healthy people subsidizing the treatments sick people are receiving.

You guys... I'm not entirely sure at this point that Paul Ryan understands what insurance *is*.

Hate Watch

• Another bomb threat & evacuation... this time at Jewish Children's Museum in Brooklyn, NY.

EPA

• Administrator Scott Pruitt went on CNBC this morning and denied that carbon dioxide is "a primary contributor to the global warming that we see." This runs counter to not only the accepted scientific consensus but the position of the very organization he's overseeing.

How'd you like to be the EPA staffer that has to give him his morning briefing tomorrow? "And turning to Page 3 you can see that we...we... You don't really care about any of this, do you?"

State Department

• Secretary Tillerson left for Asia on his first major trip. There's no deputy secretary. There are no undersecretaries. Who's minding the store?

Border Wall

• Asked at an interview with Politico today whether or not Mexico was going to pay for construction of the wall on our southern border, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) was succinct in his reply: "Uh, no."

War on Terror

• A week of U.S. airstrikes in Yemen eclipsed the annual bombing total for any year during Obama's presidency.

Travel Ban

• Hawaii filed suit to block the revised ban, arguing it will disrupt families, harm its Muslim population, tourism and foreign students.

• Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, & Oregon will be joining the lawsuit.

• The Attorney General of Washington State will ask U.S. District Judge James Robart to extend the current temporary restraining order on the first travel ban to cover the new one.

This has been Day 49 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 10, 2017, 09:58:36 AM
The idiocracy gets around to the EPA, as expected. (http://www.thejournal.ie/epa-scott-pruitt-carbon-3279954-Mar2017/?utm_source=shortlink)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 10:05:09 AM
Quote from: Hardy on March 10, 2017, 09:58:36 AM
The idiocracy gets around to the EPA, as expected. (http://www.thejournal.ie/epa-scott-pruitt-carbon-3279954-Mar2017/?utm_source=shortlink)
It reminds me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAFSrKqIKdc

Scrooge was funny in the 60s because rich people had been neutralised economically after WW2 . The problem now is that the US needs urgent solutions to the systemic problems that plague it. Trump is a piss take
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2017, 10:44:48 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 10, 2017, 02:28:31 AM
Never let data get in the way of your gut feeling.

I can't remember the technical term, but when dealing with statistics sample sizes need to be somewhat similar in order for comparisons to be meaningful......4M versus 300M???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2017, 11:28:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2017, 10:44:48 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 10, 2017, 02:28:31 AM
Never let data get in the way of your gut feeling.

I can't remember the technical term, but when dealing with statistics sample sizes need to be somewhat similar in order for comparisons to be meaningful......4M versus 300M???

I doubt that 4+ million people could ever be considered an inadequate or too asymmetric a sample size. You're not talking comparing 5 people with 5000. Random bias is not going to be an issue when you're in the millions. And it also depends on what statistics and methods you're using. In some methods, lopsided samples can cause the result to lean too heavily on the larger one, but that's why software allows you to randomly pull a certain number of cases from the hat to make your sample. I'm sure the statisticians who generate these figures are well aware of these issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2017, 12:53:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2017, 11:28:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2017, 10:44:48 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 10, 2017, 02:28:31 AM
Never let data get in the way of your gut feeling.

I can't remember the technical term, but when dealing with statistics sample sizes need to be somewhat similar in order for comparisons to be meaningful......4M versus 300M???

I doubt that 4+ million people could ever be considered an inadequate or too asymmetric a sample size. You're not talking comparing 5 people with 5000. Random bias is not going to be an issue when you're in the millions. And it also depends on what statistics and methods you're using. In some methods, lopsided samples can cause the result to lean too heavily on the larger one, but that's why software allows you to randomly pull a certain number of cases from the hat to make your sample. I'm sure the statisticians who generate these figures are well aware of these issues.


https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/whom-are-they-kiddingHi

Who rankings are subjective and not solely statistically based
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 01:01:26 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/10/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-lies-democracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2017, 01:54:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2017, 12:53:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2017, 11:28:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2017, 10:44:48 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 10, 2017, 02:28:31 AM
Never let data get in the way of your gut feeling.

I can't remember the technical term, but when dealing with statistics sample sizes need to be somewhat similar in order for comparisons to be meaningful......4M versus 300M???

I doubt that 4+ million people could ever be considered an inadequate or too asymmetric a sample size. You're not talking comparing 5 people with 5000. Random bias is not going to be an issue when you're in the millions. And it also depends on what statistics and methods you're using. In some methods, lopsided samples can cause the result to lean too heavily on the larger one, but that's why software allows you to randomly pull a certain number of cases from the hat to make your sample. I'm sure the statisticians who generate these figures are well aware of these issues.


https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/whom-are-they-kiddingHi

Who rankings are subjective and not solely statistically based

Perhaps, but that is a different argument.

Will take a look at that later - I'm assuming Cato want no government involvement in ANYTHING to do with healthcare?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 10, 2017, 01:59:13 PM
It's a pity Trump doesn't recognise the employment and wage figures otherwise he could paint them as a massive win for his first few months of Presidency, even though the figures are clearly an Obama legacy . . .

I wonder what he will do?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2017, 02:03:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2017, 01:54:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2017, 12:53:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2017, 11:28:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2017, 10:44:48 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 10, 2017, 02:28:31 AM
Never let data get in the way of your gut feeling.

I can't remember the technical term, but when dealing with statistics sample sizes need to be somewhat similar in order for comparisons to be meaningful......4M versus 300M???

I doubt that 4+ million people could ever be considered an inadequate or too asymmetric a sample size. You're not talking comparing 5 people with 5000. Random bias is not going to be an issue when you're in the millions. And it also depends on what statistics and methods you're using. In some methods, lopsided samples can cause the result to lean too heavily on the larger one, but that's why software allows you to randomly pull a certain number of cases from the hat to make your sample. I'm sure the statisticians who generate these figures are well aware of these issues.


https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/whom-are-they-kiddingHi

Who rankings are subjective and not solely statistically based

Perhaps, but that is a different argument.

Will take a look at that later - I'm assuming Cato want no government involvement in ANYTHING to do with healthcare?

If you think somewhere like Morocco, Greece, Chile or Columbia has better healthcare than the US then knock yourself out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 02:45:04 PM
Whitey, Cuba is far poorer than the US and has better health outcomes. It is not a plutocracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2017, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2017, 02:03:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2017, 01:54:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2017, 12:53:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2017, 11:28:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2017, 10:44:48 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 10, 2017, 02:28:31 AM
Never let data get in the way of your gut feeling.

I can't remember the technical term, but when dealing with statistics sample sizes need to be somewhat similar in order for comparisons to be meaningful......4M versus 300M???

I doubt that 4+ million people could ever be considered an inadequate or too asymmetric a sample size. You're not talking comparing 5 people with 5000. Random bias is not going to be an issue when you're in the millions. And it also depends on what statistics and methods you're using. In some methods, lopsided samples can cause the result to lean too heavily on the larger one, but that's why software allows you to randomly pull a certain number of cases from the hat to make your sample. I'm sure the statisticians who generate these figures are well aware of these issues.


https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/whom-are-they-kiddingHi

Who rankings are subjective and not solely statistically based

Perhaps, but that is a different argument.

Will take a look at that later - I'm assuming Cato want no government involvement in ANYTHING to do with healthcare?

If you think somewhere like Morocco, Greece, Chile or Columbia has better healthcare than the US then knock yourself out

I don't know if they do.

You seem sure that they don't.

Why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2017, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 10, 2017, 01:59:13 PM
It's a pity Trump doesn't recognise the employment and wage figures otherwise he could paint them as a massive win for his first few months of Presidency, even though the figures are clearly an Obama legacy . . .

I wonder what he will do?!
if the employment numbers were down 300k what would u be saying ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2017, 03:40:45 PM
http://www.yalemedlaw.com/methodology-of-who-healthcare-rankings/

WHO rankings are nonsense. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 10, 2017, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2017, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 10, 2017, 01:59:13 PM
It's a pity Trump doesn't recognise the employment and wage figures otherwise he could paint them as a massive win for his first few months of Presidency, even though the figures are clearly an Obama legacy . . .

I wonder what he will do?!
if the employment numbers were down 300k what would u be saying ?

What I say isn't really important I'm not the President!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2017, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2017, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 10, 2017, 01:59:13 PM
It's a pity Trump doesn't recognise the employment and wage figures otherwise he could paint them as a massive win for his first few months of Presidency, even though the figures are clearly an Obama legacy . . .

I wonder what he will do?!
if the employment numbers were down 300k what would u be saying ?

Is his point not that Trump and many other Republicans have been calling the jobs numbers bullshit for years? Including saying that the Dept. of Labor was making them up?

Now that the Obama trend is continuing under Trump, suddenly Spicer and the rest are lauding the decent figures coming out of the "deep state".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 10:17:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2017, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2017, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 10, 2017, 01:59:13 PM
It's a pity Trump doesn't recognise the employment and wage figures otherwise he could paint them as a massive win for his first few months of Presidency, even though the figures are clearly an Obama legacy . . .

I wonder what he will do?!
if the employment numbers were down 300k what would u be saying ?

Is his point not that Trump and many other Republicans have been calling the jobs numbers bullshit for years? Including saying that the Dept. of Labor was making them up?

Now that the Obama trend is continuing under Trump, suddenly Spicer and the rest are lauding the decent figures coming out of the "deep state".
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/840277753777680384
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2017, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 10:17:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2017, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2017, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 10, 2017, 01:59:13 PM
It's a pity Trump doesn't recognise the employment and wage figures otherwise he could paint them as a massive win for his first few months of Presidency, even though the figures are clearly an Obama legacy . . .

I wonder what he will do?!
if the employment numbers were down 300k what would u be saying ?

Is his point not that Trump and many other Republicans have been calling the jobs numbers bullshit for years? Including saying that the Dept. of Labor was making them up?

Now that the Obama trend is continuing under Trump, suddenly Spicer and the rest are lauding the decent figures coming out of the "deep state".
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/840277753777680384


"President Trump on the job report, per Sean Spicer: "They may have been phony in the past, but it's very real now.""

*headdesk*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 14, 2017, 05:22:06 AM
GOP and Conservative Supporters, do you agree with this?

Seems like Big Government taking over sponsored by the GOP.

And before the "Fake News" spigot turns on, I watched this on FOX News.


Bill would let employers penalize workers who say no to genetic testing:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-genetic-testing-20170313-story.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 14, 2017, 10:57:35 AM
So is it time to throw away our microwave ovens, given Kelly Anne's concerns that they could be used for spying and snooping?

Is there any depth of idiocy and bullshit to which these morons will NOT descend? Are they deliberately testing to see how dumb their supporters are?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2017, 12:06:55 PM
Lots of poorer GOP voters like the idea of Government supported health insurance....

https://twitter.com/reihan/status/841455872119361538/photo/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on March 15, 2017, 02:50:59 PM
Trump's cronies selling thinly-veiled  protection from his Twitter rath. This is the business model of a mob racket.


Want to Keep the President at Bay? Two Consultants Have an Inside Track

By ELIZABETH WILLIAMSON MARCH 13, 2017

For a fee, Corey Lewandowski, President Trump's pugilistic former campaign manager, and Barry Bennett, a former Trump senior adviser, will protect you from "tweet risk" — what happens to the stock price and reputation of your company when the president tells his 26 million Twitter followers that you're killing factory jobs or refusing to sell Ivanka Trump handbags.

"If he's gonna come after you, there's nothing we can do to stop it," Mr. Bennett said of Avenue Strategies, the firm he and Mr. Lewandowski opened in offices overlooking Mr. Trump's White House bedroom window. "But if you want to figure out how to win in this environment, we can help you.

"We're your sherpa through turbulent times."

Mr. Trump has promised "to grow the economy 4 percent per year and create at least 25 million new jobs through massive tax reduction and simplification, in combination with trade reform, regulatory relief and lifting the restrictions on American energy."

So far, the administration "hasn't done much beyond "a few executive orders," Mr. Bennett says. So he and Mr. Lewandowski are pressing American companies to "call Jared Kushner and tell him you're gonna build a new factory," or invite Mr. Trump to "fly somewhere, cut a ribbon, and high-five 200 employees."
Continue reading the main story 

That "drives optimism, and it drives his power," Mr. Bennett said last week over breakfast at the Hay-Adams Hotel, where he is most mornings, pitching his new business. "There are few things a president can do to build power faster than to lead a great economic comeback."

Or to give voters the impression that he is leading such a comeback.

Avenue Strategies opened on Dec. 21, the day after Kellyanne Conway, Mr. Trump's senior counselor, said, "Draining the swamp is not just about lobbying and politicians. It's also about consultants." Since then, Trump-related advisers, lawyers, or former campaign hands have opened or joined a host of lobbying and consulting businesses.

The two men say they're not swamp creatures, because they are not just helping their clients; they are helping Mr. Trump. The firm even operates a fledgling super PAC to help Mr. Trump win re-election. Fired from the campaign and denied a plum job in the administration, Mr. Lewandowski still reveres Mr. Trump and glides past his rival Reince Priebus, the White House chief of staff, to visit Mr. Trump in the Oval Office. Mr. Lewandowski, who declined to be interviewed, has called any suggestion that he's cashing in "absolutely disgusting."

Mr. Bennett says the two men advised Lockheed Martin, not a current client, on how to recover from a "horrible" meeting with Mr. Trump after he tweeted, "Based on the tremendous cost and cost overruns of the Lockheed Martin F-35, I have asked Boeing to price-out a comparable F-18 Super Hornet!" Mr. Bennett said Marillyn Hewson, Lockheed's chief executive, led a "boring" presentation about stuff like "procurement reform," for a president who asked why the United States can't lease fighter planes. Mr. Trump wanted a win, and the advisers told Lockheed how to give him one.

Two weeks later, Mr. Trump was on TV saying, "I was able to get $600 million approximately off those planes." In fact, the savings were years in the making and had nothing to do with Mr. Trump, but Lockheed didn't point that out.

Mr. Trump has taken credit for jobs announcements by ExxonMobil, Ford, General Motors, Fiat Chrysler, Walmart, Sprint, Intel, SoftBank and Alibaba. All of these were in the works before Mr. Trump won the presidency, and many may never come to pass. Yet the companies involved play along, rather than risk his wrath. It's like paying a squeegee-wielding panhandler not to touch your car.

The Avenue Strategies partners met two decades ago in Ohio: Mr. Lewandowski worked for Representative Bob Ney, and Mr. Bennett for Representative Frank Cremeans. (Mr. Ney was jailed in 2007 on federal corruption charges for his role in the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal.) Avenue Strategies' clients often insist on nondisclosure agreements, but Mr. Bennett says most are "Fortune 100 companies." Two that he can name are both from Ohio: Scott's Miracle Gro and Community Choice Financial, a payday lender. Their firm is also finalizing a deal to represent the governor of debt-plagued Puerto Rico in talks with its Wall Street creditors.

They don't have any major foreign clients yet, but Mr. Bennett wishes they were advising Mexico. He said they'd tell President Enrique Peña Nieto to "make it look like they're paying for the wall," or risk Mr. Trump "poaching every factory across the border with an American name on it."

Mr. Bennett complains that businesses always want a meeting with the president, to talk about taxes or regulations, the real ingredients to job creation, even though Mr. Trump doesn't know or care about such minutiae.

If all a company wants is to keep Mr. Trump off their backs, Mr. Bennett said they should hire American workers, not "play public relations tricks."

To the president, though, there appears to be little difference.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2017, 05:35:35 PM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trumptanic-approaches-repeal-iceberg-everything-is-fine
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2017, 07:38:56 PM
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52486

CBO and JCT estimate that enacting the American Health Care Act would reduce federal deficits by $337 billion over the coming decade and increase the number of people who are uninsured by 24 million in 2026 relative to current law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 16, 2017, 10:26:18 AM
Poor Donald can't get his racist Executive Orders to stick at all!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 16, 2017, 03:53:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2017, 10:26:18 AM
Poor Donald can't get his racist Executive Orders to stick at all!

What racist executive orders would they be???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 16, 2017, 04:31:24 PM
Quote from: stew on March 16, 2017, 03:53:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2017, 10:26:18 AM
Poor Donald can't get his racist Executive Orders to stick at all!

What racist executive orders would they be???

Oh my apologies I was referring to his ban of "certain countries" entering the US!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2017, 05:35:01 PM
Quote from: stew on March 16, 2017, 03:53:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2017, 10:26:18 AM
Poor Donald can't get his racist Executive Orders to stick at all!

What racist executive orders would they be???

Guess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 16, 2017, 05:57:32 PM
A bad day keeps continuing for Don - first the travel ban being blocked, then having to meet Enda Kenny - now this

(http://i.imgur.com/XBt6P0fl.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2017, 06:38:21 PM
QuoteWiretaps

• House Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) told reporters on Capitol Hill that "I don't think there was an actual tap of Trump Tower... We don't have any evidence that took place," and that the President, if taken literally, is simply "wrong."

• F.B.I. director James Comey will testify Monday at the committee's first public hearing on its Russian interference investigation, where he will also be grilled about whether or not the President was being surveilled.

• Senate Judiciary Chair Chuck Grassley (R-IA) & Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) threatened to block the deputy attorney general nominee until they get an answer from the F.B.I. about whether or not there was a wiretap.

• The President broke the "neither the White House nor the President will comment further" declaration on Fox tonight, saying "some very interesting items" would be revealed in the next two weeks and "Let's see whether or not I proved it." He also tried to follow Spicey's spin by saying that since "wiretap" was in quotes he didn't literally mean "wiretap" but surveillance in general — even though he only used quotes on two of the four tweets and he specifically wrote about tapping phones.

• In one of the more head-spinning displays of inconsistency and dissonance, the President said that he first heard about the wiretapping from a Jan. 20 New York Times article that "used that exact term," but he then went on to levy his usual insults against them, calling them "failing" and "dishonest media."
Cabinet

• The Senate confirmed Dan Coats as Director of National Intelligence 85-12.

The Fed

• Raised interest rates by a quarter-point in response to what it sees as a strengthened U.S. economy. The decision is meant to head off the prospect of rising inflation, which erodes savings and could destabilize the economy. It also means our payments on mortgages, credit cards, and other loans will increase. Higher rates also tend to slow economic growth and cut exports (due to a stronger dollar). Increasing both are priorities for the administration. The Fed expects two more rate bumps this year.

POTUS

• Held a rally in Nashville, TN today. Asked how long he was going to keep this up, he said, "We're going to do these rallies every two weeks."

Maybe they can just pipe an applause track into the White House hallways? It'll be a cheaper ego boost than this.

• He railed against the Ninth Circuit Court

• Said he would rather be cutting taxes now but has to do health care first.

I thought "Obamacare repeal" was always on his Day 1 agenda.

• Took a shot at Hillary and then walked around the dais soaking in the cheers & "Lock her up!" chants like a wrestler mugging to the audience.

• In an interview with Fox host Tucker Carlson, incorrectly claimed that assimilation of Muslims in the U.S. has "been a very hard process. It's been very very difficult."

• When asked by Carlson what evidence he's amassed regarding wiretapping the President could only cite media reports.

Press Secretary

• Spicey called it "despicable" and "offensive" to ask if the President — who has a history of leaking news about himself — leaked news (the 2005 tax forms) about himself.

Draining the Swamp

• Goldman Sachs managing director James Donovan will be nominated to serve as deputy treasury secretary. This would be the fifth Goldman veteran to take a senior role in the administration.

Health Care

• Current Senate vote estimate: 38-62 against.

• Rep. Dave Brat (R-VA) says he'll vote against the bill in a Budget Committee vote tomorrow. Three more votes on the committee and it won't make it to the House floor.

• A Fox News poll shows only 34% support among voters for TrumpCare.

• Last week Speaker of the House Paul Ryan was saying that "this is the bill." They rammed it through Ways & Means with no amendments before the CBO score came out. Now faced with GOP opposition from both sides, Ryan says they will "incorporate feedback to improve this bill, to refine this bill."

• The "Phase Three" bills in the GOP's health care plan, including one that would allow insurers to sell across state lines, will start arriving next week according to House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy. These will not be able to be passed under the budgetary reconciliation process and so will need 8 Senate Democrats to reach 60 votes.

• Health & Human Services Secretary Tom Price participated in a CNN town hall tonight on TrumpCare and demonstrated that he does not know what is in the bill. When asked by Dana Bash why they were repealing the prohibition on insurance providers writing off executive salaries greater than $500,000, Price stammered, claimed that it wasn't in the bill, then tried to recover and talk about how it was un-American to tax *people* making the same amount different rates, which is not what that provision did at all.

• Secretary Price, a physician, also believes that states should be able to determine if immunizations are required.

• Over 12 million people signed up for ACA plans this year. This fell short of the projected 13.8 million, but historically there has been an end-of-window surge every year and this January the new President ordered all promotion of signups and the impending deadline to cease, which undoubtedly hurt the number of participants.

Travel Ban

• Judge Derrick K. Watson of United States District Court in Honolulu issued a nationwide temporary restraining order against the revised travel ban. In part of his eviscerating ruling he writes, "The Government appropriately cautions that, in determining purpose, courts should not look into the "veiled psyche" and "secret motives" of government decisionmakers and may not undertake a "judicial psychoanalysis of a drafter's heart of hearts." ... The Government need not fear. The remarkable facts at issue here require no such impermissible inquiry. For instance, there is nothing "veiled" about this press release: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.""

• The President went full-authoritarian at his Nashville rally in reaction, saying "This ruling makes us look weak," and "people are suggesting breaking up the 9th circuit."

He called Travel Ban 2.0 "a watered down version of the 1st one" and indicated he wanted to return to that. Which 2.0 rescinded. And had lost five different court cases. He's... not a smart man.

• Five judges of the 9th Circuit supported the travel ban in a filing, writing that the panel's decision to block it "stands contrary to well-established separation-of-powers principles," and that "whatever we, as individuals, may feel about the President or the Executive Order, the President's decision was well within the powers of the presidency."

Foreign Relations

• Jason Greenblatt, the former Trump Organization chief legal officer, is now point man on peace in the West Bank. He reports not to the State Department, but to the president's son-in-law and senior advisor, Jared Kushner. When Trump named him his top Israeli affairs adviser during a meeting with Orthodox Jewish reporters in 2016, it took Greenblatt by surprise: "I knew that he was relying on me for certain aspects of Israel, but I didn't know I was his top adviser."

He has no diplomatic experience but his main sources of information are daily email alerts, American Israel Public Affairs Committee materials and a weekly Jewish radio program. "There's just a tremendous amount of literature out there, emails and all that, so I read all of those as often as I can."

The Hill

• After Rand Paul (R-KY) objected to John McCain's (R-AZ) motion advancing Montenegro's push for NATO membership in the face of a Russian-backed coup and walked out of the Senate chambers, McCain said, "the Senator from Kentucky is working for Vladimir Putin." No one made a move to Rule 19 him like when Dr. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) tried to read Coretta Scott King's letter on Jeff Sessions' racism into the record.

This has been Day 55 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 06:46:34 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2017, 06:38:21 PM
QuoteWiretaps

• House Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) told reporters on Capitol Hill that "I don't think there was an actual tap of Trump Tower... We don't have any evidence that took place," and that the President, if taken literally, is simply "wrong."

• F.B.I. director James Comey will testify Monday at the committee's first public hearing on its Russian interference investigation, where he will also be grilled about whether or not the President was being surveilled.

• Senate Judiciary Chair Chuck Grassley (R-IA) & Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) threatened to block the deputy attorney general nominee until they get an answer from the F.B.I. about whether or not there was a wiretap.

• The President broke the "neither the White House nor the President will comment further" declaration on Fox tonight, saying "some very interesting items" would be revealed in the next two weeks and "Let's see whether or not I proved it." He also tried to follow Spicey's spin by saying that since "wiretap" was in quotes he didn't literally mean "wiretap" but surveillance in general — even though he only used quotes on two of the four tweets and he specifically wrote about tapping phones.

• In one of the more head-spinning displays of inconsistency and dissonance, the President said that he first heard about the wiretapping from a Jan. 20 New York Times article that "used that exact term," but he then went on to levy his usual insults against them, calling them "failing" and "dishonest media."
Cabinet

• The Senate confirmed Dan Coats as Director of National Intelligence 85-12.

The Fed

• Raised interest rates by a quarter-point in response to what it sees as a strengthened U.S. economy. The decision is meant to head off the prospect of rising inflation, which erodes savings and could destabilize the economy. It also means our payments on mortgages, credit cards, and other loans will increase. Higher rates also tend to slow economic growth and cut exports (due to a stronger dollar). Increasing both are priorities for the administration. The Fed expects two more rate bumps this year.

POTUS

• Held a rally in Nashville, TN today. Asked how long he was going to keep this up, he said, "We're going to do these rallies every two weeks."

Maybe they can just pipe an applause track into the White House hallways? It'll be a cheaper ego boost than this.

• He railed against the Ninth Circuit Court

• Said he would rather be cutting taxes now but has to do health care first.

I thought "Obamacare repeal" was always on his Day 1 agenda.

• Took a shot at Hillary and then walked around the dais soaking in the cheers & "Lock her up!" chants like a wrestler mugging to the audience.

• In an interview with Fox host Tucker Carlson, incorrectly claimed that assimilation of Muslims in the U.S. has "been a very hard process. It's been very very difficult."

• When asked by Carlson what evidence he's amassed regarding wiretapping the President could only cite media reports.

Press Secretary

• Spicey called it "despicable" and "offensive" to ask if the President — who has a history of leaking news about himself — leaked news (the 2005 tax forms) about himself.

Draining the Swamp

• Goldman Sachs managing director James Donovan will be nominated to serve as deputy treasury secretary. This would be the fifth Goldman veteran to take a senior role in the administration.

Health Care

• Current Senate vote estimate: 38-62 against.

• Rep. Dave Brat (R-VA) says he'll vote against the bill in a Budget Committee vote tomorrow. Three more votes on the committee and it won't make it to the House floor.

• A Fox News poll shows only 34% support among voters for TrumpCare.

• Last week Speaker of the House Paul Ryan was saying that "this is the bill." They rammed it through Ways & Means with no amendments before the CBO score came out. Now faced with GOP opposition from both sides, Ryan says they will "incorporate feedback to improve this bill, to refine this bill."

• The "Phase Three" bills in the GOP's health care plan, including one that would allow insurers to sell across state lines, will start arriving next week according to House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy. These will not be able to be passed under the budgetary reconciliation process and so will need 8 Senate Democrats to reach 60 votes.

• Health & Human Services Secretary Tom Price participated in a CNN town hall tonight on TrumpCare and demonstrated that he does not know what is in the bill. When asked by Dana Bash why they were repealing the prohibition on insurance providers writing off executive salaries greater than $500,000, Price stammered, claimed that it wasn't in the bill, then tried to recover and talk about how it was un-American to tax *people* making the same amount different rates, which is not what that provision did at all.

• Secretary Price, a physician, also believes that states should be able to determine if immunizations are required.

• Over 12 million people signed up for ACA plans this year. This fell short of the projected 13.8 million, but historically there has been an end-of-window surge every year and this January the new President ordered all promotion of signups and the impending deadline to cease, which undoubtedly hurt the number of participants.

Travel Ban

• Judge Derrick K. Watson of United States District Court in Honolulu issued a nationwide temporary restraining order against the revised travel ban. In part of his eviscerating ruling he writes, "The Government appropriately cautions that, in determining purpose, courts should not look into the "veiled psyche" and "secret motives" of government decisionmakers and may not undertake a "judicial psychoanalysis of a drafter's heart of hearts." ... The Government need not fear. The remarkable facts at issue here require no such impermissible inquiry. For instance, there is nothing "veiled" about this press release: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.""

• The President went full-authoritarian at his Nashville rally in reaction, saying "This ruling makes us look weak," and "people are suggesting breaking up the 9th circuit."

He called Travel Ban 2.0 "a watered down version of the 1st one" and indicated he wanted to return to that. Which 2.0 rescinded. And had lost five different court cases. He's... not a smart man.

• Five judges of the 9th Circuit supported the travel ban in a filing, writing that the panel's decision to block it "stands contrary to well-established separation-of-powers principles," and that "whatever we, as individuals, may feel about the President or the Executive Order, the President's decision was well within the powers of the presidency."

Foreign Relations

• Jason Greenblatt, the former Trump Organization chief legal officer, is now point man on peace in the West Bank. He reports not to the State Department, but to the president's son-in-law and senior advisor, Jared Kushner. When Trump named him his top Israeli affairs adviser during a meeting with Orthodox Jewish reporters in 2016, it took Greenblatt by surprise: "I knew that he was relying on me for certain aspects of Israel, but I didn't know I was his top adviser."

He has no diplomatic experience but his main sources of information are daily email alerts, American Israel Public Affairs Committee materials and a weekly Jewish radio program. "There's just a tremendous amount of literature out there, emails and all that, so I read all of those as often as I can."

The Hill

• After Rand Paul (R-KY) objected to John McCain's (R-AZ) motion advancing Montenegro's push for NATO membership in the face of a Russian-backed coup and walked out of the Senate chambers, McCain said, "the Senator from Kentucky is working for Vladimir Putin." No one made a move to Rule 19 him like when Dr. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) tried to read Coretta Scott King's letter on Jeff Sessions' racism into the record.

This has been Day 55 in Trumpistan. Good night!

Yawn. Stop boring us.
Hillary lost - get over it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I don't know whether to put this in the What the f**k thread or here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-new-friend-a-great-guy-president-trump-full-of-praise-for-taoiseach-as-he-confirms-he-will-visit-ireland-35537632.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2017, 06:54:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 06:46:34 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2017, 06:38:21 PM
QuoteWiretaps

• House Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) told reporters on Capitol Hill that "I don't think there was an actual tap of Trump Tower... We don't have any evidence that took place," and that the President, if taken literally, is simply "wrong."

• F.B.I. director James Comey will testify Monday at the committee's first public hearing on its Russian interference investigation, where he will also be grilled about whether or not the President was being surveilled.

• Senate Judiciary Chair Chuck Grassley (R-IA) & Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) threatened to block the deputy attorney general nominee until they get an answer from the F.B.I. about whether or not there was a wiretap.

• The President broke the "neither the White House nor the President will comment further" declaration on Fox tonight, saying "some very interesting items" would be revealed in the next two weeks and "Let's see whether or not I proved it." He also tried to follow Spicey's spin by saying that since "wiretap" was in quotes he didn't literally mean "wiretap" but surveillance in general — even though he only used quotes on two of the four tweets and he specifically wrote about tapping phones.

• In one of the more head-spinning displays of inconsistency and dissonance, the President said that he first heard about the wiretapping from a Jan. 20 New York Times article that "used that exact term," but he then went on to levy his usual insults against them, calling them "failing" and "dishonest media."
Cabinet

• The Senate confirmed Dan Coats as Director of National Intelligence 85-12.

The Fed

• Raised interest rates by a quarter-point in response to what it sees as a strengthened U.S. economy. The decision is meant to head off the prospect of rising inflation, which erodes savings and could destabilize the economy. It also means our payments on mortgages, credit cards, and other loans will increase. Higher rates also tend to slow economic growth and cut exports (due to a stronger dollar). Increasing both are priorities for the administration. The Fed expects two more rate bumps this year.

POTUS

• Held a rally in Nashville, TN today. Asked how long he was going to keep this up, he said, "We're going to do these rallies every two weeks."

Maybe they can just pipe an applause track into the White House hallways? It'll be a cheaper ego boost than this.

• He railed against the Ninth Circuit Court

• Said he would rather be cutting taxes now but has to do health care first.

I thought "Obamacare repeal" was always on his Day 1 agenda.

• Took a shot at Hillary and then walked around the dais soaking in the cheers & "Lock her up!" chants like a wrestler mugging to the audience.

• In an interview with Fox host Tucker Carlson, incorrectly claimed that assimilation of Muslims in the U.S. has "been a very hard process. It's been very very difficult."

• When asked by Carlson what evidence he's amassed regarding wiretapping the President could only cite media reports.

Press Secretary

• Spicey called it "despicable" and "offensive" to ask if the President — who has a history of leaking news about himself — leaked news (the 2005 tax forms) about himself.

Draining the Swamp

• Goldman Sachs managing director James Donovan will be nominated to serve as deputy treasury secretary. This would be the fifth Goldman veteran to take a senior role in the administration.

Health Care

• Current Senate vote estimate: 38-62 against.

• Rep. Dave Brat (R-VA) says he'll vote against the bill in a Budget Committee vote tomorrow. Three more votes on the committee and it won't make it to the House floor.

• A Fox News poll shows only 34% support among voters for TrumpCare.

• Last week Speaker of the House Paul Ryan was saying that "this is the bill." They rammed it through Ways & Means with no amendments before the CBO score came out. Now faced with GOP opposition from both sides, Ryan says they will "incorporate feedback to improve this bill, to refine this bill."

• The "Phase Three" bills in the GOP's health care plan, including one that would allow insurers to sell across state lines, will start arriving next week according to House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy. These will not be able to be passed under the budgetary reconciliation process and so will need 8 Senate Democrats to reach 60 votes.

• Health & Human Services Secretary Tom Price participated in a CNN town hall tonight on TrumpCare and demonstrated that he does not know what is in the bill. When asked by Dana Bash why they were repealing the prohibition on insurance providers writing off executive salaries greater than $500,000, Price stammered, claimed that it wasn't in the bill, then tried to recover and talk about how it was un-American to tax *people* making the same amount different rates, which is not what that provision did at all.

• Secretary Price, a physician, also believes that states should be able to determine if immunizations are required.

• Over 12 million people signed up for ACA plans this year. This fell short of the projected 13.8 million, but historically there has been an end-of-window surge every year and this January the new President ordered all promotion of signups and the impending deadline to cease, which undoubtedly hurt the number of participants.

Travel Ban

• Judge Derrick K. Watson of United States District Court in Honolulu issued a nationwide temporary restraining order against the revised travel ban. In part of his eviscerating ruling he writes, "The Government appropriately cautions that, in determining purpose, courts should not look into the "veiled psyche" and "secret motives" of government decisionmakers and may not undertake a "judicial psychoanalysis of a drafter's heart of hearts." ... The Government need not fear. The remarkable facts at issue here require no such impermissible inquiry. For instance, there is nothing "veiled" about this press release: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.""

• The President went full-authoritarian at his Nashville rally in reaction, saying "This ruling makes us look weak," and "people are suggesting breaking up the 9th circuit."

He called Travel Ban 2.0 "a watered down version of the 1st one" and indicated he wanted to return to that. Which 2.0 rescinded. And had lost five different court cases. He's... not a smart man.

• Five judges of the 9th Circuit supported the travel ban in a filing, writing that the panel's decision to block it "stands contrary to well-established separation-of-powers principles," and that "whatever we, as individuals, may feel about the President or the Executive Order, the President's decision was well within the powers of the presidency."

Foreign Relations

• Jason Greenblatt, the former Trump Organization chief legal officer, is now point man on peace in the West Bank. He reports not to the State Department, but to the president's son-in-law and senior advisor, Jared Kushner. When Trump named him his top Israeli affairs adviser during a meeting with Orthodox Jewish reporters in 2016, it took Greenblatt by surprise: "I knew that he was relying on me for certain aspects of Israel, but I didn't know I was his top adviser."

He has no diplomatic experience but his main sources of information are daily email alerts, American Israel Public Affairs Committee materials and a weekly Jewish radio program. "There's just a tremendous amount of literature out there, emails and all that, so I read all of those as often as I can."

The Hill

• After Rand Paul (R-KY) objected to John McCain's (R-AZ) motion advancing Montenegro's push for NATO membership in the face of a Russian-backed coup and walked out of the Senate chambers, McCain said, "the Senator from Kentucky is working for Vladimir Putin." No one made a move to Rule 19 him like when Dr. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) tried to read Coretta Scott King's letter on Jeff Sessions' racism into the record.

This has been Day 55 in Trumpistan. Good night!

Yawn. Stop boring us.
Hillary lost - get over it.
the red states lost
24 million poor Americans will lose their healthcare
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I don't know whether to put this in the What the f**k thread or here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-new-friend-a-great-guy-president-trump-full-of-praise-for-taoiseach-as-he-confirms-he-will-visit-ireland-35537632.html

Enda certainly put him in his place. Just goes to show how foolish Fine Gael publicly backing the democrats was.

Kenny going in to bat for undocumented irish in the states is embarrassing. If they are illegal they should be turfed out. No question. The government wants them to stay in the US I bet as they can't afford people returning.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2017, 09:11:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 06:46:34 PM
Yawn. Stop boring us.

Who's "us?" Are you schizophrenic?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on March 16, 2017, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I don't know whether to put this in the What the f**k thread or here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-new-friend-a-great-guy-president-trump-full-of-praise-for-taoiseach-as-he-confirms-he-will-visit-ireland-35537632.html

Enda certainly put him in his place. Just goes to show how foolish Fine Gael publicly backing the democrats was.

Kenny going in to bat for undocumented irish in the states is embarrassing. If they are illegal they should be turfed out. No question. The government wants them to stay in the US I bet as they can't afford people returning.

I have a few Irish friends that hold the same view, the irony is that they came over here legally on Donnelly or Morrison Visas that were won in lotteries back in the early 90's. These visas came about through the hard work of illegal Irish citizens living here in the 80's.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 09:34:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2017, 09:11:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 06:46:34 PM
Yawn. Stop boring us.

Who's "us?" Are you schizophrenic?

I'm not the one who holds differing views on accepting election results ;)
I hope you've told your psychiatrist about it. Since Trump won I bet she's got some good business out of you!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2017, 10:08:44 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 16, 2017, 05:57:32 PM
A bad day keeps continuing for Don - first the travel ban being blocked, then having to meet Enda Kenny - now this

(http://i.imgur.com/XBt6P0fl.jpg)

Its nothing but fake new to be reporting this... or something! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 16, 2017, 10:30:57 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on March 16, 2017, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I don't know whether to put this in the What the f**k thread or here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-new-friend-a-great-guy-president-trump-full-of-praise-for-taoiseach-as-he-confirms-he-will-visit-ireland-35537632.html

Enda certainly put him in his place. Just goes to show how foolish Fine Gael publicly backing the democrats was.

Kenny going in to bat for undocumented irish in the states is embarrassing. If they are illegal they should be turfed out. No question. The government wants them to stay in the US I bet as they can't afford people returning.

I have a few Irish friends that hold the same view, the irony is that they came over here legally on Donnelly or Morrison Visas that were won in lotteries back in the early 90's. These visas came about through the hard work of illegal Irish citizens living here in the 80's.

Your friends are morons then, no harm to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 16, 2017, 10:42:25 PM
Quote from: stew on March 16, 2017, 10:30:57 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on March 16, 2017, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I don't know whether to put this in the What the f**k thread or here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-new-friend-a-great-guy-president-trump-full-of-praise-for-taoiseach-as-he-confirms-he-will-visit-ireland-35537632.html

Enda certainly put him in his place. Just goes to show how foolish Fine Gael publicly backing the democrats was.

Kenny going in to bat for undocumented irish in the states is embarrassing. If they are illegal they should be turfed out. No question. The government wants them to stay in the US I bet as they can't afford people returning.

I have a few Irish friends that hold the same view, the irony is that they came over here legally on Donnelly or Morrison Visas that were won in lotteries back in the early 90's. These visas came about through the hard work of illegal Irish citizens living here in the 80's.

Your friends are morons then, no harm to them.
Are you saying they are morons for holding the view that the illegal Irish should be kicked out?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on March 16, 2017, 11:01:57 PM
Quote from: stew on March 16, 2017, 10:30:57 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on March 16, 2017, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I don't know whether to put this in the What the f**k thread or here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-new-friend-a-great-guy-president-trump-full-of-praise-for-taoiseach-as-he-confirms-he-will-visit-ireland-35537632.html

Enda certainly put him in his place. Just goes to show how foolish Fine Gael publicly backing the democrats was.

Kenny going in to bat for undocumented irish in the states is embarrassing. If they are illegal they should be turfed out. No question. The government wants them to stay in the US I bet as they can't afford people returning.

I have a few Irish friends that hold the same view, the irony is that they came over here legally on Donnelly or Morrison Visas that were won in lotteries back in the early 90's. These visas came about through the hard work of illegal Irish citizens living here in the 80's.

Your friends are morons then, no harm to them.

Something lacking alright ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on March 17, 2017, 12:33:33 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 06:46:34 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2017, 06:38:21 PM
QuoteWiretaps

• House Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) told reporters on Capitol Hill that "I don't think there was an actual tap of Trump Tower... We don't have any evidence that took place," and that the President, if taken literally, is simply "wrong."

• F.B.I. director James Comey will testify Monday at the committee's first public hearing on its Russian interference investigation, where he will also be grilled about whether or not the President was being surveilled.

• Senate Judiciary Chair Chuck Grassley (R-IA) & Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) threatened to block the deputy attorney general nominee until they get an answer from the F.B.I. about whether or not there was a wiretap.

• The President broke the "neither the White House nor the President will comment further" declaration on Fox tonight, saying "some very interesting items" would be revealed in the next two weeks and "Let's see whether or not I proved it." He also tried to follow Spicey's spin by saying that since "wiretap" was in quotes he didn't literally mean "wiretap" but surveillance in general — even though he only used quotes on two of the four tweets and he specifically wrote about tapping phones.

• In one of the more head-spinning displays of inconsistency and dissonance, the President said that he first heard about the wiretapping from a Jan. 20 New York Times article that "used that exact term," but he then went on to levy his usual insults against them, calling them "failing" and "dishonest media."
Cabinet

• The Senate confirmed Dan Coats as Director of National Intelligence 85-12.

The Fed

• Raised interest rates by a quarter-point in response to what it sees as a strengthened U.S. economy. The decision is meant to head off the prospect of rising inflation, which erodes savings and could destabilize the economy. It also means our payments on mortgages, credit cards, and other loans will increase. Higher rates also tend to slow economic growth and cut exports (due to a stronger dollar). Increasing both are priorities for the administration. The Fed expects two more rate bumps this year.

POTUS

• Held a rally in Nashville, TN today. Asked how long he was going to keep this up, he said, "We're going to do these rallies every two weeks."

Maybe they can just pipe an applause track into the White House hallways? It'll be a cheaper ego boost than this.

• He railed against the Ninth Circuit Court

• Said he would rather be cutting taxes now but has to do health care first.

I thought "Obamacare repeal" was always on his Day 1 agenda.

• Took a shot at Hillary and then walked around the dais soaking in the cheers & "Lock her up!" chants like a wrestler mugging to the audience.

• In an interview with Fox host Tucker Carlson, incorrectly claimed that assimilation of Muslims in the U.S. has "been a very hard process. It's been very very difficult."

• When asked by Carlson what evidence he's amassed regarding wiretapping the President could only cite media reports.

Press Secretary

• Spicey called it "despicable" and "offensive" to ask if the President — who has a history of leaking news about himself — leaked news (the 2005 tax forms) about himself.

Draining the Swamp

• Goldman Sachs managing director James Donovan will be nominated to serve as deputy treasury secretary. This would be the fifth Goldman veteran to take a senior role in the administration.

Health Care

• Current Senate vote estimate: 38-62 against.

• Rep. Dave Brat (R-VA) says he'll vote against the bill in a Budget Committee vote tomorrow. Three more votes on the committee and it won't make it to the House floor.

• A Fox News poll shows only 34% support among voters for TrumpCare.

• Last week Speaker of the House Paul Ryan was saying that "this is the bill." They rammed it through Ways & Means with no amendments before the CBO score came out. Now faced with GOP opposition from both sides, Ryan says they will "incorporate feedback to improve this bill, to refine this bill."

• The "Phase Three" bills in the GOP's health care plan, including one that would allow insurers to sell across state lines, will start arriving next week according to House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy. These will not be able to be passed under the budgetary reconciliation process and so will need 8 Senate Democrats to reach 60 votes.

• Health & Human Services Secretary Tom Price participated in a CNN town hall tonight on TrumpCare and demonstrated that he does not know what is in the bill. When asked by Dana Bash why they were repealing the prohibition on insurance providers writing off executive salaries greater than $500,000, Price stammered, claimed that it wasn't in the bill, then tried to recover and talk about how it was un-American to tax *people* making the same amount different rates, which is not what that provision did at all.

• Secretary Price, a physician, also believes that states should be able to determine if immunizations are required.

• Over 12 million people signed up for ACA plans this year. This fell short of the projected 13.8 million, but historically there has been an end-of-window surge every year and this January the new President ordered all promotion of signups and the impending deadline to cease, which undoubtedly hurt the number of participants.

Travel Ban

• Judge Derrick K. Watson of United States District Court in Honolulu issued a nationwide temporary restraining order against the revised travel ban. In part of his eviscerating ruling he writes, "The Government appropriately cautions that, in determining purpose, courts should not look into the "veiled psyche" and "secret motives" of government decisionmakers and may not undertake a "judicial psychoanalysis of a drafter's heart of hearts." ... The Government need not fear. The remarkable facts at issue here require no such impermissible inquiry. For instance, there is nothing "veiled" about this press release: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.""

• The President went full-authoritarian at his Nashville rally in reaction, saying "This ruling makes us look weak," and "people are suggesting breaking up the 9th circuit."

He called Travel Ban 2.0 "a watered down version of the 1st one" and indicated he wanted to return to that. Which 2.0 rescinded. And had lost five different court cases. He's... not a smart man.

• Five judges of the 9th Circuit supported the travel ban in a filing, writing that the panel's decision to block it "stands contrary to well-established separation-of-powers principles," and that "whatever we, as individuals, may feel about the President or the Executive Order, the President's decision was well within the powers of the presidency."

Foreign Relations

• Jason Greenblatt, the former Trump Organization chief legal officer, is now point man on peace in the West Bank. He reports not to the State Department, but to the president's son-in-law and senior advisor, Jared Kushner. When Trump named him his top Israeli affairs adviser during a meeting with Orthodox Jewish reporters in 2016, it took Greenblatt by surprise: "I knew that he was relying on me for certain aspects of Israel, but I didn't know I was his top adviser."

He has no diplomatic experience but his main sources of information are daily email alerts, American Israel Public Affairs Committee materials and a weekly Jewish radio program. "There's just a tremendous amount of literature out there, emails and all that, so I read all of those as often as I can."

The Hill

• After Rand Paul (R-KY) objected to John McCain's (R-AZ) motion advancing Montenegro's push for NATO membership in the face of a Russian-backed coup and walked out of the Senate chambers, McCain said, "the Senator from Kentucky is working for Vladimir Putin." No one made a move to Rule 19 him like when Dr. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) tried to read Coretta Scott King's letter on Jeff Sessions' racism into the record.

This has been Day 55 in Trumpistan. Good night!

Yawn. Stop boring us.
Hillary lost - get over it.

Lol. You still believe that was a good thing?  Unbelievable. Haters of Clinton called her a lying manipulative bullying bitch. But a lying manipulative bullying p***k President is acceptable. Great result for misogynists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 17, 2017, 02:48:14 AM
foxcommander isn't sure what he wants... he wanted to drain the swamp but that hasn't happened... he wanted less mooslims but that hasn't happened... he wanted Mexico to pay for the wall and that hasn't happened... poor guy doesn't know if the world's up or down.

As long as Hillary didn't win though everything is alright!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 03:57:17 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 17, 2017, 02:48:14 AM
foxcommander isn't sure what he wants... he wanted to drain the swamp but that hasn't happened... he wanted less mooslims but that hasn't happened... he wanted Mexico to pay for the wall and that hasn't happened... poor guy doesn't know if the world's up or down.

As long as Hillary didn't win though everything is alright!!

Poor Americans will pay for the wall.....


https://www.ft.com/content/a6cdada8-0a60-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b
"It proposes cutting every federal department barring the Pentagon and the Department of Homeland Security. Some, such as the state department and the Environmental Protection Agency, would be slashed by almost a third. Others, including agriculture, labour, education and commerce would face cuts of up to a fifth. Whole programmes, such as the National Endowment for the Arts and the Legal Services Corporation, which funds legal aid to those who cannot afford it, would be closed down altogether. Others facing the axe would include Nasa's climate research budget, which is too "earth-centric", according to the White House. The world-renowned National Institutes of Health would shrink by a fifth. The Internal Revenue Service would be cut by 5 per cent.To one degree or another, Mr Trump wants to cut everything in order to fatten up the military budget and build a border wall with Mexico"

Mexico won't pay

Trump is 100% taking the piss
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 04:12:22 AM
Mexico is going to pay for the wall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5gm07oKdt0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 17, 2017, 05:59:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I don't know whether to put this in the What the f**k thread or here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-new-friend-a-great-guy-president-trump-full-of-praise-for-taoiseach-as-he-confirms-he-will-visit-ireland-35537632.html

Enda certainly put him in his place. Just goes to show how foolish Fine Gael publicly backing the democrats was.

Kenny going in to bat for undocumented irish in the states is embarrassing. If they are illegal they should be turfed out. No question. The government wants them to stay in the US I bet as they can't afford people returning.

Do you ever read/review the stuff you post? You should.. you might decide that you are not the most talented mean spirited troll on the board.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 06:03:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I don't know whether to put this in the What the f**k thread or here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-new-friend-a-great-guy-president-trump-full-of-praise-for-taoiseach-as-he-confirms-he-will-visit-ireland-35537632.html

Enda certainly put him in his place. Just goes to show how foolish Fine Gael publicly backing the democrats was.

Kenny going in to bat for undocumented irish in the states is embarrassing. If they are illegal they should be turfed out. No question. The government wants them to stay in the US I bet as they can't afford people returning.
Some of the posters on this site are illegals, Foxy.
You are a disgrace
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 17, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
The Chemical Safety Board is for the chop too. Sure why doesn't he get rid of the NTSB then while he's at it, if there's no value in an agency that investigates major accidents or explosions?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 17, 2017, 02:00:52 PM
Have to agree that the idea of Kenny specially pleading on behalf of Irish illegals is ludicrous. They should not get special treatment. If Kenny wants to point out the inhumanity and callousness of Trump's round-ups, sudden detentions, deportations and family-splitting policies in general, then more power to him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 03:39:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 17, 2017, 02:00:52 PM
Have to agree that the idea of Kenny specially pleading on behalf of Irish illegals is ludicrous. They should not get special treatment. If Kenny wants to point out the inhumanity and callousness of Trump's round-ups, sudden detentions, deportations and family-splitting policies in general, then more power to him.

Every SPD the Taoiseach goes to DC and 2 things happen:

-there is a bowl of shamrock
-the illegals are mentioned
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 03:56:05 PM
Trump is insane

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/03/17/trump-behind-health-care-bill-sot.cnn


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trumptanic-approaches-repeal-iceberg-everything-is-fine
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2017, 04:16:09 PM
The assault on knowledge, facts, science and human decency continues.

The U.S. Office of Management and Budget has released a budget "blueprint (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3518021/WHbudgetproposal.pdf)" which outlines substantial cuts in both basic research and applied technology funding (http://www.nature.com/news/us-science-agencies-face-deep-cuts-in-trump-budget-1.21652).

The proposal includes a whopping 18% reduction in National Institutes of Health medical research. NIH does get a new $500 million fund to track emerging infectious agents like Zika in the U.S., but loses its funding to monitor those agents overseas. The Department of Energy's research programs also get an 18% cut in research, potentially affecting basic physics research, high energy physics, fusion research, and supercomputing. Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA-E) gets the ax, as does the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing Program (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Technology_Vehicles_Manufacturing_Loan_Program), which enabled Tesla to manufacture its Model S sedan.

EPA loses all climate research funding, and about half the research funding targeted at human health impacts of pollution. The Energy Star program is eliminated; Superfund funding is drastically reduced. The Chesapeake Bay and Great Lakes cleanup programs are also eliminated, as is all screening of pesticides for endocrine disruption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor).

In the Department of Commerce, Sea Grant (http://wxxinews.org/post/trump-budget-cuts-great-lakes-restoration-sea-grant-programs) is eliminated, along with all coastal zone research funding. Existing weather satellites GOES and JPSS continue funding, but JPSS-3 and -4 appear to be getting the ax. Support for transfer of federally funded research and technology to small and mid-sized manufacturers is eliminated. NASA gets a slight trim, and a new focus on deep space exploration paid for by an elimination of Earth Science programs.

You can read more about this "blueprint" in Nature (http://www.nature.com/news/us-science-agencies-face-deep-cuts-in-trump-budget-1.21652), Science (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/nih-doe-office-science-face-deep-cuts-trumps-first-budget), and the Washington Post, which broke the story (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-presidential-budget-2018-proposal/?utm_term=.66a7e0147331).

The Environmental Protection Agency, the State Department and Agriculture Department took the hardest hits, while the Defense Department, Department of Homeland Security, and Department of Veterans Affairs have seen their budgets grow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 17, 2017, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2017, 04:16:09 PM
The assault on knowledge, facts, science and human decency continues.

The U.S. Office of Management and Budget has released a budget "blueprint (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3518021/WHbudgetproposal.pdf)" which outlines substantial cuts in both basic research and applied technology funding (http://www.nature.com/news/us-science-agencies-face-deep-cuts-in-trump-budget-1.21652).

The proposal includes a whopping 18% reduction in National Institutes of Health medical research. NIH does get a new $500 million fund to track emerging infectious agents like Zika in the U.S., but loses its funding to monitor those agents overseas. The Department of Energy's research programs also get an 18% cut in research, potentially affecting basic physics research, high energy physics, fusion research, and supercomputing. Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA-E) gets the ax, as does the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing Program (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Technology_Vehicles_Manufacturing_Loan_Program), which enabled Tesla to manufacture its Model S sedan.

EPA loses all climate research funding, and about half the research funding targeted at human health impacts of pollution. The Energy Star program is eliminated; Superfund funding is drastically reduced. The Chesapeake Bay and Great Lakes cleanup programs are also eliminated, as is all screening of pesticides for endocrine disruption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor).

In the Department of Commerce, Sea Grant (http://wxxinews.org/post/trump-budget-cuts-great-lakes-restoration-sea-grant-programs) is eliminated, along with all coastal zone research funding. Existing weather satellites GOES and JPSS continue funding, but JPSS-3 and -4 appear to be getting the ax. Support for transfer of federally funded research and technology to small and mid-sized manufacturers is eliminated. NASA gets a slight trim, and a new focus on deep space exploration paid for by an elimination of Earth Science programs.

You can read more about this "blueprint" in Nature (http://www.nature.com/news/us-science-agencies-face-deep-cuts-in-trump-budget-1.21652), Science (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/nih-doe-office-science-face-deep-cuts-trumps-first-budget), and the Washington Post, which broke the story (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-presidential-budget-2018-proposal/?utm_term=.66a7e0147331).

The Environmental Protection Agency, the State Department and Agriculture Department took the hardest hits, while the Defense Department, Department of Homeland Security, and Department of Veterans Affairs have seen their budgets grow.

I would say let him go all in on this ignorant, know-nothing approach, but the problem will be getting this stuff back up and running again even if he's kicked out on his arse in 2020.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2017, 05:31:31 PM
Yup. It took Obama just about the full 8 years to undo the damage Bush did
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 18, 2017, 07:59:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 06:03:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2017, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I don't know whether to put this in the What the f**k thread or here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-new-friend-a-great-guy-president-trump-full-of-praise-for-taoiseach-as-he-confirms-he-will-visit-ireland-35537632.html

Enda certainly put him in his place. Just goes to show how foolish Fine Gael publicly backing the democrats was.

Kenny going in to bat for undocumented irish in the states is embarrassing. If they are illegal they should be turfed out. No question. The government wants them to stay in the US I bet as they can't afford people returning.
Some of the posters on this site are illegals, Foxy.
You are a disgrace

Hardly, who gives a shit about some on here being illegal, are we supposed to change our opinion just because it might offend an illegal immigrant because what? He is Irish?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 18, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2017, 05:31:31 PM
Yup. It took Obama just about the full 8 years to undo the damage Bush did

Obama was a disaster Eamon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2017, 01:57:50 PM
Quote from: stew on March 18, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2017, 05:31:31 PM
Yup. It took Obama just about the full 8 years to undo the damage Bush did

Obama was a disaster Eamon.
Obama was mediocre but within normal ranges. Trump is appalling. One of the biggest problems in US politics  is the state of the GOP. The party is broken.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 18, 2017, 02:14:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2017, 05:31:31 PM
Yup. It took Obama just about the full 8 years to undo the damage Bush did
Indeed it did and people thought Bush junior was bad.. I already pity the next president that will have to try to clean up the mess that Trump will leave behind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 19, 2017, 12:51:00 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 18, 2017, 02:14:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2017, 05:31:31 PM
Yup. It took Obama just about the full 8 years to undo the damage Bush did
Indeed it did and people thought Bush junior was bad.. I already pity the next president that will have to try to clean up the mess that Trump will leave behind.

obama was useless for the most part, useless and weak.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2017, 10:38:18 AM
Getting back to citizens not understanding risk...

(http://images.dailykos.com/images/377347/story_image/1329ckCOMIC-trump-protects-americans.png?1489521137)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 20, 2017, 04:06:21 PM
Excellent! More from the same stable:

(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/Trump%205%20Toddler%20gun%20menace_zps4prloput.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/Trump%205%20Toddler%20gun%20menace_zps4prloput.png.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 20, 2017, 04:48:15 PM
So the FBI says Russia wanted to hurt Democracy, hurt Clinton and help Trump . . . interesting stuff!!

Still doesn't explain Comey's nothing statement days before the election that they were looking into Hillary again even though they had nothing. It's a start though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 20, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
So actual proof of attempts to influence the election is finally uncovered. Outrage please liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/17/brazile-admits-forwarded-debate-questions-to-clinton-camp.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
So actual proof of attempts to influence the election is finally uncovered. Outrage please liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/17/brazile-admits-forwarded-debate-questions-to-clinton-camp.html

I thought this was already established??

Besides, WTF do you care? It was an in-house Democratic affair, which purportedly harmed the ultra liberal in the race! ;)

Looks bad, shows corruption on her part (and I'm sure pissed CNN off!), but its overblown as f**k, in my opinion, in terms of actual effect on anything. If this is Brazile trying to influence a debate, she needs to try harder.

I mean, is anyone really suggesting that Clinton (or Sanders) would not armed with knowledge and an answer on the lead contamination in Flint in a debate taking place in Flint at the very time that the contamination was a leading national news story?

Or that ANYONE (even Trump!) running for president wouldn't have off by heart their answer on a death penalty question?

Seriously?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2017, 01:57:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 20, 2017, 04:48:15 PM
So the FBI says Russia wanted to hurt Democracy, hurt Clinton and help Trump . . . interesting stuff!!

Still doesn't explain Comey's nothing statement days before the election that they were looking into Hillary again even though they had nothing. It's a start though.

Trump and the boys are worried though, judging by his tweeting yesterday and Spicer's ludicrous Comical Ali style statement that Trump's campaign manager was only tangentially connected to the campaign! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2017, 01:58:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 20, 2017, 04:06:21 PM
Excellent! More from the same stable:

(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/Trump%205%20Toddler%20gun%20menace_zps4prloput.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/Trump%205%20Toddler%20gun%20menace_zps4prloput.png.html)

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2017, 03:36:07 PM
The media and the intelligence agencies are on to Trump's mendacity.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/20/trump-fantasy-reality-travel-ban-nato-funding
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2017, 09:47:28 AM
Even the WSJ has had enough and is out today with an editorial telling Trump to ease up on the bald-faced lies and bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
It's getting farcical all right.

"This summit is designed to bring Africa to America's doorstep for investments and trade. We can't have the government telling us to go do business with Africa and then you slam the doors in their face.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/20/no-african-citizens-visas-california-annual-trade-summit?CMP=fb_gu
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2017, 10:09:28 PM
https://newrepublic.com/article/141398/trump-might-realizes-hes-losing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on March 23, 2017, 12:01:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2017, 10:38:18 AM
Getting back to citizens not understanding risk...

(http://images.dailykos.com/images/377347/story_image/1329ckCOMIC-trump-protects-americans.png?1489521137)

Amazing that cancer is so near to heart dx for deaths. Shocked to see Parkinson's so high on the list as well. Would have thought it would feature much lower.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 23, 2017, 09:24:22 AM
So the President feels the need to tweet about 4 people losing their lives in the UK but no mention of this. . .

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/23/wisconsin-shooting-four-dead-after-family-dispute-at-bank?CMP=share_btn_tw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2017, 11:07:28 AM
It looks like the GOP presidential campaign involved high level contacts with Russia to gather dirt on the Dems and that this helped Trump win.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 23, 2017, 11:52:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2017, 11:07:28 AM
It looks like the GOP presidential campaign involved high level contacts with Russia to gather dirt on the Dems and that this helped Trump win.

I don't think it was any dirt on the Dems that lost them the election.  It was the general presumption that it was Hilary's turn to be president that turned people agaiinst the Dems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 23, 2017, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 23, 2017, 11:52:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2017, 11:07:28 AM
It looks like the GOP presidential campaign involved high level contacts with Russia to gather dirt on the Dems and that this helped Trump win.

I don't think it was any dirt on the Dems that lost them the election.  It was the general presumption that it was Hilary's turn to be president that turned people agaiinst the Dems.

Bullshit! She ran on giving the country 4 more years of Obama, that and the fact she is a corrupt, hateful tr**p is the reason she lost to the man who would have lost to anyone else, even Saunders vision of socialism was more palatable to the American people than four more years of ineptitude under Obama light.

The democrats are filthy, reeking of corruption,they care about votes not people and through their arrogance, stupidity and laziness, as well as the aforementioned reasons, find themselves the opposition party, and that despite the vast majority of the media  outlets in the country aiding and abetting them, thats how fucked they are and hell slap it up them.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 23, 2017, 02:25:20 PM
Balls. After pussygate Trump was a beaten docket. Then the wikileaks emails came which didn't really show anything of value.

The main reason Clinton lost was Comey saying they were opening up the investigation of emails again which was complete madness and most definitely lost her the election. How soon was the FBI investigation closed again after the election? Didn't matter too late!

It's funny all these people who didn't want 4 more years of Obama are jumping on the bandwagon to stop this new healthcare bill from being forced through!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
So actual proof of attempts to influence the election is finally uncovered. Outrage please liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/17/brazile-admits-forwarded-debate-questions-to-clinton-camp.html

I thought this was already established??

Besides, WTF do you care? It was an in-house Democratic affair, which purportedly harmed the ultra liberal in the race! ;)

Looks bad, shows corruption on her part (and I'm sure pissed CNN off!), but its overblown as f**k, in my opinion, in terms of actual effect on anything. If this is Brazile trying to influence a debate, she needs to try harder.

I mean, is anyone really suggesting that Clinton (or Sanders) would not armed with knowledge and an answer on the lead contamination in Flint in a debate taking place in Flint at the very time that the contamination was a leading national news story?

Or that ANYONE (even Trump!) running for president wouldn't have off by heart their answer on a death penalty question?

Seriously?

At least now it's on the record as fact. While I'll agree it was an in-house democrat affair it still shows that the democratic process was being bypassed due to certain elements trying to rig the vote by helping one side. THAT's rigging an election, not this russian bogeyman nonsense.
If the wikileaks information was false then I would accept that it influenced an election. But it wasn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 23, 2017, 04:46:27 PM
Mr Trump saw fit to tweet about the American killed in the Islamist Terror attack in London but still no mention for Timothy Caughman killed in a racist terror attack in NYC??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2017, 04:47:30 PM
The Russian thing is not as much bogeyman as treasonous. Anything to get power . Flynn, Manafort and 2 others.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 23, 2017, 04:50:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2017, 04:47:30 PM
The Russian thing is not as much bogeyman as treasonous. Anything to get power . Flynn, Manafort and 2 others.
And anything to undermine the investigation of it, as Trump shill Devin Nunes proved yesterday.

The Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee shredding his own credibility and the credibility of his own committee to investigate in one fell swoop.

Desperation stakes, now.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2017, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
So actual proof of attempts to influence the election is finally uncovered. Outrage please liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/17/brazile-admits-forwarded-debate-questions-to-clinton-camp.html

I thought this was already established??

Besides, WTF do you care? It was an in-house Democratic affair, which purportedly harmed the ultra liberal in the race! ;)

Looks bad, shows corruption on her part (and I'm sure pissed CNN off!), but its overblown as f**k, in my opinion, in terms of actual effect on anything. If this is Brazile trying to influence a debate, she needs to try harder.

I mean, is anyone really suggesting that Clinton (or Sanders) would not armed with knowledge and an answer on the lead contamination in Flint in a debate taking place in Flint at the very time that the contamination was a leading national news story?

Or that ANYONE (even Trump!) running for president wouldn't have off by heart their answer on a death penalty question?

Seriously?

At least now it's on the record as fact. While I'll agree it was an in-house democrat affair it still shows that the democratic process was being bypassed due to certain elements trying to rig the vote by helping one side. THAT's rigging an election, not this russian bogeyman nonsense.
If the wikileaks information was false then I would accept that it influenced an election. But it wasn't.

Of course it influenced the election. Do you think its coincidental that only one side was targeted? Do you really believe that embarrassing revelations would not have come had they either hacked or released communications from the RNC?

And if the Russian stuff is such nonsense, why has the FBI been investigating it since last summer? (One wonders why Comey didn't see fit to release that little tibit of information right before the election?) Why did Spicer debase and humiliate himself even further on Trump's behalf by his pathetic attempt to downplay the role of Manafort in the campaign ("the campaign manager was only tangentially connected to the campaign" ;D ;D) and lie about the length of time he was involved? Why did Trump fire Flynn?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 23, 2017, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2017, 02:25:20 PM
Balls. After pussygate Trump was a beaten docket. Then the wikileaks emails came which didn't really show anything of value.

The main reason Clinton lost was Comey saying they were opening up the investigation of emails again which was complete madness and most definitely lost her the election. How soon was the FBI investigation closed again after the election? Didn't matter too late!

It's funny all these people who didn't want 4 more years of Obama are jumping on the bandwagon to stop this new healthcare bill from being forced through!!

DID THE DEMOCRATS CONSPIRE TO HELP HILLARY CLINTON IN HER BID FOR THE NOMINATION AT THE EXPENSE OF ONE BERNIE SAUNDERS?

IS HILLARY CLINTON PERCEIVED AS A HATED FIGURE IN AMERICAN POLITICS

HAD YOU HEARD OF COMEY PRIOR TO THIS ELECTION? ( YOU WILL SAY YES BUT YOU ARE FULL OF SHITE)

DID HILLORY CLINTON RUN ON A PLATFORM OF FOUR MORE YEARS OF OBAMA AND DID SHE WIN ON THAT PLATFORM????

You people are deluded, absolutely deluded cnn loving morons who can live with bribery and corruption so your liberal masters can wield power at the expense of the people, you are apologists for the corruption that is rife in the party you support and you are incapable os seeing any good in the current president because, according to you, he is the single worst President of all time and the only human being in history never to make a good political decision, you are f**king moronic imbeciles and that is being kind to moronic imbeciles.

Bernie Saunders should be President, you stupid f**kers, you arrogant imbeciles helped create President Trump due in part to your steadfast belief in a party so corrupt and vile, that they laid waste to the democratic process and illegally propped up a person so repugnant she could not beat Trump, f**king Trump, one to one, Saunders would have destroyed Trump and none of this hatred would have been necessary!

I blame the democrat party for this election 100%, you bastards rigged it to the detrement of the world and now you whine like a pig giving birth, f**k you all and remember, you are the party that gave the world slavery, Hiroshima, nagasaki and Trump, thanks liberals, preciate it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2017, 08:01:32 PM
People of YOUR beliefs voted for Trump stew.

If you want to justify that by arguing that he was the lesser of two evils, go for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2017, 08:07:14 PM
So the lunatics rejected Trumpcare. Vote postponed. Not punitive enough for them! Trump's famed negotiating skills come up short. And now they're stuck trying to thread the needle between the lunatics and the more sane, pragmatic, realistic fringe of the party.

Good luck with that! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2017, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2017, 08:07:14 PM
So the lunatics rejected Trumpcare. Vote postponed. Not punitive enough for them! Trump's famed negotiating skills come up short. And now they're stuck trying to thread the needle between the lunatics and the more sane, pragmatic, realistic fringe of the party.

Good luck with that! :)
It's Trump v the Kochs. Cholera vs famine.
The plan is dead in the water. Trump can't serve his voters and the 1% and healthcare is the proof.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2017, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
So actual proof of attempts to influence the election is finally uncovered. Outrage please liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/17/brazile-admits-forwarded-debate-questions-to-clinton-camp.html

I thought this was already established??

Besides, WTF do you care? It was an in-house Democratic affair, which purportedly harmed the ultra liberal in the race! ;)

Looks bad, shows corruption on her part (and I'm sure pissed CNN off!), but its overblown as f**k, in my opinion, in terms of actual effect on anything. If this is Brazile trying to influence a debate, she needs to try harder.

I mean, is anyone really suggesting that Clinton (or Sanders) would not armed with knowledge and an answer on the lead contamination in Flint in a debate taking place in Flint at the very time that the contamination was a leading national news story?

Or that ANYONE (even Trump!) running for president wouldn't have off by heart their answer on a death penalty question?

Seriously?

At least now it's on the record as fact. While I'll agree it was an in-house democrat affair it still shows that the democratic process was being bypassed due to certain elements trying to rig the vote by helping one side. THAT's rigging an election, not this russian bogeyman nonsense.
If the wikileaks information was false then I would accept that it influenced an election. But it wasn't.

Of course it influenced the election. Do you think its coincidental that only one side was targeted? Do you really believe that embarrassing revelations would not have come had they either hacked or released communications from the RNC?

And if the Russian stuff is such nonsense, why has the FBI been investigating it since last summer? (One wonders why Comey didn't see fit to release that little tibit of information right before the election?) Why did Spicer debase and humiliate himself even further on Trump's behalf by his pathetic attempt to downplay the role of Manafort in the campaign ("the campaign manager was only tangentially connected to the campaign" ;D ;D) and lie about the length of time he was involved? Why did Trump fire Flynn?

Probably because the kenyan lad was running the FBI at the time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 23, 2017, 10:17:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2017, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
So actual proof of attempts to influence the election is finally uncovered. Outrage please liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/17/brazile-admits-forwarded-debate-questions-to-clinton-camp.html

I thought this was already established??

Besides, WTF do you care? It was an in-house Democratic affair, which purportedly harmed the ultra liberal in the race! ;)

Looks bad, shows corruption on her part (and I'm sure pissed CNN off!), but its overblown as f**k, in my opinion, in terms of actual effect on anything. If this is Brazile trying to influence a debate, she needs to try harder.

I mean, is anyone really suggesting that Clinton (or Sanders) would not armed with knowledge and an answer on the lead contamination in Flint in a debate taking place in Flint at the very time that the contamination was a leading national news story?

Or that ANYONE (even Trump!) running for president wouldn't have off by heart their answer on a death penalty question?

Seriously?

At least now it's on the record as fact. While I'll agree it was an in-house democrat affair it still shows that the democratic process was being bypassed due to certain elements trying to rig the vote by helping one side. THAT's rigging an election, not this russian bogeyman nonsense.
If the wikileaks information was false then I would accept that it influenced an election. But it wasn't.

Of course it influenced the election. Do you think its coincidental that only one side was targeted? Do you really believe that embarrassing revelations would not have come had they either hacked or released communications from the RNC?

And if the Russian stuff is such nonsense, why has the FBI been investigating it since last summer? (One wonders why Comey didn't see fit to release that little tibit of information right before the election?) Why did Spicer debase and humiliate himself even further on Trump's behalf by his pathetic attempt to downplay the role of Manafort in the campaign ("the campaign manager was only tangentially connected to the campaign" ;D ;D) and lie about the length of time he was involved? Why did Trump fire Flynn?

Probably because the kenyan lad was running the FBI at the time.
Pity the German lad isn't up to running anything.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2017, 12:10:25 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2017, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
So actual proof of attempts to influence the election is finally uncovered. Outrage please liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/17/brazile-admits-forwarded-debate-questions-to-clinton-camp.html

I thought this was already established??

Besides, WTF do you care? It was an in-house Democratic affair, which purportedly harmed the ultra liberal in the race! ;)

Looks bad, shows corruption on her part (and I'm sure pissed CNN off!), but its overblown as f**k, in my opinion, in terms of actual effect on anything. If this is Brazile trying to influence a debate, she needs to try harder.

I mean, is anyone really suggesting that Clinton (or Sanders) would not armed with knowledge and an answer on the lead contamination in Flint in a debate taking place in Flint at the very time that the contamination was a leading national news story?

Or that ANYONE (even Trump!) running for president wouldn't have off by heart their answer on a death penalty question?

Seriously?

At least now it's on the record as fact. While I'll agree it was an in-house democrat affair it still shows that the democratic process was being bypassed due to certain elements trying to rig the vote by helping one side. THAT's rigging an election, not this russian bogeyman nonsense.
If the wikileaks information was false then I would accept that it influenced an election. But it wasn't.

Of course it influenced the election. Do you think its coincidental that only one side was targeted? Do you really believe that embarrassing revelations would not have come had they either hacked or released communications from the RNC?

And if the Russian stuff is such nonsense, why has the FBI been investigating it since last summer? (One wonders why Comey didn't see fit to release that little tibit of information right before the election?) Why did Spicer debase and humiliate himself even further on Trump's behalf by his pathetic attempt to downplay the role of Manafort in the campaign ("the campaign manager was only tangentially connected to the campaign" ;D ;D) and lie about the length of time he was involved? Why did Trump fire Flynn?

Probably because the kenyan lad was running the FBI at the time.

That makes a lot of sense. Explains why they were investigating Hillary and sabotaged her campaign a week before the election. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on March 24, 2017, 04:10:02 AM
Who the f**k is this Tucker Carlson twat? Watch this space in the coming years for a new breed of Fox News fear mongering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 24, 2017, 09:15:27 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on March 24, 2017, 04:10:02 AM
Who the f**k is this Tucker Carlson twat? Watch this space in the coming years for a new breed of Fox News fear mongering.

Crazy he had Hopkins on yesterday and some dickhead who said that Terrorists "shut down London" which is not even remotely true!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 24, 2017, 09:23:09 AM
Quote from: stew on March 23, 2017, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2017, 02:25:20 PM
Balls. After pussygate Trump was a beaten docket. Then the wikileaks emails came which didn't really show anything of value.

The main reason Clinton lost was Comey saying they were opening up the investigation of emails again which was complete madness and most definitely lost her the election. How soon was the FBI investigation closed again after the election? Didn't matter too late!

It's funny all these people who didn't want 4 more years of Obama are jumping on the bandwagon to stop this new healthcare bill from being forced through!!

DID THE DEMOCRATS CONSPIRE TO HELP HILLARY CLINTON IN HER BID FOR THE NOMINATION AT THE EXPENSE OF ONE BERNIE SAUNDERS?

IS HILLARY CLINTON PERCEIVED AS A HATED FIGURE IN AMERICAN POLITICS

HAD YOU HEARD OF COMEY PRIOR TO THIS ELECTION? ( YOU WILL SAY YES BUT YOU ARE FULL OF SHITE)

DID HILLORY CLINTON RUN ON A PLATFORM OF FOUR MORE YEARS OF OBAMA AND DID SHE WIN ON THAT PLATFORM????

You people are deluded, absolutely deluded cnn loving morons who can live with bribery and corruption so your liberal masters can wield power at the expense of the people, you are apologists for the corruption that is rife in the party you support and you are incapable os seeing any good in the current president because, according to you, he is the single worst President of all time and the only human being in history never to make a good political decision, you are f**king moronic imbeciles and that is being kind to moronic imbeciles.

Bernie Saunders should be President, you stupid f**kers, you arrogant imbeciles helped create President Trump due in part to your steadfast belief in a party so corrupt and vile, that they laid waste to the democratic process and illegally propped up a person so repugnant she could not beat Trump, f**king Trump, one to one, Saunders would have destroyed Trump and none of this hatred would have been necessary!

I blame the democrat party for this election 100%, you b**tards rigged it to the detrement of the world and now you whine like a pig giving birth, f**k you all and remember, you are the party that gave the world slavery, Hiroshima, nagasaki and Trump, thanks liberals, preciate it!

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/o7o6KadaJ9bq/200.webp#2)

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2017, 01:57:43 PM
So far, to the best of my knowledge, 2 people have been arrested for calling in bomb threats to Synagogues and Jewish Community centers......one is an African American Bernie Sansers supporter, and the other is a Jewish man with dual US/Israeli citizenship

Codnt make it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 24, 2017, 03:28:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2017, 12:10:25 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2017, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
So actual proof of attempts to influence the election is finally uncovered. Outrage please liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/17/brazile-admits-forwarded-debate-questions-to-clinton-camp.html

I thought this was already established??

Besides, WTF do you care? It was an in-house Democratic affair, which purportedly harmed the ultra liberal in the race! ;)

Looks bad, shows corruption on her part (and I'm sure pissed CNN off!), but its overblown as f**k, in my opinion, in terms of actual effect on anything. If this is Brazile trying to influence a debate, she needs to try harder.

I mean, is anyone really suggesting that Clinton (or Sanders) would not armed with knowledge and an answer on the lead contamination in Flint in a debate taking place in Flint at the very time that the contamination was a leading national news story?

Or that ANYONE (even Trump!) running for president wouldn't have off by heart their answer on a death penalty question?

Seriously?

At least now it's on the record as fact. While I'll agree it was an in-house democrat affair it still shows that the democratic process was being bypassed due to certain elements trying to rig the vote by helping one side. THAT's rigging an election, not this russian bogeyman nonsense.
If the wikileaks information was false then I would accept that it influenced an election. But it wasn't.

Of course it influenced the election. Do you think its coincidental that only one side was targeted? Do you really believe that embarrassing revelations would not have come had they either hacked or released communications from the RNC?

And if the Russian stuff is such nonsense, why has the FBI been investigating it since last summer? (One wonders why Comey didn't see fit to release that little tibit of information right before the election?) Why did Spicer debase and humiliate himself even further on Trump's behalf by his pathetic attempt to downplay the role of Manafort in the campaign ("the campaign manager was only tangentially connected to the campaign" ;D ;D) and lie about the length of time he was involved? Why did Trump fire Flynn?

Probably because the kenyan lad was running the FBI at the time.

That makes a lot of sense. Explains why they were investigating Hillary and sabotaged her campaign a week before the election. ::)
Do you really think him and Hillary were friends?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 24, 2017, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on March 24, 2017, 04:10:02 AM
Who the f**k is this Tucker Carlson twat? Watch this space in the coming years for a new breed of Fox News fear mongering.

Tucker Carlson is an up and coming star on Fox news, he is an excellent interviewer and he has skewered a few people both left and right during some of his interviews.

Just because he is right of centre does not make him a twat!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2017, 03:59:31 PM
Quote from: stew on March 24, 2017, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on March 24, 2017, 04:10:02 AM
Who the f**k is this Tucker Carlson twat? Watch this space in the coming years for a new breed of Fox News fear mongering.

Tucker Carlson is an up and coming star on Fox news, he is an excellent interviewer and he has skewered a few people both left and right during some of his interviews.

Just because he is right of centre does not make him a twat!

Au contraire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE)

Jon Stewart made a little boy of Carlson, put a stop to him wearing that stupid bow tie, and killed that show. That's an iconic 15 minutes of TV.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 24, 2017, 04:33:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2017, 03:59:31 PM
Quote from: stew on March 24, 2017, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on March 24, 2017, 04:10:02 AM
Who the f**k is this Tucker Carlson twat? Watch this space in the coming years for a new breed of Fox News fear mongering.

Tucker Carlson is an up and coming star on Fox news, he is an excellent interviewer and he has skewered a few people both left and right during some of his interviews.

Just because he is right of centre does not make him a twat!

Au contraire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE)

Jon Stewart made a little boy of Carlson, put a stop to him wearing that stupid bow tie, and killed that show. That's an iconic 15 minutes of TV.


The show was crap long before he took pot shots at it and he killed no one in that show, I like Stewart for the most part but he let himself down during the writers strike and was called out on this by I think Seth McFarlane of all people.

Stew is a liberal, a very smart liberal who makes a lot of sense a lot of the time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on March 24, 2017, 06:47:21 PM
Quote from: stew on March 24, 2017, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on March 24, 2017, 04:10:02 AM
Who the f**k is this Tucker Carlson twat? Watch this space in the coming years for a new breed of Fox News fear mongering.

Tucker Carlson is an up and coming star on Fox news, he is an excellent interviewer and he has skewered a few people both left and right during some of his interviews.

Just because he is right of centre does not make him a twat!

I'll tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

When you interview a lawyer who is representing one of the accused rapists in the Maryland school rape case. The accused is an illegal immigrant. The accused has been arrested and is, per legal process - allowed legal representation.

Questioning then the morality, soul, and if-you-can-sleep-at-nightness of his lawyer - for suggesting that there are facts about the case that still need to be discovered and worked through (yes, the defence lawyer suggested that there are things we will learn about both defendants and the alleged victim) was as Jon Stewart put it - partisan hackery. Truly awful 'reporting' and designed solely to fuel the flames of ignorance in this country.

He's a twat. Nothing to do with his side of the aisle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2017, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 24, 2017, 03:28:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2017, 12:10:25 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2017, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
So actual proof of attempts to influence the election is finally uncovered. Outrage please liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/17/brazile-admits-forwarded-debate-questions-to-clinton-camp.html

I thought this was already established??

Besides, WTF do you care? It was an in-house Democratic affair, which purportedly harmed the ultra liberal in the race! ;)

Looks bad, shows corruption on her part (and I'm sure pissed CNN off!), but its overblown as f**k, in my opinion, in terms of actual effect on anything. If this is Brazile trying to influence a debate, she needs to try harder.

I mean, is anyone really suggesting that Clinton (or Sanders) would not armed with knowledge and an answer on the lead contamination in Flint in a debate taking place in Flint at the very time that the contamination was a leading national news story?

Or that ANYONE (even Trump!) running for president wouldn't have off by heart their answer on a death penalty question?

Seriously?

At least now it's on the record as fact. While I'll agree it was an in-house democrat affair it still shows that the democratic process was being bypassed due to certain elements trying to rig the vote by helping one side. THAT's rigging an election, not this russian bogeyman nonsense.
If the wikileaks information was false then I would accept that it influenced an election. But it wasn't.

Of course it influenced the election. Do you think its coincidental that only one side was targeted? Do you really believe that embarrassing revelations would not have come had they either hacked or released communications from the RNC?

And if the Russian stuff is such nonsense, why has the FBI been investigating it since last summer? (One wonders why Comey didn't see fit to release that little tibit of information right before the election?) Why did Spicer debase and humiliate himself even further on Trump's behalf by his pathetic attempt to downplay the role of Manafort in the campaign ("the campaign manager was only tangentially connected to the campaign" ;D ;D) and lie about the length of time he was involved? Why did Trump fire Flynn?

Probably because the kenyan lad was running the FBI at the time.

That makes a lot of sense. Explains why they were investigating Hillary and sabotaged her campaign a week before the election. ::)
Do you really think him and Hillary were friends?

No idea.

What does that have to do with anything?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2017, 07:39:11 PM
Quote from: stew on March 24, 2017, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on March 24, 2017, 04:10:02 AM
Who the f**k is this Tucker Carlson twat? Watch this space in the coming years for a new breed of Fox News fear mongering.

Tucker Carlson is an up and coming star on Fox news, he is an excellent interviewer and he has skewered a few people both left and right during some of his interviews.

Just because he is right of centre does not make him a twat!

Carslon's been bouncing around the cable news networks for 15 years, including debasing himself on the risible Fox and Friends.

But you are correct. Being conservative doesn't make him a twat.

Being a twat does though! ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2017, 07:43:49 PM
"Healthcare" bill pulled before the vote... again.

Is that it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2017, 07:48:30 PM
NYT fake news say 33 goppers will vote no with another 9 leaning towards no. Trump can only afford 22 to vote no

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/20/us/politics/health-care-whip-count.html

Robert Costa‏
@costareports
President Trump just called me. Still on phone.
"We just pulled it," he tells me.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 24, 2017, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2017, 07:43:49 PM
"Healthcare" bill pulled before the vote... again.

Is that it?

Always winning. Yeah right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2017, 08:12:04 PM
So will Trump and the GOP work with the Dems to fix the problems with Obamacare or will they continue to sabotage it for political reasons?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2017, 08:37:57 PM
The GOP owns healthcare now

and it's the interests of the base vs the Kochs

https://twitter.com/RepMcGovern/status/844991898850877443
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 24, 2017, 10:47:47 PM
Well oiled machine!!!

Are we giving him one more chance stew?? I'm beginning to lose count at this stage!  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 24, 2017, 11:08:41 PM
Obama gave the US Obamacare. Trump gave the US Don't Care.

17% of the US public support Don't Care, a net approval rating of - 39. 39% was the lowest approval rating Obamacare ever got.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 25, 2017, 02:36:14 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 24, 2017, 11:08:41 PM
Obama gave the US Obamacare. Trump gave the US Don't Care.

17% of the US public support Don't Care, a net approval rating of - 39. 39% was the lowest approval rating Obamacare ever got.

Who gives a damn what the approval rating is?

Obamacare Siddy was a complete and utter disaster, I admire Obama for trying to take care of the uninsured and impoverished, that said the rollout was a disgrace and it has went downhill from there.

Sid, do you think it is acceptable for people to live on the dole for decades in the United States of America?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 25, 2017, 03:13:11 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 24, 2017, 10:47:47 PM
Well oiled machine!!!

Are we giving him one more chance stew?? I'm beginning to lose count at this stage!  ;D  ;D

Really, you are illiterate sir!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Owen Brannigan on March 25, 2017, 09:26:49 AM
https://youtu.be/7EA_40Hj05I (https://youtu.be/7EA_40Hj05I)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2017, 11:17:21 AM
Quote from: stew on March 25, 2017, 02:36:14 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 24, 2017, 11:08:41 PM
Obama gave the US Obamacare. Trump gave the US Don't Care.

17% of the US public support Don't Care, a net approval rating of - 39. 39% was the lowest approval rating Obamacare ever got.

Who gives a damn what the approval rating is?

Obamacare Siddy was a complete and utter disaster, I admire Obama for trying to take care of the uninsured and impoverished, that said the rollout was a disgrace and it has went downhill from there.

Sid, do you think it is acceptable for people to live on the dole for decades in the United States of America?

It's hardly surprising that it hasn't worked as well as it could have given GOP obstruction, whether it was the refusal to expand Medicaid in numerous states to Trump's decision that the IRS will not be allowed to follow up or even ask about healthcare, thus eliminating the mandate and penalty. The whole idea is that young and healthy people buy in so that the risk and cost is pooled, instead of it just being sick or older people. The idea of compulsory coverage of certain services is that insurance is comprehensive and people don't end up in hospital only to be told "sorry, that illness you have isn't covered" or "you've exceeded your cap" " so get your house on the market or ring your bankruptcy lawyer" or " tough shit, you're on your own, we are not treating you".

The fact is that the GOP voted more than 50 times, en masse, to abolish Obamacare, all for political purposes. Now that their arses are actually on the line, they suddenly realize that there are real life consequences to their childish tantrums, and that their party doesn't have a f**king clue, after seven years of bullshit, and Trump's ludicrous promises of covering everyone with beautiful plans that cost so much less,  of how to address the many problems with US healthcare. Some of them like Ryan and Trump, think "access" is the key. Me and you have "access" to monthly holidays in the over the water bungalows of Bora Bora, or a nice fancy Bentley, but that doesn't mean we will ever be able to afford it. The Freedom Caucus don't give a f**k about anyone or anything except lower taxes and less government regs. The governors of Medicaid states and congress people from moderate areas actually get that people losing health coverage is a massive social problem which needs real solutions (at least they publicly get it, now that it's not just empty rhetoric).

But, instead of working with the Dems on improving things, what we are probably going to get now is continuing attempts to sabotage the status quo for political reasons with a view to 2018. I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 28, 2017, 09:22:28 PM
One reason the GOP is so hopeless now is because most of the moderates ("Republicans in name only") were purged by the tea party

https://newrepublic.com/article/141619/republicans-ruling-utter-incompetence
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 29, 2017, 09:26:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2017, 07:43:49 PM
"Healthcare" bill pulled before the vote... again.

Is that it?
GOP finally makes good on its 2009 promise to stymie the Presidents health care plan!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 31, 2017, 12:26:35 PM
The circus keeps rolling on . . . from 'lock her up' to 'I want immunity' in less than a year!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 12:58:32 PM
General Flynn ‏@GenFlynn 1 dec. 2016
We are going to win and win and win at everything we do. It is going to be tough, but Team Trump-Pence will #MAGA


CBS Evening News‏Compte  @CBSEveningNews 

Intel chairman says Russia hired more than 1000 hackers to create fake, anti-Clinton news in key states, won by Trump. @jeffpeguescbs, now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 31, 2017, 02:11:40 PM
I don't see much commentary on the fact that Flynn was consulting for the Turkish government - i.e was the agent of a foreign power - while acting as advisor on national security and foreign policy to the Trump campaign. To act for a foreign government without disclosing it and registering as a foreign agent is a criminal offence. All the time he was cheerleading the "lock her up" chants he was engaged in activity that should see him locked up. Is this the charge from which he's seeking immunity in return for testifying about the Russian connection?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2017, 02:27:28 PM
And it's rather ironic that Flynn is seeking immunity and Trump is cheering him doing it, after Flynn himself screaming last year that no one who is innocent of the crime of which they were suspected would seek immunity!

Which brings us back to Trump cheering his immunity plea - why the f**k would Flynn seek immunity and would his lawyers talk about the "story he has to tell" if there wasn't some dodgy shit there that he was afraid of being held accountable on and shit he had to offer on other people?

Perhaps Trump is counting on the FBI and Congress burying this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 12:58:32 PM
General Flynn ‏@GenFlynn 1 dec. 2016
We are going to win and win and win at everything we do. It is going to be tough, but Team Trump-Pence will #MAGA


CBS Evening News‏Compte  @CBSEveningNews 

Intel chairman says Russia hired more than 1000 hackers to create fake, anti-Clinton news in key states, won by Trump. @jeffpeguescbs, now

Which anti-clinton news was this? The emails released through wikileaks? These weren't fake.
She was exposed but for some reason democrats seem to think this isn't fair? Surely its a good thing that truth comes out about what a candidate is getting up to.

This is like watching a loser in the Eurovision song contest blame all the eastern bloc states for voting en masse even though their own song was shite and is still looking for a recount/disqualification months after the result. Sad.

Democrats are creating a horrible template for every future president and how opponents are going to deal with them when they get into power. Nothing will ever get done due to legal cases and protests. Congrats dumbasses.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 31, 2017, 03:11:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 12:58:32 PM
General Flynn ‏@GenFlynn 1 dec. 2016
We are going to win and win and win at everything we do. It is going to be tough, but Team Trump-Pence will #MAGA


CBS Evening News‏Compte  @CBSEveningNews 

Intel chairman says Russia hired more than 1000 hackers to create fake, anti-Clinton news in key states, won by Trump. @jeffpeguescbs, now

Which anti-clinton news was this? The emails released through wikileaks? These weren't fake.
She was exposed but for some reason democrats seem to think this isn't fair? Surely its a good thing that truth comes out about what a candidate is getting up to.

This is like watching a loser in the Eurovision song contest blame all the eastern bloc states for voting en masse even though their own song was shite and is still looking for a recount/disqualification months after the result. Sad.

Democrats are creating a horrible template for every future president and how opponents are going to deal with them when they get into power. Nothing will ever get done due to legal cases and protests. Congrats dumbasses.

Surely the Democrats nominate somebody capable of Governing rather than some half successful reality TV star?!!! The difficulties the Rs are having with Healthcare actually shows how capable a President Obama was. While Obamacare isn't perfect the reality is no system is perfect and nobody has come up with a better alternative that isn't going to buck 10% of the population off healthcare!

Strange how Anti-Trumpers have said for the past 2 years how it would be a disaster if Trump got in the Whitehouse and now it's come to fruition. The problem with voting in people who have no experience in Government or Politics is that when they have to operate in this realm they are not able to.

But y'know build the wall, lock her up, jobs, coal and f**k climate change so it's OK!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2017, 03:17:40 PM
Are you for real after the past eight years? Template me fuckin arse! ;D

And the issue is not the exposure, it's the one-sided exposure seemingly done in cahoots with Trump. Unless you're saying there were no skeletons in the GOP or Trump closet?

Although there's allegations this week that the Russians were interfering in favour of Trump against Cruz and Rubio as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2017, 04:03:24 PM
I  love the use of the word "interfering".   

Were The NY Times "interfering" when they edited a story mid morning to take out unfavorable opinion on Hillary after a call from the Hillary campaign.

Were CNN "interfering" when they leaked debate questions to Hillarys campaign?

(I think) CBS colluded with the Hillary campaign to devise some "gotcha" questions for an interview with Ted Cruz-was that "interfering"?

There's so much fvcking "interfering" going on,!unless the Russians actually hacked a polling machine it's all just white noise at this point
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2017, 04:21:43 PM
If there is nothing to see here whitey, why is a campaign heavyweight and cabinet member who was kicked out due to a scandal after THREE WEEKS seeking immunity from investigations being conducted by a government completely under the control of his own party?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2017, 04:24:30 PM
Maybe this is the perfect time for congress to review the 2010 Leinster final and award it to Louth.
Joe Sheridan was believed to be aided by Vladimir Putin in carrying the ball over the line for the winning score. Meath ran a dirty PR campaign and refused any investigation into alleged interference by Comrade Martin Sludden.

The Russian sphere of influence seems to be everywhere.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2017, 04:28:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2017, 04:21:43 PM
If there is nothing to see here whitey, why is a campaign heavyweight and cabinet member who was kicked out due to a scandal after THREE WEEKS seeking immunity from investigations being conducted by a government completely under the control of his own party?

Per Michael Smerconish "smart lawyering"

All of Hillarys aides got immunity too (oh and they were allowed to destroy their laptops as well)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 31, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2017, 04:03:24 PM
I  love the use of the word "interfering".   

Were The NY Times "interfering" when they edited a story mid morning to take out unfavorable opinion on Hillary after a call from the Hillary campaign.

Were CNN "interfering" when they leaked debate questions to Hillarys campaign?

(I think) CBS colluded with the Hillary campaign to devise some "gotcha" questions for an interview with Ted Cruz-was that "interfering"?

There's so much fvcking "interfering" going on,!unless the Russians actually hacked a polling machine it's all just white noise at this point

Yes, because editorial bias in the media is the same as infiltration by a foreign power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2017, 05:26:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 31, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2017, 04:03:24 PM
I  love the use of the word "interfering".   

Were The NY Times "interfering" when they edited a story mid morning to take out unfavorable opinion on Hillary after a call from the Hillary campaign.

Were CNN "interfering" when they leaked debate questions to Hillarys campaign?

(I think) CBS colluded with the Hillary campaign to devise some "gotcha" questions for an interview with Ted Cruz-was that "interfering"?

There's so much fvcking "interfering" going on,!unless the Russians actually hacked a polling machine it's all just white noise at this point

Yes, because editorial bias in the media is the same as infiltration by a foreign power.


End result is identical.....tipping the scale in favor of one candidate over another impafts favorable/unfavorable ratings and either helps or suppress turnout

Shoot, we even had Dan Rather break a story (completely false) about GW Bush less than a week before an election in an effort to torpedo his candidacy. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 05:27:08 PM
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article141562849.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2017, 05:38:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2017, 05:26:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 31, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2017, 04:03:24 PM
I  love the use of the word "interfering".   

Were The NY Times "interfering" when they edited a story mid morning to take out unfavorable opinion on Hillary after a call from the Hillary campaign.

Were CNN "interfering" when they leaked debate questions to Hillarys campaign?

(I think) CBS colluded with the Hillary campaign to devise some "gotcha" questions for an interview with Ted Cruz-was that "interfering"?

There's so much fvcking "interfering" going on,!unless the Russians actually hacked a polling machine it's all just white noise at this point

Yes, because editorial bias in the media is the same as infiltration by a foreign power.


End result is identical.....tipping the scale in favor of one candidate over another impafts favorable/unfavorable ratings and either helps or suppress turnout

Shoot, we even had Dan Rather break a story (completely false) about GW Bush less than a week before an election in an effort to torpedo his candidacy.

If by "less than week" you mean two months...

And what evidence is there that Rather was trying to torpedo Bush's campaign?

They got played with what they thought were legitimate documents and a massive story and rightfully paid the price.

Time have changed... Trump lies about everyone and anything every time he opens his mouth and the right wing doesn't bat an eyelid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2017, 05:45:49 PM
So what's the end result that democrats want? Remove Trump and install Hillary as president as she was cheated out of the presidency by Russia?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2017, 05:52:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2017, 05:45:49 PM
So what's the end result that democrats want? Remove Trump and install Hillary as president as she was cheated out of the presidency by Russia?

Maybe learn lessons so it doesn't happen again, whether to the parties themselves or a government agency?

Investigate any criminal wrongdoing that may have occurred?

The Democrats were targeted this time, but what's stopping the GOP being hit next time out?

Its just like Schumer needs to be very careful in considering whether to force the GOP to scrap the filibuster over Gorsuch. Next time out, with a more extremist judge, the filibuster might not be available. And McConnell has to consider things carefully too - they'll be in the Senate minority soon enough again.

Its always the other side's turn sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2017, 06:12:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2017, 05:52:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2017, 05:45:49 PM
So what's the end result that democrats want? Remove Trump and install Hillary as president as she was cheated out of the presidency by Russia?

Maybe learn lessons so it doesn't happen again, whether to the parties themselves or a government agency?

Investigate any criminal wrongdoing that may have occurred?

The Democrats were targeted this time, but what's stopping the GOP being hit next time out?

Its just like Schumer needs to be very careful in considering whether to force the GOP to scrap the filibuster over Gorsuch. Next time out, with a more extremist judge, the filibuster might not be available. And McConnell has to consider things carefully too - they'll be in the Senate minority soon enough again.

Its always the other side's turn sooner rather than later.

Politics is a dirty business and with a 2 party system both are always going to try to undermine the other. media and social media make it front and centre. At the end of the day as long as the actual voting itself isn't rigged then the results are valid. 

The new aspect of the general public on one side protesting the result is worrying. I don't see this trend going away now a precedent has been set. Even though the irish electorate may not agree with Enda Kenny being taoiseach we let him get on with the job and hopefully pull him up if he's wrong. Nothing will get done otherwise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 06:21:25 PM
Trump attacking the Freedom Caucus.  I thought we were supposed to get sick of winning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2017, 07:01:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2017, 05:38:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2017, 05:26:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 31, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2017, 04:03:24 PM
I  love the use of the word "interfering".   

Were The NY Times "interfering" when they edited a story mid morning to take out unfavorable opinion on Hillary after a call from the Hillary campaign.

Were CNN "interfering" when they leaked debate questions to Hillarys campaign?

(I think) CBS colluded with the Hillary campaign to devise some "gotcha" questions for an interview with Ted Cruz-was that "interfering"?

There's so much fvcking "interfering" going on,!unless the Russians actually hacked a polling machine it's all just white noise at this point

Yes, because editorial bias in the media is the same as infiltration by a foreign power.


End result is identical.....tipping the scale in favor of one candidate over another impafts favorable/unfavorable ratings and either helps or suppress turnout

Shoot, we even had Dan Rather break a story (completely false) about GW Bush less than a week before an election in an effort to torpedo his candidacy.

If by "less than week" you mean two months...

And what evidence is there that Rather was trying to torpedo Bush's campaign?

They got played with what they thought were legitimate documents and a massive story and rightfully paid the price.

Time have changed... Trump lies about everyone and anything every time he opens his mouth and the right wing doesn't bat an eyelid.

That's right.....it's was W's 25 year old DUI that was revealed by Democrats less than a week before the 2000 election......not the National Guard story
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 08:38:26 PM
PJ Rourke last year said
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhVintbafkU&index=11&list=PLJxnQXiytA_RubhYPXrPSnl1F9B1uC8u6

"Clinton is wrong about everything but she is wrong within normal parameters. With him, who knows ?"


David Fahrenthold‏@Fahrenthold Amazing work in the WaPo today: here's @ktumulty on why Trump, who benefited frm GOP schisms, is now hampered by 'em

I wonder when Foxy will join the dots

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 31, 2017, 08:51:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 06:21:25 PM
Trump attacking the Freedom Caucus.  I thought we were supposed to get sick of winning.
One can only presume he meant "whining". Easy to confuse the two words.

If you have the reading age of an eight year old, like Tiny Hands.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 08:58:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 31, 2017, 08:51:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 06:21:25 PM
Trump attacking the Freedom Caucus.  I thought we were supposed to get sick of winning.
One can only presume he meant "whining". Easy to confuse the two words.

If you have the reading age of an eight year old, like Tiny Hands.
He was going to cut through political stalemate by winning deals.
Why is he attacking the freedom caucus again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 31, 2017, 09:03:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 08:58:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 31, 2017, 08:51:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 31, 2017, 06:21:25 PM
Trump attacking the Freedom Caucus.  I thought we were supposed to get sick of winning.
One can only presume he meant "whining". Easy to confuse the two words.

If you have the reading age of an eight year old, like Tiny Hands.
He was going to cut through political stalemate by winning deals.
Why is he attacking the freedom caucus again?
Because he's an utterly useless dealmaker and completely out of his depth in politics.

This is what happens when having no experience is trumpeted as a virtue.

In this instance, it's lucky for the 24 million people he wants to deny healthcare to.

So ironically having no experience is a virtue in his case, but in the opposite way to what his supporters think.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 01, 2017, 06:04:55 AM
https://twitter.com/MikeDelMoro/status/847451006535434240
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 01, 2017, 06:21:34 PM
Brian Klaas‏  @brianklaas

Days before dropping to 35% approval rating:

Obama: Never
W Bush: 1,927
Clinton: Never
HW Bush: 1,278
Reagan: Never
Carter: 840
Trump: 68
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 01, 2017, 07:39:08 PM
The Hill‏ @thehill

Obama spokeswoman warns Spicer: Be careful not to permanently damage your credibility http://hill.cm/iKYi0Eh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 01, 2017, 10:38:06 PM
QuoteTweet Beat

• POTUS for some reason encouraged his former National Security Adviser to get an immunity deal from either the F.B.I. or Congress. He thinks it's necessary because he believes this is all a witch hunt. Of course, the only reason you get immunity is to flip on a bigger fish, so... good luck to all involved?
State Department

• Secretary Rex Tillerson spent five hours on the ground at the NATO foreign ministers' summit that they rescheduled because the Chinese president's visit conflicted with the original date. "No time for idle chit-chat," he said.
a.k.a., you know, diplomacy. Which is •kinda* your job.

• The budget cuts in the State Department the administration wants aren't going to materialize. "The president's budget goes in the waste basket as soon as it gets here," Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Bob Corker (R-TN), said during a Thursday hearing.
Jason Chaffetz

• In an interview with The Atlantic, the Chair of the House Oversight Committee brushed off concerns about the administration is turning into a kleptocracy:
"He's already rich," Chaffetz said. "He's very rich. I don't think that he ran for this office to line his pockets even more. I just don't see it like that. These other little intrigues about a wealthy family making money is a bit of a sideshow."

Yes, the ultra wealthy are completely known to self-regulate and say, "you know, I've got enough money." That's why our tax code has gotten more progressive as the wealth gap has ballooned over the last thirty years.

POTUS

• Declared April National Sexual Assault Awareness & Prevention Month.

APRIL FOOLS!

But no, really. He did.

• On Sept. 27 of last year said, "If you're not guilty of a crime, what do you need immunity for?"

• A McClatchy-Marist Poll reported Friday that about one in three registered voters say Trump deserves an 'F' grade for his job performance so far. Only 15% gave him an 'A'. Seventy per cent said his frequent use of Twitter was 'reckless and distracting.' Just 19 per cent called it 'effective and informative.'

• After his closing remarks at an executive order signing ceremony in the Oval Office, the president wandered out of the room without signing the executive orders. Vice-President Pence futilely tried to stop him as CBS' Major Garrett tried to get an answer about then went back to the desk to collect the folders and chase after him.

• Has realized that the chaos-and-loyalty theory of management he relied on in his boutique real estate shop does not work in the White House. And, as befits an elderly person who's gotten his own way his entire life and has never had to manage competing interest groups, he "feels baffled and paralyzed by how to fix it," according to numerous friends and advisers that talked to Axios.

"Come nightfall, Trump is often on the phone with billionaire, decades-long friends, commiserating and critiquing his own staff."

So ronery.

Mike Flynn

• Back on Sept. 30 he had his own opinion on immunity: "The only time you give somebody immunity is if they've committed a crime."

• Is currently 0-for-2 on immunity. The F.B.I. & Senate Select Intelligence Committee have both turned him down.
This is my fear – he has nothing. When he was quiet for a week, the thought was he was cutting a deal. But to come out publicly re: immunity AND to say no one was biting, that's not a good sign.

The U.N.

• Ambassador Nikki Haley delivered an ultimatum to the body – cut 1,500 troops from the 17,000-strong peacekeeping mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, or else the U.S. would withhold its support for a resolution extending the mandate the U.N.'s largest peacekeeping operation. Pulling them out would potentially have created a security vacuum in a country the U.N. is trying to stabilize ahead of presidential elections next year.
The Security Council called her bluff and got her down to a reduction of less than 370 troops. While still a modest cost savings for the U.S., which funds just over a quarter of the peacekeeping work, it's a far cry from the slash-and-burn the administration was demanding.

Department of Energy

• A supervisor at the international climate office told staff this week not to use the phrases "climate change," "emissions reduction" or "Paris Agreement" in written memos, briefings or other written communication.
Economy

• The Conference Board's Consumer Confidence gauge rose to a 125.6 in March, its highest level since December 2000.

The White House

• Began releasing the financial disclosure forms for Cabinet officials and top advisers. The disclosures were expected to reveal their financial portfolios before any divesting they were required to do by the ethics office. But we're not going to find out if they actually did do any divesting, because that is documented in the ethics agreements, and the "transparent" administration is claiming that they are internal documents and won't be released.

"To obtain the financial-disclosure reports, reporters were required to request the reports for the 180 staff members by name. The White House on Friday declined to provide a list of the names of its staff."

Their ethics pledges are so transparent, it's like they're not even there!

This has been Day 71 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2017, 02:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2017, 07:01:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2017, 05:38:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2017, 05:26:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 31, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2017, 04:03:24 PM
I  love the use of the word "interfering".   

Were The NY Times "interfering" when they edited a story mid morning to take out unfavorable opinion on Hillary after a call from the Hillary campaign.

Were CNN "interfering" when they leaked debate questions to Hillarys campaign?

(I think) CBS colluded with the Hillary campaign to devise some "gotcha" questions for an interview with Ted Cruz-was that "interfering"?

There's so much fvcking "interfering" going on,!unless the Russians actually hacked a polling machine it's all just white noise at this point

Yes, because editorial bias in the media is the same as infiltration by a foreign power.


End result is identical.....tipping the scale in favor of one candidate over another impafts favorable/unfavorable ratings and either helps or suppress turnout

Shoot, we even had Dan Rather break a story (completely false) about GW Bush less than a week before an election in an effort to torpedo his candidacy.

If by "less than week" you mean two months...

And what evidence is there that Rather was trying to torpedo Bush's campaign?

They got played with what they thought were legitimate documents and a massive story and rightfully paid the price.

Time have changed... Trump lies about everyone and anything every time he opens his mouth and the right wing doesn't bat an eyelid.

That's right.....it's was W's 25 year old DUI that was revealed by Democrats less than a week before the 2000 election......not the National Guard story

That's US politics for you... or was! That kind of dumb shit you did in your youth mattered in middle age, regardless of whether you were completely sober like W was. Remember Clinton's ludicrous "I didn't inhale" excuse!

Whereas now we have a man who likes to go up to strange women and "grab em by the pussy" and was rumoured, along with Clinton himself (hence why neither side would touch it in the campaign), to be a enthusiast of Jeffrey Epstein's underage girl pastime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2017, 05:01:14 AM
QuoteTweet Beat

• POTUS took a shot at NBC's Chuck Todd this morning – "Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd" for Friday night's analysis about the administration's PR & legal problems stemming from the wiretapp [sic] tweet. He demanded to know when Todd would focus on the "Obama SURVEILLANCE SCANDAL" (doesn't exist) and "stop with the fake Trump/Russia story."
Yes, fake. So fake that the FBI's been investigating it since July, when those crafty Democrats knew that they were going to lose in November so they wanted to invent something to undermine public confidence in the administration. They went to F.B.I. Director Comey and got him in on the plan, which also somehow involved coming out publicly to tank Clinton's chances two weeks before the election JUST TO MAKE SURE they could later embarrass you.

POTUS

• Yesterday met with the Prime Minister of Denmark, Lars Løkke Rasmussen.

• Also met with former National Security Adviser under George W. Bush, Condeleeza Rice, whom he called a "bitch" during his keynote address at the Learning Annex Real Estate & Wealth Expo in New York City in 2006. No one respects women more than him. Rice publicly called for Trump to drop out of the presidential race in early October.

The Spaghetti Flynncident

• In the financial disclosure forms released yesterday by the White House, former National Security Advisor Mike Flynn did not list the payments he received for a speech he made in Russia in 2015. A second, amended, form did list the companies that paid him, but only that the amount was "over $5000" when it was in fact $45,000.

West Wing Leak Wars

• Presidential son-in-law/senior advisor Jared Kushner is fairly resented among the staff in the White House. He's criticized for overextending himself on the various initiatives he's running, randomly walking into and out of meetings, and his uncanny ability to avoid blame or take credit as needed.
Among the hardline conservatives, Kushner's alliance with the Director of the National Economic Council Gary Cohn is of concern, as Cohn is a Democrat and is closer to Kushner's own moderate opinions.

He's constantly talked up as a wünderkind who's going to solve complex issues and revolutionize the government with his private sector experience, but ultimately he's a rich kid from a rich family who ran some real estate holdings and bought a newspaper as a vanity project before running the print edition into the ground. He's got zero background in government or any of the issues he's been tasked with and it's starting to show.

Nunes-a-Lago

• At the invitation of the White House, House Intelligence Cmte. ranking member Adam Schiff (D-CA) visited on Friday to review the information that chair & lap-dog Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) had brought to their attention. He later released a statement saying, "Nothing I could see today warranted a departure from the normal review procedures," and that they should be shared with the full committee. He also demanded that the White House answer why senior White House staff gave this information to one member of the committee and then had it briefed back to the White House.

A House of Ill Fame, A House of Loose Ethics

• The White House's social media director, Dan Scavino, tweeted "@justinamash is a big liability. #TrumpTrain, defeat him in primary," from his personal account on Saturday. Justin Amash, a Michigan Congressman and member of the Freedom Caucus, had been critical of the president in the last week. Richard Painter, GWB's ethics attorney immediately called for Scavino to be fired per the Hatch Act which forbids federal employees from engaging in campaigning.

• At an event on March 24, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin responded to a question about movie recommendations by encouraging people to "send your kids to see Lego Batman." A fine sentiment — except for the fact that he produced the film. Definitely not allowed. A Treasury spokesperson tried to claim that the secretary's endorsement was clearly not an endorsement because he had prefaced his remark by disclaiming that he wasn't allowed to endorse something he was involved in, but the Office of Governmental Ethics immediately jumped on this and fired off a letter to the White House. For his part, Mnuchin replied and frankly did sound contrite.

Reminder that the transition team rejected a course for senior White House staff, Cabinet nominees and other political appointees that would have provided training on leadership, ethics and management because it did not "accurately reflect the current needs of the Presidential Transition Team."
National Sexual Assault Awareness & Prevention Month

• Fox News has paid $13 million to settle four lawsuits since 2004 against star personality Bill O'Reilly for sexual harassment and one for verbally abusing a producer. Two of the settlements came after chair Roger Ailes was brought down by former anchor Gretchen Carlson's sexual harassment suit.

The U.S. Attorney's office in New York is investigating whether the network misled investors by not reporting these and other settlements, but hiding them as salary.

This has been Day 72 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2017, 10:25:12 AM
Trump is really pissed off by the Freedom Caucus . They wouldn't vote for Trumpcare because it didn't reduce healthcare costs and was a crock of shit. Trump hates anyone who shows him up as weak.

2 of the most vocal Freedom Caucusers are Amash and  Massie

https://twitter.com/justinamash
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie

Now Trump wants to unseat Amash
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/01/justin-amash-republican-challenge-freedom-caucus-trump-dan-scavino
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 02, 2017, 11:03:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 02, 2017, 10:25:12 AM
Trump is really pissed off by the Freedom Caucus . They wouldn't vote for Trumpcare because it didn't reduce healthcare costs and was a crock of shit. Trump hates anyone who shows him up as weak.

2 of the most vocal Freedom Caucusers are Amash and  Massie

https://twitter.com/justinamash
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie

Now Trump wants to unseat Amash
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/01/justin-amash-republican-challenge-freedom-caucus-trump-dan-scavino
Trump engaging in a Twitter war against Republicans has looked inevitable for a long time.

First he went to war with the truth.
Then he went to war with the Mexicans.
Then he went to war with the Muslims.
Then he went to war with women.
Then he went to war with the blacks.
Then he went to war with Rosie O'Donnell.
Then he went to war with the Jews.
Then he went to war with the media.
Then he went to war with Nordstrom.
Then he went to war with his allies.
Then he went to war with with his own party.

Then there was nobody left for him to go war against.

Well, maybe his own family. And you couldn't rule out that he might yet do that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2017, 12:55:59 PM
Trump is a narcissist. He hates anyone who goes for his weaknesses . The Freedom Caucus took the piss out of Trump care,  calling it Swamp care.  They accuse Trump of working with the Swamp rather than draining it. It is very interesting .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 03, 2017, 12:25:33 PM
Going after Hillary again today . . . obviously doesn't realise that he's the President now and should probably forget about the Election at this stage and do his job!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 04, 2017, 01:13:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 03, 2017, 12:25:33 PM
Going after Hillary again today . . . obviously doesn't realise that he's the President now and should probably forget about the Election at this stage and do his job!

Just watched the movie 13 hours, interesting take on what transpired in Benghazi, the non decisions made were staggering, Clinton has lots of blood on her hands.

In unrelated news, O'Reilly seems to be in serious trouble along with the Fox News Channel, sexual harassment and payoffs are apparently rife within the organization, I dont see how o'Reilly survives this  scandal, eventually it will bite him on the ass.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2017, 06:38:15 PM
Quote from: stew on April 04, 2017, 01:13:50 PM
Just watched the movie 13 hours, interesting take on what transpired in Benghazi, the non decisions made were staggering, Clinton has lots of blood on her hands.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b4/7b/d8/b47bd8d7368e8d260eab61e590563205.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2017, 06:39:13 PM
(https://cdn1.ijr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Poster_Terrorist-Attacks-Bush_Deaths-at-Embassy-Consulates_List_zps6c5a5a5e1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2017, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.
the Dems will walk the midterms given the civil war in the GOP

Justin Amash‏
@justinamash  Trump admin & Establishment have merged into #Trumpstablishment. Same old agenda: Attack conservatives, libertarians & independent thinkers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 08:09:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2017, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.
the Dems will walk the midterms given the civil war in the GOP

Justin Amash‏
@justinamash  Trump admin & Establishment have merged into #Trumpstablishment. Same old agenda: Attack conservatives, libertarians & independent thinkers.

What has any of that got to do with what I posted?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2017, 08:16:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 08:09:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2017, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.
the Dems will walk the midterms given the civil war in the GOP

Justin Amash‏
@justinamash  Trump admin & Establishment have merged into #Trumpstablishment. Same old agenda: Attack conservatives, libertarians & independent thinkers.

What has any of that got to do with what I posted?
Trump is 100% nonsense
So are his EOs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2017, 10:49:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Why would someone who wants to attack a US embassy travel to the United States, you intellectually bankrupt conservative? Do you know what an embassy is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 11:34:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2017, 10:49:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Why would someone who wants to attack a US embassy travel to the United States, you intellectually bankrupt conservative? Do you know what an embassy is?

Visit Disneyland of course.

In the mind of Democrats everyone shares their diet cokes with each other, gives hugs and sings Kumbaya.
Go over to Oakland and try it out in the ghetto ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on April 05, 2017, 01:17:17 AM
So Trump blames Obama for gas attack today. Pathetic. Well Donald now is in a position to do something now that Obama didn't do. I suspect that he'll do f**k all. That's because he can do f**k all, like Obama could do f**k all about it. He's the President ffs. He Blames Obama but he clearly has no intention of getting his hands dirty in Syria and God forbid, upsetting his Russian friends. Already a weak and damaged President. A bully that has already nothing to back up the bluster and posturing.
   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2017, 01:18:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Democrats are (rightfully) more concerned about the ease with which any half-wit with a twisted, perceived grievance against anyone can get their hands on a gun and the death toll which results than with the miniscule rate at which desperate people trying to escape a war zone turn into terrorists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 05, 2017, 01:55:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2017, 01:18:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Democrats are (rightfully) more concerned about the ease with which any half-wit with a twisted, perceived grievance against anyone can get their hands on a gun and the death toll which results than with the miniscule rate at which desperate people trying to escape a war zone turn into terrorists.

Would it not be prudent then to minimise your risk as much as possible. You cant kick out americans with guns (its in the constitution) but you CAN stop any further issues by stopping potential jihadists from entering the country.
Bullshit all you like but you have no idea how it will play out if you let them in. It's not worth taking the chance.
That goes for Europe also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 05, 2017, 02:16:05 AM
There is a reason it's called an amendment...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyroneman on April 05, 2017, 06:47:55 AM
So if Trump has called out Obama for being weak on Syria and the Whitehouse says it is pretty confident Assad is behind the recent atrocities....what does Donald do now....?

Does he risk upsetting Russia? Does he invade? Or does he do what the previous administration did....throw a little weight around, change very little and ultimately be roundly ignored in the long run by the Syrian authority?

At the minute it seems to be - blame Obama (Trump conveniently forgetting he publically came out himself against the US attacking Syria in 2013) and make excuses as to why they won't intervene.

Any mention of Syrian main supporter / ally Russia?...not much....



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2017, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 05, 2017, 01:55:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2017, 01:18:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Democrats are (rightfully) more concerned about the ease with which any half-wit with a twisted, perceived grievance against anyone can get their hands on a gun and the death toll which results than with the miniscule rate at which desperate people trying to escape a war zone turn into terrorists.

Would it not be prudent then to minimise your risk as much as possible. You cant kick out americans with guns (its in the constitution) but you CAN stop any further issues by stopping potential jihadists from entering the country.
Bullshit all you like but you have no idea how it will play out if you let them in. It's not worth taking the chance.
That goes for Europe also.

The fact that they're crossing into Europe via beaches and open borders while undergoing months and years of vetting prior to entry into the US is irrelevant?

Only one person talking out of their arse here...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2017, 12:03:11 PM
Quote from: moysider on April 05, 2017, 01:17:17 AM
So Trump blames Obama for gas attack today. Pathetic. Well Donald now is in a position to do something now that Obama didn't do. I suspect that he'll do f**k all. That's because he can do f**k all, like Obama could do f**k all about it. He's the President ffs. He Blames Obama but he clearly has no intention of getting his hands dirty in Syria and God forbid, upsetting his Russian friends. Already a weak and damaged President. A bully that has already nothing to back up the bluster and posturing.


Never mind that he's on record, on numerous occasions, telling Obama NOT to intervene and that Syria is NOT America's problem.

Is there a day passes where he DOESN'T lie and make shit up and contradict himself?

Disgusting human being, to use his own words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2017, 04:39:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 11:34:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2017, 10:49:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Why would someone who wants to attack a US embassy travel to the United States, you intellectually bankrupt conservative? Do you know what an embassy is?

Visit Disneyland of course.

In the mind of Democrats everyone shares their diet cokes with each other, gives hugs and sings Kumbaya.
Go over to Oakland and try it out in the ghetto ;)

There you go again. What is this obsession with my visits to Oakland?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2017, 04:40:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 05, 2017, 01:55:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2017, 01:18:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Democrats are (rightfully) more concerned about the ease with which any half-wit with a twisted, perceived grievance against anyone can get their hands on a gun and the death toll which results than with the miniscule rate at which desperate people trying to escape a war zone turn into terrorists.

Would it not be prudent then to minimise your risk as much as possible. You cant kick out americans with guns (its in the constitution) but you CAN stop any further issues by stopping potential jihadists from entering the country.
Bullshit all you like but you have no idea how it will play out if you let them in. It's not worth taking the chance.
That goes for Europe also.

Yeah. If only there was some sort of vetting process for refugees.

Oh wait, there already is and has been for a long time. Reality must be a confusing place for conservatives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 05, 2017, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2017, 04:40:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 05, 2017, 01:55:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2017, 01:18:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Democrats are (rightfully) more concerned about the ease with which any half-wit with a twisted, perceived grievance against anyone can get their hands on a gun and the death toll which results than with the miniscule rate at which desperate people trying to escape a war zone turn into terrorists.

Would it not be prudent then to minimise your risk as much as possible. You cant kick out americans with guns (its in the constitution) but you CAN stop any further issues by stopping potential jihadists from entering the country.
Bullshit all you like but you have no idea how it will play out if you let them in. It's not worth taking the chance.
That goes for Europe also.

Yeah. If only there was some sort of vetting process for refugees.


Oh wait, there already is and has been for a long time. Reality must be a confusing place for conservatives.

Not really, it just sucked and needs to be overhauled.

Here is your reality, the USA voted to f**k Obama and his liberal agenda, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama, how did that work out for you liberals fuckwits?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 05, 2017, 07:16:37 PM
As always, a well reasoned and enlightening response there Stew. The facts on the effectiveness of Refugee vetting would differ "bigly" with your statement and with regard to the election. It did turn out badly for the nation but don't worry California will still continue to subsidize Wisconsin despite the fact that our votes don't count for as much as yours ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 05, 2017, 07:34:40 PM
Bannon has been dropped from the national security council

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/donald-trump-removes-steve-bannon-national-security-council/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 05, 2017, 08:31:09 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8qCDUMUwAEmz2d?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2017, 09:38:00 PM
Quote from: stew on April 05, 2017, 06:39:45 PM

Not really, it just sucked and needs to be overhauled.

Au contraire (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/29/us/refugee-vetting-process.html?_r=0)

Quote
Here is your reality, the USA voted to f**k Obama and his liberal agenda, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama, how did that work out for you liberals fuckwits?

"America" voted for Hillary. The electoral college (aka affirmative action for rednecks) voted for Trump, the most clueless incompetent f***wit ever to set foot in DC.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2017, 11:03:20 PM
Quote from: stew on April 05, 2017, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2017, 04:40:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 05, 2017, 01:55:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2017, 01:18:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Democrats are (rightfully) more concerned about the ease with which any half-wit with a twisted, perceived grievance against anyone can get their hands on a gun and the death toll which results than with the miniscule rate at which desperate people trying to escape a war zone turn into terrorists.

Would it not be prudent then to minimise your risk as much as possible. You cant kick out americans with guns (its in the constitution) but you CAN stop any further issues by stopping potential jihadists from entering the country.
Bullshit all you like but you have no idea how it will play out if you let them in. It's not worth taking the chance.
That goes for Europe also.

Yeah. If only there was some sort of vetting process for refugees.


Oh wait, there already is and has been for a long time. Reality must be a confusing place for conservatives.

Not really, it just sucked and needs to be overhauled.

Here is your reality, the USA voted to f**k Obama and his liberal agenda, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama, how did that work out for you liberals fuckwits?

Why don't you educate us liberal fuckwits on how it sucked stew?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 06, 2017, 02:18:40 AM

"NATION DESPERATELY HOPES REAL REASON FOR BANNON'S EXIT WILL NOT INVOLVE SEX TAPE"
;D ;D
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/nation-desperately-hopes-real-reason-for-bannons-exit-will-not-involve-sex-tape?intcid=mod-latest (http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/nation-desperately-hopes-real-reason-for-bannons-exit-will-not-involve-sex-tape?intcid=mod-latest)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on April 06, 2017, 01:07:47 PM
Dan Carlin (of Hardcore History fame) is well worth a listen in regard to American politics. I've only recently started listening to his Common Sense series. His most recent podcasts are excellent.
Common Sense 314 – Unhealthy Numbers  (about the repeal of Obama care)
Common Sense 313 – Get Me A Glass of Water  (General shoot the breeze about the political situation/peril) 

http://www.dancarlin.com/product-category/common-sense-with-dan-carlin/current-common-sense/ (http://www.dancarlin.com/product-category/common-sense-with-dan-carlin/current-common-sense/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 06, 2017, 03:05:44 PM
Ding dong Nunes is gone!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM
Quote from: omochain on April 05, 2017, 07:16:37 PM
As always, a well reasoned and enlightening response there Stew. The facts on the effectiveness of Refugee vetting would differ "bigly" with your statement and with regard to the election. It did turn out badly for the nation but don't worry California will still continue to subsidize Wisconsin despite the fact that our votes don't count for as much as yours ???

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:34:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2017, 11:03:20 PM
Quote from: stew on April 05, 2017, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2017, 04:40:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 05, 2017, 01:55:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2017, 01:18:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 04, 2017, 07:58:54 PM
Democrats are protesting the Executive order which is trying to prevent such attackers coming to the US.

Bring them all over eh Eamon? There's a sanctuary city somewhere which will hide them and allow them to do whatever they want.

Democrats are (rightfully) more concerned about the ease with which any half-wit with a twisted, perceived grievance against anyone can get their hands on a gun and the death toll which results than with the miniscule rate at which desperate people trying to escape a war zone turn into terrorists.

Would it not be prudent then to minimise your risk as much as possible. You cant kick out americans with guns (its in the constitution) but you CAN stop any further issues by stopping potential jihadists from entering the country.
Bullshit all you like but you have no idea how it will play out if you let them in. It's not worth taking the chance.
That goes for Europe also.

Yeah. If only there was some sort of vetting process for refugees.


Oh wait, there already is and has been for a long time. Reality must be a confusing place for conservatives.

Not really, it just sucked and needs to be overhauled.

Here is your reality, the USA voted to f**k Obama and his liberal agenda, Clinton ran on four more years of Obama, how did that work out for you liberals fuckwits?

Why don't you educate us liberal fuckwits on how it sucked stew?

Let me count the ways, it was bogged down, so laden with reams of bureauocratic gibberish the so called experts couldnt explain it.
The rollout was an absolute disgrace, a liberal horror show that showed the ineptitude of the administration.
Obama lied and said you could keep your current doctors.
Peolle who could not afford it got fined for not having it.
It impacted small businesses and stifled their growth.
It got incredinly expendivd and provuders pulled kut of states because it was costing them millions.

Is that enough education for you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on April 06, 2017, 03:44:17 PM
The question was about the existing refugee vetting process, not the affordable care act.

Thanks for the fact laden education though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 06, 2017, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on April 06, 2017, 03:44:17 PM
The question was about the existing refugee vetting process, not the affordable care act.

Thanks for the fact laden education though.

Hilarious that he's giving out about how liberals couldn't roll out Obamacare yet the Republicans have had 7 years to craft their alternative and when they got the chance they couldn't even agree with themselves on it.

At least Obama got something done and while it's not perfect he deserves credit that so many people now have cover but then I imagine stews skin would burn should he ever give Obama some credit.

Trump's doing great though!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 06, 2017, 04:12:12 PM
Stephen Miller is one of the fruitcakes allied to Bannon in the WH .


Stephen
Miller ‏@StephenMillerAL 24
jul. 2016

"Let's make sure
the liberals not only lose in November, but that it takes a generation for them
to rebuild their party DNCleak#Gop"

This was very wishful. The GOP messed up Trumpcare which the Freedom Caucus, a Republican group, now call Swampcare. http://theresurgent.com/swampcare-the-great-betrayal/

There won't be any 1000 year GOP reich. They probably won't even make it past the mid terms.Bannon got lucky in the Presidential election just like Arron Banks fluked the Brexit vote. Governing is much harder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 06, 2017, 04:13:30 PM
Stew,
What was the alternative option to Obama Care?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 06, 2017, 04:26:13 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/04/20/where-evangelicals-came-from/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 06, 2017, 04:32:44 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 06, 2017, 04:13:30 PM
Stew,
What was the alternative option to Obama Care?
total reform of healthcare
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2009/07/02/the-health-reform-we-need-are-not-getting/

Neither my proposal, nor Emanuel's, nor Conyers's, nor any other plan that starts with the elimination of private employment-based insurance and depends largely on public funding stands much of a chance of being enacted now. It would be too great a change, and it would threaten insurance companies and other powerful vested interests that influence Congress. The same is true of any major reorganization of medical care that phases out fee-for-service practice in favor of nonprofit multispecialty groups of salaried physicians and dampens the commercial fire that has converted US medical care into an ever-expanding profit-seeking industry.
As bad as they already are, things will have to get still worse before major reform becomes politically possible. The legislation likely to emerge from this Congress will not control—and will probably even exacerbate—the inflation of costs. But sometime in the not-too- distant future, health expenditures will become intolerable and fundamental change will at last be accepted as the only way to avoid disaster. When that time arrives, the opportunity to enact real health reform will finally be at hand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 06, 2017, 05:14:40 PM
McConnell wrecks the Senate rules because he wouldn't confirm Garland for basically no reason... Dems had every right to fillibuster Gorsuch given the stupidity of what happened for the last year and a half!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on April 06, 2017, 05:15:46 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 05, 2017, 06:47:55 AM
So if Trump has called out Obama for being weak on Syria and the Whitehouse says it is pretty confident Assad is behind the recent atrocities....what does Donald do now....?

Does he risk upsetting Russia? Does he invade? Or does he do what the previous administration did....throw a little weight around, change very little and ultimately be roundly ignored in the long run by the Syrian authority?

At the minute it seems to be - blame Obama (Trump conveniently forgetting he publically came out himself against the US attacking Syria in 2013) and make excuses as to why they won't intervene.

Any mention of Syrian main supporter / ally Russia?...not much....
Maybe he'll wait until the hilarious faux-outrage of the UK, US and (wait for it) Israel disappears, the Russian resolution for an investigation is passed, an investigation takes place and no proof of a chemical attack is found. Then wait for the next bullshit story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

California is the world's 6th biggest economy. It has a balanced budget and has done for years. Amazing what you can do with a Democratic governor and Dems in both houses of the assembly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:34:18 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:34:20 PM

Let me count the ways, it was bogged down, so laden with reams of bureauocratic gibberish the so called experts couldnt explain it.
The rollout was an absolute disgrace, a liberal horror show that showed the ineptitude of the administration.
Obama lied and said you could keep your current doctors.
Peolle who could not afford it got fined for not having it.
It impacted small businesses and stifled their growth.
It got incredinly expendivd and provuders pulled kut of states because it was costing them millions.

Is that enough education for you?

(http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/1-ppp0dw-koqxiy_iobspg.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 06, 2017, 10:31:42 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM
Quote from: omochain on April 05, 2017, 07:16:37 PM
As always, a well reasoned and enlightening response there Stew. The facts on the effectiveness of Refugee vetting would differ "bigly" with your statement and with regard to the election. It did turn out badly for the nation but don't worry California will still continue to subsidize Wisconsin despite the fact that our votes don't count for as much as yours ???

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!


You seem to be unaware that despite their rhetoric,  Red States are the States that spend a disproportionate amount of the Federal Government's tax intake. Blue States contribute disproportionately. Ergo being good citizens of the Union and net tax contributors to the Feds, California is subsidizing Red States. To your credit, Wisconsin, just having flipped to Red is not the worst offender.

Incidentally, since we got rid of our Republican Governor and started taxing people who can afford it , you will note that we have got quite a large pot to piss in. ;)
Apparently taking money away from wealthy people and giving it to lads who will spent it, creates demand and jobs follow. Who would a figured!



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: omochain on April 06, 2017, 10:31:42 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM
Quote from: omochain on April 05, 2017, 07:16:37 PM
As always, a well reasoned and enlightening response there Stew. The facts on the effectiveness of Refugee vetting would differ "bigly" with your statement and with regard to the election. It did turn out badly for the nation but don't worry California will still continue to subsidize Wisconsin despite the fact that our votes don't count for as much as yours ???

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

You seem to be unaware that despite their rhetoric,  Red States are the States that spend a disproportionate amount of the Federal Government's tax intake. Blue States contribute disproportionately. Ergo being good citizens of the Union and net tax contributors to the Feds, California is subsidizing Red States. To your credit, Wisconsin, just having flipped to Red is not the worst offender.

Incidentally, since we got rid of our Republican Governor and started taxing people who can afford it , you will note that we have got quite a large pot to piss in. ;)
Apparently taking money away from wealthy people and giving it to lads who will spent it, creates demand and jobs follow. Who would a figured!




Stand by for Stew to give the standard Neocon response that tax cuts for the rich creates more jobs for everyone, despite there not being a single example of where this has ever happened.

(http://www.ukprogressive.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/lucy-football.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 07, 2017, 12:57:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: omochain on April 06, 2017, 10:31:42 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM
Quote from: omochain on April 05, 2017, 07:16:37 PM
As always, a well reasoned and enlightening response there Stew. The facts on the effectiveness of Refugee vetting would differ "bigly" with your statement and with regard to the election. It did turn out badly for the nation but don't worry California will still continue to subsidize Wisconsin despite the fact that our votes don't count for as much as yours ???

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

You seem to be unaware that despite their rhetoric,  Red States are the States that spend a disproportionate amount of the Federal Government's tax intake. Blue States contribute disproportionately. Ergo being good citizens of the Union and net tax contributors to the Feds, California is subsidizing Red States. To your credit, Wisconsin, just having flipped to Red is not the worst offender.

Incidentally, since we got rid of our Republican Governor and started taxing people who can afford it , you will note that we have got quite a large pot to piss in. ;)
Apparently taking money away from wealthy people and giving it to lads who will spent it, creates demand and jobs follow. Who would a figured!




Stand by for Stew to give the standard Neocon response that tax cuts for the rich creates more jobs for everyone, despite there not being a single example of where this has ever happened.

(http://www.ukprogressive.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/lucy-football.jpg)


You dont know me, I am all for taxing the rich, I am not some sort of clone that blindly follows a political doctrine no matter what!

Unlike the liberals on here, I am of the opinion every President does some things well, the uber liberals on here will give Trump for absolutely nothing should he serve eight years, he wont thankfully.

I am not a neocon nor have I ever been or ever will be one, I just loathe mealy mouthed liberals who throw the rattle out of the pram because their bitch didnt win an election they rigged for her, you know, people who want only laws they like and apologists for racist groups like BLM etc.

I would love to see the dole merchants in the states have to pass drug screening once a year, I was randomly drug tested 6 times in ten years with USC, why should the unemployed not get drug tested if a working person has to????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 07, 2017, 01:18:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

California is the world's 6th biggest economy. It has a balanced budget and has done for years. Amazing what you can do with a Democratic governor and Dems in both houses of the assembly.

Your hero president doubled the national debt in ten years ffs, it is amazing how democrats can f**k up the entire country when in power!

Corruption is rife at every level of your party and look at the state of Chicago, a liberal cess pit for many decades.

America more than ever needs bright people, in the centre from both sides of the aisle to come together and work for the good of the people, skanks like Pelosi and Clinton and fuckwits like Trump need to be moved on asap.

Time for change, Saunders offered it but thanks liberals, you fucked him for Clinton, how did that work out for ye? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2017, 01:26:04 AM
(http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/2016/02/blogs/graphic-detail/20160220_woc506_2.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 07, 2017, 03:15:53 AM
Trump just bombed Syria. Will it make the Assad regime stand down or make them more desperate. What will Putin do if he (Trump) has killed any Russians?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 07:32:17 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 06, 2017, 05:15:46 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 05, 2017, 06:47:55 AM
So if Trump has called out Obama for being weak on Syria and the Whitehouse says it is pretty confident Assad is behind the recent atrocities....what does Donald do now....?

Does he risk upsetting Russia? Does he invade? Or does he do what the previous administration did....throw a little weight around, change very little and ultimately be roundly ignored in the long run by the Syrian authority?

At the minute it seems to be - blame Obama (Trump conveniently forgetting he publically came out himself against the US attacking Syria in 2013) and make excuses as to why they won't intervene.

Any mention of Syrian main supporter / ally Russia?...not much....
Maybe he'll wait until the hilarious faux-outrage of the UK, US and (wait for it) Israel disappears, the Russian resolution for an investigation is passed, an investigation takes place and no proof of a chemical attack is found. Then wait for the next bullshit story.
Maybe he wont!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: manfromdelmonte on April 07, 2017, 07:55:16 AM
Didn't take him long to start firing missiles at people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: MoChara on April 07, 2017, 08:35:25 AM
The stage was set when they started to create the reports of Sarin gas attacks, now anyone with half a clue would know it would have been suicide for Assad to do it, hes winning the war and has the Rebels/ISIS/Al Nusra on the back foot.

If it wasn't for the fact it'd prob end the world I'd love Russian to give the yanks a bloody nose.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on April 07, 2017, 11:51:40 AM
So now we basically have the US alt-right Nazi party actively supporting Mid East dictators against their own govt?

https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/850208440899182592 (https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/850208440899182592)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on April 07, 2017, 12:10:34 PM
Quote from: MoChara on April 07, 2017, 08:35:25 AM
The stage was set when they started to create the reports of Sarin gas attacks, now anyone with half a clue would know it would have been suicide for Assad to do it, hes winning the war and has the Rebels/ISIS/Al Nusra on the back foot.

If it wasn't for the fact it'd prob end the world I'd love Russian to give the yanks a bloody nose.

+1
Amazing how few commentators are asking "what strategic incentive would Assads forces have to carry out a chemical weapons attack?"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on April 07, 2017, 12:22:38 PM
Mystifying why Assad would turn to chemical weapons at this point within the overall context of where the military and political environment has moved to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 12:32:32 PM
Quote from: Declan on April 07, 2017, 11:51:40 AM
So now we basically have the US alt-right Nazi party actively supporting Mid East dictators against their own govt?

https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/850208440899182592 (https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/850208440899182592)
I see most of Twitters "Alt-right" commentators (Prisonplanet, Hopkins, Milo, etc) are up in arms about it. "Coincidently" mirroring Russia's viewpoint.  I wonder did Bannon being taken out of the loop impact the decision.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: weareros on April 07, 2017, 12:39:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2017, 12:22:38 PM

Mystifying why Assad would turn to chemical weapons at this point within the overall context of where the military and environment has moved to.

Is it though? Has used them before. Has Russian support and all indications up to now is that Trump supported him, while Obama was never going to intervene. He would have thought no consequences. Now he knows Trump could bomb without a minutes notice, make that 30 mins notice as Russia were informed first.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 12:45:27 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 07, 2017, 12:39:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2017, 12:22:38 PM

Mystifying why Assad would turn to chemical weapons at this point within the overall context of where the military and environment has moved to.

Is it though? Has used them before. Has Russian support and all indications up to now is that Trump supported him, while Obama was never going to intervene. He would have thought no consequences. Now he knows Trump could bomb without a minutes notice, make that 30 mins notice as Russia were informed first.

You have only to look at the US decision to use the Atomic bomb in 1945 when an American win was inevitable in the Pacific and with Japan on the retreat. A "practical" decision that came down to further American troop deaths in a slow fight to the finish v Japanese civilian deaths and a quicker end to the war.
There may have been "practicalities", including previous utterance on non-intervention, which made Chemical weapons the preferred option.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 07, 2017, 01:00:20 PM
The so-called Alt-Right, Infowars and all the rest of them deserting Trump in droves, crying "false flag" (not before blaming it all on Hillary and Soros though ;D).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Kerry doing fvck all for the past 5 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:44:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 07, 2017, 01:00:20 PM
The so-called Alt-Right, Infowars and all the rest of them deserting Trump in droves, crying "false flag" (not before blaming it all on Hillary and Soros though ;D).
He did P155 off their paymaster. Vladimir not happy about it as he got no advance warning as Bannon was not in place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Hillary doing fvck all for the past 5 years
So his long list of tweets saying the US would not get involved wouldn't have emboldened Assad?
Maybe his unpredictability will turn out to be a strength in Foreign policy. The missile launches could be a message to Beijing to rein in North Korea as he may not ask their permission either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Hillary doing fvck all for the past 5 years
So his long list of tweets saying the US would not get involved wouldn't have emboldened Assad?
Maybe his unpredictability will turn out to be a strength in Foreign policy. The missile launches could be a message to Beijing to rein in North Korea as he may not ask their permission either.

That's quite a stretch.....since when does a tweet become official foreign policy?

Imho Obama's inaction on prior chemical weapons attacks is what emboldened him. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on April 07, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Hillary doing fvck all for the past 5 years
So his long list of tweets saying the US would not get involved wouldn't have emboldened Assad?
Maybe his unpredictability will turn out to be a strength in Foreign policy. The missile launches could be a message to Beijing to rein in North Korea as he may not ask their permission either.

That's quite a stretch.....since when does a tweet become official foreign policy?

Imho Obama's inaction on prior chemical weapons attacks is what emboldened him.
Which prior attacks? The ones in 2013 on the day the inspectors arrived?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 07, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Hillary doing fvck all for the past 5 years
So his long list of tweets saying the US would not get involved wouldn't have emboldened Assad?
Maybe his unpredictability will turn out to be a strength in Foreign policy. The missile launches could be a message to Beijing to rein in North Korea as he may not ask their permission either.

That's quite a stretch.....since when does a tweet become official foreign policy?

Imho Obama's inaction on prior chemical weapons attacks is what emboldened him.
Which prior attacks? The ones in 2013 on the day the inspectors arrived?

Yes... he stated that a chemical weapons attack was a red line, yet when Assad used them he did nothing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 07, 2017, 02:47:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 07, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Hillary doing fvck all for the past 5 years
So his long list of tweets saying the US would not get involved wouldn't have emboldened Assad?
Maybe his unpredictability will turn out to be a strength in Foreign policy. The missile launches could be a message to Beijing to rein in North Korea as he may not ask their permission either.

That's quite a stretch.....since when does a tweet become official foreign policy?

Imho Obama's inaction on prior chemical weapons attacks is what emboldened him.
Which prior attacks? The ones in 2013 on the day the inspectors arrived?

Yes... he stated that a chemical weapons attack was a red line, yet when Assad used them he did nothing

OK. I get it. Assad waited until Obama left office to be emboldened by Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 07, 2017, 02:51:40 PM
Funniest Sean Spicer sketch since that other funny one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RCcrt56tO0&t=7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RCcrt56tO0&t=7s)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on April 07, 2017, 03:07:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 07, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Hillary doing fvck all for the past 5 years
So his long list of tweets saying the US would not get involved wouldn't have emboldened Assad?
Maybe his unpredictability will turn out to be a strength in Foreign policy. The missile launches could be a message to Beijing to rein in North Korea as he may not ask their permission either.

That's quite a stretch.....since when does a tweet become official foreign policy?

Imho Obama's inaction on prior chemical weapons attacks is what emboldened him.
Which prior attacks? The ones in 2013 on the day the inspectors arrived?

Yes... he stated that a chemical weapons attack was a red line, yet when Assad used them he did nothing
I was questioning whether Assad had carried out any previous chemical attacks on the day the UN inspectors were arriving. Makes about as much sense as carrying out this week's one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on April 07, 2017, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 12:45:27 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 07, 2017, 12:39:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2017, 12:22:38 PM

Mystifying why Assad would turn to chemical weapons at this point within the overall context of where the military and environment has moved to.

Is it though? Has used them before. Has Russian support and all indications up to now is that Trump supported him, while Obama was never going to intervene. He would have thought no consequences. Now he knows Trump could bomb without a minutes notice, make that 30 mins notice as Russia were informed first.

You have only to look at the US decision to use the Atomic bomb in 1945 when an American win was inevitable in the Pacific and with Japan on the retreat. A "practical" decision that came down to further American troop deaths in a slow fight to the finish v Japanese civilian deaths and a quicker end to the war.
There may have been "practicalities", including previous utterance on non-intervention, which made Chemical weapons the preferred option.

I think most people would have done the same as Truman when presented with the same dilemma.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2017, 05:48:35 PM
The Russians may have lured Trump into a trap. He has no self discipline. He doesnt listen to anyone. He is easy to manipulate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 06:40:55 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on April 07, 2017, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 12:45:27 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 07, 2017, 12:39:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2017, 12:22:38 PM

Mystifying why Assad would turn to chemical weapons at this point within the overall context of where the military and environment has moved to.

Is it though? Has used them before. Has Russian support and all indications up to now is that Trump supported him, while Obama was never going to intervene. He would have thought no consequences. Now he knows Trump could bomb without a minutes notice, make that 30 mins notice as Russia were informed first.

You have only to look at the US decision to use the Atomic bomb in 1945 when an American win was inevitable in the Pacific and with Japan on the retreat. A "practical" decision that came down to further American troop deaths in a slow fight to the finish v Japanese civilian deaths and a quicker end to the war.
There may have been "practicalities", including previous utterance on non-intervention, which made Chemical weapons the preferred option.

I think most people would have done the same as Truman when presented with the same dilemma.
I am not disputing that nor saying he was wrong. I was making the point in relation to the assertion that Assad would not use chemical weapons just because he was winning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 03:13:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

California is the world's 6th biggest economy. It has a balanced budget and has done for years. Amazing what you can do with a Democratic governor and Dems in both houses of the assembly.
increasing the gas tax 43% should give Gerry plenty more money to waste
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 08, 2017, 04:06:14 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 07, 2017, 03:07:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 07, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Hillary doing fvck all for the past 5 years
So his long list of tweets saying the US would not get involved wouldn't have emboldened Assad?
Maybe his unpredictability will turn out to be a strength in Foreign policy. The missile launches could be a message to Beijing to rein in North Korea as he may not ask their permission either.

That's quite a stretch.....since when does a tweet become official foreign policy?

Imho Obama's inaction on prior chemical weapons attacks is what emboldened him.
Which prior attacks? The ones in 2013 on the day the inspectors arrived?

Yes... he stated that a chemical weapons attack was a red line, yet when Assad used them he did nothing
I was questioning whether Assad had carried out any previous chemical attacks on the day the UN inspectors were arriving. Makes about as much sense as carrying out this week's one.

What the hell are you talking about? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 03:13:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

California is the world's 6th biggest economy. It has a balanced budget and has done for years. Amazing what you can do with a Democratic governor and Dems in both houses of the assembly.
increasing the gas tax 43% should give Gerry plenty more money to waste

Can you get nothing right.. the Governor of California is Jerry and other than the High Speed Rail project, the state is spending within its means. But you pull most of your BS from where the sun don't shine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 08, 2017, 04:12:27 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 07, 2017, 02:47:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 07, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Hillary doing fvck all for the past 5 years
So his long list of tweets saying the US would not get involved wouldn't have emboldened Assad?
Maybe his unpredictability will turn out to be a strength in Foreign policy. The missile launches could be a message to Beijing to rein in North Korea as he may not ask their permission either.

That's quite a stretch.....since when does a tweet become official foreign policy?

Imho Obama's inaction on prior chemical weapons attacks is what emboldened him.
Which prior attacks? The ones in 2013 on the day the inspectors arrived?

Yes... he stated that a chemical weapons attack was a red line, yet when Assad used them he did nothing

OK. I get it. Assad waited until Obama left office to be emboldened by Obama.

Well given that  jug ears did fvck all about the first attack....yes that did embolden him.  But now he's dealing with Republicans who have no problem starting a war. Many of their supporters would have fvck all for doing if we weren't in a constant state of conflict
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 08, 2017, 04:14:03 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 03:13:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

California is the world's 6th biggest economy. It has a balanced budget and has done for years. Amazing what you can do with a Democratic governor and Dems in both houses of the assembly.
increasing the gas tax 43% should give Gerry plenty more money to waste

Can you get nothing right.. the Governor of California is Jerry and other than the High Speed Rail project, the state is spending within its means. But you pull most of your BS from where the sun don't shine.

Believe whatever you want

http://moorlach.cssrc.us/content/6-key-measures-californias-fiscal-health-2017-18Hi
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 08, 2017, 04:21:01 AM
Bannon is on a shaky scraw.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:29:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 08, 2017, 04:14:03 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 03:13:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

California is the world's 6th biggest economy. It has a balanced budget and has done for years. Amazing what you can do with a Democratic governor and Dems in both houses of the assembly.
increasing the gas tax 43% should give Gerry plenty more money to waste

Can you get nothing right.. the Governor of California is Jerry and other than the High Speed Rail project, the state is spending within its means. But you pull most of your BS from where the sun don't shine.

Believe whatever you want

http://moorlach.cssrc.us/content/6-key-measures-californias-fiscal-health-2017-18Hi

I was referring to GMac's comment about wasting money..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 04:49:07 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:29:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 08, 2017, 04:14:03 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 03:13:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

California is the world's 6th biggest economy. It has a balanced budget and has done for years. Amazing what you can do with a Democratic governor and Dems in both houses of the assembly.
increasing the gas tax 43% should give Gerry plenty more money to waste

Can you get nothing right.. the Governor of California is Jerry and other than the High Speed Rail project, the state is spending within its means. But you pull most of your BS from where the sun don't shine.

Believe whatever you want

http://moorlach.cssrc.us/content/6-key-measures-californias-fiscal-health-2017-18Hi

I was referring to GMac's comment about wasting money..
[/quoted 14% increase in registration coming too but trust in JERRY , the clowns couldn't get enough Prius and electric cars on the road and now the revenue has fallen so much they have to stick us with all these extra taxes . I don't care what moorlach or Jerry say but u can swallow whatever u want .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:58:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 04:49:07 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:29:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 08, 2017, 04:14:03 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 03:13:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

California is the world's 6th biggest economy. It has a balanced budget and has done for years. Amazing what you can do with a Democratic governor and Dems in both houses of the assembly.
increasing the gas tax 43% should give Gerry plenty more money to waste

Can you get nothing right.. the Governor of California is Jerry and other than the High Speed Rail project, the state is spending within its means. But you pull most of your BS from where the sun don't shine.

Believe whatever you want

http://moorlach.cssrc.us/content/6-key-measures-californias-fiscal-health-2017-18Hi

I was referring to GMac's comment about wasting money..
[/quoted 14% increase in registration coming too but trust in JERRY , the clowns couldn't get enough Prius and electric cars on the road and now the revenue has fallen so much they have to stick us with all these extra taxes . I don't care what moorlach or Jerry say but u can swallow whatever u want .

So increasing gas tax = the State of California is wasting money? You have way of never addressing the issue under discussion..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 05:05:15 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:58:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 04:49:07 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:29:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 08, 2017, 04:14:03 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 08, 2017, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2017, 03:13:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 06, 2017, 03:25:39 PM

Subdidise Wisconsin with what?

California does not have a pot to piss in!

California is the world's 6th biggest economy. It has a balanced budget and has done for years. Amazing what you can do with a Democratic governor and Dems in both houses of the assembly.
increasing the gas tax 43% should give Gerry plenty more money to waste

Can you get nothing right.. the Governor of California is Jerry and other than the High Speed Rail project, the state is spending within its means. But you pull most of your BS from where the sun don't shine.

Believe whatever you want

http://moorlach.cssrc.us/content/6-key-measures-californias-fiscal-health-2017-18Hi

I was referring to GMac's comment about wasting money..
[/quoted 14% increase in registration coming too but trust in JERRY , the clowns couldn't get enough Prius and electric cars on the road and now the revenue has fallen so much they have to stick us with all these extra taxes . I don't care what moorlach or Jerry say but u can swallow whatever u want .

So increasing gas tax = the State of California is wasting money? You have way of never addressing the issue under discussion..
calfornia will have 2 billion deficit this year and my point is it's a lot easier to balance a budget when you keep increasing taxes to do so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 08, 2017, 05:51:39 AM
Yes, Jerry has predicted a deficit for 2017 and he will make appropriate cuts and tax increases to fix it. That's called mature governance. One of his problems is, wages are not increasing at a pace that will generate sufficient tax revenues to balance the budget. I hope he will work on increasing taxes on the wealthy and put that into infrastructure development (roads, levies, bridges) that will lift wages for the construction workers and their increased spending will flood throughout the Californian economy lifting wages else where and increasing tax revenues across the board.
Now juxtaposition that against the no tax Republican way in Kansas and tell me who is getting the better outcome!!!
Increasing gas tax is not the progressive way to solve the issue but it is a practical way to generate revenue and get the population out of their gas guzzlers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 08, 2017, 06:28:53 AM
Bannon is on a shaky scraw.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 08, 2017, 12:08:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 08, 2017, 04:12:27 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 07, 2017, 02:47:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 07, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 07, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
There's was some knob on MSNBC this morning blaming Trump for "emboldening Assad". He indicated that's what led to the Aaron gas attack not Obama and Hillary doing fvck all for the past 5 years
So his long list of tweets saying the US would not get involved wouldn't have emboldened Assad?
Maybe his unpredictability will turn out to be a strength in Foreign policy. The missile launches could be a message to Beijing to rein in North Korea as he may not ask their permission either.

That's quite a stretch.....since when does a tweet become official foreign policy?

Imho Obama's inaction on prior chemical weapons attacks is what emboldened him.
Which prior attacks? The ones in 2013 on the day the inspectors arrived?

Yes... he stated that a chemical weapons attack was a red line, yet when Assad used them he did nothing

OK. I get it. Assad waited until Obama left office to be emboldened by Obama.

Well given that  jug ears did fvck all about the first attack....yes that did embolden him.  But now he's dealing with Republicans who have no problem starting a war. Many of their supporters would have fvck all for doing if we weren't in a constant state of conflict

Were yourself and your GOP representatives, senators and would-be presidential candidates urging Obama to launch attacks on Assad back then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DuffleKing on April 08, 2017, 08:41:22 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2017, 12:22:38 PM
Mystifying why Assad would turn to chemical weapons at this point within the overall context of where the military and political environment has moved to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LKsn4ZutxQ

For British ambassador to Syria probably knows a thing or two...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 08, 2017, 09:01:52 PM
I have doubted this gas attack was by Assad from the beginning especially when I saw pictures of the victims being hosed down with water in an attempt to help them.  Washing victims of sarin is not any use as it is a nerve gas which operates on skin contact both the the initial victim and then to anyone who comes to their aid.


Then today I came across an analysis which confirms my original suspicions but perhaps I am just wanting to be right......


ANALYSIS by retired Col.  Patrick LANG
Donald Trump's decision to launch cruise missile strikes on a Syrian Air Force Base was based on a lie.  In the coming days the American people will learn that the Intelligence Community knew that Syria did not drop a military chemical weapon on innocent civilians in Idlib. Here is what happened.The Russians briefed the United States on the proposed target. This is a process that started more than two months ago. There is a dedicated phone line that is being used to coordinate and deconflict (i.e., prevent US and Russian air assets from shooting at each other) the upcoming operation.

There are members of the U.S. military who were aware this strike would occur and it was recorded. There is a film record. At least the Defense Intelligence Agency knows that this was not a chemical weapon attack. In fact, Syrian military chemical weapons were destroyed with the help of Russia.
This is Gulf of Tonkin 2. How ironic. Donald Trump correctly castigated George W. Bush for launching an unprovoked, unjustified attack on Iraq in 2003. Now we have President Donald Trump doing the same damn thing. Worse in fact. Because the intelligence community had information showing that there was no chemical weapon launched by the Syrian Air Force.
Here's the good news. The Russians and Syrians were informed, or at least were aware, that the attack was coming. They were able to remove a large number of their assets. The base the United States hit was something of a backwater. Donald Trump gets to pretend that he is a tough guy. He is not. He is a fool.
This attack was violation of international law. Donald Trump authorized an unjustified attack on a sovereign country. What is even more disturbing is that people like Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, CIA Director Mike Pompeo and NSA Director General McMaster went along with this charade. Front line troops know the truth. These facts will eventually come out. Donald Trump will most likely not finish his term as President. He will be impeached, I believe, once Congress is presented with irrefutable proof that he ignored and rejected intelligence that did not support the myth that Syria attacked with chemical weapons.
It should also alarm American taxpayers that we launched $100 million dollars of missiles to blow up sand and camel shit. The Russians were aware that a strike was coming. I'm hoping that they and the Syrians withdrew their forces and aircraft from the base. Whatever hope I had that Donald Trump would be a new kind of President, that hope is extinguished. He is a child and a moron. He committed an act of war without justification. But the fault is not his alone. Those who sit atop the NSC, the DOD, the CIA, the Department of State should have resigned in protest. They did not. They are complicit in a war crime.


https://gosint.wordpress.com/2017/04/07/former-dia-colonel-us-strikes-on-a-syria-based-on-a-lie/ (https://gosint.wordpress.com/2017/04/07/former-dia-colonel-us-strikes-on-a-syria-based-on-a-lie/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2017, 01:03:09 AM
QuoteTweet Beat
• POTUS defended his fairly ineffectual airstrike (warplanes were taking off on more raids the next morning) by arguing with the air, tweeting out: "The reason you don't generally hit runways is that they are easy and inexpensive to quickly fix (fill in and top)!"

POTUS

• Went for his 15th round of golf. That prompted this angry tweet by the usually-obsequious Sean Hannity:

"Glad our arrogant Pres. is enjoying his taxpayer funded golf outing after announcing the US should take military action against Syria"

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, that's what he said in 2013 about President Obama.

• Proclaimed tomorrow, April 9, as National Former Prisoner of War Recognition Day.

"He's not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured." - July 18, 2015

"Many people that like what I said. You know after I said that, my poll numbers went up seven points."

Syria
• Senior defense officials said that the strikes in Syria were a deterrent against Assad's using chemical weapons, not to defend against a threat.
Which makes the legal justification of this, what, exactly? You can't just go bomb a nation for the hell of it, not matter how shitty they are.

DOJ
• A federal judge has approved the Baltimore Police consent decree, denying a DOJ request for delay based on Attorney General & noted racist Jeff Sessions' desire to review & likely overturn all of the local law enforcement oversight. Sessions tried to fear-monger a day ago, saying that the effort to overhaul the troubled Baltimore police force may result in "a less safe city."

The judge's decision read in part: "It would be extraordinary for the Court to permit one side to unilaterally amend an agreement already jointly reached and signed."

West Wing Leak Wars
• Chief ethno-nationalist & White House chief strategist Steve Bannon & Presidential son-in-law/senior advisor Jared Kushner were made to sit down at the Snowbird White House and figure out a way to work together.

• According to the Wall Street Journal's Eli Stoklos, this is a classic Trump move, encouraging aides to feud by playing on their insecurities, then making them show that they're not feuding. Last spring, Corey Lewandowski and Paul Manafort called his editor to dispute stories they were at odds. Trump had made them and was listening on speaker.

I'm sure this works out ok when you're running a small real estate shop and you have VPs fighting over territorial matters. There's absolutely no way that Bannon is going to compromise on his holy mission, and there's also no way that he'll manage to pull The Kush to the right. The ideological differences between them in microcosm and in the extreme to moderate wings of the GOP are simply nothing like the president has ever experienced before, and finding common ground from which to work from is going to be near-impossible in the medium-to-long-term.

• Chief of Staff Reince Priebus is also in danger of losing his job and the president has been sounding-boarding names of replacements within his personal circle.
Losing the Alt-Right

• The nationalist MAGA crowd is super-pissed about the Syria strike and have been abandoning their avatar on Twitter, in the media, and even in person.

• Junior ethno-nationalist & Senior Advisor to the President Stephen Miller is probably not taking calls from his Duke University rabble-rousing partner & America's favorite Nazi to punch Richard Spencer right now. Fascist McColdcocked was trying to lead a protest against the Syria strike, which he calls a "total betrayal" of the alt-right, outside the White House.

He was glitterbombed and chased through the street by antifascist activists.

This has been Day 79 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2017, 05:53:48 AM
Trump now saying the US won't get involved in Syria.  It will be a long 4 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2017, 06:09:26 AM
QuoteTweet Beat
• This Passover, the president unveiled his best Angel of Death impersonation by threatening to "solve" a North Korea which is "looking for trouble." "U.S.A."

• He also implied that he would retaliate economically against China if they did not fully support his efforts in the matter.
White House

• Chief ethno-nationalist & White House chief strategist Steve Bannon is toast. The president gave an interview to the NY Post where he averred that Bannon had any real influence on the race or that he even knew him.

"I like Steve, but you have to remember he was not involved in my campaign until very late. I had already beaten all the senators and all the governors, and I didn't know Steve. I'm my own strategist"

Blatantly untrue, you can find all the interviews they did together long before Bannon took over the campaign online. It fits with the president's self-delusion mythos though. He wasn't given a million dollars to start off with by his dad; it was a small loan. His dad didn't bail him out multiple times in the 1980s after his investments ran into the ground and he needed cash; it never happened. He wasn't the only person to fail at making money on Atlantic City casinos, he just got out before everyone else did. He hadn't known Paul Manafort for 30 years and ride the elevator in Trump Tower with him since 2006; he only was involved int the campaign for a little while. And now the man who got him elected is being kicked to the curb.

The Russia House

• The F.B.I. obtained a 90-day FISA warrant to monitor the communications of Carter Page, the Trump foreign policy adviser who traveled to Russia and was previously involved with Russian foreign intelligence agents. Applying for and receiving a FISA warrant means there is a basis for believing that Page was an agent of the Russian government. The warrant has been renewed multiple times since its original expiration date.

Syria
• Large adult son Eric told a British paper that his sister Ivanka had influenced their father to retaliate against the Syrians for the Khan Sheikhoun sarin attack, as she was "heartbroken & outraged."

She seemed far less outraged at all the times her father said that he would keep Syrians trying to get the hell away from gas attacks & barrel bombs out of the country, or when her other brother, Donny Jr., compared Syrian refugees to a poisonous bowl of Skittles.

Foreign Relations
• President Xi Jinping did not offer any public or private commitments from China on North Korea or trade last week at the Snowbird Summit. They have proposed a 100-day plan to address trade imbalances. This should avert an immediate trade war and is a modest accomplishment.
Actually delivering on this will be difficult I imagine, as there is no China-Asia strategy or team in place, and the clock is already ticking.

• Sabers are rattling in Eastern Asia as the U.S.S. Carl Vinson steams on. North Korea has threatened a nuclear response to any perceived U.S. provocations.

• Secretary Rex Tillerson's plane landed in Moscow under a cloud of smoke from a nearby garbage fire.

A little too on-the-nose?
• The administration released an intelligence assessment linking the sarin attack to Syrian forces and detailing Russian attempts to deflect criticism away from the Syrian regime.

• To wit: Russian President Vladimir Putin himself said that they had intelligence that the U.S. was planning on faking a chemical attack in the Damascus suburbs and blaming it on Assad.

• Russia warned the U.S. about conducting future missile strikes.

• Tillerson warned the Russians that they would be isolated with Syria, Iran, & North Korea if they did not abandon Assad and join with the West.

• Putin's office then announced that they were hosting the foreign ministers of Iran and Syria the day after Tillerson leaves.

Department of Justice
• Attorney General & noted racist Jeff Sessions visited the border between Mexico and Arizona today and whipped up the enthusiasm of the Border Patrol agents there saying, "This is a new era. This is the Trump era." He also announced a new immigration enforcement policy where all adults apprehended at the border are to be detained instead of the existing catch-and-release, and 125 new immigration judges will be hired to work on the case backlog. They also are instructing federal prosecutors to use far-harsher prosecution guidelines.

• The 138th annual White House Easter Egg Roll is scheduled for this Sunday – nominally. The White House is months behind schedule on planning the most high-profile event that is held at the executive mansion.

• In February, the wooden egg supplier was begging the entire First Family on Twitter to contact them as the order deadline was approaching.

• Washington, D.C. public schools usually are allocated 4,000 tickets for students to attend – they have heard nothing.

• 3,000 tickets for military families? Nope, according to the Military Partner Association.

• Congressional offices for tickets for their constituents? Nothing.

• If it gets pulled off, it's projected to be half as small as last year's (37,000 attendees) and with a fifth of the volunteers.

Spicey Meatball

• Said that Hitler wasn't as bad as Bashar al-Assad because he "didn't sink to using chemical weapons."

Happy Passover!
• When given a chance to clarify his remarks Spicey said that he didn't mean it like the people brought "into the, the, uhm... Holocaust centers," he just meant it like innocent people being killed by gas.

• The White House sent out four more clarifications after the end of the press briefing with varying wording.

• And then he called conservative megadonor casino magnate Sheldon Adelson's office to apologize.

Because howevermuch you apologize to the richest of my brothers and sisters you did it to all who were angered & offended.

The Hill
• Republican Ron Estes won Kansas 4th Congressional District's special election to replace Mike Pompeo (now that he is director of the CIA) by <7%. Pompeo won the seat by 31%. The president took the county by 27%.

The States
• North Carolina

• Still petulant after their gubernatorial defeat, the GOP-dominated state legislature is aiming to reduce the state Court of Appeals from 15 judges to 12 as vacancies arise so that Gov. Roy Cooper won't be able to fill them.

This has been Day 82 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on April 13, 2017, 08:16:34 AM
Trump does a U-turn on NATO

Get used to those words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2017, 06:03:24 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 13, 2017, 08:16:34 AM
Trump does a U-turn on NATO

Get used to those words.

2 Guardian headlines

Trump admits Nato no longer obsolete
Trump tones down China criticism

He makes it up as he goes along
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2017, 06:23:41 PM
On Twitter, US drops 'mother of all bombs' on ISIS target in Afghanistan!
Biggest non nuclear bomb around, apparently.

Let's hope there were no civilians there. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2017, 06:38:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Lb1c2WML8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2017, 10:18:45 PM
QuotePOTUS

• Two brain-melting interviews were published today, one with the Wall Street Journal, the other with Fox Business' Maria Bartiromo.
In the WSJ interview, the president reversed himself on the following positions:

• China's Currency

Then: The Chinese are "currency manipulators," artificially depressing their currency so as to keep positive trade balances.

Now: "They are not."

Thing is, he's right. The Chinese stopped keeping the yuan low six years ago and have been propping it up as their economy as slowed.

• Low Interest Rates

Then: Blasted the Federal Reserve forit. Said it was politically motivated and would lead to hyperinflation.

Now: "I do like a low interest-rate policy."

• Fed Chair Janet Yellen

Then: Replace her

Now: Open to reappointing her. "I like her, I respect her."

• Export-Import Bank

Then: It's unnecessary.

Now: Small companies are "really helped" by it.

This one's really going to ruffle feathers across the GOP as they've been trying to kill it off for a while. It makes loans to int'l businesses to promote US exports and was in the budget cuts leaked in February.

• Strength of the Dollar

Then: Calls National Security Adviser Mike Flynn at 3 AM to ask him if stronger or weaker is better.

Now: "Dollar is getting too strong, and partially that's my fault because people have confidence in me."

Fox News/Bartiromo
• The president blamed "obstructionist" Democrats for the understaffing of the government. On March 1 he told Fox & Friends that the over 500 empty positions requiring executive nominations were going to go unfilled "because they're unnecessary." Of 553 key positions requiring Senate confirmation, 478 so far have no nominee. As of Tuesday, only 22 nominees had been confirmed.

• Obliquely threatened FBI Director James Comey's job.

• Claimed Comey "saved Hillary Clinton" because "she was guilty on every charge." "Director Comey was very, very good to Hillary Clinton, that I can tell you. If he weren't, she would be, right now, going to trial."
What charges? She was never charged with a single thing.

• When asked if he'd then push for her prosecution, since he brought up Clinton and he's so convinced of her guilt, suddenly changed the subject: "No, I don't want to talk about that."

• Reversed course on dropping health care as he had said the week of the failed vote.
This is because if the savings from kicking millions off health care don't go through, then the massive tax cuts the GOP wants to make later this year will balloon the deficit and they won't be able to pass them with only 51 votes. But he won't say that. Probably because he doesn't understand Ryan's scheme.

• Claimed health care reform wasn't a failure and blasted the "fake news" for reporting that the effort failed by the deadline that he himself had set.

• Tied his infrastructure package to health care reform, because he has no idea about anything.

• Said definitively "we're not going into Syria." I thought he didn't like to telegraph his intentions or take options off the table?

• Castigated the Obama administration for doing exactly what he had said to do at the time — not attacking Syria in 2013 in retaliation for the gas attack that killed over 1,000 in Damascus.

• Was surprised that China couldn't just tell North Korea what to do. This was after he told China to tell North Korea what to do, and President Xi gave him a ten-minute lecture of the thousands of years of history between the Chinese and Koreans. "I realized it's not so easy. I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power" over North Korea. But it's not what you would think."

• Related a thoroughly amusing anecdote about the time he had dinner with President Xi.
"I was sitting at the table. We had finished dinner. We're now having dessert. And we had the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen and President Xi was enjoying it.

So what happens is I said we've just launched 59 missiles heading to Iraq and I wanted you to know this. And he was eating his cake. And he was silent."
Silent? Because he probably thought you were a f**king psychopath for bragging about this over cake.

This is what f**king BOND VILLAINS DO.

"Try the cherries, I had them flown in from Macedonia this morning. By the way, I've just killed half of Copenhagen."

Also, stop promoting your goddamn properties. And no one is impressed that you think you impressed the president of China.

• He additionally reversed course on NATO after meeting with the Secretary General. You know, that "obsolete" band of freeloading hippies over in Europe that he wanted to leave behind. Well now "they made a change and they do fight terrorism. It's no longer obsolete."

The one and only time that NATO invoked the Article Five common defense clause was after the U.S. was attacked in 2001. They've been fighting terrorism for a long time, and sure the families of soldiers from NATO member country that died in Afghanistan are happy to hear you shut the hell up about this.
Health Care Reform

• The president is attempting to use ACA subsidy payments as leverage on Democrats to come to the negotiating table. The government is set to pay out $7b to insurers to offset the medical bills of low-income customers. If the future of the payments are even in question, more insurers are going to drop out for 2018 which will damage more marketplaces and literally hurt — or kill — people. Even the Chamber of Commerce, which wants the ACA gone, does not want this line of attack followed.

If it's not clear to everyone yet let me spell this out. Despite his constant boasts to that effect, the president is not a negotiator. In order to have a negotiation you need to understand the issue, know your position and it's very helpful to have a grasp of your opponent's position. He has no negotiating skills. What he has is what he believes will most benefit him, and then the force of either his personality or a phalanx of lawyers to bury people who can't afford to oppose him. He is a bully, and one who doesn't care who he has to hurt in order to make himself look good.

• On Monday, Health & Human Services suggested to the New York Times that they'd be continuing the payments. On Tuesday they reversed course, ripped the Times and said no decision had been made. What happened? The president himself reamed Secretary Price and dictated a HHS statement blaming the Democrats for any and all problems.

State Department
• Turns out Secretary Rex Tillerson met with Russian President Vladimir Putin after all. But you won't see any photos because he ditched his press pool again.

• Carol Morello of the Washington Post was trying to get the Secretary to answer some questions about Russia & Syria at a photo op when she was slapped down by Sergei Lavrov, the Foreign Minister of a country where journalists are routinely imprisoned or murdered. "Who was bringing you up? Who was giving you your manners?" He demanded over the microphone. Sitting opposite him, Secretary Tillerson smirked.

The Sleepiest Cabinet Secretary
• Housing & Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson was trapped inside an elevator for 20 minutes this morning as he was touring the Courtside Family Apartments in Miami.

The administration's budget cuts repair funds for public housing by 32%. Tens of billions of dollars in backlogged repairs already plague the country's 1.2 million public housing units, according to a 2010 HUD report.

EPA
• Administrator Scott Pruitt has requested 24/7 armed protection. According to Myron Ebell, who led Trump's EPA transition team, Pruitt is at risk from his own employees—and "the left." This would necessitate hiring ten new security officers, doubling the size of the security staff.

The man who should be protecting the nation's natural resources and its citizens from environmental threats is actively dismantling those protections while demanding increased protection of his own personal safety. The irony is nauseating.

• Meanwhile, the EPA is proposing eliminating two programs that protect children from lead paint poisoning. In 2014 a CDC report found 243,000 children had blood lead levels above the danger threshold. But f**k 'em, right Scotty? One program certifies renovators who work in older buildings, and does education & outreach. That costs $2.56mm/yr. The other is $14.05mm/yr in grants to state & tribal programs to address lead-based paint issues. The EPA argues that states can do this work — and then eliminates the money they need to do the work.

The States
• North Carolina's going to need its own section soon. Legislators there are miffed over being cajoled into repealing HB2 (except it wasn't really a repeal, the new law does much the same stuff), in part by the ACC & NCAA's removal of any championship events from the state. A new bill filed this week would require that if the ACC ever boycotts the state again, UNC & NC State would be withdrawn from the conference.
Short-sighted, mean, & petty is pretty much par for the course for NC legislators at this point. Administrators from the schools were not contacted prior to the bill's filing. Had they been, I'm sure that they would have explained how the state and the schools have far more to lose under such a scheme than the ACC does.

Paul Manafort
• The former campaign chair and advisor to dictators around the world has been confirmed to have received $1.2mm in off-the-books payments in 2007 & 2009 from the regime of Ukrainian president & Putin puppet Viktor Yanukovich. The payments are listed in a ledger that surfaced last August, and Manafort called it a fabrication. Now he is acknowledging that he received payments directed through shell companies registered in Belize that match amounts in the ledger, but that it was all on the up-and-up.

This has been Day 83 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on April 14, 2017, 02:20:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2017, 06:23:41 PM
On Twitter, US drops 'mother of all bombs' on ISIS target in Afghanistan!
Biggest non nuclear bomb around, apparently.

Let's hope there were no civilians there.

Unfortunately the day is long gone worrying about civilians? 100 years ago in WW1 when there was some pretence of a 'soldier war'.

This bomb looks like something designed for purpose and has been on hold for years. Specific to be effective to generate a blast wave that will be devastating in caves. Compressed air in caves will .......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on April 14, 2017, 10:49:39 PM
On the brink of nuclear war. Good Friday so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 15, 2017, 12:33:49 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on April 14, 2017, 10:49:39 PM
On the brink of nuclear war. Good Friday so.

Will never happen, the Chinese will take this **** UN out before that happens.

Liberals are such drama queens, Obama shoukld have put manners on this **** years ago, come to think about it, Bush should have taken out his predecessor, this is a bipartisan clusterfuck.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2017, 06:58:56 AM
Quote from: stew on April 15, 2017, 12:33:49 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on April 14, 2017, 10:49:39 PM
On the brink of nuclear war. Good Friday so.

Will never happen, the Chinese will take this **** UN out before that happens.

Liberals are such drama queens, Obama shoukld have put manners on this **** years ago, come to think about it, Bush should have taken out his predecessor, this is a bipartisan clusterfuck.
Trump.is with the swamp. Nothing like bombs to distract people from political failure.

Syria is a Russian satellite. NK is a Chinese satellite. Why doesn't he bomb Saudi?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2017, 12:56:21 PM
Quote from: stew on April 15, 2017, 12:33:49 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on April 14, 2017, 10:49:39 PM
On the brink of nuclear war. Good Friday so.

Will never happen, the Chinese will take this **** UN out before that happens.

Liberals are such drama queens, Obama shoukld have put manners on this **** years ago, come to think about it, Bush should have taken out his predecessor, this is a bipartisan clusterfuck.

What should Obama and Bush have done?

Go in and take them out like they did with Saddam?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on April 15, 2017, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2017, 12:56:21 PM
Quote from: stew on April 15, 2017, 12:33:49 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on April 14, 2017, 10:49:39 PM
On the brink of nuclear war. Good Friday so.

Will never happen, the Chinese will take this **** UN out before that happens.

Liberals are such drama queens, Obama shoukld have put manners on this **** years ago, come to think about it, Bush should have taken out his predecessor, this is a bipartisan clusterfuck.

Look how well the removal of Colonel Gadaffi went in Libya

What should Obama and Bush have done?

Go in and take them out like they did with Saddam?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on April 16, 2017, 03:45:11 PM
Quote from: stew on April 15, 2017, 12:33:49 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on April 14, 2017, 10:49:39 PM
On the brink of nuclear war. Good Friday so.

Will never happen, the Chinese will take this **** UN out before that happens.

Liberals are such drama queens, Obama shoukld have put manners on this **** years ago, come to think about it, Bush should have taken out his predecessor, this is a bipartisan clusterfuck.

Loony.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 16, 2017, 09:01:40 PM
Kushner is Trump's son in law

https://twitter.com/sparksjls/status/853285559044890625
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 16, 2017, 10:42:51 PM
@realDonaldTrump  9 oct. 2012


Now that Obama's poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran.  He is desperate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 17, 2017, 02:28:04 AM
The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 17, 2017, 07:20:08 AM
"always" is a bit of a stretch for a country founded July 2nd 1776.
Yes it's July 2nd on purpose...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 17, 2017, 02:28:04 AM
The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2017, 02:38:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 17, 2017, 02:28:04 AM
The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say
Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on April 17, 2017, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2017, 02:38:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 17, 2017, 02:28:04 AM
The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say
Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 17, 2017, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 17, 2017, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2017, 02:38:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 17, 2017, 02:28:04 AM
The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say
Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

The yanks have done a lot of good in the world as well, dont forget that!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on April 17, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 17, 2017, 04:24:05 PM
I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

I liked the way the named Seattle after the chief of the local Indians who facilitated the original settlement and then a decade or two later they run all the indians, including the person after whom the city was named, out of town. Classy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 17, 2017, 07:43:19 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 17, 2017, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2017, 02:38:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 17, 2017, 02:28:04 AM
The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say
Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

And why single out the use of the nukes? What lasting damage did the toxins released by firebombing German and Japanese cities cause, in addition to the hundreds of thousands killed directly? And if you include that aspect of how the Allies conducted the war, then what alternative was there in response to the Axis brutality?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2017, 08:09:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 17, 2017, 07:43:19 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 17, 2017, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2017, 02:38:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 17, 2017, 02:28:04 AM
The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say
Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

And why single out the use of the nukes? What lasting damage did the toxins released by firebombing German and Japanese cities cause, in addition to the hundreds of thousands killed directly? And if you include that aspect of how the Allies conducted the war, then what alternative was there in response to the Axis brutality?
Fair point. The  war was insane imo. It was the death of the British Empire.
4.9 million Germans died for nothing.
Brutal wars always seem to happen at the end of an economic cycle controlled by the rich
We will be lucky to avoid one in the next decade
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2017, 08:10:35 PM
Very interesting analysis.

I am pretty sure Trump will end up shafting his voters
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/328935-the-memo-has-trump-gone-washington
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on April 17, 2017, 08:40:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 17, 2017, 04:24:05 PM
I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

I liked the way the named Seattle after the chief of the local Indians who facilitated the original settlement and then a decade or two later they run all the indians, including the person after whom the city was named, out of town. Classy.
Mount Rainier, formerly known as Tacoma, now named after some British General, just because....
One of the interesting thing about Washington State that I enjoyed was learning about all the indigenous people and seeing their tribe names still alive and well in the names of many towns.  There are still many reservations there and on the small islands of the coast of WA.

Our countries all played a part in their slaughter. But we're quick to blame the yanks... the yanks are all europeans - just settled in a different country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 17, 2017, 08:47:15 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 17, 2017, 08:40:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 17, 2017, 04:24:05 PM
I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

I liked the way the named Seattle after the chief of the local Indians who facilitated the original settlement and then a decade or two later they run all the indians, including the person after whom the city was named, out of town. Classy.
Mount Rainier, formerly known as Tacoma, now named after some British General, just because....
One of the interesting thing about Washington State that I enjoyed was learning about all the indigenous people and seeing their tribe names still alive and well in the names of many towns.  There are still many reservations there and on the small islands of the coast of WA.

Our countries all played a part in their slaughter. But we're quick to blame the yanks... the yanks are all europeans - just settled in a different country.

Sure wasnt it their own fault for isolating their genepool away from diseases like smallpox etc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2017, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 17, 2017, 08:47:15 PM
Sure wasnt it their own fault for isolating their genepool away from diseases like smallpox etc

I once saw a fascinating thing about how the isolation of the new world from the old was a massive ticking time-bomb as humans encircled the globe. By the time humanity got around to mass settling the Americas from the east, those who had settled from the west were doomed. Would have been interesting to see how history would have turned out if the native Americans had the stronger immune systems and the Europeans had the weaker ones.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 18, 2017, 04:33:08 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2017, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 17, 2017, 08:47:15 PM
Sure wasnt it their own fault for isolating their genepool away from diseases like smallpox etc

I once saw a fascinating thing about how the isolation of the new world from the old was a massive ticking time-bomb as humans encircled the globe. By the time humanity got around to mass settling the Americas from the east, those who had settled from the west were doomed. Would have been interesting to see how history would have turned out if the native Americans had the stronger immune systems and the Europeans had the weaker ones.

There was a couple of things against them, I think both where down to the topography

The Old World was populated by humans spreading out from the Fertile Cresent along similar latitudes. You have the same or similar biomes the whole way from Spain to China and so the practices and technologies that were developed in one area could be used in the next. This meant more movement of people among the civilisations and as a result a more thoroughly mixed gene pool, more exposure to more diseases and as result weak genes weeded out and immune systems strengthened. It also meant that more ideas were shared and technology developed faster, resulting in larger populations and the need to expand further, it became a "virtuous circle" in terms of civilisation advancement.

The New World on the other hand was colonised from North to South, so as the movement of people moved into new areas to exploit resources they were frequently moving into a new biome due to the change in latitude. As a civilisation emerged its practices and technologies were suited to that biome and if they moved to the North or South the environment would change and their agricultural methods (for example) would be ineffective. This in turn meant there was less movement of people and communication with other areas, so there was less exposure to diseases, less ideas shared, and less exploitation  of the natural resources, slower population growth and less need to even develop.

So really the civilisations of the New World didnt stand a chance of surviving against an expanding Old World, they were less advanced in terms of their biology, technology, society etc. BTW I dont mean to condescending when I say less advanced, but its just a fact, not their fault as such, alot of the civilisations just did not have the need to expand because their populations had everything they needed to survive. The civilisations that did advance like the Maya were constrained by topography and lack of communication with other advanced civilisations.

Putting the blame on the shoulders of European settlers is silly, its just basic anthropology at work and happened numerous times in both the Old New World before on smaller scales. Besides most Californians these days look like they have a fair bit of "Indigenous New World" blood in them, so its not like the people disappear, their cultures tho for the most part unfortunately did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 18, 2017, 05:30:01 AM

"The Old World was populated by humans spreading out from the Fertile Cresent along similar latitudes"

Did you ever read "Guns, Germs and Steel" it made similar points
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 18, 2017, 06:12:09 AM
Quote from: dec on April 18, 2017, 05:30:01 AM

"The Old World was populated by humans spreading out from the Fertile Cresent along similar latitudes"

Did you ever read "Guns, Germs and Steel" it made similar points

Naw but its the prevailing theory these days. Tho steel or iron is actually an interesting one that may actually buck the trend of the conventional wisdom that technology advances within a civilisation a little bit. It is thought to have started in central Africa unattached to any majorly historical significant civilisation and spread out from there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on April 18, 2017, 07:30:29 AM
So what exactly has North Korea done to make it the pariah of the free world?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on April 18, 2017, 08:00:54 AM
It doesn't lick the US's arse.
I see Kim Il Trump is congratulating Erdogan for winning a referendum to become another dictator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 08:40:04 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 18, 2017, 07:30:29 AM
So what exactly has North Korea done to make it the pariah of the free world?

It has an appalling record on human rights and forgot to apply to the United States for an exemption.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 09:36:36 AM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 08:40:04 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 18, 2017, 07:30:29 AM
So what exactly has North Korea done to make it the pariah of the free world?

It has an appalling record on human rights and forgot to apply to the United States for an exemption.

Well based on all the posts on here lately about the wars so do most countries!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 10:08:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2017, 02:38:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 17, 2017, 02:28:04 AM
The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say
Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

Your not even close! The nazis killed a lot more than Jews, we are talking about one campaign, had the Nazis won the war I'm sure that would have exceeded further...

The Balkan war not mention, the Russians many atrocities throughout a history longer than America would be a lot worse no? And not to mention The European involvement in Africa....

Vet suicides would be the same for most armies involved in conflict.... Have you exact numbers on all of this or do you just suit yourself with the quoting?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2017, 10:28:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 10:08:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2017, 02:38:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 17, 2017, 02:28:04 AM
The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say
Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

Your not even close! The nazis killed a lot more than Jews, we are talking about one campaign, had the Nazis won the war I'm sure that would have exceeded further...

The Balkan war not mention, the Russians many atrocities throughout a history longer than America would be a lot worse no? And not to mention The European involvement in Africa....

Vet suicides would be the same for most armies involved in conflict.... Have you exact numbers on all of this or do you just suit yourself with the quoting?

I think 19 million Soviets died so the Nazis would have been responsible for a lot of those. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2017, 10:34:13 AM
Wealth distribution in the US

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/557ef766ecad04fe50a257cd-960/screen%20shot%202015-06-15%20at%2011.28.56%20am.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAFSrKqIKdc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 18, 2017, 02:28:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2017, 08:00:54 AM
It doesn't lick the US's arse.
I see Kim Il Trump is congratulating Erdogan for winning a referendum to become another dictator.

Are you on drugs??? The ruling dictator and his family starve their own people and stick over 90% of their resources into the military, none of this has anything to do with the USA!

The Chinese need to cool Uns heels and I believe they will before they let him unload on the US, if he does attack the US he will, along with his country, be left with a hole in the ground, he has been trying to hit US soil for decades, well his and his thankfully dead predecessor!

You American haters are dipshits!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on April 18, 2017, 02:56:10 PM
Just back from a trip to Berlin, got to see a lot of memorials and museums. I wish people would stop using the Nazi comparison as function of numbers killed. Berliners and Germans in general see the Holocaust as the nadir of the human race because of the intent involved. So whilst you can be completely horrified by what took place in Rwanda, for example, and the intention of one tribe to wipe out another, in the context of the Rwandan Civil war, it is explainable. Horrific, but explainable.

What is not so easily explainable is the creation of an entire bureaucracy dedicated to the most efficient methods of removing a race from the globe. Carried out by middling civil servants, exactly the same as the people sitting across the train from you of a morning now.

In Sachsenhausen concentration camp, there are still the foundations of a room where over 13,000 Soviet POWs were taken, Jew and Gentile, told that they were receiving medical examinations and were then shot in the back of the head by a pistol inset into the exam chair. Classical music was played so as not to alert the next prisoner awaiting examination. There are and were suburban houses just outside the walls of the camp.

There is a concrete running track still there. Prisoners were used to test boots for the Wehrmacht. They were loaded with stones so as to approximate the weight of an infantryman's pack and given boots of every size. They were marched around and around that track for 8 hours each day. When they couldn't walk anymore they were shot.

And Sachsenhausen was not a death camp.

The Nazis, for their cruelty, efficiency and bizarrely scientific approach to murder remain the ne plus ultra of 20th century evil.

All that said, it doesn't remove our responsibility to watch for the signs that any regime are going the same way in our day and age. Which could happen in the United States as easily as it does anywhere else.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on April 18, 2017, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: stew on April 18, 2017, 02:28:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2017, 08:00:54 AM
It doesn't lick the US's arse.
I see Kim Il Trump is congratulating Erdogan for winning a referendum to become another dictator.

Are you on drugs??? The ruling dictator and his family starve their own people and stick over 90% of their resources into the military, none of this has anything to do with the USA!

The Chinese need to cool Uns heels and I believe they will before they let him unload on the US, if he does attack the US he will, along with his country, be left with a hole in the ground, he has been trying to hit US soil for decades, well his and his thankfully dead predecessor!

You American haters are dipshits!
Jasus but the Yanks certainly removed all you critical faculties especially that great Irish trait of seeing through bullshit.
Of course the Kims are a bunch of despots but so are the Saudis, Bahraini and many more allies of the US.
But that's OK.
The Yanks only problem with North Korea is that NK isn't an ally of the US.
And can you ever post without foul mouthing??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2017, 03:36:46 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 18, 2017, 02:56:10 PM
Just back from a trip to Berlin, got to see a lot of memorials and museums. I wish people would stop using the Nazi comparison as function of numbers killed. Berliners and Germans in general see the Holocaust as the nadir of the human race because of the intent involved. So whilst you can be completely horrified by what took place in Rwanda, for example, and the intention of one tribe to wipe out another, in the context of the Rwandan Civil war, it is explainable. Horrific, but explainable.

What is not so easily explainable is the creation of an entire bureaucracy dedicated to the most efficient methods of removing a race from the globe. Carried out by middling civil servants, exactly the same as the people sitting across the train from you of a morning now.

In Sachsenhausen concentration camp, there are still the foundations of a room where over 13,000 Soviet POWs were taken, Jew and Gentile, told that they were receiving medical examinations and were then shot in the back of the head by a pistol inset into the exam chair. Classical music was played so as not to alert the next prisoner awaiting examination. There are and were suburban houses just outside the walls of the camp.

There is a concrete running track still there. Prisoners were used to test boots for the Wehrmacht. They were loaded with stones so as to approximate the weight of an infantryman's pack and given boots of every size. They were marched around and around that track for 8 hours each day. When they couldn't walk anymore they were shot.

And Sachsenhausen was not a death camp.

The Nazis, for their cruelty, efficiency and bizarrely scientific approach to murder remain the ne plus ultra of 20th century evil.

All that said, it doesn't remove our responsibility to watch for the signs that any regime are going the same way in our day and age. Which could happen in the United States as easily as it does anywhere else.
Maybe the Nazis were more imaginative. Stalin was responsible for the deaths of millions in the 1930s. Famine isnt as groovy as classical music.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 18, 2017, 03:55:24 PM
Mass Killers
Mao and Stalin manage to surpass Hitler.
However Leopold of Belgium killed a lot with fewest resources.
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7cd0adce05880ad532898afa03aa5bda-c
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
So we are in agreement that the US isn't even close to the top ten of nations/dictatorships/movements that amassed millions of deaths?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 05:27:29 PM
Trump is quite clearly more dangerous than Kim Jong Un.

Since World War II the US has a proven record of starting wars, invading countries, launching coups and fomenting unrest around the world.

North Korea, not so much.

Also, only one country has used nuclear weapons.

Some people think Kim Jong Un might be unstable and attack another country, based on precious little evidence.

A lot less evidence than we have that Trump is unstable and will attack another country.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2017, 05:36:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
So we are in agreement that the US isn't even close to the top ten of nations/dictatorships/movements that amassed millions of deaths?
Who are the top 10?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 05:27:29 PM
Trump is quite clearly more dangerous than Kim Jong Un.

Since World War II the US has a proven record of starting wars, invading countries, launching coups and fomenting unrest around the world.

North Korea, not so much.

Also, only one country has used nuclear weapons.

Some people think Kim Jong Un might be unstable and attack another country, based on precious little evidence.

A lot less evidence than we have that Trump is unstable and will attack another country.

One country that's used it though it was an allied force I believe, plenty have the bomb though so for me any country is capable of using it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 05:44:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 18, 2017, 05:36:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
So we are in agreement that the US isn't even close to the top ten of nations/dictatorships/movements that amassed millions of deaths?
Who are the top 10?

I'd say the Romans must be up there! Egyptians be close then various Russian empire Tsars, then Mao, Japan must have done some damage also back in the day... then your invading Europeans and numerous wars throughout Europe before the Americans even became an armed country!!  It's fair to say there are not too many countries which haven't had a bit of blood letting...

To put all the ills of the world at americas door seems a bit daft
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
So we are in agreement that the US isn't even close to the top ten of nations/dictatorships/movements that amassed millions of deaths?

You can really only start counting since 1776 but the figures aren't good.

Genocide of Native Americans - quite an opening act for the land of the free.

Also, when you take into account ww2 Atomic weapons war crimes, proxies in Central and South America, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and on and on I'd say the US makes the top ten no problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 09:25:05 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
So we are in agreement that the US isn't even close to the top ten of nations/dictatorships/movements that amassed millions of deaths?

You can really only start counting since 1776 but the figures aren't good.

Genocide of Native Americans - quite an opening act for the land of the free.

Also, when you take into account ww2 Atomic weapons war crimes, proxies in Central and South America, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and on and on I'd say the US makes the top ten no problem.

Was it an allied war or did you just watch the American war movies??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
So we are in agreement that the US isn't even close to the top ten of nations/dictatorships/movements that amassed millions of deaths?

You can really only start counting since 1776 but the figures aren't good.

Genocide of Native Americans - quite an opening act for the land of the free.

Also, when you take into account ww2 Atomic weapons war crimes, proxies in Central and South America, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and on and on I'd say the US makes the top ten no problem.

Why start with the Americans?? Genocide was a European and Asian thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 10:21:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
So we are in agreement that the US isn't even close to the top ten of nations/dictatorships/movements that amassed millions of deaths?

You can really only start counting since 1776 but the figures aren't good.

Genocide of Native Americans - quite an opening act for the land of the free.

Also, when you take into account ww2 Atomic weapons war crimes, proxies in Central and South America, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and on and on I'd say the US makes the top ten no problem.

Why start with the Americans?? Genocide was a European and Asian thing

You asked if they make the top ten. I say they are in with a good shout.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 18, 2017, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2017, 03:17:26 PM

Jasus but the Yanks certainly removed all you critical faculties especially that great Irish trait of seeing through bullshit.


Oh really? And how useful was that trait during the bank bailout?
Then sit on your hands and do nothing about the bullshit you see. Par for the course on most topics.

Pat on the back all round. Well done.

The irish. So wise and clever. Great bunch of lads.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 10:26:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 09:25:05 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
So we are in agreement that the US isn't even close to the top ten of nations/dictatorships/movements that amassed millions of deaths?

You can really only start counting since 1776 but the figures aren't good.

Genocide of Native Americans - quite an opening act for the land of the free.

Also, when you take into account ww2 Atomic weapons war crimes, proxies in Central and South America, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and on and on I'd say the US makes the top ten no problem.

Was it an allied war or did you just watch the American war movies??

You were asking about the US. The crimes of Britain, France etc. are well known also.

Why do you use two question marks??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 05:27:29 PM
Trump is quite clearly more dangerous than Kim Jong Un.

Since World War II the US has a proven record of starting wars, invading countries, launching coups and fomenting unrest around the world.

North Korea, not so much.

Also, only one country has used nuclear weapons.

Some people think Kim Jong Un might be unstable and attack another country, based on precious little evidence.

A lot less evidence than we have that Trump is unstable and will attack another country.

One country that's used it though it was an allied force I believe, plenty have the bomb though so for me any country is capable of using it
You seem to be a bit confused here.

The only country to use nuclear weapons in war is the USA.

Not "an allied force", the USA alone. Twice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 10:56:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 05:27:29 PM
Trump is quite clearly more dangerous than Kim Jong Un.

Since World War II the US has a proven record of starting wars, invading countries, launching coups and fomenting unrest around the world.

North Korea, not so much.

Also, only one country has used nuclear weapons.

Some people think Kim Jong Un might be unstable and attack another country, based on precious little evidence.

A lot less evidence than we have that Trump is unstable and will attack another country.

One country that's used it though it was an allied force I believe, plenty have the bomb though so for me any country is capable of using it
You seem to be a bit confused here.

The only country to use nuclear weapons in war is the USA.

Not "an allied force", the USA alone. Twice.

Are you completely daft not to think Churchill and the rest didn't know??

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 11:02:54 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 10:26:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 09:25:05 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 18, 2017, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
So we are in agreement that the US isn't even close to the top ten of nations/dictatorships/movements that amassed millions of deaths?

You can really only start counting since 1776 but the figures aren't good.

Genocide of Native Americans - quite an opening act for the land of the free.

Also, when you take into account ww2 Atomic weapons war crimes, proxies in Central and South America, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and on and on I'd say the US makes the top ten no problem.

Was it an allied war or did you just watch the American war movies??

You were asking about the US. The crimes of Britain, France etc. are well known also.

Why do you use two question marks??

Seafoid brought in the yanks I'm saying that there was far more murderous countries/ regimes long before the yanks, but if you continue to be blinded by hatred of America then so be it, America has a lot to answer to but wise up..

Question marks ?? I could use two one or six, won't change anything ffs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 11:24:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 10:56:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 05:27:29 PM
Trump is quite clearly more dangerous than Kim Jong Un.

Since World War II the US has a proven record of starting wars, invading countries, launching coups and fomenting unrest around the world.

North Korea, not so much.

Also, only one country has used nuclear weapons.

Some people think Kim Jong Un might be unstable and attack another country, based on precious little evidence.

A lot less evidence than we have that Trump is unstable and will attack another country.

One country that's used it though it was an allied force I believe, plenty have the bomb though so for me any country is capable of using it
You seem to be a bit confused here.

The only country to use nuclear weapons in war is the USA.

Not "an allied force", the USA alone. Twice.

Are you completely daft not to think Churchill and the rest didn't know??
What anybody else knew is utterly irrelevant. The Soviets and the Brits had no hand, act or part in Hiroshima or Nagasaki. The US alone developed the bombs and used them as weapons and by the time the Brits and the Soviets were even informed of the bombs' existence, Truman had already made the decision that they would be dropped.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 11:27:12 PM
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/history/pre-cold-war/hiroshima-nagasaki/decision-opinion-churchill.htm
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 11:27:49 PM
You were saying?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Bazil Douglas on April 18, 2017, 11:48:27 PM

What anybody else knew is utterly irrelevant. The Soviets and the Brits had no hand, act or part in Hiroshima or Nagasaki. The US alone developed the bombs and used them as weapons and by the time the Brits and the Soviets were even informed of the bombs' existence, Truman had already made the decision that they would be dropped.
[/quote]

The two atomic bombs released on Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, were the result of an experiment called the Manhattan project, America,Britain,and Canada being the three countries involved, I believe.
Scientists from all three countries were on board a plane observing the results of their invention.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 11:50:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 11:27:49 PM
You were saying?
Nothing in your link, which refers to a meeting on July 17th, contradicts the fact.

Truman had already made the decision to drop the bombs before he arrived in Europe on July 15th to meet with Churchill and Stalin and before the bomb was even tested for the first time on July 16th.

He made this decision without any input from the British.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 11:58:47 PM
Nope you're wrong sid says he's got all the facts!

The Americans Brits and the rest have raped the world but to actually pick out one as being the worst is stupid, as said I'd struggle to put the USA (on their own) as being close to the some of atrocious acts carried out throughout history, though they are making up for lost time..



Did you say he knew nothing about it or had any hand in it?  They knew and were complicit in it... but sure as long as it fits your view then carry on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:06:35 AM
Moreover, we should not need the Russians. The end of the Japanese war no longer depended upon the pouring in of their armies for the final and perhaps protracted slaughter. We had no need to ask favours of them.... We seemed suddenly to have become possessed of a merciful abridgment of the slaughter in the East and a far happier prospect in Europe.... At any rate, there never was a moment's discussion as to whether the atomic bomb should be used or not....

The final decision now lay in the main with President Truman, who had the weapon; but I never doubted what it would be, nor have I ever doubted since that he was right. The historic fact remains, and must be judged in the after-time, that the decision whether or not to use the atomic bomb to compel the surrender of Japan was never even an issue. There was unanimous, automatic, unquestioned agreement around our table; nor did I ever hear the slightest suggestion that we should do otherwise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 19, 2017, 12:10:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 11:58:47 PM
Nope you're wrong sid says he's got all the facts!

The Americans Brits and the rest have raped the world but to actually pick out one as being the worst is stupid, as said I'd struggle to put the USA (on their own) as being close to the some of atrocious acts carried out throughout history, though they are making up for lost time..



Did you say he knew nothing about it or had any hand in it?  They knew and were complicit in it... but sure as long as it fits your view then carry on
What part of the bit about Truman having already made the decision to drop the bombs before telling Churchill do you not understand?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:19:34 AM
This was a joint decision that they all decided was the right thing at the time, in the main, the decision as churchill said was Trumans.. but as Churchill said no one would have decided against it..

It was an allied war.. you get that? They were all in agreement.. it ended a savage war, rightly or wrongly it stopped at least another million or so deaths.

Why are you not accepting there are far worse atrocities carried out by others? You hate the Americans so much to hide other mass murders?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 19, 2017, 12:28:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:19:34 AM
This was a joint decision that they all decided was the right thing at the time, in the main, the decision as churchill said was Trumans.. but as Churchill said no one would have decided against it..

It was an allied war.. you get that? They were all in agreement.. it ended a savage war, rightly or wrongly it stopped at least another million or so deaths.

Why are you not accepting there are far worse atrocities carried out by others? You hate the Americans so much to hide other mass murders?
As you now admit, the decision was Truman's. Thanks.

And it was going ahead regardless of what anybody else said.

I'm really not sure where you're going with the last bit of your post.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 19, 2017, 02:06:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 18, 2017, 05:27:29 PM
Trump is quite clearly more dangerous than Kim Jong Un.

Since World War II the US has a proven record of starting wars, invading countries, launching coups and fomenting unrest around the world.

North Korea, not so much.

Also, only one country has used nuclear weapons.

Some people think Kim Jong Un might be unstable and attack another country, based on precious little evidence.

A lot less evidence than we have that Trump is unstable and will attack another country.

One country that's used it though it was an allied force I believe, plenty have the bomb though so for me any country is capable of using it
You seem to be a bit confused here.

The only country to use nuclear weapons in war is the USA.

Not "an allied force", the USA alone. Twice.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:06:35 AM
Moreover, we should not need the Russians. The end of the Japanese war no longer depended upon the pouring in of their armies for the final and perhaps protracted slaughter. We had no need to ask favours of them.... We seemed suddenly to have become possessed of a merciful abridgment of the slaughter in the East and a far happier prospect in Europe.... At any rate, there never was a moment's discussion as to whether the atomic bomb should be used or not....

The final decision now lay in the main with President Truman, who had the weapon; but I never doubted what it would be, nor have I ever doubted since that he was right. The historic fact remains, and must be judged in the after-time, that the decision whether or not to use the atomic bomb to compel the surrender of Japan was never even an issue. There was unanimous, automatic, unquestioned agreement around our table; nor did I ever hear the slightest suggestion that we should do otherwise.

And to be even more specific, a liberal president dropped both hammers!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Arthur_Friend on April 19, 2017, 08:26:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

You think gassing someone is somehow worse than incinerating them or dying a slow from radiation poisoning?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 09:30:06 AM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 19, 2017, 08:26:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

You think gassing someone is somehow worse than incinerating them or dying a slow from radiation poisoning?

Where did i say that? I'm talking numbers, 6 million to lets say 200,000 odd (I'm being very generous) that died at the bombings....

I've constantly said that the Americans have carried out serious acts throughout their history, but the war was an allied one, the Great war before that (of which the Americans played a very small part of) was horrendous also... but you'll continue to single out the Yanks, i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Arthur_Friend on April 19, 2017, 10:33:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 09:30:06 AM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 19, 2017, 08:26:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

You think gassing someone is somehow worse than incinerating them or dying a slow from radiation poisoning?

Where did i say that? I'm talking numbers, 6 million to lets say 200,000 odd (I'm being very generous) that died at the bombings....

I've constantly said that the Americans have carried out serious acts throughout their history, but the war was an allied one, the Great war before that (of which the Americans played a very small part of) was horrendous also... but you'll continue to single out the Yanks, i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!!

I'll continue to single out the Yanks as long as I have to listen to their sickening hypocrisy every time I switch on the TV or Radio.

United States, Britain, France, Israel - all good guys who sometimes make 'mistakes'.

Russia, Syria, Iran - the forces of evil.

Complete Bullshit.

" i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!! " - that's just a daft comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 01:32:48 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 19, 2017, 10:33:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 09:30:06 AM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on April 19, 2017, 08:26:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

You think gassing someone is somehow worse than incinerating them or dying a slow from radiation poisoning?

Where did i say that? I'm talking numbers, 6 million to lets say 200,000 odd (I'm being very generous) that died at the bombings....

I've constantly said that the Americans have carried out serious acts throughout their history, but the war was an allied one, the Great war before that (of which the Americans played a very small part of) was horrendous also... but you'll continue to single out the Yanks, i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!!

I'll continue to single out the Yanks as long as I have to listen to their sickening hypocrisy every time I switch on the TV or Radio.

United States, Britain, France, Israel - all good guys who sometimes make 'mistakes'.

Russia, Syria, Iran - the forces of evil.

Complete Bullshit.

" i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!! " - that's just a daft comment.

So are you saying these countries have not carried out atrocities in the past? regardless of the media 'fake news' stories you dont have to go far into history to see how these countries have looked after their own.. You dont have to listen or watch the media, just make up your own version and that will be right
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2017, 05:24:46 PM
QuotePOTUS
• Spoke at a Snap-on Tools factory in Wisconsin to unleash his "Buy American, Hire American" initiative. Highlights:

• Called Speaker of the House Paul Ryan "Ron." Twice.

• Gave a shout-out to Rep. Sean Duffy for being a "world champion climber, climbs the trees" and that "every time I look at him I look at him differently."
You may also remember Sean from "The Real World: Boston".

• Returned the canard that NATO countries are "not paying their bills."
There are no NATO countries that are not paying their bills. Member nations agreed to increase defense spending to 2% of GDP by 2024. (Spoiler alert: It's not currently 2024.)

• Called the World Trade Organization "another one of our failures."

• Claimed that no administration in history had accomplished so much in 90 days.
No major legislation passed, including a collapse of his repeal & replace the ACA pledge; the vast majority of appointments that still need to be made; a stack of executive orders that were more suited to be memos; two travel bans kneecapped; taking credit for business investments announced up to three years prior... But sure, accomplishments. I mean, maybe you're counting hiring two National Security Advisers in the first 90 days? That's certainly historic.

• Raised a record $107 million for his inauguration from corporate & wealthy donors, more than double the previous record set by Obama. Inaugural committees are not required to report how they spend the money and would not say how much was left.

• 45% of Americans believe the president does not keep his promises, according to Gallup. That's a 17-point slide since February. -11 points among Republicans and -9 points among conservatives.

Executive Branch
• The White House Press Office circulated a list of quotes of nice things that the president's Cabinet & senior advisors said about him.
Shadow Advisers

• Despite official protestations that founder of controversial private paramilitary contractor firm Blackwater & brother of Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, Eric Prince, had no role in the transition, several meetings with the transition team have been documented.

Prince would enter Trump Tower by a rear entrance to avoid the media camped out at the elevator bank. He met several times with former National Security Adviser Mike Flynn to discuss appointees. One meeting with Kellyanne Conway and National Security Council member Kevin Harrington on an Acela train from New York City to Washington, D.C.

Tax Reform
• Democrats are pledging not to cooperate on any rewriting of the tax code unless they know specifically how that revision would benefit the billionaire president and his family, i.e. he releases his tax returns.
Family Business

• The same day that daughter Ivanka & presidential son-in-law/senior advisor Jared Kushner sat next to Chinese President Xi and his wife for dinner at Mar-a-Lago, her company won provisional approval from the Chinese government for three new trademarks, giving it monopoly rights to sell Ivanka brand jewelry, bags and spa services in the world's second-largest economy. Ivanka Trump Marks LLC has 32 pending applications in China and applied for at least nine new trademarks in the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Canada and the U.S. after the election.

North Korea
• In statements in Seoul, South Korea, Vice President Mike Pence warned North Korea to "not to test [the president's] resolve or the strength of the armed forces of the United States" and offered the strikes on Syria & Afghanistan as proof.
Low-risk, low-cost actions, one of which was in a country we've been at war in for 16 years, are not "resolve". Seems like pretty low-hanging fruit, honestly, and hardly in the same league as threatening to tear up a 60-year-old armistice, putting tens of millions of South Korean lives on the line, and risking war with China.

• While "a person familiar with the White House's thinking" said that the president prefers to let China take the lead on dealing with North Korea, he is considering "kinetic action" options.

• Last week the White House announced that it had ordered the U.S.S. Carl Vinson's carrier strike group to the Sea of Japan to send a message to the North Koreans. Spicey Meatball & Secretary of Defense James Mattis gave the impression that the fleet was racing at flanks speed to the regional waters. "We're sending an armada," the president said, inflaming fears in South Korea of imminent hostilities.

In actuality the three ships were 3000 miles away, steaming in the opposite direction to rendezvous with Australian naval units. How did we find out? Because the Navy posted a photo of it passing the island of Java, facing the wrong direction.

The Vinson is now proceeding north.

Russia
• Two Russian Tu-95 Bear long-range bombers flew within 100 miles of Kodiak Island off the coast of Alaska, prompting F-22s to scramble from Elmendorf Air Force Base to intercept. The last Russian incursion of U.S. airspace was in July of 2015.
Homeland Security

• Secretary John Kelly said that congressional critics of the department should "shut up" and assume that agents are following the law, or change the laws.

• On April 11, a federal civil rights complaint was filed claiming that, out of 33,126 complaints of sexual and physical abuse in immigration detention, only 570 cases have been DHS's Office of the Inspector General, the agency's oversight office.

Department of Justice
• A month after firing all of the U.S. Attorneys, the department has no new chief prosecutors in place, hampering the crackdown regime that Attorney General & noted racist Jeff Sessions wants to implement.

Executive Orders
• The president is going to make it harder for technology companies to recruit low-wage workers from foreign countries by cracking down on H1-B visas.
Some experts warn that this could increase offshoring efforts by tech companies instead of spurring them to hire American workers.

• The order does not affect H-2A/B visas that companies owned by the family rely heavily on.

• Since the election, NBC tracked 56 shipments of Ivanka Trump products from China & Singapore out of 215 from Asia overall. The president's clothing line was manufactured in China as well.

• Also, all federal agencies will be directed to adhere to "Buy American" rules, giving the highest priority to American companies when making purchasing decisions.

Hm. I'm old enough to remember when it was impossible to create jobs via government spending.

Spicey Meatball
• Had a new argument for why they weren't releasing the White House visitor logs. Before it was saving money & national security. Now he's saying that if members of congress don't have to disclose who they meet with, neither does the White House.

Swamp Thing
• Senior White House budget adviser Marcus Peacock has departed the Office of Management and Budget to join Business Roundtable, a high-profile business lobby group in Washington. He will lead policy work on the group's key issues related to the administration's agenda, including tax legislation, infrastructure spending and regulatory reform.

The president made a very large show of the ethics pledge requiring executive branch employees to refrain from lobbying the office they worked in for five years after leaving government. Peacock was given a waiver and has "promised" to not lobby the OMB for six months.

Immigration Enforcement
• Despite the president's promise to not deport people covered under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, Juan Manuel Montes, 23, was grabbed by Customs & Border Patrol agents on Feb. 17 and found himself back in Mexico three hours later. He has lived in the U.S. since the age of 9.
"They shouldn't be very worried," he told ABC News in January. "I do have a big heart."

There are currently at least 10 other DACA enrollees currently in federal custody.

Media

• Fox is preparing to dump Bill O'Reilly in the wake of the raft of sexual harassment suits that came to light last month.
MOABI (Mother Of All Bad Ideas)

• Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) filed a bill that would allow former presidents & & vice presidents, in coordination with the sitting VP, to determine if a president is fit for office.
The States

• As of this point, John Ossoff has come in first by a wide margin in the special election to fill HHS Secretary Tom Price's seat in the Georgia 6th. But at 48.6%, all that gets him is a runoff against a candidate that the whole of the GOP is behind instead of a severely fragmented field.

• Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker had a hat made up for the president to honor the Milwaukee Bucks' return to the playoffs. Naturally & unimaginatively it says, "Make the Bucks Great Again."

Giannis Antetokounmpo grew up an undocumented immigrant from Nigeria in Greece; Thon Maker is a refugee from Sudan, which is on the travel ban list; and the team refuses to stay at Trump hotels.

Fittingly perhaps, the only Bucks championship came in 1971, which is roughly the time frame the president wishes to return the country to.

This has been Day 89 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on April 19, 2017, 06:26:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2017, 05:24:46 PM
QuotePOTUS
• Spoke at a Snap-on Tools factory in Wisconsin to unleash his "Buy American, Hire American" initiative. Highlights:

• Called Speaker of the House Paul Ryan "Ron." Twice.

• Gave a shout-out to Rep. Sean Duffy for being a "world champion climber, climbs the trees" and that "every time I look at him I look at him differently."
You may also remember Sean from "The Real World: Boston".

• Returned the canard that NATO countries are "not paying their bills."
There are no NATO countries that are not paying their bills. Member nations agreed to increase defense spending to 2% of GDP by 2024. (Spoiler alert: It's not currently 2024.)

• Called the World Trade Organization "another one of our failures."

• Claimed that no administration in history had accomplished so much in 90 days.
No major legislation passed, including a collapse of his repeal & replace the ACA pledge; the vast majority of appointments that still need to be made; a stack of executive orders that were more suited to be memos; two travel bans kneecapped; taking credit for business investments announced up to three years prior... But sure, accomplishments. I mean, maybe you're counting hiring two National Security Advisers in the first 90 days? That's certainly historic.

• Raised a record $107 million for his inauguration from corporate & wealthy donors, more than double the previous record set by Obama. Inaugural committees are not required to report how they spend the money and would not say how much was left.

• 45% of Americans believe the president does not keep his promises, according to Gallup. That's a 17-point slide since February. -11 points among Republicans and -9 points among conservatives.

Executive Branch
• The White House Press Office circulated a list of quotes of nice things that the president's Cabinet & senior advisors said about him.
Shadow Advisers

• Despite official protestations that founder of controversial private paramilitary contractor firm Blackwater & brother of Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, Eric Prince, had no role in the transition, several meetings with the transition team have been documented.

Prince would enter Trump Tower by a rear entrance to avoid the media camped out at the elevator bank. He met several times with former National Security Adviser Mike Flynn to discuss appointees. One meeting with Kellyanne Conway and National Security Council member Kevin Harrington on an Acela train from New York City to Washington, D.C.

Tax Reform
• Democrats are pledging not to cooperate on any rewriting of the tax code unless they know specifically how that revision would benefit the billionaire president and his family, i.e. he releases his tax returns.
Family Business

• The same day that daughter Ivanka & presidential son-in-law/senior advisor Jared Kushner sat next to Chinese President Xi and his wife for dinner at Mar-a-Lago, her company won provisional approval from the Chinese government for three new trademarks, giving it monopoly rights to sell Ivanka brand jewelry, bags and spa services in the world's second-largest economy. Ivanka Trump Marks LLC has 32 pending applications in China and applied for at least nine new trademarks in the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Canada and the U.S. after the election.

North Korea
• In statements in Seoul, South Korea, Vice President Mike Pence warned North Korea to "not to test [the president's] resolve or the strength of the armed forces of the United States" and offered the strikes on Syria & Afghanistan as proof.
Low-risk, low-cost actions, one of which was in a country we've been at war in for 16 years, are not "resolve". Seems like pretty low-hanging fruit, honestly, and hardly in the same league as threatening to tear up a 60-year-old armistice, putting tens of millions of South Korean lives on the line, and risking war with China.

• While "a person familiar with the White House's thinking" said that the president prefers to let China take the lead on dealing with North Korea, he is considering "kinetic action" options.

• Last week the White House announced that it had ordered the U.S.S. Carl Vinson's carrier strike group to the Sea of Japan to send a message to the North Koreans. Spicey Meatball & Secretary of Defense James Mattis gave the impression that the fleet was racing at flanks speed to the regional waters. "We're sending an armada," the president said, inflaming fears in South Korea of imminent hostilities.

In actuality the three ships were 3000 miles away, steaming in the opposite direction to rendezvous with Australian naval units. How did we find out? Because the Navy posted a photo of it passing the island of Java, facing the wrong direction.

The Vinson is now proceeding north.

Russia
• Two Russian Tu-95 Bear long-range bombers flew within 100 miles of Kodiak Island off the coast of Alaska, prompting F-22s to scramble from Elmendorf Air Force Base to intercept. The last Russian incursion of U.S. airspace was in July of 2015.
Homeland Security

• Secretary John Kelly said that congressional critics of the department should "shut up" and assume that agents are following the law, or change the laws.

• On April 11, a federal civil rights complaint was filed claiming that, out of 33,126 complaints of sexual and physical abuse in immigration detention, only 570 cases have been DHS's Office of the Inspector General, the agency's oversight office.

Department of Justice
• A month after firing all of the U.S. Attorneys, the department has no new chief prosecutors in place, hampering the crackdown regime that Attorney General & noted racist Jeff Sessions wants to implement.

Executive Orders
• The president is going to make it harder for technology companies to recruit low-wage workers from foreign countries by cracking down on H1-B visas.
Some experts warn that this could increase offshoring efforts by tech companies instead of spurring them to hire American workers.

• The order does not affect H-2A/B visas that companies owned by the family rely heavily on.

• Since the election, NBC tracked 56 shipments of Ivanka Trump products from China & Singapore out of 215 from Asia overall. The president's clothing line was manufactured in China as well.

• Also, all federal agencies will be directed to adhere to "Buy American" rules, giving the highest priority to American companies when making purchasing decisions.

Hm. I'm old enough to remember when it was impossible to create jobs via government spending.

Spicey Meatball
• Had a new argument for why they weren't releasing the White House visitor logs. Before it was saving money & national security. Now he's saying that if members of congress don't have to disclose who they meet with, neither does the White House.

Swamp Thing
• Senior White House budget adviser Marcus Peacock has departed the Office of Management and Budget to join Business Roundtable, a high-profile business lobby group in Washington. He will lead policy work on the group's key issues related to the administration's agenda, including tax legislation, infrastructure spending and regulatory reform.

The president made a very large show of the ethics pledge requiring executive branch employees to refrain from lobbying the office they worked in for five years after leaving government. Peacock was given a waiver and has "promised" to not lobby the OMB for six months.

Immigration Enforcement
• Despite the president's promise to not deport people covered under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, Juan Manuel Montes, 23, was grabbed by Customs & Border Patrol agents on Feb. 17 and found himself back in Mexico three hours later. He has lived in the U.S. since the age of 9.
"They shouldn't be very worried," he told ABC News in January. "I do have a big heart."

There are currently at least 10 other DACA enrollees currently in federal custody.

Media

• Fox is preparing to dump Bill O'Reilly in the wake of the raft of sexual harassment suits that came to light last month.
MOABI (Mother Of All Bad Ideas)

• Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) filed a bill that would allow former presidents & & vice presidents, in coordination with the sitting VP, to determine if a president is fit for office.
The States

• As of this point, John Ossoff has come in first by a wide margin in the special election to fill HHS Secretary Tom Price's seat in the Georgia 6th. But at 48.6%, all that gets him is a runoff against a candidate that the whole of the GOP is behind instead of a severely fragmented field.

• Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker had a hat made up for the president to honor the Milwaukee Bucks' return to the playoffs. Naturally & unimaginatively it says, "Make the Bucks Great Again."

Giannis Antetokounmpo grew up an undocumented immigrant from Nigeria in Greece; Thon Maker is a refugee from Sudan, which is on the travel ban list; and the team refuses to stay at Trump hotels.

Fittingly perhaps, the only Bucks championship came in 1971, which is roughly the time frame the president wishes to return the country to.

This has been Day 89 in Trumpistan. Good night!

Love these updates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2017, 06:56:57 PM
I told the guy he should make them public or start posting a blog because it's a great format. He's a bit shy though, doesn't want to make a name for himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on April 19, 2017, 08:13:51 PM
Bill O'Reilly gone from Fox
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on April 19, 2017, 08:55:21 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on April 19, 2017, 08:13:51 PM
Bill O'Reilly gone from Fox

Always remember him arguing with Richard Dawkins and how atheists could lack morals. How his Catholicism was important to him. Where's his morals now????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2017, 09:21:09 PM
That was the interview where he claimed that science couldn't explain why the sun rises and sets every day or why the tide goes in and out so predictably. Colbert agreed and said "like all good religions it's based on the belief that there must be a God because I don't understand how things work."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 19, 2017, 10:42:33 PM
Its not like these are liberal women out to get O'Reilly and Ailes for political reasons. The likes of Gretchen Carlson and Andrea Tantaros were hardcore, partisan Republicans to the extent that they either were or adopted the most idiotic, brain dead arguments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 19, 2017, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

The US has undoubtedly been the most malign influence on world affairs since World War II.

Consistent interference with no regard for the consequences, all over the world. No other country comes remotely close to their malign influence since 1945. US foreign policy since 1945 has been an absolute cancer.

Nice work trying to muddy the waters with references to the Holocaust.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 20, 2017, 12:08:14 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 19, 2017, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

The US has undoubtedly been the most malign influence on world affairs since World War II.

Consistent interference with no regard for the consequences, all over the world. No other country comes remotely close to their malign influence since 1945. US foreign policy since 1945 has been an absolute cancer.

Nice work trying to muddy the waters with references to the Holocaust.

Eh.....did you never hear of the Cold War?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 12:14:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 19, 2017, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

The US has undoubtedly been the most malign influence on world affairs since World War II.

Consistent interference with no regard for the consequences, all over the world. No other country comes remotely close to their malign influence since 1945. US foreign policy since 1945 has been an absolute cancer.

Nice work trying to muddy the waters with references to the Holocaust.

So we are only talking about things since 1945?? Are you ten?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 20, 2017, 12:19:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 12:14:24 AM
Are you ten?
I generally find in INTERNET arguments that people who ask this sort of question are considerably closer to that age than the person they ask it of.

Your case it would appear to be the rule rather than the exception, certainly if one is talking about mental age.  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 20, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Milltown where is you're proof that six million Jews were gassed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 20, 2017, 01:45:38 AM
Not sure if serious?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 20, 2017, 02:55:12 AM
Excellent! I don't think we've had holocaust denialism represented on the board before! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on April 20, 2017, 03:06:42 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on April 19, 2017, 08:13:51 PM
Bill O'Reilly gone from Fox

Smarmy p***k with an Irish name unfortunately. Had paid 13 million in hush money! How on earth could he afford to do that? Maybe Pat Kenny and yer man 'talk to Joe what is name' underpaid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 03:07:44 AM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on April 20, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Milltown where is you're proof that six million Jews were gassed?
More than half of them were shot by Nazis and helpers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 03:13:56 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 20, 2017, 03:06:42 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on April 19, 2017, 08:13:51 PM
Bill O'Reilly gone from Fox

Smarmy p***k with an Irish name unfortunately. Had paid 13 million in hush money! How on earth could he afford to do that? Maybe Pat Kenny and yer man 'talk to Joe what is name' underpaid.
Fox make $1.5 bn a year and O'Reilly had the most popular show drawing in the most ad money. I think he earned $18m

There were loads of Irish Americans on the Trump bandwagon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on April 20, 2017, 04:08:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 03:13:56 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 20, 2017, 03:06:42 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on April 19, 2017, 08:13:51 PM
Bill O'Reilly gone from Fox

Smarmy p***k with an Irish name unfortunately. Had paid 13 million in hush money! How on earth could he afford to do that? Maybe Pat Kenny and yer man 'talk to Joe what is name' underpaid.
Fox make $1.5 bn a year and O'Reilly had the most popular show drawing in the most ad money. I think he earned $18m

There were loads of Irish Americans on the Trump bandwagon.

You'll find that Irish-Americans are some of the biggest right wing zealots in the US. Typically when the Irish emigrate by the time they are first generation or second they have become first class bigots - and lots of them are part of Trumps team (Conway, Spicer, Bannon, etc) and on Fox (Hannity, O'Reilly). Ironically, you'll find that some of the biggest Irish-American right wing zealots are some of the biggest supporters of Sinn Fein and Irish Republicanism (who'd proclaim themselves left wing in Ireland). Republican Peter King would be a typical example. The people who march up Fifth Avenue with the England out of Ireland banners are the same ones who are out in out homophobes in the US. From a values perspective they have more in common with the DUP, yet politically they are wrap the green flag around me, belting out some say he rose again (the devil) and joined the British Army. Which is why Right wing Left wing is meaningless anymore. Some of the biggest left wingers are at the same time some of the biggest right wingers, especially when it comes to Irish-America.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 20, 2017, 04:27:22 AM
The above post is not wrong
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 07:46:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 20, 2017, 12:19:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 12:14:24 AM
Are you ten?
I generally find in INTERNET arguments that people who ask this sort of question are considerably closer to that age than the person they ask it of.

Your case it would appear to be the rule rather than the exception, certainly if one is talking about mental age.  ;)

You avoid answering questions so I can only assume you are full of shit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 08:15:26 AM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/04/17/trump-bombs-the-real-madman/

Nikki Haley, who was booed and virtually laughed off the stage on Wednesday evening at the Women in the World Summit in New York's Lincoln Center for sounding like she had just discovered that the world outside Oklahoma existed, had the screen to herself on CNN. The New York audience had outright laughed when she said, "We don't do soft power." Now that it was clear what she had meant, no one was laughing even as she struggled, incoherently, to express a policy that was itself incoherent: "Regime change is something that we think is going to happen because all of the parties are going to see that Assad is not the leader that needs to be taking place for Syria." :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 20, 2017, 11:30:39 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on April 20, 2017, 04:08:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 03:13:56 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 20, 2017, 03:06:42 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on April 19, 2017, 08:13:51 PM
Bill O'Reilly gone from Fox

Smarmy p***k with an Irish name unfortunately. Had paid 13 million in hush money! How on earth could he afford to do that? Maybe Pat Kenny and yer man 'talk to Joe what is name' underpaid.
Fox make $1.5 bn a year and O'Reilly had the most popular show drawing in the most ad money. I think he earned $18m

There were loads of Irish Americans on the Trump bandwagon.

You'll find that Irish-Americans are some of the biggest right wing zealots in the US. Typically when the Irish emigrate by the time they are first generation or second they have become first class bigots - and lots of them are part of Trumps team (Conway, Spicer, Bannon, etc) and on Fox (Hannity, O'Reilly). Ironically, you'll find that some of the biggest Irish-American right wing zealots are some of the biggest supporters of Sinn Fein and Irish Republicanism (who'd proclaim themselves left wing in Ireland). Republican Peter King would be a typical example. The people who march up Fifth Avenue with the England out of Ireland banners are the same ones who are out in out homophobes in the US. From a values perspective they have more in common with the DUP, yet politically they are wrap the green flag around me, belting out some say he rose again (the devil) and joined the British Army. Which is why Right wing Left wing is meaningless anymore. Some of the biggest left wingers are at the same time some of the biggest right wingers, especially when it comes to Irish-America.

While painting in very broad strokes, much of what you posted is accutate

What cracks me up is the moral high ground taken by many of my Irish Republican friends when it comes to criticizing the United States.  Seems like they have very short memories as to who funded their struggle, armed them, and who gave them legitimacy on the world stage (when they were pariahs in the eyes of many at home)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 19, 2017, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

The US has undoubtedly been the most malign influence on world affairs since World War II.

Consistent interference with no regard for the consequences, all over the world. No other country comes remotely close to their malign influence since 1945. US foreign policy since 1945 has been an absolute cancer.

Nice work trying to muddy the waters with references to the Holocaust.

That opinion would a hard sell for anyone living under the Iron Curtain for 45 years, in China/Tibet of the Great Leap forward etc

Whilst I was arguing earlier that I consider the Nazis to the ne plus ultra of 20th Century evil, the USSR was a gross and pernicious influence on world affairs, with far more countries directly under their influence than the US had, justice and penal systems that were tantamount to genocide for their own people, and a willingness (still being seen today) to meddle in other countries affairs that at least matched the US.

We can argue about how the US fought for their belief systems or sought to impose them on others - however, those beliefs, no matter how badly distorted they are through the prism of capitalism and greed, are still based on the ideas of individual freedom of speech and religion, a just state and providing economic opportunities for citizens, that fired the Enlightenment.

The Soviet system was based (and now the Russian system, if you are LGBTQ or Muslim) on the repression of individual rights. And they used every weapon in their arsenal against their own people and the people of client countries to achieve this repression.

The modern day left's refusal to reckon with the Soviet legacy always leaves them open to attack, and also weakens the credibility of their justified crticisms of American capitalism and empire building. I'd recommend you read "Korba the Dread" by Martin Amis on Stalin and the system he built before elevating the America of the post-war years to the role of Great Satan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 20, 2017, 12:24:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 19, 2017, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

The US has undoubtedly been the most malign influence on world affairs since World War II.

Consistent interference with no regard for the consequences, all over the world. No other country comes remotely close to their malign influence since 1945. US foreign policy since 1945 has been an absolute cancer.

Nice work trying to muddy the waters with references to the Holocaust.

That opinion would a hard sell for anyone living under the Iron Curtain for 45 years, in China/Tibet of the Great Leap forward etc

Whilst I was arguing earlier that I consider the Nazis to the ne plus ultra of 20th Century evil, the USSR was a gross and pernicious influence on world affairs, with far more countries directly under their influence than the US had, justice and penal systems that were tantamount to genocide for their own people, and a willingness (still being seen today) to meddle in other countries affairs that at least matched the US.

We can argue about how the US fought for their belief systems or sought to impose them on others - however, those beliefs, no matter how badly distorted they are through the prism of capitalism and greed, are still based on the ideas of individual freedom of speech and religion, a just state and providing economic opportunities for citizens, that fired the Enlightenment.

The Soviet system was based (and now the Russian system, if you are LGBTQ or Muslim) on the repression of individual rights. And they used every weapon in their arsenal against their own people and the people of client countries to achieve this repression.

The modern day left's refusal to reckon with the Soviet legacy always leaves them open to attack, and also weakens the credibility of their justified crticisms of American capitalism and empire building. I'd recommend you read "Korba the Dread" by Martin Amis on Stalin and the system he built before elevating the America of the post-war years to the role of Great Satan.

Soviet interference in other countries was obviously deeply malign.

But US interference across the world cast a longer and wider shadow than Soviet interference and continues to do so, whereas the Soviet Union collapsed in on itself and no longer exists since 1991.

The list of dictatorships supported by the US since World War II is incredibly long.

Also the Soviets didn't enable the spread of Islamist ideas like the US has done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 01:18:30 PM
The American right's attitude to climate change is probably going to do more long term damage than anything else ever did. The Soviets destroyed the Aral Sea but they left the North Pole as it was.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 20, 2017, 12:24:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 19, 2017, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

The US has undoubtedly been the most malign influence on world affairs since World War II.

Consistent interference with no regard for the consequences, all over the world. No other country comes remotely close to their malign influence since 1945. US foreign policy since 1945 has been an absolute cancer.

Nice work trying to muddy the waters with references to the Holocaust.

That opinion would a hard sell for anyone living under the Iron Curtain for 45 years, in China/Tibet of the Great Leap forward etc

Whilst I was arguing earlier that I consider the Nazis to the ne plus ultra of 20th Century evil, the USSR was a gross and pernicious influence on world affairs, with far more countries directly under their influence than the US had, justice and penal systems that were tantamount to genocide for their own people, and a willingness (still being seen today) to meddle in other countries affairs that at least matched the US.

We can argue about how the US fought for their belief systems or sought to impose them on others - however, those beliefs, no matter how badly distorted they are through the prism of capitalism and greed, are still based on the ideas of individual freedom of speech and religion, a just state and providing economic opportunities for citizens, that fired the Enlightenment.

The Soviet system was based (and now the Russian system, if you are LGBTQ or Muslim) on the repression of individual rights. And they used every weapon in their arsenal against their own people and the people of client countries to achieve this repression.

The modern day left's refusal to reckon with the Soviet legacy always leaves them open to attack, and also weakens the credibility of their justified crticisms of American capitalism and empire building. I'd recommend you read "Korba the Dread" by Martin Amis on Stalin and the system he built before elevating the America of the post-war years to the role of Great Satan.

Soviet interference in other countries was obviously deeply malign.

But US interference across the world cast a longer and wider shadow than Soviet interference and continues to do so, whereas the Soviet Union collapsed in on itself and no longer exists since 1991.

The list of dictatorships supported by the US since World War II is incredibly long.

Also the Soviets didn't enable the spread of Islamist ideas like the US has done.

The Soviets are gone - but the Russian Federation is following down the path they trod before, ask the Chechens, or any Syrians living in fear of gunships, barrel bombs and poison gas.

The list of repressive communist regimes supported by the Soviets was as long, if not longer then the US list. Today, the list is getting as long of repressive, authoritarian states fostered by Putin - Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan etc.

The hardline Iranian Revolution against the Shah (who was illegally installed by American and British interests) would have been hard pushed to survive had the Soviets not supported them, especially during the Iran/Iraq war.

The mujahedeen in Afghanistan were a resistance movement against the Russian invasion, and armed by the Americans. Both sides have tried to weaponise different factions of Islam.

The insistence on America as the Great Satan greatly downplays the atrocities and geopolitical manoeuvring that was taking place on the other side, and is, if you don't mind me saying it, quite naïve.

The great tradition of anti-capitalist political critiques on the left are necessary and rational, and I would consider myself to be in sympathy with and supportive of their aims. However, that doesn't prevent me realising that for all the validity of their critiques, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein etc would be hung up by their thumbs in dungeons if they aired those opinions in either the USSR or modern Russia.

Fish don't know what water is - they only realise how important it is when they are taken out of it. The same could be said of Western citizens and democratic freedoms - which is why we insist on gambling it on decisions like Brexit and morons like Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on April 20, 2017, 03:57:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 20, 2017, 12:24:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 19, 2017, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Zulu on April 19, 2017, 12:22:33 AM
MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

The US has undoubtedly been the most malign influence on world affairs since World War II.

Consistent interference with no regard for the consequences, all over the world. No other country comes remotely close to their malign influence since 1945. US foreign policy since 1945 has been an absolute cancer.

Nice work trying to muddy the waters with references to the Holocaust.

That opinion would a hard sell for anyone living under the Iron Curtain for 45 years, in China/Tibet of the Great Leap forward etc

Whilst I was arguing earlier that I consider the Nazis to the ne plus ultra of 20th Century evil, the USSR was a gross and pernicious influence on world affairs, with far more countries directly under their influence than the US had, justice and penal systems that were tantamount to genocide for their own people, and a willingness (still being seen today) to meddle in other countries affairs that at least matched the US.

We can argue about how the US fought for their belief systems or sought to impose them on others - however, those beliefs, no matter how badly distorted they are through the prism of capitalism and greed, are still based on the ideas of individual freedom of speech and religion, a just state and providing economic opportunities for citizens, that fired the Enlightenment.

The Soviet system was based (and now the Russian system, if you are LGBTQ or Muslim) on the repression of individual rights. And they used every weapon in their arsenal against their own people and the people of client countries to achieve this repression.

The modern day left's refusal to reckon with the Soviet legacy always leaves them open to attack, and also weakens the credibility of their justified crticisms of American capitalism and empire building. I'd recommend you read "Korba the Dread" by Martin Amis on Stalin and the system he built before elevating the America of the post-war years to the role of Great Satan.

Soviet interference in other countries was obviously deeply malign.

But US interference across the world cast a longer and wider shadow than Soviet interference and continues to do so, whereas the Soviet Union collapsed in on itself and no longer exists since 1991.

The list of dictatorships supported by the US since World War II is incredibly long.

Also the Soviets didn't enable the spread of Islamist ideas like the US has done.

The Soviets are gone - but the Russian Federation is following down the path they trod before, ask the Chechens, or any Syrians living in fear of gunships, barrel bombs and poison gas.

The list of repressive communist regimes supported by the Soviets was as long, if not longer then the US list. Today, the list is getting as long of repressive, authoritarian states fostered by Putin - Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan etc.

The hardline Iranian Revolution against the Shah (who was illegally installed by American and British interests) would have been hard pushed to survive had the Soviets not supported them, especially during the Iran/Iraq war.

The mujahedeen in Afghanistan were a resistance movement against the Russian invasion, and armed by the Americans. Both sides have tried to weaponise different factions of Islam.

The insistence on America as the Great Satan greatly downplays the atrocities and geopolitical manoeuvring that was taking place on the other side, and is, if you don't mind me saying it, quite naïve.

The great tradition of anti-capitalist political critiques on the left are necessary and rational, and I would consider myself to be in sympathy with and supportive of their aims. However, that doesn't prevent me realising that for all the validity of their critiques, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein etc would be hung up by their thumbs in dungeons if they aired those opinions in either the USSR or modern Russia.

Fish don't know what water is - they only realise how important it is when they are taken out of it. The same could be said of Western citizens and democratic freedoms - which is why we insist on gambling it on decisions like Brexit and morons like Trump.

No they weren't. The Mujahedeen were in existence before the Russians invaded and threatened to overthrow the then moderate government in place. It was only when the Russians under invitation from a government being overwhelmed by Bin Laden and the other various well funded Saudi Mujahadeen members that the Russians moved in. They'd no economic interest in Afghanistan although they didn't want the then friendly Afghan government to fall and have extremists on their doorstep and boy did they regret that move, just like the Americans regretted training the same fanatics who flew planes into the WTC.

Try reading William Blums book on this, its a good read.


Found this for you;

https://williamblum.org/chapters/killing-hope/afghanistan (https://williamblum.org/chapters/killing-hope/afghanistan)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 06:11:09 PM
Apologies for my inaccuracy Johnney - I suppose my point to Sid is that in as much as the US has thrown in behind Sunni/ Wahabbi Saudi Arabia, Russia went with Shia Iran - and both ended up weaponising Islamic extremism on both sides. Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on April 20, 2017, 10:40:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 06:11:09 PM
Apologies for my inaccuracy Johnney - I suppose my point to Sid is that in as much as the US has thrown in behind Sunni/ Wahabbi Saudi Arabia, Russia went with Shia Iran - and both ended up weaponising Islamic extremism on both sides. Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out.

You're right to highlight the fact that all sides involved are more interested in maintaining / increasing their strategic interests in the Middle East as with the Russians with Assad in Syria, the US and Brits with Saudi Arabia, the French in Libya and so forth all able to turn blind eyes to various heinous crimes in the area in Yemen, Iraq, Israel, Syria and so on.
It'll be interesting how Turkey go with Ergodan taking full control and his impact on the region
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 25, 2017, 05:07:55 AM
QuotePOTUS
• Spoke via video link with Commander Peggy Whitson aboard the International Space Station, who just set a new record for total time in space. He apparently is setting a goal for a manned landing on Mars during his second term.
The first manned mission of any type using the Orion capsule is not slated to take place until 2023.

Taxes
• The president has reportedly told his staff to craft a plan that will cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 15%, even if it will reduce revenues, by Wednesday so he can make the announcement he promised last week.

Roughly, each percentage-point cut in the tax rate lowers federal revenue by $100 billion over a decade, so a 20-point cut would cost the government $2 trillion over a decade, according to the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation.

So really he wants to have a theatrical tax reduction moment and doesn't care if he blows up the budget in order to do it. Reduce revenue, up military spending. Wonder whose backs are going to bear that extra change.

Treasury Department
Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin said that the president's tax plan "will pay for itself" thanks to economic growth.

Supply-side economics has never worked. This is just unambiguously true. Even Bruce Bartlett, the author of Reaganomics, has been calling for higher taxes on the wealthy for years.

100 Days
• New Jersey governor Chris Christie gives the president a 'B' grade so far.

YOU'RE NOT GETTING A JOB, CHRIS. GIVE IT UP.

Never Ask Me About My Kleptocracy
• The U.S. Embassy to the United Kingdom ran an ad for the president's tony, members-only club, Mar-a-Lago on its website.

Trade
• The Department of Commerce announced it would impose countervailing duties of up to 24% on Canadian softwood lumber and Customs & Border Protection would be collecting cash deposits at the border. This has been a long-running trade dispute between the nations, but Canada has always prevailed when the matter was adjudicated by NAFTA & WTO panels. The previous agreement on the matter expired last October.

Border Wall
• On Friday Office of Management and Budget head Mick Mulvaney offered Democrats a deal: For every dollar you give us to build the border wall, we won't cut a dollar from the ACA subsidies. Literally holding the well-being of millions of citizens hostage in order to pay for this xenophobic boondoggle. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer effectively told him to get bent.

• Then in a meeting with conservative media reporters Monday, the president said he would be willing to let funds for the border wall wait for spending legislation in September.

Cuck.

The Best People
• Deputy Assistant to The President on counterterrorism and cybersecurity, anti-Islamist hardliner, anti-Semite, and former Breitbart security editor Sebastian Gorka was participating in a panel discussion at Georgetown University on fake news. The self-described "alpha male" stormed out after five students asked questions challenging him on his (very thin) credentials as an academic and as a professional.

Snowflake.

The Russia House
• 73% of respondents in an NBC/WSJ poll prefer an independent commission — instead of Congress — to investigate Russian interference in the election.

• The Senate Intelligence Committee investigation seems to have stalled, with only seven part-time staffers assigned to it. None of them have any investigative or counter-intelligence background. One is still in law school. There is no witness list, no interviews have taken place, and pretty much the only thing they've done is ask people to preserve communications and documents.

Spicey Meatball
• Won't be fired no matter how many times he effs up or yells at reporters. Why? "That guy gets great ratings. Everyone tunes in," said the president.
This has been Day 95 in Trumpistan. Good night!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 25, 2017, 04:59:28 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 01:27:17 PM
Fish don't know what water is - they only realise how important it is when they are taken out of it. The same could be said of Western citizens and democratic freedoms - which is why we insist on gambling it on decisions like Brexit and morons like Trump.

Hear hear. This deserves to be framed on the wall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 25, 2017, 05:26:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 25, 2017, 04:59:28 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 20, 2017, 01:27:17 PM
Fish don't know what water is - they only realise how important it is when they are taken out of it. The same could be said of Western citizens and democratic freedoms - which is why we insist on gambling it on decisions like Brexit and morons like Trump.

Hear hear. This deserves to be framed on the wall.


This is kinda like blaming everything but the booze for a hangover.

Throughout the 20th century the propaganda of Democracy has become so ingrained into the psychology of Western society that we believe it is bedrock that our society is built on it and that only good can come from it.

The reality is tho that Democracy is a benefit of a stable society. Its only real usefulness to society is as a tool for keeping the people content by giving them the illusion they are having a say. Giving too much of it to the general populace inevitably means they will make emotional, populist, illogical and ultimately bad decisions as they tend to relate complex issues to themselves rather than in the macro context from where they stemmed from, which inevitably makes them worse and ultimately destabilises society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 25, 2017, 07:31:08 PM
Some people in America talk about freedom being a product of guns, but the truth is freedom is a product of democracy and the rule of law.

I agree that giving people too much of a say can be a problem, like they do in California where voters get to micromanage everything. But I think that the kind of parliamentary democracy that's popular in Europe is a much better compromise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 25, 2017, 10:10:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 25, 2017, 07:31:08 PM
Some people in America talk about freedom being a product of guns, but the truth is freedom is a product of democracy and the rule of law.

I agree that giving people too much of a say can be a problem, like they do in California where voters get to micromanage everything. But I think that the kind of parliamentary democracy that's popular in Europe is a much better compromise.


What is freedom tho Eammon? Ive been asking what it is and no one seems to able to give me a definite answer so I've concluded it must be subjective rather than objective. A state of mind, Which means you could have it anywhere... including an autocracy.

As you say (almost) rule of law, obedience to that law, which requires a carrot (usually some sort of ideal) and a stick (police, justice) comes first, long before democracy.And I dont believe any civilisation has existed in history without either being completely isolated or having some sort of defence

Europe has many different styles of government but they are all subject to the same problem of going with the consensus of an uninformed and manipulated electorate. Or to put it more simply putting power in the hands of the popular instead of the qualified.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 25, 2017, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 25, 2017, 10:10:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 25, 2017, 07:31:08 PM
Some people in America talk about freedom being a product of guns, but the truth is freedom is a product of democracy and the rule of law.

I agree that giving people too much of a say can be a problem, like they do in California where voters get to micromanage everything. But I think that the kind of parliamentary democracy that's popular in Europe is a much better compromise.


What is freedom tho Eammon? Ive been asking what it is and no one seems to able to give me a definite answer so I've concluded it must be subjective rather than objective. A state of mind, Which means you could have it anywhere... including an autocracy.

As you say (almost) rule of law, obedience to that law, which requires a carrot (usually some sort of ideal) and a stick (police, justice) comes first, long before democracy.And I dont believe any civilisation has existed in history without either being completely isolated or having some sort of defence

Europe has many different styles of government but they are all subject to the same problem of going with the consensus of an uninformed and manipulated electorate. Or to put it more simply putting power in the hands of the popular instead of the qualified.

What's your favoured system of government Joe?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 25, 2017, 11:11:01 PM
I mentioned it numerous time on here prior to 2016.....Technocracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on April 26, 2017, 09:14:57 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 25, 2017, 11:11:01 PM
I mentioned it numerous time on here prior to 2016.....Technocracy

Short hop from technocracy to autocracy, Joe, no?

I agree with some of your analysis re democracy, but I think you put too little emphasis on the rule of law, or rather, what democracy means for the rule of law.

For instance, in a dictatorship like Nazi Germany, there were laws, but they were not equally applicable to all citizens, which essentially subverts the rule of law, which allowed genocide to be codified and regulated.

In Communist Russia, and in today's Russia, there are laws, but they are ignored in certain instances when dealing with certain citizens (for instance the murder of critics of Putin, or the Stalinist purges). This again subverts the idea of the rule of law.

So what is the rule of law? It is the idea that any and all citizens hold the same rights before the law of a nation, no matter their background or circumstances. This law derives from the people through their elected representatives or through direct voting like referendums, is decided by the majority or the majority of their legislative representatives, and is implemented for the benefit of all (which is the clause of the American constitution that causes the most ire between liberals and conservatives - what was meant by the benefit of all? Does that mean social security and welfare, or does it mean freedom from repressive regulation? Though that is an argument for another thread).

Of course, the democratic system employs coercive force - the police, the courts, the penal system - but crucially, this force is only employed after the breaking of laws agreed by the people, is not employed against one section of the population exclusively (which is why pre-Civil rights NI could never have been recognised as a democratic society, despite a Unionist majority) and is not employed without the authorisation of the law, unlike secret police forces such as the Cheka, Stasi and Gestapo.

All of the above is an ideal - democracy is an imperfect solution, the best bad idea we have. But it surely guarantees citizens far more benefits, rights and choices than any other system out there. Much as you might think a technocracy might differ from an autocracy, they are the same thing, and cannot exist without removing the individuals rights from the centre of the governmental system.

The current unrest a la Trump, Brexit, Syria, Isis, fake news, manipulation etc is not a symptom of democracy's failure - it is a symptom of what happens when we let democracy degrade. Remember, much of the manipulation that happened during the American election was aimed at that system by an autocrat. If a vicious kleptocrat like Putin thinks democracy is a bad idea, then, for me, that is an endorsement that we need more of it. And quick.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on April 26, 2017, 09:51:04 AM
+1 Easytiger
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on April 26, 2017, 12:09:00 PM
When in doubt about something my default position is to see who's for or against it.
That can get me off the fence fair quick.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 26, 2017, 12:22:42 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 26, 2017, 09:14:57 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 25, 2017, 11:11:01 PM
I mentioned it numerous time on here prior to 2016.....Technocracy

Short hop from technocracy to autocracy, Joe, no?

I agree with some of your analysis re democracy, but I think you put too little emphasis on the rule of law, or rather, what democracy means for the rule of law.

For instance, in a dictatorship like Nazi Germany, there were laws, but they were not equally applicable to all citizens, which essentially subverts the rule of law, which allowed genocide to be codified and regulated.

In Communist Russia, and in today's Russia, there are laws, but they are ignored in certain instances when dealing with certain citizens (for instance the murder of critics of Putin, or the Stalinist purges). This again subverts the idea of the rule of law.

So what is the rule of law? It is the idea that any and all citizens hold the same rights before the law of a nation, no matter their background or circumstances. This law derives from the people through their elected representatives or through direct voting like referendums, is decided by the majority or the majority of their legislative representatives, and is implemented for the benefit of all (which is the clause of the American constitution that causes the most ire between liberals and conservatives - what was meant by the benefit of all? Does that mean social security and welfare, or does it mean freedom from repressive regulation? Though that is an argument for another thread).

Of course, the democratic system employs coercive force - the police, the courts, the penal system - but crucially, this force is only employed after the breaking of laws agreed by the people, is not employed against one section of the population exclusively (which is why pre-Civil rights NI could never have been recognised as a democratic society, despite a Unionist majority) and is not employed without the authorisation of the law, unlike secret police forces such as the Cheka, Stasi and Gestapo.

All of the above is an ideal - democracy is an imperfect solution, the best bad idea we have. But it surely guarantees citizens far more benefits, rights and choices than any other system out there. Much as you might think a technocracy might differ from an autocracy, they are the same thing, and cannot exist without removing the individuals rights from the centre of the governmental system.

The current unrest a la Trump, Brexit, Syria, Isis, fake news, manipulation etc is not a symptom of democracy's failure - it is a symptom of what happens when we let democracy degrade. Remember, much of the manipulation that happened during the American election was aimed at that system by an autocrat. If a vicious kleptocrat like Putin thinks democracy is a bad idea, then, for me, that is an endorsement that we need more of it. And quick.
The current unrest is linked to the economic system. The richest 1% of Americans own more than 50% of everything. They have bought large chunks of the political system . The GOP wouldn't discuss healthcare with the last president. Clinton would only discuss a very limited range of issues. Sanders was destroyed by the Democratic party because he spoke about things lke a rational health system.

People aren't seeing any progress in their economic circumstances because most new money ends up with the rich.

Michael Moore was interviewed last week

"I think we've gone through 40 years of a country being dumbed down," Moore said. "We defunded our schools allowing them to just go into an awful state. The arts have been canceled and civics classes dropped in one third of schools
I think the equation is simple," he explained. "It's theAmerican equation. Dumb down the population and make them ignorant and stupid. Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to hate. Trump knew that part of the equation really well. And hate leads to violence"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2017, 05:43:13 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 26, 2017, 09:14:57 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 25, 2017, 11:11:01 PM
I mentioned it numerous time on here prior to 2016.....Technocracy

Short hop from technocracy to autocracy, Joe, no?

I agree with some of your analysis re democracy, but I think you put too little emphasis on the rule of law, or rather, what democracy means for the rule of law.

For instance, in a dictatorship like Nazi Germany, there were laws, but they were not equally applicable to all citizens, which essentially subverts the rule of law, which allowed genocide to be codified and regulated.

In Communist Russia, and in today's Russia, there are laws, but they are ignored in certain instances when dealing with certain citizens (for instance the murder of critics of Putin, or the Stalinist purges). This again subverts the idea of the rule of law.

So what is the rule of law? It is the idea that any and all citizens hold the same rights before the law of a nation, no matter their background or circumstances. This law derives from the people through their elected representatives or through direct voting like referendums, is decided by the majority or the majority of their legislative representatives, and is implemented for the benefit of all (which is the clause of the American constitution that causes the most ire between liberals and conservatives - what was meant by the benefit of all? Does that mean social security and welfare, or does it mean freedom from repressive regulation? Though that is an argument for another thread).

Of course, the democratic system employs coercive force - the police, the courts, the penal system - but crucially, this force is only employed after the breaking of laws agreed by the people, is not employed against one section of the population exclusively (which is why pre-Civil rights NI could never have been recognised as a democratic society, despite a Unionist majority) and is not employed without the authorisation of the law, unlike secret police forces such as the Cheka, Stasi and Gestapo.

All of the above is an ideal - democracy is an imperfect solution, the best bad idea we have. But it surely guarantees citizens far more benefits, rights and choices than any other system out there. Much as you might think a technocracy might differ from an autocracy, they are the same thing, and cannot exist without removing the individuals rights from the centre of the governmental system.

The current unrest a la Trump, Brexit, Syria, Isis, fake news, manipulation etc is not a symptom of democracy's failure - it is a symptom of what happens when we let democracy degrade. Remember, much of the manipulation that happened during the American election was aimed at that system by an autocrat. If a vicious kleptocrat like Putin thinks democracy is a bad idea, then, for me, that is an endorsement that we need more of it. And quick.

Hear hear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 26, 2017, 07:07:41 PM
Well autocracy and technocracy sound very similar I admit but I think that's where it ends. Perhaps expand as to why you think its a short step from one to the next. Or better still perhaps talk about the faults and merits of it in its own right instead of trying to associate it with another governance system. Also cant you just as easily say democracy leads to autocracy as the people vote them in and we have numerous examples Putin, Erdogan, Chavez... etc

I wouldn't completely dispense with democracy tho, those making the decisions still have to be held accountable to those they are governing in some way, so a good system of checks and balances would still be required and a thorough and strong constitution that is voted on by the people and of course an independent justice system. However the people and the demagogues they vote for are predisposed to making selfish irrational and contradictory decisions so they should be kept as far away from the actual governance as possible. Even current democracies tend to do to an extend to make things governable such as party whips, cabinets, executives, political ideologies, Plurality voting... all are methods of taking power away from the people and keeping the system on track, stable and governable.

And following on from this, your right these things have been "degraded" lately but this should lead to a more pure form of democracy, Take Brexit... it was pure democracy in action, the people made a decision and thats what we go with, everything else be damned.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2017, 07:26:47 PM
The communist world tried technocracy and it led to dictatorship.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 26, 2017, 08:07:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2017, 07:26:47 PM
The communist world tried technocracy and it led to dictatorship.

...Germany tried democracy and it led to a Fascist dictatorship.

Discuss its on own merits
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2017, 08:40:34 PM
Okay then. The communist world tried technocracy and by and large it led to dictatorships.

The non-communist world has tried democracy and by and large it has not led to fascist dictatorships.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 26, 2017, 09:06:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2017, 08:40:34 PM
Okay then. The communist world tried technocracy and by and large it led to dictatorships.

The non-communist world has tried democracy and by and large it has not led to fascist dictatorships.

Its a false analogy (or equivalence I never know). The USSR may be argued was a technocracy but most weren't and practically all were dictatorships with a single party system to begin with.

What part of Discuss its own merits don't you get? IF you want to talk about the pros and cons of dictatorship go right ahead, (presumably you think they are all negative). I'll hardly bother since I was talking about technocracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2017, 09:53:59 PM
It was bad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2017, 03:36:24 AM
Mr Obama getting 400k for an hour speech at Wall Street nice little earner .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 27, 2017, 06:57:13 AM
I missed ya.  ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on April 27, 2017, 12:22:30 PM
Joe, I was asking the question (hence the question mark) about whether it is a short step from technocracy to autocracy. Perhaps a better course is for you to describe what you understand a technocracy to be and how it would function, certainly I'd like to hear how a technocratic elite would function alongside the strong constitution you rightly describe as necessary for checks and balances.

By the way, with regard to Erdogan, Chavez, Putin etc democracy cannot exist without strong institutions and you don't usually see that turn from democracy to dictatorship in countries with long democratic histories. The Republic of Ireland is very much an outlier given the relative youth of our country and the stability of our institutions, though we did have the British democratic tradition to draw on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 27, 2017, 02:39:37 PM
https://youtu.be/Qo3fT0xPeHs (https://youtu.be/Qo3fT0xPeHs)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2017, 04:30:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2017, 03:36:24 AM
Mr Obama getting 400k for an hour speech at Wall Street nice little earner .

Pocket change. Sure himself and Michelle are getting 65 million for their memoirs.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 27, 2017, 06:03:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 27, 2017, 12:22:30 PM
Joe, I was asking the question (hence the question mark) about whether it is a short step from technocracy to autocracy. Perhaps a better course is for you to describe what you understand a technocracy to be and how it would function, certainly I'd like to hear how a technocratic elite would function alongside the strong constitution you rightly describe as necessary for checks and balances.

By the way, with regard to Erdogan, Chavez, Putin etc democracy cannot exist without strong institutions and you don't usually see that turn from democracy to dictatorship in countries with long democratic histories. The Republic of Ireland is very much an outlier given the relative youth of our country and the stability of our institutions, though we did have the British democratic tradition to draw on.

I dunno really Tiger, Im no political scientist but I'll give it a go.... I suppose you have the basic ideals of the state defined by the populace and then let it be fleshed out by constitutional writers.

The autocrats would be proposed by some sort of committee consisting mainly of their peers. And confirmed by a secondary committee which would include elected officials, various societal representatives, they would have to answer to both committees and could be deposed by them. Their terms would be limited, obviously. Tho after maxing their terms out they could run to head up the technocratic cabinet which would also be decided upon by the committee I mentioned earlier.

The autocrat cabinet decisions would be made based on the direct of constitution and the technical knowledge of the autocrat. The technocratic cabinet

As I say I am sort of thinking out loud and I dont know all the ins and outs of it but the overall aim is to get the best people into the right jobs, something which a democratic system is inherently flawed not to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 27, 2017, 11:26:08 PM
Alarming trends in the US

Free speech is dead- Berkeley shut down Ann Coulter from speaking due to potential violence from Democrat/Left "anti-facists" -

Targeting any media commentator who isn't biased against trump. Hannity is next on the radar.

Sanctuary city mayors going to bat to protect criminals who are illegal citizens from deportation. Screw the legal citizens eh?

Then there are this gems
looking for equality by discriminating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhU5YZ2SD8Q

having voter IDs is discriminatory (i.e. democrats trying to cheat more votes)
https://twitter.com/tuckercarlson/status/851989597852774400

Liberal madness. That's what happens after 8 years of the WPOTUS



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2017, 05:13:36 AM
Coulter isn't very happy with Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2017, 11:09:22 AM
Trump has a very limited vocabulary 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2017/apr/28/donald-trump-i-thought-being-president-would-be-easier-video

compared to say 30 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

the Yanks made a huge mistaker electing him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2017, 05:05:24 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/ivanka-trumps-white-house-role-is-a-symbol-of-democratic-decline/2017/04/27/a060980c-2b64-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2017, 05:59:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 27, 2017, 11:26:08 PM
Alarming trends in the US

Free speech is dead- Berkeley shut down Ann Coulter from speaking due to potential violence from Democrat/Left "anti-facists" -

Targeting any media commentator who isn't biased against trump. Hannity is next on the radar.

Sanctuary city mayors going to bat to protect criminals who are illegal citizens from deportation. Screw the legal citizens eh?

Then there are this gems
looking for equality by discriminating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhU5YZ2SD8Q

having voter IDs is discriminatory (i.e. democrats trying to cheat more votes)
https://twitter.com/tuckercarlson/status/851989597852774400

Liberal madness. That's what happens after 8 years of the WPOTUS

Play me the world's smallest violin. Coulter cancelled the event herself, you silly conservative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 28, 2017, 06:14:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2017, 11:09:22 AM
Trump has a very limited vocabulary 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2017/apr/28/donald-trump-i-thought-being-president-would-be-easier-video

compared to say 30 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

the Yanks made a huge mistaker electing him

The wouldnt have elected him if the democrat fuckwits hadnt screwed Saunders!

In other words, blame the liberals for getting him elected!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2017, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: stew on April 28, 2017, 06:14:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2017, 11:09:22 AM
Trump has a very limited vocabulary 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2017/apr/28/donald-trump-i-thought-being-president-would-be-easier-video

compared to say 30 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

the Yanks made a huge mistaker electing him

The wouldnt have elected him if the democrat fuckwits hadnt screwed Saunders!

In other words, blame the liberals for getting him elected!

The right could have had any of 15 other candidates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2017, 06:57:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2017, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: stew on April 28, 2017, 06:14:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2017, 11:09:22 AM
Trump has a very limited vocabulary 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2017/apr/28/donald-trump-i-thought-being-president-would-be-easier-video

compared to say 30 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

the Yanks made a huge mistaker electing him

The wouldnt have elected him if the democrat fuckwits hadnt screwed Saunders!

In other words, blame the liberals for getting him elected!

The right could have had any of 15 other candidates.

Don't think so....the liberal media conspired with the Clinton campaign to push Trump as a legitimate candidate because they thought he'd get walloped by Hillary in the General Election

https://www.google.com/amp/observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/amp/

"The memo named Trump, Sen. Ted Cruz, and Ben Carson as wanted candidates. "We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to them seriously," the memo noted."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2017, 07:04:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2017, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: stew on April 28, 2017, 06:14:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2017, 11:09:22 AM
Trump has a very limited vocabulary 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2017/apr/28/donald-trump-i-thought-being-president-would-be-easier-video

compared to say 30 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

the Yanks made a huge mistaker electing him

The wouldnt have elected him if the democrat fuckwits hadnt screwed Saunders!

In other words, blame the liberals for getting him elected!

The right could have had any of 15 other candidates.
Not really. They all swore loyalty to the Koch agenda of tax cuts for the rich and the base rejected every single one of them.

Trump promised to drain the swamp . He promised to take on Wall St

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

It's such a joke
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2017, 07:13:33 PM
You know what's hillarious? Watching conservatives trying to blame liberals for the election of the most incompetent US president ever.

"Oh b.b.b.but those liberals made me do it!"

Suck it up, conservatives! Trump is the logical outcome of the intellectual bankruptcy that you're in. You've got the White House and both houses of congress. All the f***-ups are yours. Own it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2017, 07:51:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2017, 05:59:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 27, 2017, 11:26:08 PM
Alarming trends in the US

Free speech is dead- Berkeley shut down Ann Coulter from speaking due to potential violence from Democrat/Left "anti-facists" -

Targeting any media commentator who isn't biased against trump. Hannity is next on the radar.

Sanctuary city mayors going to bat to protect criminals who are illegal citizens from deportation. Screw the legal citizens eh?

Then there are this gems
looking for equality by discriminating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhU5YZ2SD8Q

having voter IDs is discriminatory (i.e. democrats trying to cheat more votes)
https://twitter.com/tuckercarlson/status/851989597852774400

Liberal madness. That's what happens after 8 years of the WPOTUS

Play me the world's smallest violin. Coulter cancelled the event herself, you silly conservative.

The event would have gone quietly ahead in the first place if there wasn't a threat of violence from the left.

Anti-facists indeed. Every time I see these pathetic morons protesting it makes me cringe.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2017, 07:54:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2017, 07:13:33 PM
You know what's hillarious? Watching conservatives trying to blame liberals for the election of the most incompetent US president ever.

"Oh b.b.b.but those liberals made me do it!"

Suck it up, conservatives! Trump is the logical outcome of the intellectual bankruptcy that you're in. You've got the White House and both houses of congress. All the f***-ups are yours. Own it!

Still waiting on the apology for the years 2009-2017 of the worst POTUS ever. Trump has some way to go yet to beat that.
The kenyan lad is lucky the liberal media was on his side all the way through. Imagine how much worse it would have been if he was getting the same rough treatment as the Trump administration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2017, 08:09:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2017, 07:13:33 PM
You know what's hillarious? Watching conservatives trying to blame liberals for the election of the most incompetent US president ever.

"Oh b.b.b.but those liberals made me do it!"

Suck it up, conservatives! Trump is the logical outcome of the intellectual bankruptcy that you're in. You've got the White House and both houses of congress. All the f***-ups are yours. Own it!

You can count the number of conservatives in Congress using the fingers on one hand
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/28/the-guardian-view-on-donald-trump-100-days-of-failure

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2017, 09:48:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2017, 07:51:40 PM
Every time I see these pathetic morons protesting it makes me cringe.

Oh you poor little snowflake. Would you like us to create a safe space for you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2017, 09:51:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2017, 07:54:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2017, 07:13:33 PM
You know what's hillarious? Watching conservatives trying to blame liberals for the election of the most incompetent US president ever.

"Oh b.b.b.but those liberals made me do it!"

Suck it up, conservatives! Trump is the logical outcome of the intellectual bankruptcy that you're in. You've got the White House and both houses of congress. All the f***-ups are yours. Own it!

Still waiting on the apology for the years 2009-2017 of the worst POTUS ever. Trump has some way to go yet to beat that.
The kenyan lad is lucky the liberal media was on his side all the way through. Imagine how much worse it would have been if he was getting the same rough treatment as the Trump administration.
(https://i2.wp.com/toadvancefreedom.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Obama-Scorecard-Original.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2017, 11:40:45 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRpqTIhVEAAjpG1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2017, 09:56:53 AM

He has very low credibility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xNFmwO8KO4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 29, 2017, 10:24:42 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2017, 07:13:33 PM
You know what's hillarious? Watching conservatives trying to blame liberals for the election of the most incompetent US president ever.

I see what you did there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2017, 01:27:34 PM
David Frum‏
@davidfrum  1 h

It's not a contradiction that Trump is *both* autocratic & incompetent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2017, 08:23:14 PM
@jaketapper  1 h
On Friday the EPA removed most climate change information from its website, to "reflect the approach of new leadership,"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 30, 2017, 04:16:01 PM
https://business.facebook.com/attn/videos/1357986120903510/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 30, 2017, 10:35:57 PM
Trump gave another rant in PA the other day using the same messages from his campaign. He is going to fix healthcare . Yeah.

David Frum was a speechwriter for Bush 2 . He's a proper conservative. And he's on twitter @davidfrum

@DavidFrum
"It is not a contradiction that Trump is *both* autocratic and incompetent."


He's really good on what is actually going on. Trump is out of his depth.  It looks like a Chevy Chase movie but unfortunately it isn't.
Ann Coulter is very interesting as well. @Anncoulter .   She's disgusted with Trump.

@AnnCoulter

"How about the 27th time? Nikki Haley, Mattis, Kelly, Goldman Sachs, Pudzer, Obamcare Lite, no DACA repeal, no refugee slowdown,no Kobach... "

Norm Ornstein is a decent old school Republican

Norman Ornstein‏ @NormOrnstein 
"We have a moron as president"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 01, 2017, 08:13:34 AM
Sebastian Gorka is leaving the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on May 01, 2017, 05:22:57 PM
So Obama got $400k for an hours speaking to Wall St. Not much different to the rest of them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2017, 05:43:40 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 01, 2017, 05:22:57 PM
So Obama got $400k for an hours speaking to Wall St. Not much different to the rest of them

Obama's retired. He can do what he likes. He's not the president anymore, so how is there a conflict of interest?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2017, 05:49:30 PM
"Obamacare, John, is dead. Okay, because we're being -- we're being compared to Obamacare. Just, so. Obamacare doesn't work--"

Just when you thought Sarah Palin was the master of building sentences to nowhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?
With the likes of Don Lemming, Wolf Blitzer, Rachel Maddow & co you can't believe a f**king word that comes out of their mouths.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 01, 2017, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM


Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

;D ;D ;D

This is like a scientologist accusing everybody who's not a scientologist of being a brainwashed lunatic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:37:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 01, 2017, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM


Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

;D ;D ;D

This is like a scientologist accusing everybody who's not a scientologist of being a brainwashed lunatic.

The liberals are making scientologists seem sane these days!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 01, 2017, 11:47:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:37:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 01, 2017, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM


Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

;D ;D ;D

This is like a scientologist accusing everybody who's not a scientologist of being a brainwashed lunatic.

The liberals are making scientologists seem sane these days!
Ah, this is absolute class. You remind me of studio audience members yer man Paul McKenna would get to believe and behave like they were an actual chicken on live television. The mad things utter simpletons like foxkkkommander can be wound up into writing, one could have endless fun with it.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2017, 11:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

You're dead right....it's a sad day when The NY Times is just about as credible as Fox News.....blatantly lying and making shit up in order to tip the scale in favor of one party over the other.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:55:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?
With the likes of Don Lemming, Wolf Blitzer, Rachel Maddow & co you can't believe a f**king word that comes out of their mouths.

Edit: I thought it was whitey responding and was going to express surprise at such an idiotic statement.

Carry on... ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 02, 2017, 12:07:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2017, 11:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

You're dead right....it's a sad day when The NY Times is just about as credible as Fox News.....blatantly lying and making shit up in order to tip the scale in favor of one party over the other.
You think Fox News lies and makes things up?!

Have you not got the memo?

Foxkkkommander states the following:

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

That's a pretty clear statement that all right-wing media is credible and trustworthy - so that's Fox News, Breitbart, Alex Jones and Infowars, the National Enquirer, Rush Limbaugh and the numerous other right-wing radio demagogues, and the numerous batshit crazy bloggers like Mike Cernovich and Paul Anthony Watson.

All are credible and trustworthy, says foxkkkommander.

And here you are shitting on Fox News.

It's terrible to see two marquee right-wing posters at each other's throats, blatantly off message and contradicting each other like this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 02, 2017, 12:08:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2017, 11:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

You're dead right....it's a sad day when The NY Times is just about as credible as Fox News.....blatantly lying and making shit up in order to tip the scale in favor of one party over the other.

A news organization can have an editorial slant and point of view/favoured perspective while still being credible.

Come back to us when Fox takes back/retracts even a sampling of the outright lies and bullshit they throw out daily.

Although, it looks like the younger Murdochs aren't quite as bereft of conscience as the auld fella...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

Oh. Sweet. Jesus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2017, 12:43:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2017, 12:08:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2017, 11:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

You're dead right....it's a sad day when The NY Times is just about as credible as Fox News.....blatantly lying and making shit up in order to tip the scale in favor of one party over the other.

A news organization can have an editorial slant and point of view/favoured perspective while still being credible.

Come back to us when Fox takes back/retracts even a sampling of the outright lies and bullshit they throw out daily.

Although, it looks like the younger Murdochs aren't quite as bereft of conscience as the auld fella...

Of course they can have "biases", but when the NY Times flat out makes shit up and actively colludes with the campaign of one candidate over another, then they have about as much credibilty as Fox News.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 02, 2017, 02:49:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2017, 12:43:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2017, 12:08:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2017, 11:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

You're dead right....it's a sad day when The NY Times is just about as credible as Fox News.....blatantly lying and making shit up in order to tip the scale in favor of one party over the other.

A news organization can have an editorial slant and point of view/favoured perspective while still being credible.

Come back to us when Fox takes back/retracts even a sampling of the outright lies and bullshit they throw out daily.

Although, it looks like the younger Murdochs aren't quite as bereft of conscience as the auld fella...

Of course they can have "biases", but when the NY Times flat out makes shit up and actively colludes with the campaign of one candidate over another, then they have about as much credibilty as Fox News.

What did they make up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2017, 03:41:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2017, 02:49:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2017, 12:43:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2017, 12:08:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2017, 11:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

You're dead right....it's a sad day when The NY Times is just about as credible as Fox News.....blatantly lying and making shit up in order to tip the scale in favor of one party over the other.

A news organization can have an editorial slant and point of view/favoured perspective while still being credible.

Come back to us when Fox takes back/retracts even a sampling of the outright lies and bullshit they throw out daily.

Although, it looks like the younger Murdochs aren't quite as bereft of conscience as the auld fella...

Of course they can have "biases", but when the NY Times flat out makes shit up and actively colludes with the campaign of one candidate over another, then they have about as much credibilty as Fox News.

What did they make up?

This is pretty scary (and scandalous) for a start

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-new-york-times-sandbagged-bernie-sanders-20160315
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on May 02, 2017, 03:56:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2017, 03:41:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2017, 02:49:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2017, 12:43:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2017, 12:08:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2017, 11:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

You're dead right....it's a sad day when The NY Times is just about as credible as Fox News.....blatantly lying and making shit up in order to tip the scale in favor of one party over the other.

A news organization can have an editorial slant and point of view/favoured perspective while still being credible.

Come back to us when Fox takes back/retracts even a sampling of the outright lies and bullshit they throw out daily.

Although, it looks like the younger Murdochs aren't quite as bereft of conscience as the auld fella...

Of course they can have "biases", but when the NY Times flat out makes shit up and actively colludes with the campaign of one candidate over another, then they have about as much credibilty as Fox News.

What did they make up?

This is pretty scary (and scandalous) for a start

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-new-york-times-sandbagged-bernie-sanders-20160315

I think you'll find it was the New York Times that broke the Clinton private server story - probably the one thing that caused her the election. The Rolling Stone magazine has long lost credibility in the news stakes. Even in music, it was bought by the record companies.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 08:22:32 AM
There wasn't one thing that sank Clinton.

She didn't connect with working class voters.
She was wooden.
She was arrogant.
She was not the best candidate.
She kept on insisting the economy was doing well
She underestimated Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

Oh. Sweet. Jesus.

So going by your reaction can I get a yes or no answer to the following question please (I don't require a vague rambling)

Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies?




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 02, 2017, 02:50:21 PM
The best way to Make America Great Again is a good 'ol Government shutdown!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

Oh. Sweet. Jesus.

So going by your reaction can I get a yes or no answer to the following question please (I don't require a vague rambling)

Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies?
They do of course but it's not fantasy like Fox
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

Oh. Sweet. Jesus.

So going by your reaction can I get a yes or no answer to the following question please (I don't require a vague rambling)

Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies?
They do of course but it's not fantasy like Fox

The question is for Eamon but thanks for playing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

Oh. Sweet. Jesus.

So going by your reaction can I get a yes or no answer to the following question please (I don't require a vague rambling)

Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies?
They do of course but it's not fantasy like Fox

The question is for Eamon but thanks for playing.
Is Fox credible ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 04:40:19 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/02/protestors-troll-pepsi-by-thowing-cans-at-police-during-may-day-demonstrations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 02, 2017, 04:48:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

Oh. Sweet. Jesus.

So going by your reaction can I get a yes or no answer to the following question please (I don't require a vague rambling)

Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies?
They do of course but it's not fantasy like Fox

The question is for Eamon but thanks for playing.

Don't be playing into this troll's hands. The right use this "false equivalency" BS continuously to justify their positions. It has been very effective, they have managed to cast centrist political views as being leftist. In a Fair and Balanced" way of course.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2017, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on May 02, 2017, 03:56:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2017, 03:41:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2017, 02:49:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2017, 12:43:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 02, 2017, 12:08:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2017, 11:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2017, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2017, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2017, 12:54:55 AM
Trump was a clown candidate (and still is a clown) but in an attempt to get Hillary elected the lame stream media gave him in the region of $5B in free advertising.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/30/breakingviews-trump-cold-shoulder-for-tv-ads-may-set-the-trend.html

(And it backfired spectacularly on them)

Speaking of clowns.  ::)

Haha......they must be fvcking furious with themselves.  Too cute by half, and now its all has come tumbling back on top of them.  The NY Times couldnt even accurately report on the Patriots trip to the White House without fvking up again

Well sure if its all about the media, why isn't the other half of the country up in arms over Fox, talk radio and all the rest of the cynical spoofers spreading lies and delusion from the perspective of the right? Why is it only the "lame stream media" who apparently wield such malign and self-defeating influence?

You're dead right....it's a sad day when The NY Times is just about as credible as Fox News.....blatantly lying and making shit up in order to tip the scale in favor of one party over the other.

A news organization can have an editorial slant and point of view/favoured perspective while still being credible.

Come back to us when Fox takes back/retracts even a sampling of the outright lies and bullshit they throw out daily.

Although, it looks like the younger Murdochs aren't quite as bereft of conscience as the auld fella...

Of course they can have "biases", but when the NY Times flat out makes shit up and actively colludes with the campaign of one candidate over another, then they have about as much credibilty as Fox News.

What did they make up?

This is pretty scary (and scandalous) for a start

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-new-york-times-sandbagged-bernie-sanders-20160315

I think you'll find it was the New York Times that broke the Clinton private server story - probably the one thing that caused her the election. The Rolling Stone magazine has long lost credibility in the news stakes. Even in music, it was bought by the record companies.

So because you do not hold Rolling Stone in high regard this "editing" that occurred is a non issue?

Fair enough, but how in Gods name can they hold themselves out as a legitimate NEWS outlet if they carry on like this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 04:48:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

Oh. Sweet. Jesus.

So going by your reaction can I get a yes or no answer to the following question please (I don't require a vague rambling)

Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies?
They do of course but it's not fantasy like Fox

The question is for Eamon but thanks for playing.

Don't be playing into this troll's hands. The right use this "false equivalency" BS continuously to justify their positions. It has been very effective, they have managed to cast centrist political views as being leftist. In a Fair and Balanced" way of course.

Troll? I've asked a straightforward question.
We have a difference of opinion so I want to see what he thinks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 05:42:13 PM
Oh I'm done playing this troll's games. He's obviously a WUM. Nobody could be that brainwashed by the right wing propaganda machine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 05:57:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 05:42:13 PM
Oh I'm done playing this troll's games. He's obviously a WUM. Nobody could be that brainwashed by the right wing propaganda machine.

It was a simple Yes or No


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 06:07:35 PM
Try holding your breath.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 06:15:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 06:07:35 PM
Try holding your breath.

Eamon - that's a fairly immature response. I'll give you another chance to answer. Just tell the truth (i thought that was the standard you hold yourself to)

Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies? Yes or No.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
*snore*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 07:38:10 PM
Foxy

spin this :
Donald J. Trump‏
@realDonaldTrump
either elect more Republican Senators in 2018 or change the rules now to 51%. Our country needs a good "shutdown" in September to fix mess!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 07:44:56 PM
Trump voter feels betrayed

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/859437833945194500
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 07:38:10 PM
Foxy

spin this :
Donald J. Trump‏
@realDonaldTrump
either elect more Republican Senators in 2018 or change the rules now to 51%. Our country needs a good "shutdown" in September to fix mess!

Rather than deflect how about asking Eamon to answer the question. It wasn't a difficult one.
I'm just looking for an honest answer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 07:53:43 PM
Uh oh

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/01/trump-civil-war-banks-korea-237859

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSDj9E2dgWs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 02, 2017, 09:53:47 PM
OK Foxy, you are a great man for picking out the less common sins of the center while you ignore the great snow job that Fox et all have done selling working people that tax cuts for the wealthy will create their next job. The constant drumbeat from the right on how "trickle down" economics is the true path to working people's wage increases when there is no evidence to support this. Fox et all skew the evidence, constantly misinform and mix in a wee bit of racism to convince poor white folks that not taxing wealthy people is good for them. The real failure of the lame stream media is giving this BS false equivalency. It set the stage for Trump's moronic and misinformed BS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 10:49:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

It was a yes or no question. Shall we take your avoidance as a yes?
I'm pretty certain that if you thought they told the truth all the time you would have said no immediately.

I thought you'd be a bigger man and just come clean. Disappointing. Sad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 02, 2017, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

Way to go Eamonn. Let's see what the Fox comes up with to debunk the Left Coast liberal viewpoint.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 02, 2017, 10:55:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 10:49:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

It was a yes or no question. Shall we take your avoidance as a yes?
I'm pretty certain that if you thought they told the truth all the time you would have said no immediately.

I thought you'd be a bigger man and just come clean. Disappointing. Sad.

When it comes to avoidance you are the master, cunning Fox
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 03, 2017, 01:20:38 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?

Oh. Sweet. Jesus.

So going by your reaction can I get a yes or no answer to the following question please (I don't require a vague rambling)

Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies?
This from the chap that has already said he thinks Breitbart, Alex Jones and Infowars and the National Enquirer are credible and trustworthy sources.

You can't make this shit up.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on May 03, 2017, 01:55:26 AM
Republican Congressman suggests poor people don't deserve healthcare for not leading 'good lives'

https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-congressman-suggests-poor-people-135208143.html

1st Sentence:
A Republican congressman has suggested that poorer Americans do not deserve affordable healthcare because they have not led "good lives" and so bring it on themselves when they get sick.

You have to love the Christian Right showing SO much compassion based on their religious up-bring  ::)



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 03, 2017, 03:13:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 09:53:47 PM
OK Foxy, you are a great man for picking out the less common sins of the center while you ignore the great snow job that Fox et all have done selling working people that tax cuts for the wealthy will create their next job. The constant drumbeat from the right on how "trickle down" economics is the true path to working people's wage increases when there is no evidence to support this. Fox et all skew the evidence, constantly misinform and mix in a wee bit of racism to convince poor white folks that not taxing wealthy people is good for them. The real failure of the lame stream media is giving this BS false equivalency. It set the stage for Trump's moronic and misinformed BS.

When a city/state like Chicago/IL is essentially bankrupt, my liberal family members point out that the reason there's no money for public education or public safety is that the "wealthy " aren't paying their fair share.   Read this and maybe you'll understand out why the private sector folks are sick to the teeth of funding a system with zero accountability

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-pat-quinn-idot-patronage-madigan-edit-0430-20170428-story,amp.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 03, 2017, 05:21:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 03, 2017, 03:13:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 09:53:47 PM
OK Foxy, you are a great man for picking out the less common sins of the center while you ignore the great snow job that Fox et all have done selling working people that tax cuts for the wealthy will create their next job. The constant drumbeat from the right on how "trickle down" economics is the true path to working people's wage increases when there is no evidence to support this. Fox et all skew the evidence, constantly misinform and mix in a wee bit of racism to convince poor white folks that not taxing wealthy people is good for them. The real failure of the lame stream media is giving this BS false equivalency. It set the stage for Trump's moronic and misinformed BS.

When a city/state like Chicago/IL is essentially bankrupt, my liberal family members point out that the reason there's no money for public education or public safety is that the "wealthy " aren't paying their fair share.   Read this and maybe you'll understand out why the private sector folks are sick to the teeth of funding a system with zero accountability

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-pat-quinn-idot-patronage-madigan-edit-0430-20170428-story,amp.html

That's a very sobering and disturbing read. Quinn's administration was appalling. I am equally opposed to corruption, incompetence and malfeasance. Quinn's administration was patently wrong but thank god not the way most of our State Governments are run. Also, It particularly disturbs me that Irish names appear all too frequently when stuff like this is occurs.
However you are missing the point. This country built the greatest engine for working class upward mobility on the back of a progressive tax system and intelligent infrastructure spending between the mid 1930's up to the Reagan administration. When Reagan introduced trickle down economics and started the starvation of infrastructure development, the wealthy still got richer but the working class started getting poorer. 
In intervening years from FDR's new deal until Reagan, wealthy people paid their taxes and got wealthier because back then; like Warren Buffett, they understood that paying people a decent wage and investing in the Country meant increased demand for the goods and services they were selling. The pie got bigger, Ergo they made more money and paid more taxes. Everybody did well. Regan changed all of that .. he convinced enough working people with a toxic mix of racism and the fantasy that they were all going to be taxed to death when they became millionaires; that Government was bad and paying taxes was even worse. Check the economic metrics for the US, 1935 to 1980 and compare to the same metrics from 1980 to date and you will see the stark difference in income growth for the working class.
So tell all your friends to vote for and support competent government officials who will invest their tax dollars in efficient growth oriented education, science and infrastructure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 06:25:19 AM
Conservatives think that the county will get wealthy if the vast majority of people are too poor to buy anything. They haven't the brains they were born with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 06:34:19 AM
Speaking of lies, just when you thought that the fact-averse right could not get any more evil in their ignorance and mental delusions, you read stuff like this:

QuoteSandy Hook father Lenny Pozner on death threats: 'I never imagined I'd have to fight for my child's legacy'

Noah was the youngest victim killed in the 2012 school massacre. His parent talks about dealing with the conspiracy theorists and hoaxers who have taunted him ever since.

Noah Pozner was reluctant to go to school that day. A mischievous little boy, who had celebrated his sixth birthday three weeks earlier, he stayed in bed too long and dragged his feet getting ready. "I said to him: 'Come on, Noah, we gotta get moving," his father, Leonard (usually known as Lenny) recalls, having thought about the morning of 14 December 2012 so often he can almost talk about it mechanically. But the drive was fun: Noah, his twin sister, Arielle, and older sister, Sophia, listened to Gangnam Style, one of Noah's favourite songs. Noah always sat in the back seat and Lenny tickled his ankle as he drove along. At school, Noah jumped out, his backpack in one hand, his jacket in the other. He was wearing a Batman shirt and Spider-Man trainers. "I said: 'I love you, have a great day,' and that was the last thing I ever said to him," says Pozner. After all, he adds, "Not even Batman could have stopped an AR-15."

Noah was the youngest victim of the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting, murdered about half an hour after his father dropped him off. A sweet-faced, big-eyed, brown-haired boy, his tiny body took multiple bullets. His jaw was blown off, as was his left hand, and his beloved Batman shirt was soaked with blood. For his funeral, his mother, Veronique, insisted he have an open casket.

"I want the world to see what they did to my baby," she said at the time.

Today, Pozner tries to look on the bright side. "I could have lost three kids that day because the other two were in rooms adjacent to Noah's classroom. They were all in the shooter's footprint."

Even in a country all too used to mass shootings, the merciless killing in Newtown, Connecticut of 20 six- and seven-year-olds, along with six of the school's employees, retains a terrible hold on the US's imagination, gripping the memory after too many other shootings have faded away. For most, it is too horrible to mention without a shudder. But for a tenacious few, it is too horrible to believe, and soon after Noah was killed, when Pozner thought he had already seen the worst of humanity, he came into contact with the latter group.

Just days after the massacre, when the US was still reeling from the tragedy, and Pozner himself was, he says, "pretty much in a catatonic state", the theories started spreading: Sandy Hook had never happened, it was staged by actors, the children had never existed, it was a ruse by President Obama/the anti-gun movement/the "New World Order global elitists". So-called Sandy Hook truthers – Pozner prefers the term hoaxer – pored over photos of the families and children on social media, triumphantly pointing to any visual similarities they could find between the dead children and living ones. The families were harassed by hoaxers, online and off, insisting that they stop their fake grieving. When Pozner roused himself from his catatonic grief to post photos of Noah online, hoaxers would leave comments: "Fake kid", "Didn't die", "f**king liar".

Play VideoPlay
Current Time 0:00
/
Duration Time 0:54
Loaded: 0%
Progress: 0%
FullscreenMute
Facebook Twitter Pinterest
Newtown buries first shooting victims
Pozner and I speak by phone. His voice is sad and heavy, but he talks easily. He and Veronique were separated at the time of the shooting, sharing custody of their kids. They reunited in the wake of Noah's death, but that soon fell apart. Pozner has moved half a dozen times since Noah's death, always staying near Veronique and their daughters, and is moving again soon after our interview. Partly, this is because each move is a new start, "and I need that sometimes", he says. But it is also because he has to keep ahead of the people who, for the past five years, have been sending him death threats, purely because his son was killed in Sandy Hook.

Arielle Pozner, Noah's sister, at Noah's grave.
Facebook Twitter Pinterest
Arielle Pozner, Noah's sister, at Noah's grave. Photograph: Courtesy Lenny Pozner
The week before our interview, a judge issued a warrant for the arrest of Lucy Richards. She is alleged to have sent messages to Pozner, including one that read: "Death is coming to you real soon and nothing you can do about it." That was bad, Pozner agrees, but not necessarily the most unsettling. After all, others have put photos of his house on the web and reported him to child-protection services. "This is the world I deal with now," says Pozner.

Advertisement

I started corresponding with Pozner in September 2016, after I read an article about him in a US magazine. He saw me tweeting about it and got in touch. I was surprised at how grateful he seemed for my sympathy about Noah. But then I remembered that he had spent countless hours dealing with people telling him that he should exhume his son's corpse to prove its existence. I told Pozner that, having lost someone in 9/11, I understood how painful it is for people to use your tragedy for their own self-indulgent obsession. He thanked me again.

Pozner himself used to be into conspiracy theories. When he lived in Connecticut, he often had to commute to New York and would listen to rightwing radio hosts such as Alex Jones and Michael Savage on the long drives. "I'm self-employed, an entrepreneur. I was always looking for more information so I could get an edge on the next guy, to get a better idea of the geopolitical perspective," Pozner says. Once he got used to Jones's "raspy voice" he liked him especially: "Alex Jones appears to think out of the box. He's entertaining."

Arguably, more than anyone, Jones is responsible for spreading the theory that the Sandy Hook massacre was fake. His radio shows and website, InfoWars.com, have an audience of more than eight million, and they specialise in the kind of conspiracies that had intrigued Pozner: was 9/11 an inside job? Was the US government involved in the Oklahoma City bombing?

On 27 January 2013, Jones told his audience: "In the last month and a half, I have not come out and said this was clearly a staged event. Unfortunately, evidence is beginning to come out that points more and more in that direction."

"I wasn't very verbal at that point, but I managed to send Alex Jones an email," says Pozner. He wrote: "Haven't we had our share of pain and suffering? I used to enjoy listening to your shows. Now I feel that your type of show created these hateful people and they need to be reeled in!"

He got a reply from Jones's assistant, who said: "Alex has no doubt this was a real tragedy." But Jones' thinking seemed to change. In 2015, he told his audience: "Sandy Hook is synthetic, completely fake, with actors; in my view, manufactured. I couldn't believe it at first. I knew they had actors there, clearly, but I thought they killed some real kids, and it just shows how bold they are, that they clearly used actors."

The year before InfoWars.com ran a story headlined: "FBI says no one killed at Sandy Hook."

The US has a long history of conspiracy theories. The majority of Americans today don't believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in killing John F Kennedy. Pozner says the Sandy Hook hoaxers are different because previously there were "no targets". I say this isn't quite right: John F Kennedy Jr found conspiracies about his father's assassination so painful, he would leave the room when people started swapping them over the dinner table, and those of us who knew people who died in 9/11 will have all had similar experiences. He clarifies and says what he means is that the most hardcore conspiracy theorists can now, thanks to the internet, easily track down and personally target those affected by the tragedy. But an even bigger change is that those who are promoting the most crackpot of theories are no longer relegated to the weird, dark fringe. Rather, they are swimming in the mainstream, thanks to one man in particular.

Police lead children from the Sandy Hook school in December 2012.
Facebook Twitter Pinterest
Police lead children from the Sandy Hook school in December 2012. Photograph: Shannon Hicks/AP
In 2015, Donald Trump went on to Alex Jones's show for a half-hour interview. At the end of the show, Trump said to the man who once claimed the government is putting chemicals into the water to turn people gay and stop them from having children: "I just want to finish by saying your reputation's amazing. I will not let you down, you will be very, very impressed, I hope. And I think we'll be speaking a lot ... You'll be very proud of our country."

Advertisement

Trump is very comfortable with conspiracy theorists. Steve Bannon, of course, made his name with Breitbart News, the conservative news website known for its hyped-up reporting of conspiracies. His original choice for national security adviser, General Mike Flynn, was notorious for tweeting conspiracy theories, such as that Hillary Clinton was involved with child-sex trafficking, and he claimed the Democrats wanted to impose sharia law in Florida. His adviser, Roger Stone, has claimed that Chelsea Clinton had multiple plastic surgeries as a teenager to disguise her true paternity. Trump's deputy campaign manager, David Bossie, made a 2008 documentary, Hillary: the Movie, which reported the allegation, among other things, that Hillary Clinton had the cat of a woman who made claims of sexual harassment against Bill Clinton killed.

Mike Cernovich is another conspiracy theorist who, by rights, should only be known among the most misogynistic and angry. He was one of those responsible for spreading the so-called "pizzagate" story, which claimed that Hillary Clinton and other top-level Democrats were running a child sex ring out of a pizza parlour in DC. In December, a man fired a rifle inside the restaurant, determined to find the alleged child sex slaves he had read about online. In early April, he published a blog claiming the former national security adviser Susan Rice had engaged in illegal surveillance activity. In fact, his blog revealed nothing more than that there were longstanding and well-known concerns about surveillance. Nonetheless, he received an endorsement from Trump's counsellor, Kellyanne Conway, and Donald Trump Jr tweeted: "Congrats to @Cernovich for breaking the #SusanRice story. In a long gone time of unbiased journalism he'd win the Pulitzer, but not today!"

And then there is Trump himself, a man whose greatest political triumph before winning the presidency was promoting the "birther" conspiracy theory, which revealed only Trump's apparent inability to believe black people can be born in the US. In the months since he was inaugurated, he has merrily promoted conspiracy theories with the enthusiasm of a devoted InfoWars fan. These have included: 3m votes in the election were cast illegally; the media is covering up acts of terrorism; Obama tapped his phone while president. Then there are his longstanding theories about vaccinations ("AUTISM") and climate change ("a hoax").

Earlier this year, the Newtown school board sent Trump a letter, asking him to denounce Alex Jones and the other Sandy Hook hoaxers, and to state definitively that Sandy Hook happened: "Jones repeatedly tells his listeners and viewers that he has your ears and your respect. He brags about how you called him after your victory in November. He continues to hurt the memories of those lost, the ability of those left behind to heal," the school's board wrote. Two months on, they have yet to receive a response.

Pozner says this doesn't bother him, not really: "I don't want to have anything to do with Donald Trump or the crowd he surrounds himself with."

Advertisement

I ask how he feels about stories such as pizzagate going mainstream. "It feels like I've been proven right – hoaxers need to be handled, not ignored. It's like a brushfire: you need to shape it and direct it. But if you leave it alone, it will burn down your forest, and it has reached all the way to the White House," he says.

Since 2014, when he started to engage with the world again, Pozner has been trying to shape his brushfire. At first, he tried to engage with the hoaxers and some, he found, were young mothers who simply couldn't allow themselves to believe someone could look a six-year-old in the eyes and shoot them in the head. Pozner had a lot of sympathy with them, as he felt the same way. Others, he says, are "just kids who get sucked into this world and they feel more confident about themselves, more certain, and they feed off the echo chamber of info, usually from websites. And they get taken in, hook, line and sinker." One such hoaxer recently posted a comment beneath one of the online tribute videos to Noah: "You criminals need to be boiled in faeces."

Pozner realised quickly that there was no point in arguing with these hoaxers, so instead he attacks through copyright law. Every day, he Googles Noah's name to see if anyone has put up a photo or video of his son without his permission and, if so, he files copyright claims. Thanks to Pozner's dedication and experience as an IT consultant, he has scrubbed Noah's search results of toxic-hoaxer content. He has sued other hoaxers for invasion of privacy, and successfully petitioned a Florida university to fire a professor, James Tracy, for hoaxing. (Tracy has sued for wrongful termination.) He also founded the HONR Network, which helps grieving families deal with online abuse, and it lobbies YouTube, Google and Facebook to stop hosting such abuse. It has also turned the tactics of some of the most persistent hoaxers on the hoaxers themselves, demanding they answer endless banal questions about their personal lives as if trying to catch them out, just as they do of the Sandy Hook families. Veronique, he says, supports his work, but she doesn't have the stomach for it herself. I ask if his campaign has been a means for him to channel his grief and anger about the death of his son.

"It may appear that way, but it's not a healing journey – it's taxing and draining, and I don't think there's a healing aspect to being drained this way. Maybe [I do this] because I was bullied when I was younger, so I have a low tolerance to being pushed around. But I never imagined I'd have to fight for my child's legacy. I never imagined life without any of the children at all."

Pozner says that, if he hadn't lost Noah, he might well have believed the pizzagate conspiracy: "I would not have been as immediately dismissive of it, that's for sure. History books will refer to this period as a time of mass delusion. We weren't prepared for the internet. We thought the internet would bring all these wonderful things, such as research, medicine, science, an accelerated society of good. But all we did was hold up a mirror to society and we saw how angry, sick and hateful humans can be."

So what can we do, I ask, now that more of us are realising we can't just ignore these people?

"It's too late, and things have gone too far. The whole Amazon is on fire. When I was dealing with these people in 2014 and 15, you could utilise their stories and turn them around. I don't know if you can even do that now," he says. "Lawmakers don't know how to deal with this. Police don't know how to police the internet, they haven't been trained, they just tell you to turn off the computer. And people who do police the internet, they are looking for credit card scams worth millions of dollars. For 4Chan trolls, this is their playground."

He pauses for a moment: "I used to be able to change the channel when stories about these kinds of people were on. I now don't have the luxury to do that, and when I lost Noah, I woke up and realised that people who spread these stories are more interested in propagating fear than getting at the truth. And the human cost of that is phenomenal."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

Way to go Eamonn. Let's see what the Fox comes up with to debunk the Left Coast liberal viewpoint.

You're celebrating the fact that Eamon is unwilling to tell the truth, much like the left/democrat media.
So much for his credibility.

It's funny how many lackeys are jumping to his defence rather than get him to answer the question.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 02:49:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2017, 10:49:19 PM
Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies?

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
Yes

See - that was easy! Well done Eamon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 03, 2017, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

Way to go Eamonn. Let's see what the Fox comes up with to debunk the Left Coast liberal viewpoint.

You're celebrating the fact that Eamon is unwilling to tell the truth, much like the left/democrat media.
So much for his credibility.

It's funny how many lackeys are jumping to his defence rather than get him to answer the question.

No celebration.. Just telling him to ignore your trolling prods. BTW you are not so quick to answer questions yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

Way to go Eamonn. Let's see what the Fox comes up with to debunk the Left Coast liberal viewpoint.

You're celebrating the fact that Eamon is unwilling to tell the truth, much like the left/democrat media.
So much for his credibility.

It's funny how many lackeys are jumping to his defence rather than get him to answer the question.

No celebration.. Just telling him to ignore your trolling prods. BTW you are not so quick to answer questions yourself.

I fail to see how asking a simple question is trolling.
If telling the truth is so hard for liberals/democrats then how can they claim to have the higher moral ground in the current circumstances.

Eamons relaying of his trump facts seems quite hypocritical if he's unable to tell the truth himself, no? He should give it a rest until he can admit that his side tells a few fibs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2017, 04:14:12 PM
Michael Moore on Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfRuA2-7XIw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 06:04:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 02:49:47 PM
I am the stupidest person ever to have lived.
See? I can edit your quotes too. Not difficult.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 06:06:40 PM
Have we lost the ignore feature? I want to put that Foxclown on ignore. I'm done looking at his conservative nonsense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 03, 2017, 06:08:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 05:21:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 03, 2017, 03:13:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 09:53:47 PM
OK Foxy, you are a great man for picking out the less common sins of the center while you ignore the great snow job that Fox et all have done selling working people that tax cuts for the wealthy will create their next job. The constant drumbeat from the right on how "trickle down" economics is the true path to working people's wage increases when there is no evidence to support this. Fox et all skew the evidence, constantly misinform and mix in a wee bit of racism to convince poor white folks that not taxing wealthy people is good for them. The real failure of the lame stream media is giving this BS false equivalency. It set the stage for Trump's moronic and misinformed BS.

When a city/state like Chicago/IL is essentially bankrupt, my liberal family members point out that the reason there's no money for public education or public safety is that the "wealthy " aren't paying their fair share.   Read this and maybe you'll understand out why the private sector folks are sick to the teeth of funding a system with zero accountability

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-pat-quinn-idot-patronage-madigan-edit-0430-20170428-story,amp.html

That's a very sobering and disturbing read. Quinn's administration was appalling. I am equally opposed to corruption, incompetence and malfeasance. Quinn's administration was patently wrong but thank god not the way most of our State Governments are run. Also, It particularly disturbs me that Irish names appear all too frequently when stuff like this is occurs.
However you are missing the point. This country built the greatest engine for working class upward mobility on the back of a progressive tax system and intelligent infrastructure spending between the mid 1930's up to the Reagan administration. When Reagan introduced trickle down economics and started the starvation of infrastructure development, the wealthy still got richer but the working class started getting poorer. 
In intervening years from FDR's new deal until Reagan, wealthy people paid their taxes and got wealthier because back then; like Warren Buffett, they understood that paying people a decent wage and investing in the Country meant increased demand for the goods and services they were selling. The pie got bigger, Ergo they made more money and paid more taxes. Everybody did well. Regan changed all of that .. he convinced enough working people with a toxic mix of racism and the fantasy that they were all going to be taxed to death when they became millionaires; that Government was bad and paying taxes was even worse. Check the economic metrics for the US, 1935 to 1980 and compare to the same metrics from 1980 to date and you will see the stark difference in income growth for the working class.
So tell all your friends to vote for and support competent government officials who will invest their tax dollars in efficient growth oriented education, science and infrastructure.

The point that you are missing is that in predominantly Democratic states the amount of waste and corruption is simply frightening.  So when conservatives like me baulk at paying even more tax, it's not that I hate poor people, sick kids or overworked teachers....I have no problem paying more tax if it actually goes to help the people it's earmarked for.....I have a problem when it's used to give useless lazy fvckers "do nothing" jobs because their second cousin is a state senator
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 06:18:01 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 06:06:40 PM
Have we lost the ignore feature? I want to put that Foxclown on ignore. I'm done looking at his conservative nonsense.

Seeing as you proudly boast about it you might want to amend your signature slightly to

Avoiding the real world in my headlights of justice

Sure - use the ignore button. Anything rather answer a simple question. Isn't this exactly the reason the US is polarised when you'd rather go this route than tell the truth.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 03, 2017, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 03, 2017, 06:08:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 05:21:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 03, 2017, 03:13:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 09:53:47 PM
OK Foxy, you are a great man for picking out the less common sins of the center while you ignore the great snow job that Fox et all have done selling working people that tax cuts for the wealthy will create their next job. The constant drumbeat from the right on how "trickle down" economics is the true path to working people's wage increases when there is no evidence to support this. Fox et all skew the evidence, constantly misinform and mix in a wee bit of racism to convince poor white folks that not taxing wealthy people is good for them. The real failure of the lame stream media is giving this BS false equivalency. It set the stage for Trump's moronic and misinformed BS.

When a city/state like Chicago/IL is essentially bankrupt, my liberal family members point out that the reason there's no money for public education or public safety is that the "wealthy " aren't paying their fair share.   Read this and maybe you'll understand out why the private sector folks are sick to the teeth of funding a system with zero accountability

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-pat-quinn-idot-patronage-madigan-edit-0430-20170428-story,amp.html

That's a very sobering and disturbing read. Quinn's administration was appalling. I am equally opposed to corruption, incompetence and malfeasance. Quinn's administration was patently wrong but thank god not the way most of our State Governments are run. Also, It particularly disturbs me that Irish names appear all too frequently when stuff like this is occurs.
However you are missing the point. This country built the greatest engine for working class upward mobility on the back of a progressive tax system and intelligent infrastructure spending between the mid 1930's up to the Reagan administration. When Reagan introduced trickle down economics and started the starvation of infrastructure development, the wealthy still got richer but the working class started getting poorer. 
In intervening years from FDR's new deal until Reagan, wealthy people paid their taxes and got wealthier because back then; like Warren Buffett, they understood that paying people a decent wage and investing in the Country meant increased demand for the goods and services they were selling. The pie got bigger, Ergo they made more money and paid more taxes. Everybody did well. Regan changed all of that .. he convinced enough working people with a toxic mix of racism and the fantasy that they were all going to be taxed to death when they became millionaires; that Government was bad and paying taxes was even worse. Check the economic metrics for the US, 1935 to 1980 and compare to the same metrics from 1980 to date and you will see the stark difference in income growth for the working class.
So tell all your friends to vote for and support competent government officials who will invest their tax dollars in efficient growth oriented education, science and infrastructure.

The point that you are missing is that in predominantly Democratic states the amount of waste and corruption is simply frightening.  So when conservatives like me baulk at paying even more tax, it's not that I hate poor people, sick kids or overworked teachers....I have no problem paying more tax if it actually goes to help the people it's earmarked for.....I have a problem when it's used to give useless lazy fvckers "do nothing" jobs because their second cousin is a state senator

I do get the point, I am as opposed to lazy corrupt government officials as you.  But check it out and you will find that the democratic states subsidize the republican states and incompetence and corrupt greed swings both ways. The difference being, Republicans like to use it as their rationale for not paying taxes. Take a look at Kansas if you want to see the result of tax cuts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 03, 2017, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

Way to go Eamonn. Let's see what the Fox comes up with to debunk the Left Coast liberal viewpoint.

You're celebrating the fact that Eamon is unwilling to tell the truth, much like the left/democrat media.
So much for his credibility.

It's funny how many lackeys are jumping to his defence rather than get him to answer the question.

No celebration.. Just telling him to ignore your trolling prods. BTW you are not so quick to answer questions yourself.

I fail to see how asking a simple question is trolling.
If telling the truth is so hard for liberals/democrats then how can they claim to have the higher moral ground in the current circumstances.

Eamons relaying of his trump facts seems quite hypocritical if he's unable to tell the truth himself, no? He should give it a rest until he can admit that his side tells a few fibs

Ok let's change the language a little to see if we can get some consensus.
Question
Does the media left and right get in wrong?
I believe the answer is yes on both counts.
Now the real question is the degree to which they get it wrong and the degree to which they get it wrong when the facts demonstrate that they are wrong.
Discuss and please back up your position with hard evidence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 07:04:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

Way to go Eamonn. Let's see what the Fox comes up with to debunk the Left Coast liberal viewpoint.

You're celebrating the fact that Eamon is unwilling to tell the truth, much like the left/democrat media.
So much for his credibility.

It's funny how many lackeys are jumping to his defence rather than get him to answer the question.

No celebration.. Just telling him to ignore your trolling prods. BTW you are not so quick to answer questions yourself.

I fail to see how asking a simple question is trolling.
If telling the truth is so hard for liberals/democrats then how can they claim to have the higher moral ground in the current circumstances.

Eamons relaying of his trump facts seems quite hypocritical if he's unable to tell the truth himself, no? He should give it a rest until he can admit that his side tells a few fibs

Ok let's change the language a little to see if we can get some consensus.
Question
Does the media left and right get in wrong?
I believe the answer is yes on both counts.
Now the real question is the degree to which they get it wrong and the degree to which they get it wrong when the facts demonstrate that they are wrong.
Discuss and please back up your position with hard evidence.

Is this your fake account eamon?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 03, 2017, 07:07:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 07:04:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

Way to go Eamonn. Let's see what the Fox comes up with to debunk the Left Coast liberal viewpoint.

You're celebrating the fact that Eamon is unwilling to tell the truth, much like the left/democrat media.
So much for his credibility.

It's funny how many lackeys are jumping to his defence rather than get him to answer the question.

No celebration.. Just telling him to ignore your trolling prods. BTW you are not so quick to answer questions yourself.

I fail to see how asking a simple question is trolling.
If telling the truth is so hard for liberals/democrats then how can they claim to have the higher moral ground in the current circumstances.

Eamons relaying of his trump facts seems quite hypocritical if he's unable to tell the truth himself, no? He should give it a rest until he can admit that his side tells a few fibs

Ok let's change the language a little to see if we can get some consensus.
Question
Does the media left and right get in wrong?
I believe the answer is yes on both counts.
Now the real question is the degree to which they get it wrong and the degree to which they get it wrong when the facts demonstrate that they are wrong.
Discuss and please back up your position with hard evidence.

Is this your fake account eamon?

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you avoid every opportunity to discuss this rationally. You are a Troll.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 07:16:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 07:07:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 07:04:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
He basically wants me to admit that the NYT made a typo once therefore they're just as bad as the 60 lies-per-minute cranked out by Fox News and the racist fascist hatred spewing out of the radio from the AM dial. If he thinks I'm going to play his silly little game he can think again.

Way to go Eamonn. Let's see what the Fox comes up with to debunk the Left Coast liberal viewpoint.

You're celebrating the fact that Eamon is unwilling to tell the truth, much like the left/democrat media.
So much for his credibility.

It's funny how many lackeys are jumping to his defence rather than get him to answer the question.

No celebration.. Just telling him to ignore your trolling prods. BTW you are not so quick to answer questions yourself.

I fail to see how asking a simple question is trolling.
If telling the truth is so hard for liberals/democrats then how can they claim to have the higher moral ground in the current circumstances.

Eamons relaying of his trump facts seems quite hypocritical if he's unable to tell the truth himself, no? He should give it a rest until he can admit that his side tells a few fibs

Ok let's change the language a little to see if we can get some consensus.
Question
Does the media left and right get in wrong?
I believe the answer is yes on both counts.
Now the real question is the degree to which they get it wrong and the degree to which they get it wrong when the facts demonstrate that they are wrong.
Discuss and please back up your position with hard evidence.

Is this your fake account eamon?

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you avoid every opportunity to discuss this rationally. You are a Troll.

I'll wait for "Eamon" to respond to my query first. Calling names is a democrat tactic I see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 07:26:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 06:18:01 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 06:06:40 PM
Have we lost the ignore feature? I want to put that Foxclown on ignore. I'm done looking at his conservative nonsense.

Seeing as you proudly boast about it you might want to amend your signature slightly to

Avoiding the real world in my headlights of justice

Sure - use the ignore button. Anything rather answer a simple question. Isn't this exactly the reason the US is polarised when you'd rather go this route than tell the truth.

Truth? What would a conservative know about truth? What's the point in trying to reason with people like you, you amusingly stupid mucksavage?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 07:26:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 06:18:01 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 06:06:40 PM
Have we lost the ignore feature? I want to put that Foxclown on ignore. I'm done looking at his conservative nonsense.

Seeing as you proudly boast about it you might want to amend your signature slightly to

Avoiding the real world in my headlights of justice

Sure - use the ignore button. Anything rather answer a simple question. Isn't this exactly the reason the US is polarised when you'd rather go this route than tell the truth.

Truth? What would a conservative know about truth? What's the point in trying to reason with people like you, you amusingly stupid mucksavage?

How do you know you can't reason with someone if you refuse to be honest and talk to them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 03, 2017, 08:46:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 03, 2017, 04:14:12 PM
Michael Moore on Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfRuA2-7XIw
these 2 guys personally hate trump so much it's hard to take them too serious , I think trump may have sued Larry at one point .as regards the media fox are kinda pro trump ,CNN MSNBC basically slate him 24 hours a day , cbs abc pbs news also anti trump .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2017, 11:06:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2017, 08:46:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 03, 2017, 04:14:12 PM
Michael Moore on Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfRuA2-7XIw
these 2 guys personally hate trump so much it's hard to take them too serious , I think trump may have sued Larry at one point .as regards the media fox are kinda pro trump ,CNN MSNBC basically slate him 24 hours a day , cbs abc pbs news also anti trump .

Fox are "kinda pro-Trump"?? ;D

How are PBS news anti-Trump?

I'll grant you that CBS, at least on the national evening news, are doing a great job calling him on his nonsense. I would call that responsible journalism though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 11:33:33 PM
Trump tells a lie. The "mainstream media" report that he told a lie. Conservatives get bent out of shape about "mainstream media bias." They seem to think that the job of the media is to strike a balance between truth and lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 03, 2017, 11:39:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2017, 11:33:33 PM
Trump tells a lie. The "mainstream media" report that he told a lie. Conservatives get bent out of shape about "mainstream media bias." They seem to think that the job of the media is to strike a balance between truth and lies.

Speaking of lies eamon

Do the left/democrat media (CNN/MSNBC etc.) tell lies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?


I'll just leave this here again.

Probably the most stupid thing I've ever read on an INTERNET forum from undoubtedly the stupidest poster I've ever read on an INTERNET forum - foxkkkommander.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on May 04, 2017, 01:50:20 AM
Good man, Sid.  You have identified the most absurd post of the year.  It should be bronzed and framed.  Please, Sid, post it regularly as a reminder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 04, 2017, 05:57:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?


I'll just leave this here again.

Probably the most stupid thing I've ever read on an INTERNET forum from undoubtedly the stupidest poster I've ever read on an INTERNET forum - foxkkkommander.

its not even close siddy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2017, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 03, 2017, 06:08:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 03, 2017, 05:21:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 03, 2017, 03:13:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 02, 2017, 09:53:47 PM
OK Foxy, you are a great man for picking out the less common sins of the center while you ignore the great snow job that Fox et all have done selling working people that tax cuts for the wealthy will create their next job. The constant drumbeat from the right on how "trickle down" economics is the true path to working people's wage increases when there is no evidence to support this. Fox et all skew the evidence, constantly misinform and mix in a wee bit of racism to convince poor white folks that not taxing wealthy people is good for them. The real failure of the lame stream media is giving this BS false equivalency. It set the stage for Trump's moronic and misinformed BS.

When a city/state like Chicago/IL is essentially bankrupt, my liberal family members point out that the reason there's no money for public education or public safety is that the "wealthy " aren't paying their fair share.   Read this and maybe you'll understand out why the private sector folks are sick to the teeth of funding a system with zero accountability

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-pat-quinn-idot-patronage-madigan-edit-0430-20170428-story,amp.html

That's a very sobering and disturbing read. Quinn's administration was appalling. I am equally opposed to corruption, incompetence and malfeasance. Quinn's administration was patently wrong but thank god not the way most of our State Governments are run. Also, It particularly disturbs me that Irish names appear all too frequently when stuff like this is occurs.
However you are missing the point. This country built the greatest engine for working class upward mobility on the back of a progressive tax system and intelligent infrastructure spending between the mid 1930's up to the Reagan administration. When Reagan introduced trickle down economics and started the starvation of infrastructure development, the wealthy still got richer but the working class started getting poorer. 
In intervening years from FDR's new deal until Reagan, wealthy people paid their taxes and got wealthier because back then; like Warren Buffett, they understood that paying people a decent wage and investing in the Country meant increased demand for the goods and services they were selling. The pie got bigger, Ergo they made more money and paid more taxes. Everybody did well. Regan changed all of that .. he convinced enough working people with a toxic mix of racism and the fantasy that they were all going to be taxed to death when they became millionaires; that Government was bad and paying taxes was even worse. Check the economic metrics for the US, 1935 to 1980 and compare to the same metrics from 1980 to date and you will see the stark difference in income growth for the working class.
So tell all your friends to vote for and support competent government officials who will invest their tax dollars in efficient growth oriented education, science and infrastructure.

The point that you are missing is that in predominantly Democratic states the amount of waste and corruption is simply frightening.  So when conservatives like me baulk at paying even more tax, it's not that I hate poor people, sick kids or overworked teachers....I have no problem paying more tax if it actually goes to help the people it's earmarked for.....I have a problem when it's used to give useless lazy fvckers "do nothing" jobs because their second cousin is a state senator

I do get the point, I am as opposed to lazy corrupt government officials as you.  But check it out and you will find that the democratic states subsidize the republican states and incompetence and corrupt greed swings both ways. The difference being, Republicans like to use it as their rationale for not paying taxes. Take a look at Kansas if you want to see the result of tax cuts.

Believe whatever fairytales you want

Tax hikes alone aren't the solution.

im not for a moment claiming that Republicans have all the answers, but having lived only in blue states for the past 25 years, the levels of corruption and waste are simply mind blowing. Any attempt to curtail spending, and you're automatically in for a bout of "class warfare" aided and abetted by main stream medi

https://www.wtnh.com/2017/04/28/income-tax-revenue-collapses-malloy-says-taxing-the-rich-doesnt-work/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 04, 2017, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2017, 05:57:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?


I'll just leave this here again.

Probably the most stupid thing I've ever read on an INTERNET forum from undoubtedly the stupidest poster I've ever read on an INTERNET forum - foxkkkommander.

its not even close siddy.

There's a couple of posters with a crush on me...they can't tell the difference between a question and a statement ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 07:30:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 04, 2017, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2017, 05:57:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?


I'll just leave this here again.

Probably the most stupid thing I've ever read on an INTERNET forum from undoubtedly the stupidest poster I've ever read on an INTERNET forum - foxkkkommander.

its not even close siddy.

There's a couple of posters with a crush on me...they can't tell the difference between a question and a statement ;)
Every reasonable poster can see through you for what you are - a simpleton who can't help making a fool of himself every time he comments.

A bit like Mr. Trump, actually.

Hence you classing Breitbart, Alex Jones and the National Enquirer as credible and truthful sources.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2017, 07:43:48 PM
Healthcare is a car crash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNACy0To-9M
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2017, 08:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 07:30:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 04, 2017, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2017, 05:57:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?


I'll just leave this here again.

Probably the most stupid thing I've ever read on an INTERNET forum from undoubtedly the stupidest poster I've ever read on an INTERNET forum - foxkkkommander.

its not even close siddy.

There's a couple of posters with a crush on me...they can't tell the difference between a question and a statement ;)
Every reasonable poster can see through you for what you are - a simpleton who can't help making a fool of himself every time he comments.

A bit like Mr. Trump, actually.

Hence you classing Breitbart, Alex Jones and the National Enquirer as credible and truthful sources.

At this stage they are about as credible as The NY Times or CNN.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2017, 08:09:33 PM
American decline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzusJCkwV7Q 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 08:34:27 PM
http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/05/under-new-healthcare-bill-rape-is-a-pre-existing-condition.html

In Trump's America, Rape Is a Preexisting Condition

An amendment in the GOP health-care-reform bill will allow states to deny coverage for preexisting conditions, including sexual assault.

Pre-Obamacare rape survivors who sought treatment for their injuries could be denied health care later on. Under Obamacare, preexisting conditions were guaranteed to receive coverage — among them, sexual assault. The American Health Care Act is going to change that.

The new MacArthur-Meadows Amendment will allow states to discriminate based on medical history, reportedly without addressing the subsequent high cost of health care for millions of Americans.

In addition to rape, postpartum depression, cesarean sections, and surviving domestic violence are all considered preexisting conditions. Companies can also deny coverage for gynecological services and mammograms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2017, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 08:34:27 PM
http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/05/under-new-healthcare-bill-rape-is-a-pre-existing-condition.html

In Trump's America, Rape Is a Preexisting Condition

An amendment in the GOP health-care-reform bill will allow states to deny coverage for preexisting conditions, including sexual assault.

Pre-Obamacare rape survivors who sought treatment for their injuries could be denied health care later on. Under Obamacare, preexisting conditions were guaranteed to receive coverage — among them, sexual assault. The American Health Care Act is going to change that.

The new MacArthur-Meadows Amendment will allow states to discriminate based on medical history, reportedly without addressing the subsequent high cost of health care for millions of Americans.

In addition to rape, postpartum depression, cesarean sections, and surviving domestic violence are all considered preexisting conditions. Companies can also deny coverage for gynecological services and mammograms.

At 4:46 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNACy0To-9M
there is a chart that shows the additional cost of a selection of pre existing conditions from 17K for pregnancy to 142K for metatastic cancers

Healthcare is almost one fiifth of the US economy. At least 5% of GDP is rent seeking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2017, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2017, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 08:34:27 PM
http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/05/under-new-healthcare-bill-rape-is-a-pre-existing-condition.html

In Trump's America, Rape Is a Preexisting Condition

An amendment in the GOP health-care-reform bill will allow states to deny coverage for preexisting conditions, including sexual assault.

Pre-Obamacare rape survivors who sought treatment for their injuries could be denied health care later on. Under Obamacare, preexisting conditions were guaranteed to receive coverage — among them, sexual assault. The American Health Care Act is going to change that.

The new MacArthur-Meadows Amendment will allow states to discriminate based on medical history, reportedly without addressing the subsequent high cost of health care for millions of Americans.

In addition to rape, postpartum depression, cesarean sections, and surviving domestic violence are all considered preexisting conditions. Companies can also deny coverage for gynecological services and mammograms.

At 4:46 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNACy0To-9M
there is a chart that shows the additional cost of a selection of pre existing conditions from 17K for pregnancy to 142K for metatastic cancers

Healthcare is almost one fiifth of the US economy. At least 5% of GDP is rent seeking.


Dont believe everything you read on the internet or see on TV......I believed a guy onetime who swore up and down that under Obamacare, our premiums were going to DECREASE and that we could keep BOTH our doctors and our plans if we liked them.  Want to hazard a guess as to how that one worked out?????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2017, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2017, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 08:34:27 PM
http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/05/under-new-healthcare-bill-rape-is-a-pre-existing-condition.html

In Trump's America, Rape Is a Preexisting Condition

An amendment in the GOP health-care-reform bill will allow states to deny coverage for preexisting conditions, including sexual assault.

Pre-Obamacare rape survivors who sought treatment for their injuries could be denied health care later on. Under Obamacare, preexisting conditions were guaranteed to receive coverage — among them, sexual assault. The American Health Care Act is going to change that.

The new MacArthur-Meadows Amendment will allow states to discriminate based on medical history, reportedly without addressing the subsequent high cost of health care for millions of Americans.

In addition to rape, postpartum depression, cesarean sections, and surviving domestic violence are all considered preexisting conditions. Companies can also deny coverage for gynecological services and mammograms.

At 4:46 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNACy0To-9M
there is a chart that shows the additional cost of a selection of pre existing conditions from 17K for pregnancy to 142K for metatastic cancers

Healthcare is almost one fiifth of the US economy. At least 5% of GDP is rent seeking.


Dont believe everything you read on the internet or see on TV......I believed a guy onetime who swore up and down that under Obamacare, our premiums were going to DECREASE and that we could keep BOTH our doctors and our plans if we liked them.  Want to hazard a guess as to how that one worked out?????
Yes. Only believe what you watch or read in right-wing media.

Or something.

Nice anecdote, and all that. Pity it does precisely nothing to rebut the point.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2017, 09:55:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2017, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2017, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 08:34:27 PM
http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/05/under-new-healthcare-bill-rape-is-a-pre-existing-condition.html

In Trump's America, Rape Is a Preexisting Condition

An amendment in the GOP health-care-reform bill will allow states to deny coverage for preexisting conditions, including sexual assault.

Pre-Obamacare rape survivors who sought treatment for their injuries could be denied health care later on. Under Obamacare, preexisting conditions were guaranteed to receive coverage — among them, sexual assault. The American Health Care Act is going to change that.

The new MacArthur-Meadows Amendment will allow states to discriminate based on medical history, reportedly without addressing the subsequent high cost of health care for millions of Americans.

In addition to rape, postpartum depression, cesarean sections, and surviving domestic violence are all considered preexisting conditions. Companies can also deny coverage for gynecological services and mammograms.

At 4:46 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNACy0To-9M
there is a chart that shows the additional cost of a selection of pre existing conditions from 17K for pregnancy to 142K for metatastic cancers

Healthcare is almost one fiifth of the US economy. At least 5% of GDP is rent seeking.


Dont believe everything you read on the internet or see on TV......I believed a guy onetime who swore up and down that under Obamacare, our premiums were going to DECREASE and that we could keep BOTH our doctors and our plans if we liked them.  Want to hazard a guess as to how that one worked out?????
Between prisons and healthcare the US spends 1 in every 4 dollars.
Civilised countries spend half that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2017, 10:09:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2017, 09:55:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2017, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2017, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 08:34:27 PM
http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/05/under-new-healthcare-bill-rape-is-a-pre-existing-condition.html

In Trump's America, Rape Is a Preexisting Condition

An amendment in the GOP health-care-reform bill will allow states to deny coverage for preexisting conditions, including sexual assault.

Pre-Obamacare rape survivors who sought treatment for their injuries could be denied health care later on. Under Obamacare, preexisting conditions were guaranteed to receive coverage — among them, sexual assault. The American Health Care Act is going to change that.

The new MacArthur-Meadows Amendment will allow states to discriminate based on medical history, reportedly without addressing the subsequent high cost of health care for millions of Americans.

In addition to rape, postpartum depression, cesarean sections, and surviving domestic violence are all considered preexisting conditions. Companies can also deny coverage for gynecological services and mammograms.

At 4:46 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNACy0To-9M
there is a chart that shows the additional cost of a selection of pre existing conditions from 17K for pregnancy to 142K for metatastic cancers

Healthcare is almost one fiifth of the US economy. At least 5% of GDP is rent seeking.


Dont believe everything you read on the internet or see on TV......I believed a guy onetime who swore up and down that under Obamacare, our premiums were going to DECREASE and that we could keep BOTH our doctors and our plans if we liked them.  Want to hazard a guess as to how that one worked out?????
Between prisons and healthcare the US spends 1 in every 4 dollars.
Civilised countries spend half that

It's a disgrace....the amount of wealth that is generated in this country is truly remarkable. The priorities are all wrong. 

I was in Chicago last week for work and this story was all over the news......how in Gods name does something like this happen in a civilized country.....I guess if you're not white the system just doesn't work for you

https://www.google.com/amp/chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/04/28/semaj-crosby-home-uninhabitable-death-investigation/amp/



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2017, 11:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2017, 08:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 07:30:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 04, 2017, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2017, 05:57:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?


I'll just leave this here again.

Probably the most stupid thing I've ever read on an INTERNET forum from undoubtedly the stupidest poster I've ever read on an INTERNET forum - foxkkkommander.

its not even close siddy.

There's a couple of posters with a crush on me...they can't tell the difference between a question and a statement ;)
Every reasonable poster can see through you for what you are - a simpleton who can't help making a fool of himself every time he comments.

A bit like Mr. Trump, actually.

Hence you classing Breitbart, Alex Jones and the National Enquirer as credible and truthful sources.

At this stage they are about as credible as The NY Times or CNN.

;D :o

So I'll be the one to ask then: just who are your "credible" news sources, whitey, if Infowars or Breitbart or the National Enquirer on a par with The NY Times?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
Morning Joe on healthcare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXln5VV1T8A
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 05, 2017, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
Morning Joe on healthcare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXln5VV1T8A

MSNBC ffs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2017, 04:24:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2017, 11:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2017, 08:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 07:30:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 04, 2017, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2017, 05:57:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 04, 2017, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2017, 11:25:55 PM

Maybe because the lies and delusion are exclusive to the left/democrat media?


I'll just leave this here again.

Probably the most stupid thing I've ever read on an INTERNET forum from undoubtedly the stupidest poster I've ever read on an INTERNET forum - foxkkkommander.

its not even close siddy.

There's a couple of posters with a crush on me...they can't tell the difference between a question and a statement ;)
Every reasonable poster can see through you for what you are - a simpleton who can't help making a fool of himself every time he comments.

A bit like Mr. Trump, actually.

Hence you classing Breitbart, Alex Jones and the National Enquirer as credible and truthful sources.

At this stage they are about as credible as The NY Times or CNN.

;D :o

So I'll be the one to ask then: just who are your "credible" news sources, whitey, if Infowars or Breitbart or the National Enquirer on a par with The NY Times?

Haha...I would say the WSJ and MSNBC's Morning Joe are probably the 2 best and most credible news sources at this point in time.

  NY Times destroyed their reputation this election cycle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 05, 2017, 05:11:09 PM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2017, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
Morning Joe on healthcare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXln5VV1T8A

MSNBC ffs.

MSNBC Credible...lol.

Just to recap - their unbiased host Rachel Madcow and her pals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LabloPDPtLg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw

Fake news!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 05:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2017, 05:11:09 PM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2017, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
Morning Joe on healthcare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXln5VV1T8A

MSNBC ffs.

MSNBC Credible...lol.

Just to recap - their unbiased host Rachel Madcow and her pals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LabloPDPtLg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw

Fake news!
24 m people without coverage and pre existing conditions are back to fund tax cuts for the ultra rich.
the GOP is going to be hammered in 2018
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2017, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
Morning Joe on healthcare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXln5VV1T8A

MSNBC ffs.

What did former conservative GOP congressman Scarborough say that you find so ridiculous?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2017, 05:21:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 05:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2017, 05:11:09 PM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2017, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
Morning Joe on healthcare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXln5VV1T8A

MSNBC ffs.

MSNBC Credible...lol.

Just to recap - their unbiased host Rachel Madcow and her pals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LabloPDPtLg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw

Fake news!
24 m people without coverage and pre existing conditions are back to fund tax cuts for the ultra rich.
the GOP is going to be hammered in 2018

It's probably going to be a wash......how many millions who already had insurance BEFORE Obamacare ended up with unaffordable premiums and ridiculous deductibles AFTER Obamacare.

To quote Bill Clinton..."it's the craziest thing ever.....people humping it 60 hours a week....their premiums have doubled and their coverage age has been cut in half"

Professor Gruber, the architect of the plan said that it was drawn up and written in a "tortured" manner because if the American people actually knew how it would work they'd NEVER support it.

I may be wrong but it's wishful thinking by Democrats to think that this will lead to a landslide in 2018
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 05:50:31 PM
Trump is an idiot

https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/525522/how-the-obamacare-repeal-could-cost-republicans-the-house/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 05:58:49 PM
Mikel Jollett‏

 @Mikel_Jollett  22 h

The AHCA is a TRILLION dollar tax cut, ALL OF WHICH goes to the top 2%.

It's paid for by taking away health care from the bottom 40%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 06:03:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2017, 05:21:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 05:12:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2017, 05:11:09 PM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2017, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
Morning Joe on healthcare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXln5VV1T8A

MSNBC ffs.

MSNBC Credible...lol.

Just to recap - their unbiased host Rachel Madcow and her pals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LabloPDPtLg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw

Fake news!
24 m people without coverage and pre existing conditions are back to fund tax cuts for the ultra rich.
the GOP is going to be hammered in 2018

It's probably going to be a wash......how many millions who already had insurance BEFORE Obamacare ended up with unaffordable premiums and ridiculous deductibles AFTER Obamacare.

To quote Bill Clinton..."it's the craziest thing ever.....people humping it 60 hours a week....their premiums have doubled and their coverage age has been cut in half"

Professor Gruber, the architect of the plan said that it was drawn up and written in a "tortured" manner because if the American people actually knew how it would work they'd NEVER support it.

I may be wrong but it's wishful thinking by Democrats to think that this will lead to a landslide in 2018
A lot of the 24m who will lose coverage will know this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2017, 06:27:09 PM
But will 24 M actually lose coverage?

All the expert talking heads said that the average family's health insurance would decrease by $2500 under Obamacare and they were flat out wrong about that (and a lot of other stuff too)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 06:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2017, 06:27:09 PM
But will 24 M actually lose coverage?

All the expert talking heads said that the average family's health insurance would decrease by $2500 under Obamacare and they were flat out wrong about that (and a lot of other stuff too)
According to the CBO report.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 05, 2017, 06:51:34 PM
Whitey,
Let's go ahead and call bull shit right now

No one has read the bill and had time to do an assessment of the impact of the bill. This is an absolute disgrace that a bill so meaningful to the poor of the US has been passed sight unseen on order for Republicans to fulfil the repeal obamacare election promises.

The language in there about preexisting conditions and states rights are abysmal. The "religious freedom" aspect is a disgrace to human rights standards​ anywhere and the parcelled tax rebates for the 0.01% are shameful.

Seth Myers rip on Paul Ryan vs Paul Ryan is a humorous take on the hypocrisy of the whole thing, but let's be clear, no vote on that bill should ever have happened.

Careful what you wish for...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2017, 07:04:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 06:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2017, 06:27:09 PM
But will 24 M actually lose coverage?

All the expert talking heads said that the average family's health insurance would decrease by $2500 under Obamacare and they were flat out wrong about that (and a lot of other stuff too)
According to the CBO report.

What did the CBO report say about Obamacare?   Was it accurate?

I also understand that the new bill was not "scored" by The CBO......what relevance does that have for the projections you are quoting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2017, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 05, 2017, 06:51:34 PM
Whitey,
Let's go ahead and call bull shit right now

No one has read the bill and had time to do an assessment of the impact of the bill. This is an absolute disgrace that a bill so meaningful to the poor of the US has been passed sight unseen on order for Republicans to fulfil the repeal obamacare election promises.

The language in there about preexisting conditions and states rights are abysmal. The "religious freedom" aspect is a disgrace to human rights standards​ anywhere and the parcelled tax rebates for the 0.01% are shameful.

Seth Myers rip on Paul Ryan vs Paul Ryan is a humorous take on the hypocrisy of the whole thing, but let's be clear, no vote on that bill should ever have happened.

Careful what you wish for...

I would prefer them to get it right rather than rush it through.....that being said.....the bill its replacing has been an absolute abomination....it's not like that hey are replacing a great bill with a terrible bill....it's more like they're replacing a terrible bill with a less terrible bill

And I have to laugh at the Dems with their hair on fire about no one reading the bill....what was it Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare again????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 05, 2017, 07:16:20 PM
Quoteit's not like that hey are replacing a great bill with a terrible bill....it's more like they're replacing a terrible bill with a less terrible bill

"Likely" I'm not sure that word means what you think it does.

The terrible bill that gave people Heath are is being replaced by one that removes it.

I'm not sure you understand the word terrible either. Or do you mean from your own perspective rather than for the benefit of the entire country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 07:21:57 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 05, 2017, 06:51:34 PM
Whitey,
Let's go ahead and call bull shit right now

No one has read the bill and had time to do an assessment of the impact of the bill. This is an absolute disgrace that a bill so meaningful to the poor of the US has been passed sight unseen on order for Republicans to fulfil the repeal obamacare election promises.

The language in there about preexisting conditions and states rights are abysmal. The "religious freedom" aspect is a disgrace to human rights standards​ anywhere and the parcelled tax rebates for the 0.01% are shameful.

Seth Myers rip on Paul Ryan vs Paul Ryan is a humorous take on the hypocrisy of the whole thing, but let's be clear, no vote on that bill should ever have happened.

Careful what you wish for...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/05/04/every-republican-who-voted-for-this-abomination-must-be-held-accountable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2017, 07:31:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 05, 2017, 07:16:20 PM
Quoteit's not like that hey are replacing a great bill with a terrible bill....it's more like they're replacing a terrible bill with a less terrible bill

"Likely" I'm not sure that word means what you think it does.

The terrible bill that gave people Heath are is being replaced by one that removes it.

I'm not sure you understand the word terrible either. Or do you mean from your own perspective rather than for the benefit of the entire country.

Terrible would describe the experience of my self employed clients and friends whose premiums have skyrocketed from $17k per year to $28k per year with a $6k deductible tacked on for good measure....you know....like the people who Bill Clinton described as "humping it 60 hours a week whose premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half...its the craziest thing in the world"

What you and all the progressives seem to be missing or ignoring is that Obamacare was collapsing in on top of itself

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/08/16/is-it-time-to-acknowledge-that-obamacare-is-collapsing/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2017, 07:31:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 05, 2017, 07:16:20 PM
Quoteit's not like that hey are replacing a great bill with a terrible bill....it's more like they're replacing a terrible bill with a less terrible bill

"Likely" I'm not sure that word means what you think it does.

The terrible bill that gave people Heath are is being replaced by one that removes it.

I'm not sure you understand the word terrible either. Or do you mean from your own perspective rather than for the benefit of the entire country.

Terrible would describe the experience of my self employed clients and friends whose premiums have skyrocketed from $17k per year to $28k per year with a $6k deductible tacked on for good measure....you know....like the people who Bill Clinton described as "humping it 60 hours a week whose premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half...its the craziest thing in the world"

What you and all the progressives seem to be missing or ignoring is that Obamacare was collapsing in on top of itself

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/08/16/is-it-time-to-acknowledge-that-obamacare-is-collapsing/amp/

The healthcare system is broken. 17.1% of GDP and it is growing faster than the economy.
So should hit 25% of GDP at some stage. FFS

The system needs to be destroyed and started over. At least 4%  of GDP is rent seeking by pharma, doctors, hospitals.
That 4% could be used to reform corporate tax or get a fiscal boost going.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 08:49:57 PM
For Foxy

@kurteichenwald  You know, when hospitals, insurers, the AARP and other pros all say Trumpcare will kill people, it's always good to turn to Fox News 4 lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 06, 2017, 12:51:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2017, 07:31:08 PM


Terrible would describe the experience of my self employed clients and friends whose premiums have skyrocketed from $17k per year to $28k per year with a $6k deductible tacked on for good measure....you know....like the people who Bill Clinton described as "humping it 60 hours a week whose premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half...its the craziest thing in the world"

What you and all the progressives seem to be missing or ignoring is that Obamacare was collapsing in on top of itself

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/08/16/is-it-time-to-acknowledge-that-obamacare-is-collapsing/amp/

Whitey,
I have a lot of experience with this, my own family healthcare premiums doubled from 18k to 36k annually, and add in a a 10k deductible "for good measure" when i was self employed. That includes coverage of a highly medical dependent child with a "pre-existing condition".

A significantly higher coverage for my family is now provided by my employer for less than 8k per annum.

You can call it terrible, (or in my words a f**king disgrace) but my view of terrible is a possibility of significant amount of people in the US completely losing their coverage, and those that do pay for coverage having it denied on the whim of an insurance policy that it is very unlikely that they fully understand when they buy it. The ACA brought significantly improved economics to the entire United States, but the lobbyists will not tolerate the changes that are required to improve the heath care system in the US.

Do you think the problem is the bill that supports healthcare for all, or the structure that allows that differential to occur?

The new bill that has passed the house has a fair chance of being a huge tax credit for the richest americans at the expense of the poorest. Now both sides will spin the shite out of this, but I think that the Republicans will pay a huge price for this in the next elections.

It is the myth perpetuated by the self employed that the ACA screws them, the fact is no-one is lobbying for the self employed and as a result they bear the brunt of the tax law. When they get successful, they contribute to politicians and get looked after but by that point they are a corporate entity and they don't look back...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...
Whitey , Trump.promised to fix healthcare. He promised to take on the lobbies.
Louisiana voted Trump and 30% of people have pre existing conditions. This is the real wold. When people start dying Hannity won't be able to.bring them back to life.  Alex Jones won't be able to blame liberals.   

  The base rejected all the Koch candidates because Trump listened to them. . But it is still.the rent seekers versus everybody else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 11:00:17 AM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/05/05/health-care-score-republicans-1-americans-0-andy-slavitt-column/101326472/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...
Whitey , Trump.promised to fix healthcare. He promised to take on the lobbies.
Louisiana voted Trump and 30% of people have pre existing conditions. This is the real wold. When people start dying Hannity won't be able to.bring them back to life.  Alex Jones won't be able to blame liberals.   

  The base rejected all the Koch candidates because Trump listened to them. . But it is still.the rent seekers versus everybody else.

It's all politics......was Obamacare as great as Democrats claimed it was? Absolutely not. There were serious flaws in the design, implementation and pricing of Obamacare

On the other hand was Obamacare as big a disaster as Republicans claimed it was? Absolutely not!  Some parts of the law worked great and were actually quite popular across the political divide.

It's exactly the same with this new plan....just the shoe is on the other foot.....the plan will be nowhere near as bad as Democrats claim, nor will it be as great as the Republicans claim
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 12:39:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...
Whitey , Trump.promised to fix healthcare. He promised to take on the lobbies.
Louisiana voted Trump and 30% of people have pre existing conditions. This is the real wold. When people start dying Hannity won't be able to.bring them back to life.  Alex Jones won't be able to blame liberals.   

  The base rejected all the Koch candidates because Trump listened to them. . But it is still.the rent seekers versus everybody else.

It's all politics......was Obamacare as great as Democrats claimed it was? Absolutely not. There were serious flaws in the design, implementation and pricing of Obamacare

On the other hand was Obamacare as big a disaster as Republicans claimed it was? Absolutely not!  Some parts of the law worked great and were actually quite popular across the political divide.

It's exactly the same with this new plan....just the shoe is on the other foot.....the plan will be nowhere near as bad as Democrats claim, nor will it be as great as the Republicans claim
Single payer is the only way forward

The collective principle asserts that... no society can legitimately call itself civilised if a sick person is denied medical aid because of lack of means. — Aneurin Bevan, In Place of Fear, p. 100

I think a lot of people will have to die needlessly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmWWoMcGmo0

before healthcare is reformed coherently. Obamacare was better than Swampcare but it was no solution. 



http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2009/07/02/the-health-reform-we-need-are-not-getting/
As bad as they already are, things will have to get still worse before major reform becomes politically possible. The legislation likely to emerge from this Congress will not control—and will probably even exacerbate—the inflation of costs. But sometime in the not-too- distant future, health expenditures will become intolerable and fundamental change will at last be accepted as the only way to avoid disaster. When that time arrives, the opportunity to enact real health reform will finally be at hand.
—June 3, 2009
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2017, 06:20:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2017, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 05, 2017, 06:51:34 PM
Whitey,
Let's go ahead and call bull shit right now

No one has read the bill and had time to do an assessment of the impact of the bill. This is an absolute disgrace that a bill so meaningful to the poor of the US has been passed sight unseen on order for Republicans to fulfil the repeal obamacare election promises.

The language in there about preexisting conditions and states rights are abysmal. The "religious freedom" aspect is a disgrace to human rights standards​ anywhere and the parcelled tax rebates for the 0.01% are shameful.

Seth Myers rip on Paul Ryan vs Paul Ryan is a humorous take on the hypocrisy of the whole thing, but let's be clear, no vote on that bill should ever have happened.

Careful what you wish for...

I would prefer them to get it right rather than rush it through.....that being said.....the bill its replacing has been an absolute abomination....it's not like that hey are replacing a great bill with a terrible bill....it's more like they're replacing a terrible bill with a less terrible bill

And I have to laugh at the Dems with their hair on fire about no one reading the bill....what was it Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare again????

What DID she say?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/pelosi-defends-her-infamous-health-care-remark/2012/06/20/gJQAqch6qV_blog.html?utm_term=.477863cdc9d4 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/pelosi-defends-her-infamous-health-care-remark/2012/06/20/gJQAqch6qV_blog.html?utm_term=.477863cdc9d4)

In what way is the new bill "less terrible"?

Who is it "less terrible" for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2017, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...
Whitey , Trump.promised to fix healthcare. He promised to take on the lobbies.
Louisiana voted Trump and 30% of people have pre existing conditions. This is the real wold. When people start dying Hannity won't be able to.bring them back to life.  Alex Jones won't be able to blame liberals.   

  The base rejected all the Koch candidates because Trump listened to them. . But it is still.the rent seekers versus everybody else.

It's all politics......was Obamacare as great as Democrats claimed it was? Absolutely not. There were serious flaws in the design, implementation and pricing of Obamacare

On the other hand was Obamacare as big a disaster as Republicans claimed it was? Absolutely not!  Some parts of the law worked great and were actually quite popular across the political divide.

It's exactly the same with this new plan....just the shoe is on the other foot.....the plan will be nowhere near as bad as Democrats claim, nor will it be as great as the Republicans claim

I guess it all depends on your perspective. If you are poor or have pre-existing conditions or need a lot of medical or surgical treatment, tough shit. If you're young and healthy or rich...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2017, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...
Whitey , Trump.promised to fix healthcare. He promised to take on the lobbies.
Louisiana voted Trump and 30% of people have pre existing conditions. This is the real wold. When people start dying Hannity won't be able to.bring them back to life.  Alex Jones won't be able to blame liberals.   

  The base rejected all the Koch candidates because Trump listened to them. . But it is still.the rent seekers versus everybody else.

It's all politics......was Obamacare as great as Democrats claimed it was? Absolutely not. There were serious flaws in the design, implementation and pricing of Obamacare

On the other hand was Obamacare as big a disaster as Republicans claimed it was? Absolutely not!  Some parts of the law worked great and were actually quite popular across the political divide.

It's exactly the same with this new plan....just the shoe is on the other foot.....the plan will be nowhere near as bad as Democrats claim, nor will it be as great as the Republicans claim

I guess it all depends on your perspective. If you are poor or have pre-existing conditions or need a lot of medical or surgical treatment, tough shit. If you're young and healthy or rich...

Fair enough....but how many of those people would have been covered by Medicaid pre Obamacare?

I know plenty of People with no health insurance who have gotten the best of care no questions asked

https://www.the42.ie/mark-mcgoverns-debt-mounting-daily-in-san-francisco-201583-Aug2011/%3Famp%3D1

You are just running with same old lazy generalizations that just aren't true in many real life situations

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 06, 2017, 09:42:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2017, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...
Whitey , Trump.promised to fix healthcare. He promised to take on the lobbies.
Louisiana voted Trump and 30% of people have pre existing conditions. This is the real wold. When people start dying Hannity won't be able to.bring them back to life.  Alex Jones won't be able to blame liberals.   

  The base rejected all the Koch candidates because Trump listened to them. . But it is still.the rent seekers versus everybody else.

It's all politics......was Obamacare as great as Democrats claimed it was? Absolutely not. There were serious flaws in the design, implementation and pricing of Obamacare

On the other hand was Obamacare as big a disaster as Republicans claimed it was? Absolutely not!  Some parts of the law worked great and were actually quite popular across the political divide.

It's exactly the same with this new plan....just the shoe is on the other foot.....the plan will be nowhere near as bad as Democrats claim, nor will it be as great as the Republicans claim

I guess it all depends on your perspective. If you are poor or have pre-existing conditions or need a lot of medical or surgical treatment, tough shit. If you're young and healthy or rich...

Fair enough....but how many of those people would have been covered by Medicaid pre Obamacare?

I know plenty of People with no health insurance who have gotten the best of care no questions asked

https://www.the42.ie/mark-mcgoverns-debt-mounting-daily-in-san-francisco-201583-Aug2011/%3Famp%3D1

You are just running with same old lazy generalizations that just aren't true in many real life situations

Whitey you live by the anecdote you die by the anecdote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2017, 09:45:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2017, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...
Whitey , Trump.promised to fix healthcare. He promised to take on the lobbies.
Louisiana voted Trump and 30% of people have pre existing conditions. This is the real wold. When people start dying Hannity won't be able to.bring them back to life.  Alex Jones won't be able to blame liberals.   

  The base rejected all the Koch candidates because Trump listened to them. . But it is still.the rent seekers versus everybody else.

It's all politics......was Obamacare as great as Democrats claimed it was? Absolutely not. There were serious flaws in the design, implementation and pricing of Obamacare

On the other hand was Obamacare as big a disaster as Republicans claimed it was? Absolutely not!  Some parts of the law worked great and were actually quite popular across the political divide.

It's exactly the same with this new plan....just the shoe is on the other foot.....the plan will be nowhere near as bad as Democrats claim, nor will it be as great as the Republicans claim

I guess it all depends on your perspective. If you are poor or have pre-existing conditions or need a lot of medical or surgical treatment, tough shit. If you're young and healthy or rich...

Fair enough....but how many of those people would have been covered by Medicaid pre Obamacare?

I know plenty of People with no health insurance who have gotten the best of care no questions asked

https://www.the42.ie/mark-mcgoverns-debt-mounting-daily-in-san-francisco-201583-Aug2011/%3Famp%3D1

You are just running with same old lazy generalizations that just aren't true in many real life situations

How does McGovern's case support your perspective? Are you saying its all right to go without insurance because in an absolute emergency, the hospital will have to treat you first and try to recover the costs later? Do you think they're just going to swallow those costs? I lived with a lad who got $30K worth of treatment after a road accident and ending up skipping the country to go back home, permanently, because he couldn't pay them. Is that a sustainable system. BTW, I never said they wouldn't get emergency care.

But, assuming I am full of shit, tell us why the GOP wants to strip the protections for pre-existing conditions and minimum standards for policies and reintroduce caps on pay-outs and repeal subsidies and so forth, all while repealing the Obamacare taxes on the wealthy, if NOT to shift the burden back on to the less well off, both medically and financially?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 06, 2017, 09:42:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2017, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...
Whitey , Trump.promised to fix healthcare. He promised to take on the lobbies.
Louisiana voted Trump and 30% of people have pre existing conditions. This is the real wold. When people start dying Hannity won't be able to.bring them back to life.  Alex Jones won't be able to blame liberals.   

  The base rejected all the Koch candidates because Trump listened to them. . But it is still.the rent seekers versus everybody else.

It's all politics......was Obamacare as great as Democrats claimed it was? Absolutely not. There were serious flaws in the design, implementation and pricing of Obamacare

On the other hand was Obamacare as big a disaster as Republicans claimed it was? Absolutely not!  Some parts of the law worked great and were actually quite popular across the political divide.

It's exactly the same with this new plan....just the shoe is on the other foot.....the plan will be nowhere near as bad as Democrats claim, nor will it be as great as the Republicans claim

I guess it all depends on your perspective. If you are poor or have pre-existing conditions or need a lot of medical or surgical treatment, tough shit. If you're young and healthy or rich...

Fair enough....but how many of those people would have been covered by Medicaid pre Obamacare?

I know plenty of People with no health insurance who have gotten the best of care no questions asked

https://www.the42.ie/mark-mcgoverns-debt-mounting-daily-in-san-francisco-201583-Aug2011/%3Famp%3D1

You are just running with same old lazy generalizations that just aren't true in many real life situations

Whitey you live by the anecdote you die by the anecdote.

Well I once lived with lads who were undocumented and at various points they had to visit the ER for a vAriety of ailments.....none of them paid a penny.  I shared the one about the lad from Fermanagh because it's one most people on here would be familiar with (and listening to J70 you'd think that people without insurance were getting turned away at the door of the hospital, which simply is untrue)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 10:41:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2017, 09:45:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2017, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2017, 02:29:57 AM
The whole thing is a fvckin disgrace.....whether its Obamacare or Trumpcare. The healthcare system here is a complete shambles.  I have always worked for big companies, so I have never had to pay the huge premiums you mention for healthcare, but all my clients are self employed and theyre getting completely fvcked under Obamacare.

Everyone in the country should have some basic health insurance, but Obama shifted the burden of paying for it onto people who are already squeezed to breaking point. He was elected to repeal it and thats what he did...
Whitey , Trump.promised to fix healthcare. He promised to take on the lobbies.
Louisiana voted Trump and 30% of people have pre existing conditions. This is the real wold. When people start dying Hannity won't be able to.bring them back to life.  Alex Jones won't be able to blame liberals.   

  The base rejected all the Koch candidates because Trump listened to them. . But it is still.the rent seekers versus everybody else.

It's all politics......was Obamacare as great as Democrats claimed it was? Absolutely not. There were serious flaws in the design, implementation and pricing of Obamacare

On the other hand was Obamacare as big a disaster as Republicans claimed it was? Absolutely not!  Some parts of the law worked great and were actually quite popular across the political divide.

It's exactly the same with this new plan....just the shoe is on the other foot.....the plan will be nowhere near as bad as Democrats claim, nor will it be as great as the Republicans claim

I guess it all depends on your perspective. If you are poor or have pre-existing conditions or need a lot of medical or surgical treatment, tough shit. If you're young and healthy or rich...

Fair enough....but how many of those people would have been covered by Medicaid pre Obamacare?

I know plenty of People with no health insurance who have gotten the best of care no questions asked

https://www.the42.ie/mark-mcgoverns-debt-mounting-daily-in-san-francisco-201583-Aug2011/%3Famp%3D1

You are just running with same old lazy generalizations that just aren't true in many real life situations

How does McGovern's case support your perspective? Are you saying its all right to go without insurance because in an absolute emergency, the hospital will have to treat you first and try to recover the costs later? Do you think they're just going to swallow those costs? I lived with a lad who got $30K worth of treatment after a road accident and ending up skipping the country to go back home, permanently, because he couldn't pay them. Is that a sustainable system. BTW, I never said they wouldn't get emergency care.

But, assuming I am full of shit, tell us why the GOP wants to strip the protections for pre-existing conditions and minimum standards for policies and reintroduce caps on pay-outs and repeal subsidies and so forth, all while repealing the Obamacare taxes on the wealthy, if NOT to shift the burden back on to the less well off, both medically and financially?

What you are/were implying is that Pre Obamacare, those without insurance could not get access to healthcare.....that is simply untrue. The McGovern case is just an example I shared because most people here would be familiar with the story.  That lad got the best care in the world with no questions asked with regard to insurance or legal status.  (And I haven't heard any stories about his family getting chased for the money)

From what I've read, very few people if any will lose their insurance under the new plan.  From what you've read tens of millions will lose their insurance....I'm assuming best case scenario because I'm a conservative, you're assuming the worst case scenario because you're a progressive.

Im sure the truth will be somewhere in between
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2017, 07:22:58 AM
"From what I've read, very few people if any will lose their insurance under the new plan.  "

GOP people have been asked about pre existing conditions and keep on repeating an idea about  layers of protection. AND they got 8bn dollars extra.  It sounds like a lot. If you are gullible. But US healthcare costs around 1 in 5 dollars of everything spent in the US.

The whole point of the AHCA is to free up money for a tax cut for Scrooge McDuck. $800 bn

Obviously nobody will lose coverage because there is $8 bn and the GOP promised.

Healthcare is a life or death issue for the GOP now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 07, 2017, 09:14:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2017, 07:22:58 AM
"From what I've read, very few people if any will lose their insurance under the new plan.  "

GOP people have been asked about pre existing conditions and keep on repeating an idea about  layers of protection. AND they got 8bn dollars extra.  It sounds like a lot. If you are gullible. But US healthcare costs around 1 in 5 dollars of everything spent in the US.

The whole point of the AHCA is to free up money for a tax cut for Scrooge McDuck. $800 bn

Obviously nobody will lose coverage because there is $8 bn and the GOP promised.

Healthcare is a life or death issue for the GOP now.

If Trump fucks over the people regarding healthcare I hope he and the GOP lose their collective asses in the upcoming election seasons, I have serious reservations about their commitment to this biggest of issues.

That America is in the awful shape it is in health care wise is testament to the ineptitude and apathy of both parties, Obama aside that is, he got it wrong but at least he tried.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2017, 09:34:47 AM
The one thing that Obamacare did was improve public support for single payer healthcare. There is now a majority of Americans in favour  including most GOP voters earning less than 30K.
SPH is a lot more efficient than the current system.
The money saved could be used for tax cuts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 07, 2017, 12:11:15 PM
Quote from: stew on May 07, 2017, 09:14:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2017, 07:22:58 AM
"From what I've read, very few people if any will lose their insurance under the new plan.  "

GOP people have been asked about pre existing conditions and keep on repeating an idea about  layers of protection. AND they got 8bn dollars extra.  It sounds like a lot. If you are gullible. But US healthcare costs around 1 in 5 dollars of everything spent in the US.

The whole point of the AHCA is to free up money for a tax cut for Scrooge McDuck. $800 bn

Obviously nobody will lose coverage because there is $8 bn and the GOP promised.

Healthcare is a life or death issue for the GOP now.

If Trump f**ks over the people regarding healthcare I hope he and the GOP lose their collective asses in the upcoming election seasons, I have serious reservations about their commitment to this biggest of issues.

That America is in the awful shape it is in health care wise is testament to the ineptitude and apathy of both parties, Obama aside that is, he got it wrong but at least he tried.

Well the people claiming that tens of millions will lose their coverage under the new plan are exactly the same people who claimed that premiums under Obamacare would DECREASE by $2500.  Theyre also the same people who assured us that of we liked our plan, we could keep our plan.....PERIOD

So pardon the skeptic in me but Im going to wait and see on this one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 09:56:16 PM
Good to see that all democrats are still delusional about the election, even the one who lost. Way to go Hillary

http://www.smh.com.au/world/hillary-clinton-blames-russian-hackers-comey-for-2016-election-loss-20170502-gvxqva.html

Keep telling yourself you won - if you say it enough times it will become true. Just like eamon and co have been doing the last few months.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 09:59:29 PM
It's pretty irresponsible of Elizabeth warren and co to come out with such bullshit on twitter. No doubt the morons will totally believe without checking facts.  All she is missing is a comment about dead bodies outside hospitals after being refused treatment and dead babies in skips thanks to trump

Elizabeth Warren‏Verified account @SenWarren · May 4 
This isn't football. It's not about scoring points. #AHCA will devastate Americans' healthcare. Families will go bankrupt. People will die.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2017, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 09:59:29 PM
It's pretty irresponsible of Elizabeth warren and co to come out with such bullshit on twitter. No doubt the morons will totally believe without checking facts.

Elizabeth Warren‏Verified account @SenWarren · May 4 
This isn't football. It's not about scoring points. #AHCA will devastate Americans' healthcare. Families will go bankrupt. People will die.
It won't even get past the Senate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 07, 2017, 10:36:25 PM
Hey Foxy-

just to be clear-are you saying you can't tell the difference between:

1) a former politician in one country making a video urging people in a different country publicly to vote one way

2) a report from the US's Office of the Director of National Intelligence which said and I quote
QuoteAssessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections
ICA 2017-01D 6 January 2017
Key Judgments
Russian efforts to influence the 2016 US presidential election represent the most recent expression of Moscow's longstanding desire to undermine the US-led liberal democratic order, but these activities demonstrated a significant escalation in directness, level of activity, and scope of effort compared to previous operations.
We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia's goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments.
 We also assess Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump's election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him. All three agencies agree with this judgment. CIA and FBI have high confidence in this judgment; NSA has moderate confidence.
 Moscow's approach evolved over the course of the campaign based on Russia's understanding of the electoral prospects of the two main candidates. When it appeared to Moscow that Secretary Clinton was likely to win the election, the Russian influence campaign began to focus more on undermining her future presidency.
 Further information has come to light since Election Day that, when combined with Russian behavior since early November 2016, increases our confidence in our assessments of Russian motivations and goals.
Moscow's influence campaign followed a Russian messaging strategy that blends covert intelligence operations—such as cyber activity—with overt efforts by Russian Government agencies, state-funded media, third-party intermediaries, and paid social media users or "trolls." Russia, like its Soviet predecessor, has a history of conducting covert influence campaigns focused on US presidential elections that have used intelligence officers and agents and press placements to disparage candidates perceived as hostile to the Kremlin.
 Russia's intelligence services conducted cyber operations against targets associated with the 2016 US presidential election, including targets associated with both major US political parties.
 We assess with high confidence that Russian military intelligence (General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate or GRU) used the Guccifer 2.0 persona and DCLeaks.com to release US victim data
ii
     This report is a declassified version of a highly classified assessment; its conclusions are identical to those in the highly classified assessment but this version does not include the full supporting information on key elements of the influence campaign.
     obtained in cyber operations publicly and in exclusives to media outlets and relayed material to WikiLeaks.
 Russian intelligence obtained and maintained access to elements of multiple US state or local electoral boards. DHS assesses that the types of systems Russian actors targeted or compromised were not involved in vote tallying.
 Russia's state-run propaganda machine contributed to the influence campaign by serving as a platform for Kremlin messaging to Russian and international audiences.
We assess Moscow will apply lessons learned from its Putin-ordered campaign aimed at the US presidential election to future influence efforts worldwide, including against US allies and their election processes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 08, 2017, 04:30:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Foxy ... the jury is still out with me?
Are you cozy bear or Fozzie Bear?
I hope you opt for being a Muppet😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 08, 2017, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 09:59:29 PM
It's pretty irresponsible of Elizabeth warren and co to come out with such bullshit on twitter. No doubt the morons will totally believe without checking facts.  All she is missing is a comment about dead bodies outside hospitals after being refused treatment and dead babies in skips thanks to trump

Elizabeth Warren‏Verified account @SenWarren · May 4 
This isn't football. It's not about scoring points. #AHCA will devastate Americans' healthcare. Families will go bankrupt. People will die.

The previous incarnation of the ACHA was scored by the CBO as putting 24 million people out of healthcare coverage. That is a fact.

Within that scoring was an additional saving of 3 billion dollars for social security. That is a fact.

The additional saving was explained by the CBO as being the result of less people reaching the age where they would receive mandatory healthcare. They would die early, for lack of access to affordable healthcare. That is a fact.

The current incarnation of ACHA, which was approved by the House, loosens regulations further than the original version, and gives the states a waiver to opt out of the ACA. That is a fact.

In fact, the only area where there might be some debate is whether you are a moron, or just a lying trolling w**ker.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 08, 2017, 12:01:04 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 08, 2017, 04:30:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Foxy ... the jury is still out with me?
Are you cozy bear or Fozzie Bear?
I hope you opt for being a Muppet😜

The Foxy quote  is a keeper

. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwm5bxiHQO8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:21:11 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 09:59:29 PM
It's pretty irresponsible of Elizabeth warren and co to come out with such bullshit on twitter. No doubt the morons will totally believe without checking facts.  All she is missing is a comment about dead bodies outside hospitals after being refused treatment and dead babies in skips thanks to trump

Elizabeth Warren‏Verified account @SenWarren · May 4 
This isn't football. It's not about scoring points. #AHCA will devastate Americans' healthcare. Families will go bankrupt. People will die.

Did she talk about "death panels"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 09, 2017, 07:47:49 PM
Maddow on Sally Yates and Flynn. Very murky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTFQNZMEM0k
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 09, 2017, 08:11:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2017, 07:47:49 PM
Maddow on Sally Yates and Flynn. Very murky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTFQNZMEM0k

Rachel Maddow is half a step removed from the National Enquirer



https://youtu.be/9xAUiaMpJvc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.

There's no such thing as "good" interference and "bad" interference. Obama purposely waded into foreign election with the intention of using his profile to endorse a candidate. How is that any different to what democrats claim (and again, Obama is the only one who is proven to have interfered in an election) Russia did in the US election? Seriously. Your explanation doesn't quite work.

The democrats will obviously fail to grasp reality yet again and there's more than a stink of hypocrisy coming from their side.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:41:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 09, 2017, 08:11:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2017, 07:47:49 PM
Maddow on Sally Yates and Flynn. Very murky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTFQNZMEM0k

Rachel Maddow is half a step removed from the National Enquirer



https://youtu.be/9xAUiaMpJvc

She is unhinged. Definitely a ten pinter. Still regularly watch footage of her on election night for a giggle. Classic TV.


Just for you lovely democrats to save you a google search...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 09, 2017, 09:43:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.

There's no such thing as "good" interference and "bad" interference. Obama purposely waded into foreign election with the intention of using his profile to endorse a candidate. How is that any different to what democrats claim (and again, Obama is the only one who is proven to have interfered in an election) Russia did in the US election? Seriously. Your explanation doesn't quite work.

The democrats will obviously fail to grasp reality yet again and there's more than a stink of hypocrisy coming from their side.

I think I got my answer..
Foxy is Cozy Bear
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ball Hopper on May 09, 2017, 10:54:00 PM
Vacancy at FBI Director as Comey is fired by Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 09, 2017, 11:00:08 PM
On sessions recommendation.

Too funny
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 09, 2017, 11:14:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 09, 2017, 08:11:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2017, 07:47:49 PM
Maddow on Sally Yates and Flynn. Very murky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTFQNZMEM0k

Rachel Maddow is half a step removed from the National Enquirer


https://youtu.be/9xAUiaMpJvc


What did she report that was erroneous and you compare her reporting to the National Enquirer.  Another example of the false equivalency that you constantly spout.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 09, 2017, 11:16:38 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 09, 2017, 11:00:08 PM
On sessions recommendation.

Too funny

You couldn't make this stuff up... Comey gets Trump elected and now Sessions uses it against him to remove Comey from his investigation into Trump's russian romance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on May 10, 2017, 12:10:19 AM
f**king hell, this is genuinely terrifying. Sessions recused himself, no?!

Deputy AG statement is incredible - primary reason for fitting was original announcement in July '16 that case was closed against HC.

Another hat for Jared Kushner to wear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 10, 2017, 12:26:17 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 09, 2017, 11:14:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 09, 2017, 08:11:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2017, 07:47:49 PM
Maddow on Sally Yates and Flynn. Very murky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTFQNZMEM0k

Rachel Maddow is half a step removed from the National Enquirer


https://youtu.be/9xAUiaMpJvc


What did she report that was erroneous and you compare her reporting to the National Enquirer.  Another example of the false equivalency that you constantly spout.

Rachel Maddow is a laughingstock

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/03/15/internet-destroys-rachel-maddow-after-trump-tax-return-scoop-fails-miserably/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 10, 2017, 12:58:45 AM
A president who is utterly out of control and drunk on his own power.

A president who beyond any doubt is attempting to pervert the course of justice.

And still the shills will shill for him.

A special prosecutor is an absolute necessity now.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 10, 2017, 01:02:32 AM
This is pure comedy....all the Democrats calling for Comeys head last week are now up in arms that Trumps has fired him.  At this rate I don't think Trump will finish his first year in office (but I hope he gets another Supreme Court pick in the meantime)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 10, 2017, 01:16:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 10, 2017, 12:26:17 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 09, 2017, 11:14:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 09, 2017, 08:11:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2017, 07:47:49 PM
Maddow on Sally Yates and Flynn. Very murky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTFQNZMEM0k

Rachel Maddow is half a step removed from the National Enquirer


https://youtu.be/9xAUiaMpJvc


What did she report that was erroneous and you compare her reporting to the National Enquirer.  Another example of the false equivalency that you constantly spout.

Rachel Maddow is a laughingstock

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/03/15/internet-destroys-rachel-maddow-after-trump-tax-return-scoop-fails-miserably/amp/

Whitey you make my point. Rachel gets a bit over excited about Trump's tax return and that's the equivalent of Ted Cruz's old man helping Lee Harvey Oswald shoot JFK?.
Come on..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2017, 02:51:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 10, 2017, 12:58:45 AM
A president who is utterly out of control and drunk on his own power.

A president who beyond any doubt is attempting to pervert the course of justice.

And still the shills will shill for him.

A special prosecutor is an absolute necessity now.

It is a car crash.
There is an awful lot of dirt on Trump and the FBI know it.

Delighted for the GOP.  Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of sociopaths.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2017, 02:53:49 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/526056/

Meanwhile

Kellyanne Conway says the firing of FBI Director James Comey "had nothing to do with Russia" http://cnn.it/2q0oVYo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2017, 09:52:38 AM
The US is totally polarised

Elizabeth Warren on James Comey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H67EkAogvNc

Newt Gingrich on James Comey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNNplcO3PAg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2017, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.

There's no such thing as "good" interference and "bad" interference. Obama purposely waded into foreign election with the intention of using his profile to endorse a candidate. How is that any different to what democrats claim (and again, Obama is the only one who is proven to have interfered in an election) Russia did in the US election? Seriously. Your explanation doesn't quite work.

The democrats will obviously fail to grasp reality yet again and there's more than a stink of hypocrisy coming from their side.

On the one hand, a very public, honest, endorsement, which could be taken or left, depending on one's attitude to the endorser. Just like George Clooney or Ted Nugent endorsing someone in the states. You know where they're coming from and why they're coming down on a particular side.

On the other hand, a hidden, unclaimed attempt to influence an election by secretly targeting one side only by slowly releasing embarrassing emails.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2017, 10:36:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 10, 2017, 01:02:32 AM
This is pure comedy....all the Democrats calling for Comeys head last week are now up in arms that Trumps has fired him.  At this rate I don't think Trump will finish his first year in office (but I hope he gets another Supreme Court pick in the meantime)

Two separate arguments which happen to have had the same desired outcome, which matters, and which you're smart enough to understand.

Dems were pissed at Comey for his clumsy work over the emails, including the disowned allegations last week. Can you imagine the uproar had Obama given Comey the boot last year??

Trump didn't give a shit about how Comey hadn't the email situation, otherwise he would have fired him in January.

You REALLY think he won't last??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 10, 2017, 10:37:42 PM
So the Russians cheated by exposing the fact that the Clinton campaign was cheating....okay...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2017, 10:41:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 10, 2017, 10:37:42 PM
So the Russians cheated by exposing the fact that the Clinton campaign was cheating....okay...

Who said the Russians "cheated"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2017, 10:53:56 PM
The Russians supported Trump because he would weaken the US due to his incompetence .
And lookit.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 10, 2017, 10:57:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2017, 10:53:56 PM
The Russians supported Trump because he would weaken the US due to his incompetence .
And lookit.

No one thought he'd win....not even the Russians....they intercepted communications to that effect last August

The Russians were trying to de-legitimize President Hillary before she was even coronated, to stir up trouble for after she got it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 10, 2017, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2017, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.

There's no such thing as "good" interference and "bad" interference. Obama purposely waded into foreign election with the intention of using his profile to endorse a candidate. How is that any different to what democrats claim (and again, Obama is the only one who is proven to have interfered in an election) Russia did in the US election? Seriously. Your explanation doesn't quite work.

The democrats will obviously fail to grasp reality yet again and there's more than a stink of hypocrisy coming from their side.

On the one hand, a very public, honest, endorsement, which could be taken or left, depending on one's attitude to the endorser. Just like George Clooney or Ted Nugent endorsing someone in the states. You know where they're coming from and why they're coming down on a particular side.

On the other hand, a hidden, unclaimed attempt to influence an election by secretly targeting one side only by slowly releasing embarrassing emails.


So why is Obama endorsing a candidate in a foreign election? is he not trying to use his 'influence'? Seriously?

Pop stars and actors have no real political credibility, you saw that in the US election. Obama on the other hand is a former 2 term kenyan president of the USA. That is massive, especially when you have naive young voters who will turn out because he's telling them to vote for all that politically correct nonsense he advocated.

Even if Russia was behind the wikileaks hacks all that did was inform voters of what was going on behind the scenes in the democrat camp. I fail to see how this was a bad thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 10, 2017, 11:19:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2017, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2017, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.

There's no such thing as "good" interference and "bad" interference. Obama purposely waded into foreign election with the intention of using his profile to endorse a candidate. How is that any different to what democrats claim (and again, Obama is the only one who is proven to have interfered in an election) Russia did in the US election? Seriously. Your explanation doesn't quite work.

The democrats will obviously fail to grasp reality yet again and there's more than a stink of hypocrisy coming from their side.

On the one hand, a very public, honest, endorsement, which could be taken or left, depending on one's attitude to the endorser. Just like George Clooney or Ted Nugent endorsing someone in the states. You know where they're coming from and why they're coming down on a particular side.

On the other hand, a hidden, unclaimed attempt to influence an election by secretly targeting one side only by slowly releasing embarrassing emails.


So why is Obama endorsing a candidate in a foreign election? is he not trying to use his 'influence'? Seriously?

Pop stars and actors have no real political credibility, you saw that in the US election. Obama on the other hand is a former 2 term kenyan president of the USA. That is massive, especially when you have naive young voters who will turn out because he's telling them to vote for all that politically correct nonsense he advocated.

Even if Russia was behind the wikileaks hacks all that did was inform voters of what was going on behind the scenes in the democrat camp. I fail to see how this was a bad thing.

It's confirmed, Foxy is Cozy Bear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 11, 2017, 01:32:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2017, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2017, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.

There's no such thing as "good" interference and "bad" interference. Obama purposely waded into foreign election with the intention of using his profile to endorse a candidate. How is that any different to what democrats claim (and again, Obama is the only one who is proven to have interfered in an election) Russia did in the US election? Seriously. Your explanation doesn't quite work.

The democrats will obviously fail to grasp reality yet again and there's more than a stink of hypocrisy coming from their side.

On the one hand, a very public, honest, endorsement, which could be taken or left, depending on one's attitude to the endorser. Just like George Clooney or Ted Nugent endorsing someone in the states. You know where they're coming from and why they're coming down on a particular side.

On the other hand, a hidden, unclaimed attempt to influence an election by secretly targeting one side only by slowly releasing embarrassing emails.


So why is Obama endorsing a candidate in a foreign election? is he not trying to use his 'influence'? Seriously?

Pop stars and actors have no real political credibility, you saw that in the US election. Obama on the other hand is a former 2 term kenyan president of the USA. That is massive, especially when you have naive young voters who will turn out because he's telling them to vote for all that politically correct nonsense he advocated.

Even if Russia was behind the wikileaks hacks all that did was inform voters of what was going on behind the scenes in the democrat camp. I fail to see how this was a bad thing.

Is the "kenyan" bit supposed to be funny? ::)

Of course Obama is trying to use his influence. Why else would he or anyone make an endorsement?

The difference between that and the Russian stuff (AGAIN!) is that he is doing so openly, just like Trump did with LePen.

If you can't see the difference...

And (AGAIN!), the issue with the leaks is that it was one-sided. We DIDN'T get to see what was going behind the scenes with Trump and the GOP. And given the cut-throat, back-stabbing, corrupt nature of politics across the board, its a guarantee that whenever the shit is let out in the open for the GOP, it will be embarrassing for them too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 07:06:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 10, 2017, 10:57:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2017, 10:53:56 PM
The Russians supported Trump because he would weaken the US due to his incompetence .
And lookit.

No one thought he'd win....not even the Russians....they intercepted communications to that effect last August

The Russians were trying to de-legitimize President Hillary before she was even coronated, to stir up trouble for after she got it.
It was a bet. Not expensive. with the payoff that Trump might end the sanctions
And by April everyone knew Trump would win the GOP nomination

The 3 horsemen of the Trump apocalypse were Vladimir Putin, Steve Bannon and Robert Mercer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 11, 2017, 10:28:35 AM
Foxy,
I suspect you must have been equally upset when Obama so successfully endorsed Clinton?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 11, 2017, 11:13:05 AM
This is unreal stuff - Truly Alice in Wonderland

Trump bans American journalists, but not Russian press, from meeting with Russian foreign minister
It was Trump's only scheduled event the day after he fired the FBI director amid an investigation into his campaign's Russia ties.

President Trump talks to reporters during a meeting with Dr. Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State and National Security Adviser under President Richard Nixon, in the Oval Office of the White House on May 10. CREDIT: AP Photo/Evan Vucci
The only public event on President Trump's calendar the day after he fired FBI Director James Comey amid an ongoing investigation into his campaign's ties with Russian officials was a White House meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.
American media was banned from covering the event. A Russian photographer, however, was not, so the American public was able to see images of the meeting thanks to Russia's state-run press.

According to the White House press pool's report, American journalists were summoned into the Oval Office just after 11:20 a.m. for what they assumed would be a spray of Trump meeting with Lavrov. But when they entered, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was unexpectedly sitting next to Trump. Kissinger worked for President Nixon, who resigned from office in 1974 amid an obstruction scandal.

The White House's official readout of the meeting made no mention of Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak's attendance.
Lavrov traveled to the White House from Foggy Bottom, where he met at the State Department with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who received the Order of Friendship from Vladimir Putin in 2013.
During a brief appearance before journalists, Lavrov mocked an American journalist who asked him if "the Comey firing cast a shadow of your talks."
"Was he fired?" Lavrov said, sarcastically. "You're kidding! You're kidding!"

Lavrov's meetings with Trump administration officials came as the New York Times broke news that days before his firing, Comey "asked the Justice Department for a significant increase in money and personnel for the bureau's investigation into Russia's interference in the presidential election." Sessions, who said he would recuse himself from from any investigations involving Russia and the Trump campaign after his false statements about his meetings with Kislyak came to light a couple months ago, recommended that Comey be fired.
After Comey's firing, White House openly pushes for conclusion of FBI's Russia investigation

A Politico report about the chain of events that culminated in Comey's firing also connected it to Trump's concerns about the Russia investigations, noting that the president "had grown enraged by the Russia investigation, two advisers said, frustrated by his inability to control the mushrooming narrative around Russia. He repeatedly asked aides why the Russia investigation wouldn't disappear and demanded they speak out for him. He would sometimes scream at television clips about the probe, one adviser said."
If Trump really wants it all to go away, meeting with Kissinger and numerous Russian officials the day after he fires the FBI director amid an ongoing investigation into his campaign's Russia connections is an odd way to do it.
The Trump administration's decision to ban American journalists from the meeting with Lavrov and Kislyak comes a day after a journalist in West Virginia was arrested for asking questions to Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price. Trump has attempted to smear and discredit outlets that cover his administration critically, while praising and amplifying those that provide unquestioning support.
In early January, the U.S. intelligence community released its declassified intelligence report about Russia's meddling in the presidential election. A significant portion of it details Russian state-owned television station RT's efforts to help Donald Trump.

In addition to accusing RT employees of collaborating with WikiLeaks, the report said RT "consistently cast President-elect Trump as the target of unfair coverage from traditional U.S. media outlets that they claimed were subservient to a corrupt political establishment."
Following Trump's victory, RT "hailed President-elect Trump's victory as vindication of Putin's advocacy of global populist movements — the theme of Putin's annual conference for Western academics in October 2016 — and the latest example of Western liberalism's collapse."

UPDATE: Jordan Fabian, a journalist for The Hill, clarified the matter of exactly who was and wasn't allowed to cover the Trump-Lavrov-Kislyak meeting.
From an email published by the White House press pool.
I've received multiple questions from my colleagues in the press corps about who was allowed into this morning's meeting with President Trump and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.
The questions arose in part because TASS, the Russian state-owned news agency, published photos from the meeting, even though it was closed to the press.
This was the White House's response when I asked whether members of the Russian media were allowed into the meeting:
"On background, our official photographer and their official photographer were present, that's it."


Even  better - White House suggests Deputy AG was responsible for FBI Director's removal
- Further time passes
- Deputy AG threatens to resign over slur.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_g_NAoXcAAk_Kk.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 11, 2017, 12:46:57 PM
Sean Spicer has announced that he'll be supporting Tyrone in this years All-Ireland football championship, because both himself and Tyrone are among the bushes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 11, 2017, 01:56:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 07:06:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 10, 2017, 10:57:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2017, 10:53:56 PM
The Russians supported Trump because he would weaken the US due to his incompetence .
And lookit.

No one thought he'd win....not even the Russians....they intercepted communications to that effect last August

The Russians were trying to de-legitimize President Hillary before she was even coronated, to stir up trouble for after she got it.
It was a bet. Not expensive. with the payoff that Trump might end the sanctions
And by April everyone knew Trump would win the GOP nomination

The 3 horsemen of the Trump apocalypse were Vladimir Putin, Steve Bannon and Robert Mercer

Main stream media pushed Trump as a legitimate candidate when most informed people know he's a fvckin clown.....reason.....they figured Hillary would have a much easier time beating him than a Walker or a Bush.  Unfortunately for them and the American people it backfired spectacularly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 03:06:46 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 11, 2017, 10:28:35 AM
Foxy,
I suspect you must have been equally upset when Obama so successfully endorsed Clinton?

It was the US election. You expect a former presidents from one party to endorse whoever is running on their ticket.
Just so happens that Obamas failed legacy stained Clintons bid. Watching democrats cry on TV was the highlight of 2016.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 03:21:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 11, 2017, 01:56:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 07:06:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 10, 2017, 10:57:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2017, 10:53:56 PM
The Russians supported Trump because he would weaken the US due to his incompetence .
And lookit.

No one thought he'd win....not even the Russians....they intercepted communications to that effect last August

The Russians were trying to de-legitimize President Hillary before she was even coronated, to stir up trouble for after she got it.
It was a bet. Not expensive. with the payoff that Trump might end the sanctions
And by April everyone knew Trump would win the GOP nomination

The 3 horsemen of the Trump apocalypse were Vladimir Putin, Steve Bannon and Robert Mercer

Main stream media pushed Trump as a legitimate candidate when most informed people know he's a fvckin clown.....reason.....they figured Hillary would have a much easier time beating him than a Walker or a Bush.  Unfortunately for them and the American people it backfired spectacularly

Adlai Stevenson was the 1950s Democratic leader. On being told that he would have the support of "every thinking man in America," Mr Stevenson replied: "Yes, but I need a majority"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQv7Tr8HbGE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 01:32:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2017, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2017, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.

There's no such thing as "good" interference and "bad" interference. Obama purposely waded into foreign election with the intention of using his profile to endorse a candidate. How is that any different to what democrats claim (and again, Obama is the only one who is proven to have interfered in an election) Russia did in the US election? Seriously. Your explanation doesn't quite work.

The democrats will obviously fail to grasp reality yet again and there's more than a stink of hypocrisy coming from their side.

On the one hand, a very public, honest, endorsement, which could be taken or left, depending on one's attitude to the endorser. Just like George Clooney or Ted Nugent endorsing someone in the states. You know where they're coming from and why they're coming down on a particular side.

On the other hand, a hidden, unclaimed attempt to influence an election by secretly targeting one side only by slowly releasing embarrassing emails.


So why is Obama endorsing a candidate in a foreign election? is he not trying to use his 'influence'? Seriously?

Pop stars and actors have no real political credibility, you saw that in the US election. Obama on the other hand is a former 2 term kenyan president of the USA. That is massive, especially when you have naive young voters who will turn out because he's telling them to vote for all that politically correct nonsense he advocated.

Even if Russia was behind the wikileaks hacks all that did was inform voters of what was going on behind the scenes in the democrat camp. I fail to see how this was a bad thing.

Is the "kenyan" bit supposed to be funny? ::)

Of course Obama is trying to use his influence. Why else would he or anyone make an endorsement?

The difference between that and the Russian stuff (AGAIN!) is that he is doing so openly, just like Trump did with LePen.

If you can't see the difference...

And (AGAIN!), the issue with the leaks is that it was one-sided. We DIDN'T get to see what was going behind the scenes with Trump and the GOP. And given the cut-throat, back-stabbing, corrupt nature of politics across the board, its a guarantee that whenever the shit is let out in the open for the GOP, it will be embarrassing for them too.

Trump did not endorse LePen. Please provide evidence where he did or retract your statement.

You've just said it - Obama used his influence in the french election. He interfered in an foreign nations election process by endorsing one candidate. I really don't know why you want to keep debating when you've already debunked your own argument. You're a decent guy J70, stick to the facts.

Look - democrats are clinging to the Russia myth as its the only strand of credibility they have left after the election.
America rejected them and they still can't believe it. Focusing on the bogeyman and how it interfered with the election is nonsense.

The biggest problem democrats have with the Russia myth seem to be just pissed that wikileaks highlighed the clinton campaign. You wouldn't have heard a peep out of them if it had highlighted trump. Sore losers. Sad.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 11, 2017, 03:57:55 PM
Obama directly interfered in the Brexit vote by publicly stating the at Britain would have to go to the back of the line in terms of a new trade deal if they left the EU. 

Haha....I think Trump came out the next day and said hed bring them to the front of the line
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on May 11, 2017, 04:00:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 11, 2017, 03:57:55 PM
Obama directly interfered in the Brexit vote by publicly stating the at Britain would have to go to the back of the line in terms of a new trade deal if they left the EU. 

Haha....I think Trump came out the next day and said hed bring them to the front of the line

Neither of which means jack sh*t when it comes to the sh*t show that is and is going to be Brexit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 04:19:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 11, 2017, 03:57:55 PM
Obama directly interfered in the Brexit vote by publicly stating the at Britain would have to go to the back of the line in terms of a new trade deal if they left the EU. 

Haha....I think Trump came out the next day and said hed bring them to the front of the line
Trump also promised a wall, jobs for rust belt towns, and cheaper and better healthcare
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 11, 2017, 04:54:38 PM
Democrats up in arms because of "interference" when their own leader "interfered" in the Brexit vote

I also remember Obama mocking Romney during a debate about the Russian threat....maybe the "annointed" one isn't quite as clever as he (and the media) would like us to believe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 11, 2017, 04:59:26 PM
This clown just gets better & better. Trump tried to explain economics to The Economist and it went just like you think it did

Donald Trump Tries to Explain Economics to The Economist. Hilarity Ensues.
By  Jonathan Chait   

Donald Trump has now spent enough time listening to Republican economic advisers that he can give an interview to The Economist in which he attempts to regurgitate the ideas that have been fed him. At various points in the interview, Trump tries and fails to think of the word "reciprocity." ("We need reciprocality in terms of our trade deals," he asserts.) Asked to flesh out his vision for a fair NAFTA in more detail, he can only come up with synonyms for "big":

It sounds like you're imagining a pretty big renegotiation of NAFTA. What would a fair NAFTA look like?

Big isn't a good enough word. Massive.

Huge?

It's got to be. It's got to be.

The interview really starts to go downhill when Trump explains his tax plan:

Another part of your overall plan, the tax reform plan. Is it OK if that tax plan increases the deficit? Ronald Reagan's tax reform didn't.

Well, it actually did. But, but it's called priming the pump.

It is in fact well known among economists and policy experts that the 1986 Tax Reform Act was designed to be revenue neutral. The interviewer lets this go and continues:

But beyond that it's OK if the tax plan increases the deficit?

It is OK, because it won't increase it for long. You may have two years where you'll ... you understand the expression "prime the pump"?

Yes.

We have to prime the pump.

It's very Keynesian.

We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard that expression before, for this particular type of an event?

Priming the pump?

Yeah, have you heard it?

Yes.

Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't heard it. I mean, I just ... I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.

It's ...

Yeah, what you have to do is you have to put something in before you can get something out.

A few facts. First, the United States is not "the highest-taxed nation in the world." It is one of the lowest-taxed nations in the OECD:

Second, Trump did not invent the phrase "prime the pump." It has been around since at least the 1930s and is extremely familiar to economists. Nor does it describe his plan. Priming the pump refers to a program of temporary fiscal stimulus to inject demand into an economy stuck with high unemployment. Trump is instead proposing to permanently increase the deficit in an economy with low unemployment. Telling The Economist you invented the phrase "priming the pump," to describe a plan that does not prime the pump, is a bit like sitting down with Car and Driver, pointing to the steering wheel on your car and asking if they have ever heard of a little word you just came up with called "hubcap."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 01:32:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2017, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2017, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.

There's no such thing as "good" interference and "bad" interference. Obama purposely waded into foreign election with the intention of using his profile to endorse a candidate. How is that any different to what democrats claim (and again, Obama is the only one who is proven to have interfered in an election) Russia did in the US election? Seriously. Your explanation doesn't quite work.

The democrats will obviously fail to grasp reality yet again and there's more than a stink of hypocrisy coming from their side.

On the one hand, a very public, honest, endorsement, which could be taken or left, depending on one's attitude to the endorser. Just like George Clooney or Ted Nugent endorsing someone in the states. You know where they're coming from and why they're coming down on a particular side.

On the other hand, a hidden, unclaimed attempt to influence an election by secretly targeting one side only by slowly releasing embarrassing emails.


So why is Obama endorsing a candidate in a foreign election? is he not trying to use his 'influence'? Seriously?

Pop stars and actors have no real political credibility, you saw that in the US election. Obama on the other hand is a former 2 term kenyan president of the USA. That is massive, especially when you have naive young voters who will turn out because he's telling them to vote for all that politically correct nonsense he advocated.

Even if Russia was behind the wikileaks hacks all that did was inform voters of what was going on behind the scenes in the democrat camp. I fail to see how this was a bad thing.

Is the "kenyan" bit supposed to be funny? ::)

Of course Obama is trying to use his influence. Why else would he or anyone make an endorsement?

The difference between that and the Russian stuff (AGAIN!) is that he is doing so openly, just like Trump did with LePen.

If you can't see the difference...

And (AGAIN!), the issue with the leaks is that it was one-sided. We DIDN'T get to see what was going behind the scenes with Trump and the GOP. And given the cut-throat, back-stabbing, corrupt nature of politics across the board, its a guarantee that whenever the shit is let out in the open for the GOP, it will be embarrassing for them too.

Trump did not endorse LePen. Please provide evidence where he did or retract your statement.

You've just said it - Obama used his influence in the french election. He interfered in an foreign nations election process by endorsing one candidate. I really don't know why you want to keep debating when you've already debunked your own argument. You're a decent guy J70, stick to the facts.

Look - democrats are clinging to the Russia myth as its the only strand of credibility they have left after the election.
America rejected them and they still can't believe it. Focusing on the bogeyman and how it interfered with the election is nonsense.

The biggest problem democrats have with the Russia myth seem to be just pissed that wikileaks highlighed the clinton campaign. You wouldn't have heard a peep out of them if it had highlighted trump. Sore losers. Sad.

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 05:28:05 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 11, 2017, 04:59:26 PM
This clown just gets better & better. Trump tried to explain economics to The Economist and it went just like you think it did

Donald Trump Tries to Explain Economics to The Economist. Hilarity Ensues.
By  Jonathan Chait   

Donald Trump has now spent enough time listening to Republican economic advisers that he can give an interview to The Economist in which he attempts to regurgitate the ideas that have been fed him. At various points in the interview, Trump tries and fails to think of the word "reciprocity." ("We need reciprocality in terms of our trade deals," he asserts.) Asked to flesh out his vision for a fair NAFTA in more detail, he can only come up with synonyms for "big":

It sounds like you're imagining a pretty big renegotiation of NAFTA. What would a fair NAFTA look like?

Big isn't a good enough word. Massive.

Huge?

It's got to be. It's got to be.

The interview really starts to go downhill when Trump explains his tax plan:

Another part of your overall plan, the tax reform plan. Is it OK if that tax plan increases the deficit? Ronald Reagan's tax reform didn't.

Well, it actually did. But, but it's called priming the pump.

It is in fact well known among economists and policy experts that the 1986 Tax Reform Act was designed to be revenue neutral. The interviewer lets this go and continues:

But beyond that it's OK if the tax plan increases the deficit?

It is OK, because it won't increase it for long. You may have two years where you'll ... you understand the expression "prime the pump"?

Yes.

We have to prime the pump.

It's very Keynesian.

We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard that expression before, for this particular type of an event?

Priming the pump?

Yeah, have you heard it?

Yes.

Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't heard it. I mean, I just ... I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.

It's ...

Yeah, what you have to do is you have to put something in before you can get something out.

A few facts. First, the United States is not "the highest-taxed nation in the world." It is one of the lowest-taxed nations in the OECD:

Second, Trump did not invent the phrase "prime the pump." It has been around since at least the 1930s and is extremely familiar to economists. Nor does it describe his plan. Priming the pump refers to a program of temporary fiscal stimulus to inject demand into an economy stuck with high unemployment. Trump is instead proposing to permanently increase the deficit in an economy with low unemployment. Telling The Economist you invented the phrase "priming the pump," to describe a plan that does not prime the pump, is a bit like sitting down with Car and Driver, pointing to the steering wheel on your car and asking if they have ever heard of a little word you just came up with called "hubcap."

Trump  may have dementia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCR5oC5ZQs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 05:32:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 01:32:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 10, 2017, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2017, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2017, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 09, 2017, 02:18:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
and finally

the hypocrisy of the democrats is unbelievable. Here they go bleating on and on about interference in the US elections from a foreign country and then Obama goes public and endorses a candidate in the French Election.

but that's ok, right?

Publicly endorsing a candidate = unleashing your minions to dig up and slowly release embarrassing information and emails from one side only.

Gotcha.

There's no such thing as "good" interference and "bad" interference. Obama purposely waded into foreign election with the intention of using his profile to endorse a candidate. How is that any different to what democrats claim (and again, Obama is the only one who is proven to have interfered in an election) Russia did in the US election? Seriously. Your explanation doesn't quite work.

The democrats will obviously fail to grasp reality yet again and there's more than a stink of hypocrisy coming from their side.

On the one hand, a very public, honest, endorsement, which could be taken or left, depending on one's attitude to the endorser. Just like George Clooney or Ted Nugent endorsing someone in the states. You know where they're coming from and why they're coming down on a particular side.

On the other hand, a hidden, unclaimed attempt to influence an election by secretly targeting one side only by slowly releasing embarrassing emails.


So why is Obama endorsing a candidate in a foreign election? is he not trying to use his 'influence'? Seriously?

Pop stars and actors have no real political credibility, you saw that in the US election. Obama on the other hand is a former 2 term kenyan president of the USA. That is massive, especially when you have naive young voters who will turn out because he's telling them to vote for all that politically correct nonsense he advocated.

Even if Russia was behind the wikileaks hacks all that did was inform voters of what was going on behind the scenes in the democrat camp. I fail to see how this was a bad thing.

Is the "kenyan" bit supposed to be funny? ::)

Of course Obama is trying to use his influence. Why else would he or anyone make an endorsement?

The difference between that and the Russian stuff (AGAIN!) is that he is doing so openly, just like Trump did with LePen.

If you can't see the difference...

And (AGAIN!), the issue with the leaks is that it was one-sided. We DIDN'T get to see what was going behind the scenes with Trump and the GOP. And given the cut-throat, back-stabbing, corrupt nature of politics across the board, its a guarantee that whenever the shit is let out in the open for the GOP, it will be embarrassing for them too.

Trump did not endorse LePen. Please provide evidence where he did or retract your statement.

You've just said it - Obama used his influence in the french election. He interfered in an foreign nations election process by endorsing one candidate. I really don't know why you want to keep debating when you've already debunked your own argument. You're a decent guy J70, stick to the facts.

Look - democrats are clinging to the Russia myth as its the only strand of credibility they have left after the election.
America rejected them and they still can't believe it. Focusing on the bogeyman and how it interfered with the election is nonsense.

The biggest problem democrats have with the Russia myth seem to be just pissed that wikileaks highlighed the clinton campaign. You wouldn't have heard a peep out of them if it had highlighted trump. Sore losers. Sad.
He did endorse her

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on May 11, 2017, 05:36:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 05:28:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCR5oC5ZQs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCR5oC5ZQs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXhfdiQ6sB8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXhfdiQ6sB8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.

So a newspaper "ruled" his comments as an "apparent" endorsement. Er...did he go on record like obama and endorse the candidate publicly to the french voters? No he didn't. You're wrong J70.

Interference, covert or not, is still interference. 

If you're having problems with the actual word here's the entry from dictionary.com
Interfere - to take part in the affairs of others; meddle (often followed by with or in):

Exactly what Obama did in the French election. I think that's enough clarification. Democrats are hypocrites.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 05:42:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 11, 2017, 05:36:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 05:28:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCR5oC5ZQs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCR5oC5ZQs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXhfdiQ6sB8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXhfdiQ6sB8)
More Scarborough

Trump asked Comey to swear loyalty to him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxzb7OKz9zM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 11, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.

So a newspaper "ruled" his comments as an "apparent" endorsement. Er...did he go on record like obama and endorse the candidate publicly to the french voters? No he didn't. You're wrong J70.

Interference, covert or not, is still interference. 

If you're having problems with the actual word here's the entry from dictionary.com
Interfere - to take part in the affairs of others; meddle (often followed by with or in):

Exactly what Obama did in the French election. I think that's enough clarification. Democrats are hypocrites.

Not just one newspaper. Numerous.

Besides, just how do you interpret "strongest on borders", "strongest on what's been going on in France", "toughest on radical Islamic terrorism" etc., issues key to Trump's own election and platform, if not an endorsement?

He could just have said "no comment". He didn't. He outlined her perceived strengths in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. That's an endorsement any day of the week.

As for the rest, deny it all you want, but "covert" and "open/public" is a very key difference. Everyone knows where Obama is coming from when he makes an endorsement. There is no secret motivation and the opponent of the endorsed could even wear it as a badge of honour and an angle of attack on the endorsed. Do you think Hillary was upset when David Duke endorsed Trump? Or Newt Gingrich or the entire Fox News team? Or Trump when some celeb endorsed Hillary?

Whereas the hacking and selective publication of emails, targeting only one side, leaves one side with a clear advantage and the other at a major disadvantage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.

So a newspaper "ruled" his comments as an "apparent" endorsement. Er...did he go on record like obama and endorse the candidate publicly to the french voters? No he didn't. You're wrong J70.

Interference, covert or not, is still interference. 

If you're having problems with the actual word here's the entry from dictionary.com
Interfere - to take part in the affairs of others; meddle (often followed by with or in):

Exactly what Obama did in the French election. I think that's enough clarification. Democrats are hypocrites.

Not just one newspaper. Numerous.

Besides, just how do you interpret "strongest on borders", "strongest on what's been going on in France", "toughest on radical Islamic terrorism" etc., issues key to Trump's own election and platform, if not an endorsement?

He could just have said "no comment". He didn't. He outlined her perceived strengths in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. That's an endorsement any day of the week.

As for the rest, deny it all you want, but "covert" and "open/public" is a very key difference. Everyone knows where Obama is coming from when he makes an endorsement. There is no secret motivation and the opponent of the endorsed could even wear it as a badge of honour and an angle of attack on the endorsed. Do you think Hillary was upset when David Duke endorsed Trump? Or Newt Gingrich or the entire Fox News team? Or Trump when some celeb endorsed Hillary?

Whereas the hacking and selective publication of emails, targeting only one side, leaves one side with a clear advantage and the other at a major disadvantage.

All of the above you wrote is irrelevant. The point is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.
Democrats can't quite grasp the hypocrisy of their position.

You're just trying to divert attention away from that fact rather than just agree.
Anyway, you keep believing your own version. Seems par for the course for democrats these days.
Block free speech, riot at public gatherings, hysterical protests etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 06:41:11 PM
He didn't interfere in an election. He didn't attempt to destabilise the UK 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 11, 2017, 06:44:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 05:28:05 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 11, 2017, 04:59:26 PM
This clown just gets better & better. Trump tried to explain economics to The Economist and it went just like you think it did

Donald Trump Tries to Explain Economics to The Economist. Hilarity Ensues.
By  Jonathan Chait   

Donald Trump has now spent enough time listening to Republican economic advisers that he can give an interview to The Economist in which he attempts to regurgitate the ideas that have been fed him. At various points in the interview, Trump tries and fails to think of the word "reciprocity." ("We need reciprocality in terms of our trade deals," he asserts.) Asked to flesh out his vision for a fair NAFTA in more detail, he can only come up with synonyms for "big":

It sounds like you're imagining a pretty big renegotiation of NAFTA. What would a fair NAFTA look like?

Big isn't a good enough word. Massive.

Huge?

It's got to be. It's got to be.

The interview really starts to go downhill when Trump explains his tax plan:

Another part of your overall plan, the tax reform plan. Is it OK if that tax plan increases the deficit? Ronald Reagan's tax reform didn't.

Well, it actually did. But, but it's called priming the pump.

It is in fact well known among economists and policy experts that the 1986 Tax Reform Act was designed to be revenue neutral. The interviewer lets this go and continues:

But beyond that it's OK if the tax plan increases the deficit?

It is OK, because it won't increase it for long. You may have two years where you'll ... you understand the expression "prime the pump"?

Yes.

We have to prime the pump.

It's very Keynesian.

We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard that expression before, for this particular type of an event?

Priming the pump?

Yeah, have you heard it?

Yes.

Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't heard it. I mean, I just ... I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.

It's ...

Yeah, what you have to do is you have to put something in before you can get something out.

A few facts. First, the United States is not "the highest-taxed nation in the world." It is one of the lowest-taxed nations in the OECD:

Second, Trump did not invent the phrase "prime the pump." It has been around since at least the 1930s and is extremely familiar to economists. Nor does it describe his plan. Priming the pump refers to a program of temporary fiscal stimulus to inject demand into an economy stuck with high unemployment. Trump is instead proposing to permanently increase the deficit in an economy with low unemployment. Telling The Economist you invented the phrase "priming the pump," to describe a plan that does not prime the pump, is a bit like sitting down with Car and Driver, pointing to the steering wheel on your car and asking if they have ever heard of a little word you just came up with called "hubcap."

Trump  may have dementia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCR5oC5ZQs

You have no shame, you know full well he would never have been potus if he had.

Fake news from the looney left, whodah thunk????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 06:41:11 PM
He didn't interfere in an election.

Yes he did. Watch the video. He says it himself that he's got involved. Couldn't be clearer.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/french-election-obama-endorse-macron/

I feel sick having been on the Fake news/CNN website. Liar central.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 07:16:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 06:41:11 PM
He didn't interfere in an election.

Yes he did. Watch the video. He says it himself that he's got involved. Couldn't be clearer.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/french-election-obama-endorse-macron/

I feel sick having been on the Fake news/CNN website. Liar central.
Did he hack en Marche? Did he send terrorists to blow people up a few days before voting? Did he use an army of chat bots to confuse people? Did he run thousands of fake twitter accounts?

You are talking out of your  arse. Again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 11, 2017, 07:17:50 PM
Foxy pretending he can't tell the difference between expressing support for a candidate and hacking an email server.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 07:30:37 PM
Quote from: dec on May 11, 2017, 07:17:50 PM
Foxy pretending he can't tell the difference between expressing support for a candidate and hacking an email server.

Re-read the chain. My argument is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.

Take that point on it's own without trying to throw in hacking etc. and say that he didn't.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 07:30:37 PM
Quote from: dec on May 11, 2017, 07:17:50 PM
Foxy pretending he can't tell the difference between expressing support for a candidate and hacking an email server.

Re-read the chain. My argument is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.

Take that point on it's own without trying to throw in hacking etc. and say that he didn't.
Give it a rest Foxy. You are not on Hannity. You are out of your depth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 07:34:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 07:16:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 06:41:11 PM
He didn't interfere in an election.

Yes he did. Watch the video. He says it himself that he's got involved. Couldn't be clearer.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/french-election-obama-endorse-macron/

I feel sick having been on the Fake news/CNN website. Liar central.
Did he hack en Marche? Did he send terrorists to blow people up a few days before voting? Did he use an army of chat bots to confuse people? Did he run thousands of fake twitter accounts?

You are talking out of your  arse. Again.

Normally I wouldn't bother responding to you because your posts are annoying drivel but you've outdone yourself this time with a totally irrelevant rant. I think you should see an arse doctor pronto. It's oozing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 11, 2017, 07:36:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 06:41:11 PM
He didn't interfere in an election. He didn't attempt to destabilise the UK

Would you care to explain this then:

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/479469/

President Obama's warning to those championing Britain's exit from the EU was stark: Leave, he said, and the "U.K. is going to be in the back of the queue" on trade deals with the U.S.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 07:38:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 07:30:37 PM
Quote from: dec on May 11, 2017, 07:17:50 PM
Foxy pretending he can't tell the difference between expressing support for a candidate and hacking an email server.

Re-read the chain. My argument is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.

Take that point on it's own without trying to throw in hacking etc. and say that he didn't.
Give it a rest Foxy. You are not on Hannity. You are out of your depth.

Ha! the usual tactic of trying to silence when it gets a bit awkward. No democrat here is prepared to answer a straight question. The bold eamon refused to answer if he thought cnn/msnbc tell lies.

If the self-righteous aren't prepared to tell the truth then why do they expect it from others?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 11, 2017, 07:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.

So a newspaper "ruled" his comments as an "apparent" endorsement. Er...did he go on record like obama and endorse the candidate publicly to the french voters? No he didn't. You're wrong J70.

Interference, covert or not, is still interference. 

If you're having problems with the actual word here's the entry from dictionary.com
Interfere - to take part in the affairs of others; meddle (often followed by with or in):

Exactly what Obama did in the French election. I think that's enough clarification. Democrats are hypocrites.

Not just one newspaper. Numerous.

Besides, just how do you interpret "strongest on borders", "strongest on what's been going on in France", "toughest on radical Islamic terrorism" etc., issues key to Trump's own election and platform, if not an endorsement?

He could just have said "no comment". He didn't. He outlined her perceived strengths in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. That's an endorsement any day of the week.

As for the rest, deny it all you want, but "covert" and "open/public" is a very key difference. Everyone knows where Obama is coming from when he makes an endorsement. There is no secret motivation and the opponent of the endorsed could even wear it as a badge of honour and an angle of attack on the endorsed. Do you think Hillary was upset when David Duke endorsed Trump? Or Newt Gingrich or the entire Fox News team? Or Trump when some celeb endorsed Hillary?

Whereas the hacking and selective publication of emails, targeting only one side, leaves one side with a clear advantage and the other at a major disadvantage.

All of the above you wrote is irrelevant. The point is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.
Democrats can't quite grasp the hypocrisy of their position.

You're just trying to divert attention away from that fact rather than just agree.
Anyway, you keep believing your own version. Seems par for the course for democrats these days.
Block free speech, riot at public gatherings, hysterical protests etc.

People have been endorsing people in other countries forever. Seriously, who would have given a bollocks if Putin had just come out and publicly endorsed Trump, whatever his motivation? Hell, Hillary could have made an ad of it.

So no, what I wrote above is absolutely relevant.

As for the rest, if and when I express approval of rioting or shutting down campuses over Ann f**king Coulter, you can smear me. Otherwise, stick to the substance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 11, 2017, 07:56:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 07:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.

So a newspaper "ruled" his comments as an "apparent" endorsement. Er...did he go on record like obama and endorse the candidate publicly to the french voters? No he didn't. You're wrong J70.

Interference, covert or not, is still interference. 

If you're having problems with the actual word here's the entry from dictionary.com
Interfere - to take part in the affairs of others; meddle (often followed by with or in):

Exactly what Obama did in the French election. I think that's enough clarification. Democrats are hypocrites.

Not just one newspaper. Numerous.

Besides, just how do you interpret "strongest on borders", "strongest on what's been going on in France", "toughest on radical Islamic terrorism" etc., issues key to Trump's own election and platform, if not an endorsement?

He could just have said "no comment". He didn't. He outlined her perceived strengths in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. That's an endorsement any day of the week.

As for the rest, deny it all you want, but "covert" and "open/public" is a very key difference. Everyone knows where Obama is coming from when he makes an endorsement. There is no secret motivation and the opponent of the endorsed could even wear it as a badge of honour and an angle of attack on the endorsed. Do you think Hillary was upset when David Duke endorsed Trump? Or Newt Gingrich or the entire Fox News team? Or Trump when some celeb endorsed Hillary?

Whereas the hacking and selective publication of emails, targeting only one side, leaves one side with a clear advantage and the other at a major disadvantage.

All of the above you wrote is irrelevant. The point is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.
Democrats can't quite grasp the hypocrisy of their position.

You're just trying to divert attention away from that fact rather than just agree.
Anyway, you keep believing your own version. Seems par for the course for democrats these days.
Block free speech, riot at public gatherings, hysterical protests etc.

People have been endorsing people in other countries forever. Seriously, who would have given a bollocks if Putin had just come out and publicly endorsed Trump, whatever his motivation? Hell, Hillary could have made an ad of it.

So no, what I wrote above is absolutely relevant.

As for the rest, if and when I express approval of rioting or shutting down campuses over Ann f**king Coulter, you can smear me. Otherwise, stick to the substance.

Anne Coulter has an opinion contrary to be bleeding hearts of the looney left, why can they not respect freedom of speech, why can they not simply ignore her and why do the f**kers need to throw the rattle out of the pram and act the collective ****?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 11, 2017, 07:56:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 07:34:43 PM
Normally I wouldn't bother responding to you because your posts are annoying drivel but you've outdone yourself this time with a totally irrelevant rant. I think you should see an arse doctor pronto. It's oozing.

This is what conservative discourse has been reduced to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 11, 2017, 07:57:22 PM
Quote from: stew on May 11, 2017, 07:56:02 PM
Anne Coulter has an opinion contrary to be bleeding hearts of the looney left, why can they not respect freedom of speech, why can they not simply ignore her and why do the f**kers need to throw the rattle out of the pram and act the collective ****?

Anne Coulter chickened out and decided not to go to Berkeley. Scuttling off like the tail-tucked rodent she is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 11, 2017, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: stew on May 11, 2017, 07:56:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 07:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.

So a newspaper "ruled" his comments as an "apparent" endorsement. Er...did he go on record like obama and endorse the candidate publicly to the french voters? No he didn't. You're wrong J70.

Interference, covert or not, is still interference. 

If you're having problems with the actual word here's the entry from dictionary.com
Interfere - to take part in the affairs of others; meddle (often followed by with or in):

Exactly what Obama did in the French election. I think that's enough clarification. Democrats are hypocrites.

Not just one newspaper. Numerous.

Besides, just how do you interpret "strongest on borders", "strongest on what's been going on in France", "toughest on radical Islamic terrorism" etc., issues key to Trump's own election and platform, if not an endorsement?

He could just have said "no comment". He didn't. He outlined her perceived strengths in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. That's an endorsement any day of the week.

As for the rest, deny it all you want, but "covert" and "open/public" is a very key difference. Everyone knows where Obama is coming from when he makes an endorsement. There is no secret motivation and the opponent of the endorsed could even wear it as a badge of honour and an angle of attack on the endorsed. Do you think Hillary was upset when David Duke endorsed Trump? Or Newt Gingrich or the entire Fox News team? Or Trump when some celeb endorsed Hillary?

Whereas the hacking and selective publication of emails, targeting only one side, leaves one side with a clear advantage and the other at a major disadvantage.

All of the above you wrote is irrelevant. The point is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.
Democrats can't quite grasp the hypocrisy of their position.

You're just trying to divert attention away from that fact rather than just agree.
Anyway, you keep believing your own version. Seems par for the course for democrats these days.
Block free speech, riot at public gatherings, hysterical protests etc.

People have been endorsing people in other countries forever. Seriously, who would have given a bollocks if Putin had just come out and publicly endorsed Trump, whatever his motivation? Hell, Hillary could have made an ad of it.

So no, what I wrote above is absolutely relevant.

As for the rest, if and when I express approval of rioting or shutting down campuses over Ann f**king Coulter, you can smear me. Otherwise, stick to the substance.

Anne Coulter has an opinion contrary to be bleeding hearts of the looney left, why can they not respect freedom of speech, why can they not simply ignore her and why do the f**kers need to throw the rattle out of the pram and act the collective ****?

Ann Coulter is the personification of "looney", or at least her act is. But she should be allowed to speak and she should be subject to the full free speech rights of the audience. Hold a peaceful protest, report on her nonsense and get in there and challenge her face to face.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 08:10:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 07:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.

So a newspaper "ruled" his comments as an "apparent" endorsement. Er...did he go on record like obama and endorse the candidate publicly to the french voters? No he didn't. You're wrong J70.

Interference, covert or not, is still interference. 

If you're having problems with the actual word here's the entry from dictionary.com
Interfere - to take part in the affairs of others; meddle (often followed by with or in):

Exactly what Obama did in the French election. I think that's enough clarification. Democrats are hypocrites.

Not just one newspaper. Numerous.

Besides, just how do you interpret "strongest on borders", "strongest on what's been going on in France", "toughest on radical Islamic terrorism" etc., issues key to Trump's own election and platform, if not an endorsement?

He could just have said "no comment". He didn't. He outlined her perceived strengths in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. That's an endorsement any day of the week.

As for the rest, deny it all you want, but "covert" and "open/public" is a very key difference. Everyone knows where Obama is coming from when he makes an endorsement. There is no secret motivation and the opponent of the endorsed could even wear it as a badge of honour and an angle of attack on the endorsed. Do you think Hillary was upset when David Duke endorsed Trump? Or Newt Gingrich or the entire Fox News team? Or Trump when some celeb endorsed Hillary?

Whereas the hacking and selective publication of emails, targeting only one side, leaves one side with a clear advantage and the other at a major disadvantage.

All of the above you wrote is irrelevant. The point is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.
Democrats can't quite grasp the hypocrisy of their position.

You're just trying to divert attention away from that fact rather than just agree.
Anyway, you keep believing your own version. Seems par for the course for democrats these days.
Block free speech, riot at public gatherings, hysterical protests etc.

People have been endorsing people in other countries forever. Seriously, who would have given a bollocks if Putin had just come out and publicly endorsed Trump, whatever his motivation? Hell, Hillary could have made an ad of it.

So no, what I wrote above is absolutely relevant.

As for the rest, if and when I express approval of rioting or shutting down campuses over Ann f**king Coulter, you can smear me. Otherwise, stick to the substance.

Please furnish me with a similar video to the one obama endorsed Macron.

We're not talking about some 3rd world backwater.

WHY did obama feel the need to get involved? It's not like himself and Macron have been buddies for years, he hardly knows the guy.

Free speech on our terms. Gotta love it!






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 08:12:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 11, 2017, 07:57:22 PM
Quote from: stew on May 11, 2017, 07:56:02 PM
Anne Coulter has an opinion contrary to be bleeding hearts of the looney left, why can they not respect freedom of speech, why can they not simply ignore her and why do the f**kers need to throw the rattle out of the pram and act the collective ****?

Anne Coulter chickened out and decided not to go to Berkeley. Scuttling off like the tail-tucked rodent she is.

Reminds me of you and your recent avoidance of my question ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 08:21:20 PM
Quote from: stew on May 11, 2017, 07:56:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 07:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.

So a newspaper "ruled" his comments as an "apparent" endorsement. Er...did he go on record like obama and endorse the candidate publicly to the french voters? No he didn't. You're wrong J70.

Interference, covert or not, is still interference. 

If you're having problems with the actual word here's the entry from dictionary.com
Interfere - to take part in the affairs of others; meddle (often followed by with or in):

Exactly what Obama did in the French election. I think that's enough clarification. Democrats are hypocrites.

Not just one newspaper. Numerous.

Besides, just how do you interpret "strongest on borders", "strongest on what's been going on in France", "toughest on radical Islamic terrorism" etc., issues key to Trump's own election and platform, if not an endorsement?

He could just have said "no comment". He didn't. He outlined her perceived strengths in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. That's an endorsement any day of the week.

As for the rest, deny it all you want, but "covert" and "open/public" is a very key difference. Everyone knows where Obama is coming from when he makes an endorsement. There is no secret motivation and the opponent of the endorsed could even wear it as a badge of honour and an angle of attack on the endorsed. Do you think Hillary was upset when David Duke endorsed Trump? Or Newt Gingrich or the entire Fox News team? Or Trump when some celeb endorsed Hillary?

Whereas the hacking and selective publication of emails, targeting only one side, leaves one side with a clear advantage and the other at a major disadvantage.

All of the above you wrote is irrelevant. The point is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.
Democrats can't quite grasp the hypocrisy of their position.

You're just trying to divert attention away from that fact rather than just agree.
Anyway, you keep believing your own version. Seems par for the course for democrats these days.
Block free speech, riot at public gatherings, hysterical protests etc.

People have been endorsing people in other countries forever. Seriously, who would have given a bollocks if Putin had just come out and publicly endorsed Trump, whatever his motivation? Hell, Hillary could have made an ad of it.

So no, what I wrote above is absolutely relevant.

As for the rest, if and when I express approval of rioting or shutting down campuses over Ann f**king Coulter, you can smear me. Otherwise, stick to the substance.

Anne Coulter has an opinion contrary to be bleeding hearts of the looney left, why can they not respect freedom of speech, why can they not simply ignore her and why do the f**kers need to throw the rattle out of the pram and act the collective ****?
Coulter is very disappointed with Trumpety Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO0Eh4Q_i-U 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 08:47:21 PM
2 quotes from Youtube


Blowen Loadzil
Honestly Trump could nuke the US and his supporters would still vote for him

SCil
When you vote a turd into office don't be surprised you get an administration that stinks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 08:52:23 PM
Colbert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q47sFg_WFus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 09:23:50 PM
Twitter is very interesting.

@sahilkapur

It's often asked what it'd take for Republicans to seriously go against Trump. Pretty simple: his poll numbers w/ GOP voters have to crash.

@sahilkapur  5 h

As long as Trump remains popular w/ GOP base, Republicans will be reluctant to meaningfully take him on, regardless of what he says or does.

Greg Sargent‏
@ThePlumLineGS  The Comey firing actually fits into a broad pattern. Trump does something rooted in impulse and emotion; aides then have to justify it:

Norman Ornstein‏ @NormOrnstein  24 h

Because having a non-politician as
president is working out so well

Keith Johnsen‏
@johnsen50
I think the challenge is less that we elected a non-politician and more that we elected someone with zero integrity

Norman Ornstein‏ @NormOrnstein 
It is both. We have a kleptocracy, autocracy and kakistocracy rolled into one. But latter is amplified by Admin filled with non-politicians

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on May 11, 2017, 11:27:08 PM
This is comedy gold

http://www.economist.com/Trumptranscript?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/transcriptinterviewwithdonaldtrump

He is the POTUS. Jaysus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 08:10:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 07:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2017, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 11, 2017, 05:07:57 PM

Even the Telegraph ruled his comments as an endorsement of LePen! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/donald-trump-wades-french-election-apparent-endorsement-marine/)

As for the difference between an open, public, endorsement and covert, unclaimed, leaking of embarrassing emails, I've gone through it twice already. If you don't want to concede the bleeding obvious, suit yourself.

On investigating the Russian interference, which EVERYONE bar Trump concedes occurred, if Trump and his acolytes did nothing wrong, surely they should welcome a transparent investigation?

On partisanship, we had about ten different congressional investigations into Benghazi, with Congressman Kevin McCarthy, one of the top men in the House, letting slip that it was being done purely to harm Hillary Clinton's election prospects. Whereas here, even some GOP Senators are calling for special prosecutor at this point.

So a newspaper "ruled" his comments as an "apparent" endorsement. Er...did he go on record like obama and endorse the candidate publicly to the french voters? No he didn't. You're wrong J70.

Interference, covert or not, is still interference. 

If you're having problems with the actual word here's the entry from dictionary.com
Interfere - to take part in the affairs of others; meddle (often followed by with or in):

Exactly what Obama did in the French election. I think that's enough clarification. Democrats are hypocrites.

Not just one newspaper. Numerous.

Besides, just how do you interpret "strongest on borders", "strongest on what's been going on in France", "toughest on radical Islamic terrorism" etc., issues key to Trump's own election and platform, if not an endorsement?

He could just have said "no comment". He didn't. He outlined her perceived strengths in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. That's an endorsement any day of the week.

As for the rest, deny it all you want, but "covert" and "open/public" is a very key difference. Everyone knows where Obama is coming from when he makes an endorsement. There is no secret motivation and the opponent of the endorsed could even wear it as a badge of honour and an angle of attack on the endorsed. Do you think Hillary was upset when David Duke endorsed Trump? Or Newt Gingrich or the entire Fox News team? Or Trump when some celeb endorsed Hillary?

Whereas the hacking and selective publication of emails, targeting only one side, leaves one side with a clear advantage and the other at a major disadvantage.

All of the above you wrote is irrelevant. The point is that Obama interfered in a foreign election.
Democrats can't quite grasp the hypocrisy of their position.

You're just trying to divert attention away from that fact rather than just agree.
Anyway, you keep believing your own version. Seems par for the course for democrats these days.
Block free speech, riot at public gatherings, hysterical protests etc.

People have been endorsing people in other countries forever. Seriously, who would have given a bollocks if Putin had just come out and publicly endorsed Trump, whatever his motivation? Hell, Hillary could have made an ad of it.

So no, what I wrote above is absolutely relevant.

As for the rest, if and when I express approval of rioting or shutting down campuses over Ann f**king Coulter, you can smear me. Otherwise, stick to the substance.

Please furnish me with a similar video to the one obama endorsed Macron.

We're not talking about some 3rd world backwater.

WHY did obama feel the need to get involved? It's not like himself and Macron have been buddies for years, he hardly knows the guy.

Free speech on our terms. Gotta love it!

I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 12, 2017, 04:49:44 AM
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/us/politics/trump-comey-showboat-fbi.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 12, 2017, 08:32:24 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_nAZYgXoAAB20q.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 12, 2017, 10:25:59 AM
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/trump-is-trying-to-control-the-fbi-its-time-to-freak-out.html

Donald Trump's most consistent belief – even more consistent than his skepticism of international trade, which has waned on occasion – is his worship of power. He is not merely willing to do business with despots, as most presidents have been. He admires them because of, not despite, their despotism. His repeated refusal during the campaign to accept the legitimacy of the election ("rigged"), his promises to jail his opponent, and his intermingling of state power and personal profit all suggested a threat to the health of the republic. Now that threat has arrived. And if Republicans in Congress continue to cover for his actions, the damage to the health of American government may be longstanding.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 12, 2017, 10:46:17 AM
https://www.vox.com/2017/5/11/15622900/trump-economist-interview
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on May 12, 2017, 06:03:17 PM
The law firm Trump hired to clear him of ties with Russia were named Law Firm of the Year in Russia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 12, 2017, 06:37:06 PM
What a clusterfuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi8HrGazUDw

This from almost a year ago is so on the ball.

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/06/09/trump-hidden-psychology-election-crisis/

•   It's by now clear that the presidential election of 2016 is something larger than and apart from just another quadrennial contest for the highest office; it's a national crisis. The crisis will last as long as there's a possibility that someone totally unsuited for that office could win it. It should have been in the case of Richard Nixon, but before he ran for president again in 1968 (having lost in 1960, and also having been defeated for governor of California in 1962) he managed to convince various journalists that there was a "new Nixon." It was only much later—too late—that we could see that Nixon's psycho-political flaws went very deep; that the combination of his resentments and unscrupulousness, not to mention his attraction to the bottle, would take this country into alarming international and domestic crises.
•   A big difference between Nixon and Trump is that Trump's flaws—his impulsiveness, his ignorance, his lack of understanding of the important effects of what he says—are right out there before us while Nixon kept his hidden until we discovered them on the White House tapes. Thus, after months of encouraging violence in his rallies, when violence occurs outside of them, even if caused by his opponents, Trump can't see that he has any responsibility for it. Much of Trump's behavior is like that of the schoolyard boy who feels he must punch back when he's been criticized. His cruel mocking of a reporter's disability wasn't something a grownup does. Trump doesn't have mature relationships with women: he views them as objects. His marriages are those of someone who needs a beauty on his arm in a display of his virility rather than an equal partner who can challenge him. (Compare his choice of wives with those of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.) 
•   I've talked with medical people, including psychiatrists, about Trump. They all use a somewhat different term: that Trump has a "narcissistic personality disorder," which is a problem several degrees greater than mere narcissism. As opposed to being simply self-centered and pleased with himself, the person with the narcissistic personality disorder has an outsized need for approval, and can become seriously upset if he doesn't get his way. This person, the medical experts tell me, tends to be very immature and has a great compulsion to hit back.
•   Trump just doesn't appear to have become a fully-formed adult. He is unable to deal in nuance or seem to understand how much of life, and certainly governing, involves compromise. He wants his way and when he doesn't get it the result is a temper tantrum of some sort. The Freudians would say that Trump is all id, the id that's never been brought to heel. Among Trump's other worrisome traits is that he shows no inclination to have a rational discussion of differences; that if someone disagrees with him publicly he attacks. How can such a person deal with Congress, not to mention foreign countries?

•   Trump's verbal assaults on Judge Gonzalo P. Curiel, whom he charged was unable to give him a fair trial because he's "of Mexican heritage" (though the judge was born and raised in Indiana to Mexican parents) and, as Trump repeatedly explained, as if he had to, "I'm going to build a wall," sent the Republican leaders and many of their troops into panic mode.

•   Paul Ryan was the most pathetic case of a a Republican politician trying to maintain a moral position in regard to Trump's racist assault on the judge, and failing. After the House speaker became the lone holdout among Republican leaders from supporting Trump, he wrote an op-ed in his local Wisconsin newspaper on June 2 saying he'll vote for him.

•   It took the direct Lindsey Graham, who'd already made it clear that he didn't find Trump a tolerable nominee, to put it to his party colleagues for rationalizing their continuing support for Trump: he called Trump's comments about Judge Curiel "the most un-American thing from a politician since Joseph McCarthy." Graham urged Republicans to abandon Trump: "If anybody was looking for an off-ramp, this is probably it," Graham said, adding, "There'll come a time when the love of country will trump hatred of Hillary."

•   The real test is whether there are any circumstances under which Republican leaders in Congress will finally stand up to Trump, renounce him as their party's standard bearer even if they can't cancel his nomination. This could mean risking that their party loses the election and their majorities in the House and the Senate. This is a length to which the congressional leaders Ryan, Mitch McConnell, and some others who've endorsed Trump or waffled—not opposing but not endorsing—have thus far been unwilling to go.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 12, 2017, 08:32:31 PM
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/12/15621140/interpret-trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 13, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

Scale?? What, it makes a huge difference that Obama recorded a video and, say, Bill Clinton endorsing Gordon Brown didn't?

Regardless, this is all beside the point anyway.

You're the one hanging your hat on the Obama endorsement and the hack/drip of the emails being the same thing, because they're both "interference".

Its like saying stealing a loaf of bread is equivalent to committing a murder because they are both criminal offenses.

It basically doesn't make one bit of difference whether or not Obama is the first foreign leader ever to endorse a political candidate. Its not the same thing as the hacking/selective publishing of private emails.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Let's use YOUR apparent standard here for a minute. You apparently have political causes in common with the US right wing, which currently includes Trump and the alt-right/white supremacists, whose sudden upsurge in US college campus activity is what is partly driving the overreaction to controversial right wing speakers. If you can lump all liberals into unthinking, uncritical automotons based on some immature college kids taking the bait when some lowlifes try to rile up students on a campus, then I can certainly lump you in with Trump and the David Dukes, Richard Spencers and Andrew Anglins of this world.

So, once again, if and when I raise objections to some right wing speaker even being allowed to speak, feel free to question my commitment to free speech. Otherwise, its irrelevant to any points I've made i.e. a red herring.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 13, 2017, 09:25:02 PM
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/11/15624544/fbi-trump-comey-war
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2017, 02:15:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

Scale?? What, it makes a huge difference that Obama recorded a video and, say, Bill Clinton endorsing Gordon Brown didn't?

Regardless, this is all beside the point anyway.

You're the one hanging your hat on the Obama endorsement and the hack/drip of the emails being the same thing, because they're both "interference".

Its like saying stealing a loaf of bread is equivalent to committing a murder because they are both criminal offenses.

It basically doesn't make one bit of difference whether or not Obama is the first foreign leader ever to endorse a political candidate. Its not the same thing as the hacking/selective publishing of private emails.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Let's use YOUR apparent standard here for a minute. You apparently have political causes in common with the US right wing, which currently includes Trump and the alt-right/white supremacists, whose sudden upsurge in US college campus activity is what is partly driving the overreaction to controversial right wing speakers. If you can lump all liberals into unthinking, uncritical automotons based on some immature college kids taking the bait when some lowlifes try to rile up students on a campus, then I can certainly lump you in with Trump and the David Dukes, Richard Spencers and Andrew Anglins of this world.

So, once again, if and when I raise objections to some right wing speaker even being allowed to speak, feel free to question my commitment to free speech. Otherwise, its irrelevant to any points I've made i.e. a red herring.

Obama went over bang smack in the middle of the Brexit campaign and publicly stated that should the UK vote for Brexit, "they would go to the back of the line" in terms of a trade deal with the United States


Please explain how that is NOT an interference in the democratic process of a sovereign nation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 14, 2017, 03:10:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 02:15:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

Scale?? What, it makes a huge difference that Obama recorded a video and, say, Bill Clinton endorsing Gordon Brown didn't?

Regardless, this is all beside the point anyway.

You're the one hanging your hat on the Obama endorsement and the hack/drip of the emails being the same thing, because they're both "interference".

Its like saying stealing a loaf of bread is equivalent to committing a murder because they are both criminal offenses.

It basically doesn't make one bit of difference whether or not Obama is the first foreign leader ever to endorse a political candidate. Its not the same thing as the hacking/selective publishing of private emails.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Let's use YOUR apparent standard here for a minute. You apparently have political causes in common with the US right wing, which currently includes Trump and the alt-right/white supremacists, whose sudden upsurge in US college campus activity is what is partly driving the overreaction to controversial right wing speakers. If you can lump all liberals into unthinking, uncritical automotons based on some immature college kids taking the bait when some lowlifes try to rile up students on a campus, then I can certainly lump you in with Trump and the David Dukes, Richard Spencers and Andrew Anglins of this world.

So, once again, if and when I raise objections to some right wing speaker even being allowed to speak, feel free to question my commitment to free speech. Otherwise, its irrelevant to any points I've made i.e. a red herring.

Obama went over bang smack in the middle of the Brexit campaign and publicly stated that should the UK vote for Brexit, "they would go to the back of the line" in terms of a trade deal with the United States


Please explain how that is NOT an interference in the democratic process of a sovereign nation?



The Prez did what he liked when he liked, for the most part he was complete and utter shite, with the odd moment of brilliance thrown in,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 05:11:45 AM
Trump doesn't have the temperament to be Prez

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/us/politics/election-is-over-but-trump-still-cant-seem-to-get-past-it.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 14, 2017, 06:13:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

J70, why do you dignify this troll with a response. He spouts nonsense ... just read the last paragraph and it makes no sense.. It's Charlie Brown Wha,Wha, Wha, Wha.....
He is always demanding answers and never answers a question. You are a kind man to devote time to trying to talk sense to a "Birther" who is so invested in belittling democracy, decency and facts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on May 14, 2017, 08:49:09 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2017, 06:13:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

J70, why do you dignify this troll with a response. He spouts nonsense ... just read the last paragraph and it makes no sense.. It's Charlie Brown Wha,Wha, Wha, Wha.....
He is always demanding answers and never answers a question. You are a kind man to devote time to trying to talk sense to a "Birther" who is so invested in belittling democracy, decency and facts.

+1. I've been surprised that J70 keeps engaging with that character. In my opinion, to respond to the moronic but vicious nonsense he spouts seems to lend it some kind of legitimacy. When you use the ignore button the temptation to respond is non-existent. There's nothing to respond to. If everyone had him and his ilk on ignore, their narrow-minded ranting would be just shouting at the mirror.

Then again, who am I to talk? I've been known to respond to Tony Fearon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 09:24:16 AM
SNL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbpUcfpbnrs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2017, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 02:15:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

Scale?? What, it makes a huge difference that Obama recorded a video and, say, Bill Clinton endorsing Gordon Brown didn't?

Regardless, this is all beside the point anyway.

You're the one hanging your hat on the Obama endorsement and the hack/drip of the emails being the same thing, because they're both "interference".

Its like saying stealing a loaf of bread is equivalent to committing a murder because they are both criminal offenses.

It basically doesn't make one bit of difference whether or not Obama is the first foreign leader ever to endorse a political candidate. Its not the same thing as the hacking/selective publishing of private emails.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Let's use YOUR apparent standard here for a minute. You apparently have political causes in common with the US right wing, which currently includes Trump and the alt-right/white supremacists, whose sudden upsurge in US college campus activity is what is partly driving the overreaction to controversial right wing speakers. If you can lump all liberals into unthinking, uncritical automotons based on some immature college kids taking the bait when some lowlifes try to rile up students on a campus, then I can certainly lump you in with Trump and the David Dukes, Richard Spencers and Andrew Anglins of this world.

So, once again, if and when I raise objections to some right wing speaker even being allowed to speak, feel free to question my commitment to free speech. Otherwise, its irrelevant to any points I've made i.e. a red herring.

Obama went over bang smack in the middle of the Brexit campaign and publicly stated that should the UK vote for Brexit, "they would go to the back of the line" in terms of a trade deal with the United States


Please explain how that is NOT an interference in the democratic process of a sovereign nation?

Why don't YOU explain how openly laying out a possible consequence of the vote is the same as secretly hacking and selectively leaking emails to sabotage one side?

Do I need to spell out the loaf of bread/murder analogy again?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 03:19:46 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-must-be-impeached-heres-why/2017/05/13/82ce2ea4-374d-11e7-b4ee-434b6d506b37_story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2017, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2017, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 02:15:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

Scale?? What, it makes a huge difference that Obama recorded a video and, say, Bill Clinton endorsing Gordon Brown didn't?

Regardless, this is all beside the point anyway.

You're the one hanging your hat on the Obama endorsement and the hack/drip of the emails being the same thing, because they're both "interference".

Its like saying stealing a loaf of bread is equivalent to committing a murder because they are both criminal offenses.

It basically doesn't make one bit of difference whether or not Obama is the first foreign leader ever to endorse a political candidate. Its not the same thing as the hacking/selective publishing of private emails.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Let's use YOUR apparent standard here for a minute. You apparently have political causes in common with the US right wing, which currently includes Trump and the alt-right/white supremacists, whose sudden upsurge in US college campus activity is what is partly driving the overreaction to controversial right wing speakers. If you can lump all liberals into unthinking, uncritical automotons based on some immature college kids taking the bait when some lowlifes try to rile up students on a campus, then I can certainly lump you in with Trump and the David Dukes, Richard Spencers and Andrew Anglins of this world.

So, once again, if and when I raise objections to some right wing speaker even being allowed to speak, feel free to question my commitment to free speech. Otherwise, its irrelevant to any points I've made i.e. a red herring.

Obama went over bang smack in the middle of the Brexit campaign and publicly stated that should the UK vote for Brexit, "they would go to the back of the line" in terms of a trade deal with the United States


Please explain how that is NOT an interference in the democratic process of a sovereign nation?

Why don't YOU explain how openly laying out a possible consequence of the vote is the same as secretly hacking and selectively leaking emails to sabotage one side?

Do I need to spell out the loaf of bread/murder analogy again?

He issued a direct threat that they would be punished if they didn't vote in the way he wanted.

You are intentionally obscuring the issue......no one is denying "interference" by Russia, but you (and most Democrats) I know, conveniently ignore the fact that Mr Obama also took it upon himself to "interfere" in the affairs of another sovereign nation.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2017, 05:39:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2017, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 02:15:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

Scale?? What, it makes a huge difference that Obama recorded a video and, say, Bill Clinton endorsing Gordon Brown didn't?

Regardless, this is all beside the point anyway.

You're the one hanging your hat on the Obama endorsement and the hack/drip of the emails being the same thing, because they're both "interference".

Its like saying stealing a loaf of bread is equivalent to committing a murder because they are both criminal offenses.

It basically doesn't make one bit of difference whether or not Obama is the first foreign leader ever to endorse a political candidate. Its not the same thing as the hacking/selective publishing of private emails.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Let's use YOUR apparent standard here for a minute. You apparently have political causes in common with the US right wing, which currently includes Trump and the alt-right/white supremacists, whose sudden upsurge in US college campus activity is what is partly driving the overreaction to controversial right wing speakers. If you can lump all liberals into unthinking, uncritical automotons based on some immature college kids taking the bait when some lowlifes try to rile up students on a campus, then I can certainly lump you in with Trump and the David Dukes, Richard Spencers and Andrew Anglins of this world.

So, once again, if and when I raise objections to some right wing speaker even being allowed to speak, feel free to question my commitment to free speech. Otherwise, its irrelevant to any points I've made i.e. a red herring.

Obama went over bang smack in the middle of the Brexit campaign and publicly stated that should the UK vote for Brexit, "they would go to the back of the line" in terms of a trade deal with the United States


Please explain how that is NOT an interference in the democratic process of a sovereign nation?

Why don't YOU explain how openly laying out a possible consequence of the vote is the same as secretly hacking and selectively leaking emails to sabotage one side?

Do I need to spell out the loaf of bread/murder analogy again?

He issued a direct threat that they would be punished if they didn't vote in the way he wanted.

You are intentionally obscuring the issue......no one is denying "interference" by Russia, but you (and most Democrats) I know, conveniently ignore the fact that Mr Obama also took it upon himself to "interfere" in the affairs of another sovereign nation.

The US was in the middle of the controversy over TPP and trade deals were very much part of the political dialogue given Trump's positions. Given that trade deals that were absolutely an issue if the UK withdrew from the EU as well, why wouldn't Obama bring the issue up? Should the UK public NOT be aware of what might be at stake? At the same time, Trump was saying that British membership of the EU was a "disaster". Which is fine. He is entitled to weigh in with his opinion, which he owned. I'm sure the likes of Farage and his followers were delighted.

The only people obscuring the issue are those who are equating the secret targeting of emails to damage one side with open, public endorsements and engagement.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 06:44:20 PM
Talk about Obama and Brexit for 2 weeks. Don't mention Comey
Rinse and repeat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2017, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2017, 05:39:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2017, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 02:15:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

Scale?? What, it makes a huge difference that Obama recorded a video and, say, Bill Clinton endorsing Gordon Brown didn't?

Regardless, this is all beside the point anyway.

You're the one hanging your hat on the Obama endorsement and the hack/drip of the emails being the same thing, because they're both "interference".

Its like saying stealing a loaf of bread is equivalent to committing a murder because they are both criminal offenses.

It basically doesn't make one bit of difference whether or not Obama is the first foreign leader ever to endorse a political candidate. Its not the same thing as the hacking/selective publishing of private emails.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Let's use YOUR apparent standard here for a minute. You apparently have political causes in common with the US right wing, which currently includes Trump and the alt-right/white supremacists, whose sudden upsurge in US college campus activity is what is partly driving the overreaction to controversial right wing speakers. If you can lump all liberals into unthinking, uncritical automotons based on some immature college kids taking the bait when some lowlifes try to rile up students on a campus, then I can certainly lump you in with Trump and the David Dukes, Richard Spencers and Andrew Anglins of this world.

So, once again, if and when I raise objections to some right wing speaker even being allowed to speak, feel free to question my commitment to free speech. Otherwise, its irrelevant to any points I've made i.e. a red herring.

Obama went over bang smack in the middle of the Brexit campaign and publicly stated that should the UK vote for Brexit, "they would go to the back of the line" in terms of a trade deal with the United States


Please explain how that is NOT an interference in the democratic process of a sovereign nation?

Why don't YOU explain how openly laying out a possible consequence of the vote is the same as secretly hacking and selectively leaking emails to sabotage one side?

Do I need to spell out the loaf of bread/murder analogy again?

He issued a direct threat that they would be punished if they didn't vote in the way he wanted.

You are intentionally obscuring the issue......no one is denying "interference" by Russia, but you (and most Democrats) I know, conveniently ignore the fact that Mr Obama also took it upon himself to "interfere" in the affairs of another sovereign nation.

The US was in the middle of the controversy over TPP and trade deals were very much part of the political dialogue given Trump's positions. Given that trade deals that were absolutely an issue if the UK withdrew from the EU as well, why wouldn't Obama bring the issue up? Should the UK public NOT be aware of what might be at stake? At the same time, Trump was saying that British membership of the EU was a "disaster". Which is fine. He is entitled to weigh in with his opinion, which he owned. I'm sure the likes of Farage and his followers were delighted.

The only people obscuring the issue are those who are equating the secret targeting of emails to damage one side with open, public endorsements and engagement.

Horse manure....Obama was within 6 months of the end of his term and would have no input in deciding who was at the front and who was at the back of the line.  Some people think Obama's ill timed comments actually helped the Out campaign
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2017, 07:10:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 06:44:20 PM
Talk about Obama and Brexit for 2 weeks. Don't mention Comey
Rinse and repeat

Kinda like Bill Clinton's treatment of women, Democrats have very selective memories when it comes to which "outrages" to set their hair on fire over.

Bottom line is the Democrats lost a very winnable election by annointing a crap candidate who was foisted onto the ticket by the party elites.  They need someone to blame and invented this whole Russian collusion red herring to deflect blame from where it truly lies.....on themselves and their butt budies in the main stream media.

There was contact between the Trump campaign and the Russians during the election in the same way there was contact between the Clinton campaign and the Russians.  The idea that there was some "collusion" is just fabricated nonsense. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/02/18/no-one-mentions-that-the-russian-trail-leads-to-democratic-lobbyists/#3eb9f83b3991

Of course Trumps mishandling of everything from Flynn to Sessions to the Comey firing is just throwing fuel on the fire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 07:10:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 06:44:20 PM
Talk about Obama and Brexit for 2 weeks. Don't mention Comey
Rinse and repeat

Kinda like Bill Clinton's treatment of women, Democrats have very selective memories when it comes to which "outrages" to set their hair on fire over.

Bottom line is the Democrats lost a very winnable election by annointing a crap candidate who was foisted onto the ticket by the party elites.  They need someone to blame and invented this whole Russian collusion red herring to deflect blame from where it truly lies.....on themselves and their butt budies in the main stream media.

There was contact between the Trump campaign and the Russians during the election in the same way there was contact between the Clinton campaign and the Russians.  The idea that there was some "collusion" is just fabricated nonsense. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/02/18/no-one-mentions-that-the-russian-trail-leads-to-democratic-lobbyists/#3eb9f83b3991

Of course Trumps mishandling of everything from Flynn to Sessions to the Comey firing is just throwing fuel on the fire
The GOP won the election but it looks like they may well lose the Presidency
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 07:33:04 PM
Clapper says US institutions are under assault
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GirDHUKWJJs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2017, 08:11:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 07:10:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 06:44:20 PM
Talk about Obama and Brexit for 2 weeks. Don't mention Comey
Rinse and repeat

Kinda like Bill Clinton's treatment of women, Democrats have very selective memories when it comes to which "outrages" to set their hair on fire over.

Bottom line is the Democrats lost a very winnable election by annointing a crap candidate who was foisted onto the ticket by the party elites.  They need someone to blame and invented this whole Russian collusion red herring to deflect blame from where it truly lies.....on themselves and their butt budies in the main stream media.

There was contact between the Trump campaign and the Russians during the election in the same way there was contact between the Clinton campaign and the Russians.  The idea that there was some "collusion" is just fabricated nonsense. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/02/18/no-one-mentions-that-the-russian-trail-leads-to-democratic-lobbyists/#3eb9f83b3991

Of course Trumps mishandling of everything from Flynn to Sessions to the Comey firing is just throwing fuel on the fire
The GOP won the election but it looks like they may well lose the Presidency

From day 1 the Democrats sought to delegitimize his presidency aided and a beted by the main stream media.  They started out with the sexist card, then pivoted onto the rascist card when that didn't work. They're having a little more success with the Russia card, but my best educated guess is that there's nothing there. 

Hopefully Trump will get another Supreme Court Justice appointed before he gets drummed out of office.....that will be mission accomplished for me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 08:11:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 07:10:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 06:44:20 PM
Talk about Obama and Brexit for 2 weeks. Don't mention Comey
Rinse and repeat

Kinda like Bill Clinton's treatment of women, Democrats have very selective memories when it comes to which "outrages" to set their hair on fire over.

Bottom line is the Democrats lost a very winnable election by annointing a crap candidate who was foisted onto the ticket by the party elites.  They need someone to blame and invented this whole Russian collusion red herring to deflect blame from where it truly lies.....on themselves and their butt budies in the main stream media.

There was contact between the Trump campaign and the Russians during the election in the same way there was contact between the Clinton campaign and the Russians.  The idea that there was some "collusion" is just fabricated nonsense. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/02/18/no-one-mentions-that-the-russian-trail-leads-to-democratic-lobbyists/#3eb9f83b3991

Of course Trumps mishandling of everything from Flynn to Sessions to the Comey firing is just throwing fuel on the fire
The GOP won the election but it looks like they may well lose the Presidency

From day 1 the Democrats sought to delegitimize his presidency aided and a beted by the main stream media.  They started out with the sexist card, then pivoted onto the rascist card when that didn't work. They're having a little more success with the Russia card, but my best educated guess is that there's nothing there. 

Hopefully Trump will get another Supreme Court Justice appointed before he gets drummed out of office.....that will be mission accomplished for me

Trump does most of the damage himself.

David Frum‏ says "It will never be normal" and he is no lefty

David Roberts at VOX says
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/12/15621140/interpret-trump
"In short, what if Trump is exactly as he appears: a hopeless narcissist with the attention span of a fruit fly, unable to maintain consistent beliefs or commitments from moment to moment, acting on base instinct, entirely situationally, to bolster his terrifyingly fragile ego."

The US needs a functioning Republican Party that can uphold the Constitution and work for the benefit of everyone in the country.
It is a pity it doesn't have one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 15, 2017, 04:34:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2017, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 02:15:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

Scale?? What, it makes a huge difference that Obama recorded a video and, say, Bill Clinton endorsing Gordon Brown didn't?

Regardless, this is all beside the point anyway.

You're the one hanging your hat on the Obama endorsement and the hack/drip of the emails being the same thing, because they're both "interference".

Its like saying stealing a loaf of bread is equivalent to committing a murder because they are both criminal offenses.

It basically doesn't make one bit of difference whether or not Obama is the first foreign leader ever to endorse a political candidate. Its not the same thing as the hacking/selective publishing of private emails.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Let's use YOUR apparent standard here for a minute. You apparently have political causes in common with the US right wing, which currently includes Trump and the alt-right/white supremacists, whose sudden upsurge in US college campus activity is what is partly driving the overreaction to controversial right wing speakers. If you can lump all liberals into unthinking, uncritical automotons based on some immature college kids taking the bait when some lowlifes try to rile up students on a campus, then I can certainly lump you in with Trump and the David Dukes, Richard Spencers and Andrew Anglins of this world.

So, once again, if and when I raise objections to some right wing speaker even being allowed to speak, feel free to question my commitment to free speech. Otherwise, its irrelevant to any points I've made i.e. a red herring.

Obama went over bang smack in the middle of the Brexit campaign and publicly stated that should the UK vote for Brexit, "they would go to the back of the line" in terms of a trade deal with the United States


Please explain how that is NOT an interference in the democratic process of a sovereign nation?

Why don't YOU explain how openly laying out a possible consequence of the vote is the same as secretly hacking and selectively leaking emails to sabotage one side?

Do I need to spell out the loaf of bread/murder analogy again?

He issued a direct threat that they would be punished if they didn't vote in the way he wanted.

You are intentionally obscuring the issue......no one is denying "interference" by Russia, but you (and most Democrats) I know, conveniently ignore the fact that Mr Obama also took it upon himself to "interfere" in the affairs of another sovereign nation.

What are you talking about. Obama was simply telling the Brits if they separated themselves from the European Union with whom the US was negotiating a Trade Deal that they would be choosing to be treated separately and put themselves at the back of the bus. You talk out of both sides of your mouth conveniently ignoring facts and context. I sometimes wonder if your teeth don't conveniently consider themselves seriously jeopardized as your random thoughts wander around your mouth on their mystery tour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2017, 07:33:59 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/obamas-charm-offensive-that-wasnt-224792

"This wasn't how aides on both sides of the Atlantic envisioned what would happen when Cameron called Obama last fall to personally ask him to come join the campaign. Obama immediately agreed — the European Union fits his political and economic worldview and the British prime minister has been an important partner. They've even developed a personal rapport."

It's actually very straightforward....Democrats up in arms about supposed interference in US election but completely ignore Obamas interference in the Brexit vote. 

Democrats lost probably the most winnable election in modern times and have invented this "interference" narrative
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 15, 2017, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 07:33:59 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/obamas-charm-offensive-that-wasnt-224792

"This wasn't how aides on both sides of the Atlantic envisioned what would happen when Cameron called Obama last fall to personally ask him to come join the campaign. Obama immediately agreed — the European Union fits his political and economic worldview and the British prime minister has been an important partner. They've even developed a personal rapport."

It's actually very straightforward....Democrats up in arms about supposed interference in US election but completely ignore Obamas interference in the Brexit vote. 

Democrats lost probably the most winnable election in modern times and have invented this "interference" narrative

A lot of people seem to have lost their job at this stage due to something that's been 'invented'!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2017, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 15, 2017, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 07:33:59 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/obamas-charm-offensive-that-wasnt-224792

"This wasn't how aides on both sides of the Atlantic envisioned what would happen when Cameron called Obama last fall to personally ask him to come join the campaign. Obama immediately agreed — the European Union fits his political and economic worldview and the British prime minister has been an important partner. They've even developed a personal rapport."

It's actually very straightforward....Democrats up in arms about supposed interference in US election but completely ignore Obamas interference in the Brexit vote. 

Democrats lost probably the most winnable election in modern times and have invented this "interference" narrative

A lot of people seem to have lost their job at this stage due to something that's been 'invented'!

Who has lost their job due to interference?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2017, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2017, 05:39:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 14, 2017, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2017, 02:15:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

Scale?? What, it makes a huge difference that Obama recorded a video and, say, Bill Clinton endorsing Gordon Brown didn't?

Regardless, this is all beside the point anyway.

You're the one hanging your hat on the Obama endorsement and the hack/drip of the emails being the same thing, because they're both "interference".

Its like saying stealing a loaf of bread is equivalent to committing a murder because they are both criminal offenses.

It basically doesn't make one bit of difference whether or not Obama is the first foreign leader ever to endorse a political candidate. Its not the same thing as the hacking/selective publishing of private emails.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

Let's use YOUR apparent standard here for a minute. You apparently have political causes in common with the US right wing, which currently includes Trump and the alt-right/white supremacists, whose sudden upsurge in US college campus activity is what is partly driving the overreaction to controversial right wing speakers. If you can lump all liberals into unthinking, uncritical automotons based on some immature college kids taking the bait when some lowlifes try to rile up students on a campus, then I can certainly lump you in with Trump and the David Dukes, Richard Spencers and Andrew Anglins of this world.

So, once again, if and when I raise objections to some right wing speaker even being allowed to speak, feel free to question my commitment to free speech. Otherwise, its irrelevant to any points I've made i.e. a red herring.

Obama went over bang smack in the middle of the Brexit campaign and publicly stated that should the UK vote for Brexit, "they would go to the back of the line" in terms of a trade deal with the United States


Please explain how that is NOT an interference in the democratic process of a sovereign nation?

Why don't YOU explain how openly laying out a possible consequence of the vote is the same as secretly hacking and selectively leaking emails to sabotage one side?

Do I need to spell out the loaf of bread/murder analogy again?

He issued a direct threat that they would be punished if they didn't vote in the way he wanted.

You are intentionally obscuring the issue......no one is denying "interference" by Russia, but you (and most Democrats) I know, conveniently ignore the fact that Mr Obama also took it upon himself to "interfere" in the affairs of another sovereign nation.

The US was in the middle of the controversy over TPP and trade deals were very much part of the political dialogue given Trump's positions. Given that trade deals that were absolutely an issue if the UK withdrew from the EU as well, why wouldn't Obama bring the issue up? Should the UK public NOT be aware of what might be at stake? At the same time, Trump was saying that British membership of the EU was a "disaster". Which is fine. He is entitled to weigh in with his opinion, which he owned. I'm sure the likes of Farage and his followers were delighted.

The only people obscuring the issue are those who are equating the secret targeting of emails to damage one side with open, public endorsements and engagement.

Horse manure....Obama was within 6 months of the end of his term and would have no input in deciding who was at the front and who was at the back of the line.  Some people think Obama's ill timed comments actually helped the Out campaign

Right, because Hillary, who was to continue his legacy, including sympathy to the EU, wasn't overwhelming favourite to win the election back then. ::)

But, once again, it is all beside the point anyway. People were free to question Obama and his motives on the issue (and according to you, did just that), just as they were with Trump's comments, because both were OPEN about their statements.

That yourself and foxcommander insist on an like for like equivalency with the hacking is pure sophistry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
Democrats say Republicans don't "pay their fair share" of taxes, yet John Kerry registers his Mega yacht in RI rather than Nantucket to avoid $100ks in excise tax.

Democrats say Republicans have "waged a war on women" , yet completely look the other way at Bill Clintons disgraceful treatment of women.

Democrats say Republicans "are in the pocket of Wall Street", yet their candidate has gotten paid obscene amounts of money to give closed door speeches to o Wall Street Firms

Democrats say that Republicans perpetuate the "gender gap" in pay, yet both the Obama administration and the Clinton campaign pay their female staffers less likely Han their male staffers.

Democrats say the Republicans are not committed to clean energy, yet the Kennedys were major objectors to the Cape Wind project because it would interfere with their yachting activities

Pardon the skeptic in me, but whenever I hear Democrats getting their panties in a bunch about some outrage, I take it with a pinch of salt. 

I'm sure if the media did their fvcking job you'd find that both Podesta and the Clinton Foundation are balls deep with connections to Russia
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 15, 2017, 01:28:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
Democrats say Republicans don't "pay their fair share" of taxes, yet John Kerry registers his Mega yacht in RI rather than Nantucket to avoid $100ks in excise tax.

Republicans have devoted their entire platform to tax cuts and their healthcare proposal cuts taxes to rich people of approx 800 billion...BUT... one Democrat avoided 100k tax

Democrats say Republicans have "waged a war on women" , yet completely look the other way at Bill Clintons disgraceful treatment of women.

Republicans throughout red states have closed or restricted access to reproductive services, and done it in a systemised way, using the same legislation, and on the national stage are set to defund Planned Parenthood, and on the international stage have removed funding from any overseas funding for projects which include access or information on abortion...BUT...Bill Clinton was accused (never convicted) of rape.


Democrats say Republicans "are in the pocket of Wall Street", yet their candidate has gotten paid obscene amounts of money to give closed door speeches to o Wall Street Firm

Goldman Sachs currently supply the Republican administration with a Treasury Sec and two senior advisors, while a billionaire investor in Labour, and another billionaire is at Education, they are also trying to avoid a confirmation hearing for the Comptroller of Currency position, as the present nominee has pledged to reduce the "burden on banks" and dismantle Dodd Frank... BUT...Hillary got paid for speeches she gave as a private citizen.


Democrats say that Republicans perpetuate the "gender gap" in pay, yet both the Obama administration and the Clinton campaign pay their female staffers less likely Han their male staffers.

Wha??? Numbers or links to numbers please

Democrats say the Republicans are not committed to clean energy, yet the Kennedys were major objectors to the Cape Wind project because it would interfere with their yachting activities

Republicans had a climate change denier as their transition to the EPA, have put in place a Director of the EPA who currently has 14 outstanding lawsuits against the EPA and who has stated his opposition to the Paris accords, and have pledged to bring back fossil fuel production such as coal, whilst removing drilling restrictions in national parks and the Arctic, and have also removed the regulations banning the dumping of mining run off in streams and rivers...BUT...the Kennedys are NIMBYS



Pardon the skeptic in me, but whenever I hear Democrats getting their panties in a bunch about some outrage, I take it with a pinch of salt. 

I'm sure if the media did their fvcking job you'd find that both Podesta and the Clinton Foundation are balls deep with connections to Russia

That's not being sceptical, it's being downright stupid, Captain Anecdote.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2017, 01:44:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
Democrats say Republicans don't "pay their fair share" of taxes, yet John Kerry registers his Mega yacht in RI rather than Nantucket to avoid $100ks in excise tax.

Democrats say Republicans have "waged a war on women" , yet completely look the other way at Bill Clintons disgraceful treatment of women.

Democrats say Republicans "are in the pocket of Wall Street", yet their candidate has gotten paid obscene amounts of money to give closed door speeches to o Wall Street Firms

Democrats say that Republicans perpetuate the "gender gap" in pay, yet both the Obama administration and the Clinton campaign pay their female staffers less likely Han their male staffers.

Democrats say the Republicans are not committed to clean energy, yet the Kennedys were major objectors to the Cape Wind project because it would interfere with their yachting activities

Pardon the skeptic in me, but whenever I hear Democrats getting their panties in a bunch about some outrage, I take it with a pinch of salt. 

I'm sure if the media did their fvcking job you'd find that both Podesta and the Clinton Foundation are balls deep with connections to Russia

1. You're confusing (whether deliberately or not) policy and legislation and the personal conduct of Bill Clinton.
2. You're seem to be saying that "rich" = Republican and again confusing legislation and rules for everyone with John Kerry taking advantage of a legal tax loophole.
3. Once again, legislation and Hillary Clinton cleaning up on the speech circuit are separate issues. Only one side wants to loosen the modest constraints on Wall St abuse.
4. Yet again, the Kennedys and their sense of entitlement and alleged NIMBYism is a separate issue from policies and legislation. Which party wants to open up wildlands and seas to fossil fuel and mineral exploitation, wants to defund enticements for green energy development and is generally very hostile to environmental protection?
5. The Podestas and the Clintons must not have very influential connections with the Russians, given that the whole issue is over the hacking of John Podesta's emails and the use of them to damage Clinton's presidential campaign, with the possibility that Trump's crew were involved in coordinating their release.
6. I have no idea on the Obama and Clinton staffer gender pay gap. Perhaps you can provide some more info? Were these like-for-like positions?

Anyone can point to the personal conduct of individuals and shout "hypocrisy"! And that may well be true when it comes to those individuals. Whether you're talking about sanctimonious Republicans on about "family values" or Democrats on about "women's rights", the key is what the party is actually doing about those issues. Hillary Clinton may have been getting 250K for a speech to Goldman Sachs, but she and the Democrats are not the party trying to defang the consumer protection agency or get rid of rules requiring financial advisers to put their clients interests before their own. They are not the party who demonized Goldman Sachs all through the campaign before proceeding to fill the administration with former Goldman Sachs executives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2017, 02:14:06 PM
I see Democrats as similar to the Labour Party in England......they can give me 1,000,000 reasons to not vote for the other guy, but no reasons as to why I should vote for them

I'm not a Republican, I'm an independent whose views leans conservative. I have voted for Dems and Repubs, and have donated money to both. Having lived exclusively in blue states for the past 25 years, I have see first hand what one Party rule leads to and it's not pretty. 

Democrats pretend to be in the corner of the underdog, but really they are all about redistribution of wealth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 15, 2017, 02:47:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 15, 2017, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 07:33:59 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/obamas-charm-offensive-that-wasnt-224792

"This wasn't how aides on both sides of the Atlantic envisioned what would happen when Cameron called Obama last fall to personally ask him to come join the campaign. Obama immediately agreed — the European Union fits his political and economic worldview and the British prime minister has been an important partner. They've even developed a personal rapport."

It's actually very straightforward....Democrats up in arms about supposed interference in US election but completely ignore Obamas interference in the Brexit vote. 

Democrats lost probably the most winnable election in modern times and have invented this "interference" narrative

A lot of people seem to have lost their job at this stage due to something that's been 'invented'!

Who has lost their job due to interference?

Manafort/Comey/Flynn . . .  all fired due to the "Russian Interference" narrative that has supposedly been invented by the Dems.

Surely if there is nothing going on with the Russians there would be no reason for these men to have lost their jobs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2017, 03:12:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 02:14:06 PM
I see Democrats as similar to the Labour Party in England......they can give me 1,000,000 reasons to not vote for the other guy, but no reasons as to why I should vote for them

I'm not a Republican, I'm an independent whose views leans conservative. I have voted for Dems and Repubs, and have donated money to both. Having lived exclusively in blue states for the past 25 years, I have see first hand what one Party rule leads to and it's not pretty. 

Democrats pretend to be in the corner of the underdog, but really they are all about redistribution of wealth

How is that contradictory (leaving aside the supposed "pretend" bit)?

Progressive taxation, robust social services and assistance... that's all about taking money from higher earners and using it combat poverty and the public good.

I agree with the one party rule issue, but that's hardly a Democrats-only problem.

And you don't see ANY reasons to vote FOR the Dems?? Not even one or two?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 15, 2017, 03:18:52 PM
Isn't redistribution of wealth the essence of being in the corner of the underdog. And literally every tax is redistribution of wealth. But carry on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2017, 03:50:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 15, 2017, 03:18:52 PM
Isn't redistribution of wealth the essence of being in the corner of the underdog. And literally every tax is redistribution of wealth. But carry on

But the issue is they're not redistributing it from the wealthy, they're redistributing it from the middle class.  That's why Obamacare was such a clusterfvck for them

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news/economy/obamacare-affordable/

And in the blue states that I've lived in, the Democrats create these huge bureaucracies that divert the tax dollars from where it really should be going (and employ all their second and third cousins with do nothing jobs at the same time)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2017, 04:09:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 03:50:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 15, 2017, 03:18:52 PM
Isn't redistribution of wealth the essence of being in the corner of the underdog. And literally every tax is redistribution of wealth. But carry on

But the issue is they're not redistributing it from the wealthy, they're redistributing it from the middle class.  That's why Obamacare was such a clusterfvck for them

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news/economy/obamacare-affordable/

And in the blue states that I've lived in, the Democrats create these huge bureaucracies that divert the tax dollars from where it really should be going (and employ all their second and third cousins with do nothing jobs at the same time)

Now you're just getting hysterical! ;D You're claiming that the Dems are basically an Italian organized crime organization creating no-show jobs for the boys!

And health care premiums are NOT taxes. Perhaps the government subsidies should be extended to higher incomes than currently to help these people, but I seriously doubt that you personally would support that (I'm f**king positive the politicians you support don't support that!).

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2017, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2017, 04:09:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 03:50:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 15, 2017, 03:18:52 PM
Isn't redistribution of wealth the essence of being in the corner of the underdog. And literally every tax is redistribution of wealth. But carry on

But the issue is they're not redistributing it from the wealthy, they're redistributing it from the middle class.  That's why Obamacare was such a clusterfvck for them

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news/economy/obamacare-affordable/

And in the blue states that I've lived in, the Democrats create these huge bureaucracies that divert the tax dollars from where it really should be going (and employ all their second and third cousins with do nothing jobs at the same time)

Now you're just getting hysterical! ;D You're claiming that the Dems are basically an Italian organized crime organization creating no-show jobs for the boys!

And health care premiums are NOT taxes. Perhaps the government subsidies should be extended to higher incomes than currently to help these people, but I seriously doubt that you personally would support that (I'm f**king positive the politicians you support don't support that!).

Oh....I'm deadly serious.  I just happened to be out in Chicago for work when this story broke

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-pat-quinn-idot-patronage-madigan-edit-0430-20170428-story,amp.html

" Never was told, never got a resume to find something or interview." — Klemz after being instructed to onboard an "emergency" hire who was the stepdaughter of Lightford, D-Maywood. The candidate, whose most recent job was as a FedEx package handler, displaced a lawyer already chosen for the job."



I have extended family members who work for the State of MA and they can pretty much get anyone who's politically connected a job doing fvck all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 15, 2017, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2017, 04:09:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 03:50:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 15, 2017, 03:18:52 PM
Isn't redistribution of wealth the essence of being in the corner of the underdog. And literally every tax is redistribution of wealth. But carry on

But the issue is they're not redistributing it from the wealthy, they're redistributing it from the middle class.  That's why Obamacare was such a clusterfvck for them

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news/economy/obamacare-affordable/

And in the blue states that I've lived in, the Democrats create these huge bureaucracies that divert the tax dollars from where it really should be going (and employ all their second and third cousins with do nothing jobs at the same time)

Now you're just getting hysterical! ;D You're claiming that the Dems are basically an Italian organized crime organization creating no-show jobs for the boys!

And health care premiums are NOT taxes. Perhaps the government subsidies should be extended to higher incomes than currently to help these people, but I seriously doubt that you personally would support that (I'm f**king positive the politicians you support don't support that!).

Oh....I'm deadly serious.  I just happened to be out in Chicago for work when this story broke

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-pat-quinn-idot-patronage-madigan-edit-0430-20170428-story,amp.html

" Never was told, never got a resume to find something or interview." — Klemz after being instructed to onboard an "emergency" hire who was the stepdaughter of Lightford, D-Maywood. The candidate, whose most recent job was as a FedEx package handler, displaced a lawyer already chosen for the job."



I have extended family members who work for the State of MA and they can pretty much get anyone who's politically connected a job doing fvck all

That's a very sobering and disturbing read. Quinn's administration was appalling. Quinn's administration was patently wrong but thank god not the way most of our State Governments are run.

However you choose to miss the point.
This country built the greatest engine for working class upward mobility on the back of a progressive tax system and intelligent infrastructure spending between the mid 1930's up to the Reagan administration. 

Regan changed all of that .. he convinced enough working people with a toxic mix of racism and the fantasy that they were all going to be taxed to death when they became millionaires; that Government was bad and paying taxes was even worse. Check the economic metrics for the US, 1935 to 1980 and compare to the same metrics from 1980 to date and you will see the stark difference in income growth for the working class.

But I forgot you don't do numbers just anecdotes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2017, 06:17:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2017, 04:09:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 03:50:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 15, 2017, 03:18:52 PM
Isn't redistribution of wealth the essence of being in the corner of the underdog. And literally every tax is redistribution of wealth. But carry on

But the issue is they're not redistributing it from the wealthy, they're redistributing it from the middle class.  That's why Obamacare was such a clusterfvck for them

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news/economy/obamacare-affordable/

And in the blue states that I've lived in, the Democrats create these huge bureaucracies that divert the tax dollars from where it really should be going (and employ all their second and third cousins with do nothing jobs at the same time)

Now you're just getting hysterical! ;D You're claiming that the Dems are basically an Italian organized crime organization creating no-show jobs for the boys!

And health care premiums are NOT taxes. Perhaps the government subsidies should be extended to higher incomes than currently to help these people, but I seriously doubt that you personally would support that (I'm f**king positive the politicians you support don't support that!).

Oh....I'm deadly serious.  I just happened to be out in Chicago for work when this story broke

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-pat-quinn-idot-patronage-madigan-edit-0430-20170428-story,amp.html

" Never was told, never got a resume to find something or interview." — Klemz after being instructed to onboard an "emergency" hire who was the stepdaughter of Lightford, D-Maywood. The candidate, whose most recent job was as a FedEx package handler, displaced a lawyer already chosen for the job."



I have extended family members who work for the State of MA and they can pretty much get anyone who's politically connected a job doing fvck all

Sorry, I'm laughing at your suggestion that this is a Democratic thing. You don't think GOP politicians all over the country engage in the same patronage/spoils shit?

If we're going with anecdotes, I've personally come across a few political appointees in my time myself, including some put in "jobs" by a very high profile, grandstanding, tough talking, "small government" GOP governor. I know another lad who got a job (although he was good at it) through a certain GOP mayor out of ethnic and political favouritism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2017, 06:40:14 PM
 Believe whatever you want.....

I never said that corruption didn't occur in Red States...I'm sure it does, just nowhere near the same extent as it occurs in the Democratic states.

You accused me of being hysterical for suggesting Democrats were "creating" jobs for  the politically connected. I provided evidence in the Tribune article, but now that is an "anecdote"

How many anecdotes do you need before you admit there's a problem?

Tell you what, you can keep paying your taxes like a good sheep to ensure your state senators third cousin twice removed can get a state job with a pension and benefits doing fvck all.  I'll do whatever I need to do to now pay as little tax as possible and still stay on the right side of the law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2017, 07:20:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 06:40:14 PM
Believe whatever you want.....

I never said that corruption didn't occur in Red States...I'm sure it does, just nowhere near the same extent as it occurs in the Democratic states.

Based on?

Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 06:40:14 PM
You accused me of being hysterical for suggesting Democrats were "creating" jobs for  the politically connected. I provided evidence in the Tribune article, but now that is an "anecdote"

How many anecdotes do you need before you admit there's a problem?

You're making claims about Democrats in the blue states you've lived in creating huge bureaucracies filled with idle relatives of politicians. You provided an article about a governor in Illinois. Fair enough, Chicago is corrupt as f**k. You made some personal assertions about stuff you've personally seen. Doesn't mean that the entire Democratic Party or liberals in general are. Just as the anecdotes I've related about two very high profile GOP figures in the NY tri-state area doesn't mean the entire GOP or conservatives are corrupt either.

Although one wonders why the GOP is so opposed to campaign finance laws and restricting dark money in politics if they are so much cleaner than the Democrats?

Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2017, 06:40:14 PM
Tell you what, you can keep paying your taxes like a good sheep to ensure your state senators third cousin twice removed can get a state job with a pension and benefits doing fvck all.  I'll do whatever I need to do to now pay as little tax as possible and still stay on the right side of the law.

Ok. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 15, 2017, 08:54:08 PM
Mary Jordan‏

@marycjordan 
The painful truth about teeth. 1 in 5 Americans over 65 don't have a single real tooth left
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 15, 2017, 09:56:50 PM
Norman Ornstein‏ @NormOrnstein 
We need an independent prosecutor with no personal relationship with Trump. I suggest Melania
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 16, 2017, 12:41:12 AM
Comrade Don spilling highly classified info to the Russians in the Oval Office last week - surely not??????????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 16, 2017, 07:16:20 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 16, 2017, 12:41:12 AM
Comrade Don spilling highly classified info to the Russians in the Oval Office last week - surely not??????????

In the Don's own words carelesssness in the handling of classified information means you're not fit for office!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 16, 2017, 06:05:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 16, 2017, 12:41:12 AM
Comrade Don spilling highly classified info to the Russians in the Oval Office last week - surely not??????????
Yesterday he denied it. Today he defended it.

You cannot make this stuff up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 16, 2017, 07:23:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 16, 2017, 06:05:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 16, 2017, 12:41:12 AM
Comrade Don spilling highly classified info to the Russians in the Oval Office last week - surely not??????????
Yesterday he denied it. Today he defended it.

You cannot make this stuff up.
You can if you are DJT
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 16, 2017, 07:25:04 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/15/trump-russia-trust-problem-238422
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 16, 2017, 10:27:23 PM
QuoteWASHINGTON — President Trump asked the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, to shut down the federal investigation into Mr. Trump's former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, in an Oval Office meeting in February, according to a memo that Mr. Comey wrote shortly after the meeting.

"I hope you can let this go," the president told Mr. Comey, according to the memo.

The existence of Mr. Trump's request is the clearest evidence that the president has tried to directly influence the Justice Department and F.B.I. investigation into links between Mr. Trump's associates and Russia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/politics/james-comey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/politics/james-comey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html)


Nothing to see here folks ................ nothing at all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 16, 2017, 10:44:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 16, 2017, 10:27:23 PM
QuoteWASHINGTON — President Trump asked the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, to shut down the federal investigation into Mr. Trump's former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, in an Oval Office meeting in February, according to a memo that Mr. Comey wrote shortly after the meeting.

"I hope you can let this go," the president told Mr. Comey, according to the memo.

The existence of Mr. Trump's request is the clearest evidence that the president has tried to directly influence the Justice Department and F.B.I. investigation into links between Mr. Trump's associates and Russia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/politics/james-comey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/politics/james-comey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html)


Nothing to see here folks ................ nothing at all
Fake news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on May 16, 2017, 11:03:43 PM
Is it not better if Trump stays? Pence is a scarier alternative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 17, 2017, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Hardy on May 14, 2017, 08:49:09 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2017, 06:13:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

J70, why do you dignify this troll with a response. He spouts nonsense ... just read the last paragraph and it makes no sense.. It's Charlie Brown Wha,Wha, Wha, Wha.....
He is always demanding answers and never answers a question. You are a kind man to devote time to trying to talk sense to a "Birther" who is so invested in belittling democracy, decency and facts.

+1. I've been surprised that J70 keeps engaging with that character. In my opinion, to respond to the moronic but vicious nonsense he spouts seems to lend it some kind of legitimacy. When you use the ignore button the temptation to respond is non-existent. There's nothing to respond to. If everyone had him and his ilk on ignore, their narrow-minded ranting would be just shouting at the mirror.

Then again, who am I to talk? I've been known to respond to Tony Fearon.

Hardly - Please please please put me on ignore - then I can call you a co******er like Rossfanny as many times as I like without you knowing.

The typical hysterical democrat position that we've come to expect, call someone a racist, fascist, sexist etc if you don't like someones point of view.
I'm debating with J70 about the term interference, not you. I disagree with him but I haven't resorted to your tactics because I don't believe he's right.

GAAboard imitating american politics. Sad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on May 17, 2017, 01:19:20 AM
Fox news is comedy gold tonight.  Tucker just doesn't seem himself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 17, 2017, 01:32:20 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 17, 2017, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Hardy on May 14, 2017, 08:49:09 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2017, 06:13:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2017, 01:01:07 AM
I'm not furnishing you with anything. If you want to argue that endorsements across international lines started in 2017 with Obama, knock yourself out.

As for the why, I suspect that it was obviously because Obama, like many of us, didn't like the the views of LePen and the National Front, which she led until a couple of weeks ago. Do you think everyone who endorsed Donald Trump knew him well?? Do you think Ted Cruz, who endorsed him, even likes Trump?

I don't know why you're whining about free speech. More red herrings?

You can't provide examples, especially of this scale. Just be honest and say you can't.

The why bit is important, especially if you read macron's background. Couldn't take a chance that he could fail like Hillary did which is why obama was rolled out.

How is democrat protestors stopping free speech a red herring? Should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the idea.
Democrats are easy to program and bleat out the same mantra. I'm not sure they're able to think for themselves any more.
Should rename themselves The Kardashian party.

J70, why do you dignify this troll with a response. He spouts nonsense ... just read the last paragraph and it makes no sense.. It's Charlie Brown Wha,Wha, Wha, Wha.....
He is always demanding answers and never answers a question. You are a kind man to devote time to trying to talk sense to a "Birther" who is so invested in belittling democracy, decency and facts.

+1. I've been surprised that J70 keeps engaging with that character. In my opinion, to respond to the moronic but vicious nonsense he spouts seems to lend it some kind of legitimacy. When you use the ignore button the temptation to respond is non-existent. There's nothing to respond to. If everyone had him and his ilk on ignore, their narrow-minded ranting would be just shouting at the mirror.

Then again, who am I to talk? I've been known to respond to Tony Fearon.

Hardly - Please please please put me on ignore - then I can call you a co******er like Rossfanny as many times as I like without you knowing.

The typical hysterical democrat position that we've come to expect, call someone a racist, fascist, sexist etc if you don't like someones point of view.
I'm debating with J70 about the term interference, not you. I disagree with him but I haven't resorted to your tactics because I don't believe he's right.

GAAboard imitating american politics. Sad.
J70 and all the other non-Trump supporting posters quite obviously aren't racist, fascist or sexist.

You quite obviously are, as anybody with any sort of rational mind can see.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 17, 2017, 01:41:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 17, 2017, 12:07:42 AM
The typical hysterical democrat position that we've come to expect, call someone a racist, fascist, sexist etc if you don't like someones point of view.

The Democratic position is to call someone a racist, fascist, or sexist if they're a racist, fascist, sexist. The conservative response is to cry like a wounded puppy about how the big boys are picking on you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2017, 06:29:31 AM
Trump reminds me of Steve  Staunton during his time as Ireland Gaffer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7SvqaYx9m0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2017, 06:36:28 AM
http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/trump-obstruction-of-justice-comey-memo-2017-5/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2017, 07:59:39 AM
Free Advice to Trump Aides: Quit While You Can
By MICHELLE GOLDBERGMAY 16, 2017
On Monday night, Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, President Trump's widely admired national security adviser, held a hastily convened news conference to try to knock down reports that Mr. Trump had shared highly classified information with Russia — only to have Mr. Trump appear to confirm the reports in two Tuesday morning tweets.
"General McMaster spent decades defending this nation, earning his integrity and honor. Trump squandered it in less than 12 hours," responded the Republican strategist John Weaver in a tweet. The journalist and former speechwriter for George W. Bush, David Frum, asked: "How does McMaster not resign today? That thing he said 'did not happen' the president has just defended doing."
General McMaster may find a way of avoiding that conclusion for now, but — if the yelling from the inmates of the West Wing is anything to go by — the moral and intellectual contortions now required of those who serve in the White House are extracting a heavy cost. It is tempting to believe, for instance, that the president's press spokesman Sean Spicer will forever be remembered for the evening Mr. Trump fired the F.B.I. director, James Comey, when Mr. Spicer cowered among the bushes on the White House grounds to avoid journalists. But in all likelihood, Mr. Spicer will soon find himself at the center of yet another humiliating tableau, one that will supplant that last one in the public consciousness.
After all, before people started decorating their shrubbery with Sean Spicer lawn ornaments, he was best known for the petulant, hectoring and surreally dishonest press briefings that Melissa McCarthy immortalized on "Saturday Night Live." No one knows the next national joke that will have Mr. Spicer as a punch line, but one thing is clear. As long as he works for this president, he is unlikely to recover his dignity.
Continue reading the main story


ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story


The same is true of most people in Mr. Trump's orbit. To serve this president is to be diminished.
It took Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein a mere two weeks in the administration to trash his sterling reputation through his involvement in Mr. Comey's firing. Trump associates have tried to pin the blame for the president's manifold displays of incompetence on the White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus — whose internal nickname, according to The Week, is Rancid — but the truth is that Mr. Trump is ruining Mr. Priebus's reputation, not vice versa. Lesser-known figures will also probably find that their time in the administration has hindered, rather than helped, their career prospects.
"You don't find people who mentioned they worked at the Nixon White House unless they were high enough and conspicuous and had to admit it," John Dean, former White House counsel to Richard Nixon, told me.
Certainly, some who are serving should stay put for the good of the nation. We need sane and competent people like Secretary of Defense James Mattis to remain in government and dissuade the president from cavalierly starting a nuclear war. It's understandable why career officials in the Justice Department or the State Department would want to hunker down and try to preserve their institutions from Mr. Trump's wrecking ball. But there are a great many other people, both famous names and faceless officials, whose jobs have nothing to do with safeguarding the republic.
Mr. Trump's entire communications staff could resign tomorrow without imperiling the citizenry. And for their own good, as well as the good of the nation, they should.
Out in America, Mr. Trump still has plenty of genuine admirers, people who view him as a brilliant, iconoclastic businessman. But there is scant evidence of such respect among the people who actually work with him in Washington. The New York Times recently reported that there are "deep resentments among his scarred staff," and The Washington Post writes of aides "bewildered and alarmed by how Trump arrives at his decisions." These men and women are suffering personally while propping up a presidency they appear to hold in contempt. They are allowing themselves to be permanently tarnished through their association with a man whose name is destined to become the root of a political epithet signifying disgrace, like McCarthyite or Nixonian.
They aren't just selling out their country. They're selling out themselves.
Great prizes await the first few people to break ranks and tell the country what they know about this corrupt and degenerate presidency. The majority of Americans who fear and disdain Mr. Trump will hail them as patriots. There are book and movie deals to be had and cable contracts to sign.
Newsletter Sign Up
Continue reading the main story
Opinion Today
Every weekday, get thought-provoking commentary from Op-Ed columnists, The Times editorial board and contributing writers from around the world.


Sign Up

Receive occasional updates and special offers for The New York Times's products and services.


See Sample Privacy Policy

The political tell-all can be a lucrative career move. Scott McClellan, a press secretary for George W. Bush, had a No. 1 New York Times best seller with his scathing memoir of the Bush White House, "What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington's Culture of Deceit." George Stephanopoulos, a former senior aide to Bill Clinton, wrote a best-selling account of his White House disillusionment, "All Too Human: A Political Education," which served as part of his transformation from politico to highly paid TV journalist. Mr. Dean, who basically invented the form of White House confessional with his 1976 book "Blind Ambition: The White House Years," continues to enjoy a successful career as an author and pundit.
Thanks to copious leaks, we already know a lot more about the internal workings of the Trump White House than we do about past administrations, but there is still immense interest in what is really going on and how the major players feel about it. It would be worth the price of a hardcover just to learn how Kellyanne Conway — who, according to the "Morning Joe" hosts Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski, said she needed to shower after defending Mr. Trump during the campaign — sleeps at night.
"There are going to be a lot more best-selling authors coming out of the Trump administration than out of the Obama administration," said Eric Nelson, the editorial director of Broadside Books, the conservative imprint at HarperCollins. "Trump makes everybody he touches a national story."
Those who stick around, however, will discover that in politics, being part of a national story can be ruinous. Members of Mr. Clinton's administration had to shoulder huge legal bills, some running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, after being forced to testify before congressional committees and grand juries. As Mr. Stephanopoulos noted in 1998, "A single trip to the grand jury can cost you $10,000."
Congressional and legal investigations into Mr. Trump's presidency — including his ties to Russia, his firing of Mr. Comey and the overlap of his business interests and his governing responsibilities — are likely to be even more extensive than those Mr. Clinton faced, particularly if Democrats take back either house of Congress next year.
"Anybody who is there now, if they're anywhere close to the problems, they're probably going to need an attorney, and it's going to get expensive," Mr. Dean warned. "I think a lot of people are going to get hurt."
Allies of the Clintons set up legal defense funds to pay off some of their aides' bills. People working for this administration should ask themselves whether they are confident that anyone close to Mr. Trump, a man notorious for stiffing his contractors, would do the same.
Ordinarily, whistle-blowers have to decide between following the moral course of action and looking out for their own material security. For officials contemplating jumping off the sinking ship of the Trump presidency, however, ethical and venal incentives are in unusual alignment. The time is ripe to get out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 17, 2017, 04:00:09 PM
Jesus did anyone see the video footage of Erdogans goons having a go at protesters outside the Turkish Embassy? Kicking women in the head while they lied on the ground and everything it's harrowing you can only imagine what people are going through in Turkey itself!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcuCZemRo84

(https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/rtx363m8-e1494998224182.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=800)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on May 17, 2017, 04:57:58 PM
you know that if Trump goes, next  is Pence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 17, 2017, 06:22:54 PM
Pence might be another evil sumbitch but at least he know what he's doing. The current president is a complete loose cannon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on May 17, 2017, 08:00:15 PM
Trump just boasted to US Coast Guard cadets about how much he's 'saved them' on the F-35 and Ford class carriers. The Coast Guard operates neither.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 17, 2017, 11:42:02 PM
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/special-counsel-will-take-over-fbi-russia-campaign-interference-investigation-n761271

Former FBI Director appointed as Special Counsel


(https://s11.postimg.org/w5upss8g3/Capture.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 18, 2017, 08:02:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 17, 2017, 01:41:39 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 17, 2017, 12:07:42 AM
The typical hysterical democrat position that we've come to expect, call someone a racist, fascist, sexist etc if you don't like someones point of view.

The Democratic position is to call someone a racist, fascist, or sexist if they're a racist, fascist, sexist. The conservative response is to cry like a wounded puppy about how the big boys are picking on you.
Hey Eamon - People in glass houses and all that.

racist - Black Lives Matter
fascist - the occupy Protestors and their denying of free speech
sexist  - Bill Clinton

Democrats have ticked the boxes. Yet to see them correct themselves in their disgusting behaviour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 19, 2017, 08:47:39 AM
QuoteDemocrats have ticked the boxes. Yet to see them correct themselves in their disgusting behaviour.


Exactly - Remember when we had Obama's scandals to deal with  ;)?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DADPxtDUwAArEwy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 19, 2017, 08:53:51 AM
Hard to believe the exchange below

"This is like something straight out of George Orwell."
by Bess Levin,
May 18, 2017 5:30 pm

Few of Donald Trump's genuinely populist economic proposals from the campaign trail seem to have survived the transition to the White House. In retrospect, it seems foolish to have put any stock whatsoever in his sundry musings about "the government" paying for everyone's health care, or hedge funds "getting away with murder," or how the wealthy should "pay more" in taxes, or how he'd like to see a minimum wage "increase of some magnitude." Each of those proposals was quickly replaced by its opposite, almost as if Trump doesn't care about the words he says or actually believe in anything at all.

So it should come as no surprise that Donald Trump has vacillated on the possibility of bringing back Glass-Steagall, the Depression-era law that separated commercial and investment banks until 1999 and the repeal of which some people blame for the financial crisis. "I'm looking at that right now," Trump told Bloomberg earlier this month. "There's some people that want to go back to the old system, right? So we're going to look at that."

Historically, a sitting president mulling the possibility of breaking up the big banks would have sent shivers down the spines of Wall Street C.E.O.s, with a market reaction to match. Instead, investors barely blinked. Because, by their own admission, no one on Wall Street really takes Trump seriously anymore. At this point, they're fully aware of the fact that by a quirk of biology, the president's brain is not connected to his mouth and so the words just tumble out at will. "I don't take Trump seriously," a senior executive with "one of the country's six largest banks" told Reuters earlier this month. "I'm listening less and less." "Break up the banks? That ain't going to happen," Citigroup adviser Rick Hohlt told Bloomberg.

The pronouncements of other Trump minions appear similarly worthless. Lately, some administration officials have taken to using the term "21st-century Glass-Steagall"—a term they claim does not actually involve breaking up banks, which is kind of like when Ivanka Trump said she was "complicit," if complicit meant "wanting to be a force for good and to make a positive impact."

Senator Elizabeth Warren is a very smart woman who, like Wall Street, is presumably wise to the fact that one cannot take Trump and Co. literally or seriously. But bringing back Glass-Steagall is something she's advocated for years, having introduced just such a proposal in 2015. So when Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin showed up to testify before the Senate Banking Committee on Thursday, she decided to take the opportunity to force him to admit that when Donald Trump says he's "looking into" breaking up the banks, he's actually full of it. The result was an absolutely surreal exchange that must be read in full:

Elizabeth Warren: You said we need a 21st-century Glass-Steagall at your confirmation hearing. And now you've just said the opposite. In the past few months, you and the president have had a number of meetings with big-bank C.E.O.s and lobbyists—is that the reason for the reversal on Glass-Stegall?

Steven Mnuchin: Not at all; there actually wasn't a reversal.

Warren: There wasn't a reversal?

Mnuchin: Let me explain.

Warren: I'm ready.

Mnuchin: The Republican platform did have Glass-Stegall. . . . The president said we do support a 21st-century Glass-Steagall, that means there are aspects of it that we think may make sense. But we never said before we support a full separation of banks and investment banking.

Warren: Let me just stop you right there, Mr. Secretary—

Mnuchin: You're not letting me finish—

Warren: Yeah, I'm not, because I really need to understand what you've just said. There are aspects of Glass-Steagall that you support, but not breaking up the banks and separating commercial banking from investment banking? What do you think Glass-Stegall was if that's not right at the heart of it?

Mnuchin: Again, I'm well aware of what Glass-Steagall was, as you may know the original concern of Glass-Steagall was about conflicts not about credit risk, and if we had supported a full Glass-Stegall we would have said at the time we believed in Glass-Stegall, not a 21st-century Glass-Stegall. We were very clear in differentiating it.

Warren: I still haven't heard the answer to my question; what do you think Glass-Stegall was if not separating commercial banking from investment banking, from ordinary banking?

Mnuchin: Again, the fundamental part of Glass-Stegall was, as you just outlined, it was separation of investment banking from commercial banking because people were concerned about conflicts.

Warren: And how do you separate without breaking up the big banks that have integrated these two things?

Mnuchin: Again, the integration of commercial banking and investment banking has gone on for a long time, that's not what caused the financial crisis, and if we did go back to a full separation, you would have an enormous impact on liquidity and lending.

Warren: So let me get this straight. You're saying you're in favor of Glass-Steagall, which breaks apart the two arms of the banks, except you don't want to break apart the two parts of banking. This is like something straight out of George Orwell. You're saying simultaneously you're in favor of breaking up the banks— that's what Glass-Steagall is—

Mnuchin: I never said we were in favor of breaking up the banks. If we had been, it would have been very simple .

Warren: Let me try one more time—what does it mean to be in favor of 21st-century Glass-Steagall if it does not mean breaking apart these two functions in banking?

Mnuchin: I'd be more than happy to come see you and follow up—

Warren: Just tell me what it means. Tell me what 21st-century Glass-Steagall means if it doesn't mean breaking up those two parts. It's an easy question.

Mnuchin: It's actually a complicated question—

Warren: I'll bet.

Mnuchin: There are many aspects of it. The simple answer is we don't support breaking up commercial and investment banks. We think that would be a huge mistake, but, again, I'm more than happy to listen to your ideas on it, you obviously have strong views.

Warren: This is just bizarre. The idea that you can say we're in favor of Glass-Steagall but not in breaking up the banks.

Mnuchin: We never said we were in favor of Glass-Steagall, we said we were in favor of a 21st-century Glass-Steagall. We couldn't be clearer.

Warren: Thank you . . . this is crazy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 19, 2017, 11:54:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ48xaw-NzU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 19, 2017, 04:38:09 PM
Michelle Ye Hee Lee‏ 

Since Inauguration Day, President Trump has made 586 false or misleading claims. http://wapo.st/trumpclaimsdb
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 22, 2017, 04:18:58 AM
Silence.. Did somebody impeach Trump😇
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2017, 05:53:14 AM
https://www.axios.com/scoop-trump-budget-to-slash-entitlements-by-1-7-trillion-2416931777.html
http://www.redstate.com/jaycaruso/2017/05/21/republican-spreading-conspiracy-theory-slain-dnc-staffer-seth-rich/
http://kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-uninsured-poor-adults-in-states-that-do-not-expand-medicaid/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2017, 07:50:28 PM
Even if the odd liberal is nuts it doesn't mean all liberals are. Much of the stuff on Fox is bollocks.
Conservatives have very little in the way of honest media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:20:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

'Top' Democrat?? Not so sure about that.

She is nuts about Putin coming up with Campaign strategy for Trump and she clearly meant Crimea and not Korea as you've said.

From what I've read about her not too many are taking her seriously anymore. Having said that I had she said anything worse than Gingrich, Hannity, f**king Trump himself even?

I haven't seen anyone give her nonsense any credence yet the 3 above speak the gospel truth according to nutjob conservatives!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 10:26:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

For the sake of argument ?? :D
She shares a podium with Nancy Pelosi to come out with her nonsense. If she was some backbencher trying to make a name for themselves you might be able to excuse it but she's front and centre for the democrats.

The degree is that she's making accusations with, by her own admission, no facts. In that case its pure lies. Surely you can't defend that, especially if you think that the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 10:37:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:20:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

'Top' Democrat?? Not so sure about that.

She is nuts about Putin coming up with Campaign strategy for Trump and she clearly meant Crimea and not Korea as you've said.

From what I've read about her not too many are taking her seriously anymore. Having said that I had she said anything worse than Gingrich, Hannity, f**king Trump himself even?

I haven't seen anyone give her nonsense any credence yet the 3 above speak the gospel truth according to nutjob conservatives!!

As I said, she shares the podium with Pelosi and Schumer and gets more than her share of airtime on the channels to air her assumptions. Honestly it doesn't help the credibility of the Democrats allowing her to keep coming out with those ridiculous comments. I've seen no evidence of anyone pulling her aside yet.

If there is going to be an impeachment it needs to be based on facts. Saying the word over and over again isn't going to do it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 23, 2017, 01:39:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

The left are a bunch of hateful arrogant c***ts that lost to Trump, you are right, there is no comparison, the democrats are simply too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 23, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 01:39:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

The left are a bunch of hateful arrogant c***ts that lost to Trump, you are right, there is no comparison, the democrats are simply too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern.

Way to address my points stew!

And excuse while I laugh (or is it vomit) at your suggestion that the Dems are too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern in the light of what is going on right now in DC and elsewhere with Trump and the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 23, 2017, 02:12:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 10:26:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

For the sake of argument ?? :D
She shares a podium with Nancy Pelosi to come out with her nonsense. If she was some backbencher trying to make a name for themselves you might be able to excuse it but she's front and centre for the democrats.

The degree is that she's making accusations with, by her own admission, no facts. In that case its pure lies. Surely you can't defend that, especially if you think that the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard.

Haven't defended her at all!

Nor have you defended or contested the GOP's affiliation with all kinds of conspiracy theories and purveyors of them!  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 23, 2017, 07:13:52 AM
Matt Novak‏ @paleofuture  13 h
InfoWars, which says the murder of 20 kids and 6 adults in Connecticut was staged by actors, now has White House press credentials
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 23, 2017, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 01:39:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

The left are a bunch of hateful arrogant c***ts that lost to Trump, you are right, there is no comparison, the democrats are simply too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern.

Way to address my points stew!

And excuse while I laugh (or is it vomit) at your suggestion that the Dems are too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern in the light of what is going on right now in DC and elsewhere with Trump and the GOP.

Vomit away, if your party was even partially viable you would not be like every other liberal dolt destroyong everything Trump dors because you would be in power.

The fact you cannot admit Maxine is a nut job speaks volumes about you, the woman makes shit up and fobs it off as truth, and this sick bitch is a leader in the democrat party?

Safe soace time people, Trump is doing a good job thus far on his first foreign trip. that daid it is early days yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 23, 2017, 10:51:51 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 01:39:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

The left are a bunch of hateful arrogant c***ts that lost to Trump, you are right, there is no comparison, the democrats are simply too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern.

Way to address my points stew!

And excuse while I laugh (or is it vomit) at your suggestion that the Dems are too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern in the light of what is going on right now in DC and elsewhere with Trump and the GOP.

Vomit away, if your party was even partially viable you would not be like every other liberal dolt destroyong everything Trump dors because you would be in power.

The fact you cannot admit Maxine is a nut job speaks volumes about you, the woman makes shit up and fobs it off as truth, and this sick bitch is a leader in the democrat party?

Safe soace time people, Trump is doing a good job thus far on his first foreign trip. that daid it is early days yet.

Doing a good job?? What planet are you on? He's fumbled Healthcare and gone back on his word, hasn't built his wall, fudged the travel ban, spilled state secrets and obstructed justice and that's only in 3 months!!!

Why haven't you admitted that Hannity is a nutjob? Your comment on the Manchester thread says all we need to know about you. "Conservative" my ass, what you posted was vile hate speech!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 23, 2017, 11:29:59 AM
https://twitter.com/Khalidinho__/status/866773835340709890 (https://twitter.com/Khalidinho__/status/866773835340709890)

He's some gobshite
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 23, 2017, 11:34:17 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 01:39:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

The left are a bunch of hateful arrogant c***ts that lost to Trump, you are right, there is no comparison, the democrats are simply too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern.

Way to address my points stew!

And excuse while I laugh (or is it vomit) at your suggestion that the Dems are too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern in the light of what is going on right now in DC and elsewhere with Trump and the GOP.

Vomit away, if your party was even partially viable you would not be like every other liberal dolt destroyong everything Trump dors because you would be in power.

The fact you cannot admit Maxine is a nut job speaks volumes about you, the woman makes shit up and fobs it off as truth, and this sick bitch is a leader in the democrat party?

Safe soace time people, Trump is doing a good job thus far on his first foreign trip. that daid it is early days yet.

One of these days stew, you'll stun me and address what I actually say. Waters may well be a nut job. I haven't argued otherwise. I know f**k all about her honestly, and do not recall her having a profile anywhere close to Schumer or Pelosi or Warren (by your standard, that plank Gohmert must be a GOP "leader"). But what I do know is that when it comes to making shit up and indulging conspiracy theories, the Dems have a long, long way to go to even begin to compare to the GOP and the wider right.

As for Trump, he can't even go a couple of days away without more shit dropping at home on potential obstruction of justice!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 23, 2017, 12:11:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 23, 2017, 10:51:51 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 01:39:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

The left are a bunch of hateful arrogant c***ts that lost to Trump, you are right, there is no comparison, the democrats are simply too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern.

Way to address my points stew!

And excuse while I laugh (or is it vomit) at your suggestion that the Dems are too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern in the light of what is going on right now in DC and elsewhere with Trump and the GOP.

Vomit away, if your party was even partially viable you would not be like every other liberal dolt destroyong everything Trump dors because you would be in power.

The fact you cannot admit Maxine is a nut job speaks volumes about you, the woman makes shit up and fobs it off as truth, and this sick bitch is a leader in the democrat party?

Safe soace time people, Trump is doing a good job thus far on his first foreign trip. that daid it is early days yet.

Doing a good job?? What planet are you on? He's fumbled Healthcare and gone back on his word, hasn't built his wall, fudged the travel ban, spilled state secrets and obstructed justice and that's only in 3 months!!!

Why haven't you admitted that Hannity is a nutjob? Your comment on the Manchester thread says all we need to know about you. "Conservative" my ass, what you posted was vile hate speech!

Screen i never said he was doinf a goid job, i said he was doing a good job thus far on his first state visits abroad, i never mentioned healthcare snowflake and if these people who murdered children are not radical muslim scum what the f**k are they???

As for their prophet? Did i lie there?
I was a conservative when luving in the states, i am a labour supporter over here, the norths political parties are a waste of time and i am a Corbyn supporter, and i stand by every word i wrote, i hate these Muslim scumbags that kill innocent people, i hope they rot in hell and petals like you screen empower them through your fear and apathy, call them whar they are and grow a pair ffs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on May 23, 2017, 12:55:14 PM
Stew stop banging on your keyboard before you take heart attack
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 23, 2017, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 12:11:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 23, 2017, 10:51:51 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 01:39:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

The left are a bunch of hateful arrogant c***ts that lost to Trump, you are right, there is no comparison, the democrats are simply too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern.

Way to address my points stew!

And excuse while I laugh (or is it vomit) at your suggestion that the Dems are too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern in the light of what is going on right now in DC and elsewhere with Trump and the GOP.

Vomit away, if your party was even partially viable you would not be like every other liberal dolt destroyong everything Trump dors because you would be in power.

The fact you cannot admit Maxine is a nut job speaks volumes about you, the woman makes shit up and fobs it off as truth, and this sick bitch is a leader in the democrat party?

Safe soace time people, Trump is doing a good job thus far on his first foreign trip. that daid it is early days yet.

Doing a good job?? What planet are you on? He's fumbled Healthcare and gone back on his word, hasn't built his wall, fudged the travel ban, spilled state secrets and obstructed justice and that's only in 3 months!!!

Why haven't you admitted that Hannity is a nutjob? Your comment on the Manchester thread says all we need to know about you. "Conservative" my ass, what you posted was vile hate speech!

Screen i never said he was doinf a goid job, i said he was doing a good job thus far on his first state visits abroad, i never mentioned healthcare snowflake and if these people who murdered children are not radical muslim scum what the f**k are they???

As for their prophet? Did i lie there?
I was a conservative when luving in the states, i am a labour supporter over here, the norths political parties are a waste of time and i am a Corbyn supporter, and i stand by every word i wrote, i hate these Muslim scumbags that kill innocent people, i hope they rot in hell and petals like you screen empower them through your fear and apathy, call them whar they are and grow a pair ffs!

"Snowflake"?? ;D

Can you boys not come up with an original thought instead of looking up the GOP/alt-right list of insults?

Think you used "safe space" in an earlier post, right?

Don't forget "low energy" and "cuck". I think you use "libtard" quite frequently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on May 23, 2017, 01:02:19 PM
Maybe we could adopt Trump's term for these "Losers" rather than "Muslim scumbags".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 23, 2017, 01:46:57 PM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 12:11:52 PMScreen i never said he was doinf a goid job, i said he was doing a good job thus far on his first state visits abroad, i never mentioned healthcare snowflake and if these people who murdered children are not radical muslim scum what the f**k are they???

Selling the biggest sponsor of ISIS $110 billion worth of arms and getting $100m back for Ivanka's foundation is a "great job"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 23, 2017, 03:54:16 PM
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18664270_1550592645033784_7105914473692297531_n.png?oh=44139a93b345add1ee1127ac1624a308&oe=599FE8D2)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on May 23, 2017, 03:56:10 PM
He is a bollox of the first order
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 23, 2017, 04:05:51 PM
That's a bit harsh on Stew
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 23, 2017, 07:27:33 PM
Oh look  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Maybe they can remove Hannity as well

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/23/statement-on-coverage-seth-rich-murder-investigation.html

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAh_3ImWsAA4guF.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 23, 2017, 08:59:10 PM
If Hannity has a shred of integrity, he'll resign.

Obviously he doesn't and he won't!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on May 24, 2017, 08:24:44 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 23, 2017, 01:02:19 PM
Maybe we could adopt Trump's term for these "Losers" rather than "Muslim scumbags".

Did he do the L sign as well???

In all seriousness the President of the US referring to terrorists like he was an immature teenager. I hope that wasn't a speechwriter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 24, 2017, 08:44:32 AM
Most of the most toxic Trump players are Irish American.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on May 24, 2017, 10:19:23 AM
Interesting choice of clothing and headwear for the Trump ladies considering what they did in the Middle East

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAlLqF7XUAAW4as.jpg)

how happy does Il Papa look :o

 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on May 24, 2017, 12:13:46 PM
More like pope francis thinking how long do I have to entertain these guys?  And the simpsons are  starting in  aa few minutes and i forgot to Sky+ it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 24, 2017, 08:05:10 PM
Spot the difference:
(http://i.imgur.com/ci0rK4t.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/3iC2wJk.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ojtPQ5b.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/sxo7Bj0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 25, 2017, 03:18:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2017, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 12:11:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 23, 2017, 10:51:51 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2017, 01:39:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently?
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are correct, and that Maxine Waters is a bit of a whack job, no one has ever denied that there aren't crazy people or conspiracy theories on the liberal side.

Its the degree that is the key.

There is simply no comparison between the two sides, whether it is the birther movement, creationism, climate denialism, Sandy Hook, Jade Helm, FEMA concentration camps, incoming sharia la, "homosexual agenda", UN conspiracies and the rest and the degree to which the politicians that represent the right, whether they believe in a particular aspect of this shit or not, have to debase themselves so as not to offend their constituency.

And of course, we have the greatest conspiracy theorist subscriber of them all as president right now.

The left are a bunch of hateful arrogant c***ts that lost to Trump, you are right, there is no comparison, the democrats are simply too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern.

Way to address my points stew!

And excuse while I laugh (or is it vomit) at your suggestion that the Dems are too rotten, racist and corrupt to govern in the light of what is going on right now in DC and elsewhere with Trump and the GOP.

Vomit away, if your party was even partially viable you would not be like every other liberal dolt destroyong everything Trump dors because you would be in power.

The fact you cannot admit Maxine is a nut job speaks volumes about you, the woman makes shit up and fobs it off as truth, and this sick bitch is a leader in the democrat party?

Safe soace time people, Trump is doing a good job thus far on his first foreign trip. that daid it is early days yet.

Doing a good job?? What planet are you on? He's fumbled Healthcare and gone back on his word, hasn't built his wall, fudged the travel ban, spilled state secrets and obstructed justice and that's only in 3 months!!!

Why haven't you admitted that Hannity is a nutjob? Your comment on the Manchester thread says all we need to know about you. "Conservative" my ass, what you posted was vile hate speech!

Screen i never said he was doinf a goid job, i said he was doing a good job thus far on his first state visits abroad, i never mentioned healthcare snowflake and if these people who murdered children are not radical muslim scum what the f**k are they???

As for their prophet? Did i lie there?
I was a conservative when luving in the states, i am a labour supporter over here, the norths political parties are a waste of time and i am a Corbyn supporter, and i stand by every word i wrote, i hate these Muslim scumbags that kill innocent people, i hope they rot in hell and petals like you screen empower them through your fear and apathy, call them whar they are and grow a pair ffs!

"Snowflake"?? ;D

Can you boys not come up with an original thought instead of looking up the GOP/alt-right list of insults?

Think you used "safe space" in an earlier post, right?

Don't forget "low energy" and "cuck". I think you use "libtard" quite frequently.

Libtard, very rarely as I detest the word retarded

Never used the last two and never  will.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 04:16:18 AM
GOP candidate in Montana assaulting a reporter for asking a question about healthcare.

Sounds like a great guy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 25, 2017, 08:22:05 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 04:16:18 AM
GOP candidate in Montana assaulting a reporter for asking a question about healthcare.
Sounds like a great guy.

Jail is the only place for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on May 25, 2017, 01:17:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 04:16:18 AM
GOP candidate in Montana assaulting a reporter for asking a question about healthcare.

Sounds like a great guy.

Gianforte is a believer in Young Earth creationism, the belief that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. He donated $1.5 million to the Glendive Dinosaur and Fossil Museum in Glendive, Montana, a creationist museum which teaches visitors that evolution is false, the Earth is about 6,000-6,400 years old, that dinosaurs were on the Ark and that they likely died out 4,300 years ago during the flood described in the Book of Genesis.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 25, 2017, 02:33:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 04:16:18 AM
GOP candidate in Montana assaulting a reporter for asking a question about healthcare.

Sounds like a great guy.

Unfortunately, a bit of physical abuse towards some weeny, liberal, biased reporter will only help a GOP candidate these days. Sure the whole thing was probably a set-up, they'll say.

And the election is today. A bit late to have any kind of impact.

Only hope is that this low-life lost the gubernatorial election last year while Trump took the state by 20%!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 25, 2017, 02:34:20 PM
Ben Carson called poverty a "state of mind" in an interview.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on May 25, 2017, 03:00:46 PM
Anyone ever take a look at Tucker Carlson on Fox? Great craic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx7JRdpik2s

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 03:30:25 PM
He's a whackjob
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 25, 2017, 03:56:54 PM
Fox News looks to be suffering at last:

http://fortune.com/2017/05/23/fox-news-ratings-down/ (http://fortune.com/2017/05/23/fox-news-ratings-down/)

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/05/with_fox_newss_ratings_in_free_fall_the_future_looks_bleak.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/05/with_fox_newss_ratings_in_free_fall_the_future_looks_bleak.html)

http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-fox-ratings-hannity-20170524-story.html
(http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-fox-ratings-hannity-20170524-story.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on May 25, 2017, 04:44:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 03:30:25 PM
He's a whackjob
Everything I've heard from him makes sense. What makes him a whakjob?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 25, 2017, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 03:30:25 PM
He's a whackjob

I have heard him speak on several occasions.....he's very clever, funny and articulate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 25, 2017, 06:07:10 PM
Compare with CNN anchor Don Lemon who tries to blame President Trump for the assault on the journalist and won't listen to any other opinion on the matter. That's impartial reporting for you!

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/you-are-sadly-mistaken-don-lemon-rips-cnn-guest-who-wont-blame-trump-for-alleged-assault-on-reporter/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 25, 2017, 06:13:21 PM
CNN at it's most hysterical. She loses the plot completely. Stellar reporters of CNN don't lie! Anonymous sources are completely trustworthy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67zEy_hgRPw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on May 25, 2017, 09:39:25 PM
Trump some boy pushing the Montenegro leader out of his way to be at the front.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 25, 2017, 10:55:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 25, 2017, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 03:30:25 PM
He's a whackjob

I have heard him speak on several occasions.....he's very clever, funny and articulate

He has Hopkins on regularly which tells you all you need to know... my favourite Tucker segment was when he had Stewart in Crossfire and got his ass handed to him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 11:41:55 PM
Add the son-in-law to those under FBI investigation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/jared-kushner-now-a-focus-in-russia-investigation/2017/05/25/f078db74-40c7-11e7-8c25-44d09ff5a4a8_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.90f8603f7d30
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on May 26, 2017, 06:47:53 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 25, 2017, 06:07:10 PM
Compare with CNN anchor Don Lemon who tries to blame President Trump for the assault on the journalist and won't listen to any other opinion on the matter. That's impartial reporting for you!

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/you-are-sadly-mistaken-don-lemon-rips-cnn-guest-who-wont-blame-trump-for-alleged-assault-on-reporter/

Lemon by name, Lemon by nature, the man is incompetent and an embarrassment to his profession, watch the clip with him getting owned by the Milwaukee Sheriff, great stuff altogether.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on May 26, 2017, 09:25:06 AM
Trump is two ends of a bollox. That video of him is cat, but worse than pushing out to the front is the way he sticks his chin up in the air and acts like a pompous dick afterwards. He has a face you would never, ever get tired of punching.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on May 26, 2017, 11:42:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 25, 2017, 10:55:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 25, 2017, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 03:30:25 PM
He's a whackjob

I have heard him speak on several occasions.....he's very clever, funny and articulate

He has Hopkins on regularly which tells you all you need to know... my favourite Tucker segment was when he had Stewart in Crossfire and got his ass handed to him!
I suppose he has an agenda but that doesn't mean that he's not frequently right, and it's often very funny.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 27, 2017, 08:48:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2017, 11:41:55 PM
Add the son-in-law to those under FBI investigation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/jared-kushner-now-a-focus-in-russia-investigation/2017/05/25/f078db74-40c7-11e7-8c25-44d09ff5a4a8_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.90f8603f7d30
It gets closer and closer to the centre
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 27, 2017, 10:37:16 PM
Reports now that Sean Hannity has been fired from Fox News - Murdoch is cleaning up the station so that it does not affect his purchase of BSkyB in UK.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on May 28, 2017, 08:18:06 PM
Some fascinating stuff from Tony Schwartz, the ghost writer of The Art Of The Deal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvczI3bfPsM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvczI3bfPsM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxF_CDDJ0YI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxF_CDDJ0YI)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 09:04:35 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 28, 2017, 08:18:06 PM
Some fascinating stuff from Tony Schwartz, the ghost writer of The Art Of The Deal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvczI3bfPsM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvczI3bfPsM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxF_CDDJ0YI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxF_CDDJ0YI)
Thanks for the links,  Hardy
What a car crash
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 29, 2017, 12:29:13 PM
So Trump's World Tour was a roaring success . . .

QuoteAngela Merkel says Germany can no longer rely on Donald Trump's America: 'We Europeans must take our destiny into our own hands'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-donald-trump-germany-us-no-longer-rely-european-union-climate-change-g7-a7760486.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 29, 2017, 03:32:52 PM
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/4nc2so/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-timothy-snyder---a-guide-to-maintaining-democracy-in--on-tyranny-
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 29, 2017, 05:23:29 PM
Macron showing that rare quality from a politician these days with some actual leadership in calling Russia on their bullshit . . . I haven't seen the video but I'm sure Putin's reaction will be a sight!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 29, 2017, 05:36:31 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/29/we-need-a-new-defence-strategy-donald-trump-has-hung-europe-out-to-dry
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 29, 2017, 09:08:17 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/06/22/trump-presidency-in-peril/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:21:31 PM
Here's one for Foxy

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/sean-hannity/528144/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 30, 2017, 09:51:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:21:31 PM
Here's one for Foxy

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/sean-hannity/528144/

I wouldn't click on any link from that website as it would infect my computer with a multitude of democrat viruses.

and lots of lies.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 30, 2017, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 30, 2017, 09:51:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:21:31 PM
Here's one for Foxy

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/sean-hannity/528144/

I wouldn't click on any link from that website as it would infect my computer with a multitude of democrat viruses.

and lots of lies.

Go on Foxy. Take a risk and break out of your bubble and read the article. You might find that releasing yourself from the toxic amniotic fluid that the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh feed you to be liberating.😇
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 30, 2017, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 30, 2017, 09:51:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:21:31 PM
Here's one for Foxy

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/sean-hannity/528144/

I wouldn't click on any link from that website as it would infect my computer with a multitude of democrat viruses.

and lots of lies.

Go on Foxy. Take a risk and break out of your bubble and read the article. You might find that releasing yourself from the toxic amniotic fluid that the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh feed you to be liberating.😇

If you think that watching the likes of Lemon, Madcow and Blitzer is going to inform you of the truth you are badly mistaken.

Can you not see the frenzy they are talking up? Honestly, CNN/MSNBC and the likes are seriously deranged in their commentary and have stoked up some sort of zombie army willing to take them at their word, repeating the slogans and mantras they've heard on the telly.

That is scary.

Have you seen the state of these pitiful college kids and their protests at graduations? Yeah, strike a blow. Boo Betsy devos why don't you. Well done.

All this stupidity and PC crap will come back to haunt the USA in the years to come. You're bienvenidos.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on May 31, 2017, 12:49:02 AM
Quote
All this stupidity and PC crap will come back to haunt the USA in the years to come. You're bienvenidos.

You're half right...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 31, 2017, 03:06:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 30, 2017, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 30, 2017, 09:51:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:21:31 PM
Here's one for Foxy

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/sean-hannity/528144/

I wouldn't click on any link from that website as it would infect my computer with a multitude of democrat viruses.

and lots of lies.

Go on Foxy. Take a risk and break out of your bubble and read the article. You might find that releasing yourself from the toxic amniotic fluid that the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh feed you to be liberating.😇

If you think that watching the likes of Lemon, Madcow and Blitzer is going to inform you of the truth you are badly mistaken.

Can you not see the frenzy they are talking up? Honestly, CNN/MSNBC and the likes are seriously deranged in their commentary and have stoked up some sort of zombie army willing to take them at their word, repeating the slogans and mantras they've heard on the telly.

That is scary.

Have you seen the state of these pitiful college kids and their protests at graduations? Yeah, strike a blow. Boo Betsy devos why don't you. Well done.

All this stupidity and PC crap will come back to haunt the USA in the years to come. You're bienvenidos.

I just asked you to read the article and you, as usual spew back a toxic brew of nonsense. Get out of your bubble and try to understand what the other side is trying to say. Just read the article and tell me what you disagree with and why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 31, 2017, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 30, 2017, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 30, 2017, 09:51:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:21:31 PM
Here's one for Foxy

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/sean-hannity/528144/

I wouldn't click on any link from that website as it would infect my computer with a multitude of democrat viruses.

and lots of lies.

Go on Foxy. Take a risk and break out of your bubble and read the article. You might find that releasing yourself from the toxic amniotic fluid that the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh feed you to be liberating.😇

If you think that watching the likes of Lemon, Madcow and Blitzer is going to inform you of the truth you are badly mistaken.

Can you not see the frenzy they are talking up? Honestly, CNN/MSNBC and the likes are seriously deranged in their commentary and have stoked up some sort of zombie army willing to take them at their word, repeating the slogans and mantras they've heard on the telly.

That is scary.

Have you seen the state of these pitiful college kids and their protests at graduations? Yeah, strike a blow. Boo Betsy devos why don't you. Well done.

All this stupidity and PC crap will come back to haunt the USA in the years to come. You're bienvenidos.

As opposed to the Tea Party movement and Hannity/O'Reilly/Carlson/Judge Jeanine.

The bile they've been spewing through the Obama years has now come to roost and has been haunting the USA for 120 odd days and has another 1300 or so to go!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on May 31, 2017, 08:56:10 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 30, 2017, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 30, 2017, 09:51:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:21:31 PM
Here's one for Foxy

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/sean-hannity/528144/

I wouldn't click on any link from that website as it would infect my computer with a multitude of democrat viruses.

and lots of lies.

Go on Foxy. Take a risk and break out of your bubble and read the article. You might find that releasing yourself from the toxic amniotic fluid that the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh feed you to be liberating.😇

If you think that watching the likes of Lemon, Madcow and Blitzer is going to inform you of the truth you are badly mistaken.

Can you not see the frenzy they are talking up? Honestly, CNN/MSNBC and the likes are seriously deranged in their commentary and have stoked up some sort of zombie army willing to take them at their word, repeating the slogans and mantras they've heard on the telly.

That is scary.

Have you seen the state of these pitiful college kids and their protests at graduations? Yeah, strike a blow. Boo Betsy devos why don't you. Well done.

All this stupidity and PC crap will come back to haunt the USA in the years to come. You're bienvenidos.

Wow, those scary toxic college zombies, and their exercise of free speech and the right to protest. Boo, PC gone mad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99s19HBs-6A

You're welcome
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 09:42:16 AM
The real Trump agenda is beginning to emerge. DeVos wants to cut the Dept of Education budget by 50%, something the GOP fruitcakes have been wanting for years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on May 31, 2017, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 09:42:16 AM
The real Trump agenda is beginning to emerge. DeVos wants to cut the Dept of Education budget by 50%, something the GOP fruitcakes have been wanting for years.

Clever move as now any American who want an education will have to pay for it at a DeVos private school.

The reintroduction of the "hedge" schools.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2017, 01:47:51 PM
Pulled out of Paris climate deal now too.

Joining Syria and Nicaragua as the hold-outs.

Inspirational stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 31, 2017, 01:54:34 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 31, 2017, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 09:42:16 AM
The real Trump agenda is beginning to emerge. DeVos wants to cut the Dept of Education budget by 50%, something the GOP fruitcakes have been wanting for years.

Clever move as now any American who want an education will have to pay for it at a DeVos private school.

The reintroduction of the "hedge" schools.
We don't need no education. Trump has shown you can be as thick as pigshit and still get right to the top.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2017, 04:08:46 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 31, 2017, 01:54:34 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 31, 2017, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 09:42:16 AM
The real Trump agenda is beginning to emerge. DeVos wants to cut the Dept of Education budget by 50%, something the GOP fruitcakes have been wanting for years.

Clever move as now any American who want an education will have to pay for it at a DeVos private school.

The reintroduction of the "hedge" schools.
We don't need no education. Trump has shown you can be as thick as pigshit and still get right to the top.

Just need a "small loan" from the auld fella to get you started on your way!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 04:40:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8YjHtFATaI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on May 31, 2017, 04:46:50 PM
More bombing of innocents but this time a bit further from home and America talking about sending more troops to Afganistan.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/trump-considering-sending-troops-afghanistan/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40102903

Should this be in the WTF thread?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 06:21:23 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 27, 2017, 10:37:16 PM
Reports now that Sean Hannity has been fired from Fox News - Murdoch is cleaning up the station so that it does not affect his purchase of BSkyB in UK.

More fake news then?

Hannity still on the air.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 31, 2017, 06:27:40 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 31, 2017, 03:06:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 30, 2017, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 30, 2017, 09:51:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:21:31 PM
Here's one for Foxy

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/sean-hannity/528144/

I wouldn't click on any link from that website as it would infect my computer with a multitude of democrat viruses.

and lots of lies.

Go on Foxy. Take a risk and break out of your bubble and read the article. You might find that releasing yourself from the toxic amniotic fluid that the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh feed you to be liberating.😇

If you think that watching the likes of Lemon, Madcow and Blitzer is going to inform you of the truth you are badly mistaken.

Can you not see the frenzy they are talking up? Honestly, CNN/MSNBC and the likes are seriously deranged in their commentary and have stoked up some sort of zombie army willing to take them at their word, repeating the slogans and mantras they've heard on the telly.

That is scary.

Have you seen the state of these pitiful college kids and their protests at graduations? Yeah, strike a blow. Boo Betsy devos why don't you. Well done.

All this stupidity and PC crap will come back to haunt the USA in the years to come. You're bienvenidos.

I just asked you to read the article and you, as usual spew back a toxic brew of nonsense. Get out of your bubble and try to understand what the other side is trying to say. Just read the article and tell me what you disagree with and why?

Just answer the question, Foxy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 06:37:42 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 31, 2017, 08:56:10 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 30, 2017, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 30, 2017, 09:51:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:21:31 PM
Here's one for Foxy

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/sean-hannity/528144/

I wouldn't click on any link from that website as it would infect my computer with a multitude of democrat viruses.

and lots of lies.

Go on Foxy. Take a risk and break out of your bubble and read the article. You might find that releasing yourself from the toxic amniotic fluid that the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh feed you to be liberating.😇

If you think that watching the likes of Lemon, Madcow and Blitzer is going to inform you of the truth you are badly mistaken.

Can you not see the frenzy they are talking up? Honestly, CNN/MSNBC and the likes are seriously deranged in their commentary and have stoked up some sort of zombie army willing to take them at their word, repeating the slogans and mantras they've heard on the telly.

That is scary.

Have you seen the state of these pitiful college kids and their protests at graduations? Yeah, strike a blow. Boo Betsy devos why don't you. Well done.

All this stupidity and PC crap will come back to haunt the USA in the years to come. You're bienvenidos.

Wow, those scary toxic college zombies, and their exercise of free speech and the right to protest. Boo, PC gone mad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99s19HBs-6A

You're welcome

Look up evergreen state college and tell me what forcing students to leave campus for a day against their will is going to achieve?

Zombies I tell ya!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I06t5njtt4o

Don't even have the brains to come up with a decent chant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 07:03:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:20:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Hannity getting stuck into the tin hat Seth Rich nonsense now . . . but it's only the lame stream media that indulge in fake news!!  ::) ::)

Have you been watching any of head Democrat conspiracy theorist Maxine Waters recently??
Surely you have to know this woman is insane or please please please write something defend her. I'd love a good laugh.

Her theories include Putin orchestrated the campaign against Hillary for Trump, Putin created the "lock her up" and "crooked Hillary" chants and the best one Putin invaded Korea?? WTF!! This is a top Democrat we're talking about.

She's acknowledged on TV that she has NO evidence but it's just a matter of finding it.  Good grief.

Even the host is thinking "mental woman" (go to 5 minutes in)
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/rep-maxine-waters-i-believe-it-s-going-to-lead-right-to-impeachment-947035715691

'Top' Democrat?? Not so sure about that.

She is nuts about Putin coming up with Campaign strategy for Trump and she clearly meant Crimea and not Korea as you've said.

From what I've read about her not too many are taking her seriously anymore. Having said that I had she said anything worse than Gingrich, Hannity, f**king Trump himself even?

I haven't seen anyone give her nonsense any credence yet the 3 above speak the gospel truth according to nutjob conservatives!!

Just a nice little footnote on Maxine Waters and what she's all about- she joined in the celebration when this sc**bag got released.

http://www.independentsentinel.com/never-forget-maxine-waters-embraced-thug-hurled-concrete-reginald-denny/

Watch the video of an innocent man being tortured for no reason and think about it if it was your family member going about their work getting hauled out of that truck.

Then the sc**bag who killed him with a brick to his head had this to say about it.

Q: So how do you feel about Reginald Denny. Do you feel remorse about your participation in what happened with him?

A: I wouldn't believe remorse is the appropriate word. ... Do I feel what occurred to Mr. Denny was justified? No.

Q: Can you say more?

A: It's really not more to say and that's just my humble opinion on that topic. Because if I was to say more, than we would go into a different part of this conversation — talking about going back into my history. It's a lot of things that happened to my people by the hands of Mr. Denny's nationality. But can I blame Mr. Denny for what happened to my people? No. Will I look to them and ask them for remorse, no. How can we heal from this process? How can we heal from that situation?

Q: So he was like a casualty of war?

A: There were many people that were a casualty. Mr. Denny just stands out. It was many people hurt and died in that 1992 situation. But those people are not spoken about. Only things that's spoken about is Florence and Normandie. But people died, people were killed in the '92 riots. Why are their names not being mentioned? Why is nobody not speaking about them? Because don't nobody care about that. Because in the world that we live in, if it bleeds it sells.

Mr. Denny blood was spilled in South Central in a majority black populated community and he happened to be of European descent. So that's why people felt a certain way about that situation. But I feel that the whole entire rebellion in 1992 — there were no winners, there were no losers. It was a situation that took place that brought about a negative situation that I wish we could have went about it — all of us: black, white, Mexican, every nationality – could have went about it differently.



Yep - tell me that you think that was justified and that doesn't make you a little uneasy about the likes of maxine waters and her agenda. She's on all the networks spouting her bile.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 08:07:01 PM
Foxy, are you aged over 70?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 31, 2017, 08:09:34 PM
Posting a link from the Independent Sentinel ...................... FFS  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 08:51:06 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/05/mcmaster-cohn-trump/528609/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on May 31, 2017, 09:11:42 PM
Covfefe to you all.  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/05/23/more-dangerous-than-trump-jeff-sessions/

"On May 20, Sessions completed his first hundred days as attorney general. His record thus far shows a determined effort to dismantle the Justice Department's protections of civil rights and civil liberties. Reversing course from the Obama Justice Department on virtually every front, he is seeking to return us not just to the pre-Obama era but to the pre-civil-rights era. We should have seen it coming; many of his actions show a clear continuity with his earlier record as a senator and state attorney general."

Why would Foxy or any Fox viewer support this or the end of the post war order ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 31, 2017, 09:29:21 PM
Foxy, you never answer my questions. You just post another piece of faux outrage from the right wing talking points. Why don't you read the article and let us know where you disagree with it and why.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 31, 2017, 09:29:21 PM
Foxy, you never answer my questions. You just post another piece of faux outrage from the right wing talking points. Why don't you read the article and let us know where you disagree with it and why.

Faux outrage? Did you watch that video of the guy being killed? Maxine Waters celebrated him and is still in public office and backed by Democrats.

138 posts - you're a troll account ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 31, 2017, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 31, 2017, 09:29:21 PM
Foxy, you never answer my questions. You just post another piece of faux outrage from the right wing talking points. Why don't you read the article and let us know where you disagree with it and why.

Faux outrage? Did you watch that video of the guy being killed? Maxine Waters celebrated him and is still in public office and backed by Democrats.

138 posts - you're a troll account ;)

Always. You are true to form; No response to my question but the Ad hominem attack is at the ready.
Just read the article and respond.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 11:37:52 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 31, 2017, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 31, 2017, 09:29:21 PM
Foxy, you never answer my questions. You just post another piece of faux outrage from the right wing talking points. Why don't you read the article and let us know where you disagree with it and why.

Faux outrage? Did you watch that video of the guy being killed? Maxine Waters celebrated him and is still in public office and backed by Democrats.

138 posts - you're a troll account ;)

Always. You are true to form; No response to my question but the Ad hominem attack is at the ready.
Just read the article and respond.

Before I even contemplate reading it who did Hannity murder?

Is it one of those Benghazi type things?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 01, 2017, 12:00:38 AM
You're safe Hannity has murdered no one and I do not recollect anything about the GOP defunding diplomacy. Just an interesting take on why Hannity needs to be more careful with his facts given the audience of "One" that he has.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2017, 01:14:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 31, 2017, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 31, 2017, 09:29:21 PM
Foxy, you never answer my questions. You just post another piece of faux outrage from the right wing talking points. Why don't you read the article and let us know where you disagree with it and why.

Faux outrage? Did you watch that video of the guy being killed? Maxine Waters celebrated him and is still in public office and backed by Democrats.

138 posts - you're a troll account ;)

Denny survived and is still alive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on June 01, 2017, 10:44:46 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 31, 2017, 04:46:50 PM
More bombing of innocents but this time a bit further from home and America talking about sending more troops to Afganistan.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/trump-considering-sending-troops-afghanistan/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40102903

Should this be in the WTF thread?
Surely this should have its own thread, but not even a reply here. Best to keep it quiet or you could be accused of whataboutery etc. Sure they're miles away and they have brown faces.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/05/31/80-people-killed-in-kabul-blast-and-youve-stopped-reading-havent-you/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 02, 2017, 06:38:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/05/23/more-dangerous-than-trump-jeff-sessions/

"On May 20, Sessions completed his first hundred days as attorney general. His record thus far shows a determined effort to dismantle the Justice Department's protections of civil rights and civil liberties. Reversing course from the Obama Justice Department on virtually every front, he is seeking to return us not just to the pre-Obama era but to the pre-civil-rights era. We should have seen it coming; many of his actions show a clear continuity with his earlier record as a senator and state attorney general."

Why would Foxy or any Fox viewer support this or the end of the post war order ?

Obama did more to destroy the civil rights of the people than any other president!

If conservative are classed as 'Fox viewers' what are the rest of you snowflake apologists to be classed as????
/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 06:55:32 AM
There are zero conservatives in Washington.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on June 02, 2017, 10:22:13 AM
Front page of the Berliner Kurier today. The man and his administration are a serious threat to the world

(https://i.redditmedia.com/TIsJOk01XjqLq2_M3za7tMOBSINeQenuSVpuk1BnF4A.jpg?w=592&s=3e46381ee1cf420d0b45a8ef073b3b97)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 11:01:46 AM
Trump is straight out of Scooby Doo

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/01/trump-climate-announcement-attendees-239025

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBWynUnzf0Q
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 02, 2017, 02:55:59 PM
I don't like Trump and I'm all for protecting the world. I'm all for battling global warming and climate change. I think the US should have stayed and led the movement and I think what Trump did was a mistake.
But when conversing with friends who think it was a good call to leave I don't have any rebuttals. They say there is no evidence for climate change that it's all cyclical. We're on a 240 year cycle coming off the warming cycle and going in to the cooling cycle after 2019/2020 - which I think is horse shit...
But whats the come back - what evidence do you present to someone who thinks like that....

They're also talking about cost to american tax payers for something that has no evidence and leaning on that.

I've no interest in debating it all that much with them. but I'm curious to hear how you would respond. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2017, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 02, 2017, 02:55:59 PM
I don't like Trump and I'm all for protecting the world. I'm all for battling global warming and climate change. I think the US should have stayed and led the movement and I think what Trump did was a mistake.
But when conversing with friends who think it was a good call to leave I don't have any rebuttals. They say there is no evidence for climate change that it's all cyclical. We're on a 240 year cycle coming off the warming cycle and going in to the cooling cycle after 2019/2020 - which I think is horse shit...
But whats the come back - what evidence do you present to someone who thinks like that....

They're also talking about cost to american tax payers for something that has no evidence and leaning on that.

I've no interest in debating it all that much with them. but I'm curious to hear how you would respond.

Your friends are willfully ignorant, placing political bias ahead of science. Your best bet is to read up in the subject.

Where the hell did they drag up the 2019/20 figure from?

Does that level of "specificity" when it comes to a "scientific" prediction not ring alarm bells with them?

Are they scientifically literate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on June 02, 2017, 03:52:02 PM
QuoteThey're also talking about cost to american tax payers for something that has no evidence and leaning on that.

Well NASA have a site aimed at kids which might help them

https://climatekids.nasa.gov/climate-change-evidence/ (https://climatekids.nasa.gov/climate-change-evidence/)

Or if they can read you could point them to these

http://www.popsci.com/evidence-climate-change-is-real#page-9 (http://www.popsci.com/evidence-climate-change-is-real#page-9)
https://skepticalscience.com/evidence-for-global-warming.htm (https://skepticalscience.com/evidence-for-global-warming.htm)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 02, 2017, 03:54:57 PM
Quote from: Declan on June 02, 2017, 03:52:02 PM
QuoteThey're also talking about cost to american tax payers for something that has no evidence and leaning on that.

Well NASA have a site aimed at kids which might help them

https://climatekids.nasa.gov/climate-change-evidence/ (https://climatekids.nasa.gov/climate-change-evidence/)

Or if they can read you could point them to these

http://www.popsci.com/evidence-climate-change-is-real#page-9 (http://www.popsci.com/evidence-climate-change-is-real#page-9)
https://skepticalscience.com/evidence-for-global-warming.htm (https://skepticalscience.com/evidence-for-global-warming.htm)

thanks Declan this is exactly what I was looking for
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on June 02, 2017, 03:56:03 PM
Ask them to provide you with details of the peer reviewed journal they read it in so you can educate yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 04:21:26 PM
Dying to get Foxy's view on Trump and climate.
Trump is digging himself into a hole. So is Foxy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 02, 2017, 04:27:04 PM
QuoteYou're not going to get me mad. I didn't say our climate isn't changing. I just don't fully support it's man made. Facts have been distorted before on both sides and I always say follow the money and right now the money side is toward a lot of bogus carbon credits and such. As for us pulling out I think it was good because the US had a bum deal. China didn't have to curb or pay. If it is going to impact us it should be fair across the board. Not affecting one country more than another. That was what was wrong with the Paris accord

thats from a mate of mine over here who is a supporter... so his response it would seem is more focused on the actual agreement not climate change? would that be true of most supporters?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 02, 2017, 04:45:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 02, 2017, 02:55:59 PM
I don't like Trump and I'm all for protecting the world. I'm all for battling global warming and climate change. I think the US should have stayed and led the movement and I think what Trump did was a mistake.
But when conversing with friends who think it was a good call to leave I don't have any rebuttals. They say there is no evidence for climate change that it's all cyclical. We're on a 240 year cycle coming off the warming cycle and going in to the cooling cycle after 2019/2020 - which I think is horse shit...
But whats the come back - what evidence do you present to someone who thinks like that....

They're also talking about cost to american tax payers for something that has no evidence and leaning on that.

I've no interest in debating it all that much with them. but I'm curious to hear how you would respond.

So basically they are saying that the earth is heating up but they refute that it caused by Green house gas emissions?

Ive read alot of stuff of climate change skeptics and many of them changed their mind when they looked at fresh studies as the link is obvious, however all that is essentially an appeal to authority/consensus, so it may not sway them much in a casual conversation.

The first thing I would do is ask them what is causing these cycles and what the evidence is for their existence?

The most obvious and clear cut rebuttal is that the increase in global temperature appears to be directly related to an increase in CO2 in the atmosphere.

Also more convoluted but more convincing  evidence is the measure of radiation leaving the earth. Radiation levels have been measured by satellites orbiting the earth and have dropped from the 70s or 80s, since the radiation is not leaving the earth it is somehow being absorbed. But what is absorbed the radiation? Well a specific frequency of radiation being emitted has dropped and sure enough the frequency of radiation is the same type absorbed by CO2 whose levels have increased over the same time period. More radiation relates to more heat and sure enough the temperature of the earth is getting warmer. I read this study a wean years back and it put me from sort of 75% certain to 98%  as to the cause of global warming. It was the smoking gun for me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2017, 05:04:27 PM
Plus, we've only known that CO2 is a greenhouse gas for what... 150 years!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 02, 2017, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 02, 2017, 03:54:57 PM
Quote from: Declan on June 02, 2017, 03:52:02 PM
QuoteThey're also talking about cost to american tax payers for something that has no evidence and leaning on that.

Well NASA have a site aimed at kids which might help them

https://climatekids.nasa.gov/climate-change-evidence/ (https://climatekids.nasa.gov/climate-change-evidence/)

Or if they can read you could point them to these

http://www.popsci.com/evidence-climate-change-is-real#page-9 (http://www.popsci.com/evidence-climate-change-is-real#page-9)
https://skepticalscience.com/evidence-for-global-warming.htm (https://skepticalscience.com/evidence-for-global-warming.htm)

thanks Declan this is exactly what I was looking for

... although most of this is just about the evidence of Global warming which your friends dont appear to dispute.

THe only evidence it represents as to the link with CO2 is the correlation between temp rise and CO2 increase which they could pass of as circumstantial and/or partial.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 06:02:17 PM
These are good on twitter re US politics

@kurteichenwald
@davidfrum
@normornstein
@danpfeiffer
@mattyglesias
@ananavarro
@anneapplebaum
@joshtpm 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 02, 2017, 06:39:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

So Climate Change isnt happening but human activity has no little impact on Global Warming???

Would the Global Warming not be very definition of Climate change?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 02, 2017, 07:00:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 04:21:26 PM
Dying to get Foxy's view on Trump and climate.
Trump is digging himself into a hole. So is Foxy.

What do you mean? I've said nothing on the hysteria so far.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2017, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 02, 2017, 06:39:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

So Climate Change isnt happening but human activity has no little impact on Global Warming???

Would the Global Warming not be very definition of Climate change?

The planet is warming, but the evidence that is is caused by humans is tenuous at best.  The earth has gone through cycles of cooling and warming throughout history....they were predicting a minor ice age about 30 years ago.

When the statistics began to blow holes in their arguments the environmentalists changed the term from global warming to "climate change". So now if we enter a period of below average temperatures, that too can be blamed on C02.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 02, 2017, 07:39:26 PM
Anyone watching the hottest comedian in the USA right now?
The Hillary Clinton roadshow is absolutely hilarious.
The "Lap of defeat" 2017 tour is a smash!
Macedonia. PMSL. What material.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 02, 2017, 07:40:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 02, 2017, 06:39:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

So Climate Change isnt happening but human activity has no little impact on Global Warming???

Would the Global Warming not be very definition of Climate change?

The planet is warming, but the evidence that is is caused by humans is tenuous at best.  The earth has gone through cycles of cooling and warming throughout history....they were predicting a minor ice age about 30 years ago.

When the statistics began to blow holes in their arguments the environmentalists changed the term from global warming to "climate change". So now if we enter a period of below average temperatures, that too can be blamed on C02.

Surprisingly I partly agree with you... No one knows what exactly is going to happen 10, 50, 100, 500 years down the line. And there is evidence that the extra heat, water and CO2 will spur plant growth and reduce CO2. Not to mention that extra land will be more viable for food production.

However the evidence that Human activity is causing global warming is not tenuous its intrinsically linked.

The heating and cooling cycles in the Earth are due to regular deviations in the Earth orbit, which occur over millennia. There have also been other events causing cooling like volcanic activity etc or warming like position of the land mass and ocean exposure.  Whats causing the current cycle of warming which has taken place over a few centuries?

Please tell me where you think my current understanding of global warming and its affects break down.

Earth Heats up

We emit CO2
CO2 levels are recorded increasing in the atmosphere
Co2 absorbs sun radiation
Radiation emitted from the Earth reduces
Frequency of radiation that reduces is the same as that absorbed by CO2
Radiation remains within the Earths atmosphere

Earth Heats up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2017, 08:11:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 02, 2017, 06:39:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

So Climate Change isnt happening but human activity has no little impact on Global Warming???

Would the Global Warming not be very definition of Climate change?

The planet is warming, but the evidence that is is caused by humans is tenuous at best.  The earth has gone through cycles of cooling and warming throughout history....they were predicting a minor ice age about 30 years ago.

When the statistics began to blow holes in their arguments the environmentalists changed the term from global warming to "climate change". So now if we enter a period of below average temperatures, that too can be blamed on C02.

Any more vacuous GOP talking points you want to regurgitate?? Unbelievable!

The term "climate change" entered common use through the GOP on the advice of Frank Luntz. It's of a kind with Obamacare and death taxes.

But at least you concede that warming is occurring. Is the "pause" bullshit still not part if the right wing arsenal (I'm sure some say still that there's no warming at all). It's hard to keep up as they change the terms of the "debate" as the evidence forces them further and further back into the corner.

How the existence of natural cycles helps your case is beyond me. It's like pointing to the universal fact of death to dispute a murder charge. CO2 is a proven greenhouse gas. As is the much more potent but (thankfully) rarer, for now, methane.

I also like how you rail against environmentalists but ignore the scientists, as if they're irrelevant to this issue.

Do you value the opinion of antivaxxers over doctors and medical researchers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 09:02:38 PM
Fox News‏
@FoxNews
.@VP: "For some reason, this issue of climate change has emerged as a paramount issue for the left - in this country and around the world."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on June 02, 2017, 10:38:09 PM
so the issue seems to be with the accord itself and not the issue?
http://www.dailywire.com/news/17086/excellent-trump-5-reasons-trump-right-pull-out-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=060217-news&utm_campaign=restlesspatriot (http://www.dailywire.com/news/17086/excellent-trump-5-reasons-trump-right-pull-out-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=060217-news&utm_campaign=restlesspatriot)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 02, 2017, 11:25:13 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 02, 2017, 10:38:09 PM
so the issue seems to be with the accord itself and not the issue?
http://www.dailywire.com/news/17086/excellent-trump-5-reasons-trump-right-pull-out-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=060217-news&utm_campaign=restlesspatriot (http://www.dailywire.com/news/17086/excellent-trump-5-reasons-trump-right-pull-out-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=060217-news&utm_campaign=restlesspatriot)

President Trump is the cause of climate change.

I don't think anyone on the left wants to listen to any other reason that he pulled out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 02, 2017, 11:25:54 PM
Talk about climate change. It was raining yesterday and it's sunny today. Doomed I tell you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 02, 2017, 11:56:49 PM
A look at the origin of/credentials behind the "solar cycles" thing, and the claim that the earth will start to cool again in 2031.

http://environmentalforest.blogspot.com/2015/01/john-l-casey-and-climate-denial.html?m=1 (http://environmentalforest.blogspot.com/2015/01/john-l-casey-and-climate-denial.html?m=1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 03, 2017, 03:41:50 AM
You know what... if it wasn't for that bitch Eve we would all be in paradise and planned parenthood wouldn't be necessary and it would rain from the ground up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

Really, so how would you go about redistributing this wealth and what problems if any will arise when you start redistributing other peoples money? Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 09:22:08 AM
Quote from: stew on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

Really, so how would you go about redistributing this wealth and what problems if any will arise when you start redistributing other peoples money? Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )
Stew, it's easy to distribute the wealth of the ultra rich with political backup. You gently deflate the value of their bonds with inflation. It happened in the 50s and often before that.
Did you ever watch Brideshead Revisited ?
 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hotrocks on June 03, 2017, 10:51:47 AM
Quote from: stew on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

Really, so how would you go about redistributing this wealth and what problems if any will arise when you start redistributing other peoples money? Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )

Look forward every morning to check what Stew (not a newbie) has spewed all over the site.   Don't forget your medication big man. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2017, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 02, 2017, 07:39:26 PM
Anyone watching the hottest comedian in the USA right now?
The Hillary Clinton roadshow is absolutely hilarious.
The "Lap of defeat" 2017 tour is a smash!
Macedonia. PMSL. What material.

I agree with you on this.

Hillary should f**k away off the stage and stop talking about the  election. It's over for her. Whether its the hacking or the DNC(?) or James Comey, she ultimately screwed herself with the self-inflicted, completely avoidable, email scandal and a poor, oblivious strategy over the final weeks. She lost to probably the worst, most corrupt, most untruthful, most scandalous, sorriest excuse for a human being and presidential candidate ever. I get that she's humiliated, but its time for her to learn to live with it and move on. The Russia stuff will be handled (hopefully honestly and competently) without her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2017, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: stew on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

Really, so how would you go about redistributing this wealth and what problems if any will arise when you start redistributing other peoples money? Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )

Just what do you think taxes and social safety nets are if not redistribution of wealth??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2017, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 02, 2017, 10:38:09 PM
so the issue seems to be with the accord itself and not the issue?
http://www.dailywire.com/news/17086/excellent-trump-5-reasons-trump-right-pull-out-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=060217-news&utm_campaign=restlesspatriot (http://www.dailywire.com/news/17086/excellent-trump-5-reasons-trump-right-pull-out-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=060217-news&utm_campaign=restlesspatriot)

That seems to be the PR spin this week.

Shame about all the GOP rhetoric about climate change all being, for example, a Chinese hoax (Trump himself) or "the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people" (Senator Inhofe).

Shapiro is right in some respects. The US is reducing its CO2 footprint, regardless of Trump's big middle finger to the rest of the world, but that is no thanks to the Republicans or their policies or rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 03, 2017, 11:56:32 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2017, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: stew on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

Really, so how would you go about redistributing this wealth and what problems if any will arise when you start redistributing other peoples money? Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )

Just what do you think taxes and social safety nets are if not redistribution of wealth??

Taxes are necessary to run the infrastructure of the country and social safety nets are necessary for some people and abused by others, hardly a redistribution of wealth.

The rich should pay more because they have more but full onset mass redistribution of wealth would be catastrophic in my opinion.

I wish the republicans would tax the wealthy so that they paid their fair share like the working/middle classes do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

This is fascinating.....please explain how wealth distribution would work?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2017, 01:29:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 09:22:08 AM
Quote from: stew on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

Really, so how would you go about redistributing this wealth and what problems if any will arise when you start redistributing other peoples money? Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )
Stew, it's easy to distribute the wealth of the ultra rich with political backup. You gently deflate the value of their bonds with inflation. It happened in the 50s and often before that.
Did you ever watch Brideshead Revisited ?


Im sure the 0.0001% would love your proposal (given that most of their wealth is locked up in real estate and equities)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2017, 01:59:18 PM
Quote from: stew on June 03, 2017, 11:56:32 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2017, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: stew on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

Really, so how would you go about redistributing this wealth and what problems if any will arise when you start redistributing other peoples money? Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )

Just what do you think taxes and social safety nets are if not redistribution of wealth??

Taxes are necessary to run the infrastructure of the country and social safety nets are necessary for some people and abused by others, hardly a redistribution of wealth.

The rich should pay more because they have more but full onset mass redistribution of wealth would be catastrophic in my opinion.

I wish the republicans would tax the wealthy so that they paid their fair share like the working/middle classes do.

Stew, social safety nets are, by definition, redistribution of wealth. You take from everyone, you give to some, whether to alleviate poverty or unemployment or disability/illness. In most systems, wealthier people pay more and receive less.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 04:14:28 PM
Christ

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-justice-fbi-idUSKBN18T2S8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 04:21:55 PM
Hannity's 5 forces ranged against the moron in chief , Foxy and Whitey

1 Destroy Trump propaganda media
2 Deep State Establishment
3 Destroy Trump Democrats
4 Weak Establishment Republicans  so weak so timid spineless no vision
5 Never Trumpers. So called Republicans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlFnc3x36c 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 03, 2017, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

This is fascinating.....please explain how wealth distribution would work?

It is actually very simple... You take money from people who do not need to spend it and give it to folks who do. They spend it and that creates demand for more goods and services. Demand in turn creates jobs and the virtuous cycle begins.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2017, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 03, 2017, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

This is fascinating.....please explain how wealth distribution would work?

It is actually very simple... You take money from people who do not need to spend it and give it to folks who do. They spend it and that creates demand for more goods and services. Demand in turn creates jobs and the virtuous cycle begins.

What happens if the people you give it to are one (or more) of the following:

lazy
incompetent
drug addicted
alcoholic
morons

Who gets to decide if someone has money "they don't need"?

How do you continue to motivate the most productive and best educated in society to continue to work hard, invest and take initiative?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2017, 08:52:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 03, 2017, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

This is fascinating.....please explain how wealth distribution would work?

It is actually very simple... You take money from people who do not need to spend it and give it to folks who do. They spend it and that creates demand for more goods and services. Demand in turn creates jobs and the virtuous cycle begins.

What happens if the people you give it to are one (or more) of the following:

lazy
incompetent
drug addicted
alcoholic
morons

Who gets to decide if someone has money "they don't need"?

How do you continue to motivate the most productive and best educated in society to continue to work hard, invest and take initiative?

Obviously the people set the policy on taxation through elections?

As for "motivation", has the Ayn Rand fantasy of the "makers" withdrawing their contributions from society ever been an issue anywhere? Say somewhere with relatively high taxes like Scandinavia or 1950s USA?

And on abuse or idiocy, should we apply that argument to everything? How about guns? Or driving?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
Read what he said.....you TAKE money from people

What would I want to accumulate money or assets if someone could just decide to TAKE it

I understand my taxes could be raised, but the "re distributors" are proposing actual confiscation of assets. If you're okay with that....good for you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 09:29:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 03, 2017, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

This is fascinating.....please explain how wealth distribution would work?

It is actually very simple... You take money from people who do not need to spend it and give it to folks who do. They spend it and that creates demand for more goods and services. Demand in turn creates jobs and the virtuous cycle begins.

What happens if the people you give it to are one (or more) of the following:

lazy
incompetent
drug addicted
alcoholic
morons

Who gets to decide if someone has money "they don't need"?

How do you continue to motivate the most productive and best educated in society to continue to work hard, invest and take initiative?
There is no investment in the US. It's wall to wall st speculation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 03, 2017, 09:45:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
Read what he said.....you TAKE money from people

What would I want to accumulate money or assets if someone could just decide to TAKE it

I understand my taxes could be raised, but the "re distributors" are proposing actual confiscation of assets. If you're okay with that....good for you

I was attempting to keep it simple for you.. for "take" please substitute "taxation".

Do you want to have a successful economy that is driven by giving everyone a fair shake or an Ayn Rand dog eat dog strategy that accumulates control of demand in the hands of the few. You are buying the trickle down, job creator BS hook line and sinker. It is just a line to justify the wealthy paying less tax. There is no evidence (other than short term gains) that it has been beneficial to the economy. But you are more concerned that some "poor lazy morons" might get something they don't deserve than accepting that it is a small cost for a growing, healthy democracy.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 11:14:46 PM
Quote from: stew on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

Really, so how would you go about redistributing this wealth and what problems if any will arise when you start redistributing other peoples money? Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )

You really are a dumbass

Redistribution of wealth gets mentioned and your Anne Coulter conditioned reflex wets the bed.

What do you think the tax system is other than redistribution of wealth?

Why do you think you have a government other than redistribution of wealth?

You short sighted gombeen. The reason for intelligent redistribution of wealth is to promote the creation of wealth in the first place. It's the basic tenet of capitalism.

The problem with the US economy is that Congress and the Senate have pursued short sighted goals for the few instead of the long term goals of the many.

How do I propose a redistribution of wealth? Let's start by taking money from the working schlubbs and continuing to fund a military.  I'm also thinking maybe we should tax some corporate profits to ensure that medicine and drugs actually are safe for consumers. I am also a fan of taking money from businesses and the workers and from capital gains to fund an education system, you know, for kids.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 11:19:04 PM
Healthcare is 17% of GDP. At least 4% of GDP of that is pure profit taking. That could be redistributed.. 7% of GDP is prions.  Another 4% of GDP there. Prison numbers are 5x 1989 levels.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 11:24:12 PM
Quote
What happens if the people you give it to are one (or more) of the following:

lazy
incompetent
drug addicted
alcoholic
morons

Who gets to decide if someone has money "they don't need"?

How do you continue to motivate the most productive and best educated in society to continue to work hard, invest and take initiative?

In order asked
Those people become Republican politicians
The electorate does, when they vote based on a tax plan.
Capitalism.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2017, 12:06:19 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 11:24:12 PM
Quote
What happens if the people you give it to are one (or more) of the following:

lazy
incompetent
drug addicted
alcoholic
morons

Who gets to decide if someone has money "they don't need"?

How do you continue to motivate the most productive and best educated in society to continue to work hard, invest and take initiative?

In order asked
Those people become Republican politicians
The electorate does, when they vote based on a tax plan.
Capitalism.


So what would you view as an acceptable tax rate for (1) high earners (2) corporations (3) capital gains and (4) estate tax
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 04, 2017, 01:01:06 AM
Acceptable rates are those that would promote economic growth for the country, provide for a good standard of education, and health care. Encourage the role of capitalism is it's purest form and remove the bloat from the US budget and create a growing expanding fair US economy based in appropriate spending.

If you think that picking four numbers helps your understanding of that goal buy a scratch card.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 01:04:05 AM
The richest 1% own 50% of everything. They need to be dispossessed. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2017, 02:30:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
Read what he said.....you TAKE money from people

What would I want to accumulate money or assets if someone could just decide to TAKE it

I understand my taxes could be raised, but the "re distributors" are proposing actual confiscation of assets. If you're okay with that....good for you

Who is proposing "actual confiscation of assets" and what exactly does that mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 04, 2017, 06:50:58 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 11:14:46 PM
Quote from: stew on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

Really, so how would you go about redistributing this wealth and what problems if any will arise when you start redistributing other peoples money? Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )

You really are a dumbass

Redistribution of wealth gets mentioned and your Anne Coulter conditioned reflex wets the bed.

What do you think the tax system is other than redistribution of wealth?

Why do you think you have a government other than redistribution of wealth?

You short sighted gombeen. The reason for intelligent redistribution of wealth is to promote the creation of wealth in the first place. It's the basic tenet of capitalism.

The problem with the US economy is that Congress and the Senate have pursued short sighted goals for the few instead of the long term goals of the many.

How do I propose a redistribution of wealth? Let's start by taking money from the working schlubbs and continuing to fund a military.  I'm also thinking maybe we should tax some corporate profits to ensure that medicine and drugs actually are safe for consumers. I am also a fan of taking money from businesses and the workers and from capital gains to fund an education system, you know, for kids.

Ach hegan you lost the rag there son, pray tell how I am short sighted?

Businesses are taxed as are the working and middle classes, the mega rich do not pay their fair share of taxes and the right deserves a lot of criticism for this however BO has just left office after eight awful years, what did he do to tackle the issue of taxation of the one percenters??????

No matter what way you slice it, deflect from it or hurl abuse at people who call you out, you had no right whatsoever to be in the United States, so forgive me if I give not one fiddlers fart on anything you have to say on matters pertaining to the US of A, you were there illegally and you are the poster chi
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 03, 2017, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
Human impact on global warming is minimal

Climate change is a hoax and is nothing more than a carefully camouflaged attempt at redistribution of wealth

www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/amp/

Few points here.

Anyone who doesn't think there should be a redistribution of wealth who is not at least a USD millionaire is a special kind of stupid.

Also whitey. Science, seriously. Just f**king science.

Your shite is on a par with creationism. And that's also not real, no matter what your preacher or Paul Ryan says.

This is fascinating.....please explain how wealth distribution would work?

It is actually very simple... You take money from people who do not need to spend it and give it to folks who do. They spend it and that creates demand for more goods and services. Demand in turn creates jobs and the virtuous cycle begins.

What happens if the people you give it to are one (or more) of the following:

lazy
incompetent
drug addicted
alcoholic
morons

Who gets to decide if someone has money "they don't need"?

How do you continue to motivate the most productive and best educated in society to continue to work hard, invest and take initiative?



Hillary Clinton apparently Whitey! After all thats who the illegal sheep on here would have voted for after Saunders lay down and took the corruption that ended his run for POTUS.

I feel sorry for heganboy and his ilk, they contribute little but demand a lot they are not entitled to, they fail to see that if you destroy the basic tenets of a democracy /capitalistic society you actually leave no incentive for people to invest in growth and in the infrastructure of the country, heganboys cunning plan is to tax everyone except the illegals and the c***ts that are fit to but not willing to work, take many billions off rich investors through 'taxation' and they are supposed to be fine with their money being taken, it is typical of the left to want to earn nothing but to be given everything!

I seem to recall Obama bailing out the big banks and the City of Detroit via mega loans to major car companies, he forgot to stop the fat cats getting their so called bonus money for ruining the economy and losing many many billions of dollars, how does that work, I lose my company billions but hey, I get  a five million dollar bonus because my President is a useless twat!

The left had its chance, Trump is a democrat so hopefully next go around we can get a republican in there to sort out the corruption/incompetence of the left in the US.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 09:17:10 AM
The US economy has gone beyond the point where a tweak will make a difference. The neoliberal system is designed to shunt money to the ultra rich . It took 40 years to get to where we are now. In the early days it was about breaking unions . then it moved on to filling Congress with yes men. Then breaking the link between productivity and wage increases. Through it all debt was issued by the rich. The 2008 crash happened because poor Americans couldn't repay their sub prime loans because of no payrises. Since then the Fed has flooded the market with money. It drove asset values up by over $10 trillion for a real economy growth impact of $3 tn. Politics are polarised.
It's too late to fix the system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2017, 10:18:50 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 04, 2017, 01:01:06 AM
Acceptable rates are those that would promote economic growth for the country, provide for a good standard of education, and health care. Encourage the role of capitalism is it's purest form and remove the bloat from the US budget and create a growing expanding fair US economy based in appropriate spending.

If you think that picking four numbers helps your understanding of that goal buy a scratch card.

And therin lies the problem.....what you and others on the left find "acceptable" is anything but.

CT (where I lived for 5 years) has taxed their wealthiest and most productive citizens to oblivion, and they are fleeing the state in droves.  After losing GE last year, it was announced just last week that Aetna is leaving. 

http://www.courant.com/politics/hc-consensus-revenue-update-20170501-story.html

http://wtnh.com/2017/04/28/income-tax-revenue-collapses-malloy-says-taxing-the-rich-doesnt-work/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 10:50:59 AM
Taxing the rich only works efficiently with political backing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2017, 10:55:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 10:50:59 AM
Taxing the rich only works efficiently with political backing.

I don't understand that comment.....please explain
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 11:04:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 10:55:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 10:50:59 AM
Taxing the rich only works efficiently with political backing.

I don't understand that comment.....please explain
You need a political movement to change the system. Trump is a fake. He will keep it going. The US needs a grassroots based political movement that will have the power to change things. Grassroots plus politicians. So everyone in Congress and the Senate buys in.
That is how it worked in the 50s. 

Otherwise Sentaors get picked off and nothing changes. Eg AHCA.
the US is at a political point that happens maybe once every 40 years.
The only thing money fears is the people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
The thing is rich people have armies of accountants and lawyers and can figure out a way around a lot of taxes. From my viewpoint, instead of lobbying for actual workable reform the Democrats have lobbied  to their base and played the "class warfare card".  E.g. The "rich" aren't paying their "fair share". You're schools suck because that bastard doesn't pay enough

Instead of reforming the corporate tax rate (which is among the highest in the developed world) so companies actually will pay tax here, instead of running their earnings through a PO Box in Dublin all we hear from the likes of Granny Elizabeth Warren is bullshit about "corporate welfare".  That might win her a few votes, but it doesn't add one penny to the tax take
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2017, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
The thing is rich people have armies of accountants and lawyers and can figure out a way around a lot of taxes. From my viewpoint, instead of lobbying for actual workable reform the Democrats have lobbied  to their base and played the "class warfare card".  E.g. The "rich" aren't paying their "fair share". You're schools suck because that b**tard doesn't pay enough

Instead of reforming the corporate tax rate (which is among the highest in the developed world) so companies actually will pay tax here, instead of running their earnings through a PO Box in Dublin all we hear from the likes of Granny Elizabeth Warren is bullshit about "corporate welfare".  That might win her a few votes, but it doesn't add one penny to the tax take

I've no objection to lowering the corporate tax rate to encourage growth, but how many companies offshore their operations because of it? Will those tech and pharmaceutical companies bring their official tax locations back, or will there always be another country undercutting and setting up as a tax haven for them?

On the class warfare stuff, both parties play that game. Have you forgotten the "takers/makers" nonsense of 2012? Ryan still subscribes to that nonsense. Trump merely substituted class for "them" in the form of immigrants and muslims.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 12:15:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
The thing is rich people have armies of accountants and lawyers and can figure out a way around a lot of taxes. From my viewpoint, instead of lobbying for actual workable reform the Democrats have lobbied  to their base and played the "class warfare card".  E.g. The "rich" aren't paying their "fair share". You're schools suck because that b**tard doesn't pay enough

Instead of reforming the corporate tax rate (which is among the highest in the developed world) so companies actually will pay tax here, instead of running their earnings through a PO Box in Dublin all we hear from the likes of Granny Elizabeth Warren is bullshit about "corporate welfare".  That might win her a few votes, but it doesn't add one penny to the tax take
Tammany Hall was a powerful lobby once

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammany_Hall

Roosevelt and his lead campaign manager James Farley stripped Tammany of federal patronage, which had been expanded under the New Deal—and passed it instead to Ed Flynn, boss of the Bronx who had kept his district clean of corruption.[60] Roosevelt helped Republican Fiorello La Guardia become mayor on a Fusion ticket, thus removing even more patronage from Tammany's control. La Guardia was elected in 1933.[61] After becoming mayor, LaGuardia reorganized the city cabinet with non-partisan officials and sought to develop a clean and honest city government.[61]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2017, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
The thing is rich people have armies of accountants and lawyers and can figure out a way around a lot of taxes. From my viewpoint, instead of lobbying for actual workable reform the Democrats have lobbied  to their base and played the "class warfare card".  E.g. The "rich" aren't paying their "fair share". You're schools suck because that b**tard doesn't pay enough

Instead of reforming the corporate tax rate (which is among the highest in the developed world) so companies actually will pay tax here, instead of running their earnings through a PO Box in Dublin all we hear from the likes of Granny Elizabeth Warren is bullshit about "corporate welfare".  That might win her a few votes, but it doesn't add one penny to the tax take

I've no objection to lowering the corporate tax rate to encourage growth, but how many companies offshore their operations because of it? Will those tech and pharmaceutical companies bring their official tax locations back, or will there always be another country undercutting and setting up as a tax haven for them?

On the class warfare stuff, both parties play that game. Have you forgotten the "takers/makers" nonsense of 2012? Ryan still subscribes to that nonsense. Trump merely substituted class for "them" in the form of immigrants and muslims.

Unfortunately there is an underclass in this country that will never meaningfully contribute anything to society. Romneys choice of words was piss poor, but he was right on the money

Their  parents and grandparents contributed nothing and their children and grandchildren won't either

They are stuck in a perpetual cycle of poverty, addiction and crime.....it's all very depressing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2017, 01:22:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
The thing is rich people have armies of accountants and lawyers and can figure out a way around a lot of taxes. From my viewpoint, instead of lobbying for actual workable reform the Democrats have lobbied  to their base and played the "class warfare card".  E.g. The "rich" aren't paying their "fair share". You're schools suck because that b**tard doesn't pay enough

Instead of reforming the corporate tax rate (which is among the highest in the developed world) so companies actually will pay tax here, instead of running their earnings through a PO Box in Dublin all we hear from the likes of Granny Elizabeth Warren is bullshit about "corporate welfare".  That might win her a few votes, but it doesn't add one penny to the tax take

I've no objection to lowering the corporate tax rate to encourage growth, but how many companies offshore their operations because of it? Will those tech and pharmaceutical companies bring their official tax locations back, or will there always be another country undercutting and setting up as a tax haven for them?

On the class warfare stuff, both parties play that game. Have you forgotten the "takers/makers" nonsense of 2012? Ryan still subscribes to that nonsense. Trump merely substituted class for "them" in the form of immigrants and muslims.

Unfortunately there is an underclass in this country that will never meaningfully contribute anything to society. Romneys choice of words was piss poor, but he was right on the money

Their  parents and grandparents contributed nothing and their children and grandchildren won't either

They are stuck in a perpetual cycle of poverty, addiction and crime.....it's all very depressing

Seriously? Romney was "right on the money"? 47% of the people "contribute" nothing meaningful?

The extent of a person's contribution to society is defined by what they earn and pay in taxes?

What is "meaningful"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 04, 2017, 01:28:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
The thing is rich people have armies of accountants and lawyers and can figure out a way around a lot of taxes. From my viewpoint, instead of lobbying for actual workable reform the Democrats have lobbied  to their base and played the "class warfare card".  E.g. The "rich" aren't paying their "fair share". You're schools suck because that b**tard doesn't pay enough

Instead of reforming the corporate tax rate (which is among the highest in the developed world) so companies actually will pay tax here, instead of running their earnings through a PO Box in Dublin all we hear from the likes of Granny Elizabeth Warren is bullshit about "corporate welfare".  That might win her a few votes, but it doesn't add one penny to the tax take

I've no objection to lowering the corporate tax rate to encourage growth, but how many companies offshore their operations because of it? Will those tech and pharmaceutical companies bring their official tax locations back, or will there always be another country undercutting and setting up as a tax haven for them?

On the class warfare stuff, both parties play that game. Have you forgotten the "takers/makers" nonsense of 2012? Ryan still subscribes to that nonsense. Trump merely substituted class for "them" in the form of immigrants and muslims.

Unfortunately there is an underclass in this country that will never meaningfully contribute anything to society. Romneys choice of words was piss poor, but he was right on the money

Their  parents and grandparents contributed nothing and their children and grandchildren won't either

They are stuck in a perpetual cycle of poverty, addiction and crime.....it's all very depressing

That's partially true, but not close to being fiscally the most significant factor. Certainly the fewer people who are chronically dependent on welfare the more fiscal space for investment in growth, jobs, etc. But it's a second order issue.

Demagogues and hard right manipulators of opinion artificially inflate it to first order significance because they understand how it pays off politically to appeal to voters' baser instincts.

FISH - Fear, Ignorance, Stupidity and Hatred are no basis for a rational social and fiscal policy, but they are the stock in trade of the rightist ideologues who would "rather burn down the world than try to live in it like adults"*.

* Laurie Penny.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2017, 01:46:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 01:22:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
The thing is rich people have armies of accountants and lawyers and can figure out a way around a lot of taxes. From my viewpoint, instead of lobbying for actual workable reform the Democrats have lobbied  to their base and played the "class warfare card".  E.g. The "rich" aren't paying their "fair share". You're schools suck because that b**tard doesn't pay enough

Instead of reforming the corporate tax rate (which is among the highest in the developed world) so companies actually will pay tax here, instead of running their earnings through a PO Box in Dublin all we hear from the likes of Granny Elizabeth Warren is bullshit about "corporate welfare".  That might win her a few votes, but it doesn't add one penny to the tax take

I've no objection to lowering the corporate tax rate to encourage growth, but how many companies offshore their operations because of it? Will those tech and pharmaceutical companies bring their official tax locations back, or will there always be another country undercutting and setting up as a tax haven for them?

On the class warfare stuff, both parties play that game. Have you forgotten the "takers/makers" nonsense of 2012? Ryan still subscribes to that nonsense. Trump merely substituted class for "them" in the form of immigrants and muslims.

Unfortunately there is an underclass in this country that will never meaningfully contribute anything to society. Romneys choice of words was piss poor, but he was right on the money

Their  parents and grandparents contributed nothing and their children and grandchildren won't either

They are stuck in a perpetual cycle of poverty, addiction and crime.....it's all very depressing

Seriously? Romney was "right on the money"? 47% of the people "contribute" nothing meaningful?

The extent of a person's contribution to society is defined by what they earn and pay in taxes?

What is "meaningful"?

Note: I said contribute to society (I did not say contribute to the exchequer)

One can contribute to society in many positive ways that do not involve paying taxes.

Obeying the law is probably the most obvious

Not taking drugs is another

Not having kids with multiple unsuitable partners would be a third

Raising your kids as best you can would be a fourth

Taking responsibility for your own health would be a fifth

Unfortunately because of the vicious cycle of poverty, criminality and addiction these are easier said than done for many




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2017, 01:52:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 01:46:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 01:22:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
The thing is rich people have armies of accountants and lawyers and can figure out a way around a lot of taxes. From my viewpoint, instead of lobbying for actual workable reform the Democrats have lobbied  to their base and played the "class warfare card".  E.g. The "rich" aren't paying their "fair share". You're schools suck because that b**tard doesn't pay enough

Instead of reforming the corporate tax rate (which is among the highest in the developed world) so companies actually will pay tax here, instead of running their earnings through a PO Box in Dublin all we hear from the likes of Granny Elizabeth Warren is bullshit about "corporate welfare".  That might win her a few votes, but it doesn't add one penny to the tax take

I've no objection to lowering the corporate tax rate to encourage growth, but how many companies offshore their operations because of it? Will those tech and pharmaceutical companies bring their official tax locations back, or will there always be another country undercutting and setting up as a tax haven for them?

On the class warfare stuff, both parties play that game. Have you forgotten the "takers/makers" nonsense of 2012? Ryan still subscribes to that nonsense. Trump merely substituted class for "them" in the form of immigrants and muslims.

Unfortunately there is an underclass in this country that will never meaningfully contribute anything to society. Romneys choice of words was piss poor, but he was right on the money

Their  parents and grandparents contributed nothing and their children and grandchildren won't either

They are stuck in a perpetual cycle of poverty, addiction and crime.....it's all very depressing

Seriously? Romney was "right on the money"? 47% of the people "contribute" nothing meaningful?

The extent of a person's contribution to society is defined by what they earn and pay in taxes?

What is "meaningful"?

Note: I said contribute to society (I did not say contribute to the exchequer)

One can contribute to society in many positive ways that do not involve paying taxes.

Obeying the law is probably the most obvious

Not taking drugs is another

Not having kids with multiple unsuitable partners would be a third

Raising your kids as best you can would be a fourth

Taking responsibility for your own health would be a fifth

Unfortunately because of the vicious cycle of poverty, criminality and addiction these are easier said than done for many

And the 47% thing??

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2017, 02:02:56 PM
Romney's words:

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That's an entitlement. The government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49... he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5–10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 02:02:56 PM
Romney's words:

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That's an entitlement. The government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49... he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5–10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.
Trump targeted a lot of those people, unlke Romney
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 10:31:11 PM
Matt McDermott‏
Latest Gallup poll: Trump approval slipping further, now down to 36% approve, 58% disapprove. Nearing the lowest of his presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 05, 2017, 02:08:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2017, 01:46:50 PM

One can contribute to society in many positive ways that do not involve paying taxes.

Obeying the law is probably the most obvious

Not taking drugs is another

Not having kids with multiple unsuitable partners would be a third

Raising your kids as best you can would be a fourth

Taking responsibility for your own health would be a fifth

Unfortunately because of the vicious cycle of poverty, criminality and addiction these are easier said than done for many

Who decides Whitey?

Who is a suitable partner?
How do you raise your kids?
What is your responsibility for your health.?

You choose whatever suits your agenda and you keep battering away.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 05, 2017, 03:28:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
Read what he said.....you TAKE money from people

What would I want to accumulate money or assets if someone could just decide to TAKE it

I understand my taxes could be raised, but the "re distributors" are proposing actual confiscation of assets. If you're okay with that....good for you

How about those who are for wealth distribution give their own money away first. Then come back and preach.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2017, 03:38:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2017, 03:28:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
Read what he said.....you TAKE money from people

What would I want to accumulate money or assets if someone could just decide to TAKE it

I understand my taxes could be raised, but the "re distributors" are proposing actual confiscation of assets. If you're okay with that....good for you

How about those who are for wealth distribution give their own money away first. Then come back and preach.

I'd say most of us pay taxes.

Don't you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2017, 03:41:38 PM
So the Conspiracy Theorist/Bald-faced Liar in Chief is doubling down on his willful mispresentation of the statements of the mayor of London.

What a filthy excuse for a human being this dirtbag is.

Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed" statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871725780535062528 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871725780535062528)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 05, 2017, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: stew on June 04, 2017, 06:50:58 AM

Should they kick the illegals out of America BEFORE redistributing this wealth or fack it, should you and your fellow illegals get to have money they have not earned also???

I cannot be arsed with the science because your other points are so sickening I thought they needed attention, you are some pup, you went were you did not have the right and want money from others you did not earn, what are you are a sanctuary city supporter?

Thank you for reminding me why I despise the looney left. )

Businesses are taxed as are the working and middle classes, the mega rich do not pay their fair share of taxes and the right deserves a lot of criticism for this however BO has just left office after eight awful years, what did he do to tackle the issue of taxation of the one percenters??????

No matter what way you slice it, deflect from it or hurl abuse at people who call you out, you had no right whatsoever to be in the United States, so forgive me if I give not one fiddlers fart on anything you have to say on matters pertaining to the US of A, you were there illegally and you are the poster child


I feel sorry for heganboy and his ilk, they contribute little but demand a lot they are not entitled to, they fail to see that if you destroy the basic tenets of a democracy /capitalistic society you actually leave no incentive for people to invest in growth and in the infrastructure of the country, heganboys cunning plan is to tax everyone except the illegals and the c***ts that are fit to but not willing to work, take many billions off rich investors through 'taxation' and they are supposed to be fine with their money being taken, it is typical of the left to want to earn nothing but to be given everything!

I seem to recall Obama bailing out the big banks and the City of Detroit via mega loans to major car companies, he forgot to stop the fat cats getting their so called bonus money for ruining the economy and losing many many billions of dollars, how does that work, I lose my company billions but hey, I get  a five million dollar bonus because my President is a useless twat!

The left had its chance, Trump is a democrat so hopefully next go around we can get a republican in there to sort out the corruption/incompetence of the left in the US.

There is so much nonsense in this assembled rant that it is hard to know where to start. When you say you can't be arsed with science, you also can't be arsed with mathematics economics or facts either really, can you?

Do you understand the concept of federal government in the US? just to be clear the president requires the support of both houses to pass legislation. You know like trump has control of senate and congress right now, so he should be able to enforce change that you're looking for? love your characterization of the banks and car companies rescue, you really nailed it there. Is that a WSJ editorial you are writing?

"Trump is a democrat- can't wait for a republican?" Please tell me any politician in the US with a feasible plan for the US economy. The corruption of politics is endemic, and not limit to one party, and certainly not one ideology.

On a separate note- if I was illegal then my opinion wouldn't count- is that the theory you have today?
I'm not sure how its relevant to my opinion's validity but I am and since my arrival have been a legal resident in the US.
And again showcasing your tenuous grasp on economics in the US, ITIN payers are in most cases unable to claim any benefits, so they are a net contributor to the IRS.

Lets hear your proposals for fixing this mess
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
Stew is still hanging on his "Trump is a Democrat" nonsense?? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 03:41:38 PM
So the Conspiracy Theorist/Bald-faced Liar in Chief is doubling down on his willful mispresentation of the statements of the mayor of London.

What a filthy excuse for a human being this dirtbag is.

Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed" statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871725780535062528 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871725780535062528)
He is such a twat. He makes Nixon look balanced.
The US made such a mistake buying his bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2017, 04:30:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 03:41:38 PM
So the Conspiracy Theorist/Bald-faced Liar in Chief is doubling down on his willful mispresentation of the statements of the mayor of London.

What a filthy excuse for a human being this dirtbag is.

Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed" statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871725780535062528 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871725780535062528)
He is such a twat. He makes Nixon look balanced.
The US made such a mistake buying his bullshit.

His base still loves him. Probably loves him even more with each deranged pronouncement. His bullshit is right in line with what they've been fed by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and all the rest of them for years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 05, 2017, 04:46:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 03:38:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2017, 03:28:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
Read what he said.....you TAKE money from people

What would I want to accumulate money or assets if someone could just decide to TAKE it

I understand my taxes could be raised, but the "re distributors" are proposing actual confiscation of assets. If you're okay with that....good for you

How about those who are for wealth distribution give their own money away first. Then come back and preach.

I'd say most of us pay taxes.

Don't you?

empty their own bank accounts if the guilt gets to them so much.

It's a bit like the millions of new Social Media Eco-Warriors that have popped up in the last week.
If they feel bad about the state of the world then stop using cars, flying to Machu Picchu for holidays, wasting electricity to charge your smartphone to take more selfies etc.

Then feel free to open your yaps about climate change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2017, 05:06:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2017, 04:46:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 03:38:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2017, 03:28:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
Read what he said.....you TAKE money from people

What would I want to accumulate money or assets if someone could just decide to TAKE it

I understand my taxes could be raised, but the "re distributors" are proposing actual confiscation of assets. If you're okay with that....good for you

How about those who are for wealth distribution give their own money away first. Then come back and preach.

I'd say most of us pay taxes.

Don't you?

empty their own bank accounts if the guilt gets to them so much.

It's a bit like the millions of new Social Media Eco-Warriors that have popped up in the last week.
If they feel bad about the state of the world then stop using cars, flying to Machu Picchu for holidays, wasting electricity to charge your smartphone to take more selfies etc.

Then feel free to open your yaps about climate change.

First, on the social media stuff with respect to environmental sustainability (or terrorism or any number of issues) - yes, I would agree that JUST or ONLY giving out or showing "solidarity" by posting a tweet or facebook message is fairly toothless. On the other hand, presumably some of those people also vote according to their expressed leanings and volunteer or put their hand in their pocket to support charities and NGOs that will advance these causes.

However, the fact that our society and way of life is currently dependent on fossil fuels does not mean that people cannot advocate to have society become less dependent on them. Telling them to shut their "yap" is merely you saying "I don't want to hear about it and would rather ignore it".

And on "emptying their bank accounts", I'm sure if all it took to take care of society's less well off was a few people to empty their bank account, we would have no social deprivation to worry about. GW Bush once made a similarly attempted smart-arsed remark about taxes during a state of the union address. It was equally invalid then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 09:31:18 PM
Comey gives his spiel tomorrow. Should be very interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 06, 2017, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
Stew is still hanging on his "Trump is a Democrat" nonsense?? ;D

Is he a conservative?

He is one of you lot, get over it. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 06, 2017, 12:16:32 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
Stew is still hanging on his "Trump is a Democrat" nonsense?? ;D

Is he a conservative?

He is one of you lot, get over it. )
And Pat O'Neill is from Zimbabwe.

He regularly brought Sam to his local in Bulawayo, don't you know.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 06, 2017, 12:32:22 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
Stew is still hanging on his "Trump is a Democrat" nonsense?? ;D

Is he a conservative?

He is one of you lot, get over it. )

Pro life, anti muslim, likes old and new testament equally. . . if he's not a conservative then why do they make up so much of his support??

Does it even matter if he's a conservative himself if he's their guy??!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 06, 2017, 01:31:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 09:31:18 PM
Comey gives his spiel tomorrow. Should be very interesting.

Not until Thursday
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
Stew is still hanging on his "Trump is a Democrat" nonsense?? ;D

Is he a conservative?

He is one of you lot, get over it. )

Tell us how stew?

Is it the demonization of muslims and illegal immigrants?

Is it the muslim travel ban?

Is it the wall which will supposedly be paid for by Mexico?

Is it the opening of federal lands to coal, oil and mineral extraction?

Is it the pulling out of the Paris agreement basically to give the middle finger to the world?

Is it the defunding of any health or women's aid he can if there's even a tenuous connection to abortion or abortion information?

Is it the coming change of federal support from public school systems to private?

Is it the appointment of a textbook originalist jurist to the Supreme Court?

Is it the cozying up to Putin?

Is it the ignoring of any atrocity which happens to target muslims?

Is it the idiotic lack of self awareness in he and his family falsely targeting the muslim Mayor of London?

Is it the right hand man position given to probably the most well known enthusiast of so-called "alt-right" or white supremacist white, male persecution complex movement?

Is it the desire to abolish Obamacare and leave the poor and sick to struggle for the benefit of the rich?

Is it the proposals to dramatically lower taxes for the rich?

Is it the proposal to privatize the air traffic control industry?

How many of these positions and proposals and the many other statements and proposals to come are from the liberal or Democratic agenda?

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 06, 2017, 08:43:02 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 06, 2017, 01:31:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 09:31:18 PM
Comey gives his spiel tomorrow. Should be very interesting.

Not until Thursday

Thanks.

It's going to be worth watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnUpjZUpDng
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
Stew is still hanging on his "Trump is a Democrat" nonsense?? ;D

Is he a conservative?

He is one of you lot, get over it. )

Tell us how stew? OK snowflake, here goes.

Is it the demonization of muslims and illegal immigrants?

There is no demonization of muslims and illegal immigrants, he does not want people who have traveled to certain middle eastern countries to gain entry to the United States, it matters not what religion or secular beliefs they hold. As for illegal aliens in his country, the word illegal kind of gives a certain legitimacy to the fact he wants these illegals the f**k out of his country.

Is it the muslim travel ban?

There is no Muslim travel ban, that is a liberal term designed to incite hatred of the POTUS and the liberal sheep eat that shit up.

Is it the wall which will supposedly be paid for by Mexico?

He wants to keep illegal people out of his country, I applaud him for that, he is going about it the wrong way, how many people did Obama deport 70???

Is it the opening of federal lands to coal, oil and mineral extraction?

I seem to recall Obama giving an entire nation of native Americans a hard time over a pipeline, they are politicans and they can be disgusting bastards no matter red or blue.

Is it the pulling out of the Paris agreement basically to give the middle finger to the world?

He did not like the deal he was stuck with and is entitled to try and barter a new one, a better one for his country is he not????

Is it the defunding of any health or women's aid he can if there's even a tenuous connection to abortion or abortion information?

He has flipped flopped on this issue several times, further proof he was a liberal until he saw an opportunity on the right and took it, he is at heart one of you lot and thatmakes me plenty happy. )
Is it the coming change of federal support from public school systems to private?

Is it the appointment of a textbook originalist jurist to the Supreme Court?

He can appoint whomever the hell he wants, your turds fucked up so much he can ram stam anybody into any position because he has the votes in the houses to do so.

Is it the cozying up to Putin?

Hmmmmm, so two superpower leaders find one piece of common ground and hopefully will eradicate the evil muslim scum tearing up Europe by working together, is there a downside here? The better the Russians and Americans get along the better for the planet.

Is it the ignoring of any atrocity which happens to target muslims?

He has condemned all terrorist acts, what more do you want?

Is it the idiotic lack of self awareness in he and his family falsely targeting the muslim Mayor of London?

He is naive politically and has made a ton of mistakes, no more than thaat last dickhead in chief at the same juncture.

Is it the right hand man position given to probably the most well known enthusiast of so-called "alt-right" or white supremacist white, male persecution complex movement?

You are full of shit on this score.

Is it the desire to abolish Obamacare and leave the poor and sick to struggle for the benefit of the rich?


Obamacare is a disaster, he has made it worse and needs to make it better and right soon to!

Is it the proposals to dramatically lower taxes for the rich?

He believes that the rich invest big money and drive the economy with the savings they get on taxes, he is entitled to that belief and would happen to know a thing or two about taxation and the law around taxation and what a rich man can do with such funds. Go bankrupt for example!

Is it the proposal to privatize the air traffic control industry?

This is one of the worst proposals I have ever heard.

How many of these positions and proposals and the many other statements and proposals to come are from the liberal or Democratic agenda?

Well Obama wanted illegals out of the states and kicked  a lot out, the left have gone soft on taxation of the rich and they have fucked up universal healthcare, so they have that in common, follw the money kid, follow the money he gave in political donations and get back to me on his political leanings, most of it went to liberal causes, if he was such a conservative how do you justify that????
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 06, 2017, 05:17:49 PM
Stew. You are entitled to your belief system!!. But you need to use a few more facts to back up your abhorrence of Obama and the Democrats if you want me to take you seriously .
Make up your mind if you love or despise the Great Deal maker😂. He is the one who uses the term "Travel Ban" .
He pulled out of the Paris "deal" to renegotiate it. Well no one can do a deal like him I suppose. The fool did not realize that there was nothing to renegotiate; the targets are all self set and voluntary. But why waste an opportunity to Grandstand needlessly and piss off the rest of the planet when you can roll back the aspirations of the agreement with a stroke of the pen. He ran his casinos the same way and look what happened there.
As for Trump being a Democrat.. you are a wee bit right. He was a Democrat but decided that he would never have a chance of getting nominated to run for anything by Democrats so he became a Republican. They nominated him to run for President. He ran for President as a Republican, they voted for him and he won.  Therefore he is a Republican... currently the leader of the Republican Party....Fact
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 06, 2017, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 06, 2017, 05:17:49 PM
Stew. You are entitled to your belief system!!. But you need to use a few more facts to back up your abhorrence of Obama and the Democrats if you want me to take you seriously .
Make up your mind if you love or despise the Great Deal maker😂. He is the one who uses the term "Travel Ban" .
He pulled out of the Paris "deal" to renegotiate it. Well no one can do a deal like him I suppose. The fool did not realize that there was nothing to renegotiate; the targets are all self set and voluntary. But why waste an opportunity to Grandstand needlessly and piss off the rest of the planet when you can roll back the aspirations of the agreement with a stroke of the pen. He ran his casinos the same way and look what happened there.
As for Trump being a Democrat.. you are a wee bit right. He was a Democrat but decided that he would never have a chance of getting nominated to run for anything by Democrats so he became a Republican. They nominated him to run for President. He ran for President as a Republican, they voted for him and he won.  Therefore he is a Republican... currently the leader of the Republican Party....Fact

I dont like Trump, he is a complete and utter bollocks, I was just delighted the cheating left lost because I hate the cheating left with a passion, I went to the states a Democrat but they turn my stomach nowadays, that said Trump is a bad un, always was always will be, he just happens to be better than Clinton, a **** of the loweast order.

I dont care if you take me seriously or not, heres a fact for you, Obama added more to the national debt in eight years than every other President combined!

He never did ban Muslims, he banned people that had been in countries that he saw as aiding and abetting the radicalization of people, helping them become extremists and he does not want them in his country, I have no problem with that, but call me when he actually bans Muslims and we will talk.

Why grandstand? Really? Because he is so far up his own hole he thinks he is impervious to retribution for whatever comes out of his pie hole.

As for me being a wee bit right, I am 100% right, he was a democrat and ran as a republican because he saw an opportunity and ran with it.

I tell you what, I will post a few facts on the former Prez, your hero Obama for ya in a wee bit here, the man was a clown and he is part of the reason Clinton lost to Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 06, 2017, 05:47:07 PM
Here is Part one of the nighmare that was BO for you Omochain.
The Obama administration has been marred by debt, scandals, foreign policy failures, and an overall fragmentation of this country. He has plunged the United States into an abyss of economic debt that will create generations of American servitude paying off his wayward spending endeavors. The Red, White and Blue's epitaph will read like a litany of failures perpetrated on both the American people and the world by this president:

Scandals:

IRS targets Obama's enemies

Benghazi

Spying on the AP

The ATF "Fast and Furious" scheme

Sebelius demands payment

The Pigford Agriculture Department Scandal

The General Services Administration Las Vegas Spending Spree.

Veterans Affairs in Disney World and neglecting vets

Solyndra

New Black Panthers Voter Intimidation

The hacking of Sharyl Attkisson's computer

Obama's LIES about the Affordable Care Act

"I'll Pass My Own Laws"

NSA Spying on American People

The failure in Iran, I could go on and on, the man was one of the worst of all time, a horrendous President who failed both foreign policy wise as well as Domestically.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2017, 06:22:32 PM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
Stew is still hanging on his "Trump is a Democrat" nonsense?? ;D

Is he a conservative?

He is one of you lot, get over it. )


Tell us how stew? OK snowflake, here goes.


Snowflake? FFS! :D


Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the demonization of muslims and illegal immigrants?

There is no demonization of muslims and illegal immigrants, he does not want people who have traveled to certain middle eastern countries to gain entry to the United States, it matters not what religion or secular beliefs they hold. As for illegal aliens in his country, the word illegal kind of gives a certain legitimacy to the fact he wants these illegals the f**k out of his country.

Of course there was and is demonization. The Mexican rapists, the campaign rhetoric about banning ALL muslims.
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the muslim travel ban?

There is no Muslim travel ban, that is a liberal term designed to incite hatred of the POTUS and the liberal sheep eat that shit up.
You must have missed where Giuliani admitted on Fox News that the travel ban was basically put together as way to legally prevent muslims from entering the US. It was as close as they could get to a muslim ban. Giuliani's remit was "we want a muslim ban: find some way to do it legally".

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the wall which will supposedly be paid for by Mexico?

He wants to keep illegal people out of his country, I applaud him for that, he is going about it the wrong way, how many people did Obama deport 70???
Obama deported plenty, but focused on criminals and those caught near the border. Trump is going after EVERYONE, and doesn't give a shit how long they've been here. He sent his goons into a school in my neighbourhood a couple of weeks back looking for a fourth grader!

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the opening of federal lands to coal, oil and mineral extraction?

I seem to recall Obama giving an entire nation of native Americans a hard time over a pipeline, they are politicans and they can be disgusting b**tards no matter red or blue.

Obama suspended construction of that pipeline. Trump immediately reactivated it (no connection to the fact that the CEO of the company was a substantial contributor to his campaign, no doubt!). But Obama also expanded the amount of protected federal land dramatically, while Trump wants to open up everything, including the Artic National Wildlife Refuge and even parts of the Grand Canyon to exploitation.


Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the pulling out of the Paris agreement basically to give the middle finger to the world?

He did not like the deal he was stuck with and is entitled to try and barter a new one, a better one for his country is he not?

Of course he is. But that action was not the action of a liberal/Democrat.

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the defunding of any health or women's aid he can if there's even a tenuous connection to abortion or abortion information?

He has flipped flopped on this issue several times, further proof he was a liberal until he saw an opportunity on the right and took it, he is at heart one of you lot and thatmakes me plenty happy. )

If true, why would this make you happy?

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the coming change of federal support from public school systems to private?

Is it the appointment of a textbook originalist jurist to the Supreme Court?

He can appoint whomever the hell he wants, your turds fucked up so much he can ram stam anybody into any position because he has the votes in the houses to do so.

I don't think anyone is arguing that he can or cannot do it. The point here is whether he is a liberal/Democrat or a conservative/Republican.

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the cozying up to Putin?
Hmmmmm, so two superpower leaders find one piece of common ground and hopefully will eradicate the evil muslim scum tearing up Europe by working together, is there a downside here? The better the Russians and Americans get along the better for the planet.

No doubt, but the Dems have hardly been buddies with Putin, while the right wing (less so mainstreamers like McCain) have been gushing over Putin's strong man act for quite a while now.

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the ignoring of any atrocity which happens to target muslims?

He has condemned all terrorist acts, what more do you want?
He jumps right on acts of terror by muslims. He belatedly (and often through the handled twitter feed) offer bland comments on acts of terror targeting muslims, usually after being criticized for a lack of response. See Quebec, Kansas and Portland for recent examples.

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the idiotic lack of self awareness in he and his family falsely targeting the muslim Mayor of London?

He is naive politically and has made a ton of mistakes, no more than thaat last d**khead in chief at the same juncture.

There is nothing naïve about making up shit to appeal to his base. He blatantly lied and misrepresented what the mayor of London said, purely for political gain.

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the right hand man position given to probably the most well known enthusiast of so-called "alt-right" or white supremacist white, male persecution complex movement?

You are full of shit on this score.
Bannon DOESN'T have a highly influential role in the White House?

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the desire to abolish Obamacare and leave the poor and sick to struggle for the benefit of the rich?


Obamacare is a disaster, he has made it worse and needs to make it better and right soon to!

How is he going to make it better (he promised better and cheaper, whatever magic beans he is going to use for that one!).

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the proposals to dramatically lower taxes for the rich?

He believes that the rich invest big money and drive the economy with the savings they get on taxes, he is entitled to that belief and would happen to know a thing or two about taxation and the law around taxation and what a rich man can do with such funds. Go bankrupt for example!

Once again stew, the issue is not the beliefs and actions per se, but whether they're the positions of a man who is a liberal/Democrat.

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Is it the proposal to privatize the air traffic control industry?

This is one of the worst proposals I have ever heard.
Maybe so, but see previous answer.

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
How many of these positions and proposals and the many other statements and proposals to come are from the liberal or Democratic agenda?

Well Obama wanted illegals out of the states and kicked  a lot out, the left have gone soft on taxation of the rich and they have fucked up universal healthcare, so they have that in common, follw the money kid, follow the money he gave in political donations and get back to me on his political leanings, most of it went to liberal causes, if he was such a conservative how do you justify that?

Quite simple stew, and we've gone over this a number of times, you and me, but you refuse to acknowledge the point.

Trump contributes to and buys off whatever politicians of whatever party he feels he needs to to grease the wheels for himself and his companies. In the NY tristate area and Chicago, those will be Democrats. Elsewhere, Republicans. His contributions have swung dramatically towards Republicans in recent years as he has cultivated what eventually turned into his presidential campaign and election.

Personally, I don't believe he gives a f**k about any political position or concept or theory that doesn't affect his personal bottom line and self-aggrandizement. I'm sure if he felt he could have swung it, he would have pursued the Democratic nomination. But (and he is on record regarding this from nearly 20 years ago) he saw that the right wing was much more receptive to demagoguery and scapegoating, and he is willing to say anything and hurt anyone just so he can be president. I'm sure there is a bit of personal animus in there too to stick it to Obama for humiliating him all those years ago.

Your continued insistence that this man is really a liberal and/or Democrat is just ludicrous in the face of the actual policies he is pursuing and the obvious fact that the only principals he really possesses extend no further than his own narcissism and ego. Even above, you're mostly reflexively mounting a defense of what Trump does, losing sight of the fact that the point is that he is NOT a liberal or Democrat and that the stuff he is doing is completely from the Republican side of the political spectrum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2017, 06:29:55 PM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2017, 05:47:07 PM
Here is Part one of the nighmare that was BO for you Omochain.
The Obama administration has been marred by debt, scandals, foreign policy failures, and an overall fragmentation of this country. He has plunged the United States into an abyss of economic debt that will create generations of American servitude paying off his wayward spending endeavors. The Red, White and Blue's epitaph will read like a litany of failures perpetrated on both the American people and the world by this president:

Scandals:

IRS targets Obama's enemies

Benghazi

Spying on the AP

The ATF "Fast and Furious" scheme

Sebelius demands payment

The Pigford Agriculture Department Scandal

The General Services Administration Las Vegas Spending Spree.

Veterans Affairs in Disney World and neglecting vets

Solyndra

New Black Panthers Voter Intimidation

The hacking of Sharyl Attkisson's computer

Obama's LIES about the Affordable Care Act

"I'll Pass My Own Laws"

NSA Spying on American People

The failure in Iran, I could go on and on, the man was one of the worst of all time, a horrendous President who failed both foreign policy wise as well as Domestically.

You could at least credit the man you ripped the above from stew.

Unless you're really Stephen Martino??
http://www.martinoauthor.com/list-obama-failures/ (http://www.martinoauthor.com/list-obama-failures/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 06, 2017, 07:45:00 PM
Jeezz Stew.. I'm an "ould" man .. I do not have the energy to debunk each of Martino's points so let's take Benghazi.  I believe 2 years of Republican congressional investigations cleared her without ever mentioning the underlying cause that left the Benghazi diplomatic mission so exposed. THE REPUBLICANS CUT FUNDING TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT. They did not have enough money for adequate protection.

Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2017, 09:00:18 PM
Rumours now that the colossal tosser is pissed off and fed up with Sessions, of all people! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 06, 2017, 09:18:38 PM
How does bill Maher still have his show on hbo after using the n word last Friday ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 06, 2017, 11:22:14 PM
Stealing money destined to go to a kids charity :-X

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/06/06/how-donald-trump-shifted-kids-cancer-charity-money-into-his-business/#7b7fb1bc6b4a
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2017, 11:46:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!

What "agendas"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 07, 2017, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!

No wind up. Obama is a very decent man.
Just because the right keep saying something, does not mean it is true.
All the economic stats and indicators say he did a great job despite the best efforts of Mitch McTurtle & Co
You lot are so transparent.. you keep on using plays from Goebbels play book. Lie repeat, lie repeat and on and you think that will make it true.

Now can you please explain how Obama dismantled America?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on June 07, 2017, 04:58:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac
How does bill Maher still have his show on hbo after using the n word last Friday ?


""How Is a certain Poster on here , (who posted a vicious lie about the great Joe Brolly only 3 days ago) still allowed to post on here ? ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 07:24:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2017, 09:00:18 PM
Rumours now that the colossal t**ser is pissed off and fed up with Sessions, of all people! ;D
I think he''s overwhelmed. If this was private sector by now he would go for bankruptcy but he can't. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on June 07, 2017, 09:55:28 AM
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-us-coalition-bombs-syrian-army-southeast-homs/

To summarise, the Syrian Army is fired upon in its own country by a foreign army that has unilaterally established a zone of 50km in Syria, because the Syrian army entered this zone.

Meanwhile, without a hint of irony, the new girl on the UN block criticises the UN's "chronic anti-Israel" bias while at the same time calling on Venezuela to step down from the council due to its human rights record. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 10:07:13 AM
Fox is great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVFi779GROk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 07, 2017, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 10:07:13 AM
Fox is great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVFi779GROk

Quote"To me, they're not even people. It's so, so sad. Morality's just gone, morals have flown out the window and we deserve so much better than this as a country."

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/30/16/2AF709B600000578-0-image-a-2_1438268837759.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 07, 2017, 02:36:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 06, 2017, 09:18:38 PM
How does bill Maher still have his show on hbo after using the n word last Friday ?

He is an uber liberal who has dated a plethora of african american women, he cool, hes hip and did I mention he is a liberal so is above reproach!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 07, 2017, 02:46:40 PM
I am delighted to see that the yankee Government has caught their first so called whistleblower, it is unfortunate young winner can only do ten years, she is a Saunders fan who served in the military and was hired with high security clearance, she does not really do irony because despite hating Trump she does not seem to get the fact he is her boss! I really hope they hammer this kn**ker to deter others from treasonous acts!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 07, 2017, 02:56:57 PM
Dean Saunders?

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/12/13/article-1338337-02F43E3D000005DC-735_468x286.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on June 07, 2017, 03:57:55 PM
""How does bill Maher still have his show on hbo after using the n word last Friday ?""

""""He is an uber liberal who has dated a plethora of african american women, he cool, hes hip and did I mention he is a liberal so is above reproach!""


""How Is a certain Poster on here , (who posted a vicious lie about the great Joe Brolly only 3 days ago) still allowed to post on here ? ;)

I guess because  ""the clown"" took it down quickly ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 07, 2017, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 07, 2017, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!

No wind up. Obama is a very decent man.
Just because the right keep saying something, does not mean it is true.
All the economic stats and indicators say he did a great job despite the best efforts of Mitch McTurtle & Co
You lot are so transparent.. you keep on using plays from Goebbels play book. Lie repeat, lie repeat and on and you think that will make it true.

Now can you please explain how Obama dismantled America?

Substitute decent for smarmy piece of work. The whole Moneygall episode still churns my stomach and cheerleading eejits bought it hook line and sinker. The cringe factor was 100%

Repeating the "Change" mantra doesn't make it true. Poor brainwashed liberals.

The current polarisation of the USA is evidence enough of obama's policies, enough to ensure that someone who opposed his ideals was elected as president, albeit 4 (or 8!!) years too late. His pandering to certain groups showed where his true "change" aims lay.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 07, 2017, 04:20:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 10:07:13 AM
Fox is great

You're right there - some crazy stuff from BLM. Batchelorette...lol!
Tucker calling out the BS and highlighting the hypocrisy of society.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/06/black-lives-matter-black-only-memorial-day-picnic-tucker-carlson-lisa-durden
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 07, 2017, 04:36:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 07, 2017, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 07, 2017, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!

No wind up. Obama is a very decent man.
Just because the right keep saying something, does not mean it is true.
All the economic stats and indicators say he did a great job despite the best efforts of Mitch McTurtle & Co
You lot are so transparent.. you keep on using plays from Goebbels play book. Lie repeat, lie repeat and on and you think that will make it true.

Now can you please explain how Obama dismantled America?

Substitute decent for smarmy piece of work. The whole Moneygall episode still churns my stomach and cheerleading eejits bought it hook line and sinker. The cringe factor was 100%

Repeating the "Change" mantra doesn't make it true. Poor brainwashed liberals.

The current polarisation of the USA is evidence enough of obama's policies, enough to ensure that someone who opposed his ideals was elected as president, albeit 4 (or 8!!) years too late. His pandering to certain groups showed where his true "change" aims lay.

Yeah we are more polarized than ever. I will agree with you on that. But blaming the polarization on the Black Guy is just wrong. The Republican Party continue to feed poor white people a diet of religion and racism so they will vote against their own economic self interest. When a decent black guy who was the antithesis of their narrative showed up ... you lot went apeshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 07, 2017, 04:57:56 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 07, 2017, 04:36:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 07, 2017, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 07, 2017, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!

No wind up. Obama is a very decent man.
Just because the right keep saying something, does not mean it is true.
All the economic stats and indicators say he did a great job despite the best efforts of Mitch McTurtle & Co
You lot are so transparent.. you keep on using plays from Goebbels play book. Lie repeat, lie repeat and on and you think that will make it true.

Now can you please explain how Obama dismantled America?

Substitute decent for smarmy piece of work. The whole Moneygall episode still churns my stomach and cheerleading eejits bought it hook line and sinker. The cringe factor was 100%

Repeating the "Change" mantra doesn't make it true. Poor brainwashed liberals.

The current polarisation of the USA is evidence enough of obama's policies, enough to ensure that someone who opposed his ideals was elected as president, albeit 4 (or 8!!) years too late. His pandering to certain groups showed where his true "change" aims lay.

Yeah we are more polarized than ever. I will agree with you on that. But blaming the polarization on the Black Guy is just wrong. The Republican Party continue to feed poor white people a diet of religion and racism so they will vote against their own economic self interest. When a decent black guy who was the antithesis of their narrative showed up ... you lot went apeshit.

I think he went a little bit further than that. While everyone is aware of the injustices of the past the elevation of some groups of people over others by Obama didn't go unnoticed. If you watch the Tucker carlson link I posted it highlights that equality isn't enough for some and theres still a push for more concessions. I was thinking while watching it that Martin Luther King would be embarrassed by that guest.

If you want a level playing field and social harmony then aim towards that - pushing agendas for one group over another will not achieve that balance. Obama showed his hand mutliple times and lest we forget a total disregard for the police force when he really should have been backing them.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 07, 2017, 05:19:33 PM
Completely agree with you... that lady with Tucker Carlson is a racist. Obama was and is not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 05:31:32 PM
Polarisation is everywhere because of pay freezes and bond bubbles. We need a new economic system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on June 08, 2017, 01:08:31 PM
When does the Comey show kick off?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 08, 2017, 01:53:39 PM
3:00
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on June 08, 2017, 02:03:44 PM
If it any thing like yesterday, it'll be a damp squib. But Comey has nothing to lose so it should be interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on June 08, 2017, 03:27:47 PM
Interesting to see where this will all end but so far highlights include:


James Comey says that US President Donald Trump repeatedly told him he was 'doing a great job' as FBI director

Comey on FBI attacks by Trump: "Those were lies, plain and simple. And I am so sorry the FBI had to hear those."

Former FBI director James Comey says he was confused by the "shifting explanations" for why he was fired

James Comey says he has no doubt that Russia interfered with the US Presidential Election

In relation to meeting Trump, Comey says he took notes as he was "honestly concerned that he would lie about the nature of our meeting"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 08, 2017, 03:46:17 PM
The more you look at this the more "the dossier" starts to seem like a factual document!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on June 08, 2017, 04:04:33 PM
Now that Comey's out of the job and given that he's sure "the Russians" interfered in  the U.S. election, will he able to give us the evidence to back this up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2017, 04:07:53 PM
That's Mueller's job now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on June 08, 2017, 04:19:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2017, 04:07:53 PM
That's Mueller's job now
It is. But if the other lad has it and has nobody to answer to, why not share?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 08, 2017, 05:03:06 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 08, 2017, 04:19:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2017, 04:07:53 PM
That's Mueller's job now
It is. But if the other lad has it and has nobody to answer to, why not share?

Classified I'm sure so wouldn't matter whether he still held the office or not!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on June 08, 2017, 05:16:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 08, 2017, 05:03:06 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 08, 2017, 04:19:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2017, 04:07:53 PM
That's Mueller's job now
It is. But if the other lad has it and has nobody to answer to, why not share?

Classified I'm sure so wouldn't matter whether he still held the office or not!
Classified in that he doesn't personally have knowledge of it or that he's sworn to secrecy after leaving the job? I'm not actually expecting him to reveal it. Just wondering what the situation is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2017, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: stew on June 07, 2017, 02:36:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 06, 2017, 09:18:38 PM
How does bill Maher still have his show on hbo after using the n word last Friday ?

He is an uber liberal who has dated a plethora of african american women, he cool, hes hip and did I mention he is a liberal so is above reproach!

Stop your ridiculous whining.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2017, 05:43:41 PM
Quote from: stew on June 07, 2017, 02:46:40 PM
I am delighted to see that the yankee Government has caught their first so called whistleblower, it is unfortunate young winner can only do ten years, she is a Saunders fan who served in the military and was hired with high security clearance, she does not really do irony because despite hating Trump she does not seem to get the fact he is her boss! I really hope they hammer this kn**ker to deter others from treasonous acts!

Good job for her that Trump "loves" leakers, or at least Wikileaks.

I guess it depends on who they're damaging for Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2017, 05:48:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 07, 2017, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 07, 2017, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!

No wind up. Obama is a very decent man.
Just because the right keep saying something, does not mean it is true.
All the economic stats and indicators say he did a great job despite the best efforts of Mitch McTurtle & Co
You lot are so transparent.. you keep on using plays from Goebbels play book. Lie repeat, lie repeat and on and you think that will make it true.

Now can you please explain how Obama dismantled America?

Substitute decent for smarmy piece of work. The whole Moneygall episode still churns my stomach and cheerleading eejits bought it hook line and sinker. The cringe factor was 100%

Repeating the "Change" mantra doesn't make it true. Poor brainwashed liberals.

The current polarisation of the USA is evidence enough of obama's policies, enough to ensure that someone who opposed his ideals was elected as president, albeit 4 (or 8!!) years too late. His pandering to certain groups showed where his true "change" aims lay.

Right, because the US was such a united, happy place before 2008.

There was no Rush Limbaugh, no Fox News, no Tom DeLay or Newt Gingrich, no Clinton witch hunts, no congressional staffers intimidating election staff in Florida, no Swiftboat campaign, no ludicrous demonization and intimidation of anyone who questioned GW Bush and the move to Iraq war (Dixie Chicks FFS!), no GOP anti-gay campaigns etc. etc.

Maybe you were born yesterday, but the rest of us weren't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 08:04:58 PM
trump picked the wrong enemy.
Leaking info to get a Special Counsel was senior hurling
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 08, 2017, 08:44:05 PM
Where was John McCain's nurse?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 08, 2017, 10:31:15 PM
Apparently she was watching the Diamondbacks last night and slept it out this morning. She did show up this afternoon and tweeted out what McCain really meant. :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 09, 2017, 07:35:44 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2017, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: stew on June 07, 2017, 02:36:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 06, 2017, 09:18:38 PM
How does bill Maher still have his show on hbo after using the n word last Friday ?

He is an uber liberal who has dated a plethora of african american women, he cool, hes hip and did I mention he is a liberal so is above reproach!

Stop your ridiculous whining.

Ah, bad day at the office yesterday snowflake!  :)

Should the man be fired for using the N word or not 70?

I loved yesterday, the looney liberal lefts attack dog looked very bad, i.e the press thanks to the coward Comey, Loretta Lynch seems to be fucked down the road and the democrats were shown up for the horrible c***ts they are! Add in the fact Labour and Corbyn had a great night and the conservatives shat the bed it was a tremendous political day for decency on two fronts, thousand of miles apart.  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:18:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2017, 05:48:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 07, 2017, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 07, 2017, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!

No wind up. Obama is a very decent man.
Just because the right keep saying something, does not mean it is true.
All the economic stats and indicators say he did a great job despite the best efforts of Mitch McTurtle & Co
You lot are so transparent.. you keep on using plays from Goebbels play book. Lie repeat, lie repeat and on and you think that will make it true.

Now can you please explain how Obama dismantled America?

Substitute decent for smarmy piece of work. The whole Moneygall episode still churns my stomach and cheerleading eejits bought it hook line and sinker. The cringe factor was 100%

Repeating the "Change" mantra doesn't make it true. Poor brainwashed liberals.

The current polarisation of the USA is evidence enough of obama's policies, enough to ensure that someone who opposed his ideals was elected as president, albeit 4 (or 8!!) years too late. His pandering to certain groups showed where his true "change" aims lay.

Right, because the US was such a united, happy place before 2008.

There was no Rush Limbaugh, no Fox News, no Tom DeLay or Newt Gingrich, no Clinton witch hunts, no congressional staffers intimidating election staff in Florida, no Swiftboat campaign, no ludicrous demonization and intimidation of anyone who questioned GW Bush and the move to Iraq war (Dixie Chicks FFS!), no GOP anti-gay campaigns etc. etc.

Maybe you were born yesterday, but the rest of us weren't.

Listen kid, the left own the media in the states, they own the Universities are they are all as corrupt as f**k! I love it that the democrats hung Comey out to dry and then, when he started to turn on Trump they fell silent and supported him, now, a few hours after his testimony they have egg plastered all over their faces and Trump is more secure than ever, long live this version of the democrats, they are absolutely useless, toothless and and completely unfit to govern, everything they touch turns to shit.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2017, 03:45:42 PM
Quote from: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:18:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2017, 05:48:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 07, 2017, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 07, 2017, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!

No wind up. Obama is a very decent man.
Just because the right keep saying something, does not mean it is true.
All the economic stats and indicators say he did a great job despite the best efforts of Mitch McTurtle & Co
You lot are so transparent.. you keep on using plays from Goebbels play book. Lie repeat, lie repeat and on and you think that will make it true.

Now can you please explain how Obama dismantled America?

Substitute decent for smarmy piece of work. The whole Moneygall episode still churns my stomach and cheerleading eejits bought it hook line and sinker. The cringe factor was 100%

Repeating the "Change" mantra doesn't make it true. Poor brainwashed liberals.

The current polarisation of the USA is evidence enough of obama's policies, enough to ensure that someone who opposed his ideals was elected as president, albeit 4 (or 8!!) years too late. His pandering to certain groups showed where his true "change" aims lay.

Right, because the US was such a united, happy place before 2008.

There was no Rush Limbaugh, no Fox News, no Tom DeLay or Newt Gingrich, no Clinton witch hunts, no congressional staffers intimidating election staff in Florida, no Swiftboat campaign, no ludicrous demonization and intimidation of anyone who questioned GW Bush and the move to Iraq war (Dixie Chicks FFS!), no GOP anti-gay campaigns etc. etc.

Maybe you were born yesterday, but the rest of us weren't.

Listen kid, the left own the media in the states, they own the Universities are they are all as corrupt as f**k! I love it that the democrats hung Comey out to dry and then, when he started to turn on Trump they fell silent and supported him, now, a few hours after his testimony they have egg plastered all over their faces and Trump is more secure than ever, long live this version of the democrats, they are absolutely useless, toothless and and completely unfit to govern, everything they touch turns to shit.  ;D

Spare us the media shite - you know f**king well that's a load of bollocks.

And Trump is by no means out of the woods. Coney punted to Mueller on the obstruction of justice, but left no doubt that he was fired due to his refusal to back off on the investigation. He also unequivocally called the president of the US a bald-faced liar.

Trump was never going to be impeached as that is a political issue and he has the congress, but he is continually being exposed for the narcissistic, corrupt, sorry excuse for a human being that he is.
He may not be impeached, but that stuff takes a serious toll on the implementation of any political agenda, as the useless **** is finding out.

Bask in that!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 09, 2017, 03:56:56 PM
Quote from: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:18:54 AMI love it that the democrats hung Comey out to dry and then, when he started to turn on Trump they fell silent and supported him, now, a few hours after his testimony they have egg plastered all over their faces and Trump is more secure than ever, long live this version of the democrats, they are absolutely useless, toothless and and completely unfit to govern, everything they touch turns to shit.  ;D

Stew,
I'm not sure you and the rest of us live in the same version of reality

The interesting question is going to be what will the next election cycles bring to the fray in terms of educating voters and providing facts. All politicians in the US have been on this tenuous connection with reality based on the polarization of press coverage, so that the broadcasters can line their pockets.

The current president may even get another term, but I don't think we have reached the zenith of hate speech, foreign governments and fake news influencing the aging masses.

When the former FBI director calls the President of the United States a liar, and the speaker of the house says it was perfectly understandable that he behaved like that, as he doesn't really know how government works, and the interpretation of observers is that Trump is more secure than ever, it is clear that there is a significant problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 04:08:01 PM
As soon as Trump's poll numbers go below 30 his days will be numbered.  The GOP need him for votes but when he goes too far he will become expendable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 09, 2017, 04:34:35 PM
Quote from: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:18:54 AM

Listen kid, the left own the media in the states, they own the Universities are they are all as corrupt as f**k! I love it that the democrats hung Comey out to dry and then, when he started to turn on Trump they fell silent and supported him, now, a few hours after his testimony they have egg plastered all over their faces and Trump is more secure than ever, long live this version of the democrats, they are absolutely useless, toothless and and completely unfit to govern, everything they touch turns to shit.  ;D

I'm loving the fact that CNN & Co are being shown up for the liars they are and purveyors of fake news.
You have Warren, Al Green, Waters & co with steam coming out of their ears as they thought they might have a shot at impeachment.

Where is Eamon these days? I've a question to ask him :D

and how sad is it that you have all these liberals lining up to get in to watch the hearing. It's not a U2 concert. Some waiting from 4am to get in. Then you have bars opening up to show live coverage. insane.

Long live President Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 09, 2017, 04:38:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 04:08:01 PM
As soon as Trump's poll numbers go below 30 his days will be numbered.  The GOP need him for votes but when he goes too far he will become expendable.

And presumably they'd prefer Republican President Pence anyway so, a bit like Fianna Fail biding their time before forcing the election, I imagine it's just a matter of Congress Republicans taking their time until they decide which outrage they'll choose as the vehicle for impeachment. It won't be hard. There are several every week. And they'll look like good guys doing the right thing.

President Pence - now there's a whole other weekend away with the DUP, but that's for another day. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 09, 2017, 05:07:59 PM
Impeachment requires majority vote, not possible.

The president is a liar says the newly sacked director of the FBI
Russia did interfere in the election
Special investigator has all the evidence, his call.
Dodd Frank shut down against the banks advice and No-one noticed​

somehow this is normal. Four legs good two legs bad.

The US tax and electoral system is broken. The right to free speech has been so bastardized that wall to wall opinions are characterized as news.

The people of the US are been screwed by a system that is in no way shape or form set up to provide for them.

I may disagree with many of the posters here but their right to an opinion is absolute. Sadly the right to provide misinformation and to solicit their opinion against their best interest is being well catered to. The myth of the American dream which is now out of the reach of 99.99% of the population is being used to drive votes. What do you mean health care and education, if you follow your dream and become a billionaire, you wouldn't want to pay tax would you? Hell no I wouldn't. Well then vote like you were a billionaire!
Women's rights? Education? Billionaires don't care about that.
Fair and balanced? Course we are, says so in the slogan doesn't it?
Loony left taking our jobs, our money, our way of life. Course they are President said so didn't he? Believe him, he keeps saying it.

Russia should be our friends, they have no interest in screwing with us.
China are taking our jobs, these deals are bad, very bad for the American people I'm going to renegotiate, I do deals.

You know what let's vote for him, he's a successful businessman, what's the worst that could happen, and anyway I hate Hillary.

Paul Ryan "the president is new at this, he's new to government, so he's not steeped in the long-running protocols that's established between DOJ, FBI, and White Houses. He's just new to this."

When we keep presenting opinions on either side as facts, and we demonize other opinions you get a polarized society. Lowest common denominator gets the most votes and everything is presented as being in the interest of the lowest common denominator. which is apparently the coal mining industry in the US, which to be clear employs less people than Arby's and according to the CEO of the biggest coal company in the nation said Trump can't bring those jobs back.

Stew and Fox, I disagree with you entirely. But I don't see an option in the current political system in the US that provides something for your well being in a manner that makes you happy.  So I'm stuck with your rants and I'm sure I will snap back at a few of them.

In the meantime to all with an interest in US politics. Read, educate yourselves, look at US history and look at economic distribution by area and industry. Look at migration patterns, aging population demographics and youth demographics. Look to the future and how you'll deal with it, because now is already the past.

And to prove that economists occasionally get stuff right, Mr Keynes once said, "in the long run we are all dead" so there's that to look forward to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 09, 2017, 05:18:26 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 09, 2017, 05:07:59 PM
Impeachment requires majority vote, not possible.

My post was presenting a possible scenario that would produce the majority vote.

I agree 100% with the rest of your post. Actually I agree 942% and let no elitist expert try to tell me that's impossible. It's a private fact of my own.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 09, 2017, 05:27:18 PM
Well said boy from orchard and strawberry land, your Sandhill education serves you well.
I would not be as generous as you with my attribution of blame for dissemination of misinformation. The right have managed to use false equivalence to pull the "truth" right of Attila the Hun.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 06:36:10 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 09, 2017, 05:07:59 PM
Impeachment requires majority vote, not possible.

The president is a liar says the newly sacked director of the FBI
Russia did interfere in the election
Special investigator has all the evidence, his call.
Dodd Frank shut down against the banks advice and No-one noticed​

somehow this is normal. Four legs good two legs bad.

The US tax and electoral system is broken. The right to free speech has been so bastardized that wall to wall opinions are characterized as news.

The people of the US are been screwed by a system that is in no way shape or form set up to provide for them.

I may disagree with many of the posters here but their right to an opinion is absolute. Sadly the right to provide misinformation and to solicit their opinion against their best interest is being well catered to. The myth of the American dream which is now out of the reach of 99.99% of the population is being used to drive votes. What do you mean health care and education, if you follow your dream and become a billionaire, you wouldn't want to pay tax would you? Hell no I wouldn't. Well then vote like you were a billionaire!
Women's rights? Education? Billionaires don't care about that.
Fair and balanced? Course we are, says so in the slogan doesn't it?
Loony left taking our jobs, our money, our way of life. Course they are President said so didn't he? Believe him, he keeps saying it.

Russia should be our friends, they have no interest in screwing with us.
China are taking our jobs, these deals are bad, very bad for the American people I'm going to renegotiate, I do deals.

You know what let's vote for him, he's a successful businessman, what's the worst that could happen, and anyway I hate Hillary.

Paul Ryan "the president is new at this, he's new to government, so he's not steeped in the long-running protocols that's established between DOJ, FBI, and White Houses. He's just new to this."

When we keep presenting opinions on either side as facts, and we demonize other opinions you get a polarized society. Lowest common denominator gets the most votes and everything is presented as being in the interest of the lowest common denominator. which is apparently the coal mining industry in the US, which to be clear employs less people than Arby's and according to the CEO of the biggest coal company in the nation said Trump can't bring those jobs back.

Stew and Fox, I disagree with you entirely. But I don't see an option in the current political system in the US that provides something for your well being in a manner that makes you happy.  So I'm stuck with your rants and I'm sure I will snap back at a few of them.

In the meantime to all with an interest in US politics. Read, educate yourselves, look at US history and look at economic distribution by area and industry. Look at migration patterns, aging population demographics and youth demographics. Look to the future and how you'll deal with it, because now is already the past.

And to prove that economists occasionally get stuff right, Mr Keynes once said, "in the long run we are all dead" so there's that to look forward to.
Impeachment may be possible in 2018 when the GOP loses the midterms. The GOP will be loyal for as long as he bring in the votes.
Also one of the Dem Senators was on Morning Joe Yesterday. They have done nothing since the inauguration. Because Trump has done nothing. There isn't going to be an infrastructure bill.
He is useless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2017, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 09, 2017, 04:34:35 PM
Quote from: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:18:54 AM

Listen kid, the left own the media in the states, they own the Universities are they are all as corrupt as f**k! I love it that the democrats hung Comey out to dry and then, when he started to turn on Trump they fell silent and supported him, now, a few hours after his testimony they have egg plastered all over their faces and Trump is more secure than ever, long live this version of the democrats, they are absolutely useless, toothless and and completely unfit to govern, everything they touch turns to shit.  ;D

I'm loving the fact that CNN & Co are being shown up for the liars they are and purveyors of fake news.
You have Warren, Al Green, Waters & co with steam coming out of their ears as they thought they might have a shot at impeachment.

Where is Eamon these days? I've a question to ask him :D

and how sad is it that you have all these liberals lining up to get in to watch the hearing. It's not a U2 concert. Some waiting from 4am to get in. Then you have bars opening up to show live coverage. insane.

Long live President Trump.

What "fake news", specifically?

And what exactly is it that Trump has and will do that you would like him around for a long time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 09, 2017, 11:24:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2017, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 09, 2017, 04:34:35 PM
Quote from: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:18:54 AM

Listen kid, the left own the media in the states, they own the Universities are they are all as corrupt as f**k! I love it that the democrats hung Comey out to dry and then, when he started to turn on Trump they fell silent and supported him, now, a few hours after his testimony they have egg plastered all over their faces and Trump is more secure than ever, long live this version of the democrats, they are absolutely useless, toothless and and completely unfit to govern, everything they touch turns to shit.  ;D

I'm loving the fact that CNN & Co are being shown up for the liars they are and purveyors of fake news.
You have Warren, Al Green, Waters & co with steam coming out of their ears as they thought they might have a shot at impeachment.

Where is Eamon these days? I've a question to ask him :D

and how sad is it that you have all these liberals lining up to get in to watch the hearing. It's not a U2 concert. Some waiting from 4am to get in. Then you have bars opening up to show live coverage. insane.

Long live President Trump.

What "fake news", specifically?

And what exactly is it that Trump has and will do that you would like him around for a long time?

CNN Making stuff up and posting it as fact for starters. The "anonymous sources" again.

Comey expected to refute Trump
By Gloria Borger, Jake Tapper, Brian Rokus and Eric Lichtblau

"Trump has made a blanket claim that Comey told him multiple times that he was not under investigation."

"But one source said Comey is expected to explain to senators that those were much more nuanced conversations from which Trump concluded that he was not under investigation.  Another source hinted that the President may have misunderstood the exact meaning of Comey's words, especially regarding the FBI's ongoing counterintelligence investigation"


They lie and democrats swallow it whole.


As for President Trump - what's there not to love? He wants to keep america safe and stop the politically correct bullshit that has infested the country. If only he was allowed to do his job unhindered.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 09, 2017, 11:40:48 PM
CNN Making stuff up and posting it as fact for starters. The "anonymous sources" again.

Comey expected to refute Trump
By Gloria Borger, Jake Tapper, Brian Rokus and Eric Lichtblau

"Trump has made a blanket claim that Comey told him multiple times that he was not under investigation."

"But one source said Comey is expected to explain to senators that those were much more nuanced conversations from which Trump concluded that he was not under investigation.  Another source hinted that the President may have misunderstood the exact meaning of Comey's words, especially regarding the FBI's ongoing counterintelligence investigation"


They lie and democrats swallow it whole.

[/quote]

Can you help me; I'm having a hard time picking out the lies in that quote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 10, 2017, 02:31:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2017, 03:45:42 PM
Quote from: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:18:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2017, 05:48:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 07, 2017, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 07, 2017, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
"Obama is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent gentleman who tried his best in the face of obdurate Republican obstructionism. He pulled the economy out of the ditch, did a pretty good job at pushing the Healthcare system in the right direction and was the model for the highest standards of family values.

For lots of Folks though...he does have one big drawback."

If you mean his furthering of certain agendas you'd be correct. 8 years of dismantling america. Great Job.
That man wouldn't know decent if it kicked him repeatedly in the nuts.

Now we know you're on the serious wind up!

No wind up. Obama is a very decent man.
Just because the right keep saying something, does not mean it is true.
All the economic stats and indicators say he did a great job despite the best efforts of Mitch McTurtle & Co
You lot are so transparent.. you keep on using plays from Goebbels play book. Lie repeat, lie repeat and on and you think that will make it true.

Now can you please explain how Obama dismantled America?

Substitute decent for smarmy piece of work. The whole Moneygall episode still churns my stomach and cheerleading eejits bought it hook line and sinker. The cringe factor was 100%

Repeating the "Change" mantra doesn't make it true. Poor brainwashed liberals.

The current polarisation of the USA is evidence enough of obama's policies, enough to ensure that someone who opposed his ideals was elected as president, albeit 4 (or 8!!) years too late. His pandering to certain groups showed where his true "change" aims lay.

Right, because the US was such a united, happy place before 2008.

There was no Rush Limbaugh, no Fox News, no Tom DeLay or Newt Gingrich, no Clinton witch hunts, no congressional staffers intimidating election staff in Florida, no Swiftboat campaign, no ludicrous demonization and intimidation of anyone who questioned GW Bush and the move to Iraq war (Dixie Chicks FFS!), no GOP anti-gay campaigns etc. etc.

Maybe you were born yesterday, but the rest of us weren't.

Listen kid, the left own the media in the states, they own the Universities are they are all as corrupt as f**k! I love it that the democrats hung Comey out to dry and then, when he started to turn on Trump they fell silent and supported him, now, a few hours after his testimony they have egg plastered all over their faces and Trump is more secure than ever, long live this version of the democrats, they are absolutely useless, toothless and and completely unfit to govern, everything they touch turns to shit.  ;D

Spare us the media shite - you know f**king well that's a load of bollocks.

And Trump is by no means out of the woods. Coney punted to Mueller on the obstruction of justice, but left no doubt that he was fired due to his refusal to back off on the investigation. He also unequivocally called the president of the US a bald-faced liar.

Trump was never going to be impeached as that is a political issue and he has the congress, but he is continually being exposed for the narcissistic, corrupt, sorry excuse for a human being that he is.
He may not be impeached, but that stuff takes a serious toll on the implementation of any political agenda, as the useless **** is finding out.

Bask in that!

You are absolutely deluded, all is lost for you if you think the media does not for the most part, have an extreme bias toward the left!

I have no time for Trump you tube, its just I have less time for the cowardly left and all they dont stand for, they make me sick and it boils down to this, I would MUCH prefer Trump over any Liberal in office anywhere in the States bar Saunders and even he, as decent as he is, is a moral coward, he let Clinton and her campaign walk all over him when they cheated him out of the Presidency, he would have destroyed Trump, in short, you morons did this to yourselves by propping up a hateful arrogant bitch to run against a hateful, arrogant p***k! Ah the irony!  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2017, 05:01:29 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 09, 2017, 11:24:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2017, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 09, 2017, 04:34:35 PM
Quote from: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:18:54 AM

Listen kid, the left own the media in the states, they own the Universities are they are all as corrupt as f**k! I love it that the democrats hung Comey out to dry and then, when he started to turn on Trump they fell silent and supported him, now, a few hours after his testimony they have egg plastered all over their faces and Trump is more secure than ever, long live this version of the democrats, they are absolutely useless, toothless and and completely unfit to govern, everything they touch turns to shit.  ;D

I'm loving the fact that CNN & Co are being shown up for the liars they are and purveyors of fake news.
You have Warren, Al Green, Waters & co with steam coming out of their ears as they thought they might have a shot at impeachment.

Where is Eamon these days? I've a question to ask him :D

and how sad is it that you have all these liberals lining up to get in to watch the hearing. It's not a U2 concert. Some waiting from 4am to get in. Then you have bars opening up to show live coverage. insane.

Long live President Trump.

What "fake news", specifically?

And what exactly is it that Trump has and will do that you would like him around for a long time?

CNN Making stuff up and posting it as fact for starters. The "anonymous sources" again.

Comey expected to refute Trump
By Gloria Borger, Jake Tapper, Brian Rokus and Eric Lichtblau

"Trump has made a blanket claim that Comey told him multiple times that he was not under investigation."

"But one source said Comey is expected to explain to senators that those were much more nuanced conversations from which Trump concluded that he was not under investigation.  Another source hinted that the President may have misunderstood the exact meaning of Comey's words, especially regarding the FBI's ongoing counterintelligence investigation"


They lie and democrats swallow it whole.


As for President Trump - what's there not to love? He wants to keep america safe and stop the politically correct bullshit that has infested the country. If only he was allowed to do his job unhindered.

What evidence do you have that CNN "made it up"?

Or that "anonymous sources" are in any way unusual or a recent phenomenon?

Given your insistence on honesty in the media, one wonders what your opinion of Fox News is. Or Breitbart, for example?

Who is "hindering" Trump?

Where are the detailed policy plans? For example, he released a hyped-up proposal to privatize the air traffic control system last week, giving out souvenir pens and the lot, which was met with a "that's nice, but where the f**k are some details, ANY details?" response by the industry. It was the same with the tax "plan". And plenty of other stuff which has been mostly smoke and executive orders to take a look at some issue or other.

He's constantly moaning about Democratic intransigence when it comes to appointments when he has yet to even PROPOSE people to fill most of these positions. His real problem is finding Republicans who are willing to risk their careers working for a slow-motion car crash.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2017, 05:30:12 AM
Quote from: stew on June 10, 2017, 02:31:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2017, 03:45:42 PM


Spare us the media shite - you know f**king well that's a load of bollocks.

And Trump is by no means out of the woods. Coney punted to Mueller on the obstruction of justice, but left no doubt that he was fired due to his refusal to back off on the investigation. He also unequivocally called the president of the US a bald-faced liar.

Trump was never going to be impeached as that is a political issue and he has the congress, but he is continually being exposed for the narcissistic, corrupt, sorry excuse for a human being that he is.
He may not be impeached, but that stuff takes a serious toll on the implementation of any political agenda, as the useless **** is finding out.

Bask in that!

You are absolutely deluded, all is lost for you if you think the media does not for the most part, have an extreme bias toward the left!

I have no time for Trump you tube, its just I have less time for the cowardly left and all they dont stand for, they make me sick and it boils down to this, I would MUCH prefer Trump over any Liberal in office anywhere in the States bar Saunders and even he, as decent as he is, is a moral coward, he let Clinton and her campaign walk all over him when they cheated him out of the Presidency, he would have destroyed Trump, in short, you morons did this to yourselves by propping up a hateful arrogant bitch to run against a hateful, arrogant p***k! Ah the irony!  :)

Go ahead stew. Show us how the media, for the most part, has an extreme bias towards the left.

What DON'T the cowardly left stand for stew that renders Trump such a preferable option to any liberal in office anywhere in the states?

And I'm still waiting to see how the DNC put a gun to the heads of the people who gave Clinton a four million vote margin over Sanders.

Or how he, having been hammered in the south by Hillary, would have beaten Trump, especially after the right wing media went to town on him with red scare redux?

There were TWO people in with a shout of the Democratic nomination. Its not like Bernie didn't get a lot of hype or didn't get his message out there or that people didn't know what he was about. He wasn't Jim Webb or Martin O'Malley. And its not like Hillary's weaknesses were NOT getting huge media coverage all through the primaries. Did Bernie himself not say "Enough with the damn emails!" during a televised debate?

The party national committees ALWAYS have preferred candidates. They're staffed by politicians and political operatives whose job it is to give their party the best chance of winning elections. Politics is a cut-throat business, with favours and dirt part of the game. You think the RNC wanted Trump? You think two-year US Senator Obama started out as the preferred candidate for the DNC in 2008, when it was assumed before Iowa that the nomination was Hillary's to lose?

The only difference this time is that emails emerged documenting the manoeuvering and biases.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 10, 2017, 05:43:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2017, 05:30:12 AM
Quote from: stew on June 10, 2017, 02:31:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2017, 03:45:42 PM


Spare us the media shite - you know f**king well that's a load of bollocks.

And Trump is by no means out of the woods. Coney punted to Mueller on the obstruction of justice, but left no doubt that he was fired due to his refusal to back off on the investigation. He also unequivocally called the president of the US a bald-faced liar.

Trump was never going to be impeached as that is a political issue and he has the congress, but he is continually being exposed for the narcissistic, corrupt, sorry excuse for a human being that he is.
He may not be impeached, but that stuff takes a serious toll on the implementation of any political agenda, as the useless **** is finding out.

Bask in that!

You are absolutely deluded, all is lost for you if you think the media does not for the most part, have an extreme bias toward the left!

I have no time for Trump you tube, its just I have less time for the cowardly left and all they dont stand for, they make me sick and it boils down to this, I would MUCH prefer Trump over any Liberal in office anywhere in the States bar Saunders and even he, as decent as he is, is a moral coward, he let Clinton and her campaign walk all over him when they cheated him out of the Presidency, he would have destroyed Trump, in short, you morons did this to yourselves by propping up a hateful arrogant bitch to run against a hateful, arrogant p***k! Ah the irony!  :)

Go ahead stew. Show us how the media, for the most part, has an extreme bias towards the left.

What DON'T the cowardly left stand for stew that renders Trump such a preferable option to any liberal in office anywhere in the states?

And I'm still waiting to see how the DNC put a gun to the heads of the people who gave Clinton a four million vote margin over Sanders.

Or how he, having been hammered in the south by Hillary, would have beaten Trump, especially after the right wing media went to town on him with red scare redux?

There were TWO people in with a shout of the Democratic nomination. Its not like Bernie didn't get a lot of hype or didn't get his message out there or that people didn't know what he was about. He wasn't Jim Webb or Martin O'Malley. And its not like Hillary's weaknesses were NOT getting huge media coverage all through the primaries. Did Bernie himself not say "Enough with the damn emails!" during a televised debate?

The party national committees ALWAYS have preferred candidates. They're staffed by politicians and political operatives whose job it is to give their party the best chance of winning elections. Politics is a cut-throat business, with favours and dirt part of the game. You think the RNC wanted Trump? You think two-year US Senator Obama started out as the preferred candidate for the DNC in 2008, when it was assumed before Iowa that the nomination was Hillary's to lose?

The only difference this time is that emails emerged documenting the manoeuvering and biases.

J70, are you expecting a rational response......?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 10, 2017, 08:42:53 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 09, 2017, 05:07:59 PM
Impeachment requires majority vote, not possible.

The president is a liar says the newly sacked director of the FBI
Russia did interfere in the election
Special investigator has all the evidence, his call.
Dodd Frank shut down against the banks advice and No-one noticed​

somehow this is normal. Four legs good two legs bad.

The US tax and electoral system is broken. The right to free speech has been so bastardized that wall to wall opinions are characterized as news.

The people of the US are been screwed by a system that is in no way shape or form set up to provide for them.

I may disagree with many of the posters here but their right to an opinion is absolute. Sadly the right to provide misinformation and to solicit their opinion against their best interest is being well catered to. The myth of the American dream which is now out of the reach of 99.99% of the population is being used to drive votes. What do you mean health care and education, if you follow your dream and become a billionaire, you wouldn't want to pay tax would you? Hell no I wouldn't. Well then vote like you were a billionaire!
Women's rights? Education? Billionaires don't care about that.
Fair and balanced? Course we are, says so in the slogan doesn't it?
Loony left taking our jobs, our money, our way of life. Course they are President said so didn't he? Believe him, he keeps saying it.

Russia should be our friends, they have no interest in screwing with us.
China are taking our jobs, these deals are bad, very bad for the American people I'm going to renegotiate, I do deals.

You know what let's vote for him, he's a successful businessman, what's the worst that could happen, and anyway I hate Hillary.

Paul Ryan "the president is new at this, he's new to government, so he's not steeped in the long-running protocols that's established between DOJ, FBI, and White Houses. He's just new to this."

When we keep presenting opinions on either side as facts, and we demonize other opinions you get a polarized society. Lowest common denominator gets the most votes and everything is presented as being in the interest of the lowest common denominator. which is apparently the coal mining industry in the US, which to be clear employs less people than Arby's and according to the CEO of the biggest coal company in the nation said Trump can't bring those jobs back.

Stew and Fox, I disagree with you entirely. But I don't see an option in the current political system in the US that provides something for your well being in a manner that makes you happy.  So I'm stuck with your rants and I'm sure I will snap back at a few of them.

In the meantime to all with an interest in US politics. Read, educate yourselves, look at US history and look at economic distribution by area and industry. Look at migration patterns, aging population demographics and youth demographics. Look to the future and how you'll deal with it, because now is already the past.

And to prove that economists occasionally get stuff right, Mr Keynes once said, "in the long run we are all dead" so there's that to look forward to.

Hehanboy you have already snapped and i have no peoblem with thst, you went to the states illegally and the right wantex you the f**k out after your visa expired, the left embraced your vote, your future vote that is and you bit hook line and sinker.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 10, 2017, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2017, 05:30:12 AM
Quote from: stew on June 10, 2017, 02:31:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2017, 03:45:42 PM


Spare us the media shite - you know f**king well that's a load of bollocks.

And Trump is by no means out of the woods. Coney punted to Mueller on the obstruction of justice, but left no doubt that he was fired due to his refusal to back off on the investigation. He also unequivocally called the president of the US a bald-faced liar.

Trump was never going to be impeached as that is a political issue and he has the congress, but he is continually being exposed for the narcissistic, corrupt, sorry excuse for a human being that he is.
He may not be impeached, but that stuff takes a serious toll on the implementation of any political agenda, as the useless **** is finding out.

Bask in that!

You are absolutely deluded, all is lost for you if you think the media does not for the most part, have an extreme bias toward the left!

I have no time for Trump you tube, its just I have less time for the cowardly left and all they dont stand for, they make me sick and it boils down to this, I would MUCH prefer Trump over any Liberal in office anywhere in the States bar Saunders and even he, as decent as he is, is a moral coward, he let Clinton and her campaign walk all over him when they cheated him out of the Presidency, he would have destroyed Trump, in short, you morons did this to yourselves by propping up a hateful arrogant bitch to run against a hateful, arrogant p***k! Ah the irony!  :)

Go ahead stew. Show us how the media, for the most part, has an extreme bias towards the left.

Your new hero Comey called it true, he called out the New York Times under oath for example for fake news, your cowardly press cite anonymous sources all the time to invent non stories.

What DON'T the cowardly left stand for stew that renders Trump such a preferable option to any liberal in office anywhere in the states?

They dont stand for decency, they dont condemn hate groups like BLM on their racist bullshit when they want to ban all non black people from their safe space rallys. They dont have the backs of the police, they dont want the rule of law upheld if it does not suit their political agenda, for example their stance on illegal immigration.
F bombs into their sphiels, wow, that adds street cred with the people, that will get them the votes they need to win in 2020.

And I'm still waiting to see how the DNC put a gun to the heads of the people who gave Clinton a four million vote margin over Sanders.

Did the cheating scandal not happen then? Did I dream that all up??? See this is the sort of shit that wants me to shake liberals, you can rationalize anything by pointing to meaningless and often inaccurate data instead of owning a fact that hurts your party, it is sickening and cowardly and Saunders got fucked, he was too much of a yes man to raise hell about it and his supporters were ready to go all out on the issue.

Or how he, having been hammered in the south by Hillary, would have beaten Trump, especially after the right wing media went to town on him with red scare redux?

There were TWO people in with a shout of the Democratic nomination. Its not like Bernie didn't get a lot of hype or didn't get his message out there or that people didn't know what he was about. He wasn't Jim Webb or Martin O'Malley. And its not like Hillary's weaknesses were NOT getting huge media coverage all through the primaries. Did Bernie himself not say "Enough with the damn emails!" during a televised debate?

DID THE DEMOCRATS CHEAT THE SAUNDERS CAMPAIGN OR NOT? DID ANYONE GET FIRED AS A RESULT OF THIS SKULLDUGGERY?

The party national committees ALWAYS have preferred candidates. They're staffed by politicians and political operatives whose job it is to give their party the best chance of winning elections. Politics is a cut-throat business, with favours and dirt part of the game. You think the RNC wanted Trump? You think two-year US Senator Obama started out as the preferred candidate for the DNC in 2008, when it was assumed before Iowa that the nomination was Hillary's to lose?

You are a typical liberal, your stance on everything is fluid and you can justify anything because you stand for little to nothing!

The only difference this time is that emails emerged documenting the manoeuvering and biases.


Documenting the cheating and destruction of the democratic process you mean. f**k I commend you flakes on your use of verbiage, you lot have the ability to talk so softly on issues that hurt your party and talk so tough on the republicans and even one of your own in Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 10, 2017, 09:42:09 PM
Quote from: stew on June 10, 2017, 08:42:53 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 09, 2017, 05:07:59 PM
Impeachment requires majority vote, not possible.

The president is a liar says the newly sacked director of the FBI
Russia did interfere in the election
Special investigator has all the evidence, his call.
Dodd Frank shut down against the banks advice and No-one noticed​

somehow this is normal. Four legs good two legs bad.

The US tax and electoral system is broken. The right to free speech has been so bastardized that wall to wall opinions are characterized as news.

The people of the US are been screwed by a system that is in no way shape or form set up to provide for them.

I may disagree with many of the posters here but their right to an opinion is absolute. Sadly the right to provide misinformation and to solicit their opinion against their best interest is being well catered to. The myth of the American dream which is now out of the reach of 99.99% of the population is being used to drive votes. What do you mean health care and education, if you follow your dream and become a billionaire, you wouldn't want to pay tax would you? Hell no I wouldn't. Well then vote like you were a billionaire!
Women's rights? Education? Billionaires don't care about that.
Fair and balanced? Course we are, says so in the slogan doesn't it?
Loony left taking our jobs, our money, our way of life. Course they are President said so didn't he? Believe him, he keeps saying it.

Russia should be our friends, they have no interest in screwing with us.
China are taking our jobs, these deals are bad, very bad for the American people I'm going to renegotiate, I do deals.

You know what let's vote for him, he's a successful businessman, what's the worst that could happen, and anyway I hate Hillary.

Paul Ryan "the president is new at this, he's new to government, so he's not steeped in the long-running protocols that's established between DOJ, FBI, and White Houses. He's just new to this."

When we keep presenting opinions on either side as facts, and we demonize other opinions you get a polarized society. Lowest common denominator gets the most votes and everything is presented as being in the interest of the lowest common denominator. which is apparently the coal mining industry in the US, which to be clear employs less people than Arby's and according to the CEO of the biggest coal company in the nation said Trump can't bring those jobs back.

Stew and Fox, I disagree with you entirely. But I don't see an option in the current political system in the US that provides something for your well being in a manner that makes you happy.  So I'm stuck with your rants and I'm sure I will snap back at a few of them.

In the meantime to all with an interest in US politics. Read, educate yourselves, look at US history and look at economic distribution by area and industry. Look at migration patterns, aging population demographics and youth demographics. Look to the future and how you'll deal with it, because now is already the past.

And to prove that economists occasionally get stuff right, Mr Keynes once said, "in the long run we are all dead" so there's that to look forward to.

Hehanboy you have already snapped and i have no peoblem with thst, you went to the states illegally and the right wantex you the f**k out after your visa expired, the left embraced your vote, your future vote that is and you bit hook line and sinker.

typical democrats trying to get illegal voters any way they can and allowing illegals to break the law. should all be deported, even retrospectively.

what about all the illegal voters in virgina this election? surely that's bigger news than Russia in actual election interference

Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia,Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia,Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia,Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia,Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia,Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia,

that's all you hear anymore and not one vote was cast by them. ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 11, 2017, 03:40:14 AM
Not that it has anything to do with you argument, but I am not nor I have I ever been living or working illegally in the US.

And yeah, Russia.

It's not the zero votes they cast that you want to be worried about, it's their impact on the make up and operation of the united states government.

Any other craic?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 11, 2017, 10:23:10 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 11, 2017, 03:40:14 AM
Not that it has anything to do with you argument, but I am not nor I have I ever been living or working illegally in the US.

And yeah, Russia.

It's not the zero votes they cast that you want to be worried about, it's their impact on the make up and operation of the united states government.

Any other craic?
None other than an apology, I could have sworn I read you lived in new york about five years ago or more. Sorry hegan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 11, 2017, 02:10:43 PM
Appreciate that note Stew.
I have been I living in the US more than 15 years, but never illegally. Work visas then permanent resident.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 11, 2017, 03:32:35 PM
G am sorta glad Fox Commander and Stew are living in America an not here, the amount of biased crap they come out with in trying to defend a clown as as a president is laughable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on June 11, 2017, 03:47:40 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 11, 2017, 03:32:35 PM
G am sorta glad Fox Commander and Stew are living in America an not here, the amount of biased crap they come out with in trying to defend a clown as as a president is laughable

But he still is POTUS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 11, 2017, 04:47:16 PM
stew, learn to use the quote function ffs! :)

Your new hero Comey called it true, he called out the New York Times under oath for example for fake news, your cowardly press cite anonymous sources all the time to invent non stories.

Where have I expressed the opinion that Comey is a hero?

And how does ONE story prove that there is a media bias? Do right wing news NEVER get stories wrong?? Have you been watching Fox News over the past month... or EVER?

And honestly, you're a dunce if you don't realize the importance of anonymous sources to the entire media industry or their role in breaking and exposing scandals over the decades.

And sorry stew, but your use of inflammatory language like "cowardly" and "invent" do nothing to bolster your point.



They dont stand for decency, they dont condemn hate groups like BLM on their racist bullshit when they want to ban all non black people from their safe space rallys. They dont have the backs of the police, they dont want the rule of law upheld if it does not suit their political agenda, for example their stance on illegal immigration.
F bombs into their sphiels, wow, that adds street cred with the people, that will get them the votes they need to win in 2020.

You're always going on about BLM being a "hate group" due to a couple of isolated incidents, which you've repeatedly failed to show were representative of the group as a whole and any different to any large scale movement where bad apples can locally and temporarily cause trouble. You posted the New Black Panthers nonsense the other day as an example of the corruption and failings of Barack Obama the other day FFS, as if two individuals at a single precinct in Philadelphia were somehow having their strings pulled from the Oval Office.

What evidence is there that the Dems are anti-police? Are supporting blacks and being concerned about their relatively greater suffering at the hands of the justice system and supporting police mutually exclusive?

On illegal immigration, just the other day you were using Obama's record on deportation as... well actually I don't really know what your point was. But yes, the left is, in general, more inclined to turn a blind eye to certain things when it comes to illegal immigration, both for pragmatic and humanitarian reasons, both very defensible and moral (they of course have allies on the right in this regard who like the availability of cheap labour for certain work).
F-bombs??? Seriously? And you're throwing the ludicrous "snowflake" label around!




Did the cheating scandal not happen then? Did I dream that all up??? See this is the sort of shit that wants me to shake liberals, you can rationalize anything by pointing to meaningless and often inaccurate data instead of owning a fact that hurts your party, it is sickening and cowardly and Saunders got fucked, he was too much of a yes man to raise hell about it and his supporters were ready to go all out on the issue.

But how did he "get fucked"??
What effect did the biases have?

DID THE DEMOCRATS CHEAT THE SAUNDERS CAMPAIGN OR NOT? DID ANYONE GET FIRED AS A RESULT OF THIS SKULLDUGGERY?

The DNC chairwoman?



You are a typical liberal, your stance on everything is fluid and you can justify anything because you stand for little to nothing!

Of course you have something to back this up? (I'll not hold my breath).


Documenting the cheating and destruction of the democratic process you mean.

Er yes, that is pretty much what I said. It was documented this time out.

f**k I commend you flakes on your use of verbiage, you lot have the ability to talk so softly on issues that hurt your party and talk so tough on the republicans and even one of your own in Trump.

As usual stew, you show your intellectual dishonesty and bankruptcy when it comes to Trump.

I'm glad you're impressed by my prose skills.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 11, 2017, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 11, 2017, 04:47:16 PM
stew, learn to use the quote function ffs! :)

Your new hero Comey called it true, he called out the New York Times under oath for example for fake news, your cowardly press cite anonymous sources all the time to invent non stories.

Where have I expressed the opinion that Comey is a hero?


If he brought Trump down he would be, the lefts rhetoric has softened since he called trump a liar.


And how does ONE story prove that there is a media bias? Do right wing news NEVER get stories wrong?? Have you been watching Fox News over the past month... or EVER?

Fox do get things wrong on occasion, nowhere near as much as CNN and MSNBC etc.
And honestly, you're a dunce if you don't realize the importance of anonymous sources to the entire media industry or their role in breaking and exposing scandals over the decades.

Anonymous sources are being used and abused and lied about in the liberal media, they are out to screw Trump at every turn.

And sorry stew, but your use of inflammatory language like "cowardly" and "invent" do nothing to bolster your point.

Never said it did, I stand by my comments however.


They dont stand for decency, they dont condemn hate groups like BLM on their racist bullshit when they want to ban all non black people from their safe space rallys. They dont have the backs of the police, they dont want the rule of law upheld if it does not suit their political agenda, for example their stance on illegal immigration.
F bombs into their sphiels, wow, that adds street cred with the people, that will get them the votes they need to win in 2020.

You're always going on about BLM being a "hate group" due to a couple of isolated incidents, which you've repeatedly failed to show were representative of the group as a whole and any different to any large scale movement where bad apples can locally and temporarily cause trouble. You posted the New Black Panthers nonsense the other day as an example of the corruption and failings of Barack Obama the other day FFS, as if two individuals at a single precinct in Philadelphia were somehow having their strings pulled from the Oval Office.

The BLM hate group id alive and well and it is more than a few in it, the Milwaukee Sheriff agrees with me and sure he is a big black fellah himself! )
What evidence is there that the Dems are anti-police? Are supporting blacks and being concerned about their relatively greater suffering at the hands of the justice system and supporting police mutually exclusive?

Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon, and not a republican in sight, every **** chanting was a liberal sack of shite!

On illegal immigration, just the other day you were using Obama's record on deportation as... well actually I don't really know what your point was. But yes, the left is, in general, more inclined to turn a blind eye to certain things when it comes to illegal immigration, both for pragmatic and humanitarian reasons, both very defensible and moral (they of course have allies on the right in this regard who like the availability of cheap labour for certain work).

F-bombs??? Seriously? And you're throwing the ludicrous "snowflake" label around!

F Bombs, I mentioned that because you now have senators, liberal senators who seem to think they are cool hip and trendy dropping f bombs at rallies, they are appealing to the low gradeliberal base but it does demean the office these knackers represent.


Did the cheating scandal not happen then? Did I dream that all up??? See this is the sort of shit that wants me to shake liberals, you can rationalize anything by pointing to meaningless and often inaccurate data instead of owning a fact that hurts your party, it is sickening and cowardly and Saunders got fucked, he was too much of a yes man to raise hell about it and his supporters were ready to go all out on the issue.

But how did he "get fucked"??

He was deprived out of a fair, democratic election by the party he was hoping to lead, they cheated him, his base and indeed the country to get Killory elected, thats how!
What effect did the biases have?

DID THE DEMOCRATS CHEAT THE SAUNDERS CAMPAIGN OR NOT? DID ANYONE GET FIRED AS A RESULT OF THIS SKULLDUGGERY?

The DNC chairwoman?

Aye and the party and Clinton and their media.



You are a typical liberal, your stance on everything is fluid and you can justify anything because you stand for little to nothing!

Of course you have something to back this up? (I'll not hold my breath).


Documenting the cheating and destruction of the democratic process you mean.

Er yes, that is pretty much what I said. It was documented this time out.

f**k I commend you flakes on your use of verbiage, you lot have the ability to talk so softly on issues that hurt your party and talk so tough on the republicans and even one of your own in Trump.

As usual stew, you show your intellectual dishonesty and bankruptcy when it comes to Trump.

I'm glad you're impressed by my prose skills.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 11, 2017, 06:59:02 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 11, 2017, 03:32:35 PM
G am sorta glad Fox Commander and Stew are living in America an not here, the amount of biased crap they come out with in trying to defend a clown as as a president is laughable

I dont defend Trump, he is a bollocks, I just despise the left and their witch hunt and I live in Armagh kid, your liberal media is corrupt and biased.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 11, 2017, 07:35:13 PM
If you live in Armagh why u so worried about the in`s and outs of America politics, u one of the defenders of American republican party from what i see of the thread on here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 11, 2017, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 11, 2017, 07:35:13 PM
If you live in Armagh why u so worried about the in`s and outs of America politics, u one of the defenders of American republican party from what i see of the thread on here

P Diddy, I lived in America for 22 years all told, every day a legal tax paying citizen who never took a dime of State moneyfor any reason, I went to the USA a huge fan of FDR and the Democrat party, after living in the states and experiencing the rancid, disgusting politicians of the democrat party my allegiance changed, I am not now nor never have been a republican, I like to see them win because they, at the local level are good, hard working people, my kind of people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 11, 2017, 08:20:45 PM
You still paying tax on the USA stew or did you renounce your citizenship?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2017, 12:18:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 02:02:56 PM
Romney's words:

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That's an entitlement. The government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49... he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5–10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.
Trump targeted a lot of those people, unlke Romney

Romney took 2 talking points that are essentially true and awkwardly mangled them together into a soundbyte that is patently untrue.

Talking point # 1 is that the Democrats have a base of supporters that he has absolutely no hope of ever in a million years convincing of voting for a Republican....eg someone like the Obamaphone lady.  He will NEVER convince them to take personal responsibility and care for their lives. They DO view themselves as victims and that the government has a responsibility to care for them.   

(The Republicans have a similar base, but instead if living in Urban Ghettos they live in the trailer parks of NC, FL and WV. They  fly confederate flags in their yards and have arsenals of weapons at the ready...think scum like the Charleston Church shooter and his family. Im sure Obama didnt spend too much time trying to convert them to Democrats)

Point # 2 is that 45% of people pay no Federal Income Tax.....the 45 % includes the 2 groups I referenced above but it ALSO includes retirees, military families, small farmers and other groups who almost exclusively vote Republican.  These are the hardworking, law abiding,  god fearing folks who (along with plenty of others) make up the backbone of the country.

So "our message of low taxes doesn't connect" with people who pay no Federal Income taxes......it connects with the 5-10% of independent voters in the middle who typically decide the election.

Im sure if Republican operatives sneaked into private Democratic fundraisers and planted hidden recording devices,  youd hear all manner of talk that would cost a candidate dearly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 12, 2017, 01:30:47 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 11, 2017, 08:20:45 PM
You still paying tax on the USA stew or did you renounce your citizenship?

I renounced nothing because I had nothing to renounce, I am Irish not American and never held an American passport, I did however pay over 40 large in taxes just before I left, and that was just to the federales, I paid over ten large to the great state of Wisconsin.

I paid my dues and then some, hope that answers your question hegan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 12, 2017, 01:44:05 AM
http://money.howstuffworks.com/only-53-percent-pay-income-tax.htm (http://money.howstuffworks.com/only-53-percent-pay-income-tax.htm)

As with any statement of this nature, there are some qualifiers and distinctions to be made. First of all, these numbers refer to Federal income taxes, not all income taxes and withholdings. Most workers have money withheld from each paycheck as mandatory contributions to the Social Security and Medicare trust funds. If you're self-employed, you pay 15.3 percent of your gross earnings in so-called payroll taxes. If you're employed by someone else, you pay 7.65 percent and your employer pays the same amount [source: Social Security Administration]. Many workers are also subject to state and local income taxes, property taxes and sales taxes, in addition to Federal income taxes [source: Khimm].
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 12, 2017, 08:30:01 AM
Quote from: stew on June 11, 2017, 08:11:45 PM


P Diddy, I lived in America for 22 years all told, every day a legal tax paying citizen who never took a dime of State moneyfor any reason, I went to the USA a huge fan of FDR and the Democrat party, after living in the states and experiencing the rancid, disgusting politicians of the democrat party my allegiance changed, I am not now nor never have been a republican, I like to see them win because they, at the local level are good, hard working people, my kind of people.

Except that you weren't actually a citizen, meaning you couldn't actually vote.

you could of course have made campaign contributions to have influenced the outcome of the campaign without actually registering one vote.

Sort of like the Russians...

I think I remember you saying in the past that you did have a situation where a dem politician was less than useful to you, and a local Republican stepped in to help. Is that accurate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 12, 2017, 08:58:38 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 12, 2017, 08:30:01 AM
Quote from: stew on June 11, 2017, 08:11:45 PM


P Diddy, I lived in America for 22 years all told, every day a legal tax paying citizen who never took a dime of State money for any reason, I went to the USA a huge fan of FDR and the Democrat party, after living in the states and experiencing the rancid, disgusting politicians of the democrat party my allegiance changed, I am not now nor never have been a republican, I like to see them win because they, at the local level are good, hard working people, my kind of people.

Except that you weren't actually a citizen, meaning you couldn't actually vote.

So what has that got to do with anything?

I could not vote, I did however donate to two different political causes in my time there, I also went door to door for both of them because I believed in them as people, the first one was a republican, the second was a republican turned democrat, she was my golf partner and one of the hardest working and caring people I ever met.

you could of course have made campaign contributions to have influenced the outcome of the campaign without actually registering one vote.
  I did donate money, 6 grand over two election cycles, not much but it was what I could afford.

Sort of like the Russians... Give over!

I think I remember you saying in the past that you did have a situation where a dem politician was less than useful to you, and a local Republican stepped in to help. Is that accurate?

Sort of, it was a situation were I went to the democrat party looking for advice/help on an issue with a business I was buying into, they were rude, dismissive and were bought and paid for by a competitor, I ended up buying that competitor out two years later and sold out six months after that, in my dealings with democrats I have to say they really tried hard to show you how hard they were working for you yet you knew along they were useless and out of their debth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 12, 2017, 12:22:51 PM
To stew:

Fox do get things wrong on occasion, nowhere near as much as CNN and MSNBC etc.

Really?
There is data out there to back up this assertion?

Anonymous sources are being used and abused and lied about in the liberal media, they are out to screw Trump at every turn.

Once again, there is data out there that proves that these sources are spreading mostly false information?


The BLM hate group id alive and well and it is more than a few in it, the Milwaukee Sheriff agrees with me and sure he is a big black fellah himself! )

The Milwaukee sheriff who has seized on a massive self-promotion opportunity as a "safe" black voice for Fox News (a bit like Roy Spencer, the climate denialist scientist, who gets wheeled out on Fox whenever some climate issue has to be "rebutted"). Right.
If their opinion wasn't contrarian and not in line with the anti-intellectual biases of the right, no one would have heard of either.
And you mock liberals for now "lauding" Comey!


Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon, and not a republican in sight, every **** chanting was a liberal sack of shite!

Yet again, you use isolated incidents to tarnish the entire movement AND Democratic Party.
Well let's just extend that logic and lump you and your ilk in with the white supremacist morons who were marching all over the US this weekend. Not too many liberals or Dems amongst that lot.
See how that works?


F Bombs, I mentioned that because you now have senators, liberal senators who seem to think they are cool hip and trendy dropping f bombs at rallies, they are appealing to the low gradeliberal base but it does demean the office these knackers represent.
I'm almost afraid to ask (or more correctly I can probably guess), but is this all based on a single or a couple of incidents? Or is Chuck Schumer and Elizabeth Warren up there on the podium every day effing and blinding?




He was deprived out of a fair, democratic election by the party he was hoping to lead, they cheated him, his base and indeed the country to get Killory elected, thats how!

All very vague stew. How did Bernie's campaign suffer? Would the four million excess votes for Hillary NOT have happened?

Aye and the party and Clinton and their media.
You implied no one lost their job. I corrected you that the DNC CHAIRWOMAN had in fact lost her job. Now you're whining about the media again.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 12, 2017, 01:45:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 12, 2017, 12:18:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2017, 02:02:56 PM
Romney's words:

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That's an entitlement. The government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49... he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5–10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.
Trump targeted a lot of those people, unlke Romney

Romney took 2 talking points that are essentially true and awkwardly mangled them together into a soundbyte that is patently untrue.

Talking point # 1 is that the Democrats have a base of supporters that he has absolutely no hope of ever in a million years convincing of voting for a Republican....eg someone like the Obamaphone lady.  He will NEVER convince them to take personal responsibility and care for their lives. They DO view themselves as victims and that the government has a responsibility to care for them.   

(The Republicans have a similar base, but instead if living in Urban Ghettos they live in the trailer parks of NC, FL and WV. They  fly confederate flags in their yards and have arsenals of weapons at the ready...think scum like the Charleston Church shooter and his family. Im sure Obama didnt spend too much time trying to convert them to Democrats)

Point # 2 is that 45% of people pay no Federal Income Tax.....the 45 % includes the 2 groups I referenced above but it ALSO includes retirees, military families, small farmers and other groups who almost exclusively vote Republican.  These are the hardworking, law abiding,  god fearing folks who (along with plenty of others) make up the backbone of the country.

So "our message of low taxes doesn't connect" with people who pay no Federal Income taxes......it connects with the 5-10% of independent voters in the middle who typically decide the election.

Im sure if Republican operatives sneaked into private Democratic fundraisers and planted hidden recording devices,  youd hear all manner of talk that would cost a candidate dearly

I had to read back to remind myself why we were discussing this!

I agree with part of what you said above i.e. the breakdown of people who pay relatively low or no federal income taxes and their respective ironclad loyalty to their respective parties and the parties respective writing off of those people. I also agree that all kinds of potentially embarrassing, if honest, things are obviously said behind closed doors with "safe" audiences when everyone lets their hair down e.g. Obama's comment on people "clinging" to their guns and religion.

However, what Romney said to that audience was that almost the entirety of those non-federal tax payers were out of his and the GOP's reach, despite the fact that, as you've outlined, many of them are loyal Republican voters. He basically wrote off the entire Democratic base as "moochers" who want to suck on the government teat, when that is not the case at all. Fox News, especially the likes of Bill O'Reilly, doubled down on this after that election, claiming these Democratic voters want "free stuff" from the government.

I'm sure there are Democratic voters who likes living off welfare (I can't imagine why myself, but that's as someone who's never done it), just like I'm sure there are plenty of Republican ones who, ironically, also appreciate government "largesse". But I'm also sure that many of these people work shitty jobs and struggle just to feed and house their families and simply don't earn enough to even reach the federal tax threshold. And I'm also positive that a large proportion of the people who vote Democratic and lean liberal in their politics are highly functioning, productive members of society who pay as much taxes and live responsible lives as any equivalent Republican.

Now maybe Romney didn't mean to conflate the 47% who hold liberal views of what government should be responsible for with the 47% who don't pay federal income tax, but that is what he did and the prevailing GOP message of that election (i.e. job creators, makers/takers etc.) didn't exactly contradict that interpretation.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 12, 2017, 01:49:20 PM
Quote from: stew on June 11, 2017, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 11, 2017, 07:35:13 PM
If you live in Armagh why u so worried about the in`s and outs of America politics, u one of the defenders of American republican party from what i see of the thread on here

P Diddy, I lived in America for 22 years all told, every day a legal tax paying citizen who never took a dime of State moneyfor any reason, I went to the USA a huge fan of FDR and the Democrat party, after living in the states and experiencing the rancid, disgusting politicians of the democrat party my allegiance changed, I am not now nor never have been a republican, I like to see them win because they, at the local level are good, hard working people, my kind of people.

Just a shame about their national-level people and policies then. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ball Hopper on June 12, 2017, 02:59:40 PM
Quote from: stew on June 11, 2017, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 11, 2017, 07:35:13 PM
If you live in Armagh why u so worried about the in`s and outs of America politics, u one of the defenders of American republican party from what i see of the thread on here

P Diddy, I lived in America for 22 years all told, every day a legal tax paying citizen who never took a dime of State moneyfor any reason, I went to the USA a huge fan of FDR and the Democrat party, after living in the states and experiencing the rancid, disgusting politicians of the democrat party my allegiance changed, I am not now nor never have been a republican, I like to see them win because they, at the local level are good, hard working people, my kind of people.

Are you eligible for Social Security from the USA?  Think you must be a citizen to avail of it, hence a lot of older applicants recently. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 13, 2017, 02:13:53 PM
So now he's got his cabinet humiliating themselves in trying to outdo each other in venerating the Dear Leader.

Has the like ever been seen before outside of North Korea or some capos in a movie kissing the Don's ring??

It's like a hostage video!

Kim Jung Trump - yeah, you're up there with FDR all right!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 13, 2017, 02:24:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2017, 02:13:53 PM
So now he's got his cabinet humiliating themselves in trying to outdo each other in venerating the Dear Leader.

Has the like ever been seen before outside of North Korea or some capos in a movie kissing the Don's ring??

It's like a hostage video!

Kim Jung Trump - yeah, you're up there with FDR all right!  ;D

That was grotesque. The comparison with the SOP of totalitarian dictators is unavoidable  and chilling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 13, 2017, 02:57:59 PM
I've posted this before, but he IS William J. Le Petomane!


(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/932/2112/1600/blazingsaddles1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 04:46:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2017, 02:57:59 PM
I've posted this before, but he IS William J. Le Petomane!


(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/932/2112/1600/blazingsaddles1.jpg)

Betsy DeVos looks a little different.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 13, 2017, 05:47:25 PM
Come on fox lad, that display had to have crossed a line, even for you! ;D

Policy is one thing, and the source of legitimate, intelligent disagreement, but Trump is a vainglorious, insecure, narcissistic, self-unaware man-child. You wouldn't get this freakshow with Pence or Romney or Jeb.

It's hurting your political cause.

You can admit it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2017, 05:47:25 PM
Come on fox lad, that display had to have crossed a line, even for you! ;D

Policy is one thing, and the source of legitimate, intelligent disagreement, but Trump is a vainglorious, insecure, narcissistic, self-unaware man-child. You wouldn't get this freakshow with Pence or Romney or Jeb.

It's hurting your political cause.

You can admit it!

Actually no. When you play on a team you support your captain. The cabinet was putting on a unified front backing the president. The media has vilified them since they have taken office so I really can't blame them for showing that they are fully behind him. I think Donald likes to wind up democrats though.

Did you think at any stage the fawning by the media over Obama was in any way sickening ? (I used to puke my ring up at some of his cringeworthy antics). 8 whole years of it as president and still goes on to this day. Mostly faced soft questions at his press conferences. Surely you can see the difference in treatment.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 13, 2017, 06:53:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2017, 05:47:25 PM
Come on fox lad, that display had to have crossed a line, even for you! ;D

Policy is one thing, and the source of legitimate, intelligent disagreement, but Trump is a vainglorious, insecure, narcissistic, self-unaware man-child. You wouldn't get this freakshow with Pence or Romney or Jeb.

It's hurting your political cause.

You can admit it!

Actually no. When you play on a team you support your captain. The cabinet was putting on a unified front backing the president. The media has vilified them since they have taken office so I really can't blame them for showing that they are fully behind him. I think Donald likes to wind up democrats though.

Unified front??

That was a staged, orchestrated photo op which demonstrated Trump's complete tone deafness and lack of self awareness. Cringeworthy doesn't even begin to describe it.

I used to think that maybe Trump was in fact blowing smoke with all this nonsense to try to distract the media and the Democrats, but it just doesn't add up. The thin skin, the overreaction to any perceived slight, no matter how innocuous, the need to be seen on the "offensive" always and without fail... he's an insecure bully who needs complete and utter loyalty from his underlings.

At least stew and whitey have the sense to admit that he is doing their cause little good!

Quote from: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Did you think at any stage the fawning by the media over Obama was in any way sickening ? (I used to puke my ring up at some of his cringeworthy antics). 8 whole years of it as president and still goes on to this day. Mostly faced soft questions at his press conferences. Surely you can see the difference in treatment.

I'm  not going to dispute that many in the media were much better disposed to Obama than to Trump (but the converse is true - look at the ceaseless hyping up of everything from the birth cert nonsense to the New Black Panthers to Jade Helm by the right wing media). But on questioning, what "hard" questions have Trump or his reps faced? You think getting called out on blatant, in your face, remorseless lies is unfair?

And I'd be interested in hearing about these "antics" from Obama that made you want to "puke your ring up". Examples?

Because say what you want about his opinions and policies, he didn't act anywhere even remotely close to the childish buffoon that the current incumbent does.

With Trump, its getting hard to keep up. We've done the hostage video cabinet meeting here today. No one has even mentioned his surrogate putting feelers out in the media about giving Mueller the boot and what the implications of that would be. And just since yesterday!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 07:36:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2017, 06:53:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2017, 05:47:25 PM
Come on fox lad, that display had to have crossed a line, even for you! ;D

Policy is one thing, and the source of legitimate, intelligent disagreement, but Trump is a vainglorious, insecure, narcissistic, self-unaware man-child. You wouldn't get this freakshow with Pence or Romney or Jeb.

It's hurting your political cause.

You can admit it!

Actually no. When you play on a team you support your captain. The cabinet was putting on a unified front backing the president. The media has vilified them since they have taken office so I really can't blame them for showing that they are fully behind him. I think Donald likes to wind up democrats though.

Unified front??

That was a staged, orchestrated photo op which demonstrated Trump's complete tone deafness and lack of self awareness. Cringeworthy doesn't even begin to describe it.

I used to think that maybe Trump was in fact blowing smoke with all this nonsense to try to distract the media and the Democrats, but it just doesn't add up. The thin skin, the overreaction to any perceived slight, no matter how innocuous, the need to be seen on the "offensive" always and without fail... he's an insecure bully who needs complete and utter loyalty from his underlings.

At least stew and whitey have the sense to admit that he is doing their cause little good!

Quote from: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Did you think at any stage the fawning by the media over Obama was in any way sickening ? (I used to puke my ring up at some of his cringeworthy antics). 8 whole years of it as president and still goes on to this day. Mostly faced soft questions at his press conferences. Surely you can see the difference in treatment.

I'm  not going to dispute that many in the media were much better disposed to Obama than to Trump (but the converse is true - look at the ceaseless hyping up of everything from the birth cert nonsense to the New Black Panthers to Jade Helm by the right wing media). But on questioning, what "hard" questions have Trump or his reps faced? You think getting called out on blatant, in your face, remorseless lies is unfair?

And I'd be interested in hearing about these "antics" from Obama that made you want to "puke your ring up". Examples?

Because say what you want about his opinions and policies, he didn't act anywhere even remotely close to the childish buffoon that the current incumbent does.

With Trump, its getting hard to keep up. We've done the hostage video cabinet meeting here today. No one has even mentioned his surrogate putting feelers out in the media about giving Mueller the boot and what the implications of that would be. And just since yesterday!

That's a democrats take on the photo-op. I don't expect you to think anything else.

Barack O'Bama in county offaly, Appearances on the Ellen show, his "mic drop" at last years correspondents dinner etc.
Need I go on? Stomach churning stuff but the liberal media lapped it up and continually broadcast positive items about him. 24 hour brainwashing.

Mueller and Comey are best pals aren't they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 13, 2017, 08:13:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 07:36:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2017, 06:53:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2017, 05:47:25 PM
Come on fox lad, that display had to have crossed a line, even for you! ;D

Policy is one thing, and the source of legitimate, intelligent disagreement, but Trump is a vainglorious, insecure, narcissistic, self-unaware man-child. You wouldn't get this freakshow with Pence or Romney or Jeb.

It's hurting your political cause.

You can admit it!

Actually no. When you play on a team you support your captain. The cabinet was putting on a unified front backing the president. The media has vilified them since they have taken office so I really can't blame them for showing that they are fully behind him. I think Donald likes to wind up democrats though.

Unified front??

That was a staged, orchestrated photo op which demonstrated Trump's complete tone deafness and lack of self awareness. Cringeworthy doesn't even begin to describe it.

I used to think that maybe Trump was in fact blowing smoke with all this nonsense to try to distract the media and the Democrats, but it just doesn't add up. The thin skin, the overreaction to any perceived slight, no matter how innocuous, the need to be seen on the "offensive" always and without fail... he's an insecure bully who needs complete and utter loyalty from his underlings.

At least stew and whitey have the sense to admit that he is doing their cause little good!

Quote from: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Did you think at any stage the fawning by the media over Obama was in any way sickening ? (I used to puke my ring up at some of his cringeworthy antics). 8 whole years of it as president and still goes on to this day. Mostly faced soft questions at his press conferences. Surely you can see the difference in treatment.

I'm  not going to dispute that many in the media were much better disposed to Obama than to Trump (but the converse is true - look at the ceaseless hyping up of everything from the birth cert nonsense to the New Black Panthers to Jade Helm by the right wing media). But on questioning, what "hard" questions have Trump or his reps faced? You think getting called out on blatant, in your face, remorseless lies is unfair?

And I'd be interested in hearing about these "antics" from Obama that made you want to "puke your ring up". Examples?

Because say what you want about his opinions and policies, he didn't act anywhere even remotely close to the childish buffoon that the current incumbent does.

With Trump, its getting hard to keep up. We've done the hostage video cabinet meeting here today. No one has even mentioned his surrogate putting feelers out in the media about giving Mueller the boot and what the implications of that would be. And just since yesterday!

That's a democrats take on the photo-op. I don't expect you to think anything else.

Barack O'Bama in county offaly, Appearances on the Ellen show, his "mic drop" at last years correspondents dinner etc.
Need I go on? Stomach churning stuff but the liberal media lapped it up and continually broadcast positive items about him. 24 hour brainwashing.

Mueller and Comey are best pals aren't they?

Feel free lad to explain why we would think of it as anything other than a toe-curling, completely self-unaware photo-op!

The Obama stuff you mention - the Offaly thing is standard, lip-service stuff, done by Reagan and Kennedy before him (did Bill Clinton do it?). Ellen show - I'm not sure how that is cringeworthy. It was a talk show. Light hearted stuff. They all do them. Humanizes them I guess. Trump even did SNL two years ago, dancing to Drake FFS (I thought he did quite well on it, not taking himself TOO seriously, for once in his life), while he let Jimmy Fallon ruffle his hair. Why anyone would raise an eyebrow to that type of fluff is beyond me.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lPd4rlOlw1lRqU/giphy.gif)

The mic drop was funny. End of.

As for Mueller and Comey, I've no idea if they're pals. I'm sure they at least know each other, given that Mueller had to hand over the reins at the FBI to Comey. Given that Mueller is a Republican and that he was appointed Deputy AG and the FBI Director by George W. Bush, I'm not sure what your implication is. Are you going to justify Trump firing a special prosecutor a few weeks after he was appointed by his own Justice Department (and a few weeks after he sacked the FBI Director who was overseeing the investigation into his campaign and cabinet's links to Russia?). Worked out well for Nixon!


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2017, 08:58:09 PM
Obama did the sort of thing you'd expect a president to do, especially one that's in touch with the people. Fox hates it simply because Obama is black.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on June 13, 2017, 09:27:01 PM
Any danger of any of the republicans taking their tongues out of Sessions arse and asking him a question? Sessions is woefully forgetful and evasive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 09:58:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2017, 08:58:09 PM
Obama did the sort of thing you'd expect a president to do, especially one that's in touch with the people. Fox hates it simply because Obama is black.

The bold Eamon is alive and well (aw dammit) and playing the race card immediately.

don't forget that question is still open for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 14, 2017, 03:58:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 13, 2017, 09:58:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2017, 08:58:09 PM
Obama did the sort of thing you'd expect a president to do, especially one that's in touch with the people. Fox hates it simply because Obama is black.

The bold Eamon is alive and well (aw dammit) and playing the race card immediately.

don't forget that question is still open for you.

Do you ever reflect on how you constantly pass on answering questions but do not feel any shame or embarrassment when you hold others to account. I guess in your world "responsibility" is only for the rest of us. You do really resemble your lord and master...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on June 14, 2017, 01:10:08 PM
Rumours of assissination attempt on a prominent Republican politician (not the President)...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on June 14, 2017, 01:15:07 PM
Congressmen, Aides Reportedly Shot At Early Morning Baseball Practice

Several people were reportedly hit.

By Hayley Miller
Shots were fired on a group of Republican lawmakers in Alexandria, Virginia on Wednesday morning and witnesses say that several aides and members were hit.
Among those who were shot were Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.), according to Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Al.) Brooks used his belt as a tourniquet to stop Scalise's bleeding and told reporters that more than 50 bullets were fired, a local radio station said.
The lawmakers were at baseball practice, as is customary this time of year in preparation for the annual congressional baseball game.
Alexandria Police said that victims were being transported to nearby hospitals
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2017, 01:18:50 PM
Whoa!  :o

Hope they're ok, but 50 shots fired... Don't particularly like Scalise or his politics, but that doesn't mean he deserves to be targeted for any kind of physical abuse or threats, and definitely not like this. Hope the cops get the sc**bag who did this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2017, 06:12:45 PM
Shooter (now dead) apparently a Bernie volunteer who hated Trump and (it would seem) the GOP.

One wonders what he thought this would achieve?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 14, 2017, 07:18:04 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 09, 2017, 05:07:59 PM
Impeachment requires majority vote, not possible.

The president is a liar says the newly sacked director of the FBI
Russia did interfere in the election
Special investigator has all the evidence, his call.
Dodd Frank shut down against the banks advice and No-one noticed​

somehow this is normal. Four legs good two legs bad.

The US tax and electoral system is broken. The right to free speech has been so bastardized that wall to wall opinions are characterized as news.

The people of the US are been screwed by a system that is in no way shape or form set up to provide for them.

I may disagree with many of the posters here but their right to an opinion is absolute. Sadly the right to provide misinformation and to solicit their opinion against their best interest is being well catered to. The myth of the American dream which is now out of the reach of 99.99% of the population is being used to drive votes. What do you mean health care and education, if you follow your dream and become a billionaire, you wouldn't want to pay tax would you? Hell no I wouldn't. Well then vote like you were a billionaire!
Women's rights? Education? Billionaires don't care about that.
Fair and balanced? Course we are, says so in the slogan doesn't it?
Loony left taking our jobs, our money, our way of life. Course they are President said so didn't he? Believe him, he keeps saying it.

Russia should be our friends, they have no interest in screwing with us.
China are taking our jobs, these deals are bad, very bad for the American people I'm going to renegotiate, I do deals.

You know what let's vote for him, he's a successful businessman, what's the worst that could happen, and anyway I hate Hillary.

Paul Ryan "the president is new at this, he's new to government, so he's not steeped in the long-running protocols that's established between DOJ, FBI, and White Houses. He's just new to this."

When we keep presenting opinions on either side as facts, and we demonize other opinions you get a polarized society. Lowest common denominator gets the most votes and everything is presented as being in the interest of the lowest common denominator. which is apparently the coal mining industry in the US, which to be clear employs less people than Arby's and according to the CEO of the biggest coal company in the nation said Trump can't bring those jobs back.

Stew and Fox, I disagree with you entirely. But I don't see an option in the current political system in the US that provides something for your well being in a manner that makes you happy.  So I'm stuck with your rants and I'm sure I will snap back at a few of them.

In the meantime to all with an interest in US politics. Read, educate yourselves, look at US history and look at economic distribution by area and industry. Look at migration patterns, aging population demographics and youth demographics. Look to the future and how you'll deal with it, because now is already the past.

And to prove that economists occasionally get stuff right, Mr Keynes once said, "in the long run we are all dead" so there's that to look forward to.

You have to accept Clinton was unelectabke, she lost to Trump for petes sake, i am not now not wss i evef a Trump supporter, i would have voted for saunders, what you need to get through your head hegan is that the american people are sick of the democrats, there are too many corrupt career politicans who exploit the people nit represent them and the majority of these sewrr rats are liberals.

At every level the democrat party is corrupt, they have iwned Chicago for a century and it is in parts a hell hole and drug haven for dealers and gangsters, that is but one example, there are many more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2017, 07:25:52 PM
1. Clinton got significantly more votes than Trump. You can call her many things, including being a horrible candidate. Unelectable is not a label that fits though, especially as she'd have been more than capable of doing the job as a mainstream Democrat.

2. It's probably redundant or pointless to even ask at this stage, but do you have any real data to back up your claims on the relative incidence of corruption stew?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on June 14, 2017, 09:00:31 PM
Glad that Steve Scalise was not killed, but there is a degree of irony in that he had received an A+ rating from the NRA.

I also believe it's the 195th mass shooting this year.

Scalise also said, "I'm like David Duke without the baggage." Hmm. . . .

He also voted in favor of allowing the mentally ill to buy weapons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 15, 2017, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2017, 08:58:09 PM
Obama did the sort of thing you'd expect a president to do, especially one that's in touch with the people. Fox hates it simply because Obama is black.

If you believe that ladt line you are a complete and utter imbecile!

You want hate? I give you yesterdays attack on a congressman and his colleagues and staffers, thsts pure hate son!

Some liberal cocksuckers have called for the bombing of tge white house and the death of Trump, I have never wished gharm.on anyone but by f**k i am close to it with some of these souless millionaires calling for the white house to be bombed and Trump to be killed etc.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 15, 2017, 09:30:47 AM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/Caml%20Down%20Stew_zpsbwfewsdl.jpg) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/Caml%20Down%20Stew_zpsbwfewsdl.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 15, 2017, 09:39:33 AM
Quote from: Hardy on June 15, 2017, 09:30:47 AM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/Caml%20Down%20Stew_zpsbwfewsdl.jpg) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/Caml%20Down%20Stew_zpsbwfewsdl.jpg.html)

I am calm kid. I just hate uber liberalism and the far right can f**k aff as well.  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 15, 2017, 11:20:44 AM
Quote from: stew on June 15, 2017, 09:39:33 AM

I am calm kid. I just hate uber liberalism and the far right can f**k aff as well.  :)
Well, f**k off, so!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 15, 2017, 11:34:06 AM
Politifact studied the content on Fox. 60% of statements were either mostly or totally false. A further 19% of statements were half false.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2017, 02:16:23 PM
Quote from: stew on June 15, 2017, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2017, 08:58:09 PM
Obama did the sort of thing you'd expect a president to do, especially one that's in touch with the people. Fox hates it simply because Obama is black.

If you believe that ladt line you are a complete and utter imbecile!

You want hate? I give you yesterdays attack on a congressman and his colleagues and staffers, thsts pure hate son!

Some liberal cocksuckers have called for the bombing of tge white house and the death of Trump, I have never wished gharm.on anyone but by f**k i am close to it with some of these souless millionaires calling for the white house to be bombed and Trump to be killed etc.

What was your feeling in Trump saying last summer that if Hillary won and got to appoint judges, that there would be nothing anyone could do... except for the "second amendment people" (closely echoing the moronic Sharon Angle and her "second amendment remedies" comment or umpteen other GOP and NRA people who reckon gun violence rhetoric aimed at liberals is ok).

Is Trump a "cocksucker" for a reckless comment like that which could easily be interpreted as a threat and which attracted the attention of the secret service? Is your anger at the rhetoric aimed at the GOP and their leader too?

I would add that it is pretty much one side which wants anyone and everyone to have unfettered access to high powered weapons such as that used by the attacker yesterday. And it ain't the liberals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2017, 02:18:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2017, 11:34:06 AM
Politifact studied the content on Fox. 60% of statements were either mostly or totally false. A further 19% of statements were half false.

Yeah, but Politifact and Snopes and all the rest... just fake news! ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 15, 2017, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: stew on June 15, 2017, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2017, 08:58:09 PM
Obama did the sort of thing you'd expect a president to do, especially one that's in touch with the people. Fox hates it simply because Obama is black.

If you believe that ladt line you are a complete and utter imbecile!

You want hate? I give you yesterdays attack on a congressman and his colleagues and staffers, thsts pure hate son!

Some liberal cocksuckers have called for the bombing of tge white house and the death of Trump, I have never wished gharm.on anyone but by f**k i am close to it with some of these souless millionaires calling for the white house to be bombed and Trump to be killed etc.

It's all that Eamon has to offer so it's no surprise.

Let's not beat around the bush here - yesterdays events in Virginia is down to the rhetoric being spouted by the democrats and their highly visible advocates.

When you tell the people that 'unrest' and 'resist' are ok ways of attacking the other side some lunatic is going to take that message that little bit further.

Maybe, just maybe, they'll take a look at themselves and the messages they are giving their supporters and quit the constant demonization of those on the right. I've said it before that they are setting a terrible precedent for future presidents.

The mobs have been stoked by Schumer, Pelosi, Warren, Waters, Green etc. on a daily basis. It needs to stop.
Accept that Donald Trump is president. Get over blaming Russia for losing. Exposing the dirty secrets of the Democrat party is not interference. If anything it does the electorate a favour.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 15, 2017, 08:55:51 PM
Who's responsible for the shooting of Gabby Giffords then, Fox? You gonna hold Sarah Palin responsible for that after her "Second Amendment solutions" speech?

Or on the latest shooting how about Rand "Why do we have a Second Amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical!" Paul?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 15, 2017, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 15, 2017, 08:55:51 PM
Who's responsible for the shooting of Gabby Giffords then, Fox? You gonna hold Sarah Palin responsible for that after her "Second Amendment solutions" speech?

Or on the latest shooting how about Rand "Why do we have a Second Amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical!" Paul?

That's a pathetic attempt of whataboutery Eamon. Not in the same league.
It's been a unified message coming from the democrat party for months to resist and cause unrest for the new administration.
I hope they are ashamed of themselves now. Doubt it though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2017, 10:39:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 15, 2017, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: stew on June 15, 2017, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2017, 08:58:09 PM
Obama did the sort of thing you'd expect a president to do, especially one that's in touch with the people. Fox hates it simply because Obama is black.

If you believe that ladt line you are a complete and utter imbecile!

You want hate? I give you yesterdays attack on a congressman and his colleagues and staffers, thsts pure hate son!

Some liberal cocksuckers have called for the bombing of tge white house and the death of Trump, I have never wished gharm.on anyone but by f**k i am close to it with some of these souless millionaires calling for the white house to be bombed and Trump to be killed etc.

It's all that Eamon has to offer so it's no surprise.

Let's not beat around the bush here - yesterdays events in Virginia is down to the rhetoric being spouted by the democrats and their highly visible advocates.

When you tell the people that 'unrest' and 'resist' are ok ways of attacking the other side some lunatic is going to take that message that little bit further.

Maybe, just maybe, they'll take a look at themselves and the messages they are giving their supporters and quit the constant demonization of those on the right. I've said it before that they are setting a terrible precedent for future presidents.

The mobs have been stoked by Schumer, Pelosi, Warren, Waters, Green etc. on a daily basis. It needs to stop.
Accept that Donald Trump is president. Get over blaming Russia for losing. Exposing the dirty secrets of the Democrat party is not interference. If anything it does the electorate a favour.

So the killing and targeting muslims and other foreigners in the US in recent months is down to Trump then.

That's where your logic leads.

And "demonization"??

You're either on the wind-up or incredibly ignorant given the record of the right, including Trump himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 15, 2017, 11:16:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 15, 2017, 10:39:26 PM

So the killing and targeting muslims and other foreigners in the US in recent months is down to Trump then.

That's where your logic leads.

And "demonization"??

You're either on the wind-up or incredibly ignorant given the record of the right, including Trump himself.

J - who's been killing muslims and foreigners in the us in recent months??

Seriously - is this your argument to defend the democrats from their nasty viscous campaign which has lead to an attempted assassination of republican politicians
Kathy Griffin, Snoop Dogg, Madonna advocating the murder of the president. CNN, MSNBC and the likes promoting it

You bucks have really lost the plot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2017, 11:55:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 15, 2017, 11:16:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 15, 2017, 10:39:26 PM

So the killing and targeting muslims and other foreigners in the US in recent months is down to Trump then.

That's where your logic leads.

And "demonization"??

You're either on the wind-up or incredibly ignorant given the record of the right, including Trump himself.

J - who's been killing muslims and foreigners in the us in recent months??

Seriously - is this your argument to defend the democrats from their nasty viscous campaign which has lead to an attempted assassination of republican politicians
Kathy Griffin, Snoop Dogg, Madonna advocating the murder of the president. CNN, MSNBC and the likes promoting it

You bucks have really lost the plot.

You need to pay attention.

Off the top of my head, you had the header who shot the Indian lads in Kansas City, killing one, because he mistook them for muslims, yelling at them to "get out of my country".

You had the headcase in Portland Oregon a couple of weeks back who harrassed and abused a couple of girls due to their muslim appearance and ended up stabbing three men, killing two of them, who came to the girls' aid. Now of course, all the right has to say on this genius was that he had expressed support for Bernie, of course ignoring his involvement in the alt right causes and marches which fit right in with the mentality of contempt for non-whites and muslims.

Here is a NY Times report on FBI figures from last year showing an increase in hate crimes driven by a rise in anti-muslim attacks.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/us/politics/fbi-hate-crimes-muslims.html?_r=0 (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/us/politics/fbi-hate-crimes-muslims.html?_r=0)

And of course, it takes Trump a lot longer to condemn attacks such as the above pair and the one in Quebec earlier in the year than it does to react to any terrorist act carried out BY muslims.

And since when are Kathy Griffin and Madonna and Snoop Dog the Democratic Party?

Do you want me to compile a list of violent threats by actual GOP politicians? I already referred in an earlier post today to Trump talking about the second amendment people jumping into action if Hillary were to win and start appointing judges or Sharon Angle calling for "second amendment remedies" to liberal politicians. Its not too many years since Ted Nugent, a recent high profile guest in the White House, threatened Obama and Hillary. FFS Trump himself threatened a violent response from his supporters at the Republican National Convention last summer if he were not to win!

The only people who've lost the plot are the hypocrites crying foul when their movement has been engaged in violent and divisive and demonizing rhetoric for years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2017, 12:02:27 AM
BTW, I would have zero problem with something like the Kathy Griffin stunt or Sharon Angle's statements resulting in arrests.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2017, 12:31:48 AM
And where was all of this sensitivity over the eight years the GOP, especially Trump, were sowing the seeds of division with the most ridiculous personal attacks on Obama, whether on his citizenship or his religion or him being the f**king antichrist! It was a cottage industry on the right! They even got him into a Discovery Channel series on the bible as the personification of the devil FFS!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 16, 2017, 12:37:13 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 15, 2017, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 15, 2017, 08:55:51 PM
Who's responsible for the shooting of Gabby Giffords then, Fox? You gonna hold Sarah Palin responsible for that after her "Second Amendment solutions" speech?

Or on the latest shooting how about Rand "Why do we have a Second Amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical!" Paul?

That's a pathetic attempt of whataboutery Eamon. Not in the same league.
It's been a unified message coming from the democrat party for months to resist and cause unrest for the new administration.
I hope they are ashamed of themselves now. Doubt it though.

Who's responsible, Fox? The shooters or the people who incite them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on June 16, 2017, 01:15:11 PM
The shooters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2017, 02:17:20 PM
So Trump is going to let the so-called Dreamer kids stay after all. He won't extend the amnesty to their parents as Obama wanted to do, but I guess it's better than nothing.

Armed ICE cops busting into schools looking for fourth graders wasn't working too well, PR-wise, I suppose.

The right wing is going to be pissed off though! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 16, 2017, 03:50:15 PM
Donnie Dickhead under investigation  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 16, 2017, 07:03:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2017, 02:17:20 PM
So Trump is going to let the so-called Dreamer kids stay after all. He won't extend the amnesty to their parents as Obama wanted to do, but I guess it's better than nothing.

Armed ICE cops busting into schools looking for fourth graders wasn't working too well, PR-wise, I suppose.

The right wing is going to be pissed off though! :)

Yup. The right loves violence and ripping families apart, but I suppose even that has its limits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 16, 2017, 11:06:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 16, 2017, 07:03:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2017, 02:17:20 PM
So Trump is going to let the so-called Dreamer kids stay after all. He won't extend the amnesty to their parents as Obama wanted to do, but I guess it's better than nothing.

Armed ICE cops busting into schools looking for fourth graders wasn't working too well, PR-wise, I suppose.

The right wing is going to be pissed off though! :)

Yup. The right loves violence and ripping families apart, but I suppose even that has its limits.

f**k off Eamon with your left wing bullshit, no one wants families ripped apart, some want the rule of law to you know, be followed!


In four days the USA will be wide open for everyone according to one democrat!

Governor of Virginia, Democrat Terry McAuliffe, brought up gun control and accidentally claimed 93 million people die from guns every day.

The Democratic Governor of Virginia decided to make the shooting of Republican House Whip Steve Scalise political by bringing up gun control in a press conference just moments after Scalise and Capitol Police were shot by a guy who was a Trump/Russia alarmist.

Terry McAuliffe is using a tragic incident involving a Republican lawmaker to advance his own political agenda even though it seems the attacker may have been influenced by McAuliffe's own party's rhetoric.

First McAuliffe started his statement by accidentally saying 93 million people are killed by guns per day which he later corrected after several reporters called him out on it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on June 16, 2017, 11:15:00 PM
Btw just as an outsider looking in Stew, bringing up gun control after a mass shooting is not political.  It's called common f**king sense!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 17, 2017, 01:29:22 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 16, 2017, 11:15:00 PM
Btw just as an outsider looking in Stew, bringing up gun control after a mass shooting is not political.  It's called common f**king sense!

;D

The right wouldn't be the best with the aul common sense now!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 17, 2017, 09:38:17 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 16, 2017, 11:15:00 PM
Btw just as an outsider looking in Stew, bringing up gun control after a mass shooting is not political.  It's called common f**king sense!

Yes, you hear this canard EVERY time some mass or otherwise high-profile shooting happens.

It basically amounts to "I don't want to talk about this right now because, you know, it might be in people's minds that maybe gun control might NOT be a bad thing and that is just awkward for me".

It's amazing how you never hear "now is not the time to discuss this" when a Muslim terrorist act or a plane crash or something happens. It's only when the discussion of the causes and remedies might make bring the beliefs of the right wing into public question.

And of course the GOP congressman who lamented the fact that the Capitol cops didn't have higher power weapons on them was NOT accused of politicizing the issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 17, 2017, 09:48:14 AM
And stew, if no one wants families ripped apart, why not extend the DAMA act to the parents of Dreamer kids? Because they are still being targeted, along with all the other splitting of families which has sped up due to Trump going after people with minor, non-violent, infractions who had been allowed to stay, albeit subject to monitoring, under Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 18, 2017, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 16, 2017, 11:15:00 PM
Btw just as an outsider looking in Stew, bringing up gun control after a mass shooting is not political.  It's called common f**king sense!

It is political, of course it is political, that does not make it wrong.

As for common sense, the USA has none when it comes to the subject of guns, on either side of the argument.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on June 18, 2017, 07:26:48 PM
Quote from: stew on June 18, 2017, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 16, 2017, 11:15:00 PM
Btw just as an outsider looking in Stew, bringing up gun control after a mass shooting is not political.  It's called common f**king sense!

It is political, of course it is political, that does not make it wrong.

As for common sense, the USA has none when it comes to the subject of guns, on either side of the argument.
Right so your point on a democrat politican calling out for tighter controls in the aftermath of this shooting was what then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 18, 2017, 08:28:24 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 18, 2017, 07:26:48 PM
Quote from: stew on June 18, 2017, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 16, 2017, 11:15:00 PM
Btw just as an outsider looking in Stew, bringing up gun control after a mass shooting is not political.  It's called common f**king sense!

It is political, of course it is political, that does not make it wrong.

As for common sense, the USA has none when it comes to the subject of guns, on either side of the argument.
Right so your point on a democrat politican calling out for tighter controls in the aftermath of this shooting was what then?

My point is I am sick of hearing the liberals talk about gun control and have done nothing about gum control even when Obama had the firepower to change the laws for the better, as for the right? They are an absolute disgrace on the issue of gun law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on June 18, 2017, 09:03:30 PM
Quote from: stew on June 18, 2017, 08:28:24 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 18, 2017, 07:26:48 PM
Quote from: stew on June 18, 2017, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 16, 2017, 11:15:00 PM
Btw just as an outsider looking in Stew, bringing up gun control after a mass shooting is not political.  It's called common f**king sense!

It is political, of course it is political, that does not make it wrong.

As for common sense, the USA has none when it comes to the subject of guns, on either side of the argument.
Right so your point on a democrat politican calling out for tighter controls in the aftermath of this shooting was what then?

My point is I am sick of hearing the liberals talk about gun control and have done nothing about gum control even when Obama had the firepower to change the laws for the better, as for the right? They are an absolute disgrace on the issue of gun law.
is it not a matter of fact that Obama had several high profile laws aimed at curbing the sale of automatic weapons, sale of weapons without at background checks and sale of weapons to peoplemwith mental health issues blocked?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 18, 2017, 09:32:21 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 18, 2017, 09:03:30 PM
Quote from: stew on June 18, 2017, 08:28:24 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 18, 2017, 07:26:48 PM
Quote from: stew on June 18, 2017, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 16, 2017, 11:15:00 PM
Btw just as an outsider looking in Stew, bringing up gun control after a mass shooting is not political.  It's called common f**king sense!

It is political, of course it is political, that does not make it wrong.

As for common sense, the USA has none when it comes to the subject of guns, on either side of the argument.
Right so your point on a democrat politican calling out for tighter controls in the aftermath of this shooting was what then?

My point is I am sick of hearing the liberals talk about gun control and have done nothing about gum control even when Obama had the firepower to change the laws for the better, as for the right? They are an absolute disgrace on the issue of gun law.
is it not a matter of fact that Obama had several high profile laws aimed at curbing the sale of automatic weapons, sale of weapons without at background checks and sale of weapons to peoplemwith mental health issues blocked?

What part of the republicans are a disgrace on this issue didnt you get????

Obama did nothing when he had the window of opportunity at the start of his presidency, alas as usual he fluffed his lines.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 19, 2017, 12:04:18 AM
Obama is not the issue here Stew, let it go.

The issue is politicians acting in the interest of their donors versus the interest of their citizens
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 19, 2017, 07:43:30 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 19, 2017, 12:04:18 AM
Obama is not the issue here Stew, let it go.

The issue is politicians acting in the interest of their donors versus the interest of their citizens

Obama talked a lot but as usual did nothing or next to it when he had the chance, so he is part of the issue and I wont let it go!

Did Obama or did Obama not have the votes in the house/senate at one time to reform the leglislation on gun control???

If your answer is yes then why the f**k did he not do anything about gun control????

His home town is rife with murder, children being killed and the two parties sit on their hands and do nothing, it is a disgrace.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2017, 01:15:13 PM
I think stew has somewhat of a point, even if it is naive to the facts of political life. The main thing is that gun control wouldn't have passed, as it would have been political suicide for several Democratic senators from red states at the time. It is a simple fact that the opponents of gun control are FAR, FAR more motivated and better funded and connected by this as a political cause than the proponents. And even if it had by some miracle passed, it would have made reelection for Obama himself very tough, which obviously has implications for all kinds of issues beyond gun control (which itself would have been immediately rolled back). And then there is also the fact that Obama basically had higher priorities with the economy and healthcare in those first two years. You only have so much political capital, so you have to prioritize, no matter what party you are from. A president can't address each and every item that his party cares about. Even the three or four GOP senators who were willing to negotiate at the time on the drafting of Obamacare - do you think he would have got even those into the room if gun control had been on the table at the time? And if you think the tea party stuff on healthcare and mortgages was bad, what kind of response do you think there would have been to a ban on assault rifles?

P.S. Obama had 60 votes in the senate for a grand total of five months from 2009-2011.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2017, 10:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2017, 01:15:13 PM
I think stew has somewhat of a point, even if it is naive to the facts of political life. The main thing is that gun control wouldn't have passed, as it would have been political suicide for several Democratic senators from red states at the time. It is a simple fact that the opponents of gun control are FAR, FAR more motivated and better funded and connected by this as a political cause than the proponents. And even if it had by some miracle passed, it would have made reelection for Obama himself very tough, which obviously has implications for all kinds of issues beyond gun control (which itself would have been immediately rolled back). And then there is also the fact that Obama basically had higher priorities with the economy and healthcare in those first two years. You only have so much political capital, so you have to prioritize, no matter what party you are from. A president can't address each and every item that his party cares about. Even the three or four GOP senators who were willing to negotiate at the time on the drafting of Obamacare - do you think he would have got even those into the room if gun control had been on the table at the time? And if you think the tea party stuff on healthcare and mortgages was bad, what kind of response do you think there would have been to a ban on assault rifles?

P.S. Obama had 60 votes in the senate for a grand total of five months from 2009-2011.

There is very little political appetite to address this issue

Many people (rightly or wrongly) feel that the constitution gives them a right to bear arms.

If I recall correctly this interpretation has been reinforced by the US Supreme Court.

On top of that, gun laws vary from state to state and even city to city, so that any legislative fix will evolve into a "whack a mole" scenario.

Right now, some of the cities with the highest number of gun murders already have some of people he strictly eat gun controls

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 20, 2017, 12:23:39 AM
strictly eat gun controls just don't work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2017, 01:30:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2017, 10:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2017, 01:15:13 PM
I think stew has somewhat of a point, even if it is naive to the facts of political life. The main thing is that gun control wouldn't have passed, as it would have been political suicide for several Democratic senators from red states at the time. It is a simple fact that the opponents of gun control are FAR, FAR more motivated and better funded and connected by this as a political cause than the proponents. And even if it had by some miracle passed, it would have made reelection for Obama himself very tough, which obviously has implications for all kinds of issues beyond gun control (which itself would have been immediately rolled back). And then there is also the fact that Obama basically had higher priorities with the economy and healthcare in those first two years. You only have so much political capital, so you have to prioritize, no matter what party you are from. A president can't address each and every item that his party cares about. Even the three or four GOP senators who were willing to negotiate at the time on the drafting of Obamacare - do you think he would have got even those into the room if gun control had been on the table at the time? And if you think the tea party stuff on healthcare and mortgages was bad, what kind of response do you think there would have been to a ban on assault rifles?

P.S. Obama had 60 votes in the senate for a grand total of five months from 2009-2011.

There is very little political appetite to address this issue

Many people (rightly or wrongly) feel that the constitution gives them a right to bear arms.

If I recall correctly this interpretation has been reinforced by the US Supreme Court.

On top of that, gun laws vary from state to state and even city to city, so that any legislative fix will evolve into a "whack a mole" scenario.

Right now, some of the cities with the highest number of gun murders already have some of people he strictly eat gun controls

Yep, its all very well having and enforcing strict gun laws in cities, but when the criminals who need them simply smuggle them in from the surrounding areas and states, there's not a whole lot that can be done.

Personally, gun control is not an issue for me. I've given up caring. There are just so many guns out there and the gun lobby is so entrenched in power that sanity will never prevail. Sandy Hook was the tipping point.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on June 20, 2017, 02:27:25 AM
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/06/17/after_jeronimo_yanez_acquittal_philando_castile_should_be_the_nra_s_perfect.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 21, 2017, 11:06:42 PM
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/06/20/john-cunningham-not-safe-one-safe/OrlwvXMRMd3T13qUKWgxGN/story.html?event=event25

Boston GAA chairman nabbed by ICE last week
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on June 22, 2017, 11:06:06 AM
All the Mexican rapists must be deported already.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2017, 06:48:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2017, 10:24:40 PM


Right now, some of the cities with the highest number of gun murders already have some of people he strictly eat gun controls

Chicago is the one city the gun nuts like to talk about the most, but Chicago is an anomaly because of lax gun laws in the next state over.

(https://ethicsalarms.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/wholechart.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 22, 2017, 07:45:36 PM
So Donnie Dickhead doesn't have any tapes of his Comey conversations ............. there's a f**king shock.

The man is a complete bullshitter.

Last night he said he'd be introducing legislation that would mean new immigrants couldn't claim welfare for the first 5 years and that legislation would pass soon. Only that legislation is already in place and has been for over 20 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 22, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
GOP in the Senate have come up with their own health reform . Political suicide. Once they lose the Midterms the impeachment can start. Trump is a fool.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 22, 2017, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 22, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
GOP in the Senate have come up with their own health reform . Political suicide. Once they lose the Midterms the impeachment can start. Trump is a fool.
there has been a few special elections for congress or the senate since trump was elected and the dems have lost them all I think (Carolina ,Georgia, Iowa ). The guy in Georgia had 20 million dollars spent on his campaign, people not buying into their fake message about being out for the poor people , they are leaderless ,rudderless  and way to far left need to back to center a bit .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2017, 09:53:57 PM
If Democrats don't get rid of Nancy Pelosi they won't retake the house


Polls had Ossoff mysteriously ahead by 5-6 points a week out from the election and he ended up losing by almost 4

He also outspent her 6:1.

Some Dems I have heard that they've overplayed the Russia card and people are just tuning them out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 22, 2017, 11:47:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2017, 09:53:57 PM
If Democrats don't get rid of Nancy Pelosi they won't retake the house


Polls had Ossoff mysteriously ahead by 5-6 points a week out from the election and he ended up losing by almost 4

He also outspent her 6:1.

Some Dems I have heard that they've overplayed the Russia card and people are just tuning them out

I always like to point out the times that I agree with Whitey. Like this one.

Something to do with the Dems, piss up and brewery.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2017, 12:44:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 22, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
GOP in the Senate have come up with their own health reform . Political suicide. Once they lose the Midterms the impeachment can start. Trump is a fool.

I wouldn't be so sure of myself if I was you

It's not like the new bill is replacing a great bill or even a good bill. It's replacing an absolute cluster fvck of a bill that's collapsing in on top of itself daily


I'm sure some people's will lose coverage but under the old bill "it was the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week....their payments have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half"-Bill Clinton
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2017, 06:28:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2017, 12:44:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 22, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
GOP in the Senate have come up with their own health reform . Political suicide. Once they lose the Midterms the impeachment can start. Trump is a fool.

I wouldn't be so sure of myself if I was you

It's not like the new bill is replacing a great bill or even a good bill. It's replacing an absolute cluster fvck of a bill that's collapsing in on top of itself daily


I'm sure some people's will lose coverage but under the old bill "it was the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week....their payments have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half"-Bill Clinton
Taking healthcare away from voters is stupid.
In the UK the Tories had to do a u turn on taxes that loaded costs onto voters.
US healthcare needs reform. Not tax cuts for the 1per cent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2017, 01:38:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2017, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 22, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
GOP in the Senate have come up with their own health reform . Political suicide. Once they lose the Midterms the impeachment can start. Trump is a fool.
there has been a few special elections for congress or the senate since trump was elected and the dems have lost them all I think (Carolina ,Georgia, Iowa ). The guy in Georgia had 20 million dollars spent on his campaign, people not buying into their fake message about being out for the poor people , they are leaderless ,rudderless  and way to far left need to back to center a bit .

Of course the fact that these are all historically safe-as-houses seats for the GOP which ended up being skin-of-their-teeth wins is irrelevant.

How is the "for the poor people" message "fake"?

Which party is currently proposing to strip Medicaid from poor people in favour of tax cuts for the wealthy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2017, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2017, 12:44:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 22, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
GOP in the Senate have come up with their own health reform . Political suicide. Once they lose the Midterms the impeachment can start. Trump is a fool.

I wouldn't be so sure of myself if I was you

It's not like the new bill is replacing a great bill or even a good bill. It's replacing an absolute cluster fvck of a bill that's collapsing in on top of itself daily


I'm sure some people's will lose coverage but under the old bill "it was the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week....their payments have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half"-Bill Clinton

So where is the "we are going to cover more people with tremendous plans for much less money" proposal Trump promised us?

You think a return to the before-Obamacare status quo of bare bones plans which resulted in people losing houses and going bankrupt or forgoing care altogether is going to be better?

I listened to a woman in Tennessee the other morning on NPR who was getting free dental care at a government-funded free weekend clinic. This woman couldn't afford to get regular dental care and had lost all of her upper teeth (she was 27). She was a keen Trump supporter. She was confident that he would pass some kind of legislation that would allow her to afford regular medical and dental care. But she absolutely rejected that government would have ANY role in the process. No details forthcoming from her about how that would work, but she was confident that there were people who were "smarter than her" (her words) who would come up with something.

Are these people for f**king real?

People need to decide whether the poor and sick and less fortunate are going to be cut loose and forgotten, or if society is going to all pitch in and help them with proper care, including preventative care. You can't have it both ways, especially in a system like the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2017, 03:02:05 PM
The situation before Obamacare was unacceptable

Democrats can say stick their heads in the sand and extoll the virtues of Obamacare but the reality is that it has led to their annihilation at the polls during the past several elections

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/Felsenthal-Files/November-2013/Obama-Should-Have-Listened-to-the-Emanuel-Brothers-About-Obamacare/

I'm sure the new Republican plan won't be any great shakes either

I'm beginning to think it's like the gun control debate....really no workable solution

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2017, 04:53:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2017, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2017, 12:44:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 22, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
GOP in the Senate have come up with their own health reform . Political suicide. Once they lose the Midterms the impeachment can start. Trump is a fool.

I wouldn't be so sure of myself if I was you

It's not like the new bill is replacing a great bill or even a good bill. It's replacing an absolute cluster fvck of a bill that's collapsing in on top of itself daily


I'm sure some people's will lose coverage but under the old bill "it was the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week....their payments have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half"-Bill Clinton

So where is the "we are going to cover more people with tremendous plans for much less money" proposal Trump promised us?

You think a return to the before-Obamacare status quo of bare bones plans which resulted in people losing houses and going bankrupt or forgoing care altogether is going to be better?

I listened to a woman in Tennessee the other morning on NPR who was getting free dental care at a government-funded free weekend clinic. This woman couldn't afford to get regular dental care and had lost all of her upper teeth (she was 27). She was a keen Trump supporter. She was confident that he would pass some kind of legislation that would allow her to afford regular medical and dental care. But she absolutely rejected that government would have ANY role in the process. No details forthcoming from her about how that would work, but she was confident that there were people who were "smarter than her" (her words) who would come up with something.

Are these people for f**king real?

People need to decide whether the poor and sick and less fortunate are going to be cut loose and forgotten, or if society is going to all pitch in and help them with proper care, including preventative care. You can't have it both ways, especially in a system like the US.
Health crises drIve an awful lot of bankruptcies in the US.
The GOP will crucify their own voters. WTF.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 24, 2017, 06:51:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2017, 04:53:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2017, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2017, 12:44:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 22, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
GOP in the Senate have come up with their own health reform . Political suicide. Once they lose the Midterms the impeachment can start. Trump is a fool.

I wouldn't be so sure of myself if I was you

It's not like the new bill is replacing a great bill or even a good bill. It's replacing an absolute cluster fvck of a bill that's collapsing in on top of itself daily


I'm sure some people's will lose coverage but under the old bill "it was the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week....their payments have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half"-Bill Clinton

So where is the "we are going to cover more people with tremendous plans for much less money" proposal Trump promised us?

You think a return to the before-Obamacare status quo of bare bones plans which resulted in people losing houses and going bankrupt or forgoing care altogether is going to be better?

I listened to a woman in Tennessee the other morning on NPR who was getting free dental care at a government-funded free weekend clinic. This woman couldn't afford to get regular dental care and had lost all of her upper teeth (she was 27). She was a keen Trump supporter. She was confident that he would pass some kind of legislation that would allow her to afford regular medical and dental care. But she absolutely rejected that government would have ANY role in the process. No details forthcoming from her about how that would work, but she was confident that there were people who were "smarter than her" (her words) who would come up with something.

Are these people for f**king real?

People need to decide whether the poor and sick and less fortunate are going to be cut loose and forgotten, or if society is going to all pitch in and help them with proper care, including preventative care. You can't have it both ways, especially in a system like the US.
Health crises drIve an awful lot of bankruptcies in the US.
The GOP will crucify their own voters. WTF.

They will still win if the libs dont get off the anti Trump shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
Stew, Trump support is mid 30s. He has to fire up that ignorant evangelical Base and reach out to moderates. Not gonna happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 25, 2017, 03:57:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
Stew, Trump support is mid 30s. He has to fire up that ignorant evangelical Base and reach out to moderates. Not gonna happen.

Did you miss the four elections last week? He went 4-0 the dems got their asses handed to them foid, they need to change their leadership and get rid of the old guard, they then need to come to the centre and they need to have a plan to grow the economy, safeguard the borders and fix the healthcare mess, getting rid of the defecit, well some of it anyway would be a good idea as well, what they are doing now is killing them thank feck. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2017, 07:41:45 PM
Maybe their plan should be along the lines of what Kellyanne said this morning of the poor people who are going to lose their Medicaid coverage. Basically, "get a job that offers health insurance".

Is THAT all it takes Kellyanne? You're going to start making all these businesses who employ low wage workers start offering medical insurance? Or are you just another GOPer saying "f**k you, not my problem" to appeal to the prejudices of your base?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on June 25, 2017, 08:18:27 PM
I think everyone knows by now that Kellyann is not to be taken seriously
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 27, 2017, 08:33:01 PM
CNN caught out again with producer admitting on video the Russian collusion stories are mostly bullshit and there is no proof and they push them for ratings . You could add NBC  cbs  abc to the list here as well as most big newspapers in the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 27, 2017, 11:07:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2017, 08:33:01 PM
CNN caught out again with producer admitting on video the Russian collusion stories are mostly bullshit and there is no proof and they push them for ratings . You could add NBC  cbs  abc to the list here as well as most big newspapers in the country.

Source?

The only thing I see is the story published on their website about the Trump pal that they had to retract and apologize for and fire several journalists for.

When is your side's leader going to apologize for a single, solitary piece of the lies and bullshit coming out of his mouth daily?

Edit: I see from a story on the Spicer substitute that she's urging everyone to watch the latest O'Keefe video, even though she doesn't know if its accurate or not.

Yes, let's cry "fake news" and attack the media while pushing material from a proven fraud. Got it. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 28, 2017, 12:40:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2017, 11:07:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2017, 08:33:01 PM
CNN caught out again with producer admitting on video the Russian collusion stories are mostly bullshit and there is no proof and they push them for ratings . You could add NBC  cbs  abc to the list here as well as most big newspapers in the country.

Source?

The only thing I see is the story published on their website about the Trump pal that they had to retract and apologize for and fire several journalists for.

When is your side's leader going to apologize for a single, solitary piece of the lies and bullshit coming out of his mouth daily?

Edit: I see from a story on the Spicer substitute that she's urging everyone to watch the latest O'Keefe video, even though she doesn't know if its accurate or not.

Yes, let's cry "fake news" and attack the media while pushing material from a proven fraud. Got it. ::)
cnn are an international news organisation not a political party they are a disgrace 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 12:54:52 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 28, 2017, 12:40:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2017, 11:07:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2017, 08:33:01 PM
CNN caught out again with producer admitting on video the Russian collusion stories are mostly bullshit and there is no proof and they push them for ratings . You could add NBC  cbs  abc to the list here as well as most big newspapers in the country.

Source?

The only thing I see is the story published on their website about the Trump pal that they had to retract and apologize for and fire several journalists for.

When is your side's leader going to apologize for a single, solitary piece of the lies and bullshit coming out of his mouth daily?

Edit: I see from a story on the Spicer substitute that she's urging everyone to watch the latest O'Keefe video, even though she doesn't know if its accurate or not.

Yes, let's cry "fake news" and attack the media while pushing material from a proven fraud. Got it. ::)
cnn are an international news organisation not a political party they are a disgrace

Yes, they are a news organization and they issued a retraction and booted the people out who were responsible for the story.

Trump is the f**king president and he and his minions lie to the people almost every time they open their mouths, never issue a mea culpa, ever, and direct people, over and over again, to conspiracy theorists and proven fraudsters for information.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 28, 2017, 01:17:02 AM
Senate health "care" bill is dead, Jim.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 28, 2017, 01:35:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 12:54:52 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 28, 2017, 12:40:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2017, 11:07:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2017, 08:33:01 PM
CNN caught out again with producer admitting on video the Russian collusion stories are mostly bullshit and there is no proof and they push them for ratings . You could add NBC  cbs  abc to the list here as well as most big newspapers in the country.

Source?

The only thing I see is the story published on their website about the Trump pal that they had to retract and apologize for and fire several journalists for.

When is your side's leader going to apologize for a single, solitary piece of the lies and bullshit coming out of his mouth daily?

Edit: I see from a story on the Spicer substitute that she's urging everyone to watch the latest O'Keefe video, even though she doesn't know if its accurate or not.

Yes, let's cry "fake news" and attack the media while pushing material from a proven fraud. Got it. ::)
cnn are an international news organisation not a political party they are a disgrace

Yes, they are a news organization and they issued a retraction and booted the people out who were responsible for the story.

Trump is the f**king president and he and his minions lie to the people almost every time they open their mouths, never issue a mea culpa, ever, and direct people, over and over again, to conspiracy theorists and proven fraudsters for information.
what about Anderson cooper ,jake tapper ,wolf blitzer ,don Lemmon , Rachel Maddox ,Chris Hayes , Chris Mathews , Larry o donnell all prime time news broadcasters pumping a story that is a pile of shite for 6 months non stop who do they answer to.
The Russians hacked the dnc email accounts and made them public and I don't think there is any denying the Russians wanted trump to win but i think that's where it ends.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 01:53:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 28, 2017, 01:35:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 12:54:52 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 28, 2017, 12:40:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2017, 11:07:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2017, 08:33:01 PM
CNN caught out again with producer admitting on video the Russian collusion stories are mostly bullshit and there is no proof and they push them for ratings . You could add NBC  cbs  abc to the list here as well as most big newspapers in the country.

Source?

The only thing I see is the story published on their website about the Trump pal that they had to retract and apologize for and fire several journalists for.

When is your side's leader going to apologize for a single, solitary piece of the lies and bullshit coming out of his mouth daily?

Edit: I see from a story on the Spicer substitute that she's urging everyone to watch the latest O'Keefe video, even though she doesn't know if its accurate or not.

Yes, let's cry "fake news" and attack the media while pushing material from a proven fraud. Got it. ::)
cnn are an international news organisation not a political party they are a disgrace

Yes, they are a news organization and they issued a retraction and booted the people out who were responsible for the story.

Trump is the f**king president and he and his minions lie to the people almost every time they open their mouths, never issue a mea culpa, ever, and direct people, over and over again, to conspiracy theorists and proven fraudsters for information.
what about Anderson cooper ,jake tapper ,wolf blitzer ,don Lemmon , Rachel Maddox ,Chris Hayes , Chris Mathews , Larry o donnell all prime time news broadcasters pumping a story that is a pile of shite for 6 months non stop who do they answer to.
The Russians hacked the dnc email accounts and made them public and I don't think there is any denying the Russians wanted trump to win but i think that's where it ends.

Yeah, CNN know how to ride a story to death, that's for sure (remember the Malaysian airliner?).   ;D

That doesn't mean it isn't true. Various people involved did mislead or obfuscate over various meetings with various Russians. But that's what the investigations will (hopefully) show... what the Russians did, which Russians did it, and whether there was any involvement/coordination with the Trump campaign. At least Trump, belatedly, seems to be acknowledging that the Russians DID interfere. And if there was in fact no involvement on the part of his campaign, he's been doing a piss-poor job of handling the situation.

But I've zero sympathy for him, a man who doesn't give a shit who he slimes or lies about or hurts if it could earn him a headline. He's a sc**bag thoroughly lacking in moral fibre, and its his own fault more than half of the country utterly despises him.

Romney or Kasich or Jeb would have attracted nowhere near the level of personal animus Trump does, as they are seen as personally decent men, whatever about their political positions. Trump is just a sorry excuse for a human being, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 02:11:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)

Oh no... another O'Keefe video! Boots are being quaked in, I'm sure! :)

Trump was right about WHAT, exactly?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 28, 2017, 02:21:35 AM
The resignations were because they didn't follow protocol.

Republicans fight back? There is a minority leader in power in the US and the UK, they shouldn't fight back they should try and unite the people while in power.

Still waiting on nominations for government roles and more to the point, where is my infrastructure?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 02:27:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 28, 2017, 01:17:02 AM
Senate health "care" bill is dead, Jim.

They should hope, for their own sakes, it is, at least with a long term view.

I don't think Trump gives a f**k, either way, what's in the bill. He just wants something...ANYTHING!... to sign and stick it to Obama. The fact that he had that victory gathering in the Rose Garden after the House passed their version and then dismissed it as "mean" a few weeks later tells you all you need to know about how morally and intellectually bankrupt and unprincipled the man is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:38:02 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 28, 2017, 02:21:35 AM
The resignations were because they didn't follow protocol.

Republicans fight back? There is a minority leader in power in the US and the UK, they shouldn't fight back they should try and unite the people while in power.

Still waiting on nominations for government roles and more to the point, where is my infrastructure?


Let me finish your sentence.....they didnt follow protocol AND PUBLISHED A FAKE STORY

They are fighting back against a very biased media.   Theres enough really bad TRUE stuff to report, but when you flat out make $hit up people tune everything out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:40:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 02:11:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)

Oh no... another O'Keefe video! Boots are being quaked in, I'm sure! :)

Trump was right about WHAT, exactly?

There is actual "real FAKE" news being peddled by some in the main stream media.....its not ALL a figment of his imagination

FFS The day after inaugaration, some moron from Time Magazine reported that Trump had removed the bust of MLK from the oval office.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 28, 2017, 05:18:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)

I am truly amazed that you have the inside track on the works of O'Keefe. :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 08:02:32 AM
Quote from: omochain on June 28, 2017, 05:18:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)

I am truly amazed that you have the inside track on the works of O'Keefe. :o

Its called a twitter feed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on June 28, 2017, 09:17:54 AM
Anyone got any insight or opinion on what's going on in Venezuela and the Americans' part, if any, in it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:40:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 02:11:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)

Oh no... another O'Keefe video! Boots are being quaked in, I'm sure! :)

Trump was right about WHAT, exactly?

There is actual "real FAKE" news being peddled by some in the main stream media.....its not ALL a figment of his imagination

FFS The day after inaugaration, some moron from Time Magazine reported that Trump had removed the bust of MLK from the oval office.

FFS the guy retracted it immediately. Journalists/media outlets get it wrong sometimes and have to issue retractions. Its as old as the hills and didn't start when this clown took office.

How long did it take Trump to disavow his birther nonsense? Has he ever issued a mea culpa for the Central Park five? The p***k lies through his teeth every day and we're supposed to feel bad when a news organization occasionally gets it wrong and has to retract a story? Give me a f**king break.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 28, 2017, 09:17:54 AM
Anyone got any insight or opinion on what's going on in Venezuela and the Americans' part, if any, in it?

You apparently do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:40:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 02:11:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)

Oh no... another O'Keefe video! Boots are being quaked in, I'm sure! :)

Trump was right about WHAT, exactly?

There is actual "real FAKE" news being peddled by some in the main stream media.....its not ALL a figment of his imagination

FFS The day after inaugaration, some moron from Time Magazine reported that Trump had removed the bust of MLK from the oval office.

FFS the guy retracted it immediately. Journalists/media outlets get it wrong sometimes and have to issue retractions. Its as old as the hills and didn't start when this clown took office.

How long did it take Trump to disavow his birther nonsense? Has he ever issued a mea culpa for the Central Park five? The p***k lies through his teeth every day and we're supposed to feel bad when a news organization occasionally gets it wrong and has to retract a story? Give me a f**king break.

Lol....doesn't matter....Its all fake news....CNN and NY Times now have about as much credibility as Breitbart.  Did the MSM learn nothing from the election?  They are of step with a large swath of the American Electorate and instead of working to regain credibility they're doubling down


I'm s really bizarre....it's like a train wreck in slow motion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 11:30:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:40:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 02:11:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)

Oh no... another O'Keefe video! Boots are being quaked in, I'm sure! :)

Trump was right about WHAT, exactly?

There is actual "real FAKE" news being peddled by some in the main stream media.....its not ALL a figment of his imagination

FFS The day after inaugaration, some moron from Time Magazine reported that Trump had removed the bust of MLK from the oval office.

FFS the guy retracted it immediately. Journalists/media outlets get it wrong sometimes and have to issue retractions. Its as old as the hills and didn't start when this clown took office.

How long did it take Trump to disavow his birther nonsense? Has he ever issued a mea culpa for the Central Park five? The p***k lies through his teeth every day and we're supposed to feel bad when a news organization occasionally gets it wrong and has to retract a story? Give me a f**king break.

Lol....doesn't matter....Its all fake news....CNN and NY Times now have about as much credibility as Breitbart.  Did the MSM learn nothing from the election?  They are out of step with a large swath of the American Electorate and instead of working to regain credibility they're doubling down


I'ts really bizarre....it's like a train wreck in slow motion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:43:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:40:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 02:11:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)

Oh no... another O'Keefe video! Boots are being quaked in, I'm sure! :)

Trump was right about WHAT, exactly?

There is actual "real FAKE" news being peddled by some in the main stream media.....its not ALL a figment of his imagination

FFS The day after inaugaration, some moron from Time Magazine reported that Trump had removed the bust of MLK from the oval office.

FFS the guy retracted it immediately. Journalists/media outlets get it wrong sometimes and have to issue retractions. Its as old as the hills and didn't start when this clown took office.

How long did it take Trump to disavow his birther nonsense? Has he ever issued a mea culpa for the Central Park five? The p***k lies through his teeth every day and we're supposed to feel bad when a news organization occasionally gets it wrong and has to retract a story? Give me a f**king break.

Lol....doesn't matter....Its all fake news....CNN and NY Times now have about as much credibility as Breitbart.  Did the MSM learn nothing from the election?  They are of step with a large swath of the American Electorate and instead of working to regain credibility they're doubling down


I'm s really bizarre....it's like a train wreck in slow motion

Infowars is credible for a significant part of the GOP base, never mind Breitbart.

I have little time for CNN due to their sensationalism, but the idea that a mainstream outlet like the Times (or the WSJ or Washington Post or whatever) is non-credible because they don't tell a certain part of the populous what they want to hear is ludicrous.

You want the Times to start getting into climate denialism or hyping up the dying coal industry or denouncing gay rights just so the GOP base won't be offended?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 11:55:36 AM
WSJ regularly features progresssive commentators

NY Times readers were out with burning pitchforks when they dared feature a conservative opinion

Progressive are all for diversity, except diversity of opinion


https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/03/public-editor/bret-stephens-climate-change-liz-spayd-public-editor.amp.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 12:05:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 11:55:36 AM
WSJ regularly features progresssive commentators

NY Times readers were out with burning pitchforks when they dared feature a conservative opinion

Progressive are all for diversity, except diversity of opinion


https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/03/public-editor/bret-stephens-climate-change-liz-spayd-public-editor.amp.html

Yet Stephens is still employed by and being published by the Times. While David Brooks and Ross Douhat are published several times a week and have been for years.

So much for THAT line of attack... ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on June 28, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 28, 2017, 09:17:54 AM
Anyone got any insight or opinion on what's going on in Venezuela and the Americans' part, if any, in it?

You apparently do.
How did you come to that conclusion?

I read what's happening per RTE news and that the president is accusing the Americans of trying to orchestrate a coup.

I wanted to know if anyone had read/heard anything further.

I hope you agree that your post was utterly pointless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 12:21:46 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 28, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 28, 2017, 09:17:54 AM
Anyone got any insight or opinion on what's going on in Venezuela and the Americans' part, if any, in it?

You apparently do.
How did you come to that conclusion?

I read what's happening per RTE news and that the president is accusing the Americans of trying to orchestrate a coup.

I wanted to know if anyone had read/heard anything further.

I hope you agree that your post was utterly pointless.

Well, your post seemed to suggest that you had an opinion on the issue and wished to discuss it.

If you're only looking for info, there's better places than this board.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 12:05:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 11:55:36 AM
WSJ regularly features progresssive commentators

NY Times readers were out with burning pitchforks when they dared feature a conservative opinion

Progressive are all for diversity, except diversity of opinion


https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/03/public-editor/bret-stephens-climate-change-liz-spayd-public-editor.amp.html

Yet Stephens is still employed by and being published by the Times. While David Brooks and Ross Douhat are published several times a week and have been for years.

So much for THAT line of attack... ::)


Yes....but they're under seige!

www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/02/conservative-columnist-under-siege-after-n-y-times-debut-on-climate-change.amp.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on June 28, 2017, 12:36:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 12:21:46 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 28, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 28, 2017, 09:17:54 AM
Anyone got any insight or opinion on what's going on in Venezuela and the Americans' part, if any, in it?

You apparently do.
How did you come to that conclusion?

I read what's happening per RTE news and that the president is accusing the Americans of trying to orchestrate a coup.

I wanted to know if anyone had read/heard anything further.

I hope you agree that your post was utterly pointless.

Well, your post seemed to suggest that you had an opinion on the issue and wished to discuss it.

If you're only looking for info, there's better places than this board.
Thank you, again, for your input.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 28, 2017, 12:46:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:40:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 02:11:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
O Keefe supposedly has another tape coming out tomorrow....CNN=Fake News

I think the Republicans are beginning to fight back.....looks like CNN were fed a fake story last week that led to 3 pretty senior people getting fired

Trump was right all along (and I am not a Trump supporter)

Oh no... another O'Keefe video! Boots are being quaked in, I'm sure! :)

Trump was right about WHAT, exactly?

There is actual "real FAKE" news being peddled by some in the main stream media.....its not ALL a figment of his imagination

FFS The day after inaugaration, some moron from Time Magazine reported that Trump had removed the bust of MLK from the oval office.

FFS the guy retracted it immediately. Journalists/media outlets get it wrong sometimes and have to issue retractions. Its as old as the hills and didn't start when this clown took office.

How long did it take Trump to disavow his birther nonsense? Has he ever issued a mea culpa for the Central Park five? The p***k lies through his teeth every day and we're supposed to feel bad when a news organization occasionally gets it wrong and has to retract a story? Give me a f**king break.

Lol....doesn't matter....Its all fake news....CNN and NY Times now have about as much credibility as Breitbart.  Did the MSM learn nothing from the election?  They are of step with a large swath of the American Electorate and instead of working to regain credibility they're doubling down


I'm s really bizarre....it's like a train wreck in slow motion

This is the big lie that nobody calls. It's the oldest trick in the book, beloved of every demagogue and shyster who wants to pull the wool over the people's eyes. But it's just a schoolyard meme.

Your Dad's doing jail time for armed robbery.
- Your Dad got a fine for a broken tail light. He's a criminal too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 01:52:56 PM
So you think The NY Times gave every candidate a fair and accurate hearing during the election?

What about the time they edited a pro Bernie article and made it into an anti Bernie article?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/publiceditor/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/?referer=

"Later, former Labor Secretary Robert Reich criticized The Times on Facebook, accusing it of caving in to Hillary Clinton interests."


Talk about shysters and fraudsters.  And Chuck Schumer wonders why Breitbart has as much credibility as the Ny Times
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 01:58:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 12:05:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 11:55:36 AM
WSJ regularly features progresssive commentators

NY Times readers were out with burning pitchforks when they dared feature a conservative opinion

Progressive are all for diversity, except diversity of opinion


https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/03/public-editor/bret-stephens-climate-change-liz-spayd-public-editor.amp.html

Yet Stephens is still employed by and being published by the Times. While David Brooks and Ross Douhat are published several times a week and have been for years.

So much for THAT line of attack... ::)


Yes....but they're under seige!

www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/02/conservative-columnist-under-siege-after-n-y-times-debut-on-climate-change.amp.html

They pissed off some subscribers by hiring a climate denialist (this is not about conservatism, its about science... unless you're going to bracket being anti-science with conservatism?) but brazened it out by keeping him and this somehow supports your point that they're biased and purveyors of "fake news"??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 28, 2017, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:38:02 AM
Quote from: heganboy on June 28, 2017, 02:21:35 AM
The resignations were because they didn't follow protocol.

Republicans fight back? There is a minority leader in power in the US and the UK, they shouldn't fight back they should try and unite the people while in power.

Still waiting on nominations for government roles and more to the point, where is my infrastructure?


Let me finish your sentence.....they didnt follow protocol AND PUBLISHED A FAKE STORY

They are fighting back against a very biased media.   Theres enough really bad TRUE stuff to report, but when you flat out make $hit up people tune everything out

There is no resignation based on a false story, there is absolutely and pointedly no admittance of false story in the retraction or the apology.

the resignation is due to not meeting editorial standards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Oh, I get it....they fired 3 senior people, including a Pulitzer Prize winner for writing a true story
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Oh, I get it....they fired 3 senior people, including a Pulitzer Prize winner for writing a true story

Fake news!!!!

They resigned
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 28, 2017, 02:51:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 01:52:56 PM
So you think The NY Times gave every candidate a fair and accurate hearing during the election?

What about the time they edited a pro Bernie article and made it into an anti Bernie article?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/publiceditor/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/?referer= (https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/publiceditor/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/?referer=)

"Later, former Labor Secretary Robert Reich criticized The Times on Facebook, accusing it of caving in to Hillary Clinton interests."


Talk about shysters and fraudsters.  And Chuck Schumer wonders why Breitbart has as much credibility as the Ny Times

There you go again.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Oh, I get it....they fired 3 senior people, including a Pulitzer Prize winner for writing a true story

Fake news!!!!

They resigned

Lol

Were they asked to resign?

Were they forced to resign?

THEY WERE FVCKIN FIRED FOR MAKIN $HIT UP!!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 03:27:16 PM
Something you are well accustomed to  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 03:30:10 PM
How old are you??? 8

I stand by everything I post
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 03:51:35 PM
You print out all your posts and stand beside a pile of paper?

Wow - congratulations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 04:34:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Oh, I get it....they fired 3 senior people, including a Pulitzer Prize winner for writing a true story

Fake news!!!!

They resigned

Lol

Were they asked to resign?

Were they forced to resign?

THEY WERE FVCKIN FIRED FOR MAKIN $HIT UP!!!!!

Who says they "made shit up"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 05:43:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 04:34:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Oh, I get it....they fired 3 senior people, including a Pulitzer Prize winner for writing a true story

Fake news!!!!

They resigned

Lol

Were they asked to resign?

Were they forced to resign?

THEY WERE FVCKIN FIRED FOR MAKIN $HIT UP!!!!!

Who says they "made shit up"?

Me and plenty of other knowledgeable people

These guys were responsible for publishing a story that needed to be "retracted" and then all three of them were fired.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 05:55:20 PM
There you go with your fake news again  ;D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 07:14:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 05:43:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 04:34:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Oh, I get it....they fired 3 senior people, including a Pulitzer Prize winner for writing a true story

Fake news!!!!

They resigned

Lol

Were they asked to resign?

Were they forced to resign?

THEY WERE FVCKIN FIRED FOR MAKIN $HIT UP!!!!!

Who says they "made shit up"?

Me and plenty of other knowledgeable people

These guys were responsible for publishing a story that needed to be "retracted" and then all three of them were fired.

YOU have personal knowledge that they made it up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 28, 2017, 07:17:20 PM
CNN pull one story. Fox is 60 per cent bullshit. Climate change is fake. Hillary Clinton abuses children in a DC pizzeria and so on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 28, 2017, 07:53:25 PM
John Bonifield, Supervising Producer of CNN caught out about Russia. Orders coming from the top.
It's all ratings according to them!

Tucker Carlson nails it
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5485241211001/?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 08:54:37 PM
More like f**ker Carlson
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 09:09:58 PM
How many more times are you boys going to come on here breathlessly regurgitating James O'Keefe hyping up his latest "expose"?

Will this finally be the one where he REALLY comes through on the hype?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2017, 10:19:44 PM
Lol....he caused Acorn to be shut down and he caused several people on Hillarys campaign to be fired for recruiting and maybe even paying  rabble rousers to disrupt Trump campaign events.

A lot of people stopped either believing or listening to negative Trump news after that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2017, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 10:19:44 PM
Lol....he caused Acorn to be shut down and he caused several people on Hillarys campaign to be fired for recruiting and maybe even paying  rabble rousers to disrupt Trump campaign events.

A lot of people stopped either believing or listening to negative Trump news after that

Funny you mention Acorn, which investigations subsequently showed had not engaged in any criminal behaviour whatsoever and had been the victims of very selective editing on the part of O'Keefe (as have his other "productions").

Which leads one to conclude that yourself and many of other conservatives who hang on O'Keefe's every word are less interested in justice than political hit-jobs that suit your agenda by targeting, whether rightly or wrongly, the "right" people.

But keep crying in the meantime about the investigations into Trump brought about by legitimate concerns regarding the conduct of people around him with respect to Russia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 11:27:11 PM
explains a few lads in here

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 28, 2017, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 10:19:44 PM
Lol....he caused Acorn to be shut down and he caused several people on Hillarys campaign to be fired for recruiting and maybe even paying  rabble rousers to disrupt Trump campaign events.

A lot of people stopped either believing or listening to negative Trump news after that

Funny you mention Acorn, which investigations subsequently showed had not engaged in any criminal behaviour whatsoever and had been the victims of very selective editing on the part of O'Keefe (as have his other "productions").

Which leads one to conclude that yourself and many of other conservatives who hang on O'Keefe's every word are less interested in justice than political hit-jobs that suit your agenda by targeting, whether rightly or wrongly, the "right" people.

But keep crying in the meantime about the investigations into Trump brought about by legitimate concerns regarding the conduct of people around him with respect to Russia.

CNN is fake news. They've just proven President Trumps point

As for Pelosi and her mental breakdown. PMSL!!

(https://i.imgflip.com/1re03e.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 28, 2017, 11:45:24 PM
and this one is for you j70 ;)

(http://cdn.newsbusters.org/images/2014/August/Democrat_Donkey_Broken.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2017, 12:06:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 10:19:44 PM
Lol....he caused Acorn to be shut down and he caused several people on Hillarys campaign to be fired for recruiting and maybe even paying  rabble rousers to disrupt Trump campaign events.

A lot of people stopped either believing or listening to negative Trump news after that

Funny you mention Acorn, which investigations subsequently showed had not engaged in any criminal behaviour whatsoever and had been the victims of very selective editing on the part of O'Keefe (as have his other "productions").

Which leads one to conclude that yourself and many of other conservatives who hang on O'Keefe's every word are less interested in justice than political hit-jobs that suit your agenda by targeting, whether rightly or wrongly, the "right" people.

But keep crying in the meantime about the investigations into Trump brought about by legitimate concerns regarding the conduct of people around him with respect to Russia.

Doesn't matter....he's just evening up the score for all the unfair coverage Republicans get in the media

I notice you weren't half as concerned when a Democratic operative infiltrated a closed door Republican event and planted a recording device
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 29, 2017, 12:26:54 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 11:27:11 PM
explains a few lads in here

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)
rachel Maddox viewers no doubt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2017, 12:57:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2017, 12:06:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2017, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2017, 10:19:44 PM
Lol....he caused Acorn to be shut down and he caused several people on Hillarys campaign to be fired for recruiting and maybe even paying  rabble rousers to disrupt Trump campaign events.

A lot of people stopped either believing or listening to negative Trump news after that

Funny you mention Acorn, which investigations subsequently showed had not engaged in any criminal behaviour whatsoever and had been the victims of very selective editing on the part of O'Keefe (as have his other "productions").

Which leads one to conclude that yourself and many of other conservatives who hang on O'Keefe's every word are less interested in justice than political hit-jobs that suit your agenda by targeting, whether rightly or wrongly, the "right" people.

But keep crying in the meantime about the investigations into Trump brought about by legitimate concerns regarding the conduct of people around him with respect to Russia.

Doesn't matter....he's just evening up the score for all the unfair coverage Republicans get in the media

I notice you weren't half as concerned when a Democratic operative infiltrated a closed door Republican event and planted a recording device

Hold on a second there. If you concede that O'Keefe is a charlatan, then what does that say about you that you repeatedly hype his stuff here on the gaa board?

You don't even up supposedly unfair coverage with blatant lies, intentionally destroying the reputations of non-public individuals in the process.

Which also, of course, ignores, as usual (do you boys never get tired of this nonsense?), the fact that Fox News is the biggest cable news station, talk radio in the US is almost exclusively right wing, and the likes of the WSJ are massive nationwide papers.

Second, the 47% thing was not subject to selective editing to misrepresent. There is no equivalency whatsoever.

Had I whinged about Obama's "clinging to guns and religion" comments being brought to light (I didn't - I agreed with what he said), then you might have a point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2017, 04:41:44 PM
Trump showing his personal class again this morning in relation to Mika Bryzinski and Joe Scarborough, all because they had the nerve to defend Rex Tillerson.

Even Lindsay Graham and Ben Sasse felt moved to condemn him and talk about the dignity of the office.

Yeah, we know the average Trump supporter loves this stuff, but that doesn't make it defensible or advisable in any shape or form. Those idiots are with him no matter what. In the meantime, he's losing independents all the time.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 29, 2017, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 04:41:44 PM
Trump showing his personal class again this morning in relation to Mika Bryzinski and Joe Scarborough, all because they had the nerve to defend Rex Tillerson.

Even Lindsay Graham and Ben Sasse felt moved to condemn him and talk about the dignity of the office.

Yeah, we know the average Trump supporter loves this stuff, but that doesn't make it defensible or advisable in any shape or form. Those idiots are with him no matter what. In the meantime, he's losing independents all the time.

That tweet was pretty low even for Trump!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 29, 2017, 05:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 04:41:44 PM
Trump showing his personal class again this morning in relation to Mika Bryzinski and Joe Scarborough, all because they had the nerve to defend Rex Tillerson.

Even worse - it was because she made a joke about the size of his hands
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2017, 05:11:25 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 29, 2017, 05:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 04:41:44 PM
Trump showing his personal class again this morning in relation to Mika Bryzinski and Joe Scarborough, all because they had the nerve to defend Rex Tillerson.

Even worse - it was because she made a joke about the size of his hands

I think the "small hands" joke was her response to HIS tweets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2017, 05:25:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2017, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 04:41:44 PM
Trump showing his personal class again this morning in relation to Mika Bryzinski and Joe Scarborough, all because they had the nerve to defend Rex Tillerson.

Even Lindsay Graham and Ben Sasse felt moved to condemn him and talk about the dignity of the office.

Yeah, we know the average Trump supporter loves this stuff, but that doesn't make it defensible or advisable in any shape or form. Those idiots are with him no matter what. In the meantime, he's losing independents all the time.

That tweet was pretty low even for Trump!!!

What I can't figure out is how the President of the United States has the time or energy to even respond to whatever Joe and Mika supposedly said about him. Doesn't he have other more important $hit to be worrying about.  He's definitely got a screw loose



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 29, 2017, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2017, 05:25:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2017, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 04:41:44 PM
Trump showing his personal class again this morning in relation to Mika Bryzinski and Joe Scarborough, all because they had the nerve to defend Rex Tillerson.

Even Lindsay Graham and Ben Sasse felt moved to condemn him and talk about the dignity of the office.

Yeah, we know the average Trump supporter loves this stuff, but that doesn't make it defensible or advisable in any shape or form. Those idiots are with him no matter what. In the meantime, he's losing independents all the time.

That tweet was pretty low even for Trump!!!

What I can't figure out is how the President of the United States has the time or energy to even respond to whatever Joe and Mika supposedly said about him. Doesn't he have other more important $hit to be worrying about.  He's definitely got a screw loose

A big boost to the wife's campaign against online abuse as well. . . beggars belief really!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 29, 2017, 05:30:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 05:11:25 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 29, 2017, 05:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 04:41:44 PM
Trump showing his personal class again this morning in relation to Mika Bryzinski and Joe Scarborough, all because they had the nerve to defend Rex Tillerson.

Even worse - it was because she made a joke about the size of his hands

I think the "small hands" joke was her response to HIS tweets.

She tweeted a small hands picture after - there was something on their show beforehand that set him off - read these and see the video

https://twitter.com/TomNamako/status/880421916477149186
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2017, 05:36:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2017, 05:25:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2017, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 04:41:44 PM
Trump showing his personal class again this morning in relation to Mika Bryzinski and Joe Scarborough, all because they had the nerve to defend Rex Tillerson.

Even Lindsay Graham and Ben Sasse felt moved to condemn him and talk about the dignity of the office.

Yeah, we know the average Trump supporter loves this stuff, but that doesn't make it defensible or advisable in any shape or form. Those idiots are with him no matter what. In the meantime, he's losing independents all the time.

That tweet was pretty low even for Trump!!!

What I can't figure out is how the President of the United States has the time or energy to even respond to whatever Joe and Mika supposedly said about him. Doesn't he have other more important $hit to be worrying about.  He's definitely got a screw loose

I honestly don't know how he gets a wink of sleep, even without the responsibilities and burden of his job.

He is absolutely obsessed with responding to every perceived slight, no matter how trivial. He apparently thinks that coming down like a tonne of bricks on everyone who crosses him will make it stop, or at least show him (in his mind's eye at least) not to be weak.

God help us all when something that really matters and requires a cool head is in play.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 29, 2017, 05:45:52 PM
I see CNN have recruited Elmo from Sesame Street as a spokesperson (spokesmonster?) in their refugee propaganda crusade.
Shame on them for trying to emotionally blackmail little kids into their way of thinking.

I suppose it's the closest CNN have got to actual news in the last few months!!

He better watch out for the ISIS muppets he invites to the US
(https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2017/2-10/BGCcp5kYbD-14.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2017, 05:54:49 PM
Sesame Street, who've been working in refugee camps for months now, send on Elmo to CNN to make the point that young refugee kids are just like kids anywhere.

Yes, that's controversial, outrageous stuff there foxcommander.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on June 29, 2017, 06:10:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 05:54:49 PM
Sesame Street, who've been working in refugee camps for months now, send on Elmo to CNN to make the point that young refugee kids are just like kids anywhere.

Yes, that's controversial, outrageous stuff there foxcommander.

Of course they are

If you are wondering what do do with your kid when school's out for the summer
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DFzNPr1WrgI/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 29, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 08:54:37 PM
More like f**ker Carlson

He makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2017, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 29, 2017, 06:10:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2017, 05:54:49 PM
Sesame Street, who've been working in refugee camps for months now, send on Elmo to CNN to make the point that young refugee kids are just like kids anywhere.

Yes, that's controversial, outrageous stuff there foxcommander.

Of course they are

If you are wondering what do do with your kid when school's out for the summer
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DFzNPr1WrgI/hqdefault.jpg)

So all those refugee children are really just ISIS fighters who haven't been fully formed, is that is?

Its mind-boggling how people can allow their minds to be twisted to dehumanize suffering children after all this time and all the lessons of history.

(http://www.myjewishlearning.com/wp-content/uploads/2003/07/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-N0827-318_KZ_Auschwitz_Ankunft_ungarischer_Juden.jpg)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2017, 08:52:10 PM
Welcome to the sick, twisted world of the conservative mind, where terrorist victims are terrorists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on June 30, 2017, 07:36:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2017, 08:52:10 PM
Welcome to the sick, twisted world of the conservative mind, where terrorist victims are terrorists.

Yes yes quite quite pet, all conservatives think that terrorist victims are terrorists, awzy back to your safe space you absolute horror story!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 30, 2017, 10:14:01 AM
I was at a birthday party yesterday and the parents were talking around a table. Somehow the chat wandered onto hospital experiences. One mother had a complicated broken arm story. Another had a story about a birth that went on for ages. Health is real life. There is no way the GOP can drop 22 million people from healthcare. Health is not optional.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2017, 07:13:30 PM
Indeed. Barry Obama played a blinder with Obamacare. He increased the number of insured. That's a one-way ticket because you can't take away an entitlement without a backlash. Trying to boot the people off their health plans in the name of corporate profits is going to be a vote-loser for the repukelicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2017, 03:58:20 AM
Quote from: stew on June 29, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 08:54:37 PM
More like f**ker Carlson

He makes a lot of sense.

This is a former Irish Republican who used to live in America
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 01, 2017, 11:06:33 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/30/mika-brzezinski-joe-scarborough-donald-trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 01, 2017, 01:29:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2017, 03:58:20 AM
Quote from: stew on June 29, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 08:54:37 PM
More like f**ker Carlson

He makes a lot of sense.

This is a former Irish Republican who used to live in America

Who is a former Irish republican?

You dont know shit!

Here is a wee taste of why i despise the liberal left in America, the liberals are backing black Sudents who want to graduate  on their own, this is celebrating their diversity, it is not seen as divisive or racist at all. Imagine white kids looking to do the same thing?




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2017, 06:25:06 PM
Quote from: stew on July 01, 2017, 01:29:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2017, 03:58:20 AM
Quote from: stew on June 29, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 08:54:37 PM
More like f**ker Carlson

He makes a lot of sense.

This is a former Irish Republican who used to live in America

Who is a former Irish republican?

You dont know shit!

Here is a wee taste of why i despise the liberal left in America, the liberals are backing black Sudents who want to graduate  on their own, this is celebrating their diversity, it is not seen as divisive or racist at all. Imagine white kids looking to do the same thing?

FFS what are you on about? :)

You always post these vage screeds where we're apparently supposed to know what you're talking about!

Details lad!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 01, 2017, 07:26:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2017, 06:25:06 PM
Quote from: stew on July 01, 2017, 01:29:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2017, 03:58:20 AM
Quote from: stew on June 29, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 08:54:37 PM
More like f**ker Carlson

He makes a lot of sense.

This is a former Irish Republican who used to live in America

Who is a former Irish republican?

You dont know shit!

Here is a wee taste of why i despise the liberal left in America, the liberals are backing black Sudents who want to graduate  on their own, this is celebrating their diversity, it is not seen as divisive or racist at all. Imagine white kids looking to do the same thing?

FFS what are you on about? :)

You always post these vage screeds where we're apparently supposed to know what you're talking about!

Details lad!

Since it has been all over social media I would have thought you had read it, that said it is akin to the BLM fuckheads telling non blacks to getting to the back of the protest march, racism is alive and well in American and it is the left that is promoting it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 02, 2017, 12:31:22 PM
Quote from: stew on July 01, 2017, 07:26:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2017, 06:25:06 PM
Quote from: stew on July 01, 2017, 01:29:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2017, 03:58:20 AM
Quote from: stew on June 29, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2017, 08:54:37 PM
More like f**ker Carlson

He makes a lot of sense.

This is a former Irish Republican who used to live in America

Who is a former Irish republican?

You dont know shit!

Here is a wee taste of why i despise the liberal left in America, the liberals are backing black Sudents who want to graduate  on their own, this is celebrating their diversity, it is not seen as divisive or racist at all. Imagine white kids looking to do the same thing?

FFS what are you on about? :)

You always post these vage screeds where we're apparently supposed to know what you're talking about!

Details lad!

Since it has been all over social media I would have thought you had read it, that said it is akin to the BLM fuckheads telling non blacks to getting to the back of the protest march, racism is alive and well in American and it is the left that is promoting it.

No, still don't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 02, 2017, 03:35:08 PM
Maybe they are protecting the non blacks?  If shit is going to happen it will be more likely to start at the front of the march?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 02, 2017, 08:04:30 PM
I think healthcare will destroy the GOP. It is the ultimate 1% versus the people issue
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/07/13/putting-profits-ahead-of-patients/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 03, 2017, 01:56:46 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 02, 2017, 08:04:30 PM
I think healthcare will destroy the GOP. It is the ultimate 1% versus the people issue
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/07/13/putting-profits-ahead-of-patients/

I love that you buy into the liberal figures your media throws out.

Obamacare is still the gold standard and it is fucked, thank you Barak )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 03, 2017, 03:28:56 AM
Stew,
What's you improvement over Obama care? If you can come up with something your Republican co-ideologists can get behind you're on to a winner. Your fortune is made.
Nope didn't think so...

And your assinine comments on racism in America
Quoteracism is alive and well in American and it is the left that is promoting it.
your complete and utter lack of comprehension of the left, socialism and the associated ideology would be embarrassing if you weren't already comfortable with admitting it. Marx was quite clear that racism was a tool for keeping the working class down and segregated. Hasn't changed, won't change liberal, left and socialist are not the insults you believe them to be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 03, 2017, 08:14:20 AM
Quote from: stew on July 03, 2017, 01:56:46 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 02, 2017, 08:04:30 PM
I think healthcare will destroy the GOP. It is the ultimate 1% versus the people issue
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/07/13/putting-profits-ahead-of-patients/

I love that you buy into the liberal figures your media throws out.

Obamacare is still the gold standard and it is fucked, thank you Barak )
Stew, health care is 17% of gdp growing at 4% per year. If  it was a credit card you would dump it

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 03, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: stew on July 03, 2017, 01:56:46 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 02, 2017, 08:04:30 PM
I think healthcare will destroy the GOP. It is the ultimate 1% versus the people issue
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/07/13/putting-profits-ahead-of-patients/

I love that you buy into the liberal figures your media throws out.

Obamacare is still the gold standard and it is fucked, thank you Barak )

Did you even read that piece?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 05, 2017, 02:52:54 PM
Trump can't save you from yourself it seems . . .

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/a-guy-accidentally-shot-himself-after-a-fake-news-story?bftwnews&utm_term=.kgM8xKX4O#.xy1NolX8q
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 05, 2017, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 05, 2017, 02:52:54 PM
Trump can't save you from yourself it seems . . .

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/a-guy-accidentally-shot-himself-after-a-fake-news-story?bftwnews&utm_term=.kgM8xKX4O#.xy1NolX8q (https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/a-guy-accidentally-shot-himself-after-a-fake-news-story?bftwnews&utm_term=.kgM8xKX4O#.xy1NolX8q)

Ha ha.

Came across this (https://youtu.be/f9cgm1B7Rew) (worth watching it all but especially from 2:50). Alex Jones's Infowars, in case anyone doesn't know, is the source Trump has referenced for some of his most ridiculous suggestions and conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 05, 2017, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 05, 2017, 02:52:54 PM
Trump can't save you from yourself it seems . . .

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/a-guy-accidentally-shot-himself-after-a-fake-news-story?bftwnews&utm_term=.kgM8xKX4O#.xy1NolX8q

Aside from the idiot who shot himself, this is not the first time these morons have shown up to counter protest a non-existent protest after one of their own hoaxed them. There was one in Texas a few weeks back, similarly concerning Confederate monuments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 04:28:59 PM
d**khead Donnie Junior  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 11, 2017, 07:30:44 PM
To show you how screwed the US political system is, trump jr had his email correspondence ref a meeting with Russians during the campaign:

The right : no big deal

The left : Treason

The middle: well good question, cos nobody speaks to the middle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 11, 2017, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 11, 2017, 07:30:44 PM
To show you how screwed the US political system is, trump jr had his email correspondence ref a meeting with Russians during the campaign:

The right : no big deal

The left : Treason

The middle: well good question, cos nobody speaks to the middle

This may be the first of the dominos


(Unless of course it was a dirty trick initiated by the Democrats to ensnare him)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 11, 2017, 08:39:45 PM
Apparently the Trump internet thinks this is something to celebrate because he beat the NYT to breaking the story. Pass the popcorn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 11, 2017, 09:54:31 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 11, 2017, 07:30:44 PM
To show you how screwed the US political system is, trump jr had his email correspondence ref a meeting with Russians during the campaign:

The right : no big deal

The left : Treason

The middle: well good question, cos nobody speaks to the middle

So you dont think Clinton should be sanctioned gor her role in the e.ail scandal then ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 12, 2017, 01:32:38 AM
Stew,
What's that got to do with the price of bacon in Denmark?

I say the system is screwed and there's no middle ground, and you say, but what about Clinton ?

Kind of proving the point really.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 12, 2017, 09:48:01 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 12, 2017, 01:32:38 AM
Stew,
What's that got to do with the price of bacon in Denmark?

I say the system is screwed and there's no middle ground, and you say, but what about Clinton ?

Kind of proving the point really.

Yeah vintage 'conservative'. Clinton has already been investigated and nothing found so what the f**k are they on about?

Also she's not the President now so why do people even care about her? Have Kerry/Romney/McCain had as much scrutiny having lost a Presidential race than Clinton? She's irrelevant now and the only reason she is being mentioned is deflection tactics because the Trumps are up to their necks!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 12, 2017, 05:39:34 PM
Yes, quite. Let's investigate Goldwater while we're at it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 12, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

It's a Clinton set-up?

Are conservatives EVER responsible for anything?? ;D

And let's say, for the sake of amusement, that it WAS a set-up?

How does that excuse Trump Jr, Manafort's and Kushner's eager rush to meet with what they thought was a Russian government operative with damaging dirt on Clinton?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 12, 2017, 10:29:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

It's a Clinton set-up?

Are conservatives EVER responsible for anything?? ;D

And let's say, for the sake of amusement, that it WAS a set-up?

How does that excuse Trump Jr, Manafort's and Kushner's eager rush to meet with what they thought was a Russian government operative with damaging dirt on Clinton?

BENGHAZI. . . and . . . EMAILS!!!

You damn liberals don't even have a clue how the world works Trump will save us!!

MAGA!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 12, 2017, 11:32:36 PM
Hillary did something shady. Then she told the Russians about it. Then she told the Russians to have a meeting with Trump Junior about it. All to undermine Trump after he won the future election. Don't you see?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 13, 2017, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

It's a Clinton set-up?

Are conservatives EVER responsible for anything?? ;D

And let's say, for the sake of amusement, that it WAS a set-up?

How does that excuse Trump Jr, Manafort's and Kushner's eager rush to meet with what they thought was a Russian government operative with damaging dirt on Clinton?

Oh it won't excuse anything....they, especially Manafort, should have run a mile and reported it immediately to the FBI.

On the other hand, if what I am saying is true.....it's going to look very bad for the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 13, 2017, 01:02:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

It's a Clinton set-up?

Are conservatives EVER responsible for anything?? ;D

And let's say, for the sake of amusement, that it WAS a set-up?

How does that excuse Trump Jr, Manafort's and Kushner's eager rush to meet with what they thought was a Russian government operative with damaging dirt on Clinton?

Oh it won't excuse anything....they, especially Manafort, should have run a mile and reported it immediately to the FBI.

On the other hand, if what I am saying is true.....it's going to look very bad for the Democrats

Out of (morbid) curiosity, what indication do you have that what you say is even remotely possibly true?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 13, 2017, 01:22:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 01:02:35 AM

Out of (morbid) curiosity, what indication do you have that what you say is even remotely possibly true?

Voices in his head.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on July 13, 2017, 02:37:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

It's a Clinton set-up?

Are conservatives EVER responsible for anything?? ;D

And let's say, for the sake of amusement, that it WAS a set-up?

How does that excuse Trump Jr, Manafort's and Kushner's eager rush to meet with what they thought was a Russian government operative with damaging dirt on Clinton?

Oh it won't excuse anything....they, especially Manafort, should have run a mile and reported it immediately to the FBI.

On the other hand, if what I am saying is true.....it's going to look very bad for the Democrats

They might have wanted to spring their cunning trap a wee bit sooner no? Like before the election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 13, 2017, 02:44:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 01:02:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

It's a Clinton set-up?

Are conservatives EVER responsible for anything?? ;D

And let's say, for the sake of amusement, that it WAS a set-up?

How does that excuse Trump Jr, Manafort's and Kushner's eager rush to meet with what they thought was a Russian government operative with damaging dirt on Clinton?

Oh it won't excuse anything....they, especially Manafort, should have run a mile and reported it immediately to the FBI.

On the other hand, if what I am saying is true.....it's going to look very bad for the Democrats

Out of (morbid) curiosity, what indication do you have that what you say is even remotely possibly true?

There is a possibility (albeit low) that it was a DNC dirty trick.....I subscribe to a
lot of blogs and Facebook feeds and saw it first yesterday. Over the past day it has been repeated
by some more mainstream and reliable commentators which is often a sign that there may be something behind it. 

If I told you a year ago that the DNC was sending rabble rousers to cause trouble at Trump
rallies you would have had a similar level of skepticism....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 13, 2017, 07:21:01 AM
Donny Trump jnr deserves to be investigated for his so called 'treason' when he met with a Russian govt official prior to his da getting the big job.

Clinton deserves the same treatment for Benghazi, the email scandals, the selling of uranium to the Russians and getting 145 million in pay for play kickbacks, the rigged election that cost Bernie Saunders a fair crack at taking her down and much much more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 13, 2017, 09:12:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 02:44:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 01:02:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

It's a Clinton set-up?

Are conservatives EVER responsible for anything?? ;D

And let's say, for the sake of amusement, that it WAS a set-up?

How does that excuse Trump Jr, Manafort's and Kushner's eager rush to meet with what they thought was a Russian government operative with damaging dirt on Clinton?

Oh it won't excuse anything....they, especially Manafort, should have run a mile and reported it immediately to the FBI.

On the other hand, if what I am saying is true.....it's going to look very bad for the Democrats

Out of (morbid) curiosity, what indication do you have that what you say is even remotely possibly true?

There is a possibility (albeit low) that it was a DNC dirty trick.....I subscribe to a
lot of blogs and Facebook feeds and saw it first yesterday. Over the past day it has been repeated
by some more mainstream and reliable commentators which is often a sign that there may be something behind it. 

If I told you a year ago that the DNC was sending rabble rousers to cause trouble at Trump
rallies you would have had a similar level of skepticism....

So baseless speculation on social media that has been picked up by mainstream media people with an agenda then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 13, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 07:21:01 AM
Donny Trump jnr deserves to be investigated for his so called 'treason' when he met with a Russian govt official prior to his da getting the big job.

Clinton deserves the same treatment for Benghazi, the email scandals, the selling of uranium to the Russians and getting 145 million in pay for play kickbacks, the rigged election that cost Bernie Saunders a fair crack at taking her down and much much more.

How many congressional investigations into Benghazi are enough stew?

Or do you want them to keep going until they get the result you and the insane element of the right wing want? Same with the emails??

Why is an investigation of the "treatment" of Bernie warranted? What laws/regs are in play?

And outside of the paranoid conspiracy theorizing world of the right wing, what is controversial or extraordinary about the other stuff?

You forgot Vince Foster by the way! ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 13, 2017, 10:22:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 09:12:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 02:44:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 01:02:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

It's a Clinton set-up?

Are conservatives EVER responsible for anything?? ;D

And let's say, for the sake of amusement, that it WAS a set-up?

How does that excuse Trump Jr, Manafort's and Kushner's eager rush to meet with what they thought was a Russian government operative with damaging dirt on Clinton?

Oh it won't excuse anything....they, especially Manafort, should have run a mile and reported it immediately to the FBI.

On the other hand, if what I am saying is true.....it's going to look very bad for the Democrats

Out of (morbid) curiosity, what indication do you have that what you say is even remotely possibly true?

There is a possibility (albeit low) that it was a DNC dirty trick.....I subscribe to a
lot of blogs and Facebook feeds and saw it first yesterday. Over the past day it has been repeated
by some more mainstream and reliable commentators which is often a sign that there may be something behind it. 

If I told you a year ago that the DNC was sending rabble rousers to cause trouble at Trump
rallies you would have had a similar level of skepticism....

So baseless speculation on social media that has been picked up by mainstream media people with an agenda then?

As I've said a million times, believe whatever you want, but don't be surprised if there's more to this than meets the eye
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 13, 2017, 10:47:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 10:22:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 09:12:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 02:44:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 01:02:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

It's a Clinton set-up?

Are conservatives EVER responsible for anything?? ;D

And let's say, for the sake of amusement, that it WAS a set-up?

How does that excuse Trump Jr, Manafort's and Kushner's eager rush to meet with what they thought was a Russian government operative with damaging dirt on Clinton?

Oh it won't excuse anything....they, especially Manafort, should have run a mile and reported it immediately to the FBI.

On the other hand, if what I am saying is true.....it's going to look very bad for the Democrats

Out of (morbid) curiosity, what indication do you have that what you say is even remotely possibly true?

There is a possibility (albeit low) that it was a DNC dirty trick.....I subscribe to a
lot of blogs and Facebook feeds and saw it first yesterday. Over the past day it has been repeated
by some more mainstream and reliable commentators which is often a sign that there may be something behind it. 

If I told you a year ago that the DNC was sending rabble rousers to cause trouble at Trump
rallies you would have had a similar level of skepticism....

So baseless speculation on social media that has been picked up by mainstream media people with an agenda then?

As I've said a million times, believe whatever you want, but don't be surprised if there's more to this than meets the eye

Come on, you're just spreading baseless conspiracy theories to deflect!

Maybe it was O'Keefe who "set it up"! Shame that they all took the bait! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 13, 2017, 11:16:50 AM
O Keefe shut down Acorn, made Planned Parenthood change their practices and caused several top level Democratic consultants to get fired....mock him at your peril
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 13, 2017, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 13, 2017, 11:16:50 AM
O Keefe shut down Acorn, made Planned Parenthood change their practices and caused several top level Democratic consultants to get fired....mock him at your peril

Why, he is coming for ME next??   ;D

Just because the GOP eat up all his bullshit for political reasons and the weak kneed Dems didn't know what they were dealing with at the time of Acorn and so meekly acquiesced in the face of the "outrage", doesn't make him legitimate or honest.

Besides, I wasn't mocking O'Keefe, per se, in that comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 13, 2017, 04:24:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 07:21:01 AM
Donny Trump jnr deserves to be investigated for his so called 'treason' when he met with a Russian govt official prior to his da getting the big job.

Clinton deserves the same treatment for Benghazi, the email scandals, the selling of uranium to the Russians and getting 145 million in pay for play kickbacks, the rigged election that cost Bernie Saunders a fair crack at taking her down and much much more.

How many congressional investigations into Benghazi are enough stew?

Or do you want them to keep going until they get the result you and the insane element of the right wing want? Same with the emails??

Why is an investigation of the "treatment" of Bernie warranted? What laws/regs are in play?

And outside of the paranoid conspiracy theorizing world of the right wing, what is controversial or extraordinary about the other stuff?

You forgot Vince Foster by the way! ;)

I forgot nothing, it would take a year to post every shady deal/decision Clinton was involved in, she is bullet proof.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 13, 2017, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 04:24:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 07:21:01 AM
Donny Trump jnr deserves to be investigated for his so called 'treason' when he met with a Russian govt official prior to his da getting the big job.

Clinton deserves the same treatment for Benghazi, the email scandals, the selling of uranium to the Russians and getting 145 million in pay for play kickbacks, the rigged election that cost Bernie Saunders a fair crack at taking her down and much much more.

How many congressional investigations into Benghazi are enough stew?

Or do you want them to keep going until they get the result you and the insane element of the right wing want? Same with the emails??

Why is an investigation of the "treatment" of Bernie warranted? What laws/regs are in play?

And outside of the paranoid conspiracy theorizing world of the right wing, what is controversial or extraordinary about the other stuff?

You forgot Vince Foster by the way! ;)

I forgot nothing, it would take a year to post every shady deal/decision Clinton was involved in, she is bullet proof.

Yes, the right wing whack jobs are prolific and creative in their conspiracy theorizing, that's for sure!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 13, 2017, 06:07:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 04:24:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 07:21:01 AM
Donny Trump jnr deserves to be investigated for his so called 'treason' when he met with a Russian govt official prior to his da getting the big job.

Clinton deserves the same treatment for Benghazi, the email scandals, the selling of uranium to the Russians and getting 145 million in pay for play kickbacks, the rigged election that cost Bernie Saunders a fair crack at taking her down and much much more.

How many congressional investigations into Benghazi are enough stew?

Or do you want them to keep going until they get the result you and the insane element of the right wing want? Same with the emails??

Why is an investigation of the "treatment" of Bernie warranted? What laws/regs are in play?

And outside of the paranoid conspiracy theorizing world of the right wing, what is controversial or extraordinary about the other stuff?

You forgot Vince Foster by the way! ;)

I forgot nothing, it would take a year to post every shady deal/decision Clinton was involved in, she is bullet proof.

Yes, the right wing whack jobs are prolific and creative in their conspiracy theorizing, that's for sure!  ;D

And the left wing nuts are screaming about treason ffs, donnie takes a meeting with a russian and suddenly it is an act of treason, the left in America is a mess, is devoid of leadership and morally bankrupt.

Not one word on here about a mother of three being gunned down performing her duty as one of NYC's finest, the Mayor was spot on when he asked were the celebrities are and why they are not protesting this cowardly attack.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 13, 2017, 07:26:27 PM
The US right has its own version of reality.
Nobody else in the world believes climate change is a myth, for example.
Or that trump is competent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 13, 2017, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 13, 2017, 07:26:27 PM
The US right has its own version of reality.
Nobody else in the world believes climate change is a myth, for example.
Or that trump is competent.

Really Dr Freud?

Climate change is very real and the American people chose an incompetent over a serial liar and warmonger you were pulling for  ) 

By
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 13, 2017, 08:37:43 PM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 06:07:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 04:24:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 07:21:01 AM
Donny Trump jnr deserves to be investigated for his so called 'treason' when he met with a Russian govt official prior to his da getting the big job.

Clinton deserves the same treatment for Benghazi, the email scandals, the selling of uranium to the Russians and getting 145 million in pay for play kickbacks, the rigged election that cost Bernie Saunders a fair crack at taking her down and much much more.

How many congressional investigations into Benghazi are enough stew?

Or do you want them to keep going until they get the result you and the insane element of the right wing want? Same with the emails??

Why is an investigation of the "treatment" of Bernie warranted? What laws/regs are in play?

And outside of the paranoid conspiracy theorizing world of the right wing, what is controversial or extraordinary about the other stuff?

You forgot Vince Foster by the way! ;)

I forgot nothing, it would take a year to post every shady deal/decision Clinton was involved in, she is bullet proof.

Yes, the right wing whack jobs are prolific and creative in their conspiracy theorizing, that's for sure!  ;D

And the left wing nuts are screaming about treason ffs, donnie takes a meeting with a russian and suddenly it is an act of treason, the left in America is a mess, is devoid of leadership and morally bankrupt.

Not one word on here about a mother of three being gunned down performing her duty as one of NYC's finest, the Mayor was spot on when he asked were the celebrities are and why they are not protesting this cowardly attack.

"Donnie meets with a Russian..."! Sure is that all that was going on stew! Casual, every day meeting with what he thought was an agent of a hostile foreign government with dirty secrets to sell! ;D

The treason rhetoric may be overblown and (for now) legally inaccurate, but any attempt to equate such hype with the paranoid delusion the gullible right specializes in is just ludicrous and dishonest.

As for that poor NYPD officer, there was nothing stopping yourself posting on it, was there?

I guess no one else really saw it as a political issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 13, 2017, 08:51:27 PM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 13, 2017, 07:26:27 PM
The US right has its own version of reality.
Nobody else in the world believes climate change is a myth, for example.
Or that trump is competent.

Really Dr Freud?

Climate change is very real and the American people chose an incompetent over a serial liar and warmonger you were pulling for  ) 

By
I thought the 2 of them were useless
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 14, 2017, 05:50:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 08:37:43 PM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 06:07:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 04:24:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 13, 2017, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: stew on July 13, 2017, 07:21:01 AM
Donny Trump jnr deserves to be investigated for his so called 'treason' when he met with a Russian govt official prior to his da getting the big job.

Clinton deserves the same treatment for Benghazi, the email scandals, the selling of uranium to the Russians and getting 145 million in pay for play kickbacks, the rigged election that cost Bernie Saunders a fair crack at taking her down and much much more.

How many congressional investigations into Benghazi are enough stew?

Or do you want them to keep going until they get the result you and the insane element of the right wing want? Same with the emails??

Why is an investigation of the "treatment" of Bernie warranted? What laws/regs are in play?

And outside of the paranoid conspiracy theorizing world of the right wing, what is controversial or extraordinary about the other stuff?

You forgot Vince Foster by the way! ;)

I forgot nothing, it would take a year to post every shady deal/decision Clinton was involved in, she is bullet proof.

Yes, the right wing whack jobs are prolific and creative in their conspiracy theorizing, that's for sure!  ;D

And the left wing nuts are screaming about treason ffs, donnie takes a meeting with a russian and suddenly it is an act of treason, the left in America is a mess, is devoid of leadership and morally bankrupt.

Not one word on here about a mother of three being gunned down performing her duty as one of NYC's finest, the Mayor was spot on when he asked were the celebrities are and why they are not protesting this cowardly attack.

"Donnie meets with a Russian..."! Sure is that all that was going on stew! Casual, every day meeting with what he thought was an agent of a hostile foreign government with dirty secrets to sell! ;D

The treason rhetoric may be overblown and (for now) legally inaccurate, but any attempt to equate such hype with the paranoid delusion the gullible right specializes in is just ludicrous and dishonest.

As for that poor NYPD officer, there was nothing stopping yourself posting on it, was there?

I guess no one else really saw it as a political issue.

There is no point posting about it on here, it would  have ended up her own fault, its a bit.like tge documentary making of a murderer, you all watched it, became experts overnight and after the furor died down you collectively did not give a shit anymore.

Treason is never going to stick here and neither should it, it shoes how low the left has gotten, Clinton should gave been tried for treason as should Cheney, nit Donny junior.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 14, 2017, 10:12:27 AM
Stew, how in the name of Jesus could some deranged lowlife marching up to the door of a police truck and, without any warning, shooting that poor woman in the head, ever be deemed her own fault?

You're projecting what you want us to be, not what we are.

As for Trump and collusion, we will see how it ends up. For all the cries of fake news and "nothing to see here!", they're sure a "forgetful" bunch when it comes to meetings with Russians and have now been caught with their trousers down.

I don't know what Clinton or Cheney did that could lead to treason charges. You will have to elaborate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 14, 2017, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2017, 10:12:27 AM
Stew, how in the name of Jesus could some deranged lowlife marching up to the door of a police truck and, without any warning, shooting that poor woman in the head, ever be deemed her own fault?

You're projecting what you want us to be, not what we are.

As for Trump and collusion, we will see how it ends up. For all the cries of fake news and "nothing to see here!", they're sure a "forgetful" bunch when it comes to meetings with Russians and have now been caught with their trousers down.

I don't know what Clinton or Cheney did that could lead to treason charges. You will have to elaborate.

Well bot were active in wartime which is huge when you consider that Haliburton benefitted greatly when Cheney was in office and he was  main man in the outfit at the time, as for Clinton, well she was deeply involved in pay for play and got four Americans murdered despite being told hundreds of times by her main man in a volatile area that they needed to beef us security, she rigged an election to benefit herself and maaged to lessen the USA at every farts turn, she is an odious turd that needs to be eradicated asap from the American political scene!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 14, 2017, 09:36:03 PM
Quote from: stew on July 14, 2017, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2017, 10:12:27 AM
Stew, how in the name of Jesus could some deranged lowlife marching up to the door of a police truck and, without any warning, shooting that poor woman in the head, ever be deemed her own fault?

You're projecting what you want us to be, not what we are.

As for Trump and collusion, we will see how it ends up. For all the cries of fake news and "nothing to see here!", they're sure a "forgetful" bunch when it comes to meetings with Russians and have now been caught with their trousers down.

I don't know what Clinton or Cheney did that could lead to treason charges. You will have to elaborate.

Well bot were active in wartime which is huge when you consider that Haliburton benefitted greatly when Cheney was in office and he was  main man in the outfit at the time, as for Clinton, well she was deeply involved in pay for play and got four Americans murdered despite being told hundreds of times by her main man in a volatile area that they needed to beef us security, she rigged an election to benefit herself and maaged to lessen the USA at every farts turn, she is an odious turd that needs to be eradicated asap from the American political scene!

So you ARE looking for the Benghazi investigations to keep cloning until one gives you the result you want!!

And how did she rig the election?

I voted in the Dem primary. I don't remember anything untoward. I don't remember Bernie being suppressed or not getting his message out.

And given your distaste for "pay for play", I take it you're against the Citizens United decision and want rid of dark money and SuperPACs and would like to see proper campaign finance reform? You think the NRA and the oil and coal companies own the GOP for free?

I don't see how Cheney could be guilty of treason because his former company cashed in. He didn't sell secrets to the Russians or Al Qaida or take up arms against the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 18, 2017, 05:50:43 AM
More Republicans defect, looks like ACA is safe for another wee while. Good news for 24million and the economy, bad news for self employed middle and upper middle class who mostly voted Republican.

Btw health care system still broken
Like tax
Education
Infrastructure
Lobbying
Political finance
Immigration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 18, 2017, 10:19:20 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 18, 2017, 05:50:43 AM
More Republicans defect, looks like ACA is safe for another wee while. Good news for 24million and the economy, bad news for self employed middle and upper middle class who mostly voted Republican.

Btw health care system still broken
Like tax
Education
Infrastructure
Lobbying
Political finance
Immigration

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/17/republican-health-bill-senators-oppose-vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 18, 2017, 10:28:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2017, 09:36:03 PM
Quote from: stew on July 14, 2017, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2017, 10:12:27 AM
Stew, how in the name of Jesus could some deranged lowlife marching up to the door of a police truck and, without any warning, shooting that poor woman in the head, ever be deemed her own fault?

You're projecting what you want us to be, not what we are.

As for Trump and collusion, we will see how it ends up. For all the cries of fake news and "nothing to see here!", they're sure a "forgetful" bunch when it comes to meetings with Russians and have now been caught with their trousers down.

I don't know what Clinton or Cheney did that could lead to treason charges. You will have to elaborate.

Well bot were active in wartime which is huge when you consider that Haliburton benefitted greatly when Cheney was in office and he was  main man in the outfit at the time, as for Clinton, well she was deeply involved in pay for play and got four Americans murdered despite being told hundreds of times by her main man in a volatile area that they needed to beef us security, she rigged an election to benefit herself and maaged to lessen the USA at every farts turn, she is an odious turd that needs to be eradicated asap from the American political scene!

So you ARE looking for the Benghazi investigations to keep cloning until one gives you the result you want!!

And how did she rig the election?

I voted in the Dem primary. I don't remember anything untoward. I don't remember Bernie being suppressed or not getting his message out.

And given your distaste for "pay for play", I take it you're against the Citizens United decision and want rid of dark money and SuperPACs and would like to see proper campaign finance reform? You think the NRA and the oil and coal companies own the GOP for free?

I don't see how Cheney could be guilty of treason because his former company cashed in. He didn't sell secrets to the Russians or Al Qaida or take up arms against the US.

Donny jnr was not a politican, there is very little here, far less thanClinton selling 20 percent of the countrys uranium to the Russians ad a magical 145 million dollars showing up for her hubbys foundation.

I see now Bernie has got in on the act, just when you think there is one decent human being out there in office they prove you wrong!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 18, 2017, 11:53:27 AM
Quote from: stew on July 18, 2017, 10:28:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2017, 09:36:03 PM
Quote from: stew on July 14, 2017, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2017, 10:12:27 AM
Stew, how in the name of Jesus could some deranged lowlife marching up to the door of a police truck and, without any warning, shooting that poor woman in the head, ever be deemed her own fault?

You're projecting what you want us to be, not what we are.

As for Trump and collusion, we will see how it ends up. For all the cries of fake news and "nothing to see here!", they're sure a "forgetful" bunch when it comes to meetings with Russians and have now been caught with their trousers down.

I don't know what Clinton or Cheney did that could lead to treason charges. You will have to elaborate.

Well bot were active in wartime which is huge when you consider that Haliburton benefitted greatly when Cheney was in office and he was  main man in the outfit at the time, as for Clinton, well she was deeply involved in pay for play and got four Americans murdered despite being told hundreds of times by her main man in a volatile area that they needed to beef us security, she rigged an election to benefit herself and maaged to lessen the USA at every farts turn, she is an odious turd that needs to be eradicated asap from the American political scene!

So you ARE looking for the Benghazi investigations to keep cloning until one gives you the result you want!!

And how did she rig the election?

I voted in the Dem primary. I don't remember anything untoward. I don't remember Bernie being suppressed or not getting his message out.

And given your distaste for "pay for play", I take it you're against the Citizens United decision and want rid of dark money and SuperPACs and would like to see proper campaign finance reform? You think the NRA and the oil and coal companies own the GOP for free?

I don't see how Cheney could be guilty of treason because his former company cashed in. He didn't sell secrets to the Russians or Al Qaida or take up arms against the US.

Donny jnr was not a politican, there is very little here, far less thanClinton selling 20 percent of the countrys uranium to the Russians ad a magical 145 million dollars showing up for her hubbys foundation.

I see now Bernie has got in on the act, just when you think there is one decent human being out there in office they prove you wrong!

Why don't you detail for us all how Hillary "sold" the uranium to the Russians? Perhaps include a timeline and who was involved and outline how much power she had in this affair.

WTF does Donny Jr not being a politician have to do with anything?

I'll await your piece to educate us on the uranium thing before commenting on whether there is less there in Donny's case.

One thing you can't argue is that he and his pals went into the meeting thinking they were getting dirt direct from the Kremlin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 18, 2017, 11:57:15 AM
So Trumpcare has gone down in flames (again!) in the Senate.

Now they want to try a repeal-only option, with a two year delay to come up with a replacement.

Good luck getting that repeal passed, Mitch!

You've only had seven years (and counting) to come up with a replacement so far! No one will be skeptical! The healthcare industry, insurance industry and the public especially.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 18, 2017, 12:25:57 PM
They have done nothing since January
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 18, 2017, 04:56:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 18, 2017, 12:25:57 PM
They have done nothing since January

I love that your head is up your ass and under a rock at the same time. )

Go team Hillary )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 18, 2017, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: stew on July 18, 2017, 04:56:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 18, 2017, 12:25:57 PM
They have done nothing since January

I love that your head is up your ass and under a rock at the same time. )

Go team Hillary )
Mnuchin promised 3-4% growth driven by tax reform.
Have you see the tax reform anywhere, Stew ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2017, 06:07:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 18, 2017, 05:01:04 PM
Mnuchin promised 3-4% growth driven by tax reform.
Have you see the tax reform anywhere, Stew ?

We've seen it in Kansas where it's been a miserable failure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 18, 2017, 08:11:29 PM
Trump is a joke

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/18/upshot/trump-seems-much-better-at-branding-opponents-than-at-marketing-policies.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2017, 11:54:43 PM
How many times did they vote to repeal Obamacare? They had 7 years to do their homework and get a replacement ready. Now here they are like a schoolkid on a Sunday night hearing the Glenroe music and remembering they haven't done a thing. The voters had better come out in force in the mid-terms and consign these cretins to the scrapheap.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 19, 2017, 12:23:11 AM
They should have  let Obamacare implode and force the Democrats to the negotiating table.

Once you give people something it's almost impossible to take it away.

Once you   ring in a new tax it's impossible to roll iit back without it being mislabeled as a tax cut for the wealthy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on July 19, 2017, 12:26:41 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2017, 11:54:43 PM
How many times did they vote to repeal Obamacare? They had 7 years to do their homework and get a replacement ready. Now here they are like a schoolkid on a Sunday night hearing the Glenroe music and remembering they haven't done a thing. The voters had better come out in force in the mid-terms and consign these cretins to the scrapheap.

Both you and seafoid are correct. Obamacare was a well thought out successful healthcare plan.
Never mind that a good chunk of people who voted for it never read it.
What will happen in a year or so, when individuals on Obamacare have to wait a few days or weeks to see a doctor ?. A slew of HMO's have already pulled out of a number of states.

Healthcare is complex and I believe that all people should be able to get medical care, but a plan that was based on healthy people signing up for it has obviously failed miserably.
You guys should report back with an update in a year or eighteen months.

A lot of people still cannot accept the election result last November. The democratic machine let what one could argue was a flawed candidate represent them.

Btw, markets are up 15% since election, consumer confidence is high and economy is doing ok.
Given that participation by US households in the stock market is close to 80% either through individual investing, 401k plans or pension funds. People feel better about their economic situation.

I heard something on radio last week and it stuck with me.
"Democrats are pro worker, but anti business"

Reality is that does not work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2017, 12:29:45 AM
As Chuck Schumer said recently

They can't write policies that make sense, they can't implement policy, they can't get their stories straight and they can't close the deal.

As Cornell West observed, Trump is
not in touch with reality.  He is an expression of spiritual blackout. He represents the eclipse of Integrity,  honesty and decency .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2017, 12:32:22 AM
Obamacare's main flaw is that there was no limit on cost inflation, following intense lobbying . The US health system will have to crash before it becomes sustainable. It is one of the main ways the 1% screws the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 19, 2017, 12:53:02 AM
Obamacare and later Sanders' campaign have changed the conversation. Americans are coming to realise that health care is a right in a developed country and it's not just another business like fast food or drive-through oil-changes. They're coming to realise that they've been had. They're coming to realise that they've had "death panels" all along in the form of profit-making insurance companies who value their bottom line more than your life. They're coming to realise that the US is the only developed country in the world that doesn't guarantee health care to all of its citizens. They're coming to realise that they've been conditioned into thinking that it's morally acceptable for people to be left stranded with no coverage, or okay for people to go bankrupt because they get sick.

All this talk about "wait for Obamacare to implode," whatever that's supposed to mean. It's been in place for a while now. Hasn't "imploded" yet, has it? The only places where it's not doing so well is where Republican states have tried to deliberately sabotage it for ideological reasons rather than help their people to get coverage.

It's only a matter of time before single payer becomes the next step on the road to completing reform.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 19, 2017, 02:17:55 AM
Don't  take my word for it!

Bill Clinton described it as "the craziest thing ever, people humping it 60 hours a week.... their premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 19, 2017, 06:19:51 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 19, 2017, 12:26:41 AM
Healthcare is complex and I believe that all people should be able to get medical care, but a plan that was based on healthy people signing up for it has obviously failed miserably.
You guys should report back with an update in a year or eighteen months.

A lot of people still cannot accept the election result last November. The democratic machine let what one could argue was a flawed candidate represent them.

Btw, markets are up 15% since election, consumer confidence is high and economy is doing ok.
Given that participation by US households in the stock market is close to 80% either through individual investing, 401k plans or pension funds. People feel better about their economic situation.

I heard something on radio last week and it stuck with me.
"Democrats are pro worker, but anti business"

Reality is that does not work.

Joe,
"markets are up 15% since election" talk to me about this- which fundamental change do you think is driving this change- is it due to the really healthy economic plans of the new president. Is it because make america great again? is it the coal mining business roaring back to life?
Bollocks.
Economy is doing ok? really on what measurement? is doing hugely ok?
was there a "market participation"  uptick since the new president came onboard? Did a huge slew of the population say, you know what let's buy into equity? Is that what you mean by the stock market? do you mean listed US traded equities. Funny that news seems to have escaped unheard- or unnoticed.
These people who feel better about their economic situation that you reference- who are they- what percentage of the population do they make up? Is this your personal documented evidence? Gut feel, OuiJa Board. or dumb uneducated folks unencumbered by facts, maths or a basic grasp of economic theory...
Come back in 18 months? what if I died of a pre-existing condition? what update are you expecting. True succeeds with Healthcare reform? Or is it "republican intransigence and corporate whoring to blame in initial ACA plan updates failure to succeed..."
as for this
QuoteI heard something on radio last week and it stuck with me.
"Democrats are pro worker, but anti business"
Reality is that does not work.
really- any economic consideration that I am aware of flies in the face of your reality- talk to me about data, cause and effect, models and oh "gut feel"

Healthcare is complex FFS are you kidding me- thanks Donald. Read a book get a clue please don't embarrass yourself (or the whole nation) in public with your mathematical and economic illiteracy. Read a book. Sometimes when you look at a post and think- oh I should comment on that - maybe Dunning Kruger .

I mean, like, "obviously"

"what one could argue was a flawed candidate "

I heard something on the radio last week, "total political failure by both parties in the united states leads to large orange with brain of a 5 year old leading country with no idea what he is doing and no adult supervision"- oh - it stuck with me.

Maybe start with

"In my opinion, with no basis in fact, no data and in fact a lot of evidence data and scientific methodology pointing against what I am about to say" before your next post if they continue in the same vein
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2017, 08:20:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 19, 2017, 02:17:55 AM
Don't  take my word for it!

Bill Clinton described it as "the craziest thing ever, people humping it 60 hours a week.... their premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half"
Whitey the GOP has control all branches of the political wing so they have to do what they think is right for the countrÿ.
Healthcare has been a problem going back long before the Clinton admin. Hillary Clinton tried to address it in the 90s. Now its one sixth of thé economy growing twice as fast as the economy.  Soon it will be one fifth of the economy.  It's not far from there to one quarter .

The Republican party is unable to govern. That is how end of empire corruption works.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 19, 2017, 03:49:07 PM
Aussie Lives matter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 20, 2017, 03:30:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

What Minneapolis shows us is that there are people carrying guns and badges who shouldn't be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 20, 2017, 04:20:47 AM
John McCain diagnosed with brain cancer.

Donnie dickhead giving an interview to the fake news spreading, failing New York Times throwing his Attorney General under the bus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2017, 08:39:07 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 20, 2017, 04:20:47 AM
John McCain diagnosed with brain cancer.

Donnie dickhead giving an interview to the fake news spreading, failing New York Times throwing his Attorney General under the bus.
For as long as McCain is being treated the GOP have a majority of 1 in the Senate.
The Dems will oppose anything that involves transfers from.the 99% to the 1%.
Trump won't get anything done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 20, 2017, 08:41:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

Thats unfair at best, for you to come on here and talk about sticking the boot into black people is a bit much, Black Lives Matter are welcoming to all as long as non blacks stand at the back of the march, speaking of marching, why don't they march when black children get murdered on the streets of Chicago or Detroit? I will tell you why, because they are a hate group who want cops dead, that's why, they did not start out that way but that is were they are at as of now!

f**k BLM, to me they are a gaggle of racist scum hell bent on seeing police officers dead, you can throw that moron snoop whatever his name is these days in with them as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 20, 2017, 08:42:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2017, 08:39:07 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 20, 2017, 04:20:47 AM
John McCain diagnosed with brain cancer.

Donnie dickhead giving an interview to the fake news spreading, failing New York Times throwing his Attorney General under the bus.
For as long as McCain is being treated the GOP have a majority of 1 in the Senate.
The Dems will oppose anything that involves transfers from.the 99% to the 1%.
Trump won't get anything done.

He has done plenty, on the subject of the nightmare of Obamacare he will absolutely get something done, keep that big noggin stuck in the sand kid. ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2017, 09:28:52 AM
Quote from: stew on July 20, 2017, 08:42:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2017, 08:39:07 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 20, 2017, 04:20:47 AM
John McCain diagnosed with brain cancer.

Donnie dickhead giving an interview to the fake news spreading, failing New York Times throwing his Attorney General under the bus.
For as long as McCain is being treated the GOP have a majority of 1 in the Senate.
The Dems will oppose anything that involves transfers from.the 99% to the 1%.
Trump won't get anything done.

He has done plenty, on the subject of the nightmare of Obamacare he will absolutely get something done, keep that big noggin stuck in the sand kid. ;) ;)
What has he done, Stew? Give us an auld list if you can.

Gary Cohn promised healthcare reform and tax reform by now
Mnuchin promised growth of 3 to 4 per cent this year.
Quarter one growth was 1.2%. #pisspoor
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on July 20, 2017, 03:15:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2017, 08:39:07 AM

For as long as McCain is being treated the GOP have a majority of 1 in the Senate.
The Dems will oppose anything that involves transfers from.the 99% to the 1%.
Trump won't get anything done.

But at least there's still bipartisan support for screwing over the Palestinians and their supporters: 

https://www.aclu.org/letter/aclu-letter-senate-opposing-israel-anti-boycott-act (https://www.aclu.org/letter/aclu-letter-senate-opposing-israel-anti-boycott-act)

http://gothamist.com/2017/07/19/schumer_gillibrand_co-sponsor_senat.php (http://gothamist.com/2017/07/19/schumer_gillibrand_co-sponsor_senat.php)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on July 20, 2017, 03:23:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 20, 2017, 04:20:47 AM
John McCain diagnosed with brain cancer.

Donnie dickhead giving an interview to the fake news spreading, failing New York Times throwing his Attorney General under the bus.

If I'd known he wasn't going to halt the investigations, I'd never have given him the job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 20, 2017, 04:05:58 PM
The bitter truth for many is that no matter how shit Drumpf is doing, a large number of Americans think Clinton would have been worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2017, 04:11:16 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2017, 04:05:58 PM
The bitter truth for many is that no matter how shit Drumpf is doing, a large number of Americans think Clinton would have been worse.
During the election trump made a big deal about how corrupt Clinton was, taking money from Goldman Sachs, for example. Guess who has Goldman people in his Government?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

That isn't the case. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals and BLM. No issue if a black police officer shoots a white person. That's totally fine. It's not racist. She came out of nowhere and the officer was defending himself. Maybe she had a spatula in her hand.
Just like Ferguson eh?
Without the robbery and the assault on the police officer. But let that slide.

Also note that there are no riots, no looting to mark the occasion. I guess those white folk don't want free stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2017, 04:59:47 PM
If white Australian women start to get gunned down by police on a regular basis then I'm quite sure a movement will spring up to do something about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 20, 2017, 06:47:21 PM
For those who'd never heard of it, below is the Liberal reporting it.  All clear as mud.  I't be interesting when the  final report comes out.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/18/us/minneapolis-woman-shooting-what-we-know/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2017, 06:55:36 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/opinion/donald-trump-obamacare-racism.html

The country may well be saved from some of Trump's most draconian impulses by some of Trump's most pronounced flaws: his lack of seriousness, his aversion to tedium and his gnat-like attention span.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 07:19:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2017, 04:59:47 PM
If white Australian women start to get gunned down by police on a regular basis then I'm quite sure a movement will spring up to do something about it.

Only an issue when a white police officer shoots anyone who is black. Correct?
then watch the outrage/riots unfold. Get me some huggies and nikes.

Let's not forget that majority of these incidents involved people who were breaking the law.

Have you cuddled any illegal immigrant criminals today Eamon. Make them feel safe in your nice sanctuary :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2017, 07:32:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 07:19:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2017, 04:59:47 PM
If white Australian women start to get gunned down by police on a regular basis then I'm quite sure a movement will spring up to do something about it.

Only an issue when a white police officer shoots anyone who is black. Correct?
then watch the outrage/riots unfold. Get me some huggies and nikes.

Let's not forget that majority of these incidents involved people who were breaking the law.

Have you cuddled any illegal immigrant criminals today Eamon. Make them feel safe in your nice sanctuary :)
Why do you only get excited about police killings, Foxy? Is it any worse than what the RUC used to do. Oh, I forgot, the RUC was the enemy. Now the police aren't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2017, 07:51:44 PM
Where is the ignore feature? It worked a treat with Stew but I really need it for this obnoxious fox cretin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2017, 07:53:09 PM
. Bloomberg Businessweek's Joshua Green, author of the new book "Devil's Bargain," told Anderson Cooper that building a border wall was just a framing device used by his advisers to get him to remember to discuss immigration.
According to Green:
"It's one of Trump's greatest hits but it wasn't Trump's idea. Two of his staffers, Sam Nunberg and Roger Stone, came up with it as a device to keep Trump, whose attention famously wanders, focused on the issue of immigration reform because they thought that was so important. So, Trump tried it out at a speech in Iowa, the crowd responded."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2017, 07:51:44 PM
Where is the ignore feature? It worked a treat with Stew but I really need it for this obnoxious fox cretin.

We'll get you one of these eamon

(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/safe-space.jpg?w=533&h=535)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 02:51:38 AM
Comrade Cheeto reportedly asking his lawyers to check out what his pardoning powers are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 21, 2017, 04:36:16 AM
Will be an interesting week next week as the trumpster tries to take meuller down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 21, 2017, 08:05:33 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 21, 2017, 04:36:16 AM
Will be an interesting week next week as the trumpster tries to take meuller down
Masha Gessën is a Russian journalist with a lot of experience with autocratic leaders. When Trump was elected she said the only loyalty he would have would be tó family. Autocrats are paranoid. They fear betrayal Trump attacked Sessions this week. I bet he has made himself a lot of enemies in DC. The GOP made a deal with the devil.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 21, 2017, 08:15:47 AM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/07/19/hacking-the-vote-trump-russia-who-helped-whom/

"Using data culled from its database of 5,000 bits of personal information—such as religious affiliation, gun ownership, and buying habits—on 220 million Americans, Cambridge Analytica was able to determine where Trump had the best chances to motivate people who typically didn't vote, where Clinton's support among legacy Democrats was weak, and where the candidate himself should show up, especially in the last days of the campaign.

You can create more personas in Twitter, for example, which makes it look like there are more people than there really are. It's a strategy, essentially, that amplifies your appearance. So what they do is, they launch those simultaneously....The goal is to get...in the top of [the] Twitter stream so mainstream media has to respond to that story. When mainstream media responds to it or looks at it without commenting on it, it takes over organically and you'll see it move over the Internet like a virus.

Lapowsky observed recently in Wired, "...there's nothing preventing a Russian actor or anyone else from reading the news and understanding the American electorate, and thanks to readily available digital tools, targeting that electorate is simple."

the most useful of all are "the identifiers stored in public registration databases that signal a person's [party] affiliation or primary history." These are the most predictive of "persuadables"—the holy grail of campaigns, and in Trump's case, the people who were crucial to his victory. "


It is a real pity that Trump is useless and has the attention span of a child who is too tired
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on July 21, 2017, 09:15:25 AM
Would there be a frontrunner for the next Democratic Presidential hopeful at this stage? Take it Hillary is goosed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 21, 2017, 09:17:38 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 21, 2017, 09:15:25 AM
Would there be a frontrunner for the next Democratic Presidential hopeful at this stage? Take it Hillary is goosed?

Along with death and taxes I think the only other certainty is that Hillary will not be getting the Democratic nomination ever again!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 21, 2017, 09:40:18 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 21, 2017, 09:17:38 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 21, 2017, 09:15:25 AM
Would there be a frontrunner for the next Democratic Presidential hopeful at this stage? Take it Hillary is goosed?

Along with death and taxes I think the only other certainty is that Hillary will not be getting the Democratic nomination ever again!

Pocahontas is the current front runner, she is a turd and she is on pace to beat Trump in 2020 according to your polls kids, congratulations.  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 21, 2017, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2017, 07:51:44 PM
Where is the ignore feature? It worked a treat with Stew but I really need it for this obnoxious fox cretin.

Run away you cowardly idiot, do what all you snowflake do when confronted with reality!  :)

I fairness I did block gallbladder and he is still blocked to this day, not for political reasons, simply because he was and is an arrogant egotist who looks down at everyone as he gulps his very expensive whiskey, how expensive you ask? Just ask him )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on July 21, 2017, 01:52:04 PM
Trump was talking about the Bastille Day celebtations and wondered how balloons stay in the air. Apparently nobody knows.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 21, 2017, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 21, 2017, 09:15:25 AM
Would there be a frontrunner for the next Democratic Presidential hopeful at this stage? Take it Hillary is goosed?
If the Dems put forward a lab rat it would probably win next time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on July 21, 2017, 03:22:16 PM
I wouldn't be so sure of that. His target demographic won't give a shit and would likely come out in their droves if he stood again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 05:05:11 PM
Spicy has resigned  >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 21, 2017, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 05:05:11 PM
Spicy has resigned  >:(
He wasn't very comfortable lying and he fell out with Trump over something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 21, 2017, 05:53:02 PM
Such a shame that Melissa McCarthy's acting career is finished!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 21, 2017, 11:32:10 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.

She lied about having native american ancestry to get jobs. Then said she thinks she's native american because her family told her she was and that she has high cheekbones which resemble them. Yeah.

So she's a liar and fake Pocahontas. 2020 is on!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 22, 2017, 12:03:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 21, 2017, 11:32:10 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.

She lied about having native american ancestry to get jobs. Then said she thinks she's native american because her family told her she was and that she has high cheekbones which resemble them. Yeah.

So she's a liar and fake Pocahontas. 2020 is on!!

Thank you.. you make my point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2017, 12:17:20 AM
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/us/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller-russia-investigation.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 22, 2017, 12:20:29 AM
I don't know if Elizabeth Warren is 1/32 Native American or not, but let's suppose for a moment that she did lie.  When you weigh that one lie against the avalanche of lies that have cascaded on top of us in, say, only the last six months of the the Trump regime, or the vast sums stolen by Wall Street bankers, whom Warren attacks tirelessly, we are not talking about a moral equivalency here.  Yet, Trump supporters don't give a rat's ass about the egregious wrongdoings of the right, but keep harping about moral minutiae by comparison.  The very core of American democracy is under assault, liberty as we know it is in jeopardy, and the right is in a twist about feckin' Pocahontas! Get a grip.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2017, 01:07:31 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 22, 2017, 12:20:29 AM
I don't know if Elizabeth Warren is 1/32 Native American or not, but let's suppose for a moment that she did lie.  When you weigh that one lie against the avalanche of lies that have cascaded on top of us in, say, only the last six months of the the Trump regime, or the vast sums stolen by Wall Street bankers, whom Warren attacks tirelessly, we are not talking about a moral equivalency here.  Yet, Trump supporters don't give a rat's ass about the egregious wrongdoings of the right, but keep harping about moral minutiae by comparison.  The very core of American democracy is under assault, liberty as we know it is in jeopardy, and the right is in a twist about feckin' Pocahontas! Get a grip.
The right wing media built an echo chamber to address minutiae rather than inform readers and viewers about the issues that actually matter to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 22, 2017, 01:08:07 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 22, 2017, 12:20:29 AM
I don't know if Elizabeth Warren is 1/32 Native American or not, but let's suppose for a moment that she did lie.  When you weigh that one lie against the avalanche of lies that have cascaded on top of us in, say, only the last six months of the the Trump regime, or the vast sums stolen by Wall Street bankers, whom Warren attacks tirelessly, we are not talking about a moral equivalency here.  Yet, Trump supporters don't give a rat's ass about the egregious wrongdoings of the right, but keep harping about moral minutiae by comparison.  The very core of American democracy is under assault, liberty as we know it is in jeopardy, and the right is in a twist about feckin' Pocahontas! Get a grip.

Well said... exactly what I would have written if I wasn't "a lazy ould ba$t@rd"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 22, 2017, 01:09:04 AM
Quote from: stew on July 21, 2017, 09:40:18 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 21, 2017, 09:17:38 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 21, 2017, 09:15:25 AM
Would there be a frontrunner for the next Democratic Presidential hopeful at this stage? Take it Hillary is goosed?

Along with death and taxes I think the only other certainty is that Hillary will not be getting the Democratic nomination ever again!

Pocahontas is the current front runner, she is a turd and she is on pace to beat Trump in 2020 according to your polls kids, congratulations.  :)

As always based on whatever is going on on your head at the time of possible with no basis in fact whatsoever
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 22, 2017, 02:17:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 12:03:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 21, 2017, 11:32:10 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.

She lied about having native american ancestry to get jobs. Then said she thinks she's native american because her family told her she was and that she has high cheekbones which resemble them. Yeah.

So she's a liar and fake Pocahontas. 2020 is on!!

Thank you.. you make my point.

You don't have a point. Unless defending someone who tells lies is a point. The woman is a basketcase.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 22, 2017, 02:25:44 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 22, 2017, 12:20:29 AM
I don't know if Elizabeth Warren is 1/32 Native American or not, but let's suppose for a moment that she did lie.  When you weigh that one lie against the avalanche of lies that have cascaded on top of us in, say, only the last six months of the the Trump regime, or the vast sums stolen by Wall Street bankers, whom Warren attacks tirelessly, we are not talking about a moral equivalency here.  Yet, Trump supporters don't give a rat's ass about the egregious wrongdoings of the right, but keep harping about moral minutiae by comparison.  The very core of American democracy is under assault, liberty as we know it is in jeopardy, and the right is in a twist about feckin' Pocahontas! Get a grip.

She did lie and used that to elevate her to higher positions. She admitted it herself. Funny enough the liberals let that go - I wonder why?

As a person she is deceitful and morally bankrupt to pretend to have native American ancestry. You can't compare that to actions of a government but if that's the caliber of someone you want to lead the US then god help everyone.

Democracy is under assault?????? how? Russia? Get a grip.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 22, 2017, 08:12:38 AM
Zzzzz Anything  is an improvement on Trump!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2017, 02:11:36 PM
Roger Stone on Spicer the traitor FFS

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1WMSe5_72iA

Trump saw "scary emoji" on Fox and thought he would be a good spokesman. But he can't make Trump news real.
One of the journos asked him how he would react if he made a statement that was contradicted by a 3am Trump tweet. He couldn't answer.
And Trump.is digging up dirt on Mueller. There is civil war between Priebus and Bannon.
This is all insane.

God bless America


   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 22, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

As always with you, foxy and whitey .. the ad hominem attack with scant regard for the facts. The default position of the "job creators".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2017, 05:25:54 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

As always with you, foxy and whitey .. the ad hominem attack with scant regard for the facts. The default position of the "job creators".
It''s poor.
If you want to support Trump properly you need to use Infowars logic.
This is a Manichean struggle between the Truth and an evil coalition of the Democrats, Jihad is an anti Christian, anti God and anti family satanusts. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1WMSe5_72iA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2017, 05:26:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 22, 2017, 05:25:54 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

As always with you, foxy and whitey .. the ad hominem attack with scant regard for the facts. The default position of the "job creators".
It''s poor.
If you want to support Trump properly you need to use Infowars logic.
This is a Manichean struggle between the Truth and an evil coalition of the Democrats, Jihad is an anti Christian, anti God and anti family satanists. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1WMSe5_72iA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2017, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

As always with you, foxy and whitey .. the ad hominem attack with scant regard for the facts. The default position of the "job creators".

What did I write that was untrue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 22, 2017, 05:52:55 PM
QuoteThat turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch

What part of that is true?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2017, 06:15:30 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

Yaaaawwwwwnnn. .......Well if you knew anything about mandatory disclosures....politicians give a range of what various assets are worth....this is the number she submitted...so maybe you are the one who doesn't have a clue
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 22, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

As always with you, foxy and whitey .. the ad hominem attack with scant regard for the facts. The default position of the "job creators".

You have been provided with facts that Elizabeth Warren is a liar. Take some time to look it up and you can apologise for your remark afterwards.

I'll even give you a headstart on Fake Pocahontas
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7003/heres-everything-you-need-know-about-elizabeth-aaron-bandler
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 22, 2017, 06:48:36 PM
Just looking all quote there, I see no link to any articles that support your statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 22, 2017, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 22, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

As always with you, foxy and whitey .. the ad hominem attack with scant regard for the facts. The default position of the "job creators".

You have been provided with facts that Elizabeth Warren is a liar. Take some time to look it up and you can apologise for your remark afterwards.

I'll even give you a headstart on Fake Pocahontas
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7003/heres-everything-you-need-know-about-elizabeth-aaron-bandler

Fox you are dealing with people who don't care about right and wrong, the rule of law is something to be abused if it suits their sensibilities, you will be getting no apology.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 22, 2017, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 22, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

As always with you, foxy and whitey .. the ad hominem attack with scant regard for the facts. The default position of the "job creators".

You have been provided with facts that Elizabeth Warren is a liar. Take some time to look it up and you can apologise for your remark afterwards.

I'll even give you a headstart on Fake Pocahontas
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7003/heres-everything-you-need-know-about-elizabeth-aaron-bandler

Fox you are dealing with people who don't care about right and wrong, the rule of law is something to be abused if it suits their sensibilities, you will be getting no apology.

I know. Dealing with liberals is like dealing with 5 year olds. They hear only what they want and kick up a stink on things they don't like.
But you have to at least try make them see sense, even though you know they are totally wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 22, 2017, 10:12:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 22, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

As always with you, foxy and whitey .. the ad hominem attack with scant regard for the facts. The default position of the "job creators".

You have been provided with facts that Elizabeth Warren is a liar. Take some time to look it up and you can apologise for your remark afterwards.

I'll even give you a headstart on Fake Pocahontas
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7003/heres-everything-you-need-know-about-elizabeth-aaron-bandler

Here is the Washington Posts take on the issue
http://wapo.st/293EAjw?tid=ss_mail&utm_term=.41b8ed877977
Hardly conclusive proof either way if she has some Native American Dna in her or not.
If she chooses to believe she has Native American blood what's the big deal. Read the article and you will find that she did not tick the ethnicity box that would have given her advantage.
In your world any kind of innuendo is "fact" if you think it will further your agenda. So once again Get your facts straight before you get outraged over nothing. She is a very smart woman who has taken on Wall Street and won. Wall Street and the Right are scared "shitless" of her. She is one of the few Democrats who is capable of getting poor people to vote for their own economic self interest and understands that job creator trickle down economics is bullshit.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2017, 11:02:35 PM
This really belongs in the WTF thread

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/22/donald-trump-says-has-complete-power-pardon-attacks-russia-probes/

Donald Trump asserted he has "complete power to pardon" as he attacked the multiplying investigations into potential links between his campaign and Russia during last year's election

Mr Trump's intervention followed reports that he and his legal team had explored his authority to pardon assistants, family members, and possibly even himself.

The president said there was currently no need to use the power, because nothing wrong had been done. But his comment set up up the potential future prospect of a constitutional crisis as the idea of a president self-pardon has never been tested.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 22, 2017, 11:39:12 PM
Great, the air conditioner has failed, the temperature indoors is sweltering, and I have to endure Fox and Whitey.

I posed a very simple question when the idea of a Warren presidential run was posited.  I wondered about the moral equivalency between the two possible candidates, Warren and Trump.  BTW, I don't know who the Dems will run, but I don't think it'll be Warren.

Anyway, what do I get in response? A balanced assessment of their relative morality? Heck, no. Just absurdities from the Faux man and Sean Hannity's Fox News talking points from whitey.

OK, Foxy, you have the elephantine gonads to say that Warren is dishonest/corrupt.  You do know that the guy in your corner is Donald feckin' Trump, right--conman, cheat, pussy-grabber extraordinaire, who has already cost taxpayers millions with his endless golf trips and security details, not to mention the upwards of 20-30 million people he is seeking to deny healthcare.  And Foxy, despite your imbecilic point, I am not asking you to compare a person with a government, just a person with a person.

So, let's see, who's the more morally destitute?  The person who claims to be 1/32 Native American, who owns an above-average house in the Boston market (1-2 million at most), who taught at Harvard (no concrete evidence that she she used her background for advancement), and who champions the cause of the middle class against the likes of Goldman Sachs OR the inveterate liar-cheat who has refused to pay his bills, cheated construction workers/companies, gouged down to earth people with his fraudulent university.  Itemizing his lies alone would take pages, but you know that.  You and your ilk just don't give a crap.  As he said, he could shoot people on 5th Avenue, and it wouldn't bother you.

And then you have the chutzpah to mock me for saying that under Trump, American democracy is under assault.  Again, I could write screeds on that theme.  How about gerrymandering, systematic voter suppression, bogus claims of voter fraud, disdain for the truth, elevation of bogus propaganda news sites and declaring war against the legitimate news media and the very First Amendment (i.e. seeking ways to strip 1st Amendment rights from those who criticize you).

Oh, yes, and that "Russia" thing too--meddling with/sabotaging elections, colluding with Russian emissaries (and then a procession of Trumpers having a severe bout of neo-Reagan Alzheimer's when it comes to remembering meetings), financial entanglements with Russian oligarchs.

Oh, and of course, firing Comey, and actively and frantically working to discredit and remove Mueller.

Foxy et al, if you own a restaurant and the health department sends two people to inspect your premises, and you fire one and seek to unload the other, then I have news for you--your kitchen is ankle-deep in rat doo.

So, Foxy and friends, take a second to weigh ALL the shortcomings of Elizabeth Warren (or anyone else for that matter, including the real Pocahontas) against the longcomings of DJT.  What do you get?  You get the Dublin senior footballers versus the Armagh blind girls' U-7 selection.

So, yeah, get a grip. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on July 23, 2017, 12:10:24 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 22, 2017, 11:39:12 PM

You get the Dublin senior footballers versus the Armagh blind girls' U-7 selection.


And when we beat them, we'll have to hear all about how it's only due to unfair home advantage and funding...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 01:33:54 AM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/17/dont-compare-trump-to-nixon-its-unfair-to-nixon-215384
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 01:43:02 AM


Paul Krugman @paulkrugman
·


David Frum called Trump a "constitutional crisis on two legs" (link: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/an-inaugural-celebration-that-rings-hollow/513902/) theatlantic.com/politics/archi... Wrong: he's a constitutional crisis in a golf cart.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife)

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting)

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 02:47:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife)

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting)

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump
It comes down to whether the party can legislate or not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 23, 2017, 03:35:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Neither pay anybody anything

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket
Wtf? How many roubles do Trump's suit cost? What is the price of her jacket have to do with inequality. Her 12k jacket vs Donnie's plane? Go find a clue. Non sequitur

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife). Pussy grabber, wife 3 was a  illegal immigrant Non sequitur. 

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting) non sequitur. And ffs Trump's golf course and the wind farm. Jesus, it's like handling an 8 year old.

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump

Finally a point. And you're right. Why do you resort to this crap?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 23, 2017, 08:22:46 AM
Damn ...... a lot of the "men" posting since I asked the question about "Pocohontas"  have me asking some questions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 23, 2017, 10:08:55 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 10:12:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 22, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 22, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: stew on July 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

That turd has no links whatsoever to the native American people, the right is not afraid of her, she is beloved for being a part of the Clinton machine that managed to lose to Trump ffs.

She is a hateful bitch and I am hearing Dwayne Johnson is going to run for the Presidency, now there is someone on the left finally worth voting for, he is a really good guy, smart, savvy and the wemen love him, shit, I would even vote for him because like Bernie, he is a good man untainted by Washington.

As always with you, foxy and whitey .. the ad hominem attack with scant regard for the facts. The default position of the "job creators".

You have been provided with facts that Elizabeth Warren is a liar. Take some time to look it up and you can apologise for your remark afterwards.

I'll even give you a headstart on Fake Pocahontas
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7003/heres-everything-you-need-know-about-elizabeth-aaron-bandler

Here is the Washington Posts take on the issue
http://wapo.st/293EAjw?tid=ss_mail&utm_term=.41b8ed877977
Hardly conclusive proof either way if she has some Native American Dna in her or not.
If she chooses to believe she has Native American blood what's the big deal. Read the article and you will find that she did not tick the ethnicity box that would have given her advantage.
In your world any kind of innuendo is "fact" if you think it will further your agenda. So once again Get your facts straight before you get outraged over nothing. She is a very smart woman who has taken on Wall Street and won. Wall Street and the Right are scared "shitless" of her. She is one of the few Democrats who is capable of getting poor people to vote for their own economic self interest and understands that job creator trickle down economics is bullshit.

She f**king admitted she was not an Native American ffs!The democrats had eight years to help the poor people, they did, they helped them get poorer, they helped more of them get themselves homeless and they don't give a f**k about the poor, they care only about VOTES!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 23, 2017, 10:20:08 AM
Minneapolis is a liberal town, my youngest went to school there and I took many teams to play there over the years, I know the area very well and I have also felt the wrath of the local police, I am not surprised that the top city cop resigned, she was doing an awful job and several people have been killed in recent times by cops that conveniently have their body cams off.

This young Australian woman actually called 911 twice and managed to get killed, I believe this cop panicked after hearing fireworks go off, that is not good enough and he deserves to stand trial for murder.

I see at a presser liberal scumbags disrupted proceedings and made it about them, the left is all about freedom of speech as long as they can silence those who oppose them, Rosie O'Donnell wants to punt the President off a cliff, Hollywood is full of vermin like this and I don't know of one person who gives a shite what she thinks, if this is the sort of liberal the democrats covet good luck, you are going to need it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 01:06:21 PM
Quote from: stew on July 23, 2017, 10:20:08 AM
Minneapolis is a liberal town, my youngest went to school there and I took many teams to play there over the years, I know the area very well and I have also felt the wrath of the local police, I am not surprised that the top city cop resigned, she was doing an awful job and several people have been killed in recent times by cops that conveniently have their body cams off.

This young Australian woman actually called 911 twice and managed to get killed, I believe this cop panicked after hearing fireworks go off, that is not good enough and he deserves to stand trial for murder.

I see at a presser liberal scumbags disrupted proceedings and made it about them, the left is all about freedom of speech as long as they can silence those who oppose them, Rosie O'Donnell wants to punt the President off a cliff, Hollywood is full of vermin like this and I don't know of one person who gives a shite what she thinks, if this is the sort of liberal the democrats covet good luck, you are going to need it.
Trump taunted Rosie Ô Donnell during the campaign , Stew. There is no love lost there.
The GOP got the mandate from the people and have done nothing with it.
I also think the 2 state system is banjaxed. The 2 parties are hopelessly corrupt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 23, 2017, 01:13:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 01:06:21 PM
Quote from: stew on July 23, 2017, 10:20:08 AM
Minneapolis is a liberal town, my youngest went to school there and I took many teams to play there over the years, I know the area very well and I have also felt the wrath of the local police, I am not surprised that the top city cop resigned, she was doing an awful job and several people have been killed in recent times by cops that conveniently have their body cams off.

This young Australian woman actually called 911 twice and managed to get killed, I believe this cop panicked after hearing fireworks go off, that is not good enough and he deserves to stand trial for murder.

I see at a presser liberal scumbags disrupted proceedings and made it about them, the left is all about freedom of speech as long as they can silence those who oppose them, Rosie O'Donnell wants to punt the President off a cliff, Hollywood is full of vermin like this and I don't know of one person who gives a shite what she thinks, if this is the sort of liberal the democrats covet good luck, you are going to need it.
Trump taunted Rosie Ô Donnell during the campaign , Stew. There is no love lost there.
The GOP got the mandate from the people and have done nothing with it.
I also think the 2 state system is banjaxed. The 2 parties are hopelessly corrupt.

We agree on everything for once )

Odonnell has prior form with trump but her comments are way out of line.

The two party system is a disgrace, if the bern was really focused on pushing forth his socialist agenda he would form a new socialist party, the tea party should do the same, this would force the dems and the republicans to come to the centre and that could only be a good thing for us all.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CiKe on July 23, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 06:15:30 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

Yaaaawwwwwnnn. .......Well if you knew anything about mandatory disclosures....politicians give a range of what various assets are worth....this is the number she submitted...so maybe you are the one who doesn't have a clue

I quite clearly said I didn't have a clue. However, the fact reading is a problem for you might explain how you missed answering the question asked. It might also explain your inability to explore beyond an echo chamber.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CiKe on July 23, 2017, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: stew on July 23, 2017, 01:13:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 01:06:21 PM
Quote from: stew on July 23, 2017, 10:20:08 AM
Minneapolis is a liberal town, my youngest went to school there and I took many teams to play there over the years, I know the area very well and I have also felt the wrath of the local police, I am not surprised that the top city cop resigned, she was doing an awful job and several people have been killed in recent times by cops that conveniently have their body cams off.

This young Australian woman actually called 911 twice and managed to get killed, I believe this cop panicked after hearing fireworks go off, that is not good enough and he deserves to stand trial for murder.

I see at a presser liberal scumbags disrupted proceedings and made it about them, the left is all about freedom of speech as long as they can silence those who oppose them, Rosie O'Donnell wants to punt the President off a cliff, Hollywood is full of vermin like this and I don't know of one person who gives a shite what she thinks, if this is the sort of liberal the democrats covet good luck, you are going to need it.
Trump taunted Rosie Ô Donnell during the campaign , Stew. There is no love lost there.
The GOP got the mandate from the people and have done nothing with it.
I also think the 2 state system is banjaxed. The 2 parties are hopelessly corrupt.

We agree on everything for once )

Odonnell has prior form with trump but her comments are way out of line.

The two party system is a disgrace, if the bern was really focused on pushing forth his socialist agenda he would form a new socialist party, the tea party should do the same, this would force the dems and the republicans to come to the centre and that could only be a good thing for us

We can but hope, current polarization not doing anyone any favours
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 02:39:34 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 22, 2017, 11:39:12 PM
Great, the air conditioner has failed, the temperature indoors is sweltering, and I have to endure Fox and Whitey.

I posed a very simple question when the idea of a Warren presidential run was posited.  I wondered about the moral equivalency between the two possible candidates, Warren and Trump.  BTW, I don't know who the Dems will run, but I don't think it'll be Warren.

Anyway, what do I get in response? A balanced assessment of their relative morality? Heck, no. Just absurdities from the Faux man and Sean Hannity's Fox News talking points from whitey.

OK, Foxy, you have the elephantine gonads to say that Warren is dishonest/corrupt.  You do know that the guy in your corner is Donald feckin' Trump, right--conman, cheat, pussy-grabber extraordinaire, who has already cost taxpayers millions with his endless golf trips and security details, not to mention the upwards of 20-30 million people he is seeking to deny healthcare.  And Foxy, despite your imbecilic point, I am not asking you to compare a person with a government, just a person with a person.

So, let's see, who's the more morally destitute?  The person who claims to be 1/32 Native American, who owns an above-average house in the Boston market (1-2 million at most), who taught at Harvard (no concrete evidence that she she used her background for advancement), and who champions the cause of the middle class against the likes of Goldman Sachs OR the inveterate liar-cheat who has refused to pay his bills, cheated construction workers/companies, gouged down to earth people with his fraudulent university.  Itemizing his lies alone would take pages, but you know that.  You and your ilk just don't give a crap.  As he said, he could shoot people on 5th Avenue, and it wouldn't bother you.

And then you have the chutzpah to mock me for saying that under Trump, American democracy is under assault.  Again, I could write screeds on that theme.  How about gerrymandering, systematic voter suppression, bogus claims of voter fraud, disdain for the truth, elevation of bogus propaganda news sites and declaring war against the legitimate news media and the very First Amendment (i.e. seeking ways to strip 1st Amendment rights from those who criticize you).

Oh, yes, and that "Russia" thing too--meddling with/sabotaging elections, colluding with Russian emissaries (and then a procession of Trumpers having a severe bout of neo-Reagan Alzheimer's when it comes to remembering meetings), financial entanglements with Russian oligarchs.

Oh, and of course, firing Comey, and actively and frantically working to discredit and remove Mueller.

Foxy et al, if you own a restaurant and the health department sends two people to inspect your premises, and you fire one and seek to unload the other, then I have news for you--your kitchen is ankle-deep in rat doo.

So, Foxy and friends, take a second to weigh ALL the shortcomings of Elizabeth Warren (or anyone else for that matter, including the real Pocahontas) against the longcomings of DJT.  What do you get?  You get the Dublin senior footballers versus the Armagh blind girls' U-7 selection.

So, yeah, get a grip.
Very good stuff.
In the US the GOP media is an echo chamber. You can't systematically dispossess people and tell the truth.

It is all about looting the country for the benefit of the ultra rich. 
INFOWARS is slightly to the right of Fox on the bullshit spectrum. Alex Jones repeats and repeats simple ideas to ignorant people
"If Trump loses the war the Dems will impose martial law.
They have lost the will of the people. They are cornered rats. They will go for broke.
America is on death Watch.  Dems allied with radical orthodox Islam.  Anti god anti Christian  anti family
They mean to finish us. We must finish them..
Müller and Rosenstein should be sacked. There is no evidence against Trump even though Sessions recused himself. The most biased lynch mob of executioners. Dershowitz and other Dems say this is insane. This is a rogue group and people behave like Mueller is the new president and Jesus Christ come down from heaven. 

Elizabeth  Drew is very good on the modern Republican party compared to 40 years ago.

"Congress still had the capacity to do things in a bipartisan fashion.

Republican moderates were not an endangered species.

Twitter hadn't corrupted the news cycle of the political class—or the attention span of the president himself.

Watergate showed that accountability was possible, and Congress could function the way the founders intended—a question that is still up in the air in the Trump era. "It was a very different kind of politics then. Bipartisanship was not the oddity. It was really the norm."

The US system is broken. Plutocracy broke it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 23, 2017, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 23, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 06:15:30 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

Yaaaawwwwwnnn. .......Well if you knew anything about mandatory disclosures....politicians give a range of what various assets are worth....this is the number she submitted...so maybe you are the one who doesn't have a clue

I quite clearly said I didn't have a clue. However, the fact reading is a problem for you might explain how you missed answering the question asked. It might also explain your inability to explore beyond an echo chamber.

Lectues about inequality from 1% wealthy elites who inhabit the Ivory towers ring hollow with me. 

Having lived almost exclusively in Blue States for the past 25 years, I have seen these people in action time and time again........and its not pretty.  Theres a person in my town who has a "We are the 99%" bumper sticker on her Prius.  She and her husband (whos a surgeon) almost litigated their unfortunate neighbor into the poor house. (He had inherited the house from his grandmother). At the heel of the hunt, he had to put his house on the market and then couldnt sell it because the 99%'rs next door were such cvnts no one wanted to live beside them.  THEY then bough the house on the cheap, and promptly knocked it so that they could extend their garden.  Lovely people

Edit:  Last time I checked....they also had an Elizabeth Warren sticker on their car
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 23, 2017, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 23, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 06:15:30 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

Yaaaawwwwwnnn. .......Well if you knew anything about mandatory disclosures....politicians give a range of what various assets are worth....this is the number she submitted...so maybe you are the one who doesn't have a clue

I quite clearly said I didn't have a clue. However, the fact reading is a problem for you might explain how you missed answering the question asked. It might also explain your inability to explore beyond an echo chamber.

Lectues about inequality from 1% wealthy elites who inhabit the Ivory towers ring hollow with me. 

Having lived almost exclusively in Blue States for the past 25 years, I have seen these people in action time and time again........and its not pretty.  Theres a person in my town who has a "We are the 99%" bumper sticker on her Prius.  She and her husband (whos a surgeon) almost litigated their unfortunate neighbor into the poor house. (He had inherited the house from his grandmother). At the heel of the hunt, he had to put his house on the market and then couldnt sell it because the 99%'rs next door were such cvnts no one wanted to live beside them.  THEY then bough the house on the cheap, and promptly knocked it so that they could extend their garden.  Lovely people

Edit:  Last time I checked....they also had an Elizabeth Warren sticker on their car

And ... ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 23, 2017, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 23, 2017, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 23, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 06:15:30 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

Yaaaawwwwwnnn. .......Well if you knew anything about mandatory disclosures....politicians give a range of what various assets are worth....this is the number she submitted...so maybe you are the one who doesn't have a clue

I quite clearly said I didn't have a clue. However, the fact reading is a problem for you might explain how you missed answering the question asked. It might also explain your inability to explore beyond an echo chamber.

Lectues about inequality from 1% wealthy elites who inhabit the Ivory towers ring hollow with me. 

Having lived almost exclusively in Blue States for the past 25 years, I have seen these people in action time and time again........and its not pretty.  Theres a person in my town who has a "We are the 99%" bumper sticker on her Prius.  She and her husband (whos a surgeon) almost litigated their unfortunate neighbor into the poor house. (He had inherited the house from his grandmother). At the heel of the hunt, he had to put his house on the market and then couldnt sell it because the 99%'rs next door were such cvnts no one wanted to live beside them.  THEY then bough the house on the cheap, and promptly knocked it so that they could extend their garden.  Lovely people

Edit:  Last time I checked....they also had an Elizabeth Warren sticker on their car

And ... ?

Elizabeth Warren is a fraud and a phony and so are her supporters...at least the ones I know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 23, 2017, 05:10:00 PM
And Donald Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 23, 2017, 05:42:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 23, 2017, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 23, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 06:15:30 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

Yaaaawwwwwnnn. .......Well if you knew anything about mandatory disclosures....politicians give a range of what various assets are worth....this is the number she submitted...so maybe you are the one who doesn't have a clue

I quite clearly said I didn't have a clue. However, the fact reading is a problem for you might explain how you missed answering the question asked. It might also explain your inability to explore beyond an echo chamber.

Lectues about inequality from 1% wealthy elites who inhabit the Ivory towers ring hollow with me. 

Having lived almost exclusively in Blue States for the past 25 years, I have seen these people in action time and time again........and its not pretty.  Theres a person in my town who has a "We are the 99%" bumper sticker on her Prius.  She and her husband (whos a surgeon) almost litigated their unfortunate neighbor into the poor house. (He had inherited the house from his grandmother). At the heel of the hunt, he had to put his house on the market and then couldnt sell it because the 99%'rs next door were such cvnts no one wanted to live beside them.  THEY then bough the house on the cheap, and promptly knocked it so that they could extend their garden.  Lovely people

Edit:  Last time I checked....they also had an Elizabeth Warren sticker on their car

And ... ?

Elizabeth Warren is a fraud and a phony
OK - I had no idea. Thanks for the information.

Quote
and so are her supporters
Your little parable does was interesting, but don't try to use it as evidence for this conclusion.

Quote
...at least the ones I know
Ah yes.

Absolute classic alt-right diversion. An immigrant mugged an old lady in my town. Therefore immigrants are causing an increase in crime rates. And we know the opposite is true - crime rates are lower in high-immigration areas. But Tucker Carlson's audience won't ever hear that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 23, 2017, 05:43:21 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 23, 2017, 05:10:00 PM
And Donald Trump?

I fvckin hate Trump

Hillary is a lying thieving cvnt, Trump is probably the biggest moron who ever run for office

Even thought I disagree with him on almost everything, Bernie was my man because he at least has good intentions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 05:49:27 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 23, 2017, 05:10:00 PM
And Donald Trump?
PJ O Rourke last year said Clinton was wrong within the normal parameters of wrong whereas Trump....
https://youtu.be/HhVintbafkU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 23, 2017, 05:52:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 23, 2017, 05:42:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 23, 2017, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 23, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 06:15:30 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

Yaaaawwwwwnnn. .......Well if you knew anything about mandatory disclosures....politicians give a range of what various assets are worth....this is the number she submitted...so maybe you are the one who doesn't have a clue

I quite clearly said I didn't have a clue. However, the fact reading is a problem for you might explain how you missed answering the question asked. It might also explain your inability to explore beyond an echo chamber.

Lectues about inequality from 1% wealthy elites who inhabit the Ivory towers ring hollow with me. 

Having lived almost exclusively in Blue States for the past 25 years, I have seen these people in action time and time again........and its not pretty.  Theres a person in my town who has a "We are the 99%" bumper sticker on her Prius.  She and her husband (whos a surgeon) almost litigated their unfortunate neighbor into the poor house. (He had inherited the house from his grandmother). At the heel of the hunt, he had to put his house on the market and then couldnt sell it because the 99%'rs next door were such cvnts no one wanted to live beside them.  THEY then bough the house on the cheap, and promptly knocked it so that they could extend their garden.  Lovely people

Edit:  Last time I checked....they also had an Elizabeth Warren sticker on their car

And ... ?

Elizabeth Warren is a fraud and a phony
OK - I had no idea. Thanks for the information.

Quote
and so are her supporters
Your little parable does was interesting, but don't try to use it as evidence for this conclusion.

Quote
...at least the ones I know
Ah yes.

Absolute classic alt-right diversion. An immigrant mugged an old lady in my town. Therefore immigrants are causing an increase in crime rates. And we know the opposite is true - crime rates are lower in high-immigration areas. But Tucker Carlson's audience won't ever hear that.

I have lived in predominantly blue states for 25 years and my real life experiences have led me to form the opinion that wealthy uber liberals like Elizabeth Warren and Ted Kennedy really dont give a flying fvck about anyone or anything but themselves.  They just peddle a different flavor of bullshit to an equally uneducated and ill informed base

Im sure your past 25 years of life experience would lead to you having opinions about a variety of topics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 06:31:31 PM
Whitey Warren has done a lot of work on making sure ordinary people don't pay for bank collapses. Kennedy worked a lot on things like Healthcare and did so on a bipartisan basis. What does the GOP do for ordinary people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 23, 2017, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 23, 2017, 06:31:31 PM
Whitey Warren has done a lot of work on making sure ordinary people don't pay for bank collapses. Kennedy worked a lot on things like Healthcare and did so on a bipartisan basis. What does the GOP do for ordinary people?

And I did mention earlier that I like some of her ideas.....however, some people gush over her like shes the second coming and cant understand how anyone can dare even question her.

Oh and I take it you knew that Ted Kenndy derailed universal healthcare under Jimmy Carter because he was going to challenge Carter in the Democratic Primary.  Read that myself in Jimmy Carters book (ie not a Fox News attack)


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/16/AR2010091607487.html


(And I personally know people who worked at a country club on Cape Cod where the Kennedys were members.  Very interesting first person accounts of how they treated the staff there)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 24, 2017, 01:32:40 AM
Rob Tornoe @RobTornoe

.@brianstelter: Trump lies about voter fraud and wire tapping. @KellyannePolls: "He doesn't think he's lying about those issues."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 24, 2017, 02:00:42 AM
The leader of the free world. The capo di tutti capi of the GOP

By Jay Rosen @jayrosen_nyu

1/ About that "interview" he gave to three Times reporters I have not stopped thinking. A thread to explain why.


2/ After reading the transcript I wanted to locate the horizon and stare at it for an hour or so. Get my bearings. Alas, I was

3/ The brokenness. The ruin. Hot fracture. His interruptions that he interrupts. It's more than incoherence, it's the obliteration of sense.

4/ What I'm still piecing together, four days after, is how trying to interview him exposes premises under the practice that have gone bust.


5/ Simple example. One might ask: why didn't the reporters follow up and press him on...? But this makes no sense when interviewing Trump.

6/ For the most likely outcome of seeking clarification by way of a follow-up is that he will introduce some new and further confusion.

7/ But the problems go deeper. One premise of interviewing a public official is that the official is more "in the know" than the journalist.
8/ Everything the Times reporters asked about health care shredded that premise. He knows far less than the people seeking answers from him!


9/ If a man who can't grasp the difference between health and life insurance is a source, we need to ask... of what?

10/ It gets worse. An even more basic premise to an interview is that press and politician are separate entities: one questioning the other.

11/ With Trump, this elemental division cannot be assumed. Because he's unsure of his existence outside of being talked about by the media.



12/ At one point Trump can't recall if he's president or pundit, as he sketches his plan to 'blame the Democrats' when Obamacare collapses.



13/ You're not supposed to SAY that. You simply DO it, and let the announcers call the play. But he knows not where he ends and they begin.

14/ Message, argument, position, call: sifting the wreckage of the text, reporters can make from his words a simulacrum of such things, but—

15/ You don't get a sense that he's explaining what existed prior to its being asked about in the interview— or that it will persist after.



16/ Reading the transcript, you see desperation everywhere: a hunger for validation, a dim rage to appear before the judges of appearance.

17/ "Enemies of mine are saying it was the greatest speech ever made on foreign soil by a president... You saw the reviews I got

18/ True: every interview is a performance, a shaping of self for public consumption. And the interviewer joins in that. But in journalism—


19/ — there are no instructions for interviewing the holder of power who lacks a self. "You saw the reviews I got." By letting that pass...

20/ By not saying, "Mr. President, no one we respect thinks that was the greatest speech ever by a US president on foreign soil..."

  21/ They were letting him talk, and possibly hang himself. All the cliches apply. But this is not a cliched moment. It's a civic emergency.

Exposure is a metaphor. You expose what is there. But what if Trump's answers sprang up simply to get an attention kick from the questioner?

Carol Domansky @doolittlelady·13h

Replying to @jayrosen_nyu

Thank you for this dissection of interview. Enlightening and disturbing. We are saddled with an ogre.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 24, 2017, 01:55:42 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/12/what-is-collusion-215366
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 24, 2017, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 22, 2017, 11:39:12 PM
Great, the air conditioner has failed, the temperature indoors is sweltering, and I have to endure Fox and Whitey.

I posed a very simple question when the idea of a Warren presidential run was posited.  I wondered about the moral equivalency between the two possible candidates, Warren and Trump.  BTW, I don't know who the Dems will run, but I don't think it'll be Warren.

Anyway, what do I get in response? A balanced assessment of their relative morality? Heck, no. Just absurdities from the Faux man and Sean Hannity's Fox News talking points from whitey.

OK, Foxy, you have the elephantine gonads to say that Warren is dishonest/corrupt.  You do know that the guy in your corner is Donald feckin' Trump, right--conman, cheat, pussy-grabber extraordinaire, who has already cost taxpayers millions with his endless golf trips and security details, not to mention the upwards of 20-30 million people he is seeking to deny healthcare.  And Foxy, despite your imbecilic point, I am not asking you to compare a person with a government, just a person with a person.

So, let's see, who's the more morally destitute?  The person who claims to be 1/32 Native American, who owns an above-average house in the Boston market (1-2 million at most), who taught at Harvard (no concrete evidence that she she used her background for advancement), and who champions the cause of the middle class against the likes of Goldman Sachs OR the inveterate liar-cheat who has refused to pay his bills, cheated construction workers/companies, gouged down to earth people with his fraudulent university.  Itemizing his lies alone would take pages, but you know that.  You and your ilk just don't give a crap.  As he said, he could shoot people on 5th Avenue, and it wouldn't bother you.

And then you have the chutzpah to mock me for saying that under Trump, American democracy is under assault.  Again, I could write screeds on that theme.  How about gerrymandering, systematic voter suppression, bogus claims of voter fraud, disdain for the truth, elevation of bogus propaganda news sites and declaring war against the legitimate news media and the very First Amendment (i.e. seeking ways to strip 1st Amendment rights from those who criticize you).

Oh, yes, and that "Russia" thing too--meddling with/sabotaging elections, colluding with Russian emissaries (and then a procession of Trumpers having a severe bout of neo-Reagan Alzheimer's when it comes to remembering meetings), financial entanglements with Russian oligarchs.

Oh, and of course, firing Comey, and actively and frantically working to discredit and remove Mueller.

Foxy et al, if you own a restaurant and the health department sends two people to inspect your premises, and you fire one and seek to unload the other, then I have news for you--your kitchen is ankle-deep in rat doo.

So, Foxy and friends, take a second to weigh ALL the shortcomings of Elizabeth Warren (or anyone else for that matter, including the real Pocahontas) against the longcomings of DJT.  What do you get?  You get the Dublin senior footballers versus the Armagh blind girls' U-7 selection.

So, yeah, get a grip.

Quality!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 24, 2017, 09:13:13 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 22, 2017, 11:39:12 PM
Great, the air conditioner has failed, the temperature indoors is sweltering, and I have to endure Fox and Whitey.

I posed a very simple question when the idea of a Warren presidential run was posited.  I wondered about the moral equivalency between the two possible candidates, Warren and Trump.  BTW, I don't know who the Dems will run, but I don't think it'll be Warren.

Anyway, what do I get in response? A balanced assessment of their relative morality? Heck, no. Just absurdities from the Faux man and Sean Hannity's Fox News talking points from whitey.

OK, Foxy, you have the elephantine gonads to say that Warren is dishonest/corrupt.  You do know that the guy in your corner is Donald feckin' Trump, right--conman, cheat, pussy-grabber extraordinaire, who has already cost taxpayers millions with his endless golf trips and security details, not to mention the upwards of 20-30 million people he is seeking to deny healthcare.  And Foxy, despite your imbecilic point, I am not asking you to compare a person with a government, just a person with a person.

So, let's see, who's the more morally destitute?  The person who claims to be 1/32 Native American, who owns an above-average house in the Boston market (1-2 million at most), who taught at Harvard (no concrete evidence that she she used her background for advancement), and who champions the cause of the middle class against the likes of Goldman Sachs OR the inveterate liar-cheat who has refused to pay his bills, cheated construction workers/companies, gouged down to earth people with his fraudulent university.  Itemizing his lies alone would take pages, but you know that.  You and your ilk just don't give a crap.  As he said, he could shoot people on 5th Avenue, and it wouldn't bother you.

And then you have the chutzpah to mock me for saying that under Trump, American democracy is under assault.  Again, I could write screeds on that theme.  How about gerrymandering, systematic voter suppression, bogus claims of voter fraud, disdain for the truth, elevation of bogus propaganda news sites and declaring war against the legitimate news media and the very First Amendment (i.e. seeking ways to strip 1st Amendment rights from those who criticize you).

Oh, yes, and that "Russia" thing too--meddling with/sabotaging elections, colluding with Russian emissaries (and then a procession of Trumpers having a severe bout of neo-Reagan Alzheimer's when it comes to remembering meetings), financial entanglements with Russian oligarchs.

Oh, and of course, firing Comey, and actively and frantically working to discredit and remove Mueller.

Foxy et al, if you own a restaurant and the health department sends two people to inspect your premises, and you fire one and seek to unload the other, then I have news for you--your kitchen is ankle-deep in rat doo.

So, Foxy and friends, take a second to weigh ALL the shortcomings of Elizabeth Warren (or anyone else for that matter, including the real Pocahontas) against the longcomings of DJT.  What do you get?  You get the Dublin senior footballers versus the Armagh blind girls' U-7 selection.

So, yeah, get a grip.

So in your book Elizabeth Warren telling lies is ok.

An individual who has shown herself to be deceitful and has the "chutzpah" to claim that she had Native American heritage to further her career. Warren CLAIMED to have 1/32 ancestry and that was debunked. She then made a u-turn and tried to talk her way out of it and not a peep from democrats. Surely you can't claim to be moral crusaders with that level of hypocrisy. Take your own team to task with their failings instead of the usual hysterical "Russia" narrative.

As for your systematic voter suppression - er, no. Allowing people to vote with no official ID is another dirty democrat trick to allow illegals to rig the election. That's way more worrying than Russians with no votes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 24, 2017, 11:17:26 PM
I'll say it again, even if EVERYTHING Warren has said and done were a lie, and it's not, she's up against Donald Trump. How can you possibly think that they're comparable.  That you even consider this makes your opinion absurd, laughable, and frankly disheartening.  There is NOTHING redeeming about him whatsoever.  Oops, he did retrieve Rory McIlroy's golf club when he launched it into a pond.  He's a crook, a liar, a thief.  She, on the other hand, has a brain and a social conscience.

As for voting fraud.  It is much more than voter ID cards.  There is a ton of evidence of voter suppression.  And you think Russian intervention is insignificant.  God!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 24, 2017, 11:47:20 PM
The voter-fraud commission relies on some really dodgy studies (https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21725348-one-them-cited-mr-kobach-based-sample-37-respondents-voter-fraud)

"One of them, cited by Mr Kobach, is based on a sample of 37 respondents"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 24, 2017, 11:51:08 PM
When conservatives talk about fighting the virtually non-existent problem of "voter fraud" what they're really talking about is disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who are more likely to vote Democrat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 25, 2017, 12:21:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 24, 2017, 11:51:08 PM
When conservatives talk about fighting the virtually non-existent problem of "voter fraud" what they're really talking about is disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who are more likely to vote Democrat.
Black men are disenfranchised by the prison system. It is also bad for the economy. But prison companies are big donors to the GOP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 25, 2017, 03:11:19 AM
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/illinois/articles/2017-03-11/new-law-aimed-at-reducing-illinois-prison-population


Youre painting in very broad strokes there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 25, 2017, 12:24:41 PM
Good to see John McCain is a hero again now that he's voting for Trump. . . that whole fighting for his Country and getting caught and tortured wasn't much to be fair!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on July 25, 2017, 03:36:01 PM
Right, for once leaving aside left and right, capitalist and socialist, Dems and Republicans, does ANYONE (stew, whitey, fox - you're included here) have a f**king clue what Trump was on about in his address to the Boy Scout Jamboree?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 25, 2017, 03:54:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 24, 2017, 11:51:08 PM
When conservatives talk about fighting the virtually non-existent problem of "voter fraud" what they're really talking about is disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who are more likely to vote Democrat.

Oh dear lord. No - it's making sure that a legitimate form of ID is used in order to vote and prevent fraud.
If democrats get their way anyone who rolls up with a Taco Bell or Popeyes loyalty card will have a vote.

You have to ask yourself if voting is important to citizens why they won't obtain the correct paperwork in order to do so.
Surely not having any form of valid ID means there's something quite wrong with your existence.

of course you have to bring race into this. Nothing of the sort. This applies across the board to everyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 25, 2017, 04:45:43 PM
QuoteSurely not having any form of valid ID means there's something quite wrong with your existence.

Being  a stay at home, what are legitamate forms of ID that would be valid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 25, 2017, 05:55:16 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 25, 2017, 03:36:01 PM
Right, for once leaving aside left and right, capitalist and socialist, Dems and Republicans, does ANYONE (stew, whitey, fox - you're included here) have a f**king clue what Trump was on about in his address to the Boy Scout Jamboree?!

He was bragging to those kids about the time one of his mates got the ride on a yacht.

If I had kids I'd keep them well away from that creep.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 25, 2017, 05:56:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 25, 2017, 03:54:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 24, 2017, 11:51:08 PM
When conservatives talk about fighting the virtually non-existent problem of "voter fraud" what they're really talking about is disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who are more likely to vote Democrat.

Oh dear lord. No - it's making sure that a legitimate form of ID is used in order to vote and prevent fraud.
If democrats get their way anyone who rolls up with a Taco Bell or Popeyes loyalty card will have a vote.

You have to ask yourself if voting is important to citizens why they won't obtain the correct paperwork in order to do so.
Surely not having any form of valid ID means there's something quite wrong with your existence.

of course you have to bring race into this. Nothing of the sort. This applies across the board to everyone.

How many cases of voter fraud has there ever been?

If conservatives have their way the only people able to vote will be the descendants of slave owners.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 25, 2017, 07:32:41 PM
Foxy, you dismiss and then ignore my claim about voter suppression, hanging your hat , instead, on virtually non-existent voter fraud and and the need for strict voter ID laws to combat that virulent non-existent fraud. 

But there are many, many ways in which legitimate voters are deliberately and systematically disenfranchised.

You're familiar with the history of N. Ireland, right?  Then you're familiar with gerrymandering. Well, gerrymandering, here in the States, is as popular as NASCAR and gun-toting.

And don't forget its kin, redistricting, all carefully plotted to allow a minority (usually white) to hold sway over a majority (usually not white).

Then, there are the multitudinous schemes to dissuade people from voting (surprise, surprise, Gomer, but these people also tend either to be non-white, or young)--this includes drastically reducing the number of polling sites, especially in black neighborhoods, which puts an undue burden on the poor.  If they can make it to the site, then they have to suffer waits of hours upon hours, which time the working poor cannot give up.  Then, there's the relocating of polling sites far from where the would-be voters live.  That occurred, for example, in regard to Appalachian State U. in North Carolina, a largely black college.  I believe the nearest, but distant, polling venue there could accommodate just over 30-odd cars, just about the right number of spaces for a university.  BTW, if you want to research voter suppression, you could spend all your time on North Carolina alone.

Then there's the changing of polling hours, or the elimination of early voting days, which more adversely affects the poor, as does prohibitions on same-day registration and voting.

Similarly, bans on pre-registering teens who will be 18 on voting day also slashes the potential electorate.  People cry about voter apathy, but shouldn't a democracy be encouraging voters to vote rather than chasing them away.

Then, of course, in Florida, for example, there are the former prison inmates who have served their time and are not allowed to vote.  And, shock, horror, don't you know that the US has made an industry of incarcerating minorities. Make America's Prisons Great Again.

Which brings me back to voter ID laws.  Sometimes a law can be just on its face but unjust in its intention or application.  Such is the case with voter ID laws, seemingly reasonable but designed to disenfranchise.  In Wisconsin, DJT won by 22,000 votes, but upwards of 300,000 were prevented from voting.  Or you have Alabama where DMVs (where you get these voter IDs) were closed in a number of black neighborhoods.  Or Texas, where a gun license counts as acceptable ID, but a state-issued student ID does not. Golly. Remember, these are almost no examples of voter fraud, but it must be combatted fiercely.

Voter ID laws are today's version of the Jim Crow era poll tax.  To pretend otherwise is to be naive, obtuse, or, more likely, racist. 

There are lots and lots of examples of voter suppression.  I hope the Supreme Court has still enough decent souls left when it takes up the issue of gerrymandering in the days ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on July 25, 2017, 10:56:06 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 25, 2017, 07:32:41 PM
Foxy, you dismiss and then ignore my claim about voter suppression, hanging your hat , instead, on virtually non-existent voter fraud and and the need for strict voter ID laws to combat that virulent non-existent fraud. 

But there are many, many ways in which legitimate voters are deliberately and systematically disenfranchised.

You're familiar with the history of N. Ireland, right?  Then you're familiar with gerrymandering. Well, gerrymandering, here in the States, is as popular as NASCAR and gun-toting.

And don't forget its kin, redistricting, all carefully plotted to allow a minority (usually white) to hold sway over a majority (usually not white).

Then, there are the multitudinous schemes to dissuade people from voting (surprise, surprise, Gomer, but these people also tend either to be non-white, or young)--this includes drastically reducing the number of polling sites, especially in black neighborhoods, which puts an undue burden on the poor.  If they can make it to the site, then they have to suffer waits of hours upon hours, which time the working poor cannot give up.  Then, there's the relocating of polling sites far from where the would-be voters live.  That occurred, for example, in regard to Appalachian State U. in North Carolina, a largely black college.  I believe the nearest, but distant, polling venue there could accommodate just over 30-odd cars, just about the right number of spaces for a university.  BTW, if you want to research voter suppression, you could spend all your time on North Carolina alone.

Then there's the changing of polling hours, or the elimination of early voting days, which more adversely affects the poor, as does prohibitions on same-day registration and voting.

Similarly, bans on pre-registering teens who will be 18 on voting day also slashes the potential electorate.  People cry about voter apathy, but shouldn't a democracy be encouraging voters to vote rather than chasing them away.

Then, of course, in Florida, for example, there are the former prison inmates who have served their time and are not allowed to vote.  And, shock, horror, don't you know that the US has made an industry of incarcerating minorities. Make America's Prisons Great Again.

Which brings me back to voter ID laws.  Sometimes a law can be just on its face but unjust in its intention or application.  Such is the case with voter ID laws, seemingly reasonable but designed to disenfranchise.  In Wisconsin, DJT won by 22,000 votes, but upwards of 300,000 were prevented from voting.  Or you have Alabama where DMVs (where you get these voter IDs) were closed in a number of black neighborhoods.  Or Texas, where a gun license counts as acceptable ID, but a state-issued student ID does not. Golly. Remember, these are almost no examples of voter fraud, but it must be combatted fiercely.

Voter ID laws are today's version of the Jim Crow era poll tax.  To pretend otherwise is to be naive, obtuse, or, more likely, racist. 

There are lots and lots of examples of voter suppression.  I hope the Supreme Court has still enough decent souls left when it takes up the issue of gerrymandering in the days ahead.

Oh jesus - I'm assuming the DMVs in question were closed for the last 4 years so voters could never obtain their IDs.
Again, if people were motivated to vote they would secure some form of ID which would allow them to do so. Why is it so scary to request that you can validate a voter. Thats a way bigger issue than the Russia nonsense. You'd think the democrats might be scared of being caught out with graveyard voters ;)

Not enough parking spaces to vote!! Bet that doesn't stop them when they want to go to McDonalds. Polling hours don't suit?? Get out of bed earlier that particular day!

Wah wah wah. Stop making excuses. Get an ID.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 25, 2017, 11:29:36 PM
How many cases of voter fraud are there, Foxy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 26, 2017, 12:11:57 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 25, 2017, 10:56:06 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 25, 2017, 07:32:41 PM
Foxy, you dismiss and then ignore my claim about voter suppression, hanging your hat , instead, on virtually non-existent voter fraud and and the need for strict voter ID laws to combat that virulent non-existent fraud. 

But there are many, many ways in which legitimate voters are deliberately and systematically disenfranchised.

You're familiar with the history of N. Ireland, right?  Then you're familiar with gerrymandering. Well, gerrymandering, here in the States, is as popular as NASCAR and gun-toting.

And don't forget its kin, redistricting, all carefully plotted to allow a minority (usually white) to hold sway over a majority (usually not white).

Then, there are the multitudinous schemes to dissuade people from voting (surprise, surprise, Gomer, but these people also tend either to be non-white, or young)--this includes drastically reducing the number of polling sites, especially in black neighborhoods, which puts an undue burden on the poor.  If they can make it to the site, then they have to suffer waits of hours upon hours, which time the working poor cannot give up.  Then, there's the relocating of polling sites far from where the would-be voters live.  That occurred, for example, in regard to Appalachian State U. in North Carolina, a largely black college.  I believe the nearest, but distant, polling venue there could accommodate just over 30-odd cars, just about the right number of spaces for a university.  BTW, if you want to research voter suppression, you could spend all your time on North Carolina alone.

Then there's the changing of polling hours, or the elimination of early voting days, which more adversely affects the poor, as does prohibitions on same-day registration and voting.

Similarly, bans on pre-registering teens who will be 18 on voting day also slashes the potential electorate.  People cry about voter apathy, but shouldn't a democracy be encouraging voters to vote rather than chasing them away.

Then, of course, in Florida, for example, there are the former prison inmates who have served their time and are not allowed to vote.  And, shock, horror, don't you know that the US has made an industry of incarcerating minorities. Make America's Prisons Great Again.

Which brings me back to voter ID laws.  Sometimes a law can be just on its face but unjust in its intention or application.  Such is the case with voter ID laws, seemingly reasonable but designed to disenfranchise.  In Wisconsin, DJT won by 22,000 votes, but upwards of 300,000 were prevented from voting.  Or you have Alabama where DMVs (where you get these voter IDs) were closed in a number of black neighborhoods.  Or Texas, where a gun license counts as acceptable ID, but a state-issued student ID does not. Golly. Remember, these are almost no examples of voter fraud, but it must be combatted fiercely.

Voter ID laws are today's version of the Jim Crow era poll tax.  To pretend otherwise is to be naive, obtuse, or, more likely, racist. 

There are lots and lots of examples of voter suppression.  I hope the Supreme Court has still enough decent souls left when it takes up the issue of gerrymandering in the days ahead.

Oh jesus - I'm assuming the DMVs in question were closed for the last 4 years so voters could never obtain their IDs.
Again, if people were motivated to vote they would secure some form of ID which would allow them to do so. Why is it so scary to request that you can validate a voter. Thats a way bigger issue than the Russia nonsense. You'd think the democrats might be scared of being caught out with graveyard voters ;)

Not enough parking spaces to vote!! Bet that doesn't stop them when they want to go to McDonalds. Polling hours don't suit?? Get out of bed earlier that particular day!

Wah wah wah. Stop making excuses. Get an ID.

Oraisteach you are wasting your time trying to convince Foxy with coherent reason and facts... Let's face it there is no racism in the US and the GOP are going to make the middle class wealthy by making sure the Koch Bros get to increase their share of GDP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 26, 2017, 12:49:40 AM
You're absolutely right, omochain.  Denial in the face of evidence.  No, mommy, I didn't eat the chocolate, said the child whose face is smeared with Cadbury's.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 26, 2017, 02:41:13 AM
Al Franken laughs at Scaramucci's use of Trump as a source that Russians didn't hack election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzOxcy3K5tk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 26, 2017, 11:46:21 PM
Cognitive dissonance for Foxy

Fox attacks Trump via Shep Smith and Tucker "the Motherfucker" Carlson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pNQyraHNRY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNDXYC_7pfQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2017, 01:40:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 20, 2017, 03:30:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

What Minneapolis shows us is that there are people carrying guns and badges who shouldn't be

Once again, yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2017, 01:46:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

That isn't the case. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals and BLM. No issue if a black police officer shoots a white person. That's totally fine. It's not racist. She came out of nowhere and the officer was defending himself. Maybe she had a spatula in her hand.
Just like Ferguson eh?
Without the robbery and the assault on the police officer. But let that slide.

Also note that there are no riots, no looting to mark the occasion. I guess those white folk don't want free stuff.

You will have to point out where liberals and BLM said that its ok for a black (or any other race of) cop to shoot a white person. I've obviously missed it.

And on your last idiotic comment, if white people had suffered at the hands of the state and the police the way black people have, there absolutely would be riots.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife)

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting)

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump

You posted this before.

Its no more correct now than it was then.

First, were the males in the Obama admin and Clinton campaign getting paid more for the same jobs?

Second, hypocrisy on the part of a person or even a family (both Kennedys) are irrelevant when it comes to the veracity of actual policies and facts espoused by a political party or movement. That the likes of Susan Collins is exhibiting some measure of sanity and compassion when it comes to the healthcare debate currently taking place doesn't mean that the overall Republican Party leadership and most of its congressional party are serious and realistic about addressing the healthcare issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:24:51 AM
Various GOP politicians are on the record acknowledging (unwittingly or not) that their voter supression tactics are motivated by trying to reduce minority and youth participation, purely because those are Democratic constituencies. The attempts to restrict Sunday voting and the like are only the most obvious manifestations of this.

But the current Kobach mess is about one thing and one thing only - the Travesty in Chief's bruised ego. Its the equivalent of his claims about the inauguration crowds - baseless, bald-faced lying in a deluded attempt to safe face. He doesn't give a flying f**k about vote integrity. He only cares that he lost the popular vote, by a lot, and his fucked up pea brain just can't handle the embarrassment. The longer this Kobach charade goes on, the further off the egomaniac can put facing up to that fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:20:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife)

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting)

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump

You posted this before.

Its no more correct now than it was then.

First, were the males in the Obama admin and Clinton campaign getting paid more for the same jobs?

Second, hypocrisy on the part of a person or even a family (both Kennedys) are irrelevant when it comes to the veracity of actual policies and facts espoused by a political party or movement. That the likes of Susan Collins is exhibiting some measure of sanity and compassion when it comes to the healthcare debate currently taking place doesn't mean that the overall Republican Party leadership and most of its congressional party are serious and realistic about addressing the healthcare issue.

Hypocrites have ZERO credibility

Don't fvckin lecture me about inequality wearing a $12k jacket

Don't lecture me about pay inequLity when your campaign and foundation pay their female staffers less thaN their male staffers

Don't dare lecture me about paying my "fair share" when you and your family use every trick known to mankind to avoid paying YOUR fair share.

Anyone with half a brain knows these sound bites Democrats use are nonsense and are used by Dems to "explain" to their less well informed supporters why they're not getting ahead in life....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 27, 2017, 11:54:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 05:52:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 23, 2017, 05:42:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 23, 2017, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 23, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 06:15:30 PM
Quote from: CiKe on July 22, 2017, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 21, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Who is "Pocohontas" and why are you calling her that?

I believe he is referring to Elizabeth Warren. Senator from Massachusetts. She has a small piece of Native American Dna in her and it is what the right use to denigrate her. She is one of the few people who have taken on Wall Street and won. The right are scared "shitless" of her. Do not understand why Stew is so dismissive, she would be of a similar stripe to Bernie Sanders but smarter and Stew supported Bernie until recently. But I forgot Stew is a perfectly balanced Harps man. He has a chip on both shoulders.


Elizabeth Warren fraudently claimed to be a Native American and took a job at the expense of a "real" minority as a lecturer at Harvard.

I think she got paid close to $400K to teach ONE class at Harvard, yet rants and raves about college affordability and student debt


She had bough foreclosed properties and flipped them for a profit


She lives in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Boston and her house is worth anywhere from $1M to $5M


She is what one would refer to as a limousine liberal.  I actually like some of her ideas, but she would win a gold medal on the Olympics for hypocrisy if sucha competition existed

Can someone not earn a lot of money and live in an expensive house and not care about others? "Anywhere from $1mn to $5mn". That is a helluva range which only goes to show you haven't a clue (nor do I). To care about others should you take a vow of poverty?

Yaaaawwwwwnnn. .......Well if you knew anything about mandatory disclosures....politicians give a range of what various assets are worth....this is the number she submitted...so maybe you are the one who doesn't have a clue

I quite clearly said I didn't have a clue. However, the fact reading is a problem for you might explain how you missed answering the question asked. It might also explain your inability to explore beyond an echo chamber.

Lectues about inequality from 1% wealthy elites who inhabit the Ivory towers ring hollow with me. 

Having lived almost exclusively in Blue States for the past 25 years, I have seen these people in action time and time again........and its not pretty.  Theres a person in my town who has a "We are the 99%" bumper sticker on her Prius.  She and her husband (whos a surgeon) almost litigated their unfortunate neighbor into the poor house. (He had inherited the house from his grandmother). At the heel of the hunt, he had to put his house on the market and then couldnt sell it because the 99%'rs next door were such cvnts no one wanted to live beside them.  THEY then bough the house on the cheap, and promptly knocked it so that they could extend their garden.  Lovely people

Edit:  Last time I checked....they also had an Elizabeth Warren sticker on their car

And ... ?

Elizabeth Warren is a fraud and a phony
OK - I had no idea. Thanks for the information.

Quote
and so are her supporters
Your little parable does was interesting, but don't try to use it as evidence for this conclusion.

Quote
...at least the ones I know
Ah yes.

Absolute classic alt-right diversion. An immigrant mugged an old lady in my town. Therefore immigrants are causing an increase in crime rates. And we know the opposite is true - crime rates are lower in high-immigration areas. But Tucker Carlson's audience won't ever hear that.

I have lived in predominantly blue states for 25 years and my real life experiences have led me to form the opinion that wealthy uber liberals like Elizabeth Warren and Ted Kennedy really dont give a flying fvck about anyone or anything but themselves.  They just peddle a different flavor of bullshit to an equally uneducated and ill informed base

Im sure your past 25 years of life experience would lead to you having opinions about a variety of topics

What my life experience has taught me is that it's not the right or wrong of your argument that defines you. People will assess your opinions by the issues you choose to be concerned about and the people you choose to criticise versus those you don't. The principle used to be stated in the maxim, "show me your company and I'll tell you who you are".

Positing a moral equivalence between the behaviours of Warren and Trump is like getting upset about waiting too long at the manicure salon where a gunman has murdered half the  staff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
Where or when have I ever expressed support for Donald Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 27, 2017, 12:16:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
Where or when have I ever expressed support for Donald Trump?

Never.  You'd be a bernie supporter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2017, 12:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:20:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife)

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting)

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump

You posted this before.

Its no more correct now than it was then.

First, were the males in the Obama admin and Clinton campaign getting paid more for the same jobs?

Second, hypocrisy on the part of a person or even a family (both Kennedys) are irrelevant when it comes to the veracity of actual policies and facts espoused by a political party or movement. That the likes of Susan Collins is exhibiting some measure of sanity and compassion when it comes to the healthcare debate currently taking place doesn't mean that the overall Republican Party leadership and most of its congressional party are serious and realistic about addressing the healthcare issue.

Hypocrites have ZERO credibility

Don't fvckin lecture me about inequality wearing a $12k jacket

Don't lecture me about pay inequLity when your campaign and foundation pay their female staffers less thaN their male staffers

Don't dare lecture me about paying my "fair share" when you and your family use every trick known to mankind to avoid paying YOUR fair share.

Anyone with half a brain knows these sound bites Democrats use are nonsense and are used by Dems to "explain" to their less well informed supporters why they're not getting ahead in life....

What does a 12K jacket have to do with anything?

Every person running for president is well off. Even Bernie, while much less wealthy than your average senator, is a millionaire.

This jacket nonsense is just a red herring. Simple ad hominen attack.

And once again, given that you're repeating it yet again, was this pay disparity you're upset about for people doing the same or similar jobs or with the same experience and expertise?

And given that you're on the record as supporting Romney, who said it would basically be unpatriotic to pay a cent more in taxes than he was legally required to do, your "outrage" once again smacks of attacking the man so you don't have to deal with the message.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 27, 2017, 12:39:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
Where or when have I ever expressed support for Donald Trump?

Who, where or when, has said you did?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 01:21:42 PM
You just did
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 12:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:20:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife)

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting)

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump

You posted this before.

Its no more correct now than it was then.

First, were the males in the Obama admin and Clinton campaign getting paid more for the same jobs?

Second, hypocrisy on the part of a person or even a family (both Kennedys) are irrelevant when it comes to the veracity of actual policies and facts espoused by a political party or movement. That the likes of Susan Collins is exhibiting some measure of sanity and compassion when it comes to the healthcare debate currently taking place doesn't mean that the overall Republican Party leadership and most of its congressional party are serious and realistic about addressing the healthcare issue.

Hypocrites have ZERO credibility

Don't fvckin lecture me about inequality wearing a $12k jacket

Don't lecture me about pay inequLity when your campaign and foundation pay their female staffers less thaN their male staffers

Don't dare lecture me about paying my "fair share" when you and your family use every trick known to mankind to avoid paying YOUR fair share.

Anyone with half a brain knows these sound bites Democrats use are nonsense and are used by Dems to "explain" to their less well informed supporters why they're not getting ahead in life....

What does a 12K jacket have to do with anything?

Every person running for president is well off. Even Bernie, while much less wealthy than your average senator, is a millionaire.

This jacket nonsense is just a red herring. Simple ad hominen attack.

And once again, given that you're repeating it yet again, was this pay disparity you're upset about for people doing the same or similar jobs or with the same experience and expertise?

And given that you're on the record as supporting Romney, who said it would basically be unpatriotic to pay a cent more in taxes than he was legally required to do, your "outrage" once again smacks of attacking the man so you don't have to deal with the message.


The Democrats have you well and truely codded.

They play this class warfare card as a way to gin up support among their less well informed supporters, yet they themselves participate in exactly the same 1% behaviors that they find so offensive among Republicans. 

They are essentially telling poor people that they are poor because other people (ie Republicans) are rich, which if you have live in this country for more than 10 minutes you know is a crock
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on July 27, 2017, 02:07:06 PM
Considering Seafoids comments on the number of US Army personnel coming back to the US minus their bits;

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/07/27/trump-to-allow-current-transgender-military-personnel-to-sweep-for-landmines/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/07/27/trump-to-allow-current-transgender-military-personnel-to-sweep-for-landmines/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:23:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 12:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:20:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife)

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting)

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump

You posted this before.

Its no more correct now than it was then.

First, were the males in the Obama admin and Clinton campaign getting paid more for the same jobs?

Second, hypocrisy on the part of a person or even a family (both Kennedys) are irrelevant when it comes to the veracity of actual policies and facts espoused by a political party or movement. That the likes of Susan Collins is exhibiting some measure of sanity and compassion when it comes to the healthcare debate currently taking place doesn't mean that the overall Republican Party leadership and most of its congressional party are serious and realistic about addressing the healthcare issue.

Hypocrites have ZERO credibility

Don't fvckin lecture me about inequality wearing a $12k jacket

Don't lecture me about pay inequLity when your campaign and foundation pay their female staffers less thaN their male staffers

Don't dare lecture me about paying my "fair share" when you and your family use every trick known to mankind to avoid paying YOUR fair share.

Anyone with half a brain knows these sound bites Democrats use are nonsense and are used by Dems to "explain" to their less well informed supporters why they're not getting ahead in life....

What does a 12K jacket have to do with anything?

Every person running for president is well off. Even Bernie, while much less wealthy than your average senator, is a millionaire.

This jacket nonsense is just a red herring. Simple ad hominen attack.

And once again, given that you're repeating it yet again, was this pay disparity you're upset about for people doing the same or similar jobs or with the same experience and expertise?

And given that you're on the record as supporting Romney, who said it would basically be unpatriotic to pay a cent more in taxes than he was legally required to do, your "outrage" once again smacks of attacking the man so you don't have to deal with the message.


The Democrats have you well and truely codded.

They play this class warfare card as a way to gin up support among their less well informed supporters, yet they themselves participate in exactly the same 1% behaviors that they find so offensive among Republicans. 

They are essentially telling poor people that they are poor because other people (ie Republicans) are rich, which if you have live in this country for more than 10 minutes you know is a crock

If the Dems have me "truly codded", it shouldn't be too difficult for you to address my points instead of ignoring them.

And I fail to see how advocating for progressive tax and public services/safety net and gay rights and environmental protection amount to fraudulent policies designed to hoodwink.

Especially coming from a man who supports the party of alternative facts which is beholden to conspiracy theories about everything from vote fraud to evolution to climate change to sharia law to martial law to the gay agenda and Agenda 21.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 27, 2017, 02:32:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 01:21:42 PM
You just did

I did? Where? When?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 02:42:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:23:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 12:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:20:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife)

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting)

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump

You posted this before.

Its no more correct now than it was then.

First, were the males in the Obama admin and Clinton campaign getting paid more for the same jobs?

Second, hypocrisy on the part of a person or even a family (both Kennedys) are irrelevant when it comes to the veracity of actual policies and facts espoused by a political party or movement. That the likes of Susan Collins is exhibiting some measure of sanity and compassion when it comes to the healthcare debate currently taking place doesn't mean that the overall Republican Party leadership and most of its congressional party are serious and realistic about addressing the healthcare issue.

Hypocrites have ZERO credibility

Don't fvckin lecture me about inequality wearing a $12k jacket

Don't lecture me about pay inequLity when your campaign and foundation pay their female staffers less thaN their male staffers

Don't dare lecture me about paying my "fair share" when you and your family use every trick known to mankind to avoid paying YOUR fair share.

Anyone with half a brain knows these sound bites Democrats use are nonsense and are used by Dems to "explain" to their less well informed supporters why they're not getting ahead in life....

What does a 12K jacket have to do with anything?

Every person running for president is well off. Even Bernie, while much less wealthy than your average senator, is a millionaire.

This jacket nonsense is just a red herring. Simple ad hominen attack.

And once again, given that you're repeating it yet again, was this pay disparity you're upset about for people doing the same or similar jobs or with the same experience and expertise?

And given that you're on the record as supporting Romney, who said it would basically be unpatriotic to pay a cent more in taxes than he was legally required to do, your "outrage" once again smacks of attacking the man so you don't have to deal with the message.


The Democrats have you well and truely codded.

They play this class warfare card as a way to gin up support among their less well informed supporters, yet they themselves participate in exactly the same 1% behaviors that they find so offensive among Republicans. 

They are essentially telling poor people that they are poor because other people (ie Republicans) are rich, which if you have live in this country for more than 10 minutes you know is a crock

If the Dems have me "truly codded", it shouldn't be too difficult for you to address my points instead of ignoring them.

And I fail to see how advocating for progressive tax and public services/safety net and gay rights and environmental protection amount to fraudulent policies designed to hoodwink.

Especially coming from a man who supports the party of alternative facts which is beholden to conspiracy theories about everything from vote fraud to evolution to climate change to sharia law to martial law to the gay agenda and Agenda 21.


You keep chaninging the subject.

The reason I dislike so many Democratic politicians is that they are hypocrites, and in my view hypocrites have no credibility. They are classic "Do as I say, not do as I do" types, because what they do is exactly what the "1% Republicans" do.

Just because I despise the false rhetoric perpetrated by the likes of Hillary Clintonand Elizabeth Warren does not mean I automatically agree with everything the Republican Party stands for. In fact I probably agree with the Democrats on more issues than I disagree with them on....eg climate, guns, minimum wage, LGBT rights, policing.

And by the way I'm not a Republican, I'm a conservative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 27, 2017, 02:32:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 01:21:42 PM
You just did

I did? Where? When?

Your own words

"Positing a moral equivalence between the behaviours of Warren and Trump is like getting upset about waiting too long at the manicure salon where a gunman has murdered half the  staff."

I never did any such thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 27, 2017, 02:56:30 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on July 27, 2017, 02:07:06 PM
Considering Seafoids comments on the number of US Army personnel coming back to the US minus their bits;

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/07/27/trump-to-allow-current-transgender-military-personnel-to-sweep-for-landmines/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/07/27/trump-to-allow-current-transgender-military-personnel-to-sweep-for-landmines/)
That's not funny at all.

some of those videos of mangled soldiers minus their dangly bits are very hard to watch
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2017, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 02:42:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:23:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 12:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:20:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 02:00:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 23, 2017, 01:59:22 AM
So Republicans are for wage inequality, but the Obama White House and the Clinton Campaign BOTH pay their female staff less than their male staff

Republican policies cause inequality, yet Hillary gives us all a lecture about inequality while wearing a $12K jacket

Republicans wage war against women, yet Democrats eulogize a man like Ted Kennedy who left a young woman to drown (a young woman he was screwing, while married to his wife)

The Republicans are all for fossil fuel, yet Democrats like the Kennedys and others throw a $hit fit when an offshore wind farm is planned for Nantucket Sound (because it will spoil their yachting)

Joe Scarborough uses a great term all the time....self awareness.  Do the Democrats not realise they have become a parody of themselves. They foisted a candidate onto the ballot who was so distasteful, that people who voted for Barack Obama TWICE, turned sides and voted for Donald fvckin Trump

You posted this before.

Its no more correct now than it was then.

First, were the males in the Obama admin and Clinton campaign getting paid more for the same jobs?

Second, hypocrisy on the part of a person or even a family (both Kennedys) are irrelevant when it comes to the veracity of actual policies and facts espoused by a political party or movement. That the likes of Susan Collins is exhibiting some measure of sanity and compassion when it comes to the healthcare debate currently taking place doesn't mean that the overall Republican Party leadership and most of its congressional party are serious and realistic about addressing the healthcare issue.

Hypocrites have ZERO credibility

Don't fvckin lecture me about inequality wearing a $12k jacket

Don't lecture me about pay inequLity when your campaign and foundation pay their female staffers less thaN their male staffers

Don't dare lecture me about paying my "fair share" when you and your family use every trick known to mankind to avoid paying YOUR fair share.

Anyone with half a brain knows these sound bites Democrats use are nonsense and are used by Dems to "explain" to their less well informed supporters why they're not getting ahead in life....

What does a 12K jacket have to do with anything?

Every person running for president is well off. Even Bernie, while much less wealthy than your average senator, is a millionaire.

This jacket nonsense is just a red herring. Simple ad hominen attack.

And once again, given that you're repeating it yet again, was this pay disparity you're upset about for people doing the same or similar jobs or with the same experience and expertise?

And given that you're on the record as supporting Romney, who said it would basically be unpatriotic to pay a cent more in taxes than he was legally required to do, your "outrage" once again smacks of attacking the man so you don't have to deal with the message.


The Democrats have you well and truely codded.

They play this class warfare card as a way to gin up support among their less well informed supporters, yet they themselves participate in exactly the same 1% behaviors that they find so offensive among Republicans. 

They are essentially telling poor people that they are poor because other people (ie Republicans) are rich, which if you have live in this country for more than 10 minutes you know is a crock

If the Dems have me "truly codded", it shouldn't be too difficult for you to address my points instead of ignoring them.

And I fail to see how advocating for progressive tax and public services/safety net and gay rights and environmental protection amount to fraudulent policies designed to hoodwink.

Especially coming from a man who supports the party of alternative facts which is beholden to conspiracy theories about everything from vote fraud to evolution to climate change to sharia law to martial law to the gay agenda and Agenda 21.


You keep chaninging the subject.

The reason I dislike so many Democratic politicians is that they are hypocrites, and in my view hypocrites have no credibility. They are classic "Do as I say, not do as I do" types, because what they do is exactly what the "1% Republicans" do.

Just because I despise the false rhetoric perpetrated by the likes of Hillary Clintonand Elizabeth Warren does not mean I automatically agree with everything the Republican Party stands for. In fact I probably agree with the Democrats on more issues than I disagree with them on....eg climate, guns, minimum wage, LGBT rights, policing.

And by the way I'm not a Republican, I'm a conservative.

Where have I changed the subject?

I've made valid points about the wealth of the individual candidate being irrelevant given that they're ALL wealthy. The policies they run on and implement are what matters. Warren fought for and got the consumer protection agency, which has done real good for real people. Republicans (or conservatives if you prefer) are trying to defang it. All the whining and calling her Pocahontas in the world doesn't alter that, nor does the fact that she is wealthy change the fact that she tried to help citizens against the legal might of the corporate world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 27, 2017, 03:29:42 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ivanka-faces-backlash-after-trans-military-ban

In June, Ivanka Trump tweeted, "I am proud to support my LGBTQ friends and the LGBTQ Americans who have made immense contributions to our society and economy."

The tweet received some initial backlash when Twitter users called Ivanka Trump out for supporting "the most anti-LGBTQ+ presidential ticket in recent times," as one Twitter user put it, adding, "Your words mean nothing to us."

After President Trump announced the transgender military ban Wednesday, his daughter's statement faced even more scrutiny for what some saw as hollow words.

President Trump faced backlash of his own for the ban, which was announced on the same day as the anniversary of former president Harry Truman desegregating the armed services, and many active transgender service members expressed dismay over the decision.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 03:30:15 PM
I find it hilarious that whitey thinks being a hypocrite is the sole preserve of Democrats . . . Republicans have probably served up the most hypocritical POTUS in history!!

He's going to make sure everyone in the country is covered on Healthcare with reduced premiums but now he's in office he's trying to kick 27million Americans off their insurance.

Having said he is the most LGBTQ friendly Presidential candidate there has ever been he's now decided to kick transgender people out of the military.

Save your hypocrisy speeches for your next Townhall with your Republican "Conservative" mates!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant

If not the case why do you hammer Dems for it and no Republicans??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2017, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 01:46:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

That isn't the case. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals and BLM. No issue if a black police officer shoots a white person. That's totally fine. It's not racist. She came out of nowhere and the officer was defending himself. Maybe she had a spatula in her hand.
Just like Ferguson eh?
Without the robbery and the assault on the police officer. But let that slide.

Also note that there are no riots, no looting to mark the occasion. I guess those white folk don't want free stuff.

You will have to point out where liberals and BLM said that its ok for a black (or any other race of) cop to shoot a white person. I've obviously missed it.

And on your last idiotic comment, if white people had suffered at the hands of the state and the police the way black people have, there absolutely would be riots.

Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon! Ring a bell?

f**k blm.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2017, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2017, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 01:46:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

That isn't the case. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals and BLM. No issue if a black police officer shoots a white person. That's totally fine. It's not racist. She came out of nowhere and the officer was defending himself. Maybe she had a spatula in her hand.
Just like Ferguson eh?
Without the robbery and the assault on the police officer. But let that slide.

Also note that there are no riots, no looting to mark the occasion. I guess those white folk don't want free stuff.

You will have to point out where liberals and BLM said that its ok for a black (or any other race of) cop to shoot a white person. I've obviously missed it.

And on your last idiotic comment, if white people had suffered at the hands of the state and the police the way black people have, there absolutely would be riots.

Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon! Ring a bell?

f**k blm.

And your little anecdote has what, exactly, to do with my comment?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant

If not the case why do you hammer Dems for it and no Republicans??!!


Oh believe me there are plenty of mega-hypocrites in the Republican Party too......just the things issues they are hypocritical about are not the main issues they attack the Democrats on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant

If not the case why do you hammer Dems for it and no Republicans??!!


Oh believe me there are plenty of mega-hypocrites in the Republican Party too......just the things issues they are hypocritical about are not the main issues they attack the Democrats on.

So what's the real problem here?

That Democratic politicians advocate for progressive economic policies or that they're rich while doing so?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 27, 2017, 07:14:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 27, 2017, 02:32:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 01:21:42 PM
You just did

I did? Where? When?

Your own words

"Positing a moral equivalence between the behaviours of Warren and Trump is like getting upset about waiting too long at the manicure salon where a gunman has murdered half the  staff."

I never did any such thing

So, as I asked, where did I say you supported Trump? Don't pretend you missed the point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 08:44:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 27, 2017, 07:14:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 27, 2017, 02:32:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 01:21:42 PM
You just did

I did? Where? When?

Your own words

"Positing a moral equivalence between the behaviours of Warren and Trump is like getting upset about waiting too long at the manicure salon where a gunman has murdered half the  staff."

I never did any such thing

So, as I asked, where did I say you supported Trump? Don't pretend you missed the point.

By you stating that I "Positied a moral equivalence between the behaviors of Elizabeth Warren and Trump" you are implying I am in some way supporting or defending Donald Trump..I never did any such thing.

I detest Trump and I am embarrassed that he was elected President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 27, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant

If not the case why do you hammer Dems for it and no Republicans??!!


Oh believe me there are plenty of mega-hypocrites in the Republican Party too......just the things issues they are hypocritical about are not the main issues they attack the Democrats on.

So what's the real problem here?

That Democratic politicians advocate for progressive economic policies or that they're rich while doing so?

Neither......The issue for me is that if you want to lecture on an issue, at least let it be an issue where your and your surrogates' actions match your words. If they don't, it's just meaningless and empty empty rhetoric your using to whip low information voters up into a lather.

Eg. Donald Trump is an absolute disgrace when it comes to his treatment of women, but you then give Bill Clinton a standing ovation every time he gives a speech.

If Joe Kennedy III gave a speech about the gender pay gap I would be willing to listen...I might not agree with him, but at least I'd listen. If Hillary Clinton gave the same speech, I would not listen because her campaign and the Clinton Foundation pay their female staffers less than their male staffers. Likewise, Elizabeth Warren got paid more for teaching 2/3 classes at Harvard than the Dean of The  Medical School or the Dean of the Business School so I would not be interested in her opinions either.  I'm interested in and support her positions on numerous other topics, but they tend not to be the topics she leads with. She goes for the easy mark
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 27, 2017, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2017, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 01:46:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

That isn't the case. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals and BLM. No issue if a black police officer shoots a white person. That's totally fine. It's not racist. She came out of nowhere and the officer was defending himself. Maybe she had a spatula in her hand.
Just like Ferguson eh?
Without the robbery and the assault on the police officer. But let that slide.

Also note that there are no riots, no looting to mark the occasion. I guess those white folk don't want free stuff.

You will have to point out where liberals and BLM said that its ok for a black (or any other race of) cop to shoot a white person. I've obviously missed it.

And on your last idiotic comment, if white people had suffered at the hands of the state and the police the way black people have, there absolutely would be riots.

Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon! Ring a bell?

f**k blm.

And your little anecdote has what, exactly, to do with my comment?

BLM are responsible for their supporters killing innocent cops, you seem to endorse these knackers! Speaks volumes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 27, 2017, 11:02:10 PM
This new Comms guy sounds level headed hahahahahaha

An actual WH employee gave this interview to a journalist

http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon

Quote"I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own c**k," he said, speaking of Trump's chief strategist. "I'm not trying to build my own brand off the f**king strength of the President. I'm here to serve the country." (Bannon declined to comment.)

Quote"Reince is a f**king paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac. 'Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the f**king thing and see if I can c**k-block these people the way I c**k-blocked Scaramucci for six months.'"

"They're trying to resist me, but it's not going to work. I've done nothing wrong on my financial disclosures, so they're going to have to go f**k themselves."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 27, 2017, 11:38:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 27, 2017, 11:02:10 PM
This new Comms guy sounds level headed hahahahahaha

An actual WH employee gave this interview to a journalist

http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon

Quote"I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own c**k," he said, speaking of Trump's chief strategist. "I'm not trying to build my own brand off the f**king strength of the President. I'm here to serve the country." (Bannon declined to comment.)

Quote"Reince is a f**king paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac. 'Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the f**king thing and see if I can c**k-block these people the way I c**k-blocked Scaramucci for six months.'"

"They're trying to resist me, but it's not going to work. I've done nothing wrong on my financial disclosures, so they're going to have to go f**k themselves."
The Mooch on CNN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRkwbj7Wp8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 28, 2017, 01:35:05 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 27, 2017, 11:02:10 PM
This new Comms guy sounds level headed hahahahahaha

An actual WH employee gave this interview to a journalist

http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon

Quote"I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own c**k," he said, speaking of Trump's chief strategist. "I'm not trying to build my own brand off the f**king strength of the President. I'm here to serve the country." (Bannon declined to comment.)

Quote"Reince is a f**king paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac. 'Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the f**king thing and see if I can c**k-block these people the way I c**k-blocked Scaramucci for six months.'"

"They're trying to resist me, but it's not going to work. I've done nothing wrong on my financial disclosures, so they're going to have to go f**k themselves."

You can clearly get good coke in Washington.

Scaramucci is trying to literally sniff out the truth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magpie seanie on July 28, 2017, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2017, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2017, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 01:46:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

That isn't the case. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals and BLM. No issue if a black police officer shoots a white person. That's totally fine. It's not racist. She came out of nowhere and the officer was defending himself. Maybe she had a spatula in her hand.
Just like Ferguson eh?
Without the robbery and the assault on the police officer. But let that slide.

Also note that there are no riots, no looting to mark the occasion. I guess those white folk don't want free stuff.

You will have to point out where liberals and BLM said that its ok for a black (or any other race of) cop to shoot a white person. I've obviously missed it.

And on your last idiotic comment, if white people had suffered at the hands of the state and the police the way black people have, there absolutely would be riots.

Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon! Ring a bell?

f**k blm.

And your little anecdote has what, exactly, to do with my comment?

BLM are responsible for their supporters killing innocent cops, you seem to endorse these knackers! Speaks volumes.

You endorse the cops who kill innocent black kids with this type of talk. You're completely deluded if you think BLM are responsible for the death of policemen. You may as well blame the Civil Rights Movement in the North for the IRA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 10:51:50 AM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2017, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: stew on July 27, 2017, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 01:46:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 20, 2017, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on July 19, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
How come the media aren't reporting the riots in Minneapolis after that policeman shot the unarmed woman?

j70, Eamon and usual liberals - you must be outraged surely.

Where's Black Lives Matter on this one?

Yeah, I am outraged and feel awful for that poor woman, her fiance and her family.

You, on the other hand, see some sort of political advantage apparently, popping your head up above the parapet after weeks of silence to once again stick the boot in on black people.

That isn't the case. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals and BLM. No issue if a black police officer shoots a white person. That's totally fine. It's not racist. She came out of nowhere and the officer was defending himself. Maybe she had a spatula in her hand.
Just like Ferguson eh?
Without the robbery and the assault on the police officer. But let that slide.

Also note that there are no riots, no looting to mark the occasion. I guess those white folk don't want free stuff.

You will have to point out where liberals and BLM said that its ok for a black (or any other race of) cop to shoot a white person. I've obviously missed it.

And on your last idiotic comment, if white people had suffered at the hands of the state and the police the way black people have, there absolutely would be riots.

Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon! Ring a bell?

f**k blm.

And your little anecdote has what, exactly, to do with my comment?

BLM are responsible for their supporters killing innocent cops, you seem to endorse these knackers! Speaks volumes.

Only to your deranged little mind stew.

But go ahead and expand on your thesis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 10:57:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant

If not the case why do you hammer Dems for it and no Republicans??!!


Oh believe me there are plenty of mega-hypocrites in the Republican Party too......just the things issues they are hypocritical about are not the main issues they attack the Democrats on.

So what's the real problem here?

That Democratic politicians advocate for progressive economic policies or that they're rich while doing so?

Neither......The issue for me is that if you want to lecture on an issue, at least let it be an issue where your and your surrogates' actions match your words. If they don't, it's just meaningless and empty empty rhetoric your using to whip low information voters up into a lather.

Eg. Donald Trump is an absolute disgrace when it comes to his treatment of women, but you then give Bill Clinton a standing ovation every time he gives a speech.

If Joe Kennedy III gave a speech about the gender pay gap I would be willing to listen...I might not agree with him, but at least I'd listen. If Hillary Clinton gave the same speech, I would not listen because her campaign and the Clinton Foundation pay their female staffers less than their male staffers. Likewise, Elizabeth Warren got paid more for teaching 2/3 classes at Harvard than the Dean of The  Medical School or the Dean of the Business School so I would not be interested in her opinions either.  I'm interested in and support her positions on numerous other topics, but they tend not to be the topics she leads with. She goes for the easy mark

1. You are supposed to be a conservative, so what is your objection to Warren being paid whatever it is she was paid by Harvard?

2. For the THIRD time in the past day, are these Clinton female staffers getting paid less for the same work/expertise?

3. Objections to Trump go way above and beyond his attitude towards women, which you absolutely know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magpie seanie on July 28, 2017, 11:03:21 AM
Fair play to McCain for backing the side of sense. Trump's administration has been an utter shambles to this point. Even worse that I could have imagined. Scaramucci seems to be like he looks - a two bit thug punk out of a mafia film. Foul mouthed tirades against colleagues. The whole thing is unravelling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 11:07:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 28, 2017, 01:35:05 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 27, 2017, 11:02:10 PM
This new Comms guy sounds level headed hahahahahaha

An actual WH employee gave this interview to a journalist

http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon

Quote"I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own c**k," he said, speaking of Trump's chief strategist. "I'm not trying to build my own brand off the f**king strength of the President. I'm here to serve the country." (Bannon declined to comment.)

Quote"Reince is a f**king paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac. 'Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the f**king thing and see if I can c**k-block these people the way I c**k-blocked Scaramucci for six months.'"

"They're trying to resist me, but it's not going to work. I've done nothing wrong on my financial disclosures, so they're going to have to go f**k themselves."

You can clearly get good coke in Washington.

Scaramucci is trying to literally sniff out the truth.

I used to think, a little fearfully, that Trump would eventually pull himself together and learn how to be an effective president. But it seems we are plumbing new depths each week. Has there ever been anything like THIS week before?

He's publicly humiliating his attorney general, the one man effectively carrying out his odious agenda, purely because he didn't do what it appears Trump brought him in to do: to kill the Russia investigations. The congressional party is starting to revolt on this count.

Tillerson is apparently on the verge of walking away.

He hasn't even nominated people for most of the political appointments across the government.

And the Mooch is swanning around the national media like a coked up moron on a Saturday night, talking about administration colleagues in the most explicit, offensive terms, all apparently with Trump's blessing?? ;D

Who, in the name of christ, is going to even consider working for this freakshow now?

Oh, and the desperate attempts to kill Obamacare ("we will do it on Day One, and it's going to be tremendous!") are failing, miserably.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 11:10:32 AM
And in the above, I forgot to mention the transgender military ban (which apparently he forgot to run by the military).

So much shit going on, and that's just THIS week!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 11:23:05 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 28, 2017, 11:03:21 AM
Fair play to McCain for backing the side of sense. Trump's administration has been an utter shambles to this point. Even worse that I could have imagined. Scaramucci seems to be like he looks - a two bit thug punk out of a mafia film. Foul mouthed tirades against colleagues. The whole thing is unravelling.

And it all appears to be driven by Trump's paranoia and fear of what these investigations might uncover.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 28, 2017, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 11:23:05 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 28, 2017, 11:03:21 AM
Fair play to McCain for backing the side of sense. Trump's administration has been an utter shambles to this point. Even worse that I could have imagined. Scaramucci seems to be like he looks - a two bit thug punk out of a mafia film. Foul mouthed tirades against colleagues. The whole thing is unravelling.

And it all appears to be driven by Trump's paranoia and fear of what these investigations might uncover.

Interesting to see what he does on the Russian sanctions Bill!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 01:31:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 28, 2017, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 11:23:05 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 28, 2017, 11:03:21 AM
Fair play to McCain for backing the side of sense. Trump's administration has been an utter shambles to this point. Even worse that I could have imagined. Scaramucci seems to be like he looks - a two bit thug punk out of a mafia film. Foul mouthed tirades against colleagues. The whole thing is unravelling.

And it all appears to be driven by Trump's paranoia and fear of what these investigations might uncover.

Interesting to see what he does on the Russian sanctions Bill!

He will sign it. He has no choice.

It got more than 90% support in congress. He will not want the humiliation of a massive f**k-you veto override.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 28, 2017, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 10:57:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant

If not the case why do you hammer Dems for it and no Republicans??!!


Oh believe me there are plenty of mega-hypocrites in the Republican Party too......just the things issues they are hypocritical about are not the main issues they attack the Democrats on.

So what's the real problem here?

That Democratic politicians advocate for progressive economic policies or that they're rich while doing so?

Neither......The issue for me is that if you want to lecture on an issue, at least let it be an issue where your and your surrogates' actions match your words. If they don't, it's just meaningless and empty empty rhetoric your using to whip low information voters up into a lather.

Eg. Donald Trump is an absolute disgrace when it comes to his treatment of women, but you then give Bill Clinton a standing ovation every time he gives a speech.

If Joe Kennedy III gave a speech about the gender pay gap I would be willing to listen...I might not agree with him, but at least I'd listen. If Hillary Clinton gave the same speech, I would not listen because her campaign and the Clinton Foundation pay their female staffers less than their male staffers. Likewise, Elizabeth Warren got paid more for teaching 2/3 classes at Harvard than the Dean of The  Medical School or the Dean of the Business School so I would not be interested in her opinions either.  I'm interested in and support her positions on numerous other topics, but they tend not to be the topics she leads with. She goes for the easy mark

1. You are supposed to be a conservative, so what is your objection to Warren being paid whatever it is she was paid by Harvard?

2. For the THIRD time in the past day, are these Clinton female staffers getting paid less for the same work/expertise?

3. Objections to Trump go way above and beyond his attitude towards women, which you absolutely know.

I don't care what Harvard pays Warren.....that's their business. But when she is getting paid more than the Dean of both the School of Medicine and the School of Business to teach 2/3 classes....her outrage and grandstanding on issues such as pay inequality and college affordability are no more than empty rhetoric she uses to con her base into believing the system is rigged against them.....she is the epitome of the fvckin  system

The whole reason there is a "pay gap" nationally is that men and women do different work, but as with Elizabeth Warrens case, the Democrats use this outrage to create a false perception that the gap exists due to unfairness and misogyny....IT DOESNT....and the pay gap that exists within their own organizations is evidence of that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 01:45:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 10:57:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant

If not the case why do you hammer Dems for it and no Republicans??!!


Oh believe me there are plenty of mega-hypocrites in the Republican Party too......just the things issues they are hypocritical about are not the main issues they attack the Democrats on.

So what's the real problem here?

That Democratic politicians advocate for progressive economic policies or that they're rich while doing so?

Neither......The issue for me is that if you want to lecture on an issue, at least let it be an issue where your and your surrogates' actions match your words. If they don't, it's just meaningless and empty empty rhetoric your using to whip low information voters up into a lather.

Eg. Donald Trump is an absolute disgrace when it comes to his treatment of women, but you then give Bill Clinton a standing ovation every time he gives a speech.

If Joe Kennedy III gave a speech about the gender pay gap I would be willing to listen...I might not agree with him, but at least I'd listen. If Hillary Clinton gave the same speech, I would not listen because her campaign and the Clinton Foundation pay their female staffers less than their male staffers. Likewise, Elizabeth Warren got paid more for teaching 2/3 classes at Harvard than the Dean of The  Medical School or the Dean of the Business School so I would not be interested in her opinions either.  I'm interested in and support her positions on numerous other topics, but they tend not to be the topics she leads with. She goes for the easy mark

1. You are supposed to be a conservative, so what is your objection to Warren being paid whatever it is she was paid by Harvard?

2. For the THIRD time in the past day, are these Clinton female staffers getting paid less for the same work/expertise?

3. Objections to Trump go way above and beyond his attitude towards women, which you absolutely know.

I don't care what Harvard pays Warren.....that's their business. But when she is getting paid more than the Dean of both the School of Medicine and the School of Business to teach 2/3 classes....her outrage and grandstanding on issues such as pay inequality and college affordability are no more than empty rhetoric she uses to con her base into believing the system is rigged against them.....she is the epitome of the fvckin  system

The whole reason there is a "pay gap" nationally is that men and women do different work, but as with Elizabeth Warrens case, the Democrats use this outrage to create a false perception that the gap exists due to unfairness and misogyny....IT DOESNT....and the pay gap that exists within their own organizations is evidence of that

The legitimate gripe with the pay gap is when men and women get paid differently for the same work. It's well documented that that has been a problem historically and into today. So unless you're saying that the Clintons are paying their women less than the men for the same job and expertise they bring, then you're just grandstanding and posturing like the politicians you claim to abhor.

Pending additional research, fair point on Warren and college fees.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 28, 2017, 02:24:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 01:45:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 10:57:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant

If not the case why do you hammer Dems for it and no Republicans??!!


Oh believe me there are plenty of mega-hypocrites in the Republican Party too......just the things issues they are hypocritical about are not the main issues they attack the Democrats on.

So what's the real problem here?

That Democratic politicians advocate for progressive economic policies or that they're rich while doing so?

Neither......The issue for me is that if you want to lecture on an issue, at least let it be an issue where your and your surrogates' actions match your words. If they don't, it's just meaningless and empty empty rhetoric your using to whip low information voters up into a lather.

Eg. Donald Trump is an absolute disgrace when it comes to his treatment of women, but you then give Bill Clinton a standing ovation every time he gives a speech.

If Joe Kennedy III gave a speech about the gender pay gap I would be willing to listen...I might not agree with him, but at least I'd listen. If Hillary Clinton gave the same speech, I would not listen because her campaign and the Clinton Foundation pay their female staffers less than their male staffers. Likewise, Elizabeth Warren got paid more for teaching 2/3 classes at Harvard than the Dean of The  Medical School or the Dean of the Business School so I would not be interested in her opinions either.  I'm interested in and support her positions on numerous other topics, but they tend not to be the topics she leads with. She goes for the easy mark

1. You are supposed to be a conservative, so what is your objection to Warren being paid whatever it is she was paid by Harvard?

2. For the THIRD time in the past day, are these Clinton female staffers getting paid less for the same work/expertise?

3. Objections to Trump go way above and beyond his attitude towards women, which you absolutely know.

I don't care what Harvard pays Warren.....that's their business. But when she is getting paid more than the Dean of both the School of Medicine and the School of Business to teach 2/3 classes....her outrage and grandstanding on issues such as pay inequality and college affordability are no more than empty rhetoric she uses to con her base into believing the system is rigged against them.....she is the epitome of the fvckin  system

The whole reason there is a "pay gap" nationally is that men and women do different work, but as with Elizabeth Warrens case, the Democrats use this outrage to create a false perception that the gap exists due to unfairness and misogyny....IT DOESNT....and the pay gap that exists within their own organizations is evidence of that

The legitimate gripe with the pay gap is when men and women get paid differently for the same work. It's well documented that that has been a problem historically and into today. So unless you're saying that the Clintons are paying their women less than the men for the same job and expertise they bring, then you're just grandstanding and posturing like the politicians you claim to abhor.

Pending additional research, fair point on Warren and college fees.

Nice attempts at deflection....

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jul/15/politifact-sheet-gender-pay-gap/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#4e1043cf2596

"But the White House and others who promote the myth are manipulating statistics in a way to convince women that they are the victims of systematic societal discrimination, and, therefore, stand to benefit from further government action."

"Women's groups and politicians, including Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, continue to tell women they are making almost a quarter less than men and use this statistic to call for legislation enacting further government intervention in employer and employee relationships, such as the Paycheck Fairness Act."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 02:54:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 02:24:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 01:45:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 10:57:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 27, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
Where did I ever say that?

Post it up if you can find it and I'll happily recant

If not the case why do you hammer Dems for it and no Republicans??!!


Oh believe me there are plenty of mega-hypocrites in the Republican Party too......just the things issues they are hypocritical about are not the main issues they attack the Democrats on.

So what's the real problem here?

That Democratic politicians advocate for progressive economic policies or that they're rich while doing so?

Neither......The issue for me is that if you want to lecture on an issue, at least let it be an issue where your and your surrogates' actions match your words. If they don't, it's just meaningless and empty empty rhetoric your using to whip low information voters up into a lather.

Eg. Donald Trump is an absolute disgrace when it comes to his treatment of women, but you then give Bill Clinton a standing ovation every time he gives a speech.

If Joe Kennedy III gave a speech about the gender pay gap I would be willing to listen...I might not agree with him, but at least I'd listen. If Hillary Clinton gave the same speech, I would not listen because her campaign and the Clinton Foundation pay their female staffers less than their male staffers. Likewise, Elizabeth Warren got paid more for teaching 2/3 classes at Harvard than the Dean of The  Medical School or the Dean of the Business School so I would not be interested in her opinions either.  I'm interested in and support her positions on numerous other topics, but they tend not to be the topics she leads with. She goes for the easy mark

1. You are supposed to be a conservative, so what is your objection to Warren being paid whatever it is she was paid by Harvard?

2. For the THIRD time in the past day, are these Clinton female staffers getting paid less for the same work/expertise?

3. Objections to Trump go way above and beyond his attitude towards women, which you absolutely know.

I don't care what Harvard pays Warren.....that's their business. But when she is getting paid more than the Dean of both the School of Medicine and the School of Business to teach 2/3 classes....her outrage and grandstanding on issues such as pay inequality and college affordability are no more than empty rhetoric she uses to con her base into believing the system is rigged against them.....she is the epitome of the fvckin  system

The whole reason there is a "pay gap" nationally is that men and women do different work, but as with Elizabeth Warrens case, the Democrats use this outrage to create a false perception that the gap exists due to unfairness and misogyny....IT DOESNT....and the pay gap that exists within their own organizations is evidence of that

The legitimate gripe with the pay gap is when men and women get paid differently for the same work. It's well documented that that has been a problem historically and into today. So unless you're saying that the Clintons are paying their women less than the men for the same job and expertise they bring, then you're just grandstanding and posturing like the politicians you claim to abhor.

Pending additional research, fair point on Warren and college fees.

Nice attempts at deflection....

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jul/15/politifact-sheet-gender-pay-gap/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#4e1043cf2596

"But the White House and others who promote the myth are manipulating statistics in a way to convince women that they are the victims of systematic societal discrimination, and, therefore, stand to benefit from further government action."

Where's the deflection?

Your Forbes link doesn't work, while the other one acknowledges that the gap exists, even once you go past the broad, overall gap which doesn't account for the type of work. It even says female nurses, of all professions, get paid less FFS.

But assuming you are correct, you must have stats then that show that women earn the same or even outearn men for the same work and experience level?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 28, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
Forbes link does work on 3 of my devices and I have pulled 2 quotes off it for good measure

if you want to deny they are creating false outrage about a non issue....that's on you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 03:29:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 03:07:13 PM
Forbes link does work on 3 of my devices and I have pulled 2 quotes off it for good measure

if you want to deny they are creating false outrage about a non issue....that's on you

Politicians exaggerate and grandstand and push buttons. Where have I ever denied that?

And I read the link that did work. It wasn't exactly supportive of your apparent dismissal of the reality that women earn less for the same work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 28, 2017, 03:33:29 PM
Whatever....it's a big issue for Democrats and it's all based on lies and bullshit and victimhood
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 03:33:29 PM
Whatever....it's a big issue for Democrats and it's all based on lies and bullshit and victimhood

Whatever indeed. All you've done is addressed the inaccuracy of the 77cent figure, not the fact that the disparity exists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 28, 2017, 03:48:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 03:33:29 PM
Whatever....it's a big issue for Democrats and it's all based on lies and bullshit and victimhood

Whatever indeed. All you've done is addressed the inaccuracy of the 77cent figure, not the fact that the disparity exists.

According to research I have read the disparity exists due to the fact that men are more likely to be engaged in dangerous jobs like police and fire which pay a premium due to danger.

Secondly spend longer in the workforce because women take time off to rear kids

There are logical and structural reasons for the difference....it has very little if anything to do with inequality or misogyny, but that's the card Dems play.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 04:57:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 03:48:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 03:33:29 PM
Whatever....it's a big issue for Democrats and it's all based on lies and bullshit and victimhood

Whatever indeed. All you've done is addressed the inaccuracy of the 77cent figure, not the fact that the disparity exists.

According to research I have read the disparity exists due to the fact that men are more likely to be engaged in dangerous jobs like police and fire which pay a premium due to danger.

Secondly spend longer in the workforce because women take time off to rear kids

There are logical and structural reasons for the difference....it has very little if anything to do with inequality or misogyny, but that's the card Dems play.

Dude, I'm not arguing the overall difference. Of course some jobs dominated by men, by necessity, carry larger pay. But the very link YOU posted ends in the following (there are other stats throughout the piece).

Why is there any difference at all?

THE BIG PICTURE

Just before Obama took office in 2009, the Department of Labor released a study because, as a deputy assistant secretary explained it, "The raw wage gap continues to be used in misleading ways to advance public policy agendas without fully explaining the reasons behind the gap." The study by CONSAD Research Corp. took into account women being more likely to work part-time for lower pay, leave the labor force for children or elder care, and choose work that is "family friendly" with fuller benefit packages over higher pay. The study found that, when factoring in those variables, the gap narrows to between 93 cents and 95 cents on the dollar.

"The raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action," said Charles James, the deputy assistant secretary. "Indeed, there may be nothing to correct."

Still, a study by the American Association of University Women controlled for a number of factors, including college major, occupation, age, geographical region and hours worked, and found a persistent 7 percent wage gap between men and women a year after graduating college.

The report explored discrimination and reluctance among women to ask for raises as reasons for the remaining gap, though those factors are hard to measure.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 06:40:53 PM
Fox and Friends apparently were puzzled and not very happy to discover how health insurance is supposed to work.

While showing images of Democrats celebrating, the genius that is Steve Doocy comes out with "congratulations, the healthy people are now paying for the sick people". :o ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 28, 2017, 06:43:31 PM
I'm sure good looking people get paid more than ugly people

Tall people get paid more than short people

Thin people get paid more than fat people.

There will probably never be 100% equilibrium in gender pay even though there should be. 

My problem is that the Democrats have conned people into thinking that the difference is $0.23 not $0.05-$0.07 (through lies and bullshit) and that Republicans are either to blame or at the very least are complicit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 07:24:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 06:43:31 PM
I'm sure good looking people get paid more than ugly people

Tall people get paid more than short people

Thin people get paid more than fat people.

There will probably never be 100% equilibrium in gender pay even though there should be. 

My problem is that the Democrats have conned people into thinking that the difference is $0.23 not $0.05-$0.07 (through lies and bullshit) and that Republicans are either to blame or at the very least are complicit.

5 cents or 7 cents is still substantial enough, and it is, after all, an overall figure. The disparity is much larger in some fields, as your link outlined. Some of that is unconnected to discrimination, no doubt. That it should exist at all in a female-dominated field such as nursing is ridiculous though.

But honestly, I'll take your concerns about political exaggeration and scaremongering more seriously if and when you come on here expressing disgust at the multitude of areas where Republicans are guilty of outright lies, never mind exaggeration. Democrats may have misused the stats for effect in this case, but that pales in comparison to the overall level of bullshit the GOP campaigns and governs on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 28, 2017, 08:16:46 PM
So you can't just admit that Democrats lie and make shit up just like Republicans do?  (I admit Republicans do it)

You can't acknowledge that the senior Democrats who lead the party, are enermous beneficiaries of the very policies they claim cause and perpetuate inequality. Yet when push comes to shove they go ahead and object to that wind farm or take advantage of that tax loophole in exactly the same way the Republicans do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on July 28, 2017, 09:04:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 28, 2017, 01:35:05 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 27, 2017, 11:02:10 PM
This new Comms guy sounds level headed hahahahahaha

An actual WH employee gave this interview to a journalist

http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon

Quote"I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own c**k," he said, speaking of Trump's chief strategist. "I'm not trying to build my own brand off the f**king strength of the President. I'm here to serve the country." (Bannon declined to comment.)

Quote"Reince is a f**king paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac. 'Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the f**king thing and see if I can c**k-block these people the way I c**k-blocked Scaramucci for six months.'"

"They're trying to resist me, but it's not going to work. I've done nothing wrong on my financial disclosures, so they're going to have to go f**k themselves."

You can clearly get good coke in Washington.

Scaramucci is trying to literally sniff out the truth.
;D ;D cracker
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2017, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 08:16:46 PM
So you can't just admit that Democrats lie and make shit up just like Republicans do?  (I admit Republicans do it)

You can't acknowledge that the senior Democrats who lead the party, are enermous beneficiaries of the very policies they claim cause and perpetuate inequality. Yet when push comes to shove they go ahead and object to that wind farm or take advantage of that tax loophole in exactly the same way the Republicans do.

You're presenting two different issues.

1. I absolutely concede that the Dems will exaggerate and, I'm sure, from time to time, make shit up. They're politicians. I have never claimed otherwise.

2. We've been over the hypocrisy thing already. And I don't really give a bollocks. Policies matter. I care more that the Republican Party, on the whole, wants to cast gays back into the closet than I do that some "devout" GOP politician is screwing around with a male prostitute on the sly. Individuals can be idiots and hypocrites. What the party wants to do is what matters. I'd prefer that a hypocritical Kennedy was eased aside in favour of a less entitled person, but the party policy is more important.

I've already said this several times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 28, 2017, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 08:16:46 PM
So you can't just admit that Democrats lie and make shit up just like Republicans do?  (I admit Republicans do it)

You can't acknowledge that the senior Democrats who lead the party, are enermous beneficiaries of the very policies they claim cause and perpetuate inequality. Yet when push comes to shove they go ahead and object to that wind farm or take advantage of that tax loophole in exactly the same way the Republicans do.

You're presenting two different issues.

1. I absolutely concede that the Dems will exaggerate and, I'm sure, from time to time, make shit up. They're politicians. I have never claimed otherwise.

2. We've been over the hypocrisy thing already. And I don't really give a bollocks. Policies matter. I care more that the Republican Party, on the whole, wants to cast gays back into the closet than I do that some "devout" GOP politician is screwing around with a male prostitute on the sly. Individuals can be idiots and hypocrites. What the party wants to do is what matters. I'd prefer that a hypocritical Kennedy was eased aside in favour of a less entitled person, but the party policy is more important.

I've already said this several times.

So if your candidate has low or no integrity (such as Ted Kennedy or Trump) do you not care as long as they promote causes you support?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on July 28, 2017, 10:06:07 PM
Reince Preibus gone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 28, 2017, 10:27:25 PM
Reince and Repeat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 29, 2017, 05:31:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 08:16:46 PM
So you can't just admit that Democrats lie and make shit up just like Republicans do?  (I admit Republicans do it)

You can't acknowledge that the senior Democrats who lead the party, are enermous beneficiaries of the very policies they claim cause and perpetuate inequality. Yet when push comes to shove they go ahead and object to that wind farm or take advantage of that tax loophole in exactly the same way the Republicans do.

You're presenting two different issues.

1. I absolutely concede that the Dems will exaggerate and, I'm sure, from time to time, make shit up. They're politicians. I have never claimed otherwise.

2. We've been over the hypocrisy thing already. And I don't really give a bollocks. Policies matter. I care more that the Republican Party, on the whole, wants to cast gays back into the closet than I do that some "devout" GOP politician is screwing around with a male prostitute on the sly. Individuals can be idiots and hypocrites. What the party wants to do is what matters. I'd prefer that a hypocritical Kennedy was eased aside in favour of a less entitled person, but the party policy is more important.

I've already said this several times.

So if your candidate has low or no integrity (such as Ted Kennedy or Trump) do you not care as long as they promote causes you support?

If Tony Fearon made the world a better place  I could live with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 29, 2017, 05:34:50 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 28, 2017, 10:27:25 PM
Reince and Repeat

Come on Armagh..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 29, 2017, 03:12:05 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 29, 2017, 05:31:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 08:16:46 PM
So you can't just admit that Democrats lie and make shit up just like Republicans do?  (I admit Republicans do it)

You can't acknowledge that the senior Democrats who lead the party, are enermous beneficiaries of the very policies they claim cause and perpetuate inequality. Yet when push comes to shove they go ahead and object to that wind farm or take advantage of that tax loophole in exactly the same way the Republicans do.

You're presenting two different issues.

1. I absolutely concede that the Dems will exaggerate and, I'm sure, from time to time, make shit up. They're politicians. I have never claimed otherwise.

2. We've been over the hypocrisy thing already. And I don't really give a bollocks. Policies matter. I care more that the Republican Party, on the whole, wants to cast gays back into the closet than I do that some "devout" GOP politician is screwing around with a male prostitute on the sly. Individuals can be idiots and hypocrites. What the party wants to do is what matters. I'd prefer that a hypocritical Kennedy was eased aside in favour of a less entitled person, but the party policy is more important.

I've already said this several times.

So if your candidate has low or no integrity (such as Ted Kennedy or Trump) do you not care as long as they promote causes you support?

If Tony Fearon made the world a better place  I could live with it.

But would you vote for him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 29, 2017, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 28, 2017, 10:27:25 PM
Reince and Repeat
I saved all.the words of praise Trump showered on Kelly for use when Trump fires him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 30, 2017, 05:20:01 AM
The observer editorial:
Quote
The sense of things falling apart in Washington is palpable – and a matter of growing, serious international concern. Donald Trump's latest asinine act of gesture politics, the forced resignation of his chief of staff, Reince Priebus, has shone a spotlight on the extraordinary chaos inside the White House. Even normally sober, experienced Washington observers now refer to the West Wing as a viper's nest of seething rivalry, bitter feuds, gross incompetence and an unparalleled leadership vacuum.


Like some kind of Shakespearean villain-clown, Trump plays not to the gallery but to the pit. He is a Falstaff without the humour or the self-awareness, a cowardly, bullying Richard III without a clue. Late-night US satirists find in this an unending source of high comedy. If they did not laugh, they would cry. The world is witnessing the dramatic unfolding of a tragedy whose main victims are a seemingly helpless American audience, America's system of balanced governance and its global reputation as a leading democratic light.

Advertisement

As his partisan, demeaning and self-admiring speech to the Boy Scouts of America illustrated, Trump endlessly reruns last year's presidential election campaign, rails against the "fake news" media and appeals to the lowest common denominator in public debate. Not a word about duty, service, shared purpose or high ideals was to be found in his gutter-level discourse before a youthful gathering of 30,000 in West Virginia. Instead, he served up a sad cocktail of paranoia and narcissism. It was all about him and what he has supposedly achieved against the odds.


Which, for the record, is almost precisely nothing. After more than six months in office, and despite full Republican control of Congress, Trump cannot point to a single substantial legislative achievement. The bid to repeal the Affordable Care Act, better known as Obamacare, which finally went down in flames in the Senate last week, was the most spectacular and telling of Trump's failures. His executive orders, such as the racist ban on Muslim travellers and last week's bigoted attack on transgender people in the military, have mostly run foul of the courts or been pre-emptively ignored by those charged with implementing them.

Trump has instead squandered the political goodwill that traditionally accompanies a presidential honeymoon, shocked and outraged many middle-of-the-road voters who initially gave him the benefit of the doubt, thoroughly alienated Republican party traditionalists, who had tried in vain to swallow their doubts, and undermined the authority of the office of the president. Trump, a supposedly ace chief executive, has now lost a chief of staff, a deputy chief of staff, a national security adviser, a communications director and a press secretary in short order. To lose one or even two of his most senior people might be excused as unfortunate. To lose all five suggests the fault is his.

Advertisement

Perhaps John Kelly, the retired general hired to replace Priebus, can restore some semblance of order to the White House. It looks like a tall order. Kelly has no political experience beyond his brief tenure at the department of homeland security. Perhaps he will find an ally in HR McMaster, another army veteran, who is Trump's national security adviser. But there is no good reason to believe the internal feuding, and Trump's inability or disinclination to halt it, will end.

Anthony Scaramucci, the recently appointed, foul-mouthed communications director, has unfinished business with Steve Bannon, Trump's top strategist. Trump seems determined to undermine his attorney general, Jeff Sessions. Then there is the self-interested leverage exerted by Trump family lightweights Ivanka Trump, Donald Jr and son-in-law, Jared Kushner. On top of all that, Kelly must work out how to handle the ever-expanding investigations of special counsel Robert Mueller into the Trump campaign's dealings with Russia. A good start would be to halt scurrilous White House efforts to dig up dirt on Mueller and his team.

Yet even if Kelly succeeds in cracking the whip, curbing the in-fighting and containing the Russia scandal, he still has to deal with Trump himself. He has proved far more interested in settling scores, berating adversaries and showing off than in advancing a coherent domestic policy agenda. The next prospective car crash, following the Obamacare pile-up, is a September deadline for a federal budget and linked tax reforms and increased military spending promised by Trump. A budget deal proved impossible last spring and may do so again. If there is no agreement, a government shut-down looms, an outcome in line with current Washington trends. Lazy, feckless Trump has no interest in the onerous business of lobbying Congress or working the phones. He wants quick, easy wins or else he walks away.

Advertisement

This latter is one of several disturbing truths about Trump absorbed, to varying degrees, by Washington's friends and allies in the past six months. Naive, misguided Theresa May and Liam Fox, the Brexit trade secretary, still seem to think Trump's word can be trusted and that he will deliver a favourable trade deal. It is one of many delusions explaining why Britain's government is so disrespected. In sharp contrast, Angela Merkel, Germany's chancellor, heads the realist, pragmatic group of leaders who are learning to deal with a post-Obama world where the word of the American president cannot be trusted. In this new world, longstanding US commitments and treaties may not be honoured and future collaboration on key policies, such as climate change, Russia and Chinese military expansionism, is held hostage to presidential whim and the blinkered perspectives of the Ohio bar-room.

Merkel suggested earlier this year that the US (and Britain) could no longer be wholly relied upon. While not entirely true, for instance in the case of Anglo-American security guarantees for Germany and its sheltered exporters, it was plain what she meant. And this lesson has been understood by America's enemies, too. In provocatively firing off another long-range, possibly nuclear-capable missile last week, North Korea seems to be testing how far it can go, geographically and politically. It is counting on Trump proving to be the blowhard that, until now, he has appeared to be.

Recent months have produced a litany of Trump threats and boasts over North Korea. There was no way, he said, that Pyongyang would deploy an ICBM capable of hitting the mainland US. "It's not going to happen," he tweeted. Wrong again, Donald. It did. By conducting its own satellite launch last week, ignoring western concerns, Iran has similarly thumbed its nose at Washington. Iran's leaders should understand there would be "very serious" consequences if they pursued their ballistic missile programme, Trump had warned. Additional hints from Rex Tillerson, US secretary of state, and Jim Mattis, Pentagon chief, about regime change in Iran further darkened the strategic horizon. But guess what? Tehran took no notice at all. It went ahead anyway.

Advertisement

Or take Russia. Having played Trump to its advantage, Moscow's open hand is turning into a clenched fist as it threatens reprisals over a new Congressional sanctions package. It was not hard to see this tactical switch coming, once it was clear Trump could not deliver the sort of concessions on Ukraine Putin craves. Except, in his fecklessness and blind vanity and courting Putin to the end, Trump didn't see it coming at all. You can almost see Putin's lip curl.

The common factor in all these situations is Trump's self-induced powerlessness and ignorance, his chronic lack of credibility and presidential authority and consequent perceptions of US and western weakness. And in the case of all three actual or potential adversaries – North Korea, Iran and Russia – these perceptions are highly dangerous. Precisely because US responses, actions and reactions can no longer be relied upon or predicted, by friends and enemies alike, the potential for calamitous miscalculation is growing. This uncertainty, like the chaos in the White House and the extraordinary disarray of the American body politic, stems from Trump's glaring unfitness for the highest office. As is now becoming ever plainer, this threatens us all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

He is far from useless Foid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 30, 2017, 08:47:16 AM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

He is far from useless Foid.

No he is dangerous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 30, 2017, 08:47:16 AM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

Really? Hpw?


He is far from useless Foid.

No he is dangerous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2017, 10:00:43 AM
Watched him talk about the police and gangs (he talked about other shit too) during an interview in Brentwood NY with a lot of cops behind him, pure cringe.

I was actually squirming in my seat. This was in a Mall in Florida, the American couple beside me weren't happy with my response to some of the stuff I was saying to a friend with me about Trumps speech....

Trump was looking and pausing for a response from the audience each time he stopped talking, he didn't get it, embarrassing altogether...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on July 30, 2017, 11:56:28 AM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 30, 2017, 08:47:16 AM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

Really? Hpw?


He is far from useless Foid.

No he is dangerous.
What has he done to bring you to this conclusion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 12:33:05 PM
Trump isn't interested in policy detail or building up coalitions to win votes. He plays people off against each other in order to win. He doesn't understand politics. He makes promises he can't deliver. He has achieved nothing in 6 months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on July 30, 2017, 12:35:04 PM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 11:56:28 AM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 30, 2017, 08:47:16 AM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

Really? Hpw?


He is far from useless Foid.

No he is dangerous.
What has he done to bring you to this conclusion?

Would you not say that a man in the most powerful position in the world who says he can pardon himself is dangerous?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 30, 2017, 01:17:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2017, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 28, 2017, 08:16:46 PM
So you can't just admit that Democrats lie and make shit up just like Republicans do?  (I admit Republicans do it)

You can't acknowledge that the senior Democrats who lead the party, are enermous beneficiaries of the very policies they claim cause and perpetuate inequality. Yet when push comes to shove they go ahead and object to that wind farm or take advantage of that tax loophole in exactly the same way the Republicans do.

You're presenting two different issues.

1. I absolutely concede that the Dems will exaggerate and, I'm sure, from time to time, make shit up. They're politicians. I have never claimed otherwise.

2. We've been over the hypocrisy thing already. And I don't really give a bollocks. Policies matter. I care more that the Republican Party, on the whole, wants to cast gays back into the closet than I do that some "devout" GOP politician is screwing around with a male prostitute on the sly. Individuals can be idiots and hypocrites. What the party wants to do is what matters. I'd prefer that a hypocritical Kennedy was eased aside in favour of a less entitled person, but the party policy is more important.

I've already said this several times.

So if your candidate has low or no integrity (such as Ted Kennedy or Trump) do you not care as long as they promote causes you support?

If it comes down to the lesser of two evils in a general election, absolutely (although had a lowlife like Trump been the Democratic nominee against a good man like, say, MA-era Romney, or McCain sans Palin, or especially Jon Huntsman, I would likely think differently). Like most people, I vote defensively. Rarely does the opportunity arise to do otherwise, at least in the US.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 30, 2017, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

He is far from useless Foid.

Maybe not useless. He did inherit a stolen Supreme Court seat to fill after all. And he appointed appalling characters like Sessions and Pruitt to set about dismantling vital protections and policies that protect Americans.

But he has been, thankfully, very reduced in overall effectiveness so far. Long may he continue to sabotage himself through disinterest in policy detail and his own ego and paranoia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 30, 2017, 01:24:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2017, 10:00:43 AM
Watched him talk about the police and gangs (he talked about other shit too) during an interview in Brentwood NY with a lot of cops behind him, pure cringe.

I was actually squirming in my seat. This was in a Mall in Florida, the American couple beside me weren't happy with my response to some of the stuff I was saying to a friend with me about Trumps speech....

Trump was looking and pausing for a response from the audience each time he stopped talking, he didn't get it, embarrassing altogether...

His comments encouraging manhandling of suspects didn't go down too well ANYWHERE.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 30, 2017, 01:28:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 12:33:05 PM
Trump isn't interested in policy detail or building up coalitions to win votes. He plays people off against each other in order to win. He doesn't understand politics. He makes promises he can't deliver. He has achieved nothing in 6 months.

He obviously understands politics to the extent that he knows which buttons to push to gain followers in a campaign.

Running a government, putting in the time and effort to understand societal problems and the steps necessary to address them, and the fact that he is only a president, and not a dictator, and thus has to persuade other politicians, is obviously another matter.

Long may it continue!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 30, 2017, 01:39:59 PM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 11:56:28 AM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 30, 2017, 08:47:16 AM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

Really? Hpw?


He is far from useless Foid.

No he is dangerous.
What has he done to bring you to this conclusion?

Actually, in addition to my earlier comment, I would say that he IS dangerous in that he doesn't really give a shit about policies and their actual details and effects.

All he cares about are political "victories".

He didn't give a shit WHAT was in the healthcare proposals coming out of congress. All he wanted was to be able to boast about signing legislation and doing a victory dance in the Rose Garden. He did this with the House proposal before denouncing it a couple of weeks later as "mean". He has been all over the place with "repeal and replace only" and "repeal and replace later" and "repeal only", sometimes advocating each within the same week or two. He doesn't know, nor does he care about, the effects of healthcare policy on real people. He justs want to repeal Obamacare for his own ego and to stick it to his predecessor.

He probably hasn't given a second thought to transgender people in his entire life, but suddenly this week, out of the blue, and with no consultation whatsoever, comes out with his military ban, purely to keep his base onside and to placate some members of the House for budget reasons.

One could go on and on...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 04:38:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2017, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

He is far from useless Foid.

Maybe not useless. He did inherit a stolen Supreme Court seat to fill after all. And he appointed appalling characters like Sessions and Pruitt to set about dismantling vital protections and policies that protect Americans.

But he has been, thankfully, very reduced in overall effectiveness so far. Long may he continue to sabotage himself through disinterest in policy detail and his own ego and paranoia.

Maggie Haberman Retweeted
NYT Politics
NYT Politics @nytpolitics
·
1h
President Trump's repeated criticisms of Senate process have rankled Republican leaders (link: http://nyti.ms/2uNIap1) nyti.ms/2uNIap1

Trump will break the GOP
And his legislative record is atrocious
All of his other changes can be reversed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 30, 2017, 04:46:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2017, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

He is far from useless Foid.

Maybe not useless. He did inherit a stolen Supreme Court seat to fill after all. And he appointed appalling characters like Sessions and Pruitt to set about dismantling vital protections and policies that protect Americans.

But he has been, thankfully, very reduced in overall effectiveness so far. Long may he continue to sabotage himself through disinterest in policy detail and his own ego and paranoia.

Most Romney type conservatives like me are now resigned to Trumps legacy possibly being 2 Supreme Court appointees.  He's more terrible than we ever could have imagined....in fact he's even worse than that.  He may cost us the House and the Senate.   Regardless, it now shows that Third party candidates do actually now have a chance to win......Id love to see Bloomberg run next time out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 05:18:45 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 30, 2017, 08:47:16 AM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

He is far from useless Foid.

No he is dangerous.
In order to be dangerous he needs to be effective. He needs to be in control. I don't think he is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 07:41:45 PM
From the fading New York Times


NYT Politics @nytpolitics·1h

President Trump's repeated criticisms of Senate process have rankled Republican leaders (link: http://nyti.ms/2uNIap1) nyti.ms/2uNIap1

Steve Peoples @sppeoples·Jul 28

Important reminder: Reince Priebus was among only Trump campaign insiders NOT to sign non-disclosure agreement last year.



Maggie Haberman @maggieNYT·1h

It's no longer people not fearing Trump, they're actively defying him, via @peterbakernyt


Trump Tries to Regroup as the West Wing Battles Itself

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 07:49:07 PM
Some real classy people in the White House.
Mrs Scaramucci was 8 months pregnant

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4742894/Anthony-Scaramucci-s-wife-runs-errands-Long-Island.html

The  couple has reportedly exchanged bitter words, with Deidre branding her husband a 'grifter'. Scaramucci, on the other hand, took shots at his wife's intelligence and said he's out of her league, sources said. 

Presumably his child is also out of his league
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2017, 01:29:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 30, 2017, 04:46:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2017, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 06:39:38 AM
Trump threatened to cut federal money to Alaska if Lisa Murkowski did not support the Senate healthcare plan. He got his interior secretary, Zinke, to do it. Murkowski is chair of a Senate budget committee that controls Zinkes budget.

Trump is useless

He is far from useless Foid.

Maybe not useless. He did inherit a stolen Supreme Court seat to fill after all. And he appointed appalling characters like Sessions and Pruitt to set about dismantling vital protections and policies that protect Americans.

But he has been, thankfully, very reduced in overall effectiveness so far. Long may he continue to sabotage himself through disinterest in policy detail and his own ego and paranoia.

Most Romney type conservatives like me are now resigned to Trumps legacy possibly being 2 Supreme Court appointees.  He's more terrible than we ever could have imagined....in fact he's even worse than that.  He may cost us the House and the Senate.   Regardless, it now shows that Third party candidates do actually now have a chance to win......Id love to see Bloomberg run next time out

I'd be all over Bloomberg myself. I thought he did a fantastic job, on the whole, in NYC.

Unfortunately, he wouldn't make any headway with most on the right. His pro-gun control work and the large soft drink ban are all that one would hear about from right wing media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2017, 01:40:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 30, 2017, 07:49:07 PM
Some real classy people in the White House.
Mrs Scaramucci was 8 months pregnant

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4742894/Anthony-Scaramucci-s-wife-runs-errands-Long-Island.html

The  couple has reportedly exchanged bitter words, with Deidre branding her husband a 'grifter'. Scaramucci, on the other hand, took shots at his wife's intelligence and said he's out of her league, sources said.

Presumably his child is also out of his league

If what the Daily Mail is reporting here is true (??), Da Mooch seems like a classy fellow. His newborn kid is born on Monday and under intensive care, and he waits until the weekend to come home to Manhasset (an hour flight and half-hour drive from DC through LaGuardia) see it (never mind the "congratulatory" text to his wife!). Himself and Trump were made for each other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2017, 02:47:11 PM
Residents in Florida can now object to the contents of school textbooks. Apparently issues like evolution, climate change and islam are what drove this campaign.

For example:

Flaugh says the law, which was signed by the governor on June 26, is intended to make sure scientific theories are presented in a balanced way.

"There will be people out there that argue that creationism versus Darwinism are facts. They're both theories," he says.

Do we need even a single guess as to which party/political stance was behind it? ::)

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/540041860/new-florida-law-lets-residents-challenge-school-textbooks (http://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/540041860/new-florida-law-lets-residents-challenge-school-textbooks)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 31, 2017, 02:52:51 PM
Quote
Flaugh says the law, which was signed by the governor on June 26, is intended to make sure scientific theories are presented in a balanced way.

The acceleration due to gravity is 9.80665 m/s2. Or maybe not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2017, 02:55:54 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 31, 2017, 02:52:51 PM
Quote
Flaugh says the law, which was signed by the governor on June 26, is intended to make sure scientific theories are presented in a balanced way.

The acceleration due to gravity is 9.80665 m/s2. Or maybe not.

And the Book of Kings teaches us that pi = 3.

Teach the controversy! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2017, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 31, 2017, 02:52:51 PM
Quote
Flaugh says the law, which was signed by the governor on June 26, is intended to make sure scientific theories are presented in a balanced way.

The acceleration due to gravity is 9 m/s2. Or maybe not.
Acceleration is a liberal conspiracy that doesn't happen in evangelical areas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 31, 2017, 04:33:31 PM
What's more frightening is that if Trump is impeached and has to resign, america gets Pense from Florida.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2017, 05:12:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 31, 2017, 04:33:31 PM
What's more frightening is that if Trump is impeached and has to resign, america gets Pense from Florida.
The Republicans will probably lose the Senate in 2018. Pence wouldn't get much done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2017, 05:47:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2017, 05:12:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 31, 2017, 04:33:31 PM
What's more frightening is that if Trump is impeached and has to resign, america gets Pense from Florida.
The Republicans will probably lose the Senate in 2018. Pence wouldn't get much done.

Doubtful.

The Republicans are only defending 8 seats, which are in Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, Texas, Tennessee and Mississippi.

Plus, the Dems are defending seats in Montana, North Dakota, Florida and Missouri.

Now, Trump may make it easier for a popular Democrat like Jon Tester to keep his seat in Montana, but a net gain of three seats is hard to see.

House is probably a better bet, but even there, how many competitive seats are there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on July 31, 2017, 05:54:55 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 31, 2017, 04:33:31 PM
What's more frightening is that if Trump is impeached and has to resign, america gets Pense from Florida.

Florida has enough crazy politicians, no need to saddle us with Pence also☺
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2017, 07:14:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2017, 05:47:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2017, 05:12:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 31, 2017, 04:33:31 PM
What's more frightening is that if Trump is impeached and has to resign, america gets Pense from Florida.
The Republicans will probably lose the Senate in 2018. Pence wouldn't get much done.

Doubtful.

The Republicans are only defending 8 seats, which are in Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, Texas, Tennessee and Mississippi.

Plus, the Dems are defending seats in Montana, North Dakota, Florida and Missouri.

Now, Trump may make it easier for a popular Democrat like Jon Tester to keep his seat in Montana, but a net gain of three seats is hard to see.

House is probably a better bet, but even there, how many competitive seats are there?
It is not business as usual.. Trump support is only mid 30s. That would lose even red states
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2017, 07:40:36 PM
Da Mooch is out on his ear already! ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 31, 2017, 07:47:20 PM
Sweet Jesus! Is this a record for the shortest stay in a White House job!?  ;D

This shit-show is unbelievable!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2017, 07:50:05 PM
Sounds like Trump is listening to his new chief of staff Kelly.

How long will the king of impulse and indiscipline and ego be able to keep that up??  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2017, 08:10:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2017, 07:40:36 PM
Da Mooch is out on his ear already! ;D ;D
He leaves behind a fine body of work.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20Bannon

Kelly told him.to.go
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2017, 08:11:58 PM

Via the FT
The White House has spent months consumed by the fruitless healthcare fight, is behind schedule on tax reform and suffers from the president's tendency to announce initiatives without the customary preparation. Just days ago Mr Trump announced an about-face on the military's handling of transgender personnel that caught the Pentagon by surprise and left White House officials unable to answer basic questions about implementation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 31, 2017, 08:13:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2017, 07:40:36 PM
Da Mooch is out on his ear already! ;D ;D

It will give him more time to spend with his family.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 31, 2017, 08:52:26 PM
Hickory Dickery Dock
Da Mooch is gone, I'm shocked

Yoh! Bara Bing, Bara Boom!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on July 31, 2017, 09:15:57 PM
Did he take his shine-box with him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on August 01, 2017, 12:08:03 AM
watched a show last night on race matters in the 90s...the Mrs posed a question which I will pose here...

What has happened to the BLM movement? Or the women's movement? It has all went very quiet? Coming up to the election and shortly thereafter it was everywhere and now I honestly haven't heard of any marches, protests or the like...
Why?
Our theory was that a lot of the central people were paid to stir things up and rally people and are no longer paid and therefore these things have went away or fizzled out.... I am not taking anything away from their cause or right to protest- genuinely wondering where they have gone and what your reasoning is as to why? Maybe they were all struck with Zikka? Though it seems to be gone too....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 01, 2017, 12:45:17 AM
Hilary would have been quite boring, you can't take your eyes away from this Trump debacle

It's not a big stretch to compare this to Hitler in 1933.  Both were 'democratically'
elected leaders who tend (or tended) to cater to an audience that was less socially conscious, more easily impressionable. Over the last six months, I think I've heard the expression "serve at the pleasure of the President" many times more than I have throughout the rest of my entire life.

The main difference now (compared to 1933 Germany) is that Trump is a fat, old, habitually mendacious, luxury-loving jackass, who seems to lack both will and a compelling social vision.
And, of course, scandals attach to Trump like flies on a cow pie

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 01, 2017, 12:51:56 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 01, 2017, 12:08:03 AM
watched a show last night on race matters in the 90s...the Mrs posed a question which I will pose here...

What has happened to the BLM movement? Or the women's movement? It has all went very quiet? Coming up to the election and shortly thereafter it was everywhere and now I honestly haven't heard of any marches, protests or the like...
Why?
Our theory was that a lot of the central people were paid to stir things up and rally people and are no longer paid and therefore these things have went away or fizzled out.... I am not taking anything away from their cause or right to protest- genuinely wondering where they have gone and what your reasoning is as to why? Maybe they were all struck with Zikka? Though it seems to be gone too....

BLM - unless you're suggesting that the cops are timing their getting captured killing unarmed black men on film, contradicting the initial official line, I don't see your point. Have there been such videos or other allegations which have come out and have been met with a yawn by BLM?

There was a massive women's march the weekend of the inauguration. There was a massive science march too a few months later. There's been plenty of backlash on the healthcare issue this year. The muslim immigration ban debacle brought people onto the streets.

And election years ALWAYS see more political activity. There is a lot at stake. I would expect that as the implications of Trump's policies become clear, there will be further action. Perhaps right now people are happy to see him rendered relatively impotent (in terms of what might have been) by his own shortcomings.

Not sure what zika has to do with anything. It is most certainly not "gone".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 01, 2017, 01:04:27 AM
Good fella, Hardy!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on August 01, 2017, 01:08:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2017, 12:51:56 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 01, 2017, 12:08:03 AM
watched a show last night on race matters in the 90s...the Mrs posed a question which I will pose here...

What has happened to the BLM movement? Or the women's movement? It has all went very quiet? Coming up to the election and shortly thereafter it was everywhere and now I honestly haven't heard of any marches, protests or the like...
Why?
Our theory was that a lot of the central people were paid to stir things up and rally people and are no longer paid and therefore these things have went away or fizzled out.... I am not taking anything away from their cause or right to protest- genuinely wondering where they have gone and what your reasoning is as to why? Maybe they were all struck with Zikka? Though it seems to be gone too....

BLM - unless you're suggesting that the cops are timing their getting captured killing unarmed black men on film, contradicting the initial official line, I don't see your point. Have there been such videos or other allegations which have come out and have been met with a yawn by BLM?

There was a massive women's march the weekend of the inauguration. There was a massive science march too a few months later. There's been plenty of backlash on the healthcare issue this year. The muslim immigration ban debacle brought people onto the streets.

And election years ALWAYS see more political activity. There is a lot at stake. I would expect that as the implications of Trump's policies become clear, there will be further action. Perhaps right now people are happy to see him rendered relatively impotent (in terms of what might have been) by his own shortcomings.

Not sure what zika has to do with anything. It is most certainly not "gone".
None of it is on the news though? Coming up to the election and shortly after it was all you would have seen on tv.  Now it hardly gets a mention...maybe it is happening and not being reported on?
The Zikka connection would be to further my point that there was a paid stirring up of people...Zikka is/was real, but it wasn't the natural disaster we were all led to believe much like Ebola wasn't either (funnily enough that was around election time too)...
BLM and womens rights are legitimate causes....but it's strange that they would fall out of public view so quickly - do they not matter anymore? Are they no longer newsworthy? Surely you would concede there is much less activity?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 01, 2017, 01:11:15 AM
I'd imagine, Iceman, that if a policeman killed an unarmed black man, you'd notice BLM.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 01, 2017, 01:13:19 AM
Zikka and Ebola were potentially catastrophic but were contained by prompt action by organizations like the Centers for Disease Control and various international cooperation efforts. Conspiracy theorists seem to have a problem with the success of these things. A bit like the Montreal Protocol - an effort to save the ozone layer which succeeded. Because it succeeded then the cynics decided that there was no danger in the first place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on August 01, 2017, 01:45:21 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 01, 2017, 01:11:15 AM
I'd imagine, Iceman, that if a policeman killed an unarmed black man, you'd notice BLM.
But where they only around when someone was killed? I thought they were marching constantly. Look, i'm not trying to stir anything up - the Mrs pointed something out, we talked about it - I thought I'd see what others thought - this isn't a republican democrat thing - I've said many times before i can't and don't throw my hat in with either party.

Eamonn I normally wouldn't succumb to conspiracy theories but it is a bit coincidental that these threats happen to crop up just before election time and slowly disappear shortly thereafter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 01, 2017, 02:01:06 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 01, 2017, 01:08:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2017, 12:51:56 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 01, 2017, 12:08:03 AM
watched a show last night on race matters in the 90s...the Mrs posed a question which I will pose here...

What has happened to the BLM movement? Or the women's movement? It has all went very quiet? Coming up to the election and shortly thereafter it was everywhere and now I honestly haven't heard of any marches, protests or the like...
Why?
Our theory was that a lot of the central people were paid to stir things up and rally people and are no longer paid and therefore these things have went away or fizzled out.... I am not taking anything away from their cause or right to protest- genuinely wondering where they have gone and what your reasoning is as to why? Maybe they were all struck with Zikka? Though it seems to be gone too....

BLM - unless you're suggesting that the cops are timing their getting captured killing unarmed black men on film, contradicting the initial official line, I don't see your point. Have there been such videos or other allegations which have come out and have been met with a yawn by BLM?

There was a massive women's march the weekend of the inauguration. There was a massive science march too a few months later. There's been plenty of backlash on the healthcare issue this year. The muslim immigration ban debacle brought people onto the streets.

And election years ALWAYS see more political activity. There is a lot at stake. I would expect that as the implications of Trump's policies become clear, there will be further action. Perhaps right now people are happy to see him rendered relatively impotent (in terms of what might have been) by his own shortcomings.

Not sure what zika has to do with anything. It is most certainly not "gone".
None of it is on the news though? Coming up to the election and shortly after it was all you would have seen on tv.  Now it hardly gets a mention...maybe it is happening and not being reported on?
The Zikka connection would be to further my point that there was a paid stirring up of people...Zikka is/was real, but it wasn't the natural disaster we were all led to believe much like Ebola wasn't either (funnily enough that was around election time too)...
BLM and womens rights are legitimate causes....but it's strange that they would fall out of public view so quickly - do they not matter anymore? Are they no longer newsworthy? Surely you would concede there is much less activity?

The women's march dominated the news that weekend. The contrast between the numbers that turned out in DC, especially, was stark in contrast to Trump and Spicer's ludicrous bullshit on the inauguration crowd. And I don't recall BLM being especially prominent coming up to the election itself. There was a march at the time of the DNC in Philly, which obviously drew a lot of coverage, but that was in July. Last autumn was purely about Trump's "pussy grabbing" and Hillary's emails. With Trump, nothing else has a chance of making news.

And the Zika stuff was played out long before the election. It was a year before it, maybe to the month if I remember correctly, that there was a lot of political debate over government funding for research during one of the numerous continuing resolution showdowns. A lot of the hype concerned the Olympics in Rio and the side effect of infant microcephaly. And then you had the fact that it was being detected, for the first time, in the US in places like Miami. But the fact that the disease was contained, for the moment, is why it faded from the news. Not that there never any threat to begin with.

If you want to discuss a politicized disease outbreak, you would be better off going with the Ebola scare from 2014. The rhetoric of the GOP in that campaign was nothing short of disgraceful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 01, 2017, 10:10:44 AM
I see Donald made another rash decision. How many changes to his team has he made and he's only President six months. This forum seems to get into a debate about Trump on right v left lines and Republican v Democrat. I don't think Trump is representative of political philosophy in general as he was  a protest vote by Americans many of whom were Democrats. He represents all that is worse with entitled people but not on political lines. He used the system and Republican party as a means to an end to self promote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 01, 2017, 01:53:36 PM
Ice,
Really not sure if you're on a wind up. Your local news and media cover whatever they seem relevant, maybe you should contact them. If you're really interested why not take a look at the website and social media for both groups and see if you think they are active or not, really up to you to decide whether you think they are relevant.
Swift vets and POWs for truth did not have a huge presence last years presidential campaign.
HB
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 01, 2017, 10:44:30 PM
Christopher Wray ex Arsenal striker is the new FBI chief.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 02, 2017, 10:22:09 AM
Liberals now want the term 'illegal aliens; because it is dehumanizing, you can hurt the feelings of illegals that are in the country without the right, 'undocumented aliens' is their preferred term of choice, and some of you tubes wonder why I hate the American left, enough ffs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on August 02, 2017, 10:35:52 AM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2017, 10:22:09 AM
Liberals now want the term 'illegal aliens; because it is dehumanizing, you can hurt the feelings of illegals that are in the country without the right, 'undocumented aliens' is their preferred term of choice, and some of you tubes wonder why I hate the American left, enough ffs!


So your problem is that you're upset by a suggested terminology because you believe others shouldn't be upset by another terminology.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2017, 10:53:27 AM
The preferred nomenclature is "undocumented resident" stew. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 02, 2017, 11:53:11 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 02, 2017, 10:35:52 AM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2017, 10:22:09 AM
Liberals now want the term 'illegal aliens; because it is dehumanizing, you can hurt the feelings of illegals that are in the country without the right, 'undocumented aliens' is their preferred term of choice, and some of you tubes wonder why I hate the American left, enough ffs!


So your problem is that you're upset by a suggested terminology because you believe others shouldn't be upset by another terminology.

I am not upset, I am disgusted!

I am disgusted because as usual the left changes the rhetoric that does not suit them, the fact is that the people they refer to hear are in the country illegally, there is no way around that, undocumented simply panders to the ignorant left that now have a buzzword to justify the fact they support breaking the law when dealing with people in the country, you know, the illegal people!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 02, 2017, 11:56:35 AM
lets be honest here, I absolutely despise the American left, I find them odious, disgusting scumbags and I am completely and utterly opposed to most of what they stand for.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 02, 2017, 12:01:05 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2017, 11:56:35 AM
lets be honest here, I absolutely despise the American left, I find them odious, disgusting scumbags and I am completely and utterly opposed to most of what they stand for.

It's good that we don't make broad sweeping generalisations about groups of people anymore . . . Oh wait!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2017, 12:06:06 PM
"Odious, disgusting sc**bag"...

I think I will put that on my CV among my list of qualifications. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on August 02, 2017, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2017, 11:56:35 AM
lets be honest here, I absolutely despise the American left, I find them odious, disgusting scumbags and I am completely and utterly opposed to most of what they stand for.

OK - I wasn't sure.

So anyway - you're not upset, you're disgusted by a suggested terminology because you believe others shouldn't be upset by another terminology. And you're right because, unlike those others, you're not an odious, disgusting sc**bag. I get it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dinny Breen on August 02, 2017, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 02, 2017, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2017, 11:56:35 AM
lets be honest here, I absolutely despise the American left, I find them odious, disgusting scumbags and I am completely and utterly opposed to most of what they stand for.

OK - I wasn't sure.

So anyway - you're not upset, you're disgusted by a suggested terminology because you believe others shouldn't be upset by another terminology. And you're right because, unlike those others, you're not an odious, disgusting sc**bag. I get it.

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on August 02, 2017, 03:52:25 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2017, 10:22:09 AM
Liberals now want the term 'illegal aliens; because it is dehumanizing, you can hurt the feelings of illegals that are in the country without the right, 'undocumented aliens' is their preferred term of choice, and some of you tubes wonder why I hate the American left, enough ffs!

Sticks and Stones
May break my Bones
But Names will Never Hurt Me
Unless I am Stew
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 02, 2017, 05:47:49 PM
Conservatives are such delicate little snowflakes, aren't they? For all the tough guy bravado they turn into sensitive little puppies at the first sight of a bit of criticism. Pathetic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2017, 05:55:31 PM
What you even care for stew; u dont live there anymore!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 02, 2017, 07:27:39 PM
Donald Trump threatened to sue the producers of Sharknado because he didn't get to play the American President in it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 02, 2017, 08:06:34 PM
Trump has also said Scouts rang him and said he gave the greatest speech ever at it. The Scouts said the phone call never happened.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2017, 09:04:45 PM
I thought you were taking the piss with the Sharknado post. After the Boy Scouts one, I'm not sure!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 02, 2017, 09:21:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2017, 09:04:45 PM
I thought you were taking the piss with the Sharknado post. After the Boy Scouts one, I'm not sure!

They're actually true. It's just crazy that it's the President of the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 02, 2017, 09:44:07 PM
There would be more discipline in a small Fianna Fáil cumann than in the GOP. Local FFers would rarely put a clown up for election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 02, 2017, 10:28:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 02, 2017, 09:44:07 PM
There would be more discipline in a small Fianna Fáil cumann than in the GOP. Local FFers would rarely put a clown up for election.

I agree with the first statement; now the second one😳?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 02, 2017, 10:43:17 PM
That Steve Miller guy is some piece of work!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 02, 2017, 11:36:06 PM
You're absolutely right, screenexile.  And add to him mouthpieces Corey Lewandowski, Sebastian Gorka and Kellyanne Conway.  Fast-talking liars.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 03, 2017, 01:31:58 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 02, 2017, 10:43:17 PM
That Steve Miller guy is some piece of work!!

Miller is the second coming of Tomás de Torquemada
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 03, 2017, 03:05:29 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 03, 2017, 01:31:58 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 02, 2017, 10:43:17 PM
That Steve Miller guy is some piece of work!!

Miller is the second coming of Tomás de Torquemada
Isn't he? But he is out of his depth. I saw a tweet of his from last year. He predicted a GOP Reich until 2050. For that they would need some policies and affordable healthcare would be a must.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 03, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 02, 2017, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2017, 11:56:35 AM
lets be honest here, I absolutely despise the American left, I find them odious, disgusting scumbags and I am completely and utterly opposed to most of what they stand for.

OK - I wasn't sure.

So anyway - you're not upset, you're disgusted by a suggested terminology because you believe others shouldn't be upset by another terminology. And you're right because, unlike those others, you're not an odious, disgusting sc**bag. I get it.

Son, you don't get anything!

Why cant we call things what they are? Why do things have to be renamed by the left? Why is it that people who want Trump to stop illegal aliens from entering the USA are being branded racists?

The right have been called Nazis on here, that seems to b acceptable but God forbid anyone state what they think of the far left, they are untouchable on here because they are so called progressives and the sheep follow them blindly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 03, 2017, 09:01:30 AM
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dcstatesman.com%2F52-year-old-father-lives-6-year-old-girl%2F&h=ATN7QtFMpf8bTZk1QiNFJ1ksYLzA2LsIEslhTygW8AAyJSJfhs6-viyloLGKmkmkkIfPO57K6PD198if997VgY5ZHJENY1bxTSM8r2n1c9Ovf3XorwbtgVjuSj_A3atlC2w0b_QxpVjIRpNFL-an6rjFEaXC-o6P0a8gDdHk_o3uOBrTVMp4KVS1iaRlDD_-vEtC8re_sKm6Mq1aMrOZJebZI-drj1mT4sIQFLOlsCnA13b7JQyEXebqzdGZ4eIvYuotB2ukGRnjGtMXNOz_iRfRl-mk

Jesus wept.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 03, 2017, 09:51:56 AM
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2017, 09:01:30 AM
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dcstatesman.com%2F52-year-old-father-lives-6-year-old-girl%2F&h=ATN7QtFMpf8bTZk1QiNFJ1ksYLzA2LsIEslhTygW8AAyJSJfhs6-viyloLGKmkmkkIfPO57K6PD198if997VgY5ZHJENY1bxTSM8r2n1c9Ovf3XorwbtgVjuSj_A3atlC2w0b_QxpVjIRpNFL-an6rjFEaXC-o6P0a8gDdHk_o3uOBrTVMp4KVS1iaRlDD_-vEtC8re_sKm6Mq1aMrOZJebZI-drj1mT4sIQFLOlsCnA13b7JQyEXebqzdGZ4eIvYuotB2ukGRnjGtMXNOz_iRfRl-mk

Jesus wept.

What exactly has that got to do with this thread??!!

Very interested to know exactly why it has appeared on your Facebook timeline though!! :o :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on August 03, 2017, 10:30:40 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 03, 2017, 01:31:58 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 02, 2017, 10:43:17 PM
That Steve Miller guy is some piece of work!!

Miller is the second coming of Tomás de Torquemada

He reminds me much more of somebody else
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/miller-goebbels_zpslaysfv4j.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/miller-goebbels_zpslaysfv4j.png.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on August 03, 2017, 10:36:42 AM
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 02, 2017, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: stew on August 02, 2017, 11:56:35 AM
lets be honest here, I absolutely despise the American left, I find them odious, disgusting scumbags and I am completely and utterly opposed to most of what they stand for.

OK - I wasn't sure.

So anyway - you're not upset, you're disgusted by a suggested terminology because you believe others shouldn't be upset by another terminology. And you're right because, unlike those others, you're not an odious, disgusting sc**bag. I get it.

Son, you don't get anything!

Why cant we call things what they are? Why do things have to be renamed by the left? Why is it that people who want Trump to stop illegal aliens from entering the USA are being branded racists?

The right have been called Nazis on here, that seems to b acceptable but God forbid anyone state what they think of the far left, they are untouchable on here because they are so called progressives and the sheep follow them blindly.

Two things

1. How do I get rid of the shudder-inducing image of me as your son that's now imprinted somewhere in my neurones?

2. The point that whooshed over your head was that the choices we make about what upsets us and what doesn't are telling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 03, 2017, 05:21:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 03, 2017, 10:30:40 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 03, 2017, 01:31:58 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 02, 2017, 10:43:17 PM
That Steve Miller guy is some piece of work!!

Miller is the second coming of Tomás de Torquemada

He reminds me much more of somebody else
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/miller-goebbels_zpslaysfv4j.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/miller-goebbels_zpslaysfv4j.png.html)

I was trying not to go there... you are right on the money.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2017, 05:57:24 PM
Have to agree with Screen there - what has a 52 year old Canadian man who wants to live as a 6 year old girl have to do with US politics?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2017, 06:06:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2017, 05:57:24 PM
Have to agree with Screen there - what has a 52 year old Canadian man who wants to live as a 6 year old girl have to do with US politics?

Maybe it's somehow Obama's fault.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2017, 06:39:36 PM
Yes, Obama was a strong advocate of abandoning one's family and responsibilities to go and live as a little child. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2017, 07:38:25 PM
In 1814 the British burned Washington. And Obama did nothing to stop it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 03, 2017, 08:07:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2017, 05:57:24 PM
Have to agree with Screen there - what has a 52 year old Canadian man who wants to live as a 6 year old girl have to do with US politics?

Nothing except to highlight how fucked up the left are in north America.

Canada just gave millions to a murderer, Trudeau is a monumental arsehole!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2017, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2017, 08:07:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2017, 05:57:24 PM
Have to agree with Screen there - what has a 52 year old Canadian man who wants to live as a 6 year old girl have to do with US politics?

Nothing except to highlight how fucked up the left are in north America.

Canada just gave millions to a murderer, Trudeau is a monumental arsehole!

Again - nothing to do with US politics  ::)

Start a thread about the "loony left" or Canadian politics if you want. I don't agree with the payment made to Khadr for the record. 


What about the orange in Northern Ireland? Some sick puppies about   :-X  :-X  :-X  :-X  :-X

QuoteThis is the former Parcelforce driver who has expressed "enormous shame and regret" after performing sex acts in the letterbox of a house in Northern Ireland over a six-month period.

David Camblin (52), of The Mount, Tandragee, County Armagh, pleaded guilty at Fermanagh Magistrates Court last week to three counts of damaging a door and floor on dates between February 1 and August 12, 2016.

Last August a man who was having work done on his late mother's house at Dairies Road in Monea became suspicious after observing a "puddle" on the floor just inside the front door of the house, the court heard.

He installed a CCTV camera to identify the culprit and footage showed a Parcelforce van pulling up outside the house one lunchtime. The man walked to the door and placed his private parts in the letterbox on the front door. On the recording he then appeared to masturbate through the letterbox.

The incident lasted a few minutes, before the man got back into the van and drove off.

On a second occasion a few days later the man noticed the camera as he was carrying out the sex act.

After police examined the footage Camblin was interviewed and denied urinating, but admitted masturbating.

Describing the act as "spontaneous", he could offer no other explanation.

A prosecutor told the court that the injured party estimated the cost of this incident to be £5,406, but deputy district judge Philip Mateer questioned this amount. The property owner had not provided the court with any invoices.

He claimed that he had paid over £1,000 to replace the door, had employed the services of a cleaning doctor and that the CCTV had cost over £500 to install.

The owner further claimed that he had been unable to rent the property from February to October last year as a result of this "problem", losing out on rent of £450 a month.

Defending solicitor, Rory Gillen, told the court that his client had worked for Parcelforce for 21 years and had never had any issues with the police before this incident.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2017, 09:00:07 PM
Nothing happening here

https://www.wsj.com/articles/special-counsel-mueller-impanels-washington-grand-jury-in-russia-probe-1501788287?mod=e2tw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 03, 2017, 10:54:05 PM
The tighter the noose, the more likely a rash attack on North Korea, I fear.  Nothing like a war to refocus attention.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on August 04, 2017, 01:06:49 AM
We live in dangerous times. The three most belligerent and dangerous states in the world are all in the charge of egomaniacal lunatics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 04, 2017, 01:14:49 AM
Thing is, the checks and balances on the US system seem to be holding. Even with majorities in both houses they couldn't get away with their healthcare massacre.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 04, 2017, 01:50:16 AM
Came pretty close, Eamonn.  I'll be more impressed if Congress acts to prevent Pumpkinhead from canning Mueller.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 04, 2017, 01:51:59 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 04, 2017, 01:06:49 AM
We live in dangerous times. The three most belligerent and dangerous states in the world are all in the charge of egomaniacal lunatics.

U.S., UK, and...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 04, 2017, 01:53:50 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 04, 2017, 01:50:16 AM
Came pretty close, Eamonn.  I'll be more impressed if Congress acts to prevent Pumpkinhead from canning Mueller.

I'd be more worried about Trump declaring war to divert attention from Mueller's inquiry.  Yeah, yeah, congress is supposed to have the sole power to declare war, but that hasn't mattered at all to Presidents for the last 60 years or so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 04, 2017, 03:37:05 AM
Whatever you think about Trump, keep in mind that the Democrats forces a candidate onto the ballot that was so divisive, voters who voted for Barack Obama TWICE switched sides and voted for Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 04, 2017, 03:37:05 AM
Whatever you think about Trump, keep in mind that the Democrats forces a candidate onto the ballot that was so divisive, voters who voted for Barack Obama TWICE switched sides and voted for Trump
People were worried about healthcare. Trump promised them better and much cheaper healthcare.
They were worried about jobs. Trump promised to bring back jobs. They were worried about inequality. Trump promised to stand up to Wall St.

There is a sucker born every minute
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2017, 11:50:13 AM
So is McMaster next for the chop? Would Kelly allow it?

A lot of the sycophants are pissed off that McMaster said "nothing to see here" and let Susan Rice keep her top level security clearance. Hannity apparently had a fit! Another conspiracy theory busted Sean?? Not a good week with the Seth Rich thing blowing up in your face a couple of days back too!  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 04, 2017, 11:57:42 AM
Read the leaked converstaion between Trump and leaders of Mexico and Canada. Comedy gold.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 04, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 04, 2017, 11:57:42 AM
Read the leaked converstaion between Trump and leaders of Mexico and Canada. Comedy gold.

It really is )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 04, 2017, 12:18:11 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 03, 2017, 10:54:05 PM
The tighter the noose, the more likely a rash attack on North Korea, I fear.  Nothing like a war to refocus attention.

If that was truly the case the clintons would have started ww3 years ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 04, 2017, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 04, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 04, 2017, 03:37:05 AM
Whatever you think about Trump, keep in mind that the Democrats forces a candidate onto the ballot that was so divisive, voters who voted for Barack Obama TWICE switched sides and voted for Trump
People were worried about healthcare. Trump promised them better and much cheaper healthcare.
They were worried about jobs. Trump promised to bring back jobs. They were worried about inequality. Trump promised to stand up to Wall St.

There is a sucker born every minute

But I thought Obamacare was working just fine.....at least that's what Nancy Pelosi  told me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2017, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 04, 2017, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 04, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 04, 2017, 03:37:05 AM
Whatever you think about Trump, keep in mind that the Democrats forces a candidate onto the ballot that was so divisive, voters who voted for Barack Obama TWICE switched sides and voted for Trump
People were worried about healthcare. Trump promised them better and much cheaper healthcare.
They were worried about jobs. Trump promised to bring back jobs. They were worried about inequality. Trump promised to stand up to Wall St.

There is a sucker born every minute

But I thought Obamacare was working just fine.....at least that's what Nancy Pelosi  told me

It's obviously working ok for quite a few, otherwise the GOP would have put their money where their mouth is when it came to the crunch, unlike the seven years of scaremongering where they could say and do what they liked with the security blanket of Obama's veto pen wrapped around them. It's been quite telling over the years how popular various planks of Obamacare have been when polled alone, but when put in a package named after Obama, with death panels thrown in for effect, GOP rhetoric has its affect on the opinions of so many. One of these decades, the GOP will tell us how to make healthcare work, even if not insuring so many and covering so much and at such a beautiful, tremendously low cost, as promised by Trump (albeit before "who knew how complicated healthcare was!").

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2017, 02:25:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 04, 2017, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 04, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 04, 2017, 03:37:05 AM
Whatever you think about Trump, keep in mind that the Democrats forces a candidate onto the ballot that was so divisive, voters who voted for Barack Obama TWICE switched sides and voted for Trump
People were worried about healthcare. Trump promised them better and much cheaper healthcare.
They were worried about jobs. Trump promised to bring back jobs. They were worried about inequality. Trump promised to stand up to Wall St.

There is a sucker born every minute

But I thought Obamacare was working just fine.....at least that's what Nancy Pelosi  told me
51% approval I think

Lots of GOP voters got to.like the idea. This is why the GOP is trína chéile.  It can't find a formula of words to serve the 1% parasites and the voters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2017, 04:24:26 PM
There's something amiss with Trump, with the constant childish boasting and need for validation.

Could you imagine any other world leader (outside of the Kims or whatever!) saying something like the following?:

"This is what I've been saying for a year and a half on the campaign trail. I've been telling this to every group of 50,000 people or 25,000 people - because no one people in their rallies as big as I did. I got elected on this proposal, along with military and healthcare."

What the f**k has the size of his crowds got to do with anything?

Leaving aside the pathetic and pitiful pleading for the Mexican president stop saying he would pay for the wall, what must world leaders be thinking listening to this needy boasting and glaring insecurity?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2017, 04:58:31 PM
Trump speeches go heavy on paranoia and narcissism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 04, 2017, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 04, 2017, 11:57:42 AM
Read the leaked converstaion between Trump and leaders of Mexico and Canada. Comedy gold.

Christ it's painful to read. The fella needs constant praise. Did his mother never love him or something? Gawd!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 04, 2017, 06:26:58 PM
Did you read the transcript of his conversation with the Australian PM?  Trump cannot understand the very simple point being made.  Dumb as a bag of mouldy potatoes.  The PM has to speak to him as though Trumpilthinskin is a child. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2017, 06:42:05 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 04, 2017, 06:26:58 PM
Did you read the transcript of his conversation with the Australian PM?  Trump cannot understand the very simple point being made.  Dumb as a bag of mouldy potatoes.  The PM has to speak to him as though Trumpilthinskin is a child.
When his staff prepare material for him to read they include his name every so often so he can maintain interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2017, 09:19:51 PM
Trump has lost some of his authority. He is a joke

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/murkowski-to-trump-im-not-voting-republican-party-im-voting-for-alaska
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2017, 09:24:25 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/893199549401096194/photo/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 05, 2017, 01:53:38 AM
Financial Times

'"The public is not responding to his lead, his policy stances," says George Edwards, editor of Presidential Studies Quarterly. "He's just not leading the country."

The fear factor is starting to really diminish with this guy," said Democratic Congressman Joe Courtney of Connecticut. "He's getting weaker and weaker."

Official Washington increasingly doubts Mr Trump's command of his job, notably including the ability to persuade. Thus far, Mr Trump, an avowed dealmaker, only seems comfortable preaching to the choir — as he did at a West Virginia rally on Thursday night — or threatening resistant lawmakers.

"Trump has proven to be a relatively weak president. He hasn't learned how to use the powers of the office," says John Sides, a political scientist at George Washington University. "It's difficult for other political actors to take him seriously."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ball Hopper on August 05, 2017, 01:57:19 AM
So when will it all begin to unravel for him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ball Hopper on August 05, 2017, 01:57:55 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 05, 2017, 01:57:19 AM
So when will it all begin to unravel for him?

Now that the gaaboard has him on page 666...???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2017, 02:38:28 AM

Obamacare is going to implode

While it did insure many millions of people who were previously uninsured, it has shifted the burden of paying for it all onto the shoulders of people who already had insurance....you know, like the people Bill Clinton described:

"as humping it 60 hours a week, their premioums have doubled and their coverage cut in half........its the craziest thing ever"

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obamacare-insurer-molina-to-leave-two-states-hike-premiums-by-55-percent/article/2630462

"Though Molina is a relatively small insurer, it drew headlines for enthusiastically embracing the law. The company's former chief executive, J. Mario Molina, was a major industry supporter of Obamacare and he has been a vocal critic of Republican efforts to repeal and replace the law. He and is brother, John Molina, who was chief financial officer, were fired from their positions in May after poor first-quarter financial results.,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 05, 2017, 06:26:34 AM
So the exchanges are struggling because your crowd ... spike them.... won't use them ... and will do nothing to make them workable.... ahhh I forgot... it's the black guy's fault.
BTW
You are missing the point.
Healthcare costs are out of control and nobody has the balls to take on the Medical/Pharma/Insurance complex
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 05, 2017, 07:07:03 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 04, 2017, 06:26:58 PM
Did you read the transcript of his conversation with the Australian PM?  Trump cannot understand the very simple point being made.  Dumb as a bag of mouldy potatoes.  The PM has to speak to him as though Trumpilthinskin is a child.
The bigger issue is who leaked it and why

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/why-leaking-transcripts-of-trumps-calls-is-so-dangerous/535809/

"

Senior national-security professionals regard Trump as something between (at best) a reckless incompetent doofus and (at worst) an outright Russian espionage asset.

Donald Trump has launched the executive branch into a cycle of self-destruction for which he bears ultimate blame—but whose ultimate cost will be borne by his successors and the American nation."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 05, 2017, 07:09:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2017, 02:38:28 AM

Obamacare is going to implode

While it did insure many millions of people who were previously uninsured, it has shifted the burden of paying for it all onto the shoulders of people who already had insurance....you know, like the people Bill Clinton described:

"as humping it 60 hours a week, their premioums have doubled and their coverage cut in half........its the craziest thing ever"

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obamacare-insurer-molina-to-leave-two-states-hike-premiums-by-55-percent/article/2630462

"Though Molina is a relatively small insurer, it drew headlines for enthusiastically embracing the law. The company's former chief executive, J. Mario Molina, was a major industry supporter of Obamacare and he has been a vocal critic of Republican efforts to repeal and replace the law. He and is brother, John Molina, who was chief financial officer, were fired from their positions in May after poor first-quarter financial results.,
Healthcare will implode.
Ot is one sixth of the US economy. It is a Ponzi scheme
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 05, 2017, 10:27:25 AM
Trump told the Mexican president that he won New Hampshire because it was drug infested.
He will be very popular there. Way to go,GOP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 05, 2017, 01:24:45 PM

David Frum   


@davidfrum

   



Sean Hannity retweeting Russian cutouts attacking American national security leadership. twitter.com/seanhannity/st...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on August 05, 2017, 03:53:08 PM
More Fake news from NYTimes that Donald probably doesn't like.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/movies/in-a-heartbeat-movie.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 06, 2017, 06:08:25 AM
Maybe this belongs in thr WTF thread

Caroline O. 

@RVAwonk

Replying to @RVAwonk


Flynn was going to accept a payment to kidnap someone w/in the U.S. (Gülen) and deliver him to a foreign dictator. twitter.com/RVAwonk/status...



@RVAwonk

Replying to @chrizap

And he was Trump's national security adviser for a month. That's terrifying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 06, 2017, 01:04:02 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-conversation-with-al-franken-on-trump-the-senate-and-his-dehumorizer-machine
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 07, 2017, 06:26:09 PM
A bit off the point here but can anyone explain why Lads with Monaghan DNA ( e.g Hannity, McEnany) appear to have a higher propensity for licking Trump's @$$
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 07, 2017, 06:30:14 PM
They're all Clones!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 07, 2017, 10:11:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 07, 2017, 06:30:14 PM
They're all Clones!
I nearly snorted my tea at that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 07, 2017, 10:26:38 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 07, 2017, 06:30:14 PM
They're all Clones!

That's it...  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 07, 2017, 10:41:49 PM
Once again Oraisteach you have demonstrated your intellectual brilliance.... or is that just Armagh DNA kissing your @$$... :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2017, 10:43:59 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 07, 2017, 06:30:14 PM
They're all Clones!

Quality!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 07, 2017, 11:58:07 PM
Got lucky.  Magheracloone didn't work, but I thought Shercock was a possibility.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 08, 2017, 03:53:57 AM
Now the Cavan boys will not like that!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 08, 2017, 07:26:46 AM
Tucker Carlson @TuckerCarlson

"Do you know what the Never Trumpers on Capitol Hill fear most? Not ISIS, not a 5K drop on the Dow. But a successful Trump presidency"



Matt Jameson @RogueNotary·5h


Do you know what physicists fear most? The law of gravity reversing and everyone flying off into space
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 08, 2017, 07:53:57 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/08/07/as-mueller-closes-in-trump-prepares-his-base-for-the-worst/

Because Trump is undermining our democratic norms and processes in so many ways, it is often easy to focus on each of them in isolation, rather than as part of the same larger story. But, taken together, they point to a possible climax in which Trump, cornered by revelations unearthed by Robert S. Mueller III's probe and by ongoing media scrutiny, seeks to rally his supporters behind the idea that this outcome represents not the imposition of accountability by functioning civic institutions, but rather an effort to steal the election from him — and from them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 08, 2017, 10:46:31 AM
And days go by following yet another attack on muslims (pipe bomb in Minnesota) and not a word from Trump. Can you imagine if it had been a white Christian church being targeted by muslims?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 08, 2017, 11:02:18 AM
2 very good articles

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/08/07/as-mueller-closes-in-trump-prepares-his-base-for-the-worst/

 http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-07/donald-trump-is-wielding-the-knife-and-governing-with-abandon/8780662

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 08, 2017, 11:11:32 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 08, 2017, 03:53:57 AM
Now the Cavan boys will not like that!!!

We have Bill O Reilly for our sins.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 08, 2017, 11:57:16 AM
Trump has the stock market the highest it has ever been, more money is in my 401K than ever before, he scored a big win over N Korea in getting a billion tacked on to the already crippling sanctions, he even got the Chinese and the Russians to vote with him in a unanimous, historic decision.

The great state of Wisconsin has billions being added to its economy, not to mention thousands of jobs comma two car companies have decided they're coming to build vehicles in the States. The coal industry has got a shot in the arm and West Virginia miners are back at work doing what they do best, I could go on and on but the fact of the matter is the economy is in tremendous shap,  unemployment is at a low not seen in ages and there is confidence within the American consumer in Donald J Trump.

Emmanuel is going to bend over here after the courts get at him, he would be better served fixing the political corruption in his City, and maybe support the policing bodies on his city, oh wait. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 08, 2017, 12:21:10 PM
You mean the jobs numbers and stock market numbers and trends that Trump alleged was all a sham during the campaign?

I'm assuming this is all NOT a mere continuation of the trend from the Obama years??

And how is Trump going to make Emmanuel "play ball"? Is their suit meritless?

Coal is finished. But if the West Virginians want to destroy their landscape and environment and work at the mercy of the Murrays and Blankenships of this world for another few years, let them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 08, 2017, 12:23:32 PM
But Trump said all the job numbers were fake during the campaign . . . are they not fake now then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 08, 2017, 12:32:21 PM
One also wonders what exactly Trump has done that should earn him much, if any credit, for this stuff?

Are there legislative accomplishments we are not aware of?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 08, 2017, 04:07:51 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2017, 11:57:16 AM
Trump has the stock market the highest it has ever been, more money is in my 401K than ever before, he scored a big win over N Korea in getting a billion tacked on to the already crippling sanctions, he even got the Chinese and the Russians to vote with him in a unanimous, historic decision.

The great state of Wisconsin has billions being added to its economy, not to mention thousands of jobs comma two car companies have decided they're coming to build vehicles in the States. The coal industry has got a shot in the arm and West Virginia miners are back at work doing what they do best, I could go on and on but the fact of the matter is the economy is in tremendous shap,  unemployment is at a low not seen in ages and there is confidence within the American consumer in Donald J Trump.

Emmanuel is going to bend over here after the courts get at him, he would be better served fixing the political corruption in his City, and maybe support the policing bodies on his city, oh wait.

I think the solar eclipse is responsible for all of this.
Let's see how your 401k looks post first term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 08, 2017, 10:27:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 08, 2017, 10:46:31 AM
And days go by following yet another attack on muslims (pipe bomb in Minnesota) and not a word from Trump. Can you imagine if it had been a white Christian church being targeted by muslims?

What is your point here? Muslims walked into a Catholic Church in France and lopped the head of a Priest saying Mass, attacks in and on Churches are reprehensible no matter who is getting attacked.

White Christian Church? I did not know that was a thing!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 08, 2017, 10:43:23 PM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2017, 10:27:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 08, 2017, 10:46:31 AM
And days go by following yet another attack on muslims (pipe bomb in Minnesota) and not a word from Trump. Can you imagine if it had been a white Christian church being targeted by muslims?

What is your point here? Muslims walked into a Catholic Church in France and lopped the head of a Priest saying Mass, attacks in and on Churches are reprehensible no matter who is getting attacked.

White Christian Church? I did not know that was a thing!

You know very well what my point is, especially as you've defended Trump on this count before.

Trump has itchy twitter fingers when it comes to any terrorist act or act with the appearance of terrorism that looks like it may have been perpetrated by muslims.

When muslims, on the other hand, are the targets or victims... crickets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CiKe on August 09, 2017, 06:38:45 AM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2017, 11:57:16 AM
Trump has the stock market the highest it has ever been, more money is in my 401K than ever before, he scored a big win over N Korea in getting a billion tacked on to the already crippling sanctions, he even got the Chinese and the Russians to vote with him in a unanimous, historic decision.

The great state of Wisconsin has billions being added to its economy, not to mention thousands of jobs comma two car companies have decided they're coming to build vehicles in the States. The coal industry has got a shot in the arm and West Virginia miners are back at work doing what they do best, I could go on and on but the fact of the matter is the economy is in tremendous shap,  unemployment is at a low not seen in ages and there is confidence within the American consumer in Donald J Trump.

Emmanuel is going to bend over here after the courts get at him, he would be better served fixing the political corruption in his City, and maybe support the policing bodies on his city, oh wait.

Can't remember where I saw the article but the cars deal in Wisconsin and Walker came in for huge criticism. Supposedly is annual cash outlay and not tax rebate, the number of jobs created is unconfirmed and even if they were created, would be at cost of $1mn per job or something like that. Didn't sound like such a good deal for Wisconsinites who won't be working for these companies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 09, 2017, 06:42:20 AM
The stock markey is a Ponzi scheme controlled by the 1%. Prices are insane. Banks make SFA on lending and prices are at record levels.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on August 09, 2017, 10:22:47 AM
So now the fat orange buffoon has pushed the whole world to the brink of nuclear war with Pyongyang.  Watching him sitting yesterday with the full pout and arms folded talking about "fire and fury" was f**king cringeworthy.

How did this absolute f**king IDIOT get to be the leader of the free world?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 09, 2017, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 09, 2017, 10:22:47 AM
So now the fat orange buffoon has pushed the whole world to the brink of nuclear war with Pyongyang.  Watching him sitting yesterday with the full pout and arms folded talking about "fire and fury" was f**king cringeworthy.

How did this absolute f**king IDIOT get to be the leader of the free world?

(1) Large swaths of the population are uneducated buffoons

(2) The alternative candidate was one of the most unpopular and corrupt people in America

(3) The media gave him $3.5 B in free airtime in an attempt to help help Hillary.....the old pied piper strategy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on August 09, 2017, 10:56:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 09, 2017, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 09, 2017, 10:22:47 AM
So now the fat orange buffoon has pushed the whole world to the brink of nuclear war with Pyongyang.  Watching him sitting yesterday with the full pout and arms folded talking about "fire and fury" was f**king cringeworthy.

How did this absolute f**king IDIOT get to be the leader of the free world?

(1) Large swaths of the population are uneducated buffoons

(2) The alternative candidate was one of the most unpopular and corrupt people in America

(3) The media gave him $3.5 B in free airtime in an attempt to help help Hillary.....the old pied piper strategy

Possibly.  But if you remove point number 1, points 2 and 3 become irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 09, 2017, 11:40:22 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 09, 2017, 10:22:47 AM
So now the fat orange buffoon has pushed the whole world to the brink of nuclear war with Pyongyang.  Watching him sitting yesterday with the full pout and arms folded talking about "fire and fury" was f**king cringeworthy.

How did this absolute f**king IDIOT get to be the leader of the free world?
Polarisation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: punt kick on August 09, 2017, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 09, 2017, 10:22:47 AM
So now the fat orange buffoon has pushed the whole world to the brink of nuclear war with Pyongyang.  Watching him sitting yesterday with the full pout and arms folded talking about "fire and fury" was f**king cringeworthy.

How did this absolute f**king IDIOT get to be the leader of the free world?

Fair play to him - should we let this nutjob arm himself to the teeth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 09, 2017, 11:58:13 AM
Quote from: punt kick on August 09, 2017, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 09, 2017, 10:22:47 AM
So now the fat orange buffoon has pushed the whole world to the brink of nuclear war with Pyongyang.  Watching him sitting yesterday with the full pout and arms folded talking about "fire and fury" was f**king cringeworthy.

How did this absolute f**king IDIOT get to be the leader of the free world?

Fair play to him - should we let this nutjob arm himself to the teeth.

He IS armed to the teeth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 09, 2017, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 09, 2017, 10:22:47 AM
So now the fat orange buffoon has pushed the whole world to the brink of nuclear war with Pyongyang.  Watching him sitting yesterday with the full pout and arms folded talking about "fire and fury" was f**king cringeworthy.

How did this absolute f**king IDIOT get to be the leader of the free world?
Angela Merkel is the leader of the free world.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 09, 2017, 12:52:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 09, 2017, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 09, 2017, 10:22:47 AM
So now the fat orange buffoon has pushed the whole world to the brink of nuclear war with Pyongyang.  Watching him sitting yesterday with the full pout and arms folded talking about "fire and fury" was f**king cringeworthy.

How did this absolute f**king IDIOT get to be the leader of the free world?
Angela Merkel is the leader of the free world.
In diplomatic terms the US has recused itself for 4 years. Trump is a f**king idiot. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 09, 2017, 01:02:54 PM
How things look when you look at the history of the US in Korea:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-us-war-crime-north-korea-wont-forget/2015/03/20/fb525694-ce80-11e4-8c54-ffb5ba6f2f69_story.html?utm_term=.cdda99c0eb01  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-us-war-crime-north-korea-wont-forget/2015/03/20/fb525694-ce80-11e4-8c54-ffb5ba6f2f69_story.html?utm_term=.cdda99c0eb01)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 09, 2017, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: CiKe on August 09, 2017, 06:38:45 AM
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2017, 11:57:16 AM
Trump has the stock market the highest it has ever been, more money is in my 401K than ever before, he scored a big win over N Korea in getting a billion tacked on to the already crippling sanctions, he even got the Chinese and the Russians to vote with him in a unanimous, historic decision.

The great state of Wisconsin has billions being added to its economy, not to mention thousands of jobs comma two car companies have decided they're coming to build vehicles in the States. The coal industry has got a shot in the arm and West Virginia miners are back at work doing what they do best, I could go on and on but the fact of the matter is the economy is in tremendous shap,  unemployment is at a low not seen in ages and there is confidence within the American consumer in Donald J Trump.

Emmanuel is going to bend over here after the courts get at him, he would be better served fixing the political corruption in his City, and maybe support the policing bodies on his city, oh wait.

Can't remember where I saw the article but the cars deal in Wisconsin and Walker came in for huge criticism. Supposedly is annual cash outlay and not tax rebate, the number of jobs created is unconfirmed and even if they were created, would be at cost of $1mn per job or something like that. Didn't sound like such a good deal for Wisconsinites who won't be working for these companies

Lolololololololollll
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 09, 2017, 09:11:46 PM
Stephen Colbert‏
59% of Americans think Trump's presidency has been a failure. The other 41% still don't have twitter.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 10, 2017, 01:12:45 AM
WTF

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/895413271783755776
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2017, 09:11:46 PM
Stephen Colbert‏
59% of Americans think Trump's presidency has been a failure. The other 41% still don't have twitter.

To be honest, Stephen Colbert, and all the other 'celebrity' commentators, are a big reason why Trump got elected in my view. They managed, via their smart arsed approach to his candidacy, to make him appear a picked upon and sympathetic figure. Why people should place value in who entertainers endorse has never made sense to me.  They'd have been better off shutting their gobs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2017, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2017, 09:11:46 PM
Stephen Colbert‏
59% of Americans think Trump's presidency has been a failure. The other 41% still don't have twitter.

To be honest, Stephen Colbert, and all the other 'celebrity' commentators, are a big reason why Trump got elected in my view. They managed, via their smart arsed approach to his candidacy, to make him appear a picked upon and sympathetic figure. Why people should place value in who entertainers endorse has never made sense to me.  They'd have been better off shutting their gobs.

I've heard Trump called many things (most with justification), but "picked upon" and "sympathetic"??

Besides, do many people REALLY place much stock in what celebs say? And it's not like the right doesn't have their own celebrities coming out with all kinds of hyperbole about Democratic and liberal figures.

But, I will grant you, the paranoid, persecution complex is strong on the right in general, especially the christian element.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 11:39:00 AM
I'm saying that to those people who voted for him, it would almost be a 'f**k you' vote to the likes of Colbert, who would be as far away from the right as you can get. The likes of well paid, cosseted,  celebrities, ranting against a man who was saying things that his voters wanted to hear (regardless of their truth) was always likely to be a red rag to a bull.

Don't get me wrong, I think Trump is a dangerous cretin, but America would have been better served if lads like Colbert pulled his horns in a bit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2017, 11:53:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 11:39:00 AM
I'm saying that to those people who voted for him, it would almost be a 'f**k you' vote to the likes of Colbert, who would be as far away from the right as you can get. The likes of well paid, cosseted,  celebrities, ranting against a man who was saying things that his voters wanted to hear (regardless of their truth) was always likely to be a red rag to a bull.

Don't get me wrong, I think Trump is a dangerous cretin, but America would have been better served if lads like Colbert pulled his horns in a bit.

They're voting for and standing behind a man who has slandered and falsely demonized his way to the top of politics. You can go back to his cynical full page ad calling for the death penalty for the wrongly convicted Central Park Five, to launching his run for the White House based on spreading and hyping made up lies about Obama's birthplace, to questioning John McCain's undisputed war heroism, to the ridiculous allegations about Ted Cruz's father to most recently about Richard Blumenthal.

If Colbert or whoever legitimately making fun of Trump is a primary, or in any way significant, factor in their support for this freakshow, then they're beyond a joke themselves and people with whom common cause cannot be found.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 11:57:24 AM
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2017, 12:12:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 11:57:24 AM
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.

Sorry, but I disagree. Making fun of politicians is part and parcel of life and has been for years and years. Anyone who is that resentful of "elites" that they would take such offense and vote purely out of spite was never going to not vote for Trump anyway. Comedy is a great way of shining a light on things. If someone wants to lie to themselves in the face of blatant evidence, whether delivered by a "smug" comedian or scientist or academic or journalist (but never right wing talking head or entertainer!), then they can't be reached anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 12:16:59 PM
I agree with that. I loved spitting image and scrap saturday etc. Satire is great. Some of this stuff was OTT though. They never left it alone. And I think one of the things is the humour also seemed to poke fun at those they thought were going to vote for him.

I think they genuinely thought he was a soft target, and that if they alienated his voters, so what? I think that materially affected the election.

If you think that voters weren't swayed towards Trump by the media and 'commentators' such as this, then a) I think you are wrong and b) If you are right, then America is truly fucked.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 10, 2017, 12:19:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 11:57:24 AM
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.
Trump listened to them got elected and is now betraying them. It is very sad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 12:20:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2017, 12:19:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 11:57:24 AM
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.
Trump listened to them got elected and is now betraying them. It is very sad.

No argument. And if they realise he betrayed them, it's going to be a very difficult time in American politics. If Trump continues the way he is going, you might see a very low turnout the next time around. OR else it will open the field to completely different, maybe independent, type of candidate. Ross Perot mark III anyone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2017, 12:35:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 12:16:59 PM
I agree with that. I loved spitting image and scrap saturday etc. Satire is great. Some of this stuff was OTT though. They never left it alone. And I think one of the things is the humour also seemed to poke fun at those they thought were going to vote for him.

I think they genuinely thought he was a soft target, and that if they alienated his voters, so what? I think that materially affected the election.

If you think that voters weren't swayed towards Trump by the media and 'commentators' such as this, then a) I think you are wrong and b) If you are right, then America is truly fucked.

I just don't think it was a significant factor. Anyone who would be offended would never have voted for Trump anyway, especially with such a poor Democratic candidate opposing him. Anyone who would be offended would likely be an avid consumer of Fox News, talk radio, Breitbart etc. and would be fed a steady diet of anti-Hillary/immigrant/science/LGTBQ/"elite"/gun control invective which would be far more significant in their thinking.

America does have big problems, but so does the rest of the world. People can now embrace only that media which agrees with and reinforces their prejudices. They can tune all else out if they choose. It's apparently even affecting where Americans live now, with people increasingly choosing communities in which to live which suit their personal political outlook. Polarization is going to be the norm.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 10, 2017, 12:39:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 12:16:59 PM
I agree with that. I loved spitting image and scrap saturday etc. Satire is great. Some of this stuff was OTT though. They never left it alone. And I think one of the things is the humour also seemed to poke fun at those they thought were going to vote for him.

I think they genuinely thought he was a soft target, and that if they alienated his voters, so what? I think that materially affected the election.

If you think that voters weren't swayed towards Trump by the media and 'commentators' such as this, then a) I think you are wrong and b) If you are right, then America is truly fucked.
A satirist's job is not to shut their mouth because they think it might alienate some voters.

It's to savage people, and especially to savage idiocy.

The moaning from Trump and his supporters about the criticism and mocking of them, is, like pretty much everything else they say, deeply hypocritical.

They are attempting to shut down free speech.

It's snowflakeism taken to the extreme.

Everybody is free to be an idiot, but idiocy should be mocked mercilessly at every turn. Trump and his supporters, not least on this thread, are idiots.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 12:45:35 PM
If your satire helps the person you are satirising to be elected, should you do it?

AS for the rest, I'm in violent agreement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 10, 2017, 12:48:27 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 12:45:35 PM
If your satire helps the person you are satirising to be elected, should you do it?

AS for the rest, I'm in violent agreement.
Yes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 12:52:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2017, 12:48:27 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 12:45:35 PM
If your satire helps the person you are satirising to be elected, should you do it?

AS for the rest, I'm in violent agreement.
Yes

That's where I'd disagree I suppose. I'd prefer the dope to not get elected, rather than my satire actually helping him get elected. To be honest I don't think that was a conscious decision they made at the time. I don't think they believed he had the support, and so he was a safe, easy and oh-so fertile target.

Now that he's in, I'd be trying to find another way to convince the electorate to not let him in again. That's my biggest fear. That centre/left and centre/right people wouldn't learn from the last election, and leave the door open for another Trump type candidate or Trump himself for Term 2. Shudder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: playwiththewind1st on August 10, 2017, 01:44:43 PM
Trump won't be getting a second term. He'll not see out the summer, once the Great Leader, Kim Jong-un, stops pussy footing around & deals with him, once and for all.

The White House is going up in smoke, once our N. Korean friends replicate the British attack in 1812.

Just a case of getting those nukes tweaked a bit, bit of a test near Guam, then bang.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 11, 2017, 02:40:01 AM
For the voter-suppression deniers:  The Indianapolis Star reports that after Obama won Indiana in 2008, early voting was nixed in heavily-black Marion County (Indianapolis) but was added to a nearby heavily-Republican county. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 11, 2017, 05:40:44 AM
Now Trump is atacking McConnell. The Kochs won't be happy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 11, 2017, 09:02:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 11, 2017, 05:40:44 AM
Now Trump is atacking McConnell. The Kochs won't be happy

Shower of dicks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 11, 2017, 12:10:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2017, 12:19:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 11:57:24 AM
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.
Trump listened to them got elected and is now betraying them. It is very sad.

Its awful isnt it.

Of course the dems have never ever ever ever ever done that to their constituents.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2017, 12:33:45 PM
Some nice Republican senators they have in Wisconsin

QuoteRepublican Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin suggested in a radio interview that colleague John McCain's cancer and the very late hour might have played a role in McCain's dramatic and decisive vote last month against a GOP bill to roll back Obamacare.

Johnson was asked on "Chicago's Morning Answer" Tuesday about the vote McCain took that effectively ended a Republican push this summer to repeal Obamacare.

"I am not going to speak for John McCain. You know, he has a brain tumor right now. That vote occurred at 1:30 in the morning. Some of that might have factored in," Johnson said on AM-560 in Chicago in comments first reported Wednesday by CNN.

"Really?" asked co-host Amy Jacobson, referring to McCain's surgery for a blood clot and subsequent flight to Washington for the late July Senate health care debate. It was McCain's surgery that revealed the presence of brain cancer.

"You really think that that played a factor in his judgment call?" she asked Johnson.

"Again, I don't know exactly what — we really thought that — again I don't want to speak for any senator," said Johnson. "I really thought John was going to vote yes to send that to conference at 10:30 at night. By about 1 or 1:30 (in the morning), he voted no. You'd really have to talk to John about what was on his mind."

McCain spokeswoman Julie Tarallo responded Wednesday:

"It is bizarre and deeply unfortunate that Senator Johnson would question the judgment of a colleague and friend. Senator McCain has been very open and clear about the reasons for his vote."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: punt kick on August 11, 2017, 01:07:11 PM
Trump is locked and loaded.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40901746 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40901746)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 11, 2017, 01:30:26 PM
For some reason this song keeps popping into my head ever since this N. Korea nonsense. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1mlCPMYtPk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 11, 2017, 07:44:16 PM
Quote from: punt kick on August 11, 2017, 01:07:11 PM
Trump is locked and loaded.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40901746 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40901746)

Malcolm Nance
1. Trump says we are "Locked and Loaded"? We haven't even made basic preparations for war fighting that will happen if our B1s & SSBNs fire.

@MalcolmNance
2. NK could launch massive snap attacks within minutes of an attack. Pacific command logistics, amphibious ships & Marines NOT at ready.

                         @MalcolmNance

3. National ammunition logistics train NOT READY. Army/Marine alerts NOT READY. USAF air bridge NOT READY. Medical mobilization NOT READY.


@MalcolmNance
4. We are NOT READY for even a small action size of Libya much less Korean War 2.0. This talk of Locked & Loaded is irresponsible madness.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 11, 2017, 07:45:35 PM
Quote from: stew on August 11, 2017, 12:10:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2017, 12:19:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 10, 2017, 11:57:24 AM
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.
Trump listened to them got elected and is now betraying them. It is very sad.

Its awful isnt it.

Of course the dems have never ever ever ever ever done that to their constituents.
Taking insurance away from 23 m people would qualify as mass murder. When did the Dems do anything similar ? For the sake of a tax cut for the Kochs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 11, 2017, 09:13:40 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/sebastian-gorka-interview_uk_598c1060e4b0d793738ca8a7
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on August 12, 2017, 11:02:10 AM
 What has Venesula ever done to the US,

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/world/americas/trump-venezuela-military.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 12, 2017, 01:26:22 PM
Trump's conversation with Guam is beyond parody at this stage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 12, 2017, 01:34:58 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on August 12, 2017, 01:26:22 PM
Trump's conversation with Guam is beyond parody at this stage.
Ted Cruz refused to endorse Trump last year. It makes him look.like a statesman now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 12, 2017, 05:12:07 PM
I see the poor oppressed white people are rallying in Virginia this weekend.

(https://preview.ibb.co/nP1b9v/IMG_20170812_192010.jpg)

(http://i66.tinypic.com/30i9hys.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 12, 2017, 05:54:45 PM
The KKK re involved as well.

Blacks are being systematically pushed off voting rolls in GOP states by the DoJ led by Sessions. It's Jim Crow 2.0
I Wonder if there will be any lynching

And confederate flags. The choice of losers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 12, 2017, 06:01:39 PM
But Hillary / Obama / Democrats ...................................
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 12, 2017, 06:05:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 12, 2017, 06:01:39 PM
But Hillary / Obama / Democrats ...................................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr8bElkm-6s
It's 120 miles from DC . The KKK.  FFS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 12, 2017, 06:39:54 PM
Trump's twitter machine is obviously broke.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 12, 2017, 06:55:01 PM
https://twitter.com/JuliusGoat/status/896330859699212288

https://twitter.com/brianefallon/status/896362599532691456

Brian Fallon‏
@brianefallon 





In August '16, Clinton devoted an entire speech to warning how Trump was
emboldening hate groups and white supremacists

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2017, 10:31:00 PM
At least GOPers like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio have the balls and morals to condemn these scumbags. Trump seems to be listening to David Duke, who told him to remember that "White Americans" elected him, not "radical leftists".

What kind of person would don torches and confederate flags and Nazi salutes and guns and show up to "protest" the removal of a confederate statue, never mind drive a car into a crowd full of counter protestors?

Is their's a noble or even valid cause?

Is it ok for a president who never hesitates to reach for the most explicit and inflammatory rhetoric when it comes to muslims or immigrants or even Senators from his own party to tiptoe around white supremacists because they were among the most enthusiastic element of his constituency? Is he THAT dependent on their support?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on August 12, 2017, 11:58:00 PM
A man with Jewish grandchildren, with a history of racial discrimination, so beholden to the White Supremicists he cannot even condemn blood and soil torchlight marches, Nazi salutes and racially motivated murder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 13, 2017, 12:53:55 AM
For all the talk of BLM 'advocating' the killing of cops it turns out to be the White Lives Matter movement that actually do it!

Sick bastards! Trump needs to condemn them and quickly!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2017, 01:51:45 AM
He can condemn both sides getting violent and throwing bottles and punches, while at the same time disavowing the support of white supremacists and calling the use of the car to kill protestors what it was.

It's not that hard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 13, 2017, 02:33:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2017, 10:31:00 PM
At least GOPers like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio have the balls and morals to condemn these scumbags. Trump seems to be listening to David Duke, who told him to remember that "White Americans" elected him, not "radical leftists".

What kind of person would don torches and confederate flags and Nazi salutes and guns and show up to "protest" the removal of a confederate statue, never mind drive a car into a crowd full of counter protestors?

Is their's a noble or even valid cause?

Is it ok for a president who never hesitates to reach for the most explicit and inflammatory rhetoric when it comes to muslims or immigrants or even Senators from his own party to tiptoe around white supremacists because they were among the most enthusiastic element of his constituency? Is he THAT dependent on their support?
Some idiot authorised the march.  Fox gave the Nazis the oxygen of publicity.

They were chanting "go the f**k back to Africa"and "nigger" at a black woman.

Fox's @dougmckelway interviewing a white nationalist in Charlottesville. "The f**king Jew lovers are gassing us, man." McKelway: "Pardon his French.

This is all going to come back to the GOP in 2018. If Trump wants to feed his base excitement in Dixie the party will lose an awful lot of votes elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2017, 02:37:29 AM
Could have been a hundred times worse there's an open carry law in that place lots of loons openly armed to the teeth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 13, 2017, 02:44:40 AM
http://people.com/politics/charlottesville-mayor-mike-signer-slammed-anti-semitic-hate-following-rally-save-confederate-statue/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 13, 2017, 03:23:20 AM
3 people dead

State Police ID troopers who died in the helicopter crash. Lt. H. Jay Cullen of Midlothian. Trooper-Pilot Berke M.M. Bates of Quinton.

Fox News host asks guest, re: Charlottesville: "Does the left have any responsibility in this?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 13, 2017, 09:05:03 AM
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-hate-groups-neo-nazi-white-supremacist-racism/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 13, 2017, 09:56:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2017, 01:51:45 AM
He can condemn both sides getting violent and throwing bottles and punches, while at the same time disavowing the support of white supremacists and calling the use of the car to kill protestors what it was.

It's not that hard.

Fack we agree on something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 13, 2017, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 13, 2017, 02:33:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2017, 10:31:00 PM
At least GOPers like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio have the balls and morals to condemn these scumbags. Trump seems to be listening to David Duke, who told him to remember that "White Americans" elected him, not "radical leftists".

What kind of person would don torches and confederate flags and Nazi salutes and guns and show up to "protest" the removal of a confederate statue, never mind drive a car into a crowd full of counter protestors?

Is their's a noble or even valid cause?

Is it ok for a president who never hesitates to reach for the most explicit and inflammatory rhetoric when it comes to muslims or immigrants or even Senators from his own party to tiptoe around white supremacists because they were among the most enthusiastic element of his constituency? Is he THAT dependent on their support?
Some idiot authorised the march.  Fox gave the Nazis the oxygen of publicity.

They were chanting "go the f**k back to Africa"and "nigger" at a black woman.

Fox's @dougmckelway interviewing a white nationalist in Charlottesville. "The f**king Jew lovers are gassing us, man." McKelway: "Pardon his French.

This is all going to come back to the GOP in 2018. If Trump wants to feed his base excitement in Dixie the party will lose an awful lot of votes elsewhere.

He can say goodbye to Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio. Ohio moms won't like it and no republican has ever win without carrying the buckeye state.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 13, 2017, 10:33:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 13, 2017, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 13, 2017, 02:33:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2017, 10:31:00 PM
At least GOPers like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio have the balls and morals to condemn these scumbags. Trump seems to be listening to David Duke, who told him to remember that "White Americans" elected him, not "radical leftists".

What kind of person would don torches and confederate flags and Nazi salutes and guns and show up to "protest" the removal of a confederate statue, never mind drive a car into a crowd full of counter protestors?

Is their's a noble or even valid cause?

Is it ok for a president who never hesitates to reach for the most explicit and inflammatory rhetoric when it comes to muslims or immigrants or even Senators from his own party to tiptoe around white supremacists because they were among the most enthusiastic element of his constituency? Is he THAT dependent on their support?
Some idiot authorised the march.  Fox gave the Nazis the oxygen of publicity.

They were chanting "go the f**k back to Africa"and "nigger" at a black woman.

Fox's @dougmckelway interviewing a white nationalist in Charlottesville. "The f**king Jew lovers are gassing us, man." McKelway: "Pardon his French.

This is all going to come back to the GOP in 2018. If Trump wants to feed his base excitement in Dixie the party will lose an awful lot of votes elsewhere.

He can say goodbye to Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio. Ohio moms won't like it and no republican has ever win without carrying the buckeye state.

Orrin Hatch is the father of the Senate and a conservative legend.

Senator Hatch Office‏Compte certifié @senorrinhatch

We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

Nazism has nothing to do with American conservatism.

John McCain @SenJohnMcCain
White supremacists aren't patriots, they're traitors- Americans must unite against hatred & bigotry #Charlottesville https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=press-releases&id=64ED6753-345F-4F64-9B64-2D8BDAE952B5 ...

The old guys remember
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 13, 2017, 08:54:51 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/13/why-trump-cant-say-the-obvious-215481
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 14, 2017, 09:42:33 AM
Was it incidental that a drama based on Stephen King's Mr Mercedes premiered on tv a week ago in the US? The opening storyline has a merc being driven deliberately with deadly effect  through the middle of a crowd queueing for a bit of work.  Or perhaps it was just ironic that this bleak fantasy story line was enacted for real by Nazi/ultra racist supporters of Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 14, 2017, 03:06:10 PM
Looks like the social media world is mounting a campaign to name and shame the white power marchers from the weekend. The kid from Nevada, who confirmed his indentity, and who was on about "protecting white European culture" looks a particularly formidable intellect! Unfortunately for him, this shit is going to follow him around forever, even if he does eventually grow a brain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4786826/Nationalist-FIRED-Twitter-names-shames-protesters.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4786826/Nationalist-FIRED-Twitter-names-shames-protesters.html)

Is it just me, or are a bunch of these halfwits sporting Hitler hairdos?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on August 15, 2017, 01:13:22 AM
The University of Nevada has I think correctly stated that this idiot can remain a student - what I cannot understand is how he keeps whatever university job that he currently has (and I'm not sure where that is, no one I know can tell me where he works, but apparently has a student job).

Merck CEO Chairman Ken Fraizer resigns from the President's American council on Manufacturing. Within minutes Trump is blowing him up on twitter. You'd think it's a bad parody if it wasn't real.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 15, 2017, 01:36:56 AM
There are many parallels between these Trump supporting fascists 'protecting' their 'culture' from 'annihilation'  and the union flag orange mob protestors in Belfast. Peas of same pod, if that's the saying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 15, 2017, 01:57:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2017, 03:06:10 PM
Looks like the social media world is mounting a campaign to name and shame the white power marchers from the weekend. The kid from Nevada, who confirmed his indentity, and who was on about "protecting white European culture" looks a particularly formidable intellect! Unfortunately for him, this shit is going to follow him around forever, even if he does eventually grow a brain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4786826/Nationalist-FIRED-Twitter-names-shames-protesters.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4786826/Nationalist-FIRED-Twitter-names-shames-protesters.html)

Is it just me, or are a bunch of these halfwits sporting Hitler hairdos?

So next time out, theyll just mask up like the Antifa rabble,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 15, 2017, 03:17:06 AM
Whitey, not only have you taken the moral low ground, you've just now started to dig.  Talk about what happened in Charlottesville.  Armed Nazis (camo-wearing, gun toting, shield-bearing, helmet-wearing, club-wielding white supremacists) squared off against civil rights protesters. The police did nothing. It reminded me of Burntollet Bridge, except that a woman died.  You are siding with the Fascists. "Whitey." How appropriate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 15, 2017, 03:24:12 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 15, 2017, 03:17:06 AM
Whitey, not only have you taken the moral low ground, you've just now started to dig.  Talk about what happened in Charlottesville.  Armed Nazis (camo-wearing, gun toting, shield-bearing, helmet-wearing, club-wielding white supremacists) squared off against civil rights protesters. The police did nothing. It reminded me of Burntollet Bridge, except that a woman died.  You are siding with the Fascists. "Whitey." How appropriate.

Absolutely not.....on my social media feed all day, I have seen post after post seeking to identify these idiots and have them fired from their jobs.....and I was responding to another posters observation of the same thing.....it was a tongue in cheek comment

And do some research....Antifa scum are not civil rights protesters....theyre scum exactly the same as the white supremicists are scum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 15, 2017, 03:50:44 AM
Not satire:

Republicans in six states are trying to legalize the ramming of protestors with vehicles. https://thinkprogress.org/republican-lawmakers-in-6-states-are-trying-to-protect-drivers-who-hit-protesters-4da6e6ebaa59/ (https://thinkprogress.org/republican-lawmakers-in-6-states-are-trying-to-protect-drivers-who-hit-protesters-4da6e6ebaa59/)

For their next trick they're going to legalize the flying of aircraft into buildings. There's no depth these evil conservative cretins will sink to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 15, 2017, 03:24:12 AM


And do some research....Antifa scum are not civil rights protesters....theyre scum exactly the same as the white supremicists are scum.
Ah yes, the old "people who fight against the continuing systematic discrimination against people of colour are just the same as KKK Nazis who want to go back to Jim Crow times, riot with flaming torches and deliberately drive cars into peaceful protestors in order to kill them" card.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 15, 2017, 11:11:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 15, 2017, 03:24:12 AM


And do some research....Antifa scum are not civil rights protesters....theyre scum exactly the same as the white supremicists are scum.
Ah yes, the old "people who fight against the continuing systematic discrimination against people of colour are just the same as KKK Nazis who want to go back to Jim Crow times, riot with flaming torches and deliberately drive cars into peaceful protestors in order to kill them" card.

So you can act the sc**bag as long as you are acting the sc**bag against the KKK Nazis scumbags? Is that the jist of it?

Scum is scum, right wing scum is no different than left wing scum!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 11:30:31 AM
Quote from: stew on August 15, 2017, 11:11:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 15, 2017, 03:24:12 AM


And do some research....Antifa scum are not civil rights protesters....theyre scum exactly the same as the white supremicists are scum.
Ah yes, the old "people who fight against the continuing systematic discrimination against people of colour are just the same as KKK Nazis who want to go back to Jim Crow times, riot with flaming torches and deliberately drive cars into peaceful protestors in order to kill them" card.

So you can act the sc**bag as long as you are acting the sc**bag against the KKK Nazis scumbags? Is that the jist of it?

Scum is scum, right wing scum is no different than left wing scum!

Scum = people like you who equate Black Lives Matter or any other "left-wing" protest groups you don't like with KKK Nazis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 11:35:45 AM
The KKK is the political equivalent of maggots. The GOP is in serious trouble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 11:44:00 AM
With Trump supporting the Nazis the choice is between coexistence and apartheid.
I can't see Michigan Rotary club ladies voting GOP in 2018.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 15, 2017, 11:49:01 AM
Quote from: stew on August 15, 2017, 11:11:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 15, 2017, 03:24:12 AM


And do some research....Antifa scum are not civil rights protesters....theyre scum exactly the same as the white supremicists are scum.
Ah yes, the old "people who fight against the continuing systematic discrimination against people of colour are just the same as KKK Nazis who want to go back to Jim Crow times, riot with flaming torches and deliberately drive cars into peaceful protestors in order to kill them" card.

So you can act the sc**bag as long as you are acting the sc**bag against the KKK Nazis scumbags? Is that the jist of it?

Scum is scum, right wing scum is no different than left wing scum!

So we should just let KKK Nazi scumbags do what they like then?? How did that work out last time??!!

Poor little Reublican snowflake KKK Nazi's don't like it when people call out their bullshit well tough luck!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2017, 03:06:10 PM
Looks like the social media world is mounting a campaign to name and shame the white power marchers from the weekend. The kid from Nevada, who confirmed his indentity, and who was on about "protecting white European culture" looks a particularly formidable intellect! Unfortunately for him, this shit is going to follow him around forever, even if he does eventually grow a brain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4786826/Nationalist-FIRED-Twitter-names-shames-protesters.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4786826/Nationalist-FIRED-Twitter-names-shames-protesters.html)

Is it just me, or are a bunch of these halfwits sporting Hitler hairdos?
They have fash haircuts . For fascists. They are pond life. Trying to downsize what they did. Evil is evil. And then Vanguard disown the car driver. Zero honour 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2017, 01:36:56 AM
There are many parallels between these Trump supporting fascists 'protecting' their 'culture' from 'annihilation'  and the union flag orange mob protestors in Belfast. Peas of same pod, if that's the saying.
A lot of KKK people originally were Ulster Scots. It is a very dysfunctional culture.
Scottish culture is grand. I wonder why there is a difference
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 15, 2017, 12:06:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2017, 10:31:00 PM
At least GOPers like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio have the balls and morals to condemn these scumbags. Trump seems to be listening to David Duke, who told him to remember that "White Americans" elected him, not "radical leftists".

What kind of person would don torches and confederate flags and Nazi salutes and guns and show up to "protest" the removal of a confederate statue, never mind drive a car into a crowd full of counter protestors?

Is their's a noble or even valid cause?


They showed up in their hundreds of thousands, er they showed up in their tens of thousands, er, they showed up in their thousands, aaaahhhh ok then a couple of hundred of them showed up, big, big rally, they obviously have the support of white Americans! Do me a favour!
Is it ok for a president who never hesitates to reach for the most explicit and inflammatory rhetoric when it comes to muslims or immigrants or even Senators from his own party to tiptoe around white supremacists because they were among the most enthusiastic element of his constituency? Is he THAT dependent on their support?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 15, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: stew on August 15, 2017, 12:06:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2017, 10:31:00 PM
At least GOPers like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio have the balls and morals to condemn these scumbags. Trump seems to be listening to David Duke, who told him to remember that "White Americans" elected him, not "radical leftists".

What kind of person would don torches and confederate flags and Nazi salutes and guns and show up to "protest" the removal of a confederate statue, never mind drive a car into a crowd full of counter protestors?

Is their's a noble or even valid cause?


They showed up in their hundreds of thousands, er they showed up in their tens of thousands, er, they showed up in their thousands, aaaahhhh ok then a couple of hundred of them showed up, big, big rally, they obviously have the support of white Americans! Do me a favour!
Is it ok for a president who never hesitates to reach for the most explicit and inflammatory rhetoric when it comes to muslims or immigrants or even Senators from his own party to tiptoe around white supremacists because they were among the most enthusiastic element of his constituency? Is he THAT dependent on their support?

Where did I say they have broad support?

My comment was about Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 15, 2017, 01:16:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 15, 2017, 03:24:12 AM


And do some research....Antifa scum are not civil rights protesters....theyre scum exactly the same as the white supremicists are scum.
Ah yes, the old "people who fight against the continuing systematic discrimination against people of colour are just the same as KKK Nazis who want to go back to Jim Crow times, riot with flaming torches and deliberately drive cars into peaceful protestors in order to kill them" card.


I specifically said Antifa not once but TWICE.  They are anarchists!

While I may not agree with many of the tactics of a group like BLM, I don't think nor ever said they are scum. 

FFS even many on the left have serious issues about Antifa:

http://www.occupy.com/article/letter-american-left-antifa-not-your-friend#sthash.RvG68lFC.dpbs


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 01:23:04 PM

This plus Russian collusion. Some president

https://www.ft.com/tour.
   https://www.ft.com/content/2cb0f04c-80fe-11e7-94e2-c5b903247afd

   President Donald Trump condemned white supremacist groups by name for the first time on Monday after violent protests in Virginia, but a two-day delay before he acted prompted harsh criticism from business leaders and defections from a corporate advisory council by the chief executives of Intel, Merck, and Under Armour.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2017, 01:36:56 AM
There are many parallels between these Trump supporting fascists 'protecting' their 'culture' from 'annihilation'  and the union flag orange mob protestors in Belfast. Peas of same pod, if that's the saying.
A lot of KKK people originally were Ulster Scots. It is a very dysfunctional culture.
Scottish culture is grand. I wonder why there is a difference

Source/links?

You are getting worse than TF   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: From the Bunker on August 15, 2017, 01:47:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2017, 01:36:56 AM
There are many parallels between these Trump supporting fascists 'protecting' their 'culture' from 'annihilation'  and the union flag orange mob protestors in Belfast. Peas of same pod, if that's the saying.
A lot of KKK people originally were Ulster Scots. It is a very dysfunctional culture.
Scottish culture is grand. I wonder why there is a difference

Source/links?

You are getting worse than TF   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIEcqwBp4Lg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIEcqwBp4Lg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2017, 01:36:56 AM
There are many parallels between these Trump supporting fascists 'protecting' their 'culture' from 'annihilation'  and the union flag orange mob protestors in Belfast. Peas of same pod, if that's the saying.
A lot of KKK people originally were Ulster Scots. It is a very dysfunctional culture.
Scottish culture is grand. I wonder why there is a difference

Source/links?

You are getting worse than TF   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
http://www.tartansauthority.com/Global-Scots/us-scots-history/hillbillies-and-rednecks

Hillbillies
The origin of this American nickname for mountain folk in the Ozarks and in Appalachia comes from Ulster. Ulster-Scottish (The often incorrectly labeled "Scots-Irish") settlers in the hill-country of Appalachia brought their traditional music with them to the new world, and many of their songs and ballads dealt with William, Prince of Orange, who defeated the Catholic King James II of the Stuart family at the Battle of the Boyne, Ireland in 1690.

Supporters of King William were known as Orangemen and Billy Boys and their North American counterparts were soon referred to as hill-billies. It is interesting to note that a traditional song of the Glasgow Rangers football club today begins with the line, 'Hurrah! Hurrah! We are the Billy Boys!' and shares its tune with the famous American Civil War song, Marching Through Georgia.

Stories abound of American National Guard units from Southern states being met upon disembarking in Britain during the First and Second World Wars with that tune, much to their displeasure! One of these stories comes from Colonel Ward Schrantz, a noted historian and native of Carthage, Missouri ative, and veteran of the Mexican - and veteran of the mexican Border Campaign, as well as the First and Second World Wars - documented a story where the US Army's 30th Division, made up of National Guard units from Georgia, North and South Carolina and Tennessee arrived in the United Kingdom...'a waiting British band broke into welcoming American music, and the soldiery, even the 118th Field Artillery and the 105 Medical Battalion from Georgia, broke into laughter.The excellence of intent and the ignorance of the origins of the American music being equally obvious. The welcoming tune was Marching Through Georgia.'

Redneck
The origins of this term are Scottish and refer to supporters of the National Covenant and The Solemn League and Covenant, or Covenanters, largely Lowland Presbyterians, many of whom would flee Scotland for Ulster (Northern Ireland) during persecutions by the British Crown. The Covenanters of 1638 and 1641 signed the documents that stated that Scotland desired the Presbyterian form of church government and would not accept the Church of England as its official state church.

Many Covenanters signed in their own blood and wore red pieces of cloth around their necks as distinctive insignia; hence the term Red neck, which became slang for a Scottish dissenter. One Scottish immigrant, interviewed by the author, remembered a Presbyterian minister, one Dr. Coulter, in Glasgow in the 1940's wearing a red clerical collar - is this symbolic of the rednecks? Since many Ulster-Scottish settlers in America (especially in the South) were Presbyterian, the term was applied to them, and then, later, their Southern descendants. One of the earliest examples of its use comes from 1830, when an author noted that red-neck was a name bestowed upon the Presbyterians. It makes one wonder if the originators of the ever-present redneck jokes are aware of the term's origins

The KKK were poor white red-neck trash
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 03:39:58 PM


   https://www.ft.com/content/758e8e12-810a-11e7-a4ce-15b2513cb3ff

   The Trump administration recently killed an effort to use online technologies to draw people away from extremism, axing a $400,000 grant for a deradicalisation group called Life after Hate in Chicago. Run by several former members of white nationalist organisations, the group was planning to use counter extremism technologies pioneered by Moonshot of London
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 15, 2017, 09:25:11 PM
There's still fault on all sides it seems not just the Neio Nazi's!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 15, 2017, 09:35:49 PM
Did anyone just hear Trumps rant.....my god is he unstable

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 15, 2017, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 15, 2017, 09:35:49 PM
Did anyone just hear Trumps rant.....my god is he unstable

He basically just defended the alt-right, promoted in vineyard in Virginia and walked out. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on August 15, 2017, 10:07:27 PM
He also said the victims mother said great things about them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on August 15, 2017, 10:26:26 PM
Sweet Jesus...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 15, 2017, 10:31:57 PM
Stupid Trump turning out to be more stupid than expected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 15, 2017, 10:32:07 PM
Even Fox are tearing into him  :o

https://twitter.com/molly_knight/status/897570009500667905
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 01:41:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 15, 2017, 09:35:49 PM
Did anyone just hear Trumps rant.....my god is he unstable

His feelings were hurt by all the criticism and he can't take it!

I mean... the George WAshington statue, slippery slope stuff???

Does he not get that Washington or Jefferson, while slave owners, as were all southern gentlemen of their time, are honoured for their applicable roles in the revolution, the founding of the country, forming the role of the president and drafting the constitution and so on?

Statues of them are NOT there because they were slave owners.

Lee, Davis and Stonewall Jackson et al. are honoured and venerated for their leadership of the Confederate Army and state, institutions dedicated to the preservation of slavery.

I get that Trump probably read some half-baked blog before he went out to his press conference, but is he really this stupid that he can't see the difference?

At least David Duke is happy with him again!

And while the violence on all sides should be condemned and penalized, the issue here is that one side is promoting white supremacy and one side is counter-protesting that! The material advertizing the Charlotteville march was replete with third reich eagles and everything. His claim that not all of the alt right people who were there were necessarily racist is irrelevant. The event itself was racist. If some moron showed up thinking it was only about the Lee statue, he should have turned his arse about straight away when he saw the get up of the crowd.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 01:43:19 AM
Fox News criticizing Trump. This is uncharted territory.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 16, 2017, 03:21:02 AM
The peaceful white group, he would consider to have the permit with the little torches, had a crew from Vice/HBO and they were shouting Blood and Soil and anti semetic chants. And that was ALL of that group who had the permit.
I laugh when I see these people saying 'Not my President' or 'not my country' well yes it is and always has been. It's an awful racist kip and it hasn't started with Trump, he is just an enabler.

And these CEOs leaving were happy enough with all his other shite up to now.

He is the President they deserve. Is it not time to start a third party?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 01:43:19 AM
Fox News criticizing Trump. This is uncharted territory.
Fox depends on ads.
There are very few Yank Nazis with money
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 16, 2017, 10:18:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 01:43:19 AM
Fox News criticizing Trump. This is uncharted territory.
Fox depends on ads.
There are very few Yank Nazis with money

There are very few Nazi yanks period, end of!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 10:55:41 AM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2017, 10:18:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 01:43:19 AM
Fox News criticizing Trump. This is uncharted territory.
Fox depends on ads.
There are very few Yank Nazis with money

There are very few Nazi yanks period, end of!

Either there are enough of them to make Trump see their support as significant, or he really does have some core beliefs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on August 16, 2017, 12:22:24 PM
Was listening to a Radio Program from the States ?(on RTE One Extra).  Is is it true that Alaska is being opened to sport hunting of Black Bears even Cubs?  Is this true? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 16, 2017, 12:46:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2017, 10:55:41 AM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2017, 10:18:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 01:43:19 AM
Fox News criticizing Trump. This is uncharted territory.
Fox depends on ads.
There are very few Yank Nazis with money

There are very few Nazi yanks period, end of!

Either there are enough of them to make Trump see their support as significant, or he really does have some core beliefs.

If there are enough of them where were they???
You know there are not plenty of them but hey, the liberals are all about taking down statues and spitting on them ad kicking them etc, throwing pish at the police etc, whats next? burning books and going after citizens that think differently???

Or he can believe his own eyes, two groups of knackers going at each other and the cops standing back and taking it all in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 12:52:47 PM
Try putting up a statue of Erwin Rommel in Germany and see how you get on.

I guess the Germans are "rewriting history" by not having any statues of Nazis.

Or something something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 01:09:22 PM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2017, 12:46:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2017, 10:55:41 AM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2017, 10:18:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 01:43:19 AM
Fox News criticizing Trump. This is uncharted territory.
Fox depends on ads.
There are very few Yank Nazis with money

There are very few Nazi yanks period, end of!

Either there are enough of them to make Trump see their support as significant, or he really does have some core beliefs.

If there are enough of them where were they???
You know there are not plenty of them but hey, the liberals are all about taking down statues and spitting on them ad kicking them etc, throwing pish at the police etc, whats next? burning books and going after citizens that think differently???

Or he can believe his own eyes, two groups of knackers going at each other and the cops standing back and taking it all in.

I didn't say there were a lot of them.

I said, clearly, that either there are a lot of them (or he believes there are and he doesn't want to lose the support of) OR he actually really believes in some of the same shite they do. There is no other rational explanation for his latest unhinged performances.

And the issue is his giving comfort to the alt right and his drawing a moral equivalence between their ethos and the people who oppose them. We are not talking about a debate over the best way to raise government revenue or to run healthcare, which morally sound people could legitimately disagree over. This is not some academic argument over some theory of running a country.

As for the statues, how about let's stick a big monument to the Parachute Regiment up on the Bogside. It's just a statue after all. Or a few busts of Billy Wright around Armagh?

Lee, Jackson, Davis and the rest were trying to save slavery. They don't deserve to be honoured. The "heritage" they represent is repugnant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2017, 01:39:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2017, 01:36:56 AM
There are many parallels between these Trump supporting fascists 'protecting' their 'culture' from 'annihilation'  and the union flag orange mob protestors in Belfast. Peas of same pod, if that's the saying.
A lot of KKK people originally were Ulster Scots. It is a very dysfunctional culture.
Scottish culture is grand. I wonder why there is a difference

Source/links?

You are getting worse than TF   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
http://www.tartansauthority.com/Global-Scots/us-scots-history/hillbillies-and-rednecks

Hillbillies
The origin of this American nickname for mountain folk in the Ozarks and in Appalachia comes from Ulster. Ulster-Scottish (The often incorrectly labeled "Scots-Irish") settlers in the hill-country of Appalachia brought their traditional music with them to the new world, and many of their songs and ballads dealt with William, Prince of Orange, who defeated the Catholic King James II of the Stuart family at the Battle of the Boyne, Ireland in 1690.

Supporters of King William were known as Orangemen and Billy Boys and their North American counterparts were soon referred to as hill-billies. It is interesting to note that a traditional song of the Glasgow Rangers football club today begins with the line, 'Hurrah! Hurrah! We are the Billy Boys!' and shares its tune with the famous American Civil War song, Marching Through Georgia.

Stories abound of American National Guard units from Southern states being met upon disembarking in Britain during the First and Second World Wars with that tune, much to their displeasure! One of these stories comes from Colonel Ward Schrantz, a noted historian and native of Carthage, Missouri ative, and veteran of the Mexican - and veteran of the mexican Border Campaign, as well as the First and Second World Wars - documented a story where the US Army's 30th Division, made up of National Guard units from Georgia, North and South Carolina and Tennessee arrived in the United Kingdom...'a waiting British band broke into welcoming American music, and the soldiery, even the 118th Field Artillery and the 105 Medical Battalion from Georgia, broke into laughter.The excellence of intent and the ignorance of the origins of the American music being equally obvious. The welcoming tune was Marching Through Georgia.'

Redneck
The origins of this term are Scottish and refer to supporters of the National Covenant and The Solemn League and Covenant, or Covenanters, largely Lowland Presbyterians, many of whom would flee Scotland for Ulster (Northern Ireland) during persecutions by the British Crown. The Covenanters of 1638 and 1641 signed the documents that stated that Scotland desired the Presbyterian form of church government and would not accept the Church of England as its official state church.

Many Covenanters signed in their own blood and wore red pieces of cloth around their necks as distinctive insignia; hence the term Red neck, which became slang for a Scottish dissenter. One Scottish immigrant, interviewed by the author, remembered a Presbyterian minister, one Dr. Coulter, in Glasgow in the 1940's wearing a red clerical collar - is this symbolic of the rednecks? Since many Ulster-Scottish settlers in America (especially in the South) were Presbyterian, the term was applied to them, and then, later, their Southern descendants. One of the earliest examples of its use comes from 1830, when an author noted that red-neck was a name bestowed upon the Presbyterians. It makes one wonder if the originators of the ever-present redneck jokes are aware of the term's origins

The KKK were poor white red-neck trash

so all hill billies are KKK?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 16, 2017, 02:16:20 PM
More like all KKK were Hillbillies. . . much like they are all Republican also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 16, 2017, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 12:52:47 PM
Try putting up a statue of Erwin Rommel in Germany and see how you get on.

I guess the Germans are "rewriting history" by not having any statues of Nazis.

Or something something.

Siddels, the statue the liberal scumbags tore down had stood for a hundred years  funnily enough until your smowflake friends showed up no one had a problem with it, the cops are going to be making arrests and stop these knackers from going taliban again and from destroying national monuments that have stood for more than a lifetime, go burn sone books siddels (
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 03:01:50 PM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2017, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 12:52:47 PM
Try putting up a statue of Erwin Rommel in Germany and see how you get on.

I guess the Germans are "rewriting history" by not having any statues of Nazis.

Or something something.

Siddels, the statue the liberal scumbags tore down had stood for a hundred years  funnily enough until your smowflake friends showed up no one had a problem with it, the cops are going to be making arrests and stop these knackers from going taliban again and from destroying national monuments that have stood for more than a lifetime, go burn sone books siddels (

It went up in the 20s, you know, the zenith of KKK membership and activism in the US.

How much support do you think this statue had in the town of Durham, where less than half the population are white?

You think the average black person wants to sit at the foot of a confederate statue in their local town centre?

What's your opinion on the toppling of the Saddam statue in Baghdad?

Or the blowing up of Nelson's Pillar in O'Connell St in 1966?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 03:03:03 PM
I don't think Trump is 'causing' this stuff, I think he is exposing it. It appears that there is a deep and widening rift in the US between left and right. That's rarely smooth riding, and the sooner a recalibration of the centre comes around, the better. To see left wing protesters behaving like that in North Carolina was fairly startling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 03:03:03 PM
I don't think Trump is 'causing' this stuff, I think he is exposing it. It appears that there is a deep and widening rift in the US between left and right. That's rarely smooth riding, and the sooner a recalibration of the centre comes around, the better. To see left wing protesters behaving like that in North Carolina was fairly startling.

Perhaps, but they will pay the legal penalties for their actions.

Part of the issue, apparently, was they tired of waiting for the political channels to act and were stung into action by the events of Charlottesville.

Dylan Roof unleashed the Confederate symbol stuff. It's not going back in the bottle.

And yes, Trump is an outcome, albeit a collaborative one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 03:15:53 PM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2017, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 12:52:47 PM
Try putting up a statue of Erwin Rommel in Germany and see how you get on.

I guess the Germans are "rewriting history" by not having any statues of Nazis.

Or something something.

Siddels, the statue the liberal scumbags tore down had stood for a hundred years  funnily enough until your smowflake friends showed up no one had a problem with it, the cops are going to be making arrests and stop these knackers from going taliban again and from destroying national monuments that have stood for more than a lifetime, go burn sone books siddels (
So what?

Loads of things which don't represent racism and slavery stand for 100 years and are demolished.

The statue represents racism and slavery, it's not wanted and a democratic decision was taken to remove it.

What's that line you right-wing weirdos loving trotting out, again?

Oh yeah, "you lost, get over it".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 16, 2017, 03:21:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 03:03:03 PM
I don't think Trump is 'causing' this stuff, I think he is exposing it. It appears that there is a deep and widening rift in the US between left and right. That's rarely smooth riding, and the sooner a recalibration of the centre comes around, the better. To see left wing protesters behaving like that in North Carolina was fairly startling.

Is Trump a cause of this? Yeah I really think he is some of his campaign rhetoric about "these people" and "punch 'em in the face" and "I know what we would have done in the old days" is driving what we're seeing now.

The Nazi's and White Supremacist's views have been taken into the mainstream and they think it's acceptable now because the President is saying it.

While America has come a long way in terms of racism I think this is a critical point and these Supremacists/Nazi's need put back in their box so that the country can move on!!

Trump needs to get the f**k out too. . . Is there any possible way things would be worse under Clinton?!

I think not!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 03:38:18 PM
I think Trump has exposed it. He's not making people hold these views, but as you say he is probably facilitating and emboldening them.

In terms of racism, I think the US has undoubtedly come a long way from the Jim Crow laws etc, however in terms of race tension, I'm not sure it has.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 03:58:46 PM
Some Nazi in Google wrote a memo saying women were not physically or emotionally capable of being engineers. All hell broke loose. The CEO wanted to have a town hall meeting to discuss. It was abandoned after the Nazis threatened to attack anyone who spoke, on social media 
Milo Yiannopolis was in the middle of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 05:35:01 PM
I used to think The Man in the High Castle was far-fetched.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on August 16, 2017, 05:45:04 PM
I watched the Handmaid's Tale and genuinely thought this is not a million miles away from a possible future scenario.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on August 16, 2017, 05:46:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 03:15:53 PM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2017, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 12:52:47 PM
Try putting up a statue of Erwin Rommel in Germany and see how you get on.

I guess the Germans are "rewriting history" by not having any statues of Nazis.

Or something something.

Siddels, the statue the liberal scumbags tore down had stood for a hundred years  funnily enough until your smowflake friends showed up no one had a problem with it, the cops are going to be making arrests and stop these knackers from going taliban again and from destroying national monuments that have stood for more than a lifetime, go burn sone books siddels (
So what?

Loads of things which don't represent racism and slavery stand for 100 years and are demolished.

The statue represents racism and slavery, it's not wanted and a democratic decision was taken to remove it.

What's that line you right-wing weirdos loving trotting out, again?

Oh yeah, "you lost, get over it".

I'm pretty sure there was no democratic decision to remove this statue other than a group of protestors deciding they would march down and vandalize the statue.
The statue represented the confederate soldiers that died in the war, not all of them owned slaves and a lot of men off color died fighting for the confederate states.
Nazis and KKK walking down a street shouting some rotten chants is taking things deplorably low, the protestors pulling down statues is taking  their argument in the same direction and not helping matters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on August 16, 2017, 05:46:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 03:15:53 PM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2017, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 12:52:47 PM
Try putting up a statue of Erwin Rommel in Germany and see how you get on.

I guess the Germans are "rewriting history" by not having any statues of Nazis.

Or something something.

Siddels, the statue the liberal scumbags tore down had stood for a hundred years  funnily enough until your smowflake friends showed up no one had a problem with it, the cops are going to be making arrests and stop these knackers from going taliban again and from destroying national monuments that have stood for more than a lifetime, go burn sone books siddels (
So what?

Loads of things which don't represent racism and slavery stand for 100 years and are demolished.

The statue represents racism and slavery, it's not wanted and a democratic decision was taken to remove it.

What's that line you right-wing weirdos loving trotting out, again?

Oh yeah, "you lost, get over it".

I'm pretty sure there was no democratic decision to remove this statue other than a group of protestors deciding they would march down and vandalize the statue.
The statue represented the confederate soldiers that died in the war, not all of them owned slaves and a lot of men off color died fighting for the confederate states.
Nazis and KKK walking down a street shouting some rotten chants is taking things deplorably low, the protestors pulling down statues is taking  their argument in the same direction and not helping matters.
the decision to remove the statue was made in a democratic vote. there is no comparison to that and Nazis marching with fire.

"If you hear the dogs, keep going. If you see the torches in the woods, keep going. If there's shouting after you, keep going. Don't ever stop. Keep going. If you want a taste of freedom, keep going."

is a Harriet Tubman quote from the age of slavery
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on August 16, 2017, 06:16:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on August 16, 2017, 05:46:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 03:15:53 PM
Quote from: stew on August 16, 2017, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 12:52:47 PM
Try putting up a statue of Erwin Rommel in Germany and see how you get on.

I guess the Germans are "rewriting history" by not having any statues of Nazis.

Or something something.

Siddels, the statue the liberal scumbags tore down had stood for a hundred years  funnily enough until your smowflake friends showed up no one had a problem with it, the cops are going to be making arrests and stop these knackers from going taliban again and from destroying national monuments that have stood for more than a lifetime, go burn sone books siddels (
So what?

Loads of things which don't represent racism and slavery stand for 100 years and are demolished.

The statue represents racism and slavery, it's not wanted and a democratic decision was taken to remove it.

What's that line you right-wing weirdos loving trotting out, again?

Oh yeah, "you lost, get over it".

I'm pretty sure there was no democratic decision to remove this statue other than a group of protestors deciding they would march down and vandalize the statue.
The statue represented the confederate soldiers that died in the war, not all of them owned slaves and a lot of men off color died fighting for the confederate states.
Nazis and KKK walking down a street shouting some rotten chants is taking things deplorably low, the protestors pulling down statues is taking  their argument in the same direction and not helping matters.
the decision to remove the statue was made in a democratic vote. there is no comparison to that and Nazis marching with fire.

"If you hear the dogs, keep going. If you see the torches in the woods, keep going. If there's shouting after you, keep going. Don't ever stop. Keep going. If you want a taste of freedom, keep going."

is a Harriet Tubman quote from the age of slavery

They passed a law in that state in 2015 that no historical monuments can be removed without the permission of the state. You may not like how this law was passed but it is there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 06:20:50 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on August 16, 2017, 05:46:27 PM
I'm pretty sure there was no democratic decision to remove this statue other than a group of protestors deciding they would march down and vandalize the statue.
The statue represented the confederate soldiers that died in the war, not all of them owned slaves and a lot of men off color died fighting for the confederate states.
Nazis and KKK walking down a street shouting some rotten chants is taking things deplorably low, the protestors pulling down statues is taking  their argument in the same direction and not helping matters.

They fought and died to defend slavery. F*** them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 16, 2017, 06:30:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 06:09:44 PMthe decision to remove the statue was made in a democratic vote. there is no comparison to that and Nazis marching with fire.

"If you hear the dogs, keep going. If you see the torches in the woods, keep going. If there's shouting after you, keep going. Don't ever stop. Keep going. If you want a taste of freedom, keep going."

is a Harriet Tubman quote from the age of slavery

You are getting 2 incidents mixed up - the incident in Charlottesville - which was voted on

There was another incident in Durham, NC where a monument was just pulled down by protesters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 06:44:53 PM
Whoever put those statues up should be arrested for treason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 07:57:03 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 03:38:18 PM
I think Trump has exposed it. He's not making people hold these views, but as you say he is probably facilitating and emboldening them.

In terms of racism, I think the US has undoubtedly come a long way from the Jim Crow laws etc, however in terms of race tension, I'm not sure it has.
Bannon backs the Nazis.  Trump is an appeaser as well as a fruitcake. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on August 16, 2017, 09:33:29 PM
I'm posting this with a certain amount of trepidation given the tensions about what's going on but anyway here goes. In light of recent happenings I'd like to add a few words as to my observations and experience from getting some first hand (online) encounters with what is known as the Alt-right. This is from my own research, reading, infiltration and online engagement with members and affiliates. This is in order to give the long view of why Charlottesville happened the way it did. It is far from being as black and white as it seems to be portrayed in the media.

This is something I've been working on in my spare time for quite a while now which was going to be blog or something but I've abandoned it as real life commitments have taken over. The hope I had for the blog was to bring both sides together to have sensible and constructive debates on issues and hopefully deescalate things and hopefully find a new way forward. But unfortunately the time and effort to do this just beyond me with all the other commitments I have and I just hope that there is someone else out there doing it. I've still kept abreast of the situation and I feel compelled dive in again to put this out there in light of recent events and to give people a bit more detail.

The reason I became interested in this subject is because I always felt that despite what was being touted by many, nationalism hasn't died and race or group identity did still matter, despite what Amartya Sen wrote in his book Identity and Violence. It felt this new movement was bound to happen eventually (see Carol M Swains book from 2002 quite accurately predicted it) and the issues that surround it (immigration, multiculturalism and identity) will probably be the defining issue of mine and possibly the next generation if not the current century. I've always been skeptical of people who touted the line diversity and multiculturalism are unending gifts upon us benighted yokels. Nothing is ever that straight forward.

And so even if the Alt-right as we know it goes away or is taken apart, the issues that propelled it aren't going away. When people talk about the end of history or being on the right or wrong side of history, it's incredibly naive way of thinking and shows that they really haven't been paying attention to the details and looking down the line.

This isn't an endorsement of their ideas or a defence but rather to explain why this happened. I'm trying to put the causes and concerns AS THEY SEE IT in as plain and neutral terms as I can without picking through their ideas on race or whatever. I will add my own critique in as required. For the sake of clarity and detail I will only name those as fascist who would describe themselves as such.

I first came across the Alt-right largely by accident around 2011 while Obama was in power and no one could have foreseen a Trump presidency. Back then it was just a website being run by three figures, Richard Spencer, Colin Liddell and Andy Nowicki. Of course there were others like American Renaissance and Vdare going a lot longer and with much greyer and older audiences.

It was at that point the alternative right was non-existent outside of its own little corner of the internet. It had some critiques of modernity, liberalism and neo-conservatism that you wouldn't read anywhere else.  But from 2012 onwards saw the beginnings of a swell in numbers of visitors to their websites. This was largely set off by events like the Ferguson riots, Baltimore and Treyvon Martin. Not just the riots themselves but also the biases shown in the national media which often ignored or skewed events as they were being reported by local media or eyewitness accounts.

Also as political correctness and "cultural Marxist" (for lack of a better term) ideas began to take hold in public discourse, in the workplace or in schools, people were looking for places to have more liberal discourse, in the true sense of the word. You have to remember that this was a generation that was brought up to think that there were no more taboos, no sacred cows and that nothing was off the table when it came to either serious discussion or humour. However it began to appear to them that that wasn't actually the case anymore. There were suddenly subjects that you couldn't discuss. They also found that if you were a "privileged white male" indeed none of your cows were sacred.

There is also 4chan culture which is an online forum where basically anything goes. I don't really anything about it myself but I think that was a sort of a seedbed for the use of internet memes to spread political dissent and ideas.

Roots
But going back to the root causes of this movement, it would be inaccurate to suggest this is solely a reaction to Obama being president. Many in the Alt-Right voted for Obama. Even Richard Spencer said he would take Obama over John McCain any day.

Largely it is down to the failure of the Neo-conservatives and Buckley-ite conservatives to stand up and be counted on the issues that they felt mattered. They appeared to continually back down on issues and in a decade or so would end up defending what was once a leftist position. That and also putting the interests big business or corporations ahead of the actual people on the ground.

The other big factor was disillusionment following the Iraq and Afghan wars. For many of those who came home from the war many ended up asking who was it really for and what good was it for America. There are a considerable number of war vets in the Alt-right but I don't know how many.

The first movement in this direction wasn't so much the Tea Party but the Libertarian party and Ron Paul. This was the first movement away from mainstream conservatism. However the short comings of Libertarianism was that it didn't address the issues that many young people were increasingly concerned about namely immigration and displacement. It was too highly individualistic and negated the commons almost entirely. Once again the mainstream medias treatment of Ron Paul including Fox News angered many. A growing resentment for the media was festering by this point. Slowly a left and right wing split emerged in Libertarianism and it seems to have dissipated as a cohesive movement. A large number on the right eventually moving into the Alt-Right.

There are also those who came straight across from the left or centre left. These would have been Obama and even Bernie supporters. Among these were people who had believed that race was a thing of the past once Obama was elected. However for these people it seemed race rather than going away became an everyday issue that was asking them to check their language for "micro-aggressions" or "privileges" and so forth. Not only that but in their view, there was an emerging double standard in both media representations and policies that treated other ethnic groups differently than equally.

In other words, some white people believed the political, commercial and cultural establishment had, for a whole myriad of reasons, saw them as something to be attacked, torn down and neutralised for short term financial, political and ideological gains. Of course with the internet now the monopoly over the narrative surrounding events has been broken for good or ill.

Alt-Right & New Right
The Alt-right is a very broad tent ideologically, and different people and groups stop at various points along the right. However one division within it that is worth noting is between the New-Right and Alt-Right. There isn't that much different between the two in terms of objectives or ideas but in the means they wish to go about it. In light of what just happened in Charlottesville its important to note the two personalities involved. One being Richard Spencer the other being Greg Johnson. Richard seems to be somewhat of the opinion that there is no such thing as bad publicity. Whether it's his own sense of himself or what but he pursues the spotlight even if it often makes him look stupid. He likes to create spectacles that grab the more than willing medias attention. Richard has a strange symbiotic relationship with the media even though they are adversaries because he plays into their hands and says inflammatory things and it gets spread round because that's what he wants. Greg on the other hand is a reclusive figure who wants to hold private events out of the public spotlight and disperse ideas online as well as publishing books.

The other important side of things is the Right Stuff guys. These were by all accounts a bunch of Joe Soaps who started a Facebook group which later became a podcast and its popularity exploded to the point that eventually the main figures got exposed and had to leave their families and jobs. They didn't start out as radicals but as time went on they went further and further into verboten territory i.e. Holocaust denial and race/iq issues. They've now set themselves up as full time pod casters and political activists. They appear to have grown a network of groups around the country that now gather socially but also recently started to attend various rallies. The main person being Mike Enoch.

here's where the more extreme elements really begin to enter the picture. Because despite that they say they don't condone violence or encourage violence among their members, but they use a lot of violent memes and joke about violence on their show and on their Internet forums. Sure they can say it's a joke but when you put people into high pressure situations like in Charlottesville that's were the lines around jokes, satire and irony can get a bit blurred.

The reason that they say they are using nazi symbolism is the way blacks have claimed the N word. This is because they saw how in trying to have reasonable discussions with the left and they kept getting shut down by being called racist or fascist or nazi. And in political debates mainstream republicans such as Romney and McCain were all "nazis" no matter how reasonable they tried to be or how much they said they loved MLK. There was even a website dedicated to exposing David Cameron as a fascist. So instead of continually backing down the Alt-Right embraced the term. Now because of this they have attracted actual nazis. Mike Enoch even speaking to his own audience cant seem to decide if he's a fascist or not. Unlike the Traditional Workers Party who were in Charlottesville, make no bones about it, they are in their own words fascists. Mike Enoch might say that Unite the Right was about standing up for the rights of White people but if he can't see that not everybody can tell if you're being ironic or satirical when waving a nazi flag and the media and political opponents certainly aren't going to give you the benefit of the doubt. So even though they asked and pleaded with Antifa to not show up at Charlottesville, if they can't decide if they're a fascist or not then they are just being naive or stupid. And tragically they're leading a lot of equally if not more naive young men and women with them into situations likes Charlottesville with them. So even if you don't like their ideas the difference in approach between Richard and Greg is worth noting in the sense that Richards approach is more likely to result in violent confrontation, whereas Greg would at least make every effort to avoid it.

Road to Charlottesville
The road to Charlottesville it could be said begins with the tactic of no platforming that was happening across college campuses in the US.  But also the stifling atmosphere that seems to have enveloped campuses and work places. Mild mannered middle aged controversial intellectuals such as Prof Jordan Peterson or Dr Charles Murray where shut down and harassed, people were fired from their jobs for having dissenting views on issues. So this was increasingly getting people pissed off with the left and drove more and more people to the right.

Things moved a stage further when a Milo Miannopolis(spelling) event at Berkeley was violently shut down by antifa. A young man who attending the event was beaten into a coma. We also saw at various Trump rallies and so forth a lot of violence against attendees, including a masked individual that beat an unsuspecting attendee over the head with a bikelock that almost killed him. The assailant turned out to be a university professor.

So for the now growing Alt-Right who were trying to move from the internet into the real world they were watching all this going on started taking measures to protect themselves, starting off with evasive measures and trickery to make sure antifa doesn't show up at the right venue. However that stopped working and things started to escalate as the alt-right grew and antifa became increasingly violent.

This was all going on when the exposing of Mike Enoch forced him into going full time into political activism. He and Richard and others started trying to take to the streets and making events and rallies which of course then antifa start showing up. Quite often these things passed off with few incidents as the police kept the groups apart. The Alt-Right were able to sue institutions for their constitutional right to free speech that had tried to shut them down. So they were feeling pretty confident ahead of the Unite The Right event at Charlottesville.

However some previous events were held  in more sympathetic towns and locations such as Pikeville in Kentucky.Charlottesville mayoral figures aren't so sympathetic, being Michael Signer and Wes Bellamy, the former a Clinton advocate and Bellamy who apparently holds a strong dislike of whites based on some tweets he made but I can't really comment on that. But there was a concerted effort to have the event called off or moved and the Alt-Right dug its heals in and got the ACLU to fight on their behalf to their right to stage a protest. Now at this point the Alt-Right had received through their informants that antifa were planning to use bottles of concrete and acid to attack them at Charlottesville. Mike Enoch and others then reiterated their message for Antifa to not show up but also advised their own members to remain peaceful but prepared to defend themselves, hence the shields, helmets and so forth which is as far as I can tell isn't illegal so long as you're defending yourself but American posters can fill me in on that. And that includes guns as well.

Now of course, depending entirely on your preferred news source, the story changes as to who was to blame for the violence. Judging on previous form Antifa and BLM have started violence and rioting without any clear provocation or opponents so it's not a huge leap to suggest it was them. Secondly the far right are always a hair trigger away from being clamped down on by the state and the media would never take their side so I don't see what they would have had to gain from instigating violence, since these are people who want to normalise their views. Of course, I wasn't there and some of their members could easily have broke ranks and started attacking but any non msm eyewitness reports suggest otherwise. But you know, there could be biases in there too.

What happened with the car appears to be murder based on what I saw. Some people including Mike Enoch have claimed to have video evidence of the guys car being attacked right before the incident and has shared it with the media but I haven't seen it anywhere. What will become of that incident will be decided in court I guess.

The Alt-Right guys are now shaping up to file lawsuits against Charlottesville and the police while Charlottesville have already filed theirs.

The Road Ahead
whatever happens in the coming weeks ahead even if the alt-right are all locked up, the issues that propelled them into existence haven't gone away and Trump going away won't solve that either.

My closing statement is that I plea with people to take a step back from the extremes. Take time to listen and talk to each other, put the facts above everything else, give each other a fair hearing, don't put words in each other's mouths, be respectful to everyone. Either agree to compromise or agree to disagree but you have to accept that not everyone shares your ideas or wants to live according to your utopian vision. Be humble enough to admit when you are wrong. But you have to talk to each other and debate debate debate and if the other person disagrees with you it doesn't make them a 'nazi' or a 'commie'. These words have become useless and just muddy the truth, please try look past these labels. The primary thing to call out is actual totalitarianism and murderousness. If people want to be different we have to allow them space to be different.

And don't depend on only one side of the aisle for your news. Seek out other arguments and points of view and not just the ones you agree with. Go to the source material if you can, remember every newspaper and blog has in built biases and preferential editing.

A young girl is dead now and other lives destroyed or about to be because of a lack of proper discourse. It all didn't begin or end in Charlottesville. We either have free speech or violence as one wise man once man said. Otherwise we'll have more young people in their prime being lead astray by fools and more bloodshed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 16, 2017, 10:03:15 PM
Juice

Ithink it is driven ultimately by the economic situation. Stagnation. Young people especially have no visible future
Polarisation is everywhere. Look at Brexit.  Things are breaking down. In some country in Europe support for the 2 main parties is 30%. It is a decade since the start of the financial crisis and we are going nowhere. A small cohort of parasites own half of everything. It is worse than Scooby do. The system is controlled by debt holders. The last such system ended in WW2 and the holocaust. And people get used.
When resources are scarce and things are polarised groups get pitched against each other. We need a different system. Things otherwise will just get worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 16, 2017, 11:28:38 PM
Watch it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg&sns=em
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 11:37:48 PM
Quote from: thejuice on August 16, 2017, 09:33:29 PM
But you have to talk to each other and debate debate debate and if the other person disagrees with you it doesn't make them a 'nazi' or a 'commie'.
A person disagreeing with you doesn't make them a Nazi.

But being a Nazi does make them a Nazi.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on August 16, 2017, 11:57:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 11:37:48 PM
Quote from: thejuice on August 16, 2017, 09:33:29 PM
But you have to talk to each other and debate debate debate and if the other person disagrees with you it doesn't make them a 'nazi' or a 'commie'.
A person disagreeing with you doesn't make them a Nazi.

But being a Nazi does make them a Nazi.

Membership still open then so?  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 17, 2017, 12:12:47 AM
Quote from: trileacman on August 16, 2017, 11:57:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 11:37:48 PM
Quote from: thejuice on August 16, 2017, 09:33:29 PM
But you have to talk to each other and debate debate debate and if the other person disagrees with you it doesn't make them a 'nazi' or a 'commie'.
A person disagreeing with you doesn't make them a Nazi.

But being a Nazi does make them a Nazi.

Membership still open then so?  ::)
I must say it would be a strange reading on current events to say there is no such a thing as a Nazi, present tense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2017, 12:31:58 AM
So you have to be a paid-up card-carrying member of Adolf's party before you can be called a Nazi? That's taking hair-splitting to the next level.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on August 17, 2017, 12:44:36 AM
Well since it's perfectly acceptable now to "punch a nazi in the face" or get them fired from their jobs it would be good to have a clear definition of what a nazi is. Also who gets to decide? I'm fairly confident that we've all been called nazi by someone on the net in a political discussion.

So has David Cameron, so has John McCain, Mitt Romney, George Bush, there's even republicans who write books on how Democrats are the real nazis and racists. So how does this work?

How does it help to keep labelling people as genocidal maniacs when you know damn well they really aren't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 17, 2017, 12:51:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on August 17, 2017, 12:44:36 AM
Well since it's perfectly acceptable now to "punch a nazi in the face" or get them fired from their jobs it would be good to have a clear definition of what a nazi is. Also who gets to decide? I'm fairly confident that we've all been called nazi by someone on the net in a political discussion.

So has David Cameron, so has John McCain, Mitt Romney, George Bush, there's even republicans who write books on how Democrats are the real nazis and racists. So how does this work?

How does it help to keep labelling people as genocidal maniacs when you know damn well they really aren't.
I think it's fair to assume that anybody who flies a Nazi flag is a Nazi.

I think it's fair to assume that anybody who goes around chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil" and carries flaming torches while doing so is a Nazi.

I think it's fair to assume that anybody who sticks around to participate in any way at a "demonstration" at which these flags are flying and these chants are chanted, has, at the very least, strong Nazi sympathies, which I'd say makes them a Nazi.

Feminists, on the other hand, are not Nazis.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on August 17, 2017, 07:38:37 AM
Yes obviously it's gone past a certain stage at that point but look at what I wrote earlier. This was a step by step process of escalation. These young men and women who ended up in Charlottesville probably got called nazi or demonised by someone for having very centrist views or disagreed on abortion or for simply being a white person by some talking head on CNN.

So this is why reasoned rational debate has to happen from the beginning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 17, 2017, 07:41:25 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 17, 2017, 12:51:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on August 17, 2017, 12:44:36 AM
Well since it's perfectly acceptable now to "punch a nazi in the face" or get them fired from their jobs it would be good to have a clear definition of what a nazi is. Also who gets to decide? I'm fairly confident that we've all been called nazi by someone on the net in a political discussion.

So has David Cameron, so has John McCain, Mitt Romney, George Bush, there's even republicans who write books on how Democrats are the real nazis and racists. So how does this work?

How does it help to keep labelling people as genocidal maniacs when you know damn well they really aren't.
I think it's fair to assume that anybody who flies a Nazi flag is a Nazi.

I think it's fair to assume that anybody who goes around chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil" and carries flaming torches while doing so is a Nazi.

I think it's fair to assume that anybody who sticks around to participate in any way at a "demonstration" at which these flags are flying and these chants are chanted, has, at the very least, strong Nazi sympathies, which I'd say makes them a Nazi.

Feminists, on the other hand, are not Nazis.
Any group that goes to a public gathering chanting blood and soil with automatic weapons that freak out the authorities potentially qualifies.

Nazism is all about grievances and Violence. 

If the people in 4 Chan have grievances they should address them via the usual channels.

I think they are being manipulated by the likes of Bannon. He wants to blow up western society .

One of the saddest videos on YouTube is the 1955 return of the German prisoners from the Soviet Union.  There were hundreds of thousands of them if not a million in 1945  . Only 10, 000 made it home. It was Adenauers most important achievement  Before he killed himself Hitler declared that the German people didnt deserve him. Nazis are c###s.

the Daily Stormer described Heather Heyer, the young woman killed by an alleged white supremacist driver in Charlottesville, as "a fat, childless 32-year-old s**t",
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CiKe on August 17, 2017, 07:59:35 AM
Interesting post juice but I don't think anyone starts flying and appropriating the swastika simply because someone called them a Nazi, if they don't at least have sympathies in that direction. As someone else said, it's not only paid up card carrying members.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 17, 2017, 08:03:25 AM
Robert B. Neller @GenRobertNeller

No place for racial hatred or extremism in @USMC. Our core values of Honor, Courage, and Commitment frame the way Marines live and act.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 17, 2017, 08:10:31 AM
Alt right has a big dose of antisemitism. Josh Marshall is Jewish.

Josh Marshall @joshtpm

On the subject of mockery, I believe it is a deeply moral stance. Mocking bad people is a way of depriving them of power, the power of ...

2/ fear and intimidation. Marching around with torches in the night is performative menace. That's the point. One can fight that in many

3/ ways but not accepting it on its own terms, valorizing it through condemnation, as it were, is a key, necessary way. Does

4/ We'll, we can judge that in many ways. In directly and immediately affecting the targets, sometimes yes and sometimes no. But I believe..

Josh Marshall @joshtpm·Aug 12

5/ it always buoys those who do the mocking, gives them moral nourishment and strength. We shld never cower. And losing the ability

6/ laugh at the laughable can sometimes amount to cowering. Don't cower. Don't give anyone power or strength who does not deserve it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on August 17, 2017, 09:06:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 17, 2017, 12:51:02 AM
Quote from: thejuice on August 17, 2017, 12:44:36 AM
Well since it's perfectly acceptable now to "punch a nazi in the face" or get them fired from their jobs it would be good to have a clear definition of what a nazi is. Also who gets to decide? I'm fairly confident that we've all been called nazi by someone on the net in a political discussion.

So has David Cameron, so has John McCain, Mitt Romney, George Bush, there's even republicans who write books on how Democrats are the real nazis and racists. So how does this work?

How does it help to keep labelling people as genocidal maniacs when you know damn well they really aren't.
I think it's fair to assume that anybody who flies a Nazi flag is a Nazi.

I think it's fair to assume that anybody who goes around chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil" and carries flaming torches while doing so is a Nazi.

I think it's fair to assume that anybody who sticks around to participate in any way at a "demonstration" at which these flags are flying and these chants are chanted, has, at the very least, strong Nazi sympathies, which I'd say makes them a Nazi.

Feminists, on the other hand, are not Nazis.

You would also assume that Cork people flying confederate flags at matches are racists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on August 17, 2017, 09:12:59 AM
Bernhard Langer's German so there's your Nazi proof
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on August 17, 2017, 09:39:58 AM
Seafoid. On the previous page you called James Damore the former senior engineer at google a nazi and then I would say unfairly mischaracterised the findings in the memo he wrote. Have you read his memo? Have you checked the research that it cites? He wrote the memo in response to a request for ideas following a particular meeting on the subject at hand.

Do you think a senior google engineer would just write an unsubstantiated career threatening rant for the fun of it?

In case you haven't read it here it is, in what I hope is an unedited version.

https://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/355823379/Google-s-Ideological-Echo-Chamber#

Of course both sides picked it up and ran with it to their own camp. So even if it turns out that the research he cited ends up flawed but has been peer reviewed and maybe disputed but not disproven why should he be attacked personally.

Argue the facts and the science, ease off on the ad hominem. But you should recognise what you are feeding into when you throw around that label recklessly. Remember you are reducing someone to the level of a genocidal monstrosity with that word. Perhaps that's why websites like dailystormer exist nowadays.

I don't have time to get into a long discussion about this here and I think I've said enough. I'll leave you with Sam Harris' latest podcast (that's right, there are people out there who think Sam Harris is a Nazi). It's quite instructive on the issues at hand and will bring far better insight to it than I ever could.

https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/92-the-limits-of-persuasion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 17, 2017, 09:44:11 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 17, 2017, 07:41:25 AM

Nazism is all about grievances and Violence. 

If the people in 4 Chan have grievances they should address them via the usual channels.


Everybody has grievances.

Not all grievances are legitimate.

The "grievances" of the people who populate the likes of 4Chan tend to be entirely spurious and frivolous ones.

Much of "conservative" politics these days is centred around a sort of bizarre white male identity politics.

In the US the motivating factors for "grievance" have become very similar to the motivating factors for "grievances" held by Northern Unionists and the Afrikaaners - primarily the sense of unease at losing a previously held position of dominance and unease at the rise of people who were previously trampled on.

Modern US "conservatism" is largely centred around the idea of the superiority and primacy of the white man. This idea is largely unspoken but it is undeniable. It varies on a spectrum from people who are silently uneasy at the prospect of whites becoming a minority within 30 years to outright KKK Nazis.

The Republican party and US conservatism, particularly media, has encouraged and nurtured this sense of imagined grievance for decades.

The reaction to Obama's presidency brought these imagined grievances into full view and Trump has legitimised them.

Given the right conditions, nothing motivates support like hatred of "the other". The Republicans spent 50 years working towards creating a situation where these conditions can exist. They have succeeded.

Grievances based on the white man losing his previously held position of dominance are not legitimate ones.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on August 17, 2017, 11:28:43 AM
Sometime Fake News can be good for Corporations.  Everyone hates taking mwedicine.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/08/16/eli-lilly-canada-patents-zyprexa-strattera/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: haranguerer on August 17, 2017, 11:56:24 AM
Quote from: thejuice on August 17, 2017, 09:39:58 AM
Seafoid. On the previous page you called James Damore the former senior engineer at google a nazi and then I would say unfairly mischaracterised the findings in the memo he wrote. Have you read his memo? Have you checked the research that it cites? He wrote the memo in response to a request for ideas following a particular meeting on the subject at hand.

Do you think a senior google engineer would just write an unsubstantiated career threatening rant for the fun of it?

In case you haven't read it here it is, in what I hope is an unedited version.

https://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/355823379/Google-s-Ideological-Echo-Chamber#

Of course both sides picked it up and ran with it to their own camp. So even if it turns out that the research he cited ends up flawed but has been peer reviewed and maybe disputed but not disproven why should he be attacked personally.

Argue the facts and the science, ease off on the ad hominem. But you should recognise what you are feeding into when you throw around that label recklessly. Remember you are reducing someone to the level of a genocidal monstrosity with that word. Perhaps that's why websites like dailystormer exist nowadays.

I don't have time to get into a long discussion about this here and I think I've said enough. I'll leave you with Sam Harris' latest podcast (that's right, there are people out there who think Sam Harris is a Nazi). It's quite instructive on the issues at hand and will bring far better insight to it than I ever could.

https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/92-the-limits-of-persuasion

thejuice speaks sense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2017, 12:39:56 PM
Delighted to see that The NY Times is upholding its own high standards

http://www.dailywire.com/news/19673/ny-times-reporter-admits-antifa-protesters-james-barrett
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 17, 2017, 01:27:02 PM
Quote from: thejuice on August 17, 2017, 09:39:58 AM
Seafoid. On the previous page you called James Damore the former senior engineer at google a nazi and then I would say unfairly mischaracterised the findings in the memo he wrote. Have you read his memo? Have you checked the research that it cites? He wrote the memo in response to a request for ideas following a particular meeting on the subject at hand.

Do you think a senior google engineer would just write an unsubstantiated career threatening rant for the fun of it?

In case you haven't read it here it is, in what I hope is an unedited version.

https://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/355823379/Google-s-Ideological-Echo-Chamber#

Of course both sides picked it up and ran with it to their own camp. So even if it turns out that the research he cited ends up flawed but has been peer reviewed and maybe disputed but not disproven why should he be attacked personally.

Argue the facts and the science, ease off on the ad hominem. But you should recognise what you are feeding into when you throw around that label recklessly. Remember you are reducing someone to the level of a genocidal monstrosity with that word. Perhaps that's why websites like dailystormer exist nowadays.

I don't have time to get into a long discussion about this here and I think I've said enough. I'll leave you with Sam Harris' latest podcast (that's right, there are people out there who think Sam Harris is a Nazi). It's quite instructive on the issues at hand and will bring far better insight to it than I ever could.

https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/92-the-limits-of-persuasion
Juice maybe he is not  a Nazi but he is definitely a provocateur. The company couldnt deal with it. The alt right lampoon and attack  women, minorities, Lgbt and whatever letters.
Yiannopolis followed up by publicising the names of people inside the company who were attacked on social media.  Who is paying for all of this and what is the goal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2017, 05:53:29 PM
OMG Bannon's out!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 18, 2017, 06:24:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2017, 05:53:29 PM
OMG Bannon's out!

This may not be such a great thing...

"From Afghanistan and North Korea to Syria and Venezuela, Mr. Bannon, the president's chief strategist, has argued against making military threats or deploying American troops into foreign conflicts."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/us/politics/steve-bannon-nationalism-trump.html?action=click&contentCollection=politics&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/us/politics/steve-bannon-nationalism-trump.html?action=click&contentCollection=politics&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2017, 06:27:33 PM
I guess Trump was, with hindsight, not too happy with the "double-down on the "good people" among the white supremacist marchers" advice!  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 19, 2017, 02:31:47 AM
It's all going in the right direction!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 19, 2017, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.

Lets get rid of all tge liberal arseholes ripping up and tearing down statues that funnily enough have stood for a century orvmore and were no problem when BO was president  it would be nice to be able to deal with isis, that lunatic in north korea and as always the economy, time for the cops to arrest these ignorant scumbags that tear down monuments and cause disturbances on the streets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 19, 2017, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.
apparently Miller is Jewish. WTF
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 19, 2017, 09:39:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 19, 2017, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.
apparently Miller is Jewish. WTF

Why yes he is  :) But hey, you liberals keep throwing out slurs on the names of people who dont deserve it, great politiking altogether.

The democrats are like the taliban in that they love destroying themselves a nations historical monuments, and freedom of speech is all good as long as it is our kind of speech,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: StGallsGAA on August 19, 2017, 10:18:22 PM
Inspirational stuff from Arnie!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/19/watch-arnold-schwarzenegger-has-friendly-advice-donald-trump/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2017, 10:44:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 19, 2017, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.
apparently Miller is Jewish. WTF
The alt-reality crowd are very big on the concept of branding any white person who doesn't conform to their batshit crazy worldview as a "self-hating white person".

They also like to trot out the "self-hating Jew" line about liberal Jews in Israel who oppose the illegal colonial expansion into Palestinian territory.

Yet here is a genuine example of a self-hating Jew. One can come to no other conclusion about a man who not only stands idly by while Trump incites the alt-reality anti-semites and Nazis, but is at the very heart of the strategy of turning such anti-semites and Nazis into "the base" of Trump's support.

Don't expect to see him called out as such by alt-reality Trumpists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 20, 2017, 10:59:24 AM
Quote from: stew on August 19, 2017, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.

Lets get rid of all tge liberal arseholes ripping up and tearing down statues that funnily enough have stood for a century orvmore and were no problem when BO was president  it would be nice to be able to deal with isis, that lunatic in north korea and as always the economy, time for the cops to arrest these ignorant scumbags that tear down monuments and cause disturbances on the streets.
Why don't you set up a go fund me page to replace Nelsons pillar in Dublin, Stew.? It stood for over a hundred years before it was blown up by Taliban liberals.

Big political changes happen when economic systems collapse. Ireland went into a state of chaos after an economic crash in the 1890s. The same processes are at work now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 20, 2017, 11:49:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 20, 2017, 10:59:24 AM
Quote from: stew on August 19, 2017, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.

Lets get rid of all tge liberal arseholes ripping up and tearing down statues that funnily enough have stood for a century orvmore and were no problem when BO was president  it would be nice to be able to deal with isis, that lunatic in north korea and as always the economy, time for the cops to arrest these ignorant scumbags that tear down monuments and cause disturbances on the streets.
Why don't you set up a go fund me page to replace Nelsons pillar in Dublin, Stew.? It stood for over a hundred years before it was blown up by Taliban liberals.

Big political changes happen when economic systems collapse. Ireland went into a state of chaos after an economic crash in the 1890s. The same processes are at work now.

Are you really ok with people ripping down statues that have stood for decades without, I might add, lawfully doing so?

I am at a loss as to which economic collapse you are referring to? maybe you can enlighten me?

For the record the next gaggle of scumbags that tear down monuments should be arrested, charged and when proven guilty do time, the snowflakes are all about acting tough in groups but when faced with fines, jail time and possible loss of job they will back the f**k off, they have as much intestinal fortitude as the loyalist hunger strikers back in the day, i.e. None.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 20, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
A black leader calls for Trump to be assassinated and crickets from all but one of her liberal peers, not reported on any media forum other than of course Fox news, this is disgusting in the extreme, I have no time for Trump but don't want him killed and for people in positions of power to come out and state this publically is at best grandstanding, at worst criminal, I hope the bitch does time.

Why are non liberals being labelled racists? are the libs so devoid of  capable thought that all they can do is scream racism at every farts turn?

The republicans are imploding because they hate Trump as much as the left does, they do not want back him or seen to be backing him because they will be branded racists ad they, a lot of them would love to see him impeached and replaced, they might well get a tanking in 2018 and if they do they will have earned it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 20, 2017, 03:24:13 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 11:49:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 20, 2017, 10:59:24 AM
Quote from: stew on August 19, 2017, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.

Lets get rid of all tge liberal arseholes ripping up and tearing down statues that funnily enough have stood for a century orvmore and were no problem when BO was president  it would be nice to be able to deal with isis, that lunatic in north korea and as always the economy, time for the cops to arrest these ignorant scumbags that tear down monuments and cause disturbances on the streets.
Why don't you set up a go fund me page to replace Nelsons pillar in Dublin, Stew.? It stood for over a hundred years before it was blown up by Taliban liberals.

Big political changes happen when economic systems collapse. Ireland went into a state of chaos after an economic crash in the 1890s. The same processes are at work now.

Are you really ok with people ripping down statues that have stood for decades without, I might add, lawfully doing so?

I am at a loss as to which economic collapse you are referring to? maybe you can enlighten me?

For the record the next gaggle of scumbags that tear down monuments should be arrested, charged and when proven guilty do time, the snowflakes are all about acting tough in groups but when faced with fines, jail time and possible loss of job they will back the f**k off, they have as much intestinal fortitude as the loyalist hunger strikers back in the day, i.e. None.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Depression

Stew, politics everywhere are totally polarised because 1% of people own more than half of things. I think it is pointless defending this or that in such a situation given the overall situation although I would draw the line at fascism.  The answer is a new economic system where people are respected. Until this happens there will be chaos.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 20, 2017, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 20, 2017, 03:24:13 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 11:49:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 20, 2017, 10:59:24 AM
Quote from: stew on August 19, 2017, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.

Lets get rid of all tge liberal arseholes ripping up and tearing down statues that funnily enough have stood for a century orvmore and were no problem when BO was president  it would be nice to be able to deal with isis, that lunatic in north korea and as always the economy, time for the cops to arrest these ignorant scumbags that tear down monuments and cause disturbances on the streets.
Why don't you set up a go fund me page to replace Nelsons pillar in Dublin, Stew.? It stood for over a hundred years before it was blown up by Taliban liberals.

Big political changes happen when economic systems collapse. Ireland went into a state of chaos after an economic crash in the 1890s. The same processes are at work now.

Are you really ok with people ripping down statues that have stood for decades without, I might add, lawfully doing so?

I am at a loss as to which economic collapse you are referring to? maybe you can enlighten me?

For the record the next gaggle of scumbags that tear down monuments should be arrested, charged and when proven guilty do time, the snowflakes are all about acting tough in groups but when faced with fines, jail time and possible loss of job they will back the f**k off, they have as much intestinal fortitude as the loyalist hunger strikers back in the day, i.e. None.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Depression

Stew, politics everywhere are totally polarised because 1% of people own more than half of things. I think it is pointless defending this or that in such a situation given the overall situation although I would draw the line at fascism.  The answer is a new economic system where people are respected. Until this happens there will be chaos.

There is no defending the far left or far right but to me it is cowardly and disgusting to be calling people who don't agree with your political points of view fascists, the left have ramped up the hatred between the two parties and therin lies the problem, people have one of two parties to vote for and right now both are complete and utter shite, neither is fitto govern but somebody has to.

Obama has a lot to answer for, I call him the great enabler for a reason, he enabled liberals to be accountable for nothing, for the police to be attacked, for the rule of law to be ignored/abused, he was an awful President and now you have another tube running things, the two party system to me needs to change, it would be great to have a couple of options both left and right that would be able to work together and respect each other for the good of the people they represent, the sad thing is Pelosi is determined to drag the Libs to the far left and the tea party f**kers/Trump fringe supporters want to drag te country to the far right, neither are viable options and both are awful choices for the electorate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on August 20, 2017, 05:00:22 PM
QuoteA black leader calls for Trump to be assassinated

Who is this leader?  The Black Phanters are urging kill all whites but can't find the call for assination.  Just what we need a new Martyr.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
A black leader calls for Trump to be assassinated and crickets from all but one of her liberal peers, not reported on any media forum other than of course Fox news, this is disgusting in the extreme, I have no time for Trump but don't want him killed and for people in positions of power to come out and state this publically is at best grandstanding, at worst criminal, I hope the bitch does time.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/missouri-state-senator-donald-trump/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/08/17/us/ap-us-missouri-legislator-trump-threat.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/18/i-hope-trump-is-assassinated-a-missouri-lawmakers-facebook-comment-leads-to-calls-for-her-resignation/?utm_term=.b088e57f63d7

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pressure-mounts-on-lawmaker-who-posted-trump-assassination-comment/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/missouri-lawmaker-posts-deletes-trump-assassination-comment-49276964

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 08:32:22 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 04:33:57 PM

There is no defending the far left or far right but to me it is cowardly and disgusting to be calling people who don't agree with your political points of view fascists, the left have ramped up the hatred between the two parties and therin lies the problem, people have one of two parties to vote for and right now both are complete and utter shite, neither is fitto govern but somebody has to.
False equivalence, yawn.

Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 04:33:57 PM
Obama has a lot to answer for, I call him the great enabler for a reason, he enabled liberals to be accountable for nothing, for the police to be attacked, for the rule of law to be ignored/abused, he was an awful President
Yawn, yes of course it was Obama's fault that millions of nutters whose worldview is based on white supremacy couldn't accept a black man as president.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 20, 2017, 09:17:44 PM
Obama wasted 8 years. He did nothing about Wall St. He had a half arsed healthcare reform that had no lid on costs. Yes the GOP was atrocious but Obama was elected on a mandate for change and he surrendered to money. There are many people responsible for the forthcoming economic collapse of the US.  Obama is one. The Democratic Party is hopelessly corrupt. So are the Irish parties BTW.  Neoliberalism has insinuated itself into everything .

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 20, 2017, 10:06:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 08:32:22 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 04:33:57 PM

There is no defending the far left or far right but to me it is cowardly and disgusting to be calling people who don't agree with your political points of view fascists, the left have ramped up the hatred between the two parties and therin lies the problem, people have one of two parties to vote for and right now both are complete and utter shite, neither is fitto govern but somebody has to.
False equivalence, yawn.

Go to bed Siddles, you seem tired kid.

Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 04:33:57 PM
Obama has a lot to answer for, I call him the great enabler for a reason, he enabled liberals to be accountable for nothing, for the police to be attacked, for the rule of law to be ignored/abused, he was an awful President
Yawn, yes of course it was Obama's fault that millions of nutters whose worldview is based on white supremacy couldn't accept a black man as president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 20, 2017, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 19, 2017, 10:44:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 19, 2017, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.
apparently Miller is Jewish. WTF
The alt-reality crowd are very big on the concept of branding any white person who doesn't conform to their batshit crazy worldview as a "self-hating white person".

They also like to trot out the "self-hating Jew" line about liberal Jews in Israel who oppose the illegal colonial expansion into Palestinian territory.

Yet here is a genuine example of a self-hating Jew. One can come to no other conclusion about a man who not only stands idly by while Trump incites the alt-reality anti-semites and Nazis, but is at the very heart of the strategy of turning such anti-semites and Nazis into "the base" of Trump's support.

Don't expect to see him called out as such by alt-reality Trumpists.

Alt reality, two words you are unfit to say and destined never to understand, who the hell do you think you are? Freud?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 19, 2017, 10:44:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 19, 2017, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 18, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
Wish there were a buy-one-get-two-free option.  Let's get rid of two other fascists, Miller and Gorka, as a precursor to the glorious ultimate exodus.
apparently Miller is Jewish. WTF
The alt-reality crowd are very big on the concept of branding any white person who doesn't conform to their batshit crazy worldview as a "self-hating white person".

They also like to trot out the "self-hating Jew" line about liberal Jews in Israel who oppose the illegal colonial expansion into Palestinian territory.

Yet here is a genuine example of a self-hating Jew. One can come to no other conclusion about a man who not only stands idly by while Trump incites the alt-reality anti-semites and Nazis, but is at the very heart of the strategy of turning such anti-semites and Nazis into "the base" of Trump's support.

Don't expect to see him called out as such by alt-reality Trumpists.

Alt reality, two words you are unfit to say and destined never to understand, who the hell do you think you are? Freud?
Well, knowing you, you probably think I'm Lukas Podolski trafficking African migrants across the Mediterranean on a jetski.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 21, 2017, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
A black leader calls for Trump to be assassinated and crickets from all but one of her liberal peers, not reported on any media forum other than of course Fox news, this is disgusting in the extreme, I have no time for Trump but don't want him killed and for people in positions of power to come out and state this publically is at best grandstanding, at worst criminal, I hope the bitch does time.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/missouri-state-senator-donald-trump/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/08/17/us/ap-us-missouri-legislator-trump-threat.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/18/i-hope-trump-is-assassinated-a-missouri-lawmakers-facebook-comment-leads-to-calls-for-her-resignation/?utm_term=.b088e57f63d7

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pressure-mounts-on-lawmaker-who-posted-trump-assassination-comment/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/missouri-lawmaker-posts-deletes-trump-assassination-comment-49276964

Took them long enough!

Your media is a disgrace Hurl, a bit like your leader!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 21, 2017, 12:13:55 AM
Justin Trudeau?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2017, 03:47:48 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
A black leader calls for Trump to be assassinated and crickets from all but one of her liberal peers, not reported on any media forum other than of course Fox news, this is disgusting in the extreme, I have no time for Trump but don't want him killed and for people in positions of power to come out and state this publically is at best grandstanding, at worst criminal, I hope the bitch does time.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/missouri-state-senator-donald-trump/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/08/17/us/ap-us-missouri-legislator-trump-threat.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/18/i-hope-trump-is-assassinated-a-missouri-lawmakers-facebook-comment-leads-to-calls-for-her-resignation/?utm_term=.b088e57f63d7

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pressure-mounts-on-lawmaker-who-posted-trump-assassination-comment/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/missouri-lawmaker-posts-deletes-trump-assassination-comment-49276964

Took them long enough!

Your media is a disgrace Hurl, a bit like your leader!

The incident happened on Thursday the 17th

NYT article - dated 17th
ABC article - dated 17th
CNN article - dated 17th, updated on 18th
CBS article - dated 18th
Wash Post - dated 18th

My media? Didn't know I had any.

And I have the same leader as you stew - that old ghoul at 10 Downing Street.

Again I ask ..............

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PMDo you ever get tired of being wrong?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 21, 2017, 04:07:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2017, 03:47:48 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
A black leader calls for Trump to be assassinated and crickets from all but one of her liberal peers, not reported on any media forum other than of course Fox news, this is disgusting in the extreme, I have no time for Trump but don't want him killed and for people in positions of power to come out and state this publically is at best grandstanding, at worst criminal, I hope the bitch does time.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/missouri-state-senator-donald-trump/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/08/17/us/ap-us-missouri-legislator-trump-threat.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/18/i-hope-trump-is-assassinated-a-missouri-lawmakers-facebook-comment-leads-to-calls-for-her-resignation/?utm_term=.b088e57f63d7

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pressure-mounts-on-lawmaker-who-posted-trump-assassination-comment/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/missouri-lawmaker-posts-deletes-trump-assassination-comment-49276964

Took them long enough!

Your media is a disgrace Hurl, a bit like your leader!

The incident happened on Thursday the 17th

NYT article - dated 17th
ABC article - dated 17th
CNN article - dated 17th, updated on 18th
CBS article - dated 18th
Wash Post - dated 18th

My media? Didn't know I had any.

And I have the same leader as you stew - that old ghoul at 10 Downing Street.

Again I ask ..............

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PMDo you ever get tired of being wrong?

f**k of Hurl, May is not now, nor ever will be my leader! lets get that straight first and foremost, I am not surprised you feel she is your leader but don't ever tar me with the same brush as you!

Secondly, I was referring to the fact that when checking the TV channels about the racist bitch that wanted Trump dead only Fox were rolling with it, that is not the way I worded it but that is what I meant, I was obviously wrong and will be again, you however know nothing about that, you have never been wrong you smug wee bastard! :)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 21, 2017, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: heganboy on August 21, 2017, 12:13:55 AM
Justin Trudeau?

Correct, he is a good fit for Hurl.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
Lose an argument - resort to namecalling  :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 21, 2017, 04:27:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
Lose an argument - resort to namecalling  :-X

I was wrong, what do you want? Blood?????

I never knew you had a conservative side Hurl, tally ho and all that. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thebigfella on August 21, 2017, 04:32:02 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 04:07:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2017, 03:47:48 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
A black leader calls for Trump to be assassinated and crickets from all but one of her liberal peers, not reported on any media forum other than of course Fox news, this is disgusting in the extreme, I have no time for Trump but don't want him killed and for people in positions of power to come out and state this publically is at best grandstanding, at worst criminal, I hope the bitch does time.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/missouri-state-senator-donald-trump/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/08/17/us/ap-us-missouri-legislator-trump-threat.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/18/i-hope-trump-is-assassinated-a-missouri-lawmakers-facebook-comment-leads-to-calls-for-her-resignation/?utm_term=.b088e57f63d7

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pressure-mounts-on-lawmaker-who-posted-trump-assassination-comment/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/missouri-lawmaker-posts-deletes-trump-assassination-comment-49276964

Took them long enough!

Your media is a disgrace Hurl, a bit like your leader!

The incident happened on Thursday the 17th

NYT article - dated 17th
ABC article - dated 17th
CNN article - dated 17th, updated on 18th
CBS article - dated 18th
Wash Post - dated 18th

My media? Didn't know I had any.

And I have the same leader as you stew - that old ghoul at 10 Downing Street.

Again I ask ..............

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PMDo you ever get tired of being wrong?

f**k of Hurl, May is not now, nor ever will be my leader! lets get that straight first and foremost, I am not surprised you feel she is your leader but don't ever tar me with the same brush as you!

Secondly, I was referring to the fact that when checking the TV channels about the racist bitch that wanted Trump dead only Fox were rolling with it, that is not the way I worded it but that is what I meant, I was obviously wrong and will be again, you however know nothing about that, you have never been wrong you smug wee b**tard! :)

Are you not living in Armagh? I would say there is 1 billion reasons why she is the boss of you Stew  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 21, 2017, 07:40:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2017, 03:47:48 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
A black leader calls for Trump to be assassinated and crickets from all but one of her liberal peers, not reported on any media forum other than of course Fox news, this is disgusting in the extreme, I have no time for Trump but don't want him killed and for people in positions of power to come out and state this publically is at best grandstanding, at worst criminal, I hope the bitch does time.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/missouri-state-senator-donald-trump/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/08/17/us/ap-us-missouri-legislator-trump-threat.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/18/i-hope-trump-is-assassinated-a-missouri-lawmakers-facebook-comment-leads-to-calls-for-her-resignation/?utm_term=.b088e57f63d7

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pressure-mounts-on-lawmaker-who-posted-trump-assassination-comment/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/missouri-lawmaker-posts-deletes-trump-assassination-comment-49276964

Took them long enough!

Your media is a disgrace Hurl, a bit like your leader!

The incident happened on Thursday the 17th

NYT article - dated 17th
ABC article - dated 17th
CNN article - dated 17th, updated on 18th
CBS article - dated 18th
Wash Post - dated 18th

My media? Didn't know I had any.

And I have the same leader as you stew - that old ghoul at 10 Downing Street.

Again I ask ..............

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PMDo you ever get tired of being wrong?

Quality!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2017, 04:32:02 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 04:07:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2017, 03:47:48 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PM
Quote from: stew on August 20, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
A black leader calls for Trump to be assassinated and crickets from all but one of her liberal peers, not reported on any media forum other than of course Fox news, this is disgusting in the extreme, I have no time for Trump but don't want him killed and for people in positions of power to come out and state this publically is at best grandstanding, at worst criminal, I hope the bitch does time.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/missouri-state-senator-donald-trump/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/08/17/us/ap-us-missouri-legislator-trump-threat.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/18/i-hope-trump-is-assassinated-a-missouri-lawmakers-facebook-comment-leads-to-calls-for-her-resignation/?utm_term=.b088e57f63d7

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pressure-mounts-on-lawmaker-who-posted-trump-assassination-comment/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/missouri-lawmaker-posts-deletes-trump-assassination-comment-49276964

Took them long enough!

Your media is a disgrace Hurl, a bit like your leader!

The incident happened on Thursday the 17th

NYT article - dated 17th
ABC article - dated 17th
CNN article - dated 17th, updated on 18th
CBS article - dated 18th
Wash Post - dated 18th

My media? Didn't know I had any.

And I have the same leader as you stew - that old ghoul at 10 Downing Street.

Again I ask ..............

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2017, 06:06:29 PMDo you ever get tired of being wrong?

f**k of Hurl, May is not now, nor ever will be my leader! lets get that straight first and foremost, I am not surprised you feel she is your leader but don't ever tar me with the same brush as you!

Secondly, I was referring to the fact that when checking the TV channels about the racist bitch that wanted Trump dead only Fox were rolling with it, that is not the way I worded it but that is what I meant, I was obviously wrong and will be again, you however know nothing about that, you have never been wrong you smug wee b**tard! :)

Are you not living in Armagh? I would say there is 1 billion reasons why she is the boss of you Stew  ;)
'
I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM

I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Theresa May would be much, much too far to the left for you to ever vote for her, mate.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 21, 2017, 09:59:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM

I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Theresa May would be much, much too far to the left for you to ever vote for her, mate.  ;D

I would vote labour if I lived in England/Scotland Siddles, I despise the conservative party.

I am not your mate kid.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 09:59:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM

I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Theresa May would be much, much too far to the left for you to ever vote for her, mate.  ;D

I would vote labour if I lived in England/Scotland Siddles, I despise the conservative party.

I am not your mate kid.  ::)
The guy who has an obsessive hatred of the left saying he'd vote for Labour.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, mercy.

You're more Tory than the Tories themselves.

Don't tell me what to call you, please, mate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 21, 2017, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 09:59:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM

I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Theresa May would be much, much too far to the left for you to ever vote for her, mate.  ;D

I would vote labour if I lived in England/Scotland Siddles, I despise the conservative party.

I am not your mate kid.  ::)
The guy who has an obsessive hatred of the left saying he'd vote for Labour.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, mercy.

You're more Tory than the Tories themselves.

Don't tell me what to call you, please, mate.

I have lived 22 years of my life stateside, I went to the states a democrat and left despising them because they are the most corrupt gaggle of f**kers I ever experienced in my life. America is 3,000 miles away from Ireland siddles and the parties are vastly different from one another, I am a huge fan of old labour and Tony Benn and Neil Kinnock in particular.

Its not hard Sidley, I am a socialist here in the north but in the states were socialism was not an option until the boul Bernie showed up, I preferred anybody but the clintonites and corrupt arseholes than run the democrats.

Out of the three final candidates for president I would have voted for Saunders and I am not your mate kid! K  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 09:59:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM

I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Theresa May would be much, much too far to the left for you to ever vote for her, mate.  ;D

I would vote labour if I lived in England/Scotland Siddles, I despise the conservative party.

I am not your mate kid.  ::)
The guy who has an obsessive hatred of the left saying he'd vote for Labour.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, mercy.

You're more Tory than the Tories themselves.

Don't tell me what to call you, please, mate.

I have lived 22 years of my life stateside, I went to the states a democrat and left despising them because they are the most corrupt gaggle of f**kers I ever experienced in my life. America is 3,000 miles away from Ireland siddles and the parties are vastly different from one another, I am a huge fan of old labour and Tony Benn and Neil Kinnock in particular.

Its not hard Sidley, I am a socialist here in the north but in the states were socialism was not an option until the boul Bernie showed up, I preferred anybody but the clintonites and corrupt arseholes than run the democrats.

Out of the three final candidates for president I would have voted for Saunders and I am not your mate kid! K  ;)

Sanders wasn't in the final three candidates for president, mate.

It's not generally Labour policy to defend the use of flags which represent racism and slavery, like you do.

Perhaps this a different Labour party you're thinking of?

A New New Labour, perhaps?

Strange that you like Neil Kinnock and Tony Benn given that they so bitterly opposed each other.

Tony Benn wasn't very big on racist symbolism, by the way.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 22, 2017, 01:11:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 12:46:01 AM
Sanders wasn't in the final three candidates for president, mate.

What?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 22, 2017, 09:00:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 09:59:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM

I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Theresa May would be much, much too far to the left for you to ever vote for her, mate.  ;D

I would vote labour if I lived in England/Scotland Siddles, I despise the conservative party.

I am not your mate kid.  ::)
The guy who has an obsessive hatred of the left saying he'd vote for Labour.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, mercy.

You're more Tory than the Tories themselves.

Don't tell me what to call you, please, mate.

I have lived 22 years of my life stateside, I went to the states a democrat and left despising them because they are the most corrupt gaggle of f**kers I ever experienced in my life. America is 3,000 miles away from Ireland siddles and the parties are vastly different from one another, I am a huge fan of old labour and Tony Benn and Neil Kinnock in particular.

Its not hard Sidley, I am a socialist here in the north but in the states were socialism was not an option until the boul Bernie showed up, I preferred anybody but the clintonites and corrupt arseholes than run the democrats.

Out of the three final candidates for president I would have voted for Saunders and I am not your mate kid! K  ;)

Sanders wasn't in the final three candidates for president, mate.

It's not generally Labour policy to defend the use of flags which represent racism and slavery, like you do.

Perhaps this a different Labour party you're thinking of?

A New New Labour, perhaps?

Strange that you like Neil Kinnock and Tony Benn given that they so bitterly opposed each other.

Tony Benn wasn't very big on racist symbolism, by the way.

Not strange at all, both men were die hard labour men who had differing visions for the party and were they wanted to take the UK both politically and economically.

Bernie was the last candidate to fall before Clinton got her ass handed to her in the election, what part of this don't you understand?

I don't defend flags! you don't know your arse from your elbow do you? I am sick of flags as I grew up in the north having them and their symbolism shoved down my throat, th only reason we are talking flags is because you, you fackin eejit, take great offence at a flag flown by Cork supporters at Gaelic football and hurling matches, simply because it is the rebel flag of the USA and Cork is known as the rebel county.

If you cannot see that your stance on this is hypocritical and flawed I cant help you and one more thing, why not be outrage about this a year ago when BO was President? I will tell you why, because your media hadn't thought tountil Trump got into office and told you that you should be outraged, there is no GAABoard racism here, all there is, is a silly man falsely feigning faux outrage about a piece of cloth of all things, the left is doomed with people like you running around loose because there are real issues out there that need addressing yet here we sit, mired down in shit talk about racist Corkonians! The mind boggles.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 04:29:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 22, 2017, 01:11:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 12:46:01 AM
Sanders wasn't in the final three candidates for president, mate.

What?
The final four candidates for president were Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 04:33:31 PM
Quote from: stew on August 22, 2017, 09:00:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 09:59:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM

I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Theresa May would be much, much too far to the left for you to ever vote for her, mate.  ;D

I would vote labour if I lived in England/Scotland Siddles, I despise the conservative party.

I am not your mate kid.  ::)
The guy who has an obsessive hatred of the left saying he'd vote for Labour.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, mercy.

You're more Tory than the Tories themselves.

Don't tell me what to call you, please, mate.

I have lived 22 years of my life stateside, I went to the states a democrat and left despising them because they are the most corrupt gaggle of f**kers I ever experienced in my life. America is 3,000 miles away from Ireland siddles and the parties are vastly different from one another, I am a huge fan of old labour and Tony Benn and Neil Kinnock in particular.

Its not hard Sidley, I am a socialist here in the north but in the states were socialism was not an option until the boul Bernie showed up, I preferred anybody but the clintonites and corrupt arseholes than run the democrats.

Out of the three final candidates for president I would have voted for Saunders and I am not your mate kid! K  ;)

Sanders wasn't in the final three candidates for president, mate.

It's not generally Labour policy to defend the use of flags which represent racism and slavery, like you do.

Perhaps this a different Labour party you're thinking of?

A New New Labour, perhaps?

Strange that you like Neil Kinnock and Tony Benn given that they so bitterly opposed each other.

Tony Benn wasn't very big on racist symbolism, by the way.

Not strange at all, both men were die hard labour men who had differing visions for the party and were they wanted to take the UK both politically and economically.

Bernie was the last candidate to fall before Clinton got her ass handed to her in the election, what part of this don't you understand?

I don't defend flags! you don't know your arse from your elbow do you? I am sick of flags as I grew up in the north having them and their symbolism shoved down my throat, th only reason we are talking flags is because you, you fackin eejit, take great offence at a flag flown by Cork supporters at Gaelic football and hurling matches, simply because it is the rebel flag of the USA and Cork is known as the rebel county.

If you cannot see that your stance on this is hypocritical and flawed I cant help you and one more thing, why not be outrage about this a year ago when BO was President? I will tell you why, because your media hadn't thought tountil Trump got into office and told you that you should be outraged, there is no GAABoard racism here, all there is, is a silly man falsely feigning faux outrage about a piece of cloth of all things, the left is doomed with people like you running around loose because there are real issues out there that need addressing yet here we sit, mired down in shit talk about racist Corkonians! The mind boggles.

You say you don't defend flags and then you launch into an outraged rant defending the confederate flag.

Yes indeed, the mind boggles, but then it always does when you post!








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 22, 2017, 06:57:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 04:33:31 PM
Quote from: stew on August 22, 2017, 09:00:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 09:59:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM

I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Theresa May would be much, much too far to the left for you to ever vote for her, mate.  ;D

I would vote labour if I lived in England/Scotland Siddles, I despise the conservative party.

I am not your mate kid.  ::)
The guy who has an obsessive hatred of the left saying he'd vote for Labour.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, mercy.

You're more Tory than the Tories themselves.

Don't tell me what to call you, please, mate.

I have lived 22 years of my life stateside, I went to the states a democrat and left despising them because they are the most corrupt gaggle of f**kers I ever experienced in my life. America is 3,000 miles away from Ireland siddles and the parties are vastly different from one another, I am a huge fan of old labour and Tony Benn and Neil Kinnock in particular.

Its not hard Sidley, I am a socialist here in the north but in the states were socialism was not an option until the boul Bernie showed up, I preferred anybody but the clintonites and corrupt arseholes than run the democrats.

Out of the three final candidates for president I would have voted for Saunders and I am not your mate kid! K  ;)

Sanders wasn't in the final three candidates for president, mate.

It's not generally Labour policy to defend the use of flags which represent racism and slavery, like you do.

Perhaps this a different Labour party you're thinking of?

A New New Labour, perhaps?

Strange that you like Neil Kinnock and Tony Benn given that they so bitterly opposed each other.

Tony Benn wasn't very big on racist symbolism, by the way.

Not strange at all, both men were die hard labour men who had differing visions for the party and were they wanted to take the UK both politically and economically.

Bernie was the last candidate to fall before Clinton got her ass handed to her in the election, what part of this don't you understand?

I don't defend flags! you don't know your arse from your elbow do you? I am sick of flags as I grew up in the north having them and their symbolism shoved down my throat, th only reason we are talking flags is because you, you fackin eejit, take great offence at a flag flown by Cork supporters at Gaelic football and hurling matches, simply because it is the rebel flag of the USA and Cork is known as the rebel county.

If you cannot see that your stance on this is hypocritical and flawed I cant help you and one more thing, why not be outrage about this a year ago when BO was President? I will tell you why, because your media hadn't thought tountil Trump got into office and told you that you should be outraged, there is no GAABoard racism here, all there is, is a silly man falsely feigning faux outrage about a piece of cloth of all things, the left is doomed with people like you running around loose because there are real issues out there that need addressing yet here we sit, mired down in shit talk about racist Corkonians! The mind boggles.

You say you don't defend flags and then you launch into an outraged rant defending the confederate flag.

Yes indeed, the mind boggles, but then it always does when you post!

I did not defend any post!

CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US ALL WHY YOU WERE NOT OUTRAGED ABOUT THE CONFEDERATE FLAG/ MONUMENT ISSUE EVER BEFORE? Please, I am all ears Siddles, especially in the Obama years, I await your explanation with baited breath brotha! )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on August 22, 2017, 08:57:58 PM
Stew in all fairness that is a terrible line of argument. Is one not allowed to show concern for soemthing once they have been made more aware of it?  Or is it always going to met with "why not bribg it up ealier"?  Ffs you could do that with any injustice.
I honestly didnt know or care that much about a confederate flag, but once it has been brought to my attention and simple but of research makes it fairly clear cut.  And say your right, that has been to do with left wing media banging on about it?  So what.  The flag stands for the same thing now as it did then.
If I went to match now and seen cork fans flying the rebel flag, i can honestly say it wouldnt bother me.  I wouldnt think they are racist.  Id just think they are dumb, young, or head buried in the sand or all 3.  That doesnt mean others shouldnt point out to them why they should stop flying it if they so wish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 12:58:21 AM
Quote from: stew on August 22, 2017, 06:57:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 04:33:31 PM
Quote from: stew on August 22, 2017, 09:00:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 09:59:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: stew on August 21, 2017, 08:09:29 PM

I am living in Armagh and that **** will never be the boss of me, I am sure there are lots of west brits down south that would fawn over here and love her to be the boss of them, , me, not so much
Theresa May would be much, much too far to the left for you to ever vote for her, mate.  ;D

I would vote labour if I lived in England/Scotland Siddles, I despise the conservative party.

I am not your mate kid.  ::)
The guy who has an obsessive hatred of the left saying he'd vote for Labour.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh, mercy.

You're more Tory than the Tories themselves.

Don't tell me what to call you, please, mate.

I have lived 22 years of my life stateside, I went to the states a democrat and left despising them because they are the most corrupt gaggle of f**kers I ever experienced in my life. America is 3,000 miles away from Ireland siddles and the parties are vastly different from one another, I am a huge fan of old labour and Tony Benn and Neil Kinnock in particular.

Its not hard Sidley, I am a socialist here in the north but in the states were socialism was not an option until the boul Bernie showed up, I preferred anybody but the clintonites and corrupt arseholes than run the democrats.

Out of the three final candidates for president I would have voted for Saunders and I am not your mate kid! K  ;)

Sanders wasn't in the final three candidates for president, mate.

It's not generally Labour policy to defend the use of flags which represent racism and slavery, like you do.

Perhaps this a different Labour party you're thinking of?

A New New Labour, perhaps?

Strange that you like Neil Kinnock and Tony Benn given that they so bitterly opposed each other.

Tony Benn wasn't very big on racist symbolism, by the way.

Not strange at all, both men were die hard labour men who had differing visions for the party and were they wanted to take the UK both politically and economically.

Bernie was the last candidate to fall before Clinton got her ass handed to her in the election, what part of this don't you understand?

I don't defend flags! you don't know your arse from your elbow do you? I am sick of flags as I grew up in the north having them and their symbolism shoved down my throat, th only reason we are talking flags is because you, you fackin eejit, take great offence at a flag flown by Cork supporters at Gaelic football and hurling matches, simply because it is the rebel flag of the USA and Cork is known as the rebel county.

If you cannot see that your stance on this is hypocritical and flawed I cant help you and one more thing, why not be outrage about this a year ago when BO was President? I will tell you why, because your media hadn't thought tountil Trump got into office and told you that you should be outraged, there is no GAABoard racism here, all there is, is a silly man falsely feigning faux outrage about a piece of cloth of all things, the left is doomed with people like you running around loose because there are real issues out there that need addressing yet here we sit, mired down in shit talk about racist Corkonians! The mind boggles.

You say you don't defend flags and then you launch into an outraged rant defending the confederate flag.

Yes indeed, the mind boggles, but then it always does when you post!

I did not defend any post!

CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US ALL WHY YOU WERE NOT OUTRAGED ABOUT THE CONFEDERATE FLAG/ MONUMENT ISSUE EVER BEFORE? Please, I am all ears Siddles, especially in the Obama years, I await your explanation with baited breath brotha! )

I've really touched a nerve with you over defence of a racist flag, haven't I?

The Cork supporters flying the confederate flag has been objected to for years, you dimwit, since at least 2001.

If you lived in Ireland you might know that, and you might know a bit more about the place than you currently do, which appears to be very little.

You do understand that society changes and things which were previously tolerated become no longer tolerated.

You do understand this, yes?

As I've asked a couple of other simpletons who have taken your line of argument, societies once considered the use of the n word to be acceptable.

That is clearly, and rightly, no longer the case.

Yet, to take your line of argument, the n word should be considered acceptable merely because it once was.

Do you think the n word is acceptable today?

And if not, were the people who wanted it made unacceptable correct?

Because, unless you address this, one would have to presume that you see these people as hypocrites.

Or that you believe that the n word should be acceptable today.

None of you dimwits have as yet addressed this point.

You don't because it blows your dimwitted bluster out of the water and exposes you for what you are - ie. people who don't take the issue of racism seriously.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 23, 2017, 01:47:54 AM
I just finished a book written around the period of time relating to the bank/wall st crash and bail outs, called The Divide by Matt Taibi. I might have though I knew it was bad but I had to multiply just how bad I thought it was  by 100. The book is exceptional and manages to explain complicated content in simple understandable english.
Matt had written some very good  articles published in Rolling Stone about the bankers bail out and this book deals with the scales of economic disparity/inequality and scales of justice (injustice) over this period  through the eyes of the people who experienced  the effects and those enjoyed the benefits.
About the only thing equal in this whole episode of history is the equal responsibility  and corruptions of both Democratic and Republican parties. Perhaps I'd reserve more disdain for Clinton's pro active role in the build up and Obama's role in the aftermath,  just for the added hypocrisy factor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2017, 04:10:49 AM
Some circus in Phoenix tonight
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 23, 2017, 05:38:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 04:29:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 22, 2017, 01:11:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 12:46:01 AM
Sanders wasn't in the final three candidates for president, mate.

What?
The final four candidates for president were Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL they couldn't muster five percent of the vote between them, Bernie got screwed by the Clinton biased liberals within your despicable party and Bernie was the only opposition Clinton faced, which is why she fucked him as he was hurting her chances, thanks eternally Bern )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 23, 2017, 05:50:53 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 22, 2017, 08:57:58 PM
Stew in all fairness that is a terrible line of argument. Is one not allowed to show concern for soemthing once they have been made more aware of it?  Or is it always going to met with "why not bribg it up ealier"?  Ffs you could do that with any injustice.
I honestly didnt know or care that much about a confederate flag, but once it has been brought to my attention and simple but of research makes it fairly clear cut.  And say your right, that has been to do with left wing media banging on about it?  So what.  The flag stands for the same thing now as it did then.
If I went to match now and seen cork fans flying the rebel flag, i can honestly say it wouldnt bother me.  I wouldnt think they are racist.  Id just think they are dumb, young, or head buried in the sand or all 3.  That doesnt mean others shouldnt point out to them why they should stop flying it if they so wish.

I never said they should not point anything out, I believe strongly in free speech, I also don't give to fiddlers about any flag because I have had a lifetime of dealing with them and their divisiveness, nor am I defending the confederate flag, I am simply stating that I am not going to castigate cork fans for using the flag at games of gaelic football or hurling because they are clearly not supporting slavery, they align with it because they are known as rebels and the flag is from a country 3,000 miles away. I also wanted to highlight the stupidity of sid because he went ballistic about an issue he never cared to comment before his liberal media masters told him to a few weeks ago,, then it was on baby!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 10:30:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 12:58:21 AM

I've really touched a nerve with you over your defence of a racist flag, haven't I?

The Cork supporters flying the confederate flag has been objected to for years, you dimwit, since at least 2001.

If you lived in Ireland you might know that, and you might know a bit more about the place than you currently do, which appears to be very little.

You do understand that society changes and things which were previously tolerated become no longer tolerated.

You do understand this, yes?

As I've asked a couple of other simpletons who have taken your line of argument, societies once considered the use of the n word to be acceptable.

That is clearly, and rightly, no longer the case.

Yet, to take your line of argument, the n word should be considered acceptable merely because it once was.

Do you think the n word is acceptable today?

And if not, were the people who wanted it made unacceptable correct?

Because, unless you address this, one would have to presume that you see these people as hypocrites.

Or that you believe that the n word should be acceptable today.

None of you dimwits have as yet addressed this point.

You don't because it blows your dimwitted bluster out of the water and exposes you for what you are - ie. people who don't take the issue of racism seriously.

Cat got your tongue, Stewy, mate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 23, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 10:30:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 12:58:21 AM

I've really touched a nerve with you over your defence of a racist flag, haven't I?

No Sid you did not, I did not defend any flag, I have no use for any flag, you are like a child thinking he is being clever here.

The Cork supporters flying the confederate flag has been objected to for years, you dimwit, since at least 2001.

Dimwit, hmmm, I asked you how long you objected to it and when did you post on here your issues with it, especially, since, um, you know, there have been issues with it since 2001.

If you lived in Ireland you might know that, and you might know a bit more about the place than you currently do, which appears to be very little.

I do live in Ireland Sid!

You do understand that society changes and things which were previously tolerated become no longer tolerated.

I do, I also have no problem with change, I have a real problem wit the likes of you and your antifa mates forcing it down my throat!

You do understand this, yes?

I understand I am dealing with a strange wee man here so I will be nice.

As I've asked a couple of other simpletons who have taken your line of argument, societies once considered the use of the n word to be acceptable.

Yes they did and black people still use it freely, it is repugnant and wrong.

That is clearly, and rightly, no longer the case.

Wrong, black society still uses it so it has not gone away, so does the KKK c***ts!

Yet, to take your line of argument, the n word should be considered acceptable merely because it once was.

No! I know you don't know this but your line of reasoning here is stupid, warped and leading. I love the way you change the narrative to deflect from the fact you had no issues with the confederate flag on here EVER.... Until a couple of weeks ago.

Do you think the n word is acceptable today?

Not now not ever Sid, I never used it myself, see I get one life to lead and so does everyone else, I am no better nor no worse than anyone else and to think you are somehow better than someone else based on skin colour or anything else for that matter is idiotic and dangerous.

And if not, were the people who wanted it made unacceptable correct?

I will continue to indulge you sid, yes the people who wanted the name word to be made unacceptable were and are correct.


Because, unless you address this, one would have to presume that you see these people as hypocrites.

The only hypocrisy I see here on a totally unrelated issue such as this comes from the fact that liberal black artists make a living of using the word 'nigger' in their so called art, also regular black people use the word and it is socially acceptable to many, if whitey does it he is a racist, even you can spot the hypocrisy surely???

Or that you believe that the n word should be acceptable today.

Why the f**k would anyone believe that?

None of you dimwits have as yet addressed this point.

Just did Sid, crawl back to your safe space ked!

You don't because it blows your dimwitted bluster out of the water and exposes you for what you are - ie. people who don't take the issue of racism seriously.

I don't presume to know you, you will never know me, I notice you have not got the balls to call me and others racists when it is obvious you would love to!

I take racism very seriously, I have confronted and lost a lifelong friend because I would not stand for him droning on about hating niggers! I hate that shit, I am also very aware of the fact snowflakes like yourself want to ram stam your agenda down my throat, that does not work for me and I will never run from the likes of you, I will fight you with all I have because I find your politics disgusting, repugnant and dangerous.

Cat got your tongue, Stewy, mate?

How old are you Sid? You are acting like a teenager ffs!

I have a life sid, I have answered every one of your questions, some of which were horrendously framed and I have been patient, you know were I stand and I have been consistent on here for years, albeit with 99 percent of the people disagreeing with me, that is fine but you can dig for years and you will find I am a man of many flaws, the one thing you will never find is that I am a racist, that I can promise you, sorry to disappoint!

Now can the liberals please bring me someone else to debate on here, I am done with Mr Wadell, asked and answered and put to bed, nite nite Sidney.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 10:30:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 12:58:21 AM

I've really touched a nerve with you over your defence of a racist flag, haven't I?

No Sid you did not, I did not defend any flag, I have no use for any flag, you are like a child thinking he is being clever here.

The Cork supporters flying the confederate flag has been objected to for years, you dimwit, since at least 2001.

Dimwit, hmmm, I asked you how long you objected to it and when did you post on here your issues with it, especially, since, um, you know, there have been issues with it since 2001.

If you lived in Ireland you might know that, and you might know a bit more about the place than you currently do, which appears to be very little.

I do live in Ireland Sid!

You do understand that society changes and things which were previously tolerated become no longer tolerated.

I do, I also have no problem with change, I have a real problem wit the likes of you and your antifa mates forcing it down my throat!

You do understand this, yes?

I understand I am dealing with a strange wee man here so I will be nice.

As I've asked a couple of other simpletons who have taken your line of argument, societies once considered the use of the n word to be acceptable.

Yes they did and black people still use it freely, it is repugnant and wrong.

That is clearly, and rightly, no longer the case.

Wrong, black society still uses it so it has not gone away, so does the KKK c***ts!

Yet, to take your line of argument, the n word should be considered acceptable merely because it once was.

No! I know you don't know this but your line of reasoning here is stupid, warped and leading. I love the way you change the narrative to deflect from the fact you had no issues with the confederate flag on here EVER.... Until a couple of weeks ago.

Do you think the n word is acceptable today?

Not now not ever Sid, I never used it myself, see I get one life to lead and so does everyone else, I am no better nor no worse than anyone else and to think you are somehow better than someone else based on skin colour or anything else for that matter is idiotic and dangerous.

And if not, were the people who wanted it made unacceptable correct?

I will continue to indulge you sid, yes the people who wanted the name word to be made unacceptable were and are correct.


Because, unless you address this, one would have to presume that you see these people as hypocrites.

The only hypocrisy I see here on a totally unrelated issue such as this comes from the fact that liberal black artists make a living of using the word 'nigger' in their so called art, also regular black people use the word and it is socially acceptable to many, if whitey does it he is a racist, even you can spot the hypocrisy surely???

Or that you believe that the n word should be acceptable today.

Why the f**k would anyone believe that?

None of you dimwits have as yet addressed this point.

Just did Sid, crawl back to your safe space ked!

You don't because it blows your dimwitted bluster out of the water and exposes you for what you are - ie. people who don't take the issue of racism seriously.

I don't presume to know you, you will never know me, I notice you have not got the balls to call me and others racists when it is obvious you would love to!

I take racism very seriously, I have confronted and lost a lifelong friend because I would not stand for him droning on about hating niggers! I hate that shit, I am also very aware of the fact snowflakes like yourself want to ram stam your agenda down my throat, that does not work for me and I will never run from the likes of you, I will fight you with all I have because I find your politics disgusting, repugnant and dangerous.

Cat got your tongue, Stewy, mate?

How old are you Sid? You are acting like a teenager ffs!

I have a life sid, I have answered every one of your questions, some of which were horrendously framed and I have been patient, you know were I stand and I have been consistent on here for years, albeit with 99 percent of the people disagreeing with me, that is fine but you can dig for years and you will find I am a man of many flaws, the one thing you will never find is that I am a racist, that I can promise you, sorry to disappoint!

Now can the liberals please bring me someone else to debate on here, I am done with Mr Wadell, asked and answered and put to bed, nite nite Sidney.

You haven't answered my very pertinent questions.

You've had plenty of time to write utter drivel on this forum for well over a decade, so, yes, I think you've plenty of time to answer the questions.

Which you clearly can't do.

Mate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:11:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 10:30:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2017, 12:58:21 AM

I've really touched a nerve with you over your defence of a racist flag, haven't I?

No Sid you did not, I did not defend any flag, I have no use for any flag, you are like a child thinking he is being clever here.

The Cork supporters flying the confederate flag has been objected to for years, you dimwit, since at least 2001.

Dimwit, hmmm, I asked you how long you objected to it and when did you post on here your issues with it, especially, since, um, you know, there have been issues with it since 2001.

If you lived in Ireland you might know that, and you might know a bit more about the place than you currently do, which appears to be very little.

I do live in Ireland Sid!

You do understand that society changes and things which were previously tolerated become no longer tolerated.

I do, I also have no problem with change, I have a real problem wit the likes of you and your antifa mates forcing it down my throat!

You do understand this, yes?

I understand I am dealing with a strange wee man here so I will be nice.

As I've asked a couple of other simpletons who have taken your line of argument, societies once considered the use of the n word to be acceptable.

Yes they did and black people still use it freely, it is repugnant and wrong.

That is clearly, and rightly, no longer the case.

Wrong, black society still uses it so it has not gone away, so does the KKK c***ts!

Yet, to take your line of argument, the n word should be considered acceptable merely because it once was.

No! I know you don't know this but your line of reasoning here is stupid, warped and leading. I love the way you change the narrative to deflect from the fact you had no issues with the confederate flag on here EVER.... Until a couple of weeks ago.

Do you think the n word is acceptable today?

Not now not ever Sid, I never used it myself, see I get one life to lead and so does everyone else, I am no better nor no worse than anyone else and to think you are somehow better than someone else based on skin colour or anything else for that matter is idiotic and dangerous.

And if not, were the people who wanted it made unacceptable correct?

I will continue to indulge you sid, yes the people who wanted the name word to be made unacceptable were and are correct.


Because, unless you address this, one would have to presume that you see these people as hypocrites.

The only hypocrisy I see here on a totally unrelated issue such as this comes from the fact that liberal black artists make a living of using the word 'nigger' in their so called art, also regular black people use the word and it is socially acceptable to many, if whitey does it he is a racist, even you can spot the hypocrisy surely???

Or that you believe that the n word should be acceptable today.

Why the f**k would anyone believe that?

None of you dimwits have as yet addressed this point.

Just did Sid, crawl back to your safe space ked!

You don't because it blows your dimwitted bluster out of the water and exposes you for what you are - ie. people who don't take the issue of racism seriously.

I don't presume to know you, you will never know me, I notice you have not got the balls to call me and others racists when it is obvious you would love to!

I take racism very seriously, I have confronted and lost a lifelong friend because I would not stand for him droning on about hating niggers! I hate that shit, I am also very aware of the fact snowflakes like yourself want to ram stam your agenda down my throat, that does not work for me and I will never run from the likes of you, I will fight you with all I have because I find your politics disgusting, repugnant and dangerous.

Cat got your tongue, Stewy, mate?

How old are you Sid? You are acting like a teenager ffs!

I have a life sid, I have answered every one of your questions, some of which were horrendously framed and I have been patient, you know were I stand and I have been consistent on here for years, albeit with 99 percent of the people disagreeing with me, that is fine but you can dig for years and you will find I am a man of many flaws, the one thing you will never find is that I am a racist, that I can promise you, sorry to disappoint!

Now can the liberals please bring me someone else to debate on here, I am done with Mr Wadell, asked and answered and put to bed, nite nite Sidney.

You haven't answered my very pertinent questions.

You've had plenty of time to write utter drivel on this forum for well over a decade, so, yes, I think you've plenty of time to answer the questions.

Which you clearly can't do.

Mate.

I cant answer the questions siddels if you don't ask them!

What are your 'very pertinent' questions siddels? I will be happy, this one time to answer them!

Are there any very very or very very very pertinent questions I need to worry about?

What are these questions siddles that I have refused to answer over a decade?

lets have them so e can put this to bed and then I can get on with my day and get on with talking to people worth my time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2017, 12:46:31 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/obamacare-explained-idiot/story?id=21292932
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Billys Boots on August 23, 2017, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

I'm very out-of-the-news on this topic - what was the perceived 'problem' with the Obamacare system?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on August 23, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 23, 2017, 04:45:02 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on August 23, 2017, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

I'm very out-of-the-news on this topic - what was the perceived 'problem' with the Obamacare system?
Soaring costs. Rent seeking.
the GOP were opposed to government intervention although they love government paying for prisons...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 23, 2017, 05:17:41 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

If you would just read what Gabe posted you could avoid a lot of your misconceptions 😇
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2017, 05:30:30 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

The individual mandate was an incentive for everyone to buy insurance and hence increase the risk pool. That part worked and the number of uninsured has plummeted. They considered putting in a public option but withdrew that in the interests of compromising with Republicans. (Not that you'd think there was any compromise, to listen to Fox News and their fanboys.)

There's a good explanation here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 23, 2017, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2017, 05:30:30 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

The individual mandate was an incentive for everyone to buy insurance and hence increase the risk pool. That part worked and the number of uninsured has plummeted. They considered putting in a public option but withdrew that in the interests of compromising with Republicans. (Not that you'd think there was any compromise, to listen to Fox News and their fanboys.)

There's a good explanation here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M)

And people who already had insurance, in some cases saw their premiums jump from $17 K per year to close to $30 K.......you may remember Bill Clinton describing them as "the people humping it 60 hours a week.....their premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half.....its the craziest thing ever!!!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2017, 05:51:43 PM
"These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006)."

Here's What's Happened to Health Care Costs in America in the Obama Years (http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 23, 2017, 05:57:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2017, 05:51:43 PM
"These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006)."

Here's What's Happened to Health Care Costs in America in the Obama Years (http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/)


Lol....bbbbuuuuttttI thought Obama told me if I liked my healthcare and doctor I would be able to keep both and that premiums would come down by $2500 under Obamacare......how did that crock lf lies work out?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2017, 06:51:35 PM
It went the same way as the "death panels."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 23, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 23, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2017, 11:05:33 PM
Calm down, Stew.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 24, 2017, 03:39:42 AM
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Pros and cons of the ACA are legion. Any solution though is screwed in fairness. The states have a lot of discretion. Healthcare companies in the states are for profit. Despite what you read they didn't lose money, they made less money year on year. Healthcare companies got to choose what states the offered cover and as you are aware there is significant economic diversity across states. Premiums in certain situations soared especially the self employed, for the vast majority of people though health care became affordable, and for large corps their fees came down. The self employed do not benefit from collective bargaining, nor from ACA protection so they took the brunt of the burden.

So, now you have a religious question, is it worth the cost to insure 20 million people. Macroeconomics say yes, but those affected say no, and so do small government folks, the insurance company share holders, the very wealthy, and consequently Republicans.

Strangely, areas with white people who were most likely to be positively impacted by the ACA, were most likely to want it repealed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on August 24, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 23, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 24, 2017, 12:32:04 PM
Both Parties are hopelessly corrupt. The Dems are still rational
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: APM on August 24, 2017, 02:35:24 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 24, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 23, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.

The ever sadder part is that this is fairly symptomatic of US political life with voters taking entrenched positions and living in echo bubbles where all of their media is reinforcing these beliefs.  Support for political parties and ideologies is not based on thought out processes underpinned by advanced citizenship.  It is more akin to supporting a football team, where your team can do nothing wrong and the other team are a dirty, hateful shower of b***tids.   Not much different to the kind of politics we have in the six counties, only the ideology they are fighting over here is flags, parades and the past. People here are divided on stuff that doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things.  In America its healthcare, society and the economy.

The media (right wing in particular), commentators, politicians and interest groups there have done a fantastic job at segmenting people on the grounds of liberal versus conservative and people have been sucked into believing they are on the right side.  Anyone that allows themselves to be labelled, or uses these labels to define others is buying into this system and exacerbating divisiveness. I see it here daily from people on both sides of the political spectrum.

On the right wing in particular, there is a form of political brainwashing going on. This has been getting gradully worse over the last 20 years and I don't know how whole sections of society people will step back from these entrenched positions without some major event.  It is almost like some sort of jolt is required to pull people from this very skewed thinking which ignores logic and evidence in favour of agenda and ideaology. 

Stew, I have lurked on this board for years and have always found you to be a fascinating character.  I have wondered, how someone who has grown up in Armagh during the troubles and who must surely understand what it is like to be marginalised, can appear to support those who advocate policies that would be more at home with the Vanguard Unionists of the 1970s. 



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 24, 2017, 04:12:55 PM
Fascinating book review on a biography of James McGill Buchannan, architect of the right's strategy to undermine confidence in the institutions of government to pave the way for lower taxes on the wealthy, privatize schools, destroy social security, etc...   

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/books/review/democracy-in-chains-nancy-maclean.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fbooks&action=click&contentCollection=books&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=54&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/books/review/democracy-in-chains-nancy-maclean.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fbooks&action=click&contentCollection=books&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=54&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 25, 2017, 12:06:59 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 24, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 23, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

I am not angry about anything to do with Obamacare, I had the absolute best healthcare a man could want for his family and I merely offered my opinion on Obamacare[/b].

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

It was billed as Universal healthcare when it was being promoted by the left, that is a fact.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

A simple google search will back me up, the fact HMOs left Obamacare will back me up.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

I did not post anything in sadness nor rage ffs!

I have met less than five people who I would consider racists who commented on Obama being black with any tainted or warped feelings, two of them were liberals albeit elderly.

Republicans, no matter how much you bleat about race are not racists, you are ignorant on this subject easytiger, f**king ignorant!

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Hillary is the epitome of corruption, if you cannot see that you are either stupid or in denial, you are in denial in my opinion and I am being kind.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

Are you kidding me? Americans are capitalists and capitalism has been the single greatest economic power the world has ever seen, you know absolutely f**k all about the American right, you equate people who want people to earn their corn and pay their way with people who do not care about others, that is simply not true, they simply want those who are fit to work to do so, to pay their taxes and contribute to society as a whole, wtf is wrong with that.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.

I was screwed by nobody, you have no idea how blessed I was and how successful in life I was during my time living in Green Bay, I have not one thing to be angry about on a personal level save my abject disgust at the slimy, repugnant left I will despise to my dying day, you presume to know me and you do not, I have had the sum total of one GAA board member in my life in my home in the states, we got on well there even though his politics and mine are poles apart, he got a snippet of who I am, plenty of others from Armagh know me and few would agree with me but so what, it is a discussion board for facks sake, I do take umbridge at you presuming to know me because you clearly do not, I will never presume to know you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 25, 2017, 01:16:44 AM
And what a great host you were.

I'll never forget the generosity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 25, 2017, 05:12:23 PM
A notoriously red state still trying to stop dark-skinned people from voting. No surprise there...

QuoteCourts repeatedly chastise Texas for voting-rights violations

The Lone Star state has been upbraided ten times in six years for discriminating against black and Hispanic voters

TEXAS has not had a good time of it this month in federal court. Four times in a fortnight, a federal judge has determined that the state legislature discriminated against black and Hispanic voters by drawing up electoral maps or voter-ID requirements that—by design, effect or both—reduce minority influence in the voting booth.

Ken Paxton, Texas's defiant attorney-general, promises to appeal what he calls "outrageous" rulings. But the string of defeats tells a tale of race-tinged Republican electoral hardball that may earn America's second-largest state a stint in the dog-house. The Voting Rights Act (VRA) is far from what it once was, thanks to the Supreme Court's 2013 ruling in Shelby County v Holder gutting the law's requirement that certain states get approval from the Department of Justice before changing electoral rules. But the VRA's section 3(c) survives, providing that states caught discriminating intentionally could be put back under a "preclearance" requirement—and Texas's repeated shenanigans seem to fit that bill.

Full story (https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2017/08/designed-discriminate)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on August 25, 2017, 05:16:04 PM
Republicans aren't racists, you're so f@*king ignorant.

(Except Carl Palladino, Jeff Sessions, the Charlottesville neo-Nazis/young Republicans....and Texas)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CiKe on August 26, 2017, 09:42:20 AM
Quote from: stew on August 25, 2017, 12:06:59 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 24, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 23, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

I am not angry about anything to do with Obamacare, I had the absolute best healthcare a man could want for his family and I merely offered my opinion on Obamacare[/b].

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

It was billed as Universal healthcare when it was being promoted by the left, that is a fact.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

A simple google search will back me up, the fact HMOs left Obamacare will back me up.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

I did not post anything in sadness nor rage ffs!

I have met less than five people who I would consider racists who commented on Obama being black with any tainted or warped feelings, two of them were liberals albeit elderly.

Republicans, no matter how much you bleat about race are not racists, you are ignorant on this subject easytiger, f**king ignorant!

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Hillary is the epitome of corruption, if you cannot see that you are either stupid or in denial, you are in denial in my opinion and I am being kind.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

Are you kidding me? Americans are capitalists and capitalism has been the single greatest economic power the world has ever seen, you know absolutely f**k all about the American right, you equate people who want people to earn their corn and pay their way with people who do not care about others, that is simply not true, they simply want those who are fit to work to do so, to pay their taxes and contribute to society as a whole, wtf is wrong with that.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.

I was screwed by nobody, you have no idea how blessed I was and how successful in life I was during my time living in Green Bay, I have not one thing to be angry about on a personal level save my abject disgust at the slimy, repugnant left I will despise to my dying day, you presume to know me and you do not, I have had the sum total of one GAA board member in my life in my home in the states, we got on well there even though his politics and mine are poles apart, he got a snippet of who I am, plenty of others from Armagh know me and few would agree with me but so what, it is a discussion board for facks sake, I do take umbridge at you presuming to know me because you clearly do not, I will never presume to know you.

Man not ball. Never a good sign in a debate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 26, 2017, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: CiKe on August 26, 2017, 09:42:20 AM
Quote from: stew on August 25, 2017, 12:06:59 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 24, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 23, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

I am not angry about anything to do with Obamacare, I had the absolute best healthcare a man could want for his family and I merely offered my opinion on Obamacare[/b].

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

It was billed as Universal healthcare when it was being promoted by the left, that is a fact.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

A simple google search will back me up, the fact HMOs left Obamacare will back me up.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

I did not post anything in sadness nor rage ffs!

I have met less than five people who I would consider racists who commented on Obama being black with any tainted or warped feelings, two of them were liberals albeit elderly.

Republicans, no matter how much you bleat about race are not racists, you are ignorant on this subject easytiger, f**king ignorant!

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Hillary is the epitome of corruption, if you cannot see that you are either stupid or in denial, you are in denial in my opinion and I am being kind.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

Are you kidding me? Americans are capitalists and capitalism has been the single greatest economic power the world has ever seen, you know absolutely f**k all about the American right, you equate people who want people to earn their corn and pay their way with people who do not care about others, that is simply not true, they simply want those who are fit to work to do so, to pay their taxes and contribute to society as a whole, wtf is wrong with that.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.

I was screwed by nobody, you have no idea how blessed I was and how successful in life I was during my time living in Green Bay, I have not one thing to be angry about on a personal level save my abject disgust at the slimy, repugnant left I will despise to my dying day, you presume to know me and you do not, I have had the sum total of one GAA board member in my life in my home in the states, we got on well there even though his politics and mine are poles apart, he got a snippet of who I am, plenty of others from Armagh know me and few would agree with me but so what, it is a discussion board for facks sake, I do take umbridge at you presuming to know me because you clearly do not, I will never presume to know you.

Man not ball. Never a good sign in a debate.
Eh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 26, 2017, 12:39:41 PM
Quote from: APM on August 24, 2017, 02:35:24 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 24, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 23, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.

The ever sadder part is that this is fairly symptomatic of US political life with voters taking entrenched positions and living in echo bubbles where all of their media is reinforcing these beliefs.  Support for political parties and ideologies is not based on thought out processes underpinned by advanced citizenship.  It is more akin to supporting a football team, where your team can do nothing wrong and the other team are a dirty, hateful shower of b***tids.   Not much different to the kind of politics we have in the six counties, only the ideology they are fighting over here is flags, parades and the past. People here are divided on stuff that doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things.  In America its healthcare, society and the economy.

The media (right wing in particular), commentators, politicians and interest groups there have done a fantastic job at segmenting people on the grounds of liberal versus conservative and people have been sucked into believing they are on the right side.  Anyone that allows themselves to be labelled, or uses these labels to define others is buying into this system and exacerbating divisiveness. I see it here daily from people on both sides of the political spectrum.

On the right wing in particular, there is a form of political brainwashing going on. This has been getting gradully worse over the last 20 years and I don't know how whole sections of society people will step back from these entrenched positions without some major event.  It is almost like some sort of jolt is required to pull people from this very skewed thinking which ignores logic and evidence in favour of agenda and ideaology. 

Stew, I have lurked on this board for years and have always found you to be a fascinating character.  I have wondered, how someone who has grown up in Armagh during the troubles and who must surely understand what it is like to be marginalised, can appear to support those who advocate policies that would be more at home with the Vanguard Unionists of the 1970s.

APM I understand lurking, I have friends that love this board that have lurked for years, they too are fascinated by certain posters, mostly its Fearon and O'Neill.

To answer your question you must look at your own post, you equate Stateside conservatism with vanguard Unionism, you seem to have disdain for the American press yet the right wing press is a little worse, in other words you are compromised and biased, how much time have you spent in the states and are you aware that the vast majority of the news mediums in the states have a liberal bent, as do the colleges and Universities.

I get angry not because I am a republican, I am not, I get mad on here because there is a collective of posters on here who have little to no experience of living in the states yet are subject masters on every subject pertaining to the USA, I have a lot of time for  Heganboy,he is a liberal and I respect that, has lived in the states and has formed his own opinions, he drives me doolally at times but at least he has lived in the States and actively listens to differing perspectives, most don't and most are ignorant of, or worse, close minded to the opinions of the right and dismiss those opinions as racist, politically incorrect and plain wrong, they seem to be able to be wrong on all fronts yet here we sit with all three branches republican.

The left wingers on here can only see left, they don't look right because they think it is beneath them and that gets on my tits, the arrogance of it all, the support for Clinton, the rule of law meaning nothing if said law does not suit their agenda, all of this is why I fight my corner on here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 26, 2017, 12:41:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2017, 06:51:35 PM
It went the same way as the "death panels."

Accountable for nothing as per!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 27, 2017, 06:50:05 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 24, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 23, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: stew on August 23, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.

Stew... please read this post and tell me where it is incorrect. The last sentence is unnecessary and you should not use it as an excuse for dismissing the rest of the post. The reality is Obama tried to improve the Healthcare system in the US and was met with cynical opposition from all sides. Despite the opposition he actually managed to improve it. He did not get what he wanted but he compromised to get improvement. In my world that is OK.
But the God of the Old Testament does not compromise because he is right!!! That encapsulates the politics of the right.".  God is on our side. So  "no surrender", no compromise. Does that remind you of anyone from your youth in Portadown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 27, 2017, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: stew on August 26, 2017, 12:39:41 PM


I get angry not because I am a republican, I am not, I get mad on here because there is a collective of posters on here who have little to no experience of living in the states yet are subject masters on every subject pertaining to the USA,
Nobody needs to have lived in the north of Ireland in the 1960s to know that unionism was batshit crazy and that Catholics were treated like dirt.

Nobody needs to live there now to know that a significant proportion of unionists and loyalists still are batshit crazy.

Nobody needs to live in England to know that most Brexiteers are deluded fantasists.

Nobody needs to have lived in South Africa to know that apartheid was a rotten system that was an affront to humanity.

Nobody needs to live in Venezuela now to know that the place is falling apart.

Nobody needs to live in the United States now to come to the conclusion that the Republican party is batshit crazy, inherently racist, and by far the most dangerous major political organisation in the western world.

It's called being able to decipher reality from fiction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 27, 2017, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 27, 2017, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: stew on August 26, 2017, 12:39:41 PM


I get angry not because I am a republican, I am not, I get mad on here because there is a collective of posters on here who have little to no experience of living in the states yet are subject masters on every subject pertaining to the USA,
Nobody needs to have lived in the north of Ireland in the 1960s to know that unionism was batshit crazy and that Catholics were treated like dirt.

Nobody needs to live there now to know that a significant proportion of unionists and loyalists still are batshit crazy.

Nobody needs to live in England to know that most Brexiteers are deluded fantasists.

Nobody needs to have lived in South Africa to know that apartheid was a rotten system that was an affront to humanity.

Nobody needs to live in Venezuela now to know that the place is falling apart.

Nobody needs to live in the United States now to come to the conclusion that the Republican party is batshit crazy, inherently racist, and by far the most dangerous major political organisation in the western world.

It's called being able to decipher reality from fiction.
You don't live there so you can't know is a very poor argument.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 27, 2017, 01:48:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2017, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 27, 2017, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: stew on August 26, 2017, 12:39:41 PM


I get angry not because I am a republican, I am not, I get mad on here because there is a collective of posters on here who have little to no experience of living in the states yet are subject masters on every subject pertaining to the USA,
Nobody needs to have lived in the north of Ireland in the 1960s to know that unionism was batshit crazy and that Catholics were treated like dirt.

Proof please that unionism was batshit crazy?


Nobody needs to live there now to know that a significant proportion of unionists and loyalists still are batshit crazy.

Proof please that a significant portion of unionist and loyalists are batshit crazy.

Nobody needs to live in England to know that most Brexiteers are deluded fantasists.

proof please that most brexiteers are deluded fantasists.



Nobody needs to have lived in South Africa to know that apartheid was a rotten system that was an affront to humanity.

I never said they did but it helps.

Nobody needs to live in Venezuela now to know that the place is falling apart.

I never said they did, but it helps.

Nobody needs to live in the United States now to come to the conclusion that the Republican party is batshit crazy, inherently racist, and by far the most dangerous major political organisation in the western world.

It is because you say it is, in my time there I met very few racists and half of the ones I did meet were democrats, you know damn all about the states, that much is obvious.

It's called being able to decipher reality from fiction.

You don't know enough to know nothing on this subject.
You don't live there so you can't know is a very
poor argument.

Not my argument, it really really helps when you live there for a couple of decades, you tend to know the place better than some **** that thinks he knows it because he has someone read him a book about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 27, 2017, 02:01:33 PM
Stew

I can send you a presentation of stats on how bad things are in the US. Life expectancy is falling . You don't need to live in rural Appalachia to know there is an opioid epidemic.Ever since Gutenberg invented the printing press you haven't needed to be there to know.

You don't need a vagina to know about how babies happen. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 27, 2017, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2017, 02:01:33 PM
Stew

I can send you a presentation of stats on how bad things are in the US. Life expectancy is falling . You don't need to live in rural Appalachia to know there is an opioid epidemic.Ever since Gutenberg invented the printing press you haven't needed to be there to know.

You don't need a vagina to know about how babies happen.

Unless you have lived there you really don't know, I lived in rural America and the place was thriving, the people are fantastic and as for opioids, I never met an opioid user that I know of, Oregon and California are full of them but drugs are very prevalent in Ireland so what is your point?

Your line on Gutternerg is dangerous, if you blindly believe what you read you are at the mercy of the leanings of the writer,, this explains a lot, tanks for the clarification, I now know why so many on here believe the liberal media, makes sense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 27, 2017, 02:35:30 PM
Quote from: stew on August 27, 2017, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2017, 02:01:33 PM
Stew

I can send you a presentation of stats on how bad things are in the US. Life expectancy is falling . You don't need to live in rural Appalachia to know there is an opioid epidemic.Ever since Gutenberg invented the printing press you haven't needed to be there to know.

You don't need a vagina to know about how babies happen.

Unless you have lived there you really don't know, I lived in rural America and the place was thriving, the people are fantastic and as for opioids, I never met an opioid user that I know of, Oregon and California are full of them but drugs are very prevalent in Ireland so what is your point?

Your line on Gutternerg is dangerous, if you blindly believe what you read you are at the mercy of the leanings of the writer,, this explains a lot, tanks for the clarification, I now know why so many on here believe the liberal media, makes sense.
If you read from many sources Stew and you understand charts you know the US is in a depression.
This is not ideal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on August 29, 2017, 11:01:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2017, 02:35:30 PM
Quote from: stew on August 27, 2017, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 27, 2017, 02:01:33 PM
Stew

I can send you a presentation of stats on how bad things are in the US. Life expectancy is falling . You don't need to live in rural Appalachia to know there is an opioid epidemic.Ever since Gutenberg invented the printing press you haven't needed to be there to know.

You don't need a vagina to know about how babies happen.

Unless you have lived there you really don't know, I lived in rural America and the place was thriving, the people are fantastic and as for opioids, I never met an opioid user that I know of, Oregon and California are full of them but drugs are very prevalent in Ireland so what is your point?

Your line on Gutternerg is dangerous, if you blindly believe what you read you are at the mercy of the leanings of the writer,, this explains a lot, tanks for the clarification, I now know why so many on here believe the liberal media, makes sense.
If you read from many sources Stew and you understand charts you know the US is in a depression.
This is not ideal.

Tell that to the stock market, tell that to the unemployment figures, the USA is nowhere near a depression Seafoid!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 29, 2017, 11:15:38 PM
Quote from: stew on August 29, 2017, 11:01:35 PM

Tell that to the stock market, tell that to the unemployment figures, the USA is nowhere near a depression Seafoid!

Yeah. Thank Obama!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 30, 2017, 09:16:09 AM
Stew,
No financial asset has an intrinsic value.
Is perky eternal?
Why do women wear bras?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 30, 2017, 05:01:40 PM
Trump goes to Houston to look at the flooding and all he can talk about is the size of the crowd that showed up to greet him. Meanwhile his mail-order bride (who can barely speak English) walk about in six inch stilettos. Maybe she wants to keep her heels dry but doesn't mind getting the toes wet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 30, 2017, 08:18:59 PM
I'd be more concerned about the fact that he just scrapped the Obama-era rule to tie federal funding of reconstruction to the inclusion of safeguards against increased flooding and so forth going forward.

I think most people are starting to tune out his pathetic neediness when it comes to the "look at me and my crowds and the hats you can buy on my website" stuff.

Good to see Cruz et al. from Texas/Louisiana getting their hypocrisy regarding Sandy funding thrown back in their faces. Christie and Pete King and other Republicans have been very vocal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 03, 2017, 09:13:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 30, 2017, 08:18:59 PM
I'd be more concerned about the fact that he just scrapped the Obama-era rule to tie federal funding of reconstruction to the inclusion of safeguards against increased flooding and so forth going forward.

I think most people are starting to tune out his pathetic neediness when it comes to the "look at me and my crowds and the hats you can buy on my website" stuff.

Good to see Cruz et al. from Texas/Louisiana getting their hypocrisy regarding Sandy funding thrown back in their faces. Christie and Pete King and other Republicans have been very vocal.

So North Korea test a nuke, 6.3 on the richter scale, they have the capability of reaching Chicago allegedly, their rhetoric is very aggressive and my question is what does the world do next to shut this **** down? Sanctions, more sanctions or actual bombing of the shithole?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2017, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2017, 09:13:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 30, 2017, 08:18:59 PM
I'd be more concerned about the fact that he just scrapped the Obama-era rule to tie federal funding of reconstruction to the inclusion of safeguards against increased flooding and so forth going forward.

I think most people are starting to tune out his pathetic neediness when it comes to the "look at me and my crowds and the hats you can buy on my website" stuff.

Good to see Cruz et al. from Texas/Louisiana getting their hypocrisy regarding Sandy funding thrown back in their faces. Christie and Pete King and other Republicans have been very vocal.

So North Korea test a nuke, 6.3 on the richter scale, they have the capability of reaching Chicago allegedly, their rhetoric is very aggressive and my question is what does the world do next to shut this **** down? Sanctions, more sanctions or actual bombing of the shithole?
Good for North Korea. With an insane, warmongering idiot as US president, it's only prudent for them to take steps to defend themselves.

I'd suggest sanctions on the US only Mr. Trump seems intent on voluntarily imposing such on his own country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 03, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2017, 09:13:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 30, 2017, 08:18:59 PM
I'd be more concerned about the fact that he just scrapped the Obama-era rule to tie federal funding of reconstruction to the inclusion of safeguards against increased flooding and so forth going forward.

I think most people are starting to tune out his pathetic neediness when it comes to the "look at me and my crowds and the hats you can buy on my website" stuff.

Good to see Cruz et al. from Texas/Louisiana getting their hypocrisy regarding Sandy funding thrown back in their faces. Christie and Pete King and other Republicans have been very vocal.

So North Korea test a nuke, 6.3 on the richter scale, they have the capability of reaching Chicago allegedly, their rhetoric is very aggressive and my question is what does the world do next to shut this **** down? Sanctions, more sanctions or actual bombing of the shithole?

You seriously think Kim Jung Un will strike first?

Just what does he have to gain? North Korea would be wiped out within hours.

This is all about self-preservation and leverage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CiKe on September 03, 2017, 03:15:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2017, 09:13:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 30, 2017, 08:18:59 PM
I'd be more concerned about the fact that he just scrapped the Obama-era rule to tie federal funding of reconstruction to the inclusion of safeguards against increased flooding and so forth going forward.

I think most people are starting to tune out his pathetic neediness when it comes to the "look at me and my crowds and the hats you can buy on my website" stuff.

Good to see Cruz et al. from Texas/Louisiana getting their hypocrisy regarding Sandy funding thrown back in their faces. Christie and Pete King and other Republicans have been very vocal.

So North Korea test a nuke, 6.3 on the richter scale, they have the capability of reaching Chicago allegedly, their rhetoric is very aggressive and my question is what does the world do next to shut this **** down? Sanctions, more sanctions or actual bombing of the shithole?

You seriously think Kim Jung Un will strike first?

Just what does he have to gain? North Korea would be wiped out within hours.

This is all about self-preservation and leverage.


Know f**k all about it, but that would be my take as well. Bannon's quote about not being able to solve the part where 10mn die in Seoul in the first 30 mins is probably not far off the mark. Let's hope Donald doesn't do anything stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 04, 2017, 02:27:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2017, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2017, 09:13:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 30, 2017, 08:18:59 PM
I'd be more concerned about the fact that he just scrapped the Obama-era rule to tie federal funding of reconstruction to the inclusion of safeguards against increased flooding and so forth going forward.

I think most people are starting to tune out his pathetic neediness when it comes to the "look at me and my crowds and the hats you can buy on my website" stuff.

Good to see Cruz et al. from Texas/Louisiana getting their hypocrisy regarding Sandy funding thrown back in their faces. Christie and Pete King and other Republicans have been very vocal.

So North Korea test a nuke, 6.3 on the richter scale, they have the capability of reaching Chicago allegedly, their rhetoric is very aggressive and my question is what does the world do next to shut this **** down? Sanctions, more sanctions or actual bombing of the shithole?
Good for North Korea. With an insane, warmongering idiot as US president, it's only prudent for them to take steps to defend themselves.

What wars has Trump started Sidley to make him a war monger? You don't give a shite about what is good for the people of north Korea!

I'd suggest sanctions on the US only Mr. Trump seems intent on voluntarily imposing such on his own country.

I do not like Trump, I never liked Trump but I accept the will of the people, democracy and all hat, he won, your candidate lost, get over it sidley. )

















Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 04, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Stew,
The will of the people, or the result of the electoral college system?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 04, 2017, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Stew,
The will of the people, or the result of the electoral college system?

The will of the people, he won based on the rules fair and square, the electoral college system has been an effective way to ensure that the likes of New York and LA do not overly influence the outcome of an election, it helps sell the notion that every vote counts in rural America, Trump won the electoral college votes required to be President, the hag did not and is now running around the country telling people why she lost, problem is all she need do is look in the mirror, but she is too arrogant to be accountable.

The liberals effed up, Saunders should have been their candidate and he would have rolled over Trump, but no, they, as usual cheated and shot themselves in the foot, and now we all get to live Trumps Presidency, hanks democrats you steaming pile of horse shit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 04, 2017, 10:39:27 AM
The 'Electoral College' argument is the biggest red herring ever. He played the rules, and spent money in states he knew he had a chance in, and calculated the amount of votes he needed.

I said it last November, and I'll say it again now. If the Democrats think that they can wish it all better by complaining about the system, or sneering at the lad that won, then they will sleep walk into another mess in 3 years time. They owe it to their country and to the world to stop that happening. Trump is a dangerous lunatic, and if they don't heed what they've been told about disconnecting from the people in those states they turn their nose up at, they will allow Trump mark 2, or Trump himself to walk back into the Whitehouse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 04, 2017, 10:42:23 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 04, 2017, 10:39:27 AM
The 'Electoral College' argument is the biggest red herring ever. He played the rules, and spent money in states he knew he had a chance in, and calculated the amount of votes he needed.

I said it last November, and I'll say it again now. If the Democrats think that they can wish it all better by complaining about the system, or sneering at the lad that won, then they will sleep walk into another mess in 3 years time. They owe it to their country and to the world to stop that happening. Trump is a dangerous lunatic, and if they don't heed what they've been told about disconnecting from the people in those states they turn their nose up at, they will allow Trump mark 2, or Trump himself to walk back into the Whitehouse.

Who is Trump 2?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 04, 2017, 11:10:31 AM
I don't know, but if Trump doesn't run, there will be someone like him if they think they can get elected on a similar platform.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 04, 2017, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: stew on September 04, 2017, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Stew,
The will of the people, or the result of the electoral college system?

The will of the people, he won based on the rules fair and square, the electoral college system has been an effective way to ensure that the likes of New York and LA do not overly influence the outcome of an election, it helps sell the notion that every vote counts in rural America, Trump won the electoral college votes required to be President, the hag did not and is now running around the country telling people why she lost, problem is all she need do is look in the mirror, but she is too arrogant to be accountable.

The liberals effed up, Saunders should have been their candidate and he would have rolled over Trump, but no, they, as usual cheated and shot themselves in the foot, and now we all get to live Trumps Presidency, hanks democrats you steaming pile of horse shit!

For about the tenth time stew, just how was Sanders cheated out of the nomination? What act(s) were committed that made the difference in him winning and losing?

And how are Democrats to blame for Trump? The people of your political ilk i.e. Republicans, are the ones who chose him in the primaries and then voted for him, despite the evidence that he is possibly the most bill-equipped person to ever run for the office and an utterly shameful person.

Trump's childishness, untruthfulness, lack of character and core beliefs or philosophy, immorality, narcissism and contempt for anyone or anything that declined to service him personally above all, were highly visible during the campaign. You lot (i.e. conservatives) chose him, not us. And now you're all (or at least those with any intelligence and decency) dealing with buyer's remorse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on September 04, 2017, 12:58:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 04, 2017, 10:39:27 AM
The 'Electoral College' argument is the biggest red herring ever. He played the rules, and spent money in states he knew he had a chance in, and calculated the amount of votes he needed.

I said it last November, and I'll say it again now. If the Democrats think that they can wish it all better by complaining about the system, or sneering at the lad that won, then they will sleep walk into another mess in 3 years time. They owe it to their country and to the world to stop that happening. Trump is a dangerous lunatic, and if they don't heed what they've been told about disconnecting from the people in those states they turn their nose up at, they will allow Trump mark 2, or Trump himself to walk back into the Whitehouse.

In one way, it may not be a red herring. Whilst I think the electoral college is an outdated system, it is the same for both candidates. However, one of the really interesting strands of the Russian investigation is the relationship between Cambridge Analytical and Russian non-state and state actors. Basic run down is that whilst Cambridge knew where potential Trump swing voters were, they didn't have the large resources necessary to effectively target them. The 300 pound guy in the New Jersey bedroom was actually an army of hackers and bots, spread out across the former Soviet republics, working with Cambridge data to clog up Facebook and twitter feeds of swing voters with fake news. Yet to be proven, but (apart from the money laundering angle) it is one of the only theories I have seen which actually gives a credible motivation to the Trump campaign for any possible collusion with Russian sources. If it is true (again yet to be proven) the 72000 voters across the three states that delivered the win for Trump in the EC, were knobbled by foreign actors.

Could turn out to be nothing of course, but, increasingly the 2016 election is looking like the 1988 100 metres in Seoul.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Stew,
The will of the people, or the result of the electoral college system?

The system is the system and it was the same for each candidate

The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......just shows what a monumental fvck up the Clinton campaign was

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-2016-race-an-electoral-college-edge-for-democrats/2015/03/15/855f2792-cb3c-11e4-a2a7-9517a3a70506_story.html?utm_term=.b0a91a499977
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on September 04, 2017, 03:23:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 04, 2017, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: stew on September 04, 2017, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Stew,
The will of the people, or the result of the electoral college system?

The will of the people, he won based on the rules fair and square, the electoral college system has been an effective way to ensure that the likes of New York and LA do not overly influence the outcome of an election, it helps sell the notion that every vote counts in rural America, Trump won the electoral college votes required to be President, the hag did not and is now running around the country telling people why she lost, problem is all she need do is look in the mirror, but she is too arrogant to be accountable.

The liberals effed up, Saunders should have been their candidate and he would have rolled over Trump, but no, they, as usual cheated and shot themselves in the foot, and now we all get to live Trumps Presidency, hanks democrats you steaming pile of horse shit!

For about the tenth time stew, just how was Sanders cheated out of the nomination? What act(s) were committed that made the difference in him winning and losing?

And how are Democrats to blame for Trump? The people of your political ilk i.e. Republicans, are the ones who chose him in the primaries and then voted for him, despite the evidence that he is possibly the most bill-equipped person to ever run for the office and an utterly shameful person.

Trump's childishness, untruthfulness, lack of character and core beliefs or philosophy, immorality, narcissism and contempt for anyone or anything that declined to service him personally above all, were highly visible during the campaign. You lot (i.e. conservatives) chose him, not us. And now you're all (or at least those with any intelligence and decency) dealing with buyer's remorse.

The DNC were being sued due to them not running a fair election. Think it boils down to Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a key Clinton supporter, who is alleged to have obstructed the Saunders campaign. One of the big claims was that she blocked Saunders campaign receiving state democratic member lists, but was providing them to HC. This meant that he was unable to target primary voters in the same way as Hillary was.

A judge ruled out the claim (but said that insufficient evidence was presented, so not necessarily getting the DNC off the hook).

What about this from a quote credited to the DNC (From a news article coving the lawsuit)
"The DNC's response to the suit also rightfully upset mainline progressives: Earlier this year, lawyers for the DNC astoundingly argued that the committee was not bound by law to hold fair elections, a claim that — although potentially true — didn't endear anyone to their cause.

During a hearing for the case in April, DNC lawyer Bruce Spiva argued that the committee's impartiality rule is "a discretionary rule that [the DNC] didn't need to adopt to begin with" and that any rules the DNC allegedly breaks is a private matter. Though most legal analysts argued this was probably legally sound, it certainly does not dispel rumors that the party is an oligarchic behemoth too far removed from the concerns of ordinary people.

Notably, Judge Zloch didn't rule that it's impossible to sue the DNC for fraud — just that the Becks likely didn't do enough to prove their case
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
So they don't. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
So they don't. Thanks.

They do but they can't execute on it because they have coronations instead of primaries
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2017, 09:30:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
So they don't. Thanks.

They do but they can't execute on it because they have coronations instead of primaries

Correct Whitey, the crowned the Clintonator and that stupid bitch stole defeat from the jaws of victory........................................Against TRUMP of all people! Donkeys the lot of them!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
So they don't. Thanks.

They do but they can't execute on it because they have coronations instead of primaries
It must be great to be a Republican, all the same. You can just completely disregard facts and evidence and convince yourself that any old nonsense is true!

I just won the Lotto yesterday, you know, even though there was no draw and I've never bought a Lotto ticket in me life. And Liverpool won the league last season with Luis Suarez banging in 50 goals!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2017, 12:24:21 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 04, 2017, 03:23:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 04, 2017, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: stew on September 04, 2017, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Stew,
The will of the people, or the result of the electoral college system?

The will of the people, he won based on the rules fair and square, the electoral college system has been an effective way to ensure that the likes of New York and LA do not overly influence the outcome of an election, it helps sell the notion that every vote counts in rural America, Trump won the electoral college votes required to be President, the hag did not and is now running around the country telling people why she lost, problem is all she need do is look in the mirror, but she is too arrogant to be accountable.

The liberals effed up, Saunders should have been their candidate and he would have rolled over Trump, but no, they, as usual cheated and shot themselves in the foot, and now we all get to live Trumps Presidency, hanks democrats you steaming pile of horse shit!

For about the tenth time stew, just how was Sanders cheated out of the nomination? What act(s) were committed that made the difference in him winning and losing?

And how are Democrats to blame for Trump? The people of your political ilk i.e. Republicans, are the ones who chose him in the primaries and then voted for him, despite the evidence that he is possibly the most bill-equipped person to ever run for the office and an utterly shameful person.

Trump's childishness, untruthfulness, lack of character and core beliefs or philosophy, immorality, narcissism and contempt for anyone or anything that declined to service him personally above all, were highly visible during the campaign. You lot (i.e. conservatives) chose him, not us. And now you're all (or at least those with any intelligence and decency) dealing with buyer's remorse.

The DNC were being sued due to them not running a fair election. Think it boils down to Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a key Clinton supporter, who is alleged to have obstructed the Saunders campaign. One of the big claims was that she blocked Saunders campaign receiving state democratic member lists, but was providing them to HC. This meant that he was unable to target primary voters in the same way as Hillary was.

A judge ruled out the claim (but said that insufficient evidence was presented, so not necessarily getting the DNC off the hook).

What about this from a quote credited to the DNC (From a news article coving the lawsuit)
"The DNC's response to the suit also rightfully upset mainline progressives: Earlier this year, lawyers for the DNC astoundingly argued that the committee was not bound by law to hold fair elections, a claim that — although potentially true — didn't endear anyone to their cause.

During a hearing for the case in April, DNC lawyer Bruce Spiva argued that the committee's impartiality rule is "a discretionary rule that [the DNC] didn't need to adopt to begin with" and that any rules the DNC allegedly breaks is a private matter. Though most legal analysts argued this was probably legally sound, it certainly does not dispel rumors that the party is an oligarchic behemoth too far removed from the concerns of ordinary people.

Notably, Judge Zloch didn't rule that it's impossible to sue the DNC for fraud — just that the Becks likely didn't do enough to prove their case

So a dismissed suit means Bernie was cheated out of the nomination??

Were any ballot boxes stuffed?

Was anyone forced to vote for Hillary when they really wanted Bernie?

Was Bernie's message of universal healthcare and free college tuition and corrupt bankers not broadcast and heard?

I don't think anyone is disputing that the DNC wanted Clinton. I just don't see how that ultimately made a difference or how he was "cheated" out of the nomination. Bernie got huge publicity, reflected in his vote and his campaign running into the summer. He wasn't Jim Webb or Martin O'Malley or the barely conscious Lincoln Chafee.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
So they don't. Thanks.

They do but they can't execute on it because they have coronations instead of primaries
It must be great to be a Republican, all the same. You can just completely disregard facts and evidence and convince yourself that any old nonsense is true!

I just won the Lotto yesterday, you know, even though there was no draw and I've never bought a Lotto ticket in me life. And Liverpool won the league last season with Luis Suarez banging in 50 goals!

I a not a republican kid, I don't know about Whitey!

You want reality siddles, here is some realit for you, Donald Trump is President you numpty, have the balls to ask yourself why!

I love the dems, no one has done less with more than these fuckheads, as bad as the republicans are, they are light years ahead of the liberal left and its corruption and toothless governance, in short sidley, ye all are a useless ball of shite! )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2017, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 12:24:21 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 04, 2017, 03:23:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 04, 2017, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: stew on September 04, 2017, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Stew,
The will of the people, or the result of the electoral college system?

The will of the people, he won based on the rules fair and square, the electoral college system has been an effective way to ensure that the likes of New York and LA do not overly influence the outcome of an election, it helps sell the notion that every vote counts in rural America, Trump won the electoral college votes required to be President, the hag did not and is now running around the country telling people why she lost, problem is all she need do is look in the mirror, but she is too arrogant to be accountable.

The liberals effed up, Saunders should have been their candidate and he would have rolled over Trump, but no, they, as usual cheated and shot themselves in the foot, and now we all get to live Trumps Presidency, hanks democrats you steaming pile of horse shit!

For about the tenth time stew, just how was Sanders cheated out of the nomination? What act(s) were committed that made the difference in him winning and losing?

And how are Democrats to blame for Trump? The people of your political ilk i.e. Republicans, are the ones who chose him in the primaries and then voted for him, despite the evidence that he is possibly the most bill-equipped person to ever run for the office and an utterly shameful person.

Trump's childishness, untruthfulness, lack of character and core beliefs or philosophy, immorality, narcissism and contempt for anyone or anything that declined to service him personally above all, were highly visible during the campaign. You lot (i.e. conservatives) chose him, not us. And now you're all (or at least those with any intelligence and decency) dealing with buyer's remorse.

The DNC were being sued due to them not running a fair election. Think it boils down to Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a key Clinton supporter, who is alleged to have obstructed the Saunders campaign. One of the big claims was that she blocked Saunders campaign receiving state democratic member lists, but was providing them to HC. This meant that he was unable to target primary voters in the same way as Hillary was.

A judge ruled out the claim (but said that insufficient evidence was presented, so not necessarily getting the DNC off the hook).

What about this from a quote credited to the DNC (From a news article coving the lawsuit)
"The DNC's response to the suit also rightfully upset mainline progressives: Earlier this year, lawyers for the DNC astoundingly argued that the committee was not bound by law to hold fair elections, a claim that — although potentially true — didn't endear anyone to their cause.

During a hearing for the case in April, DNC lawyer Bruce Spiva argued that the committee's impartiality rule is "a discretionary rule that [the DNC] didn't need to adopt to begin with" and that any rules the DNC allegedly breaks is a private matter. Though most legal analysts argued this was probably legally sound, it certainly does not dispel rumors that the party is an oligarchic behemoth too far removed from the concerns of ordinary people.

Notably, Judge Zloch didn't rule that it's impossible to sue the DNC for fraud — just that the Becks likely didn't do enough to prove their case

So a dismissed suit means Bernie was cheated out of the nomination??

Were any ballot boxes stuffed?

Was anyone forced to vote for Hillary when they really wanted Bernie?

Was Bernie's message of universal healthcare and free college tuition and corrupt bankers not broadcast and heard?

I don't think anyone is disputing that the DNC wanted Clinton. I just don't see how that ultimately made a difference or how he was "cheated" out of the nomination. Bernie got huge publicity, reflected in his vote and his campaign running into the summer. He wasn't Jim Webb or Martin O'Malley or the barely conscious Lincoln Chafee.

Do you think the Saunders campaign got a fair shake at running for the democratic nomination????

Cut through all your semantic bullshit and answer that question!

Clinton is rotten to the core and the public spat the bitch out because she was rancid, get this, the people were so disgusted by her they voted Trump into the oval office and yet you, the sheep still cant figure out why! Never change. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2017, 12:52:41 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2017, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 12:24:21 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 04, 2017, 03:23:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 04, 2017, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: stew on September 04, 2017, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Stew,
The will of the people, or the result of the electoral college system?

The will of the people, he won based on the rules fair and square, the electoral college system has been an effective way to ensure that the likes of New York and LA do not overly influence the outcome of an election, it helps sell the notion that every vote counts in rural America, Trump won the electoral college votes required to be President, the hag did not and is now running around the country telling people why she lost, problem is all she need do is look in the mirror, but she is too arrogant to be accountable.

The liberals effed up, Saunders should have been their candidate and he would have rolled over Trump, but no, they, as usual cheated and shot themselves in the foot, and now we all get to live Trumps Presidency, hanks democrats you steaming pile of horse shit!

For about the tenth time stew, just how was Sanders cheated out of the nomination? What act(s) were committed that made the difference in him winning and losing?

And how are Democrats to blame for Trump? The people of your political ilk i.e. Republicans, are the ones who chose him in the primaries and then voted for him, despite the evidence that he is possibly the most bill-equipped person to ever run for the office and an utterly shameful person.

Trump's childishness, untruthfulness, lack of character and core beliefs or philosophy, immorality, narcissism and contempt for anyone or anything that declined to service him personally above all, were highly visible during the campaign. You lot (i.e. conservatives) chose him, not us. And now you're all (or at least those with any intelligence and decency) dealing with buyer's remorse.

The DNC were being sued due to them not running a fair election. Think it boils down to Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a key Clinton supporter, who is alleged to have obstructed the Saunders campaign. One of the big claims was that she blocked Saunders campaign receiving state democratic member lists, but was providing them to HC. This meant that he was unable to target primary voters in the same way as Hillary was.

A judge ruled out the claim (but said that insufficient evidence was presented, so not necessarily getting the DNC off the hook).

What about this from a quote credited to the DNC (From a news article coving the lawsuit)
"The DNC's response to the suit also rightfully upset mainline progressives: Earlier this year, lawyers for the DNC astoundingly argued that the committee was not bound by law to hold fair elections, a claim that — although potentially true — didn't endear anyone to their cause.

During a hearing for the case in April, DNC lawyer Bruce Spiva argued that the committee's impartiality rule is "a discretionary rule that [the DNC] didn't need to adopt to begin with" and that any rules the DNC allegedly breaks is a private matter. Though most legal analysts argued this was probably legally sound, it certainly does not dispel rumors that the party is an oligarchic behemoth too far removed from the concerns of ordinary people.

Notably, Judge Zloch didn't rule that it's impossible to sue the DNC for fraud — just that the Becks likely didn't do enough to prove their case

So a dismissed suit means Bernie was cheated out of the nomination??

Were any ballot boxes stuffed?

Was anyone forced to vote for Hillary when they really wanted Bernie?

Was Bernie's message of universal healthcare and free college tuition and corrupt bankers not broadcast and heard?

I don't think anyone is disputing that the DNC wanted Clinton. I just don't see how that ultimately made a difference or how he was "cheated" out of the nomination. Bernie got huge publicity, reflected in his vote and his campaign running into the summer. He wasn't Jim Webb or Martin O'Malley or the barely conscious Lincoln Chafee.

Do you think the Saunders campaign got a fair shake at running for the democratic nomination????

Cut through all your semantic bullshit and answer that question!

Clinton is rotten to the core and the public spat the bitch out because she was rancid, get this, the people were so disgusted by her they voted Trump into the oval office and yet you, the sheep still cant figure out why! Never change.

I think the DNC was biased towards Clinton.

I do not see how that means they cheated Sanders out of the millions of votes he would have needed to win the nomination.

Those are not contradictory statements.

And I'm sorry stew, but someone who posts as much inane, brainless facebook meme nonsense and conspiracy theories as you do has no business labelling anyone else as a member of the "sheep"!

Clinton lost because she was a horrible candidate who did not generate the enthusiasm of Obama, at least not to the extent necessary to counter the millions who embraced the message of the GOP that Muslims and Mexicans were the cause of all their problems (oh yeah, and Obamacare would be repealed on day 1  ;D).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 05, 2017, 03:10:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
So they don't. Thanks.

They do but they can't execute on it because they have coronations instead of primaries
It must be great to be a Republican, all the same. You can just completely disregard facts and evidence and convince yourself that any old nonsense is true!

I just won the Lotto yesterday, you know, even though there was no draw and I've never bought a Lotto ticket in me life. And Liverpool won the league last season with Luis Suarez banging in 50 goals!

You're right....the electoral college prevented Hillary from setting foot in WI during the general election, even though she lost the Primary there to Bernie by 20 points

The Electoral College was also responsible for her classified emails appearing on Anthony Wieners laptop 2 weeks before the election

It was also responsible for Bill Clinton sexually assaulting several women over the years

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2017, 03:19:08 PM
So it looks like Trump is going to give Congress six months before the DACA change becomes final and all these young people become subject to deportation.

Will Ryan and GOP work with Democrats to pass legislation addressing the issue of kids who were brought to and raised in the US illegally? Because I doubt Ryan will have the votes. And if he does get legislation passed, will Trump sign it? Will the "build the wall" crowd stand for that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 03:24:48 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
So they don't. Thanks.

They do but they can't execute on it because they have coronations instead of primaries
It must be great to be a Republican, all the same. You can just completely disregard facts and evidence and convince yourself that any old nonsense is true!

I just won the Lotto yesterday, you know, even though there was no draw and I've never bought a Lotto ticket in me life. And Liverpool won the league last season with Luis Suarez banging in 50 goals!

I a not a republican kid, I don't know about Whitey!
See, you just keep proving me right!  ;D

Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 03:10:17 PM

You're right....the electoral college prevented Hillary from setting foot in WI during the general election, even though she lost the Primary there to Bernie by 20 points

The Electoral College was also responsible for her classified emails appearing on Anthony Wieners laptop 2 weeks before the election

It was also responsible for Bill Clinton sexually assaulting several women over the years

Cool, mate, so you agree the Democrats don't have an electoral college advantage, the Republicans do. We'd already established that point, which is what we were discussing, and you haven't advanced anything relevant there.

Breitbart is good for posting replies like your last one, I hear.

But sure as you say yourself, keep it up, keep it up. I'm sure someone will listen.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on September 05, 2017, 03:44:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 03:24:48 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
So they don't. Thanks.

They do but they can't execute on it because they have coronations instead of primaries
It must be great to be a Republican, all the same. You can just completely disregard facts and evidence and convince yourself that any old nonsense is true!

I just won the Lotto yesterday, you know, even though there was no draw and I've never bought a Lotto ticket in me life. And Liverpool won the league last season with Luis Suarez banging in 50 goals!

I a not a republican kid, I don't know about Whitey!
See, you just keep proving me right!  ;D

Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 03:10:17 PM

You're right....the electoral college prevented Hillary from setting foot in WI during the general election, even though she lost the Primary there to Bernie by 20 points

The Electoral College was also responsible for her classified emails appearing on Anthony Wieners laptop 2 weeks before the election

It was also responsible for Bill Clinton sexually assaulting several women over the years

Cool, mate, so you agree the Democrats don't have an electoral college advantage, the Republicans do. We'd already established that point, which is what we were discussing, and you haven't advanced anything relevant there.

Breitbart is good for posting replies like your last one, I hear.

But sure as you say yourself, keep it up, keep it up. I'm sure someone will listen.

Ref Electoral College Advantage-

Since 1960 - the US have had 7 Dem and 8 Rep Presidents......That would indicate that the electoral college system works - i.e, despite some nuances, the system doesn't favor one part or the other
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 05, 2017, 04:13:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 03:24:48 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2017, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM


The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......
Yes, such a huge electoral college advantage that they've lost two of the last five elections despite winning the popular vote in them and have never in living memory won the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

Well on paper the do....not they Republicans fault if the Democrats force through a shite candidate who runs a shite campaign
So they don't. Thanks.

They do but they can't execute on it because they have coronations instead of primaries
It must be great to be a Republican, all the same. You can just completely disregard facts and evidence and convince yourself that any old nonsense is true!

I just won the Lotto yesterday, you know, even though there was no draw and I've never bought a Lotto ticket in me life. And Liverpool won the league last season with Luis Suarez banging in 50 goals!

I a not a republican kid, I don't know about Whitey!
See, you just keep proving me right!  ;D

Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 03:10:17 PM

You're right....the electoral college prevented Hillary from setting foot in WI during the general election, even though she lost the Primary there to Bernie by 20 points

The Electoral College was also responsible for her classified emails appearing on Anthony Wieners laptop 2 weeks before the election

It was also responsible for Bill Clinton sexually assaulting several women over the years

Cool, mate, so you agree the Democrats don't have an electoral college advantage, the Republicans do. We'd already established that point, which is what we were discussing, and you haven't advanced anything relevant there.

Breitbart is good for posting replies like your last one, I hear.

But sure as you say yourself, keep it up, keep it up. I'm sure someone will listen.


Haha....keep blaming the Electoral College and you'll see what happens in 2018 and 2020.  Believe whatever you want.....many highly respected left leaning sources said that Democrats had an Electoral College advantage....they only changed to heir tune when they had the heir arses handed to them. if you chose to believe different....do so at your peril.....keep her lit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2017, 05:34:33 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541)

Interesting article from Politico discussing a long term project, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which seeks to allow states to award their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote instead of having to go with the winner of that state.

The obvious advantage is that every vote would carry equal weight, unlike now, when the likes of Whitey casts a futile, pointless vote for president in Massachusetts or where my vote in NY is worth less than my in-laws' votes in one of the rural western states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 05, 2017, 05:49:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 04:13:43 PM
Believe whatever you want.....
I won't bother to join you in doing such, thanks, you're already pretty good at it.  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 06:19:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 05:34:33 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541)

Interesting article from Politico discussing a long term project, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which seeks to allow states to award their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote instead of having to go with the winner of that state.

The obvious advantage is that every vote would carry equal weight, unlike now, when the likes of Whitey casts a futile, pointless vote for president in Massachusetts or where my vote in NY is worth less than my in-laws' votes in one of the rural western states.

It would effectively abolish the electoral college without a constitutional amendment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 05, 2017, 06:41:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 05:34:33 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541)

Interesting article from Politico discussing a long term project, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which seeks to allow states to award their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote instead of having to go with the winner of that state.

The obvious advantage is that every vote would carry equal weight, unlike now, when the likes of Whitey casts a futile, pointless vote for president in Massachusetts or where my vote in NY is worth less than my in-laws' votes in one of the rural western states.

Would it not make more sense for each state to appoint their ELecorate College delegates proportionate to how their own state voted? Eg. If you get 40% of the vote you get 40% of the delegates for your state.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2017, 06:54:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 06:41:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 05:34:33 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541)

Interesting article from Politico discussing a long term project, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which seeks to allow states to award their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote instead of having to go with the winner of that state.

The obvious advantage is that every vote would carry equal weight, unlike now, when the likes of Whitey casts a futile, pointless vote for president in Massachusetts or where my vote in NY is worth less than my in-laws' votes in one of the rural western states.

Would it not make more sense for each state to appoint their ELecorate College delegates proportionate to how many their own state voted? Eg. If you get 40% of the vote you get 40% of the delegates for your state.

Think I would agree.

That would still put every vote into play, while being a lot fairer overall.

How many significant figures/decimal places though? :)



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 06:41:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 05:34:33 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541)

Interesting article from Politico discussing a long term project, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which seeks to allow states to award their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote instead of having to go with the winner of that state.

The obvious advantage is that every vote would carry equal weight, unlike now, when the likes of Whitey casts a futile, pointless vote for president in Massachusetts or where my vote in NY is worth less than my in-laws' votes in one of the rural western states.

Would it not make more sense for each state to appoint their ELecorate College delegates proportionate to how their own state voted? Eg. If you get 40% of the vote you get 40% of the delegates for your state.

Nope. This way the popular vote is what gets to decide. Democracy will be restored.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 05, 2017, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 06:41:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 05:34:33 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541)

Interesting article from Politico discussing a long term project, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which seeks to allow states to award their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote instead of having to go with the winner of that state.

The obvious advantage is that every vote would carry equal weight, unlike now, when the likes of Whitey casts a futile, pointless vote for president in Massachusetts or where my vote in NY is worth less than my in-laws' votes in one of the rural western states.

Would it not make more sense for each state to appoint their ELecorate College delegates proportionate to how their own state voted? Eg. If you get 40% of the vote you get 40% of the delegates for your state.

Nope. This way the popular vote is what gets to decide. Democracy will be restored.


Hold off on the auld restoring!!!

I take it you know the US is not a Democracy.....never was and never will be unless the constitution is changed

http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-united-states-of-america-is-a-democracy/


Just curious if TX had the same population as CA, and Texans instead of Californians  got to decide the outcome of the Presidential Election how would the Democrats feel about the Electoral College?

Imagine a bunch of pro life, Beer swilling, climate change denying, bible thumpers holding both parties to ranson......it'd be great!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 05, 2017, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.

This was never set up to be republican friendly, it was devised so that people in rural areas would feel like their vote counted even if a bunch of morons in LA and New York voted a different way than they did, their vote mattered and it is a brilliant piece of legislation no matter who benefits politically.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2017, 11:13:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 06:41:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 05:34:33 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/electoral-college-national-popular-vote-compact-215541)

Interesting article from Politico discussing a long term project, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which seeks to allow states to award their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote instead of having to go with the winner of that state.

The obvious advantage is that every vote would carry equal weight, unlike now, when the likes of Whitey casts a futile, pointless vote for president in Massachusetts or where my vote in NY is worth less than my in-laws' votes in one of the rural western states.

Would it not make more sense for each state to appoint their ELecorate College delegates proportionate to how their own state voted? Eg. If you get 40% of the vote you get 40% of the delegates for your state.

Nope. This way the popular vote is what gets to decide. Democracy will be restored.


Hold off on the auld restoring!!!

I take it you know the US is not a Democracy.....never was and never will be unless the constitution is changed

http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-united-states-of-america-is-a-democracy/


Just curious if TX had the same population as CA, and Texans instead of Californians  got to decide the outcome of the Presidential Election how would the Democrats feel about the Electoral College?

Imagine a bunch of pro life, Beer swilling, climate change denying, bible thumpers holding both parties to ranson......it'd be great!

Why would that be "great"??

And is it not the case already given that the rural vote carries more weight?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:15:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.


So following that logic,  the unionist majority in the North should be allowed to lord it over their Nationalist brethren given their numerical superiority? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2017, 11:15:34 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2017, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.

This was never set up to be republican friendly, it was devised so that people in rural areas would feel like their vote counted even if a bunch of morons in LA and New York voted a different way than they did, their vote mattered and it is a brilliant piece of legislation no matter who benefits politically.

Its just that the votes of the morons in rural areas carry more weight under this system.

Under a popular vote, everyone's vote would count equally, no matter what their political leaning.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2017, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:15:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.


So following that logic,  the unionist majority in the North should be allowed to lord it over their Nationalist brethren given their numerical superiority?

Was it the issue in the north not that catholics were second class citizens, discriminated against by the state and under represented due to gerrymandering?

That kind of dominance is hardly what Eamon is proposing, is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:40:00 PM
All kidding aside, if we had an election based on a simple majority, would the progressives on here agree to voters having to present a valid state or national id in order to vote?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2017, 02:29:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:40:00 PM
All kidding aside, if we had an election based on a simple majority, would the progressives on here agree to voters having to present a valid state or national id in order to vote?

I wouldn't have a problem with it now if the ids and necessary documents were made available for free or on the cheap for the poor people who usually are the ones who lack them.

That said, it's all still a solution in search of a problem, despite Trump's ludicrous lies.

(He's not uttered a word either about the Obama admin being confirmed as NOT having bugged Trump Tower. Shocking, I know!  ;D)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 06, 2017, 02:52:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 11:15:34 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2017, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.

This was never set up to be republican friendly, it was devised so that people in rural areas would feel like their vote counted even if a bunch of morons in LA and New York voted a different way than they did, their vote mattered and it is a brilliant piece of legislation no matter who benefits politically.

Its just that the votes of the morons in rural areas carry more weight under this system.

Under a popular vote, everyone's vote would count equally, no matter what their political leaning.

Quit bitching about a tried and tested piece of leglislature that has existed for ages, rather, back Hillary in 2020 and bitch about Bernie Saunders scuppering her candicacy, well him and the macedonians. Twat       
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 06, 2017, 10:45:43 AM
"The morons in rural areas"? Poorly worded J70.

I presume you mean 'morons in rural areas carry more weight than morons in urban areas'? I know you didn't mean people in rural areas are morons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2017, 10:57:16 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 06, 2017, 10:45:43 AM
"The morons in rural areas"? Poorly worded J70.

I presume you mean 'morons in rural areas carry more weight than morons in urban areas'? I know you didn't mean people in rural areas are morons.

Read the posts.

I was responding to stew's use of the word "morons" to describe people on LA and New York (I live in NYC myself).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2017, 10:58:26 AM
Quote from: stew on September 06, 2017, 02:52:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2017, 11:15:34 PM
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2017, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.

This was never set up to be republican friendly, it was devised so that people in rural areas would feel like their vote counted even if a bunch of morons in LA and New York voted a different way than they did, their vote mattered and it is a brilliant piece of legislation no matter who benefits politically.

Its just that the votes of the morons in rural areas carry more weight under this system.

Under a popular vote, everyone's vote would count equally, no matter what their political leaning.

Quit bitching about a tried and tested piece of leglislature that has existed for ages, rather, back Hillary in 2020 and bitch about Bernie Saunders scuppering her candicacy, well him and the macedonians. Twat     

Who's bitching?

I'm discussing the merits of an alternative.

And longevity and tradition are not, by themselves, adequate defenses of any process or system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 06, 2017, 10:59:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2017, 10:57:16 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 06, 2017, 10:45:43 AM
"The morons in rural areas"? Poorly worded J70.

I presume you mean 'morons in rural areas carry more weight than morons in urban areas'? I know you didn't mean people in rural areas are morons.

Read the posts.

I was responding to stew's use of the word "morons" to describe people on LA and New York (I live in NYC myself).

Ah, fair enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2017, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 06, 2017, 10:59:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2017, 10:57:16 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 06, 2017, 10:45:43 AM
"The morons in rural areas"? Poorly worded J70.

I presume you mean 'morons in rural areas carry more weight than morons in urban areas'? I know you didn't mean people in rural areas are morons.

Read the posts.

I was responding to stew's use of the word "morons" to describe people on LA and New York (I live in NYC myself).

Ah, fair enough.

I grew up in rural Donegal (even in Donegal I was considered "from the bog"!).

My in-laws, fine people, are from and mostly live in the rural western US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:15:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.


So following that logic,  the unionist majority in the North should be allowed to lord it over their Nationalist brethren given their numerical superiority?

Did you read my last sentence all the way to the end?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 05:03:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:40:00 PM
All kidding aside, if we had an election based on a simple majority, would the progressives on here agree to voters having to present a valid state or national id in order to vote?

Ah, the old "voter fraud is a thing" trope.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on September 06, 2017, 06:40:10 PM
God Bless America - unless you're black

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJDHs0YVoAAr9E9.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 07:50:17 PM
"Land of the free" my ass.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2017, 07:54:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 05:03:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:40:00 PM
All kidding aside, if we had an election based on a simple majority, would the progressives on here agree to voters having to present a valid state or national id in order to vote?

Ah, the old "voter fraud is a thing" trope.

I take it that's a no
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 07:54:57 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21231906_1440806562673351_2826721837189317262_n.jpg?oh=f35ed2de3c62140328cdede067c7ca7a&oe=5A5FFF88)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on September 06, 2017, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on September 06, 2017, 06:40:10 PM
God Bless America - unless you're black

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJDHs0YVoAAr9E9.jpg)
Appalling
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2017, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:15:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.


So following that logic,  the unionist majority in the North should be allowed to lord it over their Nationalist brethren given their numerical superiority?

Did you read my last sentence all the way to the end?

Yes.....it seems like that is what you are advocating for
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 06, 2017, 08:16:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 04, 2017, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 04, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Stew,
The will of the people, or the result of the electoral college system?

The system is the system and it was the same for each candidate

The Democrats actually have a huge advantage when it comes to the electoral college......just shows what a monumental fvck up the Clinton campaign was

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-2016-race-an-electoral-college-edge-for-democrats/2015/03/15/855f2792-cb3c-11e4-a2a7-9517a3a70506_story.html?utm_term=.b0a91a499977


Whitey- I'm on your side here- you play the game by the rules. However - the will of the people was actually not Trump.

As far as the advantage in the college system, its gerrymandered both ways in different places. Neither main party is blameless.

At this point guessing the next step US politics is a fools game, though Cambridge Analytica may have a fair sense of whats next. I admire the hypocrisy of the tech firms that played such a huge part in the election results up and down the US then take issue with the results. Money in ads displaying fake news of all colors and hues was gladly taken to the bank.

I think we are just about at the stage where the presidency is now buyable, based on a candidate that can do as they are told, and just not care about policy, as long as they sound like they mean it (for either side as long as they pay well)

The current president of the united states  actually said in public during the campaign "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters" probably one of the most factually accurate statements he made during the process.

is there a new path ahead- this one has been broken for a while?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 09:39:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2017, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:15:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.


So following that logic,  the unionist majority in the North should be allowed to lord it over their Nationalist brethren given their numerical superiority?

Did you read my last sentence all the way to the end?

Yes.....it seems like that is what you are advocating for

Then apparently you can't read.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2017, 09:57:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 09:39:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2017, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 05, 2017, 11:15:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
But sane people are in the majority, as evidenced by the whopping 2 million more who voted for Hillary than Trump.  The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe. We're talking about the USA, not Northern Ireland.


So following that logic,  the unionist majority in the North should be allowed to lord it over their Nationalist brethren given their numerical superiority?

Did you read my last sentence all the way to the end?

Yes.....it seems like that is what you are advocating for

Then apparently you can't read.

I can read very well

"The idea that you have to give the minority a veto in case the majority gets it wrong is tripe"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 10:21:49 PM
That wasn't my last sentence in that post. Go back and read it again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 11:55:27 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21432691_1924327211140003_1424420613422695370_n.jpg?oh=bce61bf56ab8553f32fd7e7d7bd234d8&oe=5A4D75D7)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 07, 2017, 03:15:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 10:21:49 PM
That wasn't my last sentence in that post. Go back and read it again.

I did but its unintelligible.  The majority will always force their beliefs on the minority

It happens the world over
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 07, 2017, 04:29:00 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 06, 2017, 06:40:10 PM
God Bless America - unless you're black

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJDHs0YVoAAr9E9.jpg)
need a bit of context here maybe he matched a description of someone identified as a shooter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 07, 2017, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 06, 2017, 06:40:10 PM
God Bless America - unless you're black

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJDHs0YVoAAr9E9.jpg)

Sickening if true.


You got white privilege????

I know I never did but maybe the snowflakes no differently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 07, 2017, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 11:55:27 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21432691_1924327211140003_1424420613422695370_n.jpg?oh=bce61bf56ab8553f32fd7e7d7bd234d8&oe=5A4D75D7)

Eamon you do not know your ass from your elbow son, you really don't, this is so full of liberal opinion it is sickening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 07, 2017, 11:02:06 AM
How do you think white privilege works stew?

Do the cops tell you "we are not going to hassle or assault you because you are a white man". Does the store security guard tell you he is not going to follow you because you are a respectable looking white man? Does the hiring company say " we didn't throw out your resume because you have a white-sounding name".

Is it spelled out when someone benefits from white privilege?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 07, 2017, 12:11:03 PM
Quote from: stew on September 07, 2017, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 11:55:27 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21432691_1924327211140003_1424420613422695370_n.jpg?oh=bce61bf56ab8553f32fd7e7d7bd234d8&oe=5A4D75D7)

Eamon you do not know your ass from your elbow son, you really don't, this is so full of liberal opinion it is sickening.
Looks like those 15 facts really pissed you off... ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 07, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 07, 2017, 12:11:03 PM
Quote from: stew on September 07, 2017, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 11:55:27 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21432691_1924327211140003_1424420613422695370_n.jpg?oh=bce61bf56ab8553f32fd7e7d7bd234d8&oe=5A4D75D7)

Eamon you do not know your ass from your elbow son, you really don't, this is so full of liberal opinion it is sickening.
Looks like those 15 facts really pissed you off... ;D


Sidley they did not piss me off, they are typically inaccurate points from the left, you seem to take pleasure in me being pissed off, strange because we do not know each other.

Talk to me when you are eamon can actually post facts, no opinion saturated drivel, Hmm K. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 07, 2017, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 07, 2017, 04:29:00 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 06, 2017, 06:40:10 PM
God Bless America - unless you're black


need a bit of context here maybe he matched a description of someone identified as a shooter.

Maybe he did it, and it's all a cunning plot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 01:09:46 PM
Las Vegas PD have issued a statement, and it sounds a bit different to be honest. They responded to a call about an active shooter, he was crouched behind a slot machine, and when the cops came he ran. According to them at least.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/las-vegas-pd-michael-bennett-seahawks/6oeh02ig5m7p161po69dbb3dj (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/las-vegas-pd-michael-bennett-seahawks/6oeh02ig5m7p161po69dbb3dj)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 07, 2017, 01:11:50 PM
Quote from: stew on September 07, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
Sidley they did not piss me off
I don't think your denial is fooling anybody, stewpid...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 07, 2017, 01:15:21 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 01:09:46 PM
Las Vegas PD have issued a statement, and it sounds a bit different to be honest. They responded to a call about an active shooter, he was crouched behind a slot machine, and when the cops came he ran. According to them at least.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/las-vegas-pd-michael-bennett-seahawks/6oeh02ig5m7p161po69dbb3dj (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/las-vegas-pd-michael-bennett-seahawks/6oeh02ig5m7p161po69dbb3dj)

According to them it happened in a casino.

Which presumably means lots of cameras.

Let's see if the police release the footage.

And of course their body cams were off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 01:20:33 PM
the body cams were not off. One officer's body cam was off. There are 128 cameras apparently.

I don't think the PD will be able to sidle this one off.  If they did something wrong, they'll pay.


I wonder though, is this symptomatic of the breakdown of trust, between Police and the Black community, rather than profiling per se.

Bennett is very vocal on the National Anthem thing, the racism in America etc. I wonder did he panic when he saw the cops coming, because he's so attuned to the problems in the rest of the country. He was hardly the only black man there. If he crouched down, and ran when the cops came, and ended up going over a wall with a Police Officer, it's not surprising they were tough on him.

If he was just sitting there, and they did this to him, then they have a lot of questions to answer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 07, 2017, 01:38:02 PM
My mistake. It's says the body cam of the arresting officer was switched off.

Well hopefully the rest clearly demonstrate what happened, whatever way it went down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 07, 2017, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 07, 2017, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 07, 2017, 04:29:00 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 06, 2017, 06:40:10 PM
God Bless America - unless you're black


need a bit of context here maybe he matched a description of someone identified as a shooter.

Maybe he did it, and it's all a cunning plot

Saw your post about this last night Gmac and scanned for a news report that suggested this. I could not find one. Is this your report?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 07, 2017, 04:44:08 PM
Anyone who's lived here for more than 10 minutes know you just fvckin do what the cops tell you.

There's no pleading, negotiation or plamasing......you MUST obey direct orders from the police

A colleague was showing me a local newspaper article where a wealthy, white woman (and Republican donor too) in his town got tazered twice by a locals cop over a noise complaint at her husbands 40th birthday. 

Whenevr I have been stopped it is "yes officer, no officer, I didn't realize I was going that fast officer". Even if I'm in the right, I go along because there's no point in arguing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 04:51:00 PM
Which is a bit sad when you think about it.

Did you see the woman in Utah, the nurse? That was despicable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 07, 2017, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 04:51:00 PM
Which is a bit sad when you think about it.

Did you see the woman in Utah, the nurse? That was despicable.

Yes.....that was terrible and he deservedly got fired. Going forward the cops will have less absolute power as everything can now be captured on a cell phone. Really cops are a law unto themselves and that is wrong.

In 25 years living here I haven't had one "bad" interaction with the police, and I think most law abiding people wouldn't have either.  But I'm not black and I don't live in a high crime are, so my experience are very sanitized compared to what someone living in an inner city would have

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 05:02:08 PM
I had my 4 years in Arizona and apart from a speeding ticket I never saw anything either. The closest experience I had with them was drinking pints in the Dubliner with a couple of them, and they in uniform!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 07, 2017, 05:14:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 05:02:08 PM
I had my 4 years in Arizona and apart from a speeding ticket I never saw anything either. The closest experience I had with them was drinking pints in the Dubliner with a couple of them, and they in uniform!

While armed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 05:15:40 PM
Yes, them. Not me :) But then again in Arizona, everyone was armed apart from me :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 07, 2017, 05:22:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 04:51:00 PM
Which is a bit sad when you think about it.

Did you see the woman in Utah, the nurse? That was despicable.

This was a very interesting case. I had a little online discussion with a friend and we decided to take it offline and meet in person to talk about it. Her husband is a Sherriff's Deputy and she is a lawyer in the DAs office and very liberal leaning. We disagreed fundamentally on this case.

Like Whitey said - anyone who has lived here for 10 minutes (or anyone with any common sense) should say yes sir right away sir at all times with a police officer. Primarily because as a citizen the police officer's instructions to you MUST be carried out. These are normal instructions in every day life. Pull over, show me your license, get down, put your hands behind your back etc.... No reason for anyone to disobey a law enforcement officer. My friends point of view on this was that no matter how professional and articulate and well trained the nurse was (particularly in the face of a very poorly trained police officer) that her refusal to draw the blood sample was disobedient of the law enforcement officer - and her bigger point was that this emboldens people to continue to be disobedient of law enforcement, which essentially perpetuates the cycle and potentially puts her husband in more danger than his job already entails.

My argument was that this lady wasn't disobeying law enforcement as a citizen, rather as a medical professional in care of a patient. At which stage does the medical professional trump the law enforcement professional? My opinion is as soon as the patient enters the care of the medical professional. I also suggested that its her husbands poorly trained colleagues who are endangering his life - not necessarily this nurse. I saw her point, she saw mine - we moved on.

That being said - many other things for which cops are being bashed around right now, and which ARE perpetuating the civil disobedience of law enforcement are the result of people not doing what they are supposed to do - which is generally comply with the law and instructions of a officer of the law.

Cops have made some major f**k ups at best and there have been some downright atrocious actions, particularly in recent times. There's no shirking that  - but my conversation with this person made me re-consider a lot of the cop bashing that is going on. There are a whole bunch of them out there looking after our communities in many many more ways than there are those who are terrorizing and killing people.

Michael Bennett should have done what he was told. I hope the cop didn't say what he said to him and I do believe (and hope) that this was not racial profiling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 05:26:30 PM
I agree with all of that. I agree with you about the nurse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 07, 2017, 06:14:10 PM
Quote from: stew on September 07, 2017, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 06, 2017, 11:55:27 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21432691_1924327211140003_1424420613422695370_n.jpg?oh=bce61bf56ab8553f32fd7e7d7bd234d8&oe=5A4D75D7)

Eamon you do not know your ass from your elbow son, you really don't, this is so full of liberal opinion it is sickening.

This is what conservatives have come to. Tell them the Earth is not flat and they complain about "liberal bias."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 07, 2017, 06:16:58 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 07, 2017, 05:22:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 07, 2017, 04:51:00 PM
Which is a bit sad when you think about it.

Did you see the woman in Utah, the nurse? That was despicable.

This was a very interesting case. I had a little online discussion with a friend and we decided to take it offline and meet in person to talk about it. Her husband is a Sherriff's Deputy and she is a lawyer in the DAs office and very liberal leaning. We disagreed fundamentally on this case.

Like Whitey said - anyone who has lived here for 10 minutes (or anyone with any common sense) should say yes sir right away sir at all times with a police officer. Primarily because as a citizen the police officer's instructions to you MUST be carried out. These are normal instructions in every day life. Pull over, show me your license, get down, put your hands behind your back etc.... No reason for anyone to disobey a law enforcement officer. My friends point of view on this was that no matter how professional and articulate and well trained the nurse was (particularly in the face of a very poorly trained police officer) that her refusal to draw the blood sample was disobedient of the law enforcement officer - and her bigger point was that this emboldens people to continue to be disobedient of law enforcement, which essentially perpetuates the cycle and potentially puts her husband in more danger than his job already entails.

My argument was that this lady wasn't disobeying law enforcement as a citizen, rather as a medical professional in care of a patient. At which stage does the medical professional trump the law enforcement professional? My opinion is as soon as the patient enters the care of the medical professional. I also suggested that its her husbands poorly trained colleagues who are endangering his life - not necessarily this nurse. I saw her point, she saw mine - we moved on.

That being said - many other things for which cops are being bashed around right now, and which ARE perpetuating the civil disobedience of law enforcement are the result of people not doing what they are supposed to do - which is generally comply with the law and instructions of a officer of the law.

Cops have made some major f**k ups at best and there have been some downright atrocious actions, particularly in recent times. There's no shirking that  - but my conversation with this person made me re-consider a lot of the cop bashing that is going on. There are a whole bunch of them out there looking after our communities in many many more ways than there are those who are terrorizing and killing people.

Michael Bennett should have done what he was told. I hope the cop didn't say what he said to him and I do believe (and hope) that this was not racial profiling.

I don't buy this doctrine of porcine infallibility. In the UK people argue with cops all the time but at no stage does anyone feel that their life is at risk or that the cop is going to violently assault them and unlawfully arrest them. If cops are above the law then we don't have the rule of law anymore.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 07, 2017, 07:36:59 PM
I don't buy that comment at all Eammon, no one mentioned infallibility in it's truest sense of the word. I can't believe I am going to write these next words - being somewhat liberal leaning myself but what you just stated is a prime example of an extreme (i.e. infallibile) mixed with an insult (porcine) to make a point which to be honest does little to advance the issues that need to be addressed and is becoming more and more prevalent in liberal discussions. Conversations based in the extreme are the root of many of our problems when it comes to good, honest, political discourse. I've always felt that the liberal point of view was one that is not and should not be rooted in hate, or smugness - but your post below kinda blew that out of the water a little bit.

If a police officer tells me to shoot my wife - I am going to resist, frankly I am scared of her and if I miss I am fucked for the rest of my days.

If a police officer tells me to put my hands up - I am going to comply.

If I get pulled over  - I am going to comply

Law enforcement DOES need to be respected. There's no dancing around that at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 07, 2017, 08:44:52 PM
Respect is earned. Respect demanded at gunpoint is not respect. It's terror. In a civilized country we should not be facing a bigger threat from our own police than from jihadists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 07, 2017, 08:51:31 PM
Again - "respect demanded at gun point" is an extreme.

Are you suggesting that law enforcement does not need to be obeyed? Are you advocating anarchy and more chaos?

To be clear, I am advocating for better training for police, and civil obedience.

I'd revise your last sentence to suggest that we should not be facing a bigger threat from the break down of civility, institution, poverty on our streets and how this is being handled by poorly trained understaffed police forces - than from jihadists.

If you think there's a singular causation and blame here - then that's symptomatic of the problem.

This is an insane time in history in this country - and when it's playing out against the backdrop of the current state of politics and leadership, well in my opinion that makes their actions all the more outrageous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on September 07, 2017, 08:54:35 PM
Puck I hear what your saying.  But WRT to the nurse case,  it is my understanding, and i could be wrong here, the cop was asking her to break the law.  Ie the cop needed a warrant to take the patients blood.  That is not disobedience.  That is abiding by the law
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 07, 2017, 09:02:13 PM
And that is why I 100% side with the nurse. For sure. It could be argued that the sample would have been thrown out, so she should have just done it - but I disagree with that opinion. She did this as a professional in her field, not civil disobedience of a law officer.

We are on the same page RE: The Nurse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 07, 2017, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 07, 2017, 08:54:35 PM
Puck I hear what your saying.  But WRT to the nurse case,  it is my understanding, and i could be wrong here, the cop was asking her to break the law.  Ie the cop needed a warrant to take the patients blood.  That is not disobedience.  That is abiding by the law

That case seems to be a very isolated incident.  In 25 years living here, I have never heard of that happening before, and I play very close attention to the news.  The blood sample would have been inadmissable as evidence even if she had drawn it for him as it was obtained without a warrant.

I would be interested to know how many medical professional get arrested in a typical year for refusing to act illegally on behalf of the police....my guess would be that you could count them on one hand if any even exist.

I havent  read the specifics on this case.....was there a fatality involved?

Was the "patient" a repeat drunk driver?

Was there a reasonable suspicion that the "patient" was feigning unconsciousness to avoid getting bagged?  (I know someone who did this)

While not absolving the officer from his actions, I would like to know more about the background
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on September 07, 2017, 09:10:31 PM
Agree.  She should have told the cop if he thinks its ok without the warrant he should take it himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 07, 2017, 09:16:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 07, 2017, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 07, 2017, 08:54:35 PM
Puck I hear what your saying.  But WRT to the nurse case,  it is my understanding, and i could be wrong here, the cop was asking her to break the law.  Ie the cop needed a warrant to take the patients blood.  That is not disobedience.  That is abiding by the law

That case seems to be a very isolated incident.  In 25 years living here, I have never heard of that happening before, and I play very close attention to the news.  The blood sample would have been inadmissable as evidence even if she had drawn it for him as it was obtained without a warrant.

I would be interested to know how many medical professional get arrested in a typical year for refusing to act illegally on behalf of the police....my guess would be that you could count them on one hand if any even exist.

I havent  read the specifics on this case.....was there a fatality involved?

Was the "patient" a repeat drunk driver?

Was there a reasonable suspicion that the "patient" was feigning unconsciousness to avoid getting bagged?  (I know someone who did this)

While not absolving the officer from his actions, I would like to know more about the background

Questions which while they add color are in this instance -
Irrelevant, EDIT: Not totally irrelevant.
Irrelevant, but no
and
Irrelevant, but no.

The state of Utah had enacted 3 conditions under which the law enforcement could request, and be given - a blood sample. The officer had none of them. He only needed one. This was explained to him by the nurse, by her colleague - and then finally by her boss very clearly, professionally and politely. He was presented with the documentation. He lost his temper.

I actually believe the patient was the victim in a car wreck which left another person (presumed responsible party) dead. The police officer states he was asking for a blood draw to protect the victim. In either case - the law prevented the draw.

Puzzled by the claim to pay close attention to the news, not sure that's a unique characteristic?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 07, 2017, 09:27:08 PM
I'm curious as to why the cop was such a pr1ck....what triggered him to act in such a manner or has he always been an abusive suckhead
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 07, 2017, 09:36:45 PM
QuoteI actually believe the patient was the victim in a car wreck which left another person (presumed responsible party) dead.

Correct - and somewhat ironically - a reserve police officer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 07, 2017, 09:48:26 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 07, 2017, 08:51:31 PM
Again - "respect demanded at gun point" is an extreme.

Are you suggesting that law enforcement does not need to be obeyed? Are you advocating anarchy and more chaos?

To be clear, I am advocating for better training for police, and civil obedience.

I'd revise your last sentence to suggest that we should not be facing a bigger threat from the break down of civility, institution, poverty on our streets and how this is being handled by poorly trained understaffed police forces - than from jihadists.

If you think there's a singular causation and blame here - then that's symptomatic of the problem.

This is an insane time in history in this country - and when it's playing out against the backdrop of the current state of politics and leadership, well in my opinion that makes their actions all the more outrageous.

I'm advocating the rule of law. Everyone should respect it, police included.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 08, 2017, 12:17:08 AM
You may go and live on The Beach so, with Leo DiCaprio.

At some stage the law needs enforced. No point suggesting otherwise. Poor form to suggest 'The Police' as a whole aren't respecting the law

Until people step back from the brink the conversation will remain "Them and Us"... Wonder where we've had that conversation before!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 08, 2017, 01:33:49 AM
I did not say that the law should not be enforced. That is the precise opposite of what I said.

Nor did I say that all police do not respect the law. But it's reasonable to say that given their power of life and death, their fear-based reactions, their lack of training in non lethal force, and their near zero accountability, at this point the police are a bigger threat to public safety than the terrorists.

Lifetime odds of being killed by:
Police officer: 1 in 8,359
Foreign born terrorist: 1 in 45,808
Refugee terrorist: 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorist: 1 in 138,324, 873

Source (http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents-2017-1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 08, 2017, 02:51:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 08, 2017, 01:33:49 AM
I did not say that the law should not be enforced. That is the precise opposite of what I said.

Nor did I say that all police do not respect the law. But it's reasonable to say that given their power of life and death, their fear-based reactions, their lack of training in non lethal force, and their near zero accountability, at this point the police are a bigger threat to public safety than the terrorists.

Lifetime odds of being killed by:
Police officer: 1 in 8,359
Foreign born terrorist: 1 in 45,808
Refugee terrorist: 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorist: 1 in 138,324, 873

Source (http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents-2017-1)

What are the lifetime odds of being killed by a police officer if you just obey the fvckin law?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 08, 2017, 04:09:52 AM
Exactly the same. Mathematically

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 08, 2017, 07:23:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 08, 2017, 01:33:49 AM
I did not say that the law should not be enforced. That is the precise opposite of what I said.

Nor did I say that all police do not respect the law. But it's reasonable to say that given their power of life and death, their fear-based reactions, their lack of training in non lethal force, and their near zero accountability, at this point the police are a bigger threat to public safety than the terrorists.

Lifetime odds of being killed by:
Police officer: 1 in 8,359
Foreign born terrorist: 1 in 45,808
Refugee terrorist: 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorist: 1 in 138,324, 873

Source (http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents-2017-1)

So you want all illegal aliens to be held to the standard of the rule of law then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on September 08, 2017, 10:37:05 AM
The background to the case that I have heard is -

there was one fatality, a suspect that the cop was pursuing in a high speed chase.

Suspect drove his car into an oncoming truck/van, during the pursuit, killing himself and injuring the truckdriver.

The twist comes with this - the chase actually occurred in a built up, high population area. The local PD's own policies prohibit engaging in high speed pursuits in this area because of the high likelihood of accidents like this.

The premise then is, that the officer realised he had broken policy, and then decided to check if the truck driver was DUI - if so, he could pass it off as a regular traffic accident rather than one he "caused" himself by engaging in the pursuit.

All that is not proven, and my source is the "Majority Report" which is a left leaning radio show, so take it with whatever grains of salt.

Whatever the circumstances, the nurse was following guidelines which clearly protect the constitutional rights of a patient. I find it highly ironic that so many on the right, who claim the Constitution as sacred, have clearly no problem with it being violated as long as it is a law officer doing so.

That is not a dig at you Puck, I understand where you are coming from, but I do believe that blind adherence to the police's authority without question is a one way ticket to a fascist state. Power corrupts, the police are human beings, and if you give them basically unlimited power (such as Whitey's example of not arguing even if he knew he was right) then you are not going to get a good outcome.

I'm also going to make an assumption that the vast majority of US living or former US posters here are white. As such, hearing you all saying that you never had any trouble with the police in the US, and by that extrapolating that minorities should just obey the cops, like ye did,  is like listening to a Monty Python sketch. But not in a funny way.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 08, 2017, 10:42:06 AM
easytiger, I'm not sure this is a 'constitutional right' per se. It appears to be, rather, a sort of memorandum of understanding between the hospitals in Utah, and the Police. I'm not sure, for example, that an FBI agent would be bound by it, or if it is the same in Arizona or anywhere else.


"Wubbels presented the officers with a printout of the hospital's policy for drawing blood and said their request did not meet the criteria. Hospital policy specified that before obtaining a blood sample, police needed a judge's order or the patient's consent, or the patient needed to be under arrest.
The university and Salt Lake City police had agreed to the policy more than a year ago, but "the officers here appeared to be unaware of" it during the July incident, Wubbels' attorney, Karra Porter, said Friday."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on September 08, 2017, 10:59:56 AM
I'm sure that while it would not be "per se", the hospital would have concerns that they would be open to charges of violating patients constitutional rights if they did not institute the policy that they have.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on September 08, 2017, 11:31:25 AM
I'm sure that's why they did it. Either way the cop was an asshole.  Ironic that he was also a part time medic!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on September 08, 2017, 12:49:45 PM
See Fox News has disappeared of the Sky platform in the UK.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 08, 2017, 02:32:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 08, 2017, 02:51:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 08, 2017, 01:33:49 AM
I did not say that the law should not be enforced. That is the precise opposite of what I said.

Nor did I say that all police do not respect the law. But it's reasonable to say that given their power of life and death, their fear-based reactions, their lack of training in non lethal force, and their near zero accountability, at this point the police are a bigger threat to public safety than the terrorists.

Lifetime odds of being killed by:
Police officer: 1 in 8,359
Foreign born terrorist: 1 in 45,808
Refugee terrorist: 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorist: 1 in 138,324, 873

Source (http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents-2017-1)

What are the lifetime odds of being killed by a police officer if you just obey the fvckin law?
In America 10x the Irish rate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 08, 2017, 06:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 08, 2017, 02:51:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 08, 2017, 01:33:49 AM
I did not say that the law should not be enforced. That is the precise opposite of what I said.

Nor did I say that all police do not respect the law. But it's reasonable to say that given their power of life and death, their fear-based reactions, their lack of training in non lethal force, and their near zero accountability, at this point the police are a bigger threat to public safety than the terrorists.

Lifetime odds of being killed by:
Police officer: 1 in 8,359
Foreign born terrorist: 1 in 45,808
Refugee terrorist: 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorist: 1 in 138,324, 873

Source (http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents-2017-1)

What are the lifetime odds of being killed by a police officer if you just obey the fvckin law?

It varies by skin colour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 08, 2017, 08:31:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2017, 02:32:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 08, 2017, 02:51:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 08, 2017, 01:33:49 AM
I did not say that the law should not be enforced. That is the precise opposite of what I said.

Nor did I say that all police do not respect the law. But it's reasonable to say that given their power of life and death, their fear-based reactions, their lack of training in non lethal force, and their near zero accountability, at this point the police are a bigger threat to public safety than the terrorists.

Lifetime odds of being killed by:
Police officer: 1 in 8,359
Foreign born terrorist: 1 in 45,808
Refugee terrorist: 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorist: 1 in 138,324, 873

Source (http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents-2017-1)

What are the lifetime odds of being killed by a police officer if you just obey the fvckin law?
In America 10x the Irish rate

There's lies, damn lies and there's statistics.....

The town I grew up in Ireland has had 6 murders in the past 10 years

The town I live in in Massachusetts has had 0 murders in the past 10 years....and has half the population

Statistically I have a 1200% greater chance of getting murdered in my hometown than in the town I currently live in.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 08, 2017, 10:04:16 PM
I used to live in Sunnyvale, something like the 6th safest city in America. That must mean America doesn't have a crime problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on September 08, 2017, 10:15:44 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 08, 2017, 11:31:25 AM
I'm sure that's why they did it. Either way the cop was an asshole.  Ironic that he was also a part time medic!

Correct, that cop was a complete arsehole.

I hope she sues the PD, the only way some of these tubes will learn is if they are raked over the coals, if he costs them money, he will be raked over said coals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 09, 2017, 02:07:26 PM
Mathematics Whitey mathematics.
Not even close to being correct
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 09, 2017, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 09, 2017, 02:07:26 PM
Mathematics Whitey mathematics.
Not even close to being correct

Haha...I know...it's 300 %
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on September 09, 2017, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 09, 2017, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 09, 2017, 02:07:26 PM
Mathematics Whitey mathematics.
Not even close to being correct

Haha...I know...it's 300 %

Nope.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 09, 2017, 07:28:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 09, 2017, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 09, 2017, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 09, 2017, 02:07:26 PM
Mathematics Whitey mathematics.
Not even close to being correct

Haha...I know...it's 300 %

Nope.

Well help me out then...its almost 30 years since I took statistics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: manfromdelmonte on September 10, 2017, 09:59:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 09, 2017, 07:28:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 09, 2017, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 09, 2017, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 09, 2017, 02:07:26 PM
Mathematics Whitey mathematics.
Not even close to being correct

Haha...I know...it's 300 %

Nope.

Well help me out then...its almost 30 years since I took statistics
they've a new course down in Templemore called Garda Statistics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 24, 2017, 04:04:04 PM
This is a cracker of an article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2017/09/22/is-trump-mentally-ill-or-is-america-psychiatrists-weigh-in/

In his new book, "Twilight of American Sanity,"psychiatrist Allen Frances asserts that Trump is not mentally ill — we are. "Calling Trump crazy allows us to avoid confronting the craziness in our society," he writes. "We can't expect to change Trump, but we must work to undo the societal delusions that created him." And those delusions, Kurt Andersen contends in"Fantasyland," have been around for a long time. "People tend to regard the Trump moment — this post-truth, alternative facts moment — as some inexplicable and crazy new American phenomenon," he writes. "In fact, what's happening is just the ultimate extrapolation and expression of attitudes and instincts that have made America exceptional for its entire history."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 24, 2017, 06:18:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 08, 2017, 12:49:45 PM
See Fox News has disappeared of the Sky platform in the UK.
Lack of viewers the reason given yet AI Jazeera,CGTN is still on their platform..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2017, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 24, 2017, 06:18:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 08, 2017, 12:49:45 PM
See Fox News has disappeared of the Sky platform in the UK.
Lack of viewers the reason given yet AI Jazeera,CGTN is still on their platform..

You do realize that the same people own Sky and Fox, right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2017, 03:52:16 PM
Weiner is going up the river for 21 months.

Such a f**king idiot/sc**bag, and such a waste of a career.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2017, 04:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2017, 03:52:16 PM
Weiner is going up the river for 21 months.

Such a f**king idiot/sc**bag, and such a waste of a career.
I feel sorry for his family
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2017, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2017, 04:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2017, 03:52:16 PM
Weiner is going up the river for 21 months.

Such a f**king idiot/sc**bag, and such a waste of a career.
I feel sorry for his family

Of course.

What's the young kid he included in one of the photos going to think about all this as he grows up?

At least the (ex?) wife, Huma, can decide for herself on accompanying him through all of this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 25, 2017, 04:31:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2017, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 24, 2017, 06:18:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 08, 2017, 12:49:45 PM
See Fox News has disappeared of the Sky platform in the UK.
Lack of viewers the reason given yet AI Jazeera,CGTN is still on their platform..

You do realize that the same people own Sky and Fox, right?
Yes i do and i don't believe the reason given.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2017, 04:35:25 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 25, 2017, 04:31:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2017, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 24, 2017, 06:18:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 08, 2017, 12:49:45 PM
See Fox News has disappeared of the Sky platform in the UK.
Lack of viewers the reason given yet AI Jazeera,CGTN is still on their platform..

You do realize that the same people own Sky and Fox, right?
Yes i do and i don't believe the reason given.

Neither do most.

Its all about them buying up the balance of the Sky shares.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 27, 2017, 01:59:49 PM
Donnie Dickhead's pick to win the Alabama GOP Senate runoff Luther Strange lost last night.

He then went on and deleted 3 tweets he posted yesterday encouraging people to vote for him and claiming it was his endorsement that had him soaring in the polls.

(https://assets.rbl.ms/11247149/980x.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 27, 2017, 03:51:09 PM
Moore who won this is actually further to the right than dons guy , the divide is getting bigger
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2017, 03:56:28 PM

The rich want everything. The next crash will be biblical

   https://www.ft.com/content/79538ba6-a35b-11e7-b797-b61809486fe2

   American corporations would see their tax rate cut below many of their counterparts elsewhere, under a sweeping White House and Congressional plan that aims to slash the corporate tax to 20 per cent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2017, 05:03:26 PM
(http://www.ukprogressive.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/lucy-football.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on September 27, 2017, 05:34:40 PM
And you know what happens next.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2017, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2017, 03:56:28 PM

The rich want everything. The next crash will be biblical

   https://www.ft.com/content/79538ba6-a35b-11e7-b797-b61809486fe2

   American corporations would see their tax rate cut below many of their counterparts elsewhere, under a sweeping White House and Congressional plan that aims to slash the corporate tax to 20 per cent.

You do know that US corp tax rates are among the highest in the developed world?

Bill Clinton is even in favor of lowering them, having been the one to jack them up to 35%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2017, 06:14:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2017, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2017, 03:56:28 PM

The rich want everything. The next crash will be biblical

   https://www.ft.com/content/79538ba6-a35b-11e7-b797-b61809486fe2

   American corporations would see their tax rate cut below many of their counterparts elsewhere, under a sweeping White House and Congressional plan that aims to slash the corporate tax to 20 per cent.

You do know that US corp tax rates are among the highest in the developed world?

Bill Clinton is even in favor of lowering them, having been the one to jack them up to 35%
Most don't pay 35% and profits as a % of GDP are already are record highs
on the back of wage repression, Whitey
The US will go down the toilet.
You can always go back to Mayo I spose

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2017, 06:17:33 PM
What's the argument against lowering tax rates?

I can see how one could object to making them TOO low, but Ireland seems to have benefited from the low corporate tax rate, while the EU average top rate is well below the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 27, 2017, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2017, 06:14:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2017, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2017, 03:56:28 PM

The rich want everything. The next crash will be biblical

   https://www.ft.com/content/79538ba6-a35b-11e7-b797-b61809486fe2

   American corporations would see their tax rate cut below many of their counterparts elsewhere, under a sweeping White House and Congressional plan that aims to slash the corporate tax to 20 per cent.

You do know that US corp tax rates are among the highest in the developed world?

Bill Clinton is even in favor of lowering them, having been the one to jack them up to 35%
Most don't pay 35% and profits as a % of GDP are already are record highs
on the back of wage repression, Whitey
The US will go down the toilet.
You can always go back to Mayo I spose
how much is the dole now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2017, 07:17:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2017, 06:17:33 PM
What's the argument against lowering tax rates?

I can see how one could object to making them TOO low, but Ireland seems to have benefited from the low corporate tax rate, while the EU average top rate is well below the US.

Depends whose taxes you're lowering. If you lower taxes on working people then you get more spending and a stronger economy. If you lower taxes on corporations then it just lowers government revenues that have to be made up by taxes on working people, and there's no evidence that lowering said taxes results in any extra investment. Kansas tried the low corporate tax experiment and it was a disaster (https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2017/06/07/the-great-kansas-tax-cut-experiment-crashes-and-burns/#4fce09245508). Ireland benefitted initially from the 12.5% rate by attracting inward investment but the price the country's paying is now underfunded public services and infrastructure. If you're a small place like the Cayman Islands then you can probably get away with a scam like that but supporting a larger country of 5 or 6 million is a different story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2017, 09:03:03 PM
More here:

High income tax rate deterring companies from moving to Ireland, says Irish recruitment firm (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/high-income-tax-rate-deterring-companies-from-moving-to-ireland-says-irish-recruitment-firm-807383.html)

Quote"The language, career opportunities, education and the standard of living is attractive but our tax rates are a real stumbling block."

Ireland's top marginal tax rate of 55% is considerably higher than other EU countries with Germany's rate 10% lower.

Lower taxes on companies leads to higher taxes on the people who work for them. That's no way to fund a state with an advanced economy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on September 28, 2017, 07:57:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2017, 09:03:03 PM
More here:

High income tax rate deterring companies from moving to Ireland, says Irish recruitment firm (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/high-income-tax-rate-deterring-companies-from-moving-to-ireland-says-irish-recruitment-firm-807383.html)

Quote"The language, career opportunities, education and the standard of living is attractive but our tax rates are a real stumbling block."

Ireland's top marginal tax rate of 55% is considerably higher than other EU countries with Germany's rate 10% lower.

Lower taxes on companies leads to higher taxes on the people who work for them. That's no way to fund a state with an advanced economy.
The high earners in Ireland have among the highest taxes in the OECD.
The low earners have among the lowest.
The middle-earners are slightly above average (more you earn more out of kilter you get).

The stats are that 6% of the workers earn over 100k and these people contribute 50% of the income tax take
20% earn between 50-100k and these contribute 33%
74% earn less than 50k and contribute 17% of the overall income tax take.

This is called progressive, but means the base is narrow and it's not attractive for well paid foreign executives to relocate to Ireland. The narrow base was a big part of the reason for the introduction of property and water taxes to widen the base.

Our corporation tax take per head of population is one of the highest in the EU and rising. If you don't think the 12.5% is good for Ireland, then you need your head examined. Even Sinn Fein came around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 28, 2017, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 27, 2017, 01:59:49 PM
Donnie d**khead's pick to win the Alabama GOP Senate runoff Luther Strange lost last night.

He then went on and deleted 3 tweets he posted yesterday encouraging people to vote for him and claiming it was his endorsement that had him soaring in the polls.

(https://assets.rbl.ms/11247149/980x.png)
Lucky the COVEFE act has not got through yet or he would be in bother for amending Presidential records.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on September 28, 2017, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2017, 07:17:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2017, 06:17:33 PM
What's the argument against lowering tax rates?

I can see how one could object to making them TOO low, but Ireland seems to have benefited from the low corporate tax rate, while the EU average top rate is well below the US.

Depends whose taxes you're lowering. If you lower taxes on working people then you get more spending and a stronger economy. If you lower taxes on corporations then it just lowers government revenues that have to be made up by taxes on working people, and there's no evidence that lowering said taxes results in any extra investment. Kansas tried the low corporate tax experiment and it was a disaster (https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2017/06/07/the-great-kansas-tax-cut-experiment-crashes-and-burns/#4fce09245508). Ireland benefitted initially from the 12.5% rate by attracting inward investment but the price the country's paying is now underfunded public services and infrastructure. If you're a small place like the Cayman Islands then you can probably get away with a scam like that but supporting a larger country of 5 or 6 million is a different story.

Disagree. For example, I work for a global Rx company with significant presence in NJ. In the past 5 years, we have reduced the R&D workforce by 50%, and relocated to Singapore and Switzerland, mainly for Tax employment cost reasons.

The NY and RTP pharma industry in NJ and NC was built up about 30-40 years ago due to the regions having the lowest Tax rates at that time.

Low Tax rate can create jobs.

So, I am for Tax reductions for corporations and against for individuals
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on September 28, 2017, 04:04:49 PM
Interesting Kickham. Cambridge pharma hub, South SFO pharma hub, and San Diego pharma hub were all built off the back of scientific excellence and investment in the area - at least that's what is widely believed. Can't speak for the development of RTP or NJ in particular.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 06:30:18 PM
Quote from: Hound on September 28, 2017, 07:57:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2017, 09:03:03 PM
More here:

High income tax rate deterring companies from moving to Ireland, says Irish recruitment firm (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/high-income-tax-rate-deterring-companies-from-moving-to-ireland-says-irish-recruitment-firm-807383.html)

Quote"The language, career opportunities, education and the standard of living is attractive but our tax rates are a real stumbling block."

Ireland's top marginal tax rate of 55% is considerably higher than other EU countries with Germany's rate 10% lower.

Lower taxes on companies leads to higher taxes on the people who work for them. That's no way to fund a state with an advanced economy.
The high earners in Ireland have among the highest taxes in the OECD.
The low earners have among the lowest.
The middle-earners are slightly above average (more you earn more out of kilter you get).

The stats are that 6% of the workers earn over 100k and these people contribute 50% of the income tax take
20% earn between 50-100k and these contribute 33%
74% earn less than 50k and contribute 17% of the overall income tax take.

This is called progressive, but means the base is narrow and it's not attractive for well paid foreign executives to relocate to Ireland. The narrow base was a big part of the reason for the introduction of property and water taxes to widen the base.

Our corporation tax take per head of population is one of the highest in the EU and rising. If you don't think the 12.5% is good for Ireland, then you need your head examined. Even Sinn Fein came around.

I don't doubt what you're saying but I'd like to see your source so I can read up a bit more. Willing to stand corrected....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 28, 2017, 07:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 06:30:18 PM
Willing to stand corrected....

On everything you're wrong about? There may be hope yet.

You can start by admitting what a clusterfuck obama was.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 28, 2017, 08:00:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 28, 2017, 07:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 06:30:18 PM
Willing to stand corrected....

On everything you're wrong about? There may be hope yet.

You can start by admitting what a clusterfuck obama was.

Hilarious!!

Compared to what's come since he looks like FDR!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 28, 2017, 08:00:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 28, 2017, 07:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 06:30:18 PM
Willing to stand corrected....

*************

Hilarious!!

Compared to what's come since he looks like FDR!

The ignore feature is your best friend. This board has become a lot more enjoyable since I put that clown on ignore. No point in trying to reason with him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 28, 2017, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 28, 2017, 08:00:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 28, 2017, 07:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 06:30:18 PM
Willing to stand corrected....

*************

Hilarious!!

Compared to what's come since he looks like FDR!

The ignore feature is your best friend. This board has become a lot more enjoyable since I put that clown on ignore. No point in trying to reason with him.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

This is the guy who is "willing to stand corrected" but won't listen to other peoples points of view because it offends him.

He's a product of the Obama years alright

Poor Eamon needs his safe space :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on September 28, 2017, 11:56:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 28, 2017, 08:00:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 28, 2017, 07:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 06:30:18 PM
Willing to stand corrected....

*************

Hilarious!!

Compared to what's come since he looks like FDR!

The ignore feature is your best friend. This board has become a lot more enjoyable since I put that clown on ignore. No point in trying to reason with him.
👍👍
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on September 29, 2017, 12:02:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 28, 2017, 11:56:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 28, 2017, 08:00:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 28, 2017, 07:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 06:30:18 PM
Willing to stand corrected....

*************

Hilarious!!

Compared to what's come since he looks like FDR!

The ignore feature is your best friend. This board has become a lot more enjoyable since I put that clown on ignore. No point in trying to reason with him.
👍👍

It's the lad who can't think for himself - wade in for your distressed buddy. good on you rossfanny ;)
You couldn't even find the ignore button if it was right in front of your crosseyes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on September 29, 2017, 10:24:22 PM
Tom Price gone, one private jet too many for the swamp drainer in chief. Still he last 6 months, not bad going in the Trump administration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 04, 2017, 03:59:58 PM
Is Tillerson going to stand down or say that he didn't call the President a moron??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 04, 2017, 04:01:11 PM
Is he f**k? They all tuck their tail between their legs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 04, 2017, 04:08:31 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/hqZ22VUTJub9C/giphy.gif)

He didn't deny the moron comment though!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 04, 2017, 04:15:56 PM
He totally called him a moron hahahaha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2017, 05:39:22 PM
Private Eye had an article about Lupert Murdoch who is now married to Jerry Hall. She says Trump is a loser and Murdoch has bought into that. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on October 04, 2017, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2017, 04:08:31 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/hqZ22VUTJub9C/giphy.gif)

He didn't deny the moron comment though!!

Great movie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 05, 2017, 11:58:34 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 28, 2017, 07:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2017, 06:30:18 PM
Willing to stand corrected....

On everything you're wrong about? There may be hope yet.

You can start by admitting what a clusterfuck obama was.

I admit that!!! I could do that all day long!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2017, 04:23:27 PM
I see the VP flew all the way from Las Vegas to get offended by the NFL players protesting at the Colts game and leaving the game early.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 09, 2017, 04:26:41 PM
Amazing waste of money. Did he think they'd suddenly stop doing it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magpie seanie on October 09, 2017, 04:35:36 PM
A planned publicity stunt. Trump even admitted talking about what he'd do. Or what Trump told him to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magpie seanie on October 09, 2017, 04:40:34 PM
Trump should start with Budweiser. I think putting a flag on a beer can is more disrespectful that taking a knee during an anthem. But it's not really about that of course. It's about what they're protesting for except they can't or won't come out and say that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on October 09, 2017, 06:18:14 PM
Why do (many) Americans think the flag belongs to the military?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2017, 06:28:39 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 09, 2017, 06:18:14 PM
Why do (many) Americans think the flag belongs to the military?

It's a great question. The role of the military in American culture has gotten even more dominant since 9/11. I remember being shocked at seeing a B2 stealth bomber flying over a stadium during the national anthem, now military fly-overs at pro sports events are a lot more common. Then there are soldiers carrying giant American flags onto the field (it's actually a violation of the code to carry it horizontally but we'll let that slide) while wearing combat gear and getting fawning praise from the crowd. The militarization of American pro sport is one of the channels through which this militaristic culture has been spreading. Even newscasters and sports commentators talk about "our" troops, which further conditions people into this culture of deference to the military. "Support our troops" and "thank you for your service" have become  some of the mantras that you have to say in America if you want to fit in.

Any political candidate who talks to a serviceman without saying "thank you for your service" is toast (unless the soldier is gay and the politician is a Republican).

The flag has become synonymous with military endeavors so the military has found its place in the American civic religion, a place in which all critical thinking is suspended and the doctrine is beyond question.

Where the exact roots of it are I'm not entirely sure. But it's clearly the result of some sort of campaign and it has been very effective.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2017, 07:02:04 PM
Donnie Dickhead also claimed on TV last night that he invented the word "fake"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLnmb1_XcAELuzw.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on October 09, 2017, 07:05:53 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 09, 2017, 06:18:14 PM
Why do (many) Americans think the flag belongs to the military?

I don't believe that they do - I believe that they think the ability of the USA to continue forward under that flag is protected by the military.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on October 09, 2017, 07:12:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2017, 06:28:39 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 09, 2017, 06:18:14 PM
Why do (many) Americans think the flag belongs to the military?

Even newscasters and sports commentators talk about "our" troops, which further conditions people into this culture of deference to the military. "Support our troops" and "thank you for your service" have become  some of the mantras that you have to say in America if you want to fit in.

Any political candidate who talks to a serviceman without saying "thank you for your service" is toast (unless the soldier is gay and the politician is a Republican).

The flag has become synonymous with military endeavors so the military has found its place in the American civic religion, a place in which all critical thinking is suspended and the doctrine is beyond question.

Where the exact roots of it are I'm not entirely sure. But it's clearly the result of some sort of campaign and it has been very effective.

I think that is balderdash Eamonn. I am neither a political candidate a politicking sort - but when I get the chance to thank a Military Member, I take it. It's got nothing to do with fitting in nor any political aspirations. I get up and put on my tie and go to work in a relatively safe place under the freedom provided by other men and women who go where they're told and do what they're told. Regardless of whether I agree with policy or not, these are brothers, sisters, husbands and wives of families in my community, work colleagues and friends.

America is not the only country that respects and honors its military - and as for the bit in bold... Christ on a bike.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2017, 07:32:07 PM
Sporting events have been infiltrated to the point where a lot of the time they've become giant military parades. You're not telling me that this has happened organically or by way of coincidence. The military industry is huge.

And as for the "freedom provided by soldiers" part, I think that's a myth that's been allowed to propagate and has fueled this culture of hero worship. America is safe because it only has borders with two docile and friendly countries to the north and south, while to the east and west it has vast oceans that make the place impossible to invade. The best the Japanese could do in WWII was a single air strike in Hawaii while the Germans managed to sneak a U-boat into an American harbor once, I think.

American freedom was brought to you by geography, not the military that so many people have been conditioned into fawning over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 09, 2017, 09:32:24 PM
There is a f**king contract between the department of defense and the NFL - of course it's a campaign. Not balderdash in the slightest.

All the shite before games is getting paid for by your tax dollars, Puck.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2017, 09:44:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 09, 2017, 09:32:24 PM
There is a f**king contract between the department of defense and the NFL - of course it's a campaign. Not balderdash in the slightest.

All the shite before games is getting paid for by your tax dollars, Puck.

Those contracts were voided were they not?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 09, 2017, 09:50:49 PM
Sorry, bit of an knee jerk reaction to suggestion that this is about "military appreciation".

They were getting paid up to at least 2015. Not sure of the specifics beyond that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2017, 10:02:49 PM
Yup, as I suspected, it's deliberate policy to militarize sports.

DoD paid $53 million of taxpayers' money to pro sports for military tributes, report says (http://www.post-gazette.com/news/nation/2015/11/06/Department-of-Defense-paid-53-million-to-pro-sports-for-military-tributes-report-says/stories/201511060140)

Quote"A report released Wednesday criticized the Department of Defense for spending millions in sports marketing contracts and called to task the professional sports teams that took the money, saying they were engaged in "paid patriotism."

"Prepared by U.S. Sens. John McCain and Jeff Flake, both Arizona Republicans, the report found that all military branches reported spending $53 million on marketing and advertising contracts with professional sports organizations between 2012 and 2015. More than $10 million of that went to the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA and Major League Soccer."

Seems like there is a bit of hope though:

QuoteSince reports on the contracts first came to light last spring, the Defense Department has banned the practice, and the NFL has called on its teams to stop taking payment for such activities.

That report is from 2015. God knows what this administration will try to pull.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on October 09, 2017, 10:22:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2017, 07:32:07 PM
And as for the "freedom provided by soldiers" part, I think that's a myth that's been allowed to propagate and has fueled this culture of hero worship. America is safe because it only has borders with two docile and friendly countries to the north and south, while to the east and west it has vast oceans that make the place impossible to invade. The best the Japanese could do in WWII was a single air strike in Hawaii while the Germans managed to sneak a U-boat into an American harbor once, I think.

American freedom was brought to you by geography, not the military that so many people have been conditioned into fawning over.

Again I disagree with the all or nothing (in this case nothing) suggestion that Military protection doesn't exist.

Quote from: gallsman on October 09, 2017, 09:50:49 PM
Sorry, bit of an knee jerk reaction to suggestion that this is about "military appreciation".

They were getting paid up to at least 2015. Not sure of the specifics beyond that.

Let me rephrase, and correct myself. Clearly when they are bumper stickers and a website encouraging "support our troops", there's a campaign of sorts. What I consider to be total rubbish is that the mindset behind the general military thank you from an individual to a serving or veteran individual is or has been fabricated. There's a local optician that recognizes a veteran before every football game here at UNR. Sure, he gets a little publicity, but I asked him what motivated him to do it. It was the son of a neighbor who came back with 2 prosthetic legs.

I just don't buy the genuine thank you is fabricated, is all. No doubt there's a big machine out there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2017, 10:57:00 PM
I'm not doubting that a lot of people have friends and family in the military and they think of the troops in a certain way. But I suspect that the vast majority of the people who worship the military gods have no such connection and they do so because of a culture that is at least in part manufactured.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 09, 2017, 11:06:41 PM
Many people have an affinity for the military due the incredible service given by immediate family members.  Their fathers fought in Vietnam, their grandfathers fought in Korea and their great grandfathers fought in WWII.....war is real and relevant to a lot of Americans.

Every town has numerous war memorials and annula Veterns Day and Memorial Day services and parades.

Respect for the flag is intertwined with respect for the military....whether that still holds true is up for debate. Trump is trying to copperfasten and exploit that respect, but I dont think its working

What I actually find offensive is NFL teams and their billionaire owners taking money from the DOD to stage faux patriotic displays. 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 09, 2017, 11:25:14 PM
Not having a go here Puck but I knew a few Army men and played on the same team as them when I lived in Dublin. They'd have taken some look at you for thanking them for their service!

It's a cultural thing and is more ingrained in the US than other Countries but Congress and the military need the support to keep the machine going!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2017, 11:43:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 09, 2017, 11:25:14 PM
Not having a go here Puck but I knew a few Army men and played on the same team as them when I lived in Dublin. They'd have taken some look at you for thanking them for their service!

It's a cultural thing and is more ingrained in the US than other Countries but Congress and the military need the support to keep the machine going!!

Exactly. When I lived in England I found that people didn't have a very high opinion of anyone who'd been in the army, it's not seen as a prestigious career choice. You wouldn't be seen dead walking up to one of those squaddies and saying "thank you for your service, you're a hero."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on October 09, 2017, 11:53:20 PM
It's no skin of my nose Screen - but comparing Dublin and UK military based folks is not the same thing! Clearly (and I am sure you know this Eamonn), British culture and American Culture wouldn't come close to comparison "in that sort of thing". FFS they're only a few years removed from shagging with the lights off.

Whitey's first paragraph below sums it up perfectly - in regards to America (before I get any more correlations to the English, Eammon!).

Actually, I'm not done. Who said it was prestigious? It's a service. It's considerably more of a service than the taxi driver or the barista. Folks still say thank you to those people too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2017, 12:27:08 AM
This is precisely my point. The increasingly militaristic culture of the US is way out of step with the rest of the developed world. If they had a decent amount of war on their own turf in recent memory then I think their attitude would be different. From my point of view all this gun-toting patriotism is like how Europe looked in the run-up to the First World War. I find it ominous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 10, 2017, 01:20:34 AM
How's indigenous peoples day going for u Eamon ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 10, 2017, 01:37:57 AM
Strange that given the furore over costs of private flights, no one in the administration thought about the cost of Pence's publicity stunt to the public purse.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 10, 2017, 04:48:04 AM
I have to say I do a fair bit of eye rolling and muttering under my breath at the fawning over the military in America and actually a wee bit of anger at the way I feel Im expected to join in and it all done in front of kids as well. And what the feck is this freedom anyway? I feel far freer in Ireland to be honest

However.... there is no doubt that everyone who lives in America benefits greatly from the military and that extends to varying degrees to people living in countries that have close links to America.

America's global position no doubt helps its sovereign defence but without a military a country with the resources that America has would be an immediate target for exploitation. Also its global position is actually a major hindrance to be able to project its military power in a useful way. And America's ability to do this through a deep water navy, vast airforce, nuclear deterrent...etc etc. is without a powerful diplomatic tool that America wields to its economic benefit via trade and commerce. Like it or not everyone in America benefits from this in one way or another.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 10, 2017, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2017, 01:37:57 AM
Strange that given the furore over costs of private flights, no one in the administration thought about the cost of Pence's publicity stunt to the public purse.

That's all it was a publicity stunt, as for the expense? C'mon, given Obamas wastefulness on that score you are being a tad hypocritical here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 10, 2017, 09:26:07 AM
Quote from: stew on October 10, 2017, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2017, 01:37:57 AM
Strange that given the furore over costs of private flights, no one in the administration thought about the cost of Pence's publicity stunt to the public purse.

That's all it was a publicity stunt, as for the expense? C'mon, given Obamas wastefulness on that score you are being a tad hypocritical here.

It would be interesting to note the expenditure of the two presidents personal expenditure in the Whitehouse!! Are there figures for that anywhere?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 10, 2017, 09:31:06 AM
Puck, I'm a bit surprised at this. I lived in the States from 1997 to 2001, and there was NEVER a 'Thanks for your Service'. In fact America treated it's veterans in an absolutely despicable manner. Since 9/11, and the war in Afghanistan, I believe the US ruling classes decided that they needed to popularise the option of the military, to keep thousands of young men and women interested in a career in the armed forces. There was a massive push for faux patriotism, and anyone who said anything against the foreign policy was 'UnAmerican'. This then morphed into the overt displays of military support at NFL games, and other sporting events. Which was paid for by the Government, as essentially a massive recruiting campaign. And then, in a move to try and normalise the fact that young men and women are flying half way around the world to be shot at, and to shoot, this 'Thank you for your service' has come in.

I used to quite regularly meet US armed forces in Shannon airport when I was travelling back and forth to England, and I had chats with a few of them about the Cardinals, or whatever. I wished them 'good luck' and hoped they got home ok, but even if I were American, I don't think I would say 'Thanks for your service' because in my eyes that's a cynical manipulation of public sentiment by a government (past and present) that is only interested in maintaining support for the operations overseas, and continues to see it's young men and women as meat for the grinder if needs be.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 10, 2017, 10:12:29 AM
That's a crucial point AZ - all this sort of shite at NFL games is window dressing. The American system continues to treat its veterans with absolute contempt, starting with the President ffs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 10, 2017, 10:15:07 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 10, 2017, 10:12:29 AM
That's a crucial point AZ - all this sort of shite at NFL games is window dressing. The American system continues to treat its veterans with absolute contempt, starting with the President ffs.

Yes. This was discussed here a few years ago I believe. The fact that the Government paid for those displays tells you all you need to know. It was dressed up as a 'Thank You for your service' when really it was the Government saying 'Here's a few million dollars, please make it look like you appreciate our military, because we need to keep up support of what we are doing overseas.'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 10, 2017, 02:15:33 PM
And the piece of shit in chief has some balls trying to generate outrage over disrespecting the military and the flag when he mocked and dismissed John McCain's time as a prisoner of war, saying he respected people "who weren't captured". The same sc**bag who boasted that his own personal Vietnam was trying to avoid STDs in the 70s. I guess the bone spurs didn't slow down THAT aspect of his morally bankrupt existence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 10, 2017, 02:21:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 09, 2017, 04:40:34 PM
Trump should start with Budweiser. I think putting a flag on a beer can is more disrespectful that taking a knee during an anthem. But it's not really about that of course. It's about what they're protesting for except they can't or won't come out and say that.

Not just the flag.

Their products, at least in the US, now have "America" on one side of the bottle/can, in the same font and size as the word "Budweiser".



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 10, 2017, 02:23:32 PM
Is that ongoing J70? I thought that was a July 4th thing.

They should have 'Piss' written on them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 10, 2017, 02:28:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 10, 2017, 02:23:32 PM
Is that ongoing J70? I thought that was a July 4th thing.

They should have 'Piss' written on them.

They were still on them a few weeks ago (last time I saw a case in the supermarket).

Even if I drank Budweiser (why would anyone drink shitty American beer like Budweiser or Coors or Miller with the multitude of craft and decent foreign brews available?) I would boycott it on principle for such a cynical, self serving campaign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on October 10, 2017, 02:32:45 PM
AZ, fair enough. We were ships in the night - my having arrived here in O2.

Older veterans have long been wearing their WW2, Korea, Vietnam hats and tee shirts with their regiment/platoon and tour years on them. I can't and won't speak for when that started, but I'll certainly ask a few of them if they were thanked/ if they think this component was campaign based.

I'll agree 100% on one thing - the veterans care system is beyond disgraceful. Even if the campaign you and others have suggested is completely true, the actual neglect of these men and women is a shame. Everyone knows it and perhaps it's another reason why people say thank you. The know they're getting rode every which way they can by the government they served.

I'm not overly surprised to read that you wouldn't say thanks - and I don't mean that in a personal disparaging way. It's not Irish culture to do so or think that way about the military of any country, America included. It's definitely American thing and being directly in the middle of it - I've zero problems with it. Costs me nothing, and I genuinely mean it when I say it.

I'm also not overly surprised to read joes comments either, but that's because he's a cynic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on October 10, 2017, 02:51:19 PM
The older guys have always been proud of their service, and wear those patches with pride. I wasn't saying that the veterans themselves were ashamed or anything, nor was I suggesting they should be. However I would be more than surprised if any of those old timers were thanked for their service until the mid 00s. It wasn't even 'a thing' when I was there.

I know that Vietnam vets, for example, were treated as if they were lepers when they came back. Far from being 'thanked' for their service, they were almost shunned in a lot of cases.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Zulu on October 10, 2017, 06:29:32 PM
Nothing to do with the men and women who serve but I don't get thanking them for their service. They are not protecting any American's freedom, if that's even under threat and you want to thank someone then thank their nuclear arsenal, while they have that they won't be invaded by any force on this planet!

It's been a long time since America faced anyone on an equal footing and as far as I can see their military has brought a lot of unnecessary death and destruction to many innocent people for little more than maintaining their geo-political power. World geo-politics isn't a simple situation and many poor people are forced to join the US army due to limited alternatives but while I wouldn't disrespect them I can't see why you'd feel the need to thank them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2017, 07:34:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 10, 2017, 01:20:34 AM
How's indigenous peoples day going for u Eamon ?

I went to work. We don't get that holiday, but public sector people do!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2017, 07:38:34 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 10, 2017, 02:23:32 PM
Is that ongoing J70? I thought that was a July 4th thing.

They should have 'Piss' written on them.

(https://cdn.winknews.com/wp-content/uploads/20160512163122/BudweiserAmerica.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 10, 2017, 08:06:29 PM
Mike Ditka on the anthem protests

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20981484/mike-ditka-claims-no-oppression-last-100-years

"All of a sudden, it's become a big deal now, about oppression," Ditka said. "There has been no oppression in the last 100 years that I know of. Now maybe I'm not watching it as carefully as other people."

That's a special kind of dumb right there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2017, 08:36:22 PM
The NYT is very interesting these days.
David Brooks had a super article on Saturday.

"The US needs "some sort of synthesis on the larger postindustrial/populism war. Over a century ago industrialisation brought on culture clash between agrarian populist and the genteel Victoria aristocrats.  Théodore Roosevelt transcended the fight by inventing a new kind of American nationalism. Meanwhile the progressives cleaned up elite corruption and nurtured a square deal for those left behind by technological change. Cultural leaders introduced new institutions and community forms like the Boy Scouts and the settlement house that drew from both cuktures replaced them.  Today we need another grand synthesis that can move us beyond the current divide, a synthesis that is neither redneck nor hipster nut draws from both worlds to create a new social vision progress on guns will be possible when the culture war subsides, not before. "

The UK needs the same to overcome leave/remain
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 10, 2017, 11:58:58 PM
Quote from: Zulu on October 10, 2017, 06:29:32 PM
Nothing to do with the men and women who serve but I don't get thanking them for their service. They are not protecting any American's freedom, if that's even under threat and you want to thank someone then thank their nuclear arsenal, while they have that they won't be invaded by any force on this planet!

It's been a long time since America faced anyone on an equal footing and as far as I can see their military has brought a lot of unnecessary death and destruction to many innocent people for little more than maintaining their geo-political power. World geo-politics isn't a simple situation and many poor people are forced to join the US army due to limited alternatives but while I wouldn't disrespect them I can't see why you'd feel the need to thank them.

I dont know if you live here or not, so you may have a different perspective if you dont.

From my recollection the whole "thanks for your service" crack started after 9/11.....I think it was probably started by Fox News.

When you say you dont get it....do you mean you dont get it why Americans do it?

First of all pretty much everyone knows someone who either was in, or is in the armed forces.

Most would know well or be related to someone who fought or is fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan.

They would know or be related to someone someone who was either injured or killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.

They would have an immediate family member.....dad, grandad, uncle grand uncle who fought in WWII, Korea or Vietnam. 

The military has a much more prominent place in the everyday lives of Americans than the Irish Army or British Army would have in their respective societies

You are (possibly) viewing the whole "thanks for your service" craic through a different lens than everyday folks in the States

In the same way there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 11, 2017, 12:12:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2017, 08:36:22 PM
The NYT is very interesting these days.
David Brooks had a super article on Saturday.

"The US needs "some sort of synthesis on the larger postindustrial/populism war. Over a century ago industrialisation brought on culture clash between agrarian populist and the genteel Victoria aristocrats.  Théodore Roosevelt transcended the fight by inventing a new kind of American nationalism. Meanwhile the progressives cleaned up elite corruption and nurtured a square deal for those left behind by technological change. Cultural leaders introduced new institutions and community forms like the Boy Scouts and the settlement house that drew from both cuktures replaced them.  Today we need another grand synthesis that can move us beyond the current divide, a synthesis that is neither redneck nor hipster nut draws from both worlds to create a new social vision progress on guns will be possible when the culture war subsides, not before. "

The UK needs the same to overcome leave/remain
project veritas have some new videos coming out tonight about the nyt and its links to antifa.
Also the elites in Hollywood have a lot to answer for keeping Harvey Weinstein shielded for thirty years
Rotten to the core
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 11, 2017, 08:54:45 AM
I see the Hollywood elite are being very coy about Harveygate! No surprise there then,  Ben Affleck has been called a liar when he tried to slither away as has his brother Casey, a known harasser of women.

Clinton is scampering like te rodent she is, she waited five days to see if it would die down ad when it did not the champion of women finally flapped her gums and is 'appalled '  at her campaign contributor and friend.

Hollywood is full of liberal elitist scum, they are reviled in many parts of the USA and for good reason, I hope these women get justice and that this blows the lid off that world and that republican and democrat offenders alike get outed, charged and if guilty do time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 11, 2017, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: dec on October 10, 2017, 08:06:29 PM
Mike Ditka on the anthem protests

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20981484/mike-ditka-claims-no-oppression-last-100-years

"All of a sudden, it's become a big deal now, about oppression," Ditka said. "There has been no oppression in the last 100 years that I know of. Now maybe I'm not watching it as carefully as other people."

That's a special kind of dumb right there.

Yep, Ditka is not known for his intelligent, thoughtful or informed political views.

Not sure he as dumb as the embarrassingly stupid Curt Schilling, but that's not saying much!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 11, 2017, 11:53:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 11, 2017, 12:12:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2017, 08:36:22 PM
The NYT is very interesting these days.
David Brooks had a super article on Saturday.

"The US needs "some sort of synthesis on the larger postindustrial/populism war. Over a century ago industrialisation brought on culture clash between agrarian populist and the genteel Victoria aristocrats.  Théodore Roosevelt transcended the fight by inventing a new kind of American nationalism. Meanwhile the progressives cleaned up elite corruption and nurtured a square deal for those left behind by technological change. Cultural leaders introduced new institutions and community forms like the Boy Scouts and the settlement house that drew from both cuktures replaced them.  Today we need another grand synthesis that can move us beyond the current divide, a synthesis that is neither redneck nor hipster nut draws from both worlds to create a new social vision progress on guns will be possible when the culture war subsides, not before. "

The UK needs the same to overcome leave/remain
project veritas have some new videos coming out tonight about the nyt and its links to antifa.
Also the elites in Hollywood have a lot to answer for keeping Harvey Weinstein shielded for thirty years
Rotten to the core

Oh great, O'Keefe again.

What "bombshell" will drop this time? ;D

And yeah, "elites" all over cover for each other. It's about power and lawyers. Whether it's Hollywood or Fox News. Or the NY DA not pursuing powerful people whether it's Weinstein or Trump's kids falsely inflated property values and sales to attract buyers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 11, 2017, 12:05:33 PM
For all your chat about Hollywood elitist scum, have you noticed
the president is a failed businessman that made his Money as an actor and producer of shite reality TV, making him Hollywood elitist scum who has admitted assaulting women on TV and been accused of rape by his then wife. 

What's good for the goose. Oh and Weinstein is a predator who makes movies. Agent orange is a predator in charge of the nuclear arsenal...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 11, 2017, 01:12:39 PM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2017, 08:54:45 AM
I see the Hollywood elite are being very coy about Harveygate! No surprise there then,  Ben Affleck has been called a liar when he tried to slither away as has his brother Casey, a known harasser of women.

Clinton is scampering like te rodent she is, she waited five days to see if it would die down ad when it did not the champion of women finally flapped her gums and is 'appalled '  at her campaign contributor and friend.

Hollywood is full of liberal elitist scum, they are reviled in many parts of the USA and for good reason, I hope these women get justice and that this blows the lid off that world and that republican and democrat offenders alike get outed, charged and if guilty do time.

Are you talking about Weinstein or Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 11, 2017, 11:58:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2017, 07:38:34 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 10, 2017, 02:23:32 PM
Is that ongoing J70? I thought that was a July 4th thing.

They should have 'Piss' written on them.

(https://cdn.winknews.com/wp-content/uploads/20160512163122/BudweiserAmerica.png)

Didn't that whole "America in a can of Bud" thing start when some non-American country bought Budweiser?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on October 12, 2017, 08:39:59 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 11, 2017, 12:05:33 PM
For all your chat about Hollywood elitist scum, have you noticed
the president is a failed businessman that made his Money as an actor and producer of shite reality TV, making him Hollywood elitist scum who has admitted assaulting women on TV and been accused of rape by his then wife. 

What's good for the goose. Oh and Weinstein is a predator who makes movies. Agent orange is a predator in charge of the nuclear arsenal...
You can label Trump many things, he is a despicable human being, but a "failed businessman", is not one of them. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2017, 10:46:16 AM
Just one who uses fraud and bankruptcy and refusing to pay his vendors (usually small businesses without the resources to fight back) as "tools".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 12, 2017, 10:59:32 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 11, 2017, 01:12:39 PM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2017, 08:54:45 AM
I see the Hollywood elite are being very coy about Harveygate! No surprise there then,  Ben Affleck has been called a liar when he tried to slither away as has his brother Casey, a known harasser of women.

Clinton is scampering like te rodent she is, she waited five days to see if it would die down ad when it did not the champion of women finally flapped her gums and is 'appalled '  at her campaign contributor and friend.

Hollywood is full of liberal elitist scum, they are reviled in many parts of the USA and for good reason, I hope these women get justice and that this blows the lid off that world and that republican and democrat offenders alike get outed, charged and if guilty do time.

Are you talking about Weinstein or Trump?

Nice deflection but since you mention it, both!

There are no allegations at present against Trump, the left tried to get him a few years ago bought a ;lady they focused on said he was a gentleman, that said, I would not be surprised if he gets turned over for the same shit, based on his personality and attitude toward women,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 12, 2017, 06:23:15 PM
Of course nobody had a clue.
BFF's

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aTXAv-rp0RA/hqdefault.jpg)

Quick. Mention something about Donald Trump to shift the focus



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2017, 06:48:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 12, 2017, 06:23:15 PM
Of course nobody had a clue.
BFF's

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aTXAv-rp0RA/hqdefault.jpg)

Quick. Mention something about Donald Trump to shift the focus

Of course Obama knew. That's why he sent his teenage daughter to work for him.  ::)

And given the pussy grabber's record, and that of the Fox News elite, this is clearly a non-partisan, societal issue, not a political one. There is another story this week about a Boston University geologist subjecting female grad students to dog's abuse while on various expeditions in Antarctica, threatening their future careers if they spoke out. You have the head of Uber and other Silicon Valley heads being turfed out over the past year.

Some men are scumbags. Powerful scumbags just have a much more extensive reach.

Hopefully more women will now have the courage to expose them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2017, 07:05:08 PM
Here you go Foxcommander, a couple of sexual harassers and rumoured worse with their wives (Actually, I've no idea if the middle woman is Weinstein's wife).

(http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Donald+Trump+Harvey+Weinstein+New+York+Premiere+cb8oOG4XzZUl.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 12, 2017, 07:09:25 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 12, 2017, 08:39:59 AM
You can label Trump many things, he is a despicable human being, but a "failed businessman", is not one of them.

Oh really? and why would you say that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on October 12, 2017, 08:47:18 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 12, 2017, 07:09:25 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 12, 2017, 08:39:59 AM
You can label Trump many things, he is a despicable human being, but a "failed businessman", is not one of them.

Oh really? and why would you say that?
Honestly not interested in getting in to a debate about this as I have zero time for trump, but I wouldnt be labelling a billionaire business man as a "failed business man", but thats just me.  Look you can talk about the merits and integrity of how he accumulated that money until the cows come home.  If you want to label him a failed business man on the back of that, knock yourself out.  But there is plenty other failures out there.  Chelsea owner, former A.C. Milan owner....  Maybe he cries himself to sleep on his private jet at all his business failures.  A failed human being is how id describe him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2017, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 12, 2017, 08:47:18 PM
Honestly not interested in getting in to a debate about this as I have zero time for trump, but I wouldnt be labelling a billionaire business man as a "failed business man", but thats just me.  Look you can talk about the merits and integrity of how he accumulated that money until the cows come home.  If you want to label him a failed business man on the back of that, knock yourself out.  But there is plenty other failures out there.  Chelsea owner, former A.C. Milan owner....  Maybe he cries himself to sleep on his private jet at all his business failures.  A failed human being is how id describe him.

If Trump started with nothing then you might have something. He started with a million bucks his dad gave him. If he'd put that money in a mutual fund he'd be a lot wealthier than he is today. He has a string of bankruptcies behind him and his business model seems to be to refuse to pay his bills after getting work done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 12, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2017, 06:48:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 12, 2017, 06:23:15 PM
Of course nobody had a clue.
BFF's

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aTXAv-rp0RA/hqdefault.jpg)

Quick. Mention something about Donald Trump to shift the focus

Of course Obama knew. That's why he sent his teenage daughter to work for him.  ::)

And given the pussy grabber's record,

Didn't take you too long sir. Quicker shift than the slow set at the Limelight playing a Garth Brooks ballad.

The cults of the left aren't adverse to the odd sacrifice now, are they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2017, 10:01:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 12, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2017, 06:48:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 12, 2017, 06:23:15 PM
Of course nobody had a clue.
BFF's

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aTXAv-rp0RA/hqdefault.jpg)

Quick. Mention something about Donald Trump to shift the focus

Of course Obama knew. That's why he sent his teenage daughter to work for him.  ::)

And given the pussy grabber's record,

Didn't take you too long sir. Quicker shift than the slow set at the Limelight playing a Garth Brooks ballad.

The cults of the left aren't adverse to the odd sacrifice now, are they?

Only one person politicizing this here and it's not me.

And when you can find some statement of mine that makes any claims that people on the left are less prone to personal failings than those on the right, come back to me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 12, 2017, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2017, 10:01:58 PM
Only one person politicizing this here and it's not me.

And when you can find some statement of mine that makes any claims that people on the left are less prone to personal failings than those on the right, come back to me.

J70 - I never said you did.


To be fair though him being a democrat donor has made it pretty uncomfortable for the left to admit he's one of theirs. Not politically correct behaviour we've come to expect.

It even took Hillary 5 days to make a statement condemning him.

Look - the president, like Bill Clinton before him, have a penchant for the ladies. We knew that from the bush tapes. The record speed at which Donald gets hammered for any other little faux pas is breathtaking. Even mispronouncing a word goes viral in 5 minutes.

I do love the word "hypocrisy", especially when pious virtues of the left have been shoved down your throat by the likes of CNN. Choke on that Don Lemon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2017, 12:05:48 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 12, 2017, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2017, 10:01:58 PM
Only one person politicizing this here and it's not me.

And when you can find some statement of mine that makes any claims that people on the left are less prone to personal failings than those on the right, come back to me.

J70 - I never said you did.


To be fair though him being a democrat donor has made it pretty uncomfortable for the left to admit he's one of theirs. Not politically correct behaviour we've come to expect.

It even took Hillary 5 days to make a statement condemning him.

Look - the president, like Bill Clinton before him, have a penchant for the ladies. We knew that from the bush tapes. The record speed at which Donald gets hammered for any other little faux pas is breathtaking. Even mispronouncing a word goes viral in 5 minutes.

I do love the word "hypocrisy", especially when pious virtues of the left have been shoved down your throat by the likes of CNN. Choke on that Don Lemon.

Hypocrisy would be defending or condoning sexual harassment by Weinstein or Clinton while condemning Trump or someone else for the same.

And yes, groups as a whole are always quicker to pull the trigger on opponents while they're more likely to give the benefit of the doubt or wait and see with their own side. Welcome to human nature. Especially when they're political donors! But I haven't seen one person in this board prevaricate in their condemnation of Weinstein.

And sexual harassment and abuse has nothing to do with political correctness. It's abhorrent behaviour, full stop, not some debatable choice of words.

Finally, I'm not uncomfortable with this scandal whatsoever. I'm glad he's been outed, and hopefully plenty more like him suffer the same fate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 13, 2017, 02:24:47 AM
Foxy,
Wholeheartedly agree about the point scoring on both sides.

Though why you all still care about Hilary is beyond me. It's over, she lost. So what if it's 5 days later, private uninvolved citizen at this point?

The pious wankers crack me up too,  and if anyone on this board wants to see a hypocrite, look in the mirror, we are human and we justify our own shit to ourselves. But closet politicians being hard on the gay community, socialists with Swiss bank accounts, family first advocates with mistresses, don't make hypocrisy your job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 13, 2017, 02:45:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2017, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 12, 2017, 08:47:18 PM
Honestly not interested in getting in to a debate about this as I have zero time for trump, but I wouldnt be labelling a billionaire business man as a "failed business man", but thats just me.  Look you can talk about the merits and integrity of how he accumulated that money until the cows come home.  If you want to label him a failed business man on the back of that, knock yourself out.  But there is plenty other failures out there.  Chelsea owner, former A.C. Milan owner....  Maybe he cries himself to sleep on his private jet at all his business failures.  A failed human being is how id describe him.

If Trump started with nothing then you might have something. He started with a million bucks his dad gave him. If he'd put that money in a mutual fund he'd be a lot wealthier than he is today. He has a string of bankruptcies behind him and his business model seems to be to refuse to pay his bills after getting work done.

You spend too much time listening to Elizabeth Warren

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/dec/09/occupy-democrats/occupy-democrats-say-simple-investment-trumps-fath/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on October 13, 2017, 10:56:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2017, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 12, 2017, 08:47:18 PM
Honestly not interested in getting in to a debate about this as I have zero time for trump, but I wouldnt be labelling a billionaire business man as a "failed business man", but thats just me.  Look you can talk about the merits and integrity of how he accumulated that money until the cows come home.  If you want to label him a failed business man on the back of that, knock yourself out.  But there is plenty other failures out there.  Chelsea owner, former A.C. Milan owner....  Maybe he cries himself to sleep on his private jet at all his business failures.  A failed human being is how id describe him.

If Trump started with nothing then you might have something. He started with a million bucks his dad gave him. If he'd put that money in a mutual fund he'd be a lot wealthier than he is today. He has a string of bankruptcies behind him and his business model seems to be to refuse to pay his bills after getting work done.
Wise up FFS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Longshanks on October 13, 2017, 01:25:34 PM


If Trump started with nothing then you might have something. He started with a million bucks his dad gave him. If he'd put that money in a mutual fund he'd be a lot wealthier than he is today. He has a string of bankruptcies behind him and his business model seems to be to refuse to pay his bills after getting work done.
[/quote]Wise up FFS
[/quote]

In fairness there are numerous occasions of bankruptcies and also unpaid debts which he seemingly just ignores, this isn't to take away from his riches but he has failed alot of people in money that he owes them over the years.
I can't see how he can be rated as a good businessman, perhaps a showman yes but he is not the brains of the operation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on October 13, 2017, 01:25:34 PM


If Trump started with nothing then you might have something. He started with a million bucks his dad gave him. If he'd put that money in a mutual fund he'd be a lot wealthier than he is today. He has a string of bankruptcies behind him and his business model seems to be to refuse to pay his bills after getting work done.
Wise up FFS
[/quote]

In fairness there are numerous occasions of bankruptcies and also unpaid debts which he seemingly just ignores, this isn't to take away from his riches but he has failed alot of people in money that he owes them over the years.
I can't see how he can be rated as a good businessman, perhaps a showman yes but he is not the brains of the operation.
[/quote]

About ten years ago I worked for a small company that did a lot of work for big NY real estate outfits, but refused to do business with Trump because he'd stiffed them a few times. And they were far from alone, according to the numerous stories that came out in the campaign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 13, 2017, 02:19:51 PM
He really has no self-awareness

(https://i.imgur.com/UJZoHz7.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 13, 2017, 02:53:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on October 13, 2017, 01:25:34 PM


If Trump started with nothing then you might have something. He started with a million bucks his dad gave him. If he'd put that money in a mutual fund he'd be a lot wealthier than he is today. He has a string of bankruptcies behind him and his business model seems to be to refuse to pay his bills after getting work done.
Wise up FFS

In fairness there are numerous occasions of bankruptcies and also unpaid debts which he seemingly just ignores, this isn't to take away from his riches but he has failed alot of people in money that he owes them over the years.
I can't see how he can be rated as a good businessman, perhaps a showman yes but he is not the brains of the operation.
[/quote]

About ten years ago I worked for a small company that did a lot of work for big NY real estate outfits, but refused to do business with Trump because he'd stiffed them a few times. And they were far from alone, according to the numerous stories that came out in the campaign.
[/quote]

www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Philly-cabinetmaker-We-went-broke-after-Trump-stiffed-us.html%3Famphtml=y

Did you ever see this fella interviewed.

Not only did Trump stiff them, he then got them blackballed because they sued.Put them out of business
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2017, 03:51:17 PM
Despicable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 13, 2017, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2017, 02:24:47 AM
Foxy,
Wholeheartedly agree about the point scoring on both sides.

Though why you all still care about Hilary is beyond me. It's over, she lost. So what if it's 5 days later, private uninvolved citizen at this point?

The pious w**kers crack me up too,  and if anyone on this board wants to see a hypocrite, look in the mirror, we are human and we justify our own shit to ourselves. But closet politicians being hard on the gay community, socialists with Swiss bank accounts, family first advocates with mistresses, don't make hypocrisy your job.

I think the biggest issue with Hillary is the fact she has made herself a self appointed champion of women (glass ceiling etc). I'm glad she finally made a statement but I don't think she really had a choice in this instance but to stick in the knife.
As for the private citizen comment  - If you've been following her book tour you'll find that it's turned into a "why did I lose" tour and she hasn't quite given up hope of ousting President Trump to take the white house - especially if they can find anything in the russia probe (which is BS). She's still battling away for the democrats (even it they don't want her to)

There's a lot of Hollywood scrambling right now and will be sweating it that they are next on the chopping block. Ben Affleck has been first up defending himself for historic behaviour. There's bound to be more.

Not that Hollywood should be used as a moral compass or anything. It's amazing how all this has been kept in house for so long, especially in that industry. The fact that you've had so many celebrities condemning Trump and backing democrats/Clinton while at the same time keeping these big secrets is what really stands out.

It's an open goal for republicans and in recent times they have hardly been in the opponents half.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 13, 2017, 05:58:45 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2017, 02:24:47 AM
Foxy,
Wholeheartedly agree about the point scoring on both sides.

Though why you all still care about Hilary is beyond me. It's over, she lost. So what if it's 5 days later, private uninvolved citizen at this point?

The pious w**kers crack me up too,  and if anyone on this board wants to see a hypocrite, look in the mirror, we are human and we justify our own shit to ourselves. But closet politicians being hard on the gay community, socialists with Swiss bank accounts, family first advocates with mistresses, don't make hypocrisy your job.

Interestingly Hegan I just found this article

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2017/1013/912172-hillary-clinton-harvey-weinstein/

Democrats deflecting the Weinstein scandal by using Trump as a comparison.
But not Bill, he was innocent LOL :D

They won't allow weinstein to hang on his own merits. Politics at it's best.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 13, 2017, 06:31:11 PM
Donnie d**khead said this morning he met with the President of the Virgin Islands when touring hurricane damage. He is the President of the Virgin Islands  ::)

https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/918847309928071168
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 13, 2017, 09:38:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 13, 2017, 06:31:11 PM
Donnie d**khead said this morning he met with the President of the Virgin Islands when touring hurricane damage. He is the President of the Virgin Islands  ::)

https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/918847309928071168

"I think he's crazy," Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.) confided to his colleague Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) in a July exchange inadvertently caught on a microphone. ("I'm worried," she replied.) CNN's Don Lemon, flabbergasted after a Trump speech last month, concluded that "he's unhinged. . . . There was no sanity there." Even some Republicans have grown more blunt, with Sen. Bob Corker (Tenn.) recently suggesting that Trump "has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability nor some of the competence" to succeed as president
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 13, 2017, 10:19:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 13, 2017, 09:38:57 PM
CNN's Don Lemon, flabbergasted after a Trump speech last month, concluded that "he's unhinged. . . . There was no sanity there."

Are you talking about the same unpartisan Don Lemon from CNN ?

He's a liberal repeater. Fake news merchant.
and more besides.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2017, 10:19:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 13, 2017, 09:38:57 PM
CNN's Don Lemon, flabbergasted after a Trump speech last month, concluded that "he's unhinged. . . . There was no sanity there."

Are you talking about the same unpartisan Don Lemon from CNN ?

He's a liberal repeater. Fake news merchant.
and more besides.

Worse than that! he is the village idiot in a village full of idiots, he is unprepared, extreme far left and an absolute moron, the Milwaukee County ex sheriff abused his stupid ass!lemon by name and nature.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 14, 2017, 03:03:43 AM
With all the Weinstein carry on in the press this week, who told trump that it was a good idea to retweet Bill O Reilly?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:30:43 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 14, 2017, 03:03:43 AM
With all the Weinstein carry on in the press this week, who told trump that it was a good idea to retweet Bill O Reilly?

The same Trump who just retweeted a "man" who got fired from his job at Fox News for multiple instances of sexual harassment and was required to pay out $13million in settlements to 5 women.

And a week later ..... the same President that called O'Reilly a "good guy" and "I don't think he did anything wrong" 



Stew will be along shortly to shout Hillary, Obama, CNN, MSNBC shortly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:39:25 AM
QuotePresident Donald Trump, speaking to The New York Times in an interview from the Oval Office, defended Fox News host Bill O'Reilly, after reports surfaced that O'Reilly and Fox News settled five claims accusing him of sexual harassment.

"I think he's a person I know well — he is a good person," Trump said, according to the Times. "I think he shouldn't have settled; personally I think he shouldn't have settled. Because you should have taken it all the way. I don't think Bill did anything wrong."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2017, 08:37:50 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:30:43 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 14, 2017, 03:03:43 AM
With all the Weinstein carry on in the press this week, who told trump that it was a good idea to retweet Bill O Reilly?

The same Trump who just retweeted a "man" who got fired from his job at Fox News for multiple instances of sexual harassment and was required to pay out $13million in settlements to 5 women.

And a week later ..... the same President that called O'Reilly a "good guy" and "I don't think he did anything wrong" 



Stew will be along shortly to shout Hillary, Obama, CNN, MSNBC shortly

No he wont, Trump is as bad as Weinstein in my opinion, that's the difference in us, one of us ( Me)  can see a thing how it is and say how it is, the other, (You) are a liberal apologist who is blinded by the liberal media,

I have no gra for snowflakes and apologists, you sadly are both Gab!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2017, 11:52:04 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2017, 10:19:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 13, 2017, 09:38:57 PM
CNN's Don Lemon, flabbergasted after a Trump speech last month, concluded that "he's unhinged. . . . There was no sanity there."

Are you talking about the same unpartisan Don Lemon from CNN ?

He's a liberal repeater. Fake news merchant.
and more besides.

Interesting how you ignore the other part of his post!

As hominem attack on Don Lemon. Yeah, that'll refute the valid comments on the behaviour of the great orange infant. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 02:51:48 PM
Lemon is a gay black man - not hard to see why Fox isn't a fan of him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Do they? And it's think - not thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:29:44 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Do they? And it's think - not thing

Congratulations, you won the boards spelling contest today ....did you ever hear of autocomplete?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:34:14 PM
Autocorrect  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2017, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 02:51:48 PM
Lemon is a gay black man - not hard to see why Fox isn't a fan of him.

I knew he was an imbecile, I did not know he was gay, nor do I care, he is as thick as shit and that is good enough for me!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:44:37 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:34:14 PM
Autocorrect  ;)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocomplete
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2017, 03:47:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 13, 2017, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2017, 02:24:47 AM
Foxy,
Wholeheartedly agree about the point scoring on both sides.

Though why you all still care about Hilary is beyond me. It's over, she lost. So what if it's 5 days later, private uninvolved citizen at this point?

The pious w**kers crack me up too,  and if anyone on this board wants to see a hypocrite, look in the mirror, we are human and we justify our own shit to ourselves. But closet politicians being hard on the gay community, socialists with Swiss bank accounts, family first advocates with mistresses, don't make hypocrisy your job.

I think the biggest issue with Hillary is the fact she has made herself a self appointed champion of women (glass ceiling etc). I'm glad she finally made a statement but I don't think she really had a choice in this instance but to stick in the knife.
As for the private citizen comment  - If you've been following her book tour you'll find that it's turned into a "why did I lose" tour and she hasn't quite given up hope of ousting President Trump to take the white house - especially if they can find anything in the russia probe (which is BS). She's still battling away for the democrats (even it they don't want her to)

There's a lot of Hollywood scrambling right now and will be sweating it that they are next on the chopping block. Ben Affleck has been first up defending himself for historic behaviour. There's bound to be more.

Not that Hollywood should be used as a moral compass or anything. It's amazing how all this has been kept in house for so long, especially in that industry. The fact that you've had so many celebrities condemning Trump and backing democrats/Clinton while at the same time keeping these big secrets is what really stands out.

It's an open goal for republicans and in recent times they have hardly been in the opponents half.

These Hollywood cocksuckers are on their knees as well they should, they reek of hypocrisy and the right should slaughter them for it, Affleck is the tip of the iceberg, make it rain deplorables, make it rain and sink these low lifes!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:52:18 PM
Lovely use of language stew  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2017, 04:00:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:52:18 PM
Lovely use of language stew  ::)

Saturday night is started early for stew!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 04:50:30 PM
QuoteFive women have received payouts totalling $13 million from either Mr O'Reilly himself or Fox News' parent company 21st Century Fox following complaints about verbal abuse and unwanted sexual advances   

Can't see too many conservatives lining up with this guy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2017, 05:08:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 04:00:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 03:52:18 PM
Lovely use of language stew  ::)

Saturday night is started early for stew!

I have yet to touch a drink, I am making dinner, I stand by what I said and I meant every word, I meant it and called it as I see it, if that offends some on here sorry about that, I did not mean to offend anyone, that said I despise the hypocritical left with a passion, jut one mans opinion, nothing to get het up about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2017, 05:13:35 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 04:50:30 PM
QuoteFive women have received payouts totalling $13 million from either Mr O'Reilly himself or Fox News' parent company 21st Century Fox following complaints about verbal abuse and unwanted sexual advances   

Can't see too many conservatives lining up with this guy

The more to deflect the more transparent you become, try and focus on your heroes donor and his sexual proclivities, its ok to admit your lot are a steaming pile of horseshit, some republicans are too, its just that you lot have so many more than they do!

Viable centralist party as a third option anyone????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 05:16:47 PM
So - when you use that delightful phrase - are you talking about women  or gay men?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2017, 05:33:02 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 05:16:47 PM
So - when you use that delightful phrase - are you talking about women  or gay men?

You talking to me???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 14, 2017, 05:37:59 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 13, 2017, 02:24:47 AM
Foxy,
Wholeheartedly agree about the point scoring on both sides.

Though why you all still care about Hilary is beyond me. It's over, she lost. So what if it's 5 days later, private uninvolved citizen at this point?


Oh damn! THIS is the gold standard in hypocrisy. You have to watch how she doesn't even flinch when the lies come out of her mouth.

Go Hillary.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-41612762/clinton-on-weinstein-i-was-shocked-and-appalled
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 05:43:45 PM
Quote from: stew on October 14, 2017, 05:33:02 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 05:16:47 PM
So - when you use that delightful phrase - are you talking about women  or gay men?

You talking to me???

Well - you used the phrase (along with another poster earlier). Enlighten me.

You seem very angry today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 14, 2017, 06:13:52 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 02:51:48 PM
Lemon is a gay black man - not hard to see why Fox isn't a fan of him.

No, he's a turd. All you have to do is watch him to understand why.
Of course you bring race/gender politics into the equation in order to label. Bravo. Have you no original argument of your own or have you been programmed to react this way now to every event that involves someone who is a minority.
It's very f**king sad how many can't think for themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:21:53 PM
Quote from: stew on October 14, 2017, 05:13:35 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2017, 04:50:30 PM
QuoteFive women have received payouts totalling $13 million from either Mr O'Reilly himself or Fox News' parent company 21st Century Fox following complaints about verbal abuse and unwanted sexual advances   

Can't see too many conservatives lining up with this guy

The more to deflect the more transparent you become, try and focus on your heroes donor and his sexual proclivities, its ok to admit your lot are a steaming pile of horseshit, some republicans are too, its just that you lot have so many more than they do!

Viable centralist party as a third option anyone????

Care to back that up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 14, 2017, 07:45:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

Lemon might be the dumbest interviewer I have ever seen, the republicans wipe the floor with him all the time, the Milwaukee county sheriff abuses him every time they converse, he is inaccurate in his facts and a complete apologist for BLM, in short, he is a useless tosser.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".

There's quite a lot that do J70.

There's even people on the left who pay attention to James Corden as some sore of role model ffs.
F*t t**ser.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".

There's quite a lot that do J70.

There's even people on the left who pay attention to James Corden as some sore of role model ffs.
F*t t**ser.

And there's quite a lot of conservatives who pay attention to Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and even Kid Rock, Ted Nugent and Charlie Daniels (why does "shut up and sing!" not apply to them?).

And I didn't even know James Corden had ever uttered a political opinion in public. He's renowned for his karaoke in the car skits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".

There's quite a lot that do J70.

There's even people on the left who pay attention to James Corden as some sore of role model ffs.
F*t t**ser.

And there's quite a lot of conservatives who pay attention to Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and even Kid Rock, Ted Nugent and Charlie Daniels (why does "shut up and sing!" not apply to them?).

And I didn't even know James Corden had ever uttered a political opinion in public. He's renowned for his karaoke in the car skits.

The f*t t*t has been at it on his late night show. As if he wasn't already insufferable :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2017, 06:05:59 PM
you'd know all about being insufferable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2017, 06:05:59 PM
you'd know all about being insufferable

Is that a personal insult? Do I have to get a moderator involved?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".

There's quite a lot that do J70.

There's even people on the left who pay attention to James Corden as some sore of role model ffs.
F*t t**ser.

And there's quite a lot of conservatives who pay attention to Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and even Kid Rock, Ted Nugent and Charlie Daniels (why does "shut up and sing!" not apply to them?).

And I didn't even know James Corden had ever uttered a political opinion in public. He's renowned for his karaoke in the car skits.

The f*t t*t has been at it on his late night show. As if he wasn't already insufferable :D

At what?

Has he been telling jokes at the expense of poor widdle Donald?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2017, 06:44:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2017, 06:05:59 PM
you'd know all about being insufferable

Is that a personal insult? Do I have to get a moderator involved?

Knock yourself out Chief
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2017, 06:44:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2017, 06:05:59 PM
you'd know all about being insufferable

Is that a personal insult? Do I have to get a moderator involved?

Knock yourself out Chief

I seem to recall you screaming hysterically recently about wanting moderators to enforce the rules about insulting others (I believe someone called you a **** sucker which you weren't very happy about)

Does that rule not apply to you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2017, 07:53:45 PM
I suggest you undertake in some learning to read classes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2017, 08:53:59 PM
Lying through his teeth

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/919990669107777536

And that day when the soliders came home - where was he? I'll give you 3 guesses - http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/13/politics/niger-attack-trump-silence/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 16, 2017, 08:58:17 PM
He also claimed that Ireland is going to reduce its corporate tax rate to 8%.

The guy is a pathological liar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 16, 2017, 09:01:08 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22449913_10159371592675696_3350313800286834865_n.jpg?oh=f49ef53e3c508924a3e3a8eb4db58efe&oe=5A79913C)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 09:44:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2017, 07:53:45 PM
I suggest you undertake in some learning to read classes


So you're calling another poster iliterate now? This continuous insulting of another board member really should be justification for a ban under the rules you pleaded for.

If any moderator is watching let's start enforcing and make an example of Gabriel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 17, 2017, 12:02:54 AM
(http://img.speakaboos.com/images/assets/videos/thumbnails/618x258/the-boy-who-cried-wolf.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 20, 2017, 01:14:52 PM
You gotta wonder how these guys are involved in any part of a country's govt activities

A pastor who took part in a "laying of hands" prayer on President Donald Trump in the Oval Office last summer claims Hollywood is full of devil-worshippers who engage in human sacrifice and drink the blood of children.

"These people are full of the devil. These people can't even be reasoned with," Rodney Howard-Browne said in a sermon over the weekend. "They have already given their soul to the devil. Are you with me? These people go through seances, these people drink blood, these people sacrifice children."

"They sacrifice children at the highest levels in Hollywood. They drink blood of young kids. This is a fact. That's why the next thing to be exposed will be all the pedophilia that is going to come out of Hollywood and come out of Washington, D.C. The human sacrifice and the cannibalism has been going on for years."

When someone told Howard-Browne that "they don't do that," he insisted that "it's worse than what you think."

Howard-Browne then described the supposed satanic rituals that go on in Hollywood.
"Many of the Hollywood actors that you go see on a screen, what you don't know, they bring a witch, they do a big seance right there on the set and they worship devils and they allow devils to come into them before they take the part of what they're going to act," he said. "It's a fact what I am telling you."

The South Africa-born pastor and his wife, Adonica Howard-Browne, are founders of the Tampa-based Revival Ministries and its River church. Howard-Browne is also known for "Holy Laughter" ― when he touches his faithful, they collapse into laughter ― as well as his on-stage antics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2017, 02:20:02 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 20, 2017, 01:14:52 PM
You gotta wonder how these guys are involved in any part of a country's govt activities

A pastor who took part in a "laying of hands" prayer on President Donald Trump in the Oval Office last summer claims Hollywood is full of devil-worshippers who engage in human sacrifice and drink the blood of children.

"These people are full of the devil. These people can't even be reasoned with," Rodney Howard-Browne said in a sermon over the weekend. "They have already given their soul to the devil. Are you with me? These people go through seances, these people drink blood, these people sacrifice children."

"They sacrifice children at the highest levels in Hollywood. They drink blood of young kids. This is a fact. That's why the next thing to be exposed will be all the pedophilia that is going to come out of Hollywood and come out of Washington, D.C. The human sacrifice and the cannibalism has been going on for years."

When someone told Howard-Browne that "they don't do that," he insisted that "it's worse than what you think."

Howard-Browne then described the supposed satanic rituals that go on in Hollywood.
"Many of the Hollywood actors that you go see on a screen, what you don't know, they bring a witch, they do a big seance right there on the set and they worship devils and they allow devils to come into them before they take the part of what they're going to act," he said. "It's a fact what I am telling you."

The South Africa-born pastor and his wife, Adonica Howard-Browne, are founders of the Tampa-based Revival Ministries and its River church. Howard-Browne is also known for "Holy Laughter" ― when he touches his faithful, they collapse into laughter ― as well as his on-stage antics.

He's preaching to people who believe in creationism, Obama being a Kenyan muslim, Hillary murdering Vince Foster and Ron Brown and others, FEMA reeducation camps, Jade Helm, false flag government operations, gay conversion therapy and so on and on.

They've been conditioned to believe the very worst about anyone who doesn't think as they do. They believe that they are the real victims and that white christians are undergoing terrible persecution in the US (kind of like how many unionists saw any concession to catholics in the north as part of a zero sum game which necessitated their losing something).

Hollywood satanism and child sacrifice is not a huge stretch!

One does wonder how wealthy this "preacher" is though? :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on October 20, 2017, 02:38:47 PM
For anyone who missed it - Dubya's speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07UKipL8PLE) yesterday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 20, 2017, 02:46:44 PM
QuoteFor anyone who missed it - Dubya's speech yesterday.

How far removed the sentiments expressed in that are from what passes as GOP policy today
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ashman on October 20, 2017, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 20, 2017, 02:46:44 PM
QuoteFor anyone who missed it - Dubya's speech yesterday.

How far removed the sentiments expressed in that are from what passes as GOP policy today

To be fair Trump hasn't illegally invaded a country yet .  He didn't engage in rigging the electoral registrar ,  he hasn't  given utterly immoral tax cuts to the richest 10 % ,  he doesn't have a Dick Cheney .

To be honest he is a trade up on last GOP President .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 20, 2017, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 20, 2017, 02:38:47 PM
For anyone who missed it - Dubya's speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07UKipL8PLE) yesterday.

AND he's a halfwit as well it's easy to see how far politics has descended in such a short space of time!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on October 20, 2017, 04:47:42 PM
I loved reading the line about him turning to those around him during Trump's inauguration speech and saying "this is some weird shît". When you consider he stayed respectfully quiet during Obama's tenure it says something that he's speaking out so openly against a president from his own party.

It's amazing how even GWB looks better in retrospect, never mind Obama, who now looks downright heroic compared to his successor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2017, 05:02:18 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 20, 2017, 02:50:46 PM
To be honest he is a trade up on last GOP President .

True. At least he doesn't know how things work. Hopefully by the time he figures out what the job of President entails we'll already have had the mid-terms and the Democrats will have taken back Congress. We'll have a better chance of limiting the damage for the next two years or until Trump's impeached, whatever comes first.

As for impeachment, that Pence fella scares the crap out of me and he'd be another Bush. I'd be okay with riding out the Trump storm for another three years, but it's gonna be exhausting!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on October 20, 2017, 08:50:33 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.

I prefer M&Ms myself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2017, 08:51:57 PM
MSM
SJW
PC

I usually stop reading when I see any of these bullshit alt-right acronyms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 20, 2017, 11:14:52 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.

The same story that was debunked last year?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/10/26/the-facts-behind-trumps-repeated-claim-about-hillary-clintons-role-in-the-russian-uranium-deal/?utm_term=.d73a454eceae
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on October 21, 2017, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
I can barely see you up there master. Is that really you? I don't pretend to be as learned as you but is it really old news that the Senate Judiciary Committee intends to probe this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 21, 2017, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 21, 2017, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
I can barely see you up there master. Is that really you? I don't pretend to be as learned as you but is it really old news that the Senate Judiciary Committee intends to probe this?

At this point there is no evidence Clinton was involved in decision making (which took place across multiple agencies), which is why it would be a huge story.

But it should be investigated (fairly!), given the allegations about bribery and coercion, no matter how high up the chain the wrongdoing, if any, occurred. If it results in criminal charges, so be it. No one should be above the law.

But, to use the Trump administration's term, when it comes to the Clintons specifically, it will probably turn out to be yet another "nothing burger", as all these GOP Clinton hunts invariably do. The more conspiracy minded will take that as yet more evidence of the Clintons' evil ways, skills and reach. Trump will use it to his advantage no matter what (" never mind my f**k ups, look at crooked Hillary!") while he himself ignores emoluments issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 21, 2017, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 21, 2017, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
I can barely see you up there master. Is that really you? I don't pretend to be as learned as you but is it really old news that the Senate Judiciary Committee intends to probe this?

Mr. Statistician and forum cop himself. As Mark Twain would say "There are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Says a lot about your credibility. As for the policing attempt, that has given us a deeper look into your character.  Sure you felt you had the backing of the herd, the great unwashed. That too did not go to you liking, the Fox is still around.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 21, 2017, 07:47:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2017, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 21, 2017, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
I can barely see you up there master. Is that really you? I don't pretend to be as learned as you but is it really old news that the Senate Judiciary Committee intends to probe this?

At this point there is no evidence Clinton was involved in decision making (which took place across multiple agencies), which is why it would be a huge story.

But it should be investigated (fairly!), given the allegations about bribery and coercion, no matter how high up the chain the wrongdoing, if any, occurred. If it results in criminal charges, so be it. No one should be above the law.

But, to use the Trump administration's term, when it comes to the Clintons specifically, it will probably turn out to be yet another "nothing burger", as all these GOP Clinton hunts invariably do. The more conspiracy minded will take that as yet more evidence of the Clintons' evil ways, skills and reach. Trump will use it to his advantage no matter what (" never mind my f**k ups, look at crooked Hillary!") while he himself ignores emoluments issues.

So who should investigate this? Robert Mueller? Will they roll back in James Comey the great protector of Her Highness? They both are up to their eyeballs in this. No point in having the Republicans doing the investigation either, all but a few are compromised in other matters and will not upset "The Club".

A proper Independent Council is needed that will not abuse it's power, otherwise this will get litigated and the criminals will get off once again. All we'll get from the blind followers is that "it was litigated, no evidence was found, lets move on".

Washington DC is the greatest enemy of the American people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 21, 2017, 09:03:27 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 21, 2017, 07:47:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2017, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 21, 2017, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
I can barely see you up there master. Is that really you? I don't pretend to be as learned as you but is it really old news that the Senate Judiciary Committee intends to probe this?

At this point there is no evidence Clinton was involved in decision making (which took place across multiple agencies), which is why it would be a huge story.

But it should be investigated (fairly!), given the allegations about bribery and coercion, no matter how high up the chain the wrongdoing, if any, occurred. If it results in criminal charges, so be it. No one should be above the law.

But, to use the Trump administration's term, when it comes to the Clintons specifically, it will probably turn out to be yet another "nothing burger", as all these GOP Clinton hunts invariably do. The more conspiracy minded will take that as yet more evidence of the Clintons' evil ways, skills and reach. Trump will use it to his advantage no matter what (" never mind my f**k ups, look at crooked Hillary!") while he himself ignores emoluments issues.

So who should investigate this? Robert Mueller? Will they roll back in James Comey the great protector of Her Highness? They both are up to their eyeballs in this. No point in having the Republicans doing the investigation either, all but a few are compromised in other matters and will not upset "The Club".

A proper Independent Council is needed that will not abuse it's power, otherwise this will get litigated and the criminals will get off once again. All we'll get from the blind followers is that "it was litigated, no evidence was found, lets move on".

Washington DC is the greatest enemy of the American people.
the parasites who own 50% of everything are the enemy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 21, 2017, 09:13:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 21, 2017, 09:03:27 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 21, 2017, 07:47:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2017, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 21, 2017, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
I can barely see you up there master. Is that really you? I don't pretend to be as learned as you but is it really old news that the Senate Judiciary Committee intends to probe this?

At this point there is no evidence Clinton was involved in decision making (which took place across multiple agencies), which is why it would be a huge story.

But it should be investigated (fairly!), given the allegations about bribery and coercion, no matter how high up the chain the wrongdoing, if any, occurred. If it results in criminal charges, so be it. No one should be above the law.

But, to use the Trump administration's term, when it comes to the Clintons specifically, it will probably turn out to be yet another "nothing burger", as all these GOP Clinton hunts invariably do. The more conspiracy minded will take that as yet more evidence of the Clintons' evil ways, skills and reach. Trump will use it to his advantage no matter what (" never mind my f**k ups, look at crooked Hillary!") while he himself ignores emoluments issues.

So who should investigate this? Robert Mueller? Will they roll back in James Comey the great protector of Her Highness? They both are up to their eyeballs in this. No point in having the Republicans doing the investigation either, all but a few are compromised in other matters and will not upset "The Club".

A proper Independent Council is needed that will not abuse it's power, otherwise this will get litigated and the criminals will get off once again. All we'll get from the blind followers is that "it was litigated, no evidence was found, lets move on".

Washington DC is the greatest enemy of the American people.
the parasites who own 50% of everything are the enemy.

The parasites that voted for hrc are the enemy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 21, 2017, 09:43:39 PM
Speaking of parasites

QuoteLast January, six months after Fox News ousted its chairman amid a sexual harassment scandal, the network's top-rated host at the time, Bill O'Reilly, struck a $32 million agreement with a longtime network analyst to settle new sexual harassment allegations, according to two people briefed on the matter — an extraordinarily large amount for such cases.

Although the deal has not been previously made public, the network's parent company, 21st Century Fox, acknowledges that it was aware of the woman's complaints about Mr. O'Reilly. They included allegations of repeated harassment, a nonconsensual sexual relationship and the sending of gay pornography and other sexually explicit material to her, according to the people briefed on the matter.

It was at least the sixth agreement — and by far the largest — made by either Mr. O'Reilly or the company to settle harassment allegations against him. Despite that record, 21st Century Fox began contract negotiations with Mr. O'Reilly, and in February granted him a four-year extension that paid $25 million a year.

Interviews with people familiar with the settlement, and documents obtained by The New York Times, show how the company tried and ultimately failed to contain the second wave of a sexual harassment crisis that initially burst into public view the previous summer and cost the Fox News chairman, Roger Ailes, and eventually Mr. O'Reilly, their jobs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 21, 2017, 10:32:27 PM
So yet again it appears that the focus in what Trump says/does is taking the eye away from the real story. This time the noise and attention is on what he said or did not say to the widow of a soldier killed in Africa. The teal story appears to be how he was killed, Trumps Benghazi, as I have seen it described.
Any reports into the ambush seem to be painting to a lack of Intel, a lack of support and the incompetence of subcontracted private sector support resulting in a soldier being left behind. However the story is the conversation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on October 22, 2017, 01:39:40 AM
Well, Trump's biggest Pastor supporter from the Christian Evangilical has stated that Catholicism is a Cult.

Pastor Robert Jeffress, who Trump just the other day tweeted about the other day as " a wondeful man!", has stated that Satan Created the Catholic Church.

Audio here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI0MBgA7ckA

Story here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/did-satan-create-catholicism-trump-175533867.html

It is INSANE that we have people like Jeffress influencing an already deranged President!!!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 22, 2017, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 22, 2017, 01:39:40 AM
Well, Trump's biggest Pastor supporter from the Christian Evangilical has stated that Catholicism is a Cult.

Pastor Robert Jeffress, who Trump just the other day tweeted about the other day as " a wondeful man!", has stated that Satan Created the Catholic Church.

Audio here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI0MBgA7ckA

Story here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/did-satan-create-catholicism-trump-175533867.html

It is INSANE that we have people like Jeffress influencing an already deranged President!!!!

Jefress is one of many Protestant ministers who preach the Catholic Church is of Satan, I have heard it myself at a Baptist Church I was invited to by a pastor Friend from England, he was mortified when one of his ministers condemned the Catholic Church for a good fifteen minutes, he apologised to us up and down but we never went back and the pastor was told he was an ill informed liar and a charlatan, it happens at most if not all protestant places of worship in the US.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 22, 2017, 07:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".

There's quite a lot that do J70.

There's even people on the left who pay attention to James Corden as some sore of role model ffs.
F*t t**ser.

And there's quite a lot of conservatives who pay attention to Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and even Kid Rock, Ted Nugent and Charlie Daniels (why does "shut up and sing!" not apply to them?).

And I didn't even know James Corden had ever uttered a political opinion in public. He's renowned for his karaoke in the car skits.

The f*t t*t has been at it on his late night show. As if he wasn't already insufferable :D

At what?

Has he been telling jokes at the expense of poor widdle Donald?

The liberal mouthbreathers in the audience at the likes of Corden, Ellen, Kimmel etc would be cheering if the host took a dump on the floor and told them to clap. Speaking of turds

MSNBC's Joy Reid had announced that Irish people are all racists and wife beaters in her attempt to denounce John Kelly.

"Kelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected"

Then Frederica Wilson tried to claw back some credibility by saying that the phrase "empty barrel" which Kelly called her is a racist term. Scraping the bottom of the barrel more like it. Same old tactics when you've been caught out. Play the race card and call for Rev Al and the MSM.

So to all my liberal friends here isn't it great to be stereotyped? Which one of you are going to call for Reid's head?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 22, 2017, 08:27:42 PM
QuoteThe liberal mouthbreathers

keep trying Foxy keep trying.
Speaking of Fox, here'll be nobody left there left by the end of next year at this rate, that one of the leading lights of the right haven't assaulted, last woman out turn the lights off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 22, 2017, 10:00:34 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 22, 2017, 08:27:42 PM
QuoteThe liberal mouthbreathers

keep trying Foxy keep trying.
Speaking of Fox, here'll be nobody left there left by the end of next year at this rate, that one of the leading lights of the right haven't assaulted, last woman out turn the lights off.
[/q

Disgusting post by a complete hypocrite!
Rapists are rapists, predators are predators, their predilections are far more important to them than their allegiances to political entities, that said hegan, what you just posted is absolutely false and congratulations for showing yourself up for the leftist apologist that you are!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 22, 2017, 10:33:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 22, 2017, 08:27:42 PM
QuoteThe liberal mouthbreathers

keep trying Foxy keep trying.
Speaking of Fox, here'll be nobody left there left by the end of next year at this rate, that one of the leading lights of the right haven't assaulted, last woman out turn the lights off.

There is no better way to describe them.

Nothing to say on Joy Reid? Do you agree?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2017, 11:32:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 22, 2017, 07:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".

There's quite a lot that do J70.

There's even people on the left who pay attention to James Corden as some sore of role model ffs.
F*t t**ser.

And there's quite a lot of conservatives who pay attention to Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and even Kid Rock, Ted Nugent and Charlie Daniels (why does "shut up and sing!" not apply to them?).

And I didn't even know James Corden had ever uttered a political opinion in public. He's renowned for his karaoke in the car skits.

The f*t t*t has been at it on his late night show. As if he wasn't already insufferable :D

At what?

Has he been telling jokes at the expense of poor widdle Donald?

The liberal mouthbreathers in the audience at the likes of Corden, Ellen, Kimmel etc would be cheering if the host took a dump on the floor and told them to clap. Speaking of turds

MSNBC's Joy Reid had announced that Irish people are all racists and wife beaters in her attempt to denounce John Kelly.

"Kelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected"

Then Frederica Wilson tried to claw back some credibility by saying that the phrase "empty barrel" which Kelly called her is a racist term. Scraping the bottom of the barrel more like it. Same old tactics when you've been caught out. Play the race card and call for Rev Al and the MSM.

So to all my liberal friends here isn't it great to be stereotyped? Which one of you are going to call for Reid's head?

Not to defend what she said (I don't know enough about 1950s Boston to comment, but they certainly didn't take school desegregation efforts lightly in the 70s), but where did Joy Reid say " Irish people are all racists and wife beaters"?

As for Reid herself, take her head if you like. I never heard of her before your post. But I certainly don't feel impugned (neither do you, unless you're also a product of 50s Boston?).

Boston does seem to be a "special" place though when it comes to racial issues. The Red Sox (the LAST MLB team to integrate) had to publicly apologise to a black baseball player THIS YEAR for the racist abuse he suffered. CC Sabathia has said Fenway is the only place he's ever been racially abused while playing. His words on the matter: "We know. There's 62 of us. We all know. When you go to Boston, expect it".

The five Boston major league sports teams are currently trying an initiative to cut down on racial abuse from fans. But, I'm sure there's Irish American Bostonians involved in these incidents...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2017, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2017, 11:32:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 22, 2017, 07:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".

There's quite a lot that do J70.

There's even people on the left who pay attention to James Corden as some sore of role model ffs.
F*t t**ser.

And there's quite a lot of conservatives who pay attention to Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and even Kid Rock, Ted Nugent and Charlie Daniels (why does "shut up and sing!" not apply to them?).

And I didn't even know James Corden had ever uttered a political opinion in public. He's renowned for his karaoke in the car skits.

The f*t t*t has been at it on his late night show. As if he wasn't already insufferable :D

At what?

Has he been telling jokes at the expense of poor widdle Donald?

The liberal mouthbreathers in the audience at the likes of Corden, Ellen, Kimmel etc would be cheering if the host took a dump on the floor and told them to clap. Speaking of turds

MSNBC's Joy Reid had announced that Irish people are all racists and wife beaters in her attempt to denounce John Kelly.

"Kelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected"

Then Frederica Wilson tried to claw back some credibility by saying that the phrase "empty barrel" which Kelly called her is a racist term. Scraping the bottom of the barrel more like it. Same old tactics when you've been caught out. Play the race card and call for Rev Al and the MSM.

So to all my liberal friends here isn't it great to be stereotyped? Which one of you are going to call for Reid's head?

Not to defend what she said (I don't know enough about 1950s Boston to comment, but they certainly didn't take school desegregation efforts lightly in the 70s), but where did Joy Reid say " Irish people are all racists and wife beaters"?

As for Reid herself, take her head if you like. I never heard of her before your post. But I certainly don't feel impugned (neither do you, unless you're also a product of 50s Boston?).

Boston does seem to be a "special" place though when it comes to racial issues. The Red Sox (the LAST MLB team to integrate) had to publicly apologise to a black baseball player THIS YEAR for the racist abuse he suffered. CC Sabathia has said Fenway is the only place he's ever been racially abused while playing. His words on the matter: "We know. There's 62 of us. We all know. When you go to Boston, expect it".

The five Boston major league sports teams are currently trying an initiative to cut down on racial abuse from fans. But, I'm sure there's Irish American Bostonians involved in these incidents...

Whenever Liberals are losing an argument they start accusing people of rascism.....its the oldest trick in the book. 

FFS after the last election, voters who voted for Obama twice but switched to Trump were accused of rascism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2017, 12:01:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2017, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2017, 11:32:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 22, 2017, 07:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".

There's quite a lot that do J70.

There's even people on the left who pay attention to James Corden as some sore of role model ffs.
F*t t**ser.

And there's quite a lot of conservatives who pay attention to Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and even Kid Rock, Ted Nugent and Charlie Daniels (why does "shut up and sing!" not apply to them?).

And I didn't even know James Corden had ever uttered a political opinion in public. He's renowned for his karaoke in the car skits.

The f*t t*t has been at it on his late night show. As if he wasn't already insufferable :D

At what?

Has he been telling jokes at the expense of poor widdle Donald?

The liberal mouthbreathers in the audience at the likes of Corden, Ellen, Kimmel etc would be cheering if the host took a dump on the floor and told them to clap. Speaking of turds

MSNBC's Joy Reid had announced that Irish people are all racists and wife beaters in her attempt to denounce John Kelly.

"Kelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected"

Then Frederica Wilson tried to claw back some credibility by saying that the phrase "empty barrel" which Kelly called her is a racist term. Scraping the bottom of the barrel more like it. Same old tactics when you've been caught out. Play the race card and call for Rev Al and the MSM.

So to all my liberal friends here isn't it great to be stereotyped? Which one of you are going to call for Reid's head?

Not to defend what she said (I don't know enough about 1950s Boston to comment, but they certainly didn't take school desegregation efforts lightly in the 70s), but where did Joy Reid say " Irish people are all racists and wife beaters"?

As for Reid herself, take her head if you like. I never heard of her before your post. But I certainly don't feel impugned (neither do you, unless you're also a product of 50s Boston?).

Boston does seem to be a "special" place though when it comes to racial issues. The Red Sox (the LAST MLB team to integrate) had to publicly apologise to a black baseball player THIS YEAR for the racist abuse he suffered. CC Sabathia has said Fenway is the only place he's ever been racially abused while playing. His words on the matter: "We know. There's 62 of us. We all know. When you go to Boston, expect it".

The five Boston major league sports teams are currently trying an initiative to cut down on racial abuse from fans. But, I'm sure there's Irish American Bostonians involved in these incidents...

Whenever Liberals are losing an argument they start accusing people of rascism.....its the oldest trick in the book. 

FFS after the last election, voters who voted for Obama twice but switched to Trump were accused of rascism

Who did I accuse of racism?

What have I said that is untrue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2017, 12:12:28 AM
Quote from: stew on October 23, 2017, 12:08:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2017, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2017, 11:32:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 22, 2017, 07:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 16, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 14, 2017, 03:10:13 PM
Liberals seem to thing that the entire country is hanging on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel.

Really? Who claims that?

Foxcommander is the only one who brings Lemon up here. I've seen him on tv once, interviewing a bunch of eejits in the Keys, drinking it up while everyone else evacuated a few weeks back.

And Kimmel raised a lot of awareness about the issues with GOP attempts to reform healthcare. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he used his platform and was influential.

If only the same attention could be brought to what us going on in the EPA and Interior Dept.

My liberal Facebook friends claim that

The fawning over the late night comedy shows to the Las Vegas shooting was hilarious....who actually gives a $hit what these people think

LOL-And Jimmy Kimmel even got his talking points on healthcare from Chuck Schumers office

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/22/chuck-schumer-coached-jimmy-kimmel-behind-the-scenes-on-how-to-oppose-obamacare-repeal/

Do you think his viewers got a fair and unbiased interpretation of the issues?

Your Facebook friends = liberals.

Well by that standard based on some of my wife's relatives on my Facebook feed, Glenn Beck and Fox News and various other right wing commentators have the country spellbound with THEIR "wisdom".

And if you're going to whine about Kimmel getting talking points on some issue, you should pick a topic other than guns and the Vegas massacre. There is one rational and one irrational side, not two equally valid stances.

I never said  ALL liberals.....just Liberals generally.

I'm sure conservatives generally would agree with Glen Beck and Bill O Reilly more than they would agree with Rachel Maddow or Chris Hays

You didn't say "agree".

You spoke about them (liberals in general - i.e. most) apparently thinking that the whole country hang "on every word of people like Don Lemon and Jimmy Kimmel".

There's quite a lot that do J70.

There's even people on the left who pay attention to James Corden as some sore of role model ffs.
F*t t**ser.

And there's quite a lot of conservatives who pay attention to Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and even Kid Rock, Ted Nugent and Charlie Daniels (why does "shut up and sing!" not apply to them?).

And I didn't even know James Corden had ever uttered a political opinion in public. He's renowned for his karaoke in the car skits.

The f*t t*t has been at it on his late night show. As if he wasn't already insufferable :D

At what?

Has he been telling jokes at the expense of poor widdle Donald?

The liberal mouthbreathers in the audience at the likes of Corden, Ellen, Kimmel etc would be cheering if the host took a dump on the floor and told them to clap. Speaking of turds

MSNBC's Joy Reid had announced that Irish people are all racists and wife beaters in her attempt to denounce John Kelly.

"Kelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected"

Then Frederica Wilson tried to claw back some credibility by saying that the phrase "empty barrel" which Kelly called her is a racist term. Scraping the bottom of the barrel more like it. Same old tactics when you've been caught out. Play the race card and call for Rev Al and the MSM.

So to all my liberal friends here isn't it great to be stereotyped? Which one of you are going to call for Reid's head?

Not to defend what she said (I don't know enough about 1950s Boston to comment, but they certainly didn't take school desegregation efforts lightly in the 70s), but where did Joy Reid say " Irish people are all racists and wife beaters"?

As for Reid herself, take her head if you like. I never heard of her before your post. But I certainly don't feel impugned (neither do you, unless you're also a product of 50s Boston?).

Boston does seem to be a "special" place though when it comes to racial issues. The Red Sox (the LAST MLB team to integrate) had to publicly apologise to a black baseball player THIS YEAR for the racist abuse he suffered. CC Sabathia has said Fenway is the only place he's ever been racially abused while playing. His words on the matter: "We know. There's 62 of us. We all know. When you go to Boston, expect it".

The five Boston major league sports teams are currently trying an initiative to cut down on racial abuse from fans. But, I'm sure there's Irish American Bostonians involved in these incidents...

Whenever Liberals are losing an argument they start accusing people of rascism.....its the oldest trick in the book. 

FFS after the last election, voters who voted for Obama twice but switched to Trump were accused of rascism

The most racist people I have ever met are liberals.

And the most racist people I have ever met are conservatives.

There's a reason the GOP took over the south and continues to use racially tinged cultural wedge issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 23, 2017, 12:44:08 AM
Well then youve never been to the (white part) of Chicago's South Side or South Boston...Democratic as the day is long and until recently a black person wouldnt have been safe to ealk down the street
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2017, 01:18:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 23, 2017, 12:44:08 AM
Well then youve never been to the (white part) of Chicago's South Side or South Boston...Democratic as the day is long and until recently a black person wouldnt have been safe to ealk down the street

You're confusing me.

I pointed to the history and reputation of Boston and its continuing problem with a certain element when it comes to sports, and you accused me of playing the race card. Now, a few minutes later, you're confirming that parts of Boston have until recently been an unsafe place for black people.

BTW, I've never denied that racist people might vote Democratic or that Democratic-leaning districts might contain racist people. But there is only one party that runs on white resentment and has had two different chairmen apologize over the past decade or so for that fact, once in front of the NAACP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 23, 2017, 02:00:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2017, 01:18:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 23, 2017, 12:44:08 AM
Well then youve never been to the (white part) of Chicago's South Side or South Boston...Democratic as the day is long and until recently a black person wouldnt have been safe to ealk down the street

You're confusing me.

I pointed to the history and reputation of Boston and its continuing problem with a certain element when it comes to sports, and you accused me of playing the race card. Now, a few minutes later, you're confirming that parts of Boston have until recently been an unsafe place for black people.

BTW, I've never denied that racist people might vote Democratic or that Democratic-leaning districts might contain racist people. But there is only one party that runs on white resentment and has had two different chairmen apologize over the past decade or so for that fact, once in front of the NAACP.

There are extremely rascist people in South Boston and South side of Chicago, but to say that EVERYONE from those neighborhoods is rascist is no different than someone saying all black people are criminals.  (The MSNBC person alluded to this not you, and for her information Brighton, while Irish, is nothing like South Boston.....that would be like saying Tallaght and Foxrock are similar because theyre both South of the Liffey)

You said the most rascist people you have met were Republicans....the most rascist people I ever met were Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 23, 2017, 05:18:25 AM
Quotethat said hegan, what you just posted is absolutely false and congratulations for showing yourself up for the leftist apologist that you are
Hypocrite, yes I am daily.
False though? Which part? Ailes and O'Reilly are racking up quite a list that is coming to light. Certainly a bit of hyperbole on my behalf, but not false.

It is great to see the abusers of power getting called out whether they be right left or middle of the road, and we can cherry pick to our hearts desire to justify our opinions to ourselves.

Joy Reid?
You mean this quote?
QuoteKelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected.

I think you'll find she's quoting Lawrene o Donnell? No?

As I have said on here before, the older Irish American demographic is in my own experience one of the most racist, intolerant groups in the North East.

Can Lawrence o Donnell use that to call out Kelly, I would have to say no chance, baseless and generalized bullshit.

I did have a lot of my hopes for this administration pinned firmly on Kelly's shoulders until this week though.  He fell into the trap of believing the briefings.  Can only assume that these are the same unchecked nonsense being doled out to other WH staff. Did he lose his moral authority as Friedman said? Bit of a stretch, but apologizing would be a great step forward. Doubling down and the swamp gets deeper.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2017, 11:24:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 23, 2017, 02:00:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2017, 01:18:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 23, 2017, 12:44:08 AM
Well then youve never been to the (white part) of Chicago's South Side or South Boston...Democratic as the day is long and until recently a black person wouldnt have been safe to ealk down the street

You're confusing me.

I pointed to the history and reputation of Boston and its continuing problem with a certain element when it comes to sports, and you accused me of playing the race card. Now, a few minutes later, you're confirming that parts of Boston have until recently been an unsafe place for black people.

BTW, I've never denied that racist people might vote Democratic or that Democratic-leaning districts might contain racist people. But there is only one party that runs on white resentment and has had two different chairmen apologize over the past decade or so for that fact, once in front of the NAACP.

There are extremely rascist people in South Boston and South side of Chicago, but to say that EVERYONE from those neighborhoods is rascist is no different than someone saying all black people are criminals.  (The MSNBC person alluded to this not you, and for her information Brighton, while Irish, is nothing like South Boston.....that would be like saying Tallaght and Foxrock are similar because theyre both South of the Liffey)

You said the most rascist people you have met were Republicans....the most rascist people I ever met were Democrats

That statement though, while true, was a pointless catty response to stew's pointless response. The equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?" So what if the most racist person or people you've ever met is or are Republican or Democrat? Doesn't really mean shit, same as any anecdote. What means something is what the party as a whole stands for and exploits and courts and tolerates.

Anyway, on the Kelly thing, I don't really care about Joy Reid. If she fucked up, then let her pay the price. There's bad behaviour all around on this issue, but Trump is the narcissistic idiot who initially politicized what should be a non-partisan issue concerning the understandably difficult task of reaching out to bereaved families of dead soldiers.

At this point I'm getting exhausted by Trump's appalling personal behaviour and faked culture war shit and am tuning out. Far more worrying to me is what's going on behind the circus with the EPA, Interior Dept, these proposed tax cuts, his sabotage of Obamacare, Dreamers and so on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 23, 2017, 12:40:58 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2017, 05:18:25 AM
Quotethat said hegan, what you just posted is absolutely false and congratulations for showing yourself up for the leftist apologist that you are
Hypocrite, yes I am daily.
False though? Which part? Ailes and O'Reilly are racking up quite a list that is coming to light. Certainly a bit of hyperbole on my behalf, but not false.

It is great to see the abusers of power getting called out whether they be right left or middle of the road, and we can cherry pick to our hearts desire to justify our opinions to ourselves.

Joy Reid?
You mean this quote?
QuoteKelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected.

I think you'll find she's quoting Lawrene o Donnell? No?

As I have said on here before, the older Irish American demographic is in my own experience one of the most racist, intolerant groups in the North East.

Can Lawrence o Donnell use that to call out Kelly, I would have to say no chance, baseless and generalized bullshit.

I did have a lot of my hopes for this administration pinned firmly on Kelly's shoulders until this week though.  He fell into the trap of believing the briefings.  Can only assume that these are the same unchecked nonsense being doled out to other WH staff. Did he lose his moral authority as Friedman said? Bit of a stretch, but apologizing would be a great step forward. Doubling down and the swamp gets deeper.


Now that I think of it, the Kennedys have very strong ties to Brighton......and we all know about the Kennedys and violence against women.....breathtaking arrogance and hypocrisy from MSNBC, but I would expect no less
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 23, 2017, 02:54:24 PM
So the Wife has come out on the side of Rep. Wilson . . . and Trump is arguing with her over Twitter.

The whole world is fucked lads!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2017, 03:02:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 23, 2017, 02:54:24 PM
So the Wife has come out on the side of Rep. Wilson . . . and Trump is arguing with her over Twitter.

The whole world is fucked lads!

The thing is that, leaving aside his alleged failure to follow up with the families in the first place, most people accept that this type of phone call is not easy and would give him a pass if he managed to screw it up through wrong choice of words or simple awkwardness (although I would expect that he could easily get advice of how to handle it).

But he is incapable of admitting even the most minor of mistakes and so proceeds to completely blow the incident out of all proportion and now he has a public row on his hands with the wife and mother of a soldier who just died for his country in dodgy circumstances.

Good luck with that, Trump (although I'm sure Fox New, Breitbart, Limbaugh and the rest are, as we speak, getting started on the character assassinations of the family).


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 23, 2017, 04:19:15 PM
Trump is  a fvckin disgrace....end of!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2017, 06:02:40 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2017, 05:18:25 AM
Joy Reid?
You mean this quote?
QuoteKelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected.

I think you'll find she's quoting Lawrene o Donnell? No?

The problem is that Joy Reid has absolutely no knowledge of what she is tweeting. It's disgusting stereotyping of a nation.
She added the women being bullied piece herself.

So the irish bully and beat their women according to Ms Reid.
Strangely there doesn't seem to be the clamour from the MSM for her head. I wonder why.
You could be sure if something like this was said about another group it would be headline news.

The liberal conditioning continues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2017, 06:38:50 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 21, 2017, 07:47:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2017, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 21, 2017, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
I can barely see you up there master. Is that really you? I don't pretend to be as learned as you but is it really old news that the Senate Judiciary Committee intends to probe this?

At this point there is no evidence Clinton was involved in decision making (which took place across multiple agencies), which is why it would be a huge story.

But it should be investigated (fairly!), given the allegations about bribery and coercion, no matter how high up the chain the wrongdoing, if any, occurred. If it results in criminal charges, so be it. No one should be above the law.

But, to use the Trump administration's term, when it comes to the Clintons specifically, it will probably turn out to be yet another "nothing burger", as all these GOP Clinton hunts invariably do. The more conspiracy minded will take that as yet more evidence of the Clintons' evil ways, skills and reach. Trump will use it to his advantage no matter what (" never mind my f**k ups, look at crooked Hillary!") while he himself ignores emoluments issues.

So who should investigate this? Robert Mueller? Will they roll back in James Comey the great protector of Her Highness? They both are up to their eyeballs in this. No point in having the Republicans doing the investigation either, all but a few are compromised in other matters and will not upset "The Club".

A proper Independent Council is needed that will not abuse it's power, otherwise this will get litigated and the criminals will get off once again. All we'll get from the blind followers is that "it was litigated, no evidence was found, lets move on".

Washington DC is the greatest enemy of the American people.

1. How is Comey the "great protector of her highness" when he arguably cost her election by putting the final nail in her coffin with the letter to congress about Weiner's laptop (which ultimately revealed nothing new) less than two weeks out?

2. I fully agree that such investigations should be led by an independent counsel, but how many on the GOP side are complaining about Mueller, one of their own! What would they say about someone with no connection to either party? Fact is that no matter WHO it is, once they start asking tough questions and issuing subpoenas, the side under investigation is going to start whining about it and trying to discredit the inquiry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 23, 2017, 09:20:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2017, 03:02:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 23, 2017, 02:54:24 PM
So the Wife has come out on the side of Rep. Wilson . . . and Trump is arguing with her over Twitter.

The whole world is fucked lads!

The thing is that, leaving aside his alleged failure to follow up with the families in the first place, most people accept that this type of phone call is not easy and would give him a pass if he managed to screw it up through wrong choice of words or simple awkwardness (although I would expect that he could easily get advice of how to handle it).

But he is incapable of admitting even the most minor of mistakes and so proceeds to completely blow the incident out of all proportion and now he has a public row on his hands with the wife and mother of a soldier who just died for his country in dodgy circumstances.

Good luck with that, Trump (although I'm sure Fox New, Breitbart, Limbaugh and the rest are, as we speak, getting started on the character assassinations of the family).

I don't think so. He doesn't get a free pass because the job he's supposed to do is too difficult for him. He's the President of the United States. He's supposed to have enough personal qualities to do this sort of thing competently. Christ, even GW Bush would have managed to do this part of the job without making a complete pig's ear of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2017, 11:24:41 PM
Jeff Flake now pulling out of his reelection bid amidst the GOP's continued descent into insanity.

In case you had any doubt that President Trump is transforming the GOP, chasing out moderates and independent-minded conservatives, Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) should have cleared that up with a blockbuster announcement that, like Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), he will not be running for reelection.

In a jab at those colleagues who have reinvented themselves for the sake of the Trump base, he had some pointed words: "Here's the bottom line: The path that I would have to travel to get the Republican nomination is a path I'm not willing to take, and that I can't in good conscience take. It would require me to believe in positions I don't hold on such issues as trade and immigration and it would require me to condone behavior that I cannot condone." In other words, it would force him to be a hypocrite like Vice President Pence, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan and Virginia GOP gubernatorial nominee Ed Gillespie, all of whom refuse to take on Trump in any meaningful way and seek to cater to his nationalistic, nativist base.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/10/24/flake-leaves-the-trumpified-gop/?utm_term=.56aa1591a892#comments (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/10/24/flake-leaves-the-trumpified-gop/?utm_term=.56aa1591a892#comments)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 25, 2017, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2017, 06:02:40 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2017, 05:18:25 AM
Joy Reid?
You mean this quote?
QuoteKelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected.

I think you'll find she's quoting Lawrene o Donnell? No?

The problem is that Joy Reid has absolutely no knowledge of what she is tweeting. It's disgusting stereotyping of a nation.
She added the women being bullied piece herself.

So the irish bully and beat their women according to Ms Reid.
Strangely there doesn't seem to be the clamour from the MSM for her head. I wonder why.
You could be sure if something like this was said about another group it would be headline news.

The liberal conditioning continues.

They are sheep, they think Obamacare is wonderful and they are doing everything they can to f**k up in 2020 bless them, as bad as Trump is, and he is as bad as Obama in some ways, I would prefer him to win over any democrat that will run at this stage because they are all awful bastards, incompetents scurrying to the left, following that putrid toxic bitch Pelosi and her ilk! f**k that.

The GOP are moral cowards, the NRA needs taken down but will never be in our lifetimes and Obamacare is a never ending nightmare that cant get fixed by the incompetents in power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on October 25, 2017, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 21, 2017, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 21, 2017, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
I can barely see you up there master. Is that really you? I don't pretend to be as learned as you but is it really old news that the Senate Judiciary Committee intends to probe this?

Mr. Statistician and forum cop himself. As Mark Twain would say "There are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Says a lot about your credibility. As for the policing attempt, that has given us a deeper look into your character.  Sure you felt you had the backing of the herd, the great unwashed. That too did not go to you liking, the Fox is still around.
Missed this and maybe it wasn't for me, but as it was a reply to my post, just for the record, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2017, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2017, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2017, 06:02:40 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2017, 05:18:25 AM
Joy Reid?
You mean this quote?
QuoteKelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected.

I think you'll find she's quoting Lawrene o Donnell? No?

The problem is that Joy Reid has absolutely no knowledge of what she is tweeting. It's disgusting stereotyping of a nation.
She added the women being bullied piece herself.

So the irish bully and beat their women according to Ms Reid.
Strangely there doesn't seem to be the clamour from the MSM for her head. I wonder why.
You could be sure if something like this was said about another group it would be headline news.

The liberal conditioning continues.

They are sheep, they think Obamacare is wonderful and they are doing everything they can to f**k up in 2020 bless them, as bad as Trump is, and he is as bad as Obama in some ways, I would prefer him to win over any democrat that will run at this stage because they are all awful b**tards, incompetents scurrying to the left, following that putrid toxic bitch Pelosi and her ilk! f**k that.

The GOP are moral cowards, the NRA needs taken down but will never be in our lifetimes and Obamacare is a never ending nightmare that cant get fixed by the incompetents in power.

"Sheep" says the man who regurgitates conspiracy theories about Hillary and all kinds of vacuous GOP talking points.

And everyone acknowledges that Obamacare has problems which need to be addressed. Key thing is that, on the whole, it is vastly more popular than what the Republicans have been trying to foist on the population as a replacement. At the very least, three failed attempts in the senate in the past six months should clue you in on that.

And seriously, you'd prefer Trump to ANY Democrat? He is as bad as Obama in "some ways"?

What ways stew?

As for scurrying to the left, have you nothing to say on the purge going on in the GOP where fairly hardline conservatives like Flake and Corker are now too moderate for election and, according to Flake, even membership, in the era of Trump, Bannon and the alt right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 25, 2017, 12:11:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2017, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2017, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2017, 06:02:40 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2017, 05:18:25 AM
Joy Reid?
You mean this quote?
QuoteKelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected.

I think you'll find she's quoting Lawrene o Donnell? No?

The problem is that Joy Reid has absolutely no knowledge of what she is tweeting. It's disgusting stereotyping of a nation.
She added the women being bullied piece herself.

So the irish bully and beat their women according to Ms Reid.
Strangely there doesn't seem to be the clamour from the MSM for her head. I wonder why.
You could be sure if something like this was said about another group it would be headline news.

The liberal conditioning continues.

They are sheep, they think Obamacare is wonderful and they are doing everything they can to f**k up in 2020 bless them, as bad as Trump is, and he is as bad as Obama in some ways, I would prefer him to win over any democrat that will run at this stage because they are all awful b**tards, incompetents scurrying to the left, following that putrid toxic bitch Pelosi and her ilk! f**k that.

The GOP are moral cowards, the NRA needs taken down but will never be in our lifetimes and Obamacare is a never ending nightmare that cant get fixed by the incompetents in power.

"Sheep" says the man who regurgitates conspiracy theories about Hillary and all kinds of vacuous GOP talking points.

And everyone acknowledges that Obamacare has problems which need to be addressed. Key thing is that, on the whole, it is vastly more popular than what the Republicans have been trying to foist on the population as a replacement. At the very least, three failed attempts in the senate in the past six months should clue you in on that.

And seriously, you'd prefer Trump to ANY Democrat? He is as bad as Obama in "some ways"?

What ways stew?

As for scurrying to the left, have you nothing to say on the purge going on in the GOP where fairly hardline conservatives like Flake and Corker are now too moderate for election and, according to Flake, even membership, in the era of Trump, Bannon and the alt right?

Hillary Clinton is rotten to her core, that you cannot and will not accept means there is no point conversing with you, you are too far gone.

I prefer the right to the left in the states, its not even close to be honest,  that is why I tend to highlight the lefts issues rather than the GOP's, what I meant to say was I would prefer Trump to any current leadership candidate the liberals have because they are all far left wing nuts who would destroy the country financially and morally.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 25, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
But you said you'd vote for Bernie??

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2017, 02:11:08 PM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2017, 12:11:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2017, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: stew on October 25, 2017, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2017, 06:02:40 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2017, 05:18:25 AM
Joy Reid?
You mean this quote?
QuoteKelly grew up in segregated Boston, in an Irish Catholic neighborhood where women were bullied, not honored, and blacks scorned & rejected.

I think you'll find she's quoting Lawrene o Donnell? No?

The problem is that Joy Reid has absolutely no knowledge of what she is tweeting. It's disgusting stereotyping of a nation.
She added the women being bullied piece herself.

So the irish bully and beat their women according to Ms Reid.
Strangely there doesn't seem to be the clamour from the MSM for her head. I wonder why.
You could be sure if something like this was said about another group it would be headline news.

The liberal conditioning continues.

They are sheep, they think Obamacare is wonderful and they are doing everything they can to f**k up in 2020 bless them, as bad as Trump is, and he is as bad as Obama in some ways, I would prefer him to win over any democrat that will run at this stage because they are all awful b**tards, incompetents scurrying to the left, following that putrid toxic bitch Pelosi and her ilk! f**k that.

The GOP are moral cowards, the NRA needs taken down but will never be in our lifetimes and Obamacare is a never ending nightmare that cant get fixed by the incompetents in power.

"Sheep" says the man who regurgitates conspiracy theories about Hillary and all kinds of vacuous GOP talking points.

And everyone acknowledges that Obamacare has problems which need to be addressed. Key thing is that, on the whole, it is vastly more popular than what the Republicans have been trying to foist on the population as a replacement. At the very least, three failed attempts in the senate in the past six months should clue you in on that.

And seriously, you'd prefer Trump to ANY Democrat? He is as bad as Obama in "some ways"?

What ways stew?

As for scurrying to the left, have you nothing to say on the purge going on in the GOP where fairly hardline conservatives like Flake and Corker are now too moderate for election and, according to Flake, even membership, in the era of Trump, Bannon and the alt right?

Hillary Clinton is rotten to her core, that you cannot and will not accept means there is no point conversing with you, you are too far gone.

I prefer the right to the left in the states, its not even close to be honest,  that is why I tend to highlight the lefts issues rather than the GOP's, what I meant to say was I would prefer Trump to any current leadership candidate the liberals have because they are all far left wing nuts who would destroy the country financially and morally.

Take your straw man arguments elsewhere. Hillary may well be rotten to the core, but that wasn't the point. The point is you throwing about sheep labels when you're the very one who posts baseless nonsense straight out of right wing la la land about her being some kind of evil murderer.

As for moral and financial destruction, well how?

Moral - Gay rights? Environment? Social safety net? Diversity? Yeah, the liberals are the evil ones!

Financial- you like the right, the GOP who screamed and demagogued all through the Obama years about deficits and the second they get back control they (like Mick Mulvaney) declare deficits don't matter and are in fact necessary to foster economic growth (and large tax cuts for the rich and unnecessary military build up)?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 25, 2017, 02:48:36 PM
And last night - Senate Republicans just voted to nullify a rule that let consumers form class action lawsuits to sue banks or credit card companies.


Draining the swamp indeed - https://www.thedailybeast.com/dollar300m-puerto-rico-recovery-contract-awarded-to-tiny-utility-company-linked-to-major-trump-donor

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2017, 03:08:23 PM
@J70
The GOP spent 8 years whining about deficits and now all they want is tax cuts for billionaires.
GOP working class voters are shafted again and again. 

Via the Guardian


"Arizona senator Jeff Flake has launched an extraordinary attack against Donald Trumpand the "complicity" of the Republican party as he announced his decision to leave the Senate.

Flake, a key Republican critic of Trump, said he was retiring at the end of his term in 2018 because there was no room for him in the party under the current president's stewardship. He then delivered an emotional appeal from the Senate floor against the state of affairs under Trump, bemoaning that his Republican colleagues had "given in or given up on core principles in favor of a more viscerally satisfying anger and resentment".

Jeff Flake: conservatives face a crisis. We must now tell and expect the truth

"It is time for our complicity and our accommodation for the unacceptable to end," Flake said. "

We must stop pretending that the degradation of our politics and the conduct of some in our executive branch are normal."

"Reckless, outrageous, and undignified behavior has become excused and countenanced as 'telling it like it is' when it is actually just reckless, outrageous, and undignified."

He said such behavior was "dangerous to our democracy" and projected not strength but a "corruption of the spirit". He then asked his colleagues: "When the next generation asks us: 'Why didn't you do something? Why didn't you speak up? What are we going to say?'"

Hours before Flake's announcement, Trump's war of words with Corker escalated in unprecedented fashion ahead of a meeting between the president and SenateRepublicans on Capitol Hill. Prior to the closed-door luncheon, Corker branded Trump as an "utterly untruthful president" on NBC's Today Show.

The alliances and agreements that ensure the stability of the entire world are routinely threatened by the level of thought that goes into 140 characters," Flake said. "Would we Republicans meekly accept such behavior on display from dominant Democrats? Of course we wouldn't. And we would be wrong if we did.""

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2017, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 25, 2017, 02:48:36 PM
And last night - Senate Republicans just voted to nullify a rule that let consumers form class action lawsuits to sue banks or credit card companies.


Draining the swamp indeed - https://www.thedailybeast.com/dollar300m-puerto-rico-recovery-contract-awarded-to-tiny-utility-company-linked-to-major-trump-donor

Yeah, good luck with your arbitration hearing. That'll solve your problem.

And today the House GOP are threatening to do away with tax-deferred retirement saving (401Ks).

Have to pay for those tax cuts for the rich somehow.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2017, 03:34:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2017, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 25, 2017, 02:48:36 PM
And last night - Senate Republicans just voted to nullify a rule that let consumers form class action lawsuits to sue banks or credit card companies.


Draining the swamp indeed - https://www.thedailybeast.com/dollar300m-puerto-rico-recovery-contract-awarded-to-tiny-utility-company-linked-to-major-trump-donor

Yeah, good luck with your arbitration hearing. That'll solve your problem.

And today the House GOP are threatening to do away with tax-deferred retirement saving (401Ks).

Have to pay for those tax cuts for the rich somehow.
US wealth distribution.

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/557ef766ecad04fe50a257cd-960/screen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2017, 03:36:49 PM
Love will tear us apart

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/us/politics/republican-party-tax-cuts.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2017, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 25, 2017, 03:08:23 PM

The GOP spent 8 years whining about deficits and now all they want is tax cuts for billionaires.

This is nothing new. Republicans are deficit hawks and all about small spending when in opposition, but as soon as they get elected they revert to the "deficits don't matter" doctrine and spend like drunken sailors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 25, 2017, 03:46:17 PM
Is it just me or is the faux outrage over the DNC and Clinton campaign's oppo research massively over the top?

Surely it's common knowledge now that research is done on every candidate who stands for a position from the PArty Nomination to the school board why is this such a "Shocking" revelation??

I'm pretty sure Hannity's has come in his pants at hearing the news... "Tick tick BOOM"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2017, 04:02:16 PM
The only thing holding the GOP together is tax cuts that will go in the main to rich parasites , thus alienating blue collar voters.  I think both the GOP and the Tories will struggle to survive the next crash
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on October 25, 2017, 05:41:07 PM
What is the state of the economy in the US at the moment? 

I heard President Trump saying stocks an shares were high again, unemployment is down and illegal immigration is down. 

From people living in the states, what's it like?  Is he delivering?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2017, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 25, 2017, 05:41:07 PM
What is the state of the economy in the US at the moment? 

I heard President Trump saying stocks an shares were high again, unemployment is down and illegal immigration is down. 

From people living in the states, what's it like?  Is he delivering?

Since he hasn't been able to get any substantial legislation through it's hard to give him credit for "delivering" anything.

Net migration to the US was negative before he took office, so if he ever does manage to build his stupid wall then all it'll do is keep people in rather than out.

But to answer your question the economy has been chugging along nicely since Obama took over and fixed the mess that W had created. Unemployment is back at or below pre-crisis levels.

(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2007_2017_all_period_M09_data.gif)

The housing market looks a bit bubbly in some cities though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 25, 2017, 06:59:31 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 25, 2017, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 21, 2017, 06:36:28 PM

Mr. Statistician and forum cop himself. As Mark Twain would say "There are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Says a lot about your credibility. As for the policing attempt, that has given us a deeper look into your character.  Sure you felt you had the backing of the herd, the great unwashed. That too did not go to you liking, the Fox is still around.
Missed this and maybe it wasn't for me, but as it was a reply to my post, just for the record, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Apologies, that was meant for Eamonnca1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2017, 07:34:30 PM
Respect the Forum Police.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 26, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
But you said you'd vote for Bernie??

Bernie is not a leader in the democrat party is he???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on October 26, 2017, 05:30:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z00T8sYqG8k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z00T8sYqG8k)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 26, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: stew on October 26, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
But you said you'd vote for Bernie??

Bernie is not a leader in the democrat party is he???

Of course he is!!

Anyway it's all OK lads the drug and alcohol problem is sorted... just tell people not to do it!!!

Problem solved A+
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 27, 2017, 05:46:10 AM
"Just Say No" worked so well in the 1980s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 27, 2017, 09:15:39 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 26, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: stew on October 26, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
But you said you'd vote for Bernie??

Bernie is not a leader in the democrat party is he???

Of course he is!!

Anyway it's all OK lads the drug and alcohol problem is sorted... just tell people not to do it!!!

Problem solved A+

Bernie is no democrat, Trump was and Killory is thank God, maybe, in Hillarys case she can start explaining why she covered up the paedophile ring among her political friends, that would be nice and might put a few c***ts behind bars, Hillers included.

As for the drug situation in the states, the CIA were at it so what did they expect???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 27, 2017, 09:23:03 AM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2017, 09:15:39 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 26, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: stew on October 26, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
But you said you'd vote for Bernie??

Bernie is not a leader in the democrat party is he???

Of course he is!!
(http:///%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EProblem%20solved%20A+%3Cbr%20/%3E%5B/quote%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EBernie%20is%20no%20democr)at, Trump was and Killory is thank God, maybe, in Hillarys case she can start explaining why she covered up the paedophile ring among her political friends, that would be nice and might put a few c***ts behind bars, Hillers included.

As for the drug situation in the states, the CIA were at it so what did they expect???
I've got it... I know who stew is now!!

(https://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/FBIAlexJones.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2017, 10:03:43 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 27, 2017, 09:23:03 AM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2017, 09:15:39 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 26, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: stew on October 26, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
But you said you'd vote for Bernie??

Bernie is not a leader in the democrat party is he???

Of course he is!!
(http:///%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EProblem%20solved%20A+%3Cbr%20/%3E%5B/quote%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EBernie%20is%20no%20democr)at, Trump was and Killory is thank God, maybe, in Hillarys case she can start explaining why she covered up the paedophile ring among her political friends, that would be nice and might put a few c***ts behind bars, Hillers included.

As for the drug situation in the states, the CIA were at it so what did they expect???
I've got it... I know who stew is now!!

(https://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/FBIAlexJones.jpg)

Nah, too thin and has too much hair to be sthtoo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2017, 10:48:03 AM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2017, 09:15:39 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 26, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: stew on October 26, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
But you said you'd vote for Bernie??

Bernie is not a leader in the democrat party is he???

Of course he is!!

Anyway it's all OK lads the drug and alcohol problem is sorted... just tell people not to do it!!!

Problem solved A+

Bernie is no democrat, Trump was and Killory is thank God, maybe, in Hillarys case she can start explaining why she covered up the paedophile ring among her political friends, that would be nice and might put a few c***ts behind bars, Hillers included.

As for the drug situation in the states, the CIA were at it so what did they expect???

Dear god... ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2017, 10:50:03 AM
Quote from: stew on October 26, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
But you said you'd vote for Bernie??

Bernie is not a leader in the democrat party is he???

You're always spitting about how much you despise liberals/progressives/leftists.

Bernie is the most liberal, leftist politician in the Senate.

And, had he won the nomination he WOULD have been leader of the party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 27, 2017, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: stew on October 27, 2017, 09:15:39 AM
Bernie is no democrat, Trump was and Killory is thank God, maybe, in Hillarys case she can start explaining why she covered up the paedophile ring among her political friends, that would be nice and might put a few c***ts behind bars, Hillers included.

As for the drug situation in the states, the CIA were at it so what did they expect???

Sweet suffering Jesus Christ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 27, 2017, 01:36:47 PM
Hopefully he comes up with proof for this one . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ePLkAm8i2s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2017, 03:05:35 PM
Flake and Corker have been flaking Trump all week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2017, 08:19:59 PM
Joe Biden might make a run in 2020 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/10/26/10-reasons-biden-may-run-in-2020/?utm_term=.46b8fb926f1a).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 28, 2017, 08:55:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2017, 08:19:59 PM
Joe Biden might make a run in 2020 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/10/26/10-reasons-biden-may-run-in-2020/?utm_term=.46b8fb926f1a).

Oh please!! He wipes the floor with any Republican I still can't believe he didn't run last time!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on October 28, 2017, 09:36:51 AM
Texas city refuses to give people hurricane aid unless they pledge not to boycott Israel

Private citizens who apply for Hurricane Harvey rebuilding funds in Dickinson, Texas no longer have to certify that they will not boycott Israel.

The Dickinson City Council on Tuesday voted to remove a clause from a relief application that had drawn the ire of the American Civil Liberties Union and pro-boycott activists, the Houston Chronicle reported.

The city, located near Houston, put the requirement in the application in order to comply with a new state law, signed in May, that requires all state contractors to certify that they are not participating in boycotts of Israel.

During the meeting on Tuesday, the council created two different applications for contracting with the city: one for businesses and one for private citizens. Businesses will still have to certify that they do not participate in the anti-Israel boycott.

Dickinson, a city of about 19,000, was hit especially hard by Harvey. More than three-quarters of its homes were damaged by the hurricane, and 830 were destroyed.

State Rep. Phil King, the author of the state legislation, said last week that the law, which went into effect on Sept. 1, "in no way applies to the type of situation that happened in Dickinson."

The ACLU complained that linking aid to an individual's support of the Israel boycott is a violation of free speech rights.

http://forward.com/fast-forward/386225/texas-town-pulls-bds-clause-from-hurricane-relief-application/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 29, 2017, 08:41:12 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on October 28, 2017, 09:36:51 AM
Texas city refuses to give people hurricane aid unless they pledge not to boycott Israel

Private citizens who apply for Hurricane Harvey rebuilding funds in Dickinson, Texas no longer have to certify that they will not boycott Israel.

The Dickinson City Council on Tuesday voted to remove a clause from a relief application that had drawn the ire of the American Civil Liberties Union and pro-boycott activists, the Houston Chronicle reported.

The city, located near Houston, put the requirement in the application in order to comply with a new state law, signed in May, that requires all state contractors to certify that they are not participating in boycotts of Israel.

During the meeting on Tuesday, the council created two different applications for contracting with the city: one for businesses and one for private citizens. Businesses will still have to certify that they do not participate in the anti-Israel boycott.

Dickinson, a city of about 19,000, was hit especially hard by Harvey. More than three-quarters of its homes were damaged by the hurricane, and 830 were destroyed.

State Rep. Phil King, the author of the state legislation, said last week that the law, which went into effect on Sept. 1, "in no way applies to the type of situation that happened in Dickinson."

The ACLU complained that linking aid to an individual's support of the Israel boycott is a violation of free speech rights.

http://forward.com/fast-forward/386225/texas-town-pulls-bds-clause-from-hurricane-relief-application/


Absolutely disgraceful!!!!

Bastards killing democracy at every turn!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 29, 2017, 07:07:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2017, 06:38:50 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 21, 2017, 07:47:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2017, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 21, 2017, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 20, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 20, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
No talk about this on the thread http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

This is old news for those that do not suck on the MSM teat.
I can barely see you up there master. Is that really you? I don't pretend to be as learned as you but is it really old news that the Senate Judiciary Committee intends to probe this?

At this point there is no evidence Clinton was involved in decision making (which took place across multiple agencies), which is why it would be a huge story.

But it should be investigated (fairly!), given the allegations about bribery and coercion, no matter how high up the chain the wrongdoing, if any, occurred. If it results in criminal charges, so be it. No one should be above the law.

But, to use the Trump administration's term, when it comes to the Clintons specifically, it will probably turn out to be yet another "nothing burger", as all these GOP Clinton hunts invariably do. The more conspiracy minded will take that as yet more evidence of the Clintons' evil ways, skills and reach. Trump will use it to his advantage no matter what (" never mind my f**k ups, look at crooked Hillary!") while he himself ignores emoluments issues.

So who should investigate this? Robert Mueller? Will they roll back in James Comey the great protector of Her Highness? They both are up to their eyeballs in this. No point in having the Republicans doing the investigation either, all but a few are compromised in other matters and will not upset "The Club".

A proper Independent Council is needed that will not abuse it's power, otherwise this will get litigated and the criminals will get off once again. All we'll get from the blind followers is that "it was litigated, no evidence was found, lets move on".

Washington DC is the greatest enemy of the American people.

1. How is Comey the "great protector of her highness" when he arguably cost her election by putting the final nail in her coffin with the letter to congress about Weiner's laptop (which ultimately revealed nothing new) less than two weeks out?

2. I fully agree that such investigations should be led by an independent counsel, but how many on the GOP side are complaining about Mueller, one of their own! What would they say about someone with no connection to either party? Fact is that no matter WHO it is, once they start asking tough questions and issuing subpoenas, the side under investigation is going to start whining about it and trying to discredit the inquiry.

Mueller was Director of the FBI when all this started, therefore it would be a conflict of interest. He knew all about the deal and the treason involved and was a part of the coverup. He should be on the large list of those being investigated not the one doing the investigation.

Comey was a minor assistant US attorney in the late 90's.  He only gained power and money by being the DOJ official who "investigated" and cleared Bill Clinton of any wrong-doing in Clinton's totally corrupt pardon (for huge payoffs) of criminal financier Marc Rich as Clinton was leaving the Presidency.  This is how Comey began his career as a creature of the "swamp" years ago, as a servant of the Clintons.

Comey provided "cover" for the Clintons in their gaining incredible power and wealth after leaving office through pardoning a billionaire money-launderer, arms dealer and criminal.  Comey was a key piece in how the Clintons upped their corruption game and gained incredible wealth through their foundation after leaving the White House.  A huge part of the scheme was giving Marc Rich a free pass when he should have spent life in prison, and that is what Comey covered-up for the Clintons.  This set up Comey to be part of the corruption machine, making him powerful and wealthy.

Immediately after doing the Clinton's dirty work as a DOJ official, Comey resigned from the DOJ and took a position as the head attorney (Counsel) of the Lockheed Martin company, a huge military contractor.  While he was in that position Lockheed became a major contributor (millions) to the Clinton Foundation and its fake charity spin-offs.  In return for these payment to Clinton Inc., Lockheed received huge contracts with Hillary's state department.  Comey was the chief legal officer of Lockheed throughout this period of contributions to Clinton Inc. in return for State Dept. contracts.

In late 2012, after overseeing Lockheed's successful relationship with the Hillary State Department and the resulting profits, Comey stepped down from Lockheed and received a $6 million dollar payout for his services.

In 2013, the largest bank of England, HSBC Holdings, was deep into a scandal.  Investigations by federal authorities and law-enforcement had revealed that for years HSBC had been laundering billions of dollars for Mexican Drug Cartels, channeling money for Saudi banks who were financing terror, moving money for Iran in violation of the sanctions, and other major criminal activity.  HSBC's criminality was pervasive and deliberate by the Bank and its officials.  HSBC was a huge Clinton Foundation contributor (many millions) throughout the "investigation" and Bill Clinton was being paid large personal fees for speaking at HSBC events (while Hillary was Sec of State).   Eric Holder and the Obama Justice Department did what they were paid to do, and let HSBC off of the hook for a paltry 1.2 Billion dollar fine (paid by its stockholders), and not one Director, officer or management member at HSBC was fired or charged with any criminal.  Exactly when everyone involved with HSBC Bank (including the Clintons and all of their "donors") were being let off without penalty, and cover had to be provided to HSBC, Comey was appointed as a Director and Member of the Board of HSBC (in the middle of the fallout from the scandal).  He was part of the effort to cover up the scandal and make HSBC "respectable" again.

After about a year as HSBC director, despite his lack of any law enforcement experience, no DOJ leadership experience, and no qualifications for the job, Comey was appointed FBI director by Obama.  The only qualification Comey had was that the Clinton's and their cronies knew Comey was in bed with them, was compromised and was willing to do their dirty work.  Comey was appointed to the FBI right when Hillary was leaving the State Department, and was vulnerable to the FBI because she had been using a private-server, mis-handling classified information, selling access to favors/contracts from the State Department to Clinton Foundation Donors (including Comey's Lockheed Martin), and much more. Remember that this was about the time the Inspector General of the State Department found over 2 billion "missing" from the State Department finances during Hillary's tenure.

The obvious conclusion is that Comey was appointed to the FBI (along with other reliable Clinton-Obama cronies)  to run interference for the Clinton's and Obama's at the nation's federal law enforcement agency(in conjunction with a corrupt Department of Justice).  Comey was and is owned by the Clintons.  He owed all of his power and wealth to being part of their machine and providing them with cover.

In late 2015 and early 2016, information began to come out about the Clinton Foundation and its use by the Clinton's as a multi-billion dollar slush fund for corruption and political favors. (even Chelsea's wedding had been paid for by the "charity) This was right as Hillary was beginning her campaign for President. It was revealed that the Foundation had never completed required reports or had an audit.  Supposedly the FBI, under Comey, began an "investigation" of the Clinton Funds.  A "professional" accounting firm was brought in by the Clintons to do a review, file some reports, make recommendations to the Clinton Foundation Board, and provide a veneer of legitimacy to the Clinton Fund operations.  Predictably, one of the partners in the firm that was chosen (and paid lots of money) is the brother of James Comey (FBI Director).  This brother owes James Comey $700,000 for a loan James gave him to buy a house, and presumably some of the money from the Clinton Fund was used to make payments to James on the loan.  Over 2 years later and nothing has happened as a result of the FBI "investigating" the Clinton Funds under Comey.

No one in congress or federal law enforcement was intending to actually pursue the Clintons, but Judicial Watch and other independent sources obtained information proving that Hillary had been running her own server, sending out classified information, etc.  This information began to come out right in the middle of her campaign to be coronated as President.  A "show" investigation had to be performed to appear to look into it and clear her.  Who to use?...the reliable shill James Comey.

As head of the FBI, Comey (and his lackeys in key positions) deliberately screwed up the investigation into Hillary's use of a private server and her plain violation of national security law on classified information.  The investigation was deliberately mis-handled in every aspect. Comey gave immunity to all of Hillary's lackeys, did not use subpoenas or warrants, lost evidence, allowed the destruction of evidence, failed to do any searches or seizures of evidence, did not use a grand-jury, did not swear witnesses, did not record testimony, allowed attorneys to represent multiple suspects (corrupting the testimony).  Everything that could be done to ruin the FBI investigation and to cover for Hillary was done.  A "slam-dunk" case became a mess. Immunity was given every witness even though they provided no help.  Maybe more importantly, by focusing the FBI on the email scandal, attention was drawn away from the much bigger scandal of the Clinton Foundation that could bring down a huge number of corrupt politicians, lobbyists, and even governments.

Originally, Comey's job was simply to totally botch the Hillary investigation and ruin the case against her and her minions within the FBI regarding the emails. At the same time Comey also started work on a parallel assignment to illegally "wiretap" and surveil Donald Trump and every other person involved in the Republican campaign.  He was tasked with digging up any dirt or fact that could be used to hurt the Trump campaign later.  This included using a fake "dossier" paid for by the Clinton campaign to obtain authorization for the surveillance and to try to associate Trump's campaign with the Russians. Under Comey's direction the Trump/republican campaign was monitored and surveilled and all information was provided to the Obama Whitehouse and the Clinton camp all during the campaign.

Lorretta Lynch was supposed to complete the coverup for Hillary as Attorney General by issuing a finding that the deliberately botched FBI "investigation" did not justify prosecution of Hillary.  But someone screwed up and Bill Clinton was video'd meeting with Loretta Lynch in Arizona shortly before she was supposed to make her decision on Hillary (interference with a federal investigation), and Lynch could no longer credibly squash the Hillary scandal.  The solution, give the job to James.  The Clinton's owned him and he would have to do whatever is necessary to provide cover.

Comey goes on national TV and violates every rule of the FBI, the Justice Department and American law enforcement by revealing some of the FBI's "evidence" of what Hillary did (enough to make it look like the FBI and Comey did some investigation), then declaring that there was no "intent" and clearing Hillary.  He did what he was ordered to do.  The Justice Department and Obama backed Comey's coverup and it looked like Hillary had survived the scandal.

Then, right before the election, the NYPD obtained pervert Anthony Wiener's laptop and found classified emails from Hillary on the laptop.  The NYPD began leaking details to new-media outlets, and the story was about to explode.  Comey once again stepped in to cover Hillary.  He short-circuited the NYPD leaks by publicly acknowledging the laptop and the emails, but then claimed just days later that hundreds of thousands of emails had all been reviewed and "nothing new" was on the laptop.  Once again, he had done his job.  Providing cover and FBI "protection" for Hillary on the newest scandal when it broke.

If Hillary had won, Comey would have kept right on providing cover for the corruption of the Clinton machine.  He would have kept the FBI paralyzed, prevented the Clinton Fund from being investigated, and continued to do his job as the Clinton's personal scandal eraser at the FBI.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2017, 09:01:11 PM
L-O-f**king-L   :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

You lads love reading stuff on conspiracy websites

http://themillenniumreport.com/2017/05/the-inside-story-on-james-b-comey/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 29, 2017, 09:40:07 PM
Either way it's going to get very interesting

Clinton camp could be in serious trouble over the Russian dossier

If I were to guess I'd say Manafort or Flynn or Flynns son is going to get indicted tomorrow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 29, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
Seamus,
That was a very interesting take on events. Thanks for the spin, batshit, but interesting. 

Whitey,
Again one of those times when I agree with you, it will be nothing if not interesting, and despite all the pontificating, not a single commentator has a clue what way this is going to play out.

I feel that this is not going to be as partisan as many believe, and that the take down will be cross party. Which to be honest is what America needs, which is to stop placing blind Faith in politicians along party lines.

Here's hoping....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2017, 10:18:55 PM
It would be great if they could put Rebekah Mercer away.

The Dems are corrupt but the GOP is putrid at this stage.

This was on the FT site

Republican administrations had been much more criminally corrupt over the last 50 plus years than the Democrats. When comparing criminal indictments of those serving in the executive branch of presidential administrations, it's so lopsided as to be ridiculous. Yet all I ever hear about is how supposedly 'corrupt' the Democrats are. So why don't we break it down by president and the numbers? Obama (D) – 8 yrs in office. Zero criminal indictments, zero convictions and zero prison sentences. So the next time somebody describes the Obama administration as 'scandal free' they aren't speaking wishfully, they're simply telling the truth. Bush, George W. (R) – 8 yrs in office. 16 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 9 prison sentences. Clinton (D) – 8 yrs in office. 2 criminal indictments. One conviction. One prison sentence. That's right nearly 8 yrs of investigations. Tens of millions spent and 30 yrs of claiming them the most corrupt ever and there was exactly one person convicted of a crime. Bush, George H. W. (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. One conviction. One prison sentence. Reagan (R) – 8 yrs in office. 26 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 8 prison sentences. Carter (D) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. Zero convictions and zero prison sentences. Ford (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment and one conviction. One prison sentence. Nixon (R) – 6 yrs in office. 76 criminal indictments. 55 convictions. 15 prison sentences. Johnson (D) – 5 yrs in office. Zero indictments. Zero convictions. Zero prison sentences. So, let's see where that leaves us. In the last 53 years, Democrats have been in the Oval Office for 25 of those years, while Republicans held it for 28. In their 25 yrs in office Democrats had a total of three executive branch officials indicted with one conviction and one prison sentence. That's one whole executive branch official convicted of a crime in two and a half decades of Democrat leadership. In the 28 yrs that Republicans have held office over the last 53 yrs they have had a total of (a drum roll would be more than appropriate), 120 criminal indictments of executive branch officials. 89 criminal convictions and 34 prison sentences handed down. That's more prison sentences than years in office since 1968 for Republicans. If you want to count articles of impeachment as indictments (they aren't really but we can count them as an action), both sides get one more. However, Clinton wasn't found guilty while Nixon resigned and was pardoned by Ford (and a pardon carries with it a legal admission of guilt on the part of the pardoned). So those only serve to make Republicans look even worse. With everything going on with Trump and his people right now, it's a safe bet Republicans are gonna be padding their numbers a bit real soon. So let's just go over the numbers one more time, shall we? 120 indictments for Republicans. 89 convictions, and 34 prison sentences. Those aren't 'feelings' or 'alternate facts' or 'fake news'. Those are simply the stats by the numbers. Republicans are, and have been for my entire lifetime, the most criminally corrupt party to hold the office of the presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 29, 2017, 11:56:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 29, 2017, 10:18:55 PM
It would be great if they could put Rebekah Mercer away.

The Dems are corrupt but the GOP is putrid at this stage.

This was on the FT site

Republican administrations had been much more criminally corrupt over the last 50 plus years than the Democrats. When comparing criminal indictments of those serving in the executive branch of presidential administrations, it's so lopsided as to be ridiculous. Yet all I ever hear about is how supposedly 'corrupt' the Democrats are. So why don't we break it down by president and the numbers? Obama (D) – 8 yrs in office. Zero criminal indictments, zero convictions and zero prison sentences. So the next time somebody describes the Obama administration as 'scandal free' they aren't speaking wishfully, they're simply telling the truth. Bush, George W. (R) – 8 yrs in office. 16 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 9 prison sentences. Clinton (D) – 8 yrs in office. 2 criminal indictments. One conviction. One prison sentence. That's right nearly 8 yrs of investigations. Tens of millions spent and 30 yrs of claiming them the most corrupt ever and there was exactly one person convicted of a crime. Bush, George H. W. (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. One conviction. One prison sentence. Reagan (R) – 8 yrs in office. 26 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 8 prison sentences. Carter (D) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. Zero convictions and zero prison sentences. Ford (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment and one conviction. One prison sentence. Nixon (R) – 6 yrs in office. 76 criminal indictments. 55 convictions. 15 prison sentences. Johnson (D) – 5 yrs in office. Zero indictments. Zero convictions. Zero prison sentences. So, let's see where that leaves us. In the last 53 years, Democrats have been in the Oval Office for 25 of those years, while Republicans held it for 28. In their 25 yrs in office Democrats had a total of three executive branch officials indicted with one conviction and one prison sentence. That's one whole executive branch official convicted of a crime in two and a half decades of Democrat leadership. In the 28 yrs that Republicans have held office over the last 53 yrs they have had a total of (a drum roll would be more than appropriate), 120 criminal indictments of executive branch officials. 89 criminal convictions and 34 prison sentences handed down. That's more prison sentences than years in office since 1968 for Republicans. If you want to count articles of impeachment as indictments (they aren't really but we can count them as an action), both sides get one more. However, Clinton wasn't found guilty while Nixon resigned and was pardoned by Ford (and a pardon carries with it a legal admission of guilt on the part of the pardoned). So those only serve to make Republicans look even worse. With everything going on with Trump and his people right now, it's a safe bet Republicans are gonna be padding their numbers a bit real soon. So let's just go over the numbers one more time, shall we? 120 indictments for Republicans. 89 convictions, and 34 prison sentences. Those aren't 'feelings' or 'alternate facts' or 'fake news'. Those are simply the stats by the numbers. Republicans are, and have been for my entire lifetime, the most criminally corrupt party to hold the office of the presidency.

Do you have a link to the article?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 30, 2017, 01:45:17 AM
if that was on the ft it was a comment...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on October 30, 2017, 04:31:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aai6K_xATq8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 30, 2017, 07:45:52 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 29, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
Seamus,
That was a very interesting take on events. Thanks for the spin, batshit, but interesting. 

Whitey,
Again one of those times when I agree with you, it will be nothing if not interesting, and despite all the pontificating, not a single commentator has a clue what way this is going to play out.

I feel that this is not going to be as partisan as many believe, and that the take down will be cross party. Which to be honest is what America needs, which is to stop placing blind Faith in politicians along party lines.

Here's hoping....

Well said hegan, there are more than enough rats on both sides of the aisle that need jailed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on October 30, 2017, 09:11:17 AM
Here, what's all this providing links and citations carry on about......fire the stuff up and pretend it's your own deep political insights....like Seamus...  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2017, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 30, 2017, 01:45:17 AM
if that was on the ft it was a comment...
The comments are often better than the articles

https://www.ft.com/content/a9f36410-bba8-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464#comments
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2017, 09:53:43 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/29/donald-trump-robert-mueller-russia-chris-christie

Donald Trump sent an extraordinary fusillade of angry tweets about the investigation into possible ties between his election campaign and Russia, amid reports that the special counsel leading the inquiry could make its first arrests as soon as Monday.

Trump, in a series of tweets on Sunday referencing what he called "phony Trump/Russia 'collusion' which doesn't exist", accused Democrats of a "witch hunt" and "evil politics", before adding that Republicans were "fighting back like never before".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 30, 2017, 10:30:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 30, 2017, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 30, 2017, 01:45:17 AM
if that was on the ft it was a comment...
The comments are often better than the articles

https://www.ft.com/content/a9f36410-bba8-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464#comments

Ahh....so in other words it isnt vetted or verified for accuracy or balance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 12:00:55 PM
No surprise that it's Manafort

QuoteWASHINGTON — Paul Manafort and his former business associate Rick Gates were told to surrender to federal authorities Monday morning, the first charges in a special counsel investigation, according to a person involved in the case.

The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chairman, and Mr. Gates, a business associate of Mr. Manafort, were not immediately clear but represent a significant escalation in a special counsel investigation that has cast a shadow over the president's first year in office.

Mr. Gates is a longtime protégé and junior partner of Mr. Manafort. His name appears on documents linked to companies that Mr. Manafort's firm set up in Cyprus to receive payments from politicians and businesspeople in Eastern Europe, records reviewed by The New York Times show.

Mr. Manafort had been under investigation for violations of federal tax law, money laundering and whether he appropriately disclosed his foreign lobbying.

Attempts to reach Mr. Gates on Monday were not successful. A spokesman for Mr. Manafort did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2017, 12:51:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 12:00:55 PM
No surprise that it's Manafort

QuoteWASHINGTON — Paul Manafort and his former business associate Rick Gates were told to surrender to federal authorities Monday morning, the first charges in a special counsel investigation, according to a person involved in the case.

The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chairman, and Mr. Gates, a business associate of Mr. Manafort, were not immediately clear but represent a significant escalation in a special counsel investigation that has cast a shadow over the president's first year in office.

Mr. Gates is a longtime protégé and junior partner of Mr. Manafort. His name appears on documents linked to companies that Mr. Manafort's firm set up in Cyprus to receive payments from politicians and businesspeople in Eastern Europe, records reviewed by The New York Times show.

Mr. Manafort had been under investigation for violations of federal tax law, money laundering and whether he appropriately disclosed his foreign lobbying.

Attempts to reach Mr. Gates on Monday were not successful. A spokesman for Mr. Manafort did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

This is only the start of it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 30, 2017, 01:03:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 30, 2017, 12:51:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 12:00:55 PM
No surprise that it's Manafort

QuoteWASHINGTON — Paul Manafort and his former business associate Rick Gates were told to surrender to federal authorities Monday morning, the first charges in a special counsel investigation, according to a person involved in the case.

The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chairman, and Mr. Gates, a business associate of Mr. Manafort, were not immediately clear but represent a significant escalation in a special counsel investigation that has cast a shadow over the president's first year in office.

Mr. Gates is a longtime protégé and junior partner of Mr. Manafort. His name appears on documents linked to companies that Mr. Manafort's firm set up in Cyprus to receive payments from politicians and businesspeople in Eastern Europe, records reviewed by The New York Times show.

Mr. Manafort had been under investigation for violations of federal tax law, money laundering and whether he appropriately disclosed his foreign lobbying.

Attempts to reach Mr. Gates on Monday were not successful. A spokesman for Mr. Manafort did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

This is only the start of it

Hopefully he goes down in flames. Someone with his type of baggage shouldn't have been let within an asses roar of a Republican campaign.  This may only be the start......interesting that the charges have absolutely nothing to do with the election...Mueller might just be putting the squeeze on Manafort to spill the beans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 30, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 29, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
Seamus,
That was a very interesting take on events. Thanks for the spin, batshit, but interesting. 

Whitey,
Again one of those times when I agree with you, it will be nothing if not interesting, and despite all the pontificating, not a single commentator has a clue what way this is going to play out.

I feel that this is not going to be as partisan as many believe, and that the take down will be cross party. Which to be honest is what America needs, which is to stop placing blind Faith in politicians along party lines.

Here's hoping....

I don't think it's as positive as putting blind faith in politicians along party lines, as it is people first and foremost being scared shitless by all the demonization and negativity about the other side.

Seamus and stew and their Alex Jones/Fox News conspiracy paranoia might be the extreme manifestation, but ultimately most people are involved and voting on a defensive basis, based on fear of the other side more than any great belief in the capabilities and good faith of their own representatives.

(Although Trump is, alarmingly, a departure even from the usual nasty norm in that he is also embracing the Alex Jones/Fox News bullshit)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 30, 2017, 01:30:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 30, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 29, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
Seamus,
That was a very interesting take on events. Thanks for the spin, batshit, but interesting. 

Whitey,
Again one of those times when I agree with you, it will be nothing if not interesting, and despite all the pontificating, not a single commentator has a clue what way this is going to play out.

I feel that this is not going to be as partisan as many believe, and that the take down will be cross party. Which to be honest is what America needs, which is to stop placing blind Faith in politicians along party lines.

Here's hoping....

I don't think it's as positive as putting blind faith in politicians along party lines, as it is people first and foremost being scared shitless by all the demonization and negativity about the other side.

Seamus and stew and their Alex Jones/Fox News conspiracy paranoia might be the extreme manifestation, but ultimately most people are involved and voting on a defensive basis, based on fear of the other side more than any great belief in the capabilities and good faith of their own representatives.

(Although Trump is, alarmingly, a departure even from the usual nasty norm in that he is also embracing the Alex Jones/Fox News bullshit)

Don't lump me in with Fox news you facker!

I liken my affiliation with the republican party like I do my affiliation with Manchester United FC in that I would prefer to see Liverpool lose the title than United win it, similarly I prefer Republicans to be in office because I f**king hate the liberal elite in the democrat party with every fibre of my being.

I watch Fox News on occasion, if only to get the stench of CNN of of me after watching their version of the news, same applies to NBC, CNN and of course, msnbc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 01:38:02 PM
"Conspiracy against the United States"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNY3EorUQAIjYBy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 30, 2017, 01:44:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 01:38:02 PM
"Conspiracy against the United States"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNY3EorUQAIjYBy.jpg)

Great news, drain the swamp begins in earnest, I hope every filthy politican who is bought and paid for gets his/her ass nailed to the floor no matter what party they belong to!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on October 30, 2017, 02:39:12 PM
CNN go bananas!! Warning liberals - this might be funny.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5628715963001/?#sp=show-clips
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 02:43:17 PM
DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 30, 2017, 02:46:11 PM
Quote from: stew on October 30, 2017, 01:30:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 30, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 29, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
Seamus,
That was a very interesting take on events. Thanks for the spin, batshit, but interesting. 

Whitey,
Again one of those times when I agree with you, it will be nothing if not interesting, and despite all the pontificating, not a single commentator has a clue what way this is going to play out.

I feel that this is not going to be as partisan as many believe, and that the take down will be cross party. Which to be honest is what America needs, which is to stop placing blind Faith in politicians along party lines.

Here's hoping....

I don't think it's as positive as putting blind faith in politicians along party lines, as it is people first and foremost being scared shitless by all the demonization and negativity about the other side.

Seamus and stew and their Alex Jones/Fox News conspiracy paranoia might be the extreme manifestation, but ultimately most people are involved and voting on a defensive basis, based on fear of the other side more than any great belief in the capabilities and good faith of their own representatives.

(Although Trump is, alarmingly, a departure even from the usual nasty norm in that he is also embracing the Alex Jones/Fox News bullshit)

Don't lump me in with Fox news you facker!

I liken my affiliation with the republican party like I do my affiliation with Manchester United FC in that I would prefer to see Liverpool lose the title than United win it, similarly I prefer Republicans to be in office because I f**king hate the liberal elite in the democrat party with every fibre of my being.

I watch Fox News on occasion, if only to get the stench of CNN of of me after watching their version of the news, same applies to NBC, CNN and of course, msnbc.

You didn't disavow Alex Jones! ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 30, 2017, 03:38:19 PM
This is great....I hope he brings it down on top of them all

He is tasked with investigating Russian tampering in the election.....some Democrats I know seem to think he's only tasked with investigating Trump.

Mueller is his own man and was originally appointed by Bush.....if I was one of Hillarys minions I wouldn't be gloating too much this morning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 30, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 29, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
Seamus,
That was a very interesting take on events. Thanks for the spin, batshit, but interesting. 

Whitey,
Again one of those times when I agree with you, it will be nothing if not interesting, and despite all the pontificating, not a single commentator has a clue what way this is going to play out.

I feel that this is not going to be as partisan as many believe, and that the take down will be cross party. Which to be honest is what America needs, which is to stop placing blind Faith in politicians along party lines.

Here's hoping....

I don't think it's as positive as putting blind faith in politicians along party lines, as it is people first and foremost being scared shitless by all the demonization and negativity about the other side.

Seamus and stew and their Alex Jones/Fox News conspiracy paranoia might be the extreme manifestation, but ultimately most people are involved and voting on a defensive basis, based on fear of the other side more than any great belief in the capabilities and good faith of their own representatives.

(Although Trump is, alarmingly, a departure even from the usual nasty norm in that he is also embracing the Alex Jones/Fox News bullshit)

I do not have any time for Alex Jones ever though he tells far more of the truth than MSM. Most of us in the patriot movement knows that he is a double agent, he started out on the right side but sold his soul somewhere along the way.  I never watch FOX save for a few times I have listened to Bill O'Reilly whom I despise. He too started of as a good investigative journalist, going after the Kennedy Investigation with vigor but the big bucks were flashed in front of his eyes and he too sold his soul to the devil.  FOX, CNN etc are where you go to get you fill of conspiracies, propaganda and lies. I happen to be a recovering liberal, I came to the US supporting the Democrats but quickly found out both parties are one, are massively corrupt and have no interest in the well being of American people.

I really get a laugh from those people falling for the government and their mainstream lackey lies labeling those that oppose them as conspiracy theorists and paranoid. The CIA brought out this "Conspiracy Theorist" label and the dumbed down ran with it. It's a very uneducated statement and comes from the most disillusioned, uninformed people I know. Without they realizing it they are the ones peddling the conspiracies and lies. As I've already mentioned here, it's a mild brain disorder called cognitive dissonance but has massive consequences. The criminals can carry out their evil deeds without impunity right before our eyes knowing that only a few will question. Those doing the questioning are then ridiculed by the unquestioning and the crimes continue. The likes of the Bush and Clinton crime families, Kissinger, Soros to name but a few must be having some belly laugh at the expense of the gullible populace.   
     
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 30, 2017, 04:27:47 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 30, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 29, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
Seamus,
That was a very interesting take on events. Thanks for the spin, batshit, but interesting. 

Whitey,
Again one of those times when I agree with you, it will be nothing if not interesting, and despite all the pontificating, not a single commentator has a clue what way this is going to play out.

I feel that this is not going to be as partisan as many believe, and that the take down will be cross party. Which to be honest is what America needs, which is to stop placing blind Faith in politicians along party lines.

Here's hoping....

I don't think it's as positive as putting blind faith in politicians along party lines, as it is people first and foremost being scared shitless by all the demonization and negativity about the other side.

Seamus and stew and their Alex Jones/Fox News conspiracy paranoia might be the extreme manifestation, but ultimately most people are involved and voting on a defensive basis, based on fear of the other side more than any great belief in the capabilities and good faith of their own representatives.

(Although Trump is, alarmingly, a departure even from the usual nasty norm in that he is also embracing the Alex Jones/Fox News bullshit)

I do not have any time for Alex Jones ever though the tells far more of the truth than MSM. Most of us in the patriot movement knows that he is a double agent, he started out on the right side but sold his soul somewhere along the way.  I never watch FOX save for a few times I have listened to Bill O'Reilly whom I despise. He too started of as a good investigative journalist, going after the Kennedy Investigation with vigor but the big bucks were flashed in front of his eyes and he too sold his soul to the devil.  FOX, CNN etc are where you go to get you fill of conspiracies, propaganda and lies. I happen to be a recovering liberal, I came to the US supporting the Democrats but quickly found out both parties are one, are massively corrupt and have no interest in the well being of American people.

I really get a laugh from those people falling for the government and their mainstream lackey lies labeling those that oppose them as conspiracy theorists and paranoid. The CIA brought out this "Conspiracy Theorist" label and the dumbed down ran with it. It's a very uneducated statement and comes from the most disillusioned, uninformed people I know. Without they realizing it they are the ones peddling the conspiracies and lies. As I've already mentioned here, it's a mild brain disorder called cognitive dissonance but has massive consequences. The criminals can carry out their evil deeds without impunity right before our eyes knowing that only a few will question. Those doing the questioning are then ridiculed by the unquestioning and the crimes continue. The likes of the Bush and Clinton crime families, Kissinger, Soros to name but a few must be having some belly laugh at the expense of the gullible populace.   
   
Go on tell us a bit about your 'movement'?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 04:33:55 PM
QuoteMost of us in the patriot movement

Were you in Shelbyville TN this past weekend?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 30, 2017, 04:27:47 PM

Go on tell us a bit about your 'movement'?

Is this the best you can come up with? Go back to sleep
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 04:33:55 PM
QuoteMost of us in the patriot movement

Were you in Shelbyville TN this past weekend?

I'm for all lives matter, you just don't get it do you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 30, 2017, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 04:33:55 PM
QuoteMost of us in the patriot movement

Were you in Shelbyville TN this past weekend?

I'm for all lives matter, you just don't get it do you?

All lives matter is hate speech! If you are not BLM you are a racist, just ask the fuckwits on Boston Common, they will tell ya!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 30, 2017, 04:57:14 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 30, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 29, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
Seamus,
That was a very interesting take on events. Thanks for the spin, batshit, but interesting. 

Whitey,
Again one of those times when I agree with you, it will be nothing if not interesting, and despite all the pontificating, not a single commentator has a clue what way this is going to play out.

I feel that this is not going to be as partisan as many believe, and that the take down will be cross party. Which to be honest is what America needs, which is to stop placing blind Faith in politicians along party lines.

Here's hoping....

I don't think it's as positive as putting blind faith in politicians along party lines, as it is people first and foremost being scared shitless by all the demonization and negativity about the other side.

Seamus and stew and their Alex Jones/Fox News conspiracy paranoia might be the extreme manifestation, but ultimately most people are involved and voting on a defensive basis, based on fear of the other side more than any great belief in the capabilities and good faith of their own representatives.

(Although Trump is, alarmingly, a departure even from the usual nasty norm in that he is also embracing the Alex Jones/Fox News bullshit)

I do not have any time for Alex Jones ever though he tells far more of the truth than MSM. Most of us in the patriot movement knows that he is a double agent, he started out on the right side but sold his soul somewhere along the way.  I never watch FOX save for a few times I have listened to Bill O'Reilly whom I despise. He too started of as a good investigative journalist, going after the Kennedy Investigation with vigor but the big bucks were flashed in front of his eyes and he too sold his soul to the devil.  FOX, CNN etc are where you go to get you fill of conspiracies, propaganda and lies. I happen to be a recovering liberal, I came to the US supporting the Democrats but quickly found out both parties are one, are massively corrupt and have no interest in the well being of American people.

I really get a laugh from those people falling for the government and their mainstream lackey lies labeling those that oppose them as conspiracy theorists and paranoid. The CIA brought out this "Conspiracy Theorist" label and the dumbed down ran with it. It's a very uneducated statement and comes from the most disillusioned, uninformed people I know. Without they realizing it they are the ones peddling the conspiracies and lies. As I've already mentioned here, it's a mild brain disorder called cognitive dissonance but has massive consequences. The criminals can carry out their evil deeds without impunity right before our eyes knowing that only a few will question. Those doing the questioning are then ridiculed by the unquestioning and the crimes continue. The likes of the Bush and Clinton crime families, Kissinger, Soros to name but a few must be having some belly laugh at the expense of the gullible populace.   
   

I'm all for questioning, Seamus.

I'm less for putting 2 and 2 and coming up with 13.

Whether or not you have time specifically for Alex Jones and Fox News and the like, you traffic in the same type of poorly supported, tenuously connected, wild conjecture and then congratulate yourself on your "insight". FFS even Alex Jones is now apparently a double agent!

"Patriot movement"?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 30, 2017, 05:00:49 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 04:33:55 PM
QuoteMost of us in the patriot movement

Were you in Shelbyville TN this past weekend?

I'm for all lives matter, you just don't get it do you?

Get what?

That no one ever said white lives DON't matter, despite what those half-wits in Shelbyville and their ilk were chanting about?

That the point of the "black lives matter" was that black lives matter TOO, not that no one else's lives DIDN'T matter?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 30, 2017, 05:03:23 PM
All this talk about half of Santa Rosa being burned to the ground in the California wildfires. ALL cities matter!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 05:21:19 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 04:33:55 PM
QuoteMost of us in the patriot movement

Were you in Shelbyville TN this past weekend?

I'm for all lives matter, you just don't get it do you?

These guys sure care about all lives  ::)

https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/924296540096749573

QuoteBREAKING: White nationalists march in to Shelbyville chanting "Closed borders, white nation, now we start the deportation."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on October 30, 2017, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 05:21:19 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 04:33:55 PM
QuoteMost of us in the patriot movement

Were you in Shelbyville TN this past weekend?

I'm for all lives matter, you just don't get it do you?

These guys sure care about all lives  ::)

https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/924296540096749573

QuoteBREAKING: White nationalists march in to Shelbyville chanting "Closed borders, white nation, now we start the deportation."

Whats your point here Gabriel? White scum like this are the equal of he BLM white scum chanting about frying cops like bacon, one lfet wing, the other right wing! There is no difference kid no matter what way you try and spin it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 06:07:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 30, 2017, 04:57:14 PM


I'm all for questioning, Seamus.

I'm less for putting 2 and 2 and coming up with 13.

Whether or not you have time specifically for Alex Jones and Fox News and the like, you traffic in the same type of poorly supported, tenuously connected, wild conjecture and then congratulate yourself on your "insight". FFS even Alex Jones is now apparently a double agent!

"Patriot movement"?

You say you like to question everything but you always come back peddling what you are spoon fed. No originality whatsoever and everything must suit your liberal views. You have truly fallen for this divide and conquer agenda, you even support BLM not realizing its a George Soros funded organization to keep racism alive and well.  Antifa not surprisingly is also funded by Soros. That should also answer your amazing "Get what " question.

Then you are for Obamacare save for a few tweaks, have you read all the two or three thousand or more pages? I haven't but I know of one provision in it that is detrimental to the people. All those regulations are not all about health care. That scum John McCain knows all about this provision and is one the reasons for how he voted. You will have to read Obamacare in its entirety as I have no intention of informing you. You love finding answers don't you, just start reading. In any case government should stay the hell out of health care.

You should really reconsider what you get when you add 2+2

It does not surprise me that you are not fully aware of of Alex Jones. By double agent I mean he gives us a certain amount of the truth (more truth than MSM) along with intentionally give out disinformation. Any disinformation agent is the enemy of truth. Whether he is paid off to do this I don't know. He will never call Isreal out no mater what unless I missed it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 06:08:40 PM
Only one person here is claiming to be part of a "patriot movement" I posted an example of one.

Is it that hard to get through your head?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2017, 06:08:40 PM
Only one person here is claiming to be part of a "patriot movement" I posted an example of one.

Is it that hard to get through your head?

What ever makes you think I'm a white nationalist or something of its ilk? They are all part of the divide and conquer agenda. I'm for the complete opposite. The "movement" I mentioned is not an organization, it could be an individual peacefully attempting to inform the disillusioned like you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 30, 2017, 08:19:05 PM
Seamus,
You're not paranoid if they are all after you...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 09:39:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 30, 2017, 08:19:05 PM
Seamus,
You're not paranoid if they are all after you...

I do not know of anybody who is after me. If you are talking of corrupt governments and their pretend agencies their criminal activity is or should be plain for all to see. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 31, 2017, 06:08:44 AM
SHS delivery is outstanding...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ifwb3SNlw

she had me in stitches
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 31, 2017, 08:51:57 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 30, 2017, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 30, 2017, 04:27:47 PM

Go on tell us a bit about your 'movement'?

Is this the best you can come up with? Go back to sleep
Genuinely interested. What is the movement? How big or widespread is it? What does it stand for or stand against?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2017, 09:14:09 AM
It is interesting to see the patterns developing in the Trump presidency. One is U turns where a policy is upended by Trump talking shite and/ or his lack of attention to detail. 

1. Via FT
"While in Riyadh, Trump met regional leaders, including the emir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani. He said the US and Qatar had been "friends for a long time" and that the two leaders discussed the Qatari purchase of "lots of beautiful military equipment"

Just more than two weeks later, however, after Riyadh cut ties with Qatar, Trump tweeted support for the move, claiming that when it came to funding radical ideology, "leaders point to Qatar".
It's unlikely (to say the least) that Donald Trump realised we are running the entire air war out of Qatar prior to his tweet," said Andrew Exum, a deputy assistant secretary of defence for Middle East policy in the Obama administration."

2. The healthcare vote. Trump sent Ryan Zinke, his interior minister to threaten Lisa Murkowski with budget cuts for Alaska if she did  not vote for Trump care in the Senate. Murkowski is chair of a Senate committee than sets Zinke''s department's budget. She told him to go back and tell Trump.
Facepalm.

3 US néo nazis
Via FT
"The official transcript of last Tuesday's presentation in the gilded lobby of Trump Tower in New York is still entitled"Remarks by President Trump on Infrastructure".But history will remember it rather differently: as the day Trump took on reporters in a verbal brawl, drew a moral equivalence between white supremacists and anti-Nazis and shredded his own pretensions to being a serious politician.

"If he'd just kept his mouth shut, which he couldn't do," mused Rich Galen, former press secretary to ex-vice-president Dan Quayle. "Maybe that becomes the metaphor for any legislative agenda: nothing comes before Trump and airing a grievance.""

Trump does not have a coherent agenda. Conservatives need to wake up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.

In all the talk since I actually agree with what a lot of the """""Conservative""""" (using the term very loosely) commentators are saying.

I don't know a whole lot about the American immigration system but a lottery doesn't sound to me like the best system for letting people into your country. How merit based is the system and how many criteria do you have to fulfil before you can enter the lottery?

I think a merit based system has to be the way forward for every country especially with the threat now posed from terror.

It's a pity that they shut down this type of debate a few weeks ago after the Vegas massacre and said "we shouldn't be talking about policy when the bodies are still warm" and yet look what happens when there's a terror incident? Republicans haven't fucked up about the terror incident since it happened!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 01, 2017, 12:13:09 PM
I have mixed experiences with the immigration system. If you go the right route it still isn't straightforward to get in here. But once you're in it is relatively easy to stay.  Once you're a citizen it is relatively easy to bring over your extended family. And it isn't expensive when you look at the visa costs of other countries like Australia..

RE: the terror attack in NY - another mindless attack. RIP to all the poor souls that lost their lives and the injured. I say mindless because this boy didn't really know what he was at. 4 blocks of driving and he hit 20 people? armed with a paint gun and a pellet gun? in NY of all places where there are throngs of people crossing through every junction...you choose a bike path at a quieter time that has an early warning system of being a bike path and if you see a truck coming theres something wrong...?
very strange I dont think he was trained, or pushed or strategic, he watched some youtube videos, got radicalized on the internet and sought some virgins
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 01, 2017, 12:17:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.

In all the talk since I actually agree with what a lot of the """""Conservative""""" (using the term very loosely) commentators are saying.

I don't know a whole lot about the American immigration system but a lottery doesn't sound to me like the best system for letting people into your country. How merit based is the system and how many criteria do you have to fulfil before you can enter the lottery?

I think a merit based system has to be the way forward for every country especially with the threat now posed from terror.

It's a pity that they shut down this type of debate a few weeks ago after the Vegas massacre and said "we shouldn't be talking about policy when the bodies are still warm" and yet look what happens when there's a terror incident? Republicans haven't fucked up about the terror incident since it happened!!!

I wouldn't even regard this as "real" terror

A misguided impressionable individual who got led astray

FFS if he waited a few hours he could have killed hundreds at the Halloween parade which is held a couple of miles from his attack....usually has well over 1M attendees
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 01, 2017, 12:45:28 PM
Lads, I hope Home Land Security isn't monitoring site or ye may be receivind a sharp rap on the door.

RIP to all who perished.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 01, 2017, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.


But there is something that can be done - as President Trump has continually stated that a merit based system would help stop such future incidents.

Not surprisingly the usual liberal cheerleaders are very silent today alright. Probably because the guy entered the US on the Diversity visa lottery program. Way to go Senator Schumer. It shows that their dream of flooding the country with ready made democrat voters has some flaws.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 01, 2017, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.


But there is something that can be done - as President Trump has continually stated that a merit based system would help stop such future incidents.

Not surprisingly the usual liberal cheerleaders are very silent today alright. Probably because the guy entered the US on the Diversity visa lottery program. Way to go Senator Schumer. It shows that their dream of flooding the country with ready made democrat voters has some flaws.

Schumer voted to scrap the Lottery program in 2013?!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 01, 2017, 02:16:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 01, 2017, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.


But there is something that can be done - as President Trump has continually stated that a merit based system would help stop such future incidents.

Not surprisingly the usual liberal cheerleaders are very silent today alright. Probably because the guy entered the US on the Diversity visa lottery program. Way to go Senator Schumer. It shows that their dream of flooding the country with ready made democrat voters has some flaws.

Any chance of explaining how a merit based system would help stop such incidents?

(BTW President also continually stated that the crowds for his inauguration were bigger than Obama's - him saying it doesn't make it true, if that was the way you are going to go.

Also, Trump knew nothing about a merit-based system until it was mooted in a bill written by Tom Cotton earlier this year - a bill that didn't even command unanimous support from his own Republican colleagues in the Senate. So let's not credit Donald J. with knowledge and insight he does not possess. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 01, 2017, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 01, 2017, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.


But there is something that can be done - as President Trump has continually stated that a merit based system would help stop such future incidents.

Not surprisingly the usual liberal cheerleaders are very silent today alright. Probably because the guy entered the US on the Diversity visa lottery program. Way to go Senator Schumer. It shows that their dream of flooding the country with ready made democrat voters has some flaws.

Schumer voted to scrap the Lottery program in 2013?!!!!

Saipov arrived in the US in 2010.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 01, 2017, 02:21:28 PM
What a total moron.


US President Donald Trump has said it is not the time for a political debate on gun control, in the wake of the mass shooting in Las Vegas that killed 59 people and injured more than 500 others.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1003/909236-las-vegas/

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump  13h13 hours ago
More
I have just ordered Homeland Security to step up our already Extreme Vetting Program. Being politically correct is fine, but not for this!

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump  3h3 hours ago
More
The terrorist came into our country through what is called the "Diversity Visa Lottery Program," a Chuck Schumer beauty. I want merit based.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on November 01, 2017, 03:12:28 PM
Shows how much luck I have...literally applied for the lottery scheme yesterday. I always wonder what support do these attacks have in the native countries of the attacker? Is it roundly condemned? Or are they seen as maybe martyrs?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 01, 2017, 03:18:19 PM
Diversity Visas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1990#Diversity_Immigrant_Visas

Signed into law by George H.W. Bush
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 01, 2017, 03:26:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.

In all the talk since I actually agree with what a lot of the """""Conservative""""" (using the term very loosely) commentators are saying.

I don't know a whole lot about the American immigration system but a lottery doesn't sound to me like the best system for letting people into your country. How merit based is the system and how many criteria do you have to fulfil before you can enter the lottery?

I think a merit based system has to be the way forward for every country especially with the threat now posed from terror.

It's a pity that they shut down this type of debate a few weeks ago after the Vegas massacre and said "we shouldn't be talking about policy when the bodies are still warm" and yet look what happens when there's a terror incident? Republicans haven't fucked up about the terror incident since it happened!!!

Now is not the time to talk about fighting terrorism. We have to show respect for the dead by shutting down all attempts to discuss how we can prevent this sort of thing in future.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2017, 04:37:06 PM
Immigration is driven by neoliberalism.  It is the only way to keep growth going when debt is the system. Debt shunts money to the rich. Immigration also keeps wages down. This is a GOP problem. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2017, 04:40:40 PM

   https://www.ft.com/content/81b19fc0-be7e-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464

   The Internet Research Agency is a Kremlin-connected troll farm that the three companies have all found trying to manipulate US audiences on their platform. Facebook was the first to discover the group, saying it believes 126m people in the US saw a post from a fake page set up by the organisation.

The posts focused on political issues from race relations to gun rights and gay rights, and attempted to sow dissent, and even organise "real life" protests, rather than explicitly endorse specific candidates. Mr Stretch described the content as "so vile, so upsetting, so cynical".

In a tense two and a half-hour showdown, senators tried to understand how to legislate to ensure foreign actors are unable to influence US elections through online platforms, and questioned whether other countries could have been running such campaigns, from China to North Korea.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 01, 2017, 05:53:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 01, 2017, 03:26:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.

In all the talk since I actually agree with what a lot of the """""Conservative""""" (using the term very loosely) commentators are saying.

I don't know a whole lot about the American immigration system but a lottery doesn't sound to me like the best system for letting people into your country. How merit based is the system and how many criteria do you have to fulfil before you can enter the lottery?

I think a merit based system has to be the way forward for every country especially with the threat now posed from terror.

It's a pity that they shut down this type of debate a few weeks ago after the Vegas massacre and said "we shouldn't be talking about policy when the bodies are still warm" and yet look what happens when there's a terror incident? Republicans haven't fucked up about the terror incident since it happened!!!

Now is not the time to talk about fighting terrorism. We have to show respect for the dead by shutting down all attempts to discuss how we can prevent this sort of thing in future.

Of course democrats will like to avoid the thorny subjects. This is the left's version of Charlottesville but on a grander scale.

Respect for the dead would be to make sure events like this don't ever happen again. Ignoring the problem won't solve it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2017, 06:31:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 01, 2017, 12:17:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.

In all the talk since I actually agree with what a lot of the """""Conservative""""" (using the term very loosely) commentators are saying.

I don't know a whole lot about the American immigration system but a lottery doesn't sound to me like the best system for letting people into your country. How merit based is the system and how many criteria do you have to fulfil before you can enter the lottery?

I think a merit based system has to be the way forward for every country especially with the threat now posed from terror.

It's a pity that they shut down this type of debate a few weeks ago after the Vegas massacre and said "we shouldn't be talking about policy when the bodies are still warm" and yet look what happens when there's a terror incident? Republicans haven't fucked up about the terror incident since it happened!!!

I wouldn't even regard this as "real" terror

A misguided impressionable individual who got led astray

FFS if he waited a few hours he could have killed hundreds at the Halloween parade which is held a couple of miles from his attack....usually has well over 1M attendees

At least you can't buy a gun in the strip mall or Walmart around these parts.

Imagine how much worse it could have been if this yoyo had had an AR-15 or something?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2017, 06:39:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 01, 2017, 05:53:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 01, 2017, 03:26:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.

In all the talk since I actually agree with what a lot of the """""Conservative""""" (using the term very loosely) commentators are saying.

I don't know a whole lot about the American immigration system but a lottery doesn't sound to me like the best system for letting people into your country. How merit based is the system and how many criteria do you have to fulfil before you can enter the lottery?

I think a merit based system has to be the way forward for every country especially with the threat now posed from terror.

It's a pity that they shut down this type of debate a few weeks ago after the Vegas massacre and said "we shouldn't be talking about policy when the bodies are still warm" and yet look what happens when there's a terror incident? Republicans haven't fucked up about the terror incident since it happened!!!

Now is not the time to talk about fighting terrorism. We have to show respect for the dead by shutting down all attempts to discuss how we can prevent this sort of thing in future.

Of course democrats will like to avoid the thorny subjects. This is the left's version of Charlottesville but on a grander scale.

Respect for the dead would be to make sure events like this don't ever happen again. Ignoring the problem won't solve it.

Sure go ahead and show us the Democrats/liberals who DON'T want to discuss the issue of terrorism?

The right's "thoughts and prayers/now is not the time" cynicism on gun violence is undeniable and a cliche at this point.

Who should the average person in the US be more worried about running into? An islamic terrorist or some random whackjob with a grievance and easy access to military style weapons?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 01, 2017, 08:55:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2017, 06:39:07 PM

Sure go ahead and show us the Democrats/liberals who DON'T want to discuss the issue of terrorism?

The right's "thoughts and prayers/now is not the time" cynicism on gun violence is undeniable and a cliche at this point.

Who should the average person in the US be more worried about running into? An islamic terrorist or some random whackjob with a grievance and easy access to military style weapons?

(https://images.theconversation.com/files/140430/original/image-20161005-15882-13x0gd1.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=237&fit=clip)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2017, 09:04:14 PM
In December 2012, a gunman walked into Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, and killed 20 children, six adults, and himself. Since then, there have been at least 1,518 mass shootings, with at least 1,715 people killed and 6,089 wounded.

There have been less than 10 terrorist attacks.
Americans are very poor at maths.

Plus there is the NRA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 01, 2017, 09:59:15 PM
Maybe, just maybe these investigations will bring down Clinton, Obama and Trump, how facking great would that be?








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 03:27:19 AM
Don't see how you can bring down retired folks? Either Clinton and Obama are pretty much out of the picture. The current hot seat occupier may not be so fortunate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2017, 09:27:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2017, 09:04:14 PM
In December 2012, a gunman walked into Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, and killed 20 children, six adults, and himself. Since then, there have been at least 1,518 mass shootings, with at least 1,715 people killed and 6,089 wounded.

There have been less than 10 terrorist attacks.
Americans are very poor at maths.

Plus there is the NRA.
Guns have killed over 1,000 people and over 3,000 have been shot in the US since the Las Vegas massacre alone.

But that's not a problem, or something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2017, 10:22:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2017, 09:27:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2017, 09:04:14 PM
In December 2012, a gunman walked into Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, and killed 20 children, six adults, and himself. Since then, there have been at least 1,518 mass shootings, with at least 1,715 people killed and 6,089 wounded.

There have been less than 10 terrorist attacks.
Americans are very poor at maths.

Plus there is the NRA.
Guns have killed over 1,000 people and over 3,000 have been shot in the US since the Las Vegas massacre alone.

But that's not a problem, or something.
That is American Sid. As American as obesity. American is GOOD.
Terrsm is EVIL. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 02, 2017, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2017, 06:39:07 PM
Who should the average person in the US be more worried about running into? An islamic terrorist or some random whackjob with a grievance and easy access to military style weapons?

If illegals/unneeded weren't in the United States in the first place you could devote more time to keeping an eye on the whackjobs. No?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 02, 2017, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 01, 2017, 02:16:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 01, 2017, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 01, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
Surprised there's very little talk on here about the terror attack. Horrible thing to happen and difficult to see what could have been done to prevent it really.


But there is something that can be done - as President Trump has continually stated that a merit based system would help stop such future incidents.

Not surprisingly the usual liberal cheerleaders are very silent today alright. Probably because the guy entered the US on the Diversity visa lottery program. Way to go Senator Schumer. It shows that their dream of flooding the country with ready made democrat voters has some flaws.

Any chance of explaining how a merit based system would help stop such incidents?


Surely you don't need me to explain this to you? You are kidding right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 02, 2017, 01:57:45 PM
If it is such a simple question, your reply should be easy. Please, have at it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2017, 02:19:09 PM
We're the "diversity" visas not introduced as a means to improve the chances of people from Western Europe....(i.e. White people) of getting a green card?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2017, 02:31:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2017, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2017, 06:39:07 PM
Who should the average person in the US be more worried about running into? An islamic terrorist or some random whackjob with a grievance and easy access to military style weapons?

If illegals/unneeded weren't in the United States in the first place you could devote more time to keeping an eye on the whackjobs. No?

Mental health monitoring, background checking and so on, all local and state driven, are lacking because of resources being put towards immigration background checking and enforcement? It's that simple?? Nothing to do with "not an inch" and"from my cold dead hands" approach of the gun lobby?

What are the stats for terrorist or even criminal, never mind murderous, behaviour from immigrants , whether legal or not? How do they compare with citizens? If you removed all the "diversity" immigrants (signed into law under Bush1), what dent would that have made in the crime and murder stats?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2017, 02:33:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2017, 02:19:09 PM
We're the "diversity" visas not introduced as a means to improve the chances of people from Western Europe....(i.e. White people) of getting a green card?

I honestly never heard of them before this week.

But apparently a bipartisan group of senators, including Chuck Schumer, moved to get rid of them four years ago.

I don't know what their reasons were.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 02:56:15 PM
Qq for Foxy
What are
Quoteillegals/unneeded
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2017, 03:12:18 PM
Trump.is calling for the death penalty for the Uzbek. Shouldn't Wayne La Pierre of the NRA be executed too?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2017, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 02, 2017, 03:12:18 PM
Trump.is calling for the death penalty for the Uzbek. Shouldn't Wayne La Pierre of the NRA be executed too?

Yes. By firing squad, just for maximum irony.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2017, 03:55:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2017, 02:31:10 PM

What are the stats for terrorist or even criminal, never mind murderous, behaviour from immigrants , whether legal or not? How do they compare with citizens? If you removed all the "diversity" immigrants (signed into law under Bush1), what dent would that have made in the crime and murder stats?

Undocumented immigrants are more likely to keep their heads down for obvious reasons and considerably less likely to be involved in crime. But you try explaining that to the numbskulls in the "send them back" lobby.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2017, 03:57:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2017, 02:33:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2017, 02:19:09 PM
We're the "diversity" visas not introduced as a means to improve the chances of people from Western Europe....(i.e. White people) of getting a green card?

I honestly never heard of them before this week.

But apparently a bipartisan group of senators, including Chuck Schumer, moved to get rid of them four years ago.

I don't know what their reasons were.

The DV lottery used to be a handy way for Irish people to get into the states. There used to be so many green cards available that just about every Irish person who applied got it. I remember asking a friend how she arrived in the US and she said "Oh I just got the green card and came on over." That's how it was in her day. By the time I got here I had to spend ten years and spend thousands of dollars in lawyers' fees to get my green card. My employer helped me out but I was still out of pocket by quite a lot. And the worst thing about the endless wait is you have to keep checking the online visa bulletin every month to see if the queue has moved. You don't know if they're going to get to you in the next month or the next five years. In the meantime you're on a H1B visa and have to keep your head down at work and make sure you're in the good graces of your boss no matter how mad he is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2017, 04:34:06 PM
Trump proposed a ban on Muslims in December 20q5. He is impulsive. He has no concept of policy. This is going to do serious damage to the US economy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2017, 04:41:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 02, 2017, 04:34:06 PM
Trump proposed a ban on Muslims in December 20q5. He is impulsive. He has no concept of policy. This is going to do serious damage to the US economy.

Only if he can actually get anything done. If the healthcare episode is anything to go by he's going to have a hard time. We'll see how this tax proposal goes. If the rich come out too far ahead then the Dems will oppose it, and if it adds to the deficit then a handful of Repubs (the last surviving sane ones) should be enough to sink it too. 

So far the checks and balances seem to be holding reasonably well. His foreign policy bluster doesn't seem to be getting taken seriously outside the country either. I think the Iranians are well aware that Trump doesn't know what he's doing and will probably be out of office in 2 to 4 years, so the nuclear deal is probably safe for now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 04:50:19 PM
How can a judge preside over a fair trial when the president of the US is calling for the death penalty. Surely the Uzbek can plead that the 6th amendment has been violated, i.e. the right to an impartial jury
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 02, 2017, 05:02:25 PM
He can try, but they'll find a way to overrule him.   Judges are good at this kind of thing:

Just last week, a black criminal defendant in Louisiana was denied his constitutional right to an attorney because the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled six to one that he hadn't really requested a lawyer when he told police during questioning: "I know I didn't do it. So why don't you just give me a lawyer, dawg, 'cause this is not what's up?" The willfully ignorant justices ruled that the defendant had asked for a "lawyer dog," not a lawyer, so he had not invoked his right to counsel.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/opinion/slavery-kelly-civil-war-compromise.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/opinion/slavery-kelly-civil-war-compromise.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 02, 2017, 05:04:40 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 02, 2017, 05:02:25 PM
He can try, but they'll find a way to overrule him.   Judges are good at this kind of thing:

Just last week, a black criminal defendant in Louisiana was denied his constitutional right to an attorney because the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled six to one that he hadn't really requested a lawyer when he told police during questioning: "I know I didn't do it. So why don't you just give me a lawyer, dawg, 'cause this is not what's up?" The willfully ignorant justices ruled that the defendant had asked for a "lawyer dog," not a lawyer, so he had not invoked his right to counsel.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/opinion/slavery-kelly-civil-war-compromise.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/opinion/slavery-kelly-civil-war-compromise.html)

There's a time and place for talking like you're some sort of gangster rapper. That's not it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 02, 2017, 07:36:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2017, 03:57:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2017, 02:33:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2017, 02:19:09 PM
We're the "diversity" visas not introduced as a means to improve the chances of people from Western Europe....(i.e. White people) of getting a green card?

I honestly never heard of them before this week.

But apparently a bipartisan group of senators, including Chuck Schumer, moved to get rid of them four years ago.

I don't know what their reasons were.

The DV lottery used to be a handy way for Irish people to get into the states. There used to be so many green cards available that just about every Irish person who applied got it. I remember asking a friend how she arrived in the US and she said "Oh I just got the green card and came on over." That's how it was in her day. By the time I got here I had to spend ten years and spend thousands of dollars in lawyers' fees to get my green card. My employer helped me out but I was still out of pocket by quite a lot. And the worst thing about the endless wait is you have to keep checking the online visa bulletin every month to see if the queue has moved. You don't know if they're going to get to you in the next month or the next five years. In the meantime you're on a H1B visa and have to keep your head down at work and make sure you're in the good graces of your boss no matter how mad he is.
what visa did you enter the country on Eamon? why did it take ten years? and $1000s?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2017, 07:50:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2017, 05:04:40 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 02, 2017, 05:02:25 PM
He can try, but they'll find a way to overrule him.   Judges are good at this kind of thing:

Just last week, a black criminal defendant in Louisiana was denied his constitutional right to an attorney because the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled six to one that he hadn't really requested a lawyer when he told police during questioning: "I know I didn't do it. So why don't you just give me a lawyer, dawg, 'cause this is not what's up?" The willfully ignorant justices ruled that the defendant had asked for a "lawyer dog," not a lawyer, so he had not invoked his right to counsel.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/opinion/slavery-kelly-civil-war-compromise.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/opinion/slavery-kelly-civil-war-compromise.html)

There's a time and place for talking like you're some sort of gangster rapper. That's not it.

Get a grip FFS.

There's no law against dialect or colloquial speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 02, 2017, 11:22:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2017, 03:55:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2017, 02:31:10 PM

What are the stats for terrorist or even criminal, never mind murderous, behaviour from immigrants , whether legal or not? How do they compare with citizens? If you removed all the "diversity" immigrants (signed into law under Bush1), what dent would that have made in the crime and murder stats?

Undocumented immigrants are more likely to keep their heads down for obvious reasons and considerably less likely to be involved in crime. But you try explaining that to the numbskulls in the "send them back" lobby.

Let me see if I am getting this right, the reason undoumented illegals do not commit more crimes is that they are in the country illegally and are afraid of being deported???? Now thats quality!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 11:23:59 PM
Quote
what visa did you enter the country on Eamon? why did it take ten years? and $1000s?

Ice, that's really not unusual if you don't marry a citizen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2017, 12:55:34 AM
Quote from: stew on November 02, 2017, 11:22:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2017, 03:55:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2017, 02:31:10 PM

What are the stats for terrorist or even criminal, never mind murderous, behaviour from immigrants , whether legal or not? How do they compare with citizens? If you removed all the "diversity" immigrants (signed into law under Bush1), what dent would that have made in the crime and murder stats?

Undocumented immigrants are more likely to keep their heads down for obvious reasons and considerably less likely to be involved in crime. But you try explaining that to the numbskulls in the "send them back" lobby.

Let me see if I am getting this right, the reason undoumented illegals do not commit more crimes is that they are in the country illegally and are afraid of being deported???? Now thats quality!


Anyone who comes illegally bypasses and and all vetting while those who come legally are (or at least should be) vetted

The big problem that occurred in MA is that some very very bad people (illegals) who got lifted should have been handed straight over to ICE. Instead they got released went on to commit even worse crimes and typically the victims are other (law abiding) illegals or people of color who live in poor neighborhoods.

The illegals aren't sipping soy lattes in Wellesley with the hot soccer moms....they're in the poorest minority neighborhoods that already have high levels of crime
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2017, 04:12:47 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 04:50:19 PM
How can a judge preside over a fair trial when the president of the US is calling for the death penalty. Surely the Uzbek can plead that the 6th amendment has been violated, i.e. the right to an impartial jury
he rented a truck and drove on the sidewalk in Manhattan and tried to kill as many people as he could but u worry about a fair trial for this Bastard ,trump is expressing what most people think should happen to this piece of shit , would that not be a good signal to send out to other potential terrorists ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 03, 2017, 08:10:03 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 04:50:19 PM
How can a judge preside over a fair trial when the president of the US is calling for the death penalty. Surely the Uzbek can plead that the 6th amendment has been violated, i.e. the right to an impartial jury

Is he a citizen?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 09:12:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2017, 04:12:47 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 04:50:19 PM
How can a judge preside over a fair trial when the president of the US is calling for the death penalty. Surely the Uzbek can plead that the 6th amendment has been violated, i.e. the right to an impartial jury
he rented a truck and drove on the sidewalk in Manhattan and tried to kill as many people as he could but u worry about a fair trial for this b**tard ,trump is expressing what most people think should happen to this piece of shit , would that not be a good signal to send out to other potential terrorists ?

If they can rig or bias his trial, they can rig or bias your's. This person should be tried fairly and suffer the appropriate consequences for his actions. And do you really think Islamic terrorists give a f**k about the death penalty?

Trump should have learned from his ridiculous behaviour with the Central Park Five case, but then again that would presume some consideration and reflection and self awareness on his part.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2017, 09:26:44 AM
Trump is just as much a piece of shit as the Uzbek or the white right wing gun nut terrorists who've murdered how many Americans on the last 10 years.
Just as well "Gmac" wasn't in charge of British security in the 1970s or the Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, Maguires, Judith Ward etc would have been lynched immediately.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 03, 2017, 09:30:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 09:12:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2017, 04:12:47 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 04:50:19 PM
How can a judge preside over a fair trial when the president of the US is calling for the death penalty. Surely the Uzbek can plead that the 6th amendment has been violated, i.e. the right to an impartial jury
he rented a truck and drove on the sidewalk in Manhattan and tried to kill as many people as he could but u worry about a fair trial for this b**tard ,trump is expressing what most people think should happen to this piece of shit , would that not be a good signal to send out to other potential terrorists ?

If they can rig or bias his trial, they can rig or bias your's. This person should be tried fairly and suffer the appropriate consequences for his actions. And do you really think Islamic terrorists give a f**k about the death penalty?

Trump should have learned from his ridiculous behaviour with the Central Park Five case, but then again that would presume some consideration and reflection and self awareness on his part.

your's???? J70, I've never seen you that rattled. Hardy will be gutted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 09:41:33 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2017, 09:30:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 09:12:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2017, 04:12:47 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 04:50:19 PM
How can a judge preside over a fair trial when the president of the US is calling for the death penalty. Surely the Uzbek can plead that the 6th amendment has been violated, i.e. the right to an impartial jury
he rented a truck and drove on the sidewalk in Manhattan and tried to kill as many people as he could but u worry about a fair trial for this b**tard ,trump is expressing what most people think should happen to this piece of shit , would that not be a good signal to send out to other potential terrorists ?

If they can rig or bias his trial, they can rig or bias your's. This person should be tried fairly and suffer the appropriate consequences for his actions. And do you really think Islamic terrorists give a f**k about the death penalty?

Trump should have learned from his ridiculous behaviour with the Central Park Five case, but then again that would presume some consideration and reflection and self awareness on his part.

your's???? J70, I've never seen you that rattled. Hardy will be gutted.

;D :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:19:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 09:41:33 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2017, 09:30:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 09:12:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2017, 04:12:47 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 02, 2017, 04:50:19 PM
How can a judge preside over a fair trial when the president of the US is calling for the death penalty. Surely the Uzbek can plead that the 6th amendment has been violated, i.e. the right to an impartial jury
he rented a truck and drove on the sidewalk in Manhattan and tried to kill as many people as he could but u worry about a fair trial for this b**tard ,trump is expressing what most people think should happen to this piece of shit , would that not be a good signal to send out to other potential terrorists ?

If they can rig or bias his trial, they can rig or bias your's. This person should be tried fairly and suffer the appropriate consequences for his actions. And do you really think Islamic terrorists give a f**k about the death penalty?

Trump should have learned from his ridiculous behaviour with the Central Park Five case, but then again that would presume some consideration and reflection and self awareness on his part.

your's???? J70, I've never seen you that rattled. Hardy will be gutted.

;D :)

A judge can do his job, you know, the one he is paid to do and he can weigh the evidence and make a decision from there, Trump really is a screwball.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 03, 2017, 10:54:54 AM
Not sure if being obtuse on purpose, so maybe baby steps through the process.

The president of the US saying he should get the death penalty results in a prejudiced jury meaning the man goes free. 

Defendants lawyer to any potential juror

"Are you aware of what the president of the United States said about this man?"
"Yes"
"Dismissed"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 03, 2017, 10:56:53 AM
Interesting read.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41826022
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 03, 2017, 12:23:51 PM
All kicking off tomorrow:
https://refusefascism.org/get-organized-for-november-4/ (https://refusefascism.org/get-organized-for-november-4/)

Anybody joining in?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 12:40:21 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 03, 2017, 12:23:51 PM
All kicking off tomorrow:
https://refusefascism.org/get-organized-for-november-4/ (https://refusefascism.org/get-organized-for-november-4/)

Anybody joining in?

Haven't heard much about it all, except through a friend who was debating some moron on facebook who claimed that a violent armed insurrection is coming tomorrow and was getting his guns ready to defend the nation and Trump!

My three year old daughter has a birthday party to go to tomorrow afternoon, so I won't be able to make the coup attempt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Longshanks on November 03, 2017, 01:00:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 03, 2017, 10:56:53 AM
Interesting read.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41826022

Just read that article Franko, thanks for the link.

Long read but some very good points actually especially regarding bipartisanship.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on November 03, 2017, 01:17:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 12:40:21 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 03, 2017, 12:23:51 PM
All kicking off tomorrow:
https://refusefascism.org/get-organized-for-november-4/ (https://refusefascism.org/get-organized-for-november-4/)

Anybody joining in?

Haven't heard much about it all, except through a friend who was debating some moron on facebook who claimed that a violent armed insurrection is coming tomorrow and was getting his guns ready to defend the nation and Trump!

My three year old daughter has a birthday party to go to tomorrow afternoon, so I won't be able to make the coup attempt.
I don't know what to make of it J70.  If you read through the site it is very organized. On the media page it lists a bunch of FB, twitter campaigns for people to run to attract more attendees. They are hoping tomorrow is day 1 and it will snowball from there. If you click one campaign and follow it on FB the shares are extremely high - it's going far and wide across the country. Whether or not people come out is a different thing but if you look at some of the recent riots at UC Berkeley they have numbers and the police seem to be leaving them to it.
We have a community wide yard sale so I'll be busy haggling with old men over jeans that don't fit me anymore... but based on what I see I think major cities will have riots.
watch this space.........
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 03, 2017, 01:27:04 PM
QuoteIt's been 34 days since Congress let CHIP, the children's health insurance program that insures 9,000,000, expire.

This is an ongoing disgrace
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:37:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 03, 2017, 10:54:54 AM
Not sure if being obtuse on purpose, so maybe baby steps through the process.

The president of the US saying he should get the death penalty results in a prejudiced jury meaning the man goes free. 

Defendants lawyer to any potential juror

"Are you aware of what the president of the United States said about this man?"
"Yes"
"Dismissed"

Its the people that say 'No' to that question we need to be worried about!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.

I dont give a fiddlers fart about the GOP! True story.

I dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!

If she did run again you would back her over ANY Republican would you not????

Fascists out marching tomorrow pretending to be anti fascists, only in America!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 03, 2017, 01:44:44 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PMI dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!


Quote from: stew on October 27, 2017, 09:15:39 AMBernie is no democrat, Trump was and Killory is thank God, maybe, in Hillarys case she can start explaining why she covered up the paedophile ring among her political friends, that would be nice and might put a few c***ts behind bars, Hillers included.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.

I dont give a fiddlers fart about the GOP! True story.

I dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!

If she did run again you would back her over ANY Republican would you not????

Fascists out marching tomorrow pretending to be anti fascists, only in America!

If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, you must have ceased in the past few minutes. You've referred to the Vince Foster and other Clinton-related conspiracy theories plenty of times before, while you're still referring to Hillary as"killory".

And yes, I would vote for her over most likely Republicans in a presidential race, especially as she is a very capable politician and the GOP has gone off the deep end with their policies and appeals to the paranoia and prejudice of the extreme right. But  the primaries and contributions are a different affair and she is finished.

As for the protests, how does anti-fascism equal fascism?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

Don't see how Trump would have any reason to investigate the DNC unless he is alleging laws were broken?

And Bernie might have beaten Trump, but how could you know? The media hardly laid a glove on him, and who knows what wild shit Trump would have pulled? Bernie was dismissed for years as a far left crank, the liberal counterpart of Ron Paul, interesting but ultimately harmless due to his lack of mainstream influence.

As for their "system", the superdelegates and so on have been in place for decades. Had Hillary not considered herself above the law with the emails, she'd be president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/819416557227044864/HvXp2gKh.jpg)

Pass the popcorn Donald!! This is going to be so much fun watching them rip each other apart.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

Don't see how Trump would have any reason to investigate the DNC unless he is alleging laws were broken?

And Bernie might have beaten Trump, but how could you know? The media hardly laid a glove on him, and who knows what wild shit Trump would have pulled? Bernie was dismissed for years as a far left crank, the liberal counterpart of Ron Paul, interesting but ultimately harmless due to his lack of mainstream influence.

As for their "system", the superdelegates and so on have been in place for decades. Had Hillary not considered herself above the law with the emails, she'd be president.

This is a big deal

People could go to jail over this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:33:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

Don't see how Trump would have any reason to investigate the DNC unless he is alleging laws were broken?

And Bernie might have beaten Trump, but how could you know? The media hardly laid a glove on him, and who knows what wild shit Trump would have pulled? Bernie was dismissed for years as a far left crank, the liberal counterpart of Ron Paul, interesting but ultimately harmless due to his lack of mainstream influence.

As for their "system", the superdelegates and so on have been in place for decades. Had Hillary not considered herself above the law with the emails, she'd be president.

This is a big deal

People could go to jail over this

So laws WERE allegedly broken?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:52:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:33:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

Don't see how Trump would have any reason to investigate the DNC unless he is alleging laws were broken?

And Bernie might have beaten Trump, but how could you know? The media hardly laid a glove on him, and who knows what wild shit Trump would have pulled? Bernie was dismissed for years as a far left crank, the liberal counterpart of Ron Paul, interesting but ultimately harmless due to his lack of mainstream influence.

As for their "system", the superdelegates and so on have been in place for decades. Had Hillary not considered herself above the law with the emails, she'd be president.

This is a big deal

People could go to jail over this

So laws WERE allegedly broken?

They were broken alright.
 

Serious shit storm coming down on those involved
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:52:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:33:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

Don't see how Trump would have any reason to investigate the DNC unless he is alleging laws were broken?

And Bernie might have beaten Trump, but how could you know? The media hardly laid a glove on him, and who knows what wild shit Trump would have pulled? Bernie was dismissed for years as a far left crank, the liberal counterpart of Ron Paul, interesting but ultimately harmless due to his lack of mainstream influence.

As for their "system", the superdelegates and so on have been in place for decades. Had Hillary not considered herself above the law with the emails, she'd be president.

This is a big deal

People could go to jail over this

So laws WERE allegedly broken?

They were broken alright.
 

Serious shit storm coming down on those involved

What laws though?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.

I dont give a fiddlers fart about the GOP! True story.

I dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!

If she did run again you would back her over ANY Republican would you not????

Fascists out marching tomorrow pretending to be anti fascists, only in America!

If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, you must have ceased in the past few minutes. You've referred to the Vince Foster and other Clinton-related conspiracy theories plenty of times before, while you're still referring to Hillary as"killory".

As for the protests, how does anti-fascism equal fascism?

J70 - can we call her Crooked Hillary now?  ;D

PS - The way the "anti-facists" act is probably the reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2017, 03:01:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:52:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:33:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

Don't see how Trump would have any reason to investigate the DNC unless he is alleging laws were broken?

And Bernie might have beaten Trump, but how could you know? The media hardly laid a glove on him, and who knows what wild shit Trump would have pulled? Bernie was dismissed for years as a far left crank, the liberal counterpart of Ron Paul, interesting but ultimately harmless due to his lack of mainstream influence.

As for their "system", the superdelegates and so on have been in place for decades. Had Hillary not considered herself above the law with the emails, she'd be president.

This is a big deal

People could go to jail over this

So laws WERE allegedly broken?

They were broken alright.
 

Serious shit storm coming down on those involved

What laws though?

Campaign Finance Law would be the biggest one.

A lawsuit from Bernie supporters was recently tossed.....not on the merits, but on a technicality.

As a Bernie supporter, I said it was rigged from the start and a lot of posters on here laughed at me.

You wouldn't need to be a brain surgeon to figure out what was going on..... if he leaked emails just confirmed it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.

I dont give a fiddlers fart about the GOP! True story.

I dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!

If she did run again you would back her over ANY Republican would you not????

Fascists out marching tomorrow pretending to be anti fascists, only in America!

If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, you must have ceased in the past few minutes. You've referred to the Vince Foster and other Clinton-related conspiracy theories plenty of times before, while you're still referring to Hillary as"killory".

As for the protests, how does anti-fascism equal fascism?

J70 - can we call her Crooked Hillary now?  ;D

PS - The way the "anti-facists" act is probably the reason.

Call her what you like, as long as you call Trump a lying, corrupt, morally bankrupt, misogynist at the same time.

As for the actions of the anti-fascists, sure, all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Violent protest is not synonymous with fascism. White supremacy and misogyny is abhorrent on its own merits, as is the right's and Trump's attempts to exploit white male resentment as a political tool. Violence doesn't come into it. Opposition to white supremacy is a noble cause. That some take it too far into violence or coopt it as a cover for violence doesn't change that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:18:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 03:01:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:52:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:33:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

Don't see how Trump would have any reason to investigate the DNC unless he is alleging laws were broken?

And Bernie might have beaten Trump, but how could you know? The media hardly laid a glove on him, and who knows what wild shit Trump would have pulled? Bernie was dismissed for years as a far left crank, the liberal counterpart of Ron Paul, interesting but ultimately harmless due to his lack of mainstream influence.

As for their "system", the superdelegates and so on have been in place for decades. Had Hillary not considered herself above the law with the emails, she'd be president.

This is a big deal

People could go to jail over this

So laws WERE allegedly broken?

They were broken alright.
 

Serious shit storm coming down on those involved

What laws though?

Campaign Finance Law would be the biggest one.

A lawsuit from Bernie supporters was recently tossed.....not on the merits, but on a technicality.

As a Bernie supporter, I said it was rigged from the start and a lot of posters on here laughed at me.

You wouldn't need to be a brain surgeon to figure out what was going on..... if he leaked emails just confirmed it

We'll see. I'm skeptical. I don't doubt a lot of unethical shit went down. Whether actual laws were broken is a different matter. But I'm not a lawyer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2017, 03:25:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2017, 09:26:44 AM
Trump is just as much a piece of shit as the Uzbek or the white right wing gun nut terrorists who've murdered how many Americans on the last 10 years.
Just as well "Gmac" wasn't in charge of British security in the 1970s or the Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, Maguires, Judith Ward etc would have been lynched immediately.
this is a lot different there is no grey area here he is guilty full stop should go straight to sentencing ,don't give him anymore publicity or waste any taxpayer money on him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2017, 03:28:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!
this is not the front row of a rugby match with bill mclaren commentating 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 03:40:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.

I dont give a fiddlers fart about the GOP! True story.

I dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!

If she did run again you would back her over ANY Republican would you not????

Fascists out marching tomorrow pretending to be anti fascists, only in America!

If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, you must have ceased in the past few minutes. You've referred to the Vince Foster and other Clinton-related conspiracy theories plenty of times before, while you're still referring to Hillary as"killory".

As for the protests, how does anti-fascism equal fascism?

J70 - can we call her Crooked Hillary now?  ;D

PS - The way the "anti-facists" act is probably the reason.

Call her what you like, as long as you call Trump a lying, corrupt, morally bankrupt, misogynist at the same time.

As for the actions of the anti-fascists, sure, all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Violent protest is not synonymous with fascism. White supremacy and misogyny is abhorrent on its own merits, as is the right's and Trump's attempts to exploit white male resentment as a political tool. Violence doesn't come into it. Opposition to white supremacy is a noble cause. That some take it too far into violence or coopt it as a cover for violence doesn't change that.

You still can't concede she is poison. I take it that Brazille did this to screw up any chance of another run at 2020.

If you believe all this PC stuff I feel sorry for you. Your future generations will thank you I'm sure.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2017, 03:25:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2017, 09:26:44 AM
Trump is just as much a piece of shit as the Uzbek or the white right wing gun nut terrorists who've murdered how many Americans on the last 10 years.
Just as well "Gmac" wasn't in charge of British security in the 1970s or the Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, Maguires, Judith Ward etc would have been lynched immediately.
this is a lot different there is no grey area here he is guilty full stop should go straight to sentencing ,don't give him anymore publicity or waste any taxpayer money on him .

Seriously?

Bypass all the legal niceties and go straight to sentence. Summary executions?

And who gets to make the decisions in this throwback to the days of dictators? Where are the checks and balances to ensure justice is served? Where is the line between summary justice and due process and who decides when and where it applies?

We are living in a time when idiots are alleging massive multiagency government conspiracies for everything from JFK to 9-11 to Sandy Hook and you want to give the government the power of summary justice? That should work out well!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 03:40:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.

I dont give a fiddlers fart about the GOP! True story.

I dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!

If she did run again you would back her over ANY Republican would you not????

Fascists out marching tomorrow pretending to be anti fascists, only in America!

If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, you must have ceased in the past few minutes. You've referred to the Vince Foster and other Clinton-related conspiracy theories plenty of times before, while you're still referring to Hillary as"killory".

As for the protests, how does anti-fascism equal fascism?

J70 - can we call her Crooked Hillary now?  ;D

PS - The way the "anti-facists" act is probably the reason.

Call her what you like, as long as you call Trump a lying, corrupt, morally bankrupt, misogynist at the same time.

As for the actions of the anti-fascists, sure, all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Violent protest is not synonymous with fascism. White supremacy and misogyny is abhorrent on its own merits, as is the right's and Trump's attempts to exploit white male resentment as a political tool. Violence doesn't come into it. Opposition to white supremacy is a noble cause. That some take it too far into violence or coopt it as a cover for violence doesn't change that.

You still can't concede she is poison. I take it that Brazille did this to screw up any chance of another run at 2020.

If you believe all this PC stuff I feel sorry for you. Your future generations will thank you I'm sure.

What are you on about?

I've said numerous times here that she was a terrible candidate and brought her defeat on herself through her sense of entitlement and considering herself above the law. I've little sympathy for her personally.

Yet you're the one on here talking glowingly and respectfully about "President Trump" and referring to Obama as "the Kenyan", so spare me the sanctimony.

I stand by the anti fascist bit. Feel free to debate the point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 03:40:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.

I dont give a fiddlers fart about the GOP! True story.

I dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!

If she did run again you would back her over ANY Republican would you not????

Fascists out marching tomorrow pretending to be anti fascists, only in America!

If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, you must have ceased in the past few minutes. You've referred to the Vince Foster and other Clinton-related conspiracy theories plenty of times before, while you're still referring to Hillary as"killory".

As for the protests, how does anti-fascism equal fascism?

J70 - can we call her Crooked Hillary now?  ;D

PS - The way the "anti-facists" act is probably the reason.

Call her what you like, as long as you call Trump a lying, corrupt, morally bankrupt, misogynist at the same time.

As for the actions of the anti-fascists, sure, all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Violent protest is not synonymous with fascism. White supremacy and misogyny is abhorrent on its own merits, as is the right's and Trump's attempts to exploit white male resentment as a political tool. Violence doesn't come into it. Opposition to white supremacy is a noble cause. That some take it too far into violence or coopt it as a cover for violence doesn't change that.

You still can't concede she is poison. I take it that Brazille did this to screw up any chance of another run at 2020.

If you believe all this PC stuff I feel sorry for you. Your future generations will thank you I'm sure.

What are you on about?

I've said numerous times here that she was a terrible candidate and brought her defeat on herself through her sense of entitlement and considering herself above the law. I've little sympathy for her personally.

Yet you're the one on here talking glowingly and respectfully about "President Trump" and referring to Obama as "the Kenyan", so spare me the sanctimony.

I stand by the anti fascist bit. Feel free to debate the point.

Are you telling me that we need to be respectful towards ALL presidents?

If you have observed the behaviour of the anti-facists towards conservative speakers at college campuses and you're ok with it then there's nothing to debate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 05:06:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 03:40:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.

I dont give a fiddlers fart about the GOP! True story.

I dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!

If she did run again you would back her over ANY Republican would you not????

Fascists out marching tomorrow pretending to be anti fascists, only in America!

If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, you must have ceased in the past few minutes. You've referred to the Vince Foster and other Clinton-related conspiracy theories plenty of times before, while you're still referring to Hillary as"killory".

As for the protests, how does anti-fascism equal fascism?

J70 - can we call her Crooked Hillary now?  ;D

PS - The way the "anti-facists" act is probably the reason.

Call her what you like, as long as you call Trump a lying, corrupt, morally bankrupt, misogynist at the same time.

As for the actions of the anti-fascists, sure, all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Violent protest is not synonymous with fascism. White supremacy and misogyny is abhorrent on its own merits, as is the right's and Trump's attempts to exploit white male resentment as a political tool. Violence doesn't come into it. Opposition to white supremacy is a noble cause. That some take it too far into violence or coopt it as a cover for violence doesn't change that.

You still can't concede she is poison. I take it that Brazille did this to screw up any chance of another run at 2020.

If you believe all this PC stuff I feel sorry for you. Your future generations will thank you I'm sure.

What are you on about?

I've said numerous times here that she was a terrible candidate and brought her defeat on herself through her sense of entitlement and considering herself above the law. I've little sympathy for her personally.

Yet you're the one on here talking glowingly and respectfully about "President Trump" and referring to Obama as "the Kenyan", so spare me the sanctimony.

I stand by the anti fascist bit. Feel free to debate the point.

Are you telling me that we need to be respectful towards ALL presidents?

If you have observed the behaviour of the anti-facists towards conservative speakers at college campuses and you're ok with it then there's nothing to debate.

No, I'm saying if you're going to use Trump's childish terms of abuse for Hillary or whoever, then maybe you should acknowledge the sorry excuse for a human being that he himself is. I mean seriously, you're backing Trump, of all people, while condemning Hillary for being "crooked"? Seriously?

And what part of "all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law" do you not understand?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 06:39:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 05:06:03 PM
No, I'm saying if you're going to use Trump's childish terms of abuse for Hillary or whoever, then maybe you should acknowledge the sorry excuse for a human being that he himself is. I mean seriously, you're backing Trump, of all people, while condemning Hillary for being "crooked"? Seriously?

And what part of "all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law" do you not understand?

To be fair I've not heard of President Trump rig a primary election, sell 20% of all uranium stocks to Russia, ignore a subpoena of a server containing 30,000 emails and destroy it and all evidence and spend 12 million conducting "opposition research" amongst other things.

You can say calling her "Crooked Hillary" is childish but I think it's pretty accurate.

I'm ordering this on ebay now. $18
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SQIAAOSwSv1XluwI/s-l300.jpg)

CNN owe President Trump an apology
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politics/donald-trump-election-2016-rigged/index.html

The anti-fascists fascists aren't always violent. Should they be arrested for interrupting public gatherings?
Should be locked up for breaching other peoples rights. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 06:39:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 05:06:03 PM
No, I'm saying if you're going to use Trump's childish terms of abuse for Hillary or whoever, then maybe you should acknowledge the sorry excuse for a human being that he himself is. I mean seriously, you're backing Trump, of all people, while condemning Hillary for being "crooked"? Seriously?

And what part of "all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law" do you not understand?

To be fair I've not heard of President Trump rig a primary election, sell 20% of all uranium stocks to Russia, ignore a subpoena of a server containing 30,000 emails and destroy it and all evidence and spend 12 million conducting "opposition research" amongst other things.

You can say calling her "Crooked Hillary" is childish but I think it's pretty accurate.

I'm ordering this on ebay now. $18
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SQIAAOSwSv1XluwI/s-l300.jpg)

CNN owe President Trump an apology
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politics/donald-trump-election-2016-rigged/index.html

The anti-fascists fascists aren't always violent. Should they be arrested for interrupting public gatherings?
Should be locked up for breaching other peoples rights.

How was the election rigged?

Did she hold a gun to people's heads in the voting booth? Did she collude with Putin and his troll farms to sink Bernie with fake propaganda? Did she have Bernie removed from ballots? Did Bernie's message not get out there?

What actual effect did the skullduggery have?

On the other hand, has Trump not admitted to buying access and favours from politicians left, right and center over the years ? Has he not swindled countless businesses out of their pay through bankruptcy, lawyers and plain telling them to go f**k themselves? Was he not pursued by the authorities for racially-based discrimination? Are there not questions over his kids trying to falsely inflate the values and sales of properties to attract buyers, with the DA looking the other way following campaign contributions from Trump's personal lawyer? Has he not settled cases of fraud involving his ludicrous "university" which was set up to swindle people out of their hard earned cash? Has he not been accused of sexual harassment and caught on tape boasting about it? Are there no questions about his dealings with the mafia back in the 80s?

No, the anti-fascists should not be arrested  for interrupting public gatherings. The US has free speech. If you don't want to be heckled or shouted down, hold your gathering in private.

Not seeing where CNN owes Trump an apology based on that article??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2017, 07:55:55 PM
Do you think the Antifa people should be arrested if they smash people over the head with bicycle locks

Do you think they (or any protester) should be masked?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 09:20:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2017, 07:55:55 PM
Do you think the Antifa people should be arrested if they smash people over the head with bicycle locks

Do you think they (or any protester) should be masked?

Obviously on the first. Have I not stated that multiple times today?


Second, I can think of examples where wearing a mask during a protest would be appropriate, so I've no problem with a mask per se.

To hide the identity of someone engaging in violence is obviously different and goes back to the first.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 06:39:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 05:06:03 PM
No, I'm saying if you're going to use Trump's childish terms of abuse for Hillary or whoever, then maybe you should acknowledge the sorry excuse for a human being that he himself is. I mean seriously, you're backing Trump, of all people, while condemning Hillary for being "crooked"? Seriously?

And what part of "all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law" do you not understand?

To be fair I've not heard of President Trump rig a primary election, sell 20% of all uranium stocks to Russia, ignore a subpoena of a server containing 30,000 emails and destroy it and all evidence and spend 12 million conducting "opposition research" amongst other things.

You can say calling her "Crooked Hillary" is childish but I think it's pretty accurate.

I'm ordering this on ebay now. $18
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SQIAAOSwSv1XluwI/s-l300.jpg)

CNN owe President Trump an apology
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politics/donald-trump-election-2016-rigged/index.html

The anti-fascists fascists aren't always violent. Should they be arrested for interrupting public gatherings?
Should be locked up for breaching other peoples rights.

How was the election rigged?

Did she hold a gun to people's heads in the voting booth? Did she collude with Putin and his troll farms to sink Bernie with fake propaganda? Did she have Bernie removed from ballots? Did Bernie's message not get out there?

What actual effect did the skullduggery have?

On the other hand, has Trump not admitted to buying access and favours from politicians left, right and center over the years ? Has he not swindled countless businesses out of their pay through bankruptcy, lawyers and plain telling them to go f**k themselves? Was he not pursued by the authorities for racially-based discrimination? Are there not questions over his kids trying to falsely inflate the values and sales of properties to attract buyers, with the DA looking the other way following campaign contributions from Trump's personal lawyer? Has he not settled cases of fraud involving his ludicrous "university" which was set up to swindle people out of their hard earned cash? Has he not been accused of sexual harassment and caught on tape boasting about it? Are there no questions about his dealings with the mafia back in the 80s?

No, the anti-fascists should not be arrested  for interrupting public gatherings. The US has free speech. If you don't want to be heckled or shouted down, hold your gathering in private.

Not seeing where CNN owes Trump an apology based on that article??

I was showing that President Trump was in fact correct.
I'm sure you watched CNN through the election and listened to their chatter. They pretty much called the president a liar throughout, especially when he made the statement about the rigging. That could never happen in the DNC etc.

See my tagline.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 07:09:06 PM

No, the anti-fascists should not be arrested  for interrupting public gatherings. The US has free speech. If you don't want to be heckled or shouted down, hold your gathering in private.


I'm sure you've seen the footage and it is nothing like just heckling. It's organised intimidation tactics. Absolutely disgraceful.
And you really think you're on the side of free speech. Laughable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 10:49:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 03:40:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Donna Brazile, that notorious neo conservative has turned on Killory, in her new book she talks of killory doing a deal, four months before she announced she was running for the office of POTUS btw, and her deal with the Democrat party, she was to have control over the entire process including managing campaign funds, no shock there, of course Bernie, when told the news accepted it, took it up the ass and did not kick up a fuss! Why I ask myself????

The democrat party is once again exposed as a corrupt, divided party, unfit to govern due to the elites f**king over the members once again, Kilory in 2020 for some of you lads and lassies on here no doubt! Sad! )

Yeah, the Dems are a mess.

They should look to the GOP for how to do unity, lack of corruption and elites looking out for the working man.

Oh... wait...

Think you need to say "killory" a few more times. No one has gotten the hint yet that you have an unhealthy obsession with and belief in the conspiracy theories surrounding her.

And you'll have to point out those among us who are clamouring for her to run again.

I dont give a fiddlers fart about the GOP! True story.

I dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!

If she did run again you would back her over ANY Republican would you not????

Fascists out marching tomorrow pretending to be anti fascists, only in America!

If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, you must have ceased in the past few minutes. You've referred to the Vince Foster and other Clinton-related conspiracy theories plenty of times before, while you're still referring to Hillary as"killory".

As for the protests, how does anti-fascism equal fascism?

J70 - can we call her Crooked Hillary now?  ;D

PS - The way the "anti-facists" act is probably the reason.

Call her what you like, as long as you call Trump a lying, corrupt, morally bankrupt, misogynist at the same time.

As for the actions of the anti-fascists, sure, all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Violent protest is not synonymous with fascism. White supremacy and misogyny is abhorrent on its own merits, as is the right's and Trump's attempts to exploit white male resentment as a political tool. Violence doesn't come into it. Opposition to white supremacy is a noble cause. That some take it too far into violence or coopt it as a cover for violence doesn't change that.

You still can't concede she is poison. I take it that Brazille did this to screw up any chance of another run at 2020.

If you believe all this PC stuff I feel sorry for you. Your future generations will thank you I'm sure.

What are you on about?

I've said numerous times here that she was a terrible candidate and brought her defeat on herself through her sense of entitlement and considering herself above the law. I've little sympathy for her personally.

Yet you're the one on here talking glowingly and respectfully about "President Trump" and referring to Obama as "the Kenyan", so spare me the sanctimony.

I stand by the anti fascist bit. Feel free to debate the point.

Are you telling me that we need to be respectful towards ALL presidents?

If you have observed the behaviour of the anti-facists towards conservative speakers at college campuses and you're ok with it then there's nothing to debate.

A very loose use of that term I would suggest!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 11:09:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 06:39:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 05:06:03 PM
No, I'm saying if you're going to use Trump's childish terms of abuse for Hillary or whoever, then maybe you should acknowledge the sorry excuse for a human being that he himself is. I mean seriously, you're backing Trump, of all people, while condemning Hillary for being "crooked"? Seriously?

And what part of "all violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law" do you not understand?

To be fair I've not heard of President Trump rig a primary election, sell 20% of all uranium stocks to Russia, ignore a subpoena of a server containing 30,000 emails and destroy it and all evidence and spend 12 million conducting "opposition research" amongst other things.

You can say calling her "Crooked Hillary" is childish but I think it's pretty accurate.

I'm ordering this on ebay now. $18
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SQIAAOSwSv1XluwI/s-l300.jpg)

CNN owe President Trump an apology
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politics/donald-trump-election-2016-rigged/index.html

The anti-fascists fascists aren't always violent. Should they be arrested for interrupting public gatherings?
Should be locked up for breaching other peoples rights.

How was the election rigged?

Did she hold a gun to people's heads in the voting booth? Did she collude with Putin and his troll farms to sink Bernie with fake propaganda? Did she have Bernie removed from ballots? Did Bernie's message not get out there?

What actual effect did the skullduggery have?

On the other hand, has Trump not admitted to buying access and favours from politicians left, right and center over the years ? Has he not swindled countless businesses out of their pay through bankruptcy, lawyers and plain telling them to go f**k themselves? Was he not pursued by the authorities for racially-based discrimination? Are there not questions over his kids trying to falsely inflate the values and sales of properties to attract buyers, with the DA looking the other way following campaign contributions from Trump's personal lawyer? Has he not settled cases of fraud involving his ludicrous "university" which was set up to swindle people out of their hard earned cash? Has he not been accused of sexual harassment and caught on tape boasting about it? Are there no questions about his dealings with the mafia back in the 80s?

No, the anti-fascists should not be arrested  for interrupting public gatherings. The US has free speech. If you don't want to be heckled or shouted down, hold your gathering in private.

Not seeing where CNN owes Trump an apology based on that article??

I was showing that President Trump was in fact correct.
I'm sure you watched CNN through the election and listened to their chatter. They pretty much called the president a liar throughout, especially when he made the statement about the rigging. That could never happen in the DNC etc.

See my tagline.

Given that he was going about three million illegals voting in the election and has appointed a bogus committee to look into voter fraud for which there isn't a scintilla of evidence, I'd say the calls were correct.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2017, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2017, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 07:09:06 PM

No, the anti-fascists should not be arrested  for interrupting public gatherings. The US has free speech. If you don't want to be heckled or shouted down, hold your gathering in private.


I'm sure you've seen the footage and it is nothing like just heckling. It's organised intimidation tactics. Absolutely disgraceful.
And you really think you're on the side of free speech. Laughable.

It's like talking to a wall with you.

I think we can all agree that violence and any law breaking (AGAIN) should be met with the full force of the law. Throw the book at them.

Shouting, heckling, hurting feelings... tough shit.

I'll bet you've no issue with people being verbally abused outside abortion clinics?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2017, 11:25:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2017, 11:12:10 PM

It's like talking to a wall with you.

Now you're catching on, old boy!

Solution:

Profile > Mouseover Modify Profile > Buddies / Ignore List > Edit Ignore List

Type his name into the box and add him. It'll save you so much bother.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.

You and few others on thread are good for a chuckle i give you that. A buffoon like Trump should never be allowed into office he makes George W Bush look like a genius and the mess Bush left behind will be nothing compared to the chaos Trump will leave behind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 04, 2017, 01:27:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.

You and few others on thread are good for a chuckle i give you that. A buffoon like Trump should never be allowed into office he makes George W Bush look like a genius and the mess Bush left behind will be nothing compared to the chaos Trump will leave behind.

i do not like Trump but he was democratically elected by the people so why should he not have been allowed in office? Also lets talk about obamas defecit clusterfuck and get back to me on who is good for a chuckle on here snowflake!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2017, 01:31:59 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.

You and few others on thread are good for a chuckle i give you that. A buffoon like Trump should never be allowed into office he makes George W Bush look like a genius and the mess Bush left behind will be nothing compared to the chaos Trump will leave behind.

Trump was the beginning of the end.

Add in Newt Gingrich and you have a fvckin $shite show of epic proportions.

Those on the right pandered to the extremes and did those on the left

This past cycle, we had the emergence essentially of 2 third party candidates.....Trump and Bernie

Bernie got cheated out of the nomination on the Democratic side  and the Main Stream Media colluded with the Democrats to ensure Trump won the Republican nomination.....at that point in time, Trump was the only Republican that the polls whoed Hillary beating
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:36:33 AM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 01:27:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.

You and few others on thread are good for a chuckle i give you that. A buffoon like Trump should never be allowed into office he makes George W Bush look like a genius and the mess Bush left behind will be nothing compared to the chaos Trump will leave behind.

i do not like Trump but he was democratically elected by the people so why should he not have been allowed in office? Also lets talk about obamas defecit clusterfuck and get back to me on who is good for a chuckle on here snowflake!
Your hate for Obama and the Clinton leaves your judgement so blinded that it needs to question why Trump should not be allowed into office. As for that snowflake remark at the end, thanks for that you gave me another good chuckle there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2017, 11:13:53 AM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 01:27:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.

You and few others on thread are good for a chuckle i give you that. A buffoon like Trump should never be allowed into office he makes George W Bush look like a genius and the mess Bush left behind will be nothing compared to the chaos Trump will leave behind.

i do not like Trump but he was democratically elected by the people so why should he not have been allowed in office? Also lets talk about obamas defecit clusterfuck and get back to me on who is good for a chuckle on here snowflake!

Talk away stew. Tell us again what choice there was for Obama when it came to deficits. And talk to us about the deficit spending now being proposed and defended as necessary for economic growth, by the likes of Mick Mulvaney, deficit hawk extraordinaire, now that he is in the White House and wants huge military spending and tax cuts mostly benefiting the rich.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2017, 11:23:50 AM
Conservatism is broken. Plutocracy broke it. Most Fox news isn't even news at this stage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 04, 2017, 12:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2017, 11:13:53 AM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 01:27:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.

You and few others on thread are good for a chuckle i give you that. A buffoon like Trump should never be allowed into office he makes George W Bush look like a genius and the mess Bush left behind will be nothing compared to the chaos Trump will leave behind.

i do not like Trump but he was democratically elected by the people so why should he not have been allowed in office? Also lets talk about obamas defecit clusterfuck and get back to me on who is good for a chuckle on here snowflake!

Talk away stew. Tell us again what choice there was for Obama when it came to deficits. And talk to us about the deficit spending now being proposed and defended as necessary for economic growth, by the likes of Mick Mulvaney, deficit hawk extraordinaire, now that he is in the White House and wants huge military spending and tax cuts mostly benefiting the rich.

You are defending one man creating more debt in 8  year's than all of his predecessors combined before him????

Only liberals can defend the indefensible, absolutely, military spending was way down in Obamas era, imagine what the deficit would have been if he had given a shit about the military????

The republicans have to spend more on the military, it has been starved of funds for eight years however they seem to be excessive in what they want to spend on the armed forces, as for the tax cuts, they are either helping the middle class or the top 1 percenters, depending on what bent analysts have that are being asked about said tax cuts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2017, 12:16:12 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 12:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2017, 11:13:53 AM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 01:27:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.

You and few others on thread are good for a chuckle i give you that. A buffoon like Trump should never be allowed into office he makes George W Bush look like a genius and the mess Bush left behind will be nothing compared to the chaos Trump will leave behind.

i do not like Trump but he was democratically elected by the people so why should he not have been allowed in office? Also lets talk about obamas defecit clusterfuck and get back to me on who is good for a chuckle on here snowflake!

Talk away stew. Tell us again what choice there was for Obama when it came to deficits. And talk to us about the deficit spending now being proposed and defended as necessary for economic growth, by the likes of Mick Mulvaney, deficit hawk extraordinaire, now that he is in the White House and wants huge military spending and tax cuts mostly benefiting the rich.

You are defending one man creating more debt in 8  year's than all of his predecessors combined before him????

Only liberals can defend the indefensible, absolutely, military spending was way down in Obamas era, imagine what the deficit would have been if he had given a shit about the military????

The republicans have to spend more on the military, it has been starved of funds for eight years however they seem to be excessive in what they want to spend on the armed forces, as for the tax cuts, they are either helping the middle class or the top 1 percenters, depending on what bent analysts have that are being asked about said tax cuts.

So no answer then as to what Obama should have done with the budget in the midst of the worst economic disaster since FDR and an economy haemorrhaging 750K jobs/month when he took over? You didn't have one the previous times you started on this nonsense either.

And the tax cuts, as proposed, may help some middle class people (those of us in high housing cost, local tax states will likely see tax increases), but the benefits are gong to universally beneficial to the rich and of little use or harmful to the working class.

And, GOP rhetoric aside, how has the military suffered from the reduced spending of the Obama years?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 04, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 12:02:34 PM
The republicans have to spend more on the military
That was said recently by loons on Fox news and now to be repeated on here on by Irish man who should have more sense...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2017, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 04, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 12:02:34 PM
The republicans have to spend more on the military
That was said recently by loons on Fox news and now to be repeated on here on by Irish man who should have more sense...

Sense? From Stew?

Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PMI dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!


Quote from: stew on October 27, 2017, 09:15:39 AMBernie is no democrat, Trump was and Killory is thank God, maybe, in Hillarys case she can start explaining why she covered up the paedophile ring among her political friends, that would be nice and might put a few c***ts behind bars, Hillers included.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2017, 11:30:31 AM
So has the right wing fantasy of a second US civil war started, the Fox News "Antifa Apocolypse"?

Not seeing any smoke on the horizon out my window here in NYC this morning. Times Square must still be there...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 01:49:06 AM
Dems win Governor races in NJ and Virginia.

And Don just threw Gillespie under the bus

QuoteEd Gillespie worked hard but did not embrace me or what I stand for. Don't forget, Republicans won 4 out of 4 House seats, and with the economy doing record numbers, we will continue to win, even bigger than before! 

The man who tried to pass the anti-trans bathroom bill just lost in an election  to a trans woman.

QuoteTrans woman Danica Roem (D) just defeated anti-LGBTQ candidate Bob Marshall (R) in Virginia, becoming the first trans state legislator in America.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 08, 2017, 09:33:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2017, 11:13:53 AM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 01:27:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.

You and few others on thread are good for a chuckle i give you that. A buffoon like Trump should never be allowed into office he makes George W Bush look like a genius and the mess Bush left behind will be nothing compared to the chaos Trump will leave behind.

i do not like Trump but he was democratically elected by the people so why should he not have been allowed in office? Also lets talk about obamas defecit clusterfuck and get back to me on who is good for a chuckle on here snowflake!

Talk away stew. Tell us again what choice there was for Obama when it came to deficits. And talk to us about the deficit spending now being proposed and defended as necessary for economic growth, by the likes of Mick Mulvaney, deficit hawk extraordinaire, now that he is in the White House and wants huge military spending and tax cuts mostly benefiting the rich.

He was not supposed to double the defecit in years years ffs!

As for your assessment of the tax breaks, dont believe everything Don Lemon and his ilk says, these breaks are being potrayed as pro middle class and also as super tax cuts for the rich, we shall see.

Asked and answered, Obama came to office and the country was 8 trillion in debt, the day he left the country was 19 trillion in debt, by your rationale this seems to have been his only course of action and this debt, which your generation wont have to pay back by the way, is acceptable! f**k me pink!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 08, 2017, 09:56:48 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 04, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 12:02:34 PM
The republicans have to spend more on the military
That was said recently by loons on Fox news and now to be repeated on here on by Irish man who should have more sense...

Fox news Fox news Fox news, is that all you liberals can talk about? Its not hard, Obama ran down the military during his tenure, thats great and all except his JV squad graduated to varsity and are now a world wide threat to peace, who are going to fix those f**kers? The Irish, the Germans, the brits?? Give me a break!

The yanks have to deal with the middle east, ISIS Al. Queda, that lunatic in North Korea, you know that family right? the one the Clintons, the Bush's and the big O should have put manners on for decades! Yeah that Un crowd, they also prop up Israel and the UN and NATO, yeah, they need funds to upgrade/maintain their fighting forces, oh yeah, it would be nice if they spent money on upgrading their nuclear power plants, they are starting to look like they do is the good ole USSR.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 08, 2017, 10:11:00 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2017, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 04, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 12:02:34 PM
The republicans have to spend more on the military
That was said recently by loons on Fox news and now to be repeated on here on by Irish man who should have more sense...

Sense? From Stew?

Who is going to protect that cess pit you live in if the American military gets depleted Hurl? Trudeau? Nah, dont think so, he is too busy giving millions to terrorists! The UN? Nah, without American dollars and manpower they are f**k all, Nato, what I just said about the UN.



Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 01:40:31 PMI dont believe in conspiracy theories you coward, I believe she is corrupt and a coward and she is both!


Quote from: stew on October 27, 2017, 09:15:39 AMBernie is no democrat, Trump was and Killory is thank God, maybe, in Hillarys case she can start explaining why she covered up the paedophile ring among her political friends, that would be nice and might put a few c***ts behind bars, Hillers included.

Bernie is an avowed socialist Hurl? As for Clinton, you and the rest of the neo liberals on here all know she is knee deep in corruption, you are like sevco however, you deflect and blame the other side for the ills of your party and its leader and above all you are all accountable for nothing, well, except for transgender toilets that is. Well played.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on November 08, 2017, 10:45:06 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 14, 2015, 10:30:18 AM
Just skimming through this thread.

Fox and Stew are complete lunatics.

Sin e.

Time to resurrect this old chestnut. Whitey looking to join the club too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
Whining and deflecting blame about Democratic corruption?? Who is, stew?

You're the one who repeatedly calls Trump " one of ours", as if his political contributions and Democratic status over the years were about anything other than his personal and business convenience and somehow (implausibly) superseded his current real status as a far right, reactionary, right wing, demagogue.

Of course you'll ignore this, as you always do and start ranting about Trump "really" being a Democrat again next week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 10:55:34 AM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2017, 09:33:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2017, 11:13:53 AM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 01:27:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 03, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I get that Hillary did some jiggery pokery to get the nomination but why is Trump looking for a DOJ investigation into it? Surely it's an internal DNC matter that should be investigated by themselves.

They probably thought they were doing the smart thing letting Hillary sail through when in reality Bernie would have done better than her against Trump. They need to get their system back to a fair one to have any chance in 3 years time!

3 more years! That's depressing me never mind the Democrats

Would depress the most optimistic person. I don't know whats worse the buffoon Trump or his deluded followers.

What's worse is that you lived through eight years of absolute awful governance from Obama and you have been bitchin about Trump from before he took office! Hell, yu cant even admit Obama wa brutal.

You and few others on thread are good for a chuckle i give you that. A buffoon like Trump should never be allowed into office he makes George W Bush look like a genius and the mess Bush left behind will be nothing compared to the chaos Trump will leave behind.

i do not like Trump but he was democratically elected by the people so why should he not have been allowed in office? Also lets talk about obamas defecit clusterfuck and get back to me on who is good for a chuckle on here snowflake!

Talk away stew. Tell us again what choice there was for Obama when it came to deficits. And talk to us about the deficit spending now being proposed and defended as necessary for economic growth, by the likes of Mick Mulvaney, deficit hawk extraordinaire, now that he is in the White House and wants huge military spending and tax cuts mostly benefiting the rich.

He was not supposed to double the defecit in years years ffs!

As for your assessment of the tax breaks, dont believe everything Don Lemon and his ilk says, these breaks are being potrayed as pro middle class and also as super tax cuts for the rich, we shall see.

Asked and answered, Obama came to office and the country was 8 trillion in debt, the day he left the country was 19 trillion in debt, by your rationale this seems to have been his only course of action and this debt, which your generation wont have to pay back by the way, is acceptable! f**k me pink!

So once again stew, I ask, just WHAT should have been his course of action, amidst massive job losses, housing losses, business collapses, revenue losses and so on? You're so adamant yet so lacking in alternatives.

As for the tax cuts, even parts of the GOP are getting nervous about the realities of the tax plan for much of the middle class. So spare me the Don Lemon bollocks (while you yourself castigate others for tying your statements to Fox News! :o)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2017, 09:56:48 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 04, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 12:02:34 PM
The republicans have to spend more on the military
That was said recently by loons on Fox news and now to be repeated on here on by Irish man who should have more sense...

Fox news Fox news Fox news, is that all you liberals can talk about? Its not hard, Obama ran down the military during his tenure, thats great and all except his JV squad graduated to varsity and are now a world wide threat to peace, who are going to fix those f**kers? The Irish, the Germans, the brits?? Give me a break!

The yanks have to deal with the middle east, ISIS Al. Queda, that lunatic in North Korea, you know that family right? the one the Clintons, the Bush's and the big O should have put manners on for decades! Yeah that Un crowd, they also prop up Israel and the UN and NATO, yeah, they need funds to upgrade/maintain their fighting forces, oh yeah, it would be nice if they spent money on upgrading their nuclear power plants, they are starting to look like they do is the good ole USSR.

How has the US military been run down?

And what should the US have done differently with the Kim regimes?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2017, 10:59:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2017, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2017, 09:56:48 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 04, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
Quote from: stew on November 04, 2017, 12:02:34 PM
The republicans have to spend more on the military
That was said recently by loons on Fox news and now to be repeated on here on by Irish man who should have more sense...

Fox news Fox news Fox news, is that all you liberals can talk about? Its not hard, Obama ran down the military during his tenure, thats great and all except his JV squad graduated to varsity and are now a world wide threat to peace, who are going to fix those f**kers? The Irish, the Germans, the brits?? Give me a break!

The yanks have to deal with the middle east, ISIS Al. Queda, that lunatic in North Korea, you know that family right? the one the Clintons, the Bush's and the big O should have put manners on for decades! Yeah that Un crowd, they also prop up Israel and the UN and NATO, yeah, they need funds to upgrade/maintain their fighting forces, oh yeah, it would be nice if they spent money on upgrading their nuclear power plants, they are starting to look like they do is the good ole USSR.

How has the US military been run down?

And what should the US have done differently with the Kim regimes?

Clearly they should have made up nicknames and baited them on Twitter years ago!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 08, 2017, 11:04:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
Whining and deflecting blame about Democratic corruption?? Who is, stew?

You're the one who repeatedly calls Trump " one of ours", as if his political contributions and Democratic status over the years were about anything other than his personal and business convenience and somehow (implausibly) superseded his current real status as a far right, reactionary, right wing, demagogue.

Of course you'll ignore this, as you always do and start ranting about Trump "really" being a Democrat again next week.

LOLOLOL so let me get this straight, Trump had democratic ties for years but they were simply business related ties, masking his real idealogy which are far right wing reactionary political leanings? Is that it????

And you and that tube Hurl think I am deluded!  :)

Thanks for that man, you made my day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 08, 2017, 11:05:35 AM
While all the other stuff is going on here's the real story of the election

http://www.gregpalast.com/set-hat-fire/#more-14296 (http://www.gregpalast.com/set-hat-fire/#more-14296)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2017, 11:11:11 AM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2017, 11:04:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
Whining and deflecting blame about Democratic corruption?? Who is, stew?

You're the one who repeatedly calls Trump " one of ours", as if his political contributions and Democratic status over the years were about anything other than his personal and business convenience and somehow (implausibly) superseded his current real status as a far right, reactionary, right wing, demagogue.

Of course you'll ignore this, as you always do and start ranting about Trump "really" being a Democrat again next week.

LOLOLOL so let me get this straight, Trump had democratic ties for years but they were simply business related ties, masking his real idealogy which are far right wing reactionary political leanings? Is that it????

And you and that tube Hurl think I am deluded!  :)

Thanks for that man, you made my day.

Trump has no political ideology. . . he will do what he has to do to win. Whether that's condemn guns one day and the come out and say they're great the next. He is neither a Republican or a Democrat he is totally for what will be the best outcome for himself so this nonsense you're pedaling about him being a Democrat in disguise or some shit is baffling and pretty embarrassing for you . . . kid!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2017, 11:04:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
Whining and deflecting blame about Democratic corruption?? Who is, stew?

You're the one who repeatedly calls Trump " one of ours", as if his political contributions and Democratic status over the years were about anything other than his personal and business convenience and somehow (implausibly) superseded his current real status as a far right, reactionary, right wing, demagogue.

Of course you'll ignore this, as you always do and start ranting about Trump "really" being a Democrat again next week.

LOLOLOL so let me get this straight, Trump had democratic ties for years but they were simply business related ties, masking his real idealogy which are far right wing reactionary political leanings? Is that it????

And you and that tube Hurl think I am deluded!  :)

Thanks for that man, you made my day.

I've explained this a number of times previously (with no response from you), but I'll try one more time.

All Trump was interested in back then was good press and greasing the wheels for his businesses. He gave money left, right and center to suit his needs in whatever locality he was trying to work in. In NYC, that is obviously going to mean Democrats, for the most part.

But whatever his intentions were, now that he has actually thrown his hat in the political ring, he has, either through real conviction or as a tool, decided to go down the road of white American grievance, whether that is through pushing buttons on legitimate concerns like effects of the loss of manufacturing jobs, or racial/muslim/immigrant/science scapegoating, all the while pursuing a traditional GOP plan (on steroids!) to dismantle environmental and consumer protection regulations and cut taxes for the rich.

Now you tell me which version of Trump is real? The business man who paid off everyone for political influence and favours (which he has openly boasted about :o), or the actual president who is governing as a far right demogogue?

And if you can't tell his actual personal convictions, then which version should we be most concerned about? The corrupt businessman of the past, or the actual demagogue occupying the most powerful political position in the world right now?

IS he going to one of these days throw off the mask, disavow all the odious bullshit of the past eight years, say sorry to Obama (as he should if he had an ounce of decency), and start governing as a liberal?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 12:16:34 PM
Decent election night for the Dems. Especially in Virginia. GOP got wiped out even more than usual in NYC area too. Trump and his politics are not exactly popular here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 02:05:31 PM
Holy sh*t. This is how the Democrats battled for the Virginia Governor election.
Talk about smearing your opponent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0thehNSUbc

Nothing is beyond the democrats. Gutterfeeders.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
You can almost hear the sadness in voice last night - https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/928134374519988225

Poor Tucker  :'( :'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 02:38:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 02:05:31 PM
Holy sh*t. This is how the Democrats battled for the Virginia Governor election.
Talk about smearing your opponent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0thehNSUbc

Nothing is beyond the democrats. Gutterfeeders.

Pretty nasty and low all right. Lee Atwater would be proud.

Good job the GOP raises everything up high with their hopeful rhetoric about Mexican rapists and the dangers from Muslims and transgender women.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2017, 03:14:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 02:05:31 PM
Holy sh*t. This is how the Democrats battled for the Virginia Governor election.
Talk about smearing your opponent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0thehNSUbc

Nothing is beyond the democrats. Gutterfeeders.

You OK Snowflake?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
You can almost hear the sadness in voice last night - https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/928134374519988225

Poor Tucker  :'( :'(

I believe Tucker Carlson has got Donna Brazile on his show tonight.

CNN and the other liberal media outlets won't give her airtime and take every opportunity to discredit her. I wonder why :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 08, 2017, 03:14:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 02:05:31 PM
Holy sh*t. This is how the Democrats battled for the Virginia Governor election.
Talk about smearing your opponent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0thehNSUbc

Nothing is beyond the democrats. Gutterfeeders.

You OK Snowflake?

Will survive, thanks for asking ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
You can almost hear the sadness in voice last night - https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/928134374519988225

Poor Tucker  :'( :'(

I believe Tucker Carlson has got Donna Brazile on his show tonight.

CNN and the other liberal media outlets won't give her airtime and take every opportunity to discredit her. I wonder why :D

Really - she was on Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB1zDqZmsQ

And Chris Hayes on MSNBC last night - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqTdGTRiT7g

With George Stephanopoulos on ABC on Sunday morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZcl9fCEvi8

On CBS yesterday morning - http://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/EXHZ9Hnj8qdv9IhIlk3jNSy66e_1kgv5/donna-brazile-on-democratic-party-divisions-clinton-campaign/




Try harder FakeNewsCommander

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 03:41:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
You can almost hear the sadness in voice last night - https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/928134374519988225

Poor Tucker  :'( :'(

I believe Tucker Carlson has got Donna Brazile on his show tonight.

CNN and the other liberal media outlets won't give her airtime and take every opportunity to discredit her. I wonder why :D

Really - she was on Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB1zDqZmsQ

And Chris Hayes on MSNBC last night - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqTdGTRiT7g

With George Stephanopoulos on ABC on Sunday morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZcl9fCEvi8

On CBS yesterday morning - http://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/EXHZ9Hnj8qdv9IhIlk3jNSy66e_1kgv5/donna-brazile-on-democratic-party-divisions-clinton-campaign/




Try harder FakeNewsCommander

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:47:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
You can almost hear the sadness in voice last night - https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/928134374519988225

Poor Tucker  :'( :'(

I believe Tucker Carlson has got Donna Brazile on his show tonight.

CNN and the other liberal media outlets won't give her airtime and take every opportunity to discredit her. I wonder why :D

Really - she was on Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB1zDqZmsQ

And Chris Hayes on MSNBC last night - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqTdGTRiT7g

With George Stephanopoulos on ABC on Sunday morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZcl9fCEvi8

On CBS yesterday morning - http://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/EXHZ9Hnj8qdv9IhIlk3jNSy66e_1kgv5/donna-brazile-on-democratic-party-divisions-clinton-campaign/




Try harder FakeNewsCommander

As far as I'm aware Donna wasn't allowed on CNN to discuss. Maybe you can find me footage of her on that channel to prove me wrong. You would think a topic this huge would merit an interview with their network.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 04:02:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:47:41 PMAs far as I'm aware Donna wasn't allowed on CNN to discuss. Maybe you can find me footage of her on that channel to prove me wrong. You would think a topic this huge would merit an interview with their network.

I wonder where you are getting that from??? https://www.infowars.com/cnn-directed-employees-to-discredit-donna-brazile/


Anyhow - you didn't just say CNN

Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:00 PMCNN and the other liberal media outlets won't give her airtime and take every opportunity to discredit her. I wonder why :D


(https://i.imgur.com/fiBwi1X.gif)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 04:04:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:47:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
You can almost hear the sadness in voice last night - https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/928134374519988225

Poor Tucker  :'( :'(

I believe Tucker Carlson has got Donna Brazile on his show tonight.

CNN and the other liberal media outlets won't give her airtime and take every opportunity to discredit her. I wonder why :D

Really - she was on Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB1zDqZmsQ

And Chris Hayes on MSNBC last night - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqTdGTRiT7g

With George Stephanopoulos on ABC on Sunday morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZcl9fCEvi8

On CBS yesterday morning - http://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/EXHZ9Hnj8qdv9IhIlk3jNSy66e_1kgv5/donna-brazile-on-democratic-party-divisions-clinton-campaign/




Try harder FakeNewsCommander

As far as I'm aware Donna wasn't allowed on CNN to discuss. Maybe you can find me footage of her on that channel to prove me wrong. You would think a topic this huge would merit an interview with their network.

He's already proved you're full of shit. ;D

Shame you can't go back and edit out "the other liberal media outlets" bit. ;)

Hang your hat on "but...but...CNN" if you wish, but you can't hide the fact you just got owned.

Hints for future: double check; don't trust Fox News or Breitbart or Alex Jones etc.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2017, 04:04:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:47:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
You can almost hear the sadness in voice last night - https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/928134374519988225

Poor Tucker  :'( :'(

I believe Tucker Carlson has got Donna Brazile on his show tonight.

CNN and the other liberal media outlets won't give her airtime and take every opportunity to discredit her. I wonder why :D

Really - she was on Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB1zDqZmsQ

And Chris Hayes on MSNBC last night - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqTdGTRiT7g

With George Stephanopoulos on ABC on Sunday morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZcl9fCEvi8

On CBS yesterday morning - http://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/EXHZ9Hnj8qdv9IhIlk3jNSy66e_1kgv5/donna-brazile-on-democratic-party-divisions-clinton-campaign/




Try harder FakeNewsCommander

As far as I'm aware Donna wasn't allowed on CNN to discuss. Maybe you can find me footage of her on that channel to prove me wrong. You would think a topic this huge would merit an interview with their network.

He's already proved you're full of shit. ;D

Shame you can't go back and edit out "the other liberal media outlets" bit. ;)

Hang your hat on "but...but...CNN" if you wish, but you can't hide the fact you just got owned.

Hints for future: double check; don't trust Fox News or Breitbart or Alex Jones etc.

I was correct with my statement. CNN won't have her on.
Keep trying to shift your goalposts lads and ignore the story :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 04:25:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2017, 04:04:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:47:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
You can almost hear the sadness in voice last night - https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/928134374519988225

Poor Tucker  :'( :'(

I believe Tucker Carlson has got Donna Brazile on his show tonight.

CNN and the other liberal media outlets won't give her airtime and take every opportunity to discredit her. I wonder why :D

Really - she was on Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB1zDqZmsQ

And Chris Hayes on MSNBC last night - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqTdGTRiT7g

With George Stephanopoulos on ABC on Sunday morning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZcl9fCEvi8

On CBS yesterday morning - http://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/EXHZ9Hnj8qdv9IhIlk3jNSy66e_1kgv5/donna-brazile-on-democratic-party-divisions-clinton-campaign/




Try harder FakeNewsCommander

As far as I'm aware Donna wasn't allowed on CNN to discuss. Maybe you can find me footage of her on that channel to prove me wrong. You would think a topic this huge would merit an interview with their network.

He's already proved you're full of shit. ;D

Shame you can't go back and edit out "the other liberal media outlets" bit. ;)

Hang your hat on "but...but...CNN" if you wish, but you can't hide the fact you just got owned.

Hints for future: double check; don't trust Fox News or Breitbart or Alex Jones etc.

I was correct with my statement. CNN won't have her on.
Keep trying to shift your goalposts lads and ignore the story :)

Lad, if you want to discuss CNN, go for it, but have some dignity!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 04:28:38 PM
As for CNN, assuming what you say is true  ;) ;D, maybe they're still sore at her for telling Hillary that the bleeding obvious topic of lead-poisoned water might come up in a debate in Flint, Michigan in spring 2016.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 08, 2017, 04:33:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2017, 04:02:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:47:41 PMAs far as I'm aware Donna wasn't allowed on CNN to discuss. Maybe you can find me footage of her on that channel to prove me wrong. You would think a topic this huge would merit an interview with their network.

I wonder where you are getting that from??? https://www.infowars.com/cnn-directed-employees-to-discredit-donna-brazile/


Anyhow - you didn't just say CNN

Quote from: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 03:15:00 PMCNN and the other liberal media outlets won't give her airtime and take every opportunity to discredit her. I wonder why :D


(https://i.imgur.com/fiBwi1X.gif)

They weren't too enamoured with brazile on Democracy Now or maybe I mis-understood it.

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/11/6/headlines/donna_brazile_considered_swapping_biden_for_clinton_in_2016_race
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2017, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 08, 2017, 04:33:17 PM
[

They weren't too enamoured with brazile on Democracy Now or maybe I mis-understood it.

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/11/6/headlines/donna_brazile_considered_swapping_biden_for_clinton_in_2016_race

Don't you dare :)

(http://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1474/58/1474580436773.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 08, 2017, 06:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2017, 11:30:31 AM
So has the right wing fantasy of a second US civil war started, the Fox News "Antifa Apocolypse"?

Not seeing any smoke on the horizon out my window here in NYC this morning. Times Square must still be there...

Youse boys are absolutely obsessed about Fox News, why not pick a different Conservative TV channel pick on................................................................. Oh wait!

Who talked about an 'Antifa apocylspe' Just wondering hi.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2017, 06:19:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2017, 06:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2017, 11:30:31 AM
So has the right wing fantasy of a second US civil war started, the Fox News "Antifa Apocolypse"?

Not seeing any smoke on the horizon out my window here in NYC this morning. Times Square must still be there...

Youse boys are absolutely obsessed about Fox News, why not pick a different Conservative TV channel pick on................................................................. Oh wait!

Who talked about an 'Antifa apocylspe' Just wondering hi.

Fox News did.

And the topic was discussed here last week in the lead up.

As expected, nothing happened. And certainly not the decapitations and new civil war the far right was fantasizing about in their search for victimhood. Although they did, for a day or so, try to pin the Texas atrocity on antifa.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2017, 06:44:14 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/11/08/the-paradise-papers-expose-trumps-fake-populism/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2017, 09:21:49 PM
Trump is dogshit for the GOP


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/us/politics/suburbs-revolt-trump-republicans-congress.html

RICHMOND, Va. — The American suburbs appear to be in revolt against President Trump after a muscular coalition of college-educated voters and racial and ethnic minorities on Tuesday dealt the Republican Party a thumping rejection and propelled a diverse class of Democrats into office.

From the tax-obsessed suburbs of New York City to high-tech neighborhoods outside Seattle to the sprawling, polyglot developments of Fairfax and Prince William County, Va., voters shunned Republicans up and down the ballot in off-year elections. Leaders in both parties said the elections amounted to an earsplitting alarm bell for Republicans ahead of the 2018 elections, when the party's grip on the House of Representatives may hinge on the socially moderate, multiethnic communities surrounding major cities.

"Voters are taking their anger out at the president, and the only way they can do that is by going after Republicans on the ballot," said Representative Charlie Dent, Republican of Pennsylvania. "If this isn't a wake-up call, I don't know what is."

The Democrats' gains were deep and broad, signaling profound alienation from the Republican Party among the sort of upscale moderates who were once a pillar of their coalition.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 08, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2017, 09:21:49 PM
Trump is dogshit for the GOP


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/us/politics/suburbs-revolt-trump-republicans-congress.html

RICHMOND, Va. — The American suburbs appear to be in revolt against President Trump after a muscular coalition of college-educated voters and racial and ethnic minorities on Tuesday dealt the Republican Party a thumping rejection and propelled a diverse class of Democrats into office.

From the tax-obsessed suburbs of New York City to high-tech neighborhoods outside Seattle to the sprawling, polyglot developments of Fairfax and Prince William County, Va., voters shunned Republicans up and down the ballot in off-year elections. Leaders in both parties said the elections amounted to an earsplitting alarm bell for Republicans ahead of the 2018 elections, when the party's grip on the House of Representatives may hinge on the socially moderate, multiethnic communities surrounding major cities.

"Voters are taking their anger out at the president, and the only way they can do that is by going after Republicans on the ballot," said Representative Charlie Dent, Republican of Pennsylvania. "If this isn't a wake-up call, I don't know what is."

The Democrats' gains were deep and broad, signaling profound alienation from the Republican Party among the sort of upscale moderates who were once a pillar of their coalition.

Democrats won the top office in New Jersey and Virginia last night. Democrat Ralph Northam defeated Ed Gillespie in Virginia and Democrat Phil Murphy beat Republican Kim Guadagno in the Garden State.

Gillespie was an milquetoast Repubican who refused to campaign with Republican President Donald Trump.
Guadagno was running in a deep blue state with a very unpopular Republican president.

** Republicans won four out of four US House seats.

The liberal media this morning says Democrats won because the American people want more illegal immigration.
The Chicago Tribune reported:

Both Republican gubernatorial nominees — former Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie in Virginia and Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno in New Jersey — ran with a version of Trump's nationalistic, often dark anti-illegal immigration message. And neither saw it pay off. Gillespie's use of the strategy was particularly jarring, given he is basically the very definition of the kind of establishment Republican who has eschewed that kind of approach.

For a time, it seemed that the strategy might be helping Gillespie close the gap, but it doesn't seem to have allowed him to close the gap much at all. And the idea that this is a way forward for the GOP in winning elections in swing states like Virginia was certainly dealt a setback.

Mid terms will be brilliant next year, neither party is fit to govern but I seriously think illegal immigration is the key to the liberals winning in a landslide next fall. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 08, 2017, 11:47:34 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2017, 09:21:49 PM
Trump is dogshit for the GOP


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/us/politics/suburbs-revolt-trump-republicans-congress.html

RICHMOND, Va. — The American suburbs appear to be in revolt against President Trump after a muscular coalition of college-educated voters and racial and ethnic minorities on Tuesday dealt the Republican Party a thumping rejection and propelled a diverse class of Democrats into office.

From the tax-obsessed suburbs of New York City to high-tech neighborhoods outside Seattle to the sprawling, polyglot developments of Fairfax and Prince William County, Va., voters shunned Republicans up and down the ballot in off-year elections. Leaders in both parties said the elections amounted to an earsplitting alarm bell for Republicans ahead of the 2018 elections, when the party's grip on the House of Representatives may hinge on the socially moderate, multiethnic communities surrounding major cities.

"Voters are taking their anger out at the president, and the only way they can do that is by going after Republicans on the ballot," said Representative Charlie Dent, Republican of Pennsylvania. "If this isn't a wake-up call, I don't know what is."

The Democrats' gains were deep and broad, signaling profound alienation from the Republican Party among the sort of upscale moderates who were once a pillar of their coalition.

Democrats won the top office in New Jersey and Virginia last night. Democrat Ralph Northam defeated Ed Gillespie in Virginia and Democrat Phil Murphy beat Republican Kim Guadagno in the Garden State.

Gillespie was an milquetoast Repubican who refused to campaign with Republican President Donald Trump.
Guadagno was running in a deep blue state with a very unpopular Republican president.

** Republicans won four out of four US House seats.

The liberal media this morning says Democrats won because the American people want more illegal immigration.
The Chicago Tribune reported:

Both Republican gubernatorial nominees — former Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie in Virginia and Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno in New Jersey — ran with a version of Trump's nationalistic, often dark anti-illegal immigration message. And neither saw it pay off. Gillespie's use of the strategy was particularly jarring, given he is basically the very definition of the kind of establishment Republican who has eschewed that kind of approach.

For a time, it seemed that the strategy might be helping Gillespie close the gap, but it doesn't seem to have allowed him to close the gap much at all. And the idea that this is a way forward for the GOP in winning elections in swing states like Virginia was certainly dealt a setback.

Mid terms will be brilliant next year, neither party is fit to govern but I seriously think illegal immigration is the key to the liberals winning in a landslide next fall. )

You should be using quote marks there, Stew.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/media-gop-lost-2-governor-races-deep-blue-states-americans-want-illegal-immigrants-yeah-run/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 09, 2017, 01:07:40 AM
Stews plagiarism aside, I wouldn't be whooping too much if I was a Democrat over that result last night. All this supposed backlash against Spurs and that's all you got?
Poor return, and a complete lack of leadership on the Dems side. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2017, 01:18:05 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 09, 2017, 01:07:40 AM
Stews plagiarism aside, I wouldn't be whooping too much if I was a Democrat over that result last night. All this supposed backlash against Spurs and that's all you got?
Poor return, and a complete lack of leadership on the Dems side.

I was thinking the same thing

Trump lost Virginia to Hillary, so it's not unsurprising Gillespie lost to the incumbent Democratic Lt. Governor

In NJ, outgoing governor Chris Christie had something like a 15% approval rating, and unsurprisingly his Lt Givernor lost to the Democrat

It's not like they won fvckin Texas or some other deep red state

Unless they get their act together they're going nowhere

On another note the Trump tax plan is probably the most fvckin stupid thing I have ever seen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gaaboardmod3 on November 09, 2017, 09:25:59 AM
Once again, personal abuse has gotten out of hand on this thread. I will lock it if you cannot control yourselves. I have handed out a temporary ban to allow for a cooling off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2017, 10:40:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2017, 01:18:05 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 09, 2017, 01:07:40 AM
Stews plagiarism aside, I wouldn't be whooping too much if I was a Democrat over that result last night. All this supposed backlash against Spurs and that's all you got?
Poor return, and a complete lack of leadership on the Dems side.

I was thinking the same thing

Trump lost Virginia to Hillary, so it's not unsurprising Gillespie lost to the incumbent Democratic Lt. Governor

In NJ, outgoing governor Chris Christie had something like a 15% approval rating, and unsurprisingly his Lt Givernor lost to the Democrat

It's not like they won fvckin Texas or some other deep red state

Unless they get their act together they're going nowhere

On another note the Trump tax plan is probably the most fvckin stupid thing I have ever seen

I would agree.

Just as I wasn't too upset when the Dems lost those red House seats earlier in the year, when certain people on here were doing a little gloating.

And the mid-terms are a long way off. A lot can happen in a month in politics, never mind a year, especially with Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2017, 12:02:09 PM
It's early days yet for Trump damage at the polls. The GOP is in a form of slow civil war. Steve Bannon is organising Trump loyalists to stand against moderate Republicans and purge the party for next year. They will parrot whatever Adelson and Co want and they will hoover up the rural vote but you need more than that to get 50%. The GOP is in a tailspin. Trump is just a symptom. The crisis has been building up for years . At its core is the tension between the demands of parasitical donors and the basic needs of poor and middle class  voters. The same thing is happening to the Tories and you can see it in the Daily Telegraph which advocates policies that are not in the interest of its readers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2017, 03:31:53 PM
On this day...
1 Year ago today against the odds Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton to become the president of the United States of America.

Best president ever.

(https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.cdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F151025111221-trump-thumbs-up-1021-large-169.jpg&hash=bd067d9195f24ee51a652a25554ee965)

Even better - he shut all these smug focks up including the Kenyan lad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahkMA6JPOHU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZpTzTL9cU


hahahahahaha...oh my sides!! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2017, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2017, 03:31:53 PM
On this day...
1 Year ago today against the odds Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton to become the president of the United States of America.

Best president ever.

(https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.cdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F151025111221-trump-thumbs-up-1021-large-169.jpg&hash=bd067d9195f24ee51a652a25554ee965)

Even better - he shut all these smug focks up including the Kenyan lad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahkMA6JPOHU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZpTzTL9cU


hahahahahaha...oh my sides!! :)
Lincoln was a real Republican
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2017, 06:05:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2017, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 09, 2017, 03:31:53 PM
On this day...
1 Year ago today against the odds Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton to become the president of the United States of America.

Best president ever.

(https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.cdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F151025111221-trump-thumbs-up-1021-large-169.jpg&hash=bd067d9195f24ee51a652a25554ee965)

Even better - he shut all these smug focks up including the Kenyan lad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahkMA6JPOHU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZpTzTL9cU


hahahahahaha...oh my sides!! :)
Lincoln was a real Republican
The greatest American  president.

Teddy Roosevelt another great Republican President and American.

Both must be rolling in their graves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2017, 08:45:21 PM
Trump isn't qualified to lick the boots of either of the Roosevelts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 09, 2017, 09:00:31 PM
(https://static.straitstimes.com.sg/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/articles/2017/01/21/41239320_-_21_01_2017_-_us-president-donald-trump-attends-a-salute-to-our-armed-services.jpg?itok=DfNQDJZ9)

Loser. Sad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2017, 09:03:44 PM
I see some big news breaking about Judge Roy Moore.....why am I not surprised-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2017, 09:03:44 PM
I see some big news breaking about Judge Roy Moore.....why am I not surprised-lol

He's a man of god first, constitution second... apparently.

Louis CK too.

They're dropping by the hour.

I would say Moore is only the first of the politicians (excluding Trump and Clinton and so on!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2017, 09:52:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2017, 09:03:44 PM
I see some big news breaking about Judge Roy Moore.....why am I not surprised-lol

He's a man of god first, constitution second... apparently.

Louis CK too.

They're dropping by the hour.

I would say Moore is only the first of the politicians (excluding Trump and Clinton and so on!)

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/arts/television/louis-ck-sexual-misconduct.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 09, 2017, 11:32:56 PM
If only Chuck Schumer wasn't the minority lead the Dems may actually make some headway.

Spurs new tax plan looks has already caused a serious problem for Reps in high tax states. Looks like turkeys voting for Christmas again.

Spurs telling their candidate he lost because "he didn't embrace me," probably not helping. Sometime I wonder if he wants to be one and done. Little Wilbur Ross just got exposed as a liar, Spurs can't be far behind about his net worth.

Judge Moore could be in serious bother if there is actually is a problem with his verdicts, Never mind his election as it appears there is no way to remove him from the ballot.

And yet, the rudderless Dems have no message
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 10, 2017, 12:09:09 AM
Spurs?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 10, 2017, 02:04:31 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/22/mccain-hits-trump-where-it-hurts-attacking-bone-spur-deferments-in-vietnam/
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/22/mccain-hits-trump-where-it-hurts-attacking-bone-spur-deferments-in-vietnam/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2017, 07:58:51 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 10, 2017, 02:04:31 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/22/mccain-hits-trump-where-it-hurts-attacking-bone-spur-deferments-in-vietnam/
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/22/mccain-hits-trump-where-it-hurts-attacking-bone-spur-deferments-in-vietnam/)
Mueller also fought in Vietnam
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2017, 10:17:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 10, 2017, 02:04:31 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/22/mccain-hits-trump-where-it-hurts-attacking-bone-spur-deferments-in-vietnam/
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/22/mccain-hits-trump-where-it-hurts-attacking-bone-spur-deferments-in-vietnam/)

Aah... clever! ;D

I thought you were having autocorrect issues or something!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 10, 2017, 11:07:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2017, 09:03:44 PM
I see some big news breaking about Judge Roy Moore.....why am I not surprised-lol

He's a man of god first, constitution second... apparently.

Louis CK too.

They're dropping by the hour.

I would say Moore is only the first of the politicians (excluding Trump and Clinton and so on!)

This is quite an astounding defence of Moore by the state Auditor and fellow republican, Jim Zeigler who obviously is another religious nut job;

And finally, the piece de resistance:

"Take the Bible — Zachariah and Elizabeth, for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist," Ziegler says, choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. "Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus."

"There's just nothing immoral or illegal here," Ziegler concluded. "Maybe just a little bit unusual."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2017, 11:43:03 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 10, 2017, 11:07:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2017, 09:03:44 PM
I see some big news breaking about Judge Roy Moore.....why am I not surprised-lol

He's a man of god first, constitution second... apparently.

Louis CK too.

They're dropping by the hour.

I would say Moore is only the first of the politicians (excluding Trump and Clinton and so on!)

This is quite an astounding defence of Moore by the state Auditor and fellow republican, Jim Zeigler who obviously is another religious nut job;

And finally, the piece de resistance:

"Take the Bible — Zachariah and Elizabeth, for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist," Ziegler says, choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. "Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus."

"There's just nothing immoral or illegal here," Ziegler concluded. "Maybe just a little bit unusual."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9)

Yep, they'll still vote for him. Bible has been used to justify lots of shit, especially in the US South.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 11, 2017, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2017, 11:43:03 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 10, 2017, 11:07:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2017, 09:03:44 PM
I see some big news breaking about Judge Roy Moore.....why am I not surprised-lol

He's a man of god first, constitution second... apparently.

Louis CK too.

They're dropping by the hour.

I would say Moore is only the first of the politicians (excluding Trump and Clinton and so on!)

This is quite an astounding defence of Moore by the state Auditor and fellow republican, Jim Zeigler who obviously is another religious nut job;

And finally, the piece de resistance:

"Take the Bible — Zachariah and Elizabeth, for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist," Ziegler says, choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. "Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus."

"There's just nothing immoral or illegal here," Ziegler concluded. "Maybe just a little bit unusual."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9)

Yep, they'll still vote for him. Bible has been used to justify lots of shit, especially in the US South.

Yes, Jesus is the reason Trump won. :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 11, 2017, 10:15:12 PM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2017, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2017, 11:43:03 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 10, 2017, 11:07:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2017, 09:03:44 PM
I see some big news breaking about Judge Roy Moore.....why am I not surprised-lol

He's a man of god first, constitution second... apparently.

Louis CK too.

They're dropping by the hour.

I would say Moore is only the first of the politicians (excluding Trump and Clinton and so on!)

This is quite an astounding defence of Moore by the state Auditor and fellow republican, Jim Zeigler who obviously is another religious nut job;

And finally, the piece de resistance:

"Take the Bible — Zachariah and Elizabeth, for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist," Ziegler says, choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. "Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus."

"There's just nothing immoral or illegal here," Ziegler concluded. "Maybe just a little bit unusual."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9)

Yep, they'll still vote for him. Bible has been used to justify lots of shit, especially in the US South.

Yes, Jesus is the reason Trump won. :-[

Well he is responsible for everything is he not?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 12, 2017, 10:42:17 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 11, 2017, 10:15:12 PM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2017, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2017, 11:43:03 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 10, 2017, 11:07:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2017, 09:03:44 PM
I see some big news breaking about Judge Roy Moore.....why am I not surprised-lol

He's a man of god first, constitution second... apparently.

Louis CK too.

They're dropping by the hour.

I would say Moore is only the first of the politicians (excluding Trump and Clinton and so on!)

This is quite an astounding defence of Moore by the state Auditor and fellow republican, Jim Zeigler who obviously is another religious nut job;

And finally, the piece de resistance:

"Take the Bible — Zachariah and Elizabeth, for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist," Ziegler says, choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. "Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus."

"There's just nothing immoral or illegal here," Ziegler concluded. "Maybe just a little bit unusual."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/09/this-defense-of-roy-moore-is-amazingly-bad-from-start-to-finish/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8347ab0223b9)

Yep, they'll still vote for him. Bible has been used to justify lots of shit, especially in the US South.

Yes, Jesus is the reason Trump won. :-[

Well he is responsible for everything is he not?

In fairness etc.
that makes him responsible for Clinton, corruption in the democratic party and Obamas defecit/givimg up multiples terrorists for the boul traitor Bowe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 16, 2017, 03:11:56 PM
Just going to prove they are getting rid of anything Obama ever introduced

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/15/politics/elephant-trophies-us-restrictions-zimbabwe-zambia/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 16, 2017, 03:39:39 PM
Story on Al Franken out now

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/ (http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2017, 04:07:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 16, 2017, 03:39:39 PM
Story on Al Franken out now

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/ (http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/)

Dirtbag. Just imagine if it was your wife or daughter he was groping and trying to mess around with?

As I said on here last week, Moore is just the beginning when it comes to politicians.

Both sides are going to be very uncomfortable as the stories come out, even though the temptation will be, as always, to make excuses in the light of the bigger picture of political control and whataboutery.

Hopefully a watershed moment for men who think they can behave this way and women who feel they have to put up with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 16, 2017, 04:11:39 PM
His statement is shit as well - he has to walk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2017, 04:16:28 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/16/joseph-stiglitz-trump-fascist-globalisation-bernie-sanders


America is led by a man Stiglitz says should not be in the White House. "He is not fit to be president. He does not have an understanding of the issues, the political process. He is used to making one-time deals. You can cheat your contractors when you buy a real estate property and fix it up. Reputation doesn't matter. For the president of the United States reputation does matter. The reputation of the United States does matter. We are dealing with countries all over the world. They want to know if your word is good. Trump's word is not good."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: haranguerer on November 16, 2017, 04:16:44 PM
Hold on, that photo is the groping she refers to? It doesn't look like he is groping her to me.

Obviously a dirtbag forcing him to kiss her, but she should have left it at that - it seems like to strengthen her story she clutched at a straw and it does it no favours....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2017, 04:53:31 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 16, 2017, 04:16:44 PM
Hold on, that photo is the groping she refers to? It doesn't look like he is groping her to me.

Obviously a dirtbag forcing him to kiss her, but she should have left it at that - it seems like to strengthen her story she clutched at a straw and it does it no favours....

Come on, whether he got a handful or not through the flak jacket is irrelevant. Even if he is only simulating, she is still asleep and he is taking liberties.  And he is not a teenager or college student who doesn't know better - he is 55 years old in that photo! Would he stand for someone doing it to his daughter (assuming he has one) or his wife?

Not quite Roy Moore depth of sleaze (which isn't saying much, admittedly), but Franken, unfortunately for him (and possibly the Democrats) has questions to answer given the rubicon which has been crossed over the past couple of months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2017, 05:57:37 PM
Good facebook post from Al Franken on October 10 this year in response to former Fox News host Gretchen Carlson's struggles with sexual harassment.

https://www.facebook.com/senatoralfranken/posts/1517209188364958 (https://www.facebook.com/senatoralfranken/posts/1517209188364958)

He says of Weinstein that "while his behavior was appalling, it's far too common".

Will he do the right thing here now that he himself has been exposed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 16, 2017, 06:18:42 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOxZxIeXkAAKxVX.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 16, 2017, 10:50:20 PM
What's Joe Biden up to here?  :o

(https://twitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/biden_grope.jpg)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 16, 2017, 10:56:34 PM
Not forgetting the images of Obama about to take advantage of a doe-eyed youngster

(http://wpmedia.nationalpost.com/2016/11/hug.jpg?w=300&quality=60&strip=all)

Those democrats are all at it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 17, 2017, 01:37:29 AM
Republicans are at it too FakeNewsFox - they are as bad as each other.

http://www.dispatch.com/news/20171115/inappropriate-behavior-with-man-in-his-office-led-to-ohio-lawmakers-ouster

Didn't see your opinions on Roy Moore either. What do you make of those?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 17, 2017, 05:35:46 AM
I admire the stones on president Spurs calling out Al franken on Twitter. I am somewhat concerned that his minder is letting him do it...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TheOptimist on November 17, 2017, 08:12:34 AM
Trying to point fingers at democrats/republicans over scandals like this is ridiculous. It is a human flaw and not limited to any one side or party. As is fraud, corruption and greed. If a politician is guilty they are not fit for office. If politics should be debated it is the policies and their effects that should be discussed. Not which party are the biggest perverts or fraudsters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2017, 12:01:16 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 17, 2017, 05:35:46 AM
I admire the stones on president Spurs calling out Al franken on Twitter. I am somewhat concerned that his minder is letting him do it...

Yeah, maybe Al should have tried to "grab 'em by the pussy".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 17, 2017, 10:38:47 PM
Remember when Bernie Sanders was mocked because we couldn't afford $47 billion for college tuition?

"The bill, which is the fiscal 2018 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), not only exceeds President Donald Trump's original defense request by nearly $100 billion, but also exceeds the spending cap on defense funding set by the Budget Control Act by nearly $150 billion."

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/453740/house-defense-spending-bill-passes-overwhelmingly (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/453740/house-defense-spending-bill-passes-overwhelmingly)

This is textbook Republican politics. Gripe about the national debt and big government spending when in opposition, then revert to the "deficits don't matter" doctrine and spend like drunken sailors as soon as you get into power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 18, 2017, 12:27:35 AM
(https://static.straitstimes.com.sg/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/articles/2017/01/21/41239320_-_21_01_2017_-_us-president-donald-trump-attends-a-salute-to-our-armed-services.jpg?itok=DfNQDJZ9)

Oh change the record for christs sake.

Those tuition fees would only be wasted on safe spaces and stupid courses like advanced philosophies of hip-hop singers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2017, 05:40:02 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2017, 12:27:35 AM
(https://static.straitstimes.com.sg/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/articles/2017/01/21/41239320_-_21_01_2017_-_us-president-donald-trump-attends-a-salute-to-our-armed-services.jpg?itok=DfNQDJZ9)

Oh change the record for christs sake.

Those tuition fees would only be wasted on safe spaces and stupid courses like advanced philosophies of hip-hop singers.
Foxy

Demand is a business issue. Very Republican. Go back to your handlers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 18, 2017, 05:29:49 PM
Quote

Oh change the record for christs sake.

Those tuition fees would only be wasted on safe spaces and stupid courses like advanced philosophies of hip-hop singers.

I almost took the bait Foxy.

I am very curious as to how the right wing media are not calling out both tax bills for their complete contradiction of the fundamentals of Republican goals.

Adding to the deficit, hitting the middle class with tax increases, when did that become a win?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 21, 2017, 08:52:59 PM
To the shock of no-one Trump comes out in support of Roy Moore

QuoteBREAKING. Trump On Roy Moore race— "we don't need a liberal democrat in that seat."

QuoteTrump: "Roy Moore denies it— that's all I can say."

Quote"He denies it. He totally denies it," Trump on Roy Moore.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 21, 2017, 09:28:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 21, 2017, 08:52:59 PM
To the shock of no-one Trump comes out in support of Roy Moore

QuoteBREAKING. Trump On Roy Moore race— "we don't need a liberal democrat in that seat."

QuoteTrump: "Roy Moore denies it— that's all I can say."

Quote"He denies it. He totally denies it," Trump on Roy Moore.

I heard it live....fvckin painful.

But why all of a sudden the change in course?

Hi Does he know something we don't know?

Don't be surprised if there's some big development here in the next few days
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2017, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 21, 2017, 09:28:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 21, 2017, 08:52:59 PM
To the shock of no-one Trump comes out in support of Roy Moore

QuoteBREAKING. Trump On Roy Moore race— "we don't need a liberal democrat in that seat."

QuoteTrump: "Roy Moore denies it— that's all I can say."

Quote"He denies it. He totally denies it," Trump on Roy Moore.

I heard it live....fvckin painful.

But why all of a sudden the change in course?

Hi Does he know something we don't know?

Don't be surprised if there's some big development here in the next few days

What, like a poll saying Moore is in big trouble? Or do you really think that all eight or nine women are going to be discredited? (we're still waiting on Trump's suit against his own 15 accusers). Is this the Trump playing 3-D chess thing again? ;D

Trump just doesn't think what Moore allegedly did is that big a deal and he isn't going to be told otherwise by any fake news media OR Mitch McConnell. He is telling us that a mainstream Democratic senator is worse than a hypocritical supposed religious zealot who stands accused of assaulting and harrassing teenagers, some as young as 14, while he was in his 30s.

Its good to know though that a mere denial of guilt is all Trump needs to give the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 22, 2017, 01:49:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2017, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 21, 2017, 09:28:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 21, 2017, 08:52:59 PM
To the shock of no-one Trump comes out in support of Roy Moore

QuoteBREAKING. Trump On Roy Moore race— "we don't need a liberal democrat in that seat."

QuoteTrump: "Roy Moore denies it— that's all I can say."

Quote"He denies it. He totally denies it," Trump on Roy Moore.

I heard it live....fvckin painful.

But why all of a sudden the change in course?

Hi Does he know something we don't know?

Don't be surprised if there's some big development here in the next few days

What, like a poll saying Moore is in big trouble? Or do you really think that all eight or nine women are going to be discredited? (we're still waiting on Trump's suit against his own 15 accusers). Is this the Trump playing 3-D chess thing again? ;D

Trump just doesn't think what Moore allegedly did is that big a deal and he isn't going to be told otherwise by any fake news media OR Mitch McConnell. He is telling us that a mainstream Democratic senator is worse than a hypocritical supposed religious zealot who stands accused of assaulting and harrassing teenagers, some as young as 14, while he was in his 30s.

Its good to know though that a mere denial of guilt is all Trump needs to give the benefit of the doubt.

I might be completely wrong, but I just got a feeling this afternoon that between Trumps comments and those from the Moore Camp there seemed to be  something up.....their tone has changed dramatically in the last few days


They dont need to discredit all 9 accusers.....they only need to discredit one, and then that casts a shadow over the other 8.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2017, 02:00:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 22, 2017, 01:49:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2017, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 21, 2017, 09:28:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 21, 2017, 08:52:59 PM
To the shock of no-one Trump comes out in support of Roy Moore

QuoteBREAKING. Trump On Roy Moore race— "we don't need a liberal democrat in that seat."

QuoteTrump: "Roy Moore denies it— that's all I can say."

Quote"He denies it. He totally denies it," Trump on Roy Moore.

I heard it live....fvckin painful.

But why all of a sudden the change in course?

Hi Does he know something we don't know?

Don't be surprised if there's some big development here in the next few days

What, like a poll saying Moore is in big trouble? Or do you really think that all eight or nine women are going to be discredited? (we're still waiting on Trump's suit against his own 15 accusers). Is this the Trump playing 3-D chess thing again? ;D

Trump just doesn't think what Moore allegedly did is that big a deal and he isn't going to be told otherwise by any fake news media OR Mitch McConnell. He is telling us that a mainstream Democratic senator is worse than a hypocritical supposed religious zealot who stands accused of assaulting and harrassing teenagers, some as young as 14, while he was in his 30s.

Its good to know though that a mere denial of guilt is all Trump needs to give the benefit of the doubt.

I might be completely wrong, but I just got a feeling this afternoon that between Trumps comments and those from the Moore Camp there seemed to be  something up.....their tone has changed dramatically in the last few days


They dont need to discredit all 9 accusers.....they only need to discredit one, and then that casts a shadow over the other 8.

The only one they've been addressing is the school yearbook one.

They haven't touched the really damaging one, the 14 year old.

And on the tone thing, the only that's changed is that Moore is hiding from the media, while the Alabama GOP has rowed in in force behind him.

And anyone who dismisses the whole lot of the accusers due to some school yearbook signature thing is not really interested in the truth, only rationalization of their decision to vote for a hypocritical, dangerous, fiend for purely political reasons.

They're obviously free to put politics above all else (and we're all guilty of hypocrisy and deals with the devil at times when it comes to politics), but they should not be allowed to escape the logic of their position.

Basically, I don't ever want to hear the GOP crow about values and morals again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 22, 2017, 02:53:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2017, 02:00:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 22, 2017, 01:49:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2017, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 21, 2017, 09:28:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 21, 2017, 08:52:59 PM
To the shock of no-one Trump comes out in support of Roy Moore

QuoteBREAKING. Trump On Roy Moore race— "we don't need a liberal democrat in that seat."

QuoteTrump: "Roy Moore denies it— that's all I can say."

Quote"He denies it. He totally denies it," Trump on Roy Moore.

I heard it live....fvckin painful.

But why all of a sudden the change in course?

Hi Does he know something we don't know?

Don't be surprised if there's some big development here in the next few days

What, like a poll saying Moore is in big trouble? Or do you really think that all eight or nine women are going to be discredited? (we're still waiting on Trump's suit against his own 15 accusers). Is this the Trump playing 3-D chess thing again? ;D

Trump just doesn't think what Moore allegedly did is that big a deal and he isn't going to be told otherwise by any fake news media OR Mitch McConnell. He is telling us that a mainstream Democratic senator is worse than a hypocritical supposed religious zealot who stands accused of assaulting and harrassing teenagers, some as young as 14, while he was in his 30s.

Its good to know though that a mere denial of guilt is all Trump needs to give the benefit of the doubt.

I might be completely wrong, but I just got a feeling this afternoon that between Trumps comments and those from the Moore Camp there seemed to be  something up.....their tone has changed dramatically in the last few days


They dont need to discredit all 9 accusers.....they only need to discredit one, and then that casts a shadow over the other 8.

The only one they've been addressing is the school yearbook one.

They haven't touched the really damaging one, the 14 year old.

And on the tone thing, the only that's changed is that Moore is hiding from the media, while the Alabama GOP has rowed in in force behind him.

And anyone who dismisses the whole lot of the accusers due to some school yearbook signature thing is not really interested in the truth, only rationalization of their decision to vote for a hypocritical, dangerous, fiend for purely political reasons.

They're obviously free to put politics above all else (and we're all guilty of hypocrisy and deals with the devil at times when it comes to politics), but they should not be allowed to escape the logic of their position.

Basically, I don't ever want to hear the GOP crow about values and morals again.

And I dont ever want to hear a Democrat crow about the "War on Women" again

They are reaping what they sowed with Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton

If the allegations against Al Franken are true.....he has to go too


Were in for a very interesting 3 weeks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2017, 11:47:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 22, 2017, 02:53:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2017, 02:00:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 22, 2017, 01:49:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2017, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 21, 2017, 09:28:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 21, 2017, 08:52:59 PM
To the shock of no-one Trump comes out in support of Roy Moore

QuoteBREAKING. Trump On Roy Moore race— "we don't need a liberal democrat in that seat."

QuoteTrump: "Roy Moore denies it— that's all I can say."

Quote"He denies it. He totally denies it," Trump on Roy Moore.

I heard it live....fvckin painful.

But why all of a sudden the change in course?

Hi Does he know something we don't know?

Don't be surprised if there's some big development here in the next few days

What, like a poll saying Moore is in big trouble? Or do you really think that all eight or nine women are going to be discredited? (we're still waiting on Trump's suit against his own 15 accusers). Is this the Trump playing 3-D chess thing again? ;D

Trump just doesn't think what Moore allegedly did is that big a deal and he isn't going to be told otherwise by any fake news media OR Mitch McConnell. He is telling us that a mainstream Democratic senator is worse than a hypocritical supposed religious zealot who stands accused of assaulting and harrassing teenagers, some as young as 14, while he was in his 30s.

Its good to know though that a mere denial of guilt is all Trump needs to give the benefit of the doubt.

I might be completely wrong, but I just got a feeling this afternoon that between Trumps comments and those from the Moore Camp there seemed to be  something up.....their tone has changed dramatically in the last few days


They dont need to discredit all 9 accusers.....they only need to discredit one, and then that casts a shadow over the other 8.

The only one they've been addressing is the school yearbook one.

They haven't touched the really damaging one, the 14 year old.

And on the tone thing, the only that's changed is that Moore is hiding from the media, while the Alabama GOP has rowed in in force behind him.

And anyone who dismisses the whole lot of the accusers due to some school yearbook signature thing is not really interested in the truth, only rationalization of their decision to vote for a hypocritical, dangerous, fiend for purely political reasons.

They're obviously free to put politics above all else (and we're all guilty of hypocrisy and deals with the devil at times when it comes to politics), but they should not be allowed to escape the logic of their position.

Basically, I don't ever want to hear the GOP crow about values and morals again.

And I dont ever want to hear a Democrat crow about the "War on Women" again

They are reaping what they sowed with Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton

If the allegations against Al Franken are true.....he has to go too


Were in for a very interesting 3 weeks

That is fair.

Doesn't mean the Dems can't fight for Planned Parenthood and so on or pay issues.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
I see Donnie dickhead focusing on the big issues this morning - that being Lavar Ball
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2017, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
I see Donnie d**khead focusing on the big issues this morning - that being Lavar Ball

Grist for the mill... his base will love it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 02:52:00 PM
And can't forget the very important round of golf

QuotePer pool, Trump has arrived at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach at 9:26AM.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2017, 04:25:44 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 02:52:00 PM
And can't forget the very important round of golf

QuotePer pool, Trump has arrived at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach at 9:26AM.

Couldn't give a shite about the golf per se. Any man, particularly one in a high pressure job, needs a break.

It's the utter hypocrisy of Trump himself and all those conservatives who whined and cried for all those years about Obama's golf and vacations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 22, 2017, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2017, 04:25:44 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 02:52:00 PM
And can't forget the very important round of golf

QuotePer pool, Trump has arrived at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach at 9:26AM.

Couldn't give a shite about the golf per se. Any man, particularly one in a high pressure job, needs a break.

It's the utter hypocrisy of Trump himself and all those conservatives who whined and cried for all those years about Obama's golf and vacations.

There's golf, and there's golf.  The man seems to be on a golf course at least 3 or 4 days a week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 22, 2017, 11:40:25 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Aye and you would have voted for Bernie  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:57:05 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 22, 2017, 11:40:25 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Aye and you would have voted for Bernie  ;D

Only because Clinton should be in prison and Trump was never a Republican and was never going to get much done given the fact he was almost as unpopular as Clinton!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Did I say something that wasn't correct?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 23, 2017, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Did I say something that wasn't correct?

I would have no idea because Trump playing golf does not matter one iotato me, what should matter to you is your adopted country giving millions of taxpayer dollars to terrorists, not how much time a foreign leader spends playing golf!

Obama did the same thing but not one word from you about that Hurl.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on November 23, 2017, 12:22:30 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2017, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Did I say something that wasn't correct?

I would have no idea because Trump playing golf does not matter one iotato me, what should matter to you is your adopted country giving millions of taxpayer dollars to terrorists, not how much time a foreign leader spends playing golf!

Obama did the same thing but not one word from you about that Hurl.

Israel?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 01:08:44 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2017, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Did I say something that wasn't correct?

I would have no idea because Trump playing golf does not matter one iotato me, what should matter to you is your adopted country giving millions of taxpayer dollars to terrorists, not how much time a foreign leader spends playing golf!

Obama did the same thing but not one word from you about that Hurl.

Why should it matter to you what a foreign leader and country does?  Sure your country selling arms to terrorist nations as well
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 23, 2017, 02:45:18 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2017, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Did I say something that wasn't correct?

I would have no idea because Trump playing golf does not matter one iotato me, what should matter to you is your adopted country giving millions of taxpayer dollars to terrorists, not how much time a foreign leader spends playing golf!

Obama did the same thing but not one word from you about that Hurl.

Did Obama use vacations and golf as a political football during the campaign like Trump did? Did Obama criticize his predecessor, claiming that he " wouldn't have time for golf" once elected? Did Obama spent the years before he was elected constantly mocking (dozens of tweets) the sitting president for playing golf while X problem existed? Yet 10 months in, Trump and his admin are on target to far exceed anything that occurred under Obama with respect to golf or flights and trips at taxpayer expense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 09:28:24 PM
Sounds like someone has flipped  :o

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/us/politics/flynn-mueller-russia-trump.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/us/politics/flynn-mueller-russia-trump.html)

QuoteWASHINGTON — Lawyers for Michael T. Flynn, President Trump's former national security adviser, notified the president's legal team in recent days that they could no longer discuss the special counsel's investigation, according to four people involved in the case, an indication that Mr. Flynn is cooperating with prosecutors or negotiating such a deal.

Mr. Flynn's lawyers had been sharing information with Mr. Trump's lawyers about the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, who is examining whether anyone around Mr. Trump was involved in Russian efforts to undermine Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.

That agreement has been terminated, the four people said. Defense lawyers frequently share information during investigations, but they must stop when doing so would pose a conflict of interest. It is unethical for lawyers to work together when one client is cooperating with prosecutors and another is still under investigation.

The notification alone does not prove that Mr. Flynn is cooperating with Mr. Mueller. Some lawyers withdraw from information-sharing arrangements as soon as they begin negotiating with prosecutors. And such negotiations sometimes fall apart.

Still, the notification led Mr. Trump's lawyers to believe that Mr. Flynn — who, along with his son, is seen as having significant criminal exposure — has, at the least, begun discussions with Mr. Mueller about cooperating.

Lawyers for Mr. Flynn and Mr. Trump declined to comment. The four people briefed on the matter spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 24, 2017, 06:58:34 AM
Stew???

Fox???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 24, 2017, 09:52:14 AM
Worth remembering that Flynn is currently being investigated not just for forgetting to sign some forms declaring his interests, but as acting as a foreign agent, peddling influence, and organising the kidnapping and illegal repatriation of a foreign national seeking asylum, at the request of the country he was seeking asylum from.

He'd want to have some pretty useful information for Mueller to get off those charges. The thicks plotten.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2017, 01:09:02 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:57:05 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 22, 2017, 11:40:25 PM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Aye and you would have voted for Bernie  ;D

Only because Clinton should be in prison and Trump was never a Republican and was never going to get much done given the fact he was almost as unpopular as Clinton!

Trump is now THE Republican.

It's his party now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 24, 2017, 05:01:59 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

78th time today with Tiger and Dustin Johnson.

Just incase this doesn't appear to register, that is a shit ton of golf. At 4-6 hours per round (not really including travel time or meals pre/post) it is a considerable amount of time. Compounded by the commentary and agenda in his presidential race directed at Obama and how he would not have time to play golf - it continues to show this man is a charlatan and he has no agenda for the American people, other than his own.

To break even at my golf course on the yearly cart fee as opposed to paying each time you go out - you have to play 62 rounds of golf per year to make it worth while. 62 rounds is a lot of golf for the average person holding down a career and most of us don't hit the value of the annual cart pass. 78 IS INCREDIBLE for arguably the most important person in the most important job in America. Rounds up to 1.7 rounds per week this year through 47 weeks. Beat that, Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 24, 2017, 05:03:19 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 24, 2017, 05:01:59 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

78th time today with Tiger and Dustin Johnson.

Just incase this doesn't appear to register, that is a shit ton of golf. At 4-6 hours per round (not really including travel time or meals pre/post) it is a considerable amount of time. Compounded by the commentary and agenda in his presidential race directed at Obama and how he would not have time to play golf - it continues to show this man is a charlatan and he has no agenda for the American people, other than his own.

To break even at my golf course on the yearly cart fee as opposed to paying each time you go out - you have to play 62 rounds of golf per year to make it worth while. 62 rounds is a lot of golf for the average person holding down a career and most of us don't hit the value of the annual cart pass. 78 IS INCREDIBLE for arguably the most important person in the most important job in America. Rounds up to 1.7 rounds per week this year through 47 weeks. Beat that, Obama.

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote@realDonaldTrump  14 Oct 2014

We pay for Obama's travel so he can fundraise millions so Democrats can run on lies. Then we pay for his golf.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPZ9BgeXUAAV_6m.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 24, 2017, 05:05:13 PM
Can't. Headed out for round 55. :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 24, 2017, 05:11:47 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 24, 2017, 05:05:13 PM
Can't. Headed out for round 55. :D

Who do you think you are?  >:(

The President of the United States?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:28:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2017, 02:45:18 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2017, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Did I say something that wasn't correct?

I would have no idea because Trump playing golf does not matter one iotato me, what should matter to you is your adopted country giving millions of taxpayer dollars to terrorists, not how much time a foreign leader spends playing golf!

Obama did the same thing but not one word from you about that Hurl.

Did Obama use vacations and golf as a political football during the campaign like Trump did? Did Obama criticize his predecessor, claiming that he " wouldn't have time for golf" once elected? Did Obama spent the years before he was elected constantly mocking (dozens of tweets) the sitting president for playing golf while X problem existed? Yet 10 months in, Trump and his admin are on target to far exceed anything that occurred under Obama with respect to golf or flights and trips at taxpayer expense.
Trump.is a fraud. He lambasted Obama for golfing. He does more. He attacked Al Franken over how he treated a woman. Grab them by the pussy. He told voters only he could fix the US. He has done nothing . Hopefully he will break the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2017, 09:29:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:28:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2017, 02:45:18 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2017, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Did I say something that wasn't correct?

I would have no idea because Trump playing golf does not matter one iotato me, what should matter to you is your adopted country giving millions of taxpayer dollars to terrorists, not how much time a foreign leader spends playing golf!

Obama did the same thing but not one word from you about that Hurl.

Did Obama use vacations and golf as a political football during the campaign like Trump did? Did Obama criticize his predecessor, claiming that he " wouldn't have time for golf" once elected? Did Obama spent the years before he was elected constantly mocking (dozens of tweets) the sitting president for playing golf while X problem existed? Yet 10 months in, Trump and his admin are on target to far exceed anything that occurred under Obama with respect to golf or flights and trips at taxpayer expense.
Trump.is a fraud. He lambasted Obama for golfing. He does more. He attacked Al Franken over how he treated a woman. Grab them by the pussy. He told voters only he could fix the US. He has done nothing . Hopefully he will break the GOP.

If you think one party rule is beneficial for anyone, take a look at whats happening in IL or CT.  Every Democracy needs a healthy opposition
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 25, 2017, 09:15:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:28:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2017, 02:45:18 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2017, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Did I say something that wasn't correct?

I would have no idea because Trump playing golf does not matter one iotato me, what should matter to you is your adopted country giving millions of taxpayer dollars to terrorists, not how much time a foreign leader spends playing golf!

Obama did the same thing but not one word from you about that Hurl.

Did Obama use vacations and golf as a political football during the campaign like Trump did? Did Obama criticize his predecessor, claiming that he " wouldn't have time for golf" once elected? Did Obama spent the years before he was elected constantly mocking (dozens of tweets) the sitting president for playing golf while X problem existed? Yet 10 months in, Trump and his admin are on target to far exceed anything that occurred under Obama with respect to golf or flights and trips at taxpayer expense.
Trump.is a fraud. He lambasted Obama for golfing. He does more. He attacked Al Franken over how he treated a woman. Grab them by the pussy. He told voters only he could fix the US. He has done nothing . Hopefully he will break the GOP.

May as well hi because Clinton and her posse broke the democrats, maybe if the GOP goes the yanks will realise both partys are absolutely useless and a centralist party will emerge and grow.

Trump is brutal but I do not lay the fact he is getting less done at his door, when the GOP and the democrats are fighting you at every turn you are going to lose!

As bad as he is, and he is bad, Clinton would have been so much worse and all you poor petals hate the fact that your hateful leader got her arse handed to her in the last election, yet you simply blame Trump for your ills and at absolutely no point do you look to your own as to why you lost, please please please keep this up, you are as deluded as any liberals I have ever seen and I kind of dig it! :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:26:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2017, 09:29:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:28:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 23, 2017, 02:45:18 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2017, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
77th time this year

Get a life FFS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Did I say something that wasn't correct?

I would have no idea because Trump playing golf does not matter one iotato me, what should matter to you is your adopted country giving millions of taxpayer dollars to terrorists, not how much time a foreign leader spends playing golf!

Obama did the same thing but not one word from you about that Hurl.

Did Obama use vacations and golf as a political football during the campaign like Trump did? Did Obama criticize his predecessor, claiming that he " wouldn't have time for golf" once elected? Did Obama spent the years before he was elected constantly mocking (dozens of tweets) the sitting president for playing golf while X problem existed? Yet 10 months in, Trump and his admin are on target to far exceed anything that occurred under Obama with respect to golf or flights and trips at taxpayer expense.
Trump.is a fraud. He lambasted Obama for golfing. He does more. He attacked Al Franken over how he treated a woman. Grab them by the pussy. He told voters only he could fix the US. He has done nothing . Hopefully he will break the GOP.

If you think one party rule is beneficial for anyone, take a look at whats happening in IL or CT.  Every Democracy needs a healthy opposition
The GOP is dying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a fucks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal fucks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 27, 2017, 05:57:30 AM
Stew:
Thank you for the response.
Firstly.. I am not anonymous. My name, albeit slightly corrupted, is right there in the post.
We have actually communicated in the past.
Look, if I wasn't a tired old man I would try to persuade you with factual evidence that Obama was a decent man who was screwed at every turn by the Ayn Rand brigade of "trickle down" BS artists who  are the real cause of ballooning the deficit and widening the income gap. The stuff that's bringing the United States to it's knees.
Smarter board contributors with more credibility than this old low energy lurker have been working on that for years to no avail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 27, 2017, 06:24:21 AM
Just in case anyone is confused about who the Ayn Rand brigade are
http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/10/10-paul-ryan-ayn-rand.w710.h473.2x.jpg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2017, 07:58:18 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

Stew

The richest 10% of Americans own 90% of everything.  Blame them. The Dems have been weak and craven. They sold their soul to the plutocrat 20 years ago  the GOP is even worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 27, 2017, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 27, 2017, 07:58:18 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

Stew

The richest 10% of Americans own 90% of everything.  Blame them. The Dems have been weak and craven. They sold their soul to the plutocrat 20 years ago  the GOP is even worse.

The bit in bold puzzles me.  Did Obama not inherit a large debt? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 27, 2017, 11:09:06 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 27, 2017, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 27, 2017, 07:58:18 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

Stew

The richest 10% of Americans own 90% of everything.  Blame them. The Dems have been weak and craven. They sold their soul to the plutocrat 20 years ago  the GOP is even worse.

The bit in bold puzzles me.  Did Obama not inherit a large debt?

He did . . . and Trump's new tax plan is adding $1.2tn to that debt but it's all Obama's fault!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

The transgender issue features first on your list of gripes?? Seriously? Advocacy for inclusiveness and accommodation for transgender people? THAT'S a major problem for you?? Do you wish they'd f**k off back into the closet?

Still harping on about the debt while ignoring the conditions that led to it and offering no alternative whatsoever as to what should have been done (and ignoring the GOP's latest reimbrace of deficit spending once they're back in power).

The Middle East/ISIS... I'm not saying Obama handled that particular powder keg very well, but no blame from you for the GOP and Bush for what they did in Iraq which led directly to ISIS? Put it this way, what should Obama have done differently? The Iraqis wanted them out. They agreed under Bush to get out. The US people wanted them out.

Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 27, 2017, 12:20:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 27, 2017, 11:09:06 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 27, 2017, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 27, 2017, 07:58:18 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

Stew

The richest 10% of Americans own 90% of everything.  Blame them. The Dems have been weak and craven. They sold their soul to the plutocrat 20 years ago  the GOP is even worse.

The bit in bold puzzles me.  Did Obama not inherit a large debt?

He did . . . and Trump's new tax plan is adding $1.2tn to that debt but it's all Obama's fault!!



I know right! Now remind me again exactly how much debt Obama created and how many presidents it took to equal the debt he put the country in?

I dont like Trump, never did, never will, he is one of you lot in all but name, follow the money.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2017, 01:18:44 PM
Quote from: stew on November 27, 2017, 12:20:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 27, 2017, 11:09:06 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 27, 2017, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 27, 2017, 07:58:18 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

Stew

The richest 10% of Americans own 90% of everything.  Blame them. The Dems have been weak and craven. They sold their soul to the plutocrat 20 years ago  the GOP is even worse.

The bit in bold puzzles me.  Did Obama not inherit a large debt?

He did . . . and Trump's new tax plan is adding $1.2tn to that debt but it's all Obama's fault!!



I know right! Now remind me again exactly how much debt Obama created and how many presidents it took to equal the debt he put the country in?

I dont like Trump, never did, never will, he is one of you lot in all but name, follow the money.

Once again stew, you're either very dumb or extremely intellectually dishonest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

No illegals = no problem.

What part of that don't you understand?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:12:56 PM
If you ever needed evidence of how scummy the democrats can be

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/laurettabrown/2017/11/21/little-sisters-of-the-poor-go-back-to-court-as-ca-and-pa-sue-to-force-contraceptive-mandate-n2412496

Suing nuns that look after the sick and the poor for not providing contraceptives is just evil. I can't wait to see how our resident liberals will spin this one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:37:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

No illegals = no problem.

What part of that don't you understand?

Meanwhile, back in the real world (not the unobtainable, illegal-free utopia of your dreams), there ARE in fact millions of illegals who, short of some mass, NAZI-style round-up, are not going anywhere and present a scenario which has to be reckoned with by actual local authorities and public safety organizations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:48:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:12:56 PM
If you ever needed evidence of how scummy the democrats can be

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/laurettabrown/2017/11/21/little-sisters-of-the-poor-go-back-to-court-as-ca-and-pa-sue-to-force-contraceptive-mandate-n2412496

Suing nuns that look after the sick and the poor for not providing contraceptives is just evil. I can't wait to see how our resident liberals will spin this one.

So you're in favour of Jehovah's Witness employers omitting blood transfusion treatment from health insurance plans?

What about addiction treatment for, say, a muslim business owner?

There's a big story in Canada currently about a couple who caused their child to die due to their attempts to treat his meningitis with herbs and new age remedies. Should vaccinations be permitted to be left out of insurance plans based on the whims of the employer?

My wife is on birth control pills mainly for non-procreational, medical reasons. Should we have to fork out each month because of the ad hoc prejudices and superstition of a particular business owner?

Or is a standard, predictable set of requirements better all around for everyone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on November 27, 2017, 05:52:06 PM
Fox Cammander truly comes across as 1 of these ''forgot where he came from'' types. Literally an Irishman lecturing about illegals in America of all places. Forgetting about your complete rubbish in the above post about liberals, trans-genders and god knows what else is in that neo-conservative head....Actually can't get over what I just read there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2017, 07:11:14 PM
Stop feeding the troll. He should have been banned from here ages ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 08:34:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2017, 07:11:14 PM
Stop feeding the troll. He should have been banned from here ages ago.

Eamon sweetie - just go back into your safe space. There's a good boy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:48:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:12:56 PM
If you ever needed evidence of how scummy the democrats can be

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/laurettabrown/2017/11/21/little-sisters-of-the-poor-go-back-to-court-as-ca-and-pa-sue-to-force-contraceptive-mandate-n2412496

Suing nuns that look after the sick and the poor for not providing contraceptives is just evil. I can't wait to see how our resident liberals will spin this one.

So you're in favour of Jehovah's Witness employers omitting blood transfusion treatment from health insurance plans?

What about addiction treatment for, say, a muslim business owner?

There's a big story in Canada currently about a couple who caused their child to die due to their attempts to treat his meningitis with herbs and new age remedies. Should vaccinations be permitted to be left out of insurance plans based on the whims of the employer?

My wife is on birth control pills mainly for non-procreational, medical reasons. Should we have to fork out each month because of the ad hoc prejudices and superstition of a particular business owner?


Yes - you should pay for your own entertainment. Instead people like you think that it's the responsibility of nuns even though it's completely against their core beliefs

Yet the left want you to believe than gender is fluid, some religions aren't dangerous and other guilt-tripping PC nonsense.

That's fucked up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2017, 09:57:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:48:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:12:56 PM
If you ever needed evidence of how scummy the democrats can be

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/laurettabrown/2017/11/21/little-sisters-of-the-poor-go-back-to-court-as-ca-and-pa-sue-to-force-contraceptive-mandate-n2412496

Suing nuns that look after the sick and the poor for not providing contraceptives is just evil. I can't wait to see how our resident liberals will spin this one.

So you're in favour of Jehovah's Witness employers omitting blood transfusion treatment from health insurance plans?

What about addiction treatment for, say, a muslim business owner?

There's a big story in Canada currently about a couple who caused their child to die due to their attempts to treat his meningitis with herbs and new age remedies. Should vaccinations be permitted to be left out of insurance plans based on the whims of the employer?

My wife is on birth control pills mainly for non-procreational, medical reasons. Should we have to fork out each month because of the ad hoc prejudices and superstition of a particular business owner?


Yes - you should pay for your own entertainment. Instead people like you think that it's the responsibility of nuns even though it's completely against their core beliefs

Yet the left want you to believe than gender is fluid, some religions aren't dangerous and other guilt-tripping PC nonsense.

That's fucked up.

So nothing whatsoever to say about the details of health plans being left to the whims and personal views of the employer? No comment on those other examples? Nothing to say about the fact that the pill is very often taken for non-sexual reasons?

Quality, comprehensive analysis as always foxcommander.

And whoever denied that religion isn't sometimes dangerous??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2017, 10:01:31 PM
Some lads here would no doubt have been rushing on to tell us about the latest O'Keefe 'bombshell" (had the Post not been exercising a bit of journalistic professionalism). ;D

How very christian of Moore and O'Keefe and Bannon to try to fraudulently discredit these nine women!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html?utm_term=.324a83cd4bef (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html?utm_term=.324a83cd4bef)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2017, 10:10:24 PM
The crazy uncle at Thanksgiving who makes everyone cringe.

Trump refers to a 'Pocahontas' in Congress at meeting with Native American WWII veterans (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump/trump-refers-to-a-pocahontas-in-congress-at-meeting-with-veterans-idUSKBN1DR2LV?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5a1c8c1104d30166d7fdfc0c&utm_medium=trueAnthem)

He said it right in front of them. In fact he said it to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 27, 2017, 10:48:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 10:01:31 PM
Some lads here would no doubt have been rushing on to tell us about the latest O'Keefe 'bombshell" (had the Post not been exercising a bit of journalistic professionalism). ;D

How very christian of Moore and O'Keefe and Bannon to try to fraudulently discredit these nine women!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html?utm_term=.324a83cd4bef (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html?utm_term=.324a83cd4bef)

Whooooops  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2017, 10:51:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2017, 10:10:24 PM
The crazy uncle at Thanksgiving who makes everyone cringe.

Trump refers to a 'Pocahontas' in Congress at meeting with Native American WWII veterans (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump/trump-refers-to-a-pocahontas-in-congress-at-meeting-with-veterans-idUSKBN1DR2LV?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5a1c8c1104d30166d7fdfc0c&utm_medium=trueAnthem)

He said it right in front of them. In fact he said it to them.

On the day he sends the man who tried to get the (Warren inspired) consumer protection agency abolished to take it over.

Hey, but Trump is for the working man. He hates the big banks for f**king over the little working man. Or something...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2017, 10:58:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 10:51:51 PM

On the day he sends the man who tried to get the (Warren inspired) consumer protection agency abolished to take it over.

Hey, but Trump is for the working man. He hates the big banks for f**king over the little working man. Or something...

Pure, unadulterated evil
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:24:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

The transgender issue features first on your list of gripes?? Seriously? Advocacy for inclusiveness and accommodation for transgender people? THAT'S a major problem for you?? Do you wish they'd f**k off back into the closet?

Transgenderism It is not remotely first, it was the first thing I wrote, there are far more pressing issues but I am sick and tired of hearing how f**king great and brave and wonderful yer man Jenner is now that he has baps and no balls! Winning awards for bravety etc! FFS wise up!!!

Still harping on about the debt while ignoring the conditions that led to it and offering no alternative whatsoever as to what should have been done (and ignoring the GOP's latest reimbrace of deficit spending once they're back in power).

I have offered alternatives as to what should have been done you clampett!!!  The GOP are as inept as the left, they are just less corrupt in my opinion, two sides of the same you know what blah blah b;lah!!!

The Middle East/ISIS... I'm not saying Obama handled that particular powder keg very well, but no blame from you for the GOP and Bush for what they did in Iraq which led directly to ISIS? Put it this way, what should Obama have done differently? The Iraqis wanted them out. They agreed under Bush to get out. The US people wanted them out.

The next time you cricitise  Obama will be the first time on this issue!

Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

Illegal aliens should not be in the country ffs! I would prefer they were back in whatever country they are from, Irish included! Its not hard, the rule of law needs to apply to all not just the non supercitizens that the left love for votes!

My problem with sanctuary cities is that they give safe harbor to criminals that are not even supposed to be in the country, I know how hard illegal imigrants work, I have seen it first hand, the problem with illegals, or one of the problems is that they dont give a f**k about the law if it effects their illegal entry into the country, and then there are the sheep that support their lawbreaking, liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that! Why should I follow the rules when they dont have to??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:26:28 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:24:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

The transgender issue features first on your list of gripes?? Seriously? Advocacy for inclusiveness and accommodation for transgender people? THAT'S a major problem for you?? Do you wish they'd f**k off back into the closet?

Transgenderism It is not remotely first, it was the first thing I wrote, there are far more pressing issues but I am sick and tired of hearing how f**king great and brave and wonderful yer man Jenner is now that he has baps and no balls! Winning awards for bravety etc! FFS wise up!!!

Still harping on about the debt while ignoring the conditions that led to it and offering no alternative whatsoever as to what should have been done (and ignoring the GOP's latest reimbrace of deficit spending once they're back in power).

I have offered alternatives as to what should have been done you clampett!!!  The GOP are as inept as the left, they are just less corrupt in my opinion, two sides of the same you know what blah blah b;lah!!!

The Middle East/ISIS... I'm not saying Obama handled that particular powder keg very well, but no blame from you for the GOP and Bush for what they did in Iraq which led directly to ISIS? Put it this way, what should Obama have done differently? The Iraqis wanted them out. They agreed under Bush to get out. The US people wanted them out.

The next time you cricitise  Obama will be the first time on this issue!

Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

Illegal aliens should not be in the country ffs! I would prefer they were back in whatever country they are from, Irish included! Its not hard, the rule of law needs to apply to all not just the non supercitizens that the left love for votes!

My problem with sanctuary cities is that they give safe harbor to criminals that are not even supposed to be in the country, I know how hard illegal imigrants work, I have seen it first hand, the problem with illegals, or one of the problems is that they dont give a f**k about the law if it effects their illegal entry into the country, and then there are the sheep that support their lawbreaking, liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that! Why should I follow the rules when they dont have to??

Do you break the law when it suits YOU stew? Do you speed when driving? Have you ever drove when you had that one drink too many and shouldn't have? Have you you done a few jobs under the table, cash in hand, out of earshot of the taxman? Have you ever hired an outfit to do construction on your house who might be employing illegals? Have you ever ordered a pizza or chinese and had it delivered by some Latino on a bike or moped who is probably illegal? Do you delve into every company you do business with to check their status with regards illegals, or are like the rest of us who have more important things to worry about than whether your delivery dude or the lad blowing the leaves across the street is legal or not? Everyone can justify or rationalize skirting the rules at some point. Your "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!" is just your usual blinkered, baseless vitriol.

And on the sanctuary city issue itself, there are degrees. I would agree with you that criminals should be handed over to the immigration authorities after serving their sentence. I have no problem whatsoever with that and I'd be surprised if many do. I have no problem with legitimate, genuine suspects being kicked out. What I support is allowing immigrants to report to and cooperate with the cops and authorities without fear of ICE being called. I don't think ICE agents should be pursuing kids in school, or that a family should be afraid to report their abusive landlord for fear of the immigration authorities being called.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2017, 02:47:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:26:28 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:24:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

The transgender issue features first on your list of gripes?? Seriously? Advocacy for inclusiveness and accommodation for transgender people? THAT'S a major problem for you?? Do you wish they'd f**k off back into the closet?

Transgenderism It is not remotely first, it was the first thing I wrote, there are far more pressing issues but I am sick and tired of hearing how f**king great and brave and wonderful yer man Jenner is now that he has baps and no balls! Winning awards for bravety etc! FFS wise up!!!

Still harping on about the debt while ignoring the conditions that led to it and offering no alternative whatsoever as to what should have been done (and ignoring the GOP's latest reimbrace of deficit spending once they're back in power).

I have offered alternatives as to what should have been done you clampett!!!  The GOP are as inept as the left, they are just less corrupt in my opinion, two sides of the same you know what blah blah b;lah!!!

The Middle East/ISIS... I'm not saying Obama handled that particular powder keg very well, but no blame from you for the GOP and Bush for what they did in Iraq which led directly to ISIS? Put it this way, what should Obama have done differently? The Iraqis wanted them out. They agreed under Bush to get out. The US people wanted them out.

The next time you cricitise  Obama will be the first time on this issue!

Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

Illegal aliens should not be in the country ffs! I would prefer they were back in whatever country they are from, Irish included! Its not hard, the rule of law needs to apply to all not just the non supercitizens that the left love for votes!

My problem with sanctuary cities is that they give safe harbor to criminals that are not even supposed to be in the country, I know how hard illegal imigrants work, I have seen it first hand, the problem with illegals, or one of the problems is that they dont give a f**k about the law if it effects their illegal entry into the country, and then there are the sheep that support their lawbreaking, liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that! Why should I follow the rules when they dont have to??

Do you break the law when it suits YOU stew? Do you speed when driving? Have you ever drove when you had that one drink too many and shouldn't have? Have you you done a few jobs under the table, cash in hand, out of earshot of the taxman? Have you ever hired an outfit to do construction on your house who might be employing illegals? Have you ever ordered a pizza or chinese and had it delivered by some Latino on a bike or moped who is probably illegal? Do you delve into every company you do business with to check their status with regards illegals, or are like the rest of us who have more important things to worry about than whether your delivery dude or the lad blowing the leaves across the street is legal or not? Everyone can justify or rationalize skirting the rules at some point. Your "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!" is just your usual blinkered, baseless vitriol.

I do not break the law when it suits me, nope!

It is not my job to check on who is legal in the states and who is not, that would not even enter my thought process, you can break this down by semantics all you want but the fact is wrong is wrong, hate this as you might!

Are you blinkered when you despise everything the right stands for? I have reason to loathe the left in the states, plenty of reason and dont talk about blinkers you hypocrite when you have f**k all good to say about the right!

And on the sanctuary city issue itself, there are degrees. I would agree with you that criminals should be handed over to the immigration authorities after serving their sentence. I have no problem whatsoever with that and I'd be surprised if many do. I have no problem with legitimate, genuine suspects being kicked out. What I support is allowing immigrants to report to and cooperate with the cops and authorities without fear of ICE being called. I don't think ICE agents should be pursuing kids in school, or that a family should be afraid to report their abusive landlord for fear of the immigration authorities being called.

Sanctuary cities are cancers, immoral cancers that afford criminals to break the law with impunity with the help of the left and the  that wonderful peeple that support them!

You do not get a pass for having illegals report to the cops for anything whilst getting a free pass, they need to eff of back to Ireland, Mexico, Bulgaria or wherever the feck alese they came from because they entered the country illegally, its not hard, simply follow the f**king law!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2017, 09:13:49 AM
This says so much about Trump.. Always attack. Never apilogisr.

via the Indo

Donald Trump has been criticised for using a racial slur during an event honouring Native American veterans.

The US president was welcoming three Navajo code talkers from the Second World War to the Oval Office on Monday afternoon when he referred to Elizabeth Warren, the Democratic senator, as "Pocahontas".

During remarks praising their service, he said: "You were here long before any of us were here.  Although we have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her Pocahontas. But you know what, I like you."

Defending Mr Trump's remarks, the White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said: "I think what most people find offensive is Senator Warren lying about her heritage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 11:43:14 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 02:47:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:26:28 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:24:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

The transgender issue features first on your list of gripes?? Seriously? Advocacy for inclusiveness and accommodation for transgender people? THAT'S a major problem for you?? Do you wish they'd f**k off back into the closet?

Transgenderism It is not remotely first, it was the first thing I wrote, there are far more pressing issues but I am sick and tired of hearing how f**king great and brave and wonderful yer man Jenner is now that he has baps and no balls! Winning awards for bravety etc! FFS wise up!!!

Still harping on about the debt while ignoring the conditions that led to it and offering no alternative whatsoever as to what should have been done (and ignoring the GOP's latest reimbrace of deficit spending once they're back in power).

I have offered alternatives as to what should have been done you clampett!!!  The GOP are as inept as the left, they are just less corrupt in my opinion, two sides of the same you know what blah blah b;lah!!!

The Middle East/ISIS... I'm not saying Obama handled that particular powder keg very well, but no blame from you for the GOP and Bush for what they did in Iraq which led directly to ISIS? Put it this way, what should Obama have done differently? The Iraqis wanted them out. They agreed under Bush to get out. The US people wanted them out.

The next time you cricitise  Obama will be the first time on this issue!

Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

Illegal aliens should not be in the country ffs! I would prefer they were back in whatever country they are from, Irish included! Its not hard, the rule of law needs to apply to all not just the non supercitizens that the left love for votes!

My problem with sanctuary cities is that they give safe harbor to criminals that are not even supposed to be in the country, I know how hard illegal imigrants work, I have seen it first hand, the problem with illegals, or one of the problems is that they dont give a f**k about the law if it effects their illegal entry into the country, and then there are the sheep that support their lawbreaking, liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that! Why should I follow the rules when they dont have to??

Do you break the law when it suits YOU stew? Do you speed when driving? Have you ever drove when you had that one drink too many and shouldn't have? Have you you done a few jobs under the table, cash in hand, out of earshot of the taxman? Have you ever hired an outfit to do construction on your house who might be employing illegals? Have you ever ordered a pizza or chinese and had it delivered by some Latino on a bike or moped who is probably illegal? Do you delve into every company you do business with to check their status with regards illegals, or are like the rest of us who have more important things to worry about than whether your delivery dude or the lad blowing the leaves across the street is legal or not? Everyone can justify or rationalize skirting the rules at some point. Your "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!" is just your usual blinkered, baseless vitriol.

I do not break the law when it suits me, nope!

It is not my job to check on who is legal in the states and who is not, that would not even enter my thought process, you can break this down by semantics all you want but the fact is wrong is wrong, hate this as you might!

Are you blinkered when you despise everything the right stands for? I have reason to loathe the left in the states, plenty of reason and dont talk about blinkers you hypocrite when you have f**k all good to say about the right!

And on the sanctuary city issue itself, there are degrees. I would agree with you that criminals should be handed over to the immigration authorities after serving their sentence. I have no problem whatsoever with that and I'd be surprised if many do. I have no problem with legitimate, genuine suspects being kicked out. What I support is allowing immigrants to report to and cooperate with the cops and authorities without fear of ICE being called. I don't think ICE agents should be pursuing kids in school, or that a family should be afraid to report their abusive landlord for fear of the immigration authorities being called.

Sanctuary cities are cancers, immoral cancers that afford criminals to break the law with impunity with the help of the left and the  that wonderful peeple that support them!

You do not get a pass for having illegals report to the cops for anything whilst getting a free pass, they need to eff of back to Ireland, Mexico, Bulgaria or wherever the feck alese they came from because they entered the country illegally, its not hard, simply follow the f**king law!!!!

I'm not asking for a pass. I'm stating the justifiable pragmatism and morality of my position. I stand by it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:00:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 11:43:14 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 02:47:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:26:28 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:24:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

The transgender issue features first on your list of gripes?? Seriously? Advocacy for inclusiveness and accommodation for transgender people? THAT'S a major problem for you?? Do you wish they'd f**k off back into the closet?

Transgenderism It is not remotely first, it was the first thing I wrote, there are far more pressing issues but I am sick and tired of hearing how f**king great and brave and wonderful yer man Jenner is now that he has baps and no balls! Winning awards for bravety etc! FFS wise up!!!

Still harping on about the debt while ignoring the conditions that led to it and offering no alternative whatsoever as to what should have been done (and ignoring the GOP's latest reimbrace of deficit spending once they're back in power).

I have offered alternatives as to what should have been done you clampett!!!  The GOP are as inept as the left, they are just less corrupt in my opinion, two sides of the same you know what blah blah b;lah!!!

The Middle East/ISIS... I'm not saying Obama handled that particular powder keg very well, but no blame from you for the GOP and Bush for what they did in Iraq which led directly to ISIS? Put it this way, what should Obama have done differently? The Iraqis wanted them out. They agreed under Bush to get out. The US people wanted them out.

The next time you cricitise  Obama will be the first time on this issue!

Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

Illegal aliens should not be in the country ffs! I would prefer they were back in whatever country they are from, Irish included! Its not hard, the rule of law needs to apply to all not just the non supercitizens that the left love for votes!

My problem with sanctuary cities is that they give safe harbor to criminals that are not even supposed to be in the country, I know how hard illegal imigrants work, I have seen it first hand, the problem with illegals, or one of the problems is that they dont give a f**k about the law if it effects their illegal entry into the country, and then there are the sheep that support their lawbreaking, liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that! Why should I follow the rules when they dont have to??

Do you break the law when it suits YOU stew? Do you speed when driving? Have you ever drove when you had that one drink too many and shouldn't have? Have you you done a few jobs under the table, cash in hand, out of earshot of the taxman? Have you ever hired an outfit to do construction on your house who might be employing illegals? Have you ever ordered a pizza or chinese and had it delivered by some Latino on a bike or moped who is probably illegal? Do you delve into every company you do business with to check their status with regards illegals, or are like the rest of us who have more important things to worry about than whether your delivery dude or the lad blowing the leaves across the street is legal or not? Everyone can justify or rationalize skirting the rules at some point. Your "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!" is just your usual blinkered, baseless vitriol.

I do not break the law when it suits me, nope!

It is not my job to check on who is legal in the states and who is not, that would not even enter my thought process, you can break this down by semantics all you want but the fact is wrong is wrong, hate this as you might!

Are you blinkered when you despise everything the right stands for? I have reason to loathe the left in the states, plenty of reason and dont talk about blinkers you hypocrite when you have f**k all good to say about the right!

And on the sanctuary city issue itself, there are degrees. I would agree with you that criminals should be handed over to the immigration authorities after serving their sentence. I have no problem whatsoever with that and I'd be surprised if many do. I have no problem with legitimate, genuine suspects being kicked out. What I support is allowing immigrants to report to and cooperate with the cops and authorities without fear of ICE being called. I don't think ICE agents should be pursuing kids in school, or that a family should be afraid to report their abusive landlord for fear of the immigration authorities being called.

Sanctuary cities are cancers, immoral cancers that afford criminals to break the law with impunity with the help of the left and the  that wonderful peeple that support them!

You do not get a pass for having illegals report to the cops for anything whilst getting a free pass, they need to eff of back to Ireland, Mexico, Bulgaria or wherever the feck alese they came from because they entered the country illegally, its not hard, simply follow the f**king law!!!!

I'm not asking for a pass. I'm stating the justifiable pragmatism and morality of my position. I stand by it.

You have no morality on this position! None!

You condone breaking the law, were is the morality in that?

There are no degrees, none, sanctuary cities are an absolute disgrace to the American people, end of.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:04:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:37:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

No illegals = no problem.

What part of that don't you understand?

Meanwhile, back in the real world (not the unobtainable, illegal-free utopia of your dreams), there ARE in fact millions of illegals who, short of some mass, NAZI-style round-up, are not going anywhere and present a scenario which has to be reckoned with by actual local authorities and public safety organizations.

They are illegals! In the real world they are illegally in the country and have no rights to be there at all at all, the number does not matter to me one iota, you spewing millions does not deflect from the fact they should not be in the country and are breaking the law of the country every day they are in the country llegally.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:09:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2017, 09:13:49 AM
This says so much about Trump.. Always attack. Never apilogisr.

via the Indo

Donald Trump has been criticised for using a racial slur during an event honouring Native American veterans.

The US president was welcoming three Navajo code talkers from the Second World War to the Oval Office on Monday afternoon when he referred to Elizabeth Warren, the Democratic senator, as "Pocahontas".

During remarks praising their service, he said: "You were here long before any of us were here.  Although we have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her Pocahontas. But you know what, I like you."

Defending Mr Trump's remarks, the White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said: "I think what most people find offensive is Senator Warren lying about her heritage.

Saunders should not defend the indefensible, that was cringworthy and absolutely wrong by Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:20:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:26:28 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:24:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

The transgender issue features first on your list of gripes?? Seriously? Advocacy for inclusiveness and accommodation for transgender people? THAT'S a major problem for you?? Do you wish they'd f**k off back into the closet?

Transgenderism It is not remotely first, it was the first thing I wrote, there are far more pressing issues but I am sick and tired of hearing how f**king great and brave and wonderful yer man Jenner is now that he has baps and no balls! Winning awards for bravety etc! FFS wise up!!!

Still harping on about the debt while ignoring the conditions that led to it and offering no alternative whatsoever as to what should have been done (and ignoring the GOP's latest reimbrace of deficit spending once they're back in power).

I have offered alternatives as to what should have been done you clampett!!!  The GOP are as inept as the left, they are just less corrupt in my opinion, two sides of the same you know what blah blah b;lah!!!

The Middle East/ISIS... I'm not saying Obama handled that particular powder keg very well, but no blame from you for the GOP and Bush for what they did in Iraq which led directly to ISIS? Put it this way, what should Obama have done differently? The Iraqis wanted them out. They agreed under Bush to get out. The US people wanted them out.

The next time you cricitise  Obama will be the first time on this issue!

Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

Illegal aliens should not be in the country ffs! I would prefer they were back in whatever country they are from, Irish included! Its not hard, the rule of law needs to apply to all not just the non supercitizens that the left love for votes!

My problem with sanctuary cities is that they give safe harbor to criminals that are not even supposed to be in the country, I know how hard illegal imigrants work, I have seen it first hand, the problem with illegals, or one of the problems is that they dont give a f**k about the law if it effects their illegal entry into the country, and then there are the sheep that support their lawbreaking, liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that! Why should I follow the rules when they dont have to??

Do you break the law when it suits YOU stew? Do you speed when driving? Have you ever drove when you had that one drink too many and shouldn't have? Have you you done a few jobs under the table, cash in hand, out of earshot of the taxman? Have you ever hired an outfit to do construction on your house who might be employing illegals? Have you ever ordered a pizza or chinese and had it delivered by some Latino on a bike or moped who is probably illegal? Do you delve into every company you do business with to check their status with regards illegals, or are like the rest of us who have more important things to worry about than whether your delivery dude or the lad blowing the leaves across the street is legal or not? Everyone can justify or rationalize skirting the rules at some point. Your "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!" is just your usual blinkered, baseless vitriol.

And on the sanctuary city issue itself, there are degrees. I would agree with you that criminals should be handed over to the immigration authorities after serving their sentence. I have no problem whatsoever with that and I'd be surprised if many do. I have no problem with legitimate, genuine suspects being kicked out. What I support is allowing immigrants to report to and cooperate with the cops and authorities without fear of ICE being called. I don't think ICE agents should be pursuing kids in school, or that a family should be afraid to report their abusive landlord for fear of the immigration authorities being called.

Are you really comparing speeding with living in a country you have no right to be in???????

I have drove too fast many times, I broke the law and when caught I got tickets and paid fines, I was held accountable, got points on my license and my insurance went up.

I got destroyed by a drunk driver when I was 26 and had to learn to read and write all over again due to a severe head injury from which I got epilepsy and a shit ton of seizures, so I do not drink and drive.

Have I done jobs for cash, yes is the simple answer, if I had got caught picking strawberrys and getting cash money and screwing the taxman I would have been fined, I did this from when I was 11 until I was 16 or so.

I had a company called Tycore Built build my home, they are a family owned business with zero illegals on their books, they are fantastic.

Baseless vitriol? Really, people like you plant seeds, you are dangerous, you try and equate minor infractions and major infractions as equal, they are not equal, liberals are great at making up pathetic arguments such as yours because they have to be, they have no moral ground to stand on in this issue, it is not hard, if you are in the country illegally you need to go back to were you came from, apply for residency and jump through the same hopps I and many other legal aliens did to get there and no amount of bullshit spewed forth from your pie hole will ever change that kid! None.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 28, 2017, 01:50:02 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:20:58 PM

Are you really comparing speeding with living in a country you have no right to be in???????

I have drove too fast many times, I broke the law and when caught I got tickets and paid fines, I was held accountable, got points on my license and my insurance went up.

I got destroyed by a drunk driver when I was 26 and had to learn to read and write all over again due to a severe head injury from which I got epilepsy and a shit ton of seizures, so I do not drink and drive.

Have I done jobs for cash, yes is the simple answer, if I had got caught picking strawberrys and getting cash money and screwing the taxman I would have been fined, I did this from when I was 11 until I was 16 or so.

I had a company called Tycore Built build my home, they are a family owned business with zero illegals on their books, they are fantastic.

Baseless vitriol? Really, people like you plant seeds, you are dangerous, you try and equate minor infractions and major infractions as equal, they are not equal, liberals are great at making up pathetic arguments such as yours because they have to be, they have no moral ground to stand on in this issue, it is not hard, if you are in the country illegally you need to go back to were you came from, apply for residency and jump through the same hopps I and many other legal aliens did to get there and no amount of bullshit spewed forth from your pie hole will ever change that kid! None.

What an excellent post Stew.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:51:04 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:04:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:37:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

No illegals = no problem.

What part of that don't you understand?

Meanwhile, back in the real world (not the unobtainable, illegal-free utopia of your dreams), there ARE in fact millions of illegals who, short of some mass, NAZI-style round-up, are not going anywhere and present a scenario which has to be reckoned with by actual local authorities and public safety organizations.

They are illegals! In the real world they are illegally in the country and have no rights to be there at all at all, the number does not matter to me one iota, you spewing millions does not deflect from the fact they should not be in the country and are breaking the law of the country every day they are in the country llegally.

What's better for overall public safety and health stew?

A large body of people who are NOT afraid to go to the authorities, when necessary, or millions living completely in the shadows, afraid to report and cooperate and help nail criminals and law breakers, legal or otherwise?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 28, 2017, 01:52:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2017, 09:13:49 AM
This says so much about Trump.. Always attack. Never apilogisr.

via the Indo

Donald Trump has been criticised for using a racial slur during an event honouring Native American veterans.

The US president was welcoming three Navajo code talkers from the Second World War to the Oval Office on Monday afternoon when he referred to Elizabeth Warren, the Democratic senator, as "Pocahontas".

During remarks praising their service, he said: "You were here long before any of us were here.  Although we have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her Pocahontas. But you know what, I like you."

Defending Mr Trump's remarks, the White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said: "I think what most people find offensive is Senator Warren lying about her heritage.

What Racial slur? Warren lied about being native american. President Trump made a joke of it.

If anything he's being clever to keep reminding everyone of what she did as he's already looking towards 2020 and his potential opponents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 28, 2017, 01:52:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:51:04 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:04:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:37:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

No illegals = no problem.

What part of that don't you understand?

Meanwhile, back in the real world (not the unobtainable, illegal-free utopia of your dreams), there ARE in fact millions of illegals who, short of some mass, NAZI-style round-up, are not going anywhere and present a scenario which has to be reckoned with by actual local authorities and public safety organizations.

They are illegals! In the real world they are illegally in the country and have no rights to be there at all at all, the number does not matter to me one iota, you spewing millions does not deflect from the fact they should not be in the country and are breaking the law of the country every day they are in the country llegally.

What's better for overall public safety and health stew?


Deport them. That's the actual answer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:55:38 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:04:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:37:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

No illegals = no problem.

What part of that don't you understand?

Meanwhile, back in the real world (not the unobtainable, illegal-free utopia of your dreams), there ARE in fact millions of illegals who, short of some mass, NAZI-style round-up, are not going anywhere and present a scenario which has to be reckoned with by actual local authorities and public safety organizations.

They are illegals! In the real world they are illegally in the country and have no rights to be there at all at all, the number does not matter to me one iota, you spewing millions does not deflect from the fact they should not be in the country and are breaking the law of the country every day they are in the country llegally.

I'll bet you're a big advocate of abstinence-only sex education. Its of the same black/white, no grey areas, unrealistic, pie in the sky worldview as your "they're illegal, end of" bollocks.

I absolutely can defend this position on a moral basis. My position treats people as individual real human beings. Yours treats them as a statistic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:57:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 28, 2017, 01:52:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:51:04 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:04:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:37:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

No illegals = no problem.

What part of that don't you understand?

Meanwhile, back in the real world (not the unobtainable, illegal-free utopia of your dreams), there ARE in fact millions of illegals who, short of some mass, NAZI-style round-up, are not going anywhere and present a scenario which has to be reckoned with by actual local authorities and public safety organizations.

They are illegals! In the real world they are illegally in the country and have no rights to be there at all at all, the number does not matter to me one iota, you spewing millions does not deflect from the fact they should not be in the country and are breaking the law of the country every day they are in the country llegally.

What's better for overall public safety and health stew?


Deport them. That's the actual answer.

Well thought out, as always.

But what happens to the actual serious and dangerous law breakers who get to skate because the community is afraid to engage with the authorities?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 28, 2017, 02:00:53 PM
Oh Nancy! You're now protecting predators like John Conyers. He even took meetings in his underwear!

"John Conyers is an icon in our country. He's done a great deal to protect women,"

He sure has. Protect them from talking you mean.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/26/politics/pelosi-conyers-icon-mtp/index.html

Pelosi is shit scared as this guy is a leader of a minority group and doesn't want to upset him.



Franken must be innocent too at this rate. What photo? I see he's not planning to resign either.

You crazy democrats. Keep on pretending it's not happening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:20:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:26:28 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:24:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

The transgender issue features first on your list of gripes?? Seriously? Advocacy for inclusiveness and accommodation for transgender people? THAT'S a major problem for you?? Do you wish they'd f**k off back into the closet?

Transgenderism It is not remotely first, it was the first thing I wrote, there are far more pressing issues but I am sick and tired of hearing how f**king great and brave and wonderful yer man Jenner is now that he has baps and no balls! Winning awards for bravety etc! FFS wise up!!!

Still harping on about the debt while ignoring the conditions that led to it and offering no alternative whatsoever as to what should have been done (and ignoring the GOP's latest reimbrace of deficit spending once they're back in power).

I have offered alternatives as to what should have been done you clampett!!!  The GOP are as inept as the left, they are just less corrupt in my opinion, two sides of the same you know what blah blah b;lah!!!

The Middle East/ISIS... I'm not saying Obama handled that particular powder keg very well, but no blame from you for the GOP and Bush for what they did in Iraq which led directly to ISIS? Put it this way, what should Obama have done differently? The Iraqis wanted them out. They agreed under Bush to get out. The US people wanted them out.

The next time you cricitise  Obama will be the first time on this issue!

Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

Illegal aliens should not be in the country ffs! I would prefer they were back in whatever country they are from, Irish included! Its not hard, the rule of law needs to apply to all not just the non supercitizens that the left love for votes!

My problem with sanctuary cities is that they give safe harbor to criminals that are not even supposed to be in the country, I know how hard illegal imigrants work, I have seen it first hand, the problem with illegals, or one of the problems is that they dont give a f**k about the law if it effects their illegal entry into the country, and then there are the sheep that support their lawbreaking, liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that! Why should I follow the rules when they dont have to??

Do you break the law when it suits YOU stew? Do you speed when driving? Have you ever drove when you had that one drink too many and shouldn't have? Have you you done a few jobs under the table, cash in hand, out of earshot of the taxman? Have you ever hired an outfit to do construction on your house who might be employing illegals? Have you ever ordered a pizza or chinese and had it delivered by some Latino on a bike or moped who is probably illegal? Do you delve into every company you do business with to check their status with regards illegals, or are like the rest of us who have more important things to worry about than whether your delivery dude or the lad blowing the leaves across the street is legal or not? Everyone can justify or rationalize skirting the rules at some point. Your "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!" is just your usual blinkered, baseless vitriol.

And on the sanctuary city issue itself, there are degrees. I would agree with you that criminals should be handed over to the immigration authorities after serving their sentence. I have no problem whatsoever with that and I'd be surprised if many do. I have no problem with legitimate, genuine suspects being kicked out. What I support is allowing immigrants to report to and cooperate with the cops and authorities without fear of ICE being called. I don't think ICE agents should be pursuing kids in school, or that a family should be afraid to report their abusive landlord for fear of the immigration authorities being called.

Are you really comparing speeding with living in a country you have no right to be in???????

I have drove too fast many times, I broke the law and when caught I got tickets and paid fines, I was held accountable, got points on my license and my insurance went up.

I got destroyed by a drunk driver when I was 26 and had to learn to read and write all over again due to a severe head injury from which I got epilepsy and a shit ton of seizures, so I do not drink and drive.

Have I done jobs for cash, yes is the simple answer, if I had got caught picking strawberrys and getting cash money and screwing the taxman I would have been fined, I did this from when I was 11 until I was 16 or so.

I had a company called Tycore Built build my home, they are a family owned business with zero illegals on their books, they are fantastic.

Baseless vitriol? Really, people like you plant seeds, you are dangerous, you try and equate minor infractions and major infractions as equal, they are not equal, liberals are great at making up pathetic arguments such as yours because they have to be, they have no moral ground to stand on in this issue, it is not hard, if you are in the country illegally you need to go back to were you came from, apply for residency and jump through the same hopps I and many other legal aliens did to get there and no amount of bullshit spewed forth from your pie hole will ever change that kid! None.

You are the one who was frothing at the mouth that "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!". Don't get angry at me for pointing out the obvious hypocrisy. We all bend the rules when it suits us.

And there's nothing pathetic about my arguments. They're pragmatic and based in the real world. Unless you're advocating mass round-ups, illegals are in the US to stay, and allowing them to engage with police and other authorities without fear of deportation and breaking up of families is the realistic AND moral position to hold.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 02:04:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 28, 2017, 02:00:53 PM
Oh Nancy! You're now protecting predators like John Conyers. He even took meetings in his underwear!

"John Conyers is an icon in our country. He's done a great deal to protect women,"

He sure has. Protect them from talking you mean.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/26/politics/pelosi-conyers-icon-mtp/index.html

Pelosi is shit scared as this guy is a leader of a minority group and doesn't want to upset him.



Franken must be innocent too at this rate. What photo? I see he's not planning to resign either.

You crazy democrats. Keep on pretending it's not happening.

And you keep posting pictures of the pussy grabber and, presumably, backing the adolsecent stalker in Alabama.

At least these men have admitted to it and are and will pay a price.

How many accusers have Trump and Moore between them at this stage? What will the consequences be for them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 28, 2017, 02:13:07 PM
Well - not only is Donnie not admitting it - he's now saying the Access Hollywood tape was faked. The only slight issue with that is that he's already apologized for saying the stuff on the tape.

Quote"Anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who I am. I said it, I was wrong and I apologize."

It boggles the mind

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 02:42:59 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 28, 2017, 02:13:07 PM
Well - not only is Donnie not admitting it - he's now saying the Access Hollywood tape was faked. The only slight issue with that is that he's already apologized for saying the stuff on the tape.

Quote"Anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who I am. I said it, I was wrong and I apologize."

It boggles the mind

Not mind boggling when you realize that to Trump, whether or not news is faked depends on whether it is damaging to him or not, not on whether the content/substance is genuine.

Hence actual real, verifiable, photos of his inferior inauguration crowd HAD to be fake. Because his was the biggest and greatest ever! It's as if all that matters is what HE proclaims, not what intelligent people can see. Once he denounces something as fake, to him, it ceases to matter.

What's mind boggling is how he continually gets a pass from the right on his bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 28, 2017, 03:39:12 PM
What sort of man would hire illegal undocumented workers?

QuoteIn 1980, under pressure to begin construction on what would become his signature project, Donald J. Trump employed a crew of 200 undocumented Polish workers who worked in 12-hour shifts, without gloves, hard hats or masks, to demolish the Bonwit Teller building on Fifth Avenue, where the 58-story, golden-hued Trump Tower now stands.

The workers were paid as little as $4 an hour for their dangerous labor, less than half the union wage, if they got paid at all.

Their treatment led to years of litigation over Mr. Trump's labor practices, and in 1998, despite frequent claims that he never settles lawsuits, Mr. Trump quietly reached an agreement to end a class-action suit over the Bonwit Teller demolition in which he was a defendant.

For almost 20 years, the terms of that settlement have remained a secret. But last week, the settlement documents were unsealed by Loretta A. Preska, a United States District Court judge for the Southern District, in response to a 2016 motion filed by Time Inc. and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. Judge Preska found that the public's right to know of court proceedings in a class-action case was strengthened by the involvement of the "now-president of the United States."

In a 21-page finding, Judge Preska wrote that "the Trump Parties have failed to identify any interests that can overcome the common law and First Amendment presumptions of access to the four documents at issue."

On the campaign trail and as president, Mr. Trump has made curbing immigration one of his top priorities, seeking to close the borders to people from certain Muslim-majority countries and to deport immigrants who are here illegally. The settlement serves as a reminder that as an employer he relied on illegal immigrants to get a dangerous and dirty job done.

Katie Townsend, litigation director of the Reporters Committee, called the decision a major victory that goes beyond this one case. "It makes clear that both the First Amendment and common law rights of public access apply to settlement-related documents in class actions," she said.

Lawyers for Mr. Trump were not immediately available for comment.

The documents show that Mr. Trump paid a total of $1.375 million to settle the case, known as Hardy v. Kaszycki, with $500,000 of it going to a union benefits fund and the rest to pay lawyers' fees and expenses. According to the documents, one of the union lawyers involved asked the judge to ensure "prompt payment" from Mr. Trump, suggesting "within two weeks after the settlement date."

Mr. Trump jumped in to object. "Thirty days is normal," he said.

At the time of the settlement, the court papers note, "this case has been litigated for 15 years and has already required three rounds of discovery, extensive motion practice, a 16-day trial and two appeals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ball Hopper on November 28, 2017, 03:49:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 28, 2017, 03:39:12 PM
What sort of man would hire illegal undocumented workers?

QuoteIn 1980, under pressure to begin construction on what would become his signature project, Donald J. Trump employed a crew of 200 undocumented Polish workers who worked in 12-hour shifts, without gloves, hard hats or masks, to demolish the Bonwit Teller building on Fifth Avenue, where the 58-story, golden-hued Trump Tower now stands.

The workers were paid as little as $4 an hour for their dangerous labor, less than half the union wage, if they got paid at all.

Their treatment led to years of litigation over Mr. Trump's labor practices, and in 1998, despite frequent claims that he never settles lawsuits, Mr. Trump quietly reached an agreement to end a class-action suit over the Bonwit Teller demolition in which he was a defendant.

For almost 20 years, the terms of that settlement have remained a secret. But last week, the settlement documents were unsealed by Loretta A. Preska, a United States District Court judge for the Southern District, in response to a 2016 motion filed by Time Inc. and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. Judge Preska found that the public's right to know of court proceedings in a class-action case was strengthened by the involvement of the "now-president of the United States."

In a 21-page finding, Judge Preska wrote that "the Trump Parties have failed to identify any interests that can overcome the common law and First Amendment presumptions of access to the four documents at issue."

On the campaign trail and as president, Mr. Trump has made curbing immigration one of his top priorities, seeking to close the borders to people from certain Muslim-majority countries and to deport immigrants who are here illegally. The settlement serves as a reminder that as an employer he relied on illegal immigrants to get a dangerous and dirty job done.

Katie Townsend, litigation director of the Reporters Committee, called the decision a major victory that goes beyond this one case. "It makes clear that both the First Amendment and common law rights of public access apply to settlement-related documents in class actions," she said.

Lawyers for Mr. Trump were not immediately available for comment.

The documents show that Mr. Trump paid a total of $1.375 million to settle the case, known as Hardy v. Kaszycki, with $500,000 of it going to a union benefits fund and the rest to pay lawyers' fees and expenses. According to the documents, one of the union lawyers involved asked the judge to ensure "prompt payment" from Mr. Trump, suggesting "within two weeks after the settlement date."

Mr. Trump jumped in to object. "Thirty days is normal," he said.

At the time of the settlement, the court papers note, "this case has been litigated for 15 years and has already required three rounds of discovery, extensive motion practice, a 16-day trial and two appeals.

Is that Hardy from here?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 03:52:11 PM
Interesting.

And it was in the days before asbestos awareness really hit the public consciousness. I wonder were any steps taken to protect those workers from all the asbestos-containing stuff they may have ripped out? Or lead?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 28, 2017, 04:43:53 PM
Chuck and Nancy just bitch slapped the President!!!

Is this them taking their opportunity to capitalise on his poor approval ratings??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 28, 2017, 06:23:12 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 28, 2017, 02:13:07 PM
Well - not only is Donnie not admitting it - he's now saying the Access Hollywood tape was faked. The only slight issue with that is that he's already apologized for saying the stuff on the tape.

Quote"Anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who I am. I said it, I was wrong and I apologize."

It boggles the mind

His supporters don't care. Tell them we were always at war with East Asia and they'll believe it. We live in a post-truth world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2017, 06:56:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 28, 2017, 06:23:12 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 28, 2017, 02:13:07 PM
Well - not only is Donnie not admitting it - he's now saying the Access Hollywood tape was faked. The only slight issue with that is that he's already apologized for saying the stuff on the tape.

Quote"Anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who I am. I said it, I was wrong and I apologize."

It boggles the mind

His supporters don't care. Tell them we were always at war with East Asia and they'll believe it. We live in a post-truth world.

As Trump famously said he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Ave and it wouldnt make any difference to his supporters.

Unless the Democrats wake up they wont make the gains they should on 2018.....did you see Nancy Pelosis performance on Sunday morning?  If Kelly Ann said that, people would be out with burning pitchforks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 28, 2017, 07:21:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2017, 06:56:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 28, 2017, 06:23:12 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 28, 2017, 02:13:07 PM
Well - not only is Donnie not admitting it - he's now saying the Access Hollywood tape was faked. The only slight issue with that is that he's already apologized for saying the stuff on the tape.

Quote"Anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who I am. I said it, I was wrong and I apologize."

It boggles the mind

His supporters don't care. Tell them we were always at war with East Asia and they'll believe it. We live in a post-truth world.

As Trump famously said he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Ave and it wouldnt make any difference to his supporters.

Unless the Democrats wake up they wont make the gains they should on 2018.....did you see Nancy Pelosis performance on Sunday morning?  If Kelly Ann said that, people would be out with burning pitchforks

Train wreck.

At least she was aware enough afterwards to strip Conyers of his seniority on the Judiciary committee, but that was a damaging performance which, as you say, would have been rightly pilloried had KA Conway given it.

Personally I think Franken and Conyers should step down. Let the GOP elect Moore and continue to love Trump if they want to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 28, 2017, 07:58:43 PM
Yup. Dems have to be squeaky clean if they're to stand a chance. Republicans can get away with murder since their core supporters have no morals, but Dems cannot get away with even the slightest transgression in front of an election ("but her emails!"). Sad but true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2017, 11:14:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:51:04 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:04:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 05:37:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 27, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

No illegals = no problem.

What part of that don't you understand?

Meanwhile, back in the real world (not the unobtainable, illegal-free utopia of your dreams), there ARE in fact millions of illegals who, short of some mass, NAZI-style round-up, are not going anywhere and present a scenario which has to be reckoned with by actual local authorities and public safety organizations.

They are illegals! In the real world they are illegally in the country and have no rights to be there at all at all, the number does not matter to me one iota, you spewing millions does not deflect from the fact they should not be in the country and are breaking the law of the country every day they are in the country llegally.

What's better for overall public safety and health stew?

A large body of people who are NOT afraid to go to the authorities, when necessary, or millions living completely in the shadows, afraid to report and cooperate and help nail criminals and law breakers, legal or otherwise?

Or the third option, the large body of people who were illegal go home to their respective countries and do not have to go to the American authorities because they are not there to go to the American authorities, I choose option 3.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on November 28, 2017, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:20:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 01:26:28 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 12:24:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 27, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: stew on November 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 26, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
Stew:
Was it a Democrat who done you out of playing corner forward for the Harps.
I am trying to figure out what made you so angry and that is the closest I am coming to a rational answer.

I have opinions on American politics, you know who I am, I have not a f**ks notion who you are, if you ever want to know anything about me just pm me!

I am not angry, I simply despise with all my heart what the left has done to America in the States, I am sick of transgender talk, the debt Obama put the country into, the middle east and ISIS as well as the liberal f**ks that run the sanctuary cities, I could go on and on.

I never played for the Harps seniors in corner forward because I was a back, I never played for the Hrps senior team for two reasons, i was not good enough and I preferred sawker and was much better at that than Gaelic.

I would be  a labour voter in England, not a single one of the f**kers on this Island north or south is worth voting for, in the States none of them are worth voting for either, that said a vote to deny Clinton was a vote well spent, even if that c**k Trump was the beneficiary!

Hope that answers your question anon!

The transgender issue features first on your list of gripes?? Seriously? Advocacy for inclusiveness and accommodation for transgender people? THAT'S a major problem for you?? Do you wish they'd f**k off back into the closet?

Transgenderism It is not remotely first, it was the first thing I wrote, there are far more pressing issues but I am sick and tired of hearing how f**king great and brave and wonderful yer man Jenner is now that he has baps and no balls! Winning awards for bravety etc! FFS wise up!!!

Still harping on about the debt while ignoring the conditions that led to it and offering no alternative whatsoever as to what should have been done (and ignoring the GOP's latest reimbrace of deficit spending once they're back in power).

I have offered alternatives as to what should have been done you clampett!!!  The GOP are as inept as the left, they are just less corrupt in my opinion, two sides of the same you know what blah blah b;lah!!!

The Middle East/ISIS... I'm not saying Obama handled that particular powder keg very well, but no blame from you for the GOP and Bush for what they did in Iraq which led directly to ISIS? Put it this way, what should Obama have done differently? The Iraqis wanted them out. They agreed under Bush to get out. The US people wanted them out.

The next time you cricitise  Obama will be the first time on this issue!

Sanctuary cities... what's your problem with that? Any stats to back up your problem? Do you think its better if illegal immigrants are afraid to go to or cooperate with the cops and other local authorities? Will THAT help public safety?

Illegal aliens should not be in the country ffs! I would prefer they were back in whatever country they are from, Irish included! Its not hard, the rule of law needs to apply to all not just the non supercitizens that the left love for votes!

My problem with sanctuary cities is that they give safe harbor to criminals that are not even supposed to be in the country, I know how hard illegal imigrants work, I have seen it first hand, the problem with illegals, or one of the problems is that they dont give a f**k about the law if it effects their illegal entry into the country, and then there are the sheep that support their lawbreaking, liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that! Why should I follow the rules when they dont have to??

Do you break the law when it suits YOU stew? Do you speed when driving? Have you ever drove when you had that one drink too many and shouldn't have? Have you you done a few jobs under the table, cash in hand, out of earshot of the taxman? Have you ever hired an outfit to do construction on your house who might be employing illegals? Have you ever ordered a pizza or chinese and had it delivered by some Latino on a bike or moped who is probably illegal? Do you delve into every company you do business with to check their status with regards illegals, or are like the rest of us who have more important things to worry about than whether your delivery dude or the lad blowing the leaves across the street is legal or not? Everyone can justify or rationalize skirting the rules at some point. Your "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!" is just your usual blinkered, baseless vitriol.

And on the sanctuary city issue itself, there are degrees. I would agree with you that criminals should be handed over to the immigration authorities after serving their sentence. I have no problem whatsoever with that and I'd be surprised if many do. I have no problem with legitimate, genuine suspects being kicked out. What I support is allowing immigrants to report to and cooperate with the cops and authorities without fear of ICE being called. I don't think ICE agents should be pursuing kids in school, or that a family should be afraid to report their abusive landlord for fear of the immigration authorities being called.

Are you really comparing speeding with living in a country you have no right to be in???????

I have drove too fast many times, I broke the law and when caught I got tickets and paid fines, I was held accountable, got points on my license and my insurance went up.

I got destroyed by a drunk driver when I was 26 and had to learn to read and write all over again due to a severe head injury from which I got epilepsy and a shit ton of seizures, so I do not drink and drive.

Have I done jobs for cash, yes is the simple answer, if I had got caught picking strawberrys and getting cash money and screwing the taxman I would have been fined, I did this from when I was 11 until I was 16 or so.

I had a company called Tycore Built build my home, they are a family owned business with zero illegals on their books, they are fantastic.

Baseless vitriol? Really, people like you plant seeds, you are dangerous, you try and equate minor infractions and major infractions as equal, they are not equal, liberals are great at making up pathetic arguments such as yours because they have to be, they have no moral ground to stand on in this issue, it is not hard, if you are in the country illegally you need to go back to were you came from, apply for residency and jump through the same hopps I and many other legal aliens did to get there and no amount of bullshit spewed forth from your pie hole will ever change that kid! None.

You are the one who was frothing at the mouth that "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!". Don't get angry at me for pointing out the obvious hypocrisy. We all bend the rules when it suits us.

And there's nothing pathetic about my arguments. They're pragmatic and based in the real world. Unless you're advocating mass round-ups, illegals are in the US to stay, and allowing them to engage with police and other authorities without fear of deportation and breaking up of families is the realistic AND moral position to hold.

There is no obvious hypocrisy 70, and I have never foamed at the mouth, I simply hate liberal politics in the states, it is repugnant to me, thats all.

There is no morality is illegality! Nop! Zip! Nada! Zilch!

You can squirm all you want, you can make out you have the moral high ground if you want but the fact is you advocate breaking the law to suit your political agenda and you have no morals on this issue!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 29, 2017, 02:16:08 AM
Quote from: stew on November 28, 2017, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 28, 2017, 02:01:23 PM

You are the one who was frothing at the mouth that "liberals love to break the law if it suits their narrative and I hate them for that!". Don't get angry at me for pointing out the obvious hypocrisy. We all bend the rules when it suits us.

And there's nothing pathetic about my arguments. They're pragmatic and based in the real world. Unless you're advocating mass round-ups, illegals are in the US to stay, and allowing them to engage with police and other authorities without fear of deportation and breaking up of families is the realistic AND moral position to hold.

There is no obvious hypocrisy 70, and I have never foamed at the mouth, I simply hate liberal politics in the states, it is repugnant to me, thats all.

There is no morality is illegality! Nop! Zip! Nada! Zilch!

You can squirm all you want, you can make out you have the moral high ground if you want but the fact is you advocate breaking the law to suit your political agenda and you have no morals on this issue!

Who's squirming stew? I'm giving you logical, factual responses. And I'm hardly the first one here to pass comment on your over-the-top angry tone when it comes to liberals. You're not very self-aware if you don't see how you come across. And my hypocrisy comment stands. You made a blanket comment about liberals and breaking the law when it suits them, as if it was a characteristic of that particular group.

As for morality and illegality, abortion is legal in the states. So is the death penalty in most states. Is support of those unequivocally moral?

Which is moral and which is immoral: Ireland which has no death penalty, or the US states that do?

So legal/illegal is NOT the same as moral/immoral. Sometimes the law is an ass.

It is rather noticeable that yourself and foxcommander have failed completely to address the logic of my position, instead clinging to silly black/white, legal/illegal, unrealistic absolutism.

And once again, advocating that people be allowed to approach the cops for help or to assist them, or that they seek help against exploitation by unscrupulous abusers or whatever, without fear of deportation, is a very moral position that helps real live individuals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 29, 2017, 04:02:05 AM
He's back to questioning Obama's birth certificate again. He's losing it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: haranguerer on November 29, 2017, 12:07:24 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42166663

Retweeting Jayda Fransen  :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 29, 2017, 03:01:39 PM
Matt Lauer gone from NBC's Today Show. There won't be an end I sight for this work place sexual misbehavior train
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 29, 2017, 03:40:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 29, 2017, 03:01:39 PM
Matt Lauer gone from NBC's Today Show. There won't be an end I sight for this work place sexual misbehavior train

Yeah it's pretty mental I still think we're in the early stages there is a lot more to come out over the coming months!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on November 29, 2017, 04:01:18 PM
Stew is 1 of them more American than an American type, forgets where he came from and from those around him probably went. Gets off the plane with his wide leg khaki chinos and his USA baseball cap. Makes me sick to my stomach.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 29, 2017, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 29, 2017, 03:40:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 29, 2017, 03:01:39 PM
Matt Lauer gone from NBC's Today Show. There won't be an end I sight for this work place sexual misbehavior train

Yeah it's pretty mental I still think we're in the early stages there is a lot more to come out over the coming months!

Talking with a friend (Trump supporter) this morning. He was rubbing his hands with glee with another one of the "dominos falling". President Domino is ok I guess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 29, 2017, 04:55:00 PM
Protesting will be thing of the Past in US?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/22/donald-trump-administration-punishing-dissent-protesters

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 29, 2017, 05:05:39 PM
Great opportunity for Trump to cement his friendship with his new far right Loyalist pals by tweeting in commemoration of the 20th anniversary of Billy Wright's death on December 27th.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 29, 2017, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year

You mean Ana Navarro (Republican) forgot Al Franken

https://twitter.com/ananavarro/status/935869957258309638
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 29, 2017, 08:53:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year

It's hilarious that after all these years of cheering Bill Clinton they've suddenly realised what he did.

I can say exactly the same about the current state of immigration. They might be cheering it now but in 20 years time when the place becomes a complete cesspit due to DACA and lax application of the law our democrat pals might actually wake up and regret this particular stance too.
Of course it will be too late. The only hope is to stop the rot now and deport them all. Just you wait and see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 29, 2017, 08:54:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 29, 2017, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year

You mean Ana Navarro (Republican) forgot Al Franken

https://twitter.com/ananavarro/status/935869957258309638

She's not a republican. She's a fat faux-GOP mouthpiece who works for CNN.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 29, 2017, 08:59:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 29, 2017, 08:54:09 PMShe's not a republican.

Fake Fox News! Sad!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 29, 2017, 09:04:04 PM
(https://static.straitstimes.com.sg/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/articles/2017/01/21/41239320_-_21_01_2017_-_us-president-donald-trump-attends-a-salute-to-our-armed-services.jpg?itok=DfNQDJZ9)

WRONG! CNN = Fake news. Gabriel. Sad!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 29, 2017, 10:17:00 PM
Poor foxkkkommander must be delighted that his beloved Donald has allied himself with far right Loyalist thugs.

No condemnation from him so far, I note.

I wonder why.  ;D





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 29, 2017, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year

In that spirit, I guess YOU forgot the likes of Ailes and O'Reilly and those other boys from Fox News. ;)

But at least the Dems are reckoning with their Clinton issues since things have come to a head. The GOP base (and ultimately the party) are still behind Trump and Moore...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 29, 2017, 11:01:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 29, 2017, 10:17:00 PM
Poor foxkkkommander must be delighted that his beloved Donald has allied himself with far right Loyalist thugs.

No condemnation from him so far, I note.

I wonder why.  ;D

You really expect any intellectual honesty from him? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 29, 2017, 11:10:48 PM
Stop feeding the troll, ya scabs!  >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2017, 01:15:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 29, 2017, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year

In that spirit, I guess YOU forgot the likes of Ailes and O'Reilly and those other boys from Fox News. ;)

But at least the Dems are reckoning with their Clinton issues since things have come to a head. The GOP base (and ultimately the party) are still behind Trump and Moore...

I didn't forget anything........I'm not the one posting up a one sided list!

And for the record, I have never defended Fox News or O Reilly......never once!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2017, 01:18:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 01:15:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 29, 2017, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year

In that spirit, I guess YOU forgot the likes of Ailes and O'Reilly and those other boys from Fox News. ;)

But at least the Dems are reckoning with their Clinton issues since things have come to a head. The GOP base (and ultimately the party) are still behind Trump and Moore...

I didn't forget anything........I'm not the one posting up a one sided list!

And for the record, I have never defended Fox News or O Reilly......never once!

How is the list one-sided?

The only two who would be considered conservative are Trump and Moore? So they forgot Franken. They also forgot O'Reilly and the other three or four lads from Fox News.

And did someone not already say that the list came from a Republican??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2017, 02:03:25 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/29/trump-account-retweets-anti-muslim-videos-of-british-far-right-leader

Trump retweeted a handful of anti-Muslim videos posted by the deputy leader of a British far-right group, prompting a rare condemnation of the US president by Theresa May whose official spokesperson called Trump's actions wrong.

One of the videos Trump highlighted to his 43.6 million Twitter followers from the feed of Jaydan Fransen of Britain First purported to show a group of Muslims pushing a boy off a roof. Another claimed to show a Muslim destroying a statue of the Virgin Mary, and a third claimed to show a Muslim immigrant hitting a Dutch boy on crutches.


The credibility of the last video was immediately undermined when the the Dutch embassy in the US said the perpetrator of the violent act in the video was born and raised in the Netherlands.

Theresa May's spokesman said on Wednesday: "Britain First seeks to divide communities by their use of hateful narratives that peddle lies and stoke tensions. They cause anxiety to law-abiding people. British people overwhelmingly reject the prejudiced rhetoric of the far right which is the antithesis of the values this country represents, decency, tolerance and respect."

By retweeting Britain First, Trump offends a decency he cannot understand | Brendan Cox

 

Read more

The US president retweeted the videos without comment, before turning to more familiar territory, suggesting a boycott of "Fake News CNN", celebrating the level of the stock market, and commenting on the firing of NBC anchor Matt Lauer.

Trump's decision to share the tweets was labelled "abhorrent, dangerous and a threat to our country" by the Labour party leader, Jeremy Corbyn, while several other members of parliament said his planned state visit should be cancelled.

Fransen, 31, is deputy leader of Britain First, a minor anti-Islam party with an estimated 1,000 followers that has had no electoral success. Fransen lost her deposit when she stood for parliament in a 2014 byelection, receiving just 56 votes.

She has been charged with using threatening or abusive language following an appearance at a far-right rally in Belfast this summer. She is due to appear at a Belfast court next month.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2017, 03:10:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 01:18:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 01:15:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 29, 2017, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year

In that spirit, I guess YOU forgot the likes of Ailes and O'Reilly and those other boys from Fox News. ;)

But at least the Dems are reckoning with their Clinton issues since things have come to a head. The GOP base (and ultimately the party) are still behind Trump and Moore...

I didn't forget anything........I'm not the one posting up a one sided list!

And for the record, I have never defended Fox News or O Reilly......never once!

How is the list one-sided?

The only two who would be considered conservative are Trump and Moore? So they forgot Franken. They also forgot O'Reilly and the other three or four lads from Fox News.

And did someone not already say that the list came from a Republican??


2 of the 3 of the people who didnt lose their jobs are Republicans.

She included the senile almost 90year old Democratic congressman from a safe blue seat who will probably never face any consequences due to health issues. If he resigns, theres no impact on the balance of power.....his constituency vote 80% + for the Democrat in the last 5 General Elections

Franken is by far the bigger and more relevant story here (by a factor of about 10) because of the National ramifications, yet she conveniently left him out of the equation

And as for her being a Republican......Google her and see what Republicans think of her.  I think she is a much a Republican as Roy Moore is a Christian
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2017, 08:06:30 AM
Donald J. Facepalm

@realDonaldTrump

.@Theresa_May, don't focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing just fine!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2017, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 03:10:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 01:18:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 01:15:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 29, 2017, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year

In that spirit, I guess YOU forgot the likes of Ailes and O'Reilly and those other boys from Fox News. ;)

But at least the Dems are reckoning with their Clinton issues since things have come to a head. The GOP base (and ultimately the party) are still behind Trump and Moore...

I didn't forget anything........I'm not the one posting up a one sided list!

And for the record, I have never defended Fox News or O Reilly......never once!

How is the list one-sided?

The only two who would be considered conservative are Trump and Moore? So they forgot Franken. They also forgot O'Reilly and the other three or four lads from Fox News.

And did someone not already say that the list came from a Republican??


2 of the 3 of the people who didnt lose their jobs are Republicans.

She included the senile almost 90year old Democratic congressman from a safe blue seat who will probably never face any consequences due to health issues. If he resigns, theres no impact on the balance of power.....his constituency vote 80% + for the Democrat in the last 5 General Elections

Franken is by far the bigger and more relevant story here (by a factor of about 10) because of the National ramifications, yet she conveniently left him out of the equation

And as for her being a Republican......Google her and see what Republicans think of her.  I think she is a much a Republican as Roy Moore is a Christian

Come on, it's not like Franken is yesterday's news and no one knows about him. You're looking for bias where none exists.

Anyway, what would Republicans think of YOU, whitey? You don't like Trump or Moore either. Does that make you a bleeding heart liberal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2017, 11:13:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2017, 08:06:30 AM
Donald J. Facepalm

@realDonaldTrump

.@Theresa_May, don't focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing just fine!

Just...can't.... let...any... criticism...legitimate or not... pass!

You can just picture him fuming away, stewing over May making him (in his mind) look bad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 30, 2017, 11:48:18 AM
That was his 2nd attempt at it as well. He tagged the wrong Theresa May first time around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2017, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 11:13:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2017, 08:06:30 AM
Donald J. Facepalm

@realDonaldTrump

.@Theresa_May, don't focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing just fine!

Just...can't.... let...any... criticism...legitimate or not... pass!

You can just picture him fuming away, stewing over May making him (in his mind) look bad.
In Feb the UK speaker of Paliment called him racist and said no state visit. The Tory press savaged him.  Now it is very interesting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TabClear on November 30, 2017, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 30, 2017, 11:48:18 AM
That was his 2nd attempt at it as well. He tagged the wrong Theresa May first time around.

Christ, lets hope he can operate the nuke codes better than twitter.

The man is a clown. Its like J70 said, he cannot let anything go, always has to have the last word and logic or any semblance of sense is completely irrelevant . There are a few posters on this site that are the same. If we could get The Don to register on here and point him in their direction with a  bit of luck both parties could talk shite to each other and be too busy to annoy anyone else!.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
See Franken (Stein) has a new accuser......now up to five

If Moore is unfit (and I think he is) to serve.....so is Franken
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2017, 03:36:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
See Franken (Stein) has a new accuser......now up to five

If Moore is unfit (and I think he is) to serve.....so is Franken

Yep, he should resign, although unless I've heard wrong, at least Franken's were adults and not school kids.

What's with the reference to Trump's slur BTW?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2017, 04:04:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 03:36:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
See Franken (Stein) has a new accuser......now up to five

If Moore is unfit (and I think he is) to serve.....so is Franken

Yep, he should resign, although unless I've heard wrong, at least Franken's were adults and not school kids.

What's with the reference to Trump's slur BTW?

I didnt know Trump had copyrighted the term Frankenstein.....in fact I never even heard him say it, but I wouldnt be surprised if he did

And for the recors, Elizabeth Warren was called Fauxchontas or Pocahontas for years in Boston, long before Trump started using it. It started in 2011 when she and Scott Brown were competing for the MA Senate seat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 30, 2017, 04:23:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 04:04:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 03:36:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
See Franken (Stein) has a new accuser......now up to five

If Moore is unfit (and I think he is) to serve.....so is Franken

Yep, he should resign, although unless I've heard wrong, at least Franken's were adults and not school kids.

What's with the reference to Trump's slur BTW?

I didnt know Trump had copyrighted the term Frankenstein.....in fact I never even heard him say it, but I wouldnt be surprised if he did

And for the recors, Elizabeth Warren was called Fauxchontas or Pocahontas for years in Boston, long before Trump started using it. It started in 2011 when she and Scott Brown were competing for the MA Senate seat

What's the relevance here? He's the President of the United States of America! He threw it out in front of a native American group receiving an honor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2017, 04:25:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 04:04:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 03:36:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
See Franken (Stein) has a new accuser......now up to five

If Moore is unfit (and I think he is) to serve.....so is Franken

Yep, he should resign, although unless I've heard wrong, at least Franken's were adults and not school kids.

What's with the reference to Trump's slur BTW?

I didnt know Trump had copyrighted the term Frankenstein.....in fact I never even heard him say it, but I wouldnt be surprised if he did

And for the recors, Elizabeth Warren was called Fauxchontas or Pocahontas for years in Boston, long before Trump started using it. It started in 2011 when she and Scott Brown were competing for the MA Senate seat

Just a bit strange, that's all, given your stated contempt for Trump and his breath taking hypocrisy in going after Franken like that when he himself stands accused of far worse and is on the record time and again over his attitude towards women.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2017, 04:25:46 PM
Pelosi is calling on Conyers to resign. That should be that for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2017, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 04:25:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 04:04:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 03:36:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
See Franken (Stein) has a new accuser......now up to five

If Moore is unfit (and I think he is) to serve.....so is Franken

Yep, he should resign, although unless I've heard wrong, at least Franken's were adults and not school kids.

What's with the reference to Trump's slur BTW?

I didnt know Trump had copyrighted the term Frankenstein.....in fact I never even heard him say it, but I wouldnt be surprised if he did

And for the recors, Elizabeth Warren was called Fauxchontas or Pocahontas for years in Boston, long before Trump started using it. It started in 2011 when she and Scott Brown were competing for the MA Senate seat

Just a bit strange, that's all, given your stated contempt for Trump and his breath taking hypocrisy in going after Franken like that when he himself stands accused of far worse and is on the record time and again over his attitude towards women.

As I said.....I had no idea Trump had ever used that word. I pretty much turn off and tune out whenever I hear him speak.

Dont be trying to tie me to Trump because.  You are giving him way too much credit if you think he came up with that on his own.....hes never had an original thought in his life
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2017, 04:34:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 04:25:46 PM
Pelosi is calling on Conyers to resign. That should be that for him.

Big fvckin deal...hes almost 90 and in the safest of safe blue seats. 

Lets wait and see if she askes Franken to resign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 30, 2017, 04:42:37 PM
McCain supporting the tax bill means it's looking like the good times are gonna roll for the swamp!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2017, 05:11:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2017, 04:34:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 04:25:46 PM
Pelosi is calling on Conyers to resign. That should be that for him.

Big fvckin deal...hes almost 90 and in the safest of safe blue seats. 

Lets wait and see if she askes Franken to resign?

I didn't say it was a big deal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on November 30, 2017, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 04:25:46 PM
Pelosi is calling on Conyers to resign. That should be that for him.

This "icon" might not even make it as far as the ethic committee! That is some turnaround from what Pelosi was talking about on Sunday. The dirty old man still is holding out though.

edit: He's now in hospital with "stress". LOL. Must have taken notes from Pat Hickey.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/b779a832d37ed018ebe72e73eef0164b/tenor.gif?itemid=9109250)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2017, 08:14:17 PM
I guess I should know better - I'll delete my post. You do the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 01, 2017, 08:56:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 08:14:17 PM
I guess I should know better - I'll delete my post. You do the same.

Nice job San Francisco!

There is no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cess pitts, the seven time felony loser gets to go back to Mexico after killing a young American woman who was simply out for a waik on a pier with her dad before an illegal alien decided to fire a gun that just happened to be sitting under his swivel chair, not his gun mind you!

He gets deported for the 7th time now, great deterrent that and well played sir, if you want to kill yanks simply go to a sanctuary city, it will be the Presidents fault, just sk the defence attorney! f**king disgraceful decision.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2017, 11:15:31 AM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2017, 08:56:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 08:14:17 PM
I guess I should know better - I'll delete my post. You do the same.

Nice job San Francisco!

There is no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cess pitts, the seven time felony loser gets to go back to Mexico after killing a young American woman who was simply out for a waik on a pier with her dad before an illegal alien decided to fire a gun that just happened to be sitting under his swivel chair, not his gun mind you!

He gets deported for the 7th time now, great deterrent that and well played sir, if you want to kill yanks simply go to a sanctuary city, it will be the Presidents fault, just sk the defence attorney! f**king disgraceful decision.

Don't be so f**king hysterical.

The city didn't prove its case that it was murder or even manslaughter. Had he been a homeless American, would you be crying "no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cesspits"??

Where's the "justice for American people" for the thousands of Americans killed each year by gun-toting fellow Americans thanks to the insane gun policies of YOUR side of the political aisle?

As to the sanctuary city part and his being on the street, I've already told you I agree that illegal felons should be deported.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 01, 2017, 11:32:36 AM
Was watching the Tump doc on TV last night and they said this was the moment that Trump decide to get in the election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4

Who's laughing now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2017, 11:36:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 01, 2017, 11:32:36 AM
Was watching the Tump doc on TV last night and they said this was the moment that Trump decide to get in the election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4

Who's laughing now

Gives you some insight on the character of the man and his megalomania, if correct, doesn't it?

Obama was well within his rights to go after Trump and his birther bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 01, 2017, 11:51:40 AM
Deserved it but Obama went on  a bit too long.  In the end it was almost like bludgening a baby seal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on December 01, 2017, 12:03:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSuregWhlWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSuregWhlWk)
Trump v Talking Heads - seems to be the only thing that makes any sense about him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 01, 2017, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 11:15:31 AM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2017, 08:56:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 08:14:17 PM
I guess I should know better - I'll delete my post. You do the same.

Nice job San Francisco!

There is no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cess pitts, the seven time felony loser gets to go back to Mexico after killing a young American woman who was simply out for a waik on a pier with her dad before an illegal alien decided to fire a gun that just happened to be sitting under his swivel chair, not his gun mind you!

He gets deported for the 7th time now, great deterrent that and well played sir, if you want to kill yanks simply go to a sanctuary city, it will be the Presidents fault, just sk the defence attorney! f**king disgraceful decision.

Don't be so f**king hysterical.

I am not hysterical, I am appalled!

The city didn't prove its case that it was murder or even manslaughter. Had he been a homeless American, would you be crying "no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cesspits"??

He admitted finding the gun under his swivel chair, he admitted firing it, he admitted to throwing said gun in the harbor and he admitted running away as per the video that was taken of him doing so, he got away because he was smart enough to be in a sanctuary city! You are using meaningless semantics to deflect from the fact that sanctuary cities need to go away because they let a 6 time loser go and he killed an innocent girl, wrecked her family and the best you can do is tell me not to be hysterical, riddle me this, if that was your sister he shot dead, or daughter he shot dead, how would you fell about it?????

Where's the "justice for American people" for the thousands of Americans killed each year by gun-toting fellow Americans thanks to the insane gun policies of YOUR side of the political aisle?

I do not have a side you idiot, I am no republican, I hate the NRA with a passion and one of the few things I agree with the left on is gun control, quit being hysterical!

As to the sanctuary city part and his being on the street, I've already told you I agree that illegal felons should be deported.

How big of you! how about sanctuary cities need to become non sanctuary cities because they are a disgrace to the rest of the country!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2017, 01:31:29 PM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2017, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 11:15:31 AM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2017, 08:56:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 08:14:17 PM
I guess I should know better - I'll delete my post. You do the same.

Nice job San Francisco!

There is no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cess pitts, the seven time felony loser gets to go back to Mexico after killing a young American woman who was simply out for a waik on a pier with her dad before an illegal alien decided to fire a gun that just happened to be sitting under his swivel chair, not his gun mind you!

He gets deported for the 7th time now, great deterrent that and well played sir, if you want to kill yanks simply go to a sanctuary city, it will be the Presidents fault, just sk the defence attorney! f**king disgraceful decision.

Don't be so f**king hysterical.

I am not hysterical, I am appalled!

The city didn't prove its case that it was murder or even manslaughter. Had he been a homeless American, would you be crying "no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cesspits"??

He admitted finding the gun under his swivel chair, he admitted firing it, he admitted to throwing said gun in the harbor and he admitted running away as per the video that was taken of him doing so, he got away because he was smart enough to be in a sanctuary city! You are using meaningless semantics to deflect from the fact that sanctuary cities need to go away because they let a 6 time loser go and he killed an innocent girl, wrecked her family and the best you can do is tell me not to be hysterical, riddle me this, if that was your sister he shot dead, or daughter he shot dead, how would you fell about it?????

Where's the "justice for American people" for the thousands of Americans killed each year by gun-toting fellow Americans thanks to the insane gun policies of YOUR side of the political aisle?

I do not have a side you idiot, I am no republican, I hate the NRA with a passion and one of the few things I agree with the left on is gun control, quit being hysterical!

As to the sanctuary city part and his being on the street, I've already told you I agree that illegal felons should be deported.

How big of you! how about sanctuary cities need to become non sanctuary cities because they are a disgrace to the rest of the country!

Did they charge him with the correct offense?

Seems pretty similar to the George Zimmerman aquittal.....no doubt he did it, but prosecutorial over reach led to him being charged with the wrong crime

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2017, 01:32:57 PM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2017, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 11:15:31 AM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2017, 08:56:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 08:14:17 PM
I guess I should know better - I'll delete my post. You do the same.

Nice job San Francisco!

There is no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cess pitts, the seven time felony loser gets to go back to Mexico after killing a young American woman who was simply out for a waik on a pier with her dad before an illegal alien decided to fire a gun that just happened to be sitting under his swivel chair, not his gun mind you!

He gets deported for the 7th time now, great deterrent that and well played sir, if you want to kill yanks simply go to a sanctuary city, it will be the Presidents fault, just sk the defence attorney! f**king disgraceful decision.

Don't be so f**king hysterical.

I am not hysterical, I am appalled!

The city didn't prove its case that it was murder or even manslaughter. Had he been a homeless American, would you be crying "no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cesspits"??

He admitted finding the gun under his swivel chair, he admitted firing it, he admitted to throwing said gun in the harbor and he admitted running away as per the video that was taken of him doing so, he got away because he was smart enough to be in a sanctuary city! You are using meaningless semantics to deflect from the fact that sanctuary cities need to go away because they let a 6 time loser go and he killed an innocent girl, wrecked her family and the best you can do is tell me not to be hysterical, riddle me this, if that was your sister he shot dead, or daughter he shot dead, how would you fell about it?????

Where's the "justice for American people" for the thousands of Americans killed each year by gun-toting fellow Americans thanks to the insane gun policies of YOUR side of the political aisle?

I do not have a side you idiot, I am no republican, I hate the NRA with a passion and one of the few things I agree with the left on is gun control, quit being hysterical!

As to the sanctuary city part and his being on the street, I've already told you I agree that illegal felons should be deported.

How big of you! how about sanctuary cities need to become non sanctuary cities because they are a disgrace to the rest of the country!

1. I'm sorry, are you saying that the city prosecutors conspired with the judge and jury or something to let him get away with murder? Because how else does your statement that "he got away because he was smart enough to be in a sanctuary city" make any sense?
2. If not, what does the lack of conviction have to do with the sanctuary city status of San Francisco?
3. If he had been a illegal alien who helped save the life of an American citizen, would you be using that as a political football to advocate FOR sanctuary cities?
4. I'm calm as always stew, but the point I was making regarding conservatives (which you claim to be, even if you disagree on this single issue) and guns is that the only time they're ever concerned about gun violence is when there's a muslim or illegal alien with their finger on the trigger, which amounts to a miniscule proportion of the annual toll.
5. We've been through my rationale for my stance on sanctuary cities over the past few days. You want to rehash it AGAIN? Its perfectly logical and moral to be for some policies while drawing the line at protecting criminals.
6. You've been on the board a very long time - learn to use the quote function!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

The fact the authorities didn't detain him when they were supposed to also looks to be a problem. As discusses here ad nauseum I think we can all agree that immigrant criminals shouldn't be in the country so I'm not quite sure what the sanctuary cities thing has to do with it. Would the wall have stopped him getting in again?

Horrible for the family who have to deal with the death of their loved one and then have the whole thing turned into a political football!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 01:58:43 PM
Quote from: stew on December 01, 2017, 08:56:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2017, 08:14:17 PM
I guess I should know better - I'll delete my post. You do the same.

Nice job San Francisco!

There is no justice for American people in these sanctuary city cess pitts, the seven time felony loser gets to go back to Mexico after killing a young American woman who was simply out for a waik on a pier with her dad before an illegal alien decided to fire a gun that just happened to be sitting under his swivel chair, not his gun mind you!

He gets deported for the 7th time now, great deterrent that and well played sir, if you want to kill yanks simply go to a sanctuary city, it will be the Presidents fault, just sk the defence attorney! f**king disgraceful decision.

I hope that all liberals who support sanctuary cities are very proud of themselves today.
Kate Steinle died because of your smug sense of worth. Never forget that.

It took the defence attorney less than 30 seconds to mention Jeff Sessions, Mike Pence and President Trump in his victory speech. Absolutely disgraceful. You've just walked out of a trial where your client has got away with murder and you're now attacking the government to get more leverage for people who shouldn't be in the country in the first place. What an arrogant p***k. His sidekick wasn't much better. Don't pretend to have sympathy for the family you've just help destroy again.

It's not surprising that a verdict like this was returned in San Francisco. A city filled with degenerates and deviants.
The message to illegals is that you now can shoot with impunity. Break any law you want. Why bother following rules. That is absolutely crazy.

I'm actually surprised he wasn't charged with attempted murder of a seal. That might be one cause the f**king liberals would actually get behind. Twats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:05:20 PM
Sounds like Flynn has got a deal to plead guilty for a reduced sentence. . . I wonder what he's given Mueller??!!

There's a few twists and turns in this investigation yet it looks like!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!

Yep, that's why they skimmed through the evidence and feigned discussion and came to a quick decision within a mere six days!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 03:23:32 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m8x5KPBaVvw/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!

Yep, that's why they skimmed through the evidence and feigned discussion and came to a quick decision within a mere six days!

Yes. If you want to believe that jurors hadn't already made their minds up based on their political beliefs then I think you're seriously naive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!

Yep, that's why they skimmed through the evidence and feigned discussion and came to a quick decision within a mere six days!

Yes. If you want to believe that jurors hadn't already made their minds up based on their political beliefs then I think you're seriously naive.

OK, I'll bite, one more time.

Six days of debate...

Maybe, unlike people like YOU, they were able to separate the FACTS of the case from the political hype and implications surrounding it i.e. they made their judgment based on the evidence before them concerning whether this man intended to or was negligent in killing that poor woman, not on the Trump/Fox News political campaign about sanctuary cities.

Sanctuary city policy was not on trial here. This man picking up a gun and causing the death of this woman was. Completely separate issues.

The man may or may not be really guilty. The cops or the prosecution may have fucked up the case. The jury may have been biased. The judge might have made a balls of things. It would not be the first time for any of those scenarios, amazingly. Or everyone may have played brilliantly and they just couldn't convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. I have no idea, and unless you have something to disclose or you've been watching every utterance and proceeding in this trial, neither do you.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll not have to wait too long before the various people are on the morning news shows selling their stories.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:12:10 PM
Hey FakeNewsFox, your thoughts?

QuoteFormer Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn will plead guilty Friday to "willfully and knowingly" making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements" to the FBI about conversations with Russia's ambassador, according to court documents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:13:51 PM
and

Quote.@BrianRoss: Mike Flynn is "prepared to testify" against Trump, his family, & the campaign, including Trump ordering him to talk to Russians

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:40:28 PM
Fox?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP-YlEcW4AADwWs.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 01, 2017, 04:42:05 PM
Well now,

"prepared to testify that the candidate Donald Trump directed him to contact the Russians. Will testify against Trump personally, his family and senior members of the White House."

don't that put the cat amongst the pigeons...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:43:57 PM
I'm probably missing something really obvious here. I understand that he's admitting that he lied.  However, what is it that he's actually supposed to have said or done to the Russian ambassador? Was it not some chit chat about reacting to sanctions? Is that not allowed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:43:57 PM
I'm probably missing something really obvious here. I understand that he's admitting that he lied.  However, what is it that he's actually supposed to have said or done to the Russian ambassador? Was it not some chit chat about reacting to sanctions? Is that not allowed?

No - it isn't
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2017, 04:48:04 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:40:28 PM
Fox?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP-YlEcW4AADwWs.jpg)

Best interest of his family...?

Are they using Junior as leverage?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:43:57 PM
I'm probably missing something really obvious here. I understand that he's admitting that he lied.  However, what is it that he's actually supposed to have said or done to the Russian ambassador? Was it not some chit chat about reacting to sanctions? Is that not allowed?

No - it isn't
Why not?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2017, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:43:57 PM
I'm probably missing something really obvious here. I understand that he's admitting that he lied.  However, what is it that he's actually supposed to have said or done to the Russian ambassador? Was it not some chit chat about reacting to sanctions? Is that not allowed?

No - it isn't
Why not?

You don't think conducting diplomacy contradictory to the policies and actions of the sitting administration is a problem?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 05:01:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:43:57 PM
I'm probably missing something really obvious here. I understand that he's admitting that he lied.  However, what is it that he's actually supposed to have said or done to the Russian ambassador? Was it not some chit chat about reacting to sanctions? Is that not allowed?

No - it isn't
Why not?

You don't think conducting diplomacy contradictory to the policies and actions of the sitting administration is a problem?
I'm not saying anything. I'm asking.

When did these conversations take place? Was it the period between the election and the inauguration? Weren't they related to sanctions that Obama had put in place?

What I've read, and it's only what I've read, is that Flynn said that "he did not ask Russia's ambassador to the US to refrain from escalating the situation after Washington had imposed sanctions on Russia" and "that he did not recall the Russian ambassador telling him that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to US sanctions as a result of his request".

Is this a huge deal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2017, 05:08:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 05:01:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 04:43:57 PM
I'm probably missing something really obvious here. I understand that he's admitting that he lied.  However, what is it that he's actually supposed to have said or done to the Russian ambassador? Was it not some chit chat about reacting to sanctions? Is that not allowed?

No - it isn't
Why not?

You don't think conducting diplomacy contradictory to the policies and actions of the sitting administration is a problem?
I'm not saying anything. I'm asking.

When did these conversations take place? Was it the period between the election and the inauguration? Weren't they related to sanctions that Obama had put in place?

What I've read, and it's only what I've read, is that Flynn said that "he did not ask Russia's ambassador to the US to refrain from escalating the situation after Washington had imposed sanctions on Russia" and "that he did not recall the Russian ambassador telling him that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to US sanctions as a result of his request".

Is this a huge deal?

Big enough that Flynn is cooperating after taking a guilty plea for lying to the FBI. I guess it ultimately depends on what that cooperation entails.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 05:14:48 PM
True. Just thought I was missing something given the way it's such a big story.

I imagine it'll amount to very little.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 05:17:04 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 01, 2017, 05:14:48 PM
True. Just thought I was missing something given the way it's such a big story.

I imagine it'll amount to very little.

I imagine you'll be incorrect

(https://s2.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20170604&t=2&i=1187527978&r=LYNXMPED530PG&w=1280)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 01, 2017, 05:20:42 PM
I've asked some lawyer friends of mine whether anything illegal--other than lying to intelligence agencies/government officials--has happened.  Their answer was no.  Unless they received something of value from Russian agencies, and it isn't clear that information about Clinton counts as that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 01, 2017, 05:22:01 PM
Anyway, once the republicans get their tax cut, they'll probably be more willing to countenance impeachment, or perhaps resignation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 01, 2017, 05:37:02 PM
25th amendment - section 4

by then they will all be so rich they won't care...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 05:49:28 PM
Whitey?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/01/blake-farenthold-taxpayer-funds-sexual-harassment-274458

QuoteRep. Blake Farenthold used taxpayer money to settle a sexual harassment claim brought by his former spokesman — the only known sitting member of Congress to have used a little-known congressional account to pay an accuser, sources told POLITICO.

Lauren Greene, the Texas Republican's former communications director, sued her boss in December 2014 over allegations of gender discrimination, sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment.

Greene claimed in the lawsuit that another Farenthold aide told her the lawmaker had "sexual fantasies" and "wet dreams" about Greene. She also claimed that Farenthold "regularly drank to excess" and told her in February 2014 that he was "estranged from his wife and had not had sex with her in years."

When she complained about comments Farenthold and a male staffer made to her, Greene said the congressman improperly fired her. She filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in the District of Columbia, but the case was later dropped after both parties reached a private settlement.

No information was ever released on that agreement.

House Administration Committee Chairman Gregg Harper (R-Miss.) told GOP lawmakers in a closed-door Friday morning meeting that only one House office in the past five years had used an Office of Compliance account to settle a sexual harassment complaint. Harper said in that one instance, the settlement totaled $84,000.

(https://images1.dallasobserver.com/imager/u/original/7147334/blake.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 01, 2017, 06:08:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 05:49:28 PM
Whitey?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/01/blake-farenthold-taxpayer-funds-sexual-harassment-274458

QuoteRep. Blake Farenthold used taxpayer money to settle a sexual harassment claim brought by his former spokesman — the only known sitting member of Congress to have used a little-known congressional account to pay an accuser, sources told POLITICO.

Lauren Greene, the Texas Republican's former communications director, sued her boss in December 2014 over allegations of gender discrimination, sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment.

Greene claimed in the lawsuit that another Farenthold aide told her the lawmaker had "sexual fantasies" and "wet dreams" about Greene. She also claimed that Farenthold "regularly drank to excess" and told her in February 2014 that he was "estranged from his wife and had not had sex with her in years."

When she complained about comments Farenthold and a male staffer made to her, Greene said the congressman improperly fired her. She filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in the District of Columbia, but the case was later dropped after both parties reached a private settlement.

No information was ever released on that agreement.

House Administration Committee Chairman Gregg Harper (R-Miss.) told GOP lawmakers in a closed-door Friday morning meeting that only one House office in the past five years had used an Office of Compliance account to settle a sexual harassment complaint. Harper said in that one instance, the settlement totaled $84,000.

(https://images1.dallasobserver.com/imager/u/original/7147334/blake.jpg)
that blonde wan looks fairly game
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2017, 06:10:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 05:49:28 PM
Whitey?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/01/blake-farenthold-taxpayer-funds-sexual-harassment-274458

QuoteRep. Blake Farenthold used taxpayer money to settle a sexual harassment claim brought by his former spokesman — the only known sitting member of Congress to have used a little-known congressional account to pay an accuser, sources told POLITICO.

Lauren Greene, the Texas Republican's former communications director, sued her boss in December 2014 over allegations of gender discrimination, sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment.

Greene claimed in the lawsuit that another Farenthold aide told her the lawmaker had "sexual fantasies" and "wet dreams" about Greene. She also claimed that Farenthold "regularly drank to excess" and told her in February 2014 that he was "estranged from his wife and had not had sex with her in years."

When she complained about comments Farenthold and a male staffer made to her, Greene said the congressman improperly fired her. She filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in the District of Columbia, but the case was later dropped after both parties reached a private settlement.

No information was ever released on that agreement.

House Administration Committee Chairman Gregg Harper (R-Miss.) told GOP lawmakers in a closed-door Friday morning meeting that only one House office in the past five years had used an Office of Compliance account to settle a sexual harassment complaint. Harper said in that one instance, the settlement totaled $84,000.

(https://images1.dallasobserver.com/imager/u/original/7147334/blake.jpg)

The round boy in the pyjamas?

Don't all rush at once ladies!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 06:11:33 PM
Of course J70
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2017, 08:46:40 PM
Jaysus Chrisht

Flynn prepared to testify against Trump

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/01/michael-flynn-shares-information-senior-trump-official-fbi-pleading/

Plus

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/01/us/politics/michael-flynn-guilty-russia-investigation.html

Mr. Flynn's pre-inauguration discussions with Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, were part of a coordinated effort by aides running Mr. Trump's transition into the White House to create foreign policy before they were in power, documents released as part of Mr. Flynn's plea agreement show. Their efforts undermined the existing policy of President Barack Obama and flouted a warning from a senior Obama administration official to stop meddling in foreign affairs until after the inauguration.

Court documents do not disclose what Mr. Trump knew about Mr. Flynn's discussions. But in at least one instance, federal prosecutors say, Mr. Flynn was directed by a "very senior member" of the presidential transition team. Mr. Trump's lawyers believe that unnamed aide was Mr. Trump's son-in-law and close adviser, Jared Kushner, according to a lawyer briefed on the matter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2017, 09:16:08 PM
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/business/trump-benefit-tax-cuts.html

President Trump likes to argue that the tax-reform legislation hurtling through Congress this week will protect low- and middle-income households, "not the wealthy and well connected." He puts himself forward as Exhibit A.

"This is going to cost me a fortune," he said on Wednesday in Missouri. "This is not good for me."

So surely at least a few of the most egregious loopholes that benefit Mr. Trump and real estate developers like him will be closed.

Not in the slightest.

In fact, the proposals seem almost tailor-made to enrich the president and people like him.

"Commercial real estate came out essentially unscathed," said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum, a conservative advocacy group. Real estate developers "didn't lose anything they care about," and they got even more breaks, like a shorter depreciation schedule in the Senate tax bill, Mr. Holtz-Eakin pointed out.

Mr. Trump still has not released his tax returns, so it's impossible to know to what extent he would personally benefit from the legislation. But there's little doubt that he would.

"Lower pass-through rates and the repeal of the alternative minimum tax — those two alone are so hugely beneficial to Trump that I have trouble imagining any way that he wouldn't come out ahead," said Steve Wamhoff, senior fellow for federal tax policy at the nonpartisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. (The pass-through reference involves income that typically comes from partnerships and limited liability companies.)


Not only that, but rental income, royalty payments and licensing fees — some of the president's major sources of income — get especially favorable treatment under new rates for pass-through income. (Mr. Trump's assets include more than 500 pass-through partnerships and limited liability companies.)

"Trump will make out like a bandit on all the big items," said Steven M. Rosenthal, a senior fellow at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 01, 2017, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!

Yep, that's why they skimmed through the evidence and feigned discussion and came to a quick decision within a mere six days!

Yes. If you want to believe that jurors hadn't already made their minds up based on their political beliefs then I think you're seriously naive.

OK, I'll bite, one more time.

Six days of debate...

Maybe, unlike people like YOU, they were able to separate the FACTS of the case from the political hype and implications surrounding it i.e. they made their judgment based on the evidence before them concerning whether this man intended to or was negligent in killing that poor woman, not on the Trump/Fox News political campaign about sanctuary cities.

Sanctuary city policy was not on trial here. This man picking up a gun and causing the death of this woman was. Completely separate issues.

The man may or may not be really guilty. The cops or the prosecution may have fucked up the case. The jury may have been biased. The judge might have made a balls of things. It would not be the first time for any of those scenarios, amazingly. Or everyone may have played brilliantly and they just couldn't convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. I have no idea, and unless you have something to disclose or you've been watching every utterance and proceeding in this trial, neither do you.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll not have to wait too long before the various people are on the morning news shows selling their stories.
whar sort of a city releases a felon illegal immigrant onto the street to commit more crimes when ice has told them to keep him locked up so he can be deported after he just served a sentence for drug possession,SAN Francisco is now a lawless city it was once a beautiful city but now its a kip full of homeless bums shitting and pissing everywhere breaking into cars and harassing the public with no repurcussions  . The county sheriff who released this guy should be charged and it's all because they want to give the middle finger to trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 09:40:46 PM
Big crowd at the tree-lighting ceremony last night

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP633Y_X4AAmDa1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 02, 2017, 12:49:13 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 05:49:28 PM
Whitey?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/01/blake-farenthold-taxpayer-funds-sexual-harassment-274458

QuoteRep. Blake Farenthold used taxpayer money to settle a sexual harassment claim brought by his former spokesman — the only known sitting member of Congress to have used a little-known congressional account to pay an accuser, sources told POLITICO.

Lauren Greene, the Texas Republican's former communications director, sued her boss in December 2014 over allegations of gender discrimination, sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment.

Greene claimed in the lawsuit that another Farenthold aide told her the lawmaker had "sexual fantasies" and "wet dreams" about Greene. She also claimed that Farenthold "regularly drank to excess" and told her in February 2014 that he was "estranged from his wife and had not had sex with her in years."

When she complained about comments Farenthold and a male staffer made to her, Greene said the congressman improperly fired her. She filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in the District of Columbia, but the case was later dropped after both parties reached a private settlement.

No information was ever released on that agreement.

House Administration Committee Chairman Gregg Harper (R-Miss.) told GOP lawmakers in a closed-door Friday morning meeting that only one House office in the past five years had used an Office of Compliance account to settle a sexual harassment complaint. Harper said in that one instance, the settlement totaled $84,000.

(https://images1.dallasobserver.com/imager/u/original/7147334/blake.jpg)

Are you bringing this story to my attention, or are you implying I resemble someone in the photo?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 02, 2017, 12:26:57 PM
Tax bill passes 51-49

If you earn more than 344k pa in the US you just got an early Christmas present.

If you didn't, well tee hee and screw you!

The Republican pretty which wants to decrease the deficit, has just added 1.5 trillion dollars to it.

But perhaps they are right on trickle down economics for the first time in human existence, maybe all the other attempts at it were wrong, and this bill has nailed it, despite no one reading the bill before voting for it....

Of course the fact that it passed yesterday when kushner Flynn pled guilty was a huge coincidence.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 02, 2017, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 01, 2017, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!

Yep, that's why they skimmed through the evidence and feigned discussion and came to a quick decision within a mere six days!

Yes. If you want to believe that jurors hadn't already made their minds up based on their political beliefs then I think you're seriously naive.

OK, I'll bite, one more time.

Six days of debate...

Maybe, unlike people like YOU, they were able to separate the FACTS of the case from the political hype and implications surrounding it i.e. they made their judgment based on the evidence before them concerning whether this man intended to or was negligent in killing that poor woman, not on the Trump/Fox News political campaign about sanctuary cities.

Sanctuary city policy was not on trial here. This man picking up a gun and causing the death of this woman was. Completely separate issues.

The man may or may not be really guilty. The cops or the prosecution may have fucked up the case. The jury may have been biased. The judge might have made a balls of things. It would not be the first time for any of those scenarios, amazingly. Or everyone may have played brilliantly and they just couldn't convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. I have no idea, and unless you have something to disclose or you've been watching every utterance and proceeding in this trial, neither do you.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll not have to wait too long before the various people are on the morning news shows selling their stories.
whar sort of a city releases a felon illegal immigrant onto the street to commit more crimes when ice has told them to keep him locked up so he can be deported after he just served a sentence for drug possession,SAN Francisco is now a lawless city it was once a beautiful city but now its a kip full of homeless bums shitting and pissing everywhere breaking into cars and harassing the public with no repurcussions  . The county sheriff who released this guy should be charged and it's all because they want to give the middle finger to trump

Apart from his scaremongering using this case, what does it have to with Trump?
What charges should be brought against the sheriff? Have the people of SF not already got rid of him because of this killing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 02, 2017, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 02, 2017, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 01, 2017, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!

Yep, that's why they skimmed through the evidence and feigned discussion and came to a quick decision within a mere six days!

Yes. If you want to believe that jurors hadn't already made their minds up based on their political beliefs then I think you're seriously naive.

OK, I'll bite, one more time.

Six days of debate...

Maybe, unlike people like YOU, they were able to separate the FACTS of the case from the political hype and implications surrounding it i.e. they made their judgment based on the evidence before them concerning whether this man intended to or was negligent in killing that poor woman, not on the Trump/Fox News political campaign about sanctuary cities.

Sanctuary city policy was not on trial here. This man picking up a gun and causing the death of this woman was. Completely separate issues.

The man may or may not be really guilty. The cops or the prosecution may have fucked up the case. The jury may have been biased. The judge might have made a balls of things. It would not be the first time for any of those scenarios, amazingly. Or everyone may have played brilliantly and they just couldn't convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. I have no idea, and unless you have something to disclose or you've been watching every utterance and proceeding in this trial, neither do you.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll not have to wait too long before the various people are on the morning news shows selling their stories.
whar sort of a city releases a felon illegal immigrant onto the street to commit more crimes when ice has told them to keep him locked up so he can be deported after he just served a sentence for drug possession,SAN Francisco is now a lawless city it was once a beautiful city but now its a kip full of homeless bums shitting and pissing everywhere breaking into cars and harassing the public with no repurcussions  . The county sheriff who released this guy should be charged and it's all because they want to give the middle finger to trump

Apart from his scaremongering using this case, what does it have to with Trump?
What charges should be brought against the sheriff? Have the people of SF not already got rid of him because of this killing?

Dear J70, So this dude kills an innocent girl walking along a pier in good ole san Fran, all the while linking her fathers arm,an illegal alien who had been thrown out of the country on no less than five prior occasions kills her with a gun he found under his swivel chair, he gets a trial, she gets buried and he gets off in a sanctuary city, how do you justify this speaking as a liberal supporter of such cities and what is your message to her family at this time! This last question applies to all you liberals who support sanctuary cities!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 02, 2017, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: stew on December 02, 2017, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 02, 2017, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 01, 2017, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!

Yep, that's why they skimmed through the evidence and feigned discussion and came to a quick decision within a mere six days!

Yes. If you want to believe that jurors hadn't already made their minds up based on their political beliefs then I think you're seriously naive.

OK, I'll bite, one more time.

Six days of debate...

Maybe, unlike people like YOU, they were able to separate the FACTS of the case from the political hype and implications surrounding it i.e. they made their judgment based on the evidence before them concerning whether this man intended to or was negligent in killing that poor woman, not on the Trump/Fox News political campaign about sanctuary cities.

Sanctuary city policy was not on trial here. This man picking up a gun and causing the death of this woman was. Completely separate issues.

The man may or may not be really guilty. The cops or the prosecution may have fucked up the case. The jury may have been biased. The judge might have made a balls of things. It would not be the first time for any of those scenarios, amazingly. Or everyone may have played brilliantly and they just couldn't convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. I have no idea, and unless you have something to disclose or you've been watching every utterance and proceeding in this trial, neither do you.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll not have to wait too long before the various people are on the morning news shows selling their stories.
whar sort of a city releases a felon illegal immigrant onto the street to commit more crimes when ice has told them to keep him locked up so he can be deported after he just served a sentence for drug possession,SAN Francisco is now a lawless city it was once a beautiful city but now its a kip full of homeless bums shitting and pissing everywhere breaking into cars and harassing the public with no repurcussions  . The county sheriff who released this guy should be charged and it's all because they want to give the middle finger to trump

Apart from his scaremongering using this case, what does it have to with Trump?
What charges should be brought against the sheriff? Have the people of SF not already got rid of him because of this killing?

Dear J70, So this dude kills an innocent girl walking along a pier in good ole san Fran, all the while linking her fathers arm,an illegal alien who had been thrown out of the country on no less than five prior occasions kills her with a gun he found under his swivel chair, he gets a trial, she gets buried and he gets off in a sanctuary city, how do you justify this speaking as a liberal supporter of such cities and what is your message to her family at this time! This last question applies to all you liberals who support sanctuary cities!

Have you been on the drink or are you suffering from short term memory loss?

We've already discussed this several times over the past few days, when I said several times that I supported deporting criminals, ergo, I think San Francisco was wrong to release him. You even gave me a snarky response to that statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 03, 2017, 11:59:59 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:13:51 PM
and

Quote.@BrianRoss: Mike Flynn is "prepared to testify" against Trump, his family, & the campaign, including Trump ordering him to talk to Russians

MSM FAKE NEWS ALERT

Brian Ross has been suspended for 4 weeks for the above report.

What have you got to say now Gay? So President Trump is quite right about the liberal media tripping over themselves tying to spread lies

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/abc-news-reporter-brian-ross-suspended-serious-error-flynn-reporting-n825966
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 03, 2017, 12:03:26 PM
and just to note

MSNBC coverage of Kate Steinle trial over this weekend - 0 minutes.

It's not newsworthy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 03, 2017, 01:11:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 03, 2017, 12:03:26 PM
and just to note

MSNBC coverage of Kate Steinle trial over this weekend - 0 minutes.

It's not newsworthy.

Thats why the sheep on here love their msnbc.......................They get to forget the fact they condone bastards like this being in the country!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 03, 2017, 01:12:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 03, 2017, 12:03:26 PM
and just to note

MSNBC coverage of Kate Steinle trial over this weekend - 0 minutes.

It's not newsworthy.
[/quote
er specifically because she doesn't have a penis.

In the wake of the sexual assault, harassment and misconduct allegations that have rocked many institutions including Hollywood and Capitol Hill, Dana Nessel says she has a solution.

READ MORE: Matt Lauer, Kevin Spacey and Louis C.K.: why fans of the accused largely stand by them


"When you're choosing Michigan's next attorney general ask yourself this: Who can you trust most not to show you their penis in a professional setting?" she asks in a campaign video released Wednesday.

"Is it the candidate who doesn't have a penis? I'd say so."
Nessel is running for the Democratic nomination for the position in the state, and other women are vying for nominations in other positions (including Senator Debbie Stabenow who is up for re-election). Nessel says an "all-female ticket" is just what they need right now.

The primary election won't be until August, but Nessel has started campaigning early to address the issue of sex crimes.

The issue has been amplified by high-profile cases like Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore, who's accused of sexually touching teenage girls in the 1980s, and Senator Al Franken who's apologized for misconduct including groping women.

Well played lberals, well played!




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 04, 2017, 10:49:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 02, 2017, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: stew on December 02, 2017, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 02, 2017, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 01, 2017, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!

Yep, that's why they skimmed through the evidence and feigned discussion and came to a quick decision within a mere six days!

Yes. If you want to believe that jurors hadn't already made their minds up based on their political beliefs then I think you're seriously naive.

OK, I'll bite, one more time.

Six days of debate...

Maybe, unlike people like YOU, they were able to separate the FACTS of the case from the political hype and implications surrounding it i.e. they made their judgment based on the evidence before them concerning whether this man intended to or was negligent in killing that poor woman, not on the Trump/Fox News political campaign about sanctuary cities.

Sanctuary city policy was not on trial here. This man picking up a gun and causing the death of this woman was. Completely separate issues.

The man may or may not be really guilty. The cops or the prosecution may have fucked up the case. The jury may have been biased. The judge might have made a balls of things. It would not be the first time for any of those scenarios, amazingly. Or everyone may have played brilliantly and they just couldn't convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. I have no idea, and unless you have something to disclose or you've been watching every utterance and proceeding in this trial, neither do you.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll not have to wait too long before the various people are on the morning news shows selling their stories.
whar sort of a city releases a felon illegal immigrant onto the street to commit more crimes when ice has told them to keep him locked up so he can be deported after he just served a sentence for drug possession,SAN Francisco is now a lawless city it was once a beautiful city but now its a kip full of homeless bums shitting and pissing everywhere breaking into cars and harassing the public with no repurcussions  . The county sheriff who released this guy should be charged and it's all because they want to give the middle finger to trump

Apart from his scaremongering using this case, what does it have to with Trump?
What charges should be brought against the sheriff? Have the people of SF not already got rid of him because of this killing?

Dear J70, So this dude kills an innocent girl walking along a pier in good ole san Fran, all the while linking her fathers arm,an illegal alien who had been thrown out of the country on no less than five prior occasions kills her with a gun he found under his swivel chair, he gets a trial, she gets buried and he gets off in a sanctuary city, how do you justify this speaking as a liberal supporter of such cities and what is your message to her family at this time! This last question applies to all you liberals who support sanctuary cities!

Have you been on the drink or are you suffering from short term memory loss?

We've already discussed this several times over the past few days, when I said several times that I supported deporting criminals, ergo, I think San Francisco was wrong to release him. You even gave me a snarky response to that statement.

Do you agree with sanctuary cities in general? That is what I am going on about!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 04, 2017, 11:32:53 AM
Quote from: stew on December 04, 2017, 10:49:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 02, 2017, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: stew on December 02, 2017, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 02, 2017, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 01, 2017, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 01, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Seems to me it was a horrible accident which happens when guns are involved.

Oh come on.

He gave different versions of what happened. First he said he was shooting at a seal then changed it to saying he stepped on the gun.

Then he threw the gun into the sea.

You believe him? Seriously?


If he was trying to shoot her why did the evidence show that the bullet hit the ground first??

Is that how you would shoot someone?#

Plus we're only reading highly summarised versions of testimony and evidence. Surely the jury were best placed to make the call on this and judging by how long they deliberated they didn't take it lightly!!

Do you think a jury in San Francisco would be unbiased, especially when 3 of the 12 members are immigrants themselves? This case had bigger consequences than just a regular homicide. Had he been found guilty it would have been a massive blow to sanctuary cities. I'm doubtful the jury would have been fully focused on the murder itself but what their verdict would mean for their political leanings. The US is just that polarised.

Oh so you're assuming and making stuff up again. . . keep doing that!!! It helps everyone realise that you haven't a clue about the real world outside of your little Fox/Infowars Breitbart bubble!!]

MAGA!!

Yep, that's why they skimmed through the evidence and feigned discussion and came to a quick decision within a mere six days!

Yes. If you want to believe that jurors hadn't already made their minds up based on their political beliefs then I think you're seriously naive.

OK, I'll bite, one more time.

Six days of debate...

Maybe, unlike people like YOU, they were able to separate the FACTS of the case from the political hype and implications surrounding it i.e. they made their judgment based on the evidence before them concerning whether this man intended to or was negligent in killing that poor woman, not on the Trump/Fox News political campaign about sanctuary cities.

Sanctuary city policy was not on trial here. This man picking up a gun and causing the death of this woman was. Completely separate issues.

The man may or may not be really guilty. The cops or the prosecution may have fucked up the case. The jury may have been biased. The judge might have made a balls of things. It would not be the first time for any of those scenarios, amazingly. Or everyone may have played brilliantly and they just couldn't convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. I have no idea, and unless you have something to disclose or you've been watching every utterance and proceeding in this trial, neither do you.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll not have to wait too long before the various people are on the morning news shows selling their stories.
whar sort of a city releases a felon illegal immigrant onto the street to commit more crimes when ice has told them to keep him locked up so he can be deported after he just served a sentence for drug possession,SAN Francisco is now a lawless city it was once a beautiful city but now its a kip full of homeless bums shitting and pissing everywhere breaking into cars and harassing the public with no repurcussions  . The county sheriff who released this guy should be charged and it's all because they want to give the middle finger to trump

Apart from his scaremongering using this case, what does it have to with Trump?
What charges should be brought against the sheriff? Have the people of SF not already got rid of him because of this killing?

Dear J70, So this dude kills an innocent girl walking along a pier in good ole san Fran, all the while linking her fathers arm,an illegal alien who had been thrown out of the country on no less than five prior occasions kills her with a gun he found under his swivel chair, he gets a trial, she gets buried and he gets off in a sanctuary city, how do you justify this speaking as a liberal supporter of such cities and what is your message to her family at this time! This last question applies to all you liberals who support sanctuary cities!

Have you been on the drink or are you suffering from short term memory loss?

We've already discussed this several times over the past few days, when I said several times that I supported deporting criminals, ergo, I think San Francisco was wrong to release him. You even gave me a snarky response to that statement.

Do you agree with sanctuary cities in general? That is what I am going on about!

Ive already answered THAT too. Yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:22:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 03, 2017, 11:59:59 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:13:51 PM
and

Quote.@BrianRoss: Mike Flynn is "prepared to testify" against Trump, his family, & the campaign, including Trump ordering him to talk to Russians

MSM FAKE NEWS ALERT

Brian Ross has been suspended for 4 weeks for the above report.

What have you got to say now Gay? So President Trump is quite right about the liberal media tripping over themselves tying to spread lies

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/abc-news-reporter-brian-ross-suspended-serious-error-flynn-reporting-n825966

What's incorrect in that tweet??

QuoteRoss said in the "clarification" that his source later told ABC News that Trump had asked Flynn to contact the Russians after the election as president-elect.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-01/kushner-is-said-to-have-ordered-flynn-to-contact-russia

QuoteTwo former officials with the Trump transition team who worked closely with Flynn say that during the last days of the Obama administration, the retired general was instructed to contact foreign ambassadors and foreign ministers of countries on the U.N. Security Council, ahead of a vote condemning Israeli settlements. Flynn was told to try to get them to delay that vote until after Barack Obama had left office, or oppose the resolution altogether.

QuoteFormer deputy national security adviser KT McFarland was the senior transition official at Mar-a-Lago who discussed with Flynn what to communicate to the Russian ambassador about US sanctions, according to sources familiar with the matter. McFarland was not named in the document, but sources confirmed she was one of the transition officials described in the court filings.

An attorney for McFarland declined comment.

McFarland met with Mueller investigators recently to answer questions about Flynn, the sources said.

According to the special counsel charges, McFarland and Flynn talked about the potential impact of the sanctions on the incoming Trump administration's foreign policy and that the transition team did not want Russia to escalate the situation.




Thanks for the homophobic slur by the way  ;) - enjoy your warning (https://s33.postimg.org/aygfliqtb/icon_thumbsup.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:30:59 PM
I see he is actively supporting someone accused of sexual assault now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:39:33 PM
Quote from: stew on December 03, 2017, 01:11:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 03, 2017, 12:03:26 PM
and just to note

MSNBC coverage of Kate Steinle trial over this weekend - 0 minutes.

It's not newsworthy.

Thats why the sheep on here love their msnbc.......................They get to forget the fact they condone b**tards like this being in the country!

Oh - and lads ............... stop swallowing the Fox & Friends propaganda

http://mms.tveyes.com/transcript.asp?StationID=205&DateTime=12/1/2017%205:09:54%20AM&playclip=true

(https://i.imgur.com/eXQIoYD.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 04, 2017, 02:49:20 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:30:59 PM
I see he is actively supporting someone accused of sexual assault now

Hes a stupid fvck, but he is very, very clever

Great distraction from the Flynn plea deal and the Mueller Investigation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 04, 2017, 02:57:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 04, 2017, 02:49:20 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:30:59 PM
I see he is actively supporting someone accused of sexual assault now

Hes a stupid fvck, but he is very, very clever

Great distraction from the Flynn plea deal and the Mueller Investigation
I think Trump works on pure dopamine. He can't concentrate. He always wants attention. And he is incoherent.  So Mueller will get him.

The biggest thing about him is the con job he pulled on desperate working class people he calls losers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 05, 2017, 12:11:19 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:30:59 PM
I see he is actively supporting someone accused of sexual assault now

So what happened innocent until proven guilty then????

Someone accused! Ach shure just throw away the key so!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2017, 12:23:28 AM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 12:11:19 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:30:59 PM
I see he is actively supporting someone accused of sexual assault now

So what happened innocent until proven guilty then????

Someone accused! Ach shure just throw away the key so!

There's no trial or charges. Just some very disturbing questions about a self-appointed holy warrior. Its either nine women lying and conspiring or one man lying. Or with Trump, sixteen women. Certainly should be enough to give would-be voters serious pause at least.

Funny though stew, how YOU repeatedly have proclaimed Hillary Clinton to be a murderer, including of Vince Foster, without a shred of even semi-credible evidence, yet here you are asking all to give the benefit of the doubt to a man with nine different people putting their names and personal lives and reputations behind their accusations (along with all the other people who have come out in support of the accounts of these women).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 01:54:33 AM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 12:11:19 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:30:59 PM
I see he is actively supporting someone accused of sexual assault now

So what happened innocent until proven guilty then????

Someone accused! Ach shure just throw away the key so!

Do you understand the meaning of the word accused?  ::)

And sure you boys have Franken in jail as well.

Not to mention your continued rubbish about the Dems running a paedophile ring.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2017, 02:14:57 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 04, 2017, 02:57:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 04, 2017, 02:49:20 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:30:59 PM
I see he is actively supporting someone accused of sexual assault now

Hes a stupid fvck, but he is very, very clever

Great distraction from the Flynn plea deal and the Mueller Investigation
I think Trump works on pure dopamine. He can't concentrate. He always wants attention. And he is incoherent.  So Mueller will get him.

The biggest thing about him is the con job he pulled on desperate working class people he calls losers.

He flipped a lot of people who had voted for Obama twice....middle America is looking for "Hope and Change" yet have been left high and dry time after time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 02:46:10 AM
Close run call between those let down by hope and change, and those waiting on making America great again.

Donors are doing pretty well now all the same. All eyes on Mueller, no one watching out for the poor, the environment, the refugee or the natural parks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:02:20 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 02:46:10 AM
Close run call between those let down by hope and change, and those waiting on making America great again.

Donors are doing pretty well now all the same. All eyes on Mueller, no one watching out for the poor, the environment, the refugee or the natural parks

FBI Just demoted a senior agent in the investigation for having sent anti Trump and pro Hillary texts during the campaign

Hes also the senior official in charge of the Hillary email investigation

I fvcking hate all these cvnts

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/02/politics/fbi-agent-removed-trump-investigation/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 03:24:24 AM
Whitey, it's a tough spot All right that we find ourselves in now. Dems are rudderless and leaderless and completely drifting. The GOP just screwed over anyone not wealthy enough to know a senator or congressman. And please, let's not pretend trickle down works, or that Corp tax savings are spent on job creation. Or that the Dems were proposing anything other than the same auld shite.

So my good old fashioned safety net capitalism has no home. I can't abide our current CIC, (an American Ian Paisley) I think he is so utterly and completely out of his depth that it's not funny, and completely in the pocket of  his donors and others who may have leverage, but what politician isn't? However he is acting as if there is no tomorrow, and for me, with dual citizen children, I really believe he is doing my kids an injustice, giving the breaks to donors and screwing the poor with this tax bill. And his foreign policy, or complete lack thereof is mortgaging the place of the  US in this world. I still give him a pass if he kick starts the infrastructure bill, but at this point, the tooth fairy and santa are proposing and seconding the bill...

Screwed I tell ya. And not a single elected official with a plan.

I used to say vote C, none of the above, bit the fact that I think the status quo is better than where we are now speaks volumes...

And even with all that shite, I can't stand the false patriotism of Fox and Friends. What you call the MSM may be shite, but at least they aren't Cray Cray. The nonsense being peddled at this point in time will be viewed in the years to come as lunacy. But at least the MSM as some attempt at reality and truth and balance. Fails often but at least tries. Fox Breitbart, Trump Twitter, all complete and utter shite,  1984 ain't got shit on 2017. Doing a fundamental disservice to the middle class, Imbuing unfounded prejudice and hatred to a hard working population that deserves better health care, better education, more social mobility and the truth.

Maybe next time...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 05, 2017, 07:36:23 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 03:24:24 AM
Whitey, it's a tough spot All right that we find ourselves in now. Dems are rudderless and leaderless and completely drifting. The GOP just screwed over anyone not wealthy enough to know a senator or congressman. And please, let's not pretend trickle down works, or that Corp tax savings are spent on job creation. Or that the Dems were proposing anything other than the same auld shite.

So my good old fashioned safety net capitalism has no home. I can't abide our current CIC, (an American Ian Paisley) I think he is so utterly and completely out of his depth that it's not funny, and completely in the pocket of  his donors and others who may have leverage, but what politician isn't? However he is acting as if there is no tomorrow, and for me, with dual citizen children, I really believe he is doing my kids an injustice, giving the breaks to donors and screwing the poor with this tax bill. And his foreign policy, or complete lack thereof is mortgaging the place of the  US in this world. I still give him a pass if he kick starts the infrastructure bill, but at this point, the tooth fairy and santa are proposing and seconding the bill...

Screwed I tell ya. And not a single elected official with a plan.

I used to say vote C, none of the above, bit the fact that I think the status quo is better than where we are now speaks volumes...

And even with all that shite, I can't stand the false patriotism of Fox and Friends. What you call the MSM may be shite, but at least they aren't Cray Cray. The nonsense being peddled at this point in time will be viewed in the years to come as lunacy. But at least the MSM as some attempt at reality and truth and balance. Fails often but at least tries. Fox Breitbart, Trump Twitter, all complete and utter shite,  1984 ain't got shit on 2017. Doing a fundamental disservice to the middle class, Imbuing unfounded prejudice and hatred to a hard working population that deserves better health care, better education, more social mobility and the truth.

Maybe next time...
Trump is a hate monger. That is deliberate.  Systematic.
It goes with plutocracy. All means to attrat and distract . And Trump is a master of distraction.

But voters were already disgusted with elites in 2016. And Trump made them promises he had no intention of delivering . And hste won't cover that up.

The Dems need to be purged but the GOP may be beyond saving

Here''s an anti Trump song

https://youtu.be/xMtuVP8Mj4o

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 03:24:24 AM
Whitey, it's a tough spot All right that we find ourselves in now. Dems are rudderless and leaderless and completely drifting. The GOP just screwed over anyone not wealthy enough to know a senator or congressman. And please, let's not pretend trickle down works, or that Corp tax savings are spent on job creation. Or that the Dems were proposing anything other than the same auld shite.

So my good old fashioned safety net capitalism has no home. I can't abide our current CIC, (an American Ian Paisley) I think he is so utterly and completely out of his depth that it's not funny, and completely in the pocket of  his donors and others who may have leverage, but what politician isn't? However he is acting as if there is no tomorrow, and for me, with dual citizen children, I really believe he is doing my kids an injustice, giving the breaks to donors and screwing the poor with this tax bill. And his foreign policy, or complete lack thereof is mortgaging the place of the  US in this world. I still give him a pass if he kick starts the infrastructure bill, but at this point, the tooth fairy and santa are proposing and seconding the bill...

Screwed I tell ya. And not a single elected official with a plan.

I used to say vote C, none of the above, bit the fact that I think the status quo is better than where we are now speaks volumes...

And even with all that shite, I can't stand the false patriotism of Fox and Friends. What you call the MSM may be shite, but at least they aren't Cray Cray. The nonsense being peddled at this point in time will be viewed in the years to come as lunacy. But at least the MSM as some attempt at reality and truth and balance. Fails often but at least tries. Fox Breitbart, Trump Twitter, all complete and utter shite,  1984 ain't got shit on 2017. Doing a fundamental disservice to the middle class, Imbuing unfounded prejudice and hatred to a hard working population that deserves better health care, better education, more social mobility and the truth.

Maybe next time...

MSM are a big part of the reason were in this $hite

Every mainstream Republican was beating Hillary, so what does the MSM do.....they give legitimacy to a clown candidate in the form of $2 B worth of free airtime during the primaries.

We even have evicence of one of the major networks in cahoots with the Clinton campaign to promote their "pied piper"strategy.

They arent as crazy as Fox and Breitbart, but no Republican candidate will ever get a fair shake. 

How they treated Mitt Romney was an absolute fvckin scandal

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-the-major-mainstream-media-hate-mitt-romney


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2017, 12:43:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 03:24:24 AM
Whitey, it's a tough spot All right that we find ourselves in now. Dems are rudderless and leaderless and completely drifting. The GOP just screwed over anyone not wealthy enough to know a senator or congressman. And please, let's not pretend trickle down works, or that Corp tax savings are spent on job creation. Or that the Dems were proposing anything other than the same auld shite.

So my good old fashioned safety net capitalism has no home. I can't abide our current CIC, (an American Ian Paisley) I think he is so utterly and completely out of his depth that it's not funny, and completely in the pocket of  his donors and others who may have leverage, but what politician isn't? However he is acting as if there is no tomorrow, and for me, with dual citizen children, I really believe he is doing my kids an injustice, giving the breaks to donors and screwing the poor with this tax bill. And his foreign policy, or complete lack thereof is mortgaging the place of the  US in this world. I still give him a pass if he kick starts the infrastructure bill, but at this point, the tooth fairy and santa are proposing and seconding the bill...

Screwed I tell ya. And not a single elected official with a plan.

I used to say vote C, none of the above, bit the fact that I think the status quo is better than where we are now speaks volumes...

And even with all that shite, I can't stand the false patriotism of Fox and Friends. What you call the MSM may be shite, but at least they aren't Cray Cray. The nonsense being peddled at this point in time will be viewed in the years to come as lunacy. But at least the MSM as some attempt at reality and truth and balance. Fails often but at least tries. Fox Breitbart, Trump Twitter, all complete and utter shite,  1984 ain't got shit on 2017. Doing a fundamental disservice to the middle class, Imbuing unfounded prejudice and hatred to a hard working population that deserves better health care, better education, more social mobility and the truth.

Maybe next time...

MSM are a big part of the reason were in this $hite

Every mainstream Republican was beating Hillary, so what does the MSM do.....they give legitimacy to a clown candidate in the form of $2 B worth of free airtime during the primaries.

We even have evicence of one of the major networks in cahoots with the Clinton campaign to promote their "pied piper"strategy.

They arent as crazy as Fox and Breitbart, but no Republican candidate will ever get a fair shake. 

How they treated Mitt Romney was an absolute fvckin scandal

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-the-major-mainstream-media-hate-mitt-romney

Everything in that article (from The Daily Beast BTW) is from columnists, of which Medved is one.

Columnists write opinions. They have political agendas, as does the editorial page of almost every newspaper in existence, whether it's The NY Times or WSJ or The Telegraph or The Sun or NY Post.

And seriously... Gail Collins? She herself admits talking about the dog for the ten millionth time. That's her style. Taking the piss to make her point. She's amusing at times, but hardly a big player in setting the agenda.

Meanwhile, the whining about the MSM continues unabated even as the right utterly dominates the radio, Fox News boasts about its cable news ratings, Sinclair Media buys up local tv stations all over the place, slipping their political slant into local newscasts, and the right wing pretends that they don't have any influence on the public discourse.

Regardless, the right has bought into Trump, lock, stock and barrel. The RNC has even renengaged with the campaign of the suspected adolescent girl enthusiast on the back of Trump's influence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 01:03:08 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-05/deutsche-bank-is-said-to-have-received-subpoena-on-client-trump

QuoteSpecial prosecutor Robert Mueller zeroed in on President Donald Trump's business dealings with Deutsche Bank AG as his investigation into alleged Russian meddling in U.S. elections widens.

Mueller issued a subpoena to Germany's largest lender several weeks ago, forcing the bank to submit documents on its relationship with Trump and his family, according to a person briefed on the matter, who asked not to be identified because the action has not been announced.

"Deutsche Bank always cooperates with investigating authorities in all countries," the lender said in a statement to Bloomberg Tuesday, declining to provide additional information.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2017, 01:52:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 12:43:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 03:24:24 AM
Whitey, it's a tough spot All right that we find ourselves in now. Dems are rudderless and leaderless and completely drifting. The GOP just screwed over anyone not wealthy enough to know a senator or congressman. And please, let's not pretend trickle down works, or that Corp tax savings are spent on job creation. Or that the Dems were proposing anything other than the same auld shite.

So my good old fashioned safety net capitalism has no home. I can't abide our current CIC, (an American Ian Paisley) I think he is so utterly and completely out of his depth that it's not funny, and completely in the pocket of  his donors and others who may have leverage, but what politician isn't? However he is acting as if there is no tomorrow, and for me, with dual citizen children, I really believe he is doing my kids an injustice, giving the breaks to donors and screwing the poor with this tax bill. And his foreign policy, or complete lack thereof is mortgaging the place of the  US in this world. I still give him a pass if he kick starts the infrastructure bill, but at this point, the tooth fairy and santa are proposing and seconding the bill...

Screwed I tell ya. And not a single elected official with a plan.

I used to say vote C, none of the above, bit the fact that I think the status quo is better than where we are now speaks volumes...

And even with all that shite, I can't stand the false patriotism of Fox and Friends. What you call the MSM may be shite, but at least they aren't Cray Cray. The nonsense being peddled at this point in time will be viewed in the years to come as lunacy. But at least the MSM as some attempt at reality and truth and balance. Fails often but at least tries. Fox Breitbart, Trump Twitter, all complete and utter shite,  1984 ain't got shit on 2017. Doing a fundamental disservice to the middle class, Imbuing unfounded prejudice and hatred to a hard working population that deserves better health care, better education, more social mobility and the truth.

Maybe next time...

MSM are a big part of the reason were in this $hite

Every mainstream Republican was beating Hillary, so what does the MSM do.....they give legitimacy to a clown candidate in the form of $2 B worth of free airtime during the primaries.

We even have evicence of one of the major networks in cahoots with the Clinton campaign to promote their "pied piper"strategy.

They arent as crazy as Fox and Breitbart, but no Republican candidate will ever get a fair shake. 

How they treated Mitt Romney was an absolute fvckin scandal

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-the-major-mainstream-media-hate-mitt-romney

Everything in that article (from The Daily Beast BTW) is from columnists, of which Medved is one.

Columnists write opinions. They have political agendas, as does the editorial page of almost every newspaper in existence, whether it's The NY Times or WSJ or The Telegraph or The Sun or NY Post.

And seriously... Gail Collins? She herself admits talking about the dog for the ten millionth time. That's her style. Taking the piss to make her point. She's amusing at times, but hardly a big player in setting the agenda.

Meanwhile, the whining about the MSM continues unabated even as the right utterly dominates the radio, Fox News boasts about its cable news ratings, Sinclair Media buys up local tv stations all over the place, slipping their political slant into local newscasts, and the right wing pretends that they don't have any influence on the public discourse.

Regardless, the right has bought into Trump, lock, stock and barrel. The RNC has even renengaged with the campaign of the suspected adolescent girl enthusiast on the back of Trump's influence.

believe what you want.....the character assasination of Romney was nothing short of a disgrace

Remember the condescending put down of Romney over his Russia comments

NY Times-"His comments display either a shocking lack of knowledge about international affairs or just craven politics. Either way, they are reckless and unworthy of a major presidential contender," the editorial board wrote in March 2012 in an article titled "The Never ­Ending Cold War."

Heres Bill Maher

https://www.salon.com/2016/11/07/bill-maher-liberals-cried-wolf-about-mitt-romney-now-they-face-a-genuine-fascist/


"I know liberals made a big mistake because we attacked your boy Bush like he was the end of the world. And he wasn't. And Mitt Romney we attacked that way. I gave Obama a million dollars because I was so afraid of Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney wouldn't have changed my life that much or yours. Or John McCain."


And the NY Times again

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.html


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Seriously, you're going to whine about the "character assassination" of Romney after what Obama was put through?

If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.

Did Romney ever have a doppelgänger cast as the devil in a mainstream miniseries about Jesus?

I despise the negative and destructive execution of politics in the US, but this idea that it's all one-sided and that what happened to Romney was somehow out of the ordinary is laughable.

That he seems so mainstream and non-threatening in retrospect says little except that the current travesty in the Oval Office is so out of the historical norm and a representation of how fucked up and perverted the politics of the US right has become.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 05, 2017, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.


(https://nathanbickel.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/obamathat-is-a-white-kufi-on-his-head-the-most-devout-of-muslims-wear-it-this-is-a-picture-i-found-that-was-posted-back-in-2007-regarding-his-campaigning-for-riala-odinga.jpg)


There you go J70
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 05, 2017, 02:35:20 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 04, 2017, 01:22:57 PM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/abc-news-reporter-brian-ross-suspended-serious-error-flynn-reporting-n825966


What's incorrect in that tweet??


Brian Ross of ABC spread news that this happened during the election. You sure can play dumb if you want to Gay.
ABC knowingly broadcasting lies. That's MSM for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 02:39:36 PM
Spreading lies you say?  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

surely not FakeNewsFox

Quote from: foxcommander on December 03, 2017, 12:03:26 PM
and just to note

MSNBC coverage of Kate Steinle trial over this weekend - 0 minutes.

It's not newsworthy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 05, 2017, 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 02:39:36 PM
Spreading lies you say?  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Quote from: foxcommander on December 03, 2017, 12:03:26 PM
and just to note

MSNBC coverage of Kate Steinle trial over this weekend - 0 minutes.

It's not newsworthy.

Apologies
In that 48 hour span, they covered it a total of 2 minutes and 15 seconds.

Comprehensive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
Swallowing that Fox and Friends propaganda hook, line and sinker.

You can't even form an original thought in that head of yours  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 05, 2017, 02:59:45 PM
Erm - so you don't post someone elses false tweets then Gay??  ;D
You liberals are hilarious.


Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2017, 04:13:51 PM
Quote.@BrianRoss: Mike Flynn is "prepared to testify" against Trump, his family, & the campaign, including Trump ordering him to talk to Russians
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 03:02:14 PM
I think we can add "being unable to read" along with "forming an original thought" to things you are unable to do
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Seriously, you're going to whine about the "character assassination" of Romney after what Obama was put through?

If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.

Did Romney ever have a doppelgänger cast as the devil in a mainstream miniseries about Jesus?

I despise the negative and destructive execution of politics in the US, but this idea that it's all one-sided and that what happened to Romney was somehow out of the ordinary is laughable.

That he seems so mainstream and non-threatening in retrospect says little except that the current travesty in the Oval Office is so out of the historical norm and a representation of how fucked up and perverted the politics of the US right has become.

Nice attempt at the bait and switch

The "right leaning MSM" (eg WSJ) did nothing of the sort to Obama whereas the left leaning MSM evicerated Romney at every turn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2017, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Seriously, you're going to whine about the "character assassination" of Romney after what Obama was put through?

If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.

Did Romney ever have a doppelgänger cast as the devil in a mainstream miniseries about Jesus?

I despise the negative and destructive execution of politics in the US, but this idea that it's all one-sided and that what happened to Romney was somehow out of the ordinary is laughable.

That he seems so mainstream and non-threatening in retrospect says little except that the current travesty in the Oval Office is so out of the historical norm and a representation of how fucked up and perverted the politics of the US right has become.

Nice attempt at the bait and switch

The "right leaning MSM" (eg WSJ) did nothing of the sort to Obama whereas the left leaning MSM evicerated Romney at every turn

Nice bait and switch by yourself... as if Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and so on were NOT the right wing mainstream media, to say nothing of politicians all the way up to John Boehner who indulged the birther bullshit of their caucus and constituency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 05, 2017, 03:29:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 03:02:14 PM
I think we can add "being unable to read" along with "forming an original thought" to things you are unable to do

You've said that twice. Very original Gay  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2017, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Seriously, you're going to whine about the "character assassination" of Romney after what Obama was put through?

If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.

Did Romney ever have a doppelgänger cast as the devil in a mainstream miniseries about Jesus?

I despise the negative and destructive execution of politics in the US, but this idea that it's all one-sided and that what happened to Romney was somehow out of the ordinary is laughable.

That he seems so mainstream and non-threatening in retrospect says little except that the current travesty in the Oval Office is so out of the historical norm and a representation of how fucked up and perverted the politics of the US right has become.

Nice attempt at the bait and switch

The "right leaning MSM" (eg WSJ) did nothing of the sort to Obama whereas the left leaning MSM evicerated Romney at every turn

Nice bait and switch by yourself... as if Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and so on were NOT the right wing mainstream media, to say nothing of politicians all the way up to John Boehner who indulged the birther bullshit of their caucus and constituency.

Haha....you do know where the birther controversy came from?

See much of the Obama "story" (just like the Elizabeth Warren story) was a manufactured pile of shite.   

When it suited them after he wrote his first book, his biography stated that he was born in Kenya (inside the cover of his own book)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2017, 04:46:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Seriously, you're going to whine about the "character assassination" of Romney after what Obama was put through?

If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.

Did Romney ever have a doppelgänger cast as the devil in a mainstream miniseries about Jesus?

I despise the negative and destructive execution of politics in the US, but this idea that it's all one-sided and that what happened to Romney was somehow out of the ordinary is laughable.

That he seems so mainstream and non-threatening in retrospect says little except that the current travesty in the Oval Office is so out of the historical norm and a representation of how fucked up and perverted the politics of the US right has become.

Nice attempt at the bait and switch

The "right leaning MSM" (eg WSJ) did nothing of the sort to Obama whereas the left leaning MSM evicerated Romney at every turn

Nice bait and switch by yourself... as if Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and so on were NOT the right wing mainstream media, to say nothing of politicians all the way up to John Boehner who indulged the birther bullshit of their caucus and constituency.

Haha....you do know where the birther controversy came from?

See much of the Obama "story" (just like the Elizabeth Warren story) was a manufactured pile of shite.   

When it suited them after he wrote his first book, his biography stated that he was born in Kenya (inside the cover of his own book)

Which the publisher stated was an error on their part and not info that Obama gave them. Tell us, do you think the average publisher will go back and recall and reprint a run of books by some new, unknown author to correct a fairly inconsequential error in the cover bio?

And it happened more than 15 years before he even ran for president. And it's not like the record hadn't been corrected years before he ran or Trump's "people" started finding "unbelievable things" in Hawaii in 2011.

Regardless though, you seem to be posting this to the effect that the right wing personal campaigns against Obama were justified. Is that the case?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 05, 2017, 04:50:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 04:46:14 PM
Which the publisher stated was an error on their part and not info that Obama gave them.

Yeah sure  ;)

His term is over. Maybe it's time to come clean.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 04:46:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Seriously, you're going to whine about the "character assassination" of Romney after what Obama was put through?

If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.

Did Romney ever have a doppelgänger cast as the devil in a mainstream miniseries about Jesus?

I despise the negative and destructive execution of politics in the US, but this idea that it's all one-sided and that what happened to Romney was somehow out of the ordinary is laughable.

That he seems so mainstream and non-threatening in retrospect says little except that the current travesty in the Oval Office is so out of the historical norm and a representation of how fucked up and perverted the politics of the US right has become.

Nice attempt at the bait and switch

The "right leaning MSM" (eg WSJ) did nothing of the sort to Obama whereas the left leaning MSM evicerated Romney at every turn

Nice bait and switch by yourself... as if Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and so on were NOT the right wing mainstream media, to say nothing of politicians all the way up to John Boehner who indulged the birther bullshit of their caucus and constituency.

Haha....you do know where the birther controversy came from?

See much of the Obama "story" (just like the Elizabeth Warren story) was a manufactured pile of shite.   

When it suited them after he wrote his first book, his biography stated that he was born in Kenya (inside the cover of his own book)

Which the publisher stated was an error on their part and not info that Obama gave them. Tell us, do you think the average publisher will go back and recall and reprint a run of books by some new, unknown author to correct a fairly inconsequential error in the cover bio?

And it happened more than 15 years before he even ran for president. And it's not like the record hadn't been corrected years before he ran or Trump's "people" started finding "unbelievable things" in Hawaii in 2011.

Regardless though, you seem to be posting this to the effect that the right wing personal campaigns against Obama were justified. Is that the case?

If your publisher stated that you were born in Timbuktu, would you wait 15 years to correct it?

Obviously he was born in Hawaii, and even if he wasnt, hed still be eligible to run because his mother was a citizen

If I was to hazard a guess, Id say in his application to either Columbia or Harvard, he misrepresented where he was from in order to gain an edge in the admission process.  Exactly like liar Lizzie
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2017, 05:22:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 04:46:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Seriously, you're going to whine about the "character assassination" of Romney after what Obama was put through?

If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.

Did Romney ever have a doppelgänger cast as the devil in a mainstream miniseries about Jesus?

I despise the negative and destructive execution of politics in the US, but this idea that it's all one-sided and that what happened to Romney was somehow out of the ordinary is laughable.

That he seems so mainstream and non-threatening in retrospect says little except that the current travesty in the Oval Office is so out of the historical norm and a representation of how fucked up and perverted the politics of the US right has become.

Nice attempt at the bait and switch

The "right leaning MSM" (eg WSJ) did nothing of the sort to Obama whereas the left leaning MSM evicerated Romney at every turn

Nice bait and switch by yourself... as if Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and so on were NOT the right wing mainstream media, to say nothing of politicians all the way up to John Boehner who indulged the birther bullshit of their caucus and constituency.

Haha....you do know where the birther controversy came from?

See much of the Obama "story" (just like the Elizabeth Warren story) was a manufactured pile of shite.   

When it suited them after he wrote his first book, his biography stated that he was born in Kenya (inside the cover of his own book)

Which the publisher stated was an error on their part and not info that Obama gave them. Tell us, do you think the average publisher will go back and recall and reprint a run of books by some new, unknown author to correct a fairly inconsequential error in the cover bio?

And it happened more than 15 years before he even ran for president. And it's not like the record hadn't been corrected years before he ran or Trump's "people" started finding "unbelievable things" in Hawaii in 2011.

Regardless though, you seem to be posting this to the effect that the right wing personal campaigns against Obama were justified. Is that the case?

If your publisher stated that you were born in Timbuktu, would you wait 15 years to correct it?

Obviously he was born in Hawaii, and even if he wasnt, hed still be eligible to run because his mother was a citizen

If I was to hazard a guess, Id say in his application to either Columbia or Harvard, he misrepresented where he was from in order to gain an edge in the admission process.  Exactly like liar Lizzie

Correct it where?

On the new editions? On all other references to his birthplace?

A NY Times article predating the book said he was born in Hawaii.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html)

And what advantage would he have gained in his application to Harvard or Columbia by stating he was Kenyan-born? A NY Times profile while he was still at Harvard would have been problematic if such an advantage existed and had been falsely availed of, would it not?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2017, 05:25:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 05:22:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 04:46:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Seriously, you're going to whine about the "character assassination" of Romney after what Obama was put through?

If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.

Did Romney ever have a doppelgänger cast as the devil in a mainstream miniseries about Jesus?

I despise the negative and destructive execution of politics in the US, but this idea that it's all one-sided and that what happened to Romney was somehow out of the ordinary is laughable.

That he seems so mainstream and non-threatening in retrospect says little except that the current travesty in the Oval Office is so out of the historical norm and a representation of how fucked up and perverted the politics of the US right has become.

Nice attempt at the bait and switch

The "right leaning MSM" (eg WSJ) did nothing of the sort to Obama whereas the left leaning MSM evicerated Romney at every turn

Nice bait and switch by yourself... as if Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and so on were NOT the right wing mainstream media, to say nothing of politicians all the way up to John Boehner who indulged the birther bullshit of their caucus and constituency.

Haha....you do know where the birther controversy came from?

See much of the Obama "story" (just like the Elizabeth Warren story) was a manufactured pile of shite.   

When it suited them after he wrote his first book, his biography stated that he was born in Kenya (inside the cover of his own book)

Which the publisher stated was an error on their part and not info that Obama gave them. Tell us, do you think the average publisher will go back and recall and reprint a run of books by some new, unknown author to correct a fairly inconsequential error in the cover bio?

And it happened more than 15 years before he even ran for president. And it's not like the record hadn't been corrected years before he ran or Trump's "people" started finding "unbelievable things" in Hawaii in 2011.

Regardless though, you seem to be posting this to the effect that the right wing personal campaigns against Obama were justified. Is that the case?

If your publisher stated that you were born in Timbuktu, would you wait 15 years to correct it?

Obviously he was born in Hawaii, and even if he wasnt, hed still be eligible to run because his mother was a citizen

If I was to hazard a guess, Id say in his application to either Columbia or Harvard, he misrepresented where he was from in order to gain an edge in the admission process.  Exactly like liar Lizzie

Correct it where?

On the new editions? On all other references to his birthplace?

A NY Times article predating the book said he was born in Hawaii.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html)

And what advantage would he have gained in his application to Harvard or Columbia by stating he was Kenyan-born? A NY Times profile while he was still at Harvard would have been problematic if such an advantage existed and had been falsely availed of, would it not?

His records are sealed, so we will never know.

Why seal them if theres nothing to hide
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2017, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 05:25:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 05:22:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 04:46:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Seriously, you're going to whine about the "character assassination" of Romney after what Obama was put through?

If you believed the right, and this wasn't just the right wing media, this was the GOP politicians, all the way to the top of Congress (leaving aside the birther-in-chief), Obama was a Kenyan- born Muslim communist who wasn't legally entitled to be president and who hated white people and was bent on the destruction of Christian America.

Did Romney ever have a doppelgänger cast as the devil in a mainstream miniseries about Jesus?

I despise the negative and destructive execution of politics in the US, but this idea that it's all one-sided and that what happened to Romney was somehow out of the ordinary is laughable.

That he seems so mainstream and non-threatening in retrospect says little except that the current travesty in the Oval Office is so out of the historical norm and a representation of how fucked up and perverted the politics of the US right has become.

Nice attempt at the bait and switch

The "right leaning MSM" (eg WSJ) did nothing of the sort to Obama whereas the left leaning MSM evicerated Romney at every turn

Nice bait and switch by yourself... as if Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and so on were NOT the right wing mainstream media, to say nothing of politicians all the way up to John Boehner who indulged the birther bullshit of their caucus and constituency.

Haha....you do know where the birther controversy came from?

See much of the Obama "story" (just like the Elizabeth Warren story) was a manufactured pile of shite.   

When it suited them after he wrote his first book, his biography stated that he was born in Kenya (inside the cover of his own book)

Which the publisher stated was an error on their part and not info that Obama gave them. Tell us, do you think the average publisher will go back and recall and reprint a run of books by some new, unknown author to correct a fairly inconsequential error in the cover bio?

And it happened more than 15 years before he even ran for president. And it's not like the record hadn't been corrected years before he ran or Trump's "people" started finding "unbelievable things" in Hawaii in 2011.

Regardless though, you seem to be posting this to the effect that the right wing personal campaigns against Obama were justified. Is that the case?

If your publisher stated that you were born in Timbuktu, would you wait 15 years to correct it?

Obviously he was born in Hawaii, and even if he wasnt, hed still be eligible to run because his mother was a citizen

If I was to hazard a guess, Id say in his application to either Columbia or Harvard, he misrepresented where he was from in order to gain an edge in the admission process.  Exactly like liar Lizzie

Correct it where?

On the new editions? On all other references to his birthplace?

A NY Times article predating the book said he was born in Hawaii.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html)

And what advantage would he have gained in his application to Harvard or Columbia by stating he was Kenyan-born? A NY Times profile while he was still at Harvard would have been problematic if such an advantage existed and had been falsely availed of, would it not?

His records are sealed, so we will never know.

Why seal them if theres nothing to hide

Maybe he got an F he's embarrassed about.

I've a couple of early-years college results I'd like sealed myself.

Besides, is it typical for politicians to release their grades anyway, assuming by "sealed" you mean "unreleased"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 05, 2017, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2017, 05:54:23 PM
Maybe he got an F he's embarrassed about.


Fatwa?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 01:03:08 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-05/deutsche-bank-is-said-to-have-received-subpoena-on-client-trump

QuoteSpecial prosecutor Robert Mueller zeroed in on President Donald Trump's business dealings with Deutsche Bank AG as his investigation into alleged Russian meddling in U.S. elections widens.

Mueller issued a subpoena to Germany's largest lender several weeks ago, forcing the bank to submit documents on its relationship with Trump and his family, according to a person briefed on the matter, who asked not to be identified because the action has not been announced.

"Deutsche Bank always cooperates with investigating authorities in all countries," the lender said in a statement to Bloomberg Tuesday, declining to provide additional information.

You liberals posting your fake news  ::)



QuoteTrump attorney @JaySekulow tells CNN: "We have confirmed that the news reports that the Special Counsel had subpoenaed financial records relating to the President are false.  No subpoena has been issued or received. We have confirmed this with the bank and other sources."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 05, 2017, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:02:20 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 02:46:10 AM
Close run call between those let down by hope and change, and those waiting on making America great again.

Donors are doing pretty well now all the same. All eyes on Mueller, no one watching out for the poor, the environment, the refugee or the natural parks

FBI Just demoted a senior agent in the investigation for having sent anti Trump and pro Hillary texts during the campaign

Hes also the senior official in charge of the Hillary email investigation

I fvcking hate all these cvnts

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/02/politics/fbi-agent-removed-trump-investigation/index.html

The great Ben Stein weighs in on Obamacare.

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

Now add this, "Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens."

Ben Stein.

Thank you Mr Obama!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 05, 2017, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
Swallowing that Fox and Friends propaganda hook, line and sinker.

You can't even form an original thought in that head of yours  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Pot, Kettle, black!

You have some balls accusing anyone of listening to propaganda, or does liberal propaganda not count?

Never mind, dont bother responding, I have no time for you nor your posts!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 05, 2017, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:02:20 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 02:46:10 AM
Close run call between those let down by hope and change, and those waiting on making America great again.

Donors are doing pretty well now all the same. All eyes on Mueller, no one watching out for the poor, the environment, the refugee or the natural parks

FBI Just demoted a senior agent in the investigation for having sent anti Trump and pro Hillary texts during the campaign

Hes also the senior official in charge of the Hillary email investigation

I fvcking hate all these cvnts

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/02/politics/fbi-agent-removed-trump-investigation/index.html

The great Ben Stein weighs in on Obamacare.

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

Now add this, "Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens."

Ben Stein.

Thank you Mr Obama!

Liberals are just that mental that they see nothing wrong with it.
They want people with no documentation to have a vote for heavens sake!

It's a numbers game. The end result will be horrific.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 10:54:08 PM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
Swallowing that Fox and Friends propaganda hook, line and sinker.

You can't even form an original thought in that head of yours  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Pot, Kettle, black!

You have some balls accusing anyone of listening to propaganda, or does liberal propaganda not count?

Never mind, dont bother responding, I have no time for you nor your posts!


Play nice Stew - you know what happened to you a few weeks ago  :-X :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 05, 2017, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
Swallowing that Fox and Friends propaganda hook, line and sinker.

You can't even form an original thought in that head of yours  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Pot, Kettle, black!

You have some balls accusing anyone of listening to propaganda, or does liberal propaganda not count?

Never mind, dont bother responding, I have no time for you nor your posts!


Liberal propaganda good
Conservative propaganda bad

Hypocrisy doesn't seem to register with that lot.

Remember -
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-4KbC86AHDE/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on December 05, 2017, 11:08:55 PM
Fox is hilarious. Literally an Irishman talking about undocumented really grinds my gears. The Irish are all over the world undocumented, especially in the US. Pre 9/11 they were able to get citizenship easy but those that didn't are now stuck in a limbo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 05, 2017, 11:51:24 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 05, 2017, 11:08:55 PM
Fox is hilarious. Literally an Irishman talking about undocumented really grinds my gears. The Irish are all over the world undocumented, especially in the US. Pre 9/11 they were able to get citizenship easy but those that didn't are now stuck in a limbo.

Who gives a f**k that Irish people are undocumented all over the world? They should not be undocumented all over the world newbie! And being Irish has got nothing to do with someones opinion on undocumented people being somewhere they are not entitled to be either!

Keep your gears grinding kid, and as for people being 'stuck in limbo' f**k them, they can always come home or better still apply to become documented, they do it to themselves, no one forces them in limbo!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on December 06, 2017, 12:14:09 AM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 11:51:24 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 05, 2017, 11:08:55 PM
Fox is hilarious. Literally an Irishman talking about undocumented really grinds my gears. The Irish are all over the world undocumented, especially in the US. Pre 9/11 they were able to get citizenship easy but those that didn't are now stuck in a limbo.

Who gives a f**k that Irish people are undocumented all over the world? They should not be undocumented all over the world newbie! And being Irish has got nothing to do with someones opinion on undocumented people being somewhere they are not entitled to be either!

Keep your gears grinding kid, and as for people being 'stuck in limbo' f**k them, they can always come home or better still apply to become documented, they do it to themselves, no one forces them in limbo!

F**k them. That attitude sums up how you'd treat your fellow countryman. Emphasis on countryman. You're a real piece of work Stew. Stay classy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 06, 2017, 12:15:12 AM
Quotebetter still apply to become documented

Cos that's how it works, you just apply...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 06, 2017, 12:51:26 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 06, 2017, 12:15:12 AM
Quotebetter still apply to become documented

Cos that's how it works, you just apply...


Hahaha.....yes take your place in line-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on December 06, 2017, 12:54:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 06, 2017, 12:51:26 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 06, 2017, 12:15:12 AM
Quotebetter still apply to become documented

Cos that's how it works, you just apply...


Hahaha.....yes take your place in line-lol

"Excuse me Mr Visa hander out giver, my friend Stew says I can apply here to get my visa? What all do you need?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 06, 2017, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2017, 03:02:20 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 05, 2017, 02:46:10 AM
Close run call between those let down by hope and change, and those waiting on making America great again.

Donors are doing pretty well now all the same. All eyes on Mueller, no one watching out for the poor, the environment, the refugee or the natural parks

FBI Just demoted a senior agent in the investigation for having sent anti Trump and pro Hillary texts during the campaign

Hes also the senior official in charge of the Hillary email investigation

I fvcking hate all these cvnts

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/02/politics/fbi-agent-removed-trump-investigation/index.html

The great Ben Stein weighs in on Obamacare.

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

Now add this, "Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens."

Ben Stein.

Thank you Mr Obama!

1. Stein never said that.
2. Where is the evidence that illegals are receiving free health insurance under Obamacare?
3. Stein was great in Ferris Bueller. Not so much on political stuff. He is an idiot on scientific stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 06, 2017, 05:01:52 AM
See Meuller going back to basics if reports are be to believed:
Follow the money....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 06, 2017, 11:50:58 AM
Maybe that's why he just dropped a match into the Israel-Palestine powderkeg.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 06, 2017, 12:37:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2017, 11:50:58 AM
Maybe that's why he just dropped a match into the Israel-Palestine powderkeg.
I wonder how Saudi will react. Saudi is supposed to be the leader of Sunni Islam. Jerusalem is the 3rd most holy site after Mecca and Medina.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 06, 2017, 12:59:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 06, 2017, 05:01:52 AM
See Meuller going back to basics if reports are be to believed:
Follow the money....

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/59/62/f159625a7dd8e36709f6b44377c84bb0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 06, 2017, 01:06:46 PM
Just plugged my numbers into the WSJ Tax Bill calculator.......if its to be believed, Im going to be paying $2K more.......motherfvcker Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 06, 2017, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 06, 2017, 01:06:46 PM
Just plugged my numbers into the WSJ Tax Bill calculator.......if its to be believed, Im going to be paying $2K more.......motherfvcker Trump

That sucks dude. Apparently it's going to be a common occurrence in the northeast. You'd almost wonder if sticking it to the states with local/state taxes and high housing costs, i.e. blue states, was the point?? ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 06, 2017, 02:50:50 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 06, 2017, 12:14:09 AM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 11:51:24 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 05, 2017, 11:08:55 PM
Fox is hilarious. Literally an Irishman talking about undocumented really grinds my gears. The Irish are all over the world undocumented, especially in the US. Pre 9/11 they were able to get citizenship easy but those that didn't are now stuck in a limbo.

Who gives a f**k that Irish people are undocumented all over the world? They should not be undocumented all over the world newbie! And being Irish has got nothing to do with someones opinion on undocumented people being somewhere they are not entitled to be either!

Keep your gears grinding kid, and as for people being 'stuck in limbo' f**k them, they can always come home or better still apply to become documented, they do it to themselves, no one forces them in limbo!

F**k them. That attitude sums up how you'd treat your fellow countryman. Emphasis on countryman. You're a real piece of work Stew. Stay classy.

If you are illegal (i.e. undocumented) then you take and understand the risk of living an underground life.
There should be no legalisation of this status. You're giving the middle finger to legal citizens. You choose to break laws to suit yourself. That fucks it up for those who have played by the rules, paid their dues and did things in a fair manner.

I don't know why you want to make excuses for it bar you've done similar yourself and are trying to justify your actions.

I don't care which country this takes place in or who's doing it. It's just plain wrong.
There should be deportations for first time offenders and jail for second time offenders. That would cut out that shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 06, 2017, 02:54:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2017, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 06, 2017, 01:06:46 PM
Just plugged my numbers into the WSJ Tax Bill calculator.......if its to be believed, Im going to be paying $2K more.......motherfvcker Trump

That sucks dude. Apparently it's going to be a common occurrence in the northeast. You'd almost wonder if sticking it to the states with local/state taxes and high housing costs, i.e. blue states, was the point?? ::)

We went to a 15 year mortgage last year....thats probably what did me in

Im lucky that Im not a salaried employee....Im in sales, so the harder I work the more money I make (hypothetically anyway)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 06, 2017, 03:21:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 06, 2017, 01:06:46 PM
Just plugged my numbers into the WSJ Tax Bill calculator.......if its to be believed, Im going to be paying $2K more.......motherfvcker Trump
Mencken said democracy is the art of giving people what they want, good and hard.
The GOP is finished.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on December 06, 2017, 04:18:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 06, 2017, 02:50:50 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 06, 2017, 12:14:09 AM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 11:51:24 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 05, 2017, 11:08:55 PM
Fox is hilarious. Literally an Irishman talking about undocumented really grinds my gears. The Irish are all over the world undocumented, especially in the US. Pre 9/11 they were able to get citizenship easy but those that didn't are now stuck in a limbo.

Who gives a f**k that Irish people are undocumented all over the world? They should not be undocumented all over the world newbie! And being Irish has got nothing to do with someones opinion on undocumented people being somewhere they are not entitled to be either!

Keep your gears grinding kid, and as for people being 'stuck in limbo' f**k them, they can always come home or better still apply to become documented, they do it to themselves, no one forces them in limbo!

F**k them. That attitude sums up how you'd treat your fellow countryman. Emphasis on countryman. You're a real piece of work Stew. Stay classy.

If you are illegal (i.e. undocumented) then you take and understand the risk of living an underground life.
There should be no legalisation of this status. You're giving the middle finger to legal citizens. You choose to break laws to suit yourself. That f**ks it up for those who have played by the rules, paid their dues and did things in a fair manner.

I don't know why you want to make excuses for it bar you've done similar yourself and are trying to justify your actions.

I don't care which country this takes place in or who's doing it. It's just plain wrong.
There should be deportations for first time offenders and jail for second time offenders. That would cut out that shit.

Nope I am a legal working employee in another country. But I see first hand, day to day, these undocumented illegals. I just find it hard to fathom that a second-hand yank like yourself is so hard on undocumented people's when we come from a country renowned for emigration both legal and illegal. It just stinks of snobbery Fox. We had a recession 10 years which we are only coming out of now really, did you want the young men and women to live on the street during these times? I'm also assuming those leaving Ireland for the states during the famine should have had the boat turned around and sailed straight for the West Coast of Eire again if this is your opinion on illegal immigrants. You talk down to everyone else about reading and or watching liberal news channels, these liberal news channels don't even pick up the real problems in that cess-pit America, un-equal sentencing for drug charges due to race, homeless crisis, Opiod crisis. Not forgetting that their leader is basically leaving America open to all kinds of Muslim/Arab wrath due to this Jerusalem debacle, then we have the Russian links? But no all of these issues are trumped by illegal undocumented....you're a f***king toss-pot Foxy. I don't know what you do but I can imagine there's not a lottery to see who gets to sit beside you for a Samuel Adams on any given night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 06, 2017, 04:48:57 PM
A few stories today.

1. Looking bad for Al Franken. Should be gone by the end of the day I would expect.
2. The GOP House thinks federal reciprocal concealed carry laws trumping more strict local laws are a good thing, even if it means someone prohibited for good reason in one place can just go to another state with lax laws to get his permit. Preventing a violent ex-husband or a stalker from carrying a concealed weapon is apparently an infringement of his 2nd amendment rights.
3. MSNBC, the pussies, fold and fire Sam Seder on account of an obviously sarcastic tweet about Roman Polanski years ago, in the face of publicity from an alt-right troll with his own history of brazen, unapologetic racist tweets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 06, 2017, 05:39:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2017, 03:21:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 06, 2017, 01:06:46 PM
Just plugged my numbers into the WSJ Tax Bill calculator.......if its to be believed, Im going to be paying $2K more.......motherfvcker Trump
Mencken said democracy is the art of giving people what they want, good and hard.
The GOP is finished.

Everything needs to be looked at in perspective

Yes I may be paying more in taxes under the new plan, but I also earned more momey than I did last year, and my 401K has done very well with the stock market bounce.  I actually dont mind paying more taxes as long as its put to good use.....I just resent being told Im not paying my fair share when I getting hosed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 06, 2017, 05:47:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2017, 04:48:57 PM
A few stories today.

1. Looking bad for Al Franken. Should be gone by the end of the day I would expect.
2. The GOP House thinks federal reciprocal concealed carry laws trumping more strict local laws are a good thing, even if it means someone prohibited for good reason in one place can just go to another state with lax laws to get his permit. Preventing a violent ex-husband or a stalker from carrying a concealed weapon is apparently an infringement of his 2nd amendment rights.
3. MSNBC, the pussies, fold and fire Sam Seder on account of an obviously sarcastic tweet about Roman Polanski years ago, in the face of publicity from an alt-right troll with his own history of brazen, unapologetic racist tweets.

Said it when the story broke - he needs to walk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 06, 2017, 07:19:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2017, 04:48:57 PM
A few stories today.

1. Looking bad for Al Franken. Should be gone by the end of the day I would expect.
2. The GOP House thinks federal reciprocal concealed carry laws trumping more strict local laws are a good thing, even if it means someone prohibited for good reason in one place can just go to another state with lax laws to get his permit. Preventing a violent ex-husband or a stalker from carrying a concealed weapon is apparently an infringement of his 2nd amendment rights.
3. MSNBC, the pussies, fold and fire Sam Seder on account of an obviously sarcastic tweet about Roman Polanski years ago, in the face of publicity from an alt-right troll with his own history of brazen, unapologetic racist tweets.

You missed Jerusalem... As if the Muslim ban will stop them America is public enemy number 1 now. No doubt Trump will find something else to blame it on!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on December 06, 2017, 07:33:51 PM
The hape o' shite in the White House has really done it now!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: An Watcher on December 06, 2017, 08:39:29 PM
Donald Trump you're nothing but a c***!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 06, 2017, 09:00:57 PM
This is what happens when you elect a reality tv star to public office. It's bad when a literal cardboard cutout would do a better job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 06, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
Wow...definitely looks like Trump is willing to rip all the bandaids off
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 06, 2017, 11:16:21 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 06, 2017, 12:14:09 AM
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 11:51:24 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 05, 2017, 11:08:55 PM
Fox is hilarious. Literally an Irishman talking about undocumented really grinds my gears. The Irish are all over the world undocumented, especially in the US. Pre 9/11 they were able to get citizenship easy but those that didn't are now stuck in a limbo.

Who gives a f**k that Irish people are undocumented all over the world? They should not be undocumented all over the world newbie! And being Irish has got nothing to do with someones opinion on undocumented people being somewhere they are not entitled to be either!

Keep your gears grinding kid, and as for people being 'stuck in limbo' f**k them, they can always come home or better still apply to become documented, they do it to themselves, no one forces them in limbo!

F**k them. That attitude sums up how you'd treat your fellow countryman. Emphasis on countryman. You're a real piece of work Stew. Stay classy.

I dont give two shites about irish illegals anymore than I do Pakistani illegals, or English illegals, they are illegal and why should Irish illegals be thought of any more than some Turkish Illegal person for example?

Stay Classy??? WTF? I have no use for people being in  the states if they have no right to be there! What has that got to do with class and why does my opinion make me a real piece of worK? Is it because I dont fawn over the illegal Irish? Spare me!


I had two sisters over there illegally at one point and my opinion never changed one iota.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 07, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
so, whitey, fox and stew, how did you qualify to get there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 07, 2017, 09:07:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 07, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
so, whitey, fox and stew, how did you qualify to get there?
I applied for a visa and poof! There it was.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 07, 2017, 09:24:22 AM
Quote from: stew on December 07, 2017, 09:07:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 07, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
so, whitey, fox and stew, how did you qualify to get there?
I applied for a visa and poof! There it was.
Which poof?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 08, 2017, 12:25:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 07, 2017, 09:24:22 AM
Quote from: stew on December 07, 2017, 09:07:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 07, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
so, whitey, fox and stew, how did you qualify to get there?
I applied for a visa and poof! There it was.
Which poof?

The poof fairy that granted us permission to pay taxes for having jobs that afforded us the opportunity to pay taxes of course!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 08, 2017, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 07, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
so, whitey, fox and stew, how did you qualify to get there?

Green Card Lottery 1994
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 08, 2017, 03:32:15 AM
Quote from: stew on December 07, 2017, 09:07:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 07, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
so, whitey, fox and stew, how did you qualify to get there?
I applied for a visa and poof! There it was.

It would be ironic if you guys got your visas due to the hard work and lobbying of illegal Irish immigrants living in the U.S during the 80's and early 90 's!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 08, 2017, 09:26:46 AM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 08, 2017, 03:32:15 AM
Quote from: stew on December 07, 2017, 09:07:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 07, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
so, whitey, fox and stew, how did you qualify to get there?
I applied for a visa and poof! There it was.

It would be ironic if you guys got your visas due to the hard work and lobbying of illegal Irish immigrants living in the U.S during the 80's and early 90 's!

We applied and we got in, we did the thing right, we paid our taxes and worked our asses off two give out two girls every opportunity in life, which they took in spades, so I dont need the likes of you lecturing me on what I should have done or who I should have associated with thank you.

I did not want to go to the States, herself had a great job as a District nurse and I had my own thing going on for years before leaving Ireland for America, the house was bought and paid for and we were in great shape, the problem was the troubles got to us, we applied and got our visas and sold everything and left.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 08, 2017, 10:25:33 AM
Stew, I'm not lecturing you. What I'm trying to point out is that your stance on illegal immigrants is pretty extreme for a guy that might have been afforded one of the biggest breaks in his life due to the lobbying of illegal immigrants that where here before you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 08, 2017, 10:54:04 AM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 08, 2017, 10:25:33 AM
Stew, I'm not lecturing you. What I'm trying to point out is that your stance on illegal immigrants is pretty extreme for a guy that might have been afforded one of the biggest breaks in his life due to the lobbying of illegal immigrants that where here before you.


I did not get a break, I married an American citizen who was born in New York but who moved to Newry when she was 2, I did not want to go because as I told her it would take us five years to get back to were we were and what we had built in Ireland, I was wrong, it took ten.

Getting in was easy for us obviously, the only reason we went was my sisters best mate was killed by loyalist tramps in Belfast, I knew her all of my life and it appalled me, I did not want to live here after that no matter how the family was doing, it completely sickened me, so we moved to the USA and never looked back.

I had two sisters who went the other route, I watched them struggle, I watched them live in fear and get taken advantage of by illegal aliens who happened to get there before them and I myself at one point took a lad in from Armagh, we had one rule, one rule he had to follow, absolutely no drugs in the house, he lived rent free and never so much put his hand in his pocket to buy a bite to eat for four months until he brought drugs into the house and the second time he did it I threw him out ta fcuk, proceeded to tell the irish community what assholes we were!I met him three months ago in the local, he came over and chatted as if nothing had happened,I let it go, normally I would have brought it up but I let it go because it was a long time ago and I realised he did me a favour, he got himself out of our lives and we learned a valuable lesson about trying to help people, we were much more selective going forward.

I did not happen to come by my opinions on illegal immigrants one day sitting on my duff, I formed it based on my observations over many years and many cultures and to my dying day I will never believe for one second that a person should be in a country that did not welcome them, America should tighten its borders, it should vet fully those who would come into the country as I and mine were vetted and they should not kick out illegals that are there at the moment unless they are felons, as for the rest, treat them with dignity and if they support themselves and can prove that over a period of time they should grant them legal status for three years, after that point if they pay their taxes and are upstanding people that enhance the area in which they live I believe they should be granted permanent residency.

As for anyone who came in illegally after Trump got in, they should be tossed out, the USA must draw a line in the sand somewhere and if people are in danger in their own country they should apply for visas that support political refugees and I would hope they would get them if their cause was real.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 08, 2017, 11:42:51 AM
Stew, you were one of the lucky few that were allowed to come in here legally back then. Hundreds of thousands were not so lucky but they made it work through perseverance and stubbornness. Felons should be deported but the vast majority of illegal immigrants are law abiding people that contribute hugely to society. Many of the illegal Irish here back in the 80's became very successful people once they got their papers, some employing thousands of Americans citizens.
I have a friend who has a similar stance as you. He was living here illegally until 12 years ago, he married a U.S citizen and is now a police officer. He wants to deportations to begin ASAP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 08, 2017, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 08, 2017, 11:42:51 AM
Stew, you were one of the lucky few that were allowed to come in here legally back then. Hundreds of thousands were not so lucky but they made it work through perseverance and stubbornness. Felons should be deported but the vast majority of illegal immigrants are law abiding people that contribute hugely to society. Many of the illegal Irish here back in the 80's became very successful people once they got their papers, some employing thousands of Americans citizens.
I have a friend who has a similar stance as you. He was living here illegally until 12 years ago, he married a U.S citizen and is now a police officer. He wants to deportations to begin ASAP.

Deportations of who? Illegals in general or illegal felons? I hope it is the latter.

I have a tremendous problem with ripping families apart, to me you have to start somewhere, January the 20th or whenever this bullshit arttist became President seems as good as any to me, get rid of illegal felons across the board and grant amnesty to everyone else who was here prior to the inaugeration day of Trump who is working and fit to look after themselves, make them pay taxes and contribute to society and then grant them permanent status when they show they are responsible citizens in their community.

No matter what you do it is not going to be perfect, but you have to start somewhere!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 08, 2017, 11:56:30 AM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 08, 2017, 11:42:51 AM
Stew, you were one of the lucky few that were allowed to come in here legally back then. Hundreds of thousands were not so lucky but they made it work through perseverance and stubbornness. Felons should be deported but the vast majority of illegal immigrants are law abiding people that contribute hugely to society. Many of the illegal Irish here back in the 80's became very successful people once they got their papers, some employing thousands of Americans citizens.
I have a friend who has a similar stance as you. He was living here illegally until 12 years ago, he married a U.S citizen and is now a police officer. He wants to deportations to begin ASAP.

I was not lucky, I never wanted to be there in the first place, I would have been just as happy in England or Scotland to be honest, the place did not matter to me, it did to her, I would have preferred to stay local, funnily enough the one place I was adamant we not live in was the republic.

I was not lucky in any way on this, it placed a strain on us because I did not want to be there, nothing against the USA but I did not want to live there, as it turns out it was a brilliant move because I got to make the best friends I have ever had in some cases and my children got to grow up in a fantastic town amongst great people, I got to get paid for my lifes passion and have a wonderful job I loved as well and I got to see my children because beautiful, intelligent young women imbued with that inner confidence Americans seem to have in spades, i have no complaints other than I used to go to EVERY Armagh match and every Harps match, for many years, even as a married man and I missed that more than any of you can imagine, the nearest GFC to me was 200 mile away in Chicago and that sucked!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 08, 2017, 12:24:15 PM
I don't get it stew. You're talking here about amnesty and treating "upstanding" illegals with dignity, yet a few days ago you were ranting that ALL aspects of sanctuary city policies were immoral.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 08, 2017, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2017, 12:24:15 PM
I don't get it stew. You're talking here about amnesty and treating "upstanding" illegals with dignity, yet a few days ago you were ranting that ALL aspects of sanctuary city policies were immoral.

They are immoral, I get one go at life, as do we all, I believe everyone deserves to be treated with dignity with the exception of paedos,bent politicians and terrorists!

Sanctuary cities are despicable, San Francisco just proved that, that does not mean that people who take advantage of the liberal dogshit policies of such cities should be treated in any other way than with dignity!

You liberals seem to think non like minded people are hrartless bastards! We are not, we just have different ideas on how issues should be handled.

Hope this answers your question.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 08, 2017, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: stew on December 08, 2017, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2017, 12:24:15 PM
I don't get it stew. You're talking here about amnesty and treating "upstanding" illegals with dignity, yet a few days ago you were ranting that ALL aspects of sanctuary city policies were immoral.

They are immoral, I get one go at life, as do we all, I believe everyone deserves to be treated with dignity with the exception of paedos,bent politicians and terrorists!

Sanctuary cities are despicable, San Francisco just proved that, that does not mean that people who take advantage of the liberal dogshit policies of such cities should be treated in any other way than with dignity!

You liberals seem to think non like minded people are hrartless b**tards! We are not, we just have different ideas on how issues should be handled.

Hope this answers your question.

Not really.

What you seem to be missing (whether deliberately or not) is that the whole raison d'etre of sanctuary city policies IS to treat illegals with dignity.

And San Francisco did not prove that sanctuary cities are despicable. It proved that, as with any policy on any topic, it can be taken too far. An idiotic, ideologically-based refusal to hold and turn over a felon who had been deported on multiple previous occasions is not the same thing as allowing someone to report a crime or cooperate with the cops or get help with a criminal, exploitive landlord without having their residency status investigated.

I see nothing noble or dignified in coercing "upstanding" illegal immigrants into living in fear of criminals and subject to exploitation and abuse all because they can't seek help or assist their families and friends in seeking help out of fear of being deported, often leaving their families behind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 08, 2017, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: stew on December 08, 2017, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on December 08, 2017, 11:42:51 AM
Stew, you were one of the lucky few that were allowed to come in here legally back then. Hundreds of thousands were not so lucky but they made it work through perseverance and stubbornness. Felons should be deported but the vast majority of illegal immigrants are law abiding people that contribute hugely to society. Many of the illegal Irish here back in the 80's became very successful people once they got their papers, some employing thousands of Americans citizens.
I have a friend who has a similar stance as you. He was living here illegally until 12 years ago, he married a U.S citizen and is now a police officer. He wants to deportations to begin ASAP.

Deportations of who? Illegals in general or illegal felons? I hope it is the latter.

I have a tremendous problem with ripping families apart, to me you have to start somewhere, January the 20th or whenever this bullshit arttist became President seems as good as any to me, get rid of illegal felons across the board and grant amnesty to everyone else who was here prior to the inaugeration day of Trump who is working and fit to look after themselves, make them pay taxes and contribute to society and then grant them permanent status when they show they are responsible citizens in their community.

No matter what you do it is not going to be perfect, but you have to start somewhere!

Yes all illegals, he voted for Trump as well. It's a head scratcher 😊
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 AM
I see that Roy Moore's accuser is  now admitting she doctored the "inscription" to her Year book.....wow it took 3 weeks for her to admit that

CNN also had a major "correction" today

There's enough real fvckin $hit to report on.....why in Gods name are they making shit up and letting Trumps and Moore say I told you so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 AM
I see that Roy Moore's accuser is  now admitting she doctored the "inscription" to her Year book.....wow it took 3 weeks for her to admit that

CNN also had a major "correction" today

There's enough real fvckin $hit to report on.....why in Gods name are they making shit up and letting Trumps and Moore say I told you so

Given that Moore wrote "Christmas 1977" and the other creepy stuff, with the (one of nine) accusers writing the location and actual date, I'm not sure how that helps him with any honest person, but I guess the average conspiracy-minded Republican will take that as read that it's all bullshit.

But let them enjoy their morally bankrupt short term win.

What did CNN do?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 09, 2017, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2017, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: stew on December 08, 2017, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2017, 12:24:15 PM
I don't get it stew. You're talking here about amnesty and treating "upstanding" illegals with dignity, yet a few days ago you were ranting that ALL aspects of sanctuary city policies were immoral.

They are immoral, I get one go at life, as do we all, I believe everyone deserves to be treated with dignity with the exception of paedos,bent politicians and terrorists!

Sanctuary cities are despicable, San Francisco just proved that, that does not mean that people who take advantage of the liberal dogshit policies of such cities should be treated in any other way than with dignity!

You liberals seem to think non like minded people are hrartless b**tards! We are not, we just have different ideas on how issues should be handled.

Hope this answers your question.

Not really.

What you seem to be missing (whether deliberately or not) is that the whole raison d'etre of sanctuary city policies IS to treat illegals with dignity.

That is bullshit, it has nothing to do with dignity and everything to do with garnering votes for one party over another, the lliberals dont give a shite about illegal aliens save for their voting potential.

And San Francisco did not prove that sanctuary cities are despicable. It proved that, as with any policy on any topic, it can be taken too far. An idiotic, ideologically-based refusal to hold and turn over a felon who had been deported on multiple previous occasions is not the same thing as allowing someone to report a crime or cooperate with the cops or get help with a criminal, exploitive landlord without having their residency status investigated.

I see nothing noble or dignified in coercing "upstanding" illegal immigrants into living in fear of criminals and subject to exploitation and abuse all because they can't seek help or assist their families and friends in seeking help out of fear of being deported, often leaving their families behind.

They put themselves in this situation, not a single republican grabbed a single one of them and forced them into exploitation and abuse, by enabling htem the democrats are allowing the exploitation and abuse to happen and all for their vote! Shame.

And dont play dumb with this shit about they canot go to the cops for fear of deportation! They have hotlines they can call to make that claim a nonsense, they simply choose not to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 AM
I see that Roy Moore's accuser is  now admitting she doctored the "inscription" to her Year book.....wow it took 3 weeks for her to admit that

CNN also had a major "correction" today

There's enough real fvckin $hit to report on.....why in Gods name are they making shit up and letting Trumps and Moore say I told you so

Given that Moore wrote "Christmas 1977" and the other creepy stuff, with the (one of nine) accusers writing the location and actual date, I'm not sure how that helps him with any honest person, but I guess the average conspiracy-minded Republican will take that as read that it's all bullshit.

But let them enjoy their morally bankrupt short term win.

What did CNN do?

So why have they (the accuser and Aldred) been lying for three weeks swearing up and down it was all Moore's handwriting?

Why didn't she explain on Day 1 that she had altered the inscription?

And the so called handwriting expert quoted in the WAPO said it was all original.

I also read somewhere that she also changed the timeline of events. Supposedly it now happened when she was 16 instead of 14.

For the Alabama voters, who were on the fence you have now injected just enough doubt for them to hold their nose and vote for Moore. This could be worth 5-10 points for Moore.

I'm sure that the Republicans who all of a sudden came out for Moore last week knew this was coming.  Don't be surprised if something else comes out that will favor Moore.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2017, 03:12:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 AM
I see that Roy Moore's accuser is  now admitting she doctored the "inscription" to her Year book.....wow it took 3 weeks for her to admit that

CNN also had a major "correction" today

There's enough real fvckin $hit to report on.....why in Gods name are they making shit up and letting Trumps and Moore say I told you so

Given that Moore wrote "Christmas 1977" and the other creepy stuff, with the (one of nine) accusers writing the location and actual date, I'm not sure how that helps him with any honest person, but I guess the average conspiracy-minded Republican will take that as read that it's all bullshit.

But let them enjoy their morally bankrupt short term win.

What did CNN do?

So why have they (the accuser and Aldred) been lying for three weeks swearing up and down it was all Moore's handwriting?

Why didn't she explain on Day 1 that she had altered the inscription?

And the so called handwriting expert quoted in the WAPO said it was all original.

I also read somewhere that she also changed the timeline of events. Supposedly it now happened when she was 16 instead of 14.

For the Alabama voters, who were on the fence you have now injected just enough doubt for them to hold their nose and vote for Moore. This could be worth 5-10 points for Moore.

I'm sure that the Republicans who all of a sudden came out for Moore last week knew this was coming.  Don't be surprised if something else comes out that will favor Moore.

I've no idea why they lied. It's not as if the accusation wasn't strong to begin with or the truth wouldn't come out.

But, as I said this morning and a couple of weeks ago when we discussed this, I do not see how this gets Moore off the hook except with the willfully blind.

And the only reason the GOP in general have rowed back in behind Moore is that they're terrified of Trump and his base.

Good luck to them, they're selling their souls.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2017, 03:18:24 PM
Quote from: stew on December 09, 2017, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2017, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: stew on December 08, 2017, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2017, 12:24:15 PM
I don't get it stew. You're talking here about amnesty and treating "upstanding" illegals with dignity, yet a few days ago you were ranting that ALL aspects of sanctuary city policies were immoral.

They are immoral, I get one go at life, as do we all, I believe everyone deserves to be treated with dignity with the exception of paedos,bent politicians and terrorists!

Sanctuary cities are despicable, San Francisco just proved that, that does not mean that people who take advantage of the liberal dogshit policies of such cities should be treated in any other way than with dignity!

You liberals seem to think non like minded people are hrartless b**tards! We are not, we just have different ideas on how issues should be handled.

Hope this answers your question.

Not really.

What you seem to be missing (whether deliberately or not) is that the whole raison d'etre of sanctuary city policies IS to treat illegals with dignity.

That is bullshit, it has nothing to do with dignity and everything to do with garnering votes for one party over another, the lliberals dont give a shite about illegal aliens save for their voting potential.

And San Francisco did not prove that sanctuary cities are despicable. It proved that, as with any policy on any topic, it can be taken too far. An idiotic, ideologically-based refusal to hold and turn over a felon who had been deported on multiple previous occasions is not the same thing as allowing someone to report a crime or cooperate with the cops or get help with a criminal, exploitive landlord without having their residency status investigated.

I see nothing noble or dignified in coercing "upstanding" illegal immigrants into living in fear of criminals and subject to exploitation and abuse all because they can't seek help or assist their families and friends in seeking help out of fear of being deported, often leaving their families behind.

They put themselves in this situation, not a single republican grabbed a single one of them and forced them into exploitation and abuse, by enabling htem the democrats are allowing the exploitation and abuse to happen and all for their vote! Shame.

And dont play dumb with this shit about they canot go to the cops for fear of deportation! They have hotlines they can call to make that claim a nonsense, they simply choose not to.

FFS what good is a hotline when witnesses won't appear or offer further cooperation? You think authorities can prosecute someone based on just a hotline tip?? Talk about playing dumb!!

And your logic is failing you with the first paragraph. How the hell can facilitating fighting back against abuse of and criminality towards illegals be responsible for perpetuating it while making people afraid to fight back be helpful in combatting it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 09, 2017, 06:47:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 03:12:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 AM
I see that Roy Moore's accuser is  now admitting she doctored the "inscription" to her Year book.....wow it took 3 weeks for her to admit that

CNN also had a major "correction" today

There's enough real fvckin $hit to report on.....why in Gods name are they making shit up and letting Trumps and Moore say I told you so

Given that Moore wrote "Christmas 1977" and the other creepy stuff, with the (one of nine) accusers writing the location and actual date, I'm not sure how that helps him with any honest person, but I guess the average conspiracy-minded Republican will take that as read that it's all bullshit.

But let them enjoy their morally bankrupt short term win.

What did CNN do?

So why have they (the accuser and Aldred) been lying for three weeks swearing up and down it was all Moore's handwriting?

Why didn't she explain on Day 1 that she had altered the inscription?

And the so called handwriting expert quoted in the WAPO said it was all original.

I also read somewhere that she also changed the timeline of events. Supposedly it now happened when she was 16 instead of 14.

For the Alabama voters, who were on the fence you have now injected just enough doubt for them to hold their nose and vote for Moore. This could be worth 5-10 points for Moore.

I'm sure that the Republicans who all of a sudden came out for Moore last week knew this was coming.  Don't be surprised if something else comes out that will favor Moore.

I've no idea why they lied. It's not as if the accusation wasn't strong to begin with or the truth wouldn't come out.

But, as I said this morning and a couple of weeks ago when we discussed this, I do not see how this gets Moore off the hook except with the willfully blind.

And the only reason the GOP in general have rowed back in behind Moore is that they're terrified of Trump and his base.

Good luck to them, they're selling their souls.

So if there are 9 credible witnesses why have they been lying for 3 weeks about the inscription?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2017, 07:11:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 06:47:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 03:12:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 AM
I see that Roy Moore's accuser is  now admitting she doctored the "inscription" to her Year book.....wow it took 3 weeks for her to admit that

CNN also had a major "correction" today

There's enough real fvckin $hit to report on.....why in Gods name are they making shit up and letting Trumps and Moore say I told you so

Given that Moore wrote "Christmas 1977" and the other creepy stuff, with the (one of nine) accusers writing the location and actual date, I'm not sure how that helps him with any honest person, but I guess the average conspiracy-minded Republican will take that as read that it's all bullshit.

But let them enjoy their morally bankrupt short term win.

What did CNN do?

So why have they (the accuser and Aldred) been lying for three weeks swearing up and down it was all Moore's handwriting?

Why didn't she explain on Day 1 that she had altered the inscription?

And the so called handwriting expert quoted in the WAPO said it was all original.

I also read somewhere that she also changed the timeline of events. Supposedly it now happened when she was 16 instead of 14.

For the Alabama voters, who were on the fence you have now injected just enough doubt for them to hold their nose and vote for Moore. This could be worth 5-10 points for Moore.

I'm sure that the Republicans who all of a sudden came out for Moore last week knew this was coming.  Don't be surprised if something else comes out that will favor Moore.

I've no idea why they lied. It's not as if the accusation wasn't strong to begin with or the truth wouldn't come out.

But, as I said this morning and a couple of weeks ago when we discussed this, I do not see how this gets Moore off the hook except with the willfully blind.

And the only reason the GOP in general have rowed back in behind Moore is that they're terrified of Trump and his base.

Good luck to them, they're selling their souls.

So if there are 9 credible witnesses why have they been lying for 3 weeks about the inscription?

Why don't you tell us whitey?

Are all of the accusers making it up?

Is this woman (who claims to have been a Trump supporter herself) making up his signature and the rest of the inscription?

Are you with Trump and Moore now that the accusers (of both men -more than two dozen) are all lying?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2017, 03:07:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 07:11:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 06:47:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 03:12:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 AM
I see that Roy Moore's accuser is  now admitting she doctored the "inscription" to her Year book.....wow it took 3 weeks for her to admit that

CNN also had a major "correction" today

There's enough real fvckin $hit to report on.....why in Gods name are they making shit up and letting Trumps and Moore say I told you so

Given that Moore wrote "Christmas 1977" and the other creepy stuff, with the (one of nine) accusers writing the location and actual date, I'm not sure how that helps him with any honest person, but I guess the average conspiracy-minded Republican will take that as read that it's all bullshit.

But let them enjoy their morally bankrupt short term win.

What did CNN do?

So why have they (the accuser and Aldred) been lying for three weeks swearing up and down it was all Moore's handwriting?

Why didn't she explain on Day 1 that she had altered the inscription?

And the so called handwriting expert quoted in the WAPO said it was all original.

I also read somewhere that she also changed the timeline of events. Supposedly it now happened when she was 16 instead of 14.

For the Alabama voters, who were on the fence you have now injected just enough doubt for them to hold their nose and vote for Moore. This could be worth 5-10 points for Moore.

I'm sure that the Republicans who all of a sudden came out for Moore last week knew this was coming.  Don't be surprised if something else comes out that will favor Moore.

I've no idea why they lied. It's not as if the accusation wasn't strong to begin with or the truth wouldn't come out.

But, as I said this morning and a couple of weeks ago when we discussed this, I do not see how this gets Moore off the hook except with the willfully blind.

And the only reason the GOP in general have rowed back in behind Moore is that they're terrified of Trump and his base.

Good luck to them, they're selling their souls.

So if there are 9 credible witnesses why have they been lying for 3 weeks about the inscription?

Why don't you tell us whitey?

Are all of the accusers making it up?

Is this woman (who claims to have been a Trump supporter herself) making up his signature and the rest of the inscription?

Are you with Trump and Moore now that the accusers (of both men -more than two dozen) are all lying?

Well if I were to hazard a guess, I would say that the inscription was viewed as the nail
In the coffin of Roy Moore. Only problem was that the nail was compromised by the addition. So instead of explaining it correctly they went for the kill and it backfired

I would be shocked if Moore doesn't win this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 10, 2017, 04:11:06 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/10/robert-mueller-trump-special-counsel-russia

Fox, which has effectively been a state news network, is cementing the base that will stay with Trump. If the base holds, it's going to be very hard for Republicans to jump ship."
Matthew Miller, a partner at strategic advisory firm Vianovo and former justice department spokesman, agreed.
"The president has been trying to delegitimise the justice department going back to the summer," he said. "In the last couple of months we've seen the rest of the Republican party join in and follow his lead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
Obama has lost the plot!! Trying to take credit for President Trumps success and THANKING HIMSELF!! Hope you liberals are enjoying his meltdown!! He's insane.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/6/thanks-obama-former-president-credits-himself-stro/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 05:03:36 PM
Look like Trump has got to him. Obama even came out with this pile of poo trying to smear and compare Trump with Hitler. Obama's credibility is now in tatters.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/08/barack-obama-accused-comparing-donald-trump-hitler/


The kenyan should be ashamed of himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2017, 06:01:00 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/10/us/politics/trump-dave-weigel.html

More fake news from MSNBC.........are these fvcking idiots are  actually helping Trump at this point
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 10, 2017, 06:12:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
Obama has lost the plot!! Trying to take credit for President Trumps success. What a joker.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/6/thanks-obama-former-president-credits-himself-stro/
according to the FT any decent economic performance is a hangover from Obama.
Let's see how well the economy is doing in a year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 10, 2017, 06:24:37 PM
foxy and whitey.

can Jeff Bezos also fire trump for his actual (non funny) completely false tweets?


first one on the economy is pure fishing - unless you are suggesting that some implemented legislation by Trump caused the economy to grow before he announced he was running for office?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2017, 06:51:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2017, 06:01:00 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/10/us/politics/trump-dave-weigel.html

More fake news from MSNBC.........are these fvcking idiots are  actually helping Trump at this point

MSNBC??

I only see the Post guy and CNN mentioned there.

I would love to see one of these outfits that actually correct the record challenge Trump on his own personal and numerous blatant falsehoods which invariably go uncorrected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2017, 06:53:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2017, 03:07:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 07:11:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 06:47:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 03:12:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 AM
I see that Roy Moore's accuser is  now admitting she doctored the "inscription" to her Year book.....wow it took 3 weeks for her to admit that

CNN also had a major "correction" today

There's enough real fvckin $hit to report on.....why in Gods name are they making shit up and letting Trumps and Moore say I told you so

Given that Moore wrote "Christmas 1977" and the other creepy stuff, with the (one of nine) accusers writing the location and actual date, I'm not sure how that helps him with any honest person, but I guess the average conspiracy-minded Republican will take that as read that it's all bullshit.

But let them enjoy their morally bankrupt short term win.

What did CNN do?

So why have they (the accuser and Aldred) been lying for three weeks swearing up and down it was all Moore's handwriting?

Why didn't she explain on Day 1 that she had altered the inscription?

And the so called handwriting expert quoted in the WAPO said it was all original.

I also read somewhere that she also changed the timeline of events. Supposedly it now happened when she was 16 instead of 14.

For the Alabama voters, who were on the fence you have now injected just enough doubt for them to hold their nose and vote for Moore. This could be worth 5-10 points for Moore.

I'm sure that the Republicans who all of a sudden came out for Moore last week knew this was coming.  Don't be surprised if something else comes out that will favor Moore.

I've no idea why they lied. It's not as if the accusation wasn't strong to begin with or the truth wouldn't come out.

But, as I said this morning and a couple of weeks ago when we discussed this, I do not see how this gets Moore off the hook except with the willfully blind.

And the only reason the GOP in general have rowed back in behind Moore is that they're terrified of Trump and his base.

Good luck to them, they're selling their souls.

So if there are 9 credible witnesses why have they been lying for 3 weeks about the inscription?

Why don't you tell us whitey?

Are all of the accusers making it up?

Is this woman (who claims to have been a Trump supporter herself) making up his signature and the rest of the inscription?

Are you with Trump and Moore now that the accusers (of both men -more than two dozen) are all lying?

Well if I were to hazard a guess, I would say that the inscription was viewed as the nail
In the coffin of Roy Moore. Only problem was that the nail was compromised by the addition. So instead of explaining it correctly they went for the kill and it backfired

I would be shocked if Moore doesn't win this

He was winning it no matter what. The stuff about the inscription just gives these people a fig leaf the size of a fingernail to cover themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2017, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 10, 2017, 06:12:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
Obama has lost the plot!! Trying to take credit for President Trumps success. What a joker.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/6/thanks-obama-former-president-credits-himself-stro/
according to the FT any decent economic performance is a hangover from Obama.
Let's see how well the economy is doing in a year.

Indeed.

(https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-states-gdp-growth.png?s=gdp+cqoq&v=201711291343v&d1=20070101&d2=20171231)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 07:15:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2017, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 10, 2017, 06:12:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
Obama has lost the plot!! Trying to take credit for President Trumps success. What a joker.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/6/thanks-obama-former-president-credits-himself-stro/
according to the FT any decent economic performance is a hangover from Obama.
Let's see how well the economy is doing in a year.

Indeed.

(https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-states-gdp-growth.png?s=gdp+cqoq&v=201711291343v&d1=20070101&d2=20171231)

CorelDraw or Microsoft Paint ??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on December 11, 2017, 04:37:58 PM
https://twitter.com/CBSNews (https://twitter.com/CBSNews)

Interesting press conference from some of Trumps accusers - incredible that he seems teflon on it

 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 11, 2017, 04:59:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 07:15:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2017, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 10, 2017, 06:12:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
Obama has lost the plot!! Trying to take credit for President Trumps success. What a joker.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/6/thanks-obama-former-president-credits-himself-stro/
according to the FT any decent economic performance is a hangover from Obama.
Let's see how well the economy is doing in a year.

Indeed.

(https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-states-gdp-growth.png?s=gdp+cqoq&v=201711291343v&d1=20070101&d2=20171231)

CorelDraw or Microsoft Paint ??


https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2017, 05:16:47 PM
Quote from: dec on December 11, 2017, 04:59:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 07:15:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2017, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 10, 2017, 06:12:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
Obama has lost the plot!! Trying to take credit for President Trumps success. What a joker.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/6/thanks-obama-former-president-credits-himself-stro/
according to the FT any decent economic performance is a hangover from Obama.
Let's see how well the economy is doing in a year.

Indeed.

(https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-states-gdp-growth.png?s=gdp+cqoq&v=201711291343v&d1=20070101&d2=20171231)

CorelDraw or Microsoft Paint ??


https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth

Why did you bother?

Its pointless. He's a troll.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 11, 2017, 05:27:02 PM
I see Trump's accusers have come out again... Where have they been for the last year??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 11, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2017, 05:27:02 PM
I see Trump's accusers have come out again... Where have they been for the last year??

They had to wait first for the Democrats to regain the high moral ground as it pertains to the issue of sexual assault. They had lost it for 20/30 years with their unwavering loyalty to Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy

They just got it back last week when they forced Al Franken to resign
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2017, 05:27:02 PM
I see Trump's accusers have come out again... Where have they been for the last year??

They had to wait first for the Democrats to regain the high moral ground as it pertains to the issue of sexual assault. They had lost it for 20/30 years with their unwavering loyalty to Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy

They just got it back last week when they forced Al Franken to resign

Nothing stopping the GOP following suit amidst what is looking like a major cultural turning point. This should not be a partisan issue. If the Dems seize the high ground, it will only because the GOP refuse to join them there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2017, 05:27:02 PM
I see Trump's accusers have come out again... Where have they been for the last year??

They had to wait first for the Democrats to regain the high moral ground as it pertains to the issue of sexual assault. They had lost it for 20/30 years with their unwavering loyalty to Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy

They just got it back last week when they forced Al Franken to resign

Nothing stopping the GOP following suit amidst what is looking like a major cultural turning point. This should not be a partisan issue. If the Dems seize the high ground, it will only because the GOP refuse to join them there.

Hahaha....forcing Franken out when his replacement gets to be handpicked by the Democratic governor required a lot of courage on their end. I knew something was up last week. 

Looks like maybe the Russian angle isn't working for them

Time for plan b
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2017, 05:27:02 PM
I see Trump's accusers have come out again... Where have they been for the last year??

They had to wait first for the Democrats to regain the high moral ground as it pertains to the issue of sexual assault. They had lost it for 20/30 years with their unwavering loyalty to Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy

They just got it back last week when they forced Al Franken to resign

Nothing stopping the GOP following suit amidst what is looking like a major cultural turning point. This should not be a partisan issue. If the Dems seize the high ground, it will only because the GOP refuse to join them there.

Hahaha....forcing Franken out when his replacement gets to be handpicked by the Democratic governor required a lot of courage on their end. I knew something was up last week. 

Looks like maybe the Russian angle isn't working for them

Time for plan b

So... what... the GOP SHOULDN'T bother trying to get with the times and take a stand against sexual assault and harrassment? Its all political, so it doesn't matter?? They shouldn't even bother trying to neutralize it, even if only for political reasons? I'm confused.

And Franken was seated until 2020. Now the Dems have yet another seat to defend next year (and then again in 2020), one which Franken took months of delay to win originally. You think they're happily just going to turn over a stone to find a candidate as popular and capable as Franken? I'd say the GOP are planning to give MN a serious go, especially having done very well in WI in recent times. Doesn't mean they'll win, but it will at the very least take resources away from some of the seats Dems are defending in red states.

As for Moore, there was nothing stopping the GOP getting together and doing a serious write-in campaign. Some of them even wavered and encouraged this. But once Trump got involved, it was Moore all the way, with a few noble exceptions like the senior Senator from Alabama. So spare us the whinging about motives, especially given the climate under which this is taking place.

But rather than your whining about playing politics and plan B's, why don't YOU tell us what SHOULD be happening here?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2017, 05:27:02 PM
I see Trump's accusers have come out again... Where have they been for the last year??

They had to wait first for the Democrats to regain the high moral ground as it pertains to the issue of sexual assault. They had lost it for 20/30 years with their unwavering loyalty to Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy

They just got it back last week when they forced Al Franken to resign

Nothing stopping the GOP following suit amidst what is looking like a major cultural turning point. This should not be a partisan issue. If the Dems seize the high ground, it will only because the GOP refuse to join them there.

Hahaha....forcing Franken out when his replacement gets to be handpicked by the Democratic governor required a lot of courage on their end. I knew something was up last week. 

Looks like maybe the Russian angle isn't working for them

Time for plan b

So... what... the GOP SHOULDN'T bother trying to get with the times and take a stand against sexual assault and harrassment? Its all political, so it doesn't matter?? They shouldn't even bother trying to neutralize it, even if only for political reasons? I'm confused.

And Franken was seated until 2020. Now the Dems have yet another seat to defend next year (and then again in 2020), one which Franken took months of delay to win originally. You think they're happily just going to turn over a stone to find a candidate as popular and capable as Franken? I'd say the GOP are planning to give MN a serious go, especially having done very well in WI in recent times. Doesn't mean they'll win, but it will at the very least take resources away from some of the seats Dems are defending in red states.

As for Moore, there was nothing stopping the GOP getting together and doing a serious write-in campaign. Some of them even wavered and encouraged this. But once Trump got involved, it was Moore all the way, with a few noble exceptions like the senior Senator from Alabama. So spare us the whinging about motives, especially given the climate under which this is taking place.

But rather than your whining about playing politics and plan B's, why don't YOU tell us what SHOULD be happening here?

Who's whining?

I am quite enjoying seeing the liberals lose their mind at the prospect of Roy Moore in the Senate. 

All the time they cried wolf about Republicans over the past few years is blowing up spectacularly in their faces.

Mitt Romney was a woman hater of the highest order because he had folders full of females  resumes and allowed his female employees flexible schedules if they wanted to leave early to have dinner with their families

And as for that John Kasich, "housewives" came out of their kitchens to help him get elected, so fvck him too

At the end of the day the Republican Party is fvcked.....maybe Trumps only (and parting gift) will be 2 or 3 Supreme Court Justices. He needs Roy Moore to accomplish that goal

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2017, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2017, 05:27:02 PM
I see Trump's accusers have come out again... Where have they been for the last year??

They had to wait first for the Democrats to regain the high moral ground as it pertains to the issue of sexual assault. They had lost it for 20/30 years with their unwavering loyalty to Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy

They just got it back last week when they forced Al Franken to resign

Nothing stopping the GOP following suit amidst what is looking like a major cultural turning point. This should not be a partisan issue. If the Dems seize the high ground, it will only because the GOP refuse to join them there.

Hahaha....forcing Franken out when his replacement gets to be handpicked by the Democratic governor required a lot of courage on their end. I knew something was up last week. 

Looks like maybe the Russian angle isn't working for them

Time for plan b

So... what... the GOP SHOULDN'T bother trying to get with the times and take a stand against sexual assault and harrassment? Its all political, so it doesn't matter?? They shouldn't even bother trying to neutralize it, even if only for political reasons? I'm confused.

And Franken was seated until 2020. Now the Dems have yet another seat to defend next year (and then again in 2020), one which Franken took months of delay to win originally. You think they're happily just going to turn over a stone to find a candidate as popular and capable as Franken? I'd say the GOP are planning to give MN a serious go, especially having done very well in WI in recent times. Doesn't mean they'll win, but it will at the very least take resources away from some of the seats Dems are defending in red states.

As for Moore, there was nothing stopping the GOP getting together and doing a serious write-in campaign. Some of them even wavered and encouraged this. But once Trump got involved, it was Moore all the way, with a few noble exceptions like the senior Senator from Alabama. So spare us the whinging about motives, especially given the climate under which this is taking place.

But rather than your whining about playing politics and plan B's, why don't YOU tell us what SHOULD be happening here?

Who's whining?

I am quite enjoying seeing the liberals lose their mind at the prospect of Roy Moore in the Senate. 

All the time they cried wolf about Republicans over the past few years is blowing up spectacularly in their faces.

Mitt Romney was a woman hater of the highest order because he had folders full of resumes and allowed his female employers flexible schedules if they wanted to leave early to have dinner with their families

And as for that John Kasich, "housewives" came out of their kitchens to help him get elected, so fvck him too

At the end of the day the Republican Party is fvcked.....maybe Trumps only (and parting gift) will be 2 or 3 Supreme Court Justices. He needs Roy Moore to accomplish that goal

You're questioning the motives of the Democrats on this issue, ignoring the vast cultural groundswell under which this is all taking place. If the Dems kept Franken and Conyers on, you'd be screaming hypocrisy. After them giving them the boot, you're basically doing the same. Fine.

But you're refusing to address my point that if this is all purely political or opportunistic (or even partially), then what is stopping the GOP doing the same? You're refusing to tell us what the GOP, whom you generally support, SHOULD be doing.

You are the one who should be losing your mind over Moore. The man is a disgrace to conservatism. Don't give too much of a f**k about Moore per se myself (its a very safe GOP seat), except that it depresses me a little to see how far off the deep end the GOP is going and has been going for years. Not that I've got common cause with them on most issues, but they have a lot of power over me and my family and the country and environment in which I live. Where is the bottom?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 11, 2017, 08:14:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2017, 05:27:02 PM
I see Trump's accusers have come out again... Where have they been for the last year??

They had to wait first for the Democrats to regain the high moral ground as it pertains to the issue of sexual assault. They had lost it for 20/30 years with their unwavering loyalty to Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy

They just got it back last week when they forced Al Franken to resign

Nothing stopping the GOP following suit amidst what is looking like a major cultural turning point. This should not be a partisan issue. If the Dems seize the high ground, it will only because the GOP refuse to join them there.

Hahaha....forcing Franken out when his replacement gets to be handpicked by the Democratic governor required a lot of courage on their end. I knew something was up last week. 

Looks like maybe the Russian angle isn't working for them

Time for plan b

So... what... the GOP SHOULDN'T bother trying to get with the times and take a stand against sexual assault and harrassment? Its all political, so it doesn't matter?? They shouldn't even bother trying to neutralize it, even if only for political reasons? I'm confused.

And Franken was seated until 2020. Now the Dems have yet another seat to defend next year (and then again in 2020), one which Franken took months of delay to win originally. You think they're happily just going to turn over a stone to find a candidate as popular and capable as Franken? I'd say the GOP are planning to give MN a serious go, especially having done very well in WI in recent times. Doesn't mean they'll win, but it will at the very least take resources away from some of the seats Dems are defending in red states.

As for Moore, there was nothing stopping the GOP getting together and doing a serious write-in campaign. Some of them even wavered and encouraged this. But once Trump got involved, it was Moore all the way, with a few noble exceptions like the senior Senator from Alabama. So spare us the whinging about motives, especially given the climate under which this is taking place.

But rather than your whining about playing politics and plan B's, why don't YOU tell us what SHOULD be happening here?

Who's whining?

I am quite enjoying seeing the liberals lose their mind at the prospect of Roy Moore in the Senate. 

All the time they cried wolf about Republicans over the past few years is blowing up spectacularly in their faces.

Mitt Romney was a woman hater of the highest order because he had folders full of resumes and allowed his female employers flexible schedules if they wanted to leave early to have dinner with their families

And as for that John Kasich, "housewives" came out of their kitchens to help him get elected, so fvck him too

At the end of the day the Republican Party is fvcked.....maybe Trumps only (and parting gift) will be 2 or 3 Supreme Court Justices. He needs Roy Moore to accomplish that goal

You're questioning the motives of the Democrats on this issue, ignoring the vast cultural groundswell under which this is all taking place. If the Dems kept Franken and Conyers on, you'd be screaming hypocrisy. After them giving them the boot, you're basically doing the same. Fine.

But you're refusing to address my point that if this is all purely political or opportunistic (or even partially), then what is stopping the GOP doing the same? You're refusing to tell us what the GOP, whom you generally support, SHOULD be doing.

You are the one who should be losing your mind over Moore. The man is a disgrace to conservatism. Don't give too much of a f**k about Moore per se myself (its a very safe GOP seat), except that it depresses me a little to see how far off the deep end the GOP is going and has been going for years. Not that I've got common cause with them on most issues, but they have a lot of power over me and my family and the country and environment in which I live. Where is the bottom?

63000000 people voted for Trump in spite of the Access Hollywood tape and in spite of other known allegations.  As far as I'm concerned that has already been litigated in the court of public opinion.  unless some new bombshell emerges it's a done deal as far as Im concerned.

As it pertains to Moore, they should have figured out a way to throw him off the ballot. He's extremely unpopular in Alabama. If he gets elected they should throw him out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2017, 08:38:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 08:14:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2017, 05:27:02 PM
I see Trump's accusers have come out again... Where have they been for the last year??

They had to wait first for the Democrats to regain the high moral ground as it pertains to the issue of sexual assault. They had lost it for 20/30 years with their unwavering loyalty to Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy

They just got it back last week when they forced Al Franken to resign

Nothing stopping the GOP following suit amidst what is looking like a major cultural turning point. This should not be a partisan issue. If the Dems seize the high ground, it will only because the GOP refuse to join them there.

Hahaha....forcing Franken out when his replacement gets to be handpicked by the Democratic governor required a lot of courage on their end. I knew something was up last week. 

Looks like maybe the Russian angle isn't working for them

Time for plan b

So... what... the GOP SHOULDN'T bother trying to get with the times and take a stand against sexual assault and harrassment? Its all political, so it doesn't matter?? They shouldn't even bother trying to neutralize it, even if only for political reasons? I'm confused.

And Franken was seated until 2020. Now the Dems have yet another seat to defend next year (and then again in 2020), one which Franken took months of delay to win originally. You think they're happily just going to turn over a stone to find a candidate as popular and capable as Franken? I'd say the GOP are planning to give MN a serious go, especially having done very well in WI in recent times. Doesn't mean they'll win, but it will at the very least take resources away from some of the seats Dems are defending in red states.

As for Moore, there was nothing stopping the GOP getting together and doing a serious write-in campaign. Some of them even wavered and encouraged this. But once Trump got involved, it was Moore all the way, with a few noble exceptions like the senior Senator from Alabama. So spare us the whinging about motives, especially given the climate under which this is taking place.

But rather than your whining about playing politics and plan B's, why don't YOU tell us what SHOULD be happening here?

Who's whining?

I am quite enjoying seeing the liberals lose their mind at the prospect of Roy Moore in the Senate. 

All the time they cried wolf about Republicans over the past few years is blowing up spectacularly in their faces.

Mitt Romney was a woman hater of the highest order because he had folders full of resumes and allowed his female employers flexible schedules if they wanted to leave early to have dinner with their families

And as for that John Kasich, "housewives" came out of their kitchens to help him get elected, so fvck him too

At the end of the day the Republican Party is fvcked.....maybe Trumps only (and parting gift) will be 2 or 3 Supreme Court Justices. He needs Roy Moore to accomplish that goal

You're questioning the motives of the Democrats on this issue, ignoring the vast cultural groundswell under which this is all taking place. If the Dems kept Franken and Conyers on, you'd be screaming hypocrisy. After them giving them the boot, you're basically doing the same. Fine.

But you're refusing to address my point that if this is all purely political or opportunistic (or even partially), then what is stopping the GOP doing the same? You're refusing to tell us what the GOP, whom you generally support, SHOULD be doing.

You are the one who should be losing your mind over Moore. The man is a disgrace to conservatism. Don't give too much of a f**k about Moore per se myself (its a very safe GOP seat), except that it depresses me a little to see how far off the deep end the GOP is going and has been going for years. Not that I've got common cause with them on most issues, but they have a lot of power over me and my family and the country and environment in which I live. Where is the bottom?

63000000 people voted for Trump in spite of the Access Hollywood tape and in spite of other known allegations.  As far as I'm concerned that has already been litigated in the court of public opinion.  unless some new bombshell emerges it's a done deal as far as Im concerned.

As it pertains to Moore, they should have figured out a way to throw him off the ballot. He's extremely unpopular in Alabama. If he gets elected they should throw him out

On Trump specifically, nothing is going to come of this, at least until the next campaign, even if new allegations come out. He is lucky that all this the Weinstein-instigated backlash didn't happen last year, although in fairness, the allegations against him and his defiant hypocrisy probably laid at least some of the groundwork for Weinstein et al.'s downfall. This reckoning would have happened eventually no matter what, but Trump may have sped it up, even if it was Weinstein that opened the floodgates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 11, 2017, 08:43:36 PM
What would have happened if Hillary won ?

Would people be calling for Bill to be removed from the White House?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2017, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 08:43:36 PM
What would have happened if Hillary won ?

Would people be calling for Bill to be removed from the White House?

Who knows?

Had the blowback been as severe as it has all around, quite possibly.

I know some on the right are consoling themselves with that particular what-might-have-been. And the right wing in general would have been beating the drum intensely to see his removal, including congressional investigations.

But we are where we are. You can only react to the circumstances you're in.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 11, 2017, 10:07:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2017, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 08:43:36 PM
What would have happened if Hillary won ?

Would people be calling for Bill to be removed from the White House?

Who knows?

Had the blowback been as severe as it has all around, quite possibly.

I know some on the right are consoling themselves with that particular what-might-have-been. And the right wing in general would have been beating the drum intensely to see his removal, including congressional investigations.

But we are where we are. You can only react to the circumstances you're in.

That's why you elect good people

No one is perfect, but the 2 cvnts who were on the ballot last year were a thundering disgrace.

Hopefully going forward anyone with any kind of baggage gets jettisoned....and I'm not talking about binders full of women
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 12, 2017, 02:02:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 08:43:36 PM
What would have happened if Hillary won ?

Would people be calling for Bill to be removed from the White House?

Think you have a fair point there whitey. I think given the ramifications of public opinion since Weinstein, a traditional politician like Hillary would have been under severe pressure regarding her behavior around the time of her husband's case. Would have caused a huge backlash, and had she been president, may well have been enough to prevent reelection.
There has been a lot of public retraction of support and people who were supportive of President Clinton who look back now And realize the error of their ways. (and his)

Teflon Don however, nothing sticks...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 12, 2017, 05:51:48 AM
It is very hard to predict stuff in the US now. Politics are very emotional. Voters havent figured out yet that Trump is a cHarlatan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on December 12, 2017, 10:03:57 AM
Whitey keeps mentioning Clinton and Kennedy in connection with sexual harassment and sexual assault, what are the specific allegations against them, I know Bill played the harmonica :-) and did a bit of philandering, and Kennedy was involve in Chappaquiddick but I can't recall allegations of harassment or assault against them. though in fairness I have a shit memory lol.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2017, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 12, 2017, 10:03:57 AM
Whitey keeps mentioning Clinton and Kennedy in connection with sexual harassment and sexual assault, what are the specific allegations against them, I know Bill played the harmonica :-) and did a bit of philandering, and Kennedy was involve in Chappaquiddick but I can't recall allegations of harassment or assault against them. though in fairness I have a shit memory lol.

Bill Clinton was actually accused of rape and sexual assault and paid settlements to several women for those indiscretions.  Apart from Chapaquidick (where he left a young woman to drown in his car) Ted Kennedy was a renowned alcoholic who was infamous for grabbing and groping women especially waitresses....of course he got a free pass from the press on much of what he did because he was a Kennedy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2017, 02:07:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 12, 2017, 10:03:57 AM
Whitey keeps mentioning Clinton and Kennedy in connection with sexual harassment and sexual assault, what are the specific allegations against them, I know Bill played the harmonica :-) and did a bit of philandering, and Kennedy was involve in Chappaquiddick but I can't recall allegations of harassment or assault against them. though in fairness I have a shit memory lol.

Bill Clinton was actually accused of rape and sexual assault and paid settlements to several women for those indiscretions.  Apart from Chapaquidick (where he left a young woman to drown in his car) Ted Kennedy was a renowned alcoholic who was infamous for grabbing and groping women especially waitresses....of course he got a free pass from the press on much of what he did because he was a Kennedy

Chappaquidick should have, at least, ended his public career, but I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the drinking and harassment bit. Did the press hold ANYONE accountable for that type of behaviour?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2017, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2017, 02:07:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 12, 2017, 10:03:57 AM
Whitey keeps mentioning Clinton and Kennedy in connection with sexual harassment and sexual assault, what are the specific allegations against them, I know Bill played the harmonica :-) and did a bit of philandering, and Kennedy was involve in Chappaquiddick but I can't recall allegations of harassment or assault against them. though in fairness I have a shit memory lol.

Bill Clinton was actually accused of rape and sexual assault and paid settlements to several women for those indiscretions.  Apart from Chapaquidick (where he left a young woman to drown in his car) Ted Kennedy was a renowned alcoholic who was infamous for grabbing and groping women especially waitresses....of course he got a free pass from the press on much of what he did because he was a Kennedy

Chappaquidick should have, at least, ended his public career, but I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the drinking and harassment bit. Did the press hold ANYONE accountable for that type of behaviour?

Why do you always have to stick up for theses fvcks?

I have lived in MA pretty much for the past 25 years....I know people personally who worked at bars, country clubs and marinas down the Cape where the Kennedys hung out.  Ted Kennedy was a fvckin disgrace

https://www.gq.com/story/kennedy-ted-senator-profile
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2017, 02:33:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2017, 02:07:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 12, 2017, 10:03:57 AM
Whitey keeps mentioning Clinton and Kennedy in connection with sexual harassment and sexual assault, what are the specific allegations against them, I know Bill played the harmonica :-) and did a bit of philandering, and Kennedy was involve in Chappaquiddick but I can't recall allegations of harassment or assault against them. though in fairness I have a shit memory lol.

Bill Clinton was actually accused of rape and sexual assault and paid settlements to several women for those indiscretions.  Apart from Chapaquidick (where he left a young woman to drown in his car) Ted Kennedy was a renowned alcoholic who was infamous for grabbing and groping women especially waitresses....of course he got a free pass from the press on much of what he did because he was a Kennedy

Chappaquidick should have, at least, ended his public career, but I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the drinking and harassment bit. Did the press hold ANYONE accountable for that type of behaviour?

Why do you always have to stick up for theses fvcks?

I have lived in MA pretty much for the past 25 years....I know people personally who worked at bars, country clubs and marinas down the Cape where the Kennedys hung out.  Ted Kennedy was a fvckin disgrace

https://www.gq.com/story/kennedy-ted-senator-profile

Where did I stick up for them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2017, 03:06:27 PM
"but I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the drinking and harassment bit"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2017, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 03:06:27 PM
"but I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the drinking and harassment bit"

Why did you leave out the "Did the press hold ANYONE accountable for that type of behaviour?" part of my post??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2017, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2017, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 03:06:27 PM
"but I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the drinking and harassment bit"

Why did you leave out the "Did the press hold ANYONE accountable for that type of behaviour?" part of my post??

Re read your sentence. There's a full stop in between your statements

Are you saying the drinking and harassment didn't happen.,..because it absolutely did

Or are you saying I'm disingenuous because the press didn't hold anyone accountable back then so Ted was just another rich white guy getting a pass
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2017, 04:31:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2017, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 03:06:27 PM
"but I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the drinking and harassment bit"

Why did you leave out the "Did the press hold ANYONE accountable for that type of behaviour?" part of my post??

Re read your sentence. There's a full stop in between your statements

Are you saying the drinking and harassment didn't happen.,..because it absolutely did

Or are you saying I'm disingenuous because the press didn't hold anyone accountable back then so Ted was just another rich white guy getting a pass

Obviously I'm not saying drinking and harassment didn't happen, so yes, last sentence. Although I don't think anyone was held accountable for such behaviour by anyone, never mind by the press. Women just had to grin and bear it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 07:30:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
I am quite enjoying seeing the liberals lose their mind at the prospect of Roy Moore in the Senate. 

Oh. My. God.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 12, 2017, 08:02:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2017, 06:49:41 PMI am quite enjoying seeing the liberals lose their mind at the prospect of Roy Moore in the Senate. 

How shitty is your life?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 09:01:55 PM
For his next trick he'll probably say he'd like to have seen Jimmy Saville becoming Tory leader just to p1ss off "liberals."

On a day when the conservatives of Alabama are going out to vote for an alleged paedophile, these people still have the audacity to use the word "liberal" as if it's a term of abuse. They are beyond satire.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
They'd be losing their minds regardless of whether it was Mitt Romneys "binders" or John Kasichs "housewives leaving their kitchens". 30 years of rank hypocrisy and double standards is coming back to haunt the Democrats and they can go fvck themselves as far as I'm concerned

And BTW, read the totality of what I wrote on the matter.....I also said Roy Moore should be thrown out of the Senate if he gets elected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 12, 2017, 09:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
They'd be losing their minds regardless of whether it was Mitt Romneys "binders" or John Kasichs "housewives leaving their kitchens". 30 years of rank hypocrisy and double standards is coming back to haunt the Democrats and they can go fvck themselves as far as I'm concerned

And BTW, read the totality of what I wrote on the matter.....I also said Roy Moore should be thrown out of the Senate if he gets elected

He's OK now... his wife was very clear that their Attorney is a Jew so they can't be racist!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 12, 2017, 09:47:40 PM
 This is a huge theme.  The way the 1% are degrading politics


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/11/the-prospect-of-a-roy-moore-victory-should-make-your-stomach-churn-with-fear

What is happening to the Republicans under Trump is a process whereby the base radicalises the establishment, and the establishment then feels empowered to begin dismantling aspects of democracy. Moore has stated that the last time the US was great was "at the time when families were united – even though we had slavery" – although not the families of black people, which were, of course, torn apart.

However, the historical parallels are more recent. In his study of the rise of Nazism and the fall of the Weimar republic, the leftwing German historian Hans Mommsen identified three destabilisers defying the textbook explanation that "Nazis were evil and the German bourgeoisie naive".

The first was the rise of conservative paramilitary combat leagues, numbering at least 400,000 before the Nazi brownshirts took off. Although their aim was always declared to be keeping order, the combat leagues created a paralysis in the official policing structures that the Nazis exploited in their march to power. The second was the corruption of the judiciary. In a series of court cases, most notably when they upheld the libellous charge that the moderate socialist leader Friedrich Ebert had committed treason, the German courts eviscerated the republican constitution on which Weimar democracy had been based. The third destabiliser was the resort to rule by decree under conservative chancellors after 1930, sidelining the elected parliament – again with the approval of the courts.
Following this process through the collapse of Weimar democracy, the Nazi years in power and the Holocaust, Mommsen dubbed it "cumulative radicalisation". Far from exhibiting naivety, the German business class became increasingly complicit in hollowing out parliamentary democracy, always under the pressure of a radical, plebeian, racist voting base.
 
is hard to look at the US today without seeing the cumulative radicalisation of the right: there are militias – not just of the classic gun-toting variety, but regimented groups of younger, more urbanised men, mobilised via internet message boardsdevoted to violent misogyny and racism, such as the Proud Boys. There are figures such as Moore prepared to defy the constitution, and a network of more than 200 law enforcers in the "constitutional sheriffs" movement – which claims that an elected local sheriff should be able to overrule federal law.

And now we have the beginnings of rule by diktat, not only in the frequent presidential decrees and arbitrary sackings of officials by the White House, but in Congress itself. The Republicans sprang a massive and detailed amendment to the tax bill just a few hours before it was due to be voted on. Trump's Treasury secretary, Steve Mnuchin, has offered scant analysis of the effects on debt or distribution arising from the new tax bill and deleted a study from the Treasury website that was implicitly critical. The normal processes of democracy are being short-circuited.

victory for Moore on Tuesday will up the tempo of rightwing radicalisation. Nobody needs to say that a new secession by the south, as his backers want, is impossible, or that a US run by local sheriffs in defiance of the federal courts is a neofascist fantasy. These are signifiers for a more practical programme of tolerance for racist policing, limits on abortion rights and the shrinkage of the state.



'Maybe Putin is right': Roy Moore remark on same-sex marriage resurfaces

 

Read more

There is not a single major company in the US whose material interest aligns with the political programme of Moore, not even Koch Industries, which has bankrolled the Tea Party movement, nor Rupert Murdoch's Fox Corporation, which has boosted the rightwing agenda. In most global corporations, the language Moore and his supporters use could not even be uttered in the restrooms, let alone the boardroom.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2017, 09:53:28 PM
Moore represents Alabama....nowhere else.

Of course the Democrats will try and attach Moore to every single Republican that holds elected office

They tried it with Trump and it didnt work

(Republicans would do the same if the shoe was on the other foot)

FFS Elizabeth Warren cut the ribbon and gave a glowing speech about Ted Kennedy when they opened his museum in Boston last year......Ted fvckin Kennedy........if she starts the phony war on women $hit she should be taken out at the knees
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 09:55:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
They'd be losing their minds regardless of whether it was Mitt Romneys "binders" or John Kasichs "housewives leaving their kitchens". 30 years of rank hypocrisy and double standards is coming back to haunt the Democrats and they can go fvck themselves as far as I'm concerned

And BTW, read the totality of what I wrote on the matter.....I also said Roy Moore should be thrown out of the Senate if he gets elected

I challenge you to condemn Moore and renounce him. No whataboutery, just a straight denunciation will do.

Do it, Whitey. Do it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 12, 2017, 10:12:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 12, 2017, 09:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
They'd be losing their minds regardless of whether it was Mitt Romneys "binders" or John Kasichs "housewives leaving their kitchens". 30 years of rank hypocrisy and double standards is coming back to haunt the Democrats and they can go fvck themselves as far as I'm concerned

And BTW, read the totality of what I wrote on the matter.....I also said Roy Moore should be thrown out of the Senate if he gets elected

He's OK now... his wife was very clear that their Attorney is a Jew so they can't be racist!
as I read that article the courts refuse to implement the travel ban
The sanctuary cities won't enforce federal law and and the state dept say they are not doing anything to move embassy or any dept offices to Jerusalem so it's a total load of shite.
Unfortunately for most on here who hate trump and the USA the country is booming right now whoever is responsible for it , and the longer I live here the more I find the country does well and thrives despite of politicians not thanks to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2017, 10:38:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 09:55:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
They'd be losing their minds regardless of whether it was Mitt Romneys "binders" or John Kasichs "housewives leaving their kitchens". 30 years of rank hypocrisy and double standards is coming back to haunt the Democrats and they can go fvck themselves as far as I'm concerned

And BTW, read the totality of what I wrote on the matter.....I also said Roy Moore should be thrown out of the Senate if he gets elected

I challenge you to condemn Moore and renounce him. No whataboutery, just a straight denunciation will do.

Do it, Whitey. Do it.

I condemn and renounce him

(I already said  on this thread that he should have been thrown off the ballot and that should he win he should be removed from the Senate)

Now do I still think the Democrats are hypocrites of the highest order for all of a sudden (after 30 years) being offended by sexual mis-steps by an elected official....bet your life I do.

BTW the exit polls in AL showed that for only 1/10 voters were the allegations the most important issue, while 1/3 said the allegations didnt factor at all in their decision
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 11:12:36 PM
Did you miss the part where I said "no whataboutery"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 13, 2017, 12:19:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 09:01:55 PM
For his next trick he'll probably say he'd like to have seen Jimmy Saville becoming Tory leader just to p1ss off "liberals."

On a day when the conservatives of Alabama are going out to vote for an alleged paedophile, these people still have the audacity to use the word "liberal" as if it's a term of abuse. They are beyond satire.

Dont you get it? The right are every bit as disgusted with liberals as you are conservatives!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2017, 12:23:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 11:12:36 PM
Did you miss the part where I said "no whataboutery"?

There was none.  I addressed two completely separate topics in my post
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on December 13, 2017, 01:15:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 09:01:55 PM
For his next trick he'll probably say he'd like to have seen Jimmy Saville becoming Tory leader just to p1ss off "liberals."

On a day when the conservatives of Alabama are going out to vote for an alleged paedophile, these people still have the audacity to use the word "liberal" as if it's a term of abuse. They are beyond satire.

If you want your argument to carry weight, given the completely bullshit state of all of our media - you'd be better served not claiming Roy Moore was allegedly a Paedophile.  As far as I can tell his accusers, while being young, and being preyed on - were not so young as to classify him such. It would be so refreshing to have some people actually tell it as it is. Unfortunately many democratic, and people who in my opinion lean to the side of "good", can't stop regurgitating the very bullshit that we've called the republican folks on. How about letting the facts speak for themselves?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 01:17:58 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on December 13, 2017, 01:15:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 09:01:55 PM
For his next trick he'll probably say he'd like to have seen Jimmy Saville becoming Tory leader just to p1ss off "liberals."

On a day when the conservatives of Alabama are going out to vote for an alleged paedophile, these people still have the audacity to use the word "liberal" as if it's a term of abuse. They are beyond satire.

If you want your argument to carry weight, given the completely bullshit state of all of our media - you'd be better served not claiming Roy Moore was allegedly a Paedophile.  As far as I can tell his accusers, while being young, and being preyed on - were not so young as to classify him such. It would be so refreshing to have some people actually tell it as it is. Unfortunately many democratic, and people who in my opinion lean to the side of "good", can't stop regurgitating the very bullshit that we've called the republican folks on. How about letting the facts speak for themselves?

One of the victims was 14 years old ffs!! Not a paedophile my fúcking arse.

I don't know how you could write that with a clear conscience. Incredible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on December 13, 2017, 02:06:59 AM
I know how he could write it

He read the detail on the definition of the word. Thats what the literature says ffs.
Sexual predator? Appears to be
Child abuser? Looks like it
Evil sc**bag? Indeed
Paedophile? Not by the definition of the term
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 02:23:39 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 13, 2017, 02:06:59 AM
I know how he could write it

He read the detail on the definition of the word. Thats what the literature says ffs.
Sexual predator? Appears to be
Child abuser? Looks like it
Evil sc**bag? Indeed
Paedophile? Not by the definition of the term

If you and Puckoon are actually trying to conduct a semantic debate around the fact that in your eyes a 14 year old girl isn't a child I really can do little but shake my head.

Concentrate on the important part.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 13, 2017, 03:15:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 12, 2017, 09:47:40 PM

Nobody needs to say that a new secession by the south, as his backers want, is impossible,





Oh please, Jesus, yes.  Let them have their abortion-and blue-state funding-free theocracy, and let the rest of us have a functioning democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on December 13, 2017, 03:20:45 AM
You've enough people pulling your britches down on this board, Syferus - so I'll try and highlight the salient points of my post. Feel free to google salient.

We're awash with errors in the quality of news and facts, at best. At worst - we are surrounded by those who seek to squeeze any additional smidgen of a point which will turn the tide of popular opinion. This is called spin, and is responsible for the reprehensible state of political news and opinion as we are now forced to know it.

Roy Moore is a predator, abuser of young, inexperienced girls. He is also not fit for office, nor any public held position. He is abominable.

He is not, however - a paedophile (that has currently been alleged). He may well be. So may anyone. Given that fact, any assertions about him from liberal/democratic folks would be best served in fact, given the absolute spin merchants peddling their trade on Fox News.

Now, take your fake indignation and relentless energy - and put it where it belongs. Make your bed so your mammy doesn't yell at you in the morning.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2017, 03:22:06 AM
Not looking good for Moore...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 13, 2017, 03:32:41 AM
Everyone calling it for Jones
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2017, 03:39:18 AM
Major embarrassment for Trump and Bannon.

And they're stuck with Moore now. Whereas the likes of Flake and Shelby maintained their dignity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 13, 2017, 03:48:17 AM
Associated Press and NBC call it for Jones
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 13, 2017, 03:53:38 AM
Jones has it.

I wouldn't read too much into it. Again, a little bit of egg on the face of the president in particular, but the GOP in general.

Alabama is the most Republican state in the country, the most interesting thing to me has been the feedback from the Rep Superpacs. Blaming Bannon and Trump. Already pointing towards quality of candidate selection. Going to be an interesting few months.

Senate in play for 2018? 51-49 GOP right now.

Funny too see the backlash in the north east against the tax reform. How can you manage to screwup and piss off wall street by decreasing tax on the rich? That takes a certain type of special.

Fox saying Trump's Twitter feed encouraged African American voters to come out and vote by pissing them off. Have a laugh and take a look at USA today's editorial.

"Trump not fit to shine the shoes of GW Bush" In effectively calling Gillebrand a whore he may have finally crossed the line.
Quote
With his latest tweet, clearly implying that a United States senator would trade sexual favors for campaign cash, President Trump has shown he is not fit for office. Rock bottom is no impediment for a president who can always find room for a new low.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 13, 2017, 03:58:29 AM
It will be fun watching Trump and Bannon spin this one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2017, 04:15:51 AM
*Gathers popcorn and turns on Fox News*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2017, 04:17:39 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 13, 2017, 03:15:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 12, 2017, 09:47:40 PM

Nobody needs to say that a new secession by the south, as his backers want, is impossible,





Oh please, Jesus, yes.  Let them have their abortion-and blue-state funding-free theocracy, and let the rest of us have a functioning democracy.

I'd love to see them try to secede. The'll get a dose of what they got the last time. If we have to put manners on them twice, so be it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2017, 04:20:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 13, 2017, 12:23:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 11:12:36 PM
Did you miss the part where I said "no whataboutery"?

There was none.

Au contraire:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2017, 09:55:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
They'd be losing their minds regardless of whether it was Mitt Romneys "binders" or John Kasichs "housewives leaving their kitchens". 30 years of rank hypocrisy and double standards is coming back to haunt the Democrats and they can go fvck themselves as far as I'm concerned

And BTW, read the totality of what I wrote on the matter.....I also said Roy Moore should be thrown out of the Senate if he gets elected

I challenge you to condemn Moore and renounce him. No whataboutery, just a straight denunciation will do.

Do it, Whitey. Do it.

Quote
I addressed two completely separate topics in my post
You went straight to whataboutery.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 04:59:59 AM
is it safe to assume that a lot of Americans are now realizing that maybe Hillary wasn't so bad after all????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 05:42:51 AM
Jaysus Chrisht

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/12/roy-moore-loses-alabama-senate-race-doug-jones-wins

This is a monumental kick in the nuts to Trump.
And the Senate majority is now razor thin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 13, 2017, 07:53:16 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 04:59:59 AM
is it safe to assume that a lot of Americans are now realizing that maybe Hillary wasn't so bad after all????
Eh no!

A lot of Americans still realise what an obnoxious, hateful, lying sack of crap she really is!

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 07:58:10 AM
Quote from: stew on December 13, 2017, 07:53:16 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 04:59:59 AM
is it safe to assume that a lot of Americans are now realizing that maybe Hillary wasn't so bad after all????
Eh no!

A lot of Americans still realise what an obnoxious, hateful, lying sack of crap she really is!

Hope that helps.
Hillary is as relevant as Armagh''s Sam at this stage.
Moore losing is bad news for the Trump Reich.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 09:00:12 AM
A great day for gays, bisexuals and lesbians. Look at what tr**p was saying 5 days ago

Https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/09/donald-trump-backs-roy-moore-florida-alleged-victim

Speaking before green and red signs saying "Merry Christmas, Make America Great Again", Trump not only gave an ardent endorsement of Moore but cast doubt on the claims of one of the women who has accused Moore of sexually assaulting her as a teenager.

Trump joined the Moore campaign in attacking the credibility of one accuser, Beverly Young Nelson, who said Friday she added an inscription to a high school yearbook signed by the Alabama Republican. "Did you see what happened today? You know, the yearbook? Did you see that? There was a little mistake made," said Trump. "She started writing things in the yearbook." He went on to attack the credibility of her lawyer, Gloria Allred. "Any time you see her you know something's gone wrong."

Nelson had used the yearbook as evidence to back her claims that Moore sexually assaulted her when she was a 16-year-old waitress, in 1977.

Trump also criticised Moore's opponent, Democrat Doug Jones, as a "liberal democrat" and a "total puppet" before closing his pitch by saying "We want jobs, jobs, jobs, so get out and vote for Roy Moore."

The president has initially been cautious in his embrace of the controversial candidate, who was twice removed from office as Alabama's chief justice for defying federal courts and has frequently made remarks considered homophobic. Most recently, Moore blamed the allegations against him on a conspiracy that includes "lesbians, gays, bisexuals and socialists".


However, Trump has supported Moore on Twitter in recent days. He said Friday morning "LAST thing the Make America Great Again Agenda needs is a Liberal Democrat in Senate where we have so little margin for victory already. The Pelosi/Schumer Puppet Jones would vote against us 100% of the time. He's bad on Crime, Life, Border, Vets, Guns & Military. VOTE ROY MOORE!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 13, 2017, 11:58:29 AM
Any word from the President yet?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 13, 2017, 12:06:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 07:58:10 AM
Quote from: stew on December 13, 2017, 07:53:16 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 04:59:59 AM
is it safe to assume that a lot of Americans are now realizing that maybe Hillary wasn't so bad after all????
Eh no!

A lot of Americans still realise what an obnoxious, hateful, lying sack of crap she really is!

Hope that helps.
Hillary is as relevant as Armagh''s Sam at this stage.
Moore losing is bad news for the Trump Reich.

You need tablets, Trump Reich my hole, do you ctually believe that drivel?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2017, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 13, 2017, 11:58:29 AM
Any word from the President yet?

Someone drafted a reasonably gracious tweet for him last night.

I suspect he really wants to start lashing out with voter fraud claims and so on though. The mood will not be good this morning!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 13, 2017, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2017, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 13, 2017, 11:58:29 AM
Any word from the President yet?

Someone drafted a reasonably gracious tweet for him last night.

I suspect he really wants to start lashing out with voter fraud claims and so on though. The mood will not be good this morning!

Moore still hasn't conceded yet and is going for a recount . . . no shame!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2017, 12:26:22 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 04:59:59 AM
is it safe to assume that a lot of Americans are now realizing that maybe Hillary wasn't so bad after all????

Are you kidding

First of all can you imagine Bill as "first husband" living in the White House with all the sexual harrassment claims coming out

Secondly.....its looking very much like the FBI "investigation"of Hillary was seriously compromised....the investigator who essentially "exonerated" her found to be texting anti Trump messages during the investigation. 

Senior DOJ official who was recently stood down for secretly meeting with Fusion GPS.....his wife actually worked for Fusion GPS at the time of the infamous fake dossier
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2017, 12:28:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 13, 2017, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2017, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 13, 2017, 11:58:29 AM
Any word from the President yet?

Someone drafted a reasonably gracious tweet for him last night.

I suspect he really wants to start lashing out with voter fraud claims and so on though. The mood will not be good this morning!

Moore still hasn't conceded yet and is going for a recount . . . no shame!!!
He'll concede today.

Or maybe not - he is from the conspiracy theorizing wing of the US right.

But the fact is unless he conjures up thousands of votes to close the gap, he is looking at a 1.5% losing margin. Which means HE has to pay for any recount. State-funded recount only kicks in for a margin of <0.5%.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 13, 2017, 12:35:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 13, 2017, 12:26:22 PMAre you kidding

First of all can you imagine Bill as "first husband" living in the White House with all the sexual harrassment claims coming out

Secondly.....its looking very much like the FBI "investigation"of Hillary was seriously compromised....the investigator who essentially "exonerated" her found to be texting anti Trump messages during the investigation. 

Senior DOJ official who was recently stood down for secretly meeting with Fusion GPS.....his wife actually worked for Fusion GPS at the time of the infamous fake dossier

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/weirdalfoil_2322.jpg)

Someone has been on a steady diet of Hannity and Fox and Friends yesterday and today



One for Syf  - https://screengrabber.deadspin.com/theyre-not-gonna-keep-em-off-the-field-tonight-1821243563

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2017, 12:36:31 PM
Over 48% of Alabama voters knowingly voted for a child molester. The president of the USA, a serial sexual abuser himself, went all in backing that same child molester.

But that's where the Republican party and its supporters are at these days.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 13, 2017, 12:43:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 13, 2017, 02:06:59 AM
I know how he could write it

He read the detail on the definition of the word. Thats what the literature says ffs.
Sexual predator? Appears to be
Child abuser? Looks like it
Evil sc**bag? Indeed
Paedophile? Not by the definition of the term

I believe the more correct term would be "ephebophile"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 13, 2017, 01:15:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 13, 2017, 12:26:22 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 04:59:59 AM
is it safe to assume that a lot of Americans are now realizing that maybe Hillary wasn't so bad after all????

Are you kidding

First of all can you imagine Bill as "first husband" living in the White House with all the sexual harrassment claims coming out

Secondly.....its looking very much like the FBI "investigation"of Hillary was seriously compromised....the investigator who essentially "exonerated" her found to be texting anti Trump messages during the investigation. 

Senior DOJ official who was recently stood down for secretly meeting with Fusion GPS.....his wife actually worked for Fusion GPS at the time of the infamous fake dossier


1. Whitey is right first man bill would have had to face the music
2. The investigator said the idea of a trump presidency was terrifying. I'd say that was accurate and prescient.
3. That dossier keeps getting attention, why the GOP and Donald Spurs keep calling more attention to Fusion GPS is beyond me. Oh look a bird....
Fake news
Gina
Vote for predators...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 01:36:07 PM
Who was it that claimed Alabama would never vote Democrat?

Lol.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2017, 01:47:58 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 13, 2017, 11:58:29 AM
Any word from the President yet?

I stand corrected.

Trump is going the "it's all about me and not my fault that Moore, who I always said was a loser, didn't win" route!  ;D

The reason I originally endorsed Luther Strange (and his numbers went up mightily), is that I said Roy Moore will not be able to win the General Election.  I was right! Roy worked hard but the deck was stacked against him

Yes Donald, deep red, redneck Alabama where a Dem hadn't won in 25 years was a stacked deck!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrhardyannual on December 13, 2017, 03:00:21 PM
The establishment wing of the Republican party will be delighted with the result despite the tightening of the Senate majority.

Serious wrangling will be done to produce and pass a reconciled Tax Bill before Christmas.

Steve Bannon comes out worse than Trump from this debacle and he'll find it increasingly difficult to get populist, non-conformists on the slate for next year's Senate elections. With 25 Democrats and only 8 Republican seats up for election, the Republicans will be short odds to hold if not increase the Senate majority with middle of the road candidates.
Democrats haven't a viable candidate (as yet) to oppose Trump in 2020 and when they do they will need someone who can inspire both  black and hispanic voters that they are serious about reform (unlike Hillary , who took their votes for granted) while reaching out to the disillusioned white working/labouring class who swung hard to Trump.

Despite how much he is disliked the system favours Trump as the incumbent. If the Republicans can rein him in a little he will still be hard beaten.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 03:09:37 PM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 13, 2017, 03:00:21 PM
The establishment wing of the Republican party will be delighted with the result despite the tightening of the Senate majority.

Serious wrangling will be done to produce and pass a reconciled Tax Bill before Christmas.

Steve Bannon comes out worse than Trump from this debacle and he'll find it increasingly difficult to get populist, non-conformists on the slate for next year's Senate elections. With 25 Democrats and only 8 Republican seats up for election, the Republicans will be short odds to hold if not increase the Senate majority with middle of the road candidates.
Democrats haven't a viable candidate (as yet) to oppose Trump in 2020 and when they do they will need someone who can inspire both  black and hispanic voters that they are serious about reform (unlike Hillary , who took their votes for granted) while reaching out to the disillusioned white working/labouring class who swung hard to Trump.

Despite how much he is disliked the system favours Trump as the incumbent. If the Republicans can rein him in a little he will still be hard beaten.

Trump will be the easiest incumbent to beat in living memory. If he even hangs on long enough to run for re-election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 13, 2017, 03:22:09 PM
Syferus,
I wouldn't be so sure

There is a strong base there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2017, 03:41:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 13, 2017, 03:22:09 PM
Syferus,
I wouldn't be so sure

There is a strong base there

If the Dems rig their primary again they could easily be beaten like they were last year

One refreshing aspect of the AL election was that we saw some new faces get down to AL for the Democratic Party, in particular Corey Booker
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 04:07:39 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 13, 2017, 03:22:09 PM
Syferus,
I wouldn't be so sure

There is a strong base there

There isn't a strong base. There's a segment of malcontents on the right, he doesn't even unite his side like any Republican or Democrat candidate needs to do to win. The reason he won last time was more to do with Hillary being equally divisive (itself a madness) than it had to do with any great sea change in US politics.

A safe pair of hands will be more than enough to do Trump in, and his supporters will go back to the margins and movements like the Tea Party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2017, 04:28:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 04:07:39 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 13, 2017, 03:22:09 PM
Syferus,
I wouldn't be so sure

There is a strong base there

There isn't a strong base. There's a segment of malcontents on the right, he doesn't even unite his side like any Republican or Democrat candidate needs to do to win. The reason he won last time was more to do with Hillary being equally divisive (itself a madness) than it had to do with any great sea change in US politics.

A safe pair of hands will be more than enough to do Trump in, and his supporters will go back to the margins and movements like the Tea Party.

A safe pair of hands just like Hillary would be great for Republicans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 13, 2017, 04:51:09 PM
Agreed Whitey. The same auld shite isn't going to fly with the electorate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2017, 04:53:31 PM
There are few candidates who would come with the negative baggage, both real and imagined, that Hillary did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on December 13, 2017, 05:13:20 PM
Trump got elected on a platform that any strong Democratic candidate should own. The Democratic problem is they're as influenced by big money as Republicans if not more.

Bernie would be an ideal candidate who appears has strength in his cinvictions with a populous movement but perhaps by 2020 will be too old.

Stew might say a lot of stuff you don't agree with but he is right that Hilary was an awful candidate who was devisive. She lost to Trump ffs. A charasmatic social democratic would clean up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 05:44:21 PM
Just going to sit back and let the GOP spin-doctors go to work i.e Whitey and Fox Commander. This is the second stage in the uprising against Trump. After only a year, Trump and his reforms, promises, sexual misconduct and poor use of words, has led his approval ratings to sink to a new low. Multiply this by 4 and I reckon Hillary will be begged back to stand again. Democrat win in 2020 is as close to a certainty as you can get....the only bigger certainty is Faugheen winning the Champion Hurdle in 2018.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2017, 05:49:33 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 05:44:21 PM
Just going to sit back and let the GOP spin-doctors go to work i.e Whitey and Fox Commander. This is the second stage in the uprising against Trump. After only a year, Trump and his reforms, promises, sexual misconduct and poor use of words, has led his approval ratings to sink to a new low. Multiply this by 4 and I reckon Hillary will be begged back to stand again. Democrat win in 2020 is as close to a certainty as you can get....the only bigger certainty is Faugheen winning the Champion Hurdle in 2018.

Hillary will not be anywhere near the ticket in 2020. She's had two attempts now, and her own arrogance and sense of entitlement went a long way towards dooming her against possibly the worst candidate and human being to ever run for the office.

And the Dems' odds depend on who they nominate, whether Trump is still the incumbent, and what happens, for good or ill, between now and then. Three years off is way too soon to be predicting anything in politics in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 05:53:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2017, 05:49:33 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 05:44:21 PM
Just going to sit back and let the GOP spin-doctors go to work i.e Whitey and Fox Commander. This is the second stage in the uprising against Trump. After only a year, Trump and his reforms, promises, sexual misconduct and poor use of words, has led his approval ratings to sink to a new low. Multiply this by 4 and I reckon Hillary will be begged back to stand again. Democrat win in 2020 is as close to a certainty as you can get....the only bigger certainty is Faugheen winning the Champion Hurdle in 2018.

Hillary will not be anywhere near the ticket in 2020. She's had two attempts now, and her own arrogance and sense of entitlement went a long way towards dooming her against possibly the worst candidate and human being to ever run for the office.

And the Dems' odds depend on who they nominate, whether Trump is still the incumbent, and what happens, for good or ill, between now and then. Three years off is way too soon to be predicting anything in politics in the US.

It's too soon to be predicting who will beat Trump, but he will be beat. This is the only start of the dominoes falling. In the space of a week, he upset his own voters in a Red State and the Muslim community in the World...that's no mean feat. Give him 4 years and the Pope will be coming out against him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 13, 2017, 06:08:42 PM
The thing is he has tried to  do every thing he promised.  Those who voted for him will do so again.  If the Democrats ran Hillary again, they'd deserve the same result.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2017, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 05:44:21 PM
Just going to sit back and let the GOP spin-doctors go to work i.e Whitey and Fox Commander. This is the second stage in the uprising against Trump. After only a year, Trump and his reforms, promises, sexual misconduct and poor use of words, has led his approval ratings to sink to a new low. Multiply this by 4 and I reckon Hillary will be begged back to stand again. Democrat win in 2020 is as close to a certainty as you can get....the only bigger certainty is Faugheen winning the Champion Hurdle in 2018.

I deal in facts not spin

Romney beat Obama by 20 points in Alabama in 212

Roy Moore was on the same ballot in a state wide contest and won his respective race by 2 points against a Democrat

So back of the napkin math (and correct me if I'm wrong) but about 1/3 of the Republicans voters who voted for Romney did NOT vote for Roy Moore in his race in 2012. He is a very unpopular figure in Alabama, but popular enough with the base to win the primary....simple as

If Luther Strange had been there n the ballot he'd have beaten the Democrat by 15-20 points

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 07:03:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 13, 2017, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 05:44:21 PM
Just going to sit back and let the GOP spin-doctors go to work i.e Whitey and Fox Commander. This is the second stage in the uprising against Trump. After only a year, Trump and his reforms, promises, sexual misconduct and poor use of words, has led his approval ratings to sink to a new low. Multiply this by 4 and I reckon Hillary will be begged back to stand again. Democrat win in 2020 is as close to a certainty as you can get....the only bigger certainty is Faugheen winning the Champion Hurdle in 2018.

I deal in facts not spin

Romney beat Obama by 20 points in Alabama in 212

Roy Moore was on the same ballot in a state wide contest and won his respective race by 2 points against a Democrat

So back of the napkin math (and correct me if I'm wrong) but about 1/3 of the Republicans voters who voted for Romney did NOT vote for Roy Moore in his race in 2012. He is a very unpopular figure in Alabama, but popular enough with the base to win the primary....simple as

If Luther Strange had been there n the ballot he'd have beaten the Democrat by 15-20 points
The GOP had a normal person in charge in 2012
Trump is a liability.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2017, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 13, 2017, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 13, 2017, 05:44:21 PM
Just going to sit back and let the GOP spin-doctors go to work i.e Whitey and Fox Commander. This is the second stage in the uprising against Trump. After only a year, Trump and his reforms, promises, sexual misconduct and poor use of words, has led his approval ratings to sink to a new low. Multiply this by 4 and I reckon Hillary will be begged back to stand again. Democrat win in 2020 is as close to a certainty as you can get....the only bigger certainty is Faugheen winning the Champion Hurdle in 2018.

I deal in facts not spin

Romney beat Obama by 20 points in Alabama in 212

Roy Moore was on the same ballot in a state wide contest and won his respective race by 2 points against a Democrat

So back of the napkin math (and correct me if I'm wrong) but about 1/3 of the Republicans voters who voted for Romney did NOT vote for Roy Moore in his race in 2012. He is a very unpopular figure in Alabama, but popular enough with the base to win the primary....simple as

If Luther Strange had been there n the ballot he'd have beaten the Democrat by 15-20 points

Strange had his own issues, but yes, he would have won fairly comfortably.

However, the Bannon wing is not interested in normal right wingers. It's going to be an interesting spring/summer in GOP land as the primaries get underway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrhardyannual on December 13, 2017, 07:18:57 PM
I'm not a Trump supporter, nor a Republican but have children living in the States and a very wide circle of friends and relations across the country. Some are die-hard Republicans, others very active Democrats. Some are former Democrats who are now Trump-Republicans but I know no Democrats who were former Republicans.

Watching people discuss American politics on the Board and elsewhere is like listening to Europeans discussing American gun culture. We just don't get it. We know what we think is the rational approach to guns, we know what a sane response to gun violence should be but we can't get the measure of the the gun-toting brigade. It's the same with Trump. You would imagine that he is in a weak position (if he headed a European democracy he'd be gone) and since we didn't expect to see him get there we don't expect him to survive. But we are judging by European standards and as such judgements are flawed.

I am amazed by the people I know to be well balanced people in secure employment, who would be moderates at home here who are Trump supporters. East coast Democrats are very liberal on social issues but have no feel for the working class. This is what Trump has tapped into. And if we think that he will be easily defeated we have learned nothing. The more the Democrats concentrate on liberal social matters the more they isolate themselves from the white-working class who rightly or wrongly see themselves as the great contributors and the least beneficiaries.

I can't wait to see the back of Trump but based on what I'm hearing I give him a better than 50% chance of getting a second term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 07:34:14 PM
The Dems dumped conyers and the other guy over harassment. It will be a huge theme in 2020. Trump.won a huge vote from women over 45 in 2016 but he is tolerant of chauvinism on top.of being an asshole.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
It doesn't matter what you're hearing, if I'm being honest. Trump appeals to a segement of the right, but no one else. It sets him at a severe handicap in general elections as in all but the last one (because the other nominee proved equally divisive) you need to solidify your base to win. Trump didn't even come close to doing that even at his brightest moment. And the energy on the left to remove him will be just as great as any passion there is for him on the alt-right.

Even the democrats won't be able to fumble the ball like the did last year a second time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2017, 07:41:33 PM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 13, 2017, 07:18:57 PM
I'm not a Trump supporter, nor a Republican but have children living in the States and a very wide circle of friends and relations across the country. Some are die-hard Republicans, others very active Democrats. Some are former Democrats who are now Trump-Republicans but I know no Democrats who were former Republicans.

Watching people discuss American politics on the Board and elsewhere is like listening to Europeans discussing American gun culture. We just don't get it. We know what we think is the rational approach to guns, we know what a sane response to gun violence should be but we can't get the measure of the the gun-toting brigade. It's the same with Trump. You would imagine that he is in a weak position (if he headed a European democracy he'd be gone) and since we didn't expect to see him get there we don't expect him to survive. But we are judging by European standards and as such judgements are flawed.

I am amazed by the people I know to be well balanced people in secure employment, who would be moderates at home here who are Trump supporters. East coast Democrats are very liberal on social issues but have no feel for the working class. This is what Trump has tapped into. And if we think that he will be easily defeated we have learned nothing. The more the Democrats concentrate on liberal social matters the more they isolate themselves from the white-working class who rightly or wrongly see themselves as the great contributors and the least beneficiaries.

I can't wait to see the back of Trump but based on what I'm hearing I give him a better than 50% chance of getting a second term.

You might be right. This is no time for complacency. The Dems had an open net in Alabama, and yet a prosecutor of KKK men had a hard team defeating a mysoginist alleged child molester. In a normal country it would have been a landslide even if someone as crazy as Moore managed to get on the ballot without being laughed off the stage like Lord Such. The US is not a normal country. All manner of deranged wackos and sickos get on the ballot and sometimes they manage to win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 13, 2017, 08:12:09 PM
Spare a thought for Omarosa in these tough times

https://www.mediaite.com/online/omarosa-reportedly-physically-dragged-out-of-white-house-after-trying-to-enter-trump-residence/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2017, 08:45:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2017, 07:41:33 PM

You might be right. This is no time for complacency.
Pretty much everything that has come from Republicans since November 2016 has been sodden through with complacency.

It's fascinating to watch.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrhardyannual on December 13, 2017, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
It doesn't matter what you're hearing, if I'm being honest. Trump appeals to a segement of the right, but no one else. It sets him at a severe handicap in general elections as in all but the last one (because the other nominee proved equally divisive) you need to solidify your base to win. Trump didn't even come close to doing that even at his brightest moment. And the energy on the left to remove him will be just as great as any passion there is for him on the alt-right.

Even the democrats won't be able to fumble the ball like the did last year a second time.
There is no left as we understand it. Even Sanders would pass for a Conservative in Ireland. College educated liberals will shout for women's rghts and LGBT rights but economically they couldn't give a sh**e for the low waged, unemployed etc. Trump doesn't either but he has them convinced he does. If you know any tradesmen in USA ask them what they think. You'll be surprised.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 08:54:18 PM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 13, 2017, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
It doesn't matter what you're hearing, if I'm being honest. Trump appeals to a segement of the right, but no one else. It sets him at a severe handicap in general elections as in all but the last one (because the other nominee proved equally divisive) you need to solidify your base to win. Trump didn't even come close to doing that even at his brightest moment. And the energy on the left to remove him will be just as great as any passion there is for him on the alt-right.

Even the democrats won't be able to fumble the ball like the did last year a second time.
There is no left as we understand it. Even Sanders would pass for a Conservative in Ireland. College educated liberals will shout for women's rghts and LGBT rights but economically they couldn't give a sh**e for the low waged, unemployed etc. Trump doesn't either but he has them convinced he does. If you know any tradesmen in USA ask them what they think. You'll be surprised.

Nope. And that's also a total no-sequitur.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2017, 09:03:43 PM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 13, 2017, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
It doesn't matter what you're hearing, if I'm being honest. Trump appeals to a segement of the right, but no one else. It sets him at a severe handicap in general elections as in all but the last one (because the other nominee proved equally divisive) you need to solidify your base to win. Trump didn't even come close to doing that even at his brightest moment. And the energy on the left to remove him will be just as great as any passion there is for him on the alt-right.

Even the democrats won't be able to fumble the ball like the did last year a second time.
There is no left as we understand it. Even Sanders would pass for a Conservative in Ireland. College educated liberals will shout for women's rghts and LGBT rights but economically they couldn't give a sh**e for the low waged, unemployed etc. Trump doesn't either but he has them convinced he does. If you know any tradesmen in USA ask them what they think. You'll be surprised.

He would in his hole
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
Trump was elected on 4/5  policy issues he said he would take care of
The southern border with Mexico building the wall
Do something about isis
Remove usa from perceived bad trade /climate  agreements
Quit the pc bs in politics call it as u see it
Bring back jobs to the USA
It helped Clinton was his opponent but these are the issues he was elected on and it may seem simplistic but ithey are the reasons and the dems had opposite opinion on every one of them and he has delivered on some of them already so he will not be defeated very easily.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
Trump was elected on 4/5  policy issues he said he would take care of
The southern border with Mexico building the wall
Do something about isis
Remove usa from perceived bad trade /climate  agreements
Quit the pc bs in politics call it as u see it
Bring back jobs to the USA
It helped Clinton was his opponent but these are the issues he was elected on and it may seem simplistic but ithey are the reasons and the dems had opposite opinion on every one of them and he has delivered on some of them already so he will not be defeated very easily.
He hasn't delivered on jobs.
He gave huge tax cuts to the rich.
And he sacked Comey.

Loser
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 10:46:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
Trump was elected on 4/5  policy issues he said he would take care of
The southern border with Mexico building the wall
Do something about isis
Remove usa from perceived bad trade /climate  agreements
Quit the pc bs in politics call it as u see it
Bring back jobs to the USA
It helped Clinton was his opponent but these are the issues he was elected on and it may seem simplistic but ithey are the reasons and the dems had opposite opinion on every one of them and he has delivered on some of them already so he will not be defeated very easily.
He hasn't delivered on jobs.
He gave huge tax cuts to the rich.
And he sacked Comey.

Loser
nobody gives a damn about comey, unemployment is at 4%, there has been no tax cuts as of today .im on the ground here not reading the gaurdian
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on December 13, 2017, 11:55:35 PM
Break down of who voted for whom in the Alabama election

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQ5Zi23UMAAZYWr.jpg

QuoteFor every 100 voters : 35 are white men, 31 are white women, 11 are black men, 17 are black women, and 6 are unspecified in race and vote
9.45 white men support Jones. 10.85 white women support Jones. 10.23 black men support Jones. 16.66 black women support Jones.

:o

There's definitely a lineage in the mindset of white folk over there with their founding fathers (whacky puritans). Its very Free P like isn't it when it comes to the type of individual they vote for. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 14, 2017, 12:35:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 10:46:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
Trump was elected on 4/5  policy issues he said he would take care of
The southern border with Mexico building the wall
Do something about isis
Remove usa from perceived bad trade /climate  agreements
Quit the pc bs in politics call it as u see it
Bring back jobs to the USA
It helped Clinton was his opponent but these are the issues he was elected on and it may seem simplistic but ithey are the reasons and the dems had opposite opinion on every one of them and he has delivered on some of them already so he will not be defeated very easily.
He hasn't delivered on jobs.
He gave huge tax cuts to the rich.
And he sacked Comey.

Loser
nobody gives a damn about comey, unemployment is at 4%, there has been no tax cuts as of today .im on the ground here not reading the gaurdian

US Unemployment Rate
(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2007_2017_all_period_M11_data.gif)
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000)

Don't see much of Trump effect there. Simply the same trend since 2010. Not that I would hold it against him if it levels off - you can only go so low.

The tax cuts will be passed next week, barring some last minute hitch.

Mueller gives a damn about Comey. And Trump definitely gives a damn about Mueller.

As for political correctness, if you think bald-faced lying and endless childish tantrums and coarse insults is a good thing, well each to their own I guess. I don't see how he is doing the country any favours, either internally or externally on that count. Or his party for that matter.

Border wall... we'll see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 14, 2017, 12:36:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2017, 07:41:33 PM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 13, 2017, 07:18:57 PM
I'm not a Trump supporter, nor a Republican but have children living in the States and a very wide circle of friends and relations across the country. Some are die-hard Republicans, others very active Democrats. Some are former Democrats who are now Trump-Republicans but I know no Democrats who were former Republicans.

Watching people discuss American politics on the Board and elsewhere is like listening to Europeans discussing American gun culture. We just don't get it. We know what we think is the rational approach to guns, we know what a sane response to gun violence should be but we can't get the measure of the the gun-toting brigade. It's the same with Trump. You would imagine that he is in a weak position (if he headed a European democracy he'd be gone) and since we didn't expect to see him get there we don't expect him to survive. But we are judging by European standards and as such judgements are flawed.

I am amazed by the people I know to be well balanced people in secure employment, who would be moderates at home here who are Trump supporters. East coast Democrats are very liberal on social issues but have no feel for the working class. This is what Trump has tapped into. And if we think that he will be easily defeated we have learned nothing. The more the Democrats concentrate on liberal social matters the more they isolate themselves from the white-working class who rightly or wrongly see themselves as the great contributors and the least beneficiaries.

I can't wait to see the back of Trump but based on what I'm hearing I give him a better than 50% chance of getting a second term.

You might be right. This is no time for complacency. The Dems had an open net in Alabama, and yet a prosecutor of KKK men had a hard team defeating a mysoginist alleged child molester. In a normal country it would have been a landslide even if someone as crazy as Moore managed to get on the ballot without being laughed off the stage like Lord Such. The US is not a normal country. All manner of deranged wackos and sickos get on the ballot and sometimes they manage to win.

And add in the fact that Republicans can vote in the Democratic Primary and Democrats can vote in the Republican primary you have all the ingredients of a train wreck. The idea is you cross Party lines to get the weakest opposition candidate on the ballot.  I have done this many myself many times

http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=291110
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 14, 2017, 12:57:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 14, 2017, 12:35:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 10:46:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
Trump was elected on 4/5  policy issues he said he would take care of
The southern border with Mexico building the wall
Do something about isis
Remove usa from perceived bad trade /climate  agreements
Quit the pc bs in politics call it as u see it
Bring back jobs to the USA
It helped Clinton was his opponent but these are the issues he was elected on and it may seem simplistic but ithey are the reasons and the dems had opposite opinion on every one of them and he has delivered on some of them already so he will not be defeated very easily.
He hasn't delivered on jobs.
He gave huge tax cuts to the rich.
And he sacked Comey.

Loser
nobody gives a damn about comey, unemployment is at 4%, there has been no tax cuts as of today .im on the ground here not reading the gaurdian

US Unemployment Rate
(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2007_2017_all_period_M11_data.gif)
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000)

Don't see much of Trump effect there. Simply the same trend since 2010. Not that I would hold it against him if it levels off - you can only go so low.

The tax cuts will be passed next week, barring some last minute hitch.

Mueller gives a damn about Comey. And Trump definitely gives a damn about Mueller.

As for political correctness, if you think bald-faced lying and endless childish tantrums and coarse insults is a good thing, well each to their own I guess. I don't see how he is doing the country any favours, either internally or externally on that count. Or his party for that matter.

Border wall... we'll see.
im saying there the reasons he was elected and that electorate do not care too much about comey and any politician would take credit for stats that make them look good.
Both parties are broken and need to be remade from the ground up ,trump is the result of it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 14, 2017, 01:46:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 14, 2017, 12:57:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 14, 2017, 12:35:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 10:46:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
Trump was elected on 4/5  policy issues he said he would take care of
The southern border with Mexico building the wall
Do something about isis
Remove usa from perceived bad trade /climate  agreements
Quit the pc bs in politics call it as u see it
Bring back jobs to the USA
It helped Clinton was his opponent but these are the issues he was elected on and it may seem simplistic but ithey are the reasons and the dems had opposite opinion on every one of them and he has delivered on some of them already so he will not be defeated very easily.
He hasn't delivered on jobs.
He gave huge tax cuts to the rich.
And he sacked Comey.

Loser
nobody gives a damn about comey, unemployment is at 4%, there has been no tax cuts as of today .im on the ground here not reading the gaurdian

US Unemployment Rate
(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2007_2017_all_period_M11_data.gif)
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000)

Don't see much of Trump effect there. Simply the same trend since 2010. Not that I would hold it against him if it levels off - you can only go so low.

The tax cuts will be passed next week, barring some last minute hitch.

Mueller gives a damn about Comey. And Trump definitely gives a damn about Mueller.

As for political correctness, if you think bald-faced lying and endless childish tantrums and coarse insults is a good thing, well each to their own I guess. I don't see how he is doing the country any favours, either internally or externally on that count. Or his party for that matter.

Border wall... we'll see.
im saying there the reasons he was elected and that electorate do not care too much about comey and any politician would take credit for stats that make them look good.
Both parties are broken and need to be remade from the ground up ,trump is the result of it

Fair enough, although I would qualify that by saying that the Republicans are a mess because of their shift way to the right and their long embrace of ignorance, ultimately leading to Trump, while the Dems currently exist as a watery, nebulous anti-Republican party, defined more by their opposition to the excesses of the GOP than anything positive of their own. The GOP has a vision or ethos, fucked up as it may be. The Dems are the status quo party (not unusual after two presidential terms) and lack a forceful, charismatic leader with a plan. Say what you will about Trump, but there's no question he is in charge and people listen when he talks, even if in horror.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 05:53:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 14, 2017, 12:35:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 10:46:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
Trump was elected on 4/5  policy issues he said he would take care of
The southern border with Mexico building the wall
Do something about isis
Remove usa from perceived bad trade /climate  agreements
Quit the pc bs in politics call it as u see it
Bring back jobs to the USA
It helped Clinton was his opponent but these are the issues he was elected on and it may seem simplistic but ithey are the reasons and the dems had opposite opinion on every one of them and he has delivered on some of them already so he will not be defeated very easily.
He hasn't delivered on jobs.
He gave huge tax cuts to the rich.
And he sacked Comey.

Loser
nobody gives a damn about comey, unemployment is at 4%, there has been no tax cuts as of today .im on the ground here not reading the gaurdian

US Unemployment Rate
(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2007_2017_all_period_M11_data.gif)
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000)

Don't see much of Trump effect there. Simply the same trend since 2010. Not that I would hold it against him if it levels off - you can only go so low.

The tax cuts will be passed next week, barring some last minute hitch.

Mueller gives a damn about Comey. And Trump definitely gives a damn about Mueller.

As for political correctness, if you think bald-faced lying and endless childish tantrums and coarse insults is a good thing, well each to their own I guess. I don't see how he is doing the country any favours, either internally or externally on that count. Or his party for that matter.

Border wall... we'll see.
2 things about that chart
It doesn't include people who have given up looking for work. The real level is more like 13%. Labour participation fell by 8 percentage points in 2008 and never recovered.

Under business as usual if unemployment is low pay rises are high and people are happy. But payrises are nor happening especially for poor people in red states. . So the result is political rage. Trump tapped into that but did nothing to address the drivers of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 14, 2017, 08:34:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
It doesn't matter what you're hearing, if I'm being honest. Trump appeals to a segement of the right, but no one else. It sets him at a severe handicap in general elections as in all but the last one (because the other nominee proved equally divisive) you need to solidify your base to win. Trump didn't even come close to doing that even at his brightest moment. And the energy on the left to remove him will be just as great as any passion there is for him on the alt-right.

Even the democrats won't be able to fumble the ball like the did last year a second time.


That is brilliant, keep thinking like that, the alt right is not the reason Trump won the election, you are as delusional as the democrats. If the democrats keep this attitude in 2020 they are toast! Their arrogance and stupidity knows no bounds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 12:41:57 PM
This song is the epitome of what Trump hates. Tolerance and respect.

https://youtu.be/xMtuVP8Mj4o

f**k Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 14, 2017, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2017, 08:34:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 13, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
It doesn't matter what you're hearing, if I'm being honest. Trump appeals to a segement of the right, but no one else. It sets him at a severe handicap in general elections as in all but the last one (because the other nominee proved equally divisive) you need to solidify your base to win. Trump didn't even come close to doing that even at his brightest moment. And the energy on the left to remove him will be just as great as any passion there is for him on the alt-right.

Even the democrats won't be able to fumble the ball like the did last year a second time.


That is brilliant, keep thinking like that, the alt right is not the reason Trump won the election, you are as delusional as the democrats. If the democrats keep this attitude in 2020 they are toast! Their arrogance and stupidity knows no bounds.


Sy.......65,000,000 people voted for him

You are either completely clueless or just trying to stir up trouble
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 14, 2017, 01:53:43 PM
Not a lot of discussion on Al Franklin resigning his senate seat.  Will this mean an election? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 14, 2017, 01:57:14 PM
The governor gets to pick a temporary replacement and already has. I think there's a special election sometime in the New Year
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 02:02:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 10:46:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 13, 2017, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 13, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
Trump was elected on 4/5  policy issues he said he would take care of
The southern border with Mexico building the wall
Do something about isis
Remove usa from perceived bad trade /climate  agreements
Quit the pc bs in politics call it as u see it
Bring back jobs to the USA
It helped Clinton was his opponent but these are the issues he was elected on and it may seem simplistic but ithey are the reasons and the dems had opposite opinion on every one of them and he has delivered on some of them already so he will not be defeated very easily.
He hasn't delivered on jobs.
He gave huge tax cuts to the rich.
And he sacked Comey.

Loser
nobody gives a damn about comey, unemployment is at 4%, there has been no tax cuts as of today .im on the ground here not reading the gaurdian

No Comey sacking no Mueller.
Sacking Comey was insane
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on December 14, 2017, 06:01:34 PM
Jerusalem debacle, sexual assualt claims, the Russia Files, and now net neu-f**king-trality disappearing. Hope them hicks that voted for Trump never are able to stream a porno into their trailer again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 07:00:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 05:53:05 AM

It doesn't include people who have given up looking for work.

So? If you're not looking for work then you don't count as unemployed. Why would you? If you don't want to work then you don't get a mention in the figures because you don't matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 07:00:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 05:53:05 AM

It doesn't include people who have given up looking for work.

So? If you're not looking for work then you don't count as unemployed. Why would you? If you don't want to work then you don't get a mention in the figures because you don't matter.
You drop out of the stats after 12 or 15 months.
The Fed and Trump say unemployment is low when it is nor.And the Philips curve which is about the relationship between unemployment and payrises and core to Fed modelling is not working.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
You drop out of the stats after 12 or 15 months.
The Fed and Trump say unemployment is low when it is nor.And the Philips curve which is about the relationship between unemployment and payrises and core to Fed modelling is not working.

The Philips Curve is the relationship between unemployment and inflation. I think it was Nixon's administration that expected to be able to fight inflation with policies that would increase unemployment. What happened was unemployment went up but so too did inflation. Instead of going back down the Philips Curve to the right, the line kept going in a clockwise loop, going up to the right through a period of stagflation before turning down to the left into a recovery period. It's been a series of clockwise loops ever since.

(https://open.lib.umn.edu/principleseconomics/wp-content/uploads/sites/180/2016/05/b2a39cea80e594f1c19afee3d5b1d547.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 14, 2017, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 07:00:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 05:53:05 AM

It doesn't include people who have given up looking for work.

So? If you're not looking for work then you don't count as unemployed. Why would you? If you don't want to work then you don't get a mention in the figures because you don't matter.
You drop out of the stats after 12 or 15 months.
The Fed and Trump say unemployment is low when it is nor.And the Philips curve which is about the relationship between unemployment and payrises and core to Fed modelling is not working.
what is the figure then 10 15 20% what are ur people telling u
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 09:14:21 PM
"Half of the three-percentage-point decline in labor-force participation since the end of 2007 is due to the aging of the workforce." CBO

For people who have given up looking for work, see:

(https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/us-discouraged-workers-us-discouraged-workers_chartbuilder.png)

Hardly an indictment of Obama policies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 10:18:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 09:14:21 PM
"Half of the three-percentage-point decline in labor-force participation since the end of 2007 is due to the aging of the workforce." CBO

For people who have given up looking for work, see:

(https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/us-discouraged-workers-us-discouraged-workers_chartbuilder.png)

Hardly an indictment of Obama policies.
I saw an analysis from 2012 that put real unemployment at 29.7m.allowing for the collapse in the labor participation rate.  Maybe it is 25 m today.
That would be around 15%.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 11:36:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 10:18:18 PM
I saw an analysis from 2012 that put real unemployment at 29.7m.allowing for the collapse in the labor participation rate.  Maybe it is 25 m today.
That would be around 15%.

Where did you see this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 14, 2017, 11:52:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 11:36:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 10:18:18 PM
I saw an analysis from 2012 that put real unemployment at 29.7m.allowing for the collapse in the labor participation rate.  Maybe it is 25 m today.
That would be around 15%.

Where did you see this?

The Moscow Times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 12:13:48 AM
Amazing what you can do when you redefine "unemployed" to include retired people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 15, 2017, 12:15:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
You drop out of the stats after 12 or 15 months.
The Fed and Trump say unemployment is low when it is nor.And the Philips curve which is about the relationship between unemployment and payrises and core to Fed modelling is not working.

The Philips Curve is the relationship between unemployment and inflation. I think it was Nixon's administration that expected to be able to fight inflation with policies that would increase unemployment. What happened was unemployment went up but so too did inflation. Instead of going back down the Philips Curve to the right, the line kept going in a clockwise loop, going up to the right through a period of stagflation before turning down to the left into a recovery period. It's been a series of clockwise loops ever since.

(https://open.lib.umn.edu/principleseconomics/wp-content/uploads/sites/180/2016/05/b2a39cea80e594f1c19afee3d5b1d547.jpg)
this is one Shane curran was  working on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrhardyannual on December 15, 2017, 12:31:52 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 14, 2017, 06:01:34 PM
Jerusalem debacle, sexual assualt claims, the Russia Files, and now net neu-f**king-trality disappearing. Hope them hicks that voted for Trump never are able to stream a porno into their trailer again.
This is more of what I'm saying about our inability to understand the USA. You mention Jerusalem and net neutrality as if they were two areas in which Trump is out of line with American thinking. He's not. Congress, both Reps and Dems have repeatedly backed this policy. Few Americans can understand any system that does not allow capital influence decision making therefore a web provider accepting payment to promote one product/site over another is like mother's milk to them. Time to be thankful you live in a highly regulated EU.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 01:03:58 AM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 15, 2017, 12:31:52 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 14, 2017, 06:01:34 PM
Jerusalem debacle, sexual assualt claims, the Russia Files, and now net neu-f**king-trality disappearing. Hope them hicks that voted for Trump never are able to stream a porno into their trailer again.
This is more of what I'm saying about our inability to understand the USA. You mention Jerusalem and net neutrality as if they were two areas in which Trump is out of line with American thinking. He's not. Congress, both Reps and Dems have repeatedly backed this policy. Few Americans can understand any system that does not allow capital influence decision making therefore a web provider accepting payment to promote one product/site over another is like mother's milk to them. Time to be thankful you live in a highly regulated EU.

Au contraire:
Poll: 83 percent of voters support keeping FCC's net neutrality rules (http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364528-poll-83-percent-of-voters-support-keeping-fccs-net-neutrality-rules)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 02:09:50 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 01:03:58 AM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 15, 2017, 12:31:52 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 14, 2017, 06:01:34 PM
Jerusalem debacle, sexual assualt claims, the Russia Files, and now net neu-f**king-trality disappearing. Hope them hicks that voted for Trump never are able to stream a porno into their trailer again.
This is more of what I'm saying about our inability to understand the USA. You mention Jerusalem and net neutrality as if they were two areas in which Trump is out of line with American thinking. He's not. Congress, both Reps and Dems have repeatedly backed this policy. Few Americans can understand any system that does not allow capital influence decision making therefore a web provider accepting payment to promote one product/site over another is like mother's milk to them. Time to be thankful you live in a highly regulated EU.

Au contraire:
Poll: 83 percent of voters support keeping FCC's net neutrality rules (http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364528-poll-83-percent-of-voters-support-keeping-fccs-net-neutrality-rules)

Everyone knows there's widespread bipartisan support for net neutrality in the US. Literally anyone who isn't in the telecoms industry has no reason not to. Republican senators were even streaming out opposing the FCC vote and the speed at which the reckless maniac Trump put in charge of the FCC is pushing it through. MrHardy's claims of having some sort of insight into the US took a big hit with that one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2017, 03:16:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 01:03:58 AM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 15, 2017, 12:31:52 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 14, 2017, 06:01:34 PM
Jerusalem debacle, sexual assualt claims, the Russia Files, and now net neu-f**king-trality disappearing. Hope them hicks that voted for Trump never are able to stream a porno into their trailer again.
This is more of what I'm saying about our inability to understand the USA. You mention Jerusalem and net neutrality as if they were two areas in which Trump is out of line with American thinking. He's not. Congress, both Reps and Dems have repeatedly backed this policy. Few Americans can understand any system that does not allow capital influence decision making therefore a web provider accepting payment to promote one product/site over another is like mother's milk to them. Time to be thankful you live in a highly regulated EU.

Au contraire:
Poll: 83 percent of voters support keeping FCC's net neutrality rules (http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364528-poll-83-percent-of-voters-support-keeping-fccs-net-neutrality-rules)

Ah FFS do you think half these cvnts even know what new neutrality is?

If I listened to the Democrats about Obamacare I have  He same doctor, same health plan and my premiums would have decreased by $2500
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 04:08:42 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2017, 11:36:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2017, 10:18:18 PM
I saw an analysis from 2012 that put real unemployment at 29.7m.allowing for the collapse in the labor participation rate.  Maybe it is 25 m today.
That would be around 15%.

Where did you see this?
Monthl'y Review


I don't think anyone in the Gorthaganny FG cumann reads it

https://monthlyreview.org/2014/01/01/the-plight-of-the-u-s-working-class/

"Although the population of working age people has increased in what is still a very weak labor market, a large number of people have stopped looking for work while others have taken part-time employment although desiring full-time work. Therefore, the number of those classified as unemployed (you must be actively looking for work to be counted as officially unemployed) is a vast under-assessment of the jobless situation.

The 7.2 percent official unemployment rate in September 2013 increases to 13.6 percent unemployed when "discouraged" and other workers "marginally attached to the labor force," and part-timers wanting full-time jobs, are included. (It should be noted that even by the narrow gauge of official unemployment accounting, 15 percent of the labor force was unemployed at some point during the year in 2011.)20

The increase in discouraged workers began even before the onset of the Great Recession, going back to the previous recession (2001) following the bursting of the dotcom bubble. The percent of the population that is actually employed or looking for work (the labor force participation rate) dropped from 67.3 percent in 2000 to 63.2 percent in September of 2013.


Although the population is aging and increasing numbers are retiring (the baby boomers are reaching retirement age), even when looking at only those considered to be in the prime working ages of twenty-five to fifty-four years old, participation rates dropped from 84.6 percent in 1999 to 80.4 percent in September 2013.

Although these percentage-point changes may seem small, the implication is that there are nearly 10 million extra people, including 1.5 million in the twenty-five to fifty-four year old age group, who would have been in the labor force if participation rates had not declined.

The BLS's estimate of those "marginally attached" to the labor force plus people working part-time but wanting full-time work is approximately another 9 million people.

Thus there are over 20 million people who are "officially" unemployed, or "marginally attached," or working part-time but wanting full-time jobs (Table 1).

But the BLS counts in its alternative measurements of unemployment merely 1.2 million of those not in the labor force—including among the marginally attached only those who looked for work in the last year (but not during the last four weeks).

But what about people who gave up looking for work more than a year ago or, if young, have never looked for work because they feel that they will not find a job?

Table 1. Estimate of Jobs Needed for Full Employment (September 2013)
Unemployed11.3 million
Marginally attached to labor force—did look for work in last year but not in last four weeks becausea) thought none was available 0.4 million
b)
of illness, lack of transportation, lack of daycare, etc.0.8 million
c) working part-time for economic reasons
7.9 million

Total BLS Estimate Un– and Underemployment  20.4 million

Number of people that would be in the labor force if participation rate had not declined from 67.3 to 63.2 percent (minus the 1.2 million not in labor force but counted above as marginally attached).8.8 million

Total jobs needed for full employment 29.2 million"

This is way bigger than a Whitey anecdote in support of the status quo.   

Where the US is creating jobs for working class people they are in healthcare or restaurants and pay less than $15 an hour .


The US economy is barely growing. What growth there is benefits the rich.
Life expectancy for poor people is falling. On the ground people in states like Indiana sense what is happening  They are very angry. Trump tapped into that and will betray them. Hillary wasn't going to do anything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 04:33:58 AM
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/opinion/republicans-working-class-taxes.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoid tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoud tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Syf, the economic system is very close to collapse. The Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort. Do you understand what that means ? 

a fella who used to play for Mayo called Ludwig Von Mises said that all debt expansion systems end in mass bankruptcies. WW2 was the result of the last one.

You support plutocracy. God only knows why. What did plutocracy ever do for Roscommon?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: guy crouchback on December 15, 2017, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoud tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Syf, the economic system is very close to collapse. The Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort. Do you understand what that means ? 

a fella who used to play for Mayo called Ludwig Von Mises said that all debt expansion systems end in mass bankruptcies. WW2 was the result of the last one.


is the ECB not a lender of last resort?
You support plutocracy. God only knows why. What did plutocracy ever do for Roscommon?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
Quote from: guy crouchback on December 15, 2017, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoud tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Syf, the economic system is very close to collapse. The Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort. Do you understand what that means ? 

a fella who used to play for Mayo called Ludwig Von Mises said that all debt expansion systems end in mass bankruptcies. WW2 was the result of the last one.


is the ECB not a lender of last resort?
You support plutocracy. God only knows why. What did plutocracy ever do for Roscommon?
The ECB would have bailed out Anglo and AIB in 2010 if it had been a lender of last resort.

When the banks blow up again the people will have to pony up again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
Quote from: guy crouchback on December 15, 2017, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoud tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Syf, the economic system is very close to collapse. The Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort. Do you understand what that means ? 

a fella who used to play for Mayo called Ludwig Von Mises said that all debt expansion systems end in mass bankruptcies. WW2 was the result of the last one.


is the ECB not a lender of last resort?
You support plutocracy. God only knows why. What did plutocracy ever do for Roscommon?
The ECB would have bailed out Anglo and AIB in 2010 if it had been a lender of last resort.

When the banks blow up again the people will have to pony up again.

Where do you think the bailout money came from, Seafoid? Because it definitely wasn't the billions we didn't have laying around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
Quote from: guy crouchback on December 15, 2017, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoud tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Syf, the economic system is very close to collapse. The Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort. Do you understand what that means ? 

a fella who used to play for Mayo called Ludwig Von Mises said that all debt expansion systems end in mass bankruptcies. WW2 was the result of the last one.


is the ECB not a lender of last resort?
You support plutocracy. God only knows why. What did plutocracy ever do for Roscommon?
The ECB would have bailed out Anglo and AIB in 2010 if it had been a lender of last resort.

When the banks blow up again the people will have to pony up again.

Where do you think the bailout money came from, Seafoid? Because it definitely wasn't the billions we didn't have laying around.
It was added onto the debt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 15, 2017, 03:48:10 PM
i have a lot of issues with the tax bill, but lets be very clear about this.

The US is a capitalist society. This tax bill further explicitly states this. The tax bill rewards and favors capital and not labor. No one has ever set out the US as a Labor economy. Now you may argue the ethics, the merits and pitfalls to a society when it gets this close to a pure capitalist system, but they are going balls out here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
Quote from: guy crouchback on December 15, 2017, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoud tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Syf, the economic system is very close to collapse. The Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort. Do you understand what that means ? 

a fella who used to play for Mayo called Ludwig Von Mises said that all debt expansion systems end in mass bankruptcies. WW2 was the result of the last one.


is the ECB not a lender of last resort?
You support plutocracy. God only knows why. What did plutocracy ever do for Roscommon?
The ECB would have bailed out Anglo and AIB in 2010 if it had been a lender of last resort.

When the banks blow up again the people will have to pony up again.

Where do you think the bailout money came from, Seafoid? Because it definitely wasn't the billions we didn't have laying around.
It was added onto the debt

So your idea of a lender is not a lender at all. Gotcha.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 04:39:15 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
Quote from: guy crouchback on December 15, 2017, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoud tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Syf, the economic system is very close to collapse. The Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort. Do you understand what that means ? 

a fella who used to play for Mayo called Ludwig Von Mises said that all debt expansion systems end in mass bankruptcies. WW2 was the result of the last one.


is the ECB not a lender of last resort?
You support plutocracy. God only knows why. What did plutocracy ever do for Roscommon?
The ECB would have bailed out Anglo and AIB in 2010 if it had been a lender of last resort.

When the banks blow up again the people will have to pony up again.

Where do you think the bailout money came from, Seafoid? Because it definitely wasn't the billions we didn't have laying around.
It was added onto the debt

So your idea of a lender is not a lender at all. Gotcha.
It is not a monetary union. The ECB is not a proper central bank.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 04:39:15 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
Quote from: guy crouchback on December 15, 2017, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoud tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Syf, the economic system is very close to collapse. The Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort. Do you understand what that means ? 

a fella who used to play for Mayo called Ludwig Von Mises said that all debt expansion systems end in mass bankruptcies. WW2 was the result of the last one.


is the ECB not a lender of last resort?
You support plutocracy. God only knows why. What did plutocracy ever do for Roscommon?
The ECB would have bailed out Anglo and AIB in 2010 if it had been a lender of last resort.

When the banks blow up again the people will have to pony up again.

Where do you think the bailout money came from, Seafoid? Because it definitely wasn't the billions we didn't have laying around.
It was added onto the debt

So your idea of a lender is not a lender at all. Gotcha.
It is not a monetary union. The ECB is not a proper central bank.

Seafoid, just because you support socialism it doesn't mean being asked to pay for your debts is even noteworthy. Communism failed, repeatedly. Capitalism is much, much more successful at supporting both people and societies. Just because it's not perfect it doesn't mean you're enlightened or even entitled to sneer at it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 04:39:15 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
Quote from: guy crouchback on December 15, 2017, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
Seafoud tried to rebuke me and then immediately linked to a publication whose entire exsistence is centered around attacking capitalism and literally supports marxism. You may as well kick the ball in your own net and be done with the discussion.
Syf, the economic system is very close to collapse. The Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort. Do you understand what that means ? 

a fella who used to play for Mayo called Ludwig Von Mises said that all debt expansion systems end in mass bankruptcies. WW2 was the result of the last one.


is the ECB not a lender of last resort?
You support plutocracy. God only knows why. What did plutocracy ever do for Roscommon?
The ECB would have bailed out Anglo and AIB in 2010 if it had been a lender of last resort.

When the banks blow up again the people will have to pony up again.

Where do you think the bailout money came from, Seafoid? Because it definitely wasn't the billions we didn't have laying around.
It was added onto the debt

So your idea of a lender is not a lender at all. Gotcha.
It is not a monetary union. The ECB is not a proper central bank.

Seafoid, just because you support socialism it doesn't mean being asked to pay for your debts is even noteworthy. Communism failed, repeatedly. Capitalism is much, much more successful at supporting both people and societies. Just because it's not perfect it doesn't mean you're enlightened or even entitled to sneer at it.
Syf

The debts were run up by the banks. Not by the people of Roscommon. The Central Bank was supposed to take the hit.

I am not a "socialist". I understand how the system works. It sucks.
I want a system that works for ordinary people. There was one between 1945 and 1979.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 07:06:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"
Castlerea had its own department store well into the 70s. . Now everything is in Galway and Athlone
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"

What part of 1945-79 was better than 2017 for the average man, woman or child in Ireland? If I'd been born then I'd have had to emigrate from Ireland to work like my father.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 07:39:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 06:30:48 PM
The Central Bank was supposed to take the hit.

The US Treasury Department bailed out the banks in 2008. Does that mean the Fed is not a proper lender of last resort? Is the Fed not a proper central bank?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:02:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 07:39:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 06:30:48 PM
The Central Bank was supposed to take the hit.

The US Treasury Department bailed out the banks in 2008. Does that mean the Fed is not a proper lender of last resort? Is the Fed not a proper central bank?
The Fed is, Eamonn. The ECB is not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"

What part of 1945-79 was better than 2017 for the average man, woman or child in Ireland? If I'd been born then I'd have had to emigrate from Ireland to work like my father.
You could buy a house on one salary.
People got payrises.
Banks didn't collapse
There were no economic crashes
Debt related suicides were unheard of
Society was more creative because the money was spread around
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"

What part of 1945-79 was better than 2017 for the average man, woman or child in Ireland? If I'd been born then I'd have had to emigrate from Ireland to work like my father.
You could buy a house on one salary.
People got payrises.
Banks didn't collapse
There were no economic crashes
Debt related suicides were unheard of
Society was more creative because the money was spread around

The economy was in deeper shìt then with huge immigration and the welfare supports you complain about were no where near as strong as they are now.

Far too many people fall into this trap of believing life was better in the olden days. It wasn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"

What part of 1945-79 was better than 2017 for the average man, woman or child in Ireland? If I'd been born then I'd have had to emigrate from Ireland to work like my father.
You could buy a house on one salary.
People got payrises.
Banks didn't collapse
There were no economic crashes
Debt related suicides were unheard of
Society was more creative because the money was spread around

The economy was in deeper shìt then with huge immigration and the welfare supports you complain about were no where near as strong as they are now.

Far too many people fall into this trap of believing life was better in the olden days. It wasn't.
You are confusing 2 things Syf.
The system by which money was distributed was far batter because it was focused on general well-being.
But there were no iPhones.

Wait s few years and people realise their pensions won't be paid. Neoliberalism sucks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"

What part of 1945-79 was better than 2017 for the average man, woman or child in Ireland? If I'd been born then I'd have had to emigrate from Ireland to work like my father.
You could buy a house on one salary.
People got payrises.
Banks didn't collapse
There were no economic crashes
Debt related suicides were unheard of
Society was more creative because the money was spread around

The economy was in deeper shìt then with huge immigration and the welfare supports you complain about were no where near as strong as they are now.

Far too many people fall into this trap of believing life was better in the olden days. It wasn't.
You are confusing 2 things Syf.
The system by which money was distributed was far batter because it was focused on general well-being.
But there were no iPhones.

Wait s few years and people realise their pensions won't be paid. Neoliberalism sucks

That is complete and utter nonsense with no basis in fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 08:33:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:02:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 07:39:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 06:30:48 PM
The Central Bank was supposed to take the hit.

The US Treasury Department bailed out the banks in 2008. Does that mean the Fed is not a proper lender of last resort? Is the Fed not a proper central bank?
The Fed is, Eamonn. The ECB is not

Why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:52:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 08:33:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:02:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 07:39:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 06:30:48 PM
The Central Bank was supposed to take the hit.

The US Treasury Department bailed out the banks in 2008. Does that mean the Fed is not a proper lender of last resort? Is the Fed not a proper central bank?
The Fed is, Eamonn. The ECB is not

Why?
Because the Germans and the Dutch were worried about moral hazard, bailing out Italian and Spanish banks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 08:53:26 PM
And how does that lead you to think the ECB isn't a "proper" central bank or a lender of last resort?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 09:43:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"

What part of 1945-79 was better than 2017 for the average man, woman or child in Ireland? If I'd been born then I'd have had to emigrate from Ireland to work like my father.
You could buy a house on one salary.
People got payrises.
Banks didn't collapse
There were no economic crashes
Debt related suicides were unheard of
Society was more creative because the money was spread around

The economy was in deeper shìt then with huge immigration and the welfare supports you complain about were no where near as strong as they are now.

Far too many people fall into this trap of believing life was better in the olden days. It wasn't.
You are confusing 2 things Syf.
The system by which money was distributed was far batter because it was focused on general well-being.
But there were no iPhones.

Wait s few years and people realise their pensions won't be paid. Neoliberalism sucks
We were behind the loop as usual - 19 60s and 19 70's were our "New Deal" years.
FF fcuks it up with their 1997 Budget of neo Liberal tax cuts and Socialist major increase in Public Spending.
As a eesult we had our new depression in the 80's as the Thatcher Reagan neo Liberalism had its initial boost.
We went down the neo Liberal route from 1997 and blew up on the double -property and banks 2008.
1930s/40s/50s/60s we could provide public housing for our people.
Now we sit back and hope the private sector will solve the housing crisis despite building houses no one can afford or charging rents no one can afford.
19 50s a State Company provided rural electrification -now we sit wringing our hands because the totally privatised communications world won't provide rural broadband.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 10:35:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 09:43:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"

What part of 1945-79 was better than 2017 for the average man, woman or child in Ireland? If I'd been born then I'd have had to emigrate from Ireland to work like my father.
You could buy a house on one salary.
People got payrises.
Banks didn't collapse
There were no economic crashes
Debt related suicides were unheard of
Society was more creative because the money was spread around

The economy was in deeper shìt then with huge immigration and the welfare supports you complain about were no where near as strong as they are now.

Far too many people fall into this trap of believing life was better in the olden days. It wasn't.
You are confusing 2 things Syf.
The system by which money was distributed was far batter because it was focused on general well-being.
But there were no iPhones.

Wait s few years and people realise their pensions won't be paid. Neoliberalism sucks
We were behind the loop as usual - 19 60s and 19 70's were our "New Deal" years.
FF fcuks it up with their 1997 Budget of neo Liberal tax cuts and Socialist major increase in Public Spending.
As a eesult we had our new depression in the 80's as the Thatcher Reagan neo Liberalism had its initial boost.
We went down the neo Liberal route from 1997 and blew up on the double -property and banks 2008.
1930s/40s/50s/60s we could provide public housing for our people.
Now we sit back and hope the private sector will solve the housing crisis despite building houses no one can afford or charging rents no one can afford.
19 50s a State Company provided rural electrification -now we sit wringing our hands because the totally privatised communications world won't provide rural broadband.

The costs involved with fiber optic networks in rural areas are astronomical. We're already far ahead of countries like the US in terms of 4G coverage and broadband pricing so I wouldn't be as quick to buy into the high speed internet hand-wringing as some are. We're in a pretty good place all things considered when you look at the position we were in half a decade ago. And Christ if our mixture of FF and FG-Lab governments don't look a damn sight better than what the US or UK have inflicted on themselves..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 11:51:03 PM
Anything is better better than the 2 thickest most ignorant countries on Earth.
It's nothing to do with FFFGLAB - It's neo Liberalism -  everything for the few fck all for the many.
Return to the 1840s -" no money? Fck off and die you useless yoke".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrhardyannual on December 16, 2017, 12:44:38 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 02:09:50 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 01:03:58 AM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 15, 2017, 12:31:52 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on December 14, 2017, 06:01:34 PM
Jerusalem debacle, sexual assualt claims, the Russia Files, and now net neu-f**king-trality disappearing. Hope them hicks that voted for Trump never are able to stream a porno into their trailer again.
This is more of what I'm saying about our inability to understand the USA. You mention Jerusalem and net neutrality as if they were two areas in which Trump is out of line with American thinking. He's not. Congress, both Reps and Dems have repeatedly backed this policy. Few Americans can understand any system that does not allow capital influence decision making therefore a web provider accepting payment to promote one product/site over another is like mother's milk to them. Time to be thankful you live in a highly regulated EU.

Au contraire:
Poll: 83 percent of voters support keeping FCC's net neutrality rules (http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364528-poll-83-percent-of-voters-support-keeping-fccs-net-neutrality-rules)

Everyone knows there's widespread bipartisan support for net neutrality in the US. Literally anyone who isn't in the telecoms industry has no reason not to. Republican senators were even streaming out opposing the FCC vote and the speed at which the reckless maniac Trump put in charge of the FCC is pushing it through. MrHardy's claims of having some sort of insight into the US took a big hit with that one.
Everyone knows is a broad statement.

A poll showing 83% support for net neutrality in USA is about as reliable as the latest poll from CNBC showing support has dropped to 52%. What percentage of people in Ireland or the USA understand what net neutrality is without having the concept explained to them? I don't  claim to have any great insight into the US, indeed as I've pointed out early it's incomprehensible at times as I think it is to most people coming from European social democracies. In this regard I think that you like many others project your own opinion onto Americans and expect to find that's that how they will think/react. From what I see and hear from people in US that I would expect to react as the "centre-ground" would here, they don't. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 16, 2017, 01:51:02 AM
Sweet. Jesus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 04:56:17 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 10:35:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 09:43:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"

What part of 1945-79 was better than 2017 for the average man, woman or child in Ireland? If I'd been born then I'd have had to emigrate from Ireland to work like my father.
You could buy a house on one salary.
People got payrises.
Banks didn't collapse
There were no economic crashes
Debt related suicides were unheard of
Society was more creative because the money was spread around

The economy was in deeper shìt then with huge immigration and the welfare supports you complain about were no where near as strong as they are now.

Far too many people fall into this trap of believing life was better in the olden days. It wasn't.
You are confusing 2 things Syf.
The system by which money was distributed was far batter because it was focused on general well-being.
But there were no iPhones.

Wait s few years and people realise their pensions won't be paid. Neoliberalism sucks
We were behind the loop as usual - 19 60s and 19 70's were our "New Deal" years.
FF fcuks it up with their 1997 Budget of neo Liberal tax cuts and Socialist major increase in Public Spending.
As a eesult we had our new depression in the 80's as the Thatcher Reagan neo Liberalism had its initial boost.
We went down the neo Liberal route from 1997 and blew up on the double -property and banks 2008.
1930s/40s/50s/60s we could provide public housing for our people.
Now we sit back and hope the private sector will solve the housing crisis despite building houses no one can afford or charging rents no one can afford.
19 50s a State Company provided rural electrification -now we sit wringing our hands because the totally privatised communications world won't provide rural broadband.

The costs involved with fiber optic networks in rural areas are astronomical. We're already far ahead of countries like the US in terms of 4G coverage and broadband pricing so I wouldn't be as quick to buy into the high speed internet hand-wringing as some are. We're in a pretty good place all things considered when you look at the position we were in half a decade ago. And Christ if our mixture of FF and FG-Lab governments don't look a damn sight better than what the US or UK have inflicted on themselves..
Ireland is not in a good place Syf. State debt is €200 bn. Looks ok cos interest rates are on the floor. If rates went to 7% servicing the debt would cost €14 bn a year and you would have another house price crash.
The Eurozone doesn't have a fire brigade so if there is another crash the value of pension assets will collapse. The system is designed to be unstable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 07:15:06 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
Correct in your last sentence Seaf as huge numbers of ordinary people got to have unbelievably decent lifestyles.
Thatcherism/Reaganism marked the end of that and since then vast quantities of wealth have been transferred to an ever decreasing band of super super rich.
Time for another "New Deal"

What part of 1945-79 was better than 2017 for the average man, woman or child in Ireland? If I'd been born then I'd have had to emigrate from Ireland to work like my father.
You could buy a house on one salary.
People got payrises.
Banks didn't collapse
There were no economic crashes
Debt related suicides were unheard of
Society was more creative because the money was spread around

The economy was in deeper shìt then with huge immigration and the welfare supports you complain about were no where near as strong as they are now.

Far too many people fall into this trap of believing life was better in the olden days. It wasn't.
You are confusing 2 things Syf.
The system by which money was distributed was far batter because it was focused on general well-being.
But there were no iPhones.

Wait s few years and people realise their pensions won't be paid. Neoliberalism sucks


That is complete and utter nonsense with no basis in fact.

Keynes designed it. He wanted to avoid the instability of a system based on debt with its crashes and depressions. He understood that debt based systems end in deflation and unsupportable levels of inequality.

The system was based on the development of aggregate demand. Not the expansion of debt.

Aggregate demand is about the money in the pockets of GAA fans and concert goers.

Under the old system social housing was built so people could get on in life. Interest rates allowed for the time value of money.

You are too young to remember the arrival of celebrity culture in the Irish media. Celebrity porn is a feature of inequality. If people dont have social mobility sell them fantasies.

We are going to get a new system anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 07:21:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 08:53:26 PM
And how does that lead you to think the ECB isn't a "proper" central bank or a lender of last resort?

Because in.order to.qualify you need
Lender of last resort
Bank. Recapitalisation
Deposit insurance
Clearly defined crisis responses which are fully funded

Money in Eurozone banks is not safe because of the ECB. This is why the Swiss franc is 30% overvalued. Money is safe in Switzerland because there is a lender of laSt resort, deposit insurance etc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 08:10:19 AM
Trump.nominee judge facepalm

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenWhitehouse/status/941484131757838337/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 16, 2017, 03:10:31 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60)

Words fail.

Any of our resident conservatives want to defend this?

This is mainstream GOP thought in this day and age.

Where is the bottom?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 03:35:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2017, 03:10:31 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60)

Words fail.

Any of our resident conservatives want to defend this?

This is mainstream GOP thought in this day and age.

Where is the bottom?

Here:

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/heather-heyers-mom-ive-had-to-hide-my-daughters-grave-from-neo-nazis/
Susan Bro — the mother of Heather Heyer, 32, who was killed in Charlottesville, VA by a white supremacist — told The Daily Beast that she has been forced to conceal her daughter's grave site because of ongoing violent threats against her and her family.

Heyer's ashes, Bro said, are in an undisclosed, unmarked location that is "completely protected" from the public. The grieving mother said she had to take that step because threats and harassment from the violent right have not stopped since the day 20-year-old James Alex Fields, Jr. plowed his car into a crowd of anti-racist protesters, killing Heyer and injuring 19 others.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 16, 2017, 04:19:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2017, 03:10:31 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60)

Words fail.

Any of our resident conservatives want to defend this?

This is mainstream GOP thought in this day and age.

Where is the bottom?

Well given that Trump has surrounded himself by the biggest hape of dunces that ever congregated in one place, I wouldnt be surprised.

2 things jump out

(1) It is "proposed" at this point.....nothing is official

(2) Is this one of these situations where the CDC solicits input from various sources and this is just one set of suggestions among many submitted......that never gets implemented.

I hope Im wrong, but this has all the elements of fake news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 16, 2017, 05:20:54 PM
Kinda like the EU legislating that all "bananas" must be straight, alledgally.  No longer a problem now with Brexit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 16, 2017, 05:43:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2017, 04:19:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2017, 03:10:31 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60)

Words fail.

Any of our resident conservatives want to defend this?

This is mainstream GOP thought in this day and age.

Where is the bottom?

Well given that Trump has surrounded himself by the biggest hape of dunces that ever congregated in one place, I wouldnt be surprised.

2 things jump out

(1) It is "proposed" at this point.....nothing is official

(2) Is this one of these situations where the CDC solicits input from various sources and this is just one set of suggestions among many submitted......that never gets implemented.

I hope Im wrong, but this has all the elements of fake news

Well it's been carried across the media, including the likes of Forbes and Fox News. CDC hasn't denied it.

Hopefully sane (not saner) heads will prevail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 16, 2017, 09:04:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 03:35:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2017, 03:10:31 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60)

Words fail.

Any of our resident conservatives want to defend this?

This is mainstream GOP thought in this day and age.

Where is the bottom?

Here:

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/heather-heyers-mom-ive-had-to-hide-my-daughters-grave-from-neo-nazis/
Susan Bro — the mother of Heather Heyer, 32, who was killed in Charlottesville, VA by a white supremacist — told The Daily Beast that she has been forced to conceal her daughter's grave site because of ongoing violent threats against her and her family.

Heyer's ashes, Bro said, are in an undisclosed, unmarked location that is "completely protected" from the public. The grieving mother said she had to take that step because threats and harassment from the violent right have not stopped since the day 20-year-old James Alex Fields, Jr. plowed his car into a crowd of anti-racist protesters, killing Heyer and injuring 19 others.
seafoid do u think this story reflects us society at the moment .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 09:37:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 16, 2017, 09:04:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 03:35:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2017, 03:10:31 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer41dbd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.bb765effda60)

Words fail.

Any of our resident conservatives want to defend this?

This is mainstream GOP thought in this day and age.

Where is the bottom?

Here:

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/heather-heyers-mom-ive-had-to-hide-my-daughters-grave-from-neo-nazis/
Susan Bro — the mother of Heather Heyer, 32, who was killed in Charlottesville, VA by a white supremacist — told The Daily Beast that she has been forced to conceal her daughter's grave site because of ongoing violent threats against her and her family.

Heyer's ashes, Bro said, are in an undisclosed, unmarked location that is "completely protected" from the public. The grieving mother said she had to take that step because threats and harassment from the violent right have not stopped since the day 20-year-old James Alex Fields, Jr. plowed his car into a crowd of anti-racist protesters, killing Heyer and injuring 19 others.
seafoid do u think this story reflects us society at the moment .
I don't think it would have happened under a Clinton presidency
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2017, 10:07:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 29, 2017, 08:54:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 29, 2017, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 29, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Matt Lauer lost his job.
Charlie Rose lost his job.
Mark Halperin lost his job.
Glenn Thrush lost his job.
Billy Bush lost his job.
Harvey Weinstein lost his job.
Kevin Spacey lost his job.
But in politics...
Conyers still in Congress.
Moore still running.
Trump still President.

You forgot Al Franken......and not unrelated, you forget that millions of Democrats were out CHEERING  Bill Clinton on the campaign trail last year

You mean Ana Navarro (Republican) forgot Al Franken

https://twitter.com/ananavarro/status/935869957258309638

She's not a republican. She's a fat faux-GOP mouthpiece who works for CNN.

Case in point. She's a fat nutjob who believes she's not a democrat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDmDG06tmKQ


and as for democrat commentators - nice one Prez..stick it to Don Lemon - LOL!!

Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
Another false story, this time in the Failing @nytimes, that I watch 4-8 hours of television a day - Wrong! Also, I seldom, if ever, watch CNN or MSNBC, both of which I consider Fake News. I never watch Don Lemon, who I once called the "dumbest man on television!" Bad Reporting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on December 18, 2017, 10:10:48 PM
He can't watch all that tv in a day. He is too busy playing golf.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 19, 2017, 12:38:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 07:21:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2017, 08:53:26 PM
And how does that lead you to think the ECB isn't a "proper" central bank or a lender of last resort?

Because in.order to.qualify you need
Lender of last resort
Bank. Recapitalisation
Deposit insurance
Clearly defined crisis responses which are fully funded

Money in Eurozone banks is not safe because of the ECB. This is why the Swiss franc is 30% overvalued. Money is safe in Switzerland because there is a lender of laSt resort, deposit insurance etc

Hmm. Looks like you might be right.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-ecb-is-not-going-to-be-a-lender-of-last-resort-2011-11 (http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-ecb-is-not-going-to-be-a-lender-of-last-resort-2011-11)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 19, 2017, 12:15:19 PM
CDC Banned words.......mainly fake news

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.nationalreview.com/corner/454752/cdc-did-not-ban-words-yuval-levin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2017, 01:33:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 12:15:19 PM
CDC Banned words.......mainly fake news

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.nationalreview.com/corner/454752/cdc-did-not-ban-words-yuval-levin

I guess that casts things in a slightly better light, but not much (and there's no way that the ban, if it was every really considered, would have taken hold after the backlash). That professionals committed to protecting the public health would even have to discuss supposed "trigger" words that might upset sensitive Republicans holding the purse strings is f**king ludicrous.

And of course the purging of climate change references all across the government continues apace. Just this week, Zinke (one of the most odious of the Trump appointees) summoned a National Parks manager to DC to dress him down for a very uncontroversial tweet about the effects of climate change on desert ecosystems.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 19, 2017, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 19, 2017, 01:33:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 12:15:19 PM
CDC Banned words.......mainly fake news

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.nationalreview.com/corner/454752/cdc-did-not-ban-words-yuval-levin

I guess that casts things in a slightly better light, but not much (and there's no way that the ban, if it was every really considered, would have taken hold after the backlash). That professionals committed to protecting the public health would even have to discuss supposed "trigger" words that might upset sensitive Republicans holding the purse strings is f**king ludicrous.

And of course the purging of climate change references all across the government continues apace. Just this week, Zinke (one of the most odious of the Trump appointees) summoned a National Parks manager to DC to dress him down for a very uncontroversial tweet about the effects of climate change on desert ecosystems.

2 issues....The WAPO obviously had an agenda when they wrote the story. What are they playing into Trumps hands.......FFS there's enough 100% real bad stuff they could be reporting on and once again he can say......See I told you so......fake news

This  is the classic MSM twist and spin.....well even though it's not real, enough of it is real to back up some other point I'm trying to make.

Have the WAPO gone back and corrected their headline

And from my reading, the suggestion was made at the request of career bureaucrats within the CDC.....not Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2017, 04:38:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 19, 2017, 01:33:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 12:15:19 PM
CDC Banned words.......mainly fake news

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.nationalreview.com/corner/454752/cdc-did-not-ban-words-yuval-levin

I guess that casts things in a slightly better light, but not much (and there's no way that the ban, if it was every really considered, would have taken hold after the backlash). That professionals committed to protecting the public health would even have to discuss supposed "trigger" words that might upset sensitive Republicans holding the purse strings is f**king ludicrous.

And of course the purging of climate change references all across the government continues apace. Just this week, Zinke (one of the most odious of the Trump appointees) summoned a National Parks manager to DC to dress him down for a very uncontroversial tweet about the effects of climate change on desert ecosystems.

2 issues....The WAPO obviously had an agenda when they wrote the story. What are they playing into Trumps hands.......FFS there's enough 100% real bad stuff they could be reporting on and once again he can say......See I told you so......fake news

This  is the classic MSM twist and spin.....well even though it's not real, enough of it is real to back up some other point I'm trying to make.

Have the WAPO gone back and corrected their headline

And from my reading, the suggestion was made at the request of career bureaucrats within the CDC.....not Trump

f**king right enough of it is real to be of concern:

Why are "career bureaucrats" i.e. public health professionals from the medical and scientific fields, even discussing guarding and choosing their words so as not to upset politicians? Why is the EPA scrubbing their public material of all references to climate change? Why are the likes of Zinke and Pruitt talking of non-political career professionals being "disloyal" and trying to drive them out just because they're trying to do honest, science-based, work?

Because the GOP and this administration in particular is engaged in a fraudulent crusade to discredit and ignore science, science professionals and science-based policy (haven't even touched on science issues such as evolution or even history).

Let's put it this way. If the story this time WAS in fact inaccurate, its not because what was reported was implausible or unprecedented.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 19, 2017, 06:10:30 PM
SO what exactly did the WAPO achieve by embellishing and misrepresenting other than giving Trump and his supporters another "see, I told you so"

FFS were not talking about Mother Jones or the Huff Post here......report the he fvckin story as it happened and stop making $hite up.......is that too much to expect?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2017, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 06:10:30 PM
SO what exactly did the WAPO achieve by embellishing and misrepresenting other than giving Trump and his supporters another "see, I told you so"

FFS were not talking about Mother Jones or the Huff Post here......report the he fvckin story as it happened and stop making $hite up.......is that too much to expect?

I'll let the Post address your claims that they "made shite up", as opposed to reporting accurately on the meeting and the list of words relating to the budget, based on a source who was supposedly there, only for the CDC to wait four days to downplay the story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 19, 2017, 09:00:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 19, 2017, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 06:10:30 PM
SO what exactly did the WAPO achieve by embellishing and misrepresenting other than giving Trump and his supporters another "see, I told you so"

FFS were not talking about Mother Jones or the Huff Post here......report the he fvckin story as it happened and stop making $hite up.......is that too much to expect?

I'll let the Post address your claims that they "made shite up", as opposed to reporting accurately on the meeting and the list of words relating to the budget, based on a source who was supposedly there, only for the CDC to wait four days to downplay the story.

So now your implying the head of the CDC is spinning to cover for Trump

The more I read about this the worse the WAPO looks....no word was ever banned, and it certainly was never banned by Trump or anyone associated with him


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2017, 01:39:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 09:00:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 19, 2017, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 06:10:30 PM
SO what exactly did the WAPO achieve by embellishing and misrepresenting other than giving Trump and his supporters another "see, I told you so"

FFS were not talking about Mother Jones or the Huff Post here......report the he fvckin story as it happened and stop making $hite up.......is that too much to expect?

I'll let the Post address your claims that they "made shite up", as opposed to reporting accurately on the meeting and the list of words relating to the budget, based on a source who was supposedly there, only for the CDC to wait four days to downplay the story.

So now your implying the head of the CDC is spinning to cover for Trump

The more I read about this the worse the WAPO looks....no word was ever banned, and it certainly was never banned by Trump or anyone associated with him

I'm not implying anything. I think the circumstances obviously can lend themselves to the interpretation that pressure could have been brought to bear and that the CDC head could have been instructed to tidy up what was a very embarrassing allegation. Who knows? I'm sure the FOIA requests are being prepared as we speak. Regardless, whether the word list originated with political appointees OR scientists trying not to alienate ignorant Republicans in congress, either is quite telling of the overall attitude of the GOP to science.

Specifically on the Post, we'll see if they retract or correct.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 20, 2017, 12:13:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57jRBt4h6ks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 20, 2017, 12:13:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57jRBt4h6ks
Fantastic but also very sad


 http://www.vulture.com/2017/12/eminem-in-conversation.html

"The people that support him are the people he cares about the least and they don't even realise it," he added. "He's got people brainwashed."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2017, 12:21:13 PM
I like this one of Trump himself doing Talking Heads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSuregWhlWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSuregWhlWk)

(https://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/animation.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2017, 12:26:01 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 20, 2017, 12:13:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57jRBt4h6ks

Very good, if in a troubling way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2017, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 20, 2017, 01:39:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 09:00:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 19, 2017, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 06:10:30 PM
SO what exactly did the WAPO achieve by embellishing and misrepresenting other than giving Trump and his supporters another "see, I told you so"

FFS were not talking about Mother Jones or the Huff Post here......report the he fvckin story as it happened and stop making $hite up.......is that too much to expect?

I'll let the Post address your claims that they "made shite up", as opposed to reporting accurately on the meeting and the list of words relating to the budget, based on a source who was supposedly there, only for the CDC to wait four days to downplay the story.

So now your implying the head of the CDC is spinning to cover for Trump

The more I read about this the worse the WAPO looks....no word was ever banned, and it certainly was never banned by Trump or anyone associated with him

I'm not implying anything. I think the circumstances obviously can lend themselves to the interpretation that pressure could have been brought to bear and that the CDC head could have been instructed to tidy up what was a very embarrassing allegation. Who knows? I'm sure the FOIA requests are being prepared as we speak. Regardless, whether the word list originated with political appointees OR scientists trying not to alienate ignorant Republicans in congress, either is quite telling of the overall attitude of the GOP to science.

Specifically on the Post, we'll see if they retract or correct.

FYI....the (non) banned words which were (nt) drafted personally by Trump is part of the war on women. 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/12/18/trumps-latest-assault-on-women/?utm_term=.0fe4f31188c1

And you wonder why people watch Fox News and read Breitbart
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2017, 04:11:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 20, 2017, 01:39:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 09:00:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 19, 2017, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2017, 06:10:30 PM
SO what exactly did the WAPO achieve by embellishing and misrepresenting other than giving Trump and his supporters another "see, I told you so"

FFS were not talking about Mother Jones or the Huff Post here......report the he fvckin story as it happened and stop making $hite up.......is that too much to expect?

I'll let the Post address your claims that they "made shite up", as opposed to reporting accurately on the meeting and the list of words relating to the budget, based on a source who was supposedly there, only for the CDC to wait four days to downplay the story.

So now your implying the head of the CDC is spinning to cover for Trump

The more I read about this the worse the WAPO looks....no word was ever banned, and it certainly was never banned by Trump or anyone associated with him

I'm not implying anything. I think the circumstances obviously can lend themselves to the interpretation that pressure could have been brought to bear and that the CDC head could have been instructed to tidy up what was a very embarrassing allegation. Who knows? I'm sure the FOIA requests are being prepared as we speak. Regardless, whether the word list originated with political appointees OR scientists trying not to alienate ignorant Republicans in congress, either is quite telling of the overall attitude of the GOP to science.

Specifically on the Post, we'll see if they retract or correct.

FYI....the (non) banned words which were (nt) drafted personally by Trump is part of the war on women. 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/12/18/trumps-latest-assault-on-women/?utm_term=.0fe4f31188c1

And you wonder why people watch Fox News and read Breitbart

Edit: I've no idea what the article says - it's behind a paywall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2017, 04:33:59 PM
This type of crap..


Since the 1970s, feminists have used the power of the written word to demand bodily rights — birth control, abortion, freedom from coercive sterilization, choices in childbirth — as part of their quest to achieve full equality. The banned words don't just try to silence women, they attempt to dismantle these feminist gains.

Women's health first emerged as a major social and political issue in the turbulent late 1960s. Women inspired by the civil rights movement and its demand for equal citizenship created a new wave of feminist activism. At the core of this activism was asserting that the most private, personal aspects of their identity — relationships, sexuality, health and family life — were political. In other words, personal experiences rooted in sexism could be channeled into "consciousness-raising," a form of political action designed to elicit discussion about such topics as women's relationships, their roles in marriage and their feelings about childbearing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 20, 2017, 04:46:59 PM
Bravo liberals. Use kids to push your message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2UiatsAs4o

Disgraceful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 20, 2017, 04:51:11 PM
No - this is disgraceful

QuoteIt's been 81 days since Congress let CHIP, the children's health insurance program that insures 9,000,000 expire.


Good to see you have your priorities straight
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2017, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 20, 2017, 04:51:11 PM
No - this is disgraceful

QuoteIt's been 81 days since Congress let CHIP, the children's health insurance program that insures 9,000,000 expire.


Good to see you have your priorities straight

At this point I dont even know what to believe because everyone is spinning and bullshitting

liberals say that due to the new tax bill something like 13 Million people are going to lose their health insurance. 

In reality, the tax bill eliminates the IRS penalty for people who dont buy insurance......no one is going to lose their insurance unless they chose to.  For many the new premiums under Obamacare are just off the fvckin charts.....and they were told by the chosen one that their premiums would go down by $2500.  I know people whove gone from $18k to close to $35K

So
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2017, 05:48:01 PM
And the effects of the loss of all those healthy people from the insurance pools will help people because...?

The mandate was a conservative idea originally, and a good one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2017, 05:58:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 20, 2017, 05:48:01 PM
And the effects of the loss of all those healthy people from the insurance pools will help people because...?

The mandate was a conservative idea originally, and a good one.

Thats a stretch and you know it, but keep spinning if it makes you feel better.....some conservatives in the mid 90s drafted a policy document (among many drafts that didnt include it) in response to Hillarycare that was never even put to a vote, while most other Republicans have always opposed it.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

http://prospect.org/article/no-obamacare-wasnt-republican-proposal
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2017, 06:05:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 04:33:59 PM
This type of crap..


Since the 1970s, feminists have used the power of the written word to demand bodily rights — birth control, abortion, freedom from coercive sterilization, choices in childbirth — as part of their quest to achieve full equality. The banned words don't just try to silence women, they attempt to dismantle these feminist gains.

Women's health first emerged as a major social and political issue in the turbulent late 1960s. Women inspired by the civil rights movement and its demand for equal citizenship created a new wave of feminist activism. At the core of this activism was asserting that the most private, personal aspects of their identity — relationships, sexuality, health and family life — were political. In other words, personal experiences rooted in sexism could be channeled into "consciousness-raising," a form of political action designed to elicit discussion about such topics as women's relationships, their roles in marriage and their feelings about childbearing.

Why is it "crap"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2017, 06:25:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 05:58:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 20, 2017, 05:48:01 PM
And the effects of the loss of all those healthy people from the insurance pools will help people because...?

The mandate was a conservative idea originally, and a good one.

Thats a stretch and you know it, but keep spinning if it makes you feel better.....some conservatives in the mid 90s drafted a policy document (among many drafts that didnt include it) in response to Hillarycare that was never even put to a vote, while most other Republicans have always opposed it.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

http://prospect.org/article/no-obamacare-wasnt-republican-proposal

What part "a conservative idea" don't you understand?

I didn't say it was a GOP idea or that it was embraced by all conservatives. Nor did I say "Obamacare". I said "mandate".

The Prospect article you posted even states that the mandate was a Heritage idea.??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2017, 07:14:10 PM
Lots of think tanks have all types of ideas all the time....99% of which never become either policies or positions. To say this was a conservative idea is intellectually dishonest

But keep spinning.....the American people have finally figured out what the Democrats are all about and voted accordingly last November

Unfortunately the person they turned to is an even bigger bullshitter than Hillary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2017, 07:44:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 07:14:10 PM
Lots of think tanks have all types of ideas all the time....99% of which never become either policies or positions. To say this was a conservative idea is intellectually dishonest

But keep spinning.....the American people have finally figured out what the Democrats are all about and voted accordingly last November

Unfortunately the person they turned to is an even bigger bullshitter than Hillary
tr**p got a wafer thin majority.
And Alabama recently voted GOP, did it ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2017, 09:23:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 07:14:10 PM
Lots of think tanks have all types of ideas all the time....99% of which never become either policies or positions. To say this was a conservative idea is intellectually dishonest

But keep spinning.....the American people have finally figured out what the Democrats are all about and voted accordingly last November

Unfortunately the person they turned to is an even bigger bullshitter than Hillary

I'm sorry, you post a link confirming exactly what I said and then accuse me of intellectual dishonesty? ;D

Suit yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2017, 09:40:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 07:14:10 PM

But keep spinning.....the American people have finally figured out what the Democrats are all about and voted accordingly last November


Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million. "The American people" did not vote for Trump. "Keep spinning" indeed!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2017, 09:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 07:14:10 PM
To say this was a conservative idea is intellectually dishonest

How?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2017, 09:45:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2017, 09:40:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 07:14:10 PM

But keep spinning.....the American people have finally figured out what the Democrats are all about and voted accordingly last November


Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million. "The American people" did not vote for Trump. "Keep spinning" indeed!

The American people don't elect the President....the Electoral College does and he won the electoral college by a wide margin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2017, 02:30:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2017, 09:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 07:14:10 PM
To say this was a conservative idea is intellectually dishonest

How?

There's an element of truth that's taken completely out of context

It's exactly like when Republicans say that the Clinton campaign were the original birthers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 21, 2017, 03:21:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2017, 09:40:39 PM

Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million. "The American people" did not vote for Trump. "Keep spinning" indeed!

And celebrate Hillarys win with a cool glass of turnip juice

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA9A6i4WwAEPSqH.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2017, 05:43:06 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 21, 2017, 03:21:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2017, 09:40:39 PM

Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million. "The American people" did not vote for Trump. "Keep spinning" indeed!

And celebrate Hillarys win with a cool glass of turnip juice

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA9A6i4WwAEPSqH.jpg)

Trump is taking the piss. 50% of a $1.5 tn tax cut goes to the ultra rich who own half of all assets.

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2017, 07:48:21 AM
This is a great state of the nation

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/21/us-life-expectancy-down-for-second-year-in-a-row-amid-opioid-crisis

Life expectancy in the US has declined for the second year in a row as the opioid crisis continues to ravage the nation.

It is the first time in half a century that there have been two consecutive years of declining life expectancy.

Drug overdoses killed 63,600 Americans in 2016, an increase of 21% over the previous year, researchers at the National Center for Health Statistics found.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2017, 12:01:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2017, 02:30:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2017, 09:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2017, 07:14:10 PM
To say this was a conservative idea is intellectually dishonest

How?

There's an element of truth that's taken completely out of context

It's exactly like when Republicans say that the Clinton campaign were the original birthers

If by "same" you mean that an influential conservative think tank (and, later, politicians such as the Speaker of the House) promoting a proposal from the late 80s through at least the mid 90s is the same as some kook joining with a campaign volunteer to try to sabotage a presidential candidate through frivolous law suits.

You seem very sensitive about the "binders full of women" comment, which suggests you were a strong supporter of Mitt Romney when he was governor of your state who signed an insurance mandate into law.

Forbes (hardly a bastion of liberalism) reported on an exchange between Romney and Newt Gingrich during the 2011 RNC presidential debates, where Gingrich admits to supporting the mandate idea, which according to the exchange, came out of the Heritage Foundation (the context at the time, if I remember correctly, was Gingrich's extended assault on Romney over various issues over a number of months, including "Romneycare" and the "vulture capitalism" of Bain Capital).

ROMNEY: Actually, Newt, we got the idea of an individual mandate from you.

GINGRICH: That's not true. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: Yes, we got it from you, and you got it from the Heritage Foundation and from you.

GINGRICH: Wait a second. What you just said is not true. You did not get that from me. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: And you never supported them?

GINGRICH: I agree with them, but I'm just saying, what you said to this audience just now plain wasn't true.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMNEY: OK. Let me ask, have you supported in the past an individual mandate?

GINGRICH: I absolutely did with the Heritage Foundation against Hillarycare.

ROMNEY: You did support an individual mandate?

ROMNEY: Oh, OK. That's what I'm saying. We got the idea from you and the Heritage Foundation.

GINGRICH: OK. A little broader.

ROMNEY: OK.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/#5f2ea1806187 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/#5f2ea1806187)

The Forbes piece also includes comments by James Taranto, a high profile WSJ conservative writer who talks about the Heritage Foundation's embrace of the mandate (which he says he did not personally agree with at the time, even though he worked there).

And there is other material out there, including by Stuart Butler, the Heritage fellow who developed it. He later backtracked amidst the Obamacare debate and claimed that he was only talking about catastrophic coverage, but come on, the idea of a mandate is to pool the risk and costs, and serious illnesses and accidents that would come under "catastrophic" insurance is where all the big costs come from. That they weren't talking about mandating coverage to the same comprehensive level as Obamacare is a weak distinction. Besides, they left room in there for mandating additional coverage such as for preventative care and so on. As Taranto is quoted: " Whatever the particular differences, the Heritage mandate was indistinguishable in principle from the Obamacare one. In both cases, the federal government would force individuals to purchase a product from a private company – something that Congress has never done before".

Whereas in terms of Clinton and birtherism, the strongest connection I can find is your man Philip Berger who filed all the law suits hooking up with Linda Starr, a Clinton campaign volunteer. Not Clinton herself. Not anyone high up in the campaign. Not any official campaign tactic or position.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2017, 01:43:48 PM
Believe what you want....if you think that was an official policy position of the Republican party thats your perogative, but in my view its just fake news and spin


Fact checkers judged this statement to be half true....if you want to hang your hat on half truths, well thats on you,



If I went back and looked at every think thank that ever advised the Democratic Party Im sure I could find some very interesting suggestions that never saw the light of day in any meaningful way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2017, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2017, 01:43:48 PM
Believe what you want....if you think that was an official policy position of the Republican party thats your perogative, but in my view its just fake news and spin


Fact checkers judged this statement to be half true....if you want to hang your hat on half truths, well thats on you,



If I went back and looked at every think thank that ever advised the Democratic Party Im sure I could find some very interesting suggestions that never saw the light of day in any meaningful way

You're embarrassing yourself.

And where did I say it was the "official policy position of the Republican Party"?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2017, 03:05:31 PM
you used the term "conservative proposal" as a way of pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans repealing the individual mandate.

I guess Im not surprised by your grammatical gyrations.....your support a party and ideology that actually tried to muddy the waters of an investigation by the debating the meaning of the word  "is".

You said what you said.  I dont quite understand why the backtracking


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2017, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2017, 03:05:31 PM
you used the term "conservative proposal" as a way of pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans repealing the individual mandate.

I guess Im not surprised by your grammatical gyrations.....your support a party and ideology that actually tried to muddy the waters of an investigation by the debating the meaning of the word  "is".

You said what you said.  I dont quite understand why the backtracking

I haven't backtracked.

I still say it was a conservative proposal and my previous posts support that very strongly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 21, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Your one in the UN is fairly giving it both barrels today . . . fair play to her endorsing the oppression of 5 million people.

Go USA!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on December 21, 2017, 04:48:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Your one in the UN is fairly giving it both barrels today . . . fair play to her endorsing the oppression of 5 million people.

Go USA!!

If you have no money you will have no justice Jewmerica will see to that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on December 21, 2017, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2017, 01:43:48 PM
Believe what you want....if you think that was an official policy position of the Republican party thats your perogative, but in my view its just fake news and spin


Fact checkers judged this statement to be half true....if you want to hang your hat on half truths, well thats on you,



If I went back and looked at every think thank that ever advised the Democratic Party Im sure I could find some very interesting suggestions that never saw the light of day in any meaningful way

Maybe a good way to start squaring this endless circle is with some agreeable definitions.

What is a half truth?

What is fake news?

If it is a half truth that my wife had an affair - would I consider it to be fake news?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2017, 05:07:24 PM
What's a "conservative"?

What's a "proposal"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 21, 2017, 07:11:54 PM
It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2017, 07:20:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2017, 05:07:24 PM
What's a "conservative"?

What's a "proposal"?

What's the definition of "what?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2017, 08:45:39 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on December 21, 2017, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2017, 01:43:48 PM
Believe what you want....if you think that was an official policy position of the Republican party thats your perogative, but in my view its just fake news and spin


Fact checkers judged this statement to be half true....if you want to hang your hat on half truths, well thats on you,



If I went back and looked at every think thank that ever advised the Democratic Party Im sure I could find some very interesting suggestions that never saw the light of day in any meaningful way

Maybe a good way to start squaring this endless circle is with some agreeable definitions.

What is a half truth?

What is fake news?

If it is a half truth that my wife had an affair - would I consider it to be fake news?

Well according to Bill Clinton if your wife performed oral sex on a man only SHE would be considered to have engaged in sexual relations. On the other hand if the man performed oral sex on your wife only HE would have engaged in sexual relations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2017, 09:15:27 PM
If Bill Clinton is still fair game in these discussions then it seems only fair that we can devote a few pages to the antics of Richard Nixon. What say you, Whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2017, 10:49:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2017, 09:15:27 PM
If Bill Clinton is still fair game in these discussions then it seems only fair that we can devote a few pages to the antics of Richard Nixon. What say you, Whitey?

Why would I care......I'm a registered Independent

(And btw.....I didn't see Richard Nixon on the campaign trail last year either)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ashman on December 21, 2017, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Your one in the UN is fairly giving it both barrels today . . . fair play to her endorsing the oppression of 5 million people.

Go USA!!

The US has been oppressing Palestinians for decades .

The Jereusalem capital thing really changes fcuk all . 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on December 22, 2017, 12:58:16 AM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25508094_1732429363454140_3520222915210102052_n.jpg?oh=37b6d579baedef4343c1ac8e032abdcd&oe=5ABC7A0E)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on December 22, 2017, 01:17:41 AM
Quote from: ashman on December 21, 2017, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Your one in the UN is fairly giving it both barrels today . . . fair play to her endorsing the oppression of 5 million people.

Go USA!!

The US has been oppressing Palestinians for decades .

The Jereusalem capital thing really changes fcuk all .

It sure changed the lives of those who have died because of a useless, hateful piece of diplomacy. Trump's attempts to bully the UN mimics the sort of shít his mate Putin engages in. The sooner this fool is a footnote in history the better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: give her dixie on December 22, 2017, 01:32:46 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2017, 01:17:41 AM
Quote from: ashman on December 21, 2017, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Your one in the UN is fairly giving it both barrels today . . . fair play to her endorsing the oppression of 5 million people.

Go USA!!

The US has been oppressing Palestinians for decades .

The Jereusalem capital thing really changes fcuk all .

It sure changed the lives of those who have died because of a useless, hateful piece of diplomacy. Trump's attempts to bully the UN mimics the sort of shít his mate Putin engages in. The sooner this fool is a footnote in history the better.

Just like the NRA owns most politicians in the US, so too do the Israeli lobby AIPAC.

They have bought and owned practically all those in power in the US, and despite what the world thinks, they back Israel to the hilt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on December 22, 2017, 02:24:19 AM
Cynthia McKinney told the truth about Israel and it cost her dearly. It finished her political career.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 22, 2017, 02:28:19 AM
In fairness, her da's comments and some other stuff might have had more to do with it:

Other factors in her defeat were her controversial statements regarding Bush's involvement in 9/11,[22][30] her opposition to aid to Israel, a perceived support of Palestinian and Arab causes, and alleged antisemitism by her supporters.[31][32][33][34] and on the night before the primary election, McKinney's father stated on Atlanta television that "Jews have bought everybody ... J-E-W-S."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_McKinney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_McKinney)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 28, 2017, 07:40:09 PM
The biggest recipient of US aid is also the richest.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C81SpPeXkAEMk41.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 31, 2017, 08:14:31 AM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )
Up the RA.
But prices are fake and bear no relationship to reality.Revenues are stagnant  The richest 1% of Yanks own more than half of stocks. Never forget that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 31, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Nah, we simply need the bleeding heart liberals to f**k away off!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 31, 2017, 06:34:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Just in from Fox News: liberal GAAboard poster calls for the blood of conservatives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 31, 2017, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Nah, we simply need the bleeding heart liberals to f**k away off!

Nothing wrong with a point of view, as long as it is debated logically and honestly, and open to correction when demonstrably wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 31, 2017, 07:26:34 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 31, 2017, 06:34:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Just in from Fox News: liberal GAAboard poster calls for the blood of conservatives.

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on December 31, 2017, 09:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Nah, we simply need the bleeding heart liberals to f**k away off!

Nothing wrong with a point of view, as long as it is debated logically and honestly, and open to correction when demonstrably wrong.


There is plenty wrong with a point of view if you have a conservative point of view pertaining to the USA, then you are a racist, selfish right wing nazi on here as well in American life, thats they way the lefties roll.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 01, 2018, 03:39:40 AM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 09:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Nah, we simply need the bleeding heart liberals to f**k away off!

Nothing wrong with a point of view, as long as it is debated logically and honestly, and open to correction when demonstrably wrong.


There is plenty wrong with a point of view if you have a conservative point of view pertaining to the USA, then you are a racist, selfish right wing nazi on here as well in American life, thats they way the lefties roll.

Dont trigger them!!!!!


Happy New Year to all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 01, 2018, 12:21:41 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 09:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Nah, we simply need the bleeding heart liberals to f**k away off!

Nothing wrong with a point of view, as long as it is debated logically and honestly, and open to correction when demonstrably wrong.


There is plenty wrong with a point of view if you have a conservative point of view pertaining to the USA, then you are a racist, selfish right wing nazi on here as well in American life, thats they way the lefties roll.

If you could put forward a cogent, rational, honest argument, why would you care if some people react that way?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 01, 2018, 12:24:18 PM
Happy new year lads and ladies!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 01, 2018, 02:46:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 01, 2018, 12:21:41 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 09:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Nah, we simply need the bleeding heart liberals to f**k away off!

Nothing wrong with a point of view, as long as it is debated logically and honestly, and open to correction when demonstrably wrong.


There is plenty wrong with a point of view if you have a conservative point of view pertaining to the USA, then you are a racist, selfish right wing nazi on here as well in American life, thats they way the lefties roll.

If you could put forward a cogent, rational, honest argument, why would you care if some people react that way?

I dont give a f**k how liberals react, I reserve the right to loathe most of what they stand for, I earned that right, I lived in Obamas America and I was disgusted by it.

All liberals are good for these days is shutting down conservative thought/speakers, they love their transgenders and are big on abortions, they hate guns but do feck all about them and they pander to black America through BLM, they offer nothing but rail against Trump and scream racism at every turn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 01, 2018, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: stew on January 01, 2018, 02:46:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 01, 2018, 12:21:41 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 09:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Nah, we simply need the bleeding heart liberals to f**k away off!

Nothing wrong with a point of view, as long as it is debated logically and honestly, and open to correction when demonstrably wrong.


There is plenty wrong with a point of view if you have a conservative point of view pertaining to the USA, then you are a racist, selfish right wing nazi on here as well in American life, thats they way the lefties roll.

If you could put forward a cogent, rational, honest argument, why would you care if some people react that way?

I dont give a f**k how liberals react, I reserve the right to loathe most of what they stand for, I earned that right, I lived in Obamas America and I was disgusted by it.

All liberals are good for these days is shutting down conservative thought/speakers, they love their transgenders and are big on abortions, they hate guns but do feck all about them and they pander to black America through BLM, they offer nothing but rail against Trump and scream racism at every turn.

I was talking specifically about this discussion board and the quality of the debate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 01, 2018, 03:34:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 01, 2018, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: stew on January 01, 2018, 02:46:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 01, 2018, 12:21:41 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 09:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Nah, we simply need the bleeding heart liberals to f**k away off!

Nothing wrong with a point of view, as long as it is debated logically and honestly, and open to correction when demonstrably wrong.


There is plenty wrong with a point of view if you have a conservative point of view pertaining to the USA, then you are a racist, selfish right wing nazi on here as well in American life, thats they way the lefties roll.

If you could put forward a cogent, rational, honest argument, why would you care if some people react that way?

I dont give a f**k how liberals react, I reserve the right to loathe most of what they stand for, I earned that right, I lived in Obamas America and I was disgusted by it.

All liberals are good for these days is shutting down conservative thought/speakers, they love their transgenders and are big on abortions, they hate guns but do feck all about them and they pander to black America through BLM, they offer nothing but rail against Trump and scream racism at every turn.

I was talking specifically about this discussion board and the quality of the debate.

Debate? What thread are you reading?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 01, 2018, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: stew on January 01, 2018, 03:34:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 01, 2018, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: stew on January 01, 2018, 02:46:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 01, 2018, 12:21:41 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 09:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: stew on December 31, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 31, 2017, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 30, 2017, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
It's just like Rosa Parks all over again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/26/democrat-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-cites-racism-as-source-united-airlines-incident-in-statement.html


This bitch pulled straight from the Hillory Clinton playbook, thank you liberals, you inbred idiots, for the 2018 election, you lose and the rest of us win.................Bigly.


My 401 K and my Roth IRA are flying, cheers Donny, I have no time for you but by feck can you make me money, cheers, I was down 91k under the last liberal idiot that held office before you. )

If you were losing money in stocks during the Obama presidency then either you're telling lies or you're a very bad investor.

(http://contraryinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Obama-Approval-Rating-Dow-Jones-Industrial-Average.png)

How did your portfolio do under Dubya? Did you somehow do the opposite of what the market was doing then too?

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president (http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president)

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

Fake news/trends no doubt. ::)

We need some new conservative blood on this site.

Nah, we simply need the bleeding heart liberals to f**k away off!

Nothing wrong with a point of view, as long as it is debated logically and honestly, and open to correction when demonstrably wrong.


There is plenty wrong with a point of view if you have a conservative point of view pertaining to the USA, then you are a racist, selfish right wing nazi on here as well in American life, thats they way the lefties roll.

If you could put forward a cogent, rational, honest argument, why would you care if some people react that way?

I dont give a f**k how liberals react, I reserve the right to loathe most of what they stand for, I earned that right, I lived in Obamas America and I was disgusted by it.

All liberals are good for these days is shutting down conservative thought/speakers, they love their transgenders and are big on abortions, they hate guns but do feck all about them and they pander to black America through BLM, they offer nothing but rail against Trump and scream racism at every turn.

I was talking specifically about this discussion board and the quality of the debate.

Debate? What thread are you reading?

This thread obviously. You responded to the original point yourself in this very group of nested posts, which also includes references to your "claims" about the stock market, responses to which you've ignored, as per usual.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 02, 2018, 02:25:41 PM
Trump didn't crash any planes last year . . . fair play to him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 02, 2018, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 02, 2018, 02:25:41 PM
Trump didn't crash any planes last year . . . fair play to him!

He really was boasting about this!

But I suppose the last crash of a commercial US airliner in the US happened two weeks after Obama was first inaugurated in 2009. Ergo, Obama has a poor record and Trump has single handedly relaunched the US airline industry onto a path of tremendous safety after eight years of utter disaster. Or something...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 02, 2018, 08:13:48 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26169029_1557418127678860_6802229314130222927_n.jpg?oh=0e5f91c8e8ed80120228a9a56d907f9b&oe=5AFF16DA)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 02, 2018, 08:28:01 PM
With any normal president and their supporters, you would point out that Trump is only, at minimum, one quarter way through his presidency and thus has a lot of potential growth (or decline!) available to him. I wonder what the figures are for the first years of all those presidents, which would obviously be a more legitimate comparison? Or best years/average year etc.

But with Trump and his followers and the way they don't seem to understand even the most basic of statistics and trends, or worse, do understand yet purposely misuse them to deceive and falsely demonize, well f**k the lot of them!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 02, 2018, 08:35:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 02, 2018, 08:13:48 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26169029_1557418127678860_6802229314130222927_n.jpg?oh=0e5f91c8e8ed80120228a9a56d907f9b&oe=5AFF16DA)

So his handle is @jeffersonobama. Says it all really. Fake news.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2018, 01:58:40 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2018, 08:28:01 PM
With any normal president and their supporters, you would point out that Trump is only, at minimum, one quarter way through his presidency and thus has a lot of potential growth (or decline!) available to him. I wonder what the figures are for the first years of all those presidents, which would obviously be a more legitimate comparison? Or best years/average year etc.

But with Trump and his followers and the way they don't seem to understand even the most basic of statistics and trends, or worse, do understand yet purposely misuse them to deceive and falsely demonize, well f**k the lot of them!
Good point, especially since FDR served 3 terms.

Here you go, from Fortune:

QuoteWhich President Had the Best Returning Stock Market?
Looking at the S&P 500's returns during the first year of the first term of every president, Trump comes out fourth.

ROOSEVELT(1932) 30.5
KENNEDY(1960) 27
BUSH SR.(1988) 22.2
TRUMP(2016) 21
CLINTON(1992) 10.8
JOHNSON(1964) 8.3
OBAMA(2008) 8.2
HOOVER(1928) 2.9
EISENHOWER(1952) 0.2
TRUMAN(1948) -3
REAGAN(1980) -3.3
NIXON(1968) -5.7
CARTER(1976) -11.4
BUSH JR.(2000) -21.9

Stock buybacks tend to skew these numbers up a little, and there'll be plenty more of them when the tax reform kicks in. Of course we all know that the purpose of the tax bill is to enable executives to boost their share prices through buybacks and then line their own pockets with the resulting bonuses increase investment that will create jobs for ordinary working people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2018, 10:48:34 AM
Those listed years don't match the first years of their terms - FDR was inaugurated 1933, JFK '61, Obama '09, Trump '17, Hoover '29 etc.

Edit: the reason for my initial skepticism is Hoover: did he really have a positive number for his first year with the Wall St crash that October? But maybe that +2.9% was just a reflection of the extent of the bubble before the crash.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 03, 2018, 12:03:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2018, 01:58:40 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2018, 08:28:01 PM
With any normal president and their supporters, you would point out that Trump is only, at minimum, one quarter way through his presidency and thus has a lot of potential growth (or decline!) available to him. I wonder what the figures are for the first years of all those presidents, which would obviously be a more legitimate comparison? Or best years/average year etc.

But with Trump and his followers and the way they don't seem to understand even the most basic of statistics and trends, or worse, do understand yet purposely misuse them to deceive and falsely demonize, well f**k the lot of them!
Good point, especially since FDR served 3 terms.

Here you go, from Fortune:

QuoteWhich President Had the Best Returning Stock Market?
Looking at the S&P 500's returns during the first year of the first term of every president, Trump comes out fourth.

ROOSEVELT(1932) 30.5
KENNEDY(1960) 27
BUSH SR.(1988) 22.2
TRUMP(2016) 21
CLINTON(1992) 10.8
JOHNSON(1964) 8.3
OBAMA(2008) 8.2
HOOVER(1928) 2.9
EISENHOWER(1952) 0.2
TRUMAN(1948) -3
REAGAN(1980) -3.3
NIXON(1968) -5.7
CARTER(1976) -11.4
BUSH JR.(2000) -21.9

Stock buybacks tend to skew these numbers up a little, and there'll be plenty more of them when the tax reform kicks in. Of course we all know that the purpose of the tax bill is to enable executives to boost their share prices through buybacks and then line their own pockets with the resulting bonuses increase investment that will create jobs for ordinary working people.

He was elected to the Presidency four times but died about three months into his fourth term, a brilliant president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 03, 2018, 12:40:20 PM
4 terms from Trump would lead to a let them eat cake moment...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2018, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 03, 2018, 12:40:20 PM
4 terms from Trump would lead to a let them eat cake moment...

In retrospect, whatever the political motives at the time for the 22nd amendment, one has to be thankful at times like this for its passing!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on January 03, 2018, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2018, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 03, 2018, 12:40:20 PM
4 terms from Trump would lead to a let them eat cake moment...

In retrospect, whatever the political motives at the time for the 22nd amendment, one has to be thankful at times like this for its passing!

Mainly because FDR liked the idea of being a 'benign' dictator and broke the gentlemans' agreement and went for a third (and fourth!) straight term..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2018, 06:30:39 PM
So apparently now Bannon (yes Bannon!) had nothing to do with Trump's presidency, was rarely in one in one meetings with him, and "lost his mind" after being fired! ;D :D

Context: Bannon contributed to a new book in which he spilled some beans and gave not too encouraging opinions on the Russia connections and money laundering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2018, 06:58:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2018, 06:30:39 PM
So apparently now Bannon (yes Bannon!) had nothing to do with Trump's presidency, was rarely in one in one meetings with him, and "lost his mind" after being fired! ;D :D

Context: Bannon contributed to a new book in which he spilled some beans and gave not too encouraging opinions on the Russia connections and money laundering.

Haha....awkward for the Democrats when their enemies, enemy becomes their friend (sorta kinda)

Reminds me of when Nancy Regan came out in favor of stem cell research (which was in line with Obamas rather than McCains position) and all of a sudden she was an authority on the matter according to Democrats -lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on January 03, 2018, 07:15:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2018, 06:58:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2018, 06:30:39 PM
So apparently now Bannon (yes Bannon!) had nothing to do with Trump's presidency, was rarely in one in one meetings with him, and "lost his mind" after being fired! ;D :D

Context: Bannon contributed to a new book in which he spilled some beans and gave not too encouraging opinions on the Russia connections and money laundering.

Haha....awkward for the Democrats when their enemies, enemy becomes their friend (sorta kinda)

Reminds me of when Nancy Regan came out in favor of stem cell research (which was in line with Obamas rather than McCains position) and all of a sudden she was an authority on the matter according to Democrats -lol

It takes more spin than a Beyblade to get a jibe at the Democrats out of Bannon disowning Trump.

This thread is full of ideologues such as yourself who have no business discussing anything as your positions are completely intractable and predictable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2018, 07:16:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2018, 06:58:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2018, 06:30:39 PM
So apparently now Bannon (yes Bannon!) had nothing to do with Trump's presidency, was rarely in one in one meetings with him, and "lost his mind" after being fired! ;D :D

Context: Bannon contributed to a new book in which he spilled some beans and gave not too encouraging opinions on the Russia connections and money laundering.

Haha....awkward for the Democrats when their enemies, enemy becomes their friend (sorta kinda)

Reminds me of when Nancy Regan came out in favor of stem cell research (which was in line with Obamas rather than McCains position) and all of a sudden she was an authority on the matter according to Democrats -lol

Yes, this is very awkward for Democrats and Bannon is now the Oracle. That's the take home message here... ;D

Get a grip of yourself.

And the point of Nancy Reagan and other Republicans like Rob Portman suddenly seeing the light is that it's all very easy to be anti-gay or anti-stem cell research or anti- whatever until the issue hits home and affects your own personal reality. Then suddenly you see that there's human beings with real actual lives and problems who are affected, not some imaginary monster who's coming to prey on your kids.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 03, 2018, 07:29:50 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-russia-steve-bannon-michael-wolff

Donald Trump's former chief strategist Steve Bannon has described the Trump Tower meeting between the president's son and a group of Russians during the 2016 election campaign as "treasonous" and "unpatriotic", according to an explosive new book seen by the Guardian.

Trump-Russia investigation: the key questions answered

 

Read more

Bannon, speaking to author Michael Wolff, warned that the investigation into alleged collusion with the Kremlin will focus on money laundering and predicted: "They're going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV."

Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House, reportedly based on more than 200 interviews with the president, his inner circle and players in and around the administration, is one of the most eagerly awaited political books of the year. In it, Wolff lifts the lid on a White House lurching from crisis to crisis amid internecine warfare, with even some of Trump's closest allies expressing contempt for him.

Bannon, who was chief executive of the Trump campaign in its final three months, then White House chief strategist for seven months before returning to the rightwing Breitbart News, is a central figure in the nasty, cutthroat drama, quoted extensively, often in salty language.

He is particularly scathing about a June 2016 meeting involving Trump's son Donald Jr, son-in-law Jared Kushner, then campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya at Trump Tower in New York. A trusted intermediary had promised documents that would "incriminate" rival Hillary Clinton but instead of alerting the FBI to a potential assault on American democracy by a foreign power, Trump Jr replied in an email: "I love it."

The meeting was revealed by the New York Times in July last year, prompting Trump Jr to say no consequential material was produced. Soon after, Wolff writes, Bannon remarked mockingly: "The three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a foreign government inside Trump Tower in the conference room on the 25th floor – with no lawyers. They didn't have any lawyers.

"Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad shit, and I happen to think it's all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately."

Bannon went on, Wolff writes, to say that if any such meeting had to take place, it should have been set up "in a Holiday Inn in Manchester, New Hampshire, with your lawyers who meet with these people". Any information, he said, could then be "dump[ed] ... down to Breitbart or something like that, or maybe some other more legitimate publication".

Bannon added: "You never see it, you never know it, because you don't need to ... But that's the brain trust that they had."

Bannon has criticised Trump's decision to fire Comey. In Wolff's book, obtained by the Guardian ahead of publication from a bookseller in New England, he suggests White House hopes for a quick end to the Mueller investigation are gravely misplaced.

"You realise where this is going," he is quoted as saying. "This is all about money laundering. Mueller chose [senior prosecutor Andrew] Weissmann first and he is a money-laundering guy. Their path to f**king Trump goes right through Paul Manafort, Don Jr and Jared Kushner ... It's as plain as a hair on your face."

Last month it was reported that federal prosecutors had subpoenaed records from Deutsche Bank, the German financial institution that has lent hundreds of millions of dollars to the Kushner property empire. Bannon continues: "It goes through Deutsche Bank and all the Kushner shit. The Kushner shit is greasy. They're going to go right through that. They're going to roll those two guys up and say play me or trade me."

Scorning apparent White House insouciance, Bannon reaches for a hurricane metaphor: "They're sitting on a beach trying to stop a Category Five."

Trump is not spared. Wolff writes that Thomas Barrack Jr, a billionaire who is one of the president's oldest associates, allegedly told a friend: "He's not only crazy, he's stupid."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 03, 2018, 09:53:57 PM
Based on this it should be an interesting read!

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2018, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 03, 2018, 07:15:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2018, 06:58:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2018, 06:30:39 PM
So apparently now Bannon (yes Bannon!) had nothing to do with Trump's presidency, was rarely in one in one meetings with him, and "lost his mind" after being fired! ;D :D

Context: Bannon contributed to a new book in which he spilled some beans and gave not too encouraging opinions on the Russia connections and money laundering.

Haha....awkward for the Democrats when their enemies, enemy becomes their friend (sorta kinda)

Reminds me of when Nancy Regan came out in favor of stem cell research (which was in line with Obamas rather than McCains position) and all of a sudden she was an authority on the matter according to Democrats -lol

It takes more spin than a Beyblade to get a jibe at the Democrats out of Bannon disowning Trump.

This thread is full of ideologues such as yourself who have no business discussing anything as your positions are completely intractable and predictable.

Mark my words.......Bannon will now become the most believable, credible person since the time of Mother Teresa-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2018, 10:29:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2018, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 03, 2018, 07:15:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2018, 06:58:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2018, 06:30:39 PM
So apparently now Bannon (yes Bannon!) had nothing to do with Trump's presidency, was rarely in one in one meetings with him, and "lost his mind" after being fired! ;D :D

Context: Bannon contributed to a new book in which he spilled some beans and gave not too encouraging opinions on the Russia connections and money laundering.

Haha....awkward for the Democrats when their enemies, enemy becomes their friend (sorta kinda)

Reminds me of when Nancy Regan came out in favor of stem cell research (which was in line with Obamas rather than McCains position) and all of a sudden she was an authority on the matter according to Democrats -lol

It takes more spin than a Beyblade to get a jibe at the Democrats out of Bannon disowning Trump.

This thread is full of ideologues such as yourself who have no business discussing anything as your positions are completely intractable and predictable.

Mark my words.......Bannon will now become the most believable, credible person since the time of Mother Teresa-lol

The obvious and more interesting question in response is how will the right wing media treat him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2018, 11:21:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2018, 09:54:27 PM


Mark my words.......Bannon will now become the most believable, credible person since the time of Mother Teresa-lol

What was so credible about that old witch?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2018, 11:59:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2018, 11:21:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2018, 09:54:27 PM


Mark my words.......Bannon will now become the most believable, credible person since the time of Mother Teresa-lol

What was so credible about that old witch?

Well seein as she is a saint, I assume she never told a lie in her life
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2018, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 03, 2018, 09:53:57 PM
Based on this it should be an interesting read!

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html

Well the question is did he actually say what theyre saying he said


Remember this from during the election

https://www.mediaite.com/print/trump-ex-girlfriend-ny-times-twisted-my-words-to-write-hit-piece/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2018, 12:44:03 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2018, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 03, 2018, 09:53:57 PM
Based on this it should be an interesting read!

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html

Well the question is did he actually say what theyre saying he said


Remember this from during the election

https://www.mediaite.com/print/trump-ex-girlfriend-ny-times-twisted-my-words-to-write-hit-piece/

The White House certainly seems to think so.

No denial or qualification/clarification from Bannon yet either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2018, 03:20:22 AM
Lovely bit of inside track stuff here. I particularly like Rupert Murdoch getting off the phone to Trump and saying "What a f**king idiot."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html)

Select quotes:

QuoteShortly after 8 p.m. on Election Night, when the unexpected trend — Trump might actually win — seemed confirmed, Don Jr. told a friend that his father, or DJT, as he calls him, looked as if he had seen a ghost. Melania was in tears — and not of joy.

There was, in the space of little more than an hour, in Steve Bannon's not unamused observation, a befuddled Trump morphing into a disbelieving Trump and then into a horrified Trump.

----

Priebus had his own reservations: He had come out of his first long meeting with Trump thinking it had been a disconcertingly weird experience. Trump talked nonstop and constantly repeated himself.

"Here's the deal," a close Trump associate told Priebus. "In an hour meeting with him, you're going to hear 54 minutes of stories, and they're going to be the same stories over and over again. So you have to have one point to make, and you pepper it in whenever you can."

----

"Bolton's mustache is a problem," snorted Bannon. "Trump doesn't think he looks the part. You know Bolton is an acquired taste."

"Well, he got in trouble because he got in a fight in a hotel one night and chased some woman."

"If I told Trump that," Bannon said slyly, "he might have the job."

----

Trump would brag that Murdoch was always calling him; Murdoch, for his part, would complain that he couldn't get Trump off the phone.

----

This was the message whose urgency Bannon had been trying to impress on an often distracted Trump, who was already trying to limit his hours in the office and keep to his normal golf habits.

----

(Trump) could not really converse, not in the sense of sharing information, or of a balanced back-and-forth conversation. He neither particularly listened to what was said to him nor particularly considered what he said in response. He demanded you pay him attention, then decided you were weak for groveling. In a sense, he was like an instinctive, pampered, and hugely successful actor. Everybody was either a lackey who did his bidding or a high-ranking film functionary trying to coax out his performance — without making him angry or petulant.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 04, 2018, 03:55:02 AM
Based on the excerpts of Wolff's book that I've read so far, as much as I'd like it to be true, I have to approach it with skepticism. He seems to have had access to so many people, quoting them at length, a closeness that no other journalist enjoyed, that I have to question its veracity.  On the other hand, given Trump's propensity for lying, maybe such a book is just what he deserves.  But, in the end, I want books that are well researched and true, ones that aren't glorified tabloid journalism, which I fear this one may be.  I need credible sources to corroborate this guy's claims. In the meantime, Covfefe to Trump!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 09:22:49 AM
Trump goes fron crisis to crisis. Sacking Comey was really stupid but going to war with Bannon is worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 04, 2018, 10:05:24 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2018, 11:21:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2018, 09:54:27 PM


Mark my words.......Bannon will now become the most believable, credible person since the time of Mother Teresa-lol

What was so credible about that old witch?

You really are a pathetic troll eamon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 04, 2018, 10:11:16 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 04, 2018, 03:55:02 AM
Based on the excerpts of Wolff's book that I've read so far, as much as I'd like it to be true, I have to approach it with skepticism. He seems to have had access to so many people, quoting them at length, a closeness that no other journalist enjoyed, that I have to question its veracity.  On the other hand, given Trump's propensity for lying, maybe such a book is just what he deserves.  But, in the end, I want books that are well researched and true, ones that aren't glorified tabloid journalism, which I fear this one may be.  I need credible sources to corroborate this guy's claims. In the meantime, Covfefe to Trump!

Yeah looking through twitter there are a few proper journos who are saying to take it with a pinch of salt. His authors notes talk of having two completely different viewpoints of the same situation and having "recreated" conversations so I'm guessing there's a fair whack of it not true.

Given the Whitehouses response though and that Wolff and Bannon are pretty close you'd have to think Bannon's opinions are fairly accurately represented!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 04, 2018, 10:29:43 AM
Though I see Trump used the cover of this Bannon controversy to quietly disband his 'voting commission' which he claimed would prove 3 million people voted illegally for Clinton. Unlikely he'll concede there was no evidence to support his claims of voting fraud. More switch & bait.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 04, 2018, 10:48:40 AM
The Clintons have a fire at one of their mansions in  new  york, reading online the comments from republicans about them are every bit as bad as those about  trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 11:00:43 AM
Bannon knows where the bodies are. And by the looks of things Kushner and Ivanka are useless 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 11:22:28 AM
Quote from: Declan on January 04, 2018, 10:29:43 AM
Though I see Trump used the cover of this Bannon controversy to quietly disband his 'voting commission' which he claimed would prove 3 million people voted illegally for Clinton. Unlikely he'll concede there was no evidence to support his claims of voting fraud. More switch & bait.

You're living in a fantasy land where normal rules of politics apply if you think he'll ever admit to being wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 04, 2018, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: stew on January 04, 2018, 10:48:40 AM
The Clintons have a fire at one of their mansions in  new  york, reading online the comments from republicans about them are every bit as bad as those about  trump.

Are you talking about your own comments too??  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2018, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 11:00:43 AM
Bannon knows where the bodies are. And by the looks of things Kushner and Ivanka are useless

Having lived here for 30 years, one thing I have realized is that the apparent "success" of many rich people's kids ( academic or otherwise) is easily bought
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 04, 2018, 01:06:13 PM
That New Yorker excerpt has brightened up the day.
Wolff's book is gonna be a best seller,  straight to the top of the bestseller list with a bullet

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
NY Daily News cover today ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSpwZW_WsAM1l_P.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2018, 01:33:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 11:22:28 AM
Quote from: Declan on January 04, 2018, 10:29:43 AM
Though I see Trump used the cover of this Bannon controversy to quietly disband his 'voting commission' which he claimed would prove 3 million people voted illegally for Clinton. Unlikely he'll concede there was no evidence to support his claims of voting fraud. More switch & bait.

You're living in a fantasy land where normal rules of politics apply if you think he'll ever admit to being wrong.

Indeed. The main reason I posted about this yesterday was the fact that Trump was laughably and pathetically trying to discredit and downplay the significance of Bannon in his campaign and administration. Just like they did with Manafort and Flynn and the rest. Its not like I'm expecting the House GOP to jump on Bannon's alleged claims and put the committee investigations into overdrive, like they would have with similar charges about Clinton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on January 04, 2018, 01:39:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2018, 11:21:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2018, 09:54:27 PM


Mark my words.......Bannon will now become the most believable, credible person since the time of Mother Teresa-lol

What was so credible about that old witch?

Classy !!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2018, 02:35:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2018, 01:06:13 PM
That New Yorker excerpt has brightened up the day.
Wolff's book is gonna be a best seller,  straight to the top of the bestseller list with a bullet

I'm sure it will be about as credible as Clinton Cash which was also  a NY Times Bestseller
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 04, 2018, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2018, 02:35:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2018, 01:06:13 PM
That New Yorker excerpt has brightened up the day.
Wolff's book is gonna be a best seller,  straight to the top of the bestseller list with a bullet

I'm sure it will be about as credible as Clinton Cash which was also  a NY Times Bestseller

Apparently he has the tapes to back it up . . . the circus is coming to town!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2018, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 04, 2018, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2018, 02:35:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2018, 01:06:13 PM
That New Yorker excerpt has brightened up the day.
Wolff's book is gonna be a best seller,  straight to the top of the bestseller list with a bullet

I'm sure it will be about as credible as Clinton Cash which was also  a NY Times Bestseller

Apparently he has the tapes to back it up . . . the circus is coming to town!!!

If 1/10 of what was "apparently" out there about Trump, he would have had his turn in the elecitric chair by now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2018, 03:10:10 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 04, 2018, 03:55:02 AM
Based on the excerpts of Wolff's book that I've read so far, as much as I'd like it to be true, I have to approach it with skepticism. He seems to have had access to so many people, quoting them at length, a closeness that no other journalist enjoyed, that I have to question its veracity.  On the other hand, given Trump's propensity for lying, maybe such a book is just what he deserves.  But, in the end, I want books that are well researched and true, ones that aren't glorified tabloid journalism, which I fear this one may be.  I need credible sources to corroborate this guy's claims. In the meantime, Covfefe to Trump!

From the New York magazine excerpt:

HOW HE GOT THE STORY
This story is adapted from Michael Wolff's book Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House, to be published by Henry Holt & Co. on January 9. Wolff, who chronicles the administration from Election Day to this past October, conducted conversations and interviews over a period of 18 months with the president, most members of his senior staff, and many people to whom they in turn spoke. Shortly after Trump's inauguration, Wolff says, he was able to take up "something like a semi-permanent seat on a couch in the West Wing" — an idea encouraged by the president himself. Because no one was in a position to either officially approve or formally deny such access, Wolff became "more a constant interloper than an invited guest." There were no ground rules placed on his access, and he was required to make no promises about how he would report on what he witnessed.

Since then, he conducted more than 200 interviews. In true Trumpian fashion, the administration's lack of experience and disdain for political norms made for a hodgepodge of journalistic challenges. Information would be provided off-the-record or on deep background, then casually put on the record. Sources would fail to set any parameters on the use of a conversation, or would provide accounts in confidence, only to subsequently share their views widely. And the president's own views, private as well as public, were constantly shared by others. The adaptation presented here offers a front-row view of Trump's presidency, from his improvised transition to his first months in the Oval Office.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 03:32:25 PM
https://youtu.be/VX53maHeqlE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 03:52:45 PM
Wolff quotes News Corp CEO Rupert Murdoch as calling Trump a "f**king idiot." He quotes former Fox News chief Roger Ailes encouraging Bannon not to "give Donald too much to think about." The book reports that former deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh thought the White House was incompetently run. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin and former chief of staff Reince Priebus believe Trump to be an "idiot." Gary Cohn, the president's top economic adviser, regards Trump as "dumb as shit." The president's top national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, considers him a "dope." Even Trump's beloved daughter, Ivanka, seems to be in on the gag.

"She treated her father with a degree of detachment, even irony," wrote Wolff, "going so far as to make fun of his comb-over to others."

None of this, notably, includes Secretary of State Rex Tillerson own take on his boss. A "f**king moron" is how he reportedly deemed Trump. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-enraged-personally-dictates-scathing-denouncement-of-one-time-top-strategist-steve-bannon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 04:34:56 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/04/trump-lawyers-book-steve-bannon-white-house

Administration officials, he suggested, do not believe Donald Trump is capable of fulfilling his role as president.

"Everybody was painfully aware of the increasing pace of his repetitions," Wolff wrote. "It used to be inside of 30 minutes he'd repeat, word-for-word and expression-for-expression, the same three stories – now it was within 10 minutes. Indeed, many of his tweets were the product of his repetitions – he just couldn't stop saying something."

He added: "Hoping for the best, with their personal futures as well as the country's future depending on it, my indelible impression of talking to them and observing them through much of the first year of his presidency, is that they all – 100% – came to believe he was incapable of functioning in his job."

In a final anecdote, Wolff wrote: "At Mar-a-Lago, just before the new year, a heavily made-up Trump failed to recognize a succession of old friends."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2018, 04:54:50 PM
What do you think, lads? Was Samantha Bee on to something when she "joked" that Trump can't actually read and showed all sorts of clips of him refusing to read legal documents during depositions?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 05:16:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2018, 04:54:50 PM
What do you think, lads? Was Samantha Bee on to something when she "joked" that Trump can't actually read and showed all sorts of clips of him refusing to read legal documents during depositions?
I bet he has dementia
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/548759/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 06:13:09 PM
Most of ye dog-piling seem to have conveniently ignored Oraisteach's more nuanced reading of the author's motives. He's a known fabricator and embellisher - even for Trump the sheer amount of incredulous stuff is hard to take at face value.

Seafoid is particularly and regularly guilty of only producing articles that implicitly support his pre-existing viewpoint - ultimately that approach is exactly the same as the worst of Trump's supporters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2018, 06:27:54 PM
Yet neither the White House nor Bannon have yet cast doubt on the statements attributed to Bannon.

While the White House lawyers even sent Bannon, not Wolff, a cease and desist letter.

Some of it may turn out to be bullshit or exaggerated, of course, but it's funny to watch such odious and destructive figures turn their fire on each other.

Of course, meanwhile today, the appalling policies continue, with all coastal waters going to be opened up to drilling and Sessions going after marijuana states (so much for small government and states rights).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 07:17:34 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 06:13:09 PM
Most of ye dog-piling seem to have conveniently ignored Oraisteach's more nuanced reading of the author's motives. He's a known fabricator and embellisher - even for Trump the sheer amount of incredulous stuff is hard to take at face value.

Seafoid is particularly and regularly guilty of only producing articles that implicitly support his pre-existing viewpoint - ultimately that approach is exactly the same as the worst of Trump's supporters.

Trump is a piss take. Eveni if this book was a fraud it would change nothing 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/19/trump-infrastructure-charlottesville-neo-nazis-comments

National Economic Council director Gary Cohn and transportation secretary Elaine Chao stood impotent, the horror slowly dawning as Donald Trump sabotaged an event that was supposed to be all about rebuilding America.



Trump touts dream infrastructure plan – with really long charts

The official transcript of last Tuesday's presentation in the gilded lobby of Trump Tower in New York is still entitled"Remarks by President Trump on Infrastructure".But history will remember it rather differently: as the day Trump took on reporters in a verbal brawl, drew a moral equivalence between white supremacists and anti-Nazis and shredded his own pretensions to being a serious politician.

"If he'd just kept his mouth shut, which he couldn't do," mused Rich Galen, former press secretary to ex-vice-president Dan Quayle. "Maybe that becomes the metaphor for any legislative agenda: nothing comes before Trump and airing a grievance."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 04, 2018, 08:48:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 06:13:09 PM

......
Seafoid is particularly and regularly guilty of only producing articles that implicitly support his pre-existing viewpoint - ultimately that approach is exactly the same as the worst of Trump's supporters.
Yes indeed, just how disingenuous Seafold is to provide ("particularly and regularly") links  to articles that support his opinion, rather than links to articles that oppose his opinion. He's dangerous.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2018, 09:02:40 PM
I believe it's a variation on the old "go off and do some research" defence, the lazy debater's ploy where your opponent asks you to support his argument to save him the bother of doing his own work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 09:15:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2018, 08:48:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 06:13:09 PM

......
Seafoid is particularly and regularly guilty of only producing articles that implicitly support his pre-existing viewpoint - ultimately that approach is exactly the same as the worst of Trump's supporters.
Yes indeed, just how disingenuous Seafold is to provide ("particularly and regularly") links  to articles that support his opinion, rather than links to articles that oppose his opinion. He's dangerous.

..he links exclusively to leftist publications, unless the intent is to criticise. Some more suspect (the literally anti-capitalism newsletter from a few weeks ago) and some more respectable like the Guardian or the Atlantic. All sources were not created equally, and if people in this thread and the Palestinian one broadened their definition of an acceptable source they would befar better off in the long run.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on January 04, 2018, 09:57:52 PM
Ok all you GOP sympathisers. First paycheck is out today... what difference did it make to your pay????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on January 04, 2018, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 09:15:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2018, 08:48:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 06:13:09 PM

......
Seafoid is particularly and regularly guilty of only producing articles that implicitly support his pre-existing viewpoint - ultimately that approach is exactly the same as the worst of Trump's supporters.
Yes indeed, just how disingenuous Seafold is to provide ("particularly and regularly") links  to articles that support his opinion, rather than links to articles that oppose his opinion. He's dangerous.

..he links exclusively to leftist publications, unless the intent is to criticise. Some more suspect (the literally anti-capitalism newsletter from a few weeks ago) and some more respectable like the Guardian or the Atlantic. All sources were not created equally, and if people in this thread and the Palestinian one broadened their definition of an acceptable source they would befar better off in the long run.

If seafoid were a bot it wouldn't be a huge surprise.  No one could read the volume of stuff he produces.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 10:16:15 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 09:15:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2018, 08:48:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 06:13:09 PM

......
Seafoid is particularly and regularly guilty of only producing articles that implicitly support his pre-existing viewpoint - ultimately that approach is exactly the same as the worst of Trump's supporters.
Yes indeed, just how disingenuous Seafold is to provide ("particularly and regularly") links  to articles that support his opinion, rather than links to articles that oppose his opinion. He's dangerous.

..he links exclusively to leftist publications, unless the intent is to criticise. Some more suspect (the literally anti-capitalism newsletter from a few weeks ago) and some more respectable like the Guardian or the Atlantic. All sources were not created equally, and if people in this thread and the Palestinian one broadened their definition of an acceptable source they would befar better off in the long run.
The well known lefty rag the Financial Times. It comes with the farming independent just after the deaths.

https://www.ft.com/content/0a401588-b8d5-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852#comments

petergeorge42 14 hours ago Trump entities have filed for bankruptcy 6 times. He is on record for filing about 4,000 lawsuits. He may have borrowed enormous amounts in the past, but today no US bank will touch him. 

The neo communist NYT

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/business/trump-benefit-tax-cuts.html

President Trump likes to argue that the tax-reform legislation hurtling through Congress this week will protect low- and middle-income households, "not the wealthy and well connected." He puts himself forward as Exhibit A.

"This is going to cost me a fortune," he said on Wednesday in Missouri. "This is not good for me."

So surely at least a few of the most egregious loopholes that benefit Mr. Trump and real estate developers like him will be closed.

Not in the slightest.

In fact, the proposals seem almost tailor-made to enrich the president and people like him.

"Commercial real estate came out essentially unscathed," said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum, a conservative advocacy group. Real estate developers "didn't lose anything they care about," and they got even more breaks, like a shorter depreciation schedule in the Senate tax bill, Mr. Holtz-Eakin pointed out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 05, 2018, 12:38:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 04, 2018, 10:16:15 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 09:15:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2018, 08:48:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 04, 2018, 06:13:09 PM

......
Seafoid is particularly and regularly guilty of only producing articles that implicitly support his pre-existing viewpoint - ultimately that approach is exactly the same as the worst of Trump's supporters.
Yes indeed, just how disingenuous Seafold is to provide ("particularly and regularly") links  to articles that support his opinion, rather than links to articles that oppose his opinion. He's dangerous.

..he links exclusively to leftist publications, unless the intent is to criticise. Some more suspect (the literally anti-capitalism newsletter from a few weeks ago) and some more respectable like the Guardian or the Atlantic. All sources were not created equally, and if people in this thread and the Palestinian one broadened their definition of an acceptable source they would befar better off in the long run.
The well known lefty rag the Financial Times. It comes with the farming independent just after the deaths.

https://www.ft.com/content/0a401588-b8d5-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852#comments

petergeorge42 14 hours ago Trump entities have filed for bankruptcy 6 times. He is on record for filing about 4,000 lawsuits. He may have borrowed enormous amounts in the past, but today no US bank will touch him.

The neo communist NYT

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/business/trump-benefit-tax-cuts.html

President Trump likes to argue that the tax-reform legislation hurtling through Congress this week will protect low- and middle-income households, "not the wealthy and well connected." He puts himself forward as Exhibit A.

"This is going to cost me a fortune," he said on Wednesday in Missouri. "This is not good for me."

So surely at least a few of the most egregious loopholes that benefit Mr. Trump and real estate developers like him will be closed.

Not in the slightest.

In fact, the proposals seem almost tailor-made to enrich the president and people like him.

"Commercial real estate came out essentially unscathed," said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum, a conservative advocacy group. Real estate developers "didn't lose anything they care about," and they got even more breaks, like a shorter depreciation schedule in the Senate tax bill, Mr. Holtz-Eakin pointed out.
More commie propaganda (particularly and regularly) from Seafold.

Perhaps Sy could provide a list of acceptable and approved sources to support opinions offered in this thread? Tyrone Tribulations? The Ballymagash Echo?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 05, 2018, 01:39:19 AM
Wolff's book is good comedy. However short of evidence he may be. A bit like the X files, I want to believe, but I find that without evidence, it's just a story. One of many, admittedly, but still just a story...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2018, 02:43:22 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 05, 2018, 01:39:19 AM
Wolff's book is good comedy. However short of evidence he may be. A bit like the X files, I want to believe, but I find that without evidence, it's just a story. One of many, admittedly, but still just a story...
We have to wait for Mueller to see who flips.
Trump and Russia is senior hurling . Dumping Comey was the all Ireland fimal.

Bannon is a really interesting figure 
And Trump is straight outta Shakespeare 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2018, 07:06:25 AM
David Frum

@davidfrum

·

5h

PR people as yet unborn will tell future clients, "This is about the best publicity you can get, short of a cease and desist order from the president"

 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/news/michael-wolff-my-insane-year-inside-trumps-white-house-1071504

The West Wing is configured in such a way that the anteroom is quite a thoroughfare — everybody passes by. Assistants — young women in the Trump uniform of short skirts, high boots, long and loose hair

The nature of the comedy, it was soon clear, was that here was a group of ambitious men and women who had reached the pinnacle of power, a high-ranking White House appointment — with the punchline that Donald Trump was president. Their estimable accomplishment of getting to the West Wing risked at any moment becoming farce.

Kellyanne Conway, who would put a finger-gun to her head in private about Trump's public comments, continued to mount an implacable defense on cable television, until she was pulled off the air by others in the White House who, however much the president enjoyed her, found her militancy idiotic. 

Steve Bannon tried to gamely suggest that Trump was mere front man and that he, with plan and purpose and intellect, was, more reasonably, running the show — commanding a whiteboard of policies and initiatives that he claimed to have assembled from Trump's off-the-cuff ramblings and utterances.

Part of that foolishness was his inability to deal with his own family. In a way, this gave him a human dimension. Even Donald Trump couldn't say no to his kids. "It's a littleee, littleee complicated ..." he explained to Priebus about why he needed to give his daughter and son-in-law official jobs. But the effect of their leadership roles was to compound his own boundless inexperience in Washington, creating from the outset frustration and then disbelief and then rage on the part of the professionals in his employ.

To say that no one was in charge, that there were no guiding principles, not even a working org chart, would again be an understatement. "What do these people do?" asked everyone pretty much of everyone else

How to get along with Trump — who veered between a kind of blissed-out pleasure of being in the Oval Office and a deep, childish frustration that he couldn't have what he wanted? Here was a man singularly focused on his own needs for instant gratification, be that a hamburger, a segment on Fox & Friends or an Oval Office photo opp. "I want a win. I want a win. Where's my win?" he would regularly declaim. He was, in words used by almost every member of the senior staff on repeated occasions, "like a child." A chronic naysayer, Trump himself stoked constant discord with his daily after-dinner phone calls to his billionaire friends about the disloyalty and incompetence around him. His billionaire friends then shared this with their billionaire friends, creating the endless leaks which the president so furiously railed against.

There was, after the abrupt Scaramucci meltdown, hardly any effort inside the West Wing to disguise the sense of ludicrousness and anger felt by every member of the senior staff toward Trump's family and Trump himself. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 05, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 05, 2018, 01:39:19 AM
Wolff's book is good comedy. However short of evidence he may be. A bit like the X files, I want to believe, but I find that without evidence, it's just a story. One of many, admittedly, but still just a story...
Do you understand the term "evidence"?  Wolff's transcripts of  recorded  interviews are evidence,  using quotes from video and audio recorded interviews from other journalists are evidence. Analysis of evidence from different witnesses  over a period of time and of the timeline of recorded events,  is one method to  determine the quality and consistency of that evidence.

If you have an opinion that the book is a work of fiction then please inform more about this,
as this sentence doesn't quite cut the mustard "However short of evidence he may be."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 05, 2018, 10:24:32 AM
NYT article (http://"https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/us/politics/trump-sessions-russia-mcgahn.html")  on  documented events at the "Justice Department's investigation into whether Mr. Trump's associates had helped a Russian campaign to disrupt the 2016 election"

We read that Trump's own lawyers were aware of his compulsive stupidity and deliberately kept him misinformed about his executive power to dismiss FBI director Comey in order to reduce the chances that Trump would fire Comey and  harm his own defense.

(Trump's) lawyer , Uttam Dhillon, was convinced that if (FBI director) Mr. Comey was fired, the Trump presidency could be imperiled, because it would force the Justice Department to open an investigation into whether Mr. Trump was trying to derail the Russia investigation.

....Mr. Dhillon, who had earlier told Mr. Trump that he needed cause to fire Mr.Comey, never corrected the record, withholding the conclusions of his research (that there was nothing prohibiting the president from firing him)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2018, 10:35:43 AM
MSNBC backtracking on the book.....even if its not entirely true, the spirit of it is true-lol

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 05, 2018, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 10:35:43 AM
MSNBC backtracking on the book.....even if its not entirely true, the spirit of it is true-lol


These people are vile, evil bastards, as liberal as the media is in the states, and biased, msnbc is by far the worst, by far!

Eat crow f**kers!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on January 05, 2018, 01:13:21 PM
MSNBC are not backtracking on the book.On of there contributors is quoting a White House staffer as saying that even if the book is not entirely true the spirit of it is true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Longshanks on January 05, 2018, 01:18:02 PM
Stew ever want to calm down a little...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2018, 01:18:45 PM
Quote from: stew on January 05, 2018, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 10:35:43 AM
MSNBC backtracking on the book.....even if its not entirely true, the spirit of it is true-lol


These people are vile, evil b**tards, as liberal as the media is in the states, and biased, msnbc is by far the worst, by far!

Eat crow f**kers!

What are you boys on about? MSNBC didn't publish this.

Bannon and Breitbart are standing by what he is quoted as having said. Trump's lawyers are trying to gag everyone. While the chaotic administration has been plain to see from day one and isn't exactly news.

I'm sure there will be errors and people disputing their quotes, whether true or not, but that's always the way. And there obviously is some poetic license in the reconstruction of dialogue such as in the New York magazine piece. But Bannon, for one, is not disavowing those quotes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2018, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: maigheo on January 05, 2018, 01:13:21 PM
MSNBC are not backtracking on the book.On of there contributors is quoting a White House staffer as saying that even if the book is not entirely true the spirit of it is true.

So if a book came out containing untruths about Hillary, do you think the lame stream media would be lauding the spirit of the accusations?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 05, 2018, 01:26:37 PM
These boys spitting feathers about the book not being true lololololololol

Take a look at the first page FFS

(https://i.redd.it/lnlbxnevk2801.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 05, 2018, 01:33:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: maigheo on January 05, 2018, 01:13:21 PM
MSNBC are not backtracking on the book.On of there contributors is quoting a White House staffer as saying that even if the book is not entirely true the spirit of it is true.

So if a book came out containing untruths about Hillary, do you think the lame stream media would be lauding the spirit of the accusations?

There have been loads of untruths about Hillary. . . go back through Stew's posts!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 05, 2018, 01:35:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: maigheo on January 05, 2018, 01:13:21 PM
MSNBC are not backtracking on the book.On of there contributors is quoting a White House staffer as saying that even if the book is not entirely true the spirit of it is true.

So if a book came out containing untruths about Hillary, do you think the lame stream media would be lauding the spirit of the accusations?

Fox News sure seem to take Clinton Cash as gospel - like yourself and a few others on here  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2018, 01:48:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: maigheo on January 05, 2018, 01:13:21 PM
MSNBC are not backtracking on the book.On of there contributors is quoting a White House staffer as saying that even if the book is not entirely true the spirit of it is true.

So if a book came out containing untruths about Hillary, do you think the lame stream media would be lauding the spirit of the accusations?

Depends on the book I guess. If some senior advisor or Svengali contributed and stood by allegations like Bannon has, they would have little choice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 05, 2018, 02:23:04 PM
Fake news!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSxtj6SWkAAkopc?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2018, 02:32:04 PM
This is the USA that Eamon and J70 are cheerleading.
A call to discriminate and punish white people in the future justice for the past. "There has to be a correction"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh6CheWW_Wk

24 minutes in.

Once these "corrections" start to happen it will spread elsewhere. If you thought the purges in South Africa were a one-off you're very mistaken.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 05, 2018, 02:41:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2018, 02:32:04 PM
This is the USA that Eamon and J70 are cheerleading.
A call to discriminate and punish white people in the future justice for the past. "There has to be a correction"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh6CheWW_Wk

24 minutes in.

Once these "corrections" start to happen it will spread elsewhere. If you thought the purges in South Africa were a one-off you're very mistaken.

I'm literally wiping the tears away from my eyes here, Fox. Hilarious. Please don't ever dare call anyone from the left a snowflake again. I'd say you are prospering in the current icy conditions...Tucker Carlson!! And white genocide conspiracies!!! Affirmative action as racism!! Purges!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Poor pyjama boy....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2018, 02:57:06 PM
This is foxcommmander you're talking to. If some black person said or did something somewhere, he can be counted on to dash in here to tell us all about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2018, 02:59:26 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/05/michael-wolff-trump-steve-bannon-book-fire-and-fury

Wolff added: "I will tell you the one description that everyone gave, everyone has in common. They all say, 'He is like a child,' and what they mean by that is he has a need for immediate gratification. It's all about him. He just has to be satisfied in the moment.

"They say he's a moron, an idiot. Actually, there's a competition to sort of get to the bottom line here of who this man is. Let's remember, this man does not read, does not listen, so he's like a pinball just shooting off the sides."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2018, 03:11:56 PM
And Hillary still couldn't beat him.....show what happens when you rig your own primary and then have the lame stream media pump up the oppositions clown candidates (because they are the only ones you can beat)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 05, 2018, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 03:11:56 PM
And Hillary still couldn't beat him.....show what happens when you rig your own primary and then have the lame stream media pump up the oppositions clown candidates (because they are the only ones you can beat)

This is the thought that echoed round my head as I read the extracts from the Wolff book.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2018, 03:16:04 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 05, 2018, 01:35:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: maigheo on January 05, 2018, 01:13:21 PM
MSNBC are not backtracking on the book.On of there contributors is quoting a White House staffer as saying that even if the book is not entirely true the spirit of it is true.

So if a book came out containing untruths about Hillary, do you think the lame stream media would be lauding the spirit of the accusations?

Fox News sure seem to take Clinton Cash as gospel - like yourself and a few others on here  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Ehhh.....I haven't watched or listened to Fox News in years. MSNBC and the WSJ are my main sources of information
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2018, 03:20:30 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 05, 2018, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 03:11:56 PM
And Hillary still couldn't beat him.....show what happens when you rig your own primary and then have the lame stream media pump up the oppositions clown candidates (because they are the only ones you can beat)

This is the thought that echoed round my head as I read the extracts from the Wolff book.

You only had to listen to Trump for about 20 seconds to realize he was a complete fvckin moron. He has probably never read a book in his adult life, not dissimilar to W.

I protest voted for Jill Stein as there was no way I could vote for Hillary or Trump (I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't really count). A lot of people in Ireland don't realize that for many in the he States voting for Hillary would be like voting for Charlie Haughey or Bertie Ahern.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 05, 2018, 03:27:10 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 05, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 05, 2018, 01:39:19 AM
Wolff's book is good comedy. However short of evidence he may be. A bit like the X files, I want to believe, but I find that without evidence, it's just a story. One of many, admittedly, but still just a story...
Do you understand the term "evidence"?  Wolff's transcripts of  recorded  interviews are evidence,  using quotes from video and audio recorded interviews from other journalists are evidence. Analysis of evidence from different witnesses  over a period of time and of the timeline of recorded events,  is one method to  determine the quality and consistency of that evidence.

If you have an opinion that the book is a work of fiction then please inform more about this,
as this sentence doesn't quite cut the mustard "However short of evidence he may be."

Main Street, the book and the sources have been alluded to but not shared. At the time of booking of these posts the book itself hadn't even been published. I think you'll find my use of the conditional "he may be" to be entirely grammatically correct, and also the paragraphs conditional dependent clause "without evidence" to be also correct.

So while I enjoy your posts, and your positions, you'll forgive my response to "do you understand the word evidence" being "do you really understand English?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 05, 2018, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 03:20:30 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 05, 2018, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 03:11:56 PM
And Hillary still couldn't beat him.....show what happens when you rig your own primary and then have the lame stream media pump up the oppositions clown candidates (because they are the only ones you can beat)

This is the thought that echoed round my head as I read the extracts from the Wolff book.

You only had to listen to Trump for about 20 seconds to realize he was a complete fvckin moron. He has probably never read a book in his adult life, not dissimilar to W.

I protest voted for Jill Stein as there was no way I could vote for Hillary or Trump (I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't really count). A lot of people in Ireland don't realize that for many in the he States voting for Hillary would be like voting for Charlie Haughey or Bertie Ahern.

I think the stronger reason to consider voting third party (at least if one is in a non-competitive state) is to try to get some third party  5% of the vote, and thus be eligible for federal funding for future elections, giving them some chance to build a real third party.  Longshot, of course, but there are limited options.

"Indeed 5 percent is the milestone set by the Federal Election Commission to be eligible for the Presidential Election Campaign Fund's grant. The amount of public funding available to the minor party candidate is based on the the ratio of the party's popular vote in the preceding presidential election to the average popular vote of the two major party candidates in that election.

If the libertarian candidate in the 2008 election had received 5 percent of the vote, Gary Johnson would have received approximately $9.5 million from the Presidential Election Campaign Fund. As of today, Governor Johnson has raised $2.3 million for his campaign, more than three times less than what he would have started with. If he had the additional grant money, he could have been on the ballot in every state, and would have been able to pursue a larger scale campaign."

https://ivn.us/2012/11/01/why-5-matters-to-gary-johnson/ (https://ivn.us/2012/11/01/why-5-matters-to-gary-johnson/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2018, 03:44:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 03:20:30 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 05, 2018, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 03:11:56 PM
And Hillary still couldn't beat him.....show what happens when you rig your own primary and then have the lame stream media pump up the oppositions clown candidates (because they are the only ones you can beat)

This is the thought that echoed round my head as I read the extracts from the Wolff book.

You only had to listen to Trump for about 20 seconds to realize he was a complete fvckin moron. He has probably never read a book in his adult life, not dissimilar to W.

I protest voted for Jill Stein as there was no way I could vote for Hillary or Trump (I don't live in a swing state so my vote doesn't really count). A lot of people in Ireland don't realize that for many in the he States voting for Hillary would be like voting for Charlie Haughey or Bertie Ahern.

I don't think W, bad as he was, was anywhere near the ignorant clown that Trump is. I found much of his politics and rhetoric highly objectionable, but he was still within the norms of a fairly standard GOP politician, even if not exactly brilliant in terms of IQ. Any number of GOP candidates last time out would have not been out of step with what Bush brought to the table.

Trump is unprecedented in his self-delusion and self-unawareness and dangerous, clueless, arrogance and, hopefully, a once off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2018, 04:28:46 PM
Bush was wrong within the normal parameters of wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htRa33Zy4vM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2018, 04:55:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 05, 2018, 04:28:46 PM
Bush was wrong within the normal parameters of wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htRa33Zy4vM

Succinctly put!

I like PJ O'Rourke. Very funny man!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2018, 10:03:11 PM
@AmarAmarasingam


Pretty convincing evidence here that Trump is simply live-tweeting Fox News a lot of the time. "He is not trying to distract the media. He is being distracted." (link: http://politi.co/2Av9v0f) politi.co/2Av9v0f
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2018, 10:18:35 PM
This is very good. Over to foxy

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/view/articles/2018-01-04/bannon-s-treason-charge-is-milder-than-money-laundering?
The Trump family has had longstanding real estate and licensing dealings with questionable business associates, some of them Russian and some of them not, as I and reporters like the late Wayne Barrett have written about for years. The family's recent departure from its ill-fated Trump SoHo hotel project, and its partnership with career criminals like Felix Sater, are reminders of how problematic some of those deals will be in the context of Mueller's investigation.

While Trump allies have recently targeted Mueller's probe as ill-founded, tainted with prosecutorial bias, and the work of a conspiracy orchestrated with Democratic partisans and the "deep state," the reality is that Mueller — a well-regarded, veteran prosecutor — has been running a by-the-books investigation.

It's an investigation that is likely to continue examining matters beyond political collusion — which Mueller's original mandate allows for — and will continue to involve explorations of financial dealings by the Trump family and members of the Trump campaign (particularly those involving Russia).

Bannon knows this, and his comments to Wolff show that he knows how devastating all of it could be to Trump and his children.

The speed and intemperance of Trump's counterpunches suggest that the president probably feels himself at risk, too. There were many reasons Trump may have had for lashing out, of course. Bannon painted him as someone surrounded by ignorant, scheming relatives, lacking any interest in governing, pursuing the presidency as a marketing lark, and an empty vessel that others could fill with their own ideas — in other words, exactly the guy who's been occupying the Oval Office for the last year.

Bannon's (and Wolff's) stuff was so compelling that it became a thing on social media on Wednesday, drowning out much of the chatter Trump sparked the night before when he tweeted that his nuclear arsenal was "bigger & more powerful" than North Korea's.

It never takes long for the president to lash back when someone makes the mistake of criticizing him, belittling the First Family or usurping the spotlight. Bannon hit the trifecta and did all three.

Bannon knows that Donald Jr. and Kushner are potential liabilities for the president, especially in the context of a sophisticated money-laundering probe. And he also knows how ill-equipped the White House is to contend with the legal hurdles and financial inquiries that lie ahead of it. He knows all of this, even if he has lost his mind. That's why the president wants to shut him up and shut him down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2018, 10:57:33 PM
I'm all for the Russia probe.....let Mueller also look at Russian funding of the Clinton Foundation.

After all he's investigating Russian interference in the election, not just Trumps ties to Russia

I would also be very interested in the warrants that led to the wiretapping of the Trump campaign and transition team. If the now discredited Fusion GPS Memo is even referenced in the warrant all he'll is going to break loose.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2018, 01:11:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 10:57:33 PM
I'm all for the Russia probe.....let Mueller also look at Russian funding of the Clinton Foundation.

After all he's investigating Russian interference in the election, not just Trumps ties to Russia

I would also be very interested in the warrants that led to the wiretapping of the Trump campaign and transition team. If the now discredited Fusion GPS Memo is even referenced in the warrant all he'll is going to break loose.

Discredited by who? Fusion GPS are calling for Congress to release ALL of the transcripts from their testimony, not just the favourable-to-Trump drips.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2018, 01:35:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2018, 01:11:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 10:57:33 PM
I'm all for the Russia probe.....let Mueller also look at Russian funding of the Clinton Foundation.

After all he's investigating Russian interference in the election, not just Trumps ties to Russia

I would also be very interested in the warrants that led to the wiretapping of the Trump campaign and transition team. If the now discredited Fusion GPS Memo is even referenced in the warrant all he'll is going to break loose.

Discredited by who? Fusion GPS are calling for Congress to release ALL of the transcripts from their testimony, not just the favourable-to-Trump drips.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html)



Believe what you want

Why are GPS Fusio resisting the financial disclosures if there's nothing to hide?

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/house/367525-judge-allows-house-intel-panel-to-subpoena-fusion-gpss-financial-records%3famp

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2018, 01:44:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 01:35:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2018, 01:11:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 10:57:33 PM
I'm all for the Russia probe.....let Mueller also look at Russian funding of the Clinton Foundation.

After all he's investigating Russian interference in the election, not just Trumps ties to Russia

I would also be very interested in the warrants that led to the wiretapping of the Trump campaign and transition team. If the now discredited Fusion GPS Memo is even referenced in the warrant all he'll is going to break loose.

Discredited by who? Fusion GPS are calling for Congress to release ALL of the transcripts from their testimony, not just the favourable-to-Trump drips.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html)



Believe what you want

Why are GPS Fusio resisting the financial disclosures if there's nothing to hide?

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/house/367525-judge-allows-house-intel-panel-to-subpoena-fusion-gpss-financial-records%3famp

I have no real opinion either way. You are the one making definitive comments. I'm merely linking to their piece this week in the Times where they claim the leaks from Congress do not reflect the record of what took place during their testimony. Why not publish it all as they suggest? And in addition to looking into the Fusion financials, why would Congress not look into the financial details of Trump and his connections as they suggested instead of ignoring them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2018, 01:57:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2018, 01:44:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 01:35:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2018, 01:11:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 10:57:33 PM
I'm all for the Russia probe.....let Mueller also look at Russian funding of the Clinton Foundation.

After all he's investigating Russian interference in the election, not just Trumps ties to Russia

I would also be very interested in the warrants that led to the wiretapping of the Trump campaign and transition team. If the now discredited Fusion GPS Memo is even referenced in the warrant all he'll is going to break loose.

Discredited by who? Fusion GPS are calling for Congress to release ALL of the transcripts from their testimony, not just the favourable-to-Trump drips.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html)



Believe what you want

Why are GPS Fusio resisting the financial disclosures if there's nothing to hide?

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/house/367525-judge-allows-house-intel-panel-to-subpoena-fusion-gpss-financial-records%3famp

I have no real opinion either way. You are the one making definitive comments. I'm merely linking to their piece this week in the Times where they claim the leaks from Congress do not reflect the record of what took place during their testimony. Why not publish it all as they suggest? And in addition to looking into the Fusion financials, why would Congress not look into the financial details of Trump and his connections as they suggested instead of ignoring them?

Let's get it all out

From my standpoint this has all the marks of a Clinton dirty trick...leak false opposition research to the DOJ and FBI in an effort to discredit an opponent (who was already doing a spectacular job doing that himself). Trump should be fvcked out in his head, but let's get it all out there. Let's find out who, if anyone in the FBI and DOJ were working the the Clinton campaign and fvck them in jail too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2018, 01:59:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 01:57:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2018, 01:44:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 01:35:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2018, 01:11:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2018, 10:57:33 PM
I'm all for the Russia probe.....let Mueller also look at Russian funding of the Clinton Foundation.

After all he's investigating Russian interference in the election, not just Trumps ties to Russia

I would also be very interested in the warrants that led to the wiretapping of the Trump campaign and transition team. If the now discredited Fusion GPS Memo is even referenced in the warrant all he'll is going to break loose.

Discredited by who? Fusion GPS are calling for Congress to release ALL of the transcripts from their testimony, not just the favourable-to-Trump drips.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html)



Believe what you want

Why are GPS Fusio resisting the financial disclosures if there's nothing to hide?

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/house/367525-judge-allows-house-intel-panel-to-subpoena-fusion-gpss-financial-records%3famp

I have no real opinion either way. You are the one making definitive comments. I'm merely linking to their piece this week in the Times where they claim the leaks from Congress do not reflect the record of what took place during their testimony. Why not publish it all as they suggest? And in addition to looking into the Fusion financials, why would Congress not look into the financial details of Trump and his connections as they suggested instead of ignoring them?

Let's get it all out

From my standpoint this has all the marks of a Clinton dirty trick...leak false opposition research to the DOJ and FBI in an effort to discredit an opponent (who was already doing a spectacular job doing that himself). Trump should be fvcked out in his head, but let's get it all out there. Let's find out who, if anyone in the FBI and DOJ were working the the Clinton campaign and fvck them in jail too.

Agreed. Let the chips fall where they may.

Let's hope the GOP allow an honest investigation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2018, 02:39:45 AM
If they try and obstruct Mueller, I think it will end very badly for them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:13:54 AM
Whitey,
Let's separate the issues, they are not related.

Clinton foundation, investigate away, not Mueller though separate investigation.

2 questions:
1 why the interests in the warrant?
2 fusion GPS is certainly not discredited- why do you say that?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2018, 03:52:22 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:13:54 AM
Whitey,
Let's separate the issues, they are not related.

Clinton foundation, investigate away, not Mueller though separate investigation.

2 questions:
1 why the interests in the warrant?
2 fusion GPS is certainly not discredited- why do you say that?

Mueller is tasked with investigating Russian tampering in the 2016 election.  Would making payments to the Clinton Foundation to curry favor with an incoming administration not be a form of tampering? It would be in my book!

Put the shoe on the other foot......a Republican presidential campaign secretly funds dossier on Hillary which is the basis for the current Republican administration wiretapping both the Hillary campaign and transition team (assuming she won). If, and it's a big if, that's true then Watergate gets relegated to the hapenny place in my opinion.

If you believe the dossier is completely or mainly true that's up to you, but there's enough credible sources that debunk the main thrust of it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/01/13/the-trump-dossier-is-false-news-and-heres-why/amp/

Even Comey testified under oath that it was nonsense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 04:21:05 AM
The case for fusion GPS not being discredited:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.amp.html

Quote."Instead of focusing its efforts on Russian meddling in the presidential election, the committee is misusing its investigatory powers to punish and smear Fusion GPS for its role in examining ties between Mr. Trump and Russia," Boutrous said. "The committee is violating Fusion's First Amendment and due process rights and we intend to continue seeking to protect those rights."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2018, 05:59:28 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/05/michael-wolff-trump-steve-bannon-book-fire-and-fury

Wolff added: "I will tell you the one description that everyone gave, everyone has in common. They all say, 'He is like a child,' and what they mean by that is he has a need for immediate gratification. It's all about him. He just has to be satisfied in the moment.

"They say he's a moron, an idiot. Actually, there's a competition to sort of get to the bottom line here of who this man is. Let's remember, this man does not read, does not listen, so he's like a pinball just shooting off the sides."

PJ O Rourke said the same thing in 2016

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htRa33Zy4vM

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2018, 07:40:28 AM
One for Syf from the ultra socialist Daily Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/01/05/another-reckless-asset-bubble-will-destroy-capitalist-system/

A cynic might say that when the last sane man bows to the Zeitgeist and succumbs to speculative mania, it marks the absolute top of the bull market.  

GMO's Jeremy Grantham, the apostle of 'value investing', fears we are heading into one of the great asset bubbles of all time: a 50pc parabolic "near-term melt-up" on Wall Street, followed by an epic crash. If he is right, we face a wicked political denouement.   

He sketches a chain of events that would in my view threaten the destruction of market liberalism, or what Marxists might call it the "final crisis of capitalism". 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 06, 2018, 11:13:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2018, 05:59:28 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/05/michael-wolff-trump-steve-bannon-book-fire-and-fury

Wolff added: "I will tell you the one description that everyone gave, everyone has in common. They all say, 'He is like a child,' and what they mean by that is he has a need for immediate gratification. It's all about him. He just has to be satisfied in the moment.

"They say he's a moron, an idiot. Actually, there's a competition to sort of get to the bottom line here of who this man is. Let's remember, this man does not read, does not listen, so he's like a pinball just shooting off the sides."

PJ O Rourke said the same thing in 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htRa33Zy4vM
Then Trump calls Wolff  "a loser", he's still in the playground throwing stones.
The thing is, it's not just that he's like a child, he's more an oafish teenager called Biff.
He walks and talks like a Biff, he thinks and acts out like a Biff. He's a Biff for the ages.
What an imbecile!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2018, 12:07:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 04:21:05 AM
The case for fusion GPS not being discredited:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.amp.html

Quote."Instead of focusing its efforts on Russian meddling in the presidential election, the committee is misusing its investigatory powers to punish and smear Fusion GPS for its role in examining ties between Mr. Trump and Russia," Boutrous said. "The committee is violating Fusion's First Amendment and due process rights and we intend to continue seeking to protect those rights."

Well they shouldn't be worried about releasing their financials if that's the case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Non sequitur.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2018, 03:34:13 PM
Trump obviously was stung by all of the talk about him having lost it
Jaysus Chrisht

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/06/donald-trump-tweets-mental-stability-fire-and-fury-michael-wolff

In an extraordinary and unprecedented public defence of his own mental stability, Donald Trump has issued a volley of tweets that seemed guaranteed to add fuel to a growing constitutional crisis. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Non sequitur.

Time will tell.

From what I've read and heard there's some likelihood that either the FBI or DOJ (or both) were involved in colluding with the Clinton campaign to smear Trump. FFS the spouse of a senior DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS and himself met with the Fusion guys both before and after the election (without disclosing the meetings).  Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Republicans who did this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2018, 04:42:06 PM
Good man whitey - keep up the good work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 05:58:41 PM
Stable genius? Horse, donkey or Ass?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 06, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Non sequitur.

Time will tell.

From what I've read and heard there's some likelihood that either the FBI or DOJ (or both) were involved in colluding with the Clinton campaign to smear Trump. FFS the spouse of a senior DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS and himself met with the Fusion guys both before and after the election (without disclosing the meetings).  Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Republicans who did this?
if trump was shocked and his wife crying when it looked like he could win and didn't want too as stated earlier in this thread why would he be colluding with the Russians to win ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2018, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 06, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Non sequitur.

Time will tell.

From what I've read and heard there's some likelihood that either the FBI or DOJ (or both) were involved in colluding with the Clinton campaign to smear Trump. FFS the spouse of a senior DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS and himself met with the Fusion guys both before and after the election (without disclosing the meetings).  Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Republicans who did this?
if trump was shocked and his wife crying when it looked like he could win and didn't want too as stated earlier in this thread why would he be colluding with the Russians to win ?

For the sake of argument, he could easily collude yet be convinced he couldn't win.

Wanting to win and thinking he would lose are not mutually exclusive mindsets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2018, 06:52:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 06, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Non sequitur.

Time will tell.

From what I've read and heard there's some likelihood that either the FBI or DOJ (or both) were involved in colluding with the Clinton campaign to smear Trump. FFS the spouse of a senior DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS and himself met with the Fusion guys both before and after the election (without disclosing the meetings).  Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Republicans who did this?
if trump was shocked and his wife crying when it looked like he could win and didn't want too as stated earlier in this thread why would he be colluding with the Russians to win ?

Good man Piers!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 06, 2018, 07:36:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2018, 06:52:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 06, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Non sequitur.

Time will tell.

From what I've read and heard there's some likelihood that either the FBI or DOJ (or both) were involved in colluding with the Clinton campaign to smear Trump. FFS the spouse of a senior DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS and himself met with the Fusion guys both before and after the election (without disclosing the meetings).  Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Republicans who did this?
if trump was shocked and his wife crying when it looked like he could win and didn't want too as stated earlier in this thread why would he be colluding with the Russians to win ?

Good man Piers!!!
is it a legitimate point or not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 06, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Non sequitur.

Time will tell.

From what I've read and heard there's some likelihood that either the FBI or DOJ (or both) were involved in colluding with the Clinton campaign to smear Trump. FFS the spouse of a senior DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS and himself met with the Fusion guys both before and after the election (without disclosing the meetings).  Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Republicans who did this?
if trump was shocked and his wife crying when it looked like he could win and didn't want too as stated earlier in this thread why would he be colluding with the Russians to win ?

He may have been looking for ways to undermine Hillary after she won, just like she he Democrats are now doing to him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2018, 08:02:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 06, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Non sequitur.

Time will tell.

From what I've read and heard there's some likelihood that either the FBI or DOJ (or both) were involved in colluding with the Clinton campaign to smear Trump. FFS the spouse of a senior DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS and himself met with the Fusion guys both before and after the election (without disclosing the meetings).  Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Republicans who did this?
if trump was shocked and his wife crying when it looked like he could win and didn't want too as stated earlier in this thread why would he be colluding with the Russians to win ?

He may have been looking for ways to undermine Hillary after she won, just like she he Democrats are now doing to him

Or the GOP with Obama and Clinton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2018, 08:14:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2018, 08:02:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 06, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 06, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Non sequitur.

Time will tell.

From what I've read and heard there's some likelihood that either the FBI or DOJ (or both) were involved in colluding with the Clinton campaign to smear Trump. FFS the spouse of a senior DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS and himself met with the Fusion guys both before and after the election (without disclosing the meetings).  Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Republicans who did this?
if trump was shocked and his wife crying when it looked like he could win and didn't want too as stated earlier in this thread why would he be colluding with the Russians to win ?

He may have been looking for ways to undermine Hillary after she won, just like she he Democrats are now doing to him

Or the GOP with Obama and Clinton.

Suppose so.

That seems to be the new trend....you did however leave out the Democrats undermining GW Bush. Just heard a Democra say last week that he was the only President elected by the Supreme Court
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on January 06, 2018, 08:30:07 PM
Why is financial incentives/bribes in relation to his business dealings not being considered as a possible reason?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2018, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 06, 2018, 08:30:07 PM
Why is financial incentives/bribes in relation to his business dealings not being considered as a possible reason?

Because Fox News haven't covered that yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2018, 11:15:04 PM
Nothing is more American than mass shootings and the NRA

https://mobile.twitter.com/NRATV/status/949436273957072896/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2018, 11:29:07 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/549875/

Trump may imagine that he's Michael Corleone, the tough and canny rightful heir—or even Sonny Corleone, the terrifyingly violent but at least powerful heir apparent—but after today he is Fredo forever.

There's a key difference between film and reality, though: The Corleone family had the awareness and vigilance to exclude Fredo from power. The American political system did not do so well.

Michael Wolff's scathing new book about the Trump White House has sent President Trump spiraling into the most publicly visible meltdown of his presidency. Until now, Trump's worst moments have occurred behind closed doors, and have become known to the public only second-hand, leaked by worried officials, aides, and advisers. Yesterday and today, we have seen a Trump temper-tantrum in real time on Twitter, extended over hours, punctuated only by stretch of fitful presidential sleep. Trump's tweets yesterday focused largely on the blockbuster Wolff book, "Fire and Fury."

 https://youtu.be/5Weaop_aiTg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2018, 11:51:44 PM
My guess is that he's balls deep in laundering money for the Russians, but I have a hard time buying the whole collusion theory....these fvckin guys are one step up from the three stooges.....I think they're not smart enough to collude even if they tried

The Democrats have lost the white working and middle class vote and instead of admitting it and doing something to correct course (which would piss off the progressive wing) they need to come up with some other excuse for losing that doesn't involve them or their incompetence.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 12:00:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2018, 11:51:44 PM
My guess is that he's balls deep in laundering money for the Russians, but I have a hard time buying the whole collusion theory....these fvckin guys are one step up from the three stooges.....I think they're not smart enough to collude even if they tried

The Democrats have lost the white working and middle class vote and instead of admitting it and doing something to correct course (which would piss off the progressive wing) they need to come up with some other excuse for losing that doesn't involve them or their incompetence.

Jaysus Whitey

The line about the dems losing the working class vote dates from before Trump's tax cut for the 0.1% which the GOP will fund with social welfare cuts to programmes used by the schmucks who voted for Trump. The GOP is a billionaire play.

https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:00:18 AM
Not at all

I don't know if you live here or not, but (imho) the Dems have become the party of the non working class. They've become the party of the gender confused. They've. Become the party of the easily offended They've become the party of abortion up to and including the Day of birth. They've become the party of the criminal over the cop (I'm kinda exxagerating, but I think you get the point)

In the lead up to the election many on here laughed at me when I said Trump had a chance. I was on the road super early (4:00 AM) 5/6 times in a the 2 weeks leading up to the election. The Union, F150 driving guys you see on the road at that hour had Trump over Hillary stickers by a margin of 3:1.

As Bill Clinton said of Obamacare......it's the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week.....their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.  They're the people the Democratic Party has forgotten

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 06:04:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:00:18 AM
Not at all

I don't know if you live here or not, but (imho) the Dems have become the party of the non working class. They've become the party of the gender confused. They've. Become the party of the easily offended They've become the party of abortion up to and including the Day of birth. They've become the party of the criminal over the cop (I'm kinda exxagerating, but I think you get the point)

In the lead up to the election many on here laughed at me when I said Trump had a chance. I was on the road super early (4:00 AM) 5/6 times in a the 2 weeks leading up to the election. The Union, F150 driving guys you see on the road at that hour had Trump over Hillary stickers by a margin of 3:1.

As Bill Clinton said of Obamacare......it's the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week.....their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.  They're the people the Democratic Party has forgotten
A lot of ordinary people voted for Trump in good faith. They thought he would help them. For a new government controlled by you.

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

Trump was bankrolled by the Mercers

The Mercers didn't spend all that money to help people in Indiana. Would you shtop. That is not how it works.
As Mitch MC Connell said early on "we can get him to sign anything "

Clinton would also have been corrupt but she wouldn't have introduced a $1.5 tn tax cut for plutocrats  paid for by gutting the programs that people in Louisiana depend on to get by.

It is hard to see the GOP surviving the latest  betrayal of the US working class.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 07, 2018, 10:55:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 06:04:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:00:18 AM
Not at all

I don't know if you live here or not, but (imho) the Dems have become the party of the non working class. They've become the party of the gender confused. They've. Become the party of the easily offended They've become the party of abortion up to and including the Day of birth. They've become the party of the criminal over the cop (I'm kinda exxagerating, but I think you get the point)

In the lead up to the election many on here laughed at me when I said Trump had a chance. I was on the road super early (4:00 AM) 5/6 times in a the 2 weeks leading up to the election. The Union, F150 driving guys you see on the road at that hour had Trump over Hillary stickers by a margin of 3:1.

As Bill Clinton said of Obamacare......it's the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week.....their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.  They're the people the Democratic Party has forgotten
A lot of ordinary people voted for Trump in good faith. They thought he would help them. For a new government controlled by you.

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

Trump was bankrolled by the Mercers

The Mercers didn't spend all that money to help people in Indiana. Would you shtop. That is not how it works.
As Mitch MC Connell said early on "we can get him to sign anything "

Clinton would also have been corrupt but she wouldn't have introduced a $1.5 tn tax cut for plutocrats  paid for by gutting the programs that people in Louisiana depend on to get by.

It is hard to see the GOP surviving the latest  betrayal of the US working class.


Shut up! The democrats have betrayed the working class for decades.

Obamacare forced people in some states to have the flu shot, take it or be fired, bioth main parties are in bed with big pharma, the republicans are in bed with the NRA and both are puppets of wall st, both parties are bought and paid for and Clinton is one of if not the most corrupt politician in American history, you lot had her as your choice and hardly said a word when Bernie got fucked and now suddenly everything is Trumps fault? Really?

I love it that the Trump bashing continues unabated, it is wonderful, it means that the liberals will screw themselves in the upcoming elections, 95% of people who voted for Trump said they would vote for him again in a recent poll, probably because the left offers absolutely nada!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: stew on January 07, 2018, 10:55:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 06:04:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:00:18 AM
Not at all

I don't know if you live here or not, but (imho) the Dems have become the party of the non working class. They've become the party of the gender confused. They've. Become the party of the easily offended They've become the party of abortion up to and including the Day of birth. They've become the party of the criminal over the cop (I'm kinda exxagerating, but I think you get the point)

In the lead up to the election many on here laughed at me when I said Trump had a chance. I was on the road super early (4:00 AM) 5/6 times in a the 2 weeks leading up to the election. The Union, F150 driving guys you see on the road at that hour had Trump over Hillary stickers by a margin of 3:1.

As Bill Clinton said of Obamacare......it's the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week.....their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.  They're the people the Democratic Party has forgotten
A lot of ordinary people voted for Trump in good faith. They thought he would help them. For a new government controlled by you.

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

Trump was bankrolled by the Mercers

The Mercers didn't spend all that money to help people in Indiana. Would you shtop. That is not how it works.
As Mitch MC Connell said early on "we can get him to sign anything "

Clinton would also have been corrupt but she wouldn't have introduced a $1.5 tn tax cut for plutocrats  paid for by gutting the programs that people in Louisiana depend on to get by.

It is hard to see the GOP surviving the latest  betrayal of the US working class.


Shut up! The democrats have betrayed the working class for decades.

Obamacare forced people in some states to have the flu shot, take it or be fired, bioth main parties are in bed with big pharma, the republicans are in bed with the NRA and both are puppets of wall st, both parties are bought and paid for and Clinton is one of if not the most corrupt politician in American history, you lot had her as your choice and hardly said a word when Bernie got fucked and now suddenly everything is Trumps fault? Really?

I love it that the Trump bashing continues unabated, it is wonderful, it means that the liberals will screw themselves in the upcoming elections, 95% of people who voted for Trump said they would vote for him again in a recent poll, probably because the left offers absolutely nada!

If you were on the ball Stew Alabama would have chosen Moore. Enough people have figured out Trump is a fraud 

The rest tune in to the gorilla channel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
1. Bernie didn't get fucked.
2. If the Dems have been screwing the working class, where does that leave the GOP? They're certainly not for them. Tax breaks for the rich, a weaker social safety net, and weakening worker, consumer and environmental protections are their raison d'etre. Although I'll admit that he GOP does a fine job of appealing to a certain section of the US working class by scapegoating gays and illegal immigrants and so on to distract them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2018, 12:03:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: stew on January 07, 2018, 10:55:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 06:04:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:00:18 AM
Not at all

I don't know if you live here or not, but (imho) the Dems have become the party of the non working class. They've become the party of the gender confused. They've. Become the party of the easily offended They've become the party of abortion up to and including the Day of birth. They've become the party of the criminal over the cop (I'm kinda exxagerating, but I think you get the point)

In the lead up to the election many on here laughed at me when I said Trump had a chance. I was on the road super early (4:00 AM) 5/6 times in a the 2 weeks leading up to the election. The Union, F150 driving guys you see on the road at that hour had Trump over Hillary stickers by a margin of 3:1.

As Bill Clinton said of Obamacare......it's the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week.....their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.  They're the people the Democratic Party has forgotten
A lot of ordinary people voted for Trump in good faith. They thought he would help them. For a new government controlled by you.

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

Trump was bankrolled by the Mercers

The Mercers didn't spend all that money to help people in Indiana. Would you shtop. That is not how it works.
As Mitch MC Connell said early on "we can get him to sign anything "

Clinton would also have been corrupt but she wouldn't have introduced a $1.5 tn tax cut for plutocrats  paid for by gutting the programs that people in Louisiana depend on to get by.

It is hard to see the GOP surviving the latest  betrayal of the US working class.


Shut up! The democrats have betrayed the working class for decades.

Obamacare forced people in some states to have the flu shot, take it or be fired, bioth main parties are in bed with big pharma, the republicans are in bed with the NRA and both are puppets of wall st, both parties are bought and paid for and Clinton is one of if not the most corrupt politician in American history, you lot had her as your choice and hardly said a word when Bernie got fucked and now suddenly everything is Trumps fault? Really?

I love it that the Trump bashing continues unabated, it is wonderful, it means that the liberals will screw themselves in the upcoming elections, 95% of people who voted for Trump said they would vote for him again in a recent poll, probably because the left offers absolutely nada!

If you were on the ball Stew Alabama would have chosen Moore. Enough people have figured out Trump is a fraud 

The rest tune in to the gorilla channel.

Moore....who was already very unpopular in Alabama.....and now an alleged peado, lost by 1.5 points

If you think this is evidence of some tidal wave of support for the Democrats, please keep thinking that.

What will the Democrats bring to the table in 2018. If they're not careful they'll fvck this up spectacularly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
1. Bernie didn't get fucked.
2. If the Dems have been screwing the working class, where does that leave the GOP? They're certainly not for them. Tax breaks for the rich, a weaker social safety net, and weakening worker, consumer and environmental protections are their raison d'etre. Although I'll admit that he GOP does a fine job of appealing to a certain section of the US working class by scapegoating gays and illegal immigrants and so on to distract them.

Rigged primary, rigged debates, rigged media......hahahaha

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

Bernie got shafted spectacularly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 12:51:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 12:03:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: stew on January 07, 2018, 10:55:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 06:04:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:00:18 AM
Not at all

I don't know if you live here or not, but (imho) the Dems have become the party of the non working class. They've become the party of the gender confused. They've. Become the party of the easily offended They've become the party of abortion up to and including the Day of birth. They've become the party of the criminal over the cop (I'm kinda exxagerating, but I think you get the point)

In the lead up to the election many on here laughed at me when I said Trump had a chance. I was on the road super early (4:00 AM) 5/6 times in a the 2 weeks leading up to the election. The Union, F150 driving guys you see on the road at that hour had Trump over Hillary stickers by a margin of 3:1.

As Bill Clinton said of Obamacare......it's the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week.....their premiums have doubled and their coverage has been cut in half.  They're the people the Democratic Party has forgotten
A lot of ordinary people voted for Trump in good faith. They thought he would help them. For a new government controlled by you.

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

Trump was bankrolled by the Mercers

The Mercers didn't spend all that money to help people in Indiana. Would you shtop. That is not how it works.
As Mitch MC Connell said early on "we can get him to sign anything "

Clinton would also have been corrupt but she wouldn't have introduced a $1.5 tn tax cut for plutocrats  paid for by gutting the programs that people in Louisiana depend on to get by.

It is hard to see the GOP surviving the latest  betrayal of the US working class.


Shut up! The democrats have betrayed the working class for decades.

Obamacare forced people in some states to have the flu shot, take it or be fired, bioth main parties are in bed with big pharma, the republicans are in bed with the NRA and both are puppets of wall st, both parties are bought and paid for and Clinton is one of if not the most corrupt politician in American history, you lot had her as your choice and hardly said a word when Bernie got fucked and now suddenly everything is Trumps fault? Really?

I love it that the Trump bashing continues unabated, it is wonderful, it means that the liberals will screw themselves in the upcoming elections, 95% of people who voted for Trump said they would vote for him again in a recent poll, probably because the left offers absolutely nada!

If you were on the ball Stew Alabama would have chosen Moore. Enough people have figured out Trump is a fraud 

The rest tune in to the gorilla channel.

Moore....who was already very unpopular in Alabama.....and now an alleged peado, lost by 1.5 points

If you think this is evidence of some tidal wave of support for the Democrats, please keep thinking that.

What will the Democrats bring to the table in 2018. If they're not careful they'll fvck this up spectacularly
How often do the Dems win a Senate seat in Alabama? Since 1968 it has been GOP. Beating Moore  was like Leitrim winning in Cashelbar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2018, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
1. Bernie didn't get fucked.
2. If the Dems have been screwing the working class, where does that leave the GOP? They're certainly not for them. Tax breaks for the rich, a weaker social safety net, and weakening worker, consumer and environmental protections are their raison d'etre. Although I'll admit that he GOP does a fine job of appealing to a certain section of the US working class by scapegoating gays and illegal immigrants and so on to distract them.

Rigged primary, rigged debates, rigged media......hahahaha

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

Bernie got shafted spectacularly

If Bernie was "fucked" or "shafted" by DNC bias, then surely there must have been some kind of injury that he suffered in terms of loss of votes or a failure to get his message out?

Bernie was a phenomenon. He got masses of news coverage, little of it negative (the right wing didn't even begin to work him over). He got his message out there and extended the campaign into June. Unfortunately for him, he lost big states like Illinois, New York and California, as well as the entire south (I live in NYC, and its not like there were tonnes of tv ads supporting Hillary and few in support of Bernie). And I don't hear anyone whining that Chafee or O'Malley or the like were fucked over by the DNC.

And seriously, the "rigged debate"?? Being warned that a Democratic debate in Flint, MI, in the spring of 2016 might include a question on the lead in water scandal is at about the same level of tipping the scale as warning Jurgen Klopp this week that he might get asked about Phillippe Coutinho in his press conference. And whatever else you might say about Hillary Clinton, whether or not you believe the likes of stew's moronic hyperbole about her being a murderer and the most corrupt US politician ever, there is no way that you could claim she is not extremely smart and prepared and informed or wouldn't anticipate that such a bleeding obvious, mickey-mouse question such as the Flint lead crisis, happening there and then, might come up in a Democratic debate in Flint. One could certainly see how a GOP debate might be less certain to feature discussion of such a public health and environmental scandal, I guess, but that's no excuse to be using this as evidence of Bernie getting fucked over.

As for the Times article, assuming that Bernie WAS treated unfairly with that article, well so what? Are you telling me there weren't papers out there that printed articles that leaned his way against Hillary, including the Times?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:21:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
1. Bernie didn't get fucked.
2. If the Dems have been screwing the working class, where does that leave the GOP? They're certainly not for them. Tax breaks for the rich, a weaker social safety net, and weakening worker, consumer and environmental protections are their raison d'etre. Although I'll admit that he GOP does a fine job of appealing to a certain section of the US working class by scapegoating gays and illegal immigrants and so on to distract them.

Rigged primary, rigged debates, rigged media......hahahaha

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

Bernie got shafted spectacularly

If Bernie was "fucked" or "shafted" by DNC bias, then surely there must have been some kind of injury that he suffered in terms of loss of votes or a failure to get his message out?

Bernie was a phenomenon. He got masses of news coverage, little of it negative (the right wing didn't even begin to work him over). He got his message out there and extended the campaign into June. Unfortunately for him, he lost big states like Illinois, New York and California, as well as the entire south (I live in NYC, and its not like there were tonnes of tv ads supporting Hillary and few in support of Bernie). And I don't hear anyone whining that Chafee or O'Malley or the like were fucked over by the DNC.

And seriously, the "rigged debate"?? Being warned that a Democratic debate in Flint, MI, in the spring of 2016 might include a question on the lead in water scandal is at about the same level of tipping the scale as warning Jurgen Klopp this week that he might get asked about Phillippe Coutinho in his press conference. And whatever else you might say about Hillary Clinton, whether or not you believe the likes of stew's moronic hyperbole about her being a murderer and the most corrupt US politician ever, there is no way that you could claim she is not extremely smart and prepared and informed or wouldn't anticipate that such a bleeding obvious, mickey-mouse question such as the Flint lead crisis, happening there and then, might come up in a Democratic debate in Flint. One could certainly see how a GOP debate might be less certain to feature discussion of such a public health and environmental scandal, I guess, but that's no excuse to be using this as evidence of Bernie getting fucked over.

As for the Times article, assuming that Bernie WAS treated unfairly with that article, well so what? Are you telling me there weren't papers out there that printed articles that leaned his way against Hillary, including the Times?

And here my friends is exactly why Hillary lost the most winnable election in the history of the Inited States.....absolutely no self awareness.... we didn't do anything wrong....deflecting and spinning.... I'm the most qualified, smartest, best prepared......blah, blah blah...Keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2018, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:21:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
1. Bernie didn't get fucked.
2. If the Dems have been screwing the working class, where does that leave the GOP? They're certainly not for them. Tax breaks for the rich, a weaker social safety net, and weakening worker, consumer and environmental protections are their raison d'etre. Although I'll admit that he GOP does a fine job of appealing to a certain section of the US working class by scapegoating gays and illegal immigrants and so on to distract them.

Rigged primary, rigged debates, rigged media......hahahaha

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

Bernie got shafted spectacularly

If Bernie was "fucked" or "shafted" by DNC bias, then surely there must have been some kind of injury that he suffered in terms of loss of votes or a failure to get his message out?

Bernie was a phenomenon. He got masses of news coverage, little of it negative (the right wing didn't even begin to work him over). He got his message out there and extended the campaign into June. Unfortunately for him, he lost big states like Illinois, New York and California, as well as the entire south (I live in NYC, and its not like there were tonnes of tv ads supporting Hillary and few in support of Bernie). And I don't hear anyone whining that Chafee or O'Malley or the like were fucked over by the DNC.

And seriously, the "rigged debate"?? Being warned that a Democratic debate in Flint, MI, in the spring of 2016 might include a question on the lead in water scandal is at about the same level of tipping the scale as warning Jurgen Klopp this week that he might get asked about Phillippe Coutinho in his press conference. And whatever else you might say about Hillary Clinton, whether or not you believe the likes of stew's moronic hyperbole about her being a murderer and the most corrupt US politician ever, there is no way that you could claim she is not extremely smart and prepared and informed or wouldn't anticipate that such a bleeding obvious, mickey-mouse question such as the Flint lead crisis, happening there and then, might come up in a Democratic debate in Flint. One could certainly see how a GOP debate might be less certain to feature discussion of such a public health and environmental scandal, I guess, but that's no excuse to be using this as evidence of Bernie getting fucked over.

As for the Times article, assuming that Bernie WAS treated unfairly with that article, well so what? Are you telling me there weren't papers out there that printed articles that leaned his way against Hillary, including the Times?

And here my friends is exactly why Hillary lost the most winnable election in the history of the Inited States.....absolutely no self awareness.... we didn't do anything wrong....deflecting and spinning.... I'm the most qualified, smartest, best prepared......blah, blah blah...Keep it up

Why don't you respond to what I said?

I never said the DNC did nothing wrong.

I called bullshit on some of your post, which you've ignored of course (just your usual, arrogant, vacuous "keep it up" nonsense), and questioned what actual effect, if any, the bias of the DNC had on the primary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:21:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
1. Bernie didn't get fucked.
2. If the Dems have been screwing the working class, where does that leave the GOP? They're certainly not for them. Tax breaks for the rich, a weaker social safety net, and weakening worker, consumer and environmental protections are their raison d'etre. Although I'll admit that he GOP does a fine job of appealing to a certain section of the US working class by scapegoating gays and illegal immigrants and so on to distract them.

Rigged primary, rigged debates, rigged media......hahahaha

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

Bernie got shafted spectacularly

If Bernie was "fucked" or "shafted" by DNC bias, then surely there must have been some kind of injury that he suffered in terms of loss of votes or a failure to get his message out?

Bernie was a phenomenon. He got masses of news coverage, little of it negative (the right wing didn't even begin to work him over). He got his message out there and extended the campaign into June. Unfortunately for him, he lost big states like Illinois, New York and California, as well as the entire south (I live in NYC, and its not like there were tonnes of tv ads supporting Hillary and few in support of Bernie). And I don't hear anyone whining that Chafee or O'Malley or the like were fucked over by the DNC.

And seriously, the "rigged debate"?? Being warned that a Democratic debate in Flint, MI, in the spring of 2016 might include a question on the lead in water scandal is at about the same level of tipping the scale as warning Jurgen Klopp this week that he might get asked about Phillippe Coutinho in his press conference. And whatever else you might say about Hillary Clinton, whether or not you believe the likes of stew's moronic hyperbole about her being a murderer and the most corrupt US politician ever, there is no way that you could claim she is not extremely smart and prepared and informed or wouldn't anticipate that such a bleeding obvious, mickey-mouse question such as the Flint lead crisis, happening there and then, might come up in a Democratic debate in Flint. One could certainly see how a GOP debate might be less certain to feature discussion of such a public health and environmental scandal, I guess, but that's no excuse to be using this as evidence of Bernie getting fucked over.

As for the Times article, assuming that Bernie WAS treated unfairly with that article, well so what? Are you telling me there weren't papers out there that printed articles that leaned his way against Hillary, including the Times?

And here my friends is exactly why Hillary lost the most winnable election in the history of the Inited States.....absolutely no self awareness.... we didn't do anything wrong....deflecting and spinning.... I'm the most qualified, smartest, best prepared......blah, blah blah...Keep it up

Why don't you respond to what I said?

I never said the DNC did nothing wrong.

I called bullshit on some of your post, which you've ignored of course (just your usual, arrogant, vacuous "keep it up" nonsense), and questioned what actual effect, if any, the bias of the DNC had on the primary.

A NY Times article was actually EDITED within hours of publication and turned from a pro Bernie piece to an anti Bernie hit job.  Its so obvious it seems as if Hillary herself edited it.

The DNC shut off access to the voter Database to Bernie

Debates were scheduled to coincide with Sunday night play off football games and other sporting events

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427026/why-democrats-buried-their-debates-times-no-one-will-watch-brendan-bordelon


The CNN debate question leak is the only one we know about.......how many more were there that werent exposed by wikileaks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2018, 02:24:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:21:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
1. Bernie didn't get fucked.
2. If the Dems have been screwing the working class, where does that leave the GOP? They're certainly not for them. Tax breaks for the rich, a weaker social safety net, and weakening worker, consumer and environmental protections are their raison d'etre. Although I'll admit that he GOP does a fine job of appealing to a certain section of the US working class by scapegoating gays and illegal immigrants and so on to distract them.

Rigged primary, rigged debates, rigged media......hahahaha

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

Bernie got shafted spectacularly

If Bernie was "fucked" or "shafted" by DNC bias, then surely there must have been some kind of injury that he suffered in terms of loss of votes or a failure to get his message out?

Bernie was a phenomenon. He got masses of news coverage, little of it negative (the right wing didn't even begin to work him over). He got his message out there and extended the campaign into June. Unfortunately for him, he lost big states like Illinois, New York and California, as well as the entire south (I live in NYC, and its not like there were tonnes of tv ads supporting Hillary and few in support of Bernie). And I don't hear anyone whining that Chafee or O'Malley or the like were fucked over by the DNC.

And seriously, the "rigged debate"?? Being warned that a Democratic debate in Flint, MI, in the spring of 2016 might include a question on the lead in water scandal is at about the same level of tipping the scale as warning Jurgen Klopp this week that he might get asked about Phillippe Coutinho in his press conference. And whatever else you might say about Hillary Clinton, whether or not you believe the likes of stew's moronic hyperbole about her being a murderer and the most corrupt US politician ever, there is no way that you could claim she is not extremely smart and prepared and informed or wouldn't anticipate that such a bleeding obvious, mickey-mouse question such as the Flint lead crisis, happening there and then, might come up in a Democratic debate in Flint. One could certainly see how a GOP debate might be less certain to feature discussion of such a public health and environmental scandal, I guess, but that's no excuse to be using this as evidence of Bernie getting fucked over.

As for the Times article, assuming that Bernie WAS treated unfairly with that article, well so what? Are you telling me there weren't papers out there that printed articles that leaned his way against Hillary, including the Times?

And here my friends is exactly why Hillary lost the most winnable election in the history of the Inited States.....absolutely no self awareness.... we didn't do anything wrong....deflecting and spinning.... I'm the most qualified, smartest, best prepared......blah, blah blah...Keep it up

Why don't you respond to what I said?

I never said the DNC did nothing wrong.

I called bullshit on some of your post, which you've ignored of course (just your usual, arrogant, vacuous "keep it up" nonsense), and questioned what actual effect, if any, the bias of the DNC had on the primary.

A NY Times article was actually EDITED within hours of publication and turned from a pro Bernie piece to an anti Bernie hit job.  Its so obvious it seems as if Hillary herself edited it.

The DNC shut off access to the voter Database to Bernie

Debates were scheduled to coincide with Sunday night play off football games and other sporting events

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427026/why-democrats-buried-their-debates-times-no-one-will-watch-brendan-bordelon


The CNN debate question leak is the only one we know about.......how many more were there that werent exposed by wikileaks

Its a shame the candidates weren't swamping Iowa and New Hampshire for months prior to the debates so that the public would know what Bernie stood for, not just Hillary. Oh... wait...

And again, I never said the DNC wasn't leaning towards Hillary. I questioned, and am still questioning, what difference it made. You are the one adamantly saying Bernie got "fucked" and "shafted". Everyone knew what Bernie stood for. His criticism of Hillary was widely broadcast, whether that was for Wall St. speeches or whatever. And this is the age of the internet. Its not the 1980s.

On the voter database, perhaps you could tell everyone how long that was for and why?

As for the leaked questions, given their overall involvement in the campaign and volume of leaks, why would Wikileaks choose to publish only one, and such an innocuous, obvious one at that? And just what debate did you watch where the serious questions came from left field or could not be anticipated and hadn't been discussed by each candidate dozens of times, whether in debates or interviews or opinion pieces or wherever? Most candidates have good command of these issues, exceptions like Trump or the, at the time, drugged-up Rick Perry aside.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2018, 02:44:24 PM
Eh....Bernie spent 50 days in Iowa and held 128 events. Hillary spent 42 days and held 86 events

What exactly are you implying by your statement?  Are you saying that the timing of this one debate didn't matter because no one was engaged at that stage?

What about the timing of the other debates? It was quite obvious they wanted to insulate her!

The DNC had their candidate picked and Bernie was undermined, double crossed and screwed over at every opportunity. To say the DNC "leaned" towards Hillary is the understatement of the decade

Everyone knew the topics, but having the actual question gives you a huge advantage other candidates did not have

Regarding the database breach read this and see if shutting down their access was an appropriate course Of action

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2018, 03:25:07 PM
So the database access was blocked for one whole day due to a breach by the Sanders campaign for which they sacked someone. That's the extent of Bernie's campaign getting shut out of the database claim you made?

My point on the Iowa debate was that both candidates had blanketed Iowa by that stage. NH too.

And yes, it seems they wanted to play conservatively for Hillary with the debate scheduling. Poor on behalf of the DNC. But again , what difference did that ultimately make?

And I'm not getting the wording of the question significance. They all retreat to their canned answers, and how many different forms could a "what is your view on the Flint lead crisis and who is to blame?" question take?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 07, 2018, 03:35:44 PM
A year on and still the debate on the mechanics of the election.  Is there any debate on changing things e.g. having the number of electoral votes changed to reflect population or whatever?

Anyway hope they have the big buttons well guarded in each country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2018, 03:39:09 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 07, 2018, 03:35:44 PM
A year on and still the debate on the mechanics of the election.  Is there any debate on changing things e.g. having the number of electoral votes changed to reflect population or whatever?

Anyway hope they have the big buttons well guarded in each country.

Census in 2020 will lead to redistributing and realignment. CA and NY will lose house seats.

Census, for the first time in years, is also being politicized by Trump. He wants to include a citizenship question (which of course will mean illegals won't engage and will go uncounted), while the agency tasked with carrying out the census is underfunded, undermanned and unprepared.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2018, 06:03:38 PM
Jaysus J70....were not agreeing on much today. I hope the artctic blast lifts soon as I have too much time on my hands

For those who don't live here and can't understand why anyone in a million years would vote for the Republicans reread what J70 just posted

He's advocating for illegals to be counted in the census!!!!

So if I'm the Democratic governor of a blue state, why not declare my state a sanctuary state. Illegals will (potentially) come flooding in, they'll get counted in the census and just like magic, my state gets increased representation and federal funding at the expense of states with legal and tax paying citizens.....

Mind boggling to say the least

https://fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/illegal-immigrants-distort-congressional-representation-and-federal-programs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2018, 07:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 06:03:38 PM
Jaysus J70....were not agreeing on much today. I hope the artctic blast lifts soon as I have too much time on my hands

For those who don't live here and can't understand why anyone in a million years would vote for the Republicans reread what J70 just posted

He's advocating for illegals to be counted in the census!!!!

So if I'm the Democratic governor of a blue state, why not declare my state a sanctuary state. Illegals will (potentially) come flooding in, they'll get counted in the census and just like magic, my state gets increased representation and federal funding at the expense of states with legal and tax paying citizens.....

Mind boggling to say the least

https://fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/illegal-immigrants-distort-congressional-representation-and-federal-programs


Illegals have always been counted in the census. Encouraging them not to answer and thus not be included in the numbers will only lead to faulty data, which has all kinds of repercussions way beyond mere political representation. The census is not meant to count the number of citizens; its meant to count the number of PEOPLE!

Since 2000, the long form census that for the previous 50 years used to go to one in six households is instead administered annually as the American Community Survey and collects data on citizenship and so forth.

Leave the census alone and fund and administer it properly without the politics!

Anyway, stay warm! Warming up down here tomorrow apparently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 07:25:27 PM
Trump apparatchik Stephen Miller intereviewed by Jake Tapper. He was doped off his head on something.  Weird

https://youtu.be/vU7v5A5P8BM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2018, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 07:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 06:03:38 PM
Jaysus J70....were not agreeing on much today. I hope the artctic blast lifts soon as I have too much time on my hands

For those who don't live here and can't understand why anyone in a million years would vote for the Republicans reread what J70 just posted

He's advocating for illegals to be counted in the census!!!!

So if I'm the Democratic governor of a blue state, why not declare my state a sanctuary state. Illegals will (potentially) come flooding in, they'll get counted in the census and just like magic, my state gets increased representation and federal funding at the expense of states with legal and tax paying citizens.....

Mind boggling to say the least

https://fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/illegal-immigrants-distort-congressional-representation-and-federal-programs

And we will continue to not agree when you use material from the likes of FAIR to back yourself up!

Illegals have always been counted in the census. Encouraging them not to answer and thus not be included in the numbers will only lead to faulty data, which has all kinds of repercussions way beyond mere political representation. The census is not meant to count the number of citizens; its meant to count the number of PEOPLE!

Since 2000, the long form census that for the previous 50 years used to go to one in six households is instead administered annually as the American Community Survey and collects data on citizenship and so forth.

Leave the census alone and fund and administer it properly without the politics!

So as a legal citizen and why should the power of my vote be diluted by the presence of illegals in other states? (Assuming one of thes states picks up additional congressmy/women)

Believe whatever you want, but that is an insane position for Democrats to take if you want to sway swing voters?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2018, 03:13:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:21:51 PM
I'm the most qualified, smartest, best prepared......blah, blah blah...Keep it up

That's precisely what she was. That's why she won the popular vote by over 2 million.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 08, 2018, 09:58:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 03:25:07 PM
So the database access was blocked for one whole day due to a breach by the Sanders campaign for which they sacked someone. That's the extent of Bernie's campaign getting shut out of the database claim you made?

My point on the Iowa debate was that both candidates had blanketed Iowa by that stage. NH too.

And yes, it seems they wanted to play conservatively for Hillary with the debate scheduling. Poor on behalf of the DNC. But again , what difference did that ultimately make?

And I'm not getting the wording of the question significance. They all retreat to their canned answers, and how many different forms could a "what is your view on the Flint lead crisis and who is to blame?" question take?

They should have sacked Clinton not 'someone' Thats the part you lot are missing, there is zero accountability from the left, none, people are sick of you, sick to the back teeth of you, thats why she lost, thats why you lost, arrogance and a complete lack of comprehension as to what was going on in the country.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 08, 2018, 11:19:04 AM
I've said it before on this thread but if you're interested in how the 2016 election was won you need to watch Greg Palast's the Best Democracy Money Can Buy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2018, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2018, 03:13:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 01:21:51 PM
I'm the most qualified, smartest, best prepared......blah, blah blah...Keep it up

That's precisely what she was. That's why she won the popular vote by over 2 million.

Winning the popular vote  and $2:15 will get you a coffe at Dunkin Donuts

That's not our system

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2018, 01:08:37 PM
covfefe?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2018, 01:33:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 07:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 06:03:38 PM
Jaysus J70....were not agreeing on much today. I hope the artctic blast lifts soon as I have too much time on my hands

For those who don't live here and can't understand why anyone in a million years would vote for the Republicans reread what J70 just posted

He's advocating for illegals to be counted in the census!!!!

So if I'm the Democratic governor of a blue state, why not declare my state a sanctuary state. Illegals will (potentially) come flooding in, they'll get counted in the census and just like magic, my state gets increased representation and federal funding at the expense of states with legal and tax paying citizens.....

Mind boggling to say the least

https://fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/illegal-immigrants-distort-congressional-representation-and-federal-programs

And we will continue to not agree when you use material from the likes of FAIR to back yourself up!

Illegals have always been counted in the census. Encouraging them not to answer and thus not be included in the numbers will only lead to faulty data, which has all kinds of repercussions way beyond mere political representation. The census is not meant to count the number of citizens; its meant to count the number of PEOPLE!

Since 2000, the long form census that for the previous 50 years used to go to one in six households is instead administered annually as the American Community Survey and collects data on citizenship and so forth.

Leave the census alone and fund and administer it properly without the politics!

So as a legal citizen and why should the power of my vote be diluted by the presence of illegals in other states? (Assuming one of thes states picks up additional congressmy/women)

Believe whatever you want, but that is an insane position for Democrats to take if you want to sway swing voters?

So all that matters is votes, and not the hard data necessary to keep a country functioning, stuff that relies on accurate counts of numbers of people?

I've no doubt the likes of yourself and the GOP can scaremonger and politicize the issue successfully (as with so many other issues), reducing the census in the perception of a lot of the public to a mere redistricting exercise, but in the real world all kinds of public policy and allocation of resources is based on actual numbers of people.

And all the while they're still collecting the citizenship data in the other annual survey...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: stew on January 08, 2018, 09:58:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 03:25:07 PM
So the database access was blocked for one whole day due to a breach by the Sanders campaign for which they sacked someone. That's the extent of Bernie's campaign getting shut out of the database claim you made?

My point on the Iowa debate was that both candidates had blanketed Iowa by that stage. NH too.

And yes, it seems they wanted to play conservatively for Hillary with the debate scheduling. Poor on behalf of the DNC. But again , what difference did that ultimately make?

And I'm not getting the wording of the question significance. They all retreat to their canned answers, and how many different forms could a "what is your view on the Flint lead crisis and who is to blame?" question take?

They should have sacked Clinton not 'someone' Thats the part you lot are missing, there is zero accountability from the left, none, people are sick of you, sick to the back teeth of you, thats why she lost, thats why you lost, arrogance and a complete lack of comprehension as to what was going on in the country.

What are you on about?

The "someone" was a member of Bernie's campaign, sacked by HIM.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2018, 01:33:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 07:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 06:03:38 PM
Jaysus J70....were not agreeing on much today. I hope the artctic blast lifts soon as I have too much time on my hands

For those who don't live here and can't understand why anyone in a million years would vote for the Republicans reread what J70 just posted

He's advocating for illegals to be counted in the census!!!!

So if I'm the Democratic governor of a blue state, why not declare my state a sanctuary state. Illegals will (potentially) come flooding in, they'll get counted in the census and just like magic, my state gets increased representation and federal funding at the expense of states with legal and tax paying citizens.....

Mind boggling to say the least

https://fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/illegal-immigrants-distort-congressional-representation-and-federal-programs

And we will continue to not agree when you use material from the likes of FAIR to back yourself up!

Illegals have always been counted in the census. Encouraging them not to answer and thus not be included in the numbers will only lead to faulty data, which has all kinds of repercussions way beyond mere political representation. The census is not meant to count the number of citizens; its meant to count the number of PEOPLE!

Since 2000, the long form census that for the previous 50 years used to go to one in six households is instead administered annually as the American Community Survey and collects data on citizenship and so forth.

Leave the census alone and fund and administer it properly without the politics!

So as a legal citizen and why should the power of my vote be diluted by the presence of illegals in other states? (Assuming one of thes states picks up additional congressmy/women)

Believe whatever you want, but that is an insane position for Democrats to take if you want to sway swing voters?

So all that matters is votes, and not the hard data necessary to keep a country functioning, stuff that relies on accurate counts of numbers of people?

I've no doubt the likes of yourself and the GOP can scaremonger and politicize the issue successfully (as with so many other issues), reducing the census in the perception of a lot of the public to a mere redistricting exercise, but in the real world all kinds of public policy and allocation of resources is based on actual numbers of people.

And all the while they're still collecting the citizenship data in the other annual survey...

In 1990 there was 3M illegals in the country.....now there's 11M

Democratic governors and mayors are refusing to obey Federal Immigration Law by the establishment of sanctuary states and sanctuary cities

What was let slide in the past shouldn't be let slide any longer because the underlying dynamics have changed dramatically and not for the good

Time for the Republicans to play hardball on this

(And for the record Im all for DACA and for letting law abiding illegals stay)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 08, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Whitey,
Without the census how do you know how many illegals to bitch about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2018, 03:20:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2018, 01:33:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2018, 07:20:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2018, 06:03:38 PM
Jaysus J70....were not agreeing on much today. I hope the artctic blast lifts soon as I have too much time on my hands

For those who don't live here and can't understand why anyone in a million years would vote for the Republicans reread what J70 just posted

He's advocating for illegals to be counted in the census!!!!

So if I'm the Democratic governor of a blue state, why not declare my state a sanctuary state. Illegals will (potentially) come flooding in, they'll get counted in the census and just like magic, my state gets increased representation and federal funding at the expense of states with legal and tax paying citizens.....

Mind boggling to say the least

https://fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/illegal-immigrants-distort-congressional-representation-and-federal-programs

And we will continue to not agree when you use material from the likes of FAIR to back yourself up!

Illegals have always been counted in the census. Encouraging them not to answer and thus not be included in the numbers will only lead to faulty data, which has all kinds of repercussions way beyond mere political representation. The census is not meant to count the number of citizens; its meant to count the number of PEOPLE!

Since 2000, the long form census that for the previous 50 years used to go to one in six households is instead administered annually as the American Community Survey and collects data on citizenship and so forth.

Leave the census alone and fund and administer it properly without the politics!

So as a legal citizen and why should the power of my vote be diluted by the presence of illegals in other states? (Assuming one of thes states picks up additional congressmy/women)

Believe whatever you want, but that is an insane position for Democrats to take if you want to sway swing voters?

So all that matters is votes, and not the hard data necessary to keep a country functioning, stuff that relies on accurate counts of numbers of people?

I've no doubt the likes of yourself and the GOP can scaremonger and politicize the issue successfully (as with so many other issues), reducing the census in the perception of a lot of the public to a mere redistricting exercise, but in the real world all kinds of public policy and allocation of resources is based on actual numbers of people.

And all the while they're still collecting the citizenship data in the other annual survey...

In 1990 there was 3M illegals in the country.....now there's 11M

Democratic governors and mayors are refusing to obey Federal Immigration Law by the establishment of sanctuary states and sanctuary cities

What was let slide in the past shouldn't be let slide any longer because the underlying dynamics have changed dramatically and not for the good

Time for the Republicans to play hardball on this

(And for the record Im all for DACA and for letting law abiding illegals stay)

Play hardball with what?

Intentionally discredit and defeat the purpose of the census before its even completed (assuming they get their shit together and organize it effectively, which is not looking likely), so that planners and governments, especially in big cities, don't know how, for example, many cops, school places or hospital beds are needed and where?

Its of a kind with abstinence-only sex education, creationism and climate denialism. Purely cynical, idealogical, political stance with no basis in reality.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2018, 03:34:12 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 08, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Whitey,
Without the census how do you know how many illegals to bitch about?

You haven't been following the thread

Trump wants to count them accurately by including a question on legal status on the census form

J70 feels that this question will lead to an underreporting because illegals won't answer the census at all

And I'm  questioning if for purposes of representation and federal funding if illegals should factored into the equation because it dilutes the vote of legal law abiding citizens (if a state with lots of illegals gets more congressmen)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2018, 03:37:13 PM
And just to further illustrate the intellectual bankruptcy of Trump's position (redundant, I know!), here is some recent data from Pew on illegal immigrants, broken down by state.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

The average proportion of K-12 students nationally who are the children of illegals is 7.3%. By state, it ranges from just about zero in Montana and Vermont to 13.4% in Texas and 17.6% in Nevada. Figures like that should be of some important for states and towns and school districts, one would imagine, especially when that overall figure for somewhere like Texas is very likely subject to within-state regional variation, with some areas much higher. Yet here are the likes of whitey advocating that the census be intentionally politicized and illegals intimidated into not participating, with the result that these people are undercounted.

You can get into all of the other data that is collected and make similar inferences as to what the effects might be on public policy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2018, 03:44:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2018, 03:37:13 PM
And just to further illustrate the intellectual bankruptcy of Trump's position (redundant, I know!), here is some recent data from Pew on illegal immigrants, broken down by state.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

The average proportion of K-12 students nationally who are the children of illegals is 7.3%. By state, it ranges from just about zero in Montana and Vermont to 13.4% in Texas and 17.6% in Nevada. Figures like that should be of some important for states and towns and school districts, one would imagine, especially when that overall figure for somewhere like Texas is very likely subject to within-state regional variation, with some areas much higher. Yet here are the likes of whitey advocating that the census be intentionally politicized and illegals intimidated into not participating, with the result that these people are undercounted.

You can get into all of the other data that is collected and make similar inferences as to what the effects might be on public policy.



There's 11-12 M people here illegally...    give them legal status (exclude and deport criminals)

Problem solved!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 08, 2018, 04:13:25 PM
Definite genius behaviour  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS34s-FX0AA0k4G.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 08, 2018, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 08, 2018, 04:13:25 PM
Definite genius behaviour  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS34s-FX0AA0k4G.jpg)

What do I do?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
In fairness, it is well known that he is a germaphobe and does not like to shake hands, so maybe he was a wee bit flustered.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 08, 2018, 04:57:02 PM
Not only does he fear Germans, he seems to dislike quite a few other nationalities as well!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2018, 05:26:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
In fairness, it is well known that he is a germaphobe and does not like to shake hands, so maybe he was a wee bit flustered.

No he's not......didn't it say in the Steele Dossier that Russian hookers were pissing down on top of him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 08, 2018, 06:06:52 PM
urine is sterile
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2018, 06:24:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2018, 05:26:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
In fairness, it is well known that he is a germaphobe and does not like to shake hands, so maybe he was a wee bit flustered.

No he's not......didn't it say in the Steele Dossier that Russian hookers were pissing down on top of him?

No - it didn't. Then again - I'm shocked you got something wrong  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2018, 06:30:27 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 08, 2018, 06:06:52 PM
urine is sterile

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 08, 2018, 06:58:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2018, 06:24:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2018, 05:26:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
In fairness, it is well known that he is a germaphobe and does not like to shake hands, so maybe he was a wee bit flustered.

No he's not......didn't it say in the Steele Dossier that Russian hookers were pissing down on top of him?

No - it didn't. Then again - I'm shocked you got something wrong  ::)

From https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

Steele Dossier text:
"Trump's conduct in Moscow included hiring the Presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton Hotel where he knew President and Mrs Obama had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia, and defiling the bed where they had slept by employing a number of prostitutes to perform a Golden Showers show in front of him. The hotel was know to be under FSB control with microphones and concealed cameras in all the main rooms to record anything they wanted to."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 08, 2018, 07:36:01 PM
So with a bit of a nerd stats background, there are a number of significant problems with the US Census- but this one (2020) is going to be a 'mare...

there is a constitutionally mandated census every 10 years - with 7 mandated questions on every household - this is used to apportion the 435 members of the House of Representatives over the 50 states proportionally to population.

There's also an American Community Survey- again legally mandated that underpins government government programs, this one is 60 questions and is the major factor behind geographic data for federal, state and municipality resource planning.

This census is the first to have a cost mandate, initially it had to cost less than the 2010 census, but then surprisingly that budget was reduced again. Earlier this year John Thompson resigned, he was the Census Bureau director and the role has not been filled.

There are a number of known issues with any census, and the economic science here is around the "undercount" which means that atypical folks respond disproportionally less to the census than the middle of the road seventy odd percent (based on jurisdiction). Thats where you have to spend the money to go after getting a more accurate picture of that 20 percent of the population. Statistically sampling is a typical approach (as well as a huge advertising effort), but thats been ruled out by the supreme court in the US, surprisingly ( no not really) it is now a black and white issue according to the Republican and Democratic parties in the US.

Thompson has resigned on the basis that he believed he had to register his refusal to compromise the count in order to support partisan goals.

Doesn't seem a great plan that given the technology and reach to have the most accurate numbers in the history of the United States, that partisan idiots (aka politicians) prefer a fungible nonsense approach...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2018, 08:28:34 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 08, 2018, 06:58:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2018, 06:24:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2018, 05:26:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
In fairness, it is well known that he is a germaphobe and does not like to shake hands, so maybe he was a wee bit flustered.

No he's not......didn't it say in the Steele Dossier that Russian hookers were pissing down on top of him?

No - it didn't. Then again - I'm shocked you got something wrong  ::)

From https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

Steele Dossier text:
"Trump's conduct in Moscow included hiring the Presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton Hotel where he knew President and Mrs Obama had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia, and defiling the bed where they had slept by employing a number of prostitutes to perform a Golden Showers show in front of him. The hotel was know to be under FSB control with microphones and concealed cameras in all the main rooms to record anything they wanted to."

Yeah - but that doesn't say they "were pissing down on top of him"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2018, 09:01:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2018, 06:24:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2018, 05:26:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
In fairness, it is well known that he is a germaphobe and does not like to shake hands, so maybe he was a wee bit flustered.

No he's not......didn't it say in the Steele Dossier that Russian hookers were pissing down on top of him?

No - it didn't. Then again - I'm shocked you got something wrong  ::)

Hence my use of a question mark

I dont bother fact checking jokes or tongue in cheek comments
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2018, 11:05:03 PM
So that's why you continually post articles from Fox News then? Gotcha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2018, 09:46:42 PM
I'm glad the ACA is in place to ensure that Steve Bannon still has health coverage in this time of unexpected job loss.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 09, 2018, 10:40:23 PM
Millionaire Steve Bannon?


Anyways - I see that piece of shit Sheriff Joe is running for Arizona Senator
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2018, 11:40:39 PM
He should be rotting in jail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 09, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 09, 2018, 10:40:23 PM
Millionaire Steve Bannon?


Anyways - I see that piece of shit Sheriff Joe is running for Arizona Senator
!


Really? The most time he would have done was 6 months, and if the illegals were not in the country illegally he would not have been able to stop them.

Was the man that killed the young lady on the pier in San Francisco a piece of shit? Or does the realm of 'piece of shit' lie squarely with republicans?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 09, 2018, 11:45:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2018, 11:40:39 PM
He should be rotting in jail.

So should Hillary Clinton and her entire staff, get over it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2018, 11:48:34 PM
Haha....I see the guy from Fusion GPS attended dinners with the "Russian Attorney" BOTH the night BEFORE and the night AFTER the Trump Tower meeting.  Wow.....the whole thing was a fvckin set up by the Clinton campaign
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 09, 2018, 11:52:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2018, 11:48:34 PM
Haha....I see the guy from Fusion GPS attended dinners with the "Russian Attorney" BOTH the night BEFORE and the night AFTER the Trump Tower meeting.  Wow.....the whole thing was a fvckin set up by the Clinton campaign

And that eejit hurl claims that poor ol sheriff Joe is a 'piece of shit' What does that make Hillory??????

Oprah for president in 2020! :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 12:18:57 AM
Here you go stew - there's a lot of words and no pictures so it might be a bit tough for you to follow.

https://www.gq.com/story/joe-arpaio-history/

He's a piece of shit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 10, 2018, 02:35:58 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 12:18:57 AM
Here you go stew - there's a lot of words and no pictures so it might be a bit tough for you to follow.

https://www.gq.com/story/joe-arpaio-history/

He's a piece of shit


Gab are you angry? Is there any need to insult me on this thread Gab?

The man hates people being in his country illegally and stood up for his principles to the point he went to jail for said principles, you love sanctuary cities, illegals and cherrypick the laws you want followed and the laws you dont, tell me, who exactly is the piece of shit here Gab?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 10, 2018, 02:54:25 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 12:18:57 AM
Here you go stew - there's a lot of words and no pictures so it might be a bit tough for you to follow.

https://www.gq.com/story/joe-arpaio-history/

He's a piece of shit

GQ is your source :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ That rag shot near nude minors ffs from a tv show, Glee I think it was.


Sanctuary cities are a piece of shit, Trudeau is a lying piece of shit, Obamas 10 trillion added to the defecit is a piece of shit as is the illegal that killed the young woman walking on the pier in San Francisco, if Joe had have had his way the latter piece of shit would never have had the opportunity to kill that lady, not that you give a shit Gab.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 03:39:44 AM
You seem very angry tonight stew. Is Sheriff Joe one of your heroes or something? Sorry if I insulted him.

You should call down a little - wouldn't want you having to take a few days "holiday" from the board again  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on January 10, 2018, 03:43:08 AM
Quote from: stew on January 10, 2018, 02:54:25 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 12:18:57 AM
Here you go stew - there's a lot of words and no pictures so it might be a bit tough for you to follow.

https://www.gq.com/story/joe-arpaio-history/

He's a piece of shit

GQ is your source :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ That rag shot near nude minors ffs from a tv show, Glee I think it was.


Sanctuary cities are a piece of shit, Trudeau is a lying piece of shit, Obamas 10 trillion added to the defecit is a piece of shit as is the illegal that killed the young woman walking on the pier in San Francisco, if Joe had have had his way the latter piece of shit would never have had the opportunity to kill that lady, not that you give a shit Gab.

The whole cast of Glee were in their mid-20s when filming started, in fact the male lead student was about 30. Christ, what a ridiculous thing to bring up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 03:53:24 AM
Oooooooops  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 07:17:48 AM
Mercer dumped Bannon. Interesting to see who calls the shots in the plutocracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 10, 2018, 12:16:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 03:39:44 AM
You seem very angry tonight stew. Is Sheriff Joe one of your heroes or something? Sorry if I insulted him.

You should call down a little - wouldn't want you having to take a few days "holiday" from the board again  :)

I am not angry Gab, I also dont give a damn about Sheriff Joe, he is not a hero of mine but he annoys you and I like that he annoys you, btw, is that illegal killer that shot the young lady on the pier in the sanctuary shithole that is san fran a kn**ker Gab? ( Answers on a postcard please) I also dont give two shites about this board nor do I care about you, but hey, enjoy the fact you got me banned, you must have got even more puffed up than you already are after that beat down you sad git!  :) I met you and to be honest never want a repeat performance, you are one miserable hoor if ever there was one.

I would call down a little if I knew how to call down, I assume you meant calm down, on your best day you could not rile me, you are an irrelevance in my life Gab as I am in yours, lets keep it that way kid!




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 01:06:53 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/ezwjFNk.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2018, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 12:18:57 AM
Here you go stew - there's a lot of words and no pictures so it might be a bit tough for you to follow.

https://www.gq.com/story/joe-arpaio-history/

He's a piece of shit


Ever think he's so hardcore because he wants to deter illegals from even entering his jurisdiction to begin with?

Let me see, as an illegal I can go to San Francisco where the taxpayers will pay for my medicinal marijuana and I have sanctuary or I can go to Phoenix and face sheriff Joe

More power to him I say
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 10, 2018, 02:33:48 PM
Yeah Gabe he's totally not angry . . .

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3t7RAFhu75Wwg/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on January 10, 2018, 02:41:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 12:18:57 AM
Here you go stew - there's a lot of words and no pictures so it might be a bit tough for you to follow.

https://www.gq.com/story/joe-arpaio-history/

He's a piece of shit


Ever think he's so hardcore because he wants to deter illegals from even entering his jurisdiction to begin with?

Let me see, as an illegal I can go to San Francisco where the taxpayers will pay for my medicinal marijuana and I have sanctuary or I can go to Phoenix and face sheriff Joe

More power to him I say

You'd need to go to a hospice to face Sheriff Joe at this stage. If not for Trump's nepotism it would be a prison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 02:57:52 PM
QuoteThe Trump administration has waived part of the punishment for five megabanks whose affiliates were convicted and fined for manipulating global interest rates. One of the Trump administration waivers was granted to Deutsche Bank — which is owed at least $130 million by President Donald Trump and his business empire, and has also been fined for its role in a Russian money laundering scheme.

The waivers were issued in a little-noticed announcement published in the Federal Register during the Christmas holiday week. They come less than two years after then-candidate Trump promised "I'm not going to let Wall Street get away with murder."

Disappointing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 10, 2018, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 09, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
Was the man that killed the young lady on the pier in San Francisco a piece of shit?

He's an oppressed hero to the likes of Eamon and Gabriel.

That's the sort of lads they are. You really have to wonder about their mental capacity to want to give sanctuary to folks like that.

There is a word for chaps like them. They know what it is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2018, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 12:18:57 AM
Here you go stew - there's a lot of words and no pictures so it might be a bit tough for you to follow.

https://www.gq.com/story/joe-arpaio-history/

He's a piece of shit



Ever think he's so hardcore because he wants to deter illegals from even entering his jurisdiction to begin with?

Let me see, as an illegal I can go to San Francisco where the taxpayers will pay for my medicinal marijuana and I have sanctuary or I can go to Phoenix and face sheriff Joe

More power to him I say

Yeah, auld Joe is someone to be admired.

Racial profiling, abuse of authority, contempt of court, ignoring sex crimes and child abuse in his jurisdiction, using public resources for his birther pursuits, mistreatment of prisoners (and I'm not talking about the pink underwear grandstanding, so spare us)... ticks all the boxes for the reactionary, paranoid conservative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2018, 04:12:43 PM
If I was a tax paying law abiding citizen of Phoenix and Joe's reputation scared off a bunch of scumbags, I'd be all for it

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2017/09/post_164.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2018, 04:26:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 04:12:43 PM
If I was a tax paying law abiding citizen of Phoenix and Joe's reputation scared off a bunch of scumbags, I'd be all for it

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2017/09/post_164.html

Given you're not one of the other pair, I presume you are not saying all these illegals are "scumbags" and equating them with child sex abusers?

In which case... so what? Scumbaggery and child abuse are not any more characteristic of illegal immigrants than legals or citizens (unless you have data?).

You can support stricter enforcement of immigration laws without descending to support of the tactics and thuggery that Arpaio engages in.

It's ironic though that you would use child sex abuse to bolster your support of Arpaio given his own failures in that respect.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 04:30:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 10, 2018, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 09, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
Was the man that killed the young lady on the pier in San Francisco a piece of shit?

He's an oppressed hero to the likes of Eamon and Gabriel.

That's the sort of lads they are. You really have to wonder about their mental capacity to want to give sanctuary to folks like that.

There is a word for chaps like them. They know what it is.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/8a4a99d3bd67ba8d9a025c36edf4a624/tenor.gif)

FakeNewsFox strikes again - kindly point out where I said I supported that guy or sanctuary cities.

I'll be waiting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2018, 04:46:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2018, 04:26:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 04:12:43 PM
If I was a tax paying law abiding citizen of Phoenix and Joe's reputation scared off a bunch of scumbags, I'd be all for it

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2017/09/post_164.html

Given you're not one of the other pair, I presume you are not saying all these illegals are "scumbags" and equating them with child sex abusers?

In which case... so what? Scumbaggery and child abuse are not any more characteristic of illegal immigrants than legals or citizens (unless you have data?).

You can support stricter enforcement of immigration laws without descending to support of the tactics and thuggery that Arpaio engages in.

It's ironic though that you would use child sex abuse to bolster your support of Arpaio given his own failures in that respect.


Hahahaha......if he caught them you and hurl in the bucket would be all for NOT handing them over to ICE for deportation. Sheriff Joe is just the reaction to the soft on crime we see in Democratic states and cities
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2018, 05:04:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 04:46:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2018, 04:26:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 04:12:43 PM
If I was a tax paying law abiding citizen of Phoenix and Joe's reputation scared off a bunch of scumbags, I'd be all for it

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2017/09/post_164.html

Given you're not one of the other pair, I presume you are not saying all these illegals are "scumbags" and equating them with child sex abusers?

In which case... so what? Scumbaggery and child abuse are not any more characteristic of illegal immigrants than legals or citizens (unless you have data?).

You can support stricter enforcement of immigration laws without descending to support of the tactics and thuggery that Arpaio engages in.

It's ironic though that you would use child sex abuse to bolster your support of Arpaio given his own failures in that respect.


Hahahaha......if he caught them you and hurl in the bucket would be all for NOT handing them over to ICE for deportation. Sheriff Joe is just the reaction to the soft on crime we see in Democratic states and cities

No, I'd be in favour of putting a child molester in prison and THEN deporting him.

Try again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2018, 05:17:54 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/kxan.com/2017/02/14/ice-detainer-on-accused-molester-initially-denied-opening-door-to-policy-change/amp/


Good to hear...maybe some if your fellow regressives will follow your lead

https://www.google.com/amp/kxan.com/2017/02/14/ice-detainer-on-accused-molester-initially-denied-opening-door-to-policy-change/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 10, 2018, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 04:46:00 PM
......if he caught them you and hurl in the bucket would be all for NOT handing them over to ICE for deportation. Sheriff Joe is just the reaction to the soft on crime we see in Democratic states and cities

Violent crime by state:

(https://www.santarosa-lawyer.com/united-states-crime-map-2017/map-icon.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2018, 07:26:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 10, 2018, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 04:46:00 PM
......if he caught them you and hurl in the bucket would be all for NOT handing them over to ICE for deportation. Sheriff Joe is just the reaction to the soft on crime we see in Democratic states and cities

Violent crime by state:

(https://www.santarosa-lawyer.com/united-states-crime-map-2017/map-icon.jpg)


Synapses not firing for you today?

I stated that they are soft on crime, not that they had the highest crime rates.

(And correct me if I am wrong, but are the most violent cities in the country not overwhelmingly Democrat strongholds)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 10, 2018, 08:51:42 PM
you know I used to take auld foxy on his merits, and then I saw his new avatar is Margaret Thatcher- wind up expertise level- 100.

if you were a tax payer in Phoenix, you might be a tad pissed off at the payouts that were made to cover up Joe's worng doings...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 09:21:30 PM
It's Enda Kenny's face superimposed onto her head
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 10, 2018, 09:29:50 PM
Is that supposed to help?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 10, 2018, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 10, 2018, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 09, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
Was the man that killed the young lady on the pier in San Francisco a piece of shit?

He's an oppressed hero to the likes of Eamon and Gabriel.

That's the sort of lads they are. You really have to wonder about their mental capacity to want to give sanctuary to folks like that.

There is a word for chaps like them. They know what it is.

Dont forget your man screen, he is worse than any of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 10, 2018, 10:38:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 04:30:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 10, 2018, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 09, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
Was the man that killed the young lady on the pier in San Francisco a piece of shit?

He's an oppressed hero to the likes of Eamon and Gabriel.

That's the sort of lads they are. You really have to wonder about their mental capacity to want to give sanctuary to folks like that.

There is a word for chaps like them. They know what it is.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/8a4a99d3bd67ba8d9a025c36edf4a624/tenor.gif)

FakeNewsFox strikes again - kindly point out where I said I supported that guy or sanctuary cities.

I'll be waiting.

Show us were you condemned him, have you not the same level of loathing for him you do the Sheriff?

As for you rattling anybody Hurl   :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 11:04:34 PM
Quoteyou are an irrelevance in my life

::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2018, 12:40:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 07:26:27 PM


Synapses not firing for you today?

I stated that they are soft on crime, not that they had the highest crime rates.


I believe we have a conservative waking up to the fact that so-called "tough on crime" policies don't lead to lower crime. There's hope for you yet!

Quote
(And correct me if I am wrong, but are the most violent cities in the country not overwhelmingly Democrat strongholds)

Put those goalposts back where you got them. You were talking about states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 11, 2018, 01:14:55 AM
Dude.....everything okay????

Re read my comments.....I specifically said states and CITIES.....it's there in black and white
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 02:49:59 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/trump-says-administration-will-take-very-strong-look-at-stricter-libel-laws/2018/01/10/9a1f68de-f633-11e7-91af-31ac729add94_story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 11, 2018, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 10, 2018, 01:06:53 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/ezwjFNk.gif)

You run into a few fellas from Coagh??  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2018, 01:53:15 PM
Quote from: stew on January 10, 2018, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 10, 2018, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 09, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
Was the man that killed the young lady on the pier in San Francisco a piece of shit?

He's an oppressed hero to the likes of Eamon and Gabriel.

That's the sort of lads they are. You really have to wonder about their mental capacity to want to give sanctuary to folks like that.

There is a word for chaps like them. They know what it is.

Dont forget your man screen, he is worse than any of them.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/26vUxJ9rqfwuIEkTu/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 11, 2018, 01:56:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 11, 2018, 01:53:15 PM
Quote from: stew on January 10, 2018, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 10, 2018, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: stew on January 09, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
Was the man that killed the young lady on the pier in San Francisco a piece of shit?

He's an oppressed hero to the likes of Eamon and Gabriel.

That's the sort of lads they are. You really have to wonder about their mental capacity to want to give sanctuary to folks like that.

There is a word for chaps like them. They know what it is.

Dont forget your man screen, he is worse than any of them.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/26vUxJ9rqfwuIEkTu/giphy.gif)

Screen - I'm not so sure it was meant as a compliment.
I think you've a long way to go to out-cuck those lads :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 11, 2018, 04:27:41 PM
If allegations of blackmail are true - needs to resign

http://www.kmov.com/story/37240190/governor-greitens-admits-to-extramarital-affair
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 11, 2018, 11:24:26 PM
Lovely stuff

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politics/immigrants-shithole-countries-trump/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2018, 11:59:10 PM
Classy as ever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2018, 12:01:51 AM
Actually I think it's a pretty fair description.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 12, 2018, 12:07:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2018, 12:01:51 AM
Actually I think it's a pretty fair description.

With your username I'm shocked 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 12, 2018, 12:16:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2018, 12:01:51 AM
Actually I think it's a pretty fair description.

Theres no hope for you at all is there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 01:42:32 AM
Is there any way we can raise funds to send Eamon & his liberal pals on a one way ticket to Haiti so they can experience the cosmopolitan delights of that country for themselves??

I'll stick in 50 quid. Who's with me?

Note: there is no Starbucks in Haiti. OMG Shithole??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 12, 2018, 01:44:15 AM
Starbucks?
They don't even have Nascar
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2018, 03:28:09 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 12, 2018, 12:16:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2018, 12:01:51 AM
Actually I think it's a pretty fair description.

Theres no hope for you at all is there?

If you wouldn't go there on vacation or live there it's a $hithole. While it was a terribly politically incorrect comment, he was right on the money
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 12, 2018, 04:38:30 AM
You do know that most of our ancestors here in the States came from a "shithole" country, right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 05:30:44 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 11, 2018, 11:24:26 PM
Lovely stuff

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politics/immigrants-shithole-countries-trump/index.html
Trump is the gift that keeps on giving.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Declan on January 12, 2018, 09:28:03 AM
Its incredible really to be observing this. Nothing Trump says surprises me anymore as he's obviously deranged/racist/senile - take your pick. Here's an extract from an interview with that liberal bastion the WSJ and its a real rant about how he is the smartest and best at everything, as WSJ tries to ask him about Bannon, must be read to be believed. The amazing thing is he got elected.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTTWKZFV4AAJrT4.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTTWLjiUQAAl5zl.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: Declan on January 12, 2018, 09:28:03 AM
Its incredible really to be observing this. Nothing Trump says surprises me anymore as he's obviously deranged/racist/senile - take your pick. Here's an extract from an interview with that liberal bastion the WSJ and its a real rant about how he is the smartest and best at everything, as WSJ tries to ask him about Bannon, must be read to be believed. The amazing thing is he got elected.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTTWKZFV4AAJrT4.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTTWLjiUQAAl5zl.jpg)
Great snippet. It's all out in the open now.
Vicente Fox  is a former Mexican president. He took an interesting way to reply to Trump

Vicente Fox Quesada(@VicenteFoxQue)

.@realDonaldTrump, your mouth is the foulest shithole in the world. With what authority do you proclaim who's welcome in America and who's not. America's greatness is built on diversity, or have you forgotten your immigrant background, Donald?

Maybe this is how people will treat Trump going forward. There is no point pretending he is normal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 01:27:41 PM
Grant Hamilton

@Gramiq

Genius. Until today, if you Googled "Trump" and "shithole" all you got were hotel reviews.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 12, 2018, 04:44:31 PM
Some sharp minds amongst his followers

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTWs9sdXUAA3JaB.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 12, 2018, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 12, 2018, 04:44:31 PM
Some sharp minds amongst his followers

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTWs9sdXUAA3JaB.jpg)

The man is some sort of savant, I mean he is capable of brilliance which is much more than tempered by his idiocy, he is a fascinating man who I think things will end badly for, no way he runs again against Oprah, the annointed one of the left in 2020, he will either be in the big house or in a rubber room in some hospital in Noo York.

I do love it that the liberals w**k themselves silly over his every utterance, they hate him no president has ever been hated since Lincoln, plus he beat their darling Hillory, that did not go down well, the youtube clips of the libs crying like childer at the result is priceless.

When are Oprah, Whoopi, bernhardt and the rest of the hollywood scumbags that said they were going to leave the country if Trump won actually going to move to Canada??? They cant go quick enough for me although I kinda like Oprah, at least she is a decent human being.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2018, 07:03:24 PM
2 Republicans who attended the meeting "do not recall Trump" making the $hithole comments

In other news the pink pussy cat hats are no w deemed offensive to women who don't have vaginas, and to women who don't have pink labias
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on January 12, 2018, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: stew on January 12, 2018, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 12, 2018, 04:44:31 PM
Some sharp minds amongst his followers

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTWs9sdXUAA3JaB.jpg)

The man is some sort of savant, I mean he is capable of brilliance which is much more than tempered by his idiocy, he is a fascinating man who I think things will end badly for, no way he runs again against Oprah, the annointed one of the left in 2020, he will either be in the big house or in a rubber room in some hospital in Noo York.

I do love it that the liberals w**k themselves silly over his every utterance, they hate him no president has ever been hated since Lincoln, plus he beat their darling Hillory, that did not go down well, the youtube clips of the libs crying like childer at the result is priceless.

When are Oprah, Whoopi, bernhardt and the rest of the hollywood scumbags that said they were going to leave the country if Trump won actually going to move to Canada??? They cant go quick enough for me although I kinda like Oprah, at least she is a decent human being.

Stew, the fact that you're a blow-in living in a foreign country and actually asking when born citizens in said country are going to leave is astonishing....Mind boggles.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2018, 07:08:16 PM
Quote from: stew on January 12, 2018, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 12, 2018, 04:44:31 PM
Some sharp minds amongst his followers

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTWs9sdXUAA3JaB.jpg)

The man is some sort of savant, I mean he is capable of brilliance which is much more than tempered by his idiocy, he is a fascinating man who I think things will end badly for, no way he runs again against Oprah, the annointed one of the left in 2020, he will either be in the big house or in a rubber room in some hospital in Noo York.

I do love it that the liberals w**k themselves silly over his every utterance, they hate him no president has ever been hated since Lincoln, plus he beat their darling Hillory, that did not go down well, the youtube clips of the libs crying like childer at the result is priceless.

When are Oprah, Whoopi, bernhardt and the rest of the hollywood scumbags that said they were going to leave the country if Trump won actually going to move to Canada??? They cant go quick enough for me although I kinda like Oprah, at least she is a decent human being.

I know someone who worked in a fancy hotel and seemingly Oprah is a
very kind and generous person.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 12, 2018, 07:21:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2018, 07:03:24 PM2 Republicans who attended the meeting "do not recall Trump" making the $hithole comments

Would you expect them to say anything else?  ::) ::)


edit: Lindsey Graham said that he did say it

QuoteU.S. Sen. Tim Scott said he talked to fellow South Carolina Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham about hearing President Donald Trump's "shithole countries" comment and Graham confirmed to him the president said it.

Graham, Scott said, told him the reported comments are "basically accurate."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2018, 08:06:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2018, 07:03:24 PM
2 Republicans who attended the meeting "do not recall Trump" making the $hithole comments

In other news the pink pussy cat hats are no w deemed offensive to women who don't have vaginas, and to women who don't have pink labias

There's a shock. "Didn't hear anything!"

Which is more plausible? That a long standing senior Senator would make such an accusation falsely, or that GOP members would be wary of crossing Trump and play it safe?

Who ever thought we'd see the day when a sitting president, at an MLK event, would be asked if he'd called Africa and the first black country in the Western Hemisphere "shitholes"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2018, 08:15:17 PM
Quote from: stew on January 12, 2018, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 12, 2018, 04:44:31 PM
Some sharp minds amongst his followers

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTWs9sdXUAA3JaB.jpg)

The man is some sort of savant, I mean he is capable of brilliance which is much more than tempered by his idiocy, he is a fascinating man who I think things will end badly for, no way he runs again ag
ainst Oprah, the annointed one of the left in 2020, he will either be in the big house or in a rubber room in some hospital in Noo York.

I do love it that the liberals w**k themselves silly over his every utterance, they hate him no president has ever been hated since Lincoln, plus he beat their darling Hillory, that did not go down well, the youtube clips of the libs crying like childer at the result is priceless.

When are Oprah, Whoopi, bernhardt and the rest of the hollywood scumbags that said they were going to leave the country if Trump won actually going to move to Canada??? They cant go quick enough for me although I kinda like Oprah, at least she is a decent human being.

1. Oprah won't run. The Dems need someone who knows what the f**k they're doing.
2. Are you suffering from dementia? Have you forgotten the shit Obama faced? Birthers? Secret Muslim? FEMA re-education camps? Jade Helm? Rushes on gun sales? Or how about your own twisted, unhinged hatred for Hillary and your accusations that she was a murderer? Have some self awareness.
3. We hear the same Canada shit EVERY election. And what about all those petulant secession drives in 2012? Has anyone seen Ted Nugent? He was supposed to be dead or in jail by summer 2013 if Obama was re-elected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2018, 08:22:04 PM
I would add stew, just how are people supposed to react to his daily lies and provocations?

Let it slide? Ignore him?

He's the f**king president, and he carries on like a deranged, big mouth drunk in the corner of the pub.

I get that you're delighted that he pisses off liberals. One must question why he doesn't piss YOU off however.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2018, 08:15:17 PM
Quote from: stew on January 12, 2018, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 12, 2018, 04:44:31 PM
Some sharp minds amongst his followers

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTWs9sdXUAA3JaB.jpg)

The man is some sort of savant, I mean he is capable of brilliance which is much more than tempered by his idiocy, he is a fascinating man who I think things will end badly for, no way he runs again ag
ainst Oprah, the annointed one of the left in 2020, he will either be in the big house or in a rubber room in some hospital in Noo York.

I do love it that the liberals w**k themselves silly over his every utterance, they hate him no president has ever been hated since Lincoln, plus he beat their darling Hillory, that did not go down well, the youtube clips of the libs crying like childer at the result is priceless.

When are Oprah, Whoopi, bernhardt and the rest of the hollywood scumbags that said they were going to leave the country if Trump won actually going to move to Canada??? They cant go quick enough for me although I kinda like Oprah, at least she is a decent human being.

1. Oprah won't run. The Dems need someone who knows what the f**k they're doing.
2. Are you suffering from dementia? Have you forgotten the shit Obama faced? Birthers? Secret Muslim? (http://www.iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/obama-mosque/images/Muslim%20Obama%20Barack%20Hussein%20Obama%20Muslim%20Turban%20&%20Garb%20Kenya.jpg) FEMA re-education camps? Jade Helm? Rushes on gun sales? Or how about your own twisted, unhinged hatred for Hillary and your accusations that she was a murderer? Have some self awareness.
3. We hear the same Canada shit EVERY election. And what about all those petulant secession drives in 2012? Has anyone seen Ted Nugent? He was supposed to be dead or in jail by summer 2013 if Obama was re-elected.

Fixed it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 12, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
Just applied for an ESTA. Will I get into Trump's America? Let's wait & see. Potential $14 down the drain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 12, 2018, 09:09:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2018, 08:22:04 PM
I would add stew, just how are people supposed to react to his daily lies and provocations?

Let it slide? Ignore him?

He's the f**king president, and he carries on like a deranged, big mouth drunk in the corner of the pub.

I get that you're delighted that he pisses off liberals. One must question why he doesn't piss YOU off however.

He does on a daily basis, every friggin day, that said like you lot I have an agenda and that agenda does not need me piling on this feckin eejit of a prez every day, like you lot I tend to highlight the lefts shit, just as you lot do the right.

Trump is no republican and I have no gra for the man but again I do love it when he fucks off the liberals at every turn, the more stress he causes the f**kers the better in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 09:56:46 PM
I do love how Nancy Pelosi called the extra money in workers pockets "crumbs"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 12, 2018, 10:04:11 PM
Bill,Hillary and denis o brien must be really pissed about the Haiti comments it was a gold mine to them far from a shithole
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 08:24:15 AM
Greg Sargent

@ThePlumLineGS


Trump and his allies have deployed endless euphemisms to cover up a basic fact: Trumpism is a reaction to the *ethnic and racial* mix of the U.S. population. It is *white* nationalism. That mask has now been torn off for good

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/01/12/trump-just-denied-his-shithole-comment-in-the-process-he-confirmed-the-worst

Trumpism is heavily driven by a reactionary backlash to the current ethnic and racial mix of the U.S. population — it is white nationalism, despite all the what-me-racist protestation to the contrary.

Trump's comments also reveal that this basic truth is shaping the White House's policy stances in the current immigration debate, something that is also being obscured with all sorts of rhetorical trickery. Trump's comments have upended the negotiations underway over a deal to protect the "dreamers." But it can no longer be denied that Trump opposes the deal at least in part because it does not do enough to resist or roll back ongoing racial and demographic trends.

In light of Trump's apparent claim that he wants to prioritize people from countries such as Norway, the uglier white nationalist cast of all of this is inescapable. Trump's fellow travelers have gone to great lengths to obscure this basic reality. In a now-infamous exchange, CNN's Jim Acosta asked White House immigration hard-liner Stephen Miller whether Trump's policies are designed "to engineer the racial and ethnic flow of people into this country." Miller reacted with outrage and repeatedly cast the goal as reducing the mere numbers of immigrants — ostensibly to protect U.S. workers from competition — which he said was in keeping with previous periods of lower immigration.

It is very hard to disentangle the goal of reducing the overall numbers of immigrant arrivals from the goal of shifting our current ethnic and racial mix. But Trump has now left little to no doubt that the real animating impulse is the latter.

 http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 13, 2018, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 08:24:15 AM
Greg Sargent

@ThePlumLineGS


Trump and his allies have deployed endless euphemisms to cover up a basic fact: Trumpism is a reaction to the *ethnic and racial* mix of the U.S. population. It is *white* nationalism. That mask has now been torn off for good

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/01/12/trump-just-denied-his-shithole-comment-in-the-process-he-confirmed-the-worst

Trumpism is heavily driven by a reactionary backlash to the current ethnic and racial mix of the U.S. population — it is white nationalism, despite all the what-me-racist protestation to the contrary.

Trump's comments also reveal that this basic truth is shaping the White House's policy stances in the current immigration debate, something that is also being obscured with all sorts of rhetorical trickery. Trump's comments have upended the negotiations underway over a deal to protect the "dreamers." But it can no longer be denied that Trump opposes the deal at least in part because it does not do enough to resist or roll back ongoing racial and demographic trends.

In light of Trump's apparent claim that he wants to prioritize people from countries such as Norway, the uglier white nationalist cast of all of this is inescapable. Trump's fellow travelers have gone to great lengths to obscure this basic reality. In a now-infamous exchange, CNN's Jim Acosta asked White House immigration hard-liner Stephen Miller whether Trump's policies are designed "to engineer the racial and ethnic flow of people into this country." Miller reacted with outrage and repeatedly cast the goal as reducing the mere numbers of immigrants — ostensibly to protect U.S. workers from competition — which he said was in keeping with previous periods of lower immigration.

It is very hard to disentangle the goal of reducing the overall numbers of immigrant arrivals from the goal of shifting our current ethnic and racial mix. But Trump has now left little to no doubt that the real animating impulse is the latter.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS

'In light of Trumps apparent clain' WOW, in this 'apparent claim' You forgot to mention he apparently included people from Asia, yes, those white Asians, he is dying to snap up the white Asians to go with the Norwegians, apparently he wants the red chinese as well!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 13, 2018, 04:48:30 PM
all these assholes getting might offended about a reported slur saying "shithole country".
If you are offended about your shithole being a shithole then do something about fixing it.

i didn't see any country being named but by f**k they are all jumping on the bandwagon. Probably looking for more funds to keep their plebs poor and themselves rich.

lots of gold presidential palaces in africa. why is that?

all i can say is
#ME TOO PERMANENTLY OFFENDED

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2018, 05:03:59 PM
Quote from: stew on January 12, 2018, 09:09:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2018, 08:22:04 PM
I would add stew, just how are people supposed to react to his daily lies and provocations?

Let it slide? Ignore him?

He's the f**king president, and he carries on like a deranged, big mouth drunk in the corner of the pub.

I get that you're delighted that he pisses off liberals. One must question why he doesn't piss YOU off however.

He does on a daily basis, every friggin day, that said like you lot I have an agenda and that agenda does not need me piling on this feckin eejit of a prez every day, like you lot I tend to highlight the lefts shit, just as you lot do the right.

Trump is no republican and I have no gra for the man but again I do love it when he f**ks off the liberals at every turn, the more stress he causes the f**kers the better in my opinion.

He pisses you off every day, but you come here reveling in the fact that he pisses us off too, trying to dress it up as some kind of failing on our part and whining (ludicrously) yesterday that "they hate him no president has ever been hated since Lincoln".

All right then. Congrats to you!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: foxcommander on January 13, 2018, 05:06:06 PM
(https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/26240501_1439632212846894_3146694524924870703_o.jpg?oh=04166884386af1947571b77a9ba2af68&oe=5AF26D94)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thebigfella on January 13, 2018, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 13, 2018, 05:06:06 PM
(https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/26240501_1439632212846894_3146694524924870703_o.jpg?oh=04166884386af1947571b77a9ba2af68&oe=5AF26D94)

That's obviously fake.... he actually said it about Armagh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 13, 2018, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2018, 05:03:59 PM
Quote from: stew on January 12, 2018, 09:09:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2018, 08:22:04 PM
I would add stew, just how are people supposed to react to his daily lies and provocations?

Let it slide? Ignore him?

He's the f**king president, and he carries on like a deranged, big mouth drunk in the corner of the pub.

I get that you're delighted that he pisses off liberals. One must question why he doesn't piss YOU off however.

He does on a daily basis, every friggin day, that said like you lot I have an agenda and that agenda does not need me piling on this feckin eejit of a prez every day, like you lot I tend to highlight the lefts shit, just as you lot do the right.

Trump is no republican and I have no gra for the man but again I do love it when he f**ks off the liberals at every turn, the more stress he causes the f**kers the better in my opinion.

He pisses you off every day, but you come here reveling in the fact that he pisses us off too, trying to dress it up as some kind of failing on our part and whining (ludicrously) yesterday that "they hate him no president has ever been hated since Lincoln".

All right then. Congrats to you!

I do, I hate with a passion your main causes, Abortion, BLM, I hate Trump bashing, the lack of accountability and corruption in your party, the cop hating, the fact that you added over 60 new ways for a male or a female to desribe themselves, tranny bathrooms, the unbelievable debt the left put the USA in, Benghazi, Clinton, Russia, Fake News, safe spaces, cop killings, frying em like bacon etc, your hollywood heroes molesting and harassing women and again not taking accountability fr any of this, there is more, plenty more but these are reasons I love to see liberals squirm and get stressed when that clampett Trump drops another clanger, and the best, the absolue best part of al of this is...he has always been a Democrat!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2018, 06:24:58 PM
I actually agree with Stew to an extent......with progressives finding offense at the silliest most ridiculous "slights", I have to chuckle when Trump gives them something to be really offended by.

In another note, I find it suspicious that news of the settlement with the porn star came less than a week after Bannon got canned from Breitbart
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2018, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2018, 06:24:58 PM
I actually agree with Stew to an extent......with progressives finding offense at the silliest most ridiculous "slights", I have to chuckle when Trump gives them something to be really offended by.

In another note, I find it suspicious that news of the settlement with the porn star came less than a week after Bannon got canned from Breitbart

Spare us the sanctimony. The right wing movement is based completely on resentment and a fake persecution complex. Yeah, Ryan and the Koch brothers are most concerned with tax cuts and regulation abolishment, but the movement gains its power from pushing those buttons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2018, 07:01:14 PM
Eh......I never said they weren't.....I was just responding to a prior poster.

Those on the right are just as easily triggered, just by a different set of (non) issues.

We can't say witch hunt here in Massachusetts anymore , because seemingly it's offensive to witches
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
Quote from: stew on January 13, 2018, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2018, 05:03:59 PM
Quote from: stew on January 12, 2018, 09:09:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2018, 08:22:04 PM
I would add stew, just how are people supposed to react to his daily lies and provocations?

Let it slide? Ignore him?

He's the f**king president, and he carries on like a deranged, big mouth drunk in the corner of the pub.

I get that you're delighted that he pisses off liberals. One must question why he doesn't piss YOU off however.

He does on a daily basis, every friggin day, that said like you lot I have an agenda and that agenda does not need me piling on this feckin eejit of a prez every day, like you lot I tend to highlight the lefts shit, just as you lot do the right.

Trump is no republican and I have no gra for the man but again I do love it when he f**ks off the liberals at every turn, the more stress he causes the f**kers the better in my opinion.

He pisses you off every day, but you come here reveling in the fact that he pisses us off too, trying to dress it up as some kind of failing on our part and whining (ludicrously) yesterday that "they hate him no president has ever been hated since Lincoln".

All right then. Congrats to you!

I do, I hate with a passion your main causes, Abortion, BLM, I hate Trump bashing, the lack of accountability and corruption in your party, the cop hating, the fact that you added over 60 new ways for a male or a female to desribe themselves, tranny bathrooms, the unbelievable debt the left put the USA in, Benghazi, Clinton, Russia, Fake News, safe spaces, cop killings, frying em like bacon etc, your hollywood heroes molesting and harassing women and again not taking accountability fr any of this, there is more, plenty more but these are reasons I love to see liberals squirm and get stressed when that clampett Trump drops another clanger, and the best, the absolue best part of al of this is...he has always been a Democrat!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Repeating your bullshit grievances more than once doesn't add much affect to your litany stew. Neither does including conspiracy theories like Benghazi as you rant about "fake news".

1. Lack of accountability: The DNC chair got the boot. So did Franken and Conyers. Why don't you tell us about GOP accountability? Tell us how they've opposed the goings on at Fox News, their media wing. Tell us how they're holding this charlatan of a president accountable. Tell us how the RNC rowed in behind the adolescent enthusiast Tell us how the GOP leadership held their party and presidential candidates to account for birtherism, for Jade Helm and the like.

2. With respect to LGBT stuff - which is better? Arguable overkill on the part of advocates, or naked bigotry, denial of legitimacy and attempts to legislate legal discrimination as espoused by the right?

3. BLM - we've been over this before, as per usual, but if you are going to define an entire movement by one chant at one march and use that to deny the legitimate concerns of these people with respect to treatment at the hands of police, then that says more about you and your issues than it does about BLM or the Democratic party. Further, according to your logic, demands that police be held to account equates to bigotry against police. A curious attitude from someone who grew up in Armagh when you did. And seriously, only a complete f**king moron would try to claim that liberals and/or the Democratic Party are for "cop killings".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2018, 07:06:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2018, 07:01:14 PM
Eh......I never said they weren't.....I was just responding to a prior poster.

Those on the right are just as easily triggered, just by a different set of (non) issues.

We can't say witch hunt here in Massachusetts anymore , because seemingly it's offensive to witches

;D Fair enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:22:24 PM
I don't know how any ordinary Joe could vote GOP

Between the late 1990s and 2015, non-college-educated white Americans went from 30 per cent less likely to 30 per cent more likely to die in their fifties than non-college-educated African-Americans. White males account for just under a third of America's population but over two-thirds of its suicides.

More than half of Trump's tax cuts will go to.the ultra rich.

Trump does not give a f**k about ordinary people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2018, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:22:24 PM
I don't know how any ordinary Joe could vote GOP

Between the late 1990s and 2015, non-college-educated white Americans went from 30 per cent less likely to 30 per cent more likely to die in their fifties than non-college-educated African-Americans. White males account for just under a third of America's population but over two-thirds of its suicides.

More than half of Trump's tax cuts will go to.the ultra rich.

Trump does not give a f**k about ordinary people.

Do you live here?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2018, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:22:24 PM
I don't know how any ordinary Joe could vote GOP

Between the late 1990s and 2015, non-college-educated white Americans went from 30 per cent less likely to 30 per cent more likely to die in their fifties than non-college-educated African-Americans. White males account for just under a third of America's population but over two-thirds of its suicides.

More than half of Trump's tax cuts will go to.the ultra rich.

Trump does not give a f**k about ordinary people.

Do you live here?

What difference would it make? Anyone can follow Norm Ornstein or Jeff Flake on twitter.
Jamie Dimon says you should expect a crash once a decade.
Trump's tax cuts mean the US will have a huge deficit for the next one. It wont be able to stimulate the economy to the tune of 10% of GDP like läst time.
401ks will be hammered.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2018, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2018, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:22:24 PM
I don't know how any ordinary Joe could vote GOP

Between the late 1990s and 2015, non-college-educated white Americans went from 30 per cent less likely to 30 per cent more likely to die in their fifties than non-college-educated African-Americans. White males account for just under a third of America's population but over two-thirds of its suicides.

More than half of Trump's tax cuts will go to.the ultra rich.

Trump does not give a f**k about ordinary people.

Do you live here?

What difference would it make? Anyone can follow Norm Ornstein or Jeff Flake on twitter.
Jamie Dimon says you should expect a crash once a decade.
Trump's tax cuts mean the US will have a huge deficit for the next one. It wont be able to stimulate the economy to the tune of 10% of GDP like läst time.
401ks will be hammered.

In all seriousness do you live here?

If you lived in a deep blue state thats been run into the ground the Democrats and youll soon understand why "ordinary Joes" vote Republican.   


Remember Bill Clintons off the cuff comment during the election on Obamacare......"its the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week, their premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half".  That has been the reality of Obamacare for many people who already had insurance. Most of my clients are self employed people with families......in many cases their annualy premiums have gone from $15K to close to $30K and they dont have anywhere near the choices when it comes to doctors, hospitals or specialists
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 13, 2018, 11:56:12 PM
Whitey, I know your question is directed to seafoid, but I do live in the States, have done so since 1979, both in Ohio and Florida.

I'll concede that Obamacare is seriously flawed, but I also see that an original Republican program has been systematically sabotaged by Republicans from the get-go, from way before the Trump era, dooming it to clunk along more like a creaky jalopy than a well-oiled machine. However, if the GOP had worked to repair and streamline it, then the problems you identify would be near non-existent.

Think of it as if you worked till you were blue in the face tuning your brand-new car into a taxi for everyone, but some of your neighbors, red-faced with jealously,did everything they could to thwart your efforts--loosening bolts, removing spark plugs, spooning sugar into the gas tank--then turned around and wrote a letter to the local newspaper, The Breit Fox, complaining that your taxi service did not work as well as you had promised. Instead, in its place, they had a shiny new taxi, one that they failed to explain would be way too expensive for quite a few in the neighborhood. That's what's going on now.

Whitey, do you believe that everyone should be entitled to healthcare, or are you happy that you have it but millions of others are denied it?  It all boils down to this fundamental existential question.

Much has been written about the GOP's long term plan to scuttle the ACA, and being a resident of the US has no bearing on whether someone can or can not have an informed opinion about it.

Also, I'm interested in the blue states that have been run into the ground, especially since I'm now surrounded by ruby red ones--Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana--that would seem to personify the term "run into the ground," ones that rely heavily on government assistance but where the average Joe or Beauregard seems bent on voting against his own healthcare self-interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 14, 2018, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 13, 2018, 11:56:12 PM
Whitey, I know your question is directed to seafoid, but I do live in the States, have done so since 1979, both in Ohio and Florida.

I'll concede that Obamacare is seriously flawed, but I also see that an original Republican program has been systematically sabotaged by Republicans from the get-go, from way before the Trump era, dooming it to clunk along more like a creaky jalopy than a well-oiled machine. However, if the GOP had worked to repair and streamline it, then the problems you identify would be near non-existent.

Think of it as if you worked till you were blue in the face tuning your brand-new car into a taxi for everyone, but some of your neighbors, red-faced with jealously,did everything they could to thwart your efforts--loosening bolts, removing spark plugs, spooning sugar into the gas tank--then turned around and wrote a letter to the local newspaper, The Breit Fox, complaining that your taxi service did not work as well as you had promised. Instead, in its place, they had a shiny new taxi, one that they failed to explain would be way too expensive for quite a few in the neighborhood. That's what's going on now.

Whitey, do you believe that everyone should be entitled to healthcare, or are you happy that you have it but millions of others are denied it?  It all boils down to this fundamental existential question.

Much has been written about the GOP's long term plan to scuttle the ACA, and being a resident of the US has no bearing on whether someone can or can not have an informed opinion about it.

Also, I'm interested in the blue states that have been run into the ground, especially since I'm now surrounded by ruby red ones--Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana--that would seem to personify the term "run into the ground," ones that rely heavily on government assistance but where the average Joe or Beauregard seems bent on voting against his own healthcare self-interest.

I shouldn't have muddied the water interjecting healthcare into the debate. The point I was trying to make (ineloquently I might add) by quoting Bill Clinton, is that to someone looking in from Europe Obamacare must be great.  The reality on the ground however is that people who already had insurance have gotten absolutely fvcked.  Instead of their premiums coming down by $2000, their premiums have gone up by $12,000.......his question was how can anyone vote for the GOP.......my answer is if your premiums have gone from $15,000 to $27,000 and you now have to drive an hour to the doctor (instead of 10 minutes) that would probably be enough for a swing voter to switch from Blue to Red.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 03:22:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2018, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2018, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:22:24 PM
I don't know how any ordinary Joe could vote GOP

Between the late 1990s and 2015, non-college-educated white Americans went from 30 per cent less likely to 30 per cent more likely to die in their fifties than non-college-educated African-Americans. White males account for just under a third of America's population but over two-thirds of its suicides.

More than half of Trump's tax cuts will go to.the ultra rich.

Trump does not give a f**k about ordinary people.

Do you live here?

What difference would it make? Anyone can follow Norm Ornstein or Jeff Flake on twitter.
Jamie Dimon says you should expect a crash once a decade.
Trump's tax cuts mean the US will have a huge deficit for the next one. It wont be able to stimulate the economy to the tune of 10% of GDP like läst time.
401ks will be hammered.

In all seriousness do you live here?

If you lived in a deep blue state thats been run into the ground the Democrats and youll soon understand why "ordinary Joes" vote Republican.   


Remember Bill Clintons off the cuff comment during the election on Obamacare......"its the craziest thing ever. People humping it 60 hours a week, their premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half".  That has been the reality of Obamacare for many people who already had insurance. Most of my clients are self employed people with families......in many cases their annualy premiums have gone from $15K to close to $30K and they dont have anywhere near the choices when it comes to doctors, hospitals or specialists

The US has several converging crises. One of them is healthcare 
It costs 17% of gdp and is increasing at 4% a year.


Andy Slavitt

@ASlavitt

BREAKING: The first state, KY, is scheduled to announce the requirement that many in Medicaid work or get cut off from care. If this looks anything like it did when I saw it last, it's only winners are poverty and an oppressive state run bureaucracy.

Healthcare is one of the mechanisms by which the 1% is pauperising the US.
The GOP is an enabler. The Dems aren't much better.
The whole things is going to crash.

When life expectancy is falling things are really shitholey.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2018, 11:39:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2018, 10:00:35 PM

If you lived in a deep blue state thats been run into the ground the Democrats and youll soon understand why "ordinary Joes" vote Republican.   


The blue states are subsidizing the red states, Whitey. It's been that way for quite some time. Why do you people keep repeating the same lies over and over again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 16, 2018, 12:01:57 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:22:24 PM
I don't know how any ordinary Joe could vote GOP

I do. Trump has done more in a year for black America than Obama did in eight years, the economy is on the uptick, jobs are coming back to the states from abroad and confidence in the working class/middle class is up in relation to the economy.


Between the late 1990s and 2015, non-college-educated white Americans went from 30 per cent less likely to 30 per cent more likely to die in their fifties than non-college-educated African-Americans. White males account for just under a third of America's population but over two-thirds of its suicides.

Trump has been in office a year, and this is his fault how exactly?

More than half of Trump's tax cuts will go to.the ultra rich.

I have seen different stats to those, but whatever suits your agenda hi!



Trump does not give a f**k about ordinary people.

I disagree, he cares a lot more about them than you lot, unlike Hillory he actually went out and talked to the people and is continuing to do so, working class blacks are doing better as is the middle class, I can fault him for plenty but at some point one of you liberal bucks have to give the man credit for something, the fact you cant speaks volumes and should tell you why your party fucked itself in the last election!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2018, 01:09:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2018, 11:39:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2018, 10:00:35 PM

If you lived in a deep blue state thats been run into the ground the Democrats and youll soon understand why "ordinary Joes" vote Republican.   


The blue states are subsidizing the red states, Whitey. It's been that way for quite some time. Why do you people keep repeating the same lies over and over again?


YYYYYYYYYYYYyAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNN. (completely separate topic, but nice attempt at diversion)

Believe what you want

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings

Bottom Five States

Maryland, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Illinois, and New Jersey rank in the bottom five states, largely a result of the low amounts of cash they have on hand and their large debt obligations. States that fail to address long-term drivers of debt and are not prepared for recessions will continue to rank poorly.

Each state has massive debt obligations. Each of the bottom five states exhibits serious signs of fiscal distress. Their large liabilities and low cash on hand raise serious concerns about their ability to pay bills.
Unfunded liabilities continue to be a problem. High deficits and debt obligations in the forms of unfunded pensions and healthcare benefits continue to drive each state into fiscal peril. Each holds tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars in unfunded liabilities—constituting a significant risk to taxpayers in both the short and the long term.
The bottom five states have changed since last year. Kentucky's position has declined, placing it in the bottom five this year. New York is no longer in the bottom five due to improvements in budget solvency. Illinois and New Jersey improved slightly but remain in the bottom five. Massachusetts also remains in the bottom five, in slightly worse positions than last year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 10:34:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2018, 01:09:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2018, 11:39:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2018, 10:00:35 PM

If you lived in a deep blue state thats been run into the ground the Democrats and youll soon understand why "ordinary Joes" vote Republican.   


The blue states are subsidizing the red states, Whitey. It's been that way for quite some time. Why do you people keep repeating the same lies over and over again?


YYYYYYYYYYYYyAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNN. (completely separate topic, but nice attempt at diversion)

Believe what you want

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings

Bottom Five States

Maryland, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Illinois, and New Jersey rank in the bottom five states, largely a result of the low amounts of cash they have on hand and their large debt obligations. States that fail to address long-term drivers of debt and are not prepared for recessions will continue to rank poorly.

Each state has massive debt obligations. Each of the bottom five states exhibits serious signs of fiscal distress. Their large liabilities and low cash on hand raise serious concerns about their ability to pay bills.
Unfunded liabilities continue to be a problem. High deficits and debt obligations in the forms of unfunded pensions and healthcare benefits continue to drive each state into fiscal peril. Each holds tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars in unfunded liabilities—constituting a significant risk to taxpayers in both the short and the long term.
The bottom five states have changed since last year. Kentucky's position has declined, placing it in the bottom five this year. New York is no longer in the bottom five due to improvements in budget solvency. Illinois and New Jersey improved slightly but remain in the bottom five. Massachusetts also remains in the bottom five, in slightly worse positions than last year.

There is far more debt than can be repaid.
Detroit showed the way a few years ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 17, 2018, 12:25:23 PM
Don given a clean bill of health by the White House Doctor

6'3 tall and weighing 239 lbs - which puts him 1 inch or 1lb short of being clinically obese.

Here is 6'3 Trump standing next to 6'1 Obama

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTs140iWsAEemiK.jpg)

and next to 6'2 Trudeau

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTswI5aWAAEvisA.jpg)


There's already been the birther movement - is this the start of the girther movement?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 17, 2018, 12:54:54 PM
Some test to work out the mental health of a president: a 10yr over here would answer them!  Maybe the us education system is worse than i thougjt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 17, 2018, 12:59:38 PM
Quote from: stew on January 16, 2018, 12:01:57 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:22:24 PM
I don't know how any ordinary Joe could vote GOP

I do. Trump has done more in a year for black America than Obama did in eight years, the economy is on the uptick, jobs are coming back to the states from abroad and confidence in the working class/middle class is up in relation to the economy.


Between the late 1990s and 2015, non-college-educated white Americans went from 30 per cent less likely to 30 per cent more likely to die in their fifties than non-college-educated African-Americans. White males account for just under a third of America's population but over two-thirds of its suicides.

Trump has been in office a year, and this is his fault how exactly?

More than half of Trump's tax cuts will go to.the ultra rich.

I have seen different stats to those, but whatever suits your agenda hi!



Trump does not give a f**k about ordinary people.

I disagree, he cares a lot more about them than you lot, unlike Hillory he actually went out and talked to the people and is continuing to do so, working class blacks are doing better as is the middle class, I can fault him for plenty but at some point one of you liberal bucks have to give the man credit for something, the fact you cant speaks volumes and should tell you why your party fucked itself in the last election!

Should we repost the job and stock market trend graphs again?

I'll grant you that Trump seized upon long-in-progress de-industrialization of parts of the US as a political football, but that doesn't mean he gives a f**k about those people or that he is going to do anything for them. All we've seen so far is attempts to strip away environmental protections, the social safety net, and tax breaks for rich people. And demonization of immigrants and a willingness to hold foreign-born young people who've lived here virtually their entire lives hostage to his wall demands. I guess that plays well with some "ordinary people" who need a scapegoat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 17, 2018, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 17, 2018, 12:25:23 PM
Don given a clean bill of health by the White House Doctor

6'3 tall and weighing 239 lbs - which puts him 1 inch or 1lb short of being clinically obese.

Here is 6'3 Trump standing next to 6'1 Obama

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTs140iWsAEemiK.jpg)

and next to 6'2 Trudeau

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTswI5aWAAEvisA.jpg)


There's already been the birther movement - is this the start of the girther movement?

Haha...good one

Im sure there was some fudging of the numbers, but you should use different photos if you want to prove your point.  First photo, trump is leaning sideways so thats no good......second one Trumps shoulder is noticeably higher than Trudeaus, so he actually does look taller.  Hard to tell with the mop of hair
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on January 17, 2018, 01:55:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 16, 2018, 12:01:57 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:22:24 PM
I don't know how any ordinary Joe could vote GOP

I do. Trump has done more in a year for black America than Obama did in eight years, the economy is on the uptick, jobs are coming back to the states from abroad and confidence in the working class/middle class is up in relation to the economy.


Between the late 1990s and 2015, non-college-educated white Americans went from 30 per cent less likely to 30 per cent more likely to die in their fifties than non-college-educated African-Americans. White males account for just under a third of America's population but over two-thirds of its suicides.

Trump has been in office a year, and this is his fault how exactly?

More than half of Trump's tax cuts will go to.the ultra rich.

I have seen different stats to those, but whatever suits your agenda hi!



Trump does not give a f**k about ordinary people.

I disagree, he cares a lot more about them than you lot, unlike Hillory he actually went out and talked to the people and is continuing to do so, working class blacks are doing better as is the middle class, I can fault him for plenty but at some point one of you liberal bucks have to give the man credit for something, the fact you cant speaks volumes and should tell you why your party fucked itself in the last election!

Still wouldnt have mattered if they had applied for a tennacy in one of Trump's properties back in the day. But here gloss over everything in the mans past to paint a picture of something that is the complete opposite to what he actually is.

Pity that the american people have been too stupid or too niave to realise what they have done, but they will at some point, usually when it is too late.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 17, 2018, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 17, 2018, 01:35:55 PMIm sure there was some fudging of the numbers, but you should use different photos if you want to prove your point.  First photo, trump is leaning sideways so thats no good......second one Trumps shoulder is noticeably higher than Trudeaus, so he actually does look taller.  Hard to tell with the mop of hair

Keep fighting the good fight whitey

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 17, 2018, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 17, 2018, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 17, 2018, 12:25:23 PM
Don given a clean bill of health by the White House Doctor

6'3 tall and weighing 239 lbs - which puts him 1 inch or 1lb short of being clinically obese.

Here is 6'3 Trump standing next to 6'1 Obama

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTs140iWsAEemiK.jpg)

and next to 6'2 Trudeau

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTswI5aWAAEvisA.jpg)


There's already been the birther movement - is this the start of the girther movement?

Haha...good one

Im sure there was some fudging of the numbers, but you should use different photos if you want to prove your point.  First photo, trump is leaning sideways so thats no good......second one Trumps shoulder is noticeably higher than Trudeaus, so he actually does look taller.  Hard to tell with the mop of hair

FFS  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 17, 2018, 02:05:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 17, 2018, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 17, 2018, 01:35:55 PMIm sure there was some fudging of the numbers, but you should use different photos if you want to prove your point.  First photo, trump is leaning sideways so thats no good......second one Trumps shoulder is noticeably higher than Trudeaus, so he actually does look taller.  Hard to tell with the mop of hair

Keep fighting the good fight whitey

Haha....I agreed with you that he fudged the numbers, but those photos you posted prove nothing.....they actually undermine your argument
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 17, 2018, 02:07:10 PM
(http://replygif.net/i/166.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 04:21:51 PM
https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/01/17/trump-credibility-capitol-hill-lawmakers-negotiating-342989

Donald Trump ran for president as a bipartisan deal-maker. But if there's one thing he's proven after a year in office, he's better at killing bipartisan deals than clinching them.

On the cusp of a deal for the second time with Democrats to enshrine protections for 700,000 young undocumented immigrants, Trump once again destroyed the underpinnings of the potential agreement. After nixing any potential Dreamers deal last fall with "Chuck and Nancy" — Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi — this time Trump blew up a tentative agreement during a meeting in the Oval Office. He used racially charged language and later publicly mocked Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), who had said Trump told him just hours earlier they had an agreement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 17, 2018, 05:24:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 17, 2018, 02:05:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 17, 2018, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 17, 2018, 01:35:55 PMIm sure there was some fudging of the numbers, but you should use different photos if you want to prove your point.  First photo, trump is leaning sideways so thats no good......second one Trumps shoulder is noticeably higher than Trudeaus, so he actually does look taller.  Hard to tell with the mop of hair

Keep fighting the good fight whitey

Haha....I agreed with you that he fudged the numbers, but those photos you posted prove nothing.....they actually undermine your argument

Jesus wept. How embarrassing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 17, 2018, 06:22:21 PM
Which mop of hair?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 17, 2018, 06:25:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 17, 2018, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 17, 2018, 12:25:23 PM
Don given a clean bill of health by the White House Doctor

6'3 tall and weighing 239 lbs - which puts him 1 inch or 1lb short of being clinically obese.

Here is 6'3 Trump standing next to 6'1 Obama

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTs140iWsAEemiK.jpg)

and next to 6'2 Trudeau

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTswI5aWAAEvisA.jpg)


There's already been the birther movement - is this the start of the girther movement?

Haha...good one

Im sure there was some fudging of the numbers, but you should use different photos if you want to prove your point.  First photo, trump is leaning sideways so thats no good......second one Trumps shoulder is noticeably higher than Trudeaus, so he actually does look taller.  Hard to tell with the mop of hair

Where's Ballinaman? He can settle this once and for all. Master of angles on Gaaboard evidence!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 17, 2018, 10:48:38 PM
so the stormy daniels interview has been released by in touch magazine, as well as the polygraph she passed and the witnesses interviews. And while I think it is hilarious, it doesn't really impact his ability to be president, the question is now- what does Melania do?
Divorce while in the white house? She'll get whatever she wants not to testify...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 17, 2018, 11:07:21 PM
It's from their press release

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180117005748/en/

QuoteCombining new investments and Apple's current pace of spending with domestic suppliers and manufacturers — an estimated $55 billion for 2018 — Apple's direct contribution to the US economy will be more than $350 billion over the next five years, not including Apple's ongoing tax payments, the tax revenues generated from employees' wages and the sale of Apple products.

Planned capital expenditures in the US, investments in American manufacturing over five years and a record tax payment upon repatriation of overseas profits will account for approximately $75 billion of Apple's direct contribution.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 01:02:25 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 17, 2018, 10:48:38 PM
so the stormy daniels interview has been released by in touch magazine, as well as the polygraph she passed and the witnesses interviews. And while I think it is hilarious, it doesn't really impact his ability to be president, the question is now- what does Melania do?
Divorce while in the white house? She'll get whatever she wants not to testify...

Can you even imagine if it had been Obama these allegations came out about (Fox News would be fit to be tied!! ;D) or George W Bush??

Trump... ok, that's today's semi-interesting page 8 story...

Porn stars, racism, corruption, daily naked, bald-faced lies... how low can the bar go??

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 18, 2018, 01:18:48 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/
30 billion wouldn't get u much in Silicon Valley
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 18, 2018, 02:18:57 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 18, 2018, 01:18:48 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/
30 billion wouldn't get u much in Silicon Valley

Ah FFS will you stop speading fake news.....theres 2 parts to this

(1) Theyre going to pay $38 B in taxes on the profits they will be repatriating

(2) They are going to INVEST $350 B over the next 5 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/

Obama was still President when that campus began construction. I pass by it all the time. Don't tell me Trump is trying to take credit for it. What's it going to be next? Claiming that he got Bin Laden?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 18, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"

When have you ever seen me defend Trump?  I think hes the biggest arsehole that ever walked

(The fact that some one posted a pile of shite yesterday and I called them on it has nothing to do with me "defending" Trump)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 11:54:20 AM
Trump's hair loss drug was recently linked to irreversible erectile dysfunction and depression (link: http://bit.ly/2ERPunx)

This is also excellent

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2018/jan/18/fear-donald-trump-us-president-art-of-the-deal
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 12:59:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/

Obama was still President when that campus began construction. I pass by it all the time. Don't tell me Trump is trying to take credit for it. What's it going to be next? Claiming that he got Bin Laden?

Nah, he will claim he was the man that paid four hundred million for four hostages, he will claim releasing multiple Al Queda top men for a traitor, he will claim the 10 trillion in eight years defecit, he will claim black people are worse off from he got in office until he left, the depletion of the funding for the armed services, 60 new genders, the corruption in the democratic party of which he donated money too, you know, that stuff, you can make Obama out to be what you want to kid, he was one of the most useless bastards of all time in that office.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 18, 2018, 01:23:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 10:32:01 AMWhen have you ever seen me defend Trump?  I think hes the biggest arsehole that ever walked

(The fact that some one posted a pile of shite yesterday and I called them on it has nothing to do with me "defending" Trump)

(http://replygif.net/i/166.gif)



(http://i66.tinypic.com/2ep6blu.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 12:59:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/

Obama was still President when that campus began construction. I pass by it all the time. Don't tell me Trump is trying to take credit for it. What's it going to be next? Claiming that he got Bin Laden?

Nah, he will claim he was the man that paid four hundred million for four hostages, he will claim releasing multiple Al Queda top men for a traitor, he will claim the 10 trillion in eight years defecit, he will claim black people are worse off from he got in office until he left, the depletion of the funding for the armed services, 60 new genders, the corruption in the democratic party of which he donated money too, you know, that stuff, you can make Obama out to be what you want to kid, he was one of the most useless b**tards of all time in that office.

So instead of acknowledging or debating his actual point, the only response you have is another hyperbolic, deranged screed about Obama and the Dems and transgender people (I'd address your "points", but I already have, numerous times before, and all you do is hold your hands over your ears and go "la la la, I can't hear you!").

But oh yeah, you really do hate Trump!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"

There are no Trumpkins on this site, no one like this fuckwit, he is one of yours after all, thanks for nothing.

As for this alleged affair, men and women do it all the time, to me the best president ever was Roosevelt, he was a known philanderer, and dont get me started on the St John F Kennedy, he loved orgys and was a depraved mofo, nobody cares about affairs these f**kers have or have had, they blindly follow left or right, and its not as if the left had any moral high ground to scurry to now is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 12:59:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/

Obama was still President when that campus began construction. I pass by it all the time. Don't tell me Trump is trying to take credit for it. What's it going to be next? Claiming that he got Bin Laden?

Nah, he will claim he was the man that paid four hundred million for four hostages, he will claim releasing multiple Al Queda top men for a traitor, he will claim the 10 trillion in eight years defecit, he will claim black people are worse off from he got in office until he left, the depletion of the funding for the armed services, 60 new genders, the corruption in the democratic party of which he donated money too, you know, that stuff, you can make Obama out to be what you want to kid, he was one of the most useless b**tards of all time in that office.

So instead of acknowledging or debating his actual point, the only response you have is another hyperbolic, deranged screed about Obama and the Dems and transgender people (I'd address your "points", but I already have, numerous times before, and all you do is hold your hands over your ears and go "la la la, I can't hear you!").

But oh yeah, you really do hate Trump!

I dont hate Trump, I think he is an arrogant AHole, Show me were I was deranged? Hyperbolic?

The problem with you liberals is you cannot give this man credit for one single thing he has done, all you do is blast away en masse and yet you lost, you cannot fathom losing to the likes of Trump so you attach him at every turn, even before he became President you were hating on him, I hate Clinton, I have made that quite clear so dont tell me who I hate and who I dont, I am very open about this shit and have been consistent in my disgust with the left in America, the far right is just as repugnant and there is no room for debate when you clones attack the right, frankly you all would be better off figuring out how to ensure the next democratic election is not rigged, why Trump got so much of the black vote and hispanic vote given his so called racism and how you all are going to turn it around in the fall and get Oprah and the Rock elected in 2020. :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"

There are no Trumpkins on this site, no one like this fuckwit, he is one of yours after all, thanks for nothing.

As for this alleged affair, men and women do it all the time, to me the best president ever was Roosevelt, he was a known philanderer, and dont get me started on the St John F Kennedy, he loved orgys and was a depraved mofo, nobody cares about affairs these f**kers have or have had, they blindly follow left or right, and its not as if the left had any moral high ground to scurry to now is it?

Yes, but the left don't drone on and on about being the "values" party/voters or oppose gay rights because of, you know "the family".

And once again you're dishonestly trying to hide behind the tiny fig leaf that Trump was once a Democrat (so was Reagan BTW) as if that somehow negated your own party and movement rowing in behind his leadership, lies and policies. Shameless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"

There are no Trumpkins on this site, no one like this fuckwit, he is one of yours after all, thanks for nothing.

As for this alleged affair, men and women do it all the time, to me the best president ever was Roosevelt, he was a known philanderer, and dont get me started on the St John F Kennedy, he loved orgys and was a depraved mofo, nobody cares about affairs these f**kers have or have had, they blindly follow left or right, and its not as if the left had any moral high ground to scurry to now is it?

Yes, but the left don't drone on and on about being the "values" party/voters or oppose gay rights because of, you know "the family".

And once again you're dishonestly trying to hide behind the tiny fig leaf that Trump was once a Democrat (so was Reagan BTW) as if that somehow negated your own party and movement rowing in behind his leadership, lies and policies. Shameless.

I dont have a party, I find there is plenty of scum in both parties, I have never claimed to be a republican, I have a lot of time for libertarianism and would consider myself a fiscal conservative, I was once a fan of the left, I simply saw through their bullshit over the years and the rise of pelosi and Clinton etc I really thought the US needed a strong centralist party, it has never had one but it badly needs one, or two or three.

I dont hide behind anything and am not ashamed of my political leanings, you are a clone, you are in the in crowd on here, you get to bash the right all day and give no credit to the president who has had successes but you do not have the balls to admit that, no, make that the character, the very thing that liberals are missing and the reason you lot are losing to Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 12:59:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/

Obama was still President when that campus began construction. I pass by it all the time. Don't tell me Trump is trying to take credit for it. What's it going to be next? Claiming that he got Bin Laden?

Nah, he will claim he was the man that paid four hundred million for four hostages, he will claim releasing multiple Al Queda top men for a traitor, he will claim the 10 trillion in eight years defecit, he will claim black people are worse off from he got in office until he left, the depletion of the funding for the armed services, 60 new genders, the corruption in the democratic party of which he donated money too, you know, that stuff, you can make Obama out to be what you want to kid, he was one of the most useless b**tards of all time in that office.

So instead of acknowledging or debating his actual point, the only response you have is another hyperbolic, deranged screed about Obama and the Dems and transgender people (I'd address your "points", but I already have, numerous times before, and all you do is hold your hands over your ears and go "la la la, I can't hear you!").

But oh yeah, you really do hate Trump!

I dont hate Trump, I think he is an arrogant AHole, Show me were I was deranged? Hyperbolic?

The problem with you liberals is you cannot give this man credit for one single thing he has done, all you do is blast away en masse and yet you lost, you cannot fathom losing to the likes of Trump so you attach him at every turn, even before he became President you were hating on him, I hate Clinton, I have made that quite clear so dont tell me who I hate and who I dont, I am very open about this shit and have been consistent in my disgust with the left in America, the far right is just as repugnant and there is no room for debate when you clones attack the right, frankly you all would be better off figuring out how to ensure the next democratic election is not rigged, why Trump got so much of the black vote and hispanic vote given his so called racism and how you all are going to turn it around in the fall and get Oprah and the Rock elected in 2020. :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Why would anyone EVER like Trump? He is a narcissistic liar with no self-awareness who doesn't and never has given a f**k who he hurts and used/uses naked prejudice and the most devisive rhetoric to gain power and has done so for years? You constantly say yourself you dislike him (you just did in this very post), yet you castigate others for doing the same! Make up your f**king mind! Or tell us why we SHOULD like him or at least not despise or even dislike him? Was he supposed to get a clean slate on taking office after the birther stuff, the Central Park Five, the Mexican rapists, the inauguration crowds and all the other lies and hateful bullshit that has emanated from his mouth?

And on top of that he has an appalling and corrupt policy program, especially on the environment, the poor and immigration ( why the f**k are the Dreamers a bargaining chip??).

And deranged - you throw together a few random, half-baked issues and use that to declare Obama, handed one of the most difficult starting positions of any president, one of the worst, a conclusion with no basis in reality (note I am not calling him one of the best presidents).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 03:26:26 PM
Tony Schwartz wrote the art of the deal

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2018/jan/18/fear-donald-trump-us-president-art-of-the-deal

"I alone can do it." These five extraordinary words kept coming back to me as I reflected on Donald Trump's first year as president of the US. He made this claim during his speech accepting the Republican nomination in July 2016. At the time, it struck me simply as a delusional expression of his grandiosity. Looking back, I also hear the plaintive wail of a desperate child who believes he is alone in the world with no one to care for him. "I alone can do it" is Trump's survival response to: "I must do it all alone."

There are two Trumps. The one he presents to the world is all bluster, bullying and certainty. The other, which I have long felt haunts his inner world, is the frightened child of a relentlessly critical and bullying father and a distant and disengaged mother who couldn't or wouldn't protect him.

Trump's temperament and his habits have hardened with age. He was always cartoonish, but compared with the man for whom I wrote The Art of the Deal 30 years ago, he is significantly angrier today: more reactive, deceitful, distracted, vindictive, impulsive and, above all, self-absorbed – assuming the last is possible.

Fear is the hidden through-line in Trump's life – fear of weakness, of inadequacy, of failure, of criticism and of insignificance. He has spent his life trying to outrun these fears by "winning" – as he puts it – and by redefining reality whenever the facts don't serve the narrative he seeks to create. It hasn't worked, but not for lack of effort.

In his first year in office, Trump has lambasted any facts he dislikes as "fake news", while making nearly 2,000 false or misleading claims of his own – more than five a day. In a single half-hour interview with the New York Times in late December, he made 24 such claims. This is the very definition of gaslighting – lying until you get people to doubt their own reality – and it is both frightening and disturbing. Because the office Trump now occupies makes him the most powerful man on Earth, his fears, and the way he manages them, have necessarily become ours.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 12:59:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/

Obama was still President when that campus began construction. I pass by it all the time. Don't tell me Trump is trying to take credit for it. What's it going to be next? Claiming that he got Bin Laden?

Nah, he will claim he was the man that paid four hundred million for four hostages, he will claim releasing multiple Al Queda top men for a traitor, he will claim the 10 trillion in eight years defecit, he will claim black people are worse off from he got in office until he left, the depletion of the funding for the armed services, 60 new genders, the corruption in the democratic party of which he donated money too, you know, that stuff, you can make Obama out to be what you want to kid, he was one of the most useless b**tards of all time in that office.

So instead of acknowledging or debating his actual point, the only response you have is another hyperbolic, deranged screed about Obama and the Dems and transgender people (I'd address your "points", but I already have, numerous times before, and all you do is hold your hands over your ears and go "la la la, I can't hear you!").

But oh yeah, you really do hate Trump!

I dont hate Trump, I think he is an arrogant AHole, Show me were I was deranged? Hyperbolic?

The problem with you liberals is you cannot give this man credit for one single thing he has done, all you do is blast away en masse and yet you lost, you cannot fathom losing to the likes of Trump so you attach him at every turn, even before he became President you were hating on him, I hate Clinton, I have made that quite clear so dont tell me who I hate and who I dont, I am very open about this shit and have been consistent in my disgust with the left in America, the far right is just as repugnant and there is no room for debate when you clones attack the right, frankly you all would be better off figuring out how to ensure the next democratic election is not rigged, why Trump got so much of the black vote and hispanic vote given his so called racism and how you all are going to turn it around in the fall and get Oprah and the Rock elected in 2020. :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Why would anyone EVER like Trump? He is a narcissistic liar with no self-awareness who doesn't and never has given a f**k who he hurts and used/uses naked prejudice and the most devisive rhetoric to gain power and has done so for years? You constantly say yourself you dislike him (you just did in this very post), yet you castigate others for doing the same! Make up your f**king mind! Or tell us why we SHOULD like him or at least not despise or even dislike him? Was he supposed to get a clean slate on taking office after the birther stuff, the Central Park Five, the Mexican rapists, the inauguration crowds and all the other lies and hateful bullshit that has emanated from his mouth?

Some like him because he was not a politician and some loved him because he was running against Hillary Clinton, if your lot had have been smart you would have let the Bern have a run at it, he would have beaten Trump in my opinion and I said I would have voted for him if I had a vote because he was the only decent human being running, and I said it on this very thread!

And on top of that he has an appalling and corrupt policy program, especially on the environment, the poor and immigration ( why the f**k are the Dreamers a bargaining chip??).

Yu are a liberal, you lot are as corrupt as all get out, Chicago, Detroit, San Fan, Hollywood anyone? Please.

And deranged - you throw together a few random, half-baked issues and use that to declare Obama, handed one of the most difficult starting positions of any president, one of the worst, a conclusion with no basis in reality (note I am not calling him one of the best presidents).

What I threw out were a few of the prez's fails, in my opinion he was a disasterous president, it is not deranged to say that, it is a fact in my reality in that to me he was f**king unvelievably awful, but what do I know, I just lived under his watch and saw first hand the absolute shit show he bossed.

Enough questions to me, let me ask you one question, what has Trump done a good job on since becoming President?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:43:02 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"

There are no Trumpkins on this site, no one like this fuckwit, he is one of yours after all, thanks for nothing.

As for this alleged affair, men and women do it all the time, to me the best president ever was Roosevelt, he was a known philanderer, and dont get me started on the St John F Kennedy, he loved orgys and was a depraved mofo, nobody cares about affairs these f**kers have or have had, they blindly follow left or right, and its not as if the left had any moral high ground to scurry to now is it?

Yes, but the left don't drone on and on about being the "values" party/voters or oppose gay rights because of, you know "the family".

And once again you're dishonestly trying to hide behind the tiny fig leaf that Trump was once a Democrat (so was Reagan BTW) as if that somehow negated your own party and movement rowing in behind his leadership, lies and policies. Shameless.

I dont have a party, I find there is plenty of scum in both parties, I have never claimed to be a republican, I have a lot of time for libertarianism and would consider myself a fiscal conservative, I was once a fan of the left, I simply saw through their bullshit over the years and the rise of pelosi and Clinton etc I really thought the US needed a strong centralist party, it has never had one but it badly needs one, or two or three.

I dont hide behind anything and am not ashamed of my political leanings, you are a clone, you are in the in crowd on here, you get to bash the right all day and give no credit to the president who has had successes but you do not have the balls to admit that, no, make that the character, the very thing that liberals are missing and the reason you lot are losing to Trump.

Yes stew, trying to deflect Trump onto the Dems is the very definition of hiding behind a fig leaf. It's completely dishonest, you've been called on it multiple times, and the only thing it does is damage your credibility.

As for clones, I think for myself. If others arrive at similar conclusions that reflects nothing more than multiple minds reaching bleeding obvious conclusions.

I certainly don't parrot conspiracy theories like you have been known to do here on many occasions. Now THAT is clone-like behaviour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:43:02 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"

There are no Trumpkins on this site, no one like this fuckwit, he is one of yours after all, thanks for nothing.

As for this alleged affair, men and women do it all the time, to me the best president ever was Roosevelt, he was a known philanderer, and dont get me started on the St John F Kennedy, he loved orgys and was a depraved mofo, nobody cares about affairs these f**kers have or have had, they blindly follow left or right, and its not as if the left had any moral high ground to scurry to now is it?

Yes, but the left don't drone on and on about being the "values" party/voters or oppose gay rights because of, you know "the family".

And once again you're dishonestly trying to hide behind the tiny fig leaf that Trump was once a Democrat (so was Reagan BTW) as if that somehow negated your own party and movement rowing in behind his leadership, lies and policies. Shameless.

I dont have a party, I find there is plenty of scum in both parties, I have never claimed to be a republican, I have a lot of time for libertarianism and would consider myself a fiscal conservative, I was once a fan of the left, I simply saw through their bullshit over the years and the rise of pelosi and Clinton etc I really thought the US needed a strong centralist party, it has never had one but it badly needs one, or two or three.

I dont hide behind anything and am not ashamed of my political leanings, you are a clone, you are in the in crowd on here, you get to bash the right all day and give no credit to the president who has had successes but you do not have the balls to admit that, no, make that the character, the very thing that liberals are missing and the reason you lot are losing to Trump.

Yes stew, trying to deflect Trump onto the Dems is the very definition of hiding behind a fig leaf. It's completely dishonest, you've been called on it multiple times, and the only thing it does is damage your credibility.
That might be right except I said it on here when he decided to run, long before he was President

As for clones, I think for myself. If others arrive at similar conclusions that reflects nothing more than multiple minds reaching bleeding obvious conclusions.

Does the same logic not apply to people who voted for Trump or is that realm reserved for only the left minded people such as yourself.

I certainly don't parrot conspiracy theories like you have been known to do here on many occasions. Now THAT is clone-like behaviour.

Conspiracy theories? Me? Oh you mean on Hillary being a murdering thieving evil vile bastard, well yeah........ I kinda have done that.

No can you answer my one question or not?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 04:46:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Yep, she was a truly terrible candidate.

Are you sure the electoral candidate can be said to benefit Dems though when they've lost two elections in the past 20 years on account of it and the GOP dominates the rural states which have more power per electoral vote?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 05:11:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 04:46:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Yep, she was a truly terrible candidate.

Are you sure the electoral candidate can be said to benefit Dems though when they've lost two elections in the past 20 years on account of it and the GOP dominates the rural states which have more power per electoral vote?

Hey question bhoy! You going to answer my question or no???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 05:17:44 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 05:11:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 04:46:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Yep, she was a truly terrible candidate.

Are you sure the electoral candidate can be said to benefit Dems though when they've lost two elections in the past 20 years on account of it and the GOP dominates the rural states which have more power per electoral vote?

Hey question bhoy! You going to answer my question or no???

I'm looking, but I don't see any question. Restate it please.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 05:19:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:43:02 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"

There are no Trumpkins on this site, no one like this fuckwit, he is one of yours after all, thanks for nothing.

As for this alleged affair, men and women do it all the time, to me the best president ever was Roosevelt, he was a known philanderer, and dont get me started on the St John F Kennedy, he loved orgys and was a depraved mofo, nobody cares about affairs these f**kers have or have had, they blindly follow left or right, and its not as if the left had any moral high ground to scurry to now is it?

Yes, but the left don't drone on and on about being the "values" party/voters or oppose gay rights because of, you know "the family".

And once again you're dishonestly trying to hide behind the tiny fig leaf that Trump was once a Democrat (so was Reagan BTW) as if that somehow negated your own party and movement rowing in behind his leadership, lies and policies. Shameless.

I dont have a party, I find there is plenty of scum in both parties, I have never claimed to be a republican, I have a lot of time for libertarianism and would consider myself a fiscal conservative, I was once a fan of the left, I simply saw through their bullshit over the years and the rise of pelosi and Clinton etc I really thought the US needed a strong centralist party, it has never had one but it badly needs one, or two or three.

I dont hide behind anything and am not ashamed of my political leanings, you are a clone, you are in the in crowd on here, you get to bash the right all day and give no credit to the president who has had successes but you do not have the balls to admit that, no, make that the character, the very thing that liberals are missing and the reason you lot are losing to Trump.

Yes stew, trying to deflect Trump onto the Dems is the very definition of hiding behind a fig leaf. It's completely dishonest, you've been called on it multiple times, and the only thing it does is damage your credibility.
That might be right except I said it on here when he decided to run, long before he was President

As for clones, I think for myself. If others arrive at similar conclusions that reflects nothing more than multiple minds reaching bleeding obvious conclusions.

Does the same logic not apply to people who voted for Trump or is that realm reserved for only the left minded people such as yourself.

I certainly don't parrot conspiracy theories like you have been known to do here on many occasions. Now THAT is clone-like behaviour.

Conspiracy theories? Me? Oh you mean on Hillary being a murdering thieving evil vile b**tard, well yeah........ I kinda have done that.

No can you answer my one question or not?

Yes, you have. You posted some memorable tripe straight off the most feverish swamps of the lunatic far right during the run-up to the election, including the Vince Foster stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 05:24:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 05:19:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:43:02 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"

There are no Trumpkins on this site, no one like this fuckwit, he is one of yours after all, thanks for nothing.

As for this alleged affair, men and women do it all the time, to me the best president ever was Roosevelt, he was a known philanderer, and dont get me started on the St John F Kennedy, he loved orgys and was a depraved mofo, nobody cares about affairs these f**kers have or have had, they blindly follow left or right, and its not as if the left had any moral high ground to scurry to now is it?

Yes, but the left don't drone on and on about being the "values" party/voters or oppose gay rights because of, you know "the family".

And once again you're dishonestly trying to hide behind the tiny fig leaf that Trump was once a Democrat (so was Reagan BTW) as if that somehow negated your own party and movement rowing in behind his leadership, lies and policies. Shameless.

I dont have a party, I find there is plenty of scum in both parties, I have never claimed to be a republican, I have a lot of time for libertarianism and would consider myself a fiscal conservative, I was once a fan of the left, I simply saw through their bullshit over the years and the rise of pelosi and Clinton etc I really thought the US needed a strong centralist party, it has never had one but it badly needs one, or two or three.

I dont hide behind anything and am not ashamed of my political leanings, you are a clone, you are in the in crowd on here, you get to bash the right all day and give no credit to the president who has had successes but you do not have the balls to admit that, no, make that the character, the very thing that liberals are missing and the reason you lot are losing to Trump.

Yes stew, trying to deflect Trump onto the Dems is the very definition of hiding behind a fig leaf. It's completely dishonest, you've been called on it multiple times, and the only thing it does is damage your credibility.
That might be right except I said it on here when he decided to run, long before he was President

As for clones, I think for myself. If others arrive at similar conclusions that reflects nothing more than multiple minds reaching bleeding obvious conclusions.

Does the same logic not apply to people who voted for Trump or is that realm reserved for only the left minded people such as yourself.

I certainly don't parrot conspiracy theories like you have been known to do here on many occasions. Now THAT is clone-like behaviour.

Conspiracy theories? Me? Oh you mean on Hillary being a murdering thieving evil vile b**tard, well yeah........ I kinda have done that.

No can you answer my one question or not?

Yes, you have. You posted some memorable tripe straight off the most feverish swamps of the lunatic far right during the run-up to the election, including the Vince Foster stuff.

'Memorable tripe' Oh dear oh dear oh dear, I do hope I did not offend any of your sensibilities, now answer my question kid, it's not hard, there is plenty there for you to comment on!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 05:29:17 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 05:24:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 05:19:20 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:43:02 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26219967_1572294769524529_3759923159861680703_n.jpg?oh=58efec5cd0d325069ae649bc7976d2d2&oe=5AF29F9E)

Let's hear the Trumpkins' latest defense of this one. Take it away, Whitey. Don't tell me, it's "fake news?"

There are no Trumpkins on this site, no one like this fuckwit, he is one of yours after all, thanks for nothing.

As for this alleged affair, men and women do it all the time, to me the best president ever was Roosevelt, he was a known philanderer, and dont get me started on the St John F Kennedy, he loved orgys and was a depraved mofo, nobody cares about affairs these f**kers have or have had, they blindly follow left or right, and its not as if the left had any moral high ground to scurry to now is it?

Yes, but the left don't drone on and on about being the "values" party/voters or oppose gay rights because of, you know "the family".

And once again you're dishonestly trying to hide behind the tiny fig leaf that Trump was once a Democrat (so was Reagan BTW) as if that somehow negated your own party and movement rowing in behind his leadership, lies and policies. Shameless.

I dont have a party, I find there is plenty of scum in both parties, I have never claimed to be a republican, I have a lot of time for libertarianism and would consider myself a fiscal conservative, I was once a fan of the left, I simply saw through their bullshit over the years and the rise of pelosi and Clinton etc I really thought the US needed a strong centralist party, it has never had one but it badly needs one, or two or three.

I dont hide behind anything and am not ashamed of my political leanings, you are a clone, you are in the in crowd on here, you get to bash the right all day and give no credit to the president who has had successes but you do not have the balls to admit that, no, make that the character, the very thing that liberals are missing and the reason you lot are losing to Trump.

Yes stew, trying to deflect Trump onto the Dems is the very definition of hiding behind a fig leaf. It's completely dishonest, you've been called on it multiple times, and the only thing it does is damage your credibility.
That might be right except I said it on here when he decided to run, long before he was President

As for clones, I think for myself. If others arrive at similar conclusions that reflects nothing more than multiple minds reaching bleeding obvious conclusions.

Does the same logic not apply to people who voted for Trump or is that realm reserved for only the left minded people such as yourself.

I certainly don't parrot conspiracy theories like you have been known to do here on many occasions. Now THAT is clone-like behaviour.

Conspiracy theories? Me? Oh you mean on Hillary being a murdering thieving evil vile b**tard, well yeah........ I kinda have done that.

No can you answer my one question or not?

Yes, you have. You posted some memorable tripe straight off the most feverish swamps of the lunatic far right during the run-up to the election, including the Vince Foster stuff.

'Memorable tripe' Oh dear oh dear oh dear, I do hope I did not offend any of your sensibilities, now answer my question kid, it's not hard, there is plenty there for you to comment on!

1. My sensibilities weren't offended stew. You only let yourself down posting that rubbish.

2. I've looked and I've no clue what you're on about that has been unaddressed, so be a man and not a bullshitter and type out or copy and past the question so I can give you the response you seem to be craving.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Look, everyone! There goes Whitey "not defending Trump" again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 07:42:01 PM
The GOP is dying. Trump is a sideshow.

Frum
https://youtu.be/ddv8pPFeeOM

Joe
 https://youtu.be/O5uBt8tQ8QE



Norman Ornstein

@NormOrnstein

Republicans had every opportunity the past six months and more to re-authorize CHIP. They held back to manipulate cynically 9 million children for their own political benefit. Unconscionable and cruel and unacceptable.



NBC Politics

@NBCPolitics

·

20h

Bob Dole at 1996 RNC: "If there's anyone who has mistakenly attached themselves to our party in the belief that we are not open to citizens of every race and religion...the exits, which are clearly marked, are for you to walk out of as I stand this ground without compromise."



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 08:17:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Look, everyone! There goes Whitey "not defending Trump" again.


What has Trump done right since taking office Eamon, I asked that j70 feller but he is not answering my question, maybe you can, I doubt it but maybe you can.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 08:37:25 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 08:17:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Look, everyone! There goes Whitey "not defending Trump" again.


What has Trump done right since taking office Eamon, I asked that j70 feller but he is not answering my question, maybe you can, I doubt it but maybe you can.

So finally you post the f**king question, even if only to have a hollow dig. Well done stew, especially for a lad who's defining characteristic is to post inflammatory or half-baked nonsense and then ignore anything that calls it into question and post it again, undeterred, the following week (a bit like a creationist).

So what has Trump done right...

The job and market trends from Obama have continued under him. Whether things ultimately improve in the long term remains to be seen.

He dropped the tax rate for corporations (even if most of them didn't pay it anyway).

There you go stew. That's two things. Which don't offset the rest of his agenda or his repugnant rhetoric and behaviour and childlike lies and dishonesty.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 18, 2018, 08:39:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Look, everyone! There goes Whitey "not defending Trump" again.

As bad as Trump is (and he's terrible) he was a heck of a lot more palatable to the swing voters in the swing states than what the Democrats put up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 08:52:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 08:39:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Look, everyone! There goes Whitey "not defending Trump" again.

As bad as Trump is (and he's terrible) he was a heck of a lot more palatable to the swing voters in the swing states than what the Democrats put up.
Trump is a fraud. He was a shit candidate  here is a selection of stuff written about him.


Globe f**ker
Stoking fear
Everything negotiable.
Craven cynical corrupt
Chaotic governance
not i n touch w reality.  Expression of spiritual blackout.
Brutal father and mother with whom no relationship. Hunger for love. Greed Lust envy so visible.
a creature of lies, rants, scams, and rages.

A Day trader
-Disregard for truth
-Self interest
-Inability to admit he is wrong
Consistent line is unilateralism
Blusterer thin skinned charlatan, sexual harasser bigot
Naive ignorant detached from reality
Sense of grievance
NRA and Evangelicals
20 Jan national day of patriotic devotion
Stewart Butterfield sez every action gratuitously evil

He respects authoritarians
Ignorant coarse boastful cruel
Bullying greed showing off misogyny third grade theatrics
Incompetence and broken promises
Instinct when criticised is attack, vilify and suppress
Unpredictable temperamental impetuous
White supremacist kleptocracy
Vindictive chaos
Impulsive thin skinned combative
Dishonest bravado
Lying fantasist



Casual humiliation
Erratic, irascible ill informed dishonest
Nihilistic
Dominates news like fart dominates a car
Voraciously aggressive
Capricious egocentric volatile
Scant accountability n contempt for rules
Propagator of mayhem
Bigotry racism homophobia anti intellectualism calculated religious absolutism big data autocracy media hatred
Easy to surprise ppl if you just make shit up.
Fear mongering
Gonzo president
Donaeld the unread twitter
Spicer the MC Escher of bullshit
Alec Baldwin sez playing him is unpleasant cos he is angry and frustrated
Americas Idi Amin
Not self possessed
They can't write policies that make sense, they can't implement policy, they can't get their stories straight and they can't close the deal.
Reaction to being challenged is belligerence
High tolerance for chaos
He said he wd bomb the shit out.of ISIS


Trump's dreams preceding his own unexpected ascent were, quite obviously, the opposite: he wanted to be the man on the gilded throne, with all the cameras trained on him, transfixed by the spectacle of power being wielded. 
eternal, bottomless ego gratification
Breaking news fatigue.  not i n touch w reality.  Expression of spiritual blackout.

   Eclipse of Integrity honesty decency .  Disregard of rule of law. Expression of worst of American culture. 
 No mention of human rights as president makes U-turn from campaign rhetoric on Islam

Trump is two ends of a bollox. That video of him is cat, but worse than pushing out to the front is the way he sticks his chin up in the air and acts like a pompous dick afterwards. He has a face you would never, ever get tired of punching.

The briefing papers McMaster's team drew up before this trip had to be condensed to a few bullet points on a single page for each issue, and even then Trump grew bored of reviewing them before departure, and groused about how long the whole excursion would take.

There is no right and wrong . There is winning and losing
A hurt boy who wants to be loved

He lives in deficit. A black hole. All he wants is for people to love him. Nothing to sustain him inside .
Psychological influences are authoritarian.
Never read a book.
Short attention span.
Cynical and one dimensional
I do it to do it but could never get enough attention.

Where are all the leaks coming from? the fact that they keep coming is a sign of the state of near collapse of the White House staff. It's not an exaggeration to say that Trump has the most unhappy staff ever, with some feeling a higher duty to warn the public about what they see as a danger to the country.

From the stories that emanate from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue the impression one gets is that Trump is a nearly impossible person to work for: he screams at his staff when they tell him something he doesn't want to hear; he screams at them as he watches television news for hours on end and sees stories about himself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 18, 2018, 09:00:01 PM
Great

Now put up Hillarys list
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 09:00:01 PM
Great

Now put up Hillarys list
Trouser suit
Zionist
Wall St funded
Neoliberal
Warmonger
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 18, 2018, 09:14:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 08:37:25 PM


The job and market trends from Obama have continued under him. Whether things ultimately improve in the long term remains to be seen.

He dropped the tax rate for corporations (even if most of them didn't pay it anyway).

There you go stew. That's two things. Which don't offset the rest of his agenda or his repugnant rhetoric and behaviour and childlike lies and dishonesty.

So, just to be clear. One of your two things is not break something that was working perfectly fine before he got there?

And your second point is that he added 2 trillion dollars to the deficit, while at the same time increasing the cost of living for the poor and middle class. On the flip of that trade he significantly reduced tax for the top 0.0001% and got another bunch of fools to buy the trickle down economics bull shit.

Bollocks

The thing that he has done well is actually draw attention to the need for an upgrade to the US Infrastructure, despite his actual approach to solving the problem being a PFI plan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 18, 2018, 09:34:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 08:37:25 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 08:17:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Look, everyone! There goes Whitey "not defending Trump" again.


What has Trump done right since taking office Eamon, I asked that j70 feller but he is not answering my question, maybe you can, I doubt it but maybe you can.

So finally you post the f**king question, even if only to have a hollow dig. Well done stew, especially for a lad who's defining characteristic is to post inflammatory or half-baked nonsense and then ignore anything that calls it into question and post it again, undeterred, the following week (a bit like a creationist).

So what has Trump done right...

The job and market trends from Obama have continued under him. Whether things ultimately improve in the long term remains to be seen.

He dropped the tax rate for corporations (even if most of them didn't pay it anyway).

There you go stew. That's two things. Which don't offset the rest of his agenda or his repugnant rhetoric and behaviour and childlike lies and dishonesty.

f**k you are an arrogant ballix!  :)

You are in fact giving Obama credit for the job market situation, not Trump, so a big nothing burger there!

The tax decrease according to you is hardly impacted by Trumps decision due to the (fact) most companies dont pay it anyway! Another nothing burger.

You are a hater an absolute hater, as am I when it comes to Clinton and the far left AND far right, the difference is I can give credit to Obama were it is due, you are so far gone you can give Trump credit for absolutely nothing he has done, this attitude may have a teensy weensie wee bit to do why you blinkered liberals lost an election you should have won in a canter! Dont ever change kids. )

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on January 18, 2018, 09:49:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 02:18:57 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 18, 2018, 01:18:48 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 17, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 17, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Apple investing 350 billion in us economy in next 5 years .

Really? Where'd you get that figure from?

This article says "Apple said it expected to invest over $30 billion in the United States over the next 5 years, and would create 20,000 jobs through hiring at existing campuses and through opening a new campus."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0117/934076-apple-to-bring-home-some-of-cash-pile-under-new-tax-law/
30 billion wouldn't get u much in Silicon Valley

Ah FFS will you stop speading fake news.....theres 2 parts to this

(1) Theyre going to pay $38 B in taxes on the profits they will be repatriating

(2) They are going to INVEST $350 B over the next 5 years

This seems to provide a breakdown - it's 350bn SPEND including 30bn capital investment:


Here is how that $350bn adds up:

At least $275bn of spending with US suppliers at upwards of $55bn per year for five years,
+$38bn one-off tax bill (estimated) for repatriation of overseas profits,
+$30bn capex on new campus, data centres etc,
+$5bn advanced manufacturing fund,
=$350bn


https://www.ft.com/content/01eeec9a-01f7-3ca1-b108-ad4943c81785

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 09:54:58 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 09:34:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 08:37:25 PM
Quote from: stew on January 18, 2018, 08:17:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As bad as Trump is he still beat the pants (suit) off Hillary....

Think about it for a moment....all the money she raised and spent, the lame stream media firmly in her corner, the Electoral College system absolutely benefiting Democrats....and she still couldn't beat him

Look, everyone! There goes Whitey "not defending Trump" again.


What has Trump done right since taking office Eamon, I asked that j70 feller but he is not answering my question, maybe you can, I doubt it but maybe you can.

So finally you post the f**king question, even if only to have a hollow dig. Well done stew, especially for a lad who's defining characteristic is to post inflammatory or half-baked nonsense and then ignore anything that calls it into question and post it again, undeterred, the following week (a bit like a creationist).

So what has Trump done right...

The job and market trends from Obama have continued under him. Whether things ultimately improve in the long term remains to be seen.

He dropped the tax rate for corporations (even if most of them didn't pay it anyway).

There you go stew. That's two things. Which don't offset the rest of his agenda or his repugnant rhetoric and behaviour and childlike lies and dishonesty.

f**k you are an arrogant ballix!  :)

You are in fact giving Obama credit for the job market situation, not Trump, so a big nothing burger there!

The tax decrease according to you is hardly impacted by Trumps decision due to the (fact) most companies dont pay it anyway! Another nothing burger.

You are a hater an absolute hater, as am I when it comes to Clinton and the far left AND far right, the difference is I can give credit to Obama were it is due, you are so far gone you can give Trump credit for absolutely nothing he has done, this attitude may have a teensy weensie wee bit to do why you blinkered liberals lost an election you should have won in a canter! Dont ever change kids. )

I believe in giving credit where its due, not bullshit.

We posted the job and stock trend graphs here a couple of weeks back. Feel free to post them again and show us the departure from the long terms trends under Trump to date.

As for the corporate tax rate decrease, I'm in favour. There has been bipartisan support for a lower rate in recent years to make the US market more attractive, with the GOP obviously favouring a lower rate than the Dems. I don't have much of an issue with the rate they settled on. Nevertheless, it is a FACT that a lot of companies availed of loopholes and breaks to pay rates that were much lower than the standing rate. If you want to dispute that, knock yourself out.

No hatred here stew.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 18, 2018, 10:12:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 09:00:01 PM
Great

Now put up Hillarys list
Trouser suit
Zionist
Wall St funded
Neoliberal
Warmonger


You forgot a few.


Perjurer
Deleter of suponeaed emails
Forensic wiper of server
Attacker of women
Enabler of sexual assault and rape
Cheater in debates
Liar
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
Arguing with Trumpkins who can't even bring themselves to admit that they're defending Trump is just getting tedious at this point.

Can we point this thread in a more interesting direction?

How about the Mueller investigation? My take on it is that Democrats are in danger of overplaying their hand with Russiagate in the same way Republicans did with Benghazigate. Countless investigations into Clinton and nothing was there, but they kept on banging on about it because they wanted something to be there. They wanted to keep re-investigating in the hope that a conspiracy would emerge.

Are Democrats getting their hopes up too much with the Mueller probe? Setting themselves up for disappointment because impeachment is so unlikely? My hope is that the investigation drags out beyond the next mid-terms and helps to depress GOP support and let us take back the house and senate, stopping Trump in his tracks for the rest of his one and only term. As soon as the investigation concludes, we've got nothing but the Twitter controversy of the day, so it's in our interest for it to drag out as long as possible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2018, 10:45:45 PM
Personally, I've little invested in the Mueller probe. Just hope it is all done honestly.

Trump and his support have gone so far off the reservation at this point that you might have to agree with him about his gunning people down on Fifth Ave and not losing support. I mean, there are apparently FOUR porn stars in the mix now from his alleged activities while his wife was home breastfeeding! Where does this freak show end? Every week we are crossing what used to be career-ending lines! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 18, 2018, 10:47:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 10:12:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 09:00:01 PM
Great

Now put up Hillarys list
Trouser suit
Zionist
Wall St funded
Neoliberal
Warmonger


You forgot a few.


Perjurer
Deleter of suponeaed emails
Forensic wiper of server
Attacker of women
Enabler of sexual assault and rape
Cheater in debates
Liar

Why are the right still obsessed with Clinton ... she lost get over it. She has no relevance in US politics anymore so why do people keep mentioning her when others are slagging the President??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 18, 2018, 11:44:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 10:45:45 PM
Personally, I've little invested in the Mueller probe. Just hope it is all done honestly.

Trump and his support have gone so far off the reservation at this point that you might have to agree with him about his gunning people down on Fifth Ave and not losing support. I mean, there are apparently FOUR porn stars in the mix now from his alleged activities while his wife was home breastfeeding! Where does this freak show end? Every week we are crossing what used to be career-ending lines! ;D

Does it concern you that the founder of Fusion GPS had dinner with the Russian Attorney both the night before and the night after the infamous Trump Tower meeting?

If I were a betting man I'd say that the Clinton campaign in conjunction with some rogue elements of the FBI set a honey trap for the Trump campaign. Hence the "insurance policy" that one FBI/DOJ referred to
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 19, 2018, 12:18:59 AM
I wonder if we could set up some sort of "swear jar" type of thing where Whitey has to deposit a dollar every time he changes the subject to Hillary Clinton. We'd all be quite rich.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 19, 2018, 12:21:11 AM
Can anyone explain nothing burger?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2018, 12:35:46 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 19, 2018, 12:18:59 AM
I wonder if we could set up some sort of "swear jar" type of thing where Whitey has to deposit a dollar every time he changes the subject to Hillary Clinton. We'd all be quite rich.

its all connected......the whole "Russian Collusion" hoax is how the Democrats are trying to explain away Hillarys defeat.  I may be wrong, but from my vantage point there was no collusion.....there was contact, as there was between the Clinton campaign and certain Russians.

The whole "collusion" nonsense is how the Democrats are trying to undermine Trumps legitimacy and Hillary and her campaign are bang smack involved in all of that

As long as theres talk about collusion, Hillary will be part of the conversation because her campaign funded a false dossier that led to surveillance and wiretapping
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 19, 2018, 01:12:23 AM
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f0578cf9e89cfce724255d5ab10df86f/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2018, 03:06:46 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 19, 2018, 01:12:23 AM
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f0578cf9e89cfce724255d5ab10df86f/tenor.gif)

Well, I guess when Mueller releases his report well know whos right and whos wrong
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 19, 2018, 04:48:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
Arguing with Trumpkins who can't even bring themselves to admit that they're defending Trump is just getting tedious at this point.

Can we point this thread in a more interesting direction?

How about the Mueller investigation? My take on it is that Democrats are in danger of overplaying their hand with Russiagate in the same way Republicans did with Benghazigate. Countless investigations into Clinton and nothing was there, but they kept on banging on about it because they wanted something to be there. They wanted to keep re-investigating in the hope that a conspiracy would emerge.

Are Democrats getting their hopes up too much with the Mueller probe? Setting themselves up for disappointment because impeachment is so unlikely? My hope is that the investigation drags out beyond the next mid-terms and helps to depress GOP support and let us take back the house and senate, stopping Trump in his tracks for the rest of his one and only term. As soon as the investigation concludes, we've got nothing but the Twitter controversy of the day, so it's in our interest for it to drag out as long as possible.
U think there is something there. Bannon refused to say anything the other day saying he was muzzled by the White House .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 19, 2018, 08:41:34 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 19, 2018, 12:21:11 AM
Can anyone explain nothing burger?

I think it's like an air biscuit. A bit of a smell but no substance  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 19, 2018, 09:27:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 10:12:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 09:00:01 PM
Great

Now put up Hillarys list
Trouser suit
Zionist
Wall St funded
Neoliberal
Warmonger


You forgot a few.


Perjurer
Deleter of suponeaed emails
Forensic wiper of server
Attacker of women
Enabler of sexual assault and rape
Cheater in debates
Liar

Whitey dont forget fixer of elections ( I would add murderer however she is never going to be charged for the VF murder)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on January 19, 2018, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: stew on January 19, 2018, 09:27:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 10:12:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 09:00:01 PM
Great

Now put up Hillarys list
Trouser suit
Zionist
Wall St funded
Neoliberal
Warmonger


You forgot a few.


Perjurer
Deleter of suponeaed emails
Forensic wiper of server
Attacker of women
Enabler of sexual assault and rape
Cheater in debates
Liar

Whitey dont forget fixer of elections ( I would add murderer however she is never going to be charged for the VF murder)

Stew, you forgot 'Paedo ring organiser in Pizza shop basements'

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 19, 2018, 11:00:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 11:44:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 10:45:45 PM
Personally, I've little invested in the Mueller probe. Just hope it is all done honestly.

Trump and his support have gone so far off the reservation at this point that you might have to agree with him about his gunning people down on Fifth Ave and not losing support. I mean, there are apparently FOUR porn stars in the mix now from his alleged activities while his wife was home breastfeeding! Where does this freak show end? Every week we are crossing what used to be career-ending lines! ;D

Does it concern you that the founder of Fusion GPS had dinner with the Russian Attorney both the night before and the night after the infamous Trump Tower meeting?

If I were a betting man I'd say that the Clinton campaign in conjunction with some rogue elements of the FBI set a honey trap for the Trump campaign. Hence the "insurance policy" that one FBI/DOJ referred to

"Concern"??? Depends what comes out about it.

I've seen nothing in the news about "dinners" though.

Just a Fox News report saying they were in a court room together beforehand and in each other's presence afterwards, whatever THAT means. They didn't supply any context.

Surely the GOP committee members grilled the GPS rep if there is anything to this??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2018, 11:32:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2018, 11:00:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 18, 2018, 11:44:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2018, 10:45:45 PM
Personally, I've little invested in the Mueller probe. Just hope it is all done honestly.

Trump and his support have gone so far off the reservation at this point that you might have to agree with him about his gunning people down on Fifth Ave and not losing support. I mean, there are apparently FOUR porn stars in the mix now from his alleged activities while his wife was home breastfeeding! Where does this freak show end? Every week we are crossing what used to be career-ending lines! ;D

Does it concern you that the founder of Fusion GPS had dinner with the Russian Attorney both the night before and the night after the infamous Trump Tower meeting?

If I were a betting man I'd say that the Clinton campaign in conjunction with some rogue elements of the FBI set a honey trap for the Trump campaign. Hence the "insurance policy" that one FBI/DOJ referred to

"Concern"??? Depends what comes out about it.

I've seen nothing in the news about "dinners" though.

Just a Fox News report saying they were in a court room together beforehand and in each other's presence afterwards, whatever THAT means. They didn't supply any context.

Surely the GOP committee members grilled the GPS rep if there is anything to this??

Theres a lot of chatter on the blogs this morning about some FBI\DOJ memo.  This could get interesting if theres substance behind it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2018, 12:53:28 PM
Hiring the best people indeed

QuoteTrump administration appointee Carl Higbie resigned Thursday as chief of external affairs for the federal government's volunteer service organization after a CNN KFile review of racist, sexist, anti-Muslim and anti-LGBT comments he made on the radio.

"Effective immediately, Carl Higbie has resigned as Chief of External Affairs at CNCS," Samantha Jo Warfield, a spokesperson for CNCS, said in a statement.

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Higbie's resignation.

Higbie, a former Navy SEAL and conservative media personality, was a surrogate for Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign, appearing on cable news and serving as the spokesman for the Trump-aligned Great America PAC

Some of his choice comments


Quote"I told this story the other day on my show. Somebody who lives in my condo association that has five kids, and it's her and her husband with the five kids and the mother, the grandmother of the kids, and they don't have jobs, they're there all the time -- I bet you can guess what color they are -- and they have no job," he said.

QuoteSpeaking on 'Sound of Freedom' in December 2013, Higbie, while recounting a time he placed an advertisement to give away free firewood, said "the black race" had "lax" morals. He added that black women think "breeding is a form of government employment."
"Only one person was actually cordial to me," Higbie said. "Every other black person was rude. They wanted me to either load the wood, completely split it for them or some sort of you know assistance in labor. Now, mind you the ad was for free firewood, come take it all you want. And I believe that this translates directly into the culture that is breeding this welfare and the high percentage of people on welfare in the black race. It's a lax of morality."

He added later, "We're promoting birth control to a black woman because of the incredibly high rate of children born out of wedlock that are under-cared for or not cared for at all. The taxpayers are tired of supporting government checks going to these people who think that breeding is a form of employment. I'm sorry if black people are the majority of the targeted audience. They are, statistically they are."

In January 2013, on Sound of Freedom, Higbie said he was bothered that black Americans call themselves African-Americans when they had never been to Africa.

"The whole African-American thing gets me whipped up because it's like 99% -- and I'm paraphrasing here -- of people who write down African-American have never been to Africa," Higbie said. "So barring dual citizenship, you're American or you're African, but you're not both. I don't care what you think. That's another thing that just sets me off."

In February 2013, one of Higbie's guests spoke about teaching in an urban area.
"An urban area, you mean the ghetto?" interjected Higbie.

Quote"People say, 'you know, you're so harsh,'" Higbie said on Warrior Talk Radio in August 2014. "I was called an Islamophobe and I was like, 'no, no, no, no, no, I'm not afraid of them. I don't like them. Big difference.' And they were like, 'well, you're racist.' I was like, fine if that's the definition of it, then I guess I am.'"

Speaking on "Sound of Freedom" in June 2013, Higbie said he didn't like Muslims because he hated their religious ideology.

"Go back to your Muslim shithole and go crap in your hands and bang little boys on Thursday nights," Higbie said. "I just don't like Muslim people. People always rip me a new one for that. Carl, you're racist, you can't, you're sexist. I'm like Jesus Christ. I just don't like Muslim people because their ideology sucks."

"Well people are like, 'well, you can't hate somebody just for being Muslim,'" Higbie added. "It's like, yeah, I can. Do you hate people who rape little boys? They say, 'oh, of course. They're just terrible people.' Well, yeah, most Muslims believe that to have sex with men is OK, which I don't like it all. But second off, it's the ideology of a child molester. The ideology of a Muslim is what I don't like. They are screwed up in the head and it makes, pisses me off."

QuoteHigbie derided members of the military suffering from severe PTSD as having "a weak mind" and said 75% of those afflicted were either lying or milking it for federal money.

"Yeah I'm a gonna go out on limb here and say, a lot of people are going to disagree with this comment," Higbie said on Sound of Freedom in February 2013. "But severe PTSD, where guys are bugging out and doing violent acts, is a trait of a weak mind. Now things like (military member) Brandon, where he was legitimately blown up and a loud noise makes him on edge -- completely understandable, but when someone performs an act of violence that is a, it is a weak mind. That is a crazy person, and the fact that they're trying to hide it behind PTSD makes me want to vomit."

"I'd say 75% of people with PTSD don't actually have it, and they're either milking something for a little extra money in disability or they're just, they honestly are just lying," Higbie said in August 2014, as a guest on an Internet radio show. "Twenty-five percent legitimately do have problems. They have bad dreams. They can't cope. They have problems with noises and things like that. And I really think there are people that cannot deal with the stress of combat and some people can."

QuoteIn a February 2013 episode of "Sound of Freedom," Higbie said American citizens with guns should be allowed to go to the border to shoot undocumented immigrants crossing into the US.

"What's so wrong with wanting to put up a fence and saying, 'hey, everybody with a gun, if you want to go shoot people coming across our border illegally, you can do it fo' free,'" Higbie said. "And you can do it on your own, and you'll be under the command of the, you know, National Guard unit or a Border Patrol, I think stick a fence six feet high with signs on it in both English and Spanish and it says 'if you cross this border, this is the American border, you cross it, we're going to shoot you.'"

"You cross my border, I will shoot you in the face," Higbie added. "I will go down there. I'll volunteer to go down there and stand on that border for, I don't know, a week or so at a time and that'll be my civil duty. I'll volunteer to do it."

QuoteIn June 2013 on Sound of Freedom, Higbie called California Sen. Dianne Feinstein a "bitch" whose head he would like to smack into House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi's.
"Nothing gets me going like Ted Cruz, when he went off on the Feinstein Bitch about the Second Amendment and he put her in her place," Higbie said. "That was just fantastic. I can't stand that woman. She's another one. Her and Pelosi. I'd love to just take both their heads and smack them together a couple of times."

QuoteIn May 2013 on Sound of Freedom, Higbie said he did not like gay people.

"Rhode Island, land of more liberals, has just OK'ed, gay marriage," Higbie said. "Congratuf'in'lations, you suck, Rhode Island. Why would you do that? Go ahead and twist the knife a little, little bit more. I mean, you are breaking the morals, the moral fiber of our country. You know, I don't like gay people. I just don't."

Later in the show, Higbie elaborated on his views.

"I talk about this in my book, you know, I was, I was molested by a gay guy when I was a young kid and that kind of set the precedence for me. So I, I just, I really don't care for them. You know what, you want to be gay? Fine. Do it over in your own corner," he said. "If I was president of the United States, I wouldn't make laws saying you can't be gay because I believe that's your right. So go over there, be gay, don't march down in the middle of the street and your drag outfit being fairies and things like that. Don't throw it in my face. Don't make me like it because I don't -- do it on your own. Do it over there and let it be your thing."

QuoteHigbie frequently questioned the authenticity of President Barack Obama's birth certificate. Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

In 2015, Higbie spoke for nearly an hour with "Where's Obama's Birth Certificate" radio.

"This birth certificate thing," Higbie said. "Sure, absolutely legitimate claim. You want to know if this, where was this guy born. That's a legitimate question." Higbie added later that Obama's birth certificate was "pixelated."

In March 2013 on Sound of Freedom, Higbe called Obama "the Muslim who was born in Kenya -- don't even get me started on that."

He later added, "Harvard, up in Boston, he put on his fricking application that he was born in Kenya."

Claims that Obama was born in Kenya or that he forged his documents are false.

QuoteIn June 2016, while appearing as a guest on Global Patriot Radio, Higbie said people who receive government assistance shouldn't be allowed to vote in the subsequent election.

"If you have taken any benefit, if you have elected to take any benefit from the government at any given time during any election cycle, you do not get to vote at the subsequent election," he said. "Because now you have people voting for a living. They don't have to work, and if you want to solve them now -- it's very hard to get something like this past, I'll be honest -- but if you pass something like that, what you would see is, you would see people who aren't contributing to the system, not voting for the system and you'll have a massive slide to the right in this country."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 19, 2018, 01:10:34 PM
Those quotes can't be real?? :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2018, 01:23:28 PM
All here - knock yourself out

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/politics/kfile-carl-higbie-on-the-radio/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 19, 2018, 08:28:02 PM
"Right now, in a number of states, the laws allow a baby to be born from his or her mother's womb in the ninth month. It is wrong. It has to change."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 19, 2018, 09:08:44 PM
There might be a shutdown this weekend. The GOP is toxic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 19, 2018, 10:03:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2018, 09:08:44 PM
There might be a shutdown this weekend. The GOP is toxic
what does that mean to the ordinary man on the street ? I don't need much from the government. Dems choosing illegal residents over citizens
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2018, 03:53:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2018, 10:03:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2018, 09:08:44 PM
There might be a shutdown this weekend. The GOP is toxic
what does that mean to the ordinary man on the street ? I don't need much from the government. Dems choosing illegal residents over citizens

Tax season starts in a week or two. People need passports. People like to visit national parks. People need social security. The CDC is busy collecting data on a severe flu season. And so on and on. Just because you personally need nothing at the moment doesn't mean it's an irrelevance.

The Dems are right to draw a line in the sand (along with some Republicans) on this issue, which has broad public support (do you really think kids who have lived almost their entire lives on the States should be left for months wondering what the f**k is going to become of them, unable to plan their future?). They had a bipartisan deal last week which Trump agreed to sign until Miller and the rest got to him. He has been changing his mind on what he wants by the hour. McConnell promised a vote on DACA last time around, but due to Trump being all over the place, he is afraid to bring it to the floor. The CHIP thing is a pure stunt. It would easily pass with overwhelming bipartisan support as a stand alone bill, but McConnell wants to use it as leverage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 20, 2018, 05:48:59 AM
Well Trump did say he would run the government like his businesses. It only took a year to shut down the government.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 05:54:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2018, 03:53:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2018, 10:03:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2018, 09:08:44 PM
There might be a shutdown this weekend. The GOP is toxic
what does that mean to the ordinary man on the street ? I don't need much from the government. Dems choosing illegal residents over citizens

Tax season starts in a week or two. People need passports. People like to visit national parks. People need social security. The CDC is busy collecting data on a severe flu season. And so on and on. Just because you personally need nothing at the moment doesn't mean it's an irrelevance.

The Dems are right to draw a line in the sand (along with some Republicans) on this issue, which has broad public support (do you really think kids who have lived almost their entire lives on the States should be left for months wondering what the f**k is going to become of them, unable to plan their future?). They had a bipartisan deal last week which Trump agreed to sign until Miller and the rest got to him. He has been changing his mind on what he wants by the hour. McConnell promised a vote on DACA last time around, but due to Trump being all over the place, he is afraid to bring it to the floor. The CHIP thing is a pure stunt. It would easily pass with overwhelming bipartisan support as a stand alone bill, but McConnell wants to use it as leverage.

It looks like the big issue on the GOP side regarding DACA is white nationalism.

@FoxNews

.@MarkSteynOnline on DACA: "In Arizona, a majority of the grade school children now are Hispanic. That means Arizona's future is as a Hispanic society. That means in effect, the border has moved north." #Tucker

This is polarisation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 12:51:15 PM
Also kind of funny as Arizona was actually part of Mexico, the old border moved north and only became a state in 1912...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 12:51:15 PM
Also kind of funny as Arizona was actually part of Mexico, the old border moved north and only became a state in 1912...
I was thinking the same thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 12:51:15 PM
Also kind of funny as Arizona was actually part of Mexico, the old border moved north and only became a state in 1912...
I was thinking the same thing
no wonder flake and McCain are so sore on trump ,just worrying about re-election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 20, 2018, 03:21:15 PM
The GOP will probably now try to blame the Democrats for the shutdown. Even though it's a Republican House, Republican Senate and a Republican White House. This is a Republican shutdown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 20, 2018, 03:45:47 PM
I'd love to say that the Dems should be be magnanimous and say they'll vote so the budget passes but I reckon the Reps would slaugher them calling them weak and not fit to govern.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 04:21:13 PM
This is much more important than Whitey''s Clinton schtick :

Norman Ornstein

@NormOrnstein

·

1h

Reinforces what has become clear for a long time: John Kelly is a truly pernicious force

Norman Ornstein Retweeted


Joe Scarborough

@JoeNBC

·

3h

Remember Wolfe saying that Trump is clueless on policy and his staff leads him around by the nose? Well, two times this week his staff killed deals that Trump had supported to keep the government open.

Both Republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2018, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 12:51:15 PM
Also kind of funny as Arizona was actually part of Mexico, the old border moved north and only became a state in 1912...
I was thinking the same thing
no wonder flake and McCain are so sore on trump ,just worrying about re-election

Huh? Flake is showing some balls because he is not running for re-election. McCain has an extremely serious (almost always terminal) cancer fight on his hands and isn't up for relection until 2022, if he somehow lives that long. Not worrying about reelection allows politicians to act with a bit of integrity and call Trump and the GOP out on their bullshit and extremism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 05:32:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 04:21:13 PM
This is much more important than Whitey''s Clinton schtick :

Norman Ornstein

@NormOrnstein

·

1h

Reinforces what has become clear for a long time: John Kelly is a truly pernicious force

Norman Ornstein Retweeted


Joe Scarborough

@JoeNBC

·

3h

Remember Wolfe saying that Trump is clueless on policy and his staff leads him around by the nose? Well, two times this week his staff killed deals that Trump had supported to keep the government open.

Both Republicans.
joe Scarborough? Ffs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 05:40:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 05:32:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 04:21:13 PM
This is much more important than Whitey''s Clinton schtick :

Norman Ornstein

@NormOrnstein

·

1h

Reinforces what has become clear for a long time: John Kelly is a truly pernicious force

Norman Ornstein Retweeted


Joe Scarborough

@JoeNBC

·

3h

Remember Wolfe saying that Trump is clueless on policy and his staff leads him around by the nose? Well, two times this week his staff killed deals that Trump had supported to keep the government open.

Both Republicans.
joe Scarborough? Ffs
The GOP is owned by plutocrats
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/after-scoring-huge-tax-cuts-charles-koch-floods-ryan-cash-2643260

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 20, 2018, 05:42:19 PM
Democrats will blame the Republicans

The Republicans will blame The Democrats

At least the lame stream media no longer has a lock on the desimination of information so maybe some people will be able to make up their own minds
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 06:03:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2018, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 12:51:15 PM
Also kind of funny as Arizona was actually part of Mexico, the old border moved north and only became a state in 1912...
I was thinking the same thing
no wonder flake and McCain are so sore on trump ,just worrying about re-election

Huh? Flake is showing some balls because he is not running for re-election. McCain has an extremely serious (almost always terminal) cancer fight on his hands and isn't up for relection until 2022, if he somehow lives that long. Not worrying about reelection allows politicians to act with a bit of integrity and call Trump and the GOP out on their bullshit and extremism.
Flake must be looking at a show on CNN so as for McCain he'll be keeping it in the family I'm sure
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 06:07:04 PM
Fundamental law of the universe, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Ryan's bill passes. Coffers swell with maximum donations from the billionaires.

When the working and middle class actually feel the impact of the tax legislation they will vote accordingly. Right now the blinkers are on an the spin is in full flight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 06:07:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2018, 05:42:19 PM
Democrats will blame the Republicans

The Republicans will blame The Democrats

At least the lame stream media no longer has a lock on the desimination of information so maybe some people will be able to make up their own minds
Trump said he would fix DC. Kelly overruled him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 06:08:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 06:07:04 PM
Fundamental law of the universe, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Ryan's bill passes. Coffers swell with maximum donations from the billionaires.

When the working and middle class actually feel the impact of the tax legislation they will vote accordingly. Right now the blinkers are on an the spin is in full flight.
When the economy crashes the cupboard will be bare.
The tax cuts are suicidal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 06:15:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 06:07:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2018, 05:42:19 PM
Democrats will blame the Republicans

The Republicans will blame The Democrats

At least the lame stream media no longer has a lock on the desimination of information so maybe some people will be able to make up their own minds
Trump said he would fix DC. Kelly overruled him
which is it schumer is saying trump is vetoing it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2018, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 06:03:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2018, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 12:51:15 PM
Also kind of funny as Arizona was actually part of Mexico, the old border moved north and only became a state in 1912...
I was thinking the same thing
no wonder flake and McCain are so sore on trump ,just worrying about re-election

Huh? Flake is showing some balls because he is not running for re-election. McCain has an extremely serious (almost always terminal) cancer fight on his hands and isn't up for relection until 2022, if he somehow lives that long. Not worrying about reelection allows politicians to act with a bit of integrity and call Trump and the GOP out on their bullshit and extremism.
Flake must be looking at a show on CNN so as for McCain he'll be keeping it in the family I'm sure

Just so we are clear, are you unhappy with Flake and McCain standing up to Trump on certain issues?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2018, 06:37:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2018, 05:42:19 PM
Democrats will blame the Republicans

The Republicans will blame The Democrats

At least the lame stream media no longer has a lock on the desimination of information so maybe some people will be able to make up their own minds

How many more decades of whining are we going to get about the "lame stream media"?

I've never heard liberals complaining about the complete conservative dominance of talk radio for decades. Fox never shut up about their all conquering ratings. Murdoch is one of, if not THE most dominant forces in global media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 07:15:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2018, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 06:03:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2018, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 12:51:15 PM
Also kind of funny as Arizona was actually part of Mexico, the old border moved north and only became a state in 1912...
I was thinking the same thing
no wonder flake and eMcCain are so sore on trump ,just worrying about re-election

Huh? Flake is showing some balls because he is not running for re-election. McCain has an extremely serious (almost always terminal) cancer fight on his hands and isn't up for relection until 2022, if he somehow lives that long. Not worrying about reelection allows politicians to act with a bit of integrity and call Trump and the GOP out on their bullshit and extremism.
Flake must be looking at a show on CNN so as for McCain he'll be keeping it in the family I'm sure

Just so we are clear, are you unhappy with Flake and McCain standing up to Trump on certain issues?
not at all just suspicious of their motives
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 07:43:22 PM
The Republicans shooting themselves in the foot again this week with the protecting the family schtick.

Trump and the porn stars of course.

Now Meehan, who has set himself up as the defender of the victims of sexually harassment has been outed as paying off his former aide from tax payers coffers.

Will they ever learn, or do they even have to if the voters are idiots
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2018, 10:07:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 07:15:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2018, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 06:03:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 20, 2018, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2018, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 12:51:15 PM
Also kind of funny as Arizona was actually part of Mexico, the old border moved north and only became a state in 1912...
I was thinking the same thing
no wonder flake and eMcCain are so sore on trump ,just worrying about re-election

Huh? Flake is showing some balls because he is not running for re-election. McCain has an extremely serious (almost always terminal) cancer fight on his hands and isn't up for relection until 2022, if he somehow lives that long. Not worrying about reelection allows politicians to act with a bit of integrity and call Trump and the GOP out on their bullshit and extremism.
Flake must be looking at a show on CNN so as for McCain he'll be keeping it in the family I'm sure

Just so we are clear, are you unhappy with Flake and McCain standing up to Trump on certain issues?
not at all just suspicious of their motives

Are you suspicious of the motives of those who choose to defend or remain silent on Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 21, 2018, 12:10:16 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 20, 2018, 07:43:22 PM
The Republicans shooting themselves in the foot again this week with the protecting the family schtick.

Trump and the porn stars of course.

Now Meehan, who has set himself up as the defender of the victims of sexually harassment has been outed as paying off his former aide from tax payers coffers.

Will they ever learn, or do they even have to if the voters are idiots

the democrats are always shooting themselves in the foot, whyshould te republicans not be capable of the same, they are rudderless and cowards in the way they are conducting themselves, and that just the republicans!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 21, 2018, 04:23:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZgBtYjN.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 21, 2018, 08:43:13 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/21/government-shutdown-trump-democrats-republicans-senate-vote

Donald Trump used Twitter to urge Senate Republicans to end the impasse by taking the "nuclear option" if the "stalemate continues".

Such a move would allow Republicans to pass legislation without Democratic support, lowering the majority needed to pass a bill to just 51 votes. It is, however, not favoured by the GOP Senate leader, Mitch McConnell.

The president arguing that Democrats were placing the nation's borders under threat by opposing a short-term budget fix.

"The Dems just want illegal immigrants to pour into our nation unchecked," Trump tweeted.

Quick guideAll you need to know about the US government shutdownShow

Advertisement

The remarks followed an agressive Trump campaign advert released on Saturday, which said Democrats opposing the president's hardline immigration agenda were "complicit in every murder committed by illegal immigrants".

Marc Short, the White House director of legislative affairs, told NBC's Meet the Press "that ad was produced by an outside group and not those of us in the White House".

The ad concludes with a picture of the president giving two thumbs up and his voice saying: "I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message."

The Vermont senator Bernie Sanders condemned the ad, telling CNN's State of the Union is was "nonsense and outrageous".

Sanders, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, is helping lead efforts to secure talks safeguards for Dreamers, young undocumented migrants brought to the US who gained protected status under the Obama administration that was rescinded by Trump.

News shows repeated Fox & Friends footage from 2013, when Republicans in Congress drove the last government shutdown, over healthcare reform.

"Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top," Trump said then. "I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president's the leader. And he's got to get everybody in a room and he's got to lead."

The Senate needs to lead," Graham said, "because no one else is and the White House staff is making things very difficult."

Graham said White House proposals for spending on border security were "just not credible" and referred to a senior policy adviser to Trump and leading immigration hardliner when he said: "As long as Stephen Miller's in charge of negotiating on immigration we're going nowhere. He's been an outlier for years."


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 22, 2018, 03:34:35 PM
Hahaha...I see that the FBI "lost"all texts from rogue Agent Peter Strzok from Dec 2016 thru May 2017.....how convenient.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fbi-clinton/senator-says-fbi-lost-crucial-texts-tied-to-clinton-probe-idUSKBN1FA15O
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2018, 04:42:52 PM
Yes, Prime Minister

https://youtu.be/TlQsisVrsJ8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 22, 2018, 05:59:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2018, 08:43:13 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/21/government-shutdown-trump-democrats-republicans-senate-vote

Donald Trump used Twitter to urge Senate Republicans to end the impasse by taking the "nuclear option" if the "stalemate continues".

Such a move would allow Republicans to pass legislation without Democratic support, lowering the majority needed to pass a bill to just 51 votes. It is, however, not favoured by the GOP Senate leader, Mitch McConnell.

The president arguing that Democrats were placing the nation's borders under threat by opposing a short-term budget fix.

"The Dems just want illegal immigrants to pour into our nation unchecked," Trump tweeted.

Quick guideAll you need to know about the US government shutdownShow

Advertisement

The remarks followed an agressive Trump campaign advert released on Saturday, which said Democrats opposing the president's hardline immigration agenda were "complicit in every murder committed by illegal immigrants".

Marc Short, the White House director of legislative affairs, told NBC's Meet the Press "that ad was produced by an outside group and not those of us in the White House".

The ad concludes with a picture of the president giving two thumbs up and his voice saying: "I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message."

The Vermont senator Bernie Sanders condemned the ad, telling CNN's State of the Union is was "nonsense and outrageous".

Sanders, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, is helping lead efforts to secure talks safeguards for Dreamers, young undocumented migrants brought to the US who gained protected status under the Obama administration that was rescinded by Trump.

News shows repeated Fox & Friends footage from 2013, when Republicans in Congress drove the last government shutdown, over healthcare reform.

"Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top," Trump said then. "I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president's the leader. And he's got to get everybody in a room and he's got to lead."

The Senate needs to lead," Graham said, "because no one else is and the White House staff is making things very difficult."

Graham said White House proposals for spending on border security were "just not credible" and referred to a senior policy adviser to Trump and leading immigration hardliner when he said: "As long as Stephen Miller's in charge of negotiating on immigration we're going nowhere. He's been an outlier for years."
seafoid u will be happy to hear the government shut down is over
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 22, 2018, 06:06:57 PM
Surely you mean the "Schumer Shutdown?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2018, 06:32:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2018, 05:59:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2018, 08:43:13 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/21/government-shutdown-trump-democrats-republicans-senate-vote

Donald Trump used Twitter to urge Senate Republicans to end the impasse by taking the "nuclear option" if the "stalemate continues".

Such a move would allow Republicans to pass legislation without Democratic support, lowering the majority needed to pass a bill to just 51 votes. It is, however, not favoured by the GOP Senate leader, Mitch McConnell.

The president arguing that Democrats were placing the nation's borders under threat by opposing a short-term budget fix.

"The Dems just want illegal immigrants to pour into our nation unchecked," Trump tweeted.

Quick guideAll you need to know about the US government shutdownShow

Advertisement

The remarks followed an agressive Trump campaign advert released on Saturday, which said Democrats opposing the president's hardline immigration agenda were "complicit in every murder committed by illegal immigrants".

Marc Short, the White House director of legislative affairs, told NBC's Meet the Press "that ad was produced by an outside group and not those of us in the White House".

The ad concludes with a picture of the president giving two thumbs up and his voice saying: "I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message."

The Vermont senator Bernie Sanders condemned the ad, telling CNN's State of the Union is was "nonsense and outrageous".

Sanders, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, is helping lead efforts to secure talks safeguards for Dreamers, young undocumented migrants brought to the US who gained protected status under the Obama administration that was rescinded by Trump.

News shows repeated Fox & Friends footage from 2013, when Republicans in Congress drove the last government shutdown, over healthcare reform.

"Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top," Trump said then. "I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president's the leader. And he's got to get everybody in a room and he's got to lead."

The Senate needs to lead," Graham said, "because no one else is and the White House staff is making things very difficult."

Graham said White House proposals for spending on border security were "just not credible" and referred to a senior policy adviser to Trump and leading immigration hardliner when he said: "As long as Stephen Miller's in charge of negotiating on immigration we're going nowhere. He's been an outlier for years."
seafoid u will be happy to hear the government shut down is over
The Trump clown show continues....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2018, 09:28:46 AM
Jesse Lehrich

@JesseLehrich

in a survey of @MorganStanley analysts across industries, "barely 1 in 5 said firms would pass *even some* of the tax gains on to workers." (link: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/us/politics/bonuses-tax-laws-trump-impact.html)


And Trump promised Flake a deal on DACA in return for his vote on the tax cuts.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/01/us/politics/senate-tax-bill.html

"In the late afternoon, Ms. Collins announced her support for the bill, citing those changes as well as a promise from Mr. McConnell that he would support two bipartisan bills meant to help stabilize individual insurance markets under the Affordable Care Act. Ms. Collins had expressed concern about a provision in the tax bill to repeal the act's mandate that most Americans have insurance or pay a penalty.

Lawmakers also included a more generous tax break for companies organized as pass-through entities, a provision needed to win the support of Mr. Johnson and Senator Steve Daines of Montana.

And, in a bid to get Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona on board, leaders agreed to work on providing "fair and permanent protections" for the beneficiaries of an Obama-era effort that protects young undocumented immigrants from deportation, known as Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, Mr. Flake said."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2018, 01:20:56 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/01/18/donald-trump-damage-bigly/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 23, 2018, 02:30:05 PM
sounds like a great idea

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-22/trump-taxes-solar-imports-in-biggest-blow-to-clean-energy-yet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2018, 02:35:18 PM
And it still won't save the coal industry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2018, 02:41:19 PM
We were toying with putting in solar this summer, contingent on whether we decide to keep the house long term. This throws a nice big spanner in the works.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2018, 03:04:04 PM
Hmmmmm.....seemingly a "secret society" met the day after the election.


Very suspicious indeed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 23, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
What goes on in that head of yours whitey?

Actually - don't tell me - I'm afraid to find out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2018, 04:21:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 23, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
What goes on in that head of yours whitey?

Actually - don't tell me - I'm afraid to find out

Believe whatever you want.....it's right there in the texts between the rogue FBI agents

I'm shocked that this hasn't been covered by the lame stream media
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2018, 05:04:58 PM
Let's hope they get it all out there in an honest fashion. One would hope the GOP are looking just as closely at the FBI leaks to Giuliani right before the election and the communications between THOSE agents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2018, 06:20:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2018, 03:04:04 PM
Hmmmmm.....seemingly a "secret society" met the day after the election.


Very suspicious indeed

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/548663225164636160/NkJZRzyj.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 23, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2018, 04:21:43 PMthe lame stream media

Jesus Christ (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/haha.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2018, 07:39:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2018, 06:20:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2018, 03:04:04 PM
Hmmmmm.....seemingly a "secret society" met the day after the election.


Very suspicious indeed

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/548663225164636160/NkJZRzyj.jpeg)

They are the actual words used by the rogue FBI Agents

Believe whatever you want.....there is major $hit coming down the pike
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 23, 2018, 08:32:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 23, 2018, 02:30:05 PM
sounds like a great idea

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-22/trump-taxes-solar-imports-in-biggest-blow-to-clean-energy-yet
maybe they should give another 500m to solyndra
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2018, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2018, 04:21:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 23, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
What goes on in that head of yours whitey?

Actually - don't tell me - I'm afraid to find out

Believe whatever you want.....it's right there in the texts between the rogue FBI agents

I'm shocked that this hasn't been covered by the lame stream media

The "mainstream media" prefers to fact-check before going to print.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 24, 2018, 12:04:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2018, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2018, 04:21:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 23, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
What goes on in that head of yours whitey?

Actually - don't tell me - I'm afraid to find out

Believe whatever you want.....it's right there in the texts between the rogue FBI agents

I'm shocked that this hasn't been covered by the lame stream media

The "mainstream media" prefers to fact-check before going to print.

The mainstream media is biased and bought and paid for and in the hands of the democrats, there are very few decent journalists left in America.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 12:06:51 AM
And the right wing media aren't bought and paid for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 24, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 20, 2018, 05:48:59 AM
Well Trump did say he would run the government like his businesses. It only took a year to shut down the government.

At least pelosi made sure the libs were fed in a nice restaurant after missing work, $40.00 entrees all round and tiramisau ans strawberry cheesecake for afters, not to mention cocktails at 15 dollas a crack. I know its crubs to Nancy but still, it is a tad showey considering Hillory controlled the coofers during the last election she lost andd they ended up broke.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 12:11:49 AM
Reality has a liberal bias.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: stew on January 24, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 20, 2018, 05:48:59 AM
Well Trump did say he would run the government like his businesses. It only took a year to shut down the government.

At least pelosi made sure the libs were fed in a nice restaurant after missing work, $40.00 entrees all round and tiramisau ans strawberry cheesecake for afters, not to mention cocktails at 15 dollas a crack. I know its crubs to Nancy but still, it is a tad showey considering Hillory controlled the coofers during the last election she lost andd they ended up broke.

Would cost the same as a few minutes on Donnie's golf course.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 24, 2018, 12:19:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 12:11:49 AM
Reality has a liberal bias.

Shuure it does! Liberal reality is scary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 24, 2018, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: stew on January 24, 2018, 12:04:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2018, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2018, 04:21:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 23, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
What goes on in that head of yours whitey?

Actually - don't tell me - I'm afraid to find out

Believe whatever you want.....it's right there in the texts between the rogue FBI agents

I'm shocked that this hasn't been covered by the lame stream media

The "mainstream media" prefers to fact-check before going to print.

The mainstream media is biased and bought and paid for and in the hands of the democrats, there are very few decent journalists left in America.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

That's hilarious
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2018, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 12:11:49 AM
Reality has a liberal bias.

Hahahah.....like the pro Bernie op ed in The NY Times that got edited with input from the Clinton campaign to turn it into an anti  BErnie op ed.....they'd give the National Enquirer  run for their money when it comes to journalistic standards and integrity

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2018, 01:06:42 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 23, 2018, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2018, 04:21:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 23, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
What goes on in that head of yours whitey?

Actually - don't tell me - I'm afraid to find out

Believe whatever you want.....it's right there in the texts between the rogue FBI agents

I'm shocked that this hasn't been covered by the lame stream media

The "mainstream media" prefers to fact-check before going to print.

Lol....except if they are reporting something bad on Trump

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/money/2017/06/26/media/cnn-announcement-retracted-article/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 04:38:08 AM
So CNN retracted a story and apologized.

Where was Fox and Hannity's apology for that bullshit Seth Rich conspiracy story they kept pushing even after the family told them to stop?

I won't hold my breath on a response.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2018, 05:05:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 04:38:08 AM
So CNN retracted a story and apologized.

Where was Fox and Hannity's apology for that bullshit Seth Rich conspiracy story they kept pushing even after the family told them to stop?

I won't hold my breath on a response.
More Fox /gop bs

Secret FBI society wants to overthrow govt.

 https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/955968310541193217/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 12:11:49 AM
Reality has a liberal bias.

Hahahah.....like the pro Bernie op ed in The NY Times that got edited with input from the Clinton campaign to turn it into an anti  BErnie op ed.....they'd give the National Enquirer  run for their money when it comes to journalistic standards and integrity

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

You're very fond of the single, repetitive anecdote "proving" some wider theory.

How many times have you posted this same story on this thread? Surely if the bias of the "lame stream media" is as rampant as you believe you can find some new material or maybe even some stats?

There is also the Bill Clinton quote on the worker doing 60 hours/week getting fucked by Obamacare which you can be quarantined to post if anyone mentions Obamacare.

You should have this stuff in your signature to save you the bother!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2018, 11:33:36 AM
Apparently the school mass shooting in Kentucky yesterday was the 11th of the year (i.e. the month!!) in the US.

But, it's pretty much background noise to everyday American life now. Barely merits a glance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2018, 11:34:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2018, 11:33:36 AM
Apparently the school mass shooting in Kentucky yesterday was the 11th of the year (i.e. the month!!).

But, it's pretty much background noise to everyday American life now. Barely merits a glance.
the 50th since the start of the school year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2018, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 12:11:49 AM
Reality has a liberal bias.

Hahahah.....like the pro Bernie op ed in The NY Times that got edited with input from the Clinton campaign to turn it into an anti  BErnie op ed.....they'd give the National Enquirer  run for their money when it comes to journalistic standards and integrity

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

You're very fond of the single, repetitive anecdote "proving" some wider theory.

How many times have you posted this same story on this thread? Surely if the bias of the "lame stream media" is as rampant as you believe you can find some new material or maybe even some stats?

There is also the Bill Clinton quote on the worker doing 60 hours/week getting fucked by Obamacare which you can be quarantined to post if anyone mentions Obamacare.

You should have this stuff in your signature to save you the bother!

Truth hurts doesnt it?

I keeep brining it up because its one of the most outrageous example of bias I have ever seen from a "respectable" news source.

Dems love to preach about the need for a free press, but my God.......a political campaign was able to influence a major newspaper to alter an EDITORIAL. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2018, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 04:38:08 AM
So CNN retracted a story and apologized.

Where was Fox and Hannity's apology for that bullshit Seth Rich conspiracy story they kept pushing even after the family told them to stop?

I won't hold my breath on a response.

Yes...Fox News is just as unreliable and untrustworthy as CNN. You are correct
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2018, 11:52:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 04:38:08 AM
So CNN retracted a story and apologized.

Where was Fox and Hannity's apology for that bullshit Seth Rich conspiracy story they kept pushing even after the family told them to stop?

I won't hold my breath on a response.

Yes...Fox News is just as unreliable and untrustworthy as CNN. You are correct
Fox news is to CNN as Pinocchio is to Atticus Finch
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2018, 11:57:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 12:11:49 AM
Reality has a liberal bias.

Hahahah.....like the pro Bernie op ed in The NY Times that got edited with input from the Clinton campaign to turn it into an anti  BErnie op ed.....they'd give the National Enquirer  run for their money when it comes to journalistic standards and integrity

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

You're very fond of the single, repetitive anecdote "proving" some wider theory.

How many times have you posted this same story on this thread? Surely if the bias of the "lame stream media" is as rampant as you believe you can find some new material or maybe even some stats?

There is also the Bill Clinton quote on the worker doing 60 hours/week getting fucked by Obamacare which you can be quarantined to post if anyone mentions Obamacare.

You should have this stuff in your signature to save you the bother!

Truth hurts doesnt it?

I keeep brining it up because its one of the most outrageous example of bias I have ever seen from a "respectable" news source.

Dems love to preach about the need for a free press, but my God.......a political campaign was able to influence a major newspaper to alter an EDITORIAL.

Anecdotes do not equal truth. And editorials, by definition, take a position. They're not meant to be even-handed or neutral.

Besides, surely you have some "better" examples of the "lame stream" media's supposed liberal bias than a piece on the most liberal senator in the country being edited in a less favourable way?

Surely after decades of whining there is some independent scientific data out there by now to support the bias charges?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2018, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 04:38:08 AM
So CNN retracted a story and apologized.

Where was Fox and Hannity's apology for that bullshit Seth Rich conspiracy story they kept pushing even after the family told them to stop?

I won't hold my breath on a response.

Yes...Fox News is just as unreliable and untrustworthy as CNN. You are correct

Have Fox apologized or offered an explanation for their Seth Rich campaign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2018, 12:18:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2018, 11:57:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 12:11:49 AM
Reality has a liberal bias.

Hahahah.....like the pro Bernie op ed in The NY Times that got edited with input from the Clinton campaign to turn it into an anti  BErnie op ed.....they'd give the National Enquirer  run for their money when it comes to journalistic standards and integrity

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

You're very fond of the single, repetitive anecdote "proving" some wider theory.

How many times have you posted this same story on this thread? Surely if the bias of the "lame stream media" is as rampant as you believe you can find some new material or maybe even some stats?

There is also the Bill Clinton quote on the worker doing 60 hours/week getting fucked by Obamacare which you can be quarantined to post if anyone mentions Obamacare.

You should have this stuff in your signature to save you the bother!

Truth hurts doesnt it?

I keeep brining it up because its one of the most outrageous example of bias I have ever seen from a "respectable" news source.

Dems love to preach about the need for a free press, but my God.......a political campaign was able to influence a major newspaper to alter an EDITORIAL.

Anecdotes do not equal truth. And editorials, by definition, take a position. They're not meant to be even-handed or neutral.

Besides, surely you have some "better" examples of the "lame stream" media's supposed liberal bias than a piece on the most liberal senator in the country being edited in a less favourable way?

Surely after decades of whining there is some independent scientific data out there by now to support the bias charges?


So you don't have an issue with a pro Bernie editorial CHANGING mid morning into an anti Bernie editorial using Clinton campaign talking points? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 04:38:08 AM
So CNN retracted a story and apologized.

Where was Fox and Hannity's apology for that bullshit Seth Rich conspiracy story they kept pushing even after the family told them to stop?

I won't hold my breath on a response.

Yes...Fox News is just as unreliable and untrustworthy as CNN. You are correct

So Fox are part of the lamestream media as well - good to know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2018, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 12:18:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2018, 11:57:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 12:11:49 AM
Reality has a liberal bias.

Hahahah.....like the pro Bernie op ed in The NY Times that got edited with input from the Clinton campaign to turn it into an anti  BErnie op ed.....they'd give the National Enquirer  run for their money when it comes to journalistic standards and integrity

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

You're very fond of the single, repetitive anecdote "proving" some wider theory.

How many times have you posted this same story on this thread? Surely if the bias of the "lame stream media" is as rampant as you believe you can find some new material or maybe even some stats?

There is also the Bill Clinton quote on the worker doing 60 hours/week getting fucked by Obamacare which you can be quarantined to post if anyone mentions Obamacare.

You should have this stuff in your signature to save you the bother!

Truth hurts doesnt it?

I keeep brining it up because its one of the most outrageous example of bias I have ever seen from a "respectable" news source.

Dems love to preach about the need for a free press, but my God.......a political campaign was able to influence a major newspaper to alter an EDITORIAL.

Anecdotes do not equal truth. And editorials, by definition, take a position. They're not meant to be even-handed or neutral.

Besides, surely you have some "better" examples of the "lame stream" media's supposed liberal bias than a piece on the most liberal senator in the country being edited in a less favourable way?

Surely after decades of whining there is some independent scientific data out there by now to support the bias charges?


So you don't have an issue with a pro Bernie editorial CHANGING mid morning into an anti Bernie editorial using Clinton campaign talking points?

As someone who (admittedly on the toss of a coin) voted for Bernie in the primary, I thought it was poorly handled. Not because of where they ended up, but how they got there. If the article was let through, then it should have been left that way. If you're going to take a stand that Bernie's accomplishments in the senate are relatively modest, then make that decision before releasing the article. The change wasn't a correction of fact. So it was an embarrassing moment for the Times.

But I've no issue with editorials favouring her over him (or vice versa at other publications). I read editorials and opinion pieces every day from all sides of politics (the Real Clear Politics app is an excellent clearing house for this stuff BTW). Personal preferences and biases and agendas are built into those.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2018, 01:07:37 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 24, 2018, 04:38:08 AM
So CNN retracted a story and apologized.

Where was Fox and Hannity's apology for that bullshit Seth Rich conspiracy story they kept pushing even after the family told them to stop?

I won't hold my breath on a response.

Yes...Fox News is just as unreliable and untrustworthy as CNN. You are correct

So Fox are part of the lamestream media as well - good to know

I suppose they are now. In the past they weren't because you had to PAY to watch it

BTW you'll never find me defending Fox......haven't watched it in 10 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2018, 06:05:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2018, 01:07:37 PM
BTW you'll never find me defending Fox......haven't watched it in 10 years

(http://www.ijunoon.com/sw-store/images/dictionary/ijunoon.com-44299102016.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2018, 06:50:09 PM
Some good stuff on twitter recently

Evan McMullin

@Evan_McMullin

Trump is consistent about three things: 1) Love of self. 2) Love of Putin. 3) Hostility toward the FBI. And that is a very troubling combination.

The whole system of the U.S. was supposedly designed to keep people like Donald Trump away from power, and if they somehow slipped into power, to control them while there. That system is failing," says @davidfrum



David Axelrod

@davidaxelrod

·

3h

Note to those who fired back about the supreme authority of the @POTUS: The oath the AG and federal agents take is not a pledge of fidelity to the president. It is a pledge to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States."

David Axelrod

@davidaxelrod

What is clear is that this @POTUS believes that the @FBI and DOJ are wholly-owned subsidiaries of Trump, there to protect his interests, not the country's. He's dangerously wrong.


@NormOrnstein

·

3h

Must be pure coincidence. Oh, wait....

Adam Schiff

@RepAdamSchiff

Mueller subpoenas Bannon, Nunes produces spin memo; Mueller interviews Sessions, Johnson claims secret society in FBI;


Secret FBI society wants to overthrow govt.

 https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/955968310541193217/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2018, 01:06:17 AM
What do you think, lads? Is Donald banging Nikki Haley or what? She looks like his type.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2018, 05:44:24 PM
Democrats can breathe a sigh of relief now. Oprah has ruled out a White House run.

It's a shame we've gotten to the point where a celebrity making a rousing speech is enough to trigger a wave of speculation about presidential ambitions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 25, 2018, 10:43:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2018, 05:44:24 PM
Democrats can breathe a sigh of relief now. Oprah has ruled out a White House run.

It's a shame we've gotten to the point where a celebrity making a rousing speech is enough to trigger a wave of speculation about presidential ambitions.

Fasten your seat Belt kid, The Rock is considering a run in politics as is Kid Rock, I am waiting for the Democrats to announce Tom Cruise is running ffs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 25, 2018, 10:48:15 PM
That Kid Rock thing was all promotion for a new album he was releasing. 

Quote"F‑‑‑ no, I'm not running for Senate. Are you kidding me?" Kid Rock said on Stern's SiriusXM show. "Who couldn't figure that out? I'm releasing a new album. I'm going on tour, too."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2018, 10:56:23 PM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2018, 10:43:45 PM
Fasten your seat Belt kid, The Rock is considering a run in politics as is Kid Rock, I am waiting for the Democrats to announce Tom Cruise is running ffs!

Are you seriously mocking Democrats for having celebrities running for president? Who do you think is president now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on January 25, 2018, 11:05:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2018, 10:56:23 PM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2018, 10:43:45 PM
Fasten your seat Belt kid, The Rock is considering a run in politics as is Kid Rock, I am waiting for the Democrats to announce Tom Cruise is running ffs!

Are you seriously mocking Democrats for having celebrities running for president? Who do you think is president now?

Eh no I am not mocking democrats, I am merely stating facts! Ronie Reagan was a celebrity, Clint Eastwood was Mayor of Carmel and a Republican, Arnie was Governor of California and a Republican.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 25, 2018, 11:19:02 PM
In serious news - looks like Donnie is willing to bend on the Dreamers

QuoteThe White House's immigration plan will offer a path to citizenship for 1.8 million immigrants living in the country illegally, according to details shared by administration officials on a call for allies that Axios listened to. The administration proposal will be shared with Congress today, the officials said.

The big picture: The plan is "a compromised position" that includes "some extremely generous provisions that should make Democratic support to get to 60 votes a given," White House adviser Stephen Miller said on the call.

By the numbers: That includes establishing a path to citizenship for 1.8 million younger immigrants with work or education history and "good moral character." That number, substantially larger than the 800,000 DACA recipients, includes individuals who did not apply for DACA but met its requirements. "That is a very dramatic concession from the White House that should ensure 60 votes for the framework," Miller said.

The concession on DACA comes with the ability to terminate the status of individuals seen as a threat to national security based on criminal history, Miller said.

The White House's plan also includes...

  • An end to the visa lottery program and chain migration.
  • A "$25 billion dollar trust fund for the wall system."
  • "Historic investment in northern border security."
  • "An appropriation for filling personnel deficiencies" in border patrol and at the Department of Homeland Security.
  • "Same treatment of illegal aliens, regardless of country of origin."
  • "Closing loopholes in the system that make it almost impossible to deport illegal immigrants," such as the court backlog or the "catch and release" policy through which immigrants are released while awaiting a hearing


His base won't like that at all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2018, 01:33:21 AM
 This is very good

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/551402/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 26, 2018, 04:06:34 AM
This isn't a good look for Donnie

QuoteWASHINGTON — President Trump ordered the firing last June of Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel overseeing the Russia investigation, according to four people told of the matter, but ultimately backed down after the White House counsel threatened to resign rather than carry out the directive.

The West Wing confrontation marks the first time Mr. Trump is known to have tried to fire the special counsel. Mr. Mueller learned about the episode in recent months as his investigators interviewed current and former senior White House officials in his inquiry into whether the president obstructed justice.

Amid the first wave of news media reports that Mr. Mueller was examining a possible obstruction case, the president began to argue that Mr. Mueller had three conflicts of interest that disqualified him from overseeing the investigation, two of the people said.

First, he claimed that a dispute years ago over fees at Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Va., had prompted Mr. Mueller, the F.B.I. director at the time, to resign his membership. The president also said Mr. Mueller could not be impartial because he had most recently worked for the law firm that previously represented the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Finally, the president said, Mr. Mueller had been interviewed to return as the F.B.I. director the day before he was appointed special counsel in May.

After receiving the president's order to fire Mr. Mueller, the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, refused to ask the Justice Department to dismiss the special counsel, saying he would quit instead, the people said. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified discussing a continuing investigation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 26, 2018, 04:17:07 AM
And after a period of prayerful reflection with his wife and kids Meehan is not seeking reelection. How bad must that have been?
I mean if porn stars and interns can be brassed out what the hell did he do?

Also stop trying to put Donnie bone spurs down for campaign finance issues on the payoff, if you're gonna be a bear be a polar...
Go big or go home. Russia or obstruction of Justice, though it's always the money gets them in the end...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2018, 10:04:05 AM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2018, 11:05:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2018, 10:56:23 PM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2018, 10:43:45 PM
Fasten your seat Belt kid, The Rock is considering a run in politics as is Kid Rock, I am waiting for the Democrats to announce Tom Cruise is running ffs!

Are you seriously mocking Democrats for having celebrities running for president? Who do you think is president now?

Eh no I am not mocking democrats, I am merely stating facts! Ronie Reagan was a celebrity, Clint Eastwood was Mayor of Carmel and a Republican, Arnie was Governor of California and a Republican.

As is Kid Rock and Dwayne Johnson, although I don't think "the Rock" is hard right and could well run as a Dem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 26, 2018, 10:14:39 AM
Did anyone see Hannity??!! It was priceless . . .

Get a load of this!!

https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/956729170700259329
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on January 26, 2018, 10:31:03 AM
Imagine that fob off by a supposed respectable political commentator in this part of the world? Crazy  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2018, 10:36:25 AM
loved the retweets on the car crash!

Our sources cannot confirm his identity..."

Minutes later: "Alright, so our sources can confirm that the driver is Trump, but so what? He's the president, if he wants to lead police on a dangerous high-speed chase, that's his right. We'll have more on this tomorrow."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2018, 11:48:01 AM
Apparently the Fox News phrase of the week is "perjury trap".

They're all beside themselves at the thought of Trump being interviewed by Mueller under oath.

I wonder what they'd be saying if it was Hillary...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 26, 2018, 11:52:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2018, 11:48:01 AM
Apparently the Fox News phrase of the week is "perjury trap".

They're all beside themselves at the thought of Trump being interviewed by Mueller under oath.

I wonder what they'd be saying if it was Hillary...

Will it be televised?

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlB_lkEF0jC-qfTU9rbyQNBV9lefDVbonsVuetG02jc4gHzBwczg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2018, 06:23:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2018, 01:06:17 AM
What do you think, lads? Is Donald banging Nikki Haley or what? She looks like his type.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/26/un-ambassador-nikki-haley-says-rumors-of-affair-with-trump-are-disgusting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2018, 07:10:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 25, 2018, 11:19:02 PM
In serious news - looks like Donnie is willing to bend on the Dreamers

QuoteThe White House's immigration plan will offer a path to citizenship for 1.8 million immigrants living in the country illegally, according to details shared by administration officials on a call for allies that Axios listened to. The administration proposal will be shared with Congress today, the officials said.

The big picture: The plan is "a compromised position" that includes "some extremely generous provisions that should make Democratic support to get to 60 votes a given," White House adviser Stephen Miller said on the call.

By the numbers: That includes establishing a path to citizenship for 1.8 million younger immigrants with work or education history and "good moral character." That number, substantially larger than the 800,000 DACA recipients, includes individuals who did not apply for DACA but met its requirements. "That is a very dramatic concession from the White House that should ensure 60 votes for the framework," Miller said.

The concession on DACA comes with the ability to terminate the status of individuals seen as a threat to national security based on criminal history, Miller said.

The White House's plan also includes...

  • An end to the visa lottery program and chain migration.
  • A "$25 billion dollar trust fund for the wall system."
  • "Historic investment in northern border security."
  • "An appropriation for filling personnel deficiencies" in border patrol and at the Department of Homeland Security.
  • "Same treatment of illegal aliens, regardless of country of origin."
  • "Closing loopholes in the system that make it almost impossible to deport illegal immigrants," such as the court backlog or the "catch and release" policy through which immigrants are released while awaiting a hearing


His base won't like that at all

"Chain migration" is what they call it when families want to stay together. The airwaves are already filling up with tales of families torn apart. The "party of family values" almost seems to want to commit midterm suicide.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2018, 07:24:52 PM
What exactly chain migration?


Currently, who can be brought in? (And does it extend to people who are already here but undocumented)

What are they proposing changing it to?

On average how many people have historically been "brought" in?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 26, 2018, 08:07:49 PM
Any more word on that secret society whitey?

Cheers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2018, 08:11:59 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 26, 2018, 08:07:49 PM
Any more word on that secret society whitey?

Cheers.

I'm only reporting what the FBI Agent wrote in a text.  Maybe you should ask him?

In other news some pretty scandalous revelations in New texts that came out today

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/01/25/politics/fbi-texts/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 26, 2018, 08:17:09 PM
That's from yesterday - not today.  ;)

What are your thoughts on Donnie ordering the firing of Mueller last summer?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 26, 2018, 08:29:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2018, 10:14:39 AM
Did anyone see Hannity??!! It was priceless . . .

Get a load of this!!

https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/956729170700259329

The Narcissist's prayer

That didn't happen
And if it did, it wasn't that bad
And if it was, that's not a big deal
And if it is, its not my fault
And if it was, I didn't mean it
And if I did - you deserved it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2018, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 26, 2018, 08:17:09 PM
That's from yesterday - not today.  ;)

What are your thoughts on Donnie ordering the firing of Mueller last summer?

That is for the correction...I've been locked down in meetings and didn't notice it came out yesterday

I think it would be very stupid to fire Mueller......firing Comey let to Mueller appointment, so what would firing Mueller have led to ?

I guess I would also need to know the context of what happened before I pass judgement.....was it a serious consideration or just an off the cuff comment? 

Maybe he had just found out about the meeting of the "secret society" and flew into a rage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2018, 09:38:02 PM
US International Trade Commission has struck down tariffs on Bombardier Series C aircraft!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2018, 10:17:34 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/957010922417074176/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 26, 2018, 11:31:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2018, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 26, 2018, 08:17:09 PM
That's from yesterday - not today.  ;)

What are your thoughts on Donnie ordering the firing of Mueller last summer?

That is for the correction...I've been locked down in meetings and didn't notice it came out yesterday

I think it would be very stupid to fire Mueller......firing Comey let to Mueller appointment, so what would firing Mueller have led to ?

I guess I would also need to know the context of what happened before I pass judgement.....was it a serious consideration or just an off the cuff comment? 

Maybe he had just found out about the meeting of the "secret society" and flew into a rage

Sounds pretty serious when the only reason Donnie backed down was that Whitehouse Counsel McGahn threatened to quit.

The 'secret society' thing is a laugh. . . And Conservatives talk about the left getting outraged about the smallest things??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2018, 01:06:08 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2018, 11:31:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2018, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 26, 2018, 08:17:09 PM
That's from yesterday - not today.  ;)

What are your thoughts on Donnie ordering the firing of Mueller last summer?

That is for the correction...I've been locked down in meetings and didn't notice it came out yesterday

I think it would be very stupid to fire Mueller......firing Comey let to Mueller appointment, so what would firing Mueller have led to ?

I guess I would also need to know the context of what happened before I pass judgement.....was it a serious consideration or just an off the cuff comment? 

Maybe he had just found out about the meeting of the "secret society" and flew into a rage

Sounds pretty serious when the only reason Donnie backed down was that Whitehouse Counsel McGahn threatened to quit.

The 'secret society' thing is a laugh. . . And Conservatives talk about the left getting outraged about the smallest things??

Hence mynuse of quotation marks.....it was a tongue in cheek comment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2018, 01:35:32 AM
(https://assets.rbl.ms/14953544/980x.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on January 31, 2018, 10:37:57 AM
God is good.

https://www.themaven.net/beingliberal/room2/evangelical-women-porn-star-affair-okay-because-god-ordained-trump-3ZUYmxWj1E2FMZYfQXT84g (https://www.themaven.net/beingliberal/room2/evangelical-women-porn-star-affair-okay-because-god-ordained-trump-3ZUYmxWj1E2FMZYfQXT84g)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2018, 08:45:30 AM

How to talk like Trump

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/550934/

POSITIVE

amazing / beautiful / best / big league / brilliant / elegant / fabulous / fantastic / fine / good / great / happy / honest / incredible / nice / outstanding / phenomenal / powerful / sophisticated / special / strong / successful / top / tremendous / unbelievable


NEGATIVE

boring / complete and total / crooked / disgusting / dishonest / dopey / dumb / goofy / horrible / interesting* / not good / obsolete / out of control / overrated / pathetic / ridiculous / rude / sad / scary / stupid / terrible / unfair / weak / worst

*as a synonym for suspicious

• EXTREME

big / huge / major / many / massive / numerous / staggering / substantial / tough / vast

Usage note: These may be spoken once, twice ("major, major"), or three times ("many, many, many").


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2018, 11:09:50 PM
Norman Ornstein

@NormOrnstein

Please note that there is another massive ballon which to keep an eye. Thanks in part to the tax cuts, the debt ceiling day of reckoning is coming soon.


John Harwood

@JohnJHarwood

Trump declaring war on his own government

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

The top Leadership and Investigators of the FBI and the Justice Department have politicized the sacred investigative process in favor of Democrats and against Republicans - something which would have been unthinkable just a short time ago. Rank & File


EJ Dionne

@EJDionne

Here we go.... God save our republic.

BuzzFeed News

@BuzzFeedNews

When asked if the memo makes it more likely he will fire Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, Trump responds: "You figure that one out."




Gene Sperling

@genebsperling

·

21h

Media can't behave like a SLOW-MOTION Saturday Night Massacre thru separate attacks/firing of DOJ/FBI is less devastating to democracy and the rule of law because it takes place in several steps. A Rosenstein firing = breakdown of rule of law. Highest alarm must be raised now.

Ari Melber

@AriMelber

As discussed... Under law, only "Rosenstein can fire Mueller, and only if he finds Mueller has committed misconduct — something Rosenstein has repeatedly said he has not seen any sign of. But, if Trump were to fire Rosenstein, he [might hire] a more accommodating replacement"




Norman Ornstein

@NormOrnstein

·

1h

David, it has been about the GOP for too long. This is just about uncovering the rock and seeing what is and has been beneath it

David Jolly

@DavidJollyFL

Folks, starting today, this is no longer about the Russians. This is now about the GOP.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 02, 2018, 11:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Remind me again who commissioned the dossier??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on February 02, 2018, 11:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

We've been told by every source that the memo was an excercise in partisan gerrymandering yet this is the response offered. This thread is a microcosm of the shïtshow that is US politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:03:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 02, 2018, 11:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Remind me again who commissioned the dossier??

The DNC and Clinton Campaign

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:08:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 02, 2018, 11:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

We've been told by every source that the memo was an excercise in partisan gerrymandering yet this is the response offered. This thread is a microcosm of the shïtshow that is US politics.


Comey said under oath that the Dossier was salacious and unverified......yet they used it to pull a surveilance warrant on Trumps campaign, and neglected to tell the FISA judge the origon of the memo


Absolutely fvckin disgrace......if the shoe was on the other foot Democrats would have taken to the streets by now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 12:15:22 AM
Jeez Whitey ,Comey did not say the entire dossier was salacious and unverified only the bit about Trumps stay in the hotel in Moscow.Wean yourself off Hannitty for awhile.It will do you good.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 03, 2018, 12:19:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:03:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 02, 2018, 11:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Remind me again who commissioned the dossier??

The DNC and Clinton Campaign

Do you wanna take another swing at answering my question?

It's OK maybe you didn't realise. . . I'm happy enough for you to change your answe if you wish!?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/27/trump-russia-washington-free-beacon-fusion-gps-244265
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:23:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 03, 2018, 12:19:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:03:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 02, 2018, 11:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Remind me again who commissioned the dossier??

The DNC and Clinton Campaign

Do you wanna take another swing at answering my question?

It's OK maybe you didn't realise. . . I'm happy enough for you to change your answe if you wish!?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/27/trump-russia-washington-free-beacon-fusion-gps-244265

Washington Free Beacon had NOTHING to do with the DOSSIER

http://freebeacon.com/uncategorized/fusion-gps-washington-free-beacon/

"All of the work that Fusion GPS provided to the Free Beacon was based on public sources, and none of the work product that the Free Beacon received appears in the Steele dossier. The Free Beacon had no knowledge of or connection to the Steele dossier, did not pay for the dossier, and never had contact with, knowledge of, or provided payment for any work performed by Christopher Steele. Nor did we have any knowledge of the relationship between Fusion GPS and the Democratic National Committee, Perkins Coie, and the Clinton campaign."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:41:01 AM
Quote from: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 12:15:22 AM
Jeez Whitey ,Comey did not say the entire dossier was salacious and unverified only the bit about Trumps stay in the hotel in Moscow.Wean yourself off Hannitty for awhile.It will do you good.

Hahahahaha....so if elements of the dossier were salacious and unverified, and the wife of a prominent DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS, and that DOJ official had an "off the record" meeting with Steele, and another "off the record" meeting with Fusion GPS, what would you think if a similiar dossier were used by Republicans to secure a warrant and wiretap Hillarys campaign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 03, 2018, 01:17:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:08:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 02, 2018, 11:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

We've been told by every source that the memo was an excercise in partisan gerrymandering yet this is the response offered. This thread is a microcosm of the shïtshow that is US politics.


Comey said under oath that the Dossier was salacious and unverified......yet they used it to pull a surveilance warrant on Trumps campaign, and neglected to tell the FISA judge the origon of the memo


Absolutely fvckin disgrace......if the shoe was on the other foot Democrats would have taken to the streets by now

Safe spaces would have saved them though, the democrats love their safe spaces.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:55:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 02:01:11 AM
Quote from: stew on February 03, 2018, 01:17:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:08:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 02, 2018, 11:57:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

We've been told by every source that the memo was an excercise in partisan gerrymandering yet this is the response offered. This thread is a microcosm of the shïtshow that is US politics.


Comey said under oath that the Dossier was salacious and unverified......yet they used it to pull a surveilance warrant on Trumps campaign, and neglected to tell the FISA judge the origon of the memo


Absolutely fvckin disgrace......if the shoe was on the other foot Democrats would have taken to the streets by now

Safe spaces would have saved them though, the democrats love their safe spaces.

f**k me, you're tedious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 02:08:11 AM
BTW stew, you've been spouting off a few times recently on here about the black unemployment rate under Obama and Trump...

I know you are not into trends and statistics, but here's a nice wee straightforward graph for you.

US Unemployment Rate for African Americans age 16 and over
(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LNS14000006_2008_2018_all_period_M01_data.gif)
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000006 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000006)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:10:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:55:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 02:12:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:41:01 AM
Quote from: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 12:15:22 AM
Jeez Whitey ,Comey did not say the entire dossier was salacious and unverified only the bit about Trumps stay in the hotel in Moscow.Wean yourself off Hannitty for awhile.It will do you good.

Hahahahaha....so if elements of the dossier were salacious and unverified, and the wife of a prominent DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS, and that DOJ official had an "off the record" meeting with Steele, and another "off the record" meeting with Fusion GPS, what would you think if a similiar dossier were used by Republicans to secure a warrant and wiretap Hillarys campaign?
You are missing the point deliberately I suspect.The Dossier was not the sole reason for  obtaining the wiretaps which is in the memo if you bothered to read it.The counter intelligence  investigation was started months before the dossier was written
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:19:35 AM
Quote from: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 02:12:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:41:01 AM
Quote from: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 12:15:22 AM
Jeez Whitey ,Comey did not say the entire dossier was salacious and unverified only the bit about Trumps stay in the hotel in Moscow.Wean yourself off Hannitty for awhile.It will do you good.

Hahahahaha....so if elements of the dossier were salacious and unverified, and the wife of a prominent DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS, and that DOJ official had an "off the record" meeting with Steele, and another "off the record" meeting with Fusion GPS, what would you think if a similiar dossier were used by Republicans to secure a warrant and wiretap Hillarys campaign?
You are missing the point deliberately I suspect.The Dossier was not the sole reason for  obtaining the wiretaps which is in the memo if you bothered to read it.The counter intelligence  investigation was started months before the dossier was written

"Supposedly" under oath, McCabe said that without the dossier the warrant would not have been approved.

We wont know for certain until both his testimony and the warrant application are declassified and released

All types of people are under investigation all the time, but to get a wiretapping warrant on a US Citizen (and by natural extension a political campaign) requires a whole different level of proof
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 02:21:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:10:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:55:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on
we all know now that the memo is not as revealing as touted by the Dems but why is Trump saying that it is deeply troubling and shows major corruption in the FBI.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 02:24:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:19:35 AM
Quote from: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 02:12:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 12:41:01 AM
Quote from: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 12:15:22 AM
Jeez Whitey ,Comey did not say the entire dossier was salacious and unverified only the bit about Trumps stay in the hotel in Moscow.Wean yourself off Hannitty for awhile.It will do you good.

Hahahahaha....so if elements of the dossier were salacious and unverified, and the wife of a prominent DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS, and that DOJ official had an "off the record" meeting with Steele, and another "off the record" meeting with Fusion GPS, what would you think if a similiar dossier were used by Republicans to secure a warrant and wiretap Hillarys campaign?
You are missing the point deliberately I suspect.The Dossier was not the sole reason for  obtaining the wiretaps which is in the memo if you bothered to read it.The counter intelligence  investigation was started months before the dossier was written

"Supposedly" under oath, McCabe said that without the dossier the warrant would not have been approved.

We wont know for certain until both his testimony and the warrant application are declassified and released

All types of people are under investigation all the time, but to get a wiretapping warrant on a US Citizen (and by natural extension a political campaign) requires a whole different level of proof
Supposedly the key word.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 02:27:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:10:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:55:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on

What are you talking about? The GOP have led this issue for purely political reasons. Do you think they'd have brought all this info to light if it harmed Trump or he and the White House opposed it? His own Justice Dept opposed it FFS. Once again you focus your outrage on the Dems while the GOP attitude on declassification is staring you in the face!

And how can you can be adamant that Schiff looks like an idiot? You don't even know what's in their memo or what else is going to come out.

And sorry, I don't subscribe to your oft-proclaimed implication of Trump the genius playing 3D chess. This episode may work for him. Or it may not. Especially if he uses it to engineer the eventual removal of Mueller.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:31:20 AM
Quote from: maigheo on February 03, 2018, 02:21:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:10:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:55:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on
we all know now that the memo is not as revealing as touted by the Dems but why is Trump saying that it is deeply troubling and shows major corruption in the FBI.

"Supposedly", the FBI failed to inform the Judge that the Dossier was a piece of oppostion research gathered by, and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton Campaign. If the judge had that piece of information before reviewing  the warrant application, he/she  may not have approved the warrant.


All Trump is trying to do is stir up enough muck, so that if Mueller does find something (and I think hell find shag all collusion) he can say this is nothing more than a partsan witch hunt fuelled and funded by the DNC

Add in all the texts and the 2 secret meetings between Ohr and Steele/Fusion GPS, and Trump walks away from this relatively unscathed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:37:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 02:27:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:10:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:55:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on

What are you talking about? The GOP have led this issue for purely political reasons. Do you think they'd have brought all this info to light if it harmed Trump or he and the White House opposed it? His own Justice Dept opposed it FFS. Once again you focus your outrage on the Dems while the GOP attitude on declassification is staring you in the face!

And how can you can be adamant that Schiff looks like an idiot? You don't even know what's in their memo or what else is going to come out.

And sorry, I don't subscribe to your oft-proclaimed implication of Trump the genius playing 3D chess. This episode may work for him. Or it may not. Especially if he uses it to engineer the eventual removal of Mueller.

Ehhhhh....so now we all need to see McCabes testimony and the FISA warrant to really know whats going on. 

My best guess is that this is just the first domino to fall. There will be a parrallel investigation into the FISA application to distract from Mueller and Trump will emerge relatively unscathed

If Schiff objects to either being released, who'll believe a word out of his mouth based on his histrionics this past week

Hes scared shitless of these documents being released.

Keep in mind, Trump and his cronies know a whole lot more than you and I.....they know whats in these documents and this was a chess move to bring all this stuff out into the public domain

The Steele Dossier was a textbook Clinton/DNC dirty trick.....I have absolutely no problem with the Republicans meeting fire with fire and doing whatever is necessary to xpose it as such
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 12:10:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:37:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 02:27:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 02:10:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:55:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on

What are you talking about? The GOP have led this issue for purely political reasons. Do you think they'd have brought all this info to light if it harmed Trump or he and the White House opposed it? His own Justice Dept opposed it FFS. Once again you focus your outrage on the Dems while the GOP attitude on declassification is staring you in the face!

And how can you can be adamant that Schiff looks like an idiot? You don't even know what's in their memo or what else is going to come out.

And sorry, I don't subscribe to your oft-proclaimed implication of Trump the genius playing 3D chess. This episode may work for him. Or it may not. Especially if he uses it to engineer the eventual removal of Mueller.

Ehhhhh....so now we all need to see McCabes testimony and the FISA warrant to really know whats going on. 

My best guess is that this is just the first domino to fall. There will be a parrallel investigation into the FISA application to distract from Mueller and Trump will emerge relatively unscathed

If Schiff objects to either being released, who'll believe a word out of his mouth based on his histrionics this past week

Hes scared shitless of these documents being released.

Keep in mind, Trump and his cronies know a whole lot more than you and I.....they know whats in these documents and this was a chess move to bring all this stuff out into the public domain

The Steele Dossier was a textbook Clinton/DNC dirty trick.....I have absolutely no problem with the Republicans meeting fire with fire and doing whatever is necessary to xpose it as such

As does Schiff.

And there's plenty on the GOP side objecting to the way this all went down.

But, no, less settle on the corrupt Dems/poor desperate GOP finally fighting back version. :o

BTW, I agree Trump will eventually emerge intact (not unscathed). Whether or not he did anything, the DOJ are not going to charge him, no matter what Mueller finds, even if its more than a pattern of obstruction of justice. And if there's no indictment, we probably won't be getting too many details of Mueller's findings.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 01:05:12 PM
So lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment and say John Podesta (who has serious Russian issues himself) was wiretapped while running Hillarys campaign. The FISA warrants for the wiretap were approved in part based on an unverified opposition research memo paid for and directed by the Trump Campaign and the RNC.  Based on what youve said so far, youd be perfectly fine with that???

Oh And while all this is going on a senior DOJ official (under a sitting Republican administration) held 2 secret meetings with the firm that drafted the unverified memo.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 01:05:12 PM
So lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment and say John Podesta (who has serious Russian issues himself) was wiretapped while running Hillarys campaign. The FISA warrants for the wiretap were approved in part based on an unverified opposition research memo paid for and directed by the Trump Campaign and the RNC.  Based on what youve said so far, youd be perfectly fine with that???

Oh And while all this is going on a senior DOJ official (under a sitting Republican administration) held 2 secret meetings with the firm that drafted the unverified memo.

If the other evidence on Podesta suggested that there were legitimate grounds for concern, absolutely. And I would have no issue with any law enforcement official meeting with such sources to find out what they know.

Which of course is not to say that the rules for disclosure should not be followed.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2018, 01:46:45 PM
What sort of credibility has Devin Nunes?

Are we talking about somebody who is well known for his integrity here?

Can somebody fill me in here?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 01:56:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 01:05:12 PM
So lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment and say John Podesta (who has serious Russian issues himself) was wiretapped while running Hillarys campaign. The FISA warrants for the wiretap were approved in part based on an unverified opposition research memo paid for and directed by the Trump Campaign and the RNC.  Based on what youve said so far, youd be perfectly fine with that???

Oh And while all this is going on a senior DOJ official (under a sitting Republican administration) held 2 secret meetings with the firm that drafted the unverified memo.

If the other evidence on Podesta suggested that there were legitimate grounds for concern, absolutely. And I would have no issue with any law enforcement official meeting with such sources to find out what they know.

Which of course is not to say that the rules for disclosure should not be followed.





The DOJ official held 2 UNAUTHORIZED and UNDISCLOSED  meetings and was DEMOTED for doing so.

He was not a law enforcement official going about his regular business as you casually implied

And As far as I know he also failed to disclose that his wife worked for Fusion GPS.

The he 2 questions that now need to be answered are:

(1) Woukd and he warrant have been issued without the dossier?

(2) Was it disclosed in the FISA application that the dossier was opposition research paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign?

If the answer is no to either (or both) of these question.....then this is a huge win for Trump


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 03, 2018, 02:13:12 PM
What sort of reputation has Nunes?

Anybody?

Also, can anybody tell me how long this Carter Page chap was under investigation for, and why he was under investigation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 02:25:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 01:56:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 01:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 01:05:12 PM
So lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment and say John Podesta (who has serious Russian issues himself) was wiretapped while running Hillarys campaign. The FISA warrants for the wiretap were approved in part based on an unverified opposition research memo paid for and directed by the Trump Campaign and the RNC.  Based on what youve said so far, youd be perfectly fine with that???

Oh And while all this is going on a senior DOJ official (under a sitting Republican administration) held 2 secret meetings with the firm that drafted the unverified memo.

If the other evidence on Podesta suggested that there were legitimate grounds for concern, absolutely. And I would have no issue with any law enforcement official meeting with such sources to find out what they know.

Which of course is not to say that the rules for disclosure should not be followed.





The DOJ official held 2 UNAUTHORIZED and UNDISCLOSED  meetings and was DEMOTED for doing so.

He was not a law enforcement official going about his regular business as you casually implied

And As far as I know he also failed to disclose that his wife worked for Fusion GPS.

The he 2 questions that now need to be answered are:

(1) Woukd and he warrant have been issued without the dossier?

(2) Was it disclosed in the FISA application that the dossier was opposition research paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign?

If the answer is no to either (or both) of these question.....then this is a huge win for Trump

IF there was stuff going on that needed to be authorized from above, then of course action should be taken against any such individual.

And yes, those are the two questions, although I would think the first one is the key one.

If the application would have been approved anyway, I don't the disclosure thing being of much help to Trump.

Especially when the entire picture is taken into account.

This is all about PR. Trump is not being prosecuted or impeached, and he doesn't give a f**k about underlings, unless, as some speculation suggest, his kids are under the microscope.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 05:05:06 PM
http://www.zdnet.com/article/in-obamas-final-year-us-secret-court-denied-record-number-of-surveillance-requests/

In Obamas final year a record number of FISA requests were denied

We also need to know why they were denied and who was the subject of the wiretap?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 03, 2018, 05:36:53 PM
Good man whitey - keep fighting the good fight
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 03, 2018, 05:40:32 PM
What stinks too high heaven is the assumption that this is all politically motivated by partisans.
The law of unintended consequences of painting the FBI as a political organization is at best misguided, and at worst could have a significant impact on law enforcement in the states.
There are attempts to manipulate the public in their voting behaviours. The social media companies promote divisive posts in order to increase traffic and make money. This has not gone unnoticed and the case has been proceed that the Russians exploited this to sow seeds of division. How far they got with their other efforts with both Democrats and Republicans is yet to be clear.
There has always been and will all be attempts to sway individual politicians. However the legal system's protection of the impact of money in elections which is in place in the vast majority of democratic countries is glaringly absent in the US.
The American public have been so distracted by this nonsense and infighting that they do not realise the number being pulled on them.
The tax code is broken, as is the education system and the healthcare system. Get on the subway in New York to see the state of the infrastructure here.
For many years and still now, huge swathes of voters here opt for low taxes on the wealthy, because they all think they are going to be wealthy too. the American dream.
There is no awareness of basic economic realities, and as a result, politicians on both sides of the divide prey on aspirational dreamers.
This situation will continue to get worse before it gets better. While many Dems blame Trump, his presidency is a manifestation of all that has come before it.
The lack of real news and debate with facts has obfuscated the reality of the economic situation in the US. The DJIA or Dow is sadly for both the Obama lovers and the Trump lovers not a great economic indicator. Presidential power has little immediate impact on the overall economy. In a dichotomous political system these hens always come home to roost...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 03, 2018, 06:23:23 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 03, 2018, 05:40:32 PM
What stinks too high heaven is the assumption that this is all politically motivated by partisans.
The law of unintended consequences of painting the FBI as a political organization is at best misguided, and at worst could have a significant impact on law enforcement in the states.
There are attempts to manipulate the public in their voting behaviours. The social media companies promote divisive posts in order to increase traffic and make money. This has not gone unnoticed and the case has been proceed that the Russians exploited this to sow seeds of division. How far they got with their other efforts with both Democrats and Republicans is yet to be clear.
There has always been and will all be attempts to sway individual politicians. However the legal system's protection of the impact of money in elections which is in place in the vast majority of democratic countries is glaringly absent in the US.
The American public have been so distracted by this nonsense and infighting that they do not realise the number being pulled on them.
The tax code is broken, as is the education system and the healthcare system. Get on the subway in New York to see the state of the infrastructure here.
For many years and still now, huge swathes of voters here opt for low taxes on the wealthy, because they all think they are going to be wealthy too. the American dream.
There is no awareness of basic economic realities, and as a result, politicians on both sides of the divide prey on aspirational dreamers.
This situation will continue to get worse before it gets better. While many Dems blame Trump, his presidency is a manifestation of all that has come before it.
The lack of real news and debate with facts has obfuscated the reality of the economic situation in the US. The DJIA or Dow is sadly for both the Obama lovers and the Trump lovers not a great economic indicator. Presidential power has little immediate impact on the overall economy. In a dichotomous political system these hens always come home to roost...
Very good stuff. The US is a plutocracy. It needs a  new system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 06:50:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 05:05:06 PM
http://www.zdnet.com/article/in-obamas-final-year-us-secret-court-denied-record-number-of-surveillance-requests/

In Obamas final year a record number of FISA requests were denied

We also need to know why they were denied and who was the subject of the wiretap?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven

0.5% were rejected. 9/1,752.

Sounds like there's serious abuse of the system going on all right.

But yeah, let's get some answers. And let's keep the transparency going.

However, I would imagine that in this, like most outragefests, the actual results are not the point; the opportunity to spin the other side as evil demons while you demand an investigation is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 07:24:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 06:50:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 05:05:06 PM
http://www.zdnet.com/article/in-obamas-final-year-us-secret-court-denied-record-number-of-surveillance-requests/

In Obamas final year a record number of FISA requests were denied

We also need to know why they were denied and who was the subject of the wiretap?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven

0.5% were rejected. 9/1,752.

Sounds like there's serious abuse of the system going on all right.

But yeah, let's get some answers. And let's keep the transparency going.

However, I would imagine that in this, like most outragefests, the actual results are not the point; the opportunity to spin the other side as evil demons while you demand an investigation is.

If im reading it correctly 21 were rejected in close to 40 years of those 21, 9 were rejected  in Obamas final year

Who were they trying to surveil and why were they rejected?

Add in the fact that one of the most senior DOJ officials was secretly meeting with Steele and Fusion GPS

WE NEED ANSWERS!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 07:24:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 06:50:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 05:05:06 PM
http://www.zdnet.com/article/in-obamas-final-year-us-secret-court-denied-record-number-of-surveillance-requests/

In Obamas final year a record number of FISA requests were denied

We also need to know why they were denied and who was the subject of the wiretap?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven

0.5% were rejected. 9/1,752.

Sounds like there's serious abuse of the system going on all right.

But yeah, let's get some answers. And let's keep the transparency going.

However, I would imagine that in this, like most outragefests, the actual results are not the point; the opportunity to spin the other side as evil demons while you demand an investigation is.

If im reading it correctly 21 were rejected in close to 40 years of those 21, 9 were rejected  in Obamas final year

Who were they trying to surveil and why were they rejected?

Add in the fact that one of the most senior DOJ officials was secretly meeting with Steele and Fusion GPS

WE NEED ANSWERS!

Think you need to bold the letters and make them bigger. ;)

It could be a multitude of reasons. Stricter judges, sloppy work on the part of employees, someone chancing their arm for partisan reasons...

I have little knowledge of the workings of the FISA world (same as most people).

On this site, however, there is a note for 2016 regarding a change in the reporting requirements for 2016: https://epic.org/privacy/surveillance/fisa/stats/ (https://epic.org/privacy/surveillance/fisa/stats/)

28. The Government's reporting methodology changed significantly in 2016. The letter states that "In addition to reporting statistics based on the number of final filed applications, as has been the Government's historical practice, this letter also includes for the first time statistics published by the Director of the Administrative Office of the United States Courts (AOUSA). Unlike the Government, the AOUSA reports the number of proposed applications rather than the number of final filed applications. More specifically, Rule 9(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Rules of Procedure requires the Government to submit proposed applications at least seven days before the Government seeks to have a matter entertained by the FISC. Modifications or withdrawals of applications may occur between the filing of a proposed application and the filing of a final application for a variety of reasons, including the Government modifying a proposed application in response to questions or concerns raised by the Court.


Assuming these are the same figures, perhaps the inclusion of "proposed", instead of just "final filed" applications in the numbers is a factor. Would "proposed" applications ever be rushed before a judge and rejected (or otherwise end up as "rejected")?

Possibly not, but again, disclaimer, I have absolutely no clue and am just contributing to a low-information discussion.

For someone who is so adamant that there is skullduggery on the part of the Dems and some FBI people, however, you're very reluctant to draw any conclusions from the patterns and actions of Trump and his associates. Even if you're right on the former, it doesn't preclude wrongdoing on the part of the latter.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 08:39:32 PM
Why are senior DOJ officials holding secret meetings with Steele and Fusion GPS?

Was the FISA judge informed that this was opposition research?

How influential was the dossier in getting the wiretapping warrant?

Had the DOJ attempted to surveillance other Trump associates?

Unless we get answers to these questions the Mueller Investigation is tainted beyond belief.

All these shenanigans are undermining the investigation. 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 08:51:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 08:39:32 PM
Why are senior DOJ officials holding secret meetings with Steele and Fusion GPS?

Was the FISA judge informed that this was opposition research?

How influential was the dossier in getting the wiretapping warrant?

Had the DOJ attempted to surveillance other Trump associates?

Unless we get answers to these questions the Mueller Investigation is tainted beyond belief.

All these shenanigans are undermining the investigation.

Why is Mueller tainted?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 09:12:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 08:51:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 08:39:32 PM
Why are senior DOJ officials holding secret meetings with Steele and Fusion GPS?

Was the FISA judge informed that this was opposition research?

How influential was the dossier in getting the wiretapping warrant?
I
Had the DOJ attempted to surveillance other Trump associates?

Unless we get answers to these questions the Mueller Investigation is tainted beyond belief.

All these shenanigans are undermining the investigation.

Why is Mueller tainted?

I said the Mueller Investigation was tainted, not Mueller himself.....big difference

If the warrants were improperly obtained because someone at the FBI/DOJ either lied or didn't disclose where the dossier came from (add in Bruce Ohrs unauthorized meeting with both Steele and Fusion GPS) the entire investigation can be brushed off as a partisan hit job
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 03, 2018, 09:25:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 09:12:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 03, 2018, 08:51:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 08:39:32 PM
Why are senior DOJ officials holding secret meetings with Steele and Fusion GPS?

Was the FISA judge informed that this was opposition research?

How influential was the dossier in getting the wiretapping warrant?
I
Had the DOJ attempted to surveillance other Trump associates?

Unless we get answers to these questions the Mueller Investigation is tainted beyond belief.

All these shenanigans are undermining the investigation.

Why is Mueller tainted?

I said the Mueller Investigation was tainted, not Mueller himself.....big difference

If the warrants were improperly obtained because someone at the FBI/DOJ either lied or didn't disclose where the dossier came from (add in Bruce Ohrs unauthorized meeting with both Steele and Fusion GPS) the entire investigation can be brushed off as a partisan hit job

Obviously I meant the investigation.

The warrants in question predated the dossier. They key obviously is whether their renewal hinged on the dossier or not.

If they didn't, what does that mean for Mueller?

And what about the obstruction of justice stuff? Does that disappear? If so, Bill Clinton will be having a moment of bitter reflection. Perjured himself and got impeached over testimony over a bj which had nothing to do with the origins of the Starr investigation.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 03, 2018, 10:35:05 PM
Are you sure the warrants predate the dossier

This timeline suggests different

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/politics/wp/2018/01/30/a-complete-timeline-of-the-events-behind-the-memo-that-threatens-to-rip-d-c-in-two/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2018, 12:11:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 10:35:05 PM
Are you sure the warrants predate the dossier

This timeline suggests different

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/politics/wp/2018/01/30/a-complete-timeline-of-the-events-behind-the-memo-that-threatens-to-rip-d-c-in-two/

I stand corrected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 04, 2018, 03:15:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2018, 12:11:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 10:35:05 PM
Are you sure the warrants predate the dossier

This timeline suggests different

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/politics/wp/2018/01/30/a-complete-timeline-of-the-events-behind-the-memo-that-threatens-to-rip-d-c-in-two/

I stand corrected.

You sure do!
)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2018, 03:42:14 PM
Quote from: stew on February 04, 2018, 03:15:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2018, 12:11:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 03, 2018, 10:35:05 PM
Are you sure the warrants predate the dossier

This timeline suggests different

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/politics/wp/2018/01/30/a-complete-timeline-of-the-events-behind-the-memo-that-threatens-to-rip-d-c-in-two/

I stand corrected.

You sure do!
)

Its a line that I have seen repeated from several sources but its simply not true

There was a guy (R) on the morning shows who is on the intelligence committee and he states that there is a verified direct line of communication between the DNC and the DOJ and that there are more revelations coming.

Bruce Ohr and his wife are central figures in this



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 04, 2018, 05:34:00 PM
Just because someone says something is true on TV doesn't make it so...

Witness "trickle down economics" verifiably nonsense but spouted by every advocate of the tax bill, even on TV.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2018, 06:41:23 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 04, 2018, 05:34:00 PM
Just because someone says something is true on TV doesn't make it so...

Witness "trickle down economics" verifiably nonsense but spouted by every advocate of the tax bill, even on TV.

Time will tell whether it's true or not.....and Schiff has now lost all moral authority to stop it based on his histrionics last week

All of a sudden I'm more optimistic about the November election as I was a month ago

Generic ballots have tightened considerably and supposedly Republicans have a big money advantage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 04, 2018, 09:36:47 PM
Can't think why they might have a financial advantage?
Nope, no idea why, maybe they get more votes so more people donate?

No hang on, there might be something else..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 04, 2018, 09:40:54 PM
Unless of course you are optimistic that the elected representatives might actually represent the 90 per cent of the country in the middle of the clowns to the left and the jokers to the right?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2018, 09:48:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2018, 06:41:23 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 04, 2018, 05:34:00 PM
Just because someone says something is true on TV doesn't make it so...

Witness "trickle down economics" verifiably nonsense but spouted by every advocate of the tax bill, even on TV.

Time will tell whether it's true or not.....and Schiff has now lost all moral authority to stop it based on his histrionics last week

All of a sudden I'm more optimistic about the November election as I was a month ago

Generic ballots have tightened considerably and supposedly Republicans have a big money advantage
Something very bad will prolly happen to the GOP/Trump before November.  He is running his administration for the plutocrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2018, 09:54:10 PM
@ddale8

After intense lobbying from payday loan companies, Indiana Republicans voted to allow them to charge interest rates three times higher than what current Indiana criminal law defines as felony loansharking:
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2018, 10:02:26 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/republican-national-committee-has-huge-financial-edge-heading-into-2018-midterms/2018/02/01/c7704056-06af-11e8-94e8-e8b8600ade23_story.html


"President Trump's robust small-donor base helped the Republican National Committee vastly outraise its Democratic counterpart in 2017 as the two parties geared up for a crucial midterm campaign season, new Federal Election Commission filings show."


Democrats are a shambles....5 separate responses to the SOTU...clueless


Keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2018, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2018, 02:13:12 PM
What sort of reputation has Nunes?

Anybody?

Also, can anybody tell me how long this Carter Page chap was under investigation for, and why he was under investigation?
Nobody willing to field this one?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 04, 2018, 11:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 04, 2018, 09:48:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2018, 06:41:23 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 04, 2018, 05:34:00 PM
Just because someone says something is true on TV doesn't make it so...

Witness "trickle down economics" verifiably nonsense but spouted by every advocate of the tax bill, even on TV.

Time will tell whether it's true or not.....and Schiff has now lost all moral authority to stop it based on his histrionics last week

All of a sudden I'm more optimistic about the November election as I was a month ago

Generic ballots have tightened considerably and supposedly Republicans have a big money advantage
Something very bad will prolly happen to the GOP/Trump before November.  He is running his administration for the plutocrats.

Holy shit Seafoid. You?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 12:46:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2018, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2018, 02:13:12 PM
What sort of reputation has Nunes?

Anybody?

Also, can anybody tell me how long this Carter Page chap was under investigation for, and why he was under investigation?
Nobody willing to field this one?

Depends on who you ask.....Republicans think thes great and Democrats think hes a rabid partisan whos endangering National Security.  Just Schiff in reverse

From my vantage point the whole collusion narrative and dossier are just a textbook Clinton/DNC dirty trick.  As such I really dont carethat the Republican are breaking every rule in the book to expose it.....you have to fight fire with fire


This is probably the best explanation of what Page is all about


https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-trump-aide-carter-page-was-on-u-s-counterintelligence-radar-before-russia-dossier-1517486401

(let me know if its behind a firewall and Ill cut and paste the article)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 05, 2018, 02:33:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2018, 10:02:26 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/republican-national-committee-has-huge-financial-edge-heading-into-2018-midterms/2018/02/01/c7704056-06af-11e8-94e8-e8b8600ade23_story.html


"President Trump's robust small-donor base helped the Republican National Committee vastly outraise its Democratic counterpart in 2017 as the two parties geared up for a crucial midterm campaign season, new Federal Election Commission filings show."


Democrats are a shambles....5 separate responses to the SOTU...clueless


Keep it up
But this is 2018
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/27/politics/koch-republican-election-candidates-donate/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 03:06:43 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 05, 2018, 02:33:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2018, 10:02:26 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/republican-national-committee-has-huge-financial-edge-heading-into-2018-midterms/2018/02/01/c7704056-06af-11e8-94e8-e8b8600ade23_story.html


"President Trump's robust small-donor base helped the Republican National Committee vastly outraise its Democratic counterpart in 2017 as the two parties geared up for a crucial midterm campaign season, new Federal Election Commission filings show."


Democrats are a shambles....5 separate responses to the SOTU...clueless


Keep it up
But this is 2018
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/27/politics/koch-republican-election-candidates-donate/index.html

keep spinning and diverting......its worked out great for the Democrats so far-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 05, 2018, 04:55:28 AM
Whitey,
Your world view is a cause of the problem, not a symptom. Don't like it, therefore spin Hilary libtard left conspiracy.

It's everyone else's fault, poor me, someone needs to come along and sort out my issues. Under educated white people basking in decides old world views and shunning reality.

To be clear about this, the mirror image is available for consumption on the left also.
Rich Republicans screwing me, same exact refrain, but blame squarely placed elsewhere. If you listen, you will hear my way or the highway, racist, communist, Nazi, socialist blah blah.

Step back for a day, look at facts instead of opinions, make your own mind up not on the shit floating on your own pool, but at the country.

The infrastructure debt, the national debt, the growing gap between have and have not. The education crisis, the healthcare crisis, the Opiod epidemic. The broken tax system, special interests, lobbyist, the state of the trains, the roads, the buses. The electrical grid, droughts, water, guns, welfare, education system, cable, wireless, banking system. Rich political donors shaping policy, shaping news, shaping opinion. Poor people thanking God our Lord and savior for one thing, pushing capital punishment and racism for the other.

America is close to broken, and needs help and neither side gives a shit about doing anything other than getting reelected or getting the lobbyist gig. To quote Dave Chapelle, If we had any sense, than his government might be the catalyst for change, but probably not...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2018, 06:48:37 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 04, 2018, 11:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 04, 2018, 09:48:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2018, 06:41:23 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 04, 2018, 05:34:00 PM
Just because someone says something is true on TV doesn't make it so...

Witness "trickle down economics" verifiably nonsense but spouted by every advocate of the tax bill, even on TV.

Time will tell whether it's true or not.....and Schiff has now lost all moral authority to stop it based on his histrionics last week

All of a sudden I'm more optimistic about the November election as I was a month ago

Generic ballots have tightened considerably and supposedly Republicans have a big money advantage
Something very bad will prolly happen to the GOP/Trump before November.  He is running his administration for the plutocrats.

Holy shit Seafoid. You?
It's the US thread !
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 05, 2018, 11:40:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2018, 12:46:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2018, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2018, 02:13:12 PM
What sort of reputation has Nunes?

Anybody?

Also, can anybody tell me how long this Carter Page chap was under investigation for, and why he was under investigation?
Nobody willing to field this one?

Depends on who you ask.....Republicans think thes great and Democrats think hes a rabid partisan whos endangering National Security.  Just Schiff in reverse

From my vantage point the whole collusion narrative and dossier are just a textbook Clinton/DNC dirty trick.  As such I really dont carethat the Republican are breaking every rule in the book to expose it.....you have to fight fire with fire


This is probably the best explanation of what Page is all about


https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-trump-aide-carter-page-was-on-u-s-counterintelligence-radar-before-russia-dossier-1517486401

(let me know if its behind a firewall and Ill cut and paste the article)
Is it true Nunes has a record of inventing fake "scandals" to benefit Trump?

Such as, say, last year, inventing a "whistleblower", who turned out to be a White House adviser, who had fed him bogus information about the supposed "unlawful unmasking" by senior officials in the Obama administration of the identities of Trump campaign officials caught on foreign intelligence intercepts.

Then Nunes staged a visit to the White House to "inform" them of bogus information that the White House had given him in the first place!

As a result of discrediting himself, Nunes had to recuse himself from the House Russia investigation.

He has not done this.

Last year, Nunes said about Trump's links to Russia: "They've looked," he said, "and it's all a dead trail that leads me to believe no contact, not even pizza-delivery-guy contract."

This was patently not true.

Nunes also tried to create a fake scandal about the baseless Uranium One allegations.

So, all told, it's fair to say this Nunes chap has a proven record of attempting to create fake scandals in an attempt to discredit anybody who investigates Trump.

That means that he is a person of no credibility.

Yet this same person of no credibility is the same person whose memo the Republicans are hanging their hat on yet again in an effort to create another fake scandal.

And once again it appears he has colluded with Trump in order to create this fake scandal.



As for Carter Page, can you tell me it's true whether he was on the FBI's radar from as far back as 2013 because he was being cultivated by a Russian spy ring?

Is it true he travelled to Moscow in July 2016 to make a fervently pro-Russian speech which castigated the US?

Does this sound like a person of interest? If you ask me, I'd say "hell yes".

Is it true the Trump campaign was forced to quietly drop him in September 2016?

Is it true that at the time of the FISA warrant against him in October 2016, he was no longer working for Trump?

Because Trump supporters have been constantly telling us that the Trump campaign was illegally under surveillance.

Yet they have i) not  been able to say where any law was broken and ii) the person through which they claim the Trump campaign was under surveillance, wasn't even working for Trump.

And thus, this whole "scandal" is exposed for what it is - a fake load of nonsense concocted by somebody with no credibility whatsoever in attempt to get rid of the Mueller investigation into Trump.

I can't think why Trump and the likes of Nunes would want to get rid of that investigation.  ;D








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2018, 12:01:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2018, 11:40:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2018, 12:46:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2018, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2018, 02:13:12 PM
What sort of reputation has Nunes?

Anybody?

Also, can anybody tell me how long this Carter Page chap was under investigation for, and why he was under investigation?
Nobody willing to field this one?

Depends on who you ask.....Republicans think thes great and Democrats think hes a rabid partisan whos endangering National Security.  Just Schiff in reverse

From my vantage point the whole collusion narrative and dossier are just a textbook Clinton/DNC dirty trick.  As such I really dont carethat the Republican are breaking every rule in the book to expose it.....you have to fight fire with fire


This is probably the best explanation of what Page is all about


https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-trump-aide-carter-page-was-on-u-s-counterintelligence-radar-before-russia-dossier-1517486401

(let me know if its behind a firewall and Ill cut and paste the article)
Is it true Nunes has a record of inventing fake "scandals" to benefit Trump?

Such as, say, last year, inventing a "whistleblower", who turned out to be a White House adviser, who had fed him bogus information about the supposed "unlawful unmasking" by senior officials in the Obama administration of the identities of Trump campaign officials caught on foreign intelligence intercepts.

Then Nunes staged a visit to the White House to "inform" them of bogus information that the White House had given him in the first place!

As a result of discrediting himself, Nunes had to recuse himself from the House Russia investigation.

He has not done this.

Last year, Nunes said about Trump's links to Russia: "They've looked," he said, "and it's all a dead trail that leads me to believe no contact, not even pizza-delivery-guy contract."

This was patently not true.

Nunes also tried to create a fake scandal about the baseless Uranium One allegations.

So, all told, it's fair to say this Nunes chap has a proven record of attempting to create fake scandals in an attempt to discredit anybody who investigates Trump.

That means that he is a person of no credibility.

Yet this same person of no credibility is the same person whose memo the Republicans are hanging their hat on yet again in an effort to create another fake scandal.

And once again it appears he has colluded with Trump in order to create this fake scandal.



As for Carter Page, can you tell me it's true whether he was on the FBI's radar from as far back as 2013 because he was being cultivated by a Russian spy ring?

Is it true he travelled to Moscow in July 2016 to make a fervently pro-Russian speech which castigated the US?

Does this sound like a person of interest? If you ask me, I'd say "hell yes".

Is it true the Trump campaign was forced to quietly drop him in September 2016?

Is it true that at the time of the FISA warrant against him in October 2016, he was no longer working for Trump?

Because Trump supporters have been constantly telling us that the Trump campaign was illegally under surveillance.

Yet they have i) not  been able to say where any law was broken and ii) the person through which they claim the Trump campaign was under surveillance, wasn't even working for Trump.

And thus, this whole "scandal" is exposed for what it is - a fake load of nonsense concocted by somebody with no credibility whatsoever in attempt to get rid of the Mueller investigation into Trump.

I can't think why Trump and the likes of Nunes would want to get rid of that investigation.  ;D

The GOP is in a parallel reality where whatever Trump says is reality. This is how plutocracy works. 
@ajjaffe

·

2h

PA GOP Rep. Charlie Dent tells me "I've never seen a situation where the president or the White House seems to be in a battle with its own government. So this is almost unprecedented...maybe during Watergate we saw something similar but not since then.


Norman Ornstein Retweeted


Evan McMullin

@Evan_McMullin

·

7h

We're so desensitized that it almost seems normal now, but the extent to which Trump has succeeded in casting one of the most important national security investigations in our history as just another partisan political battle is astonishing, and a danger itself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 12:16:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2018, 11:40:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2018, 12:46:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2018, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2018, 02:13:12 PM
What sort of reputation has Nunes?

Anybody?

Also, can anybody tell me how long this Carter Page chap was under investigation for, and why he was under investigation?
Nobody willing to field this one?

Depends on who you ask.....Republicans think thes great and Democrats think hes a rabid partisan whos endangering National Security.  Just Schiff in reverse

From my vantage point the whole collusion narrative and dossier are just a textbook Clinton/DNC dirty trick.  As such I really dont carethat the Republican are breaking every rule in the book to expose it.....you have to fight fire with fire


This is probably the best explanation of what Page is all about


https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-trump-aide-carter-page-was-on-u-s-counterintelligence-radar-before-russia-dossier-1517486401

(let me know if its behind a firewall and Ill cut and paste the article)
Is it true Nunes has a record of inventing fake "scandals" to benefit Trump?

Such as, say, last year, inventing a "whistleblower", who turned out to be a White House adviser, who had fed him bogus information about the supposed "unlawful unmasking" by senior officials in the Obama administration of the identities of Trump campaign officials caught on foreign intelligence intercepts.

Then Nunes staged a visit to the White House to "inform" them of bogus information that the White House had given him in the first place!

As a result of discrediting himself, Nunes had to recuse himself from the House Russia investigation.

He has not done this.

Last year, Nunes said about Trump's links to Russia: "They've looked," he said, "and it's all a dead trail that leads me to believe no contact, not even pizza-delivery-guy contract."

This was patently not true.

Nunes also tried to create a fake scandal about the baseless Uranium One allegations.

So, all told, it's fair to say this Nunes chap has a proven record of attempting to create fake scandals in an attempt to discredit anybody who investigates Trump.

That means that he is a person of no credibility.

Yet this same person of no credibility is the same person whose memo the Republicans are hanging their hat on yet again in an effort to create another fake scandal.

And once again it appears he has colluded with Trump in order to create this fake scandal.



As for Carter Page, can you tell me it's true whether he was on the FBI's radar from as far back as 2013 because he was being cultivated by a Russian spy ring?

Is it true he travelled to Moscow in July 2016 to make a fervently pro-Russian speech which castigated the US?

Does this sound like a person of interest? If you ask me, I'd say "hell yes".

Is it true the Trump campaign was forced to quietly drop him in September 2016?

Is it true that at the time of the FISA warrant against him in October 2016, he was no longer working for Trump?

Because Trump supporters have been constantly telling us that the Trump campaign was illegally under surveillance.

Yet they have i) not  been able to say where any law was broken and ii) the person through which they claim the Trump campaign was under surveillance, wasn't even working for Trump.

And thus, this whole "scandal" is exposed for what it is - a fake load of nonsense concocted by somebody with no credibility whatsoever in attempt to get rid of the Mueller investigation into Trump.

I can't think why Trump and the likes of Nunes would want to get rid of that investigation.  ;D

So you think it is a false scandal that a political campaign was wiretapped, and a piece of unverified opposition research paid for by the Clinton campaign was at least part of the application for the warrant?

You think it's a false scandal that the # 4 in the DOJ held secret and unauthorized meetings with Fusion GPS and Chris Steele? (And has been demoted)

So you think it's a false scandal that the same DOJ officials wife worked for Fusion GPS who produced the false dossier  and this was never disclosed?

You think it's a false scandal the the FBI agent of charge of the Hillary campaign stated that he feared retribution from the Clintons if we went into the investigation "loaded for bear"? (Assuming a Clinton victory  which was a foregone conclusion at the time he made the statement)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2018, 12:19:21 PM
Attaboy whitey - keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2018, 12:34:39 PM
Politicising the fbi

https://www.axios.com/gop-turns-on-fbi-survey-78c4f486-8755-4c9e-be99-a1567bd3a625.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 12:58:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 05, 2018, 12:34:39 PM
Politicising the fbi

https://www.axios.com/gop-turns-on-fbi-survey-78c4f486-8755-4c9e-be99-a1567bd3a625.html

Adhering to the Marquis of Queensbury Rules isn't going to do you much good when it comes to dealing with the Clintons and the DNC.....you have to get down to their level. I'm delighted to see Nunez and the Republicans fighting fire with fire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2018, 01:00:30 PM
@ariehkovler

·

22h

The alt-Right has moved on from the FBI and started attacking the FISA judge. Once Fox runs it and Trump sees it onto stage 2. Attack the judges.

David Frum

@davidfrum

·

Feb 4

Nearly correct use of ellipses and absence of random capitalization/quotation marks suggests not a personal Trump tweet- but still an alarming escalation of pressure on FBI by this White House

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

"The four page memo released Friday reports the disturbing fact about how the FBI and FISA appear to have been used to influence the 2016 election and its aftermath.

Jim VandeHei

@JimVandeHei

·

Feb 3

Exclusive poll: GOP turns on FBI bigtime. Never underestimate Trump's power to reshape GOP views. He did it on Russia. Then Mueller. Now the FBI. Not long ago: the GOP loathed Russia, loved Mueller, celebrated the FBI...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2018, 01:02:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2018, 12:58:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 05, 2018, 12:34:39 PM
Politicising the fbi

https://www.axios.com/gop-turns-on-fbi-survey-78c4f486-8755-4c9e-be99-a1567bd3a625.html

Adhering to the Marquis of Queensbury Rules isn't going to do you much good when it comes to dealing with the Clintons and the DNC.....you have to get down to their level. I'm delighted to see Nunez and the Republicans fighting fire with fire
The plutocrats want your 401k.They will get it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 01:16:47 PM
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/flashback-adam-schiff-called-fisa-transparency-russian-tv/


Hahaha-can't make this up. Schiff on Russian TV arguing for more FISA transparency
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 05, 2018, 01:51:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2018, 12:16:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 05, 2018, 11:40:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 05, 2018, 12:46:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2018, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 03, 2018, 02:13:12 PM
What sort of reputation has Nunes?

Anybody?

Also, can anybody tell me how long this Carter Page chap was under investigation for, and why he was under investigation?
Nobody willing to field this one?

Depends on who you ask.....Republicans think thes great and Democrats think hes a rabid partisan whos endangering National Security.  Just Schiff in reverse

From my vantage point the whole collusion narrative and dossier are just a textbook Clinton/DNC dirty trick.  As such I really dont carethat the Republican are breaking every rule in the book to expose it.....you have to fight fire with fire


This is probably the best explanation of what Page is all about


https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-trump-aide-carter-page-was-on-u-s-counterintelligence-radar-before-russia-dossier-1517486401

(let me know if its behind a firewall and Ill cut and paste the article)
Is it true Nunes has a record of inventing fake "scandals" to benefit Trump?

Such as, say, last year, inventing a "whistleblower", who turned out to be a White House adviser, who had fed him bogus information about the supposed "unlawful unmasking" by senior officials in the Obama administration of the identities of Trump campaign officials caught on foreign intelligence intercepts.

Then Nunes staged a visit to the White House to "inform" them of bogus information that the White House had given him in the first place!

As a result of discrediting himself, Nunes had to recuse himself from the House Russia investigation.

He has not done this.

Last year, Nunes said about Trump's links to Russia: "They've looked," he said, "and it's all a dead trail that leads me to believe no contact, not even pizza-delivery-guy contract."

This was patently not true.

Nunes also tried to create a fake scandal about the baseless Uranium One allegations.

So, all told, it's fair to say this Nunes chap has a proven record of attempting to create fake scandals in an attempt to discredit anybody who investigates Trump.

That means that he is a person of no credibility.

Yet this same person of no credibility is the same person whose memo the Republicans are hanging their hat on yet again in an effort to create another fake scandal.

And once again it appears he has colluded with Trump in order to create this fake scandal.



As for Carter Page, can you tell me it's true whether he was on the FBI's radar from as far back as 2013 because he was being cultivated by a Russian spy ring?

Is it true he travelled to Moscow in July 2016 to make a fervently pro-Russian speech which castigated the US?

Does this sound like a person of interest? If you ask me, I'd say "hell yes".

Is it true the Trump campaign was forced to quietly drop him in September 2016?

Is it true that at the time of the FISA warrant against him in October 2016, he was no longer working for Trump?

Because Trump supporters have been constantly telling us that the Trump campaign was illegally under surveillance.

Yet they have i) not  been able to say where any law was broken and ii) the person through which they claim the Trump campaign was under surveillance, wasn't even working for Trump.

And thus, this whole "scandal" is exposed for what it is - a fake load of nonsense concocted by somebody with no credibility whatsoever in attempt to get rid of the Mueller investigation into Trump.

I can't think why Trump and the likes of Nunes would want to get rid of that investigation.  ;D

So you think it is a false scandal that a political campaign was wiretapped, and a piece of unverified opposition research paid for by the Clinton campaign was at least part of the application for the warrant?

You think it's a false scandal that the # 4 in the DOJ held secret and unauthorized meetings with Fusion GPS and Chris Steele? (And has been demoted)

So you think it's a false scandal that the same DOJ officials wife worked for Fusion GPS who produced the false dossier  and this was never disclosed?

You think it's a false scandal the the FBI agent of charge of the Hillary campaign stated that he feared retribution from the Clintons if we went into the investigation "loaded for bear"? (Assuming a Clinton victory  which was a foregone conclusion at the time he made the statement)

A political campaign was wiretapped?

You're making this claim and yet haven't come up with any evidence?

Who exactly in the Trump campaign was wiretapped?

What law has been broken here? Neither you nor the "memo" are able to say.

You and other Trump supporters have made all these grandiose claims about how the FBI "tried to undermine" the Trump campaign.

Yet you have never answered the most obvious question.

Why did news that the FBI was investigating the Trump campaign (and it would have been an absolute dereliction of duty not to given the intelligence from numerous sources) not break in the media until after the election?

If the FBI or Obama wanted to undermine the Trump campaign, they would have just spilled the beans about the investigation before the election.

It's absolutely comical that people like you think that serious allegations and evidence of collusion with a hostile foreign power shows bias on the part of the FBI. Real parallel universe stuff.

You didn't respond to the question of Nunes's credibility, by the way, likely because you know full well he has none. He's the Alex Jones of US politics - an absolute joke.

Interesting that you don't elaborate on whether Carter Page was a known Russian asset. I'll give you a hint: he was.

Do you think Carter Page is the type of person that should have been under surveillance? Hint: he very definitely was the type of person should have been under surveillance.

The memo admits that the reason Page was under surveillance was because of info about Papadopoulos.

And thus it is a complete and utter dud.

In any event, let's say for the craic that even if the Steele dossier had been the only source of evidence about Page in order to obtain a FISA warrant (which it wasn't), what's the problem?

It's up to a FISA court to determine whether evidence produced to obtain such a warrant is credible or not.

They determined it was, and they knew that the source of the evidence was political. Where evidence comes from doesn't matter a jot as long as it is credible.

The memo doesn't dispute the credibility of the evidence.

A FISA warrant will only be renewed as long as it's producing new information to merit an extension of that warrant. It was. Three times.

One of those times by Rosenstein.

And this is the crux of all this. Trump wants rid of Rosenstein because Rosenstein is actually doing his job.

And for Trump to get away with obstruction of justice, money laundering and collusion, he needs people in key positions to not do their jobs.

This "fake scandal" is a transparent attempt by a president who is guilty as hell to try and evade justice.











Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 02:33:54 PM
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/flashback-adam-schiff-called-fisa-transparency-russian-tv/


What do you think of this?

Schiff hasn't  one ounce of credibility

Dems will be sorry they started this whole witch hunt-major shit will be coming out about them in the near future

Remember where you heard about it first when it happens
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2018, 03:08:06 PM
That trusted website - The American Mirror - hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


Talking about credibility - on Fox and Friends this morning - Nunes said "As far as we can tell, Papadopoulos had never even met with the President"

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171030111717-george-papadopoulos-with-trump-super-169.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2018, 03:08:06 PM
That trusted website - The American Mirror - hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


Talking about credibility - on Fox and Friends this morning - Nunes said "As far as we can tell, Papadopoulos had never even met with the President"

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171030111717-george-papadopoulos-with-trump-super-169.jpg)

Are you saying the video clip is a forgery? 

Are you sayingnthat this is an actor impersonating Schiff?

So instead of explaining why Schiff is demanding more transparency on the FISA process on RUSSIAN TV.....you conveniently attack the source (even thought its a fvckin video clip of him speaking).....and then change the subject.


Funny how CNN or MSNBC isnt alerting its viewers to the video clip......or having Schiff on to explain his hypocrisy. 

As I said before, if Nunes and the Republicans have to play dirty to counteract the DNC and the Clinton dirty trick machine more power to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2018, 03:35:26 PM
funny how you just ignore Nunes being a liar


but like I say - keep fighting the good fight on a GAA Message Board  - maybe Mueller will take a look in here and see you have the case cracked
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2018, 03:35:26 PM
funny how you just ignore Nunes being a liar


but like I say - keep fighting the good fight on a GAA Message Board  - maybe Mueller will take a look in here and see you have the case cracked

Of course hes a liar.....just like Schiff and the Democrats are liars

If your confronted by liars, you counteract them by making up lies yourself....ie fighting fire with fire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 05, 2018, 04:02:57 PM
* you're

Just checking.

Your point is that the Republicans and Trump lie and make stuff up, only because the Democrats started it? Otherwise they would be as white and pure as a Tide Ad?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 05, 2018, 04:02:57 PM
* you're

Just checking.

Your point is that the Republicans and Trump lie and make stuff up, only because the Democrats started it? Otherwise they would be as white and pure as a Tide Ad?

Both sides do it. 

The country club republicans would be lying in the foetal position crying that it isnt fair, but the Trump wing are meeting fire with fire and ai have no problem with that

(You and others seem unwilling to accept that both the Clinton Email and Russia investigations were seriously compromised.  How can the 4th highest official the DOJ have secret unauthorized  meetings with Steele and Fusion GPS and you not have a problem with that?)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2018, 04:17:06 PM
The Nunes memo is pure distraction.
30,000 Americans will die this year because of addiction to opioids. 20% of the fall in the labor participation force is due to opioid addiction. One family has made billions from the sale of Oxycontin. The Sacklers
The GOP is funded by people like the Sacklers.

Whitey is on the same team as muintir opioid. He doesn't get it yet. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgtzZ-mOQo

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2018, 05:05:59 PM
this lad has it cracked

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVSC4lzV4AIaN4i.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 05, 2018, 05:28:06 PM
All this trust that Republicans have in the proven liar Devin Nunes is very funny.

Nunes claimed in March 2017 that he'd never heard of Carter Page or Roger Stone.  ;D

He's the political equivalent of Trump's "what is a courtroom?" federal judge appointees.

And I'd wager he's up to his neck in dodgy shit himself.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2018, 05:55:41 PM
Believe whatever you all want

Its all coming down on Clinton and Obama big time.....new memo just released in the past couple of hours

Haha....I think Trump may have sprung a trap for Schiff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 05, 2018, 06:08:24 PM
And here's official confirmation that Nunes is a corrupt, lying shit.

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump
Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump
More

Representative Devin Nunes, a man of tremendous courage and grit, may someday be recognized as a Great American Hero for what he has exposed and what he has had to endure!

7:08 AM - 5 Feb 2018
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2018, 06:58:04 PM
The Atlantic

@TheAtlantic

If conservatives want to save the GOP from itself, they need to vote mindlessly and mechanically against its nominees, @jon_rauch and @benjaminwittes argue: (link: http://theatln.tc/2GNO1QV) theatln.tc/2GNO1QV

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 05, 2018, 08:56:03 PM
Haven't heard much about the wonderful stock market performance under the commander in chief since last Thursday. Can't think why?

"Stock market increased 5.2 trillion since election..., if congress gives us massive tax cuts and reform those numbers will grow by leaps and bounds....really nice of fake news would report the virtually unprecedented stock market growth since the election"
Oct 11 2017

Or maybe president has little to do with it and he should be careful opening his trap when it's up, because when he gets what he wants and it drops like a stone, he's gonna get the blame...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 05, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
But stew's 401k has never been better and it was all down to Trump??

I'm confused!! :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 05, 2018, 10:57:18 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 05, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
But stew's 401k has never been better and it was all down to Trump??

I'm confused!! :o

Of course you are! That is your natural state of being.

MI do not understand how living in a country with its democracy established over 200 years ago, and now, for the first time in history, suddenly we have one of our former presidents set up a group called "Organizing for Action" (OFA).
OFA is 30,000+ strong and working to disrupt everything that our current president's administration is trying to do. This organization goes against our Democracy, and it is an operation that will destroy our way of governing. It goes against our Constitution, our laws, and the processes established over 200 years ago. If it is allowed to proceed then we will be living in chaos very much like third world countries are run. What good is it to have an established government if it is not going to be respected and allowed to follow our laws?

If you had an army some 30,000 strong and a court system stacked over the decades with judges who would allow you to break the laws, how much damage could you do to a country? We are about to find out in America!

Our ex-president said he was going to stay involved through community organizing and speak out on the issues and that appears to be one post-administration promise he intends to keep. He has moved many of his administration's top dogs over to Organizing for Action.

OFA is behind the strategic and tactical implementation of the resistance to the Trump Administration that we are seeing across America, and politically active courts are providing the leverage for this revolution.

OFA is dedicated to organizing communities for "progressive" change. Its issues are gun control, socialist healthcare, abortion, sexual equality, climate change, and of course, immigration reform.

OFA members were propped up by the ex-president's message from the shadows: "Organizing is the building block of everything great we have accomplished Organizers around the country are fighting for change in their communities and OFA is one of the groups on the front lines. Commit to this work in 2017 and beyond."

OFA's website says it obtained its "digital" assets from the ex-president's re-election effort and that he inspired the movement. In short, it is the shadow government organization aimed at resisting and tearing down the Constitutional Republic we know as AMERICA.

Paul Sperry, writing for the New York Post, says, "The OFA will fight President Donald Trump at every turn of his presidency and the ex-president will command them from a bunker less than two miles from the White House."

Sperry writes that, "The ex-president is setting up a shadow government to sabotage the Trump administration through a network of non-profits led by OFA, which is growing its war chest (more than $40 million) and has some 250 offices nationwide. The OFA IRS filings, according to Sperry, indicate that the OFA has 32,525 (and growing) volunteers nationwide. The ex-president and his wife will oversee the operation from their home/ office in Washington DC.

Think about how this works.. For example: Trump issues an immigration executive order; the OFA signals for protests and statements from pro-immigrant groups; the ACLU lawyers file lawsuits in jurisdictions where activist judges obstruct the laws; volunteers are called to protest at airports and Congressional town hall meetings; the leftist media springs to action in support of these activities; the twitter sphere lights up with social media; and violence follows. All of this happens from the ex-president's signal that he is heartened by the protests.

If Barack Obama did not do enough to destroy this country in the 8 years he was in office, it appears his future plans are to destroy the foundation on which this country has operated on for the last 241 years.

If this does not scare you, then we are in worse trouble than you know.

So, do your part. You have read it, so at least pass this on so others will know what we are up against. We are losing our country and we are so compliant. We are becoming a "PERFECT TARGET" for our enemy!

Charles Krauthammer



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2018, 11:06:47 PM
Yeah - Krauthammer never wrote any of that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 06, 2018, 12:40:57 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2018, 11:06:47 PM
Yeah - Krauthammer never wrote any of that

Really? Who wrote it then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 12:48:14 AM
QuoteThe claim that Krauthammer penned this op-ed seems to have originated on the the web site Nesara News, which introduced the text with a brief paragraph lauding the credibility of the conservative columnist on 11 October 2017. The web site also claimed that the article had appeared in the New York Post:

This article was never published in the New York Post, nor was it written by Charles Krauthammer. In fact, the Post's author page for Krauthammer only lists two articles, both of which were published in 2009, and neither of which dealt with Organizing for Action.

The majority of this text originated in a 13 February 2017 blog post on "The Daily Jot," nearly 8 months before Krauthammer's name was erroneously attached to it. The post was entitled "The Perilous Times We Live In" and attributed to Christian journalist Bill Wilson.

With the exception of the opening and closing paragraphs, Wilson's article and the "Krauthammer" article are practically identical. Here's a comparison of the two articles with the shared text highlighted:

(https://us-east-1.tchyn.io/snopes-production/uploads/2017/10/article-comparison.jpg)


Wilson confirmed to us via email that he is the original author of this op-ed. Mike Watson, a research assistant for Krauthammer, also told us via email that this op-ed did not originate with the conservative columnist:

Dr. Krauthammer did not write it and has nothing to do with it.

Krauthammer's name was simply tacked onto the end of this article in an attempt to lend it an air of credibility.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 12:54:34 AM
This forum is very lucky to have pro-Trump posters who educate everybody with articles from such reputable sources as The Daily Jot and the American Mirror.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 12:57:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 12:54:34 AM
This forum is very lucky to have pro-Trump posters who educate everybody with articles from such reputable sources as The Daily Jot and the American Mirror.

Theyre about as credible as CNN or the NY Times
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:04:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 12:57:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 12:54:34 AM
This forum is very lucky to have pro-Trump posters who educate everybody with articles from such reputable sources as The Daily Jot and the American Mirror.

Theyre about as credible as CNN or the NY Times
Sure they are. I'm sure they're "centrist", or something, eh.

Keep it up, as you like to say yourself.

In the meantime, here's an article with actual research about how Republicans are using bots to distort the news landscape for their own ends.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/04/trump-twitter-russians-release-the-memo-216935
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 01:30:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:04:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 12:57:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 12:54:34 AM
This forum is very lucky to have pro-Trump posters who educate everybody with articles from such reputable sources as The Daily Jot and the American Mirror.

Theyre about as credible as CNN or the NY Times
Sure they are. I'm sure they're "centrist", or something, eh.

Keep it up, as you like to say yourself.

In the meantime, here's an article with actual research about how Republicans are using bots to distort the news landscape for their own ends.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/04/trump-twitter-russians-release-the-memo-216935

Who cares.....whatever it takes to defeat the DNC and the Clintons is just fine with me

Harry Reid accused Mitt Romney from the floor of the senate of not having paid taxes for over a decade......do you remember what Harry he said when it was pointed out to him that it was all a lie?   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/15/harry-reid-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes-hes-still-not-sorry/?utm_term=.b8c9ab6bcc92
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 01:40:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 12:57:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 12:54:34 AM
This forum is very lucky to have pro-Trump posters who educate everybody with articles from such reputable sources as The Daily Jot and the American Mirror.

Theyre about as credible as CNN or the NY Times

Did you hit your head recently?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 06, 2018, 05:03:29 AM
Stew and whitey. Need to do better lads, That was poor
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 06:05:02 AM
Trump.is the master of distraction


https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/2/5/16966726/trump-show

"Like many American political journalists, I spent much of last week entranced by the drama surrounding Devin Nunes's memo about the origins of court-ordered surveillance of Carter Page. Then when the memo's text was finally revealed, I found myself surprised by what a pile of risible nonsense it was. And then I found myself moderately surprised that I'd been surprised about this — somehow suckered into believing for a minute that there was a shred of merit to this dog-and-pony show.

Meanwhile, Friday evening I got around to reading the Wall Street Journal's exhaustive review of FBI agent Peter Strzok's text message exchanges with government lawyer Lisa Page, which concluded there was no anti-Trump bias or conspiracy there after all.

When I caught up on the rest of my tabs from the week I noticed something else. There were a bunch of articles published recently about things happening in American politics that are making a real difference in actual people's lives. Stories that haven't attracted nearly as much discussion as the GOP's bad-faith pushback on Robert Mueller and the counter-pushback from Democrats, but that have the virtue of not being total nonsense. Stories that, frankly, paint a frightening picture of the direction in which the country is heading."

But a huge number of stories about things that have a real, concrete impact on people's lives came to light.

Ben Penn reported that Labor Department political appointees spiked an internal economic analysis of a new rule governing the handling of tips received by millions of workers in the food service industry. If the suppressed report is correct, the rule the Trump administration is promulgating could cost workers billions of dollars in lost income.The Centers for Disease Control reported that flu hospitalizations in the United States are taking place at a record pace, while Vox's own Sarah Kliff reported on how Congress's defunding of Community Health Centers is creating a crisis of health care access for 26 million Americans.In separate CDC news, Lena Sun of the Washington Post reported that CDC efforts to halt new outbreaks of exotic infectious diseases abroad are headed for an 80 percent cut.Kriston Capps reported for CityLab that the Department of Housing and Urban Development is considering new work requirements for recipients of public housing assistance, measures that would impose hardship on some of the most deprived people in the country.Separately, Rachel Cohen and Zaid Jilani of the Intercept reported on HUD consideration of proposals to raise rents for public housing users.Yet another HUD story has reporters from both the Washington Post and CNN uncovering considerable evidence that HUD Secretary Ben Carson's son, who does not work at HUD, is nonetheless intimately involved in HUD business mostly in ways designed to benefit himself personally.Mick Mulvaney, who is still serving as acting director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau while Trump fails to nominate anyone at all to fill the job on a permanent basis, stripped the CFPB's fair lending office of enforcement powers.Alan Rappeport of the New York Times reported that not only has the payday lending industry won a number of regulatory favors from the Trump administration, they'll be repaying the president personally by holding their annual retreat at the Trump Doral Golf Club.We had two significant train derailments, even as Trump revealed his infrastructure "plan" to be essentially a giant magic asterisk.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 07:33:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:04:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 12:57:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 12:54:34 AM
This forum is very lucky to have pro-Trump posters who educate everybody with articles from such reputable sources as The Daily Jot and the American Mirror.

Theyre about as credible as CNN or the NY Times
Sure they are. I'm sure they're "centrist", or something, eh.

Keep it up, as you like to say yourself.

In the meantime, here's an article with actual research about how Republicans are using bots to distort the news landscape for their own ends.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/04/trump-twitter-russians-release-the-memo-216935
The NYT like the other newspapers is regulated. It cannot print any old  shite . Facebook.is not regulated. It makes a lot of money because of this.
And the GOP allied with Russia. FFS.
The biggest issue is the death of the GOP. .There is no party for Conservatives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 06, 2018, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 12:57:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 12:54:34 AM
This forum is very lucky to have pro-Trump posters who educate everybody with articles from such reputable sources as The Daily Jot and the American Mirror.

Theyre about as credible as CNN or the NY Times

It's terrifying that you and people like you actually believe this. And have votes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 06, 2018, 10:01:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 01:30:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:04:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 12:57:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 12:54:34 AM
This forum is very lucky to have pro-Trump posters who educate everybody with articles from such reputable sources as The Daily Jot and the American Mirror.

Theyre about as credible as CNN or the NY Times
Sure they are. I'm sure they're "centrist", or something, eh.

Keep it up, as you like to say yourself.

In the meantime, here's an article with actual research about how Republicans are using bots to distort the news landscape for their own ends.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/04/trump-twitter-russians-release-the-memo-216935 (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/04/trump-twitter-russians-release-the-memo-216935)

Who cares.....whatever it takes to defeat the DNC and the Clintons is just fine with me

Harry Reid accused Mitt Romney from the floor of the senate of not having paid taxes for over a decade......do you remember what Harry he said when it was pointed out to him that it was all a lie?   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/15/harry-reid-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes-hes-still-not-sorry/?utm_term=.b8c9ab6bcc92 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/15/harry-reid-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes-hes-still-not-sorry/?utm_term=.b8c9ab6bcc92)

Equally terrifying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 07:33:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:04:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 12:57:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 12:54:34 AM
This forum is very lucky to have pro-Trump posters who educate everybody with articles from such reputable sources as The Daily Jot and the American Mirror.

Theyre about as credible as CNN or the NY Times
Sure they are. I'm sure they're "centrist", or something, eh.

Keep it up, as you like to say yourself.

In the meantime, here's an article with actual research about how Republicans are using bots to distort the news landscape for their own ends.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/04/trump-twitter-russians-release-the-memo-216935
The NYT like the other newspapers is regulated. It cannot print any old  shite . Facebook.is not regulated. It makes a lot of money because of this.
And the GOP allied with Russia. FFS.
The biggest issue is the death of the GOP. .There is no party for Conservatives.

Generic ballot had tightened considerably and Republicans have a pretty significant money advantage going into November........this is far from a foregone conclusion that they are going to get hammered in the Mid Terms.   

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/372101-gop-growing-optimistic-about-midterm-chances

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 05, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
But stew's 401k has never been better and it was all down to Trump??

I'm confused!! :o
Stew's 401k has lost momentum just like Armagh in the Fermanagh match in 2004.

Share prices never fall. Fermanagh never beat Armagh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 06, 2018, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 05, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
But stew's 401k has never been better and it was all down to Trump??

I'm confused!! :o
Stew's 401k has lost momentum just like Armagh in the Fermanagh match in 2004.

Share prices never fall. Fermanagh never beat Armagh.

Has it f**k!

It all depends on what you invest in. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 11:18:37 AM
Quote from: stew on February 06, 2018, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 05, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
But stew's 401k has never been better and it was all down to Trump??

I'm confused!! :o
Stew's 401k has lost momentum just like Armagh in the Fermanagh match in 2004.

Share prices never fall. Fermanagh never beat Armagh.

Has it f**k!

It all depends on what you invest in. )

Fake news websites?  ;D

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/06/sharing-fake-news-us-rightwing-study-trump-university-of-oxford

Low-quality, extremist, sensationalist and conspiratorial news published in the US was overwhelmingly consumed and shared by rightwing social network users, according to new study from the University of Oxford.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 06, 2018, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 11:18:37 AM
Quote from: stew on February 06, 2018, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 05, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
But stew's 401k has never been better and it was all down to Trump??

I'm confused!! :o
Stew's 401k has lost momentum just like Armagh in the Fermanagh match in 2004.

Share prices never fall. Fermanagh never beat Armagh.

Has it f**k!

It all depends on what you invest in. )

Fake news websites?  ;D

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/06/sharing-fake-news-us-rightwing-study-trump-university-of-oxford

Low-quality, extremist, sensationalist and conspiratorial news published in the US was overwhelmingly consumed and shared by rightwing social network users, according to new study from the University of Oxford.

Thats bullshit, utter bullshit, the left control the vast majority of the US Media, I dont buy that for one minute!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 06, 2018, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: stew on February 06, 2018, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 11:18:37 AM
Quote from: stew on February 06, 2018, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 05, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
But stew's 401k has never been better and it was all down to Trump??

I'm confused!! :o
Stew's 401k has lost momentum just like Armagh in the Fermanagh match in 2004.

Share prices never fall. Fermanagh never beat Armagh.

Has it f**k!

It all depends on what you invest in. )

Fake news websites?  ;D

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/06/sharing-fake-news-us-rightwing-study-trump-university-of-oxford

Low-quality, extremist, sensationalist and conspiratorial news published in the US was overwhelmingly consumed and shared by rightwing social network users, according to new study from the University of Oxford.

Thats bullshit, utter bullshit, the left control the vast majority of the US Media, I dont buy that for one minute!

QED
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 06, 2018, 01:11:26 PM
Bravo!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 01:23:44 PM
Rupert murdoch is a leftie?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 01:23:44 PM
Rupert murdoch is a leftie?
Alex Jones and Mike Cernovich are centrists with a relentless, unimpeachable intellectual honesty.

Yeah.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on February 06, 2018, 01:36:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 01:23:44 PM
Rupert murdoch is a leftie?

Not being totally clued into US politics I always found it strange that Whitey and Stew keep going on about the DEM's and the left wing snowflakes thing, but i've always thought of being left wing as almost socialist in political outlook and I can't fathom how the likes of the Clintons, even Obama and Bernie Saunders are remotely leftist.
Not in my eyes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:43:06 PM
This is comedy stuff.

Trump "claimed" he wants to do an interview with Mueller under oath. But his lawyers don't want to let him because they think he'd incriminate himself.

We don't have to imagine what it would be like to have a petulant six year old child as US president. Because that's what the current incumbent is.

Another poster was talking about "transparency".

Transparency means:
Interview.
Under oath.
No time limits.
No briefing as to what the questions will be.
And no subject out of bounds for questioning.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html

WASHINGTON — Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.

His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia's election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:43:06 PM
This is comedy stuff.

Trump "claimed" he wants to do an interview with Mueller under oath. But his lawyers don't want to let him because they think he'd incriminate himself.

We don't have to imagine what it would be like to have a petulant six year old child as US president. Because that's what the current incumbent is.

Another poster was talking about "transparency".

Transparency means:
Interview.
Under oath.
No time limits.
No briefing as to what the questions will be.
And no subject out of bounds for questioning.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html

WASHINGTON — Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.

His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia's election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.

Why the hell should he

Hillary wasnt interviewed under oath.....the feckin interview wasnt even recorded...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on February 06, 2018, 03:36:26 PM
Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same shekel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 03:39:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:43:06 PM
This is comedy stuff.

Trump "claimed" he wants to do an interview with Mueller under oath. But his lawyers don't want to let him because they think he'd incriminate himself.

We don't have to imagine what it would be like to have a petulant six year old child as US president. Because that's what the current incumbent is.

Another poster was talking about "transparency".

Transparency means:
Interview.
Under oath.
No time limits.
No briefing as to what the questions will be.
And no subject out of bounds for questioning.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html

WASHINGTON — Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.

His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia's election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.

Why the hell should he

Hillary wasnt interviewed under oath.....the feckin interview wasnt even recorded...

Hillary Clinton complied with everything that was asked of her by the FBI and Congress.

It's very telling when that when you don't have an answer you revert to your trademark "But Hillary" line. Like all Trump supporters do.

Now, Trump is the one who has said he wants to testify under oath.

If he isn't willing to testify under oath, he's lying to the American people yet again.

Why do you find lying to the American people acceptable?

Are you afraid that he'll incriminate himself if he testifies under oath?

You are, aren't you?

Remember, you were the one talking about "transparency".

Of course you only want transparency when it won't damage a Republican.

That's very transparent.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 03:39:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 01:43:06 PM
This is comedy stuff.

Trump "claimed" he wants to do an interview with Mueller under oath. But his lawyers don't want to let him because they think he'd incriminate himself.

We don't have to imagine what it would be like to have a petulant six year old child as US president. Because that's what the current incumbent is.

Another poster was talking about "transparency".

Transparency means:
Interview.
Under oath.
No time limits.
No briefing as to what the questions will be.
And no subject out of bounds for questioning.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html

WASHINGTON — Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.

His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia's election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.

Why the hell should he

Hillary wasnt interviewed under oath.....the feckin interview wasnt even recorded...

Hillary Clinton complied with everything that was asked of her by the FBI and Congress.

It's very telling when that when you don't have an answer you revert to your trademark "But Hillary" line. Like all Trump supporters do.

Now, Trump is the one who has said he wants to testify under oath.

If he isn't willing to testify under oath, he's lying to the American people yet again.

Why do you find lying to the American people acceptable?

Are you afraid that he'll incriminate himself if he testifies under oath?

You are, aren't you?

Remember, you were the one talking about "transparency".

Of course you only want transparency when it won't damage a Republican.

That's very transparent.

Hahaha....deleting 30000 emails that were under congressional subpoena, forensically wiping her server, smashing blackberries with hammers......then to top it off her IT guy pleads the Fifth

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 04:13:25 PM
3,000 or 33,000?

What's the American Mirror have to say about this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 04:13:25 PM
3,000 or 33,000?

What's the American Mirror have to say about this?

I dont know, but whatever their opinion is, its just as valid as those expressed by the NY Times or CNN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 04:39:02 PM
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/ddaf53bd25105cf4d616aa89cae41d02/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 04:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 04:13:25 PM
3,000 or 33,000?

What's the American Mirror have to say about this?

I dont know, but whatever their opinion is, its just as valid as those expressed by the NY Times or CNN
Ho ho ho. Keep it up.

I see an actual Nazi now looks likely to get the Republican nomination to run for Congress in Illinois.

This is entirely logical given what the Republican Party now is. In fact he'll be the most honest candidate they run in the whole US given what they now are.

Holocaust denier poised to claim GOP nomination in Illinois race for Congress

https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/holocaust-denier-arthur-jones-republican-3rd-congressional-district-lipinski-newman/

Quote
Arthur Jones — an outspoken Holocaust denier, activist anti-Semite and white supremacist — is poised to become the Republican nominee for an Illinois congressional seat representing parts of Chicago and nearby suburbs.

"Well first of all, I'm running for Congress not the chancellor of Germany. All right. To me the Holocaust is what I said it is: It's an international extortion racket," Jones told the Chicago Sun-Times.

Indeed, Jones' website for his latest congressional run includes a section titled "The 'Holocaust Racket'" where he calls the genocide carried out by the German Nazi regime and collaborators in other nations "the biggest blackest lie in history."

QuoteJones told the Sun-Times he is a former leader of the American Nazi Party and now heads a group called the America First Committee. "Membership in this organization is open to any white American citizen of European, non-Jewish descent," he said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 04:50:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 04:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 04:13:25 PM
3,000 or 33,000?

What's the American Mirror have to say about this?

I dont know, but whatever their opinion is, its just as valid as those expressed by the NY Times or CNN
Ho ho ho. Keep it up.

I see an actual Nazi now looks likely to get the Republican nomination to run for Congress in Illinois.

This is entirely logical given what the Republican Party now is. In fact he'll be the most honest candidate they run in the whole US given what they now are.

Holocaust denier poised to claim GOP nomination in Illinois race for Congress

https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/holocaust-denier-arthur-jones-republican-3rd-congressional-district-lipinski-newman/

Quote
Arthur Jones — an outspoken Holocaust denier, activist anti-Semite and white supremacist — is poised to become the Republican nominee for an Illinois congressional seat representing parts of Chicago and nearby suburbs.

"Well first of all, I'm running for Congress not the chancellor of Germany. All right. To me the Holocaust is what I said it is: It's an international extortion racket," Jones told the Chicago Sun-Times.

Indeed, Jones' website for his latest congressional run includes a section titled "The 'Holocaust Racket'" where he calls the genocide carried out by the German Nazi regime and collaborators in other nations "the biggest blackest lie in history."

QuoteJones told the Sun-Times he is a former leader of the American Nazi Party and now heads a group called the America First Committee. "Membership in this organization is open to any white American citizen of European, non-Jewish descent," he said.

Hahah...you conveniently left out the part about the state GOP going to court to prevent him from getting on the ballot (as they also did the last time he ran)

Very little you can do to stop crazies getting on the ballot in a primary, but keep it up.....if thats all the Democrats have to offer theyre going to do shag all in November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 04:54:15 PM
I think you've proved beyond doubt now whitey that you're not a bit worried about crazies - in fact you admitted that you support the use of Russian interference and propaganda in US politics earlier today.

This chap will fit in just fine with your agenda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 05:28:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 04:54:15 PM
I think you've proved beyond doubt now whitey that you're not a bit worried about crazies - in fact you admitted that you support the use of Russian interference and propaganda in US politics earlier today.

This chap will fit in just fine with your agenda.

At this point I dont care.....I used to be very middle of the road, then when I saw the lengths the Democrats went to destroy a good man like Mitt Romney, and the media aided and abbetted them every step of the way.......I said fvck it. 


This guy doesnt represent me.....Im more like a Larry Kudlow, Mitt Romney Charlie Baker type of Republican.  Unfortunately the velvet glove tactics of the Country Club Republicans wont work against the DNC and the Clinton dirty trick machine.......you have to give it back to them in spades and that is what I applaud

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 06, 2018, 05:33:04 PM
Would there be anything to be said for another Benghazi investigation, Ted?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 05:46:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2018, 05:28:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 04:54:15 PM
I think you've proved beyond doubt now whitey that you're not a bit worried about crazies - in fact you admitted that you support the use of Russian interference and propaganda in US politics earlier today.

This chap will fit in just fine with your agenda.

At this point I dont care.....I used to be very middle of the road, then when I saw the lengths the Democrats went to destroy a good man like Mitt Romney, and the media aided and abbetted them every step of the way.......I said fvck it. 


This guy doesnt represent me.....Im more like a Larry Kudlow, Mitt Romney Charlie Baker type of Republican.  Unfortunately the velvet glove tactics of the Country Club Republicans wont work against the DNC and the Clinton dirty trick machine.......you have to give it back to them in spades and that is what I applaud

Nice of you to finally admit both that you're an extremist and support fake Russian and domestic propaganda in favour of Republican kleptocrats, but sure we knew all that already.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 06:28:56 PM
Steele was fed false info by Russian Intelligence.....and that was used to wiretap Trump campaign

Does that count as "collusion " by the Democrats in your book?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
says who?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
says who?
I'd say it was either the American Stormer, the Daily Troll or the National Fart.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 07:37:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
says who?
I'd say it was either the American Stormer, the Daily Troll or the National Fart.


Well a special prosecutor is being appointed to investigate it so I'm sure we'll find out in due course
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 07:43:17 PM
will we?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 06, 2018, 07:43:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
says who?
Charles Koch and all the Kochsuckers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 09:17:00 PM
Whitey is one dumb mofo.

He feasts on a diet of alt-right crap, which tells him that the perfectly legitimate use of a private investigation firm to gather intelligence on an opposition politician is "collusion". A contract which was started by Republicans during the primaries.

Then he straight out defends the use of Russian propaganda to influence the election for Trump.

And he puts his fingers in his ears and whistles as evidence that Trump actually colluded with Russia keeps coming out.

Only an utter dope could make such laughable, comedy accusations of Russian collusion against Democrats, while simultaneously defending or denying (depends which side of bed he gets out of) Russian collusion by Republicans.

Why did Trump appoint Michael Flynn, Carter Page, George Papadopoulos and Paul Manafort, whitey?





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on February 06, 2018, 10:17:34 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
says who?
.  One of Irelands sons Sean Hannity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2018, 10:28:35 PM
Quote from: maigheo on February 06, 2018, 10:17:34 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
says who?
.  One of Irelands sons Sean Hannity

Actually several sources, including CNBC......watch this space and remember where you first heard about it when it happens

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/05/trumps-legal-team-supports-a-second-special-counsel-to-probe-fbi-doj.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 10:39:02 PM
Quote from: maigheo on February 06, 2018, 10:17:34 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
says who?
.  One of Irelands sons Sean Hannity
This Sean Hannity?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBGudMadlY0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 06, 2018, 11:26:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2018, 09:17:00 PM
Whitey is one dumb mofo.

He feasts on a diet of alt-right crap, which tells him that the perfectly legitimate use of a private investigation firm to gather intelligence on an opposition politician is "collusion". A contract which was started by Republicans during the primaries.

Then he straight out defends the use of Russian propaganda to influence the election for Trump.

And he puts his fingers in his ears and whistles as evidence that Trump actually colluded with Russia keeps coming out.

Only an utter dope could make such laughable, comedy accusations of Russian collusion against Democrats, while simultaneously defending or denying (depends which side of bed he gets out of) Russian collusion by Republicans.

Why did Trump appoint Michael Flynn, Carter Page, George Papadopoulos and Paul Manafort, whitey?

Its comedic siddles! comedic brother!

Sure you listen to far left crap according to whitey, far anything is bad, left or right, didnt you get the memo?

f**k the far left and the same goes for the far right, I thinks its comedy gold that Hillory screwed the left out of an election they should have won going away!  :-[
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2018, 12:39:51 AM
Ah FFS, I heard it all now (if its true, and it does appears to be)

Schiff tricked by Russian pranksters who pretended to have naked pictures of Trump

His staff were sending emails to the Ukranian embassy to arrange someone to go over and pick the pictures up, and it was all a prank

Maybe he can put the pictures in along with the next FISA application, the fvckin clown
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on February 07, 2018, 12:50:53 AM
Stick up a link for us all Whitey so we can get a read. And don't worry ill remember were i heard it first!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2018, 01:00:03 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on February 07, 2018, 12:50:53 AM
Stick up a link for us all Whitey so we can get a read. And don't worry ill remember were i heard it first!

Happy to oblige

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/02/06/russian_comedians_prank_call_rep_adam_schiff_promise_him_naked_photos_of_trump_from_fsb.html


The more I see and hear of Schiff, the more Im convinced Trump is going to walk away unscathed from this "investigation"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 07, 2018, 01:02:26 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on February 07, 2018, 12:50:53 AM
Stick up a link for us all Whitey so we can get a read. And don't worry ill remember were i heard it first!

Daily Mail - CS

The same pranksters caught Nikki Haley a few months back

QuoteA pair of Russian comedians appear to have successfully tricked the US' Ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, into commenting on a fictional Asian country.

The two comedians Vladimir Kuznetsov and Alexei Stolyarov, known as Vovan and Lexus, posted a 22 minute audio clip of their conversation with the ambassador where they get her to comment on the situation in Binomo – a fictional country in the South China Sea.

Posing as the Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, they spoke to Ms Haley in the days after Poland was one of 35 countries to abstain on a UN vote to reject Donald Trump's declaration of Jerusalem as Israel's capital as "null and void".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2018, 01:08:31 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 07, 2018, 01:02:26 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on February 07, 2018, 12:50:53 AM
Stick up a link for us all Whitey so we can get a read. And don't worry ill remember were i heard it first!

Daily Mail - CS

The same pranksters caught Nikki Haley a few months back

QuoteA pair of Russian comedians appear to have successfully tricked the US' Ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, into commenting on a fictional Asian country.

The two comedians Vladimir Kuznetsov and Alexei Stolyarov, known as Vovan and Lexus, posted a 22 minute audio clip of their conversation with the ambassador where they get her to comment on the situation in Binomo – a fictional country in the South China Sea.

Posing as the Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, they spoke to Ms Haley in the days after Poland was one of 35 countries to abstain on a UN vote to reject Donald Trump's declaration of Jerusalem as Israel's capital as "null and void".

And......what has that got to do with the Russian investigation?   (Unless youre just trying to deflect and change the subject)


Im tellin ya......all the bullshit in the Steele dossier was misinformation fed to them by Russian intelligence.  There was contact alright, as there was with the Clinton campaign. 

They also had a bunch of dopes on staff Papadopolous, Page and Don Jr who probably would have colluded if they could have figured out how.

Dems
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on February 07, 2018, 01:55:39 AM
I don't understand what the prank call has to do with anything.  Are you saying this is the reason for the Russia/Trump investigation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2018, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2018, 12:39:51 AM
Ah FFS, I heard it all now (if its true, and it does appears to be)

Schiff tricked by Russian pranksters who pretended to have naked pictures of Trump

His staff were sending emails to the Ukranian embassy to arrange someone to go over and pick the pictures up, and it was all a prank

Maybe he can put the pictures in along with the next FISA application, the fvckin clown
Nikki Haley was caught out by 2 Russian comedians

"A pair of Russian comedians appear to have successfully tricked the US' Ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, into commenting on a fictional Asian country. 

The two comedians Vladimir Kuznetsov and Alexei Stolyarov, known as Vovan and Lexus, posted a 22 minute audio clip of their conversation with the ambassador where they get her to comment on the situation in Binomo – a fictional country in the South China Sea.

Posing as the Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, they spoke to Ms Haley in the days after Poland was one of 35 countries to abstain on a UN vote to reject Donald Trump's declaration of Jerusalem as Israel's capital as "null and void"."

She is worse than Palin.

https://youtu.be/9RgXL7byTF0

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2018, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2018, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2018, 12:39:51 AM
Ah FFS, I heard it all now (if its true, and it does appears to be)

Schiff tricked by Russian pranksters who pretended to have naked pictures of Trump

His staff were sending emails to the Ukranian embassy to arrange someone to go over and pick the pictures up, and it was all a prank

Maybe he can put the pictures in along with the next FISA application, the fvckin clown
Nikki Haley was caught out by 2 Russian comedians

"A pair of Russian comedians appear to have successfully tricked the US' Ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, into commenting on a fictional Asian country.

The two comedians Vladimir Kuznetsov and Alexei Stolyarov, known as Vovan and Lexus, posted a 22 minute audio clip of their conversation with the ambassador where they get her to comment on the situation in Binomo – a fictional country in the South China Sea.

Posing as the Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, they spoke to Ms Haley in the days after Poland was one of 35 countries to abstain on a UN vote to reject Donald Trump's declaration of Jerusalem as Israel's capital as "null and void"."

She is worse than Palin.

https://youtu.be/9RgXL7byTF0


Keep it up


The truth is coming out.....Trump will be exonerated and the Clintons, Obama and some others are looking at serious indictments
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 07, 2018, 01:25:13 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/18/article-2525602-1A2B2A3600000578-553_634x408.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2018, 02:02:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 07, 2018, 01:25:13 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/18/article-2525602-1A2B2A3600000578-553_634x408.jpg)

Whats that......the DNC looking for Russian Collusion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 07, 2018, 03:02:03 PM
Quote"There are no fewer than 5 (known) separate investigations under the broad umbrella of the special counsel."

1. Preexisting Biz Deals/Money Laundering
2. Russian Info Operations
3. Active Cyber Intrusions
4. Russian Campaign Contacts
5. Obstruction of Justice

I wonder if Nunes has a memo for all of them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2018, 06:27:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2018, 01:23:02 PM


Keep it up


The truth is coming out.....Trump will be exonerated and the Clintons, Obama and some others are looking at serious indictments

Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2018, 08:09:41 PM
Trump Boasted of Avoiding STDs While Dating: Vaginas Are 'Landmines ... It Is My Personal Vietnam'

http://people.com/politics/trump-boasted-of-avoiding-stds-while-dating-vaginas-are-landmines-it-was-my-personal-vietnam/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 07, 2018, 08:26:08 PM
Seafoid, that's from an age ago. His regard for the military did not originate from his youth. Another wonderful thing about the donald is that he is the first human to have self curing bone spurs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2018, 08:58:22 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 07, 2018, 08:26:08 PM
Seafoid, that's from an age ago. His regard for the military did not originate from his youth. Another wonderful thing about the donald is that he is the first human to have self curing bone spurs.

It says a lot about the Caudillo  of the GOP.  With 90% approval it says a lot about the GOP too.

The US is being slowly asset stripped.

Ben Wikler

@benwikler

·

19h

This is just gruesome. The Trump administration looking at limiting the number of months adults can get Medicaid coverage. There are people in this administration who get up every day and brainstorm ways to make life harder for the ill and the poor. Vile.

 http://amp.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article198549039.html?__twitter_impression=true

Laura Rozen

@lrozen

Sarah Sanders: Democrats are going to have to decide soon, do they hate this president more than they love this country.


David Gutman

@davidlgutman

The coal industry lawyer celebrating the @wvgazettemail's bankruptcy works for Jackson Kelly. Here's a Pulitzer Prize-winning article on how Jackson Kelly withheld evidence of black lung disease at the expense of sick miners: (link: https://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/10/29/13585/coal-industrys-go-law-firm-withheld-evidence-black-lung-expense-sick-miners)




Howard Fineman

@howardfineman

·

Feb 6

As I've reported, #Trump has been told he cannot -- should not -- fire #Mueller: too risky. Instead the prez is doing all he can to hem him in, discredit him & those around him, & will avoid -- with Supreme Court court help if possible -- giving the prosecutor a real interview.





Jonathan Merritt

@JonathanMerritt

·

Feb 6

Gerson drops a hammer - "For Republicans, what seemed like a temporary political compromise is becoming an indelible moral stain."





Alec MacGillis

@AlecMacGillis

Oklahoma now has 91 school districts that can only afford to open schools four days per week; drunk drivers in the state can keep their licenses bc there are no bureaucrats to take them away. Remind me about the SW/Sun Belt growth model everyone's touting?


 https://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/co/2018/02/02/the-four-day-week-once-a-tool-of-rural-districts-is-coming-to-a-denver-metro-school-district/

Trump belongs in Scooby Do as one of the bad guys 

And the Fed won't be able to raise rates without crashing the economy.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 07, 2018, 10:53:50 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 07, 2018, 08:26:08 PM
Seafoid, that's from an age ago. His regard for the military did not originate from his youth. Another wonderful thing about the donald is that he is the first human to have self curing bone spurs.


If true that is insane!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 08, 2018, 12:25:25 AM
It's true. Trump got 5 deferrals from the draft on medical grounds. Bone spurs in his foot. When he was asked which foot it was he deflected. The brave Twitter warrior was a lot less warlike when he was asked to go to Vietnam than he is now. But then again nobody belonging to Trump will be volunteering to defend us if he trips us into WW3
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2018, 12:33:45 AM
He's playing the fvckin Democrats like a fiddle

Parade is probably the stupidest thing I have heard of in a long  time (especially coming from our third draft dodging president in recent times) but his base will love it and if (and they already have) the Democrats criticize it he will have a field day
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 08, 2018, 12:42:53 AM
I see White House staff secretary Rob Porter has resigned after he was exposed as a serial wife beater - he has two ex-wives.

When he was being vetted, the abuse came up, but Trump appointed him anyway.

And Kelly was still gushing in his praise for Porter even after his abuse became public, calling him "a man of true integrity and honour".

I suppose it would have been a massive shock if the Trump regime didn't call a serial wife beater "a man of true integrity and honour".

That kind of behaviour is almost mandatory to be praised in such a way by them.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2018, 12:52:17 AM
That's insane....if it's all true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 08, 2018, 01:49:56 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2018, 12:42:53 AM
I see White House staff secretary Rob Porter has resigned after he was exposed as a serial wife beater - he has two ex-wives.

When he was being vetted, the abuse came up, but Trump appointed him anyway.

And Kelly was still gushing in his praise for Porter even after his abuse became public, calling him "a man of true integrity and honour".

I suppose it would have been a massive shock if the Trump regime didn't call a serial wife beater "a man of true integrity and honour".

That kind of behaviour is almost mandatory to be praised in such a way by them.

You better be right on this Sid!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2018, 05:24:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2018, 12:42:53 AM
I see White House staff secretary Rob Porter has resigned after he was exposed as a serial wife beater - he has two ex-wives.

When he was being vetted, the abuse came up, but Trump appointed him anyway.

And Kelly was still gushing in his praise for Porter even after his abuse became public, calling him "a man of true integrity and honour".

I suppose it would have been a massive shock if the Trump regime didn't call a serial wife beater "a man of true integrity and honour".

That kind of behaviour is almost mandatory to be praised in such a way by them.
Trump.has filled very few posts and of those hè did the only required quality was ideological rigidity.
It's straight out of Scooby Do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2018, 06:01:38 AM

No wonder he worked for Trump. Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.


https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/07/politics/rob-porter-ex-wives-white-house/index.html?

Rob was abusive, degrading, a liar and a cheater and during the course of my relationship with him, I found out that he was to others, too," the woman wrote to Willoughby in February 2016. "I am just searching for someone who might be able to relate to the hell I have gone through."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2018, 03:37:37 PM
I guess Hannity and 90% of the party would now consider W to be a RINO given where the party is.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/08/george-bush-pretty-clear-evidence-russia-meddled-in-us-election
George W Bush has said there is "pretty clear evidence that the Russians meddled" in the 2016 US presidential election, forcefully rebutting Donald Trump's denials that Moscow tried to affect the vote.

While never mentioning Trump by name, Bush, the US president from 2001 to 2009, appeared to be pushing back at Trump's attempts to foster warmer relations with Russia.

The White House did not immediately comment on Bush's remarks.

"There's pretty clear evidence that the Russians meddled," Bush said at a talk in the United Arab Emirates. "Whether they affected the outcome is another question."

He also said: "It's problematic that a foreign nation is involved in our election system. Our democracy is only as good as people trust the results."

US intelligence agencies have concluded that Russia meddled in the 2016 election to help Trump win. Numerous investigations are under way to determine whether Trump's campaign aided the Kremlin in its efforts. Trump has repeatedly denied any collusion with Russia.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
Of course there was Russian interference....the more important question is was there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so, but I guess Mueller will find out.

The main stream media is now so biased that many people are relying on the internet for their news and low information voters are very susceptible to be manipulated by false one sided information


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2018, 03:57:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
Of course there was Russian interference....the more important question is was there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so, but I guess Mueller will find out.

The main stream media is now so biased that many people are relying on the internet for their news and low information voters are very susceptible to be manipulated by false one sided information
Give us a few examples of genuine media bias, Whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 08, 2018, 04:02:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
Of course there was Russian interference....the more important question is was there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so, but I guess Mueller will find out.

The main stream media is now so biased that many people are relying on the internet for their news and low information voters are very susceptible to be manipulated by false one sided information
Your first line seems to 100% back-up the theory outlined in your second paragraph.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on February 08, 2018, 04:04:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2018, 03:37:37 PM
I guess Hannity and 90% of the party would now consider W to be a RINO given where the party is.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/08/george-bush-pretty-clear-evidence-russia-meddled-in-us-election
George W Bush has said there is "pretty clear evidence that the Russians meddled" in the 2016 US presidential election, forcefully rebutting Donald Trump's denials that Moscow tried to affect the vote.

While never mentioning Trump by name, Bush, the US president from 2001 to 2009, appeared to be pushing back at Trump's attempts to foster warmer relations with Russia.

The White House did not immediately comment on Bush's remarks.

"There's pretty clear evidence that the Russians meddled," Bush said at a talk in the United Arab Emirates. "Whether they affected the outcome is another question."

He also said: "It's problematic that a foreign nation is involved in our election system. Our democracy is only as good as people trust the results."

US intelligence agencies have concluded that Russia meddled in the 2016 election to help Trump win. Numerous investigations are under way to determine whether Trump's campaign aided the Kremlin in its efforts. Trump has repeatedly denied any collusion with Russia.

All the talk about Russia meddling in US affairs, yet not a mention of the elephant in the room the state of Israel. Could you imagine a Russian equivalent of AIPAC? Or Vadamir Putin making a speech to Congress like Binyamin Netanyahu did where he received twenty six standing ovations.

Not while your arse points to the ground would you. Anyone with the slightest gra of American politics would know that democrats and republicans are two sides of the same shekel. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 08, 2018, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
many people are relying on the internet for their news and low information voters are very susceptible to be manipulated by false one sided information
They sure are.....  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 08, 2018, 04:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?
What does this meeting prove exactly in relation to collusion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2018, 04:50:43 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 08, 2018, 04:04:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2018, 03:37:37 PM
I guess Hannity and 90% of the party would now consider W to be a RINO given where the party is.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/08/george-bush-pretty-clear-evidence-russia-meddled-in-us-election
George W Bush has said there is "pretty clear evidence that the Russians meddled" in the 2016 US presidential election, forcefully rebutting Donald Trump's denials that Moscow tried to affect the vote.

While never mentioning Trump by name, Bush, the US president from 2001 to 2009, appeared to be pushing back at Trump's attempts to foster warmer relations with Russia.

The White House did not immediately comment on Bush's remarks.

"There's pretty clear evidence that the Russians meddled," Bush said at a talk in the United Arab Emirates. "Whether they affected the outcome is another question."

He also said: "It's problematic that a foreign nation is involved in our election system. Our democracy is only as good as people trust the results."

US intelligence agencies have concluded that Russia meddled in the 2016 election to help Trump win. Numerous investigations are under way to determine whether Trump's campaign aided the Kremlin in its efforts. Trump has repeatedly denied any collusion with Russia.

All the talk about Russia meddling in US affairs, yet not a mention of the elephant in the room the state of Israel. Could you imagine a Russian equivalent of AIPAC? Or Vadamir Putin making a speech to Congress like Binyamin Netanyahu did where he received twenty six standing ovations.

Not while your arse points to the ground would you. Anyone with the slightest gra of American politics would know that democrats and republicans are two sides of the same shekel.
Dem voter support for Israel has fallen significantly recently. 
Israel will soon be a partisan issue. Bibi and the loopers in the GOP. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 05:05:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 08, 2018, 04:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?
What does this meeting prove exactly in relation to collusion?

what colour is an orange?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 08, 2018, 05:17:53 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 05:05:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 08, 2018, 04:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?
What does this meeting prove exactly in relation to collusion?

what colour is an orange?

No smoke and all that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 08, 2018, 05:26:33 PM
Quote from: stew on February 08, 2018, 05:17:53 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 05:05:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 08, 2018, 04:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?
What does this meeting prove exactly in relation to collusion?

what colour is an orange?

No smoke and all that.
Bulletproof stuff lads. Case closed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2018, 05:27:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?

So Hillarys campaign actually had a meeting at the Ukrainian Embassy....is that collusion?

And in case you've forgotten Simpson from Fusion GPS met the Russian Attorney both the night before and the night after the Trump Tower meeting.....what a coincidence in a city of 10,000,000 people he just happened to be in the same place at the same time twice in three days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2018, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 08, 2018, 04:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?
What does this meeting prove exactly in relation to collusion?
I usually associate the word collusion with a northern accent. Also situation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 05:27:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?

So Hillarys campaign actually had a meeting at the Ukrainian Embassy....is that collusion?

And in case you've forgotten Simpson from Fusion GPS met the Russian Attorney both the night before and the night after the Trump Tower meeting.....what a coincidence in a city of 10,000,000 people he just happened to be in the same place at the same time twice in three days.

Is she President?

Is she obstructing justice?

How many members of her campaign team have been charged with crimes by Mueller?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2018, 09:14:22 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 05:27:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?

So Hillarys campaign actually had a meeting at the Ukrainian Embassy....is that collusion?

And in case you've forgotten Simpson from Fusion GPS met the Russian Attorney both the night before and the night after the Trump Tower meeting.....what a coincidence in a city of 10,000,000 people he just happened to be in the same place at the same time twice in three days.

Is she President?

Is she obstructing justice?

How many members of her campaign team have been charged with crimes by Mueller?

When Trump appoints a new special counsel to look into the fake dossier they'll have charges coming out their h0les there'll be that many
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 08, 2018, 09:39:04 PM
During her long filibuster speech Nancy pelosi was telling the country that one of her proudest days as a grandmother was the day her 6 year old grandson wished he was brown skinned and brown eyed like his guetamalan friend when he was making a wish on his birthday, Nancys liberalism is slipping into mental disorder I think and the retirement home might be the best place for  her ASAP ,can u imagine any person saying this and getting away with it ? When did being a white person become a bad thing?  She knows she's white right ? The politicians here have gone completely insane most average person on the street has ten times more cop on than them .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 08, 2018, 09:51:21 PM
I guess she had to fill time, 8 hours and all, but I suppose she could have whipped out Joyce's Ulysses and outshone Ted Cruz's epic Green Eggs and Ham.

Strictly speaking, and I could be wrong, but I believe that a filibuster is a procedure limited to the Senate, though what she was doing was clearly her own version of a filibuster since in the House a party leader may speak without time limits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 08, 2018, 09:59:30 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 08, 2018, 09:51:21 PM
I guess she had to fill time, 8 hours and all, but I suppose she could have whipped out Joyce's Ulysses and outshone Ted Cruz's epic Green Eggs and Ham.

Strictly speaking, and I could be wrong, but I believe that a filibuster is a procedure limited to the Senate, though what she was doing was clearly her own version of a filibuster since in the House a party leader may speak without time limits.
my mistake I should have said when she was talking shite for 8 hours
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2018, 10:49:57 PM
If that's who the Democrats are hoping to lead them into the November Elections they may as well admit defeat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 09:14:22 PMWhen Trump appoints a new special counsel to look into the fake dossier they'll have charges coming out their h0les there'll be that many

so that's a no then.

Cheers

*head in sand pic*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 08, 2018, 11:38:04 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 09:14:22 PMWhen Trump appoints a new special counsel to look into the fake dossier they'll have charges coming out their h0les there'll be that many

so that's a no then.

Cheers

*head in sand pic*

If there has been collusion by either party with Russia whomever was involved needs taken to task, this is not a partisan thung, if the republicans effed up they must be held accountable no matter how high it goes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 09, 2018, 01:14:13 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 09:14:22 PMWhen Trump appoints a new special counsel to look into the fake dossier they'll have charges coming out their h0les there'll be that many

so that's a no then.

Cheers

*head in sand pic*

What's comin down on Clinton will put the Russian probe in the ha'penny place......when it happens remember where you heard it first
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2018, 01:32:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2018, 01:14:13 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 09:14:22 PMWhen Trump appoints a new special counsel to look into the fake dossier they'll have charges coming out their h0les there'll be that many

so that's a no then.

Cheers

*head in sand pic*

What's comin down on Clinton will put the Russian probe in the ha'penny place......when it happens remember where you heard it first
So if this is the first place we've heard it, you've come up with it all by yourself, yes?

Forgive me if I don't take the word of somebody coming up with their own conspiracy theories on GAA forum.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2018, 01:37:34 AM
I see this Rob Porter chap didn't have permanent security clearance due to the FBI knowing about the wife-beating allegations against him. Yet he was working in a job in which approximately 20% of the information would have handled is classified. Dear oh dear.

John Kelly looks like he might be sacked as he knew for yonks about the allegations and sat on them.

It really is rather far fetched to believe Trump didn't know too, and for a long time. The buck stops with the boss. Everything in Trump's behavioural history says he would have considered a key staffer being a serial wife beater as something to be proud of, not something to be ashamed of.

If Kelly is sacked, he'll just be a convenient fall guy.

What an absolute shit show #349427. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on February 09, 2018, 01:41:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2018, 01:14:13 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 09:14:22 PMWhen Trump appoints a new special counsel to look into the fake dossier they'll have charges coming out their h0les there'll be that many

so that's a no then.

Cheers

*head in sand pic*

What's comin down on Clinton will put the Russian probe in the ha'penny place......when it happens remember where you heard it first
I think you mean the Sean Hannitty show where you heard it first
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 09, 2018, 01:44:25 AM
Quote from: maigheo on February 09, 2018, 01:41:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2018, 01:14:13 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 09:14:22 PMWhen Trump appoints a new special counsel to look into the fake dossier they'll have charges coming out their h0les there'll be that many

so that's a no then.

Cheers

*head in sand pic*

What's comin down on Clinton will put the Russian probe in the ha'penny place......when it happens remember where you heard it first
I think you mean the Sean Hannitty show where you heard it first

I got laughed off this board during the election for having the cheek to say that Trump was in with a chance.  There's lots of undercurrents going on that are not getting reported, but as I said during the election, believe whatever you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2018, 02:48:00 AM
Tick tock tick tock
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 09, 2018, 07:23:15 AM
Another shutdown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 09, 2018, 10:40:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2018, 05:27:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Quotewas there collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign??......personally  don't think so

So you are just completely ignoring that meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower that had Don Jr, Manafort and Jared Kushner all attending


Good to know - where's my head in sand picture again?

So Hillarys campaign actually had a meeting at the Ukrainian Embassy....is that collusion?

And in case you've forgotten Simpson from Fusion GPS met the Russian Attorney both the night before and the night after the Trump Tower meeting.....what a coincidence in a city of 10,000,000 people he just happened to be in the same place at the same time twice in three days.

Is she President?

Is she obstructing justice?

How many members of her campaign team have been charged with crimes by Mueller?
How's Mueller getting along? Haven't read a "smoking gun" headline in a while. Surely there's one due around now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2018, 11:01:12 AM
It's ongoing. He's charged 3 people associated with Trumps campaign team.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 09, 2018, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2018, 11:01:12 AM
It's ongoing. He's charged 3 people associated with Trumps campaign team.

Has anyone been charged with collusion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
Is Muellers investigation just about collusion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 09, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
Is Muellers investigation just about collusion?
I think it's about Russian interference in the 2016 election. I wonder does it cover all Russians, politicians, ice-skaters, the lot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 09, 2018, 01:55:41 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 09, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
Is Muellers investigation just about collusion?
I think it's about Russian interference in the 2016 election. I wonder does it cover all Russians, politicians, ice-skaters, the lot.

My understanding is that it about collusion between the Trump campaign and Russians. 

Mueller would have no jurisdiction over a Russian teenager tweeting false information from his parents basement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 09, 2018, 01:58:32 PM
It is  about Russian interference-I just checked, but everyone already knows they interfered

The more important question is did Trump collude with them, which is what the DNC and Clintons claim
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 09, 2018, 02:04:03 PM
Whatever anyone is charged with, it won't be collusion, as there is no such crime on the books.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/12/what-is-collusion-215366 (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/12/what-is-collusion-215366)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 09, 2018, 02:09:41 PM
The DNC and Clinton can claim all they want - there's no such crime as collusion - Mueller can look at a broad scope of thing

Remember how the Clinton impeachment started?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 09, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 09, 2018, 01:58:32 PM
It is  about Russian interference-I just checked, but everyone already knows they interfered

The more important question is did Trump collude with them, which is what the DNC and Clintons claim
They don't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 10, 2018, 04:18:06 AM
On this point, I have to agree with whitey.  There is concrete evidence that the Russians did interfere with the US elections.  The question is the degree/scope of Trump's and his team's involvement in that interference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 10, 2018, 05:00:07 PM
Id even actually go a step further than Whitey's statement.

At this point there is no credible evidence that the Trump campaign was directly involved in directing that interference.

I'm trying to be careful with that wording, as it is clear that without the online campaign of divide and conquer that the Russians waged, and dangerous combination of the naivete and greed of the large social media companies that was exploited by the Russian campaign there would be a very different government in place in the United States.

Further than that, I don't believe that Donald Trump would have been the Republican nominee. And I say believe as there is no way of proving either side of that argument. Was there interference, an unqualified yes. Did Tump benefit, a qualified yes. Was it directed by the Trump campaign? Got to be honest, they aren't smart enough.

I do believe that the division in the United States is harming it's economy, and really the nation itself is being hurt by the division which is being fanned and exploited by those who benefit from a weaker United States as a global presence.

The biggest surprise to me has been the willingness of the average American to greet that fact with welcoming arms. America first they cry. No comprehension of the global geo political and economic landscapes.

How much damage can be done in 4 years, that is the key question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 10, 2018, 05:17:58 PM
The Russians wanted Trump to win because they knew he would weaken the US. They got what they wanted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 10, 2018, 05:35:42 PM
The Russians wanted to divide the country. It is entirely possible that the Trump win was the result of that division, rather than the goal of it.

The subsequent polarization of the country, and the backwards step in global influence, the lack of key appointees in key geo political areas leaving the US without representation is insane. The result is allowing both China and Russia to exert outsized influence. The abandonment of Africa is mind blowing.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 10, 2018, 06:39:42 PM
Could someone point me in the direction of the evidence some of you are certain exists?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 10, 2018, 06:44:46 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 10, 2018, 05:35:42 PM
The Russians wanted to divide the country. It is entirely possible that the Trump win was the result of that division, rather than the goal of it.

The subsequent polarization of the country, and the backwards step in global influence, the lack of key appointees in key geo political areas leaving the US without representation is insane. The result is allowing both China and Russia to exert outsized influence. The abandonment of Africa is mind blowing.
the tv networks and the democrats are doing the Russians work for them now so , all this shit happened on last governments watch do they have anything to answer for ? Or was it all ok because they thought trump had no chance of winning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 10, 2018, 08:54:24 PM
The TV networks and the democrats huh? Which networks and which democrats please and thank you.?

Wait, are you suggesting people prepared for an election in advance? When there was a different government? That's crazy talk man. You'd want to have your facts straight with that kind of spurious allegation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 11, 2018, 01:57:54 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 10, 2018, 08:54:24 PM
The TV networks and the democrats huh? Which networks and which democrats please and thank you.?

Wait, are you suggesting people prepared for an election in advance? When there was a different government? That's crazy talk man. You'd want to have your facts straight with that kind of spurious allegation.
most tv networks polarize people which does not help .
And prepare for an election? The ruskies played them like a fiddle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2018, 02:39:25 AM
The Clintons are fvckin ragin they lost the most winnable election in American history, so there has to be someone or something to blame other than themselves.

According to my friends on social media who were huge Hillary supporters it was the Electoral College system, then it was rascism, then it was misogny, then it was white privilege, then it was Islamophobia.  ......some how they settled on Russian interference. 

The one lesson that they didnt learn from the Presidential election is that Trump doesnt give a fvck about conventional norms and process......hell do whatever it takes to turn this back on top of them.  I have a feeling the Democrats will regret ever going down this road.

Anyone want to take a wager that in the lead up to the 2018 elections in November there will be some explosive revelation that will really hurt the Democrats chances of taking back the House and Senate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 05:57:13 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 10, 2018, 05:35:42 PM
The Russians wanted to divide the country. It is entirely possible that the Trump win was the result of that division, rather than the goal of it.

The subsequent polarization of the country, and the backwards step in global influence, the lack of key appointees in key geo political areas leaving the US without representation is insane. The result is allowing both China and Russia to exert outsized influence. The abandonment of Africa is mind blowing.
Polarisation didn't start with Trump.  US media has been 2 echo chambers since at least .Newt 


Ittook.years to.groom.GOP voters.

@DKThomp

·

Jan 16

"3/ Dems are evenly divided among several—CNN, NPR, NBC News, NYT—that, while flawed and surely staffed by some libs, are reliable sources of non-partisan (or, at least, multi-partisan) news & views. And then you have Republicans, who basically just trust whatever Fox News says

FORTY PERCENT of Republicans told Gallup that "accurate news stories that cast a politician or political group in a negative light" are always fake news. "

The elephant in the room is plutocracy. Median real US income has been stagnant since the late 70s.
Trump isn't going to change that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Maybe ye missed my post lads. Looking for the evidence that convinces you of Russian meddling. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Maybe ye missed my post lads. Looking for the evidence that convinces you of Russian meddling. Thanks.
Within a few hours of the pussy video the podesta emails were analysed and released.

https://www.ft.com/content/7e47988a-be4c-11e7-9836-b25f8adaa111

Few people knew the young, low level volunteer named George, who has already proven to be a liar," Mr Trump tweeted on Tuesday. "There is NO COLLUSION." By contrast, the charge sheet filed by Mr Mueller says Mr Mifsud told Mr Papadopoulos he knew of the existence of "thousands" of Clinton emails in April 2016 — some six months before WikiLeaks published a tranche of hacked emails from Clinton campaign chief John Podesta. Mrs Clinton has partially blamed Russian propaganda efforts for swinging the election against her. "These were stolen emails, and the best judgment from our intelligence professionals and independent analysts is they were stolen by Russia," she said in September.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 09:59:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Maybe ye missed my post lads. Looking for the evidence that convinces you of Russian meddling. Thanks.
Within a few hours of the pussy video the podesta emails were analysed and released.

https://www.ft.com/content/7e47988a-be4c-11e7-9836-b25f8adaa111

Few people knew the young, low level volunteer named George, who has already proven to be a liar," Mr Trump tweeted on Tuesday. "There is NO COLLUSION." By contrast, the charge sheet filed by Mr Mueller says Mr Mifsud told Mr Papadopoulos he knew of the existence of "thousands" of Clinton emails in April 2016 — some six months before WikiLeaks published a tranche of hacked emails from Clinton campaign chief John Podesta. Mrs Clinton has partially blamed Russian propaganda efforts for swinging the election against her. "These were stolen emails, and the best judgment from our intelligence professionals and independent analysts is they were stolen by Russia," she said in September.
The link is no use as I need to subscribe. However, "....the best judgement from our intelligence professionals and independent analysts is they were stolen by Russia"......is that the crux of what's in the link? If so, this is what convinces you of Russian interference?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2018, 10:16:54 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Maybe ye missed my post lads. Looking for the evidence that convinces you of Russian meddling. Thanks.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/22/russian-trolls/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2018, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Maybe ye missed my post lads. Looking for the evidence that convinces you of Russian meddling. Thanks.

https://www.apnews.com/dea73efc01594839957c3c9a6c962b8a
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 10:57:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2018, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Maybe ye missed my post lads. Looking for the evidence that convinces you of Russian meddling. Thanks.

https://www.apnews.com/dea73efc01594839957c3c9a6c962b8a
Hard going on a Sunday morning but thanks nonetheless.

So the DNC server was hacked. The Associated Press (an impartial source??) "sketched out an anatomy of the hack......" and ".....drew on forensic data to report Thursday that the hackers known as Fancy Bear were closely aligned with the interests of the Russian government." Has this detail been produced anywhere or do we need to take the the AP's word for it? I mean is there a proven link between Fancy Bear and the Russian Government? I'd imagine the Russian government had plenty of dirt on Clinton a month later after the leak was made public.

According to this link https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/ , "Forensic investigations of documents made public two weeks prior to the July 5 leak by the person or entity known as Guccifer 2.0 show that they were fraudulent: Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language. "
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2018, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 10:57:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2018, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Maybe ye missed my post lads. Looking for the evidence that convinces you of Russian meddling. Thanks.

https://www.apnews.com/dea73efc01594839957c3c9a6c962b8a
Hard going on a Sunday morning but thanks nonetheless.

So the DNC server was hacked. The Associated Press (an impartial source??) "sketched out an anatomy of the hack......" and ".....drew on forensic data to report Thursday that the hackers known as Fancy Bear were closely aligned with the interests of the Russian government." Has this detail been produced anywhere or do we need to take the the AP's word for it? I mean is there a proven link between Fancy Bear and the Russian Government? I'd imagine the Russian government had plenty of dirt on Clinton a month later after the leak was made public.

According to this link https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/ , "Forensic investigations of documents made public two weeks prior to the July 5 leak by the person or entity known as Guccifer 2.0 show that they were fraudulent: Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language. "

This has been widely reported....not just by the AP

The question is did the Trump campaign in any way shape or form co-ordinate the release of the embarrassing emails with the Russians?

Several people on Trumps campaign had interactions with Russians...eg Flynn, Manafort etc.  My understanding is that they made have lied to or misled the FBI as it pertained to these points of contact. All indications are (from what I have seen and read) is that these overtures were all about them lining their own pockets and currying favor rather than influencing the outcome of the election.

The DNC are trying to use this investigation as a way of explaining away Trumps victory and delegitimizing his Presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 05:58:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2018, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 10:57:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2018, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 11, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Maybe ye missed my post lads. Looking for the evidence that convinces you of Russian meddling. Thanks.

https://www.apnews.com/dea73efc01594839957c3c9a6c962b8a
Hard going on a Sunday morning but thanks nonetheless.

So the DNC server was hacked. The Associated Press (an impartial source??) "sketched out an anatomy of the hack......" and ".....drew on forensic data to report Thursday that the hackers known as Fancy Bear were closely aligned with the interests of the Russian government." Has this detail been produced anywhere or do we need to take the the AP's word for it? I mean is there a proven link between Fancy Bear and the Russian Government? I'd imagine the Russian government had plenty of dirt on Clinton a month later after the leak was made public.

According to this link https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/ , "Forensic investigations of documents made public two weeks prior to the July 5 leak by the person or entity known as Guccifer 2.0 show that they were fraudulent: Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language. "

This has been widely reported....not just by the AP

The question is did the Trump campaign in any way shape or form co-ordinate the release of the embarrassing emails with the Russians?

Several people on Trumps campaign had interactions with Russians...eg Flynn, Manafort etc.  My understanding is that they made have lied to or misled the FBI as it pertained to these points of contact. All indications are (from what I have seen and read) is that these overtures were all about them lining their own pockets and currying favor rather than influencing the outcome of the election.

The DNC are trying to use this investigation as a way of explaining away Trumps victory and delegitimizing his Presidency.
But the AP drew on forensic evidence according to the link. They actually carried out the investigation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 08:04:21 PM
http://amp.nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/obamas-gone-so-republicans-stopped-sabotaging-the-economy.html  ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:06:11 PM

Trump on: – Porter: "Hope he has a wonderful career... says he's innocent" – Lewandowski: "How do you know those bruises weren't there before?" – Roy Moore: "He totally denies it" – Roger Ailes: "He helped those women" – Bill O'Reilly: "I don't think Bill did anything wrong"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on February 14, 2018, 09:28:42 AM
Donnie has a wonderfully generous lawyer it seems!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2018, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 14, 2018, 09:28:42 AM
Donnie has a wonderfully generous lawyer it seems!

Must be nice alright  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2018, 02:53:23 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 14, 2018, 09:28:42 AM
Donnie has a wonderfully generous lawyer it seems!

Not as good as Hillarys....  somehow she was able to speak with Comey without being under oath

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/policy/national-security/286849-fbi-didnt-record-clinton-interview-no-sworn-oath%3famp


It's alright for some!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/601/1*2Xia60KgHqhEx9TnT9naIg.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2018, 03:12:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/601/1*2Xia60KgHqhEx9TnT9naIg.jpeg)

I'm glad.....it actually comes in 2 flavors.....D & R
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 14, 2018, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2018, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 14, 2018, 09:28:42 AM
Donnie has a wonderfully generous lawyer it seems!

Must be nice alright  :)

Given Trump's tendency to not pay his creditors, the lawyer's claim that he ended up paying out of his own pocket might actually be true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 14, 2018, 08:16:57 PM
The quote was neither the administration nor the campaign paid. Doesn't say a thing about the miracle cure that is Trump or the rest of the family paying the lawyer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 14, 2018, 09:01:53 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 14, 2018, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2018, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 14, 2018, 09:28:42 AM
Donnie has a wonderfully generous lawyer it seems!

Must be nice alright  :)

Given Trump's tendency to not pay his creditors, the lawyer's claim that he ended up paying out of his own pocket might actually be true.

Read something to the effect of Cohen admitting he paid the money makes the NDA null and void . . . could be stormy times ahead form the orange one!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 14, 2018, 09:36:19 PM
An adult film star who has been embroiled in allegations of an affair with President Donald Trump is free to tell her story, her manager has said.

Stormy Daniels is no longer bound by a non-disclosure contract after Mr Trump's lawyer admitted he paid her, manager Gina Rodriguez says.

Mr Trump's personal lawyer confirmed in a statement to media he privately paid Ms Daniels $130,000 (£95,000) in 2016.

Ms Rodriguez says that acknowledgement allows her client to speak freely.

Porn actress Stormy Daniels alleged in 2011 that she had an affair with Mr Trump in 2006
"Everything is off now, and Stormy is going to tell her story," Ms Rodriguez told the Associated Press on Wednesday.

$130k 18 months ago plus a couple of million this time around? Pretty good business you'd have to say.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on February 14, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
White House will not discuss the status of Melania's parents who arrived in the US last year.

Speculation is chain migration is only good if your in charge and not for the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 15, 2018, 11:17:20 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on February 14, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
White House will not discuss the status of Melania's parents who arrived in the US last year.

Speculation is chain migration is only good if your in charge and not for the GOP.

Let me help you out, the Government likely helped Melania's parents out under the table, that is wrong.

No matter what you say, no matter what way you say it and no matter who you blame, illegal immigration is wrong 100% of the time, 100% and no amount of whataboutery and bullshit can erase that truth!

Hillory Clinton does not give a f**k about anyone other than herself, Pelosi is the same, as is Ryan, Trump etc, the only thing the democrats care about is votes, if the rule of law needs to be bent, broken to garner a few votes f**k that law, they sicken me to my core the corrupt c***ts!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
13 Russians charged by the Special Counsel's office today with meddling in the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 16, 2018, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
13 Russians charged by the Special Counsel's office today with meddling in the election

Does this delegitimise the result??

Sorry I mean more than it has already been delegitimised?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2018, 07:35:27 PM
And another one - https://twitter.com/AriMelber/status/964575838418227200

this is supposedly the guy who sold the fake identities to the Russians
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 17, 2018, 12:16:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2018, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
13 Russians charged by the Special Counsel's office today with meddling in the election

Does this delegitimise the result??

Sorry I mean more than it has already been delegitimised?

Hahaha.....so because some Russians set up false social media profiles and spread misinformation on Facebook and Twitter the result of the election is invalid?????? 

What about all the misinformation beamed directly into Americas living rooms by CNN and MSNBC every night? Would that have invalidated the result of the election had Hillary won?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2018, 12:24:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 17, 2018, 12:16:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2018, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
13 Russians charged by the Special Counsel's office today with meddling in the election

Does this delegitimise the result??

Sorry I mean more than it has already been delegitimised?

Hahaha.....so because some Russians set up false social media profiles and spread misinformation on Facebook and Twitter the result of the election is invalid?????? 

What about all the misinformation beamed directly into Americas living rooms by CNN and MSNBC every night? Would that have invalidated the result of the election had Hillary won?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ODPdiFZA8PYkg/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 17, 2018, 12:30:44 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2018, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
13 Russians charged by the Special Counsel's office today with meddling in the election

Does this delegitimise the result??

Sorry I mean more than it has already been delegitimised?

And the President is?????

You lot should be used to this after a certain Global warming expert ran and got fucked on hanging Chads!

Take your medicine like a man. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 17, 2018, 12:36:38 AM
Who was it was asking for evidence of the Russians meddling?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 17, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 17, 2018, 12:24:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 17, 2018, 12:16:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 16, 2018, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
13 Russians charged by the Special Counsel's office today with meddling in the election

Does this delegitimise the result??

Sorry I mean more than it has already been delegitimised?

Hahaha.....so because some Russians set up false social media profiles and spread misinformation on Facebook and Twitter the result of the election is invalid?????? 

What about all the misinformation beamed directly into Americas living rooms by CNN and MSNBC every night? Would that have invalidated the result of the election had Hillary won?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ODPdiFZA8PYkg/giphy.gif)

They were helping Bernie too against Hillary in the Primaries


You know that by sending out a Tweet that says "Vote Jill Stein", committed Hillary voters immediately saw the error of their ways and switched their vote......it works every time!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 17, 2018, 04:36:31 AM
Just checking in here fella, because it looks as if you are saying:

In your mind, Russian meddling in the election is the same as CNN and MSNBC's editorial opinions?

Are you impaired in some way?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 17, 2018, 12:20:24 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 17, 2018, 04:36:31 AM
Just checking in here fella, because it looks as if you are saying:

In your mind, Russian meddling in the election is the same as CNN and MSNBC's editorial opinions?

Are you impaired in some way?

Thats exactly what Im saying

Which do you think would have more of a direct impact on the electorate?

Dan Rathers "exclusive" on 60 Minutes  which seriously maligned George W Bush  including "smoking gun" original documents (and was immediately rebroadcast by every news program on the planet)

OR

A Tweet that stated......."Vote for Jill Stein......your vote wont be wasted"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 17, 2018, 01:19:46 PM
Bit early to be saucing isn't it?

Never change whitey hahaha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 17, 2018, 04:04:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 17, 2018, 12:36:38 AM
Who was it was asking for evidence of the Russians meddling?
Me. Still asking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 17, 2018, 05:35:25 PM
Ah - you are one of those people.  ::)

I thought you were serious for a while.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 17, 2018, 06:23:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 17, 2018, 05:35:25 PM
Ah - you are one of those people.  ::)

I thought you were serious for a while.
And you're one of those. Conspiracy theories everywhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 18, 2018, 09:46:40 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 16, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
13 Russians charged by the Special Counsel's office today with meddling in the election

Good, let the truth come out regardless of who is implicated and from what side of the aisle they hail, the last thing America needs is another cover up, bring it on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 18, 2018, 04:27:00 PM
Apparently the FBI is now 4 people in a room who are somehow too busy investigating Russian interference in us elections to investigate crazy (literally) kids.

This is what we have come to. The next president is going to have some job unravelling this mess made by cronyism and self interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 18, 2018, 06:25:00 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 18, 2018, 04:27:00 PM
Apparently the FBI is now 4 people in a room who are somehow too busy investigating Russian interference in us elections to investigate crazy (literally) kids.

This is what we have come to. The next president is going to have some job unravelling this mess made by cronyism and self interest.

The next President will in fact be a crony and be self interested, its what they do!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 18, 2018, 07:20:05 PM
Somewhat true Stew of course, but I think this is peak nepotism and cronyism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on February 19, 2018, 11:33:04 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 18, 2018, 07:20:05 PM
Somewhat true Stew of course, but I think this is peak nepotism and cronyism
Wait until it is Chelsea Clinton v Jack Schlossberg in the Democratic primaries with Ivanka Trump v One of the Bush twins in the Republican primaries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 23, 2018, 12:06:21 AM
Hour long discussion between Jim Risen and Glenn Greenwald on the alleged Russian interference in the US election. Well worth your time (after the first 5 minutes or so, anyway).

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/21/video-glenn-greenwald-and-james-risen-debate-the-trumprussia-investigation/ (https://theintercept.com/2018/02/21/video-glenn-greenwald-and-james-risen-debate-the-trumprussia-investigation/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 23, 2018, 08:34:10 PM
QuoteA former top adviser to President Donald Trump's election campaign has formally pleaded guilty to federal conspiracy and false statements charges in the special counsel's Russia investigation.

The plea by Rick Gates is a strong indication that he is planning to cooperate with special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation as it continues to probe the Trump campaign, Russian election interference and Gates' longtime business associate, Paul Manafort.

The 45-year-old Gates made the plea at the federal courthouse in Washington. It comes a day after Gates and Manafort were indicted in Virginia on new charges of tax evasion and bank fraud. Manafort, who is Trump's former campaign chairman, has said he is innocent.

QuotePresident Donald Trump's former campaign chairman is maintaining his innocence after his longtime business associate pleaded guilty to federal charges.

Paul Manafort says in a statement that the plea by Rick Gates on Friday does not change his commitment to defend himself against what he calls "untrue piled up charges." Manafort says he had "hoped and expected" that Gates would have "the strength" to continue to trial. He says Gates chose to plead guilty for "reasons yet to surface."

Gates has pleaded guilty to federal conspiracy and false statements charges in the special counsel's Russia investigation.

The plea is a strong indication that Gates is planning to cooperate with special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation as it continues to probe the Trump campaign, Russian election interference and Manafort.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 23, 2018, 10:26:01 PM
Can someone clarify something for me? Are there two (or more) elements to the "Russian Interference" allegations? One being the use of social media by a handful of people in St. Petersburg and the second being the hacking of the DNC server and subsequent use of that information? Is that right? Is there more?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 23, 2018, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 23, 2018, 10:26:01 PM
Can someone clarify something for me? Are there two (or more) elements to the "Russian Interference" allegations? One being the use of social media by a handful of people in St. Petersburg and the second being the hacking of the DNC server and subsequent use of that information? Is that right? Is there more?

Don't think there is really any doubt about he above.

Did the Trump campaign know about it, how much did they know and did they cultivate or encourage it in any way are the big questions!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on February 23, 2018, 10:56:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 23, 2018, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 23, 2018, 10:26:01 PM
Can someone clarify something for me? Are there two (or more) elements to the "Russian Interference" allegations? One being the use of social media by a handful of people in St. Petersburg and the second being the hacking of the DNC server and subsequent use of that information? Is that right? Is there more?

Don't think there is really any doubt about he above.

Did the Trump campaign know about it, how much did they know and did they cultivate or encourage it in any way are the big questions!!
Well let's not get into what anyone is sure about.

Sorry, I meant to say to leave Trump out of it for the time being. It's the social media ads and the hacking that we're talking about? That's it? And then it's who did what with the information that was hacked?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2018, 05:33:22 PM
The lad from InfoWars? Really?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 25, 2018, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!

That dude is not a reliable source stew!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 25, 2018, 06:00:30 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 25, 2018, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!

That dude is not a reliable source stew!!

Did you watch the video?

What exactly did he lie about????

The Swedes are absolutely killing their culture, they will be a mnority in their own country by 2050, the left has fucked them every which way.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 25, 2018, 06:27:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 06:00:30 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 25, 2018, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!

That dude is not a reliable source stew!!

Did you watch the video?

What exactly did he lie about????

The Swedes are absolutely killing their culture, they will be a mnority in their own country by 2050, the left has fucked them every which way.

I've seen enough of Watson's videos to know he's another Alex Jones mouthpiece who distorts facts in order to pretend the world is being taken over by Islam and global elitists.

Yes the Muslim population is growing in the West but are they going to be in the majority in 2050?? No!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 25, 2018, 10:36:28 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 25, 2018, 06:27:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 06:00:30 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 25, 2018, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!

That dude is not a reliable source stew!!

Did you watch the video?

What exactly did he lie about????

The Swedes are absolutely killing their culture, they will be a mnority in their own country by 2050, the left has fucked them every which way.

I've seen enough of Watson's videos to know he's another Alex Jones mouthpiece who distorts facts in order to pretend the world is being taken over by Islam and global elitists.

Yes the Muslim population is growing in the West but are they going to be in the majority in 2050?? No!

I never said they were going to be in the majority in Europe in 2050.

I said they will be the majority in Sweden in 2050 not Europe as a whole.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2018, 10:53:14 PM
Paul Joseph Watson  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You're an awful fool, Stewpid.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 26, 2018, 12:03:07 AM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 10:36:28 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 25, 2018, 06:27:36 PM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 06:00:30 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 25, 2018, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!

That dude is not a reliable source stew!!

Did you watch the video?

What exactly did he lie about????

The Swedes are absolutely killing their culture, they will be a mnority in their own country by 2050, the left has fucked them every which way.

I've seen enough of Watson's videos to know he's another Alex Jones mouthpiece who distorts facts in order to pretend the world is being taken over by Islam and global elitists.

Yes the Muslim population is growing in the West but are they going to be in the majority in 2050?? No!

I never said they were going to be in the majority in Europe in 2050.

I said they will be the majority in Sweden in 2050 not Europe as a whole.

OK I've watched the video so I'll have to have a shower now!! What a load of propagandist nonsense. At least half the articles quoted are his own for Infowars which hardly stands up to evidentiary and journalistic scrutiny!!

Where is the evidence that Muslim's will be in the majority by 2050 Stew? He says it in his video but what's it backed up with?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/29/muslim-population-in-europe-could-more-than-double

Educate yourself properly and don't believe the first thing you read or see of Facebook!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 26, 2018, 12:45:01 AM
I wonder why white Republicans so scared of the possibility of one day being a minority.... 


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2018, 05:03:30 AM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!
I thought you were from Armagh, Stew. Projection is a hoor 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2018, 08:48:25 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 26, 2018, 12:45:01 AM
I wonder why white Republicans so scared of the possibility of one day being a minority....

Keep drinking the liberal masters kool aid Jell O, White republicans! Listen to yourself.

The left are the ones obsessed with race, not the republicans, you people are special, the liberal elite keep pounding out their agenda and the lapdogs do what they do best, lap it up and spew it out, think for yourself for once man, republicans know they area a minority already, a better question would be, what could the liberal elite possibly have to gain by letting all comers in to the USA, I will give you a hint, the answers rhyme with honey and goats!.

In the last election you lot managed to cheat to get the single most unpopular woman in political history to run for you against of all people Donald J Trump and you lost, the shock waves around the world were incredible and not once have you lot taken ownership for the cancer pervading your party!

So keep rolling out the Liberal Hollywood elite to tell everyone what way they should live their lives/vote and sit back and enjoy having DJT as your President for the next six and a half years, nobody has ever done less with more than Pelosi, Clinton and the current corrupt Democratic party, it is amazing to me how utterly bereft of talent, morals and decency you are at the moment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2018, 09:23:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2018, 05:03:30 AM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!
I thought you were from Armagh, Stew. Projection is a hoor

Armagh is a city not a country there Foid, if that was meant to offend it did not work.

95.6% of rapes in the country of Sweden are carried out by foreign nationals, that is incredible, awful and if I was a Swede I would be outraged, I am outraged, but if they wont do anything about this abuse why should anyone else care?

Sids utopia is dying, that is what extreme liberalism does, Sweden will never recover from the blight that is overextending themselves when it comes to refugees, they are going to be a minority in their own  country and  seem hell bent of destroying their own culture to accomodate refugees, that is a special kind of fucked!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2018, 09:33:33 AM
Quote from: stew on February 26, 2018, 09:23:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2018, 05:03:30 AM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!
I thought you were from Armagh, Stew. Projection is a hoor

Armagh is a city not a country there Foid, if that was meant to offend it did not work.

95.6% of rapes in the country of Sweden are carried out by foreign nationals, that is incredible, awful and if I was a Swede I would be outraged, I am outraged, but if they wont do anything about this abuse why should anyone else care?

Sids utopia is dying, that is what extreme liberalism does, Sweden will never recover from the blight that is overextending themselves when it comes to refugees, they are going to be a minority in their own  country and  seem hell bent of destroying their own culture to accomodate refugees, that is a special kind of fucked!

Refugees become middle class , Stew. They end up like MR2, searching out wine bargains . Even the Muslims  ! 
Sweden will be grand. You should dial down your Fox intake.

Fox is 120% Bullshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xrUH1_eiB0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2018, 11:20:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2018, 09:33:33 AM
Quote from: stew on February 26, 2018, 09:23:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2018, 05:03:30 AM
Quote from: stew on February 25, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1976977082329769/?t=205

Sid Wadell told us all the best country in the world was Sweden of all places.

It is a shithole, not a great country and the liberals are the reason why!
I thought you were from Armagh, Stew. Projection is a hoor

Armagh is a city not a country there Foid, if that was meant to offend it did not work.

95.6% of rapes in the country of Sweden are carried out by foreign nationals, that is incredible, awful and if I was a Swede I would be outraged, I am outraged, but if they wont do anything about this abuse why should anyone else care?

Sids utopia is dying, that is what extreme liberalism does, Sweden will never recover from the blight that is overextending themselves when it comes to refugees, they are going to be a minority in their own  country and  seem hell bent of destroying their own culture to accomodate refugees, that is a special kind of fucked!

Refugees become middle class , Stew. They end up like MR2, searching out wine bargains . Even the Muslims  ! 
Sweden will be grand. You should dial down your Fox intake.

Fox is 120% Bullshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xrUH1_eiB0

120% is impossible but then you liberals were always shit with numbers.

You are just another tired liberal who throws out lines about Fox, you dont know me or what I watch, I watch most of the main channels for news with the exception of MSNBC because they are fucked in the head.

Change the record and be accountable for the erosion of the male of the species by your people, you people are trying to turn men into non gender specific things and that wont f**king fly.

By the way, from what I see in my home town there are a lot of very hard working EU citizens from all over Europe working their asses off to get ahead, the refugees from the middle east? Not so much, but they are great at flashing their money in the shopsto klet you know they are doing just fine without working, it is no wonder they want to flood into the UK, why wouldnt they!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on February 26, 2018, 11:38:30 AM
Now it's getting nasty.

See those people. Those muslims. That's the label we'll use. They're all the same. They're different t you. You're better but they're getting all the breaks. At your expense. We have to do something about it. This is our country.

You know where that stuff leads. You're better than that. Aren't you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 26, 2018, 11:58:38 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 26, 2018, 11:38:30 AM
Now it's getting nasty.

See those people. Those muslims. That's the label we'll use. They're all the same. They're different t you. You're better but they're getting all the breaks. At your expense. We have to do something about it. This is our country.
=
You know where that stuff leads. You're better than that. Aren't you?

I agree ( I refuse to use the +1 responce)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2018, 01:04:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 26, 2018, 11:38:30 AM
Now it's getting nasty.

See those people. Those muslims. That's the label we'll use. They're all the same. They're different t you. You're better but they're getting all the breaks. At your expense. We have to do something about it. This is our country.

You know where that stuff leads. You're better than that. Aren't you?

Dont patronise me! I have never seen a single one work in Armagh, not a f**king one of them! I do see the mponey they are fanning about, I do see the fact they are cold, unfriendly people so far to a man/woman.

No one is better than anyone else, I have always maintained that and I work and pay my taxes, I hate snowflake liberals with a passion, I work for what I get, I dont like people who come here and get everything handed to them without lifting a finger in the same way I have no regard for Irish long term dole merchants who are too f**king lazy to get off theior asses and contribute!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on February 26, 2018, 01:50:31 PM
Stew, FFS. Would you look at what you're saying.

" I have never seen a single one work in Armagh, not a f**king one of them!"
" I do see the fact they are cold, unfriendly people so far to a man/woman."

Do you not realise how that sounds? Are you seriously saying that every single Muslim person who is allowed to work (what's the rules around them working in NI?) is refusing to? And they are all 'cold and unfriendly'. I mean seriously?

You are the master of hyperbole, but that sort of talk is straight out of UKIP. Is that whom you wish to be aligned with, in terms of your thinking?  And have you ever, once, thought that maybe they are not 'cold and unfriendly' people. Maybe they are thousands of miles from home, shy and nervous, and avoiding social interaction precisely because of the sort of venom you have just said? If I was in a town where I knew people said I was a lazy sponger, and very unfriendly and 'cold', I'd be avoiding too much contact, hoping to avoid confrontation.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2018, 02:03:55 PM
Musilm family have lived next door to me for 12 years, both work, have property that they rent out, 3 very smart kids that have nearly all finished their college courses and will be staying to get jobs, they are not shy and sometimes I've to make up and excuse to get into the house when the husband is waffeling on! Ive never heard a peep from them or when their extended family or friends come round and close down the road in their fancy cars! All paying tax!

The father even went to work in London to be near the son who was having a mare while in College in London, eventaully taking him back home to finish the course in Queens, Ive yet to find this Muslim you talk about stew, though I know plent of fecking home grown wasters who'll not think twice about stealing your car , break into your house and tell you how to get the most money from the dole!!

But hey, Muslims are an easy target, bit like the Irish when they first went to England and the States
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2018, 02:12:09 PM
I've said it before, but this site desperately needs some sane, intelligent conservative contributers. This thread and many of those like it have gone to the f**king dogs and aren't worth bothering with any more. Most of it is taken up with futile (as in logic and facts don't seem to matter) attempts to debunk far right, paranoid, half-baked nonsense. Its like a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. Same shit keeps coming back, unchanged, undeterred, unmoved by reason and logic and evidence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2018, 03:29:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2018, 02:12:09 PM
I've said it before, but this site desperately needs some sane, intelligent conservative contributers. This thread and many of those like it have gone to the f**king dogs and aren't worth bothering with any more. Most of it is taken up with futile (as in logic and facts don't seem to matter) attempts to debunk far right, paranoid, half-baked nonsense. Its like a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. Same shit keeps coming back, unchanged, undeterred, unmoved by reason and logic and evidence.
I think that is a reflection of what has happened conservatism as politics has become polarised. There are very few reasonable people left in the GOP in DC now. Flake and Collins are the only names that spring to mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 26, 2018, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2018, 02:03:55 PM
Musilm family have lived next door to me for 12 years, both work, have property that they rent out, 3 very smart kids that have nearly all finished their college courses and will be staying to get jobs, they are not shy and sometimes I've to make up and excuse to get into the house when the husband is waffeling on! Ive never heard a peep from them or when their extended family or friends come round and close down the road in their fancy cars! All paying tax!

The father even went to work in London to be near the son who was having a mare while in College in London, eventaully taking him back home to finish the course in Queens, Ive yet to find this Muslim you talk about stew, though I know plent of fecking home grown wasters who'll not think twice about stealing your car , break into your house and tell you how to get the most money from the dole!!

But hey, Muslims are an easy target, bit like the Irish when they first went to England and the States
I'm not disagreeing with you but that type of response just plays along with Stew's racist agenda and empowers his type of argument.
The real issue here is the blaggardly racist agenda, not the integrity of muslims.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2018, 10:34:49 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 26, 2018, 01:50:31 PM
Stew, FFS. Would you look at what you're saying.

" I have never seen a single one work in Armagh, not a f**king one of them!"
" I do see the fact they are cold, unfriendly people so far to a man/woman."

Do you not realise how that sounds? Are you seriously saying that every single Muslim person who is allowed to work (what's the rules around them working in NI?) is refusing to? And they are all 'cold and unfriendly'. I mean seriously?

You are the master of hyperbole, but that sort of talk is straight out of UKIP. Is that whom you wish to be aligned with, in terms of your thinking?  And have you ever, once, thought that maybe they are not 'cold and unfriendly' people. Maybe they are thousands of miles from home, shy and nervous, and avoiding social interaction precisely because of the sort of venom you have just said? If I was in a town where I knew people said I was a lazy sponger, and very unfriendly and 'cold', I'd be avoiding too much contact, hoping to avoid confrontation.

I have three families of them living in my apartment block, they are rude, inconsiderate arseholes who leave the front door open so everyone can hear them scream at one another, ther parties are special, they have had the cops called on them twice an d one of the f**kers was arrested once for batin seven shades of shit out of his missus, and her with a newborn, its madness.

Of course not all of them are spongers, they are like everyone else in that there are good and bad among their people, I have yet to experience any good at all to be honest, that said point taken on the Irish that would steal the eye out of your head, as for UKIP, no, I wold not want to be aligned with them, I am speaking to my experience thus far.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2018, 10:36:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2018, 02:12:09 PM
I've said it before, but this site desperately needs some sane, intelligent conservative contributers. This thread and many of those like it have gone to the f**king dogs and aren't worth bothering with any more. Most of it is taken up with futile (as in logic and facts don't seem to matter) attempts to debunk far right, paranoid, half-baked nonsense. Its like a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. Same shit keeps coming back, unchanged, undeterred, unmoved by reason and logic and evidence.

I know right! Where would we be without your liberal calm, the leftist rationale?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2018, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 26, 2018, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2018, 02:03:55 PM
Musilm family have lived next door to me for 12 years, both work, have property that they rent out, 3 very smart kids that have nearly all finished their college courses and will be staying to get jobs, they are not shy and sometimes I've to make up and excuse to get into the house when the husband is waffeling on! Ive never heard a peep from them or when their extended family or friends come round and close down the road in their fancy cars! All paying tax!

The father even went to work in London to be near the son who was having a mare while in College in London, eventaully taking him back home to finish the course in Queens, Ive yet to find this Muslim you talk about stew, though I know plent of fecking home grown wasters who'll not think twice about stealing your car , break into your house and tell you how to get the most money from the dole!!

But hey, Muslims are an easy target, bit like the Irish when they first went to England and the States
I'm not disagreeing with you but that type of response just plays along with Stew's racist agenda and empowers his type of argument.
The real issue here is the blaggardly racist agenda, not the integrity of muslims.

Just because liberals claim racism does not mean that racism exists lads, true story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2018, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: stew on February 26, 2018, 10:34:49 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 26, 2018, 01:50:31 PM
Stew, FFS. Would you look at what you're saying.

" I have never seen a single one work in Armagh, not a f**king one of them!"
" I do see the fact they are cold, unfriendly people so far to a man/woman."

Do you not realise how that sounds? Are you seriously saying that every single Muslim person who is allowed to work (what's the rules around them working in NI?) is refusing to? And they are all 'cold and unfriendly'. I mean seriously?

You are the master of hyperbole, but that sort of talk is straight out of UKIP. Is that whom you wish to be aligned with, in terms of your thinking?  And have you ever, once, thought that maybe they are not 'cold and unfriendly' people. Maybe they are thousands of miles from home, shy and nervous, and avoiding social interaction precisely because of the sort of venom you have just said? If I was in a town where I knew people said I was a lazy sponger, and very unfriendly and 'cold', I'd be avoiding too much contact, hoping to avoid confrontation.

I have three families of them living in my apartment block, they are rude, inconsiderate arseholes who leave the front door open so everyone can hear them scream at one another, ther parties are special, they have had the cops called on them twice an d one of the f**kers was arrested once for batin seven shades of shit out of his missus, and her with a newborn, its madness.

Of course not all of them are spongers, they are like everyone else in that there are good and bad among their people, I have yet to experience any good at all to be honest, that said point taken on the Irish that would steal the eye out of your head, as for UKIP, no, I wold not want to be aligned with them, I am speaking to my experience thus far.

Over 3000 deaths in the north during the troubles, no Muslims involved during that period, just good old white Europeans, you know the type?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2018, 10:46:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2018, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: stew on February 26, 2018, 10:34:49 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 26, 2018, 01:50:31 PM
Stew, FFS. Would you look at what you're saying.

" I have never seen a single one work in Armagh, not a f**king one of them!"
" I do see the fact they are cold, unfriendly people so far to a man/woman."

Do you not realise how that sounds? Are you seriously saying that every single Muslim person who is allowed to work (what's the rules around them working in NI?) is refusing to? And they are all 'cold and unfriendly'. I mean seriously?

You are the master of hyperbole, but that sort of talk is straight out of UKIP. Is that whom you wish to be aligned with, in terms of your thinking?  And have you ever, once, thought that maybe they are not 'cold and unfriendly' people. Maybe they are thousands of miles from home, shy and nervous, and avoiding social interaction precisely because of the sort of venom you have just said? If I was in a town where I knew people said I was a lazy sponger, and very unfriendly and 'cold', I'd be avoiding too much contact, hoping to avoid confrontation.

I have three families of them living in my apartment block, they are rude, inconsiderate arseholes who leave the front door open so everyone can hear them scream at one another, ther parties are special, they have had the cops called on them twice an d one of the f**kers was arrested once for batin seven shades of shit out of his missus, and her with a newborn, its madness.

Of course not all of them are spongers, they are like everyone else in that there are good and bad among their people, I have yet to experience any good at all to be honest, that said point taken on the Irish that would steal the eye out of your head, as for UKIP, no, I wold not want to be aligned with them, I am speaking to my experience thus far.

Over 3000 deaths in the north during the troubles, no Muslims involved during that period, just good old white Europeans, you know the type?

The 14 Muslims that were here behaved impeccably during the troubles it's a pity they cant stop gang raping women in Sweden however, since, you know, they have hit that country like a tidal wave!

95.6% of rapes in Sweden are said to be caused by Foreign nationals, rape is up over 1600% since the eighties, that is madness!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on February 26, 2018, 10:48:40 PM
Stew, my experience of Muslims is entirely different.  In my over 30 years of teaching, I've taught a good number of Muslims, and all, bar none, have been excellent. Bright and highly motivated, they've gone on to be doctors, lawyers, engineers.

I recall, too, growing up in Armagh at a time when no one knew a Muslim from a half door and the only person without a pale face was Gupta in Ogle Street. Then, there were a couple of Irish families in my own neighborhood who were not averse to starting a row.

Rudeness is not particular to one creed or one ethnic group. It is a universally human trait.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2018, 10:51:13 PM
Jesus lad you have a twisted logic! Sweden? Go to bed you'll feel better
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 26, 2018, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 26, 2018, 10:48:40 PM
Stew, my experience of Muslims is entirely different.  In my over 30 years of teaching, I've taught a good number of Muslims, and all, bar none, have been excellent. Bright and highly motivated, they've gone on to be doctors, lawyers, engineers.

I recall, too, growing up in Armagh at a time when no one knew a Muslim from a half door and the only person without a pale face was Gupta in Ogle Street. Then, there were a couple of Irish families in my own neighborhood who were not averse to starting a row.

Rudeness is not particular to one creed or one ethnic group. It is a universally human trait.

I know this, one of my best mates is a Muslim Doctor from Cyprus, I am simply saying that the ones I have met since I have been back, and I have a small sample size have been absolute c***ts! Thats all I am saying!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on February 26, 2018, 11:59:41 PM
Quote from: stew on February 26, 2018, 10:46:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2018, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: stew on February 26, 2018, 10:34:49 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 26, 2018, 01:50:31 PM
Stew, FFS. Would you look at what you're saying.

" I have never seen a single one work in Armagh, not a f**king one of them!"
" I do see the fact they are cold, unfriendly people so far to a man/woman."

Do you not realise how that sounds? Are you seriously saying that every single Muslim person who is allowed to work (what's the rules around them working in NI?) is refusing to? And they are all 'cold and unfriendly'. I mean seriously?

You are the master of hyperbole, but that sort of talk is straight out of UKIP. Is that whom you wish to be aligned with, in terms of your thinking?  And have you ever, once, thought that maybe they are not 'cold and unfriendly' people. Maybe they are thousands of miles from home, shy and nervous, and avoiding social interaction precisely because of the sort of venom you have just said? If I was in a town where I knew people said I was a lazy sponger, and very unfriendly and 'cold', I'd be avoiding too much contact, hoping to avoid confrontation.

I have three families of them living in my apartment block, they are rude, inconsiderate arseholes who leave the front door open so everyone can hear them scream at one another, ther parties are special, they have had the cops called on them twice an d one of the f**kers was arrested once for batin seven shades of shit out of his missus, and her with a newborn, its madness.

Of course not all of them are spongers, they are like everyone else in that there are good and bad among their people, I have yet to experience any good at all to be honest, that said point taken on the Irish that would steal the eye out of your head, as for UKIP, no, I wold not want to be aligned with them, I am speaking to my experience thus far.

Over 3000 deaths in the north during the troubles, no Muslims involved during that period, just good old white Europeans, you know the type?

The 14 Muslims that were here behaved impeccably during the troubles it's a pity they cant stop gang raping women in Sweden however, since, you know, they have hit that country like a tidal wave!

95.6% of rapes in Sweden are said to be caused by Foreign nationals, rape is up over 1600% since the eighties, that is madness!

Have you a link for these stats? Cos they sound like complete bullshit. For the first to be true, 288/6560 rapes would need to be carried out by Swedes and the remaining 6272 by foreigners. For the second to be true, there would need to have been only 410 rape cases in 1980
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2018, 12:47:43 AM
Snopes rates the Swedish rape claim as False.

QuoteCrime In Sweden, Part I: Is Sweden the 'Rape Capital' of Europe? (https://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/)
Claims that Sweden leads the world in sexual assault and rape are not supported by data.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 27, 2018, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2018, 12:47:43 AM
Snopes rates the Swedish rape claim as False.

QuoteCrime In Sweden, Part I: Is Sweden the 'Rape Capital' of Europe? (https://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/)
Claims that Sweden leads the world in sexual assault and rape are not supported by data.

The Swedish Govt refuses to break the data down by race/ethnicity, the figures I quoted were from independent companies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 27, 2018, 02:43:10 AM
My figures show that all rapes in Sweden were carried out by a guy call Sven. He's blonde, about yo high, and an atheist from Hammarstrand.

That is an independent opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 27, 2018, 04:32:11 PM
Rick Gates has had his charges dismissed!!

Was wondering why Donny was so busy tweeting this morning??! Hopefully Gates has given Mueller some good information . . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 27, 2018, 05:03:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 27, 2018, 04:32:11 PM
Rick Gates has had his charges dismissed!!

Was wondering why Donny was so busy tweeting this morning??! Hopefully Gates has given Mueller some good information . . .

I might be way off, but I said from day one there was no collusion.......contact yes, but collusion no.

These guys like Manafort never thought Trump would win, but were positioning themselves to line their pockets big time with lobbying deals etc.  Much of what they did was illegal and they lied about it, but I highly doubtnthey were colluding with the Russians to influence the election

With all the $hit thats coming out anout Fusion GPS, Imthink the Democrats and Hillary look like they were colluding a lot more than Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 27, 2018, 05:08:33 PM
Busy night watching Hannity last night?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2018, 05:18:16 PM
This is straight out of Scooby Do


The Hill

@thehill

JUST IN: Trump EPA to shut down office handling research on chemicals' effects on children's health (link: http://hill.cm/7XBOIZ1) hill.cm/7XBOIZ1

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2018, 05:30:38 PM
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-orders-parade-to-celebrate-his-hypothetical-act-of-heroism-in-florida-school/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 27, 2018, 05:31:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 27, 2018, 05:08:33 PM
Busy night watching Hannity last night?

Havent watched Fox in 10 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2018, 07:17:37 PM
This is strange

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/albertonardelli/the-mysterious-professor-at-the-center-of-the-russia-trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 27, 2018, 07:36:37 PM
Trump wants movies to have a age rating to limit exposure to violence. What a visionary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 27, 2018, 07:48:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2018, 05:03:10 PMImthink the Democrats and Hillary look like they were colluding a lot more than Trump

Is colluding a crime now? I can't keep up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2018, 07:49:09 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on February 26, 2018, 10:48:40 PM
Stew, my experience of Muslims is entirely different.  In my over 30 years of teaching, I've taught a good number of Muslims, and all, bar none, have been excellent. Bright and highly motivated, they've gone on to be doctors, lawyers, engineers.

I recall, too, growing up in Armagh at a time when no one knew a Muslim from a half door and the only person without a pale face was Gupta in Ogle Street. Then, there were a couple of Irish families in my own neighborhood who were not averse to starting a row.

Rudeness is not particular to one creed or one ethnic group. It is a universally human trait.

My experience of Muslims has been similarly positive. Smart,  hardworking, kind people who value education.
The real enemy is the plutocrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2018, 09:37:00 PM
Quote from: stew on February 27, 2018, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2018, 12:47:43 AM
Snopes rates the Swedish rape claim as False.

QuoteCrime In Sweden, Part I: Is Sweden the 'Rape Capital' of Europe? (https://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/)
Claims that Sweden leads the world in sexual assault and rape are not supported by data.

The Swedish Govt refuses to break the data down by race/ethnicity, the figures I quoted were from independent companies.

Name them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 28, 2018, 12:25:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 27, 2018, 05:08:33 PM
Busy night watching Hannity last night?

Do you and your ilk ever get tired of playing the fox news card?? Is that all you got???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2018, 02:48:44 AM
So now Gates and Flynn have flipped.
Mueller is playing DC chess.

Plus this

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/554432/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 28, 2018, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: stew on February 28, 2018, 12:25:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 27, 2018, 05:08:33 PM
Busy night watching Hannity last night?

Do you and your ilk ever get tired of playing the fox news card?? Is that all you got???

Well if you are going to quote a Fox News video what do you expect??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2018, 10:42:51 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 28, 2018, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: stew on February 28, 2018, 12:25:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 27, 2018, 05:08:33 PM
Busy night watching Hannity last night?

Do you and your ilk ever get tired of playing the fox news card?? Is that all you got???

Well if you are going to quote a Fox News video what do you expect??!!

how can i have quoted a fox news video, when i dont watch fox news.........havent watched it in 10 years. 

I shared an opinion that I formulated having read and listened to many, many sources over many months. Actually Morning Joe on MSNBC is my go to political show and the WSJ is where I go for counter opinions

thats the liberal m.o. though......if someone voices an opinion that doesnt fit their narrative, they must have heard it on fox news.......therefore the only opinions that have validity are theirs


https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-unwitting-standout-of-the-mueller-indictment-1519398000
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2018, 07:35:53 PM
@EricBoehlert

guy who paid off porn actress while cheating on wife now eulogizing Billy Graham. today's GOP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2018, 09:35:47 PM
Rats .......... sinking ship ...........

QuoteHope Hicks, the White House communications director and one of President Trump’s longest-serving advisers, said Wednesday that she was resigning.

Ms. Hicks, 29, a former model who joined Mr. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign without any experience in politics, became known as one of the few aides who understood his personality and style and could challenge the president to change his views.

Ms. Hicks had been considering leaving for several months. She told colleagues that she had accomplished what she felt she could with a job that made her one of the most powerful people in Washington, and that there would never be a perfect moment to leave, according to White House aides.

Her resignation came a day after she testified for eight hours before the House Intelligence Committee, telling the panel that in her job, she had occasionally been required to tell white lies but had never lied about anything connected to the investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

She did not say what her next job would be, and it was unclear what the departure date is, although it is likely to be in the next few weeks. Ms. Hicks said she had “no words” to express her gratitude to the president, who responded with his own statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2018, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2018, 09:35:47 PM
Rats .......... sinking ship ...........

QuoteHope Hicks, the White House communications director and one of President Trump's longest-serving advisers, said Wednesday that she was resigning.

Ms. Hicks, 29, a former model who joined Mr. Trump's 2016 presidential campaign without any experience in politics, became known as one of the few aides who understood his personality and style and could challenge the president to change his views.

Ms. Hicks had been considering leaving for several months. She told colleagues that she had accomplished what she felt she could with a job that made her one of the most powerful people in Washington, and that there would never be a perfect moment to leave, according to White House aides.

Her resignation came a day after she testified for eight hours before the House Intelligence Committee, telling the panel that in her job, she had occasionally been required to tell white lies but had never lied about anything connected to the investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election.

She did not say what her next job would be, and it was unclear what the departure date is, although it is likely to be in the next few weeks. Ms. Hicks said she had "no words" to express her gratitude to the president, who responded with his own statement.
it is an impossible job.
Kelly is also struggling
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2018, 10:35:52 PM
Maybe he's banging someone else now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 28, 2018, 10:55:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2018, 10:35:52 PM
Maybe he's banging someone else now.

Probably is, he should be taken care of that incredible wife of his the dumb facker!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on February 28, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
Soi a teacher decides it might be fun to barricade himself in a classroom and fire a single shout out the window! Hopefully that will put an end to arming teachers, that has to be one of the most fucked up idea's in American history!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: stew on February 28, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
Soi a teacher decides it might be fun to barricade himself in a classroom and fire a single shout out the window! Hopefully that will put an end to arming teachers, that has to be one of the most fucked up idea's in American history!

By one of the most fucked up heads of state ever! Clown, are they that dumb over there that they will vote him back in for a second term?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 01, 2018, 09:47:08 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2018, 09:35:47 PM
Rats .......... sinking ship ...........

QuoteHope Hicks, the White House communications director and one of President Trump's longest-serving advisers, said Wednesday that she was resigning.

Ms. Hicks, 29, a former model who joined Mr. Trump's 2016 presidential campaign without any experience in politics, became known as one of the few aides who understood his personality and style and could challenge the president to change his views.

Ms. Hicks had been considering leaving for several months. She told colleagues that she had accomplished what she felt she could with a job that made her one of the most powerful people in Washington, and that there would never be a perfect moment to leave, according to White House aides.

Her resignation came a day after she testified for eight hours before the House Intelligence Committee, telling the panel that in her job, she had occasionally been required to tell white lies but had never lied about anything connected to the investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election.

She did not say what her next job would be, and it was unclear what the departure date is, although it is likely to be in the next few weeks. Ms. Hicks said she had "no words" to express her gratitude to the president, who responded with his own statement.
Politicians telling lies. Whatever next?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2018, 10:04:38 AM
Now that ms Hicks has resigned Trump is officially #Hopeless
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 01, 2018, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: stew on February 28, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
Soi a teacher decides it might be fun to barricade himself in a classroom and fire a single shout out the window! Hopefully that will put an end to arming teachers, that has to be one of the most fucked up idea's in American history!

By one of the most fucked up heads of state ever! Clown, are they that dumb over there that they will vote him back in for a second term?


If the alternative is the hated Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi or some other career left wing sc**bag then yes, he will be elected for another term, if the deomcrats see sense and have a decent centre left candidate running probably not.

You are very angry, chill kid, Donny isnt all that bad is he????
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 11:03:52 AM
Quote from: stew on March 01, 2018, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: stew on February 28, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
Soi a teacher decides it might be fun to barricade himself in a classroom and fire a single shout out the window! Hopefully that will put an end to arming teachers, that has to be one of the most fucked up idea's in American history!

By one of the most fucked up heads of state ever! Clown, are they that dumb over there that they will vote him back in for a second term?


If the alternative is the hated Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi or some other career left wing sc**bag then yes, he will be elected for another term, if the deomcrats see sense and have a decent centre left candidate running probably not.

You are very angry, chill kid, Donny isnt all that bad is he????

To be fair he's comical in the extreme, so for that reason he's not bad, but a dangerous menace with his tweets, as the thick ones actually believe him, a bit like when big Ian was giving it large back in the day, ended up with many a daft twat following his bile and people died because of it..

I don't think he has America's best interests at heart, just his own ego to massage..

We've enough dicks here to be dealing with so, outside looking in, ya reap what you sow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2018, 11:40:12 AM
I agree MR. Trump is a narcissist.

@ddale8

The fact is that legislators are dealing with a president who is very opinionated and also does not know what he's talking about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 01, 2018, 11:50:04 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 01, 2018, 09:47:08 AM
Politicians telling lies. Whatever next?

She's not a politician
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 01, 2018, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 01, 2018, 11:50:04 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 01, 2018, 09:47:08 AM
Politicians telling lies. Whatever next?

She's not a politician
Ah, White House Communications director. That changes everything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 01, 2018, 01:29:04 PM
Former White House Communications director.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 01, 2018, 01:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 01, 2018, 01:29:04 PM
Former White House Communications director.
;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 01, 2018, 03:23:08 PM
Excommunicated director?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 01, 2018, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 11:03:52 AM
Quote from: stew on March 01, 2018, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: stew on February 28, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
Soi a teacher decides it might be fun to barricade himself in a classroom and fire a single shout out the window! Hopefully that will put an end to arming teachers, that has to be one of the most fucked up idea's in American history!

By one of the most fucked up heads of state ever! Clown, are they that dumb over there that they will vote him back in for a second term?


If the alternative is the hated Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi or some other career left wing sc**bag then yes, he will be elected for another term, if the deomcrats see sense and have a decent centre left candidate running probably not.

You are very angry, chill kid, Donny isnt all that bad is he????

To be fair he's comical in the extreme, so for that reason he's not bad, but a dangerous menace with his tweets, as the thick ones actually believe him, a bit like when big Ian was giving it large back in the day, ended up with many a daft twat following his bile and people died because of it..

I don't think he has America's best interests at heart, just his own ego to massage..

We've enough dicks here to be dealing with so, outside looking in, ya reap what you sow

He can be funny, also ridiculous and stupid at times.

He has absolutely got Americas best interest at heart, and his ego is massive to say the least.

Right now the left have no viable leaders to take them forward, thats going to hurt them down the road, three weeks ago they were falling all over Oprah ffs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on March 01, 2018, 03:47:38 PM
Quote from: stew on March 01, 2018, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 11:03:52 AM
Quote from: stew on March 01, 2018, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: stew on February 28, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
Soi a teacher decides it might be fun to barricade himself in a classroom and fire a single shout out the window! Hopefully that will put an end to arming teachers, that has to be one of the most fucked up idea's in American history!

By one of the most fucked up heads of state ever! Clown, are they that dumb over there that they will vote him back in for a second term?


If the alternative is the hated Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi or some other career left wing sc**bag then yes, he will be elected for another term, if the deomcrats see sense and have a decent centre left candidate running probably not.

You are very angry, chill kid, Donny isnt all that bad is he????

To be fair he's comical in the extreme, so for that reason he's not bad, but a dangerous menace with his tweets, as the thick ones actually believe him, a bit like when big Ian was giving it large back in the day, ended up with many a daft twat following his bile and people died because of it..

I don't think he has America's best interests at heart, just his own ego to massage..

We've enough dicks here to be dealing with so, outside looking in, ya reap what you sow

He can be funny, also ridiculous and stupid at times.

He has absolutely got Americas best interest at heart, and his ego is massive to say the least.

Right now the left have no viable leaders to take them forward, thats going to hurt them down the road, three weeks ago they were falling all over Oprah ffs!

I'd say that would depend on your social status all the same.

American billionaires and millionaires must think he's a great fella altogether.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 01, 2018, 06:33:48 PM
The mayor of Oakland went public on Sunday that ice were about to raid the area for what ice says was mostly illegal criminals and  by going public ice are saying up to 800 arrests were not made that could have been I'm not in favor of pulling people off the street but surely the mayor is doing the opposite of her duty here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2018, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on March 01, 2018, 03:23:08 PM
Excommunicated director?
She's now Trump's ex, alright, not that she could communicate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 01, 2018, 06:57:44 PM
Still waiting for your "independent" sources for the Swedish rape claim, Stew.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2018, 07:34:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 01, 2018, 06:57:44 PM
Still waiting for your "independent" sources for the Swedish rape claim, Stew.
It might have been this guy

https://youtu.be/ppLEscB5EU0,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 01, 2018, 10:55:46 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 01, 2018, 03:47:38 PM
Quote from: stew on March 01, 2018, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 11:03:52 AM
Quote from: stew on March 01, 2018, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: stew on February 28, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
Soi a teacher decides it might be fun to barricade himself in a classroom and fire a single shout out the window! Hopefully that will put an end to arming teachers, that has to be one of the most fucked up idea's in American history!

By one of the most fucked up heads of state ever! Clown, are they that dumb over there that they will vote him back in for a second term?


If the alternative is the hated Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi or some other career left wing sc**bag then yes, he will be elected for another term, if the deomcrats see sense and have a decent centre left candidate running probably not.

You are very angry, chill kid, Donny isnt all that bad is he????

To be fair he's comical in the extreme, so for that reason he's not bad, but a dangerous menace with his tweets, as the thick ones actually believe him, a bit like when big Ian was giving it large back in the day, ended up with many a daft twat following his bile and people died because of it..

I don't think he has America's best interests at heart, just his own ego to massage..

We've enough dicks here to be dealing with so, outside looking in, ya reap what you sow

He can be funny, also ridiculous and stupid at times.

He has absolutely got Americas best interest at heart, and his ego is massive to say the least.

Right now the left have no viable leaders to take them forward, thats going to hurt them down the road, three weeks ago they were falling all over Oprah ffs!

I'd say that would depend on your social status all the same.

American billionaires and millionaires must think he's a great fella altogether.

I was neither but I was doing alright and my friends over there say they are very happy with what he is at domestically from a economic perspective.


This is your blind spot, in giving the man credit for nothing due to your hatred of him you fail to grasp what the American people think, many of them are delighted with him so far, the problem with this site is that like so many people, they have these opinions on Trump and his America having spent little to no time in the place, yet dont take the time to talk to people that actually live under his presidency.

I am not a fan by any stretch but I do give him credit for some things and he has one thing going for him, he is not Hillary so I wake up happy everyday. )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: rrhf on March 01, 2018, 11:18:13 PM
Last 2 lines make ye sound like a dup man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 01, 2018, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: rrhf on March 01, 2018, 11:18:13 PM
Last 2 lines make ye sound like a dup man.

Sure it does!

I have as much time for those hoors as I do Clinton, dont tar me with the same brush as them durtboards, and by the way, I have a dissenting opinion on here, just because I am way in the minority does not mean I am wrong.

Politica in the USA has nothing whatsoever to do with politics in the wee six!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 02, 2018, 05:01:07 AM
Stew
You may not be completely right about politics in USA and Norn Iron.
The tail of evangelicals is wagging the dog of the body politic in both places.
Stay warm and safe in that winter wonderland that is embracing youse all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 02, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 05:01:07 AM
Stew
You may not be completely right about politics in USA and Norn Iron.
The tail of evangelicals is wagging the dog of the body politic in both places.
Stay warm and safe in that winter wonderland that is embracing youse all.

Nobody is ever completely right when it comes to politics Omochain.

There is no comparison between the DUP and the Republicans Stateside, one wants to move the USA forward through economic growth and the other, wants to dig ever deeper, the trench that divides them from the Catholic/Nationalist people in the six counties.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnneycool on March 02, 2018, 10:59:24 AM
Quote from: stew on March 01, 2018, 10:55:46 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 01, 2018, 03:47:38 PM
Quote from: stew on March 01, 2018, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 11:03:52 AM
Quote from: stew on March 01, 2018, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: stew on February 28, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
Soi a teacher decides it might be fun to barricade himself in a classroom and fire a single shout out the window! Hopefully that will put an end to arming teachers, that has to be one of the most fucked up idea's in American history!

By one of the most fucked up heads of state ever! Clown, are they that dumb over there that they will vote him back in for a second term?


If the alternative is the hated Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi or some other career left wing sc**bag then yes, he will be elected for another term, if the deomcrats see sense and have a decent centre left candidate running probably not.

You are very angry, chill kid, Donny isnt all that bad is he????

To be fair he's comical in the extreme, so for that reason he's not bad, but a dangerous menace with his tweets, as the thick ones actually believe him, a bit like when big Ian was giving it large back in the day, ended up with many a daft twat following his bile and people died because of it..

I don't think he has America's best interests at heart, just his own ego to massage..

We've enough dicks here to be dealing with so, outside looking in, ya reap what you sow

He can be funny, also ridiculous and stupid at times.

He has absolutely got Americas best interest at heart, and his ego is massive to say the least.

Right now the left have no viable leaders to take them forward, thats going to hurt them down the road, three weeks ago they were falling all over Oprah ffs!

I'd say that would depend on your social status all the same.

American billionaires and millionaires must think he's a great fella altogether.

I was neither but I was doing alright and my friends over there say they are very happy with what he is at domestically from a economic perspective.


This is your blind spot, in giving the man credit for nothing due to your hatred of him you fail to grasp what the American people think, many of them are delighted with him so far, the problem with this site is that like so many people, they have these opinions on Trump and his America having spent little to no time in the place, yet dont take the time to talk to people that actually live under his presidency.

I am not a fan by any stretch but I do give him credit for some things and he has one thing going for him, he is not Hillary so I wake up happy everyday. )

Maybe I'm being blinded by this leftist media but what economic policies has he introduced and what has been their impact on the ordinary working American?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2018, 11:13:57 AM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 05:01:07 AM
Stew
You may not be completely right about politics in USA and Norn Iron.
The tail of evangelicals is wagging the dog of the body politic in both places.
Stay warm and safe in that winter wonderland that is embracing youse all.

Nobody is ever completely right when it comes to politics Omochain.

There is no comparison between the DUP and the Republicans Stateside, one wants to move the USA forward through economic growth and the other, wants to dig ever deeper, the trench that divides them from the Catholic/Nationalist people in the six counties.
The DUP are more rational than the GOP.
And anyone who thinks the GOP care about ordinary people is for the birds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 02, 2018, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2018, 11:13:57 AM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 05:01:07 AM
Stew
You may not be completely right about politics in USA and Norn Iron.
The tail of evangelicals is wagging the dog of the body politic in both places.
Stay warm and safe in that winter wonderland that is embracing youse all.

Nobody is ever completely right when it comes to politics Omochain.

There is no comparison between the DUP and the Republicans Stateside, one wants to move the USA forward through economic growth and the other, wants to dig ever deeper, the trench that divides them from the Catholic/Nationalist people in the six counties.
The DUP are more rational than the GOP.
And anyone who thinks the GOP care about ordinary people is for the birds.

The GOP do care about the people, I know plenty in the GOP, they are the people ffs!

The GOP are rational, just not to you are like minded people, to me the democrats are effed in the head, it depends were you are coming from I believe.

As for the DUP, a gaggle of neanderthal bitter scumbags, thats all they are!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 02, 2018, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 05:01:07 AM
Stew
You may not be completely right about politics in USA and Norn Iron.
The tail of evangelicals is wagging the dog of the body politic in both places.
Stay warm and safe in that winter wonderland that is embracing youse all.

Nobody is ever completely right when it comes to politics Omochain.

There is no comparison between the DUP and the Republicans Stateside, one wants to move the USA forward through economic growth and the other, wants to dig ever deeper, the trench that divides them from the Catholic/Nationalist people in the six counties.

Not so sure about the GOP moving the economy forward through Economic Growth. They say that and pursue trickle down policies that do not achieve that goal. They are more interested in staying in office and rewarding the donors who keep them funded.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 02, 2018, 07:21:35 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 05:01:07 AM
Stew
You may not be completely right about politics in USA and Norn Iron.
The tail of evangelicals is wagging the dog of the body politic in both places.
Stay warm and safe in that winter wonderland that is embracing youse all.

Nobody is ever completely right when it comes to politics Omochain.

There is no comparison between the DUP and the Republicans Stateside, one wants to move the USA forward through economic growth and the other, wants to dig ever deeper, the trench that divides them from the Catholic/Nationalist people in the six counties.

Not so sure about the GOP moving the economy forward through Economic Growth. They say that and pursue trickle down policies that do not achieve that goal. They are more interested in staying in office and rewarding the donors who keep them funded.

8 boom years of Clinton came after 12 years of trickle down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 02, 2018, 08:28:46 PM
Not sure if you are for me or agin me  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 03, 2018, 10:50:43 AM
To be written off as another conspiracy theory?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/1/more-cover-up-questions/


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 03, 2018, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 02, 2018, 07:21:35 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 05:01:07 AM
Stew
You may not be completely right about politics in USA and Norn Iron.
The tail of evangelicals is wagging the dog of the body politic in both places.
Stay warm and safe in that winter wonderland that is embracing youse all.

Nobody is ever completely right when it comes to politics Omochain.

There is no comparison between the DUP and the Republicans Stateside, one wants to move the USA forward through economic growth and the other, wants to dig ever deeper, the trench that divides them from the Catholic/Nationalist people in the six counties.

Not so sure about the GOP moving the economy forward through Economic Growth. They say that and pursue trickle down policies that do not achieve that goal. They are more interested in staying in office and rewarding the donors who keep them funded.

8 boom years of Clinton came after 12 years of trickle down

So the current low employment and boom years at the minute are due to Obama then?!!

Good to know!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 03, 2018, 05:23:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 03, 2018, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 02, 2018, 07:21:35 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 02, 2018, 05:01:07 AM
Stew
You may not be completely right about politics in USA and Norn Iron.
The tail of evangelicals is wagging the dog of the body politic in both places.
Stay warm and safe in that winter wonderland that is embracing youse all.

Nobody is ever completely right when it comes to politics Omochain.

There is no comparison between the DUP and the Republicans Stateside, one wants to move the USA forward through economic growth and the other, wants to dig ever deeper, the trench that divides them from the Catholic/Nationalist people in the six counties.

Not so sure about the GOP moving the economy forward through Economic Growth. They say that and pursue trickle down policies that do not achieve that goal. They are more interested in staying in office and rewarding the donors who keep them funded.

8 boom years of Clinton came after 12 years of trickle down

So the current low employment and boom years at the minute are due to Obama then?!!

Good to know!!

Growth is due to Obama, but optimism and reinvestment by corporations is down to Trump.

Economy in a presidents first term is usually down to the last term of the prior president
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 04, 2018, 02:08:03 AM
New story that a UAE advisor has also been meddling in the white house on middle eastern policy. 4 nations that US security is aware of identifies Jarrod as a weak link due to naivete and money problems.

At this point the best thing that could come out of this investigation is that the money trail in DC becomes transparent.

Should be a matter of public record if you seek public office for 5 years before and for 5 years after.

I think it is at this point clear that there was significant interference in due process. I don't know if there is a statistical way to calculate the impact. I also don't know how much the Dumpster campaign was aware of the situation of the money or influence.

I also believe the DNC is its own worst enemy and is not the subject of this investigation by dumb luck (i.e. clinton had no love for Putin) or they would have been in the same boat...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 04, 2018, 03:30:18 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 04, 2018, 02:08:03 AM
New story that a UAE advisor has also been meddling in the white house on middle eastern policy. 4 nations that US security is aware of identifies Jarrod as a weak link due to naivete and money problems.

At this point the best thing that could come out of this investigation is that the money trail in DC becomes transparent.

Should be a matter of public record if you seek public office for 5 years before and for 5 years after.

I think it is at this point clear that there was significant interference in due process. I don't know if there is a statistical way to calculate the impact. I also don't know how much the Dumpster campaign was aware of the situation of the money or influence.

I also believe the DNC is its own worst enemy and is not the subject of this investigation by dumb luck (i.e. clinton had no love for Putin) or they would have been in the same boat...

Sounds like Kelly's going to clear house

Seems like he was intentionally misled/not informed about Porter.....hes started swinging the axe since that debacle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2018, 08:23:12 AM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/amp/trump-was-angry-unglued-when-he-started-trade-war-officials-n852641

With global markets shaken by President Donald Trump's surprise decision to impose strict tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, the president went into battle mode on Friday: "Trade wars are good, and easy to win," he wrote on Twitter.

But the public show of confidence belies the fact that Trump's policy maneuver, which may ultimately harm U.S. companies and American consumers, was announced without any internal review by government lawyers or his own staff, according to a review of an internal White House document.

According to two officials, Trump's decision to launch a potential trade war was born out of anger at other simmering issues and the result of a broken internal process that has failed to deliver him consensus views that represent the best advice of his team.

On Wednesday evening, the president became "unglued," in the words of one official familiar with the president's state of mind.

A trifecta of events had set him off in a way that two officials said they had not seen before: Hope Hicks' testimony to lawmakers investigating Russia's interference in the 2016 election, conduct by his embattled attorney general and the treatment of his son-in-law by his chief of staff.

Trump, the two officials said, was angry and gunning for a fight, and he chose a trade war, spurred on by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross and Peter Navarro, the White House director for trade — and against longstanding advice from his economic chair Gary Cohn and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.

There were no prepared, approved remarks for the president to give at the planned meeting, there was no diplomatic strategy for how to alert foreign trade partners, there was no legislative strategy in place for informing Congress and no agreed upon communications plan beyond an email cobbled together by Ross's team at the Commerce Department late Wednesday that had not been approved by the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 04, 2018, 10:11:56 AM
I hope they have a better procedure for nuclear weapons deployment than just letting the lunatic do what he wants because he's angry.

It's terrifying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2018, 11:23:39 AM
Quote from: Hardy on March 04, 2018, 10:11:56 AM
I hope they have a better procedure for nuclear weapons deployment than just letting the lunatic do what he wants because he's angry.

It's terrifying.
[/quote
He has the emotional maturity of a dysfunctional 3 year old.
And nobody will contradict him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 06, 2018, 11:13:35 PM
Gary Cohn resigning

Markets will be fun tomorrow. The saner voices are leaving that administration. Trade wars = easy win according to footspurs.

All wars are trade wars
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 07, 2018, 04:25:04 AM
And Stormy Daniels is suing the Trump.

He is denying all, citing Boner spurs.

(Thanks Andy borowitz)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2018, 07:31:20 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 07, 2018, 04:25:04 AM
And Stormy Daniels is suing the Trump.

He is denying all, citing Boner spurs.

(Thanks Andy borowitz)

Stormy Daniels' complaint http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_Creative/Filed%20Complaint.pdf)

Trump must be a PILF.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on March 09, 2018, 08:37:17 AM
Two great minds are set to meet;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43339901 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43339901)

Kim Jong-un and Donnie are due to meet in May, wonder who will insult who first?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2018, 08:51:28 PM
The man behind this video

https://youtu.be/dmeBMvGhf1g

where the kids walk in on the interview is a Korea expert. And he has been thinking about Trump

Robert E Kelly

@Robert_E_Kelly

On the Trump-Kim Summit: Summits normally come at the end of a long series of negotiations at lower levels in which lots of devils in the details r hammered out. Trump, always the publicity-seeker, is just diving right in, which is why the Korea analyst community is responding /1


so hesitantly to the May summit news. So sure talks are good, and were this any other POTUS in the last 3 decades, I'd be thrilled. But consider that B Clinton wanted to visit North Korea only after 5 years of negotiating the Agreed Framework, & George W. Bush never seriously /2

considered a summit despite years of effort in the Six Party Talks. But now, less than a year after the 'armada,' fire and fury,' & 'totally destroy NK,' Trump is suddenly going to have a break-through summit? Wait, what? Just like that? Maybe. But that 'art of the deal' stuff /3


has mostly been vacuous fluff, and we know Trump doesn't study or even read. He also tends to fly wildly off-script (will he make some unpredictable, off-the-wall concession to NK?). And May means there's almost no time for all the staff prep necessary. Nor has public or elite /4


opinion in S Korea and the US been consulted. And the ideological and strategic differences between the US & NK remain basically as wide as ever; NK has not, despite all the upbeat atmospherics this year, actually made or even suggested any real concessions yet. Test freezes, /5




not pulling provocations on the border, family reunions, or reopening the Kaesong industrial park are not concessions. These are costless to the North, easily taken away or reversed, or profitable to it. The acid test is if the North will actually give up something real, /6




something they really value, like movement on human rights or nuclear safety. Of course denuclearization is the ultimate concession, but it is highly unlikely Pyongyang will just suddenly do that in the next few months after 40 years trying to develop these weapons. It is far /7




more likely that there would be a series of concessions and counter-concessions building trust and credibility over time (likely years) eventually rising to a serious discussion of denuclearization. Yet somehow Trump is going to get around all this? Even though we know about /8

Trump's chaotic management style, erratic, moody personality, and chronic staffing problems, especially regarding East Asia. I just don't see it, We can always hope, but it is just as reasonable to fear that Trump, the reality TV star who somehow stumbled into the presidency /9


for which he is woefully unfit, will wander from decades of joint US-South Korea policy, about which he naturally knows nothing, and make some kind of deal for a 'win' that no other US official would endorse. Obviously I hope I am wrong, but nothing in Trump's management of /10

his campaign or White House says he is focused or knowledgeable enough for something this high stakes. And that's not ideology talking. I am a registered Republican and worked once for a GOP congressman. It's just from watching 3 years of Trump's shambolic incompetence. END


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 12:59:02 PM
Rex Tillerson ousted as Secretary of State a few hours after he speaks out on Russia - being replaced by Mike Pompeo - who was head of the CIA. Pompeo is replaced by Gina Haspel.

Funny how you can call the President a moron and nothing happens - but when you criticize Russia  ::)



Oh - and in a massive shock - Devin Nunes and the HIC announce they are ending their probe into the Russian collusion investigation - saying that there was no collusion between Trumps campaign and Russia  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 01:09:21 PM
why does everyone keep leaving their job at the WH?

QuoteWASHINGTON—President Donald Trump's personal assistant, John McEntee, was escorted out of the White House on Monday, two senior administration officials said. The cause of the firing was an unspecified security issue, said a third White House official with knowledge of the situation.

White House press secretary Sarah Sanders declined to comment saying, "We don't comment on personnel issues." Mr. McEntee didn't return a call seeking comment.

Mr. McEntee was one of the longest-serving aides to Mr. Trump, dating back to the earliest days of the campaign when some of the only aides around the then-candidate included Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser; Stephen Miller, the president's policy director; White House communications director Hope Hicks, who announced her resignation two weeks ago; and Dan Scavino, who is the White House director of social media.

Mr. McEntee wasn't as well known as the others, but had been a constant presence at Mr. Trump's side for the past three years. He made sure Mr. Trump had markers to sign autographs, delivered messages to him in the White House residence and, over the weekend, ensured that the clocks in the White House residence were adjusted for daylight-saving time.

"It's not going to be great for morale," one White House official said about Mr. McEntee's departure.

Mr. McEntee was removed from the White House grounds on Monday afternoon without being allowed to collect his belongings, a White House official said. He left without his jacket, a second White House official said.

It wasn't clear exactly why Mr. McEntee was fired on Monday. He indicated to colleagues that it was an issue in his background.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 13, 2018, 02:01:22 PM
Putin must be exhausted running two countries.

Luckily for him, he gets paid very, very, very well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 13, 2018, 02:01:22 PM
Putin must be exhausted running two countries.

Luckily for him, he gets paid very, very, very well.

It's a shit show . . . do you see how much Europe relies on natural gas from Russia??!!

There's only one Commander in Chief now and it certainly isn't "The Donald"!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 05:30:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 13, 2018, 02:01:22 PM
Putin must be exhausted running two countries.

Luckily for him, he gets paid very, very, very well.

It's a shit show . . . do you see how much Europe relies on natural gas from Russia??!!

There's only one Commander in Chief now and it certainly isn't "The Donald"!
I think it's highly likely that you're wrong and I'm giving you until the end of the day to provide a credible response.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2018, 06:51:34 PM
Hyperbole aside, do you not find it rather curious that Trump, he of the itchiest twitter finger on the planet and recklessly cavalier when it comes to naming and shaming and blaming, continually bends over backwards not to find fault with Putin and the Russians?

The Brits, including their Prime Minister, the US Secretary of State, the US British ambassador and all the rest are hardly party to information impugning the Russians that Trump doesn't have. And hours later, Tillerson is out on his arse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2018, 06:51:34 PM
Hyperbole aside, do you not find it rather curious that Trump, he of the itchiest twitter finger on the planet and recklessly cavalier when it comes to naming and shaming and blaming, continually bends over backwards not to find fault with Putin and the Russians?

The Brits, including their Prime Minister, the US Secretary of State, the US British ambassador and all the rest are hardly party to information impugning the Russians that Trump doesn't have. And hours later, Tillerson is out on his arse.
I do find it curious when I think of it. I'm just not as sure of the reasons as others.

Would you put any weight behind the Seth Rich story or just dismiss it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 07:06:42 PM
JFC - we're back to Seth Rich
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 05:30:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 13, 2018, 02:01:22 PM
Putin must be exhausted running two countries.

Luckily for him, he gets paid very, very, very well.

It's a shit show . . . do you see how much Europe relies on natural gas from Russia??!!

There's only one Commander in Chief now and it certainly isn't "The Donald"!
I think it's highly likely that you're wrong and I'm giving you until the end of the day to provide a credible response.

Get yourself familiar with Bill Browder . . . and stop talking about f**king Seth Rich!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2018, 07:16:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2018, 06:51:34 PM
Hyperbole aside, do you not find it rather curious that Trump, he of the itchiest twitter finger on the planet and recklessly cavalier when it comes to naming and shaming and blaming, continually bends over backwards not to find fault with Putin and the Russians?

The Brits, including their Prime Minister, the US Secretary of State, the US British ambassador and all the rest are hardly party to information impugning the Russians that Trump doesn't have. And hours later, Tillerson is out on his arse.
I do find it curious when I think of it. I'm just not as sure of the reasons as others.

Would you put any weight behind the Seth Rich story or just dismiss it?

I've seen no reason to put any weight behind (or much thought at all about) it since Fox News issued their mea culpa retraction last year following Hannity's campaign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2018, 07:44:51 PM
David Rothkop

@djrothkopf


The core story on Tillerson--he criticizes Moscow for an attack on the UK and is fired within 24 hours

@BillKristol


I guess you could say Trump chose Putin over Tillerson




@NormOrnstein

Could it be that this is aimed at minimizing what happens in Pennsylvania 18? Nah, more likely it is directly tied to Tillerson aiming right at Putin. Trump cannot tolerate criticism of the man who has the goods on him



@ezraklein

[Meeting in the WH comms office] "What should today's message be?" "How about the House's 'no collusion'?" "No, let's do Trump touring the border." "Wait, I know. Let's step on both of those by firing Tillerson amidst all our other staff chaos!" "Genius."


@brianefallon

This story has been hiding in plain sight for almost two years. Now Washington Post has found a source to confirm it.

Washington Post

@washingtonpost

Roger Stone claimed contact with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in 2016, according to two associates (link: http://wapo.st/2Gn8Jar) wapo.st/2Gn8Jar


@PhilipRucker

Remarkable statement from Tillerson spokesman: Sec State wanted to stay in his job, was "unaware of the reason" for his firing and has not spoken to Trump about it.

 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/13/rex-tillerson-fired-hapless-hopeless-tragic

"I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful secretary of state, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man," his wonderful boss tweeted in October. "Being nice to Rocket Man hasn't worked in 25 years, why would it work now? Clinton failed, Bush failed, and Obama failed. I won't fail."
In year one, he agreed to an astonishing 31% cut to his own budget, followed by a 29% cut the following year. The proposed budgets would have decimated his own staff and operations, as well as international aid, and were mostly ignored by Congress last year.



Tillerson didn't much mind the cuts. In fact he rationalized them by saying he wouldn't need so much money because he was well on his way to solving the world's problems.

"Part of this bringing the budget numbers back down is reflective of an expectation that we're going to have success in some of these conflict areas, getting these conflicts resolved and moving to a different place in terms of the kind of support we have to give," he told a foreign policy crowd late last year.

the state department, where the exodus of experience and talent has been a diplomatic blowout. He refused briefings from senior staff and refused to talk to the press. He hollowed out the senior ranks with no rhyme or reason, leaving critical posts unfilled, while others simply quit or retired.

 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/13/rex-tillerson-fired-latest-news-donald-trump

Margaret Huang, executive director of Amnesty International USA, said: "Both Pompeo and Haspel have deeply alarming records when it comes to human rights. Before they assume positions that could have repercussions for human rights around the world, they should be given utmost scrutiny by the Senate in the confirmation process."

 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/13/the-guardian-view-on-trump-and-tillerson-hes-fired-what-next
Mr Tillerson's extraordinary sacking on Tuesday reflected the administration's broader dishonesty, chaos and conflict.

Mr Pompeo is unquestionably a hardliner: combative, hawkish and ideological. His views on climate change make the former ExxonMobil chief he replaces look like an environmental champion.

Mr Tillerson did not do a good or even adequate job, though it is hard to see how anyone serving this president could.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 08:50:02 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 07:06:42 PM
JFC - we're back to Seth Rich
Are we? I just asked a question.
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 05:30:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 13, 2018, 02:01:22 PM
Putin must be exhausted running two countries.

Luckily for him, he gets paid very, very, very well.

It's a shit show . . . do you see how much Europe relies on natural gas from Russia??!!

There's only one Commander in Chief now and it certainly isn't "The Donald"!
I think it's highly likely that you're wrong and I'm giving you until the end of the day to provide a credible response.

Get yourself familiar with Bill Browder . . . and stop talking about f**king Seth Rich!!!
As above, simple question.
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2018, 07:16:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2018, 06:51:34 PM
Hyperbole aside, do you not find it rather curious that Trump, he of the itchiest twitter finger on the planet and recklessly cavalier when it comes to naming and shaming and blaming, continually bends over backwards not to find fault with Putin and the Russians?

The Brits, including their Prime Minister, the US Secretary of State, the US British ambassador and all the rest are hardly party to information impugning the Russians that Trump doesn't have. And hours later, Tillerson is out on his arse.
I do find it curious when I think of it. I'm just not as sure of the reasons as others.

Would you put any weight behind the Seth Rich story or just dismiss it?

I've seen no reason to put any weight behind (or much thought at all about) it since Fox News issued their mea culpa retraction last year following Hannity's campaign.
Thanks for being polite. I'm following Matt Couch's campaign on it. Are you saying that because Fox News retracted their story that it's automatically not a story? No need for the other two to reply. I know you're above me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2018, 09:15:45 PM
No, I'm saying I haven't given it any more thought. I've plenty to be thinking about without wasting time on what, so far, appeared to be another trumped up piece of right wing propaganda. But based on Hannity and Fox's actions, I'd imagine it's going to take seriously credible information to put it on the front page.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2018, 09:15:45 PM
No, I'm saying I haven't given it any more thought. I've plenty to be thinking about without wasting time on what, so far, appeared to be another trumped up piece of right wing propaganda. But based on Hannity and Fox's actions, I'd imagine it's going to take seriously credible information to put it on the front page.
Fair enough. It's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible. But because it's mainstream it's seems fair game.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 09:43:04 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 08:50:02 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 07:06:42 PM
JFC - we're back to Seth Rich
Are we? I just asked a question.
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 05:30:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 13, 2018, 02:01:22 PM
Putin must be exhausted running two countries.

Luckily for him, he gets paid very, very, very well.

It's a shit show . . . do you see how much Europe relies on natural gas from Russia??!!

There's only one Commander in Chief now and it certainly isn't "The Donald"!
I think it's highly likely that you're wrong and I'm giving you until the end of the day to provide a credible response.

Get yourself familiar with Bill Browder . . . and stop talking about f**king Seth Rich!!!
As above, simple question.
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2018, 07:16:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2018, 06:51:34 PM
Hyperbole aside, do you not find it rather curious that Trump, he of the itchiest twitter finger on the planet and recklessly cavalier when it comes to naming and shaming and blaming, continually bends over backwards not to find fault with Putin and the Russians?

The Brits, including their Prime Minister, the US Secretary of State, the US British ambassador and all the rest are hardly party to information impugning the Russians that Trump doesn't have. And hours later, Tillerson is out on his arse.
I do find it curious when I think of it. I'm just not as sure of the reasons as others.

Would you put any weight behind the Seth Rich story or just dismiss it?

I've seen no reason to put any weight behind (or much thought at all about) it since Fox News issued their mea culpa retraction last year following Hannity's campaign.
Thanks for being polite. I'm following Matt Couch's campaign on it. Are you saying that because Fox News retracted their story that it's automatically not a story? No need for the other two to reply. I know you're above me.

You don't think Putin is in charge? He's interfered with an election in the world's biggest country. Trump seems scared to say anything negative about Russia at all. He's murdered someone in the UK with nerve gas.

Russia control the majority of the natural gas piped around Europe.

What part of Putin's in charge do you not understand? Is there anything I've said that is wrong?!

As I've said read some Bill Browder articles and listen to some of his interviews to understand a bit about how things work in Russia!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
The stories about "alleged state doping" aren't credible? Now I know you are on the f**king windup Comrade Esmarelda
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:31:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 09:43:04 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 08:50:02 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 07:06:42 PM
JFC - we're back to Seth Rich
Are we? I just asked a question.
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 05:30:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2018, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 13, 2018, 02:01:22 PM
Putin must be exhausted running two countries.

Luckily for him, he gets paid very, very, very well.

It's a shit show . . . do you see how much Europe relies on natural gas from Russia??!!

There's only one Commander in Chief now and it certainly isn't "The Donald"!
I think it's highly likely that you're wrong and I'm giving you until the end of the day to provide a credible response.

Get yourself familiar with Bill Browder . . . and stop talking about f**king Seth Rich!!!
As above, simple question.
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2018, 07:16:50 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2018, 06:51:34 PM
Hyperbole aside, do you not find it rather curious that Trump, he of the itchiest twitter finger on the planet and recklessly cavalier when it comes to naming and shaming and blaming, continually bends over backwards not to find fault with Putin and the Russians?

The Brits, including their Prime Minister, the US Secretary of State, the US British ambassador and all the rest are hardly party to information impugning the Russians that Trump doesn't have. And hours later, Tillerson is out on his arse.
I do find it curious when I think of it. I'm just not as sure of the reasons as others.

Would you put any weight behind the Seth Rich story or just dismiss it?

I've seen no reason to put any weight behind (or much thought at all about) it since Fox News issued their mea culpa retraction last year following Hannity's campaign.
Thanks for being polite. I'm following Matt Couch's campaign on it. Are you saying that because Fox News retracted their story that it's automatically not a story? No need for the other two to reply. I know you're above me.

You don't think Putin is in charge? He's interfered with an election in the world's biggest country. Trump seems scared to say anything negative about Russia at all. He's murdered someone in the UK with nerve gas.

Russia control the majority of the natural gas piped around Europe.

What part of Putin's in charge do you not understand? Is there anything I've said that is wrong?!

As I've said read some Bill Browder articles and listen to some of his interviews to understand a bit about how things work in Russia!!
This is what I'm talking about. The bits in bold are not fact. You may claim they are and think they are, but they're not, at least not yet.

I'll look up Bill Browder though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:33:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
The stories about "alleged state doping" aren't credible? Now I know you are on the f**king windup Comrade Esmarelda
One thing you can rest assured of is that I'm not on the wind-up.

Enlighten me on the state-doping story. What have I missed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 10:35:18 PM
Quote"We should have a new force called the Space Force. It's like the Army and the Navy, but for space, because we're spending a lot of money on space."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 14, 2018, 05:37:28 AM
Looking like Conor Lamb is going to win in Pennsylvania. Blue wave is building. GOP don't know whether to embrace Trump or shun him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 08:09:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 14, 2018, 05:37:28 AM
Looking like Conor Lamb is going to win in Pennsylvania. Blue wave is building. GOP don't know whether to embrace Trump or shun him.
The GOP would have won that special election if it didn't have an asshole as President
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 09:19:14 AM
At 2.05 Saccone says anti Trump means anti God
 https://youtu.be/eF2PjmWPlmQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 14, 2018, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:33:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
The stories about "alleged state doping" aren't credible? Now I know you are on the f**king windup Comrade Esmarelda
One thing you can rest assured of is that I'm not on the wind-up.

Enlighten me on the state-doping story. What have I missed?

Watch Icarus on Netflix . . . it is widely known in every circle now that Russia conducted a State Sponsored doping programme for many years. Read the McLaren report, read up on Dick Pound and check out a few of his interviews.

Also on the USA election interference I'm not saying there was collusion with any of the campaigns (we will wait until Mueller finally reports on his investigation) but you cannot deny the army of Russian bots spewing out propaganda and misinformation throughout the campaign in favour of our orange friend!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 14, 2018, 11:58:59 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 14, 2018, 05:37:28 AM
Looking like Conor Lamb is going to win in Pennsylvania. Blue wave is building. GOP don't know whether to embrace Trump or shun him.

2 observations

Dems actually ran a candidate who had local appeal and differs from the National DNC platform on numerous issues

Third party candidate cost the Republican in the same way Jill Stein cost Hillary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 12:11:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2018, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:33:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
The stories about "alleged state doping" aren't credible? Now I know you are on the f**king windup Comrade Esmarelda
One thing you can rest assured of is that I'm not on the wind-up.

Enlighten me on the state-doping story. What have I missed?

Watch Icarus on Netflix . . . it is widely known in every circle now that Russia conducted a State Sponsored doping programme for many years. Read the McLaren report, read up on Dick Pound and check out a few of his interviews.

Also on the USA election interference I'm not saying there was collusion with any of the campaigns (we will wait until Mueller finally reports on his investigation) but you cannot deny the army of Russian bots spewing out propaganda and misinformation throughout the campaign in favour of our orange friend!!
I haven't denied anything and yes, it would appear that a group of Russians sent out ads and posts on social media. Here's just a few I came across:

"[A] particular hype and hatred for Trump is misleading the people and forcing Blacks to vote Killary. We cannot resort to the lesser of two devils. Then we'd surely be better off without voting AT ALL." and "Hillary is a Satan, and her crimes and lies had proved just how evil she is"

The relevance of this is what though? Is this what everyone was waiting for? Is this any worse than what Trump said during the campaign. Maybe there's more to it than this?

I haven't read the McLaren report itself, but I have read a bit online about it. McLaren is quoted as saying "We don't have any evidence of a systematic, state-wide doping mechanism. If we did, we would have published it and so we have to go on the inference. But across a vast country [with] all sorts of different training camps, it has to be somehow state supported but we can't actually describe for you how that operates. We can only draw the inference."

The report seems to be based almost entirely on the word of Grigory Rodchenkov. The report refers to extensive documentation, none of which has been made public. Rodchenkov seems to have been in the middle of the scandal but is deemed trustworthy. McLaren "did not seek to interview persons living in the Russian Federation .... I did not seek to meet with Russian government officials and did not think it necessary..."

I'm only saying what I've read. I'm not saying anything is or isn't true. I'm saying that there is at least some doubt surrounding these issues but I'll take a look at Icarus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 14, 2018, 11:58:59 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 14, 2018, 05:37:28 AM
Looking like Conor Lamb is going to win in Pennsylvania. Blue wave is building. GOP don't know whether to embrace Trump or shun him.

2 observations

Dems actually ran a candidate who had local appeal and differs from the National DNC platform on numerous issues

Third party candidate cost the Republican in the same way Jill Stein cost Hillary
The GOP shouldn't be anywhere needing that excuse though
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 14, 2018, 02:07:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2018, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:33:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
The stories about "alleged state doping" aren't credible? Now I know you are on the f**king windup Comrade Esmarelda
One thing you can rest assured of is that I'm not on the wind-up.

Enlighten me on the state-doping story. What have I missed?

Watch Icarus on Netflix . . . it is widely known in every circle now that Russia conducted a State Sponsored doping programme for many years. Read the McLaren report, read up on Dick Pound and check out a few of his interviews.

Also on the USA election interference I'm not saying there was collusion with any of the campaigns (we will wait until Mueller finally reports on his investigation) but you cannot deny the army of Russian bots spewing out propaganda and misinformation throughout the campaign in favour of our orange friend!!

Don't know why you are bothering with that lad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on March 14, 2018, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.

That's all probably true, but be under no illusions that the CIA and MI5 are up to similar tricks but the western media aren't reporting it.

The CIA were poisoning water supplies in latin America back in the 70's and 80's FFS

Have a look;

https://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope/ (https://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.
In your last couple of posts you've done quite a bit of alleging and presuming. If you're happy with what you've learned and where you've learned it then presume away. I prefer to hear different views on it and people's reasons for them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 02:50:39 PM
McCain slams Trump's CIA pick: She was involved in "one of darkest chapters in American history" (link: http://hill.cm/ZxDFPHx) hill.cm/ZxDFPHx
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 02:53:09 PM
Russia is a mess. So is the US but for different reasons.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/12/russias-clash-with-the-west-is-about-geography-not-ideology
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 03:02:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2018, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.

That's all probably true, but be under no illusions that the CIA and MI5 are up to similar tricks but the western media aren't reporting it.

The CIA were poisoning water supplies in latin America back in the 70's and 80's FFS

Have a look;

https://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope/ (https://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope/)

If you're looking for somebody to defend the CIA, MI5, and US and British foreign policy, you should look elsewhere.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on March 14, 2018, 03:05:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 03:02:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2018, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.

That's all probably true, but be under no illusions that the CIA and MI5 are up to similar tricks but the western media aren't reporting it.

The CIA were poisoning water supplies in latin America back in the 70's and 80's FFS

Have a look;

https://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope/ (https://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope/)

If you're looking for somebody to defend the CIA, MI5, and US and British foreign policy, you should look elsewhere.

I'm not and neither am I defending Russia.

Just stating the obvious as high level politics as someone called it on the radio this morning is a very dirty business.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 03:07:34 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/14/pennsylvania-special-election-too-close-to-call-saccone-lamb-trump

Some voters cast their ballot based on Trump. Outside a polling place in Bethel Park, Pennsylvania, Joe Morgan told the Guardian: "I approve of the way the president is trying to put the country in a better spot and I think voting Republican will help him do that."

In contrast, another voter, Paul Kane, told the Guardian he voted for Lamb because "Trump's an asshole".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.
In your last couple of posts you've done quite a bit of alleging and presuming. If you're happy with what you've learned and where you've learned it then presume away. I prefer to hear different views on it and people's reasons for them.

What sort of "views" lead you to believe what you appear to believe about Russia and Putin?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.
In your last couple of posts you've done quite a bit of alleging and presuming. If you're happy with what you've learned and where you've learned it then presume away. I prefer to hear different views on it and people's reasons for them.

What sort of "views" lead you to believe what you appear to believe about Russia and Putin?
I didn't say I believed anything. It seems a lot of posters think that only firm views should be held on some issues and such view should be challenged aggressively. No place for open discussion, despite it being a discussion board. Check out Gabriel Hurl's past couple of contributions for example.

I'm interested in how US/Russian relations are and how they're played out in the media, both here and elsewhere, and I like to discuss them.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 04:07:51 PM


Cue huge protests

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-i-will-invite-donald-trump-to-visit-ireland-36705148.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 14, 2018, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 04:07:51 PM


Cue huge protests

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-i-will-invite-donald-trump-to-visit-ireland-36705148.html

Invite him but let everybody be washing their hair that day.  Don't give a narcacist the attrntion he craves.  Or everybody take a knee.

He will count the people who protest as his audience.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 06:42:27 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 14, 2018, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 04:07:51 PM


Cue huge protests

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-i-will-invite-donald-trump-to-visit-ireland-36705148.html

Invite him but let everybody be washing their hair that day.  Don't give a narcacist the attrntion he craves.  Or everybody take a knee.

He will count the people who protest as his audience.
He hasn't appointed an Irish ambassador
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 14, 2018, 07:25:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2018, 09:19:14 AM
At 2.05 Saccone says anti Trump means anti God
https://youtu.be/eF2PjmWPlmQ

And unpatriotic!!!!.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 14, 2018, 10:43:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 10:35:18 PM
Quote"We should have a new force called the Space Force. It's like the Army and the Navy, but for space, because we're spending a lot of money on space."
u know that was a piss take right
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 11:12:26 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.
In your last couple of posts you've done quite a bit of alleging and presuming. If you're happy with what you've learned and where you've learned it then presume away. I prefer to hear different views on it and people's reasons for them.

What sort of "views" lead you to believe what you appear to believe about Russia and Putin?
I didn't say I believed anything. It seems a lot of posters think that only firm views should be held on some issues and such view should be challenged aggressively. No place for open discussion, despite it being a discussion board. Check out Gabriel Hurl's past couple of contributions for example.

I'm interested in how US/Russian relations are and how they're played out in the media, both here and elsewhere, and I like to discuss them.
That's not a very informative response.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 01:15:59 AM
Actually, Russia has been accused of tampering.  From allegedly hacking into the DNC, to allegedly hacking into computerized ballot counting in several states.

The DNC thing was the initial basis for the Muller probe.

Putinbots abound, but that's just propaganda.  If that's the sole basis for the allegations of interfering in elections, that's pretty weak stuff. All of the states that would be regarded as major powers do this in their own way. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 15, 2018, 03:56:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 14, 2018, 10:43:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 10:35:18 PM
Quote"We should have a new force called the Space Force. It's like the Army and the Navy, but for space, because we're spending a lot of money on space."
u know that was a piss take right

What? Your posts? Yes - I know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
It would probably be a Roscommon bot slandering Enda.
Psy ops work, WhiTey.  It's the basis of the ad industry.
The US has 2 media systems and after 30 years of big fed alternative reality red US was ripe for some Russian messing.

I think the most interesting part will be the backlash against the GOP when voters figure out Trump is a fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 15, 2018, 09:36:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 11:12:26 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.
In your last couple of posts you've done quite a bit of alleging and presuming. If you're happy with what you've learned and where you've learned it then presume away. I prefer to hear different views on it and people's reasons for them.

What sort of "views" lead you to believe what you appear to believe about Russia and Putin?
I didn't say I believed anything. It seems a lot of posters think that only firm views should be held on some issues and such view should be challenged aggressively. No place for open discussion, despite it being a discussion board. Check out Gabriel Hurl's past couple of contributions for example.

I'm interested in how US/Russian relations are and how they're played out in the media, both here and elsewhere, and I like to discuss them.
That's not a very informative response.
Well I could make dramatic statements like "plainly guilty" and "all over politics" that make it sound like I know what I'm talking about but my post was merely meant to inform you of my opinion.

I think Jell O and Whitey have covered it quite well in their past couple of posts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 10:10:30 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 15, 2018, 09:36:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 11:12:26 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 14, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 13, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
QuoteIt's just that I find a lot of what's said about Russia in the mainstream media isn't credible.

Such as?
How the conflict in Syria is reported, how the Ukraine situation was reported, the alleged state doping, the investigation into the shooting down of MH17, the Sergei Skripal case and basically any time Nikki Haley has a camera in front of her.
Presumably the entirety of the western media has it all wrong about Syria and we should believe "independent" journalists like Eva Bartlett and Vanessa Beeley, who aren't slavish propagandists for Assad and Russia, or anything like that.

Presumably Russia was justified in invading a sovereign country and justified in attempting to poison Yuschenko, or didn't do it at all.

Presumably the Russians didn't shoot down MH17.

Presumably the Russians didn't poison Sergei Skripal or Litvinenko or haven't done all sorts of horrible shit against individuals living outside Russia, and presumably they don't lock up or murder anybody who puts their head above the parapet inside Russia.

Presumably Putin being a very, very, very rich man due to corruption on an industrial scale is all lies.

Putin is just a friendly Russian teddy bear.

Or something.
In your last couple of posts you've done quite a bit of alleging and presuming. If you're happy with what you've learned and where you've learned it then presume away. I prefer to hear different views on it and people's reasons for them.

What sort of "views" lead you to believe what you appear to believe about Russia and Putin?
I didn't say I believed anything. It seems a lot of posters think that only firm views should be held on some issues and such view should be challenged aggressively. No place for open discussion, despite it being a discussion board. Check out Gabriel Hurl's past couple of contributions for example.

I'm interested in how US/Russian relations are and how they're played out in the media, both here and elsewhere, and I like to discuss them.
That's not a very informative response.
Well I could make dramatic statements like "plainly guilty" and "all over politics" that make it sound like I know what I'm talking about but my post was merely meant to inform you of my opinion.

I think Jell O and Whitey have covered it quite well in their past couple of posts.

You're the only one who has posted the words "all over politics", which on their own don't even mean anything.

You didn't give an opinion.

Russia interfered in the US election. That is a fact, not opinion. So yes indeed, they are plainly guilty of it.

Russia has a strategy of trying to undermine western liberal democracy and its institutions through mass internet-driven propaganda, fake news and cultivating politicians like Trump, Farage and Le Pen. That is a fact.

It might be easier to get a few more facts from inside Russia itself if the regime allowed a genuine free press and genuine political opposition. It doesn't, because Putin has decided it should be an authoritarian state run for his benefit.

The reaction of the Russian government and its supporters on the internet to any accusations that Russia's behaviour might be less than honest, reminds me of the reactions of athletes denying they dope.

You'd have to have a very touching gullibility like Jimmy Magee did as regards Michelle Smith to believe a word the Russians say.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 15, 2018, 10:23:09 AM
I do apologise Sid, I misread what you typed. Cheerfully withdrawn.

So what if I didn't give an opinion? I said I was interested in these issues. I read from western media and non-western media. I'm not stupid enough to think that either are telling the whole truth. So if I admit that I can't possibly know the truth, how can I have an opinion? Would you like me to guess?

You say it's a fact that "Russia interfered in the US election". Who are Russia? The Kremlin or group of lads in St. Petersburg? What does interfere mean? How many facebook ads does it take to constitute interfering? If I meet ten US citizens and tell them that Hilary is the devil, am I interfering?

And then more "facts" with the vaguest of terms. People try to influence other people if it benefits themselves. It's hardly news. And it's beyond hilarious to hear the U.S. crying about it. I mean irony just doesn't cover it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2018, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
It would probably be a Roscommon bot slandering Enda.
Psy ops work, WhiTey.  It's the basis of the ad industry.
The US has 2 media systems and after 30 years of big fed alternative reality red US was ripe for some Russian messing.

I think the most interesting part will be the backlash against the GOP when voters figure out Trump is a fraud.

It all depends on who the Democrats put up as a candidate......as is evidenced by the recent special election in PA they seem to be learning their lesson.

Fringe issues appeal to fringe voters and might sit well in San Francisco or the wealhy suburbs of Boston, but wont win you a presidential election in the swing states.

Jobs, healthcare, taxes and the economy the the deciding issues for most voters I know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
It would probably be a Roscommon bot slandering Enda.
Psy ops work, WhiTey.  It's the basis of the ad industry.
The US has 2 media systems and after 30 years of big fed alternative reality red US was ripe for some Russian messing.

I think the most interesting part will be the backlash against the GOP when voters figure out Trump is a fraud.

It all depends on who the Democrats put up as a candidate......as is evidenced by the recent special election in PA they seem to be learning their lesson.

Fringe issues appeal to fringe voters and might sit well in San Francisco or the wealhy suburbs of Boston, but wont win you a presidential election in the swing states.

Jobs, healthcare, taxes and the economy the the deciding issues for most voters I know
Trump is doing very little for jobs and even less for healthcare. He is rewarding the donors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 03:25:19 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 15, 2018, 10:23:09 AM
I do apologise Sid, I misread what you typed. Cheerfully withdrawn.

So what if I didn't give an opinion? I said I was interested in these issues. I read from western media and non-western media. I'm not stupid enough to think that either are telling the whole truth. So if I admit that I can't possibly know the truth, how can I have an opinion? Would you like me to guess?

You say it's a fact that "Russia interfered in the US election". Who are Russia? The Kremlin or group of lads in St. Petersburg? What does interfere mean? How many facebook ads does it take to constitute interfering? If I meet ten US citizens and tell them that Hilary is the devil, am I interfering?

And then more "facts" with the vaguest of terms. People try to influence other people if it benefits themselves. It's hardly news. And it's beyond hilarious to hear the U.S. crying about it. I mean irony just doesn't cover it.

"Russia" means people acting on behalf of and with the support of the Russian government.

Russia has organised troll farms where people get paid to write propaganda and spread fake news. They use massive numbers of bots to publish automated propaganda. Significant amounts of Russian government money are allocated to funding this. That is not opinion, that is fact.

You say that "it is beyond hilarious to hear the US crying about it". That is called whataboutery.

But currently, the US government and the ruling party there are crying very little about it, and we can all take a pretty educated guess as to why that is.

You should take your whataboutery to somebody who supports or has supported US foreign policy interventions since World War II or their propaganda efforts to orchestrate regime changes in other countries, because I pretty much always don't.

By using whataboutery, which is always the standard response of those who seek to defend Russia, and by downplaying Russian interference and internet-driven mass propaganda, you actually legitimise what the US has done in that regard since World War II. I'm not sure you've quite thought that angle through.









Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 15, 2018, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 03:25:19 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 15, 2018, 10:23:09 AM
I do apologise Sid, I misread what you typed. Cheerfully withdrawn.

So what if I didn't give an opinion? I said I was interested in these issues. I read from western media and non-western media. I'm not stupid enough to think that either are telling the whole truth. So if I admit that I can't possibly know the truth, how can I have an opinion? Would you like me to guess?

You say it's a fact that "Russia interfered in the US election". Who are Russia? The Kremlin or group of lads in St. Petersburg? What does interfere mean? How many facebook ads does it take to constitute interfering? If I meet ten US citizens and tell them that Hilary is the devil, am I interfering?

And then more "facts" with the vaguest of terms. People try to influence other people if it benefits themselves. It's hardly news. And it's beyond hilarious to hear the U.S. crying about it. I mean irony just doesn't cover it.

"Russia" means people acting on behalf of and with the support of the Russian government.

Russia has organised troll farms where people get paid to write propaganda and spread fake news. They use massive numbers of bots to publish automated propaganda. Significant amounts of Russian government money are allocated to funding this. That is not opinion, that is fact.

You say that "it is beyond hilarious to hear the US crying about it". That is called whataboutery.

But currently, the US government and the ruling party there are crying very little about it, and we can all take a pretty educated guess as to why that is.

You should take your whataboutery to somebody who supports or has supported US foreign policy interventions since World War II or their propaganda efforts to orchestrate regime changes in other countries, because I pretty much always don't.

By using whataboutery, which is always the standard response of those who seek to defend Russia, and by downplaying Russian interference and internet-driven mass propaganda, you actually legitimise what the US has done in that regard since World War II. I'm not sure you've quite thought that angle through.
Again with the word "fact". Repeatedly saying it doesn't make it any more of a fact. How do you know it's a fact? Any of your facts?

And poor old whataboutery gets a blackening. I mentioned that in passing as it is hilarious to hear the US crying about such "facts" but forget I said it as it is indeed irrelevant to this conversation. I guess that means that it's not "always the standard response" anymore, although I wasn't actually defending Russia......but anyway.

Next, my downplaying of the level of Russian interference that we've seen, and presumably the other stuff that you know about, legitimises the US doing something similar? On that basis can we downplay anything anyone does or what level does it need to be reported before we can dismiss it,downplay it or doubt it?

I sort of see where you're going with some of your opinions but I also see that you've made up your mind on a lot of things with little reason given, at least as far as I know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 04:54:26 PM
This is very interesting. The tax cuts are dogshit for the GOP


.https://youtu.be/MKLaqtraOBk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2018, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
It would probably be a Roscommon bot slandering Enda.
Psy ops work, WhiTey.  It's the basis of the ad industry.
The US has 2 media systems and after 30 years of big fed alternative reality red US was ripe for some Russian messing.

I think the most interesting part will be the backlash against the GOP when voters figure out Trump is a fraud.

It all depends on who the Democrats put up as a candidate......as is evidenced by the recent special election in PA they seem to be learning their lesson.

Fringe issues appeal to fringe voters and might sit well in San Francisco or the wealhy suburbs of Boston, but wont win you a presidential election in the swing states.

Jobs, healthcare, taxes and the economy the the deciding issues for most voters I know
Trump is doing very little for jobs and even less for healthcare. He is rewarding the donors.

Tell that to my self employed clients who were paying $35K a year for healthcare under Obamacare. (Up from about $20K)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 05:43:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
It would probably be a Roscommon bot slandering Enda.
Psy ops work, WhiTey.  It's the basis of the ad industry.
The US has 2 media systems and after 30 years of big fed alternative reality red US was ripe for some Russian messing.

I think the most interesting part will be the backlash against the GOP when voters figure out Trump is a fraud.

It all depends on who the Democrats put up as a candidate......as is evidenced by the recent special election in PA they seem to be learning their lesson.

Fringe issues appeal to fringe voters and might sit well in San Francisco or the wealhy suburbs of Boston, but wont win you a presidential election in the swing states.

Jobs, healthcare, taxes and the economy the the deciding issues for most voters I know
Trump is doing very little for jobs and even less for healthcare. He is rewarding the donors.

Tell that to my self employed clients who were paying $35K a year for healthcare under Obamacare. (Up from about $20K)
The plural of anecdote is not data
13m people will lose healthcare.
The system sucks and needs to be rebooted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 06:27:03 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 15, 2018, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 03:25:19 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on March 15, 2018, 10:23:09 AM
I do apologise Sid, I misread what you typed. Cheerfully withdrawn.

So what if I didn't give an opinion? I said I was interested in these issues. I read from western media and non-western media. I'm not stupid enough to think that either are telling the whole truth. So if I admit that I can't possibly know the truth, how can I have an opinion? Would you like me to guess?

You say it's a fact that "Russia interfered in the US election". Who are Russia? The Kremlin or group of lads in St. Petersburg? What does interfere mean? How many facebook ads does it take to constitute interfering? If I meet ten US citizens and tell them that Hilary is the devil, am I interfering?

And then more "facts" with the vaguest of terms. People try to influence other people if it benefits themselves. It's hardly news. And it's beyond hilarious to hear the U.S. crying about it. I mean irony just doesn't cover it.

"Russia" means people acting on behalf of and with the support of the Russian government.

Russia has organised troll farms where people get paid to write propaganda and spread fake news. They use massive numbers of bots to publish automated propaganda. Significant amounts of Russian government money are allocated to funding this. That is not opinion, that is fact.

You say that "it is beyond hilarious to hear the US crying about it". That is called whataboutery.

But currently, the US government and the ruling party there are crying very little about it, and we can all take a pretty educated guess as to why that is.

You should take your whataboutery to somebody who supports or has supported US foreign policy interventions since World War II or their propaganda efforts to orchestrate regime changes in other countries, because I pretty much always don't.

By using whataboutery, which is always the standard response of those who seek to defend Russia, and by downplaying Russian interference and internet-driven mass propaganda, you actually legitimise what the US has done in that regard since World War II. I'm not sure you've quite thought that angle through.
Again with the word "fact". Repeatedly saying it doesn't make it any more of a fact. How do you know it's a fact? Any of your facts?

And poor old whataboutery gets a blackening. I mentioned that in passing as it is hilarious to hear the US crying about such "facts" but forget I said it as it is indeed irrelevant to this conversation. I guess that means that it's not "always the standard response" anymore, although I wasn't actually defending Russia......but anyway.

Next, my downplaying of the level of Russian interference that we've seen, and presumably the other stuff that you know about, legitimises the US doing something similar? On that basis can we downplay anything anyone does or what level does it need to be reported before we can dismiss it,downplay it or doubt it?

I sort of see where you're going with some of your opinions but I also see that you've made up your mind on a lot of things with little reason given, at least as far as I know.
If you think Russia interfering in the US and other elections and using internet driven mass propaganda and fake news for its own ends is not a fact, there's little point in continuing the conversation, because you're refusing to accept reality.

Whataboutery was mentioned because that's what you engaged in, and what every defence of Russia I've read since the Salisbury attack has resorted to.

I make up my mind based on facts and on reason.

I don't make up my mind that "ah, Russia are grand, sure they're standing up to the big bad west", or something like that, which many people blindly do.

Russia is a rotten, corrupt state run by a rotten, corrupt, murdering, totalitarian thug who is out to undermine western liberal democracy, the sort of liberal democracy, that for all its faults, and there are many, is infinitely superior to the system Russia has, and which I value extremely highly, thank you.

The rest of the world should be extremely wary of Putin and Russia.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 15, 2018, 06:44:53 PM
Sid, one thing I agree with you on, but for different reasons to yours, is that there's no point in us continuing our conversation. You're repeating yourself and for me to reply would mean I would have to do the same. So I think we'll leave it there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 15, 2018, 06:50:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 05:43:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
It would probably be a Roscommon bot slandering Enda.
Psy ops work, WhiTey.  It's the basis of the ad industry.
The US has 2 media systems and after 30 years of big fed alternative reality red US was ripe for some Russian messing.

I think the most interesting part will be the backlash against the GOP when voters figure out Trump is a fraud.

It all depends on who the Democrats put up as a candidate......as is evidenced by the recent special election in PA they seem to be learning their lesson.

Fringe issues appeal to fringe voters and might sit well in San Francisco or the wealhy suburbs of Boston, but wont win you a presidential election in the swing states.

Jobs, healthcare, taxes and the economy the the deciding issues for most voters I know
Trump is doing very little for jobs and even less for healthcare. He is rewarding the donors.

Tell that to my self employed clients who were paying $35K a year for healthcare under Obamacare. (Up from about $20K)
The plural of anecdote is not data
13m people will lose healthcare.
The system sucks and needs to be rebooted.
the bottom line with healthcare in the USA is its a huge business that is probably one of the biggest lobbyist groups out there and most Amercians don't want to pay more taxes to pay for other people's healthcare when their own plans are costing them a fortune ,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 07:45:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 15, 2018, 06:50:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 05:43:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
It would probably be a Roscommon bot slandering Enda.
Psy ops work, WhiTey.  It's the basis of the ad industry.
The US has 2 media systems and after 30 years of big fed alternative reality red US was ripe for some Russian messing.

I think the most interesting part will be the backlash against the GOP when voters figure out Trump is a fraud.

It all depends on who the Democrats put up as a candidate......as is evidenced by the recent special election in PA they seem to be learning their lesson.

Fringe issues appeal to fringe voters and might sit well in San Francisco or the wealhy suburbs of Boston, but wont win you a presidential election in the swing states.

Jobs, healthcare, taxes and the economy the the deciding issues for most voters I know
Trump is doing very little for jobs and even less for healthcare. He is rewarding the donors.

Tell that to my self employed clients who were paying $35K a year for healthcare under Obamacare. (Up from about $20K)
The plural of anecdote is not data
13m people will lose healthcare.
The system sucks and needs to be rebooted.
the bottom line with healthcare in the USA is its a huge business that is probably one of the biggest lobbyist groups out there and most Amercians don't want to pay more taxes to pay for other people's healthcare when their own plans are costing them a fortune ,
Healthcare is one fifth of the US economy. It is not sustainable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2018, 09:12:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 05:43:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
It would probably be a Roscommon bot slandering Enda.
Psy ops work, WhiTey.  It's the basis of the ad industry.
The US has 2 media systems and after 30 years of big fed alternative reality red US was ripe for some Russian messing.

I think the most interesting part will be the backlash against the GOP when voters figure out Trump is a fraud.

It all depends on who the Democrats put up as a candidate......as is evidenced by the recent special election in PA they seem to be learning their lesson.

Fringe issues appeal to fringe voters and might sit well in San Francisco or the wealhy suburbs of Boston, but wont win you a presidential election in the swing states.

Jobs, healthcare, taxes and the economy the the deciding issues for most voters I know
Trump is doing very little for jobs and even less for healthcare. He is rewarding the donors.

Tell that to my self employed clients who were paying $35K a year for healthcare under Obamacare. (Up from about $20K)
The plural of anecdote is not data
13m people will lose healthcare.
The system sucks and needs to be rebooted.

Gainfully employed people who already had healthcare before Obamacare and who are already paying the bulk of all taxes are the ones who got fvcked.

It sucks that people don't (or didn't) have healthcare but why should they have to take on the burden

I used to live in CT and many of these guys/gals are also paying $7-10k in property tax and $1k in excise tax on each of their cars.

Call it an anecdote if you want, but it's real
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 09:59:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 09:12:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 05:43:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2018, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 15, 2018, 12:01:29 AM
Seemed fine to me.  Just because he wants to see evidence  of election tampering (beyond a few fake facebook profiles) doesn't mean he believes Putin is a saint who would never do anything untoward. 

The main evidence for tampering seems to be from statements made by US secret services who have not exactly got a track record that would make one believe x on the basis of their statement that x.
Russia has not been accused of "tampering" in the US election. The Republicans have enough people who are intent on denying the vote to ethnic minorities and others likely to vote Democrat, as well as systematically gerrymandering congressional districts to their advantage, not to need any help in that regard.

What they are plainly guilty of is in interfering in not just the US election, but other elections in the West as well as the Brexit referendum by way of mass internet-driven propaganda and "fake news".

Russian troll accounts are even populating Irish internet forums - they're all over politics.ie, for instance.

And of course they are cultivating far-right politicians all over Europe and in the US, most obviously, and with astounding success, Trump.

They have a clear divide and conquer strategy as regards the West and are attempting to undermine liberal democracy at every turn. It's currently working very well.

Anybody who cannot see this has a serious set of blinkers on.

So for arguments sake lets say youre an FG supporter and a you see a FB post or tweet posted by an Russian bot saying Enda Kenny is a cvnt.....would you switch your vote to FF based on those posts? 

Would you stay at home and not vote at all, because you are now disheartened by all the negativity?

Wheteher we like it or not, voters have been forced to sift through spin, waffle and misinformation for about 20 years....much of it emenating from the lame stream media. These Russian are just a continuation of a challenge that was already facing voters.....who and what do I believe?

To date I dont know if anyone has been able to prove that one single solitary voter had their mind changed by a tweet or a facebook post they saw
It would probably be a Roscommon bot slandering Enda.
Psy ops work, WhiTey.  It's the basis of the ad industry.
The US has 2 media systems and after 30 years of big fed alternative reality red US was ripe for some Russian messing.

I think the most interesting part will be the backlash against the GOP when voters figure out Trump is a fraud.

It all depends on who the Democrats put up as a candidate......as is evidenced by the recent special election in PA they seem to be learning their lesson.

Fringe issues appeal to fringe voters and might sit well in San Francisco or the wealhy suburbs of Boston, but wont win you a presidential election in the swing states.

Jobs, healthcare, taxes and the economy the the deciding issues for most voters I know
Trump is doing very little for jobs and even less for healthcare. He is rewarding the donors.

Tell that to my self employed clients who were paying $35K a year for healthcare under Obamacare. (Up from about $20K)
The plural of anecdote is not data
13m people will lose healthcare.
The system sucks and needs to be rebooted.

Gainfully employed people who already had healthcare before Obamacare and who are already paying the bulk of all taxes are the ones who got fvcked.

It sucks that people don't (or didn't) have healthcare but why should they have to take on the burden

I used to live in CT and many of these guys/gals are also paying $7-10k in property tax and $1k in excise tax on each of their cars.

Call it an anecdote if you want, but it's real
healthcare costs are rising faster than wages
13m people losing healthcare is bad for the economy.
Trump won't address this. It is a system problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2018, 03:40:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 09:12:22 PM

I used to live in CT and many of these guys/gals are also paying $7-10k in property tax and $1k in excise tax on each of their cars.

Call it an anecdote if you want, but it's real
It's an anecdote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2018, 05:17:17 AM
This is a great line

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/15/trump-presidency-unravelling-administration-enemies

The venality is so baroque, the vulgarity so ostentatious, the inconsistencies so stark, the incompetence so epic and the lies so brazen, it leaves you speechless. His vanity is without guile and the scandals that embroil him without end. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Asal Mor on March 16, 2018, 08:55:10 AM
One could say we're in  no position to be mocking the leader of another country given the one we've elected spends a fortune on PR,  then brags about corruption in the most casual way imaginable in a speech that's being televised internationally. The phrase "incompetence so epic" could be used to describe Leo's various ministerial roles too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on March 16, 2018, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2018, 03:40:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 09:12:22 PM

I used to live in CT and many of these guys/gals are also paying $7-10k in property tax and $1k in excise tax on each of their cars.

Call it an anecdote if you want, but it's real
It's an anecdote.

Its an anecdote complaining about people having to pay tax on their second third or whatever car, when the debate surrounding healthcare is about people dying in the streets as they dont have health insurance. Never the twain shall meet methinks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 16, 2018, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 16, 2018, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2018, 03:40:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 09:12:22 PM

I used to live in CT and many of these guys/gals are also paying $7-10k in property tax and $1k in excise tax on each of their cars.

Call it an anecdote if you want, but it's real
It's an anecdote.

Its an anecdote complaining about people having to pay tax on their second third or whatever car, when the debate surrounding healthcare is about people dying in the streets as they dont have health insurance. Never the twain shall meet methinks.

Nice job cherry picking.......I just checked my old house in CT....which I sold for $290K in 2008......property tax is now $8300 per year.

My buddy currently has 4 kids in college so hes also forking out over $100K per year in tuition

He has 5 cars on the road....no public transport where he lives...2 of his girls commute to college and have modest vehicles.....I think hes all in for about $5K in auto excise tax

His healthcare premiums went for $20K to $35K, but youre right, hes just a selfish pr1ck for resenting close to a 50% increase in his healthcare premiums.

Call it an anecdote if you want, but this is the reality facing many people.....it's a big enough problem that even Bill Clinton addressed it during the campaign...."Obamacare, you know it's the craziest thing we people humping it 60 you s a week.....their premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 16, 2018, 12:14:22 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 16, 2018, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2018, 03:40:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2018, 09:12:22 PM

I used to live in CT and many of these guys/gals are also paying $7-10k in property tax and $1k in excise tax on each of their cars.

Call it an anecdote if you want, but it's real
It's an anecdote.

Its an anecdote complaining about people having to pay tax on their second third or whatever car, when the debate surrounding healthcare is about people dying in the streets as they dont have health insurance. Never the twain shall meet methinks.
dying in the streets where?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2018, 07:19:37 AM
David Corn

@DavidCornDC

I told you all *before* the election that Trump was completely obsessed with revenge: (link: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-obsessed-with-revenge/) motherjones.com/politics/2016/...

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Andrew McCabe FIRED, a great day for the hard working men and women of the FBI - A great day for Democracy. Sanctimonious James Comey was his boss and made McCabe look like a choirboy. He knew all about the lies and corruption going on a

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2018, 02:47:35 AM
SNAFU

John McCain

@SenJohnMcCain

Special Counsel Mueller has served our country with honesty and integrity. It's critical he be allowed to complete a thorough investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election — unimpeded.

David Frum

@davidfrum


Once you realize that "deep state" is code for "the rule of law," you can translate their jibberish into something more like English

John Harwood

@JohnJHarwood

Roger Stone on Trump today: "I see replay of Watergate where Deep State trying to take down President they couldn't beat at ballot box"

Bill Kristol

@BillKristol

To Republicans who have carefully kept your powder dry, who have studiously maintained access to Trump and credibility with Trump supporters: You're not being asked to do much. Just step up and say, "Mr. President: Respect the rule of law.

The Hill

@thehill

JUST IN: Graham calls for the Senate Judiciary Committee to hold a hearing on McCabe's firing (link: http://hill.cm/qv2hv7N)

Laurence Tribe

@tribelaw

It's Congress that needs to rein in this unhinged autocrat, but Congress has been essentially useless. The Framers anticipated a renegade president but not a totally dysfunctional Congress.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 19, 2018, 02:38:51 PM
There is more to this firing than meets the eye.

Dont be surprised if major dirty laundry has been uncovered on McCabe and others involved in the Hillary investigation.

The Office of the Inspector General which rolls up under the DOJ and it was their investigation that led to the firing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2018, 03:09:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2018, 02:38:51 PM
There is more to this firing than meets the eye.

Dont be surprised if major dirty laundry has been uncovered on McCabe and others involved in the Hillary investigation.

The Office of the Inspector General which rolls up under the DOJ and it was their investigation that led to the firing
It looks more like Trump was testing the water to see how the GOP would react if Mueller was sacked
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 19, 2018, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2018, 03:09:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2018, 02:38:51 PM
There is more to this firing than meets the eye.

Dont be surprised if major dirty laundry has been uncovered on McCabe and others involved in the Hillary investigation.

The Office of the Inspector General which rolls up under the DOJ and it was their investigation that led to the firing
It looks more like Trump was testing the water to see how the GOP would react if Mueller was sacked

Maybe....Trumps an idiot, but hes not stupid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2018, 10:02:57 AM
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/03/what-hope-hicks-learned-in-washington.html

Many requests were mundane. "He doesn't write anything down," one source close to the White House told me. "He doesn't type, he dictates. 'Take this down, take this down: Trump: richest man on Earth.' " A second source who meets regularly with the president told me that Hicks acted almost as an embodiment of the faculties the Trump lacked — like memory. "He'll be talking, and then right in the middle he'll be like, 'Hope, what was that ... thing?' " When the name of a senator or congressman or journalist came up, Trump would prompt Hicks to provide a history of their interactions, asking, "Do we like him?" "And she f**king remembers!" (Trump has said his own memory is "one of the greatest memories of all time.") "She's the only person he trusts," the second source continued. "He doesn't trust any men and never has. He doesn't like men, you see. He has no male friends. I was just with one of them the other day, someone who's described as one of his closest friends, and he doesn't know him very well. But a small number of women, including his longtime assistant back in New York, he really listens to them — especially if he's not banging them. Because, like a lot of men but more so, Trump really does compartmentalize the sex and the emotional part."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Minder on March 22, 2018, 12:59:18 PM
Just saw this tweet from The Donald, Christ.......

@realDonaldTrump

Crazy Joe Biden is trying to act like a tough guy. Actually, he is weak, both mentally and physically, and yet he threatens me, for the second time, with physical assault. He doesn't know me, but he would go down fast and hard, crying all the way. Don't threaten people Joe!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 22, 2018, 03:31:35 PM
Nothing to see folks  ::)

Quote​​​​​​​WASHINGTON — The president's lead lawyer for the special counsel investigation, John Dowd, resigned on Thursday, according to two people briefed on the matter, days after the president called for an end to the inquiry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2018, 04:15:23 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/john-oliver-marlon-bundo-book-explains-gop-trump-support/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Dougherty


Its come to this.....pretty pathetic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2018, 04:46:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2018, 04:15:23 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/john-oliver-marlon-bundo-book-explains-gop-trump-support/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Dougherty


Its come to this.....pretty pathetic
It is so easy to take the piss out of evangelicals
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2018, 04:55:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 22, 2018, 04:46:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2018, 04:15:23 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/john-oliver-marlon-bundo-book-explains-gop-trump-support/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Dougherty


Its come to this.....pretty pathetic
It is so easy to take the piss out of evangelicals

Partisan Lackeys giving 1 star Amazon reviews on a book raising money for kids with cancer invites a certain type of Karma
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2018, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2018, 04:55:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 22, 2018, 04:46:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2018, 04:15:23 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/john-oliver-marlon-bundo-book-explains-gop-trump-support/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Dougherty


Its come to this.....pretty pathetic
It is so easy to take the piss out of evangelicals

Partisan Lackeys giving 1 star Amazon reviews on a book raising money for kids with cancer invites a certain type of Karma
Both books raise money for charity and both have troll reviews. The US is polarised.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2018, 05:11:12 PM
https://amp.thedailybeast.com/only-ryan-and-mcconnell-can-pen-in-tyrannosaurus-trump


Donald Trump isn't subtle. He isn't strategic. He needs to be told in vivid, sharp, clear words, "If you do this, you're going to be impeached, dragged hard, humiliated, investigated, have your taxes made public, pictures of your junk on poster boards as we discuss porn star payoffs on the Senate floor." He needs to hear it loud and clear; "We know you've already wrecked our chances of holding the majority, but we're not letting you drag the country down with us."

For over a year, I have warned members of House and the Senate that Trump's erratic behavior, shitbird affect, Putin-philia, moronic economic beliefs, hair-trigger temper, evident political disloyalty, and grunting, reckless dick-swinging bravado would rebound on them, and hard. The things Trump does please a narrow base repel everyone else. Trump voters are loyal to Trump, not to the GOP and certainly not to its members. Other Republicans take all the damage and reap none of the benefits.

In race after race, we've seen the future, and for Republicans, it's dark. I've warned Republicans before he is driving an electoral and demographic wedge in American politics we can't easily overcome, and imposing on the party a suite of problems no amount of money or Democratic Party campaign incompetence will solve.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 22, 2018, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2018, 04:15:23 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/john-oliver-marlon-bundo-book-explains-gop-trump-support/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Dougherty


Its come to this.....pretty pathetic

Thought it was pretty funny myself . . . if Mike Pence is able to talk to God surely he wouldn't have let John Oliver do this??!!!!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlCdDS6xaCnm0oM/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2018, 05:16:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 22, 2018, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2018, 04:55:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 22, 2018, 04:46:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2018, 04:15:23 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/john-oliver-marlon-bundo-book-explains-gop-trump-support/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Dougherty


Its come to this.....pretty pathetic
It is so easy to take the piss out of evangelicals

Partisan Lackeys giving 1 star Amazon reviews on a book raising money for kids with cancer invites a certain type of Karma
Both books raise money for charity and both have troll reviews. The US is polarised.

Oliver picked a fight that was completely unnecessary....everything is now politicized by both sides
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 22, 2018, 05:39:32 PM
Good deflection whitey - you seemoutraged by this John Oliver thing - Charlotte Pence isn't  ::)


Quote"I mean, I think you know, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery in a way," Charlotte said. "But also, in all seriousness, his book is contributing to charities that I think we can all get behind. We have two books giving to charities that are about bunnies so I'm all for it really."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2018, 05:46:44 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 22, 2018, 05:39:32 PM
Good deflection whitey - you seemoutraged by this John Oliver thing - Charlotte Pence isn't  ::)


Quote"I mean, I think you know, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery in a way," Charlotte said. "But also, in all seriousness, his book is contributing to charities that I think we can all get behind. We have two books giving to charities that are about bunnies so I'm all for it really."

Everything is now about identity politics. You can't write a fvckin book to raise money for kids with cancer without someone trying make it about something else. And the Republicans and their toadies are just as bad.


She handled it very well....my cousin lost a 6 year old to brain cancer so I am maybe a little more sensitive about it. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 22, 2018, 11:45:43 PM
Trump has replaced H.R. McMaster with John Bolton as National Security Advisor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 23, 2018, 01:33:40 AM
A man who wrote this 3 weeks ago

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-legal-case-for-striking-north-korea-first-1519862374
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 23, 2018, 03:02:58 AM
 Rand Paul might have something to say about Bolton, given how pleased he has been with him in the past...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2018, 08:18:10 AM
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/03/facebook-will-never-be-the-same-after-the-cambridge-analytica-scandal/amp?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 23, 2018, 01:44:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 23, 2018, 01:33:40 AM
A man who wrote this 3 weeks ago

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-legal-case-for-striking-north-korea-first-1519862374

Be very afraid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2018, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: dec on March 22, 2018, 11:45:43 PM
Trump has replaced H.R. McMaster with John Bolton as National Security Advisor.
lou dobbs will be pumped
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 23, 2018, 04:32:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2018, 01:44:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 23, 2018, 01:33:40 AM
A man who wrote this 3 weeks ago

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-legal-case-for-striking-north-korea-first-1519862374

Be very afraid

We are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2018, 05:10:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 22, 2018, 11:45:43 PM
Trump has replaced H.R. McMaster with John Bolton as National Security Advisor.

And we still haven't figured out the full death toll from the Iraq war. If this clown gets his way then God help us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2018, 02:38:26 AM
I see the sc**bag has tried to implement his transgender military ban again .... at 930pm on a Friday night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 24, 2018, 08:49:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2018, 02:38:26 AM
I see the sc**bag has tried to implement his transgender military ban again .... at 930pm on a Friday night.


The Democrats have pulled that late night shite plenty of times too Gab, dont play that card ffs!

The man is a politician, what more would you expect? He is simply trying to do what he thinks is best for the American fighting men and women, no more no less.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2018, 09:00:43 PM
Quote from: stew on March 24, 2018, 08:49:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2018, 02:38:26 AM
I see the sc**bag has tried to implement his transgender military ban again .... at 930pm on a Friday night.


The Democrats have pulled that late night shite plenty of times too Gab, dont play that card ffs!

The man is a politician, what more would you expect? He is simply trying to do what he thinks is best for the American fighting men and women, no more no less.
He is not a politician
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 24, 2018, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2018, 02:38:26 AM
I see the sc**bag has tried to implement his transgender military ban again .... at 930pm on a Friday night.

The President is doing what he thinks is best for the morale of his fighting men and women, no more and no less.

I myself think only men or women should be allowed in the  American military, after all two genders was good enough for the world until Obama came into power, he has fucked the whole thing up.

Homosexuals should be allowed into the military and thats about it for me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on March 24, 2018, 09:04:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2018, 09:00:43 PM
Quote from: stew on March 24, 2018, 08:49:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2018, 02:38:26 AM
I see the sc**bag has tried to implement his transgender military ban again .... at 930pm on a Friday night.


The Democrats have pulled that late night shite plenty of times too Gab, dont play that card ffs!

The man is a politician, what more would you expect? He is simply trying to do what he thinks is best for the American fighting men and women, no more no less.
He is not a politician

He bloody well is, he has been in office as POTUS for over a year, he is a politician.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2018, 09:15:00 PM
Quote from: stew on March 24, 2018, 09:04:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2018, 09:00:43 PM
Quote from: stew on March 24, 2018, 08:49:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2018, 02:38:26 AM
I see the sc**bag has tried to implement his transgender military ban again .... at 930pm on a Friday night.


The Democrats have pulled that late night shite plenty of times too Gab, dont play that card ffs!

The man is a politician, what more would you expect? He is simply trying to do what he thinks is best for the American fighting men and women, no more no less.
He is not a politician

He bloody well is, he has been in office as POTUS for over a year, he is a politician.
He is a narcissist who can't concentrate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2018, 09:55:35 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2018, 02:38:26 AM
I see the sc**bag has tried to implement his transgender military ban again .... at 930pm on a Friday night.

Hmmm......don't think it will cost him one single solitary vote. That issue would matter to a very small percentage of the electorate imho.....and they're not the type of people who'd vote for him anyway
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 26, 2018, 01:24:33 AM
Don't think Stormy interview will cost him one vote either.

Question is who is there can get get the others to cast their vote?

Also can't see much there for Meuller. Fixer maybe in a spot of bother but not a lot.

A bust you could say. Only interesting if there is actually evidence...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2018, 02:00:45 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 26, 2018, 01:24:33 AM
Don't think Stormy interview will cost him one vote either.

Question is who is there can get get the others to cast their vote?

Also can't see much there for Meuller. Fixer maybe in a spot of bother but not a lot.

A bust you could say. Only interesting if there is actually evidence...

If the Democrats dont smarten up and start addressing real issues, he has a good chance of beating them in 2020.   

Sorry, but most people dont give 2 fvcks that Trump congratulated Putin, or that he banged a hot blonde 12 years ago , or that gender confused people cant serve in the military, or that Trump says mankind instead of human kind, or that he did whatever else he supposedly did.

The Democrats put all the chips on the table with the collusion story and I think hes going to bat that away like a midge.

Facebook wont be able to help either candidate next time out either.

Truth doesnt matter anymore.....what people think is the truth matters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 26, 2018, 02:01:35 AM
The fact the PTOUS has essentially cheated on all three of his wives and he's still considered a President of family values tells you all you need to know about American Politics. It's two counties is it not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2018, 02:14:41 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 26, 2018, 02:01:35 AM
The fact the PTOUS has essentially cheated on all three of his wives and he's still considered a President of family values tells you all you need to know about American Politics. It's two counties is it not.


I dont think anyone ever said he was the President of family values.  The Republicans claim to be the party of family values and he hijacked their nomination.  Either way, if family values are your thing, Trumps supreme court picks would be a heck of a lot more palatable than Hillarys
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 26, 2018, 04:23:59 AM
Not for my family values, by a long shot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 26, 2018, 06:28:48 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 26, 2018, 01:24:33 AM
Don't think Stormy interview will cost him one vote either.

Question is who is there can get get the others to cast their vote?

Also can't see much there for Meuller. Fixer maybe in a spot of bother but not a lot.

A bust you could say. Only interesting if there is actually evidence...
The GOP need more than 50% of votes and that means getting women to vote for Trump. 30% comprising  déplorables and evangelicals will follow instructions no matter what happens. MAGA. Collège educated women are less tolerant of all the chaos. I bet he will try a war in 2019.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 26, 2018, 08:06:47 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 26, 2018, 02:01:35 AM
The fact the PTOUS has essentially cheated on all three of his wives and he's still considered a President of family values tells you all you need to know about American Politics. It's two counties is it not.

Trump charmed the evangelicals who usually go for family values

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-apotheosis-of-donald-j.-trump/article/2011600

There is, though, one obvious piece of evidence from the president's political career that suggests his dealmaking reputation might be deserved after all: the relationship he has with evangelical political leaders. He has lavished them with attention and let them bask in his celebrity star-power, things that they, long feeling like outsiders in American culture and politics, have badly craved. In exchange, they have thrown him their support—unconditional support, by all appearances—and with it, the backing of a political constituency vital to his success at the polls.

In The Faith of Donald J. Trump, authors David Brody and Scott Lamb provide an in-depth look at the relationship between the president and American evangelicals. Brody and Lamb—respectively a newscaster with Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network and a vice president at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University—have written what they dub a "spiritual biography," even though they come right out and say they have no intention of answering the question of whether Trump is a Christian. Instead, they hope to convey his faith through his actions.

In the process, though, Brody and Lamb inadvertently expose the corruption and moral vacuity of the political evangelical movement in the United States.

Trump only started paying attention to evangelicals once he began to consider running for president—some five or more years before the 2016 campaign. He made a show of cozying up to evangelical pastors who write books that usually don't sell well outside their own congregations. He reached out to the prosperity-gospel heretic Paula White and flattered her. He asked questions of other religious leaders.

As his ambitions grew, Trump cannily cultivated relationships with evangelicals, and they convinced themselves that those relationships must be sincere since they began before he openly started campaigning for the presidency. Once he did start openly campaigning, the outreach only became more intensive. As Brody and Lamb report, Trump would seek out the preachers to sit next to at events. He would bring his mother's Bible to meetings to show it off. Evangelicals fell for it. So deluded and distracted are they by the trappings of power, they do not even see what Brody and Lamb see. "He's the P. T. Barnum of the 21st century," an anonymous banker in the book says of Donald Trump. These evangelical leaders have yet to realize that they are the suckers.

In the end, Brody and Lamb's book exposes how the leaders of the evangelical movement, long treated as outcasts from mainstream culture because of the charlatans in their midst, now enjoy an utterly transactional relationship with Donald Trump, each using the other for an end they believe justifies the means. The long-term damage to the American evangelical movement, which has spent decades working toward respectability and intellectual seriousness, remains to be seen. And a president in need of a savior is surrounded by men and women of faith who are more interested in doing business with him than calling him to repent so that his eternal soul might be saved.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2018, 09:07:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 26, 2018, 06:28:48 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 26, 2018, 01:24:33 AM
Don't think Stormy interview will cost him one vote either.

Question is who is there can get get the others to cast their vote?

Also can't see much there for Meuller. Fixer maybe in a spot of bother but not a lot.

A bust you could say. Only interesting if there is actually evidence...
The GOP need more than 50% of votes and that means getting women to vote for Trump. 30% comprising  déplorables and evangelicals will follow instructions no matter what happens. MAGA. Collège educated women are less tolerant of all the chaos. I bet he will try a war in 2019.

College educated white women swung the tide in his favor in the 2016 swing states so it's very hard to know.  A lot depends on who the Democrats nominate

I see a civil war coming in the Democratic Party. As Conor Lamb proved, to swing the house and the senate they need centrists not extremists. There's going to be a lot of centrists elected in 2018 who will not want to get behind an extreme candidate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 26, 2018, 11:28:39 AM
Remember that the GOP does not need anywhere near 50% of the vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 26, 2018, 11:55:49 AM
Interesting idea to pervent school shootings.  Peg rocks at the shooter.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/pennsylvania-school-district-has-a-plan-to-deal-with-a-shooter-rocks.html?utm_content=inf_994_2641_2&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=socialedge&utm_source=Facebook&tse_id=INF_f31d8810303c11e8b9d75bd203d5435d
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2018, 01:07:42 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 26, 2018, 11:55:49 AM
Interesting idea to pervent school shootings.  Peg rocks at the shooter.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/pennsylvania-school-district-has-a-plan-to-deal-with-a-shooter-rocks.html?utm_content=inf_994_2641_2&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=socialedge&utm_source=Facebook&tse_id=INF_f31d8810303c11e8b9d75bd203d5435d

I've been through a few active shooter trainings/exercises, and the advice is, if in the situation where you are confronted with the shooter and have no option for escape, to grab whatever the f**k is handy and throw it at him, whether its a computer monitor or stapler or whatever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2018, 07:35:25 AM

Ari Berman

@AriBerman

Dems need to win popular vote by 11 points to take back House in 2018 because of extreme gerrymandering, according to new report by @BrennanCenter. That is insanely undemocratic (link: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/03/democrats-would-need-to-trounce-republicans-to-overcome-gerrymandering-and-take-the-house/) motherjones.com/politics/2018/... via @pemalevy

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 27, 2018, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2018, 07:35:25 AM

Ari Berman

@AriBerman

Dems need to win popular vote by 11 points to take back House in 2018 because of extreme gerrymandering, according to new report by @BrennanCenter. That is insanely undemocratic (link: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/03/democrats-would-need-to-trounce-republicans-to-overcome-gerrymandering-and-take-the-house/) motherjones.com/politics/2018/... via @pemalevy

Contrary to what Democrats will tell you, they also engage in Gerrymandering

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/06/supreme-court-gerrymandering-democrats-obsession-215686
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 27, 2018, 05:33:58 PM
Whitey: Did you read that article before you posted it? As usual your attempts at "false equivalency" are shallow and badly referenced.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 27, 2018, 05:43:25 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 27, 2018, 05:33:58 PM
Whitey: Did you read that article before you posted it? As usual your attempts at "false equivalency" are shallow and badly referenced.

I live in a constituency that was Gerrymandered for Barney Frank so I have first hand experience of Democrats doing it

I read most of the article-yes

Democrats need someone or something to blame for their losses other  than the fact they have lost working class voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 27, 2018, 06:13:19 PM
You are correct losing a lot of working class support has cost the Democrats many elections, particularly at the State level. However calling out gerrymandering for what it is; is hardly a blame substitute. You got to step beyond your life's experiences and the "bad influence" of Barney Frank and back up your false equivalencies with some well researched national data.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2018, 06:29:42 PM
It boggles my mind how the US generally allows partisan legislators to oversee districting.

Arnie and the state of California have shown the way to go, as had the PA Supreme Court. It has to be taken out of the hands of corrupt political hacks, whatever their leaning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2018, 06:40:37 PM
Jerrymandering, voter suppression and stuffing the Supreme Court with suitable judges are all tools of the GOP. I forgot budget rigidity until elected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 27, 2018, 07:00:03 PM
Suitable is a stretch
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 27, 2018, 07:10:52 PM
The Democrats have been pulling every trick In The book for years.....they don't like it when the tide is turned on them

Case in point

(1) Let's make our state a sanctuary state

(2) Illegals will flock here

(3) We will get an extra congressman

(4) We will get more electoral college votes

(5) We will get more Federal Funding

How many additional seats have democrats gotten by pulling this stunt?


Biggest fvckin political scam ever invented.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2018, 07:38:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2018, 07:10:52 PM
How many additional seats have democrats gotten by pulling this stunt?

I give up. Tell me. How many seats have they gained? (We'll overlook the fact that net migration from Mexico is a negative number for now.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 27, 2018, 09:56:58 PM
Technically zero is not a number.

Delusion is however a medical condition
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Aughafad on March 27, 2018, 10:45:44 PM
Zero is a number and always has been
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2018, 10:54:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 27, 2018, 09:56:58 PM
Technically zero is not a number.

Lol, wut?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2018, 12:50:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2018, 07:38:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2018, 07:10:52 PM
How many additional seats have democrats gotten by pulling this stunt?

I give up. Tell me. How many seats have they gained? (We'll overlook the fact that net migration from Mexico is a negative number for now.)

Didn't you know that's what it is all about?

The ten year census and national congressional representation.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the local everyday business of trying to engage with and get cooperation from fearful immigrant communities. ::)

One wonders does he even believe the shite he writes himself?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:07:03 AM
Number of Electoral college votes based on the number of congressmen in a state

Number of congressmen based on population (both legal and illegal)

Democrats establish sanctuary cities and states in a cynical attempt to attract additional (illegal)  population (on top of what they already have). Due to birthright citizenship the children of the illegals are automatically citizens.

If Republicans pulled something similar, you'd all be out with the burning pitchforks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:25:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:07:03 AM
Number of Electoral college votes based on the number of congressmen in a state

Number of congressmen based on population (both legal and illegal)

Democrats establish sanctuary cities and states in a cynical attempt to attract additional (illegal)  population (on top of what they already have). Due to birthright citizenship the children of the illegals are automatically citizens.

If Republicans pulled something similar, you'd all be out with the burning pitchforks

Another fact-free contribution. Democrats are betting the house on what will happen in a generation? While alienating the white working class (as you are always reminding us), which is killing them right now?

Sanctuary city policies (for the most part) are moral and compassionate and defensible on their own merits. They don't need some supposed cynical long term political bet to rationalize them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 28, 2018, 04:53:45 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 27, 2018, 09:56:58 PM
Technically zero is not a number.

Delusion is however a medical condition

You may have come up with a "concept" there, boy from south of portydown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 28, 2018, 05:30:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Whitey ... read your constitution.. you know the document that you "originate" to. They are supposed to count all of the people who are in the United States. All of the people are not necessarily citizens. Should we ignore the written word in the constitution this time round.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 28, 2018, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 28, 2018, 05:30:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Whitey ... read your constitution.. you know the document that you "originate" to. They are supposed to count all of the people who are in the United States. All of the people are not necessarily citizens. Should we ignore the written word in the constitution this time round.

Also don't forget that in the first constitution a black man was only counted as 3/5 of a white man!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2018, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 28, 2018, 05:30:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Whitey ... read your constitution.. you know the document that you "originate" to. They are supposed to count all of the people who are in the United States. All of the people are not necessarily citizens. Should we ignore the written word in the constitution this time round.

Who ever said anything about not counting them.?  That is exactly what the addition of the question to the census is attempting to do......count them!

But legal residents need and have a right to know if their votes are being diluted by the presence of large numbers of illegal residents in other states,

https://www.thoughtco.com/should-us-census-count-illegal-immigrants-3320973
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2018, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Who the f**k is cherry picking?

I linked the data, I listed the top counts. You are so full of shit its getting boring at this stage.

We've been through the census question thing already a couple of months back  - my arguments stand, especially with no worthy counterpoints to date.

I don't really give a bollocks about the politics of it or the GOP supposedly outmanoevering the Dems. What's right is right. The sanctuary city policies are generally correct (and you're not arguing them - you're just posting bollocks about it all being a political football instead of addressing the merits of the policies - you know, the reason so many people support them). Leaving the citizenship question off the form to do a proper count of people in the country is the right thing to do, especially when the matter of citizenship is already addressed in other surveys. If you're reduced to arguing that the GOP is going to win the politics of these issues and not the merits of the issues themselves, I'll gladly concede you may be right. It doesn't make the GOP or your support of them correct however.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2018, 11:37:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 28, 2018, 05:30:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Whitey ... read your constitution.. you know the document that you "originate" to. They are supposed to count all of the people who are in the United States. All of the people are not necessarily citizens. Should we ignore the written word in the constitution this time round.

Who ever said anything about not counting them.?  That is exactly what the addition of the question to the census is attempting to do......count them!

But legal residents need and have a right to know if their votes are being diluted by the presence of large numbers of illegal residents in other states,

https://www.thoughtco.com/should-us-census-count-illegal-immigrants-3320973

Yes, that data would otherwise be hidden in the American Community Survey and the like and on websites and research like the Pew one I linked a few posts up. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 28, 2018, 11:59:57 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/556505/

Minutes after the Stormy Daniels interview on 60 Minutes, Team Trump fired off a heavy-breathing lawyer's letter, bristling with phrases like "cease and desist" and "retract and apologize."

This is exactly the approach by which Donald Trump inadvertently made millions for Michael Wolff. Having so spectacularly backfired the first time, why do it again? The short answer is: Team Trump knows nothing else.

Back when he was a private businessman, Trump learned how to use law as a weapon. The lesson he took from that is that if your pockets are deep enough—and your conscience dull enough—it doesn't matter that you are wrong. The other party will go broke before you will lose.

USA Today tallied the heavy-handed Trump litigation strategy back in June 2016. Over three decades, Trump fought 3,500 lawsuits—and faced 200 mechanic's liens—mostly arising from disputes over unpaid bills. His strategy was to contest everything, and never quit: "The Trump teams financially overpower and outlast much smaller opponents, draining their resources. Some just give up the fight, or settle for less; some have ended up in bankruptcy or out of business altogether."

Trump's cease-and-desist letters no longer frighten. They function as virtual currency, denominated in the millions of dollars. One of those letters enriched Wolff; now it's Daniels's turn—and who knows next who else? Now it is Trump who cannot afford to litigate, not because of the monetary cost but because of the reputational risks. As a skeezy reality-TV star in a third marriage governed by a tight pre-nuptial agreement, Trump could shrug off those reputational risks. As president, he cannot. They show up in polls.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2018, 12:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Who the f**k is cherry picking?

I linked the data, I listed the top counts. You are so full of shit its getting boring at this stage.

We've been through the census question thing already a couple of months back  - my arguments stand, especially with no worthy counterpoints to date.

I don't really give a bollocks about the politics of it or the GOP supposedly outmanoevering the Dems. What's right is right. The sanctuary city policies are generally correct (and you're not arguing them - you're just posting bollocks about it all being a political football instead of addressing the merits of the policies - you know, the reason so many people support them). Leaving the citizenship question off the form to do a proper count of people in the country is the right thing to do, especially when the matter of citizenship is already addressed in other surveys. If you're reduced to arguing that the GOP is going to win the politics of these issues and not the merits of the issues themselves, I'll gladly concede you may be right. It doesn't make the GOP or your support of them correct however.

Haha...oh gee....how convenient

One of the unintended consequences of sanctuary cities and states and inviting in even more illegals is that you get more congressmen and more electoral college votes........
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 12:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Who the f**k is cherry picking?

I linked the data, I listed the top counts. You are so full of shit its getting boring at this stage.

We've been through the census question thing already a couple of months back  - my arguments stand, especially with no worthy counterpoints to date.

I don't really give a bollocks about the politics of it or the GOP supposedly outmanoevering the Dems. What's right is right. The sanctuary city policies are generally correct (and you're not arguing them - you're just posting bollocks about it all being a political football instead of addressing the merits of the policies - you know, the reason so many people support them). Leaving the citizenship question off the form to do a proper count of people in the country is the right thing to do, especially when the matter of citizenship is already addressed in other surveys. If you're reduced to arguing that the GOP is going to win the politics of these issues and not the merits of the issues themselves, I'll gladly concede you may be right. It doesn't make the GOP or your support of them correct however.

Haha...oh gee....how convenient

One of the unintended consequences of sanctuary cities and states and inviting in even more illegals is that you get more congressmen and more electoral college votes........

The consequences don't make the policy wrong.

Just like the fact that Dems will potentially lose votes by advocating that illegals be treated as human beings, NOT statistics, doesn't make them wrong either.

Do you have any arguments on the merits (or otherwise) of sanctuary city policies themselves?

Are you opposed to them PURELY on the basis that you perceive they'll inflate Democratic representation (of course ignoring the data I linked earlier)?

Are you not aware that the census and the population data is creates is used for a hell of a lot more than just congressional representation, that those numbers have real, every day consequences for local communities?

We debated all this previously, of course, but as usual with you lads, its like water off a duck's back and pretty much a waste of time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
Did it ever cross your mind that the number of undocumented people in California has something to do with the massive agricultural sector?

No, didn't think so. You just stick to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about deliberately attracting people to gain more representation. Or something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 28, 2018, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
Did it ever cross your mind that the number of undocumented people in California has something to do with the massive agricultural sector?

No, didn't think so. You just stick to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about deliberately attracting people to gain more representation. Or something.
The GOP used to love non unionised immigrants driving down labour  costs and enriching the donor class.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2018, 06:31:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 12:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Who the f**k is cherry picking?

I linked the data, I listed the top counts. You are so full of shit its getting boring at this stage.

We've been through the census question thing already a couple of months back  - my arguments stand, especially with no worthy counterpoints to date.

I don't really give a bollocks about the politics of it or the GOP supposedly outmanoevering the Dems. What's right is right. The sanctuary city policies are generally correct (and you're not arguing them - you're just posting bollocks about it all being a political football instead of addressing the merits of the policies - you know, the reason so many people support them). Leaving the citizenship question off the form to do a proper count of people in the country is the right thing to do, especially when the matter of citizenship is already addressed in other surveys. If you're reduced to arguing that the GOP is going to win the politics of these issues and not the merits of the issues themselves, I'll gladly concede you may be right. It doesn't make the GOP or your support of them correct however.

Haha...oh gee....how convenient

One of the unintended consequences of sanctuary cities and states and inviting in even more illegals is that you get more congressmen and more electoral college votes........

The consequences don't make the policy wrong.

Just like the fact that Dems will potentially lose votes by advocating that illegals be treated as human beings, NOT statistics, doesn't make them wrong either.

Do you have any arguments on the merits (or otherwise) of sanctuary city policies themselves?

Are you opposed to them PURELY on the basis that you perceive they'll inflate Democratic representation (of course ignoring the data I linked earlier)?

Are you not aware that the census and the population data is creates is used for a hell of a lot more than just congressional representation, that those numbers have real, every day consequences for local communities?

We debated all this previously, of course, but as usual with you lads, its like water off a duck's back and pretty much a waste of time.

Do you think criminal illegals should be handed over to federal law enforcement officials for processing and deportation? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2018, 06:34:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
Did it ever cross your mind that the number of undocumented people in California has something to do with the massive agricultural sector?

No, didn't think so. You just stick to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about deliberately attracting people to gain more representation. Or something.

Believe whatever you want.....it's a free country

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/09/illegal-immigration-american-farming-economic-myths-debunked/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 28, 2018, 07:35:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 28, 2018, 05:30:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Whitey ... read your constitution.. you know the document that you "originate" to. They are supposed to count all of the people who are in the United States. All of the people are not necessarily citizens. Should we ignore the written word in the constitution this time round.

Who ever said anything about not counting them.?  That is exactly what the addition of the question to the census is attempting to do......count them!

But legal residents need and have a right to know if their votes are being diluted by the presence of large numbers of illegal residents in other states,

https://www.thoughtco.com/should-us-census-count-illegal-immigrants-3320973

The point Whitey is that The census is about getting an accurate head count. The addition of a citizenship question militates against the accuracy of the count. It is also messing with the constitution.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
But this census is different because it will be the first census taken where some of the states with the largest populations are openly defying federel immigration policy. 

Have these states seen an increase in the number of illegal residentsas a result of the sanctuary status?

If they have, that dilutes the vote of every legal resident in the country-can you not understand why that would be a legitimate issue for some people on the right to be concerned about?


BTW-The citizenship question was on the census up until the 1950s.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2018, 09:00:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 06:31:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 12:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
How does this Pew data line up with Whitey's "hypothesis"? Two of the top three states by raw numbers of undocumented residents voted for Trump.  three of top seven by proportion did too.

And which came first? Did sanctuary cities come into being to attract illegals to pad the Democratic constituency a generation hence? Or were they policies that arose in response to problems with law enforcement and social problems involving illegals in the large cities to which illegals gravitated for opportunity?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

By raw numbers:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. New York
5. New Jersey
6. Illinois
7. Georgia
8. Arizona

By percentage of population that are undocumented:

1. Nevada
2. Texas
3. California
4. New Jersey
5. Arizona
6. Florida
6. Maryland

Haha....spin it whatever way you want.

Cherry picking data is the oldest trick in the book.... CA has close to double the population of the next closest state and if illegals weren't counted in the census they'd lose close to 6 congressional seats

Democrats are going to lose big time if they fight this question on the census form

They've painted themselves into a corner and once again have been outmaneuvered

Who the f**k is cherry picking?

I linked the data, I listed the top counts. You are so full of shit its getting boring at this stage.

We've been through the census question thing already a couple of months back  - my arguments stand, especially with no worthy counterpoints to date.

I don't really give a bollocks about the politics of it or the GOP supposedly outmanoevering the Dems. What's right is right. The sanctuary city policies are generally correct (and you're not arguing them - you're just posting bollocks about it all being a political football instead of addressing the merits of the policies - you know, the reason so many people support them). Leaving the citizenship question off the form to do a proper count of people in the country is the right thing to do, especially when the matter of citizenship is already addressed in other surveys. If you're reduced to arguing that the GOP is going to win the politics of these issues and not the merits of the issues themselves, I'll gladly concede you may be right. It doesn't make the GOP or your support of them correct however.

Haha...oh gee....how convenient

One of the unintended consequences of sanctuary cities and states and inviting in even more illegals is that you get more congressmen and more electoral college votes........

The consequences don't make the policy wrong.

Just like the fact that Dems will potentially lose votes by advocating that illegals be treated as human beings, NOT statistics, doesn't make them wrong either.

Do you have any arguments on the merits (or otherwise) of sanctuary city policies themselves?

Are you opposed to them PURELY on the basis that you perceive they'll inflate Democratic representation (of course ignoring the data I linked earlier)?

Are you not aware that the census and the population data is creates is used for a hell of a lot more than just congressional representation, that those numbers have real, every day consequences for local communities?

We debated all this previously, of course, but as usual with you lads, its like water off a duck's back and pretty much a waste of time.

Do you think criminal illegals should be handed over to federal law enforcement officials for processing and deportation?

I've no problem with someone convicted of a crime being handed over, hence my qualification that I agree with MOST sanctuary city policies.

But again, we've covered this before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2018, 09:03:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
But this census is different because it will be the first census taken where some of the states with the largest populations are openly defying federel immigration policy. 

Have these states seen an increase in the number of illegal residentsas a result of the sanctuary status?

If they have, that dilutes the vote of every legal resident in the country-can you not understand why that would be a legitimate issue for some people on the right to be concerned about?


BTW-The citizenship question was on the census up until the 1950s.

Lots of shit happened through the 50s.

What does that Pew data show for proportions of illegals? Are blue states gaining lots of Congress people at the expense of red states?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2018, 09:18:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 09:03:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
But this census is different because it will be the first census taken where some of the states with the largest populations are openly defying federel immigration policy. 

Have these states seen an increase in the number of illegal residentsas a result of the sanctuary status?

If they have, that dilutes the vote of every legal resident in the country-can you not understand why that would be a legitimate issue for some people on the right to be concerned about?


BTW-The citizenship question was on the census up until the 1950s.

Lots of shit happened through the 50s.

What does that Pew data show for proportions of illegals? Are blue states gaining lots of Congress people at the expense of red states?

I dont know, but they very likely could!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2018, 09:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 09:18:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 09:03:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
But this census is different because it will be the first census taken where some of the states with the largest populations are openly defying federel immigration policy. 

Have these states seen an increase in the number of illegal residentsas a result of the sanctuary status?

If they have, that dilutes the vote of every legal resident in the country-can you not understand why that would be a legitimate issue for some people on the right to be concerned about?


BTW-The citizenship question was on the census up until the 1950s.

Lots of shit happened through the 50s.

What does that Pew data show for proportions of illegals? Are blue states gaining lots of Congress people at the expense of red states?

I dont know, but they very likely could!

Based on....?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2018, 09:39:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 09:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 09:18:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 09:03:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
But this census is different because it will be the first census taken where some of the states with the largest populations are openly defying federel immigration policy. 

Have these states seen an increase in the number of illegal residentsas a result of the sanctuary status?

If they have, that dilutes the vote of every legal resident in the country-can you not understand why that would be a legitimate issue for some people on the right to be concerned about?


BTW-The citizenship question was on the census up until the 1950s.

Lots of shit happened through the 50s.

What does that Pew data show for proportions of illegals? Are blue states gaining lots of Congress people at the expense of red states?

I dont know, but they very likely could!

Based on....?

The fact illegals are more likely to move there to avoid deportation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 29, 2018, 12:02:13 AM
A very interesting read, how the liberal media (not lamestream) can not see the wood for the trees when it comes not to Trump, but to lazy categorization of his supporters. Something I am also guilty of.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/oct/13/liberal-media-bias-working-class-americans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 29, 2018, 03:49:24 AM
Me a cowboy, me a cowboy, me a Mexican cowboy too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 29, 2018, 05:26:05 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 29, 2018, 12:02:13 AM
A very interesting read, how the liberal media (not lamestream) can not see the wood for the trees when it comes not to Trump, but to lazy categorization of his supporters. Something I am also guilty of.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/oct/13/liberal-media-bias-working-class-americans

I think this is a huge issue. Plutocracy is polarising by design because split societies are easier to pillage.
Red state working class voters get riled up by liberal arrogance and end up voting against their own interests.

There has to be a bringing together of people to move on. David Brooks wrote about it in the NYT

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/06/opinion/guns-soul-of-america.html

"The US needs "some sort of synthesis on the larger postindustrial/populism war. Over a century ago industrialisation brought on culture clash between agrarian populist and the genteel Victoria aristocrats.  Théodore Roosevelt transcended the fight by inventing a new kind of American nationalism. Meanwhile the progressives cleaned up elite corruption and nurtured a square deal for those left behind by technological change. Cultural leaders introduced new institutions and community forms like the Boy Scouts and the settlement house that drew from both cultures replaced them.  Today we need another grand synthesis that can move us beyond the current divide, a synthesis that is neither redneck nor hipster but draws from both worlds to create a new social vision. Progress on guns will be possible when the culture war subsides, not before. "
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 29, 2018, 07:46:57 AM
https://www.mediaite.com/online/ann-coulter-continues-anti-trump-crusade-hes-a-shallow-lazy-ignoramus
The world got to enjoy more of Ann Coulter's post-election depression on Tuesday night, as the far-right troll explained she was "heartbroken" over Donald Trump's presidency, since he is apparently not living up to the In Trump We Trust author's expectations.

During a discussion with political blogger Mickey Kaus at Columbia University, Coulter discussed her shift from hardline, MAGA-hat wearing Trump supporter, to now being one of the president's fiercest conservative critics, per a report from The Daily Beast's Lloyd Grove.

"I knew he was a shallow, lazy ignoramus, and I didn't care," said Coulter — explaining her justification for supporting Trump.

She continued by lamenting the current state of the GOP, which "breaks my heart." Coulter then admitted Republicans have a good chance of losing both the House and the Senate in this year's midterm election.

"He's not giving us what he promised at every single campaign stop," she noted.

Hollywood right-winger Rob Long, who acted as the discussions moderator, asked Kaus if Coulter should "feel like a total idiot right now" for writing In Trump We Trust — considering her current ire for the president.

Still, Coulter defended her vote for Trump by pointing to his opposition:

"We had 16 lunatics being chased by men with nets running for president—and Trump. So of course I had to be pedal-to-the-metal for Donald Trump. I regret nothing. I'd do the exact same thing. I'd write the exact same book, with the exact same title. I went into this completely clear-eyed."

The Muslim-hating, domestic terrorist advocating pundit was then heckled as "a racist" by someone in the crowd just after joking about a hypothetical immigrant named "Juanita" whose only purpose in America is to clean up "bathtubs" for "the rich"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on March 29, 2018, 09:06:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 09:18:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2018, 09:03:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
But this census is different because it will be the first census taken where some of the states with the largest populations are openly defying federel immigration policy. 

Have these states seen an increase in the number of illegal residentsas a result of the sanctuary status?

If they have, that dilutes the vote of every legal resident in the country-can you not understand why that would be a legitimate issue for some people on the right to be concerned about?


BTW-The citizenship question was on the census up until the 1950s.

Lots of shit happened through the 50s.

What does that Pew data show for proportions of illegals? Are blue states gaining lots of Congress people at the expense of red states?

I dont know, but they very likely could!

I think the red states would still have plenty of illegal people working there. If somebody crosses into Texas I doubt they're on the next bus to San Fran cos it is a sanctuary city.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 29, 2018, 09:32:10 PM
Quote
Do you think criminal illegals should be handed over to federal law enforcement officials for processing and deportation?

Undocumented people are less likely to commit crimes. Zeroing in on them is a waste of resources.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 29, 2018, 09:32:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 06:34:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
Did it ever cross your mind that the number of undocumented people in California has something to do with the massive agricultural sector?

No, didn't think so. You just stick to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about deliberately attracting people to gain more representation. Or something.

Believe whatever you want.....it's a free country

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/09/illegal-immigration-american-farming-economic-myths-debunked/
I stopped reading at "National Review."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 29, 2018, 11:44:05 PM
The Trump administration is a cheap whore filled with power hungry money grabbing dirty bastards.

Roll back by the EPA of the emission regulations?

Ouster of the veterans affairs head because he's not privatizing healthcare quick enough for the Koch brothers and replacing him with your personal physician?

This is not a "Republican vs democrat" ssue, this is "I can do whatever I want so f**k you" and he is f**king you. Decisions are being made to out as much money and power into the inner circle, the truly rich are playing the wannabe like a fiddle.

This is going to hurt. The cost to the country of rolling back these decisions will be long and will significantly hurt America's power base across the globe. But 50 already super wealthy Americans will become significantly wealthier and Trump is acting like their bitch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2018, 12:59:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 29, 2018, 09:32:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2018, 06:34:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
Did it ever cross your mind that the number of undocumented people in California has something to do with the massive agricultural sector?

No, didn't think so. You just stick to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about deliberately attracting people to gain more representation. Or something.

Believe whatever you want.....it's a free country

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/09/illegal-immigration-american-farming-economic-myths-debunked/
I stopped reading at "National Review."

Snap.....I do exactly the same when I see NY Times, CNN or MSNBC
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2018, 01:03:23 AM
You stopped reading, period.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2018, 02:32:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2018, 01:03:23 AM
You stopped reading, period.

Dems lead in the generic poll is down to 6 points......keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2018, 05:29:02 AM
Trump's approval rating is 40.2 %, disapproval 53.6%.

Race for Congress, Dems 46.4%, Repukelicans 39.7% and no sign of the GOP closing the gap.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2018, 01:19:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2018, 05:29:02 AM
Trump's approval rating is 40.2 %, disapproval 53.6%.

Race for Congress, Dems 46.4%, Repukelicans 39.7% and no sign of the GOP closing the gap.

I'd say the Republicans will take a hammering, but if they smarten up they might hold on.

Their candidates that are making it through the primaries aren't appealing to the swing voters, whereas the Democrats are
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 30, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
Hey whitey, what's going on? That's at least four posts in succession that neither start with, "believe what you want" nor quote the National Review or National Enquirer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2018, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 30, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
Hey whitey, what's going on? That's at least four posts in succession that neither start with, "believe what you want" nor quote the National Review or National Enquirer.

keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 01, 2018, 08:43:31 PM
The Myth of the Criminal Immigrant (http://[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/30/upshot/crime-immigration-myth.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 04, 2018, 11:53:32 AM
Chinese are laughing at The US at this point.

Have announced 25% tariffs on $50B of imports, firmly targeting Trump's agricultural base voters.

Trump pulling a Germany. You can't fight a trade war with China, and Russia at the same time.

All the while, the UKs unravelling influence following Brexit shows where they really are in the world's list of power brokers.

World changing quickly. China are playing a different game with different time lines. Wars. Trade or otherwise are easy to start, but not so easy to finish.

On the one hand: Calculated, reasoned, strategic with clear goals to develop global trade alliances for china

Other (small) hand: whatever crosses his mind while taking a shit and watching fox news before banging a porn star.

WTF is going on?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 07:41:57 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 04, 2018, 11:53:32 AM
Chinese are laughing at The US at this point.

Have announced 25% tariffs on $50B of imports, firmly targeting Trump's agricultural base voters.

Trump pulling a Germany. You can't fight a trade war with China, and Russia at the same time.

All the while, the UKs unravelling influence following Brexit shows where they really are in the world's list of power brokers.

World changing quickly. China are playing a different game with different time lines. Wars. Trade or otherwise are easy to start, but not so easy to finish.

On the one hand: Calculated, reasoned, strategic with clear goals to develop global trade alliances for china

Other (small) hand: whatever crosses his mind while taking a shit and watching fox news before banging a porn star.

WTF is going on?
Economics suffers from the cat problem. If the cat is put outside via the door it may reenter via the window. Trumpy "solutions" shift problems elsewhere
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on April 04, 2018, 08:54:33 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 04, 2018, 11:53:32 AM
Chinese are laughing at The US at this point.

Have announced 25% tariffs on $50B of imports, firmly targeting Trump's agricultural base voters.

Trump pulling a Germany. You can't fight a trade war with China, and Russia at the same time.

All the while, the UKs unravelling influence following Brexit shows where they really are in the world's list of power brokers.

World changing quickly. China are playing a different game with different time lines. Wars. Trade or otherwise are easy to start, but not so easy to finish.

On the one hand: Calculated, reasoned, strategic with clear goals to develop global trade alliances for china

Other (small) hand: whatever crosses his mind while taking a shit and watching fox news before banging a porn star.

WTF is going on?

According to Illinois Farm Bureau - China's imposed tariffs hit the Heartland/Midwest immediately, Soybeans down .40 per bushel that equates to 1.6 billion dollar loss to the farmers already.

Hog prices have dropped $20 per hog.

Farmers are going to be pissed come 2018 voting.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2018, 10:07:10 PM
I hope the Repukelicans keep their focus on Hillary right up to the election. Let them sleepwalk into the blue tsunami.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 05, 2018, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2018, 10:07:10 PM
I hope the Repukelicans keep their focus on Hillary right up to the election. Let them sleepwalk into the blue tsunami.

:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[


Are you really that naive???? I hope you are.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 05, 2018, 11:05:30 AM
Stew
A lot of Democrats think these mid terms are going to be a cake walk. I think they are going to get their asses handed to them in a lot of places that they aren't expecting. No voter reach out, and no leadership. Not exactly what works in middle America...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 05, 2018, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 05, 2018, 11:05:30 AM
Stew
A lot of Democrats think these mid terms are going to be a cake walk. I think they are going to get their asses handed to them in a lot of places that they aren't expecting. No voter reach out, and no leadership. Not exactly what works in middle America...

Not sure how it is going to play out.  Kudlow is a free trade guy and is on the record as saying we will figure this out. I have met Kudlow numerous time through work and he is a very reasonable measured and pragmatic individual.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 05, 2018, 12:48:32 PM
Also came across him through work, prgamatic, yes indeed. I would however disagree significantly with his economic theory, or at least those from 15 years ago. His TV views are not be those he expressed in his wall St pomp. Interesting to see where he actually comes out in this process.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 05, 2018, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 05, 2018, 12:48:32 PM
Also came across him through work, prgamatic, yes indeed. I would however disagree significantly with his economic theory, or at least those from 15 years ago. His TV views are not be those he expressed in his wall St pomp. Interesting to see where he actually comes out in this process.

He's a polarizing figure for sure. He was the architect of trickle down economics and is a big proponent of both personal responsibility and accountability.

I attended a luncheon back in September where he made a very strong case for the tax cuts-at least all the attendees thought he made a compelling case-lol

He was walking back the tariffs on TV this morning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: stew on April 05, 2018, 10:32:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2018, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 05, 2018, 11:05:30 AM
Stew
A lot of Democrats think these mid terms are going to be a cake walk. I think they are going to get their asses handed to them in a lot of places that they aren't expecting. No voter reach out, and no leadership. Not exactly what works in middle America...

Not sure how it is going to play out.  Kudlow is a free trade guy and is on the record as saying we will figure this out. I have met Kudlow numerous time through work and he is a very reasonable measured and pragmatic individual.

The democrats need to come back to the centre, if they do and  they rid themselves of the old guard I think the republicans are in for a hammering, they have no time for Trump and they have no one who is going to challenge him and beat him next time around.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 05, 2018, 10:36:01 PM
Any Muslim marches in the US today? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 01:17:27 PM
Nothing to see here

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2018, 02:31:47 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 01:17:27 PM
Nothing to see here

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.html

I'm sure they'll find evidence of some wrongdoing, but will they find evidence of Russian collusion?

BTW....I think I read somewhere that Trump rarely if ever uses email

Futures are way up this morning so markets seem to be discounting it....most Wall Street firms have former FBI guys on the payroll as corporate security so I'm sure they know exactly what was found yesterday
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 03:23:02 PM
Quotewill they find evidence of Russian collusion

It's well past that now - but you know that  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2018, 03:37:35 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 03:23:02 PM
Quotewill they find evidence of Russian collusion

It's well past that now - but you know that  ::)

So thats a no
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on April 10, 2018, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 10, 2018, 03:37:35 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 03:23:02 PM
Quotewill they find evidence of Russian collusion

It's well past that now - but you know that  ::)

So thats a no
Eyes to heaven emojis and "nothing to see here" is all the evidence you need.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 04:14:07 PM
Might want to read attention to (b) (ii) - you lads can read right?  8)

(https://i.imgur.com/DkwmdqT.jpg)



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2018, 04:36:17 PM
So that's still a no...thanks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 04:45:08 PM
Is the investigation over?  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2018, 04:49:40 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 04:45:08 PM
Is the investigation over?  ;)

Mueller can refer wrongdoings (unrelated to his investigation) to the appropriate law enforcement authorities...that seems to be what happened yesterday. It may be a campaign finance violation which is normally punished by a slap on the wrist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2018, 04:55:20 PM
I think whitey is far too complacent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 05:10:40 PM
He's an expert on campaign finance violations as well by the sounds of things
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2018, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2018, 05:10:40 PM
He's an expert on campaign finance violations as well by the sounds of things


Ehhhh......no.


Chris Hayes had a former Federal Prosecutor (maybe he was a US Attorney) on last night and that was his take on things.  Several other people said/wrote the same thing this morning.


Per a NY Times article this morning.

"The search does not appear to be directly related to Mr. Mueller's investigation, but most likely resulted from information that he had uncovered and gave to prosecutors in New York"

Believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2018, 06:48:07 PM
So the NYT is in your good graces again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 10, 2018, 07:10:04 PM
whitey- its still a no.

and it may always be still a no
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2018, 07:18:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2018, 06:48:07 PM
So the NYT is in your good graces again?

No...but if a biased left wing source like The NY Times is saying it , that should be acceptable to the leftie sheeple on here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 11, 2018, 08:31:27 AM
Trump has 3 converging crises to deal with -China, Syria and Mueller
His short attention span and lack of interest in detail mean in effect that the US is exceptionally weak. Trump is running a kleptocracy. Ho has no clue how to run the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/10/wall-street-sighs-with-relief-as-xi-jinping-finds-the-right-words

It says something when Wall Street trembles at every public statement from the leader of the free world but takes comfort from the general secretary of the Chinese communist party, but that seems to be the current state of the world.

Share prices rose strongly on Tuesday from the opening after Xi Jinping pledged to lower protectionist barriers and to take seriously complaints from foreign companies about intellectual property theft. After last week's bellicose rhetoric from Donald Trump, this was seen as an attempt by Beijing to reduce the trade tension between China and the US.

Advertisement

Trump, it is hoped, will see Xi's emollient words as evidence that his tough approach has worked and call victory without imposing threatened tariffs on Chinese goods. Once he has done so, China will remove the threat of retaliation. A tit-for-tat trade war will have been averted.

If this sounds a bit too good to be true, that's because it probably is. Trump has gone quiet on protectionism this week, but that's only because his focus has temporarily switched from China to Russia, and from trade to Syria. Wall Street should not see a period of silence from the White House as a sign that peace has broken out.

As Julian Evans-Pritchard, the China expert at Capital Economics, has pointed out, Xi's concessions were less meaningful than they appeared at first blush, but were really just a bundling together of previously announced – and hitherto undelivered – pledges.

Nor does Xi's attempt to portray China as the defender of globalisation and free trade in the face of American isolationism and protectionism really stack up. China has higher tariffs than either the EU or the US, is far less open to foreign investment, and operates an economic model weighted deliberately in favour of state-run enterprises.

Xi is operating a two-pronged strategy. Publicly, he is talking the language of conciliation. Privately, reports suggest that he is looking at ways in which a deliberate devaluation of the Chinese currency could counter US tariffs. That suggests that Beijing thinks Trump, unlike Wall Street, might not respond with great enthusiasm to warm words and reheated initiatives. That seems a reasonable assumption.

 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/10/israel-russia-syria-netanyahu-iran-middle-east

The reality is that Israel – and Netanyahu in particular – has badly misread the trajectory of Russia's re-engagement in the Middle East, which has created in the very kindest interpretation the context for Iran's projection of its influence ever further west and ever closer to Israel's borders.

Why all this matters in the current febrile context following the latest alleged use of chemical weapons in Syria, is that Israel's misjudgments sit at one corner of a dangerous matrix of unpredictability, perhaps unseen – as James Hohmann arguedin the Washington Post – since the secretary of state Dean Acheson suggested in 1950 that Korea was outside the core defence perimeter of the US.

On the American side that uncertainty around intentions has seen Donald Trumpflip-flop so dramatically that in a handful of days he has somersaulted from suggesting first that his country was rushing for the exit on Syria to a situation where military strikes seem likely.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on April 11, 2018, 12:40:58 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Daf6ChmXUAIiMiU?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 11, 2018, 01:17:34 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on April 11, 2018, 12:40:58 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Daf6ChmXUAIiMiU?format=jpg&name=medium)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/vLruErVSYGx8s/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on April 11, 2018, 04:48:12 PM
Paul Ryan announced he will not seek re-election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 11, 2018, 05:43:58 PM
Ayn Ryand has done his job reducing the Koch Bros tax bill and he is not secure of re-election in Wisconsin. So no big surprise here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 11, 2018, 06:50:31 PM
https://lawfareblog.com/how-cohen-raids-and-trumps-reactions-edge-us-toward-confrontation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 13, 2018, 08:58:11 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dab5mRvV4AAo6_-.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 14, 2018, 02:44:56 AM
Trump is bombing Syria. Assad has won the Syrian civil war so this strike is not going to effect that outcome. Let's hope this does not escalate into a full scale war with the Russians.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: An Watcher on April 14, 2018, 11:52:49 AM
Pity he isn't as quick to keep the Israelis in check. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dire Ear on April 14, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
He's keeping them in cheques
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on April 17, 2018, 01:08:59 AM
I think we have passed breaking point on this thread. Maybe we can resume discussions when normal service has been resumed.

Until then God speed to all, left right and center.

HB
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2018, 08:26:48 AM
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 19, 2018, 07:19:10 PM
"Human trafficking is worse than it has ever been in the history of the world."

Discuss . . . 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2018, 08:52:20 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/19/playboy-model-wins-right-to-tell-story-of-alleged-trump-affair

In an interview with CNN that aired last month, McDougal said she had been in love with Trump and the affair started not long after his wife, Melania, gave birth to their son, Barron.

The White House has said Trump denies having an affair with McDougal.


LOLGOP

@LOLGOP

·

15h

The right's obsession with abortion and gay rights while giving Trump a pass to cheat at will on his pregnant wife reveals a bleak truth: They're fierce defenders of their right to force their religion on their perceived enemies, and only their enemies.



John Harwood

@JohnJHarwood

·

5h

GOP members of Congress are persistently, actively attempting to interfere w/investigation by US Department of Justice

Manu Raju

@mkraju

GOP escalating feud with Justice, with Goodlatte now planning to subpoena Justice for access to Comey memos memorializing conversations with Trump, sources briefed on the matter say




Greg Sargent

@ThePlumLineGS

·

2h

Republicans are now set to subpoena Comey's memos. Let's be blunt: Rs are actively interfering in the Mueller probe to protect Trump. They will likely try to selectively leak from these memos or create pretext for Rosenstein's firing.




Greg Sargent

@ThePlumLineGS

·

Apr 18

Trump's new claim is that the search of Michael Cohen's office shows Mueller is operating in bad faith. But Trump isn't angry about law enforcement abuses. He's angry that *legitimate* law enforcement processes are being applied *to him.*


Chloe Angyal

@ChloeAngyal

·

15h

One thing I learned editing this piece: Kentucky is spending $374m on the bureaucracy it needs to implement work requirements for Medicaid... and to free up that money it is *cutting Medicaid coverage.* "Kafka would be proud."


Opinion | The Trump Administration Is Waging War On The Poor

huffingtonpost.com








Matthew Miller

@matthewamiller

·

16h

At some point Rosenstein needs to tell them to stop interfering in ongoing investigations. Let them hold him in contempt. The goalposts for Congrsssional involvement in criminal probes are shifting in a dangerous way.

Manu Raju

@mkraju

GOP escalating feud with Justice, with Goodlatte now planning to subpoena Justice for access to Comey memos memorializing conversations with Trump, sources briefed on the matter say








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 26, 2018, 12:28:26 PM
#Macron2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on April 26, 2018, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: heganboy on April 17, 2018, 01:08:59 AM
I think we have passed breaking point on this thread. Maybe we can resume discussions when normal service has been resumed.

Until then God speed to all, left right and center.

HB
a sensible approach - the same old shite in circles.
Maybe see you about NY in May or Armagh in Jully!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 03, 2018, 12:54:58 PM
QuoteMr. Cohen, an attorney, received a monthly retainer, not from the campaign and having nothing to do with the campaign, from which he entered into, through reimbursement, a private contract between two parties, known as a non-disclosure agreement, or NDA. These agreements are.....

...very common among celebrities and people of wealth. In this case it is in full force and effect and will be used in Arbitration for damages against Ms. Clifford (Daniels). The agreement was used to stop the false and extortionist accusations made by her about an affair,......

...despite already having signed a detailed letter admitting that there was no affair. Prior to its violation by Ms. Clifford and her attorney, this was a private agreement. Money from the campaign, or campaign contributions, played no roll in this transaction.

A bit different from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZzyq3S-4Yk

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2018, 07:13:34 PM
Jaysus

https://youtu.be/liH8hnaXV7U
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2018, 09:55:18 PM
https://youtu.be/Uh3TZMoN7OU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 18, 2018, 07:31:45 AM
Patrick S. Tomlinson

@stealthygeek

·

15h

Clinton email investigation: -2 yrs -0 indictments -0 convictions Benghazi investigation: -4 yrs -0 indictments -0 convictions White Water investigation -6 yrs -0 indictments -0 convictions Trump/Russia investigation: -1 yr (so far) -19 indictments -4 convictions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2018, 02:27:44 PM
Brian Stelter asks Kellyanne Conway the same question 6 times and does not get a straight answer

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1805/20/rs.01.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 24, 2018, 07:58:20 PM
Does this mean the Nobel Peace Prize is gone??? 🤔🤔
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 24, 2018, 08:14:06 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Robert_E_Kelly/status/998840959021473800
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on May 24, 2018, 09:45:29 PM
Probably, Screen, but the Ignoble Piss Prize is on the cards, or maybe the sheets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2018, 11:38:41 PM
Jesus Christ - https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/hhs-official-says-agency-lost-track-of-nearly-1500-unaccompanied-minors/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 27, 2018, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2018, 11:38:41 PM
Jesus Christ - https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/hhs-official-says-agency-lost-track-of-nearly-1500-unaccompanied-minors/

Ricardo de Anda‏ @ricardo_de_anda 

I have an immigration client whose 23 month old baby was taken from her. The government can't (or won't) tell us where he's being kept, or who is caring for him. What the hell does the government want with a toddler, other than to terrorize. #WhereAreTheChildren

@NormOrnstein · 26 may

There are few worse crimes than selling children into slavery, especially sex slavery. Along with many others lost. The ICE and Border patrol individuals responsible for this, along with those who enabled them through this monstrous policy, should be given life in prison


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 28, 2018, 12:16:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 27, 2018, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2018, 11:38:41 PM
Jesus Christ - https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/hhs-official-says-agency-lost-track-of-nearly-1500-unaccompanied-minors/

Ricardo de Anda‏ @ricardo_de_anda 

I have an immigration client whose 23 month old baby was taken from her. The government can't (or won't) tell us where he's being kept, or who is caring for him. What the hell does the government want with a toddler, other than to terrorize. #WhereAreTheChildren

@NormOrnstein · 26 may

There are few worse crimes than selling children into slavery, especially sex slavery. Along with many others lost. The ICE and Border patrol individuals responsible for this, along with those who enabled them through this monstrous policy, should be given life in prison

So to fully understand the context we would ned to know

(1) How many were released to the custody of a parent?

(2) How many were released to the custody of a relative?

(3) How many were released to the custody of a "sponsor"?

(4) What were the ages of those involved?

(5) Then give us the exact same information for the duration of the Obama administration.

This has been going on for years......the media trying to pin it mainly on Trump and the Republicans is fake news of the highest order

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Opening%20Statement%20of%20Chairman%20Rob%20Portman.pdf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 28, 2018, 05:39:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 27, 2018, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2018, 11:38:41 PM
Jesus Christ - https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/hhs-official-says-agency-lost-track-of-nearly-1500-unaccompanied-minors/

Ricardo de Anda‏ @ricardo_de_anda 

I have an immigration client whose 23 month old baby was taken from her. The government can't (or won't) tell us where he's being kept, or who is caring for him. What the hell does the government want with a toddler, other than to terrorize. #WhereAreTheChildren

@NormOrnstein · 26 may

There are few worse crimes than selling children into slavery, especially sex slavery. Along with many others lost. The ICE and Border patrol individuals responsible for this, along with those who enabled them through this monstrous policy, should be given life in prison

Good thread on this subject.

https://twitter.com/jduffyrice/status/1000927903759110144 (https://twitter.com/jduffyrice/status/1000927903759110144)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 29, 2018, 06:23:11 AM
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/28/us/politics/trump-conspiracy-theories-spygate.html

Erick Erickson, the founder of the conservative website RedState, who once described Mr. Trump as a "walking, talking National Enquirer," said the president's invented stories also speak to the public's desire to have an easy explanation for events it cannot control.

"A lot of people really want to believe a conspiracy because it's a lot easier to think a malevolent force is in charge than that our government is run by idiots," Mr. Erickson said in an interview
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 29, 2018, 10:01:49 PM
Roseanne Barr just let down an awful lot of people

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/may/29/roseanne-barr-tweet-valerie-jarrett-ape
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 30, 2018, 07:24:20 PM
Didn't the Nazis let parents keep their children close on the way to the gas chambers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 30, 2018, 10:14:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 30, 2018, 07:24:20 PM
Didn't the Nazis let parents keep their children close on the way to the gas chambers?


Fake news.     https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/illegal-immigration-enforcement-separating-kids-at-border/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 09:20:40 AM
Richard Stengel

@stengel


While it is by no means his worst character trait, it may be the most annoying: Self-pity. Oh, poor Donnie, everyone's out to get you. In addition to the narcissism, it is also typically part of the authoritarian personality mix of autocrats. That's the danger.



Maggie Haberman

@maggieNYT


Mememememe


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Bob Iger of ABC called Valerie Jarrett to let her know that "ABC does not tolerate comments like those" made by Roseanne Barr. Gee, he never called President Donald J. Trump to apologize for the HORRIBLE statements made and said about me on ABC. Maybe I just didn't get the call?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2018, 10:47:53 AM
I've stopped watching news as I just would rather not be angered and disgusted every evening by his personal conduct. The most despicable human being to ever hold the office. But unfortunately, it probably won't end with him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2018, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present

Fair point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 31, 2018, 01:00:59 PM
Absolutely pathetic

:picard:  :uhoh:  :picard:  :uhoh: 

(https://i.imgur.com/FCd3AsS.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way

So you have no issues with a NY Times journalist intentionally lying about how many people attended the rally???

Believe me, I fvckin hate Trump. I'm embarrassed that he got the Republican nomination.

But he's right about the media....CNN, MSNBC and the New York Times now have about as much credibility as Fox News
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way

So you have no issues with a NY Times journalist intentionally lying about how many people attended the rally???

Believe me, I fvckin hate Trump. I'm embarrassed that he got the Republican nomination.

But he's right about the media....CNN, MSNBC and the New York Times now have about as much credibility as Fox News
If an under 14 picked up.the ball off the ground playing for Burrishoole I wouldn't compare it to an eye gouging in an all Ireland Final. Would you ?

You have no idea what Trump and his cronies are doing to the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on May 31, 2018, 02:00:32 PM
It's the usual false equivalence motif. The problem is that vast numbers of Trump supporters (including our correspondents here who laughably try to add credibility to their posts by pretending not to be Trump supporters) swallow it whole.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 02:07:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 31, 2018, 02:00:32 PM
It's the usual false equivalence motif. The problem is that vast numbers of Trump supporters (including our correspondents here who laughably try to add credibility to their posts by pretending not to be Trump supporters) swallow it whole.

I dislike Trump and the Democrats equally, in much the same way many people in Ireland detest both Enda Kenny and Bertie Ahern

Problem is middle of the road Republican get obliterated by the press and painted as something they're not.....so there's fvck all to gain by nominating a moderate such as Romney

Many Trump supporters I know simply don't give a fvck....their taxes have been cut, their guns are safe and they hope he'll get to appoint at least one more Supreme Court justice
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on May 31, 2018, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 02:07:13 PM
I dislike Trump and the Democrats equally

Yes - that's clear from the scrupulously equal number of your posts condemning each.
::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 02:13:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 02:07:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 31, 2018, 02:00:32 PM
It's the usual false equivalence motif. The problem is that vast numbers of Trump supporters (including our correspondents here who laughably try to add credibility to their posts by pretending not to be Trump supporters) swallow it whole.

I dislike Trump and the Democrats equally, in much the same way many people in Ireland detest both Enda Kenny and Bertie Ahern

Problem is middle of the road Republican get obliterated by the press and painted as something they're not.....so there's fvck all to gain by nominating a moderate such as Romney

Many Trump supporters I know simply don't give a fvck....their taxes have been cut, their guns are safe and they hope he'll get to appoint at least one more Supreme Court justice
Their taxes cut but gas went up wiping out the tax cut for 40% of Americans. Most don't realise they live in a plutocracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 04:51:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 31, 2018, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 02:07:13 PM
I dislike Trump and the Democrats equally

Yes - that's clear from the scrupulously equal number of your posts condemning each.
::)

The sheeple regurgitaing CNNs talking points already have that side covered on here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way

So you have no issues with a NY Times journalist intentionally lying about how many people attended the rally???

Believe me, I fvckin hate Trump. I'm embarrassed that he got the Republican nomination.

But he's right about the media....CNN, MSNBC and the New York Times now have about as much credibility as Fox News
If an under 14 picked up.the ball off the ground playing for Burrishoole I wouldn't compare it to an eye gouging in an all Ireland Final. Would you ?

You have no idea what Trump and his cronies are doing to the US.

Believe what you want

The likes of the NY Times and  CNN never give conservatives a fair shake and now theyre getting called on it and rightly so.

I mean.....you couldnt make it up.....NY Times reporter tweeted how upsetting it was to get called fake news by a bunch of kids, then goes ahead and underestimates the attendance at the rally by over 80%.   Keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2018, 05:04:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way

So you have no issues with a NY Times journalist intentionally lying about how many people attended the rally???

Believe me, I fvckin hate Trump. I'm embarrassed that he got the Republican nomination.

But he's right about the media....CNN, MSNBC and the New York Times now have about as much credibility as Fox News
If an under 14 picked up.the ball off the ground playing for Burrishoole I wouldn't compare it to an eye gouging in an all Ireland Final. Would you ?

You have no idea what Trump and his cronies are doing to the US.

Believe what you want

The likes of the NY Times and  CNN never give conservatives a fair shake and now theyre getting called on it and rightly so.

I mean.....you couldnt make it up.....NY Times reporter tweeted how upsetting it was to get called fake news by a bunch of kids, then goes ahead and underestimates the attendance at the rally by over 80%.   Keep it up

At least the Times, when they get it wrong, issue a correction.

Do Fox News (given that you're equating the two)?

Trump seems to think being held accountable or called out on his own lies is fake news. Meanwhile he endorses the likes of Alex Jones, who, happily (for lack of a better word) is getting sued by the Sandy Hook parents for his disgusting output.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:06:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way

So you have no issues with a NY Times journalist intentionally lying about how many people attended the rally???

Believe me, I fvckin hate Trump. I'm embarrassed that he got the Republican nomination.

But he's right about the media....CNN, MSNBC and the New York Times now have about as much credibility as Fox News
If an under 14 picked up.the ball off the ground playing for Burrishoole I wouldn't compare it to an eye gouging in an all Ireland Final. Would you ?

You have no idea what Trump and his cronies are doing to the US.

Believe what you want

The likes of the NY Times and  CNN never give conservatives a fair shake and now theyre getting called on it and rightly so.

I mean.....you couldnt make it up.....NY Times reporter tweeted how upsetting it was to get called fake news by a bunch of kids, then goes ahead and underestimates the attendance at the rally by over 80%.   Keep it up
People like Maggie Haberman of the NYT and Greg Sergeant of the Wa Po have been working carefully since the inauguration to describe the chaos of the Trump presidency. Fake news means anything Trump doesn't like. Most of the fakery is in the WH

. Brian Beutler

@brianbeutler


In my opinion, the key question is this: How much of a typical live interview with Conway would a journalist have to cut for being deceptive, if the interview were conducted for a print story? Nearly all of it. But on live TV it all goes out unfiltered and viewers are deceived.

Brian Stelter

@brianstelter

100s of people have asked this today. Answer: Conway is a key W.H. aide. She speaks to POTUS. She reps the POV of many Trump voters. So, I strive for thought-provoking Q's. I think her answers AND non-answers are revealing. Judge the transcript: (link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1805/20/rs.01.html)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:09:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 05:04:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way

So you have no issues with a NY Times journalist intentionally lying about how many people attended the rally???

Believe me, I fvckin hate Trump. I'm embarrassed that he got the Republican nomination.

But he's right about the media....CNN, MSNBC and the New York Times now have about as much credibility as Fox News
If an under 14 picked up.the ball off the ground playing for Burrishoole I wouldn't compare it to an eye gouging in an all Ireland Final. Would you ?

You have no idea what Trump and his cronies are doing to the US.

Believe what you want

The likes of the NY Times and  CNN never give conservatives a fair shake and now theyre getting called on it and rightly so.

I mean.....you couldnt make it up.....NY Times reporter tweeted how upsetting it was to get called fake news by a bunch of kids, then goes ahead and underestimates the attendance at the rally by over 80%.   Keep it up

At least the Times, when they get it wrong, issue a correction.

Do Fox News (given that you're equating the two)?

Trump seems to think being held accountable or called out on his own lies is fake news. Meanwhile he endorses the likes of Alex Jones, who, happily (for lack of a better word) is getting sued by the Sandy Hook parents for his disgusting output.

Haven't watched Fox News in about 10 years so I wouldn't know. Fox are unapologetic right wing and biased.....problem is NY Times and CNN have become left wing clones of Fox
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:12:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:06:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way

So you have no issues with a NY Times journalist intentionally lying about how many people attended the rally???

Believe me, I fvckin hate Trump. I'm embarrassed that he got the Republican nomination.

But he's right about the media....CNN, MSNBC and the New York Times now have about as much credibility as Fox News
If an under 14 picked up.the ball off the ground playing for Burrishoole I wouldn't compare it to an eye gouging in an all Ireland Final. Would you ?

You have no idea what Trump and his cronies are doing to the US.

Believe what you want

The likes of the NY Times and  CNN never give conservatives a fair shake and now theyre getting called on it and rightly so.

I mean.....you couldnt make it up.....NY Times reporter tweeted how upsetting it was to get called fake news by a bunch of kids, then goes ahead and underestimates the attendance at the rally by over 80%.   Keep it up
People like Maggie Haberman of the NYT and Greg Sergeant of the Wa Po have been working carefully since the inauguration to describe the chaos of the Trump presidency. Fake news means anything Trump doesn't like. Most of the fakery is in the WH

. Brian Beutler

@brianbeutler


In my opinion, the key question is this: How much of a typical live interview with Conway would a journalist have to cut for being deceptive, if the interview were conducted for a print story? Nearly all of it. But on live TV it all goes out unfiltered and viewers are deceived.

Brian Stelter

@brianstelter

100s of people have asked this today. Answer: Conway is a key W.H. aide. She speaks to POTUS. She reps the POV of many Trump voters. So, I strive for thought-provoking Q's. I think her answers AND non-answers are revealing. Judge the transcript: (link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1805/20/rs.01.html)

This is exactly my point......there's enough real $hit that's outrageous to report why fabricate ANYTHING?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:12:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:06:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way

So you have no issues with a NY Times journalist intentionally lying about how many people attended the rally???

Believe me, I fvckin hate Trump. I'm embarrassed that he got the Republican nomination.

But he's right about the media....CNN, MSNBC and the New York Times now have about as much credibility as Fox News
If an under 14 picked up.the ball off the ground playing for Burrishoole I wouldn't compare it to an eye gouging in an all Ireland Final. Would you ?

You have no idea what Trump and his cronies are doing to the US.

Believe what you want

The likes of the NY Times and  CNN never give conservatives a fair shake and now theyre getting called on it and rightly so.

I mean.....you couldnt make it up.....NY Times reporter tweeted how upsetting it was to get called fake news by a bunch of kids, then goes ahead and underestimates the attendance at the rally by over 80%.   Keep it up
People like Maggie Haberman of the NYT and Greg Sergeant of the Wa Po have been working carefully since the inauguration to describe the chaos of the Trump presidency. Fake news means anything Trump doesn't like. Most of the fakery is in the WH

. Brian Beutler

@brianbeutler


In my opinion, the key question is this: How much of a typical live interview with Conway would a journalist have to cut for being deceptive, if the interview were conducted for a print story? Nearly all of it. But on live TV it all goes out unfiltered and viewers are deceived.

Brian Stelter

@brianstelter

100s of people have asked this today. Answer: Conway is a key W.H. aide. She speaks to POTUS. She reps the POV of many Trump voters. So, I strive for thought-provoking Q's. I think her answers AND non-answers are revealing. Judge the transcript: (link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1805/20/rs.01.html)

This is exactly my point......there's enough real $hit that's outrageous to report why fabricate ANYTHING?
Why focus on some thing pointless ? I don't understand.
The logic behind Fake News is that only Trump cares about the flyover states. That is also bs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2018, 05:32:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:09:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 05:04:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Anyone read about the NY Times reporter tweeting about how upsetting and disheartening  it was to have kids taunting her at Trumps Nashville rally with cries of "fake news"

She went on to report that attendance at the rally was 1,000

She later corrected the attendance to 5,500

Keep it up


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/new-york-times-issues-correction-of-its-crowd-size-estimate-for-trump-nashville-rally/2018/05/30/079e46e4-6436-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8aeac0cf1153

Absolutely they should "keep it up" and correct the record when warranted.

Maybe one of these days Trump and the right wing media will acknowledge their lies and bullshit or even honest mistakes and issue corrections ... or maybe not.

Im on the same side as you, but why the fvck are they playing into his hands by being this sloppy with their reporting.....as I said from day 1, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about without making $hit up

If you went to a football match, I think you could tell if there was 1,000 or 5,500 people present
Big deal Whitey
Trump lies all the time.
How did such a mendacious malignant narcissist become a GOP president ?  Conservatism is in a bad way

So you have no issues with a NY Times journalist intentionally lying about how many people attended the rally???

Believe me, I fvckin hate Trump. I'm embarrassed that he got the Republican nomination.

But he's right about the media....CNN, MSNBC and the New York Times now have about as much credibility as Fox News
If an under 14 picked up.the ball off the ground playing for Burrishoole I wouldn't compare it to an eye gouging in an all Ireland Final. Would you ?

You have no idea what Trump and his cronies are doing to the US.

Believe what you want

The likes of the NY Times and  CNN never give conservatives a fair shake and now theyre getting called on it and rightly so.

I mean.....you couldnt make it up.....NY Times reporter tweeted how upsetting it was to get called fake news by a bunch of kids, then goes ahead and underestimates the attendance at the rally by over 80%.   Keep it up

At least the Times, when they get it wrong, issue a correction.

Do Fox News (given that you're equating the two)?

Trump seems to think being held accountable or called out on his own lies is fake news. Meanwhile he endorses the likes of Alex Jones, who, happily (for lack of a better word) is getting sued by the Sandy Hook parents for his disgusting output.

Haven't watched Fox News in about 10 years so I wouldn't know. Fox are unapologetic right wing and biased.....problem is NY Times and CNN have become left wing clones of Fox

CNN May well be (I wouldn't know) but there is simply no basis for equating the Times with Fox.

Fox is a propaganda outlet from Trump and the paranoid, resentful section of the right wing.

The Times is a mainstream hard news outlet with a liberal editorial page.

One does serious journalism and issues corrections. The other takes pride in misrepresentation and clouding the issues.

No comparison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:35:18 PM
Fox is not journalism. The NYT is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:35:18 PM
Fox is not journalism. The NYT is.

Like the time they let Hillarys campaign edit the pro Bernie editorial-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on May 31, 2018, 05:52:37 PM
Has Kim Kardashian sorted out prison reform. I look forward to Sylvester Stallone sorting out the economy and Paris Hilton the Middle East.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:35:18 PM
Fox is not journalism. The NYT is.

Like the time they let Hillarys campaign edit the pro Bernie editorial-lol
the plural of anecdote is not data
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:35:18 PM
Fox is not journalism. The NYT is.

Like the time they let Hillarys campaign edit the pro Bernie editorial-lol
the plural of anecdote is not data

Its not an anecdote....it happened. 

If you hold the NYT in such high regard you should be extremely disturbed that a political campaign was able to edit an editorial on an opponent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2018, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:35:18 PM
Fox is not journalism. The NYT is.

Like the time they let Hillarys campaign edit the pro Bernie editorial-lol
the plural of anecdote is not data

Its not an anecdote....it happened. 

If you hold the NYT in such high regard you should be extremely disturbed that a political campaign was able to edit an editorial on an opponent.

Your use of it is absolutely anecdotal.

Especially since it's the same single lone example you've been using to attack the Times and draw false equivalencies for the past two years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 31, 2018, 07:45:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:35:18 PM
Fox is not journalism. The NYT is.

Like the time they let Hillarys campaign edit the pro Bernie editorial-lol
the plural of anecdote is not data

Its not an anecdote....it happened. 

If you hold the NYT in such high regard you should be extremely disturbed that a political campaign was able to edit an editorial on an opponent.

Do you have any information/links about this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:35:18 PM
Fox is not journalism. The NYT is.

Like the time they let Hillarys campaign edit the pro Bernie editorial-lol
the plural of anecdote is not data

Its not an anecdote....it happened. 

If you hold the NYT in such high regard you should be extremely disturbed that a political campaign was able to edit an editorial on an opponent.

Your use of it is absolutely anecdotal.

Especially since it's the same single lone example you've been using to attack the Times and draw false equivalencies for the past two years.


Lol.....you have a problem with me bringing it up, but no problem with the fact it happened.....unbelievable!!!

http://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-new-york-times-propped-up-clinton-subverted-sanders/

"Rather, publications like the Times overtly skewed their coverage to favor Clinton. Such extreme bias for one presidential candidate is harrowing, given the Times' size and reputation of integrity for trusted journalism. The 2016 Democratic primaries saw the paper destroying that integrity and trust."

As a wise person once told me, believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 09:31:36 PM
Whitey

Can you give 10 more examples where the NYT was 20% as mendacious as Kellyanne Conway? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 09:31:36 PM
Whitey

Can you give 10 more examples where the NYT was 20% as mendacious as Kellyanne Conway?

But shes a partisan hack....I would expect nothing else from her.

NY Times is a disgrace and I wouldnt wipe my ar$e with it, never mind holding it up as an example of journalisyic integrity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2018, 09:57:30 PM
Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary !!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2018, 10:03:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2018, 09:57:30 PM
Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary !!!!!!!

You left out the "for prison" part
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2018, 12:06:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2018, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2018, 05:35:18 PM
Fox is not journalism. The NYT is.

Like the time they let Hillarys campaign edit the pro Bernie editorial-lol
the plural of anecdote is not data

Its not an anecdote....it happened. 

If you hold the NYT in such high regard you should be extremely disturbed that a political campaign was able to edit an editorial on an opponent.

Your use of it is absolutely anecdotal.

Especially since it's the same single lone example you've been using to attack the Times and draw false equivalencies for the past two years.


Lol.....you have a problem with me bringing it up, but no problem with the fact it happened.....unbelievable!!!

http://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-new-york-times-propped-up-clinton-subverted-sanders/

"Rather, publications like the Times overtly skewed their coverage to favor Clinton. Such extreme bias for one presidential candidate is harrowing, given the Times' size and reputation of integrity for trusted journalism. The 2016 Democratic primaries saw the paper destroying that integrity and trust."

As a wise person once told me, believe what you want

Where did I say I have a problem with you bringing it up?

I was refuting your claim that your repeated falling back on it as your only exhibit was not anecdotal, or that that incident proves that the Times plumbs the depths of journalistic malfeasance that Fox does as a matter of routine.

Bring it up as much as you want, but if you want to make a case that the Times habitually twists facts you might want to bring some new material to the table.

With that, I'm done. I'm not getting sucked back into this pointless bickering which we've already done twenty times. I think the Dems are mediocre, albeit at least sane (for the most part), but the GOP, already wrong on so many issues, are an utter disgrace and morally and intellectually bankrupt, having sold out to that shitstain. There's not much more to say until that cuntt either dies or is voted out. Hopefully the damage he does will be reparable and the right wing will come to their senses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2018, 09:17:04 AM
I wouldn't vote conservative but I do respect the ideology. Conservative means keeping things steady and thinking about the future but maybe less about people.

Trump is no conservative. Neither is the GOP a conservative party.  Slashing taxes in the middle of a managed depression is economic vandalism.  Climate change denial is pure evil.

There is nobody for conservatives to vote for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2018, 11:50:30 AM
A very good show on Trump last night on RTE.. He more or less has the senators by the balls, what a weak set of people..

There were a couple that tried to stand up to him but they have resigned.. And Trump has made a model of how to win further elections for the GOP in the future..

You got to hand it to Trump, he's a cnut but a very clever cnut in terms of getting dumass Americans to vote for him, tel they what they want to hear! DUP style
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 01, 2018, 12:22:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2018, 11:50:30 AM
A very good show on Trump last night on RTE.. He more or less has the senators by the balls, what a weak set of people..

There were a couple that tried to stand up to him but they have resigned.. And Trump has made a model of how to win further elections for the GOP in the future..

You got to hand it to Trump, he's a cnut but a very clever cnut in terms of getting dumass Americans to vote for him, tel they what they want to hear! DUP style

This is hardly new for a politician but Trump is brilliant in his brazenness, he just doesn't give a f**k that he's lying through his teeth and as quick again will contradict himself.

The end really does justify the means with him, especially when you've no moral scruples at all.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2018, 12:37:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2018, 12:22:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2018, 11:50:30 AM
A very good show on Trump last night on RTE.. He more or less has the senators by the balls, what a weak set of people..

There were a couple that tried to stand up to him but they have resigned.. And Trump has made a model of how to win further elections for the GOP in the future..

You got to hand it to Trump, he's a cnut but a very clever cnut in terms of getting dumass Americans to vote for him, tel they what they want to hear! DUP style

This is hardly new for a politician but Trump is brilliant in his brazenness, he just doesn't give a f**k that he's lying through his teeth and as quick again will contradict himself.

The end really does justify the means with him, especially when you've no moral scruples at all.
Trump isn't strategic. He is impulsive.
His tariff idea was not thought through. Neither was his climate position.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/31/north-korea-trump-approach-risks-disaster-warns-japan-diplomat-mr-x-hitoshi-tanaka

Tanaka highlighted the importance of Confucianism in Asia, meaning trust-building steps were crucial. The US, he said, sometimes tried to use its substantial power "as the backdrop to proceeding with the negotiations and that kind of style could backfire in Asia".


The breakthrough came after officials conducted some 25 meetings in secret over the course of a year.

They included negotiations with a senior North Korean military official, referred to by the Japanese in private as "Mr X", in a process that helped to build trust and momentum for an eventual summit between Kim and Junichiro Koizumi, then prime minister of Japan.

In contrast, Tanaka said, Trump appeared to be "trying to do many things on his own" without enough discussion with staff.

"One major difference is that the current process is a top-down process where President Trump himself personally makes the decision 'we will do the summit', 'we will not do the summit'; and that kind of process may deliver extremely significant outcomes, but at the same time I think that there is a high risk that it would also lead to disastrous outcomes," Tanaka said.

"If the US-North Korean summit would be held without sufficient preparations and ending up in major failure, then it's going to be a huge cost which will have to be borne by all of the countries in this region."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/25/north-korea-suummit-donald-trump-white-house

How much longer can the international community pretend that having a narcissistic amateur running the White House is a tolerable or even manageable state of affairs? Just look at the global wreckage after 18 months of Trump. A landmark climate change pact trashed. Protectionism, trade wars and divisive border walls on the rise. Hopes of peace in Israel-Palestine, and dozens of Palestinian lives, sacrificed to the presidential ego. A potentially catastrophic dereliction of duty under way in Syria. Continuing appeasement of Russia. And a new Middle East war in the making, after Trump's unilateral renunciation of the Iran nuclear deal. It is no exaggeration to say US authority and credibility on the world stage are now at stake.

This is not leadership. It is day-by-day, manmade chaos masquerading as policy. It's not America First. It's America Foolish. Yet there is no end in sight to the damaging tomfoolery. Trump does not learn from his mistakes. He just makes bigger ones.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on June 01, 2018, 12:38:06 PM
I will just be interested to see if all the dodgy deals being done by his daughter and his son in law, some on his behlaf will come to light during or after his presidency. He basically using the presidents office to enrich all those around him, a good bit of it already in the public domain but no one seems to have the guts to pull him on.

It will end up as predicted with the rich becoming richer and the dopey americans who voted him in ending up worse off than ever before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2018, 01:44:40 PM
2016 was the year of the third party candidate....people are completely fed up with the Democrats and Republicans

Without the super delegates, the press bias and DNC corruption,  Bernie could have and should have won the Democratic nomination

The people who put Trump over the edge in the swing states are people who voted for Obama once if not twice.......think about that for a moment.

A lot of people are being left behind.....middle America is hurting.  Healthcare is a disaster, blue collar jobs are disappearing and folks are losing hope.The burden of paying taxes is falling on fewer and fewer people. 

Politics of division plays very well in this environment......tell people theyre victims and that youre going to right some wrong that was perpetuated upon them

Its all very depressing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2018, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2018, 09:17:04 AM
I wouldn't vote conservative but I do respect the ideology. Conservative means keeping things steady and thinking about the future but maybe less about people.

Trump is no conservative. Neither is the GOP a conservative party.  Slashing taxes in the middle of a managed depression is economic vandalism.  Climate change denial is pure evil.

There is nobody for conservatives to vote for.

A typo? We're not in a depression. The criticism is that he's trying to stimulate the economy in a time of full employment, which leads to inflation, rising interest rates, and a recession not long after (probably when a Democrat has taken office and can get the blame for it). Certainly is economic vandalism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2018, 06:36:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2018, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2018, 09:17:04 AM
I wouldn't vote conservative but I do respect the ideology. Conservative means keeping things steady and thinking about the future but maybe less about people.

Trump is no conservative. Neither is the GOP a conservative party.  Slashing taxes in the middle of a managed depression is economic vandalism.  Climate change denial is pure evil.

There is nobody for conservatives to vote for.

A typo? We're not in a depression. The criticism is that he's trying to stimulate the economy in a time of full employment, which leads to inflation, rising interest rates, and a recession not long after (probably when a Democrat has taken office and can get the blame for it). Certainly is economic vandalism.
It's not a typo. Interest rates are on the floor. Only that and central banks buying up bonds prevent a stock market crash. Wage growth is pathetic. Debt is out of control.
The next crash will kill the dollar , partly because of the tax cut. There won't be anyone to lend money to the US when its deficit is 10-15% of GDP.
Employment is not full either. Labor Participation is very, very poor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on June 12, 2018, 06:30:34 PM
Could anyone other than the Donald have done a deal with N Korea?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 12, 2018, 06:52:03 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on June 12, 2018, 06:30:34 PM
Could anyone other than the Donald have done a deal with N Korea?

Robert E Kelly‏ @Robert_E_Kelly ·
Post-presser, let's just say it: Trump is a dove on North Korea. There is nothing 'strong' about the following: 1. Gave the summit for nothing. 2. Ducked human rights. 3. Gave up milex with S Korea for no concrete concession. 4. Declared desire to remove USFK, also for nothing /1

Robert E Kelly‏
reciprocally defined. 5. Kicking around a peace treaty, also tied to no specific concession. 5. Criticized SK as cheap-skates, bc Guam-based bombers are costly. Apparently jet-fuel is so expensive, it's worth casting aside a 60-year ally and friend. (Try to imagine Fox's   /2


response if Obama had said something that petty.) Abe worried that Trump would throw Japan under the bus over short-range missiles. Actually he's doing that to South Korea. If we don't get something enormous for all this, this is very depressing.  END


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2018, 07:05:01 PM
Someone's going to have to explain to me why the Iran deal was a bad one and why this is a good one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on June 12, 2018, 07:34:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2018, 07:05:01 PM
Someone's going to have to explain to me why the Iran deal was a bad one and why this is a good one.

Israel and Saudi Arabia
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 12, 2018, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2018, 07:05:01 PM
Someone's going to have to explain to me why the Iran deal was a bad one

because Obama did it

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2018, 07:05:01 PM
and why this is a good one.

because Trump did it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2018, 09:48:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2018, 07:05:01 PM
Someone's going to have to explain to me why the Iran deal was a bad one and why this is a good one.

While its a right wing take, its worth reading

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/iran-nuclear-deal-disaster-from-the-start/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 18, 2018, 06:13:05 PM
I stopped reading at "National Review." Give me a credible source.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 18, 2018, 08:57:51 PM
Trump is claiming that family separation is a democrat policy.
What a cnut
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 18, 2018, 09:00:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 18, 2018, 08:57:51 PM
Trump is claiming that family separation is a democrat policy.
What a cnut

I thought the bible told them to do it... oh and also it's not true!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on June 18, 2018, 10:22:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2018, 07:05:01 PM
Someone's going to have to explain to me why the Iran deal was a bad one and why this is a good one.

Obama did the first one, Trump did the second one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 07:56:44 PM
The US withdrawing from the UN Human Rights Council.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 19, 2018, 09:34:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?
WTF Whitey. Can't you stop parroting Fox n Friends for this ?

This will haunt the GOP in the mid terms. Women especially will turn away

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/19/child-separation-camps-trump-border-policy-backlash-republicans
In Mexico, less than a fortnight away from a presidential election, politicians lined up to denounce the separations. Candidate Ricardo Anaya said the treatment of children recalled "terrifying images" of Nazis separating mothers from their children. His rival, José Antonio Meade, denounced an unacceptable "horror".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 19, 2018, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Don't tell me. Rush Limbaugh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 19, 2018, 09:49:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

"I'm not racist, but..."

"I'm not defending Trump, but..."

Funny how there's always a 'but.'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:53:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 19, 2018, 09:49:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

"I'm not racist, but..."

"I'm not defending Trump, but..."

Funny how there's always a 'but.'

Ah.......the old, "if you dont agree with us youre a rascist ploy". 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:00:47 PM
A ten year old girl with down syndrome was seperated from her mother and brother. A man asked a judge about his son and the judge said he wasn't aware he had a child. Some officials have admitted that some kids will be lost in the system and may never see their parents again. They're being kept in cages or as Republicans have called them steel enclosures with chain link. I have two young boys and the thought of this ever happening would kill me. This is America a global superpower not some two bit poor nation with an Army General in charge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be

What about the audio that's emerged?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be

What about the audio that's emerged?
From what I've seen and read that's real (but unverified)

But Does screaming and crying absolve their parents from obeying federal immigration law

The law needs to be fixed and Trump is crazy like a fox....he's painting them into a corner to come up with a solution

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 19, 2018, 10:23:46 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:00:47 PM
A ten year old girl with down syndrome was seperated from her mother and brother. A man asked a judge about his son and the judge said he wasn't aware he had a child. Some officials have admitted that some kids will be lost in the system and may never see their parents again. They're being kept in cages or as Republicans have called them steel enclosures with chain link. I have two young boys and the thought of this ever happening would kill me. This is America a global superpower not some two bit poor nation with an Army General in charge.

The big picture on this is the declining white population percentage in the US.
Jefferson Beauregard Sessions is a neoconfederate white supremacist and the attorney general. 
The GOP won the white South after the Dems introduced civil rights in 1968.
The GOP is a white party. The GOP will go down fighting for white power.
Whitey is presumably no coincidence. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 19, 2018, 10:28:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:17:30 PM


The law needs to be fixed and Trump is crazy like a fox....he's painting them into a corner to come up with a solution
I think you mean "Fox is crazy like Trump".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2018, 10:32:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be

No you don't.

The administration is openly promoting this horror as an active deterrent at the same time they're ludicrously trying to pin the blame on the Democrats, so any "cynicism" on your part is baseless, dishonest and willful ignorance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:35:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be

What about the audio that's emerged?
From what I've seen and read that's real (but unverified)

But Does screaming and crying absolve their parents from obeying federal immigration law

The law needs to be fixed and Trump is crazy like a fox....he's painting them into a corner to come up with a solution

If they're seeking asylum then they're not breaking a law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2018, 10:38:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be

What about the audio that's emerged?
From what I've seen and read that's real (but unverified)

But Does screaming and crying absolve their parents from obeying federal immigration law

The law needs to be fixed and Trump is crazy like a fox....he's painting them into a corner to come up with a solution

Translation:

Trump and Stephen Miller are actively and intentionally traumatizing and devastating the lives of desperate and poor children and parents to use them to try to blackmail the Democrats into funding his Mexican border wall.

Apparently this is all right in the minds of whitey and the majority of the American right. Means to an end and all that.

Except it seems Trump didn't forsee the backlash which is developing by the hour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 19, 2018, 10:51:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:17:30 PM

But Does screaming and crying absolve their parents from obeying federal immigration law


Sweet Jesus. What is happening? Are people seriously coming out with this evil BS?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 19, 2018, 11:01:35 PM
 CNN Politics‏@CNNPolitics 

President Trump: "I don't want children taken away from parents. And when you prosecute the parents for coming in illegally, which should happen, you have to take the children away"

The Wall Street Journal's editorial page, known for regularly adopting conservative positions, called the practice "morally unacceptable and politically unsustainable."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/19/trump-family-separations-talking-points-653307
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2018, 11:26:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 19, 2018, 11:01:35 PM
CNN Politics‏@CNNPolitics 

President Trump: "I don't want children taken away from parents. And when you prosecute the parents for coming in illegally, which should happen, you have to take the children away"

The Wall Street Journal's editorial page, known for regularly adopting conservative positions, called the practice "morally unacceptable and politically unsustainable."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/19/trump-family-separations-talking-points-653307

Trump apparently thinks that most people are too stupid to come to the school kid-level conclusion that he is full of shit and that there is in fact a lot of middle ground between completely open borders and ripping apart and separately imprisoning parents and children.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 19, 2018, 11:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 11:26:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 19, 2018, 11:01:35 PM
CNN Politics‏@CNNPolitics 

President Trump: "I don't want children taken away from parents. And when you prosecute the parents for coming in illegally, which should happen, you have to take the children away"

The Wall Street Journal's editorial page, known for regularly adopting conservative positions, called the practice "morally unacceptable and politically unsustainable."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/19/trump-family-separations-talking-points-653307

Trump apparently thinks that most people are too stupid to come to the school kid-level conclusion that he is full of shit and that there is in fact a lot of middle ground between completely open borders and ripping apart and separately imprisoning parents and children.
Stephen Miller seems to be driving it.
The GOP will be hammered at the polls. Hurting kids is not a noted vote winner.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 19, 2018, 11:43:41 PM
Trump said today that immigrants are "infesting" the US.

That's the sort of language that's straight out of Nazi Germany.

And by design, too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 19, 2018, 11:45:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2018, 11:43:41 PM
Trump said today that immigrants are "infesting" the US.

That's the sort of language that's straight out of Nazi Germany.

And by design, too.
Summertime is Nazi time for Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 19, 2018, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be


You have indeed - the fact that you're a c**t.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2018, 11:53:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2018, 11:43:41 PM
Trump said today that immigrants are "infesting" the US.

That's the sort of language that's straight out of Nazi Germany.

And by design, too.

Meanwhile, farmers all over the country are struggling to plant and harvest their crops due to severe labour shortages.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 20, 2018, 12:01:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2018, 11:43:41 PM
Trump said today that immigrants are "infesting" the US.

That's the sort of language that's straight out of Nazi Germany.

And by design, too.

Like his grandfather.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:14:53 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:35:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be

What about the audio that's emerged?
From what I've seen and read that's real (but unverified)

But Does screaming and crying absolve their parents from obeying federal immigration law

The law needs to be fixed and Trump is crazy like a fox....he's painting them into a corner to come up with a solution

If they're seeking asylum then they're not breaking a law.

Yes they are.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:20:55 AM
Quote from: Hardy on June 19, 2018, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be


You have indeed - the fact that you're a c**t.

Play with he ball...not the man. 

I've been listening to all this other bvllshit for a month and it's right out of the Democratic playbook.

Now on the third go around they've found something that's sticking....but that's politics isn't it....nice distraction from the IG report into the FBI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on June 20, 2018, 03:26:56 AM
Dahlia Lithwick unmuddies the waters of Trump doublespeak.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/how-the-trump-administration-is-defending-its-indefensible-child-separation-policy.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 03:52:10 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 20, 2018, 03:26:56 AM
Dahlia Lithwick unmuddies the waters of Trump doublespeak.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/how-the-trump-administration-is-defending-its-indefensible-child-separation-policy.html
Trump reminds me of the baddies in Scooby Do. Great article.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 04:37:07 AM
Tyler Q. Houlton

@SpoxDHS

While having a work dinner tonight, the Secretary and her staff heard from a small group of protestors who share her concern with our current immigration laws that have created a crisis on our southern border.




Polly Sigh

@dcpoll

·

37m

Replying to @SpoxDHS

LIAR. Apparently you didn't realize there was video of a restaurant full of people screaming, "Shame Shame Shame!!" at @SecNielsen for her lies about and enforcement of Trump's barbaric policy of kidnapping & torturing migrant children and babies. #Maddow

 https://mobile.twitter.com/dcpoll/status/1009268279855255552/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 20, 2018, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:20:55 AM
Quote from: Hardy on June 19, 2018, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be


You have indeed - the fact that you're a c**t.

Play with he ball...not the man. 

I've been listening to all this other bvllshit for a month and it's right out of the Democratic playbook.

Now on the third go around they've found something that's sticking....but that's politics isn't it....nice distraction from the IG report into the FBI

I'm not playing the man. I'm playing a c**t. It's an ugly word that I wouldn't generally use. But an ugly word is necessary in the context of the ugliness that's going on.

At this moment, children, toddlers and babies are crying in cages in Texas while being mocked by their captors. They probably assume they will never see their parents again. In many, if not most cases, it seems they're right. And this is all taking place for a political purpose.

There's probably a word that won't come to me for someone who condones that. But you know how horrific it is and you know it can't be condoned. Anyone who knows that and so prefers to pretend they believe it's not happening is a c**t.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 07:59:01 AM
Whitey is named after a criminal so it's hardly a surprise that he's a fervent supporter of the criminal in the White House.

Criminally shit is an apt description of his posts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 20, 2018, 08:04:38 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 07:56:44 PM
The US withdrawing from the UN Human Rights Council.

It took less than a year and a half to turn the US into a pariah state.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 20, 2018, 08:27:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:14:53 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:35:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 19, 2018, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Brings a tear to your eye, the nobility of this administration and the right wing. Apparently a majority of Republicans support ripping toddlers away from their mothers at the border. Christianity... family values... pro-life... morals...

But then those poor people aren't really humans... just criminals and statistics.

I read or heard somewhere that Out of 12,000 minors currently in federal custody only 2000 crossed the border with a parent or legal guardian. The remainder crossed with someone else

There's a huge problem with human trafficking and bvllshit asylum claims on the Southern Border and something needs to be done about it

As unpalatable as the current situation is, maybe this will prompt congress to act

Come on, don't you have kids? There's no rationalizing this. They're purposely targeting families as a deterrent, whether or not they approach as asylum seekers. They're using small kids as political bargaining chips as well to try to blackmail Democrats. This is all openly and proudly expressed. Pure evil. How anyone who has a child could even begin to sympathize with what they're doing is beyond me.

We all know Trump himself is bereft of compassion and empathy, but how do the rest of them sleep at night?

Im not sympathizing, but the media are being very dishonest in their coverage of this. It all kicked off with some photos circulating a few weeks ago that  were actually taken taken during the OBAMA administration

Vast majority of kids in federal custody have not come with their parents or guardians....they have come with someone else

Do you not think thats a huge problem?

You're not sympathizing, but as f**king usual, your bigger problem is with the media or the Democrats rather than the appalling (and in this case downright callous and evil) conduct and policies of Trump and his minions. Unbelievable.

And the unaccompanied kids is a separate issue which wrenching crying children away from their devastated parents is going to do NOTHING to solve.

The rats are leaving the Trump ship on this issue by the hour, but you go ahead and hang in there with him whitey. Some liberal somewhere said or did something somewhere which will balance it out in your mind I'm sure.



It started a few weeks ago as all the migrant children the Trump administration supposedly  "lost"

When that didnt get any traction (because it was all bvllshit)  they regurgitated the pictures from the OBAMA Administrations of the youth detention centers and tried to pin that on Trump

Now theyre onto this, and they're getting some traction.

So please, please forgive me for being cynical, but I have very good cause to be

What about the audio that's emerged?
From what I've seen and read that's real (but unverified)

But Does screaming and crying absolve their parents from obeying federal immigration law

The law needs to be fixed and Trump is crazy like a fox....he's painting them into a corner to come up with a solution

If they're seeking asylum then they're not breaking a law.

Yes they are.....

At most as commentators have said it's a federal misdemeanor. Usually a slap on wrist and 500 dollar fine. Not ripping kids from parents. One of Trump's campaign managers made a womp womp sound when he heard about a ten year old down syndrome child being took from her parents. Words fail me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 20, 2018, 09:10:01 AM
Turns out the father of the ten year old down syndrome girl is a legal American citizen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on June 20, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
History has shown that fascism starts slowly. It's the political oppositions fault, the migrants fault, it's the poor, the sub classes.
America the land of the free, the home of the brave. It's become the land of the imprisoned, the land of the cowards.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 20, 2018, 10:44:00 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
History has shown that fascism starts slowly. It's the political oppositions fault, the migrants fault, it's the poor, the sub classes.
America the land of the free, the home of the brave. It's become the land of the imprisoned, the land of the cowards.

Exactly, but in America now it's not moving as slowly as it did, say, in Germany, Italy and Spain in the thirties or in Italy, Hungary and Poland today. It's accelerating appreciably now with the othering of all opponents, the rounding up of innocents, the cult of personality that has already seduced a cohort more devoted to the Idiot-King the more outrageous he gets, the fomenting of disputes with allies, the sidling up to like-minded demagogues, and the attacks on journalists and media. The classic process of building the pillars of the ultra right is in full swing now - promote unwarranted fear of almost randomly selected others, instil hatred of those others and present yourself and your ideology as the solution to those fears.

I sometimes fear that people might think that fascism arrives in fancy dress worn by grotesques and monsters as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis. Fascism arrives as your friend. It will restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood, remind you of how great you once were, clear out the venal and the corrupt, remove anything you feel is unlike you...It doesn't walk in saying, "Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."
  - Michael Rosen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 10:54:05 AM
https://youtu.be/Lc2l0pzv-Yg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 20, 2018, 10:44:00 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
History has shown that fascism starts slowly. It's the political oppositions fault, the migrants fault, it's the poor, the sub classes.
America the land of the free, the home of the brave. It's become the land of the imprisoned, the land of the cowards.

Exactly, but in America now it's not moving as slowly as it did, say, in Germany, Italy and Spain in the thirties or in Italy, Hungary and Poland today. It's accelerating appreciably now with the othering of all opponents, the rounding up of innocents, the cult of personality that has already seduced a cohort more devoted to the Idiot-King the more outrageous he gets, the fomenting of disputes with allies, the sidling up to like-minded demagogues, and the attacks on journalists and media. The classic process of building the pillars of the ultra right is in full swing now - promote unwarranted fear of almost randomly selected others, instil hatred of those others and present yourself and your ideology as the solution to those fears.

I sometimes fear that people might think that fascism arrives in fancy dress worn by grotesques and monsters as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis. Fascism arrives as your friend. It will restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood, remind you of how great you once were, clear out the venal and the corrupt, remove anything you feel is unlike you...It doesn't walk in saying, "Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."
  - Michael Rosen


You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker

Close to 90% of all minors currently in detention came across on their own or with someone other than a parent or legal guardian

How the hell can a border patrol agent even verify that a minor child with an adult (without any papers)  has any legitimate relationship with that child?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-patrol-dna-20180508-htmlstory.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 20, 2018, 12:23:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 20, 2018, 10:44:00 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
History has shown that fascism starts slowly. It's the political oppositions fault, the migrants fault, it's the poor, the sub classes.
America the land of the free, the home of the brave. It's become the land of the imprisoned, the land of the cowards.

Exactly, but in America now it's not moving as slowly as it did, say, in Germany, Italy and Spain in the thirties or in Italy, Hungary and Poland today. It's accelerating appreciably now with the othering of all opponents, the rounding up of innocents, the cult of personality that has already seduced a cohort more devoted to the Idiot-King the more outrageous he gets, the fomenting of disputes with allies, the sidling up to like-minded demagogues, and the attacks on journalists and media. The classic process of building the pillars of the ultra right is in full swing now - promote unwarranted fear of almost randomly selected others, instil hatred of those others and present yourself and your ideology as the solution to those fears.

I sometimes fear that people might think that fascism arrives in fancy dress worn by grotesques and monsters as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis. Fascism arrives as your friend. It will restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood, remind you of how great you once were, clear out the venal and the corrupt, remove anything you feel is unlike you...It doesn't walk in saying, "Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."
  - Michael Rosen


You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker

Close to 90% of all minors currently in detention came across on their own or with someone other than a parent or legal guardian

How the hell can a border patrol agent even verify that a minor child with an adult (without any papers)  has any legitimate relationship with that child?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-patrol-dna-20180508-htmlstory.html


Carry on. You seem to be happy to accept the mantle of c**t. The only people who disagree with you are myself, the UNHCR, the UN refugee agency, the majority of EU heads of government and 65% of Americans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:30:42 PM
Haha-Believe whatever you want.


Let's see if the Democrats are serious about fixing the problem or if they're happy to continue using these people as pawns to hammer Trump

We have no fvckin idea who's crossing the border and that needs to end. A few years ago a "teenager" who was enrolled in school actually ended up being 25years old. Would you like your 12 year old daughter or son going to school with a 25 year old man who no one knows nothing about.

I know, I sure as hell wouldn't and if you think that's rascist, well good for you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:32:38 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 20, 2018, 12:23:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 20, 2018, 10:44:00 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
History has shown that fascism starts slowly. It's the political oppositions fault, the migrants fault, it's the poor, the sub classes.
America the land of the free, the home of the brave. It's become the land of the imprisoned, the land of the cowards.

Exactly, but in America now it's not moving as slowly as it did, say, in Germany, Italy and Spain in the thirties or in Italy, Hungary and Poland today. It's accelerating appreciably now with the othering of all opponents, the rounding up of innocents, the cult of personality that has already seduced a cohort more devoted to the Idiot-King the more outrageous he gets, the fomenting of disputes with allies, the sidling up to like-minded demagogues, and the attacks on journalists and media. The classic process of building the pillars of the ultra right is in full swing now - promote unwarranted fear of almost randomly selected others, instil hatred of those others and present yourself and your ideology as the solution to those fears.

I sometimes fear that people might think that fascism arrives in fancy dress worn by grotesques and monsters as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis. Fascism arrives as your friend. It will restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood, remind you of how great you once were, clear out the venal and the corrupt, remove anything you feel is unlike you...It doesn't walk in saying, "Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."
  - Michael Rosen


You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker

Close to 90% of all minors currently in detention came across on their own or with someone other than a parent or legal guardian

How the hell can a border patrol agent even verify that a minor child with an adult (without any papers)  has any legitimate relationship with that child?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-patrol-dna-20180508-htmlstory.html


Carry on. You seem to be happy to accept the mantle of c**t. The only people who disagree with you are myself, the UNHCR, the UN refugee agency, the majority of EU heads of government and 65% of Americans.
You forgot to put the word "racist" in front of "c**t".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 20, 2018, 12:38:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:30:42 PM
Haha-Believe whatever you want.


Let's see if the Democrats are serious about fixing the problem or if they're happy to continue using these people as pawns to hammer Trump

We have no fvckin idea who's crossing the border and that needs to end. A few years ago a "teenager" who was enrolled in school actually ended up being 25years old. Would you like your 12 year old daughter or son going to school with a 25 year old man who no one knows nothing about.

I know, I sure as hell wouldn't and if you think that's rascist, well good for you

I'm pretty sure you've got this the wrong way round . . . it's the Whitehouse policy to do this so obviously they're looking for something in return from the Dems to make it stop!!

But the GOP control the Whitehouse and Congress so all the shit they're getting is more than well deserved!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 20, 2018, 01:14:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times

What a tremendously exciting life you have
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on June 20, 2018, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times
;D ;D Ah jesus, who knew The Donald was a poster on here, and a Mayo fan to boot  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 01:27:54 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 20, 2018, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times
;D ;D Ah jesus, who knew The Donald was a poster on here, and a Mayo fan to boot  ;D

Haha....I knew you guys would appreciate that comment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2018, 02:00:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:30:42 PM
Haha-Believe whatever you want.


Let's see if the Democrats are serious about fixing the problem or if they're happy to continue using these people as pawns to hammer Trump

We have no fvckin idea who's crossing the border and that needs to end. A few years ago a "teenager" who was enrolled in school actually ended up being 25years old. Would you like your 12 year old daughter or son going to school with a 25 year old man who no one knows nothing about.

I know, I sure as hell wouldn't and if you think that's rascist, well good for you

And you still can't condemn tearing young kids away from their mother. Given that you are fond of the anecdote, there are stories going around about parents showing up with papers, handing them over to the CBP, only to then be passed on to ICE, who say tough shit, we are taking your kids away because you don't have your papers. Or the breast feeding woman. Or the Down Syndrome kid...

But the obvious default should be that a young child and mother being traumatically separated is most probably a legitimate parent-child relationship and if they must be detained then it should be as a family. The whole segregation policy is, as Sessions says, designed to intimidate people into not coming. It is all about numbers and being seen to be tough. They don't give a shit about the humanity and dignity of the actual people.

Assuming you have kids yourself I cannot fathom how you cannot empathize with what these people, especially the kids, must be going through. I have a six and a four year old - my four year old gets distraught if she is left in the car for ten seconds on her own. These kids end up in cages (sorry, chicken wire-enclosed rooms) with no prospect of when they'll see their parents.

As for lecturing us on your knowledge and our apparent brainwashing by the liberal media, you are beyond even Ted Cruz and Franklin Graham on this issue (Ted f**king Cruz is the voice of reason!!). You're in Ann Coulter/Fox News/Breitbart territory.

As for the Democrats, they were all ready to work with Trump for a deal including DACA until he blew the whole thing up (remember Trump gushing about Chuck and Nancy?). They passed a bill in 2013 which wasn't even brought up for a vote in the House. Obama would have signed it. The Dems would have worked with Bush in the mid2000s, but the Fox News/talk radio crowd blew the GOP efforts up over "amnesty". The GOP kicked and screamed when Obama introduced DACA, a very reasonable and pragmatic policy to deal with a real and present human problem.

So spare us your bullshit over the Dems and look at your own f**king side and the reality that a callous, sociopathic wannabe strongman who built his movement on scapegoating and fear mongering of minorities and immigrants has taken over the conservative movement ( because we know you're not a Republican) and is overseeing the abuse of poor families so he can use them to blackmail the opposition into giving him what he wants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times

No you don't. If you think putting children as young as 5 and 6 in a cage is the answer to the US immigration problem, you clearly don't understand any issues at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 20, 2018, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times

No you don't. If you think putting children as young as 5 and 6 in a cage is the answer to the US immigration problem, you clearly don't understand any issues at all.

5 or 6 .... try 3 months old
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:12:04 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 20, 2018, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times

No you don't. If you think putting children as young as 5 and 6 in a cage is the answer to the US immigration problem, you clearly don't understand any issues at all.

5 or 6 .... try 3 months old

That's truly shocking. God help them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:18:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 20, 2018, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times

No you don't. If you think putting children as young as 5 and 6 in a cage is the answer to the US immigration problem, you clearly don't understand any issues at all.

5 or 6 .... try 3 months old

Where was the outrage when Obama put unaccompanied minors in cages?????? 

The pictures are all over the internet, and the left actually had the nerve to try and blame it on Trump a couple of weeks ago.

It selective outrage at its best, but it does seem to be working for the Democrats

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:18:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 20, 2018, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times

No you don't. If you think putting children as young as 5 and 6 in a cage is the answer to the US immigration problem, you clearly don't understand any issues at all.

5 or 6 .... try 3 months old

Where was the outrage when Obama put unaccompanied minors in cages?????? 

The pictures are all over the internet, and the left actually had the nerve to try and blame it on Trump a couple of weeks ago.

It selective outrage at its best, but it does seem to be working for the Democrats

Evidence?

Because it's bullshit https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/fact-check-did-obama-administration-separate-families-n884856

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:25:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 20, 2018, 02:00:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:30:42 PM
Haha-Believe whatever you want.


Let's see if the Democrats are serious about fixing the problem or if they're happy to continue using these people as pawns to hammer Trump

We have no fvckin idea who's crossing the border and that needs to end. A few years ago a "teenager" who was enrolled in school actually ended up being 25years old. Would you like your 12 year old daughter or son going to school with a 25 year old man who no one knows nothing about.

I know, I sure as hell wouldn't and if you think that's rascist, well good for you

And you still can't condemn tearing young kids away from their mother. Given that you are fond of the anecdote, there are stories going around about parents showing up with papers, handing them over to the CBP, only to then be passed on to ICE, who say tough shit, we are taking your kids away because you don't have your papers. Or the breast feeding woman. Or the Down Syndrome kid...

But the obvious default should be that a young child and mother being traumatically separated is most probably a legitimate parent-child relationship and if they must be detained then it should be as a family. The whole segregation policy is, as Sessions says, designed to intimidate people into not coming. It is all about numbers and being seen to be tough. They don't give a shit about the humanity and dignity of the actual people.

Assuming you have kids yourself I cannot fathom how you cannot empathize with what these people, especially the kids, must be going through. I have a six and a four year old - my four year old gets distraught if she is left in the car for ten seconds on her own. These kids end up in cages (sorry, chicken wire-enclosed rooms) with no prospect of when they'll see their parents.

As for lecturing us on your knowledge and our apparent brainwashing by the liberal media, you are beyond even Ted Cruz and Franklin Graham on this issue (Ted f**king Cruz is the voice of reason!!). You're in Ann Coulter/Fox News/Breitbart territory.

As for the Democrats, they were all ready to work with Trump for a deal including DACA until he blew the whole thing up (remember Trump gushing about Chuck and Nancy?). They passed a bill in 2013 which wasn't even brought up for a vote in the House. Obama would have signed it. The Dems would have worked with Bush in the mid2000s, but the Fox News/talk radio crowd blew the GOP efforts up over "amnesty". The GOP kicked and screamed when Obama introduced DACA, a very reasonable and pragmatic policy to deal with a real and present human problem.

So spare us your bullshit over the Dems and look at your own f**king side and the reality that a callous, sociopathic wannabe strongman who built his movement on scapegoating and fear mongering of minorities and immigrants has taken over the conservative movement ( because we know you're not a Republican) and is overseeing the abuse of poor families so he can use them to blackmail the opposition into giving him what he wants.

Who said I didnt sympathize.....all Im saying is that theres more to this than the media would let you believe. They ran with the Trump has lost 1500 children bvllshit a few weeks ago. Then they moved on to the kids in cages scandal.....which ended up having happened under Obamas watch.....now theyre onto this. See how the narrative has changed in a couple of weeks......read the LA Tomes link I posted earlier

There may be very good reasons to separate SOME "families" if theres reasonable suspicion that the kids are being trafficked. Legitimate family units should NOT be separated

Do you think all these people have spanking new passports and veirifable identification when they reach the border

But of course, if I dont agree with every nuance and caveat thats being doled out Im a rascist, know nothing cvnt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:26:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:18:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 20, 2018, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times

No you don't. If you think putting children as young as 5 and 6 in a cage is the answer to the US immigration problem, you clearly don't understand any issues at all.

5 or 6 .... try 3 months old

Where was the outrage when Obama put unaccompanied minors in cages?????? 

The pictures are all over the internet, and the left actually had the nerve to try and blame it on Trump a couple of weeks ago.

It selective outrage at its best, but it does seem to be working for the Democrats

Evidence?

Because it's bullshit https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/fact-check-did-obama-administration-separate-families-n884856

2 separate topics....I never said he separated families....I said he put unaccompanied minors in cages, but thats the left for you. Keep firing $hit at everyone else, ignoring your own dirty laundry

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2018, 02:28:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:18:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 20, 2018, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 20, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:05:28 PM

You guys are swallowing all  the propaganda hook line and sinker
Says the most gullible sheep on the forum. Lolzers.

I was right on Trump, I was right on Brexit.....the left wing media are feeding you nonsense and you're gullible enough to believe it

But Believe whatever you want....I spend about 6 hours a day in the car listening to political shows....split evenly between right and left leaning. Then I do more research when I go home

I have a tremendous grasp of the issues....far beyond the sheeple on here who regurgitate whatever they hear on CNN or read in the NY Times

No you don't. If you think putting children as young as 5 and 6 in a cage is the answer to the US immigration problem, you clearly don't understand any issues at all.

5 or 6 .... try 3 months old

Where was the outrage when Obama put unaccompanied minors in cages?????? 

The pictures are all over the internet, and the left actually had the nerve to try and blame it on Trump a couple of weeks ago.

It selective outrage at its best, but it does seem to be working for the Democrats

Now you are just being dishonest.

The primary issue here is the separation and segregation of families.

And as usual, all you really care about is that the Dems aren't getting the blame.

Slam Obama and his admin over cages, by all means, but it also means you will finally have to have the decency to condemn Trumps use of them to house young kids who have just been brutally separated from their families.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 20, 2018, 02:37:20 PM
The right seem infatuated with Clinton & Obama still . . . get over it they're not in charge anymore you are!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2018, 02:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:25:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 20, 2018, 02:00:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 12:30:42 PM
Haha-Believe whatever you want.


Let's see if the Democrats are serious about fixing the problem or if they're happy to continue using these people as pawns to hammer Trump

We have no fvckin idea who's crossing the border and that needs to end. A few years ago a "teenager" who was enrolled in school actually ended up being 25years old. Would you like your 12 year old daughter or son going to school with a 25 year old man who no one knows nothing about.

I know, I sure as hell wouldn't and if you think that's rascist, well good for you

And you still can't condemn tearing young kids away from their mother. Given that you are fond of the anecdote, there are stories going around about parents showing up with papers, handing them over to the CBP, only to then be passed on to ICE, who say tough shit, we are taking your kids away because you don't have your papers. Or the breast feeding woman. Or the Down Syndrome kid...

But the obvious default should be that a young child and mother being traumatically separated is most probably a legitimate parent-child relationship and if they must be detained then it should be as a family. The whole segregation policy is, as Sessions says, designed to intimidate people into not coming. It is all about numbers and being seen to be tough. They don't give a shit about the humanity and dignity of the actual people.

Assuming you have kids yourself I cannot fathom how you cannot empathize with what these people, especially the kids, must be going through. I have a six and a four year old - my four year old gets distraught if she is left in the car for ten seconds on her own. These kids end up in cages (sorry, chicken wire-enclosed rooms) with no prospect of when they'll see their parents.

As for lecturing us on your knowledge and our apparent brainwashing by the liberal media, you are beyond even Ted Cruz and Franklin Graham on this issue (Ted f**king Cruz is the voice of reason!!). You're in Ann Coulter/Fox News/Breitbart territory.

As for the Democrats, they were all ready to work with Trump for a deal including DACA until he blew the whole thing up (remember Trump gushing about Chuck and Nancy?). They passed a bill in 2013 which wasn't even brought up for a vote in the House. Obama would have signed it. The Dems would have worked with Bush in the mid2000s, but the Fox News/talk radio crowd blew the GOP efforts up over "amnesty". The GOP kicked and screamed when Obama introduced DACA, a very reasonable and pragmatic policy to deal with a real and present human problem.

So spare us your bullshit over the Dems and look at your own f**king side and the reality that a callous, sociopathic wannabe strongman who built his movement on scapegoating and fear mongering of minorities and immigrants has taken over the conservative movement ( because we know you're not a Republican) and is overseeing the abuse of poor families so he can use them to blackmail the opposition into giving him what he wants.

Who said I didnt sympathize.....all Im saying is that theres more to this than the media would let you believe. They ran with the Trump has lost 1500 children bvllshit a few weeks ago. Then they moved on to the kids in cages scandal.....which ended up having happened under Obamas watch.....now theyre onto this. See how the narrative has changed in a couple of weeks......read the LA Tomes link I posted earlier

There may be very good reasons to separate SOME "families" if theres reasonable suspicion that the kids are being trafficked. Legitimate family units should NOT be separated

Do you think all these people have spanking new passports and veirifable identification when they reach the border

But of course, if I dont agree with every nuance and caveat thats being doled out Im a rascist, know nothing cvnt

You haven't said you sympathize.

All you are doing to furiously trying to change the subject and trying to draw a false equivalency between this active policy which is impacting so many lives and a wires-crossed story a month ago which conflated the current outrage with the government losing track of other kids. As if that f**k-up somehow made it all ok and gave Trump full license to do what he wanted to these families.

And legitimate families ARE being separated. That's the whole f**king point. If you're in doubt, default to legitimate unless there is a valid reason to suspect otherwise. You can always monitor, examine them given that they'll be in custody. Kids, especially young ones, are brutally honest.

But Trump is forcing EVERYONE to be separated so that others will be too scared to come. It's all a numbers game. These people are dehumanized in his eyes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:55:34 PM
There are hundreds of millions of people living in third world conditions in countries that share either a direct or indirect land border with the US. Do you think he should encourage or discourage people from these count to come here illegally?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 02:58:34 PM
Whitey has reached his Aughrim on this.

Trump and Coulter are well into Nazi territory. Trump for saying the US was infested with immigrants. Coulter for saying the kids were child actors.

Meanwhile Fox News host Laura Ingraham described the detention centers in which the children were housed "as essentially summer camps"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 20, 2018, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 02:58:34 PM
Whitey has reached his Aughrim on this.

Trump and Coulter are well into Nazi territory. Trump for saying the US was infested with immigrants. Coulter for saying the kids were child actors.

Meanwhile Fox News host Laura Ingraham described the detention centers in which the children were housed "as essentially summer camps"
Whitey fancies himself as a bit of a Goebbels.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 20, 2018, 03:11:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:55:34 PM
There are hundreds of millions of people living in third world conditions in countries that share either a direct or indirect land border with the US. Do you think he should encourage or discourage people from these count to come here illegally?

Illegal immigration should be deterred but not by separating kids from their families, there are many other means to do it!!

There you go a simple answer to a simple question be careful your brain doesn't explode because it's not something you've been able to do yourself previously!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2018, 03:37:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:55:34 PM
There are hundreds of millions of people living in third world conditions in countries that share either a direct or indirect land border with the US. Do you think he should encourage or discourage people from these count to come here illegally?

You pose that question as if anything short of ripping breastfeeding babies and young kids away from their parents and segregating them in detention centers is encouraging illegal immigration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 20, 2018, 03:52:21 PM
There may be a shred of hope in this. This may be the issue that opens a number of eyes that were willfully closed to the jackboot tactics of Trump as prompted by Bannon/Mercer before and the poisonous ideologue Miller now.

If the deluded base start to see the Idiot Emperor's naked buttocks on this, it will be easier for them to see through him on other issues. And it is also the issue that seems to be an outrage too far even for elected Republicans, with Rep. governors recalling their national Guard units from border duties.

It only takes a proportion of those less blinkered than Whitey to see the light to put an end to be put to this nightmare an give a chance for America to take a good look at itself and where dog whistle, ultra-polarised politics is taking it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 04:07:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 20, 2018, 03:11:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:55:34 PM
There are hundreds of millions of people living in third world conditions in countries that share either a direct or indirect land border with the US. Do you think he should encourage or discourage people from these count to come here illegally?

Illegal immigration should be deterred but not by separating kids from their families, there are many other means to do it!!

There you go a simple answer to a simple question be careful your brain doesn't explode because it's not something you've been able to do yourself previously!!

Did I ever say I agreed with it....quite the opposite

What Im saying, and you can agree or disagree with me, is that the media struck out on their first two attempts to hammer Trump on immigration. This one is working because tecnhically Obama didnt do this.

If I understand correctly (and feel free to correct me), Obama modified an existing law, so that these families either need to be released or separated. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure out which option Trump is going to take

Obama put kids in cages and he "lost" kids, but no outrage over that for the past eight years.....wonder why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2018, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 04:07:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 20, 2018, 03:11:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 02:55:34 PM
There are hundreds of millions of people living in third world conditions in countries that share either a direct or indirect land border with the US. Do you think he should encourage or discourage people from these count to come here illegally?

Illegal immigration should be deterred but not by separating kids from their families, there are many other means to do it!!

There you go a simple answer to a simple question be careful your brain doesn't explode because it's not something you've been able to do yourself previously!!

Did I ever say I agreed with it....quite the opposite

What Im saying, and you can agree or disagree with me, is that the media struck out on their first two attempts to hammer Trump on immigration. This one is working because tecnhically Obama didnt do this.

If I understand correctly (and feel free to correct me), Obama modified an existing law, so that these families either need to be released or separated. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure out which option Trump is going to take

Obama put kids in cages and he "lost" kids, but no outrage over that for the past eight years.....wonder why?

What part of ripping toddlers and babies from their mothers do you not understand??

There's no "technically" here. Obama DIDN'T do it.

This has nothing to do with Obama. This has enraged people because most people are at least somewhat empathetic and horrified by the thought of having their kids taken away.

You know, they can put themselves on those people's shoes.

Obama, like most presidents, has some level of morality and ethics. Trump does not.

IF Obama had done it, there would be massive outrage, and justifiably so.

This is not a political matter for most people. It's a moral matter.

That anyone would defend or resort to whataboutery to downplay it is a f**king disgrace.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armamike on June 20, 2018, 04:32:37 PM
Shameful behaviour from Trump and the US.  How can the US lecture other countries on human rights when this stuff is going on in their backyard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2018, 06:02:15 PM
Well, headlines say he is going to sign an order to stop splitting the families up.

I wonder who or what turned him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Itchy on June 20, 2018, 06:28:37 PM
Has Donald Trump seen the women from Iran. Looking atvthe world cup here and some beautiful women in the crowd. I'm sure he'd make peace with Iran in a flash if he was watching.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 20, 2018, 06:40:55 PM
If the Iranians were smart they'd send a hot female negotiator over and he'd re-join the Iran nuclear deal as quick as lightning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on June 20, 2018, 06:43:00 PM
I wonder did Trump let Whitey know before this U-turn?

It really is a problem for these Trump apologists - how much Nazi is too much Nazi?

And now Donald Trump is too much Nazi for ...Trump, Donald J!!!

Whitey left holding the swastika covered bag.

A lesson learned by many of his sub contractors...Donald is never left holding the bag.

Hilarious.

But not.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 09:06:41 PM
Read back..... I never said I agreed with the policy.  In fact I said I disagreed with it twice if not three times.

What I did say was that even though I disagreed with it, I understood why in some cases it made sense. Over 90 % of minors crossing the border do so without a family member ir legal guardians. If a bunch of people show up without papers or ID how the fvck is the border patrol agent supposed to know who's who.....read the LA Times link I posted earlier

I also said that twice in the past month the Left attempted to blame Trump for immigration policies that were actually initiated under Obama. Kids in cages and "lost" children

They struck out both times, but this time they found something equally or more abhorrent that was exclusive to Trump and it stuck.  The selective outrage is nauseating
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 09:45:59 PM
Whitey is a rhubarb version of Ann Coulter.

Meanwhile


https://mobile.twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1009484666339028992/photo/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 10:24:16 PM
@davidgura

One child's prescription cocktail included Latuda, Geodon, Olanzapine, Benztropin, Clonazepam, Divalproex, Duloxetine, and Guanfacine. (link: https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1009478741339369472)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 20, 2018, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 10:24:16 PM
@davidgura

One child's prescription cocktail included Latuda, Geodon, Olanzapine, Benztropin, Clonazepam, Divalproex, Duloxetine, and Guanfacine. (link: https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1009478741339369472)
has all this stuff just start happening in the last week ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2018, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2018, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 10:24:16 PM
@davidgura

One child's prescription cocktail included Latuda, Geodon, Olanzapine, Benztropin, Clonazepam, Divalproex, Duloxetine, and Guanfacine. (link: https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1009478741339369472)
has all this stuff just start happening in the last week ?

If it's true it started under Obama, so we probably won't see burning pitchforks on this one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on June 21, 2018, 12:25:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2018, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 10:24:16 PM
@davidgura

One child's prescription cocktail included Latuda, Geodon, Olanzapine, Benztropin, Clonazepam, Divalproex, Duloxetine, and Guanfacine. (link: https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1009478741339369472)
has all this stuff just start happening in the last week ?

If it's true it started under Obama, so we probably won't see burning pitchforks on this one

If its true?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Safer deleting your account and slipping off quietly Whitey, you've had a mare this last few days! The Big Orange guy hasn't helped you .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2018, 12:47:30 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on June 21, 2018, 12:25:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2018, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2018, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2018, 10:24:16 PM
@davidgura

One child's prescription cocktail included Latuda, Geodon, Olanzapine, Benztropin, Clonazepam, Divalproex, Duloxetine, and Guanfacine. (link: https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1009478741339369472)
has all this stuff just start happening in the last week ?

If it's true it started under Obama, so we probably won't see burning pitchforks on this one

If its true?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Safer deleting your account and slipping off quietly Whitey, you've had a mare this last few days! The Big Orange guy hasn't helped you .

Lol.....so do you believe everything you read on the internet?

I have had anything but a mare.....I think I argued my points quite well without resorting to calling people cvnts, fascists etc like some other posters.

My Facebook friends who are always out with the burning pitchforks started about a month ago with the "Trump lost 1500 kids" story.  When that didn't stick they then set their hair in fire about the "kids in cages"  outrage. When it was pointed out that those pictures occurred under Obama, they settled down again for a week or 2. Then it started up again this week with the current story

Because this could be pinned directly on Trump it gained traction, but please spare me the selective outrage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:43:19 AM
There was a segment on CBS world news ( not exactly a trump love fest), but they interviewed a poor woman from along the border, who was thinking of crossing  the border with her grandson , but now was afraid to in case they would be separated.
Reporter asked her why she was going to US , she replied, " the Cartels have killed the rest of my family and she was afraid to stay. "  is that also Trump's fault ?
I also think it is terrible separating families, but if folks believe that all the blame lies with Trump, they are off their rocker.
The liberal media in the US are scrambling right now for anything negative.
The economy is booming, unemployment is at 3.8% , ie, full employment
the FBI nonsense is coming to a head , and they need something to distract the American people about feeling good about themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on June 21, 2018, 03:17:56 AM
Whitey, since you spend hours upon hours upon hours listening to political shows before going home to do further research, and you don't read the New York Times, SPECIFICALLY from what sources DO you get your information?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 05:21:30 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:43:19 AM
There was a segment on CBS world news ( not exactly a trump love fest), but they interviewed a poor woman from along the border, who was thinking of crossing  the border with her grandson , but now was afraid to in case they would be separated.
Reporter asked her why she was going to US , she replied, " the Cartels have killed the rest of my family and she was afraid to stay. "  is that also Trump's fault ?
I also think it is terrible separating families, but if folks believe that all the blame lies with Trump, they are off their rocker.
The liberal media in the US are scrambling right now for anything negative.
The economy is booming, unemployment is at 3.8% , ie, full employment
the FBI nonsense is coming to a head , and they need something to distract the American people about feeling good about themselves.
There isn't full employment. the labor participation rate never recovered from 2008
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Most of the new jobs don't pay much either.
If the economy was booming the Fed wouldn't be in charge

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2018, 10:00:02 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:43:19 AM
There was a segment on CBS world news ( not exactly a trump love fest), but they interviewed a poor woman from along the border, who was thinking of crossing  the border with her grandson , but now was afraid to in case they would be separated.
Reporter asked her why she was going to US , she replied, " the Cartels have killed the rest of my family and she was afraid to stay. "  is that also Trump's fault ?
I also think it is terrible separating families, but if folks believe that all the blame lies with Trump, they are off their rocker.
The liberal media in the US are scrambling right now for anything negative.
The economy is booming, unemployment is at 3.8% , ie, full employment
the FBI nonsense is coming to a head , and they need something to distract the American people about feeling good about themselves.

The blame for Trump is for the vindictive, callous family separation policy. That was his decision. No one else's. Obama didn't do it, Dubya didn't do it, Reagan didn't do it.

And if you don't think this issue is newsworthy, that says a lot about you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 21, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
What I do find hilarious about all this is how all US media keeps saying that "this is not what America stands for". The constant need for Americans to proclaim themselves as a great country unique in its virtue.

It's the opposite. It's a country that was built on genocide, slavery, racism, bigotry and colonialism. It was built on an absolutely rotten past and has a rotten present. And yet it still keeps trying to fool itself that it wasn't and isn't.

The US should take a look at Germany, and learn to confront its past and admit to itself that the notion of "American exceptionalism", "unique American virtue", that it is a "shining city on the hill" is so much utter nonsense. It's national self-delusion on a grand scale.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 21, 2018, 11:45:46 AM
Manifest destiny, don't you know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on June 21, 2018, 12:24:35 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 21, 2018, 11:45:46 AM
Manifest destiny, don't you know.

Heading upward rather than westward now by the looks of things. Have just seen the video about the Space Force he wants. Genuinely had to check that it wasn't April Fool's.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 12:28:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 21, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
What I do find hilarious about all this is how all US media keeps saying that "this is not what America stands for". The constant need for Americans to proclaim themselves as a great country unique in its virtue.

It's the opposite. It's a country that was built on genocide, slavery, racism, bigotry and colonialism. It was built on an absolutely rotten past and has a rotten present. And yet it still keeps trying to fool itself that it wasn't and isn't.

The US should take a look at Germany, and learn to confront its past and admit to itself that the notion of "American exceptionalism", "unique American virtue", that it is a "shining city on the hill" is so much utter nonsense. It's national self-delusion on a grand scale.

"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. " Friedrich Nietzsche

In fairness the US has been better run in the past than it is now under the plutocracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2018, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 21, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
What I do find hilarious about all this is how all US media keeps saying that "this is not what America stands for". The constant need for Americans to proclaim themselves as a great country unique in its virtue.

It's the opposite. It's a country that was built on genocide, slavery, racism, bigotry and colonialism. It was built on an absolutely rotten past and has a rotten present. And yet it still keeps trying to fool itself that it wasn't and isn't.

The US should take a look at Germany, and learn to confront its past and admit to itself that the notion of "American exceptionalism", "unique American virtue", that it is a "shining city on the hill" is so much utter nonsense. It's national self-delusion on a grand scale.

Americans aren't oblivious to the darker side of its past (and present). Liberals are constantly mocked by the right for "white guilt" and a whole movement is in progress on parts of the right to try to get a more pro-America or America-right-or-wrong version of history into schools, with curricula coming out of places like Texas which attempt to downplay the role and horrors of slavery and the Native American genocide and dispossession and so on (similar to their attempts to corrupt science teaching). And I'm sure you remember the right getting apoplectic over Obama's "apology tour" after he took office, when he committed what they perceived as the traitorous sin of acknowledging the US's poor choices and policies at times over the years.

The "we're America, bitch" (literal words from a White House official last week to describe the "Trump doctrine"!) element is definitely a dominant feature of, at least, the running of the country right now, but I think its correct to point out that, at least from an aspirational perspective, the cruelty and bigotryof the Trump administration, embodied in the separation and segregation of families, is NOT what America stands for and is partly why, for the first time, he was forced to back down in the face of the furious backlash.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 12:38:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2018, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 21, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
What I do find hilarious about all this is how all US media keeps saying that "this is not what America stands for". The constant need for Americans to proclaim themselves as a great country unique in its virtue.

It's the opposite. It's a country that was built on genocide, slavery, racism, bigotry and colonialism. It was built on an absolutely rotten past and has a rotten present. And yet it still keeps trying to fool itself that it wasn't and isn't.

The US should take a look at Germany, and learn to confront its past and admit to itself that the notion of "American exceptionalism", "unique American virtue", that it is a "shining city on the hill" is so much utter nonsense. It's national self-delusion on a grand scale.

Americans aren't oblivious to the darker side of its past (and present). Liberals are constantly mocked by the right for "white guilt" and a whole movement is in progress on parts of the right to try to get a more pro-America or America-right-or-wrong version of history into schools, with curricula coming out of places like Texas which attempt to downplay the role and horrors of slavery and the Native American genocide and dispossession and so on (similar to their attempts to corrupt science teaching). And I'm sure you remember the right getting apoplectic over Obama's "apology tour" after he took office, when he committed what they perceived as the traitorous sin of acknowledging the US's poor choices and policies at times over the years.

The "we're America, bitch" (literal words from a White House official last week to describe the "Trump doctrine"!) element is definitely a dominant feature of, at least, the running of the country right now, but I think its correct to point out that, at least from an aspirational perspective, the cruelty and bigotryof the Trump administration, embodied in the separation and segregation of families, is NOT what America stands for and is partly why, for the first time, he was forced to back down in the face of the furious backlash.
Jefferson Beauregard Sessions quoted a line from the Bible to justify the policy of family separation.   Back in the good ol days in Dixie it had been used to justify slavery. Sessions is as close to Confederate as can be. That is definitely a step backwards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 05:21:30 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:43:19 AM
There was a segment on CBS world news ( not exactly a trump love fest), but they interviewed a poor woman from along the border, who was thinking of crossing  the border with her grandson , but now was afraid to in case they would be separated.
Reporter asked her why she was going to US , she replied, " the Cartels have killed the rest of my family and she was afraid to stay. "  is that also Trump's fault ?
I also think it is terrible separating families, but if folks believe that all the blame lies with Trump, they are off their rocker.
The liberal media in the US are scrambling right now for anything negative.
The economy is booming, unemployment is at 3.8% , ie, full employment
the FBI nonsense is coming to a head , and they need something to distract the American people about feeling good about themselves.
There isn't full employment. the labor participation rate never recovered from 2008
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Most of the new jobs don't pay much either.
If the economy was booming the Fed wouldn't be in charge

Do you live in the US,
If not how can you be an expert on what new jobs pay. What do you define as not much.

I do not agree with everything Trump is doing, but I can tell you that the US economy is booming, main reasons;
Individual tax cuts, corporate tax cuts and a whole lot less regulation, all of which are encouraging businesses especially small ones to expand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2018, 02:28:18 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 05:21:30 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:43:19 AM
There was a segment on CBS world news ( not exactly a trump love fest), but they interviewed a poor woman from along the border, who was thinking of crossing  the border with her grandson , but now was afraid to in case they would be separated.
Reporter asked her why she was going to US , she replied, " the Cartels have killed the rest of my family and she was afraid to stay. "  is that also Trump's fault ?
I also think it is terrible separating families, but if folks believe that all the blame lies with Trump, they are off their rocker.
The liberal media in the US are scrambling right now for anything negative.
The economy is booming, unemployment is at 3.8% , ie, full employment
the FBI nonsense is coming to a head , and they need something to distract the American people about feeling good about themselves.
There isn't full employment. the labor participation rate never recovered from 2008
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Most of the new jobs don't pay much either.
If the economy was booming the Fed wouldn't be in charge

Do you live in the US,
If not how can you be an expert on what new jobs pay. What do you define as not much.

I do not agree with everything Trump is doing, but I can tell you that the US economy is booming, main reasons;
Individual tax cuts, corporate tax cuts and a whole lot less regulation, all of which are encouraging businesses especially small ones to expand.

Main reasons? It's all Trump and what he has done?

So how do you explain the GDP growth rates? Where are the Trump inflection points on these long terms trends?

(https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-states-gdp-growth.png?s=gdp+cqoq&v=201805301234v&d1=20080101&d2=20181231)
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth)

Unemployment trends
(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2008_2018_all_period_M05_data.gif)
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000)

Stock market
(https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/historical.png?s=INDU&v=20180620204000&d1=20080101&d2=20181231)
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/stock-market (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/stock-market)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 02:35:23 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 05:21:30 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:43:19 AM
There was a segment on CBS world news ( not exactly a trump love fest), but they interviewed a poor woman from along the border, who was thinking of crossing  the border with her grandson , but now was afraid to in case they would be separated.
Reporter asked her why she was going to US , she replied, " the Cartels have killed the rest of my family and she was afraid to stay. "  is that also Trump's fault ?
I also think it is terrible separating families, but if folks believe that all the blame lies with Trump, they are off their rocker.
The liberal media in the US are scrambling right now for anything negative.
The economy is booming, unemployment is at 3.8% , ie, full employment
the FBI nonsense is coming to a head , and they need something to distract the American people about feeling good about themselves.
There isn't full employment. the labor participation rate never recovered from 2008
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Most of the new jobs don't pay much either.
If the economy was booming the Fed wouldn't be in charge

Do you live in the US,
If not how can you be an expert on what new jobs pay. What do you define as not much.

I do not agree with everything Trump is doing, but I can tell you that the US economy is booming, main reasons;
Individual tax cuts, corporate tax cuts and a whole lot less regulation, all of which are encouraging businesses especially small ones to expand.
Median wages is a good place to start.
Look at where the new jobs are. Retail, healthcare, restaurants. Very few well paying industrial jobs.
Look at how well retail is doing.

For the 40% of Americans at the bottom of the pile gas price rises have wiped out the positive effect of the tax cuts. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 21, 2018, 02:36:19 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 05:21:30 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:43:19 AM
There was a segment on CBS world news ( not exactly a trump love fest), but they interviewed a poor woman from along the border, who was thinking of crossing  the border with her grandson , but now was afraid to in case they would be separated.
Reporter asked her why she was going to US , she replied, " the Cartels have killed the rest of my family and she was afraid to stay. "  is that also Trump's fault ?
I also think it is terrible separating families, but if folks believe that all the blame lies with Trump, they are off their rocker.
The liberal media in the US are scrambling right now for anything negative.
The economy is booming, unemployment is at 3.8% , ie, full employment
the FBI nonsense is coming to a head , and they need something to distract the American people about feeling good about themselves.
There isn't full employment. the labor participation rate never recovered from 2008
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000)

Most of the new jobs don't pay much either.
If the economy was booming the Fed wouldn't be in charge

Do you live in the US,
If not how can you be an expert on what new jobs pay. What do you define as not much.

I do not agree with everything Trump is doing, but I can tell you that the US economy is booming, main reasons;
Individual tax cuts, corporate tax cuts and a whole lot less regulation, all of which are encouraging businesses especially small ones to expand.


That's nothing to how the economy will boom when the wars start. And that's not even the trade wars I'm talking about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 02:38:58 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 21, 2018, 02:36:19 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2018, 05:21:30 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 21, 2018, 02:43:19 AM
There was a segment on CBS world news ( not exactly a trump love fest), but they interviewed a poor woman from along the border, who was thinking of crossing  the border with her grandson , but now was afraid to in case they would be separated.
Reporter asked her why she was going to US , she replied, " the Cartels have killed the rest of my family and she was afraid to stay. "  is that also Trump's fault ?
I also think it is terrible separating families, but if folks believe that all the blame lies with Trump, they are off their rocker.
The liberal media in the US are scrambling right now for anything negative.
The economy is booming, unemployment is at 3.8% , ie, full employment
the FBI nonsense is coming to a head , and they need something to distract the American people about feeling good about themselves.
There isn't full employment. the labor participation rate never recovered from 2008
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000)

Most of the new jobs don't pay much either.
If the economy was booming the Fed wouldn't be in charge

Do you live in the US,
If not how can you be an expert on what new jobs pay. What do you define as not much.

I do not agree with everything Trump is doing, but I can tell you that the US economy is booming, main reasons;
Individual tax cuts, corporate tax cuts and a whole lot less regulation, all of which are encouraging businesses especially small ones to expand.


That's nothing to how the economy will boom when the wars start. And that's not even the trade wars I'm talking about.
Every boom is followed by a banking crisis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on June 21, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
No answer to my question, whitey?  I really would like to know from what specific sources you get your information.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 21, 2018, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 21, 2018, 04:29:38 PMNo answer to my question, whitey?  I really would like to know from what specific sources you get your information.

Good luck getting an answer to that  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2018, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 21, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
No answer to my question, whitey?  I really would like to know from what specific sources you get your information.

Apologies, I've been on the road since 4:30 am and in back to back meetings all mornings.

It's very easy....if I hear something on CNN (or Patriot or Urban or MSNBC) while I'm driving in the car and I want to get the differing viewpoint I will then google the topic and WSJ/NY Times/The Hill/The Atlantic/Forbes/Bloomberg/WAPO etc.  Then I typically read about 4 articles-2 from each side of the argument and if I have the time I'll read the comments.

Oh....I also read books. So far this year I've read Bernies book, George H Bush's book of all his correspondence, Gamechange about Obamas election, Jimmy Carters autobiography
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 21, 2018, 07:08:26 PM
Never let on you hear him. He sits in the house all day watching Fox News. There's no other explanation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 21, 2018, 07:18:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 21, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
What I do find hilarious about all this is how all US media keeps saying that "this is not what America stands for". The constant need for Americans to proclaim themselves as a great country unique in its virtue.

It's the opposite. It's a country that was built on genocide, slavery, racism, bigotry and colonialism. It was built on an absolutely rotten past and has a rotten present. And yet it still keeps trying to fool itself that it wasn't and isn't.

The US should take a look at Germany, and learn to confront its past and admit to itself that the notion of "American exceptionalism", "unique American virtue", that it is a "shining city on the hill" is so much utter nonsense. It's national self-delusion on a grand scale.
have u ever been to the us ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2018, 08:26:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2018, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 21, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
No answer to my question, whitey?  I really would like to know from what specific sources you get your information.

Apologies, I've been on the road since 4:30 am and in back to back meetings all mornings.

It's very easy....if I hear something on CNN (or Patriot or Urban or MSNBC) while I'm driving in the car and I want to get the differing viewpoint I will then google the topic and WSJ/NY Times/The Hill/The Atlantic/Forbes/Bloomberg/WAPO etc.  Then I typically read about 4 articles-2 from each side of the argument and if I have the time I'll read the comments.

Oh....I also read books. So far this year I've read Bernies book, George H Bush's book of all his correspondence, Gamechange about Obamas election, Jimmy Carters autobiography

"Patriot" Radio.... :o


I can only imagine... ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2018, 09:05:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2018, 08:26:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 21, 2018, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 21, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
No answer to my question, whitey?  I really would like to know from what specific sources you get your information.

Apologies, I've been on the road since 4:30 am and in back to back meetings all mornings.

It's very easy....if I hear something on CNN (or Patriot or Urban or MSNBC) while I'm driving in the car and I want to get the differing viewpoint I will then google the topic and WSJ/NY Times/The Hill/The Atlantic/Forbes/Bloomberg/WAPO etc.  Then I typically read about 4 articles-2 from each side of the argument and if I have the time I'll read the comments.

Oh....I also read books. So far this year I've read Bernies book, George H Bush's book of all his correspondence, Gamechange about Obamas election, Jimmy Carters autobiography

"Patriot" Radio.... :o


I can only imagine... ;D

I listen to all sorts of people I disagree with....listen to Urban radio after a police shooting and you're in for an earful
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2018, 07:44:38 AM
Time for a bit of tennis with Whitey



@christinawilkie

The Red Cross says it's being denied access to federal detention centers where children separated from parents are being held. When other countries deny relief orgs access to detention centers, the United States used to employ every means available to change that policy. (link: https://twitter.com/redcross/status/1009481745186590721) twitter.com/redcross/statu...

https://youtu.be/N5K7Hcpi2vM

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-22/allegations-immigrant-children-in-texas-centre-forcibly-drugged/9898298

US Border Patrol video shows immigrant children locked in cages at Texas holding facility

ABC NEWS

The lawsuit details how one child was prescribed 10 different medications, including the antipsychotic drugs Latuda, Geodon and Olanzapine, the Parkinson's medication Benztropine, the seizure medications Clonazepam and Divalproex, the nerve pain medication and antidepressant Duloxetine, and the cognition enhancer Guanfacine.

"It is a surprising, perhaps even shocking finding and suggests that at least at this facility, at least insofar as the records which I reviewed, treatment is not complying with the ordinary guidelines," Dr Mills said.

"Medications like Olanzapine are appropriate for people who are psychotic, but they are not appropriate generally for treating agitation or misbehaviour."

Dr Mills said consent is usually required from parents or guardians before drugs are administered to children.

"There is no evidence that any kind of effort was made to obtain that consent," he said.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 24, 2018, 10:52:08 PM
https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/1010877835223994369?s=19

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2018, 11:26:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2018, 07:44:38 AM
Time for a bit of tennis with Whitey



@christinawilkie

The Red Cross says it's being denied access to federal detention centers where children separated from parents are being held. When other countries deny relief orgs access to detention centers, the United States used to employ every means available to change that policy. (link: https://twitter.com/redcross/status/1009481745186590721) twitter.com/redcross/statu...

https://youtu.be/N5K7Hcpi2vM

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-22/allegations-immigrant-children-in-texas-centre-forcibly-drugged/9898298

US Border Patrol video shows immigrant children locked in cages at Texas holding facility

ABC NEWS

The lawsuit details how one child was prescribed 10 different medications, including the antipsychotic drugs Latuda, Geodon and Olanzapine, the Parkinson's medication Benztropine, the seizure medications Clonazepam and Divalproex, the nerve pain medication and antidepressant Duloxetine, and the cognition enhancer Guanfacine.

"It is a surprising, perhaps even shocking finding and suggests that at least at this facility, at least insofar as the records which I reviewed, treatment is not complying with the ordinary guidelines," Dr Mills said.

"Medications like Olanzapine are appropriate for people who are psychotic, but they are not appropriate generally for treating agitation or misbehaviour."

Dr Mills said consent is usually required from parents or guardians before drugs are administered to children.

"There is no evidence that any kind of effort was made to obtain that consent," he said.

So the ABC article you quote is in reference to a 2008 lawsuit......8 years before Trump won the election and 10 years before the new policy was implemented.

The new lawsuit was filed within days of the new policy being implemented back in April, and from what I can read there was no actual evidence that it WAS happening, apart from the fact that it HAD happened under Obama (and probably Bush too)

And the Red Cross tweet states they CANT access the facilities, yet they have a picture of a facility......wonder if they borrowed that from (fake news) Time Magazine????

Its bad enough what Trump is doing, but the left isnt satisfied with that......they need to lump Obamas misdeeds on top for good measure.....http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/21/associated-press-child-abuse-obama-admin/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 25, 2018, 12:24:36 AM
My favourite part of the weekend was when FoxNews had a segment discussing Trump supporters (the right) being racist... (y'know because the left are all falsely labelling them this way and they're not).

The dude told the the black contributor he was "out of his cotton pickin mind".

But yeah they're not racist though 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on June 25, 2018, 12:28:24 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 25, 2018, 12:24:36 AM
My favourite part of the weekend was when FoxNews had a segment discussing Trump supporters (the right) being racist... (y'know because the left are all falsely labelling them this way and they're not).

The dude told the the black contributor he was "out of his cotton pickin mind".

But yeah they're not racist though 🤷‍♂️


My favorite one was the time magazine cover.
But, once more let's not let the truth get in the was of a "fake" story
Unreal
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2018, 03:58:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)

Part of the issue is that people are jumping on such stuff because Trump has demonstrated through word and action that he is capable of what he is being blamed for.

You are upset about the story that went around for a day or two about the child immigrants being lost in the system which turned out to be down to the foster parents avoiding the authorities. Well the reality turned out to be even worse, even if THAT particular story wasn't their fault. Turned out they were intentionally ripping young kids out of their parents hands and now they're going to have trouble reuniting them all.

But I agree. We shouldn't reflexively react to everything before it is properly verified. There is enough heinous, callous and destructive shit going down to focus on without clouding the issue with stuff that had to be retracted the next day.

But that's probably the way it is going to be from now on with social media, blanket shoutfests on cable news and the resulting hyperpartisanship. Obama went through plenty of it too, albeit much more undeservedly.

I'm actively avoiding the news these days. I commented on the kids thing last week because it was too appalling to ignore, but in general I don't want to spend my life upset over what that shitstain and his minions are wreaking on the country and the world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2018, 04:18:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)
What counts is what the administration does 
The Kochs are in charge

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/2/5/16966726/trump-show

"Like many American political journalists, I spent much of last week entranced by the drama surrounding Devin Nunes's memo about the origins of court-ordered surveillance of Carter Page. Then when the memo's text was finally revealed, I found myself surprised by what a pile of risible nonsense it was. And then I found myself moderately surprised that I'd been surprised about this — somehow suckered into believing for a minute that there was a shred of merit to this dog-and-pony show.

Meanwhile, Friday evening I got around to reading the Wall Street Journal's exhaustive review of FBI agent Peter Strzok's text message exchanges with government lawyer Lisa Page, which concluded there was no anti-Trump bias or conspiracy there after all.

When I caught up on the rest of my tabs from the week I noticed something else. There were a bunch of articles published recently about things happening in American politics that are making a real difference in actual people's lives. Stories that haven't attracted nearly as much discussion as the GOP's bad-faith pushback on Robert Mueller and the counter-pushback from Democrats, but that have the virtue of not being total nonsense. Stories that, frankly, paint a frightening picture of the direction in which the country is heading."

But a huge number of stories about things that have a real, concrete impact on people's lives came to light.

Ben Penn reported that Labor Department political appointees spiked an internal economic analysis of a new rule governing the handling of tips received by millions of workers in the food service industry. If the suppressed report is correct, the rule the Trump administration is promulgating could cost workers billions of dollars in lost income.The Centers for Disease Control reported that flu hospitalizations in the United States are taking place at a record pace, while Vox's own Sarah Kliff reported on how Congress's defunding of Community Health Centers is creating a crisis of health care access for 26 million Americans.In separate CDC news, Lena Sun of the Washington Post reported that CDC efforts to halt new outbreaks of exotic infectious diseases abroad are headed for an 80 percent cut.Kriston Capps reported for CityLab that the Department of Housing and Urban Development is considering new work requirements for recipients of public housing assistance, measures that would impose hardship on some of the most deprived people in the country.Separately, Rachel Cohen and Zaid Jilani of the Intercept reported on HUD consideration of proposals to raise rents for public housing users.Yet another HUD story has reporters from both the Washington Post and CNN uncovering considerable evidence that HUD Secretary Ben Carson's son, who does not work at HUD, is nonetheless intimately involved in HUD business mostly in ways designed to benefit himself personally.Mick Mulvaney, who is still serving as acting director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau while Trump fails to nominate anyone at all to fill the job on a permanent basis, stripped the CFPB's fair lending office of enforcement powers.Alan Rappeport of the New York Times reported that not only has the payday lending industry won a number of regulatory favors from the Trump administration, they'll be repaying the president personally by holding their annual retreat at the Trump Doral Golf Club.We had two significant train derailments, even as Trump revealed his infrastructure "plan" to be essentially a giant magic asterisk.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2018, 04:19:10 AM
@Laurie_Garrett

Stop whatever you're doing and read the @WhiteHouse plan for complete reorganization of the entire federal government. I have tweeted some highlights, but honestly can't begin to capture the horror. Overall, it privatizes a lot, cuts, & consolidates power. (link: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Government-Reform-and-Reorg-Plan.pdf)




Laurie Garrett

@Laurie_Garrett

·

Jun 22

Replying to @Laurie_Garrett

Under the Plan, the govt sells off the US Postal Service, FAA, eliminates more than a 1/3rd of the US Public Health Corps, restructures all foreign aid & development programs, and places every single domestic program for poor families & children under a single welfare authority.

249

4.7K

4.1K


Laurie Garrett

@Laurie_Garrett

·

Jun 22

The Plan also offers a real estate bonanza for developers, selling off federal properties en masse. And it cuts or restructures all the fedl progs that are meant to educate people about their financial rights & protect them from bank & mortgage fraud.

90

3.9K

3.6K


Laurie Garrett

@Laurie_Garrett

·

Jun 22

The #Trump plan cuts R&D @NASA and all forms of alternative energy development are consolidated under a single DOE agency. A Dept of Welfare is created, and all forms of support for health of America's poor leave @HHS & go to new Welfare authority.




Laurie Garrett

@Laurie_Garrett

·

Jun 22

Net impact of the #Trump govt reorg scheme is taking everything across govt that is for poor & needy people and consolidate it under single budgetary authority, cut science all over the place, eliminate the Census Bureau, reduce regulation &, as this closing shot shows, #MAGA .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2018, 08:08:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 03:58:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)

Part of the issue is that people are jumping on such stuff because Trump has demonstrated through word and action that he is capable of what he is being blamed for.

You are upset about the story that went around for a day or two about the child immigrants being lost in the system which turned out to be down to the foster parents avoiding the authorities. Well the reality turned out to be even worse, even if THAT particular story wasn't their fault. Turned out they were intentionally ripping young kids out of their parents hands and now they're going to have trouble reuniting them all.

But I agree. We shouldn't reflexively react to everything before it is properly verified. There is enough heinous, callous and destructive shit going down to focus on without clouding the issue with stuff that had to be retracted the next day.

But that's probably the way it is going to be from now on with social media, blanket shoutfests on cable news and the resulting hyperpartisanship. Obama went through plenty of it too, albeit much more undeservedly.

I'm actively avoiding the news these days. I commented on the kids thing last week because it was too appalling to ignore, but in general I don't want to spend my life upset over what that shitstain and his minions are wreaking on the country and the world.

I wouldnt say Im upset about the "lost children" story, Im simply pointing out the rank hypocrisy and selective outrage from those on the left. Terrible things happened under Obama but we didnt hear a bloody word about it, until they tried to pin it on Trump a few weeks ago

As terrible as the current situation is, one must question whether the Democrats really want a solution, or if they are enjoying all the political capital they are gaining from it.

From my reading of the situation, many Democrats seem to be flat out in favor of open borders.  That is not a position middle America is on board with, much like middle America is not on board with Trumps zero tolerance enforcement and splitting of families

Remember, you only need ONE of these parents who crosses with a kid to comit a murder for this enforcement policy to swing back in favor of Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 25, 2018, 09:47:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 08:08:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 03:58:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)

Part of the issue is that people are jumping on such stuff because Trump has demonstrated through word and action that he is capable of what he is being blamed for.

You are upset about the story that went around for a day or two about the child immigrants being lost in the system which turned out to be down to the foster parents avoiding the authorities. Well the reality turned out to be even worse, even if THAT particular story wasn't their fault. Turned out they were intentionally ripping young kids out of their parents hands and now they're going to have trouble reuniting them all.

But I agree. We shouldn't reflexively react to everything before it is properly verified. There is enough heinous, callous and destructive shit going down to focus on without clouding the issue with stuff that had to be retracted the next day.

But that's probably the way it is going to be from now on with social media, blanket shoutfests on cable news and the resulting hyperpartisanship. Obama went through plenty of it too, albeit much more undeservedly.

I'm actively avoiding the news these days. I commented on the kids thing last week because it was too appalling to ignore, but in general I don't want to spend my life upset over what that shitstain and his minions are wreaking on the country and the world.

I wouldnt say Im upset about the "lost children" story, Im simply pointing out the rank hypocrisy and selective outrage from those on the left. Terrible things happened under Obama but we didnt hear a bloody word about it, until they tried to pin it on Trump a few weeks ago

As terrible as the current situation is, one must question whether the Democrats really want a solution, or if they are enjoying all the political capital they are gaining from it.

From my reading of the situation, many Democrats seem to be flat out in favor of open borders.  That is not a position middle America is on board with, much like middle America is not on board with Trumps zero tolerance enforcement and splitting of families

Remember, you only need ONE of these parents who crosses with a kid to comit a murder for this enforcement policy to swing back in favor of Trump

OK I'll indulge this . . . who has said that and where did you get information on it? From what I've seen it's Trump saying that Democrats are for open borders not Democrats saying it themselves.

Also if they were in favour of open borders why did they not introduce this when Obama was in charge and they had the house??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2018, 10:18:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 08:08:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 03:58:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)

Part of the issue is that people are jumping on such stuff because Trump has demonstrated through word and action that he is capable of what he is being blamed for.

You are upset about the story that went around for a day or two about the child immigrants being lost in the system which turned out to be down to the foster parents avoiding the authorities. Well the reality turned out to be even worse, even if THAT particular story wasn't their fault. Turned out they were intentionally ripping young kids out of their parents hands and now they're going to have trouble reuniting them all.

But I agree. We shouldn't reflexively react to everything before it is properly verified. There is enough heinous, callous and destructive shit going down to focus on without clouding the issue with stuff that had to be retracted the next day.

But that's probably the way it is going to be from now on with social media, blanket shoutfests on cable news and the resulting hyperpartisanship. Obama went through plenty of it too, albeit much more undeservedly.

I'm actively avoiding the news these days. I commented on the kids thing last week because it was too appalling to ignore, but in general I don't want to spend my life upset over what that shitstain and his minions are wreaking on the country and the world.

I wouldnt say Im upset about the "lost children" story, Im simply pointing out the rank hypocrisy and selective outrage from those on the left. Terrible things happened under Obama but we didnt hear a bloody word about it, until they tried to pin it on Trump a few weeks ago

As terrible as the current situation is, one must question whether the Democrats really want a solution, or if they are enjoying all the political capital they are gaining from it.

From my reading of the situation, many Democrats seem to be flat out in favor of open borders.  That is not a position middle America is on board with, much like middle America is not on board with Trumps zero tolerance enforcement and splitting of families

Remember, you only need ONE of these parents who crosses with a kid to comit a murder for this enforcement policy to swing back in favor of Trump

There was plenty of outrage over the initial chaos when the big influx of unaccompanied minors started in 2014. I don't know where you're getting the idea from that he suffered no criticism. Difference is he dealt with it quickly and also processed asylum claims first and criminal proceedings second. He certainly didn't go the Trump route of tearing families apart or trying his latest proposal to just deport them all without any court adjudication.

I don't know anyone in favour of "open" borders. Nor have I heard any Democratic politician campaign in favour of it (correct me if I'm wrong). It of course suits Trump down to the ground to depict it that way as his extreme position can then, in the minds of his supporters, be cast as a counter balance to the perceived extreme position of the supposed open borders crowd. It's like the insane not-an-inch position of the right when it comes to guns. Background checks, assault weapons bans and limits on magazine capacity does not equal the repeal of the second amendment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2018, 10:23:24 AM
Open borders were orginally a Koch/GOP idea to drive down wages and deliver higher margins to capital. They went with the export of industrial capacity to cheaper locations. More money for capital. Very successful
Now the GOP is using fears about a white minority to drive a culture war.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 25, 2018, 12:28:11 PM
Nothing happens in a vacuum;

Interesting read on the US Immigration issue;

https://medium.com/@tseng.putterman/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148 (https://medium.com/@tseng.putterman/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on June 26, 2018, 01:02:21 AM
If you can't understand what is going on in the USA or Trump If you listen to some of the right wing (not the Alex Jones looney toons variety) political podcasts you get a pretty clear picture of which way the wind is blowing.

It seems to me that these people simply don't care anymore, Rachel Maddow and all these media talking heads crying on TV is what they have for entertainment. They're not even watching Fox News except for Tucker Carlson. Crying left leaning liberals is comedy to them not Colbert or Jon Stuart.

The fact is people have been grumbling into their cornflakes about immigration and if you give them a vote on it they'll swallow it hook line and sinker. I don't know why the left haven't picked up on this. Most people don't care about gay marriage and things like that, that the old mainstream conservatives tried to play on, apart from a sizeable but limited number of more religious conservatives. but for most people it's like handing a bald man a comb. They don't particularly like it but at the same time they don't care.

And I'm pretty sure I said over a year ago when I probably last delved into politics on this board that calling Trump and his supporters Nazis won't help matters. How's that working out? All it does is buy him more wiggle room because anyone with a brain can see the gaping chasm between arresting illegal immigrants (and holding their children temporarily in a facility while they are being charged) and actually killing mass numbers of people. That's why they are laughing. That's why they are asking "aren't these people Mexico's responsibility not ours".

Immigration and demographic concerns are the real boiling points of the political right. I'm pretty certain of the left had kept demographics in check they could have almost every other social policy they wanted with only a few exceptions in the USA ie guns.

By the way, I predict the Democrats in 2020 will run with Andrew Yang as their candidate. It will be his UBI populism versus Trumps Nationalist populism. His message plays down identity politics and aims his message at the out of work or struggling working class voter. Effectively he will be offering welfare and unlocking potential where Trump will be offering you your old job back.

However on demographics this seems to be a lesson the left seem universally unwilling to learn and from what I can see there are some on that side of things that like to pat themselves on the back about how clever they are but somehow were (and still are) oblivious to the political freight train that was about to hit them.

My simple message is to any political party is simply do not f**k with the DEMOgraphic make up of your country especially in a DEMOcracy. A government should never vote for a change of electorate. It is political suicide.

If you don't want the far right to take control then learn this lesson. For all the accolades people lay at the feet of Angela Merkel she has single handily given stimulus to the far right all across Europe with her open borders and migrant quota proposals. Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Austria and now Italy have gone to the right. They are hinting at expelling Hungary under the Lisbon treaty for not respecting EU values. Well if they do that allow me to predict that will backfire spectacularly as I get the feeling that others will happily join them.

France wasn't that far off really and when you look at Macron, his manufactured rise and where the money care from you really see it was desperate measures.

In the UK ironically perhaps we have to give a big thank you to David Cameron (and Farage too) for deflecting the energy of the populist right into the bucket of shit that is brexit. In fact the only other thing stopping the far right taking power in the UK is the hate speech laws which are starting to penalise some very trivial occurrences but I'm pretty sure someone is going to figure a way navigate the politically correct mine field eventually. Just like the AFD has in Germany.

It's not far off here in England. Tommy Robinson even went to jail over these kinds of issues ie grooming gangs. It was premeditated, he knew he was going to break the law he said as much in an interview not long before he got arrested. Now he has people marching in the street for him while Teresa May was wishing everyone a happy Eid. The anger among the English working class is palpable as is the contempt for them in the media, the political class and the middle and upper classes.

Even my own wife could not understand as I explained to her, we are in a nice leafy middle class area among independent professionals. We just smile and wave at our neighbours of various backgrounds but we don't need each other or compete with them for anything either. We have the means and the economic freedom to avoid them if we so wished. If you are in a poor area, with few options, you are competing with other groups for housing, welfare, time at the GP etc it's a different matter. Or maybe it's the Asian gang across town that beat you up or killed one of your friends. That is the grim reality from which this emerges.

There is a line trotted out that patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel. However I would counter that it is the last thing the poorest can cling to if they ever want to feel a part of society. It is that fine line of belonging that links those from the bottom to the top. But once those at the top betray that trust or render it meaningless then you risk alienating a lot of people. That is what we are seeing now in England.

And Ireland will go that way too I predict. It just needs the demographics to start shifting and if there is to be a projected 1m population increase by 2040, Right wing scare mongering aside, it is safe to assume a sizeable % of this will be immigration on top of the growing ethnic minority communities that are already here. Someone like Justin Barrett will be waiting in the wings for the right moment. It happened everywhere else it will happen in Ireland too.

However I think I am pissing into the wind because the left won't concede on this one. But the only thing worse than letting the right have their way on immigration would be to not let them and for that reason I think America will tear itself apart before long and the EU will crumble too or itself will become a right wing institution.

You may not be a left or right wing person and you may not like identity politics (or racism if you call it by its proper name) then your best bet ironically would actually be to try and live as least an ethnically diverse country as possible because that way people are less inclined to think about their identity, race etc and would most likely feel a genuine sense of belonging to the place they live in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 26, 2018, 02:28:06 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/trump-immigration-trap-cnn/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/opinions/trump-immigration-gop-could-still-win-jennings-opinion/index.html


People will believe whatever they want to belive

While I think the recent crisis wont help Trump, it wont hurt him as much as Democrats think it will

FFS his support among Republicans has even GONE UP over the past few days according to CNN

Lets see what happens if theres a high profile murder by an illegal in any of these districts where seats are primed to be flipped from red to blue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 26, 2018, 03:03:29 AM
You'd love that wouldn't you  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 26, 2018, 05:40:14 AM
Quote from: thejuice on June 26, 2018, 01:02:21 AM
If you can't understand what is going on in the USA or Trump If you listen to some of the right wing (not the Alex Jones looney toons variety) political podcasts you get a pretty clear picture of which way the wind is blowing.

It seems to me that these people simply don't care anymore, Rachel Maddow and all these media talking heads crying on TV is what they have for entertainment. They're not even watching Fox News except for Tucker Carlson. Crying left leaning liberals is comedy to them not Colbert or Jon Stuart.

The fact is people have been grumbling into their cornflakes about immigration and if you give them a vote on it they'll swallow it hook line and sinker. I don't know why the left haven't picked up on this. Most people don't care about gay marriage and things like that, that the old mainstream conservatives tried to play on, apart from a sizeable but limited number of more religious conservatives. but for most people it's like handing a bald man a comb. They don't particularly like it but at the same time they don't care.

And I'm pretty sure I said over a year ago when I probably last delved into politics on this board that calling Trump and his supporters Nazis won't help matters. How's that working out? All it does is buy him more wiggle room because anyone with a brain can see the gaping chasm between arresting illegal immigrants (and holding their children temporarily in a facility while they are being charged) and actually killing mass numbers of people. That's why they are laughing. That's why they are asking "aren't these people Mexico's responsibility not ours".

Immigration and demographic concerns are the real boiling points of the political right. I'm pretty certain of the left had kept demographics in check they could have almost every other social policy they wanted with only a few exceptions in the USA ie guns.

By the way, I predict the Democrats in 2020 will run with Andrew Yang as their candidate. It will be his UBI populism versus Trumps Nationalist populism. His message plays down identity politics and aims his message at the out of work or struggling working class voter. Effectively he will be offering welfare and unlocking potential where Trump will be offering you your old job back.

However on demographics this seems to be a lesson the left seem universally unwilling to learn and from what I can see there are some on that side of things that like to pat themselves on the back about how clever they are but somehow were (and still are) oblivious to the political freight train that was about to hit them.

My simple message is to any political party is simply do not f**k with the DEMOgraphic make up of your country especially in a DEMOcracy. A government should never vote for a change of electorate. It is political suicide.

If you don't want the far right to take control then learn this lesson. For all the accolades people lay at the feet of Angela Merkel she has single handily given stimulus to the far right all across Europe with her open borders and migrant quota proposals. Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Austria and now Italy have gone to the right. They are hinting at expelling Hungary under the Lisbon treaty for not respecting EU values. Well if they do that allow me to predict that will backfire spectacularly as I get the feeling that others will happily join them.

France wasn't that far off really and when you look at Macron, his manufactured rise and where the money care from you really see it was desperate measures.

In the UK ironically perhaps we have to give a big thank you to David Cameron (and Farage too) for deflecting the energy of the populist right into the bucket of shit that is brexit. In fact the only other thing stopping the far right taking power in the UK is the hate speech laws which are starting to penalise some very trivial occurrences but I'm pretty sure someone is going to figure a way navigate the politically correct mine field eventually. Just like the AFD has in Germany.

It's not far off here in England. Tommy Robinson even went to jail over these kinds of issues ie grooming gangs. It was premeditated, he knew he was going to break the law he said as much in an interview not long before he got arrested. Now he has people marching in the street for him while Teresa May was wishing everyone a happy Eid. The anger among the English working class is palpable as is the contempt for them in the media, the political class and the middle and upper classes.

Even my own wife could not understand as I explained to her, we are in a nice leafy middle class area among independent professionals. We just smile and wave at our neighbours of various backgrounds but we don't need each other or compete with them for anything either. We have the means and the economic freedom to avoid them if we so wished. If you are in a poor area, with few options, you are competing with other groups for housing, welfare, time at the GP etc it's a different matter. Or maybe it's the Asian gang across town that beat you up or killed one of your friends. That is the grim reality from which this emerges.

There is a line trotted out that patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel. However I would counter that it is the last thing the poorest can cling to if they ever want to feel a part of society. It is that fine line of belonging that links those from the bottom to the top. But once those at the top betray that trust or render it meaningless then you risk alienating a lot of people. That is what we are seeing now in England.

And Ireland will go that way too I predict. It just needs the demographics to start shifting and if there is to be a projected 1m population increase by 2040, Right wing scare mongering aside, it is safe to assume a sizeable % of this will be immigration on top of the growing ethnic minority communities that are already here. Someone like Justin Barrett will be waiting in the wings for the right moment. It happened everywhere else it will happen in Ireland too.

However I think I am pissing into the wind because the left won't concede on this one. But the only thing worse than letting the right have their way on immigration would be to not let them and for that reason I think America will tear itself apart before long and the EU will crumble too or itself will become a right wing institution.

You may not be a left or right wing person and you may not like identity politics (or racism if you call it by its proper name) then your best bet ironically would actually be to try and live as least an ethnically diverse country as possible because that way people are less inclined to think about their identity, race etc and would most likely feel a genuine sense of belonging to the place they live in.

Good post and I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

The problem is the the system of soverign nationalism is based along ethnic lines  and when people see that being altered that becomes the target but there has to be an underlying problem.

And the underlying problem is .... the economy stupid. People are struggling, losing their jobs, debt rising, middle class squeeze etc etc. They are wondering why and they see the migrants coming in and taking jobs and blame them for it.

So are they taking jobs?... Of course! But not usually the kind of jobs that the masses are willing to work (as they would be worse of) or are qualified to work (as their skill set does not meet the requirements). The migrants are allowed in not for some politicians eclectic society dream, but because they are filling a economic need to drive the economy, which will ultimately pay for the things that politicians keep promising the electorate like roads schools, hospitals etc etc...

The root cause of this all is a falling birth rate... the economic model of virtually every economy in history has been based on a growing population, a growing population is required to support an economy. Now since the mid 20th century Western countries have not had a high enough birth rate to support the labour needs of their economy so they have encouraged immigration to fill those gaps and keep the economy expanding. All the while increasing the welfare state, discouraging whole segments of society to not be economically active, which the rest of the electorate and the immigrant population were paying for this eventually had to give.
Increasing globalization is another method of adding to economic growth, which on the one hand it adds money to the exchequer via corporate growth but it takes money away from the labour force (moving jobs overseas) and ultimately means that the corporations become more powerful than the governments themselves so they start calling the shots for the economy about what is best for their bottom line.

To the man on the street tho this is a bit to complicated to understand try telling him that the software engineer from India, Welder from Slovakia, or cook from El Salvador is paying for his lifestyle since he lost his job in the steel work after the Chinese buyout. He would see it in simple terms they're taking our new jobs that went to China.

Tho fundamentally I agree with your bottom line.... Trump could well be heading for another 4 years with Rees Moog to reestablish the special relationship. But sure thats democracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2018, 08:09:46 AM
Quote from: thejuice on June 26, 2018, 01:02:21 AM
If you can't understand what is going on in the USA or Trump If you listen to some of the right wing (not the Alex Jones looney toons variety) political podcasts you get a pretty clear picture of which way the wind is blowing.

It seems to me that these people simply don't care anymore, Rachel Maddow and all these media talking heads crying on TV is what they have for entertainment. They're not even watching Fox News except for Tucker Carlson. Crying left leaning liberals is comedy to them not Colbert or Jon Stuart.

The fact is people have been grumbling into their cornflakes about immigration and if you give them a vote on it they'll swallow it hook line and sinker. I don't know why the left haven't picked up on this. Most people don't care about gay marriage and things like that, that the old mainstream conservatives tried to play on, apart from a sizeable but limited number of more religious conservatives. but for most people it's like handing a bald man a comb. They don't particularly like it but at the same time they don't care.

And I'm pretty sure I said over a year ago when I probably last delved into politics on this board that calling Trump and his supporters Nazis won't help matters. How's that working out? All it does is buy him more wiggle room because anyone with a brain can see the gaping chasm between arresting illegal immigrants (and holding their children temporarily in a facility while they are being charged) and actually killing mass numbers of people. That's why they are laughing. That's why they are asking "aren't these people Mexico's responsibility not ours".

Immigration and demographic concerns are the real boiling points of the political right. I'm pretty certain of the left had kept demographics in check they could have almost every other social policy they wanted with only a few exceptions in the USA ie guns.

By the way, I predict the Democrats in 2020 will run with Andrew Yang as their candidate. It will be his UBI populism versus Trumps Nationalist populism. His message plays down identity politics and aims his message at the out of work or struggling working class voter. Effectively he will be offering welfare and unlocking potential where Trump will be offering you your old job back.

However on demographics this seems to be a lesson the left seem universally unwilling to learn and from what I can see there are some on that side of things that like to pat themselves on the back about how clever they are but somehow were (and still are) oblivious to the political freight train that was about to hit them.

My simple message is to any political party is simply do not f**k with the DEMOgraphic make up of your country especially in a DEMOcracy. A government should never vote for a change of electorate. It is political suicide.

If you don't want the far right to take control then learn this lesson. For all the accolades people lay at the feet of Angela Merkel she has single handily given stimulus to the far right all across Europe with her open borders and migrant quota proposals. Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Austria and now Italy have gone to the right. They are hinting at expelling Hungary under the Lisbon treaty for not respecting EU values. Well if they do that allow me to predict that will backfire spectacularly as I get the feeling that others will happily join them.

France wasn't that far off really and when you look at Macron, his manufactured rise and where the money care from you really see it was desperate measures.

In the UK ironically perhaps we have to give a big thank you to David Cameron (and Farage too) for deflecting the energy of the populist right into the bucket of shit that is brexit. In fact the only other thing stopping the far right taking power in the UK is the hate speech laws which are starting to penalise some very trivial occurrences but I'm pretty sure someone is going to figure a way navigate the politically correct mine field eventually. Just like the AFD has in Germany.

It's not far off here in England. Tommy Robinson even went to jail over these kinds of issues ie grooming gangs. It was premeditated, he knew he was going to break the law he said as much in an interview not long before he got arrested. Now he has people marching in the street for him while Teresa May was wishing everyone a happy Eid. The anger among the English working class is palpable as is the contempt for them in the media, the political class and the middle and upper classes.

Even my own wife could not understand as I explained to her, we are in a nice leafy middle class area among independent professionals. We just smile and wave at our neighbours of various backgrounds but we don't need each other or compete with them for anything either. We have the means and the economic freedom to avoid them if we so wished. If you are in a poor area, with few options, you are competing with other groups for housing, welfare, time at the GP etc it's a different matter. Or maybe it's the Asian gang across town that beat you up or killed one of your friends. That is the grim reality from which this emerges.

There is a line trotted out that patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel. However I would counter that it is the last thing the poorest can cling to if they ever want to feel a part of society. It is that fine line of belonging that links those from the bottom to the top. But once those at the top betray that trust or render it meaningless then you risk alienating a lot of people. That is what we are seeing now in England.

And Ireland will go that way too I predict. It just needs the demographics to start shifting and if there is to be a projected 1m population increase by 2040, Right wing scare mongering aside, it is safe to assume a sizeable % of this will be immigration on top of the growing ethnic minority communities that are already here. Someone like Justin Barrett will be waiting in the wings for the right moment. It happened everywhere else it will happen in Ireland too.

However I think I am pissing into the wind because the left won't concede on this one. But the only thing worse than letting the right have their way on immigration would be to not let them and for that reason I think America will tear itself apart before long and the EU will crumble too or itself will become a right wing institution.

You may not be a left or right wing person and you may not like identity politics (or racism if you call it by its proper name) then your best bet ironically would actually be to try and live as least an ethnically diverse country as possible because that way people are less inclined to think about their identity, race etc and would most likely feel a genuine sense of belonging to the place they live in.
Great post

A lot of people are pissed off and business as usual has no answers.
But immigration is a deflection. The real issue is money.

After 2008 Central Bankers tried to rescue the economy with Quantitative Easing. None of the money got to the people. It was all speculated. House prices are insane . Young people have to rent. Governments cut spending across the board.
the Trump admin is slashing welfare and family supports and privatising across the board. Then Fox rant on about immigration.

Immigration control won't put food on tables.

The Tories could well collapse over Brexit. In Italy the bourgeois parties have already collapsed. What replaces them? Polarisation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f957Tn4etv4

Immigration control is not the issue. The issue is the economy and where the money goes.  This is plutocracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 26, 2018, 02:27:17 PM
Great post, Juice and spot on, Seafoid.

The political left has not merely misjudged the flight of the ball. It has given the ball to the hard right.

In the developed world, the global corporations have been allowed to transfer the economic gains of globalisation straight to capital with none of it going to working people,  never mind the underprivileged, whose welfare programmes have actually been cut. Spectacular gains in productivity since the 80s have ALL gone to capital, working people are worse off than they were then and that is the fertile soil in which xenophobia, racism and fascism grow. That is the breeding ground for Brexit and Trump.

And it is all the fault of the political left that allowed it happen while they philosophised and fiddled about gender politics and such while forgetting their primary purpose – to look after working people. It's not that identity politics, respect and euality are not important – it's that they flow from a political philosophy that puts the material welfare of its voters first. Their hearts and minds will follow. Right now, they're following the likes of Farrage, Trump and the dangerous right wing ideologues emerging throughout Europe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on June 26, 2018, 02:47:45 PM
The economy is indeed an important underlying factor but we live in a democracy with supposedly a sovereign people not a sovereign economy. Not everything is the economy as cultural battles are also at play here.

The relationship between economic growth and population change was always a finely balanced trade off and once it goes akilter there seems to be rather extreme self righting mechanism that kicks into gear. Quite often the nature of the economic need and the numbers for migration is concealed or buttered up for the receiving populace which again undermines the trust between the various classes.

The right love to point to Japan as a nation that has chosen to preserve its ethnicity over economic growth. They have a shrinking population, a large but rather flat economy and are looking into automation to manage the shrinking workforce problem.

The USA ain't Japan though so i don't know how they plan to manage that one and I don't think they'll be showing up to pick fruit anytime soon either
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 26, 2018, 03:08:13 PM
20,000 to 1

325 million people, 17,000 murders.

Less than 17,000 murderers...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:53:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 02:28:06 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/trump-immigration-trap-cnn/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/opinions/trump-immigration-gop-could-still-win-jennings-opinion/index.html


People will believe whatever they want to belive

While I think the recent crisis wont help Trump, it wont hurt him as much as Democrats think it will

FFS his support among Republicans has even GONE UP over the past few days according to CNN

Lets see what happens if theres a high profile murder by an illegal in any of these districts where seats are primed to be flipped from red to blue.

I have no idea if it will help or hinder Trump.

It certainly won't hurt him amongst a certain segment of the population.

Personally, I don't really give a shit if it doesn't hurt him. Standing up to him on this issue and calling it out for what it is is the correct thing to do, whether or not there are short term costs for doing so.

MLK said that the arc of the moral universe bends towards justice, but as someone said last week (Springsteen?), it still requires people to help bend it that way. That some immoral, callous demagogue is temporarily exploiting fear and hatred doesn't change that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2018, 05:07:33 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 26, 2018, 02:27:17 PM
Great post, Juice and spot on, Seafoid.

The political left has not merely misjudged the flight of the ball. It has given the ball to the hard right.

In the developed world, the global corporations have been allowed to transfer the economic gains of globalisation straight to capital with none of it going to working people,  never mind the underprivileged, whose welfare programmes have actually been cut. Spectacular gains in productivity since the 80s have ALL gone to capital, working people are worse off than they were then and that is the fertile soil in which xenophobia, racism and fascism grow. That is the breeding ground for Brexit and Trump.

And it is all the fault of the political left that allowed it happen while they philosophised and fiddled about gender politics and such while forgetting their primary purpose – to look after working people. It's not that identity politics, respect and euality are not important – it's that they flow from a political philosophy that puts the material welfare of its voters first. Their hearts and minds will follow. Right now, they're following the likes of Farrage, Trump and the dangerous right wing ideologues emerging throughout Europe.
That is a great analysis, Hardy.

Nobody in the left wing parties understands how the economy works. They all bow to the superior knowledge of the Central Bankers. And the central bankers  know nothing. Their models are all useless.

Osborne launched QE to get the UK deficit down from £1.05 tn in 2013. The deficit is now £1.7 tn.
Deflation sucks money from voters and gives it to plutocrats.

The problem is really simple. You cannot have a normal political system with plutocracy. It has never been possible.
And the solution is really easy. Tax the f**k out of the plutocrats. They will continue to ride voters until they are forced  to stop.

Working class voters need to move away from polarisation and towards what unites us. In the past this was done by cross political orgs like the boy scouts and the breaking up of corrupt and bankrupt institutions such as the British Empire and Tammany Hall. 

Culture wars are bullshit. There are pure divide and rule.
It all comes back to the system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:50:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.

Oh......I forgot that the 12% it does apply to,  its only a temporary ban.

One heck of a Muslim ban if you ask me-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2018, 06:40:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:50:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.

Oh......I forgot that the 12% it does apply to,  its only a temporary ban.

One heck of a Muslim ban if you ask me-lol

Defend away. I'm just thankful there are SOME checks and balances to Trump and his supporters' wishes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 26, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
It will prove to be to the detriment of the United States economy and way of life that the Republicans were allowed to steal the supreme Court seat.

The dissenting comment on the supreme Court ruling is enlightening.

The current cavalier uneducated and short sighted, self interested approach of the Republican party and the risible leadership and direction of the Democratic party are conspiring to shrink the US economy, promote division within America and promote Chinese and Russian geo political agendas.

The blatant racism that has re-reared it's ugly head, the ignorance and promotion of anti science and anti expert sentiment is on it's way to breaking the US for the next 20 years. Dividing rich from poor only protects the rich for a short period of time.

The parallels between the unionist community in the north clinging to a way of life in the face of demographic change over the last 40 years should prove instructive.

Who fills the vacuum?

When will the US election politicians acting in the interest of the people of the country?

Been a while since the new deal...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2018, 08:57:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 26, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
It will prove to be to the detriment of the United States economy and way of life that the Republicans were allowed to steal the supreme Court seat.

The dissenting comment on the supreme Court ruling is enlightening.

The current cavalier uneducated and short sighted, self interested approach of the Republican party and the risible leadership and direction of the Democratic party are conspiring to shrink the US economy, promote division within America and promote Chinese and Russian geo political agendas.

The blatant racism that has re-reared it's ugly head, the ignorance and promotion of anti science and anti expert sentiment is on it's way to breaking the US for the next 20 years. Dividing rich from poor only protects the rich for a short period of time.

The parallels between the unionist community in the north clinging to a way of life in the face of demographic change over the last 40 years should prove instructive.

Who fills the vacuum?

When will the US election politicians acting in the interest of the people of the country?

Been a while since the new deal...

The GOP are working for the plutocraTS.  They are slowly strangling the US. The next crash will wipe out an  awful lot of wealth.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/05/27/author-q-and-a-democracy-will-die-maybe-in-its-sleep/amp/
All sides in current politics — even the radicals — are sticking to what they know. At some point we will all have to let go.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on June 26, 2018, 09:09:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim

And yet the biggest sponsor of terrrorism Saudia Arabia is ok......you couldn't make it up.....they are ok because they buy weapons from US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim

Whoever said a sovereign nation doesn't have the right to admit who they want?

I'm merely pointing out that Trump rabble roused and promised to ban Muslim immigration, then set the likes of Giuliani the task to come up with some way to do it legally. The initial clusterfuck was the best they could come up with. The courts have forced them to redo it until finally, 18 months later, a partisan Supreme Court says it not our problem as he has the authority.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2018, 09:22:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
Whoever said a sovereign nation doesn't have the right to admit who they want?

Until fairly recently, governments had little control over who crossed their borders, nor did they care much as long as you weren't an invading army of conquest. It wasn't so long ago that the only requirement for getting into the US via places like Ellis Island was that you be in decent health and that was about it. No need for visas or the army of bureaucrats processing them. The Schengen area is a fine achievement by modern standards but it's just going back to how things were before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 26, 2018, 09:38:01 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on June 26, 2018, 09:09:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim

And yet the biggest sponsor of terrrorism Saudia Arabia is ok......you couldn't make it up.....they are ok because they buy weapons from US.

I take it you know the countries involved were originally identified by the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION as countries where passports and other official travel documents couldnt be verified as authentic.

I take it you also know thats its a TEMPORARY BAN

I take it you know that the so called Muslim Ban impacts less than TWELVE PERCENT of the Muslim population worldwide
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 26, 2018, 09:39:01 PM
Did you hear that on PATRIOT radio?  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 26, 2018, 09:57:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 26, 2018, 09:39:01 PM
Did you hear that on PATRIOT radio?  ::)

lol....I need to take a nap.....Im tired from all the winning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2018, 10:38:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 09:57:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 26, 2018, 09:39:01 PM
Did you hear that on PATRIOT radio?  ::)

lol....I need to take a nap.....Im tired from all the winning
Surely whining
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 27, 2018, 12:44:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 09:57:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 26, 2018, 09:39:01 PM
Did you hear that on PATRIOT radio?  ::)

lol....I need to take a nap.....Im tired from all the winning

Unless you have a net worth of $10M plus you're not winning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim

Whoever said a sovereign nation doesn't have the right to admit who they want?

I'm merely pointing out that Trump rabble roused and promised to ban Muslim immigration, then set the likes of Giuliani the task to come up with some way to do it legally. The initial clusterfuck was the best they could come up with. The courts have forced them to redo it until finally, 18 months later, a partisan Supreme Court says it not our problem as he has the authority.
its a very sane policy if u can't verify who somebody is they can't enter the country but trump is a clown and finds it next to impossible to say something without disparaging a group or insulting someone , also I think people should kind of understand that trump takes some really hard positions on immigration, trade which allows him to bargain and give some concessions but still get what he wants
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 02:50:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim

Whoever said a sovereign nation doesn't have the right to admit who they want?

I'm merely pointing out that Trump rabble roused and promised to ban Muslim immigration, then set the likes of Giuliani the task to come up with some way to do it legally. The initial clusterfuck was the best they could come up with. The courts have forced them to redo it until finally, 18 months later, a partisan Supreme Court says it not our problem as he has the authority.
its a very sane policy if u can't verify who somebody is they can't enter the country but trump is a clown and finds it next to impossible to say something without disparaging a group or insulting someone , also I think people should kind of understand that trump takes some really hard positions on immigration, trade which allows him to bargain and give some concessions but still get what he wants
There is no masterplan othe than maximum attention for Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 27, 2018, 04:24:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim

Whoever said a sovereign nation doesn't have the right to admit who they want?

I'm merely pointing out that Trump rabble roused and promised to ban Muslim immigration, then set the likes of Giuliani the task to come up with some way to do it legally. The initial clusterfuck was the best they could come up with. The courts have forced them to redo it until finally, 18 months later, a partisan Supreme Court says it not our problem as he has the authority.
its a very sane policy if u can't verify who somebody is they can't enter the country but trump is a clown and finds it next to impossible to say something without disparaging a group or insulting someone , also I think people should kind of understand that trump takes some really hard positions on immigration, trade which allows him to bargain and give some concessions but still get what he wants

Oh, if only it were that well thought out...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 08:03:38 AM
The GOP is focused on short term dopamine hits.

North Korea didn't sign anything.
Muslim bans won't do anything to make the US safer
Tax cuts are not working .



@JohnJHarwood

Trump/GOP leaders said tax-cuts would lift economy out of long-term rut, boosting growth to 3-4% and preventing deficts from rising new CBO projections: deficits rising rapidly, long-term growth of 1.9%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim

Whoever said a sovereign nation doesn't have the right to admit who they want?

I'm merely pointing out that Trump rabble roused and promised to ban Muslim immigration, then set the likes of Giuliani the task to come up with some way to do it legally. The initial clusterfuck was the best they could come up with. The courts have forced them to redo it until finally, 18 months later, a partisan Supreme Court says it not our problem as he has the authority.
its a very sane policy if u can't verify who somebody is they can't enter the country but trump is a clown and finds it next to impossible to say something without disparaging a group or insulting someone , also I think people should kind of understand that trump takes some really hard positions on immigration, trade which allows him to bargain and give some concessions but still get what he wants

I nearly pissed myself when I read that Trump isn't a bumbling, short-attention span fool and actually has a plan. Best joke of the year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 27, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
Supreme Court master plan by the GOP is bearing fruit for the wealthy and the xenophobic in spades this week.

The deplorables and their overlords playing to their base instincts are playing a blinder and should all be feeling very pleased with themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 03:45:25 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 27, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
Supreme Court master plan by the GOP is bearing fruit for the wealthy and the xenophobic in spades this week.

The deplorables and their overlords playing to their base instincts are playing a blinder and should all be feeling very pleased with themselves.

My cousin claims that people who voted for Obama twice, then voted for Trump in 2016  were driven to their decision by racism. 

The fall back position for Democrats is that anyone who disagrees with them on anything must be racist, Islamophobic, Exnophobic, sexist, transphobic etc. Democratic Party is becoming a very small tent....you have to agree with them on EVERYTHING or else youre the enemy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 27, 2018, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 03:45:25 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 27, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
Supreme Court master plan by the GOP is bearing fruit for the wealthy and the xenophobic in spades this week.

The deplorables and their overlords playing to their base instincts are playing a blinder and should all be feeling very pleased with themselves.

My cousin claims that people who voted for Obama twice, then voted for Trump in 2016  were driven to their decision by racism. 

The fall back position for Democrats is that anyone who disagrees with them on anything must be racist, Islamophobic, Exnophobic, sexist, transphobic etc. Democratic Party is becoming a very small tent....you have to agree with them on EVERYTHING or else youre the enemy
[/quote

Well if you listen to Trump as a Republican you have to agree with him on everything. If ever a country needed a 3rd or 4th political party as an alternative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 06:34:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim

Whoever said a sovereign nation doesn't have the right to admit who they want?

I'm merely pointing out that Trump rabble roused and promised to ban Muslim immigration, then set the likes of Giuliani the task to come up with some way to do it legally. The initial clusterfuck was the best they could come up with. The courts have forced them to redo it until finally, 18 months later, a partisan Supreme Court says it not our problem as he has the authority.
its a very sane policy if u can't verify who somebody is they can't enter the country but trump is a clown and finds it next to impossible to say something without disparaging a group or insulting someone , also I think people should kind of understand that trump takes some really hard positions on immigration, trade which allows him to bargain and give some concessions but still get what he wants

I nearly pissed myself when I read that Trump isn't a bumbling, short-attention span fool and actually has a plan. Best joke of the year.
the thing is 75% of the world are short attention spanned  fools who do nothing only stare at an iPhone all day long so he or his policy makers know most controversies will last a few days and people move on or forget . An example the child separation issue a policy that was enforced for a short period of time and then the policy was changed but if u are a parent thinking about crossing the border illegally with a minor or sending a child with someone else u would probably not do it after the last few weeks for trump that's a win and trump or his policy makers don't care because in their view nothing else works ,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 27, 2018, 07:13:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
So called "Muslim" Travel Ban upheld by Supreme Court

Meltdown occurs in 3....2.....1...

What do you mean "so-called"?

That's exactly what it was. Giuliani is on record saying that finding a "legal" way to ban Muslims was his remit.

He's had to modify it and the conservative Supreme Court says the current version is within his gift as President, but that in itself doesn't make the whole issue morally right.

If it is a "Muslim ban"  it is a pretty ineffective one, considering it doesn't apply to 88% of the worlds Muslim, but believe what you want

It was as much as he thought he could get away with.

YOU believe what YOU want, but both Giuliani and Trump are on the record.
iran Syria chad Iraq Libya Sudan Somalia Yemen Venezuela North Korea are the countries on ban list all are either going through civil war or are basket cases where the government do not share or cooperate on terrorisn with any countries . A sovereign country should be able to decide who comes in and out of their country ,not USA problem most of these nations are Muslim

Whoever said a sovereign nation doesn't have the right to admit who they want?

I'm merely pointing out that Trump rabble roused and promised to ban Muslim immigration, then set the likes of Giuliani the task to come up with some way to do it legally. The initial clusterfuck was the best they could come up with. The courts have forced them to redo it until finally, 18 months later, a partisan Supreme Court says it not our problem as he has the authority.
its a very sane policy if u can't verify who somebody is they can't enter the country but trump is a clown and finds it next to impossible to say something without disparaging a group or insulting someone , also I think people should kind of understand that trump takes some really hard positions on immigration, trade which allows him to bargain and give some concessions but still get what he wants

Again, I don't think most people have any issue with having to vet someone prior to entry. However, that is not the same thing as pulling the plug on EVERYONE as Trump did, leaving a lot of people in limbo who were in the process of getting approved or had already been approved for entry. What does some poor Yemeni or Syrian refugee and his family do when they'd left their home to work on getting asylum and then suddenly Trump sweeps the rug out from under them and they're stuck, not able to go back home?

Trump's negotiating tactics? The proof will be in the pudding. He's not trying to intimidate some real estate rival in Manhattan or Atlantic City.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2018, 07:55:09 PM
It's okay. According to Mitch McConnell, the sitting president doesn't get to nominate a Supreme Court justice replacement. According to him that's the job of the next president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2018, 07:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 03:45:25 PM

My cousin claims that people who voted for Obama twice, then voted for Trump in 2016  were driven to their decision by racism. 

The fall back position for Democrats is that anyone who disagrees with them on anything must be racist, Islamophobic, Exnophobic, sexist, transphobic etc. Democratic Party is becoming a very small tent....you have to agree with them on EVERYTHING or else youre the enemy

One more time. The definition of racist is not "anyone who disagrees with me." If you're weeping into your coffee for being called out as a racist, maybe you should stop being a racist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:06:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2018, 07:55:09 PM
It's okay. According to Mitch McConnell, the sitting president doesn't get to nominate a Supreme Court justice replacement. According to him that's the job of the next president.

Oh yes....the old "Biden Rule"

Which was also promoted by Chuck Schumer in 2007

Funny when the shoe is on the other foot they don't like it

I can't take all the winning....it's getting boring
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:08:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2018, 07:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 03:45:25 PM

My cousin claims that people who voted for Obama twice, then voted for Trump in 2016  were driven to their decision by racism. 

The fall back position for Democrats is that anyone who disagrees with them on anything must be racist, Islamophobic, Exnophobic, sexist, transphobic etc. Democratic Party is becoming a very small tent....you have to agree with them on EVERYTHING or else youre the enemy

One more time. The definition of racist is not "anyone who disagrees with me." If you're weeping into your coffee for being called out as a racist, maybe you should stop being a racist.

Point out a single posting I have ever made that could be remotely considered rascist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 27, 2018, 08:12:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:06:20 PMI can't take all the winning....it's getting boring

What exactly are you winning at? You spend 6 hours a day listening to talk radio driving a truck . 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

Which Republican Supreme Court nominee did a Democratic Senate deny a vote to?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:22:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

You commented that Matthews was upset. I said why it was justified.

And rhetoric/words are not the same as action. The GOP is the party who followed through. They've set the precedent. It will bite THEM on the arse in the future. Who knows WHERE the threshold will end up now? Will a vacancy be even considered after the midterms in future when the senate is in opposition control?

But yeah, we've probably covered this before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:34:01 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

Which Republican Supreme Court nominee did a Democratic Senate deny a vote to?

They strongly advocated it TWICE under 2 separate Republican presidents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2018, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.

Their
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on June 27, 2018, 08:49:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.

Well researched insightful post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:50:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:22:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

You commented that Matthews was upset. I said why it was justified.

And rhetoric/words are not the same as action. The GOP is the party who followed through. They've set the precedent. It will bite THEM on the arse in the future. Who knows WHERE the threshold will end up now? Will a vacancy be even considered after the midterms in future when the senate is in opposition control?

But yeah, we've probably covered this before.

You obviously trust the Democrats much more and than I do

From my vantage point they absolutely would have blocked a Republican  nominee had an opening arise
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:34:01 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

Which Republican Supreme Court nominee did a Democratic Senate deny a vote to?

They strongly advocated it TWICE under 2 separate Republican presidents.

But didn't actually block any votes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:59:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:34:01 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

Which Republican Supreme Court nominee did a Democratic Senate deny a vote to?

They strongly advocated it TWICE under 2 separate Republican presidents.

But didn't actually block any votes.

They didnt, but (imho) given the rhetoric employed especially by Schumer among others they would have in a heartbeat (no pun intended)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nSCeHEOThZM

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 27, 2018, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:50:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:22:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

You commented that Matthews was upset. I said why it was justified.

And rhetoric/words are not the same as action. The GOP is the party who followed through. They've set the precedent. It will bite THEM on the arse in the future. Who knows WHERE the threshold will end up now? Will a vacancy be even considered after the midterms in future when the senate is in opposition control?

But yeah, we've probably covered this before.

You obviously trust the Democrats much more and than I do

From my vantage point they absolutely would have blocked a Republican  nominee had an opening arise

It's not about trust.

It's about brazenness and balls and passion and enthusiasm.

One side has it. The other doesn't. The Dems are complete wimps when it comes to this type of shit. There is no way in hell Schumer would have pulled that stunt. It would have been like 2000 and the Florida recounts with GOP activists and congressional aides picketing and protesting and their supporters fomented by Fox and Limbaugh and Breitbart and the rest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.
Médian wages allowing for inflation are at 1975 levels. People do not have money. Why do you think so many voted for Trump? And he is f**king them over
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 27, 2018, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:59:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:34:01 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

Which Republican Supreme Court nominee did a Democratic Senate deny a vote to?

They strongly advocated it TWICE under 2 separate Republican presidents.

But didn't actually block any votes.

They didnt, but (imho) given the rhetoric employed especially by Schumer among others they would have in a heartbeat (no pun intended)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nSCeHEOThZM



Here is the Biden quote.

""Mr. President, where the nation should be treated to a consideration of constitutional philosophy, all it will get in such circumstances is a partisan bickering and political posturing from both parties and from both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. As a result, it is my view that if a Supreme Court Justice resigns tomorrow, or within the next several weeks, or resigns at the end of the summer, President Bush should consider following the practice of a majority of his predecessors and not — and not — name a nominee until after the November election is completed.""

He was not going to block a hearing or a vote. He said clearly that if a vacancy arose then Bush should get to nominate a replacement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 09:19:30 PM
Maybe I've lived too long in MA. The Democrats here would have gone there without hesitation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 09:22:39 PM
Can the Dems block this one or not??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 27, 2018, 09:33:37 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 09:22:39 PM
Can the Dems block this one or not??

No. The Republicans got rid of the rule that it required 60 votes to overcome a filibuster of a Supreme Court nominee last year to get Gorsuch confirmed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/us/politics/neil-gorsuch-supreme-court-senate.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 09:53:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.
Médian wages allowing for inflation are at 1975 levels. People do not have money. Why do you think so many voted for Trump? And he is f**king them over
and this only started happening since trump became president? According to CNBC wages went up 2.7% in 2017 most since the Great Depression
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 09:53:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.
Médian wages allowing for inflation are at 1975 levels. People do not have money. Why do you think so many voted for Trump? And he is f**king them over
and this only started happening since trump became president? According to CNBC wages went up 2.7% in 2017 most since the Great Depression
Most since the Great Depression.? For f**k's sake.
Wages went up by over 5% a year in the 50s
Trump said the tax cuts would generate growth of 3 to 4% per year.
Now the OBR estimates max 1.9%.
Why? Because all the money goes to the rich who are riding everyone else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 10:31:46 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:59:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:34:01 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

Which Republican Supreme Court nominee did a Democratic Senate deny a vote to?

They strongly advocated it TWICE under 2 separate Republican presidents.

But didn't actually block any votes.

They didnt, but (imho) given the rhetoric employed especially by Schumer among others they would have in a heartbeat (no pun intended)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nSCeHEOThZM



Here is the Biden quote.

""Mr. President, where the nation should be treated to a consideration of constitutional philosophy, all it will get in such circumstances is a partisan bickering and political posturing from both parties and from both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. As a result, it is my view that if a Supreme Court Justice resigns tomorrow, or within the next several weeks, or resigns at the end of the summer, President Bush should consider following the practice of a majority of his predecessors and not — and not — name a nominee until after the November election is completed.""

He was not going to block a hearing or a vote. He said clearly that if a vacancy arose then Bush should get to nominate a replacement.

Haha.....well he could hardly block a vote or a hearing if the then President followed this wondeful advice and "not name a nominee"

What Joes doesnt say is what he would have done, had the sitting president gone ahead and put forward a nominee

You and J70 think that it was all talk and they wouldnt have blocked him

I, on the other hand, fully believe that they would have had the situation arisen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 09:53:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.
Médian wages allowing for inflation are at 1975 levels. People do not have money. Why do you think so many voted for Trump? And he is f**king them over
and this only started happening since trump became president? According to CNBC wages went up 2.7% in 2017 most since the Great Depression
Most since the Great Depression.? For f**k's sake.
Wages went up by over 5% a year in the 50s
Trump said the tax cuts would generate growth of 3 to 4% per year.
Now the OBR estimates max 1.9%.
Why? Because all the money goes to the rich who are riding everyone else.
the last collapse or depression
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 27, 2018, 11:13:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 10:31:46 PM
I, on the other hand, fully believe that they would have had the situation arisen

That is your belief.

What you said was "They strongly advocated it TWICE under 2 separate Republican presidents." They did not advocate for denying a hearing to a nomination.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 27, 2018, 11:27:05 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 11:13:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 10:31:46 PM
I, on the other hand, fully believe that they would have had the situation arisen

That is your belief.

What you said was "They strongly advocated it TWICE under 2 separate Republican presidents." They did not advocate for denying a hearing to a nomination.

I'm missing your point

They advocated against them even naming a nominee.  How can you give a hearing to someone if you block the prior step which is them naming a nominee?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 27, 2018, 11:35:57 PM
Quote from: thejuice on June 26, 2018, 02:47:45 PM
The economy is indeed an important underlying factor but we live in a democracy with supposedly a sovereign people not a sovereign economy. Not everything is the economy as cultural battles are also at play here.

The relationship between economic growth and population change was always a finely balanced trade off and once it goes akilter there seems to be rather extreme self righting mechanism that kicks into gear. Quite often the nature of the economic need and the numbers for migration is concealed or buttered up for the receiving populace which again undermines the trust between the various classes.

The right love to point to Japan as a nation that has chosen to preserve its ethnicity over economic growth. They have a shrinking population, a large but rather flat economy and are looking into automation to manage the shrinking workforce problem.

The USA ain't Japan though so i don't know how they plan to manage that one and I don't think they'll be showing up to pick fruit anytime soon either

I beg to differ...

If the economy was doing great and everyone felt they were benefiting I predict there would be no rise of Alt-right (course we never know for sure). Immigration has been huge into American for decades, immigrants were broadly welcomed as everyone felt things were going great so they weren't disgruntled and had no need to blame or scapegoat

Ireland is a good example were most people are benefiting and so no one is getting the blame.....yet

The perception of benefiting is the important thing people usually compare it to the previous generation and you'd have to say in America & UK its going backwards. Ireland its definitely improving.. in terms of material benefit at least which is the easiest to measure.

Japan is a good example of what happens when a fully industralised economy workforce starts to shrink, course there is other factors like crippling soverign debt for Japan. But most of the industrial countries seem to be heading towards these two fundamentals also.
Time will tell but I reckon Japan's economy is a precursor to the rest of the world as the entire World is becoming industrialised and population growth is dropping off....unbelievably there has been little societal upheaval prob due to the rate of employment holding up.... maybe it is also due to few immigrants in their society and a willingness to accepting their fate.. either way I dont think Western society will hold up the same way, especially America where people have been ingrained into the belief of improving your lot over successive generations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2018, 12:39:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 10:31:46 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:59:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:34:01 PM
Quote from: dec on June 27, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 27, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Trump gets another Supreme Court Pick-Kennedy retiring

Just heard Chris Matthews-he's apoplectic 😤

Well yeah... the stolen Supreme Court seat has left this rather significant don't you think?

We've ploughed this ground before

Garland should have been given a hearing, but the Democrats own behavior under prior Republican  administrations is partly to blame for McConnell getting away with it

Which Republican Supreme Court nominee did a Democratic Senate deny a vote to?

They strongly advocated it TWICE under 2 separate Republican presidents.

But didn't actually block any votes.

They didnt, but (imho) given the rhetoric employed especially by Schumer among others they would have in a heartbeat (no pun intended)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nSCeHEOThZM



Here is the Biden quote.

""Mr. President, where the nation should be treated to a consideration of constitutional philosophy, all it will get in such circumstances is a partisan bickering and political posturing from both parties and from both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. As a result, it is my view that if a Supreme Court Justice resigns tomorrow, or within the next several weeks, or resigns at the end of the summer, President Bush should consider following the practice of a majority of his predecessors and not — and not — name a nominee until after the November election is completed.""

He was not going to block a hearing or a vote. He said clearly that if a vacancy arose then Bush should get to nominate a replacement.

Haha.....well he could hardly block a vote or a hearing if the then President followed this wondeful advice and "not name a nominee"

What Joes doesnt say is what he would have done, had the sitting president gone ahead and put forward a nominee

You and J70 think that it was all talk and they wouldnt have blocked him

I, on the other hand, fully believe that they would have had the situation arisen

It suits your argument not to give the benefit of the doubt as to what they might have done. Do you have comments from OTHER Dems at the time? Republicans at the time? How serious an actual threat was this?

Basically, unless you add some serious context, you don't really have a clue - you're just  making another false equivalency (but by all means expand to support your claim... if you really care... I don't). On the other hand, there is no doubt whatsoever about what the GOP actually did do, with close to a full year left in Obama's term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2018, 02:01:58 AM
Joe Biden was chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee at the time and Schumer was one of the most senior members of the Democraric leadership.

Its impossible to know what they would have done, but they said what they said and its come back to haunt them.

You dont think they wouldnt have blocked a nomination.....I think they would

I said last year that blocking Garland was wrong and it was a huge gamble by the Republicans, but its paid off in spades. 

As I also said last year, most Republicans I know (east coast, fiscally conservative, socially moderate) would regard the Trump Presidency as completely worth it if gets in two Supreme Court Justices even though they, like me, cant stand him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on June 28, 2018, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2018, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.

Their
Their Their
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 28, 2018, 11:22:07 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on June 28, 2018, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2018, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.

Their
Their Their
There is no their there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2018, 11:31:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2018, 02:01:58 AM
Joe Biden was chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee at the time and Schumer was one of the most senior members of the Democraric leadership.

Its impossible to know what they would have done, but they said what they said and its come back to haunt them.

You dont think they wouldnt have blocked a nomination.....I think they would

I said last year that blocking Garland was wrong and it was a huge gamble by the Republicans, but its paid off in spades. 

As I also said last year, most Republicans I know (east coast, fiscally conservative, socially moderate) would regard the Trump Presidency as completely worth it if gets in two Supreme Court Justices even though they, like me, cant stand him.

Well, you're about to get your money's worth. Hope you enjoy it. This country is about to change even more for the worse for women, minorities, working class, consumers and the environment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 28, 2018, 09:16:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 09:53:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2018, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 27, 2018, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
QuoteHarley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says:

"Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."
no one is buying there motorcycles there profit and sales are way down the last couple of years but blame trump instead of fixing the company which has been faltering for a few years.
Médian wages allowing for inflation are at 1975 levels. People do not have money. Why do you think so many voted for Trump? And he is f**king them over
and this only started happening since trump became president? According to CNBC wages went up 2.7% in 2017 most since the Great Depression
Most since the Great Depression.? For f**k's sake.
Wages went up by over 5% a year in the 50s
Trump said the tax cuts would generate growth of 3 to 4% per year.
Now the OBR estimates max 1.9%.
Why? Because all the money goes to the rich who are riding everyone else.
the last collapse or depression

Here's something for you

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0628/973939-us-economy/

But personal consumption expenditures, a measure that tracks spending by individuals, grew at a sluggish 0.9% for the quarter, the lowest level since the second quarter of 2013.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 28, 2018, 11:37:49 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-trial-runs-for-fascism-are-in-full-flow-1.3543375
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 04:39:15 AM
So much winning!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/25/trump-team-rebukes-u-n-saying-it-overestimates-extreme-poverty-in-america-by-18-million-people/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 02, 2018, 05:14:06 AM
$4 a day
Literally less than a cup of coffee per day.
Apparently this is a new acceptable measure of poverty in the United States in 2018. Those "experts" really have their shit together...

No wonder the country is fucked.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 02, 2018, 05:42:20 AM
Quote from: heganboy on July 02, 2018, 05:14:06 AM
$4 a day
Literally less than a cup of coffee per day.
Apparently this is a new acceptable measure of poverty in the United States in 2018. Those "experts" really have their shit together...

No wonder the country is fucked.
A.The US is neo Victorian


1. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/jun/29/americas-outcasts-women-trapped-in-cruel-cycle-of-exploitation

Don't have the link-FT quote fRom 2011
2. "Robert Gordon of Northwestern University ... shows that in the past quarter-century the US labour market has become markedly more exceptional –more organised around the "disposable worker".  Management thinking and declining unions have driven friction ever lower, while employment subsidies and regulation have made Europe's labour markets stickier. The Great Recession and its surge of long-term unemployment are a severe test of what was once seen as a distinctive US economic strength."


3. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/may/13/he-was-gone-fentanyl-and-the-opioid-deaths-destroying-australian-families

In the US, where opioid abuse has sparked a public health crisis, fentanyl is at the front line of overdose deaths. Opioid overdoses increased by about 30% across the US in just 14 months between 2016 and 2017, and fentanyl deaths shot up by 540% between 2013 and 2016.

According to the the US Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, the rate of deaths caused by synthetic opioids such as fentanyl jumped from 3.1 per 100,000 in 2015 to 6.2 per 100,000 in 2016. In October last year the US president, Donald Trump, declared it a public health emergency.

4. According to the FT oil price rises wiped out the bebefit of the tax cut for the poorest 40%.

The economic system is very simple. Money is transferred from everyone else to the very top. The people at the bottom are in despair. And they voted for Trump. More shafting.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2018, 11:26:32 AM
@EJDionne


"Conservatism of the Burkean variety tends to conserve settlements that seem to work, that deliver acceptable levels of prosperity and civil peace" & allow "social, economic & political experimentation." Charles Fried: The Roberts Court is not conservative

 Norman Ornstein

There will likely be five justices willing to blow up the essentials of democratic rule in a free and diverse republic. It will be a nakedly partisan set of decisions to enable a dwindling party minority to maintain control.

Hamilton and his counterparts deliberately created a system to provide safeguards against this kind of corrupt demagogue. They started with an independent Congress and an independent Supreme Court. Sadly, neither seem to be working


https://blog.harvardlawreview.org/not-conservative/

In several of the most controverted areas that the Court has entered and in which its decisions have had a profound effect on law and on our national life—voting rights, gerrymandering, affirmative action, abortion, campaign finance, and most recently mandatory agency fees to public sector unions—the Court has undermined or overturned precedents that embodied longstanding and difficult compromise settlements of sharply opposed interests and principles. These decisions are not the work of a conservative Court.

Prof. Garrett Epps

@Profepps

Replying to @isamuel

People don't understand. The court has already been packed, that Rubicon has been crossed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 16, 2018, 04:57:29 PM
Seriously lads . . .

WHAT THE f**k WAS THAT??!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on July 16, 2018, 05:28:01 PM
Absolutely mental :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 18, 2018, 07:39:45 AM
Republicans for the Rule of law. Imagine.

@BillKristol

Here's a new ad from Republicans for the Rule of Law urging Congress to act, post-Helsinki, to pass legislation to protect Mueller. (And don't tell us Trump walked back part of the comment we quote. That walk back was risible. Trump meant what he said and said what he meant.)

 https://mobile.twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1019356011877019648/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on July 18, 2018, 08:40:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 18, 2018, 07:39:45 AM
Republicans for the Rule of law. Imagine.

@BillKristol

Here's a new ad from Republicans for the Rule of Law urging Congress to act, post-Helsinki, to pass legislation to protect Mueller. (And don't tell us Trump walked back part of the comment we quote. That walk back was risible. Trump meant what he said and said what he meant.)

https://mobile.twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1019356011877019648/video/1

Easy mistake to make.

We all get would and wouldn't mixed up when talking about state intervention in elections.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on July 20, 2018, 02:11:44 PM
Gotta love the Trumpster. when in a hole the general consensus is to stop digging, but not Donnie;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44895384 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44895384)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 02:49:52 PM
The Republicans were always painting themselves as tough on national security. Trump has destroyed that.
He is so out of his depth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 20, 2018, 07:05:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.

Stay coherent?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.

Guess...?
I am really surprised at how often people fall for this trap of "this is gonna finally sink Trump with his supporters"

Which leads me to the following:
1. There is no general understanding of why people voted for him in the first place
2. Many of his opponents are as misguided as his supporters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 20, 2018, 07:50:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.

If he gets Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court they won't give 2 fvcks about Putin.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.

Guess...?
I am really surprised at how often people fall for this trap of "this is gonna finally sink Trump with his supporters"

Which leads me to the following:
1. There is no general understanding of why people voted for him in the first place
2. Many of his opponents are as misguided as his supporters
Trump women voters do more thinking than the men.
National security is supposed to be a GOP speciality. Trump shafted the US to plamas Putin.
That could sink a few candidates in November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on July 20, 2018, 09:23:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.

Guess...?
I am really surprised at how often people fall for this trap of "this is gonna finally sink Trump with his supporters"

Which leads me to the following:
1. There is no general understanding of why people voted for him in the first place
2. Many of his opponents are as misguided as his supporters
Trump women voters do more thinking than the men.
National security is supposed to be a GOP speciality. Trump shafted the US to plamas Putin.
That could sink a few candidates in November.

Bit of a storm in a teacup from Cohen? Or is it a big deal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.

Guess...?
I am really surprised at how often people fall for this trap of "this is gonna finally sink Trump with his supporters"

Which leads me to the following:
1. There is no general understanding of why people voted for him in the first place
2. Many of his opponents are as misguided as his supporters
Trump women voters do more thinking than the men.
National security is supposed to be a GOP speciality. Trump shafted the US to plamas Putin.
That could sink a few candidates in November.
Do they? Wouldn't be too sure about that.. you know many?

He'll hurt the GOP candidates I dont doubt that mostly by energizing the opposition and nothing in particular to do with Russia. The only way it would hurt him in particular is if he is found out to have done something illegal and has to leave office.
It wont hurt him in an election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.

Guess...?
I am really surprised at how often people fall for this trap of "this is gonna finally sink Trump with his supporters"

Which leads me to the following:
1. There is no general understanding of why people voted for him in the first place
2. Many of his opponents are as misguided as his supporters
Trump women voters do more thinking than the men.
National security is supposed to be a GOP speciality. Trump shafted the US to plamas Putin.
That could sink a few candidates in November.
Do they? Wouldn't be too sure about that.. you know many?

He'll hurt the GOP candidates I dont doubt that mostly by energizing the opposition and nothing in particular to do with Russia. The only way it would hurt him in particular is if he is found out to have done something illegal and has to leave office.
It wont hurt him in an election
I don't think he is that secure.
After the Putin presser in Helsinki he was watching feedback in Air Force One and it really pissed him off because a lot of commentators disagreed even on Fox
This was why he walked back on what he said the next day with wouldn't instead of would. I would be interested to see polling from the red states. If Trump is weak on Nat security and folks don't see no tax cut cos the gas price is up what do they see in him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 10:39:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsgccOuZ0qg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 11:00:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.

Guess...?
I am really surprised at how often people fall for this trap of "this is gonna finally sink Trump with his supporters"

Which leads me to the following:
1. There is no general understanding of why people voted for him in the first place
2. Many of his opponents are as misguided as his supporters
Trump women voters do more thinking than the men.
National security is supposed to be a GOP speciality. Trump shafted the US to plamas Putin.
That could sink a few candidates in November.
Do they? Wouldn't be too sure about that.. you know many?

He'll hurt the GOP candidates I dont doubt that mostly by energizing the opposition and nothing in particular to do with Russia. The only way it would hurt him in particular is if he is found out to have done something illegal and has to leave office.
It wont hurt him in an election
I don't think he is that secure.
After the Putin presser in Helsinki he was watching feedback in Air Force One and it really pissed him off because a lot of commentators disagreed even on Fox
This was why he walked back on what he said the next day with wouldn't instead of would. I would be interested to see polling from the red states. If Trump is weak on Nat security and folks don't see no tax cut cos the gas price is up what do they see in him?
Same thing as before... Someone who stands up and says the things they believe in...
He'll always blame someone else and turn them into villain of the week and its bought every-time.

You can believe what you want but his core supporters would never dessert him. In an election his biggest obstacle is the "anti-vote" he has energised but the Dems dont seem to have a candidate that can harness that energy in an election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 21, 2018, 09:38:07 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 11:00:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 20, 2018, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on July 20, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
The Trump hush money payment recordings should be interesting.

Cohen is going to be a big danger, all in the lead up to the mid terms...
Have a look at this

Shep Smith on Fox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rJ9LCHxi8o
Someone said that the big problem with lying all the time is trying to remember them all. Trump has the added problem of trying to stay coherent.
I wonder how the Trump base feels about the Prez being all loved up with Putin.

Guess...?
I am really surprised at how often people fall for this trap of "this is gonna finally sink Trump with his supporters"

Which leads me to the following:
1. There is no general understanding of why people voted for him in the first place
2. Many of his opponents are as misguided as his supporters
Trump women voters do more thinking than the men.
National security is supposed to be a GOP speciality. Trump shafted the US to plamas Putin.
That could sink a few candidates in November.
Do they? Wouldn't be too sure about that.. you know many?

He'll hurt the GOP candidates I dont doubt that mostly by energizing the opposition and nothing in particular to do with Russia. The only way it would hurt him in particular is if he is found out to have done something illegal and has to leave office.
It wont hurt him in an election
I don't think he is that secure.
After the Putin presser in Helsinki he was watching feedback in Air Force One and it really pissed him off because a lot of commentators disagreed even on Fox
This was why he walked back on what he said the next day with wouldn't instead of would. I would be interested to see polling from the red states. If Trump is weak on Nat security and folks don't see no tax cut cos the gas price is up what do they see in him?
Same thing as before... Someone who stands up and says the things they believe in...
He'll always blame someone else and turn them into villain of the week and its bought every-time.

You can believe what you want but his core supporters would never dessert him. In an election his biggest obstacle is the "anti-vote" he has energised but the Dems dont seem to have a candidate that can harness that energy in an election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2018, 09:59:03 PM
Manafort guilty on 8 counts of bank fraud

Michael Cohen just pled guilty to bank and tax fraud and election finance fraud - he's said he was directed to pay off women at the direction of Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 21, 2018, 11:05:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2018, 09:59:03 PM
Manafort guilty on 8 counts of bank fraud

Michael Cohen just pled guilty to bank and tax fraud and election finance fraud - he's said he was directed to pay off women at the direction of Trump

Shit's about to get real and just in time for the mid terms... I think it would be Ok having Pence as President as long as his hands are tied and he can't do anything with a Dem house.

What's clear as day through this all is that Mueller is a serious operator with a serious plan. He's been running the show quietly and efficiently building a case while the best Trump has to offer is Giuliani on the morning shows who is a complete moron "truth isn't truth"

Looks like we're in for an interesting few days!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2018, 11:25:39 PM
he has a rally later - that will be fun
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 22, 2018, 12:31:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 21, 2018, 11:05:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2018, 09:59:03 PM
Manafort guilty on 8 counts of bank fraud

Michael Cohen just pled guilty to bank and tax fraud and election finance fraud - he's said he was directed to pay off women at the direction of Trump

Shit's about to get real and just in time for the mid terms... I think it would be Ok having Pence as President as long as his hands are tied and he can't do anything with a Dem house.

What's clear as day through this all is that Mueller is a serious operator with a serious plan. He's been running the show quietly and efficiently building a case while the best Trump has to offer is Giuliani on the morning shows who is a complete moron "truth isn't truth"

Looks like we're in for an interesting few days!!!

Still don't see Donnie being removed because of any of this.

He'll ride it out as he always does.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 22, 2018, 03:54:10 PM
The Unindicted Co-Conspirator in Chief is going nowhere.

Fox News have already pronounced that it's all an irrelevant liberal plot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on August 22, 2018, 04:46:34 PM
foxnews.com's front page contains no headlines relating to mueller, manafort or cohen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 22, 2018, 06:06:33 PM
There wouldn't be many walking the streets if everyone was locked up for tax evasion or not telling the truth on loan Documents
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 22, 2018, 06:10:30 PM
Manafort bet on getting off the charges. Flynn decided to cooperate. The GOP admin is a whorehouse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 22, 2018, 06:33:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2018, 06:06:33 PM
There wouldn't be many walking the streets if everyone was locked up for tax evasion or not telling the truth on loan Documents
And still your reflex reaction is to defend, defend, defend.

The Trumpbots think they're supporting a football team.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 22, 2018, 06:43:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 22, 2018, 06:33:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2018, 06:06:33 PM
There wouldn't be many walking the streets if everyone was locked up for tax evasion or not telling the truth on loan Documents
And still your reflex reaction is to defend, defend, defend.

The Trumpbots think they're supporting a football team.
Trump has been so generous to middle class Americans as well. People do love their chains.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 22, 2018, 08:04:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2018, 06:06:33 PM
There wouldn't be many walking the streets if everyone was locked up for tax evasion or not telling the truth on loan Documents

That's like saying someone going up the road at 120 mph should be let off because we all go five or ten miles an hour over the speed limit.

Although Manafort must be kicking himself for ever thinking that selling access to Trump to the oligarchs would dig him out of his financial hole. Same with Cohen and his problems. And Flynn. And Gates. And the greek lad and so on. If only Trump hadn't run...

I share their pain! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on August 22, 2018, 08:21:28 PM
The kneejerk would be funny if it wasn't so chillingly telling of the success of the assault on reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 22, 2018, 08:29:13 PM
Wall to wall bullshit

https://mobile.twitter.com/foxandfriends/status/1032319321920430080/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 31, 2018, 09:49:57 PM
Well - the Orange One is coming in November
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 11, 2018, 04:47:10 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 31, 2018, 09:49:57 PM
Well - the Orange One is coming in November

Trip cancelled
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 12, 2018, 05:26:32 AM
3000 Americans dead as a result of Hurricane Maria

Trump "great success"

For context, that's more than died in the twin towers.

Florence currently off the coast of the Carolinas in endangering a lot more white people. Trump " we are as ready as anyone has ever been"

Sad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 12, 2018, 08:11:16 AM
Of course the GOP don't believe in climate change either
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 12, 2018, 05:15:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2018, 08:11:16 AM
Of course the GOP don't believe in climate change either

Its off the table in the southeastern states in terms of being considered for future planning for floods and so on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 12, 2018, 11:23:53 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 12, 2018, 05:26:32 AM
3000 Americans dead as a result of Hurricane Maria

Trump "great success"

For context, that's more than died in the twin towers.

Florence currently off the coast of the Carolinas in endangering a lot more white people. Trump " we are as ready as anyone has ever been"

Sad
what should he say about the coming hurricane?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 13, 2018, 12:48:10 AM
He already has said all the right things about this hurricane, taking the lead of Governors McMaster and Cooper. Now he should follow up by doing the right thing and fund FEMA so they can do their job properly. Maybe taking some money back from ICE to rebuild Puerto Rico would be a good start.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 13, 2018, 03:38:49 AM
Fake news Media on maximum outrage alert over the $10 M intra agency transfer of funds (which happens all the time). 

Im not a whiz at math, but by my calculations a grand total of 6/100 of ONE PERCENT of FEMAs $15,000,000,000 budget was trandferred to ICE. (correct me if im worng....I dont have a calculator)

I watched Joe and Mika on MSNBC lose their shit over this earlier today and its been all over the news.

I had to do my own research to find out that such transfers are actually commonplace within Governmental Agencies, and I also had to do my own research to find out what FEMAs budget is relative to the $10,000,000 transferred


Is it any wonder people have given up believing a fvckin word they hear on TV
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 13, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 03:38:49 AM
I had to do my own research to find out that such transfers are actually commonplace within Governmental Agencies, and I also had to do my own research to find out what FEMAs budget is relative to the $10,000,000 transferred

Really?

Here is an NPR article that mentions the total FEMA budget.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647021316/trump-administration-transferred-9-8-million-from-fema-to-ice

Here is a CNN article that mentions the "reprogramming" of funding that has happened between different DHS departments over multiple years.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/politics/ice-more-money-fema-dhs/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 13, 2018, 02:17:57 PM
Trump this morning calling the 3K death toll from Puerto Rico a Democratic hoax.

There are no words for what a disgusting, contemptible, sorry excuse for a human being he is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 13, 2018, 02:39:19 PM
Quote from: dec on September 13, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 03:38:49 AM
I had to do my own research to find out that such transfers are actually commonplace within Governmental Agencies, and I also had to do my own research to find out what FEMAs budget is relative to the $10,000,000 transferred

Really?

Here is an NPR article that mentions the total FEMA budget.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647021316/trump-administration-transferred-9-8-million-from-fema-to-ice

Here is a CNN article that mentions the "reprogramming" of funding that has happened between different DHS departments over multiple years.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/politics/ice-more-money-fema-dhs/index.html

ARTICLES

I said I was WATCHING not reading

Between 6 am and 9 am I saw this report on several channels and NOT ONE provided this context.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on September 13, 2018, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 02:39:19 PM
Quote from: dec on September 13, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 03:38:49 AM
I had to do my own research to find out that such transfers are actually commonplace within Governmental Agencies, and I also had to do my own research to find out what FEMAs budget is relative to the $10,000,000 transferred

Really?

Here is an NPR article that mentions the total FEMA budget.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647021316/trump-administration-transferred-9-8-million-from-fema-to-ice

Here is a CNN article that mentions the "reprogramming" of funding that has happened between different DHS departments over multiple years.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/politics/ice-more-money-fema-dhs/index.html

ARTICLES

I said I was WATCHING not reading

Between 6 am and 9 am I saw this report on several channels and NOT ONE provided this context.

It's a conspiracy 😂😂
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 13, 2018, 02:55:24 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on September 13, 2018, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 02:39:19 PM
Quote from: dec on September 13, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 03:38:49 AM
I had to do my own research to find out that such transfers are actually commonplace within Governmental Agencies, and I also had to do my own research to find out what FEMAs budget is relative to the $10,000,000 transferred

Really?

Here is an NPR article that mentions the total FEMA budget.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647021316/trump-administration-transferred-9-8-million-from-fema-to-ice

Here is a CNN article that mentions the "reprogramming" of funding that has happened between different DHS departments over multiple years.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/politics/ice-more-money-fema-dhs/index.html

ARTICLES

I said I was WATCHING not reading

Between 6 am and 9 am I saw this report on several channels and NOT ONE provided this context.

It's a conspiracy 😂😂
.


Your words not mine.

I would say it's incomplete information, lacking any context or perspective which is being used to drive a false narrative.


I imagine such transfers also took place under the Obama Administration as it seems to be a common practise. I dont remember seeing any headline and fomenting about that



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on September 13, 2018, 02:58:02 PM
Lighten up lads😳
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 14, 2018, 04:34:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 02:55:24 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on September 13, 2018, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 02:39:19 PM
Quote from: dec on September 13, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 03:38:49 AM
I had to do my own research to find out that such transfers are actually commonplace within Governmental Agencies, and I also had to do my own research to find out what FEMAs budget is relative to the $10,000,000 transferred

Really?

Here is an NPR article that mentions the total FEMA budget.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647021316/trump-administration-transferred-9-8-million-from-fema-to-ice

Here is a CNN article that mentions the "reprogramming" of funding that has happened between different DHS departments over multiple years.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/politics/ice-more-money-fema-dhs/index.html

ARTICLES

I said I was WATCHING not reading

Between 6 am and 9 am I saw this report on several channels and NOT ONE provided this context.

It's a conspiracy 😂😂
.


Your words not mine.

I would say it's incomplete information, lacking any context or perspective which is being used to drive a false narrative.


I imagine such transfers also took place under the Obama Administration as it seems to be a common practise. I dont remember seeing any headline and fomenting about that

Whitey:
The Trump White House moved $10 million from FEMA budget and another 29 million from the Coast Guard to fund incarcerating immigrant families..... which part of that is confusing. Yet you continue to obfuscate and pull false equivalence out of your a$$.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 14, 2018, 11:21:14 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/14/bob-woodward-interview-fear-trump-russia
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 14, 2018, 12:40:26 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 14, 2018, 04:34:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 02:55:24 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on September 13, 2018, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 02:39:19 PM
Quote from: dec on September 13, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 13, 2018, 03:38:49 AM
I had to do my own research to find out that such transfers are actually commonplace within Governmental Agencies, and I also had to do my own research to find out what FEMAs budget is relative to the $10,000,000 transferred

Really?

Here is an NPR article that mentions the total FEMA budget.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/647021316/trump-administration-transferred-9-8-million-from-fema-to-ice

Here is a CNN article that mentions the "reprogramming" of funding that has happened between different DHS departments over multiple years.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/politics/ice-more-money-fema-dhs/index.html

ARTICLES

I said I was WATCHING not reading

Between 6 am and 9 am I saw this report on several channels and NOT ONE provided this context.

It's a conspiracy 😂😂
.


Your words not mine.

I would say it's incomplete information, lacking any context or perspective which is being used to drive a false narrative.


I imagine such transfers also took place under the Obama Administration as it seems to be a common practise. I dont remember seeing any headline and fomenting about that

Whitey:
The Trump White House moved $10 million from FEMA budget and another 29 million from the Coast Guard to fund incarcerating immigrant families..... which part of that is confusing. Yet you continue to obfuscate and pull false equivalence out of your a$$.

They implied that it was significant (6/100 of 1%) unprecedented (happens all the time) and that it somehow would hinder the relief efforts of the impending disaster.

All complete bvllshit and a brazen effort to intentionally mislead people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 14, 2018, 12:42:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1mSjKZm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 15, 2018, 03:50:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 14, 2018, 12:40:26 PM

They implied that it was significant, unprecedented and that it somehow would hinder the relief efforts of the impending disaster.

All complete bvllshit and a brazen effort to intentionally mislead people

White, it has taken them a while but it seems as if the opposition has taken a leaf out of your teams book.

The sooner this whole nutjobs in the wings runming the show phase of US politics is over and there is a return to the center, and the well being of the American people is at the heart of anyone electable's strategy the better.

I think we are a bit short of that for now, and with the continuing tweets and press statements coming from 1600 Pennsylvania avenue making me year for the much more believable days of Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf.

On the bright side, in the long run, we are all dead...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 15, 2018, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 15, 2018, 03:50:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 14, 2018, 12:40:26 PM

They implied that it was significant, unprecedented and that it somehow would hinder the relief efforts of the impending disaster.

All complete bvllshit and a brazen effort to intentionally mislead people

White, it has taken them a while but it seems as if the opposition has taken a leaf out of your teams book.

The sooner this whole nutjobs in the wings runming the show phase of US politics is over and there is a return to the center, and the well being of the American people is at the heart of anyone electable's strategy the better.

I think we are a bit short of that for now, and with the continuing tweets and press statements coming from 1600 Pennsylvania avenue making me year for the much more believable days of Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf.

On the bright side, in the long run, we are all dead...

I'm sick to fvckin death of the lot of them......that's why I supported Bernie in 2016.

At least he calls it as he sees it. I disagree with him more than I agree with him but his intentions and agenda was rock solid

I also see the NY Times had to do a walk back on a disgraceful Nikki Haley "hit job". The only problem is that the curtains were ordered by the Obama administration in 2016. A blatant and disgraceful attempt to smear one of he few decent people Trump has working for him

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/new-york-times-nikki-haley-curtains-story-correction-2018-9
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
They issued a correction, as they should have.

I'd agree Haley is intelligent and appears to have a hell of a lot more integrity and principles than the rest of them.

However, extravagant spending and abuse of taxpayer money has kind of been a theme of Trump's cabinet. Zinke, Price, Pruitt, Mnuchin, and the FEMA lad this week, off the top of my head.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 15, 2018, 02:40:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
They issued a correction, as they should have.

I'd agree Haley is intelligent and appears to have a hell of a lot more integrity and principles than the rest of them.

However, extravagant spending and abuse of taxpayer money has kind of been a theme of Trump's cabinet. Zinke, Price, Pruitt, Mnuchin, and the FEMA lad this week, off the top of my head.

A correction, (but not an apology from what I can tell).

And it wasnt like they were correcting a MISTAKE.....it was an intentional and deliberate attempt at  misrepresentation. 

As ive said here a thousand times, i believe about  as much of what i read in the NY Times as I do of what I read on Breitbart

Maybe the Times sees Haley as a threat to Elizabeth Warren down the road and are trying to get out in front of her

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2018, 02:40:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
They issued a correction, as they should have.

I'd agree Haley is intelligent and appears to have a hell of a lot more integrity and principles than the rest of them.

However, extravagant spending and abuse of taxpayer money has kind of been a theme of Trump's cabinet. Zinke, Price, Pruitt, Mnuchin, and the FEMA lad this week, off the top of my head.

A correction, (but not an apology from what I can tell).

And it wasnt like they were correcting a MISTAKE.....it was an intentional and deliberate attempt at  misrepresentation. 

As ive said here a thousand times, i believe about  as much of what i read in the NY Times as I do of what I read on Breitbart

Maybe the Times sees Haley as a threat to Elizabeth Warren down the road and are trying to get out in front of her

I haven't seen the original article.

In what way was it an "intentional and deliberate attempt at misrepresentation"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on September 15, 2018, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2018, 02:40:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
They issued a correction, as they should have.

I'd agree Haley is intelligent and appears to have a hell of a lot more integrity and principles than the rest of them.

However, extravagant spending and abuse of taxpayer money has kind of been a theme of Trump's cabinet. Zinke, Price, Pruitt, Mnuchin, and the FEMA lad this week, off the top of my head.

A correction, (but not an apology from what I can tell).

And it wasnt like they were correcting a MISTAKE.....it was an intentional and deliberate attempt at  misrepresentation. 

As ive said here a thousand times, i believe about  as much of what i read in the NY Times as I do of what I read on Breitbart

Maybe the Times sees Haley as a threat to Elizabeth Warren down the road and are trying to get out in front of her


And each time I marvel at your enthusiasm in displaying your stupidity in this manner. False equivalence writ large.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 15, 2018, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2018, 02:40:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
They issued a correction, as they should have.

I'd agree Haley is intelligent and appears to have a hell of a lot more integrity and principles than the rest of them.

However, extravagant spending and abuse of taxpayer money has kind of been a theme of Trump's cabinet. Zinke, Price, Pruitt, Mnuchin, and the FEMA lad this week, off the top of my head.

A correction, (but not an apology from what I can tell).

And it wasnt like they were correcting a MISTAKE.....it was an intentional and deliberate attempt at  misrepresentation. 

As ive said here a thousand times, i believe about  as much of what i read in the NY Times as I do of what I read on Breitbart

Maybe the Times sees Haley as a threat to Elizabeth Warren down the road and are trying to get out in front of her

I haven't seen the original article.

In what way was it an "intentional and deliberate attempt at misrepresentation"?

Because they led with a headline and a picture of Nikki Haley, yet nonchalantly admitted deep down in the body of the article that it in fact was a decision made back in 2016

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/09/14/new-york-times-wrongs-nikki-haley-with-curtain-headline/?utm_term=.dc7101fca66b
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2018, 04:08:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2018, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2018, 02:40:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
They issued a correction, as they should have.

I'd agree Haley is intelligent and appears to have a hell of a lot more integrity and principles than the rest of them.

However, extravagant spending and abuse of taxpayer money has kind of been a theme of Trump's cabinet. Zinke, Price, Pruitt, Mnuchin, and the FEMA lad this week, off the top of my head.

A correction, (but not an apology from what I can tell).

And it wasnt like they were correcting a MISTAKE.....it was an intentional and deliberate attempt at  misrepresentation. 

As ive said here a thousand times, i believe about  as much of what i read in the NY Times as I do of what I read on Breitbart

Maybe the Times sees Haley as a threat to Elizabeth Warren down the road and are trying to get out in front of her

I haven't seen the original article.

In what way was it an "intentional and deliberate attempt at misrepresentation"?

Because they led with a headline and a picture of Nikki Haley, yet nonchalantly admitted deep down in the body of the article that it in fact was a decision made back in 2016

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/09/14/new-york-times-wrongs-nikki-haley-with-curtain-headline/?utm_term=.dc7101fca66b

Fair enough.

Sensational headline (which I would hope someone got a serious bollocking for, because, what's the point, even if you didn't care about honesty, especially with the Trump admin's proven record?) but if you read the actual article you'd find that while she is the first to use it, it was ordered by Obama's people.

I honestly hadn't heard a single word about this before you brought it up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 15, 2018, 04:32:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 04:08:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2018, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2018, 02:40:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
They issued a correction, as they should have.

I'd agree Haley is intelligent and appears to have a hell of a lot more integrity and principles than the rest of them.

However, extravagant spending and abuse of taxpayer money has kind of been a theme of Trump's cabinet. Zinke, Price, Pruitt, Mnuchin, and the FEMA lad this week, off the top of my head.

A correction, (but not an apology from what I can tell).

And it wasnt like they were correcting a MISTAKE.....it was an intentional and deliberate attempt at  misrepresentation. 

As ive said here a thousand times, i believe about  as much of what i read in the NY Times as I do of what I read on Breitbart

Maybe the Times sees Haley as a threat to Elizabeth Warren down the road and are trying to get out in front of her

I haven't seen the original article.

In what way was it an "intentional and deliberate attempt at misrepresentation"?

Because they led with a headline and a picture of Nikki Haley, yet nonchalantly admitted deep down in the body of the article that it in fact was a decision made back in 2016

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/09/14/new-york-times-wrongs-nikki-haley-with-curtain-headline/?utm_term=.dc7101fca66b

Fair enough.

Sensational headline (which I would hope someone got a serious bollocking for, because, what's the point, even if you didn't care about honesty, especially with the Trump admin's proven record?) but if you read the actual article you'd find that while she is the first to use it, it was ordered by Obama's people.

I honestly hadn't heard a single word about this before you brought it up.

As i have said from day 1, theres enough legitimate stuff to be outraged about......theres no need to make stuff up.

Making stuff up just helps Trump......told you so...NY Times.......FAKE NEWS!

On another note, if Kavanaugh gets on the Supreme Court next week, most conservatives I know will view this administration as a resounding success
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 20, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgum7H7g8w
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 21, 2018, 05:20:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgum7H7g8w
[/quote let's see how this movie does , bet its a flop people are sick of hypocrites like mike and his comrades
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 21, 2018, 07:58:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2018, 05:20:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgum7H7g8w
[/quote let's see how this movie does , bet its a flop people are sick of hypocrites like mike and his comrades
Polarisation is engineered.Polarised countries can't fix problems. Better for the plutocrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 21, 2018, 08:34:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2018, 05:20:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgum7H7g8w
let's see how this movie does , bet its a flop people are sick of hypocrites like mike and his comrades

Yes as demonstrated by Nike's increased sale this past 2 weeks.

But keep burning your sneakers there gmac you've already bought them so Nike couldn't care less but at least it makes you feel better!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on September 21, 2018, 08:41:42 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 21, 2018, 08:34:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2018, 05:20:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgum7H7g8w
let's see how this movie does , bet its a flop people are sick of hypocrites like mike and his comrades

Yes as demonstrated by Nike's increased sale this past 2 weeks.

But keep burning your sneakers there gmac you've already bought them so Nike couldn't care less but at least it makes you feel better!

What size are they? Are they a matching pair?😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 21, 2018, 02:11:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 21, 2018, 08:34:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2018, 05:20:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgum7H7g8w
let's see how this movie does , bet its a flop people are sick of hypocrites like mike and his comrades

Yes as demonstrated by Nike's increased sale this past 2 weeks.

But keep burning your sneakers there gmac you've already bought them so Nike couldn't care less but at least it makes you feel better!
im more of an under armorur man actually.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 21, 2018, 07:30:01 PM
$hits getting real
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2018, 08:40:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2018, 07:30:01 PM
$hits getting real

Rosenstein or Trump's mind-bogglingly idiotic (and callously intentional?) comments on Blasey Ford?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 22, 2018, 12:23:49 AM
Jesus US Politics is ruthless!!

https://youtu.be/IZuayQFD51w
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2018, 02:17:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 21, 2018, 08:34:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2018, 05:20:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgum7H7g8w
let's see how this movie does , bet its a flop people are sick of hypocrites like mike and his comrades

Yes as demonstrated by Nike's increased sale this past 2 weeks.

But keep burning your sneakers there gmac you've already bought them so Nike couldn't care less but at least it makes you feel better!
the irony  Kaepernick making lots of money for the old white men shareholders the dumbass probably doesn't even realize it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2018, 02:22:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2018, 08:40:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2018, 07:30:01 PM
$hits getting real

Rosenstein or Trump's mind-bogglingly idiotic (and callously intentional?) comments on Blasey Ford?
she doesn't even know what year this alledged assault occurred and she wants an fbi investigation into it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2018, 11:58:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2018, 02:22:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2018, 08:40:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2018, 07:30:01 PM
$hits getting real

Rosenstein or Trump's mind-bogglingly idiotic (and callously intentional?) comments on Blasey Ford?
she doesn't even know what year this alledged assault occurred and she wants an fbi investigation into it

Proving what, exactly?

I clearly remember unpleasant stuff happening to me in secondary school but I cannot say for sure which particular year it occurred.

I'm too young, but did Anita Hill have specific dates or months or years for her incidents with Clarence Thomas?

What about Weinstein's accusers? Bill Cosby? Roger Ailes? Les Moonves? Bill O'Reilly?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2018, 12:24:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2018, 11:58:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2018, 02:22:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2018, 08:40:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2018, 07:30:01 PM
$hits getting real

Rosenstein or Trump's mind-bogglingly idiotic (and callously intentional?) comments on Blasey Ford?
she doesn't even know what year this alledged assault occurred and she wants an fbi investigation into it

Proving what, exactly?

I clearly remember unpleasant stuff happening to me in secondary school but I cannot say for sure which particular year it occurred.

I'm too young, but did Anita Hill have specific dates or months or years for her incidents with Clarence Thomas?

What about Weinstein's accusers? Bill Cosby? Roger Ailes? Les Moonves? Bill O'Reilly?

Diane Feinstein didn't think there was much in it, otherwise she wouldnt have sat on it for close to two months. The dirtiest of dirty Democratic tricks that Ive ever seen

Im not too upset about it though.  The Republicans stole a nomination from Obama, now it looks like the Democrats are going to steal one from Trump.........you reap what you sew. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.

When he was forst nominated I heard several people say hed have a hard time getting through

There were plenty of other people he could have nominated
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2018, 01:34:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 12:24:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2018, 11:58:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2018, 02:22:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2018, 08:40:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2018, 07:30:01 PM
$hits getting real

Rosenstein or Trump's mind-bogglingly idiotic (and callously intentional?) comments on Blasey Ford?
she doesn't even know what year this alledged assault occurred and she wants an fbi investigation into it

Proving what, exactly?

I clearly remember unpleasant stuff happening to me in secondary school but I cannot say for sure which particular year it occurred.

I'm too young, but did Anita Hill have specific dates or months or years for her incidents with Clarence Thomas?

What about Weinstein's accusers? Bill Cosby? Roger Ailes? Les Moonves? Bill O'Reilly?

Diane Feinstein didn't think there was much in it, otherwise she wouldnt have sat on it for close to two months. The dirtiest of dirty Democratic tricks that Ive ever seen

Im not too upset about it though.  The Republicans stole a nomination from Obama, now it looks like the Democrats are going to steal one from Trump.........you reap what you sew.

Was anonymity not the issue (not saying it was well handled by the Dems BTW?).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.

When he was forst nominated I heard several people say hed have a hard time getting through

There were plenty of other people he could have nominated

Roe is going down no matter who they put forward.

And there will be a backlash to THAT in years to come.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.

When he was forst nominated I heard several people say hed have a hard time getting through

There were plenty of other people he could have nominated

Roe is going down no matter who they put forward.

And there will be a backlash to THAT in years to come.


So whoever Trump puts forward will be unacceptable......thats the type of attitude that has us in this place to begin with
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 02:40:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.

When he was forst nominated I heard several people say hed have a hard time getting through

There were plenty of other people he could have nominated

Roe is going down no matter who they put forward.

And there will be a backlash to THAT in years to come.



So whoever Trump puts forward will be unacceptable......thats the type of attitude that has us in this place to begin with
The GOP isn't anywhere near the centre these days. Even Nixon was closer than Trump is. Imagine today's GOP doing something about climate change
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2018, 12:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.

When he was forst nominated I heard several people say hed have a hard time getting through

There were plenty of other people he could have nominated

Roe is going down no matter who they put forward.

And there will be a backlash to THAT in years to come.


So whoever Trump puts forward will be unacceptable......thats the type of attitude that has us in this place to begin with

Wasn't airing an attitude, just making a prediction! Do you see it differently?

Roe is overturned, half the states ban abortion, throw in all the over stuff that will follow Kavanaugh's appointment - environmental protections, worker protections, consumer protections, racial/minority issues etc.

Suddenly the left becomes awakened to what the Supreme Court (and lower courts) means in US society and why it has been such a major plank of the conservative movement for the past 40 years.

Edit: I would add, on the no one being acceptable bit, that Trump is putting up judges chosen by the Federalist Society. There are no moderates, in terms of judicial and political philosophy, on that list. Obama nominated Garland, way more moderate than Sotameyer, for example,  in an attempt to meet the GOP at least a little bit of the way given their preemptive announcement that there would be no consideration given to him anyway. Trump would never countenance that, nor would he be allowed to. And that's fine. His and his administration's and party's choice. But you can't expect the Dems and left to just roll over and not react to what these nominees mean, especially once their rulings start to take effect.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 24, 2018, 01:07:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 12:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.

When he was forst nominated I heard several people say hed have a hard time getting through

There were plenty of other people he could have nominated

Roe is going down no matter who they put forward.

And there will be a backlash to THAT in years to come.


So whoever Trump puts forward will be unacceptable......thats the type of attitude that has us in this place to begin with

Wasn't airing an attitude, just making a prediction! Do you see it differently?

Roe is overturned, half the states ban abortion, throw in all the over stuff that will follow Kavanaugh's appointment - environmental protections, worker protections, consumer protections, racial/minority issues etc.

Suddenly the left becomes awakened to what the Supreme Court (and lower courts) means in US society and why it has been such a major plank of the conservative movement for the past 40 years.

Edit: I would add, on the no one being acceptable bit, that Trump is putting up judges chosen by the Federalist Society. There are no moderates, in terms of judicial and political philosophy, on that list. Obama nominated Garland, way more moderate than Sotameyer, for example,  in an attempt to meet the GOP at least a little bit of the way given their preemptive announcement that there would be no consideration given to him anyway. Trump would never countenance that, nor would he be allowed to. And that's fine. His and his administration's and party's choice. But you can't expect the Dems and left to just roll over and not react to what these nominees mean, especially once their rulings start to take effect.
J70

It's basically war between the GOP and the Dems. McConnell refused to follow procedure over Garland and he changed the voting target from 2/3 to a simple majority in order to set up a conservative majority for the next 30 years.

If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 01:51:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 12:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.

When he was forst nominated I heard several people say hed have a hard time getting through

There were plenty of other people he could have nominated

Roe is going down no matter who they put forward.

And there will be a backlash to THAT in years to come.


So whoever Trump puts forward will be unacceptable......thats the type of attitude that has us in this place to begin with

Wasn't airing an attitude, just making a prediction! Do you see it differently?

Roe is overturned, half the states ban abortion, throw in all the over stuff that will follow Kavanaugh's appointment - environmental protections, worker protections, consumer protections, racial/minority issues etc.

Suddenly the left becomes awakened to what the Supreme Court (and lower courts) means in US society and why it has been such a major plank of the conservative movement for the past 40 years.

Edit: I would add, on the no one being acceptable bit, that Trump is putting up judges chosen by the Federalist Society. There are no moderates, in terms of judicial and political philosophy, on that list. Obama nominated Garland, way more moderate than Sotameyer, for example,  in an attempt to meet the GOP at least a little bit of the way given their preemptive announcement that there would be no consideration given to him anyway. Trump would never countenance that, nor would he be allowed to. And that's fine. His and his administration's and party's choice. But you can't expect the Dems and left to just roll over and not react to what these nominees mean, especially once their rulings start to take effect.


Republicans stole a seat from Obama and now the Democrats are attempting to steal a seat from Trump.  The whole thing is a fvckin debacle

I love the way Republicans painted Garland as an extremist and yet, his and Kavanaughs voting records are almost identical

I love the way Democrats paint Kavanaugh as an extremist and yet, his and Garlands voting records are almost identical

All Democrats I know absolutely believe all of the allegations against Kavanaugh.

All Republicans I know absolutely believe the allegations against Kavanaugh are a dirty trick
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 24, 2018, 02:38:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2018, 02:17:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 21, 2018, 08:34:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2018, 05:20:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgum7H7g8w
let's see how this movie does , bet its a flop people are sick of hypocrites like mike and his comrades

Yes as demonstrated by Nike's increased sale this past 2 weeks.

But keep burning your sneakers there gmac you've already bought them so Nike couldn't care less but at least it makes you feel better!
the irony  Kaepernick making lots of money for the old white men shareholders the dumbass probably doesn't even realize it .
Why would that bother him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 01:51:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 12:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.

When he was forst nominated I heard several people say hed have a hard time getting through

There were plenty of other people he could have nominated

Roe is going down no matter who they put forward.

And there will be a backlash to THAT in years to come.


So whoever Trump puts forward will be unacceptable......thats the type of attitude that has us in this place to begin with

Wasn't airing an attitude, just making a prediction! Do you see it differently?

Roe is overturned, half the states ban abortion, throw in all the over stuff that will follow Kavanaugh's appointment - environmental protections, worker protections, consumer protections, racial/minority issues etc.

Suddenly the left becomes awakened to what the Supreme Court (and lower courts) means in US society and why it has been such a major plank of the conservative movement for the past 40 years.

Edit: I would add, on the no one being acceptable bit, that Trump is putting up judges chosen by the Federalist Society. There are no moderates, in terms of judicial and political philosophy, on that list. Obama nominated Garland, way more moderate than Sotameyer, for example,  in an attempt to meet the GOP at least a little bit of the way given their preemptive announcement that there would be no consideration given to him anyway. Trump would never countenance that, nor would he be allowed to. And that's fine. His and his administration's and party's choice. But you can't expect the Dems and left to just roll over and not react to what these nominees mean, especially once their rulings start to take effect.


Republicans stole a seat from Obama and now the Democrats are attempting to steal a seat from Trump.  The whole thing is a fvckin debacle

I love the way Republicans painted Garland as an extremist and yet, his and Kavanaughs voting records are almost identical

I love the way Democrats paint Kavanaugh as an extremist and yet, his and Garlands voting records are almost identical

All Democrats I know absolutely believe all of the allegations against Kavanaugh.

All Republicans I know absolutely believe the allegations against Kavanaugh are a dirty trick

Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

Society is just starting to reckon with the fall out from women finally saying "f**k you" to powerful sc**bag behaviour.  Plenty more careers are going to stall or end. Kavanaugh will probably be saved, career-wise, by politics, but I'd imagine this will take a serious personal toll.

In the judicial records, I'd say a lot of that is down to the uncontroversial, mundane nature of much of the caseload.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 03:37:15 PM
So Kavanaugh who has passed 6 in depth FBI background checks throughout his career is now accused of misconduct 35 years ago.

Neither accuser has ONE corrobarating witnesses to these misdeeds and all persons mentioned as possibly present when the attacks took place (both male and female) have all come out and said they never happened

As Harry Reid famously said when he lied about Mitt Romney on the Senate floor......"I don't  regret it at all.....Romney didn't wing, did he?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2018, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 03:37:15 PM
So Kavanaugh who has passed 6 in depth FBI background checks throughout his career is now accused of misconduct 35 years ago.

Neither accuser has ONE corrobarating witnesses to these misdeeds and all persons mentioned as possibly present when the attacks took place (both male and female) have all come out and said they never happened

As Harry Reid famously said when he lied about Mitt Romney on the Senate floor......"I don't  regret it at all.....Romney didn't wing, did he?

So YOU think they're lying?

I've passed government background checks. While I don't have any sexual misconduct in my history, if I did,  I'm not sure how it would ever have come up in any such checks once there were no reports made to authorities. And even if there were, the handling of sexual misconduct by schools and universities, which, in the US, have usually kept this stuff in-house, is historically fraught with problems of victim blaming, "his word against hers" and general sweeping under the carpet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 03:56:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 03:37:15 PM
So Kavanaugh who has passed 6 in depth FBI background checks throughout his career is now accused of misconduct 35 years ago.

Neither accuser has ONE corrobarating witnesses to these misdeeds and all persons mentioned as possibly present when the attacks took place (both male and female) have all come out and said they never happened

As Harry Reid famously said when he lied about Mitt Romney on the Senate floor......"I don't  regret it at all.....Romney didn't wing, did he?

So YOU think they're lying?

I've passed government background checks. While I don't have any sexual misconduct in my history, if I did,  I'm not sure how it would ever have come up in any such checks once there were no reports made to authorities. And even if there were, the handling of sexual misconduct by schools and universities, which, in the US, have usually kept this stuff in-house, is historically fraught with problems of victim blaming, "his word against hers" and general sweeping under the carpet.

Yes.....and if the Democrats thought Dr Ford was credible, they'd have sunk Kavanaugh back in July when they got the letter


Edit: If Feinstein did not conceal the letter, and conceal the accusation from the entire committee I would find the allegations significantly more credible. This was a last second Hail Mary attempt to details the nomination


2nd edit: if either accuser had just ONE corroborating witness, I would say Kavanaugh should withdraw.  Both accusers names names, and all those identified as witnesses said neither event happened
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 24, 2018, 04:04:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 03:37:15 PM
So Kavanaugh who has passed 6 in depth FBI background checks throughout his career is now accused of misconduct 35 years ago.

Neither accuser has ONE corrobarating witnesses to these misdeeds and all persons mentioned as possibly present when the attacks took place (both male and female) have all come out and said they never happened

As Harry Reid famously said when he lied about Mitt Romney on the Senate floor......"I don't  regret it at all.....Romney didn't wing, did he?
It's #metoo and POTUS is a sexual predator , Whitey
The US went down a strange rabbit hole.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2018, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 03:56:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 03:37:15 PM
So Kavanaugh who has passed 6 in depth FBI background checks throughout his career is now accused of misconduct 35 years ago.

Neither accuser has ONE corrobarating witnesses to these misdeeds and all persons mentioned as possibly present when the attacks took place (both male and female) have all come out and said they never happened

As Harry Reid famously said when he lied about Mitt Romney on the Senate floor......"I don't  regret it at all.....Romney didn't wing, did he?

So YOU think they're lying?

I've passed government background checks. While I don't have any sexual misconduct in my history, if I did,  I'm not sure how it would ever have come up in any such checks once there were no reports made to authorities. And even if there were, the handling of sexual misconduct by schools and universities, which, in the US, have usually kept this stuff in-house, is historically fraught with problems of victim blaming, "his word against hers" and general sweeping under the carpet.

Yes.....and if the Democrats thought Dr Ford was credible, they'd have sunk Kavanaugh back in July when they got the letter

The mind boggles.

1. They couldn't in July because she wanted to remain anonymous.

2. You'll have to explain to me why Ford would do this, putting her career and reputation in jeopardy , as well as subjecting her and her loved ones to intense media scrutiny and physical threats, including death, which have driven her into hiding.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 24, 2018, 04:22:23 PM
Whitey,
My own limited experience has Republican men completely believe this is a trumped up charge.

On the other hand, Republican (very very Republican) women are not comfortable and are urging another conservative nomination asap in case of mid term calamity for the party. They fear that the blocking of Garland will mean that the Dems will hold off on approving any nominee on Trump term 1 ( of a likely 2)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 24, 2018, 04:24:28 PM
Rosenstein out is not a good look for the GOP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 04:35:18 PM
Republicans created this entire mess so I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2018, 04:37:23 PM
You'd swear these people think that making up a charge like this is akin to a child lying to his parents about some minor misdeed, with no consideration of consequences beyond the moment. They seem to have no appreciation of the problems women have historically faced when it comes to dealing with sexual assault and abuse, in all its forms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 04:37:23 PM
You'd swear these people think that making up a charge like this is akin to a child lying to his parents about some minor misdeed, with no consideration of consequences beyond the moment. They seem to have no appreciation of the problems women have historically faced when it comes to dealing with sexual assault and abuse, in all its forms.

If allegations of this vintage, with no corrobarating witnesses and timed to specifically derail the vote on Kavanaughcame out against a Democrat, I would be equally as skeptical

If every politician, judge and public official is held to account for their actions as drunken teenagers I'm sure 90% will turfed our of office
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 24, 2018, 04:56:37 PM
The issue from yesterday's discussion was why in the world would a successful woman destroy her life to become a footnote in history unless she absolutely and firmly believe that BKs actions that far back were heinous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 24, 2018, 04:58:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 04:37:23 PM
You'd swear these people think that making up a charge like this is akin to a child lying to his parents about some minor misdeed, with no consideration of consequences beyond the moment. They seem to have no appreciation of the problems women have historically faced when it comes to dealing with sexual assault and abuse, in all its forms.

If allegations of this vintage, with no corrobarating witnesses and timed to specifically derail the vote on Kavanaughcame out against a Democrat, I would be equally as skeptical

If every politician, judge and public official is held to account for their actions as drunken teenagers I'm sure 90% will turfed our of office

And are you saying that is a bad thing? Maybe we shouldn't be doing that as drunken teenagers...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2018, 05:00:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 04:37:23 PM
You'd swear these people think that making up a charge like this is akin to a child lying to his parents about some minor misdeed, with no consideration of consequences beyond the moment. They seem to have no appreciation of the problems women have historically faced when it comes to dealing with sexual assault and abuse, in all its forms.

If allegations of this vintage, with no corrobarating witnesses and timed to specifically derail the vote on Kavanaughcame out against a Democrat, I would be equally as skeptical

If every politician, judge and public official is held to account for their actions as drunken teenagers I'm sure 90% will turfed our of office

I've no issue with skepticism. You said she was lying.

On the second point, I agree.

But where do you draw the line? Perhaps young people need some examples to show that actions can have serious repercussions in later life? Quite a few states in the US insist on trying teenagers of varying ages as adults.  Their lives are often, for all intents and purposes, over, depending on what they did (we'll not get into the money and racial aspects of the justice system).

Lets say that (as might happen these days) someone had a video of Kavanaugh exposing himself (as per the newer allegation). Would that merit his withdrawal, 30 years later?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 05:12:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 24, 2018, 04:58:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 04:37:23 PM
You'd swear these people think that making up a charge like this is akin to a child lying to his parents about some minor misdeed, with no consideration of consequences beyond the moment. They seem to have no appreciation of the problems women have historically faced when it comes to dealing with sexual assault and abuse, in all its forms.

If allegations of this vintage, with no corrobarating witnesses and timed to specifically derail the vote on Kavanaughcame out against a Democrat, I would be equally as skeptical

If every politician, judge and public official is held to account for their actions as drunken teenagers I'm sure 90% will turfed our of office

And are you saying that is a bad thing? Maybe we shouldn't be doing that as drunken teenagers...

What was accepted or ignored 30 years ago is no longer accepted or ignored today. The amount of groping that used to go on at teenage discos years ago would be front page news today.

If we go back and hold everyone to account for all uncorroborated and unproven allegations against  them I think you'll be looking at a very long list of resignations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 05:16:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 05:00:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 04:37:23 PM
You'd swear these people think that making up a charge like this is akin to a child lying to his parents about some minor misdeed, with no consideration of consequences beyond the moment. They seem to have no appreciation of the problems women have historically faced when it comes to dealing with sexual assault and abuse, in all its forms.

If allegations of this vintage, with no corrobarating witnesses and timed to specifically derail the vote on Kavanaughcame out against a Democrat, I would be equally as skeptical

If every politician, judge and public official is held to account for their actions as drunken teenagers I'm sure 90% will turfed our of office

I've no issue with skepticism. You said she was lying.

On the second point, I agree.

But where do you draw the line? Perhaps young people need some examples to show that actions can have serious repercussions in later life? Quite a few states in the US insist on trying teenagers of varying ages as adults.  Their lives are often, for all intents and purposes, over, depending on what they did (we'll not get into the money and racial aspects of the justice system).

Lets say that (as might happen these days) someone had a video of Kavanaugh exposing himself (as per the newer allegation). Would that merit his withdrawal, 30 years later?

The timing of the accusations combined with the Democratic antics at the hearings lead me to believe this is indeed a dirty trick by the Dmocrats. They tried everything else to derail Kavanaugh and it didn't work, so they roll of allegations from 35 years ago that can neither be proven or disproven.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 24, 2018, 05:27:11 PM
Timing is everything folks. Timing is everything...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2018, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 05:16:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 05:00:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 04:37:23 PM
You'd swear these people think that making up a charge like this is akin to a child lying to his parents about some minor misdeed, with no consideration of consequences beyond the moment. They seem to have no appreciation of the problems women have historically faced when it comes to dealing with sexual assault and abuse, in all its forms.

If allegations of this vintage, with no corrobarating witnesses and timed to specifically derail the vote on Kavanaughcame out against a Democrat, I would be equally as skeptical

If every politician, judge and public official is held to account for their actions as drunken teenagers I'm sure 90% will turfed our of office

I've no issue with skepticism. You said she was lying.

On the second point, I agree.

But where do you draw the line? Perhaps young people need some examples to show that actions can have serious repercussions in later life? Quite a few states in the US insist on trying teenagers of varying ages as adults.  Their lives are often, for all intents and purposes, over, depending on what they did (we'll not get into the money and racial aspects of the justice system).

Lets say that (as might happen these days) someone had a video of Kavanaugh exposing himself (as per the newer allegation). Would that merit his withdrawal, 30 years later?

The timing of the accusations combined with the Democratic antics at the hearings lead me to believe this is indeed a dirty trick by the Dmocrats. They tried everything else to derail Kavanaugh and it didn't work, so they roll of allegations from 35 years ago that can neither be proven or disproven.

Its the job of the senate to grill an appointee to a very influential lifetime post. Would you prefer the ludicrous softball approach to Kavanaugh of the GOP, posing him tough questions on coaching his daughter's basketball team? Senators are notorious for grandstanding. What else is new?

As for the timing, again, Ford wanted anonymity. The fact that she is now in hiding demonstrates why. Perhaps Feinstein could have forewarned her party and Grassley, but what difference does it make, in reality, what the timing of the release was? Were Grassley and Trump going to pull Kavanaugh back in July or August on the basis of an anonymous accuser? The Senate still hasn't voted and has the chance to look into the matter before doing so. They could spend the next two weeks questioning all the various people (including Judge) and still have a four week cushion until the mid-term, during which Trump will take this story off the front pages with three or more new lows of presidential conduct. The Rosenstein-Mueller circus is warming up as we speak...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 05:57:08 PM
Pardon my skepticism, but after seeing what the Clinton campaign pulled with Fusion GPS and the phony dossier, I am not willing to give Feinstein the benefit of the doubt.   Its a fvckin scam of epic proportions that they are trying to pull off here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2018, 06:07:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 05:57:08 PM
Pardon my skepticism, but after seeing what the Clinton campaign pulled with Fusion GPS and the phony dossier, I am not willing to give Feinstein the benefit of the doubt.   Its a fvckin scam of epic proportions that they are trying to pull off here

How is the "scam" supposed to play out?

Is Ford a paid actress ( the dick exposee too?).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 06:16:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 06:07:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 05:57:08 PM
Pardon my skepticism, but after seeing what the Clinton campaign pulled with Fusion GPS and the phony dossier, I am not willing to give Feinstein the benefit of the doubt.   Its a fvckin scam of epic proportions that they are trying to pull off here

How is the "scam" supposed to play out?

Is Ford a paid actress ( the dick exposee too?).

Between both alleged incidents theres (something like) 10 named witnesses and NOT ONE WITNESS can corroborate any of the accusers claims. In fact, some (if not all) "witnesses" claims the gatherings in question didnt even take place.

But again, you believe what you want because it suits your agenda, and I believe what I want because it suits my agenda.

Edit: And Im not looking for all 10 to come forward. If ONE came forward that would be good enough for me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2018, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 06:16:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 06:07:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 05:57:08 PM
Pardon my skepticism, but after seeing what the Clinton campaign pulled with Fusion GPS and the phony dossier, I am not willing to give Feinstein the benefit of the doubt.   Its a fvckin scam of epic proportions that they are trying to pull off here

How is the "scam" supposed to play out?

Is Ford a paid actress ( the dick exposee too?).

Between both alleged incidents theres (something like) 10 named witnesses and NOT ONE WITNESS can corroborate any of the accusers claims. In fact, some (if not all) "witnesses" claims the gatherings in question didnt even take place.

But again, you believe what you want because it suits your agenda, and I believe what I want because it suits my agenda.

Edit: And Im not looking for all 10 to come forward. If ONE came forward that would be good enough for me

She alleges she, Kavanaugh and Judge in the room and a few more in the house. If the others in the house were oblivious to what was going on (and why wouldn't they be), especially with drinking teenagers involved, why would they have ANY recollection of what happened back then? How many parties do YOU remember specifically being at and when, especially when you were hammered?

Sorry, it's just strains credulity, to me, that a woman like Ford would make up and publicize something like this all those years later. It doesn't make any sense.

Christ, one of Kavanaugh's conservative mates, then and now, tried to pin the blame on a different lad from their class, naming him and all!

And I've no agenda here beyond questioning why anyone would make up something like this and go public under these circumstances. Kavanaugh will clearly be seated regardless, so it's not like I'm here desperately hoping otherwise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 08:15:21 PM
Haha...."the others in the house" are saying no such party even took place, not that they were there and didn't see anything

It strains credulity to be that one presidential campaign would pay for and then leak a fake dossier to the FBI that was (at least in part) used to wiretap their opponents campaign........but it happened!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 24, 2018, 09:03:42 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/24/americas-era-of-climate-mass-migration-is-here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on September 24, 2018, 09:07:56 PM
Does it do in anyone else's head the way they pronounce Cavanagh?

cauv-aw-naw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2018, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 24, 2018, 09:07:56 PM
Does it do in anyone else's head the way they pronounce Cavanagh?

cauv-aw-naw

He has an Americanized version.....Kavanaugh.....notnthat it would stop them mispronouncing it even if it was spelled the right way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2018, 11:38:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 08:15:21 PM
Haha...."the others in the house" are saying no such party even took place, not that they were there and didn't see anything



Why has Kavanaugh been discussing a defence that admits something happened - but with somebody else?

An entirely innocent person, like.

That should be disqualifying in and of itself, from the entire judiciary, not just this appointment.

As should his perjury.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 25, 2018, 12:03:20 AM
Same old shite.

Everything is viewed through one lens.

It's all going to be about who can get the votes out in the mid term and whether Trump's 2 years of making the rich richer and the poor poorer is considered a win by the conservatives and Christians who want to preserve their sterilized version of 1950s Americana via the supreme Court and short sighted immigration policies which harm the overall economy but preserve the Republican majority. The targeted "bring out the vote" in key areas machinery is exceptional and they play the same consistent message to their base over and over, to the point that it goes unquestioned.

On the other side you have a rudderless reaction culture with no agenda, no leader and no plan to unite against the navel gazing of the right and the abdication from global prominence and global leadership of the last 60 years. They are too busy in fighting and positioning for a 2024 run that to take any stance that could make a difference. It doesn't matter how many protest marches for the theme of the moment the Democrats run, they haven't set out a plan or an agenda other than"well, we're not Trump"


Used to be the office of President was the leader of the Free world, sadly now it's the leader of the electoral college system. And I don't see an elephant nor a donkey anywhere that is likely to change that any time soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 04:53:52 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 25, 2018, 12:03:20 AM
Same old shite.

Everything is viewed through one lens.

It's all going to be about who can get the votes out in the mid term and whether Trump's 2 years of making the rich richer and the poor poorer is considered a win by the conservatives and Christians who want to preserve their sterilized version of 1950s Americana via the supreme Court and short sighted immigration policies which harm the overall economy but preserve the Republican majority. The targeted "bring out the vote" in key areas machinery is exceptional and they play the same consistent message to their base over and over, to the point that it goes unquestioned.

On the other side you have a rudderless reaction culture with no agenda, no leader and no plan to unite against the navel gazing of the right and the abdication from global prominence and global leadership of the last 60 years. They are too busy in fighting and positioning for a 2024 run that to take any stance that could make a difference. It doesn't matter how many protest marches for the theme of the moment the Democrats run, they haven't set out a plan or an agenda other than"well, we're not Trump"


Used to be the office of President was the leader of the Free world, sadly now it's the leader of the electoral college system. And I don't see an elephant nor a donkey anywhere that is likely to change that any time soon.
Things have to get a lot worse for the Dems to start thinking about serving their voters. They are still working for the donor class. And the stock market is high. But there will be another crash.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 04:59:51 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/24/brett-kavanaugh-third-woman-expected-to-make-accusations-of-sexual-misconduct
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 07:54:38 AM
Avenatti's twitter account is interesting
And the US is hopelessly polarised.


Michael Avenatti

@MichaelAvenatti
·
6h

Looking forward to being on
@CuomoPrimeTime
and
@maddow
tonight to discuss Brett Kavanaugh, Mark Judge and my clients.

Ms M@TheCoalitionOfTheDecent
@MsM2U1
·
5h

...with a nice glass of Pinot Grigio

11


59



Jennifer Louden
@j_louden
·
5h

Me with a nice glass of Pinot Noir!


Michael Avenatti

@MichaelAvenatti
·
14h

.
@GOPChairwoman
: Any time you would like to compare my track record over the last 7 mos. with yours or Trump's relating to the credibility of info and stmts, I would be happy to. Not a single thing I have said in countless interviews over the last 7 mos. has proven to be false.
Quote Tweet
Ronna McDaniel

@GOPChairwoman
How do we know this is a baseless smear against Judge Kavanaugh?
1) No witnesses.
2) No corroborating evidence.
3) Michael Avenatti is involved.

Ruth Barbetta
@Ruthbarbetta
·
15h

Replying to
@GOPChairwoman
and
@AdvertisingLaw
Notice how they block out Kavanaugh defence and set him up to be the big bad wolf because he stood for America and couldn't be bought off. Their evil knows no bounds... #MAGA
@realDonaldTrump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 09:01:55 AM
Michael Avenatti

@MichaelAvenatti
·
Sep 24

Brett Kavanaugh must also be asked about this entry in his yearbook: "FFFFFFFourth of July." We believe that this stands for: Find them, French them, Feel them, Finger them, F*ck them, Forget them. As well as the term "Devil's Triangle." Perhaps Sen. Grassley can ask him. #Basta
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 09:29:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2018, 01:51:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 12:29:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 22, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Kavanaugh is an extremist anyway. If Roe v Wade goes the GOP will lose a lot of female voters on top of all the blue collar folks it is shafting.

When he was forst nominated I heard several people say hed have a hard time getting through

There were plenty of other people he could have nominated

Roe is going down no matter who they put forward.

And there will be a backlash to THAT in years to come.


So whoever Trump puts forward will be unacceptable......thats the type of attitude that has us in this place to begin with

Wasn't airing an attitude, just making a prediction! Do you see it differently?

Roe is overturned, half the states ban abortion, throw in all the over stuff that will follow Kavanaugh's appointment - environmental protections, worker protections, consumer protections, racial/minority issues etc.

Suddenly the left becomes awakened to what the Supreme Court (and lower courts) means in US society and why it has been such a major plank of the conservative movement for the past 40 years.

Edit: I would add, on the no one being acceptable bit, that Trump is putting up judges chosen by the Federalist Society. There are no moderates, in terms of judicial and political philosophy, on that list. Obama nominated Garland, way more moderate than Sotameyer, for example,  in an attempt to meet the GOP at least a little bit of the way given their preemptive announcement that there would be no consideration given to him anyway. Trump would never countenance that, nor would he be allowed to. And that's fine. His and his administration's and party's choice. But you can't expect the Dems and left to just roll over and not react to what these nominees mean, especially once their rulings start to take effect.


Republicans stole a seat from Obama and now the Democrats are attempting to steal a seat from Trump.  The whole thing is a fvckin debacle

I love the way Republicans painted Garland as an extremist and yet, his and Kavanaughs voting records are almost identical

I love the way Democrats paint Kavanaugh as an extremist and yet, his and Garlands voting records are almost identical

All Democrats I know absolutely believe all of the allegations against Kavanaugh.

All Republicans I know absolutely believe the allegations against Kavanaugh are a dirty trick

Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

Society is just starting to reckon with the fall out from women finally saying "f**k you" to powerful sc**bag behaviour.  Plenty more careers are going to stall or end. Kavanaugh will probably be saved, career-wise, by politics, but I'd imagine this will take a serious personal toll.

In the judicial records, I'd say a lot of that is down to the uncontroversial, mundane nature of much of the caseload.
It may be a tough call for the GOP. If Kavanaugh goes through after a shitstorm it will cost them serious numbers of votes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 12:49:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.
GOP voters aren't enough for a majority. The conservative agenda no longer features fiscal conservatism either. The mid terms will be worth following.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:59:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 12:49:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.
GOP voters aren't enough for a majority. The conservative agenda no longer features fiscal conservatism either. The mid terms will be worth following.

The Senate map is heavily stacked against the Democrats though.

There are only four seats which are possible or even plausible gains for them. Three of these are in states which always vote Republican in presidential elections.

Then there are six or seven seats they are defending in states which always vote Republican in presidential elections.

Between these two sets of seats, they have to make a net gain of 2. That's a long shot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices

The GOP works for the rich. Dumping environmental Regs is in nobody's interest. Neither were the tax cuts
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/24/americas-era-of-climate-mass-migration-is-here
« By the end of this century, sea level rise alone could displace 13 million people, according to one study, including 6 million in Florida. States including Louisiana, California, New York and New Jersey will also have to grapple with hordes of residents seeking dry ground.

Not everyone can afford to move, so whole communities  could end up with trapped populations that would be in a downward spiral. I have a hard time imagining what that future would be like."

By the end of the century, 6ft of sea level rise would redraw the coastline with familiar parts – such as southern Florida, chunks of North Carolina and Virginia, much of Boston, all but a sliver of New Orleans – missing. Warming temperatures will fuel monstrous hurricanes – like the devastating triumvirate of Irma, Maria and Harvey in 2017, followed by Florence this year – that will scatter survivors in jarring, uncertain  ways »

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 25, 2018, 02:07:17 PM
You know what the funny thing is the replacement for Brett is a woman who's name escapes me but she makes Brett look like a liberal so the Dems might get what they want but not exactly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 03:35:35 PM
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/50/divided-we-stand/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2018, 05:26:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices

As opposed to the party of white grievance.

All those immigrants and black people changing the literal face of the country when no one asked the likes of Laura Ingraham and her fellow white, christian travelers.

Trump IS the GOP and the dominant force in conservatism. We will see how the conservative dissenters get on in a few weeks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Chicago Hurling on September 25, 2018, 05:54:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices

::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on September 25, 2018, 06:11:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.

Thanks Doc.

Have you even taken the time to review the "Allegations" of the second person, the fact that not one person from the dormitory can recall incident, including her best friend who she shared everything with, is disturbing to say the least.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 07:21:30 PM
John Harwood
@JohnJHarwood
·
3h
when Trump said his administration may have accomplished more than any in American history, members of UN General Assembly laughed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2018, 08:39:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 07:21:30 PM
John Harwood
@JohnJHarwood
·
3h
when Trump said his administration may have accomplished more than any in American history, members of UN General Assembly laughed

Lincoln, FDR, Washington, Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, LBJ, Reagan, Eisenhower ... amateurs!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 25, 2018, 09:50:50 PM
Michael Avenatti seems to be the new face of the Democratic Party
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 25, 2018, 09:56:52 PM
i think today we hit maximum irony.

in a speech to the United Nations, who has 4 founding principles including:

To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion;

the representative of 48% of voting Americans and 32% of the nations collective IQ said these 2 classics:

1)" America is governed by Americans. We reject the ideology of globalism, and we embrace the doctrine of patriotism."

and of course:

2)  the United States will provide no support in recognition to the International Criminal Court. As far as America is concerned, the ICC has no jurisdiction, no legitimacy, and no authority. The ICC claims near-universal jurisdiction over the citizens of every country, violating all principles of justice, fairness, and due process.

Now what you didn't know is that apparently there are a lot of mid western right wing voters hiding out in the UN which is why there was a pitch for the electoral votes of the UN council;

"In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country.

America's — so true. ( UN- Laughter.) Didn't expect that reaction, but that's okay. ( UN more laughter and applause.)"

(anything in quotes is from the official transcript)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 25, 2018, 10:56:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before

Then why was there none of this type of thing for Gorsuch's confirmation??

Kavanaugh isn't fit for the Supreme Court plain and simple!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 26, 2018, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.

I take it you have never heard of Charlie Baker then....the Republican Governor of Massachusetts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/25/more-democrats-give-high-marks-charlie-baker-than-republicans-survey-finds/xmOKfMhxPoBCJwRk5XIDZO/amp.html

Open you mind beyond the talking points you pick up from CNN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 26, 2018, 01:21:41 AM
"patriotism not globalism."

How about this for a talking point- what sort of a dumb shit got elected president of the United States, and what sort of a dumb shit is writing his speeches.

The greatest minds of the GOP advised a defence akin to:
You can't find me guilty of attempted murder when I was 18, I didn't legally kill anyone until much later in my life.

Impressive news reporting from the indianapolis star...

Hopefully the rest is implied...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 06:04:09 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 26, 2018, 01:21:41 AM
"patriotism not globalism."

How about this for a talking point- what sort of a dumb shit got elected president of the United States, and what sort of a dumb shit is writing his speeches.

The greatest minds of the GOP advised a defence akin to:
You can't find me guilty of attempted murder when I was 18, I didn't legally kill anyone until much later in my life.

Impressive news reporting from the indianapolis star...

Hopefully the rest is implied...
Stephen Miller probably wrote the speech
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2018, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.

I take it you have never heard of Charlie Baker then....the Republican Governor of Massachusetts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/25/more-democrats-give-high-marks-charlie-baker-than-republicans-survey-finds/xmOKfMhxPoBCJwRk5XIDZO/amp.html

Open you mind beyond the talking points you pick up from CNN

And the likes of Montana has a Democratic governor, despite being deep red in national elections.

How would Baker, with his social positions, get on in front of the GOP presidential primary/caucus crowd? Or his Vermont counterpart?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2018, 12:22:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2018, 09:50:50 PM
Michael Avenatti seems to be the new face of the Democratic Party

I thought yez were trying to force that mantle onto Ocasio-Cortez?

The difference IS, that the GOP has, in the real world, crowned an appalling extremist as their leader and biggest influence. Come back to us when the Dems do the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 26, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2018, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.

I take it you have never heard of Charlie Baker then....the Republican Governor of Massachusetts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/25/more-democrats-give-high-marks-charlie-baker-than-republicans-survey-finds/xmOKfMhxPoBCJwRk5XIDZO/amp.html

Open you mind beyond the talking points you pick up from CNN

And the likes of Montana has a Democratic governor, despite being deep red in national elections.

How would Baker, with his social positions, get on in front of the GOP presidential primary/caucus crowd? Or his Vermont counterpart?

The problem is that there are plenty of moderate Republicans out there, but by the time the Democrats are done with their character assassination they haven't a hope of getting elected.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2018, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.

I take it you have never heard of Charlie Baker then....the Republican Governor of Massachusetts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/25/more-democrats-give-high-marks-charlie-baker-than-republicans-survey-finds/xmOKfMhxPoBCJwRk5XIDZO/amp.html

Open you mind beyond the talking points you pick up from CNN

And the likes of Montana has a Democratic governor, despite being deep red in national elections.

How would Baker, with his social positions, get on in front of the GOP presidential primary/caucus crowd? Or his Vermont counterpart?

The problem is that there are plenty of moderate Republicans out there, but by the time the Democrats are done with their character assassination they haven't a hope of getting elected.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html
So nothing to do with who funds the GOP , then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2018, 01:57:21 PM
The nut jobbery of Republicans is nothing to do with Republicans, it's all the Democrats fault.

"Personal responsibility", eh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 26, 2018, 02:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2018, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.

I take it you have never heard of Charlie Baker then....the Republican Governor of Massachusetts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/25/more-democrats-give-high-marks-charlie-baker-than-republicans-survey-finds/xmOKfMhxPoBCJwRk5XIDZO/amp.html

Open you mind beyond the talking points you pick up from CNN

And the likes of Montana has a Democratic governor, despite being deep red in national elections.

How would Baker, with his social positions, get on in front of the GOP presidential primary/caucus crowd? Or his Vermont counterpart?

The problem is that there are plenty of moderate Republicans out there, but by the time the Democrats are done with their character assassination they haven't a hope of getting elected.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html
So nothing to do with who funds the GOP , then.

You mean people like George Soros or Tom Steyer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2018, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2018, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.

I take it you have never heard of Charlie Baker then....the Republican Governor of Massachusetts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/25/more-democrats-give-high-marks-charlie-baker-than-republicans-survey-finds/xmOKfMhxPoBCJwRk5XIDZO/amp.html

Open you mind beyond the talking points you pick up from CNN

And the likes of Montana has a Democratic governor, despite being deep red in national elections.

How would Baker, with his social positions, get on in front of the GOP presidential primary/caucus crowd? Or his Vermont counterpart?

The problem is that there are plenty of moderate Republicans out there, but by the time the Democrats are done with their character assassination they haven't a hope of getting elected.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html

It's all the Dem's fault that moderate Republicans are dropping like flies, either failing in the primaries or retiring?

Nothing to do with the extremism of the Republican base?

It's the Dem's fault that the only GOPers with the balls to even half-heartedly stand up to Trump are the ones not running for re-election?

It has NOTHING to do with the GOP's embrace and manipulation of white Christian fear and resentment, going all the back to Nixon?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 03:13:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 02:28:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2018, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.

I take it you have never heard of Charlie Baker then....the Republican Governor of Massachusetts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/25/more-democrats-give-high-marks-charlie-baker-than-republicans-survey-finds/xmOKfMhxPoBCJwRk5XIDZO/amp.html

Open you mind beyond the talking points you pick up from CNN

And the likes of Montana has a Democratic governor, despite being deep red in national elections.

How would Baker, with his social positions, get on in front of the GOP presidential primary/caucus crowd? Or his Vermont counterpart?

The problem is that there are plenty of moderate Republicans out there, but by the time the Democrats are done with their character assassination they haven't a hope of getting elected.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html
So nothing to do with who funds the GOP , then.

You mean people like George Soros or Tom Steyer

Polarisation is paid for in the US and Europe. It means problems don't get solved.
The same process is visible in France btw.
Working and middle class GOP voters have more in common with their Dem equivalents than they have with the Kochs.
The US needs institutions that reflect this.
The alternative is not worth thinking about.

https://youtu.be/lpWS1dlm5i8


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 26, 2018, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2018, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2018, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.

I take it you have never heard of Charlie Baker then....the Republican Governor of Massachusetts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/25/more-democrats-give-high-marks-charlie-baker-than-republicans-survey-finds/xmOKfMhxPoBCJwRk5XIDZO/amp.html

Open you mind beyond the talking points you pick up from CNN

And the likes of Montana has a Democratic governor, despite being deep red in national elections.

How would Baker, with his social positions, get on in front of the GOP presidential primary/caucus crowd? Or his Vermont counterpart?

The problem is that there are plenty of moderate Republicans out there, but by the time the Democrats are done with their character assassination they haven't a hope of getting elected.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html

It's all the Dem's fault that moderate Republicans are dropping like flies, either failing in the primaries or retiring?

Nothing to do with the extremism of the Republican base?

It's the Dem's fault that the only GOPers with the balls to even half-heartedly stand up to Trump are the ones not running for re-election?

It has NOTHING to do with the GOP's embrace and manipulation of white Christian fear and resentment, going all the back to Nixon?

It's actually very simple

Smear, vilify and lie about moderate Republicans-that's in the Democratic Playbook.

So then the Republican andidates have to go closer to the edge in order to be even competitive, then jump out from behind the bushes and say I told you so

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/05/maher_liberals_cried_wolf_about_bush_and_romney_and_we_were_wrong_fascist_trump_is_different.html?mobile_redirect=true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2018, 04:38:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2018, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2018, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2018, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:28 PM


Personally, I would lean towards the allegations being true, in that I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would put themselves through the trauma of being such as accuser if they weren't true.

But... that is not the same as proof.

This isn't (at least currently) a criminal trial.

The key question is whether any of the allegations are credible or not.

The very distinct impression one gets it that they are.
The wider picture is very interesting. Trump is a signed up misogynist and a liability among female voters. The GOP may have to sacrifice Kavanaugh in the interest of the midterms.
Support for Kavanaw among Republican-supporting women went up after Christime Blasey Ford's allegation went public.

There is no more masochistic bunch than Republican-supporting women.

Or maybe they've live their whole lives here and have seen the Democratic smear machine in action before
Or maybe they have a neanderthal attitude to sexual assault from being force fed a diet of right-wing misogynism their whole lives, and employ psychological defence and justification techniques to "dig in" when confronted with things that would blow their whole worldview apart if they didn't employ these psychological techniques.

Denial, in other words.

It's a very, very common thing for supporters of right-wing nut jobbery.

In fact it's the sort of thing on which the popularity of the Republican party and right-wing extremism in general depends.

Or maybe the Republicans focus on issues that are important to them land their families unlike the Democrats who have become a party for just those with grievances with little if any room for dissenting voices
Yeah, "issues" like the right of white cops to murder unarmed black people, equivocating about Nazis, pretending climate change doesn't exist, denying women the right to choice, making sure it's legal to carry machine guns and for mentally ill people to buy them, denying people decent healthcare, including creationist nonsense on school curriculums, shitting all over the rights of gay and trans people, destroying any protection for workers, and making sure the rich take an ever increasing stranglehold of wealth while the rest rot.

Yeah, real legitimate "issues".

I love when people talk about the Republicans as if they're some sort of moderate, sensible political force as opposed to a bunch of mentalists. Such discussion is a great way of identifying who is a member of the reality-based community and who is an utter loo-la.

I take it you have never heard of Charlie Baker then....the Republican Governor of Massachusetts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/25/more-democrats-give-high-marks-charlie-baker-than-republicans-survey-finds/xmOKfMhxPoBCJwRk5XIDZO/amp.html

Open you mind beyond the talking points you pick up from CNN

And the likes of Montana has a Democratic governor, despite being deep red in national elections.

How would Baker, with his social positions, get on in front of the GOP presidential primary/caucus crowd? Or his Vermont counterpart?

The problem is that there are plenty of moderate Republicans out there, but by the time the Democrats are done with their character assassination they haven't a hope of getting elected.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html

It's all the Dem's fault that moderate Republicans are dropping like flies, either failing in the primaries or retiring?

Nothing to do with the extremism of the Republican base?

It's the Dem's fault that the only GOPers with the balls to even half-heartedly stand up to Trump are the ones not running for re-election?

It has NOTHING to do with the GOP's embrace and manipulation of white Christian fear and resentment, going all the back to Nixon?

It's actually very simple

Smear, vilify and lie about moderate Republicans-that's in the Democratic Playbook.

So then the Republican andidates have to go closer to the edge in order to be even competitive, then jump out from behind the bushes and say I told you so

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/05/maher_liberals_cried_wolf_about_bush_and_romney_and_we_were_wrong_fascist_trump_is_different.html?mobile_redirect=true

Let me get this straight - liberals and Dems call moderate Republicans bigoted and homophobic and misogynistic etc. The GOP base responds by electing candidates who are even more bigoted and homophobic and misogynistic etc. Thus, it is all the Dems fault that the GOP is sliding further and further into the reactionary fever swamp.

Is that right?

The GOP politicians/base didn't create/enable/empower Trump and Bannon and Sessions and Limbaugh and Fox News. Liberals did with their mean words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 26, 2018, 05:39:44 PM
Whitey, Whitey, Whitey. Those awful bad, bad Dems are undermining the true word by calling Romney and Bush on economic and social policy BS... and driving poor moderate Republicans to have to adopt even more trickle down medicine and less healthcare to save the country. Dems are driving them to play the racist and evangelical cards to win elections! Poor Republicans... All this stuff started with Blessed Ronald Reagan when he co-oped the Dixiecrat racists into the Republican Party and they have been embracing our less enlightened instincts to stay in power ever since.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 06:23:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 26, 2018, 05:39:44 PM
Whitey, Whitey, Whitey. Those awful bad, bad Dems are undermining the true word by calling Romney and Bush on economic and social policy BS... and driving poor moderate Republicans to have to adopt even more trickle down medicine and less healthcare to save the country. Dems are driving them to play the racist and evangelical cards to win elections! Poor Republicans... All this stuff started with Blessed Ronald Reagan when he co-oped the Dixiecrat racists into the Republican Party and they have been embracing our less enlightened instincts to stay in power ever since.
Whitey is full of shit.
Norm Ornstein used to be a Republican
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/50/divided-we-stand/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 26, 2018, 06:29:37 PM
Brett Kavanaugh released his calendar from 1982 as evidence that he didn't go to the parties where the alleged events took place.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/09/26/kavanaugh.summer.1982.calendar.pages.pdf

The entry for Saturday May 8th is interesting.

(https://i.imgur.com/WXiUPEB.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 06:53:42 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/26/brett-kavanaugh-latest-accusation-julie-swetnick-sexual-misconduct-michael-avenatti
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 07:13:19 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/25/opinion/brett-kavanaugh-women-sexual-assault-questions.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 26, 2018, 07:33:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 06:23:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 26, 2018, 05:39:44 PM
Whitey, Whitey, Whitey. Those awful bad, bad Dems are undermining the true word by calling Romney and Bush on economic and social policy BS... and driving poor moderate Republicans to have to adopt even more trickle down medicine and less healthcare to save the country. Dems are driving them to play the racist and evangelical cards to win elections! Poor Republicans... All this stuff started with Blessed Ronald Reagan when he co-oped the Dixiecrat racists into the Republican Party and they have been embracing our less enlightened instincts to stay in power ever since.
Whitey is full of shit.
Norm Ornstein used to be a Republican
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/50/divided-we-stand/

Not me saying it. Bill Maher and The NY Times said it, I'm just repeating it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on September 26, 2018, 07:35:54 PM
I only glance at American politics now, but is it me or every time someone is running for election, proposed for office, there seems to be sleaze, rape, prostitution allegation?
Either America is full of horned up, sexual predators or these women are I don't know? Making it up? Paid? Produced in some lab somewhere? Crazy place.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on September 26, 2018, 07:41:57 PM
The current process of sifting through the evidence is not to establish a truth in the allegations, the process is a search for a suitable appointment to the US Supreme Court, a lifetime appointment.
The mere existence of credible bias is enough to overturn a court's ruling, and how much more is that the case when this potential corruption pertains to a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land.
As it stands now Kavanaugh is tainted, not only that, both  Kavanaugh and his supporters seem reluctant to take even the minimum necessary steps to impartially and genuinely investigate the allegations against him. That only makes the taint more credible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 08:13:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 07:33:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 06:23:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 26, 2018, 05:39:44 PM
Whitey, Whitey, Whitey. Those awful bad, bad Dems are undermining the true word by calling Romney and Bush on economic and social policy BS... and driving poor moderate Republicans to have to adopt even more trickle down medicine and less healthcare to save the country. Dems are driving them to play the racist and evangelical cards to win elections! Poor Republicans... All this stuff started with Blessed Ronald Reagan when he co-oped the Dixiecrat racists into the Republican Party and they have been embracing our less enlightened instincts to stay in power ever since.
Whitey is full of shit.
Norm Ornstein used to be a Republican
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/50/divided-we-stand/

Not me saying it. Bill Maher and The NY Times said it, I'm just repeating it
You are in denial about the state of the GOP.

https://youtu.be/YVbdd8oOwOY
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 26, 2018, 11:02:43 PM
If you get the chance, turn on the news, there is currently a comedy stand up happening at the UN where some sort of teenager or child dressed as an old man in a ridiculous wig is putting on a one man show in New York, it is hilarious.

Making up words and saying how great he is, he has incredible new jets, and women are incensed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 26, 2018, 11:06:25 PM
Please spend some time to watch this if you get the chance?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 26, 2018, 11:40:48 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 26, 2018, 11:06:25 PM
Please spend some time to watch this if you get the chance?
He needs help. Having a shocker.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 27, 2018, 04:33:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 26, 2018, 07:33:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2018, 06:23:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 26, 2018, 05:39:44 PM
Whitey, Whitey, Whitey. Those awful bad, bad Dems are undermining the true word by calling Romney and Bush on economic and social policy BS... and driving poor moderate Republicans to have to adopt even more trickle down medicine and less healthcare to save the country. Dems are driving them to play the racist and evangelical cards to win elections! Poor Republicans... All this stuff started with Blessed Ronald Reagan when he co-oped the Dixiecrat racists into the Republican Party and they have been embracing our less enlightened instincts to stay in power ever since.
Whitey is full of shit.
Norm Ornstein used to be a Republican
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/50/divided-we-stand/

Not me saying it. Bill Maher and The NY Times said it, I'm just repeating it

Glad you are starting to take Maher and the "failing" NYT seriously. Romney and Bush were benign greedy; they just wanted to keep their "hard earned" money away from Welfare Queens and start wars in a democratic way. This orange lunatic is a different proposition. He wants to rule omnipotently and the Republicans are backing him to the hilt so that they can stay very wealthy and make sure evangelicals and right wing Catholics can stay in control of reproductive rights; mostly women's.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 05:07:57 AM


Adam Jentleson


@AJentleson
·
20m

The person doing much of Grassley's "investigating" - possibly including interviewing the doppelgängers - is Chief Counsel Mike Davis, who is buddies with both Kavanaugh &
‪@EdWhelan123‬
. A few days ago, Mike tweeted that he's unfazed" and "determined" to "confirm Judge Kavanaugh."


Adam Jentleson


@AJentleson

Late last night Grassley's chief counsel, who'd question Ford in a staff interview & prep Grassley's questioning in a hearing, tweeted that he's "unfazed" & "determined" to "confirm Kavanaugh," then confirmed he personally conducted Kavanguah's questioning & attacked Ford's camp.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AJentleson/status/1042772458984681474/photo/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:51:39 AM

Senate Republicans held a number of interviews this with two men who supposedly came forward and admitted they may be the 2 men involved in the assault on Dr Ford

Seemingly accuser # 3 sued a former employer years ago......any guess who her attorney was......attorney for Dr Ford, accuser #1

(Just 2 of the latest pieces of (unverified) breaking news)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 06:22:45 AM

Andy Slavitt
@ASlavitt
Please be quiet about this. Do not retweet or publicize.

GOP Quietly Sends Bill To Gut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid By $2 Trillion (link: http://washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-sends-bill-to-gut-social-security-medicare-medicaid-by-2-trillion/) washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-se... via @groopspeak
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 07:37:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:51:39 AM

Senate Republicans held a number of interviews this with two men who supposedly came forward and admitted they may be the 2 men involved in the assault on Dr Ford

Seemingly accuser # 3 sued a former employer years ago......any guess who her attorney was......attorney for Dr Ford, accuser #1

(Just 2 of the latest pieces of (unverified) breaking news)

Flake and Murkowski could sink Kavanaugh especially if Ford comes across well
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:51:39 AM

Senate Republicans held a number of interviews this with two men who supposedly came forward and admitted they may be the 2 men involved in the assault on Dr Ford

Seemingly accuser # 3 sued a former employer years ago......any guess who her attorney was......attorney for Dr Ford, accuser #1

(Just 2 of the latest pieces of (unverified) breaking news)
In what world do random attempted rapists see somebody in the public eye getting set up for their crime and come forward to admit to their guilt?

In the Republican la la make believe world, that's where.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 12:19:40 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/sep/27/this-guy-doesnt-know-anything-the-inside-story-of-trumps-shambolic-transition-team
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 12:22:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:51:39 AM

Senate Republicans held a number of interviews this with two men who supposedly came forward and admitted they may be the 2 men involved in the assault on Dr Ford

Seemingly accuser # 3 sued a former employer years ago......any guess who her attorney was......attorney for Dr Ford, accuser #1

(Just 2 of the latest pieces of (unverified) breaking news)
In what world do random attempted rapists see somebody in the public eye getting set up for their crime and come forward to admit to their guilt?

In the Republican la la make believe world, that's where.
It looks like a Scooby Do episode. "We would have gotten away with it if it wasn't  for you pesky bitches" . The GOP is desperate to confirm Kavanaugh and secure the Court for the fundis for 2 generations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2018, 12:24:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:51:39 AM

Senate Republicans held a number of interviews this with two men who supposedly came forward and admitted they may be the 2 men involved in the assault on Dr Ford

Seemingly accuser # 3 sued a former employer years ago......any guess who her attorney was......attorney for Dr Ford, accuser #1

(Just 2 of the latest pieces of (unverified) breaking news)
In what world do random attempted rapists see somebody in the public eye getting set up for their crime and come forward to admit to their guilt?

In the Republican la la make believe world, that's where.

And one would hope that the GOP is handing these men and their belatedly-guilty consciences (or maybe the guilt/empathy, a la Trump, only extends to Kavanaugh?) over to the police?

Will there be an FBI investigation NOW?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:24:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 06:22:45 AM

Andy Slavitt
@ASlavitt
Please be quiet about this. Do not retweet or publicize.

GOP Quietly Sends Bill To Gut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid By $2 Trillion (link: http://washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-sends-bill-to-gut-social-security-medicare-medicaid-by-2-trillion/) washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-se... via @groopspeak
This is "an issue that is very important to Republicans and their families".

All that money is much better off in the hands of the rich.

Trump is like a reverse Robin Hood.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 12:22:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:51:39 AM

Senate Republicans held a number of interviews this with two men who supposedly came forward and admitted they may be the 2 men involved in the assault on Dr Ford

Seemingly accuser # 3 sued a former employer years ago......any guess who her attorney was......attorney for Dr Ford, accuser #1

(Just 2 of the latest pieces of (unverified) breaking news)
In what world do random attempted rapists see somebody in the public eye getting set up for their crime and come forward to admit to their guilt?

In the Republican la la make believe world, that's where.
It looks like a Scooby Do episode. "We would have gotten away with it if it wasn't  for you pesky bitches" . The GOP is desperate to confirm Kavanaugh and secure the Court for the fundis for 2 generations
There are evil twins everywhere, well, I guess that means they're not twins but something else - my vocabulary in this regard only goes up to "octuplets".

I just know there are a hell of a lot of men out there who look exactly like Brett Kavanaugh, and it was one of them who attempted to rape Christine Blasey Ford, but not - definitely NOT - Kavanaugh.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2018, 12:31:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:24:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 06:22:45 AM

Andy Slavitt
@ASlavitt
Please be quiet about this. Do not retweet or publicize.

GOP Quietly Sends Bill To Gut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid By $2 Trillion (link: http://washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-sends-bill-to-gut-social-security-medicare-medicaid-by-2-trillion/) washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-se... via @groopspeak
This is "an issue that is very important to Republicans and their families".

All that money is much better off in the hands of the rich.

Trump is like a reverse Robin Hood.

In fairness to Trump, the gutting of the safety net for the poor and seniors has been longstanding Republican dogma, especially for the likes of Ryan.

Its ironic to go back eight years when the Tea Party was up in arms and the GOP were running on Obama killing Medicare.

"Keep your filthy commie government hands off my socialized medical coverage Medicare"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:32:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2018, 12:24:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:51:39 AM

Senate Republicans held a number of interviews this with two men who supposedly came forward and admitted they may be the 2 men involved in the assault on Dr Ford

Seemingly accuser # 3 sued a former employer years ago......any guess who her attorney was......attorney for Dr Ford, accuser #1

(Just 2 of the latest pieces of (unverified) breaking news)
In what world do random attempted rapists see somebody in the public eye getting set up for their crime and come forward to admit to their guilt?

In the Republican la la make believe world, that's where.

And one would hope that the GOP is handing these men and their belatedly-guilty consciences (or maybe the guilt/empathy, a la Trump, only extends to Kavanaugh?) over to the police?

Will there be an FBI investigation NOW?
Like the last Republican presidency, there's a superfluous W there in your answer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:36:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2018, 12:31:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:24:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 06:22:45 AM

Andy Slavitt
@ASlavitt
Please be quiet about this. Do not retweet or publicize.

GOP Quietly Sends Bill To Gut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid By $2 Trillion (link: http://washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-sends-bill-to-gut-social-security-medicare-medicaid-by-2-trillion/) washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-se... via @groopspeak
This is "an issue that is very important to Republicans and their families".

All that money is much better off in the hands of the rich.

Trump is like a reverse Robin Hood.

In fairness to Trump, the gutting of the safety net for the poor and seniors has been longstanding Republican dogma, especially for the likes of Ryan.

Its ironic to go back eight years when the Tea Party was up in arms and the GOP were running on Obama killing Medicare.

"Keep your filthy commie government hands off my socialized medical coverage Medicare"
Did somebody say "safety net"?

(https://www.cartoonistgroup.com/properties/anderson/art_images/and031505color_lr.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 27, 2018, 12:24:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 06:22:45 AM

Andy Slavitt
@ASlavitt
Please be quiet about this. Do not retweet or publicize.

GOP Quietly Sends Bill To Gut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid By $2 Trillion (link: http://washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-sends-bill-to-gut-social-security-medicare-medicaid-by-2-trillion/) washingtonsources.org/gop-quietly-se... via @groopspeak
This is "an issue that is very important to Republicans and their families".

All that money is much better off in the hands of the rich.

Trump is like a reverse Robin Hood.
A lot of evangelical voters need social transfers to get to the end of the month
The GOP is not interested in sustainability.

It reminds me of this, starring Charles and David Koch as the wasp and the GOP as the cockroach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ySwuQhruBo&t=8s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 04:28:33 PM
Matt Viser
@mviser
·
1h
Charlie Baker, a Republican who has the highest approval rating of any governor in the country and who almost never jumps into national politics, weighs in:
Quote Tweet
Charlie Baker
@MassGovernor
"The accusations brought against Judge Kavanaugh are sickening and deserve an independent investigation. There should be no vote in the Senate."


Over to Whitey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 04:49:27 PM
Norman Ornstein
@NormOrnstein
·
1m
This makes a push to a vote on Kavanaugh a disaster. It is hard for me to imagine Kavanaugh testimony making a difference. How could Flake, Collins, Murkowski vote for him without more investigation, including Judge? McConnell's best hope-Pull the plug now and get Barrett up ASAP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 27, 2018, 05:00:44 PM
Kavanaugh is gone!!!

Is there time to get someone before the midterms??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:02:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 04:28:33 PM
Matt Viser
@mviser
·
1h
Charlie Baker, a Republican who has the highest approval rating of any governor in the country and who almost never jumps into national politics, weighs in:
Quote Tweet
Charlie Baker
@MassGovernor
"The accusations brought against Judge Kavanaugh are sickening and deserve an independent investigation. There should be no vote in the Senate."


Over to Whitey

Hahaha.....very, very clever by Charlie

He knows the Dems are going to try and stick Kavanaugh on him in the run up to November and he's just after getting out in front of them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on September 27, 2018, 05:32:46 PM
Compelling and credible evidence there by Prof. Ford.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 05:42:20 PM
It reminds me of an all Ireland Final
If the underdogs score a goal before half time they have a chance. The GOP needed Ford to perform badly. She didn't

Sahil Kapur
(@sahilkapur)
Republican governors Charlie Baker (MA), Larry Hogan (MD) and John Kasich (OH) call on the Senate to delay the Kavanaugh nomination and investigate the three allegations.https://t.co/rTVh4XdBWf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2018, 05:42:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:02:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 04:28:33 PM
Matt Viser
@mviser
·
1h
Charlie Baker, a Republican who has the highest approval rating of any governor in the country and who almost never jumps into national politics, weighs in:
Quote Tweet
Charlie Baker
@MassGovernor
"The accusations brought against Judge Kavanaugh are sickening and deserve an independent investigation. There should be no vote in the Senate."


Over to Whitey

Hahaha.....very, very clever by Charlie

He knows the Dems are going to try and stick Kavanaugh on him in the run up to November and he's just after getting out in front of them

Or maybe he is a decent human being...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 27, 2018, 05:46:24 PM
I think she just made it extremely difficult for the advancement of Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court but you never know with this Republican majority. If Kavanaugh wants to keep his current day job, he should stay at home today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on September 27, 2018, 06:27:23 PM
She is SO credible.  I can't imagine what Kavanaugh can say to puncture her credibility. It's he said, she said, and she is very believable. If the GOP charges on without at least an investigation, then then they have hit rock bottom and have started to dig.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 27, 2018, 05:46:24 PM
I think she just made it extremely difficult for the advancement of Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court but you never know with this Republican majority. If Kavanaugh wants to keep his current day job, he should stay at home today.
Grassley was asked by her team if she could speak second to rebut Kavanaugh and he refused.
The Dems come across as decent. The Goppers don't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 06:47:12 PM
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/blasey-fords-shining-moment-grassleys-catastrophe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on September 27, 2018, 07:23:31 PM
He should step down until there is an investigation into why the f**k his name is spelled and pronounced incorrectly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2018, 05:42:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:02:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 04:28:33 PM
Matt Viser
@mviser
·
1h
Charlie Baker, a Republican who has the highest approval rating of any governor in the country and who almost never jumps into national politics, weighs in:
Quote Tweet
Charlie Baker
@MassGovernor
"The accusations brought against Judge Kavanaugh are sickening and deserve an independent investigation. There should be no vote in the Senate."


Over to Whitey

Hahaha.....very, very clever by Charlie

He knows the Dems are going to try and stick Kavanaugh on him in the run up to November and he's just after getting out in front of them

Or maybe he is a decent human being...

He is. But that wont stop them.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 27, 2018, 08:39:40 PM
Kavanaugh certainly seems to be a man who is organised.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 27, 2018, 08:39:40 PM
Kavanaugh certainly seems to be a man who is organised.

He reminds me of the squirrel from Ice Age and the acorn. He had the Supreme Court in his hands....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_LKe8V-h7h8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 09:09:01 PM

David Frum
@davidfrum
Kavanaugh's message - "the Left"; "Borking"; "revenge on behalf of the Clintons"; "goes around comes around" - is that of a man who has already lost his Court seat, preparing for his next career
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on September 27, 2018, 09:59:15 PM

Lindsey Graham fairly came out fighting for Kavanaugh!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 27, 2018, 09:59:22 PM
Lindsey Graham knocking it out of the park for Kavanaugh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 27, 2018, 10:04:42 PM
Fart jokes in the yearbook. Getting beyond a joke this now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on September 27, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
Let the FBI deal with it.  He doesn't seem to want that which makes him guilty in my eyes.  Lindsey Graham is some laugh, what a dramatic performance from him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 27, 2018, 10:12:10 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on September 27, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
Let the FBI deal with it.  He doesn't seem to want that which makes him guilty in my eyes.  Lindsey Graham is some laugh, what a dramatic performance from him.

Meh not his call to make anyway. The dems will of course want a full blown FBI investigation because regardless of the result of it, it will delay the nomination to after midterms. They know the numbers show they're on track to take back the Senate and will be able to block Kavanaugh and any Trump pick between now and 2020.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on September 27, 2018, 11:11:00 PM
I see some of the usual suspects embarassing themselves as usual on sexual assault.

Have the fûcking balls to believe the woman when she is quite clearly very believable. Fin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 27, 2018, 11:20:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 27, 2018, 11:11:00 PM
I see some of the usual suspects embarassing themselves as usual on sexual assault.

Have the fûcking balls to believe the woman when she is quiet clearly very believable. Fin.

I lean to him but what makes you 100% convinced she's telling the truth?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 27, 2018, 11:23:58 PM
Her ties to the CIA and her brothers ties to company involved with fusion gps all has to come out yet
The Dems are despicable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on September 27, 2018, 11:39:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2018, 11:23:58 PM
Her ties to the CIA and her brothers ties to company involved with fusion gps all has to come out yet
The Dems are despicable

Hmm in this case, the biggest asshole is Kauvanagh. It's a joke that a man with this sense of humour and level of morality or even maturity could decide some of the most fractious cases in American society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on September 27, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
Let the FBI deal with it.  He doesn't seem to want that which makes him guilty in my eyes.  Lindsey Graham is some laugh, what a dramatic performance from him.

I think Graham was sending a warning to Collins and Murkowski not to vote against him.
He seems to have lied a few times (eg over what Renate alumni meant) but the GOP don't care. He is no Atticus Finch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on September 28, 2018, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on September 27, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
Let the FBI deal with it.  He doesn't seem to want that which makes him guilty in my eyes.  Lindsey Graham is some laugh, what a dramatic performance from him.

I think Graham was sending a warning to Collins and Murkowski not to vote against him.
He seems to have lied a few times (eg over what Renate alumni meant) but the GOP don't care. He is no Atticus Finch.

He tried to be though.
I couldn't imagine many people I would like to avoid spending time with than that Kavanaugh individual.
When he mentioned his little daughter praying for 'that woman', .............
Came across as a hateful p***k. Good actor too.
At the end of the hearing he would not make eye contact with the black Dem. Sen. He deliberately acted like he was taking notes.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 12:53:17 AM
In his opening, and by accusing the Democratic members in the manner in which he did, he has opened up vast swathes of areas that should they come to be heard in front of the supreme Court he would have to recuse himself, or have a bus driven through his ability to rule on the case by the petitioners...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on September 28, 2018, 01:03:53 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2018, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on September 27, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
Let the FBI deal with it.  He doesn't seem to want that which makes him guilty in my eyes.  Lindsey Graham is some laugh, what a dramatic performance from him.

I think Graham was sending a warning to Collins and Murkowski not to vote against him.
He seems to have lied a few times (eg over what Renate alumni meant) but the GOP don't care. He is no Atticus Finch.

He tried to be though.
I couldn't imagine many people I would like to avoid spending time with than that Kavanaugh individual.
When he mentioned his little daughter praying for 'that woman', .............
Came across as a hateful p***k. Good actor too.
At the end of the hearing he would not make eye contact with the black Dem. Sen. He deliberately acted like he was taking notes.

That shït heel is going to do more damage to America in his 30+ years on the bench if confirmed than Trump ever could possibly do. They're replacing the swing vote with a hard right, mad cap judge with a history of sexual assault. It makes Clarence Thomas look like a stand up guy. Ideology won over decency in 2016 and it very well could again this year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2018, 01:06:18 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2018, 11:23:58 PM
Her ties to the CIA and her brothers ties to company involved with fusion gps all has to come out yet
The Dems are despicable

What's despicable, or maybe pathetic, are people who believe every half-baked rumour they read on the internet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2018, 01:09:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2018, 05:42:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2018, 05:02:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2018, 04:28:33 PM
Matt Viser
@mviser
·
1h
Charlie Baker, a Republican who has the highest approval rating of any governor in the country and who almost never jumps into national politics, weighs in:
Quote Tweet
Charlie Baker
@MassGovernor
"The accusations brought against Judge Kavanaugh are sickening and deserve an independent investigation. There should be no vote in the Senate."


Over to Whitey

Hahaha.....very, very clever by Charlie

He knows the Dems are going to try and stick Kavanaugh on him in the run up to November and he's just after getting out in front of them

Or maybe he is a decent human being...

He is. But that wont stop them.

I'm sure, unlike all the other delicate, naive, GOP politicians who you apparently follow, he'll handle himself just fine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 28, 2018, 01:11:18 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2018, 11:23:58 PM
Her ties to the CIA and her brothers ties to company involved with fusion gps all has to come out yet
The Dems are despicable

Your usual bullshittery post I see - stop posting shite from ZeroHedge.com  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Also

Quote"Ford has a brother, Ralph Blasey, who worked for BakerHostetler, a law firm that retained Fusion GPS, the infamous DC company that produced the unverified Steele dossier on President Donald Trump and Russia, sparking the Russia investigation," a Liberty News press release reads.

Ralph Blasey indeed worked at BakerHostetler. But he left nine years before the law firm hired Fusion GPS, a consulting firm, to assist with a Russian money-laundering investigation.

In 2015, Fusion GPS subcontracted with Christopher Steele, a British intelligence officer to produce the Russian dossier. Fusion GPS has said the two cases were unrelated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 01:58:38 AM
This is hopefully the last gasp of the patriarchy.

The absolute hypocrisy of the GOP refusing point blank to give Obama's nominee a hearing. And on the same topic they are trying to push the confirmation of a man facing one very credible accusation of sexual assault with new accusations surfacing at a surprising rate.

In fairness he was nominated by a man facing multiple credible accusations of sexual assault who conned a jerrymandered minority of Americans by denying everything, getting angry and steam rollering women's rights.

"Kavanaug- not so much a testimony as a temper tantrum"

This doesn't strike me as a political bid by Blasey Ford, but more someone who felt that it simply wasn't right that this Calibre of person was worthy of a lifetime appointed position to the countries highest court.

Kavanaugh on the other hand was a spoilt brat swiping at all perceived threats and fawning at the nice old white men who never wavered in their unfounded assumption that they should and would protect one of their own no matter what the accusation.

I was never black out drunk!

And then proceeded to ask the daughter of an alcoholic if she had been with a arrogant contempt that seemed to confirm everything in the earlier testimony.

I was called king of the ralphers because of my weak stomach- meatballs and ketchup, not because I vomited when I was drunk ;-)

P.s. bouffed means farted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 28, 2018, 02:00:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2018, 01:03:53 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2018, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on September 27, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
Let the FBI deal with it.  He doesn't seem to want that which makes him guilty in my eyes.  Lindsey Graham is some laugh, what a dramatic performance from him.

I think Graham was sending a warning to Collins and Murkowski not to vote against him.
He seems to have lied a few times (eg over what Renate alumni meant) but the GOP don't care. He is no Atticus Finch.

He tried to be though.
I couldn't imagine many people I would like to avoid spending time with than that Kavanaugh individual.
When he mentioned his little daughter praying for 'that woman', .............
Came across as a hateful p***k. Good actor too.
At the end of the hearing he would not make eye contact with the black Dem. Sen. He deliberately acted like he was taking notes.

That shït heel is going to do more damage to America in his 30+ years on the bench if confirmed than Trump ever could possibly do. They're replacing the swing vote with a hard right, mad cap judge with a history of sexual assault. It makes Clarence Thomas look like a stand up guy. Ideology won over decency in 2016 and it very well could again this year.

Hey Sy.

I want to report that in 1982 or 1983 you grabbed me by the c0ck in the bathroom at a teenage disco.  I cant remember if it happened in Castlerea or in Cloonfad, but it definitely happened.I think there were 6 people there, but it might have been 27. One of them was my best friend, but she actually doesnt even remember the event taking place, but it definitely did.   I forgot all about it for 35 years, but when I heard you were running for elections as the candidate of the Take Ballagh Back Party, I was triggered and it all came flooding back
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 02:25:22 AM
You are a contemptible ass, who in the face of fact, science and evidence clings to an irrational baseless view of the world, colored by any thing or anyone who confirms your own bias.

You could probably find 65 people to say otherwise though, wouldn't make one of them right or you any less odious. In fact it is just an accident of the location of your birth that you weren't Trump's nominee this time around.

And no, that is not a compliment.

People deal with sexual assault in many many different ways, most of which are a struggle to help themselves come to terms with an experience that is outside of their comprehension.

You should relate to the lack of comprehension part quite well
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 28, 2018, 02:35:08 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 02:25:22 AM
You are a contemptible ass, who in the face of fact, science and evidence clings to an irrational baseless view of the world, colored by any thing or anyone who confirms your own bias.

You could probably find 65 people to say otherwise though, wouldn't make one of them right or you any less odious. In fact it is just an accident of the location of your birth that you weren't Trump's nominee this time around.

And no, that is not a compliment.

People deal with sexual assault in many many different ways, most of which are a struggle to help themselves come to terms with an experience that is outside of their comprehension.

You should relate to the lack of comprehension part quite well


WTF are you talking about. If Diane Feinstein thought this was real shed have jumped all over it back in July.  Heres what Sy said

"I see some of the usual suspects embarassing themselves as usual on sexual assault.

Have the fûcking balls to believe the woman when she is quite clearly very believable. Fin."

Shes believable all right, but doesnt have a single solitary shred of evidence. Her best fvckin friend said it didnt happen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 28, 2018, 02:40:53 AM
Glad you think sexual assault is something worth mocking whitey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 28, 2018, 02:42:19 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 28, 2018, 02:40:53 AM
Glad you think sexual assault is funny whitey

No I think its funny that Sy said

"I see some of the usual suspects embarassing themselves as usual on sexual assault.

Have the fûcking balls to believe the woman when she is quite clearly very believable. Fin."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 03:14:15 AM
The Trump tweets tomorrow, who will be first target?

The accuser?
Clintona
Obama
Women

China

His own accusers

Rosenstein
Jeff sessions

We are beyond the ability to predict the dumb shit.

Maybe they are all laughing with him...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 28, 2018, 03:16:24 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2018, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on September 27, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
Let the FBI deal with it.  He doesn't seem to want that which makes him guilty in my eyes.  Lindsey Graham is some laugh, what a dramatic performance from him.

I think Graham was sending a warning to Collins and Murkowski not to vote against him.
He seems to have lied a few times (eg over what Renate alumni meant) but the GOP don't care. He is no Atticus Finch.

He tried to be though.
I couldn't imagine many people I would like to avoid spending time with than that Kavanaugh individual.
When he mentioned his little daughter praying for 'that woman', .............
Came across as a hateful p***k. Good actor too.
At the end of the hearing he would not make eye contact with the black Dem. Sen. He deliberately acted like he was taking notes.

:o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 06:20:09 AM
Senator Jones from Alabama has indicated he will
vote No.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1045510166161084416/photo/1

They just need 1 more

Kavanaugh ranting reminded me of Roland Freisler who used to work for a Mr Hitler.

https://youtu.be/D3qsImhAswo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on September 28, 2018, 06:35:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 06:20:09 AM
Senator Jones from Alabama has indicated he will
vote No.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1045510166161084416/photo/1

They just need 1 more

Kavanaugh ranting reminded me of Roland Freisler who used to work for a Mr Hitler.

https://youtu.be/D3qsImhAswo

Uhhh Seafoid. Doug Jones is a Democrat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 07:12:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2018, 02:00:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2018, 01:03:53 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2018, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on September 27, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
Let the FBI deal with it.  He doesn't seem to want that which makes him guilty in my eyes.  Lindsey Graham is some laugh, what a dramatic performance from him.

I think Graham was sending a warning to Collins and Murkowski not to vote against him.
He seems to have lied a few times (eg over what Renate alumni meant) but the GOP don't care. He is no Atticus Finch.

He tried to be though.
I couldn't imagine many people I would like to avoid spending time with than that Kavanaugh individual.
When he mentioned his little daughter praying for 'that woman', .............
Came across as a hateful p***k. Good actor too.
At the end of the hearing he would not make eye contact with the black Dem. Sen. He deliberately acted like he was taking notes.

That shït heel is going to do more damage to America in his 30+ years on the bench if confirmed than Trump ever could possibly do. They're replacing the swing vote with a hard right, mad cap judge with a history of sexual assault. It makes Clarence Thomas look like a stand up guy. Ideology won over decency in 2016 and it very well could again this year.

Hey Sy.

I want to report that in 1982 or 1983 you grabbed me by the c0ck in the bathroom at a teenage disco.  I cant remember if it happened in Castlerea or in Cloonfad, but it definitely happened.I think there were 6 people there, but it might have been 27. One of them was my best friend, but she actually doesnt even remember the event taking place, but it definitely did.   I forgot all about it for 35 years, but when I heard you were running for elections as the candidate of the Take Ballagh Back Party, I was triggered and it all came flooding back
Whitey, I heard you whine about it on MWR. You refused to have Bord na Mona investigate and there is evidence from 2 turf cutters that you won't acknowledge. The punters in Midas will decide.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 07:31:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2018, 02:35:08 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 02:25:22 AM
You are a contemptible ass, who in the face of fact, science and evidence clings to an irrational baseless view of the world, colored by any thing or anyone who confirms your own bias.

You could probably find 65 people to say otherwise though, wouldn't make one of them right or you any less odious. In fact it is just an accident of the location of your birth that you weren't Trump's nominee this time around.

And no, that is not a compliment.

People deal with sexual assault in many many different ways, most of which are a struggle to help themselves come to terms with an experience that is outside of their comprehension.

You should relate to the lack of comprehension part quite well


WTF are you talking about. If Diane Feinstein thought this was real shed have jumped all over it back in July.  Heres what Sy said

"I see some of the usual suspects embarassing themselves as usual on sexual assault.

Have the fûcking balls to believe the woman when she is quite clearly very believable. Fin."

Shes believable all right, but doesnt have a single solitary shred of evidence. Her best fvckin friend said it didnt happen
Kavanaugh's rant would seem to imply it did.
He doesn't have the temperament or the moral authority for the job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 28, 2018, 07:59:46 AM
Those who think Kavanaugh doesnt have the tempernent for the job should watch Clarence Thomas' senate judiciary committee hearing in 91.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 09:32:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2018, 06:35:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 06:20:09 AM
Senator Jones from Alabama has indicated he will
vote No.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1045510166161084416/photo/1

They just need 1 more

Kavanaugh ranting reminded me of Roland Freisler who used to work for a Mr Hitler.

https://youtu.be/D3qsImhAswo

Uhhh Seafoid. Doug Jones is a Democrat.
Uhh alright But he is from the Deep south. It seems to be down to Flake (who is leaving anyway), Collins, Murkowski and Manchin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 09:39:35 AM
I'm struggling with this case TBH.

I struggle with the fact that a man's reputation can be destroyed without due process. Diane Feinstein should be ashamed of how she handled this, as she, in my opinion has let down Ford, the US hearing process, and the reputation of the Democratic Party.  She has left this issue open for counter challenge, on one hand, serious allegations have be levied that put into question this mans suitability to be on the Supreme Court.....on the other hand the timing for the release of the letter indicates that she was more interested in the political game and timed the release to impact upmost damage to the candidate. Especially when during the process the FBI would be running background checks

I also struggle with the fact that one of the senators has admitted to sexually assaulting a girl in his teenage years.....but that's OK, I said sorry.......and he now takes the high ground to admonish the candidate.

I also struggle with the Republicans, who without an investigation, may be pushing a candidate for the Supreme Court who has a serious criminal allegation hanging over his head.

In summary, as an American citizen, this situation is a really depressing indictment of the American political system / society at the moment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 10:59:03 AM
Jennifer Rubin

@JRubinBlogger
·
10h

This will not end if Kavanaugh confirmed. The new congress will call and compel testimony from other witnesses. A Dem Congress could well vote to impeach. Bar complaints will be lodged vs. him. The next D president will expand the court. Kavanaugh willing to burn it all down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 28, 2018, 11:01:04 AM
Jennifer Rubin is a bitter enemy of Trump who has been predicting his imminent demise almost daily for 3 years now. Her predictions so far have been laughably off the mark. She has no credibility here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2018, 12:24:01 PM
Quote from: five points on September 28, 2018, 11:01:04 AM
Jennifer Rubin is a bitter enemy of Trump who has been predicting his imminent demise almost daily for 3 years now. Her predictions so far have been laughably off the mark. She has no credibility here.

Everyone's predictions about Trump's demise have been off the mark. There is a list as long as your arm of statements and conduct which would have done in any normal politician, but his complete lack of decency and shame; the pace at which the stories come, each one forcing the previous one off the front pages; the utter cowardice and cynicism of the overall GOP (John McCain must be turning over in his grave at the carry on of his best buddy Lindsay Graham after the way Trump treated both of them); and the general, bitter division of the US along partisan lines mean that accountability just doesn't enter the equation when it comes to Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 28, 2018, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2018, 12:24:01 PM
and the general, bitter division of the US along partisan lines mean that accountability just doesn't enter the equation when it comes to Trump.
Yeah, there was no partisan division until 2016  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on September 28, 2018, 01:30:37 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 09:39:35 AM
I'm struggling with this case TBH.

I struggle with the fact that a man's reputation can be destroyed without due process. Diane Feinstein should be ashamed of how she handled this, as she, in my opinion has let down Ford, the US hearing process, and the reputation of the Democratic Party.  She has left this issue open for counter challenge, on one hand, serious allegations have be levied that put into question this mans suitability to be on the Supreme Court.....on the other hand the timing for the release of the letter indicates that she was more interested in the political game and timed the release to impact upmost damage to the candidate. Especially when during the process the FBI would be running background checks

I also struggle with the fact that one of the senators has admitted to sexually assaulting a girl in his teenage years.....but that's OK, I said sorry.......and he now takes the high ground to admonish the candidate.

I also struggle with the Republicans, who without an investigation, may be pushing a candidate for the Supreme Court who has a serious criminal allegation hanging over his head.

In summary, as an American citizen, this situation is a really depressing indictment of the American political system / society at the moment.

If you're seriously struggling when multiple women have made sworn statements attesting to his sexual assaults I'm genuinely sorry for you. He's getting more due process than he deserves for a job that you should need to be whiter than white to get. Cry me a river if you're trying to reduce it to gender politics.

This is not a complex case or one where anyone removed from ideology should have any problems saying Brett Kavanaugh is a terrible pick for the Supreme Court. In fact if the political climate was less Trumpian there is no doubt he would already have been withdrawn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2018, 01:30:57 PM
Quote from: five points on September 28, 2018, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2018, 12:24:01 PM
and the general, bitter division of the US along partisan lines mean that accountability just doesn't enter the equation when it comes to Trump.
Yeah, there was no partisan division until 2016  ::)

Did anyone say otherwise?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 02:01:36 PM
Quote from: five points on September 28, 2018, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2018, 12:24:01 PM
and the general, bitter division of the US along partisan lines mean that accountability just doesn't enter the equation when it comes to Trump.
Yeah, there was no partisan division until 2016  ::)
Read Sam Rosenfeld's The Polarizers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 02:02:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2018, 01:30:37 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 09:39:35 AM
I'm struggling with this case TBH.

I struggle with the fact that a man's reputation can be destroyed without due process. Diane Feinstein should be ashamed of how she handled this, as she, in my opinion has let down Ford, the US hearing process, and the reputation of the Democratic Party.  She has left this issue open for counter challenge, on one hand, serious allegations have be levied that put into question this mans suitability to be on the Supreme Court.....on the other hand the timing for the release of the letter indicates that she was more interested in the political game and timed the release to impact upmost damage to the candidate. Especially when during the process the FBI would be running background checks

I also struggle with the fact that one of the senators has admitted to sexually assaulting a girl in his teenage years.....but that's OK, I said sorry.......and he now takes the high ground to admonish the candidate.

I also struggle with the Republicans, who without an investigation, may be pushing a candidate for the Supreme Court who has a serious criminal allegation hanging over his head.

In summary, as an American citizen, this situation is a really depressing indictment of the American political system / society at the moment.

If you're seriously struggling when multiple women have made sworn statements attesting to his sexual assaults I'm genuinely sorry for you. He's getting more due process than he deserves for a job that you should need to be whiter than white to get. Cry me a river if you're trying to reduce it to gender politics.

This is not a complex case or one where anyone removed from ideology should have any problems saying Brett Kavanaugh is a terrible pick for the Supreme Court. In fact if the political climate was less Trumpian there is no doubt he would dlready have been withdrawn.

First things first, I am a registered member of the Democratic Party. I voted for Hilary and I am not coming at this from a pro Trump GOP position.

If this case was a criminal case, he would be found not guilty with the current lack of collaborating evidence. The fact that women have sworn statements without collaborating evidence, is countered with the sworn statements from Kavanuagh. You are now left with Innocent until proven guilt, he said 'v' she said.

The due process that is missing is which should have been driven by the DNC....
1- Criminal investigation by a law enforcement agency. This should have been done anyway via the FBI background check
2 - If there was sufficient collaborating evidence to support a trial, then bring it to a trial
3 - If brought to a trial, Kavanuagh is toast

Giving a statement and being asked about HS yearbooks is a joke and no where near due process. Look at Graham at the end. Pure theatrics, how in hell would that process in any way bring justice for Hall. Come on lets get real here.

What MY party has done, is hand Trump and the GOP an alternative narrative on what happened, which they will now use to fuel the fake news industry, "Nasty Democrats" have no sham etc etc

If you can't see the bigger picture here then your focusing on the wrong issue.

The biggest danger is not Kavanuagh becoming a supreme court judge (as bad as that would be)...It's Trump winning in 2020 and having even more influence on more judges. My fear is that the Democrats believe that they have 2020 in the back and are getting sloppy in local battles(which I believe happened here) and Trump slips in again and wins the war
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 28, 2018, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 07:31:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2018, 02:35:08 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 02:25:22 AM
You are a contemptible ass, who in the face of fact, science and evidence clings to an irrational baseless view of the world, colored by any thing or anyone who confirms your own bias.

You could probably find 65 people to say otherwise though, wouldn't make one of them right or you any less odious. In fact it is just an accident of the location of your birth that you weren't Trump's nominee this time around.

And no, that is not a compliment.

People deal with sexual assault in many many different ways, most of which are a struggle to help themselves come to terms with an experience that is outside of their comprehension.

You should relate to the lack of comprehension part quite well


WTF are you talking about. If Diane Feinstein thought this was real shed have jumped all over it back in July.  Heres what Sy said

"I see some of the usual suspects embarassing themselves as usual on sexual assault.

Have the fûcking balls to believe the woman when she is quite clearly very believable. Fin."

Shes believable all right, but doesnt have a single solitary shred of evidence. Her best fvckin friend said it didnt happen
Kavanaugh's rant would seem to imply it did.
He doesn't have the temperament or the moral authority for the job.

Kavanaugh has perjured himself multiple times.

He did during his original hearing and again last night.

That he's willing to perjure himself over the small stuff like his drinking habits means his testimony in any area has no credibility.

His general demeanour, tone and language used should also rule him out.

Basically, he's the sort of man that has no business being any sort of a judge, never mind a Supreme Court judge.

He's an ultra-partisan political operative, a liar and a charlatan - the perfect personification of the Trump regime in judge form.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 03:00:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 28, 2018, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 07:31:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2018, 02:35:08 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 02:25:22 AM
You are a contemptible ass, who in the face of fact, science and evidence clings to an irrational baseless view of the world, colored by any thing or anyone who confirms your own bias.

You could probably find 65 people to say otherwise though, wouldn't make one of them right or you any less odious. In fact it is just an accident of the location of your birth that you weren't Trump's nominee this time around.

And no, that is not a compliment.

People deal with sexual assault in many many different ways, most of which are a struggle to help themselves come to terms with an experience that is outside of their comprehension.

You should relate to the lack of comprehension part quite well


WTF are you talking about. If Diane Feinstein thought this was real shed have jumped all over it back in July.  Heres what Sy said

"I see some of the usual suspects embarassing themselves as usual on sexual assault.

Have the fûcking balls to believe the woman when she is quite clearly very believable. Fin."

Shes believable all right, but doesnt have a single solitary shred of evidence. Her best fvckin friend said it didnt happen
Kavanaugh's rant would seem to imply it did.
He doesn't have the temperament or the moral authority for the job.

Kavanaugh has perjured himself multiple times.

He did during his original hearing and again last night.

That he's willing to perjure himself over the small stuff like his drinking habits means his testimony in any area has no credibility.

His general demeanour, tone and language used should also rule him out.

Basically, he's the sort of man that has no business being any sort of a judge, never mind a Supreme Court judge.

He's an ultra-partisan political operative, a liar and a charlatan - the perfect personification of the Trump regime in judge form.
That is why he reminds me of Freisler. A partisan thug judge is useless
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/)

Good piece.  Kavanaugh isn't on trial, he's applying for a job.  Presumption of innocence applies to trials, not job applications.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/)

Good piece.  Kavanaugh isn't on trial, he's applying for a job.  Presumption of innocence applies to trials, not job applications.

My worry about that is God help the next Democratic nominee.

It is now open season if no due process is applied to claims of a serious nature.

Wait to the last minute, and bring out dramatic claims
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:18:14 PM
Open season would be progress. Last guy didn't even get a hearing.  But yeah, I take your point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2018, 03:41:16 PM
It's not like the GOP has been bending over for the Dems when it comes to the Supreme (or any) Court. How many judges did McConnell refuse a hearing, ultimately ending up in the Garland outrage and loads of vacancies for Trump to pack with right wingers? Sotomayor was a racist according to the right for having the temerity to suggest that a perspective other than that of a white male might be valuable on the court. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 28, 2018, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/)

Good piece.  Kavanaugh isn't on trial, he's applying for a job.  Presumption of innocence applies to trials, not job applications.

My worry about that is God help the next Democratic nominee.

It is now open season if no due process is applied to claims of a serious nature.

Wait to the last minute, and bring out dramatic claims

The only issue is whether allegations are credible.

The allegations against Kavanaugh are.

Not content with coming across like somebody off their head on crystal meth pretending to be Jack Nicholson in The Shining, Lindsey Graham has threatened that any future nomineees by Democrats will be hit with made up allegations as revenge.

In any normal country, this would be the end of Graham's political career and deservedly so. In the US, he's being celebrated for it. The US is a country that has lost its mind.

There is no possible defence of the Republicans. This is a party that has well and truly nosedived into the realms of fascism.

As a thought experiment it's tragically fascinating and proves that what happened in 1930s Germany can happen anywhere.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 04:39:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 28, 2018, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/)

Good piece.  Kavanaugh isn't on trial, he's applying for a job.  Presumption of innocence applies to trials, not job applications.

My worry about that is God help the next Democratic nominee.

It is now open season if no due process is applied to claims of a serious nature.

Wait to the last minute, and bring out dramatic claims

The only issue is whether allegations are credible.

The allegations against Kavanaugh are.

Not content with coming across like somebody off their head on crystal meth pretending to be Jack Nicholson in The Shining, Lindsey Graham has threatened that any future nomineees by Democrats will be hit with made up allegations as revenge.

In any normal country, this would be the end of Graham's political career and deservedly so. In the US, he's being celebrated for it. The US is a country that has lost its mind.

There is no possible defence of the Republicans. This is a party that has well and truly nosedived into the realms of fascism.

As a thought experiment it's tragically fascinating and proves that what happened in 1930s Germany can happen anywhere.

It's fascinating. The party that led the fight for the union and eliminated slavery, which was the main party for African Amercians, has lost it's sole, drip by drip, starting in the 60's when it picked up the anti civil rights southern democrats, unit now where it looks like it's about to drop off a cliff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 28, 2018, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/)

Good piece.  Kavanaugh isn't on trial, he's applying

Fascism was p for a job.  Presumption of innocence applies to trials, not job applications.

My worry about that is God help the next Democratic nominee.

It is now open season if no due process is applied to claims of a serious nature.

Wait to the last minute, and bring out dramatic claims


The only issue is whether allegations are credible.

The allegations against Kavanaugh are.

Not content with coming across like somebody off their head on crystal meth pretending to be Jack Nicholson in The Shining, Lindsey Graham has threatened that any future nomineees by Democrats will be hit with made up allegations as revenge.

In any normal country, this would be the end of Graham's political career and deservedly so. In the US, he's being celebrated for it. The US is a country that has lost its mind.

There is no possible defence of the Republicans. This is a party that has well and truly nosedived into the realms of fascism.

As a thought experiment it's tragically fascinating and proves that what happened in 1930s Germany can happen anywhere.

Fascism was a marriage of plutocracy, authoritarianism and militarism in an economic system based on debt expansion.

Beyond a certain level of debt to GDP it becomes possible. Destroy the parties of the centre , harness popular anger and away you go.
" Never again" was always bullshit.
Thatcher and Reagan knew what they were doing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 28, 2018, 05:22:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 28, 2018, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/)

Good piece.  Kavanaugh isn't on trial, he's applying for a job.  Presumption of innocence applies to trials, not job applications.

My worry about that is God help the next Democratic nominee.

It is now open season if no due process is applied to claims of a serious nature.

Wait to the last minute, and bring out dramatic claims

The only issue is whether allegations are credible.

The allegations against Kavanaugh are.

Not content with coming across like somebody off their head on crystal meth pretending to be Jack Nicholson in The Shining, Lindsey Graham has threatened that any future nomineees by Democrats will be hit with made up allegations as revenge.

In any normal country, this would be the end of Graham's political career and deservedly so. In the US, he's being celebrated for it. The US is a country that has lost its mind.

There is no possible defence of the Republicans. This is a party that has well and truly nosedived into the realms of fascism.

As a thought experiment it's tragically fascinating and proves that what happened in 1930s Germany can happen anywhere.

Credible according to who?

Her best friend who supposedly was there said it never happened and she didn't even know Kavanaugh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 05:37:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2018, 05:22:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 28, 2018, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/)

Good piece.  Kavanaugh isn't on trial, he's applying for a job.  Presumption of innocence applies to trials, not job applications.

My worry about that is God help the next Democratic nominee.

It is now open season if no due process is applied to claims of a serious nature.

Wait to the last minute, and bring out dramatic claims

The only issue is whether allegations are credible.

The allegations against Kavanaugh are.

Not content with coming across like somebody off their head on crystal meth pretending to be Jack Nicholson in The Shining, Lindsey Graham has threatened that any future nomineees by Democrats will be hit with made up allegations as revenge.

In any normal country, this would be the end of Graham's political career and deservedly so. In the US, he's being celebrated for it. The US is a country that has lost its mind.

There is no possible defence of the Republicans. This is a party that has well and truly nosedived into the realms of fascism.

As a thought experiment it's tragically fascinating and proves that what happened in 1930s Germany can happen anywhere.

Credible according to who?

Her best friend who supposedly was there said it never happened and she didn't even know Kavanaugh
She also said she believed her.
Blasey Ford was 15. She was pushed into a room. 2 others were involved. Nobody heard a scream cos Kav had his hand over her mouth. She didn't tell anyone . A lot of abuse victims don't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 05:52:23 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/28/brett-kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford-senate-supreme-court
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on September 28, 2018, 05:52:54 PM
So let me get this straight... if there was an investigation it would delay the process to after the midterms which would mean that the Republicans would loose their majority and the Dems wouldnt vote him in? So the Reps obiviously dont want that?

But the investigation would likely find the same as we saw yesterday... a he said/she said scenario, and the nomination would have proceeded, which is why the Dems held back off this until this point.

Unfortunately everyone loses out of this:
Reps look their forcing thru a person of possible dubious character
Dems look like they have been playing for time
Cavanagh has his personal reputation in tatters
Dr Ford has her personal life and history thrust into public domain and is abused and threatened
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 28, 2018, 05:55:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 28, 2018, 05:22:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 28, 2018, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on September 28, 2018, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/)

Good piece.  Kavanaugh isn't on trial, he's applying for a job.  Presumption of innocence applies to trials, not job applications.

My worry about that is God help the next Democratic nominee.

It is now open season if no due process is applied to claims of a serious nature.

Wait to the last minute, and bring out dramatic claims

The only issue is whether allegations are credible.

The allegations against Kavanaugh are.

Not content with coming across like somebody off their head on crystal meth pretending to be Jack Nicholson in The Shining, Lindsey Graham has threatened that any future nomineees by Democrats will be hit with made up allegations as revenge.

In any normal country, this would be the end of Graham's political career and deservedly so. In the US, he's being celebrated for it. The US is a country that has lost its mind.

There is no possible defence of the Republicans. This is a party that has well and truly nosedived into the realms of fascism.

As a thought experiment it's tragically fascinating and proves that what happened in 1930s Germany can happen anywhere.

Credible according to who?

Her best friend who supposedly was there said it never happened and she didn't even know Kavanaugh
Why don't you answer yourself?

Do you believe Christine Blasey Ford's allegations are credible?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 28, 2018, 05:59:21 PM
The republicans have to vote him in simple as .
There's collateral damage in politics which miss ford is finding out if Brett is voted in I'm sure Diane and Avenatti and co will be calling by her home to comfort her and see how she's doing .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 28, 2018, 06:47:25 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/27/candidates-for-appointment-to-government-posts-or-judgeships-dont-have-a-presumption-of-innocence/)

Good piece.  Kavanaugh isn't on trial, he's applying for a job.  Presumption of innocence applies to trials, not job applications.

In that case, god help any man going for a senior ranking job from now on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 06:49:24 PM
Gmac
what is it that you think Avenatti has to do with Blasey Ford?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 28, 2018, 05:59:21 PM
The republicans have to vote him in simple as .
There's collateral damage in politics which miss ford is finding out if Brett is voted in I'm sure Diane and Avenatti and co will be calling by her home to comfort her and see how she's doing .
Collateral damage might arrive for the GOP at the midterms. Not all voters are equipped with a penis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 28, 2018, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 06:49:24 PM
Gmac
what is it that you think Avenatti has to do with Blasey Ford?

Leave him alone - his tinfoil hat is too tight
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 28, 2018, 07:09:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 28, 2018, 05:59:21 PM
The republicans have to vote him in simple as .
There's collateral damage in politics which miss ford is finding out if Brett is voted in I'm sure Diane and Avenatti and co will be calling by her home to comfort her and see how she's doing .
Collateral damage might arrive for the GOP at the midterms. Not all voters are equipped with a penis

55% of white women voted Republican in 2016. Against a female Democrat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 28, 2018, 07:19:34 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 28, 2018, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 06:49:24 PM
Gmac
what is it that you think Avenatti has to do with Blasey Ford?

Leave him alone - his tinfoil hat is too tight
hes been approved
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 07:21:42 PM

Norman Ornstein
@NormOrnstein
Enabling Trump to misuse his pardon power to obstruct justice. This is why Trump picked Kavanaugh. We slide further toward autocracy. Enabled by Flake, Corker, Graham and others. A black mark on our history.
Quote Tweet
Natasha Bertrand
@NatashaBertrand
If confirmed, Kavanaugh—who was speaking primarily to an audience of one yesterday—will be on the bench when the Supreme Court hears this landmark case that could strengthen Trump's pardon power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on September 28, 2018, 07:24:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 28, 2018, 07:19:34 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 28, 2018, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: heganboy on September 28, 2018, 06:49:24 PM
Gmac
what is it that you think Avenatti has to do with Blasey Ford?

Leave him alone - his tinfoil hat is too tight
hes been approved

Looks like it's not that simple by half.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 08:07:40 PM
Jeff Flake, the snowflakes at Yale Law School and the American Bar Association have asked for further investigations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 28, 2018, 08:10:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2018, 08:07:40 PM
Jeff Flake, the snowflakes at Yale Law School and the American Bar Association have asked for further investigations.

Have Budweiser? That would really crush Kavanaugh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ambrose on September 28, 2018, 09:27:11 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/girlsreallyrule/status/1045747245939871746?s=21
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 28, 2018, 09:36:55 PM
The Dems are trying to impeach Clarence Thomas at the moment too which gets very little play
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2018, 01:06:57 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 28, 2018, 05:52:54 PM
So let me get this straight... if there was an investigation it would delay the process to after the midterms which would mean that the Republicans would loose their majority and the Dems wouldnt vote him in? So the Reps obiviously dont want that?

But the investigation would likely find the same as we saw yesterday... a he said/she said scenario, and the nomination would have proceeded, which is why the Dems held back off this until this point.

Unfortunately everyone loses out of this:
Reps look their forcing thru a person of possible dubious character
Dems look like they have been playing for time
Cavanagh has his personal reputation in tatters
Dr Ford has her personal life and history thrust into public domain and is abused and threatened

The closer to the midterms we get with this circus, the better it is for Dems who can rightly argue that the GOP is stacking the courts as part of an ongoing coup. The GOP will drag on this era of minority rule for as long as they can in order to stuff the pockets of themselves and their rich donors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Syferus on September 29, 2018, 01:41:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2018, 01:06:57 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 28, 2018, 05:52:54 PM
So let me get this straight... if there was an investigation it would delay the process to after the midterms which would mean that the Republicans would loose their majority and the Dems wouldnt vote him in? So the Reps obiviously dont want that?

But the investigation would likely find the same as we saw yesterday... a he said/she said scenario, and the nomination would have proceeded, which is why the Dems held back off this until this point.

Unfortunately everyone loses out of this:
Reps look their forcing thru a person of possible dubious character
Dems look like they have been playing for time
Cavanagh has his personal reputation in tatters
Dr Ford has her personal life and history thrust into public domain and is abused and threatened

The closer to the midterms we get with this circus, the better it is for Dems who can rightly argue that the GOP is stacking the courts as part of an ongoing coup. The GOP will drag on this era of minority rule for as long as they can in order to stuff the pockets of themselves and their rich donors.

The left has no one to blame but themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 29, 2018, 09:29:02 AM
https://youtu.be/7-oIV81WVzM
Great speech
And fair play to Flake
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 30, 2018, 12:07:17 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 29, 2018, 01:41:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2018, 01:06:57 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 28, 2018, 05:52:54 PM
So let me get this straight... if there was an investigation it would delay the process to after the midterms which would mean that the Republicans would loose their majority and the Dems wouldnt vote him in? So the Reps obiviously dont want that?

But the investigation would likely find the same as we saw yesterday... a he said/she said scenario, and the nomination would have proceeded, which is why the Dems held back off this until this point.

Unfortunately everyone loses out of this:
Reps look their forcing thru a person of possible dubious character
Dems look like they have been playing for time
Cavanagh has his personal reputation in tatters
Dr Ford has her personal life and history thrust into public domain and is abused and threatened

The closer to the midterms we get with this circus, the better it is for Dems who can rightly argue that the GOP is stacking the courts as part of an ongoing coup. The GOP will drag on this era of minority rule for as long as they can in order to stuff the pockets of themselves and their rich donors.

The left has no one to blame but themselves.

What "left" would you be talking about now. If there is a left that is to be found in the US you should more "rightly" call it the center. The Dems ain't no left party but as the Republican Party pushes it's center further to the right and is successful at normalizing it; continues to demonize helping poor people as that terrible socialist thing. The only thing the "left" has to blame itself for is not being as effective at propaganda as the Right. How many people do they get to vote against their economic and social self interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 30, 2018, 08:00:02 AM
Perjury

https://youtu.be/4ccXpDhMmBY

His drinking  was key

Theresa
@thibbs
·
3h

Replying to
@jdickerson
The fact that he was drinking so much, he was vomiting regularly seems like a red flag to me. When someone is puking, they're wasted. His whole sensitive stomach / ketchup on pasta thing sounds like major bs.

Nate Silver

@NateSilver538
·
7h

During the Whitehouse questions about the yearbook, he's literally almost sneering with contempt while launching into a series of wildly implausible explanations on ralphing, devil's triangle, Renate Dolphin, "boofed", etc.

https://youtu.be/4ccXpDhMmBY

Norman Ornstein

@NormOrnstein
·
32m

This is outrageous. I hope
@JeffFlake
will tell McConnell and Trump that this is unacceptable, he will vote against unless the investigation is a real and complete one.
Quote Tweet

Even worse: the WH Counsel's Office — led by Kavanaugh's top WH ally — "has given the FBI a list of witnesses they are permitted to interview."

Francis Wilkinson

@fdwilkinson
·
6h

NYT shows Kavanaugh lied repeatedly under oath about drinking and social life. Post nails him on lies on stolen Dem docs. lhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/20/brett-kavanaughs-unlikely-story-about-democrats-stolen-documents/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.d4063a606cec


NBC News reported on Saturday that the White House had placed constraints on the investigation including that the third woman to accuse Kavanaugh, Julie Swetnick, would not be questioned.



Philip Gourevitch

@PGourevitch

"Two sources familiar with the investigation said the FBI will also not be able to examine why Kavanaugh's account of his drinking at Yale University differs from those of some former classmates, who have said he was known as a heavy drinker."



@PGourevitch
·
7h

so that's a preliminary list of what the White House most fears for Kavanaugh: Swetnick, documentary corroboration of Basey Ford's post-assault encounter with Judge at supermarket, Kav's lies under oath about his drinking, and likely emergence of new corroborating witnesses



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 01, 2018, 08:00:13 AM
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/09/how-we-know-kavanaugh-is-lying
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 01, 2018, 02:59:51 PM
John Harwood

@JohnJHarwood
·
1h

the widening recognition that Kavanaugh wasn't straight under oath w/Judiciary Committee is becoming its own separate problem for his nomination whatever this week's limited FBI investigation turns up on sexual misconduct allegations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 01, 2018, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2018, 12:07:17 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 29, 2018, 01:41:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2018, 01:06:57 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 28, 2018, 05:52:54 PM
So let me get this straight... if there was an investigation it would delay the process to after the midterms which would mean that the Republicans would loose their majority and the Dems wouldnt vote him in? So the Reps obiviously dont want that?

But the investigation would likely find the same as we saw yesterday... a he said/she said scenario, and the nomination would have proceeded, which is why the Dems held back off this until this point.

Unfortunately everyone loses out of this:
Reps look their forcing thru a person of possible dubious character
Dems look like they have been playing for time
Cavanagh has his personal reputation in tatters
Dr Ford has her personal life and history thrust into public domain and is abused and threatened

The closer to the midterms we get with this circus, the better it is for Dems who can rightly argue that the GOP is stacking the courts as part of an ongoing coup. The GOP will drag on this era of minority rule for as long as they can in order to stuff the pockets of themselves and their rich donors.

The left has no one to blame but themselves.

What "left" would you be talking about now. If there is a left that is to be found in the US you should more "rightly" call it the center. The Dems ain't no left party but as the Republican Party pushes it's center further to the right and is successful at normalizing it; continues to demonize helping poor people as that terrible socialist thing. The only thing the "left" has to blame itself for is not being as effective at propaganda as the Right. How many people do they get to vote against their economic and social self interest.

As you say its all relative but you must also recognise that your idea of the left is based on what your believe to be left most likely from a European perspective

The "left/liberal" side of American politics is more progressive than true left.

The idea of "making it" thru opportunity and social mobility is deeply ingrained into American pysche in a way that Irish people would have difficulty in understanding. To have this you need a free market, a majority of Americans from all sides of the political spectrum would be loathe to give this up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 01, 2018, 04:26:40 PM
Norman Ornstein

@NormOrnstein
·
44m

Two chilling reasons why Republicans want to jam this through now. 1, Kavanaugh will give Trump total power over Mueller investigation. 2, a case that Anthony Kennedy insisted be heard this term, to block state prosecutions, would give Trump more power to pardon self and others.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on October 01, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
Like everything else, this isn't actually going anywhere. It seems like the democrats and their friends in the media like to tell each other what they want to hear and talk each other up get their readers and supporters in a frenzy and then it all falls apart and comes to nothing in the end.

It's all a charade. They publish some self referential articles and tweet each other's tweets but it's only their to stir up the base because ultimately Kavanaugh is going to get the nomination because there was nothing to back up these allegations. Just like Trump isn't going to be impeached because there is nothing to the Russia collusion allegations.

Trump will win 2020 because the Democrats have no serious candidates or even a message that might bring enough people over.

Sorry, by all means keep banging those drums if it makes you feel better but just don't kid yourself that you're doing anything other than preaching to the choir.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on October 01, 2018, 10:48:40 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 01, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
Like everything else, this isn't actually going anywhere. It seems like the democrats and their friends in the media like to tell each other what they want to hear and talk each other up get their readers and supporters in a frenzy and then it all falls apart and comes to nothing in the end.

It's all a charade. They publish some self referential articles and tweet each other's tweets but it's only their to stir up the base because ultimately Kavanaugh is going to get the nomination because there was nothing to back up these allegations. Just like Trump isn't going to be impeached because there is nothing to the Russia collusion allegations.

Trump will win 2020 because the Democrats have no serious candidates or even a message that might bring enough people over.

Sorry, by all means keep banging those drums if it makes you feel better but just don't kid yourself that you're doing anything other than preaching to the choir.

+1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2018, 11:49:24 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 01, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
Like everything else, this isn't actually going anywhere. It seems like the democrats and their friends in the media like to tell each other what they want to hear and talk each other up get their readers and supporters in a frenzy and then it all falls apart and comes to nothing in the end.

It's all a charade. They publish some self referential articles and tweet each other's tweets but it's only their to stir up the base because ultimately Kavanaugh is going to get the nomination because there was nothing to back up these allegations. Just like Trump isn't going to be impeached because there is nothing to the Russia collusion allegations.

Trump will win 2020 because the Democrats have no serious candidates or even a message that might bring enough people over.

Sorry, by all means keep banging those drums if it makes you feel better but just don't kid yourself that you're doing anything other than preaching to the choir.

Are you Newstalk Text Man?  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 02, 2018, 05:51:56 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 01, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
Like everything else, this isn't actually going anywhere. It seems like the democrats and their friends in the media like to tell each other what they want to hear and talk each other up get their readers and supporters in a frenzy and then it all falls apart and comes to nothing in the end.

It's all a charade. They publish some self referential articles and tweet each other's tweets but it's only their to stir up the base because ultimately Kavanaugh is going to get the nomination because there was nothing to back up these allegations. Just like Trump isn't going to be impeached because there is nothing to the Russia collusion allegations.

Trump will win 2020 because the Democrats have no serious candidates or even a message that might bring enough people over.

Sorry, by all means keep banging those drums if it makes you feel better but just don't kid yourself that you're doing anything other than preaching to the choir.

You are right to a degree but I think you are missing the real point... As long as the Dakotas with 4% of the population of California have 2 times the representation in the Senate, the Democrats can bloviate all they want. Mitch McConnell will decide the fate of Bret Kavanaugh even if he had a few too many beers in High School and College that led him to disremember stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 02, 2018, 06:03:47 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2018, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2018, 12:07:17 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 29, 2018, 01:41:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2018, 01:06:57 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 28, 2018, 05:52:54 PM
So let me get this straight... if there was an investigation it would delay the process to after the midterms which would mean that the Republicans would loose their majority and the Dems wouldnt vote him in? So the Reps obiviously dont want that?

But the investigation would likely find the same as we saw yesterday... a he said/she said scenario, and the nomination would have proceeded, which is why the Dems held back off this until this point.

Unfortunately everyone loses out of this:
Reps look their forcing thru a person of possible dubious character
Dems look like they have been playing for time
Cavanagh has his personal reputation in tatters
Dr Ford has her personal life and history thrust into public domain and is abused and threatened

The closer to the midterms we get with this circus, the better it is for Dems who can rightly argue that the GOP is stacking the courts as part of an ongoing coup. The GOP will drag on this era of minority rule for as long as they can in order to stuff the pockets of themselves and their rich donors.

The left has no one to blame but themselves.

What "left" would you be talking about now. If there is a left that is to be found in the US you should more "rightly" call it the center. The Dems ain't no left party but as the Republican Party pushes it's center further to the right and is successful at normalizing it; continues to demonize helping poor people as that terrible socialist thing. The only thing the "left" has to blame itself for is not being as effective at propaganda as the Right. How many people do they get to vote against their economic and social self interest.

As you say its all relative but you must also recognise that your idea of the left is based on what your believe to be left most likely from a European perspective

The "left/liberal" side of American politics is more progressive than true left.

The idea of "making it" thru opportunity and social mobility is deeply ingrained into American pysche in a way that Irish people would have difficulty in understanding. To have this you need a free market, a majority of Americans from all sides of the political spectrum would be loathe to give this up.

You make a very valid point... unfortunately for most Americans.. the American dream is the fallacy they are sold to get them to vote against their own economic self interest. Remember, Joe the plumber.. he was earning a pittance but thought he was capable of earning millions and voted for tax cuts on his perceived earnings potential. In truth he would have been better of with an increase in the minimum wage. But your are correct, a lot of us buy into the idea of "making it"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 02, 2018, 06:28:42 AM
Quote from: thejuice on October 01, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
Like everything else, this isn't actually going anywhere. It seems like the democrats and their friends in the media like to tell each other what they want to hear and talk each other up get their readers and supporters in a frenzy and then it all falls apart and comes to nothing in the end.

It's all a charade. They publish some self referential articles and tweet each other's tweets but it's only their to stir up the base because ultimately Kavanaugh is going to get the nomination because there was nothing to back up these allegations. Just like Trump isn't going to be impeached because there is nothing to the Russia collusion allegations.

Trump will win 2020 because the Democrats have no serious candidates or even a message that might bring enough people over.

Sorry, by all means keep banging those drums if it makes you feel better but just don't kid yourself that you're doing anything other than preaching to the choir.

I don't agree. We are not operating under normal conditions. Between 2016 and 2020 $24 trillion in debt will be pumped into the global economy. For growth of maybe $10 trillion. The US deficit is now $1 trillion. Fiscal rectitude used to be GOP policy. Let's see how voters like « who gives a f**k about fiscal policy « .Trump won by a couple of thousand votes in 3 States. The public everywhere is volatile and nowhere is it being served.
Nobody is in charge. Nobody knows what will happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on October 02, 2018, 02:18:35 PM
Because GOP voters have got tired of losing and getting hung by their own principles. Hence you got a bastard like Trump in the office. He's there to win. He defied every standard set in previous elections. The base didn't care in the slightest despite all the jumping up and down by the media and opposition in the GOP itself. He's there to build a wall, drain the swamp and deport illegals etc etc. The old Movement conservatism and neoconservativism are falling by the wayside for a new type of populist right that traded losing with principles for winning by hook or by crook. Hence you don't get support for wars in Syria or people moaning about the deficit (libertarians excepted). You are right. It's not "normal conditions" anymore.

There is a battle going on within the Democrats too between the establishment liberal democrats and social democracy types further to the left. That might not have played out by the time the election comes around.

It may well prove to be relatively easy for some "Russian bots" to sow divisions among the increasingly diverse Democratic voter base when it comes to choosing a candidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2018, 02:56:31 PM
How have they been "losing and getting hung by their own principles"?

They've controlled the House for 20 of the past 24 years. The Senate 14 of the last 24 years. They've won three of the past five presidential elections, two on a minority of the vote. We never stop hearing about the state and local election victories they've been piling up since 2010. The control most of the rural states where the value of a vote is inflated relative to the populous states.

And the "moaning about the deficit" and the national debt will return as a concern the second a Democrat wins the White House back, just like it has done every time before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 02, 2018, 04:16:02 PM
The GOP purged a lot of moderates after the Tea Party or during it and now you can see the result in the Senate. Even after Trump had that presser with Putin the party is filled with loyalist drones. Collins , Murkowski and Flake are the only exceptions.
Flake said he would not have held up the confirmation if he was seeking re-election. He also said reaching across the aisle is dying.
The US has gone through this before. The answer is institutions that bring people together.
Most of the stuff happening now is a waste of time until we get fundamental change.

But the man's too strong

https://youtu.be/BOrXTZyXWLg







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 02, 2018, 08:22:43 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 02, 2018, 02:18:35 PM
Because GOP voters have got tired of losing and getting hung by their own principles. Hence you got a b**tard like Trump in the office. He's there to win. He defied every standard set in previous elections. The base didn't care in the slightest despite all the jumping up and down by the media and opposition in the GOP itself. He's there to build a wall, drain the swamp and deport illegals etc etc. The old Movement conservatism and neoconservativism are falling by the wayside for a new type of populist right that traded losing with principles for winning by hook or by crook. Hence you don't get support for wars in Syria or people moaning about the deficit (libertarians excepted). You are right. It's not "normal conditions" anymore.

There is a battle going on within the Democrats too between the establishment liberal democrats and social democracy types further to the left. That might not have played out by the time the election comes around.

It may well prove to be relatively easy for some "Russian bots" to sow divisions among the increasingly diverse Democratic voter base when it comes to choosing a candidate.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/republican-party-conservative/571747/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 03, 2018, 01:38:30 AM
Wonder if Trump will sue the NY times for the article on his actual wealth and what his father left him while peddling the $1M loan story as fact. Or as usual will he threaten to and do nothing...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 07:33:47 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 03, 2018, 01:38:30 AM
Wonder if Trump will sue the NY times for the article on his actual wealth and what his father left him while peddling the $1M loan story as fact. Or as usual will he threaten to and do nothing...

If he sues for defamation wouldn't he have to reveal his tax returns?
I think this is why he wants to get rid of Rosenstein and to have Kavanaugh confirmed. He would then be untouchable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 12:07:06 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2018, 10:48:40 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 01, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
Like everything else, this isn't actually going anywhere. It seems like the democrats and their friends in the media like to tell each other what they want to hear and talk each other up get their readers and supporters in a frenzy and then it all falls apart and comes to nothing in the end.

It's all a charade. They publish some self referential articles and tweet each other's tweets but it's only their to stir up the base because ultimately Kavanaugh is going to get the nomination because there was nothing to back up these allegations. Just like Trump isn't going to be impeached because there is nothing to the Russia collusion allegations.

Trump will win 2020 because the Democrats have no serious candidates or even a message that might bring enough people over.

Sorry, by all means keep banging those drums if it makes you feel better but just don't kid yourself that you're doing anything other than preaching to the choir.

+1

+2.

Watched 10 minutes of Bill Maher the other night and it was like him talking to himself in the mirror. Audience clapping like seals on cue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?

And... cheated on him, ran up bills on his credit cards and lied about it. Only when he threatened fraud action did she confess. Not to mention the whole plane thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 01:15:37 PM
It will come down to Murkowski, Collins and Flake and whether they think he lied.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:36:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?

And... cheated on him, ran up bills on his credit cards and lied about it. Only when he threatened fraud action did she confess. Not to mention the whole plane thing.

And?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2018, 01:47:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 12:07:06 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2018, 10:48:40 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 01, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
Like everything else, this isn't actually going anywhere. It seems like the democrats and their friends in the media like to tell each other what they want to hear and talk each other up get their readers and supporters in a frenzy and then it all falls apart and comes to nothing in the end.

It's all a charade. They publish some self referential articles and tweet each other's tweets but it's only their to stir up the base because ultimately Kavanaugh is going to get the nomination because there was nothing to back up these allegations. Just like Trump isn't going to be impeached because there is nothing to the Russia collusion allegations.

Trump will win 2020 because the Democrats have no serious candidates or even a message that might bring enough people over.

Sorry, by all means keep banging those drums if it makes you feel better but just don't kid yourself that you're doing anything other than preaching to the choir.

+1

+2.

Watched 10 minutes of Bill Maher the other night and it was like him talking to himself in the mirror. Audience clapping like seals on cue.

Maher gives his own audience shit from time to time for that. He acknowledges its a partisan audience and indeed complements his conservative guests on having the balls to come on in spite of it.

But... so what?

Are you suggesting that the exact same thing DOESN'T happen on the right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:36:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?

And... cheated on him, ran up bills on his credit cards and lied about it. Only when he threatened fraud action did she confess. Not to mention the whole plane thing.

And?

It appears to be an attempt to show that they BOTH perjured themselves.

Which is fine.

But only one is up for a job on the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 01:58:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

Slightly misleading there whitey (totally innocent on your part I'm sure  ::))

"Dr. Ford explained in detail what to expect, how polygraphs worked and helped McLean become familiar and less nervous about the exam."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 03, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:36:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?

And... cheated on him, ran up bills on his credit cards and lied about it. Only when he threatened fraud action did she confess. Not to mention the whole plane thing.

And?

It appears to be an attempt to show that they BOTH perjured themselves.

Which is fine.

But only one is up for a job on the Supreme Court.

HahahHa

I said I thought the whole thing was a dirty trick when it broke and that's now looking very possible

Any Dem who touched this is toast if they want to run in 2020



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 02:05:29 PM
Did your talk radio buddies tell you that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:36:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?

And... cheated on him, ran up bills on his credit cards and lied about it. Only when he threatened fraud action did she confess. Not to mention the whole plane thing.

And?

It appears to be an attempt to show that they BOTH perjured themselves.

Which is fine.

But only one is up for a job on the Supreme Court.

HahahHa

I said I thought the whole thing was a dirty trick when it broke and that's now looking very possible

Any Dem who touched this is toast if they want to run in 2020

Do you realise who the current president is and the amount of shit he's touched??!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:36:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?

And... cheated on him, ran up bills on his credit cards and lied about it. Only when he threatened fraud action did she confess. Not to mention the whole plane thing.

And?

It appears to be an attempt to show that they BOTH perjured themselves.

Which is fine.

But only one is up for a job on the Supreme Court.

HahahHa

I said I thought the whole thing was a dirty trick when it broke and that's now looking very possible

Any Dem who touched this is toast if they want to run in 2020

You think EVERYTHING by the Democrats is a "dirty trick". You try to pass yourself off as reasonable, yet dive for the lowest, worst possible interpretation of anything, no matter what it is, when it comes to liberals and the Democratic Party. But the GOP... You were posting nonsense here last week about two boys supposedly showing up and admitting to the Senate that it was in fact THEM who assaulted Ford.

The obvious answer here is a very thorough investigation. Presumably Trump and McConnell and Grassley will be open to that now?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 03, 2018, 02:18:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:36:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?

And... cheated on him, ran up bills on his credit cards and lied about it. Only when he threatened fraud action did she confess. Not to mention the whole plane thing.

And?

It appears to be an attempt to show that they BOTH perjured themselves.

Which is fine.

But only one is up for a job on the Supreme Court.

HahahHa

I said I thought the whole thing was a dirty trick when it broke and that's now looking very possible

Any Dem who touched this is toast if they want to run in 2020

You think EVERYTHING by the Democrats is a "dirty trick". You try to pass yourself off as reasonable, yet dive for the lowest, worst possible interpretation of anything, no matter what it is, when it comes to liberals and the Democratic Party. But the GOP... You were posting nonsense here last week about two boys supposedly showing up and admitting to the Senate that it was in fact THEM who assaulted Ford.

The obvious answer here is a very thorough investigation. Presumably Trump and McConnell and Grassley will be open to that now?

Reread my post from last week.....I said unverified

The 2 pillars of Dr Fords credibility are her therapist reports and her passing a lie deector test

Therapist notes haven't been handed over (and seemingly claim something completely different happened) and now the lie detector pillar is seemingly crumbling

But believe whatever you want........keep it up and keep her lit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2018, 02:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 02:18:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:36:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?

And... cheated on him, ran up bills on his credit cards and lied about it. Only when he threatened fraud action did she confess. Not to mention the whole plane thing.

And?

It appears to be an attempt to show that they BOTH perjured themselves.

Which is fine.

But only one is up for a job on the Supreme Court.

HahahHa

I said I thought the whole thing was a dirty trick when it broke and that's now looking very possible

Any Dem who touched this is toast if they want to run in 2020

You think EVERYTHING by the Democrats is a "dirty trick". You try to pass yourself off as reasonable, yet dive for the lowest, worst possible interpretation of anything, no matter what it is, when it comes to liberals and the Democratic Party. But the GOP... You were posting nonsense here last week about two boys supposedly showing up and admitting to the Senate that it was in fact THEM who assaulted Ford.

The obvious answer here is a very thorough investigation. Presumably Trump and McConnell and Grassley will be open to that now?

Reread my post from last week.....I said unverified

The 2 pillars of Dr Fords credibility are her therapist reports and her passing a lie deector test

Therapist notes haven't been handed over (and seemingly claim something completely different happened) and now the lie detector pillar is seemingly crumbling

But believe whatever you want........keep it up and keep her lit

I don't know WHO to believe. YOU are the only one who has been speaking with certainty.

Which is why a proper independent investigation ( which we are only getting thanks to Jeff Flake being shamed into it) is needed.

The two boyos story was suspect as hell to anyone ( and news for about an hour), yet you rushed on here to post it for the purpose of casting doubt on Ford's story. Would you have done so if it was potentially damaging to Kavanaugh? A number of stories that cut against Kavanaugh have been appearing over the past few days, yet no one else says much, if anything, about them here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
Kavanaugh is a liar


https://youtu.be/4ccXpDhMmBY

The GOP getting poor white people to support him is genius.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on October 03, 2018, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2018, 02:56:31 PM
How have they been "losing and getting hung by their own principles"?

They've controlled the House for 20 of the past 24 years. The Senate 14 of the last 24 years. They've won three of the past five presidential elections, two on a minority of the vote. We never stop hearing about the state and local election victories they've been piling up since 2010. The control most of the rural states where the value of a vote is inflated relative to the populous states.

And the "moaning about the deficit" and the national debt will return as a concern the second a Democrat wins the White House back, just like it has done every time before.

The GOP party wins but their voters get little back in return. That frustration that's built up over the years. They want out of the wars, the foreign intervention, they want immigration trends effectively reversed and so forth. That's what they want now. That's whats changing. And yes there is a racial aspect to all this too as I've said many times before.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1468316974/?coliid=IBJO1DF7OAV9J&colid=1J8NO9WF1BARU&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

To quote Rolf Harris of all people; "Can you tell what it is yet?"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:31:53 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 03, 2018, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2018, 02:56:31 PM
How have they been "losing and getting hung by their own principles"?

They've controlled the House for 20 of the past 24 years. The Senate 14 of the last 24 years. They've won three of the past five presidential elections, two on a minority of the vote. We never stop hearing about the state and local election victories they've been piling up since 2010. The control most of the rural states where the value of a vote is inflated relative to the populous states.

And the "moaning about the deficit" and the national debt will return as a concern the second a Democrat wins the White House back, just like it has done every time before.

The GOP party wins but their voters get little back in return. That frustration that's built up over the years. They want out of the wars, the foreign intervention, they want immigration trends effectively reversed and so forth. That's what they want now. That's whats changing. And yes there is a racial aspect to all this too as I've said many times before.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1468316974/?coliid=IBJO1DF7OAV9J&colid=1J8NO9WF1BARU&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

To quote Rolf Harris of all people; "Can you tell what it is yet?"

Yet these were the same people screaming "treason" at the left and "USA, USA, USA" and burning Dixie Chicks cds, cheering on the Iraq war and Freedom Fries, during the Bush years.

I wish they'd make up their f**king minds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
Kavanaugh is a liar


https://youtu.be/4ccXpDhMmBY

The GOP getting poor white people to support him is genius.

It's possible that a slang changed meaning in 36 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
Kavanaugh is a liar


https://youtu.be/4ccXpDhMmBY

The GOP getting poor white people to support him is genius.

It's possible that a slang changed meaning in 36 years.

Is it ?
He lied about his drinking too. He would have been better off being honest but he thought he would get an easy confirmation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: thejuice on October 03, 2018, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2018, 02:56:31 PM
How have they been "losing and getting hung by their own principles"?

They've controlled the House for 20 of the past 24 years. The Senate 14 of the last 24 years. They've won three of the past five presidential elections, two on a minority of the vote. We never stop hearing about the state and local election victories they've been piling up since 2010. The control most of the rural states where the value of a vote is inflated relative to the populous states.

And the "moaning about the deficit" and the national debt will return as a concern the second a Democrat wins the White House back, just like it has done every time before.

The GOP party wins but their voters get little back in return. That frustration that's built up over the years. They want out of the wars, the foreign intervention, they want immigration trends effectively reversed and so forth. That's what they want now. That's whats changing. And yes there is a racial aspect to all this too as I've said many times before.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1468316974/?coliid=IBJO1DF7OAV9J&colid=1J8NO9WF1BARU&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

To quote Rolf Harris of all people; "Can you tell what it is yet?"

The economic system is the problem. Identity politics obscure that.
Debt is issued at the rate of $16 million per minute. There is no point.

It has got to the stage where the system works for nobody but a handful of billionaires. White people and Hispanics and African Americans all get shafted. They all need change.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on October 03, 2018, 03:47:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
Kavanaugh is a liar


https://youtu.be/4ccXpDhMmBY

The GOP getting poor white people to support him is genius.

It's possible that a slang changed meaning in 36 years.
Anyone with any sense can see he is flat out lying. Whatever about the allegations, you cant be appointed a supreme court judge if you have been found to be bare faced lying in your job interview. That's my opinion anyway, which I don't think is unreasonable. If you don't care that he is lying, and think he should be appointed anyway, then his supporters and republicans should just say that, own it, rather than looking ridiculous trying to explain every bit of bullshit he spouted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:50:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 02:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 02:18:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:36:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 03, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.

And?

And... cheated on him, ran up bills on his credit cards and lied about it. Only when he threatened fraud action did she confess. Not to mention the whole plane thing.

And?

It appears to be an attempt to show that they BOTH perjured themselves.

Which is fine.

But only one is up for a job on the Supreme Court.

HahahHa

I said I thought the whole thing was a dirty trick when it broke and that's now looking very possible

Any Dem who touched this is toast if they want to run in 2020

You think EVERYTHING by the Democrats is a "dirty trick". You try to pass yourself off as reasonable, yet dive for the lowest, worst possible interpretation of anything, no matter what it is, when it comes to liberals and the Democratic Party. But the GOP... You were posting nonsense here last week about two boys supposedly showing up and admitting to the Senate that it was in fact THEM who assaulted Ford.

The obvious answer here is a very thorough investigation. Presumably Trump and McConnell and Grassley will be open to that now?

Reread my post from last week.....I said unverified

The 2 pillars of Dr Fords credibility are her therapist reports and her passing a lie deector test

Therapist notes haven't been handed over (and seemingly claim something completely different happened) and now the lie detector pillar is seemingly crumbling

But believe whatever you want........keep it up and keep her lit

I don't know WHO to believe. YOU are the only one who has been speaking with certainty.

Which is why a proper independent investigation ( which we are only getting thanks to Jeff Flake being shamed into it) is needed.

The two boyos story was suspect as hell to anyone ( and news for about an hour), yet you rushed on here to post it for the purpose of casting doubt on Ford's story. Would you have done so if it was potentially damaging to Kavanaugh? A number of stories that cut against Kavanaugh have been appearing over the past few days, yet no one else says much, if anything, about them here.

Wrong again.....this morning I said "seemingly" they have the testimony of Dr Fords ex boyfriend

I don't believe anyone.

(If Kavanaugh gets shot down he'll never have to work another day in his life. He could retire on the interest alone from all defamation lawsuits he would win)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.

And I think I have been proven right, don't you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.

And I think I have been proven right, don't you

I don't see how you can say you've been proven right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 03, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.

And I think I have been proven right, don't you

I don't see how you can say you've been proven right.

It's because he's a brainwashed idiot.

That was established years ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 04:53:57 PM
Juice

Where does the anger come from?

Norman Ornstein
@NormOrnstein
·
52m
In 10 years or less, more than half the jobs in America will be non-traditional ones, a part of the gig economy, where people will not get benefits provided by employers. Without the ACA, large numbers of them would be adrift, Without fundamental health protections
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 03, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.

And I think I have been proven right, don't you

I don't see how you can say you've been proven right.

It's because he's a brainwashed idiot.

That was established years ago.

I've been a lot more right than I've been wrong in this board

Time will tell, but when the dust settles this will be exposed as a dirty trick

In the era of "me too" they'd have run with this back in Julybufvthere was anything credible here (and don't insult me and yourself by saying they wanted to protect her privacy)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 03, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.

And I think I have been proven right, don't you

I don't see how you can say you've been proven right.

It's because he's a brainwashed idiot.

That was established years ago.

I've been a lot more right than I've been wrong in this board

Time will tell, but when the dust settles this will be exposed as a dirty trick

In the era of "me too" they'd have run with this back in Julybufvthere was anything credible here (and don't insult me and yourself by saying they wanted to protect her privacy)
What have you been right about , as a matter of interest?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2018, 05:29:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 03, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.

And I think I have been proven right, don't you

I don't see how you can say you've been proven right.

It's because he's a brainwashed idiot.

That was established years ago.

I've been a lot more right than I've been wrong in this board

Time will tell, but when the dust settles this will be exposed as a dirty trick

In the era of "me too" they'd have run with this back in Julybufvthere was anything credible here (and don't insult me and yourself by saying they wanted to protect her privacy)

Who are YOU to say whether what Ford alleges is credible or not?

Again with the certainty.

That Feinstein played it for partisan purposes AND Ford is telling the truth are not mutually exclusive propositions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:35:47 PM
It's a discussion board the last time I checked.....you know one like where people express opinions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 03, 2018, 06:57:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2018, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 03, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.


And I think I have been proven right, don't you

I don't see how you can say you've been proven right.

It's because he's a brainwashed idiot.

That was established years ago.

I've been a lot more right than I've been wrong in this board

Time will tell, but when the dust settles this will be exposed as a dirty trick

In the era of "me too" they'd have run with this back in Julybufvthere was anything credible here (and don't insult me and yourself by saying they wanted to protect her privacy)
What have you been right about , as a matter of interest?

In fairness Whitey is way "Right" about most things😉
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 03, 2018, 10:14:41 PM
Hilarious!

Proven right, sure you were chief, sure you were. Unquestionably!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 03, 2018, 11:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.
ford herself only answered 2 questions in her polygraph
No word on Russian collusion for a while wonder what's going on there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 04, 2018, 12:03:48 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 03, 2018, 11:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.
ford herself only answered 2 questions in her polygraph
No word on Russian collusion for a while wonder what's going on there


GMAC, you are typing a lot like a fellow with a street address in St. Petersburg and I ain't referring to the one in Florida.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2018, 12:06:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:35:47 PM
It's a discussion board the last time I checked.....you know one like where people express opinions

The "I'm entitled to my opinion" defence. The last resort of the defeated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 04, 2018, 01:04:52 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 04, 2018, 12:03:48 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 03, 2018, 11:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.
ford herself only answered 2 questions in her polygraph
No word on Russian collusion for a while wonder what's going on there
no my man I'm in far left heaven sf Bay Area


GMAC, you are typing a lot like a fellow with a street address in St. Petersburg and I ain't referring to the one in Florida.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2018, 01:51:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2018, 12:06:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:35:47 PM
It's a discussion board the last time I checked.....you know one like where people express opinions

The "I'm entitled to my opinion" defence. The last resort of the defeated.

Lol-Well most opinions on here are gleaned exclusively from CNN and The NY Times talking points.

Anyone who offers a different opinion is either:

Rascist

Islamophibic

Stupid

hates poor/sick people

A cvnt


All of the above
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 04, 2018, 02:11:41 AM
I have a different opinion from your two vanilla talking points. Don't think I fall under any of your bullet points.

Keep going though...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 04, 2018, 03:22:58 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 04, 2018, 01:04:52 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 04, 2018, 12:03:48 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 03, 2018, 11:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
Seemingly Dr Fords ex boyfriend has signed a sworn affadavit stating that he witnessed her coaching a friend on how to pass a polygraph.
ford herself only answered 2 questions in her polygraph
No word on Russian collusion for a while wonder what's going on there
no my man I'm in far left heaven sf Bay Area


GMAC, you are typing a lot like a fellow with a street address in St. Petersburg and I ain't referring to the one in Florida.

Are you for or agin HIGH SPEED rail?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 07:14:15 AM
The FBI investigation was very restricted and looks like a stitch up. Assume that the 3 GOP holdouts fold and Kav is confirmed. There is enough evidence that he lied under oath. Why did he lie?
And there are many former friends who would testify against him. If he gets through on Saturday it is not happily ever after.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 07:31:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 01:51:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2018, 12:06:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:35:47 PM
It's a discussion board the last time I checked.....you know one like where people express opinions

The "I'm entitled to my opinion" defence. The last resort of the defeated.

Lol-Well most opinions on here are gleaned exclusively from CNN and The NY Times talking points.

Anyone who offers a different opinion is either:

Rascist

Islamophibic

Stupid

hates poor/sick people

A cvnt


All of the above
Gullible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 03, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.

And I think I have been proven right, don't you

I don't see how you can say you've been proven right.

It's because he's a brainwashed idiot.

That was established years ago.

I've been a lot more right than I've been wrong in this board

Time will tell, but when the dust settles this will be exposed as a dirty trick

In the era of "me too" they'd have run with this back in Julybufvthere was anything credible here (and don't insult me and yourself by saying they wanted to protect her privacy)

Not this time . . .

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/christine-fords-friend-denies-being-helped-on-polygraph-fires-back-at-new-claims

I used Fox News as a source as clearly you won't accept anything else!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 12:16:22 PM
The US is hopelessly polarised

I was watching Hannitty. A family man, no corroboration, a flawless record

https://youtu.be/YWatL9XCG5M

But Kav did dig himself a huge hole

https://youtu.be/4ccXpDhMmBY

Fox is the modern day Tammany Hall
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 03, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.

And I think I have been proven right, don't you

I don't see how you can say you've been proven right.

It's because he's a brainwashed idiot.

That was established years ago.

I've been a lot more right than I've been wrong in this board

Time will tell, but when the dust settles this will be exposed as a dirty trick

In the era of "me too" they'd have run with this back in Julybufvthere was anything credible here (and don't insult me and yourself by saying they wanted to protect her privacy)

Not this time . . .

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/christine-fords-friend-denies-being-helped-on-polygraph-fires-back-at-new-claims

I used Fox News as a source as clearly you won't accept anything else!!
m
Haha....she "supposedly" prepped for a job interview at the FBI....a job she eventually got. What do you expect her to say.

If a former girlfriend of Kavanaugh signed a sworn affadavit detailing abuse of some kind or alcohol related blackouts.......it would be game over
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2018, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 07:14:15 AM
The FBI investigation was very restricted and looks like a stitch up. Assume that the 3 GOP holdouts fold and Kav is confirmed. There is enough evidence that he lied under oath. Why did he lie?
And there are many former friends who would testify against him. If he gets through on Saturday it is not happily ever after.

It's all subjective. He has some friends who say he was a moderate drinker and others who say the opposite.


My parents are Pioneers.....if they saw someone drink 4pints they'd be signing them into St John of Gods. 

Acquaintances of mine drink 10 pints every Saturday night and view themselves as moderate drinkers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 04, 2018, 12:59:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 03, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Well you definitively outlined a few days back that you DIDN'T believe Ford.

That is "certainty" in anyone's book.

And I think I have been proven right, don't you

I don't see how you can say you've been proven right.

It's because he's a brainwashed idiot.

That was established years ago.

I've been a lot more right than I've been wrong in this board

Time will tell, but when the dust settles this will be exposed as a dirty trick

In the era of "me too" they'd have run with this back in Julybufvthere was anything credible here (and don't insult me and yourself by saying they wanted to protect her privacy)

Not this time . . .

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/christine-fords-friend-denies-being-helped-on-polygraph-fires-back-at-new-claims

I used Fox News as a source as clearly you won't accept anything else!!
m
Haha....she "supposedly" prepped for a job interview at the FBI....a job she eventually got. What do you expect her to say.

If a former girlfriend of Kavanaugh signed a sworn affadavit detailing abuse of some kind or alcohol related blackouts.......it would be game over

And if Ford was testifying against a Republican, YOU'D be floating the bitter ex-boyfriend angle and shouting QED the other way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 07:14:15 AM
The FBI investigation was very restricted and looks like a stitch up. Assume that the 3 GOP holdouts fold and Kav is confirmed. There is enough evidence that he lied under oath. Why did he lie?
And there are many former friends who would testify against him. If he gets through on Saturday it is not happily ever after.

It's all subjective. He has some friends who say he was a moderate drinker and others who say the opposite.


My parents are Pioneers.....if they saw someone drink 4pints they'd be signing them into St John of Gods. 

Acquaintances of mine drink 10 pints every Saturday night and view themselves as moderate drinkers
It isn't subjective. Kav did 2 things in particular at the Senate. He changed all the sexual references in his yearbook to farting/drinking and he denied he ever blacked out. In both cases he was lying. Surely the GOP could come up with someone credible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2018, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 07:14:15 AM
The FBI investigation was very restricted and looks like a stitch up. Assume that the 3 GOP holdouts fold and Kav is confirmed. There is enough evidence that he lied under oath. Why did he lie?
And there are many former friends who would testify against him. If he gets through on Saturday it is not happily ever after.

It's all subjective. He has some friends who say he was a moderate drinker and others who say the opposite.


My parents are Pioneers.....if they saw someone drink 4pints they'd be signing them into St John of Gods. 

Acquaintances of mine drink 10 pints every Saturday night and view themselves as moderate drinkers
It isn't subjective. Kav did 2 things in particular at the Senate. He changed all the sexual references in his yearbook to farting/drinking and he denied he ever blacked out. In both cases he was lying. Surely the GOP could come up with someone credible


And Fords yearbook was supposedly removed/scrubbed from the internet according to one source- ("unverified") so is that evidence she's lying????

https://www.quora.com/Was-Blasey-Fords-yearbook-scrubbed-from-the-internet-as-claimed-in-this-article

"Probably. Despite what the other commentators say a right wing propaganda site can be correct sometimes."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 01:32:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 07:14:15 AM
The FBI investigation was very restricted and looks like a stitch up. Assume that the 3 GOP holdouts fold and Kav is confirmed. There is enough evidence that he lied under oath. Why did he lie?
And there are many former friends who would testify against him. If he gets through on Saturday it is not happily ever after.

It's all subjective. He has some friends who say he was a moderate drinker and others who say the opposite.


My parents are Pioneers.....if they saw someone drink 4pints they'd be signing them into St John of Gods. 

Acquaintances of mine drink 10 pints every Saturday night and view themselves as moderate drinkers
It isn't subjective. Kav did 2 things in particular at the Senate. He changed all the sexual references in his yearbook to farting/drinking and he denied he ever blacked out. In both cases he was lying. Surely the GOP could come up with someone credible


And Fords yearbook was supposedly removed/scrubbed from the internet according to one source- ("unverified") so is that evidence she's lying????

https://www.quora.com/Was-Blasey-Fords-yearbook-scrubbed-from-the-internet-as-claimed-in-this-article

"Probably. Despite what the other commentators say a right wing propaganda site can be correct sometimes."
Kav said Holton was very far away from his school. He said Blasey Ford could never have been in his social circle. One of his friends dated her. He is a lying PoS

Kyle Griffin

@kylegriffin1
·
15h

Mark Judge and two other classmates wrote an underground student newspaper, NYT reports, that jabbed neighboring schools, including Holton-Arms.

The paper claimed a public library card was "all it takes to have a good time with any H.H. (Holton Hosebag)."



Kyle Griffin

@kylegriffin1
·
15h

4 Georgetown Prep classmates tell NYT they saw Kavanaugh and friends partake in binge-drinking rituals many weekends in which others saw them inebriated and having difficulty standing. 3 of those classmates signed a July letter endorsing him for SCOTUS.


Kyle Griffin

@kylegriffin1

Here it is. In a 1983 letter, a copy of which was reviewed by NYT, Brett Kavanaugh warned his friends of the danger of eviction from an Ocean City, MD condo: "Warn the neighbors that we're loud, obnoxious drunks with prolific pukers among us."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 04, 2018, 01:38:06 PM
The rabbit hole runs very deep, far beyond the comprehension of the CNN parrots posting here.  An independent investigation is needed, not an FBI one. They will not investigate the CIA and Julie Swetnik connections to the Blasey family. That would open some can of worms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2018, 01:40:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 01:32:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 07:14:15 AM
The FBI investigation was very restricted and looks like a stitch up. Assume that the 3 GOP holdouts fold and Kav is confirmed. There is enough evidence that he lied under oath. Why did he lie?
And there are many former friends who would testify against him. If he gets through on Saturday it is not happily ever after.

It's all subjective. He has some friends who say he was a moderate drinker and others who say the opposite.


My parents are Pioneers.....if they saw someone drink 4pints they'd be signing them into St John of Gods. 

Acquaintances of mine drink 10 pints every Saturday night and view themselves as moderate drinkers
It isn't subjective. Kav did 2 things in particular at the Senate. He changed all the sexual references in his yearbook to farting/drinking and he denied he ever blacked out. In both cases he was lying. Surely the GOP could come up with someone credible


And Fords yearbook was supposedly removed/scrubbed from the internet according to one source- ("unverified") so is that evidence she's lying????

https://www.quora.com/Was-Blasey-Fords-yearbook-scrubbed-from-the-internet-as-claimed-in-this-article

"Probably. Despite what the other commentators say a right wing propaganda site can be correct sometimes."
Kav said Holton was very far away from his school. He said Blasey Ford could never have been in his social circle. One of his friends dated her. He is a lying PoS

Kyle Griffin

@kylegriffin1
·
15h

Mark Judge and two other classmates wrote an underground student newspaper, NYT reports, that jabbed neighboring schools, including Holton-Arms.

The paper claimed a public library card was "all it takes to have a good time with any H.H. (Holton Hosebag)."



Kyle Griffin

@kylegriffin1
·
15h

4 Georgetown Prep classmates tell NYT they saw Kavanaugh and friends partake in binge-drinking rituals many weekends in which others saw them inebriated and having difficulty standing. 3 of those classmates signed a July letter endorsing him for SCOTUS.


Kyle Griffin

@kylegriffin1

Here it is. In a 1983 letter, a copy of which was reviewed by NYT, Brett Kavanaugh warned his friends of the danger of eviction from an Ocean City, MD condo: "Warn the neighbors that we're loud, obnoxious drunks with prolific pukers among us."

Blah blah blah.....answer the question I asked

Have her year book been scrubbed?

If so when?

If so why?

If so by whom?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 01:53:14 PM
"Whitey" pushing an Alex Jones conspiracy theory now, I see.

He makes it so easy for people to deservedly dismiss him.

I think this place would suit you better, "whitey".

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2018, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 01:53:14 PM
"Whitey" pushing an Alex Jones conspiracy theory now, I see.

He makes it so easy for people to deservedly dismiss him.

I think this place would suit you better, "whitey".

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Prove me wrong that they haven't been scrubbed

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/09/27/blasey_ford_yearbooks.html



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 01:40:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 01:32:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 07:14:15 AM
The FBI investigation was very restricted and looks like a stitch up. Assume that the 3 GOP holdouts fold and Kav is confirmed. There is enough evidence that he lied under oath. Why did he lie?
And there are many former friends who would testify against him. If he gets through on Saturday it is not happily ever after.

It's all subjective. He has some friends who say he was a moderate drinker and others who say the opposite.


My parents are Pioneers.....if they saw someone drink 4pints they'd be signing them into St John of Gods. 

Acquaintances of mine drink 10 pints every Saturday night and view themselves as moderate drinkers
It isn't subjective. Kav did 2 things in particular at the Senate. He changed all the sexual references in his yearbook to farting/drinking and he denied he ever blacked out. In both cases he was lying. Surely the GOP could come up with someone credible


And Fords yearbook was supposedly removed/scrubbed from the internet according to one source- ("unverified") so is that evidence she's lying????

https://www.quora.com/Was-Blasey-Fords-yearbook-scrubbed-from-the-internet-as-claimed-in-this-article

"Probably. Despite what the other commentators say a right wing propaganda site can be correct sometimes."
Kav said Holton was very far away from his school. He said Blasey Ford could never have been in his social circle. One of his friends dated her. He is a lying PoS

Kyle Griffin

@kylegriffin1
·
15h

Mark Judge and two other classmates wrote an underground student newspaper, NYT reports, that jabbed neighboring schools, including Holton-Arms.

The paper claimed a public library card was "all it takes to have a good time with any H.H. (Holton Hosebag)."



Kyle Griffin

@kylegriffin1
·
15h

4 Georgetown Prep classmates tell NYT they saw Kavanaugh and friends partake in binge-drinking rituals many weekends in which others saw them inebriated and having difficulty standing. 3 of those classmates signed a July letter endorsing him for SCOTUS.


Kyle Griffin

@kylegriffin1

Here it is. In a 1983 letter, a copy of which was reviewed by NYT, Brett Kavanaugh warned his friends of the danger of eviction from an Ocean City, MD condo: "Warn the neighbors that we're loud, obnoxious drunks with prolific pukers among us."

Blah blah blah.....answer the question I asked

Have her year book been scrubbed?

If so when?

If so why?

If so by whom?
Is he fit for the SC or not?

Obviously not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 02:18:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 01:53:14 PM
"Whitey" pushing an Alex Jones conspiracy theory now, I see.

He makes it so easy for people to deservedly dismiss him.

I think this place would suit you better, "whitey".

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Prove me wrong that they haven't been scrubbed

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/09/27/blasey_ford_yearbooks.html

Has she been nominated for SC?

What relevance would her yearbooks have toward anything? Also it's a f**king yearbook . . . what the f**k relevance have yearbooks toward anything I don't even agree with them being used against Kav!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2018, 02:19:25 PM
If it was scrubbed ahead of time it points to a hit job (imho)

If his had been scrubbed it would be evidence of a cover up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 02:18:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 01:53:14 PM
"Whitey" pushing an Alex Jones conspiracy theory now, I see.

He makes it so easy for people to deservedly dismiss him.

I think this place would suit you better, "whitey".

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Prove me wrong that they haven't been scrubbed

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/09/27/blasey_ford_yearbooks.html

Has she been nominated for SC?

What relevance would her yearbooks have toward anything? Also it's a f**king yearbook . . . what the f**k relevance have yearbooks toward anything I don't even agree with them being used against Kav!
The reason Kavanaugh's yearbook is being highlighted is to provide supporting evidence to show that he's lying as regards his drinking habits and general character at that time.

There is no earthly reason why Blasey Ford's yearbook (the relevant pages of which are freely available online, by the way) should be raked over, other than to try manufacture a smear campaign against her, which is what one particular far right poster has been trying to do since the story broke, quelle surprise.

Classic victim blaming and vilification.

And that's exactly as Christime Blasey Ford predicted and everybody else with a functioning brain following this story knew would happen.

There are literally no depths to which Rapeublicans will not stoop.

It's time this ultra-misogynist bullshit was called out for what it is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2018, 03:46:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 02:18:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 01:53:14 PM
"Whitey" pushing an Alex Jones conspiracy theory now, I see.

He makes it so easy for people to deservedly dismiss him.

I think this place would suit you better, "whitey".

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Prove me wrong that they haven't been scrubbed

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/09/27/blasey_ford_yearbooks.html

Has she been nominated for SC?

What relevance would her yearbooks have toward anything? Also it's a f**king yearbook . . . what the f**k relevance have yearbooks toward anything I don't even agree with them being used against Kav!
The reason Kavanaugh's yearbook is being highlighted is to provide supporting evidence to show that he's lying as regards his drinking habits and general character at that time.

There is no earthly reason why Blasey Ford's yearbook (the relevant pages of which are freely available online, by the way) should be raked over, other than to try manufacture a smear campaign against her, which is what one particular far right poster has been trying to do since the story broke, quelle surprise.

Classic victim blaming and vilification.

And that's exactly as Christime Blasey Ford predicted and everybody else with a functioning brain following this story knew would happen.

There are literally no depths to which Rapeublicans will not stoop.

It's time this ultra-misogynist bullshit was called out for what it is.

Believe whatever you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 04:33:59 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 04, 2018, 01:38:06 PM
The rabbit hole runs very deep, far beyond the comprehension of the CNN parrots posting here.  An independent investigation is needed, not an FBI one. They will not investigate the CIA and Julie Swetnik connections to the Blasey family. That would open some can of worms.
Julie Swetnick blew up WT7 for the Clintons
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 04:37:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 03:46:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 02:18:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 01:53:14 PM
"Whitey" pushing an Alex Jones conspiracy theory now, I see.

He makes it so easy for people to deservedly dismiss him.

I think this place would suit you better, "whitey".

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Prove me wrong that they haven't been scrubbed

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/09/27/blasey_ford_yearbooks.html

Has she been nominated for SC?

What relevance would her yearbooks have toward anything? Also it's a f**king yearbook . . . what the f**k relevance have yearbooks toward anything I don't even agree with them being used against Kav!
The reason Kavanaugh's yearbook is being highlighted is to provide supporting evidence to show that he's lying as regards his drinking habits and general character at that time.

There is no earthly reason why Blasey Ford's yearbook (the relevant pages of which are freely available online, by the way) should be raked over, other than to try manufacture a smear campaign against her, which is what one particular far right poster has been trying to do since the story broke, quelle surprise.

Classic victim blaming and vilification.

And that's exactly as Christime Blasey Ford predicted and everybody else with a functioning brain following this story knew would happen.

There are literally no depths to which Rapeublicans will not stoop.

It's time this ultra-misogynist bullshit was called out for what it is.

Believe whatever you want
Ironic you say that as that is transparently exactly what you do, continually.

You're beyond parody.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 03:46:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 02:18:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 01:53:14 PM
"Whitey" pushing an Alex Jones conspiracy theory now, I see.

He makes it so easy for people to deservedly dismiss him.

I think this place would suit you better, "whitey".

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Prove me wrong that they haven't been scrubbed

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/09/27/blasey_ford_yearbooks.html

Has she been nominated for SC?

What relevance would her yearbooks have toward anything? Also it's a f**king yearbook . . . what the f**k relevance have yearbooks toward anything I don't even agree with them being used against Kav!
The reason Kavanaugh's yearbook is being highlighted is to provide supporting evidence to show that he's lying as regards his drinking habits and general character at that time.

There is no earthly reason why Blasey Ford's yearbook (the relevant pages of which are freely available online, by the way) should be raked over, other than to try manufacture a smear campaign against her, which is what one particular far right poster has been trying to do since the story broke, quelle surprise.

Classic victim blaming and vilification.

And that's exactly as Christime Blasey Ford predicted and everybody else with a functioning brain following this story knew would happen.

There are literally no depths to which Rapeublicans will not stoop.

It's time this ultra-misogynist bullshit was called out for what it is.

Believe whatever you want
The SC is about facts rather than Belief. Whitehouse asked Kavanaugh if the vomiting was related to drinking and Kavanaugh replied with a litany of his achievements

https://youtu.be/4ccXpDhMmBY
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
The WH is saying no corroboration. GOP is saying investigation was comprehensive.
Collins will lose her seat next time. Short term gain for the GOP for a big loss in terms of women voters. Plus if the Dems win the House they can investigate properly.
What a mess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 09:53:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 04:33:59 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 04, 2018, 01:38:06 PM
The rabbit hole runs very deep, far beyond the comprehension of the CNN parrots posting here.  An independent investigation is needed, not an FBI one. They will not investigate the CIA and Julie Swetnik connections to the Blasey family. That would open some can of worms.
Julie Swetnick blew up WT7 for the Clintons
Christne Blasey Ford was a key player in the cover up of Pizzagate. And Michael Avenatti practices covert CIA-approved mind control doping techniques which make television and laptop screens emit an odourless gas which infiltrates and brainwashes the minds of those watching him into believing batshit crazy liberal conspiracy theories, such as the sinister theory that women and girls should allowed to say no to marauding frat boys who demand sex from them.

This is a theory that threatens to undermine the fundamental natural order of the world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 10:02:04 PM
Lifelong Republican and retired Supreme Court justice John Paul Stevens says Kavanaugh is not fit to serve on the Supreme Court.

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/10/04/kavanaugh-disqualified-himself-retired-supreme-court-justice-stevens-tells-florida-crowd/

I guess he's a self-loathing white male snowflake, or something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 04, 2018, 10:12:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 04:39:52 PM
The SC is about facts rather than Belief.



Hmm......nope....the facts have usually been well established by the time cases get to the Supreme Court.
The SC interprets how they relate to the constitution which is basically just.....belief
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2018, 10:28:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 10:02:04 PM
Lifelong Republican and retired Supreme Court justice John Paul Stevens says Kavanaugh is not fit to serve on the Supreme Court.

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/10/04/kavanaugh-disqualified-himself-retired-supreme-court-justice-stevens-tells-florida-crowd/

I guess he's a self-loathing white male snowflake, or something.

So a guy is accused of attempted rape, aggravated sexual battery, drugging women and facilitating gang rape all without a shred of evidence, and people are upset with how forcefully he defended himself


Keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 10:28:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 10:02:04 PM
Lifelong Republican and retired Supreme Court justice John Paul Stevens says Kavanaugh is not fit to serve on the Supreme Court.

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/10/04/kavanaugh-disqualified-himself-retired-supreme-court-justice-stevens-tells-florida-crowd/

I guess he's a self-loathing white male snowflake, or something.

So a guy is accused of attempted rape, aggravated sexual battery, drugging women and facilitating gang rape all without a shred of evidence, and people are upset with how forcefully he defended himself


Keep it up

I think it's more someone planning on being Supreme Justice blatantly lying and showing his partisanship is the biggest problem!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 04, 2018, 11:16:30 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2018, 10:28:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 04, 2018, 10:02:04 PM
Lifelong Republican and retired Supreme Court justice John Paul Stevens says Kavanaugh is not fit to serve on the Supreme Court.

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/10/04/kavanaugh-disqualified-himself-retired-supreme-court-justice-stevens-tells-florida-crowd/

I guess he's a self-loathing white male snowflake, or something.

So a guy is accused of attempted rape, aggravated sexual battery, drugging women and facilitating gang rape all without a shred of evidence, and people are upset with how forcefully he defended himself


Keep it up

I think it's more someone planning on being Supreme Justice blatantly lying and showing his partisanship is the biggest problem!!

It's not though. Democrats and the social justice warriors didn't want him nominated even before the hearing last week. An uncorrorabeted unverified accusation with zero evidence was enough to ruin his life. The hearing was a distraction.

That's a scary thought.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 05, 2018, 12:40:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
The WH is saying no corroboration. GOP is saying investigation was comprehensive.
Collins will lose her seat next time. Short term gain for the GOP for a big loss in terms of women voters. Plus if the Dems win the House they can investigate properly.
What a mess.

The Dems will bend over and take it, as always.

You think Trump or McConnell would have stood for what happened with Garland? There would have been civil war threatened by them and Fox News and the rest of the right wing machine. Despite whitey's ludicrous whining about the play-nice GOP and the filthy, nasty Democrats, they're pretty toothless compared to the organization, ruthlessness and sheer brazenness of the right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2018, 02:31:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2018, 12:40:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
The WH is saying no corroboration. GOP is saying investigation was comprehensive.
Collins will lose her seat next time. Short term gain for the GOP for a big loss in terms of women voters. Plus if the Dems win the House they can investigate properly.
What a mess.

The Dems will bend over and take it, as always.

You think Trump or McConnell would have stood for what happened with Garland? There would have been civil war threatened by them and Fox News and the rest of the right wing machine. Despite whitey's ludicrous whining about the play-nice GOP and the filthy, nasty Democrats, they're pretty toothless compared to the organization, ruthlessness and sheer brazenness of the right.

As much as I hate Trump you have to admire him for the sheer neck

A RINO like W, Romney or McCain would have just pulled the nomination

Trump is like no...... fvck it.......we'll fight it out.....and he may very well prevail, and flip a couple of Senate seats in the process.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 03:10:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 04:33:59 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 04, 2018, 01:38:06 PM
The rabbit hole runs very deep, far beyond the comprehension of the CNN parrots posting here.  An independent investigation is needed, not an FBI one. They will not investigate the CIA and Julie Swetnik connections to the Blasey family. That would open some can of worms.
Julie Swetnick blew up WT7 for the Clintons
that kind of a zealot would blow whatever the clintons told her too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 05:05:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2018, 12:40:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
The WH is saying no corroboration. GOP is saying investigation was comprehensive.
Collins will lose her seat next time. Short term gain for the GOP for a big loss in terms of women voters. Plus if the Dems win the House they can investigate properly.
What a mess.

The Dems will bend over and take it, as always.

You think Trump or McConnell would have stood for what happened with Garland? There would have been civil war threatened by them and Fox News and the rest of the right wing machine. Despite whitey's ludicrous whining about the play-nice GOP and the filthy, nasty Democrats, they're pretty toothless compared to the organization, ruthlessness and sheer brazenness of the right.

The Dems didn't control the House, Senate and Presidency when they nominated Garland. That is key.
The GOP picked a crap judge thinking they could get a quick nomination.

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/571936/
"We are in a political environment in which there are no rules, no norms anymore to violate. There is only power, and the individual judgments of individual senators—facing whatever political pressures they face, calculating political gain however they do it, and consulting their consciences to the extent they have them."

This may be the high point of GOP power. They couldn't get this guy through without betraying women. They judged that firing up the base was worth it. Let's see.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 05:19:12 AM
Chutzpah

https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-am-an-independent-impartial-judge-1538695822
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on October 05, 2018, 09:54:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Jesus if you're going to paraphrase Stewart lee at least give him credit for it instead of bizzarely plagiarising him into a discussion about Jeff Flake and Blasey Ford. Where'd ya steal the rest of your post from?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 10:15:52 AM
Trump is a misogynist. So is Kavanaugh.
But it isn't a wise political strategy. Unlike Iranians or people in "shithole countries", American women can vote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GccgGB5C2Zs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 11:20:13 AM
This is quite interesting :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYX2BCn4ioU

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.

Believing in law and order/innocent until proven guilty = "far right fruitcake"?

I know none of us here affect American elections but if conversations like this are occurring across the states then we are in for two terms of Trump. Democrats are isolating themselves from the middle/swing voter by indulging these people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 01:43:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.

Believing in law and order/innocent until proven guilty = "far right fruitcake"?

I know none of us here affect American elections but if conversations like this are occurring across the states then we are in for two terms of Trump. Democrats are isolating themselves from the middle/swing voter by indulging these people.

Can you tell me whether you believe John Paul Stevens believes in law and order or not?

Or whether he believes in the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

I won't bother asking whether you think Donald Trump belives in the principle of innocent until proven guilty, because the answer to that is patently obvious.

Are you able to debate using anything other than straw men?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 01:45:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.

Believing in law and order/innocent until proven guilty = "far right fruitcake"?

I know none of us here affect American elections but if conversations like this are occurring across the states then we are in for two terms of Trump. Democrats are isolating themselves from the middle/swing voter by indulging these people.
Does Law and order include presidential taunts? The GOP is no longer a Conservative party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: pbat on October 05, 2018, 01:59:15 PM
I think the clip of Trump getting onto the plane with loo roll stuck to his shoe  says a lot about how even his staff and secret service view him that not one of them told him.

It may seem trival but you can't imagine that ever happening to Obama, May, Merkel. Jesus am at Gatwick now and if I seen it happen someone I would point it out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 02:11:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 01:45:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.

Believing in law and order/innocent until proven guilty = "far right fruitcake"?

I know none of us here affect American elections but if conversations like this are occurring across the states then we are in for two terms of Trump. Democrats are isolating themselves from the middle/swing voter by indulging these people.
Does Law and order include presidential taunts? The GOP is no longer a Conservative party.

He shouldn't have done that. It was wrong. But I look at policy more than rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on October 05, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.

Believing in law and order/innocent until proven guilty = "far right fruitcake"?

I know none of us here affect American elections but if conversations like this are occurring across the states then we are in for two terms of Trump. Democrats are isolating themselves from the middle/swing voter by indulging these people.


I live in the US, so I will give you my two cents.

you are so correct on last point.

What do dems stand for, they don't even know. they don't have a leg to stand on regarding the economy.

Reality is that the economy is booming, the unemployment rate fell to 3.7% this morning, lowest since 1969.
Corporate tax cuts and less regulation across all industries are helping capital spending= more jobs being created by small to mid sized companies=higher salaries, I sincerely doubt that Amazon upped their minimum wage to $15 this week just because they wanted to be nice. The most likely did it to hold on to workers. That is a huge positive, and from what you read salary increases are occurring industry wide, which is great. wages and benefits for lower paid workers were too low to sustain a decent living.

In Short;
Dem strategy appears to be pro worker but anti-business. Reality it does not work.
Republician strategy is to cut corporate and individual taxes, reduce regulations, encourage companies to set up shop here hire more people, and the increased tax receipts from higher GDP will hopefully pay for additional services.

At the moment here, despite all the negative sh*t you are bombarded with on the TV,  consumer confidence is very high, I travel a good bit for work and it genuinely seems to be not just in the North East.

Finally, Can Trump take all the credit, no. Do I agree with everything he does, absolutely not, However he has a business background and he has listened (sometimes) to some bright people and two years into his presidency his pro business policies are now paying dividends for workers.

As for the Dems, (my wife is a registered one), and she has even admitted that the current strategy of trying to stop Kavanaugh is all about getting their base motivated ahead of the mid-term elections. As for their economic strategy, non existent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 05, 2018, 02:54:24 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 05, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.

Believing in law and order/innocent until proven guilty = "far right fruitcake"?

I know none of us here affect American elections but if conversations like this are occurring across the states then we are in for two terms of Trump. Democrats are isolating themselves from the middle/swing voter by indulging these people.


I live in the US, so I will give you my two cents.

you are so correct on last point.

What do dems stand for, they don't even know. they don't have a leg to stand on regarding the economy.

Reality is that the economy is booming, the unemployment rate fell to 3.7% this morning, lowest since 1969.
Corporate tax cuts and less regulation across all industries are helping capital spending= more jobs being created by small to mid sized companies=higher salaries, I sincerely doubt that Amazon upped their minimum wage to $15 this week just because they wanted to be nice. The most likely did it to hold on to workers. That is a huge positive, and from what you read salary increases are occurring industry wide, which is great. wages and benefits for lower paid workers were too low to sustain a decent living.

In Short;
Dem strategy appears to be pro worker but anti-business. Reality it does not work.
Republician strategy is to cut corporate and individual taxes, reduce regulations, encourage companies to set up shop here hire more people, and the increased tax receipts from higher GDP will hopefully pay for additional services.

At the moment here, despite all the negative sh*t you are bombarded with on the TV,  consumer confidence is very high, I travel a good bit for work and it genuinely seems to be not just in the North East.

Finally, Can Trump take all the credit, no. Do I agree with everything he does, absolutely not, However he has a business background and he has listened (sometimes) to some bright people and two years into his presidency his pro business policies are now paying dividends for workers.

As for the Dems, (my wife is a registered one), and she has even admitted that the current strategy of trying to stop Kavanaugh is all about getting their base motivated ahead of the mid-term elections. As for their economic strategy, non existent.

Seriously??

I keep asking my GOP acquaintances who are forever boasting about the employment rate or using it to justify their support of Trump to point out the inflection point in the unemployment trends, Still waiting...

(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2008_2018_all_period_M09_data.gif)

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000)

As for what the Dems stand for? (I'm a little rushed, but can expand later).

Opposition to the extremism of Trump and his minions is justification alone, whether its on his callous treatment of and rhetoric on immigrants or muslims, his appalling record on the environment, his support of corporatism over the rights of the individual at every turn, LGBT stuff and so on and on. That's before you even get into his personal conduct and corruption.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:00:06 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 05, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.

Believing in law and order/innocent until proven guilty = "far right fruitcake"?

I know none of us here affect American elections but if conversations like this are occurring across the states then we are in for two terms of Trump. Democrats are isolating themselves from the middle/swing voter by indulging these people.


I live in the US, so I will give you my two cents.

you are so correct on last point.

What do dems stand for, they don't even know. they don't have a leg to stand on regarding the economy.

Reality is that the economy is booming, the unemployment rate fell to 3.7% this morning, lowest since 1969.
Corporate tax cuts and less regulation across all industries are helping capital spending= more jobs being created by small to mid sized companies=higher salaries, I sincerely doubt that Amazon upped their minimum wage to $15 this week just because they wanted to be nice. The most likely did it to hold on to workers. That is a huge positive, and from what you read salary increases are occurring industry wide, which is great. wages and benefits for lower paid workers were too low to sustain a decent living.

In Short;
Dem strategy appears to be pro worker but anti-business. Reality it does not work.
Republician strategy is to cut corporate and individual taxes, reduce regulations, encourage companies to set up shop here hire more people, and the increased tax receipts from higher GDP will hopefully pay for additional services.

At the moment here, despite all the negative sh*t you are bombarded with on the TV,  consumer confidence is very high, I travel a good bit for work and it genuinely seems to be not just in the North East.

Finally, Can Trump take all the credit, no. Do I agree with everything he does, absolutely not, However he has a business background and he has listened (sometimes) to some bright people and two years into his presidency his pro business policies are now paying dividends for workers.

As for the Dems, (my wife is a registered one), and she has even admitted that the current strategy of trying to stop Kavanaugh is all about getting their base motivated ahead of the mid-term elections. As for their economic strategy, non existent.
The deficit is now $1 tn
The GOP want to slash Medicare and Medicaid spending to cover the tax cuts.
Real unemployment is a good bit higher than 3.7% when you include all the people who dropped out of the job market
There's going to be another crash because of all the mispriced debt. Every minute $11 million in debt is pumped into the global economy by the ultra rich. It pumps up asset prices in the world's biggest ever asset bubble. Asset bubbles are good for consumer confidence but they all burst.
As Albert Edwards says the Fed tightens until something breaks. In 2008 it was Lehman Brothers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Guardian


"Judiciary committee chairman Chuck Grassley said the report contained "nothing that we didn't already know".


The investigation worked beautifully
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:12:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Guardian


"Judiciary committee chairman Chuck Grassley said the report contained "nothing that we didn't already know".


The investigation worked beautifully

Apart from the fact that (seemingly) Fords attorneys contacted potential witnesses and pressured them to change/alter their testimony
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:23:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:12:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Guardian


"Judiciary committee chairman Chuck Grassley said the report contained "nothing that we didn't already know".


The investigation worked beautifully

Apart from the fact that (seemingly) Fords attorneys contacted potential witnesses and pressured them to change/alter their testimony
The GOP refused to release reams of docs re Kavanaugh who lied under oath

Michael Gerson

@MJGerson

"The GOP is being rallied to an important public purpose by a total creep. The president has written misogyny into the Republican platform. It is impossible to take his side without the slime rubbing off."

You would wonder what Lincoln would say about the state of the party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:40:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:23:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:12:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Guardian


"Judiciary committee chairman Chuck Grassley said the report contained "nothing that we didn't already know".


The investigation worked beautifully

Apart from the fact that (seemingly) Fords attorneys contacted potential witnesses and pressured them to change/alter their testimony
The GOP refused to release reams of docs re Kavanaugh who lied under oath

Michael Gerson

@MJGerson

"The GOP is being rallied to an important public purpose by a total creep. The president has written misogyny into the Republican platform. It is impossible to take his side without the slime rubbing off."

You would wonder what Lincoln would say about the state of the party.

They had more documentation than the prior 5 justices combined

They had over 300 rulings he had written

They had a 12 year track record on the 2nd highest court in the land

Do you want his drawings from junior infants too?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 05, 2018, 03:55:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:40:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:23:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:12:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Guardian


"Judiciary committee chairman Chuck Grassley said the report contained "nothing that we didn't already know".


The investigation worked beautifully

Apart from the fact that (seemingly) Fords attorneys contacted potential witnesses and pressured them to change/alter their testimony
The GOP refused to release reams of docs re Kavanaugh who lied under oath

Michael Gerson

@MJGerson

"The GOP is being rallied to an important public purpose by a total creep. The president has written misogyny into the Republican platform. It is impossible to take his side without the slime rubbing off."

You would wonder what Lincoln would say about the state of the party.

They had more documentation than the prior 5 justices combined

They had over 300 rulings he had written

They had a 12 year track record on the 2nd highest court in the land

Do you want his drawings from junior infants too?

Let's hope you and your fellow travelers are similarly cavalier when some Democratic administration veteran-turned judge is up for consideration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:40:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:23:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:12:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Guardian


"Judiciary committee chairman Chuck Grassley said the report contained "nothing that we didn't already know".


The investigation worked beautifully

Apart from the fact that (seemingly) Fords attorneys contacted potential witnesses and pressured them to change/alter their testimony
The GOP refused to release reams of docs re Kavanaugh who lied under oath

Michael Gerson

@MJGerson

"The GOP is being rallied to an important public purpose by a total creep. The president has written misogyny into the Republican platform. It is impossible to take his side without the slime rubbing off."

You would wonder what Lincoln would say about the state of the party.

They had more documentation than the prior 5 justices combined

They had over 300 rulings he had written

They had a 12 year track record on the 2nd highest court in the land

Do you want his drawings from junior infants too?
Do you believe the President is above the law, Whitey?
Do you believe environmental protection is unconstitutional?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 05, 2018, 04:12:23 PM
Carrying water for a raging drunk - never change whitey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on October 05, 2018, 04:15:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Guardian


"Judiciary committee chairman Chuck Grassley said the report contained "nothing that we didn't already know".


The investigation worked beautifully

But that was always going to be the case. On CNN they have an ex FBI law enforcement contributor, and he said that without a date / time / location info, it was impossible for law enforcement to collaborate Prof Fords allegation.

And her friend at the party state that she didn't know of anything happening

So it was always going to be difficult to collaborate her story.

For me, this is why the Dems needed to provide the letter during the screening process in June, and in doing so, possibly give the  FBI extra time to find collaborating evidence.

As a dem voter, I'm disappointed at how this played out. As I've said before, this sham doesn't help Prof Ford, and tarnishes the judges reputation without giving him the change to clear his name (if innocent).

If also provides the GOP a rallying call for the mid terms and in 2 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 05, 2018, 04:30:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 05, 2018, 04:12:23 PM
Carrying water for a (seemingly) raging drunk - never change whitey

Fixed that for you Gabe!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:00:06 PM

Real unemployment is a good bit higher than 3.7% when you include all the people who dropped out of the job market

Up to March 2017 Trump and his sycophants were claiming there were 95 million unemployed in the US.

You don't hear them say this anymore. And it isn't because these people have suddenly started working, they haven't.

Funny that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 05, 2018, 04:15:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Guardian


"Judiciary committee chairman Chuck Grassley said the report contained "nothing that we didn't already know".


The investigation worked beautifully

But that was always going to be the case. On CNN they have an ex FBI law enforcement contributor, and he said that without a date / time / location info, it was impossible for law enforcement to collaborate Prof Fords allegation.

And her friend at the party state that she didn't know of anything happening

So it was always going to be difficult to collaborate her story.

For me, this is why the Dems needed to provide the letter during the screening process in June, and in doing so, possibly give the  FBI extra time to find collaborating evidence.

As a dem voter, I'm disappointed at how this played out. As I've said before, this sham doesn't help Prof Ford, and tarnishes the judges reputation without giving him the change to clear his name (if innocent).

If also provides the GOP a rallying call for the mid terms and in 2 years.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 03:00:06 PM

Real unemployment is a good bit higher than 3.7% when you include all the people who dropped out of the job market

Up to March 2017 Trump and his sycophants were claiming there were 95 million unemployed in the US.

You don't hear them say this anymore. And it isn't because these people have suddenly started working, they haven't.

Funny that.
http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I see Chuck Grassley is now engaging in a well worn anti-semitic dog whistle by claiming that protestors against Bart O'Kavanaugh's nomination are funded by George Soros.

There literally is no bottom to the Republican cesspit.

And never mind that Republicans have actually paid people to protest against democracy.

https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002245-fullscreen.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 05, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I see Chuck Grassley is now engaging in a well worn anti-semitic dog whistle by claiming that protestors against Bart O'Kavanaugh's nomination are funded by George Soros.

There literally is no bottom to the Republican cesspit.

And never mind that Republicans have actually paid people to protest against democracy.

https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002245-fullscreen.html

Trump is promoting that one too.

Plus he was mocking Al Franken for doing the decent thing and resigning his Senate seat over sexual harrassment allegations.

But hey, he's a fighter... or something...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 06:11:18 PM
Presumably all these people are "against law and order", or something.

Or maybe it's the Republicans, given that they've conducted a sham hearing and a sham "investigation".

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/1047943205860331520

Now against Kavanaugh confirmation:

* Retired SCOTUS Justice John Paul Stephens, a lifelong Republican
* The American Bar Association
* Yale Law School, who trained him
* National Council of Churches, which represents 100,000 congregations

'Unfathomable': More than 2,400 law professors sign letter opposing Kavanaugh's confirmation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2018/10/04/unprecedented-unfathomable-more-than-law-professors-sign-letter-after-kavanaugh-hearing/?utm_term=.bfa8c5ca3437


The Editors: It is time for the Kavanaugh nomination to be withdrawn

https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2018/09/27/editors-it-time-kavanaugh-nomination-be-withdrawn

40 Harvard Law Profs Sign NYT Op-Ed Demanding Senate Reject Kavanaugh

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/10/4/kavanaugh-nyt-oped/


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I see Chuck Grassley is now engaging in a well worn anti-semitic dog whistle by claiming that protestors against Bart O'Kavanaugh's nomination are funded by George Soros.

There literally is no bottom to the Republican cesspit.

And never mind that Republicans have actually paid people to protest against democracy.

https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002245-fullscreen.html

Trump is promoting that one too.

Plus he was mocking Al Franken for doing the decent thing and resigning his Senate seat over sexual harrassment allegations.

But hey, he's a fighter... or something...
I don't recall any Republicans on this forum complaining that Franken was "innocent until proven guilty".

That's because sexual harrassment, along with rape and sexual assault, are now partisan issues as far as Rapeublicans are concerned.

But hey, Democrats are "isolating themselves" by demanding higher moral standards of public representatives.

It makes you think about what sort of people Republicans are trying to appeal to, actually it doesn't at all - we already know exactly what type of people they're trying to appeal to.

Some of them even post here.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I see Chuck Grassley is now engaging in a well worn anti-semitic dog whistle by claiming that protestors against Bart O'Kavanaugh's nomination are funded by George Soros.

There literally is no bottom to the Republican cesspit.

And never mind that Republicans have actually paid people to protest against democracy.

https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002245-fullscreen.html

Trump is promoting that one too.

Plus he was mocking Al Franken for doing the decent thing and resigning his Senate seat over sexual harrassment allegations.

But hey, he's a fighter... or something...
I don't recall any Republicans on this forum complaining that Franken was "innocent until proven guilty".

That's because sexual harrassment, along with rape and sexual assault, are now partisan issues as far as Rapeublicans are concerned.

But hey, Democrats are "isolating themselves" by demanding higher moral standards of public representatives.

It makes you think about what sort of people Republicans are trying to appeal to, actually it doesn't at all - we already know exactly what type of people they're trying to appeal to.

Some of them even post here.
al Franken was filmed feeling up some girl who was asleep then he was defended by Katz ms fords attorney who also defended Bill Clinton and said Paula jones was a lying tr**p , you couldn't make it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
Collins and Flake and Manchin to vote yes so Kav gets in.
Manchin is a red State Democrat.

But I don't think this is the end of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 09:14:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I see Chuck Grassley is now engaging in a well worn anti-semitic dog whistle by claiming that protestors against Bart O'Kavanaugh's nomination are funded by George Soros.

There literally is no bottom to the Republican cesspit.

And never mind that Republicans have actually paid people to protest against democracy.

https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002245-fullscreen.html

Trump is promoting that one too.

Plus he was mocking Al Franken for doing the decent thing and resigning his Senate seat over sexual harrassment allegations.

But hey, he's a fighter... or something...
I don't recall any Republicans on this forum complaining that Franken was "innocent until proven guilty".

That's because sexual harrassment, along with rape and sexual assault, are now partisan issues as far as Rapeublicans are concerned.

But hey, Democrats are "isolating themselves" by demanding higher moral standards of public representatives.

It makes you think about what sort of people Republicans are trying to appeal to, actually it doesn't at all - we already know exactly what type of people they're trying to appeal to.

Some of them even post here.
al Franken was filmed feeling up some girl who was asleep then he was defended by Katz ms fords attorney who also defended Bill Clinton and said Paula jones was a lying tr**p , you couldn't make it up
Al Franken correctly resigned.

Were you calling for the "innocent until proven guilty" standard to be upheld in his case?

Any chance of an answer?

Ironic that you say "you couldn't make it up", since making up stuff is the one thing Republicans are very good at doing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 05, 2018, 09:23:46 PM
Blue Wave guaranteed with Kav in now!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 09:14:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I see Chuck Grassley is now engaging in a well worn anti-semitic dog whistle by claiming that protestors against Bart O'Kavanaugh's nomination are funded by George Soros.

There literally is no bottom to the Republican cesspit.

And never mind that Republicans have actually paid people to protest against democracy.

https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002245-fullscreen.html

Trump is promoting that one too.

Plus he was mocking Al Franken for doing the decent thing and resigning his Senate seat over sexual harrassment allegations.

But hey, he's a fighter... or something...
I don't recall any Republicans on this forum complaining that Franken was "innocent until proven guilty".

That's because sexual harrassment, along with rape and sexual assault, are now partisan issues as far as Rapeublicans are concerned.

But hey, Democrats are "isolating themselves" by demanding higher moral standards of public representatives.

It makes you think about what sort of people Republicans are trying to appeal to, actually it doesn't at all - we already know exactly what type of people they're trying to appeal to.

Some of them even post here.
al Franken was filmed feeling up some girl who was asleep then he was defended by Katz ms fords attorney who also defended Bill Clinton and said Paula jones was a lying tr**p , you couldn't make it up
Al Franken correctly resigned.

Were you calling for the "innocent until proven guilty" standard to be upheld in his case?

Any chance of an answer?

Ironic that you say "you couldn't make it up", since making up stuff is the one thing Republicans are very good at doing.
it was on filmed don't remember seeing anything about Brett on tape
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2018, 09:35:18 PM
This is more important than whatever the latest wage rises are. The GOP is a tool of the plutocrats. So is the Federalist Society. Kavanaugh will work for them. This is how Rome collapsed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 09:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 09:14:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I see Chuck Grassley is now engaging in a well worn anti-semitic dog whistle by claiming that protestors against Bart O'Kavanaugh's nomination are funded by George Soros.

There literally is no bottom to the Republican cesspit.

And never mind that Republicans have actually paid people to protest against democracy.

https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002245-fullscreen.html

Trump is promoting that one too.

Plus he was mocking Al Franken for doing the decent thing and resigning his Senate seat over sexual harrassment allegations.

But hey, he's a fighter... or something...
I don't recall any Republicans on this forum complaining that Franken was "innocent until proven guilty".

That's because sexual harrassment, along with rape and sexual assault, are now partisan issues as far as Rapeublicans are concerned.

But hey, Democrats are "isolating themselves" by demanding higher moral standards of public representatives.

It makes you think about what sort of people Republicans are trying to appeal to, actually it doesn't at all - we already know exactly what type of people they're trying to appeal to.

Some of them even post here.
al Franken was filmed feeling up some girl who was asleep then he was defended by Katz ms fords attorney who also defended Bill Clinton and said Paula jones was a lying tr**p , you couldn't make it up
Al Franken correctly resigned.

Were you calling for the "innocent until proven guilty" standard to be upheld in his case?

Any chance of an answer?

Ironic that you say "you couldn't make it up", since making up stuff is the one thing Republicans are very good at doing.
it was on filmed don't remember seeing anything about Brett on tape
Could you answer the question, please?

Were you calling for Al Franken to be deemed innocent until proven guilty?

What about Harvey Weinstein?

Were you calling for him to be deemed innocent until proven guilty?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 10:51:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 05, 2018, 09:23:46 PM
Blue Wave guaranteed with Kav in now!!

If they couldn't come out in 2016 they won't come out now. Expect it to be roughly as you were after November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 11:16:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 09:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 09:14:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I see Chuck Grassley is now engaging in a well worn anti-semitic dog whistle by claiming that protestors against Bart O'Kavanaugh's nomination are funded by George Soros.

There literally is no bottom to the Republican cesspit.

And never mind that Republicans have actually paid people to protest against democracy.

https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002245-fullscreen.html

Trump is promoting that one too.

Plus he was mocking Al Franken for doing the decent thing and resigning his Senate seat over sexual harrassment allegations.

But hey, he's a fighter... or something...
I don't recall any Republicans on this forum complaining that Franken was "innocent until proven guilty".

That's because sexual harrassment, along with rape and sexual assault, are now partisan issues as far as Rapeublicans are concerned.

But hey, Democrats are "isolating themselves" by demanding higher moral standards of public representatives.

It makes you think about what sort of people Republicans are trying to appeal to, actually it doesn't at all - we already know exactly what type of people they're trying to appeal to.

Some of them even post here.
al Franken was filmed feeling up some girl who was asleep then he was defended by Katz ms fords attorney who also defended Bill Clinton and said Paula jones was a lying tr**p , you couldn't make it up
Al Franken correctly resigned.

Were you calling for the "innocent until proven guilty" standard to be upheld in his case?

Any chance of an answer?

Ironic that you say "you couldn't make it up", since making up stuff is the one thing Republicans are very good at doing.
it was on filmed don't remember seeing anything about Brett on tape
Could you answer the question, please?

Were you calling for Al Franken to be deemed innocent until proven guilty?

What about Harvey Weinstein?

Were you calling for him to be deemed innocent until proven guilty?
all cases are different and need to be viewed as such with the presumption of innocence unless it's on camera like Al Franken
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 11:21:03 PM
Amazing stuff. Susan Collins called for Al Franken to resign.

I guess it's totally different because Bart O'Kavanagh is a Republican nominee.

The transparent hypocrisy is astounding.

https://bangordailynews.com/2017/12/06/politics/collins-and-king-join-chorus-calling-for-al-frankens-resignation/

QuoteSen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, told CNN that "it would be best for the Senate" if Franken "followed the advice of his Democratic colleagues

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/senators-al-franken-resignation/index.html

QuoteSome comments were elaborate, lengthy and loaded with a moral message. Others, like that of Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri, were straight to the point.
"Al Franken should resign," she simply tweeted.
Within the next 90 minutes, 16 Democrats -- 10 of them women -- and one Republican senator -- Susan Collins of Maine -- had publicly urged their colleague to vacate his seat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 11:28:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 11:16:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 09:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 09:14:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I see Chuck Grassley is now engaging in a well worn anti-semitic dog whistle by claiming that protestors against Bart O'Kavanaugh's nomination are funded by George Soros.

There literally is no bottom to the Republican cesspit.

And never mind that Republicans have actually paid people to protest against democracy.

https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002245-fullscreen.html

Trump is promoting that one too.

Plus he was mocking Al Franken for doing the decent thing and resigning his Senate seat over sexual harrassment allegations.

But hey, he's a fighter... or something...
I don't recall any Republicans on this forum complaining that Franken was "innocent until proven guilty".

That's because sexual harrassment, along with rape and sexual assault, are now partisan issues as far as Rapeublicans are concerned.

But hey, Democrats are "isolating themselves" by demanding higher moral standards of public representatives.

It makes you think about what sort of people Republicans are trying to appeal to, actually it doesn't at all - we already know exactly what type of people they're trying to appeal to.

Some of them even post here.
al Franken was filmed feeling up some girl who was asleep then he was defended by Katz ms fords attorney who also defended Bill Clinton and said Paula jones was a lying tr**p , you couldn't make it up
Al Franken correctly resigned.

Were you calling for the "innocent until proven guilty" standard to be upheld in his case?

Any chance of an answer?

Ironic that you say "you couldn't make it up", since making up stuff is the one thing Republicans are very good at doing.
it was on filmed don't remember seeing anything about Brett on tape
Could you answer the question, please?

Were you calling for Al Franken to be deemed innocent until proven guilty?

What about Harvey Weinstein?

Were you calling for him to be deemed innocent until proven guilty?
all cases are different and need to be viewed as such with the presumption of innocence unless it's on camera like Al Franken
Yeah, mate, I've already got your point. If it's a Democrat they should resign, if it's a Republican, ah, shure 'tis grand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 11:45:55 PM
The comments underneath this tweet from Peterson's alt-right cultist followers are very funny. They feel betrayed.  ;D

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1048320826376740865

QuoteIf confirmed Kavanaugh should step down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2018, 12:10:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 11:21:03 PM
Amazing stuff. Susan Collins called for Al Franken to resign.

I guess it's totally different because Bart O'Kavanagh is a Republican nominee.

The transparent hypocrisy is astounding.

https://bangordailynews.com/2017/12/06/politics/collins-and-king-join-chorus-calling-for-al-frankens-resignation/

QuoteSen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, told CNN that "it would be best for the Senate" if Franken "followed the advice of his Democratic colleagues

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/senators-al-franken-resignation/index.html

QuoteSome comments were elaborate, lengthy and loaded with a moral message. Others, like that of Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri, were straight to the point.
"Al Franken should resign," she simply tweeted.
Within the next 90 minutes, 16 Democrats -- 10 of them women -- and one Republican senator -- Susan Collins of Maine -- had publicly urged their colleague to vacate his seat.

Maybe it's because there wasn't a single solitary shred of evidence in the Kavanaugh situation, but feel free to believe whatever you want. Interesting that the therapists notes have never been released......supposedly she said she was a LATE teen and was attacked by 4 people instead of 2
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2018, 12:35:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2018, 12:10:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 11:21:03 PM
Amazing stuff. Susan Collins called for Al Franken to resign.

I guess it's totally different because Bart O'Kavanagh is a Republican nominee.

The transparent hypocrisy is astounding.

https://bangordailynews.com/2017/12/06/politics/collins-and-king-join-chorus-calling-for-al-frankens-resignation/

QuoteSen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, told CNN that "it would be best for the Senate" if Franken "followed the advice of his Democratic colleagues

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/senators-al-franken-resignation/index.html

QuoteSome comments were elaborate, lengthy and loaded with a moral message. Others, like that of Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri, were straight to the point.
"Al Franken should resign," she simply tweeted.
Within the next 90 minutes, 16 Democrats -- 10 of them women -- and one Republican senator -- Susan Collins of Maine -- had publicly urged their colleague to vacate his seat.

Maybe it's because there wasn't a single solitary shred of evidence in the Kavanaugh situation, but feel free to believe whatever you want. Interesting that the therapists notes have never been released......supposedly she said she was a LATE teen and was attacked by 4 people instead of 2
Three accusers, two of them not even interviewed, at least a score of corroborating witnesses not interviewed and others with information stonewalled on the instruction of Trump.

But none of that is "evidence", apparently.

A sham investigation designed to get a sham result that the sham president who designed it wanted.

Which is clear evidence of a brazen cover up.

Which, predictably, you approve of. It's by Republicans, after all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 06, 2018, 12:47:58 AM
In an interview to be a Supreme Court justice, he lied . . . . under OATH.  That's right, a judge! That should have disqualified him on the spot.

It was not a trial, just an interview, so the standard was not "beyond a reasonable doubt," but was, as Collins pointed out, simply whom do you believe more?  With a legion of other viable candidates, he should simply have been turned down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2018, 01:15:27 AM
One could come to a very logical conclusion about whether whitey believes Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Jimmy Savile or Brendan Smyth were innocent or guilty.

Because according to him a victim reporting a rape or an attempted rape after the fact does not count as evidence.

And therefore, according to whitey's logic, these men are totally innocent.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)
what is he doing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2018, 01:56:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2018, 01:15:27 AM
One could come to a very logical conclusion about whether whitey believes Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Jimmy Savile or Brendan Smyth were innocent or guilty.

Because according to him a victim reporting a rape or an attempted rape after the fact does not count as evidence.

And therefore, according to whitey's logic, these men are totally innocent.

Her story just doesn't add up. 

Her best friend who was supposedly there at the party said she didn't even know Brett Kavanaugh and has no recollection of such a gathering even taking place. (and now it looks like she was pressurized by Fords team to alter her original sworn testimony)

The 2 or 3 other people who were supposedly present haven't a fvckin clue what she's talking about either

The 2 pillars of her story, the therapists report fand the polygraph haven't been handed over to either the FBI or the Senate judiciary committee-WHY?

It's a free country, believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 06, 2018, 04:59:37 AM
Quote from: joemamas on October 05, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.

Believing in law and order/innocent until proven guilty = "far right fruitcake"?

I know none of us here affect American elections but if conversations like this are occurring across the states then we are in for two terms of Trump. Democrats are isolating themselves from the middle/swing voter by indulging these people.


I live in the US, so I will give you my two cents.

you are so correct on last point.

What do dems stand for, they don't even know. they don't have a leg to stand on regarding the economy.

Reality is that the economy is booming, the unemployment rate fell to 3.7% this morning, lowest since 1969.
Corporate tax cuts and less regulation across all industries are helping capital spending= more jobs being created by small to mid sized companies=higher salaries, I sincerely doubt that Amazon upped their minimum wage to $15 this week just because they wanted to be nice. The most likely did it to hold on to workers. That is a huge positive, and from what you read salary increases are occurring industry wide, which is great. wages and benefits for lower paid workers were too low to sustain a decent living.

In Short;
Dem strategy appears to be pro worker but anti-business. Reality it does not work.
Republician strategy is to cut corporate and individual taxes, reduce regulations, encourage companies to set up shop here hire more people, and the increased tax receipts from higher GDP will hopefully pay for additional services.

At the moment here, despite all the negative sh*t you are bombarded with on the TV,  consumer confidence is very high, I travel a good bit for work and it genuinely seems to be not just in the North East.

Finally, Can Trump take all the credit, no. Do I agree with everything he does, absolutely not, However he has a business background and he has listened (sometimes) to some bright people and two years into his presidency his pro business policies are now paying dividends for workers.

As for the Dems, (my wife is a registered one), and she has even admitted that the current strategy of trying to stop Kavanaugh is all about getting their base motivated ahead of the mid-term elections. As for their economic strategy, non existent.

Ah now, bit of reading wouldn't go amiss.

Dem strategy is anti business, and Trump has a business background. I would fact check those two for a start.

Amazon's minimum wage is a factor of many things. Hold on to workers? Try share holder pressure and recruitment issues with the threat of significant legal action globally.

You may want to take a look at basic economic theory, before you start claiming a political party doesn't have a leg to stand in. The is economy is unsurprisingly remarakbly complicated, but never in history has a tax cut for the richest when there is a significant wage gap created anything other a temporary bump in equity prices, no trickle down, no investment, no repatriation of profits.

Sadly however there is no upside to mainstream politicians or the rich  to educating poor people in basic economic theory, And it's even better when you don't understand what liberal or socialist means and you turn them into a slur...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 06, 2018, 06:01:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)
what is he doing?

Was he touching her GMAC or just faking it. I thought Democrats were "fakers"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 06, 2018, 06:16:03 AM
Alexander Hamilton

https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-12-02-0184-0002

The truth unquestionably is, that the only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people, and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion. Tired at length of anarchy, or want of government, they may take shelter in the arms of monarchy for repose and security.
Those then, who resist a confirmation of public order, are the true Artificers of monarchy—not that this is the intention of the generality of them. Yet it would not be difficult to lay the finger upon some of their party who may justly be suspected. When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the advantage of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanour—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may "ride the storm and direct the whirlwind."
It has aptly been observed that Cato was the Tory-Cæsar the whig of his day. The former frequently resisted—the latter always flattered the follies of the people. Yet the former perished with the Republic the latter destroyed it.
No popular Government was ever without its Catalines & its Cæsars. These are its true enemies."

The institutions of the US depend on the integrity of the people who run them. Their credibility cannot be guaranteed.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 06, 2018, 06:38:02 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 06, 2018, 04:59:37 AM
Quote from: joemamas on October 05, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
More bullshit waffle from the forum's chief Trump sycophant.

A cheerleader with a short skirt and pom poms without a trace of balls to admit what they are.

Like Richard Hammond and Jeff Flake, you're trapped between two different forms of cowardice.

Why did Hillary lose?

For exhibit A please see above
You and all the other far right fruitcakes need to abandon your irrational obsession with the Clintons. It's really unhealthy. Sort of Gemma O'Doherty-esque.

Believing in law and order/innocent until proven guilty = "far right fruitcake"?

I know none of us here affect American elections but if conversations like this are occurring across the states then we are in for two terms of Trump. Democrats are isolating themselves from the middle/swing voter by indulging these people.


I live in the US, so I will give you my two cents.

you are so correct on last point.

What do dems stand for, they don't even know. they don't have a leg to stand on regarding the economy.

Reality is that the economy is booming, the unemployment rate fell to 3.7% this morning, lowest since 1969.
Corporate tax cuts and less regulation across all industries are helping capital spending= more jobs being created by small to mid sized companies=higher salaries, I sincerely doubt that Amazon upped their minimum wage to $15 this week just because they wanted to be nice. The most likely did it to hold on to workers. That is a huge positive, and from what you read salary increases are occurring industry wide, which is great. wages and benefits for lower paid workers were too low to sustain a decent living.

In Short;
Dem strategy appears to be pro worker but anti-business. Reality it does not work.
Republician strategy is to cut corporate and individual taxes, reduce regulations, encourage companies to set up shop here hire more people, and the increased tax receipts from higher GDP will hopefully pay for additional services.

At the moment here, despite all the negative sh*t you are bombarded with on the TV,  consumer confidence is very high, I travel a good bit for work and it genuinely seems to be not just in the North East.

Finally, Can Trump take all the credit, no. Do I agree with everything he does, absolutely not, However he has a business background and he has listened (sometimes) to some bright people and two years into his presidency his pro business policies are now paying dividends for workers.

As for the Dems, (my wife is a registered one), and she has even admitted that the current strategy of trying to stop Kavanaugh is all about getting their base motivated ahead of the mid-term elections. As for their economic strategy, non existent.

Ah now, bit of reading wouldn't go amiss.

Dem strategy is anti business, and Trump has a business background. I would fact check those two for a start.

Amazon's minimum wage is a factor of many things. Hold on to workers? Try share holder pressure and recruitment issues with the threat of significant legal action globally.

You may want to take a look at basic economic theory, before you start claiming a political party doesn't have a leg to stand in. The is economy is unsurprisingly remarakbly complicated, but never in history has a tax cut for the richest when there is a significant wage gap created anything other a temporary bump in equity prices, no trickle down, no investment, no repatriation of profits.

Sadly however there is no upside to mainstream politicians or the rich  to educating poor people in basic economic theory, And it's even better when you don't understand what liberal or socialist means and you turn them into a slur...

Joemamas.... you are right the economy is doing well currently. Simply put, a continuation of the 8 years of job and economic growth that The previous administration maintained despite Republican sniping. (You will remember who promoted the trickledown voodoo economics that caused the crash and who fixed it) The Trump tax cuts, mostly 85% give backs to the wealthy have done very little to narrow the wealth gap and have merely put the Economy on a "sugar" high which will crash pretty soon. If something is not done to pump up real demand; putting cash in the pockets of people who will spend it in the US immediately ( An example would be a huge amount of investment in infrastructure immediately) we will not sustain the current levels of growth. This current tax cut spend will not sustain increased demand much past the end of the year and  flame out due to inflation and increased health care costs. The increased healthcare costs will be taken out of "joe the plumbers" pocket because of the attacks on Obamacare by the Republicans. However he will keep on voting for them because he knows one day he will become a billionaire and God has told him it's the right thing to do. Ahhhhh I'm too tired to finish this but I hope you get the drift.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 06, 2018, 06:42:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)
what is he doing?

You never told me where you stood on High Speed Rail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 06, 2018, 06:46:00 AM
I guess I live further west than most of ye. ....... well anyway, the lads who have nothing better to do on a Friday night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 06, 2018, 09:28:56 AM
On a related note Kavanaugh played our beloved game in the summer of 1982 as stated in the now famous calender.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2018, 11:22:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2018, 01:56:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2018, 01:15:27 AM
One could come to a very logical conclusion about whether whitey believes Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Jimmy Savile or Brendan Smyth were innocent or guilty.

Because according to him a victim reporting a rape or an attempted rape after the fact does not count as evidence.

And therefore, according to whitey's logic, these men are totally innocent.

Her story just doesn't add up. 

Her best friend who was supposedly there at the party said she didn't even know Brett Kavanaugh and has no recollection of such a gathering even taking place. (and now it looks like she was pressurized by Fords team to alter her original sworn testimony)

The 2 or 3 other people who were supposedly present haven't a fvckin clue what she's talking about either

The 2 pillars of her story, the therapists report fand the polygraph haven't been handed over to either the FBI or the Senate judiciary committee-WHY?

It's a free country, believe what you want

Blah blah blah with the disinformation from your usual far right sources.

Of course you think her story doesn't add up.

She's i) a woman, ii) a highly intelligent scholar and iii) has accused a Republican lackey of attempting to rape her. All things people like you hate.

Far more reliable, apparently, are the "memories" somebody we know was an out and out drunkard.

Your confirmation bias, quite literally, is very strong with this one. As ever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 06, 2018, 01:12:20 PM
I would love to know what sort of payrises Gmac, Whitey and co got over the last decade to go with their GOP grá. Deflation is for small people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 06, 2018, 06:01:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)
what is he doing?

Was he touching her GMAC or just faking it. I thought Democrats were "fakers"
the girl in question has been interviewed lots of times and states he did grope her at this time which al can't remember of course
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:24:03 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 06, 2018, 06:42:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)
what is he doing?

You never told me where you stood on High Speed Rail.
do u have something to doing on me if u don't like the answer I give ??
In theory good but I have little faith in California getting anything done near on time or near on budget , started in 2015 for completion in 2023 so let's see
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2018, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 06, 2018, 06:01:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)
what is he doing?

Was he touching her GMAC or just faking it. I thought Democrats were "fakers"
the girl in question has been interviewed lots of times and states he did grope her at this time which al can't remember of course
Exactly the same as Bart O'Kavanaugh so - except for the key detail that Franken wasn't actually trying to rape her.

Did you think Franken was right to resign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 06, 2018, 05:03:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:24:03 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 06, 2018, 06:42:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2018, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)
what is he doing?

You never told me where you stood on High Speed Rail.
do u have something to doing on me if u don't like the answer I give ??
In theory good but I have little faith in California getting anything done near on time or near on budget , started in 2015 for completion in 2023 so let's see

I was just trying to find something that we could agree on. I think, We almost agree about High Speed Rail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 05:58:30 AM
https://balkin.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-vicious-entrenchment-circle.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 07, 2018, 01:30:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 05:58:30 AM
https://balkin.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-vicious-entrenchment-circle.html

Depressing.

Righteous causes such as gay rights have advanced, while environmental protections have just about held on, but will they continue to buck the odds with this new court (god help us if anything happens to Ginsburg or Breyer). GOP is already doing all they can to discourage black voting and empower the rights of business over consumers, workers and the environment/public health. As for the abortion issue... Where will it end?

Maybe I'm too pessimistic. Perhaps the likes of whitey and Gmac could explain to us how a hardline conservative Supreme Court will make our lives better?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 07, 2018, 02:09:55 PM
Because the country will be better prepared for the second coming..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 03:19:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2018, 01:30:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 05:58:30 AM
https://balkin.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-vicious-entrenchment-circle.html

Depressing.

Righteous causes such as gay rights have advanced, while environmental protections have just about held on, but will they continue to buck the odds with this new court (god help us if anything happens to Ginsburg or Breyer). GOP is already doing all they can to discourage black voting and empower the rights of business over consumers, workers and the environment/public health. As for the abortion issue... Where will it end?

Maybe I'm too pessimistic. Perhaps the likes of whitey and Gmac could explain to us how a hardline conservative Supreme Court will make our lives better?
Kavanaugh and Gorsuch judge that environmental regulations are unconstitutional . This is insane.  Red States are already being hammered by climate change.
I think the GOP are too extreme to be sustainable. They betray their own voters too often.
Most of the successes of recent years will probably be rewound over time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 04:30:04 PM
The US probably needs a new constitution. Neither the Senate nor the Electoral college work as designed. The checks and balances couldn't stop Trump . The only question is how much more damage is done before the system is reformed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 05:04:50 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/AshaRangappa_/status/1048987764430135297/photo/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.

I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here.
but then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 08, 2018, 03:03:08 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.

I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here.
but then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)
It seems to me there are many, many people living in Ireland and elsewhere a hell of a lot more knowledgable about US politics than most people who live in the US.

Why is it that pro-Republican posters have such a weird paranoia complex about other people having their say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 08, 2018, 03:20:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 08, 2018, 03:03:08 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.

I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here.
but then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)
It seems to me there are many, many people living in Ireland and elsewhere a hell of a lot more knowledgable about US politics than most people who live in the US.

Why is it that pro-Republican posters have such a weird paranoia complex about other people having their say?


;D ;D ;D ;D

I dont vote but certainly wouldn't lean that way, but that is hilarious.
Tho to be fair the funniest thing about it is.... I probably thought that too at a point

But I guess it all hinges on what figure would you put on "many many" ?

Anyway maybe you give us a quick rundown of the Paelo and Neo Cons?

And when your finished would you tell me the difference between Libertarians and Anarchists?

The other aspect of it is Most Americans wouldn't give a toss about Irish or European politics. I would safely say that most Californians wouldn't even know what Northern Ireland is. And the thing is... why would they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 08, 2018, 04:54:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 08, 2018, 03:03:08 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.

I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here.
but then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)
It seems to me there are many, many people living in Ireland and elsewhere a hell of a lot more knowledgable about US politics than most people who live in the US.

Why is it that pro-Republican posters have such a weird paranoia complex about other people having their say?

If you regard regurgitation of CNN talking points as akin to knowledgeable I'm sure you're onto something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 08, 2018, 06:04:01 PM
Again, whitey, tell me the primary sources of your information.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 08, 2018, 07:45:27 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM


I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here. But then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)

I love it too, maybe you could love it enough to get as knowledgeable yourself? I don't think the issue is intellectual superiority, but probably more around level of effort to get facts from factual sources.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 08, 2018, 06:04:01 PM
Again, whitey, tell me the primary sources of your information.
Looks like the Koch bros
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 08, 2018, 08:12:26 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 08, 2018, 07:45:27 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM


I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here. But then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)

I love it too, maybe you could love it enough to get as knowledgeable yourself? I don't think the issue is intellectual superiority, but probably more around level of effort to get facts from factual sources.
To be fair, it's pretty much undeniable that there is a strong causative effect between lack of intellect and getting your "news" and "facts" from non-factual sources.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:20:25 PM
Klobuchar's intro here is on the ball.  What is going on in the US right now is not normal

https://youtu.be/OSoYmY4LoX8

Take it away maestro

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1049359227003781120/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 08, 2018, 09:08:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 08, 2018, 07:45:27 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM


I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here. But then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)

I love it too, maybe you could love it enough to get as knowledgeable yourself? I don't think the issue is intellectual superiority, but probably more around level of effort to get facts from factual sources.

Thats not the issue, even if people accept facts they will elevate or demote their importance depending on wether of not it supports their point/causes/man/party.

Sure politicians speeches and retoric have always been littered with inaccuracies and fallacies to make their point. But people dont care, they like what their saying and thats that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on October 08, 2018, 09:11:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)

He was just explaining to a colleague what Brett Kavanaugh did to Christine Blasey Ford.

On a related topic - Anyone hear any more about Keith Ellison (the democrat vice chair) and the allegations made against him?
I'd expect the #MeToo movement are making his life hell these days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 08, 2018, 11:14:19 PM
Required reading by Peter Beinart which blows the transparently bogus "false equivalence" "both sides" narrative out of the water.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/has-american-politics-hit-rock-bottom/572452/?utm_source=twb

Civility Has Its Limits
The conflict over Brett Kavanaugh's nomination centered not on tribalism, but on a lack of justice.

Peter Beinart
Professor of journalism at the City University of New York

When it comes to Brett Kavanaugh, there are three camps. The first believes it's a travesty that he was confirmed. The second believes it's a travesty that he was smeared. The third believes it's a travesty that the process was so divisive.

David Brooks is in the third camp. The Kavanaugh hearings, he wrote on Friday, constituted an "American nadir." You often hear such phrases from people who think the biggest problem with the Kavanaugh battle is that the participants weren't more courteous and open-minded. Jeff Flake said that in debating Kavanaugh, the Senate "hit bottom." Susan Collins called it "rock bottom." Think about that for a second. For most of American history, Supreme Court nominees—like virtually all powerful men—could sexually assault women with complete impunity. Now, because allegations of such behavior sparked a raucous, intemperate political fight, America has hit "rock bottom," a "nadir." How much better things were in the good old days, when sexual-assault allegations didn't polarize the confirmation process, because sexual-assault victims were politically invisible.

Implying, as Brooks, Flake, and Collins do, that America's real problem is a lack of civility rather than a lack of justice requires assuming a moral equivalence between Brett Kavanaugh's supporters and Christine Blasey Ford's. "What we saw in these hearings," writes Brooks, "was the unvarnished tribalization of national life." The term tribe implies atavistic, amoral group loyalty: Huns versus Franks, Yankees versus Red Sox, Hatfields versus McCoys. There are no larger principles at stake. "There was nothing particularly ideological about the narratives," laid out by Kavanaugh and Ford, Brooks declares, "nothing that touched on capitalism, immigration or any of the other great disputes of national life."


But gender is indeed one of the "great disputes of national life." The Kavanaugh fight pitted people who worry that #MeToo hasn't changed America enough, that it's still too easy for men to get away with sexual assault, against people who fear that #MeToo has changed America too much, that it's become too easy for women to ruin men's lives by charging them with sexual assault. That's not a tribal struggle; it's an ideological one. It involves competing visions of the relationship between women and men.

Describing Democrats and Republicans as warring tribes has become a political cliché, but it's wrong. If tribal implies unthinking or inherited group loyalty, then Democrats and Republicans were actually more tribal in the mid-20th century. Back then, when being a Democrat or a Republican signified less about your view of the world, party identity was more a function of regional or ancestral ties. Whether or not they supported civil rights or higher taxes or the Korean War, Irish Catholics from Boston were mostly Democrats; Presbyterians from Kansas were mostly Republicans. Today, party identity is more a function of what you believe. The parties are so bitterly polarized not because they've become more tribal but because they've become more ideological.

But for Brooks, depicting the supporters of Kavanaugh and Ford as tribes is useful because it doesn't only suggest moral equivalence, it also implies an equivalence of power. The "tribalization" of American politics, Brooks argues, "leads to an epidemic of bigotry. Bigotry involves creating a stereotype about a disfavored group and then applying that stereotype to an individual you've never met. It was bigotry against Jews that got Alfred Dreyfus convicted in 1894. It was bigotry against young black males that got the Central Park Five convicted in 1990. It was bigotry against preppy lacrosse players that led to the bogus Duke lacrosse scandal."


This is misleading. There is no equivalence between the "bigotry" faced by preppy lacrosse players and that faced by black males. There's no equivalence, because preppy lacrosse players, in general, enjoy far more privilege and power and thus, the stereotypes people hold of them don't generally land them in jail or dead. Similarly, there is no equivalence between the "bigotry" faced by men accused of sexual assault and the "bigotry" faced by women who suffer it. There's no equivalence, because men wield far more power. If you don't think that matters, try imagining Kavanaugh getting confirmed by a Senate composed of 79 women.

The struggle over Kavanaugh was, at its core, a struggle between people who want gender relations to change and people who want them to remain the same. And throughout American history, whenever oppressed groups and their supporters have agitated for change, respectable moderates have warned that they were fomenting incivility and division. In April 1963, seven white Alabama ministers and one rabbi wrote a letter to Martin Luther King Jr.. The letter articulated no position on segregation and the right to vote. It assumed, instead, a moral equivalence between blacks who wanted race relations to change and whites who wanted them to remain the same. Both sides held "honest convictions in racial matters." Both "our white and Negro citizenry" should "observe the principles of law and order and common sense."

The real danger, the authors claimed, was "friction and unrest." Averting it required "forbearance" and "restraint" on both sides. King, whose Birmingham campaign was titled "Project C"—for confrontation—was purposefully fomenting such friction and unrest through marches, sit-ins, and boycotts. While "technically peaceful," the ministers and rabbi warned, the "extreme measures" adopted by King and his supporters "incite to hatred and violence."


In his response, written from jail, King argued that the white clergymen were mistaking symptom for disease. The problem wasn't "friction and unrest" between Birmingham's two tribes. It was centuries of oppression, which there was no frictionless way to overcome. "I am not afraid of the word 'tension,'" King explained. "We must see the need of having nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men to rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood."

Even as Bull Connor's men savagely beat black protesters in the streets, King recognized that Birmingham was not hitting "rock bottom." It was rising from an almost century-long nadir in which white supremacy—no matter how murderous—was barely even a subject of political controversy, in which black powerlessness was the foundation on which comity between two of America's white-dominated political parties rested.

The problem that the Kavanaugh struggle laid bare is not "unvarnished tribalism." The problem is that women who allege abuse by men still often face male-dominated institutions that do not thoroughly and honestly investigate their claims. That problem is not new; it is very old. What is new is that this injustice now sparks bitter partisan conflict and upends long-standing courtesies. Rape survivors yell at politicians in the Senate halls. The varnish—the attractive, glossy coating that protected male oppression of women—is coming off. Brooks, Collins, and Flake may decry the "tension" this exposes. But, as King understood, the "dark depths of prejudice" can't be overcome any other way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 08, 2018, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 08, 2018, 11:14:19 PM
Required reading by Peter Beinart which blows the transparently bogus "false equivalence" "both sides" narrative out of the water.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/has-american-politics-hit-rock-bottom/572452/?utm_source=twb

Civility Has Its Limits
The conflict over Brett Kavanaugh's nomination centered not on tribalism, but on a lack of justice.

Peter Beinart
Professor of journalism at the City University of New York

When it comes to Brett Kavanaugh, there are three camps. The first believes it's a travesty that he was confirmed. The second believes it's a travesty that he was smeared. The third believes it's a travesty that the process was so divisive.

David Brooks is in the third camp. The Kavanaugh hearings, he wrote on Friday, constituted an "American nadir." You often hear such phrases from people who think the biggest problem with the Kavanaugh battle is that the participants weren't more courteous and open-minded. Jeff Flake said that in debating Kavanaugh, the Senate "hit bottom." Susan Collins called it "rock bottom." Think about that for a second. For most of American history, Supreme Court nominees—like virtually all powerful men—could sexually assault women with complete impunity. Now, because allegations of such behavior sparked a raucous, intemperate political fight, America has hit "rock bottom," a "nadir." How much better things were in the good old days, when sexual-assault allegations didn't polarize the confirmation process, because sexual-assault victims were politically invisible.

Implying, as Brooks, Flake, and Collins do, that America's real problem is a lack of civility rather than a lack of justice requires assuming a moral equivalence between Brett Kavanaugh's supporters and Christine Blasey Ford's. "What we saw in these hearings," writes Brooks, "was the unvarnished tribalization of national life." The term tribe implies atavistic, amoral group loyalty: Huns versus Franks, Yankees versus Red Sox, Hatfields versus McCoys. There are no larger principles at stake. "There was nothing particularly ideological about the narratives," laid out by Kavanaugh and Ford, Brooks declares, "nothing that touched on capitalism, immigration or any of the other great disputes of national life."


But gender is indeed one of the "great disputes of national life." The Kavanaugh fight pitted people who worry that #MeToo hasn't changed America enough, that it's still too easy for men to get away with sexual assault, against people who fear that #MeToo has changed America too much, that it's become too easy for women to ruin men's lives by charging them with sexual assault. That's not a tribal struggle; it's an ideological one. It involves competing visions of the relationship between women and men.

Describing Democrats and Republicans as warring tribes has become a political cliché, but it's wrong. If tribal implies unthinking or inherited group loyalty, then Democrats and Republicans were actually more tribal in the mid-20th century. Back then, when being a Democrat or a Republican signified less about your view of the world, party identity was more a function of regional or ancestral ties. Whether or not they supported civil rights or higher taxes or the Korean War, Irish Catholics from Boston were mostly Democrats; Presbyterians from Kansas were mostly Republicans. Today, party identity is more a function of what you believe. The parties are so bitterly polarized not because they've become more tribal but because they've become more ideological.

But for Brooks, depicting the supporters of Kavanaugh and Ford as tribes is useful because it doesn't only suggest moral equivalence, it also implies an equivalence of power. The "tribalization" of American politics, Brooks argues, "leads to an epidemic of bigotry. Bigotry involves creating a stereotype about a disfavored group and then applying that stereotype to an individual you've never met. It was bigotry against Jews that got Alfred Dreyfus convicted in 1894. It was bigotry against young black males that got the Central Park Five convicted in 1990. It was bigotry against preppy lacrosse players that led to the bogus Duke lacrosse scandal."


This is misleading. There is no equivalence between the "bigotry" faced by preppy lacrosse players and that faced by black males. There's no equivalence, because preppy lacrosse players, in general, enjoy far more privilege and power and thus, the stereotypes people hold of them don't generally land them in jail or dead. Similarly, there is no equivalence between the "bigotry" faced by men accused of sexual assault and the "bigotry" faced by women who suffer it. There's no equivalence, because men wield far more power. If you don't think that matters, try imagining Kavanaugh getting confirmed by a Senate composed of 79 women.

The struggle over Kavanaugh was, at its core, a struggle between people who want gender relations to change and people who want them to remain the same. And throughout American history, whenever oppressed groups and their supporters have agitated for change, respectable moderates have warned that they were fomenting incivility and division. In April 1963, seven white Alabama ministers and one rabbi wrote a letter to Martin Luther King Jr.. The letter articulated no position on segregation and the right to vote. It assumed, instead, a moral equivalence between blacks who wanted race relations to change and whites who wanted them to remain the same. Both sides held "honest convictions in racial matters." Both "our white and Negro citizenry" should "observe the principles of law and order and common sense."

The real danger, the authors claimed, was "friction and unrest." Averting it required "forbearance" and "restraint" on both sides. King, whose Birmingham campaign was titled "Project C"—for confrontation—was purposefully fomenting such friction and unrest through marches, sit-ins, and boycotts. While "technically peaceful," the ministers and rabbi warned, the "extreme measures" adopted by King and his supporters "incite to hatred and violence."


In his response, written from jail, King argued that the white clergymen were mistaking symptom for disease. The problem wasn't "friction and unrest" between Birmingham's two tribes. It was centuries of oppression, which there was no frictionless way to overcome. "I am not afraid of the word 'tension,'" King explained. "We must see the need of having nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men to rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood."

Even as Bull Connor's men savagely beat black protesters in the streets, King recognized that Birmingham was not hitting "rock bottom." It was rising from an almost century-long nadir in which white supremacy—no matter how murderous—was barely even a subject of political controversy, in which black powerlessness was the foundation on which comity between two of America's white-dominated political parties rested.

The problem that the Kavanaugh struggle laid bare is not "unvarnished tribalism." The problem is that women who allege abuse by men still often face male-dominated institutions that do not thoroughly and honestly investigate their claims. That problem is not new; it is very old. What is new is that this injustice now sparks bitter partisan conflict and upends long-standing courtesies. Rape survivors yell at politicians in the Senate halls. The varnish—the attractive, glossy coating that protected male oppression of women—is coming off. Brooks, Collins, and Flake may decry the "tension" this exposes. But, as King understood, the "dark depths of prejudice" can't be overcome any other way.

Bullsh1t.....it was a democratic hit job and delay tactic that backfired and I'm delighted he got confirmed.

Not a shred of evidence that Kavanaugh was involved in anything apart from underage drinking and poor judgement about what he wrote in his yearbook. FFS her best friend who was supposedly present said she had no knowledge of such a gathering and that she didn't even know BK

(Seemingly/supposedly the FBI have text messages where people close to Dr Ford tried to coax Ms Keyser to change her original statement)

But, believe what you want.....it's a free country.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 09, 2018, 12:43:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 08, 2018, 11:55:02 PM


Bullsh1t.....it was a democratic hit job and delay tactic that backfired and I'm delighted he got confirmed.


As a hardcore Republican and an outright misogynist, well, duh you're delighted.

You forgot the "salty liberal tears" bit there.

Must do better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 09, 2018, 03:04:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.
danny Healy Rae is making a big speech tomorrow about the price of round bales should be good
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 07:15:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.


Politics is not conceptual like mathematics, quantum mechanics or metaphysics, its start point is a human experience not some macro analysis ... the only way to fully understand it is by living that experience.

Its like watching a film if you wanted to understand a film would you read a load of reviews or would you watch the film
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on October 09, 2018, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.

And mainstream Democrats as well, it's all based on the American mentality; if you work hard enough you can make it too.

When you talk to republicans and democrats (in NJ, as the differences between the two have regional variances), the conversations will centre around the following arguments, big government 'v' small government, new immigrants needing to adapt to America, not the other way around ''v' America should be set up to ease entry into American society (immigrant support services). immigration policy, (economic immigrant policy 'v' family immigrant policy), and lastly taxes.

During discussions that I've had, I've always found them to being interesting, and the rep and demo leaning people have honest points.

For example, Rep attitude to taxes, lower corp taxes to encourage company's to employ more people in USA with better paid jobs which in turn helps pull people out of poverty 'v' high taxes to support the poor with benefits

These are the debates that you will exposed to while living in America, debates that you wont hear in the news channels.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 01:35:33 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 07:15:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.


Politics is not conceptual like mathematics, quantum mechanics or metaphysics, its start point is a human experience not some macro analysis ... the only way to fully understand it is by living that experience.

Its like watching a film if you wanted to understand a film would you read a load of reviews or would you watch the film
Politics now is a function of economics.
Sometimes experience is not a reliable guide to the future. Climate change is an example
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on October 09, 2018, 02:13:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.


Hey Dr.

When you finish figuring out the problems back home and there seems to be a fair chunk of them, can you define "Rich", or maybe you are confusing it with successful, entrepreneurial and having spent their entire life working their ass off to build something, which when they pass on whatever is in their estate can be taxed at 50%, oh btw, they already paid income tax on those funds.
In the US, the top 1% account for 40% of all taxes collected, the top 10% account for 70% of all taxes collected.
btw, if you have been fortunate enough to be in the top 10%, additionally you probably pay $20k+ in annual real estate taxes which go to local schools and services, you will be paying full freight for college $50k-$70k per year, (which I am fine with, (not the price but paying it) as there are a less fortunate folks with less means, and I truly believe that education is the long -term answer to generational problems.)

I did not include sending your kids to catholic grammar school or catholic high school.
so if you truly believe that their is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or that the majority of folks who have been successful did not work for it, or don't pay taxes, then dream on.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 01:35:33 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 07:15:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.


Politics is not conceptual like mathematics, quantum mechanics or metaphysics, its start point is a human experience not some macro analysis ... the only way to fully understand it is by living that experience.

Its like watching a film if you wanted to understand a film would you read a load of reviews or would you watch the film
Politics now is a function of economics.
Sometimes experience is not a reliable guide to the future. Climate change is an example

No its not, its the other way around, same as always.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 09, 2018, 06:11:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.
what about google, amazon, apple , Facebook should all these companies be allowed to keep getting bigger or should they be broken up ? I'm sure these companies wield a lot more influence than the Koch brothers and it's all on the dem side . All these companies are influencing policies that are destroying a state like California creating a huge gap in rich and poor ,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:23:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2018, 06:11:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.
what about google, amazon, apple , Facebook should all these companies be allowed to keep getting bigger or should they be broken up ? I'm sure these companies wield a lot more influence than the Koch brothers and it's all on the dem side . All these companies are influencing policies that are destroying a state like California creating a huge gap in rich and poor ,
Of course they should be broken up. Kavanaugh is very anti anti trust so it won't happen until the people vote for a Government that will do it.
Tammany Hall is an interesting story from the American past.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 09, 2018, 08:19:46 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 09, 2018, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.

And mainstream Democrats as well, it's all based on the American mentality; if you work hard enough you can make it too.

When you talk to republicans and democrats (in NJ, as the differences between the two have regional variances), the conversations will centre around the following arguments, big government 'v' small government, new immigrants needing to adapt to America, not the other way around ''v' America should be set up to ease entry into American society (immigrant support services). immigration policy, (economic immigrant policy 'v' family immigrant policy), and lastly taxes.

During discussions that I've had, I've always found them to being interesting, and the rep and demo leaning people have honest points.

For example, Rep attitude to taxes, lower corp taxes to encourage company's to employ more people in USA with better paid jobs which in turn helps pull people out of poverty 'v' high taxes to support the poor with benefits

These are the debates that you will exposed to while living in America, debates that you wont hear in the news channels.
All these debates are universal and in their US context endless reams of debates about them are easily accessible online.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on October 10, 2018, 08:11:41 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on October 08, 2018, 09:11:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/leeann_airplane_pic-1/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913)

He was just explaining to a colleague what Brett Kavanaugh did to Christine Blasey Ford.

On a related topic - Anyone hear any more about Keith Ellison (the democrat vice chair) and the allegations made against him?
I'd expect the #MeToo movement are making his life hell these days.


Keith Ellison.???? Any takers????
I find it surprising the lack of mention from usual commentators especially since we're on this "she must be believed" buzz.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on October 10, 2018, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 09, 2018, 08:19:46 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 09, 2018, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.

And mainstream Democrats as well, it's all based on the American mentality; if you work hard enough you can make it too.

When you talk to republicans and democrats (in NJ, as the differences between the two have regional variances), the conversations will centre around the following arguments, big government 'v' small government, new immigrants needing to adapt to America, not the other way around ''v' America should be set up to ease entry into American society (immigrant support services). immigration policy, (economic immigrant policy 'v' family immigrant policy), and lastly taxes.

During discussions that I've had, I've always found them to being interesting, and the rep and demo leaning people have honest points.

For example, Rep attitude to taxes, lower corp taxes to encourage company's to employ more people in USA with better paid jobs which in turn helps pull people out of poverty 'v' high taxes to support the poor with benefits

These are the debates that you will exposed to while living in America, debates that you wont hear in the news channels.
All these debates are universal and in their US context endless reams of debates about them are easily accessible online.

In that case, would you agreed that people from outside Northern Ireland would understand the NI people, politics and local issues by watching our political leaders debate on TV?

Or would you agree with the statement that  people would understand the complexities of the border to the same level as the local border communities by watching the DUP / Tories / Sinn Fein debate on line.

Or would the people living in the country have a deeper understanding of the issues via living in the community 'v' someone who watched online debates
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 12:42:56 PM
Beto O Rourke is polling 6 points behind Ted Cruz

https://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/senate/tx/texas_senate_cruz_vs_orourke-6310.html

Cruz is the man many people love to hate


https://newrepublic.com/article/128808/everybody-hates-ted

Should be interesting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2018, 12:50:52 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 10, 2018, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 09, 2018, 08:19:46 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 09, 2018, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.

And mainstream Democrats as well, it's all based on the American mentality; if you work hard enough you can make it too.

When you talk to republicans and democrats (in NJ, as the differences between the two have regional variances), the conversations will centre around the following arguments, big government 'v' small government, new immigrants needing to adapt to America, not the other way around ''v' America should be set up to ease entry into American society (immigrant support services). immigration policy, (economic immigrant policy 'v' family immigrant policy), and lastly taxes.

During discussions that I've had, I've always found them to being interesting, and the rep and demo leaning people have honest points.

For example, Rep attitude to taxes, lower corp taxes to encourage company's to employ more people in USA with better paid jobs which in turn helps pull people out of poverty 'v' high taxes to support the poor with benefits

These are the debates that you will exposed to while living in America, debates that you wont hear in the news channels.
All these debates are universal and in their US context endless reams of debates about them are easily accessible online.

In that case, would you agreed that people from outside Northern Ireland would understand the NI people, politics and local issues by watching our political leaders debate on TV?

Or would you agree with the statement that  people would understand the complexities of the border to the same level as the local border communities by watching the DUP / Tories / Sinn Fein debate on line.

Or would the people living in the country have a deeper understanding of the issues via living in the community 'v' someone who watched online debates
I'm not from Northern Ireland and intricately understand all these things, mainly by watching television and reading.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on October 10, 2018, 03:30:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2018, 12:50:52 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 10, 2018, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 09, 2018, 08:19:46 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 09, 2018, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.

And mainstream Democrats as well, it's all based on the American mentality; if you work hard enough you can make it too.

When you talk to republicans and democrats (in NJ, as the differences between the two have regional variances), the conversations will centre around the following arguments, big government 'v' small government, new immigrants needing to adapt to America, not the other way around ''v' America should be set up to ease entry into American society (immigrant support services). immigration policy, (economic immigrant policy 'v' family immigrant policy), and lastly taxes.

During discussions that I've had, I've always found them to being interesting, and the rep and demo leaning people have honest points.

For example, Rep attitude to taxes, lower corp taxes to encourage company's to employ more people in USA with better paid jobs which in turn helps pull people out of poverty 'v' high taxes to support the poor with benefits

These are the debates that you will exposed to while living in America, debates that you wont hear in the news channels.
All these debates are universal and in their US context endless reams of debates about them are easily accessible online.

In that case, would you agreed that people from outside Northern Ireland would understand the NI people, politics and local issues by watching our political leaders debate on TV?

Or would you agree with the statement that  people would understand the complexities of the border to the same level as the local border communities by watching the DUP / Tories / Sinn Fein debate on line.

Or would the people living in the country have a deeper understanding of the issues via living in the community 'v' someone who watched online debates
I'm not from Northern Ireland and intricately understand all these things, mainly by watching television and reading.
I doubt it.

My club was hammered last year in the public domain regarding PH , and zero nuance surrounding the community history in regards to police harassment / threats, how a significant section of the club supported PH, was communicated in any debate / newspapers. Yet everybody on this website and in NI society had "expert" opinions on what had happened, yet nobody outside of the community did
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 10, 2018, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2018, 12:50:52 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 10, 2018, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 09, 2018, 08:19:46 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 09, 2018, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.

And mainstream Democrats as well, it's all based on the American mentality; if you work hard enough you can make it too.

When you talk to republicans and democrats (in NJ, as the differences between the two have regional variances), the conversations will centre around the following arguments, big government 'v' small government, new immigrants needing to adapt to America, not the other way around ''v' America should be set up to ease entry into American society (immigrant support services). immigration policy, (economic immigrant policy 'v' family immigrant policy), and lastly taxes.

During discussions that I've had, I've always found them to being interesting, and the rep and demo leaning people have honest points.

For example, Rep attitude to taxes, lower corp taxes to encourage company's to employ more people in USA with better paid jobs which in turn helps pull people out of poverty 'v' high taxes to support the poor with benefits

These are the debates that you will exposed to while living in America, debates that you wont hear in the news channels.
All these debates are universal and in their US context endless reams of debates about them are easily accessible online.

In that case, would you agreed that people from outside Northern Ireland would understand the NI people, politics and local issues by watching our political leaders debate on TV?

Or would you agree with the statement that  people would understand the complexities of the border to the same level as the local border communities by watching the DUP / Tories / Sinn Fein debate on line.

Or would the people living in the country have a deeper understanding of the issues via living in the community 'v' someone who watched online debates
I'm not from Northern Ireland and intricately understand all these things, mainly by watching television and reading.

:) :) :) :)
This is the gift that keeps giving....

Funny how it is then why most (if not all) southerners including my cousins who visited multiple times a year and are well versed on NI tend to ask questions of the political situation if it arises in conversation. Much like I do with the south or for that matter of Belfast or Derry people, or even East Tyrone FFS. Everyone's experience is different so pretending you already know all about it your only really kidding yourself.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:00:49 PM
I don't think a comparison of NI and the US is valid. NI is a small region where nothing much happens.
The US is the biggest economy in the world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2018, 06:20:22 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 09, 2018, 02:13:17 PM


Hey Dr.

When you finish figuring out the problems back home and there seems to be a fair chunk of them, can you define "Rich", or maybe you are confusing it with successful, entrepreneurial and having spent their entire life working their ass off to build something, which when they pass on whatever is in their estate can be taxed at 50%, oh btw, they already paid income tax on those funds.
In the US, the top 1% account for 40% of all taxes collected, the top 10% account for 70% of all taxes collected.
btw, if you have been fortunate enough to be in the top 10%, additionally you probably pay $20k+ in annual real estate taxes which go to local schools and services, you will be paying full freight for college $50k-$70k per year, (which I am fine with, (not the price but paying it) as there are a less fortunate folks with less means, and I truly believe that education is the long -term answer to generational problems.)

I did not include sending your kids to catholic grammar school or catholic high school.
so if you truly believe that their is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or that the majority of folks who have been successful did not work for it, or don't pay taxes, then dream on.

Oh the poor downtrodden wealthy.

Wages have not been keeping up with growing corporate profits since the 1970s. Entrepreneurs like Elon Musk and Bill Gates are the exception to the rule. The majority of rich people did nothing to earn their wealth other than owning property, owning stocks, owning bonds, and owning all manner of stuff that they inherited from rich parents, a bit like the current US president.

(https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/inequality-pimer-infocus_infocus.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2018, 10:39:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2018, 06:20:22 PM
The majority of rich people did nothing to earn their wealth other than owning property, owning stocks, owning bonds, and owning all manner of stuff that they inherited from rich parents, a bit like the current US president.


There's a great quote from a book called "The View from Flyover Country" by Sarah Kendzior.

"When wealth is passed off as merit, bad luck is seen as bad character.

This is how ideologues justify punishing the sick and the poor but poverty is neither a crime nor a character flaw. Stigmatise those who let people die, not those who have struggled to live."



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2018, 10:49:11 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 10, 2018, 03:30:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2018, 12:50:52 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 10, 2018, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 09, 2018, 08:19:46 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on October 09, 2018, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 09, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 08, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.

It gives you context and an understanding that you don't have and cant experience by reading about it with preconceived notions. You cant choose who you meet in the same way as you can choose what you read so it exposes you to perspectives at a personal perspective that you just cant get working from concepts alone.

I'll give you an example. I know a couple of fellas one is Hispanic (whatever that is) the other is Asian (sort of). both young, educated, fairly nerdy, good jobs, good craic, decent lads. To you or me or any1 else they come across as down to earth, smart and normal.. But what do they do their free time? They drive out into their desert to drink beer and shoot guns at shitty targets they set up. I get a good ole laugh outta this cos to me its the most hillbilly thing I ever heard of. Now they hate Trump think he and most Republicans are morons but if you try and tell them they shouldn't be allowed to shoot their guns in the desert in the desert because some psychopath shot up a school they wouldn't think its ridiculous or be outraged or anything else... they would just laugh their heads off as to to them what you are saying would be completely illogical. A German fella got into it with them about guns once and starting citing all these countries with low gun crime rates, it soon shutup when they asked him about Switzerland (he didnt have a clue incidentally!) Now I don't know how they vote, I suspect blue but if the right GOP candidate came along they would vote for them in a flinch.

Now this is the thing you don't get about reading politics in America you don't get the one on one interaction with people, so you don't really get to understand where they are coming from and how genuine they are.
You dont get a feel of the vastness of opinions, eventually you find out that everyone has a different opinion, no one it turns out fits the mould of a typical righty or liberal. And these people come in all shapes, shades, ages and places.
You dont get how politics affects you personally, your income, healthcare, roads, rent, crime in your area. And how you feel about that. You can hypothessze all you want about how you'll feel but the truth is... you just dont know until your in that situation.

Also... never kicked a ball is very true you would know it if ye ever did. I could never tell how good a footballer some is until I played agin or with them , it just gives you a perspective that you cant get when your watching in the stands....and commenting on American politics from Ireland well I am afraid your only watching in the stands.

And most Americans would think its hilarious that you even are watching from the stands, the only people that take notice of you are eejits like me expats...a good portion of whom cant or don't vote.

Whether or not you think people can understand something without direct experience depends on how your brain works. Some people can only do what they know.

What is going on in the US now is fascinating. An economic system is dying. The richest 1% own around 50% of everything. The GOP has managed to convince people that this is fine.

And mainstream Democrats as well, it's all based on the American mentality; if you work hard enough you can make it too.

When you talk to republicans and democrats (in NJ, as the differences between the two have regional variances), the conversations will centre around the following arguments, big government 'v' small government, new immigrants needing to adapt to America, not the other way around ''v' America should be set up to ease entry into American society (immigrant support services). immigration policy, (economic immigrant policy 'v' family immigrant policy), and lastly taxes.

During discussions that I've had, I've always found them to being interesting, and the rep and demo leaning people have honest points.

For example, Rep attitude to taxes, lower corp taxes to encourage company's to employ more people in USA with better paid jobs which in turn helps pull people out of poverty 'v' high taxes to support the poor with benefits

These are the debates that you will exposed to while living in America, debates that you wont hear in the news channels.
All these debates are universal and in their US context endless reams of debates about them are easily accessible online.

In that case, would you agreed that people from outside Northern Ireland would understand the NI people, politics and local issues by watching our political leaders debate on TV?

Or would you agree with the statement that  people would understand the complexities of the border to the same level as the local border communities by watching the DUP / Tories / Sinn Fein debate on line.

Or would the people living in the country have a deeper understanding of the issues via living in the community 'v' someone who watched online debates
I'm not from Northern Ireland and intricately understand all these things, mainly by watching television and reading.
I doubt it.

My club was hammered last year in the public domain regarding PH , and zero nuance surrounding the community history in regards to police harassment / threats, how a significant section of the club supported PH, was communicated in any debate / newspapers. Yet everybody on this website and in NI society had "expert" opinions on what had happened, yet nobody outside of the community did
I certainly wasn't hammering your club, in fact my view on the issue was highly nuanced and I extensively defended them on another forum over the treatment they received both from Joe Brolly and on social media.

Most of that "hammering" came from within the entity known as Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2018, 11:26:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.
Lolz.

You sure it's not www.gaaboard/r/thedonald ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 11, 2018, 11:16:53 AM
Presumably the top model is the one to aspire to, or something something.

(https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/14/14-inequality-1.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 08:30:29 AM
Douglas A. Blackmon

@douglasblackmon
·
16h

1/2 Back when the post-Hurricane Katrina images showed black people taking diapers, food and water from stores, it was mostly called "looting." Now with white victims, it's "salvaging supplies."
But both catastrophes (and Maria) share two things: .



Douglas A. Blackmon

@douglasblackmon
·
16h

2/2
The two things shared by Hurricanes Katrina, Maria & Michael:

1) A Republican White House that refused to listen, to fully fund preparations, or to get ready, and then blamed first responders & victims.

2) A president who arrogantly scoffed at the peril of climate change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on October 14, 2018, 11:54:33 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)


https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-12-22/trump-resort-in-ireland-will-build-seawalls-to-protect-against-climate-change

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 15, 2018, 12:37:02 AM
https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/13/bill-maher-political-correctness-scott-kelly/

They've officially lost the plot. Not a lot of hope for mankind...........er...I mean humankind
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM
Attaboy whitey .... love the Daily Caller
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 15, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM
Attaboy whitey .... love the Daily Caller

The clip is the clip.....it's available on numerous sites. find one more to your liking if you don't like the Daily Caller

And for what it's worth, the Daily Caller is about as credible as CNN, The NY Times or NBC

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nbc-news-trump-robert-e-lee_us_5bc3813de4b0bd9ed55b2eda
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 15, 2018, 03:28:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM
Attaboy whitey .... love the Daily Caller

The clip is the clip.....it's available on numerous sites. find one more to your liking if you don't like the Daily Caller

And for what it's worth, the Daily Caller is about as credible as CNN, The NY Times or NBC

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nbc-news-trump-robert-e-lee_us_5bc3813de4b0bd9ed55b2eda


"NBC News has issued a correction "

You can tell that NBC is one of those liberal media outlets because it issues corrections. The conservative/right wing/conspiracy loon lot double down on the bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 15, 2018, 06:06:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 12:37:02 AM
https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/13/bill-maher-political-correctness-scott-kelly/

They've officially lost the plot. Not a lot of hope for mankind...........er...I mean humankind

WTF Whitey
The Daily Caller is a conservative American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C. It was founded by political pundit Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel in 2010.
Of course it's objective
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 15, 2018, 07:34:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM
Attaboy whitey .... love the Daily Caller

The clip is the clip.....it's available on numerous sites. find one more to your liking if you don't like the Daily Caller

And for what it's worth, the Daily Caller is about as credible as CNN, The NY Times or NBC

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nbc-news-trump-robert-e-lee_us_5bc3813de4b0bd9ed55b2eda
So there are red facts and blue facts, are there?
Did Mayo win the 3 in a row on Fox ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 15, 2018, 09:50:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM
Attaboy whitey .... love the Daily Caller

The clip is the clip.....it's available on numerous sites. find one more to your liking if you don't like the Daily Caller

And for what it's worth, the Daily Caller is about as credible as CNN, The NY Times or NBC

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nbc-news-trump-robert-e-lee_us_5bc3813de4b0bd9ed55b2eda

I actually think Maher is right. . . political correctness is a load of bullshit and has gone too far and people who see others cave into twitter muppets and halfwits think the Dems are too soft.

So the astronaut quoted Churchill and Churchill was a ****. . . big deal why does there need to be an escapade for keyboard warriors to get him to take it down. The Cambridge thing of not honouring Rememberance Sunday because it glorifies war is also ridiculous as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 15, 2018, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: dec on October 15, 2018, 03:28:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM
Attaboy whitey .... love the Daily Caller

The clip is the clip.....it's available on numerous sites. find one more to your liking if you don't like the Daily Caller

And for what it's worth, the Daily Caller is about as credible as CNN, The NY Times or NBC

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nbc-news-trump-robert-e-lee_us_5bc3813de4b0bd9ed55b2eda


"NBC News has issued a correction "

You can tell that NBC is one of those liberal media outlets because it issues corrections. The conservative/right wing/conspiracy loon lot double down on the bullshit.

NBC selectively editing a Trump quite to make it appear he said something he didn't

NY Times a couple of weeks ago claiming Nikki Haley spent $50K on curtains when it was Obama

Fake news is real my friends. 

Neither of these were "mistakes". They were partisan hit jobs that had to be walked back

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 15, 2018, 10:31:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: dec on October 15, 2018, 03:28:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM
Attaboy whitey .... love the Daily Caller

The clip is the clip.....it's available on numerous sites. find one more to your liking if you don't like the Daily Caller

And for what it's worth, the Daily Caller is about as credible as CNN, The NY Times or NBC

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nbc-news-trump-robert-e-lee_us_5bc3813de4b0bd9ed55b2eda


"NBC News has issued a correction "

You can tell that NBC is one of those liberal media outlets because it issues corrections. The conservative/right wing/conspiracy loon lot double down on the bullshit.

NBC selectively editing a Trump quite to make it appear he said something he didn't

NY Times a couple of weeks ago claiming Nikki Haley spent $50K on curtains when it was Obama

Fake news is real my friends. 

Neither of these were "mistakes". They were partisan hit jobs that had to be walked back

2 examples. The plural of anecdote is not data.Trump lies on average 73 times per speech
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on October 15, 2018, 10:48:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 15, 2018, 10:31:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: dec on October 15, 2018, 03:28:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM
Attaboy whitey .... love the Daily Caller

The clip is the clip.....it's available on numerous sites. find one more to your liking if you don't like the Daily Caller

And for what it's worth, the Daily Caller is about as credible as CNN, The NY Times or NBC

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nbc-news-trump-robert-e-lee_us_5bc3813de4b0bd9ed55b2eda


"NBC News has issued a correction "

You can tell that NBC is one of those liberal media outlets because it issues corrections. The conservative/right wing/conspiracy loon lot double down on the bullshit.

NBC selectively editing a Trump quite to make it appear he said something he didn't

NY Times a couple of weeks ago claiming Nikki Haley spent $50K on curtains when it was Obama

Fake news is real my friends. 

Neither of these were "mistakes". They were partisan hit jobs that had to be walked back

2 examples. The plural of anecdote is not data.Trump lies on average 73 times per speech


But one lie or untruth undoes everything else irrespective of how many lies Trump tells.

There is no need for it as the man is a walking, talking bag of contradictions and lies depending on his audience.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 15, 2018, 10:56:48 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/01/president-trump-has-made-3251-false-or-misleading-claims-in-497-days/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2018, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 15, 2018, 10:56:48 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/01/president-trump-has-made-3251-false-or-misleading-claims-in-497-days/

But that doesn't bother the likes of these boys. Neither does the very real lies and distortion on policies left, right and center, with serious real world implications, from conservatives every day (witness their disgraceful, cynical response to the IPCC report last week, even as an unprecedented storm, once again, literally wiped out communities).

All they care about is that their side can be cast as victims of the dirty, nasty Democrats and their corrupt media allies. A correction here and a correction there are only proof that the real problem with the world is the "lamestream" media who has the temerity to call them out on their bullshit. Trump is cruelly (and with admitted intent) tearing wailing toddlers away from their parents at the border and shipping them across the country... who cares... all that really matters is that the libtard media, always out to get conservatives, were initially confused (before correcting the record) by a related story on losing track of kids placed with relatives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2018, 02:51:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 15, 2018, 09:50:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM
Attaboy whitey .... love the Daily Caller

The clip is the clip.....it's available on numerous sites. find one more to your liking if you don't like the Daily Caller

And for what it's worth, the Daily Caller is about as credible as CNN, The NY Times or NBC

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nbc-news-trump-robert-e-lee_us_5bc3813de4b0bd9ed55b2eda

I actually think Maher is right. . . political correctness is a load of bullshit and has gone too far and people who see others cave into twitter muppets and halfwits think the Dems are too soft.

So the astronaut quoted Churchill and Churchill was a ****. . . big deal why does there need to be an escapade for keyboard warriors to get him to take it down. The Cambridge thing of not honouring Rememberance Sunday because it glorifies war is also ridiculous as well.

Clearly political correctness can be taken too far (like anything can).

That doesn't mean it's ok to go back to the days when white men could abuse anyone and everyone else in any demeaning and offensive way they chose , as many of those who whine about this would like.

Kelly should simply have explained that while Churchill may have had offensive views on some things, as many of the time did, that does not erase the positive impacts his actions and words and leadership had on the world at one of the darkest points in history.

Rudolf Giuliani was and is a cynical, self-serving, narcissistic sc**bag. He still did a wonderful job, providing superb leadership, in the aftermath of 9/11.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2018, 04:23:03 PM
This is where we are now.

Quote"Federal Judge throws out Stormy Danials lawsuit versus Trump. Trump is entitled to full legal fees." @FoxNews Great, now I can go after Horseface and her 3rd rate lawyer in the Great State of Texas. She will confirm the letter she signed! She knows nothing about me, a total con!"

Calling a porn star he had unprotected sex with "Horseface"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 16, 2018, 07:30:22 PM
In response she called him Tiny, don't think she's talking about his hands
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2018, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

Fake news-they can cast provisional ballots (in Georgia)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 17, 2018, 02:56:31 AM
Whitey
You never let the facts get in way of your "tea party" talking points.
Go away and troll someone on whom you may have a chance of making an impression.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2018, 05:02:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

Fake news-they can cast provisional ballots (in Georgia)

The GOP candidate for governor personally oversees the purging of 50K+ voters off the rolls, most of them minorities, about 2% of the electorate, and its "fakes news" to report on it.

Nothing to see here, let's move on, just the dirty lamestream media victimizing the poor conservatives once again. Because everyone is going to go through all the fighting and hassle to make sure their provisional ballot is counted. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 17, 2018, 05:30:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2018, 05:02:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

Fake news-they can cast provisional ballots (in Georgia)

The GOP candidate for governor personally oversees the purging of 50K+ voters off the rolls, most of them minorities, about 2% of the electorate, and its "fakes news" to report on it.

Nothing to see here, let's move on, just the dirty lamestream media victimizing the poor conservatives once again. Because everyone is going to go through all the fighting and hassle to make sure their provisional ballot is counted. ::)

God bless them. The GOP, as usual, clutching their pearls as they shaft democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 17, 2018, 07:59:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2018, 05:02:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

Fake news-they can cast provisional ballots (in Georgia)

The GOP candidate for governor personally oversees the purging of 50K+ voters off the rolls, most of them minorities, about 2% of the electorate, and its "fakes news" to report on it.

Nothing to see here, let's move on, just the dirty lamestream media victimizing the poor conservatives once again. Because everyone is going to go through all the fighting and hassle to make sure their provisional ballot is counted. ::)
20% of voters in North Dakota who are native American have also been Gopped.
there aren't enough angry white voters for a majority so the denominator has to be reduced.

Texas is the gerrymandering capital of the world as well
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2018, 10:21:37 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 05:30:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2018, 05:02:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

Fake news-they can cast provisional ballots (in Georgia)

The GOP candidate for governor personally oversees the purging of 50K+ voters off the rolls, most of them minorities, about 2% of the electorate, and its "fakes news" to report on it.

Nothing to see here, let's move on, just the dirty lamestream media victimizing the poor conservatives once again. Because everyone is going to go through all the fighting and hassle to make sure their provisional ballot is counted. ::)

God bless them. The GOP, as usual, clutching their pearls as they shaft democracy.

Believe whatever you want.

https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/stacey-abrams-democratic-rival-casts-doubt-voter-registration-work/gq5WP7iraCxRyQPwFetjcO/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 17, 2018, 12:33:28 PM
In other news,

Elizabeth Warren thinks Donald trump lost a bet with her because her DNA test shows she may be 1/1024 native American.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/411633-media-embrace-of-warrens-1-1024th-heritage-an-epic-failure

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 17, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 15, 2018, 06:06:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 12:37:02 AM
https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/13/bill-maher-political-correctness-scott-kelly/

They've officially lost the plot. Not a lot of hope for mankind...........er...I mean humankind

WTF Whitey
The Daily Caller is a conservative American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C. It was founded by political pundit Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel in 2010.
Of course it's objective

The clip is from Bill Maher, an out and out liberal coastal Democrat. Did the Daily caller put words in his mouth or misrepresent what he said? He's been speaking out against political correctness for years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2018, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 17, 2018, 12:33:28 PM
In other news,

Elizabeth Warren thinks Donald trump lost a bet with her because her DNA test shows she may be 1/1024 native American.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/411633-media-embrace-of-warrens-1-1024th-heritage-an-epic-failure

I don't much about Warren's claims, beyond the media sensationalism.

What exactly did she claim regarding her supposed Native American ancestry way back when? That she was a tribe member? That she had some Indian blood?

She's an idiot for getting down in the gutter with Trump on this matter. If no one seems to give a shit about his personal extremely checkered past, then she should just brazen it out herself and move the f**k on, just like he does shamelessly does after every scandal that would have precipitate resignation in any other person. None of the half-wits who parrot the Pocahontas shite are ever going to vote for her anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 17, 2018, 04:48:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 17, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 15, 2018, 06:06:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 15, 2018, 12:37:02 AM
https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/13/bill-maher-political-correctness-scott-kelly/

They've officially lost the plot. Not a lot of hope for mankind...........er...I mean humankind

WTF Whitey
The Daily Caller is a conservative American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C. It was founded by political pundit Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel in 2010.
Of course it's objective

The clip is from Bill Maher, an out and out liberal coastal Democrat. Did the Daily caller put words in his mouth or misrepresent what he said? He's been speaking out against political correctness for years.

He was a victim of it himself after 9/11, questioning the narrative that the hijackers were cowards and then losing his show in the Fox-led "outrage" (ironically, the show was called "Politically Incorrect").

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 17, 2018, 05:19:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2018, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 17, 2018, 12:33:28 PM
In other news,

Elizabeth Warren thinks Donald trump lost a bet with her because her DNA test shows she may be 1/1024 native American.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/411633-media-embrace-of-warrens-1-1024th-heritage-an-epic-failure

I don't much about Warren's claims, beyond the media sensationalism.

What exactly did she claim regarding her supposed Native American ancestry way back when? That she was a tribe member? That she had some Indian blood?

She's an idiot for getting down in the gutter with Trump on this matter. If no one seems to give a shit about his personal extremely checkered past, then she should just brazen it out herself and move the f**k on, just like he does shamelessly does after every scandal that would have precipitate resignation in any other person. None of the half-wits who parrot the Pocahontas shite are ever going to vote for her anyway.

Throughout her law career when she registered as native American. This came up when Harvard Law came under pressure in 1996 for not having a diverse enough faculty, a native American ticks the boxes, even if she is whiter than white.

Or what about when she released and profited from a cookbook called "pow wow chow". Yes.... really.

She then released a DNA study which shows she actually has LESS native American DNA than the average north American, thinking nobody would notice, and to her credit many news sources quoted it as irrefutable proof of her ancestry.

t's a massive own goal on her part and will dog her through 2020 if she runs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 17, 2018, 05:41:07 PM
QuoteOr what about when she released and profited from a cookbook called "pow wow chow". Yes.... really.

No she didn't ... this is just an outright lie. She didn't release any book.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2018, 05:51:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 17, 2018, 05:41:07 PM
QuoteOr what about when she released and profited from a cookbook called "pow wow chow". Yes.... really.

No she didn't ... this is just an outright lie. She didn't release any book.

She didn't release a book, but she contributed some Native American  recipies to the book-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 17, 2018, 06:27:11 PM
So she didn't "release and profit from a cookbook called "pow wow chow"" then?

Glad you agree Tucker
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2018, 07:02:16 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 17, 2018, 06:27:11 PM
So she didn't "release and profit from a cookbook called "pow wow chow"" then?

Glad you agree Tucker

I have listened to Howie Carr every day for years. He makes fun of her every single day and just forced her to refile some tax returns based on an "omission"

He's the one who nicknamed her Fauxachintas .....Trump borrowed it from him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 17, 2018, 07:17:27 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 17, 2018, 06:27:11 PM
So she didn't "release and profit from a cookbook called "pow wow chow"" then?

Glad you agree Tucker

I take back that she "released" it. She did, however, contribute multiple recipes to it under "Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee"
For what it's worth her cousin released the book...Not sure that helps her much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2018, 08:37:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 17, 2018, 07:17:27 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 17, 2018, 06:27:11 PM
So she didn't "release and profit from a cookbook called "pow wow chow"" then?

Glad you agree Tucker

I take back that she "released" it. She did, however, contribute multiple recipes to it under "Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee"
For what it's worth her cousin released the book...Not sure that helps her much.

She's also accused of plagiarizing some of the recipies

Tune into Howie Carr if you want a good laugh-every day from 3-7 East Coast time

https://www.google.com/amp/s/howiecarrshow.com/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 17, 2018, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 10:21:37 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 05:30:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2018, 05:02:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

Fake news-they can cast provisional ballots (in Georgia)

The GOP candidate for governor personally oversees the purging of 50K+ voters off the rolls, most of them minorities, about 2% of the electorate, and its "fakes news" to report on it.

Nothing to see here, let's move on, just the dirty lamestream media victimizing the poor conservatives once again. Because everyone is going to go through all the fighting and hassle to make sure their provisional ballot is counted. ::)

God bless them. The GOP, as usual, clutching their pearls as they shaft democracy.

Believe whatever you want.

https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/stacey-abrams-democratic-rival-casts-doubt-voter-registration-work/gq5WP7iraCxRyQPwFetjcO/

Have you read that. What has a "dispute" between 2 Democrats  about the numbers of new voters they have registered got to do with Kemp suppressing the minority vote. if you ever come up with something on point and real I will be happy to acknowledge it. Now go back to your sophomoric name calling of Elizabeth Warren and keep missing the real story about the GOP driving the deficit through the roof.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2018, 10:44:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 10:21:37 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 05:30:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2018, 05:02:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

Fake news-they can cast provisional ballots (in Georgia)

The GOP candidate for governor personally oversees the purging of 50K+ voters off the rolls, most of them minorities, about 2% of the electorate, and its "fakes news" to report on it.

Nothing to see here, let's move on, just the dirty lamestream media victimizing the poor conservatives once again. Because everyone is going to go through all the fighting and hassle to make sure their provisional ballot is counted. ::)

God bless them. The GOP, as usual, clutching their pearls as they shaft democracy.

Believe whatever you want.

https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/stacey-abrams-democratic-rival-casts-doubt-voter-registration-work/gq5WP7iraCxRyQPwFetjcO/

Have you read that. What has a "dispute" between 2 Democrats  about the numbers of new voters they have registered got to do with Kemp suppressing the minority vote. if you ever come up with something on point and real I will be happy to acknowledge it. Now go back to your sophomoric name calling of Elizabeth Warren and keep missing the real story about the GOP driving the deficit through the roof.

A guy I've known for 20 years lives in Atlanta and his version of events goes along the lines of

The Democrats went on a big registration push over the past few years. They hired a bunch of people for $10-$12 per hour to go out and register people of color to vote . To get paid, they had certain quotas to hit, so they ended up with a sizable number of registrations that are duplicates or cannot be verified.  In short-garbage in, garbage out

If you had two brain cells to rub together and understood the article, her DEMOCRATIC primary opponent actually agreed with what my buddy told me. Many of the new registrations are garbage and that's why they have been flagged

But believe whatever you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 17, 2018, 11:20:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 10:44:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 10:21:37 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 05:30:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 17, 2018, 05:02:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 17, 2018, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

Fake news-they can cast provisional ballots (in Georgia)

The GOP candidate for governor personally oversees the purging of 50K+ voters off the rolls, most of them minorities, about 2% of the electorate, and its "fakes news" to report on it.

Nothing to see here, let's move on, just the dirty lamestream media victimizing the poor conservatives once again. Because everyone is going to go through all the fighting and hassle to make sure their provisional ballot is counted. ::)

God bless them. The GOP, as usual, clutching their pearls as they shaft democracy.

Believe whatever you want.

https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/stacey-abrams-democratic-rival-casts-doubt-voter-registration-work/gq5WP7iraCxRyQPwFetjcO/

Have you read that. What has a "dispute" between 2 Democrats  about the numbers of new voters they have registered got to do with Kemp suppressing the minority vote. if you ever come up with something on point and real I will be happy to acknowledge it. Now go back to your sophomoric name calling of Elizabeth Warren and keep missing the real story about the GOP driving the deficit through the roof.

A guy I've known for 20 years lives in Atlanta and his version of events goes along the lines of

The Democrats went on a big registration push over the past few years. They hired a bunch of people for $10-$12 per hour to go out and register people of color to vote . To get paid, they had certain quotas to hit, so they ended up with a sizable number of registrations that are duplicates or cannot be verified.  In short-garbage in, garbage out

If you had two brain cells to rub together and understood the article, her DEMOCRATIC primary opponent actually agreed with what my buddy told me. Many of the new registrations are garbage and that's why they have been flagged

But believe whatever you want


I did read the article and my interpretation is that Evans was saying Abrams new voter registration numbers are not as big as she (Abrams) was claiming. But then I don't have a guy in Atlanta (Would he be called O'Keeffe by chance) who can take my reading of the article to a place where voter suppression by Kemp is mitigated by the garbage in garbage out premise. BTW You did not have any comment about our soaring deficit? And instead of snarky comments about Elizabeth Warren talk to me about Mick Mulvaney's love affair with payday loan sharks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 17, 2018, 11:44:01 PM
I wasnt the one making snarky comments about Elizabeth Warren....that was someone else......I actually defended her. (I mentioned that shes accused of plagiarizing some of the recipies she submitted, but thats well known)

While I disagree with her on many things, I do actually agree with some of her ideas.  My big beef with her is from the time she was running against Scott Brown, the taxpayers of Massachusetts paid to have voter registration forms mailed to all welfare recipients in the state

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/Senate/2012/0810/Scott-Brown-to-Elizabeth-Warren-Pony-up-for-state-s-welfare-voter-drive


Deficit is a major issue, and there should have been no tax cuts until it was addressed.

Payday loans should be banned.....I watched a Netflix documentary about it

BTW....Im a registered Independent......Im not a Republican

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 17, 2018, 11:54:22 PM
You're a conundrum to me Whitey. But I do agree with you on many things. Hope the rest of your day is good. I am now going for a walk in Garza's Canyon to think about the Hills of Granemore. Cheers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 18, 2018, 02:02:52 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 11:54:22 PM
You're a conundrum to me Whitey. But I do agree with you on many things. Hope the rest of your day is good. I am now going for a walk in Garza's Canyon to think about the Hills of Granemore. Cheers

I actually dislike both parties equally.

Democrats need to get back to their roots-the party of the working people. There's no room in the modern Democratic Party for anyone who disagrees with any facet of their social agenda

The Republicans are just fvckin idiots. The likes of W, Sarah Palin and Trump are an embarrassment.

I'd love to see a split ticket next time round. Bloomberg/Sasse or Biden/Haley, Bernie/Condaleeza

Any Democrat who was part of the Kavanaugh debacle in now unelectable imho
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2018, 06:39:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2018, 02:02:52 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 11:54:22 PM
You're a conundrum to me Whitey. But I do agree with you on many things. Hope the rest of your day is good. I am now going for a walk in Garza's Canyon to think about the Hills of Granemore. Cheers

I actually dislike both parties equally.

Democrats need to get back to their roots-the party of the working people. There's no room in the modern Democratic Party for anyone who disagrees with any facet of their social agenda

The Republicans are just fvckin idiots. The likes of W, Sarah Palin and Trump are an embarrassment.

I'd love to see a split ticket next time round. Bloomberg/Sasse or Biden/Haley, Bernie/Condaleeza

Any Democrat who was part of the Kavanaugh debacle in now unelectable imho
I'll believe it when I see more links from the progressive and mother Jones than from youdecideyourownfacts.com


https://youtu.be/8rh6qqsmxNs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 20, 2018, 05:08:53 AM
You do have a point, Seafood. Whitey does choose questionable sources for his information. But despite that, every now and then he comes to a fair conclusion.
At the risk of provoking him though,  I think he fancies Hillary😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 21, 2018, 04:01:29 AM
OSU goose getting cooked. Never looked like a top 4 team all year. Loss of Bosa huge, but it's much more than that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 21, 2018, 06:27:43 AM
What's the board's 4 Chan view on nuclear proliferation? Can you believe whatever you want?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/20/trump-us-nuclear-arms-treaty-russia
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 21, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/10/20/result-ag_conservative-digs-into-a-bogus-wapo-story-about-kavanaugh-that-had-to-be-corrected/

Washington Post = Fake News
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 21, 2018, 10:45:50 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 21, 2018, 04:01:29 AM
OSU goose getting cooked. Never looked like a top 4 team all year. Loss of Bosa huge, but it's much more than that.
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/10/20/result-ag_conservative-digs-into-a-bogus-wapo-story-about-kavanaugh-that-had-to-be-corrected/

Washington Post = Fake News

Do the Post issue more corrections than other news organizations?

Given your obsession with supposed media bias against conservatives, you have some data and statistics handy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 22, 2018, 02:45:29 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

When you get some time out from The Mockingbird Media try and have a listen to CIA whistleblower Kevin Shipp. The only item he is incorrect about is the Chinese Yuan becoming the reserved currency. China is in for a big fall which we will hear more of after the mid terms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 22, 2018, 07:09:57 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 22, 2018, 02:45:29 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

When you get some time out from The Mockingbird Media try and have a listen to CIA whistleblower Kevin Shipp. The only item he is incorrect about is the Chinese Yuan becoming the reserved currency. China is in for a big fall which we will hear more of after the mid terms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0)

Seamus.. ordinarily I would not respond to a conspiracy theorist offering up a conspiracy theory to validate his conspiracy theory. However because I was born only a few miles from the place that St Malachi made his prophesies and I am a firm believer that the yellow man will one day water his horse in Lough Neagh, you just might be right about the big Chinese fall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on October 22, 2018, 10:48:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2018, 02:02:52 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 11:54:22 PM
You're a conundrum to me Whitey. But I do agree with you on many things. Hope the rest of your day is good. I am now going for a walk in Garza's Canyon to think about the Hills of Granemore. Cheers

I actually dislike both parties equally.

Democrats need to get back to their roots-the party of the working people. There's no room in the modern Democratic Party for anyone who disagrees with any facet of their social agenda

The Republicans are just fvckin idiots. The likes of W, Sarah Palin and Trump are an embarrassment.

I'd love to see a split ticket next time round. Bloomberg/Sasse or Biden/Haley, Bernie/Condaleeza

Any Democrat who was part of the Kavanaugh debacle in now unelectable imho

Here mate do you think people are completely stupid and are going to swallow bollocks like this from a knob like you. 

You are constantly on here criticising the Dems using the exact language of muppets like Trump, Palin et al to do so. At least have the cojones to admit what you really are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2018, 12:15:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2018, 10:45:50 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 21, 2018, 04:01:29 AM
OSU goose getting cooked. Never looked like a top 4 team all year. Loss of Bosa huge, but it's much more than that.
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/10/20/result-ag_conservative-digs-into-a-bogus-wapo-story-about-kavanaugh-that-had-to-be-corrected/

Washington Post = Fake News

Do the Post issue more corrections than other news organizations?

Given your obsession with supposed media bias against conservatives, you have some data and statistics handy?

Corrections indicate a mistake......in this instance we have an outright lie.

The NY Times hit piece on Nikke Haley a couple of weeks ago was an outright lie

Theyre playing straight unto Trumps hands.

I dont expect them to be without bias, but for the love of God can they not see how printing $hite like this undermines all the other work they do


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 12:15:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2018, 10:45:50 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 21, 2018, 04:01:29 AM
OSU goose getting cooked. Never looked like a top 4 team all year. Loss of Bosa huge, but it's much more than that.
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/10/20/result-ag_conservative-digs-into-a-bogus-wapo-story-about-kavanaugh-that-had-to-be-corrected/

Washington Post = Fake News

Do the Post issue more corrections than other news organizations?

Given your obsession with supposed media bias against conservatives, you have some data and statistics handy?

Corrections indicate a mistake......in this instance we have an outright lie.

The NY Times hit piece on Nikke Haley a couple of weeks ago was an outright lie

Theyre playing straight unto Trumps hands.

I dont expect them to be without bias, but for the love of God can they not see how printing $hite like this undermines all the other work they do
How many articles does the Wapo print every week.Whitey?
What's your sample size for lying institutions ? how many lies do you need for the decision to be statistically significant ?
You definitely have enough for Trump but I am struggling to see how you make the case for the newspapers.

Throw up your spreadsheet when you have next break from 4Chan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2018, 01:05:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 12:15:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2018, 10:45:50 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 21, 2018, 04:01:29 AM
OSU goose getting cooked. Never looked like a top 4 team all year. Loss of Bosa huge, but it's much more than that.
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/10/20/result-ag_conservative-digs-into-a-bogus-wapo-story-about-kavanaugh-that-had-to-be-corrected/

Washington Post = Fake News

Do the Post issue more corrections than other news organizations?

Given your obsession with supposed media bias against conservatives, you have some data and statistics handy?

Corrections indicate a mistake......in this instance we have an outright lie.

The NY Times hit piece on Nikke Haley a couple of weeks ago was an outright lie

Theyre playing straight unto Trumps hands.

I dont expect them to be without bias, but for the love of God can they not see how printing $hite like this undermines all the other work they do
How many articles does the Wapo print every week.Whitey?
What's your sample size for lying institutions ? how many lies do you need for the decision to be statistically significant ?
You definitely have enough for Trump but I am struggling to see how you make the case for the newspapers.

Throw up your spreadsheet when you have next break from 4Chan.

Believe whatever you want

A majority of Republicans, Independents AND DEMOCRATS believe  "traditional major news sources report news they know to be fake, false, or purposely misleading," according to a new poll from Axios and SurveyMonkey released on Thursday.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/394352-poll-72-percent-say-traditional-outlets-report-news-they-know-to-be-fake-false%3famp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 01:23:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 01:05:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 12:15:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2018, 10:45:50 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 21, 2018, 04:01:29 AM
OSU goose getting cooked. Never looked like a top 4 team all year. Loss of Bosa huge, but it's much more than that.
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/10/20/result-ag_conservative-digs-into-a-bogus-wapo-story-about-kavanaugh-that-had-to-be-corrected/

Washington Post = Fake News

Do the Post issue more corrections than other news organizations?

Given your obsession with supposed media bias against conservatives, you have some data and statistics handy?

Corrections indicate a mistake......in this instance we have an outright lie.

The NY Times hit piece on Nikke Haley a couple of weeks ago was an outright lie

Theyre playing straight unto Trumps hands.

I dont expect them to be without bias, but for the love of God can they not see how printing $hite like this undermines all the other work they do
How many articles does the Wapo print every week.Whitey?
What's your sample size for lying institutions ? how many lies do you need for the decision to be statistically significant ?
You definitely have enough for Trump but I am struggling to see how you make the case for the newspapers.

Throw up your spreadsheet when you have next break from 4Chan.

Believe whatever you want

A majority of Republicans, Independents AND DEMOCRATS believe  "traditional major news sources report news they know to be fake, false, or purposely misleading," according to a new poll from Axios and SurveyMonkey released on Thursday.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/394352-poll-72-percent-say-traditional-outlets-report-news-they-know-to-be-fake-false%3famp
What percentage of print news is fake?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
I don't know and don't care

Enough if it is fake to seriously damage their credibility and force people to look elsewhere for their information.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 22, 2018, 02:03:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 22, 2018, 07:09:57 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 22, 2018, 02:45:29 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

When you get some time out from The Mockingbird Media try and have a listen to CIA whistleblower Kevin Shipp. The only item he is incorrect about is the Chinese Yuan becoming the reserved currency. China is in for a big fall which we will hear more of after the mid terms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0)

Seamus.. ordinarily I would not respond to a conspiracy theorist offering up a conspiracy theory to validate his conspiracy theory. However because I was born only a few miles from the place that St Malachi made his prophesies and I am a firm believer that the yellow man will one day water his horse in Lough Neagh, you just might be right about the big Chinese fall.

Haha, the lazy conspiracy theory labeling yet again from a useful idiot.  Are the official government fairytales on 911 and global warming, sorry climate change, etc not conspiracy theories? Sure they are. Therefore you are the conspiracy theorist, I am a conspiracy realist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 02:20:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
I don't know and don't care

Enough if it is fake to seriously damage their credibility and force people to look elsewhere for their information.
Very poor, Fakey
Surely you can do better than that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on October 22, 2018, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 22, 2018, 02:03:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 22, 2018, 07:09:57 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 22, 2018, 02:45:29 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

When you get some time out from The Mockingbird Media try and have a listen to CIA whistleblower Kevin Shipp. The only item he is incorrect about is the Chinese Yuan becoming the reserved currency. China is in for a big fall which we will hear more of after the mid terms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0)

Seamus.. ordinarily I would not respond to a conspiracy theorist offering up a conspiracy theory to validate his conspiracy theory. However because I was born only a few miles from the place that St Malachi made his prophesies and I am a firm believer that the yellow man will one day water his horse in Lough Neagh, you just might be right about the big Chinese fall.

Haha, the lazy conspiracy theory labeling yet again from a useful idiot.  Are the official government fairytales on 911 and global warming, sorry climate change, etc not conspiracy theories? Sure they are. Therefore you are the conspiracy theorist, I am a conspiracy realist.


I wish there was a vaccine preventing susceptibility to lunatic conspiracy theories. But then .... ah forget it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2018, 02:39:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 02:20:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
I don't know and don't care

Enough if it is fake to seriously damage their credibility and force people to look elsewhere for their information.
Very poor, Fakey
Surely you can do better than that

53% of Democrats and 79% of Independents agree with me, but keep it up.    Believe whatever you want.  Trump and Brexit weren't an accident you know....a lot of people.   I guess we'll find out about the blue wave in a couple of weeks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 02:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 02:39:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 02:20:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
I don't know and don't care

Enough if it is fake to seriously damage their credibility and force people to look elsewhere for their information.
Very poor, Fakey
Surely you can do better than that

53% of Democrats and 79% of Independents agree with me, but keep it up.    Believe whatever you want.  Trump and Brexit weren't an accident you know....a lot of people.   I guess we'll find out about the blue wave in a couple of weeks
53% of Democrats believe what?
That rush Limbaugh and the NYT are equals?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2018, 02:51:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 02:39:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 02:20:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
I don't know and don't care

Enough if it is fake to seriously damage their credibility and force people to look elsewhere for their information.
Very poor, Fakey
Surely you can do better than that

53% of Democrats and 79% of Independents agree with me, but keep it up.    Believe whatever you want.  Trump and Brexit weren't an accident you know....a lot of people.   I guess we'll find out about the blue wave in a couple of weeks

What does the outcome of the election have to do with anything?

YOU never stop whining about fake news and the "lamestream" media, yet when asked to present some relevant data to back up your bellyaching, you say don't know and don't care.

As to the irrelevent perception data, a good percentage of Americans believe in creationism, including Bishop Ussher's 6000 year old earth claim. Does that render all the independent lines of evidence leading to the same conclusion of life evolving on an extremely long-lived planet as false?

The white people of the southern states believed that black people were inferior and potentially dangerous and operated a society where racial discrimination and persecution were the dominant legal and cultural forces. Did the numbers render their bigoted, evil outlook as valid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 02:57:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2018, 02:51:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 02:39:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 02:20:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 01:59:57 PMI don't know and don't care

Enough if it is fake to seriously damage their credibility and force people to look elsewhere for their information.
Very poor, Fakey

Surely you can do better than that

53% of Democrats and 79% of Independents agree with me, but keep it up.    Believe whatever you want.  Trump and Brexit weren't an accident you know....a lot of people.   I guess we'll find out about the blue wave in a couple of weeks

What does the outcome of the election have to do with anything?

YOU never stop whining about fake news and the "lamestream" media, yet when asked to present some relevant data to back up your bellyaching, you say don't know and don't care.

As to the irrelevent perception data, a good percentage of Americans believe in creationism, including Bishop Ussher's 6000 year old earth claim. Does that render all the independent lines of evidence leading to the same conclusion of life evolving on an extremely long-lived planet as false?

The white people of the southern states believed that black people were inferior and potentially dangerous and operated a society where racial discrimination and persecution were the dominant legal and cultural forces. Did the numbers render their bigoted, evil outlook as valid?
"The Press lie all the time"  was a line of thinking promoted by the Nazis. Goebbels used to refer to the press as the lying Press.
Sad day for the GOP when it apes the Nazis.
Very sad day for Mayo. God help us
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2018, 03:00:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 02:43:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 02:39:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 02:20:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
I don't know and don't care

Enough if it is fake to seriously damage their credibility and force people to look elsewhere for their information.
Very poor, Fakey
Surely you can do better than that

53% of Democrats and 79% of Independents agree with me, but keep it up.    Believe whatever you want.  Trump and Brexit weren't an accident you know....a lot of people.   I guess we'll find out about the blue wave in a couple of weeks
53% of Democrats believe what?
That rush Limbaugh and the NYT are equals?

I already put up the link to the survey

53% of Democrats and 79% of Independents believe  "traditional major news sources report news they know to be fake, false, or purposely misleading,". 

People believe whatever they want. Rush is a liar and The NY Times prints lies. One does it sometimes, the other does it quite often. NYT lies almost exclusively to make Republicans look bad, the other lies almost exclusively to make Democrats look bad. I am as skeptical about anything Rush says about a Democrat as what the NYT says about a Republican. They both have an agenda

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 22, 2018, 03:34:55 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 22, 2018, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 22, 2018, 02:03:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 22, 2018, 07:09:57 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 22, 2018, 02:45:29 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 17, 2018, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 15, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 14, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
The GOP think climate change is a Chinese hoax

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

I wonder what the lads in the Gaaboard 4 Chan think.

Fear mongering at it's very best, lets legally spray the skies, block off the dreaded sun and introduce a worldwide carbon tax along with greater control of the people.

The real cause of the Californian fires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWvuPcurB6Q)
What about the floods in Florida? Another Soros conspiracy ?

It's a small wonder that Soros has not won a Nobel Peace Prize already along with warmongers Kissinger and Obama and hoaxer Al Gore.
They would make ideal members of "The Party".

You need to get off those conspiracy sites and go for a long walk. . You could concentrate on something real like voter suppression.

When you get some time out from The Mockingbird Media try and have a listen to CIA whistleblower Kevin Shipp. The only item he is incorrect about is the Chinese Yuan becoming the reserved currency. China is in for a big fall which we will hear more of after the mid terms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5NW9KcMt0)

Seamus.. ordinarily I would not respond to a conspiracy theorist offering up a conspiracy theory to validate his conspiracy theory. However because I was born only a few miles from the place that St Malachi made his prophesies and I am a firm believer that the yellow man will one day water his horse in Lough Neagh, you just might be right about the big Chinese fall.

Haha, the lazy conspiracy theory labeling yet again from a useful idiot.  Are the official government fairytales on 911 and global warming, sorry climate change, etc not conspiracy theories? Sure they are. Therefore you are the conspiracy theorist, I am a conspiracy realist.


I wish there was a vaccine preventing susceptibility to lunatic conspiracy theories. But then .... ah forget it.
Ah now Hardy, he is funnier than Olly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 22, 2018, 04:37:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 03:00:34 PM

Rush is a liar and The NY Times prints lies.

yes, nuclear bombs give off radiation and so do the fluorescent hands on a watch
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2018, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 22, 2018, 04:37:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 03:00:34 PM

Rush is a liar and The NY Times prints lies.

yes, nuclear bombs give off radiation and so do the fluorescent hands on a watch

Exactly.....lies coming from a "trusted" publication like the NYT are way more harmful than lies coming from a recognized crank such as Rush
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 04:59:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 22, 2018, 04:37:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 03:00:34 PM

Rush is a liar and The NY Times prints lies.

yes, nuclear bombs give off radiation and so do the fluorescent hands on a watch

Exactly.....lies coming from a "trusted" publication like the NYT are way more harmful than lies coming from a recognized crank such as Rush
Tucker and the rest of the Fox crew feed the GOP echo chamber. There is a parallel reality in the red states and it isn't even vaguely sustainable, Whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on October 22, 2018, 05:19:04 PM
I feel that the Dems may be having another Hilary moment and are sleep walking again.  Everyone love a tough leader.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2018, 05:27:34 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 22, 2018, 05:19:04 PM
I feel that the Dems may be having another Hilary moment and are sleep walking again.  Everyone love a tough leader.

I think they believe their own hype and actually think the vast majority of voters agree with them

The majority probably do (not vast majority) but the Republicans are the ones who seem more likely to vote.

If youre a minority how exactly did life improve for you under 8 years of Obama????

If youre a white independent conservative, your taxes have gone down, your 401k has gone up and your house has appreciated under two years of Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 06:19:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 05:27:34 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 22, 2018, 05:19:04 PM
I feel that the Dems may be having another Hilary moment and are sleep walking again.  Everyone love a tough leader.

I think they believe their own hype and actually think the vast majority of voters agree with them

The majority probably do (not vast majority) but the Republicans are the ones who seem more likely to vote.

If youre a minority how exactly did life improve for you under 8 years of Obama????

If youre a white independent conservative, your taxes have gone down, your 401k has gone up and your house has appreciated under two years of Trump
401k only counts the day you retire

The GOP cut taxes under Bush and Trump. Without them the budget would be balanced.
Deficits count when there is a crash. The US is like the late Roman Empire at this stage. The next crash will be brutal because the deficit will make it harder to borrow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 22, 2018, 06:38:08 PM

If youre a white independent conservative, your taxes have gone down, your 401k has gone up and your house has appreciated under two years of Trump

Obama did that for 8 years straight. But he's not white ....so it does not count.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2018, 06:43:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2018, 06:19:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 05:27:34 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 22, 2018, 05:19:04 PM
I feel that the Dems may be having another Hilary moment and are sleep walking again.  Everyone love a tough leader.

I think they believe their own hype and actually think the vast majority of voters agree with them

The majority probably do (not vast majority) but the Republicans are the ones who seem more likely to vote.

If youre a minority how exactly did life improve for you under 8 years of Obama????

If youre a white independent conservative, your taxes have gone down, your 401k has gone up and your house has appreciated under two years of Trump
401k only counts the day you retire

The GOP cut taxes under Bush and Trump. Without them the budget would be balanced.
Deficits count when there is a crash. The US is like the late Roman Empire at this stage. The next crash will be brutal because the deficit will make it harder to borrow.

Don't disagree entirely

Everyone I know (in my business) is banking as much as they can right now.

(On another note I had lunch with a guy last week-his health insurance premiums will be $44k next year with a $10K deductible. He currently has 3 kids in college, pays close to $10k in property tax and has 5 vehicles on the road)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 22, 2018, 06:51:05 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 22, 2018, 06:38:08 PM

If youre a white independent conservative, your taxes have gone down, your 401k has gone up and your house has appreciated under two years of Trump

Obama did that for 8 years straight. But he's not white ....so it does not count.

Nice attempt at playing the race card

I said a large slice of who the Dems rely on for votes saw no improvement in their situation under 8 years of Obama so may not be moivated to vote.

My taxes did not go down under Obama.

My 401k went up, but it has skyrocketed under Trump.

But believe whatever you want and continue viewing everything through the race lens.....it's worked out real well for you so far!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
How should the approaching caravan of 10/15k from Central America be dealt with ? Any thoughts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 22, 2018, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
How should the approaching caravan of 10/15k from Central America be dealt with ? Any thoughts
I'd say the numbers are closer to 5K than 10K.
It's unreal the expectations other people have one america. If 1000 people landed into the docks at cork tomorrow demanding entry, the country would have a fit. At least if they weren't part of the popular minorities maybe....

There's nothing America can do. How do you stop them. It's the perfect storm at mid-term. You cna't shoot them, you cna't hurt or injure them. You can stop them, round them up, but where? And how do you detain them in perfect conditions that won't cause outcry? If you let them lose on the streets what do you think will happen - mayhem.... what a world we live in now where people are unwittingly being used as political bait on all sides
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2018, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
How should the approaching caravan of 10/15k from Central America be dealt with ? Any thoughts

Let the CBP do their job. Process the asylum claims.

(Unless they're approaching like a battalion of marines, as Trump would have his supporters believe).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 22, 2018, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2018, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
How should the approaching caravan of 10/15k from Central America be dealt with ? Any thoughts

Let the CBP do their job. Process the asylum claims.

(Unless they're approaching like a battalion of marines, as Trump would have his supporters believe).
how do you process a group that large?
how do you house them in the meantime? where?
I think no matter how this is dealt with the administration will look bad. There's no easy or entirely adequate way to handle this based on the sheer volume of people and the resulting cost and strain on resources.... its a lose:lose situation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2018, 12:24:47 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 22, 2018, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2018, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
How should the approaching caravan of 10/15k from Central America be dealt with ? Any thoughts

Let the CBP do their job. Process the asylum claims.

(Unless they're approaching like a battalion of marines, as Trump would have his supporters believe).
how do you process a group that large?
how do you house them in the meantime? where?
I think no matter how this is dealt with the administration will look bad. There's no easy or entirely adequate way to handle this based on the sheer volume of people and the resulting cost and strain on resources.... its a lose:lose situation

Not for Trump.

He is trying to whip up hysteria for political purposes.

And if he really gave a f**k, he has time to get organized to handle things somewhat humanely, in concert with the Mexicans and the State of Texas. Unfortunately he just wants a political football so he win the election.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 23, 2018, 12:42:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2018, 12:24:47 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 22, 2018, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2018, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
How should the approaching caravan of 10/15k from Central America be dealt with ? Any thoughts

Let the CBP do their job. Process the asylum claims.

(Unless they're approaching like a battalion of marines, as Trump would have his supporters believe).
how do you process a group that large?
how do you house them in the meantime? where?
I think no matter how this is dealt with the administration will look bad. There's no easy or entirely adequate way to handle this based on the sheer volume of people and the resulting cost and strain on resources.... its a lose:lose situation

Not for Trump.

He is trying to whip up hysteria for political purposes.

And if he really gave a f**k, he has time to get organized to handle things somewhat humanely, in concert with the Mexicans and the State of Texas. Unfortunately he just wants a political football so he win the election.

It Won't sit well in TX or AZ. While they were trending Red already, this might be the nail in the coffin for O Rourke and Sinema, all but handing Republicans the Senate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 23, 2018, 01:09:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2018, 12:24:47 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 22, 2018, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2018, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
How should the approaching caravan of 10/15k from Central America be dealt with ? Any thoughts

Let the CBP do their job. Process the asylum claims.

(Unless they're approaching like a battalion of marines, as Trump would have his supporters believe).
how do you process a group that large?
how do you house them in the meantime? where?
I think no matter how this is dealt with the administration will look bad. There's no easy or entirely adequate way to handle this based on the sheer volume of people and the resulting cost and strain on resources.... its a lose:lose situation

Not for Trump.

He is trying to whip up hysteria for political purposes.

And if he really gave a f**k, he has time to get organized to handle things somewhat humanely, in concert with the Mexicans and the State of Texas. Unfortunately he just wants a political football so he win the election.
Trump wants to isolate Iran via sanctions. This means taking Iranian oil off the market. The oil price has been rising as a result. The Saudis have to step in to replace Iran's contribution. Khashoggi might get in the way. The poorest 40% of Americans already got no benefit from their tax cut due to gas rises. Do you cut back on beer or the kids new gear. It's a big decision in a town called malice for the midterms.
If oil goes to $100 it is going to hit Trumpland in the nuts.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2018, 01:25:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 23, 2018, 12:42:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2018, 12:24:47 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 22, 2018, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2018, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
How should the approaching caravan of 10/15k from Central America be dealt with ? Any thoughts

Let the CBP do their job. Process the asylum claims.

(Unless they're approaching like a battalion of marines, as Trump would have his supporters believe).
how do you process a group that large?
how do you house them in the meantime? where?
I think no matter how this is dealt with the administration will look bad. There's no easy or entirely adequate way to handle this based on the sheer volume of people and the resulting cost and strain on resources.... its a lose:lose situation

Not for Trump.

He is trying to whip up hysteria for political purposes.

And if he really gave a f**k, he has time to get organized to handle things somewhat humanely, in concert with the Mexicans and the State of Texas. Unfortunately he just wants a political football so he win the election.

It Won't sit well in TX or AZ. While they were trending Red already, this might be the nail in the coffin for O Rourke and Sinema, all but handing Republicans the Senate

The Senate is not changing hands.

I'll be delighted if Tester holds on. Need more like him in the Senate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 23, 2018, 03:47:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 06:51:05 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 22, 2018, 06:38:08 PM

If youre a white independent conservative, your taxes have gone down, your 401k has gone up and your house has appreciated under two years of Trump

Obama did that for 8 years straight. But he's not white ....so it does not count.

Nice attempt at playing the race card
Whitey.. White conservative who's playing race card.

I said a large slice of who the Dems rely on for votes saw no improvement in their situation under 8 years of Obama so may not be moivated to vote.

My taxes did not go down under Obama.
Cannot speak for you but everyone else's did.

My 401k went up, but it has skyrocketed under Trump.
If you had a 401k in 2008 and still have it, then it increased substantially more under Obama than it did under Trump. If you are smart you will readjust it real soon. When the market comes off the Trump GOP "Sugar high" it is on currently it will retrench substantially.

But believe whatever you want and continue viewing everything through the race lens.....it's worked out real well for you so far!
Do not understand what you are talking about here. If you are referring to my admiration for a decent smart President who drove the US out of the economic ditch that the GOP drove it into I don't think I'm the one looking through a race lens.
And don't be coming back at me with your not GOP when every thing you spout is straight out of their hymnal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 23, 2018, 06:02:26 AM
Any of our American based posters been up to Westchester County lately?

QuoteAn explosive device was found on Monday near the Westchester County home of George Soros, the billionaire philanthropist who is a favorite target of right-wing groups, according to a law enforcement official.

The device did not explode on its own, and bomb squad technicians "proactively detonated" it, the official said.

Federal and state law enforcement officials responded to the scene in Katonah, N.Y., a hamlet in the upscale town of Bedford in northern Westchester.

The Bedford Police Department and the Westchester County Department of Public Safety said Monday night that they were investigating at that location. The police declined to answer questions but said that a hazardous device unit had been requested.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 23, 2018, 06:49:44 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 23, 2018, 06:02:26 AM
Any of our American based posters been up to Westchester County lately?

QuoteAn explosive device was found on Monday near the Westchester County home of George Soros, the billionaire philanthropist who is a favorite target of right-wing groups, according to a law enforcement official.

The device did not explode on its own, and bomb squad technicians "proactively detonated" it, the official said.

Federal and state law enforcement officials responded to the scene in Katonah, N.Y., a hamlet in the upscale town of Bedford in northern Westchester.

The Bedford Police Department and the Westchester County Department of Public Safety said Monday night that they were investigating at that location. The police declined to answer questions but said that a hazardous device unit had been requested.

I'm sure Whitey has his alibi sorted out!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 23, 2018, 07:47:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 06:51:05 PM

My taxes did not go down under Obama.

My 401k went up, but it has skyrocketed under Trump.
If that were actually true you might need a new accountant and a financial advisor.

How the hell have your taxes gone down under Trump? How much capital have you? Mustn't work for a living, that must be nice..

I do agree with you about the Dems sleep walking, this race is far from won. Remember all politics are local and people believe whatever they want, and what they believe is very rarely the truth, especially in this clowns presidency.

John Cheese made some good points today about the witless evangelists, but then again, that arguing with religious fanatics using reason and logic, which is a fools errand...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on October 23, 2018, 08:49:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
How should the approaching caravan of 10/15k from Central America be dealt with ? Any thoughts

Surely the wall is built by now😳
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 23, 2018, 09:10:08 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2018, 07:47:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 06:51:05 PM

My taxes did not go down under Obama.

My 401k went up, but it has skyrocketed under Trump.
If that were actually true you might need a new accountant and a financial advisor.

How the hell have your taxes gone down under Trump? How much capital have you? Mustn't work for a living, that must be nice..

I do agree with you about the Dems sleep walking, this race is far from won. Remember all politics are local and people believe whatever they want, and what they believe is very rarely the truth, especially in this clowns presidency.

John Cheese made some good points today about the witless evangelists, but then again, that arguing with religious fanatics using reason and logic, which is a fools errand...

For starters all indications from my accountant tell me that I won't get clobbered by AMT this year.

Here are the changes proposed for 2018. 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/dec/19/who-wins-and-who-loses-tax-bill/

Believe what you want



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 23, 2018, 11:49:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 23, 2018, 09:10:08 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2018, 07:47:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2018, 06:51:05 PM

My taxes did not go down under Obama.

My 401k went up, but it has skyrocketed under Trump.
If that were actually true you might need a new accountant and a financial advisor.

How the hell have your taxes gone down under Trump? How much capital have you? Mustn't work for a living, that must be nice..

I do agree with you about the Dems sleep walking, this race is far from won. Remember all politics are local and people believe whatever they want, and what they believe is very rarely the truth, especially in this clowns presidency.

John Cheese made some good points today about the witless evangelists, but then again, that arguing with religious fanatics using reason and logic, which is a fools errand...

For starters all indications from my accountant tell me that I won't get clobbered by AMT this year.

Here are the changes proposed for 2018. 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/dec/19/who-wins-and-who-loses-tax-bill/

Believe what you want
Is climate change a matter of opinion ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 23, 2018, 02:24:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 23, 2018, 06:49:44 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 23, 2018, 06:02:26 AM
Any of our American based posters been up to Westchester County lately?

QuoteAn explosive device was found on Monday near the Westchester County home of George Soros, the billionaire philanthropist who is a favorite target of right-wing groups, according to a law enforcement official.

The device did not explode on its own, and bomb squad technicians "proactively detonated" it, the official said.

Federal and state law enforcement officials responded to the scene in Katonah, N.Y., a hamlet in the upscale town of Bedford in northern Westchester.

The Bedford Police Department and the Westchester County Department of Public Safety said Monday night that they were investigating at that location. The police declined to answer questions but said that a hazardous device unit had been requested.

I'm sure Whitey has his alibi sorted out!

Wasn't me officer.  Believe what you want.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 23, 2018, 04:49:23 PM
Ah, so you assume that your taxes will be less is what you're saying?

And that sky rocketing 401k?

What's your sectoral bias, military supplies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 23, 2018, 05:58:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2018, 04:49:23 PM
Ah, so you assume that your taxes will be less is what you're saying?

And that sky rocketing 401k?

What's your sectoral bias, military supplies?

According to my accountant of 20 years.....yes, I will likely avoid or have significantly reduced AMT in 2018. 

And he is a CPA and has over 35 years experience doing taxes

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fool.com/amp/taxes/2018/02/05/how-the-alternative-minimum-tax-is-changing-in-201.aspx
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 08:33:35 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 23, 2018, 04:49:23 PM
Ah, so you assume that your taxes will be less is what you're saying?

And that sky rocketing 401k?

What's your sectoral bias, military supplies?

https://www.bis.org/publ/work155.pdf

"Credit crunches occur with a fixed probability. When they do occur their effect is to lower the level of supply in the economy. One rationalisation for this could be that a credit crunch leads to
bankruptcies and the necessary administration or reorganisation of the firm's assets absorbs resources. Another could be that firms need access to working capital within the period in order to pay
their workers, buy inputs, etc. If firms cannot get access to the required working capital then their supply will necessarily be curtailed. So in effect a credit crunch is treated as a negative shock to total factor productivity, though it reflects events in financial markets rather than a change in the technical capabilities of the economy.
Moreover, if a credit crunch does occur, it is assumed to be more severe the higher the level of overall debt outstanding.  The severity of the credit crunch is assumed to depend on the debt-output ratio"


The S&P fell from 1500 or so to 660 in 08/09
The fall will be bigger next time

Whitey reminds me of a quote by Frank Zappa - "be a loyal plastic robot for a world that doesn't care"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
I see the Democrats have sent Obama and Hillary suspect packages in the post to try and energise their base ahead of the Mid Terms . . . False Flag people don't fall for it they want open borders and mobs stay strong!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2018, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
I see the Democrats have sent Obama and Hillary suspect packages in the post to try and energise their base ahead of the Mid Terms . . . False Flag people don't fall for it they want open borders and mobs stay strong!!!

Soros too.

But I think you are right that that will be how this story will eventually be treated on the right. Might take a few days, but they'll start to slip it in there, maybe using Trump's patented "people are/everyone is saying..." once Infowars or WND or Gateway Pundit or the like break the ice.

Between the Democrats starting up the caravan and doing fake targeting of their leaders to make the right look bad, Trump should have more than enough to prevail in the elections.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 24, 2018, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
I see the Democrats have sent Obama and Hillary suspect packages in the post to try and energise their base ahead of the Mid Terms . . . False Flag people don't fall for it they want open borders and mobs stay strong!!!

Trumps reaction to this could determine how the midterms go for him. Needs to condemn it outright.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 24, 2018, 03:28:26 PM
Democrats produce mobs

Republicans produce jobs

MAGA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: The Iceman on October 24, 2018, 03:31:07 PM
went for my citizenship test yesterday....talking to the officer there she said the swear in 100 citizens a week and approximately 5,000 a year. That's one small city in Florida. I read up on it and there's between 700,000 and 1million people on average added every year across the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 03:37:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2018, 03:28:26 PM
Democrats produce mobs

Republicans produce jobs

MAGA
Mayo are gormless again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 03:38:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 24, 2018, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
I see the Democrats have sent Obama and Hillary suspect packages in the post to try and energise their base ahead of the Mid Terms . . . False Flag people don't fall for it they want open borders and mobs stay strong!!!

Trumps reaction to this could determine how the midterms go for him. Needs to condemn it outright.
Trump is touring the country stoking up fear because tax cuts and his healthcare flop have no traction
The GOP used to be a conservative party. Imagine what Reagan would say if he came back for a look
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 24, 2018, 03:42:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 03:37:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2018, 03:28:26 PM
Democrats produce mobs

Republicans produce jobs

MAGA
Mayo are gormless again

Good one

I have officially given up on them. I couldn't take any more heartbreak
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:42:53 PM
CNN has just been evacuated . . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 24, 2018, 03:49:18 PM
this is a fascinating piece in the Journal today, and I think that this outlines the thinking on the view of the centrist, and in my opinion, also shows that the blue wave is a complete pipe dream:

From the Journal and written by David Gelernter who is computer science professor at Yale and chief scientist at Dittach LLC.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-real-reason-they-hate-trump-1540148467

Every big U.S. election is interesting, but the coming midterms are fascinating for a reason most commentators forget to mention: The Democrats have no issues. The economy is booming and America's international position is strong. In foreign affairs, the U.S. has remembered in the nick of time what Machiavelli advised princes five centuries ago: Don't seek to be loved, seek to be feared.

The contrast with the Obama years must be painful for any honest leftist. For future generations, the Kavanaugh fight will stand as a marker of the Democratic Party's intellectual bankruptcy, the flashing red light on the dashboard that says "Empty." The left is beaten.

This has happened before, in the 1980s and '90s and early 2000s, but then the financial crisis arrived to save liberalism from certain destruction. Today leftists pray that Robert Mueller will put on his Superman outfit and save them again.

For now, though, the left's only issue is "We hate Trump." This is an instructive hatred, because what the left hates about Donald Trump is precisely what it hates about America. The implications are important, and painful.

Not that every leftist hates America. But the leftists I know do hate Mr. Trump's vulgarity, his unwillingness to walk away from a fight, his bluntness, his certainty that America is exceptional, his mistrust of intellectuals, his love of simple ideas that work, and his refusal to believe that men and women are interchangeable. Worst of all, he has no ideology except getting the job done. His goals are to do the task before him, not be pushed around, and otherwise to enjoy life. In short, he is a typical American—except exaggerated, because he has no constraints to cramp his style except the ones he himself invents.

Mr. Trump lacks constraints because he is filthy rich and always has been and, unlike other rich men, he revels in wealth and feels no need to apologize—ever. He never learned to keep his real opinions to himself because he never had to. He never learned to be embarrassed that he is male, with ordinary male proclivities. Sometimes he has treated women disgracefully, for which Americans, left and right, are ashamed of him—as they are of JFK and Bill Clinton.

But my job as a voter is to choose the candidate who will do best for America. I am sorry about the coarseness of the unconstrained average American that Mr. Trump conveys. That coarseness is unpresidential and makes us look bad to other nations. On the other hand, many of his opponents worry too much about what other people think. I would love the esteem of France, Germany and Japan. But I don't find myself losing sleep over it.

The difference between citizens who hate Mr. Trump and those who can live with him—whether they love or merely tolerate him—comes down to their views of the typical American: the farmer, factory hand, auto mechanic, machinist, teamster, shop owner, clerk, software engineer, infantryman, truck driver, housewife. The leftist intellectuals I know say they dislike such people insofar as they tend to be conservative Republicans.

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama know their real sins. They know how appalling such people are, with their stupid guns and loathsome churches. They have no money or permanent grievances to make them interesting and no Twitter followers to speak of. They skip Davos every year and watch Fox News. Not even the very best has the dazzling brilliance of a Chuck Schumer, not to mention a Michelle Obama. In truth they are dumb as sheep.

Mr. Trump reminds us who the average American really is. Not the average male American, or the average white American. We know for sure that, come 2020, intellectuals will be dumbfounded at the number of women and blacks who will vote for Mr. Trump. He might be realigning the political map: plain average Americans of every type vs. fancy ones.

Many left-wing intellectuals are counting on technology to do away with the jobs that sustain all those old-fashioned truck-driver-type people, but they are laughably wide of the mark. It is impossible to transport food and clothing, or hug your wife or girl or child, or sit silently with your best friend, over the internet. Perhaps that's obvious, but to be an intellectual means nothing is obvious. Mr. Trump is no genius, but if you have mastered the obvious and add common sense, you are nine-tenths of the way home. (Scholarship is fine, but the typical modern intellectual cheapens his learning with politics, and is proud to vary his teaching with broken-down left-wing junk.)

This all leads to an important question—one that will be dismissed indignantly today, but not by historians in the long run: Is it possible to hate Donald Trump but not the average American?

True, Mr. Trump is the unconstrained average citizen. Obviously you can hate some of his major characteristics—the infantile lack of self-control in his Twitter babble, his hitting back like a spiteful child bully—without hating the average American, who has no such tendencies. (Mr. Trump is improving in these two categories.) You might dislike the whole package. I wouldn't choose him as a friend, nor would he choose me. But what I see on the left is often plain, unconditional hatred of which the hater—God forgive him—is proud. It's discouraging, even disgusting. And it does mean, I believe, that the Trump-hater truly does hate the average American—male or female, black or white. Often he hates America, too.


Granted, Mr. Trump is a parody of the average American, not the thing itself. To turn away is fair. But to hate him from your heart is revealing. Many Americans were ashamed when Ronald Reagan was elected. A movie actor? But the new direction he chose for America was a big success on balance, and Reagan turned into a great president. Evidently this country was intended to be run by amateurs after all—by plain citizens, not only lawyers and bureaucrats.

Those who voted for Mr. Trump, and will vote for his candidates this November, worry about the nation, not its image. The president deserves our respect because Americans deserve it—not such fancy-pants extras as network commentators, socialist high-school teachers and eminent professors, but the basic human stuff that has made America great, and is making us greater all the time.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2018, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:42:53 PM
CNN has just been evacuated . . .

Is that in NYC?

One of my work colleagues was just telling me they found a bomb in Columbus Circle, which is where they're located.

There is a Trump hotel there too...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on October 24, 2018, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2018, 03:49:18 PM
this is a fascinating piece in the Journal today, and I think that this outlines the thinking on the view of the centrist, and in my opinion, also shows that the blue wave is a complete pipe dream:

From the Journal and written by David Gelernter who is computer science professor at Yale and chief scientist at Dittach LLC.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-real-reason-they-hate-trump-1540148467 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-real-reason-they-hate-trump-1540148467)

Every big U.S. election is interesting, but the coming midterms are fascinating for a reason most commentators forget to mention: The Democrats have no issues. The economy is booming and America's international position is strong. In foreign affairs, the U.S. has remembered in the nick of time what Machiavelli advised princes five centuries ago: Don't seek to be loved, seek to be feared.

The contrast with the Obama years must be painful for any honest leftist. For future generations, the Kavanaugh fight will stand as a marker of the Democratic Party's intellectual bankruptcy, the flashing red light on the dashboard that says "Empty." The left is beaten.

This has happened before, in the 1980s and '90s and early 2000s, but then the financial crisis arrived to save liberalism from certain destruction. Today leftists pray that Robert Mueller will put on his Superman outfit and save them again.

For now, though, the left's only issue is "We hate Trump." This is an instructive hatred, because what the left hates about Donald Trump is precisely what it hates about America. The implications are important, and painful.

Not that every leftist hates America. But the leftists I know do hate Mr. Trump's vulgarity, his unwillingness to walk away from a fight, his bluntness, his certainty that America is exceptional, his mistrust of intellectuals, his love of simple ideas that work, and his refusal to believe that men and women are interchangeable. Worst of all, he has no ideology except getting the job done. His goals are to do the task before him, not be pushed around, and otherwise to enjoy life. In short, he is a typical American—except exaggerated, because he has no constraints to cramp his style except the ones he himself invents.

Mr. Trump lacks constraints because he is filthy rich and always has been and, unlike other rich men, he revels in wealth and feels no need to apologize—ever. He never learned to keep his real opinions to himself because he never had to. He never learned to be embarrassed that he is male, with ordinary male proclivities. Sometimes he has treated women disgracefully, for which Americans, left and right, are ashamed of him—as they are of JFK and Bill Clinton.

But my job as a voter is to choose the candidate who will do best for America. I am sorry about the coarseness of the unconstrained average American that Mr. Trump conveys. That coarseness is unpresidential and makes us look bad to other nations. On the other hand, many of his opponents worry too much about what other people think. I would love the esteem of France, Germany and Japan. But I don't find myself losing sleep over it.

The difference between citizens who hate Mr. Trump and those who can live with him—whether they love or merely tolerate him—comes down to their views of the typical American: the farmer, factory hand, auto mechanic, machinist, teamster, shop owner, clerk, software engineer, infantryman, truck driver, housewife. The leftist intellectuals I know say they dislike such people insofar as they tend to be conservative Republicans.

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama know their real sins. They know how appalling such people are, with their stupid guns and loathsome churches. They have no money or permanent grievances to make them interesting and no Twitter followers to speak of. They skip Davos every year and watch Fox News. Not even the very best has the dazzling brilliance of a Chuck Schumer, not to mention a Michelle Obama. In truth they are dumb as sheep.

Mr. Trump reminds us who the average American really is. Not the average male American, or the average white American. We know for sure that, come 2020, intellectuals will be dumbfounded at the number of women and blacks who will vote for Mr. Trump. He might be realigning the political map: plain average Americans of every type vs. fancy ones.

Many left-wing intellectuals are counting on technology to do away with the jobs that sustain all those old-fashioned truck-driver-type people, but they are laughably wide of the mark. It is impossible to transport food and clothing, or hug your wife or girl or child, or sit silently with your best friend, over the internet. Perhaps that's obvious, but to be an intellectual means nothing is obvious. Mr. Trump is no genius, but if you have mastered the obvious and add common sense, you are nine-tenths of the way home. (Scholarship is fine, but the typical modern intellectual cheapens his learning with politics, and is proud to vary his teaching with broken-down left-wing junk.)

This all leads to an important question—one that will be dismissed indignantly today, but not by historians in the long run: Is it possible to hate Donald Trump but not the average American?

True, Mr. Trump is the unconstrained average citizen. Obviously you can hate some of his major characteristics—the infantile lack of self-control in his Twitter babble, his hitting back like a spiteful child bully—without hating the average American, who has no such tendencies. (Mr. Trump is improving in these two categories.) You might dislike the whole package. I wouldn't choose him as a friend, nor would he choose me. But what I see on the left is often plain, unconditional hatred of which the hater—God forgive him—is proud. It's discouraging, even disgusting. And it does mean, I believe, that the Trump-hater truly does hate the average American—male or female, black or white. Often he hates America, too.


Granted, Mr. Trump is a parody of the average American, not the thing itself. To turn away is fair. But to hate him from your heart is revealing. Many Americans were ashamed when Ronald Reagan was elected. A movie actor? But the new direction he chose for America was a big success on balance, and Reagan turned into a great president. Evidently this country was intended to be run by amateurs after all—by plain citizens, not only lawyers and bureaucrats.

Those who voted for Mr. Trump, and will vote for his candidates this November, worry about the nation, not its image. The president deserves our respect because Americans deserve it—not such fancy-pants extras as network commentators, socialist high-school teachers and eminent professors, but the basic human stuff that has made America great, and is making us greater all the time.

This bloke is a professor? At Yale?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 03:58:09 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2018, 03:49:18 PM
this is a fascinating piece in the Journal today, and I think that this outlines the thinking on the view of the centrist, and in my opinion, also shows that the blue wave is a complete pipe dream:

From the Journal and written by David Gelernter who is computer science professor at Yale and chief scientist at Dittach LLC.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-real-reason-they-hate-trump-1540148467

Every big U.S. election is interesting, but the coming midterms are fascinating for a reason most commentators forget to mention: The Democrats have no issues. The economy is booming and America's international position is strong. In foreign affairs, the U.S. has remembered in the nick of time what Machiavelli advised princes five centuries ago: Don't seek to be loved, seek to be feared.

The contrast with the Obama years must be painful for any honest leftist. For future generations, the Kavanaugh fight will stand as a marker of the Democratic Party's intellectual bankruptcy, the flashing red light on the dashboard that says "Empty." The left is beaten.

This has happened before, in the 1980s and '90s and early 2000s, but then the financial crisis arrived to save liberalism from certain destruction. Today leftists pray that Robert Mueller will put on his Superman outfit and save them again.

For now, though, the left's only issue is "We hate Trump." This is an instructive hatred, because what the left hates about Donald Trump is precisely what it hates about America. The implications are important, and painful.

Not that every leftist hates America. But the leftists I know do hate Mr. Trump's vulgarity, his unwillingness to walk away from a fight, his bluntness, his certainty that America is exceptional, his mistrust of intellectuals, his love of simple ideas that work, and his refusal to believe that men and women are interchangeable. Worst of all, he has no ideology except getting the job done. His goals are to do the task before him, not be pushed around, and otherwise to enjoy life. In short, he is a typical American—except exaggerated, because he has no constraints to cramp his style except the ones he himself invents.

Mr. Trump lacks constraints because he is filthy rich and always has been and, unlike other rich men, he revels in wealth and feels no need to apologize—ever. He never learned to keep his real opinions to himself because he never had to. He never learned to be embarrassed that he is male, with ordinary male proclivities. Sometimes he has treated women disgracefully, for which Americans, left and right, are ashamed of him—as they are of JFK and Bill Clinton.

But my job as a voter is to choose the candidate who will do best for America. I am sorry about the coarseness of the unconstrained average American that Mr. Trump conveys. That coarseness is unpresidential and makes us look bad to other nations. On the other hand, many of his opponents worry too much about what other people think. I would love the esteem of France, Germany and Japan. But I don't find myself losing sleep over it.

The difference between citizens who hate Mr. Trump and those who can live with him—whether they love or merely tolerate him—comes down to their views of the typical American: the farmer, factory hand, auto mechanic, machinist, teamster, shop owner, clerk, software engineer, infantryman, truck driver, housewife. The leftist intellectuals I know say they dislike such people insofar as they tend to be conservative Republicans.

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama know their real sins. They know how appalling such people are, with their stupid guns and loathsome churches. They have no money or permanent grievances to make them interesting and no Twitter followers to speak of. They skip Davos every year and watch Fox News. Not even the very best has the dazzling brilliance of a Chuck Schumer, not to mention a Michelle Obama. In truth they are dumb as sheep.

Mr. Trump reminds us who the average American really is. Not the average male American, or the average white American. We know for sure that, come 2020, intellectuals will be dumbfounded at the number of women and blacks who will vote for Mr. Trump. He might be realigning the political map: plain average Americans of every type vs. fancy ones.

Many left-wing intellectuals are counting on technology to do away with the jobs that sustain all those old-fashioned truck-driver-type people, but they are laughably wide of the mark. It is impossible to transport food and clothing, or hug your wife or girl or child, or sit silently with your best friend, over the internet. Perhaps that's obvious, but to be an intellectual means nothing is obvious. Mr. Trump is no genius, but if you have mastered the obvious and add common sense, you are nine-tenths of the way home. (Scholarship is fine, but the typical modern intellectual cheapens his learning with politics, and is proud to vary his teaching with broken-down left-wing junk.)

This all leads to an important question—one that will be dismissed indignantly today, but not by historians in the long run: Is it possible to hate Donald Trump but not the average American?

True, Mr. Trump is the unconstrained average citizen. Obviously you can hate some of his major characteristics—the infantile lack of self-control in his Twitter babble, his hitting back like a spiteful child bully—without hating the average American, who has no such tendencies. (Mr. Trump is improving in these two categories.) You might dislike the whole package. I wouldn't choose him as a friend, nor would he choose me. But what I see on the left is often plain, unconditional hatred of which the hater—God forgive him—is proud. It's discouraging, even disgusting. And it does mean, I believe, that the Trump-hater truly does hate the average American—male or female, black or white. Often he hates America, too.


Granted, Mr. Trump is a parody of the average American, not the thing itself. To turn away is fair. But to hate him from your heart is revealing. Many Americans were ashamed when Ronald Reagan was elected. A movie actor? But the new direction he chose for America was a big success on balance, and Reagan turned into a great president. Evidently this country was intended to be run by amateurs after all—by plain citizens, not only lawyers and bureaucrats.

Those who voted for Mr. Trump, and will vote for his candidates this November, worry about the nation, not its image. The president deserves our respect because Americans deserve it—not such fancy-pants extras as network commentators, socialist high-school teachers and eminent professors, but the basic human stuff that has made America great, and is making us greater all the time.
I thought it was awful

especially

"This is an instructive hatred, because what the left hates about Donald Trump is precisely what it hates about America"

Climate change denial is not in the interest of average Americans. Neither are trade wars or tax cuts for the rich
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:02:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2018, 03:49:18 PM
this is a fascinating piece in the Journal today, and I think that this outlines the thinking on the view of the centrist, and in my opinion, also shows that the blue wave is a complete pipe dream:

From the Journal and written by David Gelernter who is computer science professor at Yale and chief scientist at Dittach LLC.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-real-reason-they-hate-trump-1540148467

Every big U.S. election is interesting, but the coming midterms are fascinating for a reason most commentators forget to mention: The Democrats have no issues. The economy is booming and America's international position is strong. In foreign affairs, the U.S. has remembered in the nick of time what Machiavelli advised princes five centuries ago: Don't seek to be loved, seek to be feared.

The contrast with the Obama years must be painful for any honest leftist. For future generations, the Kavanaugh fight will stand as a marker of the Democratic Party's intellectual bankruptcy, the flashing red light on the dashboard that says "Empty." The left is beaten.

This has happened before, in the 1980s and '90s and early 2000s, but then the financial crisis arrived to save liberalism from certain destruction. Today leftists pray that Robert Mueller will put on his Superman outfit and save them again.

For now, though, the left's only issue is "We hate Trump." This is an instructive hatred, because what the left hates about Donald Trump is precisely what it hates about America. The implications are important, and painful.

Not that every leftist hates America. But the leftists I know do hate Mr. Trump's vulgarity, his unwillingness to walk away from a fight, his bluntness, his certainty that America is exceptional, his mistrust of intellectuals, his love of simple ideas that work, and his refusal to believe that men and women are interchangeable. Worst of all, he has no ideology except getting the job done. His goals are to do the task before him, not be pushed around, and otherwise to enjoy life. In short, he is a typical American—except exaggerated, because he has no constraints to cramp his style except the ones he himself invents.

Mr. Trump lacks constraints because he is filthy rich and always has been and, unlike other rich men, he revels in wealth and feels no need to apologize—ever. He never learned to keep his real opinions to himself because he never had to. He never learned to be embarrassed that he is male, with ordinary male proclivities. Sometimes he has treated women disgracefully, for which Americans, left and right, are ashamed of him—as they are of JFK and Bill Clinton.

But my job as a voter is to choose the candidate who will do best for America. I am sorry about the coarseness of the unconstrained average American that Mr. Trump conveys. That coarseness is unpresidential and makes us look bad to other nations. On the other hand, many of his opponents worry too much about what other people think. I would love the esteem of France, Germany and Japan. But I don't find myself losing sleep over it.

The difference between citizens who hate Mr. Trump and those who can live with him—whether they love or merely tolerate him—comes down to their views of the typical American: the farmer, factory hand, auto mechanic, machinist, teamster, shop owner, clerk, software engineer, infantryman, truck driver, housewife. The leftist intellectuals I know say they dislike such people insofar as they tend to be conservative Republicans.

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama know their real sins. They know how appalling such people are, with their stupid guns and loathsome churches. They have no money or permanent grievances to make them interesting and no Twitter followers to speak of. They skip Davos every year and watch Fox News. Not even the very best has the dazzling brilliance of a Chuck Schumer, not to mention a Michelle Obama. In truth they are dumb as sheep.

Mr. Trump reminds us who the average American really is. Not the average male American, or the average white American. We know for sure that, come 2020, intellectuals will be dumbfounded at the number of women and blacks who will vote for Mr. Trump. He might be realigning the political map: plain average Americans of every type vs. fancy ones.

Many left-wing intellectuals are counting on technology to do away with the jobs that sustain all those old-fashioned truck-driver-type people, but they are laughably wide of the mark. It is impossible to transport food and clothing, or hug your wife or girl or child, or sit silently with your best friend, over the internet. Perhaps that's obvious, but to be an intellectual means nothing is obvious. Mr. Trump is no genius, but if you have mastered the obvious and add common sense, you are nine-tenths of the way home. (Scholarship is fine, but the typical modern intellectual cheapens his learning with politics, and is proud to vary his teaching with broken-down left-wing junk.)

This all leads to an important question—one that will be dismissed indignantly today, but not by historians in the long run: Is it possible to hate Donald Trump but not the average American?

True, Mr. Trump is the unconstrained average citizen. Obviously you can hate some of his major characteristics—the infantile lack of self-control in his Twitter babble, his hitting back like a spiteful child bully—without hating the average American, who has no such tendencies. (Mr. Trump is improving in these two categories.) You might dislike the whole package. I wouldn't choose him as a friend, nor would he choose me. But what I see on the left is often plain, unconditional hatred of which the hater—God forgive him—is proud. It's discouraging, even disgusting. And it does mean, I believe, that the Trump-hater truly does hate the average American—male or female, black or white. Often he hates America, too.


Granted, Mr. Trump is a parody of the average American, not the thing itself. To turn away is fair. But to hate him from your heart is revealing. Many Americans were ashamed when Ronald Reagan was elected. A movie actor? But the new direction he chose for America was a big success on balance, and Reagan turned into a great president. Evidently this country was intended to be run by amateurs after all—by plain citizens, not only lawyers and bureaucrats.

Those who voted for Mr. Trump, and will vote for his candidates this November, worry about the nation, not its image. The president deserves our respect because Americans deserve it—not such fancy-pants extras as network commentators, socialist high-school teachers and eminent professors, but the basic human stuff that has made America great, and is making us greater all the time.

This guy is a centrist?

Trump is the unfiltered, unconstrained version of the average American??

I've come across a few like Trump. They were and are moronic, obnoxious, loudmouth arseholes and in no way representative of the average American. And its not just NYC where I live. I'm married to a woman from a very rural western state, and none of her family or relatives are like that, even if some of them vote for Trump for political reasons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:06:49 PM
Also, last time I checked, Trump still has never passed the 50% mark for job approval or even achieved net positive rating.

Perhaps the author is denying that half the country are "Americans"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:06:49 PM
Also, last time I checked, Trump still has never passed the 50% mark for job approval or even achieved net positive rating.

Perhaps the author is denying that half the country are "Americans"
He was mostly talking to himself
The economic system is on its last legs yet the left is dead. I doubt it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 24, 2018, 04:20:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:06:49 PM
Also, last time I checked, Trump still has never passed the 50% mark for job approval or even achieved net positive rating.

Perhaps the author is denying that half the country are "Americans"
He was mostly talking to himself
The economic system is on its last legs yet the left is dead. I doubt it

Read the comments-there's 3500 of them.

Most I have read agree with press of the article
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on October 24, 2018, 04:26:03 PM
Amazing! ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2018, 04:20:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:06:49 PM
Also, last time I checked, Trump still has never passed the 50% mark for job approval or even achieved net positive rating.

Perhaps the author is denying that half the country are "Americans"
He was mostly talking to himself
The economic system is on its last legs yet the left is dead. I doubt it

Read the comments-there's 3500 of them.

Most I have read agree with press of the article
WSJ is fairly hard right , Whitey
You should spend some of your tax cut on a statistics course. It would do you good.  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 24, 2018, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2018, 04:20:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:06:49 PM
Also, last time I checked, Trump still has never passed the 50% mark for job approval or even achieved net positive rating.

Perhaps the author is denying that half the country are "Americans"
He was mostly talking to himself
The economic system is on its last legs yet the left is dead. I doubt it

Read the comments-there's 3500 of them.

Most I have read agree with press of the article
WSJ is fairly hard right , Whitey
You should spend some of your tax cut on a statistics course. It would do you good.  8)

Ehhhh....maybe you could recommend one after you complete it yourself

WSJ is far from hard right, and anyone who can comment (ie has a subscription) definitely isnt hard right.

The Democrats have become the party of the aggrieved and the victims.   Plenty of work and opportunity for anyone who wants it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 24, 2018, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:06:49 PM
Also, last time I checked, Trump still has never passed the 50% mark for job approval or even achieved net positive rating.

Perhaps the author is denying that half the country are "Americans"

47%. If he's still 47% in 2020 he gets four more years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:51:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 24, 2018, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:06:49 PM
Also, last time I checked, Trump still has never passed the 50% mark for job approval or even achieved net positive rating.

Perhaps the author is denying that half the country are "Americans"

47%. If he's still 47% in 2020 he gets four more years.

That's not my point.

The author is making some kind of point about how Trump is some kind of embodiment of real Americans. Unless real America is only populated by people who like Trump and Sarah Palin and the rest of the people are illegitimate imposters, he's full of shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:55:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2018, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2018, 04:20:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:06:49 PM
Also, last time I checked, Trump still has never passed the 50% mark for job approval or even achieved net positive rating.

Perhaps the author is denying that half the country are "Americans"
He was mostly talking to himself
The economic system is on its last legs yet the left is dead. I doubt it

Read the comments-there's 3500 of them.

Most I have read agree with press of the article
WSJ is fairly hard right , Whitey
You should spend some of your tax cut on a statistics course. It would do you good.  8)

Ehhhh....maybe you could recommend one after you complete it yourself

WSJ is far from hard right, and anyone who can comment (ie has a subscription) definitely isnt hard right.

The Democrats have become the party of the aggrieved and the victims.   Plenty of work and opportunity for anyone who wants it.

The Dems are the party of the aggrieved.

THAT explains Trump's platform of fear mongering and scapegoats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2018, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 24, 2018, 04:20:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 04:06:49 PM
Also, last time I checked, Trump still has never passed the 50% mark for job approval or even achieved net positive rating.

Perhaps the author is denying that half the country are "Americans"
He was mostly talking to himself
The economic system is on its last legs yet the left is dead. I doubt it

Read the comments-there's 3500 of them.

Most I have read agree with press of the article
WSJ is fairly hard right , Whitey
You should spend some of your tax cut on a statistics course. It would do you good.  8)

Ehhhh....maybe you could recommend one after you complete it yourself

WSJ is far from hard right, and anyone who can comment (ie has a subscription) definitely isnt hard right.

The Democrats have become the party of the aggrieved and the victims.   Plenty of work and opportunity for anyone who wants it.
You don't have any composure or quality  when it comes to statistical significance and statistical bias. They probably run them at the Connacht centre of excellence below in Bekan. All the teams need stats these days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on October 24, 2018, 06:52:47 PM
The Journal is a capitalist publication, and while you wouldn't think it to listen to most, that is very very different from being a republican or a right wing publication. While it is easy to conflate it is a very very different approach to life.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2018, 06:57:02 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2018, 06:52:47 PM
The Journal is a capitalist publication, and while you wouldn't think it to listen to most, that is very very different from being a republican or a right wing publication. While it is easy to conflate it is a very very different approach to life.
Compared to the Financial Times it is pretty hard core. And the FT is not lefty.
Plus the WSJ is owned by Murdoch
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 24, 2018, 10:47:54 PM
Conservative terrorists now targetting CNN, George Soros, the Clintons, and the Obama family. How low is the right prepared to go? If Timothy McVeigh hadn't been executed he'd probably be working as a Fox News contributor by now and be a front-runner in a Republican primary in some god-awful conservative red state. God help us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2018, 12:32:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
I see the Democrats have sent Obama and Hillary suspect packages in the post to try and energise their base ahead of the Mid Terms . . . False Flag people don't fall for it they want open borders and mobs stay strong!!!

Soros too.

But I think you are right that that will be how this story will eventually be treated on the right. Might take a few days, but they'll start to slip it in there, maybe using Trump's patented "people are/everyone is saying..." once Infowars or WND or Gateway Pundit or the like break the ice.

Between the Democrats starting up the caravan and doing fake targeting of their leaders to make the right look bad, Trump should have more than enough to prevail in the elections.

I was wrong.

Didn't take them a few days.

They're already at it. Limbaugh and Coulter talking about it already.

US conservatives are utterly, morally bankrupt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 25, 2018, 12:52:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2018, 12:32:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
I see the Democrats have sent Obama and Hillary suspect packages in the post to try and energise their base ahead of the Mid Terms . . . False Flag people don't fall for it they want open borders and mobs stay strong!!!

Soros too.

But I think you are right that that will be how this story will eventually be treated on the right. Might take a few days, but they'll start to slip it in there, maybe using Trump's patented "people are/everyone is saying..." once Infowars or WND or Gateway Pundit or the like break the ice.

Between the Democrats starting up the caravan and doing fake targeting of their leaders to make the right look bad, Trump should have more than enough to prevail in the elections.

I was wrong.

Didn't take them a few days.

They're already at it. Limbaugh and Coulter talking about it already.

US conservatives are utterly, morally bankrupt.
was somebody arrested already ? Where was Kavanaugh this week
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2018, 01:01:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 25, 2018, 12:52:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2018, 12:32:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
I see the Democrats have sent Obama and Hillary suspect packages in the post to try and energise their base ahead of the Mid Terms . . . False Flag people don't fall for it they want open borders and mobs stay strong!!!

Soros too.

But I think you are right that that will be how this story will eventually be treated on the right. Might take a few days, but they'll start to slip it in there, maybe using Trump's patented "people are/everyone is saying..." once Infowars or WND or Gateway Pundit or the like break the ice.

Between the Democrats starting up the caravan and doing fake targeting of their leaders to make the right look bad, Trump should have more than enough to prevail in the elections.

I was wrong.

Didn't take them a few days.

They're already at it. Limbaugh and Coulter talking about it already.

US conservatives are utterly, morally bankrupt.
was somebody arrested already ? Where was Kavanaugh this week

According to CNN he's a prime suspect......he was very fond of the Irish Car Bombs during his drinking days at Georgetown Prep
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 25, 2018, 06:38:57 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2018, 03:49:18 PM
this is a fascinating piece in the Journal today, and I think that this outlines the thinking on the view of the centrist, and in my opinion, also shows that the blue wave is a complete pipe dream:

From the Journal and written by David Gelernter who is computer science professor at Yale and chief scientist at Dittach LLC.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-real-reason-they-hate-trump-1540148467

Every big U.S. election is interesting, but the coming midterms are fascinating for a reason most commentators forget to mention: The Democrats have no issues. The economy is booming and America's international position is strong. In foreign affairs, the U.S. has remembered in the nick of time what Machiavelli advised princes five centuries ago: Don't seek to be loved, seek to be feared.

The contrast with the Obama years must be painful for any honest leftist. For future generations, the Kavanaugh fight will stand as a marker of the Democratic Party's intellectual bankruptcy, the flashing red light on the dashboard that says "Empty." The left is beaten.

This has happened before, in the 1980s and '90s and early 2000s, but then the financial crisis arrived to save liberalism from certain destruction. Today leftists pray that Robert Mueller will put on his Superman outfit and save them again.

For now, though, the left's only issue is "We hate Trump." This is an instructive hatred, because what the left hates about Donald Trump is precisely what it hates about America. The implications are important, and painful.

Not that every leftist hates America. But the leftists I know do hate Mr. Trump's vulgarity, his unwillingness to walk away from a fight, his bluntness, his certainty that America is exceptional, his mistrust of intellectuals, his love of simple ideas that work, and his refusal to believe that men and women are interchangeable. Worst of all, he has no ideology except getting the job done. His goals are to do the task before him, not be pushed around, and otherwise to enjoy life. In short, he is a typical American—except exaggerated, because he has no constraints to cramp his style except the ones he himself invents.

Mr. Trump lacks constraints because he is filthy rich and always has been and, unlike other rich men, he revels in wealth and feels no need to apologize—ever. He never learned to keep his real opinions to himself because he never had to. He never learned to be embarrassed that he is male, with ordinary male proclivities. Sometimes he has treated women disgracefully, for which Americans, left and right, are ashamed of him—as they are of JFK and Bill Clinton.

But my job as a voter is to choose the candidate who will do best for America. I am sorry about the coarseness of the unconstrained average American that Mr. Trump conveys. That coarseness is unpresidential and makes us look bad to other nations. On the other hand, many of his opponents worry too much about what other people think. I would love the esteem of France, Germany and Japan. But I don't find myself losing sleep over it.

The difference between citizens who hate Mr. Trump and those who can live with him—whether they love or merely tolerate him—comes down to their views of the typical American: the farmer, factory hand, auto mechanic, machinist, teamster, shop owner, clerk, software engineer, infantryman, truck driver, housewife. The leftist intellectuals I know say they dislike such people insofar as they tend to be conservative Republicans.

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama know their real sins. They know how appalling such people are, with their stupid guns and loathsome churches. They have no money or permanent grievances to make them interesting and no Twitter followers to speak of. They skip Davos every year and watch Fox News. Not even the very best has the dazzling brilliance of a Chuck Schumer, not to mention a Michelle Obama. In truth they are dumb as sheep.

Mr. Trump reminds us who the average American really is. Not the average male American, or the average white American. We know for sure that, come 2020, intellectuals will be dumbfounded at the number of women and blacks who will vote for Mr. Trump. He might be realigning the political map: plain average Americans of every type vs. fancy ones.

Many left-wing intellectuals are counting on technology to do away with the jobs that sustain all those old-fashioned truck-driver-type people, but they are laughably wide of the mark. It is impossible to transport food and clothing, or hug your wife or girl or child, or sit silently with your best friend, over the internet. Perhaps that's obvious, but to be an intellectual means nothing is obvious. Mr. Trump is no genius, but if you have mastered the obvious and add common sense, you are nine-tenths of the way home. (Scholarship is fine, but the typical modern intellectual cheapens his learning with politics, and is proud to vary his teaching with broken-down left-wing junk.)

This all leads to an important question—one that will be dismissed indignantly today, but not by historians in the long run: Is it possible to hate Donald Trump but not the average American?

True, Mr. Trump is the unconstrained average citizen. Obviously you can hate some of his major characteristics—the infantile lack of self-control in his Twitter babble, his hitting back like a spiteful child bully—without hating the average American, who has no such tendencies. (Mr. Trump is improving in these two categories.) You might dislike the whole package. I wouldn't choose him as a friend, nor would he choose me. But what I see on the left is often plain, unconditional hatred of which the hater—God forgive him—is proud. It's discouraging, even disgusting. And it does mean, I believe, that the Trump-hater truly does hate the average American—male or female, black or white. Often he hates America, too.


Granted, Mr. Trump is a parody of the average American, not the thing itself. To turn away is fair. But to hate him from your heart is revealing. Many Americans were ashamed when Ronald Reagan was elected. A movie actor? But the new direction he chose for America was a big success on balance, and Reagan turned into a great president. Evidently this country was intended to be run by amateurs after all—by plain citizens, not only lawyers and bureaucrats.

Those who voted for Mr. Trump, and will vote for his candidates this November, worry about the nation, not its image. The president deserves our respect because Americans deserve it—not such fancy-pants extras as network commentators, socialist high-school teachers and eminent professors, but the basic human stuff that has made America great, and is making us greater all the time.

David Gelernter is full of it.. just another protagonist for ignorance and failed political economy. However I do not underestimate the average Americans ability to vote against his /her economic and social well being and on that score we will see if he is right on Nov 6th. (BTW I am talking only about the House of Representatives ... This time round the Senate is gerrymandered beyond anything other than a Nativist Party win)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 25, 2018, 06:48:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2018, 01:01:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 25, 2018, 12:52:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2018, 12:32:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 24, 2018, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 24, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
I see the Democrats have sent Obama and Hillary suspect packages in the post to try and energise their base ahead of the Mid Terms . . . False Flag people don't fall for it they want open borders and mobs stay strong!!!

Soros too.

But I think you are right that that will be how this story will eventually be treated on the right. Might take a few days, but they'll start to slip it in there, maybe using Trump's patented "people are/everyone is saying..." once Infowars or WND or Gateway Pundit or the like break the ice.

Between the Democrats starting up the caravan and doing fake targeting of their leaders to make the right look bad, Trump should have more than enough to prevail in the elections.

I was wrong.

Didn't take them a few days.

They're already at it. Limbaugh and Coulter talking about it already.

US conservatives are utterly, morally bankrupt.
was somebody arrested already ? Where was Kavanaugh this week

According to CNN he's a prime suspect......he was very fond of the Irish Car Bombs during his drinking days at Georgetown Prep

Wind your neck in Whitey. Do you realize that you are cheering on domestic terrorism? probably not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2018, 08:12:44 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 25, 2018, 06:38:57 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 24, 2018, 03:49:18 PM
this is a fascinating piece in the Journal today, and I think that this outlines the thinking on the view of the centrist, and in my opinion, also shows that the blue wave is a complete pipe dream:

From the Journal and written by David Gelernter who is computer science professor at Yale and chief scientist at Dittach LLC.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-real-reason-they-hate-trump-1540148467

Every big U.S. election is interesting, but the coming midterms are fascinating for a reason most commentators forget to mention: The Democrats have no issues. The economy is booming and America's international position is strong. In foreign affairs, the U.S. has remembered in the nick of time what Machiavelli advised princes five centuries ago: Don't seek to be loved, seek to be feared.

The contrast with the Obama years must be painful for any honest leftist. For future generations, the Kavanaugh fight will stand as a marker of the Democratic Party's intellectual bankruptcy, the flashing red light on the dashboard that says "Empty." The left is beaten.

This has happened before, in the 1980s and '90s and early 2000s, but then the financial crisis arrived to save liberalism from certain destruction. Today leftists pray that Robert Mueller will put on his Superman outfit and save them again.

For now, though, the left's only issue is "We hate Trump." This is an instructive hatred, because what the left hates about Donald Trump is precisely what it hates about America. The implications are important, and painful.

Not that every leftist hates America. But the leftists I know do hate Mr. Trump's vulgarity, his unwillingness to walk away from a fight, his bluntness, his certainty that America is exceptional, his mistrust of intellectuals, his love of simple ideas that work, and his refusal to believe that men and women are interchangeable. Worst of all, he has no ideology except getting the job done. His goals are to do the task before him, not be pushed around, and otherwise to enjoy life. In short, he is a typical American—except exaggerated, because he has no constraints to cramp his style except the ones he himself invents.

Mr. Trump lacks constraints because he is filthy rich and always has been and, unlike other rich men, he revels in wealth and feels no need to apologize—ever. He never learned to keep his real opinions to himself because he never had to. He never learned to be embarrassed that he is male, with ordinary male proclivities. Sometimes he has treated women disgracefully, for which Americans, left and right, are ashamed of him—as they are of JFK and Bill Clinton.

But my job as a voter is to choose the candidate who will do best for America. I am sorry about the coarseness of the unconstrained average American that Mr. Trump conveys. That coarseness is unpresidential and makes us look bad to other nations. On the other hand, many of his opponents worry too much about what other people think. I would love the esteem of France, Germany and Japan. But I don't find myself losing sleep over it.

The difference between citizens who hate Mr. Trump and those who can live with him—whether they love or merely tolerate him—comes down to their views of the typical American: the farmer, factory hand, auto mechanic, machinist, teamster, shop owner, clerk, software engineer, infantryman, truck driver, housewife. The leftist intellectuals I know say they dislike such people insofar as they tend to be conservative Republicans.

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama know their real sins. They know how appalling such people are, with their stupid guns and loathsome churches. They have no money or permanent grievances to make them interesting and no Twitter followers to speak of. They skip Davos every year and watch Fox News. Not even the very best has the dazzling brilliance of a Chuck Schumer, not to mention a Michelle Obama. In truth they are dumb as sheep.

Mr. Trump reminds us who the average American really is. Not the average male American, or the average white American. We know for sure that, come 2020, intellectuals will be dumbfounded at the number of women and blacks who will vote for Mr. Trump. He might be realigning the political map: plain average Americans of every type vs. fancy ones.

Many left-wing intellectuals are counting on technology to do away with the jobs that sustain all those old-fashioned truck-driver-type people, but they are laughably wide of the mark. It is impossible to transport food and clothing, or hug your wife or girl or child, or sit silently with your best friend, over the internet. Perhaps that's obvious, but to be an intellectual means nothing is obvious. Mr. Trump is no genius, but if you have mastered the obvious and add common sense, you are nine-tenths of the way home. (Scholarship is fine, but the typical modern intellectual cheapens his learning with politics, and is proud to vary his teaching with broken-down left-wing junk.)

This all leads to an important question—one that will be dismissed indignantly today, but not by historians in the long run: Is it possible to hate Donald Trump but not the average American?

True, Mr. Trump is the unconstrained average citizen. Obviously you can hate some of his major characteristics—the infantile lack of self-control in his Twitter babble, his hitting back like a spiteful child bully—without hating the average American, who has no such tendencies. (Mr. Trump is improving in these two categories.) You might dislike the whole package. I wouldn't choose him as a friend, nor would he choose me. But what I see on the left is often plain, unconditional hatred of which the hater—God forgive him—is proud. It's discouraging, even disgusting. And it does mean, I believe, that the Trump-hater truly does hate the average American—male or female, black or white. Often he hates America, too.


Granted, Mr. Trump is a parody of the average American, not the thing itself. To turn away is fair. But to hate him from your heart is revealing. Many Americans were ashamed when Ronald Reagan was elected. A movie actor? But the new direction he chose for America was a big success on balance, and Reagan turned into a great president. Evidently this country was intended to be run by amateurs after all—by plain citizens, not only lawyers and bureaucrats.

Those who voted for Mr. Trump, and will vote for his candidates this November, worry about the nation, not its image. The president deserves our respect because Americans deserve it—not such fancy-pants extras as network commentators, socialist high-school teachers and eminent professors, but the basic human stuff that has made America great, and is making us greater all the time.

David Gelernter is full of it.. just another protagonist for ignorance and failed political economy. However I do not underestimate the average Americans ability to vote against his /her economic and social well being and on that score we will see if he is right on Nov 6th. (BTW I am talking only about the House of Representatives ... This time round the Senate is gerrymandered beyond anything other than a Nativist Party win)

@davidfrum


It was a big battle in the 1880s whether to carve two states of Dakota out of the Dakota Territory or only one. Over Democratic objections, President Benjamin Harrison pushed through two states despite tiny populations precisely because he expected them to elect four GOP Senators


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2018, 11:05:15 AM
https://crooked.com/articles/midterms-2016-all-over-again/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 25, 2018, 04:08:32 PM
Dallas News endorsing Beto is bound to be a big problem for Cruz!!

Good enough for the snivelling idiot he has absolutely no balls!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2018, 04:23:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2018, 04:08:32 PM
Dallas News endorsing Beto is bound to be a big problem for Cruz!!

Good enough for the snivelling idiot he has absolutely no balls!!

https://youtu.be/WsX9bG5f0F4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 25, 2018, 04:24:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2018, 04:08:32 PM
Dallas News endorsing Beto is bound to be a big problem for Cruz!!

Good enough for the snivelling idiot he has absolutely no balls!!

Cruz is a pr1ck, but I don't think TX is ready for Beto. This is probably one of the races that will be determined by the fallout from the Supreme Court debacle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 25, 2018, 06:00:11 PM
I think the GOP's blatant voter suppression could be the deciding factor in that race.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 26, 2018, 05:06:27 PM
They just picked up a guy for the package bombs in Florida. His name is Cesar Sayock. He is resident in Florida and formerly he lived in New York.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 26, 2018, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 26, 2018, 05:06:27 PM
They just picked up a guy for the package bombs in Florida. His name is Cesar Sayock. He is resident in Florida and formerly he lived in New York.

Is he a libtard Dem like we were told he would be?

I'm assuming Fox and Limbaugh and the rest have his whole history plastered all over their sites and broadcasts?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 26, 2018, 07:39:04 PM
He probably has the Fox News logo burned into the bottom left corner of his TV screen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2018, 08:34:30 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/26/outsourcing-political-violence-bomb-scares-trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on October 26, 2018, 10:15:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2018, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 26, 2018, 05:06:27 PM


Is he a libtard Dem like we were told he would be?

I'm assuming Fox and Limbaugh and the rest have his whole history plastered all over their sites and broadcasts?
Your spot on again ;) https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi_8_mvgqXeAhUSm-AKHSMEBucQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fnews%2Fus-news%2Fvan-connected-pipe-bomb-suspect-covered-pro-trump-images-stickers-n924906&psig=AOvVaw2zhINqVWhsTBwAl6caD6DA&ust=1540674617344028
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2018, 08:08:13 PM
Can you imagine what we would be going through now from Trump and the right had it been a bunch of top Republicans targeted with pipe bombs by a left wing nut and a white evangelical church shot up by a Muslim?

These people were whining about left wing mobs and thugs because a GOP club door got graffitied and some politicians got yelled at by some women.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 27, 2018, 11:18:22 PM
Democratic rhetoric did not single out targets in the way that Trump has done. He effectively put crosshairs on CNN and the NYT by repeatedly branding then the "enemy of the people" and by repeatedly sniping at "Crooked Hillary", "Low IQ Maxine Waters" et al.  And when the gunman shot at the baseball players, Sanders instantly took to the floor of the Senate to denounce the act.  Trump, on the other hand, has incited violence numerous times at his rallies and has not only failed to sincerely disavow the support of white supreecists and neo-Nazis but has actually legitimized them by saying that some of them are decent people. So don't draw false equivalencies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.

Haha.....and people affialiated with the DNC were actively planting troublemakers at Trump rallies to cause trouble.   If you get down in the dirt, expect to get a few belts in the gob

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:51:36 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 27, 2018, 11:18:22 PM
Democratic rhetoric did not single out targets in the way that Trump has done. He effectively put crosshairs on CNN and the NYT by repeatedly branding then the "enemy of the people" and by repeatedly sniping at "Crooked Hillary", "Low IQ Maxine Waters" et al.  And when the gunman shot at the baseball players, Sanders instantly took to the floor of the Senate to denounce the act.  Trump, on the other hand, has incited violence numerous times at his rallies and has not only failed to sincerely disavow the support of white supreecists and neo-Nazis but has actually legitimized them by saying that some of them are decent people. So don't draw false equivalencies.


https://www.rollcall.com/politics/trump-rally-san-jose-california-violence


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Be7qg1SOjZ8

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/us/politics/inauguration-protests.html



Trump supporters have being getting attacked since before the election, but believe whatever you want (from CNN and the NY Times)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.

Haha.....and people affialiated with the DNC were actively planting troublemakers at Trump rallies to cause trouble.   If you get down in the dirt, expect to get a few belts in the gob

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html

Like I said, when you have evidence that Bernie or the likes encourage violence or don't immediately condemn it when done in their name, come back to us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2018, 12:21:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.

Haha.....and people affialiated with the DNC were actively planting troublemakers at Trump rallies to cause trouble.   If you get down in the dirt, expect to get a few belts in the gob

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html

Like I said, when you have evidence that Bernie or the likes encourage violence or don't immediately condemn it when done in their name, come back to us.

LOL.....he was actually accused of inciting violence by the DNC

https://people.com/celebrity/bernie-sanders-accused-of-inciting-violence-in-nevada-weighs-kentucky-recount/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 28, 2018, 01:13:36 AM
Whitey, you must be walking with a serious limp. Your sense of balance is way out of whack😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2018, 01:33:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 12:21:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.

Haha.....and people affialiated with the DNC were actively planting troublemakers at Trump rallies to cause trouble.   If you get down in the dirt, expect to get a few belts in the gob

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html

Like I said, when you have evidence that Bernie or the likes encourage violence or don't immediately condemn it when done in their name, come back to us.

LOL.....he was actually accused of inciting violence by the DNC

https://people.com/celebrity/bernie-sanders-accused-of-inciting-violence-in-nevada-weighs-kentucky-recount/

So some Bernie supporters got in a heated scuffle because they were pissed off over superdelegates or whatever. Do you have any actual quotes from Bernie comparable to what Trump regularly engages in?

Are there quotes of Bernie or any other Dems congratulating people for attacking reporters or offering to pay legal costs or generally dehumanizing opponents in the way Trump casually does.

For someone who professes to hate Trump, you never miss a chance to draw a false equivalency between him and the Dems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2018, 01:46:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 01:33:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 12:21:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.

Haha.....and people affialiated with the DNC were actively planting troublemakers at Trump rallies to cause trouble.   If you get down in the dirt, expect to get a few belts in the gob

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html

Like I said, when you have evidence that Bernie or the likes encourage violence or don't immediately condemn it when done in their name, come back to us.


LOL.....he was actually accused of inciting violence by the DNC

https://people.com/celebrity/bernie-sanders-accused-of-inciting-violence-in-nevada-weighs-kentucky-recount/

So some Bernie supporters got in a heated scuffle because they were pissed off over superdelegates or whatever. Do you have any actual quotes from Bernie comparable to what Trump regularly engages in?

Are there quotes of Bernie or any other Dems congratulating people for attacking reporters or offering to pay legal costs or generally dehumanizing opponents in the way Trump casually does.

For someone who professes to hate Trump, you never miss a chance to draw a false equivalency between him and the Dems.

You must not have read the article. 

"But Reid was angered and "surprised" when Sanders responded by issuing a defiant statement in which he dismissed the accusations as "nonsense" and condemned the way in which Nevada and other states have handled their delegate process."


Maybe I dont quite understand what you and Seafoid are saying/implying

You seem to be claiming that all or most of  the violence on the right is caused by Trumps rhetoric......is that correct?

So if as you claim, Democrats dont incite their supporters to violence how do you account for all of the instances of violence inflicted upon conservatives and Trump supporters by supporters of the left?

Maybe there are just crazy violent people who support both sides and will act out regardless. 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 28, 2018, 01:37:38 AM
There you go again Whitey. Limping your unbalanced way to false equivalency Limbaugh nirvana.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:09:03 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 28, 2018, 01:37:38 AM
There you go again Whitey. Limping your unbalanced way to false equivalency Limbaugh nirvana.

So following your logic the Democrats are responsible for Antifas actions

https://www.dailywire.com/news/34776/man-attacked-antifa-holding-fascist-american-flag-james-barrett
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2018, 03:23:50 AM
It's asymmetric, Whitey



kaczynski


@KFILE

I went through 3,000 of Cesar Sayoc's tweets going back to Jan/2017 & it's scary how corrupted his mind was by every far right conspiracies from Podesta child sacrifices, to Obama being a Muslim, to Pizzagate. Also noticeable how his rhetoric got more threatening as time went on.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 28, 2018, 03:42:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:09:03 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 28, 2018, 01:37:38 AM
There you go again Whitey. Limping your unbalanced way to false equivalency Limbaugh nirvana.

So following your logic the Democrats are responsible for Antifas actions

https://www.dailywire.com/news/34776/man-attacked-antifa-holding-fascist-american-flag-james-barrett
That would not be following my logic. Then your logical conclusions and mine are not quite the same. But you have Hannity, Limbaugh and Alex Jones in your corner and I'm looking to Paul Krugman for support. ..... now don't be coming back with I don't subscribe to Hannity etc like you always do. When you parrot everything they say.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:54:34 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 28, 2018, 03:42:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:09:03 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 28, 2018, 01:37:38 AM
There you go again Whitey. Limping your unbalanced way to false equivalency Limbaugh nirvana.

So following your logic the Democrats are responsible for Antifas actions

https://www.dailywire.com/news/34776/man-attacked-antifa-holding-fascist-american-flag-james-barrett
That would not be following my logic. Then your logical conclusions and mine are not quite the same. But you have Hannity, Limbaugh and Alex Jones in your corner and I'm looking to Paul Krugman for support. ..... now don't be coming back with I don't subscribe to Hannity etc like you always do. When you parrot everything they say.


So there are violent right wing ar$eholes, and their violence is a direct result of Trumps rhetoric.......am I on the right track with that statement?


So then we have the violent left wing ar$eholes, like Antifa and the guy who shot up the baseball game.  Who if anyone is responsible for inciting their violence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2018, 07:15:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:54:34 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 28, 2018, 03:42:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:09:03 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 28, 2018, 01:37:38 AM
There you go again Whitey. Limping your unbalanced way to false equivalency Limbaugh nirvana.

So following your logic the Democrats are responsible for Antifas actions

https://www.dailywire.com/news/34776/man-attacked-antifa-holding-fascist-american-flag-james-barrett
That would not be following my logic. Then your logical conclusions and mine are not quite the same. But you have Hannity, Limbaugh and Alex Jones in your corner and I'm looking to Paul Krugman for support. ..... now don't be coming back with I don't subscribe to Hannity etc like you always do. When you parrot everything they say.


So there are violent right wing ar$eholes, and their violence is a direct result of Trumps rhetoric.......am I on the right track with that statement?


So then we have the violent left wing ar$eholes, like Antifa and the guy who shot up the baseball game.  Who if anyone is responsible for inciting their violence?
It's not symmetric, Whitey


Here's how the violence works on the right

@alexkotch

Replying to
@alexkotch
So let's review here:

—Thursday: Fox Business airs interview with ghoul who claims Soros is behind the migrant caravan
—Saturday morning: Neo-Nazi massacres 11+ Jews, his social media posts show he's claimed Jews funded caravan
—Saturday night: Fox re-airs the interview
https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1056324117329297409/video/1

How does it work on the other side?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2018, 11:20:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 01:46:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 01:33:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 12:21:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.

Haha.....and people affialiated with the DNC were actively planting troublemakers at Trump rallies to cause trouble.   If you get down in the dirt, expect to get a few belts in the gob

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html

Like I said, when you have evidence that Bernie or the likes encourage violence or don't immediately condemn it when done in their name, come back to us.


LOL.....he was actually accused of inciting violence by the DNC

https://people.com/celebrity/bernie-sanders-accused-of-inciting-violence-in-nevada-weighs-kentucky-recount/

So some Bernie supporters got in a heated scuffle because they were pissed off over superdelegates or whatever. Do you have any actual quotes from Bernie comparable to what Trump regularly engages in?

Are there quotes of Bernie or any other Dems congratulating people for attacking reporters or offering to pay legal costs or generally dehumanizing opponents in the way Trump casually does.

For someone who professes to hate Trump, you never miss a chance to draw a false equivalency between him and the Dems.

You must not have read the article. 

"But Reid was angered and "surprised" when Sanders responded by issuing a defiant statement in which he dismissed the accusations as "nonsense" and condemned the way in which Nevada and other states have handled their delegate process."


Maybe I dont quite understand what you and Seafoid are saying/implying

You seem to be claiming that all or most of  the violence on the right is caused by Trumps rhetoric......is that correct?

So if as you claim, Democrats dont incite their supporters to violence how do you account for all of the instances of violence inflicted upon conservatives and Trump supporters by supporters of the left?

Maybe there are just crazy violent people who support both sides and will act out regardless.

I'm saying that Trump's political career is built on demagoguery. Hatred for and scapegoating of the "other", whether that is Mexican immigrants or Muslims or women he perceives as less than attractive or media legitimately reporting on his vitriol and corruption. He endorses and congratulates people for inflicting violence on his perceived "enemies". He bends over backwards to avoid criticism of far right racists. He endorses the tactics of violent, strongman dictators while doing all he can to antagonize long term, peaceful US allies. He then has the nerve (or maybe it's just cluelessness) to talk about the media inciting people while abdicating any responsibility for the increasing political tension and divisive tone in the country.

It's like Paisley preaching the coming apocalypse in the north over catholic civil rights or whatever political compromise was currently being negotiated and then, repeatedly, denying having made any contribution to the atmosphere in which the ensuing violence took place. It took the murder of those Quinn kids during Drumcree, after 30 years of his appalling rhetoric, for him to finally begin to see the light.

There is simply no one on the Democratic side whose entire strategy is to use demonization and dehumanization like Trump does to whip up his base. Most politicians, on both sides, realize they have some responsibility as leaders and representatives of the community. Thank f**k it wasn't Republican politicians and conservative Christians who were targeted and murdered this week. God knows where Trump would have taken it or what the response would have been. FFS he dined out for a week on the supposed Democratic "mobs" who were about to bring down the GOP and the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2018, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 11:20:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 01:46:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 01:33:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 12:21:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.

Haha.....and people affialiated with the DNC were actively planting troublemakers at Trump rallies to cause trouble.   If you get down in the dirt, expect to get a few belts in the gob

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html

Like I said, when you have evidence that Bernie or the likes encourage violence or don't immediately condemn it when done in their name, come back to us.


LOL.....he was actually accused of inciting violence by the DNC

https://people.com/celebrity/bernie-sanders-accused-of-inciting-violence-in-nevada-weighs-kentucky-recount/

So some Bernie supporters got in a heated scuffle because they were pissed off over superdelegates or whatever. Do you have any actual quotes from Bernie comparable to what Trump regularly engages in?

Are there quotes of Bernie or any other Dems congratulating people for attacking reporters or offering to pay legal costs or generally dehumanizing opponents in the way Trump casually does.

For someone who professes to hate Trump, you never miss a chance to draw a false equivalency between him and the Dems.

You must not have read the article. 

"But Reid was angered and "surprised" when Sanders responded by issuing a defiant statement in which he dismissed the accusations as "nonsense" and condemned the way in which Nevada and other states have handled their delegate process."


Maybe I dont quite understand what you and Seafoid are saying/implying

You seem to be claiming that all or most of  the violence on the right is caused by Trumps rhetoric......is that correct?

So if as you claim, Democrats dont incite their supporters to violence how do you account for all of the instances of violence inflicted upon conservatives and Trump supporters by supporters of the left?

Maybe there are just crazy violent people who support both sides and will act out regardless.

I'm saying that Trump's political career is built on demagoguery. Hatred for and scapegoating of the "other", whether that is Mexican immigrants or Muslims or women he perceives as less than attractive or media legitimately reporting on his vitriol and corruption. He endorses and congratulates people for inflicting violence on his perceived "enemies". He bends over backwards to avoid criticism of far right racists. He endorses the tactics of violent, strongman dictators while doing all he can to antagonize long term, peaceful US allies. He then has the nerve (or maybe it's just cluelessness) to talk about the media inciting people while abdicating any responsibility for the increasing political tension and divisive tone in the country.

It's like Paisley preaching the coming apocalypse in the north over catholic civil rights or whatever political compromise was currently being negotiated and then, repeatedly, denying having made any contribution to the atmosphere in which the ensuing violence took place. It took the murder of those Quinn kids during Drumcree, after 30 years of his appalling rhetoric, for him to finally begin to see the light.

There is simply no one on the Democratic side whose entire strategy is to use demonization and dehumanization like Trump does to whip up his base. Most politicians, on both sides, realize they have some responsibility as leaders and representatives of the community. Thank f**k it wasn't Republican politicians and conservative Christians who were targeted and murdered this week. God knows where Trump would have taken it or what the response would have been. FFS he dined out for a week on the supposed Democratic "mobs" who were about to bring down the GOP and the country.
Trump is a proto-fascist. He uses emotion and fear to divide people. He uses threats of violence to intimidate. Fox trades in conspiracies which he retransmits at his rallies.
Most of what he says is bullshit.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2018, 01:41:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2018, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 11:20:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 01:46:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 01:33:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 12:21:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.

Haha.....and people affialiated with the DNC were actively planting troublemakers at Trump rallies to cause trouble.   If you get down in the dirt, expect to get a few belts in the gob

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html

Like I said, when you have evidence that Bernie or the likes encourage violence or don't immediately condemn it when done in their name, come back to us.


LOL.....he was actually accused of inciting violence by the DNC

https://people.com/celebrity/bernie-sanders-accused-of-inciting-violence-in-nevada-weighs-kentucky-recount/

So some Bernie supporters got in a heated scuffle because they were pissed off over superdelegates or whatever. Do you have any actual quotes from Bernie comparable to what Trump regularly engages in?

Are there quotes of Bernie or any other Dems congratulating people for attacking reporters or offering to pay legal costs or generally dehumanizing opponents in the way Trump casually does.

For someone who professes to hate Trump, you never miss a chance to draw a false equivalency between him and the Dems.

You must not have read the article. 

"But Reid was angered and "surprised" when Sanders responded by issuing a defiant statement in which he dismissed the accusations as "nonsense" and condemned the way in which Nevada and other states have handled their delegate process."


Maybe I dont quite understand what you and Seafoid are saying/implying

You seem to be claiming that all or most of  the violence on the right is caused by Trumps rhetoric......is that correct?

So if as you claim, Democrats dont incite their supporters to violence how do you account for all of the instances of violence inflicted upon conservatives and Trump supporters by supporters of the left?

Maybe there are just crazy violent people who support both sides and will act out regardless.

I'm saying that Trump's political career is built on demagoguery. Hatred for and scapegoating of the "other", whether that is Mexican immigrants or Muslims or women he perceives as less than attractive or media legitimately reporting on his vitriol and corruption. He endorses and congratulates people for inflicting violence on his perceived "enemies". He bends over backwards to avoid criticism of far right racists. He endorses the tactics of violent, strongman dictators while doing all he can to antagonize long term, peaceful US allies. He then has the nerve (or maybe it's just cluelessness) to talk about the media inciting people while abdicating any responsibility for the increasing political tension and divisive tone in the country.

It's like Paisley preaching the coming apocalypse in the north over catholic civil rights or whatever political compromise was currently being negotiated and then, repeatedly, denying having made any contribution to the atmosphere in which the ensuing violence took place. It took the murder of those Quinn kids during Drumcree, after 30 years of his appalling rhetoric, for him to finally begin to see the light.

There is simply no one on the Democratic side whose entire strategy is to use demonization and dehumanization like Trump does to whip up his base. Most politicians, on both sides, realize they have some responsibility as leaders and representatives of the community. Thank f**k it wasn't Republican politicians and conservative Christians who were targeted and murdered this week. God knows where Trump would have taken it or what the response would have been. FFS he dined out for a week on the supposed Democratic "mobs" who were about to bring down the GOP and the country.
Trump is a proto-fascist. He uses emotion and fear to divide people. He uses threats of violence to intimidate. Fox trades in conspiracies which he retransmits at his rallies.
Most of what he says is bullshit.


That's fair enough......but what is fueling the violence on the left?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2018, 02:25:20 PM
What violence?

Antifa counter protests the neo-Nazis and alt-right and fights break out.

A deranged half-wit tried to massacre a GOP contingent playing baseball, but unless you can point to a politician using apocalyptic language and demonization in the manner of Trump inciting his actions, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

There is no "two sides of the same coin" argument here.

Once again, you appear desperate to deflect from the appalling lies, behaviour and rhetoric of a man you profess to hate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 28, 2018, 02:27:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
4 Jews murdered in a synagogue by a white supremacist. Fine people per Trump

This is for Whitey

Paul Krugman
@paulkrugman
·
8h
My point is that it's all of a piece: there's a straight line running from voodoo economics, to climate change denial, to deep state paranoia and the false flag hysteria we're seeing this weekend. And pious appeals for civility are not going to change anything 7/

First of all I'm not a Trump supporter, I didn't  vote for Trump (in either the primary or presidential election) and I actually hate Trump

Secondly do you blame Democratic rhetoric for one of Bernie's supporters shooting up a ballgame

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Last week Trump literally congratulated the congressman from Montana for his assault (for which he was convicted) on a reporter from the Guardian two years ago. He is always calling the media enemies of the people. He has joked that he will cover the legal costs for supporters at his rallies who assault protesters. He has been complaining this week that the pipe bombs were taking the focus off the caravan, using the word "bomb" in quotes. His media support and his son have endorsed the false flag bullshit, basically dismissing a real and deadly threat to leading Democratic figures as nothing but a scheme cooked up to harm him politically. He routinely dehumanizes both his political opponents and those groups he uses as scapegoats and punching bags.

When you can point to anything even remotely equivalent from the likes of Bernie, come back to us.

Haha.....and people affialiated with the DNC were actively planting troublemakers at Trump rallies to cause trouble.   If you get down in the dirt, expect to get a few belts in the gob

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html

Like I said, when you have evidence that Bernie or the likes encourage violence or don't immediately condemn it when done in their name, come back to us.

Barely mentioned in the media, who incited this democrat to commit murder?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/anti-donald-trump-campaigner-clayton-carter-shoot-republican-dead-head-george-jennings-a7895966.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/anti-donald-trump-campaigner-clayton-carter-shoot-republican-dead-head-george-jennings-a7895966.html)

Maxine incites the mob to violence:

http://www.southcarolinaliberty.com/maxine-waters-incites-the-mob-to-violence/ (http://www.southcarolinaliberty.com/maxine-waters-incites-the-mob-to-violence/)

Hillary Clinton calls for incivility:

https://pjmedia.com/trending/hillary-clinton-calls-for-incivility-against-republicans/ (https://pjmedia.com/trending/hillary-clinton-calls-for-incivility-against-republicans/)

Elevator protestor and illegal alien Ana Maria Archila admits she is a paid far left wing activist to the tune of $178K.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2018, 03:14:31 PM
Whitey

You are in denial. Fox operates a parallel reality of conspiracies and hate. This is not conservatism.

@joelockhart
·
5h

« As a country we have to come to grips that a powerful corporation, Fox News, is responsible for the systematic spread of racial and religious bigotry.  the president and his partners at Fox everyday spread bizarre conspiracies designed to  incite Americans.  It's

Eg

https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1056324117329297409/video/1


The aim of the game is preventing the emergence of a new economic system.

You have skin in the game. Your 401k.
You are supporting actors who will eventually destroy it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 02:25:20 PM
What violence?

Antifa counter protests the neo-Nazis and alt-right and fights break out.

A deranged half-wit tried to massacre a GOP contingent playing baseball, but unless you can point to a politician using apocalyptic language and demonization in the manner of Trump inciting his actions, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

There is no "two sides of the same coin" argument here.

Once again, you appear desperate to deflect from the appalling lies, behaviour and rhetoric of a man you profess to hate.

Ehhhh......the violence perpetrated on Trump supporters outside several rallies in the run up to the election

So the Bernie supporter is a deranged halfwit???

I think last weeks bomber could be described in similar terms but that wouldn't suit the narrative

So you're seriously saying that the only people Antifa attack are the alt right?

I take it you didn't see this video then

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aQZQaqbWNVI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2018, 04:06:41 PM
Bill Kristol is a well known lefty


Bill Kristol
@BillKristol
This repulsive and dangerous filth is bring spewed courtesy of a publicly owned corporation. Will no one on the board, in management, or in a position of influence at Fox speak up? Will no one act? Or is Fox perfectly happy to give bigotry sanction and violence its assistance?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2018, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 02:25:20 PM
What violence?

Antifa counter protests the neo-Nazis and alt-right and fights break out.

A deranged half-wit tried to massacre a GOP contingent playing baseball, but unless you can point to a politician using apocalyptic language and demonization in the manner of Trump inciting his actions, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

There is no "two sides of the same coin" argument here.

Once again, you appear desperate to deflect from the appalling lies, behaviour and rhetoric of a man you profess to hate.

Ehhhh......the violence perpetrated on Trump supporters outside several rallies in the run up to the election

So the Bernie supporter is a deranged halfwit???

I think last weeks bomber could be described in similar terms but that wouldn't suit the narrative

So you're seriously saying that the only people Antifa attack are the alt right?

I take it you didn't see this video then

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aQZQaqbWNVI

1. I never claimed the pipe bomber wasn't likely someone with mental issues. I don't think I've commented on him personally at all.

2. What does that link you posted prove? Other accounts of the Portland "near riot" suggest that the protestors thought the guy might have deliberately driven into their protest (it would a lot more sense for the "near rioter" shouting for someone to get his number plate for those reasons rather than, as the host snidely reckoned, so that they could find his home address).

But that's beside the point. I never said that leftists don't get involved in violence. Clearly the antifa crowd are bent on meeting the neo-Nazi/alt-right crowd in a fight. And I'm sure plenty of protests will attract people who are interested in the scuffle/thrill of the fight as well as the cause.

The issue is the likes of Trump using lies and fear mongering to rile up his base and blatantly condoning and encouraging violence. Your link (and Seamus's ludicrous ones) also raise the issue of Democratic politicians telling their supporters to get in the face of GOP politicians when they see them out and about. Of course, the context for Maxine Waters (which these links don't give) was the utter disgrace that was the Trump administration tearing toddlers away from their parents at the border as well as, later, the fact that they needed to be basically brow-beaten into even requesting the most basic of investigations into the Blasey Ford allegations.
Personally, I wouldn't be one to shout at a politician in a restaurant, but the incidents with Huckabee-Sanders, Nielson and Flake were under extraordinary circumstances and I have no issue with a politician getting yelled at for issue like that, as long as there is no violence. The GOP was just fine with this type of loud, vocal, protest back in 2010 when they were crying about the deficit (ironic, isn't it?) and the government's filthy socialist hands getting on their Medicare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2018, 05:09:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 02:25:20 PM
What violence?

Antifa counter protests the neo-Nazis and alt-right and fights break out.

A deranged half-wit tried to massacre a GOP contingent playing baseball, but unless you can point to a politician using apocalyptic language and demonization in the manner of Trump inciting his actions, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

There is no "two sides of the same coin" argument here.

Once again, you appear desperate to deflect from the appalling lies, behaviour and rhetoric of a man you profess to hate.

Ehhhh......the violence perpetrated on Trump supporters outside several rallies in the run up to the election

So the Bernie supporter is a deranged halfwit???

I think last weeks bomber could be described in similar terms but that wouldn't suit the narrative

So you're seriously saying that the only people Antifa attack are the alt right?

I take it you didn't see this video then

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aQZQaqbWNVI

1. I never claimed the pipe bomber wasn't likely someone with mental issues. I don't think I've commented on him personally at all.

2. What does that link you posted prove? Other accounts of the Portland "near riot" suggest that the protestors thought the guy might have deliberately driven into their protest (it would a lot more sense for the "near rioter" shouting for someone to get his number plate for those reasons rather than, as the host snidely reckoned, so that they could find his home address).

But that's beside the point. I never said that leftists don't get involved in violence. Clearly the antifa crowd are bent on meeting the neo-Nazi/alt-right crowd in a fight. And I'm sure plenty of protests will attract people who are interested in the scuffle/thrill of the fight as well as the cause.

The issue is the likes of Trump using lies and fear mongering to rile up his base and blatantly condoning and encouraging violence. Your link (and Seamus's ludicrous ones) also raise the issue of Democratic politicians telling their supporters to get in the face of GOP politicians when they see them out and about. Of course, the context for Maxine Waters (which these links don't give) was the utter disgrace that was the Trump administration tearing toddlers away from their parents at the border as well as, later, the fact that they needed to be basically brow-beaten into even requesting the most basic of investigations into the Blasey Ford allegations.
Personally, I wouldn't be one to shout at a politician in a restaurant, but the incidents with Huckabee-Sanders, Nielson and Flake were under extraordinary circumstances and I have no issue with a politician getting yelled at for issue like that, as long as there is no violence. The GOP was just fine with this type of loud, vocal, protest back in 2010 when they were crying about the deficit (ironic, isn't it?) and the government's filthy socialist hands getting on their Medicare.

Fox is a huge part of the problem :

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/in-the-news/chris-farrell-migrant-caravan-consists-of-mostly-males/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2018, 05:43:42 PM
Fox News is a disgrace but from day 1 many in the MSM (NY Times, CNN, MSNBC) sought to delegitimize Trumps victory.....do you not think their rhetoric has contributed to the behavior of Antifa and other violent leftists

Not satisfied with deligitimizingbthe Presidency, they are now seeking to delegitimize the Senaye, the Congress and the Supreme Court.......very very dangerous path to be going down which could/can/will/did have deadly consequences
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2018, 05:52:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 05:43:42 PM
Fox News is a disgrace but from day 1 many in the MSM (NY Times, CNN, MSNBC) sought to delegitimize Trumps victory.....do you not think their rhetoric has contributed to the behavior of Antifa and other violent leftists

Not satisfied with deligitimizingbthe Presidency, they are now seeking to delegitimize the Senaye, the Congress and the Supreme Court.......very very dangerous path to be going down which could/can/will/did have deadly consequences
Taking the piss out of Trump doesn't result in anyone dying. Spewing anti Semitic tropes about Jewish conspiracies is dangerous. You cannot compare Fox and the newspapers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2018, 05:57:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 05:43:42 PM
Fox News is a disgrace but from day 1 many in the MSM (NY Times, CNN, MSNBC) sought to delegitimize Trumps victory.....do you not think their rhetoric has contributed to the behavior of Antifa and other violent leftists

Not satisfied with deligitimizingbthe Presidency, they are now seeking to delegitimize the Senaye, the Congress and the Supreme Court.......very very dangerous path to be going down which could/can/will/did have deadly consequences

How have they "delegitimized" Trump or his victory? By reporting what he says and does? Should they ignore, for example, when he refused to disavow the support of David Duke? When he takes the side of Putin over his own administration?

The Senate, Congress? They've been stuck below 20% approval for more than a decade.

The Supreme Court? The right has been up in arms over the court for years. They wanted to lynch John Roberts after the Obamacare decision. Anthony Kennedy after gay marriage. And I think Mitch McConnell has done more than anyone in recent years to poison the country against the Supreme and lower courts.

I do agree that sooner or later, if things continue, some elected official is going to be killed. The likes of Giffords and Scalise were lucky to come out of it alive. The pipe bomb nut could have have ended up causing major carnage, not least to some poor postal worker or mailroom employee.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 28, 2018, 06:18:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 28, 2018, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2018, 02:25:20 PM
What violence?

Antifa counter protests the neo-Nazis and alt-right and fights break out.

A deranged half-wit tried to massacre a GOP contingent playing baseball, but unless you can point to a politician using apocalyptic language and demonization in the manner of Trump inciting his actions, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

There is no "two sides of the same coin" argument here.

Once again, you appear desperate to deflect from the appalling lies, behaviour and rhetoric of a man you profess to hate.

Ehhhh......the violence perpetrated on Trump supporters outside several rallies in the run up to the election

So the Bernie supporter is a deranged halfwit???

I think last weeks bomber could be described in similar terms but that wouldn't suit the narrative

So you're seriously saying that the only people Antifa attack are the alt right?

I take it you didn't see this video then

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aQZQaqbWNVI

1. I never claimed the pipe bomber wasn't likely someone with mental issues. I don't think I've commented on him personally at all.

2. What does that link you posted prove? Other accounts of the Portland "near riot" suggest that the protestors thought the guy might have deliberately driven into their protest (it would a lot more sense for the "near rioter" shouting for someone to get his number plate for those reasons rather than, as the host snidely reckoned, so that they could find his home address).

But that's beside the point. I never said that leftists don't get involved in violence. Clearly the antifa crowd are bent on meeting the neo-Nazi/alt-right crowd in a fight. And I'm sure plenty of protests will attract people who are interested in the scuffle/thrill of the fight as well as the cause.

The issue is the likes of Trump using lies and fear mongering to rile up his base and blatantly condoning and encouraging violence. Your link (and Seamus's ludicrous ones) also raise the issue of Democratic politicians telling their supporters to get in the face of GOP politicians when they see them out and about. Of course, the context for Maxine Waters (which these links don't give) was the utter disgrace that was the Trump administration tearing toddlers away from their parents at the border as well as, later, the fact that they needed to be basically brow-beaten into even requesting the most basic of investigations into the Blasey Ford allegations.
Personally, I wouldn't be one to shout at a politician in a restaurant, but the incidents with Huckabee-Sanders, Nielson and Flake were under extraordinary circumstances and I have no issue with a politician getting yelled at for issue like that, as long as there is no violence. The GOP was just fine with this type of loud, vocal, protest back in 2010 when they were crying about the deficit (ironic, isn't it?) and the government's filthy socialist hands getting on their Medicare.

Whatever suits your ideology it seems. The stronger your ideology the more you're predisposed to only seek facts that bolster it and ignore anything that differs. Proper ideology forms only after a thoughtful examination of the facts, and be somewhat malleable as you encounter new facts. For the majority once an authoritative figure leaves the first impression on one's brain that's the end of the story. Making circumstances fitting one's theory is a danger to the truth. I would still be a lefty if I did not question that deep routed Democratic Party ideology and start thinking for myself. You should consider doing likewise. Incidentally the Neocons are as equally dangerous to the US and the world as a whole as those crazy Democrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 28, 2018, 07:18:48 PM
Justice John Roberts indeed.

Michael T McKibben and Leader Technologies were the real inventors of Social Networking,
Leader hired Attorney James C Chandler and on his advice the invention was reduced to practice before he would file the patent. By doing so Chandler proceeded to steal the patent and give it to Bill Gates #2, Mark Zuckerberg, thus the world was introduced to Facebook. Crooked Chandler was also instrumental in the rise of Barack Obama.

Eventually Leader and Facebook went to court. By now several judges held substantial Facebook financial interests (along with politicians) and attorney conflicts.

Enter Chief Justice John Roberts who rallied behind Facebook without disclosing his holdings of Facebook financial interests and his relationship to Facebook's attorneys. Leader Technologies did not stand a chance. Hundreds of billions of USD were stolen.

Full story of Michael McKibben, Leader Technologies and the theft here:

http://www.fbcoverup.com/docs/library/Michael-T-McKibben-AFI-backgrounder.html (http://www.fbcoverup.com/docs/library/Michael-T-McKibben-AFI-backgrounder.html)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2018, 03:22:04 PM
I did a bit of reading over the weekend about how the GOP and Fox collude to create their
alternative reality of caravans and Kavanaughs to scare the bejaysus out of red State poor and middle class, totally polarise the country , stop any sort of solutions emerging, get the votes and then implement the policy to shaft the same voters. It is very Scooby Do.
The US is a mess.

.........




Andrew Gillum, an African American candidate for governor in Florida, was targeted by a robocall that says in a demeaning minstrel accent: "Well, hello there. I is the negro Andrew Gillum and I'll be askin' you to make me governor of this here state of Florida." His Republican opponent, Ron DeSantis, previously urged voters not to "monkey this up". Gillum said during a debate: "I'm not calling Mr DeSantis a racist – I'm simply saying the racists believe he's a racist."

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/in-the-news/chris-farrell-migrant-caravan-consists-of-mostly-males/

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
"A very big part of the Anger we see today in our society is caused by the purposely false and inaccurate reporting of the Mainstream Media that I refer to as Fake News,". It has gotten so bad and hateful that it is beyond description. Mainstream Media must clean up its act, FAST!"


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

The Fake News is doing everything in their power to blame Republicans, Conservatives and me for the division and hatred that has been going on for so long in our Country. Actually, it is their Fake & Dishonest reporting which is causing problems far greater than they understand!

https://crooked.com/articles/midterms-2016-all-over-again/

Here's some information that might come as a surprise to you if you're a casual news consumer weighing your options ahead of the midterms:
   •   Central American migrants caravanning through Mexico are not a national security threat to the United States.
   •   The caravan is not filled with criminals and "Middle Easterners."
   •   Democrats had nothing to do with the formation of the caravan.
   •   Democrats do not want the caravaners to cross the southern border undetected and disappear into the United States.
   •   People in California are not rioting about sanctuary cities, on either side of the issue.
   •   Democrats do not want to give luxury automobiles to Central American migrants or unauthorized immigrants or anyone else.
   •   Illegal immigration and crime are at near-historic lows.
   •   There is no Republican plan to cut middle-income taxes, before the election or after.
   •   Democrats have no plan to destroy Medicare.
   •   There is no $110 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia.
   •   Our arms trade with Saudi Arabia does not, and will not, generate anywhere close to a million jobs.
Republicans' campaign strategy in part entails convincing as many people as possible that the opposite of each of these bullet points is true, and judging by the at-times credulous way political media has covered their claims, they are surely having some success.
But the larger purpose of all the disinformation—about Democrats paying Muslim caravaners to infiltrate the country, and Republicans advancing a middle-class tax cut plan that doesn't exist—is to pervade the news environment with storylines that, beyond the slander and lies, aren't particularly relevant to next month's vote. And to that end, it has been a stunning success.
Credulous or critical, the news is absolutely saturated with coverage of these issues. There have been plenty of stories debunking President Trump's claims about the composition of the caravan, and the risk it poses to the United States. If you burrow into the details, you'll probably learn that Trump has fabricated a Republican middle-income tax cut plan from whole cloth, because the corporate tax cut he actually signed is terribly unpopular. But every column inch and minute of airtime spent scrutinizing fiction is lost forever and does nothing to actually inform people about the true stakes of the coming midterms.

Before 2016, the media's peculiar obsessions convinced millions of people that the choice in 2016 was between two comparably corrupt and dishonest politicians, one who had suspicious, secret emails, and another who wanted to toughen immigration laws. The fact that Trump would try to gut environmental and financial regulation, kick millions of people off their health plans, funnel the "savings" to the rich and corporations, and alter the course of American jurisprudence for a generation went almost completely uncommented on in the mainstream press, even though it was written into his agenda.




Steve Schmidt

@SteveSchmidtSES

1.Gingrich looked into the camera and said the election was about two things, " Kavanaugh and the Caravan" All day, every day, Fox News and the Trump propaganda industry spews forth an unrelenting river of conspiracy theories, venom and lunacy and like a precision guided munition
2 It finds its intended targets. Among them are the feeble minded, sick and racist. It's singular purpose is incitement and it is working. A migration of poor and desperate human souls has been turned into an invading army; a Panzer division about to crash through

3. America's southern border. The intent is as malignant as it is purposeful. There is only one goal and that is to create a frenzy of craziness before an election where the American people will have their first opportunity to repudiate the vile and filthy regime led by Trump.

4. Now we see the terrible cost of Trumpism. The lies, conspiracy theories, coded racist and anti Semitic language, intimations of violence and declarations that opponents are enemies of the state and people have activated the evil people who attempted the largest assassination
5. Plot  in American history and gunned down 11 Americans at a Temple in Pittsburgh. They have been radicalized by the contagious poison of an American President and his Fellow travelers.  The hour of pretending there is no causation between the rhetoric and the violence is over
The stated motives of these Terrorists is a recitation of the message flowing like sewage from the White House, Fox News, Judicial Watch, Mark Levine, Limbaugh and Gingrich.  It is not accidental and it is not coincidental. It is the deadly and inevitable consequence of Trump

In the right-wing fever swamps, where the president's every word is worshipped, commenters began amplifying Trump's exhortations with new details.

Trump is reportedly aware that his claims about the caravan are false. An administration official told the Daily Beast simply, "it doesn't matter if it's 100 percent accurate ... this is the play." The "play" was to demonize vulnerable people with falsehoods in order to frighten Trump's base to the polls.

Ordinarily, a politician cannot be held responsible for the actions of a deranged follower. But ordinarily, politicians don't praise supporters who have mercilessly beaten a Latino man, as "very passionate." Ordinarily, they don't offer to pay supporters' legal bills if they assault protesters on the other side. They don't praise acts of violence against the media. They don't defend Nazi rioters as "fine people." They don't justify sending bombs to their critics by blaming the media for airing criticism. Ordinarily, there is no historic surge in anti-Semitism, much of it targeted at Jewish critics, coinciding with a politician's rise. And ordinarily, presidents do not blatantly exploit their authority in an effort to terrify white Americans into voting for their party. For the past few decades, most American politicians, Republican and Democrat alike, have taken care not to urge their supporters to take matters into their own hands. Trump did everything he could to fan the flames, and nothing to restrain those who might take him at his word.

Bill Kristol

@BillKristol

This repulsive and dangerous filth is bring spewed courtesy of a publicly owned corporation. Will no one on the board, in management, or in a position of influence at Fox speak up? Will no one act? Or is Fox perfectly happy to give bigotry sanction and violence its assistance?

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/10/fox-friends-hosts-give-guest-free-rein-dismiss-terrorist-mail-bombs-left-wing-conspiracy/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

former FBI counterterrorism expert appeared Friday morning on "Fox & Friends" to peddle conspiracy theories about mail bombs sent to President Donald Trump's critics.
Suspicious packages intended for Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, CNN and other Trump foes were discovered this week, and former FBI agent Chad Jenkins said the fact that no one has been injured should be considered suspicious.
"Well, it's just one, zero-for-10 on any of these devices going off?" Jenkins told Fox News. "We still have not gotten concrete information from law enforcement whether any of these devices actually were rigged, completely ready to go."
Jenkins argued that left only two possibilities.
"One, we have the worst right-wing bomb maker in history," he said, "or we have a false flag operation, where it's a left-wing type of operation to create hysteria and to play on the hearts and minds of those independents and undecideds come the midterm."
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/10/28/media/lou-dobbs-fox-news-guest/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

Edward Luce

@EdwardGLuce
·
1h

The most effective thing Americans can do is boycott companies that advertise on Fox. They bankroll the poison that goes from the studio into Trump's head. The second is vote.

Jennifer Rubin

@JRubinBlogger
·
13h

Fox is a menace, a purveyor of conspiracy and anti-immig hate. It's where rants against Soros are commonplace and the "nationalist" pres is defended. If you're a conserv pundit what the hell are you doing on their shows? If you're an advertiser why have products assoc with Fox?
osh Marshall Retweeted


Joe Lockhart

@joelockhart
·
5h

As a country we have to come to grips that a powerful corporation, Fox News, is responsible for the systematic spread of racial and religious bigotry.  the president and his partners at Fox everyday spread bizarre conspiracies designed to  incite Americans.  It's working.

Alex Kotch



@alexkotch
·
5h

Replying to
@alexkotch
So let's review here:

—Thursday: Fox Business airs interview with ghoul who claims Soros is behind the migrant caravan
—Saturday morning: Neo-Nazi massacres 11+ Jews, his social media posts show he's claimed Jews funded caravan
—Saturday night: Fox re-airs the interview
https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1056324117329297409/video/1


Alex Kotch



@alexkotch

Guy is...seriously..."Director of Investigations."

Note that his org Judicial Watch spent tens of millions to get Gorsuch and Kavanaugh on SCOTUS. Great folks over there

https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1056324117329297409/video/1

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/27/megyn-kelly-blackface-comments-nbc-show-cancelled-what-happened

Given the timing of the cancellation of Megyn Kelly's NBC show, just a few days after she defended blackface Halloween costumes on air, it will be easy for opponents of political correctness to rally against liberal media overreach, outrage culture and corporate censure. Just as easy, perhaps, as it should've been for NBC to see how ill-fated hiring Kelly was in the first place.

Megyn Kelly's NBC show cancelled after blackface controversy
Read more

For $69m over three years, the folks at 30 Rock believed they could remake a former Fox News firebrand in their image, moving her from night to morning, from right to center, from hard news to soft. But Kelly's blackface comments, which earned rebuke from colleagues and network chairman Andy Lack, were merely the last straw.

Trump has branded NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN and MSNBC as enemies of the people, while redirecting his supporters to Fox News, which he exempts from the "mainstream" even though it's the country's most-watched news network.
For the president, such division is politically expedient. But conservatives in Hollywood and the news media, like Kelly and Greta Van Susteren, whose six-month stint at MSNBC also bombed, find themselves in limbo, forced to pull the wool over the eyes of left and centrist audiences or return to rightwing media, where full-throated devotion to Trump has become a prerequisite.

Kelly was supposed to help NBC appeal to Americans on the left and the right, but all she did was perpetuate the dangerous ignorance and anxiety many white Americans feel in an increasingly diverse America. This misguided rhetoric only drives us further apart, so it only makes sense for Kelly and NBC to part ways too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 29, 2018, 08:55:38 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44808458_10210035917333165_3849871833591447552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=e13ee961f6e0b73e4bad794bf0f23e72&oe=5C481C87)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2018, 07:59:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 29, 2018, 08:55:38 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44808458_10210035917333165_3849871833591447552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=e13ee961f6e0b73e4bad794bf0f23e72&oe=5C481C87)

Surely Fox has something to do with that. Pro NRA and conspiracy theorising with no obligation to tell
the truth (other than the honourable Shep Smith). Believe what you want?

Migrants bring disease
https://mobile.twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1057061701865144320/video/1


Conway on late night comedians

https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1056888156694499328/video/1

Caravan terrorists
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/in-the-news/chris-farrell-migrant-caravan-consists-of-mostly-males/

Ingraham caravan

https://youtu.be/mekxrYxEvEA


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 30, 2018, 09:50:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 29, 2018, 08:55:38 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44808458_10210035917333165_3849871833591447552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=e13ee961f6e0b73e4bad794bf0f23e72&oe=5C481C87)

A white guy killed two black people in Kentucky last week after trying to target a black church.

But there's been little talk about it due to him basically being upstaged by the pipe bomber and the Pittsburgh lowlife.

But anyway.... time to get back to the caravan... and Democratic mobs...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 30, 2018, 05:08:58 PM
Special Counsel has given detail to the FBI about women being offered money to make false claims about Robert Mueller . . .

Is it Soros again Seamus??!! Surely he's the only one who does this kind of thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 30, 2018, 05:12:01 PM
Not many immigrants or muslims in this line-up:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44920410_479266852593468_8998989085452271616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=202de1c74adb91f8c6ae2452adf638a9&oe=5C4FBC6C)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on October 30, 2018, 05:56:20 PM
Effective gallery, Eamonn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2018, 06:42:38 PM
This is a cracking video.Neo confederate good ol boy Jefferson Beauregard Sessions is interrupted by a Methodist quoting Scripture

https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1056957779783663617/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 30, 2018, 09:43:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 30, 2018, 05:12:01 PM
Not many immigrants or muslims in this line-up:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44920410_479266852593468_8998989085452271616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=202de1c74adb91f8c6ae2452adf638a9&oe=5C4FBC6C)

We need to have an immediate ban on white males entering the country, and a dusk curfew on white males, until we figure this thing out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 30, 2018, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 30, 2018, 05:12:01 PM
Not many immigrants or muslims in this line-up:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44920410_479266852593468_8998989085452271616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=202de1c74adb91f8c6ae2452adf638a9&oe=5C4FBC6C)
so what ? Country should just open up the borders to who ever wants to come here because of this list of whack jobs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on October 30, 2018, 11:30:44 PM
Was the 2nd most deadliest left off for any good reason Eamon?

While all were horrific and tragic in their own way Lanza and Sandy Hook for me makes me feel particularly bad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 31, 2018, 01:04:34 AM
President Trump badly needs to repeal H.R 5736. The Smith Mundt Act was amended in 2012 in order to give legal cover to main stream media when they propagandize the people and that is 95% of the time. So the government is admitting we are being lied to.

Good take on it here by former Clinton political consultant Naomi Wolf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=K7LmxyZXMw0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=K7LmxyZXMw0)

Some good comments also, a far cry from the gibberish being spewed here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 31, 2018, 02:19:24 AM
Good man Seamus... you have been really restrained lately.... no mention of Mueller harassing women.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2018, 07:35:41 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 31, 2018, 01:04:34 AM
President Trump badly needs to repeal H.R 5736. The Smith Mundt Act was amended in 2012 in order to give legal cover to main stream media when they propagandize the people and that is 95% of the time. So the government is admitting we are being lied to.

Good take on it here by former Clinton political consultant Naomi Wolf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=K7LmxyZXMw0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=K7LmxyZXMw0)

Some good comments also, a far cry from the gibberish being spewed here.
Seamus can you enlighten us to the 5%?
I was thinking maybe recipes, relationship advice and weather but that would make 7% so is the weather also a conspiracy  ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on October 31, 2018, 10:05:43 AM
Anyone following the hilarious attempt smear Bob Muller by Trump sycophant Jacob Wohl?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on October 31, 2018, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2018, 07:35:41 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 31, 2018, 01:04:34 AM
President Trump badly needs to repeal H.R 5736. The Smith Mundt Act was amended in 2012 in order to give legal cover to main stream media when they propagandize the people and that is 95% of the time. So the government is admitting we are being lied to.

Good take on it here by former Clinton political consultant Naomi Wolf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=K7LmxyZXMw0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=K7LmxyZXMw0)

Some good comments also, a far cry from the gibberish being spewed here.
Seamus can you enlighten us to the 5%?
I was thinking maybe recipes, relationship advice and weather but that would make 7% so is the weather also a conspiracy  ?

Surprised you did not throw in horoscopes to sugar coat your %.


Sports to a large extent, death notices minus some of the false flags, The rest can be taken with a grain of salt. I take a look at the front page headings every morning for a laugh. Don't buy those rags and throw the TVs out the window.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2018, 01:52:08 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on October 31, 2018, 10:05:43 AM
Anyone following the hilarious attempt smear Bob Muller by Trump sycophant Jacob Wohl?
;
Summary here:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/10/30/comically-flawed-attempt-smear-robert-mueller-explained/

But you just know that Trump cultists will actually believe this Walter Mitty shit.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on October 31, 2018, 01:53:33 PM
Quote from: Seamus on October 31, 2018, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2018, 07:35:41 AM
Quote from: Seamus on October 31, 2018, 01:04:34 AM
President Trump badly needs to repeal H.R 5736. The Smith Mundt Act was amended in 2012 in order to give legal cover to main stream media when they propagandize the people and that is 95% of the time. So the government is admitting we are being lied to.

Good take on it here by former Clinton political consultant Naomi Wolf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=K7LmxyZXMw0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=K7LmxyZXMw0)

Some good comments also, a far cry from the gibberish being spewed here.
Seamus can you enlighten us to the 5%?
I was thinking maybe recipes, relationship advice and weather but that would make 7% so is the weather also a conspiracy  ?

Surprised you did not throw in horoscopes to sugar coat your %.


Sports to a large extent, death notices minus some of the false flags, The rest can be taken with a grain of salt. I take a look at the front page headings every morning for a laugh. Don't buy those rags and throw the TVs out the window.
Seamus do you believe Sandyhook was a false flag event?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2018, 05:27:49 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/robreiner/status/1057396556653985792/video/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 31, 2018, 09:30:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2018, 05:27:49 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/robreiner/status/1057396556653985792/video/1
Theyre even lying about lying
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 01, 2018, 12:16:17 AM
Ehhh... Whaaaaa. "Lyin about lyin" You're gonna have to explain that one to me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 01, 2018, 01:28:17 AM
Quote from: omochain on November 01, 2018, 12:16:17 AM
Ehhh... Whaaaaa. "Lyin about lyin" You're gonna have to explain that one to me.

Trump (and his minnions) is lying about lying
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 01, 2018, 04:18:33 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2018, 04:35:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 31, 2018, 09:30:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2018, 05:27:49 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/robreiner/status/1057396556653985792/video/1
Theyre even lying about lying

EJ Dionne

@EJDionne
·
Oct 29

"Absent a politics of us-versus-them, Trumpism makes no sense at all. it is undeniable that #Trump--with the acquiescence and, too often, the support of his party--has heightened ethnic and racial conflict for his own political benefit."

Polarisation drives plutocracy.

EJ Dionne

@EJDionne
·
7h

"#Trump and Republicans are...lying about health care and taxes to limit losses among suburban and well educated white voters, and lying about immigration while race-baiting against individual Democratic candidates to keep the downscale white GOP base energized."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2018, 12:01:43 PM
Trump lies all the time but Krugman speculates that the GOP does so because its policies are shit and people hate them

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/opinion/republican-party-lies.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: pbat on November 02, 2018, 12:16:18 PM
Terrance O Shaughnessy is the man leading the US Army's defence ahead of the forth coming invasion. It's a good job Trump wasn't about when his family rocked up in Ellis Island or JFK or poor Terrance would be driving around after cash vans in somewhere like athlone or Dundalk.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Didn't see any outrage over Hillary's comments about all black guys looking the same anywhere imagine if trump said it be it a joke or not .!
Don lemon also showing himself for the rascist he is , if he said that about any other male group he would be fired but lots of clowns here agree with him probably
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:13:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Didn't see any outrage over Hillary's comments about all black guys looking the same anywhere imagine if trump said it be it a joke or not .!
Don lemon also showing himself for the rascist he is , if he said that about any other male group he would be fired but lots of clowns here agree with him probably

What's wrong with what Lemon said?

Are white men NOT the biggest terror threat in the US?

As for Hillary... no one cares. People just want her to f**k away off into obscurity. I don't see anyone lining up to pull her onto the campaign trail.

Trump, on the other hand, is the president, to all of our cost.

And in his case, such a joke gone wrong would have mountains of bigotry, both statements and policy, to buttress it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 04:04:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:13:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Didn't see any outrage over Hillary's comments about all black guys looking the same anywhere imagine if trump said it be it a joke or not .!
Don lemon also showing himself for the rascist he is , if he said that about any other male group he would be fired but lots of clowns here agree with him probably

What's wrong with what Lemon said?

Are white men NOT the biggest terror threat in the US?

As for Hillary... no one cares. People just want her to f**k away off into obscurity. I don't see anyone lining up to pull her onto the campaign trail.

Trump, on the other hand, is the president, to all of our cost.

And in his case, such a joke gone wrong would have mountains of bigotry, both statements and policy, to buttress it.
u like many others mistake enforcing the laws of the country as bigotry
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2018, 04:45:58 AM
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2018/11/1/18053638/cnn-carried-donald-trump-immigration-white-house
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 03, 2018, 04:54:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 04:04:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:13:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Didn't see any outrage over Hillary's comments about all black guys looking the same anywhere imagine if trump said it be it a joke or not .!
Don lemon also showing himself for the rascist he is , if he said that about any other male group he would be fired but lots of clowns here agree with him probably

What's wrong with what Lemon said?

Are white men NOT the biggest terror threat in the US?

As for Hillary... no one cares. People just want her to f**k away off into obscurity. I don't see anyone lining up to pull her onto the campaign trail.

Trump, on the other hand, is the president, to all of our cost.

And in his case, such a joke gone wrong would have mountains of bigotry, both statements and policy, to buttress it.
u like many others mistake enforcing the laws of the country as bigotry
What laws are you referring to
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 09:20:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 04:04:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:13:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Didn't see any outrage over Hillary's comments about all black guys looking the same anywhere imagine if trump said it be it a joke or not .!
Don lemon also showing himself for the rascist he is , if he said that about any other male group he would be fired but lots of clowns here agree with him probably

What's wrong with what Lemon said?

Are white men NOT the biggest terror threat in the US?

As for Hillary... no one cares. People just want her to f**k away off into obscurity. I don't see anyone lining up to pull her onto the campaign trail.

Trump, on the other hand, is the president, to all of our cost.

And in his case, such a joke gone wrong would have mountains of bigotry, both statements and policy, to buttress it.
u like many others mistake enforcing the laws of the country as bigotry


His rhetoric, policies and actions, especially now in election season, are based on stirring up fear of the "other". Currently that's the likes of the "danger" to the country of the "caravan" and trans people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2018, 10:24:08 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 09:20:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 04:04:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:13:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Didn't see any outrage over Hillary's comments about all black guys looking the same anywhere imagine if trump said it be it a joke or not .!
Don lemon also showing himself for the rascist he is , if he said that about any other male group he would be fired but lots of clowns here agree with him probably

What's wrong with what Lemon said?

Are white men NOT the biggest terror threat in the US?

As for Hillary... no one cares. People just want her to f**k away off into obscurity. I don't see anyone lining up to pull her onto the campaign trail.

Trump, on the other hand, is the president, to all of our cost.

And in his case, such a joke gone wrong would have mountains of bigotry, both statements and policy, to buttress it.
u like many others mistake enforcing the laws of the country as bigotry


His rhetoric, policies and actions, especially now in election season, are based on stirring up fear of the "other". Currently that's the likes of the "danger" to the country of the "caravan" and trans people.
EJ Donne is really top notch


@EJDionne
·
Oct 29

Absent a politics of us-versus-them, Trumpism makes no sense at all. it is undeniable that #Trump--with the acquiescence and, too often, the support of his party--has heightened ethnic and racial conflict for his own political benefit.


https://www.google.ch/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/nov/01/donald-trump-latest-election-video-racist-midterms
Donald Trump has tweeted a racially inflammatory video falsely accusing Democrats of allowing a man who murdered two police officers in California into the country.
The video, posted on social media on Wednesday, is a marker of the increasingly divisive, racially prejudiced rhetoric emanating from the White House in the run-up to the elections, and has been branded by some as one of the most racially charged national political adverts in decades.

The Trump campaign ad is the latest example of the President's willingness to lie and fear-monger in order to tear at racial and societal divides; to embrace demagoguery to bolster his own political power and the cause of the Republican midterm campaign.

In a first reaction, Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez said the ad was a sign of desperation and suggested that Trump was losing the argument over health care that is at the center of the Democratic campaign
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 10:50:30 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 09:20:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 04:04:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:13:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Didn't see any outrage over Hillary's comments about all black guys looking the same anywhere imagine if trump said it be it a joke or not .!
Don lemon also showing himself for the rascist he is , if he said that about any other male group he would be fired but lots of clowns here agree with him probably

What's wrong with what Lemon said?

Are white men NOT the biggest terror threat in the US?

As for Hillary... no one cares. People just want her to f**k away off into obscurity. I don't see anyone lining up to pull her onto the campaign trail.

Trump, on the other hand, is the president, to all of our cost.

And in his case, such a joke gone wrong would have mountains of bigotry, both statements and policy, to buttress it.
u like many others mistake enforcing the laws of the country as bigotry


His rhetoric, policies and actions, especially now in election season, are based on stirring up fear of the "other". Currently that's the likes of the "danger" to the country of the "caravan" and trans people.
not how I see it , I've heard nothing about trans people being a danger probably because they are about 0.1% of the population and deserve about that much attention
U cannot have 7/8 k people just rock up to the border and say they want in and allow it to happen if they are refugees they would have been happy in Mexico when they crossed the border there , there are 2 other caravans starting up now should they just walk in also ?  There is a 3 year wait on court hearings for people who are claiming asylum through the southern border in the meantime the asylum seeker is free to go and 80% don't show up for any immigration hearing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 10:50:30 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 09:20:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 04:04:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:13:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Didn't see any outrage over Hillary's comments about all black guys looking the same anywhere imagine if trump said it be it a joke or not .!
Don lemon also showing himself for the rascist he is , if he said that about any other male group he would be fired but lots of clowns here agree with him probably

What's wrong with what Lemon said?

Are white men NOT the biggest terror threat in the US?

As for Hillary... no one cares. People just want her to f**k away off into obscurity. I don't see anyone lining up to pull her onto the campaign trail.

Trump, on the other hand, is the president, to all of our cost.

And in his case, such a joke gone wrong would have mountains of bigotry, both statements and policy, to buttress it.
u like many others mistake enforcing the laws of the country as bigotry


His rhetoric, policies and actions, especially now in election season, are based on stirring up fear of the "other". Currently that's the likes of the "danger" to the country of the "caravan" and trans people.
not how I see it , I've heard nothing about trans people being a danger probably because they are about 0.1% of the population and deserve about that much attention
U cannot have 7/8 k people just rock up to the border and say they want in and allow it to happen if they are refugees they would have been happy in Mexico when they crossed the border there , there are 2 other caravans starting up now should they just walk in also ?  There is a 3 year wait on court hearings for people who are claiming asylum through the southern border in the meantime the asylum seeker is free to go and 80% don't show up for any immigration hearing.

Well, you haven't been paying attention if you haven't heard about the trans issue. Trump's HHS is proposing basically defining them out of existence and possibly even subjecting them to DNA testing when necessary to "prove" them either male or female.

On the caravan, who exactly is saying they should be just allowed to "walk in"? Isn't that what the CBP is there for? If there are issues with asylum backlogs, then the obvious solution is to beef up the agencies to deal with it.

Trump is the one hyping up the supposed terrorist and criminal character of the people marching and making a massive show of deploying thousands of troops to the border, as if it was some kind of military force approaching.

Oh yeah... and hyping up the conspiracy theory of Soros being behind it.

All we need is Nancy Pelosi down there leading them and the fever swamp fantasy will be complete.

No idea where your 80% not showing up for the hearing figure comes from.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2018, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 10:50:30 AM
There is a 3 year wait on court hearings for people who are claiming asylum through the southern border in the meantime the asylum seeker is free to go and 80% don't show up for any immigration hearing.
A Trump supporter who doesn't lie through their teeth is an oxymoron.

Quotehttps://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1058327944995786752

Trump keeps saying, as he did yesterday, that only "3%" of people released for an asylum hearing actually show up for court. His Justice Department says it was 89% last year, 91% in 2016, 93% in 2015, 94% in 2014. https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1107056/download#page=34 ...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 03, 2018, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 11:21:44 AM
No idea where your 80% not showing up for the hearing figure comes from.

I'm sure he'll be along promptly to give us the source. I thought it was about 10% myself but I'm ready to be corrected - I know how scrupulous Trumpeteers are about numbers.

As an aside, I wonder what to make of the fact that so many racists can't spell 'racist'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 03, 2018, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 11:21:44 AM
No idea where your 80% not showing up for the hearing figure comes from.

I'm sure he'll be along promptly to give us the source. I thought it was about 10% myself but I'm ready to be corrected - I know how scrupulous Trumpeteers are about numbers.

As an aside, I wonder what to make of the fact that so many racists can't spell 'racist'.
they may show for the first but how many show up for final ruling where they would be arrested and deported after hearing .
How much does all this cost the us taxpayer why should we be paying for all of this
As an example one job I was on there was a guetamalan guy who told me his nephew had been caught 2 times crossing the border in a short period of time the first time he was put back across border to Mexico  the second time he was locked up for 6 months then deported via airplane with a full flight of other deported guys under armed guard , how much did that one guy cost the government maybe 100k so multiply that by a couple of hundred thousand and u should be able to see why this can't be allowed to happen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:30:30 PM
On a side note one of Brett's accusers Judy Munro has admitted making the whole thing up , am I surprised ? no , wonder did avenatti have anything to do with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:36:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 03, 2018, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 11:21:44 AM
No idea where your 80% not showing up for the hearing figure comes from.

I'm sure he'll be along promptly to give us the source. I thought it was about 10% myself but I'm ready to be corrected - I know how scrupulous Trumpeteers are about numbers.

As an aside, I wonder what to make of the fact that so many racists can't spell 'racist'.
they may show for the first but how many show up for final ruling where they would be arrested and deported after hearing .
How much does all this cost the us taxpayer why should we be paying for all of this
As an example one job I was on there was a guetamalan guy who told me his nephew had been caught 2 times crossing the border in a short period of time the first time he was put back across border to Mexico  the second time he was locked up for 6 months then deported via airplane with a full flight of other deported guys under armed guard , how much did that one guy cost the government maybe 100k so multiply that by a couple of hundred thousand and u should be able to see why this can't be allowed to happen

So the 80% thing is bullshit.

There are lots of things that shouldn't happen. That is why countries have laws and regulations, enforcement of laws and regulations, and penalties for breaking laws and regulations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 03, 2018, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 03, 2018, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 11:21:44 AM
No idea where your 80% not showing up for the hearing figure comes from.

I'm sure he'll be along promptly to give us the source. I thought it was about 10% myself but I'm ready to be corrected - I know how scrupulous Trumpeteers are about numbers.

As an aside, I wonder what to make of the fact that so many racists can't spell 'racist'.
they may show for the first but how many show up for final ruling where they would be arrested and deported after hearing .
How much does all this cost the us taxpayer why should we be paying for all of this
As an example one job I was on there was a guetamalan guy who told me his nephew had been caught 2 times crossing the border in a short period of time the first time he was put back across border to Mexico  the second time he was locked up for 6 months then deported via airplane with a full flight of other deported guys under armed guard , how much did that one guy cost the government maybe 100k so multiply that by a couple of hundred thousand and u should be able to see why this can't be allowed to happen

A person's choice of what to be outraged by is always illuminating.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:46:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:30:30 PM
On a side note one of Brett's accusers Judy Munro has admitted making the whole thing up , am I surprised ? no , wonder did avenatti have anything to do with it.

From what I've read, she posed as the author of an earlier anonymous rape accusation sent to the Senate to get attention. She is recanting that SHE wrote and sent the letter and is the Jane Doe in question.

Prosecute the f**k out of her. Shit like this does sexual assault victims no favours.

Kavanaugh should sue her arse too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2018, 03:28:46 PM
This song

https://youtu.be/NRtvqT_wMeY

reminds me of the US today. The thousands dying of fentanyl overdoses, the polarisation that means nothing gets fixed and the suffering blue collar people who think Trump cares about them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 03:38:51 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 03, 2018, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 03, 2018, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 11:21:44 AM
No idea where your 80% not showing up for the hearing figure comes from.

I'm sure he'll be along promptly to give us the source. I thought it was about 10% myself but I'm ready to be corrected - I know how scrupulous Trumpeteers are about numbers.

As an aside, I wonder what to make of the fact that so many racists can't spell 'racist'.
they may show for the first but how many show up for final ruling where they would be arrested and deported after hearing .
How much does all this cost the us taxpayer why should we be paying for all of this
As an example one job I was on there was a guetamalan guy who told me his nephew had been caught 2 times crossing the border in a short period of time the first time he was put back across border to Mexico  the second time he was locked up for 6 months then deported via airplane with a full flight of other deported guys under armed guard , how much did that one guy cost the government maybe 100k so multiply that by a couple of hundred thousand and u should be able to see why this can't be allowed to happen

A person's choice of what to be outraged by is always illuminating.
even more so from 5!thousand miles away
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2018, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:46:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:30:30 PM
On a side note one of Brett's accusers Judy Munro has admitted making the whole thing up , am I surprised ? no , wonder did avenatti have anything to do with it.

From what I've read, she posed as the author of an earlier anonymous rape accusation sent to the Senate to get attention. She is recanting that SHE wrote and sent the letter and is the Jane Doe in question.

Prosecute the f**k out of her. Shit like this does sexual assault victims no favours.

Kavanaugh should sue her arse too.

That's the problem with how the media reported on the Kavanaugh hearings......breaking news, breaking news, we now have ANOTHER accuser come forward alleging misconduct against SCJ Nominee Brett Kavanaugh.....that now makes it 5 accusations.....how much longer can the Republican Party continue supporting this nominee?

Create a biased narrative and keep repeating it to sway public opinion......disgraceful carry on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2018, 05:40:33 PM


Look who got arrested for  vandalizing  the Synagogue in New York?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/11/03/nyc-synagogue-vandalism-suspect

File under can't make this $hit up

(And yes it's a link to the Daily Caller. If The NY Times had a similar report I would have linked that in. So far they haven't)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 05:40:33 PM


Look who got arrested for  vandalizing  the Synagogue in New York?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/11/03/nyc-synagogue-vandalism-suspect

File under can't make this $hit up

(And yes it's a link to the Daily Caller. If The NY Times had a similar report I would have linked that in. So far they haven't)

The story is second in their NY section on the phone app, complete with the name and photo of the suspect. They say he was taken to the psych ward.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 06:15:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:46:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:30:30 PM
On a side note one of Brett's accusers Judy Munro has admitted making the whole thing up , am I surprised ? no , wonder did avenatti have anything to do with it.

From what I've read, she posed as the author of an earlier anonymous rape accusation sent to the Senate to get attention. She is recanting that SHE wrote and sent the letter and is the Jane Doe in question.

Prosecute the f**k out of her. Shit like this does sexual assault victims no favours.

Kavanaugh should sue her arse too.

That's the problem with how the media reported on the Kavanaugh hearings......breaking news, breaking news, we now have ANOTHER accuser come forward alleging misconduct against SCJ Nominee Brett Kavanaugh.....that now makes it 5 accusations.....how much longer can the Republican Party continue supporting this nominee?

Create a biased narrative and keep repeating it to sway public opinion......disgraceful carry on

FFS, you never stop.

The same type of reporting was done on Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Al Franken and all the rest.

It's a Supreme Court nominee. Ford was already out and an additional two women. Of course they're going to report it. Especially when someone then puts their name and face to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2018, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 05:40:33 PM


Look who got arrested for  vandalizing  the Synagogue in New York?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/11/03/nyc-synagogue-vandalism-suspect

File under can't make this $hit up

(And yes it's a link to the Daily Caller. If The NY Times had a similar report I would have linked that in. So far they haven't)

The story is second in their NY section on the phone app, complete with the name and photo of the suspect. They say he was taken to the psych ward.
m

I don't have the app.....I just checked and it's not yet up on their website

Post it up so I can see how they're trying to spin it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 06:43:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 05:40:33 PM


Look who got arrested for  vandalizing  the Synagogue in New York?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/11/03/nyc-synagogue-vandalism-suspect

File under can't make this $hit up

(And yes it's a link to the Daily Caller. If The NY Times had a similar report I would have linked that in. So far they haven't)

The story is second in their NY section on the phone app, complete with the name and photo of the suspect. They say he was taken to the psych ward.
m

I don't have the app.....I just checked and it's not yet up on their website

Post it up so I can see how they're trying to spin it

Don't have the capability to copy and paste it.

Title is: Ilana Glazer Event at Synagogue is Cancelled After Anti-Semitic Grafitti Is Found
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2018, 06:44:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 06:15:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:46:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:30:30 PM
On a side note one of Brett's accusers Judy Munro has admitted making the whole thing up , am I surprised ? no , wonder did avenatti have anything to do with it.

From what I've read, she posed as the author of an earlier anonymous rape accusation sent to the Senate to get attention. She is recanting that SHE wrote and sent the letter and is the Jane Doe in question.

Prosecute the f**k out of her. Shit like this does sexual assault victims no favours.

Kavanaugh should sue her arse too.

That's the problem with how the media reported on the Kavanaugh hearings......breaking news, breaking news, we now have ANOTHER accuser come forward alleging misconduct against SCJ Nominee Brett Kavanaugh.....that now makes it 5 accusations.....how much longer can the Republican Party continue supporting this nominee?

Create a biased narrative and keep repeating it to sway public opinion......disgraceful carry on

FFS, you never stop.

The same type of reporting was done on Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Al Franken and all the rest.

It's a Supreme Court nominee. Ford was already out and an additional two women. Of course they're going to report it. Especially when someone then puts their name and face to it.
m

BS.....given the pending vote on the nomination this was a completely different scenario than the 3 you posted. It was a deliberate and dishonest attempt to swing the vote

FFS here in Boston the NPR Station was reporting on the Avenatti accusations like they were proven fact and they followed up with this BS

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2018/10/10/brookline-resident-bolsters-kavanaugh-accusers-tale%3f_amp=true

Read the headline.........now read this quote. "said Klaus, who admits she doesn't have first-hand knowledge of the incident"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2018, 06:47:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 06:43:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 05:40:33 PM


Look who got arrested for  vandalizing  the Synagogue in New York?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/11/03/nyc-synagogue-vandalism-suspect

File under can't make this $hit up

(And yes it's a link to the Daily Caller. If The NY Times had a similar report I would have linked that in. So far they haven't)

The story is second in their NY section on the phone app, complete with the name and photo of the suspect. They say he was taken to the psych ward.
m

I don't have the app.....I just checked and it's not yet up on their website

Post it up so I can see how they're trying to spin it

Don't have the capability to copy and paste it.

Title is: Ilana Glazer Event at Synagogue is Cancelled After Anti-Semitic Grafitti Is Found

I see that article. Are The NY Times hiding the background of the arrested party by folding it into the story about the event getting cancelled (which was written yesterday or the day before)

It's getting better by the minute......https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/nyregion/after-years-in-foster-care-intern-adopted-by-city-hall-catches-a-break.html#click=https://t.co/nHRZxLH05W
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:04:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 06:44:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 06:15:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 02:46:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2018, 02:30:30 PM
On a side note one of Brett's accusers Judy Munro has admitted making the whole thing up , am I surprised ? no , wonder did avenatti have anything to do with it.

From what I've read, she posed as the author of an earlier anonymous rape accusation sent to the Senate to get attention. She is recanting that SHE wrote and sent the letter and is the Jane Doe in question.

Prosecute the f**k out of her. Shit like this does sexual assault victims no favours.

Kavanaugh should sue her arse too.

That's the problem with how the media reported on the Kavanaugh hearings......breaking news, breaking news, we now have ANOTHER accuser come forward alleging misconduct against SCJ Nominee Brett Kavanaugh.....that now makes it 5 accusations.....how much longer can the Republican Party continue supporting this nominee?

Create a biased narrative and keep repeating it to sway public opinion......disgraceful carry on

FFS, you never stop.

The same type of reporting was done on Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Al Franken and all the rest.

It's a Supreme Court nominee. Ford was already out and an additional two women. Of course they're going to report it. Especially when someone then puts their name and face to it.
m

BS.....given the pending vote on the nomination this was a completely different scenario than the 3 you posted. It was a deliberate and dishonest attempt to swing the vote

FFS here in Boston the NPR Station was reporting on the Avenatti accusations like they were proven fact and they followed up with this BS

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2018/10/10/brookline-resident-bolsters-kavanaugh-accusers-tale%3f_amp=true

Read the headline.........now read this quote. "said Klaus, who admits she doesn't have first-hand knowledge of the incident"

And there were accounts from people defending Kavanaugh too. I seriously doubt all of them were present at each alleged incident or setting.

Welcome to the 21st century. No stone is left unturned with the sheer volume of media outlets after ratings and clicks. Sometimes the bullshit will be sieved out quickly as with the Mueller "allegations" this week. Sometimes it will take longer as with this Munro person.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:28:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Jaysus  Whitey aren't you a gas man altogether? Are you the ombudsman in your head?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2018, 01:46:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:28:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Jaysus  Whitey aren't you a gas man altogether? Are you the ombudsman in your head?

Haha....the sheeple who read The NY Times

The stupid cvnt s were implying last week that the graffiti at the Synagogue was inspired by Trump rhetoric. Instead the attack was carried out by an African American Democratic activist who The NY Times sponsored to go to college.......couldn't make it up

NY Times = Fake News
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2018, 01:46:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:28:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Jaysus  Whitey aren't you a gas man altogether? Are you the ombudsman in your head?

Haha....the sheeple who read The NY Times

The stupid cvnt s were implying last week that the graffiti at the Synagogue was inspired by Trump rhetoric. Instead the attack was carried out by an African American Democratic activist who The NY Times sponsored to go to college.......couldn't make it up

NY Times = Fake New s

Fake news is a translation of the original Nazi Lügenpresse.
Why would you want to use such a term?
And if the NYT is crap what media can you recommend?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2018, 07:56:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2018, 01:46:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:28:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Jaysus  Whitey aren't you a gas man altogether? Are you the ombudsman in your head?

Haha....the sheeple who read The NY Times

The stupid cvnt s were implying last week that the graffiti at the Synagogue was inspired by Trump rhetoric. Instead the attack was carried out by an African American Democratic activist who The NY Times sponsored to go to college.......couldn't make it up

NY Times = Fake New s

Fake news is a translation of the original Nazi Lügenpresse.
Why would you want to use such a term?
And if the NYT is crap what media can you recommend?

Read/listen to them all and make up your own mind......it is very important to expose yourself to views you fundamentally disagree with

WSJ and MSNBCs Morning Joe are the best-one swings right, the other left
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2018, 07:56:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2018, 01:46:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:28:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Jaysus  Whitey aren't you a gas man altogether? Are you the ombudsman in your head?

Haha....the sheeple who read The NY Times

The stupid cvnt s were implying last week that the graffiti at the Synagogue was inspired by Trump rhetoric. Instead the attack was carried out by an African American Democratic activist who The NY Times sponsored to go to college.......couldn't make it up

NY Times = Fake New s

Fake news is a translation of the original Nazi Lügenpresse.
Why would you want to use such a term?
And if the NYT is crap what media can you recommend?

Read/listen to them all and make up your own mind......it is very important to expose yourself to views you fundamentally disagree with

WSJ and MSNBCs Morning Joe are the best-one swings right, the other left
Views I fundamentally disagree with are often bullshit.
I read the Daily Telegraph and Le Figaro fairly often. I respect the conservative
point of view. I don't consider Fox to be credible. It's not conservative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2018, 08:22:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Perhaps YOU are the problem with your poisoned, warped, immediately-assume-the-worst view of liberals? Just because something isn't headline news doesn't mean its a liberal plot to suppress damaging information.

Trump and the right are in overdrive right now about the threat of immigrants as well as lying through their teeth about health insurance and you don't have a word to say about that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2018, 08:22:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Perhaps YOU are the problem with your poisoned, warped, immediately-assume-the-worst view of liberals? Just because something isn't headline news doesn't mean its a liberal plot to suppress damaging information.

Trump and the right are in overdrive right now about the threat of immigrants as well as lying through their teeth about health insurance and you don't have a word to say about that.

This was in a German paper re Trump

« Je mehr er redet, desto mehr lügt er »

The more he speaks the more he lies

EJ Dionne

@EJDionne
·
7h

"#Trump and Republicans are...lying about health care and taxes to limit losses among suburban and well educated white voters, and lying about immigration while race-baiting against individual Democratic candidates to keep the downscale white GOP base energized."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2018, 08:47:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2018, 01:46:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:28:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Jaysus  Whitey aren't you a gas man altogether? Are you the ombudsman in your head?

Haha....the sheeple who read The NY Times

The stupid cvnt s were implying last week that the graffiti at the Synagogue was inspired by Trump rhetoric. Instead the attack was carried out by an African American Democratic activist who The NY Times sponsored to go to college.......couldn't make it up

NY Times = Fake News

1. The Times did not sponsor him for college. He was helped as a youth by a foster charity which received funds from Times charitable funding.
2. Trump's rhetoric is a fact. Commenting on the cancellation of a Democratic fundraiser due to anti-semitic graffiti a couple of days after a racist loon was motivated to murder a bunch of elderly, asylum-seeker-helping Jews by Trump's caravan lies is perfectly reasonable. A bit of f**king graffiti is nickel and dime shit compared to the damage he's helped cause.
3. Label people like me a member of the "sheeple" all you like. Whatever my intelligence or gullibility, at least I've not been taken in by the utter bullshit that emanates from the American right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2018, 09:04:50 PM
The last person I saw use "sheeple" unironically was Gemma O'Doherty.

Figures.

Using it unironically is sort of a dead giveaway you're a nut job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 10:48:21 PM
I wonder if the GOP hasn't miscalculated. Trump is harping on about immigration because the 2 policies he wanted to sell- tax cuts and the Obamacare replacement- are hated.  Voters have had 2 years of Trump so know more. If the economy was really doing well they wouldn't go anyway near him.Plus the link between is rhetoric and the synagogue murders. It could be very interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 05, 2018, 05:48:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2018, 08:22:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Perhaps YOU are the problem with your poisoned, warped, immediately-assume-the-worst view of liberals? Just because something isn't headline news doesn't mean its a liberal plot to suppress damaging information.

Trump and the right are in overdrive right now about the threat of immigrants as well as lying through their teeth about health insurance and you don't have a word to say about that.

This was in a German paper re Trump

« Je mehr er redet, desto mehr lügt er »

The more he speaks the more he lies

EJ Dionne

@EJDionne
·
7h

"#Trump and Republicans are...lying about health care and taxes to limit losses among suburban and well educated white voters, and lying about immigration while race-baiting against individual Democratic candidates to keep the downscale white GOP base energized."

Seafoid....do you live here or are you commenting from 3000 miles remote?

Mr Obama told the American public their healthcare premiums would go down by $2500

My best friend, whos self employed......his premium under Obamacare went from about $25K to $45 K (plus a $10k deductible)........so Im all set with taking levtures from progressives about healthcare, but thanks anyway
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 05, 2018, 05:56:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2018, 08:47:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2018, 01:46:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:28:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Jaysus  Whitey aren't you a gas man altogether? Are you the ombudsman in your head?

Haha....the sheeple who read The NY Times

The stupid cvnt s were implying last week that the graffiti at the Synagogue was inspired by Trump rhetoric. Instead the attack was carried out by an African American Democratic activist who The NY Times sponsored to go to college.......couldn't make it up

NY Times = Fake News

1. The Times did not sponsor him for college. He was helped as a youth by a foster charity which received funds from Times charitable funding.
2. Trump's rhetoric is a fact. Commenting on the cancellation of a Democratic fundraiser due to anti-semitic graffiti a couple of days after a racist loon was motivated to murder a bunch of elderly, asylum-seeker-helping Jews by Trump's caravan lies is perfectly reasonable. A bit of f**king graffiti is nickel and dime shit compared to the damage he's helped cause.
3. Label people like me a member of the "sheeple" all you like. Whatever my intelligence or gullibility, at least I've not been taken in by the utter bullshit that emanates from the American right.

Believe whatever you want

This kid was a poster child of all thats wrong with the left and youre unwilling to own or acknoelidge it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 05, 2018, 06:41:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 05, 2018, 05:48:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2018, 08:22:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Perhaps YOU are the problem with your poisoned, warped, immediately-assume-the-worst view of liberals? Just because something isn't headline news doesn't mean its a liberal plot to suppress damaging information.

Trump and the right are in overdrive right now about the threat of immigrants as well as lying through their teeth about health insurance and you don't have a word to say about that.

This was in a German paper re Trump

« Je mehr er redet, desto mehr lügt er »

The more he speaks the more he lies

EJ Dionne

@EJDionne
·
7h

"#Trump and Republicans are...lying about health care and taxes to limit losses among suburban and well educated white voters, and lying about immigration while race-baiting against individual Democratic candidates to keep the downscale white GOP base energized."

Seafoid....do you live here or are you commenting from 3000 miles remote?

Mr Obama told the American public their healthcare premiums would go down by $2500

My best friend, whos self employed......his premium under Obamacare went from about $25K to $45 K (plus a $10k deductible)........so Im all set with taking levtures from progressives about healthcare, but thanks anyway
Whitey

We know about your best friend's health insurance because you already told us about it.
I am a globalist so I don't have to live in the Shtates :o
I am still quite concerned about your 401 (k) and I' m serious. I was reading the FT yesterday. The market is impressed by record low unemployment. It usually means things are good. The Fed models low unemployment as good and uses it to decide on interest rates.

But a lot of people are in the gig economy or working 3 jobs. Good working class jobs are rare in Wisconsin and Mississippi and Georgia . And Trump is a hoor for the projection

The Guardian

« Trump, addressing a crowd in Macon, Georgia, set out his now familiar dystopia of an America overrun with criminal aliens and radical socialists. He unleashed his firepower on Stacey Abrams, the Democrat seeking to become the first black woman governor of any state in the union.
"You put Stacey in there and you are going to get Georgia turn into Venezuela," Trump said. "Stacey Abrams wants to turn your wonderful state into a giant sanctuary city for criminal aliens, putting innocent Georgia families at the mercy of hardened criminals and

If the economy was doing well there would be no need for MAGA. MAGA means the US working class is suffering.
The Fed doesn't understand this.

So there is going to be another crash because the Fed will continue to raise rates thinking everything is grand.
Believe what you want. But it's your future that is in play . And cash is not he said she said.

https://youtu.be/cW2bqBhP4AA

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on November 05, 2018, 09:44:47 AM
I see this thread is on Page 888. The number of the beast!!

Fake news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2018, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 05, 2018, 05:56:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2018, 08:47:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2018, 01:46:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:28:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Jaysus  Whitey aren't you a gas man altogether? Are you the ombudsman in your head?

Haha....the sheeple who read The NY Times

The stupid cvnt s were implying last week that the graffiti at the Synagogue was inspired by Trump rhetoric. Instead the attack was carried out by an African American Democratic activist who The NY Times sponsored to go to college.......couldn't make it up

NY Times = Fake News

1. The Times did not sponsor him for college. He was helped as a youth by a foster charity which received funds from Times charitable funding.
2. Trump's rhetoric is a fact. Commenting on the cancellation of a Democratic fundraiser due to anti-semitic graffiti a couple of days after a racist loon was motivated to murder a bunch of elderly, asylum-seeker-helping Jews by Trump's caravan lies is perfectly reasonable. A bit of f**king graffiti is nickel and dime shit compared to the damage he's helped cause.
3. Label people like me a member of the "sheeple" all you like. Whatever my intelligence or gullibility, at least I've not been taken in by the utter bullshit that emanates from the American right.

Believe whatever you want

This kid was a poster child of all thats wrong with the left and youre unwilling to own or acknoelidge it

Why? Because Christine Quinn and a charitable organization that receives support from the Times tried to help a troubled, homeless kid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2018, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 05, 2018, 05:48:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2018, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2018, 08:22:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
If that's the new bar, then God help us

As someone who has posted here in the past from the likes of the Gateway Pundit, maybe you shouldn't be too smug.

As to the Polite lad, we will see if the Times acknowledges their previous story and his involvement with Quinn and City Hall. If they don't, they deserve the criticism.

The only reason I post from those sites is that often times the MSM don't report (or under report) information that undermines their narrative. If they did I'd be happy to post a link

Perhaps YOU are the problem with your poisoned, warped, immediately-assume-the-worst view of liberals? Just because something isn't headline news doesn't mean its a liberal plot to suppress damaging information.

Trump and the right are in overdrive right now about the threat of immigrants as well as lying through their teeth about health insurance and you don't have a word to say about that.

This was in a German paper re Trump

« Je mehr er redet, desto mehr lügt er »

The more he speaks the more he lies

EJ Dionne

@EJDionne
·
7h

"#Trump and Republicans are...lying about health care and taxes to limit losses among suburban and well educated white voters, and lying about immigration while race-baiting against individual Democratic candidates to keep the downscale white GOP base energized."

Seafoid....do you live here or are you commenting from 3000 miles remote?

Mr Obama told the American public their healthcare premiums would go down by $2500

My best friend, whos self employed......his premium under Obamacare went from about $25K to $45 K (plus a $10k deductible)........so Im all set with taking levtures from progressives about healthcare, but thanks anyway

Well tell us then how it SHOULD be dealt with.

Pretty much all you do here is whine about the supposed bias of the media against conservatives. How about a bit of insight into what YOU think SHOULD be happening with healthcare?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 05, 2018, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2018, 01:46:11 PM



Haha....the sheeple who read The NY Times

The stupid cvnt s were implying last week that the graffiti at the Synagogue was inspired by Trump rhetoric. Instead the attack was carried out by an African American Democratic activist who The NY Times sponsored to go to college.......couldn't make it up

NY Times = Fake News

Theres some sheeple on here all right Whitey,
take a bow there so we know all who it is.

Can you take the first attempt at free thought- just some sort of personal view on one topic on which you post. You appear to have the best interest of the US at heart but yet every position you espouse on economic policy, immigration, tax goes against the best long term interests of the vast majority of the people of that country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2018, 02:10:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2018, 12:51:37 PMPretty much all you do here is whine about the supposed bias of the media against conservatives. How about a bit of insight into what YOU think SHOULD be happening with healthcare?

He does tell us about all these people he knows who always seem to back up the point he's trying to make
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2018, 05:16:00 PM
Anyone willing to put money on where the election will end up?

538 has the Dems with an 85% chance of taking the House and the GOP likewise for keeping (and increasing their majority) in the Senate.

Yet, with such a narrow current margin to begin with and some of the races literally on a knife edge and "leaning" races very close to the margin of error, this COULD end up with total control of Congress held by either party.

Trump had a one in four or one in three chance going into Election Day two years ago, but squeaked it by prevailing very narrowly in a few tight races.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 05, 2018, 05:36:15 PM
Anyone see the Black Panthers out armed to the teeth supporting Stacey Abraham's?

If it was a right wing militia, we'd be in flat out melt down mode

I think it's impossible to tell how it will pan out......a lot of house races have had no polling and polls in general find it hard to predict turnout.

How much will the Kavanaugh debacle matter......could be a major own goal for the Dems and cost them 2/3 Senate seats and could cost them House seats too.

I think that the Democrats will take the House by a narrow margin, and I think the Blue wave is being overstated. I would be very nervous if I was a Democrat that complacency has set in and it's a foregone conclusion

There may also be a hidden Trump vote.....every Trump supporter I know lies to the pollsters and says they're a Democrat

(I had a cousin visiting from England last week and she and her mates went off to Glastonbury and skipped voting on Brexit because they thought it was a done deal)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2018, 06:58:44 PM
Who is Stacey Abraham?

Quote from: whitey on November 05, 2018, 05:36:15 PM(I had a cousin visiting from England last week and she and her mates went off to Glastonbury and skipped voting on Brexit because they thought it was a done deal)

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2018, 02:10:45 PMHe does tell us about all these people he knows who always seem to back up the point he's trying to make

See J70  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 05, 2018, 07:10:06 PM
Whitey long ago crossed the point of being a brick wall that cannot be spoken to. We could be having an interesting discussion on this thread about US politics, but instead it's just degenerated into Whitey v Reality.

I'm thinking of just putting him on ignore. He's a waste of time. There's no point in trying to reason with these people. They are completely brainwashed. Conservatives in America are like cult members.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2018, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 05, 2018, 05:36:15 PM
Anyone see the Black Panthers out armed to the teeth supporting Stacey Abraham's?

If it was a right wing militia, we'd be in flat out melt down mode

I think it's impossible to tell how it will pan out......a lot of house races have had no polling and polls in general find it hard to predict turnout.

How much will the Kavanaugh debacle matter......could be a major own goal for the Dems and cost them 2/3 Senate seats and could cost them House seats too.

I think that the Democrats will take the House by a narrow margin, and I think the Blue wave is being overstated. I would be very nervous if I was a Democrat that complacency has set in and it's a foregone conclusion

There may also be a hidden Trump vote.....every Trump supporter I know lies to the pollsters and says they're a Democrat

(I had a cousin visiting from England last week and she and her mates went off to Glastonbury and skipped voting on Brexit because they thought it was a done deal)

If most of us here had our way, NO ONE would be able to don assault weapons and try to look menacing!

But anyway, get back to us when this becomes anything more then an isolated incident for the left. I'm sure if the Daily Caller or whoever is really interested, there's plenty of minute men and the likes out there doing similar.

You must know a lot of connected people (or else I'm completely cut off from reality in NYC) - I don't know ANYONE who has ever mentioned being contacted by a political pollster, never mind lying to them for whatever reason. I guess your friends don't have the courage of their convictions.

We will see what happens - SNL did a skit the other night on Democrats being in a state of high anxiety over the polls after 2016. Early turnout is way up in 2014, whatever that will mean.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 05, 2018, 08:03:04 PM
Actually they are much clever than you give them credit for

They do it to lull the Democrats into a false sense of security in the hope of  suppressing their turnout
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 05, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
If they ran the Brexit vote again there would be 2 million more young voters and 1.x million dead Brexit voters and remain would win.
Same in the US. The GOP crew are old and white and they can't stop age. Plus Trump doubled down on hate , turning off moderates. And the GOP can't sell tax cuts or healthcare. I think the GOP will suffer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 05, 2018, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2018, 06:58:44 PM
Who is Stacey Abraham?

Quote from: whitey on November 05, 2018, 05:36:15 PM(I had a cousin visiting from England last week and she and her mates went off to Glastonbury and skipped voting on Brexit because they thought it was a done deal)

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2018, 02:10:45 PMHe does tell us about all these people he knows who always seem to back up the point he's trying to make

See J70  ;)

Believe what you want. That conversation took place in Manhattan last Thursday night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 05, 2018, 09:44:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 05, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
If they ran the Brexit vote again there would be 2 million more young voters and 1.x million dead Brexit voters and remain would win.
Same in the US. The GOP crew are old and white and they can't stop age. Plus Trump doubled down on hate , turning off moderates. And the GOP can't sell tax cuts or healthcare. I think the GOP will suffer.

Indeed. Voter suppression and gerrymandering can only get conservatives so far.  A reckoning will come eventually. I can't wait until the day when I'm whipping them in the fields.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 06, 2018, 08:08:37 AM
Daniel Dale

@ddale8
·
58m

"We are the super-elites. We are the super-elites," Trump says after telling supporters in Cape Girardeau, Missouri that they make more money than the supposed  elites « 

The scale of ignorance in the States is shocking. And it was engineered.

Imagine a Fianna Fáil Taoiseach telling poor people in Manorhamilton that they earned more money than people in D4.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2018, 08:35:19 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/3/another-kavanaugh-accuser-admits-fabricating-rape-/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 05, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
If they ran the Brexit vote again there would be 2 million more young voters and 1.x million dead Brexit voters and remain would win.
Same in the US. The GOP crew are old and white and they can't stop age. Plus Trump doubled down on hate , turning off moderates. And the GOP can't sell tax cuts or healthcare. I think the GOP will suffer.

You have to remember however that people turn more right wing as they age. So just because a hippy liberal leftie type may have voted dem through their youth, when they enter the world of employment they might suddenly gain an aversion to high tax rates and over zealous public spending.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 06, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 05, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
If they ran the Brexit vote again there would be 2 million more young voters and 1.x million dead Brexit voters and remain would win.
Same in the US. The GOP crew are old and white and they can't stop age. Plus Trump doubled down on hate , turning off moderates. And the GOP can't sell tax cuts or healthcare. I think the GOP will suffer.

You have to remember however that people turn more right wing as they age. So just because a hippy liberal leftie type may have voted dem through their youth, when they enter the world of employment they might suddenly gain an aversion to high tax rates and over zealous public spending.
Lots of Fox viewers vote and have money but are ignorant.The cohort leaving youth to become conservative is better educated and less likely to be as rabid. There is no party for them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 06, 2018, 12:53:33 PM
Early votes alone in three states with competitive races, Texas, Arizona and Nevada, exceeded total midterm turnout in 2014.(Guardian)

I think Beto O Rourke will beat Cruz. Hon Cavan
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 05, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
If they ran the Brexit vote again there would be 2 million more young voters and 1.x million dead Brexit voters and remain would win.
Same in the US. The GOP crew are old and white and they can't stop age. Plus Trump doubled down on hate , turning off moderates. And the GOP can't sell tax cuts or healthcare. I think the GOP will suffer.

You have to remember however that people turn more right wing as they age. So just because a hippy liberal leftie type may have voted dem through their youth, when they enter the world of employment they might suddenly gain an aversion to high tax rates and over zealous public spending.

You mean "over zealous spending" on them ones over there.

Because the US right doesn't give a f**k about public expenditure as long as it personally benefits them and the issues that THEY care about.

I'm well into my 40s now. When is this switch going to go off in my brain that will apparently turn me into a right wing reactionary railing about the good old days and cowering in fear of big government and brown people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 06, 2018, 01:35:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 05, 2018, 09:44:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 05, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
If they ran the Brexit vote again there would be 2 million more young voters and 1.x million dead Brexit voters and remain would win.
Same in the US. The GOP crew are old and white and they can't stop age. Plus Trump doubled down on hate , turning off moderates. And the GOP can't sell tax cuts or healthcare. I think the GOP will suffer.

Indeed. Voter suppression and gerrymandering can only get conservatives so far.  A reckoning will come eventually. I can't wait until the day when I'm whipping them in the fields.
the salsa dancing must have really toughened u up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2018, 01:38:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2018, 12:53:33 PM
Early votes alone in three states with competitive races, Texas, Arizona and Nevada, exceeded total midterm turnout in 2014.(Guardian)

I think Beto O Rourke will beat Cruz. Hon Cavan

Real Clear Politics has Cruz up by nearly 7 points.

And this is Texas we're talking about!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 06, 2018, 01:46:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2018, 01:38:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2018, 12:53:33 PM
Early votes alone in three states with competitive races, Texas, Arizona and Nevada, exceeded total midterm turnout in 2014.(Guardian)

I think Beto O Rourke will beat Cruz. Hon Cavan

Real Clear Politics has Cruz up by nearly 7 points.

And this is Texas we're talking about!
yes the Latino challenger Robert Francis o rourke son of pat might not make it this time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 06, 2018, 02:13:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2018, 01:38:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2018, 12:53:33 PM
Early votes alone in three states with competitive races, Texas, Arizona and Nevada, exceeded total midterm turnout in 2014.(Guardian)

I think Beto O Rourke will beat Cruz. Hon Cavan

Real Clear Politics has Cruz up by nearly 7 points.

And this is Texas we're talking about!
538 as well
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2018-midterm-election-forecast/senate/

But Trump was honestly crap for the last 4 weeks for anyone who was educated beyond primary school .
And are women going to support the GOP like they did 2 years ago ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2018, 02:51:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 05, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
If they ran the Brexit vote again there would be 2 million more young voters and 1.x million dead Brexit voters and remain would win.
Same in the US. The GOP crew are old and white and they can't stop age. Plus Trump doubled down on hate , turning off moderates. And the GOP can't sell tax cuts or healthcare. I think the GOP will suffer.

You have to remember however that people turn more right wing as they age. So just because a hippy liberal leftie type may have voted dem through their youth, when they enter the world of employment they might suddenly gain an aversion to high tax rates and over zealous public spending.

You mean "over zealous spending" on them ones over there.

Because the US right doesn't give a f**k about public expenditure as long as it personally benefits them and the issues that THEY care about.

I'm well into my 40s now. When is this switch going to go off in my brain that will apparently turn me into a right wing reactionary railing about the good old days and cowering in fear of big government and brown people?

I don't know seafoid but I'm in my 30s and it's went for me as well as others I know my same age.
Title: Re: The slobbering love affair thread....
Post by: seafoid on November 06, 2018, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 24, 2009, 02:55:14 PM
TO
Where do you stand on the Geithner plan?
I'm not sure to which bill of goods you refer- can you elaborate (sorry if I'm being lazy not searching back through previous threads but I'm getting older you see...)
HB
But the typical voter is older


Interesting development today with GOP people turning away from Trump

John Weaver
(@jwgop)
Please, today, white moderates cannot be part of going backwards in this country. Please join so many others: women, people of color & young people in rejecting hate & division. Vote for America's future. Be a #DemocratForADay I am #CountryOverParty #Courage

Mark Salter
(@MarkSalter55)
Vote For the Democrat (in most cases). That feels weird to write. But the bigger the rebuke of Trump the better for the country. Resist.



Robert E Kelly

@Robert_E_Kelly

My post on the midterm. I've been a registered Republican my whole life but just voted a straight Dem ticket for the first time ever,including for a candidate I thought inferior to his GOP opponent. Trump is huge threat to US liberalism & constitutionalism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2018, 09:06:25 PM
Nate Silver's latest forecasts:

88% chance of Dems taking the House.
81% chance of Repukelicans keeping the Senate.
Dems to pick up 8 more Governorships.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2018, 09:10:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2018, 12:53:33 PM
Early votes alone in three states with competitive races, Texas, Arizona and Nevada, exceeded total midterm turnout in 2014.(Guardian)

I think Beto O Rourke will beat Cruz. Hon Cavan

As much as I'd like to see it, I'd be surprised if Cruz gets beaten there. Either way, O'Rourke has shown that you can build a good campaign on net-roots contributions. Howard Deane pioneered that approach and was doing fine until his "I have a scream" speech. Bernie built a massive campaign on it and to this day I think he was blocked by the Dem party establishment.

I wish more Dems would get with the program and dump the special interest donations. You don't have to go down that road anymore. If you build a campaign on small contributions it frees you up to support policies that the people actually support.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 07, 2018, 02:21:06 AM
Interesting results in so far. No blue wave. Texas and Florida too tight to call so far.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2018, 02:39:24 AM
There's this from Florida.  Ex-felons get to vote again.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18052374/florida-amendment-4-felon-voting-rights-results
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2018, 03:31:17 AM
Dems looking likely to take the House now. Probably by 15-20 seats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on November 07, 2018, 04:23:11 AM
Cruz held on and Gillum beaten in Some of the big name races.
Country divided along racial wealth and education levels
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on November 07, 2018, 04:39:59 AM
And, ironically, if the now-enfranchised ex-felons of Florida had been able to vote, Gillum would have won.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 04:45:57 AM
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/midterm-elections/2018/11/6/18066648/midterms-2018-trump-republicans-losses-impeachment-congress


When I talked with Sanford, he was comfortable with his loss but depressed by the way he saw his party becoming a cult of personality.

"If you read [Friederich] Hayek's book The Road to Serfdom," he said, "what it talks about is how in open political systems, over time, they become more and more dysfunctional, to the point that the electorate gets frustrated. Then a strongman comes along and says, 'Look, I'll take care of these problems for you.' You're going to give him a couple freedoms, but 'I'll take care of these problems for you.' And the deal is struck. That's obviously the story of the rise of Hitler."
"We're playing with some of those same things," he says.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2018, 10:15:29 AM
We'll be having a look at those dodgy tax returns now Donald thank you!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 10:25:19 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 07, 2018, 04:23:11 AM
Cruz held on and Gillum beaten in Some of the big name races.
Country divided along racial wealth and education levels
Gillum was very close though

What is really interesting is to almost total purge of non Trumpists from the GOP. Flake, corker retired for example.
They are basically saying fukc you to the moderates who they need in the presidential elections to get over the line.
And they didn't campaign on the economy
Hard to see Trump winning in 2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 07, 2018, 12:02:06 PM
Times they are a'changing.  The election has also seen two Muslim women, two Native American women, one of whom is gay, elected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 07, 2018, 12:16:32 PM
Will the election results give rise to more outrages by white male anglo saxon protestant gun nuts?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AZOffaly on November 07, 2018, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 07, 2018, 12:16:32 PM
Will the election results give rise to more outrages by white male anglo saxon protestant gun nuts?

I don't think the election results were that comprehensive were they? I was watching CNN as the results were coming in and the consensus was that this was a good night for the Dems in the House of Reps, but a bad night in the Senate. GOP won a bigger majority in the Senate. They also won most of the Governor elections I think?

It's good to have a counter balance in Congress, but I don't think this constitutes a 'Blue Wave'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 12:26:04 PM
Just like there was never a Catholic Prime Minister or First Minister of NI or a Palestinian prime minister of Israel there has never been a Native American US State Governor. Settlers are the same everywhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 07, 2018, 12:29:21 PM
The f**king California 48th going blue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 12:31:52 PM
Just like there was never a Catholic Prime Minister or First Minister of NI or a Palestinian prime minister of Israel there has never been a Native American US State Governor. Settlers are the same everywhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 12:58:13 PM
Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota and South Dakota each have one House Seat because of very low population. About 1% of House votes.
They have 8 Senate seats in total. 4%
And in a polarised system they guarantee GOP influence beyond its vote percentage.
As does gerrymandering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2018, 01:20:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 10:25:19 AM
Quote from: heganboy on November 07, 2018, 04:23:11 AM
Cruz held on and Gillum beaten in Some of the big name races.
Country divided along racial wealth and education levels
Gillum was very close though

What is really interesting is to almost total purge of non Trumpists from the GOP. Flake, corker retired for example.
They are basically saying fukc you to the moderates who they need in the presidential elections to get over the line.
And they didn't campaign on the economy
Hard to see Trump winning in 2020
I think it's more likely the Democrats will win the White House in 2020. But the problem for them is that it's hard to see how they can take back the senate in the near future because the Republicans have an inbuilt advantage for the simple reason that there are more red-leaning states than blue-leaning states and the make up of the senate is increasingly aligning with how states vote in presidential elections, with very few exceptions.

If the current patterns continue, future Democratic presidents won't have the senate on their side, whereas any future Republican presidents will.

That means that a Democratic president will find it very difficult to get any future Supreme Court justices confirmed and pretty much impossible to implement much needed healthcare reform, given that the Republicans are only interested in obstructionism of a Democratic president.

It'll take some states permanently flipping from red to blue to change things. Texas, Georgia and Arizona could flip blue in the future, but that's still a good way away yet.

Gridlock awaits and it's difficult to see how that'll be negated.

The behaviour of the Republican party over the last decade in particular (in reality you could go back much further than that) has exposed a massive flaw in the US political system. When one party are effectively political terrorists and have an inbuilt advantage in one branch of the federal government, nothing can get done, and the people suffer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 07, 2018, 01:31:06 PM
The Senate system is in place to stop one party focusing on urban centres. Democrats have largely ignored the rural states and now pay the price.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2018, 01:45:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 07, 2018, 01:31:06 PM
The Senate system is in place to stop one party focusing on urban centres. Democrats have largely ignored the rural states and now pay the price.
Bullshit. The Republican agenda works most against those in rural states but they win those because they decided to make politics about race and culture and fear and hatred and appeal to the very worst in humanity, rather than make it about actual real issues, where they are totally bankrupt.

People in these states routinely vote against their own interests. Look at Iowa, where the economy completely depends on Mexican labour, yet you have white supremacist sc**bag Steve King shouting to deport the very labour on which that state depends. Rinse and repeat elsewhere. They are political sewer dwellers.

It's the people in these very states that would most benefit from your standard Democratic agenda of a national health service, labour laws etc.

A large proportion of the US has simply lost its mind and has openly embraced fascism, and it's hijacking the majority who have not.

Look at Illinois 3 - an actual Nazi and Holocaust denier got 26% of the vote. That kind of outright hatred has completely infested the mainstream of the Republican party.

The rest of the world looks on with horror because American fascism is very real and it's very dangerous for the world.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2018, 01:57:32 PM
Kavanaugh carry on just cost the Democrats about 5 senate seats.....delighted at last nights result

Keep her lit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2018, 02:00:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2018, 01:57:32 PM
Kavanaugh carry on just cost the Democrats about 5 senate seats.....delighted at last nights result

Keep her lit

https://twitter.com/dril/status/134787490526658561?lang=en
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 07, 2018, 02:05:31 PM
Some perspective here - Tea Party Revolution in 2010 saw Republicans win the midterms by 6.7 percent - net gain of 68 House Seats. They then, in conjunction with governors and state legislators used redistricting rules to gerrymander the electoral map.

The result is that though the Dems this year have outperformed 2010 (7% rather than 6.7) they seem set for a seat gain of max 30 or so.

They were also facing an incredibly difficult Senate Map - which 538 had consistently called as only a 1 in 7  chance of the Dems taking it back.

Dems put a lot of faith in their "rock star" candidates - too much. Abrams was trying to become the first black woman to govern Georgia, Gillum's primary win was a big shock and the only reason that the polls were so close was that De Santis was such a racist clutz, and Beto was consistently rated as only a 1 in 5 chance to beat Cruz. Yet the expectation around all three was unrealistic and no one should be throwing themselves out the window because they lost (and Abrams is still in it - if she makes it to a run off, then the Georgia Supreme Court will have to reinstate those voters they said had been suppressed but it was too close to the election for that decision to be implemented - could be even closer in December).

Reasons for Dems to be cheerful -

They have the House and subpoena power - let the games begin!

They have flipped 7 governorships so far - they can begin to unravel the Republican gerrymander, with a clear majority of Americans in Democratic run states

They have picked up State House and Senate seats all over the country - which again will be crucial to stop vote suppression but will also be important in putting in infrastructure for 2020

Trump won white women in 2016 - he lost them by a lot last night - without them, it becomes very difficult to plot a path to reelection. It will be made even more difficult by states like Michigan and Wisconsin going Democratic as they did last night.

Very strong, very solid performance and the Dems can look forward to putting in the reforms that will see them getting greater returns for the same type of turnout in future elections.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2018, 02:19:02 PM
I was getting flashbacks from 2016 when I looked at 538 around 8pm ET and the odds of the Dems taking the House had dropped from 85% the last few days and up to 6pm, down to 53%!

Then it went up to 65% and back down to mid-50s over the next 90 minutes as more data came in, before finally shooting back up to the high 80s/low 90s around 10pm.

I wasn't expecting anything but a GOP gain in the Senate, but losing the House would have been pretty sickening.

May not have been a "blue wave", but that is partly down to the playing field. Some of those seats the Dems were defending would have been like the GOP defending a NY Senate seat, while the GOP simply has an inbuilt advantage with the nature of the Senate representation and the redistricting they did after 2010.

Despite the Dems winning the House though, I just can't get optimistic. The next two years is just going to be a sickening, partisan storm with Trump right in the centre. I would like to see him and the GOP work together with the Dems on stuff like infrastructure, healthcare and immigration, but it is probably not going to happen. Instead, there will be no compromising, the Muller report will come out, the Dems will start issuing subpoenas and there will be complete legislative gridlock and nastiness. The only thing that will happen is that Mitch McConnell will sit there lining up and rubber stamping ridiculously partisan, right wing judges at all levels of the Federal judiciary and Trump will double down on bigotry and demonization as the next presidential election cycle gets going and struggles with the House committees start making news.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2018, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2018, 01:57:32 PM
Kavanaugh carry on just cost the Democrats about 5 senate seats.....delighted at last nights result

Keep her lit

You not giving Trump credit for his fear and loathing tour the past few weeks?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2018, 01:57:32 PM
Kavanaugh carry on just cost the Democrats about 5 senate seats.....delighted at last nights result

Keep her lit

The Republicans fell hard in conservative-leaning metro areas and big cities, the New York Time's Jonathan Martin points out.

The underlying question being whether Trump's 2016 coalition holds for 2020. Will places like this return to the Republican fold in 2020? Or will Trump's (presumed) presence in that race set up an even sharper repudiation of Trump Republicanism?

Jonathan Martin
(@jmartNYT)
Charleston
Salt Lake
Okla City
KC
Atlanta
Richmond
Va Beach
Houston
Dallas
Des Moines
The OC

The House GOP majority collapsed Tues bc even conservative-leaving metros can't abide Trump Republicanism https://t.co/M4hcudQpCH
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2018, 03:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2018, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2018, 01:57:32 PM
Kavanaugh carry on just cost the Democrats about 5 senate seats.....delighted at last nights result

Keep her lit

You not giving Trump credit for his fear and loathing tour the past few weeks?

That may have got a couple of them over the line, but the tide turned in the Republicans favor right after the Kavanaugh battle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 07, 2018, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2018, 02:19:02 PM
I was getting flashbacks from 2016 when I looked at 538 around 8pm ET and the odds of the Dems taking the House had dropped from 85% the last few days and up to 6pm, down to 53%!

Then it went up to 65% and back down to mid-50s over the next 90 minutes as more data came in, before finally shooting back up to the high 80s/low 90s around 10pm.

I wasn't expecting anything but a GOP gain in the Senate, but losing the House would have been pretty sickening.

May not have been a "blue wave", but that is partly down to the playing field. Some of those seats the Dems were defending would have been like the GOP defending a NY Senate seat, while the GOP simply has an inbuilt advantage with the nature of the Senate representation and the redistricting they did after 2010.

Despite the Dems winning the House though, I just can't get optimistic. The next two years is just going to be a sickening, partisan storm with Trump right in the centre. I would like to see him and the GOP work together with the Dems on stuff like infrastructure, healthcare and immigration, but it is probably not going to happen. Instead, there will be no compromising, the Muller report will come out, the Dems will start issuing subpoenas and there will be complete legislative gridlock and nastiness. The only thing that will happen is that Mitch McConnell will sit there lining up and rubber stamping ridiculously partisan, right wing judges at all levels of the Federal judiciary and Trump will double down on bigotry and demonization as the next presidential election cycle gets going and struggles with the House committees start making news.

Yep, there is a real roller coaster sense to election watching, ever since the Brexit result.

I would say, though, that you need to embrace the gridlock.

The chief failing of the Obama administration was that they didn't know their enemy. Obama himself used to say that after Obamacare was passed the "fever would break" on the Republican side. Far from it. The Republicans have long since departed from being a party that respects democratic institutions and were on that road a long time before Trump arrived - as per Benghazi, Merrick Garland, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. They are, as it stands, a quasi-fascist party, whose only real path to long term survival is to subvert the electoral system to allow for minority rule.

Noam Chomsky had already identified them as an existential threat, not just to America, but to humanity. He did so again this week.

The upshot of their losses in the House and the gains they have made in the Senate is that any last remaining moderates, a la Corker and Flake (although they were both less than useless and cowardly in their "resistance" to Trump) are gone from Capitol Hill. You now only have Kool Aid drinkers and bitter enders like Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz, Louie Gohmert and the openly fascist Steve king, backed up by swivel eyed loons like Marsha Blackburn et al in the Senate. This is the Gotterdamerung - these guys are dug into the bunker and they will take the Republic down before they go. With Trump gormlessly facilitating them, they have no incentive to change, so even if Dems are foolish enough to offer them any bipartisan deals, you can be guaranteed they will demand poison pill entitlement reform with each one - to clear up a deficit they have created with their tax cut giveaway. They are not interested in governing for anyone outside their own constituency - indeed, a lot of the Evangelicals may not be interested in governing at all, given their lust for the Rapture.

The Republican party as it stands must be utterly defeated. Their numbers must be reduced to such an extent that the process of self analysis that began but was aborted in 2012, will be returned to. That should hopefully lead to a party that can start making a case for conservatism whilst appealing the electorate economically, but also accepting some core truths - diversity is inevitable and should be welcomed, climate change is being exacerbated by man's actions and is an existential threat to our survival, and that unlimited corporate influence in politics is damaging to democracy.

But until then, do not even think about bipartisanship. Remember Garland, the fiscal cliff, their deficit hawkishness, and their subsequent running up of the deficit to transfer wealth to the one percent. They cannot be trusted and should only be defeated.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 07, 2018, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2018, 02:19:02 PM
I was getting flashbacks from 2016 when I looked at 538 around 8pm ET and the odds of the Dems taking the House had dropped from 85% the last few days and up to 6pm, down to 53%!

Then it went up to 65% and back down to mid-50s over the next 90 minutes as more data came in, before finally shooting back up to the high 80s/low 90s around 10pm.

I wasn't expecting anything but a GOP gain in the Senate, but losing the House would have been pretty sickening.

May not have been a "blue wave", but that is partly down to the playing field. Some of those seats the Dems were defending would have been like the GOP defending a NY Senate seat, while the GOP simply has an inbuilt advantage with the nature of the Senate representation and the redistricting they did after 2010.

Despite the Dems winning the House though, I just can't get optimistic. The next two years is just going to be a sickening, partisan storm with Trump right in the centre. I would like to see him and the GOP work together with the Dems on stuff like infrastructure, healthcare and immigration, but it is probably not going to happen. Instead, there will be no compromising, the Muller report will come out, the Dems will start issuing subpoenas and there will be complete legislative gridlock and nastiness. The only thing that will happen is that Mitch McConnell will sit there lining up and rubber stamping ridiculously partisan, right wing judges at all levels of the Federal judiciary and Trump will double down on bigotry and demonization as the next presidential election cycle gets going and struggles with the House committees start making news.

Yep, there is a real roller coaster sense to election watching, ever since the Brexit result.

I would say, though, that you need to embrace the gridlock.

The chief failing of the Obama administration was that they didn't know their enemy. Obama himself used to say that after Obamacare was passed the "fever would break" on the Republican side. Far from it. The Republicans have long since departed from being a party that respects democratic institutions and were on that road a long time before Trump arrived - as per Benghazi, Merrick Garland, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. They are, as it stands, a quasi-fascist party, whose only real path to long term survival is to subvert the electoral system to allow for minority rule.

Noam Chomsky had already identified them as an existential threat, not just to America, but to humanity. He did so again this week.

The upshot of their losses in the House and the gains they have made in the Senate is that any last remaining moderates, a la Corker and Flake (although they were both less than useless and cowardly in their "resistance" to Trump) are gone from Capitol Hill. You now only have Kool Aid drinkers and bitter enders like Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz, Louie Gohmert and the openly fascist Steve king, backed up by swivel eyed loons like Marsha Blackburn et al in the Senate. This is the Gotterdamerung - these guys are dug into the bunker and they will take the Republic down before they go. With Trump gormlessly facilitating them, they have no incentive to change, so even if Dems are foolish enough to offer them any bipartisan deals, you can be guaranteed they will demand poison pill entitlement reform with each one - to clear up a deficit they have created with their tax cut giveaway. They are not interested in governing for anyone outside their own constituency - indeed, a lot of the Evangelicals may not be interested in governing at all, given their lust for the Rapture.

The Republican party as it stands must be utterly defeated. Their numbers must be reduced to such an extent that the process of self analysis that began but was aborted in 2012, will be returned to. That should hopefully lead to a party that can start making a case for conservatism whilst appealing the electorate economically, but also accepting some core truths - diversity is inevitable and should be welcomed, climate change is being exacerbated by man's actions and is an existential threat to our survival, and that unlimited corporate influence in politics is damaging to democracy.

But until then, do not even think about bipartisanship. Remember Garland, the fiscal cliff, their deficit hawkishness, and their subsequent running up of the deficit to transfer wealth to the one percent. They cannot be trusted and should only be defeated.
I agree.

Given their attitude to climate change the Trumpy GOP are like the Nazis. They have to be removed from the system. As Tammany Hall was.
Maybe change can come from inside because I think trumpism is for losers.
The only way forward is to unite people. Division and polarisation are designed by the 1%.
And we need a new economic system .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 05:40:15 PM
One of the things about now is the return of concepts from the 30s. Deflation. Antisemitism. White nationalism. The Lügenpresse/Fake News/believe what you want.

Yesterday Jim Crow came back. Jim Crow was the systemic disenfranchisement of African Americans in Dixie that only ended in the 1960s.

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/575095/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2018, 06:10:11 PM
Perhaps this should be in the WTF thread, but a dead, pro-Trump, pimp/brothel operator won a state assembly ticket in Nevada as a Republican.  :o ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2018, 06:16:14 PM
Do all journalists at Trump's rare press conferences have to take a doormat test before being allowed in?

They're pathetic in what they let him away with.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 06:21:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 07, 2018, 06:16:14 PM
Do all journalists at Trump's rare press conferences have to take a doormat test before being allowed in?

They're pathetic in what they let him away with.
Why do they even  bother going? All they do is feed him attention.
And he is so mendacious. They should ignore him and focus on what the swine does.


Dan Rather

@DanRather

Any media operation that acts as a stenographer for this president, in headlines or tweets, is at risk for sending false information into the world. There is no joy in saying this, but he lies. And it is the job for all of us not to serve as a megaphone for those lies.

Laurence Tribe

@tribelaw
·
2h

If only press outlets had the guts to go dark on Trump when he's just doing his BS shtick and not making real news, he'd wilt like the wicked witch — like a hologram that comes to life only with the floodlights on. But if wishes were horses . . .

@ezraklein

When Obama gave a careful speech about manufacturing policy, it didn't get live coverage. If Trump promises he's going make good TV by lying about the caravan and slandering immigrants, CNN goes live. "Newsworthy" has to mean more than this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
Sessions fired as AG
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on November 07, 2018, 08:15:33 PM
Matthew Whitake is replacing Sessions.  He is on record saying that the Mueller probe has gone too far.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2018, 08:36:24 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
Sessions fired as AG
Key word.

Not "has resigned as".

American fascism is mobilising for the putsch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 07, 2018, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on November 07, 2018, 08:15:33 PM
Matthew Whitake is replacing Sessions.  He is on record saying that the Mueller probe has gone too far.

Here is an article Whitaker wrote in 2017

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/06/opinions/rosenstein-should-curb-mueller-whittaker-opinion/index.html

I can see why Trump wants him in the AG role.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 07, 2018, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
Sessions fired as AG

I liked that Session put this as the first sentence of his "resignation" letter..

"At your request, I am submitting my resignation."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
Sessions fired as AG


https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1056957779783663617/video/1

It shows how weird the age of Trump is that people have sympathy for a neoconfederate like Jefferson Beauregard Sessions. The French Revolution must have been like this with league tables of evil .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 09:27:16 PM
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1641682002
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2018, 09:31:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
Sessions fired as AG


https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1056957779783663617/video/1

It shows how weird the age of Trump is that people have sympathy for a neoconfederate like Jefferson Beauregard Sessions. The French Revolution must have been like this with league tables of evil .
James Mattis is the new Erwin Rommel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2018, 11:05:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
Sessions fired as AG


https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1056957779783663617/video/1

It shows how weird the age of Trump is that people have sympathy for a neoconfederate like Jefferson Beauregard Sessions. The French Revolution must have been like this with league tables of evil .

f**k Sessions, the racist lowlife.

This is the man who used biblical scripture to justify ripping toddlers away from their parents.

It is interesting the silence from the GOP though. All servile lambs to Trump and his appalling policies and spell over their constituents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2018, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2018, 11:05:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
Sessions fired as AG


https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1056957779783663617/video/1

It shows how weird the age of Trump is that people have sympathy for a neoconfederate like Jefferson Beauregard Sessions. The French Revolution must have been like this with league tables of evil .

f**k Sessions, the racist lowlife.

This is the man who used biblical scripture to justify ripping toddlers away from their parents.

It is interesting the silence from the GOP though. All servile lambs to Trump and his appalling policies and spell over their constituents.

Timing is strange... surely he was spinning the election as good news and could have enjoyed that cycle until next week.

There has to be some reason as to why now but it's unclear as there's no way anybody is going to stand for the Mueller investigation to be shut down. Trump is smart enough to know that and unless Mueller has him and Trump's being backed into a corner this could be his Hail Mary shot! He was a bit more unhinged than usual in his presser earlier the Jim Acosta rant was bizarre!!

Will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few days!! I'd take Pence now that he wouldn't be able to do anything legislatively!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 08, 2018, 12:47:33 AM
Word is Mueller has Don Jr bang to rights and is preparing to indict him.

This is now a game of quick draw, driven by the need for Trump to do it in the lame duck session. I don't know why anyone expects effective institutional opposition to this. Republicans already went all in on racism and white supremacy for the mid terms. They won't baulk at a constitutional crisis.
Dems better have half a million angry protesters ready to go. Trump is a coward and like the Muslim ban, that might be the way to go.
Scary stuff for all americans if this goes down. Going fascist is like going bankrupt, it happens very slowly, then very quickly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:38:58 AM
All we need now is for that old bat RBG to kick the bucket

Trump would then get his third pick on the Supreme Court

I'm getting bored from all the winning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2018, 01:42:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:38:58 AM
All we need now is for that old bat RBG to kick the bucket

Trump would then get his third pick on the Supreme Court

I'm getting bored from all the winning

Wanting an 85 year old woman to die because you think it might make your life better.

Quite possibly the saddest thing I've ever seen posted here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 01:44:16 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on November 07, 2018, 08:15:33 PM
Matthew Whitake is replacing Sessions.  He is on record saying that the Mueller probe has gone too far.
He should recuse himself like JBS did
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 02:04:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:38:58 AM
All we need now is for that old bat RBG to kick the bucket

Trump would then get his third pick on the Supreme Court

I'm getting bored from all the winning

When your side is such an indefensible disgrace that all you can offer is provocative "jokes" to try to get a rise...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 03:56:50 AM
Trump has banned Acosta from White House now that should keep his name in the headlines for a few days , all tv news media in the country are a disgrace they do not report news but opine on it and spin it  I Turn it off and go outside and talk to people to see what's really going on .
Also Let's see what mueller has if anything get it out on the table and get it over with and move forward appropriately.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 08, 2018, 04:45:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:38:58 AM
All we need now is for that old bat RBG to kick the bucket

Trump would then get his third pick on the Supreme Court

I'm getting bored from all the winning

Whitey you may want to keep your uniform in the closet for a few months longer. He's still a few steps away from declaring the Fourth Reich. And I know you don't support Herr Trump. Right....
Fortunately, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is not in the pocket of the Koch Bros and is still an just and honest jurist. Now we know you are Ageist with extremely bad taste. But I'm sure you know somebody who will provide you with an anecdote that will validate your ageist bad taste.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 08, 2018, 05:24:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 03:56:50 AM
Trump has banned Acosta from White House now that should keep his name in the headlines for a few days , all tv news media in the country are a disgrace they do not report news but opine on it and spin it  I Turn it off and go outside and talk to people to see what's really going on .
Also Let's see what mueller has if anything get it out on the table and get it over with and move forward appropriately.

What are you talking about. Trump lies, lies, Lies... the media ask him questions about his lying. He obfuscates, lies, gets mad and calls them fake news. You interpret that as "opining". Trump is the one on the other end of the questions, lying. The Media just film Trump's response and broadcast it. That's not opining.
This outrage about the Media doing their jobs, reporting factually on the Trump Administration and putting them in the same frame as opionionists like Limbaugh, Alex Jones and Hannity is pure "bullpoopey".
Now go out get us a few nice anecdotes from your friends to validate your BS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on November 08, 2018, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:38:58 AM
All we need now is for that old bat RBG to kick the bucket

Trump would then get his third pick on the Supreme Court

I'm getting bored from all the winning

Finally you've dropped the "I'm not a Trump supporter" schtick.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 10:21:03 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 08, 2018, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:38:58 AM
All we need now is for that old bat RBG to kick the bucket

Trump would then get his third pick on the Supreme Court

I'm getting bored from all the winning

Finally you've dropped the "I'm not a Trump supporter" schtick.
No hardy he would have voted Bernie. I believe him. You believe whatever you want sure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 10:45:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 03:56:50 AM
Trump has banned Acosta from White House now that should keep his name in the headlines for a few days , all tv news media in the country are a disgrace they do not report news but opine on it and spin it  I Turn it off and go outside and talk to people to see what's really going on .
Also Let's see what mueller has if anything get it out on the table and get it over with and move forward appropriately.

Yeah, that was rough, unfair questioning from Acosta. ::)

What exactly did he ask that was wrong? And how exactly do your neighbours know "what's really going on?"

Would you be asking Mueller to cut his investigation off before it was done if it was the Clinton or Obama campaign he was investigating?

Were you similarly outraged at the ten different Congressional investigations into Benghazi?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 10:45:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 03:56:50 AM
Trump has banned Acosta from White House now that should keep his name in the headlines for a few days , all tv news media in the country are a disgrace they do not report news but opine on it and spin it  I Turn it off and go outside and talk to people to see what's really going on .
Also Let's see what mueller has if anything get it out on the table and get it over with and move forward appropriately.

Yeah, that was rough, unfair questioning from Acosta. ::)

What exactly did he ask that was wrong? And how exactly do your neighbours know "what's really going on?"

Would you be asking Mueller to cut his investigation off before it was done if it was the Clinton or Obama campaign he was investigating?

Were you similarly outraged at the ten different Congressional investigations into Benghazi?
Trump is a tr*mp. You can see from the way he reacted to Acosta . He wants attention and cannot deal with criticism.
You would also wonder about how he deal with his domestic partner when things don't go his way.
The questions were valid.
The response was not.

He makes Nixon look statesmanlike. The Presidency is a great revealer of character. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 12:12:45 PM
If I was a Democrat, I would be furious because the Democrats won the "Senate Popular Vote" and somehow still lost seats. The system is rigged against them and it's rascist and unfair

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 12:12:45 PM
If I was a Democrat, I would be furious because the Democrats won the "Senate Popular Vote" and somehow still lost seats. The system is rigged against them and it's rascist and unfair

It's really not though. Most of the Senate seats up this time were in democrat areas. There was even a democrat v democrat race in California I believe. It means nothing that they won the popular vote. Nothing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2018, 12:22:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 12:12:45 PM
If I was a Democrat, I would be furious because the Democrats won the "Senate Popular Vote" and somehow still lost seats. The system is rigged against them and it's rascist and unfair

It's really not though. Most of the Senate seats up this time were in democrat areas. There was even a democrat v democrat race in California I believe. It means nothing that they won the popular vote. Nothing.

As far as I can tell nobody on here has said anything about the Senate race being rigged but whitey obviously has some point to make about it.

It's the State houses that are rigged and unfair but Trump's complete incompetence has meant that the Dems can start to undo some of the gerrymandering nonsense your friends have been up to since the Tea Party days!!

On Acosta well that's disgusting. . . Huckabee saying he "Placed his hands on an intern" what a crock of complete shit!! If anything the intern was out of line!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 12:33:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 08, 2018, 12:22:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 12:12:45 PM
If I was a Democrat, I would be furious because the Democrats won the "Senate Popular Vote" and somehow still lost seats. The system is rigged against them and it's rascist and unfair

It's really not though. Most of the Senate seats up this time were in democrat areas. There was even a democrat v democrat race in California I believe. It means nothing that they won the popular vote. Nothing.

As far as I can tell nobody on here has said anything about the Senate race being rigged but whitey obviously has some point to make about it.

It's the State houses that are rigged and unfair but Trump's complete incompetence has meant that the Dems can start to undo some of the gerrymandering nonsense your friends have been up to since the Tea Party days!!

On Acosta well that's disgusting. . . Huckabee saying he "Placed his hands on an intern" what a crock of complete shit!! If anything the intern was out of line!
100%. Someone made the point on the Mayo ladies thread, that they made a loaded allegation. Its the same in this case, "young female intern". Its clear what they are trying to do given the current landscape with "#metoo" etc. An absolute disgrace.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 12:47:56 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 12:12:45 PM
If I was a Democrat, I would be furious because the Democrats won the "Senate Popular Vote" and somehow still lost seats. The system is rigged against them and it's rascist and unfair

It's really not though. Most of the Senate seats up this time were in democrat areas. There was even a democrat v democrat race in California I believe. It means nothing that they won the popular vote. Nothing.
The Democrats increased their vote share from the corresponding 2012 Senate elections, when they did very well.

They got the highest vote share in the House of any party since 2008 on an extremely high turnout for a mid-term election.

Feel free to ignore that, by all means.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 12:50:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 12:12:45 PM
If I was a Democrat, I would be furious because the Democrats won the "Senate Popular Vote" and somehow still lost seats. The system is rigged against them and it's rascist and unfair

It's really not though. Most of the Senate seats up this time were in democrat areas. There was even a democrat v democrat race in California I believe. It means nothing that they won the popular vote. Nothing.

No one here has said that the Senate popular vote means anything. Some states didn't even have Senate elections. Others had two.

Whitey is just trying to distract. Or maybe he is really in denial about what the GOP has become.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:00:12 PM
Acostas press pass revoked now after the fracus between him and the intern trying to move the mic on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:16:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:00:12 PM
Acostas press pass revoked now after the fracus between him and the intern trying to move the mic on.

He ASSAULTED the intern

#metoo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 08, 2018, 01:17:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:00:12 PM
Acostas press pass revoked now after the fracus between him and the intern trying to move the mic on.

It didn't look pretty, and he has given them an opportunity to act
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2018, 01:18:00 PM
You are absolutely useless at this shitey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 08, 2018, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:16:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:00:12 PM
Acostas press pass revoked now after the fracus between him and the intern trying to move the mic on.

He ASSAULTED the intern

#metoo

It must have been like a Bruce Lee 1 inch punch.

The poor girl must have fierce bruising on that arm.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 01:28:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:16:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:00:12 PM
Acostas press pass revoked now after the fracus between him and the intern trying to move the mic on.

He ASSAULTED the intern

#metoo
Show us the video .
Acosta got on Trump's tits because he asked a very pointed question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:29:59 PM
At the end of the day, he's stealing time of other reporters, which isn't fair. Acosta has a history of this sort of thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2018, 01:33:59 PM
"stealing time" FFS - have a look at yourself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:29:59 PM
At the end of the day, he's stealing time of other reporters, which isn't fair. Acosta has a history of this sort of thing.
;D ;D ;D Ah right Trump supporters and Republicans concerns are for the other "MSN" reporters to get a fair crack at the whip at reporting "fake news"?  ;D ;D Brilliant
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2018, 01:33:59 PM
"stealing time" FFS - have a look at yourself

Well... you've certainly changed my mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 01:40:15 PM
Suzanne Moore in the Grauniad

« Hannah Arendt described a long time ago the ideal subject of totalitarian rule as "people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction ... true and false ... no longer exists". « 

WTF is someone from Cashelbar doing shilling for totalitarianism?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:47:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 01:40:15 PM
Suzanne Moore in the Grauniad

« Hannah Arendt described a long time ago the ideal subject of totalitarian rule as "people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction ... true and false ... no longer exists". «

WTF is someone from Cashelbar doing shilling for totalitarianism?

Having lived in the bluest if blue states for almost 30 years I'm sorry to burst your bubble but the Democrats are almost as despicable.....not quite, but close

The only difference is the press  report on every single  Republican mid step and under report or don't report at all in Democratic mid steps

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 08, 2018, 01:49:49 PM
Is Castlebar not the centre of the Universe?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2018, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 08, 2018, 01:17:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:00:12 PM
Acostas press pass revoked now after the fracus between him and the intern trying to move the mic on.

It didn't look pretty, and he has given them an opportunity to act

She reached across him and tried to take the mic out of his hand . . . he motioned the other way and said "Pardon me  Ma'am"

He did absolutely nothing wrong and was right to call Trump out on the caravan bullshit he's been spinning. The caravan is weeks away anyway!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 08, 2018, 01:49:49 PM
Is Castlebar not the centre of the Universe?

The only media that's trustworthy in my opinion is the death notices on Mid West radio
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:00:12 PM
Acostas press pass revoked now after the fracus between him and the intern trying to move the mic on.
he was asking about the refugee caravan which would have stopped once it crossed into Mexico if it was a refugee caravan , 12 people shot in California last night what news channel was this nut watching or was he a trump supporter? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 02:25:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:38:58 AM
All we need now is for that old bat RBG to kick the bucket

Trump would then get his third pick on the Supreme Court

I'm getting bored from all the winning

She just fell and broke 3 ribs in her office...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 02:40:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 08, 2018, 01:49:49 PM
Is Castlebar not the centre of the Universe?

The only media that's trustworthy in my opinion is the death notices on Mid West radio
What about Angelina?

But seriously, hatred of the media is fascist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 02:45:36 PM
See the left are out in force today defending a white male after an altercation with a young female...  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 02:50:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 02:45:36 PM
See the left are out in force today defending a white male after an altercation with a young female...  ;)

So let's see how the Acosta incident is covered compared to Corey Lewandowski

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/video-shows-trump-campaign-manager-corey-lewandowski-grabbing-michelle-fields/2016/03/29/8b53c8a4-f5c2-11e5-958d-d038dac6e718_video.html?utm_term=.dcb9eb46c9c7
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 08, 2018, 02:52:41 PM
I see that the White House posted an infowars doctored video to justify removing Acosta's access.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2018, 02:54:40 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 02:45:36 PM
See the left are out in force today defending a white male after an altercation with a young female...  ;)

When was the last time you interacted with a female?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2018, 02:54:40 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 02:45:36 PM
See the left are out in force today defending a white male after an altercation with a young female...  ;)

When was the last time you interacted with a female?

About 5 minutes ago.

Play the ball, not the man, gabe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 03:14:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2018, 02:54:40 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 02:45:36 PM
See the left are out in force today defending a white male after an altercation with a young female...  ;)

When was the last time you interacted with a female?

About 5 minutes ago.

Play the ball, not the man, gabe.

If you cannot convince a fascist," Leon Trotsky famously quipped, "acquaint his head with the pavement."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 02:45:36 PM
See the left are out in force today defending a white male after an altercation with a young female...  ;)

Let's just nip this in the bud. There's no altercation. Call It what it is. He hasn't approached her, he hasn't moved from where he's standing. She's tried to take the Mic and he hasn't let her.

Yet again it's a spineless president putting his staff in situations they don't need to be in either physically, professionally, or morally. All while he stands and pontificates hate, division, and nonsense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 02:40:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 08, 2018, 01:49:49 PM
Is Castlebar not the centre of the Universe?

The only media that's trustworthy in my opinion is the death notices on Mid West radio
What about Angelina?

But seriously, hatred of the media is fascist

Did I say I hated them?

I thought I said I didn't trust them.

Jim Acosta assaulted that intern about as much as Cory Lewandowski assaulted that reporter by stepping in front of her. Let's see if the press hold Jim to the same standard !
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 08, 2018, 03:44:52 PM
Whitey's life experience and bad memory are a potent defense against facts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 03:51:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 02:40:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 08, 2018, 01:49:49 PM
Is Castlebar not the centre of the Universe?

The only media that's trustworthy in my opinion is the death notices on Mid West radio
What about Angelina?

But seriously, hatred of the media is fascist

Did I say I hated them?

I thought I said I didn't trust them.

Jim Acosta assaulted that intern about as much as Cory Lewandowski assaulted that reporter by stepping in front of her. Let's see if the press hold Jim to the same standard !
Saying the media are fake is the same as calling them the Luegenpresse which is the same as hating them, Whitey.
Authoritarianism works by making up its own facts and selling them to right wing voters.
Did you see the caravan lately?
When is trump going to introduce the 10% tax cut for the middle class? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 03:35:11 PM


Jim Acosta assaulted that intern about as much as Cory Lewandowski assaulted that reporter by stepping in front of her. Let's see if the press hold Jim to the same standard !

These are the fine margin comments upon which wrong is being blurred into right. If you have to use these little extras to extrapolate 2 completely different situations into being the same - you are losing your argument in the real world.

I will concede however that many of our fellow countrymen and women are not living in the real world where the political spectrum is concerned and that's why such nonsense as what you've suggested above will dominate news cycles and "what about" cries for the next week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 04:02:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter
Fake equivalence.
Would love to see trump sue Acosta for this non event
And for someone who is so meticulously non partisan, Whitey, why did you take it upon yourself to promote the WH line ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 02:40:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 08, 2018, 01:49:49 PM
Is Castlebar not the centre of the Universe?

The only media that's trustworthy in my opinion is the death notices on Mid West radio
What about Angelina?

But seriously, hatred of the media is fascist

Did I say I hated them?

I thought I said I didn't trust them.

Jim Acosta assaulted that intern about as much as Cory Lewandowski assaulted that reporter by stepping in front of her. Let's see if the press hold Jim to the same standard !

That must be why the likes of Ben Shapiro resigned from Breitbart after they initially sided with Lewandowski instead of their own employee.

BTW - the issue was that Lewandowski roughly grabbed her arm. She even posted photos of bruise marks and he ended up being arrested and charged.

But, you're the kind of false equivalency, so "keep it up".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 04:05:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 01:00:12 PM
Acostas press pass revoked now after the fracus between him and the intern trying to move the mic on.
he was asking about the refugee caravan which would have stopped once it crossed into Mexico if it was a refugee caravan , 12 people shot in California last night what news channel was this nut watching or was he a trump supporter?

I guess we will see in the coming hours.

Not every mass murder is politically motivated nor does the shooter always spout conspiracy theories straight out of a president's mouth as motivation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

Again, in the real world there is no equivalence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

Again, in the real world there is no equivalence.

Tats where we disagree

In my opinion if a Fox or Breitbart reporter did that in an Obama press conference there'd be holy blue murder
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 04:36:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

Again, in the real world there is no equivalence.

Tats where we disagree

In my opinion if a Fox or Breitbart reporter did that in an Obama press conference there'd be holy blue murder
Did what exactly?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

Again, in the real world there is no equivalence.

Tats where we disagree

In my opinion if a Fox or Breitbart reporter did that in an Obama press conference there'd be holy blue murder
There wouldn't because Obama wouldn't lose his rag like Trump did. Neither would either of the Bushs.
Trump is not fit to be POTUS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

Again, in the real world there is no equivalence.

Tats where we disagree

In my opinion if a Fox or Breitbart reporter did that in an Obama press conference there'd be holy blue murder
There wouldn't because Obama wouldn't lose his rag like Trump did. Neither would either of the Bushs.
Trump is not fit to be POTUS

Couldn't agree with you more

I've said that from day one although I do support his  Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:40:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

Again, in the real world there is no equivalence.

Tats where we disagree

In my opinion if a Fox or Breitbart reporter did that in an Obama press conference there'd be holy blue murder

So, In your opinion the physical coming together of the 2 people in each situation is the same?

Same in intent
Same in situation
Same in the physical contact
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:42:19 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:40:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

Again, in the real world there is no equivalence.

Tats where we disagree

In my opinion if a Fox or Breitbart reporter did that in an Obama press conference there'd be holy blue murder

So, In your opinion the physical coming together of the 2 people in each situation is the same?

Same in intent
Same in situation
Same in the physical contact

Minimal contact in both cases

Technically it's assault if you even touch someone
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 04:46:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not


CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

Again, in the real world there is no equivalence.

Tats where we disagree

In my opinion if a Fox or Breitbart reporter did that in an Obama press conference there'd be holy blue murder

Lewandowski grabbed the Breitbart reporter by the arm.

Acosta touched the intern with the side of his left arm when SHE tried to wrestle the mic away from him. Her arm was there because SHE reached in. The only even modestly aggressive action by Acosta was to keep a grip on the mic.

Only the most dishonest, cynical political hack would attempt to equate the two.

Your attempts to draw these false equivalencies for each and every thing is getting more pathetic by the day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:47:53 PM
Watch again he aggressively pushed her arm away
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 04:50:52 PM
Whitey you are on the wind up here surely  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 04:53:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:47:53 PM
Watch again he aggressively pushed her arm away

I've watched it a couple of times straining my eyes to see WTF you're on about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 04:50:52 PM
Whitey you are on the wind up here surely  ;D

For his sake, I hope so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:54:41 PM
He is, absolutely. But he's a necessary pantomime villain in the narrative. He's our very own window into the mindset of the average MAGA Hat wearing folks, sitting at home watching fox news wondering if they should buy silver during the commercials, or a new med alert bracelet. While also struggling with the Big Pharma commercials that the same news station keeps running.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:57:28 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 04:50:52 PM
Whitey you are on the wind up here surely  ;D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFPpM6p3D4

I guess it depends on your definition of aggressive

If a Fox News reporter did it it would be reported that she had s broken arm (joke)

It doesn't matter what's true and false, what matters is what people think is true or false

Like the Democrats trying to pin kids in cages on Trump when the photos were taken under Obama
Report healthcare premiums are going to go down by $2500 when for some people they went up by $20k
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:54:41 PM
He is, absolutely. But he's a necessary pantomime villain in the narrative. He's our very own window into the mindset of the average MAGA Hat wearing folks, sitting at home watching fox news wondering if they should buy silver during the commercials, or a new med alert bracelet. While also struggling with the Big Pharma commercials that the same news station keeps running.

No I'm actually stuck at Phoenix airport waiting for a delayed flight bored out of my brains
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 05:09:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:57:28 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 04:50:52 PM
Whitey you are on the wind up here surely  ;D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFPpM6p3D4

I guess it depends on your definition of aggressive

If a Fox News reporter did it it would be reported that she had s broken arm (joke)

It doesn't matter what's true and false, what matters is what people think is true or false

Like the Democrats trying to pin kids in cages on Trump when the photos were taken under Obama
Report healthcare premiums are going to go down by $2500 when for some people they went up by $20k
It actually doesn't. But you wail away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:12:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:57:28 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2018, 04:50:52 PM
Whitey you are on the wind up here surely  ;D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFPpM6p3D4

I guess it depends on your definition of aggressive

If a Fox News reporter did it it would be reported that she had s broken arm (joke)

It doesn't matter what's true and false, what matters is what people think is true or false

Like the Democrats trying to pin kids in cages on Trump when the photos were taken under Obama
Report healthcare premiums are going to go down by $2500 when for some people they went up by $20k

1. Which Democrats reported kids in cages taken under Obama occurred under Trump?
2. Who said premiums were going down by 2500 when they went up by 20k for some? What exactly was the reporting?

I agree with you on perception. No more explicit example of that in recent decades than Trump and his tactical use of lies to motivate his base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 05:14:18 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upshot/liberals-immigration-children-border-misinformation.amp.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2018, 05:18:41 PM
Has George Soros' caravan stopped or turned back yet?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 05:25:21 PM
« It doesn't matter what's true and false, what matters is what people think is true or false »

Ok so Whitey. Say you think you are a woman.
Can you walk into the female changing rooms at your local pool?

If people believe lies they have been lied to.
And that is one reason the US can't address its gun problem.
It's one reason the country cannot come together.
Who would want that?
They are playing you like a banjo on MWR.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 05:32:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:54:41 PM
He is, absolutely. But he's a necessary pantomime villain in the narrative. He's our very own window into the mindset of the average MAGA Hat wearing folks, sitting at home watching fox news wondering if they should buy silver during the commercials, or a new med alert bracelet. While also struggling with the Big Pharma commercials that the same news station keeps running.

No I'm actually stuck at Phoenix airport waiting for a delayed flight bored out of my brains

My point is what your viewpoints represent. Not what you're doing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:37:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 05:14:18 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upshot/liberals-immigration-children-border-misinformation.amp.html

Yes, I knew about that story and remember it well from earlier this year. You yourself, predictably, tried to change the subject from Trump's policy of tearing kids away from their mothers to a discussion about the temporary, mistaken perception that Trump had lost those kids, as if THAT story of liberal media bias was the real outrage.

But anyway, I do not see anything in that piece about the Democrats spreading the lie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 06:10:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2018, 04:54:41 PM
He is, absolutely. But he's a necessary pantomime villain in the narrative. He's our very own window into the mindset of the average MAGA Hat wearing folks, sitting at home watching fox news wondering if they should buy silver during the commercials, or a new med alert bracelet. While also struggling with the Big Pharma commercials that the same news station keeps running.

No I'm actually stuck at Phoenix airport waiting for a delayed flight bored out of my brains
Please don't feel the need to inflict that feeling on others by continuing to post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 08, 2018, 06:39:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 07, 2018, 12:16:32 PM
Will the election results give rise to more outrages by white male anglo saxon protestant gun nuts?

Didn't take long :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 07:04:16 PM
By the time I get to Phoenix
She'll be lying
She'll find the note Trump left hanging on her door
She'll laugh, when she reads the shite I post on the gaaboard
Especially the bit about believing what you want which I have posted so  many times before

By the time I fly over Albuquerque
She'll be lying
She'll probably stop at lunch,
Because food is not a matter of opinion
But she'll just hear that POTUS keep on talking shite
Off the wall, that's all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 07:20:25 PM
https://politics.theonion.com/sarah-huckabee-sanders-denies-doctoring-footage-showing-1830314031/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 09:33:18 PM
Jim Acosta grabbed that aide's SWEET CAN, and no mistakin' it! I guess you could say he ACOSTA'd her! SAD!


(https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-30-2015/eBr-mk.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2018, 09:37:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 05:25:21 PM
« It doesn't matter what's true and false, what matters is what people think is true or false »

Ok so Whitey. Say you think you are a woman.
Can you walk into the female changing rooms at your local pool?

If people believe lies they have been lied to.
And that is one reason the US can't address its gun problem.
It's one reason the country cannot come together.
Who would want that?
They are playing you like a banjo on MWR.

Yes....in Massachusetts if you self identify as a woman you absolutely can use a women's bathroom or locker room.

There was just a referendum about it on Tuesday
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 08, 2018, 09:50:52 PM
^ as humourous as a kick in the stones
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 09:51:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 09:37:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 05:25:21 PM
« It doesn't matter what's true and false, what matters is what people think is true or false »

Ok so Whitey. Say you think you are a woman.
Can you walk into the female changing rooms at your local pool?

If people believe lies they have been lied to.
And that is one reason the US can't address its gun problem.
It's one reason the country cannot come together.
Who would want that?
They are playing you like a banjo on MWR.

Yes....in Massachusetts if you self identify as a woman you absolutely can use a women's bathroom or locker room.

There was just a referendum about it on Tuesday
Good.

Well done Massachusetts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 09:54:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u

According to the logic of Republican-supporting posters here, the victim in the following case is a liar, "because there's no evidence".

That's Republican logic for you, ie. none at all.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/father-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fcriminal-court%2Ffather-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 09:54:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u

According to the logic of Republican-supporting posters here, the victim in the following case is a liar, "because there's no evidence".

That's Republican logic for you, ie. none at all.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/father-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fcriminal-court%2Ffather-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788
send me on the $1 to read
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 10:08:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 09:54:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u

According to the logic of Republican-supporting posters here, the victim in the following case is a liar, "because there's no evidence".

That's Republican logic for you, ie. none at all.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/father-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fcriminal-court%2Ffather-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788
send me on the $1 to read
I won't bother doing that, but what I can do for you is copy and paste the Irish Independent's report of the same case.

As I said, according to the logic of Republican supporters such as yourself, there is "no evidence" in this case and the woman is a "liar".


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/mum-protected-evil-coward-dad-who-raped-me-its-unbearable-37496724.html

News Courts Thursday 8 November 2018
'Mum protected evil, coward dad who raped me - it's unbearable'

Sonya McLean

November 6 2018 2:30 AM


A woman who was regularly raped by her father while growing up found it "unbearable" her mother gave evidence on his behalf during the trial.

Oliver Berry (61), of Newtown Laws, Mullingar, Co Westmeath, was convicted by a Central Criminal Court jury of 104 counts of both raping and sexually assaulting her between December 1982 and December 1994.

He was yesterday sentenced to 10 years in prison.

Jennifer Berry (43) waived her right to anonymity so her father could be named in any reporting of the case.

Oliver Berry had pleaded not guilty to all offences and was convicted following a trial earlier this year. He has two previous convictions for minor offences.

He still maintains his innocence and Ms Berry's mother, who has since separated from Berry, supports him and gave evidence in his defence during the trial.

Ms Berry stated in her victim impact statement, read into the record by Dominic McGinn SC prosecuting, that the first time she was ever abused by her father he took something from her, "her innocence and childhood".

She said she found it "unbearable" to hear her mother giving evidence on her father's behalf during the trial.

"Instead of trying to protect me, she protected him. She turned her back on me. I can't understand how she could do this.

"I don't know what I did to deserve two parents like that," she said.

Ms Berry said she was in fear of her father. He told her that if she disclosed the abuse her siblings would be taken away and this was a big concern for her.


She said she couldn't concentrate well in school and she never went to college. She suffered panic attacks and depression from as far back as she could remember.

"I can't say for definite but maybe it would have been different if I had been supported as a child," she said.

Ms Berry described the behaviour of her father as the "actions of a coward, evil". She said he must be "in some parts a sick man because I can't think of how he could hurt me otherwise".

She referred to incidents of attempted suicide because of the abuse and said she thanked God that she is still alive.

"I have finally got justice after 35 years. I am now strong and able to fight. I am not weak anymore," Ms Berry added.

She said that she hoped she had saved at least one person from going through what she did by reporting her father to gardaí.

Ms Justice Deirdre Murphy had adjourned the case having first heard the evidence two weeks ago.

She noted Berry was 25 years old when he first abused his then seven-year-old daughter.

She said the first time he raped her, Jennifer didn't understand what had happened by "virtue of her youth".

Ms Justice Murphy said that a year when Berry was out of work, Jennifer was raped most days when she returned home from school for lunch.

On occasion when she refused to go home she was beaten up by Berry on her ultimate return from school.

She noted that he continued to rape his daughter while she was pregnant with her first child as he told the victim "the damage had now been done".

Her father continued to rape her through the pregnancy and raped her for the final time two weeks after she gave birth.

Her baby son was in a basket in the room at the time.

The judge said that Jennifer believed Berry was her son's father until DNA testing during the Garda investigation into the rapes confirmed her boyfriend at the time was the father.

Ms Justice Murphy said sexual abuse "ruptures wider family bonds" and added that Ms Berry has "spent her entire life fighting demons".

"She has since learned that she has the strength and capacity to fight those demons," she said.

"He continually used her for his own sexual gratification and treated her as his property," Ms Justice Murphy said before she jailed Berry for 10 years.

Irish Independent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 10:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u

Leaving aside your simplistic, straw man depiction, not necessarily, but I would expect her allegation to be taken seriously and properly investigated.

Wouldn't you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 10:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u

Leaving aside your simplistic, straw man depiction, not necessarily, but I would expect her allegation to be taken seriously and properly investigated.

Wouldn't you?
As I type, Jacob Wohl is furiously penning a letter of sexual assault allegation against Mr. Acosta under the pen name "Jane Doe".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2018, 10:31:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 10:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u

Leaving aside your simplistic, straw man depiction, not necessarily, but I would expect her allegation to be taken seriously and properly investigated.

Wouldn't you?
As I type, Jacob Wohl is furiously penning a letter of sexual assault allegation against Mr. Acosta under the pen name "Jane Doe".

Luckily, proper investigation of Wohl takes about a press conference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 10:36:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 10:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u

Leaving aside your simplistic, straw man depiction, not necessarily, but I would expect her allegation to be taken seriously and properly investigated.

Wouldn't you?
absoloutely and if convicted for such a crime in this country he would never see the daylight again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 09:54:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u

According to the logic of Republican-supporting posters here, the victim in the following case is a liar, "because there's no evidence".

That's Republican logic for you, ie. none at all.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/father-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fcriminal-court%2Ffather-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788

Nobody is calling the accuser a liar, what we would say is you cannot convict/block someone when the evidence is completely non existent. As used to be the case in the western world until 2018.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 10:52:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2018, 05:25:21 PM
« It doesn't matter what's true and false, what matters is what people think is true or false »

Ok so Whitey. Say you think you are a woman.
Can you walk into the female changing rooms at your local pool?

If people believe lies they have been lied to.
And that is one reason the US can't address its gun problem.
It's one reason the country cannot come together.
Who would want that?
They are playing you like a banjo on MWR.

Yes, you can.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna933516
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2018, 01:14:39 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2018, 09:54:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
Absolutely not



CL stepped in front of a reporter and if you relied on the MSM for your information you'd have thought he'd be up for GBH for that encounter

If Brett Kavanaugh had got on the way Acosta did with a woman the Dems/media would have had a field day.

So Jim Acosta has sexual assault allegations surrounding him too?
yes a woman is about to drop a bombshell on him from his high school days
She doesn't remember the year , the place the time or how she got to party or how she got home , she has no witnesses but just because it's Jim Acosta I believe her wouldn't u

According to the logic of Republican-supporting posters here, the victim in the following case is a liar, "because there's no evidence".

That's Republican logic for you, ie. none at all.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/father-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fcriminal-court%2Ffather-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-is-jailed-for-10-years-1.3686788

Nobody is calling the accuser a liar, what we would say is you cannot convict/block someone when the evidence is completely non existent. As used to be the case in the western world until 2018.

That's a load of bullshit. Christine Blasey Ford has been repeatedly called a liar by Republicans. She still hasn't been able to return to work, has had to hire security to protect her and is still receiving threats from Reppublicans.

Now you're admitting you think a convicted serial rapist of his daughter shouldn't have been convicted because "there's no evidence" - except that there is evidence, reams of it.

God f**king help women with people like you around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2018, 06:04:42 AM
Trans men are not allowed into female changing rooms until"
they have « transitioned ."
Whitey hasn't had any surgery yet  as far as I know so she wouldn't be allowed in .



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2018, 12:35:05 PM
Trip Gabriel

@tripgabriel

At an evangelical forum in Iowa in 2014, Matt Whitaker said he would only support judges who have a 'Biblical' view of justice, specifically New Testament, which would bar Jewish, Hindu, Muslims or atheists from the bench.


An absolute fruitcake
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2018, 12:36:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2018, 06:04:42 AM
Trans men are not allowed into female changing rooms until"
they have « transitioned ."
Whitey hasn't had any surgery yet  as far as I know so she wouldn't be allowed in .

False
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 09, 2018, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2018, 12:36:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2018, 06:04:42 AM
Trans men are not allowed into female changing rooms until"
they have « transitioned ."
Whitey hasn't had any surgery yet  as far as I know so she wouldn't be allowed in .

False

False in that you have had the surgery already?  :P

In all seriousness though, anyone who says this isn't coming to Ireland in the next 10 years has their head in the sand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2018, 03:08:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2018, 12:36:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2018, 06:04:42 AM
Trans men are not allowed into female changing rooms until"
they have « transitioned ."
Whitey hasn't had any surgery yet  as far as I know so she wouldn't be allowed in .

False
Here's wan for ya

@DaveScottSC

Replying to
@joshgreenman
and
@NormOrnstein
In a world where right wing voters can so easily choose their own facts, there's no reason asymmetrical polarization ends in the foreseeable future.

Believe what you want = polarisation
The GAA came out of a polarised era. It was designed to bring people together
It does a pretty good job.
Fox is the opposite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2018, 09:58:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2018, 06:04:42 AM
Trans men are not allowed into female changing rooms until"
they have « transitioned ."
Whitey hasn't had any surgery yet  as far as I know so she wouldn't be allowed in .
You sure about that? I assumed he'd had a lobotomy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2018, 08:54:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2018, 09:58:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2018, 06:04:42 AM
Trans men are not allowed into female changing rooms until"
they have « transitioned ."
Whitey hasn't had any surgery yet  as far as I know so she wouldn't be allowed in .
You sure about that? I assumed he'd had a lobotomy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheBeatWithAri/status/1061043225459343360


Trump learned the lesson that he could lie, he could get away with it" and "it was the lie that ignited the entire raging madness of Trumpism"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2018, 03:13:58 PM
Hmm, 538 now forecast Dems to pick 38 seats in the House and Republicans to pick up two Senate seats (in a historically bad Senate map for Dems). Really hard to believe that when they were defending Manchin, McCaskill, Heitkamp, Donnelly, Tester, that they would lose only three of them and pick up two elsewhere.

The Blue wave took a long time to materialise, but boy when it did....

Shellacking territory for Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2018, 03:22:45 PM
It's amazing though, since the election we've had the Sessions/Whittaker shenanigans, his pathetic performance in France, his appalling comments on the California wildfires, and now The NY Times is reporting that all may not be as Trump advertised on North Korea.

I'm sure I've left out something ( oh yeah, his petulant response to Michelle Obama and the Jim Acosta stuff).

That's in the space of a few days...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2018, 03:43:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2018, 03:22:45 PM
It's amazing though, since the election we've had the Sessions/Whittaker shenanigans, his pathetic performance in France, his appalling comments on the California wildfires, and now The NY Times is reporting that all may not be as Trump advertised on North Korea.

I'm sure I've left out something ( oh yeah, his petulant response to Michelle Obama and the Jim Acosta stuff).

That's in the space of a few days...

I'd say a lot of that behaviour is driven by the realisation that the Dems are now a force to be reckoned with. Apparently now Whittaker is meeting with DOJ ethics officials to discuss possible areas of recusal. This is ridiculous stuff. I don't know what is scarier - the fact that Donald Trump can't even do authoritarianism right, or the possibility that the Republicans might put up someone with the same prejudice and disdain for democracy, except 20 times smarter, come 2020.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2018, 04:00:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2018, 03:22:45 PM
It's amazing though, since the election we've had the Sessions/Whittaker shenanigans, his pathetic performance in France, his appalling comments on the California wildfires, and now The NY Times is reporting that all may not be as Trump advertised on North Korea.

I'm sure I've left out something ( oh yeah, his petulant response to Michelle Obama and the Jim Acosta stuff).

That's in the space of a few days...

J70- what's the word on the ground in Queens about the new Amazon HQ?

I see the New Democratic Socialist congresswoman is out with the burning pitchforks already.

Can say I blame her......from my vantage point it probably won't too too much for her constituents (apart from drive them out/drive up their rent)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2018, 04:02:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2018, 03:22:45 PM
It's amazing though, since the election we've had the Sessions/Whittaker shenanigans, his pathetic performance in France, his appalling comments on the California wildfires, and now The NY Times is reporting that all may not be as Trump advertised on North Korea.

I'm sure I've left out something ( oh yeah, his petulant response to Michelle Obama and the Jim Acosta stuff).

That's in the space of a few days...
If Trump could just be contained in the virtual world like social media he might be credible. But his character lets him down in the real world all the time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2018, 04:18:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2018, 04:00:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2018, 03:22:45 PM
It's amazing though, since the election we've had the Sessions/Whittaker shenanigans, his pathetic performance in France, his appalling comments on the California wildfires, and now The NY Times is reporting that all may not be as Trump advertised on North Korea.

I'm sure I've left out something ( oh yeah, his petulant response to Michelle Obama and the Jim Acosta stuff).

That's in the space of a few days...

J70- what's the word on the ground in Queens about the new Amazon HQ?

I see the New Democratic Socialist congresswoman is out with the burning pitchforks already.

Can say I blame her......from my vantage point it probably won't too too much for her constituents (apart from drive them out/drive up their rent)

Mixed, with an awful lot opposed.

Long Island City has already been undergoing massive gentrification and de-industrialization with thousands of expensive, high-rise apartments being added in the past five years and still ongoing. Personally it has suited me, because I live less than ten minutes drive away and there are nice new restaurants and lovely parks along the waterfront. But, it is putting real pressure on the subway system, especially as they are still doing post-Sandy repairs as well as trying to bring a 1900s-level signal system into the modern era. Then you have the 59th Street Bridge and the midtown tunnel right there too (the bridge is the only non-tolled Manhattan crossing in Queens). Bringing another 25k jobs into a fairly small area will obviously have an impact on top of that. They're also talking about building over the massive Sunnyside rail yards which are very close to the same area, which could bring thousands more apartments as well as additional commercial development. To service all this, the city will have to build new schools and parks, as well as adding transit capacity.

From what I've heard, Amazon will begin with a couple thousand workers, perhaps occupying somewhere like the Citibank building which currently has a lot of space. The 25k would be reached within ten years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 14, 2018, 11:02:29 PM
According to reports - Michael Avenatti has been arrested for domestic violence

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 14, 2018, 11:05:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 14, 2018, 11:02:29 PM
According to reports - Michael Avenatti has been arrested for domestic violence

Always felt there was something off with him... had he run in 2020 the Dem
Primary would have been a complete mess!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 21, 2018, 05:38:00 AM
Herr Trump wants to prosecute Hillary and Comey but Murdering Saudi "Job creators"😜 get a free pass. Wonder why? Could There be a Trump profit motive?
Trump family have "Hillary like"  email issues. Do you think the "Base" will consider locking Ivanka up? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 02, 2018, 08:40:06 PM
Stealing from a friend:

The only coherent policies of the GOP are the acquisition of power and punishing the disadvantaged.

In November, Wisconsin voters rejected Governor Scott Walker and his policies (Dems won every state-wide race). District gerrymanders though made sure that even though Ds received 54% of the votes, Rs hold 63% of the seats.

On Friday the Wisconsin Republicans launched a plan to strip powers from the newly elected Democratic governor and attorney general before they take office, lock in their gerrymander, lock in work requirements for Medicaid that are used to kick people off the rolls, cut early voting, and improve their chances in a state Supreme Court race by ordering three statewide elections in three months (NO county clerk has come out in favor of this plan, and 83% of them outright oppose it). The legislature will vote on Tuesday.

This is similar to what the NC leg tried to pull after Democratic gains in 2016. Draw the map to ensure you control the leg, strip powers from the executive, and rig the judiciary with judges to approve both moves.

Meanwhile Paul Ryan is complaining about votes being legally counted in California as some kind of affront to democracy.

The band of thugs that have been crowing "elections have consequences" since 2010 have no compunction about utilizing antidemocratic measures to ensure that their will supersedes that of the voters, because really they have nothing but contempt for them.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/30/lawmakers-consider-changes-early-voting-transportation-funding-2020-presidential-primary/2162684002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/30/lawmakers-consider-changes-early-voting-transportation-funding-2020-presidential-primary/2162684002/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 03, 2018, 06:04:47 PM
Except for the lone black GOP Senator, Tim Scott, we'd have had two federal judges appointed this year with a racist history of trying to disenfranchise black people.

In this f**king day and age...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ambrose on December 07, 2018, 04:33:15 PM
Donnie has nominated Heather Nauert as UN Ambassador, the same Heather Nauert who earlier this year cited the D-Day landings as an example of the long standing relationship between America and Germany.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-d-day-america-germany-strong-relationship-state-department-spokeswoman-heather-nauert-a8387221.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on December 07, 2018, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on December 07, 2018, 04:33:15 PM
Donnie has nominated Heather Nauert as UN Ambassador, the same Heather Nauert who earlier this year cited the D-Day landings as an example of the long standing relationship between America and Germany.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-d-day-america-germany-strong-relationship-state-department-spokeswoman-heather-nauert-a8387221.html

She'll fit right in at the useless UN.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 09, 2018, 04:55:02 PM
An American story

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
FAKE NEWS - THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!


——————
Joshua McKerrow
@joshuamckerrow

1. Today I did the annual story on holiday decorations at the Governor's residence. I've done it every year, for years. A very light but very fun story. Every year my reporting partner was Wendi Winters. This year, it was Selene. Wendi was murdered in June.

2. Selene did a great job, of course. And I really thought I could hold it together. I moved through the rooms with my tripod, focusing on the trees and ornaments. All I could think about was Wendi. I felt like she was with me, that she was actually present.

3. Not in a "ghost" sense, I hope she has moved on to a better world then Capital feature stories : ) But she was there in my mind. I could almost hear her voice echoing through the empty rooms. "How many cookies are you making this year?", her favorite question..

4. I was ok til the very end. Interviewed the butler, like I have every year, and when we were done she took me aside and whispered, "I really miss Wendi. Next year I'm going to name a cookie for her."

5. And that was it. The tears started, and I'm standing in the Maryland Governors home weeping to myself about my dead friend. She died in The Capital newsroom on June 28th, shot by a man who wanted to kill every journalist he could.

6. We don't know what set him off yet. After years of silence. What finally pushed him far enough that he loaded his shotgun, drove the 40 minutes from Laurel, parked his car, walked through the busy lobby, barricaded our back exit, blasted the simple fragile glass door.

Joshua McKerrow

@joshuamckerrow
·
Dec 7

7. Five people died, Rebecca, Wendi, Gerald, Rob, John. I always type their names in the order I think they were killed. I think, Rebecca first, at the door. Wendi charged him. Gerald and Rob were trapped in their cubicle. John, trying to get out the blocked exit.

8. Wendi was no ones enemy

Joshua McKerrow

@joshuamckerrow
·
Dec 7

Replying to
@joshuamckerrow
9. Every year Wendi made us all Oreo holiday cookies. except for the one year she made us jarred pesto. The question came up yesterday in the newsroom, who is going to make the cookies this year? Selene spoke up, I will.

10. I don't have a wrap-up to this story. I cried on and off all day. I miss her very much. I'm comforted that in a way she's still with me, when I do the work that she loved to do. Journalism. Patriotic, truth telling, American. We'll keep on doing the work.



Joshua McKerrow

@joshuamckerrow
·
Dec 7

Replying to
@joshuamckerrow
11. And if we die for it, someone else will pick up the threads, and report on the holiday decorations at the Governor's house. Its what we do. -


Shannon Watts

@shannonrwatts

In the moments before she was shot dead at the Capital Gazette on June 28, reporter Wendi Winters - a 65 year old mother of four - stood up from her desk and charged at the rampaging gunman, brandishing a trash can and a recycling bin.

She shouldn't have had to be a hero...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 09, 2018, 05:44:51 PM
Seafood
That is poignant and touching stuff... Trump's assault on the truth is tearing the country apart. Let's hope this will all end soon. I am not holding my breath though. As long as Mitch McConnell and Co can use him for enriching their donors, he ain't going anywhere soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2018, 06:03:17 PM
Is there anyone left on the board to debate this shit, whether it's Trump or the party that have prostituted themselves to him, their policies on guns and the environment, their demonization and dehumanization of immigrants, Muslims and other minorities, or their cynical, anti-democratic, scorched earth power grabs and gerrymandering?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 11, 2018, 06:41:25 PM
Da fuq was that???!!!

Maybe I haven't seen many but that has to be one of the most bizarre things seen in the Oval office in front of a camera!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 06:45:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2018, 06:41:25 PM
Da fuq was that???!!!

Maybe I haven't seen many but that has to be one of the most bizarre things seen in the Oval office in front of a camera!

+1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2018, 06:03:17 PM
Is there anyone left on the board to debate this shit, whether it's Trump or the party that have prostituted themselves to him, their policies on guns and the environment, their demonization and dehumanization of immigrants, Muslims and other minorities, or their cynical, anti-democratic, scorched earth power grabs and gerrymandering?

There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 11, 2018, 07:02:23 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2018, 06:03:17 PM
Is there anyone left on the board to debate this shit, whether it's Trump or the party that have prostituted themselves to him, their policies on guns and the environment, their demonization and dehumanization of immigrants, Muslims and other minorities, or their cynical, anti-democratic, scorched earth power grabs and gerrymandering?

There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Yeah . . . that was totally normal stuff that happened in the Oval today. It's grand sure!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 11, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
Idiot claiming "tremendous amounts of wall have been built"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM


There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Hey Dolph- welcome to the board, there's a lot of reason not to debate things entirely your call.

Is your argument that Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college system- don't think anyone is disagreeing.

Is there more you'd like to add? or just going straight to the baseless slagging?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM


There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Hey Dolph- welcome to the board, there's a lot of reason not to debate things entirely your call.

Is your argument that Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college system- don't think anyone is disagreeing.

Is there more you'd like to add? or just going straight to the baseless slagging?

Hegan - Baseless slagging? you just proved my point. You bring up the electoral college angle because you can't let it go.  It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:02:01 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2018, 06:03:17 PM
Is there anyone left on the board to debate this shit, whether it's Trump or the party that have prostituted themselves to him, their policies on guns and the environment, their demonization and dehumanization of immigrants, Muslims and other minorities, or their cynical, anti-democratic, scorched earth power grabs and gerrymandering?

There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Well, its a good job for this thread that we have some brash new conservative blood like yourself to stand up for the Trump/GOP approach.

Defend away...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM


There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Hey Dolph- welcome to the board, there's a lot of reason not to debate things entirely your call.

Is your argument that Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college system- don't think anyone is disagreeing.

Is there more you'd like to add? or just going straight to the baseless slagging?

Hegan - Baseless slagging? you just proved my point. You bring up the electoral college angle because you can't let it go.  It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.

How about setting up the questions honestly?

I don't know any Democratic politician, or indeed liberal-leaning person, who is in favour of just allowing people to flow into the country, unvetted or unlimited.

Yes, Individual 1 wants to grandstand about the "open borders" Democrats, but just because he continuously peddles lies and bullshit for political reasons doesn't mean that everyone else should engage in a straw man debate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM


There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Hey Dolph- welcome to the board, there's a lot of reason not to debate things entirely your call.

Is your argument that Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college system- don't think anyone is disagreeing.

Is there more you'd like to add? or just going straight to the baseless slagging?

Hegan - Baseless slagging? you just proved my point. You bring up the electoral college angle because you can't let it go.  It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.

How about setting up the questions honestly?

I don't know any Democratic politician, or indeed liberal-leaning person, who is in favour of just allowing people to flow into the country, unvetted or unlimited.

Yes, Individual 1 wants to grandstand about the "open borders" Democrats, but just because he continuously peddles lies and bullshit for political reasons doesn't mean that everyone else should engage in a straw man debate.

If you agree with Trump about effectively stopping unvetted and unlimited immigration then you need a wall along with an effective vetting rocedure. Obama, Clinton, Schumer and the rest all were in favour of a wall in years gone by but have switched their attitude for self-preservation. Tell me that isn't true.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM


There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Hey Dolph- welcome to the board, there's a lot of reason not to debate things entirely your call.

Is your argument that Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college system- don't think anyone is disagreeing.

Is there more you'd like to add? or just going straight to the baseless slagging?

Hegan - Baseless slagging? you just proved my point. You bring up the electoral college angle because you can't let it go.  It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.

How about setting up the questions honestly?

I don't know any Democratic politician, or indeed liberal-leaning person, who is in favour of just allowing people to flow into the country, unvetted or unlimited.

Yes, Individual 1 wants to grandstand about the "open borders" Democrats, but just because he continuously peddles lies and bullshit for political reasons doesn't mean that everyone else should engage in a straw man debate.

If you agree with Trump about effectively stopping unvetted and unlimited immigration then you need a wall along with an effective vetting rocedure. Obama, Clinton, Schumer and the rest all were in favour of a wall in years gone by but have switched their attitude for self-preservation. Tell me that isn't true.

1. What is an "effective vetting procedure" and how does it differ from what's been in place?
2. Go ahead and post where the Dems (or indeed any Republican in a position of power) has called for a physical wall along all, or indeed, a substantial length, of the US southern border?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2018, 01:00:03 PM
You're wasting your breath

Democrats love what's happening at the border because it gives them a cudgel to bash Trump

Obama tear gassed people at the border.....not a peep

Obama put kids in cages.....not a peep

Obama separates "families"......not a peep


See, illegals are counted in the census, and if you paid the numbers with illegals you get more seats in Congress and by default more Electoral College votes. (Not to mention Federal Funding)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2018, 01:07:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2018, 01:00:03 PM
You're wasting your breath

Democrats love what's happening at the border because it gives them a cudgel to bash Trump

Obama tear gassed people at the border.....not a peep

Obama put kids in cages.....not a peep

Obama separates "families"......not a peep


See, illegals are counted in the census, and if you paid the numbers with illegals you get more seats in Congress and by default more Electoral College votes. (Not to mention Federal Funding)

Whitey once again posting bullshit that's been repeatedly addressed, debated and refuted in this very thread.

Wasting breath indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2018, 01:37:13 PM
I would also ask, whitey, do YOU "love" what's been happening at the border?

You're a self-proclaimed "never- Trumper", continually, by your own words on this site, appalled at his personal conduct and rhetoric.

I don't need another "cudgel" to bash Trump. I absolutely do not need him to sink (as a stated matter of policy to present some kind of "deterrent") to the unprecedented and deliberately callous, dehumanizing cruelty of ripping wailing toddlers out of their screaming mothers' arms, to become separated from them for undetermined lengths of time, often thousands of miles away. Do you?

Trump, whether it is on the policy front or by his personal behaviour and conduct as a human being, departed the realm of normal, objectionable due to his policies, politician or president long ago. The baby separation was merely another illustration that the normal limits do not apply.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2018, 01:40:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 01:07:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2018, 01:00:03 PM
You're wasting your breath

Democrats love what's happening at the border because it gives them a cudgel to bash Trump

Obama tear gassed people at the border.....not a peep

Obama put kids in cages.....not a peep

Obama separates "families"......not a peep


See, illegals are counted in the census, and if you paid the numbers with illegals you get more seats in Congress and by default more Electoral College votes. (Not to mention Federal Funding)

Whitey once again posting bullshit that's been repeatedly addressed, debated and refuted in this very thread.

Wasting breath indeed.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/12/several-administrations-used-tear-gas-at-the-border/


Believe whatever you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2018, 02:10:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2018, 01:40:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 01:07:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2018, 01:00:03 PM
You're wasting your breath

Democrats love what's happening at the border because it gives them a cudgel to bash Trump

Obama tear gassed people at the border.....not a peep

Obama put kids in cages.....not a peep

Obama separates "families"......not a peep


See, illegals are counted in the census, and if you paid the numbers with illegals you get more seats in Congress and by default more Electoral College votes. (Not to mention Federal Funding)

Whitey once again posting bullshit that's been repeatedly addressed, debated and refuted in this very thread.

Wasting breath indeed.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/12/several-administrations-used-tear-gas-at-the-border/


Believe whatever you want

I may have missed it, but who on this thread was losing the head over the recent tear gas incident at Tijuana?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM


There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Hey Dolph- welcome to the board, there's a lot of reason not to debate things entirely your call.

Is your argument that Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college system- don't think anyone is disagreeing.

Is there more you'd like to add? or just going straight to the baseless slagging?

Hegan - Baseless slagging? you just proved my point. You bring up the electoral college angle because you can't let it go.  It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.

How about setting up the questions honestly?

I don't know any Democratic politician, or indeed liberal-leaning person, who is in favour of just allowing people to flow into the country, unvetted or unlimited.

Yes, Individual 1 wants to grandstand about the "open borders" Democrats, but just because he continuously peddles lies and bullshit for political reasons doesn't mean that everyone else should engage in a straw man debate.

If you agree with Trump about effectively stopping unvetted and unlimited immigration then you need a wall along with an effective vetting rocedure. Obama, Clinton, Schumer and the rest all were in favour of a wall in years gone by but have switched their attitude for self-preservation. Tell me that isn't true.

1. What is an "effective vetting procedure" and how does it differ from what's been in place?
2. Go ahead and post where the Dems (or indeed any Republican in a position of power) has called for a physical wall along all, or indeed, a substantial length, of the US southern border?

Hillary Clinton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFi0QUboxs

Clinton, Schumer and Obama have in the past been against open border policy. Now they don't care.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 12, 2018, 02:50:08 PM
 It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.
†*************†***************"†
Listen kid,
The system of presidential election in the  US is the electoral college, if the majority had voted for something it is democracy or will of the people, when majority rule is not accepted, similar to gerrymandering, it is not quite a democracy. Not that majority rule is necessarily a good thing. A greater percentage vated Remain in the UK referendum than voted for Trump in the US.

Your points in order you put them.

What is the point of the wall? Optics for under educated voters in rural states and for bigots in the rest.
All of the UK move to Ireland? Your analogy to the US would be all of the people on the planet move to the US. The science has already been done for them all moving to Rhode island maybe you should read that.

To give you some context, I'm an Irishman living in the US because I have a skill that there is a shortage of and hence my visas and green card.
The US does not have unlimited immigration.
the US does not let immigrants in unvetted.
No border security has a wholesale policy of catch and release.
In the US illegal immigrants are a net contributor to the economy and tax revenue.
As before my job has a significant shortage of skilled workers in the IS so it would be great to see more qualified people coming in wanting to do it.  Also the whole immigrant wage pressure on a work force doesn't exactly stand up to much (any) scutiny from an economic standpoint does it. You are aware of course that there is a significant shortfall in the US labor force. The lack of qualified people in the US and the current administration policies are forcing American companies to open in Canada near the border to grow.

I think every sane person in the world wants their community to be safe, but as you seem incapable of grasping that has zero correlation with immigration policy.

Look, good to have a counter opinion here. A few conservatives short is where we are, a skills shortage as it were, and we'd like to fill the role with qualified people. Whitey and I disagree on a regular basis, i respect the hell out of his right to opinions that I disagree with.

I pontifiacte a lot, I'm aware of my shortcomings but try to make a decent argument, a strawman with some logic goes a long way. Stats are massive, very helpful and sometimes even true.

On a closing note, the United States is a constitutional republic and was built on and by immigrants, trampling over the natives.it is a young country with crumbling infrastructure, a labor shortfall, stagnating industry, and an electoral system that allows great wealth and power to unduly influence not only the voting process, but also the legislative process and therefore the laws. 

The country desperately needs the status quo challenged. The young and the former minorities need to vote in their interest and the gerrymandering of voting needs to change.

And it needs immigration quickly to control the current economic deterioration, more to stall it, and significantly more to provide for prosperity and growth. And a new immigration that supports that would be in the interest of every resident of the US, legal or otherwise.

That might be immature, but it's factually correct.

(Excuse the typos, sent from a phone on a train)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 03:20:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 01:37:13 PM
I don't need another "cudgel" to bash Trump. I absolutely do not need him to sink (as a stated matter of policy to present some kind of "deterrent") to the unprecedented and deliberately callous, dehumanizing cruelty of ripping wailing toddlers out of their screaming mothers' arms, to become separated from them for undetermined lengths of time, often thousands of miles away. Do you?

Enough with the sob stories. They knew they travelled with the intention of breaking the law to enter the US.
What's worse is the NGO's facilitating the transfer of these people who clearly knew what situation these families would find themselves in but used them as cannon fodder anyway. That's deliberately callous and cruel.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 12, 2018, 03:37:24 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 03:20:36 PM
That's deliberately callous and cruel.

yeah, you nailed it, the NGOs are deliberately cruel, that's the problem right there.

Daft brush
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2018, 03:44:43 PM
The problem is that we share a direct/indirect land border with close to 750,000,000 people

Many of these people live in third world conditions

I don't blame them for one moment for trying to move here, but we already have large swaths of our own population living in close to Third World conditions. They should be our first priority

On top of that we have close to 12,000,000 people already living in the country illegaly.  Let's get these people legalized, contributing and integrated before we let more people in

The problem is that any efforts to control the border is met by faux outrage from the left as is evidenced by the "kids in cages" nonsense.  Building a wall is probably the most fvckin stupid idea, I have ever heard, but Democratic demonizing of ICE and Border Patrol for enforcing the law is beyond the pale
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 03:45:55 PM
Quote from: heganboy on December 12, 2018, 02:50:08 PM
It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.
†*************†***************"†
Listen kid,
The system of presidential election in the  US is the electoral college, if the majority had voted for something it is democracy or will of the people, when majority rule is not accepted, similar to gerrymandering, it is not quite a democracy. Not that majority rule is necessarily a good thing. A greater percentage vated Remain in the UK referendum than voted for Trump in the US.

Your points in order you put them.

What is the point of the wall? Optics for under educated voters in rural states and for bigots in the rest.
All of the UK move to Ireland? Your analogy to the US would be all of the people on the planet move to the US. The science has already been done for them all moving to Rhode island maybe you should read that.

To give you some context, I'm an Irishman living in the US because I have a skill that there is a shortage of and hence my visas and green card.
The US does not have unlimited immigration.
the US does not let immigrants in unvetted.
No border security has a wholesale policy of catch and release.
In the US illegal immigrants are a net contributor to the economy and tax revenue.
As before my job has a significant shortage of skilled workers in the IS so it would be great to see more qualified people coming in wanting to do it.  Also the whole immigrant wage pressure on a work force doesn't exactly stand up to much (any) scutiny from an economic standpoint does it. You are aware of course that there is a significant shortfall in the US labor force. The lack of qualified people in the US and the current administration policies are forcing American companies to open in Canada near the border to grow.

I think every sane person in the world wants their community to be safe, but as you seem incapable of grasping that has zero correlation with immigration policy.

Look, good to have a counter opinion here. A few conservatives short is where we are, a skills shortage as it were, and we'd like to fill the role with qualified people. Whitey and I disagree on a regular basis, i respect the hell out of his right to opinions that I disagree with.

I pontifiacte a lot, I'm aware of my shortcomings but try to make a decent argument, a strawman with some logic goes a long way. Stats are massive, very helpful and sometimes even true.

On a closing note, the United States is a constitutional republic and was built on and by immigrants, trampling over the natives.it is a young country with crumbling infrastructure, a labor shortfall, stagnating industry, and an electoral system that allows great wealth and power to unduly influence not only the voting process, but also the legislative process and therefore the laws. 

The country desperately needs the status quo challenged. The young and the former minorities need to vote in their interest and the gerrymandering of voting needs to change.

And it needs immigration quickly to control the current economic deterioration, more to stall it, and significantly more to provide for prosperity and growth. And a new immigration that supports that would be in the interest of every resident of the US, legal or otherwise.

That might be immature, but it's factually correct.

(Excuse the typos, sent from a phone on a train)

You started with yet another rant about how the election was stolen and it just goes downhill from there. C'mon, get over it. It's 2 years now and possibly another 6 to go. Your mental health is at stake.
Immigration brings prosperity and growth. LOL. You have swallowed the democrat playbook for sure. You surely mean crime and poverty.
You are factually correct in your own mind ;)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2018, 03:51:49 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 03:20:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 01:37:13 PM
I don't need another "cudgel" to bash Trump. I absolutely do not need him to sink (as a stated matter of policy to present some kind of "deterrent") to the unprecedented and deliberately callous, dehumanizing cruelty of ripping wailing toddlers out of their screaming mothers' arms, to become separated from them for undetermined lengths of time, often thousands of miles away. Do you?

Enough with the sob stories. They knew they travelled with the intention of breaking the law to enter the US.
What's worse is the NGO's facilitating the transfer of these people who clearly knew what situation these families would find themselves in but used them as cannon fodder anyway. That's deliberately callous and cruel.

Clearly you either have no children or you don't see these people as human beings if you are so cavalier about what was taking place. And it's wasn't just those illegally crossing either. If whatever NGO you are on about has fault in this, fine, but that does not in any shape or form justify what Trump and Sessions did in targeting mothers and children, which is backed up by the fact that the ultimately had to back down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2018, 03:56:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM


There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Hey Dolph- welcome to the board, there's a lot of reason not to debate things entirely your call.

Is your argument that Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college system- don't think anyone is disagreeing.

Is there more you'd like to add? or just going straight to the baseless slagging?

Hegan - Baseless slagging? you just proved my point. You bring up the electoral college angle because you can't let it go.  It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.

How about setting up the questions honestly?

I don't know any Democratic politician, or indeed liberal-leaning person, who is in favour of just allowing people to flow into the country, unvetted or unlimited.

Yes, Individual 1 wants to grandstand about the "open borders" Democrats, but just because he continuously peddles lies and bullshit for political reasons doesn't mean that everyone else should engage in a straw man debate.

If you agree with Trump about effectively stopping unvetted and unlimited immigration then you need a wall along with an effective vetting rocedure. Obama, Clinton, Schumer and the rest all were in favour of a wall in years gone by but have switched their attitude for self-preservation. Tell me that isn't true.

1. What is an "effective vetting procedure" and how does it differ from what's been in place?
2. Go ahead and post where the Dems (or indeed any Republican in a position of power) has called for a physical wall along all, or indeed, a substantial length, of the US southern border?

Hillary Clinton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFi0QUboxs

Clinton, Schumer and Obama have in the past been against open border policy. Now they don't care.

Are you the resurrection of foxcommander?

Your straw man arguments are at about the same level.

Schumer at al have agreed to 1.5 billion for border funding. Clinton (going by the title of your video) agreed with a fence (not a huge concrete wall).

Yet you're crying on the other hand about the non-existent open border policy of the Dems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on December 12, 2018, 04:26:18 PM
Wha.........

Are the Mexicans not paying for this wall?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 12, 2018, 05:05:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 03:56:06 PMAre you the resurrection of foxcommander?

Good shout



Cohen gets 36 months in jail
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 03:56:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM


There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Hey Dolph- welcome to the board, there's a lot of reason not to debate things entirely your call.

Is your argument that Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college system- don't think anyone is disagreeing.

Is there more you'd like to add? or just going straight to the baseless slagging?

Hegan - Baseless slagging? you just proved my point. You bring up the electoral college angle because you can't let it go.  It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.

How about setting up the questions honestly?

I don't know any Democratic politician, or indeed liberal-leaning person, who is in favour of just allowing people to flow into the country, unvetted or unlimited.

Yes, Individual 1 wants to grandstand about the "open borders" Democrats, but just because he continuously peddles lies and bullshit for political reasons doesn't mean that everyone else should engage in a straw man debate.

If you agree with Trump about effectively stopping unvetted and unlimited immigration then you need a wall along with an effective vetting rocedure. Obama, Clinton, Schumer and the rest all were in favour of a wall in years gone by but have switched their attitude for self-preservation. Tell me that isn't true.

1. What is an "effective vetting procedure" and how does it differ from what's been in place?
2. Go ahead and post where the Dems (or indeed any Republican in a position of power) has called for a physical wall along all, or indeed, a substantial length, of the US southern border?

Hillary Clinton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFi0QUboxs

Clinton, Schumer and Obama have in the past been against open border policy. Now they don't care.

Are you the resurrection of foxcommander?

Your straw man arguments are at about the same level.

Schumer at al have agreed to 1.5 billion for border funding. Clinton (going by the title of your video) agreed with a fence (not a huge concrete wall).

Yet you're crying on the other hand about the non-existent open border policy of the Dems.

No but that's one way to signal to your pals to attack someone with an opposing view. So much for welcoming debate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2018, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 03:56:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2018, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 12, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 11, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 11, 2018, 06:46:03 PM


There isn't much point in debating with the CNN brainwashed.

If you read back through this thread you'll find so much nonsense from democrat supporters who think the world is about to end because Hillary Clinton didn't win an election.

Donald Trump won. Grow up and move on. But you can't....

Hey Dolph- welcome to the board, there's a lot of reason not to debate things entirely your call.

Is your argument that Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college system- don't think anyone is disagreeing.

Is there more you'd like to add? or just going straight to the baseless slagging?

Hegan - Baseless slagging? you just proved my point. You bring up the electoral college angle because you can't let it go.  It comes across as very immature.

I see a lot of outrage from the democrat supporters regarding the wall. It might be more sobering to look at the US situation and apply it to Ireland. Would you then be as favourable? Just say that after Brexit the whole of the UK decided to move to Ireland.

Would you want Ireland to allow unlimited immigration?
Would you want the immigrants to be allowed in unvetted? (border security just let them through or catch and release)
Would you want to pay more tax to fund the above and their immediate/long term needs and all the facilities required.
Would you want to run the risk of losing your job or having to lower your wages to compete with this new labour force?
Would you want your communities to be safe?

Try answering that honestly. If you can say none of the above concern you I'd find it very strange.

How about setting up the questions honestly?

I don't know any Democratic politician, or indeed liberal-leaning person, who is in favour of just allowing people to flow into the country, unvetted or unlimited.

Yes, Individual 1 wants to grandstand about the "open borders" Democrats, but just because he continuously peddles lies and bullshit for political reasons doesn't mean that everyone else should engage in a straw man debate.

If you agree with Trump about effectively stopping unvetted and unlimited immigration then you need a wall along with an effective vetting rocedure. Obama, Clinton, Schumer and the rest all were in favour of a wall in years gone by but have switched their attitude for self-preservation. Tell me that isn't true.

1. What is an "effective vetting procedure" and how does it differ from what's been in place?
2. Go ahead and post where the Dems (or indeed any Republican in a position of power) has called for a physical wall along all, or indeed, a substantial length, of the US southern border?

Hillary Clinton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFi0QUboxs

Clinton, Schumer and Obama have in the past been against open border policy. Now they don't care.

Are you the resurrection of foxcommander?

Your straw man arguments are at about the same level.

Schumer at al have agreed to 1.5 billion for border funding. Clinton (going by the title of your video) agreed with a fence (not a huge concrete wall).

Yet you're crying on the other hand about the non-existent open border policy of the Dems.

No but that's one way to signal to your pals to attack someone with an opposing view. So much for welcoming debate.

Ah, the old "anyone who disagrees with you" straw man. It's Foxcommander all right. Time for a quick sockpuppet investigation and summary dismissal. We don't need trolls like that around here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 12, 2018, 11:23:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2018, 03:44:43 PM
The problem is that we share a direct/indirect land border with close to 750,000,000 people

Many of these people live in third world conditions

I don't blame them for one moment for trying to move here, but we already have large swaths of our own population living in close to Third World conditions. They should be our first priority

On top of that we have close to 12,000,000 people already living in the country illegaly.  Let's get these people legalized, contributing and integrated before we let more people in

The problem is that any efforts to control the border is met by faux outrage from the left as is evidenced by the "kids in cages" nonsense.  Building a wall is probably the most fvckin stupid idea, I have ever heard, but Democratic demonizing of ICE and Border Patrol for enforcing the law is beyond the pale

And as if by magic Whitey and I are on the same page here, literally the entire post.

Dolph, away on will ya??

Eejit.

You play the game by the rules, it's like saying a square ball is a stupid rule when you got called for it. The rules for the presidential election are the rules of the electoral college. There's no complaints and no allegation of stealing. Dems won a game that didn't count, and it's their own fault.

That Dem playbook you speak of, any chance you can share it, sounds like basic economic theory and the evidence of every economic success since the industrial revolution outside of the British empire.

Or you know, all of the actual facts.

But sure that doesn't validate your ideas does it, so therefore it must be wrong. Speaking of which, what's Santa bringing you this year?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on December 13, 2018, 02:37:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on December 12, 2018, 11:23:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2018, 03:44:43 PM
The problem is that we share a direct/indirect land border with close to 750,000,000 people

Many of these people live in third world conditions

I don't blame them for one moment for trying to move here, but we already have large swaths of our own population living in close to Third World conditions. They should be our first priority

On top of that we have close to 12,000,000 people already living in the country illegaly.  Let's get these people legalized, contributing and integrated before we let more people in

The problem is that any efforts to control the border is met by faux outrage from the left as is evidenced by the "kids in cages" nonsense.  Building a wall is probably the most fvckin stupid idea, I have ever heard, but Democratic demonizing of ICE and Border Patrol for enforcing the law is beyond the pale

And as if by magic Whitey and I are on the same page here, literally the entire post.

Dolph, away on will ya??

Eejit.

You play the game by the rules, it's like saying a square ball is a stupid rule when you got called for it. The rules for the presidential election are the rules of the electoral college. There's no complaints and no allegation of stealing. Dems won a game that didn't count, and it's their own fault.

That Dem playbook you speak of, any chance you can share it, sounds like basic economic theory and the evidence of every economic success since the industrial revolution outside of the British empire.

Or you know, all of the actual facts.

But sure that doesn't validate your ideas does it, so therefore it must be wrong. Speaking of which, what's Santa bringing you this year?

This is what the defeated normally resort to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 13, 2018, 06:36:10 AM
Yes Seamus as Father Jack would say.. Girls.. Drink ... Feck.. !!! :-\
What are you talking about. A coherent response would be a nice surprise.

As for you Dolph.. I  am going to give you an "A" for your introductory contributions and add that "A" to your handle and now you are Adolph.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on December 13, 2018, 12:28:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on December 13, 2018, 06:36:10 AM
Yes Seamus as Father Jack would say.. Girls.. Drink ... Feck.. !!! :-\
What are you talking about. A coherent response would be a nice surprise.

As for you Dolph.. I  am going to give you an "A" for your introductory contributions and add that "A" to your handle and now you are Adolph.

You're even slower than usual this morning omochain
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 13, 2018, 12:30:39 PM
Quote from: Seamus on December 13, 2018, 12:28:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on December 13, 2018, 06:36:10 AM
Yes Seamus as Father Jack would say.. Girls.. Drink ... Feck.. !!! :-\
What are you talking about. A coherent response would be a nice surprise.

As for you Dolph.. I  am going to give you an "A" for your introductory contributions and add that "A" to your handle and now you are Adolph.

You're even slower than usual this morning omochain

(https://nearlylivenews.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/jim-corr.jpg)

Good man Jimbo :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2018, 12:31:40 PM
I hear Nancy Pelosi runs a paedophile ring from a curry house?

Is this true, Seamus?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 13, 2018, 12:48:16 PM
Quote from: Seamus on December 13, 2018, 02:37:06 AM


This is what the defeated normally resort to.

Wait, I think I know this one.

I know I am but what are you?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on December 13, 2018, 03:43:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2018, 12:31:40 PM
I hear Nancy Pelosi runs a paedophile ring from a curry house?

Is this true, Seamus?

Ask Hillary or Barry
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2018, 03:53:44 PM
Quote from: Seamus on December 13, 2018, 03:43:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2018, 12:31:40 PM
I hear Nancy Pelosi runs a paedophile ring from a curry house?

Is this true, Seamus?

Ask Hillary or Barry
I just did - I'm in the illuminati, so I have them on speed dial. They said it's nonsense.

What's your view on Hitler?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2018, 11:04:23 AM
US "border control agents" are sadists.

7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/7-year-old-migrant-girl-taken-into-border-patrol-custody-dies-of-dehydration-exhaustion/2018/12/13/8909e356-ff03-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8f0e729a06f7

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 14, 2018, 11:37:20 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2018, 11:04:23 AM
US "border control agents" are sadists.

7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/7-year-old-migrant-girl-taken-into-border-patrol-custody-dies-of-dehydration-exhaustion/2018/12/13/8909e356-ff03-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8f0e729a06f7

"Food and water are typically provided to migrants in Border Patrol custody, and it wasn't immediately clear Thursday if the girl received provisions and a medical exam before the onset of seizures."

Girl hadn't eaten or drank water in days prior to apprehension.

To imply that she died due to neglect by Border Patrol Agents is highly irresponsible until the facts are known.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 14, 2018, 12:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 14, 2018, 11:37:20 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2018, 11:04:23 AM
US "border control agents" are sadists.

7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/7-year-old-migrant-girl-taken-into-border-patrol-custody-dies-of-dehydration-exhaustion/2018/12/13/8909e356-ff03-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8f0e729a06f7

"Food and water are typically provided to migrants in Border Patrol custody, and it wasn't immediately clear Thursday if the girl received provisions and a medical exam before the onset of seizures."

Girl hadn't eaten or drank water in days prior to apprehension.

To imply that she died due to neglect by Border Patrol Agents is highly irresponsible until the facts are known.

Jesus whitey they had her for 8 hours please the girl was 7 years old!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2018, 12:49:54 PM
How predictable was it that a fascist would steam in to defend the inhumane treatment of a seven year-old girl by the ICE gestapo?

Entirely f**king predictable.

Fascists are deeply predictable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2018, 12:52:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2018, 12:49:54 PM
How predictable was it that a fascist would steam in to defend the inhumane treatment of a seven year-old girl by the ICE gestapo?

Entirely f**king predictable.

Fascists are deeply predictable.
Whitey said "typically" which means "Under Obama".
Recent ICe behaviour has been brutal
Trump wants to make an example of migrants pour encourager les autres.
A child dying is probably a message to El Salvador, Guatemala etc. Look at what the Gringos will do

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 14, 2018, 01:15:25 PM
Is Trump fucked with this Cohen/Mueller thing now?? Surely the GOP can see it's going downhill for him and will stick the boot in on his way out as the best way for them to not get dragged into it is to start pushing against him?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2018, 01:20:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 14, 2018, 01:15:25 PM
Is Trump fucked with this Cohen/Mueller thing now?? Surely the GOP can see it's going downhill for him and will stick the boot in on his way out as the best way for them to not get dragged into it is to start pushing against him?!


Scott Dworkin

@funder
·
12h

« BREAKING: Russian spy Maria Butina just admitted in federal court to engaging in a conspiracy against the United States with the Russian Gov't. Butina said she acted "under direction of" Russian Gov't official Alexander Torshin. This is devestating for the NRA, Russia & Trump. »

Tony Schwartz

@tonyschwartz
·
6m

« The only reason Trump isn't feeling  outright panic is that he 's gotten away with so much, for so long that he still holds on to the grandiose fantasy that he cant ever be held accountable. He will be.  I have believed that from day one. If I'm wrong, God save the Republic. »


But the video is the dog's bollocks


https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 14, 2018, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2018, 12:49:54 PM
How predictable was it that a fascist would steam in to defend the inhumane treatment of a seven year-old girl by the ICE gestapo?

Entirely f**king predictable.

Fascists are deeply predictable.

How predictable that leftie posters on here had their pitchforks ablazin long before the facts are known.

168 people crossed.

What's if it was a 2 man Border Patrol who apprehended them?

How the fvck would they be able to perform medical assessments on 168 people who had walked through the desert for days without food or water?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 14, 2018, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 14, 2018, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2018, 12:49:54 PM
How predictable was it that a fascist would steam in to defend the inhumane treatment of a seven year-old girl by the ICE gestapo?

Entirely f**king predictable.

Fascists are deeply predictable.

How predictable that leftie posters on here had their pitchforks ablazin long before the facts are known.

168 people crossed.

What's if it was a 2 man Border Patrol who apprehended them?

How the fvck would they be able to perform medical assessments on 168 people who had walked through the desert for days without food or water?

If only ICE had more funding so they could afford more border agents...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 14, 2018, 02:08:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 14, 2018, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 14, 2018, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2018, 12:49:54 PM
How predictable was it that a fascist would steam in to defend the inhumane treatment of a seven year-old girl by the ICE gestapo?

Entirely f**king predictable.

Fascists are deeply predictable.

How predictable that leftie posters on here had their pitchforks ablazin long before the facts are known.

168 people crossed.

What's if it was a 2 man Border Patrol who apprehended them?

How the fvck would they be able to perform medical assessments on 168 people who had walked through the desert for days without food or water?

If only ICE had more funding so they could afford more border agents...

LOL!! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on December 14, 2018, 02:17:11 PM
2 border patrol guys apprehended 168 desperate immigrants?

That's impressive
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2018, 05:41:49 PM
Here's my theory as to why crime has been steadily falling for decades (notwithstanding conservative claims that it isn't, regardless of reality or facts):


Like the Catholic church became a go-to destination for paedophiles, the US has created all manner of institutions that are attractive environments for all manner of deadly psychopaths, all in the name of "law and order." What a joke.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 14, 2018, 06:42:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2018, 05:41:49 PM
Here's my theory as to why crime has been steadily falling for decades (notwithstanding conservative claims that it isn't, regardless of reality or facts):


  • Wanna shoot an Arab? Go to Israel and join the IDF where you can get away with it.
  • Wanna shoot a Mexican? Join the border patrol. Hell, you can even open fire across the border (which would normally be considered an act of war) and get away with that too.
  • Wanna just rough up some immigrants and terrorize defenceless people? Join ICE.
  • Wanna rough up / harass / beat / kill some blacks? Join the cops.
  • Wanna torture blacks or anyone else for that matter? Become a prison guard.

Like the Catholic church became a go-to destination for paedophiles, the US has created all manner of institutions that are attractive environments for all manner of deadly psychopaths, all in the name of "law and order." What a joke.

Good man......keep her lit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 14, 2018, 11:12:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2018, 01:20:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 14, 2018, 01:15:25 PM
Is Trump fucked with this Cohen/Mueller thing now?? Surely the GOP can see it's going downhill for him and will stick the boot in on his way out as the best way for them to not get dragged into it is to start pushing against him?!


Scott Dworkin

@funder
·
12h

« BREAKING: Russian spy Maria Butina just admitted in federal court to engaging in a conspiracy against the United States with the Russian Gov't. Butina said she acted "under direction of" Russian Gov't official Alexander Torshin. This is devestating for the NRA, Russia & Trump. »

Tony Schwartz

@tonyschwartz
·
6m

« The only reason Trump isn't feeling  outright panic is that he 's gotten away with so much, for so long that he still holds on to the grandiose fantasy that he cant ever be held accountable. He will be.  I have believed that from day one. If I'm wrong, God save the Republic. »


But the video is the dog's bollocks


https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057

NBC weren't too bothered about this "criminal empire" when they gave him an ego inflating game show for ten seasons. No, they only cared when he went to the other side of the aisle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 15, 2018, 02:11:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 14, 2018, 06:42:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2018, 05:41:49 PM
Here's my theory as to why crime has been steadily falling for decades (notwithstanding conservative claims that it isn't, regardless of reality or facts):


  • Wanna shoot an Arab? Go to Israel and join the IDF where you can get away with it.
  • Wanna shoot a Mexican? Join the border patrol. Hell, you can even open fire across the border (which would normally be considered an act of war) and get away with that too.
  • Wanna just rough up some immigrants and terrorize defenceless people? Join ICE.
  • Wanna rough up / harass / beat / kill some blacks? Join the cops.
  • Wanna torture blacks or anyone else for that matter? Become a prison guard.

Like the Catholic church became a go-to destination for paedophiles, the US has created all manner of institutions that are attractive environments for all manner of deadly psychopaths, all in the name of "law and order." What a joke.

Good man......keep her lit
liberalism is a mental disorder
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2018, 02:59:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 14, 2018, 11:37:20 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2018, 11:04:23 AM
US "border control agents" are sadists.

7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/7-year-old-migrant-girl-taken-into-border-patrol-custody-dies-of-dehydration-exhaustion/2018/12/13/8909e356-ff03-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8f0e729a06f7

"Food and water are typically provided to migrants in Border Patrol custody, and it wasn't immediately clear Thursday if the girl received provisions and a medical exam before the onset of seizures."

Girl hadn't eaten or drank water in days prior to apprehension.

To imply that she died due to neglect by Border Patrol Agents is highly irresponsible until the facts are known.

I agree with you.

Someone should tell DHS head Nielsen though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2018, 03:10:10 PM
Texas court declares Obamacare unconstitutional.

Healthcare and prisons cost 25% of GDP
That is 10% of GDP more than a civilised country
Rent seeking is therefore constitutional
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2018, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2018, 03:10:10 PM
Texas court declares Obamacare unconstitutional.

Healthcare and prisons cost 25% of GDP
That is 10% of GDP more than a civilised country
Rent seeking is therefore constitutional

It will end up back in the Supreme Court, where five sitting justices have already ruled in favour.

Its ironic though that only a week or two back Trump was crying (fraudulently) about the entire Ninth Circuit of Appeals and "Obama judges", but has nothing to say about the judge shopping that ends up with repeated conservative cases in front of this particular judge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2018, 06:02:44 PM
Resignations from the Whorehouse. Quite a few Irish names in there

Top Trump Departures
Yates
Flynn
Walsh
Comey
Dubke
Shaub
McFarland
Corralo
Spicer
Priebus
Mooch
Bannon
Gorka
Icahn
Lotter
Price
Powell
Manigault
Dearborn
McCabe
Porter
Raffel
Hicks
Cohn
Tillerson
McEntee
McMaster
Shulkin
Anton
Bossert
Pruitt
Short
Haley
Sessions
Kelly
Ayers
Zinke
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2018, 10:45:37 PM
Wonder which oil or mining lobbyist they're lining up to replace the corrupt, megalomaniacal, piece of shit Zinke?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 16, 2018, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2018, 10:45:37 PM
Wonder which oil or mining lobbyist they're lining up to replace the corrupt, megalomaniacal, piece of shit Zinke?

Not exactly a glowing recommendation for the next stage in his career!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 16, 2018, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 16, 2018, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2018, 10:45:37 PM
Wonder which oil or mining lobbyist they're lining up to replace the corrupt, megalomaniacal, piece of shit Zinke?

Not exactly a glowing recommendation for the next stage in his career!

He personally, assuming his resignation is the end of any potential legal battles, will land on his feet just fine. I'm sure there are plenty of oil, mining and timber interests who are eager to tap the "knowledge" (it ain't science-based, that's for sure) and connections he will now have on how to exploit public lands and run slipshod over environmental and public health protections.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2018, 01:32:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2018, 03:44:43 PM
The problem is that we share a direct/indirect land border with close to 750,000,000 people

Many of these people live in third world conditions

I don't blame them for one moment for trying to move here, but we already have large swaths of our own population living in close to Third World conditions. They should be our first priority

On top of that we have close to 12,000,000 people already living in the country illegaly.  Let's get these people legalized, contributing and integrated before we let more people in

The problem is that any efforts to control the border is met by faux outrage from the left as is evidenced by the "kids in cages" nonsense.  Building a wall is probably the most fvckin stupid idea, I have ever heard, but Democratic demonizing of ICE and Border Patrol for enforcing the law is beyond the pale

1. The GOP base will not allow the legalization of illegal immigrants already in the US. GW Bush was all ready to sign off on it in his second term before the talk radio/Fox News axis went apeshit. Even McCain walked away from it (his OWN legislation) during the 2008 campaign as he tried to court the GOP base. Same happened with the likes of Mark Rubio during the attempt at the start of Obama's second term. Depicting the whole issue as "if only the left/Dems would be reasonable" is disingenuous, at best.

2. The backlash against ICE is down to the thuggish tactics of targeting non-threatening illegals who are otherwise just going on about their lives. A FOURTH GRADER was grabbed out of a school a couple of blocks away from my house, for example. Stopping buses in upstate NY, nowhere near the border, to question riders and remove suspected illegals. Grabbing people during routine, check-in appointments with authorities, sweeping them up and out of their and their families' lives. After years of targeting those involved in criminal behaviour (and spare me the "illegal entry is a crime" crap- yeah, its a misdemeanor, but we are talking about crimes against people and property), ICE is being used by Trump to scare and intimidate all illegals, law abiding or not, and drive them under ground. Personally, I don't see the need to abolish ICE. A rethink of their tactics and targeting policy is essential, however.

3. I haven't heard anyone criticizing the CBP in terms of doing its job, outside of the child separation policy. 

4. Again, the "kids in cages" bit. You left out the "torn away, screaming, from their distraught parents" between the words "kids" and "in". My "outrage" about that was heartfelt and real. Was yours not?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 17, 2018, 02:35:19 PM
Where was your outrage when the kids were put in cages under Obama? (or did you not know about it because the media didn't report it at the time)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 17, 2018, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 02:35:19 PM
Where was your outrage when the kids were put in cages under Obama? (or did you not know about it because the media didn't report it at the time)

f**k Obama for putting children in cages and f**k Trump as well . . . does that make you feel better??!!

It doesn't change the fact this is happening right now and it's disgusting whoever is doing it!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:00:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 02:35:19 PM
Where was your outrage when the kids were put in cages under Obama? (or did you not know about it because the media didn't report it at the time)


FFS, more whining about the media. It always about them.

I haven't expressed outrage about the cages. Sometimes a surge in numbers can catch authorities out and unprepared in terms of accommodation.

Nor have I ever said that everything done under Obama was beyond criticism. And there was plenty of criticism of Obama during the 2014 crisis regarding overcrowding and unsanitary conditions. ACLU even claimed that minors were being mistreated and abused, in many ways, by the CBP, for years up to and including 2014. The GOP were going apeshit at the time also, albeit not out of any particular concern for the kids, as opposed to Obama's supposed soft, open-border policies.

But whatever shortcomings there were under previous presidents, including Obama, NONE stooped to the appalling, deliberate, dehumanizing callousness of Trump and Sessions. You can cry about the media and the cages all you want, but Donald J. Trump, the darling of the GOP and most of the conservative movement, will go down in history as the man who saw nothing wrong with ripping crying toddlers out of their mothers' arms and shipping them hundreds and thousands of miles away from their desperate parents, all in the name of intimidating others from trying to cross the border or even seek asylum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:19:31 PM
The only reason people know about it now is that they've been spun a false narrative by the media

Look no further than last weeks outrageous headline from the WAPO regarding the 7 year old girl

Of course the low information Democratic base lap this up like cats drinking milk from a saucer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:19:31 PM
The only reason people know about it now is that they've been spun a false narrative by the media

Look no further than last weeks outrageous headline from the WAPO regarding the 7 year old girl

Of course the low information Democratic base lap this up like cats drinking milk from a saucer

What's the false narrative?

Did Trump and Sessions NOT in fact separate young kids from parents as a "deterrent"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
What WaPo headline BTW?

I've checked Google and they range from the father blaming the CBP to the White House blaming the parent to the conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin calling the administration a disgrace for their comments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:46:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:19:31 PM
The only reason people know about it now is that they've been spun a false narrative by the media

Look no further than last weeks outrageous headline from the WAPO regarding the 7 year old girl

Of course the low information Democratic base lap this up like cats drinking milk from a saucer

What's the false narrative?

Did Trump and Sessions NOT in fact separate young kids from parents as a "deterrent"?

Locking kids in cages, losing kids.

Kids were also separated under Obama but not as a matter of policy.

You do realize that sometimes it's almost impossible to determine if the accompanying adults are in fact the parents of the minors?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
What WaPo headline BTW?

I've checked Google and they range from the father blaming the CBP to the White House blaming the parent to the conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin calling the administration a disgrace for their comments.

WAPO Implying that the kid died from neglect at the hands of Border Patrol.

I can't prove it was intentional, but many posters on here read it that way (as did thousands in Twitter )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2018, 04:05:38 PM
I see the forum's resident fascist propagandist is still brazenly dismissing the death of a seven year old as a result of shameful ICE (the US Gestapo) neglect.

He would have been right in his element working at Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek or Sobibor.

A walking experiment in brainwashing, that lad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:46:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:19:31 PM
The only reason people know about it now is that they've been spun a false narrative by the media

Look no further than last weeks outrageous headline from the WAPO regarding the 7 year old girl

Of course the low information Democratic base lap this up like cats drinking milk from a saucer

What's the false narrative?

Did Trump and Sessions NOT in fact separate young kids from parents as a "deterrent"?

Locking kids in cages, losing kids.

Kids were also separated under Obama but not as a matter of policy.

You do realize that sometimes it's almost impossible to determine if the accompanying adults are in fact the parents of the minors?

1. Yes, there was a story initially that the kids were lost, as opposed to the relatives to whom they were released not staying in touch with the authorities. This was corrected quickly, and the general story would have ended there EXCEPT that the intentional separation policy came to light immediately, revealing a much more sinister problem. Yet your only real concern, as per usual, is that the media reported the first story which turned out was a mistake, not the actual real, confirmed, appalling policy.

2. I think everyone realizes that sometimes an adult might use a kid as a shield or prop. So what? Do some investigating. Interviews. Get psychologists and doctors in. Look at paper work. Do a DNA test if you have to. What you don't do is, as a blanket approach, is treat these people as subhuman, like animals or slaves in the old south at an auction, and purposely confiscate their kids and ship them off hundreds of miles, with no outlook of reuniting them, so that others seeking entry will be "deterred".

Once again whitey, defending Trump, trying to draw false equivalencies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
What WaPo headline BTW?

I've checked Google and they range from the father blaming the CBP to the White House blaming the parent to the conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin calling the administration a disgrace for their comments.

WAPO Implying that the kid died from neglect at the hands of Border Patrol.

I can't prove it was intentional, but many posters on here read it that way (as did thousands in Twitter )

What was the headline?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 17, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
What WaPo headline BTW?

I've checked Google and they range from the father blaming the CBP to the White House blaming the parent to the conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin calling the administration a disgrace for their comments.

WAPO Implying that the kid died from neglect at the hands of Border Patrol.

I can't prove it was intentional, but many posters on here read it that way (as did thousands in Twitter )

What was the headline?

"7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion"

And they followed up with this opinion piece today

"Horrifying indifference to children's lives"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2018, 04:39:36 PM
He said she said with Whitey is pointless
Whitey would defend mass murder if it made Trump look good

A bit of light relief :

Hear Me Roar

@Stop_Trump20


"It is still hard to believe that I have seen The First Lady's tits but not Trump's tax returns!!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
What WaPo headline BTW?

I've checked Google and they range from the father blaming the CBP to the White House blaming the parent to the conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin calling the administration a disgrace for their comments.

WAPO Implying that the kid died from neglect at the hands of Border Patrol.

I can't prove it was intentional, but many posters on here read it that way (as did thousands in Twitter )

What was the headline?

"7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion"

And they followed up with this opinion piece today

"Horrifying indifference to children's lives"

That's it??

First one is a factual headline. The kid died hours after being taken into custody. And if anything, the inclusion of the words "dehydration, exhaustion" would lead one to, at least initially, suspect that her journey was a significant factor, unless there's previous evidence that the CBP has been holding people in conditions where they are exposed to high temperatures and humidity without water.

2nd is an opinion piece by one of their CONSERVATIVE columnists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:50:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2018, 04:39:36 PM
He said she said with Whitey is pointless
Whitey would defend mass murder if it made Trump look good

A bit of light relief :

Hear Me Roar

@Stop_Trump20


"It is still hard to believe that I have seen The First Lady's tits but not Trump's tax returns!!"

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 17, 2018, 05:02:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
What WaPo headline BTW?

I've checked Google and they range from the father blaming the CBP to the White House blaming the parent to the conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin calling the administration a disgrace for their comments.

WAPO Implying that the kid died from neglect at the hands of Border Patrol.

I can't prove it was intentional, but many posters on here read it that way (as did thousands in Twitter )

What was the headline?

"7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion"

And they followed up with this opinion piece today

"Horrifying indifference to children's lives"

That's it??

First one is a factual headline. The kid died hours after being taken into custody. And if anything, the inclusion of the words "dehydration, exhaustion" would lead one to, at least initially, suspect that her journey was a significant factor, unless there's previous evidence that the CBP has been holding people in conditions where they are exposed to high temperatures and humidity without water.

2nd is an opinion piece by one of their CONSERVATIVE columnists.

How factual is it?

There is one report that she actually died of Sepsis

The headline could have as easily read "Despite valient efforts by the authorities to save her, 7 year old migrant succumbs........." and still have been factual.


The dehydration bit was interpreted by many (including posters in here) to mean that they were denied basic care.

Poor Sid went one step further and referred to the Border agents as sadists linking in the article
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 17, 2018, 05:34:01 PM
Her father said she was in perfect health when taken into custody. Or as Fox News would have you believe, "she was murdered by her own father."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 05:02:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
What WaPo headline BTW?

I've checked Google and they range from the father blaming the CBP to the White House blaming the parent to the conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin calling the administration a disgrace for their comments.

WAPO Implying that the kid died from neglect at the hands of Border Patrol.

I can't prove it was intentional, but many posters on here read it that way (as did thousands in Twitter )

What was the headline?

"7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion"

And they followed up with this opinion piece today

"Horrifying indifference to children's lives"

That's it??

First one is a factual headline. The kid died hours after being taken into custody. And if anything, the inclusion of the words "dehydration, exhaustion" would lead one to, at least initially, suspect that her journey was a significant factor, unless there's previous evidence that the CBP has been holding people in conditions where they are exposed to high temperatures and humidity without water.

2nd is an opinion piece by one of their CONSERVATIVE columnists.

How factual is it?

There is one report that she actually died of Sepsis

The headline could have as easily read "Despite valient efforts by the authorities to save her, 7 year old migrant succumbs........." and still have been factual.


The dehydration bit was interpreted by many (including posters in here) to mean that they were denied basic care.

Poor Sid went one step further and referred to the Border agents as sadists linking in the article

The headline they used was about as neutral and non-opinionated as you could get.

You've demonstrated that by your own words: I gave you what my first impression would be; you countered with a polar opposite offered by someone here. Same neutral headline: two opposite interpretations.

The WaPo can't control the biases or baggage that their reader brings to a headline.

You're making a baseless accusation here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 17, 2018, 07:16:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 17, 2018, 05:34:01 PM
Her father said she was in perfect health when taken into custody. Or as Fox News would have you believe, "she was murdered by her own father."

Her father is a liar then. How stupid are they to walk through a desert with kids?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 17, 2018, 07:32:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 17, 2018, 07:16:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 17, 2018, 05:34:01 PM
Her father said she was in perfect health when taken into custody. Or as Fox News would have you believe, "she was murdered by her own father."

Her father is a liar then. How stupid are they to walk through a desert with kids?

FoxKKKommander?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2018, 08:56:57 PM
A Russian femme fatale managed to get to the heart of the GOP

https://mobile.twitter.com/FarrerJoe/status/1074558291462799360/photo/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 17, 2018, 10:05:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 05:02:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
What WaPo headline BTW?

I've checked Google and they range from the father blaming the CBP to the White House blaming the parent to the conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin calling the administration a disgrace for their comments.

WAPO Implying that the kid died from neglect at the hands of Border Patrol.

I can't prove it was intentional, but many posters on here read it that way (as did thousands in Twitter )

What was the headline?

"7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion"

And they followed up with this opinion piece today

"Horrifying indifference to children's lives"

That's it??

First one is a factual headline. The kid died hours after being taken into custody. And if anything, the inclusion of the words "dehydration, exhaustion" would lead one to, at least initially, suspect that her journey was a significant factor, unless there's previous evidence that the CBP has been holding people in conditions where they are exposed to high temperatures and humidity without water.

2nd is an opinion piece by one of their CONSERVATIVE columnists.

How factual is it?

There is one report that she actually died of Sepsis

The headline could have as easily read "Despite valient efforts by the authorities to save her, 7 year old migrant succumbs........." and still have been factual.


The dehydration bit was interpreted by many (including posters in here) to mean that they were denied basic care.

Poor Sid went one step further and referred to the Border agents as sadists linking in the article

The headline they used was about as neutral and non-opinionated as you could get.

You've demonstrated that by your own words: I gave you what my first impression would be; you countered with a polar opposite offered by someone here. Same neutral headline: two opposite interpretations.

The WaPo can't control the biases or baggage that their reader brings to a headline.

You're making a baseless accusation here.

LOL.....well Sid, Seafoid, Eamon and Screenexile read it the same way I read it....ie border patrol were somehow to blame for the girls death. (And lashed out as I expected they would)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 17, 2018, 11:53:59 PM
QuoteThe 7-year-old girl who died in Border Patrol custody was healthy before she arrived, father says (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/12/15/year-old-girl-who-died-border-patrol-custody-was-healthy-before-she-arrived-father-says/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fa57c7ff4f8a)

By Michael Brice-Saddler December 15

The 7-year-old Guatemalan girl who died in U.S. Border Patrol custody was healthy before she arrived, and her family is now calling for an "objective and thorough" investigation into her death, a representative for the family said Saturday.

In a statement, the family's attorneys disputed reports that the girl, Jakelin Caal, went several days without food and water before crossing the border, which contradicts statements by the Department of Homeland Security. Ruben Garcia, founder and executive director of Annunciation House — an El Paso-based nonprofit that aids migrants — said that the girl's father, 29-year-old Nery Caal, said she was healthy and had no preexisting conditions.

"He's been very clear, very consistent that his daughter was healthy, and his daughter very much wanted to come with him," Garcia said during the news conference.


Garcia said he could not comment on specifics related to the girl's death, and discouraged the media from speculating about the cause, which is now the subject of an internal investigation at the Department of Homeland Security. Congressional Democrats have also called for meetings with U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials and a full accounting of the incident.

Annunciation House said in a Facebook post that the girl's father was in their care and being hosted in one of their houses. Nery Caal, who was granted provisional release from CBP custody according to consular officials, was not present at the briefing and has not spoken publicly about his daughter's death Dec. 8 from dehydration, shock and liver failure.

"The death of any person while that person is in the custody of Border Patrol needs to be thoroughly and transparently investigated," the post read. "This is doubly so when the person is a 7-year-old."


Jakelin's death was announced Thursday by U.S. Customs and Border Protection after inquiries by The Washington Post, raising questions about the conditions of their facilities. CBP Commissioner Kevin McAleenan told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Tuesday that its stations were not properly suited to handle the record number of asylum seekers crossing the border, which include families and children.

CBP and Department of Homeland Security officials deny that the agency is responsible for what happened to the girl. The Trump Administration has also denied responsibility for her death.

More than a day before she died, Jakelin, her father and 161 other Central American migrants crossed the U.S. border outside of Antelope Wells, N.M., seeking to turn themselves in to Border Patrol agents.


A sobering account of Jakelin's death posted on Facebook by the Department of Homeland Security called the incident "incredibly tragic." The agency said the girl did not show any signs of health issues during a routine check that took place when she and her father were taken into custody.

"The initial screening revealed no evidence of health issues. During the screening, the father denied that either he or his daughter were ill. This denial was recorded on Form I-779 signed by the father," the DHS account said, adding that they were offered food and water, and had access to restrooms. The form was supplied in English, but CBP officials said agents provided a verbal translation.

The family's attorneys said in the statement that it was "unacceptable" to have Caal sign a document in a language that he didn't understand. They also said that false speculation about her death could "undermine" the investigation.

ADVERTISING

In a letter to Rep. Kevin Yoder (R-Kan.) late Friday, McAleenan said the child's father said she "drank water and ate the food offered" while in custody and "was not demonstrating any signs of distress" before her father later notified agents that Jakelin was ill. Yoder is the chairman of the appropriations subcommittee for Homeland Security.

The two were picked up by a bus nearly eight hours after they crossed the border. It was here, DHS said, that Jakelin's father complained that the 7-year-old was sick and vomiting. Her condition apparently worsened over the course of the 90-minute bus ride toward Lordsburg, N.M., which CBP officials said Friday was the fastest way for her to get medical attention.

Her father said his child was no longer breathing as the bus arrived to the station on the morning of Dec. 7. The girl's fever had reached 105.9 degrees and agents providing medical care revived her twice, DHS said.


She died 15 hours later at the Providence Children's Hospital, according to DHS and consular officials. Her father was present during her death.

"We urge investigating authorities to conduct a transparent and neutral investigation into Jakelin's death while in custody," her attorneys said in the statement.

In a letter to DHS Inspector General John Kelly on Friday, senior Democratic lawmakers, including members who will soon chair the House Judiciary and Homeland Security committees, demanded an immediate investigation into the girl's death.

"The investigation should focus on policies and practices designed to protect health and safety, as well as policies and practices that may result in increased migration through particularly harsh terrain," the letter said.

In a Friday morning tweet, Hillary Clinton suggested that the incident was symbolic of the "humanitarian crisis" taking place at the border.

Even the DHS  says she was healthy when taken into custody. Are they lying too?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 18, 2018, 12:59:26 AM
Theyre saying that on initial onservation and based on a form signed by the father she seemed healthy

Do you expect 4 border patrol agents to give rigorous medical examinations to 165 people in the dead of night in a remote country area without access to any real medical facilities.

Preference was given to the 50 unaccompanied minors who made up part of this group and they were sent on the first bus.

So what do you think the border patrol agents did wrong?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 18, 2018, 01:06:09 AM
Guess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 18, 2018, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 10:05:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 05:02:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2018, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
What WaPo headline BTW?

I've checked Google and they range from the father blaming the CBP to the White House blaming the parent to the conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin calling the administration a disgrace for their comments.

WAPO Implying that the kid died from neglect at the hands of Border Patrol.

I can't prove it was intentional, but many posters on here read it that way (as did thousands in Twitter )

What was the headline?

"7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, exhaustion"

And they followed up with this opinion piece today

"Horrifying indifference to children's lives"

That's it??

First one is a factual headline. The kid died hours after being taken into custody. And if anything, the inclusion of the words "dehydration, exhaustion" would lead one to, at least initially, suspect that her journey was a significant factor, unless there's previous evidence that the CBP has been holding people in conditions where they are exposed to high temperatures and humidity without water.

2nd is an opinion piece by one of their CONSERVATIVE columnists.

How factual is it?

There is one report that she actually died of Sepsis

The headline could have as easily read "Despite valient efforts by the authorities to save her, 7 year old migrant succumbs........." and still have been factual.


The dehydration bit was interpreted by many (including posters in here) to mean that they were denied basic care.

Poor Sid went one step further and referred to the Border agents as sadists linking in the article

The headline they used was about as neutral and non-opinionated as you could get.

You've demonstrated that by your own words: I gave you what my first impression would be; you countered with a polar opposite offered by someone here. Same neutral headline: two opposite interpretations.

The WaPo can't control the biases or baggage that their reader brings to a headline.

You're making a baseless accusation here.

LOL.....well Sid, Seafoid, Eamon and Screenexile read it the same way I read it....ie border patrol were somehow to blame for the girls death. (And lashed out as I expected they would)

And...?

FFS your suggested alternate neutral headline talks of "valiant efforts" to save the girl. THAT is not neutral. That is an opinion, an evaluation of the conduct of the authorities. It would be the same if the headline spoke of the "indifference" of the authorities.

The headline to which you object lists the facts. Nothing more. There is no qualifying or editorializing. It would be like saying "girl who crossed Canadian border in dead of winter succumbs to hypothermia hours after being apprehended". Someone like yourself, looking to be offended, would automatically think the headline was blaming the CBP. Others might wonder about her journey through the harsh, Canadian winter leading up to her capture.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 18, 2018, 01:17:22 PM
6 people commented on this news story

5 read it the way I do (me and 4 lefties) one going so far as to accuse the Border Patrol of being sadists

You read it differently. You're entitled to your opinion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 18, 2018, 01:34:14 PM
They were taking her temperature. At 102, surely that was some cause for concern.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 18, 2018, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 18, 2018, 01:17:22 PM
6 people commented on this news story

5 read it the way I do (me and 4 lefties) one going so far as to accuse the Border Patrol of being sadists

You read it differently. You're entitled to your opinion

Five read what, exactly, the way you do?

We are talking about the supposedly "outrageous" headline you objected to.

NOT the overall story which has been reported on by many different entities.

The headline you made such a stink about is NOT slanted or controversial in any way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 18, 2018, 02:21:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 18, 2018, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 18, 2018, 01:17:22 PM
6 people commented on this news story

5 read it the way I do (me and 4 lefties) one going so far as to accuse the Border Patrol of being sadists

You read it differently. You're entitled to your opinion

Five read what, exactly, the way you do?

We are talking about the supposedly "outrageous" headline you objected to.

NOT the overall story which has been reported on by many different entities.

The headline you made such a stink about is NOT slanted or controversial in any way.

I don't think Whitey is credible because he presents the GOP as normal when in fact it is venal.
Regarding the child who died it is more relevant to see how Trumpers mention it on twitter for example.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 18, 2018, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 18, 2018, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 18, 2018, 01:17:22 PM
6 people commented on this news story

5 read it the way I do (me and 4 lefties) one going so far as to accuse the Border Patrol of being sadists

You read it differently. You're entitled to your opinion

Five read what, exactly, the way you do?

We are talking about the supposedly "outrageous" headline you objected to.

NOT the overall story which has been reported on by many different entities.

The headline you made such a stink about is NOT slanted or controversial in any way.

4 others read the article (and I assume the Title) the same way I do.

The Title set the tone for the article, implying BP were to blame for the girls death as is evidence by the first 2 paragraphs of the article

"A 7-year-old girl from Guatemala died of dehydration and shock after she was taken into Border Patrol custody last week for crossing from Mexico into the United States illegally with her father and a large group of migrants along a remote span of New Mexico desert, U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Thursday.

The child's death is likely to intensify scrutiny of detention conditions at Border Patrol stations and CBP facilities that are increasingly overwhelmed by large numbers of families seeking asylum in the United States."


The article is a hit job on Border Patrol and the title was chosen to create a false narrative

I could come up with 20 other titles that would be factually correct that would not imply BP were to blame
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 18, 2018, 02:41:25 PM
You complained about the HEADLINE. It was "outrageous"!!

There is no tone in the headline. Only facts.

As to the article itself, what exactly is wrong with asking about conditions in the CBP facilities? EVERYTHING should be looked at to establish the cause of her death, especially given concerns in recent years. As I posted the other day, CBP facilities and their ability to cope with large numbers of migrants have been questioned for years, under Obama (especially 2014, despite your bogus claims to the contrary) and before.

I can only see the first sentence of the article as it is behind the paywall, but it says that she crossed illegally as part of a large group along a "remote span of New Mexico desert..."

I think some liberal of similar oversensitive and paranoid nature as yourself might be triggered by the setting of her crossing as "illegal" and in a "remote" desert area as part of a large group.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 18, 2018, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 18, 2018, 02:41:25 PM
You complained about the HEADLINE. It was "outrageous"!!

There is no tone in the headline. Only facts.

As to the article itself, what exactly is wrong with asking about conditions in the CBP facilities? EVERYTHING should be looked at to establish the cause of her death, especially given concerns in recent years. As I posted the other day, CBP facilities and their ability to cope with large numbers of migrants have been questioned for years, under Obama (especially 2014, despite your bogus claims to the contrary) and before.

I can only see the first sentence of the article as it is behind the paywall, but it says that she crossed illegally as part of a large group along a "remote span of New Mexico desert..."

I think some liberal of similar oversensitive and paranoid nature as yourself might be triggered by the setting of her crossing as "illegal" and in a "remote" desert area as part of a large group.

LOL

Believe what you want. My opinion is that the article was a hit piece and the title was designed for maximum outrage. You don't

4 left leaning supporters agree with my interpretation of the article.  I have no way of knowing if they agree with my interpretation of the Title (which is part of the article). Based on their insanely over the top reactions describing the BP as SADISTS  and NAZIS they were definitely triggered by something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 18, 2018, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 18, 2018, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 18, 2018, 02:41:25 PM
You complained about the HEADLINE. It was "outrageous"!!

There is no tone in the headline. Only facts.

As to the article itself, what exactly is wrong with asking about conditions in the CBP facilities? EVERYTHING should be looked at to establish the cause of her death, especially given concerns in recent years. As I posted the other day, CBP facilities and their ability to cope with large numbers of migrants have been questioned for years, under Obama (especially 2014, despite your bogus claims to the contrary) and before.

I can only see the first sentence of the article as it is behind the paywall, but it says that she crossed illegally as part of a large group along a "remote span of New Mexico desert..."

I think some liberal of similar oversensitive and paranoid nature as yourself might be triggered by the setting of her crossing as "illegal" and in a "remote" desert area as part of a large group.

LOL

Believe what you want. My opinion is that the article was a hit piece and the title was designed for maximum outrage. You don't

4 left leaning supporters agree with my interpretation of the article.  I have no way of knowing if they agree with my interpretation of the Title (which is part of the article). Based on their insanely over the top reactions describing the BP as SADISTS  and NAZIS they were definitely triggered by something

I think we all know that no one except yourself was triggered by the non-controversial headline.

I'll leave others to speak for themselves on how their opinions on this issue were formed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 18, 2018, 04:54:20 PM
The left should just face facts. Blame should be squarely laid at her family for making her go on that journey. Stop trying to project on others.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 18, 2018, 06:41:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 18, 2018, 01:17:22 PM
6 people commented on this news story

5 read it the way I do (me and 4 lefties) one going so far as to accuse the Border Patrol of being sadists

You read it differently. You're entitled to your opinion

You found comments on the internet that agree with you? Well. That settles it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 18, 2018, 06:59:24 PM
Are the boys chipping in?

QuoteA Fox & Friends segment on Monday suggested that each Trump voter should give $80 to fund the president's border wall even though he has promised Mexico would pay for it.

Just hours before President Donald Trump is set to shut down the government if he does not get border wall funding, New York Post columnist Michael Goodwin told Fox News that it was time for the president's supporters to chip in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2018, 02:06:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 18, 2018, 06:59:24 PM
Are the boys chipping in?

QuoteA Fox & Friends segment on Monday suggested that each Trump voter should give $80 to fund the president's border wall even though he has promised Mexico would pay for it.

Just hours before President Donald Trump is set to shut down the government if he does not get border wall funding, New York Post columnist Michael Goodwin told Fox News that it was time for the president's supporters to chip in.

They should cancel closing the Trump Foundation and route it through there. I'm sure ALL of it would make its way safely to the "Build the Wall" fund. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 19, 2018, 09:55:25 PM
I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2018, 10:19:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 19, 2018, 09:55:25 PM
I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall.

Apparently the relabeled NAFTA agreement is going to cover the costs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 19, 2018, 10:32:25 PM
While the absurdity of Trump's passion for building something that a longer ladder will overcome is worthy of push back, the real story here is about how hard Trump is working to help Putin destabilize NATO. Ordering US forces today to pull out of Syria will force more people to flee Assad's Russia backed assault. This will push more refugees to Europe. It will exacerbate right wing xenophobia and fuel their fervor for tearing Europe apart.
Putin is working this brilliantly with the help of Trump, Farage et all; he has taken the US out of the game and destabilized Europe.
Unless someone organizes a unified push back on Putin we are in for a very unstable world in the coming years.
The GOP have a lot to answer for if they continue to give Trump cover for pursuing Putin's agenda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 20, 2018, 11:59:35 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du5a18NWkAIdnxg?format=jpg&name=small)

So much winning!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 21, 2018, 01:30:07 PM
This is what happens to decent folk when the law isn't followed. You have illegals not detained, breaking the law and murdering citzens.

https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/ice-man-arrested-in-deadly-tulare-county-california-rampage-was-deported-twice-before

The democrats on here will side with the illegal no doubt or find some excuse for him. I also note this is one of those "dreamers". What additions they are to the USA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2018, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 21, 2018, 01:30:07 PM
This is what happens to decent folk when the law isn't followed. You have illegals not detained, breaking the law and murdering citzens.

https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/ice-man-arrested-in-deadly-tulare-county-california-rampage-was-deported-twice-before

The democrats on here will side with the illegal no doubt or find some excuse for him. I also note this is one of those "dreamers". What additions they are to the USA.

1.   This guy was NOT a "dreamer". Violent crimes such as armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon, followed by prison and deportation automatically disqualify a person. DACA is aimed at law abiding illegals who entered through no fault of their own, grew up in the US and want to become normal, productive residents. Learn what the f**k you're talking about before spouting nonsense.

2.   I'm a Democrat. I don't "side" with him nor do I offer any excuses. He is deservedly headed to prison for a very long time, possibly for life. Take your strawmen arguments elsewhere.

3.   I am for sanctuary city policies, within reason, as I've outlined in detail on this thread before. Refusing to accommodate cooperation with federal authorities for a convicted, violent felon who has been deported twice before is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 21, 2018, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2018, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 21, 2018, 01:30:07 PM
This is what happens to decent folk when the law isn't followed. You have illegals not detained, breaking the law and murdering citzens.

https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/ice-man-arrested-in-deadly-tulare-county-california-rampage-was-deported-twice-before

The democrats on here will side with the illegal no doubt or find some excuse for him. I also note this is one of those "dreamers". What additions they are to the USA.

1.   This guy was NOT a "dreamer". Violent crimes such as armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon, followed by prison and deportation automatically disqualify a person. DACA is aimed at law abiding illegals who entered through no fault of their own, grew up in the US and want to become normal, productive residents. Learn what the f**k you're talking about before spouting nonsense.

2.   I'm a Democrat. I don't "side" with him nor do I offer any excuses. He is deservedly headed to prison for a very long time, possibly for life. Take your strawmen arguments elsewhere.

3.   I am for sanctuary city policies, within reason, as I've outlined in detail on this thread before. Refusing to accommodate cooperation with federal authorities for a convicted, violent felon who has been deported twice before is ridiculous.

You support sanctuary cities. Says it all about you and your standards. People like yourself only ever seem to wise up once a tragedy directly impacts you.

I knew some democrats would go into bat for this sc**bag. Sickening hypocrisy from Democrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 21, 2018, 03:29:41 PM
It looks like this democrat is looking for an Oscar. Oh the tears!
Watch him ham it up with the story of Jesus and the wall. Then when he's finished his mental hissyfit he won't ever listen to the other side.

Typical lying democrat.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/12/20/luis-gutierrez-kirstjen-nielsen-border-separations-liar-hearing-vpx.cnn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2018, 03:39:41 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 21, 2018, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2018, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 21, 2018, 01:30:07 PM
This is what happens to decent folk when the law isn't followed. You have illegals not detained, breaking the law and murdering citzens.

https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/ice-man-arrested-in-deadly-tulare-county-california-rampage-was-deported-twice-before

The democrats on here will side with the illegal no doubt or find some excuse for him. I also note this is one of those "dreamers". What additions they are to the USA.

1.   This guy was NOT a "dreamer". Violent crimes such as armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon, followed by prison and deportation automatically disqualify a person. DACA is aimed at law abiding illegals who entered through no fault of their own, grew up in the US and want to become normal, productive residents. Learn what the f**k you're talking about before spouting nonsense.

2.   I'm a Democrat. I don't "side" with him nor do I offer any excuses. He is deservedly headed to prison for a very long time, possibly for life. Take your strawmen arguments elsewhere.

3.   I am for sanctuary city policies, within reason, as I've outlined in detail on this thread before. Refusing to accommodate cooperation with federal authorities for a convicted, violent felon who has been deported twice before is ridiculous.

You support sanctuary cities. Says it all about you and your standards. People like yourself only ever seem to wise up once a tragedy directly impacts you.

I knew some democrats would go into bat for this sc**bag. Sickening hypocrisy from Democrats.

Clearly you have reading and other comprehension problems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 21, 2018, 04:53:12 PM
Tut tut

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1076146017677074432

Sahil Kapur
‏
Verified account

@sahilkapur

PRESIDENT TRUMP, 12/11/2018: "I am proud to shut down the government for border security... I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down."

PRESIDENT TRUMP, 12/21/2018: "The Democrats now own the shutdown!"

8:02 AM - 21 Dec 2018
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2018, 05:13:42 PM
Motion to ban the troll, Dolph1, who is clearly the reincarnation of Foxkkkomander.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 21, 2018, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2018, 05:13:42 PM
Motion to ban the troll, Dolph1, who is clearly the reincarnation of Foxkkkomander.

Intolerance of opposing views. What a drama queen!
It just shows you up for what you're really about. Banning free speech. Bullying posters by threatening them.
The moderators need to keep a check on that sort of behavior.

You're a disgrace Eamonnca1.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2018, 05:51:06 PM
I see RBG diagnosed with Cancer

Time for her to pack it in
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 21, 2018, 06:01:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2018, 05:51:06 PM
I see RBG diagnosed with Cancer

Time for her to pack it in

Time to make it 6-3. Oh happy days.

Stick Roe vs Wade in the garbage where it belongs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 21, 2018, 06:05:45 PM
On what legal basis? It is a court after all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2018, 06:06:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2018, 05:13:42 PM
Motion to ban the troll, Dolph1, who is clearly the reincarnation of Foxkkkomander.

Either him or No Wides.

I'm leaning towards Foxy too.

Regardless, about the same standard of discourse as that pair.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 21, 2018, 06:07:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2018, 05:13:42 PM
Motion to ban the troll, Dolph1, who is clearly the reincarnation of Foxkkkomander.

foxcommander's last post was on January 13, 2018
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=12103

dolph signed up February 21, 2018
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14230

However foxcommander was last active December 13, 2018
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=12103
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 21, 2018, 06:07:44 PM
Strange this lad popped up the same time fox was banned

A telling first post under this name

QuoteAshamed to call myself irish today after seeing the expected result

May god have mercy on those who voted yes. Let the era of no personal responsibility commence. Look at the utopia Britain has become.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 22, 2018, 04:38:22 AM
Interesting week in US politics, first time I have seen the main stream Republicans turn against Trumpski.

Most worried are those that are going to be on the slate with him in 2020.

Pence may well be the president going for reelection in 2020

Follow the money
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 22, 2018, 07:11:50 AM
When was the last time 3 judges were appointed in one term?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 22, 2018, 09:48:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 22, 2018, 07:11:50 AM
When was the last time 3 judges were appointed in one term?

She's not gone yet!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 24, 2018, 06:42:07 AM
The late John McCain questioning the new SEC of State for Defense

https://mobile.twitter.com/RedTRaccoon/status/1076889826161553408

Remember what Trump was elected on

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8


Paul Krugman

@paulkrugman


Cruelty is Trump's brand. He's even more vicious toward the needy than Republicans in Congress, which is amazing 1/
And many of the victims will be people who supported him, because betrayal is also standard operating procedure for Individual-1 2/
Of course, it's also partly about those voters, who consistently vote to make their own lives worse 3/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on December 24, 2018, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 22, 2018, 07:11:50 AM
When was the last time 3 judges were appointed in one term?

Ronald Reagan I think.

It will be some crack when/if ginsberg expires before the end next year. Wouldn't put it past the democrats to pull a Weekend at Bernies (Sanders?) and pretend shes still alive. definitely not the shadiest thing they've ever done.
They'll just hire a stunt double and pretend she's lost her voice.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on December 24, 2018, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 24, 2018, 06:42:07 AM
The late John McCain questioning the new SEC of State for Defense

https://mobile.twitter.com/RedTRaccoon/status/1076889826161553408

Remember what Trump was elected on

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8


Paul Krugman

@paulkrugman


Cruelty is Trump's brand. He's even more vicious toward the needy than Republicans in Congress, which is amazing 1/
And many of the victims will be people who supported him, because betrayal is also standard operating procedure for Individual-1 2/
Of course, it's also partly about those voters, who consistently vote to make their own lives worse 3/

This lad is balls deep into the US Arms manufacturing elite and no one bats an eyelid.

God bless America.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 25, 2018, 12:05:17 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on December 24, 2018, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 22, 2018, 07:11:50 AM
When was the last time 3 judges were appointed in one term?

Ronald Reagan I think.

It will be some crack when/if ginsberg expires before the end next year. Wouldn't put it past the democrats to pull a Weekend at Bernies (Sanders?) and pretend shes still alive. definitely not the shadiest thing they've ever done.
They'll just hire a stunt double and pretend she's lost her voice.

You are a vituperous, graceless WUM. Hope you can muster up enough goodwill to enjoy the holidays. Happy Christmas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on December 25, 2018, 12:00:28 PM
Never mind the rest of his crimes, the **** should be impeached for this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46678124?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_source=facebook&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_mchannel=social
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 25, 2018, 06:25:35 PM
Paging Whitey


Myles Miller
@MylesMill
·
5m
EL PASO, Texas (AP) - U.S. immigration authorities say an 8-year-old boy from Guatemala has died in government custody.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 25, 2018, 08:21:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 25, 2018, 06:25:35 PM
Paging Whitey


Myles Miller
@MylesMill
·
5m
EL PASO, Texas (AP) - U.S. immigration authorities say an 8-year-old boy from Guatemala has died in government custody.

What did he die from?  Did his parents drag him through the dessert for days on end without food or water? 

As I said when Trump got elected, the continuous faux outrage just leads people to tune out!

BTW-are the customs agents sadists or nazis or both this time out?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on December 26, 2018, 01:34:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 25, 2018, 08:21:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 25, 2018, 06:25:35 PM
Paging Whitey


Myles Miller
@MylesMill
·
5m
EL PASO, Texas (AP) - U.S. immigration authorities say an 8-year-old boy from Guatemala has died in government custody.

What did he die from?  Did his parents drag him through the dessert for days on end without food or water? 

As I said when Trump got elected, the continuous faux outrage just leads people to tune out!

BTW-are the customs agents sadists or nazis or both this time out?

Trifle or custard?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2019, 01:04:30 PM
LOL

Former head honcho at NY Times has some interesting insight

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/2/jill-abramson-ex-new-york-times-editor-rips-papers/

Don't say I didn't tell you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 01:34:44 PM
If you want LOL check out Elizabeth Warren drinking a beer on live chat while announcing plans to run in 2020.

Some wisecrack stated that the beer is 1/1024th alcohol. Just as weak as her presidential ambition.

"Hold on a second, I'm gonna get me a beer" she said. What a fcking cringefest. Democrats are down with the people.


Trump 2020.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:39:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2019, 01:04:30 PM
LOL

Former head honcho at NY Times has some interesting insight

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/2/jill-abramson-ex-new-york-times-editor-rips-papers/

Don't say I didn't tell you

Does this mean we can look forward to actual concrete examples of biased stories from you for a change?

The only thing that seems to exercise you about US politics is the supposed unfair deal Trump, the GOP and conservatives in general receive from the press, in your perception. You certainly don't spend much time arguing for their actual conduct or policies.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...

It's cute how you think that a few grands worth of Russian facebook ads swung an election. Even a little naïve.

I guess if you're clutching at straws for something to lay blame and justify it in your own head. I find it hillaryous.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:49:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 01:34:44 PM
If you want LOL check out Elizabeth Warren drinking a beer on live chat while announcing plans to run in 2020.

Some wisecrack stated that the beer is 1/1024th alcohol. Just as weak as her presidential ambition.

"Hold on a second, I'm gonna get me a beer" she said. What a fcking cringefest. Democrats are down with the people.


Trump 2020.

Yes, the Trump 2020 platform...

Corporations... not people!
Clean air and water, public health concerns... cancer, asthma, heavy metal poisoning, bioaccumulation of toxins... they're all liberal lies.
Standing up against dictatorial thugs around the world... f**k that and f**k US allies!
Climate change... more liberal lies, except promoted by China.
Wild lands and species... do we really need them?
Women... grab 'em by the pussy!
White christians... watch out, the muslim, Latino, transgender hordes are massing as we speak and are coming for you!
The wall... four years of unAmerican, communist, Democratic control of congress have stalled us, but Mexico WILL PAY FOR IT!
The GOP... you will kneel before Donald!


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...

It's cute how you think that a few grands worth of Russian facebook ads swung an election. Even a little naïve.

I guess if you're clutching at straws for something to lay blame and justify it in your own head. I find it hillaryous.

I don't see anything anywhere in my post commenting on the roll of Russian trolls in the election.

Just pointing out the obvious problem with your hyping up of the supposed actions of Facebook on the use of the phrase "illegal immigrants".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 07:03:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...

It's cute how you think that a few grands worth of Russian facebook ads swung an election. Even a little naïve.

I guess if you're clutching at straws for something to lay blame and justify it in your own head. I find it hillaryous.

I don't see anything anywhere in my post commenting on the roll of Russian trolls in the election.

Just pointing out the obvious problem with your hyping up of the supposed actions of Facebook on the use of the phrase "illegal immigrants".

From ABC - lefty media source - You know it has to be pretty bad when they're actually admitting to it.

The speech police are out and attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2019, 07:31:26 PM
When we take back the White House and Senate in 2020 we'll need to expand the Supreme Court and put two more liberal justices on there to counteract the two illegitimate ones put there by Trump, and when RBG retires we need to get someone nice and young in there to replace her. Then change the rules to cap the size of the bench, followed by term limits for any subsequent appointees. Repukelicans wouldn't bat an eyelid about doing the same. It's time Dems got the sword out and fought back against this tyrannical rule of the minority.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2019, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 07:03:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...

It's cute how you think that a few grands worth of Russian facebook ads swung an election. Even a little naïve.

I guess if you're clutching at straws for something to lay blame and justify it in your own head. I find it hillaryous.

I don't see anything anywhere in my post commenting on the roll of Russian trolls in the election.

Just pointing out the obvious problem with your hyping up of the supposed actions of Facebook on the use of the phrase "illegal immigrants".

From ABC - lefty media source - You know it has to be pretty bad when they're actually admitting to it.

The speech police are out and attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.

Go ahead and provide evidence that this local ABC station is a "lefty media source".

We have WABC radio in NYC. You know what they carry? Wall-to-wall right wing talk radio.

Sinclair media own a large share of local tv stations all over the US, whatever national badge they happen to be using for their main programming and national news telecasts.

So pardon me for my skepticism of your claim.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 03, 2019, 08:51:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:39:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2019, 01:04:30 PM
LOL

Former head honcho at NY Times has some interesting insight

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/2/jill-abramson-ex-new-york-times-editor-rips-papers/

Don't say I didn't tell you

Does this mean we can look forward to actual concrete examples of biased stories from you for a change?

The only thing that seems to exercise you about US politics is the supposed unfair deal Trump, the GOP and conservatives in general receive from the press, in your perception. You certainly don't spend much time arguing for their actual conduct or policies.

Eh....did you bother reading the link?

I'm a right wing nut job when I point out the bias against the conservatives and here you have the former editor completely agreeing with me

Any decent middle of the road Republicans such as Romney got a$$ fvcked by the NYT. Complete character assassination

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 03, 2019, 08:55:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 07:03:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...

It's cute how you think that a few grands worth of Russian facebook ads swung an election. Even a little naïve.

I guess if you're clutching at straws for something to lay blame and justify it in your own head. I find it hillaryous.

I don't see anything anywhere in my post commenting on the roll of Russian trolls in the election.

Just pointing out the obvious problem with your hyping up of the supposed actions of Facebook on the use of the phrase "illegal immigrants".

From ABC - lefty media source - You know it has to be pretty bad when they're actually admitting to it.

The speech police are out and attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.

Go ahead and provide evidence that this local ABC station is a "lefty media source".

We have WABC radio in NYC. You know what they carry? Wall-to-wall right wing talk radio.

Sinclair media own a large share of local tv stations all over the US, whatever national badge they happen to be using for their main programming and national news telecasts.

So pardon me for my skepticism of your claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDNL-TV

KDNL-TV, virtual channel 30 (UHF digital channel 31), is an ABC-affiliated television station licensed to St. Louis, Missouri, United States. The station is owned by the Sinclair Broadcast Group.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 09:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 07:03:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...

It's cute how you think that a few grands worth of Russian facebook ads swung an election. Even a little naïve.

I guess if you're clutching at straws for something to lay blame and justify it in your own head. I find it hillaryous.

I don't see anything anywhere in my post commenting on the roll of Russian trolls in the election.

Just pointing out the obvious problem with your hyping up of the supposed actions of Facebook on the use of the phrase "illegal immigrants".

From ABC - lefty media source - You know it has to be pretty bad when they're actually admitting to it.

The speech police are out and attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.

Go ahead and provide evidence that this local ABC station is a "lefty media source".

We have WABC radio in NYC. You know what they carry? Wall-to-wall right wing talk radio.

Sinclair media own a large share of local tv stations all over the US, whatever national badge they happen to be using for their main programming and national news telecasts.

So pardon me for my skepticism of your claim.

We've already seen a cleansing of speech on MSM and advocation of banning so called hate speech.
Getting back to what I was saying j70. What's your actual take on the speech police attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 03, 2019, 09:44:16 PM
Read Dolph's posts in the voice of the Emperor from Star Wars. It fits in so well.

Yup, it's Foxkkk all right.

Turf him out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 01:31:14 AM
Quote from: dec on January 03, 2019, 08:55:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 07:03:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...

It's cute how you think that a few grands worth of Russian facebook ads swung an election. Even a little naïve.

I guess if you're clutching at straws for something to lay blame and justify it in your own head. I find it hillaryous.

I don't see anything anywhere in my post commenting on the roll of Russian trolls in the election.

Just pointing out the obvious problem with your hyping up of the supposed actions of Facebook on the use of the phrase "illegal immigrants".

From ABC - lefty media source - You know it has to be pretty bad when they're actually admitting to it.

The speech police are out and attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.

Go ahead and provide evidence that this local ABC station is a "lefty media source".

We have WABC radio in NYC. You know what they carry? Wall-to-wall right wing talk radio.

Sinclair media own a large share of local tv stations all over the US, whatever national badge they happen to be using for their main programming and national news telecasts.

So pardon me for my skepticism of your claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDNL-TV

KDNL-TV, virtual channel 30 (UHF digital channel 31), is an ABC-affiliated television station licensed to St. Louis, Missouri, United States. The station is owned by the Sinclair Broadcast Group.

Dolph1/Foxcommander in "shooting his mouth off when he doesn't know wtf he's talking about" shocker.

Not hard to see why he admires Trump. Kindred spirits in the pursuit of ignorance and distraction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 02:00:26 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 09:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 07:03:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...

It's cute how you think that a few grands worth of Russian facebook ads swung an election. Even a little naïve.

I guess if you're clutching at straws for something to lay blame and justify it in your own head. I find it hillaryous.

I don't see anything anywhere in my post commenting on the roll of Russian trolls in the election.

Just pointing out the obvious problem with your hyping up of the supposed actions of Facebook on the use of the phrase "illegal immigrants".

From ABC - lefty media source - You know it has to be pretty bad when they're actually admitting to it.

The speech police are out and attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.

Go ahead and provide evidence that this local ABC station is a "lefty media source".

We have WABC radio in NYC. You know what they carry? Wall-to-wall right wing talk radio.

Sinclair media own a large share of local tv stations all over the US, whatever national badge they happen to be using for their main programming and national news telecasts.

So pardon me for my skepticism of your claim.

We've already seen a cleansing of speech on MSM and advocation of banning so called hate speech.
Getting back to what I was saying j70. What's your actual take on the speech police attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.

I remember Foxcommander getting all upset that only black people were allowed to get away with using the n-word. Apparently he felt slighted and cheated by that.

But, to answer your specific question, it depends on the circumstances and the words/phrases in question. In general, I'm all for letting Neanderthals and bigots shoot their mouths off. Makes it much easier to identify them and expose their brain-dead ideas to logic and ridicule. A bit like dealing with the half-baked horse shit you yourself come out with here. However, I don't have a problem with proscribing speech which advocates and incites violence towards people based on their membership of some group, whether race or religion or sexual orientation or whatever.

On the case in question, IF its true, I think whatever Facebook person or people or policy would outlaw the use of the label "illegal immigrant" needs to be rethought. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with that factual description (but I'm only talking about those words, not the photo meme).

However, the meme in question was idiotic and childish. It equated "legal immigration" with protector and 'illegal immigrant" with murderer, as if the two were synonymous. The two labels could easily be reversed using some other combination of people (when it would be equally idiotic). We could find one of those right wing morons who murdered Jews or Muslims and have "white male" and "murderer" on his picture, basically claiming that white males in general are well disposed towards mass murder of innocent victims. Whether such a meme should be banned, I'm not sure. Once again, it would take a schoolkid level of argument to refute it, although its also about the level of sophistication that you hear out of Trump in terms of rhetoric, so maybe I'm being too complacent in terms of combating it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 11:07:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 02:00:26 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 09:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 07:03:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 03, 2019, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Facebook are banning people on their platform who call cop killer Gustavo Arriaga an "illegal immigrant". This label in their minds is hate speech.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/is-facebook-censoring-those-who-use-terms-illegal-immigrant-or-illegal-alien-in-posts

Indeed. Facebook is a leader in the fight against Russian disinformation campaigns and right wing racist bullshit.

Oh, wait...

It's cute how you think that a few grands worth of Russian facebook ads swung an election. Even a little naïve.

I guess if you're clutching at straws for something to lay blame and justify it in your own head. I find it hillaryous.

I don't see anything anywhere in my post commenting on the roll of Russian trolls in the election.

Just pointing out the obvious problem with your hyping up of the supposed actions of Facebook on the use of the phrase "illegal immigrants".

From ABC - lefty media source - You know it has to be pretty bad when they're actually admitting to it.

The speech police are out and attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.

Go ahead and provide evidence that this local ABC station is a "lefty media source".

We have WABC radio in NYC. You know what they carry? Wall-to-wall right wing talk radio.

Sinclair media own a large share of local tv stations all over the US, whatever national badge they happen to be using for their main programming and national news telecasts.

So pardon me for my skepticism of your claim.

We've already seen a cleansing of speech on MSM and advocation of banning so called hate speech.
Getting back to what I was saying j70. What's your actual take on the speech police attempting to stop people from using certain language and phrases. I'd love you to say that isn't the case J70. Just so we have that on record.

I remember Foxcommander getting all upset that only black people were allowed to get away with using the n-word. Apparently he felt slighted and cheated by that.

But, to answer your specific question, it depends on the circumstances and the words/phrases in question. In general, I'm all for letting Neanderthals and bigots shoot their mouths off. Makes it much easier to identify them and expose their brain-dead ideas to logic and ridicule. A bit like dealing with the half-baked horse shit you yourself come out with here. However, I don't have a problem with proscribing speech which advocates and incites violence towards people based on their membership of some group, whether race or religion or sexual orientation or whatever.

On the case in question, IF its true, I think whatever Facebook person or people or policy would outlaw the use of the label "illegal immigrant" needs to be rethought. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with that factual description (but I'm only talking about those words, not the photo meme).

However, the meme in question was idiotic and childish. It equated "legal immigration" with protector and 'illegal immigrant" with murderer, as if the two were synonymous. The two labels could easily be reversed using some other combination of people (when it would be equally idiotic). We could find one of those right wing morons who murdered Jews or Muslims and have "white male" and "murderer" on his picture, basically claiming that white males in general are well disposed towards mass murder of innocent victims. Whether such a meme should be banned, I'm not sure. Once again, it would take a schoolkid level of argument to refute it, although its also about the level of sophistication that you hear out of Trump in terms of rhetoric, so maybe I'm being too complacent in terms of combating it.

You could have just said you don't want to answer instead of giving all that waffle.

Don't worry about memes.

Corporal Ronil Singh = legal immigrant
Gustavo Arriga = illegal immigrant

fact.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
No, I answered all right.

Not my problem if you've got intellectual issues, whether genuine or dishonest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
No, I answered all right.

Not my problem if you've got intellectual issues, whether genuine or dishonest.

Given your interpretation of politics I'm not surprised that you don't want to answer a straightforward question. It's a bit like your bathroom policies ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
No, I answered all right.

Not my problem if you've got intellectual issues, whether genuine or dishonest.

Given your interpretation of politics I'm not surprised that you don't want to answer a straightforward question. It's a bit like your bathroom policies ;)

You see, this is why the likes of Eamonn are trying to get you banned again. You've no interest in honest discourse. You're just a troll.

Or maybe just incredibly thick, but the former is more likely IMO.

But once again, for the idiots in the room, banning the words themselves... wrong and stupid.
The overall meme... I'm not sure. It's childish and stupid and easily argued against, but a lot of people seem to like, and find convincing, that level of argument, including Trump and, evidently, yourself.

So that's twice I've explained it. Perhaps I'm the bigger idiot for engaging you, for now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 12:14:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
No, I answered all right.

Not my problem if you've got intellectual issues, whether genuine or dishonest.

Given your interpretation of politics I'm not surprised that you don't want to answer a straightforward question. It's a bit like your bathroom policies ;)

You see, this is why the likes of Eamonn are trying to get you banned again. You've no interest in honest discourse. You're just a troll.

Or maybe just incredibly thick, but the former is more likely IMO.

But once again, for the idiots in the room, banning the words themselves... wrong and stupid.
The overall meme... I'm not sure. It's childish and stupid and easily argued against, but a lot of people seem to like, and find convincing, that level of argument, including Trump and, evidently, yourself.

So that's twice I've explained it. Perhaps I'm the bigger idiot for engaging you, for now.

Thank you for clarifying. I couldn't agree more.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2019, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
No, I answered all right.

Not my problem if you've got intellectual issues, whether genuine or dishonest.

Given your interpretation of politics I'm not surprised that you don't want to answer a straightforward question. It's a bit like your bathroom policies ;)

You see, this is why the likes of Eamonn are trying to get you banned again. You've no interest in honest discourse. You're just a troll.

Or maybe just incredibly thick, but the former is more likely IMO.

But once again, for the idiots in the room, banning the words themselves... wrong and stupid.
The overall meme... I'm not sure. It's childish and stupid and easily argued against, but a lot of people seem to like, and find convincing, that level of argument, including Trump and, evidently, yourself.

So that's twice I've explained it. Perhaps I'm the bigger idiot for engaging you, for now.

So how come we never hear about childish and stupid posts about Trump getting banned?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 04, 2019, 02:04:40 PM
Have you reported them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 02:56:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 03, 2019, 01:34:44 PM
If you want LOL check out Elizabeth Warren drinking a beer on live chat while announcing plans to run in 2020.

Some wisecrack stated that the beer is 1/1024th alcohol. Just as weak as her presidential ambition.

"Hold on a second, I'm gonna get me a beer" she said. What a fcking cringefest. Democrats are down with the people.


Trump 2020.

Oh Donald!!

(https://cdn10.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/01/trump-tweet-warren-fb.jpg)

Funnily enough Warren stated last March she would not run for president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:10:04 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 04, 2019, 02:04:40 PM
Have you reported them?

I have better things to do than attempt to stifle freee speech
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

Point taken and you're right. Beware of the mall cops!!

Companies like facebook and google initially indicated they were a neutral platform but in recent years have shown their bias. It's a shame they've gone this way.
All you really want it an equal playing field and neutral platforms. Thank god for the Gaaboard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 04:08:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

Point taken and you're right. Beware of the mall cops!!

Companies like facebook and google initially indicated they were a neutral platform but in recent years have shown their bias. It's a shame they've gone this way.
All you really want it an equal playing field and neutral platforms. Thank god for the Gaaboard.

Or a place where you are not constantly confronted with vile bigotry and racism. Tomatoes or tomatoes, I suppose.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 05:21:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
No, I answered all right.

Not my problem if you've got intellectual issues, whether genuine or dishonest.
[/quote

Given your interpretation of politics I'm not surprised that you don't want to answer a straightforward question. It's a bit like your bathroom policies ;)

You see, this is why the likes of Eamonn are trying to get you banned again. You've no interest in honest discourse. You're just a troll.

Or maybe just incredibly thick, but the former is more likely  ;D

But once again, for the idiots in the room, banning the words themselves... wrong and stupid.
The overall meme... I'm not sure. It's childish and stupid and easily argued against, but a lot of people seem to like, and find convincing, that level of argument, including Trump and, evidently, yourself.

So that's twice I've explained it. Perhaps I'm the bigger idiot for engaging you, for now.

So how come we never hear about childish and stupid posts about Trump getting banned?

Whitey... always trying to cast conservatives and the GOP as victims of a horrible, biased society and press...

I don't know - there's tonnes of similar memes to Trump about Obama and other Democrats. Were THEY banned?

Perhaps Facebook is finally trying to clean up their act. Perhaps this was done by one overzealous moderator. We don't even know how true this damn story is.

I don't have a f**king clue.

I'm not the one always making grand, definitive, pronouncements about supposed bias in the press (assuming you're lumping FB in with them). That would be YOU.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

I presume there's evidence of the one-sided enforcement?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2019, 05:34:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 05:21:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
No, I answered all right.

Not my problem if you've got intellectual issues, whether genuine or dishonest.
[/quote

Given your interpretation of politics I'm not surprised that you don't want to answer a straightforward question. It's a bit like your bathroom policies ;)

You see, this is why the likes of Eamonn are trying to get you banned again. You've no interest in honest discourse. You're just a troll.

Or maybe just incredibly thick, but the former is more likely  ;D

But once again, for the idiots in the room, banning the words themselves... wrong and stupid.
The overall meme... I'm not sure. It's childish and stupid and easily argued against, but a lot of people seem to like, and find convincing, that level of argument, including Trump and, evidently, yourself.

So that's twice I've explained it. Perhaps I'm the bigger idiot for engaging you, for now.

So how come we never hear about childish and stupid posts about Trump getting banned?

Whitey... always trying to cast conservatives and the GOP as victims of a horrible, biased society and press...

I don't know - there's tonnes of similar memes to Trump about Obama and other Democrats. Were THEY banned?

Perhaps Facebook is finally trying to clean up their act. Perhaps this was done by one overzealous moderator. We don't even know how true this damn story is.

I don't have a f**king clue.

I'm not the one always making grand, definitive, pronouncements about supposed bias in the press (assuming you're lumping FB in with them). That would be YOU.

Yes Me (and the editor of The NY Times )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2019, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

I presume there's evidence of the one-sided enforcement?

If you count the opinions of  100 Facebook employees, I would say yes

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/technology/inside-facebook-employees-political-bias.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 06:14:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

I presume there's evidence of the one-sided enforcement?

If you count the opinions of  100 Facebook employees, I would say yes

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/technology/inside-facebook-employees-political-bias.html

100 employees out of how many?

Even the info outlined in the article is all over the place. Alex Jones gets (deservedly) banned, but "Others have said Facebook, out of fear of being seen as biased, has let too many right-wing groups flourish on the site."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 05:34:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 05:21:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
No, I answered all right.

Not my problem if you've got intellectual issues, whether genuine or dishonest.
[/quote

Given your interpretation of politics I'm not surprised that you don't want to answer a straightforward question. It's a bit like your bathroom policies ;)

You see, this is why the likes of Eamonn are trying to get you banned again. You've no interest in honest discourse. You're just a troll.

Or maybe just incredibly thick, but the former is more likely  ;D

But once again, for the idiots in the room, banning the words themselves... wrong and stupid.
The overall meme... I'm not sure. It's childish and stupid and easily argued against, but a lot of people seem to like, and find convincing, that level of argument, including Trump and, evidently, yourself.

So that's twice I've explained it. Perhaps I'm the bigger idiot for engaging you, for now.

So how come we never hear about childish and stupid posts about Trump getting banned?

Whitey... always trying to cast conservatives and the GOP as victims of a horrible, biased society and press...

I don't know - there's tonnes of similar memes to Trump about Obama and other Democrats. Were THEY banned?

Perhaps Facebook is finally trying to clean up their act. Perhaps this was done by one overzealous moderator. We don't even know how true this damn story is.

I don't have a f**king clue.

I'm not the one always making grand, definitive, pronouncements about supposed bias in the press (assuming you're lumping FB in with them). That would be YOU.

Yes Me (and the editor of The NY Times )

A bit of a shame that she's hit back at the Fox story.

"His article is an attempt to Foxify my book, which is full of praise for The Times and The Washington Post and their coverage of Trump,"

https://www.apnews.com/996be609a01c481798eea78a94a1c98d (https://www.apnews.com/996be609a01c481798eea78a94a1c98d)

But I guess that's just even more evidence of liberal bias against conservatives to you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 06:24:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

I presume there's evidence of the one-sided enforcement?

If you count the opinions of  100 Facebook employees, I would say yes

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/technology/inside-facebook-employees-political-bias.html

Watch how thrilled Google execs were in 2016 at the election result. No bias there :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEj98mdBOBw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2019, 06:35:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 05:34:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 05:21:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
No, I answered all right.

Not my problem if you've got intellectual issues, whether genuine or dishonest.
[/quote

Given your interpretation of politics I'm not surprised that you don't want to answer a straightforward question. It's a bit like your bathroom policies ;)

You see, this is why the likes of Eamonn are trying to get you banned again. You've no interest in honest discourse. You're just a troll.

Or maybe just incredibly thick, but the former is more likely  ;D

But once again, for the idiots in the room, banning the words themselves... wrong and stupid.
The overall meme... I'm not sure. It's childish and stupid and easily argued against, but a lot of people seem to like, and find convincing, that level of argument, including Trump and, evidently, yourself.

So that's twice I've explained it. Perhaps I'm the bigger idiot for engaging you, for now.

So how come we never hear about childish and stupid posts about Trump getting banned?

Whitey... always trying to cast conservatives and the GOP as victims of a horrible, biased society and press...

I don't know - there's tonnes of similar memes to Trump about Obama and other Democrats. Were THEY banned?

Perhaps Facebook is finally trying to clean up their act. Perhaps this was done by one overzealous moderator. We don't even know how true this damn story is.

I don't have a f**king clue.

I'm not the one always making grand, definitive, pronouncements about supposed bias in the press (assuming you're lumping FB in with them). That would be YOU.

Yes Me (and the editor of The NY Times )

A bit of a shame that she's hit back at the Fox story.

"His article is an attempt to Foxify my book, which is full of praise for The Times and The Washington Post and their coverage of Trump,"

https://www.apnews.com/996be609a01c481798eea78a94a1c98d (https://www.apnews.com/996be609a01c481798eea78a94a1c98d)

But I guess that's just even more evidence of liberal bias against conservatives to you.

LOL

Kinda like the time the Democrats had to walk back Bill Clinton's comments on Obamacare

I will be interested though to see what the full context is

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 06:57:05 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 06:24:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

I presume there's evidence of the one-sided enforcement?

If you count the opinions of  100 Facebook employees, I would say yes

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/technology/inside-facebook-employees-political-bias.html

Watch how thrilled Google execs were in 2016 at the election result. No bias there :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEj98mdBOBw

One has to wonder how you poor, persecuted souls find your way around the internet when everything is biased against you and nothing you are looking for will show up on any of the search engines?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 08:42:49 PM
NIce lady Michigan elected to Congress fits in nicely with Antifa and the rest of the scum that the democrats are attracting these days .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 04, 2019, 09:01:12 PM
Gmac

Impeach the motherf**ker offends you?

And so do anti fascists?

Seriously?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Surely it's just "locker room talk"??

Poor Gmac.

Now the GOP will have no choice but to get down in the dirt and fight fire with fire by allying themselves to foul-mouthed, lying, corrupt, misogynistic, racist, xenophobes.

Oh wait...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Surely it's just "locker room talk"??

Poor Gmac.

Now the GOP will have no choice but to get down in the dirt and fight fire with fire by allying themselves to foul-mouthed, lying, corrupt, misogynistic, racist, xenophobes.

Oh wait...

That sounds like Keith Ellison. I think he's the Democrat vice chairman chairperson.

Still waiting for anyone in his party to condemn his actions or the #metoo movement to call him to account.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:29:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

It's quite amusing to see the right wing so threatened by a young, inexperienced, freshman Congresswoman from the Bronx/Queens who has just about zero influence with the Democratic leadership at this point.

Creep shot photos of her from behind, dancing videos, trawling her high school yearbook and making a big deal out of her nickname of "Sandy" back then...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 09:31:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

Never forget her brilliance when it comes to finance

"Unemployment Is Low Because Everyone Has Two Jobs"

Yep - that's who democrats see as a leading light. Would be hillaryous if she ran in 2020.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2019, 09:33:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:29:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

It's quite amusing to see the right wing so threatened by a young, inexperienced, freshman Congresswoman from the Bronx/Queens who has just about zero influence with the Democratic leadership at this point.

Creep shot photos of her from behind, dancing videos, trawling her high school yearbook and making a big deal out of her nickname of "Sandy" back then...

She's a Democratic version of Sarah Palin

If AOC wasn't smoking hot, do you think anyone would be listening to one word she's saying?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Surely it's just "locker room talk"??

Poor Gmac.

Now the GOP will have no choice but to get down in the dirt and fight fire with fire by allying themselves to foul-mouthed, lying, corrupt, misogynistic, racist, xenophobes.

Oh wait...

That sounds like Keith Ellison. I think he's the Democrat vice chairman chairperson.

Still waiting for anyone in his party to condemn his actions or the #metoo movement to call him to account.

Nah, I think the crown fits most well on the head of Trump and the GOP policies.

Not that the Dems are perfect by any means or beyond hypocrisy.

But at least they jettisoned the likes of Franken and Conyers.

Which is a lot more than you can say for the Grab 'em by the Pussy (that almost makes the acronym GOP!) party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:29:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

It's quite amusing to see the right wing so threatened by a young, inexperienced, freshman Congresswoman from the Bronx/Queens who has just about zero influence with the Democratic leadership at this point.

Creep shot photos of her from behind, dancing videos, trawling her high school yearbook and making a big deal out of her nickname of "Sandy" back then...
you brought her up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:44:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 09:33:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:29:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

It's quite amusing to see the right wing so threatened by a young, inexperienced, freshman Congresswoman from the Bronx/Queens who has just about zero influence with the Democratic leadership at this point.

Creep shot photos of her from behind, dancing videos, trawling her high school yearbook and making a big deal out of her nickname of "Sandy" back then...

She's a Democratic version of Sarah Palin

If AOC wasn't smoking hot, do you think anyone would be listening to one word she's saying?

She is newsworthy locally here in NYC for knocking off Crowley and, within Dem circles, as a good looking potential prospect, if she puts in the work.

I've no idea why the right wing as so fixated on her though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:45:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:39:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:29:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

It's quite amusing to see the right wing so threatened by a young, inexperienced, freshman Congresswoman from the Bronx/Queens who has just about zero influence with the Democratic leadership at this point.

Creep shot photos of her from behind, dancing videos, trawling her high school yearbook and making a big deal out of her nickname of "Sandy" back then...
you brought her up

I wasn't saying you specifically.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2019, 10:06:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:44:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 09:33:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:29:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

It's quite amusing to see the right wing so threatened by a young, inexperienced, freshman Congresswoman from the Bronx/Queens who has just about zero influence with the Democratic leadership at this point.

Creep shot photos of her from behind, dancing videos, trawling her high school yearbook and making a big deal out of her nickname of "Sandy" back then...

She's a Democratic version of Sarah Palin

If AOC wasn't smoking hot, do you think anyone would be listening to one word she's saying?

She is newsworthy locally here in NYC for knocking off Crowley and, within Dem circles, as a good looking potential prospect, if she puts in the work.

I've no idea why the right wing as so fixated on her though.

I think the left wing is equally as fixated on her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2019, 11:38:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 10:06:43 PM

I think the left wing is equally as fixated on her

The left wing is fixated on the right wing's hilariously over-the-top reaction to her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2019, 11:41:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 06:14:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 05:43:58 PM

If you count the opinions of  100 Facebook employees, I would say yes


100 employees out of how many?



30,275  as of June 30, 2018.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

70% rate on earnings OVER $10m sounds Ok to me... pretty sure the majority of Americans could cope with it as well!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 05, 2019, 05:21:56 PM
America's healthcare.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46768242 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46768242)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

70% rate on earnings OVER $10m sounds Ok to me... pretty sure the majority of Americans could cope with it as well!!
might fly in the eu not here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

70% rate on earnings OVER $10m sounds Ok to me... pretty sure the majority of Americans could cope with it as well!!
might fly in the eu not here

Apparently it affects like 20,000 people why shouldn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2019, 06:55:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

70% rate on earnings OVER $10m sounds Ok to me... pretty sure the majority of Americans could cope with it as well!!
might fly in the eu not here

Apparently it affects like 20,000 people why shouldn't it?

Pinko commie extremism... or something...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2019, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

70% rate on earnings OVER $10m sounds Ok to me... pretty sure the majority of Americans could cope with it as well!!
might fly in the eu not here

Apparently it affects like 20,000 people why shouldn't it?

Different mindset over here. It would be viewed as a penalty on successful people

Seeing as there is no floor over here (in terms of welfare) many people think there shouldn't be a cap on the other end either, and the top 1% already pay a disproportionate amount of the overall tax take
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2019, 07:49:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2019, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

70% rate on earnings OVER $10m sounds Ok to me... pretty sure the majority of Americans could cope with it as well!!
might fly in the eu not here

Apparently it affects like 20,000 people why shouldn't it?

Different mindset over here. It would be viewed as a penalty on successful people

Seeing as there is no floor over here (in terms of welfare) many people think there shouldn't be a cap on the other end either, and the top 1% already pay a disproportionate amount of the overall tax take

"No floor in terms of welfare"?

The "disproportionate" amount of tax is based on the disproportionate amount of earnings and wealth, much of which is taxed at a far lower rate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 05, 2019, 08:06:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2019, 07:27:16 PM

the top 1% already pay a disproportionate amount of the overall tax take

That is an opinion I would entirely disagree with.

Both sides need to take the blinkers and spin off for a minute. Income tax is not how you tax the wealthy.
A fair taxation system does not penalise salaries, it taxes capital gains and wealth accumulation without reinvestment.
A system which taxes high salaries makes money only for accountants, not for government.

The tax code in the US is now so complex that is is utterly beyond the comprehension of a single person.
A significant simplification, the removal of all of the special interest and lobbyist additions, the promotion of fair taxation which rewards labor and incentivizes education,  healthcare, charitable donations and growth.

My mortgage is pre tax, but education and health care are post tax?
Horrible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 09:26:24 PM
44% of Americans pay no tax
The average American pays about $11000 long way to 7 million
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 05, 2019, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 09:26:24 PM
44% of Americans pay no tax

Bullshit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2019, 12:31:40 AM
44% dont pay federal income tax
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 06, 2019, 12:35:46 AM
Quote from: dec on January 05, 2019, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 09:26:24 PM
44% of Americans pay no tax

Bullshit
why ? It includes all income levels
You presumed I was talking about poor people only I'm sure
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 06, 2019, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 09:26:24 PM
44% of Americans pay no tax
The average American pays about $11000 long way to 7 million

Not sure what you're saying here?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2019, 03:42:12 PM
80% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck


And POTUS is a malignant narcissist


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1156678616/unfit-malignant-narcissism-comes-to-wash-dc-very-b
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 06, 2019, 04:28:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 05, 2019, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 05, 2019, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 04, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!
i heard her talking about a new tax plan today if I was her I'd stick to the dancing

70% rate on earnings OVER $10m sounds Ok to me... pretty sure the majority of Americans could cope with it as well!!
might fly in the eu not here

Apparently it affects like 20,000 people why shouldn't it?

Different mindset over here. It would be viewed as a penalty on successful people

Seeing as there is no floor over here (in terms of welfare) many people think there shouldn't be a cap on the other end either, and the top 1% already pay a disproportionate amount of the overall tax take

Don't know who you hang out with but that ain't the mindset beyond the world of the "trickle down" BS artists who don't want to pay their fair share. Subscribers to the Voodoo Economics Job creator theory.. Would that be the Don't tax me and I will create jobs Penalty that you are talking about.
The 1% pay a disproportionately low amount of taxes relative to what they reap from the Government.
What do you mean "there is no floor over here (in terms of welfare)? Perhaps you could explain !
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2019, 12:18:44 PM
Eh.....who's whinging?

The market has spoken and I now rely almost exclusively on Twitter for political discourse.

If a private company wants to take sides that's entirely up to them, but the only folks FB are fooling are themselves  if they think  are enforcing their standards uniformly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.

Absolutely not

I already knew they were biased

If an spokesperson for a publicly traded company knowingly makes materially  false statements they could be charged with any number of violations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 07, 2019, 01:39:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.

Absolutely not

I already knew they were biased

If an spokesperson for a publicly traded company knowingly makes materially  false statements they could be charged with any number of violations
Yeah, and a bit mad that a president cant!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2019, 02:05:19 PM
Tell me about it

IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH PLAN YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEALTH PLAN ......PERIOD!!!!!!

Do you remember who said that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 02:22:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 02:05:19 PM
Tell me about it

IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH PLAN YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEALTH PLAN ......PERIOD!!!!!!

Do you remember who said that?

Barack Hussein Obama. Do I win the speedboat Jim?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 07, 2019, 02:49:51 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/f2bf1ea1372c7a3d55b27ca036f508a3/tumblr_owyshbLmB81wzypxlo3_500.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2019, 02:59:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 02:05:19 PM
Tell me about it

IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH PLAN YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEALTH PLAN ......PERIOD!!!!!!

Do you remember who said that?

Fair enough, but do you really want to line the likes of Obama up against Trump in terms of character and lying? Just about every president (maybe the pious Carter or a decent man like Ford being exceptions) has lies which can be leveled at them. No one, at least in the modern era, does so with the impunity of Trump, as a matter of course, on a daily basis, often in direct contradiction of what he said the day or days before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2019, 03:57:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 02:59:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 02:05:19 PM
Tell me about it

IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH PLAN YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEALTH PLAN ......PERIOD!!!!!!

Do you remember who said that?

Fair enough, but do you really want to line the likes of Obama up against Trump in terms of character and lying? Just about every president (maybe the pious Carter or a decent man like Ford being exceptions) has lies which can be leveled at them. No one, at least in the modern era, does so with the impunity of Trump, as a matter of course, on a daily basis, often in direct contradiction of what he said the day or days before.

Agreed

I made what I view as a factual statement about the potential legal perils of an officer of a publicly traded company (Facebook) making material misrepresentations

Someone then decided to try and deflect that onto Trump. Then I decided to try and deflect that onto Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.

Absolutely not

I already knew they were biased

If an spokesperson for a publicly traded company knowingly makes materially  false statements they could be charged with any number of violations

Well said, I would say that Zuckerberg was definitely evasive about what they did to combat the use of their platform by Russian and Trump campaign conspirators to push false and misleading stories promoting Donald Trump in the 2016 election.

Pesky right wing bias, eh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2019, 04:19:19 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.

Absolutely not

I already knew they were biased

If an spokesperson for a publicly traded company knowingly makes materially  false statements they could be charged with any number of violations

Well said, I would say that Zuckerberg was definitely evasive about what they did to combat the use of their platform by Russian and Trump campaign conspirators to push false and misleading stories promoting Donald Trump in the 2016 election.

Pesky right wing bias, eh?
Facebook is out of control
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.

Absolutely not

I already knew they were biased

If an spokesperson for a publicly traded company knowingly makes materially  false statements they could be charged with any number of violations

Well said, I would say that Zuckerberg was definitely evasive about what they did to combat the use of their platform by Russian and Trump campaign conspirators to push false and misleading stories promoting Donald Trump in the 2016 election.

Pesky right wing bias, eh?


I'm more interested in Sheryl Sandberg having secret meetings with Hillary and handing  over "research" to her campaign


Believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2019, 04:31:08 PM
Must have been before she went the Soros conspiracy route in terms of dealing with Facebook's bad PR.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
Another illegal immigrant causes a US citizen death in Tennesse. Driving with no licence or insurance either. The law does not apply to this group and the left certainly won't call them out.


https://eu.knoxnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/04/death-knoxville-fire-captains-son-sparks-illegal-immigration-debate/2471420002/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Surely it's just "locker room talk"??

Poor Gmac.

Now the GOP will have no choice but to get down in the dirt and fight fire with fire by allying themselves to foul-mouthed, lying, corrupt, misogynistic, racist, xenophobes.

Oh wait...

That sounds like Keith Ellison. I think he's the Democrat vice chairman chairperson.

Still waiting for anyone in his party to condemn his actions or the #metoo movement to call him to account.

Nah, I think the crown fits most well on the head of Trump and the GOP policies.

Not that the Dems are perfect by any means or beyond hypocrisy.

But at least they jettisoned the likes of Franken and Conyers.

Which is a lot more than you can say for the Grab 'em by the Pussy (that almost makes the acronym GOP!) party.

J70 - I mean to ask you what should the democrats do about Ellison?
They have the evidence so why the reluctance?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2019, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
Another illegal immigrant causes a US citizen death in Tennesse. Driving with no licence or insurance either. The law does not apply to this group and the left certainly won't call them out.


https://eu.knoxnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/04/death-knoxville-fire-captains-son-sparks-illegal-immigration-debate/2471420002/
Lettuce killed more Americans last year
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 07, 2019, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
Another illegal immigrant causes a US citizen death in Tennesse. Driving with no licence or insurance either. The law does not apply to this group and the left certainly won't call them out.


https://eu.knoxnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/04/death-knoxville-fire-captains-son-sparks-illegal-immigration-debate/2471420002/
Lettuce killed more Americans last year

Maybe so, but at least the lettuce came in legally.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 04:56:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.

Absolutely not

I already knew they were biased

If an spokesperson for a publicly traded company knowingly makes materially  false statements they could be charged with any number of violations

Well said, I would say that Zuckerberg was definitely evasive about what they did to combat the use of their platform by Russian and Trump campaign conspirators to push false and misleading stories promoting Donald Trump in the 2016 election.

Pesky right wing bias, eh?


I'm more interested in Sheryl Sandberg having secret meetings with Hillary and handing  over "research" to her campaign


Believe what you want

And I'm interested in unicorns...doesn't make them real.

Love your signature - believe what you want. I suppose that is how you square rigorously supporting a Trumpian, authoritarian agenda without actually supporting him.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Surely it's just "locker room talk"??

Poor Gmac.

Now the GOP will have no choice but to get down in the dirt and fight fire with fire by allying themselves to foul-mouthed, lying, corrupt, misogynistic, racist, xenophobes.

Oh wait...

That sounds like Keith Ellison. I think he's the Democrat vice chairman chairperson.

Still waiting for anyone in his party to condemn his actions or the #metoo movement to call him to account.

Nah, I think the crown fits most well on the head of Trump and the GOP policies.

Not that the Dems are perfect by any means or beyond hypocrisy.

But at least they jettisoned the likes of Franken and Conyers.

Which is a lot more than you can say for the Grab 'em by the Pussy (that almost makes the acronym GOP!) party.

J70 - I mean to ask you what should the democrats do about Ellison?
They have the evidence so why the reluctance?

What evidence?

As far as I remember, his ex alleged that he forcefully dragged her off the bed by the leg, but would not release a video which supported her allegation. It then became "he said, she said". I'm not aware of any other allegations against him. This is not a case like Harvey Weinstein or Trump or Bill Cosby where dozens are lining up alleging harassment or assault.

So I am not sure what exactly you expect the Dems to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2019, 05:04:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 04:56:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.

Absolutely not

I already knew they were biased

If an spokesperson for a publicly traded company knowingly makes materially  false statements they could be charged with any number of violations

Well said, I would say that Zuckerberg was definitely evasive about what they did to combat the use of their platform by Russian and Trump campaign conspirators to push false and misleading stories promoting Donald Trump in the 2016 election.

Pesky right wing bias, eh?


I'm more interested in Sheryl Sandberg having secret meetings with Hillary and handing  over "research" to her campaign


Believe what you want

And I'm interested in unicorns...doesn't make them real.

Love your signature - believe what you want. I suppose that is how you square rigorously supporting a Trumpian, authoritarian agenda without actually supporting him.

There's a verified email from John Podesta detailing the meeting

Believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 07, 2019, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
Another illegal immigrant causes a US citizen death in Tennesse. Driving with no licence or insurance either. The law does not apply to this group and the left certainly won't call them out.


https://eu.knoxnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/04/death-knoxville-fire-captains-son-sparks-illegal-immigration-debate/2471420002/

I'm pretty sure this guy was arrested . . .  actually yeah he definitely was there's a picture in the article of him from the police department so definitely the law applies to this guy!! If you run over people you should definitely be arrested!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 05:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Surely it's just "locker room talk"??

Poor Gmac.

Now the GOP will have no choice but to get down in the dirt and fight fire with fire by allying themselves to foul-mouthed, lying, corrupt, misogynistic, racist, xenophobes.

Oh wait...

That sounds like Keith Ellison. I think he's the Democrat vice chairman chairperson.

Still waiting for anyone in his party to condemn his actions or the #metoo movement to call him to account.

Nah, I think the crown fits most well on the head of Trump and the GOP policies.

Not that the Dems are perfect by any means or beyond hypocrisy.

But at least they jettisoned the likes of Franken and Conyers.

Which is a lot more than you can say for the Grab 'em by the Pussy (that almost makes the acronym GOP!) party.

J70 - I mean to ask you what should the democrats do about Ellison?
They have the evidence so why the reluctance?

What evidence?

As far as I remember, his ex alleged that he forcefully dragged her off the bed by the leg, but would not release a video which supported her allegation. It then became "he said, she said". I'm not aware of any other allegations against him. This is not a case like Harvey Weinstein or Trump or Bill Cosby where dozens are lining up alleging harassment or assault.

So I am not sure what exactly you expect the Dems to do.

If you follow the precedent set by the baying mob in the Kavanuagh hearings he'd have been dismissed or at least suspended pending a rigorous investigation. Never happened.
While I get it that the democrats wouldn't turn in one of their own unless they had to it was surprising that none of the women's movements didn't get after him and take him down. None of that "she must be believed" stuff this time.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 05:45:28 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2019, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
Another illegal immigrant causes a US citizen death in Tennesse. Driving with no licence or insurance either. The law does not apply to this group and the left certainly won't call them out.


https://eu.knoxnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/04/death-knoxville-fire-captains-son-sparks-illegal-immigration-debate/2471420002/

I'm pretty sure this guy was arrested . . .  actually yeah he definitely was there's a picture in the article of him from the police department so definitely the law applies to this guy!! If you run over people you should definitely be arrested!!

Illegally in the country - check
driving with no insurance - check
driving with no licence - check
killing US citizen - check

There's 4 illegal acts before being picked up. You'll have the usual suspects try get him freed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2019, 06:01:58 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 05:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Surely it's just "locker room talk"??

Poor Gmac.

Now the GOP will have no choice but to get down in the dirt and fight fire with fire by allying themselves to foul-mouthed, lying, corrupt, misogynistic, racist, xenophobes.

Oh wait...

That sounds like Keith Ellison. I think he's the Democrat vice chairman chairperson.

Still waiting for anyone in his party to condemn his actions or the #metoo movement to call him to account.

Nah, I think the crown fits most well on the head of Trump and the GOP policies.

Not that the Dems are perfect by any means or beyond hypocrisy.

But at least they jettisoned the likes of Franken and Conyers.

Which is a lot more than you can say for the Grab 'em by the Pussy (that almost makes the acronym GOP!) party.

J70 - I mean to ask you what should the democrats do about Ellison?
They have the evidence so why the reluctance?

What evidence?

As far as I remember, his ex alleged that he forcefully dragged her off the bed by the leg, but would not release a video which supported her allegation. It then became "he said, she said". I'm not aware of any other allegations against him. This is not a case like Harvey Weinstein or Trump or Bill Cosby where dozens are lining up alleging harassment or assault.

So I am not sure what exactly you expect the Dems to do.

If you follow the precedent set by the baying mob in the Kavanuagh hearings he'd have been dismissed or at least suspended pending a rigorous investigation. Never happened.
While I get it that the democrats wouldn't turn in one of their own unless they had to it was surprising that none of the women's movements didn't get after him and take him down. None of that "she must be believed" stuff this time.

The big brouhaha over Kavanaugh was delaying the vote to allow the "investigation" AND the fact that Ford actually came and testified before the Senate (to the extent that Fox News, immediately after, found her testimony likely fatal for Kavanaugh's nomination).

Ellison's accuser put out an accusation and left it at that. If you can name another person whose career has been ended in similar circumstances, go for it.

And spare us the "Democrat's wouldn't turn on one of their own" - Conyers and Franken were forced to resign by pressure and lack of support from their party. The GOP bows down to and is ruled by a corrupt, lecherous lowlife, cheered on by yourself. The Dems ain't perfect by any stretch, but at least they've started down the road towards trying to deal with this stuff. The likes of Biden will have to account for his comments and conduct with Anita Hill should he run. Is any such reckoning likely on the GOP side?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2019, 06:06:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 05:45:28 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2019, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
Another illegal immigrant causes a US citizen death in Tennesse. Driving with no licence or insurance either. The law does not apply to this group and the left certainly won't call them out.


https://eu.knoxnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/04/death-knoxville-fire-captains-son-sparks-illegal-immigration-debate/2471420002/

I'm pretty sure this guy was arrested . . .  actually yeah he definitely was there's a picture in the article of him from the police department so definitely the law applies to this guy!! If you run over people you should definitely be arrested!!

Illegally in the country - check
driving with no insurance - check
driving with no licence - check
killing US citizen - check

There's 4 illegal acts before being picked up. You'll have the usual suspects try get him freed.

And those usual suspects trying to get him freed would be who, exactly?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 06:01:58 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 05:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 04:57:57 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 07, 2019, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 04, 2019, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Surely it's just "locker room talk"??

Poor Gmac.

Now the GOP will have no choice but to get down in the dirt and fight fire with fire by allying themselves to foul-mouthed, lying, corrupt, misogynistic, racist, xenophobes.

Oh wait...

That sounds like Keith Ellison. I think he's the Democrat vice chairman chairperson.

Still waiting for anyone in his party to condemn his actions or the #metoo movement to call him to account.

Nah, I think the crown fits most well on the head of Trump and the GOP policies.

Not that the Dems are perfect by any means or beyond hypocrisy.

But at least they jettisoned the likes of Franken and Conyers.

Which is a lot more than you can say for the Grab 'em by the Pussy (that almost makes the acronym GOP!) party.

J70 - I mean to ask you what should the democrats do about Ellison?
They have the evidence so why the reluctance?

What evidence?

As far as I remember, his ex alleged that he forcefully dragged her off the bed by the leg, but would not release a video which supported her allegation. It then became "he said, she said". I'm not aware of any other allegations against him. This is not a case like Harvey Weinstein or Trump or Bill Cosby where dozens are lining up alleging harassment or assault.

So I am not sure what exactly you expect the Dems to do.

If you follow the precedent set by the baying mob in the Kavanuagh hearings he'd have been dismissed or at least suspended pending a rigorous investigation. Never happened.
While I get it that the democrats wouldn't turn in one of their own unless they had to it was surprising that none of the women's movements didn't get after him and take him down. None of that "she must be believed" stuff this time.

The big brouhaha over Kavanaugh was delaying the vote to allow the "investigation" AND the fact that Ford actually came and testified before the Senate (to the extent that Fox News, immediately after, found her testimony likely fatal for Kavanaugh's nomination).

Ellison's accuser put out an accusation and left it at that. If you can name another person whose career has been ended in similar circumstances, go for it.

And spare us the "Democrat's wouldn't turn on one of their own" - Conyers and Franken were forced to resign by pressure and lack of support from their party. The GOP bows down to and is ruled by a corrupt, lecherous lowlife, cheered on by yourself. The Dems ain't perfect by any stretch, but at least they've started down the road towards trying to deal with this stuff. The likes of Biden will have to account for his comments and conduct with Anita Hill should he run. Is any such reckoning likely on the GOP side?

Not much of a comparison with Ellison. Jesus (look him up on Wikipedia if you're one of those seculars) himself couldn't have saved Conyers or Franken such was the evidence against them.
That picture of the boob grab was kind of a career ending move.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2019, 07:10:33 PM
"Grab 'em by the pussy" would have been too...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2019, 07:56:28 PM
I see RBG missed the opening session of the Supreme Court


Wishing her a very speedy recovery and long and healthy retirement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2019, 08:08:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 07:56:28 PM
I see RBG missed the opening session of the Supreme Court


Wishing her a very speedy recovery and long and healthy retirement

Why though?

How will a 6-3 Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years or more benefit you or any of the rest of us?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 08:08:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 07:56:28 PM
I see RBG missed the opening session of the Supreme Court


Wishing her a very speedy recovery and long and healthy retirement

Why though?

How will a 6-3 Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years or more benefit you or any of the rest of us?

I really just want to see liberal heads explode
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 07, 2019, 08:32:46 PM
Conservatives would burn their own towns to the ground if they thought it would upset a liberal. That's how deranged conservatives have become.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2019, 08:43:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 08:08:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 07:56:28 PM
I see RBG missed the opening session of the Supreme Court


Wishing her a very speedy recovery and long and healthy retirement

Why though?

How will a 6-3 Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years or more benefit you or any of the rest of us?

I really just want to see liberal heads explode

No valid or defensible reason?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2019, 08:58:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 07, 2019, 08:32:46 PM
Conservatives would burn their own towns to the ground if they thought it would upset a liberal. That's how deranged conservatives have become.

Based on how the Dems tried to railroad a good man like Kavanaugh, I hope Trump gets at least 1 if not 2 more picks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2019, 10:48:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 08:58:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 07, 2019, 08:32:46 PM
Conservatives would burn their own towns to the ground if they thought it would upset a liberal. That's how deranged conservatives have become.

Based on how the Dems tried to railroad a good man like Kavanaugh, I hope Trump gets at least 1 if not 2 more picks
Duh you do - you're a rabid Trump lover and racist, mysogynist piece of shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 07, 2019, 11:43:39 PM
Hey Whitey. If you jumped into a fire, I and many other liberals would be outraged. Our heads would explode.

How about it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 08, 2019, 01:42:29 AM
Whitey, that "good man" lied in a confirmation hearing to be a Supreme Court justice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 02:13:17 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 08, 2019, 01:42:29 AM
Whitey, that "good man" lied in a confirmation hearing to be a Supreme Court justice.

Dr Blasey Ford lied too and her supporters also attempted to get a "witness" to change her story so I really dont give 2 flying fvcks if Kavanaugh underplayed his teenage drinking exploits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 08, 2019, 02:35:30 AM
And that, Whitey, underscores your moral bankruptcy. When people appear in court, they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, when a man who interviews to be a justice on the the country's highest court lies openly and obviously, you have no problem with that. Any reference to Ford is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 08, 2019, 08:56:14 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 08, 2019, 02:35:30 AM
And that, Whitey, underscores your moral bankruptcy. When people appear in court, they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, when a man who interviews to be a justice on the the country's highest court lies openly and obviously, you have no problem with that. Any reference to Ford is irrelevant.

Does that apply to accusers as well?? Or just Judge Kavanaugh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 08, 2019, 02:35:30 AM
And that, Whitey, underscores your moral bankruptcy. When people appear in court, they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, when a man who interviews to be a justice on the the country's highest court lies openly and obviously, you have no problem with that. Any reference to Ford is irrelevant.
The Democrats were willing to assassinate the character of a man who had never set a foot wrong in his entire adult life.  He was a drunken ass in his teenage years, but my God to accuse him of attempted rape with that pile of utter horse $hit was evil personified

And we've seen this playbook before from the Democrats

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/us/politics/years-later-a-prep-school-bullying-case-snares-romney.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2019, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 08, 2019, 02:35:30 AM
And that, Whitey, underscores your moral bankruptcy. When people appear in court, they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, when a man who interviews to be a justice on the the country's highest court lies openly and obviously, you have no problem with that. Any reference to Ford is irrelevant.
The Democrats were willing to assassinate the character of a man who had never set a foot wrong in his entire adult life.  He was a drunken ass in his teenage years, but my God to accuse him of attempted rape with that pile of utter horse $hit was evil personified

And we've seen this playbook before from the Democrats

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/us/politics/years-later-a-prep-school-bullying-case-snares-romney.html

What are you on about?

That Romney story was perfectly legitimate, especially given the GOP's hostility, both policy and dogma-wise, to gays.

That Romney moved on from his idiotic conduct in his youth is documented in the piece.

And spare us your "Democratic playbook" bollocks. All sides in US politics go digging for dirt to put the opponent on the defensive. The GOP and Fox News and the rest of the right wing machine spent more than a year on Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers during the '08 campaign. Or how about the Swiftboat bullshit? Or back to Obama and the whole birther thing, tacitly endorsed all the way up to Speaker of the House. I can go on...

Your bullshit victimhood crusade is nauseating.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 07:10:33 PM
"Grab 'em by the pussy" would have been too...

They were words said in jest in a private conversation. No actions.
Tell me that you've never said anything off-color in your entire life regarding females.
Ellison physically attacked his girlfriend. There is no comparison.

But democrats didn't discard him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 11:54:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 07:56:28 PM
I see RBG missed the opening session of the Supreme Court


Wishing her a very speedy recovery and long and healthy retirement

I've said it before, they should fingerprint/dna test her regularly  to ensure the democrats don't try put in a stunt double.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2019, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 07:10:33 PM
"Grab 'em by the pussy" would have been too...

They were words said in jest in a private conversation. No actions.
Tell me that you've never said anything off-color in your entire life regarding females.
Ellison physically attacked his girlfriend. There is no comparison.

But democrats didn't discard him.

How do you know there were no actions?

Women have made allegations of assault against him.

And now he's king of the American right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 07:10:33 PM
"Grab 'em by the pussy" would have been too...

They were words said in jest in a private conversation. No actions.
Tell me that you've never said anything off-color in your entire life regarding females.
Ellison physically attacked his girlfriend. There is no comparison.

But democrats didn't discard him.

How do you know there were no actions?

Women have made allegations of assault against him.

And now he's king of the American right.

I notice you're capable of engaging in whataboutery yourself whenever you're in a tricky spot and don't want to address the initial question about Keith Ellison.

As for Trump - They were gold diggers all looking for a payout. Nothing substantial that they could actually bring to court. If the democrats had anything on him you can be sure it would have surfaced by now. Stormy Daniels was their money shot.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 08, 2019, 02:35:30 AM
And that, Whitey, underscores your moral bankruptcy. When people appear in court, they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, when a man who interviews to be a justice on the the country's highest court lies openly and obviously, you have no problem with that. Any reference to Ford is irrelevant.
The Democrats were willing to assassinate the character of a man who had never set a foot wrong in his entire adult life.  He was a drunken ass in his teenage years, but my God to accuse him of attempted rape with that pile of utter horse $hit was evil personified

And we've seen this playbook before from the Democrats

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/us/politics/years-later-a-prep-school-bullying-case-snares-romney.html

What are you on about?

That Romney story was perfectly legitimate, especially given the GOP's hostility, both policy and dogma-wise, to gays.

That Romney moved on from his idiotic conduct in his youth is documented in the piece.

And spare us your "Democratic playbook" bollocks. All sides in US politics go digging for dirt to put the opponent on the defensive. The GOP and Fox News and the rest of the right wing machine spent more than a year on Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers during the '08 campaign. Or how about the Swiftboat bullshit? Or back to Obama and the whole birther thing, tacitly endorsed all the way up to Speaker of the House. I can go on...

Your bullshit victimhood crusade is nauseating.

Don't take my word for it!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 02:18:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 05:04:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 04:56:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.

Absolutely not

I already knew they were biased

If an spokesperson for a publicly traded company knowingly makes materially  false statements they could be charged with any number of violations

Well said, I would say that Zuckerberg was definitely evasive about what they did to combat the use of their platform by Russian and Trump campaign conspirators to push false and misleading stories promoting Donald Trump in the 2016 election.

Pesky right wing bias, eh?


I'm more interested in Sheryl Sandberg having secret meetings with Hillary and handing  over "research" to her campaign


Believe what you want

And I'm interested in unicorns...doesn't make them real.

Love your signature - believe what you want. I suppose that is how you square rigorously supporting a Trumpian, authoritarian agenda without actually supporting him.

There's a verified email from John Podesta detailing the meeting

Believe what you want

I will believe what I want - the great thing about your stance is that facts and evidence mean nothing. I won't ask you to link to the evidence, or read it to see if what you claimed happen within the meeting actually happened - because you wouldn't ever extend the same duty of care to the truth to anyone else.

So I'll believe that you are a mendacious actor, who won't even fess up to his own political prejudices, whilst displaying all their worst aspects, smug in your rhetorical position but absolutely ignorant of the completely corrosive effect that rhetoric, that you and other trolls employ constantly, has on our societies.

And you can believe whatever you want, because, as we both know, it doesn't really matter either way. It's just the internet, right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2019, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 02:18:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 05:04:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 04:56:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 04, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 04, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
People need to realise what free speech and the first amendment actually mean - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc are all private, commercial forums, subject to user agreement. Their owners have every right under the American Constitution to censor what goes on their own, commercial platforms.

Now, if you wanted to guarantee free speech on these platforms, under the Constitution, you would have to nationalise these platforms. Which is a policy I would support, and, coincidentally, it is really hilarious to see right wing, small government, libertarians being forced to use this argument, thus essentially nullifying their world view of "government - bad! Market - good!"

So, as you can see Dolph, Whitey et al, the "speech police" are actually mall cops. Perhaps you should change where you shop.

These are publicly traded companies that should be enforcing their standards uniformly. What's good for the left should be good for the right. Their "enforcement" seems to be very one sided and overly restrictive on points of view that are right leaning.In time these platforms will evolve and maybe even face competition from other sources. Eg I now use Twitter much more than Facebook

Facebook has free speech rights as well you know, or don't you remember Citizens United? Online commercial platforms can enforce any editorial line they like, it's there in their user agreements.

The market has chosen Whitey - stop whinging like a snowflake.

BTW a Trump supporter banging on about left wing bias on Facebook, given what all US intelligence bodies have confirmed went on there during the 2016 campaign, is a bit much.

Eh...you.

Absolutely not

I already knew they were biased

If an spokesperson for a publicly traded company knowingly makes materially  false statements they could be charged with any number of violations

Well said, I would say that Zuckerberg was definitely evasive about what they did to combat the use of their platform by Russian and Trump campaign conspirators to push false and misleading stories promoting Donald Trump in the 2016 election.

Pesky right wing bias, eh?


I'm more interested in Sheryl Sandberg having secret meetings with Hillary and handing  over "research" to her campaign


Believe what you want

And I'm interested in unicorns...doesn't make them real.

Love your signature - believe what you want. I suppose that is how you square rigorously supporting a Trumpian, authoritarian agenda without actually supporting him.

There's a verified email from John Podesta detailing the meeting

Believe what you want

I will believe what I want - the great thing about your stance is that facts and evidence mean nothing. I won't ask you to link to the evidence, or read it to see if what you claimed happen within the meeting actually happened - because you wouldn't ever extend the same duty of care to the truth to anyone else.

So I'll believe that you are a mendacious actor, who won't even fess up to his own political prejudices, whilst displaying all their worst aspects, smug in your rhetorical position but absolutely ignorant of the completely corrosive effect that rhetoric, that you and other trolls employ constantly, has on our societies.

And you can believe whatever you want, because, as we both know, it doesn't really matter either way. It's just the internet, right?

The US is polarised. So is the UK. This means there are 2 sides who believe in different things that cannot be reconciled.
Polarisation is magic vs reality because you cannot stand in polar opposition to reality with a separate reality. Something has to give.
Whitey's "believe what you want" is magic because magic  is whatever you want it to be,  like Brexit.

There is no point in engaging with him because he isn't tuned in to reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2019, 03:07:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.
Only one "side" is legitimate.
The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Magic is not real
In polarisation one side is bullshit. The GOP went over to the dark side a while ago. 
I would say that the 2 sides can be described as "decent" and "fascist"

There was no polarisation between 1946 and 1979
It's a feature of debt expansion systems. They also feature bank collapses, plutocracy, deflation and big surges in homelessness

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2019, 03:39:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 08, 2019, 02:35:30 AM
And that, Whitey, underscores your moral bankruptcy. When people appear in court, they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, when a man who interviews to be a justice on the the country's highest court lies openly and obviously, you have no problem with that. Any reference to Ford is irrelevant.
The Democrats were willing to assassinate the character of a man who had never set a foot wrong in his entire adult life.  He was a drunken ass in his teenage years, but my God to accuse him of attempted rape with that pile of utter horse $hit was evil personified

And we've seen this playbook before from the Democrats

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/us/politics/years-later-a-prep-school-bullying-case-snares-romney.html

What are you on about?

That Romney story was perfectly legitimate, especially given the GOP's hostility, both policy and dogma-wise, to gays.

That Romney moved on from his idiotic conduct in his youth is documented in the piece.

And spare us your "Democratic playbook" bollocks. All sides in US politics go digging for dirt to put the opponent on the defensive. The GOP and Fox News and the rest of the right wing machine spent more than a year on Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers during the '08 campaign. Or how about the Swiftboat bullshit? Or back to Obama and the whole birther thing, tacitly endorsed all the way up to Speaker of the House. I can go on...

Your bullshit victimhood crusade is nauseating.

Don't take my word for it!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/campaign-stops/crying-wolf-then-confronting-trump.amp.html

Take your word for what?

That both sides try to dig up dirt and hype it up?

That's exactly what I said.

YOU'RE the one whining about the "Democratic playbook".

That in Trump there was actually candidate so extreme that the earlier hype seems foolish or naive in retrospect doesn't change anything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2019, 03:55:05 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 07:10:33 PM
"Grab 'em by the pussy" would have been too...

They were words said in jest in a private conversation. No actions.
Tell me that you've never said anything off-color in your entire life regarding females.
Ellison physically attacked his girlfriend. There is no comparison.

But democrats didn't discard him.

How do you know there were no actions?

Women have made allegations of assault against him.

And now he's king of the American right.

I notice you're capable of engaging in whataboutery yourself whenever you're in a tricky spot and don't want to address the initial question about Keith Ellison.

As for Trump - They were gold diggers all looking for a payout. Nothing substantial that they could actually bring to court. If the democrats had anything on him you can be sure it would have surfaced by now. Stormy Daniels was their money shot.

I did address Ellison. The woman put out an allegation and did nothing to substantiate it despite the supposed existence of a video. He denied it. It was he said/she said. Given that, what else is there to say? If you can find something I've said here that is inconsistent with that, bring it up by all means.

As for whataboutery, EVERYONE engages in it. Its absolutely appropriate, especially when it comes to politics.

But if your side is so righteous on this matter, then I expect lots of women to be making the move over to the GOP side.

And back to Trump, what exactly would some woman who was felt up by Trump against their will on a plane or in a night club or at Mara Lago and so on and on bring to court twenty or thirty years later?

You're so positive he's an innocent victim of numerous "gold diggers", yet equally positive Ellison is guilty?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:16:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

The thing is, though, that the great majority of foot soldiers and useful idiots, like the lads here, don't really understand that this is what they're supporting. Their votes are being harvested by monsters who feed them tales of monsters.

Democracy is being subverted by Fear, Ignorance, Stupidity and Hatred. Who'd have thought the next holocaust might be caused by FISH?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2019, 04:29:51 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:16:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

The thing is, though, that the great majority of foot soldiers and useful idiots, like the lads here, don't really understand that this is what they're supporting. Their votes are being harvested by monsters who feed them tales of monsters.

Democracy is being subverted by Fear, Ignorance, Stupidity and Hatred. Who'd have thought the next holocaust might be caused by FISH?

On the bright though, they're having fun watching the nasty libtards flipping out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 04:34:17 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:16:14 PM
Democracy is being subverted by Fear, Ignorance, Stupidity and Hatred.

Exactly. Donald Trump won the election fair and square yet his opponents have tried to subvert since that day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:42:37 PM


Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 04:29:51 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:16:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

The thing is, though, that the great majority of foot soldiers and useful idiots, like the lads here, don't really understand that this is what they're supporting. Their votes are being harvested by monsters who feed them tales of monsters.

Democracy is being subverted by Fear, Ignorance, Stupidity and Hatred. Who'd have thought the next holocaust might be caused by FISH?

On the bright though, they're having fun watching the nasty libtards flipping out.
The weird, mind-boggling truth is that this is very much at the heart of their hatred of progressive politics . All of the (few) people I know personally who endorse the right wing agenda will regularly refer to  the "smugness" of progressives as a motivation to oppose everything they describe with their swear-word "liberal". You practically never hear the same thing in reverse.

It's the same syndrome that motivates the demonisation of experts and the challenge to science. They hate the person who proves they're wrong more than they hate the person who caused them to be wrong by deliberately lying to them. As somebody said, they would rather burn the world down than try to live in it like adults.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 04:54:36 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:42:37 PM


Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 04:29:51 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:16:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

The thing is, though, that the great majority of foot soldiers and useful idiots, like the lads here, don't really understand that this is what they're supporting. Their votes are being harvested by monsters who feed them tales of monsters.

Democracy is being subverted by Fear, Ignorance, Stupidity and Hatred. Who'd have thought the next holocaust might be caused by FISH?

On the bright though, they're having fun watching the nasty libtards flipping out.
The weird, mind-boggling truth is that this is very much at the heart of their hatred of progressive politics . All of the (few) people I know personally who endorse the right wing agenda will regularly refer to  the "smugness" of progressives as a motivation to oppose everything they describe with their swear-word "liberal". You practically never hear the same thing in reverse.

It's the same syndrome that motivates the demonisation of experts and the challenge to science. They hate the person who proves they're wrong more than they hate the person who caused them to be wrong by deliberately lying to them. As somebody said, they would rather burn the world down than try to live in it like adults.
Linguistics and framing is at the heart of realty-denying far right politics. It's at the heart of all propaganda.

It has a whole lexicon and a whole strategy of deflection, evasion, obfuscation and lies designed to appeal to base prejudices and whip up fear and hatred.

It never, ever strays outside of it, because to do that, would be to fight on reality-accepting terms. It must never do that if it wants to win.

It's 21st century Goebbels and then some.

These people are fighting a vicious war in which genuine debate has no part whatsoever, and the sooner ordinary people realise this, the sooner these shysters and spoofers will be defeated.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 05:01:36 PM
This is a technique frequently used by far right nutcases to control the terms of "debate". Basically just fire out lie after lie after lie.

And always in a super confident fashion.

When you have no interest in facts and every interest in promoting lies, you can do that.

The airwaves are polluted by the these robo-fascists. Not just in the US, but, increasingly, everywhere.

Media loves them because they provoke "reactions". It's all about "reactions" these days.

And sadly, that makes media who platform these reality-deniers complicit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2019, 05:13:52 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:16:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

The thing is, though, that the great majority of foot soldiers and useful idiots, like the lads here, don't really understand that this is what they're supporting. Their votes are being harvested by monsters who feed them tales of monsters.

Democracy is being subverted by Fear, Ignorance, Stupidity and Hatred. Who'd have thought the next holocaust might be caused by FISH?
It is a repeat of the 1930s

Capital will not give up  until it is forced to by the people. People first of all have to understand what is going on but journalists also need to understand and
there is very little understanding anywhere

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2019/0106/1020559-dancing-with-the-stars-judges-predict-who-could-win/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2019, 05:15:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.
Use of the term Polarisation does not mean legitimisation.
Polarisation is a tool used by plutocrats to prevent reform.
The UK has been paralysed for the last 2 and a half years over Brexit, which is a polarisation machine
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!


Hey J70

Did you See the latest example of fake news?

NY Times and Newsweek claiming conservatives were outraged by the dancing video and sprung to AOC 's defense. Problem is it was all BS


https://www.google.com/amp/s/hotair.com/archives/2019/01/07/conservatives-actually-offended-ocasio-cortez-dance-video/amp/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 05:24:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2019, 05:15:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.
Use of the term Polarisation does not mean legitimisation.
Polarisation is a tool used by plutocrats to prevent reform.
The UK has been paralysed for the last 2 and a half years over Brexit, which is a polarisation machine
The term "polarisation" implies equal legitimacy between two sides. It does not make a value judgement between these "sides".

Therefore it is a term which legitimises fascism, even if that is not the intent of the person who uses it.

The ideology of fascism has no legitimacy whatsoever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2019, 05:25:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:42:37 PM


Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 04:29:51 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:16:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

The thing is, though, that the great majority of foot soldiers and useful idiots, like the lads here, don't really understand that this is what they're supporting. Their votes are being harvested by monsters who feed them tales of monsters.

Democracy is being subverted by Fear, Ignorance, Stupidity and Hatred. Who'd have thought the next holocaust might be caused by FISH?

On the bright though, they're having fun watching the nasty libtards flipping out.
The weird, mind-boggling truth is that this is very much at the heart of their hatred of progressive politics . All of the (few) people I know personally who endorse the right wing agenda will regularly refer to  the "smugness" of progressives as a motivation to oppose everything they describe with their swear-word "liberal". You practically never hear the same thing in reverse.

It's the same syndrome that motivates the demonisation of experts and the challenge to science. They hate the person who proves they're wrong more than they hate the person who caused them to be wrong by deliberately lying to them. As somebody said, they would rather burn the world down than try to live in it like adults.
The plutocrat agenda is anti demand, anti inflation, anti progressive politics, anti payrise, pro debt, pro deflation, pro capital, pro market, pro ultra low interest rates .
In 2010 the banks could have been resolved by converting debt to equity but debt would have lost. Instead debt got 100 cents on the dollar thanks to the generosity of the taxpayer. It's also the reason there was another asset bubble in Dublin house prices. It is a system of Asset bubbles.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2019, 05:27:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 05:24:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2019, 05:15:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.
Use of the term Polarisation does not mean legitimisation.
Polarisation is a tool used by plutocrats to prevent reform.
The UK has been paralysed for the last 2 and a half years over Brexit, which is a polarisation machine
The term "polarisation" implies equal legitimacy between two sides. It does not make a value judgement between these "sides".

Therefore it is a term which legitimises fascism, even if that is not the intent of the person who uses it.

The ideology of fascism has no legitimacy whatsoever.
Debt-driven polarisation implies some kind of fascism , some ideology that is not rooted in reality.
Using the term polarisation does not legitimise Brexit or Arlene talking shite.
Would you shtop
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 05:31:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!


Hey J70

Did you See the latest example of fake news?

NY Times and Newsweek claiming conservatives were outraged by the dancing video and sprung to AOC 's defense. Problem is it was all BS


https://www.google.com/amp/s/hotair.com/archives/2019/01/07/conservatives-actually-offended-ocasio-cortez-dance-video/amp/
Yet the only reason I became aware of the video in which Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was dancing was through seeing it in tweets by pro-Trump fascist accounts, which were retweeted by non-fascist accounts I follow, which were highlighting the absolute misogyny and downright creepinesss of pro-Trump fascist ideology.

Pro-Trump fascists absolutely tried to "slut shame" Ocasio-Cortez.

They belatedly tried to row back - but only when they knew it was completely backfiring and merely exposing them as the vile, misogynist creeps they are.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 05:32:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 03:55:05 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 07:10:33 PM
"Grab 'em by the pussy" would have been too...

They were words said in jest in a private conversation. No actions.
Tell me that you've never said anything off-color in your entire life regarding females.
Ellison physically attacked his girlfriend. There is no comparison.

But democrats didn't discard him.

How do you know there were no actions?

Women have made allegations of assault against him.

And now he's king of the American right.

I notice you're capable of engaging in whataboutery yourself whenever you're in a tricky spot and don't want to address the initial question about Keith Ellison.

As for Trump - They were gold diggers all looking for a payout. Nothing substantial that they could actually bring to court. If the democrats had anything on him you can be sure it would have surfaced by now. Stormy Daniels was their money shot.

I did address Ellison. The woman put out an allegation and did nothing to substantiate it despite the supposed existence of a video. He denied it. It was he said/she said. Given that, what else is there to say? If you can find something I've said here that is inconsistent with that, bring it up by all means.

As for whataboutery, EVERYONE engages in it. Its absolutely appropriate, especially when it comes to politics.

But if your side is so righteous on this matter, then I expect lots of women to be making the move over to the GOP side.

And back to Trump, what exactly would some woman who was felt up by Trump against their will on a plane or in a night club or at Mara Lago and so on and on bring to court twenty or thirty years later?

You're so positive he's an innocent victim of numerous "gold diggers", yet equally positive Ellison is guilty?

So let me get this straight - democrats were ready to destroy Brett Kavanaugh given the circumstances of a he said/she said situation.

But fine for Keith Ellison. Nothing to see here. Right. I do love how you went in to bat for him. Your credibility takes a plunge J70.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 05:37:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 05:31:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!


Hey J70

Did you See the latest example of fake news?

NY Times and Newsweek claiming conservatives were outraged by the dancing video and sprung to AOC 's defense. Problem is it was all BS


https://www.google.com/amp/s/hotair.com/archives/2019/01/07/conservatives-actually-offended-ocasio-cortez-dance-video/amp/
Yet the only reason I became aware of the video in which Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was dancing was through seeing it in tweets by pro-Trump fascist accounts, which were retweeted by non-fascist accounts I follow, which were highlighting the absolute misogyny and downright creepinesss of pro-Trump fascist ideology.

Pro-Trump fascists absolutely tried to "slut shame" Ocasio-Cortez.

They belatedly tried to row back - but only when they knew it was completely backfiring and merely exposing them as the vile, misogynist creeps they are.

;D Sid has been triggered !!  ;D

When it comes to attempted slandering this (to borrow an expression from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) is the "tippy tops".

She is truly the idiot's idiot for the next generation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2019, 05:40:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!


Hey J70

Did you See the latest example of fake news?

NY Times and Newsweek claiming conservatives were outraged by the dancing video and sprung to AOC 's defense. Problem is it was all BS


https://www.google.com/amp/s/hotair.com/archives/2019/01/07/conservatives-actually-offended-ocasio-cortez-dance-video/amp/

So some conservative QAnon slackjaw DIDN'T dig up the video and label her a communist nitwit in an attempt to embarrass her?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2019, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 05:32:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 03:55:05 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2019, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 07:10:33 PM
"Grab 'em by the pussy" would have been too...

They were words said in jest in a private conversation. No actions.
Tell me that you've never said anything off-color in your entire life regarding females.
Ellison physically attacked his girlfriend. There is no comparison.

But democrats didn't discard him.

How do you know there were no actions?

Women have made allegations of assault against him.

And now he's king of the American right.

I notice you're capable of engaging in whataboutery yourself whenever you're in a tricky spot and don't want to address the initial question about Keith Ellison.

As for Trump - They were gold diggers all looking for a payout. Nothing substantial that they could actually bring to court. If the democrats had anything on him you can be sure it would have surfaced by now. Stormy Daniels was their money shot.

I did address Ellison. The woman put out an allegation and did nothing to substantiate it despite the supposed existence of a video. He denied it. It was he said/she said. Given that, what else is there to say? If you can find something I've said here that is inconsistent with that, bring it up by all means.

As for whataboutery, EVERYONE engages in it. Its absolutely appropriate, especially when it comes to politics.

But if your side is so righteous on this matter, then I expect lots of women to be making the move over to the GOP side.

And back to Trump, what exactly would some woman who was felt up by Trump against their will on a plane or in a night club or at Mara Lago and so on and on bring to court twenty or thirty years later?

You're so positive he's an innocent victim of numerous "gold diggers", yet equally positive Ellison is guilty?

So let me get this straight - democrats were ready to destroy Brett Kavanaugh given the circumstances of a he said/she said situation.

But fine for Keith Ellison. Nothing to see here. Right. I do love how you went in to bat for him. Your credibility takes a plunge J70.

I must have missed where Ellison's accuser went to a very high profile public forum and gave a very long, detailed account, potentially at great cost to herself, of what allegedly transpired.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2019, 05:45:08 PM

Al Franken
@alfranken

Tom Rukavina always fought for the Range and for the little guy. My favorite Tommy story—he was in a parade and a guy he knew called out, "Hey, Tommy! Why do you only care about the poor?" Without missing a beat, Rukavina responded, "You ARE poor, dummy!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
So Whitey, you're telling me that if an amoral sociopath engaged in a conspiracy with a geopolitical foe/right wing dictatorship, influenced by both financial and sexual kompromat, to win an election, by subverting social media platforms to carry micro-targeted messages to malleable voters, and in the process bringing down or at least actively trying to destroy, in no particular order, the post war western political order, NATO, modern journalism, pluralism, civility, minority groups (including African-Americans, Jewish people and the LGBTQ community), the American constitution, and of course, the planet itself, you'd be perfectly fine with that?

Just checkin.

Man, it must feel good to own the libs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 08, 2019, 05:59:34 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
So Whitey, you're telling me that if an amoral sociopath engaged in a conspiracy with a geopolitical foe/right wing dictatorship, influenced by both financial and sexual kompromat, to win an election, by subverting social media platforms to carry micro-targeted messages to malleable voters, and in the process bringing down or at least actively trying to destroy, in no particular order, the post war western political order, NATO, modern journalism, pluralism, civility, minority groups (including African-Americans, Jewish people and the LGBTQ community), the American constitution, and of course, the planet itself, you'd be perfectly fine with that?

Just checkin.

Man, it must feel good to own the libs.
where do u live ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:03:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 05:31:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2019, 09:18:18 PM
Maybe they can unearth another shocking video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dancing on a roof top in college.

That'll show 'em!


Hey J70

Did you See the latest example of fake news?

NY Times and Newsweek claiming conservatives were outraged by the dancing video and sprung to AOC 's defense. Problem is it was all BS


https://www.google.com/amp/s/hotair.com/archives/2019/01/07/conservatives-actually-offended-ocasio-cortez-dance-video/amp/
Yet the only reason I became aware of the video in which Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was dancing was through seeing it in tweets by pro-Trump fascist accounts, which were retweeted by non-fascist accounts I follow, which were highlighting the absolute misogyny and downright creepinesss of pro-Trump fascist ideology.

Pro-Trump fascists absolutely tried to "slut shame" Ocasio-Cortez.

They belatedly tried to row back - but only when they knew it was completely backfiring and merely exposing them as the vile, misogynist creeps they are.

So a handful of idiots on twitter now represent all Conservatives?

I'm on Twitter all the time and the first I read about the "outrage" was when I read about the outrage about the outrage

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
So Whitey, you're telling me that if an amoral sociopath engaged in a conspiracy with a geopolitical foe/right wing dictatorship, influenced by both financial and sexual kompromat, to win an election, by subverting social media platforms to carry micro-targeted messages to malleable voters, and in the process bringing down or at least actively trying to destroy, in no particular order, the post war western political order, NATO, modern journalism, pluralism, civility, minority groups (including African-Americans, Jewish people and the LGBTQ community), the American constitution, and of course, the planet itself, you'd be perfectly fine with that?

Just checkin.

Man, it must feel good to own the libs.

If that is what the Mueller investigation finds then I'm all for prosecuting those responsible to the fullest extent of the law.......nice deflection by the way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2019, 06:07:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:03:10 PM
So a handful of idiots on twitter now represent all Conservatives?

Yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2019, 06:10:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 05:01:36 PM
This is a technique frequently used by far right nutcases to control the terms of "debate". Basically just fire out lie after lie after lie.

And always in a super confident fashion.

When you have no interest in facts and every interest in promoting lies, you can do that.

The airwaves are polluted by the these robo-fascists. Not just in the US, but, increasingly, everywhere.

Media loves them because they provoke "reactions". It's all about "reactions" these days.

And sadly, that makes media who platform these reality-deniers complicit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

I didn't know there was a name for this method. I see conservatives use it a lot. Flood their opponents with a Niagra of lies, half-truths, misleading statements, straw men, and other assorted fallacies. Pile the bullshit so high that it would take forever to refute even bits of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
So Whitey, you're telling me that if an amoral sociopath engaged in a conspiracy with a geopolitical foe/right wing dictatorship, influenced by both financial and sexual kompromat, to win an election, by subverting social media platforms to carry micro-targeted messages to malleable voters, and in the process bringing down or at least actively trying to destroy, in no particular order, the post war western political order, NATO, modern journalism, pluralism, civility, minority groups (including African-Americans, Jewish people and the LGBTQ community), the American constitution, and of course, the planet itself, you'd be perfectly fine with that?

Just checkin.

Man, it must feel good to own the libs.

If that is what the Mueller investigation finds then I'm all for prosecuting those responsible to the fullest extent of the law.......nice deflection by the way

Oh, I learnt from the best. Can't wait for your deflections tonight when your fearless leader tries to declare a national emergency to build his wall. Imagine - a declaration of a non-existent emergency in order to facilitate the building of an imaginary solution to an immigration crisis when immigration at the Mexican border has been at a net deficit for the past two years.

Believe what you want.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:24:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2019, 06:07:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:03:10 PM
So a handful of idiots on twitter now represent all Conservatives?

Yes.
"Conservatism" has all but disappeared.

The Republican party isn't a "conservative" party. It's a destructivist party.

Those who think of themselves as "conservatives" tend to be nothing of the sort. They're destructivists and nihilists.

The problem for "conservatives" is that they have fundamentally mislabelled themselves and they don't know what they are.

Look at their attitude to climate change, for instance. There couldn't be a more genuinely conservative issue than protecting the environment.

Yet the Republican party has been completely hijacked by climate change deniers and environment destructivists.

"Conservatism" is in a total crisis of thought, but then again, when you refuse to think, you'll always have a crisis of thought. It literally doesn't know what it is, except that it entirely definez itself against things it doesn't like. It has no coherent positive vision.

"Conservatism's" problem is that for hundreds of years, it has been wrong on pretty much everything. But it at least at some points during those several hundred years, there was at least some semblance of attempts to think and come up with some coherent thoughts, even if they were pretty much always wrong.

Now, it has just given up and resorted to its true self, which amounts to nothing more thsn whinging and moaning like a petulant four year old child.

"Conservatism" really should be renamed "destructivism", or "whingeism", or "moanism" , or "petulant child throwing its toys out of the pram-ism", or some such.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 08, 2019, 06:29:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide

I would not put it past them. You've already seen what antifa are capable of in their pursuit of social justice.
Empowering these nutjobs is dangerous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:33:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
So Whitey, you're telling me that if an amoral sociopath engaged in a conspiracy with a geopolitical foe/right wing dictatorship, influenced by both financial and sexual kompromat, to win an election, by subverting social media platforms to carry micro-targeted messages to malleable voters, and in the process bringing down or at least actively trying to destroy, in no particular order, the post war western political order, NATO, modern journalism, pluralism, civility, minority groups (including African-Americans, Jewish people and the LGBTQ community), the American constitution, and of course, the planet itself, you'd be perfectly fine with that?

Just checkin.

Man, it must feel good to own the libs.

If that is what the Mueller investigation finds then I'm all for prosecuting those responsible to the fullest extent of the law.......nice deflection by the way

Oh, I learnt from the best. Can't wait for your deflections tonight when your fearless leader tries to declare a national emergency to build his wall. Imagine - a declaration of a non-existent emergency in order to facilitate the building of an imaginary solution to an immigration crisis when immigration at the Mexican border has been at a net deficit for the past two years.

Believe what you want.

Well for one I am not a Trump supporter, though I do support a handful of his ideas

Secondly, I have never advocated building a wall and think it is a ridiculous waste of time and money
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 08, 2019, 06:35:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:33:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
So Whitey, you're telling me that if an amoral sociopath engaged in a conspiracy with a geopolitical foe/right wing dictatorship, influenced by both financial and sexual kompromat, to win an election, by subverting social media platforms to carry micro-targeted messages to malleable voters, and in the process bringing down or at least actively trying to destroy, in no particular order, the post war western political order, NATO, modern journalism, pluralism, civility, minority groups (including African-Americans, Jewish people and the LGBTQ community), the American constitution, and of course, the planet itself, you'd be perfectly fine with that?

Just checkin.

Man, it must feel good to own the libs.

If that is what the Mueller investigation finds then I'm all for prosecuting those responsible to the fullest extent of the law.......nice deflection by the way

Oh, I learnt from the best. Can't wait for your deflections tonight when your fearless leader tries to declare a national emergency to build his wall. Imagine - a declaration of a non-existent emergency in order to facilitate the building of an imaginary solution to an immigration crisis when immigration at the Mexican border has been at a net deficit for the past two years.

Believe what you want.

Well for one I am not a Trump supporter, though I do support a handful of his ideas

Secondly, I have never advocated building a wall and think it is a ridiculous waste of time and money

Who did you vote for in the 2016 presidential election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide

Unfortunately you're still proving me entirely correct in your assessment of what the right do to try and derail debate.

It's clear you have no real confidence in your arguments.

The logical conclusion of the politics of hatred is genocide, and has history has proved this over and over again.

This fact needs to be hammered home at every opportunity.

A common misconception, likely deliberate, among those who seek to defend the politics of hatred, is that Naziism started with the Holocaust. It didn't. It started with exactly the same thing Trump is doing now - vilification of "others", which was ramped up, but by bit, year by year, until the norms of civilised society broke down to such an extent that genocide became acceptable and logical in the minds of people who didn't stand up to the politics of hatred when it could have been defeated, early on.

Instead of less comparisons to fascism and Naziism in public discourse, we need far more of it, because fascism and Naziism tells us what the logical outcome of the politics of hatred is, and if more people knew their history, they'd know to never embrace that politics of hatred.

There is no good politics of hatred, and no good outcome from it.

These are painful historical lessons from the real world.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
So Whitey, you're telling me that if an amoral sociopath engaged in a conspiracy with a geopolitical foe/right wing dictatorship, influenced by both financial and sexual kompromat, to win an election, by subverting social media platforms to carry micro-targeted messages to malleable voters, and in the process bringing down or at least actively trying to destroy, in no particular order, the post war western political order, NATO, modern journalism, pluralism, civility, minority groups (including African-Americans, Jewish people and the LGBTQ community), the American constitution, and of course, the planet itself, you'd be perfectly fine with that?

Just checkin.

Man, it must feel good to own the libs.

If that is what the Mueller investigation finds then I'm all for prosecuting those responsible to the fullest extent of the law.......nice deflection by the way

Oh, I learnt from the best. Can't wait for your deflections tonight when your fearless leader tries to declare a national emergency to build his wall. Imagine - a declaration of a non-existent emergency in order to facilitate the building of an imaginary solution to an immigration crisis when immigration at the Mexican border has been at a net deficit for the past two years.

Believe what you want.
A declaration of national emergency to demand funding for the US to pay for a pointless wall which President Fascist spent years telling everybody the US wouldn't pay a cent for.

As the right are wont to say, you couldn't make it up.

I think I smell burning from the Reichstag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:45:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide

Unfortunately you're still proving me entirely correct in your assessment of what the right do to try and derail debate.

It's clear you have no real confidence in your arguments.

The logical conclusion of the politics of hatred is genocide, and has history has proved this over and over again.

This fact needs to be hammered home at every opportunity.

A common misconception, likely deliberate, among those who seek to defend the politics of hatred, is that Naziism started with the Holocaust. It didn't. It started with exactly the same thing Trump is doing now - vilification of "others", which was ramped up, but by bit, year by year, until the norms of civilised society broke down to such an extent that genocide became acceptable and logical in the minds of people who didn't stand up to the politics of hatred when it could have been defeated, early on.

Instead of less comparisons to fascism and Naziism in public discourse, we need far more of it, because fascism and Naziism tells us what the logical outcome of the politics of hatred is, and if more people knew their history, they'd know to never embrace that politics of hatred.

There is no good politics of hatred, and no good outcome from it.

These are painful historical lessons from the real world.

What's my argument exactly that I dont have any confidence in?

The only thing that I am discussing is your attitude to opinions that differ from your own or your tribe

Believe me I know about the politics of hatred and you are exhibiting it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:45:13 PM
Quote from: dec on January 08, 2019, 06:35:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:33:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
So Whitey, you're telling me that if an amoral sociopath engaged in a conspiracy with a geopolitical foe/right wing dictatorship, influenced by both financial and sexual kompromat, to win an election, by subverting social media platforms to carry micro-targeted messages to malleable voters, and in the process bringing down or at least actively trying to destroy, in no particular order, the post war western political order, NATO, modern journalism, pluralism, civility, minority groups (including African-Americans, Jewish people and the LGBTQ community), the American constitution, and of course, the planet itself, you'd be perfectly fine with that?

Just checkin.

Man, it must feel good to own the libs.

If that is what the Mueller investigation finds then I'm all for prosecuting those responsible to the fullest extent of the law.......nice deflection by the way

Oh, I learnt from the best. Can't wait for your deflections tonight when your fearless leader tries to declare a national emergency to build his wall. Imagine - a declaration of a non-existent emergency in order to facilitate the building of an imaginary solution to an immigration crisis when immigration at the Mexican border has been at a net deficit for the past two years.

Believe what you want.

Well for one I am not a Trump supporter, though I do support a handful of his ideas

Secondly, I have never advocated building a wall and think it is a ridiculous waste of time and money

Who did you vote for in the 2016 presidential election?

Bernie in the Primary

I voted for Jill Stein in the General Election.

I didn't vote for Trump because I thought he might win the popular vote, then not accept Hillary's Electoral College victory as legitimate-lol.

And then Hillary went on to do exactly what I thought Trump would do
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:45:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide

Unfortunately you're still proving me entirely correct in your assessment of what the right do to try and derail debate.

It's clear you have no real confidence in your arguments.

The logical conclusion of the politics of hatred is genocide, and has history has proved this over and over again.

This fact needs to be hammered home at every opportunity.

A common misconception, likely deliberate, among those who seek to defend the politics of hatred, is that Naziism started with the Holocaust. It didn't. It started with exactly the same thing Trump is doing now - vilification of "others", which was ramped up, but by bit, year by year, until the norms of civilised society broke down to such an extent that genocide became acceptable and logical in the minds of people who didn't stand up to the politics of hatred when it could have been defeated, early on.

Instead of less comparisons to fascism and Naziism in public discourse, we need far more of it, because fascism and Naziism tells us what the logical outcome of the politics of hatred is, and if more people knew their history, they'd know to never embrace that politics of hatred.

There is no good politics of hatred, and no good outcome from it.

These are painful historical lessons from the real world.

What's my argument exactly that I dont have any confidence in?

The only thing that I am discussing is your attitude to opinions that differ from your own or your tribe

Believe me I know about the politics of hatred and you are exhibiting it.

That's a good question. I suppose for me to know what your "argument" is, you'll have to come up with one first.

Unfortunately, the only semblance of an "argument" I can gather from you so far is "those who claim to be tolerant are the real intolerant ones".

A right-wing cliche which is so inane, twisted and historically ignorant as to not merit a response.

"Historically ignorant" is being kind by the way.

Much more accurate would be to describe it as taking history and shitting all over it.

There's only one reason a person would do that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 07:12:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:45:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide

Unfortunately you're still proving me entirely correct in your assessment of what the right do to try and derail debate.

It's clear you have no real confidence in your arguments.

The logical conclusion of the politics of hatred is genocide, and has history has proved this over and over again.

This fact needs to be hammered home at every opportunity.

A common misconception, likely deliberate, among those who seek to defend the politics of hatred, is that Naziism started with the Holocaust. It didn't. It started with exactly the same thing Trump is doing now - vilification of "others", which was ramped up, but by bit, year by year, until the norms of civilised society broke down to such an extent that genocide became acceptable and logical in the minds of people who didn't stand up to the politics of hatred when it could have been defeated, early on.

Instead of less comparisons to fascism and Naziism in public discourse, we need far more of it, because fascism and Naziism tells us what the logical outcome of the politics of hatred is, and if more people knew their history, they'd know to never embrace that politics of hatred.

There is no good politics of hatred, and no good outcome from it.

These are painful historical lessons from the real world.

What's my argument exactly that I dont have any confidence in?

The only thing that I am discussing is your attitude to opinions that differ from your own or your tribe

Believe me I know about the politics of hatred and you are exhibiting it.

That's a good question. I suppose for me to know what your "argument" is, you'll have to come up with one first.

Unfortunately, the only semblance of an "argument" I can gather from you so far is "those who claim to be tolerant are the real intolerant ones".

A right-wing cliche which is so inane, twisted and historically ignorant as to not merit a response.

"Historically ignorant" is being kind by the way.

Much more accurate would be to describe it as taking history and shitting all over it.

There's only one reason a person would do that.

Oh thanks for telling me what my argument is and then shooting it down. That's called a straw man, but it seems like logic is only sporadically relevant to you

My case is with your attitude and statements, I don't care who you are aiming it at.

But it doesnt seem to be reserved for the far-right, alt-right or whatever they are called. You explicitly take aim at anyone who identifies as a a conservative or indeed anyone who differs from your opinion or as in the case of myself here it appears to call out your inciteful comments and lump everyone together to demonise.

Where do you think comments like "fight to the death" will lead to?
And what are you going to do about it? or perhaps your just an keyboard warrior so what like to see happening?




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 08:10:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 07:12:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:45:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide

Unfortunately you're still proving me entirely correct in your assessment of what the right do to try and derail debate.

It's clear you have no real confidence in your arguments.

The logical conclusion of the politics of hatred is genocide, and has history has proved this over and over again.

This fact needs to be hammered home at every opportunity.

A common misconception, likely deliberate, among those who seek to defend the politics of hatred, is that Naziism started with the Holocaust. It didn't. It started with exactly the same thing Trump is doing now - vilification of "others", which was ramped up, but by bit, year by year, until the norms of civilised society broke down to such an extent that genocide became acceptable and logical in the minds of people who didn't stand up to the politics of hatred when it could have been defeated, early on.

Instead of less comparisons to fascism and Naziism in public discourse, we need far more of it, because fascism and Naziism tells us what the logical outcome of the politics of hatred is, and if more people knew their history, they'd know to never embrace that politics of hatred.

There is no good politics of hatred, and no good outcome from it.

These are painful historical lessons from the real world.

What's my argument exactly that I dont have any confidence in?

The only thing that I am discussing is your attitude to opinions that differ from your own or your tribe

Believe me I know about the politics of hatred and you are exhibiting it.

That's a good question. I suppose for me to know what your "argument" is, you'll have to come up with one first.

Unfortunately, the only semblance of an "argument" I can gather from you so far is "those who claim to be tolerant are the real intolerant ones".

A right-wing cliche which is so inane, twisted and historically ignorant as to not merit a response.

"Historically ignorant" is being kind by the way.

Much more accurate would be to describe it as taking history and shitting all over it.

There's only one reason a person would do that.

Oh thanks for telling me what my argument is and then shooting it down. That's called a straw man, but it seems like logic is only sporadically relevant to you

My case is with your attitude and statements, I don't care who you are aiming it at.

But it doesnt seem to be reserved for the far-right, alt-right or whatever they are called. You explicitly take aim at anyone who identifies as a a conservative or indeed anyone who differs from your opinion or as in the case of myself here it appears to call out your inciteful comments and lump everyone together to demonise.

Where do you think comments like "fight to the death" will lead to?
And what are you going to do about it? or perhaps your just an keyboard warrior so what like to see happening?
You do understand why I used the term "fight to the death", yes?

It's because fascists everywhere have started a war to destroy democracy, destroy tolerance, destroy the notion of objective truth and destroy ordinary people and societies.

Fascists being Trump and his Russian puppetmasters, Bolsonaro, Le Pen, Salvini, Orban, the regime in Poland, Duterte, AfD etc. And the big business agents of fascism like the Kochs and Mercer who are backing up this cancerous ideology.

And because if ordinary people don't sit up and take notice that these b**tards are engaged in such a war, they will win.

You seem just fine with them winning.

Again, you're in with your far right lexicon to make up for your lack of ability to debate. Again, it's a dead giveaway as to what your real opinions are.

Did you spot the straw man you introduced there, by the way?

Of course you did. Classic projection. Erroneously accuse others of strawmanism and then do exactly that yourself.

Tut tut.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 08:21:57 PM
(https://www199.lunapic.com/do-not-link-here-use-hosting-instead/154697796151230358?4111893750)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 08:51:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 08:10:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 07:12:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:45:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide

Unfortunately you're still proving me entirely correct in your assessment of what the right do to try and derail debate.

It's clear you have no real confidence in your arguments.

The logical conclusion of the politics of hatred is genocide, and has history has proved this over and over again.

This fact needs to be hammered home at every opportunity.

A common misconception, likely deliberate, among those who seek to defend the politics of hatred, is that Naziism started with the Holocaust. It didn't. It started with exactly the same thing Trump is doing now - vilification of "others", which was ramped up, but by bit, year by year, until the norms of civilised society broke down to such an extent that genocide became acceptable and logical in the minds of people who didn't stand up to the politics of hatred when it could have been defeated, early on.

Instead of less comparisons to fascism and Naziism in public discourse, we need far more of it, because fascism and Naziism tells us what the logical outcome of the politics of hatred is, and if more people knew their history, they'd know to never embrace that politics of hatred.

There is no good politics of hatred, and no good outcome from it.

These are painful historical lessons from the real world.

What's my argument exactly that I dont have any confidence in?

The only thing that I am discussing is your attitude to opinions that differ from your own or your tribe

Believe me I know about the politics of hatred and you are exhibiting it.

That's a good question. I suppose for me to know what your "argument" is, you'll have to come up with one first.

Unfortunately, the only semblance of an "argument" I can gather from you so far is "those who claim to be tolerant are the real intolerant ones".

A right-wing cliche which is so inane, twisted and historically ignorant as to not merit a response.

"Historically ignorant" is being kind by the way.

Much more accurate would be to describe it as taking history and shitting all over it.

There's only one reason a person would do that.

Oh thanks for telling me what my argument is and then shooting it down. That's called a straw man, but it seems like logic is only sporadically relevant to you

My case is with your attitude and statements, I don't care who you are aiming it at.

But it doesnt seem to be reserved for the far-right, alt-right or whatever they are called. You explicitly take aim at anyone who identifies as a a conservative or indeed anyone who differs from your opinion or as in the case of myself here it appears to call out your inciteful comments and lump everyone together to demonise.

Where do you think comments like "fight to the death" will lead to?
And what are you going to do about it? or perhaps your just an keyboard warrior so what like to see happening?
You do understand why I used the term "fight to the death", yes?

It's because fascists everywhere have started a war to destroy democracy, destroy tolerance, destroy the notion of objective truth and destroy ordinary people and societies.

Fascists being Trump and his Russian puppetmasters, Bolsonaro, Le Pen, Salvini, Orban, the regime in Poland, Duterte, AfD etc. And the big business agents of fascism like the Kochs and Mercer who are backing up this cancerous ideology.

And because if ordinary people don't sit up and take notice that these b**tards are engaged in such a war, they will win.

You seem just fine with them winning.

Again, you're in with your far right lexicon to make up for your lack of ability to debate. Again, it's a dead giveaway as to what your real opinions are.

Did you spot the straw man you introduced there, by the way?

Of course you did. Classic projection. Erroneously accuse others of strawmanism and then do exactly that yourself.

Tut tut.

Tell me all about my strawman

Thanks for knowing by opinions nice to know impressive clairvoyancey however you will be happy to hear it is inaccurate. Tho I am not sure which you prefer being right or having people to demonise

Yeah guilt by association thats right except the only association I have with the movements you are talking about is that I disagree with yourself. Egocentricity at its finest

So by "Fight to the death" and "ruthless defeat" you were talking metaphorically?
To me sounds like you are are really gonna physically fight. To a lot of others that rhetoric sounds the same.
There's someone up the road from you used similar language for years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 09:05:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:33:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on January 08, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
So EasyTiger.....you're telling me that if the number 2 person at Facebook held secret meetings with Trump, shared "research" with him before the election and said that she desperately wanted him to win, you'd be perfectly fine with that?  Just checkin
So Whitey, you're telling me that if an amoral sociopath engaged in a conspiracy with a geopolitical foe/right wing dictatorship, influenced by both financial and sexual kompromat, to win an election, by subverting social media platforms to carry micro-targeted messages to malleable voters, and in the process bringing down or at least actively trying to destroy, in no particular order, the post war western political order, NATO, modern journalism, pluralism, civility, minority groups (including African-Americans, Jewish people and the LGBTQ community), the American constitution, and of course, the planet itself, you'd be perfectly fine with that?

Just checkin.

Man, it must feel good to own the libs.

If that is what the Mueller investigation finds then I'm all for prosecuting those responsible to the fullest extent of the law.......nice deflection by the way

Oh, I learnt from the best. Can't wait for your deflections tonight when your fearless leader tries to declare a national emergency to build his wall. Imagine - a declaration of a non-existent emergency in order to facilitate the building of an imaginary solution to an immigration crisis when immigration at the Mexican border has been at a net deficit for the past two years.

Believe what you want.

Well for one I am not a Trump supporter, though I do support a handful of his ideas

Secondly, I have never advocated building a wall and think it is a ridiculous waste of time and money
Nice wan!! I win tonight's episode of "Whitey Bingo,". Classic..."i am not a trump supporter"
Lol

Belive what you want.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 08:51:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 08:10:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 07:12:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:45:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide

Unfortunately you're still proving me entirely correct in your assessment of what the right do to try and derail debate.

It's clear you have no real confidence in your arguments.

The logical conclusion of the politics of hatred is genocide, and has history has proved this over and over again.

This fact needs to be hammered home at every opportunity.

A common misconception, likely deliberate, among those who seek to defend the politics of hatred, is that Naziism started with the Holocaust. It didn't. It started with exactly the same thing Trump is doing now - vilification of "others", which was ramped up, but by bit, year by year, until the norms of civilised society broke down to such an extent that genocide became acceptable and logical in the minds of people who didn't stand up to the politics of hatred when it could have been defeated, early on.

Instead of less comparisons to fascism and Naziism in public discourse, we need far more of it, because fascism and Naziism tells us what the logical outcome of the politics of hatred is, and if more people knew their history, they'd know to never embrace that politics of hatred.

There is no good politics of hatred, and no good outcome from it.

These are painful historical lessons from the real world.

What's my argument exactly that I dont have any confidence in?

The only thing that I am discussing is your attitude to opinions that differ from your own or your tribe

Believe me I know about the politics of hatred and you are exhibiting it.

That's a good question. I suppose for me to know what your "argument" is, you'll have to come up with one first.

Unfortunately, the only semblance of an "argument" I can gather from you so far is "those who claim to be tolerant are the real intolerant ones".

A right-wing cliche which is so inane, twisted and historically ignorant as to not merit a response.

"Historically ignorant" is being kind by the way.

Much more accurate would be to describe it as taking history and shitting all over it.

There's only one reason a person would do that.

Oh thanks for telling me what my argument is and then shooting it down. That's called a straw man, but it seems like logic is only sporadically relevant to you

My case is with your attitude and statements, I don't care who you are aiming it at.

But it doesnt seem to be reserved for the far-right, alt-right or whatever they are called. You explicitly take aim at anyone who identifies as a a conservative or indeed anyone who differs from your opinion or as in the case of myself here it appears to call out your inciteful comments and lump everyone together to demonise.

Where do you think comments like "fight to the death" will lead to?
And what are you going to do about it? or perhaps your just an keyboard warrior so what like to see happening?
You do understand why I used the term "fight to the death", yes?

It's because fascists everywhere have started a war to destroy democracy, destroy tolerance, destroy the notion of objective truth and destroy ordinary people and societies.

Fascists being Trump and his Russian puppetmasters, Bolsonaro, Le Pen, Salvini, Orban, the regime in Poland, Duterte, AfD etc. And the big business agents of fascism like the Kochs and Mercer who are backing up this cancerous ideology.

And because if ordinary people don't sit up and take notice that these b**tards are engaged in such a war, they will win.

You seem just fine with them winning.

Again, you're in with your far right lexicon to make up for your lack of ability to debate. Again, it's a dead giveaway as to what your real opinions are.

Did you spot the straw man you introduced there, by the way?

Of course you did. Classic projection. Erroneously accuse others of strawmanism and then do exactly that yourself.

Tut tut.

Tell me all about my strawman

Thanks for knowing by opinions nice to know impressive clairvoyancey however you will be happy to hear it is inaccurate. Tho I am not sure which you prefer being right or having people to demonise

Yeah guilt by association thats right except the only association I have with the movements you are talking about is that I disagree with yourself. Egocentricity at its finest

So by "Fight to the death" and "ruthless defeat" you were talking metaphorically?
To me sounds like you are are really gonna physically fight. To a lot of others that rhetoric sounds the same.
There's someone up the road from you used similar language for years

What do you mean by "take aim at"?

Be specific now, and tell me what your problem with my "rhetoric" is.

In terms of "fight to the death", when talking about what fascists desire, I think its very clear that inflicting physical death on others is one of the things fascists are very keen on.

History certianly bears that out.

Donald Trump openly courts support from and gives tacit support to Nazis, and tacit support to Nazis is real support, because there is no such a thing as tacit support for such an evil ideology. He openly courts support from and gives support to murderous fascist regimes around the world. He openly incites hatred against people of a certain religion, against immigrants, and against trans people and dog whistles hatred against gay people. He courts support from and gives support to an organisation that is effectively a facilitator for domestic terrorism, the NRA - 13,000 people a year die due to gun violence in the US.

So yes, the threat that many people face of physical death at the hands pro-Trump fascists is something everybody should consider very seriously.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 10:41:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 08:51:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 08:10:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 07:12:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:45:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 02:53:59 PM
"Polarisation" and "both sides" is the language of legitimisation, though.

There are two sides alright - the side that has a reality-based worldview and the side whose worldview is based on outright denial of reality.

These "two sides" can also be described as "non-fascist" and "fascist", respectively.

Only one "side" is legitimate.

The other "side" needs to be faced down ruthlessly and defeated, because its aim is to destroy democracy, destroy the concepts of knowledge and truth, and to destroy ordinary people and societies.

Are you being ironic here ?? If not .....:o :o :o

The worrying thing is that when people identify as belonging to a side they do not denounce inflammatory talk like this.

You and a few others I'm not surprised at..... but there is at least one (or two) poster here who I would have thought more from.

Just wonder where I would lie in being "ruthlessly defeated" as I would not believe I belong to any "side" in American politics.
I also wonder where my friends and family would end up as some of them identify as belonging to a "side"

I suppose tho its easier and simpler to categorise into good and bad, and then demonise or cheer on like its football match from your arm chair in a Dublin when when you don't have to interact with people. Life and people are infinitely more complicated than good and bad.

I see this type of attitude in social media frequently (not so much in real life), and I can tell you from my personal experience it doesn't lead to a good place   
I'm not being ironic at all.

There is a fundamental fight to the death here between the politics of tolerance and truth and the politics of intolerance and hatred.

Trump and the Republican party have made it perfectly clear which side of the fence they stand on.

What you are saying is that the those who believe in the politics of tolerance should be tolerant of intolerance, even if it means their destruction.

That would be to say that one should be tolerant of Naziism.

This is genuinely what far right populist fascism of the Trump variety believes.

The paradox of genuine tolerance is that one can never be tolerant of genuine intolerance, because it is a recipe for the destruction of people's rights, and ultimately, carried to its logical conclusion, genocide.

Unforunately you just prove me right in your assesment of how the right go about framing things with your pathetic little attempt to troll me. Such a dead giveaway that you have to resort to such.

In the real world, by the way, it's the communities most exposed to different cultures who tend to be the most tolerant, while those who are most insular tend to be the most infested with irrational hatred.


"Ruthlessly defeated", "A fight to the death", "genuine intolerance" your right the only logical conclusion is genocide

Unfortunately you're still proving me entirely correct in your assessment of what the right do to try and derail debate.

It's clear you have no real confidence in your arguments.

The logical conclusion of the politics of hatred is genocide, and has history has proved this over and over again.

This fact needs to be hammered home at every opportunity.

A common misconception, likely deliberate, among those who seek to defend the politics of hatred, is that Naziism started with the Holocaust. It didn't. It started with exactly the same thing Trump is doing now - vilification of "others", which was ramped up, but by bit, year by year, until the norms of civilised society broke down to such an extent that genocide became acceptable and logical in the minds of people who didn't stand up to the politics of hatred when it could have been defeated, early on.

Instead of less comparisons to fascism and Naziism in public discourse, we need far more of it, because fascism and Naziism tells us what the logical outcome of the politics of hatred is, and if more people knew their history, they'd know to never embrace that politics of hatred.

There is no good politics of hatred, and no good outcome from it.

These are painful historical lessons from the real world.

What's my argument exactly that I dont have any confidence in?

The only thing that I am discussing is your attitude to opinions that differ from your own or your tribe

Believe me I know about the politics of hatred and you are exhibiting it.

That's a good question. I suppose for me to know what your "argument" is, you'll have to come up with one first.

Unfortunately, the only semblance of an "argument" I can gather from you so far is "those who claim to be tolerant are the real intolerant ones".

A right-wing cliche which is so inane, twisted and historically ignorant as to not merit a response.

"Historically ignorant" is being kind by the way.

Much more accurate would be to describe it as taking history and shitting all over it.

There's only one reason a person would do that.

Oh thanks for telling me what my argument is and then shooting it down. That's called a straw man, but it seems like logic is only sporadically relevant to you

My case is with your attitude and statements, I don't care who you are aiming it at.

But it doesnt seem to be reserved for the far-right, alt-right or whatever they are called. You explicitly take aim at anyone who identifies as a a conservative or indeed anyone who differs from your opinion or as in the case of myself here it appears to call out your inciteful comments and lump everyone together to demonise.

Where do you think comments like "fight to the death" will lead to?
And what are you going to do about it? or perhaps your just an keyboard warrior so what like to see happening?
You do understand why I used the term "fight to the death", yes?

It's because fascists everywhere have started a war to destroy democracy, destroy tolerance, destroy the notion of objective truth and destroy ordinary people and societies.

Fascists being Trump and his Russian puppetmasters, Bolsonaro, Le Pen, Salvini, Orban, the regime in Poland, Duterte, AfD etc. And the big business agents of fascism like the Kochs and Mercer who are backing up this cancerous ideology.

And because if ordinary people don't sit up and take notice that these b**tards are engaged in such a war, they will win.

You seem just fine with them winning.

Again, you're in with your far right lexicon to make up for your lack of ability to debate. Again, it's a dead giveaway as to what your real opinions are.

Did you spot the straw man you introduced there, by the way?

Of course you did. Classic projection. Erroneously accuse others of strawmanism and then do exactly that yourself.

Tut tut.

Tell me all about my strawman

Thanks for knowing by opinions nice to know impressive clairvoyancey however you will be happy to hear it is inaccurate. Tho I am not sure which you prefer being right or having people to demonise

Yeah guilt by association thats right except the only association I have with the movements you are talking about is that I disagree with yourself. Egocentricity at its finest

So by "Fight to the death" and "ruthless defeat" you were talking metaphorically?
To me sounds like you are are really gonna physically fight. To a lot of others that rhetoric sounds the same.
There's someone up the road from you used similar language for years

What do you mean by "take aim at"?

Be specific now, and tell me what your problem with my "rhetoric" is.

In terms of "fight to the death", when talking about what fascists desire, I think its very clear that inflicting physical death on others is one of the things fascists are very keen on.

History certianly bears that out.

Donald Trump openly courts support from and gives tacit support to Nazis, and tacit support to Nazis is real support, because there is no such a thing as tacit support for such an evil ideology. He openly courts support from and gives support to murderous fascist regimes around the world. He openly incites hatred against people of a certain religion, against immigrants, and against trans people and dog whistles hatred against gay people. He courts support from and gives support to an organisation that is effectively a facilitator for domestic terrorism, the NRA - 13,000 people a year die due to gun violence in the US.

So yes, the threat that many people face of physical death at the hands pro-Trump fascists is something everybody should consider very seriously.

BY take aim at I mean you constantly berate those who disagree with you that they are prejudice in some form or another, that they are stupid, or categorised into various groupings that you dogmatically oppose such as antivaxers, alt-right, brexiteers,.... This is known as ad hominen, or playing the man, there is a rule on this forum against it (not that anyone pays any attention to it).
But by doing so you are not discussing the point and the endless barrage of insults creates a siege mentality, your either with me or against me.

Specifically in your retoric
Incitement: You use terms such as "fight to the death" and "ruthlessly defeat" they remind me of recuriment campaigns for countless ideological wars over the past 200 years. Taken as you write it mean that if we dont physically fight we will be killed.

Division: Talking about sides and no talk about bringing the other side over just demonise them. Once you dehumanise other human being you are facilitating violence against them

Lack of compromise/dissent: Your opinion is treated like an axiom, if anyone differs from it in anyway they are automatically wrong and thrown to the lions and are subject to all your tactics aforementioned

Horrific conclusions: You claim the worst possible outcome (genocide, murder) will occur if we dont agree with you and get on board with whatever you want. We are not inevitable on some apocalyptic slippery slope and adhering to an aggressive attitude, dehumanising attitude like yours is less likely to stop it than to assist it.


All in all you just need to chill out, breathe and think about where you are going without the vitirol of others.
Just because other people have irrational opinions doesnt mean you have to have one.
Read some books with differing opinions of your own..... with a genuine open mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2019, 11:13:35 PM
Does he know or has he ever spoke to a big city cop who faces life and death situations every day of the week?

Does he know or has he ever spoken with someone who conducts raids for ICE who could tell him about the absolute fvckin scumbags who are being shielded by Democrats from deportation?

Does he know or has he spoken with one single person who has served a combat mission in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Has he ever filed a tax return or had a CPA explain the new tax laws to him?


My guess is he would answer no to all four questions, but yet he's willing to come in here and disparage and vilify people who have opinions have been formed from living here for decades.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 11:40:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 10:41:28 PM


BY take aim at I mean you constantly berate those who disagree with you that they are prejudice in some form or another, that they are stupid, or categorised into various groupings that you dogmatically oppose such as antivaxers, alt-right, brexiteers,.... This is known as ad hominen, or playing the man, there is a rule on this forum against it (not that anyone pays any attention to it).
But by doing so you are not discussing the point and the endless barrage of insults creates a siege mentality, your either with me or against me.
So you think anti-vaxxers, the alt-right and crackpot Brexiteers don't deserve to be berated?

How have you come to this conclusion?

Is it through reading their considered debate in support of their arguments - which is none - because it doesn't exist?

Would you argue with somebody who continually said gravity doesn't exist?

Now, in terms of playing the man, you're one of the masters here. Like other posters who claim to be "conservative", you continually throw in passive agressive trolling comments in your posts which serve no other purpose than to insult and wind up the person you're debating with. Like other "conservative" poster, you continually misrepresent and twist the arguments of those you argue with.

And then you start claiming imagined victimhood.

Whatever happened to your love for "free speech"?

Like pretty much all other right-wing  "free speech warriors", your support for free speech ends the second you get exposed.


QuoteSpecifically in your retoric
Incitement: You use terms such as "fight to the death" and "ruthlessly defeat" they remind me of recuriment campaigns for countless ideological wars over the past 200 years. Taken as you write it mean that if we dont physically fight we will be killed.
I find it very interesting that you have a problem with my use of these terms, yet don't appear to have a problem with the actual Nazis who have decided to fan the flames of racial hatred both in the US and in Europe, and are quite willing to create a situation in which it becomes normal and logical to kill large numbers of innocent people.

It's a curious feature of mainstream "conservative" thought that it's never the bullies who are the problem, it's those who speak out against bullies.

See Rashida Tlaib's comments about "impeach the motherfucker". See the laughable Republican concept of the "war on civility".

"Conservative logic" is to defend the bullies. Never mind that Mr. Trump has a lifetime of of vile, misogynist, racist, sectarian hate speech behind him. For people like you, those who speak out against him are the problem.

Orewell, how are ya.

QuoteDivision: Talking about sides and no talk about bringing the other side over just demonise them. Once you dehumanise other human being you are facilitating violence against them
There are two sides in this fight. One side is on the side of reality. The other side denies reality and denies objective truth.

Again, your Orwellian inversion of reality is very much in evidence.


QuoteLack of compromise/dissent: Your opinion is treated like an axiom, if anyone differs from it in anyway they are automatically wrong and thrown to the lions and are subject to all your tactics aforementioned
Fascism and Naziism should never be compromised with in any way.

QuoteHorrific conclusions: You claim the worst possible outcome (genocide, murder) will occur if we dont agree with you and get on board with whatever you want. We are not inevitable on some apocalyptic slippery slope and adhering to an aggressive attitude, dehumanising attitude like yours is less likely to stop it than to assist it.

Again, I didn't say that. You introducde yet another straw man because you can't debate honestly. I said the logical conclusion of the politics of fascist hatred, if it is allowed to take root and spread its cancerous idology, is genocide. Which it is. Hostory has proved this over and over again. That you are denying this says so much about your real views, doesn't it?

QuoteAll in all you just need to chill out, breathe and think about where you are going without the vitirol of others.
Just because other people have irrational opinions doesnt mean you have to have one.
Read some books with differing opinions of your own..... with a genuine open mind.

My opinion is entirely rational, thanks.

Rationality has no truck with fanatical fascist hatred of the sort we see being propagated by demagogues with nothing to offer anybody except misery.

But sure, you're alright, Jack, therefore, bigotry and hatred which doesn't affect you is just fine.

The real world, as long as you don't have to live in it.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 11:45:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 11:13:35 PM
Does he know or has he ever spoke to a big city cop who faces life and death situations every day of the week?

Does he know or has he ever spoken with someone who conducts raids for ICE who could tell him about the absolute fvckin scumbags who are being shielded by Democrats from deportation?

Does he know or has he spoken with one single person who has served a combat mission in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Has he ever filed a tax return or had a CPA explain the new tax laws to him?


My guess is he would answer no to all four questions, but yet he's willing to come in here and disparage and vilify people who have opinions have been formed from living here for decades.
You say you've lived there for decades.

So why then, do your views come across as somebody who has never left the house for the last 40 years and whose only contact with the outside world is listening to Rush Limbaugh and waching Fox News?

You appear to live an extremely sheltered life indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 09, 2019, 12:09:04 AM

You can head down every logical fallacy you want with me. But at the end of the day you need to look in a mirror you damage what you profess to support with your playground antics

Tho you did stumble on something here...

Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 11:40:14 PM

Would you argue with somebody who continually said gravity doesn't exist?


No I'd probably agree with them and see what they had to say about space time and relativity.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 12:12:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 11:45:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2019, 11:13:35 PM
Does he know or has he ever spoke to a big city cop who faces life and death situations every day of the week?

Does he know or has he ever spoken with someone who conducts raids for ICE who could tell him about the absolute fvckin scumbags who are being shielded by Democrats from deportation?

Does he know or has he spoken with one single person who has served a combat mission in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Has he ever filed a tax return or had a CPA explain the new tax laws to him?


My guess is he would answer no to all four questions, but yet he's willing to come in here and disparage and vilify people who have opinions have been formed from living here for decades.
You say you've lived there for decades.

So why then, do your views come across as somebody who has never left the house for the last 40 years and whose only contact with the outside world is listening to Rush Limbaugh and waching Fox News?

You appear to live an extremely sheltered life indeed.

So the answer is no then I take it!


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 12:40:14 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 09, 2019, 12:09:04 AM

You can head down every logical fallacy you want with me. But at the end of the day you need to look in a mirror you damage what you profess to support with your playground antics

Tho you did stumble on something here...

Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 11:40:14 PM

Would you argue with somebody who continually said gravity doesn't exist?


No I'd probably agree with them and see what they had to say about space time and relativity.
It wouldn't surprise if you genuinely would agree with them, to be honest.

As a poster, you have to know the sort of mentality you're dealing with in others.

Continue on with the "ad hominems" you claim to so despise and your passive agressive trolling, by all means.

I've been reading internet discussion forums long enough to know that the sort of person who likes to throw in the term "logical fallacy" generally hasn't a breeze what they're talking about, by the way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 09, 2019, 12:52:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 12:40:14 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 09, 2019, 12:09:04 AM

You can head down every logical fallacy you want with me. But at the end of the day you need to look in a mirror you damage what you profess to support with your playground antics

Tho you did stumble on something here...

Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2019, 11:40:14 PM

Would you argue with somebody who continually said gravity doesn't exist?


No I'd probably agree with them and see what they had to say about space time and relativity.
It wouldn't surprise if you genuinely would agree with them, to be honest.

As a poster, you have to know the sort of mentality you're dealing with in others.

Continue on with the "ad hominems" you claim to so despise and your passive agressive trolling, by all means.

I've been reading internet discussion forums long enough to know that the sort of person who likes to throw in the term "logical fallacy" generally hasn't a breeze what they're talking about, by the way.

LOL  ;D ;D Not into physics are you?

AS a poster you need to deal with words facts and points, nothing else in a debate, who it comes from is irrelevant. If you cant discuss the point they make without referencing them then you have no errand discussing it.

Yes I am sure you hate logical fallacies being brought up alright you cant up two sentences together without breaking one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:10:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.


"That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred" (of Trump)


Your slander of the Border Patrol Agents comes right from the playbook you claim to despise
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 09, 2019, 03:31:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.

On the contrary you are in the bubble that your opinion is dogma, your analogy with gravity demonstrates this perfectly.

Instead of asking why one may believe gravity doesn't exist you are unwilling to explore why someone else may think that it doesnt and without blinking an eye you vilify me for perhaps having that belief. A good example of both definitions of Ignorance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:10:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.


"That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred" (of Trump)


Your slander of the Border Patrol Agents comes right from the playbook you claim to despise
You mean the people that have no problem with dehydrating youngsters to death and sticking them in cages?

Just a little legal tip for you: slander can only occur where people have a good name to lose.

It doesn't apply to the US Gestapo.

Oh, and there's no such an offence as slander in this country.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:06:42 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 09, 2019, 03:31:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.

On the contrary you are in the bubble that your opinion is dogma, your analogy with gravity demonstrates this perfectly.

Instead of asking why one may believe gravity doesn't exist you are unwilling to explore why someone else may think that it doesnt and without blinking an eye you vilify me for perhaps having that belief. A good example of both definitions of Ignorance.
You'll have to do a bit better than "I know you are but what am I?".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:10:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.


"That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred" (of Trump)


Your slander of the Border Patrol Agents comes right from the playbook you claim to despise
You mean the people that have no problem with dehydrating youngsters to death and sticking them in cages?

Just a little legal tip for you: slander can only occur where people have a good name to lose.

It doesn't apply to the US Gestapo.

Oh, and there's no such an offence as slander in this country.

Haha-Good man Sid-keep it up

By the way, are you for open borders?

If you're not, how do you propose we secure our border from the hundreds of thousand who cross illegally every year?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2019, 01:31:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:10:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.


"That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred" (of Trump)


Your slander of the Border Patrol Agents comes right from the playbook you claim to despise
You mean the people that have no problem with dehydrating youngsters to death and sticking them in cages?

Just a little legal tip for you: slander can only occur where people have a good name to lose.

It doesn't apply to the US Gestapo.

Oh, and there's no such an offence as slander in this country.

That's a bit much Sid.

I've worked with a few CBP agents - they were to a man/woman decent people who took their job seriously and often suffered injuries, just like any law enforcement officers, when dealing with problematic travellers.

Obviously, as with any body of people, there will be bad apples and I'm sure arseholes filling some of the political appointments, while the lack of support from the administration in terms of facilities and resources to deal with all of these family groups is doing them no favours whatsoever down on the Mexican border, but that doesn't render them as the modern-day equivalent of the Nazi secret police.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:35:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2019, 01:31:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:10:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.


"That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred" (of Trump)


Your slander of the Border Patrol Agents comes right from the playbook you claim to despise
You mean the people that have no problem with dehydrating youngsters to death and sticking them in cages?

Just a little legal tip for you: slander can only occur where people have a good name to lose.

It doesn't apply to the US Gestapo.

Oh, and there's no such an offence as slander in this country.

That's a bit much Sid.

I've worked with a few CBP agents - they were to a man/woman decent people who took their job seriously and often suffered injuries, just like any law enforcement officers, when dealing with problematic travellers.

Obviously, as with any body of people, there will be bad apples and I'm sure arseholes filling some of the political appointments, while the lack of support from the administration in terms of facilities and resources to deal with all of these family groups is doing them no favours whatsoever down on the Mexican border, but that doesn't render them as the modern-day equivalent of the Nazi secret police.
I'm sure there were "decent people" in the Gestapo as well, or something.

The banality of evil.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true

The Great Lie of Conservatism
The philosophical foundation of conservatism is a template for exploitation, argues Drew Magary, and it's time to stop treating it as half our country's guiding principles.

BY DREW MAGARY
March 21, 2018

They're all dead now. All the unofficial fathers of modern conservatism: William F. Buckley, Russell Kirk, Milton Friedman, Ronald Reagan. All of the self-anointed torch bearers for Edmund Burke are dead, and you might be tempted to think that these men (always men) would be aghast at what the Republican party has become under Donald Trump. Trump is, after all, a graceless, ignorant sack of shit. Whereas the forebears of his party were men of principle. Good men. Strong men. The kind of men you could have a whiskey and civilized argument with! These were the mythical good conservatives.

And being a "good" conservative is a very marketable thing to be right now. It's done wonders for Senators like John McCain and Jeff Flake, both of whom have earned lavish praise for offering the occasional STERN REBUKE to Trump and doing little more. And it's made stars out of columnists such as Bret Stephens, who was hired off his #NeverTrump cred and who has since spent his tenure at the New York Times taunting college students and defending Woody Allen.

Because we live in a two-party system, there is an eternal need for legacy media outlets like the Times and CNN to be "balanced," to give conservatism a platform to rebut all those dirty, screeching liberals. It's as if the Times strives to recreate every hallway conversation on The West Wing by dishing out a healthy salary to any conservative writer who imitates a William F. Buckley fart from 1971 like it's a bird call. It's a nice thought, this balance. And lord knows that liberals (like me) have a habit of shouting down those that they don't particularly agree with.

But here's why I do that from time to time: it's because conservatism is a big f**king lie.

This take has already been issued, but Trump is hardly an anomaly among Republicans. He is not some hideous byproduct of conservatism gone astray. There are shades of Trump in every Republican president of my lifetime. In Reagan, there is Trump's vacuous celebrity. In George H.W. Bush, there is a touch of Trump's signature horniness. In George W. Bush, there are Trump's malapropisms, his disdain for intellectuals, and a rich Northern boy's need to look and sound tough. In all three men, there is Trump's steadfast belief that the USA is exceptional, a literal gift from God and a shining beacon to the world. And my lifetime doesn't even cover Nixon, who could claim Trump as his spiritual love child.


Trump is a blunter instrument of conservatism than those men, but he's a conservative all the same. In fact, he's such a useful instrument of the cause that legislators under him will forgive virtually ANY sin (and there are many!). Trump is a proven liar, but on a grander scale he's the embodiment of a lie that conservatives have been peddling for decades.

That is because the entire philosophical foundation of conservatism is a template for exploitation. William F. Buckley was a rich asswipe with an affected accent who never had to worry about money a day in his life, and yet he remains a hero of the conservative movement for founding National Review and establishing the credo that the magazine, and the conservative movement as a whole, "stands athwart history, yelling Stop." It is the stupidest credo ever devised, but it makes perfect sense coming from a man whose life stood to benefit in every way from the preservation of the status quo. And boy, did Buckley benefit. He ran a magazine. He hosted a TV show. He went to fabulous parties. He died with an estate valued in the tens of millions of dollars (FUN FACT: he specifically omitted his illegitimate grandchild by name from that estate, saying in his will that the boy was "predeceased" to him).

There is no universally agreed-upon set of principles for modern conservativism, but you can make a rough list of them from both Buckley's NR mission statement and from the ten principles of conservatism laid out by author Russell Kirk, whom Buckley revered. Now, like most conservative writings, these principles are written in the kind of highfalutin dipshit-ese designed specifically to impress any self-declared "enfant terrible" in your school's debate club. It's all insufferably pompous. But if you plow through all of Kirk's bone dry copy, you will see the blueprint for the con laid out. There must be a moral order, although whose morals should be adhered to isn't quite clear. You cannot create a Utopian society, so there's no point in trying. Change is bad and dangerous. Inequality is not only inevitable but necessary. Men should only count on their fellow man for help, and not on any kind of state-created support system. And "the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human Passions," which makes it clear that Kirk doesn't like too much of the sexy business going on.

Finally, there's a tenth principle:

Tenth, the thinking conservative understands-that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society. The conservative is not opposed to social improvement, although he doubts whether there is any.

"He doubts whether there is any." Think about the depth of cynicism and ignorance required for you to believe such a thing. It's not hard to think about that statement in tandem with every Republican lawmaker throwing their hands up impotently in the wake of a school shooting. I know Trump is currently president, but look around you. There is so much longer to go, but social progress is not an illusion, especially if you compare the world now to how it was centuries ago. It seems fairly obvious here that Kirk doesn't see much room for social improvement because he's a white dude whose life could not be improved upon.

The only way you can doubt that social progress can ever be made is if, quietly, you do not believe that the progress that has been made—particularly for women, gays, and people of color—is an "improvement" at all. You'll notice a lot of important things missing from those ten principles. Kirk never addresses racism, or sexism, or environmental issues. There is only the timelessness of conservativism to act as a bulwark against hysterical liberals who, I dunno, might want a few laws against police brutality put on the books. The concerns of the downtrodden are not only ignored, they aren't even heard.

Buckley's own manifesto for the National Review is similarly lacking in any acknowledgement of life outside the bubble of a well-off man. In fact, the bulk of it rails against "social engineers," "intellectual cliques" (rich coming from THAT guy), "labor unions... with doctrinaire socialist objectives," "satanic utopianism," "world government," and any other potential external challenge to the institutions that benefited him so handsomely. Buckley also rejects the idea of bipartisanship outright. He writes, "The most alarming single danger to the American political system lies in unreasoned slogans as 'national unity,' 'middle-of-the-road,' 'progressivism,' and 'bipartisanship.'" Now read that and tell me you that isn't where Mitch McConnell got his obstructionist, "go f**k yourself" style of leadership from, and tell me why Democrats should ever give Republicans the benefit of the doubt.

It's all there. All the bad of the Republican Party today is the clear fruit of these principles: the blithe disinterest in progress, the complete lack of recognition of injustice, the lionization of intractability, the hatred of working government, the hilarious lack of creativity, and the Pence-ian lust to control everyone's "passions." There are blind spots within these principles that you could drive a truck through. They're not unlike the same blind spots to the oppressed that the Founding Fathers had when they drafted the Constitution, so no wonder conservatives are so eager to adhere to that document literally.

This is the kind of faulty philosophy that resulted in Buckley requiring a luxurious ten years to walk back his notorious pro-segregation editorial "Why The South Must Prevail", and why he claimed to support equal rights for women but not the actual machinery needed to achieve them. It is how Grover Norquist and his other think tank buddies came to believe that government is the most vulnerable spot for corruption in society, which simply isn't true in an America where corporations have been granted both the same rights as actual human beings and unfettered access to the levers of power. It is how conservatives have come to view all men as created equal with NO acknowledgement or care that all men do not come from equal standing.

In fact, if you go by Kirk and Buckley, any attempt—even by popular vote—to help level the playing field is actually immoral, and a quick path leading us to the evergreen bogeyman of a liberal dystopia. This nightmare comes in many forms, but usually takes the shape of either Soviet-style Communism, a giant Manson Family commune, or (gasp!) corrupt black politicians running things. If you ever wanna keep a conservative up all night, just show him a supercut of every Clay Davis scene from The Wire.

I grew up during the downfall of the Soviet Union, so I understand why men from the generation before me are so wary of Communist and socialist ideas, and why they endlessly worship Reagan for helping precipitate its downfall (one author created a set of Reagan-style bedrock principles, and they are as equally blind and dated as the others). I am a greedy capitalist at heart, and I do not like the prospect of a Commie Russia endgame any more than they did. But these guys were so obsessed with how liberalism might go sour that they seem to have never once considered how their own philosophy could do likewise.

Because it has. Today's Republican Party is nothing more than a gross celebration of inequality. It is loose collective of yahoos and rich assholes and fringe libertarians and pious hypocrites whose only shared trait is their vindictiveness. You can see it in Trump's fervent undoing of every Obama-era policy. And all the "good" conservatives out there—be they corporate raiders like Mitt Romney, or Bush-era warmongers like David Frum, or even pleasantly niche conservative thinkers like Daniel Larison—who think Buckley would be appalled by Trump are wrong. The old f**ker's ghost would be right there with Trump to stomp on the brake pedal of American progress. His own unreadable magazine handed its spine to Trump long ago, and I see no reason why Buckley himself would have been any different. This may not be [Rubio voice] quite how he envisioned it, but it's still very much the byproduct of conservative purity.

And so it's long past time to stop giving credence to conservatism as a whole, to treat it as the failed intellectual exercise it has proven to be. Look where it's gotten us—endless war, mass incarceration, mass shootings, mass opioid death, mass inequality, for-profit schools and jails, virtually legalized white collar fraud, open racism, suppressed voting rights—and tell me it's worth anything. Tell me this wasn't the PLAN all along, so that the comfortable can remain comfortable. I say this as someone who has seen liberalism fail in all sorts of predictable, hilarious ways. The Democrats are a perpetual mess. Occupy Wall Street fell apart thanks to its complete lack of leadership. Opening a small business in certain cities requires enough paperwork to make you kill yourself. Liberalism isn't without its faults. But the ideal of a liberal democratic America that features things like, oh, I dunno, free education and free health care, maybe even free housing and a basic guaranteed income? That is not a pipe dream. That is not impractical. That is not a slippery slope to becoming East Germany.

Quite the contrary, it is conservatism that has led us to the wildly corrupt klepto-state we currently live in, with Republicans serving their corporate masters and centrist Democratic leadership not far behind, and ALWAYS searching in vain for conservative approval. Communist Russia isn't a threat any longer, but a conservative capitalist Russia, which Trump seems hellbent on replicating here, very much is. So it's time. America is the fastest-moving country in history, and ought to pride itself on that quality. Indulging conservatism and treating it as one equal half of America's guiding principles is a waste of time. William F. Buckley is dead. And we're not gonna get anywhere until his worldview is finally discredited and left in the ash bin, where it belongs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2019, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:10:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.


"That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred" (of Trump)


Your slander of the Border Patrol Agents comes right from the playbook you claim to despise
You mean the people that have no problem with dehydrating youngsters to death and sticking them in cages?

Just a little legal tip for you: slander can only occur where people have a good name to lose.

It doesn't apply to the US Gestapo.

Oh, and there's no such an offence as slander in this country.

Haha-Good man Sid-keep it up

By the way, are you for open borders?

If you're not, how do you propose we secure our border from the hundreds of thousand who cross illegally every year?

Advanced Rossie sensors in Headford and Tubbercurry
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:53:19 PM
You do realize it was Democrats in the South  who were against desegragation ?

And that it was Winston Churchill who stood up to your buddies the Nazis?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2019, 01:58:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:35:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2019, 01:31:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:10:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.


"That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred" (of Trump)


Your slander of the Border Patrol Agents comes right from the playbook you claim to despise
You mean the people that have no problem with dehydrating youngsters to death and sticking them in cages?

Just a little legal tip for you: slander can only occur where people have a good name to lose.

It doesn't apply to the US Gestapo.

Oh, and there's no such an offence as slander in this country.

That's a bit much Sid.

I've worked with a few CBP agents - they were to a man/woman decent people who took their job seriously and often suffered injuries, just like any law enforcement officers, when dealing with problematic travellers.

Obviously, as with any body of people, there will be bad apples and I'm sure arseholes filling some of the political appointments, while the lack of support from the administration in terms of facilities and resources to deal with all of these family groups is doing them no favours whatsoever down on the Mexican border, but that doesn't render them as the modern-day equivalent of the Nazi secret police.
I'm sure there were "decent people" in the Gestapo as well, or something.

The banality of evil.

So next thing we will have the CBP Einsatzgruppen division enlisting locals to help them round up and execute all these asylum seekers?

I'm not saying there aren't problems. There clearly are, and this president would rather exacerbate them so he can use these people as political footballs, but the people on the ground don't make the decisions about funding and resources and how many asylum seekers to process. I guess the average discouraged officer could resign in protest, but how many people is that REALLY a realistic option for. And if you DID have mass resignations in protest, what then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 02:00:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2019, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:10:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:02:13 AM
When I facetiously posted that you probably didn't think gravity existed, I didn't expect you to straight up vindicate my deliberate stereotype of you, but thanks for doing so anyway.

Expect lies, lies and more lies in Trump's little "address" tonight.

That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred.

It must be wonderful to exist in a little bubble where reality can be entirely dispensed with.


"That's what fascists do - distort and outright deny reality, and promote a fictional view of the world based on outright hatred" (of Trump)


Your slander of the Border Patrol Agents comes right from the playbook you claim to despise
You mean the people that have no problem with dehydrating youngsters to death and sticking them in cages?

Just a little legal tip for you: slander can only occur where people have a good name to lose.

It doesn't apply to the US Gestapo.

Oh, and there's no such an offence as slander in this country.

Haha-Good man Sid-keep it up

By the way, are you for open borders?

If you're not, how do you propose we secure our border from the hundreds of thousand who cross illegally every year?

Advanced Rossie sensors in Headford and Tubbercurry

It's great with the new Motorway to Dublin that we barely have time to dirty our shoes passing through Roscommon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2019, 02:02:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:53:19 PM
You do realize it was Democrats in the South  who were against desegragation ?

And that it was Winston Churchill who stood up to your buddies the Nazis?

Those Democrats were conservatives.

It's no coincidence that as the Democratic Party embraced desegregation and civil rights and support for the poor, the south went to the GOP, just like LBJ predicted.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 02:09:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:53:19 PM
You do realize it was Democrats in the South  who were against desegragation ?

And that it was Winston Churchill who stood up to your buddies the Nazis?
It's entirely unsurprising you didn't know that Democrats and Republicans swapped positions in the 100 years after the US civil war, a process which was effectively completed by the Civil Rights Act, when southern Democrats joined the Republicans en masse precisely because it was the Democrats who brought in the Civil Rights Act, and Barry Goldwater opposed it so bitterly.

But of course, you would walk into making the most obvious misreading of the article - the author didn't say that Democrats were always the "liberal" party in the US and the Republicans were always the "conservative party", as you misread it.

That happens when you're historically ignorant.

I'm also unsurprised you didn't know the Republicans tried to appease Hitler, like the Tories had done before Churchill - who only operated with the full backing and participation in national government of Attlee's Labour party.

So, in your little attempt to defend "Conservatism's" continual fundamental misreading of history, you have just proved the author correct, and displayed your own historical ignorance.

Keep it up, as you like to say to yourself, because I'm sure you still have a vast reservoir of historical ignorance to tap yet.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o
That article clearly touched a raw nerve with you, didn't it?

I'm surprised it did - since your reflex reaction on this forum has always been to defend any old sort of abhorrent racist, misogynist bigotry.

You appear to be trapped between two different forms of cowardice - the cowardice of your actual views, and the cowardice to not admit to holding them.

I'm surprised somebody like yourself whose views appear to be gleaned entirely from the National Enquirer would be so snooty and sneering about sources, by the way.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 02:09:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:53:19 PM
You do realize it was Democrats in the South  who were against desegragation ?

And that it was Winston Churchill who stood up to your buddies the Nazis?
It's entirely unsurprising you didn't know that Democrats and Republicans swapped positions in the 100 years after the US civil war, a process which was effectively completed by the Civil Rights Act, when southern Democrats joined the Republicans en masse precisely because it was the Democrats who brought in the Civil Rights Act, and Barry Goldwater opposed it so bitterly.

But of course, you would walk into making the most obvious misreading of the article - the author didn't say that Democrats were always the "liberal" party in the US and the Republicans were always the "conservative party", as you misread it.

That happens when you're historically ignorant.

I'm also unsurprised you didn't know the Republicans tried to appease Hitler, like the Tories had done before Churchill - who only operated with the full backing and participation in national government of Attlee's Labour party.

So, in your little attempt to defend "Conservatism's" continual fundamental misreading of history, you have just proved the author correct, and displayed your own historical ignorance.

Keep it up, as you like to say to yourself, because I'm sure you still have a vast reservoir of historical ignorance to tap yet.


Ever hear of Joe kennedy?

(And for its worth I have a 2:1 honors degree in history)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 02:09:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 01:53:19 PM
You do realize it was Democrats in the South  who were against desegragation ?

And that it was Winston Churchill who stood up to your buddies the Nazis?
It's entirely unsurprising you didn't know that Democrats and Republicans swapped positions in the 100 years after the US civil war, a process which was effectively completed by the Civil Rights Act, when southern Democrats joined the Republicans en masse precisely because it was the Democrats who brought in the Civil Rights Act, and Barry Goldwater opposed it so bitterly.

But of course, you would walk into making the most obvious misreading of the article - the author didn't say that Democrats were always the "liberal" party in the US and the Republicans were always the "conservative party", as you misread it.

That happens when you're historically ignorant.

I'm also unsurprised you didn't know the Republicans tried to appease Hitler, like the Tories had done before Churchill - who only operated with the full backing and participation in national government of Attlee's Labour party.

So, in your little attempt to defend "Conservatism's" continual fundamental misreading of history, you have just proved the author correct, and displayed your own historical ignorance.

Keep it up, as you like to say to yourself, because I'm sure you still have a vast reservoir of historical ignorance to tap yet.


Ever hear of Joe kennedy?

(And for its worth I have a 2:1 honors degree in history)

Collect 12 packets of crisps and send off to get a degree in the post, was it?  ;D



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o
That article clearly touched a raw nerve with you, didn't it?

I'm surprised it did - since your reflex reaction on this forum has always been to defend any old sort of abhorrent racist, misogynist bigotry.

You appear to be trapped between two different forms of cowardice - the cowardice of your actual views, and the cowardice to not admit to holding them.


Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.

You really need to take a break Sid. You're losing it a bit. The honesty of democrats has been exposed as a sham. Want a wall, then don't want a wall when it's President Trump actioning it. Want criminal reform, then don't want criminal reform when it's President Trump actioning it and on and on.

Democrats want to import and legitimize illegals for votes. Even give the the vote when they are illegal. They don't care and they will shit in their own house to achieve power.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM

Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.


If you didn't read it, why are you so annoyed by it?

Do things you don't read generally annoy you to such an extent?

Perhaps you might consider taking some anger management classes?

Do you own a gun, out of interest? I really hope you don't, for the sake of anybody who might come into contact with you if you ever decided to leave the house.

Seeing you writing the words "virtual arse" made me laugh, because there's nothing virtual about what you make out of yourself every time you post.

Perhaps if you actually did wipe your own arse, you'd be less full of shit.  ;D




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:29:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM

Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.


If you didn't read it, why are you so annoyed by it?

Do things you don't read generally annoy you to such an extent?

Perhaps you might consider taking some anger management classes?

Do you own a gun, out of interest? I really hope you don't, for the sake of anybody who might come into contact with you if you ever decided to leave the house.

Seeing you writing the words "virtual arse" made me laugh, because there's nothing virtual about what you make out of yourself every time you post.

Perhaps if you actually did wipe your own arse, you'd be less full of shit.  ;D

As I said, I wouldn't read GQ. Unlike yourself I don't have hang-ups and personal issues that lead you to pretend about your lifestyle. ;)

Judging by the last few pages Sid you might want to check if there are coupons for anger management classes in your edition of Elle GQ. That's one serious triggering that needs attention.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 03:32:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM

Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.


If you didn't read it, why are you so annoyed by it?

Do things you don't read generally annoy you to such an extent?

Perhaps you might consider taking some anger management classes?

Do you own a gun, out of interest? I really hope you don't, for the sake of anybody who might come into contact with you if you ever decided to leave the house.

Seeing you writing the words "virtual arse" made me laugh, because there's nothing virtual about what you make out of yourself every time you post.

Perhaps if you actually did wipe your own arse, you'd be less full of shit.  ;D

I hope this doesnt trigger you

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgXPtDR-xQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2019, 03:47:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 03:32:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM

Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.


If you didn't read it, why are you so annoyed by it?

Do things you don't read generally annoy you to such an extent?

Perhaps you might consider taking some anger management classes?

Do you own a gun, out of interest? I really hope you don't, for the sake of anybody who might come into contact with you if you ever decided to leave the house.

Seeing you writing the words "virtual arse" made me laugh, because there's nothing virtual about what you make out of yourself every time you post.

Perhaps if you actually did wipe your own arse, you'd be less full of shit.  ;D

I hope this doesnt trigger you

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgXPtDR-xQ

You'll have to explain why it would?

If the Dems were now "open border" enthusiasts as Trump continuously claims, you might have a case. Just because they, and by your statement only yesterday, yourself, think a wall all the way along the border is ludicrous, doesn't mean they suddenly want people streaming across unchecked.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 03:51:46 PM
"Unfortunate misstatement".

As opposed to Nazi-esque propaganda intended to stir up mass racism.

Quotehttps://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status/1082675264268746756

Kellyanne Conway on Fox News last night said the administration's claim that 3,755 known or unknown terrorists were blocked at the border "was an unfortunate misstatement". Imagine that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 03:54:00 PM
Have Republicans yet worked out what a marginal tax rate is, by the way?

Talk about leaving yourself open to ridicule.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 04:00:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2019, 03:47:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 03:32:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM

Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.


If you didn't read it, why are you so annoyed by it?

Do things you don't read generally annoy you to such an extent?

Perhaps you might consider taking some anger management classes?

Do you own a gun, out of interest? I really hope you don't, for the sake of anybody who might come into contact with you if you ever decided to leave the house.

Seeing you writing the words "virtual arse" made me laugh, because there's nothing virtual about what you make out of yourself every time you post.

Perhaps if you actually did wipe your own arse, you'd be less full of shit.  ;D

I hope this doesnt trigger you

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgXPtDR-xQ

You'll have to explain why it would?

If the Dems were now "open border" enthusiasts as Trump continuously claims, you might have a case. Just because they, and by your statement only yesterday, yourself, think a wall all the way along the border is ludicrous, doesn't mean they suddenly want people streaming across unchecked.

Every statement in that video is a direct contradiction to their current public positions, but believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2019, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 04:00:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2019, 03:47:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 03:32:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM

Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.


If you didn't read it, why are you so annoyed by it?

Do things you don't read generally annoy you to such an extent?

Perhaps you might consider taking some anger management classes?

Do you own a gun, out of interest? I really hope you don't, for the sake of anybody who might come into contact with you if you ever decided to leave the house.

Seeing you writing the words "virtual arse" made me laugh, because there's nothing virtual about what you make out of yourself every time you post.

Perhaps if you actually did wipe your own arse, you'd be less full of shit.  ;D

I hope this doesnt trigger you

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgXPtDR-xQ

You'll have to explain why it would?

If the Dems were now "open border" enthusiasts as Trump continuously claims, you might have a case. Just because they, and by your statement only yesterday, yourself, think a wall all the way along the border is ludicrous, doesn't mean they suddenly want people streaming across unchecked.

Every statement in that video is a direct contradiction to their current public positions, but believe what you want

Every statement?

Please do elaborate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 04:30:39 PM
Which ones aren't ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2019, 04:56:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM

Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.


If you didn't read it, why are you so annoyed by it?

Do things you don't read generally annoy you to such an extent?

Perhaps you might consider taking some anger management classes?

Do you own a gun, out of interest? I really hope you don't, for the sake of anybody who might come into contact with you if you ever decided to leave the house.

Seeing you writing the words "virtual arse" made me laugh, because there's nothing virtual about what you make out of yourself every time you post.

Perhaps if you actually did wipe your own arse, you'd be less full of shit.  ;D

Quality!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 05:10:26 PM
You must have very low standards
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 05:44:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 05:10:26 PM
You must have very low standards

Well Democrats aren't known for high standards. Quality to them means Maxine Waters, Robert "the fake latino Beto" O'rourke, Kirsten Gillibrand, Antifa, That tippy-tops financial genius waitress who's now in congress,  Black Lives Matter, Rosie O'Donnell and Barack Obama.

High quality indeed :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 09, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o

As always the "A" student Dolph. Open minded, thoughtful, considered and "manly".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 09, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o

As always the "A" student Dolph. Open minded, thoughtful, considered and "manly".

Why thank you.
The A stands for Alpha male. Proud and strong.
Democrats are GQ reading, Artisan Coffee swilling, Avocado toast munching, no sock wearing (amongst other things) weak Beta males.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 09, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o

As always the "A" student Dolph. Open minded, thoughtful, considered and "manly".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/photos-men-at-the-womens-march-on-washington/amp

Sid is probably getting ready for the Women's March. He's knitting his hat as we speak

I heard that unfortunately it's cancelled in CA because too many white people were planning on showing up

I also read that the Pussy Hats were offensive because not every woman has a vagina

I also read that pink hats of all description were offensive because not every woman who did  have a vagina had a pink one


Keep her lit Sid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 07:08:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 09, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o

As always the "A" student Dolph. Open minded, thoughtful, considered and "manly".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/photos-men-at-the-womens-march-on-washington/amp

Sid is probably getting ready for the Women's March. He's knitting his hat as we speak

I heard that unfortunately it's cancelled in CA because too many white people were planning on showing up

I also read that the Pussy Hats were offensive because not every woman has a vagina

I also read that pink hats of all description were offensive because not every woman who did  have a vagina had a pink one


Keep her lit Sid

It is quite fun watching them tie themselves in knots and tripping up through their political correctness minefield.
More please!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2019, 07:37:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 07:08:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 06:48:09 PM



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/photos-men-at-the-womens-march-on-washington/amp

Sid is probably getting ready for the Women's March. He's knitting his hat as we speak

I heard that unfortunately it's cancelled in CA because too many white people were planning on showing up

I also read that the Pussy Hats were offensive because not every woman has a vagina

I also read that pink hats of all description were offensive because not every woman who did  have a vagina had a pink one


Keep her lit Sid

It is quite fun watching them tie themselves in knots and tripping up through their political correctness minefield.
More please!!

Get a room, you too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2019, 08:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 04:30:39 PM
Which ones aren't ?

You're the one making the definitive statement. Put your money where your mouth is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2019, 08:11:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 09, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o

As always the "A" student Dolph. Open minded, thoughtful, considered and "manly".

Why thank you.
The A stands for Alpha male. Proud and strong.
Democrats are GQ reading, Artisan Coffee swilling, Avocado toast munching, no sock wearing (amongst other things) weak Beta males.

Nothing wrong with avocado toast.

I'm not a coffee drinker myself, but I do enjoy some nice craft beers (Belgian style) and ciders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2019, 08:20:08 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o
That article clearly touched a raw nerve with you, didn't it?

I'm surprised it did - since your reflex reaction on this forum has always been to defend any old sort of abhorrent racist, misogynist bigotry.

You appear to be trapped between two different forms of cowardice - the cowardice of your actual views, and the cowardice to not admit to holding them.


Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.

You really need to take a break Sid. You're losing it a bit. The honesty of democrats has been exposed as a sham. Want a wall, then don't want a wall when it's President Trump actioning it. Want criminal reform, then don't want criminal reform when it's President Trump actioning it and on and on.

Democrats want to import and legitimize illegals for votes. Even give the the vote when they are illegal. They don't care and they will shit in their own house to achieve power.

Talking shite again. You cannot be this dumb, so I presume you are just on the wind up?

The criminal reform bill would have passed under Obama with complete Democratic support except for Tom Cotton and Jeff Sessions, with Mitch McConnell happy to play along to deny Obama a win.

This time out, every Democrat in the Senate voted for it. Twelve Republicans voted against it, with Tom Cotton again determined to thwart it, assist by Kennedy of LA, but this time McConnell allowed it to go through so Trump could sign it. Sailed through the House as well with complete Democratic support and only GOP dissent.

You need to try harder.

I would add that whitey is accusing the Dems of cynicism on the border stuff. Where does he stand on the GOP and the criminal reform bill they denied Obama, but granted Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 09, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o

As always the "A" student Dolph. Open minded, thoughtful, considered and "manly".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/photos-men-at-the-womens-march-on-washington/amp

Sid is probably getting ready for the Women's March. He's knitting his hat as we speak

I heard that unfortunately it's cancelled in CA because too many white people were planning on showing up

I also read that the Pussy Hats were offensive because not every woman has a vagina

I also read that pink hats of all description were offensive because not every woman who did  have a vagina had a pink one


Keep her lit Sid
Wow, wind you up a little and the raving misogynism really does come out, doesn't it?

But sure hatred of women and fascism go hand in hand, don't they?





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2019, 10:36:51 PM
I'd rather be a liberal than a half-educated, semi-literate, woman-hating, gun-toting, beer-swilling, oversized pickup-driving, churchgoing, climate-denying, Fox News-watching, wife-beating, Stetson-wearing, country-music-listening, government-hating, taxophobic, mustached, passportless, young-Earth creationist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, paranoid, ignorant, fact-averse, banjo-playing redneck conservative gobshite any day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2019, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 06:48:09 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/photos-men-at-the-womens-march-on-washington/amp

Sid is probably getting ready for the Women's March. He's knitting his hat as we speak

I heard that unfortunately it's cancelled in CA because too many white people were planning on showing up

I also read that the Pussy Hats were offensive because not every woman has a vagina

I also read that pink hats of all description were offensive because not every woman who did  have a vagina had a pink one


Keep her lit Sid
Wow, wind you up a little and the raving misogynism really does come out, doesn't it?

But sure hatred of women and fascism go hand in hand, don't they?

You can't say that. He's an alpha male, you know. Conservatives are big tough guys. Hard as nails, they are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 10:40:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 09, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o

As always the "A" student Dolph. Open minded, thoughtful, considered and "manly".

Why thank you.
The A stands for Alpha male. Proud and strong.
Democrats are GQ reading, Artisan Coffee swilling, Avocado toast munching, no sock wearing (amongst other things) weak Beta males.

You already answered the question about what the A stands for here.  ;D

Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 03:02:35 PM

Didn't read it. I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with that e-rag.


I suspect it's the AA you really need to see, and I'm not talking about those nice people who fix your car - although you do seem to be having a different sort of breakdown.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 10:43:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2019, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 06:48:09 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/photos-men-at-the-womens-march-on-washington/amp

Sid is probably getting ready for the Women's March. He's knitting his hat as we speak

I heard that unfortunately it's cancelled in CA because too many white people were planning on showing up

I also read that the Pussy Hats were offensive because not every woman has a vagina

I also read that pink hats of all description were offensive because not every woman who did  have a vagina had a pink one


Keep her lit Sid
Wow, wind you up a little and the raving misogynism really does come out, doesn't it?

But sure hatred of women and fascism go hand in hand, don't they?

You can't say that. He's an alpha male, you know. Conservatives are big tough guys. Hard as nails, they are.
They're hard as nails like this guy.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/i-will-watch-you-bleed-internet-troll-spared-jail-despite-vile-death-threats-against-senator-36474556.html

(https://cdn-02.independent.ie/incoming/article36485142.ece/f3c0a/AUTOCROP/w620/II%20GM%20French%203.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 10:49:09 PM
I think the Women's March will be a great event by the way, as it always is.

Whitey Supremacist and Adolph should head along for the craic - it'd be a fantastic opportunity for them to talk to some actual women for once in their lives, at least.

https://www.womensmarch.com/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 11:33:00 PM
This revelation that Manafort was giving polling information to the Russians seems pretty significant. The Russians would thus have been able to specifically target certain types of social media profiles with disinformation. Seems to be pretty straight up collusion and conspiracy.

The most prominent Russian at the centre of this is Oleg Deripaska. And guess who Trump wants to lift sanctions against...the same Oleg Deripaska.

It's gas the way Republicans love to say that traditional media is finished and that social media is where its at, the in the next breath dismiss the effect of targeted fake news on social media.

It's almost like they're being completely and utterly dishonest to try and protect themselves.  ;D

Rachel Maddow had a great piece the other night about how uncanny it is how Trump parrots Russian foreign policy "talking points" exactly when theey want him to.

I'd be suprised if he could point out Montenegro on a map, never mind knowing anything about it. To be honest, I'd be surprised if he'd ever heard of it before the Russians started poking around there.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 11:35:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 09, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o

As always the "A" student Dolph. Open minded, thoughtful, considered and "manly".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/photos-men-at-the-womens-march-on-washington/amp

Sid is probably getting ready for the Women's March. He's knitting his hat as we speak

I heard that unfortunately it's cancelled in CA because too many white people were planning on showing up

I also read that the Pussy Hats were offensive because not every woman has a vagina

I also read that pink hats of all description were offensive because not every woman who did  have a vagina had a pink one


Keep her lit Sid
Wow, wind you up a little and the raving misogynism really does come out, doesn't it?

But sure hatred of women and fascism go hand in hand, don't they?

According to the Democrats there no such thing as a man or a woman

How's the genetalia neutral hat coming along? 

I wouldn't want you triggering a woman who doesn't have a vagina when you go to the march.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2019, 11:38:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 11:33:00 PM
This revelation that Manafort was giving polling information to the Russians seems pretty significant. The Russians would thus have been able to specifically target certain types of social media profiles with disinformation. Seems to be pretty straight up collusion and conspiracy.

The most prominent Russian at the centre of this is Oleg Deripaska. And guess who Trump wants to lift sanctions against...the same Oleg Deripaska.

It's gas the way Republicans love to say that traditional media is finished and that social media is where its at, the in the next breath dismiss the effect of targeted fake news on social media.

It's almost like they're being completely and utterly dishonest to try and protect themselves.  ;D

Rachel Maddow had a great piece the other night about how uncanny it is how Trump parrots Russian foreign policy "talking points" exactly when theey want him to.

I'd be suprised if he could point out Montenegro on a map, never mind knowing anything about it. To be honest, I'd be surprised if he'd ever heard of it before the Russians started poking around there.

Which Rachel Maddow?   There has to be more than one

Surely your not listening to this one.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hZmY_jIe6do

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ulN1NfA31x8

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2017/03/16/rachel-maddows-trump-bombshell-completely-backfired/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 12:00:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 11:35:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 09, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 09, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Cracking article. "Conservatism" has always found itself on the wrong side of history. And it sure isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime now.

https://www.gq.com/story/on-conservatism?verso=true


Seriously, what sort of man reads GQ, especially for their viewpoints ?  :o

As always the "A" student Dolph. Open minded, thoughtful, considered and "manly".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/photos-men-at-the-womens-march-on-washington/amp

Sid is probably getting ready for the Women's March. He's knitting his hat as we speak

I heard that unfortunately it's cancelled in CA because too many white people were planning on showing up

I also read that the Pussy Hats were offensive because not every woman has a vagina

I also read that pink hats of all description were offensive because not every woman who did  have a vagina had a pink one


Keep her lit Sid
Wow, wind you up a little and the raving misogynism really does come out, doesn't it?

But sure hatred of women and fascism go hand in hand, don't they?

According to the Democrats there no such thing as a man or a woman

How's the genetalia neutral hat coming along? 

I wouldn't want you triggering a woman who doesn't have a vagina when you go to the march.
The mask has well and truly come off tonight, hasn't it?

And behind it is revealed a sad, pathetic, fearful, hateful little man, just like your hero, Trump.

Are you steaming drunk?

Because the way you're writing, it's a dead giveaway that there's steam coming out of your ears.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 12:07:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 11:38:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2019, 11:33:00 PM
This revelation that Manafort was giving polling information to the Russians seems pretty significant. The Russians would thus have been able to specifically target certain types of social media profiles with disinformation. Seems to be pretty straight up collusion and conspiracy.

The most prominent Russian at the centre of this is Oleg Deripaska. And guess who Trump wants to lift sanctions against...the same Oleg Deripaska.

It's gas the way Republicans love to say that traditional media is finished and that social media is where its at, the in the next breath dismiss the effect of targeted fake news on social media.

It's almost like they're being completely and utterly dishonest to try and protect themselves.  ;D

Rachel Maddow had a great piece the other night about how uncanny it is how Trump parrots Russian foreign policy "talking points" exactly when theey want him to.

I'd be suprised if he could point out Montenegro on a map, never mind knowing anything about it. To be honest, I'd be surprised if he'd ever heard of it before the Russians started poking around there.

Which Rachel Maddow?   There has to be more than one

Surely your not listening to this one.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hZmY_jIe6do

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ulN1NfA31x8

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2017/03/16/rachel-maddows-trump-bombshell-completely-backfired/amp/
To be honest, reading your posts here tonight, I think it's definitely yourself who has to worry about split personality disorder. Adolph's posting style has really got in on you. I wonder why that is.  ;)

Were you looking lovingly at the poster of of your dear leader Trump on your wall as you wrote that post?

You were, weren't you?





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 10, 2019, 12:34:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 11:35:02 PM
According to the Democrats there no such thing as a man or a woman

According to Republicans "China is paying us tariffs." I had a good chuckle at that one.

The difference between my quote and yours is that mine is an actual quote, yours is made up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 12:43:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 10, 2019, 12:34:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 11:35:02 PM
According to the Democrats there no such thing as a man or a woman

According to Republicans "China is paying us tariffs." I had a good chuckle at that one.

The difference between my quote and yours is that mine is an actual quote, yours is made up.
Ah here, now, you're not telling us that Whitey Supremacist* is......FAKE NEWS?!

Lolzers.

*Perhaps he meant to log in as Adolph?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 12:43:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 10, 2019, 12:34:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2019, 11:35:02 PM
According to the Democrats there no such thing as a man or a woman

According to Republicans "China is paying us tariffs." I had a good chuckle at that one.

The difference between my quote and yours is that mine is an actual quote, yours is made up.
Ah here, now, you're not telling us that Whitey Supremacist* is......FAKE NEWS?!

Lolzers.

*Perhaps he meant to log in as Adolph?

Maybe you can knit Eamonn a gender neutral hat too.

Ye don't have too many brain cells to keep warm and I'd hate for the few ye have to get perished

I wonder if your gal pal Rachel Maddow has any more big revelations coming out......maybe she should subscribe to National Enquirer to give her some ideas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 01:15:50 AM
Whitey Supremacist seems to have been driven absolutely demented by something.

Probably a woman who spurned his unwanted advances - you could hardly blame her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:19:58 AM
Remember.......according to the Democrats there's no such thing as a woman
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 01:24:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:19:58 AM
Remember.......according to the Democrats there's no such thing as a woman
I suppose when you're you, that might as well be true.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:33:54 AM
Eh....yeah ....right....okay
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:33:54 AM
Eh....yeah ....right....okay
That's probably your most articulate post today, to be fair.

It's certainly a lot more articulate than the torrents of racist, misogynist, transphobic rot you were angrily spewing out earlier.

There's no sadder and more pathetic little man than one who feels threatened by the happiness and well being of others, as you so clearly do about trans people.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:48:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:33:54 AM
Eh....yeah ....right....okay
That's probably your most articulate post today, to be fair.

It's certainly a lot more articulate than the torrents of racist, misogynist, transphobic rot you were angrily spewing out earlier.

There's no sadder and more pathetic little man than one who feels threatened by the happiness and well being of others, as you so clearly do about trans people.

How's the hat coming along?

Maybe you can pretend to be black too like that guy Shaun King from Black Lives Matter

Think about it......you could go to the march as a Black Woman.   How wild would that be?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 10, 2019, 05:33:54 AM
Whitey... which part of the old catholic grandmother who actually acts out her Christianity do you feel embarrassed about demonizing.. Just in case you don't get me ... I am talking about Nancy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2019, 10:32:41 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 10, 2019, 05:33:54 AM
Whitey... which part of the old catholic grandmother who actually acts out her Christianity do you feel embarrassed about demonizing.. Just in case you don't get me ... I am talking about Nancy.

So you're offended because I'm poking fun at a BLM activist who is actually a white person pretending to be black, and at the same time pointing out the absurdity of the PC culture here in the States who are offended by, well just about everything including pink hats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 11:25:32 AM
The Daily Caller is run by the white supremacist and misogynist Tucker Carlson. Ocasio-Cortez has the backwoodsmen rattled to the core, which is why they've now resorted to speading fake nude photographs of her.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1083179277795971073

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
‏
Verified account

@AOC

For those out of the loop, Republicans began to circulate a fake nude photo of me. The @DailyCaller reposted it (!) and refused to indicate it was fake in the title as well.

Completely disgusting behavior from Conservative outlets.

No wonder they defended Kavanaugh so fiercely.

5:50 PM - 9 Jan 2019
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 11:30:20 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2019, 10:36:51 PM
I'd rather be a liberal than a half-educated, semi-literate, woman-hating, gun-toting, beer-swilling, oversized pickup-driving, churchgoing, climate-denying, Fox News-watching, wife-beating, Stetson-wearing, country-music-listening, government-hating, taxophobic, mustached, passportless, young-Earth creationist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, paranoid, ignorant, fact-averse, banjo-playing redneck conservative gobshite any day.

(https://i.imgflip.com/19y0nu.jpg)

oh Eamonnca1 - that much hatred can't be good for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 11:33:55 AM
Did somebody here say "dehumanisation"?

Donald Trump Jr. comparing refugees to zoo animals is definitely dehumanisation, I think.

No Nazi overtones to that, or anything. No, siree.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-jr-mexico-border-wall-zoo-fence-animals-instagram-post-us-government-shutdown-a8720356.html

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwcZx0eWoAESYfS.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 11:35:06 AM
Whitey Supremacist logs out, Adolph logs in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 12:03:19 PM
Maybe one of the TV networks could commission a series showing regular people, mainly from central America, trying to scale a 30ft wall with little or no equipment.

Lets see how many can make it over and make it past homeland security and drones before making it to a sanctuary city. They could hand out 3 year visas* as prizes if they can.


* - subject to ICE screening prior to visa being awarded. Terms and conditions apply.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 12:03:19 PM
Maybe one of the TV networks could commission a series showing regular people, mainly from central America, trying to scale a 30ft wall with little or no equipment.

Lets see how many can make it over and make it past homeland security and drones before making it to a sanctuary city. They could hand out 3 year visas* as prizes if they can.


* - subject to ICE screening prior to visa being awarded. Terms and conditions apply.
Are you sure you didn't mean to post that under your Whitey Supremacist log in, Adolph? 

It's just that, you know, both accounts were posting like their operators had a lot of alcohol on board last night.

What a coincidence.  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2019, 12:35:38 PM
Sid.  I can assure you I am not Dolph.

And I'm on a New Years kick.....no alcohol during the week
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 12:35:38 PM
Sid.  I can assure you I am not Dolph.

And I'm on a New Years kick.....no alcohol during the week
Even more worrying for you.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:48:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:33:54 AM
Eh....yeah ....right....okay
That's probably your most articulate post today, to be fair.

It's certainly a lot more articulate than the torrents of racist, misogynist, transphobic rot you were angrily spewing out earlier.

There's no sadder and more pathetic little man than one who feels threatened by the happiness and well being of others, as you so clearly do about trans people.

How's the hat coming along?

Maybe you can pretend to be black too like that guy Shaun King from Black Lives Matter

Think about it......you could go to the march as a Black Woman.   How wild would that be?

Sid indicated he wants females of color to lead the democrat ticket in the next election

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaH5gP6hamKt7dpTZ74moW89HQLLYMI9piZc4aECFr8NNi7B-D)

Warren / Dolzeal 2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 01:12:10 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:48:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:33:54 AM
Eh....yeah ....right....okay
That's probably your most articulate post today, to be fair.

It's certainly a lot more articulate than the torrents of racist, misogynist, transphobic rot you were angrily spewing out earlier.

There's no sadder and more pathetic little man than one who feels threatened by the happiness and well being of others, as you so clearly do about trans people.

How's the hat coming along?

Maybe you can pretend to be black too like that guy Shaun King from Black Lives Matter

Think about it......you could go to the march as a Black Woman.   How wild would that be?

Sid indicated he wants females of color to lead the democrat ticket in the next election

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaH5gP6hamKt7dpTZ74moW89HQLLYMI9piZc4aECFr8NNi7B-D)

Warren / Dolzeal 2020
Adoplh, are yourself and Whitey Supremacist still pretending to not be fascists? Sorry, I meant, fascist, singular.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on January 10, 2019, 01:14:26 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:48:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:33:54 AM
Eh....yeah ....right....okay
That's probably your most articulate post today, to be fair.

It's certainly a lot more articulate than the torrents of racist, misogynist, transphobic rot you were angrily spewing out earlier.

There's no sadder and more pathetic little man than one who feels threatened by the happiness and well being of others, as you so clearly do about trans people.

How's the hat coming along?

Maybe you can pretend to be black too like that guy Shaun King from Black Lives Matter

Think about it......you could go to the march as a Black Woman.   How wild would that be?

Sid indicated he wants females of color to lead the democrat ticket in the next election

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaH5gP6hamKt7dpTZ74moW89HQLLYMI9piZc4aECFr8NNi7B-D)

Warren / Dolzeal 2020

Who cares? Only sexists and racists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:17:23 PM
So making fun of white people who pretend to be minotities is now racist?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 01:19:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 01:17:23 PM
So making fun of white people is now racist?

They just can't make up their minds!!

At this stage they don't even remember what they are supposed to be offended by.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 01:20:37 PM
Anyone see the Chuck and Nancy response the other night?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/4a/e6/eb4ae6e2790c3734795e8d90b89d0fb8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 01:20:37 PM
Anyone see the Chuck and Nancy response the other night?

Yeah -  a lot more people than saw Trump's litany of lies.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/09/schumer-and-pelosi-managed-to-draw-more-viewers-than-trump/

Losing in the TV ratings stakes will seriously damage Trump's ego.

Imagine that, more people wanted to watch Pelosi and Schumer than him.  ;D

Trump's problem now is that people have become completely bored of his toddler antics. That is a disaster for him.

And polls show that the US public are by a large margin laying the blame for the gvernment shutdown at the door of him and Republicans.

Tick tock.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gaaboard on January 10, 2019, 01:44:11 PM
Hi folks,

This topic is getting out of hand with the personal insults.
Keep it civil or sanctions will be issued.

Cheers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on January 10, 2019, 03:27:26 PM
I think that Trump is unwittingly doing a great job here.

Previous administrations for both sides have never addressed the illegal immigration on the southern border. It suited the Rep businessmen's need to cheap labor and the Democrats see this quite cynically as a way of growing their base.

With this bull in the china shop, maybe the grown ups in the house and senate will actual pull something together to stop the flow of illegals coming over the border, but also set up a scheme  to enable the immigrants to come her and work legally (create a new visa program for needed staff)

Trump's bad but the democrats are not that far behind. If you have lived in the states, one of the most depressing things that you will witness is the day labor pick up spots. Guys desperately looking for work.

I played for a team in the states which had a major fallout once. One of the lads would regularly pick up day workers and fire them during the day or just not pay them at the end of the day. The rest of the team went made when they found out. The most interesting thing was his rational, they're illegal, so what can they do.

this stuff must be happening allover the country.

When you add in the sexual abuse that happens etc, it really is a depressing way to live.

The democrats had their opportunity to fix it during Obama'a first two years and Clinton's first two years and did diddlysquat.

Hopefully they'll address it now, and if that means building a wall to get it done, build the f%^king wall
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 05:20:13 PM
I thoroughly agree with these sentiments!  ;D

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1083169537263054849
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 10, 2019, 05:44:55 PM
Colorado is considering legislation (https://www.cpr.org/news/story/colorado-could-join-effort-to-sideline-the-electoral-college) to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. We're now at 172 electoral college votes, Colorado signing up would get us to 181. Similar rumblings in New Mexico and Indiana. If they get through then that'd get us up to 197. Still quite a bit short of 270, but if a big enough blue wave hits in 2020 in down-ticket races then we should be able to get this thing over the line and abolish the Electoral College (AKA affirmative action for rednecks) and restore democracy. Once we fix the gerrymandering problem there'll be no more right-wing coups d'etat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2019, 06:03:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 10, 2019, 05:44:55 PM
Colorado is considering legislation (https://www.cpr.org/news/story/colorado-could-join-effort-to-sideline-the-electoral-college) to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. We're now at 172 electoral college votes, Colorado signing up would get us to 181. Similar rumblings in New Mexico and Indiana. If they get through then that'd get us up to 197. Still quite a bit short of 270, but if a big enough blue wave hits in 2020 in down-ticket races then we should be able to get this thing over the line and abolish the Electoral College (AKA affirmative action for rednecks) and restore democracy. Once we fix the gerrymandering problem there'll be no more right-wing coups d'etat.

Keep her lit

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/its-official-clintons-popular-vote-win-came-entirely-from-california/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 06:14:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2019, 06:03:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 10, 2019, 05:44:55 PM
Colorado is considering legislation (https://www.cpr.org/news/story/colorado-could-join-effort-to-sideline-the-electoral-college) to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. We're now at 172 electoral college votes, Colorado signing up would get us to 181. Similar rumblings in New Mexico and Indiana. If they get through then that'd get us up to 197. Still quite a bit short of 270, but if a big enough blue wave hits in 2020 in down-ticket races then we should be able to get this thing over the line and abolish the Electoral College (AKA affirmative action for rednecks) and restore democracy. Once we fix the gerrymandering problem there'll be no more right-wing coups d'etat.

Keep her lit

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/its-official-clintons-popular-vote-win-came-entirely-from-california/
So if California wasn't part of the US, Trump would have won the popular vote. The thing is though, California is part of the US.  ;D

That reminds me of Howard Wilkinson's quote: "we might have lost 1-0, but you have to remember that if they hadn't scored, we would have got a better result".

It also uses exactly the same logic as saying that if you didn't hate non-white people, you wouldn't be racist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 10, 2019, 09:05:49 PM
Cohen testifying in front of congress . . . The orange one may explode!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2019, 10:12:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 10, 2019, 09:05:49 PM
Cohen testifying in front of congress . . . The orange one may explode!!!

Just fvckin stupid. Let Mueller finish his work and then have all the hearings you want

This could actually undermine Mueller
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 10:45:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 10, 2019, 09:05:49 PM
Cohen testifying in front of congress . . . The orange one may explode!!!

Are you judging someone by the color of their skin??
There's a word for people like you.
You might even have to hand in your social justice warrior and thought police "get out of jail free" membership card.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 11:58:10 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AppropriateRingedBasilisk-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2019, 12:24:24 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 10, 2019, 10:45:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 10, 2019, 09:05:49 PM
Cohen testifying in front of congress . . . The orange one may explode!!!

Are you judging someone by the color of their skin??
There's a word for people like you.
You might even have to hand in your social justice warrior and thought police "get out of jail free" membership card.

I have no problem with the colour of someone's skin... when they try and change it that disturbs me slightly!

You "alt righters" seem to be getting worried about your boy... I can't wait!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2019, 06:05:01 AM
And for his next trick the tangerine twerp says "the buck stops with everybody."

This is hilarious! I'm going to miss his daily idiocy when he's locked up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 11, 2019, 11:08:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 10, 2019, 11:58:10 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AppropriateRingedBasilisk-size_restricted.gif)

Russian collusion proof?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 11, 2019, 11:13:50 AM
Sums it up perfectly

(https://i.imgflip.com/2qqdam.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 11, 2019, 04:15:43 PM
Whatever happened to Democrats and honesty about immigration. Here's Obama in 2005. Spot the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7LGoHV3aKs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2019, 04:49:38 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 11, 2019, 04:15:43 PM
Whatever happened to Democrats and honesty about immigration. Here's Obama in 2005. Spot the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7LGoHV3aKs

You don't need a wall you need immigration reform as both Chuck and Nancy have said numerous times . . . it's quite easy and as Trump has mentioned before he is taking FULL responsibility for the Government shutdown so let him own it.

Was shocked the other day when he admitted that Mexico aren't paying for the wall apparently it was a done deal!!

Who knew??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 11, 2019, 04:52:00 PM
And which part of that do the Democrats no longer support. They have consistently supported border security measures. The only difference between them and your boy "Trump" is they want to be humane and intelligent about how they do it. Come on be honest .. it's all those brown people coming to clean up your garbage and pick your fruit that scare you. Don't hear Trump talking about walling off Canada or spending money on tracking Visa "overstays".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 11, 2019, 05:06:19 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 11, 2019, 04:52:00 PM
And which part of that do the Democrats no longer support. They have consistently supported border security measures. The only difference between them and your boy "Trump" is they want to be humane and intelligent about how they do it. Come on be honest .. it's all those brown people coming to clean up your garbage and pick your fruit that scare you. Don't hear Trump talking about walling off Canada or spending money on tracking Visa "overstays".

Why are you being racist about this? It's about rule of law, not the color of skin. Democrats like Obama, Clinton, Pelosi and Schumer know this and have advocated barriers previously and warned about illegal immigration.  If you want to be honest it's all about not giving Trump a win on a campaign promise. Nothing else.

I was unaware eskimos were pouring through the northern border.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 11, 2019, 05:28:04 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 11, 2019, 04:52:00 PM
And which part of that do the Democrats no longer support. They have consistently supported border security measures. The only difference between them and your boy "Trump" is they want to be humane and intelligent about how they do it. Come on be honest .. it's all those brown people coming to clean up your garbage and pick your fruit that scare you. Don't hear Trump talking about walling off Canada or spending money on tracking Visa "overstays".

We don't share a (direct or indirect) northern border with 640,000,000 people, most of whom live in third world conditions. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 11, 2019, 06:10:52 PM
Why were the majority of Senate Democrats (including Obama and HRC) all for increasing border security in 2006...but are so militarily opposed to the idea in 2018?

What changed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2019, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2019, 06:10:52 PM
Why were the majority of Senate Democrats (including Obama and HRC) all for increasing border security in 2006...but are so militarily opposed to the idea in 2018?

What changed?

I don't know. Why don't you tell us?

Trump was offered a continuing resolution of what he got last year, which including more than a billion for border security, including fencing of the type approved in 2006.

He was all set to accept the same (it passed the Senate FFS a month ago) until Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh started to say mean things about him.

He is the one who then chose to stake his presidency on this one issue. Now he is a hole, with the only way out the "national emergency" charade, where he will rob money set aside for recovery in Puerto Rico and California to pay for his grand monument. And never mind the small matter of hundreds of thousands of families of federal workers and contractors across the country (of which mine is one) who now have to make alternate arrangements with the banks and creditors to cover missing pay cheques and due mortgage and other payments. But then again not paying people was never something that cost Trump a moment's thought.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 11, 2019, 07:23:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2019, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2019, 06:10:52 PM
Why were the majority of Senate Democrats (including Obama and HRC) all for increasing border security in 2006...but are so militarily opposed to the idea in 2018?

What changed?

I don't know. Why don't you tell us?

Trump was offered a continuing resolution of what he got last year, which including more than a billion for border security, including fencing of the type approved in 2006.

He was all set to accept the same (it passed the Senate FFS a month ago) until Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh started to say mean things about him.

He is the one who then chose to stake his presidency on this one issue. Now he is a hole, with the only way out the "national emergency" charade, where he will rob money set aside for recovery in Puerto Rico and California to pay for his grand monument. And never mind the small matter of hundreds of thousands of families of federal workers and contractors across the country (of which mine is one) who now have to make alternate arrangements with the banks and creditors to cover missing pay cheques and due mortgage and other payments. But then again not paying people was never something that cost Trump a moment's thought.

Then just give him the money to build the wall. Compare to the billions that will be squandered in the future policing looking after all these illegals this is a bargain price.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2019, 07:59:12 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 11, 2019, 07:23:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2019, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2019, 06:10:52 PM
Why were the majority of Senate Democrats (including Obama and HRC) all for increasing border security in 2006...but are so militarily opposed to the idea in 2018?

What changed?

I don't know. Why don't you tell us?

Trump was offered a continuing resolution of what he got last year, which including more than a billion for border security, including fencing of the type approved in 2006.

He was all set to accept the same (it passed the Senate FFS a month ago) until Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh started to say mean things about him.

He is the one who then chose to stake his presidency on this one issue. Now he is a hole, with the only way out the "national emergency" charade, where he will rob money set aside for recovery in Puerto Rico and California to pay for his grand monument. And never mind the small matter of hundreds of thousands of families of federal workers and contractors across the country (of which mine is one) who now have to make alternate arrangements with the banks and creditors to cover missing pay cheques and due mortgage and other payments. But then again not paying people was never something that cost Trump a moment's thought.

Then just give him the money to build the wall. Compare to the billions that will be squandered in the future policing looking after all these illegals this is a bargain price.

Was he not offered almost all of the 25B in return for DACA and TPS last year until the meanies on the right started bitching?

No, f**k him.

As it stands, the votes are there to reopen the government. Reopen it, then get talking.

Or go his BS "national emergency" route. The shoe will be on the other foot soon enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 09:40:58 PM
If there's any justice, Alex Jones will end up penniless, thoroughly humiliated, a national pariah, and go to prison. Maybe he could share a cell with Trump?


https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-container/US/families-sandy-hook-shooting-victims-win-legal-victory/story?id=60314174

QuoteSix families of victims killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School won a legal victory Friday in their fight against controversial radio and internet personality Alex Jones.

A judge in Connecticut has granted the families' discovery requests, allowing them access to, among other things, InfoWars' internal marketing and financial documents.

QuoteThe judge's ruling on discovery gives the plaintiffs access to any communication Jones had about the Newtown massacre and to documents that could point to the inner workings of InfoWars.

The plaintiffs — families of four children and two educators killed in the December 2012 shooting — have said the "deeply painful" lies they've accused Jones of pushing have caused them to endure "malicious and cruel abuse" as well as harassment and death threats on social media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2019, 10:47:33 PM
That is just excellent news about Jones!! Total sc**bag!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2019, 12:14:01 AM
Hopefully that lowlife will be held accountable for his cruel, callous lies. The world would be a better place without his contributions, deliberately put out there to rile up halfwits, not giving a f**k who he hurts in the process, and hiding behind an "entertainer" label.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 12, 2019, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

What is it with you and race?!?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2019, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 12, 2019, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

What is it with you and race?!?!
I note you didn't argue the point, because it's true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 14, 2019, 03:37:25 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 11, 2019, 05:06:19 PM
I was unaware eskimos were pouring through the northern border.

More people are going back to Mexico than coming from it, so they're not exactly pouring this way through the southern border either. This border "crisis" is as manufactured as the "intolerable situation" for Germans living in the Sudetenland that your friend Adolf warned us about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on January 14, 2019, 09:21:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2019, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 12, 2019, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

What is it with you and race?!?!
I note you didn't argue the point, because it's true.

It is true though. I've argued this point a few times in the past.

Free markets and small government yadada is a stand in for a deeper issue. Hence the growth of the far right in USA and Europe outflanking the establishment because the acceptable right can't sustain the pretense any longer.

And this little pickle dropped into my news feed the other day much closer to home.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkl1xGTt9Sw

It's pattern repeated across the West and a small number of real academics are looking at it seriously, the media generally won't take an honest look at it and governments generally don't have a clue what to do and slowly but surely we handing everything over to the far right. Imagine a more competent Trump with a more willing government implementing his policies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 14, 2019, 10:34:02 AM
Looks like Biden is going for it!

Can he beat Beto or Trump for that matter?? He probably has a fairly good shot at it thank God. I wonder will it affect Bloomberg's decision?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 14, 2019, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 14, 2019, 09:21:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2019, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 12, 2019, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

What is it with you and race?!?!
I note you didn't argue the point, because it's true.

It is true though. I've argued this point a few times in the past.

Free markets and small government yadada is a stand in for a deeper issue. Hence the growth of the far right in USA and Europe outflanking the establishment because the acceptable right can't sustain the pretense any longer.

And this little pickle dropped into my news feed the other day much closer to home.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkl1xGTt9Sw

It's pattern repeated across the West and a small number of real academics are looking at it seriously, the media generally won't take an honest look at it and governments generally don't have a clue what to do and slowly but surely we handing everything over to the far right. Imagine a more competent Trump with a more willing government implementing his policies.

Is this f***er another example of the Mayoman in London phenomenon - the fella who voted Leave because there are too many immigrants?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 14, 2019, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 14, 2019, 09:21:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2019, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 12, 2019, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

What is it with you and race?!?!
I note you didn't argue the point, because it's true.

It is true though. I've argued this point a few times in the past.

Free markets and small government yadada is a stand in for a deeper issue. Hence the growth of the far right in USA and Europe outflanking the establishment because the acceptable right can't sustain the pretense any longer.

And this little pickle dropped into my news feed the other day much closer to home.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkl1xGTt9Sw

It's pattern repeated across the West and a small number of real academics are looking at it seriously, the media generally won't take an honest look at it and governments generally don't have a clue what to do and slowly but surely we handing everything over to the far right. Imagine a more competent Trump with a more willing government implementing his policies.

Is this f***er another example of the Mayoman in London phenomenon - the fella who voted Leave because there are too many immigrants?
The guy contained within the link there is the far right's current pseudo-"intellectual" of choice. He's widely quoted and linked to by Irish far right Twitter accounts and bloggers. The smallest digging into his background reveals him to be an out and out racist and a highly dangerous individual. This guy makes the alt-right crank Jordan Peterson look like a cuddly toy.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stefan-molyneux
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 14, 2019, 01:22:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 14, 2019, 03:37:25 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 11, 2019, 05:06:19 PM
I was unaware eskimos were pouring through the northern border.

More people are going back to Mexico than coming from it, so they're not exactly pouring this way through the southern border either. This border "crisis" is as manufactured as the "intolerable situation" for Germans living in the Sudetenland that your friend Adolf warned us about.

More lies. Keep them coming!
So would you compare Democrats with the Stalin regime?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 14, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

Why does that excite you Sid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on January 14, 2019, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 14, 2019, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 14, 2019, 09:21:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2019, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 12, 2019, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

What is it with you and race?!?!
I note you didn't argue the point, because it's true.

It is true though. I've argued this point a few times in the past.

Free markets and small government yadada is a stand in for a deeper issue. Hence the growth of the far right in USA and Europe outflanking the establishment because the acceptable right can't sustain the pretense any longer.

And this little pickle dropped into my news feed the other day much closer to home.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkl1xGTt9Sw

It's pattern repeated across the West and a small number of real academics are looking at it seriously, the media generally won't take an honest look at it and governments generally don't have a clue what to do and slowly but surely we handing everything over to the far right. Imagine a more competent Trump with a more willing government implementing his policies.

Is this f***er another example of the Mayoman in London phenomenon - the fella who voted Leave because there are too many immigrants?
The guy contained within the link there is the far right's current pseudo-"intellectual" of choice. He's widely quoted and linked to by Irish far right Twitter accounts and bloggers. The smallest digging into his background reveals him to be an out and out racist and a highly dangerous individual. This guy makes the alt-right crank Jordan Peterson look like a cuddly toy.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stefan-molyneux

I don't think Jordan Peterson is an alt-right crank.

I think he calls out both the right and left and uses logic more than left or right ideology. I really enjoy his debates and he always seems open to discuss topics openly and intelligently
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 14, 2019, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on January 14, 2019, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 14, 2019, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 14, 2019, 09:21:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2019, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 12, 2019, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

What is it with you and race?!?!
I note you didn't argue the point, because it's true.

It is true though. I've argued this point a few times in the past.

Free markets and small government yadada is a stand in for a deeper issue. Hence the growth of the far right in USA and Europe outflanking the establishment because the acceptable right can't sustain the pretense any longer.

And this little pickle dropped into my news feed the other day much closer to home.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkl1xGTt9Sw

It's pattern repeated across the West and a small number of real academics are looking at it seriously, the media generally won't take an honest look at it and governments generally don't have a clue what to do and slowly but surely we handing everything over to the far right. Imagine a more competent Trump with a more willing government implementing his policies.

Is this f***er another example of the Mayoman in London phenomenon - the fella who voted Leave because there are too many immigrants?
The guy contained within the link there is the far right's current pseudo-"intellectual" of choice. He's widely quoted and linked to by Irish far right Twitter accounts and bloggers. The smallest digging into his background reveals him to be an out and out racist and a highly dangerous individual. This guy makes the alt-right crank Jordan Peterson look like a cuddly toy.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stefan-molyneux

I don't think Jordan Peterson is an alt-right crank.

I think he calls out both the right and left and uses logic more than left or right ideology. I really enjoy his debates and he always seems open to discuss topics openly and intelligently
is there such a thing as alt left ? Or is it as far left as it can go , Also anyone who thinks more Mexicans are going back to Mexico  than are coming to America are dreaming
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 10:05:53 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on January 14, 2019, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 14, 2019, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 14, 2019, 09:21:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2019, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 12, 2019, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

What is it with you and race?!?!
I note you didn't argue the point, because it's true.

It is true though. I've argued this point a few times in the past.

Free markets and small government yadada is a stand in for a deeper issue. Hence the growth of the far right in USA and Europe outflanking the establishment because the acceptable right can't sustain the pretense any longer.

And this little pickle dropped into my news feed the other day much closer to home.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkl1xGTt9Sw

It's pattern repeated across the West and a small number of real academics are looking at it seriously, the media generally won't take an honest look at it and governments generally don't have a clue what to do and slowly but surely we handing everything over to the far right. Imagine a more competent Trump with a more willing government implementing his policies.

Is this f***er another example of the Mayoman in London phenomenon - the fella who voted Leave because there are too many immigrants?
The guy contained within the link there is the far right's current pseudo-"intellectual" of choice. He's widely quoted and linked to by Irish far right Twitter accounts and bloggers. The smallest digging into his background reveals him to be an out and out racist and a highly dangerous individual. This guy makes the alt-right crank Jordan Peterson look like a cuddly toy.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stefan-molyneux

I don't think Jordan Peterson is an alt-right crank.

I think he calls out both the right and left and uses logic more than left or right ideology. I really enjoy his debates and he always seems open to discuss topics openly and intelligently
The alt-right (far right) certainly think Peterson is alt-right, and who am I to disagree with them. He provides a thin "intellectual" veneer which the alt-right like to think gives their views some credibility.

He is certainly a miserable crank who doesn't spend a single day not wishing it was 1952 and non-straight white males "knew their place".

He has a very strange fascination and fondness for the term "The Jewish question". I'd have thought such a term was best left in 1940s Germany, and never used ever again. It's sort of a dog whistle to nutcases.

That said, horrible as Peterson is, this Molyneux chap is a whole different league again and is a genuine jackboot-loving white supremacist nut job.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 14, 2019, 10:28:03 PM
In other words anyone who doesn't agree with you bunch of clowns is a Nazi a fascist or alt right
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2019, 10:28:03 PM
In other words anyone who doesn't agree with you bunch of clowns is a Nazi a fascist or alt right
No, just Nazis or people who are alt-right (far right).

But your attempt to clamp down on my free speech is noted.

You're an awful hypocrite, tut tut.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 14, 2019, 11:13:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2019, 10:28:03 PM
In other words anyone who doesn't agree with you bunch of clowns is a Nazi a fascist or alt right
No, just Nazis or people who are alt-right (far right).

But your attempt to clamp down on my free speech is noted.

You're an awful hypocrite, tut tut.

I didn't "attempt to clamp down on" anything......I just made a factual observation

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2019, 11:13:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2019, 10:28:03 PM
In other words anyone who doesn't agree with you bunch of clowns is a Nazi a fascist or alt right
No, just Nazis or people who are alt-right (far right).

But your attempt to clamp down on my free speech is noted.

You're an awful hypocrite, tut tut.

I didn't "attempt to clamp down on" anything......I just made a factual observation
What you're quite clearly trying to do is to rule the use of the words "Nazi" and "alt-right" off limits, when they could scarcely be more pertinent in the discussion of US politics today and the techniques used by propagandists, trolls and pseudo-intellectuals to create a narrative favourable to far right authoritarian fascism of the Trump variety.

That's an attack on free speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 14, 2019, 11:58:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2019, 11:13:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2019, 10:28:03 PM
In other words anyone who doesn't agree with you bunch of clowns is a Nazi a fascist or alt right
No, just Nazis or people who are alt-right (far right).

But your attempt to clamp down on my free speech is noted.

You're an awful hypocrite, tut tut.

I didn't "attempt to clamp down on" anything......I just made a factual observation
What you're quite clearly trying to do is to rule the use of the words "Nazi" and "alt-right" off limits, when they could scarcely be more pertinent in the discussion of US politics today and the techniques used by propagandists, trolls and pseudo-intellectuals to create a narrative favourable to far right authoritarian fascism of the Trump variety.

That's an attack on free speech.

Only if you're a simpleton....use away. 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2019, 11:58:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2019, 11:13:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2019, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 14, 2019, 10:28:03 PM
In other words anyone who doesn't agree with you bunch of clowns is a Nazi a fascist or alt right
No, just Nazis or people who are alt-right (far right).

But your attempt to clamp down on my free speech is noted.

You're an awful hypocrite, tut tut.

I didn't "attempt to clamp down on" anything......I just made a factual observation
What you're quite clearly trying to do is to rule the use of the words "Nazi" and "alt-right" off limits, when they could scarcely be more pertinent in the discussion of US politics today and the techniques used by propagandists, trolls and pseudo-intellectuals to create a narrative favourable to far right authoritarian fascism of the Trump variety.

That's an attack on free speech.

Only if you're a simpleton....use away.
Cheers, Obergruppenfuhrer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2019, 02:01:29 AM
Yes, we are experiencing a net outflow of illegal, undocumented workers from America back to Mexico (https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/)

"The estimated number of Mexicans in the United States illegally rose steadily for many years, from 2.9 million in 1995 to a peak of 6.9 million in 2007. But the number began dropping in 2008 and has fallen more since, reaching 5.8 million in 2014, the latest year for which Pew analyzed data.

If the number is falling, that means more illegal Mexican immigrants are leaving the United States than entering it. The numbers include both immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally and those who overstayed their visas.

According to Pew, key factors in the decline are the Great Recession, which meant U.S. job losses in construction and other sectors where Mexican immigrants are likely to work; a rising number of deportations; and increasing numbers of U.S. Border Patrol agents.

Immigration experts from a variety of think tanks said Pew's research on illegal immigration is well respected and saw no reason to doubt its methodology."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 15, 2019, 02:23:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2019, 02:01:29 AM
Yes, we are experiencing a net outflow of illegal, undocumented workers from America back to Mexico (https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/)

"The estimated number of Mexicans in the United States illegally rose steadily for many years, from 2.9 million in 1995 to a peak of 6.9 million in 2007. But the number began dropping in 2008 and has fallen more since, reaching 5.8 million in 2014, the latest year for which Pew analyzed data.

If the number is falling, that means more illegal Mexican immigrants are leaving the United States than entering it. The numbers include both immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally and those who overstayed their visas.

According to Pew, key factors in the decline are the Great Recession, which meant U.S. job losses in construction and other sectors where Mexican immigrants are likely to work; a rising number of deportations; and increasing numbers of U.S. Border Patrol agents.

Immigration experts from a variety of think tanks said Pew's research on illegal immigration is well respected and saw no reason to doubt its methodology."

What are the numbers for other Nationalities crossing the Southern border?  Are they up or down?

Are apprehensions up or down?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 15, 2019, 03:26:37 AM
A laughing stock - serving the Clemson football team McDonalds and Wendy's

(https://i.imgur.com/Doqe1i9.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 15, 2019, 04:02:21 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 15, 2019, 03:26:37 AM
A laughing stock - serving the Clemson football team McDonalds and Wendy's

(https://i.imgur.com/Doqe1i9.png)
ye all the 350 pound guys won't eat that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2019, 05:23:55 AM
(https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/1280-width/images/2019/01/articles/main/20190112_wwd000.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2019, 05:28:13 AM
(https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/1280-width/images/2019/01/articles/main/20190119_woc904.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 11:39:14 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2019, 02:01:29 AM
Yes, we are experiencing a net outflow of illegal, undocumented workers from America back to Mexico (https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/)

"The estimated number of Mexicans in the United States illegally rose steadily for many years, from 2.9 million in 1995 to a peak of 6.9 million in 2007. But the number began dropping in 2008 and has fallen more since, reaching 5.8 million in 2014, the latest year for which Pew analyzed data.

If the number is falling, that means more illegal Mexican immigrants are leaving the United States than entering it. The numbers include both immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally and those who overstayed their visas.

According to Pew, key factors in the decline are the Great Recession, which meant U.S. job losses in construction and other sectors where Mexican immigrants are likely to work; a rising number of deportations; and increasing numbers of U.S. Border Patrol agents.

Immigration experts from a variety of think tanks said Pew's research on illegal immigration is well respected and saw no reason to doubt its methodology."

Lies, lies and more lies. Democrat spin.
Mexicans that get to the US won't leave any time soon for fear they won't make it back. There are disputes of how many are is the US. Some estimate up to 30 million illegals.

If they do actually manage to account for all the illegals then perhaps they can hand that over that list to ICE? Would save a lot of time and effort. The money they save could build a superwall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 11:40:03 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 14, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

Why does that excite you Sid?

Bump for Sid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2019, 04:26:59 PM
For his next trick, Adolph1 will disprove General Relativity using a slide rule and the "lie lies lies" defense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 15, 2019, 04:34:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 11:40:03 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 14, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

Why does that excite you Sid?

Bump for Sid.

Whether or not Sid is excited by the prospect of whites joining all other races as minorities in the US, there is clearly a segment of the US right wing which is terrified by that. Just this week we are seeing Steve King FINALLY being called out by his GOP colleagues (what took them so long??), even as Trump tries to feign ignorance of who King is despite previously stating outright and also demonstrating by his own independent statements and actions that he agrees with much of what King espouses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 04:42:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2019, 04:34:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 11:40:03 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 14, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

Why does that excite you Sid?

Bump for Sid.

Whether or not Sid is excited by the prospect of whites joining all other races as minorities in the US, there is clearly a segment of the US right wing which is terrified by that. Just this week we are seeing Steve King FINALLY being called out by his GOP colleagues (what took them so long??), even as Trump tries to feign ignorance of who King is despite previously stating outright and also demonstrating by his own independent statements and actions that he agrees with much of what King espouses.

This was a question for Sid. Of course you try to deflect and protect his ignorance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2019, 04:26:59 PM
For his next trick, Adolph1 will disprove General Relativity using a slide rule and the "lie lies lies" defense.

You mean it's a bit like that trick where I have to pretend the woman having an abortion isn't a murderer?









Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 15, 2019, 05:23:55 AM
(https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/1280-width/images/2019/01/articles/main/20190112_wwd000.jpg)

That is pathetic. I am embarrassed for you posting this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 06:19:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2019, 04:34:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 11:40:03 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 14, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

Why does that excite you Sid?

Bump for Sid.

Whether or not Sid is excited by the prospect of whites joining all other races as minorities in the US, there is clearly a segment of the US right wing which is terrified by that. Just this week we are seeing Steve King FINALLY being called out by his GOP colleagues (what took them so long??), even as Trump tries to feign ignorance of who King is despite previously stating outright and also demonstrating by his own independent statements and actions that he agrees with much of what King espouses.
In principle I couldn't give a shit whether whites become a minority in the US or not (they will - it's a mathematical fact on current patterns), but I do find the fact that the Trumpbots are petrified by such to be highly amusing. Of course the reason they're petrified is that their whole sense of identity depends on whites having a higher status than other racial or ethnic groups.

To be honest, if whites in the US continue to embrace such regressive, backward, hate-filled politics in the numbers that they're doing, the prospect of them becoming a minority has to be warmly welcomed.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 06:19:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2019, 04:34:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 11:40:03 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 14, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

Why does that excite you Sid?

Bump for Sid.

Whether or not Sid is excited by the prospect of whites joining all other races as minorities in the US, there is clearly a segment of the US right wing which is terrified by that. Just this week we are seeing Steve King FINALLY being called out by his GOP colleagues (what took them so long??), even as Trump tries to feign ignorance of who King is despite previously stating outright and also demonstrating by his own independent statements and actions that he agrees with much of what King espouses.
In principle I couldn't give a shit whether whites become a minority in the US or not (they will - it's a mathematical fact on current patterns), but I do find the fact that the Trumpbots are petrified by such to be highly amusing. Of course the reason they're petrified is that their whole sense of identity depends on whites having a higher status than other racial or ethnic groups.

To be honest, if whites in the US continue to embrace such regressive, backward, hate-filled politics in the numbers that they're doing, the prospect of them becoming a minority has to be warmly welcomed.

You say you don't give a shit but you brought it up as a talking point.

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 15, 2019, 06:38:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 06:19:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2019, 04:34:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 11:40:03 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 14, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
The Trumpbots are deeply afraid of whites becoming a minority in the US.

Why does that excite you Sid?

Bump for Sid.

Whether or not Sid is excited by the prospect of whites joining all other races as minorities in the US, there is clearly a segment of the US right wing which is terrified by that. Just this week we are seeing Steve King FINALLY being called out by his GOP colleagues (what took them so long??), even as Trump tries to feign ignorance of who King is despite previously stating outright and also demonstrating by his own independent statements and actions that he agrees with much of what King espouses.
In principle I couldn't give a shit whether whites become a minority in the US or not (they will - it's a mathematical fact on current patterns), but I do find the fact that the Trumpbots are petrified by such to be highly amusing. Of course the reason they're petrified is that their whole sense of identity depends on whites having a higher status than other racial or ethnic groups.

To be honest, if whites in the US continue to embrace such regressive, backward, hate-filled politics in the numbers that they're doing, the prospect of them becoming a minority has to be warmly welcomed.

So is that "all" whites.

The "whites" you've personally spoken to

The "whites" who were polled in some survey you've dissected

Or is it just some low information soundbite you picked up somewhere in your travels
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 08:08:25 PM
whitey - learn to read, mate, because you're doing yourself no favours with your spectacular comprehension fails and shrieking desperation to take offence at perfectly reasonable posts.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 15, 2019, 09:16:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 08:08:25 PM
whitey - learn to read, mate, because you're doing yourself no favours with your spectacular comprehension fails and shrieking desperation to take offence at perfectly reasonable posts.

How many "white" citizens of the States have you actually spoken to in the past 12 months?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.
It must be. Any chance you might tell us what it feels like, given that you so obviously experience such?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:35:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 15, 2019, 09:16:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 08:08:25 PM
whitey - learn to read, mate, because you're doing yourself no favours with your spectacular comprehension fails and shrieking desperation to take offence at perfectly reasonable posts.

How many "white" citizens of the States have you actually spoken to in the past 12 months?
Plenty, not that it's relevant, because it isn't. I often wonder how many people you speak to. I assume it's not many because you're so obviously trapped in your own little far right echo chamber.

The data backs me up, by the way.

Adolph's little outburst when confronted with some home truths explicitly backs me up.

The reality of who votes for who in US politics backs me up.

Trump supporters like yourself suffer from "white minority derangement syndrome".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.
It must be. Any chance you might tell us what it feels like, given that you so obviously experience such?

Come up with something original Sid. That's the sort of response you expect from an 8 year old. You and Eamonnca1 must be swapping notes at elementary school.

Since you are celebrating it, how about explaining how whites being a minority will benefit the US.
Or is this just a case of wanting to be a minority so you can pretend you are oppressed and gain victim status?
Democrats love nothing more than playing the victim.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 15, 2019, 10:02:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:35:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 15, 2019, 09:16:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 08:08:25 PM
whitey - learn to read, mate, because you're doing yourself no favours with your spectacular comprehension fails and shrieking desperation to take offence at perfectly reasonable posts.

How many "white" citizens of the States have you actually spoken to in the past 12 months?
Plenty, not that it's relevant, because it isn't. I often wonder how many people you speak to. I assume it's not many because you're so obviously trapped in your own little far right echo chamber.

The data backs me up, by the way.

Adolph's little outburst when confronted with some home truths explicitly backs me up.

The reality of who votes for who in US politics backs me up.

Trump supporters like yourself suffer from "white minority derangement syndrome".

I'm a conservative, but not a Trump supporter.  I obviously agree with Trump on things like taxes and regulation and the need for border security, but that's about it

I would love to see tha "data" that backs up all these one in one conversations you had where supposedly "whites in the US continue to embrace such regressive, backward, hate-filled politics in the numbers that they're doing"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.
It must be. Any chance you might tell us what it feels like, given that you so obviously experience such?

Come up with something original Sid. That's the sort of response you expect from an 8 year old. You and Eamonnca1 must be swapping notes at elementary school.

Since you are celebrating it, how about explaining how whites being a minority will benefit the US.
Or is this just a case of wanting to be a minority so you can pretend you are oppressed and gain victim status?
Democrats love nothing more than playing the victim.
You're projecting again.  ;D

How does whites being a majority benefit the US?

Whites being a minority would of course benefit the US because the current white majority tends to vote in larger numbers for deeply regressive, racist, kleptocratic politics.

A majority-minority situation would mean that such politics could likely never again win. That would be great thing.

You do realise by engaging with me in such a hostile manner on this subject you're only proving me right, yes?  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 10:54:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 15, 2019, 10:02:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:35:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 15, 2019, 09:16:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 08:08:25 PM
whitey - learn to read, mate, because you're doing yourself no favours with your spectacular comprehension fails and shrieking desperation to take offence at perfectly reasonable posts.

How many "white" citizens of the States have you actually spoken to in the past 12 months?
Plenty, not that it's relevant, because it isn't. I often wonder how many people you speak to. I assume it's not many because you're so obviously trapped in your own little far right echo chamber.

The data backs me up, by the way.

Adolph's little outburst when confronted with some home truths explicitly backs me up.

The reality of who votes for who in US politics backs me up.

Trump supporters like yourself suffer from "white minority derangement syndrome".

I'm a conservative, but not a Trump supporter.  I obviously agree with Trump on things like taxes and regulation and the need for border security, but that's about it

I would love to see tha "data" that backs up all these one in one conversations you had where supposedly "whites in the US continue to embrace such regressive, backward, hate-filled politics in the numbers that they're doing"
Lolzers, nobody takes you remotely seriously when say you aren't a Trump supporter. You're a classic fearful, insular Trump-supporting bigot.

Sure thing on the data.

http://www.news.ucsb.edu/2016/017338/threatened-diversity
https://www.pnas.org/content/115/19/E4330
https://www.prri.org/research/white-working-class-attitudes-economy-trade-immigration-election-donald-trump/
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/12/15/16781222/trump-racism-economic-anxiety-study
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/12/15/16781222/trump-racism-economic-anxiety-study
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/ps-political-science-and-politics/article/explaining-the-trump-vote-the-effect-of-racist-resentment-and-antiimmigrant-sentiments/537A8ABA46783791BFF4E2E36B90C0BE/core-reader

Care to explain to me why minorities, especially blacks, have pretty much completely abandoned the Republican party?

Care to explain to me why the crowds at Trump's Nuremberg-style rallies are universally white?

These are rhetorical questions, by the way.

You are living in a fantasy land.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:03:08 AM
Interesting..... I hadn't seen all that research but working class whites alone didn't and couldn't  get Trump elected.

Plenty of middle class and affluent whites voted for him as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/05/its-time-to-bust-the-myth-most-trump-voters-were-not-working-class/?utm_term=.989fa9fdb01b

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 05:47:46 AM
Whitey,
How can you agree with Trump on taxes and regulation?

He doesn't have a tax policy, and while I'm good with deregulating business surely some protection of the health of Americans and the environment may be a win all around?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2019, 08:02:05 AM
The US was always cowboys vs Indians
Now the Indians are called Latinos.

And the cowboys are losing

https://youtu.be/0UVUW11FENs

Sure isn't it the same in NI?  Protestants losing their demographic grip .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on January 16, 2019, 10:43:12 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.
It must be. Any chance you might tell us what it feels like, given that you so obviously experience such?

Come up with something original Sid. That's the sort of response you expect from an 8 year old. You and Eamonnca1 must be swapping notes at elementary school.

Since you are celebrating it, how about explaining how whites being a minority will benefit the US.
Or is this just a case of wanting to be a minority so you can pretend you are oppressed and gain victim status?
Democrats love nothing more than playing the victim.
You're projecting again.  ;D

How does whites being a majority benefit the US?

Whites being a minority would of course benefit the US because the current white majority tends to vote in larger numbers for deeply regressive, racist, kleptocratic politics.

A majority-minority situation would mean that such politics could likely never again win. That would be great thing.

You do realise by engaging with me in such a hostile manner on this subject you're only proving me right, yes?  ;D

So no whites vote for Democrats,,,, or are you saying both Republicans and democrats are deeply regressive, racist.......

Also, older people tend to vote republican. Some of the older voters switch parties, so democrat now doesn't necessarily mean democrat later.

Additionally, second or third generation migrant start to drift over to republican, so again, even if whites become the minority, that in itself doesn't indicate the demise of the Republican party.

Lastly, their are big sections of the US, (North East, California, Chicago, where whites are worried about becoming the minority, nobody cares. Paycheques, mortgages, college tuition are far more important issues than the colour of the political representatives.
   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 16, 2019, 11:40:42 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on January 16, 2019, 10:43:12 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.
It must be. Any chance you might tell us what it feels like, given that you so obviously experience such?

Come up with something original Sid. That's the sort of response you expect from an 8 year old. You and Eamonnca1 must be swapping notes at elementary school.

Since you are celebrating it, how about explaining how whites being a minority will benefit the US.
Or is this just a case of wanting to be a minority so you can pretend you are oppressed and gain victim status?
Democrats love nothing more than playing the victim.
You're projecting again.  ;D

How does whites being a majority benefit the US?

Whites being a minority would of course benefit the US because the current white majority tends to vote in larger numbers for deeply regressive, racist, kleptocratic politics.

A majority-minority situation would mean that such politics could likely never again win. That would be great thing.

You do realise by engaging with me in such a hostile manner on this subject you're only proving me right, yes?  ;D

So no whites vote for Democrats,,,, or are you saying both Republicans and democrats are deeply regressive, racist.......

Also, older people tend to vote republican. Some of the older voters switch parties, so democrat now doesn't necessarily mean democrat later.

Additionally, second or third generation migrant start to drift over to republican, so again, even if whites become the minority, that in itself doesn't indicate the demise of the Republican party.

Lastly, their are big sections of the US, (North East, California, Chicago, where whites are worried about becoming the minority, nobody cares. Paycheques, mortgages, college tuition are far more important issues than the colour of the political representatives.

Deary me.

It's amazing how some people will try to twist a point and throw back a strawman that wasn't used.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 11:44:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.
It must be. Any chance you might tell us what it feels like, given that you so obviously experience such?

Come up with something original Sid. That's the sort of response you expect from an 8 year old. You and Eamonnca1 must be swapping notes at elementary school.

Since you are celebrating it, how about explaining how whites being a minority will benefit the US.
Or is this just a case of wanting to be a minority so you can pretend you are oppressed and gain victim status?
Democrats love nothing more than playing the victim.
You're projecting again.  ;D

How does whites being a majority benefit the US?

Whites being a minority would of course benefit the US because the current white majority tends to vote in larger numbers for deeply regressive, racist, kleptocratic politics.

A majority-minority situation would mean that such politics could likely never again win. That would be great thing.

You do realise by engaging with me in such a hostile manner on this subject you're only proving me right, yes?  ;D

Your victim mindset makes you believe I've been hostile Sid. I was asking you questions to understand your viewpoint.

The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

This model appears to be the aim for current democrats to force upon US citizens. Who can't wait for the drug cartels to hang people off bridges? Gangs in schools stabbing fellow pupils.

So Sid, is this the new American dream you always wished for?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 16, 2019, 11:55:47 AM
Adolph the imaginary victim projecting again and refusing to answer any questions again, exactly the same as every post since he registered, and when he was foxkkkommander.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 16, 2019, 12:06:25 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 11:44:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.
It must be. Any chance you might tell us what it feels like, given that you so obviously experience such?

Come up with something original Sid. That's the sort of response you expect from an 8 year old. You and Eamonnca1 must be swapping notes at elementary school.

Since you are celebrating it, how about explaining how whites being a minority will benefit the US.
Or is this just a case of wanting to be a minority so you can pretend you are oppressed and gain victim status?
Democrats love nothing more than playing the victim.
You're projecting again.  ;D

How does whites being a majority benefit the US?

Whites being a minority would of course benefit the US because the current white majority tends to vote in larger numbers for deeply regressive, racist, kleptocratic politics.

A majority-minority situation would mean that such politics could likely never again win. That would be great thing.

You do realise by engaging with me in such a hostile manner on this subject you're only proving me right, yes?  ;D

Your victim mindset makes you believe I've been hostile Sid. I was asking you questions to understand your viewpoint.

The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

This model appears to be the aim for current democrats to force upon US citizens. Who can't wait for the drug cartels to hang people off bridges? Gangs in schools stabbing fellow pupils.

So Sid, is this the new American dream you always wished for?
A stunning glimpse of your insight in to history, US foreign policy in Central America and the War on Drugs rolled in to one post!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 12:46:54 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 11:44:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.
It must be. Any chance you might tell us what it feels like, given that you so obviously experience such?

Come up with something original Sid. That's the sort of response you expect from an 8 year old. You and Eamonnca1 must be swapping notes at elementary school.

Since you are celebrating it, how about explaining how whites being a minority will benefit the US.
Or is this just a case of wanting to be a minority so you can pretend you are oppressed and gain victim status?
Democrats love nothing more than playing the victim.
You're projecting again.  ;D

How does whites being a majority benefit the US?

Whites being a minority would of course benefit the US because the current white majority tends to vote in larger numbers for deeply regressive, racist, kleptocratic politics.

A majority-minority situation would mean that such politics could likely never again win. That would be great thing.

You do realise by engaging with me in such a hostile manner on this subject you're only proving me right, yes?  ;D

Your victim mindset makes you believe I've been hostile Sid. I was asking you questions to understand your viewpoint.

The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

This model appears to be the aim for current democrats to force upon US citizens. Who can't wait for the drug cartels to hang people off bridges? Gangs in schools stabbing fellow pupils.

So Sid, is this the new American dream you always wished for?


The absolute and complete lack of knowledge, understanding of history and straight up bigotry in this post is stunning.

United States success story.

Societies built in Central America.

Dunning Kruger, delusions of grandeur, god complex, white saviour narrative.

Is that you DT?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 01:00:19 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 05:47:46 AM
Whitey,
How can you agree with Trump on taxes and regulation?

He doesn't have a tax policy, and while I'm good with deregulating business surely some protection of the health of Americans and the environment may be a win all around?

Will we get something different from this?

Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 08:08:09 PM

How will a 6-3 Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years or more benefit you or any of the rest of us?

I really just want to see liberal heads explode
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 12:46:54 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 11:44:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 15, 2019, 06:33:02 PM

It must be awful to go through life with such a sense of low self-worth and a disturbing level of self-loathing.
It must be. Any chance you might tell us what it feels like, given that you so obviously experience such?

Come up with something original Sid. That's the sort of response you expect from an 8 year old. You and Eamonnca1 must be swapping notes at elementary school.

Since you are celebrating it, how about explaining how whites being a minority will benefit the US.
Or is this just a case of wanting to be a minority so you can pretend you are oppressed and gain victim status?
Democrats love nothing more than playing the victim.
You're projecting again.  ;D

How does whites being a majority benefit the US?

Whites being a minority would of course benefit the US because the current white majority tends to vote in larger numbers for deeply regressive, racist, kleptocratic politics.

A majority-minority situation would mean that such politics could likely never again win. That would be great thing.

You do realise by engaging with me in such a hostile manner on this subject you're only proving me right, yes?  ;D

Your victim mindset makes you believe I've been hostile Sid. I was asking you questions to understand your viewpoint.

The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

This model appears to be the aim for current democrats to force upon US citizens. Who can't wait for the drug cartels to hang people off bridges? Gangs in schools stabbing fellow pupils.

So Sid, is this the new American dream you always wished for?


The absolute and complete lack of knowledge, understanding of history and straight up bigotry in this post is stunning.

United States success story.

Societies built in Central America.

Dunning Kruger, delusions of grandeur, god complex, white saviour narrative.

Is that you DT?

Stating facts is not bigotry. Are you saying that drug cartels do not hang opponents from bridges in Mexico or that MS13 gangs in schools are not stabbing students?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:29:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 01:00:19 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 05:47:46 AM
Whitey,
How can you agree with Trump on taxes and regulation?

He doesn't have a tax policy, and while I'm good with deregulating business surely some protection of the health of Americans and the environment may be a win all around?

Will we get something different from this?

Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 08:08:09 PM

How will a 6-3 Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years or more benefit you or any of the rest of us?

I really just want to see liberal heads explode

Enjoying seeing idiots get offended by everything and anything and then tying themselves up in knots trying to outdo each other in the PC stakes is not an endorsement of Trump

Regarding the Supreme Court I said at the time that Merrick Garland should have gotten his hearing and being confirmed. Of course I will support a Republican SJC nominee to replace a Republican SJC nominee, especially someone as well qualified and respected as justice Kavanaugh (in spite of the disgraceful attempted hit job)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 01:35:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:29:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 01:00:19 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 05:47:46 AM
Whitey,
How can you agree with Trump on taxes and regulation?

He doesn't have a tax policy, and while I'm good with deregulating business surely some protection of the health of Americans and the environment may be a win all around?

Will we get something different from this?

Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2019, 08:08:09 PM

How will a 6-3 Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years or more benefit you or any of the rest of us?

I really just want to see liberal heads explode

Enjoying seeing idiots get offended by everything and anything and then tying themselves up in knots trying to outdo each other in the PC stakes is not an endorsement of Trump

Regarding the Supreme Court I said at the time that Merrick Garland should have gotten his hearing and being confirmed. Of course I will support a Republican SJC nominee to replace a Republican SJC nominee, especially someone as well qualified and respected as justice Kavanaugh (in spite of the disgraceful attempted hit job)

And you STILL haven't answered the questions!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:36:50 PM
What's the question?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:36:50 PM
What's the question?

See Heganboy's post, and mine about the Supreme Court which you answered with the exploding liberal heads comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:36:50 PM
What's the question?

See Heganboy's post, and mine about the Supreme Court which you answered with the exploding liberal heads comment.

What exactly is the question? You made an statement and put a question mark at the end of it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 02:03:18 PM
Also the only part that you state as fact is this:


The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

Pretty simple to argue with all of those "facts", like the flat Earth.

After that you start with "appears to be" , and "can't wait", both uses of language which are conditional terms and then your own speculation leading to opinion to which you are more than welcome.

So speculate away, spout away, repeat a jumble of incoherent crap that you heard from one racist fear mongering source and claim it as your own malformed opinion, but don't call it fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 02:26:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 02:03:18 PM
Also the only part that you state as fact is this:


The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

Pretty simple to argue with all of those "facts", like the flat Earth.

After that you start with "appears to be" , and "can't wait", both uses of language which are conditional terms and then your own speculation leading to opinion to which you are more than welcome.

So speculate away, spout away, repeat a jumble of incoherent crap that you heard from one racist fear mongering source and claim it as your own malformed opinion, but don't call it fact.

It's not some fear mongering source...it's the liberal beloved CNN.

Fact: http://longisland.news12.com/story/39763068/police-ms13-members-stabbed-classmate-in-huntington-station

Fact: https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/americas/mexico-bodies-bridge/index.html

I await your apology.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 02:44:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 02:26:14 PM
It's not some fear mongering source...it's the liberal beloved CNN.

Fact: http://longisland.news12.com/story/39763068/police-ms13-members-stabbed-classmate-in-huntington-station

Fact: https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/americas/mexico-bodies-bridge/index.html

I await your apology.

I stand corrected. CNN actually is a fear mongering source. Hysteria daily, unhinged commentators and presenters riling up a brainwashed viewership to repeat their slogans and take the likes of Maxine Waters, Pelosi, Sharpton etc. seriously.

Biggest danger for the US is how these viewers can't think for themselves.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 02:49:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:36:50 PM
What's the question?

See Heganboy's post, and mine about the Supreme Court which you answered with the exploding liberal heads comment.

What exactly is the question? You made an statement and put a question mark at the end of it

How will a 6-3 Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years or more benefit you or any of the rest of us?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 03:12:10 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 02:44:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 02:26:14 PM
It's not some fear mongering source...it's the liberal beloved CNN.

Fact: http://longisland.news12.com/story/39763068/police-ms13-members-stabbed-classmate-in-huntington-station

Fact: https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/americas/mexico-bodies-bridge/index.html

I await your apology.

I stand corrected. CNN actually is a fear mongering source. Hysteria daily, unhinged commentators and presenters riling up a brainwashed viewership to repeat their slogans and take the likes of Maxine Waters, Pelosi, Sharpton etc. seriously.

Biggest danger for the US is how these viewers can't think for themselves.

Out of all the people and leaders on the left, you single out Sharpton and Waters to complete the list of fever swamp bogeymen... another tick in the Foxcommander column.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 02:49:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:36:50 PM
What's the question?

See Heganboy's post, and mine about the Supreme Court which you answered with the exploding liberal heads comment.

What exactly is the question? You made an statement and put a question mark at the end of it

How will a 6-3 Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years or more benefit you or any of the rest of us?

That question doesn't make sense

We have a Republican President. Of course he should appoint conservative judges, just like Obama appointed liberal judges.

The only reason we have the Federalist Society involved is that somehow past Republican presidents got duped into appointing liberals

Interesting how none of the Democratic appointees even end up the swing vote or on the right. I'm sure they have some internal litmus test that they apply.  FFS Obama even appointed Kagan who was never even a judge so nothing could be pinned in her during the hearings
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 03:28:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 02:49:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 01:36:50 PM
What's the question?

See Heganboy's post, and mine about the Supreme Court which you answered with the exploding liberal heads comment.

What exactly is the question? You made an statement and put a question mark at the end of it

How will a 6-3 Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years or more benefit you or any of the rest of us?

That question doesn't make sense

We have a Republican President. Of course he should appoint conservative judges, just like Obama appointed liberal judges.

The only reason we have the Federalist Society involved is that somehow past Republican presidents got duped into appointing liberals

Interesting how none of the Democratic appointees even end up the swing vote or on the right. I'm sure they have some internal litmus test that they apply.  FFS Obama even appointed Kagan who was never even a judge so nothing could be pinned in her during the hearings

If you don't want to answer just say so.

You've expressed, on numerous occasions, support for Trump appointing justices, even joking about Bader Ginsberg's health or retirement. Given that all GOP justices come from the Federalist Society, you support that too, but call it a conservative majority if you wish.

If you're happy to see Trump put these justices on the court, ensuring a majority for probably the next generation, then one would assume you have real legitimate reasons. So far, the only reasons you've given are your satisfaction at seeing liberals upset and fearful. Which is a pretty poor and vacuous reason for anything.

So I'm asking you (again), what are your reasons? How is this Supreme Court with the conservative majority for the next generation going to benefit you or any of the rest of us?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
I guess I don't get the nuances of your question

I would imagine Liberals would want a Democratic President to appoint Liberal judges

How is wanting a a Republican President to appoint Conservative judges an extreme view or an endorsement of Trump?

There were plenty of people on the left calling for RBG to retire early in Obama's second term. Why did she stick around? Was she waiting for her replacement to be picked by the first woman President?

On top of that she had made blatantly political statements which should disqualify her from voting on anything to do with Trump. Maybe she could head off to New Zealand on vacation with that crew from Liverpool who just got deported. She might keep them in line

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 03:51:53 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 02:26:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 02:03:18 PM
Also the only part that you state as fact is this:


The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

Pretty simple to argue with all of those "facts", like the flat Earth.

After that you start with "appears to be" , and "can't wait", both uses of language which are conditional terms and then your own speculation leading to opinion to which you are more than welcome.

So speculate away, spout away, repeat a jumble of incoherent crap that you heard from one racist fear mongering source and claim it as your own malformed opinion, but don't call it fact.

It's not some fear mongering source...it's the liberal beloved CNN.

Fact: http://longisland.news12.com/story/39763068/police-ms13-members-stabbed-classmate-in-huntington-station

Fact: https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/americas/mexico-bodies-bridge/index.html

I await your apology.

I know you are struggling with the concept here- but as far as your own post goes- you are now pointing to news stories that support your speculation of what may happen in the future.

The facts that you pointed to were :
Quote
The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

so again without an apology

Quotespout away, repeat a jumble of incoherent crap that you heard from one racist fear mongering source and claim it as your own malformed opinion, but don't call it fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
I guess I don't get the nuances of your question

I would imagine Liberals would want a Democratic President to appoint Liberal judges

How is wanting a a Republican President to appoint Conservative judges an extreme view or an endorsement of Trump?

There were plenty of people on the left calling for RBG to retire early in Obama's second term. Why did she stick around? Was she waiting for her replacement to be picked by the first woman President?

On top of that she had made blatantly political statements which should disqualify her from voting on anything to do with Trump. Maybe she could head off to New Zealand on vacation with that crew from Liverpool who just got deported. She might keep them in line

I'm not talking about the politics and hypocrisy of who does what and where or when.

I'm asking you why a conservative Supreme Court, which you support, and which has been a focus of the US right (very effectively so) for the past 35 years, should be seen as a positive for the US?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 04:05:16 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 03:51:53 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 02:26:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 02:03:18 PM
Also the only part that you state as fact is this:


The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

Pretty simple to argue with all of those "facts", like the flat Earth.

After that you start with "appears to be" , and "can't wait", both uses of language which are conditional terms and then your own speculation leading to opinion to which you are more than welcome.

So speculate away, spout away, repeat a jumble of incoherent crap that you heard from one racist fear mongering source and claim it as your own malformed opinion, but don't call it fact.

It's not some fear mongering source...it's the liberal beloved CNN.

Fact: http://longisland.news12.com/story/39763068/police-ms13-members-stabbed-classmate-in-huntington-station

Fact: https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/americas/mexico-bodies-bridge/index.html

I await your apology.

I know you are struggling with the concept here- but as far as your own post goes- you are now pointing to news stories that support your speculation of what may happen in the future.

The facts that you pointed to were :
Quote
The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

so again without an apology

Quotespout away, repeat a jumble of incoherent crap that you heard from one racist fear mongering source and claim it as your own malformed opinion, but don't call it fact.

We already know liberals don't do apologies, especially for their behavior in the last 2 years.
I gave you facts.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 16, 2019, 04:33:18 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 04:05:16 PM

I gave you facts.

(https://i.imgflip.com/1ic4bj.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 05:07:33 PM
Alternative facts

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/5185%2BNF4KBL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 16, 2019, 05:24:28 PM
No State of the Union for the orange one . . . Hasn't taken Nancy long to find her groove!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 16, 2019, 05:37:48 PM
Been told what to do by a woman - he won't like that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
I guess I don't get the nuances of your question

I would imagine Liberals would want a Democratic President to appoint Liberal judges

How is wanting a a Republican President to appoint Conservative judges an extreme view or an endorsement of Trump?

There were plenty of people on the left calling for RBG to retire early in Obama's second term. Why did she stick around? Was she waiting for her replacement to be picked by the first woman President?

On top of that she had made blatantly political statements which should disqualify her from voting on anything to do with Trump. Maybe she could head off to New Zealand on vacation with that crew from Liverpool who just got deported. She might keep them in line

I'm not talking about the politics and hypocrisy of who does what and where or when.

I'm asking you why a conservative Supreme Court, which you support, and which has been a focus of the US right (very effectively so) for the past 35 years, should be seen as a positive for the US?

Would a left wing court be seen as positive for the US?

If Hillary has won, that's what we would have had
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 06:23:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 05:39:27 PM
Would a left wing court be seen as positive for the US?


Game over for civilized society in the USA if that happens. The Obama disaster years was bad enough.

Thank god for President Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2019, 06:26:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
How is wanting a a Republican President to appoint Conservative judges an extreme view or an endorsement of Trump?

I wouldn't have a problem with a Republican President appointing Supreme Court Justices if he were legitimately elected. Trump was not legitimately elected. Over two million more people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump. He is not a legitimate president, he is a Russian agent, and the less control he has over the institutions the safer we're going to be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 06:38:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
I guess I don't get the nuances of your question

I would imagine Liberals would want a Democratic President to appoint Liberal judges

How is wanting a a Republican President to appoint Conservative judges an extreme view or an endorsement of Trump?

There were plenty of people on the left calling for RBG to retire early in Obama's second term. Why did she stick around? Was she waiting for her replacement to be picked by the first woman President?

On top of that she had made blatantly political statements which should disqualify her from voting on anything to do with Trump. Maybe she could head off to New Zealand on vacation with that crew from Liverpool who just got deported. She might keep them in line

I'm not talking about the politics and hypocrisy of who does what and where or when.

I'm asking you why a conservative Supreme Court, which you support, and which has been a focus of the US right (very effectively so) for the past 35 years, should be seen as a positive for the US?

Would a left wing court be seen as positive for the US?

If Hillary has won, that's what we would have had

So you have nothing to offer? No defense of Citizens United and the like? No defense of workplace arbitration? No defense of gerrymandering? No defense of the coming ban on access to abortion? No defense of allowing companies to opt out of having their health insurance plans cover contraception? These are all important matters on the right.

On the other hand, to name a couple, if Hillary had won, LBGTQ rights would definitely be protected.

There would be restrictions on the wanton environmental exploitation and destruction that Trump and his henhouse foxes seem determined to inflict on US public and other lands and waters.

The Supreme Court might push back on the tipping of the balance completely in favour of corporations when it comes to worker rights and protections and their ability to combine cases.

There might be some hope of some sanity on the gun front.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 06:44:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2019, 06:26:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
How is wanting a a Republican President to appoint Conservative judges an extreme view or an endorsement of Trump?

I wouldn't have a problem with a Republican President appointing Supreme Court Justices if he were legitimately elected. Trump was not legitimately elected. Over two million more people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump. He is not a legitimate president, he is a Russian agent, and the less control he has over the institutions the safer we're going to be.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D This has just made my day!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

NURSE!!!! He's run out of meltdown pills again!!!

(http://greginhollywood.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Rachel_Maddow-400x258.jpg)

Very very sad person in 2016 who takes same pills.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 07:07:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2019, 06:26:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
How is wanting a a Republican President to appoint Conservative judges an extreme view or an endorsement of Trump?

I wouldn't have a problem with a Republican President appointing Supreme Court Justices if he were legitimately elected. Trump was not legitimately elected. Over two million more people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump. He is not a legitimate president, he is a Russian agent, and the less control he has over the institutions the safer we're going to be.
m

The President is elected by the "Electoral College". It's one of the questions on the citizenship exam if you haven't taken it yet

Trump won the "Electoral College" vote. The system is the system

The entirety of Clinton's popular vote victory was garnished from the state of California. The whole point of the EC is that one or a small handful of states wouldn't be able to do dominate the Presidential Election but believe whatever you want


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2019, 06:26:16 PM
Trump was not legitimately elected. Over two million more people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump. He is not a legitimate president, he is a Russian agent, and the less control he has over the institutions the safer we're going to be.

Hey Sid/EamonnCa1

Democrat alternative fact alert

Election result according to the above
President Trump's 302 votes is less than Hillary Clinton's 224 Votes.

Let's call it Alternative Math ;)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 06:38:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
I guess I don't get the nuances of your question

I would imagine Liberals would want a Democratic President to appoint Liberal judges

How is wanting a a Republican President to appoint Conservative judges an extreme view or an endorsement of Trump?

There were plenty of people on the left calling for RBG to retire early in Obama's second term. Why did she stick around? Was she waiting for her replacement to be picked by the first woman President?

On top of that she had made blatantly political statements which should disqualify her from voting on anything to do with Trump. Maybe she could head off to New Zealand on vacation with that crew from Liverpool who just got deported. She might keep them in line

I'm not talking about the politics and hypocrisy of who does what and where or when.

I'm asking you why a conservative Supreme Court, which you support, and which has been a focus of the US right (very effectively so) for the past 35 years, should be seen as a positive for the US?

Would a left wing court be seen as positive for the US?

If Hillary has won, that's what we would have had

So you have nothing to offer? No defense of Citizens United and the like? No defense of workplace arbitration? No defense of gerrymandering? No defense of the coming ban on access to abortion? No defense of allowing companies to opt out of having their health insurance plans cover contraception? These are all important matters on the right.

On the other hand, to name a couple, if Hillary had won, LBGTQ rights would definitely be protected.

There would be restrictions on the wanton environmental exploitation and destruction that Trump and his henhouse foxes seem determined to inflict on US public and other lands and waters.

The Supreme Court might push back on the tipping of the balance completely in favour of corporations when it comes to worker rights and protections and their ability to combine cases.

There might be some hope of some sanity on the gun front.

Citizens United my hole.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-judiciary/308686-democrats-complained-about-citizens-united-until-the-cash%3famp

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/04/02/the-democrats-campaign-finance-hypocrisy/?utm_term=.032b0bda0f18
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 08:01:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 06:38:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
I guess I don't get the nuances of your question

I would imagine Liberals would want a Democratic President to appoint Liberal judges

How is wanting a a Republican President to appoint Conservative judges an extreme view or an endorsement of Trump?

There were plenty of people on the left calling for RBG to retire early in Obama's second term. Why did she stick around? Was she waiting for her replacement to be picked by the first woman President?

On top of that she had made blatantly political statements which should disqualify her from voting on anything to do with Trump. Maybe she could head off to New Zealand on vacation with that crew from Liverpool who just got deported. She might keep them in line

I'm not talking about the politics and hypocrisy of who does what and where or when.

I'm asking you why a conservative Supreme Court, which you support, and which has been a focus of the US right (very effectively so) for the past 35 years, should be seen as a positive for the US?

Would a left wing court be seen as positive for the US?

If Hillary has won, that's what we would have had

So you have nothing to offer? No defense of Citizens United and the like? No defense of workplace arbitration? No defense of gerrymandering? No defense of the coming ban on access to abortion? No defense of allowing companies to opt out of having their health insurance plans cover contraception? These are all important matters on the right.

On the other hand, to name a couple, if Hillary had won, LBGTQ rights would definitely be protected.

There would be restrictions on the wanton environmental exploitation and destruction that Trump and his henhouse foxes seem determined to inflict on US public and other lands and waters.

The Supreme Court might push back on the tipping of the balance completely in favour of corporations when it comes to worker rights and protections and their ability to combine cases.

There might be some hope of some sanity on the gun front.

Citizens United my hole.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-judiciary/308686-democrats-complained-about-citizens-united-until-the-cash%3famp

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/04/02/the-democrats-campaign-finance-hypocrisy/?utm_term=.032b0bda0f18

So still nothing to say. Its all about watching the libtards squirm. Carry on...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 08:44:16 PM
i Just have you a defense of Citizens United-from the WAPO no less

When Democrats lose....it's money in politics to blame. Then they outraise the Republicans 2:1 and they still lose

Let me think.....ah I have it......they're losing due to voter suppression-but somehow miracously Obama wins twice and nery a word of voter suppression

I know......it must be the Russians. Gosh darn them they, forced the Democrats to have a coronation instead of a nomination and even went so far as to plant her classified emails in Anthony Wienars laptop

Ah....that muther bleepin Electoral College.....you know it's based on rascism and white supremacy.  Quick let's amend the constitution

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 08:55:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 08:44:16 PM
i Just have you a defense of Citizens United-from the WAPO no less



No you didn't. You posted articles on how the Dems are playing on the field created by Citizens United, therefore, it was the right Supreme Court decision. That's not a defense.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 08:55:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 08:44:16 PM
i Just have you a defense of Citizens United-from the WAPO no less



No you didn't. You posted articles on how the Dems are playing on the field created by Citizens United, therefore, it was the right Supreme Court decision. That's not a defense.

Keep twisting. Dems were against CU because they thought it gave an advantage to The Republicans. Instead it gave them an advantage. Outrage over Citizens united is a pile of utter nonsense.

Outrage outrage outrage over everything. Outrage over outrage or lack there of. Outrage over intensity and timeliness of outrage. Outrage over a dancing video. Outrage that Republicans were outraged at the outrage of a Congresswoman dancing when she was in college. Outrage over gender neutral pronouns. Outrage that I'm outraged that a man can go into a ladies bathroom. (I'm not BTW) Outraged over a Christmas tree on the stage of the nutcracker. Outrage that people aren outraged that the PTA cancelled the trip to the Nutcracker. Outrage over the enforcement of border laws. Outrage over kids in cages. Outraged that I didn't check to see that that the kids in cages outrage was perpetrated under Obama
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 16, 2019, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2019, 08:55:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 08:44:16 PM
i Just have you a defense of Citizens United-from the WAPO no less



No you didn't. You posted articles on how the Dems are playing on the field created by Citizens United, therefore, it was the right Supreme Court decision. That's not a defense.

Keep twisting. Dems were against CU because they thought it gave an advantage to The Republicans. Instead it gave them an advantage. Outrage over Citizens united is a pile of utter nonsense.

Outrage outrage outrage over everything. Outrage over outrage or lack there of. Outrage over intensity and timeliness of outrage. Outrage over a dancing video. Outrage that Republicans were outraged at the outrage of a Congresswoman dancing when she was in college. Outrage over gender neutral pronouns. Outrage that I'm outraged that a man can go into a ladies bathroom. (I'm not BTW) Outraged over a Christmas tree on the stage of the nutcracker. Outrage that people aren outraged that the PTA cancelled the trip to the Nutcracker. Outrage over the enforcement of border laws. Outrage over kids in cages. Outraged that I didn't check to see that that the kids in cages outrage was perpetrated under Obama

Still no defense of or positive support in favour of a conservative Supreme Court.

You're spewing on about "outrage"; meanwhile your entire political outlook as espoused on this discussion board is based on your negative perception of the " mainstream media" and supposed liberal/Democratic hypocrisy. N'er a positive word in defense of the GOP or conservative principles in general. The very epitome of the politics of grievance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 10:01:36 PM
Why would I need to defend a Conservative Supreme Court?

Whoever wins the election gets to decide who's on the court

I wouldn't expect you to defend a Liberal court if Hillary had won nor would I expect my Liberal friends to Be wringing their hands or gnashing their teeth either.

Elections have consequences and after Obama's 2 picks having a Republican pick 2/3 is no harm

I think it is a good thing if there is a balance on the court, but based on how disgracefully the Democrats behaved over Kavanaugh I think it would be great Karma if Trump stuck another conservative on the court. They now deserve to be railroaded in my opinion, because it's clear they will stop at absolutely nothing to gain and hold power (exactly like the Republicans)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 16, 2019, 10:09:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 10:01:36 PM
Why would I need to defend a Conservative Supreme Court?

Whoever wins the election gets to decide who's on the court

I wouldn't expect you to defend a Liberal court if Hillary had won nor would I expect my Liberal friends to Be wringing their hands or gnashing their teeth either.

Elections have consequences and after Obama's 2 picks having a Republican pick 2/3 is no harm

I think it is a good thing if there is a balance on the court, but based on how disgracefully the Democrats behaved over Kavanaugh I think it would be great Karma if Trump stuck another conservative on the court. They now deserve to be railroaded in my opinion, because it's clear they will stop at absolutely nothing to gain and hold power (exactly like the Republicans)



Did you think that the Republicans behaved disgracefully over Merrick Garland?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: dec on January 16, 2019, 10:09:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 10:01:36 PM
Why would I need to defend a Conservative Supreme Court?

Whoever wins the election gets to decide who's on the court

I wouldn't expect you to defend a Liberal court if Hillary had won nor would I expect my Liberal friends to Be wringing their hands or gnashing their teeth either.

Elections have consequences and after Obama's 2 picks having a Republican pick 2/3 is no harm

I think it is a good thing if there is a balance on the court, but based on how disgracefully the Democrats behaved over Kavanaugh I think it would be great Karma if Trump stuck another conservative on the court. They now deserve to be railroaded in my opinion, because it's clear they will stop at absolutely nothing to gain and hold power (exactly like the Republicans)



Did you think that the Republicans behaved disgracefully over Merrick Garland?

Yes....and I have said so many times on here.

I'm not a Republican. I'm a conservative who usually votes Republican but I have voted for and donated money to Democrats in the past
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2019, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 07:07:06 PM
The President is elected by the "Electoral College". It's one of the questions on the citizenship exam if you haven't taken it yet

Trump won the "Electoral College" vote. The system is the system
Thank you, Whitey. I'm aware of that.

Quote
The entirety of Clinton's popular vote victory was garnished from the state of California.
And...? California's a US state, is it not? Why should its votes be worth less than any other state?

Quote
The whole point of the EC is that one or a small handful of states wouldn't be able to do dominate the Presidential Election but believe whatever you want

The point of the EC was a sop to slave-owning states who had a hard time with the concept of democracy and who wanted a veto over the majority. The EC is affirmative action for rednecks. The EC, along with partisan gerrymandering, enables the tyranny of minority rule. One Wyoming voter has roughly the same voting power as four New Yorkers. How is that democratic?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 16, 2019, 10:59:38 PM
So if we flipped the populations of California with that of TX and a bunch of gun totin, bible bashing rednecks got to have the deciding vote in every presidential election from here on out.....would you still be in favor of abolishing the EC?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/311882-liberals-who-claim-electoral-college-is-racist-need%3famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/hey-liberals-youre-doing-yourselves-no-favor-by-clamoring-for-an-end-to-the-electoral-college/2018/10/24/8b052458-d7d1-11e8-aeb7-ddcad4a0a54e_story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on January 16, 2019, 11:19:39 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 03:51:53 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 16, 2019, 02:26:14 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2019, 02:03:18 PM
Also the only part that you state as fact is this:


The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

Pretty simple to argue with all of those "facts", like the flat Earth.

After that you start with "appears to be" , and "can't wait", both uses of language which are conditional terms and then your own speculation leading to opinion to which you are more than welcome.

So speculate away, spout away, repeat a jumble of incoherent crap that you heard from one racist fear mongering source and claim it as your own malformed opinion, but don't call it fact.

It's not some fear mongering source...it's the liberal beloved CNN.

Fact: http://longisland.news12.com/story/39763068/police-ms13-members-stabbed-classmate-in-huntington-station

Fact: https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/americas/mexico-bodies-bridge/index.html

I await your apology.

I know you are struggling with the concept here- but as far as your own post goes- you are now pointing to news stories that support your speculation of what may happen in the future.

The facts that you pointed to were :
Quote
The United States success story is due to the people who inhabited it at the time.
Contrast with Mexico and Central America. Look at the fantastic societies they have built. So good they can't get out fast enough.

so again without an apology

Quotespout away, repeat a jumble of incoherent crap that you heard from one racist fear mongering source and claim it as your own malformed opinion, but don't call it fact.

I would say that America's success is down to immigrants, who showed initiative when deciding to leave their home country, who continued using that initiative to make it in the new country.

Self starters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 17, 2019, 01:08:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 16, 2019, 10:01:36 PM
Why would I need to defend a Conservative Supreme Court?

Whoever wins the election gets to decide who's on the court

I wouldn't expect you to defend a Liberal court if Hillary had won nor would I expect my Liberal friends to Be wringing their hands or gnashing their teeth either.

Elections have consequences and after Obama's 2 picks having a Republican pick 2/3 is no harm

I think it is a good thing if there is a balance on the court, but based on how disgracefully the Democrats behaved over Kavanaugh I think it would be great Karma if Trump stuck another conservative on the court. They now deserve to be railroaded in my opinion, because it's clear they will stop at absolutely nothing to gain and hold power (exactly like the Republicans)

You don't have to defend anything if you don't want to.

I'm simply looking for a conservative opinion on why a conservative Supreme Court is a good thing. You've stated on multiple occasions how conservative Supreme Court nominations excite you and are one of the reasons you are happy Trump is there despite your otherwise overall opposition to him. Yet now you appear incapable of offering any opinion on why you would be happy, beyond the "making liberal heads explode" horseshit.

But anyway, I'll drop it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 17, 2019, 01:32:32 AM
An extreme court is a bad thing....whether its extreme left or extreme right

From what I have seen each side paints the others as extremists even when theyre not

FFS if you listened to Democrats in MA, Charlie Baker is an extremist

http://newtondems.org/dems/2017/9/29/charlie-baker-dont-believe-the-hype
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 17, 2019, 06:57:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 17, 2019, 01:32:32 AM
An extreme court is a bad thing....whether its extreme left or extreme right

From what I have seen each side paints the others as extremists even when theyre not

FFS if you listened to Democrats in MA, Charlie Baker is an extremist

http://newtondems.org/dems/2017/9/29/charlie-baker-dont-believe-the-hype

You are a gobshite, Whitey

Trump is a project to pauperise people like you.
You bought it

"Trump is good at lying, and creating crisis and spectacle—exactly the qualities for the perfect leader of a Russian United States.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Teri_Kanefield/status/1037730182294061057

https://mobile.twitter.com/Teri_Kanefield/status/1042073352695734272

https://youtu.be/ZJe4NlOjAJo


Teri Kanefield

@Teri_Kanefield
·
Sep 18



15/ Most of this info was available, but the 2016 election coverage was dominated by Her Emails.

Why? Because Americans weren't prepared for Russian style propaganda & disinformation.

And because spreading simple lies is easier than understanding—& talking about—complex crimes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 17, 2019, 03:26:07 PM
first of all while I'm a capitalist- not a liberal.
second liberal is not the pejorative term you think it is.

I see that you are struggling with written comprehension of something that you actually put together yourself.

You believe you stated facts about the success of the US, and Central american societies. I called you out saying
Quotespout away, repeat a jumble of incoherent crap that you heard from one racist fear mongering source and claim it as your own malformed opinion, but don't call it fact.

you then speculated on what you see happening in the future- fine - your opinion. You then posted cnn stories backing up your speculation.

now i believe you are seeking an apology from liberals for the last two years- non sequitur
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 17, 2019, 04:55:52 PM
Bob Menendez (Democrat - New Jersey) hard at work during the shutdown on a lobbyist junket in Puerto Rico.

(https://www.wnd.com/files/2019/01/bob-menendez-tw-david-mcalpine.jpg)

Caption competition anyone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 17, 2019, 05:12:26 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 17, 2019, 04:55:52 PM
Bob Menendez (Democrat - New Jersey) hard at work during the shutdown on a lobbyist junket in Puerto Rico.

(https://www.wnd.com/files/2019/01/bob-menendez-tw-david-mcalpine.jpg)

Caption competition anyone?

I don't get it??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 17, 2019, 09:13:43 PM
So what you're saying is, Trump owns the government shut down on live TV.  Shutdown into 4th week. US economy suffering. Government workers missing mortgage payments, their credit scores are being destroyed, 30% of affected staff have less than 1 month worth of savings. Trump can't travel anywhere and is losing his shit eating McDonalds in the White House and is being made to look like a spoiled child that lost his Nintendo by Nancy Pelosi (to steal a NY Yankees chant who's your Mammy?)

But you want to pick on the Democrat that went on holiday?

Do you run out of fingers when doing your maths homework?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2019, 05:23:17 AM
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/trump-russia-cohen-moscow-tower-mueller-investigation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 11:57:46 AM
The ultimate 10 year challenge

(https://www.laprensa.hn/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=Z5oYBM$L9YbLeRbRcna_4s$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYuo7XNRA8XMyJUmrXd9SnVp6FB40xiOfUoExWL3M40tfzssyZqpeG_J0TFo7ZhRaDiHC9oxmioMlYVJD0A$3RbIiibgT65kY_CSDiCiUzvHvODrHApbd6ry6YGl5GGOZrs-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg)

What a massive improvement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 18, 2019, 12:07:48 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 11:57:46 AM
The ultimate 10 year challenge

(https://www.laprensa.hn/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=Z5oYBM$L9YbLeRbRcna_4s$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYuo7XNRA8XMyJUmrXd9SnVp6FB40xiOfUoExWL3M40tfzssyZqpeG_J0TFo7ZhRaDiHC9oxmioMlYVJD0A$3RbIiibgT65kY_CSDiCiUzvHvODrHApbd6ry6YGl5GGOZrs-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg)

What a massive improvement.

That must be Donnie's "blue steel" pose;

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxB1oiO_rCIVLVDrLxxGMUa_-UnzbzxaUez4DoR3CM5qcL41Uf)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 18, 2019, 03:10:03 PM
Trump's letter to Pelosi backfired badly on him as Security Service have advised the President's announcement "significantly increased the danger to the delegation, troops , security and other officials supporting the trip"

The Trump Shutdown isn't getting any better!!

QuoteSpeaking to Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in the Oval Office, Trump said on December 11, "I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. ... I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it."

What an idiot!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 03:46:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 18, 2019, 03:10:03 PM
Trump's letter to Pelosi backfired badly on him as Security Service have advised the President's announcement "significantly increased the danger to the delegation, troops , security and other officials supporting the trip"

The Trump Shutdown isn't getting any better!!

QuoteSpeaking to Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in the Oval Office, Trump said on December 11, "I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. ... I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it."

What an idiot!!!

How can it increase the danger to the trip? She's not going.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2019, 04:22:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 03:46:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 18, 2019, 03:10:03 PM
Trump's letter to Pelosi backfired badly on him as Security Service have advised the President's announcement "significantly increased the danger to the delegation, troops , security and other officials supporting the trip"

The Trump Shutdown isn't getting any better!!

QuoteSpeaking to Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in the Oval Office, Trump said on December 11, "I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. ... I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it."

What an idiot!!!

How can it increase the danger to the trip? She's not going.

Probably not, now that anyone who might have been interested in targeting the delegation now knows that a trip was in the works.

This from a man who just two weeks ago was boasting to the soldiers over there about how Air Force One, on an unannounced trip, had to be flown in silent with all the lights off to avoid terrorist threats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 18, 2019, 04:25:12 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 03:46:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 18, 2019, 03:10:03 PM
Trump's letter to Pelosi backfired badly on him as Security Service have advised the President's announcement "significantly increased the danger to the delegation, troops , security and other officials supporting the trip"

The Trump Shutdown isn't getting any better!!

QuoteSpeaking to Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in the Oval Office, Trump said on December 11, "I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. ... I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it."

What an idiot!!!

How can it increase the danger to the trip? She's not going.

They were planning on flying commercial with the trip until Trump sent out his letter telling the world what was happening!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 04:49:29 PM
Why would she be hellbent on travelling though? Pelosi shouldn't be avoiding her duty to work out a deal by jetting off on a fake PR mission to greet troops. Has she not heard of videoconferencing? Do the military really want to meet Nancy Pelosi?  It's pretty transparent it's just to raise the stakes and miss a federal employee pay deadline.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2019, 05:02:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 04:49:29 PM
Why would she be hellbent on travelling though? Pelosi shouldn't be avoiding her duty to work out a deal by jetting off on a fake PR mission to greet troops. Has she not heard of videoconferencing? Do the military really want to meet Nancy Pelosi?  It's pretty transparent it's just to raise the stakes and miss a federal employee pay deadline.

(https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01112/mission_accomplish_1112950c.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2019, 05:46:09 PM
God forbid the political opposition and administration overseers do their jobs, as they have always done, and also visit these places to get first hand feedback.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2019, 05:46:09 PM
God forbid the political opposition and administration overseers do their jobs, as they have always done, and also visit these places to get first hand feedback.

Which task is more important right now? Sorting out national security/government shutdown or jetting off to greet military personnel?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2019, 06:13:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2019, 05:46:09 PM
God forbid the political opposition and administration overseers do their jobs, as they have always done, and also visit these places to get first hand feedback.

Which task is more important right now? Sorting out national security/government shutdown or jetting off to greet military personnel?

Which was more important in the days Trump went? Government was shutdown then too. The supposed national security emergency existed then.

Why did Trump pull the plug when they were literally on their way to the airport and not a few days before? Because he is a spiteful child who wanted to stick it to Pelosi. He doesn't give two fucks about the shutdown or those it affects, otherwise he would never have started it (AGAIN) and wouldn't be sitting around with absolutely no idea how he is going to extricate himself from the mess he created.

So spare us your feigned concern.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2019, 06:22:41 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2019, 05:46:09 PM
God forbid the political opposition and administration overseers do their jobs, as they have always done, and also visit these places to get first hand feedback.

Which task is more important right now? Sorting out national security/government shutdown or jetting off to greet military personnel?

Don't be ridiculous. The most important thing is always that the president gets in another round of golf.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 07:17:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2019, 06:22:41 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2019, 05:46:09 PM
God forbid the political opposition and administration overseers do their jobs, as they have always done, and also visit these places to get first hand feedback.

Which task is more important right now? Sorting out national security/government shutdown or jetting off to greet military personnel?

Don't be ridiculous. The most important thing is always that the president gets in another round of golf.

Maybe you want to call moderators to ban disruptors like yourself from stopping mature debates taking place.

You certainly are the epitome of a beta male.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 07:20:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2019, 06:13:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2019, 05:46:09 PM
God forbid the political opposition and administration overseers do their jobs, as they have always done, and also visit these places to get first hand feedback.

Which task is more important right now? Sorting out national security/government shutdown or jetting off to greet military personnel?

Which was more important in the days Trump went? Government was shutdown then too. The supposed national security emergency existed then.

Why did Trump pull the plug when they were literally on their way to the airport and not a few days before? Because he is a spiteful child who wanted to stick it to Pelosi. He doesn't give two f**ks about the shutdown or those it affects, otherwise he would never have started it (AGAIN) and wouldn't be sitting around with absolutely no idea how he is going to extricate himself from the mess he created.

So spare us your feigned concern.

Would you call Pelosi's stunt about the state of the union address a masterstroke? If anything she provoked that reaction.
She's also avoiding real discussion and compromise. Is she a politician or virtue signaling to AOC and the rest of those twitter morons just to stay in power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 18, 2019, 07:48:56 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 07:20:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2019, 06:13:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2019, 05:46:09 PM
God forbid the political opposition and administration overseers do their jobs, as they have always done, and also visit these places to get first hand feedback.

Which task is more important right now? Sorting out national security/government shutdown or jetting off to greet military personnel?

Which was more important in the days Trump went? Government was shutdown then too. The supposed national security emergency existed then.

Why did Trump pull the plug when they were literally on their way to the airport and not a few days before? Because he is a spiteful child who wanted to stick it to Pelosi. He doesn't give two f**ks about the shutdown or those it affects, otherwise he would never have started it (AGAIN) and wouldn't be sitting around with absolutely no idea how he is going to extricate himself from the mess he created.

So spare us your feigned concern.

Would you call Pelosi's stunt about the state of the union address a masterstroke? If anything she provoked that reaction.
She's also avoiding real discussion and compromise. Is she a politician or virtue signaling to AOC and the rest of those twitter morons just to stay in power.

"Provoke"? What is he, a inebriated moron out on a Saturday night?

Pelosi's "stunt" was silly, but at the same time all those staff for the event really WILL be working for free.

As for discussion and compromise, Trump called for the shutdown. HE rejected the continuing resolution deal that passed the Senate because Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter said mean things. The House also passed a deal to open the government. HE is the one callously using federal workers and contractors, and all the people dependent on the same, as pawns. He could have signed off on the deal and been right in the middle of a negotiation right now in advance of the next resolution deadline. He made his bed, as the polls recognize. So f**k him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2019, 10:59:12 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 07:17:17 PM
Maybe you want to call moderators to ban disruptors like yourself from stopping mature debates taking place.

You certainly are the epitome of a beta male.

"Cuck." You're supposed to call me a "beta cuck." If you're going to speak alt-rightese, speak it properly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 19, 2019, 01:08:24 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2019, 05:46:09 PM
God forbid the political opposition and administration overseers do their jobs, as they have always done, and also visit these places to get first hand feedback.

Which task is more important right now? Sorting out national security/government shutdown or jetting off to greet military personnel?

It's Trump's shutdown... he said so himself! Pelosi has made it very clear as to how it can end . . . The ball is very much in the Donald's court on this one!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2019, 01:26:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2019, 05:23:17 AM
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/trump-russia-cohen-moscow-tower-mueller-investigation

Mueller Investigation just came out tonight and said this is false

All the major networks reported on it all day long.....FFFAAAKKKEEE NNNEEEWWWSSS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on January 19, 2019, 04:19:19 AM
They didnt say it was false they said some of it is not accurate ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 19, 2019, 05:58:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 19, 2019, 01:26:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2019, 05:23:17 AM
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/trump-russia-cohen-moscow-tower-mueller-investigation

Mueller Investigation just came out tonight and said this is false

All the major networks reported on it all day long.....FFFAAAKKKEEE NNNEEEWWWSSS

« The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought. » Dornbusch


I don't mind waiting

- NO COLLUSION
- COLLUSION IS NOT ILLEGAL
- DEEP STATE HOAX
- PUTIN SAID HE DIDN'T DO IT
- DEMOCRATS COLLUDED
- NO COLLUSION
- WHY IS FBI ALLOWED TO LOOK FOR COLLUSION?!
- OK, THERE WAS COLLUSION BUT NOT A LOT

https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1084549596842524672

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 19, 2019, 09:30:37 AM
Trump is making a huge error with the shutdown if he wants re-elected. . . He's the very public face of the shutdown while Chuck and Nancy aren't going to be debating in a couple of years time!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2019, 10:32:23 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on January 19, 2019, 04:19:19 AM
They didnt say it was false they said some of it is not accurate ?

So instead of fake news it's inaccurate news?

Do none of you guys take issue with the press jumping the gun on rubbish like this?

As Ive said from day 1......let Mueller finish his investigation and let the chips fall where they will.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 19, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
It was reported on all sides.  Fox News said that it could get him impeached if true. It's ridiculous to think that, in this day and age of the internet and cable news, that it would be ignored.

Now they're all reporting the Mueller press release.

Today they will move back to the shutdown with Trump apparently going to make an announcement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 19, 2019, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
It was reported on all sides.  Fox News said that it could get him impeached if true. It's ridiculous to think that, in this day and age of the internet and cable news, that it would be ignored.

Now they're all reporting the Mueller press release.

Today they will move back to the shutdown with Trump apparently going to make an announcement.

Mueller is the real FBI deal. He is thorough and rational . The media are obviously less so and more emotional.
Mueller won't go for the kill until the case is bulletproof. Maybe he was behind the buzzfeed leak. Anything is possible . The net is closing in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2019, 02:32:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
It was reported on all sides.  Fox News said that it could get him impeached if true. It's ridiculous to think that, in this day and age of the internet and cable news, that it would be ignored.

Now they're all reporting the Mueller press release.

Today they will move back to the shutdown with Trump apparently going to make an announcement.

The tone and the context of the coverage differed wildly

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theweek.com/speedreads-amp/818528/fox--friends-dismisses-bombshell-buzzfeed-report-after-just-22-seconds-coverage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 19, 2019, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2019, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
It was reported on all sides.  Fox News said that it could get him impeached if true. It's ridiculous to think that, in this day and age of the internet and cable news, that it would be ignored.

Now they're all reporting the Mueller press release.

Today they will move back to the shutdown with Trump apparently going to make an announcement.

Mueller is the real FBI deal. He is thorough and rational . The media are obviously less so and more emotional.
Mueller won't go for the kill until the case is bulletproof. Maybe he was behind the buzzfeed leak. Anything is possible . The net is closing in.
The likelihood is the Buzzfeed story was too close the bone and was actually impeding on Mueller's territory.

At every stage of the last two years the pro-Trump narrative has completely fallen apart.

It's hilarious to see the same eejits who claimed the investigation was a witch hunt frantically now placing such credibility in a deliberately vague statement.

Mental gymnastics doeesn't even begin to describe it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2019, 03:11:15 PM
I never said it was a witch hunt

The events that precipitated the investigation look to have been contrived

If every campaign went through a Mueller type investigation I'm sure they'd find all types of unsavory behavior
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 21, 2019, 04:03:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2019, 10:59:12 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 18, 2019, 07:17:17 PM
Maybe you want to call moderators to ban disruptors like yourself from stopping mature debates taking place.

You certainly are the epitome of a beta male.

"Cuck." You're supposed to call me a "beta cuck." If you're going to speak alt-rightese, speak it properly.

If that's what you prefer to be called then I'll totally agree with your words and remember to use in the future.
See - if you are willing to negotiate with the other side you can come to a mutual working agreement that benefits everyone. That's a lesson for all you other democrat sycophants. Well done Eamonnca1.

Now how about building a magnificent border wall together and making the US safer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 21, 2019, 05:35:49 PM
What have a border wall and the safety of the United States got to do with each other?

As much in common as the price of bacon in Denmark and a united Ireland
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 21, 2019, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 21, 2019, 05:35:49 PM
What have a border wall and the safety of the United States got to do with each other?

As much in common as the price of bacon in Denmark and a united Ireland

You're either hilarious or completely deluded. I think it's the latter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on January 21, 2019, 07:31:21 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 21, 2019, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 21, 2019, 05:35:49 PM
What have a border wall and the safety of the United States got to do with each other?

As much in common as the price of bacon in Denmark and a united Ireland

You're either hilarious or completely deluded. I think it's the latter.

How will the wall improve security? Most immigration happens at airports. Drug dealers use boats, planes and a tunnel network at the boarder. How will a wall make a difference?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 21, 2019, 07:54:37 PM
The real driver for illegal immigration is employers who are willing to employ people who are not legally allowed to work in the US.

If the US is serious about the problem, then they should go after the sort of employers who use illegal workers in the construction of their Fifth Avenue tower or to staff their New Jersey golf club. Arrest them, convict them and confiscate their businesses under RICO statutes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Carmen Stateside on January 21, 2019, 08:06:08 PM
So who's going to fill these jobs?
It won't be Americans that's for sure
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on January 21, 2019, 09:18:31 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 21, 2019, 08:06:08 PM
So who's going to fill these jobs?
It won't be Americans that's for sure

Never a truer word spoke. What yank is going to pick avocado's? Or grapes for wine?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
Yet again the liberal media lost credibility about a schoolboy supposedly smirking in Washington DC at an anti-abortion march.
He didn't respond to provocation yet he's been demonized by utter morons from Alissa Milano to CNN "journalists".

Don't judge on the colour of skin, judge on the nature of their grin.

Wearing a MAGA hatin public sends the left into meltdown. Those kids are showing that they won't be bullied. Hopefully this is the start of standing up to the left's utter madness.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on January 22, 2019, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
Yet again the liberal media lost credibility about a schoolboy supposedly smirking in Washington DC at an anti-abortion march.
He didn't respond to provocation yet he's been demonized by utter morons from Alissa Milano to CNN "journalists".

Don't judge on the colour of skin, judge on the nature of their grin.

Wearing a MAGA hatin public sends the left into meltdown. Those kids are showing that they won't be bullied. Hopefully this is the start of standing up to the left's utter madness.

Dolph are you Adolf in disguise? Don't try and change the rhetoric. The photos and videos don't lie. That smirking f**king cnut should have had his head taken off his shoulders. I'm no conservative nor liberal but I know a cnut when I see one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 05:54:17 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 22, 2019, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
Yet again the liberal media lost credibility about a schoolboy supposedly smirking in Washington DC at an anti-abortion march.
He didn't respond to provocation yet he's been demonized by utter morons from Alissa Milano to CNN "journalists".

Don't judge on the colour of skin, judge on the nature of their grin.

Wearing a MAGA hatin public sends the left into meltdown. Those kids are showing that they won't be bullied. Hopefully this is the start of standing up to the left's utter madness.

Dolph are you Adolf in disguise? Don't try and change the rhetoric. The photos and videos don't lie. That smirking f**king cnut should have had his head taken off his shoulders. I'm no conservative nor liberal but I know a cnut when I see one.

Photos and videos don't lie? You have heard of CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, New York times and the rest of the liberal media.

Did you watch the whole thing? You couldn't have. If you did you would have seen the native American going up to the kids, not the other way around. That lad just stood his ground when a drum was being beaten in his face. Watch for the black Hebrew Israelites shouting racist abuse at kids.

Then get back to me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2019, 06:01:59 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 22, 2019, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
Yet again the liberal media lost credibility about a schoolboy supposedly smirking in Washington DC at an anti-abortion march.
He didn't respond to provocation yet he's been demonized by utter morons from Alissa Milano to CNN "journalists".

Don't judge on the colour of skin, judge on the nature of their grin.

Wearing a MAGA hatin public sends the left into meltdown. Those kids are showing that they won't be bullied. Hopefully this is the start of standing up to the left's utter madness.

Dolph are you Adolf in disguise? Don't try and change the rhetoric. The photos and videos don't lie. That smirking f**king cnut should have had his head taken off his shoulders. I'm no conservative nor liberal but I know a cnut when I see one.

Haven't watched them, but from what I've read, have the subsequent videos released not shown the Black Israelites (whoever the f**k THEY are?) abusing the MAGA kids first?

People need to be careful with photos and videos. They don't always show the whole story. Which appears to be a bunch of eejits getting carried away and insulting political opponents, reflecting society in general. And then even bigger morons issuing death threats to some of the kids families in the subsequent hype.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 06:23:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2019, 06:01:59 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 22, 2019, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
Yet again the liberal media lost credibility about a schoolboy supposedly smirking in Washington DC at an anti-abortion march.
He didn't respond to provocation yet he's been demonized by utter morons from Alissa Milano to CNN "journalists".

Don't judge on the colour of skin, judge on the nature of their grin.

Wearing a MAGA hatin public sends the left into meltdown. Those kids are showing that they won't be bullied. Hopefully this is the start of standing up to the left's utter madness.

Dolph are you Adolf in disguise? Don't try and change the rhetoric. The photos and videos don't lie. That smirking f**king cnut should have had his head taken off his shoulders. I'm no conservative nor liberal but I know a cnut when I see one.

Haven't watched them, but from what I've read, have the subsequent videos released not shown the Black Israelites (whoever the f**k THEY are?) abusing the MAGA kids first?

People need to be careful with photos and videos. They don't always show the whole story. Which appears to be a bunch of eejits getting carried away and insulting political opponents, reflecting society in general. And then even bigger morons issuing death threats to some of the kids families in the subsequent hype.

That's the worrying part. The world of twitter and social media is making people jump quickly to react rather than get all the facts first.

The kids might have said something or were spurring on the Israelites but it's important that the media research properly rather than inflame with one photo that suits your viewpoint. I guess when there is an opportunity to lazily smear your opponents that's all that matters.

Any adult that issued a death threat should be cautioned by police.

Nothing wrong with kids in MAGA hats.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 22, 2019, 07:05:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 06:23:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2019, 06:01:59 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 22, 2019, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
Yet again the liberal media lost credibility about a schoolboy supposedly smirking in Washington DC at an anti-abortion march.
He didn't respond to provocation yet he's been demonized by utter morons from Alissa Milano to CNN "journalists".

Don't judge on the colour of skin, judge on the nature of their grin.

Wearing a MAGA hatin public sends the left into meltdown. Those kids are showing that they won't be bullied. Hopefully this is the start of standing up to the left's utter madness.

Dolph are you Adolf in disguise? Don't try and change the rhetoric. The photos and videos don't lie. That smirking f**king cnut should have had his head taken off his shoulders. I'm no conservative nor liberal but I know a cnut when I see one.

Haven't watched them, but from what I've read, have the subsequent videos released not shown the Black Israelites (whoever the f**k THEY are?) abusing the MAGA kids first?

People need to be careful with photos and videos. They don't always show the whole story. Which appears to be a bunch of eejits getting carried away and insulting political opponents, reflecting society in general. And then even bigger morons issuing death threats to some of the kids families in the subsequent hype.

That's the worrying part. The world of twitter and social media is making people jump quickly to react rather than get all the facts first.

The kids might have said something or were spurring on the Israelites but it's important that the media research properly rather than inflame with one photo that suits your viewpoint. I guess when there is an opportunity to lazily smear your opponents that's all that matters.

Any adult that issued a death threat should be cautioned by police.

Nothing wrong with kids in MAGA hats.

Can't imagine too many lads getting lucky wearing one of them yokes!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2019, 07:06:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 06:23:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2019, 06:01:59 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 22, 2019, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
Yet again the liberal media lost credibility about a schoolboy supposedly smirking in Washington DC at an anti-abortion march.
He didn't respond to provocation yet he's been demonized by utter morons from Alissa Milano to CNN "journalists".

Don't judge on the colour of skin, judge on the nature of their grin.

Wearing a MAGA hatin public sends the left into meltdown. Those kids are showing that they won't be bullied. Hopefully this is the start of standing up to the left's utter madness.

Dolph are you Adolf in disguise? Don't try and change the rhetoric. The photos and videos don't lie. That smirking f**king cnut should have had his head taken off his shoulders. I'm no conservative nor liberal but I know a cnut when I see one.

Haven't watched them, but from what I've read, have the subsequent videos released not shown the Black Israelites (whoever the f**k THEY are?) abusing the MAGA kids first?

People need to be careful with photos and videos. They don't always show the whole story. Which appears to be a bunch of eejits getting carried away and insulting political opponents, reflecting society in general. And then even bigger morons issuing death threats to some of the kids families in the subsequent hype.

That's the worrying part. The world of twitter and social media is making people jump quickly to react rather than get all the facts first.

The kids might have said something or were spurring on the Israelites but it's important that the media research properly rather than inflame with one photo that suits your viewpoint. I guess when there is an opportunity to lazily smear your opponents that's all that matters.

Any adult that issued a death threat should be cautioned by police.

Nothing wrong with kids in MAGA hats.

I agree with your thoughtful and non-inflammatory post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on January 22, 2019, 07:15:48 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 06:23:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2019, 06:01:59 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 22, 2019, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
Yet again the liberal media lost credibility about a schoolboy supposedly smirking in Washington DC at an anti-abortion march.
He didn't respond to provocation yet he's been demonized by utter morons from Alissa Milano to CNN "journalists".

Don't judge on the colour of skin, judge on the nature of their grin.

Wearing a MAGA hatin public sends the left into meltdown. Those kids are showing that they won't be bullied. Hopefully this is the start of standing up to the left's utter madness.

Dolph are you Adolf in disguise? Don't try and change the rhetoric. The photos and videos don't lie. That smirking f**king cnut should have had his head taken off his shoulders. I'm no conservative nor liberal but I know a cnut when I see one.

Haven't watched them, but from what I've read, have the subsequent videos released not shown the Black Israelites (whoever the f**k THEY are?) abusing the MAGA kids first?

People need to be careful with photos and videos. They don't always show the whole story. Which appears to be a bunch of eejits getting carried away and insulting political opponents, reflecting society in general. And then even bigger morons issuing death threats to some of the kids families in the subsequent hype.

That's the worrying part. The world of twitter and social media is making people jump quickly to react rather than get all the facts first.

The kids might have said something or were spurring on the Israelites but it's important that the media research properly rather than inflame with one photo that suits your viewpoint. I guess when there is an opportunity to lazily smear your opponents that's all that matters.

Any adult that issued a death threat should be cautioned by police.

Nothing wrong with kids in MAGA hats.

The guy beating the drum wasn't an Israelite though? Did you see the videos mocking him? Especially when he was a Vet. Is these not the same Vet's that Trump loves???

Your point on the MAGA and kids wearing the hats, if you mean nothing wrong with wearing hats supporting making America great again on the back of pontificating lies about Terrorists coming over a border, or sexist propaganda.

I think Trump said himself that FOX watchers are the dumbest people alive and with the right media campaign he would become President. Unfortunately Dolph you back up his statement.

As an aside I've a few friends who were in Seattle on a J1, unbeknownst to them, their Tax refund has been signifcantly reduced because of 1 of Trumps lesser spouted Tax Reforms. As an Irish man living in America ( I assume you are), do you not think the likes of this shouldn't be encouraged?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 22, 2019, 09:48:38 PM
I'm interested in finding out how their tax refund has been reduced.....I haven't even gotten my tax forms yet

Found it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 22, 2019, 10:27:59 PM
Where were the chaperones on this school trip? It was their responsibility first to direct the kids away from the Black Israelites and then to intervene in the High Noon showdown between the kid and the drummer.

Also, on the issue of the MAGA hats, once again I call the chaperones to task. The kids were there as representatives of their school, not simply as private individuals. Typically, schools have dress code regulations, and those hats were inappropriate attire. I've taught at a private Catholic high school for thirty years. Our students were at the march, but they were not wearing MAGA hats or hoodies. Our school, for example, has strict rules about dress. We would have prohibited the wearing of those hats as inappropriate, just as we would have outlawed Metallica t-shirts or Bud Lite paraphernalia, or anything else that could be construed as blemishing the school's reputation. It was up to the chaperones to explain the dress code regulations before the trip and to enforce them on the day.

Here is an excerpt from the Covington Catholic website regarding attire: "Any appropriate t-shirt, jersey or sweatshirt that is in keeping with our Catholic faith and Covington Catholic expectations may be worn." The key words are "appropriate" and "in keeping with our Catholic faith," standards enforced by the school representatives. A shirt proclaiming "Sanders 2020" would be equally unsuitable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2019, 01:30:36 AM
Just checked the handbook from my kids school and


Respectful: As with any community, we ask that all individuals make choices about what they wear while being mindful that their dress can impact those around them. When a student or adult is put in a position where they are made uncomfortable by the dress of another individual in the community, we will work together to understand what that person needs to feel comfortable and able to do their work.

These kids from Covington were and are jack asses. In light of Kavanaugh, I would question the wisdom of sending boys from an all boy school to the March for Life in the first place. Now there's other videos of them (supposedly) making inappropriate comments to other people.  Why would you wear all that MAGA gear unless you were intentionally going out to provoke and annoy people

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 23, 2019, 04:16:59 AM
Common sense and lots of graciousness has broken out... Me likey...it's a sign of the times that a smirking adolescent can dominate the attention of the nation while Trump/Mnuchin/Mitch McConnell are letting the Russians escape the grips of sanctions without much attention.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on January 23, 2019, 09:38:38 AM
A group of teenagers being dicks, where else would you get it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 22, 2019, 10:27:59 PM
Where were the chaperones on this school trip? It was their responsibility first to direct the kids away from the Black Israelites and then to intervene in the High Noon showdown between the kid and the drummer.


Why should they run away? Surely these Black Israelites should be arrested for public order offences?
You guys love complaining about hate crimes but don't even apportion blame when all the evidence is there. Why is that?

Oh - I know :)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on January 23, 2019, 01:28:37 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 22, 2019, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 22, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
Yet again the liberal media lost credibility about a schoolboy supposedly smirking in Washington DC at an anti-abortion march.
He didn't respond to provocation yet he's been demonized by utter morons from Alissa Milano to CNN "journalists".

Don't judge on the colour of skin, judge on the nature of their grin.

Wearing a MAGA hatin public sends the left into meltdown. Those kids are showing that they won't be bullied. Hopefully this is the start of standing up to the left's utter madness.

Dolph are you Adolf in disguise? Don't try and change the rhetoric. The photos and videos don't lie. That smirking f**king cnut should have had his head taken off his shoulders. I'm no conservative nor liberal but I know a cnut when I see one.

Still feel the same after the truth has emerged.
Hope you are never on a jury.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 02:13:33 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 22, 2019, 10:27:59 PM
Where were the chaperones on this school trip? It was their responsibility first to direct the kids away from the Black Israelites and then to intervene in the High Noon showdown between the kid and the drummer.

Also, on the issue of the MAGA hats, once again I call the chaperones to task. The kids were there as representatives of their school, not simply as private individuals. Typically, schools have dress code regulations, and those hats were inappropriate attire. I've taught at a private Catholic high school for thirty years. Our students were at the march, but they were not wearing MAGA hats or hoodies. Our school, for example, has strict rules about dress. We would have prohibited the wearing of those hats as inappropriate, just as we would have outlawed Metallica t-shirts or Bud Lite paraphernalia, or anything else that could be construed as blemishing the school's reputation. It was up to the chaperones to explain the dress code regulations before the trip and to enforce them on the day.

Here is an excerpt from the Covington Catholic website regarding attire: "Any appropriate t-shirt, jersey or sweatshirt that is in keeping with our Catholic faith and Covington Catholic expectations may be worn." The key words are "appropriate" and "in keeping with our Catholic faith," standards enforced by the school representatives. A shirt proclaiming "Sanders 2020" would be equally unsuitable.

Did you wear school clothes at weekends going to off-site events?
They went to the march for life event. Another reason why the liberal media were so quick to demonise these kids.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 23, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
The term "school clothes" is vague. We had a dress code, not a uniform, but if they were representing the school at an off-site event, they were expected to adhere to the school's dress code regulations. Of course, for off-site events of a casual nature, like a march, the rules were less strict, and so  they were,for example, allowed to wear jeans, which were not permitted at school. The central prohibition was against logos that the school deemed inappropriate. On a Right to Life march, the typical garb would be jeans and a school/ college hoodie. So, not surprisingly, I was stunned to see so many Covington kids sporting MAGA gear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2019, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 23, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
The term "school clothes" is vague. We had a dress code, not a uniform, but if they were representing the school at an off-site event, they were expected to adhere to the school's dress code regulations. Of course, for off-site events of a casual nature, like a march, the rules were less strict, and so  they were,for example, allowed to wear jeans, which were not permitted at school. The central prohibition was against logos that the school deemed inappropriate. On a Right to Life march, the typical garb would be jeans and a school/ college hoodie. So, not surprisingly, I was stunned to see so many Covington kids sporting MAGA gear.

I'm curious....did they bring this gear from home or did they buy it on a lark once they arrived in DC?


If I were a betting person, I'd say the latter

Trump got 44% of the vote in my town and since the election I don't think I have seen one person wearing a MAGA hat.....never mind a gang of teenagers who aren't even of voting age
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on January 23, 2019, 03:21:51 PM
I'd say you're right, whitey, and that's when the chaperones should have stepped in and said it was inappropriate apparel, reminding them that they were representing their school and that it was a Right to Life march.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2019, 03:26:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2019, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 23, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
The term "school clothes" is vague. We had a dress code, not a uniform, but if they were representing the school at an off-site event, they were expected to adhere to the school's dress code regulations. Of course, for off-site events of a casual nature, like a march, the rules were less strict, and so  they were,for example, allowed to wear jeans, which were not permitted at school. The central prohibition was against logos that the school deemed inappropriate. On a Right to Life march, the typical garb would be jeans and a school/ college hoodie. So, not surprisingly, I was stunned to see so many Covington kids sporting MAGA gear.

I'm curious....did they bring this gear from home or did they buy it on a lark once they arrived in DC?


If I were a betting person, I'd say the latter

Trump got 44% of the vote in my town a
nd since the election I don't think I have seen one person wearing a MAGA hat.....never mind a gang of teenagers who aren't even of voting age

you don't live in MAGAstan, Whitey, do you?


you'll never get it right,
'Cause when you're laid in bed at night,
Watching roaches climb the wall,
If you called your Dad he could stop it all.

I bet you could pay $400 if you had a medical emergency. 40% of Americans could not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 23, 2019, 03:55:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2019, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 23, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
The term "school clothes" is vague. We had a dress code, not a uniform, but if they were representing the school at an off-site event, they were expected to adhere to the school's dress code regulations. Of course, for off-site events of a casual nature, like a march, the rules were less strict, and so  they were,for example, allowed to wear jeans, which were not permitted at school. The central prohibition was against logos that the school deemed inappropriate. On a Right to Life march, the typical garb would be jeans and a school/ college hoodie. So, not surprisingly, I was stunned to see so many Covington kids sporting MAGA gear.

I'm curious....did they bring this gear from home or did they buy it on a lark once they arrived in DC?


If I were a betting person, I'd say the latter

Trump got 44% of the vote in my town and since the election I don't think I have seen one person wearing a MAGA hat.....never mind a gang of teenagers who aren't even of voting age
thats because chances are you would be verbally assaulted at the least or perhaps physically assaulted by some loon for wearing a hat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2019, 04:06:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 23, 2019, 03:55:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2019, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 23, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
The term "school clothes" is vague. We had a dress code, not a uniform, but if they were representing the school at an off-site event, they were expected to adhere to the school's dress code regulations. Of course, for off-site events of a casual nature, like a march, the rules were less strict, and so  they were,for example, allowed to wear jeans, which were not permitted at school. The central prohibition was against logos that the school deemed inappropriate. On a Right to Life march, the typical garb would be jeans and a school/ college hoodie. So, not surprisingly, I was stunned to see so many Covington kids sporting MAGA gear.

I'm curious....did they bring this gear from home or did they buy it on a lark once they arrived in DC?


If I were a betting person, I'd say the latter

Trump got 44% of the vote in my town and since the election I don't think I have seen one person wearing a MAGA hat.....never mind a gang of teenagers who aren't even of voting age
thats because chances are you would be verbally assaulted at the least or perhaps physically assaulted by some loon for wearing a hat.

Examples?

My sister-in-law was threatened by two yokels in a plains state a few years because she had an Obama sticker on her car.

There was an interview during the last election with some tow truck operator in the Carolinas who refused to tow the car of some woman who had broke down because she had Bernie stickers.

There's arseholes everywhere. Doesn't mean you're going to take your life into your hands by wearing a MAGA hat.

I live in NYC, and the most common expressions of political opinion you see on cars around here (and you don't see many of any persuasion) are anti-liberal or anti-Hillary stickers, and pretty virulent ones at that. Never heard of any of the aggressive, loudmouths sporting them getting hassle though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 23, 2019, 04:26:35 PM
I dunno J70

If I saw anyone in Socal wearing one of those hats first thing I would think would be "twit!"
2nd would be "are you mad* wearing that around here?"

*irish meaning not american tho it could work either way!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2019, 04:41:28 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 23, 2019, 04:26:35 PM
I dunno J70

If I saw anyone in Socal wearing one of those hats first thing I would think would be "twit!"
2nd would be "are you mad* wearing that around here?"

*irish meaning not american tho it could work either way!

I would think "twit" also.

But I see lots of arseholes of various types every day. Doesn't mean I'm going to hassle or threaten them. Especially somewhere like NYC, where someone wearing a MAGA hat is often trying to be provocative. Why give them the satisfaction of a reaction or confrontation? I just ignore the c***ts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on January 23, 2019, 04:52:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2019, 04:41:28 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 23, 2019, 04:26:35 PM
I dunno J70

If I saw anyone in Socal wearing one of those hats first thing I would think would be "twit!"
2nd would be "are you mad* wearing that around here?"

*irish meaning not american tho it could work either way!

I would think "twit" also.

But I see lots of arseholes of various types every day. Doesn't mean I'm going to hassle or threaten them. Especially somewhere like NYC, where someone wearing a MAGA hat is often trying to be provocative. Why give them the satisfaction of a reaction or confrontation? I just ignore the c***ts.

Yeah its true, even more so in SoCal!
Only ever seen Bumper stickers around here... all driven by gents that remind me of yer man in that ad driving around in circles in the big pickup (cant mind what the ad is for)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 23, 2019, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2019, 04:06:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 23, 2019, 03:55:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2019, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 23, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
The term "school clothes" is vague. We had a dress code, not a uniform, but if they were representing the school at an off-site event, they were expected to adhere to the school's dress code regulations. Of course, for off-site events of a casual nature, like a march, the rules were less strict, and so  they were,for example, allowed to wear jeans, which were not permitted at school. The central prohibition was against logos that the school deemed inappropriate. On a Right to Life march, the typical garb would be jeans and a school/ college hoodie. So, not surprisingly, I was stunned to see so many Covington kids sporting MAGA gear.

I'm curious....did they bring this gear from home or did they buy it on a lark once they arrived in DC?


If I were a betting person, I'd say the latter

Trump got 44% of the vote in my town and since the election I don't think I have seen one person wearing a MAGA hat.....never mind a gang of teenagers who aren't even of voting age
thats because chances are you would be verbally assaulted at the least or perhaps physically assaulted by some loon for wearing a hat.

Examples?

My sister-in-law was threatened by two yokels in a plains state a few years because she had an Obama sticker on her car.

There was an interview during the last election with some tow truck operator in the Carolinas who refused to tow the car of some woman who had broke down because she had Bernie stickers.

There's arseholes everywhere. Doesn't mean you're going to take your life into your hands by wearing a MAGA hat.

I live in NYC, and the most common expressions of political opinion you see on cars around here (and you don't see many of any persuasion) are anti-liberal or anti-Hillary stickers, and pretty virulent ones at that. Never heard of any of the aggressive, loudmouths sporting them getting hassle though.
trump supporters weee assualted in San Jose California by people carrying la raza banners no less who would be the supremacists here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 07:13:07 PM
She's the Democrats gift that keeps on giving

"The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change" Ocasio-Cortez says

So as well as being a financial genius she is a scientist as well. and a waitress.

Certainly no end to her talents.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 23, 2019, 07:33:49 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 07:13:07 PM
She's the Democrats gift that keeps on giving

"The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change" Ocasio-Cortez says

So as well as being a financial genius she is a scientist as well. and a waitress.

Certainly no end to her talents.

If she wasn't smokin hot no one would be listening to a word she s saying
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2019, 08:10:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 23, 2019, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 23, 2019, 04:06:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 23, 2019, 03:55:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2019, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on January 23, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
The term "school clothes" is vague. We had a dress code, not a uniform, but if they were representing the school at an off-site event, they were expected to adhere to the school's dress code regulations. Of course, for off-site events of a casual nature, like a march, the rules were less strict, and so  they were,for example, allowed to wear jeans, which were not permitted at school. The central prohibition was against logos that the school deemed inappropriate. On a Right to Life march, the typical garb would be jeans and a school/ college hoodie. So, not surprisingly, I was stunned to see so many Covington kids sporting MAGA gear.

I'm curious....did they bring this gear from home or did they buy it on a lark once they arrived in DC?


If I were a betting person, I'd say the latter

Trump got 44% of the vote in my town and since the election I don't think I have seen one person wearing a MAGA hat.....never mind a gang of teenagers who aren't even of voting age
thats because chances are you would be verbally assaulted at the least or perhaps physically assaulted by some loon for wearing a hat.

Examples?

My sister-in-law was threatened by two yokels in a plains state a few years because she had an Obama sticker on her car.

There was an interview during the last election with some tow truck operator in the Carolinas who refused to tow the car of some woman who had broke down because she had Bernie stickers.

There's arseholes everywhere. Doesn't mean you're going to take your life into your hands by wearing a MAGA hat.

I live in NYC, and the most common expressions of political opinion you see on cars around here (and you don't see many of any persuasion) are anti-liberal or anti-Hillary stickers, and pretty virulent ones at that. Never heard of any of the aggressive, loudmouths sporting them getting hassle though.
trump supporters weee assualted in San Jose California by people carrying la raza banners no less who would be the supremacists here

Details?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 10:31:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2019, 07:33:49 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 07:13:07 PM
She's the Democrats gift that keeps on giving

"The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change" Ocasio-Cortez says

So as well as being a financial genius she is a scientist as well. and a waitress.

Certainly no end to her talents.

If she wasn't smokin hot no one would be listening to a word she s saying

We'll have to disagree there Whitey.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 24, 2019, 05:57:10 AM
Actually her financial advice is economically very sound. Unlike the trickledown BS that you lads subscribe to.. She has data to back up what she is advocating.
And we don't need to address climate change??!!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 07:03:35 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 24, 2019, 05:57:10 AM
Actually her financial advice is economically very sound. Unlike the trickledown BS that you lads subscribe to.. She has data to back up what she is advocating.
And we don't need to address climate change??!!!!!
For a Real-World Example of Ocasio-Cortez's Tax Proposal, Look to Sweden
By Jonas O Bergman  and Kati Pohjanpalo
January 9, 2019, 3:00 PM GMT Updated on January 10, 2019, 12:00 AM GMT

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-09/hysteria-around-a-70-tax-rate-gets-a-reality-check-in-sweden

QuoteCritics of high taxes claim the policy stifles economic growth by reducing the incentive for people to work. But Sweden's employment rate is 77.5 percent, beating the U.S.'s 71 percent. The Nordic country has also surpassed the U.S. in terms of economic growth this decade, expanding 2.7 percent a year, on average, compared with 2.2 percent for the U.S.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 24, 2019, 10:56:17 AM
How could a 70% tax rate on earnings over $10m per year be a disincentive to work??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2019, 11:15:14 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2019, 10:56:17 AM
How could a 70% tax rate on earnings over $10m per year be a disincentive to work??

Clearly, no one is going to take that promotion to a $10m+/year job if they're only getting an extra 300K for each million over ten. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2019, 12:48:40 PM
I'm not opposed to the 70% tax rate but is that not just a token gesture?

How much revenue would be generated that could then be redistributed to those away the bottom?

I believe that income inequality should be addressed by pulling up the people at the bottom rather than pulling down those at the top

There are huge subsections of the population who are trapped in an unending cycle of poverty, crime, drugs and general dysfunction. Putting programs together to really help those people out of that cycle is what's needed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2019, 01:01:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2019, 12:48:40 PM
I'm not opposed to the 70% tax rate but is that not just a token gesture?

How much revenue would be generated that could then be redistributed to those away the bottom?

I believe that income inequality should be addressed by pulling up the people at the bottom rather than pulling down those at the top

There are huge subsections of the population who are trapped in an unending cycle of poverty, crime, drugs and general dysfunction. Putting programs together to really help those people out of that cycle is what's needed.

Good question.

I've no idea of the numbers or how effective such an approach would be. But that's all something which would be part of the discussion.

But dismissing it outright as pie-in-the-sky communism is about as helpful as pretending that slashing taxes on the wealthy is the panacea.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 24, 2019, 01:52:53 PM
http://time.com/money/5495760/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-70-percent-tax-rate-rich/

About $72bn per year. . . depending on how many are able to weasel their way out of paying it!!

The article says it would be close to funding Sanders free college scheme which would certainly be one way of pulling some people up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2019, 03:36:28 PM
In theory that sounds great

What fields will all of these new college graduates enter that will allow them to lift themselves and families out of poverty?

You think college is expensive now, wait till it becomes free.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
Is it still free in Ireland?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on January 24, 2019, 04:13:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
Is it still free in Ireland?

The education is 100% free. However, the mandatory student contribution for student services and examinations is up to €3,000.

We are nothing if not an imaginative people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2019, 03:36:28 PM
You think college is expensive now, wait till it becomes free.

Ah, the old cute-sounding-but-not-based-on-any-facts-whatsoever soundbite of the right. That's what you people also say about healthcare despite the US having the most expensive healthcare system in the developed world and with worse outcomes by just about every measure.

But yeah. Keep on parroting your Fox News talking points like a good little conservative android.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 23, 2019, 07:33:49 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 07:13:07 PM
She's the Democrats gift that keeps on giving

"The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change" Ocasio-Cortez says

So as well as being a financial genius she is a scientist as well. and a waitress.

Certainly no end to her talents.
If she wasn't smokin hot no one would be listening to a word she s saying

Would you two like to be alone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 05:24:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2019, 12:48:40 PM
I'm not opposed to the 70% tax rate but is that not just a token gesture?

How much revenue would be generated that could then be redistributed to those away the bottom?

I believe that income inequality should be addressed by pulling up the people at the bottom rather than pulling down those at the top

There are huge subsections of the population who are trapped in an unending cycle of poverty, crime, drugs and general dysfunction. Putting programs together to really help those people out of that cycle is what's needed.

If only conservatives would stop blocking such programs at every turn. You people think that lifting people out of poverty is immoral.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 05:26:23 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 07:13:07 PM
She's the Democrats gift that keeps on giving

"The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change" Ocasio-Cortez says

So as well as being a financial genius she is a scientist as well. and a waitress.

Certainly no end to her talents.

Here's the actual quote without conservative selective editing:

"Millennials and Gen Z and all these folks that come after us are looking up, and we're like, 'The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change, and your biggest issue is how are we gonna pay for it?'"

Amazing what you can do when you truncate half the sentence.

In any case, what have you got against waitresses? Would you prefer it if only oil executives and hedge fund managers were elected to public office, you degenerate conservative troll?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 05:42:46 PM
This is Marie Antoinette-esque. Ross's net worth in 2017 was €700 million. A government for the people...yeah right.

Wilbur Ross, Trump's millionaire Commerce Secretary, says he doesn't understand why federal workers are going to food banks during government shutdown

https://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-wilbur-ross-why-federal-workers-go-to-food-banks-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2019, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 05:42:46 PM
This is Marie Antoinette-esque. Ross's net worth in 2017 was €700 million. A government for the people...yeah right.

Wilbur Ross, Trump's millionaire Commerce Secretary, says he doesn't understand why federal workers are going to food banks during government shutdown

https://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-wilbur-ross-why-federal-workers-go-to-food-banks-2019-1?r=US&IR=T
It's important to remember Trump's contract with the MAGAs. Only Trump can root for them against the elites. People are so  stupid

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 05:52:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 24, 2019, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 05:42:46 PM
This is Marie Antoinette-esque. Ross's net worth in 2017 was €700 million. A government for the people...yeah right.

Wilbur Ross, Trump's millionaire Commerce Secretary, says he doesn't understand why federal workers are going to food banks during government shutdown

https://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-wilbur-ross-why-federal-workers-go-to-food-banks-2019-1?r=US&IR=T
It's important to remember Trump's contract with the MAGAs. Only Trump can root for them against the elites. People are so  stupid

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8
Let them borrow from loan sharks to eat cake.

Trump Money Lenders - The BIGGEST interest rates for the smallest dinner!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2019, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 24, 2019, 04:13:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
Is it still free in Ireland?

The education is 100% free. However, the mandatory student contribution for student services and examinations is up to €3,000.

We are nothing if not an imaginative people.

Perhaps, but its about the same as you'd pay in tuition fees at the likes of UCD 25-30 years ago. Whatever the label, that's not a bad rate of inflation.

You should compare the 3K euros to what you have to pay for college in the states!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 24, 2019, 05:57:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 05:42:46 PM
This is Marie Antoinette-esque. Ross's net worth in 2017 was €700 million. A government for the people...yeah right.

Wilbur Ross, Trump's millionaire Commerce Secretary, says he doesn't understand why federal workers are going to food banks during government shutdown

https://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-wilbur-ross-why-federal-workers-go-to-food-banks-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

My wife is a federal worker (who has been working all through). We've had to get a loan.

You think Trump is going to cover the interest?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 24, 2019, 06:32:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 05:42:46 PM
This is Marie Antoinette-esque. Ross's net worth in 2017 was €700 million. A government for the people...yeah right.

Wilbur Ross, Trump's millionaire Commerce Secretary, says he doesn't understand why federal workers are going to food banks during government shutdown

https://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-wilbur-ross-why-federal-workers-go-to-food-banks-2019-1?r=US&IR=T



Forbes downgraded Wilbur Ross' net work from $2.9 billion to $700 million back in 2017 so he knows what it is like to suffer.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/11/07/the-case-of-wilbur-ross-phantom-2-billion/#508f52f67515

Though I must say that I am shocked that someone who has vastly overstated his net worth would find a place in the Trump cabinet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 24, 2019, 07:05:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 05:24:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 24, 2019, 12:48:40 PM
I'm not opposed to the 70% tax rate but is that not just a token gesture?

How much revenue would be generated that could then be redistributed to those away the bottom?

I believe that income inequality should be addressed by pulling up the people at the bottom rather than pulling down those at the top

There are huge subsections of the population who are trapped in an unending cycle of poverty, crime, drugs and general dysfunction. Putting programs together to really help those people out of that cycle is what's needed.

If only conservatives would stop blocking such programs at every turn. You people think that lifting people out of poverty is immoral.

if only Democrats would stopp ripping off these programs by giving all their third cousins "do nothing" jobs with massive pensions and benefits that divert the miney from where it should be going
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:25:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 05:26:23 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 07:13:07 PM
She's the Democrats gift that keeps on giving

"The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change" Ocasio-Cortez says

So as well as being a financial genius she is a scientist as well. and a waitress.

Certainly no end to her talents.

Here's the actual quote without conservative selective editing:

"Millennials and Gen Z and all these folks that come after us are looking up, and we're like, 'The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change, and your biggest issue is how are we gonna pay for it?'"

Amazing what you can do when you truncate half the sentence.

In any case, what have you got against waitresses? Would you prefer it if only oil executives and hedge fund managers were elected to public office, you degenerate conservative troll?

Sid/Eamonnca1/whatever other handle you write under

I gave the relevant piece of the quote but if you want to continue

What you didn't add to the end of your piece was what she said next

"This is our World War II."


:D :D :D :D :D :D

Christ almighty.


she is full of (buzzword shit and the left can't eat it up fast enough.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 05:26:23 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 23, 2019, 07:13:07 PM
She's the Democrats gift that keeps on giving

"The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change" Ocasio-Cortez says

So as well as being a financial genius she is a scientist as well. and a waitress.

Certainly no end to her talents.

Here's the actual quote without conservative selective editing:

"Millennials and Gen Z and all these folks that come after us are looking up, and we're like, 'The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change, and your biggest issue is how are we gonna pay for it?'"

Amazing what you can do when you truncate half the sentence.

In any case, what have you got against waitresses? Would you prefer it if only oil executives and hedge fund managers were elected to public office, you degenerate conservative troll?

Nothing against waitresses but might be better that someone who actually has some sort of track record is leading your country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 07:36:10 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
Nothing against waitresses but might be better that someone who actually has some sort of track record is leading your country.

Track record in what? Hiring contractors to do work and then refusing to pay them afterwards? Having a casino go bankrupt? Setting up business after business and watching them go bankrupt? Getting p1ssed on by a hooker in a Moscow hotel room? Going through two or three marriages? Making sexually suggestive statements about your own daughter on live TV?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 09:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 07:36:10 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
Nothing against waitresses but might be better that someone who actually has some sort of track record is leading your country.

Track record in what? Hiring contractors to do work and then refusing to pay them afterwards? Having a casino go bankrupt? Setting up business after business and watching them go bankrupt? Getting p1ssed on by a hooker in a Moscow hotel room? Going through two or three marriages? Making sexually suggestive statements about your own daughter on live TV?
Don't forget witness tampering.

"The party of law and order", or something,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 09:48:45 PM
Who would haave guessed that a racist Republican would appoint a racist?!

Florida Secretary of State Mike Ertel resigns after Halloween blackface photos emerge

https://eu.tallahassee.com/story/news/2019/01/24/new-secretary-state-ertel-dressed-blackface-halloween-2005/2649161002/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 12:32:07 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM


Nothing against waitresses but might be better that someone who actually has some sort of track record is leading your country.


Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha

Look at your trump2020 and read what you have written

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha

A waitress is significantly more qualifies than the incumbent.

So are most bar staff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2019, 02:38:06 AM
very good óráid

https://mobile.twitter.com/RanttMedia/status/1088585041763098624
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 25, 2019, 09:41:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2019, 05:57:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 05:42:46 PM
This is Marie Antoinette-esque. Ross's net worth in 2017 was €700 million. A government for the people...yeah right.

Wilbur Ross, Trump's millionaire Commerce Secretary, says he doesn't understand why federal workers are going to food banks during government shutdown

https://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-wilbur-ross-why-federal-workers-go-to-food-banks-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

My wife is a federal worker (who has been working all through). We've had to get a loan.

You think Trump is going to cover the interest?

Is the expectation that the pay will be backdated once this is sorted?

If it isn't these Federal workers would be better sitting at home and bringing this crap to a head, in fact the Federal workers should call a day of inaction anyway to get it sorted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 25, 2019, 10:18:14 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 12:32:07 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM


Nothing against waitresses but might be better that someone who actually has some sort of track record is leading your country.


Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha

Look at your trump2020 and read what you have written

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha

A waitress is significantly more qualifies than the incumbent.

So are most bar staff.
That's a ridiculous comment, to be fair.

In all my life I've never come across anybody working in a bar who wouldn't be better qualified to be US president than Trump.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 25, 2019, 09:41:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 24, 2019, 05:57:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 05:42:46 PM
This is Marie Antoinette-esque. Ross's net worth in 2017 was €700 million. A government for the people...yeah right.

Wilbur Ross, Trump's millionaire Commerce Secretary, says he doesn't understand why federal workers are going to food banks during government shutdown

https://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-wilbur-ross-why-federal-workers-go-to-food-banks-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

My wife is a federal worker (who has been working all through). We've had to get a loan.

You think Trump is going to cover the interest?

Is the expectation that the pay will be backdated once this is sorted?

If it isn't these Federal workers would be better sitting at home and bringing this crap to a head, in fact the Federal workers should call a day of inaction anyway to get it sorted.

Federal employees will be back paid once it reopens (unless Trump or McConnell decide otherwise).

Federal contractors probably not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 11:36:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 24, 2019, 09:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 07:36:10 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
Nothing against waitresses but might be better that someone who actually has some sort of track record is leading your country.

Track record in what? Hiring contractors to do work and then refusing to pay them afterwards? Having a casino go bankrupt? Setting up business after business and watching them go bankrupt? Getting p1ssed on by a hooker in a Moscow hotel room? Going through two or three marriages? Making sexually suggestive statements about your own daughter on live TV?
Don't forget witness tampering.

"The party of law and order", or something,

You do realize that answering your own alter-ego's comments is insane Sid / Eamonnca1 ?

Reminds me of this handsome chap.

(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1200/0*yt7Mwvdb8e08xxhk.jpg)

I bet the image is not far from the truth ;)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 25, 2019, 11:39:49 AM
QuoteSpecial Counsel: Roger Stone was arrested following an indictment by a federal grand jury in D.C.

The indictment, unsealed upon arrest, contains seven counts: one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, five counts of false statements, and one count of witness tampering.     
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 12:32:07 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM


Nothing against waitresses but might be better that someone who actually has some sort of track record is leading your country.


Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha

Look at your trump2020 and read what you have written

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha

A waitress is significantly more qualifies than the incumbent.

So are most bar staff.

Donald Trump has run a private business worth billions.

Alexandria whatever-cortez experience is cleaning toilets and maybe opening a bottle of beer.


Yes. You're right Hegan.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 11:42:56 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 24, 2019, 07:36:10 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
Nothing against waitresses but might be better that someone who actually has some sort of track record is leading your country.

Track record in what? Hiring contractors to do work and then refusing to pay them afterwards? Having a casino go bankrupt? Setting up business after business and watching them go bankrupt? Getting p1ssed on by a hooker in a Moscow hotel room? Going through two or three marriages? Making sexually suggestive statements about your own daughter on live TV?

How do you manage to make the lies into truths in your own head. Get help.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 11:43:54 AM
Dolph1's hero has just been arrested . . . Mueller is gettin there!!!

(https://www.newsmax.com/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=e1f30f68-cd8f-4f03-a56e-554576d377f7&SiteName=Newsmax&maxsidesize=600)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 11:43:54 AM
Dolph1's hero has just been arrested . . . Mueller is gettin there!!!

Let's see what he's actually been arrested for first. The lessons of jumping in without having facts should have been learned this week.

When is Mueller going to look into Hillary Clinton? Seriously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 12:59:41 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 12:32:07 AM

A waitress is significantly more qualifies than the incumbent.

So are most bar staff.

Tell me Hegan. Do you actually back Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's viewpoints and policies.
I have a hard time believing anyone with an ounce of sense could agree with her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 01:23:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 11:43:54 AM
Dolph1's hero has just been arrested . . . Mueller is gettin there!!!

Let's see what he's actually been arrested for first. The lessons of jumping in without having facts should have been learned this week.

When is Mueller going to look into Hillary Clinton? Seriously.

Hillary has been investigated since like 2012 and you've got nothing. . . Judging by the charges it will be interesting to see what happens, Roger Stone wouldn't strike me as the most loyal of dudes I wonder if he's able to offer up the big one!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 01:23:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 11:43:54 AM
Dolph1's hero has just been arrested . . . Mueller is gettin there!!!

Let's see what he's actually been arrested for first. The lessons of jumping in without having facts should have been learned this week.

When is Mueller going to look into Hillary Clinton? Seriously.

Hillary has been investigated since like 2012 and you've got nothing. . . Judging by the charges it will be interesting to see what happens, Roger Stone wouldn't strike me as the most loyal of dudes I wonder if he's able to offer up the big one!!

Hillary was cleared before she was even tried. You can continue to believe that doesn't stink.
Any honest person would ask for a full investigation into that server and the Russian dossier.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 02:17:23 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 01:23:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 11:43:54 AM
Dolph1's hero has just been arrested . . . Mueller is gettin there!!!

Let's see what he's actually been arrested for first. The lessons of jumping in without having facts should have been learned this week.

When is Mueller going to look into Hillary Clinton? Seriously.

Hillary has been investigated since like 2012 and you've got nothing. . . Judging by the charges it will be interesting to see what happens, Roger Stone wouldn't strike me as the most loyal of dudes I wonder if he's able to offer up the big one!!

How many times have we heard this one?
What's the charge this time? Drinking a shot of Vokda? Wearing a ushanka? Listening to Pussy Riot?

Robert Mueller. Making crimes fit since 2017.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 25, 2019, 02:28:50 PM
Anyone who thinks the FBI conducted a thorough investigation of Hillary's emails is deluding themselves

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/01/25/politics/fbi-texts/index.html

"New excerpts of text exchanges between FBI officials Peter Strzok and Lisa Page released Thursday appear to show the two discussing the Hillary Clinton email investigation, including how much manpower they should exert and whether or not a special prosecutor should be brought in.

"She might be our next president. The last thing you need us going in there loaded for bear," Page, an FBI attorney, said in a discussion on February 25, 2016, about personnel involved in the investigation. "You think she's going to remember or care that it was more doj than fbi?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 02:30:10 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 02:17:23 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 01:23:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 11:43:54 AM
Dolph1's hero has just been arrested . . . Mueller is gettin there!!!

Let's see what he's actually been arrested for first. The lessons of jumping in without having facts should have been learned this week.

When is Mueller going to look into Hillary Clinton? Seriously.

Hillary has been investigated since like 2012 and you've got nothing. . . Judging by the charges it will be interesting to see what happens, Roger Stone wouldn't strike me as the most loyal of dudes I wonder if he's able to offer up the big one!!

How many times have we heard this one?
What's the charge this time? Drinking a shot of Vokda? Wearing a ushanka? Listening to Pussy Riot?

Robert Mueller. Making crimes fit since 2017.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Yl5aO3gdVfsQ0/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 02:30:10 PM

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Yl5aO3gdVfsQ0/giphy.gif)

I see you chose to distract rather than answer about Hillary. Because you can't honestly do so.

Nothing to see indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 02:38:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 12:32:07 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM


Nothing against waitresses but might be better that someone who actually has some sort of track record is leading your country.


Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha

Look at your trump2020 and read what you have written

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha

A waitress is significantly more qualifies than the incumbent.

So are most bar staff.

Donald Trump has run a private business worth billions.

Alexandria whatever-cortez experience is cleaning toilets and maybe opening a bottle of beer.


Yes. You're right Hegan.  ::)

Frankie Dettori was a brilliant jockey, won so many races, the best the best.

Would rule the UFC, Conor McGeegors only experience was losing amateur boxing, Lourdes Celtic and maybe a bit of plumbing.

And almost all bar staff.

Oh and where are they leading your country?

El Chapo might be a better fit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 02:39:22 PM
Yes, Hillary's emails again.... forget the guilty pleas, the ever-evolving lies, the corruption, the mafia-esque threats and praise, and Giuliani, Hillary will make all Trump's troubles go away! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: magpie seanie on January 25, 2019, 02:41:16 PM
Stone's first political campaign was for Nixon (who he has a tattoo of on his back apparently). Nice if his political campaigning is bookended by two impeachments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 02:52:00 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 25, 2019, 02:41:16 PM
Stone's first political campaign was for Nixon (who he has a tattoo of on his back apparently). Nice if his political campaigning is bookended by two impeachments.

No apparently about it!! Saw it on the documentary doing the rounds on Netflix. . . good watching if you want to watch how a complete and utter ruthless/selfish/piece of shit operates. But y'know the working class christian conservatives love these people because they're just like them even though Stone is worth $10m and is fond of the old swinging scene!!

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/05/12/arts/12GETMEROGERSTONE1/12GETMEROGERSTONE1-facebookJumbo.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 03:20:34 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 02:38:16 PM
Frankie Dettori was a brilliant jockey, won so many races, the best the best.

Would rule the UFC, Conor McGeegors only experience was losing amateur boxing, Lourdes Celtic and maybe a bit of plumbing.

And almost all bar staff.

Oh and where are they leading your country?

El Chapo might be a better fit

What is the bumbling nonsense you wrote above about?

Lay off the crack son and go to rehab. All this democrat idolising is scrambling your brain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 02:39:22 PM
Yes, Hillary's emails again.... forget the guilty pleas, the ever-evolving lies, the corruption, the mafia-esque threats and praise, and Giuliani, Hillary will make all Trump's troubles go away! ;D

I only see one side being queried. How about you saying that Hillary should be thoroughly investigated in the pursuit of equal justice, just for a little transparency.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 03:56:03 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 02:39:22 PM
Yes, Hillary's emails again.... forget the guilty pleas, the ever-evolving lies, the corruption, the mafia-esque threats and praise, and Giuliani, Hillary will make all Trump's troubles go away! ;D

I only see one side being queried. How about you saying that Hillary should be thoroughly investigated in the pursuit of equal justice, just for a little transparency.

Trump's people have run the Justice Dept for the past two years. Take it up with them if you think there's something being overlooked. Quite what that might be, I'm not sure.

Plus, how many congressional committees looked into her already starting with the Benghazi stuff? They came up with squat, despite Kevin McCarthy (in a move which torpedoed his then campaign to be Speaker) declaring on national news that they were investigating her in an attempt to damage her presidential campaign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 25, 2019, 03:57:00 PM
There is a ground stop/delay at LaGuardia due to air traffic control staffing issues.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/LaGuardia-Airport-Ground-Stop-Staffing-Shortage-Shutdown-504861791.html

A brief ground stop was ordered Friday at LaGuardia Airport, which experienced a "ripple effect" because of a spike in staff sick calls at other hubs as tensions boil over the longest federal government shutdown in U.S. history, the FAA said.

The stop was ordered shortly before 10 a.m., on the 35th day of the longest federal government shutdown in U.S. history. It had been reduced to a "ground delay program," meaning air traffic was moving again but delayed, within about 40 minutes. The FAA said LaGuardia's staffing was not the issue; the problems were in Washington, D.C., and Florida....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 03:58:15 PM
LaGuardia Airport slowing down planes and cancelling flights today due to air traffic controller shortages.

Maybe they're taking the day off to get bank loans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 04:00:40 PM
Or maybe they're down pleading with their local grocer for food on credit, as suggested by Trump himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 04:06:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 02:39:22 PM
Yes, Hillary's emails again.... forget the guilty pleas, the ever-evolving lies, the corruption, the mafia-esque threats and praise, and Giuliani, Hillary will make all Trump's troubles go away! ;D

I only see one side being queried. How about you saying that Hillary should be thoroughly investigated in the pursuit of equal justice, just for a little transparency.

She has been thoroughly investigated numerous times and there's never been any wrongdoing found. The Republicans have been in charge for 2 years now and STILL weren't able to find anything wrong.

The net is closing in on Donny!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 04:00:40 PM
Or maybe they're down pleading with their local grocer for food on credit, as suggested by Trump himself.

Yeah it will all just "work along" . . . that's the technical term for it isn't it??

It's only a half a percent of GDP no big deal!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 04:06:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 02:39:22 PM
Yes, Hillary's emails again.... forget the guilty pleas, the ever-evolving lies, the corruption, the mafia-esque threats and praise, and Giuliani, Hillary will make all Trump's troubles go away! ;D

I only see one side being queried. How about you saying that Hillary should be thoroughly investigated in the pursuit of equal justice, just for a little transparency.

She has been thoroughly investigated numerous times and there's never been any wrongdoing found. The Republicans have been in charge for 2 years now and STILL weren't able to find anything wrong.

The net is closing in on Donny!!

So you are a dishonest man too Screen?

Investigated by Comey and his goons. Yes, certainly impartial and in full view of the public  ::)
Which side were they on?? oh right!!

Keep telling us nothing to see. It really should be "Lock her up".



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 04:59:14 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 04:06:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 02:39:22 PM
Yes, Hillary's emails again.... forget the guilty pleas, the ever-evolving lies, the corruption, the mafia-esque threats and praise, and Giuliani, Hillary will make all Trump's troubles go away! ;D

I only see one side being queried. How about you saying that Hillary should be thoroughly investigated in the pursuit of equal justice, just for a little transparency.

She has been thoroughly investigated numerous times and there's never been any wrongdoing found. The Republicans have been in charge for 2 years now and STILL weren't able to find anything wrong.

The net is closing in on Donny!!

So you are a dishonest man too Screen?

Investigated by Comey and his goons. Yes, certainly impartial and in full view of the public  ::)
Which side were they on?? oh right!!

Keep telling us nothing to see. It really should be "Lock her up".

Comey has been gone a year and a half with Republicans controlling both houses. . . Why didn't they just reopen it with someone else in charge??

Comey cost Clinton the election I can't imagine he'll be invited around for tea! It is possible he hated Trump and wasn't on Hillary's side they aren't mutually exclusive!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 25, 2019, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 02:52:00 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 25, 2019, 02:41:16 PM
Stone's first political campaign was for Nixon (who he has a tattoo of on his back apparently). Nice if his political campaigning is bookended by two impeachments.

No apparently about it!! Saw it on the documentary doing the rounds on Netflix. . . good watching if you want to watch how a complete and utter ruthless/selfish/piece of shit operates. But y'know the working class christian conservatives love these people because they're just like them even though Stone is worth $10m and is fond of the old swinging scene!!

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/05/12/arts/12GETMEROGERSTONE1/12GETMEROGERSTONE1-facebookJumbo.jpg)
he won't be worth $10 when mueller is done with him and that's what mueller wants him to know u will be locked up for a long time for probably pretty minor crimes and broke if u fight it the end game here is trump however they get him is inconsequential.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 05:19:38 PM
If only these poor, innocent, persecuted, Trump-circle crayturs had access to money and high-powered lawyers to fight their corner against the big, bad evil government...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 06:34:25 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 04:59:14 PM

Comey has been gone a year and a half with Republicans controlling both houses. . . Why didn't they just reopen it with someone else in charge??

Comey cost Clinton the election I can't imagine he'll be invited around for tea! It is possible he hated Trump and wasn't on Hillary's side they aren't mutually exclusive!!

They thought Clinton had it sewn up so getting her apology in before the election would clear her in the future. That has been the case, bar winning the election.

I will agree with you on the re-opening -  should have been after her on day 1.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 07:16:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 03:20:34 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 02:38:16 PM
Frankie Dettori was a brilliant jockey, won so many races, the best the best.

Would rule the UFC, Conor McGregors only experience was losing amateur boxing, Lourdes Celtic and maybe a bit of plumbing.

And almost all bar staff.

Oh and where are they leading your country?

El Chapo might be a better fit

What is the bumbling nonsense you wrote above about?

Lay off the crack son and go to rehab. All this democrat idolising is scrambling your brain.

ok Foxy, let me lay it out for you, as we are aware that inference and drawing conclusions are seemingly not your strong suit .

1. your assumption is that Trump's running of the company that he inherited from his parents in some way qualifies him to run the government and military of the the United states. the second assumption was that AOC's experience as among other things a waitress in some way precluded her from being qualified to represent her constituency in congress.

2. my point is that your assumption is flawed and is the equivalent of frankie dettori being a world class jockey (as opposed to trump not being a world class business leader who didn't pay his staff and faced numerous bankruptcies ) being in some way qualified to be a world champion in the UFC, and that Conor McGregor experience as an unsuccessful soccer player at Lourdes Celtic or amateur boxer in some way would preclude his success.

3. is a reface to Sid's comment about my bar staff reference- I said most- would be better qualified to be president of the US than the incumbent- he said all- I'll agree to go with almost all.

4. you said someone with experience leading the country- my question is where exactly are they leading the country?

5. el chapo's experience at leading his org may be the best possible preparation for leading the united states.

and again for the record- not a democrat, hardcore capitalist, and economic realist. its the economic realism or indeed any ties to reality that has me leaning heavily towards the democratic party in the united states at this point.

and also- if you have even bothered to read this far- can you take some time to think about the direction that you want the united states to go? foreigners out and lower taxes for the rich have zero track record in all of human history of improving the lot of those who live there who do not have a significant amount of accumulated wealth.  if you have kids do you think that the current political leadership (or those of the last 20 years) are building a country for their success either individually or collectively? do you think that a preservation of the status quo of low taxes for the wealthy, increased costs of healthcare and education, decreases of medical coverage for the poor and the elderly and the removal of a social safety net will set up the economic welfare of anything other than the super wealthy? You in retirement, your kids and your neighbors and family and friends are statistically likely to get shafted and not have a support system that enables your wellbeing, comfort and security.

When you have done that exercise, do you believe that leadership of either party is on the way to looking after the people of the country. Short version is that neither are doing a good job, but the idea of leaders looking after the welfare of the country by driving fear based on non existing immigration problems, gay marriage, abortion and gender issues as the foundation of the future is a complete and utter disgrace. Republicans are looking backwards at this point. The leadership of the democratic party is at least aiming for the future, however the fractious, scare mongering, hysterical approach we see from them in the press is a load of crap. They don't present a coherent approach that makes them electable.

Build new infrastructure and fix the breaking system- fix the tax code so that the load of rebuilding the country is fairly spread- make education and healthcare an easily affordable afterthought. Get out of the residents bedrooms, bodies and their living arrangements. Stop calling God and the Rapture. I don't know who can do that, but someone needs to. Whoever can do that and get the 99% to vote in their own interest now rather than pretending that you should vote based on how little tax you'd like to play when you become a billionaire will be a great leader of the US, no matter what party they represent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair fucks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 04:59:14 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 25, 2019, 04:06:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 02:39:22 PM
Yes, Hillary's emails again.... forget the guilty pleas, the ever-evolving lies, the corruption, the mafia-esque threats and praise, and Giuliani, Hillary will make all Trump's troubles go away! ;D

I only see one side being queried. How about you saying that Hillary should be thoroughly investigated in the pursuit of equal justice, just for a little transparency.

She has been thoroughly investigated numerous times and there's never been any wrongdoing found. The Republicans have been in charge for 2 years now and STILL weren't able to find anything wrong.

The net is closing in on Donny!!

So you are a dishonest man too Screen?

Investigated by Comey and his goons. Yes, certainly impartial and in full view of the public  ::)
Which side were they on?? oh right!!

Keep telling us nothing to see. It really should be "Lock her up".

Comey has been gone a year and a half with Republicans controlling both houses. . . Why didn't they just reopen it with someone else in charge??

Comey cost Clinton the election I can't imagine he'll be invited around for tea! It is possible he hated Trump and wasn't on Hillary's side they aren't mutually exclusive!!
[/quote


If Hillary had won, and it came out after the fact that the FBI knew about Wienars laptop and hadnt disclosed it I can't even imaging what would have happened

Comey had, in my opinion, no choice but to go public. He had promised under oath that he would update Congress if there were any material updates to the investigation and this was one.

Maybe if fvckin stupid Hillary and Huma hadn't thought they were against the law she might actually have won
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

Pelosi would let them die before negotiating. This will come back to bite for 2020.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

He may finally have done something that will cost him re-election

I think all the Republican business Travellers trying to get home on a Friday may have been the tipping point-lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:56:21 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 07:16:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 03:20:34 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 02:38:16 PM
Frankie Dettori was a brilliant jockey, won so many races, the best the best.

Would rule the UFC, Conor McGregors only experience was losing amateur boxing, Lourdes Celtic and maybe a bit of plumbing.

And almost all bar staff.

Oh and where are they leading your country?

El Chapo might be a better fit

What is the bumbling nonsense you wrote above about?

Lay off the crack son and go to rehab. All this democrat idolising is scrambling your brain.

ok Foxy, let me lay it out for you, as we are aware that inference and drawing conclusions are seemingly not your strong suit .

1. your assumption is that Trump's running of the company that he inherited from his parents in some way qualifies him to run the government and military of the the United states. the second assumption was that AOC's experience as among other things a waitress in some way precluded her from being qualified to represent her constituency in congress.

2. my point is that your assumption is flawed and is the equivalent of frankie dettori being a world class jockey (as opposed to trump not being a world class business leader who didn't pay his staff and faced numerous bankruptcies ) being in some way qualified to be a world champion in the UFC, and that Conor McGregor experience as an unsuccessful soccer player at Lourdes Celtic or amateur boxer in some way would preclude his success.

3. is a reface to Sid's comment about my bar staff reference- I said most- would be better qualified to be president of the US than the incumbent- he said all- I'll agree to go with almost all.

4. you said someone with experience leading the country- my question is where exactly are they leading the country?

5. el chapo's experience at leading his org may be the best possible preparation for leading the united states.

and again for the record- not a democrat, hardcore capitalist, and economic realist. its the economic realism or indeed any ties to reality that has me leaning heavily towards the democratic party in the united states at this point.

and also- if you have even bothered to read this far- can you take some time to think about the direction that you want the united states to go? foreigners out and lower taxes for the rich have zero track record in all of human history of improving the lot of those who live there who do not have a significant amount of accumulated wealth.  if you have kids do you think that the current political leadership (or those of the last 20 years) are building a country for their success either individually or collectively? do you think that a preservation of the status quo of low taxes for the wealthy, increased costs of healthcare and education, decreases of medical coverage for the poor and the elderly and the removal of a social safety net will set up the economic welfare of anything other than the super wealthy? You in retirement, your kids and your neighbors and family and friends are statistically likely to get shafted and not have a support system that enables your wellbeing, comfort and security.

When you have done that exercise, do you believe that leadership of either party is on the way to looking after the people of the country. Short version is that neither are doing a good job, but the idea of leaders looking after the welfare of the country by driving fear based on non existing immigration problems, gay marriage, abortion and gender issues as the foundation of the future is a complete and utter disgrace. Republicans are looking backwards at this point. The leadership of the democratic party is at least aiming for the future, however the fractious, scare mongering, hysterical approach we see from them in the press is a load of crap. They don't present a coherent approach that makes them electable.

Build new infrastructure and fix the breaking system- fix the tax code so that the load of rebuilding the country is fairly spread- make education and healthcare an easily affordable afterthought. Get out of the residents bedrooms, bodies and their living arrangements. Stop calling God and the Rapture. I don't know who can do that, but someone needs to. Whoever can do that and get the 99% to vote in their own interest now rather than pretending that you should vote based on how little tax you'd like to play when you become a billionaire will be a great leader of the US, no matter what party they represent.

Blah blah blah. Trump not fit for office. Blah blah blah.
Your lot have lost the plot. Not worth debating with you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

He may finally have done something that will cost him re-election

I think all the Republican business Travellers trying to get home on a Friday may have been the tipping point-lol

Maybe not. People are seeing that the democrats don't actually give a f**k about them and are completely focused on supporting illegals first.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

He may finally have done something that will cost him re-election

I think all the Republican business Travellers trying to get home on a Friday may have been the tipping point-lol

Maybe not. People are seeing that the democrats don't actually give a f**k about them and are completely focused on supporting illegals first.

Poor foxy. Your boy folded like a cheap suit!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 08:03:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

Pelosi would let them die before negotiating. This will come back to bite for 2020.

As a member one of the affected families, she kicked his arse.

He should never have shut it down in the first place. That was all his decision, when he once again changed course and folded because Limbaugh and Coulter got mad.

And now he is right back where he started and where she told him he needed to be to start negotiating.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 08:05:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

He may finally have done something that will cost him re-election

I think all the Republican business Travellers trying to get home on a Friday may have been the tipping point-lol

It's a long time (and a Mueller report  :P) until the election.

Plenty can happen either way.

But yeah, I would say the airports absolutely were the final nail in the coffin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 25, 2019, 08:10:53 PM
Stone appeared outside after his court appearance

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/us/politics/roger-stone-statement.html

"[Crowd: Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!]"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2019, 08:13:47 PM
Quote from: dec on January 25, 2019, 08:10:53 PM
Stone appeared outside after his court appearance

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/us/politics/roger-stone-statement.html

"[Crowd: Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!]"

;D

I liked his raised arm salute to Nixon too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 25, 2019, 08:47:17 PM
The Art of the Deal!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2019, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:56:21 PM
Blah blah blah. Trump not fit for office. Blah blah blah.
Your lot have lost the plot. Not worth debating with you.

Yes!!  At last! The troll has got the message! It's over! He's leaving! Hurrah!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thebigfella on January 25, 2019, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2019, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:56:21 PM
Blah blah blah. Trump not fit for office. Blah blah blah.
Your lot have lost the plot. Not worth debating with you.

Yes!!  At last! The troll has got the message! It's over! He's leaving! Hurrah!

You should really Fcuk up as you are just as big a troll. You whinge bag  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 25, 2019, 09:29:27 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxyDZqCV4AA6aIK.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 10:00:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

He may finally have done something that will cost him re-election

I think all the Republican business Travellers trying to get home on a Friday may have been the tipping point-lol

Maybe not. People are seeing that the democrats don't actually give a f**k about them and are completely focused on supporting illegals first.

Poor foxy. Your boy folded like a cheap suit!  ;D ;D

If you disagree with President Trump then don't take the federal paycheck he's giving you.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 10:00:38 PM
Quote from: dec on January 25, 2019, 09:29:27 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxyDZqCV4AA6aIK.jpg:large)

Oh how clever  ::)

You must have had a liberal education Dec. Didn't win the spelling bee I take it?

Smart lad  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 10:01:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 25, 2019, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2019, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:56:21 PM
Blah blah blah. Trump not fit for office. Blah blah blah.
Your lot have lost the plot. Not worth debating with you.

Yes!!  At last! The troll has got the message! It's over! He's leaving! Hurrah!

You should really Fcuk up as you are just as big a troll. You whinge bag  ::)

Keep taking the meds Eamonnca1\Sid. I'm still here for you  :-*
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2019, 11:33:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 10:01:34 PM
Keep taking the meds Eamonnca1\Sid. I'm still here for you  :-*

Careful, Fox. The paranoids are out to get you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 11:54:26 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:56:21 PM

Blah blah blah. Trump not fit for office. Blah blah blah.
Your lot have lost the plot. Not worth debating with you.

You and your boy just folded on the same day! Keep up the good work Foxy.
Next day you debate will be your first.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2019, 12:28:13 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 25, 2019, 11:54:26 PM

You and your boy just folded on the same day! Keep up the good work Foxy.
Next day you debate will be your first.

Gotta hand it to Foxkkkommander. He hangs in there even though he's well established as the laughing stock of the board!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2019, 12:32:02 AM
Stealing from a friend:

Well i thought it was a distraction from Russia investigation all along.  However I think Stone arrest is only partly responsible. 

I had a feeling that airports would be the breaking point for the GOP shutdown, and it looks like they were. Air Traffic Controllers called in sick this morning (had been slowly increasing as shutdown went on) but it seems like today it hit a critical mass.  That prompted La Guardia to ground all flights for an hour this morning. Then it spiralled out of control as delays rippled out from New York to the northeast. Once it hit Atlanta they were in real trouble, as it is world's busiest airport.

Delays were building rapidly. More than 200 inbound flights were showing as significantly behind schedule. Arrivals from Pittsburgh, Knoxville, Cleveland, Fort Myers and Chicago were delayed by three hours or more. Delta, AA, Southwest and Air Canada had begun cancelling flights in and out of LGA and Atlanta. With Air Traffic Control problems also reported at Newark, Washington National, Tampa and Philadelphia.  They were looking at the whole system grinding to a halt in a matter of hours.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2019, 01:12:08 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 10:00:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

He may finally have done something that will cost him re-election

I think all the Republican business Travellers trying to get home on a Friday may have been the tipping point-lol

Maybe not. People are seeing that the democrats don't actually give a f**k about them and are completely focused on supporting illegals first.

Poor foxy. Your boy folded like a cheap suit!  ;D ;D

If you disagree with President Trump then don't take the federal paycheck he's giving you.

My wife earns her cheque. She doesn't owe Trump anything except her competence and best effort at her job. She certainly doesn't owe him any personal or political loyalty. You know, like any other civil servant...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 26, 2019, 01:51:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 01:12:08 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 10:00:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

He may finally have done something that will cost him re-election

I think all the Republican business Travellers trying to get home on a Friday may have been the tipping point-lol

Maybe not. People are seeing that the democrats don't actually give a f**k about them and are completely focused on supporting illegals first.

Poor foxy. Your boy folded like a cheap suit!  ;D ;D

If you disagree with President Trump then don't take the federal paycheck he's giving you.

My wife earns her cheque. She doesn't owe Trump anything except her competence and best effort at her job. She certainly doesn't owe him any personal or political loyalty. You know, like any other civil servant...

Don't be justifying anything like this to that bellend... how many people support the boss they work for??

Work is work!! How many people agree with their bosses??!! Let her work away hopefully she can negate some of the madness she has to endure from the top!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 26, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
The front page of the Fox news.com website has no coverage of the government shut down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2019, 03:59:58 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 26, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
The front page of the Fox news.com website has no coverage of the government shut down

You know what they say about open wounds... ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

What exactly did she lobby for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2019, 05:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

What exactly did she lobby for?

"Light/lenient" sentences

https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/minnesota-democratic-rep-omar-wrote-judge-requesting-lenient-sentence-for-isis-recruit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:32:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 05:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

What exactly did she lobby for?

"Light/lenient" sentences

https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/minnesota-democratic-rep-omar-wrote-judge-requesting-lenient-sentence-for-isis-recruit

I see her in that piece making objections to 30-40 year sentences for 20 year olds. But what sentence did she advocate for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2019, 05:42:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:32:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 05:20:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

What exactly did she lobby for?

"Light/lenient" sentences

https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/minnesota-democratic-rep-omar-wrote-judge-requesting-lenient-sentence-for-isis-recruit

I see her in that piece making objections to 30-40 year sentences for 20 year olds. But what sentence did she advocate for?

Don't know.....it doesn't say, but purely hazzarding a guess I'd say 10 or 20 years


Edit: The ones who cooperated got light sentences-4/5 years

The defense did lobby for 15 year sentences for those the prosecution wanted 40 for so my guess was correct

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:57:46 PM
15 years, along with some serious rehab, for some young moron trying to get to Syria to fight for ISIS?

It's not a ridiculous proposition, in my opinion.

If they'd actually hurt or tried to hurt someone, then that's a different story obviously.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2019, 06:34:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:57:46 PM
15 years, along with some serious rehab, for some young moron trying to get to Syria to fight for ISIS?

It's not a ridiculous proposition, in my opinion.

If they'd actually hurt or tried to hurt someone, then that's a different story obviously.

Actually I'd be more in favor of a life sentence myself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 26, 2019, 08:02:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:57:46 PM
15 years, along with some serious rehab, for some young moron trying to get to Syria to fight for ISIS?

It's not a ridiculous proposition, in my opinion.

If they'd actually hurt or tried to hurt someone, then that's a different story obviously.
j70 what sentence does stone deserve
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on January 27, 2019, 01:20:56 AM
 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2538028592895282&id=908009612563863
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 27, 2019, 01:25:54 AM
Lolzers  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxykDjYVYAAIpd0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 27, 2019, 02:33:24 AM
It is all going arseways for Trump


https://mobile.twitter.com/jentaub/status/1089193853230505984

Brexit is also falling apart
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2019, 04:10:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 27, 2019, 02:33:24 AM
It is all going arseways for Trump


https://mobile.twitter.com/jentaub/status/1089193853230505984

Brexit is also falling apart

I think Donnie junior is definitely going down, but im not sure they have the goods on Trump himself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 27, 2019, 07:19:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2019, 04:10:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 27, 2019, 02:33:24 AM
It is all going arseways for Trump


https://mobile.twitter.com/jentaub/status/1089193853230505984

Brexit is also falling apart

I think Donnie junior is definitely going down, but im not sure they have the goods on Trump himself

All the misogyny came back to him in the midterms. Pelosi owns him
It's not just one thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2019, 12:44:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2019, 08:02:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 05:57:46 PM
15 years, along with some serious rehab, for some young moron trying to get to Syria to fight for ISIS?

It's not a ridiculous proposition, in my opinion.

If they'd actually hurt or tried to hurt someone, then that's a different story obviously.
j70 what sentence does stone deserve

Don't know. Haven't been following him too closely. Don't give a f**k about him to be honest. The shutdown debacle was of much more concern to me when it comes to the conduct of Trump and his circle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 01:35:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 06:34:10 PM

Actually I'd be more in favor of a life sentence myself

I wonder what kind of sentence you're going to want for Trump when his time comes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:28:08 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 01:35:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 06:34:10 PM

Actually I'd be more in favor of a life sentence myself

I wonder what kind of sentence you're going to want for Trump when his time comes.

Im good with whatever sentence Mueller and the prosecutors arrive at
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on January 28, 2019, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2019, 01:25:54 AM
Lolzers  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxykDjYVYAAIpd0.jpg)

the Democrats have to be careful now.

bill Clinton was hit the same way after an initial shutdown, only the Republicans  tried to screw him which resulted in a second shutdown and a massive victory for Bill (as the rep were seen as not acting in the best interests of the country)

If the Democrats don't find a solution that could at least counter that narrative, then on the 15th of Feb, Trump could shutdown the government and blame it totally on the democrats, as he's "tried to negotiate, he compromised with the bill to reopen the government with the intent to discuss the wall but that didn't happen)

Up until now, Nancy has played a blinder, but they have only won the battle, not the war
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 28, 2019, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on January 28, 2019, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2019, 01:25:54 AM
Lolzers  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxykDjYVYAAIpd0.jpg)

the Democrats have to be careful now.

bill Clinton was hit the same way after an initial shutdown, only the Republicans  tried to screw him which resulted in a second shutdown and a massive victory for Bill (as the rep were seen as not acting in the best interests of the country)

If the Democrats don't find a solution that could at least counter that narrative, then on the 15th of Feb, Trump could shutdown the government and blame it totally on the democrats, as he's "tried to negotiate, he compromised with the bill to reopen the government with the intent to discuss the wall but that didn't happen)

Up until now, Nancy has played a blinder, but they have only won the battle, not the war
Trump blames the Democrats for everything.

Nobody's listening anymore.

He owns it and he's on record as owning it.

"The wall" is a Reichstag fire.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2019, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 28, 2019, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on January 28, 2019, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2019, 01:25:54 AM
Lolzers  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxykDjYVYAAIpd0.jpg)

the Democrats have to be careful now.

bill Clinton was hit the same way after an initial shutdown, only the Republicans  tried to screw him which resulted in a second shutdown and a massive victory for Bill (as the rep were seen as not acting in the best interests of the country)

If the Democrats don't find a solution that could at least counter that narrative, then on the 15th of Feb, Trump could shutdown the government and blame it totally on the democrats, as he's "tried to negotiate, he compromised with the bill to reopen the government with the intent to discuss the wall but that didn't happen)

Up until now, Nancy has played a blinder, but they have only won the battle, not the war
Trump blames the Democrats for everything.

Nobody's listening anymore.

He owns it and he's on record as owning it.

"The wall" is a Reichstag fire.

Trump spent January insisting there was a crisis and nobody bought it

Then he ceded national security to a blonde union leader with balls

The GOP is broken



https://mobile.twitter.com/RanttMedia/status/1088585041763098624
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2019, 11:21:28 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on January 28, 2019, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2019, 01:25:54 AM
Lolzers  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxykDjYVYAAIpd0.jpg)

the Democrats have to be careful now.

bill Clinton was hit the same way after an initial shutdown, only the Republicans  tried to screw him which resulted in a second shutdown and a massive victory for Bill (as the rep were seen as not acting in the best interests of the country)

If the Democrats don't find a solution that could at least counter that narrative, then on the 15th of Feb, Trump could shutdown the government and blame it totally on the democrats, as he's "tried to negotiate, he compromised with the bill to reopen the government with the intent to discuss the wall but that didn't happen)

Up until now, Nancy has played a blinder, but they have only won the battle, not the war

If Trump shuts down the government again, that's his decision, not the Democrats. He is president, not king. He tried the thuggish blackmail route once already. Why would he think it would turn out differently next time?

The Democrats will have their position.The Republicans will have theirs. For something to pass both chambers, some compromise will have to be reached. That compromise, if there is one, will land on his desk. Whether or not he signs it is entirely up to him. The Democrats are under no obligation to sign off on everything Trump wants, just as he isn't under any to sign off on everything they want. Hopefully the last month put some manners on him and he now realizes the way the system works.

Personally, I've no issue with giving him money for fences/walls in vulnerable areas, as well as for the hi-tech stuff to assist the CBP. As long as he gives something worthwhile in return on the Dreamers and TPS people. I expect that will be the sticking point for him, just as it was last year when was offered the full 25B for the "wall".

I also hope one of these bills setting legislation to prevent shutdowns passes also. Its time to remove that particular ransom demand from the GOP bag of tricks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on January 28, 2019, 12:14:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2019, 11:21:28 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on January 28, 2019, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2019, 01:25:54 AM
Lolzers  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxykDjYVYAAIpd0.jpg)

the Democrats have to be careful now.

bill Clinton was hit the same way after an initial shutdown, only the Republicans  tried to screw him which resulted in a second shutdown and a massive victory for Bill (as the rep were seen as not acting in the best interests of the country)

If the Democrats don't find a solution that could at least counter that narrative, then on the 15th of Feb, Trump could shutdown the government and blame it totally on the democrats, as he's "tried to negotiate, he compromised with the bill to reopen the government with the intent to discuss the wall but that didn't happen)

Up until now, Nancy has played a blinder, but they have only won the battle, not the war

If Trump shuts down the government again, that's his decision, not the Democrats. He is president, not king. He tried the thuggish blackmail route once already. Why would he think it would turn out differently next time?

The Democrats will have their position.The Republicans will have theirs. For something to pass both chambers, some compromise will have to be reached. That compromise, if there is one, will land on his desk. Whether or not he signs it is entirely up to him. The Democrats are under no obligation to sign off on everything Trump wants, just as he isn't under any to sign off on everything they want. Hopefully the last month put some manners on him and he now realizes the way the system works.

Personally, I've no issue with giving him money for fences/walls in vulnerable areas, as well as for the hi-tech stuff to assist the CBP. As long as he gives something worthwhile in return on the Dreamers and TPS people. I expect that will be the sticking point for him, just as it was last year when was offered the full 25B for the "wall".

I also hope one of these bills setting legislation to prevent shutdowns passes also. Its time to remove that particular ransom demand from the GOP bag of tricks.

It's all about positioning. Trump thought that the macho "I'll own the shutdown", would show that he is a lead taking on the evil democrats, but Nancy completely used that sound bite, and the blame was 100% focused on Trump, and the Dems didn't do anything wrong to change that narrative. If the come across as too aggressive in the next couple of weeks, that image could reverse. (as per the Bill Clinton shutdown)

some compromise will have to be reached ... Totally, that's the critical point. The two houses need to come up with a some compromise, then Trump is on the hot seat.

legislation to prevent shutdowns .. I agree, however this could lead to political gridlock

GOP bag of tricks.  It's not a GOP bag of tricks... it's a Washington DC bag of tricks used by both Rep and Dems alike ( name a president that hasn't had a shutdown)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2019, 01:09:02 PM
If the GOP are not the happier, more tactical, users of shutdowns, we'll see how enthusiastic they are to legislate away their use as blackmail tools.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 28, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
Were you advising Piersy this morning kickhams??

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6640155/PIERS-MORGAN-Pelosis-played-chump-Mr-President-time-deal-Wall.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on January 28, 2019, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 28, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
Were you advising Piersy this morning kickhams??

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6640155/PIERS-MORGAN-Pelosis-played-chump-Mr-President-time-deal-Wall.html

LOL, No, wish I was and charging an extortionate fee to provide logical advise :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 01:12:08 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 10:00:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

He may finally have done something that will cost him re-election

I think all the Republican business Travellers trying to get home on a Friday may have been the tipping point-lol

Maybe not. People are seeing that the democrats don't actually give a f**k about them and are completely focused on supporting illegals first.

Poor foxy. Your boy folded like a cheap suit!  ;D ;D

If you disagree with President Trump then don't take the federal paycheck he's giving you.

My wife earns her cheque. She doesn't owe Trump anything except her competence and best effort at her job. She certainly doesn't owe him any personal or political loyalty. You know, like any other civil servant...

I'm sure she had earned it as do all civil servants. Doesn't change the fact that Nancy would rather you starve to death on her principles than even attempt to negotiate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2019, 03:35:25 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2019, 01:12:08 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 10:00:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 25, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 25, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
After all that, he caves again! ;D ;D

Was it worth it Donald? You're right back where you where before Xmas.

And that puts to bed any doubts there was about Pelosi as new Speaker. I shared them, but fair f**ks to her; she played a blinder. And if he shuts it down again, leave the **** hanging in the wind again. This use of federal workers as hostages has to stop.

He may finally have done something that will cost him re-election

I think all the Republican business Travellers trying to get home on a Friday may have been the tipping point-lol

Maybe not. People are seeing that the democrats don't actually give a f**k about them and are completely focused on supporting illegals first.

Poor foxy. Your boy folded like a cheap suit!  ;D ;D

If you disagree with President Trump then don't take the federal paycheck he's giving you.

My wife earns her cheque. She doesn't owe Trump anything except her competence and best effort at her job. She certainly doesn't owe him any personal or political loyalty. You know, like any other civil servant...

I'm sure she had earned it as do all civil servants. Doesn't change the fact that Nancy would rather you starve to death on her principles than even attempt to negotiate.

No, Pelosi told Trump to open the government, THEN they'd negotiate. By giving in to him, she would have effectively been selling out the government workers by encouraging Trump to use them as hostages again and again when he didn't get his own way. Now, assuming he has some capacity for learning, he'll think twice about that and step back from his cavalier attitude towards government shutdowns and employees (I wonder does he still think that America could use a good long government shutdown, as he stated on several occasions last year?).
Further, part of the reason Trump ended up giving in was that the public saw through his bullshit and overwhelmingly, and appropriately, blamed him. After all, it was HIS choice to shut it down when he backed out of signing the pre-Xmas deal he'd earlier indicated he would allow through.
Finally, Pelosi PASSED legislation to refund the government and pay the federal employees. That, along with the deal Trump rejected at the last minute in December, meant that the funding had passed BOTH chambers. The only impediment was Trump and his fear of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter and their ilk.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 28, 2019, 03:38:55 PM
Poor Ann is in bad form over it . . . great to see!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on January 28, 2019, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

The GOP seems that their policy was to create ISIS by going into Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 28, 2019, 04:44:16 PM
If only jobs were the real indicator of how the economy is doing . . .


https://www.cbo.gov/system/files?file=2019-01/54918-Outlook.pdf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2019, 05:47:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 28, 2019, 04:44:16 PM
If only jobs were the real indicator of how the economy is doing . . .


https://www.cbo.gov/system/files?file=2019-01/54918-Outlook.pdf
Low unemployment is meaningless when there are no payrises and
most new jobs are crap. England has low unemployment but no payrises and 1% growth.
France has low unemployment and a growing insurrection based around purchasing power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 28, 2019, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

The GOP seems that their policy was to create ISIS by going into Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place.

Democrats are hell bent on importing it and incubating it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on January 28, 2019, 09:25:11 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 28, 2019, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

The GOP seems that their policy was to create ISIS by going into Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place.

Democrats are hell bent on importing it and incubating it.

Lol Dolph. Just actually got around to watching Pelosi and Trump duking it out. He's so out of his depth its unbelievable. To think any intelligent person voted for him never mind still supports him is incredible. Claiming a victory when Pelosi pulled his pants down and spanked him is unbelievable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on January 28, 2019, 10:47:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

What if the leaders of the Republican party refused to call these right wing killers ''Domestic terrorists''....oh wait a minute thats exactly what happens every time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2019, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 28, 2019, 10:47:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

What if the leaders of the Republican party refused to call these right wing killers ''Domestic terrorists''....oh wait a minute thats exactly what happens every time.

Completely different topic, but nice attempt at changing the subject.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Therealdonald on January 29, 2019, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 28, 2019, 10:47:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

What if the leaders of the Republican party refused to call these right wing killers ''Domestic terrorists''....oh wait a minute thats exactly what happens every time.

Completely different topic, but nice attempt at changing the subject.

Right wing extremists were mentioned in the thread? Or is it only Islamic extremists that should be condemned?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 29, 2019, 01:05:53 AM
This is what fascism is. You create an environment where people are afraid to do normal, decent things for fear they might be imprisoned, and you reward ruthless killers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/convicted-for-leaving-water-for-migrants-in-the-desert--this-is-trumps-justice/2019/01/27/9d4b3104-2013-11e9-8b59-0a28f2191131_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.456cc46a731e

Convicted for leaving water for migrants in the desert: This is Trump's justice

By Editorial Board
January 27

A FEW weeks ago, federal prosecutors in Arizona secured a conviction against four humanitarian aid workers who left water in the desert for migrants who might otherwise die of heat exposure and thirst. Separately, they dropped manslaughter charges against a U.S. Border Patrol agent who fired 16 times across the border, killing a teenage Mexican boy. The aid workers face a fine and up to six months in jail. The Border Patrol officer faces no further legal consequences.

That is a snapshot of twisted frontier justice in the age of Trump. Save a migrant's life, and you risk becoming a political prisoner. Kill a Mexican teenager, and you walk free.

The four aid workers, all women, were volunteers in service to an organization, No More Deaths, whose religious views inform its mission to prevent undocumented migrants from dying during their perilous northward trek. They drove into the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge, about 100 miles southwest of Phoenix, to leave water jugs along with some canned beans.

The women — Natalie Hoffman, Oona Holcomb, Madeline Huse and Zaachila Orozco-McCormick — made no effort to conceal their work. Confronted by a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officer, they said they believed everyone deserved access to basic survival needs. One of them, Ms. Orozco-McCormick, compared the wildlife refuge to a graveyard, such is the ubiquity of human remains there.

Since the turn of the century, more than 2,100 undocumented migrants have died in that sun-scorched region of southern Arizona, according to Humane Borders, a nonprofit group that keeps track of the numbers. Last year, according to the Pima County Medical Examiner's Office, the remains of 127 dead migrants were recovered there.

In the past, prosecutors declined to press charges against the volunteers who try to help by leaving water and canned food in the desert. But the four women, arrested in August 2017, were tried for the misdemeanor offenses of entering a refuge without a permit, abandoning personal property and, in the case of Ms. Hoffman, driving in a restricted area. U.S. Magistrate Judge Bernardo Velasco, who presided over the bench trial, said their actions ran afoul of the "national decision to maintain the Reserve in its pristine nature."

In fact, prosecutors have broad discretion in deciding whether to press such minor charges — just as they do in more consequential cases such as the manslaughter charge against Lonnie Swartz, the Border Patrol agent who killed 16-year-old José Antonio Elena Rodríguez in October 2012. According to Mr. Swartz, he opened fire on the boy, shooting 16 times in what the agent said was self-defense, through the fence that divides the city of Nogales along the Arizona-Mexico border. He said the boy had been throwing stones at him across the frontier.

Mr. Swartz was acquitted on second-degree murder charges last spring, but the jury deadlocked on manslaughter charges. In a second trial, last fall, the jury also failed to reach a verdict on manslaughter. Last month, prosecutors declined to seek a third trial.

While the aid workers seek to avoid prison time, Americans may well wonder about a system in which justice is rendered so perversely.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 01:48:38 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 29, 2019, 12:46:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 28, 2019, 10:47:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

What if the leaders of the Republican party refused to call these right wing killers ''Domestic terrorists''....oh wait a minute thats exactly what happens every time.

Completely different topic, but nice attempt at changing the subject.

Right wing extremists were mentioned in the thread? Or is it only Islamic extremists that should be condemned?

Not by me they werent.

I condemn all terrorists
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 10:48:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

She said they were "misunderstood" and "victims"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2019, 01:05:53 AM
This is what fascism is. You create an environment where people are afraid to do normal, decent things for fear they might be imprisoned, and you reward ruthless killers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/convicted-for-leaving-water-for-migrants-in-the-desert--this-is-trumps-justice/2019/01/27/9d4b3104-2013-11e9-8b59-0a28f2191131_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.456cc46a731e

Convicted for leaving water for migrants in the desert: This is Trump's justice

By Editorial Board
January 27

A FEW weeks ago, federal prosecutors in Arizona secured a conviction against four humanitarian aid workers who left water in the desert for migrants who might otherwise die of heat exposure and thirst. Separately, they dropped manslaughter charges against a U.S. Border Patrol agent who fired 16 times across the border, killing a teenage Mexican boy. The aid workers face a fine and up to six months in jail. The Border Patrol officer faces no further legal consequences.

That is a snapshot of twisted frontier justice in the age of Trump. Save a migrant's life, and you risk becoming a political prisoner. Kill a Mexican teenager, and you walk free.

The four aid workers, all women, were volunteers in service to an organization, No More Deaths, whose religious views inform its mission to prevent undocumented migrants from dying during their perilous northward trek. They drove into the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge, about 100 miles southwest of Phoenix, to leave water jugs along with some canned beans.

The women — Natalie Hoffman, Oona Holcomb, Madeline Huse and Zaachila Orozco-McCormick — made no effort to conceal their work. Confronted by a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officer, they said they believed everyone deserved access to basic survival needs. One of them, Ms. Orozco-McCormick, compared the wildlife refuge to a graveyard, such is the ubiquity of human remains there.

Since the turn of the century, more than 2,100 undocumented migrants have died in that sun-scorched region of southern Arizona, according to Humane Borders, a nonprofit group that keeps track of the numbers. Last year, according to the Pima County Medical Examiner's Office, the remains of 127 dead migrants were recovered there.

In the past, prosecutors declined to press charges against the volunteers who try to help by leaving water and canned food in the desert. But the four women, arrested in August 2017, were tried for the misdemeanor offenses of entering a refuge without a permit, abandoning personal property and, in the case of Ms. Hoffman, driving in a restricted area. U.S. Magistrate Judge Bernardo Velasco, who presided over the bench trial, said their actions ran afoul of the "national decision to maintain the Reserve in its pristine nature."

In fact, prosecutors have broad discretion in deciding whether to press such minor charges — just as they do in more consequential cases such as the manslaughter charge against Lonnie Swartz, the Border Patrol agent who killed 16-year-old José Antonio Elena Rodríguez in October 2012. According to Mr. Swartz, he opened fire on the boy, shooting 16 times in what the agent said was self-defense, through the fence that divides the city of Nogales along the Arizona-Mexico border. He said the boy had been throwing stones at him across the frontier.

Mr. Swartz was acquitted on second-degree murder charges last spring, but the jury deadlocked on manslaughter charges. In a second trial, last fall, the jury also failed to reach a verdict on manslaughter. Last month, prosecutors declined to seek a third trial.

While the aid workers seek to avoid prison time, Americans may well wonder about a system in which justice is rendered so perversely.

Eamonnca1/Sid

Aiding and abetting means breaking the law - Rightfully lock them up.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
Lock them up for leaving water out for people in a desert area where thousands have died?

How very christian!

But then again these people are not human. They're just statistics. Same as those little kids being ripped away from their mothers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
Lock them up for leaving water out for people in a desert area where thousands have died?

How very christian!

But then again these people are not human. They're just statistics. Same as those little kids being ripped away from their mothers.

Ridiculous J70. Do it the legal way and you don't have people dying in the desert or family separations. They bring it on themselves but that's someone else's fault. The victim mentality is rampant.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 01:52:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 10:48:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

She said they were "misunderstood" and "victims"?

Draw your own conclusions

Ilhan Omar's letter to Judge Davis, dated Nov. 8

Honorable Judge Davis,

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50 or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: "Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr."

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people -- it is the consequences of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, "I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive." We use this form of distributive justice for patients with chemical dependencies; treatment and societal reintegration. The most effective penance is making these men ambassadors of reform.

The restorative approach provides a long-term solution – though the self-declared Islamic State may soon suffer defeat, their radical approach to change-making will continue as it has throughout history – by criminalizing the undergirding construct rather than its predisposed victims. Therein, this ruling can set a precedent and has the potential to be a landmark case in addressing extremism.

Thank you for your careful attention,

Ilhan Omar
State Representative-Elect – MN 60B
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 02:13:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 01:52:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 10:48:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

She said they were "misunderstood" and "victims"?

Draw your own conclusions

Ilhan Omar's letter to Judge Davis, dated Nov. 8

Honorable Judge Davis,

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50 or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: "Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr."

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people -- it is the consequences of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, "I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive." We use this form of distributive justice for patients with chemical dependencies; treatment and societal reintegration. The most effective penance is making these men ambassadors of reform.

The restorative approach provides a long-term solution – though the self-declared Islamic State may soon suffer defeat, their radical approach to change-making will continue as it has throughout history – by criminalizing the undergirding construct rather than its predisposed victims. Therein, this ruling can set a precedent and has the potential to be a landmark case in addressing extremism.

Thank you for your careful attention,

Ilhan Omar
State Representative-Elect – MN 60B

I don't see any labeling of them as "misunderstood".

I see an appeal that misguided young idiots not be just discarded on the trash heap of life in prison, but given a chance to rehabilitate during a 15 year or whatever sentence. Again, unless I'm misunderstanding, these guys hadn't done anything yet beyond trying to get over there.

Its a reasonable, defensible, position, IMO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
Lock them up for leaving water out for people in a desert area where thousands have died?

How very christian!

But then again these people are not human. They're just statistics. Same as those little kids being ripped away from their mothers.

Ridiculous J70. Do it the legal way and you don't have people dying in the desert or family separations. They bring it on themselves but that's someone else's fault. The victim mentality is rampant.

It IS ridiculous that someone could be locked up for taking pity on illegal immigrants and giving them WATER so they won't die in the desert.

And the family separations ARE someone else's fault. That someone is Trump and his minions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 01:52:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 10:48:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

She said they were "misunderstood" and "victims"?

Draw your own conclusions

Ilhan Omar's letter to Judge Davis, dated Nov. 8

Honorable Judge Davis,

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50 or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: "Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr."

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people -- it is the consequences of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, "I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive." We use this form of distributive justice for patients with chemical dependencies; treatment and societal reintegration. The most effective penance is making these men ambassadors of reform.

The restorative approach provides a long-term solution – though the self-declared Islamic State may soon suffer defeat, their radical approach to change-making will continue as it has throughout history – by criminalizing the undergirding construct rather than its predisposed victims. Therein, this ruling can set a precedent and has the potential to be a landmark case in addressing extremism.

Thank you for your careful attention,

Ilhan Omar
State Representative-Elect – MN 60B

So she wants to give her own lot a "get out of jail free" card. How convenient.
So what age are you supposed to be responsible for your own actions?

More evidence of how crazy the left is.

If you want a good laugh watch reporters at the women's march last week. The level of ignorance is stunning. Ask them a question and they repeat all the MSNBC and CNN talking points exactly. Animal farm indeed.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on January 29, 2019, 02:42:15 PM
Foxy,

I know you can read, so this is willful miscomprehension.

Let it go, try and be a decent human
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 02:43:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 02:13:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 01:52:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 10:48:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

She said they were "misunderstood" and "victims"?

Draw your own conclusions

Ilhan Omar's letter to Judge Davis, dated Nov. 8

Honorable Judge Davis,

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50 or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: "Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr."

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people -- it is the consequences of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, "I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive." We use this form of distributive justice for patients with chemical dependencies; treatment and societal reintegration. The most effective penance is making these men ambassadors of reform.

The restorative approach provides a long-term solution – though the self-declared Islamic State may soon suffer defeat, their radical approach to change-making will continue as it has throughout history – by criminalizing the undergirding construct rather than its predisposed victims. Therein, this ruling can set a precedent and has the potential to be a landmark case in addressing extremism.

Thank you for your careful attention,

Ilhan Omar
State Representative-Elect – MN 60B

I don't see any labeling of them as "misunderstood".

I see an appeal that misguided young idiots not be just discarded on the trash heap of life in prison, but given a chance to rehabilitate during a 15 year or whatever sentence. Again, unless I'm misunderstanding, these guys hadn't done anything yet beyond trying to get over there.

Its a reasonable, defensible, position, IMO.

Believe what you want

its there in black and white if you want to see it

"a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
Lock them up for leaving water out for people in a desert area where thousands have died?

How very christian!

But then again these people are not human. They're just statistics. Same as those little kids being ripped away from their mothers.

Ridiculous J70. Do it the legal way and you don't have people dying in the desert or family separations. They bring it on themselves but that's someone else's fault. The victim mentality is rampant.

It IS ridiculous that someone could be locked up for taking pity on illegal immigrants and giving them WATER so they won't die in the desert.

And the family separations ARE someone else's fault. That someone is Trump and his minions.

They are breaking the law. Those crossing the desert and those helping them cross. It's called human trafficking, whatever form it takes including leaving supplies.

I'm not going into the child separation. We've done this before. The parents put them in that predicament, not Trump.

If you're being honest this isn't asylum seekers, it's economic migration. How many people can fit and maintain a healthy society or does the left actually care (apart from getting these new voters)?




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 29, 2019, 03:26:33 PM
In Trump's America, poultry workers have to wear to nappies because they aren't allowed toilet breaks.

Fighting for the people, yeah!

Or something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 03:36:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 02:43:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 02:13:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 01:52:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 10:48:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 28, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 28, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Just saw that darling of the left, Democratic Congresswoman Ilham Omar once lobbied for lenient sentences for Somali men who tried to go to join ISIS in Syria back in 2015

You do have to wonder at the people who voted her into power.

So what's your policies?
Helping ISIS.

Seems to be a growing trend on the left.

Fun fact: More Americans were killed by angry, right-wing extremists last year than by ISIS. They must be getting radicalized by a constant diet of Fox News.

Correct.......And if a "rising star" of the Republican party wrote a letter to a judge looking for a lenient sentence for these people because thy were misunderstood and victims themselves, Id be calling for them to step down also

She said they were "misunderstood" and "victims"?

Draw your own conclusions

Ilhan Omar's letter to Judge Davis, dated Nov. 8

Honorable Judge Davis,

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50 or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: "Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr."

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people -- it is the consequences of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, "I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive." We use this form of distributive justice for patients with chemical dependencies; treatment and societal reintegration. The most effective penance is making these men ambassadors of reform.

The restorative approach provides a long-term solution – though the self-declared Islamic State may soon suffer defeat, their radical approach to change-making will continue as it has throughout history – by criminalizing the undergirding construct rather than its predisposed victims. Therein, this ruling can set a precedent and has the potential to be a landmark case in addressing extremism.

Thank you for your careful attention,

Ilhan Omar
State Representative-Elect – MN 60B

I don't see any labeling of them as "misunderstood".

I see an appeal that misguided young idiots not be just discarded on the trash heap of life in prison, but given a chance to rehabilitate during a 15 year or whatever sentence. Again, unless I'm misunderstanding, these guys hadn't done anything yet beyond trying to get over there.

Its a reasonable, defensible, position, IMO.

Believe what you want

its there in black and white if you want to see it

"a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty"

I stand corrected. I missed that.

Doesn't change my opinion though. That is still a reasonable appeal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 03:42:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2019, 03:26:33 PM
In Trump's America, poultry workers have to wear to nappies because they aren't allowed toilet breaks.

Fighting for the people, yeah!

Or something.

Eamonnca1/Sid
This was happening during Barack Hussein Obama's presidency as well. What's your point?

or maybe it's more snowflake outrage ;)

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f2/40/ca/f240ca39191907aa86332a17cb34fc5d.jpg)





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
Lock them up for leaving water out for people in a desert area where thousands have died?

How very christian!

But then again these people are not human. They're just statistics. Same as those little kids being ripped away from their mothers.

Ridiculous J70. Do it the legal way and you don't have people dying in the desert or family separations. They bring it on themselves but that's someone else's fault. The victim mentality is rampant.

It IS ridiculous that someone could be locked up for taking pity on illegal immigrants and giving them WATER so they won't die in the desert.

And the family separations ARE someone else's fault. That someone is Trump and his minions.

They are breaking the law. Those crossing the desert and those helping them cross. It's called human trafficking, whatever form it takes including leaving supplies.

I'm not going into the child separation. We've done this before. The parents put them in that predicament, not Trump.

If you're being honest this isn't asylum seekers, it's economic migration. How many people can fit and maintain a healthy society or does the left actually care (apart from getting these new voters)?

Their parents brought them to the border. Trump SEPARATED them. He had no need or reason to. Other presidents didn't do it. And he subsequently STOPPED when he and his minions got caught and couldn't justify it!

As for those leaving water... those migrants are going to cross anyway. Leaving water out so they will not die is basic human decency. There is nothing stopping the CBP deploying resources to the area to pick them up. Only a twisted, sick mind who sees those people as subhuman would condone prosecuting someone leaving out water.

As for the "recruiting new voters" nonsense, someone is going to have to explain how THAT works?

1.   If it is a Democratic strategy, it must be based on some deluded, long term strategy which is completely at odds with the election-in-two-years reality of American politics. None of these people vote or are going to vote. This is not Boss Tweed's mid-19th century Manhattan.
2.   The GOP is the party that makes hay on the issue of illegal immigration, scaring their base. Trump got elected on it.
3.   There is absolutely NOTHING stopping the GOP adopting a humane policy and trying to win over some of these supposed masses of "new voters" which are apparently up for grabs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 03:42:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 29, 2019, 03:26:33 PM
In Trump's America, poultry workers have to wear to nappies because they aren't allowed toilet breaks.

Fighting for the people, yeah!

Or something.

Eamonnca1/Sid
This was happening during Barack Hussein Obama's presidency as well. What's your point?

or maybe it's more snowflake outrage ;)

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f2/40/ca/f240ca39191907aa86332a17cb34fc5d.jpg)

Yes, it happened back then too.

But which president and party sides with big business and which advocates for promulgation and strict enforcement of wage/hour and workplace safety regulations?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 04:35:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
Lock them up for leaving water out for people in a desert area where thousands have died?

How very christian!

But then again these people are not human. They're just statistics. Same as those little kids being ripped away from their mothers.

Ridiculous J70. Do it the legal way and you don't have people dying in the desert or family separations. They bring it on themselves but that's someone else's fault. The victim mentality is rampant.

It IS ridiculous that someone could be locked up for taking pity on illegal immigrants and giving them WATER so they won't die in the desert.

And the family separations ARE someone else's fault. That someone is Trump and his minions.

They are breaking the law. Those crossing the desert and those helping them cross. It's called human trafficking, whatever form it takes including leaving supplies.

I'm not going into the child separation. We've done this before. The parents put them in that predicament, not Trump.

If you're being honest this isn't asylum seekers, it's economic migration. How many people can fit and maintain a healthy society or does the left actually care (apart from getting these new voters)?

Their parents brought them to the border. Trump SEPARATED them. He had no need or reason to. Other presidents didn't do it. And he subsequently STOPPED when he and his minions got caught and couldn't justify it!

As for those leaving water... those migrants are going to cross anyway. Leaving water out so they will not die is basic human decency. There is nothing stopping the CBP deploying resources to the area to pick them up. Only a twisted, sick mind who sees those people as subhuman would condone prosecuting someone leaving out water.

As for the "recruiting new voters" nonsense, someone is going to have to explain how THAT works?

1.   If it is a Democratic strategy, it must be based on some deluded, long term strategy which is completely at odds with the election-in-two-years reality of American politics. None of these people vote or are going to vote. This is not Boss Tweed's mid-19th century Manhattan.
2.   The GOP is the party that makes hay on the issue of illegal immigration, scaring their base. Trump got elected on it.
3.   There is absolutely NOTHING stopping the GOP adopting a humane policy and trying to win over some of these supposed masses of "new voters" which are apparently up for grabs.

Weve discussed this before

Congressional representation is based on total population, not total legal population.

Electoral college representation based on number of congressmen/women

By flooding your state with illegals you are indirectly rewarded at the ballot box.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/census-questions-illegal-immigrants-give-cities-political-power/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:50:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 04:35:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
Lock them up for leaving water out for people in a desert area where thousands have died?

How very christian!

But then again these people are not human. They're just statistics. Same as those little kids being ripped away from their mothers.

Ridiculous J70. Do it the legal way and you don't have people dying in the desert or family separations. They bring it on themselves but that's someone else's fault. The victim mentality is rampant.

It IS ridiculous that someone could be locked up for taking pity on illegal immigrants and giving them WATER so they won't die in the desert.

And the family separations ARE someone else's fault. That someone is Trump and his minions.

They are breaking the law. Those crossing the desert and those helping them cross. It's called human trafficking, whatever form it takes including leaving supplies.

I'm not going into the child separation. We've done this before. The parents put them in that predicament, not Trump.

If you're being honest this isn't asylum seekers, it's economic migration. How many people can fit and maintain a healthy society or does the left actually care (apart from getting these new voters)?

Their parents brought them to the border. Trump SEPARATED them. He had no need or reason to. Other presidents didn't do it. And he subsequently STOPPED when he and his minions got caught and couldn't justify it!

As for those leaving water... those migrants are going to cross anyway. Leaving water out so they will not die is basic human decency. There is nothing stopping the CBP deploying resources to the area to pick them up. Only a twisted, sick mind who sees those people as subhuman would condone prosecuting someone leaving out water.

As for the "recruiting new voters" nonsense, someone is going to have to explain how THAT works?

1.   If it is a Democratic strategy, it must be based on some deluded, long term strategy which is completely at odds with the election-in-two-years reality of American politics. None of these people vote or are going to vote. This is not Boss Tweed's mid-19th century Manhattan.
2.   The GOP is the party that makes hay on the issue of illegal immigration, scaring their base. Trump got elected on it.
3.   There is absolutely NOTHING stopping the GOP adopting a humane policy and trying to win over some of these supposed masses of "new voters" which are apparently up for grabs.

Weve discussed this before

Congressional representation is based on total population, not total legal population.

Electoral college representation based on number of congressmen/women

By flooding your state with illegals you are indirectly rewarded at the ballot box.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/census-questions-illegal-immigrants-give-cities-political-power/

So its NOT new voters?

I've posted this before. http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

Three of the top six states by per capita illegal immigrants voted for Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 05:12:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

The immigrants in question mostly vote for one party blindly (democrats!), hence the abandonment from the likes of Schumer, Pelosi & co of previous viewpoints to accommodate instead of  securing the border and building some form of protection as they promised.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:50:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 04:35:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 29, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
Lock them up for leaving water out for people in a desert area where thousands have died?

How very christian!

But then again these people are not human. They're just statistics. Same as those little kids being ripped away from their mothers.

Ridiculous J70. Do it the legal way and you don't have people dying in the desert or family separations. They bring it on themselves but that's someone else's fault. The victim mentality is rampant.

It IS ridiculous that someone could be locked up for taking pity on illegal immigrants and giving them WATER so they won't die in the desert.

And the family separations ARE someone else's fault. That someone is Trump and his minions.

They are breaking the law. Those crossing the desert and those helping them cross. It's called human trafficking, whatever form it takes including leaving supplies.

I'm not going into the child separation. We've done this before. The parents put them in that predicament, not Trump.

If you're being honest this isn't asylum seekers, it's economic migration. How many people can fit and maintain a healthy society or does the left actually care (apart from getting these new voters)?

Their parents brought them to the border. Trump SEPARATED them. He had no need or reason to. Other presidents didn't do it. And he subsequently STOPPED when he and his minions got caught and couldn't justify it!

As for those leaving water... those migrants are going to cross anyway. Leaving water out so they will not die is basic human decency. There is nothing stopping the CBP deploying resources to the area to pick them up. Only a twisted, sick mind who sees those people as subhuman would condone prosecuting someone leaving out water.

As for the "recruiting new voters" nonsense, someone is going to have to explain how THAT works?

1.   If it is a Democratic strategy, it must be based on some deluded, long term strategy which is completely at odds with the election-in-two-years reality of American politics. None of these people vote or are going to vote. This is not Boss Tweed's mid-19th century Manhattan.
2.   The GOP is the party that makes hay on the issue of illegal immigration, scaring their base. Trump got elected on it.
3.   There is absolutely NOTHING stopping the GOP adopting a humane policy and trying to win over some of these supposed masses of "new voters" which are apparently up for grabs.

Weve discussed this before

Congressional representation is based on total population, not total legal population.

Electoral college representation based on number of congressmen/women

By flooding your state with illegals you are indirectly rewarded at the ballot box.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/census-questions-illegal-immigrants-give-cities-political-power/

So its NOT new voters?

I've posted this before. http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/)

Three of the top six states by per capita illegal immigrants voted for Trump.

Dolph is claiming direct voters, Im claiming indirect increase in overall representation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 29, 2019, 05:18:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base

Ah yes. Those famously generous American benefits. 23 days of paid vacation, free housing, enough dole money to live on when you're unemployed, 6 months family leave, free healthcare....

Oh wait. Wrong country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base

And breaking up families and forcing people to live in fear in the shadows, afraid to report crime, doesn't sit well with the Democratic base.

Doesn't mean it is part of some greater, ulterior motive to swell the voting ranks.

I don't feel angered when Trump tears kids away from their parents because I think "there goes another potential Democratic voter down the drain"; I feel angry because I'm a parent who can put myself in the shoes of those parents and imagine the utter terror my own young kids would experience if it was them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base

And breaking up families and forcing people to live in fear in the shadows, afraid to report crime, doesn't sit well with the Democratic base.

Doesn't mean it is part of some greater, ulterior motive to swell the voting ranks.

I don't feel angered when Trump tears kids away from their parents because I think "there goes another potential Democratic voter down the drain"; I feel angry because I'm a parent who can put myself in the shoes of those parents and imagine the utter terror my own young kids would experience if it was them.

As I've said 1000000 times, let's absorb and take care of the illegals already here before encouraging more to come (which is exactly what the Democrats are doing)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 29, 2019, 05:56:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base

And breaking up families and forcing people to live in fear in the shadows, afraid to report crime, doesn't sit well with the Democratic base.

Doesn't mean it is part of some greater, ulterior motive to swell the voting ranks.

I don't feel angered when Trump tears kids away from their parents because I think "there goes another potential Democratic voter down the drain"; I feel angry because I'm a parent who can put myself in the shoes of those parents and imagine the utter terror my own young kids would experience if it was them.

Or as Whitey and his deranged FoxKKK sock puppet cheerleader would put it, that makes you a "virtue-signaling SJW."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base

And breaking up families and forcing people to live in fear in the shadows, afraid to report crime, doesn't sit well with the Democratic base.

Doesn't mean it is part of some greater, ulterior motive to swell the voting ranks.

I don't feel angered when Trump tears kids away from their parents because I think "there goes another potential Democratic voter down the drain"; I feel angry because I'm a parent who can put myself in the shoes of those parents and imagine the utter terror my own young kids would experience if it was them.

As I've said 1000000 times, let's absorb and take care of the illegals already here before encouraging more to come (which is exactly what the Democrats are doing)

Unfortunately, many of your fellow travelers want no part of that.

Which leaves the illegals already here in the shadows.

Which means we need policies like sanctuary cities (within reason!) to draw them out.

Which, in your eyes, encourages more to come.

I'd love to see some grand immigration bargain too. But the last two attempts were torpedoed by the Fox News/Limbaugh crowd.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 06:08:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base

And breaking up families and forcing people to live in fear in the shadows, afraid to report crime, doesn't sit well with the Democratic base.

Doesn't mean it is part of some greater, ulterior motive to swell the voting ranks.

I don't feel angered when Trump tears kids away from their parents because I think "there goes another potential Democratic voter down the drain"; I feel angry because I'm a parent who can put myself in the shoes of those parents and imagine the utter terror my own young kids would experience if it was them.

As I've said 1000000 times, let's absorb and take care of the illegals already here before encouraging more to come (which is exactly what the Democrats are doing)

Unfortunately, many of your fellow travelers want no part of that.

Which leaves the illegals already here in the shadows.

Which means we need policies like sanctuary cities (within reason!) to draw them out.

Which, in your eyes, encourages more to come.

I'd love to see some grand immigration bargain too. But the last two attempts were torpedoed by the Fox News/Limbaugh crowd.

Do you think criminal aliens should be handed over to ICE because from my vantage point a lot of democrats dont?  ( Im Not talking about petty stuff.....serious stuff including violence, drugs, dui).

I know someone who goes out on ICE raids and there some very, very bad people getting rounded up and deported with little or no help from local law enforcement whose hands are tied by politicians

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-58-new-england-enforcement-action
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 06:29:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 06:08:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base

And breaking up families and forcing people to live in fear in the shadows, afraid to report crime, doesn't sit well with the Democratic base.

Doesn't mean it is part of some greater, ulterior motive to swell the voting ranks.

I don't feel angered when Trump tears kids away from their parents because I think "there goes another potential Democratic voter down the drain"; I feel angry because I'm a parent who can put myself in the shoes of those parents and imagine the utter terror my own young kids would experience if it was them.

As I've said 1000000 times, let's absorb and take care of the illegals already here before encouraging more to come (which is exactly what the Democrats are doing)

Unfortunately, many of your fellow travelers want no part of that.

Which leaves the illegals already here in the shadows.

Which means we need policies like sanctuary cities (within reason!) to draw them out.

Which, in your eyes, encourages more to come.

I'd love to see some grand immigration bargain too. But the last two attempts were torpedoed by the Fox News/Limbaugh crowd.

Do you think criminal aliens should be handed over to ICE because from my vantage point a lot of democrats dont?  ( Im Not talking about petty stuff.....serious stuff including violence, drugs, dui).

I know someone who goes out on ICE raids and there some very, very bad people getting rounded up and deported with little or no help from local law enforcement whose hands are tied by politicians

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-58-new-england-enforcement-action

Absolutely (after they serve their sentence).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 06:29:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 06:08:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base

And breaking up families and forcing people to live in fear in the shadows, afraid to report crime, doesn't sit well with the Democratic base.

Doesn't mean it is part of some greater, ulterior motive to swell the voting ranks.

I don't feel angered when Trump tears kids away from their parents because I think "there goes another potential Democratic voter down the drain"; I feel angry because I'm a parent who can put myself in the shoes of those parents and imagine the utter terror my own young kids would experience if it was them.

As I've said 1000000 times, let's absorb and take care of the illegals already here before encouraging more to come (which is exactly what the Democrats are doing)

Unfortunately, many of your fellow travelers want no part of that.

Which leaves the illegals already here in the shadows.

Which means we need policies like sanctuary cities (within reason!) to draw them out.

Which, in your eyes, encourages more to come.

I'd love to see some grand immigration bargain too. But the last two attempts were torpedoed by the Fox News/Limbaugh crowd.

Do you think criminal aliens should be handed over to ICE because from my vantage point a lot of democrats dont?  ( Im Not talking about petty stuff.....serious stuff including violence, drugs, dui).

I know someone who goes out on ICE raids and there some very, very bad people getting rounded up and deported with little or no help from local law enforcement whose hands are tied by politicians

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-58-new-england-enforcement-action

Absolutely (after they serve their sentence).

Would you give bail to illegals accused (but not yet convicted/tried) of serious offences?

https://apnews.com/7813131138674366a997d7deea91bf57
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 29, 2019, 07:43:23 PM
If u are in the country illegally and commit a crime no matter what age u are u should be deported
How could that be a decisive issue
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 06:29:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 06:08:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 29, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
And again, I ask, if it is so easy to attract voters AND increase your congressional representation by advocating for immigrants, what is stopping the GOP doing the same?

Inviting and encouraging people in to come in and go on benefits (which the Democrats are doing) wouldn't sit well with the Republican base

And breaking up families and forcing people to live in fear in the shadows, afraid to report crime, doesn't sit well with the Democratic base.

Doesn't mean it is part of some greater, ulterior motive to swell the voting ranks.

I don't feel angered when Trump tears kids away from their parents because I think "there goes another potential Democratic voter down the drain"; I feel angry because I'm a parent who can put myself in the shoes of those parents and imagine the utter terror my own young kids would experience if it was them.

As I've said 1000000 times, let's absorb and take care of the illegals already here before encouraging more to come (which is exactly what the Democrats are doing)

Unfortunately, many of your fellow travelers want no part of that.

Which leaves the illegals already here in the shadows.

Which means we need policies like sanctuary cities (within reason!) to draw them out.

Which, in your eyes, encourages more to come.

I'd love to see some grand immigration bargain too. But the last two attempts were torpedoed by the Fox News/Limbaugh crowd.

Do you think criminal aliens should be handed over to ICE because from my vantage point a lot of democrats dont?  ( Im Not talking about petty stuff.....serious stuff including violence, drugs, dui).

I know someone who goes out on ICE raids and there some very, very bad people getting rounded up and deported with little or no help from local law enforcement whose hands are tied by politicians

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-58-new-england-enforcement-action

Absolutely (after they serve their sentence).

Would you give bail to illegals accused (but not yet convicted/tried) of serious offences?

https://apnews.com/7813131138674366a997d7deea91bf57

No
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2019, 08:02:50 PM
Well they're getting bail up here in MA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2019, 08:15:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2019, 08:02:50 PM
Well they're getting bail up here in MA

It would want to be pretty high to ensure they show up again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 30, 2019, 01:32:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

haha...I think one would refer to it as a lazy throw away comment.

I think I know what he meant, but he didnt articulate it correctly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:37:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2019, 01:32:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

haha...I think one would refer to it as a lazy throw away comment.

I think I know what he meant, but he didnt articulate it correctly.

I didn't see the piece. I looked it up after Foxy's "comment" here.

What was he trying to say, in your opinion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 30, 2019, 02:07:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:37:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2019, 01:32:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

haha...I think one would refer to it as a lazy throw away comment.

I think I know what he meant, but he didnt articulate it correctly.

I didn't see the piece. I looked it up after Foxy's "comment" here.

What was he trying to say, in your opinion?

Its actually hard to articulate what I think he tried to say

I think it is a fair observation that caucasian Americans view Hispanic Americans as not quite as American as them. What can we do as a nation to remove this perception?  What can the Hispanic community do to ensure they have their rightful place at the table....a place theyve earned

When we look at Chinese Americans and Indian Americans, within one generation of arriving they seem to be fully accepted and assimilated whereas that doesnt seem to be the case for hispanics

Assimilate is/was the wrong word to use.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

The fact that you targeted the children of the Hispanic illegal immigrants rather than the current wave of illegal immigrants themselves would lead you to also think that they can't be bothered to try.

What i'm getting at is the current trend of attacking US norms, like speaking English, for which Tom Brokaw got hauled over the coals for speaking up for. This will be a # in the near future (i.e English is a hate language etc.).


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 30, 2019, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

The fact that you targeted the children of the Hispanic illegal immigrants rather than the current wave of illegal immigrants themselves would lead you to also think that they can't be bothered to try.

What i'm getting at is the current trend of attacking US norms, like speaking English, for which Tom Brokaw got hauled over the coals for speaking up for. This will be a # in the near future (i.e English is a hate language etc.).

1.   I didn't "target" children; Brokaw's comment specifically addressed teaching children English. Which is a ridiculous criticism of a problem that doesn't exist (if it does, go ahead and show us where). These kids go to public school. They learn to speak English. English as a second language programs are all over the place to help them in the schools. Not to mention, what kind of parent WOULDN'T want their kids, growing up in the US, to speak English? They can still speak their native language at home. I live in Queens, about the most diverse county in the US. At my son's school, I see kids of all races speaking perfect English with American accents, yet talking to their parents or grandparents who pick them up in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Spanish etc. etc.

2.   Speaking English in America is "under attack"? Where? And by whom? I live here. I've never heard anything remotely like this. Next piece of fever dream paranoia you're going to throw at us is that "English is hate speech" is part of the Democratic Party platform.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 30, 2019, 03:58:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

The fact that you targeted the children of the Hispanic illegal immigrants rather than the current wave of illegal immigrants themselves would lead you to also think that they can't be bothered to try.

What i'm getting at is the current trend of attacking US norms, like speaking English, for which Tom Brokaw got hauled over the coals for speaking up for. This will be a # in the near future (i.e English is a hate language etc.).

1.   I didn't "target" children; Brokaw's comment specifically addressed teaching children English. Which is a ridiculous criticism of a problem that doesn't exist (if it does, go ahead and show us where). These kids go to public school. They learn to speak English. English as a second language programs are all over the place to help them in the schools. Not to mention, what kind of parent WOULDN'T want their kids, growing up in the US, to speak English? They can still speak their native language at home. I live in Queens, about the most diverse county in the US. At my son's school, I see kids of all races speaking perfect English with American accents, yet talking to their parents or grandparents who pick them up in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Spanish etc. etc.

2.   Speaking English in America is "under attack"? Where? And by whom? I live here. I've never heard anything remotely like this. Next piece of fever dream paranoia you're going to throw at us is that "English is hate speech" is part of the Democratic Party platform.
if the kids parents are spainish speaking only and don't speak English at home how could they speak English when they enter the public school system? And in a place like California how many kids per class enter schools like this ? A lot I'm sure and it can't be a good situation and a reason California public schools are some of the worst in America even though we are paying huge taxes here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 30, 2019, 04:07:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 30, 2019, 03:58:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

The fact that you targeted the children of the Hispanic illegal immigrants rather than the current wave of illegal immigrants themselves would lead you to also think that they can't be bothered to try.

What i'm getting at is the current trend of attacking US norms, like speaking English, for which Tom Brokaw got hauled over the coals for speaking up for. This will be a # in the near future (i.e English is a hate language etc.).

1.   I didn't "target" children; Brokaw's comment specifically addressed teaching children English. Which is a ridiculous criticism of a problem that doesn't exist (if it does, go ahead and show us where). These kids go to public school. They learn to speak English. English as a second language programs are all over the place to help them in the schools. Not to mention, what kind of parent WOULDN'T want their kids, growing up in the US, to speak English? They can still speak their native language at home. I live in Queens, about the most diverse county in the US. At my son's school, I see kids of all races speaking perfect English with American accents, yet talking to their parents or grandparents who pick them up in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Spanish etc. etc.

2.   Speaking English in America is "under attack"? Where? And by whom? I live here. I've never heard anything remotely like this. Next piece of fever dream paranoia you're going to throw at us is that "English is hate speech" is part of the Democratic Party platform.
if the kids parents are spainish speaking only and don't speak English at home how could they speak English when they enter the public school system? And in a place like California how many kids per class enter schools like this ? A lot I'm sure and it can't be a good situation and a reason California public schools are some of the worst in America even though we are paying huge taxes here

That's why, as I said, schools have ESL programmes.

If CA needs to improve on how they're managed, that's an issue for them.

But it doesn't mean that Hispanic immigrants are not working hard enough to assimilate or make sure their kids grow up speaking English.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 30, 2019, 05:22:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 04:07:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 30, 2019, 03:58:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

The fact that you targeted the children of the Hispanic illegal immigrants rather than the current wave of illegal immigrants themselves would lead you to also think that they can't be bothered to try.

What i'm getting at is the current trend of attacking US norms, like speaking English, for which Tom Brokaw got hauled over the coals for speaking up for. This will be a # in the near future (i.e English is a hate language etc.).

1.   I didn't "target" children; Brokaw's comment specifically addressed teaching children English. Which is a ridiculous criticism of a problem that doesn't exist (if it does, go ahead and show us where). These kids go to public school. They learn to speak English. English as a second language programs are all over the place to help them in the schools. Not to mention, what kind of parent WOULDN'T want their kids, growing up in the US, to speak English? They can still speak their native language at home. I live in Queens, about the most diverse county in the US. At my son's school, I see kids of all races speaking perfect English with American accents, yet talking to their parents or grandparents who pick them up in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Spanish etc. etc.

2.   Speaking English in America is "under attack"? Where? And by whom? I live here. I've never heard anything remotely like this. Next piece of fever dream paranoia you're going to throw at us is that "English is hate speech" is part of the Democratic Party platform.
if the kids parents are spainish speaking only and don't speak English at home how could they speak English when they enter the public school system? And in a place like California how many kids per class enter schools like this ? A lot I'm sure and it can't be a good situation and a reason California public schools are some of the worst in America even though we are paying huge taxes here

That's why, as I said, schools have ESL programmes.

If CA needs to improve on how they're managed, that's an issue for them.

But it doesn't mean that Hispanic immigrants are not working hard enough to assimilate or make sure their kids grow up speaking English.
the elephant in the room is one million kids are going to public schools who have parents who are here illegally there's millions of people in California illegally who do not contribute tax dollars to government run or state run bodies , something has to be done to get these people to contribute to the resources that they use everyday , and if they are too poor to contribute what the hell do they want to be here for in the first place .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 30, 2019, 05:22:21 PM
the elephant in the room is one million kids are going to public schools who have parents who are here illegally there's millions of people in California illegally who do not contribute tax dollars to government run or state run bodies , something has to be done to get these people to contribute to the resources that they use everyday , and if they are too poor to contribute what the hell do they want to be here for in the first place .

False. They pay payroll tax plus the same indirect taxes as the rest of us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 05:29:28 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Yes. Absolutely.

In fact I would go as far as to say that your very existence is a hate crime, you degenerate conservative troll.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 05:32:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2019, 02:07:19 PM


Its actually hard to articulate what I think he tried to say

I think it is a fair observation that caucasian Americans view Hispanic Americans as not quite as American as them.

Sounds like every other wave of immigration that ever entered the US. What you're saying now was once said about Germans, Italians, Irish, just about everyone.

Quote
What can we do as a nation to remove this perception? 
Stop watching Fox News.

QuoteWhat can the Hispanic community do to ensure they have their rightful place at the table....a place theyve earned

Vote.

QuoteWhen we look at Chinese Americans and Indian Americans, within one generation of arriving they seem to be fully accepted and assimilated whereas that doesnt seem to be the case for hispanics

Assimilate is/was the wrong word to use.

Citation needed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 30, 2019, 05:40:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 30, 2019, 05:22:21 PM
the elephant in the room is one million kids are going to public schools who have parents who are here illegally there's millions of people in California illegally who do not contribute tax dollars to government run or state run bodies , something has to be done to get these people to contribute to the resources that they use everyday , and if they are too poor to contribute what the hell do they want to be here for in the first place .

False. They pay payroll tax plus the same indirect taxes as the rest of us.
how many guys picking fruit or working construction are on payroll?
They pay sales tax like everyone else
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 30, 2019, 06:15:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 05:32:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2019, 02:07:19 PM


Its actually hard to articulate what I think he tried to say

I think it is a fair observation that caucasian Americans view Hispanic Americans as not quite as American as them.

Sounds like every other wave of immigration that ever entered the US. What you're saying now was once said about Germans, Italians, Irish, just about everyone.

Quote
What can we do as a nation to remove this perception? 
Stop watching Fox News.

QuoteWhat can the Hispanic community do to ensure they have their rightful place at the table....a place theyve earned

Vote.

QuoteWhen we look at Chinese Americans and Indian Americans, within one generation of arriving they seem to be fully accepted and assimilated whereas that doesnt seem to be the case for hispanics

Assimilate is/was the wrong word to use.

Citation needed.

Well Tom Brokaw doesnt think so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

The fact that you targeted the children of the Hispanic illegal immigrants rather than the current wave of illegal immigrants themselves would lead you to also think that they can't be bothered to try.

What i'm getting at is the current trend of attacking US norms, like speaking English, for which Tom Brokaw got hauled over the coals for speaking up for. This will be a # in the near future (i.e English is a hate language etc.).

1.   I didn't "target" children; Brokaw's comment specifically addressed teaching children English. Which is a ridiculous criticism of a problem that doesn't exist (if it does, go ahead and show us where). These kids go to public school. They learn to speak English. English as a second language programs are all over the place to help them in the schools. Not to mention, what kind of parent WOULDN'T want their kids, growing up in the US, to speak English? They can still speak their native language at home. I live in Queens, about the most diverse county in the US. At my son's school, I see kids of all races speaking perfect English with American accents, yet talking to their parents or grandparents who pick them up in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Spanish etc. etc.

2.   Speaking English in America is "under attack"? Where? And by whom? I live here. I've never heard anything remotely like this. Next piece of fever dream paranoia you're going to throw at us is that "English is hate speech" is part of the Democratic Party platform.

The only reason main stream media lost their minds about Tom Brokaw's comment is because he highlighted yet another issue with the left's big lie about integration and unity.
Judging by the previous position shifts of the democrats we'll all be singing Los Lobos songs in the next 10 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 30, 2019, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 30, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
I see the left quickly put the knife to the liberal reporter Tom Brokaw for saying that Hispanics should learn English in order to assimilate in the USA. For not regurgitating the democrat sound bites he got called horrible names then was forced to come out like a scolded child and apologise for his crime.


So very soon speaking English will be a hate crime? It's hard to know what the liberal police will target next.

Is there evidence that Hispanics are not "working hard" at assimilation or not having their children learn English? Are they doing less than previous waves of immigrants from Germany or Ireland or Italy or Eastern Europe or Puerto Rico or DR?

The fact that you targeted the children of the Hispanic illegal immigrants rather than the current wave of illegal immigrants themselves would lead you to also think that they can't be bothered to try.

What i'm getting at is the current trend of attacking US norms, like speaking English, for which Tom Brokaw got hauled over the coals for speaking up for. This will be a # in the near future (i.e English is a hate language etc.).

1.   I didn't "target" children; Brokaw's comment specifically addressed teaching children English. Which is a ridiculous criticism of a problem that doesn't exist (if it does, go ahead and show us where). These kids go to public school. They learn to speak English. English as a second language programs are all over the place to help them in the schools. Not to mention, what kind of parent WOULDN'T want their kids, growing up in the US, to speak English? They can still speak their native language at home. I live in Queens, about the most diverse county in the US. At my son's school, I see kids of all races speaking perfect English with American accents, yet talking to their parents or grandparents who pick them up in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Spanish etc. etc.

2.   Speaking English in America is "under attack"? Where? And by whom? I live here. I've never heard anything remotely like this. Next piece of fever dream paranoia you're going to throw at us is that "English is hate speech" is part of the Democratic Party platform.

The only reason main stream media lost their minds about Tom Brokaw's comment is because he highlighted yet another issue with the left's big lie about integration and unity.
Judging by the previous position shifts of the democrats we'll all be singing Los Lobos songs in the next 10 years.

What would that "lie" be?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 06:34:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 05:32:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2019, 02:07:19 PM


Its actually hard to articulate what I think he tried to say

I think it is a fair observation that caucasian Americans view Hispanic Americans as not quite as American as them.

Sounds like every other wave of immigration that ever entered the US. What you're saying now was once said about Germans, Italians, Irish, just about everyone.

Quote
What can we do as a nation to remove this perception? 
Stop watching Fox News.

QuoteWhat can the Hispanic community do to ensure they have their rightful place at the table....a place theyve earned

Vote.

QuoteWhen we look at Chinese Americans and Indian Americans, within one generation of arriving they seem to be fully accepted and assimilated whereas that doesnt seem to be the case for hispanics

Assimilate is/was the wrong word to use.

Citation needed.

With fake IDs provided by the democrats.

By the way - the irish and Italians etc didn't travel to the US for welfare handouts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 07:36:03 PM
Quote

The most recent IRS data, from 2015, shows that the agency received 4.4 million income tax returns from workers who don't have Social Security numbers, which includes a large number of undocumented immigrants. That year, they paid $23.6 billion in income taxes.

...

The 36-year-old woman from El Salvador is undocumented, and she told me that she made up the Social Security number on the W-2 form because she doesn't have one. Her employer never asked for identification to verify it, she says. Instead, she has an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), created by the IRS in 1996 so people who aren't allowed to work in the United States could still file taxes on any income they earned. (The IRS does not share ITIN information with immigration authorities.)

...

The IRS can withhold taxes from those hired with fake Social Security numbers, but workers who get paid in cash could simply choose not to report it, unless they voluntarily file a return with an ITIN number.

Still, all undocumented workers fund public schools and local government services by paying sales and property taxes like everyone else. The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy estimates that they pay about $11.7 billion a year in state and local taxes.

Source (https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229018/undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 07:38:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 06:34:33 PM
With fake IDs provided by the democrats.

By the way - the irish and Italians etc didn't travel to the US for welfare handouts.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/hyMFaxhuQkZTq/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 30, 2019, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 07:36:03 PM
Quote

The most recent IRS data, from 2015, shows that the agency received 4.4 million income tax returns from workers who don't have Social Security numbers, which includes a large number of undocumented immigrants. That year, they paid $23.6 billion in income taxes.

...

The 36-year-old woman from El Salvador is undocumented, and she told me that she made up the Social Security number on the W-2 form because she doesn't have one. Her employer never asked for identification to verify it, she says. Instead, she has an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), created by the IRS in 1996 so people who aren't allowed to work in the United States could still file taxes on any income they earned. (The IRS does not share ITIN information with immigration authorities.)

...

The IRS can withhold taxes from those hired with fake Social Security numbers, but workers who get paid in cash could simply choose not to report it, unless they voluntarily file a return with an ITIN number.

Still, all undocumented workers fund public schools and local government services by paying sales and property taxes like everyone else. The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy estimates that they pay about $11.7 billion a year in state and local taxes.

Source (https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229018/undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes)
dont think anyone getting cash is declaring it and how would u pay property tax unless u owned the property which is pretty hard when u don't have a reall ssn , u would probably be more inclined to pay rent in cash also which landlord would not declare either a double whammy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 30, 2019, 11:52:31 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 30, 2019, 06:34:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 30, 2019, 05:32:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2019, 02:07:19 PM


Its actually hard to articulate what I think he tried to say

I think it is a fair observation that caucasian Americans view Hispanic Americans as not quite as American as them.

Sounds like every other wave of immigration that ever entered the US. What you're saying now was once said about Germans, Italians, Irish, just about everyone.

Quote
What can we do as a nation to remove this perception? 
Stop watching Fox News.

QuoteWhat can the Hispanic community do to ensure they have their rightful place at the table....a place theyve earned

Vote.

QuoteWhen we look at Chinese Americans and Indian Americans, within one generation of arriving they seem to be fully accepted and assimilated whereas that doesnt seem to be the case for hispanics

Assimilate is/was the wrong word to use.

Citation needed.

With fake IDs provided by the democrats.

By the way - the irish and Italians etc didn't travel to the US for welfare handouts.

Actually hes right on the money

https://newbostonpost.com/2017/08/03/how-many-illegal-immigrants-are-getting-fake-ids-that-are-real-massachusetts-rmv-case-is-disturbing/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 12:48:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2019, 11:52:31 PM

Actually hes right on the money

https://newbostonpost.com/2017/08/03/how-many-illegal-immigrants-are-getting-fake-ids-that-are-real-massachusetts-rmv-case-is-disturbing/

"New Boston Post. The hub of conservative thought."

"Conservative thought." Now there's an oxymoron if ever there was.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2019, 01:05:09 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 12:48:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 30, 2019, 11:52:31 PM

Actually hes right on the money

https://newbostonpost.com/2017/08/03/how-many-illegal-immigrants-are-getting-fake-ids-that-are-real-massachusetts-rmv-case-is-disturbing/

"New Boston Post. The hub of conservative thought."

"Conservative thought." Now there's an oxymoron if ever there was.

Unsurprisingly , it got very little to no coverage in the leftist local press, but the Globe did cover another such incident (thats behind a paywall)

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/02/13/former-gang-affiliate-who-worked-rmv-sentenced-for-role-fake-license-scheme/c1UstUeeyuIxTKMoQQzCNL/story.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 05:34:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2019, 01:05:09 AM
Unsurprisingly , it got very little to no coverage in the leftist local press,

Neither do chemtrails.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 31, 2019, 11:25:45 AM
The democrat "pro choice" crew are now advocating for killing babies up to the moment of birth.

Is there actually an end to their lunacy?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/virginia-democratic-governor-touches-abortion-uproar-n964896
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 31, 2019, 11:34:48 AM
Speaking of lunacy

The Womens March 2019 is a goldmine of laugh out loud stupidity.

It is basically a mental hospital going for a walk.

Here's one sample of it
https://vloggest.com/watch/womens-march-2019-with-will-witt-1076698234/

These videos are possibly the funniest thing you will watch this year - especially since the left have killed off the art of comedy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 04:57:29 PM
Conservatives only think comedy is dead because they have zero sense of humour. You only had to watch Donnie's face when Obama gave him a verbal hiding at the White House Correspondents' Dinner a few years back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 05:03:47 PM
Meanwhile, while the tangerine twerp keeps slabbering about a non-existent invasion of dangerous people coming from the south, the real threat to Americans doesn't seem to be getting a whole lot of traction in the right wing press, which is a shame because we all know that conservative consumers just lap up that fear-based terror reporting. If only they were aware of the real threat, the threat that appears in a mirror:

QuoteAll of the extremist killings in the US in 2018 had links to right-wing extremism, according to new report


  • A new report shows all the extremist killings in 2018 had links to right-wing extremism.
  • The report's findings are consistent with other fairly recent studies on extremism in the US, which have shown right-wing extremism and violence are on the rise.
  • There were at least 50 extremist-related killings in 2018, according to the report, making it the fourth-deadliest year on record for domestic extremist-related killings since 1970.

Full story (https://www.businessinsider.com/extremist-killings-links-right-wing-extremism-report-2019-1?fbclid=IwAR0U1_PZXb8IR6rzrfw-zzBmaPNWNO4beVqa-rkPMIKtFFUlK1kKEmeKbVA)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 05:08:19 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50948234_2219134348125471_8210406267835908096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=ffb897d27c07790f4ea6499d049079b4&oe=5CB57185)

Meet Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas - The new faces of American terror. The other day they shot 4 police officers in Houston, Texas. Conservatives covered it all day long while they assumed it was somebody Black who shot the cops. Today, they are silent. Imagine for a moment had the shooters been undocumented immigrants or Muslims or ANYTHING other than white. Imagine the outrage. Imagine the new policies they would demand we all agree to. But now that it's clear that it was a white couple - crickets.

"Build that wall my a$$," the enemy is within, and it's angry white conservatives.

I await the usual outrage of the "all lives matter" and "blue lives matter" crowd with great interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2019, 05:24:44 PM
Eamonn I hope when you go out at night you don't encounter any MAGA yelling, noose yielding, bleach carrying, homophobic, immune to the cold, Empire watching, rascist Trump supporters like that poor fella out in Chicago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 31, 2019, 05:34:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 04:57:29 PM
Conservatives only think comedy is dead because they have zero sense of humour. You only had to watch Donnie's face when Obama gave him a verbal hiding at the White House Correspondents' Dinner a few years back.

LOL!!! You're such a snowflake.

Trust you to bring up Obama as "funny". The only thing funny about Obama was his birthcert (which hopefully President Trump will reveal as a going away present in 2024!)

Democrat supporters have basically killed Comedy. Steve Carell admitted that they couldn't have made The Office in the current climate. Any small joke remotely un-pc could trigger outrage at any time and call for campaigns to ruin their career.

lest I forget.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/w0BsDfi65BE/maxresdefault.jpg)

That was funny - at Obama's expense ;)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 05:53:29 PM
That's nice. Any chance of you two condemning those police killers in Houston?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 06:10:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 31, 2019, 05:34:54 PM
The only thing funny about Obama was his birthcert (which hopefully President Trump will reveal as a going away present in 2024!)

I'll save you the time, and for added fun I'll add birther annotations so you can pass it around to your Fox News-watching friends (assuming you have any friends) in the belief that this is serious. Of course we all know that you're a conservative and won't get the joke, but whatever...

(https://front.moveon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Obama-Birther-Certificate-BIG.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on January 31, 2019, 06:30:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 06:10:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 31, 2019, 05:34:54 PM
The only thing funny about Obama was his birthcert (which hopefully President Trump will reveal as a going away present in 2024!)

I'll save you the time, and for added fun I'll add birther annotations so you can pass it around to your Fox News-watching friends (assuming you have any friends) in the belief that this is serious. Of course we all know that you're a conservative and won't get the joke, but whatever...


I bet he's getting a little nervous that he could be exposed at any time.

I could tell you a few jokes but you wouldn't like them very much.

aw, what the hell. Here you go pal! Enjoy!

(https://i.imgflip.com/2iwajm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 08:34:58 PM
I see you and I raise you.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/415/388/6d0.jpg)

Still nothing to say about the cop killings. I guess "blue lives matter" only when it's black people doing the shooting, right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2019, 08:38:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 08:34:58 PM
I see you and I raise you.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/415/388/6d0.jpg)

Still nothing to say about the cop killings. I guess "blue lives matter" only when it's black people doing the shooting, right?

Eamonn....he did what he needed to

At that point his nomination was done and he pulled off a master stroke to take it back from the brink

The only ones crying now are the Democrats as they have 30-40 years of his rulings to look forward to
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2019, 09:00:02 PM
https://deadline.com/2019/01/jussie-smollett-attack-family-statement-domestic-terrorism-empire-chicago-1202546846/amp/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true


Oh Jaysus.....more domestic terrorism!! God help us....well all be murdrred in our beds
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 11:12:20 PM
Yes, quite.

QuoteTerrorism is surging in the US, fueled by right-wing ideologies

The country is seeing a surge in terrorism. There were only six attacks in the US a decade ago, but 65 in 2017. The number of fatalities is also increasing.

Most attacks in 2017 were thought to be motivated by right-leaning ideologies, a Quartz analysis of data from the Global Terrorism Database shows. Out of 65 incidents, 37 were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations.

Full story (https://qz.com/1355874/terrorism-is-surging-in-the-us-fueled-by-right-wing-extremists/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 11:20:22 PM
And of course let's not kid ourselves into thinking that right wing terrorism is anything new. If Timothy McVeigh were alive today he'd be working as a Fox News contributor and would be a front-runner for the GOP Presidential nomination.

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kgou/files/styles/x_large/public/201804/AP_94338802656_0.jpg)

He only racked up 168 deaths though. He'd probably face a still challenge from other candidates who'd heckle him for being too soft on the federal government.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 31, 2019, 11:57:59 PM
We could have saved ourselves a fortune if the we had handed McVeigh over to the 2 bucks from Chicago with the noose
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 01:26:45 AM
Or we could have saved 168 lives if he hadn't been radicalized by hate-filled, tinfoil hat-wearing, fact-averse, paranoid, anti-government, conservative propaganda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 01, 2019, 02:33:18 AM
What about people trying to wipe out an entire congressional delegation by opening fire on them at a baseball practice.......oh sorry, I forgot that guy was a democrat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 01, 2019, 03:52:47 AM
The Trump Crime Family is going to start using the E-Verify employment verification system at their golf clubs..

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/us/trump-organization-everify.html

The only reason that they are doing this now is because they got caught hiring immigrants illegally. The main draw for illegal immigrants is the willingness of employers like Trump to employ them illegally.

The owners of the Trump organization needed to be locked up for this long term, repeated law breaking and the have their properties taken using RICO laws.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 01, 2019, 11:26:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 31, 2019, 05:24:44 PM
Eamonn I hope when you go out at night you don't encounter any MAGA yelling, noose yielding, bleach carrying, homophobic, immune to the cold, Empire watching, rascist Trump supporters like that poor fella out in Chicago

Lets wait until the facts actually come out on that case. The police are having a hard time corroborating that story he gave.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 01, 2019, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 05:08:19 PM
Meet Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas - The new faces of American terror. The other day they shot 4 police officers in Houston, Texas. Conservatives covered it all day long while they assumed it was somebody Black who shot the cops. Today, they are silent. Imagine for a moment had the shooters been undocumented immigrants or Muslims or ANYTHING other than white. Imagine the outrage. Imagine the new policies they would demand we all agree to. But now that it's clear that it was a white couple - crickets.

"Build that wall my a$$," the enemy is within, and it's angry white conservatives.

I await the usual outrage of the "all lives matter" and "blue lives matter" crowd with great interest.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. These were sc**bag drug dealers who were killed in a raid. I'm just glad that there were no police fatalities.
On the other hand if these drug dealers were not white I'm sure Black Lives Matter would have been on the offensive and it would be wall to wall coverage of police brutality, how they came from broken homes etc.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 01, 2019, 11:53:13 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on January 31, 2019, 11:34:48 AM
Speaking of lunacy

The Womens March 2019 is a goldmine of laugh out loud stupidity.

It is basically a mental hospital going for a walk.

Here's one sample of it
https://vloggest.com/watch/womens-march-2019-with-will-witt-1076698234/

These videos are possibly the funniest thing you will watch this year - especially since the left have killed off the art of comedy.

Hey Eamonnca1

Were you at the Women's March this year? The bald fella in the video?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1088245376828592130
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 01, 2019, 01:19:14 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 01, 2019, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 31, 2019, 05:08:19 PM
Meet Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas - The new faces of American terror. The other day they shot 4 police officers in Houston, Texas. Conservatives covered it all day long while they assumed it was somebody Black who shot the cops. Today, they are silent. Imagine for a moment had the shooters been undocumented immigrants or Muslims or ANYTHING other than white. Imagine the outrage. Imagine the new policies they would demand we all agree to. But now that it's clear that it was a white couple - crickets.

"Build that wall my a$$," the enemy is within, and it's angry white conservatives.

I await the usual outrage of the "all lives matter" and "blue lives matter" crowd with great interest.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. These were sc**bag drug dealers who were killed in a raid. I'm just glad that there were no police fatalities.
On the other hand if these drug dealers were not white I'm sure Black Lives Matter would have been on the offensive and it would be wall to wall coverage of police brutality, how they came from broken homes etc.

Yes, because BLM and the media have been hyping up the killing of armed, dangerous black drug dealers. ::) :o

Do you find your idiotic, baseless hyperbole persuasive in your real life, or is it only us who have to read the nonsense you spout?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2019, 02:33:18 AM
What about people trying to wipe out an entire congressional delegation by opening fire on them at a baseball practice.......oh sorry, I forgot that guy was a democrat

What about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about ....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 01, 2019, 09:31:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2019, 02:33:18 AM
What about people trying to wipe out an entire congressional delegation by opening fire on them at a baseball practice.......oh sorry, I forgot that guy was a democrat

What about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about ....

What about the yearbook page of the Virginia Governor
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
It was locker-room talk.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 01, 2019, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
It was locker-room talk.

Unlike Kavanaugh, he was a grown adult when he did this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 01, 2019, 11:17:49 PM
Surely it has to be a photoshop job?

(https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5c54c2e33b0000a6026895df.png?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 02, 2019, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2019, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
It was locker-room talk.

Unlike Kavanaugh, he was a grown adult when he did this

Has he lied about it though?? Nope!!

I didn't believe Kavamaugh should be hung for his crimes as a youngster he should have owned it and he'd have been fine and ordinarily I think this dickhead was young enough and shouldn't be subject to the same vilification either but Trump has flipped the system and the Dems need to be better than the GOP and he should do the honourable thing and resign or be told to resign.

If the Dems are going to take back control they need zero tolerance of this crap along with the Franken thing they need to call it out and shut it down...

Republicans will suffer for being seen to reward poor choices!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 02, 2019, 02:49:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 02, 2019, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2019, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
It was locker-room talk.

Unlike Kavanaugh, he was a grown adult when he did this

Has he lied about it though?? Nope!!

I didn't believe Kavamaugh should be hung for his crimes as a youngster he should have owned it and he'd have been fine and ordinarily I think this d**khead was young enough and shouldn't be subject to the same vilification either but Trump has flipped the system and the Dems need to be better than the GOP and he should do the honourable thing and resign or be told to resign.

If the Dems are going to take back control they need zero tolerance of this crap along with the Franken thing they need to call it out and shut it down...

Republicans will suffer for being seen to reward poor choices!!

It was a different time....to think back then it was actually acceptable to print this in a yearbook

All my progressive friends on Facebook who had their panties in a knot over Covington (even after the full story came out), guess what Im hearing from them tonight........CRICKETS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2019, 05:23:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2019, 02:49:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 02, 2019, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2019, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
It was locker-room talk.

Unlike Kavanaugh, he was a grown adult when he did this

Has he lied about it though?? Nope!!

I didn't believe Kavamaugh should be hung for his crimes as a youngster he should have owned it and he'd have been fine and ordinarily I think this d**khead was young enough and shouldn't be subject to the same vilification either but Trump has flipped the system and the Dems need to be better than the GOP and he should do the honourable thing and resign or be told to resign.

If the Dems are going to take back control they need zero tolerance of this crap along with the Franken thing they need to call it out and shut it down...

Republicans will suffer for being seen to reward poor choices!!

It was a different time....to think back then it was actually acceptable to print this in a yearbook

All my progressive friends on Facebook who had their panties in a knot over Covington (even after the full story came out), guess what Im hearing from them tonight........CRICKETS

Senator Whitehouse must have developed a view on Kav and perjury

Lying

https://youtu.be/4ccXpDhMmBY

Lying

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/09/29/liz-swisher-yale-classmate-sloppy-drunk-bts-cuomo-vpx.cnn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 02, 2019, 10:48:00 AM
Oh boy! This Ralph Northam situation is hilarious to watch. CNN especially.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EGwm0Gv92X4/0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 02, 2019, 02:49:23 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/twitter-scorns-cnn-false-republican-label-virginia-gov-ralph-northam-1315621%3famp=1


Couldn't make it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2019, 03:32:25 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status/1091438074226200578
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 02, 2019, 03:41:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2019, 03:32:25 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status/1091438074226200578

Oh Donnie Deutsch——isn't he the guy who stuffed his real estate broker for more than $1M?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 02, 2019, 04:02:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2019, 02:49:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 02, 2019, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2019, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
It was locker-room talk.

Unlike Kavanaugh, he was a grown adult when he did this

Has he lied about it though?? Nope!!

I didn't believe Kavamaugh should be hung for his crimes as a youngster he should have owned it and he'd have been fine and ordinarily I think this d**khead was young enough and shouldn't be subject to the same vilification either but Trump has flipped the system and the Dems need to be better than the GOP and he should do the honourable thing and resign or be told to resign.

If the Dems are going to take back control they need zero tolerance of this crap along with the Franken thing they need to call it out and shut it down...

Republicans will suffer for being seen to reward poor choices!!

It was a different time....to think back then it was actually acceptable to print this in a yearbook

All my progressive friends on Facebook who had their panties in a knot over Covington (even after the full story came out), guess what Im hearing from them tonight........CRICKETS
that is same kind of attitude I have to stuff like this but the dems come out like wild Dogs when something like this happens with a conservative  this guy needs to be called out and removed i
Got to play demo at their own game . Btw no sign of did to comment ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 02, 2019, 07:50:26 PM
Delighted he's not resigning.

Shows the Democrats up for what they are and the double standards they play by
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 02, 2019, 08:47:38 PM
Are you sure that's what that is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 02, 2019, 09:14:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2019, 07:50:26 PM
Delighted he's not resigning.

Shows the Democrats up for what they are and the double standards they play by

What a pile of shit, but not for a second surprising from the lad whose only political ethos appears to be that Democrats are also nasty hypocrites.

Calls came from all over the Democratic political spectrum, in Virginia and Capital Hill, for him to resign.

Meanwhile, the GOP happily chugs away with Steve King, who has a long track record of racist political statements, only finally admonished, and then gently, when he crossed what is apparently some kind of Rubicon for the Republicans with this white supremacist statement.

And we'll not get into the occupant of the White House, who was sued by the government in the 70s, for racial discrimination in his real estate properties, while also courting David Duke and the alt-right in more recent years, and the overall southern strategy of the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 02, 2019, 09:19:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2019, 02:49:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 02, 2019, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2019, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
It was locker-room talk.

Unlike Kavanaugh, he was a grown adult when he did this

Has he lied about it though?? Nope!!

I didn't believe Kavamaugh should be hung for his crimes as a youngster he should have owned it and he'd have been fine and ordinarily I think this d**khead was young enough and shouldn't be subject to the same vilification either but Trump has flipped the system and the Dems need to be better than the GOP and he should do the honourable thing and resign or be told to resign.

If the Dems are going to take back control they need zero tolerance of this crap along with the Franken thing they need to call it out and shut it down...

Republicans will suffer for being seen to reward poor choices!!

It was a different time....to think back then it was actually acceptable to print this in a yearbook

All my progressive friends on Facebook who had their panties in a knot over Covington (even after the full story came out), guess what Im hearing from them tonight........CRICKETS

You must be hard up for friends. Its not the first time you've used your supposed FB friends as examples of the supposedly contemptible behaviour of liberals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 02, 2019, 10:05:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 02, 2019, 09:19:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2019, 02:49:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 02, 2019, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2019, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
It was locker-room talk.

Unlike Kavanaugh, he was a grown adult when he did this

Has he lied about it though?? Nope!!

I didn't believe Kavamaugh should be hung for his crimes as a youngster he should have owned it and he'd have been fine and ordinarily I think this d**khead was young enough and shouldn't be subject to the same vilification either but Trump has flipped the system and the Dems need to be better than the GOP and he should do the honourable thing and resign or be told to resign.

If the Dems are going to take back control they need zero tolerance of this crap along with the Franken thing they need to call it out and shut it down...

Republicans will suffer for being seen to reward poor choices!!

It was a different time....to think back then it was actually acceptable to print this in a yearbook

All my progressive friends on Facebook who had their panties in a knot over Covington (even after the full story came out), guess what Im hearing from them tonight........CRICKETS

You must be hard up for friends. Its not the first time you've used your supposed FB friends as examples of the supposedly contemptible behaviour of liberals.


Democrats=Good Guys

Republicans= Bad Guys


Rinse, wash, repeat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 02, 2019, 10:38:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2019, 10:05:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 02, 2019, 09:19:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 02, 2019, 02:49:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 02, 2019, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 01, 2019, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 01, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
It was locker-room talk.

Unlike Kavanaugh, he was a grown adult when he did this

Has he lied about it though?? Nope!!

I didn't believe Kavamaugh should be hung for his crimes as a youngster he should have owned it and he'd have been fine and ordinarily I think this d**khead was young enough and shouldn't be subject to the same vilification either but Trump has flipped the system and the Dems need to be better than the GOP and he should do the honourable thing and resign or be told to resign.

If the Dems are going to take back control they need zero tolerance of this crap along with the Franken thing they need to call it out and shut it down...

Republicans will suffer for being seen to reward poor choices!!

It was a different time....to think back then it was actually acceptable to print this in a yearbook

All my progressive friends on Facebook who had their panties in a knot over Covington (even after the full story came out), guess what Im hearing from them tonight........CRICKETS

You must be hard up for friends. Its not the first time you've used your supposed FB friends as examples of the supposedly contemptible behaviour of liberals.


Democrats=Good Guys

Republicans= Bad Guys


Rinse, wash, repeat

I've never said that.

You, on the other hand, are gloating over Northam trying to hang in there because it apparently allows you to rationalize and justify your "I am a conservative due to my hatred for Democrats and liberals because they're nasty hypocrites" spiel.

Never mind that everyone who matters on the Dem side is telling him to step down. Which, IMO, he will do (and should). His position is untenable. People generally do stupid shit when they're young, but in this day and age you can't condone someone appearing in blackface or a Klan costume, even if they were doing it, for example, just to be ridiculous or, in their perception, funny by donning the most blatantly offensive and insensitive costume  (think of whichever of Prince Harry or William it was who dressed up in a Hitler costume). He needs to do the right thing, apologize, fall on his sword and bow out with some dignity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 02, 2019, 11:14:34 PM
The difference between Repukelicans and Democrats is Dems call for one of their own to resign when caught up in something like this. Repukelicans circle the wagons and defend him as the victim of a "witch hunt." If he were a Repukelican he'd probably be sitting on the Supreme Court bench by now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 02, 2019, 11:45:50 PM

https://www.newsweek.com/who-shelley-joseph-judge-being-investigated-helping-immigrant-flee-arrest-ice-1242682


Seemingly a judge in MA obstructed an ICE agent from detaining a twice deported illegal up on drug charges......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 11:21:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 02, 2019, 09:14:25 PM

What a pile of shit, but not for a second surprising from the lad whose only political ethos appears to be that Democrats are also nasty hypocrites.

Calls came from all over the Democratic political spectrum, in Virginia and Capital Hill, for him to resign.

Meanwhile, the GOP happily chugs away with Steve King, who has a long track record of racist political statements, only finally admonished, and then gently, when he crossed what is apparently some kind of Rubicon for the Republicans with this white supremacist statement.

And we'll not get into the occupant of the White House, who was sued by the government in the 70s, for racial discrimination in his real estate properties, while also courting David Duke and the alt-right in more recent years, and the overall southern strategy of the GOP.

Come on J70. I know you want to shift the focus off Northam but the whataboutery you displayed might even make Eamonnca1 blush.
And he's completely brainwashed and bathing in the Kool-Aid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 11:21:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 02, 2019, 09:14:25 PM

What a pile of shit, but not for a second surprising from the lad whose only political ethos appears to be that Democrats are also nasty hypocrites.

Calls came from all over the Democratic political spectrum, in Virginia and Capital Hill, for him to resign.

Meanwhile, the GOP happily chugs away with Steve King, who has a long track record of racist political statements, only finally admonished, and then gently, when he crossed what is apparently some kind of Rubicon for the Republicans with this white supremacist statement.

And we'll not get into the occupant of the White House, who was sued by the government in the 70s, for racial discrimination in his real estate properties, while also courting David Duke and the alt-right in more recent years, and the overall southern strategy of the GOP.

Come on J70. I know you want to shift the focus off Northam but the whataboutery you displayed might even make Eamonnca1 blush.
And he's completely brainwashed and bathing in the Kool-Aid.

Unlike yourself who is forever making excuses for Trump and his minions (and I would suspect probably sees little wrong with what Northam actually did), I am perfectly happy for the focus to stay on Northam. Because unlike whitey's claims, the Dems have not been found wanting in this. Which is a lot more than you can say for the GOP with Trump and King and the like. And the more attention it gets, the greater the pressure there will be for him to resign.

So on the contrary, the focus is just fine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2019, 02:16:06 PM
Whether true or not, there's a story floating around on Twitter that the Lieutenant Governor has a serious sexual assault allegation in his past.....that would definitely explain Northam not wanting to resign.  Also being reported that Washington Post knew sat on the story because they couldn't verify it.  If either or both are true-it looks very bad for the left
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:00:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 02:16:06 PM
Whether true or not, there's a story floating around on Twitter that the Lieutenant Governor has a serious sexual assault allegation in his past.....that would definitely explain Northam not wanting to resign.  Also being reported that Washington Post knew sat on the story because they couldn't verify it.  If either or both are true-it looks very bad for the left

Why?

Is the entire "left" defined by and beholden to a state lieutenant governor?

How long did the Post know? Presumably a 35 year old college yearbook page would require some verification, especially given what happened with Buzzfeed two weeks ago and big- time especially given that the GOP missed the boat on this in the election only a few months back (although given their candidate, perhaps they either thought little of it or felt they didn't have any moral high ground on which to stand).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
(If true) they sat on the sexual assault story

As in ran the Kavanaugh story but didn't run the Fairfax story

WAPO is gutter partisan journalism at its finest and all the more  ironic given their barfable SuperBowl ad last night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:25:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
(If true) they sat on the sexual assault story

As in ran the Kavanaugh story but didn't run the Fairfax story

WAPO is gutter partisan journalism at its finest and all the more  ironic given their barfable SuperBowl ad last night

Right.

They only had an interview with the named accuser in the Kavanaugh story to follow up on the story of the letter which was broken by someone else. ::)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?


Hahahahahahahaha

Did you honestly write that?

Ever hear of KAVANAUGH?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?


Hahahahahahahaha

Did you honestly write that?

I'm not laughing.

You are ceaseless, yet rarely on target, in your wild accusations of bias and malice on the part of the "lamestream" media.

One wonders how the hell you sleep at night with your constant twisted resentment?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?


Hahahahahahahaha

Did you honestly write that?

I'm not laughing.

You are ceaseless, yet rarely on target, in your wild accusations of bias and malice on the part of the "lamestream" media.

One wonders how the hell you sleep at night with your constant twisted resentment?

Sleep like a baby actually

"IF" it's true that the WAPO "spiked" the Fairfax story due to lack of proof, yet ran with the Kavanaugh story how can you not have a serious problem with that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?


Hahahahahahahaha

Did you honestly write that?

I'm not laughing.

You are ceaseless, yet rarely on target, in your wild accusations of bias and malice on the part of the "lamestream" media.

One wonders how the hell you sleep at night with your constant twisted resentment?

Sleep like a baby actually

"IF" it's true that the WAPO "spiked" the Fairfax story due to lack of proof, yet ran with the Kavanaugh story how can you not have a serious problem with that?

What part of the on-the-record interview with Blasey Ford, who had sent the letter to the ranking member of the Senate Justice committee, is it that you don't understand?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:51:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?


Hahahahahahahaha

Did you honestly write that?

I'm not laughing.

You are ceaseless, yet rarely on target, in your wild accusations of bias and malice on the part of the "lamestream" media.

One wonders how the hell you sleep at night with your constant twisted resentment?

Sleep like a baby actually

"IF" it's true that the WAPO "spiked" the Fairfax story due to lack of proof, yet ran with the Kavanaugh story how can you not have a serious problem with that?

What part of the on-the-record interview with Blasey Ford, who had sent the letter to the ranking member of the Senate Justice committee, is it that you don't understand?

Blarney Ford is more like it.....more holes that a block of Swiss cheese

If so airtight why were her buddies texting a supposed witness to alter her story....FBI have the texts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:51:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?


Hahahahahahahaha

Did you honestly write that?

I'm not laughing.

You are ceaseless, yet rarely on target, in your wild accusations of bias and malice on the part of the "lamestream" media.

One wonders how the hell you sleep at night with your constant twisted resentment?

Sleep like a baby actually

"IF" it's true that the WAPO "spiked" the Fairfax story due to lack of proof, yet ran with the Kavanaugh story how can you not have a serious problem with that?

What part of the on-the-record interview with Blasey Ford, who had sent the letter to the ranking member of the Senate Justice committee, is it that you don't understand?

Blarney Ford is more like it.....more holes that a block of Swiss cheese

If so airtight why were her buddies texting a supposed witness to alter her story....FBI have the texts

So, the newspapers are supposed to put all protagonists under oath and get subpoena power before they run with an already existing story now?

A very useful press we would have under your vision. Nixon would have loved you. 1980s/90s Fianna Fail, Bill Clinton and Oliver North too.

That nonsense aside, my point is that the Post got the accuser in an already broken major story to go on the record under her own name with her accusation. If there is some suggestion that the Post had access to likewise in this Fairfax case, then present it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?


Hahahahahahahaha

Did you honestly write that?

I'm not laughing.

You are ceaseless, yet rarely on target, in your wild accusations of bias and malice on the part of the "lamestream" media.

One wonders how the hell you sleep at night with your constant twisted resentment?

Sleep like a baby actually

"IF" it's true that the WAPO "spiked" the Fairfax story due to lack of proof, yet ran with the Kavanaugh story how can you not have a serious problem with that?

What part of the on-the-record interview with Blasey Ford, who had sent the letter to the ranking member of the Senate Justice committee, is it that you don't understand?

On the record with her? ha!

(http://tapwires.com/files/images/2018/October/03/perjuryford.jpg)

mucho much perjury
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

I'll try give you a bit more credit than to ask a question that stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

I'll try give you a bit more credit than to ask a question that stupid.

No, please don't. Go ahead and tell us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2019, 05:45:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:51:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?


Hahahahahahahaha

Did you honestly write that?

I'm not laughing.

You are ceaseless, yet rarely on target, in your wild accusations of bias and malice on the part of the "lamestream" media.

One wonders how the hell you sleep at night with your constant twisted resentment?

Sleep like a baby actually

"IF" it's true that the WAPO "spiked" the Fairfax story due to lack of proof, yet ran with the Kavanaugh story how can you not have a serious problem with that?

What part of the on-the-record interview with Blasey Ford, who had sent the letter to the ranking member of the Senate Justice committee, is it that you don't understand?

Blarney Ford is more like it.....more holes that a block of Swiss cheese

If so airtight why were her buddies texting a supposed witness to alter her story....FBI have the texts

So, the newspapers are supposed to put all protagonists under oath and get subpoena power before they run with an already existing story now?

A very useful press we would have under your vision. Nixon would have loved you. 1980s/90s Fianna Fail, Bill Clinton and Oliver North too.

That nonsense aside, my point is that the Post got the accuser in an already broken major story to go on the record under her own name with her accusation. If there is some suggestion that the Post had access to likewise in this Fairfax case, then present it.

They're running the Fairfax story now-clowns

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:55:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 05:45:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:51:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
Sat on the sexual assault story

Ok... you said yourself they couldn't verify it.

Have the Post run such unverified stories in the past?

Why didn't anyone else pick up the story and make their stab at verifying it, if it has been floating out there for so long?


Hahahahahahahaha

Did you honestly write that?

I'm not laughing.

You are ceaseless, yet rarely on target, in your wild accusations of bias and malice on the part of the "lamestream" media.

One wonders how the hell you sleep at night with your constant twisted resentment?

Sleep like a baby actually

"IF" it's true that the WAPO "spiked" the Fairfax story due to lack of proof, yet ran with the Kavanaugh story how can you not have a serious problem with that?

What part of the on-the-record interview with Blasey Ford, who had sent the letter to the ranking member of the Senate Justice committee, is it that you don't understand?

Blarney Ford is more like it.....more holes that a block of Swiss cheese

If so airtight why were her buddies texting a supposed witness to alter her story....FBI have the texts

So, the newspapers are supposed to put all protagonists under oath and get subpoena power before they run with an already existing story now?

A very useful press we would have under your vision. Nixon would have loved you. 1980s/90s Fianna Fail, Bill Clinton and Oliver North too.

That nonsense aside, my point is that the Post got the accuser in an already broken major story to go on the record under her own name with her accusation. If there is some suggestion that the Post had access to likewise in this Fairfax case, then present it.

They're running the Fairfax story now-clowns

Everyone is running it now after that conservative site broke it and he released the statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

I'll try give you a bit more credit than to ask a question that stupid.

No, please don't. Go ahead and tell us.

What part of last minute abortion are you not opposed to? Why not drown them like kittens? Oh right. Bet you are a member of Peta.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

I'll try give you a bit more credit than to ask a question that stupid.

No, please don't. Go ahead and tell us.

What part of last minute abortion are you not opposed to? Why not drown them like kittens? Oh right. Bet you are a member of Peta.

I'm opposed to abortion except where the life/serious health of the mother is at stake or in the case of foetal abnormalities so severe continuation would be cruel.

So try again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 04, 2019, 06:21:30 PM
Blacking isn't used anymore?  Why did they allow Tropic Thunder?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

I'll try give you a bit more credit than to ask a question that stupid.

No, please don't. Go ahead and tell us.

What part of last minute abortion are you not opposed to? Why not drown them like kittens? Oh right. Bet you are a member of Peta.

I'm opposed to abortion except where the life/serious health of the mother is at stake or in the case of foetal abnormalities so severe continuation would be cruel.

So try again.

So you're with President Trump on this one.

Are you starting to see the luncacy the democrats are advocating?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:38:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

I'll try give you a bit more credit than to ask a question that stupid.

No, please don't. Go ahead and tell us.

What part of last minute abortion are you not opposed to? Why not drown them like kittens? Oh right. Bet you are a member of Peta.

I'm opposed to abortion except where the life/serious health of the mother is at stake or in the case of foetal abnormalities so severe continuation would be cruel.

So try again.

So you're with President Trump on this one.

Are you starting to see the luncacy the democrats are advocating?

What exactly ARE they advocating?

And BTW, I don't for a second believe Trump's "views" on this are anything other than political expediency. I'd be shocked if there weren't a paid-for abortion or two in the closet of a rich, immoral, casual philanderer like himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:53:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:38:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

I'll try give you a bit more credit than to ask a question that stupid.

No, please don't. Go ahead and tell us.

What part of last minute abortion are you not opposed to? Why not drown them like kittens? Oh right. Bet you are a member of Peta.

I'm opposed to abortion except where the life/serious health of the mother is at stake or in the case of foetal abnormalities so severe continuation would be cruel.

So try again.

So you're with President Trump on this one.

Are you starting to see the luncacy the democrats are advocating?

What exactly ARE they advocating?

And BTW, I don't for a second believe Trump's "views" on this are anything other than political expediency. I'd be shocked if there weren't a paid-for abortion or two in the closet of a rich, immoral, casual philanderer like himself.

President Trump went after Hillary on the same subject during the debates. He was bang on the money then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9cpES9X8Ds

All you could hear on women's marches was my body, my choice. The democrats are all behind Planned Parenthood. Which side of the debate do you think the democrats are on. Can you really back them when performing abortions at 9 months, especially when they start procedures when there is NOT a medical reason. It's a right remember?

I do love how you try stick the boot in to President Trunp with absolutely no facts.
Do you have your TDS tablets? You may want to consult your Physician.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:53:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:38:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

I'll try give you a bit more credit than to ask a question that stupid.

No, please don't. Go ahead and tell us.

What part of last minute abortion are you not opposed to? Why not drown them like kittens? Oh right. Bet you are a member of Peta.

I'm opposed to abortion except where the life/serious health of the mother is at stake or in the case of foetal abnormalities so severe continuation would be cruel.

So try again.

So you're with President Trump on this one.

Are you starting to see the luncacy the democrats are advocating?

What exactly ARE they advocating?

And BTW, I don't for a second believe Trump's "views" on this are anything other than political expediency. I'd be shocked if there weren't a paid-for abortion or two in the closet of a rich, immoral, casual philanderer like himself.

President Trump went after Hillary on the same subject during the debates. He was bang on the money then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9cpES9X8Ds

All you could hear on women's marches was my body, my choice. The democrats are all behind Planned Parenthood. Which side of the debate do you think the democrats are on. Can you really back them when performing abortions at 9 months, especially when they start procedures when there is NOT a medical reason. It's a right remember?

I do love how you try stick the boot in to President Trunp with absolutely no facts.
Do you have your TDS tablets? You may want to consult your Physician.

Once again, WHAT EXACTLY IS IT that you claim Democrats are trying to introduce?

As for Trump, his track record speaks for itself. A documented history of being pro-choice. A documented history of cheating on all of his wives (including Melania who was home with his infant son), including with porn stars. Dozens of allegations of sexual harrassment and assault. A long history of boasting about his escapades with women and of treating women, publicly, like sexual objects for his enjoyment.

And I don't have TDS. YOU brought him into this discussion, not me. If you don't want the obvious problems with the idea of standing "with President Trump" brought up, then do yourself a favour and leave him out of it. Because he has zero moral authority as a person to bring to any discussion like this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2019, 07:17:05 PM
J70

You've lost the plot completely

2 unverifiable and unsubstantiated sexual assault allegations against 2 separate individuals

They run one, but not the other

Youll twist yourself into a pretzel trying to argue the nuances of the Kavanaugh allegation over the Fairfax one and why they justifiably ran one but not the other. Pretty pathetic, even by your low standards
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 07:34:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 07:17:05 PM
J70

You've lost the plot completely

2 unverifiable and unsubstantiated sexual assault allegations against 2 separate individuals

They run one, but not the other

Youll twist yourself into a pretzel trying to argue the nuances of the Kavanaugh allegation over the Fairfax one and why they justifiably ran one but not the other. Pretty pathetic, even by your low standards

Kavanaugh - a story already out there due to the leak from Feinstein's office, an accuser willing to go on the record, supposedly having told her therapist, husband and others in the past.
Fairfax - unpublished story, his word against hers, no one else told about it. Has she put her name out there yet?

In your own tedious fashion, believe what YOU want.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2019, 07:43:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 07:34:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 07:17:05 PM
J70

You've lost the plot completely

2 unverifiable and unsubstantiated sexual assault allegations against 2 separate individuals

They run one, but not the other

Youll twist yourself into a pretzel trying to argue the nuances of the Kavanaugh allegation over the Fairfax one and why they justifiably ran one but not the other. Pretty pathetic, even by your low standards

Kavanaugh - a story already out there due to the leak from Feinstein's office, an accuser willing to go on the record, supposedly having told her therapist, husband and others in the past.
Fairfax - unpublished story, his word against hers, no one else told about it. Has she put her name out there yet?

In your own tedious fashion, believe what YOU want.

Yes Brett Kavanaugh was afforded due process by the WaPo

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/29/washington-post-admits-error-after-kavanaugh-story/

Fvckin joke......heads will roll. Mark my words
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2019, 09:10:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 07:43:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 07:34:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 07:17:05 PM
J70

You've lost the plot completely

2 unverifiable and unsubstantiated sexual assault allegations against 2 separate individuals

They run one, but not the other

Youll twist yourself into a pretzel trying to argue the nuances of the Kavanaugh allegation over the Fairfax one and why they justifiably ran one but not the other. Pretty pathetic, even by your low standards

Kavanaugh - a story already out there due to the leak from Feinstein's office, an accuser willing to go on the record, supposedly having told her therapist, husband and others in the past.
Fairfax - unpublished story, his word against hers, no one else told about it. Has she put her name out there yet?

In your own tedious fashion, believe what YOU want.

Yes Brett Kavanaugh was afforded due process by the WaPo

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/29/washington-post-admits-error-after-kavanaugh-story/

Fvckin joke......heads will roll. Mark my words

1. How long was it "misfiled" for?
2. Did the Post publish details of and/or a transcript of Kavanaugh's Fox News interview response to Ford? Did they publish his Senate testimony? Or did they only present her claims?
3. In what fairytale land do you think that someone willing to put their name to a detailed allegation against a Supreme Court nominee, of any persuasion, an allegation already in the hands of the ranking member of the Senate committee and word of which had already leaked out, would NOT have been taken up by one of the leading media outlets?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2019, 09:28:04 PM
They published it and interviewed her without an iota of evidence that the event ever took place

They took a guilty until proven innocent approach with Kavanaugh but innocent until proven guilty with Fairfax
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 09:29:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:53:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:38:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 04, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
It seems really strange that democrat supporters are more outraged with the fact that he once wore a white hood or blackface at halloween rather than his proposal to legitimize infanticide right up to the moment of birth.

Talk about getting your priorities correct, right democrats?

So what exactly were you opposed to with that legislation in VA?

I'll try give you a bit more credit than to ask a question that stupid.

No, please don't. Go ahead and tell us.

What part of last minute abortion are you not opposed to? Why not drown them like kittens? Oh right. Bet you are a member of Peta.

I'm opposed to abortion except where the life/serious health of the mother is at stake or in the case of foetal abnormalities so severe continuation would be cruel.

So try again.

So you're with President Trump on this one.

Are you starting to see the luncacy the democrats are advocating?

What exactly ARE they advocating?

And BTW, I don't for a second believe Trump's "views" on this are anything other than political expediency. I'd be shocked if there weren't a paid-for abortion or two in the closet of a rich, immoral, casual philanderer like himself.

President Trump went after Hillary on the same subject during the debates. He was bang on the money then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9cpES9X8Ds

All you could hear on women's marches was my body, my choice. The democrats are all behind Planned Parenthood. Which side of the debate do you think the democrats are on. Can you really back them when performing abortions at 9 months, especially when they start procedures when there is NOT a medical reason. It's a right remember?

I do love how you try stick the boot in to President Trunp with absolutely no facts.
Do you have your TDS tablets? You may want to consult your Physician.

Once again, WHAT EXACTLY IS IT that you claim Democrats are trying to introduce?

As for Trump, his track record speaks for itself. A documented history of being pro-choice. A documented history of cheating on all of his wives (including Melania who was home with his infant son), including with porn stars. Dozens of allegations of sexual harrassment and assault. A long history of boasting about his escapades with women and of treating women, publicly, like sexual objects for his enjoyment.

And I don't have TDS. YOU brought him into this discussion, not me. If you don't want the obvious problems with the idea of standing "with President Trump" brought up, then do yourself a favour and leave him out of it. Because he has zero moral authority as a person to bring to any discussion like this.

Methinks you protest too much. Maybe Eamonnca1 will be kind enough to share his prescription with you

(https://gaia.adage.com/images/bin/image/jumbo/ScreenShot20180719at12.36.33PM.jpg)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on February 05, 2019, 02:46:39 PM
There's a long list;

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2019/02/04/poll-whats-your-favourite-us-backed-coup/ (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2019/02/04/poll-whats-your-favourite-us-backed-coup/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 03:54:11 PM
President Trump hit it out of the park at the SOTU last night. What a leader.

The Democrat response was all doom and gloom. They are not living in any sort of reality. The face of Pelosi during the address though - Like a spitting image puppet.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 03:59:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 09:28:04 PM
They published it and interviewed her without an iota of evidence that the event ever took place

They took a guilty until proven innocent approach with Kavanaugh but innocent until proven guilty with Fairfax

It's now "she must not be believed". I still find it amazing how they can shift position 180 degrees and hope no-one notices their total hypocrisy. And they don't even feel embarrassed if they do get called out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2019, 04:24:10 PM
Statler and Waldorf still shouting to each other in their echo chamber in a lunatic asylum, I see.

Schizophrenia obviously does very strange things to people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 06, 2019, 04:34:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 03:59:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 04, 2019, 09:28:04 PM
They published it and interviewed her without an iota of evidence that the event ever took place

They took a guilty until proven innocent approach with Kavanaugh but innocent until proven guilty with Fairfax

It's now "she must not be believed". I still find it amazing how they can shift position 180 degrees and hope no-one notices their total hypocrisy. And they don't even feel embarrassed if they do get called out.

From your own beloved Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democratic-party-of-virginia-says-sex-assault-claim-against-lt-gov-fairfax-of-profound-gravity (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democratic-party-of-virginia-says-sex-assault-claim-against-lt-gov-fairfax-of-profound-gravity)

The Democratic Party of Virginia said Tuesday that an allegation of sexual assault against the state's lieutenant governor, Justin Fairfax, should be "taken with profound gravity."

Politico: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/06/perez-fairfax-due-process-1150267 (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/06/perez-fairfax-due-process-1150267)

The woman who has accused Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax of sexual assault deserves "due process," Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez said Wednesday.


"She must not be believed" indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 04:41:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2019, 04:24:10 PM
Statler and Waldorf still shouting to each other in their echo chamber in a lunatic asylum, I see.

Schizophrenia obviously does very strange things to people.
LOL.
Sid - that's classic, especially when you use your other handle Eamonnca1 to reply to yourself.

THATS ACTUAL SCHIZOPHRENIA

then throw in your TDS ;)

The left are in hiding after the northam and Fairfax bungle scandals. I understand why as it's really showing how reprehensible the democrats are. Twisted selfish egotisitical people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 06, 2019, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 04:41:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2019, 04:24:10 PM
Statler and Waldorf still shouting to each other in their echo chamber in a lunatic asylum, I see.

Schizophrenia obviously does very strange things to people.
LOL.
Sid - that's classic, especially when you use your other handle Eamonnca1 to reply to yourself.

THATS ACTUAL SCHIZOPHRENIA

then throw in your TDS ;)

The left are in hiding after the northam and Fairfax bungle scandals. I understand why as it's really showing how reprehensible the democrats are. Twisted selfish egotisitical people.
Still shouting, I see.  ;D

Are you Statler or Waldorf?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 06, 2019, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2019, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 04:41:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2019, 04:24:10 PM
Statler and Waldorf still shouting to each other in their echo chamber in a lunatic asylum, I see.

Schizophrenia obviously does very strange things to people.
LOL.
Sid - that's classic, especially when you use your other handle Eamonnca1 to reply to yourself.

THATS ACTUAL SCHIZOPHRENIA

then throw in your TDS ;)

The left are in hiding after the northam and Fairfax bungle scandals. I understand why as it's really showing how reprehensible the democrats are. Twisted selfish egotisitical people.
Still shouting, I see.  ;D

Are you Statler or Waldorf?

It's painful to watch, isn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 06, 2019, 06:24:56 PM
(https://images.indianexpress.com/2019/02/1_759-11.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 06:27:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 06, 2019, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2019, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 04:41:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 06, 2019, 04:24:10 PM
Statler and Waldorf still shouting to each other in their echo chamber in a lunatic asylum, I see.

Schizophrenia obviously does very strange things to people.
LOL.
Sid - that's classic, especially when you use your other handle Eamonnca1 to reply to yourself.

THATS ACTUAL SCHIZOPHRENIA

then throw in your TDS ;)

The left are in hiding after the northam and Fairfax bungle scandals. I understand why as it's really showing how reprehensible the democrats are. Twisted selfish egotisitical people.
Still shouting, I see.  ;D

Are you Statler or Waldorf?

It's painful to watch, isn't it?

and as if by magic Eamonnca1 appears. Nice work "Sid" ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 06:40:09 PM
Some of the highlights last night

Kyrsten Sinema getting warned by another democrat to "Watch your ass" when she was applauding President Trump. Just shows the state of that party.

a clapping Joe Manchin laughing at grumpy seated democrat women, then turns and winks at President Trump.

Chuck schumer nearly choking on his raw kipper when President Trump lays into democrats about their 9 month abortion plan.


What a SOTU by President Trump.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1092987106820005888

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2019, 12:08:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 06, 2019, 06:27:24 PM
and as if by magic Eamonnca1 appears. Nice work "Sid" ;)

Do you have shares in Reynolds Wrap?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2019, 12:10:16 AM
What a SOTU indeed. Knocked his own family out.

(https://pics.me.me/mfw-this-potus-gives-a-sotu-address-i-really-feel-41629668.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2019, 12:26:51 AM
Very bad week for the left and the media

Governor and AG of VA both admitted using blackface (and Guv of possibly dressing as a Klansman)

African American Lt Guv accused of sexual assault (and at a closed door mtg supposedly said "fvck that b1tch")

Double standards by WaPo reporting in Kavanaugh but not Fairfax

Elizabeth Warren for the first time being caught red handed claiming to be an "Indian American"

Instagram issuing a warning to a senior Republican for sharing that document further reinforcing claims by conservatives of unfair treatment

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/6/kayleigh-mcenany-instagram-post-elizabeth-warren-d/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 07, 2019, 12:46:08 AM
What is the big deal with black face any road?

We all know that we aren't supposed to use it now under any circumstances but I'm not even sure where the ultra offence comes from with it.

And as far as this case goes if he apologised for something he did years ago when acting the lark as a young lad and says that he has learned from it and knows better now then why shouldn't that be good enough?

I reckon the abandonment of this guy by the democratic party is more to do with courting the black vote in key states like Michigan and Pennsylvania etc than anything about being fair and reasonable. But this could badly backfire as everyone has skeleton lurking and it could up destroying their best candidates for 2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2019, 01:00:51 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 07, 2019, 12:46:08 AM
What is the big deal with black face any road?

We all know that we aren't supposed to use it now under any circumstances but I'm not even sure where the ultra offence comes from with it.

And as far as this case goes if he apologised for something he did years ago when acting the lark as a young lad and says that he has learned from it and knows better now then why shouldn't that be good enough?

I reckon the abandonment of this guy by the democratic party is more to do with courting the black vote in key states like Michigan and Pennsylvania etc than anything about being fair and reasonable. But this could badly backfire as everyone has skeleton lurking and it could up destroying their best candidates for 2020

Well....what you said about Blackface is what most sensible people would say, but the Democrats aren't very sensible people.

How ironic is it that they accused the Republican candidate for governor of being a rascist?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2019, 01:55:15 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 07, 2019, 12:46:08 AM
What is the big deal with black face any road?

We all know that we aren't supposed to use it now under any circumstances but I'm not even sure where the ultra offence comes from with it.

And as far as this case goes if he apologised for something he did years ago when acting the lark as a young lad and says that he has learned from it and knows better now then why shouldn't that be good enough?

I reckon the abandonment of this guy by the democratic party is more to do with courting the black vote in key states like Michigan and Pennsylvania etc than anything about being fair and reasonable. But this could badly backfire as everyone has skeleton lurking and it could up destroying their best candidates for 2020

Its the history of blackface. Kind of like the Punch cartoon depictions of Irish people back in Victorian times. Would we be ok with the Brits dressing up like those caricatures?

Your latter point is valid though, and obviously something the Dems are wrestling with right now. The Northam one is utterly offensive and inexusable, yet apparently was very acceptable to that medical school back then (apparently that yearbook is FULL of that shit!). The AG dressing as a black rapper... does that warrant resignation?

Remember Dan Ackroyd in Trading Places? Where is the line? When is the line?

(https://www.bet.com/celebrities/photos/2013/05/celebrities-in-blackface/_jcr_content/mainCol/imagegallerycontainer/galleryimage_5.custom1540fx865fx0xcrop.dimg/__1369769082429/052813-celebs-in-blackface-Dan-Aykroyd-trading-places.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on February 07, 2019, 08:53:56 AM
Blackface? When are they going to ban pumpkin face?😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 10:46:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 12:26:51 AM
Very bad week for the left and the media

Governor and AG of VA both admitted using blackface (and Guv of possibly dressing as a Klansman)

African American Lt Guv accused of sexual assault (and at a closed door mtg supposedly said "fvck that b1tch")

Double standards by WaPo reporting in Kavanaugh but not Fairfax

Elizabeth Warren for the first time being caught red handed claiming to be an "Indian American"

Instagram issuing a warning to a senior Republican for sharing that document further reinforcing claims by conservatives of unfair treatment

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/6/kayleigh-mcenany-instagram-post-elizabeth-warren-d/

Don't forget Covington. Looking forward to seeing those celebrities sued. Hopefully they get that awful Trevor Noah.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 10:52:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 01:55:15 AM
Remember Dan Ackroyd in Trading Places? Where is the line? When is the line?

That's a good point. What should be done with this film now?
Should the film be banned or edited as it's bound to offend.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 11:04:07 AM
"Wearing blackface is business-casual for democrats in Virginia" - Tucker Carlson

LOL.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2019, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 11:04:07 AM
"Wearing blackface is business-casual for democrats in Virginia" - Tucker Carlson

LOL.

If Tucker thinks it's all a joke at the Dems expense, perhaps he should cast his eye towards the Florida GOP.

I'd imagine there are quite a few politicians on both sides across the south nervously considering their past escapades in shoe polish at the moment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 02:16:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 11:04:07 AM
"Wearing blackface is business-casual for democrats in Virginia" - Tucker Carlson

LOL.

If Tucker thinks it's all a joke at the Dems expense, perhaps he should cast his eye towards the Florida GOP.

I'd imagine there are quite a few politicians on both sides across the south nervously considering their past escapades in shoe polish at the moment.

Crikey J70 - don't be humourless. It was a cracking line.
What do you think about Trading Places - should this film be banned?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2019, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 02:16:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 11:04:07 AM
"Wearing blackface is business-casual for democrats in Virginia" - Tucker Carlson

LOL.

If Tucker thinks it's all a joke at the Dems expense, perhaps he should cast his eye towards the Florida GOP.

I'd imagine there are quite a few politicians on both sides across the south nervously considering their past escapades in shoe polish at the moment.

Crikey J70 - don't be humourless. It was a cracking line.
What do you think about Trading Places - should this film be banned?

1. Fair enough.
2. Of course not. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2019, 04:24:18 PM
Seemingly Apple has handed over access to Roger Stones iCloud to Mueller, having refused to do the same for the San Bernardino attackers citing a dangerous precedent or some other such nonsense

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 07, 2019, 12:46:08 AM
What is the big deal with black face any road?

We all know that we aren't supposed to use it now under any circumstances but I'm not even sure where the ultra offence comes from with it.

It's been used by some to pretend they are offended and then use that fact to gain advantages.

As J70 pointed out, when Dan Akyroyd did it in Trading Places there wasn't an a hint of outrage. If someone decided to dress up like Diana Ross and the supremes (nod to Father Ted) or Michael Jackson should you be offended because they can't mimic the skin colour.

What do we make of Bo Selecta's portrayal of Mel B and Craig David? Is a mask different to paint?





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2019, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 04:24:18 PM
Seemingly Apple has handed over access to Roger Stones iCloud to Mueller, having refused to do the same for the San Bernardino attackers citing a dangerous precedent or some other such nonsense

More unfairness for poor conservatives at the hands of corporate America, huh, whitey?

Perhaps you could lay out the details of each case and how they're examples of "unfair" treatment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 07, 2019, 04:38:19 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 07, 2019, 12:46:08 AM
What is the big deal with black face any road?

We all know that we aren't supposed to use it now under any circumstances but I'm not even sure where the ultra offence comes from with it.

It's been used by some to pretend they are offended and then use that fact to gain advantages.

As J70 pointed out, when Dan Akyroyd did it in Trading Places there wasn't an a hint of outrage. If someone decided to dress up like Diana Ross and the supremes (nod to Father Ted) or Michael Jackson should you be offended because they can't mimic the skin colour.

What do we make of Bo Selecta's portrayal of Mel B and Craig David? Is a mask different to paint?

Tucker Carlson??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2019, 04:39:03 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 07, 2019, 12:46:08 AM
What is the big deal with black face any road?

We all know that we aren't supposed to use it now under any circumstances but I'm not even sure where the ultra offence comes from with it.

It's been used by some to pretend they are offended and then use that fact to gain advantages.

As J70 pointed out, when Dan Akyroyd did it in Trading Places there wasn't an a hint of outrage. If someone decided to dress up like Diana Ross and the supremes (nod to Father Ted) or Michael Jackson should you be offended because they can't mimic the skin colour.

What do we make of Bo Selecta's portrayal of Mel B and Craig David? Is a mask different to paint?

What "advantages" are being gained and by whom?

Who is "pretending" to be offended? How do you know?

Is this like your rant last year under your foxy handle when you were put out that black people could use the n-word but you couldn't?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 07, 2019, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 04:24:18 PM
Seemingly Apple has handed over access to Roger Stones iCloud to Mueller, having refused to do the same for the San Bernardino attackers citing a dangerous precedent or some other such nonsense



Bullshit

In the San Bernardino cae there were 2 requests

Handover iCloud backups, Apple complied
Write software to break in to the shooters iPhone, Apple objected

In the Roger Stone case there was 1 request

Handover iCloud backups, Apple complied

You should try to avoid regurgitating nonsense from right wing conspiracy loon websites.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 02:16:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 11:04:07 AM
"Wearing blackface is business-casual for democrats in Virginia" - Tucker Carlson

LOL.

If Tucker thinks it's all a joke at the Dems expense, perhaps he should cast his eye towards the Florida GOP.

I'd imagine there are quite a few politicians on both sides across the south nervously considering their past escapades in shoe polish at the moment.

Crikey J70 - don't be humourless. It was a cracking line.
What do you think about Trading Places - should this film be banned?

1. Fair enough.
2. Of course not.

Where is the consistency with the democrats J70 ?- Dan Aykroyd was poking fun at minorities by his look and mimicking the accent. Surely that is a hate crime under the left's rules?

But Ralph Northam - at the time not a politician - paints his face in 1984 now faces calls to resign from his own party.
Remember this was just one year after Dan Aykroyd did it.

This is the start of the left eating their own. Can't wait for the primaries.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2019, 05:18:20 PM
Quote from: dec on February 07, 2019, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 04:24:18 PM
Seemingly Apple has handed over access to Roger Stones iCloud to Mueller, having refused to do the same for the San Bernardino attackers citing a dangerous precedent or some other such nonsense



Bullshit

In the San Bernardino cae there were 2 requests

Handover iCloud backups, Apple complied
Write software to break in to the shooters iPhone, Apple objected

In the Roger Stone case there was 1 request

Handover iCloud backups, Apple complied

You should try to avoid regurgitating nonsense from right wing conspiracy loon websites.

First of all I prefaced my comment with the word seemingly. I don't believe anything from anyone on face value.

Secondly......the nuances over the cloud versus the phone.....keep distracting

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
Christ of almighty. Are conservatives seriously trying to paint Democrats as the ones with a race problem? If that's not a case of motes and beams then I don't know what is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
Christ of almighty. Are conservatives seriously trying to paint Democrats as the ones with a race problem? If that's not a case of motes and beams then I don't know what is.

I see the Democrats came out in uniform at SOTU.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.mediamatters.org/drupal/s3fs-public/filesUpload/infowars-kkk-sotu.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 07, 2019, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 05:18:20 PM
First of all I prefaced my comment with the word seemingly. I don't believe anything from anyone on face value.

But you will still post stuff you don't believe on this discussion board?

Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 05:18:20 PM
Secondly......the nuances over the cloud versus the phone.....keep distracting

"the cloud versus the phone"

"Nuances"?

Are you seriously that technically illiterate?

"Keep distracting"

You mean that pointing out that what you posted is bullshit is somehow distracting? Well then maybe you should refrain from posting bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2019, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 02:16:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 11:04:07 AM
"Wearing blackface is business-casual for democrats in Virginia" - Tucker Carlson

LOL.

If Tucker thinks it's all a joke at the Dems expense, perhaps he should cast his eye towards the Florida GOP.

I'd imagine there are quite a few politicians on both sides across the south nervously considering their past escapades in shoe polish at the moment.

Crikey J70 - don't be humourless. It was a cracking line.
What do you think about Trading Places - should this film be banned?

1. Fair enough.
2. Of course not.

Where is the consistency with the democrats J70 ?- Dan Aykroyd was poking fun at minorities by his look and mimicking the accent. Surely that is a hate crime under the left's rules?

But Ralph Northam - at the time not a politician - paints his face in 1984 now faces calls to resign from his own party.
Remember this was just one year after Dan Aykroyd did it.

This is the start of the left eating their own. Can't wait for the primaries.

1. I don't agree they're the same. Northam's was the dumb minstrel type stereotype along with a KKK guy. Ackroyd's was a character in a film disguising himself as a pot-smoking Bob Marley/Rastafarian style Jamaican.

2. Yes, I agree the left "is eating its own" here. It's a difficult situation, unprecedented, just like the fallout from #meetoo. It's hard to have consistency with an emerging problem. There's no roadmap to deal with this. The party as a whole is grappling with it while still being populated by professional politicians who have skeletons in their closet. I don't know what the way forward is. Northam is toast, that's all I know. Had he been a man about it, maybe he would have had some chance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2019, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 05:18:20 PM
Quote from: dec on February 07, 2019, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 04:24:18 PM
Seemingly Apple has handed over access to Roger Stones iCloud to Mueller, having refused to do the same for the San Bernardino attackers citing a dangerous precedent or some other such nonsense



Bullshit

In the San Bernardino cae there were 2 requests

Handover iCloud backups, Apple complied
Write software to break in to the shooters iPhone, Apple objected

In the Roger Stone case there was 1 request

Handover iCloud backups, Apple complied

You should try to avoid regurgitating nonsense from right wing conspiracy loon websites.

First of all I prefaced my comment with the word seemingly. I don't believe anything from anyone on face value.

Secondly......the nuances over the cloud versus the phone.....keep distracting

He just told you they complied with the cloud request in both cases.

Is he wrong?

Was there a request to write software and break into Stone's phone as there was with the San Bernardino killers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2019, 05:41:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
Christ of almighty. Are conservatives seriously trying to paint Democrats as the ones with a race problem? If that's not a case of motes and beams then I don't know what is.

Keep your filthy KKK hands off our confederate flags and statues!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 05:58:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 05:41:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
Christ of almighty. Are conservatives seriously trying to paint Democrats as the ones with a race problem? If that's not a case of motes and beams then I don't know what is.

Keep your filthy KKK hands off our confederate flags and statues!

Even your lunchbox is a dead giveaway about your underlying allegiances J70.

(http://dukesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/bo-and-luke-lunch-box.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2019, 06:46:46 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 05:58:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 05:41:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
Christ of almighty. Are conservatives seriously trying to paint Democrats as the ones with a race problem? If that's not a case of motes and beams then I don't know what is.

Keep your filthy KKK hands off our confederate flags and statues!

Even your lunchbox is a dead giveaway about your underlying allegiances J70.

(http://dukesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/bo-and-luke-lunch-box.jpg)

I loved that show!

Meanwhile, there's another one, GOP Senate Majority leader... https://pilotonline.com/news/government/politics/virginia/article_d4ce7700-2ae3-11e9-ace9-ff7814740140.html (https://pilotonline.com/news/government/politics/virginia/article_d4ce7700-2ae3-11e9-ace9-ff7814740140.html)

I guess the last person out of the Virginia State Capitol should remember to switch off the lights.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 02:16:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2019, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 07, 2019, 11:04:07 AM
"Wearing blackface is business-casual for democrats in Virginia" - Tucker Carlson

LOL.

If Tucker thinks it's all a joke at the Dems expense, perhaps he should cast his eye towards the Florida GOP.

I'd imagine there are quite a few politicians on both sides across the south nervously considering their past escapades in shoe polish at the moment.

Crikey J70 - don't be humourless. It was a cracking line.
What do you think about Trading Places - should this film be banned?

1. Fair enough.
2. Of course not.

Where is the consistency with the democrats J70 ?- Dan Aykroyd was poking fun at minorities by his look and mimicking the accent. Surely that is a hate crime under the left's rules?

But Ralph Northam - at the time not a politician - paints his face in 1984 now faces calls to resign from his own party.
Remember this was just one year after Dan Aykroyd did it.

This is the start of the left eating their own. Can't wait for the primaries.

1. I don't agree they're the same. Northam's was the dumb minstrel type stereotype along with a KKK guy. Ackroyd's was a character in a film disguising himself as a pot-smoking Bob Marley/Rastafarian style Jamaican.

2. Yes, I agree the left "is eating its own" here. It's a difficult situation, unprecedented, just like the fallout from #meetoo. It's hard to have consistency with an emerging problem. There's no roadmap to deal with this. The party as a whole is grappling with it while still being populated by professional politicians who have skeletons in their closet. I don't know what the way forward is. Northam is toast, that's all I know. Had he been a man about it, maybe he would have had some chance.

The point I am trying to make is that people can make the mental shift to look at Dan Aykroyd and Ralph Northam differently even though they have done exactly the same thing. People can make the decision to be offended if they want to or, more worryingly, if they are told to.

There is no roadmap for sure but throwing people immediately under the bus without proper review is dangerous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2019, 12:06:08 AM
Quote from: dec on February 07, 2019, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 05:18:20 PM
First of all I prefaced my comment with the word seemingly. I don't believe anything from anyone on face value.

But you will still post stuff you don't believe on this discussion board?

Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2019, 05:18:20 PM
Secondly......the nuances over the cloud versus the phone.....keep distracting

"the cloud versus the phone"

"Nuances"?

Are you seriously that technically illiterate?

"Keep distracting"

You mean that pointing out that what you posted is bullshit is somehow distracting? Well then maybe you should refrain from posting bullshit.

Apple were full of $hit

An Israeli tech company was able to figure out how to unlock the phone for under $1M.

And I highly doubt the Israelis had to create a "master" key that potentially endangered every IPhone of that generation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 08, 2019, 12:39:35 AM
Jeff f**king Bezos!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 08, 2019, 01:18:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2019, 12:06:08 AM
Apple were full of $hit

What shit was it that you think Apple were full of?

Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2019, 12:06:08 AM
An Israeli tech company was able to figure out how to unlock the phone for under $1M.

And how is that relevant to anything I have said

Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2019, 12:06:08 AM
And I highly doubt the Israelis had to create a "master" key that potentially endangered every IPhone of that generation

Cellebrite claim that they can break into almost any iPhone

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 08, 2019, 01:20:00 AM
Joy behar has had a blackface photo surface couldn't happen to a bigger bitch
See miss Cotez is going to eliminate airplanes and  build railways across oceans it's going to be some session from New York to Galway can't wait
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2019, 01:36:21 AM
Quote from: dec on February 08, 2019, 01:18:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2019, 12:06:08 AM
Apple were full of $hit

What shit was it that you think Apple were full of?

Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2019, 12:06:08 AM
An Israeli tech company was able to figure out how to unlock the phone for under $1M.

And how is that relevant to anything I have said

Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2019, 12:06:08 AM
And I highly doubt the Israelis had to create a "master" key that potentially endangered every IPhone of that generation

Cellebrite claim that they can break into almost any iPhone

Apple said it couldn't be done without rewriting the code that would in turn open up every single IPhone (of that model) to serious security risk. Obviously the Israelis didn't have to rewrite the code....they figured out a work around in about a week
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 08, 2019, 02:13:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2019, 01:36:21 AM
Apple said it couldn't be done without rewriting the code that would in turn open up every single IPhone (of that model) to serious security risk.

I can't work out if you are really clueless or are just pretending to be for trolling purposes.

Apple said no such thing about rewriting the code because the government never asked them to rewrite the code.

Here is the government request https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2714005/SB-Shooter-Order-Compelling-Apple-Asst-iPhone.pdf

And here is Apples response https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

Apple objected to being forced to created a new version of the OS to be installed on the iPhone that would bypass existing security.

Thankfully those judges who ruled on this and other related cases sided with Apple.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2019, 03:55:05 AM
Quote from: dec on February 08, 2019, 02:13:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2019, 01:36:21 AM
Apple said it couldn't be done without rewriting the code that would in turn open up every single IPhone (of that model) to serious security risk.

I can't work out if you are really clueless or are just pretending to be for trolling purposes.

Apple said no such thing about rewriting the code because the government never asked them to rewrite the code.

Here is the government request https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2714005/SB-Shooter-Order-Compelling-Apple-Asst-iPhone.pdf

And here is Apples response https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

Apple objected to being forced to created a new version of the OS to be installed on the iPhone that would bypass existing security.

Thankfully those judges who ruled on this and other related cases sided with Apple.

Believe whatever you want

www.cnbc.com/amp/2016/03/29/apple-vs-fbi-all-you-need-to-know.html


"At the time, Apple chief executive Tim Cook called the order "chilling" and said that it would require writing new software that would be "a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks". Cook's argument was that if the FBI could access this iPhone, nothing would stop them from doing it to many others."

I said "rewriting the code". Tom Cook said it would require "writing new software".

Again you're splitting hairs in an effort to distract.

If Apple didn't want to access the phone why couldn't they figure out a work around. The Israelis were able to figure it out in short order. Apples claim that helping the FBI would lead to the creation of a a "master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks" was flat out bull$hit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 08, 2019, 10:50:57 AM
Good to see AOC cracking a few heads in Congress good on her!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 08, 2019, 01:17:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 08, 2019, 10:50:57 AM
Good to see AOC cracking a few heads in Congress good on her!!

She's a crackhead alright. To hell with working. Just proof of who's pushing the welfare state.

Ocasio-Cortez's Green New Deal offers 'economic security' for those 'unwilling to work'

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/07/ocasio-cortezs-green-new-deal-offers-economic-security-for-those-unwilling-to-work.html

Not to mention her claim that the USA is native land and that latinos are descendents of these people so they have a right to be there.
That's the new reason for open borders.

I wonder is she from the same tribe as Elizabeth Warren?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2019, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 08, 2019, 01:17:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 08, 2019, 10:50:57 AM
Good to see AOC cracking a few heads in Congress good on her!!

She's a crackhead alright. To hell with working. Just proof of who's pushing the welfare state.

Ocasio-Cortez's Green New Deal offers 'economic security' for those 'unwilling to work'

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/07/ocasio-cortezs-green-new-deal-offers-economic-security-for-those-unwilling-to-work.html

Not to mention her claim that the USA is native land and that latinos are descendents of these people so they have a right to be there.
That's the new reason for open borders.

I wonder is she from the same tribe as Elizabeth Warren?
I listen to everyone and while some of her ideas are completely idiotic some of the things she says makes sense.

That's comment about providing economic security for those unwilling to work is going to be very problematic. I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and say she misspoke, but the Democrats need to get out in front of his very quickly

Interesting to see if the media shine a spotlight on those comments today

Edit: Seemingly she did not miss speak. Those words are in the policy document
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 08, 2019, 02:46:16 PM
Then she's got a little explaining to do.

Unless I'm of very limited imagination, I'm having a hard time seeing how one could justify a safety net for those "unwilling" to work.

I'll be shocked if that was supposed to be in there. Even the most utopian-minded, pie-in-they-sky socialist would have a hard justifying providing for someone who was idle and non-contributory by choice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 08, 2019, 03:27:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2019, 02:46:16 PM
Then she's got a little explaining to do.

Unless I'm of very limited imagination, I'm having a hard time seeing how one could justify a safety net for those "unwilling" to work.

I'll be shocked if that was supposed to be in there. Even the most utopian-minded, pie-in-they-sky socialist would have a hard justifying providing for someone who was idle and non-contributory by choice.

When I hear AOC talk I think that someone has inadvertently turned the TV over to "Keeping up with the Kardashians" and that they're talking about politics while getting their moustaches waxed.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 08, 2019, 05:58:10 PM
I can't get enough of conservative reactions to AOC, most of which look like this:

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2646/4013048109_c983dc058c_z.jpg?zz=1)

Put "AOC meme" into a Google image search and you see a big litany of memes with fake quotes and stuff she never said. She's a boon for the fake news industry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 08, 2019, 07:18:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 08, 2019, 05:58:10 PM
I can't get enough of conservative reactions to AOC, most of which look like this:

Put "AOC meme" into a Google image search and you see a big litany of memes with fake quotes and stuff she never said. She's a boon for the fake news industry.

Poor Eamonnca1
This has been a very bad weeks for democrats. No wonder the betas have been in hiding.

If anything AOC blows minds with how downright dumb she actually is and how people are agreeing with her.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 08, 2019, 07:21:35 PM
Cucks, Foxy. You're supposed to call us "beta cucks." If you're going to project your incel frustrations onto others, do try to use the correct alt-right language. It's not like getting laid is an option for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2019, 08:13:40 PM
I like the idea if the green deal, but as it's currently presented it's a pile of nonsense

High speed trains is one example. Here in Boston they've been trying to extend the commuter rail on the one of the lines (existing track) for over a decade and still it's been held up by objections. The estimated cost has gone from $935M to $3.2B
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 11, 2019, 07:47:57 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?

At some point a myth that soy consumption lowers testosterone levels in men took off. There is no actual evidence that this is true https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

But our gullible friends on the right won't let a lack of evidence stop them so now soyboy is one many insults that they throw around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2019, 08:32:23 PM
I drink almond milk. Tastes much better than cow's milk. Where does that leave ME?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 11, 2019, 08:42:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2019, 08:32:23 PM
I drink almond milk. Tastes much better than cow's milk. Where does that leave ME?

Lay off the Tide Pods man!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 11, 2019, 08:45:01 PM
Never ceases to amaze me about all the lies and quasi libellous stuff each side peddles in the US political arena.

Despite my prev dislike of trump, he's better than more or less all British politicians and he's seemingly doing a fantastic job on the US economy including employment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 11, 2019, 08:51:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2019, 08:32:23 PM
I drink almond milk. Tastes much better than cow's milk. Where does that leave ME?

Bollocks! Even the ultra pasteurised crap you get in America is much tastier than almond milk

Not to mention all the hardship your helping to cause due to water shortages  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on February 11, 2019, 09:10:55 PM
Shouldn't be any talk of drought years or water shortages this year. We're getting absolutely pounded in NC and the Sierras.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2019, 09:25:35 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 11, 2019, 08:51:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2019, 08:32:23 PM
I drink almond milk. Tastes much better than cow's milk. Where does that leave ME?

Bollocks! Even the ultra pasteurised crap you get in America is much tastier than almond milk

Not to mention all the hardship your helping to cause due to water shortages  ;)

Don't knock it til you try it. I enjoy a lash of almond milk myself from time to time.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2019, 09:25:35 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 11, 2019, 08:51:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2019, 08:32:23 PM
I drink almond milk. Tastes much better than cow's milk. Where does that leave ME?

Bollocks! Even the ultra pasteurised crap you get in America is much tastier than almond milk

Not to mention all the hardship your helping to cause due to water shortages  ;)

Don't knock it til you try it. I enjoy a lash of almond milk myself from time to time.

:o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 09:46:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2019, 08:32:23 PM
I drink almond milk. Tastes much better than cow's milk. Where does that leave ME?

Hippy  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2019, 11:11:01 PM
If you think it's funny how conservatives think your choice of milk defines you as a pinko liberal, you're going to love this one.

I was once denounced online by a conservative who labelled me as a "front-loading washing machine user." You see, in America they have top-loading and front-loading washing machines. The top loaders are more common, the front-loaders are fewfangled (even though they've been the standard in Europe for decades). Conservatives hate front-loaders because they use less water and less electricity. Or maybe it's because they look European, and hence effeminate.  Ergo, if you use a front-loader then you must care about wasted energy and wasted water, ergo you're less of a man. Real men don't bend over to put their jeans in the wash. Or something.

There's a long list of things you can do to save money and use your resources more wisely, and conservatives are quick to pounce on every one of them as a sign of weakness. These are the same kind of boys who set up their oversized pickup trucks with a special button that spews big clouds of soot out of the exhaust when they feel like it.

These people are not right in the head. Conservatism is a mental illness.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 11, 2019, 11:18:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2019, 08:32:23 PM
I drink almond milk. Tastes much better than cow's milk. Where does that leave ME?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe3FxQybi14
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2019, 11:48:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 09:46:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2019, 08:32:23 PM
I drink almond milk. Tastes much better than cow's milk. Where does that leave ME?

Hippy  :P

Leave him alone or I'll get AOC on you!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 12:21:30 AM
Ive nothing against almond milk at all, other than the fact that its called and compared to actual milk same goes for soy.


Front loading washing machines on the other hand.....  >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2019, 12:27:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2019, 11:11:01 PM
If you think it's funny how conservatives think your choice of milk defines you as a pinko liberal, you're going to love this one.

I was once denounced online by a conservative who labelled me as a "front-loading washing machine user." You see, in America they have top-loading and front-loading washing machines. The top loaders are more common, the front-loaders are fewfangled (even though they've been the standard in Europe for decades). Conservatives hate front-loaders because they use less water and less electricity. Or maybe it's because they look European, and hence effeminate.  Ergo, if you use a front-loader then you must care about wasted energy and wasted water, ergo you're less of a man. Real men don't bend over to put their jeans in the wash. Or something.

There's a long list of things you can do to save money and use your resources more wisely, and conservatives are quick to pounce on every one of them as a sign of weakness. These are the same kind of boys who set up their oversized pickup trucks with a special button that spews big clouds of soot out of the exhaust when they feel like it.

These people are not right in the head. Conservatism is a mental illness.

When we go to Ireland in the summer time , you'd need to be a graduate of MIT to figure out how to use the washing machines....... no such thing as a quick wash...minimum of an hour and a half for a wash...and as for the European dryers don't even get me going.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 12:31:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2019, 12:27:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2019, 11:11:01 PM
If you think it's funny how conservatives think your choice of milk defines you as a pinko liberal, you're going to love this one.

I was once denounced online by a conservative who labelled me as a "front-loading washing machine user." You see, in America they have top-loading and front-loading washing machines. The top loaders are more common, the front-loaders are fewfangled (even though they've been the standard in Europe for decades). Conservatives hate front-loaders because they use less water and less electricity. Or maybe it's because they look European, and hence effeminate.  Ergo, if you use a front-loader then you must care about wasted energy and wasted water, ergo you're less of a man. Real men don't bend over to put their jeans in the wash. Or something.

There's a long list of things you can do to save money and use your resources more wisely, and conservatives are quick to pounce on every one of them as a sign of weakness. These are the same kind of boys who set up their oversized pickup trucks with a special button that spews big clouds of soot out of the exhaust when they feel like it.

These people are not right in the head. Conservatism is a mental illness.

When we go to Ireland in the summer time , you'd need to be a graduate of MIT to figure out how to use the washing machines....... no such thing as a quick wash...minimum of an hour and a half for a wash...and as for the European dryers don't even get me going.

???

Aye them clothes lines are a pain in the arse right enuff

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on February 12, 2019, 01:04:28 AM
If this thread is anything to go by, I don't know how anyone could live in America.

Not singling out either side, but the constant arguing of sides must be absolutely exhausting. Is there anything that isn't picked apart on a daily basis??

Type of washing machine ffs  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2019, 01:28:54 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 12:31:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2019, 12:27:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2019, 11:11:01 PM
If you think it's funny how conservatives think your choice of milk defines you as a pinko liberal, you're going to love this one.

I was once denounced online by a conservative who labelled me as a "front-loading washing machine user." You see, in America they have top-loading and front-loading washing machines. The top loaders are more common, the front-loaders are fewfangled (even though they've been the standard in Europe for decades). Conservatives hate front-loaders because they use less water and less electricity. Or maybe it's because they look European, and hence effeminate.  Ergo, if you use a front-loader then you must care about wasted energy and wasted water, ergo you're less of a man. Real men don't bend over to put their jeans in the wash. Or something.

There's a long list of things you can do to save money and use your resources more wisely, and conservatives are quick to pounce on every one of them as a sign of weakness. These are the same kind of boys who set up their oversized pickup trucks with a special button that spews big clouds of soot out of the exhaust when they feel like it.

These people are not right in the head. Conservatism is a mental illness.

When we go to Ireland in the summer time , you'd need to be a graduate of MIT to figure out how to use the washing machines....... no such thing as a quick wash...minimum of an hour and a half for a wash...and as for the European dryers don't even get me going.

???

Aye them clothes lines are a pain in the arse right enuff

Clothes lines don't work in Mayo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2019, 01:34:48 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 12, 2019, 01:04:28 AM
If this thread is anything to go by, I don't know how anyone could live in America.

Not singling out either side, but the constant arguing of sides must be absolutely exhausting. Is there anything that isn't picked apart on a daily basis??

Type of washing machine ffs  :o

Some people will bite off their noses to spite their faces over here

I actually know someone who bought a bigger truck (thank they already had) to spite the Prius drivers in town.

I know others who didn't have guns but  who went out and bought them in response to something the Democratic governor said

And the worst of all, a relation of my wife, flat out  stopped recycling in response to stricter recycling rules brought in by their town. They even put beer bottles that have a deposit in the trash

The levels of stupidity and closed mindedness over here is mind blowing (and I'm in MA where people are pretty well educated)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 03:29:45 AM
Anyone do their taxes?
Defo eyebrow raising.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 12, 2019, 08:17:06 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 12, 2019, 01:04:28 AM
If this thread is anything to go by, I don't know how anyone could live in America.

Not singling out either side, but the constant arguing of sides must be absolutely exhausting. Is there anything that isn't picked apart on a daily basis??

Type of washing machine ffs  :o

There is no middle ground anymore. Everyone has to pick a side and defend it vigorously, whilst shooting down anything the other side says. Case in point, the democrats refusing to clap or stand during trumps state of the union mention of reducing the activity of sex traffickers...
There's plenty of cases the other way too. Social media has made things 100 times worse. It's why I left it a long time ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2019, 09:52:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 03:29:45 AM
Anyone do their taxes?
Defo eyebrow raising.

From what I can tell that's  pure spin from the media trying to make Trump look bad

The implication is that people are paying more in taxes this year, but that does not seem to be the reality. You get a refund if you over pay during the preceding year. You could very easily pay less in taxes year over year and yet have a smaller refund if you didn't change your deductions

My job brings me into daily contact with financial advisors, some of whom are CPAS. The ones who aren't CPAS would know exactly what their clients tax situation is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2019, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 03:29:45 AM
Anyone do their taxes?
Defo eyebrow raising.

Yep. Ours increased quite a bit. Ended up owing the feds, after years of nice refunds for the exact same deductions and paying extra through the year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 11:55:31 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 12, 2019, 08:17:06 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 12, 2019, 01:04:28 AM
If this thread is anything to go by, I don't know how anyone could live in America.

Not singling out either side, but the constant arguing of sides must be absolutely exhausting. Is there anything that isn't picked apart on a daily basis??

Type of washing machine ffs  :o

There is no middle ground anymore. Everyone has to pick a side and defend it vigorously, whilst shooting down anything the other side says. Case in point, the democrats refusing to clap or stand during trumps state of the union mention of reducing the activity of sex traffickers...
There's plenty of cases the other way too. Social media has made things 100 times worse. It's why I left it a long time ago.

When the democrats are standing up for some of the worst ideas ever imagined it's pretty hard not to be polarized. They have lost the plot recently on some issues which would have been deemed common sense 20 years ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TabClear on February 12, 2019, 12:08:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 12, 2019, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 03:29:45 AM
Anyone do their taxes?
Defo eyebrow raising.

Yep. Ours increased quite a bit. Ended up owing the feds, after years of nice refunds for the exact same deductions and paying extra through the year.

How does tax work in the US? Does everyone have to do a tax return and most average workers "overpay" during the year and then receive rebates for expenses or is it like the UK where the average joe pretty much pays everything through their employer?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 12, 2019, 12:25:35 PM
No more shutdown!!!!

Will be interesting to see how Trump spins this as a win when he's getting about 1/4 of what he asked for and a barrier instead of a wall. . . he'll sure try though!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 01:01:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 12, 2019, 12:25:35 PM
No more shutdown!!!!

Will be interesting to see how Trump spins this as a win when he's getting about 1/4 of what he asked for and a barrier instead of a wall. . . he'll sure try though!!!

He's starting to build the wall as he promised in his election manifesto. It's irrelevant how much it covers as he can push for more after this deal is done and campaign on continuing construction.

2020 re-election just got even more likely.

God bless President Trump.   :)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2019, 02:57:37 PM
Quote from: TabClear on February 12, 2019, 12:08:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 12, 2019, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 03:29:45 AM
Anyone do their taxes?
Defo eyebrow raising.

Yep. Ours increased quite a bit. Ended up owing the feds, after years of nice refunds for the exact same deductions and paying extra through the year.

How does tax work in the US? Does everyone have to do a tax return and most average workers "overpay" during the year and then receive rebates for expenses or is it like the UK where the average joe pretty much pays everything through their employer?

Yep, everyone has to file a return. You yourself decide how much you want to pay during the year. You can pay f**k all, and then settle up at return time, or you can overpay and get a refund.

Was much simpler in Ireland with the PAYE system, where the employer decided, week to week, how much you owed to that point in the year and withheld accordingly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?

(https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/images/soy.PNG)

Watch Cuck Central weeknights  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2019, 09:52:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 03:29:45 AM
Anyone do their taxes?
Defo eyebrow raising.

From what I can tell that's  pure spin from the media trying to make Trump look bad

The implication is that people are paying more in taxes this year, but that does not seem to be the reality. You get a refund if you over pay during the preceding year. You could very easily pay less in taxes year over year and yet have a smaller refund if you didn't change your deductions

My job brings me into daily contact with financial advisors, some of whom are CPAS. The ones who aren't CPAS would know exactly what their clients tax situation is.

Have you done your taxes yet?
I dunno about the media or CPAs but I know for sure I am defo paying more tax
Are you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2019, 04:19:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2019, 09:52:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 12, 2019, 03:29:45 AM
Anyone do their taxes?
Defo eyebrow raising.

From what I can tell that's  pure spin from the media trying to make Trump look bad

The implication is that people are paying more in taxes this year, but that does not seem to be the reality. You get a refund if you over pay during the preceding year. You could very easily pay less in taxes year over year and yet have a smaller refund if you didn't change your deductions

My job brings me into daily contact with financial advisors, some of whom are CPAS. The ones who aren't CPAS would know exactly what their clients tax situation is.

Have you done your taxes yet?
I dunno about the media or CPAs but I know for sure I am defo paying more tax
Are you?

Haven't had them done yet.....getting everything together for my CPA this weekend

For me I always had a lot of deductions for non reimbursed business expenses. Seemingly those deductions have gone away, but the standard deduction has doubled so hopefully it's a wash.

I think The threshold for AMT has changed-that's probably where I'll make out

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 12, 2019, 05:08:37 PM
Trump Russia is fake news that's official now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?

(https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/images/soy.PNG)

Watch Cuck Central weeknights  ;D

You didn't answer my question. If you're not a soyboy, what are you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?

(https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/images/soy.PNG)

Watch Cuck Central weeknights  ;D

You didn't answer my question. If you're not a soyboy, what are you?

I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 05:35:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2019, 01:34:48 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 12, 2019, 01:04:28 AM
If this thread is anything to go by, I don't know how anyone could live in America.

Not singling out either side, but the constant arguing of sides must be absolutely exhausting. Is there anything that isn't picked apart on a daily basis??

Type of washing machine ffs  :o

Some people will bite off their noses to spite their faces over here

I actually know someone who bought a bigger truck (thank they already had) to spite the Prius drivers in town.

I know others who didn't have guns but  who went out and bought them in response to something the Democratic governor said

And the worst of all, a relation of my wife, flat out  stopped recycling in response to stricter recycling rules brought in by their town. They even put beer bottles that have a deposit in the trash

The levels of stupidity and closed mindedness over here is mind blowing (and I'm in MA where people are pretty well educated)

Didn't Rush Limbaugh once celebrate Earth Day by cutting down a tree?

* quick check *

It was Glenn Beck (https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2009/0422/earth-day-glenn-beck-celebrates-by-cutting-down-trees).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 05:40:47 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 12, 2019, 01:04:28 AM
If this thread is anything to go by, I don't know how anyone could live in America.

Not singling out either side, but the constant arguing of sides must be absolutely exhausting. Is there anything that isn't picked apart on a daily basis??

Type of washing machine ffs  :o

It is utterly exhausting. Especially when conservatives embark on one of those Gish Gallops (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop) where they pack so many lies into a one paragraph statement that it would take several pages to refute them all. They overwhelm you with their lies to tire you out. Trump uses this technique all the time. His lie rate is so high that it's particularly effective for him, especially when low-information conservatives are watching.

Hmm. "Low information conservatives." That's one for the Tautologies thread.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 05:42:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

If you feel the need to state that you're an alpha male, it's a good bet that you're no alpha male.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 05:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 05:42:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

If you feel the need to state that you're an alpha male, it's a good bet that you're no alpha male.
MAGAs are losers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:58:01 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 05:42:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

If you feel the need to state that you're an alpha male, it's a good bet that you're no alpha male.

Stop being jealous about something you'll never be chum. You stick to this

(http://www.vegan-magazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/moby-vegan.jpg)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:59:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 05:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 05:42:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

If you feel the need to state that you're an alpha male, it's a good bet that you're no alpha male.
MAGAs are losers

I disagree. At the moment President Trump is winning bigly.

#Buildingthewall
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 12, 2019, 06:02:56 PM
Choking on my skinny latté at this thread.
Or maybe it's a beer?  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 06:25:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:59:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 05:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 05:42:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

If you feel the need to state that you're an alpha male, it's a good bet that you're no alpha male.
MAGAs are losers

I disagree. At the moment President Trump is winning bigly.

#Buildingthewall
Trump is nowhere near a majority
The women in Congress are pussywhipping him
his midterm fearmongering didn't work
Pelosi owns him
The economy is struggling

Other than that he is doing great 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 06:45:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 06:25:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:59:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 05:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 05:42:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

If you feel the need to state that you're an alpha male, it's a good bet that you're no alpha male.
MAGAs are losers

I disagree. At the moment President Trump is winning bigly.

#Buildingthewall
Trump is nowhere near a majority
The women in Congress are pussywhipping him
his midterm fearmongering didn't work
Pelosi owns him
The economy is struggling

Other than that he is doing great

Please tell me you mean Ocasio-Cortez. I dare you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 06:56:53 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 06:45:46 PM
Please tell me you mean Ocasio-Cortez. I dare you.

(https://slimages.macysassets.com/is/image/MCY/products/8/optimized/299348_fpx.tif?op_sharpen=1&wid=500&hei=613&fit=fit,1&$filtersm$)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 06:56:58 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 06:45:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 06:25:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:59:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 05:48:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 05:42:02 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

If you feel the need to state that you're an alpha male, it's a good bet that you're no alpha male.
MAGAs are losers

I disagree. At the moment President Trump is winning bigly.

#Buildingthewall
Trump is nowhere near a majority
The women in Congress are pussywhipping him
his midterm fearmongering didn't work
Pelosi owns him
The economy is struggling

Other than that he is doing great

Please tell me you mean Ocasio-Cortez. I dare you.
All of them

Rule no 1 in politics is never invade Afghanistan
Rule no 2 is that misogyny is f**king stupid

I was reading about Moms Demand Action. They got a few people elected to Congress and beat NRA GOP candidates in several states

https://www.newsweek.com/moms-demand-action-goes-toe-toe-nra-591773

People have had enough of bullshit thoughts and prayers and no action while Americans are murdered
Same with AIPAC. People are sick of the GOP and Dems taking cash in return for blind obedience to a foreign country
The GOP coalition is not looking very solid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2019, 07:31:43 PM
Seemingly Senate Jntelligence committee has found no evidence of collusion

If Mueller also comes up empty handed that almost guarantees Trump a second term
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:35:28 PM

John Harwood

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057

WashPost poll:

impeach Trump if he obstructed justice?
65% yes, 29% no

impeach Trump if he coordinated w/Russia?
61% yes, 33%



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 08:55:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:35:28 PM

John Harwood

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057

WashPost poll:

impeach Trump if he obstructed justice?
65% yes, 29% no

impeach Trump if he coordinated w/Russia?
61% yes, 33%

Best use for WashPost

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f5/6e/04/f56e04215bce4bc31809d438e0f9ee3a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2019, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:35:28 PM

John Harwood

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057

WashPost poll:

impeach Trump if he obstructed justice?
65% yes, 29% no

impeach Trump if he coordinated w/Russia?
61% yes, 33%


Lol-Washington Post

I'm surprised it's not higher then
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on February 12, 2019, 09:01:06 PM
Surprised Mt Rushmore hasn't had his face added.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 09:02:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 06:56:53 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 06:45:46 PM
Please tell me you mean Ocasio-Cortez. I dare you.

(https://slimages.macysassets.com/is/image/MCY/products/8/optimized/299348_fpx.tif?op_sharpen=1&wid=500&hei=613&fit=fit,1&$filtersm$)

You're knowledgeable about perfumes as well Eamonnca1? Not a surprise ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on February 12, 2019, 09:01:06 PM
Surprised Mt Rushmore hasn't had his face added.

They'll have to seriously consider after his second term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 12, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:35:28 PM

John Harwood

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057

WashPost poll:

impeach Trump if he obstructed justice?
65% yes, 29% no

impeach Trump if he coordinated w/Russia?
61% yes, 33%

It's not about collusion though really... Mueller will find something as will the committee looking into tax returns. There's no set definition of collusion but by and large people know wrong from right!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 09:04:39 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on February 12, 2019, 09:01:06 PM
Surprised Mt Rushmore hasn't had his face added.

They'll have to seriously consider after his second term.

If he has a second term, it's a good bet none of us will be around to view it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2019, 09:05:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 12, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:35:28 PM

John Harwood

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057

WashPost poll:

impeach Trump if he obstructed justice?
65% yes, 29% no

impeach Trump if he coordinated w/Russia?
61% yes, 33%

It's not about collusion though really... Mueller will find something as will the committee looking into tax returns. There's no set definition of collusion but by and large people know wrong from right!!

From most commentators I've listened to, obstruction is almost impossible to prove
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 09:06:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 12, 2019, 06:02:56 PM
Choking on my skinny latté at this thread.
Or maybe it's a beer?  :P

for your sake I hope it's a bottle of Special Brew. Don't be fooled into buying one of those girly drinks from evil social justice corporations.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2019, 09:04:39 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on February 12, 2019, 09:01:06 PM
Surprised Mt Rushmore hasn't had his face added.

They'll have to seriously consider after his second term.

If he has a second term, it's a good bet none of us will be around to view it.

Not sure what you mean but I honestly can't wait for the next democrat conspiracy theory and which mental cases in their party will take up the challenge.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 12, 2019, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 12, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:35:28 PM

John Harwood

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057

WashPost poll:

impeach Trump if he obstructed justice?
65% yes, 29% no

impeach Trump if he coordinated w/Russia?
61% yes, 33%

It's not about collusion though really... Mueller will find something as will the committee looking into tax returns. There's no set definition of collusion but by and large people know wrong from right!!
collusion is all we've heard for 2 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 12, 2019, 10:12:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 12, 2019, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 12, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:35:28 PM

John Harwood

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineWH/status/1072973071215149057

WashPost poll:

impeach Trump if he obstructed justice?
65% yes, 29% no

impeach Trump if he coordinated w/Russia?
61% yes, 33%

It's not about collusion though really... Mueller will find something as will the committee looking into tax returns. There's no set definition of collusion but by and large people know wrong from right!!
collusion is all we've heard for 2 years

From Trump mainly!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Democrats must really want Trump to get his second term.

Bob Menendez (D - NJ) now says that illegal immigrants being arrested for drunk driving is immoral and should be let go.

Then presidential hopeful Cory Booker (D - NJ)  is telling people they have to stop eating meat to save the planet and turn vegan instead.

There are 2 winning messages for you. And they still try convince you that Trump is the crazy one.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Democrats must really want Trump to get his second term.

Bob Menendez (D - NJ) now says that illegal immigrants being arrested for drunk driving is immoral and should be let go.

Then presidential hopeful Cory Booker (D - NJ)  is telling people they have to stop eating meat to save the planet and turn vegan instead.

There are 2 winning messages for you. And they still try convince you that Trump is the crazy one.

Well if grab em by the pussy is a winning message then why not the above??!!  ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 12:05:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Democrats must really want Trump to get his second term.

Bob Menendez (D - NJ) now says that illegal immigrants being arrested for drunk driving is immoral and should be let go.

Then presidential hopeful Cory Booker (D - NJ)  is telling people they have to stop eating meat to save the planet and turn vegan instead.

There are 2 winning messages for you. And they still try convince you that Trump is the crazy one.

Well if grab em by the pussy is a winning message then why not the above??!!  ;) ;)

Unless you're a beta male secretly you admire the president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 12:05:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Democrats must really want Trump to get his second term.

Bob Menendez (D - NJ) now says that illegal immigrants being arrested for drunk driving is immoral and should be let go.

Then presidential hopeful Cory Booker (D - NJ)  is telling people they have to stop eating meat to save the planet and turn vegan instead.

There are 2 winning messages for you. And they still try convince you that Trump is the crazy one.

Well if grab em by the pussy is a winning message then why not the above??!!  ;) ;)

Unless you're a beta male secretly you admire the president.

If you say so then!!  ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 12:05:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Democrats must really want Trump to get his second term.

Bob Menendez (D - NJ) now says that illegal immigrants being arrested for drunk driving is immoral and should be let go.

Then presidential hopeful Cory Booker (D - NJ)  is telling people they have to stop eating meat to save the planet and turn vegan instead.

There are 2 winning messages for you. And they still try convince you that Trump is the crazy one.

Well if grab em by the pussy is a winning message then why not the above??!!  ;) ;)

Unless you're a beta male secretly you admire the president.

If you say so then!!  ::) ::)
dolph is probably a Beto male
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 03:13:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 12:05:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Democrats must really want Trump to get his second term.

Bob Menendez (D - NJ) now says that illegal immigrants being arrested for drunk driving is immoral and should be let go.

Then presidential hopeful Cory Booker (D - NJ)  is telling people they have to stop eating meat to save the planet and turn vegan instead.

There are 2 winning messages for you. And they still try convince you that Trump is the crazy one.

Well if grab em by the pussy is a winning message then why not the above??!!  ;) ;)

Unless you're a beta male secretly you admire the president.

If you say so then!!  ::) ::)
dolph is probably a Beto male

;D
No way. I like steak and Miss Universe swimwear contents.

You're wading into that non-binary claptrap there. That's soyboy territory.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on February 13, 2019, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 03:13:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 12:05:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Democrats must really want Trump to get his second term.

Bob Menendez (D - NJ) now says that illegal immigrants being arrested for drunk driving is immoral and should be let go.

Then presidential hopeful Cory Booker (D - NJ)  is telling people they have to stop eating meat to save the planet and turn vegan instead.

There are 2 winning messages for you. And they still try convince you that Trump is the crazy one.

Well if grab em by the pussy is a winning message then why not the above??!!  ;) ;)

Unless you're a beta male secretly you admire the president.

If you say so then!!  ::) ::)
dolph is probably a Beto male

;D
No way. I like steak and Miss Universe swimwear contents.

You're wading into that non-binary claptrap there. That's soyboy territory.
Me too. Not a fan of the contest though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 03:33:30 PM
More unhinged behavior from the left...

Bloomingdales had to issue an apology for selling a T-Shirt in a store with the words "Fake News" as some reporter complained that it "delegitimizes" journalism.

When Bloomingdales apologised they were told it wasn't sincere enough!!

Feeding these mental cases only leads to even more mental behavior. They want to control what you eat, what you wear, what you say.
Insanity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 03:34:56 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 13, 2019, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 03:13:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 12:05:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Democrats must really want Trump to get his second term.

Bob Menendez (D - NJ) now says that illegal immigrants being arrested for drunk driving is immoral and should be let go.

Then presidential hopeful Cory Booker (D - NJ)  is telling people they have to stop eating meat to save the planet and turn vegan instead.

There are 2 winning messages for you. And they still try convince you that Trump is the crazy one.

Well if grab em by the pussy is a winning message then why not the above??!!  ;) ;)

Unless you're a beta male secretly you admire the president.

If you say so then!!  ::) ::)
dolph is probably a Beto male

;D
No way. I like steak and Miss Universe swimwear contents.

You're wading into that non-binary claptrap there. That's soyboy territory.
Me too. Not a fan of the contest though.

That was a genuine typo!!  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 13, 2019, 04:21:15 PM
Stand by to be triggered, Fox...

(https://cdn.abcotvs.com/dip/images/5017014_010419-cc-aoc-dancing-img.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 13, 2019, 04:22:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 12:05:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2019, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Democrats must really want Trump to get his second term.

Bob Menendez (D - NJ) now says that illegal immigrants being arrested for drunk driving is immoral and should be let go.

Then presidential hopeful Cory Booker (D - NJ)  is telling people they have to stop eating meat to save the planet and turn vegan instead.

There are 2 winning messages for you. And they still try convince you that Trump is the crazy one.

Well if grab em by the pussy is a winning message then why not the above??!!  ;) ;)

Unless you're a beta male secretly you admire the president.

If you say so then!!  ::) ::)
dolph is probably a Beto male

Nah. He feels the need to brag about how alpha he is. That can only mean one thing. He's an omega man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 04:36:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 13, 2019, 04:21:15 PM
Stand by to be triggered, Fox...

(https://cdn.abcotvs.com/dip/images/5017014_010419-cc-aoc-dancing-img.jpg)

In 10 years time

(https://pics.me.me/we-need-more-lemon-pledge-21826013.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 13, 2019, 04:55:35 PM
The effing libtards took away my polio! Bring back polio!

In Anti-Vaccination Rant, Wife Of Top Trump Official Declares: 'Bring Back Our Childhood Diseases!' (https://theguardiansofdemocracy.com/in-anti-vaccination-rant-wife-of-top-trump-official-declares-bring-back-our-childhood-diseases/?fbclid=IwAR3vprdKyVS52vaTiRoIrju_kCOw-iS0P7-aMox1bxzt0mwitEIy2aBkujo)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 13, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Was listening to Morning Joe this morning

He had a great point regarding the New Green Deal

He said that incoming freshman congresspeople always come up with some cockamamie scheme that will never go anywhere. The problem is that the declared Democratic presidential candidates tripped themselves up in a rush to sign up for it because they're afraid to get outlefted. He contrasted that with Nancy Pelosi's almost dismissive response when asked about it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 13, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Was listening to Morning Joe this morning

He had a great point regarding the New Green Deal

He said that incoming freshman congresspeople always come up with some cockamamie scheme that will never go anywhere. The problem is that the declared Democratic presidential candidates tripped themselves up in a rush to sign up for it because they're afraid to get outlefted. He contrasted that with Nancy Pelosi's almost dismissive response when asked about it

Morning Joe  :o
It's great they've all been declaring their support for that Green New Deal. Donald is going to have a ball reminding them of it over the next 2 years.

His approval rating is up again - the population is beginning to see that he is the right man for the job.
The Russia collusion story shows that democrats are lying to them and trying to smear the President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 13, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Was listening to Morning Joe this morning

He had a great point regarding the New Green Deal

He said that incoming freshman congresspeople always come up with some cockamamie scheme that will never go anywhere. The problem is that the declared Democratic presidential candidates tripped themselves up in a rush to sign up for it because they're afraid to get outlefted. He contrasted that with Nancy Pelosi's almost dismissive response when asked about it

Morning Joe  :o
It's great they've all been declaring their support for that Green New Deal. Donald is going to have a ball reminding them of it over the next 2 years.

His approval rating is up again - the population is beginning to see that he is the right man for the job.
The Russia collusion story shows that democrats are lying to them and trying to smear the President.

The GOP shafts its voters
40% of americans couldn't raise USD 400 for an medical emergency
A green new deal would generate decent jobs
Trump hasn't generated many of those
Neither does the NRA


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 06:33:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 13, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Was listening to Morning Joe this morning

He had a great point regarding the New Green Deal

He said that incoming freshman congresspeople always come up with some cockamamie scheme that will never go anywhere. The problem is that the declared Democratic presidential candidates tripped themselves up in a rush to sign up for it because they're afraid to get outlefted. He contrasted that with Nancy Pelosi's almost dismissive response when asked about it

Morning Joe  :o
It's great they've all been declaring their support for that Green New Deal. Donald is going to have a ball reminding them of it over the next 2 years.

His approval rating is up again - the population is beginning to see that he is the right man for the job.
The Russia collusion story shows that democrats are lying to them and trying to smear the President.

The GOP shafts its voters
40% of americans couldn't raise USD 400 for an medical emergency
A green new deal would generate decent jobs
Trump hasn't generated many of those
Neither does the NRA

Thank Barrack Hussein Obama and his failed policies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 13, 2019, 07:04:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 13, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Was listening to Morning Joe this morning

He had a great point regarding the New Green Deal

He said that incoming freshman congresspeople always come up with some cockamamie scheme that will never go anywhere. The problem is that the declared Democratic presidential candidates tripped themselves up in a rush to sign up for it because they're afraid to get outlefted. He contrasted that with Nancy Pelosi's almost dismissive response when asked about it

Morning Joe  :o
It's great they've all been declaring their support for that Green New Deal. Donald is going to have a ball reminding them of it over the next 2 years.

His approval rating is up again - the population is beginning to see that he is the right man for the job.
The Russia collusion story shows that democrats are lying to them and trying to smear the President.

The GOP shafts its voters
40% of americans couldn't raise USD 400 for an medical emergency
A green new deal would generate decent jobs
Trump hasn't generated many of those
Neither does the NRA

But sure who's going to want to work when the government will be looking after "those unwilling to work"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2019, 07:04:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 13, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Was listening to Morning Joe this morning

He had a great point regarding the New Green Deal

He said that incoming freshman congresspeople always come up with some cockamamie scheme that will never go anywhere. The problem is that the declared Democratic presidential candidates tripped themselves up in a rush to sign up for it because they're afraid to get outlefted. He contrasted that with Nancy Pelosi's almost dismissive response when asked about it

Morning Joe  :o
It's great they've all been declaring their support for that Green New Deal. Donald is going to have a ball reminding them of it over the next 2 years.

His approval rating is up again - the population is beginning to see that he is the right man for the job.
The Russia collusion story shows that democrats are lying to them and trying to smear the President.

The GOP shafts its voters
40% of americans couldn't raise USD 400 for an medical emergency
A green new deal would generate decent jobs
Trump hasn't generated many of those
Neither does the NRA

But sure who's going to want to work when the government will be looking after "those unwilling to work"?

Sitting on your hole, eating tofu burgers, laughing and clapping like a demented seal at Ellen on the telly from 9-5 for a six figure sum.
Thats a green new deal for you.

It's Eamonnca1's American dream come true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 13, 2019, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 13, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Was listening to Morning Joe this morning

He had a great point regarding the New Green Deal

He said that incoming freshman congresspeople always come up with some cockamamie scheme that will never go anywhere. The problem is that the declared Democratic presidential candidates tripped themselves up in a rush to sign up for it because they're afraid to get outlefted. He contrasted that with Nancy Pelosi's almost dismissive response when asked about it

Morning Joe  :o
It's great they've all been declaring their support for that Green New Deal. Donald is going to have a ball reminding them of it over the next 2 years.

His approval rating is up again - the population is beginning to see that he is the right man for the job.
The Russia collusion story shows that democrats are lying to them and trying to smear the President.

The GOP shafts its voters
40% of americans couldn't raise USD 400 for an medical emergency
A green new deal would generate decent jobs
Trump hasn't generated many of those
Neither does the NRA
New Green Deal is a joke

The country and everyone in it would go bankrupt

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2019, 10:55:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 06:20:42 PM

The GOP shafts its voters
40% of americans couldn't raise USD 400 for an medical emergency
A green new deal would generate decent jobs
Trump hasn't generated many of those
Neither does the NRA
Untrue. The NRA generates many jobs.

Undertakers, grave diggers and coffin makers, for instance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 10:57:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 13, 2019, 10:55:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 06:20:42 PM

The GOP shafts its voters
40% of americans couldn't raise USD 400 for an medical emergency
A green new deal would generate decent jobs
Trump hasn't generated many of those
Neither does the NRA
Untrue. The NRA generates many jobs.

Undertakers, grave diggers and coffin makers, for instance.

Howya Eamonn.  Still pretending I see ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2019, 06:30:40 AM


Reuters poll: 70 percent support Medicare for all, including 52 percent of Republicans.

Fox News poll: 70 percent support raising taxes on those making over $10 million a year.

Bloomberg poll: 62 percent support tuition-free college.

Kaiser Foundation poll: 92 percent support having Medicare negotiate with drug companies to lower drug prices.

Hart poll: 63 percent support $15 minimum wage.

Yale/George Mason poll: 81 percent support the Green New Deal plan.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 14, 2019, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2019, 06:30:40 AM

Yale/George Mason poll: 81 percent support the Green New Deal plan.

That was before they gave details about whats in it.
(https://vangogh.teespring.com/v3/image/YOMhpdHr-uYbHUZZhjjyM-P7MWc/480/560.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2019, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 13, 2019, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 13, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 13, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Was listening to Morning Joe this morning

He had a great point regarding the New Green Deal

He said that incoming freshman congresspeople always come up with some cockamamie scheme that will never go anywhere. The problem is that the declared Democratic presidential candidates tripped themselves up in a rush to sign up for it because they're afraid to get outlefted. He contrasted that with Nancy Pelosi's almost dismissive response when asked about it

Morning Joe  :o
It's great they've all been declaring their support for that Green New Deal. Donald is going to have a ball reminding them of it over the next 2 years.

His approval rating is up again - the population is beginning to see that he is the right man for the job.
The Russia collusion story shows that democrats are lying to them and trying to smear the President.

The GOP shafts its voters
40% of americans couldn't raise USD 400 for an medical emergency
A green new deal would generate decent jobs
Trump hasn't generated many of those
Neither does the NRA
New Green Deal is a joke

The country and everyone in it would go bankrupt
Not if Howard Schultz and Bloomberg pay for it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 14, 2019, 02:09:56 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?

(https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/images/soy.PNG)

Watch Cuck Central weeknights  ;D

You didn't answer my question. If you're not a soyboy, what are you?

I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

Hi. 2 genuine questions.

Has anyone else bar you ever called you an Alpha male?

Have you ever called anyone a soyboy to their face? (if so, what was their reaction?)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2019, 03:08:18 PM
Maybe his pals on the incel or Proudboys or whatever other support groups for the insecure/inadequate he frequents to learn this stuff.

"You go alpha male!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 14, 2019, 03:49:22 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 14, 2019, 02:09:56 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?

(https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/images/soy.PNG)

Watch Cuck Central weeknights  ;D

You didn't answer my question. If you're not a soyboy, what are you?

I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

Hi. 2 genuine questions.

Has anyone else bar you ever called you an Alpha male?

Have you ever called anyone a soyboy to their face? (if so, what was their reaction?)

yes and yes, they ran away crying.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 14, 2019, 05:08:41 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?

(https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/images/soy.PNG)

Watch Cuck Central weeknights  ;D

You didn't answer my question. If you're not a soyboy, what are you?

I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

I like God. 😂😂😂

A fictional character from a storybook.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2019, 05:27:40 PM
Economy booming

   https://www.ft.com/content/34f07196-305d-11e9-8744-e7016697f225#comments-anchor

   US retail sales unexpectedly plunged in December by the most since 2009, sending a worrying signal about a critical month for consumer spending that unsettled global markets. Treasuries soared following the data, while US stocks and the dollar turned negative. Headline retail sales dropped 1.2 per cent month-on-month, a sharp turn from November's 0.1 per cent gain, and far worse than the 0.2 per cent increase economists had pencilled in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 14, 2019, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 14, 2019, 03:49:22 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 14, 2019, 02:09:56 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?

(https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/images/soy.PNG)

Watch Cuck Central weeknights  ;D

You didn't answer my question. If you're not a soyboy, what are you?

I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

Hi. 2 genuine questions.

Has anyone else bar you ever called you an Alpha male?

Have you ever called anyone a soyboy to their face? (if so, what was their reaction?)

yes and yes, they ran away crying.

Thanks

Again, this is quite genuine.

Can I ask who called you an alpha male (or at least their relationship to you)?

And can I ask the same for who you called soyboy?

Thanks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 14, 2019, 06:34:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2019, 05:27:40 PM
Economy booming

   https://www.ft.com/content/34f07196-305d-11e9-8744-e7016697f225#comments-anchor

   US retail sales unexpectedly plunged in December by the most since 2009, sending a worrying signal about a critical month for consumer spending that unsettled global markets. Treasuries soared following the data, while US stocks and the dollar turned negative. Headline retail sales dropped 1.2 per cent month-on-month, a sharp turn from November's 0.1 per cent gain, and far worse than the 0.2 per cent increase economists had pencilled in.
keep hoping for a recession, very sick
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 14, 2019, 06:35:46 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 14, 2019, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 14, 2019, 03:49:22 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 14, 2019, 02:09:56 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?

(https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/images/soy.PNG)

Watch Cuck Central weeknights  ;D

You didn't answer my question. If you're not a soyboy, what are you?

I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

Hi. 2 genuine questions.

Has anyone else bar you ever called you an Alpha male?

Have you ever called anyone a soyboy to their face? (if so, what was their reaction?)

yes and yes, they ran away crying.

Thanks

Again, this is quite genuine.

Can I ask who called you an alpha male (or at least their relationship to you)?

And can I ask the same for who you called soyboy?

Thanks

Which agency do you work for and am I under oath?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:54:10 AM
J70-what do the locals in Queens think of Amazons decision

(I can't imagine the Union members are too happy with AOC and her cabal)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 15, 2019, 02:29:28 AM
I don't think there were going to be too many unionized jobs at amazon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 03:47:33 AM
Quote from: dec on February 15, 2019, 02:29:28 AM
I don't think there were going to be too many unionized bonds at amazon.

im talking about the construction jobs to build thq HQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 05:51:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:54:10 AM
J70-what do the locals in Queens think of Amazons decision

(I can't imagine the Union members are too happy with AOC and her cabal)

AOC is an Amazon
Might be over your head though Whitey

Believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 05:52:43 AM



https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/02/andrew-mccabe-fbi-book-excerpt-the-threat/582748/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 05:56:39 AM
Never forget that Republicans' plan for health care in this country was to throw 23 million Americans off of their health insurance, raise premiums and allow insurance companies to discriminate against patients with pre-existing conditions. The American people soundly rejected that agenda in November. What they want is clear: 70 percent of Americans, including 52 percent of Republicans, support making health care a right through Medicare for all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 06:01:26 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52347542_10155844689615178_205685567193612288_o.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=68eb9be1da806edb59ca1b65764abbfa&oe=5CDC34EE)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 06:48:47 AM
I can't wait to see Trump declaring a national emergency over the nonexistent border crisis. It just means that the next Democratic President can declare national emergencies over real issues, like gun violence, lack of health care coverage, and climate change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 15, 2019, 09:55:34 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 14, 2019, 06:35:46 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 14, 2019, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 14, 2019, 03:49:22 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 14, 2019, 02:09:56 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 12, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 12, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 11, 2019, 07:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 11, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
"Governor Northam has lost all moral authority and should resign immediately, Justin Fairfax is the leader Virginia needs now."

Joe Biden - Feb 2nd

He is indeed. PMSL. Boy the Democrats have been quiet this week - they know they've taken a hiding.
From Virginia to Trump's mega-SOTU to Occasio-Idiots cow flatulence ban. Democrats want to turn everyone into soyboys.

I take it soyboy is a bad thing? What is the opposite of being a soyboy?


A man.
It's pretty bad. Soyboys are pathetic excuses for humans.

If this bunch of nutjobs get in you'll be eating quorn and tofu for every meal. No more meat.

So I assume by your antipathy to soy, you don't use it. Which makes you a man?

(https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/images/soy.PNG)

Watch Cuck Central weeknights  ;D

You didn't answer my question. If you're not a soyboy, what are you?

I'd call myself an alpha male.
I like God, cars, guns and hot women. And GAA.

Hi. 2 genuine questions.

Has anyone else bar you ever called you an Alpha male?

Have you ever called anyone a soyboy to their face? (if so, what was their reaction?)

yes and yes, they ran away crying.

Thanks

Again, this is quite genuine.

Can I ask who called you an alpha male (or at least their relationship to you)?

And can I ask the same for who you called soyboy?

Thanks

Which agency do you work for and am I under oath?

I'm asking for myself, and of course you don't have to answer, I'm just genuinely interested.

So, could you answer the above, please?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 10:05:35 AM
The abridged Whitey and other sockpuppets

https://www.ft.com/content/a58b4414-299e-11e9-a5ab-ff8ef2b976c7

   Trump and Brexit have ended up remarkably similar. Here's why

'Anglo-American populism is a mix of wronged superpower vengeance plus buccaneering capitalism'

Simon Kuper

Simon KuperFebruary 7, 2019

Like identical twins raised in different homes, the Trump and Brexit projects have ended up remarkably similar. They were similar in their advertising in 2016 and are now similar in the way they actually work — even if the advertising isn't similar to the way they work.Both have broken down over the issue of a hard border with a neighbouring country. Both are flirting with a trade war. Neither looks able to pass any more legislation. It's common to lump all contemporary populisms together. But Anglo-American populism is a unique variant: a mixture of wronged superpower vengeance plus buccaneering capitalism. Here is the Trump-Brexit governing philosophy, as revealed in power:
Destroying the status quo might be better than the status quo. You never know until you try.

The revolution will recreate the glorious past. So there's no need to waste time planning for coming developments, such as climate change or artificial intelligence.
The future of our countries is the older people who backed the revolution.People who opposed the revolution, as well as disloyal parts of the country (London, Scotland, Puerto Rico, California, sanctuary cities) should be ignored or punished.

Ignore all critics, except fellow revolutionaries who accuse you of betraying the revolution, such as Jacob Rees-Mogg or Ann Coulter.Cabinet ministers do not need experience or expertise. So it's fine if you're on your third Brexit secretary in seven months, or if you have caretakers running the US's defence, justice and interior departments, plus the Environmental Protection Agency. Don't let anyone kid you that making a revolution is complicated.

Don't worry if government departments aren't doing their everyday work. It probably wasn't important anyway.There's no need for friends abroad. (Trump and Brexit haven't even made friends with each other.) Military alliances will only weaken you.

Weakling neighbours that we bullied in the glorious past — Mexico and Ireland — will bow down again if shouted at hard enough
.The great revolutionary project is renegotiating trade deals, even though these typically do little for services, which make up about 80 per cent of the US and British economies. You don't need to have ever negotiated a trade deal to know exactly how to do it. An inspired dealmaker can overcome any inconvenient facts on the ground.
Even while undoing existing business arrangements, the revolution's leaders must always look after their own pocketbooks and profit from those arrangements where necessary. Hence Trump's use of undocumented immigrant workers, his daughter Ivanka's Chinese trademarks, the Ireland-based investment funds of Rees-Mogg's SCM and John Redwood's advice to investors to shun Britain.

No matter how long the leaders of the revolution run the country, how much money they have or how expensive their schooling was, they can never become the elite. Journalists, academics and opposition politicians are the elite.

The people are simple and should be addressed accordingly. Always repeat the same three-word slogans — "Brexit means Brexit", "Build the wall", "Take back control" — or people may get confused.

The short-term health of the people is worth sacrificing in pursuit of the revolution. Left-behind Americans do not need health insurance or action on opioids. The benefits of a no-deal Brexit will outweigh any tiresome medical shortages.

If some people don't have food — after a no-deal, or because they haven't been paid during a government shutdown — they can always get some if they just put their minds to it. After all, the leaders of the revolution manage. Grocery stores will "work along" with penniless Americans, says Trump; Sammy Wilson of Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist party advises anyone hit by Brexit-induced food shortages to "go to the chippy"

The revolution knows better than business people what's best for business, even if the revolutionaries never worked in business or went bankrupt six times when they did. If the head of Airbus says that no-deal will hurt his company, he obviously doesn't understand the aerospace industry. Similarly, Japanese carmakers seem strangely blind to the opportunities that Brexit is opening up. And American business will eventually realise that what it really needed was a trade war with China.

Proof of the revolution's rightness is that the economic growth that continued all through the pre-revolutionary government is continuing, so far (even if it has slowed a bit in the UK, but what are you — some kind of accountant?).

There was nothing dubious about the votes that brought the revolution to power and, anyway, it all happened long ago, so anyone who bores on about it is just trying to subvert the will of the people.

Emmanuel Macron, Angela Merkel and all those faceless people in Brussels who work for Germany are ungrateful whiners who owe us a favour. They are about to go pop and disappear.
If you ever have to choose between changing the world or changing your world view, always change the world. The revolution never compromises, not even with reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 10:15:48 AM
« weakling neighbours that we bullied in the glorious past — Mexico and Ireland — will bow down again if shouted at hard enough »

Mexico


http://www.lahc.edu/classes/socialscience/history/valadez/19/sonsofmalinche.pdf

Ireland

http://irishpage.com/poems/valentin.htm
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:09:45 AM
Seafoiid

For the thousandth time I'm not a Trump supporter

I am a conservative so I would obviously agree with SOME of his policies

I am a conservative so I obviously dislike the Democrats and all the hypocrisy they represent

As Joe Scarborough said this week the Democrats have just given Trump his closing argument for 2020 through a series of unforced errors. (New Green Deal, Celebration of Third Trimester Abortion, Virginia and now Amazon)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:24:13 AM
What is Trump going to say about Virginia? He mentions blackface, and all his opponent has to do is mention Charlottesville, the alt-right, David Duke, federal law suits for discimination in housing, right wing political strongmen and so on and on.

Amazon - yes... if his opponent is AOC or Jimmy van Braemer. On the other hand, DiBlasio and, especially, Cuomo, were ardent supporters of the Amazon deal, while the majority of New Yorkers, an overwhelmingly Democratic town, also supported it.

The third trimester abortion issue... I guess, if Trump wants to run on straw man arguments and misrepresented quotes, as opposed to the real problem of how to address late term pregnancy emergencies.

Green new deal... remains to be seen, but at least AOC and her ilk are trying to do something, present a roadmap or whatever, extreme/overambitious as it might be in certain respects, rather than present the outright lies and "nothing to see here" cynicism you get from Trump and the broader conservative movement.

And the "Democratic hypocrisy"... when are you ever going to admit that politicians and politics as an enterprise is inherently replete with hypocrisy. Its the nature of the beast. They all do it. Republicans and conservatives are NOT less hypocriticial than Democrats and liberals. Its just that you don't care or notice when your side does it; for whatever reason you appear to care less about your side and its policies than about your grievances with the (in your perception) hypocrisy of the Democrats and the "lamestream" media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:48:35 AM
Wow...you really are that naive


Virginia could swing to Trump very easily without him saying a word. That opens up a wide lane for him

Amazon=job killing Democrats (he doesn't need to be running against AOC)

CHEERING third trimester abortion-

Green New Deal-JOKE (and then the lying trying to cover it up, getting some cover from the media but even they eventually called it out)

Each one of these things could conservatively swing a percentage point of voters in favor or Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:48:35 AM
Wow...you really are that naive


Virginia could swing to Trump very easily without him saying a word. That opens up a wide lane for him

Amazon=job killing Democrats (he doesn't need to be running against AOC)

CHEERING third trimester abortion-

Green New Deal-JOKE (and then the lying trying to cover it up, getting some cover from the media but even they eventually called it out)

Each one of these things could conservatively swing a percentage point of voters in favor or Trump
Whitey

Why is the Green New Deal a joke ?

Explain in 50 words if you manage that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:56:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:54:10 AM
J70-what do the locals in Queens think of Amazons decision

(I can't imagine the Union members are too happy with AOC and her cabal)

Apparently some of the unions supported it, some didn't. Construction guys obviously, while the likes of 32BJ (SEIU) wanted the jobs for the cleaners and security staff and so on.

Most people I know were happy Amazon were coming and are pissed off now they're not. Yeah, they were getting tax breaks, but they and their staff would have paid plenty too, while it would have meant plenty of business for the LIC area. On the other hand, it's already gentrifying like crazy, with expensive rentals and coops being built all along the waterfront and further in for the past five years or more, putting pressure on public infrastructure like schools and the subways, but the Amazon presence would surely have provided more funding to upgrade, despite the hysteria over the tax breaks. However, it's NYC - it's not some one-company town where the factory closed and shipped the jobs to Mexico.

Have to say I'm a little surprised at Amazon though. The polls were in their favour; DiBlasio and Cuomo all for the deal. Their hearts can't have been in it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:48:35 AM
Wow...you really are that naive


Virginia could swing to Trump very easily without him saying a word. That opens up a wide lane for him

Amazon=job killing Democrats (he doesn't need to be running against AOC)

CHEERING third trimester abortion-

Green New Deal-JOKE (and then the lying trying to cover it up, getting some cover from the media but even they eventually called it out)

Each one of these things could conservatively swing a percentage point of voters in favor or Trump

Perhaps I am naive in that a lying, misrepresenting, cynical Trump could twist those issues in his favour. I don't deny that.

What I'm saying is that, on the substance, they're fairly easily countered.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:24:13 AM
What is Trump going to say about Virginia? He mentions blackface, and all his opponent has to do is mention Charlottesville, the alt-right, David Duke, federal law suits for discimination in housing, right wing political strongmen and so on and on.

Amazon - yes... if his opponent is AOC or Jimmy van Braemer. On the other hand, DiBlasio and, especially, Cuomo, were ardent supporters of the Amazon deal, while the majority of New Yorkers, an overwhelmingly Democratic town, also supported it.

The third trimester abortion issue... I guess, if Trump wants to run on straw man arguments and misrepresented quotes, as opposed to the real problem of how to address late term pregnancy emergencies.

Green new deal... remains to be seen, but at least AOC and her ilk are trying to do something, present a roadmap or whatever, extreme/overambitious as it might be in certain respects, rather than present the outright lies and "nothing to see here" cynicism you get from Trump and the broader conservative movement.

And the "Democratic hypocrisy"... when are you ever going to admit that politicians and politics as an enterprise is inherently replete with hypocrisy. Its the nature of the beast. They all do it. Republicans and conservatives are NOT less hypocriticial than Democrats and liberals. Its just that you don't care or notice when your side does it; for whatever reason you appear to care less about your side and its policies than about your grievances with the (in your perception) hypocrisy of the Democrats and the "lamestream" media.

Cuomo lit the freedom tower pink to celebrate the late term abortion bill. There is no way to pretend this was misrepresented.

Democrats have been badly found out in the last month.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 12:29:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:56:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:54:10 AM
J70-what do the locals in Queens think of Amazons decision

(I can't imagine the Union members are too happy with AOC and her cabal)

Apparently some of the unions supported it, some didn't. Construction guys obviously, while the likes of 32BJ (SEIU) wanted the jobs for the cleaners and security staff and so on.

Most people I know were happy Amazon were coming and are pissed off now they're not. Yeah, they were getting tax breaks, but they and their staff would have paid plenty too, while it would have meant plenty of business for the LIC area. On the other hand, it's already gentrifying like crazy, with expensive rentals and coops being built all along the waterfront and further in for the past five years or more, putting pressure on public infrastructure like schools and the subways, but the Amazon presence would surely have provided more funding to upgrade, despite the hysteria over the tax breaks. However, it's NYC - it's not some one-company town where the factory closed and shipped the jobs to Mexico.

Have to say I'm a little surprised at Amazon though. The polls were in their favour; DiBlasio and Cuomo all for the deal. Their hearts can't have been in it.
Trump is finished and the Dems will win in 2020 and huge change will come with them.
Just look at the shite whitey and co post. There is no heart in it
Amazon has to think ahead . It is a parasite and the environment will not be good for parasites
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:48:35 AM
Wow...you really are that naive


Virginia could swing to Trump very easily without him saying a word. That opens up a wide lane for him

Amazon=job killing Democrats (he doesn't need to be running against AOC)

CHEERING third trimester abortion-

Green New Deal-JOKE (and then the lying trying to cover it up, getting some cover from the media but even they eventually called it out)

Each one of these things could conservatively swing a percentage point of voters in favor or Trump

Perhaps I am naive in that a lying, misrepresenting, cynical Trump could twist those issues in his favour. I don't deny that.

What I'm saying is that, on the substance, they're fairly easily countered.

When did substance ever matter?

I'd love to see Biden run and as I think he can beat Trump. As much as I disagree with her I think Warren would be a good VP candidate. The Native American problem wouldn't be as big an issue if she went as VP

All these other fvckin idiots such as Harris and Booker could very easily lose to Trump because they are out of step with mainstream America
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:00:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?
Over a manufactured crisis ?
Pull the other one

AIPAC is really scared of her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:08:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:24:13 AM
What is Trump going to say about Virginia? He mentions blackface, and all his opponent has to do is mention Charlottesville, the alt-right, David Duke, federal law suits for discimination in housing, right wing political strongmen and so on and on.

Amazon - yes... if his opponent is AOC or Jimmy van Braemer. On the other hand, DiBlasio and, especially, Cuomo, were ardent supporters of the Amazon deal, while the majority of New Yorkers, an overwhelmingly Democratic town, also supported it.

The third trimester abortion issue... I guess, if Trump wants to run on straw man arguments and misrepresented quotes, as opposed to the real problem of how to address late term pregnancy emergencies.

Green new deal... remains to be seen, but at least AOC and her ilk are trying to do something, present a roadmap or whatever, extreme/overambitious as it might be in certain respects, rather than present the outright lies and "nothing to see here" cynicism you get from Trump and the broader conservative movement.

And the "Democratic hypocrisy"... when are you ever going to admit that politicians and politics as an enterprise is inherently replete with hypocrisy. Its the nature of the beast. They all do it. Republicans and conservatives are NOT less hypocriticial than Democrats and liberals. Its just that you don't care or notice when your side does it; for whatever reason you appear to care less about your side and its policies than about your grievances with the (in your perception) hypocrisy of the Democrats and the "lamestream" media.

Cuomo lit the freedom tower pink to celebrate the late term abortion bill. There is no way to pretend this was misrepresented.

Democrats have been badly found out in the last month.

Northam's comments were misrepresented. As for the NY law, what exactly is your objection? That the health of the mother is now a consideration, when before she would have to travel out of state? Or that she cannot be charged with a crime anymore for having a third trimester abortion when her own life is not at risk?

I wish there could be a proper mature discussion of this topic.

All we get is a lot of noise and hysteria the extremes on both sides. Whereas in real life, most people object to abortion as emergency birth control but realize that sometimes pregnancies go horribly wrong, whether for the mother or the baby and that there should be health care available to humanely end the pregnancy under certain circumstances.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?

Do you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:10:24 PM
J70-should minors be allowed to have abortions without parental consent?

I think that's part of the new law

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:11:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:48:35 AM
Wow...you really are that naive


Virginia could swing to Trump very easily without him saying a word. That opens up a wide lane for him

Amazon=job killing Democrats (he doesn't need to be running against AOC)

CHEERING third trimester abortion-

Green New Deal-JOKE (and then the lying trying to cover it up, getting some cover from the media but even they eventually called it out)

Each one of these things could conservatively swing a percentage point of voters in favor or Trump

Perhaps I am naive in that a lying, misrepresenting, cynical Trump could twist those issues in his favour. I don't deny that.

What I'm saying is that, on the substance, they're fairly easily countered.

When did substance ever matter?

I'd love to see Biden run and as I think he can beat Trump. As much as I disagree with her I think Warren would be a good VP candidate. The Native American problem wouldn't be as big an issue if she went as VP

All these other fvckin idiots such as Harris and Booker could very easily lose to Trump because they are out of step with mainstream America

I'm starting to think Bernie might be the man, but he's probably too far left.

Biden... I don't know if he has the fire and balls necessary to go up against Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:10:24 PM
J70-should minors be allowed to have abortions without parental consent?

I think that's part of the new law

Hadn't heard that that was part of the law, but leaving that aside for the sake of argument...

I'm not sure. Probably no. But, then you get into the hard cases. Such as a close relative rape and so on. The law has to account for all those eventualities. And then you get into the whole "well the rape is not the baby's fault" issue. Not a black/white, right/wrong situation, IMO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?

Do you?

I don't think I'd class myself as a democrat ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?

Do you?

I don't think I'd class myself as a democrat ;)

Well, you're asking the question, so one would assume you have an opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:17:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:10:24 PM
J70-should minors be allowed to have abortions without parental consent?

I think that's part of the new law

Hadn't heard that that was part of the law, but leaving that aside for the sake of argument...

I'm not sure. Probably no. But, then you get into the hard cases. Such as a close relative rape and so on. The law has to account for all those eventualities. And then you get into the whole "well the rape is not the baby's fault" issue. Not a black/white, right/wrong situation, IMO.

Sure-but the far left and the far right both pull out these situations (hard cases)  that account for fractions of 1% of what is being discussed and use them to derail any serious debate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:20:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:17:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:10:24 PM
J70-should minors be allowed to have abortions without parental consent?

I think that's part of the new law

Hadn't heard that that was part of the law, but leaving that aside for the sake of argument...

I'm not sure. Probably no. But, then you get into the hard cases. Such as a close relative rape and so on. The law has to account for all those eventualities. And then you get into the whole "well the rape is not the baby's fault" issue. Not a black/white, right/wrong situation, IMO.

Sure-but the far left and the far right both pull out these situations (hard cases)  that account for fractions of 1% of what is being discussed and use them to derail any serious debate
So who is far left, Whitey>? someone who thinks payrises are a good idea ?
the GOP is nowhere near the centre
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:08:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:24:13 AM
What is Trump going to say about Virginia? He mentions blackface, and all his opponent has to do is mention Charlottesville, the alt-right, David Duke, federal law suits for discimination in housing, right wing political strongmen and so on and on.

Amazon - yes... if his opponent is AOC or Jimmy van Braemer. On the other hand, DiBlasio and, especially, Cuomo, were ardent supporters of the Amazon deal, while the majority of New Yorkers, an overwhelmingly Democratic town, also supported it.

The third trimester abortion issue... I guess, if Trump wants to run on straw man arguments and misrepresented quotes, as opposed to the real problem of how to address late term pregnancy emergencies.

Green new deal... remains to be seen, but at least AOC and her ilk are trying to do something, present a roadmap or whatever, extreme/overambitious as it might be in certain respects, rather than present the outright lies and "nothing to see here" cynicism you get from Trump and the broader conservative movement.

And the "Democratic hypocrisy"... when are you ever going to admit that politicians and politics as an enterprise is inherently replete with hypocrisy. Its the nature of the beast. They all do it. Republicans and conservatives are NOT less hypocriticial than Democrats and liberals. Its just that you don't care or notice when your side does it; for whatever reason you appear to care less about your side and its policies than about your grievances with the (in your perception) hypocrisy of the Democrats and the "lamestream" media.

Cuomo lit the freedom tower pink to celebrate the late term abortion bill. There is no way to pretend this was misrepresented.

Democrats have been badly found out in the last month.

Northam's comments were misrepresented. As for the NY law, what exactly is your objection? That the health of the mother is now a consideration, when before she would have to travel out of state? Or that she cannot be charged with a crime anymore for having a third trimester abortion when her own life is not at risk?

I wish there could be a proper mature discussion of this topic.

All we get is a lot of noise and hysteria the extremes on both sides. Whereas in real life, most people object to abortion as emergency birth control but realize that sometimes pregnancies go horribly wrong, whether for the mother or the baby and that there should be health care available to humanely end the pregnancy under certain circumstances.

Sorry J70 - he spoke as a arrogant man who was totally behind the idea. He was pretty unaware of the massive smackdown coming his way.
I agree it's complicated. Genuine medical grounds for sure but you know that law will be abused.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:48:35 AM
Wow...you really are that naive


Virginia could swing to Trump very easily without him saying a word. That opens up a wide lane for him

Amazon=job killing Democrats (he doesn't need to be running against AOC)

CHEERING third trimester abortion-

Green New Deal-JOKE (and then the lying trying to cover it up, getting some cover from the media but even they eventually called it out)

Each one of these things could conservatively swing a percentage point of voters in favor or Trump
Payrises will sink Trump. Even red states like payrises
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:09:45 AM
Seafoiid

For the thousandth time I'm not a Trump supporter

I am a conservative so I would obviously agree with SOME of his policies

I am a conservative so I obviously dislike the Democrats and all the hypocrisy they represent

As Joe Scarborough said this week the Democrats have just given Trump his closing argument for 2020 through a series of unforced errors. (New Green Deal, Celebration of Third Trimester Abortion, Virginia and now Amazon)
you are the Ann Coulter of the GAA board
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 15, 2019, 01:41:35 PM
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-ilhan-omar-has-sparked-panic-in-aipac-1.6935041
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:56:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:09:45 AM
Seafoiid

For the thousandth time I'm not a Trump supporter

I am a conservative so I would obviously agree with SOME of his policies

I am a conservative so I obviously dislike the Democrats and all the hypocrisy they represent

As Joe Scarborough said this week the Democrats have just given Trump his closing argument for 2020 through a series of unforced errors. (New Green Deal, Celebration of Third Trimester Abortion, Virginia and now Amazon)
you are the Ann Coulter of the GAA board

Seafoid....I know plenty of people who hate Fianna Fail and Fine Gael almost equally. 

Well, thats me, I hate the Republican and Democratic establishments almost equally, but as a "conservative", I would probably agree with more republicans ideas than Democratic ones

With that said, I agree with many tDemocratic ideas too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:57:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:08:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:24:13 AM
What is Trump going to say about Virginia? He mentions blackface, and all his opponent has to do is mention Charlottesville, the alt-right, David Duke, federal law suits for discimination in housing, right wing political strongmen and so on and on.

Amazon - yes... if his opponent is AOC or Jimmy van Braemer. On the other hand, DiBlasio and, especially, Cuomo, were ardent supporters of the Amazon deal, while the majority of New Yorkers, an overwhelmingly Democratic town, also supported it.

The third trimester abortion issue... I guess, if Trump wants to run on straw man arguments and misrepresented quotes, as opposed to the real problem of how to address late term pregnancy emergencies.

Green new deal... remains to be seen, but at least AOC and her ilk are trying to do something, present a roadmap or whatever, extreme/overambitious as it might be in certain respects, rather than present the outright lies and "nothing to see here" cynicism you get from Trump and the broader conservative movement.

And the "Democratic hypocrisy"... when are you ever going to admit that politicians and politics as an enterprise is inherently replete with hypocrisy. Its the nature of the beast. They all do it. Republicans and conservatives are NOT less hypocriticial than Democrats and liberals. Its just that you don't care or notice when your side does it; for whatever reason you appear to care less about your side and its policies than about your grievances with the (in your perception) hypocrisy of the Democrats and the "lamestream" media.

Cuomo lit the freedom tower pink to celebrate the late term abortion bill. There is no way to pretend this was misrepresented.

Democrats have been badly found out in the last month.

Northam's comments were misrepresented. As for the NY law, what exactly is your objection? That the health of the mother is now a consideration, when before she would have to travel out of state? Or that she cannot be charged with a crime anymore for having a third trimester abortion when her own life is not at risk?

I wish there could be a proper mature discussion of this topic.

All we get is a lot of noise and hysteria the extremes on both sides. Whereas in real life, most people object to abortion as emergency birth control but realize that sometimes pregnancies go horribly wrong, whether for the mother or the baby and that there should be health care available to humanely end the pregnancy under certain circumstances.

Sorry J70 - he spoke as a arrogant man who was totally behind the idea. He was pretty unaware of the massive smackdown coming his way.
I agree it's complicated. Genuine medical grounds for sure but you know that law will be abused.


He is an arrogant ass, to be sure, all the more illustrated by his tone deaf, ham- fisted, dishonest response to the blackface/klan picture on his yearbook page.. However, his comment was specifically about cases where a woman with a non-viable baby or one with severe deformities went into labour and the parents and doctors had difficult decisions to make. The backlash did not include those caveats.

Like I said, the issue is difficult and complex enough without each side trying to exaggerate and impugn the worst possible motives on the other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:59:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:56:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:09:45 AM
Seafoiid

For the thousandth time I'm not a Trump supporter

I am a conservative so I would obviously agree with SOME of his policies

I am a conservative so I obviously dislike the Democrats and all the hypocrisy they represent

As Joe Scarborough said this week the Democrats have just given Trump his closing argument for 2020 through a series of unforced errors. (New Green Deal, Celebration of Third Trimester Abortion, Virginia and now Amazon)
you are the Ann Coulter of the GAA board

Seafoid....I know plenty of people who hate Fianna Fail and Fine Gael almost equally. 

Well, thats me, I hate the Republican and Democratic establishments almost equally, but as a "conservative", I would probably agree with more republicans ideas than Democratic ones

With that said, I agree with many tDemocratic ideas too
Whitey,

I never met someone who wasn't in FF but posted thousands of FF talking points !

And I bet you can't name 10 conservative policies advocated by the GOP 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 02:39:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:59:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:56:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:09:45 AM
Seafoiid

For the thousandth time I'm not a Trump supporter

I am a conservative so I would obviously agree with SOME of his policies

I am a conservative so I obviously dislike the Democrats and all the hypocrisy they represent

As Joe Scarborough said this week the Democrats have just given Trump his closing argument for 2020 through a series of unforced errors. (New Green Deal, Celebration of Third Trimester Abortion, Virginia and now Amazon)
you are the Ann Coulter of the GAA board

Seafoid....I know plenty of people who hate Fianna Fail and Fine Gael almost equally. 

Well, thats me, I hate the Republican and Democratic establishments almost equally, but as a "conservative", I would probably agree with more republicans ideas than Democratic ones

With that said, I agree with many tDemocratic ideas too
Whitey,

I never met someone who wasn't in FF but posted thousands of FF talking points !

And I bet you can't name 10 conservative policies advocated by the GOP

Believe whatever you want-they are conservative talking points not Republican talking points

Where I would differ greatly from the Republican establishment would be on topics such as gun control, abortion and climate change
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 02:39:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:59:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:56:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 11:09:45 AM
Seafoiid

For the thousandth time I'm not a Trump supporter

I am a conservative so I would obviously agree with SOME of his policies

I am a conservative so I obviously dislike the Democrats and all the hypocrisy they represent

As Joe Scarborough said this week the Democrats have just given Trump his closing argument for 2020 through a series of unforced errors. (New Green Deal, Celebration of Third Trimester Abortion, Virginia and now Amazon)
you are the Ann Coulter of the GAA board

Seafoid....I know plenty of people who hate Fianna Fail and Fine Gael almost equally. 

Well, thats me, I hate the Republican and Democratic establishments almost equally, but as a "conservative", I would probably agree with more republicans ideas than Democratic ones

With that said, I agree with many tDemocratic ideas too
Whitey,

I never met someone who wasn't in FF but posted thousands of FF talking points !

And I bet you can't name 10 conservative policies advocated by the GOP

Believe whatever you want-they are conservative talking points not Republican talking points

Where I would differ greatly from the Republican establishment would be on topics such as gun control, abortion and climate change
Just name 10, Whitey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 03:04:11 PM
Why would I care about the GOP....Im not a Republican
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 03:09:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 03:04:11 PM
Why would I care about the GOP....Im not a Republican
You are a conservative and you post a lot about the GOP
So name 10 GOP policies you like as a conservative
It's not that hard
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 03:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?

Do you?

I don't think I'd class myself as a democrat ;)

Well, you're asking the question, so one would assume you have an opinion.

I'd have deported her a long time ago. A cancer in government.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 03:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?

Do you?

I don't think I'd class myself as a democrat ;)

Well, you're asking the question, so one would assume you have an opinion.

I'd have deported her a long time ago. A cancer in government.

O...k...

But on the specific issue at hand i.e. her supposed anti-Semitism, manifested in criticism of Israel and the influence of AIPAC?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 03:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?

Do you?

I don't think I'd class myself as a democrat ;)

Well, you're asking the question, so one would assume you have an opinion.

I'd have deported her a long time ago. A cancer in government.

O...k...

But on the specific issue at hand i.e. her supposed anti-Semitism, manifested in criticism of Israel and the influence of AIPAC?

Come on. There is nothing supposed about it.

She was fairly quick to demonise the Covington schoolkids. What sort of message does that send out about an elected official.

She seems to tweet lies then delete them afterwards once they've been read. sc**bag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 04:40:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 03:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?

Do you?

I don't think I'd class myself as a democrat ;)

Well, you're asking the question, so one would assume you have an opinion.

I'd have deported her a long time ago. A cancer in government.

O...k...

But on the specific issue at hand i.e. her supposed anti-Semitism, manifested in criticism of Israel and the influence of AIPAC?

Come on. There is nothing supposed about it.

She was fairly quick to demonise the Covington schoolkids. What sort of message does that send out about an elected official.

She seems to tweet lies then delete them afterwards once they've been read. sc**bag.

I don't like much of Israel's policies regarding the Palestinians and land theft. That makes me anti-Israel, not anti-Semitic. Many American Jews support the boycott - are they anti-Semitic?

Now of course she may veer into the more insane, conspiracy theory realm of anti-Semitism. I'm open to that argument if you want to make it.

But demonization and lies and false accusations from an elected official... heaven forbid! You, the Trump fanboy, actually have standards in that area?  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 04:42:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2019, 03:09:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 03:04:11 PM
Why would I care about the GOP....Im not a Republican
You are a conservative and you post a lot about the GOP
So name 10 GOP policies you like as a conservative
It's not that hard

I don't think they even have 10 policies and I can't be bothered looking it up, so generally I would say I'm a believer in small government, common sense regulation (as opposed to over regulation) , prudent spending and a taxation system that rewards hard work and innovation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 04:46:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 03:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?

Do you?

I don't think I'd class myself as a democrat ;)

Well, you're asking the question, so one would assume you have an opinion.

I'd have deported her a long time ago. A cancer in government.

O...k...

But on the specific issue at hand i.e. her supposed anti-Semitism, manifested in criticism of Israel and the influence of AIPAC?


It's not just Republicans who are concerned ....it's Democrats too

I just think she isn't that smart

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twincities.com/2019/02/12/mn-jewish-leaders-talked-with-ilhan-omar-about-anti-semitism-last-year-why-they-remain-frustrated/amp/

"Most of us came out of that conversation very troubled by the answers we received. I was not convinced she was going to give a balanced approach to policy in the Middle East, and I was not convinced ... where her heart is on these things.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 04:49:00 PM
What kind of leader plays golf during a national emergency?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 04:56:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 04:40:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 03:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 01:14:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
Any of you democrats think that Ilhan Omar should resign from the foreign affairs panel?

Do you?

I don't think I'd class myself as a democrat ;)

Well, you're asking the question, so one would assume you have an opinion.

I'd have deported her a long time ago. A cancer in government.

O...k...

But on the specific issue at hand i.e. her supposed anti-Semitism, manifested in criticism of Israel and the influence of AIPAC?

Come on. There is nothing supposed about it.

She was fairly quick to demonise the Covington schoolkids. What sort of message does that send out about an elected official.

She seems to tweet lies then delete them afterwards once they've been read. sc**bag.

I don't like much of Israel's policies regarding the Palestinians and land theft. That makes me anti-Israel, not anti-Semitic. Many American Jews support the boycott - are they anti-Semitic?

Now of course she may veer into the more insane, conspiracy theory realm of anti-Semitism. I'm open to that argument if you want to make it.

But demonization and lies and false accusations from an elected official... heaven forbid! You, the Trump fanboy, actually have standards in that area?  ;D

The president doesn't lie. You know that.

Speaking of Omar and liars I'm watching the Andy McCabe testimony. He's openly admitting that they plotted against Trump and were planning on removing him from office using the 25th amendment.

Surely the democrats are appalled at this revelation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2019, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 04:49:00 PM
What kind of leader plays golf during a national emergency?

A very bad one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 05:12:54 PM
What kind of leader goes to Hawaii on holidays during a shutdown

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUaaWRrWAAA2f9v.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 05:39:44 PM
The real national emergency has been going on since the tangerine twerp was elected.

(https://media2.fdncms.com/csindy/imager/u/original/18017001/cjones01112019.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 05:53:42 PM
The real national emergency has been going on since the black twerp was elected

(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/obama_treason_snake-1024x747.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 06:01:15 PM
Fast and furious? How was that a scandal? I thought guns didn't kill people, people kill people. Those bad guys were going to get their hands on guns anyway. Stop blaming the poor, harmless guns!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 06:03:11 PM
Donald J. Trump ✔
@realDonaldTrump
Repubs must not allow Pres Obama to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress.

7,218
6:36 AM - Nov 20, 2014
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 15, 2019, 06:31:58 PM
f**k me - Ben Garrison cartoons now - we've hit a new low
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 06:35:48 PM
And I don't think we've reached the bottom yet either. Fox/Dolph is a bit like Trump himself. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, it keeps getting worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 15, 2019, 06:41:56 PM
Trump was absolutely on fire today. Incredible stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 06:43:02 PM
"I didn't have to do this," he said.

Sometimes it's better to let people talk and let them make fools of themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 15, 2019, 06:47:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 06:43:02 PM
"I didn't have to do this," he said.

Sometimes it's better to let people talk and let them make fools of themselves.

It almost certainly will be blocked by the courts and which point we will hear whining about the "Deep State"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 06:56:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 06:35:48 PM
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, it keeps getting worse.

Can you stop talking about the Obama years  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 15, 2019, 07:17:34 PM
Quote from: dec on February 15, 2019, 06:47:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 06:43:02 PM
"I didn't have to do this," he said.

Sometimes it's better to let people talk and let them make fools of themselves.

It almost certainly will be blocked by the courts and which point we will hear whining about the "Deep State"

This feels different though Coulter is going spare on twitter and a lot of his supporters don't like him signing the bill at all!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 07:57:47 PM
Strange character, Coulter. I wonder if Bill Maher's been banging her for long enough to change her mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 15, 2019, 08:27:36 PM
Nice to see Jim Acosta put in his place today didn't have much to say when the angel moms gathered around him  only to say he calls us fake news , see the way these women spoke and addressed him and compare that to some unhinged loon at an anti trump rally.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2019, 08:36:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2019, 08:27:36 PM
Nice to see Jim Acosta put in his place today didn't have much to say when the angel moms gathered around him  only to say he calls us fake news , see the way these women spoke and addressed him and compare that to some unhinged loon at an anti trump rally.

Well let's hope you and the rest of the right are as amenable to that exact same logic when it comes to all the parents who have lost kids due to the insane gun ownership culture and laws you insist on.

I wonder what how the numbers compare?

Victims of mass shootings by American males compared to victims of illegal immigrants.

You think Trump will entertain THOSE parents and have THEM ambush a reporter.

Will you gain smug satisfaction from THAT?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 15, 2019, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 08:36:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2019, 08:27:36 PM
Nice to see Jim Acosta put in his place today didn't have much to say when the angel moms gathered around him  only to say he calls us fake news , see the way these women spoke and addressed him and compare that to some unhinged loon at an anti trump rally.

Well let's hope you and the rest of the right are as amenable to that exact same logic when it comes to all the parents who have lost kids due to the insane gun ownership culture and laws you insist on.

I wonder what how the numbers compare?

Victims of mass shootings by American males compared to victims of illegal immigrants.

You think Trump will entertain THOSE parents and have THEM ambush a reporter.

Will you gain smug satisfaction from THAT?
2 different causes both deserve equal attention.
Acosta is a shit stirrer who had nothing to say when approached he was found out again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 15, 2019, 09:52:21 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52571340_2346097925401803_1165227165730471936_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=6def61d5c7c58f5ed839fe9e4e90e789&oe=5CF91810)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 15, 2019, 10:00:16 PM
I hope the yanks on here are ok. National Emergency innit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2019, 12:25:07 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 15, 2019, 10:00:16 PM
I hope the yanks on here are ok. National Emergency innit.

S'okay. The President has reassured a frightened nation by taking his obese ass to his Mar-a-Lago resort for another round of golf. Can't be that serious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 16, 2019, 04:09:06 AM
Ok on a slightly different note. I know he did a one hour ramble today, but his speech is seriously, and I mean seriously slurred. That guy is not well. There is something very very strange happening in Washington. For a man that doesn't drink that is not a good sign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 16, 2019, 04:36:50 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 05:53:42 PM
The real national emergency has been going on since the black twerp was elected

(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/obama_treason_snake-1024x747.jpg)

Where do you get all that vile crap from. Do your research associates just send it to you or do you get it directly from the infowars agents in St Petersburg. You should sign up for GAAGO and you might find you have less time for disseminating your pathetic propaganda. Or maybe you could do some research for me and let me know where the Mexicans are going to invest the money they saved on the Wall. That might be an interesting opportunity for both of us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2019, 04:58:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 16, 2019, 04:09:06 AM
Ok on a slightly different note. I know he did a one hour ramble today, but his speech is seriously, and I mean seriously slurred. That guy is not well. There is something very very strange happening in Washington. For a man that doesn't drink that is not a good sign.

That constant sniffing should give you a clue as to what he's on. I think people who take that much money from the federal government should have to pass a drug test.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 16, 2019, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2019, 04:58:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 16, 2019, 04:09:06 AM
Ok on a slightly different note. I know he did a one hour ramble today, but his speech is seriously, and I mean seriously slurred. That guy is not well. There is something very very strange happening in Washington. For a man that doesn't drink that is not a good sign.

That constant sniffing should give you a clue as to what he's on. I think people who take that much money from the federal government should have to pass a drug test.

I'm not a trump man but Jesus you boys are desperate. The man doesn't drink alcohol or coffee but he does hard drugs?

Clinton got a you know what from an intern and that couldn't be kept quiet. What makes you think the president would get away with smuggling a class A drug into the white house and using it regularly without anyone leaking it??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 16, 2019, 02:28:53 PM
Where I was going is that I don't think the man is well, Eamon is on a different path
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 17, 2019, 01:19:17 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 16, 2019, 02:28:53 PM
Where I was going is that I don't think the man is well, Eamon is on a different path
eamon heading to tinfoil hat zone
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 17, 2019, 09:13:39 PM
Quote from: heganboy on February 16, 2019, 02:28:53 PM
Where I was going is that I don't think the man is well, Eamon is on a different planet

You're not wrong there  ;D

Democrat loving making up stories and expect sane people to believe them.
Hillarys email server, Bengazi, Obamas birth cert. It goes on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on February 18, 2019, 03:40:55 AM
Dolph you are what is known in Armagh as a moonbeam
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 11:28:09 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 16, 2019, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2019, 04:58:49 AM
Quote from: heganboy on February 16, 2019, 04:09:06 AM
Ok on a slightly different note. I know he did a one hour ramble today, but his speech is seriously, and I mean seriously slurred. That guy is not well. There is something very very strange happening in Washington. For a man that doesn't drink that is not a good sign.

That constant sniffing should give you a clue as to what he's on. I think people who take that much money from the federal government should have to pass a drug test.

I'm not a trump man but Jesus you boys are desperate. The man doesn't drink alcohol or coffee but he does hard drugs?

Clinton got a you know what from an intern and that couldn't be kept quiet. What makes you think the president would get away with smuggling a class A drug into the white house and using it regularly without anyone leaking it??

It's another pathetic attempt to convince the public Trump is mentally unfit for office so they can justify invoking the 25th amendment.
Lap dog Eamonnca1 (a.k.a. Sid Waddell) is just bleating out the party line like the repeater he is.
They will lie and lie again to your face.

Rod Rosenstein is on the hook for mentioning wearing a wire while in President Trumps company according to Andy McCabe. They are trying to spin it that he was doing this as a patriotic act so he will get off.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 11:42:56 AM
Don Lemon can walk back some of his comments about who the most dangerous people in America are

(https://kake.images.worldnow.com/images/18124368_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&width=800&lastEditedDate=20190216181204)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on February 18, 2019, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 11:42:56 AM
Don Lemon can walk back some of his comments about who the most dangerous people in America are

(https://kake.images.worldnow.com/images/18124368_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&width=800&lastEditedDate=20190216181204)


Thoughts and prayers!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2019, 12:05:14 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 11:42:56 AM
Don Lemon can walk back some of his comments about who the most dangerous people in America are

(https://kake.images.worldnow.com/images/18124368_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&width=800&lastEditedDate=20190216181204)

Time to leave foxy.

Black folks are out to get you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2019, 12:37:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2019, 12:05:14 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 11:42:56 AM
Don Lemon can walk back some of his comments about who the most dangerous people in America are

(https://kake.images.worldnow.com/images/18124368_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&width=800&lastEditedDate=20190216181204)

Time to leave foxy.

Black folks are out to get you.
and women

American women are 16x more likely to die by gunfire than women in Europe
Misogyny is weaponised by the NRA

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 01:27:22 PM
Taken from another thread

Quote from: Saffrongael on February 17, 2019, 12:58:37 PM
Jussie Smollett 'paid Nigerian brothers to attack him'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47269827

So another Hollywood type resorted to absolute lies to make a story about trump supporters attacking him and virtue signal his way up the leaderboard.

The news networks carried the story and some democrat senators were straight on the case to yet again take a swipe at republicans. I won't expect they will apologise and call for Mr Smollett to go to jail, where he actually should be for telling such lies.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 18, 2019, 02:02:32 PM
The issue I have is that anyone who even dared question Smolletts story was accused of participating in a modern day lynching by the beautiful people.

Think about it for a moment. 2 Donald Trump supporters roaming the streets of Chicago at 2 am on a night when it  was -20 degrees. They somehow just happened to have  a noose and a bottle of bleach when they happened to run into an actor that most people had never heard of, and recognized him as "that n1&&er f@bbot from Empire. ". When interviewed an hour or so later Smollett was still wearing the noose.

The whole thing was a joke
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 18, 2019, 02:08:32 PM
With regard to Trump and Class A's - apparently crushed up Adderall is his poison of choice - ironic that a President who has completely betrayed all the promises he made about opioids might be himself abusing a prescription medicine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 16, 2019, 04:36:50 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 05:53:42 PM
The real national emergency has been going on since the black twerp was elected

(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/obama_treason_snake-1024x747.jpg)

Where do you get all that vile crap from. Do your research associates just send it to you or do you get it directly from the infowars agents in St Petersburg. You should sign up for GAAGO and you might find you have less time for disseminating your pathetic propaganda. Or maybe you could do some research for me and let me know where the Mexicans are going to invest the money they saved on the Wall. That might be an interesting opportunity for both of us.

I work for WikiLeaks and Vladamir Putin  ;D

Democracy dies in darkness LOL. Of course none of those items in the Obama picture were true, right liberals?  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2019, 03:11:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 18, 2019, 02:02:32 PM
The issue I have is that anyone who even dared question Smolletts story was accused of participating in a modern day lynching by the beautiful people.

Think about it for a moment. 2 Donald Trump supporters roaming the streets of Chicago at 2 am on a night when it  was -20 degrees. They somehow just happened to have  a noose and a bottle of bleach when they happened to run into an actor that most people had never heard of, and recognized him as "that n1&&er f@bbot from Empire. ". When interviewed an hour or so later Smollett was still wearing the noose.

The whole thing was a joke

All sides get up in this shit. The right with their false flags and utter denial that anyone on their side is capable of violence or other acts borne out of bigotry (just think back a couple of months to the headtheball down in Florida shipping the letter bombs to Dem leaders the week before the election). The left with their do-not-dare-question anyone who claims to be a victim of such an act.

It would be nice if people would wait a minute for investigations to be conducted (or even started) by the authorities before piling on, from whatever perspective, with little information to go on.

But, this is the age of twitter and who can be more outraged. Then, 24 hours later, they've all moved to the next story.

I'd never heard of Smolletts before this either. If it is true it was a set-up by himself, his career is over. And he should face the full force of the law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2019, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 16, 2019, 04:36:50 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 05:53:42 PM
The real national emergency has been going on since the black twerp was elected

(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/obama_treason_snake-1024x747.jpg)

Where do you get all that vile crap from. Do your research associates just send it to you or do you get it directly from the infowars agents in St Petersburg. You should sign up for GAAGO and you might find you have less time for disseminating your pathetic propaganda. Or maybe you could do some research for me and let me know where the Mexicans are going to invest the money they saved on the Wall. That might be an interesting opportunity for both of us.

I work for WikiLeaks and Vladamir Putin  ;D

Democracy dies in darkness LOL. Of course none of those items in the Obama picture were true, right liberals?  ;)

"Benghazi" compared to 75,000 dead by gunshot since 1.1.16
"Politicized FBI" compared to sacking Comey and McCabe on obstruction
"85 mn on 29 vacations" compared to trump playing golf for over 230 days since 1.1.16
"Fake birth cert" compared to trump's election promises
"abuse of veterans" compared to insulting the military
" Doubled the debt " compared to $1tn in tax cuts . GOP is no longer fiscally conservative
"Obamacare" compared to 70% support for a new healthcare system
"Hillary's illegal server" vs colluding with Russia

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 18, 2019, 05:24:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 18, 2019, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 16, 2019, 04:36:50 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 05:53:42 PM
The real national emergency has been going on since the black twerp was elected

(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/obama_treason_snake-1024x747.jpg)

Where do you get all that vile crap from. Do your research associates just send it to you or do you get it directly from the infowars agents in St Petersburg. You should sign up for GAAGO and you might find you have less time for disseminating your pathetic propaganda. Or maybe you could do some research for me and let me know where the Mexicans are going to invest the money they saved on the Wall. That might be an interesting opportunity for both of us.

I work for WikiLeaks and Vladamir Putin  ;D

Democracy dies in darkness LOL. Of course none of those items in the Obama picture were true, right liberals?  ;)

"Benghazi" compared to 75,000 dead by gunshot since 1.1.16
"Politicized FBI" compared to sacking Comey and McCabe on obstruction
"85 mn on 29 vacations" compared to trump playing golf for over 230 days since 1.1.16
"Fake birth cert" compared to trump's election promises
"abuse of veterans" compared to insulting the military
" Doubled the debt " compared to $1tn in tax cuts . GOP is no longer fiscally conservative
"Obamacare" compared to 70% support for a new healthcare system
"Hillary's illegal server" vs colluding with Russia

Did Trump's own daughter not send classified emails from a non protected server? If Obama said what Trump said when meeting Putin he'd have being lynched. Christie even recently said that Trump is held to lower standards than all his predecessors and he's Republican.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 18, 2019, 05:43:43 PM
No surprise to see the forum's resident racist in chief portraying a black president as sub human.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 06:34:51 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSudgi3CR46JlIS3LPS6S-4NbnJ0Dqa7caq2M7cLTWteQcOGFel)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 18, 2019, 06:55:43 PM
There is just pure racism going on in this forum now and the constant reference to someone's skin colour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 18, 2019, 06:55:43 PM
There is just pure racism going on in this forum now and the constant reference to someone's skin colour.

I agree. Eamonnca1 should lay off referring to the president as Orange.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 18, 2019, 07:07:02 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 18, 2019, 06:55:43 PM
There is just pure racism going on in this forum now and the constant reference to someone's skin colour.
Interesting that on a GAA forum, the poster in question hasn't made a single post on a GAA-related matter.

I'd hate to speculate that said poster is only on here to engage in shameless far right trolling, but said poster is definitely only here to engage in shameless far right trolling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 07:08:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 18, 2019, 07:07:02 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 18, 2019, 06:55:43 PM
There is just pure racism going on in this forum now and the constant reference to someone's skin colour.
Interesting that on a GAA forum, the poster in question hasn't made a single post on a GAA-related matter.

I'd hate to speculate that said poster is only on here to engage in shameless far right trolling, but said poster is definitely only here to engage in shameless far right trolling.

Eamonnca1 - I see you are still posting as Sid Waddell. Nice little trick to reinforce your points.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2019, 07:12:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 18, 2019, 07:07:02 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 18, 2019, 06:55:43 PM
There is just pure racism going on in this forum now and the constant reference to someone's skin colour.
Interesting that on a GAA forum, the poster in question hasn't made a single post on a GAA-related matter.

I'd hate to speculate that said poster is only on here to engage in shameless far right trolling, but said poster is definitely only here to engage in shameless far right trolling.

And you keep indulging him ...... ignore him and he'll get bored
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 18, 2019, 10:34:31 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 16, 2019, 04:36:50 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 15, 2019, 05:53:42 PM
The real national emergency has been going on since the black twerp was elected

(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/obama_treason_snake-1024x747.jpg)

Where do you get all that vile crap from. Do your research associates just send it to you or do you get it directly from the infowars agents in St Petersburg. You should sign up for GAAGO and you might find you have less time for disseminating your pathetic propaganda. Or maybe you could do some research for me and let me know where the Mexicans are going to invest the money they saved on the Wall. That might be an interesting opportunity for both of us.

I work for WikiLeaks and Vladamir Putin  ;D

Democracy dies in darkness LOL. Of course none of those items in the Obama picture were true, right liberals?  ;)

Most of that is downright wrong; the rest is exaggerated to the extreme. All conjured up to create a false equivalence to the tsunami of lies coming out of the Infowars/Breitbart.
Go wind your neck in. At best you are a duped disingenuous right wing zealot; I cannot bring myself to tag you in print with the label you deserve.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 18, 2019, 10:35:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 18, 2019, 07:12:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 18, 2019, 07:07:02 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 18, 2019, 06:55:43 PM
There is just pure racism going on in this forum now and the constant reference to someone's skin colour.
Interesting that on a GAA forum, the poster in question hasn't made a single post on a GAA-related matter.

I'd hate to speculate that said poster is only on here to engage in shameless far right trolling, but said poster is definitely only here to engage in shameless far right trolling.

And you keep indulging him ...... ignore him and he'll get bored

Gabe: that's good advice. I should have taken 😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 18, 2019, 10:58:07 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 18, 2019, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 18, 2019, 06:55:43 PM
There is just pure racism going on in this forum now and the constant reference to someone's skin colour.

I agree. Eamonnca1 should lay off referring to the president as Orange.

He's referring to his make-up and ronseal colour not his skin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on February 19, 2019, 08:14:21 AM
Combat 18 where 1 = A and 8 = H as in Adolph Hitler
1488 where 8 = H as in Heil Hitler
Dolph1 where 1 = A as in A Dolph,


You got to give it to the 4Chan crowd, they are nothing if not consistent.

References to Barrack Hussein Obama bring back the whiff of Foxy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 19, 2019, 10:50:51 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 19, 2019, 08:14:21 AM
Combat 18 where 1 = A and 8 = H as in Adolph Hitler
1488 where 8 = H as in Heil Hitler
Dolph1 where 1 = A as in A Dolph,


You got to give it to the 4Chan crowd, they are nothing if not consistent.

References to Barrack Hussein Obama bring back the whiff of Foxy.


Leo =  Leon Trotsky M = Mad C= Communist

We can all play that stupid game. Cop on.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 19, 2019, 11:06:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2019, 03:11:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 18, 2019, 02:02:32 PM
The issue I have is that anyone who even dared question Smolletts story was accused of participating in a modern day lynching by the beautiful people.

Think about it for a moment. 2 Donald Trump supporters roaming the streets of Chicago at 2 am on a night when it  was -20 degrees. They somehow just happened to have  a noose and a bottle of bleach when they happened to run into an actor that most people had never heard of, and recognized him as "that n1&&er f@bbot from Empire. ". When interviewed an hour or so later Smollett was still wearing the noose.

The whole thing was a joke

All sides get up in this shit. The right with their false flags and utter denial that anyone on their side is capable of violence or other acts borne out of bigotry (just think back a couple of months to the headtheball down in Florida shipping the letter bombs to Dem leaders the week before the election). The left with their do-not-dare-question anyone who claims to be a victim of such an act.

It would be nice if people would wait a minute for investigations to be conducted (or even started) by the authorities before piling on, from whatever perspective, with little information to go on.

But, this is the age of twitter and who can be more outraged. Then, 24 hours later, they've all moved to the next story.

I'd never heard of Smolletts before this either. If it is true it was a set-up by himself, his career is over. And he should face the full force of the law.

The media were so quick to jump on the story that was provided by Smollett himself. His description of the event and the people who did it allowed for immediate condemnation of President Trump and his supporters.

The damage from allegations cannot be undone. Smollett himself should come clean and apologise. If he is found guilty he should also do some jail time for perpetuating a supposed hate crime which he orchestrated himself. Each time there is a high profile case like this or like Tawana Brawley it damages the country.

I expect more reported MAGA related hate crimes escalating over the next two years and most of them will be bogus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 19, 2019, 01:39:54 PM
Bernie Sanders is officially throwing his hat in the ring again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 19, 2019, 02:14:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2019, 11:56:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2019, 01:54:10 AM
J70-what do the locals in Queens think of Amazons decision

(I can't imagine the Union members are too happy with AOC and her cabal)

Apparently some of the unions supported it, some didn't. Construction guys obviously, while the likes of 32BJ (SEIU) wanted the jobs for the cleaners and security staff and so on.

Most people I know were happy Amazon were coming and are pissed off now they're not. Yeah, they were getting tax breaks, but they and their staff would have paid plenty too, while it would have meant plenty of business for the LIC area. On the other hand, it's already gentrifying like crazy, with expensive rentals and coops being built all along the waterfront and further in for the past five years or more, putting pressure on public infrastructure like schools and the subways, but the Amazon presence would surely have provided more funding to upgrade, despite the hysteria over the tax breaks. However, it's NYC - it's not some one-company town where the factory closed and shipped the jobs to Mexico.

Have to say I'm a little surprised at Amazon though. The polls were in their favour; DiBlasio and Cuomo all for the deal. Their hearts can't have been in it.

Morning Joe (Scaborough) goes after Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Wow.
Even Donnie Douche has a go at her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=832TWY5fU3o

The boys better get ready for a twitter storm of irate AOC fans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 19, 2019, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 19, 2019, 01:39:54 PM
Bernie Sanders is officially throwing his hat in the ring again.

At least Bernie is actually genuine about his position.
The rest of them are all copying his 2016 platform and might even out-left him.

This primary is going to be so much fun. I can't wait to hear Gillibrand speak off the cuff. Dumb as a bag of hammers.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 19, 2019, 04:34:43 PM
I'm going to have to give this whole social media thing a break until after the election.

Already got into 2 spats in Facebook for having the audacity to question the positions of some of the Democratic candidates

3 predictions

Mueller will come up with very little on Trump (but the Dems will try and spin it)

Democratic primary will push many of their viable candidates further left than they are comfortable with

General election will be much tighter than many predict. I think Trump will lose, but not in a landslide

Talk to you all in November 2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 19, 2019, 04:47:48 PM
Say it aint so!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 19, 2019, 04:51:54 PM
Will you want to watch the Dems. try to do the thing they think their electoral base want them to do (ditch the candidate who thinks for themselves). 

We need all differing opinions the board.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 19, 2019, 05:10:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 19, 2019, 04:34:43 PM
I'm going to have to give this whole social media thing a break until after the election.

Already got into 2 spats in Facebook for having the audacity to question the positions of some of the Democratic candidates

3 predictions

Mueller will come up with very little on Trump (but the Dems will try and spin it)

Democratic primary will push many of their viable candidates further left than they are comfortable with

General election will be much tighter than many predict. I think Trump will lose, but not in a landslide

Talk to you all in November 2020

Good luck Whitey. Maybe catch up with you for some celebratory drinkies for the 2nd term of Donald J. Trump next year
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on February 19, 2019, 08:24:58 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/alabama-newspaper-editor-calls-for-the-ku-klux-klan-to-clean-out-dc/ar-BBTNQjH?li=BBoPWjQ

Making America great again😳
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 19, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
What is it with America politics where a bunch of old foggies regularly  make a run for president.. These people should be long retired. And younger vibrant persons running for president.. That clown Trump incoherent at the best of times and another retiree running things is the last thing America needs. after Coco the clown is voted out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2019, 10:11:09 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 19, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
What is it with America politics where a bunch of old foggies regularly  make a run for president.. These people should be long retired. And younger vibrant persons running for president.. That clown Trump incoherent at the best of times and another retiree running things is the last thing America needs. after Coco the clown is voted out.

It's America. It's a very fucked up place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 19, 2019, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 19, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
What is it with America politics where a bunch of old foggies regularly  make a run for president.. These people should be long retired. And younger vibrant persons running for president.. That clown Trump incoherent at the best of times and another retiree running things is the last thing America needs. after Coco the clown is voted out.
incoherent is right
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 20, 2019, 09:06:14 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 19, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
What is it with America politics where a bunch of old foggies regularly  make a run for president.. These people should be long retired. And younger vibrant persons running for president..

Funnily enough, I'd completely disagree with that.

I think if I'd my way, only people over the age of 60 would be allowed to run a country.

Its only at that age that someone would become sufficiently experienced across a wide range of areas that they would be qualified to run a country. (That is, if I had my way of replacing "representative" "democracy" - which is neither representative or democratic.)

[In case you think I'm some old timer; I'm 37.]

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 19, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
That clown Trump incoherent at the best of times and another retiree running things is the last thing America needs. after Coco the clown is voted out.

Trump is an anomaly to most systems. Unfortunately he is a somewhat inevitable result of the degeneration of US politics away from facts and into perception completely unrelated to events.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on February 20, 2019, 11:04:15 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 20, 2019, 09:06:14 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 19, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
What is it with America politics where a bunch of old foggies regularly  make a run for president.. These people should be long retired. And younger vibrant persons running for president..

Funnily enough, I'd completely disagree with that.

I think if I'd my way, only people over the age of 60 would be allowed to run a country.

Its only at that age that someone would become sufficiently experienced across a wide range of areas that they would be qualified to run a country. (That is, if I had my way of replacing "representative" "democracy" - which is neither representative or democratic.)

[In case you think I'm some old timer; I'm 37.]

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 19, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
That clown Trump incoherent at the best of times and another retiree running things is the last thing America needs. after Coco the clown is voted out.

Trump is an anomaly to most systems. Unfortunately he is a somewhat inevitable result of the degeneration of US politics away from facts and into perception completely unrelated to events.

Why 60? Why not 50? or 57? or 63?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2019, 11:10:45 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 19, 2019, 10:50:51 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 19, 2019, 08:14:21 AM
Combat 18 where 1 = A and 8 = H as in Adolph Hitler
1488 where 8 = H as in Heil Hitler
Dolph1 where 1 = A as in A Dolph,


You got to give it to the 4Chan crowd, they are nothing if not consistent.

References to Barrack Hussein Obama bring back the whiff of Foxy.


Leo =  Leon Trotsky M = Mad C= Communist

We can all play that stupid game. Cop on.

Nice try. I'm quite sure Leo didn't choose his own name. And I'm quite sure your mother didn't name you Dolph1.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 20, 2019, 03:59:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 20, 2019, 11:04:15 AM
Why 60? Why not 50? or 57? or 63?

Its not the age that would be the qualification, but the wealth and depth of experience accrued.

I don't see how anyone under the age of 60 would be able to work in enough fields for enough time to be sufficiently experienced unless they explicitly set themselves the goal of doing so straight out of leaving the education system.

So, there might be someone younger that is suitable for the role - in which case that is absolutely fine with me. But the chances are it'd be unlikely.

[As your probably realising by now - I'm not an advocate of representative democracy.]


Look at it this way - in an ideal world you want the best people to be running the country. There are what, ~500 MPs in a population of 80million, so your seeking out the top ~0.001%.

There is virtually no way anyone under the age of 40 can be in the top 0.001% (that is 1 in 10,000) of people for having the best mix of intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. Under 50, very unlikely. Between 50 and 60, increasingly realistic. Above 60 is where I think you are going to find most of your best selection.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on February 20, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 20, 2019, 03:59:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 20, 2019, 11:04:15 AM
Why 60? Why not 50? or 57? or 63?

Its not the age that would be the qualification, but the wealth and depth of experience accrued.

I don't see how anyone under the age of 60 would be able to work in enough fields for enough time to be sufficiently experienced unless they explicitly set themselves the goal of doing so straight out of leaving the education system.

So, there might be someone younger that is suitable for the role - in which case that is absolutely fine with me. But the chances are it'd be unlikely.

[As your probably realising by now - I'm not an advocate of representative democracy.]


Look at it this way - in an ideal world you want the best people to be running the country. There are what, ~500 MPs in a population of 80million, so your seeking out the top ~0.001%.

There is virtually no way anyone under the age of 40 can be in the top 0.001% (that is 1 in 10,000) of people for having the best mix of intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. Under 50, very unlikely. Between 50 and 60, increasingly realistic. Above 60 is where I think you are going to find most of your best selection.

The over 60's have a much smaller stake in the future which could lead to short term populism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on February 20, 2019, 04:31:20 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 20, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 20, 2019, 03:59:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 20, 2019, 11:04:15 AM
Why 60? Why not 50? or 57? or 63?

Its not the age that would be the qualification, but the wealth and depth of experience accrued.

I don't see how anyone under the age of 60 would be able to work in enough fields for enough time to be sufficiently experienced unless they explicitly set themselves the goal of doing so straight out of leaving the education system.

So, there might be someone younger that is suitable for the role - in which case that is absolutely fine with me. But the chances are it'd be unlikely.

[As your probably realising by now - I'm not an advocate of representative democracy.]


Look at it this way - in an ideal world you want the best people to be running the country. There are what, ~500 MPs in a population of 80million, so your seeking out the top ~0.001%.

There is virtually no way anyone under the age of 40 can be in the top 0.001% (that is 1 in 10,000) of people for having the best mix of intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. Under 50, very unlikely. Between 50 and 60, increasingly realistic. Above 60 is where I think you are going to find most of your best selection.

The over 60's have a much smaller stake in the future which could lead to short term populism.

Over 60s tend to be racists who smell of piss which can explain why the youth tend to hate them. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 20, 2019, 05:02:16 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 20, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 20, 2019, 03:59:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 20, 2019, 11:04:15 AM
Why 60? Why not 50? or 57? or 63?

Its not the age that would be the qualification, but the wealth and depth of experience accrued.

I don't see how anyone under the age of 60 would be able to work in enough fields for enough time to be sufficiently experienced unless they explicitly set themselves the goal of doing so straight out of leaving the education system.

So, there might be someone younger that is suitable for the role - in which case that is absolutely fine with me. But the chances are it'd be unlikely.

[As your probably realising by now - I'm not an advocate of representative democracy.]


Look at it this way - in an ideal world you want the best people to be running the country. There are what, ~500 MPs in a population of 80million, so your seeking out the top ~0.001%.

There is virtually no way anyone under the age of 40 can be in the top 0.001% (that is 1 in 10,000) of people for having the best mix of intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. Under 50, very unlikely. Between 50 and 60, increasingly realistic. Above 60 is where I think you are going to find most of your best selection.

The over 60's have a much smaller stake in the future which could lead to short term populism.

Morons like Cortez in their 20's could potentially have a 50 year career.
That needs to be capped for everyone's sake.

God forbid what sort of country the USA will be if Omar is around for that length of time. We'll probably be executed long before she finishes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 20, 2019, 05:16:38 PM
Could be a more-hands on President than Bill Clinton.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81Sdhwt%2BmwL._UL1500_.jpg?fifu)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on February 20, 2019, 05:31:49 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 20, 2019, 05:16:38 PM
Could be a more-hands on President than Bill Clinton.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81Sdhwt%2BmwL._UL1500_.jpg?fifu)

Sure you have to be a rapist to get elected in US. It is a pre-requisite apparently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 20, 2019, 05:38:34 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 20, 2019, 04:26:51 PMThe over 60's have a much smaller stake in the future which could lead to short term populism.

Its a valid point; however I believe in the subsection of over 60s that would be suitably qualified for the role, you'd tend to find those people have grown out of being worried about the small things (like gaining personal wealth) and are more philanthropic in nature as they know they are personally OK for the rest of their life.

Like say Bill Gates - took no prisoners when in charge of Microsoft. But now, no longer interested in accruing more wealth - instead looking to better the world.


Trailer talks about over 60s being racists as a reason - which completely misses the kind of person who I'd be looking at to lead a country. Its not some f**ker from eton who is still reliving the great war when good old blighty showed the hun who was boss - its gonna be someone who has ran a company (well) with annual turnovers in the millions, whose employees were delighted with the work they did as boss, who has worked with and in many countries, is considered a world leader in their chosen field but yet a knowledgeable soundbar across a broad spectrum of issues.

I'm not talking about a f**king politican. Anyone who applied for the job would be barred from having it. Instead a panel made up of leading figures across industry, academia and civics would draw up a shortlist for a cabinet, then go approach and interview potentials who would be willing to take on the task for a set period of (say) 4 years. The cabinet would then be formed from folks who are experts in the respective fields of the cabinet.

The public would be asked via polls every 4 years what they wanted:
1. increased/decreased taxes
2. increased/decreased proportion of spend on each of following areas:
(a) healthcare
(b) civics
(c) defence
(d) education
(e) foreign aid
(f) environment
(g) etc
(h) etc

The cabinet would then do their level best to deliver on what the people want. If the people don't want to pay any taxes, then they will get the reduction in quality of services they ask for.


It'd be a system of government that would deliver long term stability, less populism and actually put people qualified for the role into government. What the f**k does some tory c**t from eton who has "read history" know about delivering healthcare? Or transport networks? Or industry development?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 20, 2019, 10:27:01 PM
You OK there Adolph your boy Tucker took a hiding last night... this is brilliant!!

https://twitter.com/jordanuhl/status/1098282958828593152?s=21
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 21, 2019, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 20, 2019, 10:27:01 PM
You OK there Adolph your boy Tucker took a hiding last night... this is brilliant!!

https://twitter.com/jordanuhl/status/1098282958828593152?s=21
Who is Adolph?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 21, 2019, 10:50:36 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 21, 2019, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 20, 2019, 10:27:01 PM
You OK there Adolph your boy Tucker took a hiding last night... this is brilliant!!

https://twitter.com/jordanuhl/status/1098282958828593152?s=21
Who is Adolph?

This douchebag!!!

Quote from: Dolph1 on February 19, 2019, 06:00:42 PM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on February 15, 2019, 08:37:41 PM
Kap and the NFL settle out of court, how much you think he's getting? has to be close to 100 milly i would think.

Unreal that he's getting any money for not being good enough to start at a team.

His actions made him toxic. If I acted the c*** at work I don't expect that my employers would want keep me and I wouldn't expect to get a huge payoff from other companies who refused to hire me because of my reputation.

There is only one reason they are giving him money and it's not for his skills.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 21, 2019, 06:39:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 21, 2019, 10:50:36 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 21, 2019, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 20, 2019, 10:27:01 PM
You OK there Adolph your boy Tucker took a hiding last night... this is brilliant!!

https://twitter.com/jordanuhl/status/1098282958828593152?s=21
Who is Adolph?

This douchebag!!!

Quote from: Dolph1 on February 19, 2019, 06:00:42 PM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on February 15, 2019, 08:37:41 PM
Kap and the NFL settle out of court, how much you think he's getting? has to be close to 100 milly i would think.

Unreal that he's getting any money for not being good enough to start at a team.

His actions made him toxic. If I acted the c*** at work I don't expect that my employers would want keep me and I wouldn't expect to get a huge payoff from other companies who refused to hire me because of my reputation.

There is only one reason they are giving him money and it's not for his skills.
Ok
If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas.

I'd think you are smarter than getting influenced in a schoolyard name calling squabble. The guy Dollph  ( I'm guessing he's either a dolph lundgren or Johan mjallby fan) has his opinions, which seem to be unpalatable to a few .. but  it's o my op I ion and only the I ternet.
Cest la vie.
None of th erm are fully right or wrong. ... only the schoolboy bulky boy mentality reminds me of orange/unonist/loyalist bully boys and their behaviour of yesteryear. That's rather overturning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 21, 2019, 06:41:49 PM
Are you having a stroke?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:24:51 PM
QuoteIf you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas.

Kaperneck brought politics into the NFL? Are you for real?

"As recently as 2015, the Department of Defense was doling out millions to the NFL for such things as military flyovers, flag unfurlings, emotional color guard ceremonies, enlistment campaigns, and — interestingly enough — national anthem performances. Additionally, according to Vice, the NFL's policy on players standing for the national anthem also changed in 2009, with athletes "encouraged" thereafter to participate. Prior to that, teams were not given any specific instructions on the matter; some chose to remain in the locker room until after opening ceremonies were completed. (It's unclear whether the policy change was implemented as a direct result of any Defense Department contracts.)"

How the NFL sold patriotism to the U.S. military for millions (https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:30:32 PM
An oldie but a goodie:

'In 2017, the FBI concluded that white supremacists killed more Americans from 2000 to 2016 than "any other domestic extremist movement." Donald Trump's administration is hobbling programs designed to counteract them. (from 2018)'

http://on.theatln.tc/wS5s3Xy (http://on.theatln.tc/wS5s3Xy)


The Wall looks more ridiculous with every passing day. The real threat to Americans is not from brown-skinned people crossing the border on foot, but from the very people who champion the sinister cause of Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 21, 2019, 08:43:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:30:32 PM
An oldie but a goodie:

'In 2017, the FBI concluded that white supremacists killed more Americans from 2000 to 2016 than "any other domestic extremist movement." Donald Trump's administration is hobbling programs designed to counteract them. (from 2018)'

http://on.theatln.tc/wS5s3Xy (http://on.theatln.tc/wS5s3Xy)


The Wall looks more ridiculous with every passing day. The real threat to Americans is not from brown-skinned people crossing the border on foot, but from the very people who champion the sinister cause of Trump.
should anyone who wants to come here be able to get to Mexico and just walk across the border eamon ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 21, 2019, 09:17:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 21, 2019, 08:43:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:30:32 PM
An oldie but a goodie:

'In 2017, the FBI concluded that white supremacists killed more Americans from 2000 to 2016 than "any other domestic extremist movement." Donald Trump's administration is hobbling programs designed to counteract them. (from 2018)'

http://on.theatln.tc/wS5s3Xy (http://on.theatln.tc/wS5s3Xy)


The Wall looks more ridiculous with every passing day. The real threat to Americans is not from brown-skinned people crossing the border on foot, but from the very people who champion the sinister cause of Trump.
should anyone who wants to come here be able to get to Mexico and just walk across the border eamon ?

Are you saying Mexicans just walk across the boarder? Just walk from one side to the other? Just walk?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 09:28:40 PM
1 - Most people who stay illegally in the US came in legally through ports of entry, mostly airports, and overstayed their visas. Don't tell Trump about aviation or he'll be asking for funds to build a roof.
2 - Net migration from Mexico is in negative numbers. More people are going back than coming in.
3 - If all undocumented people went back, wiping 30 million off the population,  the economy of this country would collapse. Fruit is already rotting in the fields for lack of pickers as we speak.
4 - The "go to the back of the line" crowd doesn't seem to realize that there's no line to go to the back of. Legal immigration to the US has been made all but impossible, it stands to reason that illegal immigration would take its place.
5 - It wasn't so long ago that "anyone who wanted to come here" could just do so. God knows the Irish were well able to take advantage of that, which I don't see many people here complaining about.  The idea that a government should have absolute control over who crosses its borders is a very recent idea. 
6 - It's a known fact that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes and more likely to start businesses than people born here.  The "immigrant threat" is a myth. The kind of people you really need to be scared of are the ones attending Trump rallies and stockpiling guns.

So to answer your question, I'm all in favor of open borders with only the bare minimum restrictions such as a background check.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 21, 2019, 09:56:37 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 21, 2019, 09:17:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 21, 2019, 08:43:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:30:32 PM
An oldie but a goodie:

'In 2017, the FBI concluded that white supremacists killed more Americans from 2000 to 2016 than "any other domestic extremist movement." Donald Trump's administration is hobbling programs designed to counteract them. (from 2018)'

http://on.theatln.tc/wS5s3Xy (http://on.theatln.tc/wS5s3Xy)


The Wall looks more ridiculous with every passing day. The real threat to Americans is not from brown-skinned people crossing the border on foot, but from the very people who champion the sinister cause of Trump.
should anyone who wants to come here be able to get to Mexico and just walk across the border eamon ?

Are you saying Mexicans just walk across the boarder? Just walk from one side to the other? Just walk?
no they fly ,  drive , swim , tunnel and run also
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 21, 2019, 10:02:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 09:28:40 PM
1 - Most people who stay illegally in the US came in legally through ports of entry, mostly airports, and overstayed their visas. Don't tell Trump about aviation or he'll be asking for funds to build a roof.

And the reason they stay illegally is that employers are willing to break the law by employing them illegally.

For example, something called "The Trump Organization" has been employing people illegally in at least five different locations. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/428470-trump-organization-fires-at-least-18-undocumented-workers-report

We need to send a message to employers who do this by finding out who owns this criminal organization and lock him up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 10:11:04 PM
Quote from: dec on February 21, 2019, 10:02:41 PM
And the reason they stay illegally is that employers are willing to break the law by employing them illegally.

And the reason employers employ them is because these are workers that are needed. This is the free market at work. Labour is subject to supply and demand too. There is a demand for labour, and no amount of over-the-top restrictions on immigration is going to stop that. If Americans won't do the work, someone else will even if it means overstaying a tourist visa.

Trying to resist that is like sitting on a throne on the shore and ordering the tide to go back out. King Canute was wise enough to prove that that would never work.

And as you rightly point out, even Trump needs undocumented workers, which is why his hypocrisy on this topic is scaling new heights.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:24:51 PM
QuoteIf you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas.

Kaperneck brought politics into the NFL? Are you for real?

"As recently as 2015, the Department of Defense was doling out millions to the NFL for such things as military flyovers, flag unfurlings, emotional color guard ceremonies, enlistment campaigns, and — interestingly enough — national anthem performances. Additionally, according to Vice, the NFL's policy on players standing for the national anthem also changed in 2009, with athletes "encouraged" thereafter to participate. Prior to that, teams were not given any specific instructions on the matter; some chose to remain in the locker room until after opening ceremonies were completed. (It's unclear whether the policy change was implemented as a direct result of any Defense Department contracts.)"

How the NFL sold patriotism to the U.S. military for millions (https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/)
Point out where I said politics...


..but thanks- you are proving my point

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:24:51 PM
QuoteIf you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas.

Kaperneck brought politics into the NFL? Are you for real?

"As recently as 2015, the Department of Defense was doling out millions to the NFL for such things as military flyovers, flag unfurlings, emotional color guard ceremonies, enlistment campaigns, and — interestingly enough — national anthem performances. Additionally, according to Vice, the NFL's policy on players standing for the national anthem also changed in 2009, with athletes "encouraged" thereafter to participate. Prior to that, teams were not given any specific instructions on the matter; some chose to remain in the locker room until after opening ceremonies were completed. (It's unclear whether the policy change was implemented as a direct result of any Defense Department contracts.)"

How the NFL sold patriotism to the U.S. military for millions (https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/)
Point out where I said politics...


..but thanks- you are proving my point
Presumably you also had no sympathy for Tommie Smith and John Carlos over the scandalous treatment they received.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:24:51 PM
QuoteIf you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas.

Kaperneck brought politics into the NFL? Are you for real?

"As recently as 2015, the Department of Defense was doling out millions to the NFL for such things as military flyovers, flag unfurlings, emotional color guard ceremonies, enlistment campaigns, and — interestingly enough — national anthem performances. Additionally, according to Vice, the NFL's policy on players standing for the national anthem also changed in 2009, with athletes "encouraged" thereafter to participate. Prior to that, teams were not given any specific instructions on the matter; some chose to remain in the locker room until after opening ceremonies were completed. (It's unclear whether the policy change was implemented as a direct result of any Defense Department contracts.)"

How the NFL sold patriotism to the U.S. military for millions (https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/)
Point out where I said politics...


..but thanks- you are proving my point
Presumably you also had no sympathy for Tommie Smith and John Carlos over the scandalous treatment they received.
You didn't answer my question to you  above
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 01:20:52 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:24:51 PM
QuoteIf you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas.

Kaperneck brought politics into the NFL? Are you for real?

"As recently as 2015, the Department of Defense was doling out millions to the NFL for such things as military flyovers, flag unfurlings, emotional color guard ceremonies, enlistment campaigns, and — interestingly enough — national anthem performances. Additionally, according to Vice, the NFL's policy on players standing for the national anthem also changed in 2009, with athletes "encouraged" thereafter to participate. Prior to that, teams were not given any specific instructions on the matter; some chose to remain in the locker room until after opening ceremonies were completed. (It's unclear whether the policy change was implemented as a direct result of any Defense Department contracts.)"

How the NFL sold patriotism to the U.S. military for millions (https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/)
Point out where I said politics...


..but thanks- you are proving my point
Presumably you also had no sympathy for Tommie Smith and John Carlos over the scandalous treatment they received.
You didn't answer my question to you  above
I can't answer a supposed question to me which doesn't exist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2019, 02:34:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:24:51 PM
QuoteIf you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas.

Kaperneck brought politics into the NFL? Are you for real?

"As recently as 2015, the Department of Defense was doling out millions to the NFL for such things as military flyovers, flag unfurlings, emotional color guard ceremonies, enlistment campaigns, and — interestingly enough — national anthem performances. Additionally, according to Vice, the NFL's policy on players standing for the national anthem also changed in 2009, with athletes "encouraged" thereafter to participate. Prior to that, teams were not given any specific instructions on the matter; some chose to remain in the locker room until after opening ceremonies were completed. (It's unclear whether the policy change was implemented as a direct result of any Defense Department contracts.)"

How the NFL sold patriotism to the U.S. military for millions (https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/)
Point out where I said politics...


..but thanks- you are proving my point
Presumably you also had no sympathy for Tommie Smith and John Carlos over the scandalous treatment they received.
that was 50 years ago how old are u ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 01:20:52 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:24:51 PM
QuoteIf you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas.

Kaperneck brought politics into the NFL? Are you for real?

"As recently as 2015, the Department of Defense was doling out millions to the NFL for such things as military flyovers, flag unfurlings, emotional color guard ceremonies, enlistment campaigns, and — interestingly enough — national anthem performances. Additionally, according to Vice, the NFL's policy on players standing for the national anthem also changed in 2009, with athletes "encouraged" thereafter to participate. Prior to that, teams were not given any specific instructions on the matter; some chose to remain in the locker room until after opening ceremonies were completed. (It's unclear whether the policy change was implemented as a direct result of any Defense Department contracts.)"

How the NFL sold patriotism to the U.S. military for millions (https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/)
Point out where I said politics...


..but thanks- you are proving my point
Presumably you also had no sympathy for Tommie Smith and John Carlos over the scandalous treatment they received.
You didn't answer my question to you  above
I can't answer a supposed question to me which doesn't exist.
I see your alter ego has answered it now...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on February 22, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.
Should Jessie Owens have done it outside City Hall? Do you think that would have the same effect?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 22, 2019, 09:55:35 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

I wouldn't subscribe to that at all. If you feel there is an injustice and something needs to be done about it why wouldn't you use the biggest platform you have available to call it out??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 22, 2019, 11:02:26 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 01:20:52 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 08:24:51 PM
QuoteIf you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas.

Kaperneck brought politics into the NFL? Are you for real?

"As recently as 2015, the Department of Defense was doling out millions to the NFL for such things as military flyovers, flag unfurlings, emotional color guard ceremonies, enlistment campaigns, and — interestingly enough — national anthem performances. Additionally, according to Vice, the NFL's policy on players standing for the national anthem also changed in 2009, with athletes "encouraged" thereafter to participate. Prior to that, teams were not given any specific instructions on the matter; some chose to remain in the locker room until after opening ceremonies were completed. (It's unclear whether the policy change was implemented as a direct result of any Defense Department contracts.)"

How the NFL sold patriotism to the U.S. military for millions (https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/)
Point out where I said politics...


..but thanks- you are proving my point
Presumably you also had no sympathy for Tommie Smith and John Carlos over the scandalous treatment they received.
You didn't answer my question to you  above
I can't answer a supposed question to me which doesn't exist.

LOL
I do love how your alter-ego pops up at the most appropriate times to validate your claims or do your dirty work Eamonnca1

How convenient, right "Sid" ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 22, 2019, 11:37:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2019, 09:28:40 PM
1 - Most people who stay illegally in the US came in legally through ports of entry, mostly airports, and overstayed their visas. Don't tell Trump about aviation or he'll be asking for funds to build a roof.
2 - Net migration from Mexico is in negative numbers. More people are going back than coming in.
3 - If all undocumented people went back, wiping 30 million off the population,  the economy of this country would collapse. Fruit is already rotting in the fields for lack of pickers as we speak.
4 - The "go to the back of the line" crowd doesn't seem to realize that there's no line to go to the back of. Legal immigration to the US has been made all but impossible, it stands to reason that illegal immigration would take its place.
5 - It wasn't so long ago that "anyone who wanted to come here" could just do so. God knows the Irish were well able to take advantage of that, which I don't see many people here complaining about.  The idea that a government should have absolute control over who crosses its borders is a very recent idea. 
6 - It's a known fact that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes and more likely to start businesses than people born here.  The "immigrant threat" is a myth. The kind of people you really need to be scared of are the ones attending Trump rallies and stockpiling guns.

So to answer your question, I'm all in favor of open borders with only the bare minimum restrictions such as a background check.

Ridiculous as usual

Criminals will not be using ports of entry.
The myth of law abiding criminals is stupid. And it's got to the point where even Bob Menendez (D-NJ - the fat lad with a very dodgy past) says that DUI illegal immigrants aren't criminals.
Irish illegals should be deported same as everyone else. Stop using that as an excuse.
The economy wouldn't collapse if they left. You bring in a visa system for guest workers.

Won't somebody think of the fruit!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2019, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 22, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.
Should Jessie Owens have done it outside City Hall? Do you think that would have the same effect?
are u comparing kapernick to Jesse Owens get a grip I suppose Jussie Smollett is a modern day mlk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2019, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2019, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 22, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.
Should Jessie Owens have done it outside City Hall? Do you think that would have the same effect?
are u comparing kapernick to Jesse Owens get a grip I suppose Jussie Smollett is a modern day mlk
Smollet is like a human version of Brexit and the trump election win

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 22, 2019, 02:57:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2019, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2019, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 22, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.
Should Jessie Owens have done it outside City Hall? Do you think that would have the same effect?
are u comparing kapernick to Jesse Owens get a grip I suppose Jussie Smollett is a modern day mlk
Smollet is like a human version of Brexit and the trump election win

I have to correct you

Smollet is the epitome of the democrat movement. Arrogance, stupidity with a total disregard for the truth and the consequences of his actions.

The Social Justice Warrior he claimed to be was all an act to grab more for himself and virtue signal at the same time as demonizing people who dare show you up as frauds.

It's just like dealing with a lot of you bucks on this board.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2019, 03:09:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2019, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2019, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 22, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.
Should Jessie Owens have done it outside City Hall? Do you think that would have the same effect?
are u comparing kapernick to Jesse Owens get a grip I suppose Jussie Smollett is a modern day mlk
Smollet is like a human version of Brexit and the trump election win
if he wants his ass kicked go to Liam Neeson's neighborhood: Charles Barkley
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

What's your opinion on what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did?

How can something political not be political?

Do you have any concept of what politics is at all?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 22, 2019, 04:06:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

What's your opinion on what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did?

How can something political not be political?

Do you have any concept of what politics is at all?

I don't remember anyone called John Carlos playing for Liverpool.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 22, 2019, 04:10:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

What's your opinion on what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did?

How can something political not be political?

Do you have any concept of what politics is at all?

Eamonnca1 (or Sid Waddell or Madame Gormala or whatever you call yourself)
Kapernick started his protest on 1st September 2016 against police (during the Obama administration)

Police. A non-political entity.

Now go get a big slice of humble pie and apologise.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 22, 2019, 04:56:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

What's your opinion on what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did?

How can something political not be political?

Do you have any concept of what politics is at all?

You mean the soccer commentator fella from Louth?

(http://www.yanksarecoming.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/tommy-smyth-espn.jpg)

That's a PK against you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2019, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 22, 2019, 02:57:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2019, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2019, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 22, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.
Should Jessie Owens have done it outside City Hall? Do you think that would have the same effect?
are u comparing kapernick to Jesse Owens get a grip I suppose Jussie Smollett is a modern day mlk
Smollet is like a human version of Brexit and the trump election win

I have to correct you

Smollet is the epitome of the democrat movement. Arrogance, stupidity with a total disregard for the truth and the consequences of his actions.

The Social Justice Warrior he claimed to be was all an act to grab more for himself and virtue signal at the same time as demonizing people who dare show you up as frauds.

It's just like dealing with a lot of you bucks on this board.
All you seem to do is act the MAGA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 05:55:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 22, 2019, 09:55:35 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

I wouldn't subscribe to that at all. If you feel there is an injustice and something needs to be done about it why wouldn't you use the biggest platform you have available to call it out??
If you think that's ok to do so using that media then cest ca.

Imo it's completely incorrect to do so.
It would be like going into mass and protesting in favour of abortion at half time ( communion) . Plain bad manners.
There s a time and place for everything we were taught.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

What's your opinion on what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did?

How can something political not be political?

Do you have any concept of what politics is at all?
Eamonn/sid
I'm not mentioning politics or political at all.
Please point out where I did.

My issue is with any kind of protest being held within a sporting event.
I'm against strikes at work unless it's a pre agreed union ratified strike.

Your schoolboy name calling about any comprehension on the English language further depicts an ethos of schoolyard bulky boy mentality.
I'm guessing the apology isn't forthcoming ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 07:47:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

What's your opinion on what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did?

How can something political not be political?

Do you have any concept of what politics is at all?
Eamonn/sid
I'm not mentioning politics or political at all.
Please point out where I did.

My issue is with any kind of protest being held within a sporting event.
I'm against strikes at work unless it's a pre agreed union ratified strike.

Your schoolboy name calling about any comprehension on the English language further depicts an ethos of schoolyard bulky boy mentality.
I'm guessing the apology isn't forthcoming ?

Ah I get it.

You don't answer questions and claim imagined victimhood.

You're only here to troll.

A curiously similar modus operandi to another account with similar views to yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 07:47:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

What's your opinion on what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did?

How can something political not be political?

Do you have any concept of what politics is at all?
Eamonn/sid
I'm not mentioning politics or political at all.
Please point out where I did.

My issue is with any kind of protest being held within a sporting event.
I'm against strikes at work unless it's a pre agreed union ratified strike.

Your schoolboy name calling about any comprehension on the English language further depicts an ethos of schoolyard bulky boy mentality.
I'm guessing the apology isn't forthcoming ?

Ah I get it.

You don't answer questions and claim imagined victimhood.

You're only here to troll.

A curiously similar modus operandi to another account with similar views to yourself.

I've answered the question posed.
Just because you don't like my answer you are havi g a go sid/eamonn.

If you are questioning who I am... well unlike yourself... I'm double profile  alter ego

Talk about throwing toys out of pram.
That's what comes of bullys not getting their way.
Are you oup or dup?
;)
I can attempt unmannerly rudeness too!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Saffrongael on February 22, 2019, 09:07:32 PM
Did Kaepernick "kneel" when he was starting ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 22, 2019, 09:07:32 PM
Did Kaepernick "kneel" when he was starting ?
I'm fairly sure he was the starting QB
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2019, 08:53:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

Christ. I don't know what's more pathetic. Crying "cyber bullying" just because you're losing an argument, or denying that police brutality is a political issue.

Was slavery not a political issue?

Was Jim Crow not a political issue?

Was the integration of the south not a political issue?

Was the Northern Ireland civil rights movement not a political issue?

Was the replacement of the RUC by the PSNI not a political issue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2019, 08:58:31 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 22, 2019, 11:37:18 AM
Criminals will not be using ports of entry.

So much nonsense in the rest of your Gish Gallop that I'm going to focus on this claim.

What is the basis of this claim that no criminal has ever entered the US legally? I'm sure the ghosts of the 9/11 hijackers would love to know how they sneaked in over the Mexican border in the dead of night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2019, 02:02:00 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
Eamonn/sid

FFS. You too? I messaged Sid the other day to check that he wasn't me. He assured me that he wasn't. If any mods are listening in here I'm sure they can confirm that we have different IP numbers.

This kind of  unfounded accusation only strengthens the case for you being an Adolf1 sock puppet. And who wants to be accused of being thon gobsh1te? I believe sock puppetry is against the rules here. Don't have me to report you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 24, 2019, 01:22:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2019, 02:02:00 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
Eamonn/sid

FFS. You too? I messaged Sid the other day to check that he wasn't me. He assured me that he wasn't. If any mods are listening in here I'm sure they can confirm that we have different IP numbers.

This kind of  unfounded accusation only strengthens the case for you being an Adolf1 sock puppet. And who wants to be accused of being thon gobsh1te? I believe sock puppetry is against the rules here. Don't have me to report you.

It's difficult to find something that could be both hilarious and tragic at the same time but I think that post above from Eamonnca1/Sid might be it!

Messaging yourself in a vain attempt to pretend to be someone else and then telling the rest of us about it is comedy gold!
Reminds me of that Christine Blazey Liar Ford trial. We MUST believe you :D

You're sort of reminding me of someone else with these shenanagins.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/477ca97860df7696229eecf2c53cfea0/tenor.gif?itemid=9259576)

Glad others are seeing through the Eamonn/Sid lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 24, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 07:47:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

What's your opinion on what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did?

How can something political not be political?

Do you have any concept of what politics is at all?
Eamonn/sid
I'm not mentioning politics or political at all.
Please point out where I did.

My issue is with any kind of protest being held within a sporting event.
I'm against strikes at work unless it's a pre agreed union ratified strike.

Your schoolboy name calling about any comprehension on the English language further depicts an ethos of schoolyard bulky boy mentality.
I'm guessing the apology isn't forthcoming ?

Ah I get it.

You don't answer questions and claim imagined victimhood.

You're only here to troll.

A curiously similar modus operandi to another account with similar views to yourself.

I've answered the question posed.
Just because you don't like my answer you are havi g a go sid/eamonn.

If you are questioning who I am... well unlike yourself... I'm double profile  alter ego

Talk about throwing toys out of pram.
That's what comes of bullys not getting their way.
Are you oup or dup?
;)
I can attempt unmannerly rudeness too!!

Better watch out here Lynchbhoy. Because you don't agree with what Eamonnca1/Sid tell you he has now reverted to the Democrat Playbook. He doesn't like it when he's shown up to be incorrect.

Since he can't bully you into submission he is now threatening to report you to authorities for an unknown crime (would remind you of the Russia Probe still going on 2 years later with no evidence found yet). Then he's calling you a sock puppet which means that you work for Vladamir Putin so you must be evil and denounced. I hope for your sake you don't have any bottles of vodka in the house when the "authorities" come around to search or it's off to the gulags with you.

Has he called you a Nazi yet? Won't be long now! That's one of his favourites.

Ciao for now


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2019, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2019, 08:53:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

Christ. I don't know what's more pathetic. Crying "cyber bullying" just because you're losing an argument, or denying that police brutality is a political issue.

Was slavery not a political issue?

Was Jim Crow not a political issue?

Was the integration of the south not a political issue?

Was the Northern Ireland civil rights movement not a political issue?

Was the replacement of the RUC by the PSNI not a political issue?
You are showing your lack of manners again.

I've not mentioned politics at all eamon/Sid

I've pointed out that the act of protest shouldn't happen within  sporting arenas.

So your own whinging is off point and as irrelevant as usual.
Unfortunately f our you I'll not be bullied by a keyboard 'Hartman.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2019, 03:46:31 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 24, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 07:47:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
Lynch, your exact words were:

"If you are a kaperneck fan , well he painted himself into that corner and I have no sympathy for him for bringing that into American football sporting arenas."

(My emphasis.)

You expect us to believe that the word "that" in your statement refers to something other than politics? Or maybe you're now going to use some contorted logic to suggest that the BLM movement is not political. Whatever.

Don't insult our intelligence. We all know you weren't talking about the weather.

Sport has always been political. Kaperneck is not the first person to use a sporting platform to make a political point.
No offense but you are certainly pushing the boundaries of cyber bullying here.
Thrusting your opinions down someone's throat and telling them what they mean


My issue with kaperneck and what he did at no stage says political.
It was his actions of starting off a protest within a sporting arena that annoyed me. He could have protested outside city hall during the week, but to bring any protest into sports is wrong.  Whether the protest is personal pay related , gay rights, anti carbon emissions, anti abortion, anti Mexican wall,  anti patriots/brady/deflategate persecution or anti cyber bullying - to highlight and conduct an act in this arena is way wrong.
It was the act of bringing the game into disrepute I was referring to.
So feel free to apologise.. but like most bullying behaviour, I suspect one will be lacking.

What's your opinion on what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did?

How can something political not be political?

Do you have any concept of what politics is at all?
Eamonn/sid
I'm not mentioning politics or political at all.
Please point out where I did.

My issue is with any kind of protest being held within a sporting event.
I'm against strikes at work unless it's a pre agreed union ratified strike.

Your schoolboy name calling about any comprehension on the English language further depicts an ethos of schoolyard bulky boy mentality.
I'm guessing the apology isn't forthcoming ?

Ah I get it.

You don't answer questions and claim imagined victimhood.

You're only here to troll.

A curiously similar modus operandi to another account with similar views to yourself.

I've answered the question posed.
Just because you don't like my answer you are havi g a go sid/eamonn.

If you are questioning who I am... well unlike yourself... I'm double profile  alter ego

Talk about throwing toys out of pram.
That's what comes of bullys not getting their way.
Are you oup or dup?
;)
I can attempt unmannerly rudeness too!!

Better watch out here Lynchbhoy. Because you don't agree with what Eamonnca1/Sid tell you he has now reverted to the Democrat Playbook. He doesn't like it when he's shown up to be incorrect.

Since he can't bully you into submission he is now threatening to report you to authorities for an unknown crime (would remind you of the Russia Probe still going on 2 years later with no evidence found yet). Then he's calling you a sock puppet which means that you work for Vladamir Putin so you must be evil and denounced. I hope for your sake you don't have any bottles of vodka in the house when the "authorities" come around to search or it's off to the gulags with you.

Has he called you a Nazi yet? Won't be long now! That's one of his favourites.

Ciao for now
No prob

There's plenty on this board who have met me.

Sid/eamon just throwing toys out of pram as he hasn't the capability of bullying.

Would be interested to see what he has to say if he was face to face. I'm sure over coffee he wouldn't be quite the bully. They all sihte themselves.

It will prove I'm real... plus I'll debate until he's had enough..
I'd be intrigued if he spouts the same sites as on here over a coffee
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on February 25, 2019, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2019, 03:42:12 PM


I've not mentioned politics at all eamon/Sid

I've pointed out that the act of protest shouldn't happen within  sporting arenas.


You'd be great in "The Office" lynchie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2019, 12:57:24 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 25, 2019, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2019, 03:42:12 PM


I've not mentioned politics at all eamon/Sid

I've pointed out that the act of protest shouldn't happen within  sporting arenas.


You'd be great in "The Office" lynchie.

Finchbhoy
(http://www.pilkipedia.co.uk/wiki/images/thumb/7/73/Finchy.jpg/250px-Finchy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2019, 01:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 24, 2019, 01:22:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2019, 02:02:00 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
Eamonn/sid

FFS. You too? I messaged Sid the other day to check that he wasn't me. He assured me that he wasn't. If any mods are listening in here I'm sure they can confirm that we have different IP numbers.

This kind of  unfounded accusation only strengthens the case for you being an Adolf1 sock puppet. And who wants to be accused of being thon gobsh1te? I believe sock puppetry is against the rules here. Don't have me to report you.

It's difficult to find something that could be both hilarious and tragic at the same time but I think that post above from Eamonnca1/Sid might be it!

Messaging yourself in a vain attempt to pretend to be someone else and then telling the rest of us about it is comedy gold!
Reminds me of that Christine Blazey Liar Ford trial. We MUST believe you :D

You're sort of reminding me of someone else with these shenanagins.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/477ca97860df7696229eecf2c53cfea0/tenor.gif?itemid=9259576)

Glad others are seeing through the Eamonn/Sid lies.
If Eamonn is Sid you are Ann Coulter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2019, 07:13:04 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 25, 2019, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2019, 03:42:12 PM


I've not mentioned politics at all eamon/Sid

I've pointed out that the act of protest shouldn't happen within  sporting arenas.


You'd be great in "The Office" lynchie.
Barely make it to my own office!!

I've never watched that tv show...

....at least you aren't resorting to childish name calling like the   lesser IQ types..

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2019, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2019, 03:42:12 PM
I've pointed out that the act of protest shouldn't happen within  sporting arenas.

What?

With a username incorporating "bhoy" into it?


edit: If you knew your history, you'd realise just how absurd you've made yourself look!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on February 25, 2019, 11:23:57 PM
How long before Eamonnca loses his shit and starts a thread to get lynchbhoy banned?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Insane Bolt on February 26, 2019, 07:31:56 AM
This is what this thread does for me.....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqbk9cDX0l0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 26, 2019, 12:43:04 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2019, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2019, 03:42:12 PM
I've pointed out that the act of protest shouldn't happen within  sporting arenas.

What?

With a username incorporating "bhoy" into it?


edit: If you knew your history, you'd realise just how absurd you've made yourself look!
Your assertion is even more obtuse and absurd.
I've never protested at any sporting event.

So your statement is also a tad adolescent at best imo...

Jeez this board has disintegrated into a creche mentality zone..

Ffs

Anyone fancy some actual thinking or conversation rather than cut and paste , herd mentality thinking or cheap childish jibes?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 26, 2019, 12:45:49 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 25, 2019, 11:23:57 PM
How long before Eamonnca loses his shit and starts a thread to get lynchbhoy banned?
Yeah.. it would be a preposterous conclusion to a preposterous load of rubbish!!

If this is What passes for debate and conversation, I might ban myself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 26, 2019, 10:45:51 PM
Please do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 27, 2019, 12:23:41 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 26, 2019, 10:45:51 PM
Please do.
Only if you do everyone a favour first...

I don't know if you are a wum or just that ignorant!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2019, 01:05:38 AM
Was it something I said?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 27, 2019, 12:42:10 PM
QuoteI am ashamed because I know what Mr. Trump is.

He is a racist.

He is a conman.

He is a cheat.

He was a presidential candidate who knew that Roger Stone was talking with Julian Assange about a WikiLeaks drop of Democratic National Committee emails.

From the Cohen testimony coming later today
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 27, 2019, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2019, 01:05:38 AM
Was it something I said?
Both your profiles are severely lacking manners..
You can't debate.. you huff and throw toys out of the pram when someone disagrees.
Hardly a good ambassador for Gaelic games overseas if you a're like this in real life.
Cop on and act your age.

Kapernacks antics for me are unsavoury. I'd be equally disgusted if any Gaa player brought in some kind of protest into croke park. It's irrelevant what the protest is. Croker is  it the place for it.
Same goes for whatever the modern day equivalent of candlestick park is.  That's my opinion eamonn/sid.

US politics I find hilarious. They are as idiotic as our own politicians, just mouthier
.. in true American fashion

I was never a trump fan, but he certainly seems to have brought prosperity back..
Despite shooting himself in the foot on a weekly basis with his antics.
I find it all very amusing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2019, 01:08:56 PM
Trump has "brought prosperity back"??

What is that based on?

Any data?

Where is the inflection point in the trends from the Obama years?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
In the space of a couple of weeks the democrats have now proposed

Green new deal, pay for those unwilling to work
upgrading all existing buildings
3 trillion a year for medicare
Reparations
Eliminate fossil fuels
Eliminate air travel
Open Borders
Free college

Occasion-Cortez now telling people they can't have children because of climate change.

I think all the democrat presidential candidates are backing this.
Seriously. Can those democrats on here honestly say they back this new agenda list?

edit : I forgot to add in 3rd term abortion, up to birth of the child. They love it and celebrate it by lighting up the Freedom tower.
These people are disgusting excuses for humans.

edit edit: Democrats just voted in favour of killing babies already born. And they call others Nazis.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTG48SNFsjMcooUDkcb4trc1l7DZld7Doc47PTcCOXZacddEWXG)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:52:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2019, 01:05:38 AM
Was it something I said?

Everything you say.

How about a ban Lynchbhoy thread. We love it when you throw your toys out of the pram. Fantastic entertainment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:57:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 27, 2019, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2019, 01:05:38 AM
Was it something I said?
Both your profiles are severely lacking manners..
You can't debate.. you huff and throw toys out of the pram when someone disagrees.
Hardly a good ambassador for Gaelic games overseas if you a're like this in real life.
Cop on and act your age.

Kapernacks antics for me are unsavoury. I'd be equally disgusted if any Gaa player brought in some kind of protest into croke park. It's irrelevant what the protest is. Croker is  it the place for it.
Same goes for whatever the modern day equivalent of candlestick park is.  That's my opinion eamonn/sid.

US politics I find hilarious. They are as idiotic as our own politicians, just mouthier
.. in true American fashion

I was never a trump fan, but he certainly seems to have brought prosperity back..
Despite shooting himself in the foot on a weekly basis with his antics.
I find it all very amusing

When you see the shit that liberals support you know Trump must be on the right track. the mainstream media is so skewed in one direction, even internationally, so democrat lies are echoed worldwide.

If you aren't aware of the policies they want to bring in check out the listof recent revelations I posted and ask yourself if this is something that you would approve of if it happened in Ireland.

Mental.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 27, 2019, 03:14:57 PM
(https://i.gifer.com/BoNc.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
In the space of a couple of weeks the democrats have now proposed

Green new deal, pay for those unwilling to work
upgrading all existing buildings
3 trillion a year for medicare
Reparations
Eliminate fossil fuels
Eliminate air travel
Open Borders
Free college

Occasion-Cortez now telling people they can't have children because of climate change.

I think all the democrat presidential candidates are backing this.
Seriously. Can those democrats on here honestly say they back this new agenda list?

edit : I forgot to add in 3rd term abortion, up to birth of the child. They love it and celebrate it by lighting up the Freedom tower.
These people are disgusting excuses for humans.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTG48SNFsjMcooUDkcb4trc1l7DZld7Doc47PTcCOXZacddEWXG)
Dope

This is a GAA forum. It's not full of MAGAs. It is full of Irish people

That Dem list probably looks fine to most posters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
In the space of a couple of weeks the democrats have now proposed

Green new deal, pay for those unwilling to work
upgrading all existing buildings
3 trillion a year for medicare
Reparations
Eliminate fossil fuels
Eliminate air travel
Open Borders
Free college

Occasion-Cortez now telling people they can't have children because of climate change.

I think all the democrat presidential candidates are backing this.
Seriously. Can those democrats on here honestly say they back this new agenda list?

edit : I forgot to add in 3rd term abortion, up to birth of the child. They love it and celebrate it by lighting up the Freedom tower.
These people are disgusting excuses for humans.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTG48SNFsjMcooUDkcb4trc1l7DZld7Doc47PTcCOXZacddEWXG)
Dope

This is a GAA forum. It's not full of MAGAs. It is full of Irish people

That Dem list probably looks fine to most posters

Exactly the reason it needs to be highlighted then they can see exactly how mental it is and that if this happens it's only a matter of time before this madcow disease spreads. You have utter ***m like Zappone who'll gleefully try get implemented.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 27, 2019, 03:14:57 PM
(https://i.gifer.com/BoNc.gif)

Don't be too hard on yourself Gabriel  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2019, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
In the space of a couple of weeks the democrats have now proposed

Green new deal, pay for those unwilling to work
upgrading all existing buildings
3 trillion a year for medicare
Reparations
Eliminate fossil fuels
Eliminate air travel
Open Borders
Free college

Occasion-Cortez now telling people they can't have children because of climate change.

I think all the democrat presidential candidates are backing this.
Seriously. Can those democrats on here honestly say they back this new agenda list?

edit : I forgot to add in 3rd term abortion, up to birth of the child. They love it and celebrate it by lighting up the Freedom tower.
These people are disgusting excuses for humans.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTG48SNFsjMcooUDkcb4trc1l7DZld7Doc47PTcCOXZacddEWXG)
Dope

This is a GAA forum. It's not full of MAGAs. It is full of Irish people

That Dem list probably looks fine to most posters

There's arguable stuff on there, despite the hysterical, hyperbolic presentation.

However foxy/dolph is incapable of discussing honestly, being only interested in winding people up and spewing inflammatory far right bullshit. Yet he dominates the discussion.

This thread is not really worth bothering with anymore. It's a shame.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 27, 2019, 03:58:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2019, 01:08:56 PM
Trump has "brought prosperity back"??

What is that based on?

Any data?

Where is the inflection point in the trends from the Obama years?
I've not looked for data... but the US looked like it was on its knees in the obama era... which I was happy to see as it gave the EU the upper hand.
In recent years it appears stronger economically so eu d oiesnt hold say as it once did.

Anecdotal on my part, but I've heard industry is stronger and unemployment is down

Don't go mad just because I've not attacked trump.
Though he does a good enough job on himself.
But economically the usa seems to be doing better now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2019, 03:59:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
In the space of a couple of weeks the democrats have now proposed

Green new deal, pay for those unwilling to work
upgrading all existing buildings
3 trillion a year for medicare
Reparations
Eliminate fossil fuels
Eliminate air travel
Open Borders
Free college

Occasion-Cortez now telling people they can't have children because of climate change.

I think all the democrat presidential candidates are backing this.
Seriously. Can those democrats on here honestly say they back this new agenda list?

edit : I forgot to add in 3rd term abortion, up to birth of the child. They love it and celebrate it by lighting up the Freedom tower.
These people are disgusting excuses for humans.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTG48SNFsjMcooUDkcb4trc1l7DZld7Doc47PTcCOXZacddEWXG)
Dope

This is a GAA forum. It's not full of MAGAs. It is full of Irish people

That Dem list probably looks fine to most posters

Exactly the reason it needs to be highlighted then they can see exactly how mental it is and that if this happens it's only a matter of time before this madcow disease spreads. You have utter ***m like Zappone who'll gleefully try get implemented.
Most people have kids so don't want runaway climate change
Very few people on the board would be plutocrats either
Healthcare is too expensive as well 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 27, 2019, 04:06:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2019, 03:59:59 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
In the space of a couple of weeks the democrats have now proposed

Green new deal, pay for those unwilling to work
upgrading all existing buildings
3 trillion a year for medicare
Reparations
Eliminate fossil fuels
Eliminate air travel
Open Borders
Free college

Occasion-Cortez now telling people they can't have children because of climate change.

I think all the democrat presidential candidates are backing this.
Seriously. Can those democrats on here honestly say they back this new agenda list?

edit : I forgot to add in 3rd term abortion, up to birth of the child. They love it and celebrate it by lighting up the Freedom tower.
These people are disgusting excuses for humans.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTG48SNFsjMcooUDkcb4trc1l7DZld7Doc47PTcCOXZacddEWXG)
Dope

This is a GAA forum. It's not full of MAGAs. It is full of Irish people

That Dem list probably looks fine to most posters

Exactly the reason it needs to be highlighted then they can see exactly how mental it is and that if this happens it's only a matter of time before this madcow disease spreads. You have utter ***m like Zappone who'll gleefully try get implemented.
Most people have kids so don't want runaway climate change
Very few people on the board would be plutocrats either
Healthcare is too expensive as well
Apart from the eco warriors, I don't know too many that in practice care about global warming or even carbon emissions

Healthcare is expensive
... in Ireland or US. So I'd say everyone would agree.
Essential to have health insurance
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2019, 04:18:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 27, 2019, 03:58:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2019, 01:08:56 PM
Trump has "brought prosperity back"??

What is that based on?

Any data?

Where is the inflection point in the trends from the Obama years?
I've not looked for data... but the US looked like it was on its knees in the obama era... which I was happy to see as it gave the EU the upper hand.
In recent years it appears stronger economically so eu d oiesnt hold say as it once did.

Anecdotal on my part, but I've heard industry is stronger and unemployment is down

Don't go mad just because I've not attacked trump.
Though he does a good enough job on himself.
But economically the usa seems to be doing better now

Who is going mad?

Unemployment has been trending down since 2010 as the economy recovered following the financial collapse. Trump was just lucky enough to take over as it reached full employment levels. If you don't believe me, there's plenty of data out there. I've posted the BLS data myself on this thread a couple of times and can do so again if you're interested. There is nothing on the trends to show any effect from Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 04:29:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2019, 04:18:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 27, 2019, 03:58:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2019, 01:08:56 PM
Trump has "brought prosperity back"??

What is that based on?

Any data?

Where is the inflection point in the trends from the Obama years?
I've not looked for data... but the US looked like it was on its knees in the obama era... which I was happy to see as it gave the EU the upper hand.
In recent years it appears stronger economically so eu d oiesnt hold say as it once did.

Anecdotal on my part, but I've heard industry is stronger and unemployment is down

Don't go mad just because I've not attacked trump.
Though he does a good enough job on himself.
But economically the usa seems to be doing better now

Who is going mad?

Unemployment has been trending down since 2010 as the economy recovered following the financial collapse. Trump was just lucky enough to take over as it reached full employment levels. If you don't believe me, there's plenty of data out there. I've posted the BLS data myself on this thread a couple of times and can do so again if you're interested. There is nothing on the trends to show any effect from Trump.

Lynchbhoy - if you aren't aware the economy is all thanks to this gentleman in the minds of the left even though he left it in the sh*t.

(https://plxqmjeom0e7pd4c-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Obama-Farrakhan-450x332.jpg)

Obama with great pal Louis Farrakhan. Look him up and see what sort of people Obama associates with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 04:44:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2019, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
In the space of a couple of weeks the democrats have now proposed

Green new deal, pay for those unwilling to work
upgrading all existing buildings
3 trillion a year for medicare
Reparations
Eliminate fossil fuels
Eliminate air travel
Open Borders
Free college

Occasion-Cortez now telling people they can't have children because of climate change.

I think all the democrat presidential candidates are backing this.
Seriously. Can those democrats on here honestly say they back this new agenda list?

edit : I forgot to add in 3rd term abortion, up to birth of the child. They love it and celebrate it by lighting up the Freedom tower.
These people are disgusting excuses for humans.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTG48SNFsjMcooUDkcb4trc1l7DZld7Doc47PTcCOXZacddEWXG)
Dope

This is a GAA forum. It's not full of MAGAs. It is full of Irish people

That Dem list probably looks fine to most posters

There's arguable stuff on there, despite the hysterical, hyperbolic presentation.

However foxy/dolph is incapable of discussing honestly, being only interested in winding people up and spewing inflammatory far right bullshit. Yet he dominates the discussion.

This thread is not really worth bothering with anymore. It's a shame.

Nothing hysterical about the presentation. They are all actual policies that democrats are pushing right now. I can assign the actual senators/congressmen who said it if you want. You want to deny they said it?

I don't blame you for wanting to dodge it J70 as there is no way you can actually defend it honestly. If you do then you will be a liar too.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on February 27, 2019, 04:51:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2019, 03:57:51 PM


This thread is not really worth bothering with anymore. It's a shame.

I've been somewhat waiting for you to arrive at this conclusion and surprised it took you this long. It is a shame, particularly as you have kept a very balanced and respectful view point.

It's absolute shite, and you'd be as well scrolling the social media accounts of the furthest left and furthest right folks you can find.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2019, 07:11:40 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 04:44:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2019, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on February 27, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
In the space of a couple of weeks the democrats have now proposed

Green new deal, pay for those unwilling to work
upgrading all existing buildings
3 trillion a year for medicare
Reparations
Eliminate fossil fuels
Eliminate air travel
Open Borders
Free college

Occasion-Cortez now telling people they can't have children because of climate change.

I think all the democrat presidential candidates are backing this.
Seriously. Can those democrats on here honestly say they back this new agenda list?

edit : I forgot to add in 3rd term abortion, up to birth of the child. They love it and celebrate it by lighting up the Freedom tower.
These people are disgusting excuses for humans.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTG48SNFsjMcooUDkcb4trc1l7DZld7Doc47PTcCOXZacddEWXG)
Dope

This is a GAA forum. It's not full of MAGAs. It is full of Irish people

That Dem list probably looks fine to most posters

There's arguable stuff on there, despite the hysterical, hyperbolic presentation.

However foxy/dolph is incapable of discussing honestly, being only interested in winding people up and spewing inflammatory far right bullshit. Yet he dominates the discussion.

This thread is not really worth bothering with anymore. It's a shame.

Nothing hysterical about the presentation. They are all actual policies that democrats are pushing right now. I can assign the actual senators/congressmen who said it if you want. You want to deny they said it?

I don't blame you for wanting to dodge it J70 as there is no way you can actually defend it honestly. If you do then you will be a liar too.

I tried on the abortion thing a week or two ago, but you reverted to your usual, vacuous Facebook headline points. No substance. Same with the thing in England on the BAME students last week. You've nothing to offer beyond pointless flame wars. Luckily for you there's a few lads happy to engage with you on those terms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 28, 2019, 12:39:23 AM
I'm watching the bbc news tonight and it's cracking me up!
Sensationalism at its best. It's like the sun have taken over BBC news

Some guy cohen is on giving testimony about all these wrongdoings , lies and so on that Donald trump has done... and there's nothing of any real consequence.
Only that he paid off stormy Daniel's really raised my eyebrows. The rest is like a scorned lovers rant. Was cringeworthy!

It looks like usa politics ( and society) is resembling the movie 'idiocracy' much sooner than I'd expected!

...and the bbc/Sun news is heading that way too.

Makes the dail look competent !!
Wow!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2019, 12:51:57 AM
"Some guy Cohen"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2019, 01:03:58 AM
(https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Fe22edcca-3acc-11e9-a664-d81d3e2c8975.jpg?crop=2847%2C1898%2C544%2C145&resize=600)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 28, 2019, 01:18:47 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2019, 12:51:57 AM
"Some guy Cohen"
Yep
I'm fairly sure that was his name

Apparantly worked in the same circus/clown shop as trump
... it was evident!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2019, 01:25:02 AM
Welcome back whitey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 28, 2019, 01:30:52 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2019, 01:25:02 AM
Welcome back whitey

Are you racist ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2019, 02:59:16 AM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/u-s-drops-demand-full-accounting-n-korea-nuclear-program-n977251

(https://i.imgur.com/zMyTc8E.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Orior on February 28, 2019, 07:55:52 AM
Can't believe Kim didn't roll over for the man with the biggest brain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 28, 2019, 03:16:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2019, 02:59:16 AM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/u-s-drops-demand-full-accounting-n-korea-nuclear-program-n977251

(https://i.imgur.com/zMyTc8E.png)

Good grief. Are you not over the 2016 election yet?

Honestly it's pathetic at this state that some adults can't accept the legitimate result. Grow up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2019, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 28, 2019, 07:55:52 AM
Can't believe Kim didn't roll over for the man with the biggest brain.

Trump really stood up for Otto Warmbier's family
MAGA

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/28/trump-i-took-kim-at-his-word-over-otto-warmbiers-torture
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2019, 03:55:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2019, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 28, 2019, 07:55:52 AM
Can't believe Kim didn't roll over for the man with the biggest brain.

Trump really stood up for Otto Warmbier's family
MAGA

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/28/trump-i-took-kim-at-his-word-over-otto-warmbiers-torture
He's such a pathetic little patsy.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 28, 2019, 04:20:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2019, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 28, 2019, 07:55:52 AM
Can't believe Kim didn't roll over for the man with the biggest brain.

Trump really stood up for Otto Warmbier's family
MAGA

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/28/trump-i-took-kim-at-his-word-over-otto-warmbiers-torture
if u are negotiating with Kim it's probably better not to lambaste him during said negotiation
Try get what u want and have a private word with ottos family after.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 28, 2019, 04:25:58 PM
Update: he is free to lambaste him as talks have collapsed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on February 28, 2019, 04:41:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 28, 2019, 04:25:58 PM
Update: he is free to lambaste him as talks have collapsed

Democrats would rather find an excuse to start a nuclear war than be out of power.
That's the short of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2019, 06:39:18 PM
America has got the blues

https://youtu.be/-VTetYDhBNc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 01, 2019, 04:06:17 PM
Walls are immoral
Infanticide is moral

Democrats in a nutshell.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on March 01, 2019, 05:34:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 01, 2019, 04:06:17 PM
Walls are immoral
Infanticide is moral

Democrats in a nutshell.

Unfortunately for you, only the dumbest folks actually think that either topic can exist in a nutshell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 01, 2019, 05:53:53 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on March 01, 2019, 05:34:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 01, 2019, 04:06:17 PM
Walls are immoral
Infanticide is moral

Democrats in a nutshell.

Unfortunately for you, only the dumbest folks actually think that either topic can exist in a nutshell.

I don't think that all democrats are dumb. Just a lot of misguided people who feel the need to belong to a group that claims to be morally superior. This makes them feel validated. A cult mentlity if you will. God forbid you point out where they are wrong and they lose the plot.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 01, 2019, 06:43:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 01, 2019, 05:53:53 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on March 01, 2019, 05:34:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 01, 2019, 04:06:17 PM
Walls are immoral
Infanticide is moral

Democrats in a nutshell.

Unfortunately for you, only the dumbest folks actually think that either topic can exist in a nutshell.

I don't think that all democrats are dumb. Just a lot of misguided people who feel the need to belong to a group that claims to be morally superior. This makes them feel validated. A cult mentlity if you will. God forbid you point out where they are wrong and they lose the plot.
Are you talking about the gaaboard clique or democrats?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 01, 2019, 06:54:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 01, 2019, 06:43:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 01, 2019, 05:53:53 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on March 01, 2019, 05:34:55 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 01, 2019, 04:06:17 PM
Walls are immoral
Infanticide is moral

Democrats in a nutshell.

Unfortunately for you, only the dumbest folks actually think that either topic can exist in a nutshell.

I don't think that all democrats are dumb. Just a lot of misguided people who feel the need to belong to a group that claims to be morally superior. This makes them feel validated. A cult mentlity if you will. God forbid you point out where they are wrong and they lose the plot.
Are you talking about the gaaboard clique or democrats?

;D  Zing!!  ;D

Well observed Lynchbhoy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 01, 2019, 10:41:21 PM
The "master negotiator" made a right fool of himself again, didn't he?

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52883906_2606404602785911_6949096199748059136_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=cdc5fbfc0abb030833ff2ef6ef629adf&oe=5CE307EC)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 01, 2019, 10:42:07 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53052625_2605327562893615_1088870511292710912_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=3f2906718e9bc0c243c1fc2151b06f36&oe=5D1E1BE1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 01, 2019, 11:05:10 PM
Not content with polluting their sick minds with lies about global warming, lies about Obama, and lies about just about bloody everything, and not content with sticking up for the second-amendment rights of terrorists and other assorted shooters, American conservatives have pumped the environment so full of their delusions that they're hounding the victims of mass shootings. Your poisonous ideology needs to die like its Nazi predecessor. Take a bow, Alex Jones-watching conservative creeps:

QuoteTrapped in a hoax: survivors of conspiracy theories speak out

What happens to those caught up in the toxic lies of conspiracy theorists? The Guardian spoke to five victims whose lives were wrecked by falsehoods

by Ed Pilkington

Conspiracy theories used to be seen as bizarre expressions of harmless eccentrics. Not any more. Gone are the days of outlandish theories about Roswell's UFOs, the "hoax" moon landings or grassy knolls. Instead, today's iterations have morphed into political weapons. Turbocharged by social media, they spread with astonishing speed, using death threats as currency.

Together with their first cousins, fake news, they are challenging society's trust in facts. At its most toxic, this contagion poses a profound threat to democracy by damaging its bedrock: a shared commitment to truth.

Their growing reach and scale is astonishing. A University of Chicago study estimated in 2014 that half of the American public consistently endorses at least one conspiracy theory. When they repeated the survey last November, the proportion had risen to 61%. The startling finding was echoed by a recent study from the University of Cambridge that found 60% of Britons are wedded to a false narrative.

The trend began on obscure online forums such as the alt-right playground 4chan. Soon, media entrepreneurs realized there was money to be made – most notoriously Alex Jones, whose site Infowars feeds its millions of readers a potent diet of lurid lies (9/11 was a government hit job; the feds manipulate the weather.)

Now the conspiracy theorist-in-chief sits in the White House. Donald Trump cut his political teeth on the "birther" lie that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, and went on to embrace climate change denial, rampant voter fraud and the discredited belief that childhood vaccines may cause autism.

Amid this explosive growth, one aspect has been underappreciated: the human cost. What is the toll paid by those caught up in these falsehoods? And how are they fighting back?

The Guardian talked to five people who can speak from bitter personal experience. We begin in a town we will not identify in Massachusetts where a young man, who tells his story here for the first time, was asleep in his bed.

Lenny Pozner Targeted after he lost his child at Sandy Hook

Lenny Pozner, 51, is preparing to pack his bags, again. A few weeks ago, "hoaxers" – as he calls conspiracy theorists – reproduced a map of his Florida neighborhood with a dropped pin marking the precise location of his apartment. It will be the eighth time in five years he will have been forced to move home as he strives to keep one step ahead of the fanatics who relentlessly hound him.

Pozner's crime, in the eyes of conspiracy theorists, is being the father of one of the 20 children who were gunned down in the mass shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, in December 2012. Noah was the youngest of all victims. He had just turned six.

Within months, conspiracy theorists, egged on by Alex Jones and Infowars, went to work. They generated thousands of web posts and a 426-page book called "Nobody Died at Sandy Hook".

Their thesis: the shooting at the elementary school never happened. The 20 kids who died were "crisis actors". The tragedy was a con. Noah had never even existed, he was a construct of Photoshop.

Within a year, it had reached such a pitch that Pozner knew he had to do something. "I agonized about the situation for several weeks. But ultimately I felt I owed it to my son to protect his memory." He posted on his Google+ page his son's birth and death certificates and kindergarten report card.

"I was extremely naive. I believed that people were simply misinformed and that if I released proof that my child had existed, thrived, loved and was loved, and was ultimately murdered, they would understand our grief, stop harassing us, and more importantly, stop defacing photos of Noah and defaming him online."

Instead, he watched his deceased son buried a second time, under hundreds of pages of hateful web content. "I don't think there's any one word that fits the horror of it," Pozner says. "It's a phenomenon of the age which we're in, modern day witch-hunts. It's a form of mass delusion."

Pozner is extraordinarily controlled. His voice is flat and preternaturally calm, as though all emotion has been pummeled out of him. His apartment has the same pared-down, antiseptic quality. "I've gotten good at moving, I've adapted to it," he says.

He left Newtown for Florida in 2013 with Noah's mother, his now former wife Veronique De La Rosa, and their two daughters in the hope of rebuilding their lives. (He asked the Guardian not to identify the town he now lives in.) He has deliveries sent to a separate address and has rented multiple postal boxes as decoys.

The most serious of death threats came from Lucy Richards, a Florida resident who was so fervent in her belief that the Sandy Hook massacre was fake that she left messages on Pozner's cellphone saying: "You're going to die. Death is coming to you real soon, and there's nothing you can do about it." In June 2017, Richards was sentenced to five months in prison, followed by a further five months under house arrest.

Pozner sees this outpouring of hatred as a product of digital technology running ahead of society's ability to contain it. "Social media hasn't matured. We lack a segment of law enforcement specializing in it. There really is no one to help."

But he reserves his staunchest criticism for Alex Jones, who he blames for amplifying conspiracies in the pursuit of profit. In a lawsuit suing Jones for defamation for more than $1m, lawyers for Pozner and De La Rosa chronicle how Infowars baited them over many years: the shooting was "staged", a "giant hoax". The school was an elaborate film set. It was all a "soap opera".

But in targeting Pozner, Jones picked on the wrong guy. Since 2014 Pozner has made it his life's work to confront the conspiracy theorists. Through his organization the Honr Network, Pozner has systematically challenged those who he believes cross that line, forcing moderators to delete posts. In 2018 alone, he reported 2,568 videos to YouTube and had 1,555 of those expunged.

Pozner's lawsuit against Jones, which mirrors a similar legal case brought by Fontaine, is making its way through a federal court in Austin, Texas. Earlier this month they received a legal boost when the judge granted them access to Jones's financial and marketing documents under discovery.

Jones denies defaming anyone, though he has so far failed in having the suits dismissed on free speech grounds.

Regarding the free speech argument, Pozner says: "You have the right to express yourself and your opinions, no matter how offensive they may be, until your chosen form of expression impedes my rights to be free from defamation and harassment."

What shocks Pozner most, he says, was how alone he was when he began this fight. "I was the only one standing up to the hoaxers, and other than the loss of my son that was my biggest disappointment at the time."

At least he has brought his son's memory back to life. If you search Noah Pozner on Google you will find hundreds of articles about the boy's life and death, and virtually none of the bile from those who questioned his existence.

By Pozner's reckoning, one in five people around the world are suggestible to conspiracy theories, and their obsessions are amplified by the crude logic of digital algorithms. "There is just no more truth, there is just what's trending on Twitter," he says. "Used to be, you had to burn books to keep people from finding out the truth, now you just have to push it to page 20 of a Google search."

Full story (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/23/conspiracy-theories-internet-survivors-truth?fbclid=IwAR39oAFrfTeeg7WZvqXwj5-4-3gYYMkDw2oxkrzwwU-Rc-YhHmS4Pp0Qtlk)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2019, 03:47:30 AM
Are conservatives ever going to reach the bottom?

Poster linking Rep. Ilhan Omar to 9/11 sparks outrage, injuries in W.Va. state Capitol

https://wapo.st/2Tq6hc7 (https://wapo.st/2Tq6hc7)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 02, 2019, 04:37:49 AM
Eamonn, they've already reached rock bottom. The problem is that they've started to dig!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2019, 06:50:28 AM
Indeed. They'll keep digging until they're in China. Because they're thick enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 02, 2019, 10:18:18 AM
I always liked the poster in Texas where Obama was compared to muslims because he supported gay and women rights.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2019, 05:05:29 PM
I liked the one saying "get your government hands off my Medicare."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2019, 05:16:28 PM
Like the one what's our oil doing under your sand
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mossy Bruce on March 02, 2019, 08:18:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2019, 05:05:29 PM
I liked the one saying "get your government hands off my Medicare."
I actually saw someone at a protest carrying a sign that said, "Get the Gov't out of Socialism."
:o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2019, 08:55:06 PM
If conservatives had two heads they'd be twice as stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 03, 2019, 04:20:58 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/026/479/morans.jpg?1258144241)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:26:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2019, 03:47:30 AM
Are conservatives ever going to reach the bottom?

Poster linking Rep. Ilhan Omar to 9/11 sparks outrage, injuries in W.Va. state Capitol

https://wapo.st/2Tq6hc7 (https://wapo.st/2Tq6hc7)

Rep Omar has already shown what a vile person she is. She is anti-American, anti-semitic and already known to be a big fan of ISIS.

You keep defending her Sid/Eamonnca1.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
The loony left gets even loonier especially their new leader

Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.

Joe Biden slayed for saying Mike Pence is a decent man and made grovel and apologise. Cynthia Nixon, failed democrat politician and the ugly redhead in sex in the city, demanded that he take back his words.

Ocasio-Cortez is now keeping a list of anyone that doesn't vote her way. They will lose their seats in next democrat primary as a punishment for demoocrats supporting a motion to recommit to the background check bill that would to notify U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) if a person in the country illegally tries to buy a gun.

Ocasio Cortez is again telling lies in her push for ICE to be abolished.
"ICE is a dangerous agency with 0 accountability, widespread reporting of rape, abuse of power, + children dying in DHS custody. "

Again she won't apportion blame to where is truly belongs - the traffickers or illegals who try circumvent the law and the parents of these children.


On the plus side Trump 2020 is looking even more likely  - she's a boon :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 04, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.


Do you really believe that?
And is it a pre-requisite of being a Republican to believe it?

I'm right of centre generally, but not on every single issue. Average around 7 in a scale of 1 to 10, but climate change is something that to me, is very clearcut.

Not that I'd ever be able to vote in a US election, but if I could, and if there existed a Republican candidate, who did believe in climate change (and wasn't a complete loon), then I'd say that person would be a strong contender for my vote. But I'm not sure such a candidate exists!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.


Do you really believe that?
And is it a pre-requisite of being a Republican to believe it?

I'm right of centre generally, but not on every single issue. Average around 7 in a scale of 1 to 10, but climate change is something that to me, is very clearcut.

Not that I'd ever be able to vote in a US election, but if I could, and if there existed a Republican candidate, who did believe in climate change (and wasn't a complete loon), then I'd say that person would be a strong contender for my vote. But I'm not sure such a candidate exists!

It's called weather. The left are using the phrase "Climate Change" to indoctrinate the gullible.

Remember Al Gore? We're still here!!
Ocasio-Mental-Case has now said that the world has only 12 more years. Yet another case of using this spook tactic to grab power.
There are a lot who are falling for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on March 04, 2019, 04:15:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.


Do you really believe that?
And is it a pre-requisite of being a Republican to believe it?

I'm right of centre generally, but not on every single issue. Average around 7 in a scale of 1 to 10, but climate change is something that to me, is very clearcut.

Not that I'd ever be able to vote in a US election, but if I could, and if there existed a Republican candidate, who did believe in climate change (and wasn't a complete loon), then I'd say that person would be a strong contender for my vote. But I'm not sure such a candidate exists!

It's called weather. The left are using the phrase "Climate Change" to indoctrinate the gullible.

Remember Al Gore? We're still here!!
Ocasio-Mental-Case has now said that the world has only 12 more years. Yet another case of using this spook tactic to grab power.
There are a lot who are falling for it.
So American republicans are practically the last bastion of the world who haven't fallen for this.
It's fascinating.
Presumably down to US oil money and its influence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:23:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.


Do you really believe that?
And is it a pre-requisite of being a Republican to believe it?

I'm right of centre generally, but not on every single issue. Average around 7 in a scale of 1 to 10, but climate change is something that to me, is very clearcut.

Not that I'd ever be able to vote in a US election, but if I could, and if there existed a Republican candidate, who did believe in climate change (and wasn't a complete loon), then I'd say that person would be a strong contender for my vote. But I'm not sure such a candidate exists!

It's called weather. The left are using the phrase "Climate Change" to indoctrinate the gullible.

Remember Al Gore? We're still here!!
Ocasio-Mental-Case has now said that the world has only 12 more years. Yet another case of using this spook tactic to grab power.
There are a lot who are falling for it.

What a pile of utter shit.

First, the term "climate change" was popularized in US politics by Frank Luntz during the early GW Bush years as a "less-scary" alternative to global warming.

Second, whatever Gore said or didn't say (and he's a politician, NOT a scientist), there is no science which claims that the planet is going to disappear or that humans are going to disappear in the near future due to climate change. We could get into the science and the rate at which weather records of all kinds are being smashed now every year, but that would require some thought and consideration and logic on your part, not just empty, knee-jerk, right-wing punchlines.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:36:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:23:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.


Do you really believe that?
And is it a pre-requisite of being a Republican to believe it?

I'm right of centre generally, but not on every single issue. Average around 7 in a scale of 1 to 10, but climate change is something that to me, is very clearcut.

Not that I'd ever be able to vote in a US election, but if I could, and if there existed a Republican candidate, who did believe in climate change (and wasn't a complete loon), then I'd say that person would be a strong contender for my vote. But I'm not sure such a candidate exists!

It's called weather. The left are using the phrase "Climate Change" to indoctrinate the gullible.

Remember Al Gore? We're still here!!
Ocasio-Mental-Case has now said that the world has only 12 more years. Yet another case of using this spook tactic to grab power.
There are a lot who are falling for it.

What a pile of utter shit.

First, the term "climate change" was popularized in US politics by Frank Luntz during the early GW Bush years as a "less-scary" alternative to global warming.

Second, whatever Gore said or didn't say (and he's a politician, NOT a scientist), there is no science which claims that the planet is going to disappear or that humans are going to disappear in the near future due to climate change. We could get into the science and the rate at which weather records of all kinds are being smashed now every year, but that would require some thought and consideration and logic on your part, not just empty, knee-jerk, right-wing punchlines.

Hey - the democrats leaders themselves have said it.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/01/22/ocasio-cortez_the_world_is_going_to_end_in_12_years_if_we_dont_address_climate_change.html


Gore made a lot of money from his prediction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:54:11 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:36:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:23:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.


Do you really believe that?
And is it a pre-requisite of being a Republican to believe it?

I'm right of centre generally, but not on every single issue. Average around 7 in a scale of 1 to 10, but climate change is something that to me, is very clearcut.

Not that I'd ever be able to vote in a US election, but if I could, and if there existed a Republican candidate, who did believe in climate change (and wasn't a complete loon), then I'd say that person would be a strong contender for my vote. But I'm not sure such a candidate exists!

It's called weather. The left are using the phrase "Climate Change" to indoctrinate the gullible.

Remember Al Gore? We're still here!!
Ocasio-Mental-Case has now said that the world has only 12 more years. Yet another case of using this spook tactic to grab power.
There are a lot who are falling for it.

What a pile of utter shit.

First, the term "climate change" was popularized in US politics by Frank Luntz during the early GW Bush years as a "less-scary" alternative to global warming.

Second, whatever Gore said or didn't say (and he's a politician, NOT a scientist), there is no science which claims that the planet is going to disappear or that humans are going to disappear in the near future due to climate change. We could get into the science and the rate at which weather records of all kinds are being smashed now every year, but that would require some thought and consideration and logic on your part, not just empty, knee-jerk, right-wing punchlines.

Hey - the democrats leaders themselves have said it.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/01/22/ocasio-cortez_the_world_is_going_to_end_in_12_years_if_we_dont_address_climate_change.html


Gore made a lot of money from his prediction.

Yeah, I said SCIENCE and scientists, NOT politicians. I don't really give a shit if Gore made money on his book and movie. At least it was in service of a real and legitimate problem. I do give a shit if AOC goes overboard on the hype as it doesn't do any favours for a legitimate cause and gives charlatans like yourself and the people you support an easy distraction to take away from the utter bankruptcy, both moral and intellectual, of your "arguments" on the topic.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:56:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 01, 2019, 11:05:10 PM
Not content with polluting their sick minds with lies about global warming, lies about Obama, and lies about just about bloody everything, and not content with sticking up for the second-amendment rights of terrorists and other assorted shooters, American conservatives have pumped the environment so full of their delusions that they're hounding the victims of mass shootings. Your poisonous ideology needs to die like its Nazi predecessor. Take a bow, Alex Jones-watching conservative creeps:

Who's the Nazis??

(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/629/289/8289629.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on March 04, 2019, 05:28:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:54:11 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:36:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:23:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.


Do you really believe that?
And is it a pre-requisite of being a Republican to believe it?

I'm right of centre generally, but not on every single issue. Average around 7 in a scale of 1 to 10, but climate change is something that to me, is very clearcut.

Not that I'd ever be able to vote in a US election, but if I could, and if there existed a Republican candidate, who did believe in climate change (and wasn't a complete loon), then I'd say that person would be a strong contender for my vote. But I'm not sure such a candidate exists!

It's called weather. The left are using the phrase "Climate Change" to indoctrinate the gullible.

Remember Al Gore? We're still here!!
Ocasio-Mental-Case has now said that the world has only 12 more years. Yet another case of using this spook tactic to grab power.
There are a lot who are falling for it.

What a pile of utter shit.

First, the term "climate change" was popularized in US politics by Frank Luntz during the early GW Bush years as a "less-scary" alternative to global warming.

Second, whatever Gore said or didn't say (and he's a politician, NOT a scientist), there is no science which claims that the planet is going to disappear or that humans are going to disappear in the near future due to climate change. We could get into the science and the rate at which weather records of all kinds are being smashed now every year, but that would require some thought and consideration and logic on your part, not just empty, knee-jerk, right-wing punchlines.

Hey - the democrats leaders themselves have said it.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/01/22/ocasio-cortez_the_world_is_going_to_end_in_12_years_if_we_dont_address_climate_change.html


Gore made a lot of money from his prediction.

Yeah, I said SCIENCE and scientists, NOT politicians. I don't really give a shit if Gore made money on his book and movie. At least it was in service of a real and legitimate problem. I do give a shit if AOC goes overboard on the hype as it doesn't do any favours for a legitimate cause and gives charlatans like yourself and the people you support an easy distraction to take away from the utter bankruptcy, both moral and intellectual, of your "arguments" on the topic.

WTF are you still doing responding to this poster J70. You could fact check him until the end of time. Lucky for him, we've only got about a dozen years before climate change moves into an irreversible spiral which could lead to the end of human civilisation (which is a prediction from an IPCC report which AOC was quoting, for those who still care about accuracy). And at that stage no one will care about trolling on discussion boards and he will have won his argument. MAGA.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 04, 2019, 05:41:15 PM
I see he's serving hamberders and fries in the White House again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 04, 2019, 05:28:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:54:11 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:36:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:23:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.


Do you really believe that?
And is it a pre-requisite of being a Republican to believe it?

I'm right of centre generally, but not on every single issue. Average around 7 in a scale of 1 to 10, but climate change is something that to me, is very clearcut.

Not that I'd ever be able to vote in a US election, but if I could, and if there existed a Republican candidate, who did believe in climate change (and wasn't a complete loon), then I'd say that person would be a strong contender for my vote. But I'm not sure such a candidate exists!

It's called weather. The left are using the phrase "Climate Change" to indoctrinate the gullible.

Remember Al Gore? We're still here!!
Ocasio-Mental-Case has now said that the world has only 12 more years. Yet another case of using this spook tactic to grab power.
There are a lot who are falling for it.

What a pile of utter shit.

First, the term "climate change" was popularized in US politics by Frank Luntz during the early GW Bush years as a "less-scary" alternative to global warming.

Second, whatever Gore said or didn't say (and he's a politician, NOT a scientist), there is no science which claims that the planet is going to disappear or that humans are going to disappear in the near future due to climate change. We could get into the science and the rate at which weather records of all kinds are being smashed now every year, but that would require some thought and consideration and logic on your part, not just empty, knee-jerk, right-wing punchlines.

Hey - the democrats leaders themselves have said it.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/01/22/ocasio-cortez_the_world_is_going_to_end_in_12_years_if_we_dont_address_climate_change.html


Gore made a lot of money from his prediction.

Yeah, I said SCIENCE and scientists, NOT politicians. I don't really give a shit if Gore made money on his book and movie. At least it was in service of a real and legitimate problem. I do give a shit if AOC goes overboard on the hype as it doesn't do any favours for a legitimate cause and gives charlatans like yourself and the people you support an easy distraction to take away from the utter bankruptcy, both moral and intellectual, of your "arguments" on the topic.

WTF are you still doing responding to this poster J70. You could fact check him until the end of time. Lucky for him, we've only got about a dozen years before climate change moves into an irreversible spiral which could lead to the end of human civilisation (which is a prediction from an IPCC report which AOC was quoting, for those who still care about accuracy). And at that stage no one will care about trolling on discussion boards and he will have won his argument. MAGA.

I do love how you believe you have the right to tell another poster to censor himself.
So the IPCC writes a report which predicts something that gives them leverage on the world stage and has found gobshites like AOC to repeat them. yes,  Irrefutable evidence right there.

There was snow in Ireland yesterday. Must be that old climate change  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2019, 05:42:55 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 04, 2019, 05:28:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:54:11 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:36:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2019, 04:23:16 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
Ocasio-Cortez now wants to decide if you can have children because she is concerned about climate change (which is a complete hoax). Not an issue for the Beta males I guess.


Do you really believe that?
And is it a pre-requisite of being a Republican to believe it?

I'm right of centre generally, but not on every single issue. Average around 7 in a scale of 1 to 10, but climate change is something that to me, is very clearcut.

Not that I'd ever be able to vote in a US election, but if I could, and if there existed a Republican candidate, who did believe in climate change (and wasn't a complete loon), then I'd say that person would be a strong contender for my vote. But I'm not sure such a candidate exists!

It's called weather. The left are using the phrase "Climate Change" to indoctrinate the gullible.

Remember Al Gore? We're still here!!
Ocasio-Mental-Case has now said that the world has only 12 more years. Yet another case of using this spook tactic to grab power.
There are a lot who are falling for it.

What a pile of utter shit.

First, the term "climate change" was popularized in US politics by Frank Luntz during the early GW Bush years as a "less-scary" alternative to global warming.

Second, whatever Gore said or didn't say (and he's a politician, NOT a scientist), there is no science which claims that the planet is going to disappear or that humans are going to disappear in the near future due to climate change. We could get into the science and the rate at which weather records of all kinds are being smashed now every year, but that would require some thought and consideration and logic on your part, not just empty, knee-jerk, right-wing punchlines.

Hey - the democrats leaders themselves have said it.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/01/22/ocasio-cortez_the_world_is_going_to_end_in_12_years_if_we_dont_address_climate_change.html


Gore made a lot of money from his prediction.

Yeah, I said SCIENCE and scientists, NOT politicians. I don't really give a shit if Gore made money on his book and movie. At least it was in service of a real and legitimate problem. I do give a shit if AOC goes overboard on the hype as it doesn't do any favours for a legitimate cause and gives charlatans like yourself and the people you support an easy distraction to take away from the utter bankruptcy, both moral and intellectual, of your "arguments" on the topic.

WTF are you still doing responding to this poster J70. You could fact check him until the end of time. Lucky for him, we've only got about a dozen years before climate change moves into an irreversible spiral which could lead to the end of human civilisation (which is a prediction from an IPCC report which AOC was quoting, for those who still care about accuracy). And at that stage no one will care about trolling on discussion boards and he will have won his argument. MAGA.
I know... temporary slip.  :-[ :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2019, 08:10:52 PM
Do not feed the trolls. Don't waste your time rebutting every lie they tell. If you did you'd be here all day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 04, 2019, 05:41:15 PM
I see he's serving hamberders and fries in the White House again

When Comrade Ocasio-Cortez gets her way stopping cow flatulence there will be no more hamberders.

You'll be on a strict gruel ration while she eats her caviar.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 04, 2019, 10:02:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2019, 08:10:52 PM
Do not feed the trolls. Don't waste your time rebutting every lie they tell. If you did you'd be here all day.

Lol

Irony alert !! 

:D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 04, 2019, 10:27:36 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 04, 2019, 04:56:37 PM


Who's the Nazis??


Irony alert, oh yeah and grammar.

this cadet is on a roll today ladies and gentlemen, a roll...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 06, 2019, 04:59:59 PM
Bloomberg rules himself out of a 2020 run. He knows if he runs against Donald J. Trump he will be humiliated in public.

Rumours that Ocasio-Cortez may have violated campaign funding. If true I bet Pelosi will give the GOP a hand to lock her up (that sounds familiar!).

Still waiting to see if Michael Obama plans to run ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 06, 2019, 06:20:32 PM
you have rumors of AOC commuting campaign funding.

meanwhile congress,  the SDNY and the special investigation has evidence of DT committing campaign fraud.

its a real pity you didn't make it to a Jesuit school where if all else failed a decent education could have been beaten into you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 06, 2019, 06:26:32 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 06, 2019, 06:20:32 PM
you have rumors of AOC commuting campaign funding.

meanwhile congress,  the SDNY and the special investigation has evidence of DT committing campaign fraud.

its a real pity you didn't make it to a Jesuit school where if all else failed a decent education could have been beaten into you.

Are the democrats still pinning their hopes on a porn star?

Whatever happened to that Russian collusion? It's all gone a little quiet from Adam Shitt and company.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 07, 2019, 12:15:39 AM
Knock, knock!
Who's there?
Adolph.
Adolph who?
Adolph ball hit me in the head, and that's why I make these imbecilic posts!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 07, 2019, 12:51:45 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 06, 2019, 06:26:32 PM

Are the democrats still pinning their hopes on a porn star?

Whatever happened to that Russian collusion? It's all gone a little quiet from Adam Shitt and company.

Are you in high school?
Do a fart joke- gets em every time
Then some sarcasm- highest form of intelligence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 07, 2019, 11:03:13 AM
I can only assume it's because otherwise savvy posters don't know how.

Profile
Modify Profile
Buddies/Ignore List
Edit Ignore List
Add To Ignore List
Member: Dolph1
Add
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2019, 11:20:17 AM
Quote from: Hardy on March 07, 2019, 11:03:13 AM
I can only assume it's because otherwise savvy posters don't know how.

Profile
Modify Profile
Buddies/Ignore List
Edit Ignore List
Add To Ignore List
Member: Dolph1
Add

Marvelous.

Thank you!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 07, 2019, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 07, 2019, 11:03:13 AM
I can only assume it's because otherwise savvy posters don't know how.

Profile
Modify Profile
Buddies/Ignore List
Edit Ignore List
Add To Ignore List
Member: Dolph1
Add

I do love how you think you're "savvy"  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 07, 2019, 12:35:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 11:20:17 AM
Quote from: Hardy on March 07, 2019, 11:03:13 AM
I can only assume it's because otherwise savvy posters don't know how.

Profile
Modify Profile
Buddies/Ignore List
Edit Ignore List
Add To Ignore List
Member: Dolph1
Add

Marvelous.

Thank you!

Bye J70! Enjoy the echo chamber.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 07, 2019, 05:35:06 PM
Billboard in Times Square. LOL. Thank Ocasio Cortez

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTgQ5So_nk9Qac6V9UxQ_CUUuMFho-eyP9kprQLA4a719UX4LI)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 07, 2019, 05:45:41 PM
Yup- Herman Cain funds a billboard and he chooses to slate AOC- shocker

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/politics/midtown-billboard-rips-aoc-over-amazon-pullout
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on March 07, 2019, 05:52:17 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 07, 2019, 05:45:41 PM
Yup- Herman Cain funds a billboard and he chooses to slate AOC- shocker

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/politics/midtown-billboard-rips-aoc-over-amazon-pullout

Doesn't matter. It's a problem that the Democrats need to address and one that the republicans will capitalize on

This will resonate with the center left as well as the right.

You can picture the slogans, Dems want taxes before jobs, No taxation - no jobs

It's amazing to watch, but the Labour party in the UK, and the Dems in the US are facing the exact same issues regarding the far left

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2019, 06:00:37 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 07, 2019, 05:45:41 PM
Yup- Herman Cain funds a billboard and he chooses to slate AOC- shocker

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/politics/midtown-billboard-rips-aoc-over-amazon-pullout

Amazon, including the richest man on earth, were scared off by AOC, a sitting politician for almost two months and a local councilman no one outside of NW Queens had probably ever heard of (van Braemer's biggest "controversies" before that were over the bike lanes through Woodside and Sunnyside) who was asking "tough" questions like "would they remain neutral if the workers wanted to organize?". Meanwhile, they had the full support of the sitting Democratic governor in his third term and Democratic mayor in his second, as well as most local business people and the majority of New York residents, more than 75% of whom are Democrats.

I live in the area and I wanted Amazon to come, but throwing all the blame on her is just ridiculous. Amazon's heart wasn't really in it if potentially having to deal with unionization was all it took to scare them off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 07, 2019, 06:42:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 06:00:37 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 07, 2019, 05:45:41 PM
Yup- Herman Cain funds a billboard and he chooses to slate AOC- shocker

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/politics/midtown-billboard-rips-aoc-over-amazon-pullout

Amazon, including the richest man on earth, were scared off by AOC, a sitting politician for almost two months and a local councilman no one outside of NW Queens had probably ever heard of (van Braemer's biggest "controversies" before that were over the bike lanes through Woodside and Sunnyside) who was asking "tough" questions like "would they remain neutral if the workers wanted to organize?". Meanwhile, they had the full support of the sitting Democratic governor in his third term and Democratic mayor in his second, as well as most local business people and the majority of New York residents, more than 75% of whom are Democrats.

I live in the area and I wanted Amazon to come, but throwing all the blame on her is just ridiculous. Amazon's heart wasn't really in it if potentially having to deal with unionization was all it took to scare them off.

Bezos is not going to bow to the crazy one (Ocasio-Cortez that is, there are many candidates on the left for that title).
Once she opened her yap her moron following echoed it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 07, 2019, 11:42:10 PM
If you really think that Amazon pulled out of going to NYC because of AOC and a few union workers I've a bridge I want to sell you.

Eejits, seriously?

Just how much BS will you actually swallow?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 08, 2019, 02:20:23 AM
Quote from: heganboy on March 07, 2019, 11:42:10 PM
If you really think that Amazon pulled out of going to NYC because of AOC and a few union workers 

Just how much BS will you actually swallow?

How much have you got?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 08, 2019, 02:55:40 PM
Funny watching the democrats squirm about having to condemn anti-Semitism.
Pelosi scared of the new democrat congress mental cases and has lost all control of the party. Omar and AOC have taken over.
God knows what policies are coming next. Water rationing?


Awesome.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 08, 2019, 05:30:38 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 07, 2019, 11:42:10 PM
If you really think that Amazon pulled out of going to NYC because of AOC and a few union workers I've a bridge I want to sell you.

Eejits, seriously?

Just how much BS will you actually swallow?
enlighten us
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 09, 2019, 07:32:34 PM
One of these kids is doing his own thing

(https://scontent.fdub1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53348952_2143671759043524_6803656667096416256_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub1-2.fna&oh=9c3f743f21c00d59e388b0c67eb445cd&oe=5D1A2991)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2019, 01:25:51 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53836752_2072365492819373_2087298696482914304_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=5b43a2b5db6dadaa3451c503b07aae40&oe=5D282D56)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2019, 01:26:54 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53807522_2072363866152869_742645071484026880_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=4b2805f5e742d6343175cfebe5c4a6d5&oe=5D1DC550)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2019, 01:28:48 AM
Oh God make it stop!

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53413482_2071512442904678_9117146290055020544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=2ccb4deda97001cc007cb218c00be85c&oe=5D234E98)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 10, 2019, 01:36:34 AM
With all of the stuff this administration is doing, this is a big deal? Seriously, who cares?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2019, 02:53:51 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53450806_2072368929485696_2553805756273000448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=2d79e0450362d7f293bc062ceda37ac0&oe=5D24730D)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2019, 02:55:15 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53325224_2071372706251985_4714545558839099392_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=5ddcaace265c292750a0e98f40c85220&oe=5D19C861)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 10, 2019, 08:42:02 AM
I'm just wondering what's in the "Military Challenge Edition" of the Bible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 10, 2019, 12:15:39 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 10, 2019, 08:42:02 AM
I'm just wondering what's in the "Military Challenge Edition" of the Bible.

They're replaced all the big words with rough equivalents that are no longer than 5 letters....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 11, 2019, 03:11:02 PM
Not sure why the atheists are getting so worked up about President Trump signing bibles. He is the closest thing to God on the planet right now.

If you want to talk about signatures how about that Iran deal?

(http://commonsensenation.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Obama-resets-Iran-relationship.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on March 11, 2019, 05:09:40 PM
Nice one Tucker!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47523608
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2019, 06:44:09 PM
Speaking of God:

(https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/iXp-ZAgf6O3r1k-n8lvUQRqxgcQ=/768x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/obama-trump-tax-returns-58b8d8913df78c353c2336b4.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 11, 2019, 10:00:31 PM
Lets ask this fella if he knows why.

(https://i2.wp.com/illuminatipuppet.net/Images/Puppets/joanrivers2.jpg)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2019, 10:46:42 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53084631_10155882346660178_2035224782114390016_n.png?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=a08d7acc5e016aa6b1dcc1864103ecf1&oe=5D1787C7)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2019, 11:34:59 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53439540_1231000117073957_900257271596974080_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=0d80decc413c4f93a55c5fbf200f8375&oe=5D1DAB1C)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 11, 2019, 11:47:00 PM
Careful Eamonnca1 - Democrats have had a little bit of bother recently with the letter J  ;)

(https://www.commdiginews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/omar-pass-600-li.jpg)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 11, 2019, 11:47:00 PM
Careful Eamonnca1 - Democrats have had a little bit of bother recently with the letter J  ;)

(https://www.commdiginews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/omar-pass-600-li.jpg)
Doof

AIPAC recently organised 77 Senators to vote to criminalise First Amendment speech on behalf of Israel

How does this fit into the Fox World view  ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 12, 2019, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2019, 09:16:35 AM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/humiliating-belfast-airport-boss-says-70-people-missed-flights-because-of-delays-37900297.html

I thought this was about the San Francisco mayor's award to Martin McGuinness.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-47521926
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 04:37:38 PM
Poor conservatives can't handle the truth about Israel.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sO6a21Aiw98ZVqHJk5jYClMiF13O2m4VmvIY8mPp5ewrpApL0mTaSaD1w1AMLEN40uHzAvGmjAuPUH6v3YTfHOx9Mur1xOMDRkzMfLtpJvLRVtIR3oLIlEn-caJ4Lpy4dgCxgqQ)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 05:35:53 PM
I didn't have you pegged as an anti-Semite Eamonnca1.

Funny how the politically correct democrats aren't as concerned with some forms of "hate speech".






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 05:57:56 PM
(https://pics.me.me/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-proudlyintroduces-thesocialist-iphone-socialist-movado-watch-and-socialist-35648265.png)

I wonder did she take a solar powered airplane to the SXSW festival this weekend to reduce her carbon footprint seeing as she is so concerned about "Climate Change"

;)

Keep the lies coming. Loving it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on March 12, 2019, 06:11:02 PM
Mods - any chance of making this thread in anyway inhabitable?

Both the low brow ass clowns above need some time in the sanitarium.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 06:22:41 PM
Ah yes, the "capitalist" iPhone. Connects to the internet (a US government defense project) and the World Wide Web (invented by a dude working at CERN). Uses GPS (thank you, US Department of Defense) and a boatload of other technologies that were developed by and for the same "big gubmint" that USAian conservatives hate so much. It's also a good job Apple got early stage finance from the U.S. government's Small Business Investment Company program, isn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 06:29:47 PM
(https://images.dailykos.com/images/304813/story_image/1240.png?1475005430)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:01:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 06:29:47 PM
(https://pics.me.me/b-em-ponts-because-looting-matters-blm-27777310.png)

More realistic from Eamonnca1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 09:17:06 PM
How careful of them to look at their receipts on the way out the door, as if they're emerging from the store during Black Friday sales. It's almost like this is yet another out-of-context photo with racist labels attached.

No wonder black people keep getting profiled. KKK heads like Adolph here see them doing ordinary mundane things and think they're up to no good. Adoplh1 probably has a phone pinned to his ear all the time because black dudes living in his neighbourhood are "suspicious" and he's constantly calling cops on them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:35:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 09:17:06 PM
How careful of them to look at their receipts on the way out the door, as if they're emerging from the store during Black Friday sales. It's almost like this is yet another out-of-context photo with racist labels attached.

No wonder black people keep getting profiled. KKK heads like Adolph here see them doing ordinary mundane things and think they're up to no good. Adoplh1 probably has a phone pinned to his ear all the time because black dudes living in his neighbourhood are "suspicious" and he's constantly calling cops on them.

It would seem quite strange to hold a black Friday sale in a shop without lights on.

People can judge which version to believe. I don't think they'll come to the same conclusion as you have Eamonnca1!!
Receipts indeed. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 10:09:18 PM
(https://img.memecdn.com/trump-meme_o_6999925.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 11:27:06 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRjE9b6h5JCN1kZEfMuqbsyDt7TfHqFTl5Oc6I8qCKJC_shmm7)

Did you ever find out which one in the pic he was Eamonnca1?
Oh those crazy Democrats!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 11:41:49 PM
(http://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz/SELkIluGrYw7D8lvUyjQs328aByvj77dJAHsSPgbW3bv4ib0yFH79prcLicSib7JPnsC9ZAQBR2Cjg7GE03doa3fg/640?wx_fmt=jpeg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 13, 2019, 12:05:19 AM
Madness that an atheist who supports abortion (amongst other sinful stuff) is trying to use the bible as a method of attack.
Well done Eamonnca1.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2019, 12:26:25 AM
Now now. Judge not, lest ye be judged!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 13, 2019, 12:37:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2019, 12:26:25 AM
Now now. Judge not, lest ye be judged!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Associate_Justice_Brett_Kavanaugh_Official_Portrait.jpg/220px-Associate_Justice_Brett_Kavanaugh_Official_Portrait.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2019, 02:39:44 AM
The man who cheated on wife #1 with wife #2 (who got pregnant while he was still married to #1), cheated on wife #2 with #3, and cheated on wife #3 with a porn star.

This man still enjoys the support of "family values" Republicans and conservative evangelicals.

Don't talk to me about "sin," you good-for-nothing conservative troll. Go gnaw on a stick of celery, you little gerbil.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 13, 2019, 11:30:05 AM
One at a time ladies!!

(https://cache.emirates247.com/polopoly_fs/1.282699.1452549316!/image/image.jpg)

Beta Males need not apply Eamonnca1.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2019, 06:35:49 PM
Lock up your daughters. And lock that dressing room door too. Wouldn't want that creepy old shriveled fat pervert walking in on the ladies while they're getting ready.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2019, 06:36:53 PM
(https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/4C_ZQ8yVUig-y37_xuypvE2YWOc=/768x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/trump-bush-hold-my-beer-588001fb5f9b58bdb3f29d98.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 13, 2019, 06:57:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2019, 06:35:49 PM
Lock up your daughters. And lock that dressing room door too. Wouldn't want that creepy old shriveled fat pervert walking in on the ladies while they're getting ready.

Weak comeback Eamonnca1. 0 out of 10.

Men dressing up as women going into womens/girls dressing rooms is an actual problem.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 13, 2019, 07:07:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2019, 06:36:53 PM
(https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/4C_ZQ8yVUig-y37_xuypvE2YWOc=/768x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/trump-bush-hold-my-beer-588001fb5f9b58bdb3f29d98.jpg)
(http://obama.net/wp-content/uploads/obama-winner.jpg)

Fixed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2019, 12:21:37 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54518882_2623615654398139_594283586681569280_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=03fc241a48e34713a3237b41b0a0108d&oe=5D0F49A5)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on March 14, 2019, 12:37:54 AM
this thread has turned into a twitter comments section
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 14, 2019, 02:42:36 AM
This thread is fucked.  Shame, used to be a good place to discuss the issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2019, 04:27:54 PM
We have to dumb it down for Adolph1's benefit. I figured that, with him being a conservative, pictures would be easier to understand than just having to read words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 15, 2019, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 14, 2019, 02:42:36 AM
This thread is fucked.  Shame, used to be a good place to discuss the issues.

Agreed Jell 0
You can't discuss issues when you have posters that lose their minds whenever a differing point of view is given.
Eamonnca1 (and his alter ego Sid Waddell) will even go to the extreme of trying to get such posters banned.

add that to the lack of humour from the left and all you get is po-faced repeaters who only spout outrage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2019, 01:27:04 PM
Calm down, Adolph. Just because one of your associates just went on a shooting spree in NZ doesn't mean you should be losing your temper here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on March 15, 2019, 01:29:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2019, 04:27:54 PM
We have to dumb it down for Adolph1's benefit. I figured that, with him being a conservative, pictures would be easier to understand than just having to read words.
To be honest your nearly as bad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 15, 2019, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 14, 2019, 02:42:36 AM
This thread is fucked.  Shame, used to be a good place to discuss the issues.

If you look at the start of the thread, it doesn't seem to have changed that much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 15, 2019, 04:34:37 PM
I see Robert O'Rourke, the failed Texas politician, has declared that he is going to run in 2020 for the Democrat nomination.

Some turnaround after declaring in November that he had absolutely no intention in doing so.

We might not know much about him but we know he's a proven liar.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 15, 2019, 04:39:29 PM
Democrats want to lower the voting age to 16 according to Pelosi.
Add that to their wish to allow "new americans" (code for illegals) to have the vote.

Still nothing on the Russian Collusion but they want to expand investigations to divert attention from the failure to get President Trump.

Democrats - Destroying America bit by bit.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 15, 2019, 05:38:50 PM
(https://c3.thejournal.ie/media/2018/03/taoiseach-visits-united-states-of-america-13-390x285.jpg)

The wearing of the green. Certainly suits Melania.

Great news for Ireland that he plans to visit next year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2019, 06:05:47 PM
Democrats want to make it easier for people to vote. Mitch McConnell calls that a "power grab." Repukelicans know that they can only win by cheating, gerrymandering, and voter suppression.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 15, 2019, 06:41:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2019, 06:05:47 PM
Democrats want to make it easier for people to vote. Mitch McConnell calls that a "power grab." Repukelicans know that they can only win by cheating, gerrymandering, and voter suppression.

Adding illegal voters is actual cheating. Giving illegals id cards to allow the to vote is cheating.
There is no such thing as voter suppression. If people are too lazy to find ways to register that is their issue. They have 4 years inbetween presidential elections to do so.

Democrats losing their wigs about asking status on census forms to prevent fraud for congressional districts.

There is only one party that is cheating. The people in Ireland who read this thread need to know that President Trump is working for the people of the USA first and is acting in a responsible manner. The Democrats only work for the globalists, hence the open borders agenda to create chaos.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2019, 07:09:24 PM
The only party cheating is the Republicans. They'll throw blacks and Latinos off the voter rolls, close down polling places in black districts, rig electoral boundaries left and right, and resort to every lying cheating trick in the book to hang on to power, and to hell with the wishes of the people. they have no shame.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2019, 07:15:13 PM
(https://rackjite.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/77izzzz.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2019, 07:34:03 PM
LOL! Repukelicans are so terrified of AOC that they've formed a hybrid SuperPAC called the "Stop the AOC PAC." LMAO!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 18, 2019, 08:29:08 AM
🤥Trump averaged 15 false or misleading claims a day in 2018, according to WaPo. So far in 2019, Trump's averaging nearly 22 false claims a day.

🏌🏻‍♂️Trump has spent 397 days at his properties, amounting to more than half of his time in office and tens of millions in U.S. taxpayer dollars (NBC). Around 60% of Trump's scheduled time at the White House is spent in unstructured "Executive Time" (Axios).

🚫According to PolitiFact, Trump has failed to keep over 83% of his campaign promises after almost two years and despite total GOP control, failing to fund the border wall and pass "repeal and replacement" of Obamacare.

📊During his first year, Trump signed the fewest number of bills into law in over half a century (GovTrack), with more than half of those near record-low laws having to do with naming/stating something and modifying existing programs (NPR). About a third of Trump's deregulatory actions were started under Obama, while other actions had little impact, were part of actions typically taken by the federal government, or have not yet gone into effect (Bloomberg).

📝NOTE/ More than 90% of Trump's deregulatory efforts have been blocked in court, or withdrawn after a lawsuit, according to a running tally maintained by the Institute for Policy Integrity, a nonpartisan think tank sponsored by the New York University School of Law.

*****************************************************

💰Trump's tax law has failed to 1. simplify the code, increasing the number of tax expenditures from 216 to 233; 2. pay for itself, blowing another trillion dollar hole in the budget; 3. boost hiring or investment, resulting in little to no acceleration, and 4. raise real wages, breaking his promise of "a $4,000 pay hike".

💸Almost two-thirds of Americans polled say they haven't seen an increase in their take-home pay as a result of last year's GOP tax law (Gallup). According to a new American Barometer poll, only 33% of Americans say they are financially better off this year compared to last year. Also, 78% of full-time workers said they live paycheck to paycheck, up from 75% last year, according to a recent report from CareerBuilder. Overall, 71% of all U.S. workers said they're now in debt, up from 68% a year ago. NEW: A record 7 million Americans are 3 months behind on their car payments, the highest number in history according to a study released by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

🐘Florida Sen. Marco Rubio (R): "There's no evidence whatsoever that the money's been massively poured back into the American worker."

🐘Retiring Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker (R): Tax cuts could be "one of the worst votes I've made."

🕰National Debt Clock Manager Douglas Durst: "The tax cut was an overall step in the wrong direction. Nobody who has any background in economics thought the tax bill was a good idea."

*****************************************************

📈The gross national debt has surpassed $22 trillion for the first time in U.S. history, with the interest that we pay on the debt becoming the fastest growing part of the budget, and as deficits soar under Trump and the GOP tax law, widening by 77% in the first four months of fiscal 2019.

📉Economic sentiment is at a new low under Trump, according to a new survey of 43 top economists, fund managers, and market strategists.

📉U.S. household wealth fell by a record $3.8 trillion, or 3.5%, at the end of 2018, and corporate bond issuance plummeted as a global market rout threatened to weaken a near-decade old recovery, according to Federal Reserve data.

📉U.S. stocks ended 2018 with their worst year since 2008, which was during the Great Recession, and their worst December since 1931, which was during the Great Depression.

📉Stock gains⬇️
👷‍♂️Job gains⬇️
🏬Retail sales⬇️
🚶‍♂️Move rate⬇️
⛺️Homelessness⬆️
🏥Uninsured rate⬆️
💊Health costs⬆️
🌐Trade deficit⬆️
📈Budget deficit⬆️

📝NOTE/ The unemployment rate has barely budged, the labor participation rate is still lagging, the GDP growth rate is now slowing, and wage growth is getting better but has barely grown and is still below the target needed to *begin* to reap the benefits of economic growth while the workers' share of corporate income has remained stagnant and far from recovery.

📝NOTE2/ As far as Trump's claims that the US economy is the "best ever", performance under his tenure ranks 6th out of the past 7 presidents with 12 of 14 metrics registering avg to below avg improvement. https://bloom.bg/2RRQL8W

📝NOTE3/ According to a NYT review of surveys of about 50 leading economists — liberals and conservatives — run by the University of Chicago:

🤝Trade Policy: F
💸Fiscal Policy: D-
🏦Monetary Policy: C

🏦Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell: "Financial markets became more volatile toward year-end, and financial conditions are now less supportive of growth than they were earlier last year."

🏦Fmr. Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen: Trump has "no" grasp of macroeconomic policy.

*****************************************************

📖"Art of the Deal" co-author Tony Schwartz: "Most of the deals in that book were failures. And the number of deals he's made over the years since then have overwhelmingly been failures." Trump is "really one of the worst" dealmakers I've come across.

❌NO DEAL on DACA.
❌NO DEAL on immigration.
❌NO DEAL on health care.
❌NO DEAL on gun control.
❌NO DEAL on spending cuts.
❌NO DEAL on Pacific trade.
❌NO DEAL on China trade.
❌NO DEAL on steel and aluminum imports.
❌NO DEAL on Middle East peace.
❌NO DEAL on Qatar blockade.
❌NO DEAL on Syria.
❌NO DEAL on Russia.
❌NO DEAL on Iran.
❌NO DEAL on Cuba.
❌NO DEAL on North Korea.
❌NO DEAL on climate change.

*****************************************************

🌎Global confidence in Trump (Pew):
🇸🇪Sweden: 10% (-83)
🇳🇱Netherlands: 17% (-75)
🇩🇪Germany: 11% (-75)
🇰🇷South Korea: 17% (-71)
🇫🇷France: 14% (-70)
🇪🇸Spain: 7% (-68)
🇨🇦Canada: 22% (-61)
🇬🇧UK: 22% (-57)
🇦🇺Australia: 29% (-55)
🇯🇵Japan: 24% (-54)
🇸🇳Senegal: 26% (-51)
🇧🇷Brazil: 14% (-49)
🇨🇱Chile: 12% (-48)
🇲🇽Mexico: 5% (-44)
🇮🇹Italy: 25% (-43)
🇮🇩Indonesia: 23% (-41)
🇨🇴Colombia: 15% (-41)
🇵🇪Peru: 17% (-36)
🇵🇱Poland: 23% (-35)
🇿🇦South Africa: 39% (-34)
🇹🇷Turkey: 11% (-34)
🇬🇭Ghana: 49% (-33)
🇰🇪Kenya: 51% (-32)
🇭🇺Hungary: 29% (-29)
🇹🇿Tanzania: 51% (-27)
🇦🇷Argentina: 13% (-27)
🇵🇭Philippines: 69% (-25)
🇬🇷Greece: 19% (-22)
🇱🇧Lebanon: 15% (-21)
🇮🇳India: 40% (-18)
🇻🇳Vietnam: 58% (-13)
🇹🇳Tunisia: 18% (-9)
🇻🇪Venezuela: 20% (-6)
🇳🇬Nigeria: 58% (-5)
🇯🇴Jordan: 9% (-5)
🇮🇱Israel: 56% (+7)
🇷🇺Russia: 53% (+42)
🗺Worldwide: 22% (-42)

📝NOTE/ U.S. leadership sank to its lowest point in nearly two decades in 2017, shattering the previous record low of 34% in the last year of George W. Bush's second term, and more than tripling the number of countries where the majorities disapprove of U.S. leadership, per Gallup.

🐘Late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.): Obama better than Trump "as far as American leadership is concerned."

📝UPDATE/ China's median global approval rating sits at 34% — the country's highest score since 2009. Meanwhile, the U.S. has a 31% approval rating, which is only a 1% increase from the "new record low" seen during the first year of Donald Trump's presidency. 2018 also marks the first time that the global approval rating of Russia — currently at 30% — has been on equal ground with the U.S.

*****************************************************

💥According to recent estimates by the United Nations and the U.S. Defense Department's inspector general, the self-described Islamic State has between 20,000 and 31,100 fighters ― figures nearly identical to CIA estimates of the terror group's strength in 2014 when it was near its zenith.

📊Pentagon spokesman Navy Cmdr. Sean Robertson: "Even after the liberation of ISIS controlled territory, ISIS probably is still more capable than al Qaeda in Iraq at its peak in 2006-2007."

☠️According to a new report by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), every single extremist murder in the US in 2018 had links to far-right ideology, making it one of the deadliest years in recent history. In addition, white supremacists increased their propaganda distribution by 182% last year.

*****************************************************

🔄In just 2 years, Trump has churned 65% of his most senior aides – a record that rivals the entire 4-year terms of his predecessors, per Brookings.

📝NOTE/ Mattis is the fourth member of Trump's cabinet to resign or be forced out in less than two months (and the third in less than two weeks).

🤝The U.S. ambassadors appointed by President Trump have given more financial support to his election than any group of ambassadors in recent history, even as they demonstrated fewer qualifications for the job, according to a new study of ambassadorial appointments over the last three decades (Axios).

*****************************************************

📉According to an analysis of EPA data by Cynthia Giles, who led the EPA's enforcement office under Obama, civil penalties for polluters in the last fiscal year declined to the lowest average since 1995.

📉In addition, the Associated Press reports the EPA last year pursued the lowest number of criminal prosecutions against polluters since 1988. And of the merely 166 cases that were referred for prosecution, only 62 federal convictions resulted—the lowest since 1995.

📉Furthermore, the number of white-collar crime prosecutions fell to the lowest level in 20 years after reaching a high in 2011 during the Obama administration, according to a case-by-case analysis of government data by Syracuse University's Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse.

⚖️For the first time in years, the United States is no longer in the top 20 least corrupt countries, according to the annual global corruption index compiled by Transparency International. "This decline comes at a time when the U.S. is experiencing threats to its system of checks and balances as well as an erosion of ethical norms at the highest levels of power," the report states, listing the United States as a country to watch.

⚖️In a new report, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) finds that there is compelling evidence that Trump may have personally committed up to eight criminal campaign finance and related offenses while running for president and during his first year in office.

*****************************************************

CRIMES COHEN HAS NOW PUBLICLY ACCUSED TRUMP OF*

1️⃣Bank Fraud
2️⃣Campaign Finance Violations
3️⃣False Ethics Filings
4️⃣Fraud
5️⃣Conspiracy**
6️⃣Making False Statements**

* According to MSNBC legal analysis.
** Based upon Stone-Trump WikiLeaks contact and Trump's knowledge of June 2016 meeting.

ADDITIONAL POSSIBLE TRUMP CRIMES IN COHEN TESTIMONY

* Knowledge of his Trump Organization subordinates physically threatening individuals to help Trump

* Additional unreported hush-money payments not previously disclosed by Cohen or media but intended to influence the campaign

📝NOTE/ Trump's longtime lawyer Michael Cohen, who spoke to Mueller's office 7 times, revealed in his testimony that he's aware of additional, unreported illegal acts by Trump.

📝NOTE2/ Special Counsel to court: "The information he has provided has been credible and consistent with other evidence obtained in the SCO's ongoing investigation."

*****************************************************

SHUT DOWN DUE TO ILLEGAL ACTIVITY:

🚨 TRUMP University
🚨 TRUMP Foundation

UNDER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION:

🚩 TRUMP
🚩 TRUMP Jr.
🚩 TRUMP Organization
🚩 TRUMP Campaign
🚩 TRUMP NatSec Advisory Committee
🚩 TRUMP Shadow NatSec Advisors
🚩 TRUMP Transition
🚩 TRUMP Inauguration
🚩 TRUMP Administration
🚩 TRUMP Allies (e.g., MBS)

CONVICTED:

✅ TRUMP Campaign Manager (Manafort)
✅ TRUMP Campaign Manager Associate (Kilimnik)
✅ TRUMP Deputy Campaign Manager (Gates)
✅ TRUMP Deputy Campaign Manager Associate (van der Swaan)
✅ TRUMP Lawyer (Cohen)
✅ TRUMP NSA (Flynn)
✅ TRUMP NatSec Adviser (Papadopoulos)

CRIMES COLLUSION CAN LEAD TO:

1⃣ Conspiracy to Commit Election Fraud
2⃣ Conspiracy to Defraud US
3⃣ Aiding/Abetting Computer Crimes
4⃣ Bribery
5⃣ Money Laundering
6⃣ Illegal Solicitation of Donations
7⃣ Obstruction
8⃣ Witness Tampering
9⃣ Making False Statements
🔟 FARA Crimes

COUNTRIES TRUMPS ILLEGALLY COLLUDED WITH PRE-ELECTION:

🇷🇺 RUSSIA
🇸🇦 SAUDI ARABIA
🇦🇪 THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
🇮🇱 ISRAEL
🇹🇷 TURKEY

COUNTRIES TRUMPS ARE SUSPECTED OF COLLUDING WITH PRE-ELECTION:

🇪🇬 Egypt
🇭🇺 Hungary

COUNTRIES TRUMPS COLLUDED WITH POST-ELECTION:

🇶🇦 QATAR
🇨🇳 CHINA

📝NOTE/ It's still only Phase 3 or 4 of 10 of the Trump-Russia saga and we already have 7 guilty pleas, 37 criminal charges, 199 criminal counts, and 4 prison sentences, therefore bringing the total number of prison sentences issued under Republican presidents (1968-2018) to 38, compared to 1 under Democratic presidents.

🐘Top Trump aide Sam Nunberg on Mueller probe: "These aren't guys you f**k around with. They have a strong case of a conspiracy."

👨🏼‍⚕️Trump's physician, whose office was raided by Trump's bodyguard: "Sweetheart, this is watergate, goodbye!"

📰NYT: Trump has publicly attacked the Russia investigation more than 1,100 times. He has done so at least once on 330 days, or about 43% of his time in office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 18, 2019, 12:55:45 PM
The above rant from Eamonnca1 is really a cry for help. It's quite disturbing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 18, 2019, 07:01:24 PM
LOL!!

(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/01/13/07/17084920/4/920x920.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 18, 2019, 10:39:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 18, 2019, 08:29:08 AM
🤥Trump averaged 15 false or misleading claims a day in 2018, according to WaPo. So far in 2019, Trump's averaging nearly 22 false claims a day.

🏌🏻‍♂️Trump has spent 397 days at his properties, amounting to more than half of his time in office and tens of millions in U.S. taxpayer dollars (NBC). Around 60% of Trump's scheduled time at the White House is spent in unstructured "Executive Time" (Axios).

🚫According to PolitiFact, Trump has failed to keep over 83% of his campaign promises after almost two years and despite total GOP control, failing to fund the border wall and pass "repeal and replacement" of Obamacare.

📊During his first year, Trump signed the fewest number of bills into law in over half a century (GovTrack), with more than half of those near record-low laws having to do with naming/stating something and modifying existing programs (NPR). About a third of Trump's deregulatory actions were started under Obama, while other actions had little impact, were part of actions typically taken by the federal government, or have not yet gone into effect (Bloomberg).

📝NOTE/ More than 90% of Trump's deregulatory efforts have been blocked in court, or withdrawn after a lawsuit, according to a running tally maintained by the Institute for Policy Integrity, a nonpartisan think tank sponsored by the New York University School of Law.

*****************************************************

💰Trump's tax law has failed to 1. simplify the code, increasing the number of tax expenditures from 216 to 233; 2. pay for itself, blowing another trillion dollar hole in the budget; 3. boost hiring or investment, resulting in little to no acceleration, and 4. raise real wages, breaking his promise of "a $4,000 pay hike".

💸Almost two-thirds of Americans polled say they haven't seen an increase in their take-home pay as a result of last year's GOP tax law (Gallup). According to a new American Barometer poll, only 33% of Americans say they are financially better off this year compared to last year. Also, 78% of full-time workers said they live paycheck to paycheck, up from 75% last year, according to a recent report from CareerBuilder. Overall, 71% of all U.S. workers said they're now in debt, up from 68% a year ago. NEW: A record 7 million Americans are 3 months behind on their car payments, the highest number in history according to a study released by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

🐘Florida Sen. Marco Rubio (R): "There's no evidence whatsoever that the money's been massively poured back into the American worker."

🐘Retiring Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker (R): Tax cuts could be "one of the worst votes I've made."

🕰National Debt Clock Manager Douglas Durst: "The tax cut was an overall step in the wrong direction. Nobody who has any background in economics thought the tax bill was a good idea."

*****************************************************

📈The gross national debt has surpassed $22 trillion for the first time in U.S. history, with the interest that we pay on the debt becoming the fastest growing part of the budget, and as deficits soar under Trump and the GOP tax law, widening by 77% in the first four months of fiscal 2019.

📉Economic sentiment is at a new low under Trump, according to a new survey of 43 top economists, fund managers, and market strategists.

📉U.S. household wealth fell by a record $3.8 trillion, or 3.5%, at the end of 2018, and corporate bond issuance plummeted as a global market rout threatened to weaken a near-decade old recovery, according to Federal Reserve data.

📉U.S. stocks ended 2018 with their worst year since 2008, which was during the Great Recession, and their worst December since 1931, which was during the Great Depression.

📉Stock gains⬇️
👷‍♂️Job gains⬇️
🏬Retail sales⬇️
🚶‍♂️Move rate⬇️
⛺️Homelessness⬆️
🏥Uninsured rate⬆️
💊Health costs⬆️
🌐Trade deficit⬆️
📈Budget deficit⬆️

📝NOTE/ The unemployment rate has barely budged, the labor participation rate is still lagging, the GDP growth rate is now slowing, and wage growth is getting better but has barely grown and is still below the target needed to *begin* to reap the benefits of economic growth while the workers' share of corporate income has remained stagnant and far from recovery.

📝NOTE2/ As far as Trump's claims that the US economy is the "best ever", performance under his tenure ranks 6th out of the past 7 presidents with 12 of 14 metrics registering avg to below avg improvement. https://bloom.bg/2RRQL8W

📝NOTE3/ According to a NYT review of surveys of about 50 leading economists — liberals and conservatives — run by the University of Chicago:

🤝Trade Policy: F
💸Fiscal Policy: D-
🏦Monetary Policy: C

🏦Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell: "Financial markets became more volatile toward year-end, and financial conditions are now less supportive of growth than they were earlier last year."

🏦Fmr. Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen: Trump has "no" grasp of macroeconomic policy.

*****************************************************

📖"Art of the Deal" co-author Tony Schwartz: "Most of the deals in that book were failures. And the number of deals he's made over the years since then have overwhelmingly been failures." Trump is "really one of the worst" dealmakers I've come across.

❌NO DEAL on DACA.
❌NO DEAL on immigration.
❌NO DEAL on health care.
❌NO DEAL on gun control.
❌NO DEAL on spending cuts.
❌NO DEAL on Pacific trade.
❌NO DEAL on China trade.
❌NO DEAL on steel and aluminum imports.
❌NO DEAL on Middle East peace.
❌NO DEAL on Qatar blockade.
❌NO DEAL on Syria.
❌NO DEAL on Russia.
❌NO DEAL on Iran.
❌NO DEAL on Cuba.
❌NO DEAL on North Korea.
❌NO DEAL on climate change.

*****************************************************

🌎Global confidence in Trump (Pew):
🇸🇪Sweden: 10% (-83)
🇳🇱Netherlands: 17% (-75)
🇩🇪Germany: 11% (-75)
🇰🇷South Korea: 17% (-71)
🇫🇷France: 14% (-70)
🇪🇸Spain: 7% (-68)
🇨🇦Canada: 22% (-61)
🇬🇧UK: 22% (-57)
🇦🇺Australia: 29% (-55)
🇯🇵Japan: 24% (-54)
🇸🇳Senegal: 26% (-51)
🇧🇷Brazil: 14% (-49)
🇨🇱Chile: 12% (-48)
🇲🇽Mexico: 5% (-44)
🇮🇹Italy: 25% (-43)
🇮🇩Indonesia: 23% (-41)
🇨🇴Colombia: 15% (-41)
🇵🇪Peru: 17% (-36)
🇵🇱Poland: 23% (-35)
🇿🇦South Africa: 39% (-34)
🇹🇷Turkey: 11% (-34)
🇬🇭Ghana: 49% (-33)
🇰🇪Kenya: 51% (-32)
🇭🇺Hungary: 29% (-29)
🇹🇿Tanzania: 51% (-27)
🇦🇷Argentina: 13% (-27)
🇵🇭Philippines: 69% (-25)
🇬🇷Greece: 19% (-22)
🇱🇧Lebanon: 15% (-21)
🇮🇳India: 40% (-18)
🇻🇳Vietnam: 58% (-13)
🇹🇳Tunisia: 18% (-9)
🇻🇪Venezuela: 20% (-6)
🇳🇬Nigeria: 58% (-5)
🇯🇴Jordan: 9% (-5)
🇮🇱Israel: 56% (+7)
🇷🇺Russia: 53% (+42)
🗺Worldwide: 22% (-42)

📝NOTE/ U.S. leadership sank to its lowest point in nearly two decades in 2017, shattering the previous record low of 34% in the last year of George W. Bush's second term, and more than tripling the number of countries where the majorities disapprove of U.S. leadership, per Gallup.

🐘Late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.): Obama better than Trump "as far as American leadership is concerned."

📝UPDATE/ China's median global approval rating sits at 34% — the country's highest score since 2009. Meanwhile, the U.S. has a 31% approval rating, which is only a 1% increase from the "new record low" seen during the first year of Donald Trump's presidency. 2018 also marks the first time that the global approval rating of Russia — currently at 30% — has been on equal ground with the U.S.

*****************************************************

💥According to recent estimates by the United Nations and the U.S. Defense Department's inspector general, the self-described Islamic State has between 20,000 and 31,100 fighters ― figures nearly identical to CIA estimates of the terror group's strength in 2014 when it was near its zenith.

📊Pentagon spokesman Navy Cmdr. Sean Robertson: "Even after the liberation of ISIS controlled territory, ISIS probably is still more capable than al Qaeda in Iraq at its peak in 2006-2007."

☠️According to a new report by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), every single extremist murder in the US in 2018 had links to far-right ideology, making it one of the deadliest years in recent history. In addition, white supremacists increased their propaganda distribution by 182% last year.

*****************************************************

🔄In just 2 years, Trump has churned 65% of his most senior aides – a record that rivals the entire 4-year terms of his predecessors, per Brookings.

📝NOTE/ Mattis is the fourth member of Trump's cabinet to resign or be forced out in less than two months (and the third in less than two weeks).

🤝The U.S. ambassadors appointed by President Trump have given more financial support to his election than any group of ambassadors in recent history, even as they demonstrated fewer qualifications for the job, according to a new study of ambassadorial appointments over the last three decades (Axios).

*****************************************************

📉According to an analysis of EPA data by Cynthia Giles, who led the EPA's enforcement office under Obama, civil penalties for polluters in the last fiscal year declined to the lowest average since 1995.

📉In addition, the Associated Press reports the EPA last year pursued the lowest number of criminal prosecutions against polluters since 1988. And of the merely 166 cases that were referred for prosecution, only 62 federal convictions resulted—the lowest since 1995.

📉Furthermore, the number of white-collar crime prosecutions fell to the lowest level in 20 years after reaching a high in 2011 during the Obama administration, according to a case-by-case analysis of government data by Syracuse University's Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse.

⚖️For the first time in years, the United States is no longer in the top 20 least corrupt countries, according to the annual global corruption index compiled by Transparency International. "This decline comes at a time when the U.S. is experiencing threats to its system of checks and balances as well as an erosion of ethical norms at the highest levels of power," the report states, listing the United States as a country to watch.

⚖️In a new report, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) finds that there is compelling evidence that Trump may have personally committed up to eight criminal campaign finance and related offenses while running for president and during his first year in office.

*****************************************************

CRIMES COHEN HAS NOW PUBLICLY ACCUSED TRUMP OF*

1️⃣Bank Fraud
2️⃣Campaign Finance Violations
3️⃣False Ethics Filings
4️⃣Fraud
5️⃣Conspiracy**
6️⃣Making False Statements**

* According to MSNBC legal analysis.
** Based upon Stone-Trump WikiLeaks contact and Trump's knowledge of June 2016 meeting.

ADDITIONAL POSSIBLE TRUMP CRIMES IN COHEN TESTIMONY

* Knowledge of his Trump Organization subordinates physically threatening individuals to help Trump

* Additional unreported hush-money payments not previously disclosed by Cohen or media but intended to influence the campaign

📝NOTE/ Trump's longtime lawyer Michael Cohen, who spoke to Mueller's office 7 times, revealed in his testimony that he's aware of additional, unreported illegal acts by Trump.

📝NOTE2/ Special Counsel to court: "The information he has provided has been credible and consistent with other evidence obtained in the SCO's ongoing investigation."

*****************************************************

SHUT DOWN DUE TO ILLEGAL ACTIVITY:

🚨 TRUMP University
🚨 TRUMP Foundation

UNDER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION:

🚩 TRUMP
🚩 TRUMP Jr.
🚩 TRUMP Organization
🚩 TRUMP Campaign
🚩 TRUMP NatSec Advisory Committee
🚩 TRUMP Shadow NatSec Advisors
🚩 TRUMP Transition
🚩 TRUMP Inauguration
🚩 TRUMP Administration
🚩 TRUMP Allies (e.g., MBS)

CONVICTED:

✅ TRUMP Campaign Manager (Manafort)
✅ TRUMP Campaign Manager Associate (Kilimnik)
✅ TRUMP Deputy Campaign Manager (Gates)
✅ TRUMP Deputy Campaign Manager Associate (van der Swaan)
✅ TRUMP Lawyer (Cohen)
✅ TRUMP NSA (Flynn)
✅ TRUMP NatSec Adviser (Papadopoulos)

CRIMES COLLUSION CAN LEAD TO:

1⃣ Conspiracy to Commit Election Fraud
2⃣ Conspiracy to Defraud US
3⃣ Aiding/Abetting Computer Crimes
4⃣ Bribery
5⃣ Money Laundering
6⃣ Illegal Solicitation of Donations
7⃣ Obstruction
8⃣ Witness Tampering
9⃣ Making False Statements
🔟 FARA Crimes

COUNTRIES TRUMPS ILLEGALLY COLLUDED WITH PRE-ELECTION:

🇷🇺 RUSSIA
🇸🇦 SAUDI ARABIA
🇦🇪 THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
🇮🇱 ISRAEL
🇹🇷 TURKEY

COUNTRIES TRUMPS ARE SUSPECTED OF COLLUDING WITH PRE-ELECTION:

🇪🇬 Egypt
🇭🇺 Hungary

COUNTRIES TRUMPS COLLUDED WITH POST-ELECTION:

🇶🇦 QATAR
🇨🇳 CHINA

📝NOTE/ It's still only Phase 3 or 4 of 10 of the Trump-Russia saga and we already have 7 guilty pleas, 37 criminal charges, 199 criminal counts, and 4 prison sentences, therefore bringing the total number of prison sentences issued under Republican presidents (1968-2018) to 38, compared to 1 under Democratic presidents.

🐘Top Trump aide Sam Nunberg on Mueller probe: "These aren't guys you f**k around with. They have a strong case of a conspiracy."

👨🏼‍⚕️Trump's physician, whose office was raided by Trump's bodyguard: "Sweetheart, this is watergate, goodbye!"

📰NYT: Trump has publicly attacked the Russia investigation more than 1,100 times. He has done so at least once on 330 days, or about 43% of his time in office.
Christy Almighty!!
Eamonn, do you seriously believe that anyone will plough through that pile of shite? ;D ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 18, 2019, 10:58:30 PM
There's some amount of lies in that piece from my favourite fiction writer Eamonnca1/Sid Waddell. It's the new strategy from the democrats, similar to all these new investigations they are starting.
The hope is to tie up the Trump administration to deal with the allegations and "scandals" that they don't have time to actually focus on the job at hand. That is disgraceful and has been from the day Hillary lost (and beforehand with the Obama spying etc.)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 19, 2019, 12:05:57 AM
That's Trump's game plan. Pile the f**k-ups so high it'd take all day to read through them. Same as how he piles the lies up so high it'd take all day to refute them. Why do you think his lie rate has increased from 18 false or misleading statements per day to 22 false or misleading statements per day? Why do you think he's going for the indictment record?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 19, 2019, 12:36:33 AM
G lads the pair u killing this thread. The pair of u not take a break. Its very noticeable Dolph this is the only thread u comment on. Ever hear of gaelic football
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 19, 2019, 12:41:34 AM
One more thing:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54462551_2948717975215886_1218203031821090816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=435779e037f71ddfffb8ed9b6ed88d6f&oe=5D090A19)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on March 19, 2019, 11:21:10 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 19, 2019, 12:36:33 AM
G lads the pair u killing this thread. The pair of u not take a break. Its very noticeable Dolph this is the only thread u comment on. Ever hear of gaelic football

Or hurling........ 


;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 19, 2019, 11:41:07 AM
Don't forget Camoige you sexist pigs ;)

and Handball.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on March 19, 2019, 11:47:44 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 19, 2019, 11:41:07 AM
Don't forget Camoige you sexist pigs ;)

and Handball.

Displaying your huge knowledge of Gaelic Games there Dolph. I'll let you off on the spelling/fat fingers.

There's more than one string to your bow it seems..... ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 20, 2019, 03:16:05 PM
Most of the democrat politicians are floating reparations as a promise if elected. How can anyone think this is a good idea?
The people in question have been dead for over 100 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2019, 07:18:12 AM
Tulsi Gaaboard is also in the presidential running.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on March 21, 2019, 08:51:56 AM
Next week Trump picks a fight with William Wallace for not thanking him for redeveloping Trump Turnberry. But that's OK. That's OK.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2019, 10:00:33 AM
You think he can't sink any lower and then another new day dawns!

I don't know which is worse - the narcissistic whining over supposedly not being thanked for McCain's funeral (which he was banished from) or a utter, contemptible worm like him having the gall to call another man the "worst husband ever"!

I go for the latter. The McCain thing is par for the course. Kelly Ann Conway's husband... Trump is the man who cheated on multiple wives, was accused of rape by one of them, cheated on another with porn stars and Playboy models when she was pregnant/breastfeeding, has more than 20 allegations of sexual assault and harrassment and counting, boasted of "grabbing women by the pussy", stated on national radio that he'd basically like to f**k his big-titted daughter. Worst husband ever indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 21, 2019, 10:13:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2019, 07:18:12 AM
Tulsi Gaaboard is also in the presidential running.

She hasn't a hope and her own party will make sure she doesn't. I think she's bright and articulate but that's not what is wanted by the left now.
Not enough crazy ideas to appease the new radicals. You get what you give, right?.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 22, 2019, 07:03:16 PM
God sent Trump to save the Jewish people according to Pompeo

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/435240-pompeo-says-its-possible-trump-was-sent-to-save-jewish-people

Transcript
Interviewer: Today's being Purim, a celebration of Jews worldwide, and here in Jerusalem we're talking about the fact that Esther, 2500 years ago, saved the Jewish people, with God's help from Haman, and now, 2500 years later, there's a new Haman here in the Middle East, that wants to eradicate the Jewish people just like Haman did, the state of Iran (Pompeo nods knowingly).  Could it be that President T***p right now, has been sort of raised for a time like this, just like Queen Esther, to help save the Jewish people from an Iranian menace?

Pompeo: As a Christian, I certainly believe that's possible.  It was remarkable, so we were down down into the tunnels, where we could see 3,000 years ago, and 2,000 years ago, if I have the history just right, to see the remarkable history of the faith in this place, and the work that our administration has done to make sure that this democracy in the Middle East of this Jewish state remains.  I'm confident that the Lord is at work here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 22, 2019, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: dec on March 22, 2019, 07:03:16 PM
God sent Trump to save the Jewish people according to Pompeo

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/435240-pompeo-says-its-possible-trump-was-sent-to-save-jewish-people

Transcript
Interviewer: Today's being Purim, a celebration of Jews worldwide, and here in Jerusalem we're talking about the fact that Esther, 2500 years ago, saved the Jewish people, with God's help from Haman, and now, 2500 years later, there's a new Haman here in the Middle East, that wants to eradicate the Jewish people just like Haman did, the state of Iran (Pompeo nods knowingly).  Could it be that President T***p right now, has been sort of raised for a time like this, just like Queen Esther, to help save the Jewish people from an Iranian menace?

Pompeo: As a Christian, I certainly believe that's possible.  It was remarkable, so we were down down into the tunnels, where we could see 3,000 years ago, and 2,000 years ago, if I have the history just right, to see the remarkable history of the faith in this place, and the work that our administration has done to make sure that this democracy in the Middle East of this Jewish state remains.  I'm confident that the Lord is at work here.

God sent Trump to save mankind. He's already done that with de-escalating the situation with North Korea and Russia.
Obama was leading the world down a bad path.


In Trump we trust.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 22, 2019, 08:20:52 PM
Quote from: dec on March 22, 2019, 07:03:16 PM
God sent Trump to save the Jewish people according to Pompeo

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/435240-pompeo-says-its-possible-trump-was-sent-to-save-jewish-people

Transcript
Interviewer: Today's being Purim, a celebration of Jews worldwide, and here in Jerusalem we're talking about the fact that Esther, 2500 years ago, saved the Jewish people, with God's help from Haman, and now, 2500 years later, there's a new Haman here in the Middle East, that wants to eradicate the Jewish people just like Haman did, the state of Iran (Pompeo nods knowingly).  Could it be that President T***p right now, has been sort of raised for a time like this, just like Queen Esther, to help save the Jewish people from an Iranian menace?

Pompeo: As a Christian, I certainly believe that's possible.  It was remarkable, so we were down down into the tunnels, where we could see 3,000 years ago, and 2,000 years ago, if I have the history just right, to see the remarkable history of the faith in this place, and the work that our administration has done to make sure that this democracy in the Middle East of this Jewish state remains.  I'm confident that the Lord is at work here.

God help us.

Although it's interesting to see that Aipac has become a distinctly conservative gathering, which is in line with Israel's lurch to the right. The days of bipartisan loyalty to Israel would seem to be over. There's only so much mileage conservatives can get out of playing the bogus antisemitism card every time someone criticizes Israeli apartheid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 22, 2019, 09:05:58 PM
QuoteWASHINGTON (AP) — Justice Department: Special counsel Robert Mueller closes Russia investigation, delivers report to Attorney General Barr.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 22, 2019, 09:09:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 22, 2019, 09:05:58 PM
QuoteWASHINGTON (AP) — Justice Department: Special counsel Robert Mueller closes Russia investigation, delivers report to Attorney General Barr.

They could put on some primetime Oscar type show with a gold envelope to tell if there was any collusion or not.

Or a Maury style DNA test result.

Donald......you have NOT colluded.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 22, 2019, 09:26:45 PM
It's Mueller time!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Shamrock Shore on March 22, 2019, 10:29:26 PM
I expect a damp squib
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2019, 12:44:19 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on March 22, 2019, 10:29:26 PM
I expect a damp squib
to quote van jones a nothing burger
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 23, 2019, 09:38:46 AM
This will be like when his tax return was illegally leaked and the news outlets tripped over each other to report it without checking it first. It actually proved he paid more than most with regards taxes. Maddow was like a child on Christmas morning who didn't get what it wanted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on March 24, 2019, 12:12:20 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 22, 2019, 09:26:45 PM
It's Mueller time!

A crock of complete shit, Russian collusion yeah right. Trump involved with Russians. Sure  ::)
It it unreal that two years was spent on this.
What's next for Democrats,
They are devoid of any ideas.
Wonder what is there (your) next act.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2019, 05:20:49 AM
Trump has already broken Nixon's record for the number of criminal indictments. "Witch-hunt" my ass.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 24, 2019, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 24, 2019, 12:12:20 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 22, 2019, 09:26:45 PM
It's Mueller time!

A crock of complete shit, Russian collusion yeah right. Trump involved with Russians. Sure  ::)
It it unreal that two years was spent on this.
What's next for Democrats,
They are devoid of any ideas.
Wonder what is there (your) next act.
Isn't it obvious? "The Russians" got to Mueller too. :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 24, 2019, 08:27:17 PM
So there was nothing. How much was spent on this nonsense?
Whichever democrat wins the ticket has an uphill task in 2020.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 24, 2019, 09:07:18 PM
The report doesn't actually exonerate Trump though even though he's after tweeting it has.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 24, 2019, 09:14:24 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 24, 2019, 09:07:18 PM
The report doesn't actually exonerate Trump though even though he's after tweeting it has.
We should know more than most...
"Innocent until proven guilty"...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 24, 2019, 09:16:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 24, 2019, 09:14:24 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 24, 2019, 09:07:18 PM
The report doesn't actually exonerate Trump though even though he's after tweeting it has.
We should know more than most...
"Innocent until proven guilty"...

I'm not arguing that. I just said it didn't exonerate him as his tweet suggested.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 24, 2019, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 24, 2019, 09:16:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 24, 2019, 09:14:24 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 24, 2019, 09:07:18 PM
The report doesn't actually exonerate Trump though even though he's after tweeting it has.
We should know more than most...
"Innocent until proven guilty"...

I'm not arguing that. I just said it didn't exonerate him as his tweet suggested.
I'd say it kind of does under the premise of innocent until proven guilty.
Its wordplay to suggest otherwise.

This was a huge idiotic wild goose chase to go after trump with. I'm sure there are many other things he could be hung out to dry on.. but these big ticket ones those idiot Democrats  chose to pursue are just completely obviously false!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 01:49:01 AM
I told you so Eamonnca1  :-*

Will all those who accused President Trump of colluding with Russia be man enough to admit they were wrong?

Surely the anti-Trump camp aren't going to continue pushing the collusion theory. Democrat mental cases like Adam Schitt are planning to try.

If there are any neutrals reading this maybe this is the evidence you needed to see to show that the President has been telling the truth the whole way through.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: heganboy on March 25, 2019, 02:00:33 AM
i'ts going to be an interesting read of the actual report. Barr's summary is interesting, and Barr clearly is positioning that there is no smoking gun, however the idea that there is not enough evidence for prosecution is very different from an exoneration.

Let's be honest though, Trump looks like he has dodged at least this bullet.  Not that he didn't collude with Russia, but that there isn't enough evidence available to the Special Investigator to convict him.

However this is the kicker:

Quotethe President has been telling the truth the whole way through

im not sure he knows what the truth even is as a concept
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 25, 2019, 10:59:47 AM
Trump off the hook for now and social media in complete melt down on both sides . . . just a normal day I suppose.

A lot seem to think this hands him re-election. I can't see that there's far too much still to happen between now and then for it to be a foregone conclusion. As long as the Dems don't scratch eachothers eyes out there looks to be a couple in there who could properly challenge Trump without Hillary's baggage and the only reason Trump won is because of Hillary.

Also there are still multiple investigations into Trump ongoing so he's not completely out of the woods yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2019, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 24, 2019, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 24, 2019, 09:16:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 24, 2019, 09:14:24 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 24, 2019, 09:07:18 PM
The report doesn't actually exonerate Trump though even though he's after tweeting it has.
We should know more than most...
"Innocent until proven guilty"...

I'm not arguing that. I just said it didn't exonerate him as his tweet suggested.
I'd say it kind of does under the premise of innocent until proven guilty.
Its wordplay to suggest otherwise.

This was a huge idiotic wild goose chase to go after trump with. I'm sure there are many other things he could be hung out to dry on.. but these big ticket ones those idiot Democrats  chose to pursue are just completely obviously false!!

HIS Justice Dept opened the Mueller investigation in response to, among other things, Trump admitting on national television that he had fired Comey because of the Russia thing.

Dems had no power whatsoever to open anything at the time.

It is rather curious though that so many of the lads got caught lying about issues connected to Russia if they all had nothing to hide. And that his legal representatives wouldn't even let Trump testify, so afraid were they of him getting himself in trouble over his inability to tell the truth.

Personally, I don't give a bollocks. I never expected anything to happen to Trump, no matter what the truth is, because this shit is ALL political in the US. I'm just annoyed that I have to ignore the news for the next few days as the odious sc**bag does a lap of honour and then we're back to square one as the various state investigations continue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2019, 11:21:01 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 25, 2019, 10:59:47 AM
Trump off the hook for now and social media in complete melt down on both sides . . . just a normal day I suppose.

A lot seem to think this hands him re-election. I can't see that there's far too much still to happen between now and then for it to be a foregone conclusion. As long as the Dems don't scratch eachothers eyes out there looks to be a couple in there who could properly challenge Trump without Hillary's baggage and the only reason Trump won is because of Hillary.

Also there are still multiple investigations into Trump ongoing so he's not completely out of the woods yet.

Its way too early to predict anything about next year's election.

A lot is going to depend on who the Dems nominate and whether that person is fit to get down in the gutter with a shameless lowlife like Trump. So far, its rather uninspiring stuff.

And, of course, events and developments will all play a huge part.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 11:43:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2019, 11:21:01 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 25, 2019, 10:59:47 AM
Trump off the hook for now and social media in complete melt down on both sides . . . just a normal day I suppose.

A lot seem to think this hands him re-election. I can't see that there's far too much still to happen between now and then for it to be a foregone conclusion. As long as the Dems don't scratch eachothers eyes out there looks to be a couple in there who could properly challenge Trump without Hillary's baggage and the only reason Trump won is because of Hillary.

Also there are still multiple investigations into Trump ongoing so he's not completely out of the woods yet.

Its way too early to predict anything about next year's election.

A lot is going to depend on who the Dems nominate and whether that person is fit to get down in the gutter with a shameless lowlife like Trump. So far, its rather uninspiring stuff.

And, of course, events and developments will all play a huge part.
Especially the economy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 25, 2019, 12:12:46 PM
Is the economy going to hold up??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 25, 2019, 12:12:46 PM
Is the economy going to hold up??

It's going to blow up again but whether  or not it does before the next election is the big question
Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

In order to be ready for it the US needs a budget surplus and interest rates of at least 5%.
Both are currently in "not a snowball's " territory 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:39:11 PM
Quote from: heganboy on March 25, 2019, 02:00:33 AM
However this is the kicker:

Quotethe President has been telling the truth the whole way through

im not sure he knows what the truth even is as a concept

Is it the kicker because after 2 years they still couldn't find anything to pin on him?

Seriously lads, you just look like fools trying to justify the investigation. For those now saying that it was a republican investigation I believe for quite some time you were massive Mueller cheerleaders, not to mention that  sizeable amount of his team were democrats. You think if there was a chance to make their case and find the president guilty they wouldn't have taken it.

He's not guilty. Let it go and salvage whatever dignity you have.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2019, 12:55:59 PM
Quote"While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on March 25, 2019, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 25, 2019, 12:12:46 PM
Is the economy going to hold up??

It's going to blow up again but whether  or not it does before the next election is the big question
Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

In order to be ready for it the US needs a budget surplus and interest rates of at least 5%.
Both are currently in "not a snowball's " territory

.

Economic cycles are cyclical, this expansion has lasted ten years, extended somewhat by the pro business policies of Trump government, coupled with trump tax cuts. It will without a doubt come to and end, like all others.
Reason US rates so low is that rates in Japan and Europe have turned negative. Why does any developed economy need 5% interest rates,  (to cause a recession ?).
Despite what a lot of Dems would like you to believe, the economy here is still booming, unemployment levels still below 4%, i.e full employment, wages have gone up because of this.
Due to the above, the only thing they could do was bash him for past two years, he is far far from perfect, and has made a lot of mistakes.
I have mentioned before, can somebody please tell us, what democrats actually stand for and what are their economic goals/ambitions.
Certainly not impressed with what they rolled out so far.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 02:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 25, 2019, 10:59:47 AM
Trump off the hook for now and social media in complete melt down on both sides . . . just a normal day I suppose.

A lot seem to think this hands him re-election. I can't see that there's far too much still to happen between now and then for it to be a foregone conclusion. As long as the Dems don't scratch eachothers eyes out there looks to be a couple in there who could properly challenge Trump without Hillary's baggage and the only reason Trump won is because of Hillary.

Also there are still multiple investigations into Trump ongoing so he's not completely out of the woods yet.

You mean more made up stuff by the Democrats. Are you still pinning your hopes of impeachment on Stormy Daniels?
I see Nadler and Schitt are squirming right now trying to make out that if they don't release all the Mueller papers then there must be something to hide. Yet they still try to obstruct the FISA warrants and the Hillary investigation. It's time to come out and say the Russia Collusion story was a political ploy to delegitimize Trump.


I'm looking forward to watching all the public apologies to President Trump from the Fake news media and democrat politicians. Especially Don LeMon. Odious sc**bag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2019, 09:52:26 PM
The bottom line for the Democrats and most television networks is to oust trump no matter how they do it , Rachel Maddow is crying on live tv that there was no collusion and some other clown is saying it's white privilege that got him and his family off the hook , they have been selling a lie for 2 years they should be ashamed of themselves
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2019, 09:54:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2019, 09:52:26 PM
The bottom line for the Democrats and most television networks is to oust trump no matter how they do it ,

This increases both in my estimation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 10:48:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2019, 09:54:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2019, 09:52:26 PM
The bottom line for the Democrats and most television networks is to oust trump no matter how they do it ,

This increases both in my estimation.

So you are saying that fitting someone up for a crime they did not commit and continue to say that it is fact is ok?

Considering your alias name has Armagh in it what short memories eh?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on March 26, 2019, 12:10:07 AM
I've been reading the political internet tealeaves again with a particular eye on my good friends further to the right of the political spectrum and I've once again feel compelled to write something here when I really do have more important things to be doing. But anyway...

If anyone could care to look back when I last bothered to post on us politics I did say Muller would turn up nothing. It doesn't actually matter. Trump has effectively dropped his agenda that got him elected. Yes the wall may be built potentially but it's been clear that the policies that are more important aren't going to change. Catch and release border control is being utilized, birth right citizenship won't be touched, immigration courts are clogged and Trump was cheerleading immigration like a standard Republican to help grow the economy. He's got a massive hard-on for Israel and is showing signs of going back on his original anti-interventionist stance. He's been boxed in by the party establishment and while he might still tweet a good game he's actually not doing anything he promised that someone like Jeb or Mitt Romney wouldn't have done. That's probably why the Muller report is going away if you allow me to wear my tinfoil hat for a minute. He gets to still play President for a bit more but he's dancing to the establishments tune.

So if you're a Democrat I wouldn't worry about this. A significant chunk of Trumps voting base who haven't got their head up his ass have finally given up on him and won't be voting for him or any republican in 2020. So long as the Democrats don't put forward someone utterly toxic they'll win easily. Bearing in mind that the demographic that voted for Trump is also dying of old age, opiate overdoses and suicide at unprecedented rates (a cruel statistic but none the less may prove significant given the fine margin that Trump won by).

Given the above I have a strong feeling that Trump won't be re-elected. In fact if the Democrats play it right like going with someone who has cross over appeal like Andrew Yang it may well be a landslide. But that said I have doubts Yang could get nominated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on March 26, 2019, 12:12:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2019, 09:54:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2019, 09:52:26 PM
The bottom line for the Democrats and most television networks is to oust trump no matter how they do it ,

This increases both in my estimation.

What about Justice Kavanagh and the Covington catholic school coverage?

You should be very embarrassed by that comment, you obviously do not live in the United States.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2019, 02:32:23 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2019, 09:52:26 PM
The bottom line for the Democrats and most television networks is to oust trump no matter how they do it , Rachel Maddow is crying on live tv that there was no collusion and some other clown is saying it's white privilege that got him and his family off the hook , they have been selling a lie for 2 years they should be ashamed of themselves

Were you ashamed of the GOP over the birther stuff, led by the now president and tacitly endorsed all the way to the Speaker at the time?

Were you ashamed by the likes of Jade Helm? Are you ashamed of the GOP's general embrace of ignorance, anti-intellectualism and bigotry?

Are you ashamed of Trump cosying up to men like Alex Jones? David Duke? The refusal to unequivocally condemn white nationalism and racism?

Are you ashamed of Trump palling around with murderous, dictatorial strongmen while basically telling longtime US allies to go f**k themselves?

Are you ashamed of Trump purposely and callously having crying babies torn from their mothers and tossed into the terror of the immigration detention system to try to intimidate other would be illegal immigrants?

Are you ashamed of Trump's stunningly cynical and appalling record on environmental issues?

Are you ashamed of his utter ignorance on a plethora of issues and his bald-faced lying on even more?

Are you ashamed of his unprecedentedly appalling personal conduct as president? As a human being?

I could go on, but you get the picture. Take your sanctimony elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 26, 2019, 08:41:34 AM
Quote from: thejuice on March 26, 2019, 12:10:07 AM
I've been reading the political internet tealeaves again with a particular eye on my good friends further to the right of the political spectrum and I've once again feel compelled to write something here when I really do have more important things to be doing. But anyway...

If anyone could care to look back when I last bothered to post on us politics I did say Muller would turn up nothing. It doesn't actually matter. Trump has effectively dropped his agenda that got him elected. Yes the wall may be built potentially but it's been clear that the policies that are more important aren't going to change. Catch and release border control is being utilized, birth right citizenship won't be touched, immigration courts are clogged and Trump was cheerleading immigration like a standard Republican to help grow the economy. He's got a massive hard-on for Israel and is showing signs of going back on his original anti-interventionist stance. He's been boxed in by the party establishment and while he might still tweet a good game he's actually not doing anything he promised that someone like Jeb or Mitt Romney wouldn't have done. That's probably why the Muller report is going away if you allow me to wear my tinfoil hat for a minute. He gets to still play President for a bit more but he's dancing to the establishments tune.

So if you're a Democrat I wouldn't worry about this. A significant chunk of Trumps voting base who haven't got their head up his ass have finally given up on him and won't be voting for him or any republican in 2020. So long as the Democrats don't put forward someone utterly toxic they'll win easily. Bearing in mind that the demographic that voted for Trump is also dying of old age, opiate overdoses and suicide at unprecedented rates (a cruel statistic but none the less may prove significant given the fine margin that Trump won by).

Given the above I have a strong feeling that Trump won't be re-elected. In fact if the Democrats play it right like going with someone who has cross over appeal like Andrew Yang it may well be a landslide. But that said I have doubts Yang could get nominated.
Women hate him and he seems to be stuck om approval levels consistent with the size of the Evangelical vote
Plus he hasn't delivered economically for blue collar voters.
I think it's very like Brexit. A plutocrat scam
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 26, 2019, 09:12:42 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

Strange one alright. . . Obama inherited a failing economy which needed spending to prop it up. Trump inherited the boom time and decides that rather than the US pay its dues it's party time for rich people to pay as little tax as possible.

But yeah Obama!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:07:20 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

Seriously?

You're asking him a real question which needs an evidence-based answer?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 26, 2019, 12:47:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

You must be new here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

The evidence is all there if you want to investigate it, which I'm sure you won't.

Every other president in American history, even the really bad ones, had at least one year when U.S. GDP grew by at least 3 percent.  But this did not happened under Obama even though he has had two terms in the White House.

Obama doubled the national debt from 10 to 20 trillion.

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2017/01/01/total%20debt%20under%20obama%202016_0.jpg)

But let's pretend that the economic recovery under Trump is all thanks to that spoofer Obama if it makes the snowflakes feel better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 12:58:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:07:20 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

Seriously?

You're asking him a real question which needs an evidence-based answer?

So if talking about evidence-based answers will you now admit the Russia collusion charge was a politically motivated hoax?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2019, 01:27:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 02:32:23 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2019, 09:52:26 PM
The bottom line for the Democrats and most television networks is to oust trump no matter how they do it , Rachel Maddow is crying on live tv that there was no collusion and some other clown is saying it's white privilege that got him and his family off the hook , they have been selling a lie for 2 years they should be ashamed of themselves

Were you ashamed of the GOP over the birther stuff, led by the now president and tacitly endorsed all the way to the Speaker at the time?

Were you ashamed by the likes of Jade Helm? Are you ashamed of the GOP's general embrace of ignorance, anti-intellectualism and bigotry?

Are you ashamed of Trump cosying up to men like Alex Jones? David Duke? The refusal to unequivocally condemn white nationalism and racism?

Are you ashamed of Trump palling around with murderous, dictatorial strongmen while basically telling longtime US allies to go f**k themselves?

Are you ashamed of Trump purposely and callously having crying babies torn from their mothers and tossed into the terror of the immigration detention system to try to intimidate other would be illegal immigrants?

Are you ashamed of Trump's stunningly cynical and appalling record on environmental issues?

Are you ashamed of his utter ignorance on a plethora of issues and his bald-faced lying on even more?

Are you ashamed of his unprecedentedly appalling personal conduct as president? As a human being?

I could go on, but you get the picture. Take your sanctimony elsewhere.
I was talking about the news networks who sold a fake story for 2 years even though they knew it was fake because they didn't want to accept the outcome of the election.
Ease up with the shame bs at least we know what trump is not like 90% of democrats who are well matched with the fake tv networks. Keep swallowing aocs bullshit u deserve each other
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 03:26:59 PM
This is brilliant. We can all compare results later. Unfortunately Eamonnca1 isn't listed as an option. Boo!!

(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/26n.muellermadnessbracket.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=3000)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2019, 03:38:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2019, 01:27:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 02:32:23 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2019, 09:52:26 PM
The bottom line for the Democrats and most television networks is to oust trump no matter how they do it , Rachel Maddow is crying on live tv that there was no collusion and some other clown is saying it's white privilege that got him and his family off the hook , they have been selling a lie for 2 years they should be ashamed of themselves

Were you ashamed of the GOP over the birther stuff, led by the now president and tacitly endorsed all the way to the Speaker at the time?

Were you ashamed by the likes of Jade Helm? Are you ashamed of the GOP's general embrace of ignorance, anti-intellectualism and bigotry?

Are you ashamed of Trump cosying up to men like Alex Jones? David Duke? The refusal to unequivocally condemn white nationalism and racism?

Are you ashamed of Trump palling around with murderous, dictatorial strongmen while basically telling longtime US allies to go f**k themselves?

Are you ashamed of Trump purposely and callously having crying babies torn from their mothers and tossed into the terror of the immigration detention system to try to intimidate other would be illegal immigrants?

Are you ashamed of Trump's stunningly cynical and appalling record on environmental issues?

Are you ashamed of his utter ignorance on a plethora of issues and his bald-faced lying on even more?

Are you ashamed of his unprecedentedly appalling personal conduct as president? As a human being?

I could go on, but you get the picture. Take your sanctimony elsewhere.
I was talking about the news networks who sold a fake story for 2 years even though they knew it was fake because they didn't want to accept the outcome of the election.
Ease up with the shame bs at least we know what trump is not like 90% of democrats who are well matched with the fake tv networks. Keep swallowing aocs bullshit u deserve each other

Nothing bs about I said. The GOP in general and Trump in particular are promoters extraordinaire of fake news and alternate facts and realities. It's one of the primary reasons I have little time for them, even if the Dems also suck on certain issues. And I've never advocated for AOC on here. If and when I do, feel free to use that against me. I'll happily debate it.

As for the media, legitimate questions were there to be asked about a demonstrably corrupt and unethical president. Just because Mueller (after all Trump's attempted tipping of the scale) didn't come up with anything concrete does not mean, after the fact, that the questions should not have been asked. I repeat again, HIS Justice Dept launched the investigation after Trump admitted on national tv that he fired Comey over Russia.

Were you so outraged when Fox and the right wing media went all in for five years on Benghazi and the ten congressional investigations into that? When Kevin McCarthy went on national tv and said they were investigating to try to hamstring Hilary's presidential run?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2019, 05:52:02 PM
The fake news can jump on the Jessie smullet case being dropped now how convinient
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2019, 05:52:02 PM
The fake news can jump on the Jessie smullet case being dropped now how convinient

They have evidence including testimony from the brothers and the video footage of them buying the hat/rope etc and showing them in the vicinity on the night of the "attack".

At a guess the Cook county state attorney Kim Foxx has something to do with getting this dropped as I believe she's friendly with Smollett and already tried to take the case away from the police

Will be interesting to hear why he's got off. He seemed guilty as hell.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 06:41:16 PM
Some amount of egg on the pasty faces of the white supremacists who to tried to lynch Smollett in the right-wing media!

Stand up Fox News and every other lying partisan right-wing media outlet, and the racist white supremacist Donald Trump!

It just goes to show that Republicans believe entirely in FAKE NEWS!

A complete and total exoneration for Smollett!

Now to track down and lock up the racist scum in the MAGA hats who perpetrated this hate crime on him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 07:15:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 06:41:16 PM
Some amount of egg on the pasty faces of the white supremacists who to tried to lynch Smollett in the right-wing media!

Stand up Fox News and every other lying partisan right-wing media outlet, and the racist white supremacist Donald Trump!

It just goes to show that Republicans believe entirely in FAKE NEWS!

A complete and total exoneration for Smollett!

Now to track down and lock up the racist scum in the MAGA hats who perpetrated this hate crime on him!

Eamonnca1 (or Sid if you want to keep using the alias)
Do you think that Eddie Johnson, the Chicago police chief, is a right wing racist white supremacist after what he said about Smollett?

(https://www.cityclub-chicago.org/content/images/speakers/id1273-6d29c72b-b7e4-49b5-a80e-058413e92a51.jpg/image-full;max$194,0.ImageHandler)

He believed that Smollett was guilty. Media outlets reported facts provided by law enforcement. Not made-up stories provided by some shady democrats and their supporters which led to a 2 year investigation.

We now need to know why this is not the case and what role the Cook County state attorney (good friend of Smollett) played in all this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
The forum's racist white supremacist in chief, Adolph, just keeps digging in!

What a complete humiliation for him!

Adolph's KKK hood will be soaked through tonight with all the froth coming out of his mouth!







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on March 26, 2019, 07:37:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 06:41:16 PM
Some amount of egg on the pasty faces of the white supremacists who to tried to lynch Smollett in the right-wing media!

Stand up Fox News and every other lying partisan right-wing media outlet, and the racist white supremacist Donald Trump!

It just goes to show that Republicans believe entirely in FAKE NEWS!

A complete and total exoneration for Smollett!

Now to track down and lock up the racist scum in the MAGA hats who perpetrated this hate crime on him!

Are you taking the piss, if you are not you are seriously mixed up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 26, 2019, 07:39:24 PM
Jeez some of you lads have an irrational hatred of trump...

Cant admit he didn't collude with Russia ( seriously come on did you ever think it was possible!!)

Also that he isn't doing a better economic job than Obama..  really ffs!!

Trump is a shady businessman, Obama a real politician and diplomat ( ie talks a great game but does fcuk all)

This thread is hilarious!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 26, 2019, 07:41:52 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 26, 2019, 07:37:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 06:41:16 PM
Some amount of egg on the pasty faces of the white supremacists who to tried to lynch Smollett in the right-wing media!

Stand up Fox News and every other lying partisan right-wing media outlet, and the racist white supremacist Donald Trump!

It just goes to show that Republicans believe entirely in FAKE NEWS!

A complete and total exoneration for Smollett!

Now to track down and lock up the racist scum in the MAGA hats who perpetrated this hate crime on him!

Are you taking the piss, if you are not you are seriously mixed up
Eamonn/sid  is just on here to take the pss

I hope they help him away from GAA kids in Sf as he would be dangerous around impressionable minds!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2019, 07:58:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 26, 2019, 07:41:52 PM
Eamonn/sid  is just on here to take the pss

I hope they help him away from GAA kids in Sf as he would be dangerous around impressionable minds!

Libel reported to moderators.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2019, 08:34:25 PM
Smollett will say he has mental problems or drug problems and is going to rehab and that will be the end of it unfortunately, on the plus side the one time darling of the left Michael avenatti was arrested for a couple of serious felonies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 08:53:37 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 26, 2019, 07:41:52 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 26, 2019, 07:37:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 06:41:16 PM
Some amount of egg on the pasty faces of the white supremacists who to tried to lynch Smollett in the right-wing media!

Stand up Fox News and every other lying partisan right-wing media outlet, and the racist white supremacist Donald Trump!

It just goes to show that Republicans believe entirely in FAKE NEWS!

A complete and total exoneration for Smollett!

Now to track down and lock up the racist scum in the MAGA hats who perpetrated this hate crime on him!

Are you taking the piss, if you are not you are seriously mixed up
Eamonn/sid  is just on here to take the pss

I hope they help him away from GAA kids in Sf as he would be dangerous around impressionable minds!
Lynchmob/Adolph is SEETHING!

The racists are SEETHING!

You can't spell Jussie Smollett without INNOCENT!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Saffrongael on March 26, 2019, 09:15:57 PM
NEW from Chicago: Joe Magats, the first assistant state's attorney who made the final decision to drop the charges against Jussie Smollett, says in an interview: "We didn't exonerate him"

Magats, the asst state's atty, said he saw no problems with the police investigation or the evidence against Smollett. The charges against Smollett were dropped in return for his agreement to do community service, he said, and for forfeiting his bond to the city of Chicago.

More from the asst state's attorney: "Here's the thing -- we work to prioritize violent crime and the drivers of violent crime. Public safety is our number one priority. I don't see Jussie Smollett as a threat to public safety."

"We stand behind the investigation, we stand behind the decision to charge him and we stand behind the charges in the case. The mere fact that it was disposed of in an alternative manner does not mean that there were any problems or infirmities in the case or the evidence."



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 09:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
The forum's racist white supremacist in chief, Adolph, just keeps digging in!

What a complete humiliation for him!

Adolph's KKK hood will be soaked through tonight with all the froth coming out of his mouth!

Libel reported to moderators. Also reported duplicate aliases of Eamonnca1 / Sid Waddell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 10:00:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2019, 07:58:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 26, 2019, 07:41:52 PM
Eamonn/sid  is just on here to take the pss

I hope they help him away from GAA kids in Sf as he would be dangerous around impressionable minds!

Libel reported to moderators.

Eamonnca1 / Sid talks some amount of shite alright. That's not actually libel. He probably tries to convince his cat that the Russian collusion was real and that Hillary really won the election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2019, 10:13:13 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 26, 2019, 07:39:24 PM
Jeez some of you lads have an irrational hatred of trump...

Cant admit he didn't collude with Russia ( seriously come on did you ever think it was possible!!)

Also that he isn't doing a better economic job than Obama..  really ffs!!

Trump is a shady businessman, Obama a real politician and diplomat ( ie talks a great game but does fcuk all)

This thread is hilarious!

How is he doing a better job on the economy than Obama?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 09:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
The forum's racist white supremacist in chief, Adolph, just keeps digging in!

What a complete humiliation for him!

Adolph's KKK hood will be soaked through tonight with all the froth coming out of his mouth!

Libel reported to moderators. Also reported duplicate aliases of Eamonnca1 / Sid Waddell.
No such a thing as libel in Ireland, mate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:22:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 09:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
The forum's racist white supremacist in chief, Adolph, just keeps digging in!

What a complete humiliation for him!

Adolph's KKK hood will be soaked through tonight with all the froth coming out of his mouth!

Libel reported to moderators. Also reported duplicate aliases of Eamonnca1 / Sid Waddell.
No such a thing as libel in Ireland, mate

If that troll is reporting you, then you should do likewise.

He's been banned previously from the board under his foxcommander ID.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 26, 2019, 11:25:11 PM
This thread sums up everything that's wrong with the modern world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:28:37 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 26, 2019, 09:15:57 PM
NEW from Chicago: Joe Magats, the first assistant state's attorney who made the final decision to drop the charges against Jussie Smollett, says in an interview: "We didn't exonerate him"

Magats, the asst state's atty, said he saw no problems with the police investigation or the evidence against Smollett. The charges against Smollett were dropped in return for his agreement to do community service, he said, and for forfeiting his bond to the city of Chicago.

More from the asst state's attorney: "Here's the thing -- we work to prioritize violent crime and the drivers of violent crime. Public safety is our number one priority. I don't see Jussie Smollett as a threat to public safety."

"We stand behind the investigation, we stand behind the decision to charge him and we stand behind the charges in the case. The mere fact that it was disposed of in an alternative manner does not mean that there were any problems or infirmities in the case or the evidence."

What would have happened if he hadn't been a well-off actor who could afford to let the ten grand bond go? Would they have let him off with community service then? Poor decision.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 26, 2019, 11:25:11 PM
This thread sums up everything that's wrong with the modern world.

If you mean trolls dominating the discourse with false, inflammatory bullshit, I agree.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Esmarelda on March 26, 2019, 11:31:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 26, 2019, 11:25:11 PM
This thread sums up everything that's wrong with the modern world.
Everything? Things are looking up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:22:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 09:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
The forum's racist white supremacist in chief, Adolph, just keeps digging in!

What a complete humiliation for him!

Adolph's KKK hood will be soaked through tonight with all the froth coming out of his mouth!

Libel reported to moderators. Also reported duplicate aliases of Eamonnca1 / Sid Waddell.
No such a thing as libel in Ireland, mate

If that troll is reporting you, then you should do likewise.

He's been banned previously from the board under his foxcommander ID.
He's obviously devoting his whole life purely to trolling this thread, because he's such a worthless, self-loathing turd who has nothing else to be doing.

The thread can't survive given his trolling and the total inaction of the mods to clean it up, so might as well troll back.

Although here's the thing - I'm not trolling at all - he's exactly what I've described, a vile, far right extremist fanatic, who would fit in perfectly on the Daily Stormer, who genuinely want another Holocaust.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2019, 12:41:04 AM
I don't know if he believes all the bilge he comes out with. There's no depth or substance. I think he's mostly just trolling to get attention. Ignore the cnut and he will eventually get bored and f**k away off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 27, 2019, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

The evidence is all there if you want to investigate it, which I'm sure you won't.

Every other president in American history, even the really bad ones, had at least one year when U.S. GDP grew by at least 3 percent.  But this did not happened under Obama even though he has had two terms in the White House.

Obama doubled the national debt from 10 to 20 trillion.

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2017/01/01/total%20debt%20under%20obama%202016_0.jpg)

But let's pretend that the economic recovery under Trump is all thanks to that spoofer Obama if it makes the snowflakes feel better.

You cut off your chart at 2016 and did not take into account that Obama had to spend money bailing out the auto industry and the banks. He actually should have spent more on infrastructure which would have put the economy into overdrive with annual GDP growth rates well in excess of the 2.5 % annual average achieved but Mitch McConnell wouldn't allow it. Now you are jumping for joy at the trickledown sugar high Trump gave the economy which will only worsen and speed the oncoming of the next recession. The National Debt was on the way down at the end of  Obama's term and is now about to go up substantially to pay for the sugar high. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States#/media/File%3AUS_National_Debt.png
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 12:58:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 26, 2019, 11:25:11 PM
This thread sums up everything that's wrong with the modern world.

If you mean trolls dominating the discourse with false, inflammatory bullshit, I agree.

You mean like trolling the discourse with false, imflammatory bullshit about how President Trump colluded with Russia.
You can't even say that you were wrong.

It's sad to say that you're just as bad as Eamonn/Sid.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 27, 2019, 07:28:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 12:58:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 26, 2019, 11:25:11 PM
This thread sums up everything that's wrong with the modern world.

If you mean trolls dominating the discourse with false, inflammatory bullshit, I agree.

You mean like trolling the discourse with false, imflammatory bullshit about how President Trump colluded with Russia.
You can't even say that you were wrong.

It's sad to say that you're just as bad as Eamonn/Sid.

But he wasn't exonerated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 27, 2019, 11:28:08 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 27, 2019, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

The evidence is all there if you want to investigate it, which I'm sure you won't.

Every other president in American history, even the really bad ones, had at least one year when U.S. GDP grew by at least 3 percent.  But this did not happened under Obama even though he has had two terms in the White House.

Obama doubled the national debt from 10 to 20 trillion.

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2017/01/01/total%20debt%20under%20obama%202016_0.jpg)

But let's pretend that the economic recovery under Trump is all thanks to that spoofer Obama if it makes the snowflakes feel better.

You cut off your chart at 2016 and did not take into account that Obama had to spend money bailing out the auto industry and the banks. He actually should have spent more on infrastructure which would have put the economy into overdrive with annual GDP growth rates well in excess of the 2.5 % annual average achieved but Mitch McConnell wouldn't allow it. Now you are jumping for joy at the trickledown sugar high Trump gave the economy which will only worsen and speed the oncoming of the next recession. The National Debt was on the way down at the end of  Obama's term and is now about to go up substantially to pay for the sugar high. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States#/media/File%3AUS_National_Debt.png

If the tax cuts were supposed to pay for themselves through growth then why are the US having to cut the shit out of their education budget and ditch the Special Olympics??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 11:44:12 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 27, 2019, 07:28:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 12:58:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 26, 2019, 11:25:11 PM
This thread sums up everything that's wrong with the modern world.

If you mean trolls dominating the discourse with false, inflammatory bullshit, I agree.

You mean like trolling the discourse with false, imflammatory bullshit about how President Trump colluded with Russia.
You can't even say that you were wrong.

It's sad to say that you're just as bad as Eamonn/Sid.

But he wasn't exonerated.

Point me to the evidence that he colluded. 2 years of investigation by a less than Trump friendly team brought up nothing.
The only thing they had left to give any sort of credence to the investigation was to say they could not exonerate but this is quite hollow in the scope of the victory by the president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 27, 2019, 11:57:09 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 11:44:12 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 27, 2019, 07:28:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 12:58:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 26, 2019, 11:25:11 PM
This thread sums up everything that's wrong with the modern world.

If you mean trolls dominating the discourse with false, inflammatory bullshit, I agree.

You mean like trolling the discourse with false, imflammatory bullshit about how President Trump colluded with Russia.
You can't even say that you were wrong.

It's sad to say that you're just as bad as Eamonn/Sid.

But he wasn't exonerated.

Point me to the evidence that he colluded. 2 years of investigation by a less than Trump friendly team brought up nothing.
The only thing they had left to give any sort of credence to the investigation was to say they could not exonerate but this is quite hollow in the scope of the victory by the president.

I didn't say he colluded. Quit moving the goalposts. He wasn't exonerated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 12:41:04 AM
I don't know if he believes all the bilge he comes out with. There's no depth or substance. I think he's mostly just trolling to get attention. Ignore the cnut and he will eventually get bored and f**k away off.

It's funny how the left believe that anyone that supports the president is a troll because in their minds they are righteous and have the backing of the morons at the mainstream media to do the bidding for them.

If anything the real trolls are the left leaning members of the board. All they have done in the last 2 years is smear the president and look for reactions from conservatives who rightly try to highlight their lies. I've noticed that when they are shown up they gang up like mini Brian Stelters repeating the democrat talking points they learned on CNN and MSNBC.

Take a step back lads, realize that what you've been trained to say by the media is all a big hoax and start using your own brain (Eamonn/Sid are exempt for lack of having one). You look like fools.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 27, 2019, 12:00:28 PM
Looking forward to seeing the full report when it's released!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 12:02:46 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 27, 2019, 11:57:09 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 11:44:12 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 27, 2019, 07:28:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 12:58:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 26, 2019, 11:25:11 PM
This thread sums up everything that's wrong with the modern world.

If you mean trolls dominating the discourse with false, inflammatory bullshit, I agree.

You mean like trolling the discourse with false, imflammatory bullshit about how President Trump colluded with Russia.
You can't even say that you were wrong.

It's sad to say that you're just as bad as Eamonn/Sid.

But he wasn't exonerated.

Point me to the evidence that he colluded. 2 years of investigation by a less than Trump friendly team brought up nothing.
The only thing they had left to give any sort of credence to the investigation was to say they could not exonerate but this is quite hollow in the scope of the victory by the president.

I didn't say he colluded. Quit moving the goalposts. He wasn't exonerated.

Exactly. So if he didn't collude why are some making a stink about exoneration?
We all know that is bullshit for the democrats to try save face.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 01:20:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2019, 08:34:25 PM
Smollett will say he has mental problems or drug problems and is going to rehab and that will be the end of it unfortunately, on the plus side the one time darling of the left Michael avenatti was arrested for a couple of serious felonies

You mean potential Democratic 2020 presidential candidate Michael Avenatti. Wasn't so long ago that the Mainstream media were touting him as their big hope of representing them in the election and beating Trump.

To be fair Avenatti is probably still more trustworthy than the democrats in congress.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on March 27, 2019, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2019, 11:28:08 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 27, 2019, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

The evidence is all there if you want to investigate it, which I'm sure you won't.

Every other president in American history, even the really bad ones, had at least one year when U.S. GDP grew by at least 3 percent.  But this did not happened under Obama even though he has had two terms in the White House.

Obama doubled the national debt from 10 to 20 trillion.

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2017/01/01/total%20debt%20under%20obama%202016_0.jpg)

But let's pretend that the economic recovery under Trump is all thanks to that spoofer Obama if it makes the snowflakes feel better.

You cut off your chart at 2016 and did not take into account that Obama had to spend money bailing out the auto industry and the banks. He actually should have spent more on infrastructure which would have put the economy into overdrive with annual GDP growth rates well in excess of the 2.5 % annual average achieved but Mitch McConnell wouldn't allow it. Now you are jumping for joy at the trickledown sugar high Trump gave the economy which will only worsen and speed the oncoming of the next recession. The National Debt was on the way down at the end of  Obama's term and is now about to go up substantially to pay for the sugar high. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States#/media/File%3AUS_National_Debt.png

If the tax cuts were supposed to pay for themselves through growth then why are the US having to cut the shit out of their
education budget and ditch the Special Olympics??!!

I think I have seen it all.
Please do yourself a favor and move onto another blog and stop talking pure shite.
You do not live here and are clueless.
Why do you think real estate taxes are so high in the suburbs.
Answer. School taxes.
Why. The level of incompetence and top heavy administrative cost, together with all the pensions that teachers get (irrespective of their performance) in the US has caused multiple states to have huge pension deficits.
Look it up.

As somebody said earlier, the Mueller report came up with nothing after two years, so let's keep throwing the proverbial shit at the wall.

while I am still ranting, the people, politicians and TV hacks who were confidentially predicting as nauseaum that Trump would be indicted.
Until they come out and publicly apologize for their nonsense, should not be let near a TV camera or a studio again.
It is sickening, and I would consider myself a moderate republican/conservative, who would potentially vote for Biden if he can somehow get by the new radical useless left, without having to promise stuff that will cripple the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 27, 2019, 02:04:12 PM
Quotethe Mueller report came up with nothing after two years

Well - that's just not true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on March 27, 2019, 02:07:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2019, 12:00:28 PM
Looking forward to seeing the full report when it's released!!

I don't think it can or will be released in full
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2019, 02:28:53 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 27, 2019, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2019, 11:28:08 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 27, 2019, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

The evidence is all there if you want to investigate it, which I'm sure you won't.

Every other president in American history, even the really bad ones, had at least one year when U.S. GDP grew by at least 3 percent.  But this did not happened under Obama even though he has had two terms in the White House.

Obama doubled the national debt from 10 to 20 trillion.

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2017/01/01/total%20debt%20under%20obama%202016_0.jpg)

But let's pretend that the economic recovery under Trump is all thanks to that spoofer Obama if it makes the snowflakes feel better.

You cut off your chart at 2016 and did not take into account that Obama had to spend money bailing out the auto industry and the banks. He actually should have spent more on infrastructure which would have put the economy into overdrive with annual GDP growth rates well in excess of the 2.5 % annual average achieved but Mitch McConnell wouldn't allow it. Now you are jumping for joy at the trickledown sugar high Trump gave the economy which will only worsen and speed the oncoming of the next recession. The National Debt was on the way down at the end of  Obama's term and is now about to go up substantially to pay for the sugar high. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States#/media/File%3AUS_National_Debt.png

If the tax cuts were supposed to pay for themselves through growth then why are the US having to cut the shit out of their
education budget and ditch the Special Olympics??!!

I think I have seen it all.
Please do yourself a favor and move onto another blog and stop talking pure shite.
You do not live here and are clueless.
Why do you think real estate taxes are so high in the suburbs.
Answer. School taxes.
Why. The level of incompetence and top heavy administrative cost, together with all the pensions that teachers get (irrespective of their performance) in the US has caused multiple states to have huge pension deficits.
Look it up.

As somebody said earlier, the Mueller report came up with nothing after two years, so let's keep throwing the proverbial shit at the wall.

while I am still ranting, the people, politicians and TV hacks who were confidentially predicting as nauseaum that Trump would be indicted.
Until they come out and publicly apologize for their nonsense, should not be let near a TV camera or a studio again.
It is sickening, and I would consider myself a moderate republican/conservative, who would potentially vote for Biden if he can somehow get by the new radical useless left, without having to promise stuff that will cripple the country.

If that's your standard, you're going to have to shut down the entire 24-hour cable news industry (not that that would be a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination!). People talking shite and engaging in wild speculation and sensationalism, just to get ratings, is the modus operandi. And in the case of Fox News, driving the presidential agenda, with so many of them ending up in his administration and fueling his tweets and "policy" musings. Or even getting up on stage with him at campaign events and going to bat for him every night in front of a couple of million viewers. I'll take your Mueller case and raise you Benghazi, birthers, Jade Helm and the Ground Zero mosque, off the top of my head. And of course the president endorsing the likes of Alex Jones.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2019, 02:32:53 PM
DeVos is vile
Cutting Special Olympics money to pay for a plutocrat tax cut
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 27, 2019, 02:43:12 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 27, 2019, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2019, 11:28:08 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 27, 2019, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 26, 2019, 04:45:53 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 25, 2019, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
[Debt is 60% more than in 2008 and the driver is the ratio of debt to GDP.

2008 - When Obama took over and made a balls of it. Place the blame where it should be.

Can you please lay out your case for placing the blame on Obama?

The evidence is all there if you want to investigate it, which I'm sure you won't.

Every other president in American history, even the really bad ones, had at least one year when U.S. GDP grew by at least 3 percent.  But this did not happened under Obama even though he has had two terms in the White House.

Obama doubled the national debt from 10 to 20 trillion.

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2017/01/01/total%20debt%20under%20obama%202016_0.jpg)

But let's pretend that the economic recovery under Trump is all thanks to that spoofer Obama if it makes the snowflakes feel better.

You cut off your chart at 2016 and did not take into account that Obama had to spend money bailing out the auto industry and the banks. He actually should have spent more on infrastructure which would have put the economy into overdrive with annual GDP growth rates well in excess of the 2.5 % annual average achieved but Mitch McConnell wouldn't allow it. Now you are jumping for joy at the trickledown sugar high Trump gave the economy which will only worsen and speed the oncoming of the next recession. The National Debt was on the way down at the end of  Obama's term and is now about to go up substantially to pay for the sugar high. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States#/media/File%3AUS_National_Debt.png

If the tax cuts were supposed to pay for themselves through growth then why are the US having to cut the shit out of their
education budget and ditch the Special Olympics??!!

I think I have seen it all.
Please do yourself a favor and move onto another blog and stop talking pure shite.
You do not live here and are clueless.
Why do you think real estate taxes are so high in the suburbs.
Answer. School taxes.
Why. The level of incompetence and top heavy administrative cost, together with all the pensions that teachers get (irrespective of their performance) in the US has caused multiple states to have huge pension deficits.
Look it up.

As somebody said earlier, the Mueller report came up with nothing after two years, so let's keep throwing the proverbial shit at the wall.

while I am still ranting, the people, politicians and TV hacks who were confidentially predicting as nauseaum that Trump would be indicted.
Until they come out and publicly apologize for their nonsense, should not be let near a TV camera or a studio again.
It is sickening, and I would consider myself a moderate republican/conservative, who would potentially vote for Biden if he can somehow get by the new radical useless left, without having to promise stuff that will cripple the country.

Well then why are they slashing the budgets for disability programs and not reforming School administration as a way of saving the €7bn??!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:26:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 09:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
The forum's racist white supremacist in chief, Adolph, just keeps digging in!

What a complete humiliation for him!

Adolph's KKK hood will be soaked through tonight with all the froth coming out of his mouth!

Libel reported to moderators. Also reported duplicate aliases of Eamonnca1 / Sid Waddell.
No such a thing as libel in Ireland, mate
Yes there is..

Its classes as defamation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 11:22:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 26, 2019, 09:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 26, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
The forum's racist white supremacist in chief, Adolph, just keeps digging in!

What a complete humiliation for him!

Adolph's KKK hood will be soaked through tonight with all the froth coming out of his mouth!

Libel reported to moderators. Also reported duplicate aliases of Eamonnca1 / Sid Waddell.
No such a thing as libel in Ireland, mate

If that troll is reporting you, then you should do likewise.

He's been banned previously from the board under his foxcommander ID.

Lol
Tout!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:30:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 10:13:13 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 26, 2019, 07:39:24 PM
Jeez some of you lads have an irrational hatred of trump...

Cant admit he didn't collude with Russia ( seriously come on did you ever think it was possible!!)

Also that he isn't doing a better economic job than Obama..  really ffs!!

Trump is a shady businessman, Obama a real politician and diplomat ( ie talks a great game but does fcuk all)

This thread is hilarious!

How is he doing a better job on the economy than Obama?
Obama had it on its knees.

Manufacturing and employment now on the up

Are you not living there

Theres a vast difference in neighbourhoods now from the psumeudo ghettos they were becoming 6 years ago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2019, 07:58:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 26, 2019, 07:41:52 PM
Eamonn/sid  is just on here to take the pss

I hope they help him away from GAA kids in Sf as he would be dangerous around impressionable minds!

Libel reported to moderators.
You obv dont know libel or defamation laws

If you were posting under your real name from either your sid or eamonnmoronica accounts then you might have a million to one chance on a global internet chat forum.

But given your posts on here its obv the ruling would find against you plus costs!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2019, 03:45:12 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:30:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2019, 10:13:13 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 26, 2019, 07:39:24 PM
Jeez some of you lads have an irrational hatred of trump...

Cant admit he didn't collude with Russia ( seriously come on did you ever think it was possible!!)

Also that he isn't doing a better economic job than Obama..  really ffs!!

Trump is a shady businessman, Obama a real politician and diplomat ( ie talks a great game but does fcuk all)

This thread is hilarious!

How is he doing a better job on the economy than Obama?
Obama had it on its knees.

Manufacturing and employment now on the up

Are you not living there

Theres a vast difference in neighbourhoods now from the psumeudo ghettos they were becoming 6 years ago

Yes, I live here. What is a psumeudo ghetto and where would I find one?

A few graphs. Feel free to point out the inflection points.

US unemployment rate (this graph used to be available on the BLS website, but they appear to have removed it recently)
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate)
(https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-states-unemployment-rate.png?s=usurtot&v=201903081333a1&d1=20090101&d2=20191231)

Stock market
(https://www.macrotrends.net/assets/images/large/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years.png)
https://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years (https://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years)

A favourite of our former colleague stew and Trump himself... black unemployment

(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LNS14000006_2009_2019_all_period_M02_data.gif)
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/lns14000006 (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/lns14000006)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:48:29 PM
Economy is booming g despite your skewed stats.

Boston and especially Philadelphia plus Orlando have much improved visibly in past few years

..are you away to tout on me now??

:)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2019, 08:34:25 PM
Smollett will say he has mental problems or drug problems and is going to rehab and that will be the end of it unfortunately, on the plus side the one time darling of the left Michael avenatti was arrested for a couple of serious felonies

I didn't think I'd ever say this but I agree totally with Rahm Emanuel.

https://pagesix.com/2019/03/27/rahm-emanuel-continues-criticism-calls-smollett-decision-an-abomination/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:48:29 PM
Economy is booming g despite your skewed stats.

Boston and especially Philadelphia plus Orlando have much improved visibly in past few years

..are you away to tout on me now??

:)

Skewed stats? That's it?! ;D

You really are embracing the reactionary, alternative facts reality of the right, aren't you?!  ;)

And I didn't tout on anyone. I simply advised the other lad to fight fire with fire (dolph reported HIM first, in case you weren't paying attention).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 04:08:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:48:29 PM
Economy is booming g despite your skewed stats.

Boston and especially Philadelphia plus Orlando have much improved visibly in past few years

..are you away to tout on me now??

:)

Skewed stats? That's it?! ;D

You really are embracing the reactionary, alternative facts reality of the right, aren't you?!  ;)

And I didn't tout on anyone. I simply advised the other lad to fight fire with fire (dolph reported HIM first, in case you weren't paying attention).

Report me for what exactly? Please point out what I've said that is wrong or offensive.

You get the hump because Obama is being shown up for the fraud that he is.


The charges of supporting a holocaust are disgraceful. Eamonn/Sid need to be banned for that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2019, 04:29:47 PM
Why was Foxy banned ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 27, 2019, 05:29:34 PM
When it comes to charts, this is the one that more or less explains Trump and the ability of the cynical right to mobilise the desperate and the stupid as personified by the likes of Dolph.

(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/uu206/Hardyarse/0/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac-original.png?width=1280&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/Hardyarse/p/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 27, 2019, 05:29:34 PM
When it comes to charts, this is the one that more or less explains Trump and the ability of the cynical right to mobilise the desperate and the stupid as personified by the likes of Dolph.

(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/uu206/Hardyarse/0/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac-original.png?width=1280&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/Hardyarse/p/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac)

Wow Hardy - did you draw this one on your etch-a-sketch?

Big hint for you - The jug-eared one was in the white house in 2011.

I have to say your photobucket account name is very apt!!

https:/ /beta-static.photobucket.com/images/uu206/Hardyarse


Priceless!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2019, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 27, 2019, 05:29:34 PM
When it comes to charts, this is the one that more or less explains Trump and the ability of the cynical right to mobilise the desperate and the stupid as personified by the likes of Dolph.

(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/uu206/Hardyarse/0/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac-original.png?width=1280&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/Hardyarse/p/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac)

Complicated question. Is it a purely American phenomenon? How much of that is down to mechanization and technological advances? Off-shoring of manufacturing? In the US, the Federal Reserve's prioritization of inflation concerns? The right's insistence that unions, minimum wages, worker/consumer safety, taxes on the wealthy and the like are the epitome of evil, while at the same time doubling down on guns and gays and immigrants and muslims as the real problems facing "real" Americans?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 27, 2019, 07:10:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 27, 2019, 05:29:34 PM
When it comes to charts, this is the one that more or less explains Trump and the ability of the cynical right to mobilise the desperate and the stupid as personified by the likes of Dolph.

(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/uu206/Hardyarse/0/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac-original.png?width=1280&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/Hardyarse/p/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac)

Complicated question. Is it a purely American phenomenon? How much of that is down to mechanization and technological advances? Off-shoring of manufacturing? In the US, the Federal Reserve's prioritization of inflation concerns? The right's insistence that unions, minimum wages, worker/consumer safety, taxes on the wealthy and the like are the epitome of evil, while at the same time doubling down on guns and gays and immigrants and muslims as the real problems facing "real" Americans?

Seafoid would have a better insight but my take on your questions:

Is it US only?
I haven't seen charts for other economies but anecdotally the same phenomenon pervades the developed Western economies and has been referred to as a driver of the disaffection that brought Brexit and the rise of the hard right in Europe.

What is it down to:
All that you mentioned but, for me, the key point is that economic policy allowed all the improvements in productivity brought by automation and globalisation to be transferred to capital, not to reinvestment in employment producing activity  and certainly not to improving conditions for working people, never mind the underprivileged, whose welfare programmes have actually been cut.

As I said here before, spectacular gains in productivity since the 80s have ALL gone to capital, working people are worse off than they were then and that is the fertile soil in which xenophobia, racism and fascism grow. That is the breeding ground for Brexit and Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:48:29 PM
Economy is booming g despite your skewed stats.

Boston and especially Philadelphia plus Orlando have much improved visibly in past few years

..are you away to tout on me now??

:)

Skewed stats? That's it?! ;D

You really are embracing the reactionary, alternative facts reality of the right, aren't you?!  ;)

And I didn't tout on anyone. I simply advised the other lad to fight fire with fire (dolph reported HIM first, in case you weren't paying attention).
Twas fcuk all to do with you...

Let those two ( it's only two.. eamon/sid and dolph)  fight it out... you are akin to the little schoolgirl going squealing to the teacher... or a tout to the ruc/PSNI

As for the economy being better... sure you wint admit tango trump didn't collude with Russia..  you're hardly the poster boy for straight talking and objectivity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2019, 07:48:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 27, 2019, 05:29:34 PM
When it comes to charts, this is the one that more or less explains Trump and the ability of the cynical right to mobilise the desperate and the stupid as personified by the likes of Dolph.

(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/uu206/Hardyarse/0/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac-original.png?width=1280&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/Hardyarse/p/567baba4-dba1-4b9b-9833-2d0cb67bcfac)

Complicated question. Is it a purely American phenomenon? How much of that is down to mechanization and technological advances? Off-shoring of manufacturing? In the US, the Federal Reserve's prioritization of inflation concerns? The right's insistence that unions, minimum wages, worker/consumer safety, taxes on the wealthy and the like are the epitome of evil, while at the same time doubling down on guns and gays and immigrants and muslims as the real problems facing "real" Americans?
It's neoliberalism basically

Same in the UK and in France. Everywhere has the same system.
The system is very poor at generating growth. Money is taken from
the bottom 90% in various forms of rent seeking (healthcare, housing, big profit margins) and it goes to the top.

In the last few years in the UK period poverty has become an issue . It is an economic system problem

https://www.freeperiods.org/mission

The US is even more extreme.

Phil Cofer plays for the Florida State basketball team now in Sweet Sixteen of the immensely profitable NCAA tournament. His family can't afford the medical bills and funeral expenses for his Dad, who died a few days ago

An excess of 7 million Americans were at least three months behind on their car payments at the end of 2018.

Macron is going to cut 120,000 civil service jobs in France.

The United Nations has condemned Ireland for allowing multinational vulture funds to buy up vast swathes of properties and then rent them out at sky-high costs

Food bank in the UK use up from 40,000 packages in 2010 to 1,300,000 last year, homelessness up 165% and 500,000 more children in poverty.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2019, 07:59:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:48:29 PM
Economy is booming g despite your skewed stats.

Boston and especially Philadelphia plus Orlando have much improved visibly in past few years

..are you away to tout on me now??

:)

Skewed stats? That's it?! ;D

You really are embracing the reactionary, alternative facts reality of the right, aren't you?!  ;)

And I didn't tout on anyone. I simply advised the other lad to fight fire with fire (dolph reported HIM first, in case you weren't paying attention).
Twas fcuk all to do with you...

Let those two ( it's only two.. eamon/sid and dolph)  fight it out... you are akin to the little schoolgirl going squealing to the teacher... or a tout to the ruc/PSNI

As for the economy being better... sure you wint admit tango trump didn't collude with Russia..  you're hardly the poster boy for straight talking and objectivity

I've said little to nothing, either way, about Trump and Russia over the past two or so years. I don't really care. I'm much more concerned about his appalling policy agenda and shocking personal conduct as president.

And I've never claimed to be the poster boy for anything. I seriously doubt there are many who go looking out for my contributions. But I'm not a troll. I don't post inflammatory shit just to get a reaction. I don't do hit and run posting, shamelessly moving on and not acknowledging when someone presents something legitimately contradictory. I try not to offer opinions on anything I know little about and I do try to support my points.

Like most people here, in other words.

But it only takes one or two arseholes to derail a thread.

As for squealing, we are not in school. I don't really give a bollocks about playground ethics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dolph1 on March 27, 2019, 08:16:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 07:59:40 PM
As for squealing, we are not in school. I don't really give a bollocks about playground ethics.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wd-vZKhz3RE/hqdefault.jpg)


Fixed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2019, 08:50:43 PM
(https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-q5ipr57930/products/370/images/726/2016_Do_Not_Feed_The_Troll__16196.1524835065.1000.1000.jpg?c=2)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 28, 2019, 01:50:22 AM
So the Pentagon is now part of Mexico?

The pentagon will transfer $1 billion to fund 57 miles of fencing at $17,543,859.65 per mile or $3,322.72 per linear foot!!

$17.6 million cut from Special Olympics or 1 mile of border fencing.
tRump has cut funding for education for the third year in a row.

MAGA   :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 28, 2019, 08:31:43 PM
Barr and the GOP are hiding stuff . I thing wingnut celebrations are premature


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/18/trump-new-york-mueller-investigation-1173346
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2019, 10:17:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 07:59:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:48:29 PM
Economy is booming g despite your skewed stats.

Boston and especially Philadelphia plus Orlando have much improved visibly in past few years

..are you away to tout on me now??

:)

Skewed stats? That's it?! ;D

You really are embracing the reactionary, alternative facts reality of the right, aren't you?!  ;)

And I didn't tout on anyone. I simply advised the other lad to fight fire with fire (dolph reported HIM first, in case you weren't paying attention).
Twas fcuk all to do with you...

Let those two ( it's only two.. eamon/sid and dolph)  fight it out... you are akin to the little schoolgirl going squealing to the teacher... or a tout to the ruc/PSNI

As for the economy being better... sure you wint admit tango trump didn't collude with Russia..  you're hardly the poster boy for straight talking and objectivity

I've said little to nothing, either way, about Trump and Russia over the past two or so years. I don't really care. I'm much more concerned about his appalling policy agenda and shocking personal conduct as president.

And I've never claimed to be the poster boy for anything. I seriously doubt there are many who go looking out for my contributions. But I'm not a troll. I don't post inflammatory shit just to get a reaction. I don't do hit and run posting, shamelessly moving on and not acknowledging when someone presents something legitimately contradictory. I try not to offer opinions on anything I know little about and I do try to support my points.

Like most people here, in other words.

But it only takes one or two arseholes to derail a thread.

As for squealing, we are not in school. I don't really give a bollocks about playground ethics.
...yet you enact it

As bad a troll as the rest...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 29, 2019, 09:48:10 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2019, 10:17:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 07:59:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 27, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 27, 2019, 03:48:29 PM
Economy is booming g despite your skewed stats.

Boston and especially Philadelphia plus Orlando have much improved visibly in past few years

..are you away to tout on me now??

:)

Skewed stats? That's it?! ;D

You really are embracing the reactionary, alternative facts reality of the right, aren't you?!  ;)

And I didn't tout on anyone. I simply advised the other lad to fight fire with fire (dolph reported HIM first, in case you weren't paying attention).
Twas fcuk all to do with you...

Let those two ( it's only two.. eamon/sid and dolph)  fight it out... you are akin to the little schoolgirl going squealing to the teacher... or a tout to the ruc/PSNI

As for the economy being better... sure you wint admit tango trump didn't collude with Russia..  you're hardly the poster boy for straight talking and objectivity

I've said little to nothing, either way, about Trump and Russia over the past two or so years. I don't really care. I'm much more concerned about his appalling policy agenda and shocking personal conduct as president.

And I've never claimed to be the poster boy for anything. I seriously doubt there are many who go looking out for my contributions. But I'm not a troll. I don't post inflammatory shit just to get a reaction. I don't do hit and run posting, shamelessly moving on and not acknowledging when someone presents something legitimately contradictory. I try not to offer opinions on anything I know little about and I do try to support my points.

Like most people here, in other words.

But it only takes one or two arseholes to derail a thread.

As for squealing, we are not in school. I don't really give a bollocks about playground ethics.
...yet you enact it

As bad a troll as the rest...

Enact what?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 31, 2019, 06:09:34 PM
It's alright, lads. Fox News has just given us the best news yet. Trump is "cutting US aid to three Mexican countries."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TabClear on April 02, 2019, 11:23:55 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/02/donald-trump-golf-28-club-championships

https://www.golf.com/golf-plus/behind-kim-jong-ils-famous-round-golf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2019, 06:12:28 PM
Apparently Trump was mouthing off last night about wind turbines and the noise they produce causing cancer. Who knew? ;D

Wonder what his thoughts are on emissions from fossil fuels, which actually do contain carcinogenic constituents?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on April 05, 2019, 11:41:22 PM
The President of America can't say the word origins, doesn't know where his father was born and thinks babies are being cremated at birth. Must be chem trails or flouride in water.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2019, 12:31:47 AM
Apparently he spoke to the "President of the US Virgin Islands." That would be himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 06, 2019, 02:19:31 AM
You can't argue with the jobs numbers though...

2012 +181K
2013 +192K
2014 +251K
2015 +227K
2016 +193K
2017 +179K
2018 +223K
2019 +180K

🤔🤔
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 06, 2019, 03:36:44 AM
The problem for dems is throwing all their eggs in the mueller report basket has increased trumps chances of retaining the presidency by 25% they have pretty much fucked themselves , the above comments may be dumb but they may as well be in the bygones thread
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 06, 2019, 08:22:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 06, 2019, 02:19:31 AM
You can't argue with the jobs numbers though...

2012 +181K
2013 +192K
2014 +251K
2015 +227K
2016 +193K
2017 +179K
2018 +223K
2019 +180K

🤔🤔
You can. Payrises are atrocious
A lot of new jobs are minimum wage . Millions of people work in the gig economy and earn SFA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on April 06, 2019, 10:20:06 AM
The President of America can't say origin. He thinks noise causes cancer. The actual President of America.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 06, 2019, 05:38:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 06, 2019, 02:19:31 AM
You can't argue with the jobs numbers though...

2012 +181K
2013 +192K
2014 +251K
2015 +227K
2016 +193K
2017 +179K
2018 +223K
2019 +180K

🤔🤔

That would have Obama with an average of 209k and Trump with 194k..
Neither doing much to narrow the income gap.. in fairness to Obama, Mitch the turtle wouldn't let him do anything that would narrow the gap.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 06, 2019, 09:39:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on April 06, 2019, 05:38:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 06, 2019, 02:19:31 AM
You can't argue with the jobs numbers though...

2012 +181K
2013 +192K
2014 +251K
2015 +227K
2016 +193K
2017 +179K
2018 +223K
2019 +180K

🤔🤔

That would have Obama with an average of 209k and Trump with 194k..
Neither doing much to narrow the income gap.. in fairness to Obama, Mitch the turtle wouldn't let him do anything that would narrow the gap.

Those job growth rates are pretty much identical, the trends (unemployment, stock market etc) are a continuation of the Obama years, yet we never stop hearing how the economy is so much more robust and healthy since Trump took over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 06, 2019, 09:45:12 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on April 06, 2019, 10:20:06 AM
The President of America can't say origin. He thinks noise causes cancer. The actual President of America.

I think he might have a degenerative disease die to excessive pussy grabbing

Trump on Mueller

https://mobile.twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1114195358060564480

He sounds awful
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2019, 11:24:18 PM
The Mueller report isn't dead yet. We only have Barr's word on it so far. Let's see the whole thing...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 07, 2019, 01:10:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 06, 2019, 09:45:12 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on April 06, 2019, 10:20:06 AM
The President of America can't say origin. He thinks noise causes cancer. The actual President of America.

I think he might have a degenerative disease die to excessive pussy grabbing

Trump on Mueller

https://mobile.twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1114195358060564480

He sounds awful
I don't think his degeneracy is medically based.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on April 10, 2019, 12:21:23 AM
Pete Buttigieg is very impressive 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2019, 12:38:26 AM
The resident Trumpkin trolls have gone quiet. Have we been liberated?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 11, 2019, 07:27:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2019, 12:38:26 AM
The resident Trumpkin trolls have gone quiet. Have we been liberated?
just waiting on some indictments to fall on last administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2019, 05:48:31 PM
Just to close the loop on how the new tax law impacted me

2017

MA Refund 1782
NY Refund 702
Fed Owed 4312

2018

MA Refund 746
NY Refund 433
Fed-no Refund and I didn't owe anything

Federal Tax rate went from 24% in 2017 to 20.5 in 2018

Did not pay AMT in 2018

All in all.....very happy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 13, 2019, 10:34:42 PM
Pretty much the opposite of my experience.  Taxes way up for me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 14, 2019, 12:13:59 AM
Drat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on April 14, 2019, 01:23:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2019, 05:48:31 PM
Just to close the loop on how the new tax law impacted me

2017

MA Refund 1782
NY Refund 702
Fed Owed 4312

2018

MA Refund 746
NY Refund 433
Fed-no Refund and I didn't owe anything

Federal Tax rate went from 24% in 2017 to 20.5 in 2018

Did not pay AMT in 2018

All in all.....very happy

""whitey"" Is in the ""high earner bracket"" it would seem ;)  Would the last name be  ""Bulger""
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2019, 12:50:04 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 13, 2019, 10:34:42 PM
Pretty much the opposite of my experience.  Taxes way up for me.

Me too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 14, 2019, 07:46:23 PM
I guess Dumpty and the Turtle know who doesn't vote for them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2019, 12:26:43 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57366622_2736375116389486_8899918298901118976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=376965ac67e6f4d931fe002e70fc63d3&oe=5D317ADD)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2019, 07:48:14 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/so-many-conflicts-so-little-time-1396435
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on April 17, 2019, 04:31:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2019, 12:50:04 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 13, 2019, 10:34:42 PM
Pretty much the opposite of my experience.  Taxes way up for me.

Me too.

My personal tax refund went up about 25%, and I probably average an extra $150 a month net pay.

I am sure it is at some cost to the collective somewhere - but I have to admit that from a purely selfish back pocket perspective the last tax reform put more money in my household.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on April 17, 2019, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on April 17, 2019, 04:31:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2019, 12:50:04 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 13, 2019, 10:34:42 PM
Pretty much the opposite of my experience.  Taxes way up for me.

Me too.

My personal tax refund went up about 25%, and I probably average an extra $150 a month net pay.

I am sure it is at some cost to the collective somewhere - but I have to admit that from a purely selfish back pocket perspective the last tax reform put more money in my household.

I got a really bad hammering this year. Most folks here are in the same boat but its not surprising given the way the changes are set up to hit people in cities around CA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2019, 09:44:59 PM
My wife and I filed jointly for the first time this year. Our joint refund wasn't much bigger than each of the individual refunds we got last year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on April 18, 2019, 04:44:50 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 17, 2019, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on April 17, 2019, 04:31:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2019, 12:50:04 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 13, 2019, 10:34:42 PM
Pretty much the opposite of my experience.  Taxes way up for me.

Me too.

My personal tax refund went up about 25%, and I probably average an extra $150 a month net pay.

I am sure it is at some cost to the collective somewhere - but I have to admit that from a purely selfish back pocket perspective the last tax reform put more money in my household.

I got a really bad hammering this year. Most folks here are in the same boat but its not surprising given the way the changes are set up to hit people in cities around CA.

Yes, we are lucky living in Nevada with our lack of state (and many other) taxes.

They do tax the shit out of our weed though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 18, 2019, 04:27:09 PM
"While the investigation highlighted numerous links between individuals with ties to the Russian Government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign... the evidence was not sufficient to warrant criminal charges."

It's a good job nobody can agree on a definition of 'collusion' because the above statement sounds pretty close!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2019, 05:39:40 PM
"In May 2017, then Attorney General Jeff Sessions told Trump that Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein had just appointed Mueller as special counsel. Trump slumped back in his chair, according to notes from Jody Hunt, Sessions's chief of staff. "Oh my God, this is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I'm fucked," Trump said. Trump further laid into Sessions for his recusal, saying Sessions had let him down.

"Everyone tells me if you get one of these independent counsels it ruins your presidency," Trump said, according to Hunt's notes. "It takes years and years and I won't be able to do anything. This is the worst thing that ever happened to me."

The next morning, Trump tweeted, "This is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 18, 2019, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2019, 04:27:09 PM
"While the investigation highlighted numerous links between individuals with ties to the Russian Government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign... the evidence was not sufficient to warrant criminal charges."

It's a good job nobody can agree on a definition of 'collusion' because the above statement sounds pretty close!!!
yourself and Eamonn keep grasping watching too much Rachel Maddow lads
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2019, 09:52:43 AM
"How could you let this happen, Jeff."

Replaces

"Unbelievable,Jeff"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on April 19, 2019, 01:53:17 PM
The Democrats should play the ball rather than the man.   They don't have enough experience .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 19, 2019, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 19, 2019, 01:53:17 PM
The Democrats should play the ball rather than the man.   They don't have enough experience .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

You may be right. The expedient approach would be to move on, if only because so many people so focused on defensive voting that they'll accept their own guy/gal over the perceived apocalyptic possibilities of the other side no matter how dirty their own side appears to be.

You do have to wonder though what would be happening if the roles were reversed. What if Trump was a Democrat? (I'm talking purely about his personal corruption, lack of morality and utter contemptibility as a human being. His repugnant, callous, ignorant policies are a separate issue).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2019, 03:19:51 PM
If Trump were a Democrat he'd have gotten nowhere near the presidency because Dem voters would have laughed him out of the early caucuses. Only in the hateful GOP could such a clown have got the nomination.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on April 20, 2019, 07:22:26 PM
Trump wouldn't have won the presidency  If the the Clintons hadn't hijacked The Democratic Party  ""Between the super delegates and getting the questions before the debates"" This  just meant a lot of Sanders supporters stayed at home ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on June 06, 2019, 09:53:21 AM
I hadn't come across this before
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxxQOGGl2Jc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxxQOGGl2Jc)
- from two years ago, an eloquent condemnation of Trumpism and an excoriation  of the collaboration of Irish Americans with the far right excesses of the Trump regime by Aodhán O'Riordan. I didn't know he had it in him. It deserves a wider audience, particularly to contrast with the paddywhackery in Clare last night when locals behaved like peasants who will dance for beer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2019, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on April 20, 2019, 07:22:26 PM
Trump wouldn't have won the presidency  If the the Clintons hadn't hijacked The Democratic Party  ""Between the super delegates and getting the questions before the debates"" This  just meant a lot of Sanders supporters stayed at home ;)

Bernie supporters stayed home because Clinton was told beforehand that the literal raging topic of that very week in Flint (location of  the debate) and a major national news story (i.e. the scandal about the elevated lead in Flint's water supply caused by local and state politicians) might come up in the debate?

(On a similar level of underhanded cheating, I believe someone let it slip to Declan Bonner that he might be asked about Mickey Harte and Tyrone when he talks to the press this week.)

And of course they ignore the fact that the right wing machine had not even begun its assault on the Bernie the "communist".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 06, 2019, 12:28:21 PM
It looks like Trump has dementia.
Presidential historian Jon Meacham said the president's tweets had become impossible to ignore, and his apparently declining mental health "posed a real danger to the nation."

His interview with Piers Morgan showed that his brain can't construct an argument

https://mobile.twitter.com/DMR09/status/1136379716708028416
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/ireland-visit-donald-trump-arrives-leo-varadkar-discussions

Sean cox's wife Martina says that Sean struggles with words and especially with his short term memory
but that he can remember things from the past and has no problem cursing.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 06, 2019, 04:39:04 PM
Doonbeg golf course was a victim of the crash
Trump bought it for EUR 15m after the crash


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/doonbeg-golf-club-sells-units-for-41m-1.1020241

Doonbeg Golf Club sells units for €41m
Wed, Oct 25, 2006, 01:00
Gordon Deegan


One of the State's most exclusive golf clubs at Doonbeg, Co Clare, has confirmed that it has secured €41 million through the sales of luxury suites at its €150 million golf resort on the west Clare coast.

Accounts for the venture returned to the Companies Office show that in 2005, Doonbeg Golf Club recorded a loss of €1.2 million. A spokesman yesterday attributed the loss "to the development and preparation costs associated with the opening of the five-star lodging, golf and hospitality facilities".

The accounts also show that the US investors behind the project have injected €48 million into the resort, which employed 270 people over the summer months this year.

A spokesman said yesterday: "Doonbeg Golf Club and its US developers, Kiawah Development Partners [ KDP], are delighted with the progress of the club."

He added that sales contracts for 32 units at the Lodge had been entered into last year, worth €27.6 million. The remaining 15 suites, worth €13.4 million, were sold during the early part of 2006. Almost all of these sales are expected to close by next month.

The opening of the Lodge has also led to a substantial increase in golf rounds.

Last year, golf rounds remained at about the same levels as 2004, but with the opening of the Lodge, the spokesman said: "golf rounds have dramatically increased by 40 per cent for the current year to over 20,000 rounds".

With green fees for the Greg Norman-designed course at €185 during week days and €195 at weekends, the club accumulated an estimated €3.7 million in green fees last year.

The spokesman said club membership sales continued to be strong, with 2005 being 39 per cent ahead of the sales levels achieved in 2004.

That trend has continued in 2006 with membership sales levels being another 44 per cent ahead of the 2005 levels, he said. There are now 430 members, approximately 40 per cent of them Irish.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2019, 04:56:59 PM
Apparently the club applied for planning permission to build a sea wall to offset the threat of climate for change.

Hopefully for them it will not be needed as, according to the owner, climate change is just fake news made up by the Chinese.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 06, 2019, 05:12:31 PM
The amount of cap-doffing and forelock-tugging in Doonbeg was cringeworthy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 06, 2019, 07:12:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 06, 2019, 05:12:31 PM
The amount of cap-doffing and forelock-tugging in Doonbeg was cringeworthy.
don't believe what the locals think believe the guy 5000 miles away
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on June 06, 2019, 08:40:16 PM
Trump's visit to Ireland for talks with Prime Minister Leo Varadkar was limited to the Shannon airport. But that still left enough time for raised eyebrows.

With Varadkar's face frozen in astonishment, Trump initially appeared to indicate that Ireland wanted a wall on its border with Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, as he wants with Mexico.

Ireland, which is deeply concerned by the effects of Brexit and the risk of a hard border, has insisted on the need for freedom of movement between the sides.

"I think it will all work out very well, and also for you with your wall, your border," he said. Varadkar responded: "I think one thing we want to avoid, of course, is a wall or border between us."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 07, 2019, 12:54:35 AM
Whatever you can say about him, he is consistent in his utter ignorance and lack of interest in the details of policies and issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2019, 08:25:19 AM
Listened to him while he was over in the UK and Ireland and the Piers Morgan interview, does anyone tell him he talks complete crap when doing interviews? I'm actually embarrassed for the guy, he seems bullet proof, nothing fazes him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyroneman on June 07, 2019, 08:41:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2019, 08:25:19 AM
Listened to him while he was over in the UK and Ireland and the Piers Morgan interview, does anyone tell him he talks complete crap when doing interviews? I'm actually embarrassed for the guy, he seems bullet proof, nothing fazes him.

Morgan or Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 07, 2019, 05:48:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 06, 2019, 07:12:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 06, 2019, 05:12:31 PM
The amount of cap-doffing and forelock-tugging in Doonbeg was cringeworthy.
don't believe what the locals think believe the guy 5000 miles away

What?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on June 28, 2019, 10:52:21 AM
Tulsi Gabbard a clear favourite then? Anti-war mongering really chimes with the US public post Iraq. It was part of trumps campaign too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on June 29, 2019, 02:50:38 PM
Anyone watch the Democrat debates. Joe Biden is done I'd say. Some candidates really came from nowhere to shine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 29, 2019, 07:55:03 PM
This is a very interesting discussion about Trump and his state of health




https://mobile.twitter.com/TomJChicago/status/1144793452686848000
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 29, 2019, 09:23:42 PM
He was playing golf in Ireland like 3 weeks ago!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 01, 2019, 04:25:46 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 29, 2019, 02:50:38 PM
Anyone watch the Democrat debates. Joe Biden is done I'd say. Some candidates really came from nowhere to shine.
What's up with your one Marianne Williamson? Is it just me or was she high during the debate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on July 03, 2019, 03:25:34 PM
 Absolutely horrific conditions.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/help-photos-show-hundreds-migrants-squashed-cells-appealing-assistance-n1025831 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/help-photos-show-hundreds-migrants-squashed-cells-appealing-assistance-n1025831)

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/1358-ig-report-migrant-detention/2dd9d40be6a6b0cd3619/optimized/full.pdf#page=1 (https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/1358-ig-report-migrant-detention/2dd9d40be6a6b0cd3619/optimized/full.pdf#page=1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 03, 2019, 07:27:25 PM
If the media isn't going to call them concentration camps, they can at least call them detention camps. Enough of this "facilities" and "centers" rubbish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on July 03, 2019, 11:40:28 PM
https://youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs&t=97s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on July 05, 2019, 10:42:52 AM
Trump thinks American troops took over airports during the War of Independence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on July 05, 2019, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on July 05, 2019, 10:42:52 AM
Trump thinks American troops took over airports during the War of Independence.

In fairness this one is on the speech writer. Unless Trump went on a solo run.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 05, 2019, 01:29:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 03, 2019, 07:27:25 PM
If the media isn't going to call them concentration camps, they can at least call them detention camps. Enough of this "facilities" and "centers" rubbish.

Trump reuses.

https://time.com/5605120/trump-migrant-children-fort-sill/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2019, 02:30:01 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2019, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on July 05, 2019, 10:42:52 AM
Trump thinks American troops took over airports during the War of Independence.

In fairness this one is on the speech writer. Unless Trump went on a solo run.

"something I had planned long ago but had the idea yesterday" - Donald J Trump

https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1145218160720842752

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 24, 2019, 10:16:40 PM
Well - the Dems are actually going for impeachment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 24, 2019, 10:27:12 PM
Inquiry into whether to pursue impeachment, no?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on September 27, 2019, 09:36:44 AM
Impeachment looming and this thread goes off the radar for 3 days!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2019, 10:57:25 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on September 27, 2019, 09:36:44 AM
Impeachment looming and this thread goes off the radar for 3 days!!!!

It pointless.....after a week of discussion we will end up with the 2 positions we started with

This is worse than Watergate and Trump should be impeached and thrown out of office

V

This is deep state attempted coup to overthrow the result of the 2016 election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2019, 11:31:06 AM
Trump has dementia
He should be under medical care anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2019, 05:08:40 PM
Seriously though. This is worse than Watergate and Trump should be impeached and thrown out of office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 27, 2019, 07:25:51 PM
Have the potential impeachment hanging over trumps head as the next election comes along so he doesn't get re-elected that's the Democrats playbook because they don't have a viable candidate who can beat him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2019, 07:37:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2019, 07:25:51 PM
Have the potential impeachment hanging over trumps head as the next election comes along so he doesn't get re-elected that's the Democrats playbook because they don't have a viable candidate who can beat him.

I think Biden's all done so it will be Warren

I can't see Warren beating Trump

Mueller report was a bust, so now they're pulling out all the stops to beat him on a point of law, rather than at the ballot box.

Only thing that may save Trump is that if the investigation into the Dossier/FISA has major findings against the Democrats. I'd say that's 50/50 at this point
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on September 27, 2019, 07:38:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2019, 07:25:51 PM
Have the potential impeachment hanging over trumps head as the next election comes along so he doesn't get re-elected that's the Democrats playbook because they don't have a viable candidate who can beat him.

Do the Democrats not have a few candidates polling ahead of him? Even Biden and he makes more gaffes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2019, 08:19:06 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 27, 2019, 07:38:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2019, 07:25:51 PM
Have the potential impeachment hanging over trumps head as the next election comes along so he doesn't get re-elected that's the Democrats playbook because they don't have a viable candidate who can beat him.

Do the Democrats not have a few candidates polling ahead of him? Even Biden and he makes more gaffes.

National polls are meaningless, the election is decided by about 5% of the voters in about 10 swing States
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2019, 09:30:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2019, 07:37:45 PM
I can't see Warren beating Trump

He didn't bring back steam trains or all the coal jobs that he promised, and the lies of Fox News and AM radio are only going to go so far. He can go ahead and tell  lies that he's building his stupid wall, but that's only going to fool a small number of people.

Warren is far more down-to-Earth than Hillary was, and I think the voters in the rust belt see far more in common with her than they do with Trump. There's a very real chance Warren will be the next President.

Quote
Mueller report was a bust, so now they're pulling out all the stops to beat him on a point of law, rather than at the ballot box.
The law is not an inconvenient technicality. Trump has to obey it. He doesn't.

Quote
Only thing that may save Trump is that if the investigation into the Dossier/FISA has major findings against the Democrats. I'd say that's 50/50 at this point
I wouldn't count on that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 27, 2019, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2019, 09:30:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2019, 07:37:45 PM
I can't see Warren beating Trump

He didn't bring back steam trains or all the coal jobs that he promised, and the lies of Fox News and AM radio are only going to go so far. He can go ahead and tell  lies that he's building his stupid wall, but that's only going to fool a small number of people.

Warren is far more down-to-Earth than Hillary was, and I think the voters in the rust belt see far more in common with her than they do with Trump. There's a very real chance Warren will be the next President.

Quote
Mueller report was a bust, so now they're pulling out all the stops to beat him on a point of law, rather than at the ballot box.
The law is not an inconvenient technicality. Trump has to obey it. He doesn't.

Quote
Only thing that may save Trump is that if the investigation into the Dossier/FISA has major findings against the Democrats. I'd say that's 50/50 at this point
I wouldn't count on that.

Yeah....she has a good chance of beating him but its by no means a done deal.

Open borders and abolition of private healthcare will be highly problematic positions to defend a general election

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/elizabeth-warrens-shift-puts-health-insurers-in-2020-crossfire.html

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/07/are-democrats-now-the-party-of-open-borders/

"But I have to admit that it's hard to see much daylight between Warren's plan and de facto open borders.". AND THATS FROM MOTHER JONES
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on September 28, 2019, 04:37:10 AM
Wisconsin Michigan and Pennsylvania could easily slip back democratic if they motivate the base to get out and vote.
Arizona could easily go Democrat this election also. Texas has the potential too tho prob not 2020. Thing is if they mentioned guns less they could prob take Texas, and Arizona at a canter.
I was impressed with Warren when I seen her on the other night seems to have good energy for her age and a positive personality. Joe seems a little bit slow and always on the back foot, alot of baggage too, this latest crap ain't gonna help, you get his time may have passed. Camilla Harris is just Hillary Clinton mk2.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2019, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2019, 07:25:51 PM
Have the potential impeachment hanging over trumps head as the next election comes along so he doesn't get re-elected that's the Democrats playbook because they don't have a viable candidate who can beat him.

Its more than 13 months to the election.

If he is going to be impeached, it will be long before that.

And you're disregarding, whether intentionally or not, the unpredictability of the fallout. Pelosi has been as reluctant as hell partly because she fears damaging the Dems chances and boosting Trump. But he's basically forced her hand with this latest idiocy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2019, 02:45:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2019, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2019, 09:30:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2019, 07:37:45 PM
I can't see Warren beating Trump

He didn't bring back steam trains or all the coal jobs that he promised, and the lies of Fox News and AM radio are only going to go so far. He can go ahead and tell  lies that he's building his stupid wall, but that's only going to fool a small number of people.

Warren is far more down-to-Earth than Hillary was, and I think the voters in the rust belt see far more in common with her than they do with Trump. There's a very real chance Warren will be the next President.

Quote
Mueller report was a bust, so now they're pulling out all the stops to beat him on a point of law, rather than at the ballot box.
The law is not an inconvenient technicality. Trump has to obey it. He doesn't.

Quote
Only thing that may save Trump is that if the investigation into the Dossier/FISA has major findings against the Democrats. I'd say that's 50/50 at this point
I wouldn't count on that.

Yeah....she has a good chance of beating him but its by no means a done deal.

Open borders and abolition of private healthcare will be highly problematic positions to defend a general election

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/elizabeth-warrens-shift-puts-health-insurers-in-2020-crossfire.html

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/07/are-democrats-now-the-party-of-open-borders/

"But I have to admit that it's hard to see much daylight between Warren's plan and de facto open borders.". AND THATS FROM MOTHER JONES

Au contraire:

70 percent of Americans support 'Medicare for all' proposal (https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-percent-of-americans-support-medicare-for-all-health-care)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 30, 2019, 10:06:39 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2019, 02:45:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2019, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2019, 09:30:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 27, 2019, 07:37:45 PM
I can't see Warren beating Trump

He didn't bring back steam trains or all the coal jobs that he promised, and the lies of Fox News and AM radio are only going to go so far. He can go ahead and tell  lies that he's building his stupid wall, but that's only going to fool a small number of people.

Warren is far more down-to-Earth than Hillary was, and I think the voters in the rust belt see far more in common with her than they do with Trump. There's a very real chance Warren will be the next President.

Quote
Mueller report was a bust, so now they're pulling out all the stops to beat him on a point of law, rather than at the ballot box.
The law is not an inconvenient technicality. Trump has to obey it. He doesn't.

Quote
Only thing that may save Trump is that if the investigation into the Dossier/FISA has major findings against the Democrats. I'd say that's 50/50 at this point
I wouldn't count on that.

Yeah....she has a good chance of beating him but its by no means a done deal.

Open borders and abolition of private healthcare will be highly problematic positions to defend a general election

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/elizabeth-warrens-shift-puts-health-insurers-in-2020-crossfire.html

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/07/are-democrats-now-the-party-of-open-borders/

"But I have to admit that it's hard to see much daylight between Warren's plan and de facto open borders.". AND THATS FROM MOTHER JONES

Au contraire:

70 percent of Americans support 'Medicare for all' proposal (https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-percent-of-americans-support-medicare-for-all-health-care)

Yyyyaaaawwwwwnnnnnn

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/support-for-medicare-for-all-plummets-if-it-means-getting-rid-of-private-insurance-system-poll-finds/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on September 30, 2019, 01:19:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2019, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2019, 07:25:51 PM
Have the potential impeachment hanging over trumps head as the next election comes along so he doesn't get re-elected that's the Democrats playbook because they don't have a viable candidate who can beat him.

Its more than 13 months to the election.

If he is going to be impeached, it will be long before that.

And you're disregarding, whether intentionally or not, the unpredictability of the fallout. Pelosi has been as reluctant as hell partly because she fears damaging the Dems chances and boosting Trump. But he's basically forced her hand with this latest idiocy.

Agree with that pure stupidity etc, but if the economy is in as good as shape a year from now as it is today, (and that is a bit questionable given the potential impact of the tariff on business confidence=consumer confidence), then Trump will get reelected, do you think folks in some of the aforementioned states give a shite about Ukraine if the are earning a lot more than they were 4,8,10 years ago.
The only Democrat among this group, I would have voted for, Biden, is being thrown under the bus by his own party, who feel he is not left enough for the loudest of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2019, 04:25:59 PM
Quote from: joemamas on September 30, 2019, 01:19:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2019, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2019, 07:25:51 PM
Have the potential impeachment hanging over trumps head as the next election comes along so he doesn't get re-elected that's the Democrats playbook because they don't have a viable candidate who can beat him.

Its more than 13 months to the election.

If he is going to be impeached, it will be long before that.

And you're disregarding, whether intentionally or not, the unpredictability of the fallout. Pelosi has been as reluctant as hell partly because she fears damaging the Dems chances and boosting Trump. But he's basically forced her hand with this latest idiocy.

Agree with that pure stupidity etc, but if the economy is in as good as shape a year from now as it is today, (and that is a bit questionable given the potential impact of the tariff on business confidence=consumer confidence), then Trump will get reelected, do you think folks in some of the aforementioned states give a shite about Ukraine if the are earning a lot more than they were 4,8,10 years ago.
The only Democrat among this group, I would have voted for, Biden, is being thrown under the bus by his own party, who feel he is not left enough for the loudest of them.

Unfortunately for Biden, he has nearly 50 years of service in politics, and has been very inarticulate and incoherent in addressing policy positions he once held. If he is getting rattled by Kamila Harris and the young liberal base of the party, how the hell is he going to stand up to the carnage, shamelessness and nihilism of Trump and the GOP and the right wing media in a general election campaign? They will chew him up, spit him out and rub what's left into the dirt. Had he effectively explained that society and people evolve and learn and change over time, that what is presumed to be correct or self-evident today may not be so in 30 years, he'd still be in good shape. But he couldn't even handle that relatively easy part of the process. Its unfortunate, as I myself would be someone to whom his moderate brand of liberalism would appeal. Maybe he'll still come through the primaries, but I have serious doubts that he would be able for what Trump brings (this is a man who, in his own primary, campaigned on Ted Cruz's father being part of the Kennedy assassination! There is no depth to which he will not descend).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 01, 2019, 03:32:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2019, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2019, 07:25:51 PM
Have the potential impeachment hanging over trumps head as the next election comes along so he doesn't get re-elected that's the Democrats playbook because they don't have a viable candidate who can beat him.

Its more than 13 months to the election.

If he is going to be impeached, it will be long before that.

And you're disregarding, whether intentionally or not, the unpredictability of the fallout. Pelosi has been as reluctant as hell partly because she fears damaging the Dems chances and boosting Trump. But he's basically forced her hand with this latest idiocy.
u think that it will stop if this one fails ? Well at least Nancy is praying for trump and is very prayerful right now .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 04, 2019, 08:15:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2019, 03:32:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2019, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 27, 2019, 07:25:51 PM
Have the potential impeachment hanging over trumps head as the next election comes along so he doesn't get re-elected that's the Democrats playbook because they don't have a viable candidate who can beat him.

Its more than 13 months to the election.

If he is going to be impeached, it will be long before that.

And you're disregarding, whether intentionally or not, the unpredictability of the fallout. Pelosi has been as reluctant as hell partly because she fears damaging the Dems chances and boosting Trump. But he's basically forced her hand with this latest idiocy.
u think that it will stop if this one fails ? Well at least Nancy is praying for trump and is very prayerful right now .

That Trump will stop?

No, of course not. The man can't help himself.

Kelly Anne Conway's husband puts that exact case together quite convincingly in The Atlantic this week (long, but well worth the read).

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/george-conway-trump-unfit-office/599128/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/george-conway-trump-unfit-office/599128/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 01, 2019, 10:35:44 PM
Beto's out!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2019, 07:16:37 PM
Jaysis I thought there would be more chat on here after a big day in the US.

Roger Stone guilty indeed all counts and the President being pegged for witness intimidation...

How will this play out over the next while??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2019, 12:10:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2019, 07:16:37 PM
Jaysis I thought there would be more chat on here after a big day in the US.

Roger Stone guilty indeed all counts and the President being pegged for witness intimidation...

How will this play out over the next while??

Stone will be pardoned.

Trump will come through unscathed no matter what is revealed.

Sin e.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 18, 2019, 07:40:30 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2019, 07:16:37 PM
Jaysis I thought there would be more chat on here after a big day in the US.

Roger Stone guilty indeed all counts and the President being pegged for witness intimidation...

How will this play out over the next while??

This administration has been piling up so many criminal indictments, guilty verdicts and prison sentences that it's hard to keep up. Trump is a master of the art of piling so much awfulness on top of awfulness that you don't know where to look for awfulness. Watch this, tomorrow the administration will probably make another announcement that they're going to torch the place by scrapping voting rights, or deporting some minority, or opening up the Grand Canyon for oil exploration, or something. It's become an almost daily occurrence that people are just numb to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 18, 2019, 11:08:31 PM
What'd I tell ya?

Pompeo announces reversal of longstanding US policy on Israeli settlements (https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/politics/pompeo-west-bank-settlements-announcement/index.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2019, 11:07:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 18, 2019, 11:08:31 PM
What'd I tell ya?

Pompeo announces reversal of longstanding US policy on Israeli settlements (https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/politics/pompeo-west-bank-settlements-announcement/index.html)

Palestinians aren't human beings to these fuckwits. Just like Guatemalans and others who had their kids ripped away at the border.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2019, 01:07:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2019, 11:07:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 18, 2019, 11:08:31 PM
What'd I tell ya?

Pompeo announces reversal of longstanding US policy on Israeli settlements (https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/politics/pompeo-west-bank-settlements-announcement/index.html)

Palestinians aren't human beings to these fuckwits. Just like Guatemalans and others who had their kids ripped away at the border.
the Israeli occupation is living on borrowed time.
The future is left wing in the US and UK.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 19, 2019, 01:32:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 18, 2019, 11:08:31 PM
What'd I tell ya?

Pompeo announces reversal of longstanding US policy on Israeli settlements (https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/politics/pompeo-west-bank-settlements-announcement/index.html)

Swalwell stealing Trumps thunder it seems.   ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 19, 2019, 05:17:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2019, 01:07:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2019, 11:07:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 18, 2019, 11:08:31 PM
What'd I tell ya?

Pompeo announces reversal of longstanding US policy on Israeli settlements (https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/politics/pompeo-west-bank-settlements-announcement/index.html)

Palestinians aren't human beings to these fuckwits. Just like Guatemalans and others who had their kids ripped away at the border.
the Israeli occupation is living on borrowed time.
The future is left wing in the US and UK.

I wish that were true. The Palestinian issue has dropped off the radar of Israeli voters, the two-state solution is dead in the water, there's no sign of anything stopping the settlement-building in the West Bank, and every once in a while Israel gives the people of Gaza a pounding and there's not much in the way of negative consequences for them. As far as I can see the Palestinians are f***ed, unless they can somehow mobilise their diaspora and build some alliances. Even if America takes a left turn at the next election, the Israeli lobby still has a tight grip on influence in Washington. You still have to recite the "I support Israel" prayer in order to get elected in the US (unless you're AOC and a few other exceptions who run net-roots campaigns), and anybody that dares criticize Israel immediately gets Corbyned.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 20, 2019, 06:33:08 PM
Bit quiet in here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:11:43 PM
We're probably all watching the impeachment hearings and shaking our heads at the media coverage complaining about it being "dull."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
Can he weasel out of this one now...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2019, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
Can he weasel out of this one now...?
Will 30 GOP senators vote against him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ambrose on November 21, 2019, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2019, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
Can he weasel out of this one now...?
Will 30 GOP senators vote against him?

It won't happen, sadly.

I wouldn't bet against another 4 years of the great orange man baby.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 21, 2019, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on November 21, 2019, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2019, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
Can he weasel out of this one now...?
Will 30 GOP senators vote against him?

It won't happen, sadly.

I wouldn't bet against another 4 years of the great orange man baby.

It's a distinct possibility. Betting odds:

Trump: 26/19 (about 1.3/1)
Warren: 7/1
Biden: 7/1
Sanders: 10/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyroneman on November 22, 2019, 08:42:53 AM
Much like the UK there is just no credible challenger to the incumbents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 22, 2019, 09:18:14 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on November 21, 2019, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2019, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
Can he weasel out of this one now...?
Will 30 GOP senators vote against him?

It won't happen, sadly.

I wouldn't bet against another 4 years of the great orange man baby.

Trump never said a truer thing that he could shot someone on 5th Avenue and it wouldn't impact on his base vote.

4 more years it is if his mental health could hold out in the meantime.  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 23, 2019, 04:32:59 PM
Careful who p//s off.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/22/john-bolton-accuses-white-house-blocking-access-twitter-account
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 23, 2019, 05:18:39 PM
The best book written about Trump (and his incompetence) is "The Fifth Risk" by Michael Lewis.  It confirmed everything I've suspected from day one.

https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Risk-Michael-Lewis/dp/1324002646

On another note was no one else alarmed by the fact that Fiona Hill had been given a copy of the (fake) Steele Dossier by a Clinton Insider before it was out in public

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/11/21/fiona-hill-steele-dossier
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 19, 2019, 01:41:55 AM
Trump has been impeached
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2019, 02:08:38 AM
Quote from: dec on December 19, 2019, 01:41:55 AM
Trump has been impeached

Wake me up in four years when this nightmare is over. :(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 19, 2019, 11:06:00 AM
What are the dems. thinking. Yes, gotta have all the evidence and run Biden maybe.  Oh and with a rep. senate.  Maybe it'll work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 19, 2019, 11:14:44 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 19, 2019, 11:06:00 AM
What are the dems. thinking. Yes, gotta have all the evidence and run Biden maybe.  Oh and with a rep. senate.  Maybe it'll work.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lurganblue on December 19, 2019, 01:01:32 PM
It's getting lively over in yank land...

"Donald Trump has become the third US president in history to be impeached by the House of Representatives, setting up a trial in the Senate that will decide whether he remains in office.

The House voted on two charges - that the president had abused his power and that he had obstructed Congress.

Nearly all Democrats voted for the charges and every Republican against.

President Trump's Republicans control the Senate so it is highly unlikely he will be removed from power.

Democrats are already unhappy at the way the trial could be held. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has now indicated it might delay sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate, in order to bargain on the terms of the proceedings.
"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 19, 2019, 02:11:42 PM
Can you imagine, if under a Republican President, Hillary's campaign has been surveilled using fraudulent wiretaps, drummed up by FBI agents and attorneys who by their own admission (via texts) said they would do everything in their power to defeat her candidacy?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
Average person couldn't give a shi*e.
In any event, next September something like 46% on each side have their mind made up which way they are voting.
The remaining 6-8% will ultimately decide the out come.
Economy is booming, unemployment at 3.5% lowest since 1969, an incumbent has never lost with the unemployment rate at current levels, a lot of the undecided folks may just say, why change especially in light of current Democratic line up. Personally I would consider voting for Biden, who I think is a decent human being, but I cringe when I see him in debates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on December 19, 2019, 03:44:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2019, 02:11:42 PM
Can you imagine, if under a Republican President, Hillary's campaign has been surveilled using fraudulent wiretaps, drummed up by FBI agents and attorneys who by their own admission (via texts) said they would do everything in their power to defeat her candidacy?
Here but you didn't vote for him , and sure hes a democrat anyway according to you. So why are democrats after one of their own and why are the republicans supporting him? Bit weird no?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 19, 2019, 03:48:21 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 19, 2019, 03:44:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2019, 02:11:42 PM
Can you imagine, if under a Republican President, Hillary's campaign has been surveilled using fraudulent wiretaps, drummed up by FBI agents and attorneys who by their own admission (via texts) said they would do everything in their power to defeat her candidacy?
Here but you didn't vote for him , and sure hes a democrat anyway according to you. So why are democrats after one of their own and why are the republicans supporting him? Bit weird no?

Just pointing out the rank hypocrisy.  The Democrats seem to light their hair on fire at the slightest affront, but this is the real scandal.....THIS is bigger than Watergate

I don't think I ever said he was a Democrat....others have said that, but to the best of my knowledge I have never used that spin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 19, 2019, 04:15:00 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
Average person couldn't give a shi*e.
In any event, next September something like 46% on each side have their mind made up which way they are voting.
The remaining 6-8% will ultimately decide the out come.
Economy is booming, unemployment at 3.5% lowest since 1969, an incumbent has never lost with the unemployment rate at current levels, a lot of the undecided folks may just say, why change especially in light of current Democratic line up. Personally I would consider voting for Biden, who I think is a decent human being, but I cringe when I see him in debates.
The economy is not booming.
Wages are crap for most new jobs .
The US economy is a Ponzi scheme
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 19, 2019, 04:39:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 19, 2019, 04:15:00 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
Average person couldn't give a shi*e.
In any event, next September something like 46% on each side have their mind made up which way they are voting.
The remaining 6-8% will ultimately decide the out come.
Economy is booming, unemployment at 3.5% lowest since 1969, an incumbent has never lost with the unemployment rate at current levels, a lot of the undecided folks may just say, why change especially in light of current Democratic line up. Personally I would consider voting for Biden, who I think is a decent human being, but I cringe when I see him in debates.
The economy is not booming.
Wages are crap for most new jobs .
The US economy is a Ponzi scheme

Really....where in the States do you live, because it's certainly not the case where I am
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2019, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
Average person couldn't give a shi*e.
In any event, next September something like 46% on each side have their mind made up which way they are voting.
The remaining 6-8% will ultimately decide the out come.
Economy is booming, unemployment at 3.5% lowest since 1969, an incumbent has never lost with the unemployment rate at current levels, a lot of the undecided folks may just say, why change especially in light of current Democratic line up. Personally I would consider voting for Biden, who I think is a decent human being, but I cringe when I see him in debates.

I think the average person does give a shite, but is basically tuning out and washing their hands of it all in despair.

I don't remember the last time I watched the evening news, and I've quit listening to political podcasts.

I'm glad to see some grit and balls and political smarts on the Democratic side in the House, but its unfortunately lacking in the presidential line-up. Trump will probably chew up and spit out whoever the unfortunate nominee ends up being, not on policy or results (good luck defending the more immoral aspects of his presidency and policies, all issues which would have doomed any other person, 3.5% employment or not – BTW it was only about a point above that three years ago when he took over) but on simple shamelessness, classlessness, brazen lying and the willingness to descend to any depth imaginable to win. The GOP will probably win another four years and continue their assault on the environment, the poor, LGBTs and minorities, all the while continuing to whine about victimhood and continuing to defend the conduct of the most immoral and corrupt man ever to hold the office in most of our lifetimes.

If it continues, I reckon the country would be better off splitting. I don't see much common ground to be shared the way things are heading with the GOP and Trump. Let them go form their Christian utopia where gays are back in the closet, the environment is irrelevant, immigrants are subhuman and guns ubiquitous and leave the rest of us alone to our sensible devices.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 06:08:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2019, 04:39:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 19, 2019, 04:15:00 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
Average person couldn't give a shi*e.
In any event, next September something like 46% on each side have their mind made up which way they are voting.
The remaining 6-8% will ultimately decide the out come.
Economy is booming, unemployment at 3.5% lowest since 1969, an incumbent has never lost with the unemployment rate at current levels, a lot of the undecided folks may just say, why change especially in light of current Democratic line up. Personally I would consider voting for Biden, who I think is a decent human being, but I cringe when I see him in debates.
The economy is not booming.
Wages are crap for most new jobs .
The US economy is a Ponzi scheme

Really....where in the States do you live, because it's certainly not the case where I am

Galway State, oh wait that it not in the US.
Sorry to report from the real US, economy is booming, I meet a few Irish general contractors from time to time, same complaint or concern, they cannot get workers who are competent, Carpenters, Plumbers and even electricians,
Salaries for blue collar workers are increasing more because of this, and btw, this is a very good thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 06:26:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 19, 2019, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
Average person couldn't give a shi*e.
In any event, next September something like 46% on each side have their mind made up which way they are voting.
The remaining 6-8% will ultimately decide the out come.
Economy is booming, unemployment at 3.5% lowest since 1969, an incumbent has never lost with the unemployment rate at current levels, a lot of the undecided folks may just say, why change especially in light of current Democratic line up. Personally I would consider voting for Biden, who I think is a decent human being, but I cringe when I see him in debates.

I think the average person does give a shite, but is basically tuning out and washing their hands of it all in despair.

I don't remember the last time I watched the evening news, and I've quit listening to political podcasts.

I'm glad to see some grit and balls and political smarts on the Democratic side in the House, but its unfortunately lacking in the presidential line-up. Trump will probably chew up and spit out whoever the unfortunate nominee ends up being, not on policy or results (good luck defending the more immoral aspects of his presidency and policies, all issues which would have doomed any other person, 3.5% employment or not – BTW it was only about a point above that three years ago when he took over) but on simple shamelessness, classlessness, brazen lying and the willingness to descend to any depth imaginable to win. The GOP will probably win another four years and continue their assault on the environment, the poor, LGBTs and minorities, all the while continuing to whine about victimhood and continuing to defend the conduct of the most immoral and corrupt man ever to hold the office in most of our lifetimes.

If it continues, I reckon the country would be better off splitting. I don't see much common ground to be shared the way things are heading with the GOP and Trump. Let them go form their Christian utopia where gays are back in the closet, the environment is irrelevant, immigrants are subhuman and guns ubiquitous and leave the rest of us alone to our sensible devices.

I take offense to that generalization, I became a republican voter, over the past decade, was a democrat when I came here many many moons ago.
I feel fortunate, I will not apologize for that, I worked my ass off.  I make sure my kids understand that is the way to succeed, and also how important it is to work hard and then to help people who are less well off.  That is my definition of a republican/conservative.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 19, 2019, 07:08:46 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 06:08:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2019, 04:39:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 19, 2019, 04:15:00 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
Average person couldn't give a shi*e.
In any event, next September something like 46% on each side have their mind made up which way they are voting.
The remaining 6-8% will ultimately decide the out come.
Economy is booming, unemployment at 3.5% lowest since 1969, an incumbent has never lost with the unemployment rate at current levels, a lot of the undecided folks may just say, why change especially in light of current Democratic line up. Personally I would consider voting for Biden, who I think is a decent human being, but I cringe when I see him in debates.
The economy is not booming.
Wages are crap for most new jobs .
The US economy is a Ponzi scheme

Really....where in the States do you live, because it's certainly not the case where I am

Galway State, oh wait that it not in the US.
Sorry to report from the real US, economy is booming, I meet a few Irish general contractors from time to time, same complaint or concern, they cannot get workers who are competent, Carpenters, Plumbers and even electricians,
Salaries for blue collar workers is increasing more because of this, and btw, this is a very good thing.

Oh so there is another housing bubble. Jaysus

How did the last wan get on? It crashed. They all do

The rich own most of the US. They own the medical insurance industry. The private prisons. The stock market. The bonds
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2019, 07:12:48 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 06:26:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 19, 2019, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
Average person couldn't give a shi*e.
In any event, next September something like 46% on each side have their mind made up which way they are voting.
The remaining 6-8% will ultimately decide the out come.
Economy is booming, unemployment at 3.5% lowest since 1969, an incumbent has never lost with the unemployment rate at current levels, a lot of the undecided folks may just say, why change especially in light of current Democratic line up. Personally I would consider voting for Biden, who I think is a decent human being, but I cringe when I see him in debates.

I think the average person does give a shite, but is basically tuning out and washing their hands of it all in despair.

I don't remember the last time I watched the evening news, and I've quit listening to political podcasts.

I'm glad to see some grit and balls and political smarts on the Democratic side in the House, but its unfortunately lacking in the presidential line-up. Trump will probably chew up and spit out whoever the unfortunate nominee ends up being, not on policy or results (good luck defending the more immoral aspects of his presidency and policies, all issues which would have doomed any other person, 3.5% employment or not – BTW it was only about a point above that three years ago when he took over) but on simple shamelessness, classlessness, brazen lying and the willingness to descend to any depth imaginable to win. The GOP will probably win another four years and continue their assault on the environment, the poor, LGBTs and minorities, all the while continuing to whine about victimhood and continuing to defend the conduct of the most immoral and corrupt man ever to hold the office in most of our lifetimes.

If it continues, I reckon the country would be better off splitting. I don't see much common ground to be shared the way things are heading with the GOP and Trump. Let them go form their Christian utopia where gays are back in the closet, the environment is irrelevant, immigrants are subhuman and guns ubiquitous and leave the rest of us alone to our sensible devices.

I take offense to that generalization, I became a republican voter, over the past decade, was a democrat when I came here many many moons ago.
I feel fortunate, I will not apologize for that, I worked my ass off.  I make sure my kids understand that is the way to succeed, and also how important it is to work hard and then to help people who are less well off.  That is my definition of a republican/conservative.

Whether or not you take offense, US conservatism is now defined by Trump and the far right and reactionary constituencies he leads.

If you're of a more moderate bent, I genuinely and sincerely hope you and your ilk take the party and movement back.

Because I am f**king scared of where it's headed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 19, 2019, 07:17:17 PM
J70-do you think the taxpayers should be on the hook for prisoners gender reassignment surgery?

Do you think males athletes be able to self identify as female and then apply for college scholarships?

If you answered no to either question, then you are a homo/trans phobe according to many on the left?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2019, 07:56:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2019, 07:17:17 PM
J70-do you think the taxpayers should be on the hook for prisoners gender reassignment surgery?

Do you think males athletes be able to self identify as female and then apply for college scholarships?

If you answered no to either question, then you are a homo/trans phobe according to many on the left?

Haven't given either much thought to be honest. But neither is a black and white issue to me. The acceptance/mainstreaming of transexuality we are currently undergoing (a good thing) is obviously going to pose questions, sometimes difficult, in what has been a binary world when it comes to gender.

But who is engaging in such name-calling?

Any Democratic candidates? Prominent politicians? To what and to whom where they responding?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on December 19, 2019, 10:14:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2019, 07:17:17 PM
J70-do you think the taxpayers should be on the hook for prisoners gender reassignment surgery?

Do you think males athletes be able to self identify as female and then apply for college scholarships?

If you answered no to either question, then you are a homo/trans phobe according to many on the left?

How many people, out of the 327 or so million in the states, do those 2 issues relate to?
Are they particularly close to your heart for some reason?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 19, 2019, 11:16:52 PM
I love the stupid shite whitey comes out with sometimes hahahahha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2019, 12:12:09 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 19, 2019, 11:16:52 PM
I love the stupid shite whitey comes out with sometimes hahahahha


Lol-Elizabeth Warren actually has a position on this matter and if you disagree with it her supporters will jump all over you and call you a transphobe

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/11/warrens_transgender_inmate_stance_counters_her_2012_position_141464.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on December 20, 2019, 01:02:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 12:12:09 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 19, 2019, 11:16:52 PM
I love the stupid shite whitey comes out with sometimes hahahahha


Lol-Elizabeth Warren actually has a position on this matter and if you disagree with it her supporters will jump all over you and call you a transphobe

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/11/warrens_transgender_inmate_stance_counters_her_2012_position_141464.html

You are bringing this issue to the board. Is it something that is particularly close to your heart?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2019, 01:31:18 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on December 20, 2019, 01:02:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 12:12:09 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 19, 2019, 11:16:52 PM
I love the stupid shite whitey comes out with sometimes hahahahha


Lol-Elizabeth Warren actually has a position on this matter and if you disagree with it her supporters will jump all over you and call you a transphobe

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/11/warrens_transgender_inmate_stance_counters_her_2012_position_141464.html

You are bringing this issue to the board. Is it something that is particularly close to your heart?

No.....I was responding to a dire prediction that J70 made

" The GOP will probably win another four years and continue their assault on the environment, the poor, LGBTs and minorities, all the while continuing to whine about victimhood and continuing to defend the conduct of the most immoral and corrupt man ever to hold the office in most of our lifetimes.

If it continues, I reckon the country would be better off splitting. I don't see much common ground to be shared the way things are heading with the GOP and Trump. Let them go form their Christian utopia where gays are back in the closet,"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2019, 08:32:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2019, 07:17:17 PM
J70-do you think the taxpayers should be on the hook for prisoners gender reassignment surgery?

Do you think males athletes be able to self identify as female and then apply for college scholarships?

If you answered no to either question, then you are a homo/trans phobe according to many on the left?
Should tax payers be on the hook for plutocrats, Whitey ?
That is the bigger question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2019, 10:39:46 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 01:31:18 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on December 20, 2019, 01:02:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 12:12:09 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 19, 2019, 11:16:52 PM
I love the stupid shite whitey comes out with sometimes hahahahha


Lol-Elizabeth Warren actually has a position on this matter and if you disagree with it her supporters will jump all over you and call you a transphobe

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/11/warrens_transgender_inmate_stance_counters_her_2012_position_141464.html

You are bringing this issue to the board. Is it something that is particularly close to your heart?

No.....I was responding to a dire prediction that J70 made

" The GOP will probably win another four years and continue their assault on the environment, the poor, LGBTs and minorities, all the while continuing to whine about victimhood and continuing to defend the conduct of the most immoral and corrupt man ever to hold the office in most of our lifetimes.

If it continues, I reckon the country would be better off splitting. I don't see much common ground to be shared the way things are heading with the GOP and Trump. Let them go form their Christian utopia where gays are back in the closet,"

What's the dire prediction?

That Trump and the GOP are currently taking the country in an ugly direction (which I've already said I hope sensible conservatives pull the movement away from)? Or that if it does continue in that direction that the country might be better splitting up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2019, 10:46:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 12:12:09 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 19, 2019, 11:16:52 PM
I love the stupid shite whitey comes out with sometimes hahahahha


Lol-Elizabeth Warren actually has a position on this matter and if you disagree with it her supporters will jump all over you and call you a transphobe

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/11/warrens_transgender_inmate_stance_counters_her_2012_position_141464.html

You've been jumped on and called a transphobe by her supporters?

If so, for objecting to which part of her position?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2019, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2019, 08:32:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2019, 07:17:17 PM
J70-do you think the taxpayers should be on the hook for prisoners gender reassignment surgery?

Do you think males athletes be able to self identify as female and then apply for college scholarships?

If you answered no to either question, then you are a homo/trans phobe according to many on the left?
Should tax payers be on the hook for plutocrats, Whitey ?
That is the bigger question.

Top 10% already pay 70% of all income taxes

How much more would you like them to pay?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on December 20, 2019, 02:05:56 PM
What is the level of income of those 10^?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2019, 02:21:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 01:01:08 PM
Top 10% already pay 70% of all income taxes

How much more would you like them to pay?

Given the top 10% have over 99% of the wealth, I'd be expecting them to pay more than 70% of taxes. [note - not income taxes alone]

This is probably worth a read:

https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/who-are-the-rich-and-how-might-we-tax-them-more/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 20, 2019, 02:55:45 PM
Can someone tell me what the house impeached trump for ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2019, 03:04:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 20, 2019, 02:55:45 PM
Can someone tell me what the house impeached trump for ?

No news or google available to you?

Abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2019, 04:58:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2019, 08:32:28 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 19, 2019, 07:17:17 PM
J70-do you think the taxpayers should be on the hook for prisoners gender reassignment surgery?

Do you think males athletes be able to self identify as female and then apply for college scholarships?

If you answered no to either question, then you are a homo/trans phobe according to many on the left?
Should tax payers be on the hook for plutocrats, Whitey ?
That is the bigger question.

Top 10% already pay 70% of all income taxes

How much more would you like them to pay?

Median wages have been stagnant for 40 years. It's only a matter of time before the rich get soaked and payrises restart. That is how the game works.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2019, 06:14:54 PM
$100 billion of taxpayers' money spent per year on corporate welfare and the right wants us to worry about the health bills of a handful of transgender inmates.

My. Good. God.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 20, 2019, 09:22:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2019, 06:14:54 PM
$100 billion of taxpayers' money spent per year on corporate welfare and the right wants us to worry about the health bills of a handful of transgender inmates.

My. Good. God.

I'm not worried about it in the least......but I think it's fantastic that it has actually become a real issue in the Democratic Primary

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/10/26/bill_maher_to_democrats_stop_wearing_your_most_divisive_issues_on_your_sleeve.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2019, 04:26:41 AM
Sanders is pretty good at keeping the conversation focused on the "handful of billionayas," Warren is pretty good at it too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2019, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 09:22:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2019, 06:14:54 PM
$100 billion of taxpayers' money spent per year on corporate welfare and the right wants us to worry about the health bills of a handful of transgender inmates.

My. Good. God.

I'm not worried about it in the least......but I think it's fantastic that it has actually become a real issue in the Democratic Primary

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/10/26/bill_maher_to_democrats_stop_wearing_your_most_divisive_issues_on_your_sleeve.html

Its a "real issue" in the primary, or a candidate has expressed their support? Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but the issue of convicted criminals receiving gender reassignment surgey is not one I remember hearing about this year.

I remember a few years back, Jon Huntsman coming out in support of action to combat climate change.

Did that make the GOP the party of reason and scientific understanding back then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2019, 01:21:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2019, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 09:22:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 20, 2019, 06:14:54 PM
$100 billion of taxpayers' money spent per year on corporate welfare and the right wants us to worry about the health bills of a handful of transgender inmates.

My. Good. God.

I'm not worried about it in the least......but I think it's fantastic that it has actually become a real issue in the Democratic Primary

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/10/26/bill_maher_to_democrats_stop_wearing_your_most_divisive_issues_on_your_sleeve.html

Its a "real issue" in the primary, or a candidate has expressed their support? Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but the issue of convicted criminals receiving gender reassignment surgey is not one I remember hearing about this year.

I remember a few years back, Jon Huntsman coming out in support of action to combat climate change.

Did that make the GOP the party of reason and scientific understanding back then?

Well it's relevant enough that Bill Maher has taken to the airwaves to tell her to STFU about it

(Maybe it's gotten more airplay in Boston because it's a 180 to her position on the matter in her Senate race against Scott Brown in 2012)

https://thinkprogress.org/elizabeth-warren-transgender-prisoners-lgbtq-record-352c3b445bba/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 21, 2019, 02:08:14 PM
Society in general has changed on trans people in the past decade. Warren is hardly alone in changing her positions on it. Fact is most people had probably given it little thought at all before then.
The GOP is still struggling with gay marriage while the rest of the western world has accepted it and moved on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2019, 02:51:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2019, 02:08:14 PM
Society in general has changed on trans people in the past decade. Warren is hardly alone in changing her positions on it. Fact is most people had probably given it little thought at all before then.
The GOP is still struggling with gay marriage while the rest of the western world has accepted it and moved on.

Fantastic. That settles it then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 21, 2019, 04:11:52 PM
Nancy stalling on sending articles of impeachment to senate , I wonder why?
Hopefully she has a nice walk around her home town over the holidays and is able to avoid the thousands of homeless and the shit and piss everywhere in the streets of sf not to mention the rampant rise in thieves who actually walk into stores with calculators so they can steal just below the $950 limit that makes the crime a felony , welcome to San Francisco California a one party state
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 21, 2019, 05:53:56 PM
And where do you live?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 21, 2019, 07:20:33 PM
Quote from: omochain on December 21, 2019, 05:53:56 PM
And where do you live?
San Mateo county I work in sf I see the decline
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 22, 2019, 07:14:35 AM
You are a lucky man so .. you live in in one of the best places in the world. You are well housed, well fed and live close enough to Windy Hill to able to go for a pleasant walk and appreciate that you have it good. You live in the place that funds the profligate spending of the Republican Party. Your taxes fund the Hypocrisy of the sanctimonious evangelicals who laugh at us in the Bay Area because we look after the poor unfortunate people that they send west to better weather and better services. I guess you live in a state that is doing its best to practice Christianity.
Nollaig Shona Duit ... and if you are up for a beer in Fiddler's Green, Nancy and I live close by and would love to join you. We might even pay for it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on December 22, 2019, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2019, 02:21:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 20, 2019, 01:01:08 PM
Top 10% already pay 70% of all income taxes

How much more would you like them to pay?

Given the top 10% have over 99% of the wealth, I'd be expecting them to pay more than 70% of taxes. [note - not income taxes alone]

This is probably worth a read:

https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/who-are-the-rich-and-how-might-we-tax-them-more/



... and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3KE_H27bs&t=8s) worth a look.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 04, 2020, 05:56:20 AM
Some shambles in Iowa tonight hahahahaha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 04, 2020, 10:48:53 AM
Ap gate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2020, 12:04:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 04, 2020, 05:56:20 AM
Some shambles in Iowa tonight hahahahaha

Certain people don't want anything to change. Sanders represents change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2020, 12:05:20 PM
Bernie getting hosed again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 04, 2020, 12:14:54 PM
Sure Mayor Pete won... on to NH!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 04, 2020, 04:18:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 04, 2020, 12:14:54 PM
Sure Mayor Pete won... on to NH!!!

Reminds me of the time big Joe Joyce fought Aney McGinley and Aney's sons were carrying him aloft on their shoulders claiming victory, when Joe had in fact beaten the head off him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 04, 2020, 10:13:08 PM
Dems interfering in their own elections? Maybe they can blame trump or Russia or Ukraine for this , get schiff and Nadler  on this ASAP .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 04, 2020, 11:17:33 PM
Enjoying Bloomberg's campaign so far he's just in it to piss the President off so much he makes a mistake... "2 billionaires who's the other one?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 05, 2020, 12:59:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 04, 2020, 10:13:08 PM
Dems interfering in their own elections? Maybe they can blame trump or Russia or Ukraine for this , get schiff and Nadler  on this ASAP .

How do you think Hilary became their candidate last time out?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 04, 2020, 12:14:54 PM
Sure Mayor Pete won... on to NH!!!

It's very like the UK election. Anyone but the change maker
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 10:58:56 AM
Biden and Warren looking very ropey after NH
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 12, 2020, 11:08:59 AM
Don't forget the super delegates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 12, 2020, 12:04:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 10:58:56 AM
Biden and Warren looking very ropey after NH

I think they're both gone. Looks like Bloomberg could give Sanders a hosing come super Tuesday.

Bloomberg would be a disaster for the Dems Bernie supporters are not going to vote for a billionaya! Mayor Pete seems to be decent but from what I'm hearing doesn't have the X Factor to take on Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2020, 12:17:39 PM
Amy and Mayor Pete are probably the 2 best candidates for the Democrats

Bernie is a (likeable) wacko

Warren is a fraud and a phony and very unlike able

Joe is toast (Ukraine scandal pretty much finished him off)

Bloomberg would be good for the country but the real progressives won't support him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2020, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 12, 2020, 12:04:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 10:58:56 AM
Biden and Warren looking very ropey after NH

I think they're both gone. Looks like Bloomberg could give Sanders a hosing come super Tuesday.

Bloomberg would be a disaster for the Dems Bernie supporters are not going to vote for a billionaya! Mayor Pete seems to be decent but from what I'm hearing doesn't have the X Factor to take on Trump.

The Bernie bros need to get a f**king grip then, given the alternative, who's getting progressively more brazen and unhinged by the week.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 12, 2020, 02:12:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 12, 2020, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 12, 2020, 12:04:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 10:58:56 AM
Biden and Warren looking very ropey after NH

I think they're both gone. Looks like Bloomberg could give Sanders a hosing come super Tuesday.

Bloomberg would be a disaster for the Dems Bernie supporters are not going to vote for a billionaya! Mayor Pete seems to be decent but from what I'm hearing doesn't have the X Factor to take on Trump.

The Bernie bros need to get a f**king grip then, given the alternative, who's getting progressively more brazen and unhinged by the week.

Absolutely agree but like the Corbynites half of them are deranged and can't see the wood for the trees!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 02:21:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 12:17:39 PM
Amy and Mayor Pete are probably the 2 best candidates for the Democrats

Bernie is a (likeable) wacko

Warren is a fraud and a phony and very unlike able

Joe is toast (Ukraine scandal pretty much finished him off)

Bloomberg would be good for the country but the real progressives won't support him
Bernie would grow the economy.
Bloomberg would trigger the crash to wipe out your pension, Whitey

"The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind". H. L. Mencken
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2020, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 02:21:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 12:17:39 PM
Amy and Mayor Pete are probably the 2 best candidates for the Democrats

Bernie is a (likeable) wacko

Warren is a fraud and a phony and very unlike able

Joe is toast (Ukraine scandal pretty much finished him off)

Bloomberg would be good for the country but the real progressives won't support him
Bernie would grow the economy.
Bloomberg would trigger the crash to wipe out your pension, Whitey

"The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind". H. L. Mencken

A crash is on the way regardless of who gets in

No one actually knows whether Bernie would be good or bad for the economy.

Remember Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugmans dire warning when Trump got elected......how did that work out?

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/krugman-trump-global-recession-2016-231055
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 04:08:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 02:21:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 12:17:39 PM
Amy and Mayor Pete are probably the 2 best candidates for the Democrats

Bernie is a (likeable) wacko

Warren is a fraud and a phony and very unlike able

Joe is toast (Ukraine scandal pretty much finished him off)

Bloomberg would be good for the country but the real progressives won't support him
Bernie would grow the economy.
Bloomberg would trigger the crash to wipe out your pension, Whitey

"The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind". H. L. Mencken

A crash is on the way regardless of who gets in

No one actually knows whether Bernie would be good or bad for the economy.

Remember Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugmans dire warning when Trump got elected......how did that work out?

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/krugman-trump-global-recession-2016-231055

https://www.ft.com/content/3749175a-4c17-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
As Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate economist, has pointed out, US performance remains poor by the standards of its peers in salient respects, notably life expectancy, employment ratios and inequality

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2020, 04:30:15 PM
Well you have a huge (no pun intended) obesity and opioid problem over here. The regular person who takes good care of themself is living just as long if not longer, especially if they live in a wealthier state

https://youtu.be/E3kqKpndTuA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/12/27/life-expectancy-falls-across-country-but-massachusetts-bucks-trend/qnAdeFxEL4tiCAmCCw76FO/story.html%3foutputType=amp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 12, 2020, 04:56:49 PM
Jesus I see Klobuchar needs to get out of this thing quick as well . . . The Democrats couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 04:30:15 PM
Well you have a huge (no pun intended) obesity and opioid problem over here. The regular person who takes good care of themself is living just as long if not longer, especially if they live in a wealthier state

https://youtu.be/E3kqKpndTuA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/12/27/life-expectancy-falls-across-country-but-massachusetts-bucks-trend/qnAdeFxEL4tiCAmCCw76FO/story.html%3foutputType=amp
That is true but life expectancy is falling so the negative seems to be outweighing the positive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2020, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 12, 2020, 04:56:49 PM
Jesus I see Klobuchar needs to get out of this thing quick as well . . . The Democrats couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!!

Why? She's ahead of Biden in delegates and came third, ahead of Warren, in New Hampshire. She's one of the better candidates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2020, 11:45:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 04:30:15 PM
Well you have a huge (no pun intended) obesity and opioid problem over here. The regular person who takes good care of themself is living just as long if not longer, especially if they live in a wealthier state

https://youtu.be/E3kqKpndTuA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/12/27/life-expectancy-falls-across-country-but-massachusetts-bucks-trend/qnAdeFxEL4tiCAmCCw76FO/story.html%3foutputType=amp
That is true but life expectancy is falling so the negative seems to be outweighing the positive.

Like all stats regarding the United States there are wide disparities between different states

Life expectancy is actually increasing in Massachusetts

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/12/27/life-expectancy-falls-across-country-but-massachusetts-bucks-trend/qnAdeFxEL4tiCAmCCw76FO/story.html%3foutputType=amp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 13, 2020, 03:36:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 04:08:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 02:21:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 12:17:39 PM
Amy and Mayor Pete are probably the 2 best candidates for the Democrats

Bernie is a (likeable) wacko

Warren is a fraud and a phony and very unlike able

Joe is toast (Ukraine scandal pretty much finished him off)

Bloomberg would be good for the country but the real progressives won't support him
Bernie would grow the economy.
Bloomberg would trigger the crash to wipe out your pension, Whitey

"The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind". H. L. Mencken

A crash is on the way regardless of who gets in

No one actually knows whether Bernie would be good or bad for the economy.

Remember Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugmans dire warning when Trump got elected......how did that work out?

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/krugman-trump-global-recession-2016-231055

https://www.ft.com/content/3749175a-4c17-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
As Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate economist, has pointed out, US performance remains poor by the standards of its peers in salient respects, notably life expectancy, employment ratios and inequality
one of these years you'll get the recession you are hoping for , be patient seafoid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 13, 2020, 05:03:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 13, 2020, 03:36:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 04:08:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 02:21:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2020, 12:17:39 PM
Amy and Mayor Pete are probably the 2 best candidates for the Democrats

Bernie is a (likeable) wacko

Warren is a fraud and a phony and very unlike able

Joe is toast (Ukraine scandal pretty much finished him off)

Bloomberg would be good for the country but the real progressives won't support him
Bernie would grow the economy.
Bloomberg would trigger the crash to wipe out your pension, Whitey

"The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind". H. L. Mencken

A crash is on the way regardless of who gets in

No one actually knows whether Bernie would be good or bad for the economy.

Remember Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugmans dire warning when Trump got elected......how did that work out?

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/krugman-trump-global-recession-2016-231055

https://www.ft.com/content/3749175a-4c17-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
As Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate economist, has pointed out, US performance remains poor by the standards of its peers in salient respects, notably life expectancy, employment ratios and inequality
one of these years you'll get the recession you are hoping for , be patient seafoid

A lot of people are buying gold,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 13, 2020, 12:04:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2020, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 12, 2020, 04:56:49 PM
Jesus I see Klobuchar needs to get out of this thing quick as well . . . The Democrats couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!!

Why? She's ahead of Biden in delegates and came third, ahead of Warren, in New Hampshire. She's one of the better candidates.

Great clip circulating of "Amnesty Amy" calling for a fence to be built at the border

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/amy-klobuchar-border-wall-fence-trump-immigration-policies-1487117%3famp=1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 13, 2020, 12:08:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 12, 2020, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 12, 2020, 04:56:49 PM
Jesus I see Klobuchar needs to get out of this thing quick as well . . . The Democrats couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!!

Why? She's ahead of Biden in delegates and came third, ahead of Warren, in New Hampshire. She's one of the better candidates.

Think there are numerous stories about how abusive she is towards her staff and although there are a few articles out there they haven't even scratched the surface!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2020, 11:27:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.

That's seriously good odds on Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 03:10:35 AM
Oh yes, Trump still the hot favourite. Will be interesting to see what kind of a ticket emerges from the Dems, it'll have to include Bernie if they're to stand a chance of changing those odds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 21, 2020, 04:09:59 AM
A communist and a republican favorites for the dems and a Democrat pretending to be republican incumbent,funny oul game
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 04:14:59 AM
Communist? Bit harsh. But yes, Bloomberg is a Republican from the days when the GOP tolerated moderates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 05:04:17 AM
Trump has dementia but the GOP need him
The run down to the election is going to be nuts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 05:07:13 AM
Doesn't look like we're going to get the presidency. Best bet might be to try and flip those four senate seats, take back the senate, impeach him again, and this time remove him from office. But even there the odds aren't good.

Dems to take the senate: 9/4
Rethuglicans to keep the senate: 1/6
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 09:23:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 05:07:13 AM
Doesn't look like we're going to get the presidency. Best bet might be to try and flip those four senate seats, take back the senate, impeach him again, and this time remove him from office. But even there the odds aren't good.

Dems to take the senate: 9/4
Rethuglicans to keep the senate: 1/6

Trump ran last time on "the world is fucked".
Now he is saying that everything has been fixed.
And it hasn't.

How will the deplorables feel about this ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2020, 12:01:44 PM
Surely the presidency and Senate go together though?

If the Dems flip enough seats (and Sessions will take back Alabama), then it will be part of a wave which also sees them win the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 21, 2020, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2020, 12:01:44 PM
Surely the presidency and Senate go together though?

If the Dems flip enough seats (and Sessions will take back Alabama), then it will be part of a wave which also sees them win the White House.

What's your opinion of Bloomberg?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2020, 12:17:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2020, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2020, 12:01:44 PM
Surely the presidency and Senate go together though?

If the Dems flip enough seats (and Sessions will take back Alabama), then it will be part of a wave which also sees them win the White House.

What's your opinion of Bloomberg?

If he pulls himself together, he's got my vote.

He needs to own his mayoral policies though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on February 21, 2020, 02:35:08 PM
I see the yanks are doing a Paris Accords mark 2 in Afghanistan.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 05:45:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 09:23:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 05:07:13 AM
Doesn't look like we're going to get the presidency. Best bet might be to try and flip those four senate seats, take back the senate, impeach him again, and this time remove him from office. But even there the odds aren't good.

Dems to take the senate: 9/4
Rethuglicans to keep the senate: 1/6

Trump ran last time on "the world is fucked".
Now he is saying that everything has been fixed.
And it hasn't.

How will the deplorables feel about this ?

The deplorables will believe anything he says no matter how outlandish, and Fox News will just amplify it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 21, 2020, 06:54:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 05:45:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 09:23:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 05:07:13 AM
Doesn't look like we're going to get the presidency. Best bet might be to try and flip those four senate seats, take back the senate, impeach him again, and this time remove him from office. But even there the odds aren't good.

Dems to take the senate: 9/4
Rethuglicans to keep the senate: 1/6

Trump ran last time on "the world is fucked".
Now he is saying that everything has been fixed.
And it hasn't.

How will the deplorables feel about this ?

The deplorables will believe anything he says no matter how outlandish, and Fox News will just amplify it.

Democrats have said they are for (1) open borders (2) free healthcare for illegals (3) free taxpayer funded sex change operations for murderers and rapists (4) abolition of private healthcare (taxpayer funded abortions up to 9 months for all including men (who can't even get pregnant)

I don't think you would have to be too "deplorable" to find these actual policy positions objections
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 21, 2020, 06:59:55 PM
You seem awful obsessed with sex changes whitey? Any reason for that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 21, 2020, 07:08:15 PM
Isolated fringe proposals.

Meanwhile, the incumbent, with the full support of the GOP, has ripped wailing toddlers from their hysterical mothers' arms, has engaged in naked and brazen self-dealing and corruption, has vindictively abused his authority to punish the inhabitants of states that don't support him, has tried to strip away every environmental, consumer and worker protection he can, repeatedly lied about everything and everyone under the sun and has generally conducted himself like a third world despot.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 07:12:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 05:45:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 09:23:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 05:07:13 AM
Doesn't look like we're going to get the presidency. Best bet might be to try and flip those four senate seats, take back the senate, impeach him again, and this time remove him from office. But even there the odds aren't good.

Dems to take the senate: 9/4
Rethuglicans to keep the senate: 1/6

Trump ran last time on "the world is fucked".
Now he is saying that everything has been fixed.
And it hasn't.

How will the deplorables feel about this ?

The deplorables will believe anything he says no matter how outlandish, and Fox News will just amplify it.
Deplorable women are less fond of Trump


And will hos dementia be cured by November?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 21, 2020, 08:11:55 PM
The Democrats are doubling down on the strategy that lost them the last election and gone even further to the left if that's possible, trump voters will probably vote for him again and he wins something similar to last election maybe even a little more . , pandering to left wing looms is not a strategy for winning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 09:36:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 21, 2020, 08:11:55 PM
The Democrats are doubling down on the strategy that lost them the last election and gone even further to the left if that's possible, trump voters will probably vote for him again and he wins something similar to last election maybe even a little more . , pandering to left wing looms is not a strategy for winning.

There's no way the dems can win. The system is rigged against them. 3.5 million more people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump and Trump still became President. If Sanders gets the nomination (assuming the DNC doesn't swindle him out of it) he'll probably get an even bigger majority than Clinton got, but still lose the presidency because the corn farmers of Iowa have been conditioned into thinking that healthcare is just another commercial business like fast food or vacuum cleaner sales, rather than an essential public service as it is in every other developed country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 21, 2020, 10:06:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2020, 09:36:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 21, 2020, 08:11:55 PM
The Democrats are doubling down on the strategy that lost them the last election and gone even further to the left if that's possible, trump voters will probably vote for him again and he wins something similar to last election maybe even a little more . , pandering to left wing looms is not a strategy for winning.

There's no way the dems can win. The system is rigged against them. 3.5 million more people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump and Trump still became President. If Sanders gets the nomination (assuming the DNC doesn't swindle him out of it) he'll probably get an even bigger majority than Clinton got, but still lose the presidency because the corn farmers of Iowa have been conditioned into thinking that healthcare is just another commercial business like fast food or vacuum cleaner sales, rather than an essential public service as it is in every other developed country.
why doesn't Bernie or any Democrat say we are going to give free health care to poor Amercian citizens and poor legal immigrants ? How would that be controversial?  but it is for far left section of party who think we should be paying for illegals healthcare. Wtf ,
The governor of California is saying doctors should be prescribing housing like they do medications, what planet is he on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:17 AM
Quotewhy doesn't Bernie or any Democrat say we are going to give free health care to poor Amercian citizens and poor legal immigrants ?

That's precisely what Bernie has been saying all along.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 01:10:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:17 AM
Quotewhy doesn't Bernie or any Democrat say we are going to give free health care to poor Amercian citizens and poor legal immigrants ?

That's precisely what Bernie has been saying all along.
yes but he also says free healthcare for people who are illegally living in country not the same , also just breaking Russians are trying to help Bernie win nomination  Vladimir must be laughing his bollox off the way he is f&cking with everyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:50:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 01:10:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:17 AM
Quotewhy doesn't Bernie or any Democrat say we are going to give free health care to poor Amercian citizens and poor legal immigrants ?

That's precisely what Bernie has been saying all along.
yes but he also says free healthcare for people who are illegally living in country not the same , also just breaking Russians are trying to help Bernie win nomination  Vladimir must be laughing his bollox off the way he is f&cking with everyone.

So if a house is burning down and the occupants are undocumented, should the fire department not be obligated to put the fire out?

If a woman is being assaulted and she happens to be undocumented, should the police not intervene to protect her?

Where does this perverse idea come from that vital services should be withheld from people based on their immigration status?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:53:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives

Jesus wept. So your roofer will happily keep on paying extortionate health insurance premiums to the legalized extortion racket known as "private health insurance" as long as undocumented people get to die of cancer for lack of money?

And what's all this about graduates never having worked?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2020, 05:44:48 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 21, 2020, 08:11:55 PM
The Democrats are doubling down on the strategy that lost them the last election and gone even further to the left if that's possible, trump voters will probably vote for him again and he wins something similar to last election maybe even a little more . , pandering to left wing looms is not a strategy for winning.

Clinton was business as usual.
Are women in Ohio going to vote for Trump? The GOP vote there fell in the 2018 mid terms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:49:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:50:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 01:10:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:17 AM
Quotewhy doesn't Bernie or any Democrat say we are going to give free health care to poor Amercian citizens and poor legal immigrants ?

That's precisely what Bernie has been saying all along.
yes but he also says free healthcare for people who are illegally living in country not the same , also just breaking Russians are trying to help Bernie win nomination  Vladimir must be laughing his bollox off the way he is f&cking with everyone.

So if a house is burning down and the occupants are undocumented, should the fire department not be obligated to put the fire out?

If a woman is being assaulted and she happens to be undocumented, should the police not intervene to protect her?

Where does this perverse idea come from that vital services should be withheld from people based on their immigration status?
stupid arguments , everybody gets vital services and hospital treatment if necessary the bottom line is politicians should not be promising healthcare to people who are here illegally and expect the American taxpayer to foot the bill for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2020, 05:51:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives


His wife will. Especially in the swing states.
Why does he have to drive 2 hours?
How much does he earn compared to 1975? Adjusted for inflation.
Will he be amenable to culture wars indefinitely?
And would he support soaking the rich?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2020, 08:48:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:53:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives

Jesus wept. So your roofer will happily keep on paying extortionate health insurance premiums to the legalized extortion racket known as "private health insurance" as long as undocumented people get to die of cancer for lack of money?

And what's all this about graduates never having worked?

And your response is exactly why he'll be voting for Trump again this year

Thank you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2020, 08:51:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2020, 05:51:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives


His wife will. Especially in the swing states.
Why does he have to drive 2 hours?
How much does he earn compared to 1975? Adjusted for inflation.
Will he be amenable to culture wars indefinitely?
And would he support soaking the rich?


Great....you're all set then
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2020, 11:29:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives

So the average student who accumulates tuition debt doesn't work part time jobs to make ends meet?

This hypothetical roofing guy is definitely NOT going to have kids or grandkids who'll benefit from such a programme?

I'm well educated, and I worked fast food, I washed dishes, I sold xmas trees, I did menial clerical work, I baled hay, I landscaped, I did construction work to pay my way. Luckily, in Ireland, they didn't have those ridiculous, outlandish tuition fees, or I would have been right fucked.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2020, 11:30:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 08:48:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:53:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives

Jesus wept. So your roofer will happily keep on paying extortionate health insurance premiums to the legalized extortion racket known as "private health insurance" as long as undocumented people get to die of cancer for lack of money?

And what's all this about graduates never having worked?

And your response is exactly why he'll be voting for Trump again this year

Thank you

Your response doesn't make any sense whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:49:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:50:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 01:10:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:17 AM
Quotewhy doesn't Bernie or any Democrat say we are going to give free health care to poor Amercian citizens and poor legal immigrants ?

That's precisely what Bernie has been saying all along.
yes but he also says free healthcare for people who are illegally living in country not the same , also just breaking Russians are trying to help Bernie win nomination  Vladimir must be laughing his bollox off the way he is f&cking with everyone.

So if a house is burning down and the occupants are undocumented, should the fire department not be obligated to put the fire out?

If a woman is being assaulted and she happens to be undocumented, should the police not intervene to protect her?

Where does this perverse idea come from that vital services should be withheld from people based on their immigration status?
stupid arguments , everybody gets vital services and hospital treatment if necessary the bottom line is politicians should not be promising healthcare to people who are here illegally and expect the American taxpayer to foot the bill for it.

The American taxpayer is already paying for the emergency room services, which generally far exceed any preventative or GP-level care which would prevent those ER visits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2020, 11:30:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 08:48:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:53:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives

Jesus wept. So your roofer will happily keep on paying extortionate health insurance premiums to the legalized extortion racket known as "private health insurance" as long as undocumented people get to die of cancer for lack of money?

And what's all this about graduates never having worked?

And your response is exactly why he'll be voting for Trump again this year

Thank you

Your response doesn't make any sense whitey.

You guys just don't seem to accept that the Democrats have lost their traditional white working class vote.. He essentially called the guy stupid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2020, 02:57:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 08:51:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2020, 05:51:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives


His wife will. Especially in the swing states.
Why does he have to drive 2 hours?
How much does he earn compared to 1975? Adjusted for inflation.
Will he be amenable to culture wars indefinitely?
And would he support soaking the rich?


Great....you're all set then
What did Trump do for blue collar voters since 2016, Whitey.?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2020, 11:30:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 08:48:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:53:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives

Jesus wept. So your roofer will happily keep on paying extortionate health insurance premiums to the legalized extortion racket known as "private health insurance" as long as undocumented people get to die of cancer for lack of money?

And what's all this about graduates never having worked?

And your response is exactly why he'll be voting for Trump again this year

Thank you

Your response doesn't make any sense whitey.

You guys just don't seem to accept that the Democrats have lost their traditional white working class vote.. He essentially called the guy stupid

So what?

People like him call people like me stupid.

Is voting completely about sticking it to the other guy?

Is voting for Trump all about "make liberals cry again!"?

Is that all that's in it for this guy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2020, 03:40:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2020, 11:30:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 08:48:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:53:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives

Jesus wept. So your roofer will happily keep on paying extortionate health insurance premiums to the legalized extortion racket known as "private health insurance" as long as undocumented people get to die of cancer for lack of money?

And what's all this about graduates never having worked?

And your response is exactly why he'll be voting for Trump again this year

Thank you

Your response doesn't make any sense whitey.

You guys just don't seem to accept that the Democrats have lost their traditional white working class vote.. He essentially called the guy stupid

So what?

People like him call people like me stupid.

Is voting completely about sticking it to the other guy?

Is voting for Trump all about "make liberals cry again!"?

Is that all that's in it for this guy?

Did you read the article?

Do you understand why he voted for Trump in 2016 and why he will vote for him again in 2020? (Him being a lifelong Democrat who voted for both Clinton and Obama)

Do you understand why he probably wouldn't want his tax dollars to pay for the healthcare of illegals or to forgive the student debts of people who got useless majors and now can't get jobs..

If your answer is no to either of my questions I will feel very good about Trumps chances of re election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:03:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:49:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:50:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 01:10:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:17 AM
Quotewhy doesn't Bernie or any Democrat say we are going to give free health care to poor Amercian citizens and poor legal immigrants ?

That's precisely what Bernie has been saying all along.
yes but he also says free healthcare for people who are illegally living in country not the same , also just breaking Russians are trying to help Bernie win nomination  Vladimir must be laughing his bollox off the way he is f&cking with everyone.

So if a house is burning down and the occupants are undocumented, should the fire department not be obligated to put the fire out?

If a woman is being assaulted and she happens to be undocumented, should the police not intervene to protect her?

Where does this perverse idea come from that vital services should be withheld from people based on their immigration status?
stupid arguments , everybody gets vital services and hospital treatment if necessary the bottom line is politicians should not be promising healthcare to people who are here illegally and expect the American taxpayer to foot the bill for it.

Do you live on some planet where treatment for everything in the ER is cheaper? Or where you can get chemotherapy in the ER?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2020, 05:45:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2020, 11:30:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 08:48:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:53:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives

Jesus wept. So your roofer will happily keep on paying extortionate health insurance premiums to the legalized extortion racket known as "private health insurance" as long as undocumented people get to die of cancer for lack of money?

And what's all this about graduates never having worked?

And your response is exactly why he'll be voting for Trump again this year

Thank you

Your response doesn't make any sense whitey.

You guys just don't seem to accept that the Democrats have lost their traditional white working class vote.. He essentially called the guy stupid
Identity politics split the working class vote post 1980 but it is not a law of nature. Far left LOLZ issues such as cheaper healthcare are attractive to law and order types.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:03:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:49:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:50:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 01:10:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:17 AM
Quotewhy doesn't Bernie or any Democrat say we are going to give free health care to poor Amercian citizens and poor legal immigrants ?

That's precisely what Bernie has been saying all along.
yes but he also says free healthcare for people who are illegally living in country not the same , also just breaking Russians are trying to help Bernie win nomination  Vladimir must be laughing his bollox off the way he is f&cking with everyone.

So if a house is burning down and the occupants are undocumented, should the fire department not be obligated to put the fire out?

If a woman is being assaulted and she happens to be undocumented, should the police not intervene to protect her?

Where does this perverse idea come from that vital services should be withheld from people based on their immigration status?
stupid arguments , everybody gets vital services and hospital treatment if necessary the bottom line is politicians should not be promising healthcare to people who are here illegally and expect the American taxpayer to foot the bill for it.

Do you live on some planet where treatment for everything in the ER is cheaper? Or where you can get chemotherapy in the ER?
most county hospitals provide all types of care to anyone who can't afford it , it might take 3 months to get an appointment but that's government run healthcare in most countries , in Ireland I would imagine anyone who can afford to go private does if they can . Democrats talk about giving shite healthcare to people who can already get said shite healthcare it's disingenuous and is all about votes .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:59:06 PM


most county hospitals provide all types of care to anyone who can't afford it , it might take 3 months to get an appointment but that's government run healthcare in most countries , in Ireland I would imagine anyone who can afford to go private does if they can . Democrats talk about giving shite healthcare to people who can already get said shite healthcare it's disingenuous and is all about votes .

So healthcare in the USA is fine then? Why are so many people going bankrupt when they get sick when they could just walk into the ER and get all this free stuff?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2020, 06:59:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:59:06 PM


most county hospitals provide all types of care to anyone who can't afford it , it might take 3 months to get an appointment but that's government run healthcare in most countries , in Ireland I would imagine anyone who can afford to go private does if they can . Democrats talk about giving shite healthcare to people who can already get said shite healthcare it's disingenuous and is all about votes .

So healthcare in the USA is fine then? Why are so many people going bankrupt when they get sick when they could just walk into the ER and get all this free stuff?

EMERGENCY medical care is available to all......always has been, regardless of legal status

Democrats are now proposing to take it to a whole new level by providing "COVERAGE" to all under their new plan. Coverage for all would cover everything.

You think we have problems now with the surge in numbers crossing illegally........wait til this gets passed

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/05/border-arrests-increase-may-1509572
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 07:17:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:59:06 PM


most county hospitals provide all types of care to anyone who can't afford it , it might take 3 months to get an appointment but that's government run healthcare in most countries , in Ireland I would imagine anyone who can afford to go private does if they can . Democrats talk about giving shite healthcare to people who can already get said shite healthcare it's disingenuous and is all about votes .

So healthcare in the USA is fine then? Why are so many people going bankrupt when they get sick when they could just walk into the ER and get all this free stuff?
[/quote do undocumented people go bankrupt? No because they have no ssn so can't be held accountable, the poor citizens again get the whammy , bottom line my point is take care of your own citizens first however u do it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on February 22, 2020, 07:26:05 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance-medical-bankruptcy-debt

Over 1/2 a million people a year in the US go bankrupt due to medical costs. No one in the UK, Ireland, Canada .. go bankrupt because of medical Bill's. Over 20% of people in US reported struggling to pay health insurance. How could it not be a major election issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 07:33:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 06:59:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:59:06 PM


most county hospitals provide all types of care to anyone who can't afford it , it might take 3 months to get an appointment but that's government run healthcare in most countries , in Ireland I would imagine anyone who can afford to go private does if they can . Democrats talk about giving shite healthcare to people who can already get said shite healthcare it's disingenuous and is all about votes .

So healthcare in the USA is fine then? Why are so many people going bankrupt when they get sick when they could just walk into the ER and get all this free stuff?

EMERGENCY medical care is available to all......always has been, regardless of legal status

Can you get chemo in the ER? How about a hip replacement?

Quote

Democrats are now proposing to take it to a whole new level by providing "COVERAGE" to all under their new plan. Coverage for all would cover everything.

You think we have problems now with the surge in numbers crossing illegally........wait til this gets passed

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/05/border-arrests-increase-may-1509572

Let's make life as miserable as possible then. Gotta deter those migrants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 07:17:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:59:06 PM


most county hospitals provide all types of care to anyone who can't afford it , it might take 3 months to get an appointment but that's government run healthcare in most countries , in Ireland I would imagine anyone who can afford to go private does if they can . Democrats talk about giving shite healthcare to people who can already get said shite healthcare it's disingenuous and is all about votes .

So healthcare in the USA is fine then? Why are so many people going bankrupt when they get sick when they could just walk into the ER and get all this free stuff?
do undocumented people go bankrupt? No because they have no ssn so can't be held accountable, the poor citizens again get the whammy , bottom line my point is take care of your own citizens first however u do it .

Put those goalposts back where you got them. I didn't ask about undocumented people (or "illegals" as you call them). Why are so many people going bankrupt from medical bills (or dying for lack of coverage) if all their needs can be met in the ER? Are you seriously trying to argue that it's cheaper to provide these essential services in the ER?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 08:01:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 07:17:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:59:06 PM


most county hospitals provide all types of care to anyone who can't afford it , it might take 3 months to get an appointment but that's government run healthcare in most countries , in Ireland I would imagine anyone who can afford to go private does if they can . Democrats talk about giving shite healthcare to people who can already get said shite healthcare it's disingenuous and is all about votes .

So healthcare in the USA is fine then? Why are so many people going bankrupt when they get sick when they could just walk into the ER and get all this free stuff?
do undocumented people go bankrupt? No because they have no ssn so can't be held accountable, the poor citizens again get the whammy , bottom line my point is take care of your own citizens first however u do it .

Put those goalposts back where you got them. I didn't ask about undocumented people (or "illegals" as you call them). Why are so many people going bankrupt from medical bills (or dying for lack of coverage) if all their needs can be met in the ER? Are you seriously trying to argue that it's cheaper to provide these essential services in the ER?
County hospitals work like a private one u make appointments to see a doctor who decides what happens next u don't go to the er for shoulder pain knee pain etc which is how bigger problems are mostly discovered, u don't go to the er and say I have cancer ffs , I never said the Er care took care of all ills but it is available for emergencies hence the name .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2020, 08:07:02 PM
Healthcare and prisons are 25% of US GDP or 1 in 4 dollars spent.

This is approx 10% of GDP higher than OECD averages and it all goes to the beloved 1% of Whitey and Gmac.

Stein was an official in Nixon's admin. Stein's law says that if something cannot go on forever it will stop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 08:25:20 PM
Why don't apple ,Facebook , google, amazon all owned and run by progressives put a fund together for healthcare with some of the tax that they don't pay . Wouldn't that be something we all agree on .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2020, 09:16:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 03:40:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2020, 11:30:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 08:48:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 04:53:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
http://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/


A guy who gets up at 3:00 am to drive two hours to a roofing job, while his wife is working the overnight shift will never vote for a candidate who will provide healthcare to illegals and who's tax dollars will be used to abolish the student debts of people who've never grafted a day in their lives

Jesus wept. So your roofer will happily keep on paying extortionate health insurance premiums to the legalized extortion racket known as "private health insurance" as long as undocumented people get to die of cancer for lack of money?

And what's all this about graduates never having worked?

And your response is exactly why he'll be voting for Trump again this year

Thank you

Your response doesn't make any sense whitey.

You guys just don't seem to accept that the Democrats have lost their traditional white working class vote.. He essentially called the guy stupid

So what?

People like him call people like me stupid.

Is voting completely about sticking it to the other guy?

Is voting for Trump all about "make liberals cry again!"?

Is that all that's in it for this guy?

Did you read the article?

Do you understand why he voted for Trump in 2016 and why he will vote for him again in 2020? (Him being a lifelong Democrat who voted for both Clinton and Obama)

Do you understand why he probably wouldn't want his tax dollars to pay for the healthcare of illegals or to forgive the student debts of people who got useless majors and now can't get jobs..

If your answer is no to either of my questions I will feel very good about Trumps chances of re election

Yes I read it.

He states why he voted for Trump.

Some horseshit about his plain language and sticking up for America, whatever that means, along with a dubious connection to the construction of a couple of hospitals in his town (refuted by others in the same article).

And we all have shit we don't want our tax dollars to pay for.

Nothing this guy has said in any way justifies supporting a man like Trump.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 07:33:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 06:59:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2020, 05:59:06 PM


most county hospitals provide all types of care to anyone who can't afford it , it might take 3 months to get an appointment but that's government run healthcare in most countries , in Ireland I would imagine anyone who can afford to go private does if they can . Democrats talk about giving shite healthcare to people who can already get said shite healthcare it's disingenuous and is all about votes .

So healthcare in the USA is fine then? Why are so many people going bankrupt when they get sick when they could just walk into the ER and get all this free stuff?

EMERGENCY medical care is available to all......always has been, regardless of legal status

Can you get chemo in the ER? How about a hip replacement?

Quote

Democrats are now proposing to take it to a whole new level by providing "COVERAGE" to all under their new plan. Coverage for all would cover everything.

You think we have problems now with the surge in numbers crossing illegally........wait til this gets passed

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/05/border-arrests-increase-may-1509572

Let's make life as miserable as possible then. Gotta deter those migrants.

Let's figure out how to help the ones who are already here before enticing millions more in
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2020, 04:33:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
Let's figure out how to help the ones who are already here before enticing millions more in

Yes, quite.

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/75/b2/8e/75b28eebfaefe127623e17164d0f94c7--immigration-reform-immigration-meme.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2B7suNP2jIWQDNnKUa5DidrNWlhqVzJBDeOmpUcldFxar6pF8jagzOKdE6gXHUQPSFcpGTxW0sR7bucSfqT4QUs_Jd0wAh-V4peIuYpFDrRHr1gRiffNeCuDc7rgRrCarsWe6_xy6JzdQUnW9KmzXRwAJDqRtnaA2G8)

(https://media.voltron.voanews.com/Drupal/01live-166/styles/sourced_410px_wide/s3/2019-04/1B112FAC-F548-40DB-ACA2-0371072495D5.jpg?itok=Rnbt-SkU)

(https://oldwestdailyreader.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/OWDR-Indian-Immigration-Poster.jpg)

(https://whyy.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Lenape-768x576.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2020, 05:38:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
Let's figure out how to help the ones who are already here before enticing millions more in

On a completely unrelated note, what country were you born in?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2020, 07:09:11 AM
Immigration is part of the economic system. Demand for houses and schools increases economic growth . Unfortunately immigration puts pressure on infrasructure and eventually GOP roofers have to drive 2 hours to get to the job. Nothing lasts forever.

Mainstream Dems still think immigration is a humanitarian issue. Most of them work for the plutocrats.

In the UK the debate is the same.. Stop immigration . Don't change anything else. But the deplorables are pissed off about everything.

The question is for how long the plutocrats can plámás them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2020, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2020, 07:09:11 AM
Immigration is part of the economic system. Demand for houses and schools increases economic growth . Unfortunately immigration puts pressure on infrasructure and eventually GOP roofers have to drive 2 hours to get to the job. Nothing lasts forever.

Mainstream Dems still think immigration is a humanitarian issue. Most of them work for the plutocrats.

In the UK the debate is the same.. Stop immigration . Don't change anything else. But the deplorables are pissed off about everything.

The question is for how long the plutocrats can plámás them.

Re-read the article

The guy is a lifelong Democrat and Union member who had voted for both Clinton and Obama

There is no room for him or his opinions in today's Democratic Party. You either agree with 100% of their agenda or you are a racist and an idiot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 23, 2020, 11:30:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 07:59:56 AM
You either agree with 100% of their agenda or you are a racist and an idiot

But if you are a racist and an idiot, you are a racist and an idiot.

But I suppose - when the media in the States is so under the editorial control of their owners and thus only looking out for the interests of the 0.001%, then unfortunately folks cannot get distance and perspective to see they are getting taken for a ride.

[which then makes many not idiots, but unfortunate victims of circumstance]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2020, 07:09:11 AM
Immigration is part of the economic system. Demand for houses and schools increases economic growth . Unfortunately immigration puts pressure on infrasructure and eventually GOP roofers have to drive 2 hours to get to the job. Nothing lasts forever.

Mainstream Dems still think immigration is a humanitarian issue. Most of them work for the plutocrats.

In the UK the debate is the same.. Stop immigration . Don't change anything else. But the deplorables are pissed off about everything.

The question is for how long the plutocrats can plámás them.

Re-read the article

The guy is a lifelong Democrat and Union member who had voted for both Clinton and Obama

There is no room for him or his opinions in today's Democratic Party. You either agree with 100% of their agenda or you are a racist and an idiot

Yet the Democratic primary is all over the place in US terms of outlooks when it comes to economics and healthcare.

And on the other side of the aisle, an active and thorough purge of dissenters is still underway in the GOP. It's get on board the Trump right or wrong train, whether it's anti-immigrant, anti-muslim, anti- environment, anti-blue state, pro-conspiracy theory, pro- or indulgent-of-Trump personal corruption and self-enrichment.

Can't criticize or comment on his conduct, or you might alienate Trump, get a mean tweet or shoutout at one of his Dear Leader rallies, and lose the support of what is now HIS base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2020, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.

Lol....do you have any idea how condescending that statement is

It's these crazy policy positions that don't stand up to much scrutiny.

https://youtu.be/JtPQQjj01kM

Moving onto education.....do you think this guy should get his money back ?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-father-asks-elizabeth-warren-if-hes-going-to-get-his-money-back-after-paying-for-daughters-education
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2020, 01:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.

Don't take my word for it

https://youtu.be/XXIuzVnD0uA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2020, 01:40:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.

Lol....do you have any idea how condescending that statement is

It's these crazy policy positions that don't stand up to much scrutiny.

https://youtu.be/JtPQQjj01kM

Moving onto education.....do you think this guy should get his money back ?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-father-asks-elizabeth-warren-if-hes-going-to-get-his-money-back-after-paying-for-daughters-education

Get over the condescension shite. Seriously.

We're not talking to him. We're talking about what he said in that article.

Are you "condescending" towards some far left college kid when you repeatedly zero in on some miniscule, irrelevant, pie-in-the-sky proposal like free sex changes for prisoners (something which has about zero chance of ever happening) as a stick to beat the Democrats with?

As for your links, I agree whole-heartedly with Maher. I'm rooting for Bloomburg or maybe Klobuchar, even though I disagree with them on certain things. I'll obviously vote for Bernie if he's the nominee, but IMO he has zero chance of winning a general election, just like last time. I've pointed that out repeatedly on this thread, where there's been plenty of chat that Bernie was screwed out of a possible presidency by the DNC (never forget that leaked question about lead in the water in Flint! ::)), that the right wing never even began their assault on him last time. By the time they're finished, he'll be the second coming of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Castro and Chairman Mao. Probably Hitler too given his (in US terms) attitudes towards Palestine.

And your ridiculing of Warren's abolish-student-debt solution ignores the fact that there is a massive real problem there to be addressed. Its not all archaeology or film school majors who can only get work as data entry clerks who are in trouble. The US college system is fucked up and punitively priced, in an age where every half-decent job demands at least a bachelor degree. Betsy DeVos and Trump have done zero to help in this regard. Mock Warren and the Dems all you want, but at least they're discussing it and trying to come up with solutions. And whatever solution anyone comes up with to offer relief to any problem is going to alienate some who managed to overcome the challenges. That's life. Whenever they inevitably raise the age for retirement, there's going to be a pissed-off cohort who just miss out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2020, 01:45:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 01:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.

Don't take my word for it

https://youtu.be/XXIuzVnD0uA

And...?

We all know how easy it is for Trump and the GOP to demagogue and fear monger on immigrants getting healthcare and the like, to tell people to blame muslims and illegals for all their problems.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2020, 01:50:58 PM
So what do you tell the dad who worked extra shifts, drove old cars and didn't take vacations in order to  pay for his daughters college?

Why shouldn't he get his money back?

This debt forgiveness isn't a fringe position (like the sex change operations)-this a major policy position that will cost trillions of dollars.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2020, 02:02:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 01:50:58 PM
So what do you tell the dad who worked extra shifts, drove old cars and didn't take vacations in order to  pay for his daughters college?

Why shouldn't he get his money back?

This debt forgiveness isn't a fringe position (like the sex change operations)-this a major policy position that will cost trillions of dollars.

I honestly don't know what the solution is.

But you have to start somewhere.

100% debt forgiveness has no chance of ever becoming law anyway, IMO. I'd probably go back to the idea of paying a certain percentage of your income for 15-20 years or whatever, with the government covering the rest. Omit the art or Greek and Roman history degrees from the programme if you wish. Regardless of what they do, SOME people are going to be pissed off.

What do YOU think should be done?

(I drive a ten year old car BTW, and myself and my wife are STILL paying off her student loans, 15 years after she finished!).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2020, 03:28:04 PM
Interesting question

First of all I would haul all these colleges before a committee to detail exactly why their tuition costs what it does. (It shouldn't cost $72 K a year to go to Boston University)

Then I would tap their endowments to pay down 20% of the O/S debt

Next I would mandate the debt holders (institutions) to take a 20% haircut....this is unsecured debt. They knew what they were buying

I would then set up a system whereby the indebted student could work off the debt by providing community service-providing daycare to low income people, helping out in inner city schools, providing health and nutrition education to unhealthy people

I would cap the amount of debt a student can take on board-benchmark it to their earning potential

I would impose a one time tax on the 0.01%

That would only take care of what's outstanding today......draconian steps would need to be put in place to prevent this from EVER happening again

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2020, 03:54:27 PM
Those sound very reasonable proposals to me whitey.

Maybe someone like Bloomberg would be the man to implement something along those kind of lines. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2020, 06:58:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 02:02:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 01:50:58 PM
So what do you tell the dad who worked extra shifts, drove old cars and didn't take vacations in order to  pay for his daughters college?

Why shouldn't he get his money back?

This debt forgiveness isn't a fringe position (like the sex change operations)-this a major policy position that will cost trillions of dollars.

I honestly don't know what the solution is.

But you have to start somewhere.

100% debt forgiveness has no chance of ever becoming law anyway, IMO. I'd probably go back to the idea of paying a certain percentage of your income for 15-20 years or whatever, with the government covering the rest. Omit the art or Greek and Roman history degrees from the programme if you wish. Regardless of what they do, SOME people are going to be pissed off.

What do YOU think should be done?

(I drive a ten year old car BTW, and myself and my wife are STILL paying off her student loans, 15 years after she finished!).

Debt can be reduced to nothing with inflation.
There was a big debt overhang in 1945 that was reduced consistently until 1960
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2020, 07:20:03 PM
Detroit recently ran out of money.

Kelvyn Orr was charged with finding a solution.
He offered debtholders 20% on the dollar. I think they ended up with 30%.
Most debt is owned by the 1%
Most debt now will not be repaid in full. They tore the
arse out of it. The Fed did too.

https://youtu.be/SYs2HHYqmxw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 24, 2020, 06:43:03 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

I'm just happy they've stopped calling him Mayor Pete

I wouldn't write off a Democratic candidate in a big hurry tho, I think they have a very good chance.

Also Bloomberg has no interest in the Democratic party whatsoever, only himself. In fact I could actually see him running as an independent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:23:46 AM
Problem for Democrats is that SC is an open primary, meaning Independents (ie Republicans) can pull a ballot for the Democratic primary and vote for Bernie (because they see him as beatable)

Also an open primary in Massachusetts.....There is a right wing radio host here in Boston who is a huge Trump supporter. Sometime this week, he's going to let his (huge) listenership know whether or not they should pull a Democratic ballot

A buddy of mine did exactly that and voted for Bernie in NH while wearing his MAGA hat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 24, 2020, 12:15:20 PM
What's the bet that even if Bernie does well in the States on super Tuesday, the Democrats will shaft Bernie like they did last time and pick someone more Mainstream like Mayor Quimby. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 24, 2020, 12:15:20 PM
What's the bet that even if Bernie does well in the States on super Tuesday, the Democrats will shaft Bernie like they did last time and pick someone more Mainstream like Mayor Quimby.

Superdelegates are not voting on the first ballot this year unless someone has already won sufficient pledged delegates and is thus assured of the win.

And reportedly Bernie is getting some Russian help, whether wanted or not. One would assume Putin would like him to be the Dem nominee to assure Trump of the win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 01:11:21 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 24, 2020, 12:15:20 PM
What's the bet that even if Bernie does well in the States on super Tuesday, the Democrats will shaft Bernie like they did last time and pick someone more Mainstream like Mayor Quimby.

They'll try, but it won't end well for them

If they try and deny him, even though he will undoubtedly win the "popular vote" in the primaries, it will also kill their argument to abolish the Electoral College

Just after casting my own ballot at town hall-early voting started today at 8:00 am
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2020, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 01:11:21 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 24, 2020, 12:15:20 PM
What's the bet that even if Bernie does well in the States on super Tuesday, the Democrats will shaft Bernie like they did last time and pick someone more Mainstream like Mayor Quimby.

They'll try, but it won't end well for them

If they try and deny him, even though he will undoubtedly win the "popular vote" in the primaries, it will also kill their argument to abolish the Electoral College

Just after casting my own ballot at town hall-early voting started today at 8:00 am

How so?

General election, everyone is voting on the same day with the same information.

The primaries are an evolving process, each dependent to some degree on the ones that have already taken place, news that comes out at various points in the timeline, policies that change or are clarified, and voting blocks that consolidate as candidates drop out.

And how will "they try" to deny him the nomination?

They've already omitted the superdelegates from the first ballot. Its up to Bernie and his supporters to shore up enough of them in case the 16% they make up could be decisive.

Does Bernie have less of a chance of securing them than Bloomberg or Butigeg?

Biden would be the obvious choice for a superdelegate focused on general election electability, but he has run a disaster of a campaign and would be eaten alive by Trump. Already has, I guess, with his son's issues in the Ukraine.

Who'd you vote for BTW? :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 02:02:30 PM
If Bernie has the most (popular) votes and the most delegates going into the convention any attempt to deny him the nomination will be met with all out revolt by the Bernie Bro's.....did you not see what they said on the O Keefe video? "Milwaukee will burn"

I rolled the dice and pulled a Democratic ballot and voted for Bernie. (I think he's the most beatable, but it could also backfire on me)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2020, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 02:02:30 PM
If Bernie has the most (popular) votes and the most delegates going into the convention any attempt to deny him the nomination will be met with all out revolt by the Bernie Bro's.....did you not see what they said on the O Keefe video? "Milwaukee will burn"

I rolled the dice and pulled a Democratic ballot and voted for Bernie. (I think he's the most beatable, but it could also backfire on me)

But if Bernie hasn't met the quota (i.e. half of the pledged delegates plus one) on the first ballot, then it proceeds to the horse trading and winning of majority of ALL delegates for the subsequent ones.
The Bernie bros can scream and even riot (and face the full force of the law) all they want, but the rules are set.
Now when it comes down to it, if Bernie is close, I'd imagine he'll do a deal with Klobuchar or Butigeg or the like for some kind of unity ticket (it ain't going to be a Bernie/Warren ticket!).
That aside, if they want to do what Trump threatened and have Bernie run as an independent if he's not nominated, they're free to do that and absolutely guarantee Trump's reelection.

On O'Keefe, I did not know he had a video. Don't really care either. The man hasn't an ounce of credibility.

On your vote choice, you're now down with Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
Bernies supporters are already claiming on Twitter that they are going to win the popular vote, so strap yourself in.

Regarding Trump....I'm not "down" with him, but based on the fake dossier, 17  fisa "errors" and the Democrats despicable behavior during the Kavanaugh hearing I now actually hate them more than I hate Trump.  If the whole place is going to burn down ( no pun intended) I'd prefer it burn down with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2020, 03:50:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
Bernies supporters are already claiming on Twitter that they are going to win the popular vote, so strap yourself in.

Regarding Trump....I'm not "down" with him, but based on the fake dossier, 17  fisa "errors" and the Democrats despicable behavior during the Kavanaugh hearing I now actually hate them more than I hate Trump.  If the whole place is going to burn down ( no pun intended) I'd prefer it burn down with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court

You have the conservative majority on the Supreme Court (a stolen one). How that is going to make society or your or anyone else's life better, I have no idea.

And your perceived Democratic scandals have been more than topped by Trump and his minions at this point.

You could have voted for Bloomberg, not Bernie.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 03:52:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
Bernies supporters are already claiming on Twitter that they are going to win the popular vote, so strap yourself in.

Regarding Trump....I'm not "down" with him, but based on the fake dossier, 17  fisa "errors" and the Democrats despicable behavior during the Kavanaugh hearing I now actually hate them more than I hate Trump.  If the whole place is going to burn down ( no pun intended) I'd prefer it burn down with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court

There you have it. Modern conservative thinking. Scorched Earth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
I remember when some Democrats were happy that Donald "ha can't possibly beat Hillary" Trump took the GOP nomination.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
I remember when some Democrats were happy that Donald "ha can't possibly beat Hillary" Trump took the GOP nomination.

Believe me, I am under no illusions about Bernies viability as a candidate. It was a calculated wager I made. If Bernie did win though, there's an increased chance the Democrats will loose the house and not a chance they'll win the Senate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2020, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
I remember when some Democrats were happy that Donald "ha can't possibly beat Hillary" Trump took the GOP nomination.

Believe me, I am under no illusions about Bernies viability as a candidate. It was a calculated wager I made. If Bernie did win though, there's an increased chance the Democrats will loose the house and not a chance they'll win the Senate

And an unresisted, unconstrained Trump and the party now in thrall to him is better for all of us because...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:37:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2020, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
I remember when some Democrats were happy that Donald "ha can't possibly beat Hillary" Trump took the GOP nomination.

Believe me, I am under no illusions about Bernies viability as a candidate. It was a calculated wager I made. If Bernie did win though, there's an increased chance the Democrats will loose the house and not a chance they'll win the Senate

And an unresisted, unconstrained Trump and the party now in thrall to him is better for all of us because...?

I don't want my private health insurance abolished

I don't want open borders

(BTW-I am completely in favor of providing legal status to everyone who is currently undocumented. Let's get them taken care of before we invite more people in)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2020, 04:42:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:37:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2020, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
I remember when some Democrats were happy that Donald "ha can't possibly beat Hillary" Trump took the GOP nomination.

Believe me, I am under no illusions about Bernies viability as a candidate. It was a calculated wager I made. If Bernie did win though, there's an increased chance the Democrats will loose the house and not a chance they'll win the Senate

And an unresisted, unconstrained Trump and the party now in thrall to him is better for all of us because...?

I don't want my private health insurance abolished

I don't want open borders

(BTW-I am completely in favor of providing legal status to everyone who is currently undocumented. Let's get them taken care of before we invite more people in)

Neither is coming though. There'd be a Democratic revolt in Congress against abolishing private health insurance, never mind Republicans. "Open borders", whatever that means, would be similar.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 04:51:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:37:12 PM


I don't want my private health insurance abolished

Giving more money to private health insurance racketeers companies is better than giving less money to the government because, how exactly...?

Quote
I don't want open borders

(BTW-I am completely in favor of providing legal status to everyone who is currently undocumented. Let's get them taken care of before we invite more people in)

How did you get into the country? Aren't you a migrant?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 05:03:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 04:51:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:37:12 PM


I don't want my private health insurance abolished

Giving more money to private health insurance racketeers companies is better than giving less money to the government because, how exactly...?

Quote
I don't want open borders

(BTW-I am completely in favor of providing legal status to everyone who is currently undocumented. Let's get them taken care of before we invite more people in)

How did you get into the country? Aren't you a migrant?

Yes-I was lucky enough to come LEGALLY on a Green Card
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2020, 03:50:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
Bernies supporters are already claiming on Twitter that they are going to win the popular vote, so strap yourself in.

Regarding Trump....I'm not "down" with him, but based on the fake dossier, 17  fisa "errors" and the Democrats despicable behavior during the Kavanaugh hearing I now actually hate them more than I hate Trump.  If the whole place is going to burn down ( no pun intended) I'd prefer it burn down with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court

You have the conservative majority on the Supreme Court (a stolen one). How that is going to make society or your or anyone else's life better, I have no idea.

And your perceived Democratic scandals have been more than topped by Trump and his minions at this point.

You could have voted for Bloomberg, not Bernie.

Well first of all, what happened with Merrick Garland was very wrong and I've said that many times before.

Regarding voting for Bloomberg, my dislike of Warren trumps my like of Bloomberg. If she loses her home state then her electability in a general election comes under serious scrutiny
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 05:08:01 PM
How did you get your green card? In a lucky bag?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 05:15:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 05:08:01 PM
How did you get your green card? In a lucky bag?

Lottery
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
That's cute. I spent thousands of dollars in lawyers' fees and waited over ten years for mine, constantly renewing  my H1B visa while hoping nothing went wrong with the company that was sponsoring me. I find it hillarious that people who had the red carpet rolled out for them and had a green card handed to them on a silver plate, without doing a damn thing to work for it, have the audacity to tell other people to go to the back of a non-existent line. If that's not privilege I don't know what is.

"Look at me! I came legally! You should do the same! Go and win a lottery!"

It also takes a lot of gall to complain about the country becoming more diverse when you yourself got your green card through a scheme called the Diversity Lottery that is specifically designed to make the country more diverse by bringing in more people from a variety of places by opening the border to them at random.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2020, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
I remember when some Democrats were happy that Donald "ha can't possibly beat Hillary" Trump took the GOP nomination.

Believe me, I am under no illusions about Bernies viability as a candidate. It was a calculated wager I made. If Bernie did win though, there's an increased chance the Democrats will loose the house and not a chance they'll win the Senate

People wanted change in 2016
Corrupt establishment, bled the country dry etc


https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

They didn't get any
They still want changeb
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 06:55:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
That's cute. I spent thousands of dollars in lawyers' fees and waited over ten years for mine, constantly renewing  my H1B visa while hoping nothing went wrong with the company that was sponsoring me. I find it hillarious that people who had the red carpet rolled out for them and had a green card handed to them on a silver plate, without doing a damn thing to work for it, have the audacity to tell other people to go to the back of a non-existent line. If that's not privilege I don't know what is.

"Look at me! I came legally! You should do the same! Go and win a lottery!"

It also takes a lot of gall to complain about the country becoming more diverse when you yourself got your green card through a scheme called the Diversity Lottery that is specifically designed to make the country more diverse by bringing in more people from a variety of places by opening the border to them at random.

It's the luck of the draw my friend.......I'm sure you've also gotten some good breaks (and bad ones) in life

And lay off the CNN/DNC talking points. Open borders would be absolutely disastrous for this country, and that is exactly what we'd get with a President Warren or President Sanders. These are the extreme views that's going to get Trump re-elected

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2020, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
I remember when some Democrats were happy that Donald "ha can't possibly beat Hillary" Trump took the GOP nomination.

Believe me, I am under no illusions about Bernies viability as a candidate. It was a calculated wager I made. If Bernie did win though, there's an increased chance the Democrats will loose the house and not a chance they'll win the Senate

People wanted change in 2016
Corrupt establishment, bled the country dry etc


https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

They didn't get any
They still want changeb

Bernie and Trump are essentially third part candidates. It's like all the young ones in Ireland voting for Sinn Fein, without having a clue about them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 06:55:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
That's cute. I spent thousands of dollars in lawyers' fees and waited over ten years for mine, constantly renewing  my H1B visa while hoping nothing went wrong with the company that was sponsoring me. I find it hillarious that people who had the red carpet rolled out for them and had a green card handed to them on a silver plate, without doing a damn thing to work for it, have the audacity to tell other people to go to the back of a non-existent line. If that's not privilege I don't know what is.

"Look at me! I came legally! You should do the same! Go and win a lottery!"

It also takes a lot of gall to complain about the country becoming more diverse when you yourself got your green card through a scheme called the Diversity Lottery that is specifically designed to make the country more diverse by bringing in more people from a variety of places by opening the border to them at random.

It's the luck of the draw my friend.......I'm sure you've also gotten some good breaks (and bad ones) in life

Hypocrite.


Quote
And lay off the CNN/DNC talking points. Open borders would be absolutely disastrous for this country, and that is exactly what we'd get with a President Warren or President Sanders. These are the extreme views that's going to get Trump re-elected

If all the undocumenteds were somehow rounded up and deported, the US economy would collapse and you know it. This country had open borders right up until about 1924 (apart from the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882). It wouldn't exist in its present form without them. "Open borders" is a Fox News talking point that they repeat like a mantra, in the same way that they use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse, in the hope that people will think there's something wrong with open borders without having any idea why. Economists reckon that scrapping international borders would double global GDP. The EU's prosperity is all down to the opening of its internal borders. There's no business case for isolationism. None.

How far we've come from the days when a Republican president railed against borders by standing in Berlin and demanding "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 24, 2020, 10:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

...... a quick google should tell you that little titbit of information that you had in your head that doesnt sound right isnt in fact right before putting it into a post
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 24, 2020, 10:49:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 06:55:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
That's cute. I spent thousands of dollars in lawyers' fees and waited over ten years for mine, constantly renewing  my H1B visa while hoping nothing went wrong with the company that was sponsoring me. I find it hillarious that people who had the red carpet rolled out for them and had a green card handed to them on a silver plate, without doing a damn thing to work for it, have the audacity to tell other people to go to the back of a non-existent line. If that's not privilege I don't know what is.

"Look at me! I came legally! You should do the same! Go and win a lottery!"

It also takes a lot of gall to complain about the country becoming more diverse when you yourself got your green card through a scheme called the Diversity Lottery that is specifically designed to make the country more diverse by bringing in more people from a variety of places by opening the border to them at random.

It's the luck of the draw my friend.......I'm sure you've also gotten some good breaks (and bad ones) in life

Hypocrite.


Quote
And lay off the CNN/DNC talking points. Open borders would be absolutely disastrous for this country, and that is exactly what we'd get with a President Warren or President Sanders. These are the extreme views that's going to get Trump re-elected

If all the undocumenteds were somehow rounded up and deported, the US economy would collapse and you know it. This country had open borders right up until about 1924 (apart from the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882). It wouldn't exist in its present form without them. "Open borders" is a Fox News talking point that they repeat like a mantra, in the same way that they use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse, in the hope that people will think there's something wrong with open borders without having any idea why. Economists reckon that scrapping international borders would double global GDP. The EU's prosperity is all down to the opening of its internal borders. There's no business case for isolationism. None.

How far we've come from the days when a Republican president railed against borders by standing in Berlin and demanding "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
the Bernie bro is in bad form today did ur copy of the daily worker not get dropped off this morning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 24, 2020, 10:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

...... a quick google should tell you that little titbit of information that you had in your head that doesnt sound right isnt in fact right before putting it into a post

Corrected-thank you. Hard to do research on an iPhone sitting in an middle seat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on February 24, 2020, 10:50:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2020, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
I remember when some Democrats were happy that Donald "ha can't possibly beat Hillary" Trump took the GOP nomination.

Believe me, I am under no illusions about Bernies viability as a candidate. It was a calculated wager I made. If Bernie did win though, there's an increased chance the Democrats will loose the house and not a chance they'll win the Senate

People wanted change in 2016
Corrupt establishment, bled the country dry etc


https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

They didn't get any
They still want changeb

Bernie and Trump are essentially third part candidates. It's like all the young ones in Ireland voting for Sinn Fein, without having a clue about them

Your right there tho...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 12:20:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past
Amnesty? Isn't that going to just encourage more migrants like yourself to flood into the US?

Quote
If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

There are many reasons why people migrate from countries like Mexico to the USA. The generosity of the benefits systems is not one of them. The absence of universal healthcare is a price people deem worth paying for the advantages of living in the US. And as I stated previously, the idea that you should make the place less comfortable for everyone in order to deter migrants is just bonkers. That's like putting landmines in your own home to deter burglars.

Undocumented people are allowed to call the cops to report crime.
Undocumented people are allowed to call the fire department to report a fire.
Why should undocumented people be prevented from accessing the health care they need to stay alive?

Quote
If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

Ugh. The UK was not in the Schengen zone. It retained control over its borders, and has its own free travel area with Ireland. That's right, Ireland has an open border running through the middle of it. Do you want to defect to the DUP and call for the building of a wall from Newry to Derry?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 12:22:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 24, 2020, 10:49:32 PM
the Bernie bro is in bad form today did ur copy of the daily worker not get dropped off this morning

My pumpkin-spiced latte came with the wrong type of kale garnish. ~sarc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 25, 2020, 12:51:03 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 12:20:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past
Amnesty? Isn't that going to just encourage more migrants like yourself to flood into the US?

Quote
If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

There are many reasons why people migrate from countries like Mexico to the USA. The generosity of the benefits systems is not one of them. The absence of universal healthcare is a price people deem worth paying for the advantages of living in the US. And as I stated previously, the idea that you should make the place less comfortable for everyone in order to deter migrants is just bonkers. That's like putting landmines in your own home to deter burglars.

Undocumented people are allowed to call the cops to report crime.
Undocumented people are allowed to call the fire department to report a fire.
Why should undocumented people be prevented from accessing the health care they need to stay alive?

Quote
If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

Ugh. The UK was not in the Schengen zone. It retained control over its borders, and has its own free travel area with Ireland. That's right, Ireland has an open border running through the middle of it. Do you want to defect to the DUP and call for the building of a wall from Newry to Derry?

Amnesty-yes-and put the Southern border in lockdown mode until the 12M undocumented have been absorbed and given legal status. Anyone who is here must be here legally, participate and contribute (and many already do)

We can't provide healthcare to the people we already have here.....either legal or undocumented. Why in Gods name would you change the laws to make it easier for even more people to come illegally and then guarantee them healthcare under the law?

If you think that's a winning policy position for the Democrats, well I have news for you, you'll be enjoying 4 more years of President Trump

I don't think undocumented people should be denied healthcare, I just think they shouldn't be guaranteed  the same level of health care coverage under the law as everyone else. That was actually proposed at the Democratic debate when Bernie and Warren proposed abolishing everyone's private healthcare and replacing it with Medicaid for All

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/claire-mccaskill-you-will-lose-voters-with-free-healthcare-for-undocumented-immigrants-64933957914
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 25, 2020, 01:29:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 25, 2020, 02:10:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 25, 2020, 01:29:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.

If you don't believe me, would you believe Jeh Johnson, Obama's head off Homeland Security:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-dhs-secretary-im-a-democrat-but-decriminalizing-illegal-immigration-is-bad-for-the-country%3f_amp=true


"Johnson, who served as secretary of homeland security from 2013 to the end of Obama's presidency in 2017, has previously stated that decriminalizing border crossings is "tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders."


But anyone who disagrees with you guys are right wing zealots, right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:10:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 25, 2020, 02:10:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 25, 2020, 01:29:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.

If you don't believe me, would you believe Jeh Johnson, Obama's head off Homeland Security:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-dhs-secretary-im-a-democrat-but-decriminalizing-illegal-immigration-is-bad-for-the-country%3f_amp=true


"Johnson, who served as secretary of homeland security from 2013 to the end of Obama's presidency in 2017, has previously stated that decriminalizing border crossings is "tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders."


But anyone who disagrees with you guys are right wing zealots, right?
Argumentum ab auctoritate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:12:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 25, 2020, 12:51:03 AM

Amnesty-yes-and put the Southern border in lockdown mode until the 12M undocumented have been absorbed and given legal status. Anyone who is here must be here legally, participate and contribute (and many already do)

We can't provide healthcare to the people we already have here.....either legal or undocumented. Why in Gods name would you change the laws to make it easier for even more people to come illegally and then guarantee them healthcare under the law?

If you think that's a winning policy position for the Democrats, well I have news for you, you'll be enjoying 4 more years of President Trump

I don't think undocumented people should be denied healthcare, I just think they shouldn't be guaranteed  the same level of health care coverage under the law as everyone else. That was actually proposed at the Democratic debate when Bernie and Warren proposed abolishing everyone's private healthcare and replacing it with Medicaid for All

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/claire-mccaskill-you-will-lose-voters-with-free-healthcare-for-undocumented-immigrants-64933957914

How do you plan to perform that little miracle? Build a wall? What about the ones that come in legally through airports and overstay their tourist visas? Are you going to build a roof to keep the planes out?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2020, 05:31:56 AM
Immigration is a distraction from the real issue

The richest 1% of Americans own $21 trillion dollars in stocks

https://www.ft.com/content/2501e154-4789-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

That would buy a decent healthcare system with enough left over for dessert.



https://youtu.be/kqB-wf49Xsc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 25, 2020, 10:41:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 25, 2020, 02:10:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 25, 2020, 01:29:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.

If you don't believe me, would you believe Jeh Johnson, Obama's head off Homeland Security:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-dhs-secretary-im-a-democrat-but-decriminalizing-illegal-immigration-is-bad-for-the-country%3f_amp=true


"Johnson, who served as secretary of homeland security from 2013 to the end of Obama's presidency in 2017, has previously stated that decriminalizing border crossings is "tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders."


But anyone who disagrees with you guys are right wing zealots, right?

Calm yourself.

And no, I do not agree with Johnson.

What or where is the evidence that decriminalizing crossing the border is the same as abandoning it?

How about we label right wing attitudes towards guns as being for the murder of our children?

I'm not saying I'm necessarily for decriminalization, BTW, whether on principle or electoral pragmatism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 25, 2020, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2020, 03:50:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
Bernies supporters are already claiming on Twitter that they are going to win the popular vote, so strap yourself in.

Regarding Trump....I'm not "down" with him, but based on the fake dossier, 17  fisa "errors" and the Democrats despicable behavior during the Kavanaugh hearing I now actually hate them more than I hate Trump.  If the whole place is going to burn down ( no pun intended) I'd prefer it burn down with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court

You have the conservative majority on the Supreme Court (a stolen one). How that is going to make society or your or anyone else's life better, I have no idea.

And your perceived Democratic scandals have been more than topped by Trump and his minions at this point.

You could have voted for Bloomberg, not Bernie.

Well first of all, what happened with Merrick Garland was very wrong and I've said that many times before.

Regarding voting for Bloomberg, my dislike of Warren trumps my like of Bloomberg. If she loses her home state then her electability in a general election comes under serious scrutiny

The key question should be who you like more between Bloomberg and Trump?

Trump will beat Warren. Scaremongering is his and the GOP's thing. She's an easy target.

If you prefer Bloomberg to Trump, you should have voted for him. He has a good chance in the general, if he can make it through the primaries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:56:40 PM
Coronavirus could throw a massive spanner into all this.

Posted in other thread - KA flight attendant on an A380 into LA has come down with the virus.


Assuming that its broke out and loose in the US - then the healthcare system is about to come under massive pressure. The sitting president (rightly or wrongly) gets undue blame for current affairs. Donald wanted to dismantle Obamacare and Bernie is a strong campaigner on healthcare.

Could be the storm that break's The Donald's back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 25, 2020, 05:30:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:56:40 PM
Coronavirus could throw a massive spanner into all this.

Posted in other thread - KA flight attendant on an A380 into LA has come down with the virus.


Assuming that its broke out and loose in the US - then the healthcare system is about to come under massive pressure. The sitting president (rightly or wrongly) gets undue blame for current affairs. Donald wanted to dismantle Obamacare and Bernie is a strong campaigner on healthcare.

Could be the storm that break's The Donald's back.

But Trump saw this coming before anyone and did the travel closings so . . .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 25, 2020, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 25, 2020, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2020, 03:50:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
Bernies supporters are already claiming on Twitter that they are going to win the popular vote, so strap yourself in.

Regarding Trump....I'm not "down" with him, but based on the fake dossier, 17  fisa "errors" and the Democrats despicable behavior during the Kavanaugh hearing I now actually hate them more than I hate Trump.  If the whole place is going to burn down ( no pun intended) I'd prefer it burn down with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court

You have the conservative majority on the Supreme Court (a stolen one). How that is going to make society or your or anyone else's life better, I have no idea.

And your perceived Democratic scandals have been more than topped by Trump and his minions at this point.

You could have voted for Bloomberg, not Bernie.

Well first of all, what happened with Merrick Garland was very wrong and I've said that many times before.

Regarding voting for Bloomberg, my dislike of Warren trumps my like of Bloomberg. If she loses her home state then her electability in a general election comes under serious scrutiny

The key question should be who you like more between Bloomberg and Trump?

Trump will beat Warren. Scaremongering is his and the GOP's thing. She's an easy target.

If you prefer Bloomberg to Trump, you should have voted for him. He has a good chance in the general, if he can make it through the primaries.

I would argue that as a sitting Senator in MA, and with the entire Democratic turnout machine behind her Warren will probably win MA with Bernie coming in close second. He did very well here against Hillary in 2016 and is neck in neck with Warren in the polls.

If he beats her though, it's game over for her, and in MA, Independents like me can pull whatever ballot we want in a Primary. Warren is actually hated by a lot of people here and you could have a lot of  Independents come specifically to do her in
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 25, 2020, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 25, 2020, 10:41:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 25, 2020, 02:10:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 25, 2020, 01:29:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.

If you don't believe me, would you believe Jeh Johnson, Obama's head off Homeland Security:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-dhs-secretary-im-a-democrat-but-decriminalizing-illegal-immigration-is-bad-for-the-country%3f_amp=true


"Johnson, who served as secretary of homeland security from 2013 to the end of Obama's presidency in 2017, has previously stated that decriminalizing border crossings is "tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders."


But anyone who disagrees with you guys are right wing zealots, right?

Calm yourself.

And no, I do not agree with Johnson.

What or where is the evidence that decriminalizing crossing the border is the same as abandoning it?

How about we label right wing attitudes towards guns as being for the murder of our children?

I'm not saying I'm necessarily for decriminalization, BTW, whether on principle or electoral pragmatism.

So now according to Eamonn, Jeh Johnson.....President Obama's head of Homeland Security......is repeating Fox News/Republican Party talking points on immigration-LOL

"Open borders" is a Fox News talking point that they repeat like a mantra, in the same way that they use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse, in the hope that people will think there's something wrong with open borders without having any idea why"

Maybe Eamonn doesn't realize, but the election is decided by SWING VOTERS. Open Borders will cost the The Democrats dearly at the ballot box if they run in this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:56:40 PM
Coronavirus could throw a massive spanner into all this.

Posted in other thread - KA flight attendant on an A380 into LA has come down with the virus.


Assuming that its broke out and loose in the US - then the healthcare system is about to come under massive pressure. The sitting president (rightly or wrongly) gets undue blame for current affairs. Donald wanted to dismantle Obamacare and Bernie is a strong campaigner on healthcare.

Could be the storm that break's The Donald's back.
take a look at what are common diseases in Guatemala and see what u think,  but there should be a revolving door at the border according to eamon j70 and his fellow Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 25, 2020, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:56:40 PM
Coronavirus could throw a massive spanner into all this.

Posted in other thread - KA flight attendant on an A380 into LA has come down with the virus.


Assuming that its broke out and loose in the US - then the healthcare system is about to come under massive pressure. The sitting president (rightly or wrongly) gets undue blame for current affairs. Donald wanted to dismantle Obamacare and Bernie is a strong campaigner on healthcare.

Could be the storm that break's The Donald's back.
take a look at what are common diseases in Guatemala and see what u think,  but there should be a revolving door at the border according to eamon j70 and his fellow Democrats

Please point out where I have said anything resembling that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
take a look at what are common diseases in Guatemala and see what u think,  but there should be a revolving door at the border according to eamon j70 and his fellow Democrats

Only an imbecile would be unable to grasp there is a vast swath of grey between a closed border and an open border.

Did you realise that by making it solely a civil, rather than also criminal offence - the US borderland security could more quickly remove illegals from US soil?

Doubt Fox News told you that.


What Castro is referring to is Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, which stipulates that anyone caught crossing the border illegally is to be tried before a judge and fined, imprisoned for up to two years, or both. At no point does it provide for deportation. Deportation is the penalty for the civil offense of illegal immigration. The criminal offense outlined in Section 1325 simply puts illegal immigrants through the criminal justice system and imprisons them for up to two years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
take a look at what are common diseases in Guatemala and see what u think,  but there should be a revolving door at the border according to eamon j70 and his fellow Democrats

Only an imbecile would be unable to grasp there is a vast swath of grey between a closed border and an open border.

Did you realise that by making it solely a civil, rather than also criminal offence - the US borderland security could more quickly remove illegals from US soil?

Doubt Fox News told you that.


What Castro is referring to is Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, which stipulates that anyone caught crossing the border illegally is to be tried before a judge and fined, imprisoned for up to two years, or both. At no point does it provide for deportation. Deportation is the penalty for the civil offense of illegal immigration. The criminal offense outlined in Section 1325 simply puts illegal immigrants through the criminal justice system and imprisons them for up to two years.
if u  cross border and surrender to border patrol u are released in the us and are given a court date to show up to court and plea your case (10% of people show up)for amnesty , if you enter illegally and are caught u are locked up and deported which is proper order , only a sick imbecile would be hoping the corona virus would be the reason a president lost an election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 06:53:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 25, 2020, 06:08:15 PM


So now according to Eamonn, Jeh Johnson.....President Obama's head of Homeland Security......is repeating Fox News/Republican Party talking points on immigration-LOL

"Open borders" is a Fox News talking point that they repeat like a mantra, in the same way that they use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse, in the hope that people will think there's something wrong with open borders without having any idea why"

Maybe Eamonn doesn't realize, but the election is decided by SWING VOTERS. Open Borders will cost the The Democrats dearly at the ballot box if they run in this

Dems are not running on an "open borders" platform. North America is a long way off achieving the level of integration that the EU has.

People who say Bernie is for "open borders" are the same people who seem to think that medicare for all = communism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 06:59:25 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:56:40 PM
Coronavirus could throw a massive spanner into all this.

Posted in other thread - KA flight attendant on an A380 into LA has come down with the virus.


Assuming that its broke out and loose in the US - then the healthcare system is about to come under massive pressure. The sitting president (rightly or wrongly) gets undue blame for current affairs. Donald wanted to dismantle Obamacare and Bernie is a strong campaigner on healthcare.

Could be the storm that break's The Donald's back.

Oh and the Dow just dropped 1000 points today. I wonder if this could be the equivalent of the 2008 financial crisis that helped Obama to his victory.

(https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5a7904cb1d000026006ade10.jpeg?cache=gyczdpplfj&ops=scalefit_630_noupscale)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 25, 2020, 07:03:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 06:53:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 25, 2020, 06:08:15 PM


So now according to Eamonn, Jeh Johnson.....President Obama's head of Homeland Security......is repeating Fox News/Republican Party talking points on immigration-LOL

"Open borders" is a Fox News talking point that they repeat like a mantra, in the same way that they use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse, in the hope that people will think there's something wrong with open borders without having any idea why"

Maybe Eamonn doesn't realize, but the election is decided by SWING VOTERS. Open Borders will cost the The Democrats dearly at the ballot box if they run in this

Dems are not running on an "open borders" platform. North America is a long way off achieving the level of integration that the EU has.

People who say Bernie is for "open borders" are the same people who seem to think that medicare for all = communism.

Okay....believe whatever you want, but that's what they'll be painted with come November.....mark my words

I've already quoted Jeh Johnson for you.......here's Claire McCaskill if you need further evidence (@ 1.00)

https://youtu.be/XXIuzVnD0uA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 25, 2020, 07:05:45 PM
Let's hope the Dems don't use the coronavirus against Trump, unless of course deserved.

One wonders what kind of comments the man himself made in the lead up to the 2014 midterms when the GOP were trying to scare the living f**k out of everyone about Ebola and Obama's response.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 25, 2020, 07:07:26 PM
Whitey, I don't think any of us are under any illusions about how Trump, his GOP lapdogs, Fox News, Limbaugh, Putin and the rest will try to paint the Dems this year!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 25, 2020, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 25, 2020, 07:07:26 PM
Whitey, I don't think any of us are under any illusions about how Trump, his GOP lapdogs, Fox News, Limbaugh, Putin and the rest will try to paint the Dems this year!

You forget to add  Jeh Johnson and Claire McCaskill to your list
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
if u  cross border and surrender to border patrol u are released in the us and are given a court date to show up to court and plea your case (10% of people show up)for amnesty , if you enter illegally and are caught u are locked up and deported which is proper order , only a sick imbecile would be hoping the corona virus would be the reason a president lost an election.

If "u" could read - you'd clearly have seen that deporting the person has nothing to do with it being a criminal offence. That was the very thing I was drawing attention to in the post you quoted - but it obviously still sailed right over your head.
It would be a lot less expensive if the US justice system could immediately deport the illegal immigrant rather than have to house them in a jail (at considerable expense) for a period of up to 2 years.

What is your reasoning for keeping it a criminal offence rather than restricting it solely to a civil offence? [Note that I don't believe its possible to commit a crime and not be subject to penitentiary punishment - particularly in lieu of fiscal punishment - in the US justice system - thus I don't believe deportation can be an option for a criminal offence where the offender cannot pay a fine]



Furthermore - where did I ever say or hint at being hopeful the virus would be a reason for The Donald to lose the election? It was an observation that it may influence the election, no more, no less.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 25, 2020, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
if u  cross border and surrender to border patrol u are released in the us and are given a court date to show up to court and plea your case (10% of people show up)for amnesty , if you enter illegally and are caught u are locked up and deported which is proper order , only a sick imbecile would be hoping the corona virus would be the reason a president lost an election.

If "u" could read - you'd clearly have seen that deporting the person has nothing to do with it being a criminal offence. That was the very thing I was drawing attention to in the post you quoted - but it obviously still sailed right over your head.
It would be a lot less expensive if the US justice system could immediately deport the illegal immigrant rather than have to house them in a jail (at considerable expense) for a period of up to 2 years.

What is your reasoning for keeping it a criminal offence rather than restricting it solely to a civil offence? [Note that I don't believe its possible to commit a crime and not be subject to penitentiary punishment - particularly in lieu of fiscal punishment - in the US justice system - thus I don't believe deportation can be an option for a criminal offence where the offender cannot pay a fine]



Furthermore - where did I ever say or hint at being hopeful the virus would be a reason for The Donald to lose the election? It was an observation that it may influence the election, no more, no less.

I'm not an immigration attorney but here's what Jeh Johnson had to say in the matter

"when we talk about deprioritizing the deportation of those apprehended at the border or decriminalizing illegal immigration ... That just simply incentives more illegal immigration."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
if u  cross border and surrender to border patrol u are released in the us and are given a court date to show up to court and plea your case (10% of people show up)for amnesty , if you enter illegally and are caught u are locked up and deported which is proper order , only a sick imbecile would be hoping the corona virus would be the reason a president lost an election.

If "u" could read - you'd clearly have seen that deporting the person has nothing to do with it being a criminal offence. That was the very thing I was drawing attention to in the post you quoted - but it obviously still sailed right over your head.
It would be a lot less expensive if the US justice system could immediately deport the illegal immigrant rather than have to house them in a jail (at considerable expense) for a period of up to 2 years.

What is your reasoning for keeping it a criminal offence rather than restricting it solely to a civil offence? [Note that I don't believe its possible to commit a crime and not be subject to penitentiary punishment - particularly in lieu of fiscal punishment - in the US justice system - thus I don't believe deportation can be an option for a criminal offence where the offender cannot pay a fine]



Furthermore - where did I ever say or hint at being hopeful the virus would be a reason for The Donald to lose the election? It was an observation that it may influence the election, no more, no less.
deport them to where Mexico so they can try cross the border next day ? Or should they be all flown back to their place of origin how much would that cost and how many times would it be done ? not everyone crossing the border from Mexico is a Mexican, should the people from El Salvador be deported to Mexico or El Salvador .would the government not need to hold them for a while to determine who they are and check if they are wanted in any states or their county of origin ?
My original point was is Bernie worried about the diseases coming across our southern border everyday disease that have been eradicated in the us for decades .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 10:19:40 PM
New drinking game: take a shot every time Whitey says "Jeh Johnson"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 03:49:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 10:19:40 PM
New drinking game: take a shot every time Whitey says "Jeh Johnson"

Please do.....you might make more sense than what you're currently making
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 11:04:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 10:15:21 PM
deport them to where Mexico so they can try cross the border next day ? Or should they be all flown back to their place of origin how much would that cost and how many times would it be done ?

It costs somewhere between $30k and $60k per year to keep someone in prison in the US.

That's quite a few flights.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2020, 11:05:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 25, 2020, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
if u  cross border and surrender to border patrol u are released in the us and are given a court date to show up to court and plea your case (10% of people show up)for amnesty , if you enter illegally and are caught u are locked up and deported which is proper order , only a sick imbecile would be hoping the corona virus would be the reason a president lost an election.

If "u" could read - you'd clearly have seen that deporting the person has nothing to do with it being a criminal offence. That was the very thing I was drawing attention to in the post you quoted - but it obviously still sailed right over your head.
It would be a lot less expensive if the US justice system could immediately deport the illegal immigrant rather than have to house them in a jail (at considerable expense) for a period of up to 2 years.

What is your reasoning for keeping it a criminal offence rather than restricting it solely to a civil offence? [Note that I don't believe its possible to commit a crime and not be subject to penitentiary punishment - particularly in lieu of fiscal punishment - in the US justice system - thus I don't believe deportation can be an option for a criminal offence where the offender cannot pay a fine]



Furthermore - where did I ever say or hint at being hopeful the virus would be a reason for The Donald to lose the election? It was an observation that it may influence the election, no more, no less.

I'm not an immigration attorney but here's what Jeh Johnson had to say in the matter

"when we talk about deprioritizing the deportation of those apprehended at the border or decriminalizing illegal immigration ... That just simply incentives more illegal immigration."

That is something that can be debated on its merits without false labels and scaremongering like "open borders".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 26, 2020, 11:15:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
take a look at what are common diseases in Guatemala and see what u think,  but there should be a revolving door at the border according to eamon j70 and his fellow Democrats

Only an imbecile would be unable to grasp there is a vast swath of grey between a closed border and an open border.

Did you realise that by making it solely a civil, rather than also criminal offence - the US borderland security could more quickly remove illegals from US soil?

Doubt Fox News told you that.


What Castro is referring to is Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, which stipulates that anyone caught crossing the border illegally is to be tried before a judge and fined, imprisoned for up to two years, or both. At no point does it provide for deportation. Deportation is the penalty for the civil offense of illegal immigration. The criminal offense outlined in Section 1325 simply puts illegal immigrants through the criminal justice system and imprisons them for up to two years.
if u  cross border and surrender to border patrol u are released in the us and are given a court date to show up to court and plea your case (10% of people show up)for amnesty , if you enter illegally and are caught u are locked up and deported which is proper order , only a sick imbecile would be hoping the corona virus would be the reason a president lost an election.

Only 10 percent show up for hearings????

As soon as I read this, I knew it was completely wrong. And I haven't lived in the States for nearly 25 years.

It literally took me 10secs on Google to find this link - by using the search terms "percentage of illegal immigrants who attend hearings following catch and release"

https://www.vox.com/2020/1/10/21059924/trump-asylum-seekers-show-up-court-hearing

So if you're basic premise is wrong, why should anyone believe anything else you say re immigration? The vast majority of people who cross the border want to be there legally, want to obey laws and pay taxes (which they do whilst illegal and percentage wise are more law abiding than citizens) and are an economic boon to the communities they live in.

The information to educate yourself is keystrokes away. You should try it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 11:05:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 25, 2020, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
if u  cross border and surrender to border patrol u are released in the us and are given a court date to show up to court and plea your case (10% of people show up)for amnesty , if you enter illegally and are caught u are locked up and deported which is proper order , only a sick imbecile would be hoping the corona virus would be the reason a president lost an election.

If "u" could read - you'd clearly have seen that deporting the person has nothing to do with it being a criminal offence. That was the very thing I was drawing attention to in the post you quoted - but it obviously still sailed right over your head.
It would be a lot less expensive if the US justice system could immediately deport the illegal immigrant rather than have to house them in a jail (at considerable expense) for a period of up to 2 years.

What is your reasoning for keeping it a criminal offence rather than restricting it solely to a civil offence? [Note that I don't believe its possible to commit a crime and not be subject to penitentiary punishment - particularly in lieu of fiscal punishment - in the US justice system - thus I don't believe deportation can be an option for a criminal offence where the offender cannot pay a fine]



Furthermore - where did I ever say or hint at being hopeful the virus would be a reason for The Donald to lose the election? It was an observation that it may influence the election, no more, no less.

I'm not an immigration attorney but here's what Jeh Johnson had to say in the matter

"when we talk about deprioritizing the deportation of those apprehended at the border or decriminalizing illegal immigration ... That just simply incentives more illegal immigration."

That is something that can be debated on its merits without false labels and scaremongering like "open borders".

So Johnson is now scaremongering and using false labels? Interesting

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/3/jeh-johnson-obama-homeland-security-secretary-rips/

"That is tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders," he said. "That is unworkable, unwise and does not have the support of a majority of American people or the Congress."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
You can post that link as many times as you want.

It doesn't change the point.

If you want to argue that the various Dem proposals are "open borders", then go ahead and lay it out. You've already stated that its one of your major motivations in giving your de facto vote to Trump, along with your "hatred" for the Dems for their apparently uniquely despicable conduct.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
You can post that link as many times as you want.

It doesn't change the point.

If you want to argue that the various Dem proposals are "open borders", then go ahead and lay it out. You've already stated that its one of your major motivations in giving your de facto vote to Trump, along with your "hatred" for the Dems for their apparently uniquely despicable conduct.

Doesn't change which  point?  Are you saying that's  it's false, misleading and scaremongering to say that it will lead to open borders?

Because if that's what you're saying-both Claire McCaskill and Jeh Johnson would vehemently disagree with you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:34:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
You can post that link as many times as you want.

It doesn't change the point.

If you want to argue that the various Dem proposals are "open borders", then go ahead and lay it out. You've already stated that its one of your major motivations in giving your de facto vote to Trump, along with your "hatred" for the Dems for their apparently uniquely despicable conduct.

Doesn't change which  point?  Are you saying that's  it's false, misleading and scaremongering to say that it will lead to open borders?

Because if that's what you're saying-both Claire McCaskill and Jeh Johnson would vehemently disagree with you

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

And McCaskill, at least in the one you posted a couple of days back, was more concerned with appealing to voters i.e. optics (and thus labeling), than the actual pros and cons of such policies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:34:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
You can post that link as many times as you want.

It doesn't change the point.

If you want to argue that the various Dem proposals are "open borders", then go ahead and lay it out. You've already stated that its one of your major motivations in giving your de facto vote to Trump, along with your "hatred" for the Dems for their apparently uniquely despicable conduct.

Doesn't change which  point?  Are you saying that's  it's false, misleading and scaremongering to say that it will lead to open borders?

Because if that's what you're saying-both Claire McCaskill and Jeh Johnson would vehemently disagree with you

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

And McCaskill, at least in the one you posted a couple of days back, was more concerned with appealing to voters i.e. optics (and thus labeling), than the actual pros and cons of such policies.

How about Harry Reid then

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/ywadgw/exclusive-harry-reid-of-course-medicare-for-all-and-decriminalizing-border-crossings-are-bad-ideas


"People want a fair immigration system. They don't want an open-door invitation for everybody to come at once," argued Reid"


If you guys want to die in this hill, knock yourselves out, but seeiminglt it's something even 2/3 of Democrats are against

https://www.google.com/amp/s/freebeacon.com/politics/cnn-panel-clashes-with-castro-over-decriminalizing-illegal-border-crossings/amp/


"Less than a third of Democrats support what you're talking about. You just said before it's not that popular. It's really unpopular,"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:34:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
You can post that link as many times as you want.

It doesn't change the point.

If you want to argue that the various Dem proposals are "open borders", then go ahead and lay it out. You've already stated that its one of your major motivations in giving your de facto vote to Trump, along with your "hatred" for the Dems for their apparently uniquely despicable conduct.

Doesn't change which  point?  Are you saying that's  it's false, misleading and scaremongering to say that it will lead to open borders?

Because if that's what you're saying-both Claire McCaskill and Jeh Johnson would vehemently disagree with you

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

And McCaskill, at least in the one you posted a couple of days back, was more concerned with appealing to voters i.e. optics (and thus labeling), than the actual pros and cons of such policies.

How about Harry Reid then

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/ywadgw/exclusive-harry-reid-of-course-medicare-for-all-and-decriminalizing-border-crossings-are-bad-ideas


"People want a fair immigration system. They don't want an open-door invitation for everybody to come at once," argued Reid"

He's not calling it "open borders", with its implications of unprotected frontiers and zero control, oversight, vetting and inspections.

What is so difficult about this for you to understand?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 26, 2020, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 10:19:40 PM
New drinking game: take a shot every time Whitey says "Jeh Johnson"

As least he's moved one from sex change operations in prison.

Has Johnson been on Fox News recently - is that why he's whitey's new talking point?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:59:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:34:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
You can post that link as many times as you want.

It doesn't change the point.

If you want to argue that the various Dem proposals are "open borders", then go ahead and lay it out. You've already stated that its one of your major motivations in giving your de facto vote to Trump, along with your "hatred" for the Dems for their apparently uniquely despicable conduct.

Doesn't change which  point?  Are you saying that's  it's false, misleading and scaremongering to say that it will lead to open borders?

Because if that's what you're saying-both Claire McCaskill and Jeh Johnson would vehemently disagree with you

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

And McCaskill, at least in the one you posted a couple of days back, was more concerned with appealing to voters i.e. optics (and thus labeling), than the actual pros and cons of such policies.

How about Harry Reid then

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/ywadgw/exclusive-harry-reid-of-course-medicare-for-all-and-decriminalizing-border-crossings-are-bad-ideas


"People want a fair immigration system. They don't want an open-door invitation for everybody to come at once," argued Reid"

He's not calling it "open borders", with its implications of unprotected frontiers and zero control, oversight, vetting and inspections.

What is so difficult about this for you to understand?

And that is why Johnson called it "de facto" open borders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2020, 02:03:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:59:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:34:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
You can post that link as many times as you want.

It doesn't change the point.

If you want to argue that the various Dem proposals are "open borders", then go ahead and lay it out. You've already stated that its one of your major motivations in giving your de facto vote to Trump, along with your "hatred" for the Dems for their apparently uniquely despicable conduct.

Doesn't change which  point?  Are you saying that's  it's false, misleading and scaremongering to say that it will lead to open borders?

Because if that's what you're saying-both Claire McCaskill and Jeh Johnson would vehemently disagree with you

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

And McCaskill, at least in the one you posted a couple of days back, was more concerned with appealing to voters i.e. optics (and thus labeling), than the actual pros and cons of such policies.

How about Harry Reid then

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/ywadgw/exclusive-harry-reid-of-course-medicare-for-all-and-decriminalizing-border-crossings-are-bad-ideas


"People want a fair immigration system. They don't want an open-door invitation for everybody to come at once," argued Reid"

He's not calling it "open borders", with its implications of unprotected frontiers and zero control, oversight, vetting and inspections.

What is so difficult about this for you to understand?

And that is why Johnson called it "de facto" open borders.

So decriminalizing illegal entry is essentially the same as abandoning the frontiers with Mexico and Canada and shutting down all the CBP entry points in the airports and sea ports.

Gotcha. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 02:06:14 PM
Ask the former head of Homeland Security under the last Democratic President what he thinks

They are his views not mine
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2020, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 02:06:14 PM
Ask the former head of Homeland Security under the last Democratic President what he thinks

They are his views not mine

Well you're posting them over and over again, so one would have to assume you agree. You've also said "open borders " are one of the reasons you want Trump to win in November.

So feel free to make the argument that a vote for the Dems is a vote to abandon any control or oversight of the border and the entry of people into the country. Because that is what " open borders " means.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 02:25:15 PM
You and Eamonn are claiming that they're some right wing talking points -they're not

I,  speaking as an independent voter,  expect a full blown crisis at the southern border with millions of people flooding in should a Democrat who holds these views get elected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2020, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 02:25:15 PM
You and Eamonn are claiming that they're some right wing talking points -they're not

I,  speaking as an independent voter,  expect a full blown crisis at the southern border with millions of people flooding in should a Democrat who holds these views get elected

The label "open borders" is a right wing talking point. I'm sure it's been well focus-grouped by the likes of Frank Luntz. Just because some Dems used it urging caution doesn't change that.

I've said nothing either way about the pros and cons of the actual proposal to decriminalize illegal entry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
Putting the label aside for a moment, do you think that the number of people crossing illegally will rise if it's decriminalized?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2020, 02:59:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
Putting the label aside for a moment, do you think that the number of people crossing illegally will rise if it's decriminalized?

Its possible, of course.

But, I don't know what role the potential penalty plays, if any, in the decision to leave Guatemala or Nicaragua and trek across Mexico before trying to sneak in. Does the average person fleeing gang violence in those countries or hoping to stay with a relative to find work care if they'll possibly be jailed instead of deported straight away if caught? Is there any evidence that it has been a deterrent, especially with criminal enforcement presumably up under Trump?

I'm sure there is research out there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 26, 2020, 03:33:24 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 26, 2020, 11:15:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
take a look at what are common diseases in Guatemala and see what u think,  but there should be a revolving door at the border according to eamon j70 and his fellow Democrats

Only an imbecile would be unable to grasp there is a vast swath of grey between a closed border and an open border.

Did you realise that by making it solely a civil, rather than also criminal offence - the US borderland security could more quickly remove illegals from US soil?

Doubt Fox News told you that.


What Castro is referring to is Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, which stipulates that anyone caught crossing the border illegally is to be tried before a judge and fined, imprisoned for up to two years, or both. At no point does it provide for deportation. Deportation is the penalty for the civil offense of illegal immigration. The criminal offense outlined in Section 1325 simply puts illegal immigrants through the criminal justice system and imprisons them for up to two years.
if u  cross border and surrender to border patrol u are released in the us and are given a court date to show up to court and plea your case (10% of people show up)for amnesty , if you enter illegally and are caught u are locked up and deported which is proper order , only a sick imbecile would be hoping the corona virus would be the reason a president lost an election.

Only 10 percent show up for hearings????

As soon as I read this, I knew it was completely wrong. And I haven't lived in the States for nearly 25 years.

It literally took me 10secs on Google to find this link - by using the search terms "percentage of illegal immigrants who attend hearings following catch and release"

https://www.vox.com/2020/1/10/21059924/trump-asylum-seekers-show-up-court-hearing

So if you're basic premise is wrong, why should anyone believe anything else you say re immigration? The vast majority of people who cross the border want to be there legally, want to obey laws and pay taxes (which they do whilst illegal and percentage wise are more law abiding than citizens) and are an economic boon to the communities they live in.

The information to educate yourself is keystrokes away. You should try it.
educate yourself says the guy quoting vox don't believe too much they report .
The acting dhs secretary McAleenan said at a may 23rd senate Judiciary Committee hearing that 90% of final deportation orders were given to absent parolees.  I live in the community you are talking about but you know more than me ? I would never start talking about Ireland like I know more than you do and base my claims from a google search.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2020, 03:40:30 PM
Yeah, the Vox article in question only reports (and links to) academic research as well as reports from Trump's own DOJ. :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 03:42:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
Putting the label aside for a moment, do you think that the number of people crossing illegally will rise if it's decriminalized?

Probably would - at least initially.

But the cost to the US taxpayer of removing them would be reduced as they aren't housed in US prisons before being deported. (Not to mention the costs of the criminal proceedings within the legal system).

Therefore, chances are it'd be a net reduction in cost to the US taxpayer.

Isn't that not what you are really after?



Then consider the longer term benefits:
1. they are straight back where they started with nothing gained and thus are more likely to be disillusioned with trying again (and somewhat embarrassed by ending up facing the same people they told last week they were off to the US).
2. they don't get the opportunity to make criminal connections in prison - which then lead to cross-border criminal operations.
3. US prisons may be a better environment than some of the places the immigrants are coming from. So prison is not a deterrent.
3. any jump in numbers of people arriving at the border initially would quickly subside as greater numbers would be getting deported back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 26, 2020, 03:44:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2020, 03:40:30 PM
Yeah, the Vox article in question only reports (and links to) academic research as well as reports from Trump's own DOJ. :o
in my original post I should have stated 10% show to the final hearing , doesn't change the fact
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 04:08:03 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 03:42:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
Putting the label aside for a moment, do you think that the number of people crossing illegally will rise if it's decriminalized?

Probably would - at least initially.

But the cost to the US taxpayer of removing them would be reduced as they aren't housed in US prisons before being deported. (Not to mention the costs of the criminal proceedings within the legal system).

Therefore, chances are it'd be a net reduction in cost to the US taxpayer.

Isn't that not what you are really after?



Then consider the longer term benefits:
1. they are straight back where they started with nothing gained and thus are more likely to be disillusioned with trying again (and somewhat embarrassed by ending up facing the same people they told last week they were off to the US).
2. they don't get the opportunity to make criminal connections in prison - which then lead to cross-border criminal operations.
3. US prisons may be a better environment than some of the places the immigrants are coming from. So prison is not a deterrent.
3. any jump in numbers of people arriving at the border initially would quickly subside as greater numbers would be getting deported back.

Given that the presumptive Democratic nominees will guarantee benefits for these new arrivals, I can't even imagine what a cluster debacle it will become
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 04:08:03 PM
Given that the presumptive Democratic nominees will guarantee benefits for these new arrivals, I can't even imagine what a cluster debacle it will become

Say they didn't and instead insisted on immediate deportation - would you then be OK with it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 04:08:03 PM
Given that the presumptive Democratic nominees will guarantee benefits for these new arrivals, I can't even imagine what a cluster debacle it will become

Say they didn't and instead insisted on immediate deportation - would you then be OK with it?

We should not be encouraging, facilitating or accommodating people who enter the country illegally

There are millions upon millions of people here already without documentation

Let's get them squared away first
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 04:08:03 PM
Given that the presumptive Democratic nominees will guarantee benefits for these new arrivals, I can't even imagine what a cluster debacle it will become

Say they didn't and instead insisted on immediate deportation - would you then be OK with it?

We should not be encouraging, facilitating or accommodating people who enter the country illegally

There are millions upon millions of people here already without documentation

Let's get them squared away first

But it would be quicker to get them away if they didn't have to spend up to 2 years in prison but were instead immediately deported.

Furthermore, by housing someone in prison, you are directly accommodating them.

I'm really not seeing the logic of your position once you step past the perception of "decriminalisation" and realise it would actually speed up deportations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 26, 2020, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 04:08:03 PM
Given that the presumptive Democratic nominees will guarantee benefits for these new arrivals, I can't even imagine what a cluster debacle it will become

Say they didn't and instead insisted on immediate deportation - would you then be OK with it?

We should not be encouraging, facilitating or accommodating people who enter the country illegally

There are millions upon millions of people here already without documentation

Let's get them squared away first

But it would be quicker to get them away if they didn't have to spend up to 2 years in prison but were instead immediately deported.

Furthermore, by housing someone in prison, you are directly accommodating them.

I'm really not seeing the logic of your position once you step past the perception of "decriminalisation" and realise it would actually speed up deportations.

Less profitable for private human warehousing prison companies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 27, 2020, 01:26:06 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 03:42:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
Putting the label aside for a moment, do you think that the number of people crossing illegally will rise if it's decriminalized?

Probably would - at least initially.

But the cost to the US taxpayer of removing them would be reduced as they aren't housed in US prisons before being deported. (Not to mention the costs of the criminal proceedings within the legal system).

Therefore, chances are it'd be a net reduction in cost to the US taxpayer.

Isn't that not what you are really after?



Then consider the longer term benefits:
1. they are straight back where they started with nothing gained and thus are more likely to be disillusioned with trying again (and somewhat embarrassed by ending up facing the same people they told last week they were off to the US).
2. they don't get the opportunity to make criminal connections in prison - which then lead to cross-border criminal operations.
3. US prisons may be a better environment than some of the places the immigrants are coming from. So prison is not a deterrent.
3. any jump in numbers of people arriving at the border initially would quickly subside as greater numbers would be getting deported back.
apprehended people are held in detention centers not the local county jail with murderers and rapists .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:17:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 27, 2020, 01:26:06 AM
apprehended people are held in detention centers not the local county jail with murderers and rapists .

Pre or post sentencing?

Those detention centres won't come for free either of course. Google says around $130/adult/day & $300/mother-children/day. Thats $47k/adult/year and $110k/mother-children/year.
So it seems whether its a prison or detention centre, the cost is still significant.

Interjet would fly you one way from Dallas to Mexico City for $130. A chartered jet will do it significantly cheaper than that too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2020, 10:44:46 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 26, 2020, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2020, 04:08:03 PM
Given that the presumptive Democratic nominees will guarantee benefits for these new arrivals, I can't even imagine what a cluster debacle it will become

Say they didn't and instead insisted on immediate deportation - would you then be OK with it?

We should not be encouraging, facilitating or accommodating people who enter the country illegally

There are millions upon millions of people here already without documentation

Let's get them squared away first

But it would be quicker to get them away if they didn't have to spend up to 2 years in prison but were instead immediately deported.

Furthermore, by housing someone in prison, you are directly accommodating them.

I'm really not seeing the logic of your position once you step past the perception of "decriminalisation" and realise it would actually speed up deportations.

Less profitable for private human warehousing prison companies.
Incarceration is 8% of US GDP
Compared to.less than 1% elsewhere.
It is a  scam to.enrich the richest.

US healthcare is 17% of GDP
Compared to.c 10% elsewhere.
It is another scam.

Incarceration  plus sickness cost 25% of GDP
This is nuts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on February 27, 2020, 10:48:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2020, 10:44:46 AM

Incarceration is 8% of US GDP
Compared to.less than 1% elsewhere.
It is a  scam to.enrich the richest.

US healthcare is 17% of GDP
Compared to.c 10% elsewhere.
It is another scam.

Incarceration  plus sickness cost 25% of GDP
This is nuts

You are correct in relation to incarceration. It is a monumental scandal.

Healthcare less so, merely a restatement of the truism that the demand for healthcare is limitless and the more money you commit to it, the more money it will consume.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2020, 11:06:35 AM
The cost system of healthcare in the US is ridiculous and completely unpredictable, with astronomical ranges in what they charge for simple medicines, never mind procedures. People don't care until it personally bites them on the arse. You got charged 80 dollars for an aspirin? So what, the insurance company will pay them two under their particular negotiated rates and you're not on the hook for anything if you've got a 100% policy (although this will have massive premiums). Its all good though until the unpredictability hits and some doctor who is not covered under your policy (even though the clinic or hospital itself is) glances at your chart and throws down an invoice for five grand which you are then responsible for, even though you'd no clue it was coming. Doesn't matter that you were horribly ill or injured and your family desperate, you should have been checking every medical professional who entered the room to make sure you were still in network during your stay. And god help you if you have to go out of network, or worse, get caught with either no insurance or insufficient coverage for what you need. Hope you've got a handy hundred grand lying around to pay for that surgery you unexpectedly need or even more for the cancer treatment. Just bring the deed to your house with you, just in case. Assuming you own a house.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on February 27, 2020, 11:08:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 26, 2020, 03:33:24 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 26, 2020, 11:15:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
take a look at what are common diseases in Guatemala and see what u think,  but there should be a revolving door at the border according to eamon j70 and his fellow Democrats

Only an imbecile would be unable to grasp there is a vast swath of grey between a closed border and an open border.

Did you realise that by making it solely a civil, rather than also criminal offence - the US borderland security could more quickly remove illegals from US soil?

Doubt Fox News told you that.


What Castro is referring to is Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, which stipulates that anyone caught crossing the border illegally is to be tried before a judge and fined, imprisoned for up to two years, or both. At no point does it provide for deportation. Deportation is the penalty for the civil offense of illegal immigration. The criminal offense outlined in Section 1325 simply puts illegal immigrants through the criminal justice system and imprisons them for up to two years.
if u  cross border and surrender to border patrol u are released in the us and are given a court date to show up to court and plea your case (10% of people show up)for amnesty , if you enter illegally and are caught u are locked up and deported which is proper order , only a sick imbecile would be hoping the corona virus would be the reason a president lost an election.

Only 10 percent show up for hearings????

As soon as I read this, I knew it was completely wrong. And I haven't lived in the States for nearly 25 years.

It literally took me 10secs on Google to find this link - by using the search terms "percentage of illegal immigrants who attend hearings following catch and release"

https://www.vox.com/2020/1/10/21059924/trump-asylum-seekers-show-up-court-hearing

So if you're basic premise is wrong, why should anyone believe anything else you say re immigration? The vast majority of people who cross the border want to be there legally, want to obey laws and pay taxes (which they do whilst illegal and percentage wise are more law abiding than citizens) and are an economic boon to the communities they live in.

The information to educate yourself is keystrokes away. You should try it.
educate yourself says the guy quoting vox don't believe too much they report .
The acting dhs secretary McAleenan said at a may 23rd senate Judiciary Committee hearing that 90% of final deportation orders were given to absent parolees.  I live in the community you are talking about but you know more than me ? I would never start talking about Ireland like I know more than you do and base my claims from a google search.

No, I was linking to Vox who were quoting a report - you can do that on the internet now - here's the link https://trac.syr.edu/whatsnew/email.200108.html
The acting dhs secretary McAleenan said at a may 23rd senate Judiciary Committee hearing that 90% of final deportation orders were given to absent parolees
 is very different from saying only 10 percent of immigrants turn up for hearings. Again pointing to a need to educate yourself - as does the basic lack of awareness that an acting DHS sec would have an inherent political bias whereas Syracuse University conducting an academic study would not. I didn't say I know more than you about this subject because I live in Ireland - I'm saying I know more than you because I have a decent respect for civics and maths.

If I were you, I'd try and google a bit more around this subject and also apply a bit of critical thinking to the sources that you use.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 10:48:09 AM
Healthcare less so, merely a restatement of the truism that the demand for healthcare is limitless and the more money you commit to it, the more money it will consume.

Yet by most headline figures - health care within the US is worse than most other 1st world countries - and those countries spend significantly lower proportions of GDP on healthcare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on February 27, 2020, 03:01:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 10:48:09 AM
Healthcare less so, merely a restatement of the truism that the demand for healthcare is limitless and the more money you commit to it, the more money it will consume.

Yet by most headline figures - health care within the US is worse than most other 1st world countries - and those countries spend significantly lower proportions of GDP on healthcare.

Doesn't really change the fact that the demand for healthcare is limitless. They more money you have the more you will spend on it. And the more you spend on it, the more of this will be wasted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 27, 2020, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 03:01:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 10:48:09 AM
Healthcare less so, merely a restatement of the truism that the demand for healthcare is limitless and the more money you commit to it, the more money it will consume.

Yet by most headline figures - health care within the US is worse than most other 1st world countries - and those countries spend significantly lower proportions of GDP on healthcare.

Doesn't really change the fact that the demand for healthcare is limitless. They more money you have the more you will spend on it. And the more you spend on it, the more of this will be wasted.

My cousin lost a 4 year old to brain cancer.  After she exhausted her insurance, I think they had a $3M lifetime cap, she then went on Medicaid in order to get a $700K stem cell transplant. The numbers are simply staggering
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 03:52:44 PM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 03:01:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 10:48:09 AM
Healthcare less so, merely a restatement of the truism that the demand for healthcare is limitless and the more money you commit to it, the more money it will consume.

Yet by most headline figures - health care within the US is worse than most other 1st world countries - and those countries spend significantly lower proportions of GDP on healthcare.

Doesn't really change the fact that the demand for healthcare is limitless. They more money you have the more you will spend on it. And the more you spend on it, the more of this will be wasted.

Yes, you will be well into the realm of diminished returns. But you should not be seeing a worse outcome!

So, going by spend as a function of GDP, the USA should have the best (or one of the best) healthcare systems in the world. Instead it is very mediocre.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on February 27, 2020, 04:18:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 03:52:44 PM
Yes, you will be well into the realm of diminished returns. But you should not be seeing a worse outcome!

So, going by spend as a function of GDP, the USA should have the best (or one of the best) healthcare systems in the world. Instead it is very mediocre.

Yes, but that just suggests that they're well into the realm of diminished returns. Essentially people, individually and collectively, are throwing all the money they have at healthcare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on February 27, 2020, 04:28:54 PM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 04:18:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 03:52:44 PM
Yes, you will be well into the realm of diminished returns. But you should not be seeing a worse outcome!

So, going by spend as a function of GDP, the USA should have the best (or one of the best) healthcare systems in the world. Instead it is very mediocre.

Yes, but that just suggests that they're well into the realm of diminished returns. Essentially people, individually and collectively, are throwing all the money they have at healthcare.

OR US healthcare is vastly overpriced to line the pockets of big Pharma and the various other providers with no sign of a functioning market economy to keep the prices competitive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on February 27, 2020, 04:34:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 27, 2020, 04:28:54 PM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 04:18:00 PM

Yes, but that just suggests that they're well into the realm of diminished returns. Essentially people, individually and collectively, are throwing all the money they have at healthcare.

OR US healthcare is vastly overpriced to line the pockets of big Pharma and the various other providers with no sign of a functioning market economy to keep the prices competitive.

Both could easily be true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 04:41:30 PM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 04:18:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 03:52:44 PM
Yes, you will be well into the realm of diminished returns. But you should not be seeing a worse outcome!

So, going by spend as a function of GDP, the USA should have the best (or one of the best) healthcare systems in the world. Instead it is very mediocre.

Yes, but that just suggests that they're well into the realm of diminished returns. Essentially people, individually and collectively, are throwing all the money they have at healthcare.

You do realise a dimished return means you still have a positive return yes?

The performance of the US system would indicate significant negative returns (or an extremely inefficient system) when compared to other first world countries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2020, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 03:01:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 10:48:09 AM
Healthcare less so, merely a restatement of the truism that the demand for healthcare is limitless and the more money you commit to it, the more money it will consume.

Yet by most headline figures - health care within the US is worse than most other 1st world countries - and those countries spend significantly lower proportions of GDP on healthcare.

Doesn't really change the fact that the demand for healthcare is limitless. They more money you have the more you will spend on it. And the more you spend on it, the more of this will be wasted.

My cousin lost a 4 year old to brain cancer.  After she exhausted her insurance, I think they had a $3M lifetime cap, she then went on Medicaid in order to get a $700K stem cell transplant. The numbers are simply staggering

Jesus. Don't even want to imagine what that was like for them. And having to deal with all the ridiculous insurance bullshit on top of watching your tiny child go through that. My condolences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2020, 05:27:39 PM
Quote from: five points on February 27, 2020, 04:18:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 03:52:44 PM
Yes, you will be well into the realm of diminished returns. But you should not be seeing a worse outcome!

So, going by spend as a function of GDP, the USA should have the best (or one of the best) healthcare systems in the world. Instead it is very mediocre.

Yes, but that just suggests that they're well into the realm of diminished returns. Essentially people, individually and collectively, are throwing all the money they have at healthcare.

That's a good point, and a topic of at least some debate, albeit not much publicly. Where do the doctors and families draw the lines when it comes to treatment for advanced cancer or keeping extremely sick patients with no hope of recovery alive for another few weeks or months?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2020, 05:30:01 PM
There needs to be some transparency and standardization of pricing for healthcare in the US.

It is literally all over the place, with orders of magnitude between costs in different states and even within.

And instead of fee-for-service, they should all be doing what the likes of the Mayo Clinic do and put doctors on salaries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 05:40:14 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/International_Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%25_GDP.png)


(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fdanmunro%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F06%2FTCFchart.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on February 27, 2020, 05:41:30 PM
Looks like 2006 data.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 27, 2020, 05:44:32 PM
The figure is about 17% now

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 05:46:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2020, 11:06:35 AM
The cost system of healthcare in the US is ridiculous and completely unpredictable, with astronomical ranges in what they charge for simple medicines, never mind procedures. People don't care until it personally bites them on the arse. You got charged 80 dollars for an aspirin? So what, the insurance company will pay them two under their particular negotiated rates and you're not on the hook for anything if you've got a 100% policy (although this will have massive premiums). Its all good though until the unpredictability hits and some doctor who is not covered under your policy (even though the clinic or hospital itself is) glances at your chart and throws down an invoice for five grand which you are then responsible for, even though you'd no clue it was coming. Doesn't matter that you were horribly ill or injured and your family desperate, you should have been checking every medical professional who entered the room to make sure you were still in network during your stay. And god help you if you have to go out of network, or worse, get caught with either no insurance or insufficient coverage for what you need. Hope you've got a handy hundred grand lying around to pay for that surgery you unexpectedly need or even more for the cancer treatment. Just bring the deed to your house with you, just in case. Assuming you own a house.

Yup. USAian healthcare is a racket. It's legalized extortion. Only in America is there an entire industry built around denying healthcare coverage. In a normal country you go to see the doctor and there might be one or two clerical staff arranging appointments. In the USA there's a lot more clerical staff and they have to spend time on the phone talking to these other people to confirm or deny that you're covered, to calculate how much they're going to cover, and how much of the bill you're going to foot yourself. Even the Soviet Union could never have come up with such an inefficient and convoluted system as part of their make-work programs.

In the UK you just go in and get your treatment, because everybody's covered and there's no need to check anything. There couldn't be anything simpler.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 05:48:33 PM
Yeah, this data is still not up to date but the trend is unmistakable with the USA pulling away from the pack in terms of inefficiency:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Health_Care_Cost_as_Percentage_of_GDP.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 05:49:37 PM
Here we go:

(https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/Healthcare-costs-in-the-US-have-increased-drastically-over-the-past-several-decades.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 27, 2020, 05:54:31 PM
$1700 a month for family of four 2 kids under 12 100% covered .
Is that extortion I don't know I've been paying it for so long .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on February 27, 2020, 06:19:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 05:49:37 PM
Here we go:

(https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/Healthcare-costs-in-the-US-have-increased-drastically-over-the-past-several-decades.jpg)

Good God, this is insane. We would have been safer sticking with the 2006 graph.  :(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 06:36:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 27, 2020, 05:54:31 PM
$1700 a month for family of four 2 kids under 12 100% covered .
Is that extortion I don't know I've been paying it for so long .

$1700 a month.
$20,400 a year

Assume a wage of $50k a year for each taxpayer (dunno if that is reflective for you or not, but we'll run with it). $50k USD = £38.5k GBP or thereabouts.


In the UK, that would mean out of a salary of 2x£38.5k, you are paying 2x£8.75k in income tax (= 2x $11.4k).
In the US, that same couple on $50k/year each would be paying $8k of income tax each a year.


So, here - the married couple are paying equivalent of $23k in taxes - which goes toward many things as well as the NHS.

Over there, the married couple are paying $16k in taxes - but then also paying $20.4k a year in health insurance. The health insurance alone is almost equal the income tax within the UK.

OK - I'm not including sales tax/VAT in this, but say the delta is ~10% between UK and USA, that is a further $7.7k (3.85k each).
UK total tax = $31k
US total tax & health = $36.4k


You folks are being utterly f**king rinsed and you are too intransigent in your ideologies to see it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 27, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 06:36:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 27, 2020, 05:54:31 PM
$1700 a month for family of four 2 kids under 12 100% covered .
Is that extortion I don't know I've been paying it for so long .

$1700 a month.
$20,400 a year

Assume a wage of $50k a year for each taxpayer (dunno if that is reflective for you or not, but we'll run with it). $50k USD = £38.5k GBP or thereabouts.


In the UK, that would mean out of a salary of 2x£38.5k, you are paying 2x£8.75k in income tax (= 2x $11.4k).
In the US, that same couple on $50k/year each would be paying $8k of income tax each a year.


So, here - the married couple are paying equivalent of $23k in taxes - which goes toward many things as well as the NHS.

Over there, the married couple are paying $16k in taxes - but then also paying $20.4k a year in health insurance. The health insurance alone is almost equal the income tax within the UK.



You folks are being utterly f**king rinsed and you are too intransigent in your ideologies to see it.

Your numbers are way off

Average teacher in my town makes over $82K per year so a husband and wife would combined make close to $170K. Add in coaching a team or running a summer camp or tutoring program and they're closer to making $200K combined (with access to the best hospitals and doctors in the world)

https://www.masslive.com/news/2017/12/the_highest_paying_massachuset.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Your numbers are way off

Was basing it on the average wage in the US being ~$38k a year. :shrugs:
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 27, 2020, 09:59:32 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Your numbers are way off

Was basing it on the average wage in the US being ~$38k a year. :shrugs:
in sf Bay Area where I live  117k is low income for a family 82k for an individual based on median incomes of the area ,country wide its 17 and 25 k
The cost of living in California is out of control .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 27, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Your numbers are way off

Was basing it on the average wage in the US being ~$38k a year. :shrugs:


Maybe you should live here for 20/30 years before you start "educating" us on how our healthcare system works

Someone earning $34 K per year in Boston is probably on Masshealth and paying next to nothing for their healthcare


Nationally:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kff.org/health-reform/fact-sheet/aca-open-enrollment-if-you-are-low-income/amp/

In general, you may be eligible for tax credits to lower your premium if you are single and your annual 2020 income is between $12,490 to $49,960 or if your household income is between $21,330 to $85,320 for a family of three (the lower income limits are higher in states that expanded Medicaid).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 10:14:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
Maybe you should live here for 20/30 years before you start "educating" us on how our healthcare system works

It doesn't work.

The money pumped in compared to the return received doesn't lie.



Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
Someone earning $34 K per year in Boston is probably on Masshealth and paying next to nothing for their healthcare

So the average wage is more or less already receiving 100% publically funded healthcare?

and you cannot still see the numbers not adding up?

At this point - if you don't pause for a second and think about that for a minute or two - then there is little point continuing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 11:40:26 PM
It's like talking to a brick wall, isn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 12:01:01 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 10:14:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
Maybe you should live here for 20/30 years before you start "educating" us on how our healthcare system works

It doesn't work.

The money pumped in compared to the return received doesn't lie.



Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
Someone earning $34 K per year in Boston is probably on Masshealth and paying next to nothing for their healthcare

So the average wage is more or less already receiving 100% publically funded healthcare?

and you cannot still see the numbers not adding up?

At this point - if you don't pause for a second and think about that for a minute or two - then there is little point continuing.

The numbers you quote are absolutely meaningless and not based on reality.  The average family are paying nowhere near what you state they are paying as a percentage of their total income if they have health insurance through their employer (which is what most people have)

I already showed you what teachers make

Here's what prison officers make......and it's not $50K

http://cthrupayroll.mass.gov/#!/year/2018/full_time_employees,others/pay1,pay2,pay3,pay4/explore/0-0-0-0-0/department_division/DEPARTMENT+OF+CORRECTION+(DOC)/0--0-6-1/trans_no
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 05:05:36 AM
Share of income spent on overall healthcare costs by income decile:

Top 10%: 3.5% of income
Ninth 10%: 5.4%
Eighth 10%: 6.5%
Seventh 10%: 6.9%
Sixth 10%: 7.9%
Fifth 10%: 10%
Fourth 10%: 12.4%
Third 10%: 14%
Second 10%: 17.1%
Lowest 10%: 35%

Source (https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2019/05/02/health-care-costs)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2020, 05:17:21 AM
$7,200 a year for me and the wife in California
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 28, 2020, 08:21:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 12:01:01 AM

The numbers you quote are absolutely meaningless and not based on reality. 
I already showed you what teachers make

Here's what prison officers make......and it's not $50K

?!?

What the genuine fúck are you trying to prove by sending me the salaries of two roles?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/how-much-americans-earn-at-every-age.html
Median is $56k per household

https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/average-income-in-us-14852178
Median is $49k per person

[dunno if the two above are contradictory, don't care to delve into it]

(https://135706-409518-2-raikfcquaxqncofqfm.stackpathdns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/median-income-by-top-deciles.png)

So the use of $50k certainly appears to be more based on reality than two disparate figures which represent a very small section of the populace.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
LOL-you still don't get it

If you're making the average or median wage, you're either getting it free or getting it heavily subsidized. That's how poor your benchmark is

Averages mean absolutely nothing over here because of the enormous disparities that exist

As I have shown you a husband and wife (teacher/prison guard) in MA will be pulling in $150-200K and have excellent coverage and access to the best doctors in the world

The system is completely screwed up and is unsustainable, but most people with employer based coverage  are quite happy because they have great coverage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 28, 2020, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
LOL-you still don't get it

If you're making the average or median wage, you're either getting it free or getting it heavily subsidized. That's how poor your benchmark is

The system is completely screwed up and is unsustainable, but most people with employer based coverage  are quite happy because they have great coverage

Stop. Listen to what you yourself are saying.

Do you not realise that the inefficiency* of it all means you are paying (i)more tax to cover the subsidized folk (Who it would appear comprise the vast majority) & (ii)losing wages as that is going toward the inflated price of your health coverage? (that coverage doesn't really come for "free")

*inefficiency in terms of value for money for you - not inefficiency in terms of generating profit for pharma!


The problems within the US system are not mostly about how its paid for - more how all the disparate approaches allow for hideous markup when it comes to that system paying out.

The philosophical differences of funding of Obamacare/Medicare/Medicaid could mostly be worked around if the Federal government mandated standardised contracts (with standardised prices) for drugs & treatments nationwide.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 11:15:21 AM
But it's still 10000000 better than the "free" healthcare you have in Ireland and the UK
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 28, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 11:15:21 AM
But it's still 10000000 better than the "free" healthcare you have in Ireland and the UK

The stats on life expectancy, infant mortality etc indicate its clearly not.
Then you factor in the additional money being pumped into the US system and that performance comparison looks even worse.


https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/#item-le_total-life-expectancy-at-birth-in-years-1980-2017_dec-2019-update

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/infant-and-neonatal-mortality

You can see in both the above, that the UK & Ireland are far from perfect - but both are significantly better than the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 28, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 11:15:21 AM
But it's still 10000000 better than the "free" healthcare you have in Ireland and the UK

The stats on life expectancy, infant mortality etc indicate its clearly not.
Then you factor in the additional money being pumped into the US system and that performance comparison looks even worse.


https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/#item-le_total-life-expectancy-at-birth-in-years-1980-2017_dec-2019-update

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/infant-and-neonatal-mortality

You can see in both the above, that the UK & Ireland are far from perfect - but both are significantly better than the US.

LOL-believe whatever you want. Averages mean absolutely nothing in a country with such regional disparities.


On a side note, I had almost an hour long conversation with this gentleman last year

https://www.bidmc.org/research/research-by-department/medicine/gastroenterology/research-teams/lamont-lab

Many of Irelands best (Gastro) consultants spent their residency in Harvard trained under this guy

He speaks to these guys several times a year at conferences and would vehemently disagree with your comparisons between the health systems  and is abhorrent at the prospect of socialized medicine.

But of course , you know better than him because you were able to google some articles with average statistics that are meaningless

Congratulations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2020, 02:39:56 PM
US life expectancy is lower and falling .


https://www.ft.com/content/2501e154-4789-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

The richest 1 per cent of Americans now account for more than half the value of equities owned by US households, according to Goldman Sachs. Since 1990, the wealthiest have bought a net $1.2tn in company stakes, while the rest of the population has sold more than $1tn.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/02/24/this-chart-is-best-explanation-middle-class-finances-you-will-ever-see/%3foutputType=amp

n 1985, the typical [American] male worker could cover a family of four's major expenditures (housing, healthcare, transportation, education) on 30 weeks of salary. By 2018 it took 53 weeks.


The US is a plutocracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 28, 2020, 03:10:17 PM
Pfffft that's only averages... everyone I know is rich so you don't know what you're talking about!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 28, 2020, 03:10:17 PM
Pfffft that's only averages... everyone I know is rich so you don't know what you're talking about!!

Averages smaverages

The average teacher in my town makes $82K

My wife's nephew just got accepted into the training program to be a prison officer-no college degree-and will be making $100K within 3 years

With a larger percentage of the population now over 65 and not working full time and relying on retirement income, what does that do to the averages? These over 65s  often have no mortgages, no college loans, no car payments and are probably paying next to nothing for healthcare.

https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/Harvard_JCHS_Housing_Americas_Older_Adults_2018_1.pdf

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on February 28, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
The average American has one testicle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: five points on February 28, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
The average American has one testicle.
thats only in a certain lower Manhattan neighborhood .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:00:54 PM
I never told you guys about my friend who was on vacation in London-when his mother in Law fell and broker her hip. They're all pretty left leaning and we're singing the praises of the care she received under the NHS

That is until they arrived back in Boston and went to the doctor. Well the "free" surgery was a dogs dinner and whole thing had to be undone and redone. The poor woman hasn't been right since
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 28, 2020, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:00:54 PM
I never told you guys about my friend who was on vacation in London-when his mother in Law fell and broker her hip. They're all pretty left leaning and we're singing the praises of the care she received under the NHS

That is until they arrived back in Boston and went to the doctor. Well the "free" surgery was a dogs dinner and whole thing had to be undone and redone. The poor woman hasn't been right since

Was it really though?? How do we know her local doctor wasn't pissed off he missed out on the big payday so told them he had to redo it at 7 times the cost?

Averages smaverages
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 28, 2020, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:00:54 PM
I never told you guys about my friend who was on vacation in London-when his mother in Law fell and broker her hip. They're all pretty left leaning and we're singing the praises of the care she received under the NHS

That is until they arrived back in Boston and went to the doctor. Well the "free" surgery was a dogs dinner and whole thing had to be undone and redone. The poor woman hasn't been right since

Was it really though?? How do we know her local doctor wasn't pissed off he missed out on the big payday so told them he had to redo it at 7 times the cost?

Averages smaverages

LOL

She was crippled with pain and couldn't walk.

So now you're suggesting that one of the pre-eminent orthopedic surgeons in Boston would put an 80 year old through an unnecessary surgery to run up a bill.....don't think so, but believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 04:26:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 28, 2020, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:00:54 PM
I never told you guys about my friend who was on vacation in London-when his mother in Law fell and broker her hip. They're all pretty left leaning and we're singing the praises of the care she received under the NHS

That is until they arrived back in Boston and went to the doctor. Well the "free" surgery was a dogs dinner and whole thing had to be undone and redone. The poor woman hasn't been right since

Was it really though?? How do we know her local doctor wasn't pissed off he missed out on the big payday so told them he had to redo it at 7 times the cost?

Averages smaverages
i read that nurses are going to start doing some surgeries in the uk now to try lessen the burden on doctors , maybe she got one of them .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:29:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 04:26:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 28, 2020, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:00:54 PM
I never told you guys about my friend who was on vacation in London-when his mother in Law fell and broker her hip. They're all pretty left leaning and we're singing the praises of the care she received under the NHS

That is until they arrived back in Boston and went to the doctor. Well the "free" surgery was a dogs dinner and whole thing had to be undone and redone. The poor woman hasn't been right since

Was it really though?? How do we know her local doctor wasn't pissed off he missed out on the big payday so told them he had to redo it at 7 times the cost?

Averages smaverages
i read that nurses are going to start doing some surgeries in the uk now to try lessen the burden on doctors , maybe she got one of them .

Maybe this buck did the surgery

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/clueless-doctor-tried-to-take-blood-from-patient-with-scalpel-29837569.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 04:41:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
LOL-you still don't get it

If you're making the average or median wage, you're either getting it free or getting it heavily subsidized. That's how poor your benchmark is

Averages mean absolutely nothing over here because of the enormous disparities that exist

As I have shown you a husband and wife (teacher/prison guard) in MA will be pulling in $150-200K and have excellent coverage and access to the best doctors in the world

The system is completely screwed up and is unsustainable, but most people with employer based coverage  are quite happy because they have great coverage

Go back to statistics class. The median is by far a better measure than the mean because it is less skewed by outliers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: five points on February 28, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
The average American has one testicle.
thats only in a certain lower Manhattan neighborhood .

Homophobia .... nice
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 04:44:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 28, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 11:15:21 AM
But it's still 10000000 better than the "free" healthcare you have in Ireland and the UK

The stats on life expectancy, infant mortality etc indicate its clearly not.
Then you factor in the additional money being pumped into the US system and that performance comparison looks even worse.


https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/#item-le_total-life-expectancy-at-birth-in-years-1980-2017_dec-2019-update

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/infant-and-neonatal-mortality

You can see in both the above, that the UK & Ireland are far from perfect - but both are significantly better than the US.

LOL-believe whatever you want. Averages mean absolutely nothing in a country with such regional disparities.


On a side note, I had almost an hour long conversation with this gentleman last year

https://www.bidmc.org/research/research-by-department/medicine/gastroenterology/research-teams/lamont-lab

Many of Irelands best (Gastro) consultants spent their residency in Harvard trained under this guy

He speaks to these guys several times a year at conferences and would vehemently disagree with your comparisons between the health systems  and is abhorrent at the prospect of socialized medicine.

But of course , you know better than him because you were able to google some articles with average statistics that are meaningless

Congratulations

Argumentum ad verecundiam
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 04:46:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:00:54 PM
I never told you guys about my friend who was on vacation in London-when his mother in Law fell and broker her hip. They're all pretty left leaning and we're singing the praises of the care she received under the NHS

That is until they arrived back in Boston and went to the doctor. Well the "free" surgery was a dogs dinner and whole thing had to be undone and redone. The poor woman hasn't been right since

No wonder you hate data so much. You have an unverified anecdote for everything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:51:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 04:46:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 04:00:54 PM
I never told you guys about my friend who was on vacation in London-when his mother in Law fell and broker her hip. They're all pretty left leaning and we're singing the praises of the care she received under the NHS

That is until they arrived back in Boston and went to the doctor. Well the "free" surgery was a dogs dinner and whole thing had to be undone and redone. The poor woman hasn't been right since

No wonder you hate data so much. You have an unverified anecdote for everything.

It actually happened, as did the conversation with the Harvard professor.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 04:58:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: five points on February 28, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
The average American has one testicle.
thats only in a certain lower Manhattan neighborhood .

Homophobia .... nice
?? His username? Smarten up kid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 28, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Doesn't looks it's Bernie's year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/20/democratic-convention-bernie-sanders-superdelegates-nominee
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on February 28, 2020, 05:43:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 04:58:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: five points on February 28, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
The average American has one testicle.
thats only in a certain lower Manhattan neighborhood .

Homophobia .... nice
?? His username? Smarten up kid.

Doesn't take too much these for someone to call "homophobia!". Somebody missed the obvious point that half of Americans have no testicles at all...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 28, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Doesn't looks it's Bernie's year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/20/democratic-convention-bernie-sanders-superdelegates-nominee

I've seen it said in Twitter that if he wins the "popular" vote in the primaries there's no way they can deny him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2020, 05:47:15 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 28, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Doesn't looks it's Bernie's year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/20/democratic-convention-bernie-sanders-superdelegates-nominee

He knew the score beforehand.

And he is as free as everyone else is to try to woo both pledged AND superdelegates after the first round.

In reality, I would think if he is close to a majority of pledged delegates, he'll win it on the second go.

If he is at 30% or something, then I'd imagine they'll coalesce around one of the more moderate candidates.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2020, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 28, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Doesn't looks it's Bernie's year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/20/democratic-convention-bernie-sanders-superdelegates-nominee

I've seen it said in Twitter that if he wins the "popular" vote in the primaries there's no way they can deny him.

What does "win the popular vote" mean?

A majority? Or just the most.

Unless its the former or close to it, forget it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 28, 2020, 06:00:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2020, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 28, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Doesn't looks it's Bernie's year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/20/democratic-convention-bernie-sanders-superdelegates-nominee

I've seen it said in Twitter that if he wins the "popular" vote in the primaries there's no way they can deny him.

What does "win the popular vote" mean?

A majority? Or just the most.

Unless its the former or close to it, forget it.

Majority......that's what they're claiming. Bernie bro's going to burn Milwaukee to the ground if they cheat him out of it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2020, 06:03:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 06:00:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2020, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 28, 2020, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 28, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Doesn't looks it's Bernie's year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/20/democratic-convention-bernie-sanders-superdelegates-nominee

I've seen it said in Twitter that if he wins the "popular" vote in the primaries there's no way they can deny him.

What does "win the popular vote" mean?

A majority? Or just the most.

Unless its the former or close to it, forget it.

Majority......that's what they're claiming. Bernie bro's going to burn Milwaukee to the ground if they cheat him out of it

Cheat?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 06:12:21 PM
Quote from: five points on February 28, 2020, 05:43:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 04:58:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 28, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 28, 2020, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: five points on February 28, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
The average American has one testicle.
thats only in a certain lower Manhattan neighborhood .

Homophobia .... nice
?? His username? Smarten up kid.

Doesn't take too much these for someone to call "homophobia!". Somebody missed the obvious point that half of Americans have no testicles at all...
i look forward to his apology
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 28, 2020, 06:28:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

According to the stable genius, the 15% drop in the stock market is because of the Democrats and the media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:36:01 PM
Yes. Did you hear about how he blamed Monday and Tuesday's losses on the Democratic debate that happened on Tuesday night? That's no joke.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2020, 08:26:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:36:01 PM
Yes. Did you hear about how he blamed Monday and Tuesday's losses on the Democratic debate that happened on Tuesday night? That's no joke.

Will the Dems get the blame for the funding cuts to the CDC, their pandemic planning and their testing labs if they're found wanting in the response to this outbreak?

Perhaps Mike Pence can pray that it won't come to that.

Apparently Rush Limbaugh has been telling his listeners "its just the common cold folks!" and that's its all a conspiracy to bring down Trump.

I guess he's a little confused by the fact that some causes of the common cold are also coronaviruses.

In other right wing science news, a man-eating tiger and a domestic kitten are both "just cats".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 28, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
Rush is so wrong about the corona virus that even the lunatics at Free Republic criticized him for it

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3819088/posts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2020, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: dec on February 28, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
Rush is so wrong about the corona virus that even the lunatics at Free Republic criticized him for it

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3819088/posts

;D :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 02, 2020, 11:25:08 AM
I know, let's antagonise Trump supporters. What harm can that do?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2020, 09:49:02 PM
Klobuchar is out

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/newsirelandgeneralelection/klobuchar-ends-campaign-for-president-endorses-biden

Widely regarded as potentially strong general election contender against Trump, Klobuchar's centrist positions against Medicare for All and a Green New Deal put her out of step with the activist base that is more influential in party primaries and caucuses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 11:46:03 PM
I wonder if those odds are not just about electability. If Biden overtakes Sanders as the more likely nominee, it'll be interesting to see the effect that has on Biden's odds of beating Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2020, 01:25:26 AM
Expect Lindsay Graham to announce all kinds of Hunter Biden and Ukrainian election interference  investigations by the end of the week if Biden does well tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2020, 03:25:50 AM
Trump is betting on a strong economy to win.
Coronovirus is sand in his vaseline.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 03, 2020, 04:33:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 03, 2020, 03:25:50 AM
Trump is betting on a strong economy to win.
Coronovirus is sand in his vaseline.

Hence him trying to play it all down. Officials speak right in front of him saying that the number of infections is going to go up, and he comes to the mic and says the number is going to go down. It's almost like he thinks the stock market will just believe any sh1te he comes out with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 03, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 05:04:17 AM
Trump has dementia but the GOP need him
The run down to the election is going to be nuts.
if trump has dementia what does joe Biden have ? he can't get through a sentence without making a balls of something and that's the guy Bernie is going to get shafted for . Dementia is far from a laughing matter and joe should not be out there under that pressure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2020, 11:04:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 05:04:17 AM
Trump has dementia but the GOP need him
The run down to the election is going to be nuts.
if trump has dementia what does joe Biden have ? he can't get through a sentence without making a balls of something and that's the guy Bernie is going to get shafted for . Dementia is far from a laughing matter and joe should not be out there under that pressure.
I agree
Biden and Trump both seem to have dementia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 04, 2020, 07:34:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 03, 2020, 11:04:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 05:04:17 AM
Trump has dementia but the GOP need him
The run down to the election is going to be nuts.
if trump has dementia what does joe Biden have ? he can't get through a sentence without making a balls of something and that's the guy Bernie is going to get shafted for . Dementia is far from a laughing matter and joe should not be out there under that pressure.
I agree
Biden and Trump both seem to have dementia.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WqS4m-8B4IQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 04, 2020, 03:13:47 PM
Mike's gone... looks like it's Orange Don and Sleepy Joe!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2020, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 05:04:17 AM
Trump has dementia but the GOP need him
The run down to the election is going to be nuts.
if trump has dementia what does joe Biden have ? he can't get through a sentence without making a balls of something and that's the guy Bernie is going to get shafted for . Dementia is far from a laughing matter and joe should not be out there under that pressure.

Where is the evidence Bernie is going to get shafted?

Will I be shafting him when I hold my nose and vote for Biden in the NY primary? Biden is not my preferred choice, but Bernie IS my least-preferred.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2020, 04:54:20 PM
The US is a plutocracy. The Democratic Party is as corrupt as the GOP.

https://www.ft.com/content/43af1416-5493-11ea-90ad-25e377c0ee1f

...whether the 78-year-old billionaire can salvage his campaign, including through a stronger performance in the next debate on Tuesday, or whether, after spending more than $400m of his vast fortune so far

https://www.ft.com/content/73b3ebfe-5e21-11ea-8033-fa40a0d65a98

Lynn Forester de Rothschild, the wealthy Democratic donor, said that Mr Bloomberg has entered the race with "the best of intentions" but called on him to divert his resources to Mr Biden. "[Mr Bloomberg] is devoted to defeating Trump and [had] worried that Sanders and Biden could not do it. Biden has now rallied and found his connection to the American people," she added. "I hope that Mike will realise that his best role at this point is to use his vast resources to support Joe Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 04, 2020, 05:54:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2020, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 05:04:17 AM
Trump has dementia but the GOP need him
The run down to the election is going to be nuts.
if trump has dementia what does joe Biden have ? he can't get through a sentence without making a balls of something and that's the guy Bernie is going to get shafted for . Dementia is far from a laughing matter and joe should not be out there under that pressure.

Where is the evidence Bernie is going to get shafted?

Will I be shafting him when I hold my nose and vote for Biden in the NY primary? Biden is not my preferred choice, but Bernie IS my least-preferred.
the other candidates pulling out the day before Super Tuesday and backing Biden was a coincidence I suppose , vote for who you want to j70 it's a free country I'm sure Bernie won't take it personally. As a side note that guy from the young Turks ran for Congress in Los Angeles yesterday and got his arse handed to him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2020, 06:04:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2020, 04:54:20 PM
The US is a plutocracy. The Democratic Party is as corrupt as the GOP.

https://www.ft.com/content/43af1416-5493-11ea-90ad-25e377c0ee1f

...whether the 78-year-old billionaire can salvage his campaign, including through a stronger performance in the next debate on Tuesday, or whether, after spending more than $400m of his vast fortune so far

https://www.ft.com/content/73b3ebfe-5e21-11ea-8033-fa40a0d65a98

Lynn Forester de Rothschild, the wealthy Democratic donor, said that Mr Bloomberg has entered the race with "the best of intentions" but called on him to divert his resources to Mr Biden. "[Mr Bloomberg] is devoted to defeating Trump and [had] worried that Sanders and Biden could not do it. Biden has now rallied and found his connection to the American people," she added. "I hope that Mike will realise that his best role at this point is to use his vast resources to support Joe Biden.

Well he's pulled out now, so I hope he puts his money into something helpful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2020, 06:07:09 PM
Warren should have pulled out before Tuesday and backed Bernie, just like the establishment candidates pulled out and supported Biden. She split the progressive vote and will deserve some of the blame for undermining Sanders. Shame that MA votes on Super Tuesday. She probably wanted to see how she did in her own state.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2020, 06:13:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2020, 05:54:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2020, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 05:04:17 AM
Trump has dementia but the GOP need him
The run down to the election is going to be nuts.
if trump has dementia what does joe Biden have ? he can't get through a sentence without making a balls of something and that's the guy Bernie is going to get shafted for . Dementia is far from a laughing matter and joe should not be out there under that pressure.

Where is the evidence Bernie is going to get shafted?

Will I be shafting him when I hold my nose and vote for Biden in the NY primary? Biden is not my preferred choice, but Bernie IS my least-preferred.
the other candidates pulling out the day before Super Tuesday and backing Biden was a coincidence I suppose , vote for who you want to j70 it's a free country I'm sure Bernie won't take it personally. As a side note that guy from the young Turks ran for Congress in Los Angeles yesterday and got his arse handed to him .

The other candidates seeing the light after making absolutely no impact in SC and deciding against splitting the moderate vote any further is NOT cheating Sanders. It's simply acknowledging reality and something that has happened numerous times in other primaries, both Republican and Democratic, without whining, whether sincere or not, about one candidate or another getting fucked.

If anything, Bernie has benefited from the crowded field to date as he is far to the left of everyone else, with the arguable exception of Warren on healthcare, and has seen the moderate vote splintered among a rake of other contenders, none of whom could stand above the rest until SC gave Biden a second chance after a poor few months.

Of course, it suits the right, especially Trump, to claim Bernie is getting cheated, as he is the one they would like to face and depict as a horrible, monstrous, commie, anti-American extremist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 04, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2020, 06:13:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2020, 05:54:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2020, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 05:04:17 AM
Trump has dementia but the GOP need him
The run down to the election is going to be nuts.
if trump has dementia what does joe Biden have ? he can't get through a sentence without making a balls of something and that's the guy Bernie is going to get shafted for . Dementia is far from a laughing matter and joe should not be out there under that pressure.

Where is the evidence Bernie is going to get shafted?

Will I be shafting him when I hold my nose and vote for Biden in the NY primary? Biden is not my preferred choice, but Bernie IS my least-preferred.
the other candidates pulling out the day before Super Tuesday and backing Biden was a coincidence I suppose , vote for who you want to j70 it's a free country I'm sure Bernie won't take it personally. As a side note that guy from the young Turks ran for Congress in Los Angeles yesterday and got his arse handed to him .

The other candidates seeing the light after making absolutely no impact in SC and deciding against splitting the moderate vote any further is NOT cheating Sanders. It's simply acknowledging reality and something that has happened numerous times in other primaries, both Republican and Democratic, without whining, whether sincere or not, about one candidate or another getting fucked.

If anything, Bernie has benefited from the crowded field to date as he is far to the left of everyone else, with the arguable exception of Warren on healthcare, and has seen the moderate vote splintered among a rake of other contenders, none of whom could stand above the rest until SC gave Biden a second chance after a poor few months.

Of course, it suits the right, especially Trump, to claim Bernie is getting cheated, as he is the one they would like to face and depict as a horrible, monstrous, commie, anti-American extremist.
if there was a straight up popular vote who would win ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2020, 07:17:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2020, 06:13:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2020, 05:54:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2020, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2020, 05:04:17 AM
Trump has dementia but the GOP need him
The run down to the election is going to be nuts.
if trump has dementia what does joe Biden have ? he can't get through a sentence without making a balls of something and that's the guy Bernie is going to get shafted for . Dementia is far from a laughing matter and joe should not be out there under that pressure.

Where is the evidence Bernie is going to get shafted?

Will I be shafting him when I hold my nose and vote for Biden in the NY primary? Biden is not my preferred choice, but Bernie IS my least-preferred.
the other candidates pulling out the day before Super Tuesday and backing Biden was a coincidence I suppose , vote for who you want to j70 it's a free country I'm sure Bernie won't take it personally. As a side note that guy from the young Turks ran for Congress in Los Angeles yesterday and got his arse handed to him .

The other candidates seeing the light after making absolutely no impact in SC and deciding against splitting the moderate vote any further is NOT cheating Sanders. It's simply acknowledging reality and something that has happened numerous times in other primaries, both Republican and Democratic, without whining, whether sincere or not, about one candidate or another getting fucked.

If anything, Bernie has benefited from the crowded field to date as he is far to the left of everyone else, with the arguable exception of Warren on healthcare, and has seen the moderate vote splintered among a rake of other contenders, none of whom could stand above the rest until SC gave Biden a second chance after a poor few months.

Of course, it suits the right, especially Trump, to claim Bernie is getting cheated, as he is the one they would like to face and depict as a horrible, monstrous, commie, anti-American extremist.
if there was a straight up popular vote who would win ?

Bernie v Biden - Biden
Bernie v Trump - Trump
Biden v Trump - not sure
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 04, 2020, 07:21:15 PM
Bernie v Biden
Trump beats Bernie but he might struggle to beat joe if joe can keep it together
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2020, 08:14:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2020, 07:21:15 PM
Bernie v Biden
Trump beats Bernie but he might struggle to beat joe if joe can keep it together

Biden would be more likely to take back places like PA and Michigan.

But, that's if he can stand toe to toe with a dirty brawler like Trump and prevail over whatever is coming, bullshit or otherwise, vis a vis his son in the Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 04, 2020, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2020, 06:07:09 PM
Warren should have pulled out before Tuesday and backed Bernie, just like the establishment candidates pulled out and supported Biden. She split the progressive vote and will deserve some of the blame for undermining Sanders. Shame that MA votes on Super Tuesday. She probably wanted to see how she did in her own state.

Warren would have found it difficult to win MA at the best of times (I have lived here for the past 12 years and for 23 of the 30 years I have been in the States)

(1). Mayor of Boston is a personal friend of Biden and while maybe publicly didn't campaign for him, we all know what happens behind closed doors

(2) Unions were all for Biden (because Bernie and Warren were going to abolish their healthcare)

(3) Enormous student population which would have been for Bernie

(4) Independents like me who detest Warren, can pull a Democratic ballot in the primary and vote against her

The goal of folks like me was to undermine her electability by helping defeat her in her home state. We never imagined she would come in third
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 07, 2020, 08:48:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2020, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2020, 06:07:09 PM
Warren should have pulled out before Tuesday and backed Bernie, just like the establishment candidates pulled out and supported Biden. She split the progressive vote and will deserve some of the blame for undermining Sanders. Shame that MA votes on Super Tuesday. She probably wanted to see how she did in her own state.

Warren would have found it difficult to win MA at the best of times (I have lived here for the past 12 years and for 23 of the 30 years I have been in the States)

(1). Mayor of Boston is a personal friend of Biden and while maybe publicly didn't campaign for him, we all know what happens behind closed doors

(2) Unions were all for Biden (because Bernie and Warren were going to abolish their healthcare)

(3) Enormous student population which would have been for Bernie

(4) Independents like me who detest Warren, can pull a Democratic ballot in the primary and vote against her

The goal of folks like me was to undermine her electability by helping defeat her in her home state. We never imagined she would come in third

At this point I've become somewhat accustomed to the sheer vitriol that spews from the American right, but I have to ask why you "detest" Warren.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2020, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 07, 2020, 08:48:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2020, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2020, 06:07:09 PM
Warren should have pulled out before Tuesday and backed Bernie, just like the establishment candidates pulled out and supported Biden. She split the progressive vote and will deserve some of the blame for undermining Sanders. Shame that MA votes on Super Tuesday. She probably wanted to see how she did in her own state.

Warren would have found it difficult to win MA at the best of times (I have lived here for the past 12 years and for 23 of the 30 years I have been in the States)

(1). Mayor of Boston is a personal friend of Biden and while maybe publicly didn't campaign for him, we all know what happens behind closed doors

(2) Unions were all for Biden (because Bernie and Warren were going to abolish their healthcare)

(3) Enormous student population which would have been for Bernie

(4) Independents like me who detest Warren, can pull a Democratic ballot in the primary and vote against her

The goal of folks like me was to undermine her electability by helping defeat her in her home state. We never imagined she would come in third

At this point I've become somewhat accustomed to the sheer vitriol that spews from the American right, but I have to ask why you "detest" Warren.

Independents are not part of the American right

I can't stand Senator Warren because she is a liar, a fraud and a hypocrite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 08, 2020, 04:13:05 PMI can't stand Senator Warren because she is a liar, a fraud and a hypocrite.

Ah, but really, how many politicians aren't liars, frauds or hypocrites?

Unfortunately democracy at that level tend to attract the wrong kinds of people. Particularly when its so money orientated as within the US (not that UK or Ireland are beacons in this respect either!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 06:16:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 08, 2020, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 07, 2020, 08:48:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2020, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2020, 06:07:09 PM
Warren should have pulled out before Tuesday and backed Bernie, just like the establishment candidates pulled out and supported Biden. She split the progressive vote and will deserve some of the blame for undermining Sanders. Shame that MA votes on Super Tuesday. She probably wanted to see how she did in her own state.

Warren would have found it difficult to win MA at the best of times (I have lived here for the past 12 years and for 23 of the 30 years I have been in the States)

(1). Mayor of Boston is a personal friend of Biden and while maybe publicly didn't campaign for him, we all know what happens behind closed doors

(2) Unions were all for Biden (because Bernie and Warren were going to abolish their healthcare)

(3) Enormous student population which would have been for Bernie

(4) Independents like me who detest Warren, can pull a Democratic ballot in the primary and vote against her

The goal of folks like me was to undermine her electability by helping defeat her in her home state. We never imagined she would come in third

At this point I've become somewhat accustomed to the sheer vitriol that spews from the American right, but I have to ask why you "detest" Warren.

Independents are not part of the American right

I can't stand Senator Warren because she is a liar, a fraud and a hypocrite.

How so?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2020, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 06:16:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 08, 2020, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 07, 2020, 08:48:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 04, 2020, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2020, 06:07:09 PM
Warren should have pulled out before Tuesday and backed Bernie, just like the establishment candidates pulled out and supported Biden. She split the progressive vote and will deserve some of the blame for undermining Sanders. Shame that MA votes on Super Tuesday. She probably wanted to see how she did in her own state.

Warren would have found it difficult to win MA at the best of times (I have lived here for the past 12 years and for 23 of the 30 years I have been in the States)

(1). Mayor of Boston is a personal friend of Biden and while maybe publicly didn't campaign for him, we all know what happens behind closed doors

(2) Unions were all for Biden (because Bernie and Warren were going to abolish their healthcare)

(3) Enormous student population which would have been for Bernie

(4) Independents like me who detest Warren, can pull a Democratic ballot in the primary and vote against her

The goal of folks like me was to undermine her electability by helping defeat her in her home state. We never imagined she would come in third

At this point I've become somewhat accustomed to the sheer vitriol that spews from the American right, but I have to ask why you "detest" Warren.

Independents are not part of the American right

I can't stand Senator Warren because she is a liar, a fraud and a hypocrite.

How so?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/21/pathological-liar-elizabeth-warren-thinks-presiden/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2020, 04:45:21 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/08/complacent-governments-will-torn-shreds-coronavirus-quake-reshapes/

the jury is also out on the US. It has allowed a surveillance failure. The fight is being led by a man who persisted in calling it a "hoax" long after it was already spreading in Washington state.

That infamous mantra will ring down through the ages as the defining epithet of the Trump presidency.

Barely in office, Donald Trump slashed the global health security funds of the Center for Disease Control (CDC) by 80pc and closed the pandemic machinery at the White House. His first reflex when cases escalated was to try to spin the message. All must be well so long as Wall Street is rising. But the markets were wrong. On matters of science, it is better to heed scientists.

Whether cuts to the CDC contributed to the fiasco of a faulty reagent sent out to labs will be combed over in the political post mortem, as will the long delay before permitting others to step into the breach. The fact is that the US tested almost nobody until early March. By then it was too late. It was the fatal missed window. Call it "Wuhan II" – American style.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on March 09, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Eamonn, if he puts Warren on his ticket, I'll be astounded. She is more dynamic, more articulate, and more intelligent. No president wants a brighter sidekick than the lead dog.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 11, 2020, 11:43:32 AM
Decided to follow Bill Mitchell on twitter just to get a perspective of someone who woul dbe at the forefront of the right in the US.

I had to unfollow after a couple of days JESUS CHRIST the guys is a sociopath!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2020, 11:57:46 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 11, 2020, 11:43:32 AM
Decided to follow Bill Mitchell on twitter just to get a perspective of someone who woul dbe at the forefront of the right in the US.

I had to unfollow after a couple of days JESUS CHRIST the guys is a sociopath!!

Never heard of him before you posted this.

But I looked at his twitter feed.

COVID-19 is all a media-led "hit-job on the Trump economy".

All righty then. :o

Someone should tell the populist, right wing, Trump-sympathetic Italian government they're hurting the Dear Leader. The Iranians and Chinese too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 11, 2020, 12:18:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2020, 11:57:46 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 11, 2020, 11:43:32 AM
Decided to follow Bill Mitchell on twitter just to get a perspective of someone who woul dbe at the forefront of the right in the US.

I had to unfollow after a couple of days JESUS CHRIST the guys is a sociopath!!

Never heard of him before you posted this.

But I looked at his twitter feed.

COVID-19 is all a media-led "hit-job on the Trump economy".

All righty then. :o

Someone should tell the populist, right wing, Trump-sympathetic Italian government they're hurting the Dear Leader. The Iranians and Chinese too.

Bananas stuff I saw somewhere a guy saying if you want an insight into the Trump voter psyche to follow Mitchell... it's not a good place to be!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 04:59:53 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42950587

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/E092/production/_99909475_gdp_640_chart_v5_nc.png)

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/6B62/production/_99909472_per_capita_640_chart_v4-nc.png)


We'll see shortly just how much "value for money" the US are getting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 05:10:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

Does that mean there are two other people aside from Trump or Biden more likely to become president in the 2020 than Sanders? Who on earth are they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:12:28 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 04:59:53 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42950587

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/E092/production/_99909475_gdp_640_chart_v5_nc.png)

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/6B62/production/_99909472_per_capita_640_chart_v4-nc.png)


We'll see shortly just how much "value for money" the US are getting.

And that's before we take into account the "work until you drop dead" culture. No statutory sick pay, no paid sick leave, people pressured to work even when they're sick because they don't have enough sick days saved up. This is going to be a shit-show. The US is probably the most vulnerable rich country to something like this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 08:31:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 05:10:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

Does that mean there are two other people aside from Trump or Biden more likely to become president in the 2020 than Sanders? Who on earth are they?

Deval Patrick: 50/1
Howard Schultz: 50/1 (Oooooooh isn't that nice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-IOrRqLw0g))

To be fair, Bernie's probably 50/1 too, that website I'm using only shows the top 4 but I don't know what their criteria are for a tie-breaker.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/3 (0.2/1)
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 08:17:04 PM
15/3 = 5/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 12, 2020, 08:42:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
The trend is unmistakable.

Far too early for that.


Off the wall, but all 3 of them could catch the Corona virus and be gone before the election happens!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 08:52:11 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 08:17:04 PM
15/3 = 5/1

Nope.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 08:58:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 08:52:11 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 08:17:04 PM
15/3 = 5/1

Nope.

You might want to check your calculator
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 09:10:38 PM
You might want to look at this:

https://mybettingsites.co.uk/learn/betting-odds-explained/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 09:13:46 PM
no - I'm ok thanks ... I know how odds work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on March 12, 2020, 10:25:37 PM
I'm pretty sure your odds are off eamon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
My understanding is that betting odds don't work like mathematical fractions. If they meant 5/1, why wouldn't they have just said 5/1? If it were 5/1 then that'd mean Biden is less likely to win than he was before when he was 13/10.

Have I missed something obvious?  I've been known to do that sometimes...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 13, 2020, 12:20:06 AM
Where did you get the 15/3 from anyways?

15/3 means you win $15 from a $3 bet. Therefore a $1 bet would win you $5 .... so 15/3 =5/1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: John Martin on March 13, 2020, 01:52:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 08:52:11 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 08:17:04 PM
15/3 = 5/1

Nope.

:o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 04:06:50 AM
I'm getting the odds from here:

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics

15/3 musta been a typo, it's now saying 15/13.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 04:55:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Your numbers are way off

Was basing it on the average wage in the US being ~$38k a year. :shrugs:


Maybe you should live here for 20/30 years before you start "educating" us on how our healthcare system works

Someone earning $34 K per year in Boston is probably on Masshealth and paying next to nothing for their healthcare


Nationally:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kff.org/health-reform/fact-sheet/aca-open-enrollment-if-you-are-low-income/amp/

In general, you may be eligible for tax credits to lower your premium if you are single and your annual 2020 income is between $12,490 to $49,960 or if your household income is between $21,330 to $85,320 for a family of three (the lower income limits are higher in states that expanded Medicaid).

You don't have to be in the US to know that something that cost 5% of GDP now costs almost 18% of GDP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 13, 2020, 08:09:46 PM
Trump is giving a live speech from the Rose Garden at the White House to declare a national emergency.

Summary
Trump: Everything I did was great
Various CEOs: Our companies are great and thank you Mr President
Pence: Spends his entire speech kissing Trumps ass
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 01:42:01 AM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2020, 08:09:46 PM
Trump is giving a live speech from the Rose Garden at the White House to declare a national emergency.

Summary
Trump: Everything I did was great
Various CEOs: Our companies are great and thank you Mr President
Pence: Spends his entire speech kissing Trumps ass

The flowchart was unbelievable  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 12:07:10 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/peter-wehner-trump-presidency-over/607969/

It has taken a good deal longer than it should have, but Americans have now seen the con man behind the curtain. The president, enraged for having been unmasked, will become more desperate, more embittered, more unhinged. He knows nothing will be the same. His administration may stagger on, but it will be only a hollow shell. The Trump presidency is over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 16, 2020, 01:53:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 12:07:10 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/peter-wehner-trump-presidency-over/607969/

It has taken a good deal longer than it should have, but Americans have now seen the con man behind the curtain. The president, enraged for having been unmasked, will become more desperate, more embittered, more unhinged. He knows nothing will be the same. His administration may stagger on, but it will be only a hollow shell. The Trump presidency is over.

I think he's toast, but then the Democrats could also completely screw it up like they did in 2016

If anyone has the time, read the Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis (it will blow your mind)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:05:57 PM
Coronavirus won't matter a f**k in the election if its over by the summer.
His lying, narcissism, anti-intellectualism and corruption are well baked-in at this stage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on March 16, 2020, 02:08:03 PM
The funny thing is that coronavirus is vindicating Trump's opposition to open borders. If anyone had told us a year ago that Angela Merkel would today be closing Germany's borders, they wouldn't have been believed. The Democrats will have their work cut out to justify their strong support to date for open borders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 16, 2020, 02:13:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:05:57 PM
Coronavirus won't matter a f**k in the election if its over by the summer.
His lying, narcissism, anti-intellectualism and corruption are well baked-in at this stage.

If fewer than 12,469 people die.....he's got a great chance (That's how many died when Sleepy Joe was in charge of the Swine Flu epidemic)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:17:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 16, 2020, 02:13:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:05:57 PM
Coronavirus won't matter a f**k in the election if its over by the summer.
His lying, narcissism, anti-intellectualism and corruption are well baked-in at this stage.

If fewer than 12,469 people die.....he's got a great chance (That's how many died when Sleepy Joe was in charge of the Swine Flu epidemic)

Luckily for all of us, we're not really depending on him stepping up, at least to date. Be really fucked if we were. The states and cities are way ahead of him, thankfully.

I'll bet you he's fuming privately about Fauci, a genuinely noble professional and expert who has completely upstaged his bluster and self-centred, transparently political, lies and blame-shifting.

But yeah, Fox News et al. are trying to make hay comparing the two outbreaks and the respective responses to them. It would be a very interesting exercise to go back and examine the contemporary responses. They don't really appear to be hitting the mark so far though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:22:31 PM
Quote from: five points on March 16, 2020, 02:08:03 PM
The funny thing is that coronavirus is vindicating Trump's opposition to open borders. If anyone had told us a year ago that Angela Merkel would today be closing Germany's borders, they wouldn't have been believed. The Democrats will have their work cut out to justify their strong support to date for open borders.

Not really.

1. They don't support "open borders".
2. You can control your borders without ludicrous walls.
3. Humane immigration policies and treatment of illegals as human beings, not animals, is a completely different issue from temporarily closing the border amidst an epidemic that is exacerbated by modern mass travel and interconnectedness of countries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 16, 2020, 02:32:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:17:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 16, 2020, 02:13:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:05:57 PM
Coronavirus won't matter a f**k in the election if its over by the summer.
His lying, narcissism, anti-intellectualism and corruption are well baked-in at this stage.

If fewer than 12,469 people die.....he's got a great chance (That's how many died when Sleepy Joe was in charge of the Swine Flu epidemic)

Luckily for all of us, we're not really depending on him stepping up, at least to date. Be really fucked if we were. The states and cities are way ahead of him, thankfully.

I'll bet you he's fuming privately about Fauci, a genuinely noble professional and expert who has completely upstaged his bluster and self-centred, transparently political, lies and blame-shifting.

But yeah, Fox News et al. are trying to make hay comparing the two outbreaks and the respective responses to them. It would be a very interesting exercise to go back and examine the contemporary responses. They don't really appear to be hitting the mark so far though.

As we discovered in 2016 the truth doesn't matter-what people think is the truth is what matters (and the Democrats play this game just as good as the Republicans-just look at the Kavanaugh hearings)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on March 16, 2020, 03:26:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:22:31 PM
Quote from: five points on March 16, 2020, 02:08:03 PM
The funny thing is that coronavirus is vindicating Trump's opposition to open borders. If anyone had told us a year ago that Angela Merkel would today be closing Germany's borders, they wouldn't have been believed. The Democrats will have their work cut out to justify their strong support to date for open borders.

Not really.

1. They don't support "open borders".
2. You can control your borders without ludicrous walls.
3. Humane immigration policies and treatment of illegals as human beings, not animals, is a completely different issue from temporarily closing the border amidst an epidemic that is exacerbated by modern mass travel and interconnectedness of countries.

Even if Trump concedes these points (which he certainly won't), he'll just remind everyone that a long list of prominent Democrats, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,  Elizabeth Warren, Kirsten Gillibrand and Bill de Blasio have called for the scrapping of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

They've handed him a stick which he can use to blame them for the 'foreign' virus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 03:34:55 PM
Quote from: five points on March 16, 2020, 03:26:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:22:31 PM
Quote from: five points on March 16, 2020, 02:08:03 PM
The funny thing is that coronavirus is vindicating Trump's opposition to open borders. If anyone had told us a year ago that Angela Merkel would today be closing Germany's borders, they wouldn't have been believed. The Democrats will have their work cut out to justify their strong support to date for open borders.

Not really.

1. They don't support "open borders".
2. You can control your borders without ludicrous walls.
3. Humane immigration policies and treatment of illegals as human beings, not animals, is a completely different issue from temporarily closing the border amidst an epidemic that is exacerbated by modern mass travel and interconnectedness of countries.

Even if Trump concedes these points (which he certainly won't), he'll just remind everyone that a long list of prominent Democrats, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,  Elizabeth Warren, Kirsten Gillibrand and Bill de Blasio have called for the scrapping of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

They've handed him a stick with which he can use to blame them for the 'foreign' virus.

I seriously doubt if Trump will want to fight this election on the coronavirus and his response to it.

Plenty of attack ad material in there for Biden.

Regardless, at this stage, none of us know where we'll be in six months anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on March 16, 2020, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 03:34:55 PM

I seriously doubt if Trump will want to fight this election on the coronavirus and his response to it.

Plenty of attack ad material in there for Biden.

Regardless, at this stage, none of us know where we'll be in six months anyway.

It will be an issue. Not a doubt about that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
Let's say Trump barricaded the southern border completely. How would that have stopped coronavirus?

People have been flying in from European countries with no impediments until this week. Right now, there's tonnes of stories going around of people, particularly returning citizens, waltzing in with no screening at all. And that's right now in the midst of a growing pandemic.

And even the rollout of screening at certain airports this weekend was a disaster, with people waiting TEN HOURS to get out of the airport due to a complete failure to properly prepare and staff the checkpoints.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on March 16, 2020, 03:59:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
Let's say Trump barricaded the southern border completely. How would that have stopped coronavirus?

Trump will easily bat away questions like that. The Democrats' support for open borders extended wider than Mexico. And Coronavirus started in China.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 04:02:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
Let's say Trump barricaded the southern border completely. How would that have stopped coronavirus?

People have been flying in from European countries with no impediments until this week. Right now, there's tonnes of stories going around of people, particularly returning citizens, waltzing in with no screening at all. And that's right now in the midst of a growing pandemic.

And even the rollout of screening at certain airports this weekend was a disaster, with people waiting TEN HOURS to get out of the airport due to a complete failure to properly prepare and staff the checkpoints.
All it would take would be 1 infected carrier in that queue and you would be screening and waving through hundreds of asymptomatic carriers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 04:06:51 PM
Quote from: five points on March 16, 2020, 03:59:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
Let's say Trump barricaded the southern border completely. How would that have stopped coronavirus?

Trump will easily bat away questions like that. The Democrats' support for open borders extended wider than Mexico. And Coronavirus started in China.

No he won't.

Supposed "open borders" have nothing to do with coronavirus. You could have zero undocumented or illegal movement across the entire planet and a virus like this would still spread rapidly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 04:07:37 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 04:02:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
Let's say Trump barricaded the southern border completely. How would that have stopped coronavirus?

People have been flying in from European countries with no impediments until this week. Right now, there's tonnes of stories going around of people, particularly returning citizens, waltzing in with no screening at all. And that's right now in the midst of a growing pandemic.

And even the rollout of screening at certain airports this weekend was a disaster, with people waiting TEN HOURS to get out of the airport due to a complete failure to properly prepare and staff the checkpoints.
All it would take would be 1 infected carrier in that queue and you would be screening and waving through hundreds of asymptomatic carriers.

Which almost certainly happened.

And was pointed out by numerous people who were interviewed while waiting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 16, 2020, 04:44:09 PM
Joe can't hold up in a debate with trump he might think it's 1960 again and ask him behind the bike shed for a fight , if the virus turns out to be less than the disaster people are predicting he will use it to say his measures worked whether it's true or not , the result depends on how things shake out in Next few months, the trump presidency is over headline is on its about fiftieth go around now I'll believe it when it happens.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on March 16, 2020, 04:55:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 04:06:51 PM
Supposed "open borders" have nothing to do with coronavirus.

One word: China
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 04:56:55 PM
Quote from: five points on March 16, 2020, 04:55:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 04:06:51 PM
Supposed "open borders" have nothing to do with coronavirus.

One word: China

??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 05:05:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 16, 2020, 04:44:09 PM
Joe can't hold up in a debate with trump he might think it's 1960 again and ask him behind the bike shed for a fight , if the virus turns out to be less than the disaster people are predicting he will use it to say his measures worked whether it's true or not , the result depends on how things shake out in Next few months, the trump presidency is over headline is on its about fiftieth go around now I'll believe it when it happens.

What you cannot deny right now is that the whole is moving forward despite him.

States are acting, cities are acting, companies are acting, sports organizations are acting.

Almost all we've had from Trump is first denial and conspiracy, blame shifting and attempts to take false credit. He gets contradicted by his staff, then jumps in and contradicts them and later, makes them sing his praises on camera like they were victims in a hostage video. He is getting upstaged by Dr. Fauci on a daily basis.

People listen to Fauci. No one is listening to Trump for anything worthwhile on this problem.

What should absolutely be a campaign video is that presser where he openly and brazenly admitted that he didn't want the cruise ship to dock because it would spoil the numbers for him. As if those poor people weren't real until they left the boat and stood on shore and all that really mattered was optics and appearance for Trump, not the problems of actual people.

But that's par for the course for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 06:29:07 PM
It looks like Trump is finished.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 16, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 06:29:07 PM
It looks like Trump is finished.

I wouldn't pop the champagne quite yet. He's like a vampire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 16, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 06:29:07 PM
It looks like Trump is finished.

I wouldn't pop the champagne quite yet. He's like a vampire

Coronavirus will kill a lot of Evangelicals.
None of the preachers will be saying Trump was sent by God.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on March 17, 2020, 05:52:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 16, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 06:29:07 PM
It looks like Trump is finished.

I wouldn't pop the champagne quite yet. He's like a vampire

Coronavirus will kill a lot of Evangelicals.
None of the preachers will be saying Trump was sent by God.

He's looking at buying votes with $1K in everyones pocket!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 17, 2020, 06:13:57 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on March 17, 2020, 05:52:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 16, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 06:29:07 PM
It looks like Trump is finished.

I wouldn't pop the champagne quite yet. He's like a vampire

Coronavirus will kill a lot of Evangelicals.
None of the preachers will be saying Trump was sent by God.

He's looking at buying votes with $1K in everyones pocket!

At least he is now finally starting to take this whole mess seriously.

Cuomo has been a star here in NY so far. Decisive and taking responsibility for his decisions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on March 24, 2020, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.

Well the oldsters in Texas will gladly offer themselves up so that the economy can be saved
https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1242245135129346050
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2020, 07:35:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 24, 2020, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.

Well the oldsters in Texas will gladly offer themselves up so that the economy can be saved
https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1242245135129346050

It will be interesting to hear what the brave Lt. Governor has to say if in a few weeks he's waiting, in terrible pain, for a non-existent ventilator, lungs fucked, turning blue, unable to catch a single breath.

Although one would imagine a man like himself will have no issue with a ventilator being provided.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected

LOL-that's what people said in 2016 (minus "re")

If 1/2 of what is being said is true about what the Democrats tried to slip into the stimulus Bill, then they just handed Trump around 5 points in November
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2020, 07:41:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected

Luckily for most US citizens, the governors, including some Republicans, seem to be taking this far more seriously than him.

All he f**king sees is the DJ.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2020, 08:02:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected

LOL-that's what people said in 2016 (minus "re")

If 1/2 of what is being said is true about what the Democrats tried to slip into the stimulus Bill, then they just handed Trump around 5 points in November

No one will give a f**k once it passes tonight, especially given what's facing the country.

But if it does become an issue, the Dems have more than ample ground to fight their corner on what each side wanted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 24, 2020, 08:11:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
If 1/2 of what is being said is true about what the Democrats tried to slip into the stimulus Bill, then they just handed Trump around 5 points in November

What is being said by Republicans, talk radio, Fox News and right wing websites and social media accounts is almost certainly not true or a ridiculous exaggeration but that won't stop it being regurgitated by those groups.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2020, 08:27:49 PM
Quote from: dec on March 24, 2020, 08:11:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
If 1/2 of what is being said is true about what the Democrats tried to slip into the stimulus Bill, then they just handed Trump around 5 points in November

What is being said by Republicans, talk radio, Fox News and right wing websites and social media accounts is almost certainly not true or a ridiculous exaggeration but that won't stop it being regurgitated by those groups.

I attempted to find a report in CNN or the WaPo detailing what the sticking points were but (un)surprisingly there weren't any reports I could find

I did find this website which seems to be somewhat middle of the road

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.countable.us/articles/43215-s-house-democrats-coronavirus-relief-bill.amp


https://www.google.com/amp/s/mediabiasfactcheck.com/countable-news/%3famp




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2020, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

Maybe, unlike you,  they don't rely on CNN for their information
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:53:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM


WTF is the matter with people?

Maybe, unlike you,  they don't rely on CNN for their information

I don't watch CNN or any cable news. Where do you get your information? From Fox "coronavirus is a hoax" News?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 24, 2020, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:53:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM


WTF is the matter with people?

Maybe, unlike you,  they don't rely on CNN for their information

I don't watch CNN or any cable news. Where do you get your information? From Fox "coronavirus is a hoax" News?

It's not a hoax on Fox any more. Now that Donald is pretending to take it seriously, Fox is echoing his comments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 10:39:18 PM
Quote from: dec on March 24, 2020, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:53:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM


WTF is the matter with people?

Maybe, unlike you,  they don't rely on CNN for their information

I don't watch CNN or any cable news. Where do you get your information? From Fox "coronavirus is a hoax" News?

It's not a hoax on Fox any more. Now that Donald is pretending to take it seriously, Fox is echoing his comments.

And they're denying that they ever called it a hoax even though you can easily pull up clips of them saying it was. Orwell was onto something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on March 24, 2020, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

If you ever needed proof that there's no such thing as bad publicity....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 12:29:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected

LOL-that's what people said in 2016 (minus "re")

If 1/2 of what is being said is true about what the Democrats tried to slip into the stimulus Bill, then they just handed Trump around 5 points in November

Is it more funding for prison sex-change operations? That's one particular thing you seem very interested in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:06:56 AM
As Trump sidelines medical and public health expertise and bullshits about "opening up" the country, they issue an alert that anyone leaving or having recently left NYC immediately self quarantine for two weeks.

Shit is going to get really bad here, but it's not stopping at the N.Y. metropolitan area borders.

Better hope you don't need one of those elusive ventilators.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 25, 2020, 06:55:43 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 12:29:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected

LOL-that's what people said in 2016 (minus "re")

If 1/2 of what is being said is true about what the Democrats tried to slip into the stimulus Bill, then they just handed Trump around 5 points in November

Is it more funding for prison sex-change operations? That's one particular thing you seem very interested in.

https://youtu.be/JtPQQjj01kM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:24:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:06:56 AM
As Trump sidelines medical and public health expertise and bullshits about "opening up" the country, they issue an alert that anyone leaving or having recently left NYC immediately self quarantine for two weeks.

Shit is going to get really bad here, but it's not stopping at the N.Y. metropolitan area borders.

Better hope you don't need one of those elusive ventilators.

Plenty of blame to go around

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/18/new_yorks_ventilator_rationing_plan_142685.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2020, 11:25:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:24:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:06:56 AM
As Trump sidelines medical and public health expertise and bullshits about "opening up" the country, they issue an alert that anyone leaving or having recently left NYC immediately self quarantine for two weeks.

Shit is going to get really bad here, but it's not stopping at the N.Y. metropolitan area borders.

Better hope you don't need one of those elusive ventilators.

Plenty of blame to go around

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/18/new_yorks_ventilator_rationing_plan_142685.html

No doubt. And an issue that is being and will be repeated all over, not just in NY. Which makes it all the more urgent for Trump to get his shit together and use the powers he unlocked with so much fanfare to get a coordinated federal response to this problem in place, rather than having states compete against each other and other countries for supplies. Might be too late, in terms of the next couple of months, for NY, but this shit is going to hit all over.

As an aside, hopefully an outcome of all this will be a bit more willingness on behalf of politicians and citizens to better plan for the future, whether its disaster preparedness or climate change or conservation or whatever. That, and a proper appreciation for expertise and science.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 25, 2020, 11:51:08 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 11:25:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:24:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:06:56 AM
As Trump sidelines medical and public health expertise and bullshits about "opening up" the country, they issue an alert that anyone leaving or having recently left NYC immediately self quarantine for two weeks.

Shit is going to get really bad here, but it's not stopping at the N.Y. metropolitan area borders.

Better hope you don't need one of those elusive ventilators.

Plenty of blame to go around

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/18/new_yorks_ventilator_rationing_plan_142685.html

No doubt. And an issue that is being and will be repeated all over, not just in NY. Which makes it all the more urgent for Trump to get his shit together and use the powers he unlocked with so much fanfare to get a coordinated federal response to this problem in place, rather than having states compete against each other and other countries for supplies. Might be too late, in terms of the next couple of months, for NY, but this shit is going to hit all over.

As an aside, hopefully an outcome of all this will be a bit more willingness on behalf of politicians and citizens to better plan for the future, whether its disaster preparedness or climate change or conservation or whatever. That, and a proper appreciation for expertise and science.

It was known back in early February that this was going to be as bad as it is

Trump didn't take the action then that he should have taken because he knew the consequences for the economy (and his re election) would be dire

I don't know what the Democrats were up to during this time frame.....they sit on the same committees and have access to (pretty much) all of the same information

DeBlasio trying to lay ALL this at Trumps door is ridiculous. I knew there was more to the story when Cuomo wasn't going all in on Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:41:52 PM
You mean the same Democrats who Trump and the right were, until little over a week ago, accusing of hyping up the danger and creating a new "hoax" to tank the market and finally get Trump?
As for Cuomo, he has been superb through all of this. A proper leader in a difficult time, like Guiliani was before him after 9/11 (let's hope he doesn't disgrace himself later like Giuliani did). For now, Cuomo needs Trump. I'd say that has been the primary reason for not going too hard on him. As the daily briefings currently exhibit (Pence, if he has an ounce of dignity and self-awareness, must die a little inside during each press conference), you have to bow down and flatter, publicly, to get anywhere with Trump. The Times published a long article on the ventilator issue more than a week ago. If Trump wants to fall back on the findings of a long-standing state health committee that produced the 2015 analysis, let him, but that does not excuse his performance to date. What will he do when its a Republican governor with the same problem? Its not like it hasn't been a widespread issue.
DeBlasio - I'm not sure how many pay attention to anything he says. Like Trump, he has been completely upstaged by Cuomo, again, and became irrelevant when Cuomo made him finally shut the schools.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 25, 2020, 02:33:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:41:52 PM
You mean the same Democrats who Trump and the right were, until little over a week ago, accusing of hyping up the danger and creating a new "hoax" to tank the market and finally get Trump?
As for Cuomo, he has been superb through all of this. A proper leader in a difficult time, like Guiliani was before him after 9/11 (let's hope he doesn't disgrace himself later like Giuliani did). For now, Cuomo needs Trump. I'd say that has been the primary reason for not going too hard on him. As the daily briefings currently exhibit (Pence, if he has an ounce of dignity and self-awareness, must die a little inside during each press conference), you have to bow down and flatter, publicly, to get anywhere with Trump. The Times published a long article on the ventilator issue more than a week ago. If Trump wants to fall back on the findings of a long-standing state health committee that produced the 2015 analysis, let him, but that does not excuse his performance to date. What will he do when its a Republican governor with the same problem? Its not like it hasn't been a widespread issue.
DeBlasio - I'm not sure how many pay attention to anything he says. Like Trump, he has been completely upstaged by Cuomo, again, and became irrelevant when Cuomo made him finally shut the schools.

Trump fvcked this up royally, but the Democrats are playing right into his hands by continually blaming him for $hit that was/is outside his control.

DeBlasio and the ventilators is just the best example where Trump can throw it right back at them with spades

"It's a lot of money but less than the $750 million he threw away on a boondoggle "Buffalo Billion" solar panel factory"-per the Politico article
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2020, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 02:33:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:41:52 PM
You mean the same Democrats who Trump and the right were, until little over a week ago, accusing of hyping up the danger and creating a new "hoax" to tank the market and finally get Trump?
As for Cuomo, he has been superb through all of this. A proper leader in a difficult time, like Guiliani was before him after 9/11 (let's hope he doesn't disgrace himself later like Giuliani did). For now, Cuomo needs Trump. I'd say that has been the primary reason for not going too hard on him. As the daily briefings currently exhibit (Pence, if he has an ounce of dignity and self-awareness, must die a little inside during each press conference), you have to bow down and flatter, publicly, to get anywhere with Trump. The Times published a long article on the ventilator issue more than a week ago. If Trump wants to fall back on the findings of a long-standing state health committee that produced the 2015 analysis, let him, but that does not excuse his performance to date. What will he do when its a Republican governor with the same problem? Its not like it hasn't been a widespread issue.
DeBlasio - I'm not sure how many pay attention to anything he says. Like Trump, he has been completely upstaged by Cuomo, again, and became irrelevant when Cuomo made him finally shut the schools.

Trump fvcked this up royally, but the Democrats are playing right into his hands by continually blaming him for $hit that was/is outside his control.

DeBlasio and the ventilators is just the best example where Trump can throw it right back at them with spades

"It's a lot of money but less than the $750 million he threw away on a boondoggle "Buffalo Billion" solar panel factory"-per the Politico article

Which is why DeBlasio should shut the f**k up on this issue and leave it to smarter, calmer heads like Cuomo and Newsome and, on the GOP side DeWine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 06:36:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 06:55:43 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 12:29:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected

LOL-that's what people said in 2016 (minus "re")

If 1/2 of what is being said is true about what the Democrats tried to slip into the stimulus Bill, then they just handed Trump around 5 points in November

Is it more funding for prison sex-change operations? That's one particular thing you seem very interested in.

https://youtu.be/JtPQQjj01kM

Bill Maher is getting more funding? Why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:07:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 06:36:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 06:55:43 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 12:29:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected

LOL-that's what people said in 2016 (minus "re")

If 1/2 of what is being said is true about what the Democrats tried to slip into the stimulus Bill, then they just handed Trump around 5 points in November

Is it more funding for prison sex-change operations? That's one particular thing you seem very interested in.

https://youtu.be/JtPQQjj01kM

Bill Maher is getting more funding? Why?

I'm not the only one who thinks it's a ridiculous policy position to have
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 25, 2020, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected
No way? Every chance he will get re-elected. America is full of buffoons like Trump let's not forget.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:07:09 PM

I'm not the only one who thinks it's a ridiculous policy position to have

I didn't realise people still cared about what Bill Maher has to say
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2020, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:07:09 PM

I'm not the only one who thinks it's a ridiculous policy position to have

I didn't realise people still cared about what Bill Maher has to say

Maher hasn't a clue about a lot of things on certain topics. Palestine, medicine (he's an anti-vaxxer), the value of blue sky research and space exploration, etc..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 07:43:41 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:07:09 PM

I'm not the only one who thinks it's a ridiculous policy position to have

I didn't realise people still cared about what Bill Maher has to say
the sheep in the crowd liked it but if he quoted warrens talking points they would probably cheer too. Sad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 25, 2020, 08:01:05 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 25, 2020, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected
No way? Every chance he will get re-elected. America is full of buffoons like Trump let's not forget.

60% approval for his handling of the crisis according to a recent Pew Research poll
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 25, 2020, 08:04:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2020, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:07:09 PM

I'm not the only one who thinks it's a ridiculous policy position to have

I didn't realise people still cared about what Bill Maher has to say

Maher hasn't a clue about a lot of things on certain topics. Palestine, medicine (he's an anti-vaxxer), the value of blue sky research and space exploration, etc..

So in the clip he refers to actual Democratic candidates policy positions

(1) letting the Boston Marathon Bomber vote

(2) Taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners

(3) Abortions for men

And you wonder why Trump actually has a chance of winning again? LOL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2020, 08:05:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 08:01:05 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 25, 2020, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Trump wants the US "raring to go by Easter".

Deluded.
There is no way he can get reelected
No way? Every chance he will get re-elected. America is full of buffoons like Trump let's not forget.

60% approval for his handling of the crisis according to a recent Pew Research poll

Disapproval has not dipped below 50% since March 2017 according to an average of all the polls:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2020, 12:20:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 08:04:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2020, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:07:09 PM

I'm not the only one who thinks it's a ridiculous policy position to have

I didn't realise people still cared about what Bill Maher has to say

Maher hasn't a clue about a lot of things on certain topics. Palestine, medicine (he's an anti-vaxxer), the value of blue sky research and space exploration, etc..

So in the clip he refers to actual Democratic candidates policy positions

(1) letting the Boston Marathon Bomber vote

(2) Taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners

(3) Abortions for men

And you wonder why Trump actually has a chance of winning again? LOL

You keep bringing up these red herrings as if they were central policy planks of the Democratic party and priorities for the campaign. I guess you have to have something to justify in your mind your defense of the indefensible when it comes to Trump and the GOP and their actual, real policy positions and governance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 12:33:15 PM
New York nurse on now, wow! Trump is saying they'll be sorted by Easter and she's losing the plot!

She says they are dealing with the virus in hospitals without proper PPE! How does he get away with it really?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 12:33:15 PM
New York nurse on now, wow! Trump is saying they'll be sorted by Easter and she's losing the plot!

She says they are dealing with the virus in hospitals without proper PPE! How does he get away with it really?

Can't blame all of the PPE issues on Trump. Plenty of that to go around. There are a lot of people, all over the political spectrum at all levels, and among the general public too, who are going to have questions to answer on the ability or inability of hospitals to cope, whether its PPE, ventilators, staff numbers or beds. I expect that will be the same in most countries.

Doesn't mean Trump hasn't been an idiot in his response to the crisis though. He has.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2020, 02:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2020, 12:20:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 08:04:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2020, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 25, 2020, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 25, 2020, 07:07:09 PM

I'm not the only one who thinks it's a ridiculous policy position to have

I didn't realise people still cared about what Bill Maher has to say

Maher hasn't a clue about a lot of things on certain topics. Palestine, medicine (he's an anti-vaxxer), the value of blue sky research and space exploration, etc..

So in the clip he refers to actual Democratic candidates policy positions

(1) letting the Boston Marathon Bomber vote

(2) Taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners

(3) Abortions for men

And you wonder why Trump actually has a chance of winning again? LOL

You keep bringing up these red herrings as if they were central policy planks of the Democratic party and priorities for the campaign. I guess you have to have something to justify in your mind your defense of the indefensible when it comes to Trump and the GOP and their actual, real policy positions and governance.

Well they were all discussed during various Democratic debates as far as I know, so if they don't want to own it, then they should shut the fvck up about it.

Elizabeth Warren is also on the record as saying that she would allow transgender children select her cabinet members

(When Trump makes some off the wall comment don't the media and the Democrats try and stick every single Republican with the same position.....even though we know they're actually not positions at all, just Trum having diarrhea of the mouth)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2020, 02:26:04 PM
Your point might be valid if the entire GOP wasn't lying prostrate before Trump. Trump IS the Republican Party. There is barely an utterance or policy from him that they can't indulge and rationalize, no matter how repugnant, self-serving, bigoted or inhumane. Occasional critics like Romney and Amash are sidelined and shunned. Others end up giving up their seats as they can't win if they're down with Trump. There is no such lockstep in the Democratic side.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 02:33:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 12:33:15 PM
New York nurse on now, wow! Trump is saying they'll be sorted by Easter and she's losing the plot!

She says they are dealing with the virus in hospitals without proper PPE! How does he get away with it really?

Can't blame all of the PPE issues on Trump. Plenty of that to go around. There are a lot of people, all over the political spectrum at all levels, and among the general public too, who are going to have questions to answer on the ability or inability of hospitals to cope, whether its PPE, ventilators, staff numbers or beds. I expect that will be the same in most countries.

Doesn't mean Trump hasn't been an idiot in his response to the crisis though. He has.

But saying that the crisis will be over by Easter and there being no PPE to combat this then he's wrong, if he wants to fight it then give them the tools..

It's like sending men into battle with no guns
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2020, 02:41:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2020, 02:26:04 PM
Your point might be valid if the entire GOP wasn't lying prostrate before Trump. Trump IS the Republican Party. There is barely an utterance or policy from him that they can't indulge and rationalize, no matter how repugnant, self-serving, bigoted or inhumane. Occasional critics like Romney and Amash are sidelined and shunned. Others end up giving up their seats as they can't win if they're down with Trump. There is no such lockstep in the Democratic side.

BS....see what happened during the debate when the candidates were asked if universal healthcare coverage should cover the undocumented

And as for the New Green Deal.....watch out

As her allies are readying primary challenges against Democrats who refuse to join the Green New Deal's 100 co-sponsors in Congress, Ocasio-Cortez said, "You don't necessarily have to replace everybody."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c9ea7e2e4b0bc0daca8c489/amp

People are as afraid of her as they are of Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2020, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2020, 02:41:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2020, 02:26:04 PM
Your point might be valid if the entire GOP wasn't lying prostrate before Trump. Trump IS the Republican Party. There is barely an utterance or policy from him that they can't indulge and rationalize, no matter how repugnant, self-serving, bigoted or inhumane. Occasional critics like Romney and Amash are sidelined and shunned. Others end up giving up their seats as they can't win if they're down with Trump. There is no such lockstep in the Democratic side.

BS....see what happened during the debate when the candidates were asked if universal healthcare coverage should cover the undocumented

And as for the New Green Deal.....watch out

As her allies are readying primary challenges against Democrats who refuse to join the Green New Deal's 100 co-sponsors in Congress, Ocasio-Cortez said, "You don't necessarily have to replace everybody."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c9ea7e2e4b0bc0daca8c489/amp

People are as afraid of her as they are of Trump

There is a massive difference between providing healthcare to undocumented immigrants or the green new deal (much of which Biden doesn't agree with BTW), positions which would enjoy a lot of support from liberals and moderates, even if they're not central issues, and an obscure, peripheral position on the part of one candidate to publicly pay for sex change operations in prisoners. If you want to argue against the Dems and for Trump and the GOP on those counts, then go for it.

As for the fear of Warren, that must be why the Democratic base just came out and booted her, and is in the process of booting Bernie, to the side in favour of a moderate.

Haven't seen any such course adjustment from the GOP yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2020, 02:57:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 02:33:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 12:33:15 PM
New York nurse on now, wow! Trump is saying they'll be sorted by Easter and she's losing the plot!

She says they are dealing with the virus in hospitals without proper PPE! How does he get away with it really?

Can't blame all of the PPE issues on Trump. Plenty of that to go around. There are a lot of people, all over the political spectrum at all levels, and among the general public too, who are going to have questions to answer on the ability or inability of hospitals to cope, whether its PPE, ventilators, staff numbers or beds. I expect that will be the same in most countries.

Doesn't mean Trump hasn't been an idiot in his response to the crisis though. He has.

But saying that the crisis will be over by Easter and there being no PPE to combat this then he's wrong, if he wants to fight it then give them the tools..

It's like sending men into battle with no guns

He's not helping much, that's for sure.

And most sensible people realize he's talking through his hole most of the time on this issue. Maybe enough will wake up to see that he's always talking through his hole.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2020, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2020, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2020, 02:41:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2020, 02:26:04 PM
Your point might be valid if the entire GOP wasn't lying prostrate before Trump. Trump IS the Republican Party. There is barely an utterance or policy from him that they can't indulge and rationalize, no matter how repugnant, self-serving, bigoted or inhumane. Occasional critics like Romney and Amash are sidelined and shunned. Others end up giving up their seats as they can't win if they're down with Trump. There is no such lockstep in the Democratic side.

BS....see what happened during the debate when the candidates were asked if universal healthcare coverage should cover the undocumented

And as for the New Green Deal.....watch out

As her allies are readying primary challenges against Democrats who refuse to join the Green New Deal's 100 co-sponsors in Congress, Ocasio-Cortez said, "You don't necessarily have to replace everybody."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c9ea7e2e4b0bc0daca8c489/amp

People are as afraid of her as they are of Trump

There is a massive difference between providing healthcare to undocumented immigrants or the green new deal (much of which Biden doesn't agree with BTW), positions which would enjoy a lot of support from liberals and moderates, even if they're not central issues, and an obscure, peripheral position on the part of one candidate to publicly pay for sex change operations in prisoners. If you want to argue against the Dems and for Trump and the GOP on those counts, then go for it.

As for the fear of Warren, that must be why the Democratic base just came out and booted her, and is in the process of booting Bernie, to the side in favour of a moderate.

Haven't seen any such course adjustment from the GOP yet.

Here's what you said:

" There is no such lockstep in the Democratic side."

The debates and the New Green Deal would prove your interpretation wrong
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2020, 03:28:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2020, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2020, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2020, 02:41:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2020, 02:26:04 PM
Your point might be valid if the entire GOP wasn't lying prostrate before Trump. Trump IS the Republican Party. There is barely an utterance or policy from him that they can't indulge and rationalize, no matter how repugnant, self-serving, bigoted or inhumane. Occasional critics like Romney and Amash are sidelined and shunned. Others end up giving up their seats as they can't win if they're down with Trump. There is no such lockstep in the Democratic side.

BS....see what happened during the debate when the candidates were asked if universal healthcare coverage should cover the undocumented

And as for the New Green Deal.....watch out

As her allies are readying primary challenges against Democrats who refuse to join the Green New Deal's 100 co-sponsors in Congress, Ocasio-Cortez said, "You don't necessarily have to replace everybody."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c9ea7e2e4b0bc0daca8c489/amp

People are as afraid of her as they are of Trump

There is a massive difference between providing healthcare to undocumented immigrants or the green new deal (much of which Biden doesn't agree with BTW), positions which would enjoy a lot of support from liberals and moderates, even if they're not central issues, and an obscure, peripheral position on the part of one candidate to publicly pay for sex change operations in prisoners. If you want to argue against the Dems and for Trump and the GOP on those counts, then go for it.

As for the fear of Warren, that must be why the Democratic base just came out and booted her, and is in the process of booting Bernie, to the side in favour of a moderate.

Haven't seen any such course adjustment from the GOP yet.

Here's what you said:

" There is no such lockstep in the Democratic side."

The debates and the New Green Deal would prove your interpretation wrong

Will the Green New Deal be part of Biden's platform?

Were all of the candidates agreed on how to proceed on healthcare?

I don't think so.

FFS the right spent the winter laughing at the Dems for being all over the place in terms of the expectations of the various parts of the coalition and the general disunity. It was only when it looked like Bernie could win that a some sort of coming together around a mild, inoffensive centrist occurred.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 27, 2020, 08:00:42 PM
Biden is being accused of sexual assault by a former staff member
I don't remember his stance on the Kavanaugh situation but it will be interesting to see how this shakes out in next few days , are the dems beginning to believe joe is losing it mentally and  Bernie especially with the current climate is a better bet to beat trump ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 27, 2020, 08:42:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 27, 2020, 08:00:42 PM
Biden is being accused of sexual assault by a former staff member
I don't remember his stance on the Kavanaugh situation but it will be interesting to see how this shakes out in next few days , are the dems beginning to believe joe is losing it mentally and  Bernie especially with the current climate is a better bet to beat trump ?

It's all fvcked up...they know Joe is losing it and there's talk about drafting in Cuomo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2020, 10:27:44 PM
Biden should have bragged about grabbing them by the pussy. Then evangelical conservatives would have flocked to him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 27, 2020, 10:47:58 PM
Or raw dogging a porn star a few weeks after his wife gave birth to his kid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 28, 2020, 12:49:36 AM
I'm sure joe would like the presumption of innocence which I would give him , funny how the wheel is always turning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2020, 02:36:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 28, 2020, 12:49:36 AM
I'm sure joe would like the presumption of innocence which I would give him , funny how the wheel is always turning.

How many suits and accusations has Trump against him for sexual assault and harassment?

But if these charges are credible, Joe should be done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2020, 11:47:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2020, 02:36:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 28, 2020, 12:49:36 AM
I'm sure joe would like the presumption of innocence which I would give him , funny how the wheel is always turning.

How many suits and accusations has Trump against him for sexual assault and harassment?

But if these charges are credible, Joe should be done.

I'm sure the media will treat Uncle Joe, just as fairly as they treated Justice Kavanaugh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2020, 02:42:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2020, 11:47:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2020, 02:36:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 28, 2020, 12:49:36 AM
I'm sure joe would like the presumption of innocence which I would give him , funny how the wheel is always turning.

How many suits and accusations has Trump against him for sexual assault and harassment?

But if these charges are credible, Joe should be done.

I'm sure the media will treat Uncle Joe, just as fairly as they treated Justice Kavanaugh

Or maybe the public is done with it given that half the country clearly doesn't give a f**k about allegations of abuse, even when they number in the dozens and the accused has appeared on tape boasting of such.

Al Franken must be especially bitter looking back.

But hey, it's only the Republicans who are reported on.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2020, 02:53:56 PM
I believe Dr Christine Blasey Ford

All women must be believed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 28, 2020, 03:00:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 28, 2020, 02:53:56 PM
I believe Dr Christine Blasey Ford

All women must be believed

This woman deserves a hearing.

Biden himself is on the record as saying such in the past in reference to Kavanaugh and others.

But given that the Dems have already eaten a couple of their own, that there is probably cynicism and resignation over Trump and Kavanaugh, and throw in the current attention-hogging pandemic, Biden may skate through this, especially if no further allegations come out. It's not as if Trump has a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 30, 2020, 12:32:29 AM
Trump said tonight “holding down” the U.S. death toll to 100,000 means that “we will have done a very good job,”

He was also boasting the high ratings he is getting for these press conferences. Higher numbers than season finale of the Bachelor..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 30, 2020, 03:27:30 AM
100,000 deaths from a hoax seems a bit high.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on March 30, 2020, 07:13:07 AM
Surely this joke of a man has to be seen through now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on March 30, 2020, 10:49:39 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 30, 2020, 07:13:07 AM
Surely this joke of a man has to be seen through now.

The people who vote for him are not capable of seeing through a window (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzDhm808oU4).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 30, 2020, 12:07:35 PM
Will the shift to take it seriously and listen to the professionals hold this time?

Or will some Fox News bullshit turn his head again in two weeks?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2020, 12:22:12 PM
Looks like there's plenty of blame to go around

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/nyregion/coronavirus-bill-de-blasio.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/de-blasio-haunted-by-weeks-old-tweet-urging-people-to-get-out-on-the-town-despite-coronavirus%3f_amp=true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 30, 2020, 12:43:33 PM
I wouldn't be too hard on DeBlasio for urging people to still get out about their business on March 1. At that point, it hadn't hit. It's not like he was calling it a hoax. Plus, there was a lot of genuine concern about the toll on Chinatown and Flushing businesses as people started deserting Asian restaurants and so on in February. It was a few days later that the gravity of the situation started to become clear. My kids met AOC and Chuck Schumer on March 1 at the St Patrick's Day parade in Sunnyside in Queens. Everyone was still out and about. No one was calling for social distancing at that point. We were all aware it might become an issue in a few weeks, especially after the horror stories subsequently started to emerge from Italy.

Obviously things changed in the following week or two, which is where DeBlasio made the wrong call on the schools. His motives were defensible; he was concerned about the availability of healthcare workers and the role of schools in providing meals and, basically, day care for poorer children, but that could be worked around, as has been done. Thankfully Cuomo stepped in and made the call for him, calls he has continued to make ( gleefully I'm sure- those two boys despise each other!). As a result, Cuomo's approvals are probably sky-high; DeBlasio, not so much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
Trump broadly ridiculed and attacked for daring suggest medical supplies were bring stolen

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/30/low-tech-medical-equipment-saves-lives/%3foutputType=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/trump-cuomo-masks-hospital-doctors-stealing-new-york-1494949%3famp=1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1172251


Where did he get such an outlandish idea?


https://www.businessinsider.com/people-stealing-masks-from-hospitals-and-research-facilities-2020-3?fbclid=IwAR0nClQDZOvRChuzEcyQVTZGWB4llT406M_ODFdYhVW3BC1T_449XiLBhTQ


FROM GOVERNOR CUOMOS MARCH 6Th PRESS CONFERENCE

I haven't seen any retractions, corrections or apologies from the lame stream media.  All they're doing at this point is helping Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
Trump broadly ridiculed and attacked for daring suggest medical supplies were bring stolen

Where did he get such an outlandish idea?

FROM GOVERNOR CUOMOS MARCH 6Th PRESS CONFERENCE

I haven't seen any retractions, corrections or apologies from the lame stream media.  All they're doing at this point is helping Trump

No whitey - difference is Trump said they are going out the back door. Which means he is saying the staff are stealing them.

Cuomo didn't imply that - he said people were stealing them to sell on.

Quite an important distinction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2020, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
Trump broadly ridiculed and attacked for daring suggest medical supplies were bring stolen

Where did he get such an outlandish idea?

FROM GOVERNOR CUOMOS MARCH 6Th PRESS CONFERENCE

I haven't seen any retractions, corrections or apologies from the lame stream media.  All they're doing at this point is helping Trump

No whitey - difference is Trump said they are going out the back door. Which means he is saying the staff are stealing them.

Cuomo didn't imply that - he said people were stealing them to sell on.

Quite an important distinction.


Which people were stealing them?

Who do you define as staff?

Would you include contract cleaners and contract security and other temporary outsiders?

I can't imagine patients or visitors have keys to a supply closet?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:17:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 07:58:24 PM
Which people were stealing them?

Who do you define as staff?

Would you include contract cleaners and contract security and other temporary outsiders?

I can't imagine patients or visitors have keys to a supply closet?

If you read the rest of the article you posted - you'd have observed they are being stolen from high-frequency areas - not closets.

That is why they are now having to lock them away. Cuomo's presser was tandem with staff having to lock stuff up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2020, 08:31:25 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:17:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 07:58:24 PM
Which people were stealing them?

Who do you define as staff?

Would you include contract cleaners and contract security and other temporary outsiders?

I can't imagine patients or visitors have keys to a supply closet?

If you read the rest of the article you posted - you'd have observed they are being stolen from high-frequency areas - not closets.

That is why they are now having to lock them away. Cuomo's presser was tandem with staff having to lock stuff up.

Here's what Cuomo said

"Not just people taking a couple or three, I mean just actual thefts of those products," Cuomo said on March 7. "I've asked the state police to do an investigation, look at places that are selling masks, medical equipment, protective wear, feeding the anxiety."

Asking the State Police to investigate implies that there's some wide scale theft going on not just a crime of someone grabbing a handful in a high traffic area
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:34:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 08:31:25 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:17:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 07:58:24 PM
Which people were stealing them?

Who do you define as staff?

Would you include contract cleaners and contract security and other temporary outsiders?

I can't imagine patients or visitors have keys to a supply closet?

If you read the rest of the article you posted - you'd have observed they are being stolen from high-frequency areas - not closets.

That is why they are now having to lock them away. Cuomo's presser was tandem with staff having to lock stuff up.

Here's what Cuomo said

"Not just people taking a couple or three, I mean just actual thefts of those products," Cuomo said on March 7. "I've asked the state police to do an investigation, look at places that are selling masks, medical equipment, protective wear, feeding the anxiety."

Asking the State Police to investigate implies that there's some wide scale theft going on not just a crime of someone grabbing a handful in a high traffic area

Did you not want to quote the very next paragraph no?

Let me help you out sure:

QuoteDr. Shira Doron, an infectious disease physician and hospital epidemiologist at Tufts Medical Center in Boston, told Modern Healthcare she had witnessed thefts of masks and other protective equipment from high-trafficked areas in her facility.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 31, 2020, 08:51:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
Trump broadly ridiculed and attacked for daring suggest medical supplies were bring stolen

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/30/low-tech-medical-equipment-saves-lives/%3foutputType=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/trump-cuomo-masks-hospital-doctors-stealing-new-york-1494949%3famp=1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1172251


Where did he get such an outlandish idea?


https://www.businessinsider.com/people-stealing-masks-from-hospitals-and-research-facilities-2020-3?fbclid=IwAR0nClQDZOvRChuzEcyQVTZGWB4llT406M_ODFdYhVW3BC1T_449XiLBhTQ


FROM GOVERNOR CUOMOS MARCH 6Th PRESS CONFERENCE

I haven't seen any retractions, corrections or apologies from the lame stream media.  All they're doing at this point is helping Trump

What does this have to do with prison sex-change operations?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2020, 09:06:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:34:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 08:31:25 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:17:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 07:58:24 PM
Which people were stealing them?

Who do you define as staff?

Would you include contract cleaners and contract security and other temporary outsiders?

I can't imagine patients or visitors have keys to a supply closet?

If you read the rest of the article you posted - you'd have observed they are being stolen from high-frequency areas - not closets.

That is why they are now having to lock them away. Cuomo's presser was tandem with staff having to lock stuff up.

Here's what Cuomo said

"Not just people taking a couple or three, I mean just actual thefts of those products," Cuomo said on March 7. "I've asked the state police to do an investigation, look at places that are selling masks, medical equipment, protective wear, feeding the anxiety."

Asking the State Police to investigate implies that there's some wide scale theft going on not just a crime of someone grabbing a handful in a high traffic area

Did you not want to quote the very next paragraph no?

Let me help you out sure:

QuoteDr. Shira Doron, an infectious disease physician and hospital epidemiologist at Tufts Medical Center in Boston, told Modern Healthcare she had witnessed thefts of masks and other protective equipment from high-trafficked areas in her facility.

That's in Boston......we're specifically  taking about New York and Cuomo and DeBlasio and the New York State Police investigation. All three articles I linked in (to the best of my knowledge) relate to New York and the blowback from there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2020, 09:15:14 PM
Trump is implying that the massive rise in demand is down to theft. There is absolutely no basis for that.

No doubt he was looking for something to push back against the criticism of him for his lack of help in coordinating the procurement of PPE among the states and was told of Cuomo's statement THREE WEEKS previously.

Now, the stories should of course acknowledge that Cuomo did earlier raise the issue. Doesn't change Trump's attempt, once again, at blame shifting though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2020, 09:15:14 PM
Trump is implying that the massive rise in demand is down to theft. There is absolutely no basis for that.

No doubt he was looking for something to push back against the criticism of him for his lack of help in coordinating the procurement of PPE among the states and was told of Cuomo's statement THREE WEEKS previously.

Now, the stories should of course acknowledge that Cuomo did earlier raise the issue. Doesn't change Trump's attempt, once again, at blame shifting though.

Look....Trump is a fvckin clown of the highest order and cant string 2 coherent thoughts together

Non stop verbal diarhea about fvckin everything

He makes it very easy for the media to take things he says and spin them into things he didn't say, but flat out fabrications like this only help him because he can say.....seee, what did I tell you FAKE NEWS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 31, 2020, 11:30:25 PM
Pence is so far up Trump's hole you can see his eyes when Trump talks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2020, 12:06:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2020, 09:15:14 PM
Trump is implying that the massive rise in demand is down to theft. There is absolutely no basis for that.

No doubt he was looking for something to push back against the criticism of him for his lack of help in coordinating the procurement of PPE among the states and was told of Cuomo's statement THREE WEEKS previously.

Now, the stories should of course acknowledge that Cuomo did earlier raise the issue. Doesn't change Trump's attempt, once again, at blame shifting though.

Look....Trump is a fvckin clown of the highest order and cant string 2 coherent thoughts together

Non stop verbal diarhea about fvckin everything

He makes it very easy for the media to take things he says and spin them into things he didn't say, but flat out fabrications like this only help him because he can say.....seee, what did I tell you FAKE NEWS

There was no spin.

He flat out blamed the rocketing demand on theft at a time when medical staff in the NYC region are under immense pressure from the huge and increasing influx of patients.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2020, 12:30:51 AM
Well then maybe Cuomo should have kept his fvckin mouth shut and not said that  he was having the NYSP investigate the theft of all types of medical equipment from hospitals that was showing up for resale elsewhere
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2020, 11:59:09 AM
Cuomo brought it up three weeks ago in reference to reports that thefts had taken place. He hasn't mentioned it being a factor in the extreme shortages they're struggling to keep up with, despite it being a daily topic of discussion. Every hospital around is rationing masks and putting out policies on how to preserve them. You seriously saying that management are not closely watching the supplies the past few weeks, especially after Cuomo's warning?

Trump, on the other hand, is blaming staff theft for the huge rise in demand and current shortages, NOT the pandemic- level surge in patients with a highly contagious and dangerous disease. He's literally saying it's like Goodfellas, where the booze is unloaded off the truck and sold out the back door of Sonny's restaurant. He's telling all those desperate doctors, nurses, nurses aides, custodians and porters that it's their own fault they've no PPE, that there are a bunch of immoral thieves among their ranks. No doubt he's also trying to push a button or two among his base about those scummy, big city liberals and immigrants.

The two are not the same thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2020, 12:31:24 PM
Attack him all the time about everyone, even for saying things that Democrats are saying themselves

It's wearing thin and it's not working
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2020, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2020, 12:31:24 PM
Attack him all the time about everyone, even for saying things that Democrats are saying themselves

It's wearing thin and it's not working

I agree its not working.

But it was not the same thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2020, 01:51:08 PM
Don't know if you're a Jonah Goldberg fan whitey, but he seems to share at least some of your stated misgivings about Trump:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trump-daily-briefings-shine-light-on-his-inadequacy/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=blog-post&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=more-in&utm_term=first (https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trump-daily-briefings-shine-light-on-his-inadequacy/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=blog-post&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=more-in&utm_term=first)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2020, 01:51:08 PM
Don't know if you're a Jonah Goldberg fan whitey, but he seems to share at least some of your stated misgivings about Trump:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trump-daily-briefings-shine-light-on-his-inadequacy/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=blog-post&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=more-in&utm_term=first (https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trump-daily-briefings-shine-light-on-his-inadequacy/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=blog-post&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=more-in&utm_term=first)

I like Jonah Goldberg

I would consider myself somewhat of a "Never Trumper"

There are so many smart and accomplished people in the Republican Party and this clown has hijacked it.   

The problem is if the Republicans put up a centrist, like Romney, the Democrats will just completely assassinate his/her character (in the same way the Republicans did to Obama).  So fvck it, in for a penny in for a pound......fight fire with fire and give them a set of brass knuckles right into the mouth

From my vantage point the Democrats are as big a shower of cvnts as Trump and his followers. Fabricating phony dossiers and feeding them to partisan FBI agents to spy on a campaign is about as low as anything Trump ever did. It puts Watergate in the Hapenny place

So by constantly being outraged about everything all the time, the Democrats are actually helping Trump because people have just tuned out.

If anyone wants to really understand what's happening with Trump read "The Fifth Risk" by Michael Lewis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2020, 06:43:41 PM
Book tip noted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2020, 06:33:17 PM
Georgia governor Brian Kemp (R) announces last night that he was ordering shelter in place because he has just heard that the virus could be spread by asymptomatic people. :o

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490758-georgia-governor-says-he-didnt-know-asymptomatic-people-could-spread%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490758-georgia-governor-says-he-didnt-know-asymptomatic-people-could-spread%3famp)

Where do they come up with these people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2020, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2020, 06:33:17 PM
Georgia governor Brian Kemp (R) announces last night that he was ordering shelter in place because he has just heard that the virus could be spread by asymptomatic people. :o

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490758-georgia-governor-says-he-didnt-know-asymptomatic-people-could-spread%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490758-georgia-governor-says-he-didnt-know-asymptomatic-people-could-spread%3famp)

Where do they come up with these people?

And the CDC headquartered in Atlanta


He should resign by the end of the day (if that's what he actually said)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 02, 2020, 08:35:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2020, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2020, 06:33:17 PM
Georgia governor Brian Kemp (R) announces last night that he was ordering shelter in place because he has just heard that the virus could be spread by asymptomatic people. :o

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490758-georgia-governor-says-he-didnt-know-asymptomatic-people-could-spread%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490758-georgia-governor-says-he-didnt-know-asymptomatic-people-could-spread%3famp)

Where do they come up with these people?

And the CDC headquartered in Atlanta


He should resign by the end of the day (if that's what he actually said)

You can view what he said in the video at the link. He will walk it back somehow and suffer no real consequences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2020, 08:40:30 PM
Is anyone shocked by the guy who did this commercial?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q1cfjh6VfE
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2020, 08:56:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2020, 08:40:30 PM
Is anyone shocked by the guy who did this commercial?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q1cfjh6VfE

No doubt he's some element of fundamentalist christian too who's "skeptical" of science and "experts".

I wonder if the old truck and the chainsaw are even his own?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2020, 09:00:38 PM
Probably not.

Meanwhile, one of his state's senators is making a name for herself. She should be in jail.

QuoteU.S. Sen. Kelly Loeffler's most recent financial disclosures show that millions of dollars in stocks were sold on her behalf at the same time Congress was dealing with the impact of the coronavirus.

The largest transactions — and the most politically problematic — involve $18.7 million in sales of Intercontinental Exchange stock in three separate deals dated Feb. 26 and March 11. Loeffler is a former executive with ICE, and her husband, Jeff Sprecher, is the CEO of the company, which owns the New York Stock Exchange among other financial marketplaces.

During the same time period reflected on reports filed late Tuesday, the couple also sold shares in retail stores such as Lululemon and T.J. Maxx and invested in a company that makes COVID-19 protective garments. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution got the first look at these reports, covering mid-February through mid-March and shedding new light on Loeffler's financial transactions during the pandemic. Previous reports — which have put Loeffler in the national spotlight — covered her trading during the first six weeks of 2020.

Loeffler provided the numbers to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and they were more exact than what would appear on a federal campaign finance disclosure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2020, 09:07:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2020, 09:00:38 PM
Probably not.

Meanwhile, one of his state's senators is making a name for herself. She should be in jail.

QuoteU.S. Sen. Kelly Loeffler's most recent financial disclosures show that millions of dollars in stocks were sold on her behalf at the same time Congress was dealing with the impact of the coronavirus.

The largest transactions — and the most politically problematic — involve $18.7 million in sales of Intercontinental Exchange stock in three separate deals dated Feb. 26 and March 11. Loeffler is a former executive with ICE, and her husband, Jeff Sprecher, is the CEO of the company, which owns the New York Stock Exchange among other financial marketplaces.

During the same time period reflected on reports filed late Tuesday, the couple also sold shares in retail stores such as Lululemon and T.J. Maxx and invested in a company that makes COVID-19 protective garments. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution got the first look at these reports, covering mid-February through mid-March and shedding new light on Loeffler's financial transactions during the pandemic. Previous reports — which have put Loeffler in the national spotlight — covered her trading during the first six weeks of 2020.

Loeffler provided the numbers to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and they were more exact than what would appear on a federal campaign finance disclosure.

While it makes a for good headline I'm not sure there's a whole lot here. There were several well respected Wall Street figures publicly predicting at least a 50% drop in the stock market by Mid February. Plus she doesn't trade her own portfolio. For anything to be considered "insider trading" they must be acting in information that both is material and non public......the information was public by the time her advisor acted in it

Burr is the one who's in real trouble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2020, 09:15:28 PM
I haven't followed it since the initial headlines came out, but was her conduct not similar to Burr's?

You'd think these poltiicians would learn after Rep. Chris Collins was convicted and is now sitting waiting to go to prison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2020, 09:18:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2020, 09:15:28 PM
I haven't followed it since the initial headlines came out, but was her conduct not similar to Burr's?

You'd think these poltiicians would learn after Rep. Chris Collins was convicted and is now sitting waiting to go to prison.

Well perception is everything.....the actions of both appear inappropriate

The difference is (1) he traded his own account and placed his own trades (2) he placed the trades before it was publicly known what the outcome could be after having received a classified briefing (3) he placed the trades while publicly talking up the economy and stock market
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on April 02, 2020, 09:52:19 PM
Its hard to ridicule anyone from the states when he have the elected nutjobs saying they believe in Noah's Ark and that God has created the Corona to punish us for abortion   :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 02, 2020, 10:30:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 02, 2020, 09:52:19 PM
Its hard to ridicule anyone from the states when he have the elected nutjobs saying they believe in Noah's Ark and that God has created the Corona to punish us for abortion   :o

The Scotch-Irish played a big part in influencing the Bible Belt region in the US
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2020, 10:56:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 02, 2020, 09:52:19 PM
Its hard to ridicule anyone from the states when he have the elected nutjobs saying they believe in Noah's Ark and that God has created the Corona to punish us for abortion   :o
joe exotic got 18% of the vote in governors race In Oklahoma so there's that .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2020, 11:19:29 PM
Nope - he got 18% in the Libertarian primary. A big difference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2020, 11:33:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2020, 11:19:29 PM
Nope - he got 18% in the Libertarian primary. A big difference.
i wasn't paying as much attention as you were obviously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2020, 11:41:19 PM
Obviously not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2020, 01:35:25 AM
I thought it was the general election too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 03, 2020, 02:02:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2020, 06:43:41 PM
Book tip noted.

If you don't have the time to read it, it's discussed on this podcast

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-is-the-fifth-risk-with-michael-lewis/id1265845136?i=1000425713129
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 03, 2020, 06:35:03 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 02, 2020, 09:52:19 PM
Its hard to ridicule anyone from the states when he have the elected nutjobs saying they believe in Noah's Ark and that God has created the Corona to punish us for abortion   :o

Really???

And how did the elected nutjobs get there? Clue is in the name  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2020, 12:20:10 PM
Trump now has Jared f**king Kushner in charge of "organizing" the masks and ventilators from the federal end. That fuckwit isn't qualified to organize a piss-up in a brewery.

Cuomo is right. The states are on their own.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 04, 2020, 05:12:18 AM
I have a lot of Michael Lewis stuff on "Audible" and for those of you who want to really make themselves freak out "A Very Stable Genius" as well. I can forward at least one copy of each to one person. Pm me and I will see what they will let me away with.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 08, 2020, 04:30:49 PM
Bernie drops out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 08, 2020, 07:24:44 PM
I hope the Berniecrats rally around Biden now. I'll give them a day to lick their wounds before asking them what their thoughts are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 08, 2020, 07:43:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 08, 2020, 07:24:44 PM
I hope the Berniecrats rally around Biden now. I'll give them a day to lick their wounds before asking them what their thoughts are.

Difference is last time Bernie got flat out cheated by the DNC so his supporters rightfully felt aggrieved.

This time he got a clear run at it and came up short. I can't imagine anything but a full endorsement very very soon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 08, 2020, 07:47:03 PM

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Bernie Sanders is OUT! Thank you to Elizabeth Warren. If not for her, Bernie would have won almost every state on Super Tuesday! This ended just like the Democrats & the DNC wanted, same as the Crooked Hillary fiasco. The Bernie people should come to the Republican Party, TRADE!
4:49 PM · Apr 8, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
34.7K
Retweets
151.6K
Likes

Trump is the world's greatest troll.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 09, 2020, 12:32:12 AM
Yes, come on over to Trump and the GOP, Bernie bros!

You've got so much in common with those who don't give a shit about healthcare and the safety net for poor people, education costs, the state of the environment, humane treatment of illegal immigrants and self-dealing in government!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 12:45:12 AM
So who's Biden going to put on his ticket as a running mate? I hope he picks Warren. She's basically a younger, smarter, and female Bernie with a better legislative track record.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 09, 2020, 01:08:42 AM
Klobuchar.

Harris, maybe.

Can't see Warren.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 09, 2020, 01:12:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 12:45:12 AM
So who's Biden going to put on his ticket as a running mate? I hope he picks Warren. She's basically a younger, smarter, and female Bernie with a better legislative track record.

there goes the whitey alarm bell
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on April 09, 2020, 07:58:16 AM
Why is Sanders keeping his delegates ?  Reports I read mentioned keeping influence, but I don't understand that if there's only one candidate left.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on April 09, 2020, 08:33:04 AM
Is parachuting Coumo in all media chat & a non starter?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:52:02 AM
fuckin hell,
   Biden doesn't really come across as the sharpest tool in the box either.

'merica really is couped as you can see Trump getting another term even with his dementia and incoherent ramblings.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on April 09, 2020, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:52:02 AM
fuckin hell,
   Biden doesn't really come across as the sharpest tool in the box either.

'merica really is couped as you can see Trump getting another term even with his dementia and incoherent ramblings.
I think Biden's VP will be the most important VP in a long long time.
(if he wins the election of course, that's probably too close to call at the moment)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 09, 2020, 11:38:28 AM
I think he'll pick a woman and I'd say the candidates in order of likelihood are

Warren
Harris
Klobuchar
Abrams

I have an intense dislike of Warren and Harris, I like Klobuchar and am indifferent to Abrams

In terms of qualifications, I think Warren is probably the most qualified, especially given what consumers will be dealing with coming out of the crisis


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 11:53:37 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:52:02 AM
fuckin hell,
   Biden doesn't really come across as the sharpest tool in the box either.

'merica really is couped as you can see Trump getting another term even with his dementia and incoherent ramblings.

Funny sort of dementia that is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 11:53:37 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:52:02 AM
fuckin hell,
   Biden doesn't really come across as the sharpest tool in the box either.

'merica really is couped as you can see Trump getting another term even with his dementia and incoherent ramblings.

Funny sort of dementia that is.

classic onset I'd say;

Common early symptoms of dementia
memory loss.
difficulty concentrating.
finding it hard to carry out familiar daily tasks, such as getting confused over the correct change when shopping.
struggling to follow a conversation or find the right word.
being confused about time and place.
mood changes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 09, 2020, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 09, 2020, 08:33:04 AM
Is parachuting Coumo in all media chat & a non starter?

Cuomo has enough on his plate in his current job.

And when this first wave is done, there are going to be the post-mortems about the initial response, where, good and all as he has been through this, Cuomo was slower to react than the likes of Newsome and DeWine, two men who are going to come out of this with a huge amount of credit.

Although Cuomo still compares very favourably to the Republicans in places like Wisconsin, Florida and Kansas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:14:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 11:53:37 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:52:02 AM
fuckin hell,
   Biden doesn't really come across as the sharpest tool in the box either.

'merica really is couped as you can see Trump getting another term even with his dementia and incoherent ramblings.

Funny sort of dementia that is.

classic onset I'd say;

Common early symptoms of dementia
memory loss.
difficulty concentrating.
finding it hard to carry out familiar daily tasks, such as getting confused over the correct change when shopping.
struggling to follow a conversation or find the right word.
being confused about time and place.
mood changes.

He comes across as very sharp at those White House press briefings. Not pleasant or nice but sharp nonetheless. Like when he asked the Hong Kong paper lady this week did she work for China. And she did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 04:36:53 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:14:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 11:53:37 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:52:02 AM
fuckin hell,
   Biden doesn't really come across as the sharpest tool in the box either.

'merica really is couped as you can see Trump getting another term even with his dementia and incoherent ramblings.

Funny sort of dementia that is.

classic onset I'd say;

Common early symptoms of dementia
memory loss.
difficulty concentrating.
finding it hard to carry out familiar daily tasks, such as getting confused over the correct change when shopping.
struggling to follow a conversation or find the right word.
being confused about time and place.
mood changes.

He comes across as very sharp at those White House press briefings. Not pleasant or nice but sharp nonetheless. Like when he asked the Hong Kong paper lady this week did she work for China. And she did.
sharp?

Sweet lord, your standards are low, but compared to Pence he's a rocket scientist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 04:36:53 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:14:21 PM
He comes across as very sharp at those White House press briefings. Not pleasant or nice but sharp nonetheless. Like when he asked the Hong Kong paper lady this week did she work for China. And she did.
sharp?

Sweet lord, your standards are low, but compared to Pence he's a rocket scientist.

Look at the exchange with the Hong Kong paper journo. He played her like a banjo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 05:27:24 PM
Joe Biden cannot from a Democrat point of view debate trump in a live televised event he can't put 2 sentences together without getting lost ,how the Democrats accomplish that will be another thing . I don't think trump has dementia but Biden has something even after events when he is being led to a vehicle to leave he really looks like he has no clue where he is or what's going on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 09, 2020, 05:31:31 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 04:36:53 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:14:21 PM
He comes across as very sharp at those White House press briefings. Not pleasant or nice but sharp nonetheless. Like when he asked the Hong Kong paper lady this week did she work for China. And she did.
sharp?

Sweet lord, your standards are low, but compared to Pence he's a rocket scientist.

Look at the exchange with the Hong Kong paper journo. He played her like a banjo.

There is absolutely no doubt that he is the master of bluster and bullshit and can make things up as he goes along, often contradicting what he said five minutes earlier.

Now if he had to study up and think of honest, considered answers, he might appear a little different.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 05:27:24 PM
Joe Biden cannot from a Democrat point of view debate trump in a live televised event he can't put 2 sentences together without getting lost ,how the Democrats accomplish that will be another thing . I don't think trump has dementia but Biden has something even after events when he is being led to a vehicle to leave he really looks like he has no clue where he is or what's going on.

Have you ever heard Trump trying to speak?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 05:27:24 PM
Joe Biden cannot from a Democrat point of view debate trump in a live televised event he can't put 2 sentences together without getting lost ,how the Democrats accomplish that will be another thing . I don't think trump has dementia but Biden has something even after events when he is being led to a vehicle to leave he really looks like he has no clue where he is or what's going on.

Have you ever heard Trump trying to speak?
do you think joe can hold up in a debate against trump ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 05:27:24 PM
Joe Biden cannot from a Democrat point of view debate trump in a live televised event he can't put 2 sentences together without getting lost ,how the Democrats accomplish that will be another thing . I don't think trump has dementia but Biden has something even after events when he is being led to a vehicle to leave he really looks like he has no clue where he is or what's going on.

Have you ever heard Trump trying to speak?
do you think joe can hold up in a debate against trump ?
Do you answer every question with a question?

But to answer yours, I think Biden would give Trump a hiding in a debate like he did with Paul Ryan in the VP debate way back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptqDRfn_-M
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2020, 12:17:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 05:27:24 PM
Joe Biden cannot from a Democrat point of view debate trump in a live televised event he can't put 2 sentences together without getting lost ,how the Democrats accomplish that will be another thing . I don't think trump has dementia but Biden has something even after events when he is being led to a vehicle to leave he really looks like he has no clue where he is or what's going on.

Have you ever heard Trump trying to speak?
do you think joe can hold up in a debate against trump ?
Do you answer every question with a question?

But to answer yours, I think Biden would give Trump a hiding in a debate like he did with Paul Ryan in the VP debate way back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptqDRfn_-M

Joe is a very good debater and I think he would hold his own against Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 10, 2020, 01:30:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 10, 2020, 12:17:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 05:27:24 PM
Joe Biden cannot from a Democrat point of view debate trump in a live televised event he can't put 2 sentences together without getting lost ,how the Democrats accomplish that will be another thing . I don't think trump has dementia but Biden has something even after events when he is being led to a vehicle to leave he really looks like he has no clue where he is or what's going on.

Have you ever heard Trump trying to speak?
do you think joe can hold up in a debate against trump ?
Do you answer every question with a question?

But to answer yours, I think Biden would give Trump a hiding in a debate like he did with Paul Ryan in the VP debate way back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptqDRfn_-M

Joe is a very good debater and I think he would hold his own against Trump
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 09, 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 09, 2020, 05:27:24 PM
Joe Biden cannot from a Democrat point of view debate trump in a live televised event he can't put 2 sentences together without getting lost ,how the Democrats accomplish that will be another thing . I don't think trump has dementia but Biden has something even after events when he is being led to a vehicle to leave he really looks like he has no clue where he is or what's going on.

Have you ever heard Trump trying to speak?
do you think joe can hold up in a debate against trump ?
Do you answer every question with a question?

But to answer yours, I think Biden would give Trump a hiding in a debate like he did with Paul Ryan in the VP debate way back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptqDRfn_-M
8 years is a long time ago joe is a different person now unfortunately.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on April 10, 2020, 03:02:14 PM
Heroes of the Pandumbic
https://twitter.com/i/status/1247595781806268418
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2020, 03:07:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 10, 2020, 03:02:14 PM
Heroes of the Pandumbic
https://twitter.com/i/status/1247595781806268418

There has never been, and hopefully never again will be, an administration like this, where the main qualification and audition for a job is to shamelessly lie and debase yourself at the feet of the Dear Leader, especially if on tv.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2020, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2020, 03:07:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 10, 2020, 03:02:14 PM
Heroes of the Pandumbic
https://twitter.com/i/status/1247595781806268418

There has never been, and hopefully never again will be, an administration like this, where the main qualification and audition for a job is to shamelessly lie and debase yourself at the feet of the Dear Leader, especially if on tv.


So as a resident of New York, why are you directing your ire towards Trump and not where it belongs

https://www.google.com/amp/s/champ.gothamist.com/champ/gothamist/news/missteps-mayor-bill-de-blasios-coronavirus-response
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 10, 2020, 05:00:14 PM
Whitey... you are the king of "false equivalency"..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2020, 05:21:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on April 10, 2020, 05:00:14 PM
Whitey... you are the king of "false equivalency"..

So you think DeBlasio didn't contribute to the tragedy unfolding in NYC?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2020, 05:25:02 PM
Indeed omochain.

DeBlasio is not a great mayor by any stretch, and he, in retrospect, appears to have been listening to the wrong advice as we got into the second week of March. I would add he is one of a many, many politicians across the planet who did the same. Gavin Newsome and Mike DeWine were not typical. Just last week, that idiotic California Congressman Devin Nunes (one of the arch Trump toadies) had the nerve to criticise Newsome to shutting down the schools.

What any of that has to do with Trump stacking his administration (when he does actually bother staffing important positions and committees) with unqualified, sycophantic right wing news talking heads, I'm not sure.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2020, 05:30:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2020, 05:25:02 PM
Indeed omochain.

DeBlasio is not a great mayor by any stretch, and he, in retrospect, appears to have been listening to the wrong advice as we got into the second week of March. I would add he is one of a many, many politicians across the planet who did the same. Gavin Newsome and Mike DeWine were not typical. Just last week, that idiotic California Congressman Devin Nunes (one of the arch Trump toadies) had the nerve to criticise Newsome to shutting down the schools.

What any of that has to do with Trump stacking his administration (when he does actually bother staffing important positions and committees) with unqualified, sycophantic right wing news talking heads, I'm not sure.

You do realize the tweet you replied to was described as "Hero's of the Pandumbic" by armaghniac ???

Would DeBlasio not fall into that category?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2020, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 10, 2020, 05:30:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2020, 05:25:02 PM
Indeed omochain.

DeBlasio is not a great mayor by any stretch, and he, in retrospect, appears to have been listening to the wrong advice as we got into the second week of March. I would add he is one of a many, many politicians across the planet who did the same. Gavin Newsome and Mike DeWine were not typical. Just last week, that idiotic California Congressman Devin Nunes (one of the arch Trump toadies) had the nerve to criticise Newsome to shutting down the schools.

What any of that has to do with Trump stacking his administration (when he does actually bother staffing important positions and committees) with unqualified, sycophantic right wing news talking heads, I'm not sure.

You do realize the tweet you replied to was described as "Hero's of the Pandumbic" by armaghniac ???

Would DeBlasio not fall into that category?

Possibly. I was pretty scathing of DeBlasio myself in the lead-up to the school shutdown when the writing was well on the wall with events in Italy. Before that I would give him some benefit of the doubt as it was not at all clear how things could proceed, but I may be being generous in that.

But in this post I was responding to McAneney or whatever her name is, as generally typifying the type of unqualified sycophant that Trump hires to work in the government, as opposed to the specific vacuous bullshit she was spewing in that particular clip.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 11, 2020, 12:36:53 AM
Apologies for the long post but the commentary is behind a firewall


Russian Disinformation Fed the FBI's Trump Investigation
Some answers and some new questions from newly declassified parts of an inspector general's report.
By Ron Johnson
April 10, 2020 4:02 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
284

The FBI crest outside the J. Edgar Hoover Building in Washington, March 12, 2019.
PHOTO: LEAH MILLIS/REUTERS
Declassified footnotes to a Justice Department inspector general report show that the Federal Bureau of Investigation team investigating members of the Trump campaign received classified reports in 2017 identifying key pieces of the Steele dossier as products of a Russian disinformation campaign. This might be only the tip of the iceberg because other recently declassified information demonstrates that even more disinformation may have been planted in Christopher Steele's reporting.

Let that sink in. The FBI knew that at least some of its evidence against the Trump campaign, and maybe more, was likely part of a Russian disinformation campaign—evidence from a source that was "central and essential" for getting the first FISA warrant. It isn't clear what if anything the FBI did to determine whether their investigation was based in substantial part on Russian disinformation.

Yet the FBI assistant director in charge of the investigation, Bill Priestap, told the inspector general that as of May 2017 (when Robert Mueller took over as special counsel), the FBI "didn't have any indication whatsoever" that their evidence was part of a Russian disinformation campaign.


I first learned all this in late December 2019, when a member of my staff reviewed the classified version of the inspector general's report and asked me to meet him in a secure room under the Capitol. As he walked me through the four footnotes, my immediate reaction was that the American people needed to know this information as soon as possible. My colleague Sen. Chuck Grassley and I began pressing Attorney General William Barr, and eventually acting Director of National Intelligence Richard Grenell, for full declassification of these footnotes. That's why they're now public.

The FBI team's handling of these intelligence reports seems consistent with how it ran the entire investigation. From the opening of the investigation, the FBI team kept accumulating exculpatory information. Yet rather than wind the investigation down, they ramped it up. Minimally intrusive open-source searches became Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrants and confidential human sources targeting campaign staffers.

Then it got worse. The FBI team excluded exculpatory information from its FISA application; it ignored exculpatory evidence provided by another U.S. government agency; and, when that later became an issue, an FBI attorney doctored an email to cover it up. Given all that, it's not surprising that the FBI, on learning their evidence was the product of a Russian disinformation campaign, simply shrugged it off.

As Mr. Grassley and I wrote in our declassification request to Mr. Barr, these footnotes provide "insight essential for an accurate evaluation of the entire investigation." Consider these questions:


• Why did former FBI Director James Comey and former FBI general counsel James Baker refuse to have their security clearances reinstated before they were interviewed by the inspector general? Was it so they wouldn't have to explain this information?

• Which members of the FBI team reviewed these reports? Did Lisa Page and Peter Strzok, who referred to the opening of the investigation as an "insurance policy"? Did the FBI attorney who doctored the email? Did Mr. Mueller?

• What, if anything, did the FBI do to follow up on these reports?

• Did the FBI team have access to other reports like this?

• Is this another example of the FBI team's sloppiness, or is it sufficient to show their ignorance was willful?

The Steele dossier already ranks as one of the dirtiest political tricks of all time. The Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign paid for it, laundered it through friends and allies in the Justice and State departments, and spun it into a full-blown FBI investigation of her political rival. Then, after Donald Trump was elected, it was used as a political cudgel to bludgeon his administration and set up an 18-month special counsel investigation. Now it's been revealed the FBI had evidence that it was based in substantial part on a Russian disinformation campaign.

Last month, my committee's vote to obtain a subpoena for Andrii Telizhenko—a former Ukrainian diplomat who later worked for a U.S. Democratic political consulting firm—was delayed because of last-minute concern that information he might provide could be part of Russian disinformation (a cloak-and-dagger operation to derail that subpoena also needs to be revealed). So I've heard a lot of concern and outrage from my colleagues across the aisle about the perils of "foreign interference" and the need to steer well clear of anything remotely suggestive of Russian disinformation.


Clearly, the FBI did not exhibit similar concern and act accordingly. It also will be interesting to see how many of my Democratic colleagues will join tenacious oversight efforts to determine how the FBI misused actual Russian disinformation.

Mr. Johnson, a Wisconsin Republican, is chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 11, 2020, 04:03:41 AM
Whitey.. I only have three words in response to your post... Ron Johnson, Wisconsin.
I admire your energy but you should spend more time researching your sources.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 11, 2020, 06:03:38 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 11, 2020, 04:03:41 AM
Whitey.. I only have three words in response to your post... Ron Johnson, Wisconsin.
I admire your energy but you should spend more time researching your sources.
whitey you should look for a more reliable source like cnn or msnbc what were you thinking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on April 11, 2020, 09:18:24 AM
Number of reported Covid-19 deaths per million of population in the US:

1   New York    406.55
2   New Jersey    219.55
3   Louisiana    164.13
4   Michigan    128.89
5   Connecticut    125.31
6   Massachusetts    90.76
7   Washington    71.18
8   DC    62.81
9   Colorado    49.02
10   Rhode Is    46.67
11   Illinois    46.64
12   Indiana    46.15
13   Georgia    43.81
14   Vermont    38.40
15   Nevada    37.78
16   Delaware    35.56
17   Pennsylvania    35.35
18   Maryland    29.48
19   Mississippi    27.33
20   Oklahoma    23.16
21   Wisconsin    22.46
22   Florida    22.29
23   Ohio    20.09
24   Kentucky    20.00
25   Missouri    17.50
26   Kansas    17.24
27   Alabama    16.67
28   New Hampshire    16.67
29   California    16.08
30   Idaho    15.63
31   South Carolina    15.32
32   Tennessee    15.31
33   Arizona    15.16
34   Virginia    15.13
35   Maine    12.78
36   Oregon    12.31
37   Minnesota    10.75
38   Puerto Rico    10.54
39   Iowa    10.16
40   Texas    9.86
41   Alaska    9.86
42   New Mexico    9.22
43   North Carolina    9.06
44   Nebraska    8.95
45   North Dakota    8.57
46   Arkansas    8.00
47   South Dakota    7.36
48   Utah    6.07
49   Montana    6.00
50   Hawaii    5.71
51   West Virgina    2.70
52   Wyoming    -  
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 11, 2020, 01:35:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 11, 2020, 06:03:38 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 11, 2020, 04:03:41 AM
Whitey.. I only have three words in response to your post... Ron Johnson, Wisconsin.
I admire your energy but you should spend more time researching your sources.
whitey you should look for a more reliable source like cnn or msnbc what were you thinking.

Well the only other sources reporting on it (at this stage) are The Examiner, Fox News and the NY Post

Where's CNN, MSNBC, NY Times and Wa Po? Doesn't fit their narrative

So now we have documentary evidence, directly from the Mueller report, that the Clinton campaigns smear was fueled in part by information provided by the Russian intelligence services and that the FBI knew that 3 years ago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 11, 2020, 11:28:32 PM
Keeping on top of the important things as thousands of Americans are dying.

(https://i.postimg.cc/gkbDP7rY/20200411-152336.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 12, 2020, 12:40:18 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 11, 2020, 11:28:32 PM
Keeping on top of the important things as thousands of Americans are dying.

(https://i.postimg.cc/gkbDP7rY/20200411-152336.jpg)

If you are not familiar with the utter insanity of OAN, let the redoubtable John Oliver be your guide!  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnSILVWDKL8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnSILVWDKL8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 06:43:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2020, 01:35:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 11, 2020, 06:03:38 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 11, 2020, 04:03:41 AM
Whitey.. I only have three words in response to your post... Ron Johnson, Wisconsin.
I admire your energy but you should spend more time researching your sources.
whitey you should look for a more reliable source like cnn or msnbc what were you thinking.

Well the only other sources reporting on it (at this stage) are The Examiner, Fox News and the NY Post

Where's CNN, MSNBC, NY Times and Wa Po? Doesn't fit their narrative

So now we have documentary evidence, directly from the Mueller report, that the Clinton campaigns smear was fueled in part by information provided by the Russian intelligence services and that the FBI knew that 3 years ago

In other words it's a BS story.

Next!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on April 13, 2020, 11:00:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RdwCif8tMI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 03:01:08 PM
https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2020/04/13/new-york-times-disappears-coverage-biden-tara-reade/

"The New York Times stealth-edited its article on the sexual-assault allegation against Joe Biden by his former Senate staffer Tara Reade just minutes after it was published on Sunday morning, removing all references in a key paragraph to the multiple past accusations by seven women that the former vice president had touched them inappropriately...

According to a copy of the Times' article saved by the Internet archive Wayback Machine, the Times originally reported: "No other allegation about sexual assault surfaced in the course of reporting, nor did any former Biden staff members corroborate any details of Ms. Reade's allegation. The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable."

That paragraph now reads: "No other allegation about sexual assault surfaced in the course of reporting, nor did any former Biden staff members corroborate any details of Ms. Reade's allegation. The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 13, 2020, 03:59:45 PM
hotair.com - how fitting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 04:18:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 13, 2020, 03:59:45 PM
hotair.com - how fitting

Exactly.....the NY Times is full of hotair!

(Why don't you try and explain the "editing" that occurred while you are at it)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 04:22:10 PM
I just checked the article again on my phone (I read it yesterday) - it still refers to "seven other women who had complained about Mr. Biden", but it doesn't detail what their complaint was about, but says that they had nothing new to add, but "several said they believed Ms. Reade's account".

Edit: in paragraph above it says:

"Last year, Ms Reade and seven other women came forward to accuse Mr Biden of kissing, hugging or touching them in ways that made them feel uncomfortable"

Links in that sentence connect to a March 31 2019 story titled "Joe Biden Scrambles to stem crisis after Luy Flores's allegation"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 04:31:24 PM
Yeah, its still there on the website too.

What a pile of shit.

WASHINGTON — A former Senate aide who last year accused Joseph R. Biden Jr. of inappropriate touching has made an allegation of sexual assault against the former vice president, the Democratic Party's presumptive presidential nominee this fall.

The former aide, Tara Reade, who briefly worked as a staff assistant in Mr. Biden's Senate office, told The New York Times that in 1993, Mr. Biden pinned her to a wall in a Senate building, reached under her clothing and penetrated her with his fingers. A friend said that Ms. Reade told her the details of the allegation at the time. Another friend and a brother of Ms. Reade's said she told them over the years about a traumatic sexual incident involving Mr. Biden.

A spokeswoman for Mr. Biden said the allegation was false. In interviews, several people who worked in the Senate office with Ms. Reade said they did not recall any talk of such an incident or similar behavior by Mr. Biden toward her or any women. Two office interns who worked directly with Ms. Reade said they were unaware of the allegation or any treatment that troubled her.

Last year, Ms. Reade and seven other women came forward to accuse Mr. Biden of kissing, hugging or touching them in ways that made them feel uncomfortable. Ms. Reade told The Times then that Mr. Biden had publicly stroked her neck, wrapped his fingers in her hair and touched her in ways that made her uncomfortable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 04:33:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 04:22:10 PM
I just checked the article again on my phone (I read it yesterday) - it still refers to "seven other women who had complained about Mr. Biden", but it doesn't detail what their complaint was about, but says that they had nothing new to add, but "several said they believed Ms. Reade's account".

Edit: in paragraph above it says:

"Last year, Ms Reade and seven other women came forward to accuse Mr Biden of kissing, hugging or touching them in ways that made them feel uncomfortable"

Links in that sentence connect to a March 31 2019 story titled "Joe Biden Scrambles to stem crisis after Luy Flores's allegation"


I'm specifically talking about the edit that removed the following language " beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable."

What do you make of that?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mediaite.com/print/ny-times-deletes-tweet-after-outcry-over-framing-of-report-on-allegation-against-biden/amp/


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 13, 2020, 04:42:13 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html

"Last year, Ms. Reade and seven other women came forward to accuse Mr. Biden of kissing, hugging or touching them in ways that made them feel uncomfortable. Ms. Reade told The Times then that Mr. Biden had publicly stroked her neck, wrapped his fingers in her hair and touched her in ways that made her uncomfortable."

Good job covering that up New York Times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 04:55:38 PM
Quote from: dec on April 13, 2020, 04:42:13 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html

"Last year, Ms. Reade and seven other women came forward to accuse Mr. Biden of kissing, hugging or touching them in ways that made them feel uncomfortable. Ms. Reade told The Times then that Mr. Biden had publicly stroked her neck, wrapped his fingers in her hair and touched her in ways that made her uncomfortable."

Good job covering that up New York Times.

LOL

The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden."

VERSUS

The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable."


Why did they change it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 05:02:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 04:33:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 04:22:10 PM
I just checked the article again on my phone (I read it yesterday) - it still refers to "seven other women who had complained about Mr. Biden", but it doesn't detail what their complaint was about, but says that they had nothing new to add, but "several said they believed Ms. Reade's account".

Edit: in paragraph above it says:

"Last year, Ms Reade and seven other women came forward to accuse Mr Biden of kissing, hugging or touching them in ways that made them feel uncomfortable"

Links in that sentence connect to a March 31 2019 story titled "Joe Biden Scrambles to stem crisis after Luy Flores's allegation"


I'm specifically talking about the edit that removed the following language " beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable."

What do you make of that?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mediaite.com/print/ny-times-deletes-tweet-after-outcry-over-framing-of-report-on-allegation-against-biden/amp/

Not a lot, to be honest.

The allegations are clearly laid out in the story, including the most serious and recent accusation of finger penetration right at the beginning of the story.

The way you were going on I thought they'd removed all reference to the other seven women and what they claimed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 05:09:50 PM
Yes, but him having a pattern of behavior is probably the lost relevant (and damning) part of the story and that part was REMOVED

It wasn't  OMMITTED -it was deemed relevant enough to INCLUDED but was then REMOVED.

Why?


(And last time I checked there was no explanation for the edit.....which there typically is)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 05:25:50 PM
I'm sorry whitey, but the edit you guys are going on about makes absolutely no difference to the seriousness of the story or the stated allegations. As to why, I don't know, maybe some senior editor saw it and questioned why they were defining down "sexual assault" with the original line. I don't really give a shit. I don't need half a sentence in a newspaper to tell me what to think when the facts are presented.

You need to try harder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 05:25:50 PM
I'm sorry whitey, but the edit you guys are going on about makes absolutely no difference to the seriousness of the story or the stated allegations. As to why, I don't know, maybe some senior editor saw it and questioned why they were defining down "sexual assault" with the original line. I don't really give a shit. I don't need half a sentence in a newspaper to tell me what to think when the facts are presented.

You need to try harder.

Were any articles on Brett Kavanaugh "stealth edited" by the NY Times to minimize the accusations against him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 05:45:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 05:25:50 PM
I'm sorry whitey, but the edit you guys are going on about makes absolutely no difference to the seriousness of the story or the stated allegations. As to why, I don't know, maybe some senior editor saw it and questioned why they were defining down "sexual assault" with the original line. I don't really give a shit. I don't need half a sentence in a newspaper to tell me what to think when the facts are presented.

You need to try harder.

Were any articles on Brett Kavanaugh "stealth edited" by the NY Times to minimize the accusations against him?

I don't know.

But how does that "stealth edit" minimize the accusations against Biden?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:10:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 05:45:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 05:25:50 PM
I'm sorry whitey, but the edit you guys are going on about makes absolutely no difference to the seriousness of the story or the stated allegations. As to why, I don't know, maybe some senior editor saw it and questioned why they were defining down "sexual assault" with the original line. I don't really give a shit. I don't need half a sentence in a newspaper to tell me what to think when the facts are presented.

You need to try harder.

Were any articles on Brett Kavanaugh "stealth edited" by the NY Times to minimize the accusations against him?

I don't know.

But how does that "stealth edit" minimize the accusations against Biden?

You think the following 2 paragraphs are identical in tone and intent.....I don't. Well agree to disagree then.


"The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden."

VERSUS

The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:10:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 05:45:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 05:25:50 PM
I'm sorry whitey, but the edit you guys are going on about makes absolutely no difference to the seriousness of the story or the stated allegations. As to why, I don't know, maybe some senior editor saw it and questioned why they were defining down "sexual assault" with the original line. I don't really give a shit. I don't need half a sentence in a newspaper to tell me what to think when the facts are presented.

You need to try harder.

Were any articles on Brett Kavanaugh "stealth edited" by the NY Times to minimize the accusations against him?

I don't know.

But how does that "stealth edit" minimize the accusations against Biden?

You think the following 2 paragraphs are identical in tone and intent.....I don't. Well agree to disagree then.


"The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden."

VERSUS

The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable."

If they were tweets maybe.

But they're not. They're part of long pieces which make clear exactly what the allegations against Biden are, with the most serious (i.e. "grabbing 'em by the pussy") laid out in the second paragraph after 15 seconds of reading.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 06:23:47 PM
Does Donald "I paid to f*** a porn star and paid her off to shut her up because you can grab 'em by the pussy and get away with it if you're rich" Trump seriously think he's going to beat Biden by playing the sexual harassment card? I could see how that would play well with his deplorable base, but I couldn't see it working so well with swing voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 06:29:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 06:23:47 PM
Does Donald "I paid to f*** a porn star and paid her off to shut her up because you can grab 'em by the pussy and get away with it if you're rich" Trump seriously think he's going to beat Biden by playing the sexual harassment card? I could see how that would play well with his deplorable base, but I couldn't see it working so well with swing voters.

It just mind-boggling that he has the brass neck to label Biden "Creepy Joe"! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:32:28 PM
Establishing Patterns of behavior is often the key to investigating decades old sexual assault allegations

They go from saying there is no pattern of sexual misconduct....... except for unwanted hugging kissing and grabbing (LOL-which are all examples of sexual misconduct) to saying there is no pattern of sexual misconduct.....period.

Anyway, I think they have now explained on Twitter that it was edited because "they wanted to remove some imprecise language".  Couldn't make it up

No better than Fox.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 06:23:47 PM
Does Donald "I paid to f*** a porn star and paid her off to shut her up because you can grab 'em by the pussy and get away with it if you're rich" Trump seriously think he's going to beat Biden by playing the sexual harassment card? I could see how that would play well with his deplorable base, but I couldn't see it working so well with swing voters.

All accusers must be believed

I believe Dr Christine Blasey Ford
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 06:41:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:32:28 PM
Establishing Patterns of behavior is often the key to investigating decades old sexual assault allegations

They go from saying there is no pattern of sexual misconduct....... except for unwanted hugging kissing and grabbing (LOL-which are all examples of sexual misconduct) to saying there is no pattern of sexual misconduct.....period.

Anyway, I think they have now explained on Twitter that it was edited because "they wanted to remove some imprecise language".  Couldn't make it up

No better than Fox.

There is simply nothing in that piece which would compromise any investigation.

Had they left out stuff, you might have a case. They didn't, and you don't.

Sorry whitey, but this is pure bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:48:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 06:41:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:32:28 PM
Establishing Patterns of behavior is often the key to investigating decades old sexual assault allegations

They go from saying there is no pattern of sexual misconduct....... except for unwanted hugging kissing and grabbing (LOL-which are all examples of sexual misconduct) to saying there is no pattern of sexual misconduct.....period.

Anyway, I think they have now explained on Twitter that it was edited because "they wanted to remove some imprecise language".  Couldn't make it up

No better than Fox.

There is simply nothing in that piece which would compromise any investigation.

Had they left out stuff, you might have a case. They didn't, and you don't.

Sorry whitey, but this is pure bullshit.

No it's real

They've just handed the Republicans another cudgel with which  to bash their credibility and honesty



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 06:52:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:48:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 06:41:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:32:28 PM
Establishing Patterns of behavior is often the key to investigating decades old sexual assault allegations

They go from saying there is no pattern of sexual misconduct....... except for unwanted hugging kissing and grabbing (LOL-which are all examples of sexual misconduct) to saying there is no pattern of sexual misconduct.....period.

Anyway, I think they have now explained on Twitter that it was edited because "they wanted to remove some imprecise language".  Couldn't make it up

No better than Fox.

There is simply nothing in that piece which would compromise any investigation.

Had they left out stuff, you might have a case. They didn't, and you don't.

Sorry whitey, but this is pure bullshit.

No it's real

They've just handed the Republicans another cudgel with which  to bash their credibility and honesty

I've no doubt the right wing will be all over it.

So what?

Anyone who approaches it with a fair mind will judge the piece, and the right wing bullshit machine, for what they are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
You only need 1% of independents to stop believing what they read in the NYT for this to have a meaningful impact in November
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
You only need 1% of independents to stop believing what they read in the NYT for this to have a meaningful impact in November

Perhaps, but I doubt if anyone who is swayed by this particular "outrage" incident would be someone who would be very open to the Dems anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
You only need 1% of independents to stop believing what they read in the NYT for this to have a meaningful impact in November

Perhaps, but I doubt if anyone who is swayed by this particular "outrage" incident would be someone who would be very open to the Dems anyway.

Small margins is all it takes

How many people believed the Russian Hoax?

Quite a few......but how many were going to vote for him anyway.....shag all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 07:33:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
You only need 1% of independents to stop believing what they read in the NYT for this to have a meaningful impact in November

Perhaps, but I doubt if anyone who is swayed by this particular "outrage" incident would be someone who would be very open to the Dems anyway.

Small margins is all it takes

How many people believed the Russian Hoax?

Quite a few......but how many were going to vote for him anyway.....shag all

Sorry lad, I'm confused!

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 07:41:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
You only need 1% of independents to stop believing what they read in the NYT for this to have a meaningful impact in November

Perhaps, but I doubt if anyone who is swayed by this particular "outrage" incident would be someone who would be very open to the Dems anyway.

Small margins is all it takes

How many people believed the Russian Hoax?

Quite a few......but how many were going to vote for him anyway.....shag all

Help me out here. What do you mean by "Russian hoax"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 07:55:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 07:41:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2020, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
You only need 1% of independents to stop believing what they read in the NYT for this to have a meaningful impact in November

Perhaps, but I doubt if anyone who is swayed by this particular "outrage" incident would be someone who would be very open to the Dems anyway.

Small margins is all it takes

How many people believed the Russian Hoax?

Quite a few......but how many were going to vote for him anyway.....shag all

Help me out here. What do you mean by "Russian hoax"?

You know the fake dossier paid for by Clinton that was fueled by Russian intelligence misinformation, then fed to rogue and corrupt FBI Agents who then forged fabricated and perjured themselves to get FISA warrants on members of Trump campaign
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Oh, you mean the Mueller investigation that resulted in 199 criminal charges, 37 indictments or guilty pleas, and 5 prison sentences. That hoax.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 13, 2020, 08:21:11 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 13, 2020, 03:59:45 PM
hotair.com - how fitting

still true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Oh, you mean the Mueller investigation that resulted in 199 criminal charges, 37 indictments or guilty pleas, and 5 prison sentences. That hoax.

Yes-that one

While we're at it lets unleash a Mueller type open ended investigation of the Democrats and see what you find.  WhenHillary was interviewed by the FBI over the email server she wasn't even under oath. What did the FBI agent say again....."we don't want to go in loaded for bear, because we'll end up working for her"

Anyway.....sit tight. I heard Mr Durham has a world of hurt coming their way pretty soon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 08:40:30 PM
"World of hurt"?

We'll see, but I'll not hold my breath.

Trump wouldn't be able to contain himself if there was anything even hinting at seriously damaging on the way for the "deep state" or the Dems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 13, 2020, 08:57:42 PM
I think everything is going to be OK.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6149054753001

Trumps' Council to re-open America includes  Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner. Chief of staff Mark Meadows' council will also include Mnuchin, Kudlow, Lighthizer and Ross;
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 09:00:41 PM
Quote from: dec on April 13, 2020, 08:57:42 PM
I think everything is going to be OK.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6149054753001

Trumps' Council to re-open America includes  Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner. Chief of staff Mark Meadows' council will also include Mnuchin, Kudlow, Lighthizer and Ross;

Phew. I was worried Ivanka and Jared wouldn't be lending their considerable knowledge and intellectual heft to the process. ::)

Looking at the list, I guess they're there for the public health side??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2020, 09:15:46 PM
Quote from: dec on April 13, 2020, 08:57:42 PM
I think everything is going to be OK.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6149054753001

Trumps' Council to re-open America includes  Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner. Chief of staff Mark Meadows' council will also include Mnuchin, Kudlow, Lighthizer and Ross;
he should have got aoc in theta
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Oh, you mean the Mueller investigation that resulted in 199 criminal charges, 37 indictments or guilty pleas, and 5 prison sentences. That hoax.

Yes-that one

While we're at it lets unleash a Mueller type open ended investigation of the Democrats and see what you find.  WhenHillary was interviewed by the FBI over the email server she wasn't even under oath. What did the FBI agent say again....."we don't want to go in loaded for bear, because we'll end up working for her"

Anyway.....sit tight. I heard Mr Durham has a world of hurt coming their way pretty soon

Would there be anything to be said for another Benghazi investigation, Ted?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 13, 2020, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Oh, you mean the Mueller investigation that resulted in 199 criminal charges, 37 indictments or guilty pleas, and 5 prison sentences. That hoax.

Yes-that one

While we're at it lets unleash a Mueller type open ended investigation of the Democrats and see what you find.  WhenHillary was interviewed by the FBI over the email server she wasn't even under oath. What did the FBI agent say again....."we don't want to go in loaded for bear, because we'll end up working for her"

Anyway.....sit tight. I heard Mr Durham has a world of hurt coming their way pretty soon

Would there be anything to be said for another Benghazi investigation, Ted?

I take it you know there's a significant difference between a congressional inquiry and a special counsel investigation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 13, 2020, 09:55:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Oh, you mean the Mueller investigation that resulted in 199 criminal charges, 37 indictments or guilty pleas, and 5 prison sentences. That hoax.

Yes-that one

While we're at it lets unleash a Mueller type open ended investigation of the Democrats and see what you find.  WhenHillary was interviewed by the FBI over the email server she wasn't even under oath. What did the FBI agent say again....."we don't want to go in loaded for bear, because we'll end up working for her"

Anyway.....sit tight. I heard Mr Durham has a world of hurt coming their way pretty soon

Would there be anything to be said for another Benghazi investigation, Ted?

(https://i.imgur.com/iosHjeB.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 10:18:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 13, 2020, 09:55:58 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iosHjeB.jpg)

The Y axis is the level of conservative outrage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Oh, you mean the Mueller investigation that resulted in 199 criminal charges, 37 indictments or guilty pleas, and 5 prison sentences. That hoax.

Yes-that one

While we're at it lets unleash a Mueller type open ended investigation of the Democrats and see what you find.  WhenHillary was interviewed by the FBI over the email server she wasn't even under oath. What did the FBI agent say again....."we don't want to go in loaded for bear, because we'll end up working for her"

Anyway.....sit tight. I heard Mr Durham has a world of hurt coming their way pretty soon

Would there be anything to be said for another Benghazi investigation, Ted?

I take it you know there's a significant difference between a congressional inquiry and a special counsel investigation?

Yeah. The congressional inquiries were completely unnecessary and nothing but pure political grandstanding.  The special counsel investigation by Mueller was absolutely necessary and resulted in indictments and prison sentences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 10:27:36 PM
It's been a while since we had a bit of whatabout-Hillary-ism. Nice to see it again. Reminds me of a more innocent time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 13, 2020, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 13, 2020, 09:55:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 13, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Oh, you mean the Mueller investigation that resulted in 199 criminal charges, 37 indictments or guilty pleas, and 5 prison sentences. That hoax.

Yes-that one

While we're at it lets unleash a Mueller type open ended investigation of the Democrats and see what you find.  WhenHillary was interviewed by the FBI over the email server she wasn't even under oath. What did the FBI agent say again....."we don't want to go in loaded for bear, because we'll end up working for her"

Anyway.....sit tight. I heard Mr Durham has a world of hurt coming their way pretty soon

Would there be anything to be said for another Benghazi investigation, Ted?

(https://i.imgur.com/iosHjeB.jpg)


They left out Hillary's emails, that would be off the charts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2020, 11:20:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 10:27:36 PM
It's been a while since we had a bit of whatabout-Hillary-ism. Nice to see it again. Reminds me of a more innocent time.
hillary lost to Donald Trump in the election she's  done forget about her , the worst candidate the dems ever put forward so far .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 14, 2020, 12:05:15 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 13, 2020, 11:20:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 10:27:36 PM
It's been a while since we had a bit of whatabout-Hillary-ism. Nice to see it again. Reminds me of a more innocent time.
hillary lost to Donald Trump in the election she's  done forget about her , the worst candidate the dems ever put forward so far .

You're preaching to the converted here. Tell Whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 02:13:55 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 13, 2020, 11:20:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 10:27:36 PM
It's been a while since we had a bit of whatabout-Hillary-ism. Nice to see it again. Reminds me of a more innocent time.
hillary lost to Donald Trump in the election she's  done forget about her , the worst candidate the dems ever put forward so far .

Where does Trump rank for the GOP?

Party of all-time great presidents Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt.

Rolling in their graves.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 14, 2020, 02:29:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2020, 02:13:55 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 13, 2020, 11:20:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 10:27:36 PM
It's been a while since we had a bit of whatabout-Hillary-ism. Nice to see it again. Reminds me of a more innocent time.
hillary lost to Donald Trump in the election she's  done forget about her , the worst candidate the dems ever put forward so far .

Where does Trump rank for the GOP?

Party of all-time great presidents Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt.

Rolling in their graves.
not very high up  and still she lost to him and joe probably will too. The Democrats need to focus on their own party and find a few decent candidates closer to the center to run for president and not spend every minute of the day focusing on trump , it's not working time for a change of tactics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 03:01:19 AM
They're going for Joe BECAUSE he's a centrist.

His problems lie elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 03:02:51 AM
I see that liberal Wisconsin judge won despite the antics of the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 14, 2020, 02:02:42 PM
Been watching Trump's press conferences the last 2 weeks or so for some insight into how things are going there... there's no way the American people can be falling for the shit he's been pulling in these press conferences about how great they're doing and how he "shut it down" way earlier than everyone else.

He got properly rattled yesterday after his ridiculous campaign video and now is the time to hammer it home that he underplayed this and did nothing in February when he should have.

Biden's approvals are way better than Trump and nobody can see him. It might be his best bet to do a Boris and let the opposition dig their own grave while he sends out lackeys to talk for him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 02:21:13 PM
Unfortunately for him, there is an extensive record of his statements freely available, including to people who can also put ads together. And the stories are also starting to come out about how much warning he was in fact getting about the threat early on. But he is constitutionally incapable of admitting to any mistake or less than stellar rating of his own performance. That is how insecure and childish he is.

As to whether enough people will fall for his nonsense again, time will tell. Never mind the coronavirus. The Dems have mountains of ammunition available to them for a multitude of negative ads, just from Trumps own statements and policies, never mind the sexual harrassment/assault allegations and the corruption and self-dealing. But, just watch: let's say an ad is put together about the abduction of babies from the arms of their crying mothers at the Mexican border - Trump will either simply deny he had anything to do with it, or he'll blame Obama or Biden for it. And his followers will swallow it up, especially as many of them have absolutely zero problem with the policy anyway as those desperate people are, in their minds, criminals first and human beings somewhere well down the list.

That said, all of the elections since Trump was elected would suggest that the Democratic base is going to be extremely motivated this year, not least last week in Wisconsin when the GOP there disgraced themselves with their cynicism and lust for power above all else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 14, 2020, 03:24:27 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/ny-times-editor-says-biden-sexual-assault-article-was-edited-after-his-campaign-complained/amp/

LOL

"NY Times Editor Says Biden Sexual-Assault Article Was Edited after His Campaign Complained"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 03:29:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 14, 2020, 03:24:27 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/ny-times-editor-says-biden-sexual-assault-article-was-edited-after-his-campaign-complained/amp/

LOL

"NY Times Editor Says Biden Sexual-Assault Article Was Edited after His Campaign Complained"

And?

The NR piece is a hell of a lot less breathless than your triumphant posts on this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 14, 2020, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2020, 03:29:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 14, 2020, 03:24:27 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/ny-times-editor-says-biden-sexual-assault-article-was-edited-after-his-campaign-complained/amp/

LOL

"NY Times Editor Says Biden Sexual-Assault Article Was Edited after His Campaign Complained"

And?

The NR piece is a hell of a lot less breathless than your triumphant posts on this.

It proves that The NY Times is nothing less than the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party and is on a par with Fox News and OAN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 03:40:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 14, 2020, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2020, 03:29:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 14, 2020, 03:24:27 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/ny-times-editor-says-biden-sexual-assault-article-was-edited-after-his-campaign-complained/amp/

LOL

"NY Times Editor Says Biden Sexual-Assault Article Was Edited after His Campaign Complained"

And?

The NR piece is a hell of a lot less breathless than your triumphant posts on this.

It proves that The NY Times is nothing less than the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party and is on a par with Fox News and OAN

It doesn't prove anything like that, any more than the likes of the WSJ is the propaganda arm of the GOP and also on a par with Fox News and OAN, but go ahead and believe that if you must.

One of these days you're going to shock us all and actually argue for conservative policies and principles, rather than your repeated "the Dems are nasty and evil" and "the lamestream media is biased".

BTW, Fox News is the height of journalistic impartiality and integrity compared to OAN.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 14, 2020, 03:51:48 PM
I actually dislike both parties equally-they are both fvckin trash

All you hear in here is Democrat Good/Republican Bad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 14, 2020, 03:55:37 PM
Putting anyone on a par with this FFS

Quotehttps://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1240687017433825285 (https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1240687017433825285)

The OANN reporter Chanel Rion - who has access to the daily press briefings -  files an investigative report (i.e. a massive conspiracy theory) about the source of the corona virus.

She credits "Greg Rubini, a citizen investigator and monitored source amongst a certain set in the D.C. intelligence community" who thinks the virus was developed at University of North Carolina and exported to China and Italy to discredit Trump.

Rubini is a noted conspiracy theorist on Twitter.

During her interview they flash a picture of Rubini looking serious and studious and committed.

But it's actually a picture of the actor Kier Dullea taken from "2001 A Space Odyssey". That's the picture Rubini uses as his profile picture on his Twitter account.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 14, 2020, 03:51:48 PM
I actually dislike both parties equally-they are both fvckin trash

All you hear in here is Democrat Good/Republican Bad

No doubt, but that is in line with the fact that we are almost all Irish and grew up with a fairly centrist style of politics. Outside of the DUP being close to the religious right section of the American right, there is no tradition in Ireland which compares to American conservatism. A lot of their views and policies are, quite frankly, batshit crazy to most of us, particularly over the past ten years as the anti-intellectualism and conspiracy theorizing has entrenched itself in the GOP, most obviously under Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 04:13:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 14, 2020, 03:55:37 PM
Putting anyone on a par with this FFS

Quotehttps://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1240687017433825285 (https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1240687017433825285)

The OANN reporter Chanel Rion - who has access to the daily press briefings -  files an investigative report (i.e. a massive conspiracy theory) about the source of the corona virus.

She credits "Greg Rubini, a citizen investigator and monitored source amongst a certain set in the D.C. intelligence community" who thinks the virus was developed at University of North Carolina and exported to China and Italy to discredit Trump.

Rubini is a noted conspiracy theorist on Twitter.

During her interview they flash a picture of Rubini looking serious and studious and committed.

But it's actually a picture of the actor Kier Dullea taken from "2001 A Space Odyssey". That's the picture Rubini uses as his profile picture on his Twitter account.

Watch the John Oliver link I posted the other day on this thread.

It is f**king mind-boggling what OAN is putting out!

The fact that Trump is calling on their "reporter" in press conferences and giving them shout-outs on Twitter is a sad indictment of the state of the US presidency at the moment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on April 14, 2020, 09:25:11 PM
What's Donald going to do for an encore tonight, let's face it last night is a hard act to follow....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 09:34:25 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 14, 2020, 09:25:11 PM
What's Donald going to do for an encore tonight, let's face it last night is a hard act to follow....

Well he was raving on about governors mutineering this morning.

He seems to be somehow under the impression that he is their boss and that there is a chain of command (and no doubt, in his mind, owed loyalty and obedience).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 14, 2020, 09:43:28 PM
It's bonkers people who have really important jobs during a pandemic and they have to stand there wasting 2 hours of the day listening to that dumb f**k tell everyone that he knows more than them...

It's crazy surely his people need to bench him and have the experts lead a 45 min max press conference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on April 14, 2020, 09:53:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 14, 2020, 09:43:28 PM
It's bonkers people who have really important jobs during a pandemic and they have to stand there wasting 2 hours of the day listening to that dumb f**k tell everyone that he knows more than them...

It's crazy surely his people need to bench him and have the experts lead a 45 min max press conference.

It's all about his ratings.....

Good take on last night https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52276004
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 14, 2020, 10:12:54 PM
Ah sure the BBC are biased
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 14, 2020, 10:26:49 PM
Actually the 2 doctors are excellent and seem to be very much on top of things

I cannot even watch him at this stage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on April 14, 2020, 11:24:21 PM
Two minutes it took him to go off on one ..

I can watch no more!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 14, 2020, 11:57:44 PM
"The great Vince McMahon"

Jesus!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 12:06:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2020, 04:13:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 14, 2020, 03:55:37 PM
Putting anyone on a par with this FFS

Quotehttps://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1240687017433825285 (https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1240687017433825285)

The OANN reporter Chanel Rion - who has access to the daily press briefings -  files an investigative report (i.e. a massive conspiracy theory) about the source of the corona virus.

She credits "Greg Rubini, a citizen investigator and monitored source amongst a certain set in the D.C. intelligence community" who thinks the virus was developed at University of North Carolina and exported to China and Italy to discredit Trump.

Rubini is a noted conspiracy theorist on Twitter.

During her interview they flash a picture of Rubini looking serious and studious and committed.

But it's actually a picture of the actor Kier Dullea taken from "2001 A Space Odyssey". That's the picture Rubini uses as his profile picture on his Twitter account.

Watch the John Oliver link I posted the other day on this thread.

It is f**king mind-boggling what OAN is putting out!

The fact that Trump is calling on their "reporter" in press conferences and giving them shout-outs on Twitter is a sad indictment of the state of the US presidency at the moment.

Sad indictment of the millions of morons that put that president there more like. Can that country get any more stupid I wonder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on April 15, 2020, 12:13:47 AM
Holy Christ. More fireworks tonight :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 12:14:49 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 15, 2020, 12:13:47 AM
Holy Christ. More fireworks tonight :o

Very wound up tonight!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 12:22:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 14, 2020, 10:26:49 PM
Actually the 2 doctors are excellent and seem to be very much on top of things

I cannot even watch him at this stage

Agreed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 12:24:25 AM
Dr Birx has been there for 2.5 hours... why??

Surely there is much more important work she can be doing than listening to that clampit read out the names of 742 companies!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
is he signing everyone of them ? You ever hear of a printer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 15, 2020, 03:43:21 AM
In fairness, he must be pretty excited at the prospect of signing checks that don't bounce.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 06:23:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
is he signing everyone of them ? You ever hear of a printer.

Did he say he was signing them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 09:28:57 AM
It's a stunt it probably takes time to set his name up on the printer for thousands of cheques but sure won't it be a great vote winner for him in November when he says "remember the big fat cheque I gave you"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 15, 2020, 10:21:13 AM
Trump passing on blame

https://apple.news/AJoNwqieKSFS0UFZ4ZSWHWw

Deflect and deny.

Dominic Raab starting to question the NHS usage of PPE. This is going to tune into a blame game against everyone else apart from the 2 most incompetent governments in the world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 15, 2020, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on April 15, 2020, 10:21:13 AM
Trump passing on blame

https://apple.news/AJoNwqieKSFS0UFZ4ZSWHWw

Deflect and deny.

Dominic Raab starting to question the NHS usage of PPE. This is going to tune into a blame game against everyone else apart from the 2 most incompetent governments in the world.

::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:56:04 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on April 15, 2020, 10:21:13 AM
Trump passing on blame

https://apple.news/AJoNwqieKSFS0UFZ4ZSWHWw

Deflect and deny.

Dominic Raab starting to question the NHS usage of PPE. This is going to tune into a blame game against everyone else apart from the 2 most incompetent governments in the world.

Dunno. I'm no fan of DT but the WHO have been swimming with their pants down and now the tide has gone out. Anyone would ask what we are funding them for if this is how they act when they're needed.
Trump has got a lot wrong, but this time I think he's right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on April 15, 2020, 11:06:14 AM
When the dust settles there'll be plenty of blame to go around I'd say and who knows maybe Trump is right and a lot of it lies at the WHOs door but now is hardly the right time to be debating it? We're in this mire now and how we escape from it is way more important in the short term than who's fault it is? Destabilizing an important organisation like the WHO is hardly the way to go

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 11:23:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
is he signing everyone of them ? You ever hear of a printer.

Who said he is signing them?

His name has no business being on them. It's not coming out of his personal accounts - it's public money. The stimulus was negotiated with Congress. No president has ever done this before.

Like I said... megalomaniac... personality cult.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:28:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 14, 2020, 11:57:44 PM
"The great Vince McMahon"

Jesus!!

Vincent Kennedy McMahon to you boyo

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/233/218/c02.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:29:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
is he signing everyone of them ? You ever hear of a printer.

Emphasis by me.  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 11:23:39 AMNo president has ever done this before.

No president has ever presented a campaign video as part of a White House press conference in the middle of a national emergency before either.

A lot of firsts for this presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 12:56:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 11:23:39 AMNo president has ever done this before.

No president has ever presented a campaign video as part of a White House press conference in the middle of a national emergency before either.

A lot of firsts for this presidency.

For all our sakes, hopefully lasts too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2020, 02:15:32 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 15, 2020, 11:06:14 AM
When the dust settles there'll be plenty of blame to go around I'd say and who knows maybe Trump is right and a lot of it lies at the WHOs door but now is hardly the right time to be debating it? We're in this mire now and how we escape from it is way more important in the short term than who's fault it is? Destabilizing an important organisation like the WHO is hardly the way to go

Yes like when some teenager guns down a load of students in a classroom it's not the time to discuss gun control? May I suggest thoughts and prayers?
Now is absolutely the time. These charlatans have been caught out. Why trust them on anything they say? We need to ask these tough questions. It's literally life or death.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 15, 2020, 02:39:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 12:06:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2020, 04:13:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 14, 2020, 03:55:37 PM
Putting anyone on a par with this FFS

Quotehttps://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1240687017433825285 (https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1240687017433825285)

The OANN reporter Chanel Rion - who has access to the daily press briefings -  files an investigative report (i.e. a massive conspiracy theory) about the source of the corona virus.

She credits "Greg Rubini, a citizen investigator and monitored source amongst a certain set in the D.C. intelligence community" who thinks the virus was developed at University of North Carolina and exported to China and Italy to discredit Trump.

Rubini is a noted conspiracy theorist on Twitter.

During her interview they flash a picture of Rubini looking serious and studious and committed.

But it's actually a picture of the actor Kier Dullea taken from "2001 A Space Odyssey". That's the picture Rubini uses as his profile picture on his Twitter account.

Watch the John Oliver link I posted the other day on this thread.

It is f**king mind-boggling what OAN is putting out!

The fact that Trump is calling on their "reporter" in press conferences and giving them shout-outs on Twitter is a sad indictment of the state of the US presidency at the moment.

Sad indictment of the millions of morons that put that president there more like. Can that country get any more stupid I wonder.

(https://i.ibb.co/g3NgPV4/Screenshot-20200415-143739-2.png) (https://ibb.co/Czg0M2P)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Kellyanne Conway "This is COVID 19 people not COVID 1"

It's getting beyond parody at this stage!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 02:58:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Kellyanne Conway "This is COVID 19 people not COVID 1"

It's getting beyond parody at this stage!!

Yeah, unfortunately the f**kwits that vote for them will probably think "yeah, she's right"...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 03:48:23 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Kellyanne Conway "This is COVID 19 people not COVID 1"

It's getting beyond parody at this stage!!

What does that even mean??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 04:02:41 PM
I think she thinks it's the 19th version of the virus?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 15, 2020, 04:04:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 04:02:41 PM
I think she thinks

No she doesn't
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:29:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
is he signing everyone of them ? You ever hear of a printer.

Emphasis by me.  ;)
story is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 04:34:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 04:02:41 PM
I think she thinks it's the 19th version of the virus?

Ah.

That's embarrassing, if true.

More likely she's spinning bullshit for the elderly Fox News audience though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:29:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
is he signing everyone of them ? You ever hear of a printer.

Emphasis by me.  ;)
story is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.

Not much point sticking to any field if you can't read a post.

[and its far from my field of expertise]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 04:38:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:29:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
is he signing everyone of them ? You ever hear of a printer.

Emphasis by me.  ;)
story is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.

Are you not in the slightest way embarrassed by the neediness, narcissism and cynicism of the leader of your movement and party?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PMstory is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.

Hmmmmm

QuoteApril 14, 2020 at 5:46 p.m. PDT
The Treasury Department has ordered President Trump's name printed on stimulus checks the Internal Revenue Service is rushing to send to tens of millions of Americans, a process that could slow their delivery by a few days, senior IRS officials said.

The unprecedented decision, finalized late Monday, means that when recipients open the $1,200 paper checks the IRS is scheduled to begin sending to 70 million Americans in coming days, "President Donald J. Trump" will appear on the left side of the payment.

It will be the first time a president's name appears on an IRS disbursement, whether a routine refund or one of the handful of checks the government has issued to taxpayers in recent decades either to stimulate a down economy or share the dividends of a strong one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:03:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 04:38:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:29:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
is he signing everyone of them ? You ever hear of a printer.

Emphasis by me.  ;)
story is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.

Are you not in the slightest way embarrassed by the neediness, narcissism and cynicism of the leader of your movement and party?
not my movement or party , unfortunately the alternative in my opinion is equally bad or worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PMstory is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.

Hmmmmm

QuoteApril 14, 2020 at 5:46 p.m. PDT
The Treasury Department has ordered President Trump's name printed on stimulus checks the Internal Revenue Service is rushing to send to tens of millions of Americans, a process that could slow their delivery by a few days, senior IRS officials said.

The unprecedented decision, finalized late Monday, means that when recipients open the $1,200 paper checks the IRS is scheduled to begin sending to 70 million Americans in coming days, "President Donald J. Trump" will appear on the left side of the payment.

It will be the first time a president's name appears on an IRS disbursement, whether a routine refund or one of the handful of checks the government has issued to taxpayers in recent decades either to stimulate a down economy or share the dividends of a strong one.
people who get a check aren't even looking at a signature it's being deposited ASAP , I'm sure if you found a trump supporter who was an irs official he would say the signature will not cause any delays , outrage at everything loses steam after a while .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PMstory is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.

Hmmmmm

QuoteApril 14, 2020 at 5:46 p.m. PDT
The Treasury Department has ordered President Trump's name printed on stimulus checks the Internal Revenue Service is rushing to send to tens of millions of Americans, a process that could slow their delivery by a few days, senior IRS officials said.

The unprecedented decision, finalized late Monday, means that when recipients open the $1,200 paper checks the IRS is scheduled to begin sending to 70 million Americans in coming days, "President Donald J. Trump" will appear on the left side of the payment.

It will be the first time a president's name appears on an IRS disbursement, whether a routine refund or one of the handful of checks the government has issued to taxpayers in recent decades either to stimulate a down economy or share the dividends of a strong one.
people who get a check aren't even looking at a signature it's being deposited ASAP , I'm sure if you found a trump supporter who was an irs official he would say the signature will not cause any delays , outrage at everything loses steam after a while .

Its not outrage.

Its people pointing and laughing at what a pathetic, fragile, insecure ego would even countenance such a move.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 05:17:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:03:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 04:38:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:29:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 02:10:25 AM
News tonight that they're delaying the stimulus cheques because the Treasury has been ordered to print Trump's name on them.

The man is a f**king megalomaniac.

And his administration and the GOP are a personality cult.
is he signing everyone of them ? You ever hear of a printer.

Emphasis by me.  ;)
story is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.

Are you not in the slightest way embarrassed by the neediness, narcissism and cynicism of the leader of your movement and party?
not my movement or party , unfortunately the alternative in my opinion is equally bad or worse.

You do a pretty good impression of a GOP Trump supporter around here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PMstory is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.

Hmmmmm

QuoteApril 14, 2020 at 5:46 p.m. PDT
The Treasury Department has ordered President Trump's name printed on stimulus checks the Internal Revenue Service is rushing to send to tens of millions of Americans, a process that could slow their delivery by a few days, senior IRS officials said.

The unprecedented decision, finalized late Monday, means that when recipients open the $1,200 paper checks the IRS is scheduled to begin sending to 70 million Americans in coming days, "President Donald J. Trump" will appear on the left side of the payment.

It will be the first time a president's name appears on an IRS disbursement, whether a routine refund or one of the handful of checks the government has issued to taxpayers in recent decades either to stimulate a down economy or share the dividends of a strong one.
people who get a check aren't even looking at a signature it's being deposited ASAP , I'm sure if you found a trump supporter who was an irs official he would say the signature will not cause any delays , outrage at everything loses steam after a while .

Its not outrage.

Its people pointing and laughing at what a pathetic, fragile, insecure ego would even countenance such a move.
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 05:51:30 PM
MUST.DEFEND.DONALD
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 15, 2020, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:23:40 PMstory is 2 weeks old most people are getting their stimulus check via direct deposit, stick to the virus that's your field of expertise.

Hmmmmm

QuoteApril 14, 2020 at 5:46 p.m. PDT
The Treasury Department has ordered President Trump's name printed on stimulus checks the Internal Revenue Service is rushing to send to tens of millions of Americans, a process that could slow their delivery by a few days, senior IRS officials said.

The unprecedented decision, finalized late Monday, means that when recipients open the $1,200 paper checks the IRS is scheduled to begin sending to 70 million Americans in coming days, "President Donald J. Trump" will appear on the left side of the payment.

It will be the first time a president's name appears on an IRS disbursement, whether a routine refund or one of the handful of checks the government has issued to taxpayers in recent decades either to stimulate a down economy or share the dividends of a strong one.
people who get a check aren't even looking at a signature it's being deposited ASAP , I'm sure if you found a trump supporter who was an irs official he would say the signature will not cause any delays , outrage at everything loses steam after a while .

Its not outrage.

Its people pointing and laughing at what a pathetic, fragile, insecure ego would even countenance such a move.
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

Trump was on camera for weeks saying it was a Democratic hoax, that the 15 confirmed cases would quickly dwindle to zero, that he didn't want that cruise ship to dock in CA as it would inflate the numbers, and so on and on. Recent reports suggest that he was being told three months ago there was a coming pandemic in the US. He is the one at the head of the federal government, with access to all of that expertise (at least that which he has not got rid of, defunded or which hasn't left the government in disgust). He has plenty of blame to accept, even though he is furiously and ludicrously trying to rewrite history. Fortunately for him, he still has time to do a good job, or alternatively, make a complete balls of it, both on the reopening and on the coming demand for testing. If he leaves it to a free-for-all between the states like he did with the ventilators and PPE, he deserves every bit of criticism coming to him. And don't forget, he went from accepting no responsibility a couple of weeks back to insisting that he has "total authority" on Monday, which he seems to have to (presumably very reluctantly) accept is not the case.

DeBlasio is hammered by the press all the time and, honestly, is looked on broadly and dismissively as fairly inept.

Cuomo has done and is doing a great job, even if he will have questions to answer in retrospect about how fast he called for the shutdown (even as the right wing talking heads are now starting to tell us that a shutdown was probably NEVER necessary, because, you know, Sweden!).

None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?

Not obsession. Concern. I live in the US. My kids are growing up here. He is changing this country for the worse and embodies and contributes to the ugliest aspects of American life. Everyone should be concerned.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
no they don't ,shelter in place orders hardly need such expertise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
no they don't ,shelter in place orders hardly need such expertise.

OK, so each city, town, county & state require expert input from the CDC in order to reach an informed decision about what to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
no they don't ,shelter in place orders hardly need such expertise.

OK, so each city, town, county & state require expert input from the CDC in order to reach an informed decision about what to do.
im sure like you and me they have access to the cdc website.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
no they don't ,shelter in place orders hardly need such expertise.

OK, so each city, town, county & state require expert input from the CDC in order to reach an informed decision about what to do.
im sure like you and me they have access to the cdc website.

Is that the extent of what they'd receive?

I don't see anything at first glance on the CDC website that would be construed as guidance for a municipal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
no they don't ,shelter in place orders hardly need such expertise.

OK, so each city, town, county & state require expert input from the CDC in order to reach an informed decision about what to do.
im sure like you and me they have access to the cdc website.

Is that the extent of what they'd receive?

I don't see anything at first glance on the CDC website that would be construed as guidance for a municipal.
states have their own health directors I'm sure it filters down fro there .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:19:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
no they don't ,shelter in place orders hardly need such expertise.

OK, so each city, town, county & state require expert input from the CDC in order to reach an informed decision about what to do.
im sure like you and me they have access to the cdc website.

Is that the extent of what they'd receive?

I don't see anything at first glance on the CDC website that would be construed as guidance for a municipal.
states have their own health directors I'm sure it filters down fro there .

So the state's heath directors sit on the CDC website and get their information from there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 08:23:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:19:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
no they don't ,shelter in place orders hardly need such expertise.

OK, so each city, town, county & state require expert input from the CDC in order to reach an informed decision about what to do.
im sure like you and me they have access to the cdc website.

Is that the extent of what they'd receive?

I don't see anything at first glance on the CDC website that would be construed as guidance for a municipal.
states have their own health directors I'm sure it filters down fro there .

So the state's heath directors sit on the CDC website and get their information from there?
do they oh ok
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 08:23:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:19:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
no they don't ,shelter in place orders hardly need such expertise.

OK, so each city, town, county & state require expert input from the CDC in order to reach an informed decision about what to do.
im sure like you and me they have access to the cdc website.

Is that the extent of what they'd receive?

I don't see anything at first glance on the CDC website that would be construed as guidance for a municipal.
states have their own health directors I'm sure it filters down fro there .

So the state's heath directors sit on the CDC website and get their information from there?
do they oh ok

Well your the one saying that its all on the state governors.

So I'm trying to establish how they get their information. Do all 50 states have duplicate infectious diseases departments or is that something they entrust to the federal government?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 08:53:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 08:23:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:19:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
nearly half the deaths are in the state of New York does Cuomo or de blassio get any hard questions from  national media about their handling of the outbreak? The media are very quick to say trump does not have the power to reopen states economies but at the same time he is responsible for the actions or lack of actions by governors to keep their states safe .
In California Newsom seems to have done a good job that's kudos to him not to trump but any state it's bad that's trumps fault.

I wasn't aware that each state had a CDC or similar to appraise them of best policy for epidemics.

If that is indeed true, could you point me toward some examples please?
each city , town , county , state  create their own policy to handle their individual needs and appropriate behavior deemed necessary in an emergency. CDC suggest guidelines.

So where does each city, town, county & state get the expertise to create their own policy?

Do they all employ infectious disease experts for instances such as this?
no they don't ,shelter in place orders hardly need such expertise.

OK, so each city, town, county & state require expert input from the CDC in order to reach an informed decision about what to do.
im sure like you and me they have access to the cdc website.

Is that the extent of what they'd receive?

I don't see anything at first glance on the CDC website that would be construed as guidance for a municipal.
states have their own health directors I'm sure it filters down fro there .

So the state's heath directors sit on the CDC website and get their information from there?
do they oh ok
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 15, 2020, 09:09:15 PM
It's almost like 50 different countries....it's hard to explain

Boston is 40 mins from Rhode Island yet their response has been completely different to here in Massachusetts

They had checkpoints in I95 stopping CT, NJ and NY cars and turning some of them back

They also went to the beach communities and issued some type of shelter in place order to anyone staying in a house with out of state plates in the driveway

Trump didn't handle this perfectly, but trying to put ALL the blame on him is complete BS......just look at NYC and the battle between the mayor and the governor


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 10:47:46 PM
Conservative backlash to restrictions underway with protests in Michigan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 10:49:39 PM
I don't think anyone is totally blaming Trump for this.

Cuomo made a lot of mistakes early on but has acknowledged this and performed admirably since.

DeBlasio likewise has gotten plenty of criticism Trump is giving himself a ten on how he has performed and deserves all the shit he is currently getting!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 15, 2020, 10:55:52 PM
Oh well you can't beat stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 15, 2020, 10:57:09 PM
Vince McMahon. Good call saying your running a pantomime lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 11:36:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 10:49:39 PM
I don't think anyone is totally blaming Trump for this.

Cuomo made a lot of mistakes early on but has acknowledged this and performed admirably since.

DeBlasio likewise has gotten plenty of criticism Trump is giving himself a ten on how he has performed and deserves all the shit he is currently getting!!
the media do not call out Cuomo or de blassio with any gusto though that's the difference.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 11:48:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 11:36:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 10:49:39 PM
I don't think anyone is totally blaming Trump for this.

Cuomo made a lot of mistakes early on but has acknowledged this and performed admirably since.

DeBlasio likewise has gotten plenty of criticism Trump is giving himself a ten on how he has performed and deserves all the shit he is currently getting!!
the media do not call out Cuomo or de blassio with any gusto though that's the difference.

It's amazing that you get called out for blatant, bald-faced lying as opposed to making a difficult call in uncertain times. The type of calls that are now being systematically protested by Trump supporters in Michigan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on April 15, 2020, 11:51:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?

Not obsession. Concern. I live in the US. My kids are growing up here. He is changing this country for the worse and embodies and contributes to the ugliest aspects of American life. Everyone should be concerned.

I live here also, My kids are growing up here also, I don't agree with you, hope that is ok.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on April 15, 2020, 11:54:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 11:36:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 10:49:39 PM
I don't think anyone is totally blaming Trump for this.

Cuomo made a lot of mistakes early on but has acknowledged this and performed admirably since.

DeBlasio likewise has gotten plenty of criticism Trump is giving himself a ten on how he has performed and deserves all the shit he is currently getting!!
the media do not call out Cuomo or de blassio with any gusto though that's the difference.

I would be very anti-Trump, but living and working in NY I am surprised the easy ride Cuomo and DeBlasio are getting, some even eager for Cuomo to replace Biden. These guys were so slow to shut down and I had taken my children out of school long before these two clowns woke up. Big ego guys like Trump and highly responsible for the situation we are in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 11:57:38 PM
Quote from: joemamas on April 15, 2020, 11:51:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?

Not obsession. Concern. I live in the US. My kids are growing up here. He is changing this country for the worse and embodies and contributes to the ugliest aspects of American life. Everyone should be concerned.

I live here also, My kids are growing up here also, I don't agree with you, hope that is ok.

Argue for Trump and his vision of America if you want to. This thread is for such discussion. That aside, I don't know you and thus don't really give a bollocks what you think.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 16, 2020, 06:26:51 AM
I live here too and so do my grandchildren.  I disagree with you.. but you are a very civil "cratur" so you are entitled to your view.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 16, 2020, 06:33:44 AM
That was a response to JoeMamas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 16, 2020, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?

Not obsession. Concern. I live in the US. My kids are growing up here. He is changing this country for the worse and embodies and contributes to the ugliest aspects of American life. Everyone should be concerned.

Obsessive concern is still obsession. We all live under leaders whom we personally dislike. And there's no harm in registering concern about them. But the law of diminishing returns kicks in once we go on and on about everything, even trivialities.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 01:43:56 PM
Quote from: five points on April 16, 2020, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?

Not obsession. Concern. I live in the US. My kids are growing up here. He is changing this country for the worse and embodies and contributes to the ugliest aspects of American life. Everyone should be concerned.

Obsessive concern is still obsession. We all live under leaders whom we personally dislike. And there's no harm in registering concern about them. But the law of diminishing returns kicks in once we go on and on about everything, even trivialities.

I'll grant you that, 3+ years in and in the grand scheme, Trump sticking his name on IRS cheques for personal ego and campaigning reasons is relatively trivial and predictable and indicative of something that is already well established. This thread goes dormant for months at a time such is the now routineness of Trump's personal conduct. But, its up and running at the moment and this cheque thing is another illustration of the complete surrender of his administration and his party to his personal neediness and demands for personal loyalty, and thus worth mentioning, IMO. Its not like there is a lot of GAA or soccer to talk about at the moment, which would be my other main interests on this board outside of US politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 16, 2020, 01:47:46 PM
Quote from: five points on April 16, 2020, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?

Not obsession. Concern. I live in the US. My kids are growing up here. He is changing this country for the worse and embodies and contributes to the ugliest aspects of American life. Everyone should be concerned.

Obsessive concern is still obsession. We all live under leaders whom we personally dislike. And there's no harm in registering concern about them. But the law of diminishing returns kicks in once we go on and on about everything, even trivialities.

Would that include whining about what other posters are saying?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 16, 2020, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: dec on April 16, 2020, 01:47:46 PM
Quote from: five points on April 16, 2020, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?

Not obsession. Concern. I live in the US. My kids are growing up here. He is changing this country for the worse and embodies and contributes to the ugliest aspects of American life. Everyone should be concerned.

Obsessive concern is still obsession. We all live under leaders whom we personally dislike. And there's no harm in registering concern about them. But the law of diminishing returns kicks in once we go on and on about everything, even trivialities.

Would that include whining about what other posters are saying?

Yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 02:26:45 PM
Quote from: five points on April 16, 2020, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?

Not obsession. Concern. I live in the US. My kids are growing up here. He is changing this country for the worse and embodies and contributes to the ugliest aspects of American life. Everyone should be concerned.

Obsessive concern is still obsession. We all live under leaders whom we personally dislike. And there's no harm in registering concern about them. But the law of diminishing returns kicks in once we go on and on about everything, even trivialities.

It's what is referred to as "faux outrage"......outraged about everything all the time and slighted and offended by the most trivial things. After a while people just start tuning out.  If they stuck to the real issues there's plenty to hang him on, but I'm afraid they have no discipline

It's like after one of his SOTU addresses they had 5 responses attacking him from 5 different angles instead of just one knock out blow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 16, 2020, 03:00:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 02:26:45 PM

It's what is referred to as "faux outrage"......outraged about everything all the time and slighted and offended by the most trivial things.


A perfect description of Fox News and talk radio.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:12:03 PM
Quote from: dec on April 16, 2020, 03:00:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 02:26:45 PM

It's what is referred to as "faux outrage"......outraged about everything all the time and slighted and offended by the most trivial things.


A perfect description of Fox News and talk radio.

Absolutely....they perfected the art, and now CNN, MSNBC the WaPo and NY Times are right up there with them in terms of bias and partisanship
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 02:26:45 PM
Quote from: five points on April 16, 2020, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: five points on April 15, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
None of that changes that Trump is at the head of a personality cult.

That he may well be. But judging from the volume and tone of your posts here, you're obsessed with him. What does that make you?

Not obsession. Concern. I live in the US. My kids are growing up here. He is changing this country for the worse and embodies and contributes to the ugliest aspects of American life. Everyone should be concerned.

Obsessive concern is still obsession. We all live under leaders whom we personally dislike. And there's no harm in registering concern about them. But the law of diminishing returns kicks in once we go on and on about everything, even trivialities.

It's what is referred to as "faux outrage"......outraged about everything all the time and slighted and offended by the most trivial things. After a while people just start tuning out.  If they stuck to the real issues there's plenty to hang him on, but I'm afraid they have no discipline

It's like after one of his SOTU addresses they had 5 responses attacking him from 5 different angles instead of just one knock out blow

About the most trivial thing we've seen here this week was your NY Times Biden sexual assault story "scandal".

And as I've already said, with the cheque issue, I wasn't expressing outrage; I was pointing and mocking. I'll save the outrage for stuff like the immigrant mothers and babies or his assault on the environment and the poor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:21:19 PM
No the shocking thing is that within minutes of an article going up a Democratic campaign can call The NY Times and pressure them into deleting a less than favorable paragraphs that was written about their candidate-The NY Times did their bidding, then failed to add an editors note (which is normal procedure) explaining the edit

In 2016 Hillary's campaign actually got them to turn an Pro Bernie article into an anti Bernie article

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:28:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:21:19 PM
No the shocking thing is that within minutes of an article going up a Democratic campaign can call The NY Times and pressure them into deleting a less than favorable paragraphs that was written about their candidate-The NY Times did their bidding, then failed to add an editors note (which is normal procedure) explaining the edit

In 2016 Hillary's campaign actually got them to turn an Pro Bernie article into an anti Bernie article

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/new-york-times-bernie-sanders-coverage-public-editor/

So we've gone from half a sentence, which did absolutely nothing to change the story, to a paragraph now?

And yeah, you've wheeled out that Bernie one, what, 50 times on this thread at this point?

Surely such a corrupt and biased organization has a wealth of such skullduggery for you to draw upon. Might be time to update your bookmarked stories.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 16, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Small business loan program is out of money . . .

I think the Dems have fucked this one up. You can't be holding shit up when people are going broke yes the things they are asking for are probably needed but this wasn't the hill to die on!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
You are in deep denial. NY Times is no better than Fox News.

They haven't a shred of credibility

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
You are in deep denial. NY Times is no better than Fox News.

They haven't a shred of credibility

More whitey false equivalency.

"Believe what you want".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 16, 2020, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 16, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Small business loan program is out of money . . .

I think the Dems have fucked this one up. You can't be holding shit up when people are going broke yes the things they are asking for are probably needed but this wasn't the hill to die on!!
newsom in California is putting 175m up to give out to undocumented workers , forget about the politics for a minute here is that legal to give taxpayers money out to people who broke the law to enter the  country ? California is a one state party so is newsom not acting like a dictator here  ? Will any news media call this out . 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
You are in deep denial. NY Times is no better than Fox News.

They haven't a shred of credibility

More whitey false equivalency.

"Believe what you want".

Believe what you want indeed

That hit job they attempted on Brett Kavanaugh in the fall shows just how contemptuous they are

They are flat out liars and (IMHO) are as bad if not worse than Fox and OAN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 16, 2020, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2020, 03:59:49 PMnewsom in California is putting 175m up to give out to undocumented workers , forget about the politics for a minute here is that legal to give taxpayers money out to people who broke the law to enter the  country ? California is a one state party so is newsom not acting like a dictator here  ? Will any news media call this out .

Is it illegal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
You are in deep denial. NY Times is no better than Fox News.

They haven't a shred of credibility

More whitey false equivalency.

"Believe what you want".

Believe what you want indeed

That hit job they attempted on Brett Kavanaugh in the fall shows just how contemptuous they are

They are flat out liars and (IMHO) are as bad if not worse than Fox and OAN

Based on comments like that, I seriously doubt if you ever read the Times beyond whatever "Times is horribly biased outrage of the month" that is circulating in conservative circles.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 05:17:23 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 16, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Small business loan program is out of money . . .

I think the Dems have fucked this one up. You can't be holding shit up when people are going broke yes the things they are asking for are probably needed but this wasn't the hill to die on!!

We'll see.

At least they're all talking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 16, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
You are in deep denial. NY Times is no better than Fox News.

They haven't a shred of credibility

More whitey false equivalency.

"Believe what you want".

Believe what you want indeed

That hit job they attempted on Brett Kavanaugh in the fall shows just how contemptuous they are

They are flat out liars and (IMHO) are as bad if not worse than Fox and OAN


This is the big lie, beloved of yourself and the gang of right-wing nutjobs that you, of course, don't support, you being a liberal and all.

Your Dad's doing jail time for murder and rape.
- Your Dad got a fine for a broken tail light. He's a criminal too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 05:23:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2020, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 16, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Small business loan program is out of money . . .

I think the Dems have fucked this one up. You can't be holding shit up when people are going broke yes the things they are asking for are probably needed but this wasn't the hill to die on!!
newsom in California is putting 175m up to give out to undocumented workers , forget about the politics for a minute here is that legal to give taxpayers money out to people who broke the law to enter the  country ? California is a one state party so is newsom not acting like a dictator here  ? Will any news media call this out .

From what I saw in the LA Times, its 125 million, partly funded by non-profits, with 500 for individuals or 1000/family for those who are illegal and can't get help elsewhere.

I'm not seeing the problem. They have to pay rent and buy food for their kids too. You can't just wish them away. Its the humane thing to do. Chances are some of them are delivering your chinese or pizza takeout while you shelter at home.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
You are in deep denial. NY Times is no better than Fox News.

They haven't a shred of credibility

More whitey false equivalency.

"Believe what you want".

Believe what you want indeed

That hit job they attempted on Brett Kavanaugh in the fall shows just how contemptuous they are

They are flat out liars and (IMHO) are as bad if not worse than Fox and OAN

Based on comments like that, I seriously doubt if you ever read the Times beyond whatever "Times is horribly biased outrage of the month" that is circulating in conservative circles.

They're clowns of the highest order. They are so incredibly biased and partisan against ANY republican they should be embarrassed

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-paul-krugman-made-donald-trump-possible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 16, 2020, 05:30:47 PM
If the NYT made a slight error  in reporting the color of Trump's tie and later corrected and apologized for it, people like Whitey would seize upon it as proof irrefutable that the NYT is no different from Fox "200 lies per hour" News.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 05:37:32 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 16, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
You are in deep denial. NY Times is no better than Fox News.

They haven't a shred of credibility

More whitey false equivalency.

"Believe what you want".

Believe what you want indeed

That hit job they attempted on Brett Kavanaugh in the fall shows just how contemptuous they are

They are flat out liars and (IMHO) are as bad if not worse than Fox and OAN


This is the big lie, beloved of yourself and the gang of right-wing nutjobs that you, of course, don't support, you being a liberal and all.

Your Dad's doing jail time for murder and rape.
- Your Dad got a fine for a broken tail light. He's a criminal too.

Believe whatever you want

Just look at how they treated Brett Kavanaugh last fall. Those 2 ladies were fvckin pure born liars-leaving in stuff that was false and taking out stuff that was true in an effort to further smear Kavanaugh. Based in that "editorial" several Democratic candidates actually said they would move to impeach Justice Kavanaugh should they get the nomination.

So here they are actively, intentionally and dishonestly undermining an institution that is critical to our entire Democracy, but that's fine in your and J70s book

NY Times has as much journalistic credibility as OAN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 16, 2020, 05:40:48 PM
Poor multi-millionaire Brett Kavanaugh  ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 06:04:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
You are in deep denial. NY Times is no better than Fox News.

They haven't a shred of credibility

More whitey false equivalency.

"Believe what you want".

Believe what you want indeed

That hit job they attempted on Brett Kavanaugh in the fall shows just how contemptuous they are

They are flat out liars and (IMHO) are as bad if not worse than Fox and OAN

Based on comments like that, I seriously doubt if you ever read the Times beyond whatever "Times is horribly biased outrage of the month" that is circulating in conservative circles.

They're clowns of the highest order. They are so incredibly biased and partisan against ANY republican they should be embarrassed

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-paul-krugman-made-donald-trump-possible

Oh no, Karol Markowicz, now a writer for the NY Post opinion page, says that if only those horrible libtards like Krugman had been nicer to the likes of Romney and McCain, Trump would never have happened.

Well yeah, that's about standard for the level of logic she regularly brings to her pieces.

Give me a fuckin break. Right wing media has been spewing lies and distortion about (I was going to say liberals, but no) just about everything for nearly 30 years, telling their listeners that all that's shit in their lives was the fault of big government, immigrants, muslims, gays, atheists, environmentalists, feminazis, the Clintons, Al Gore, Obama and so on and on and on. But Trump is NOT the logical endpoint of all of that cultivation of a bullshit persecution complex and white grievance. Its all Paul Krugman being mean to Mitt Romney. Ellen DeGeneres, its her fault Trump was elected. The GOP are not responsible for Trump and his odious views and conduct. No siree!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hardy on April 16, 2020, 06:25:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 05:37:32 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 16, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
You are in deep denial. NY Times is no better than Fox News.

They haven't a shred of credibility

More whitey false equivalency.

"Believe what you want".

Believe what you want indeed

That hit job they attempted on Brett Kavanaugh in the fall shows just how contemptuous they are

They are flat out liars and (IMHO) are as bad if not worse than Fox and OAN


This is the big lie, beloved of yourself and the gang of right-wing nutjobs that you, of course, don't support, you being a liberal and all.

Your Dad's doing jail time for murder and rape.
- Your Dad got a fine for a broken tail light. He's a criminal too.

Believe whatever you want

Just look at how they treated Brett Kavanaugh last fall. Those 2 ladies were fvckin pure born liars-leaving in stuff that was false and taking out stuff that was true in an effort to further smear Kavanaugh. Based in that "editorial" several Democratic candidates actually said they would move to impeach Justice Kavanaugh should they get the nomination.

So here they are actively, intentionally and dishonestly undermining an institution that is critical to our entire Democracy, but that's fine in your and J70s book

NY Times has as much journalistic credibility as OAN

Do you have any embarrassment threshold?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 06:30:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

I'm not defending their f**k-up on that story or claiming that they never make mistakes. Every news organization that has ever existed has screwed up.

I'm disagreeing with your lazy allegation that this somehow makes them the equivalent of Fox News or, even more ludicrously, OAN.

Like I said, I seriously doubt how much you actually read the Times.

As for the Supreme Court's, its legitimacy went down the toilet with Merritt Garland. Now its just a rubber stamp for the Federalist Society "vision" of America and will be for a generation.

Someday you'll explain to us why you think that is a good thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 06:30:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

I'm not defending their f**k-up on that story or claiming that they never make mistakes. Every news organization that has ever existed has screwed up.

I'm disagreeing with your lazy allegation that this somehow makes them the equivalent of Fox News or, even more ludicrously, OAN.

Like I said, I seriously doubt how much you actually read the Times.

As for the Supreme Court's, its legitimacy went down the toilet with Merritt Garland. Now its just a rubber stamp for the Federalist Society "vision" of America and will be for a generation.

Someday you'll explain to us why you think that is a good thing.

I am on the record as saying that the Garland decision was an absolute disgrace, but the Democrats only have themselves to blame for that by advocating doing essentially the same during several prior election cycles

Conveniently the "fvck ups" and "mistakes" The NY Times make almost always seem to benefit Democrats

If they want to  engage in repeated character assassination of decent people for political ends, well shame on them but that's the type of behavior I expect from Fox or OAN

You trying to brush their bias under the carpet is very sad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 16, 2020, 07:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

(https://cdn.hillreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Screen-Shot-2019-04-29-at-3.45.04-PM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 07:19:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 16, 2020, 07:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

(https://cdn.hillreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Screen-Shot-2019-04-29-at-3.45.04-PM.png)

Correct and I've said 1000 times on here that it was disgrace

But I expect no more from rabid partisans-and that's what The NY Times are

Just as bad as McConnell and OAN and Fox News
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 07:40:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 06:30:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

I'm not defending their f**k-up on that story or claiming that they never make mistakes. Every news organization that has ever existed has screwed up.

I'm disagreeing with your lazy allegation that this somehow makes them the equivalent of Fox News or, even more ludicrously, OAN.

Like I said, I seriously doubt how much you actually read the Times.

As for the Supreme Court's, its legitimacy went down the toilet with Merritt Garland. Now its just a rubber stamp for the Federalist Society "vision" of America and will be for a generation.

Someday you'll explain to us why you think that is a good thing.

I am on the record as saying that the Garland decision was an absolute disgrace, but the Democrats only have themselves to blame for that by advocating doing essentially the same during several prior election cycles

Conveniently the "fvck ups" and "mistakes" The NY Times make almost always seem to benefit Democrats

If they want to  engage in repeated character assassination of decent people for political ends, well shame on them but that's the type of behavior I expect from Fox or OAN

You trying to brush their bias under the carpet is very sad

I'm not.

I disagreeing with your assertion that they're no better than Fox News (I'm going to leave OAN out of this, as they're on a plane of their own).

Fox News is GOP propaganda for most of their line-up, with the exception of a couple of hours of hard news (and even then, Shep Smith quit). There is a whole host of GOP players who cycle between Congress and Fox News and Republican administrations. Trump personally calls into many of the Fox News shows himself. So do loads of other GOP politicians. They feed off each other.

There is nothing like that going on at the Times, even if their opinion and editorial pages have, like most papers, a political bias. Most of their content is either hard news, local or non-political anyway. To suggest that they're the equivalent of Fox News is not supported by any evidence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 16, 2020, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 06:30:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

I'm not defending their f**k-up on that story or claiming that they never make mistakes. Every news organization that has ever existed has screwed up.

I'm disagreeing with your lazy allegation that this somehow makes them the equivalent of Fox News or, even more ludicrously, OAN.

Like I said, I seriously doubt how much you actually read the Times.

As for the Supreme Court's, its legitimacy went down the toilet with Merritt Garland. Now its just a rubber stamp for the Federalist Society "vision" of America and will be for a generation.

Someday you'll explain to us why you think that is a good thing.
the tactics were a little different wouldn't you say , McConnell just blocked it the dems called old Brett a rapist , gang rapist , piss head with no basis for it and never apologized to him or his family big difference
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 07:49:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2020, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 06:30:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

I'm not defending their f**k-up on that story or claiming that they never make mistakes. Every news organization that has ever existed has screwed up.

I'm disagreeing with your lazy allegation that this somehow makes them the equivalent of Fox News or, even more ludicrously, OAN.

Like I said, I seriously doubt how much you actually read the Times.

As for the Supreme Court's, its legitimacy went down the toilet with Merritt Garland. Now its just a rubber stamp for the Federalist Society "vision" of America and will be for a generation.

Someday you'll explain to us why you think that is a good thing.
the tactics were a little different wouldn't you say , McConnell just blocked it the dems called old Brett a rapist , gang rapist , piss head with no basis for it and never apologized to him or his family big difference

No basis apart from a woman staking her life and career and reputation on making the allegation in full view of the public in front of Congress.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 16, 2020, 09:26:48 PM
So now the story is that The_Donald wants to force an adjournment of both houses so he can appoint whomever he wants to whatever role he desires without any oversight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 09:42:49 PM
So The NY Times ran a piece that was so inflammatory that several Democratic presidential candidates came out that very day and called for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Court Justice.

A prominent Democratic Congresswoman announced the same day that she would be introducing a resolution to begin an impeachment inquiry of Kavanaugh.

And it was all based on a bunch of BS fed to them by a former Clinton attorney, a fact they also conveniently omitted

And no one lost their jobs

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 16, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

Kavanaugh is illegitimate. He's squatting on a seat that should have been filled by Obama. I hope that if the Dems take back the White House and senate, they expand the supreme court to make up for the illegitimate justices put there by two illegitimate presidents, Bush and Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 16, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

Kavanaugh is illegitimate. He's squatting on a seat that should have been filled by Obama. I hope that if the Dems take back the White House and senate, they expand the supreme court to make up for the illegitimate justices put there by two illegitimate presidents, Bush and Trump.


Lol.....won't happen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 17, 2020, 08:05:22 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 16, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

Kavanaugh is illegitimate. He's squatting on a seat that should have been filled by Obama. I hope that if the Dems take back the White House and senate, they expand the supreme court to make up for the illegitimate justices put there by two illegitimate presidents, Bush and Trump.

Hold on, why are those two presidents illegitimate? Don't tell me the Democrats are still pushing that popular vote argument. Can't complain about the rules after you've lost.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 17, 2020, 01:26:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 09:42:49 PM
So The NY Times ran a piece that was so inflammatory that several Democratic presidential candidates came out that very day and called for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Court Justice.

A prominent Democratic Congresswoman announced the same day that she would be introducing a resolution to begin an impeachment inquiry of Kavanaugh.

And it was all based on a bunch of BS fed to them by a former Clinton attorney, a fact they also conveniently omitted

And no one lost their jobs

1. The man you so sneeringly dismiss as a "Clinton lawyer", a reference replete with implications of dishonesty and dirt, feeding BS to the authors, was a member of Bill Clinton's impeachment defense team, back in the late 90s, when the firm he worked for was hired for the job. Trump's great public legal defender during the impeachment, Alan Dershowitz, was a member of OJ's defense team, back around the same tome. Is his entire, distinguished career and motivation defined by that particular job, in your eyes?
I would add that Stier has also worked for Republicans in the past and has in recent years professionally advised transition teams of both parties during presidential elections. So much so that he features prominently on the topic in the Michael Lewis book that you yourself recommended here on this very thread.
Partisan hack he is not.

2. I agree that James Dao and the Times did not satisfactorily address why they left out the info that Harmon Joyce didn't remember what Stier alleged. The authors suggest that it was somehow deleted when they removed Harmon Joyce's name from the article. Maybe, but it sounds weak.

3. I also, however, do not see how this could be part of some odious conspiracy on the part of the Times as the book from which the article was drawn was coming out a couple of days later and DID have both Harmon Joyce's name and the fact that she didn't recall what Stier alleged. What would be the point?

4. Especially when the (long) article was buried in the Sunday supplement section in the first place and NOT, as you claim, an editorial piece. And more especially when everyone knows that every piece of any article with political implications is picked apart with a fine toothcomb for inconsistencies, weaknesses and lies. This is the Times, not Alex Jones or the Gateway Pundit or other such non-mainstream outlet where most people aren't going to hear or read about it. The only outcome is every going to be the story and the outlet losing credibility.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 17, 2020, 01:28:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 17, 2020, 08:05:22 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 16, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

Kavanaugh is illegitimate. He's squatting on a seat that should have been filled by Obama. I hope that if the Dems take back the White House and senate, they expand the supreme court to make up for the illegitimate justices put there by two illegitimate presidents, Bush and Trump.

Hold on, why are those two presidents illegitimate? Don't tell me the Democrats are still pushing that popular vote argument. Can't complain about the rules after you've lost.

Of course not.

You should tell that to those who claim Bernie was robbed in 2016 also.

The popular vote or electoral college reform does have merit though. Why should my NY vote carry less weight in both the Senate and Presidential elections than the votes of my in-laws out in a sparsely populated western state?

Shit will probably hit the fan again next year when the census comes out and the electoral votes are reallocated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 17, 2020, 01:33:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 16, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Intentionally seeking to undermine the legitimacy of the Supreme Court of the United States is exactly the same if not worse than Fox News seeking to delegitimize President Obama.

If you can't see that then you need to examine how partisan you have become

Kavanaugh is illegitimate. He's squatting on a seat that should have been filled by Obama. I hope that if the Dems take back the White House and senate, they expand the supreme court to make up for the illegitimate justices put there by two illegitimate presidents, Bush and Trump.

But then the GOP does the same when they're next in control.

Where does it end?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 17, 2020, 01:49:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 17, 2020, 01:26:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 09:42:49 PM
So The NY Times ran a piece that was so inflammatory that several Democratic presidential candidates came out that very day and called for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Court Justice.

A prominent Democratic Congresswoman announced the same day that she would be introducing a resolution to begin an impeachment inquiry of Kavanaugh.

And it was all based on a bunch of BS fed to them by a former Clinton attorney, a fact they also conveniently omitted

And no one lost their jobs

1. The man you so sneeringly dismiss as a "Clinton lawyer", a reference replete with implications of dishonesty and dirt, feeding BS to the authors, was a member of Bill Clinton's impeachment defense team, back in the late 90s, when the firm he worked for was hired for the job. Trump's great public legal defender during the impeachment, Alan Dershowitz, was a member of OJ's defense team, back around the same tome. Is his entire, distinguished career and motivation defined by that particular job, in your eyes?
I would add that Stier has also worked for Republicans in the past and has in recent years professionally advised transition teams of both parties during presidential elections. So much so that he features prominently on the topic in the Michael Lewis book that you yourself recommended here on this very thread.
Partisan hack he is not.

2. I agree that James Dao and the Times did not satisfactorily address why they left out the info that Harmon Joyce didn't remember what Stier alleged. The authors suggest that it was somehow deleted when they removed Harmon Joyce's name from the article. Maybe, but it sounds weak.

3. I also, however, do not see how this could be part of some odious conspiracy on the part of the Times as the book from which the article was drawn was coming out a couple of days later and DID have both Harmon Joyce's name and the fact that she didn't recall what Stier alleged. What would be the point?

4. Especially when the (long) article was buried in the Sunday supplement section in the first place and NOT, as you claim, an editorial piece. And more especially when everyone knows that every piece of any article with political implications is picked apart with a fine toothcomb for inconsistencies, weaknesses and lies. This is the Times, not Alex Jones or the Gateway Pundit or other such non-mainstream outlet where most people aren't going to hear or read about it. The only outcome is every going to be the story and the outlet losing credibility.

So you're okay with The NY Times intentionally trying to undermine the legitimacy of a sitting US Supreme Justice with lies, half truths, innuendo and omissions?  Fair enough
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 17, 2020, 01:58:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 17, 2020, 01:49:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 17, 2020, 01:26:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 16, 2020, 09:42:49 PM
So The NY Times ran a piece that was so inflammatory that several Democratic presidential candidates came out that very day and called for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Court Justice.

A prominent Democratic Congresswoman announced the same day that she would be introducing a resolution to begin an impeachment inquiry of Kavanaugh.

And it was all based on a bunch of BS fed to them by a former Clinton attorney, a fact they also conveniently omitted

And no one lost their jobs

1. The man you so sneeringly dismiss as a "Clinton lawyer", a reference replete with implications of dishonesty and dirt, feeding BS to the authors, was a member of Bill Clinton's impeachment defense team, back in the late 90s, when the firm he worked for was hired for the job. Trump's great public legal defender during the impeachment, Alan Dershowitz, was a member of OJ's defense team, back around the same tome. Is his entire, distinguished career and motivation defined by that particular job, in your eyes?
I would add that Stier has also worked for Republicans in the past and has in recent years professionally advised transition teams of both parties during presidential elections. So much so that he features prominently on the topic in the Michael Lewis book that you yourself recommended here on this very thread.
Partisan hack he is not.

2. I agree that James Dao and the Times did not satisfactorily address why they left out the info that Harmon Joyce didn't remember what Stier alleged. The authors suggest that it was somehow deleted when they removed Harmon Joyce's name from the article. Maybe, but it sounds weak.

3. I also, however, do not see how this could be part of some odious conspiracy on the part of the Times as the book from which the article was drawn was coming out a couple of days later and DID have both Harmon Joyce's name and the fact that she didn't recall what Stier alleged. What would be the point?

4. Especially when the (long) article was buried in the Sunday supplement section in the first place and NOT, as you claim, an editorial piece. And more especially when everyone knows that every piece of any article with political implications is picked apart with a fine toothcomb for inconsistencies, weaknesses and lies. This is the Times, not Alex Jones or the Gateway Pundit or other such non-mainstream outlet where most people aren't going to hear or read about it. The only outcome is every going to be the story and the outlet losing credibility.

So you're okay with The NY Times intentionally trying to undermine the legitimacy of a sitting US Supreme Justice with lies, half truths, innuendo and omissions?  Fair enough

Yes, that is clearly what I said. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 17, 2020, 02:10:22 PM
Well you sure ties yourself in knots trying to make up excuses for them

Should the people involved have been fired-yes or no?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 17, 2020, 02:30:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 17, 2020, 02:10:22 PM
Well you sure ties yourself in knots trying to make up excuses for them

Should the people involved have been fired-yes or no?

Where have I made excuses?

I said it doesn't make sense to me that in the circumstances in which this story came out that they would deliberately leave out that the woman didn't remember. I've explained why. If you have an issue with my logic, go ahead and address it.

As for firing the editor, I don't know. I'm not familiar with the workings of the industry or how easy/hard it is for ownership/management to sack someone for allowing an error like that, whether intentional or not, to go to publication.

I certainly don't see how the responsible editor, presumably Dao, could have expected much sympathy if he had been fired.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 17, 2020, 07:01:16 PM
So after a fairly level-headed and cautious speech last night, in which he called for a sensible three step opening up of states at the behest of their own governors (albeit with questions still over the necessary testing), Trump is now calling for the "liberation" of Michigan, Minnesota and Virginia (all with Democratic governors). Whatever "LIBERATE" means. And coincidentally or not, minutes after a feature on Fox News about the conservative protests.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 17, 2020, 07:01:16 PM
So after a fairly level-headed and cautious speech last night, in which he called for a sensible three step opening up of states at the behest of their own governors (albeit with questions still over the necessary testing), Trump is now calling for the "liberation" of Michigan, Minnesota and Virginia (all with Democratic governors). Whatever "LIBERATE" means. And coincidentally or not, minutes after a feature on Fox News about the conservative protests.

Cuomo's fairly got stuck into him today could be good craic tonight!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 17, 2020, 08:08:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 17, 2020, 07:01:16 PM
So after a fairly level-headed and cautious speech last night, in which he called for a sensible three step opening up of states at the behest of their own governors (albeit with questions still over the necessary testing), Trump is now calling for the "liberation" of Michigan, Minnesota and Virginia (all with Democratic governors). Whatever "LIBERATE" means. And coincidentally or not, minutes after a feature on Fox News about the conservative protests.

Cuomo's fairly got stuck into him today could be good craic tonight!!

Think Cuomo is getting ready to jump in to the Presidential race
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 17, 2020, 08:14:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 17, 2020, 08:08:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 17, 2020, 07:01:16 PM
So after a fairly level-headed and cautious speech last night, in which he called for a sensible three step opening up of states at the behest of their own governors (albeit with questions still over the necessary testing), Trump is now calling for the "liberation" of Michigan, Minnesota and Virginia (all with Democratic governors). Whatever "LIBERATE" means. And coincidentally or not, minutes after a feature on Fox News about the conservative protests.

Cuomo's fairly got stuck into him today could be good craic tonight!!

Think Cuomo is getting ready to jump in to the Presidential race

You think so?

Doubt it myself. He's got his hands full at the moment, and there might be accusations of him neglecting/abandoning his job at a time of dire need.

I would expect himself and Newsom to be too strong runners next time out, when its either Trump or an 82 year old Biden finishing up.

But, August and the convention is a while off. If things are under control and Biden is performing badly or these sexual assault allegations are a factor, you never know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Seems like Trump's lash-out-at-the-media-and-shoot-the-messenger strategy is paying off.

But if Biden does get in somehow, I could see him serving one term and then someone like Newsom having a go.

I wouldn't write Biden off yet. It's a long way to November and a lot of dead bodies are going to be piled up between now and then thanks to Donald. A lot will depend on how successful he is in shifting blame away from himself. He'll take credit for anything that goes right and deflect blame for anything that goes wrong, which will play well with the religious crowd who are used to doing that sort of thing with God. I don't know if it'll be enough with swing voters though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:06:25 AM
Well I think most reasonable people aren't blaming him for the Corona virus

Realistically, whoever else was in charge, there would probably have been a similar death count anyway

And NYC is (so far anyway) completely skewing our National number, and one can apportion as much blame to DeBlasio and Coumo for that as you can to Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 02:09:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:06:25 AM
Well I think most reasonable people aren't blaming him for the Corona virus

Realistically, whoever else was in charge, there would probably have been a similar death count anyway

And NYC is (so far anyway) completely skewing our National number, and one can apportion as much blame to DeBlasio and Coumo for that as you can to Trump

That's probably fair he hasn't handled it great but then very few have...

If there's a second wave of this thing that hits before November then I can't see any way he gets in.

Saw a clip of Laura Ingraham this evening how vile is she?? I'm surprised Fauci didn't lay into her comparing the Coronavirus to HIV Jesus Christ!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2020, 03:17:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:06:25 AM
Well I think most reasonable people aren't blaming him for the Corona virus

Realistically, whoever else was in charge, there would probably have been a similar death count anyway

And NYC is (so far anyway) completely skewing our National number, and one can apportion as much blame to DeBlasio and Coumo for that as you can to Trump

Well he can certainly f**k things up from here on in if today was any guide to how things will proceed.

Has he explained what "liberate" means yet?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2020, 05:44:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:06:25 AM
Well I think most reasonable people aren't blaming him for the Corona virus

Realistically, whoever else was in charge, there would probably have been a similar death count anyway

And NYC is (so far anyway) completely skewing our National number, and one can apportion as much blame to DeBlasio and Coumo for that as you can to Trump

Really? So if Obama were still in charge, do you think he would have been dismissing it as a hoax a few months into the crisis? Do you think Obama would have not bothered reading his intelligence briefings?

You people amaze me with your Houdini-like abilities to wriggle out of any responsibility for your Trump-supporting actions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 18, 2020, 07:13:06 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2020, 05:44:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:06:25 AM
Well I think most reasonable people aren't blaming him for the Corona virus

Realistically, whoever else was in charge, there would probably have been a similar death count anyway

And NYC is (so far anyway) completely skewing our National number, and one can apportion as much blame to DeBlasio and Coumo for that as you can to Trump

Really? So if Obama were still in charge, do you think he would have been dismissing it as a hoax a few months into the crisis? Do you think Obama would have not bothered reading his intelligence briefings?

You people amaze me with your Houdini-like abilities to wriggle out of any responsibility for your Trump-supporting actions.


Well Nancy Pelosi and DiBlasio sure weren't taking it too seriously either and how many died under Joes watch with H1N1?


https://youtu.be/UcvIQJ-QurQ

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/coronavirus-critic-joe-biden-will-need-to-explain-why-he-didnt-replenish-the-medical-supply-reserve-following-swine-flu-pandemic%3f_amp=true

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/25/after-last-pandemic-task-force-advised-obama-to-avert-shortage-of-masks/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2020, 12:18:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 07:13:06 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2020, 05:44:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:06:25 AM
Well I think most reasonable people aren't blaming him for the Corona virus

Realistically, whoever else was in charge, there would probably have been a similar death count anyway

And NYC is (so far anyway) completely skewing our National number, and one can apportion as much blame to DeBlasio and Coumo for that as you can to Trump

Really? So if Obama were still in charge, do you think he would have been dismissing it as a hoax a few months into the crisis? Do you think Obama would have not bothered reading his intelligence briefings?

You people amaze me with your Houdini-like abilities to wriggle out of any responsibility for your Trump-supporting actions.


Well Nancy Pelosi and DiBlasio sure weren't taking it too seriously either and how many died under Joes watch with H1N1?


https://youtu.be/UcvIQJ-QurQ

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/coronavirus-critic-joe-biden-will-need-to-explain-why-he-didnt-replenish-the-medical-supply-reserve-following-swine-flu-pandemic%3f_amp=true

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/25/after-last-pandemic-task-force-advised-obama-to-avert-shortage-of-masks/amp/

What did Pelosi do to merit an unfavourable comparison to Trump on this subject?

As for the masks, we'll probably never know what happened after 2009, because any investigation into it will end up a partisan blame game.

I do wonder though what effect the right's apocalyptic backlash and campaign about deficits and government spending had on this at the time? Remember the Tea Party and the outrage over the 2009 stimulus and the debt ceiling and Obamacare?

What's the odds that if Biden wins, that by this time next year, Mitch will suddenly be back to talking sternly about deficits and the debt and how we just can't afford these things and we'll have Tea Party 2.0 for the 2022 midterms?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 18, 2020, 12:42:50 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/pelosi-encouraged-public-gatherings-in-late-february-weeks-after-trumps-china-travel-ban%3f_amp=true

Look, some on the left want to pin every last death on Trump and that is going to backfire on them

I would agree that a lot of the blame probably lies with those fbckers from the Tea Party.

Instead of sticking on message what are the left ranting about this week-Checks supposedly being delayed by needing Trumps signature......and so far it looks like that attack is just another pile of steaming cow manure (but of course NY Times and WaPo had to run with it)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
Given what was known at the time, what was wrong with what Pelosi (or on a similar note in NYC, DeBlasio) said about trying to get people back to their respective Chinatowns?

This was before Italy. They weren't denying that COVID was potentially going to strike the US. Congress people under Pelosi had already been calling for the administration to take it more seriously while Trump was in active denial and calling their concerns a Democratic hoax even later than that.

What exactly do you think the response would have been had Democratic politicians been calling for actual shutdowns at that point? Seriously.

Right now we've got right wingers coming out with assault weapons in various states protesting about the shutdowns, with Fox News, the rest of right wing media and even Trump himself cheering them on. Even in f**king New Jersey, where hundreds are still dying every day. There is no equivalency to be found here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:10:02 PM
And I should add, that of course you can't blame Trump for all the deaths. This shit was hitting no matter who was in charge. The responsibility is a lot bigger than him.

As I said the other day, he can still do a good job on this. He made a start down that road on Thursday. Hopefully after yesterday's irresponsible outbursts he'll get back on it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
Given what was known at the time, what was wrong with what Pelosi (or on a similar note in NYC, DeBlasio) said about trying to get people back to their respective Chinatowns?

This was before Italy. They weren't denying that COVID was potentially going to strike the US. Congress people under Pelosi had already been calling for the administration to take it more seriously while Trump was in active denial and calling their concerns a Democratic hoax even later than that.

What exactly do you think the response would have been had Democratic politicians been calling for actual shutdowns at that point? Seriously.

Right now we've got right wingers coming out with assault weapons in various states protesting about the shutdowns, with Fox News, the rest of right wing media and even Trump himself cheering them on. Even in f**king New Jersey, where hundreds are still dying every day. There is no equivalency to be found here.

And what would Democrat's have made of it had Trump introduced all these restrictions bang smack in the middle of the impeachment hearings and votes?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
Given what was known at the time, what was wrong with what Pelosi (or on a similar note in NYC, DeBlasio) said about trying to get people back to their respective Chinatowns?

This was before Italy. They weren't denying that COVID was potentially going to strike the US. Congress people under Pelosi had already been calling for the administration to take it more seriously while Trump was in active denial and calling their concerns a Democratic hoax even later than that.

What exactly do you think the response would have been had Democratic politicians been calling for actual shutdowns at that point? Seriously.

Right now we've got right wingers coming out with assault weapons in various states protesting about the shutdowns, with Fox News, the rest of right wing media and even Trump himself cheering them on. Even in f**king New Jersey, where hundreds are still dying every day. There is no equivalency to be found here.

And what would Democrat's have made of it had Trump introduced all these restrictions bang smack in the middle of the impeachment hearings and votes?

If things were like they were a month ago?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
Given what was known at the time, what was wrong with what Pelosi (or on a similar note in NYC, DeBlasio) said about trying to get people back to their respective Chinatowns?

This was before Italy. They weren't denying that COVID was potentially going to strike the US. Congress people under Pelosi had already been calling for the administration to take it more seriously while Trump was in active denial and calling their concerns a Democratic hoax even later than that.

What exactly do you think the response would have been had Democratic politicians been calling for actual shutdowns at that point? Seriously.

Right now we've got right wingers coming out with assault weapons in various states protesting about the shutdowns, with Fox News, the rest of right wing media and even Trump himself cheering them on. Even in f**king New Jersey, where hundreds are still dying every day. There is no equivalency to be found here.

And what would Democrat's have made of it had Trump introduced all these restrictions bang smack in the middle of the impeachment hearings and votes?

What would your granny be if she had balls??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 18, 2020, 03:33:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
Given what was known at the time, what was wrong with what Pelosi (or on a similar note in NYC, DeBlasio) said about trying to get people back to their respective Chinatowns?

This was before Italy. They weren't denying that COVID was potentially going to strike the US. Congress people under Pelosi had already been calling for the administration to take it more seriously while Trump was in active denial and calling their concerns a Democratic hoax even later than that.

What exactly do you think the response would have been had Democratic politicians been calling for actual shutdowns at that point? Seriously.

Right now we've got right wingers coming out with assault weapons in various states protesting about the shutdowns, with Fox News, the rest of right wing media and even Trump himself cheering them on. Even in f**king New Jersey, where hundreds are still dying every day. There is no equivalency to be found here.

And what would Democrat's have made of it had Trump introduced all these restrictions bang smack in the middle of the impeachment hearings and votes?

What would your granny be if she had balls??

Exactly.....very easy for the Democrats to Monday morning quarter back and say what they would have done
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: delgany on April 18, 2020, 03:43:31 PM
United States is in the melting pot right now.
Trump is urging outright rebellion in locked down Democratic led states.
The red necks ,with their powerful gun lobby backers are promoting street protests. This has the potential for complete disaster. 
Trump is a very poor leader, surrounded by yes men, undemocratic , sound bite led, no blame culture.
God help America , if he is re elected.

The only good thing is , he can only be re-elected for 4 more years.  I hope ....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 18, 2020, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: delgany on April 18, 2020, 03:43:31 PM
United States is in the melting pot right now.
Trump is urging outright rebellion in locked down Democratic led states.
The red necks ,with their powerful gun lobby backers are promoting street protests. This has the potential for complete disaster. 
Trump is a very poor leader, surrounded by yes men, undemocratic , sound bite led, no blame culture.
God help America , if he is re elected.

The only good thing is , he can only be re-elected for 4 more years.  I hope ....

This is bordering on dangerous and he's going to create a big problem for these Democratic Governors, but Whitmer should have just done her job instead of interviewing for the VP job by constantly attacking Trump

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/6/while-gov-gretchen-whitmer-attacks-president-trump/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2020, 05:31:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 03:33:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
Given what was known at the time, what was wrong with what Pelosi (or on a similar note in NYC, DeBlasio) said about trying to get people back to their respective Chinatowns?

This was before Italy. They weren't denying that COVID was potentially going to strike the US. Congress people under Pelosi had already been calling for the administration to take it more seriously while Trump was in active denial and calling their concerns a Democratic hoax even later than that.

What exactly do you think the response would have been had Democratic politicians been calling for actual shutdowns at that point? Seriously.

Right now we've got right wingers coming out with assault weapons in various states protesting about the shutdowns, with Fox News, the rest of right wing media and even Trump himself cheering them on. Even in f**king New Jersey, where hundreds are still dying every day. There is no equivalency to be found here.

And what would Democrat's have made of it had Trump introduced all these restrictions bang smack in the middle of the impeachment hearings and votes?

What would your granny be if she had balls??

Exactly.....very easy for the Democrats to Monday morning quarter back and say what they would have done

Well, at the very least we can say that the Dems take science, expertise and government oversight and action a hell of a lot more seriously than the current GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2020, 05:42:25 PM
Quote from: delgany on April 18, 2020, 03:43:31 PM
United States is in the melting pot right now.
Trump is urging outright rebellion in locked down Democratic led states.
The red necks ,with their powerful gun lobby backers are promoting street protests. This has the potential for complete disaster. 
Trump is a very poor leader, surrounded by yes men, undemocratic , sound bite led, no blame culture.
God help America , if he is re elected.

The only good thing is , he can only be re-elected for 4 more years.  I hope ....

Let's hope the governors don't give into them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 18, 2020, 06:00:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
Given what was known at the time, what was wrong with what Pelosi (or on a similar note in NYC, DeBlasio) said about trying to get people back to their respective Chinatowns?

This was before Italy. They weren't denying that COVID was potentially going to strike the US. Congress people under Pelosi had already been calling for the administration to take it more seriously while Trump was in active denial and calling their concerns a Democratic hoax even later than that.

What exactly do you think the response would have been had Democratic politicians been calling for actual shutdowns at that point? Seriously.

Right now we've got right wingers coming out with assault weapons in various states protesting about the shutdowns, with Fox News, the rest of right wing media and even Trump himself cheering them on. Even in f**king New Jersey, where hundreds are still dying every day. There is no equivalency to be found here.

And what would Democrat's have made of it had Trump introduced all these restrictions bang smack in the middle of the impeachment hearings and votes?

What would your granny be if she had balls??
a transgender granny
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2020, 06:06:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 18, 2020, 06:00:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
Given what was known at the time, what was wrong with what Pelosi (or on a similar note in NYC, DeBlasio) said about trying to get people back to their respective Chinatowns?

This was before Italy. They weren't denying that COVID was potentially going to strike the US. Congress people under Pelosi had already been calling for the administration to take it more seriously while Trump was in active denial and calling their concerns a Democratic hoax even later than that.

What exactly do you think the response would have been had Democratic politicians been calling for actual shutdowns at that point? Seriously.

Right now we've got right wingers coming out with assault weapons in various states protesting about the shutdowns, with Fox News, the rest of right wing media and even Trump himself cheering them on. Even in f**king New Jersey, where hundreds are still dying every day. There is no equivalency to be found here.

And what would Democrat's have made of it had Trump introduced all these restrictions bang smack in the middle of the impeachment hearings and votes?

What would your granny be if she had balls??
a transgender granny
;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 18, 2020, 06:44:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 18, 2020, 06:00:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 18, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
Given what was known at the time, what was wrong with what Pelosi (or on a similar note in NYC, DeBlasio) said about trying to get people back to their respective Chinatowns?

This was before Italy. They weren't denying that COVID was potentially going to strike the US. Congress people under Pelosi had already been calling for the administration to take it more seriously while Trump was in active denial and calling their concerns a Democratic hoax even later than that.

What exactly do you think the response would have been had Democratic politicians been calling for actual shutdowns at that point? Seriously.

Right now we've got right wingers coming out with assault weapons in various states protesting about the shutdowns, with Fox News, the rest of right wing media and even Trump himself cheering them on. Even in f**king New Jersey, where hundreds are still dying every day. There is no equivalency to be found here.

And what would Democrat's have made of it had Trump introduced all these restrictions bang smack in the middle of the impeachment hearings and votes?

What would your granny be if she had balls??
a transgender granny

An Elizabeth Warren voter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 11:58:53 PM
I enjoyed that one gmac and there're was me thinking the right had no sense of humour!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on April 19, 2020, 12:17:37 AM
Yip that was a good one ;D :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2020, 10:57:35 PM
Notice how people like Whitey answer every awkward question with a question?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 20, 2020, 02:24:50 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2020, 10:57:35 PM
Notice how people like Whitey answer every awkward question with a question?

But what about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 21, 2020, 03:42:01 AM
The German satire site "Der Postillion" came up with a work of simple genius (translated below):


Terrible suspicion: Was Trump bred in a Chinese laboratory to harm the United States?

Washington (dpo) - It sounds far-fetched - and according to experts, it cannot be ruled out: More and more people suspect that Donald Trump may not have come to exist randomly, but was bred in a Chinese laboratory to cause serious damage to the United States.

"The Chinese government is now acting as if it has nothing to do with the situation in the United States," explains a user on the Facebook page Corona Truthers. "But is it really a coincidence that we now have a man in the White House who can hardly speak English and does everything possible to undermine a unified response to the crisis?"

Trump's physical appearance is also fuelling speculation: Some suspect that the US President's unlikely complexion and jumbled hairstyle are due to the fact that Chinese scientists have no precise idea of what people from western cultures actually look like.

Already demands for damages are being issued to China - demands which the People's Republic is categorically rejecting.

Serious scientists are rather cautious: "So far, we assume that Trump was created naturally. However, we cannot rule out 100% his development in a Chinese laboratory," explains biochemist Celine Smith-Garcia from the University of Washington.

A blame-game is inappropriate anyway. "Currently, the most important task for the international community is to contain the consequences of Donald Trump as much as possible and to ensure that not too many people die because of him."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 09:28:30 AM
So the big business man was president whenever oil prices were nearly MINUS $40 dollars a barrel.

Great work big business man.

[So how much more profit would yer dad's money have made off interest in the bank than you made using it in your big investments again?]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 09:41:23 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 09:28:30 AM
So the big business man was president whenever oil prices were nearly MINUS $40 dollars a barrel.

Great work big business man.

[So how much more profit would yer dad's money have made off interest in the bank than you made using it in your big investments again?]

Thought he got the Russians and the Saudis together to sort this out.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 09:56:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 09:41:23 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 09:28:30 AM
So the big business man was president whenever oil prices were nearly MINUS $40 dollars a barrel.

Great work big business man.

[So how much more profit would yer dad's money have made off interest in the bank than you made using it in your big investments again?]

Thought he got the Russians and the Saudis together to sort this out.

Gonna do a deal and it'll be the best deal ever...

No one knows more about paying people to take oil than me...


That sound about right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
What is wrong with America as a country? When did it become this mental between Rep & Dem / Libs & Cons??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
What is wrong with America as a country? When did it become this mental between Rep & Dem / Libs & Cons??

When President Obama took over the Republicans went off the deep end which led to the emergence of the Tea Party. Most "moderate" Republicans then vered further right to avoid getting primaried.

Then when Trump got elected, the Democrats version of the Tea Party Emerged with AOC and Ilan Omar being the public face who just oppose everything and vilify anyone who isn't in complete agreement with them on everything
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
It's got an end of days feel about it, last days of the Roman Empire.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
It's got an end of days feel about it, last days of the Roman Empire.

It really does.

(At least) one of two things seem inevitable at this point:

1. Split of both Democrats & GOP into at least 3, possibly four parties
2. Break up of the USA

It cannot keep polarising as it has been without significant consequences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
It's got an end of days feel about it, last days of the Roman Empire.

It really does.

(At least) one of two things seem inevitable at this point:

1. Split of both Democrats & GOP into at least 3, possibly four parties
2. Break up of the USA

It cannot keep polarising as it has been without significant consequences.

Into States like the old USSR?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
It's got an end of days feel about it, last days of the Roman Empire.

It really does.

(At least) one of two things seem inevitable at this point:

1. Split of both Democrats & GOP into at least 3, possibly four parties
2. Break up of the USA

It cannot keep polarising as it has been without significant consequences.

Into States like the old USSR?

Well, they were mostly countries before the USSR and largely went back to being the same countries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2020, 12:08:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
What is wrong with America as a country? When did it become this mental between Rep & Dem / Libs & Cons??

When President Obama took over the Republicans went off the deep end which led to the emergence of the Tea Party. Most "moderate" Republicans then vered further right to avoid getting primaried.

Then when Trump got elected, the Democrats version of the Tea Party Emerged with AOC and Ilan Omar being the public face who just oppose everything and vilify anyone who isn't in complete agreement with them on everything

Big difference being that they are minor players on the Democratic side.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2020, 12:19:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
It's got an end of days feel about it, last days of the Roman Empire.

It really does.

(At least) one of two things seem inevitable at this point:

1. Split of both Democrats & GOP into at least 3, possibly four parties
2. Break up of the USA

It cannot keep polarising as it has been without significant consequences.

I had to switch off the evening news last night, looking at those brainless fuckwits, some armed to the teeth, out demonstrating with their signs for Trump and calling the virus a hoax and hurling abuse at a healthcare worker out counter demonstrating.

I've nothing in common with these people. Where do you start with a group whose mentality is to falsely invalidate and dismiss any science or expertise that conflicts with their political view?

Fox News, having found that there are few doctors willing to toe the right wing line are now wheeling out the likes of Dr Phil, nothing but a pop psychologist, to tell the world that the shutdowns are all overkill. Or that other eejit, Dr Oz, supposedly a trained cardiologist, told us on Fox that a 2% mortality rate would be worth it to get kids back to school ( he later tried to backtrack).

There's a fracture coming. Particularly with the electoral college and the Senate. They can control both those and thus the courts for decades with a minority of the vote and there has to be a backlash to their fucked up view of the world being imposed on the majority sooner or later.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 12:22:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
It's got an end of days feel about it, last days of the Roman Empire.

It really does.

(At least) one of two things seem inevitable at this point:

1. Split of both Democrats & GOP into at least 3, possibly four parties
2. Break up of the USA

It cannot keep polarising as it has been without significant consequences.

Into States like the old USSR?

Well, they were mostly countries before the USSR and largely went back to being the same countries.

That's the point I was going to make.

I know most states have their own government of sorts but there's no history of being an independent state and are still reliant on the Federal Gov in Washington DC

How would it break up though!

Really can't see it as much as politics in the US is truly poisonous at the minute.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 12:25:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 12:22:34 PM
That's the point I was going to make.

I know most states have their own government of sorts but there's no history of being an independent state and are still reliant on the Federal Gov in Washington DC

How would it break up though!

Really can't see it as much as politics in the US is truly poisonous at the minute.

I''d have thought ideologically, you'd see, East Coast, Central & West Coast as 3 separate regions of significantly different political opinions (well, coasts are similar, but separated geographically so would be different "superstates").


I know its hard to envisage - but if you consider where things were when Dubya came in and where they are now - how long can things continue on this trajectory before something breaks?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2020, 01:23:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2020, 12:08:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
What is wrong with America as a country? When did it become this mental between Rep & Dem / Libs & Cons??

When President Obama took over the Republicans went off the deep end which led to the emergence of the Tea Party. Most "moderate" Republicans then vered further right to avoid getting primaried.

Then when Trump got elected, the Democrats version of the Tea Party Emerged with AOC and Ilan Omar being the public face who just oppose everything and vilify anyone who isn't in complete agreement with them on everything

Big difference being that they are minor players on the Democratic side.

So AOC is a minor player on the Democratic side ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2020, 01:30:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2020, 01:23:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2020, 12:08:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
What is wrong with America as a country? When did it become this mental between Rep & Dem / Libs & Cons??

When President Obama took over the Republicans went off the deep end which led to the emergence of the Tea Party. Most "moderate" Republicans then vered further right to avoid getting primaried.

Then when Trump got elected, the Democrats version of the Tea Party Emerged with AOC and Ilan Omar being the public face who just oppose everything and vilify anyone who isn't in complete agreement with them on everything

Big difference being that they are minor players on the Democratic side.

So AOC is a minor player on the Democratic side ?

At this point, yes.

I know the right likes to paint her as this massive, influential pinko commie who is taking over the Democratic party and about to ban the internal combustion engine and nationalize all business, but in the real world, what influence does she really have  where it matters?

You think Pelosi takes orders from her?

Is Joe Biden going to pick her for VP or put her in his cabinet if he wins?

She is a very articulate, smart, charismatic character for sure, but let's not overstate her standing. Especially in a party as fragmented as the Democrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/01/aoc-first-year-in-washington.html


"the youngest woman elected to the House of Representatives in the body's 230-year history, has emerged as perhaps the most significant political figure in the Democratic Party in the age of Trump"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2020, 01:53:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/01/aoc-first-year-in-washington.html


"the youngest woman elected to the House of Representatives in the body's 230-year history, has emerged as perhaps the most significant political figure in the Democratic Party in the age of Trump"

Did you read that piece beyond the headline?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on April 21, 2020, 03:27:24 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
It's got an end of days feel about it, last days of the Roman Empire.

It really does.

(At least) one of two things seem inevitable at this point:


2. Break up of the USA

It cannot keep polarising as it has been without significant consequences.
Please Lord and the quicker the better
And the "UK" also while you're at it Lord.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2020, 04:58:12 PM
Few points about AOC.


That said, the Democrats are a long way off having a popular movement on the same scale as the Tea Party, but then they don't have an activist TV network like Fox News on their side.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2020, 05:27:08 PM
Agree with most of that apart from the piece where you claim she would shred anyone in a debate

Some of her ideas, eg New Green Deal simply don't stand up to any degree of scrutiny

And let's admit it, if she wasn't hot she wouldn't have gotten where she is

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2020, 06:40:08 PM
On abolishing ICE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXF6tfxj5yk

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2020, 06:40:08 PM
On abolishing ICE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXF6tfxj5yk

Lol-you can't argue with crazy

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2020, 09:19:24 PM
Indeed. The modern Gestapo does not need reform or a few tweaks around the edge. It is legalized thuggery that attracts violent thugs like a jar of honey attracts wasps. It needs to be shut down and scrapped.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2020, 09:31:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2020, 09:19:24 PM
Indeed. The modern Gestapo does not need reform or a few tweaks around the edge. It is legalized thuggery that attracts violent thugs like a jar of honey attracts wasps. It needs to be shut down and scrapped.

That's a great position for the Democrats to take for the general election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 24, 2020, 03:46:07 AM
New election slogan

Quote"Joe Biden: He'll Never Tell to You Drink Disinfectant"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 24, 2020, 07:56:20 AM
Trump is insane.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 24, 2020, 08:26:03 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2020, 07:56:20 AM
Trump is insane.

He's fúcked in the head alright.

Image all those Trump supporters having a good slurp of the old domestos to cure CV-19!.

Maybe not a bad thing  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 09:56:05 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2020, 08:26:03 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2020, 07:56:20 AM
Trump is insane.

He's fúcked in the head alright.

Image all those Trump supporters having a good slurp of the old domestos to cure CV-19!.

Maybe not a bad thing  :D

How long will we have to wait??

"Florida man dies from drinking disinfectant after advice from Donald Trump"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 24, 2020, 10:21:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2020, 08:26:03 AM


Image all those Trump supporters having a good slurp of the old domestos to cure CV-19!.

Maybe not a bad thing  :D
Toilet Donald Duck?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 24, 2020, 10:25:12 AM
Susie Dent's apt word for the day;

ultracrepidarian

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on April 24, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
We have to get light into the body. Bleach too. Where do these rank in his stupidest statements? Noise causes cancer probably number one for me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2020, 11:07:08 AM
He needs something to peddle to his followers. Especially after the malaria drug himself and Fox News and right wing Facebook were hyping for weeks was this week shown to be rather harmful in reality.

The state of Washington issued a tweet last night warning residents NOT to ingest or inject disinfectants!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on April 24, 2020, 11:14:56 AM
Trump's existence and the numbers of Yanks voting for him has to raise questions about Evolution or has it in fact begun to reverse?
5,000 or 7,000 years ago humans built Newgrange with all its complications.
Now you have a brainless form of life in the White House and countless millions slavishly supporting him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2020, 12:06:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2020, 11:07:08 AM
He needs something to peddle to his followers. Especially after the malaria drug himself and Fox News and right wing Facebook were hyping for weeks was this week shown to be rather harmful in reality.

The state of Washington issued a tweet last night warning residents NOT to ingest or inject disinfectants!  ;D

Surely there must be some sort of middle ground in the US who know this is bollix and who are less likely to vote for Trump as a consequence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2020, 12:37:06 PM
They live in an alternate reality where their ignorant opinions are just as valid as those of professionals and experts. All that matters is sticking it to the libtards. Mitch McConnell is telling states hit bad by COVID that they can just declare bankruptcy. f**king commie cesspits.

Never mind what a bankrupt state of New York would mean for the national economy!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 24, 2020, 01:04:47 PM
I'm all for helping out my neighbors during times like these, but why the fvck should the taxpayers of other states pay one cent to bail out a state like Illinois without them addressing their pension woes


https://www.news-gazette.com/coronavirus/jim-dey-illinois-bailout-could-come-in-form-of-bankruptcy/article_2a2f8404-d78c-5331-a51f-89790ded54fc.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2020, 01:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 24, 2020, 01:04:47 PM
I'm all for helping out my neighbors during times like these, but why the fvck should the taxpayers of other states pay one cent to bail out a state like Illinois without them addressing their pension woes


https://www.news-gazette.com/coronavirus/jim-dey-illinois-bailout-could-come-in-form-of-bankruptcy/article_2a2f8404-d78c-5331-a51f-89790ded54fc.html

That's fair enough.

We went through pension and benefits reform in NY about ten years ago. I started a few years work at a public agency at the time, and what I enrolled in paled in comparison to what the lifers were receiving and vested into as NY had to tackle the problem.

However, in the short term, without federal help, already stretched states with large COVID-related holes in their budgets are going to be laying off cops, firemen, teachers, reducing funding for health systems even more (at the worst time) and so on and on.

Is McConnell going to pull FEMA assistance when hurricanes hit the south this year? Or wildfires? Why should my NY tax money be spent controlling fires for communities built in wildfire zones or helping residents and local governments in the documented path of hurricanes or tornadoes? (I'm not seriously advocating for the abolition of FEMA or the vital work it does, just making the point that the Feds have a responsibility to their citizens).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 24, 2020, 02:01:53 PM
And as I said I believe the government (and citizens) have moral obligations to help those less fortunate, including people who are here without documentation (believe it or not)

But read this article..... https://www.bettergov.org/news/cta-execs-ride-the-pension-express/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2020, 02:23:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 24, 2020, 02:01:53 PM
And as I said I believe the government (and citizens) have moral obligations to help those less fortunate, including people who are here without documentation (believe it or not)

But read this article..... https://www.bettergov.org/news/cta-execs-ride-the-pension-express/

The government agency I worked for in NY back then had a few similar stories when they brought in early retirement for long term employees around 2010 in response to the economic crisis.

Part of it is a police force, and they had a practice at the time of piling up the overtime in their last three years as their pension payout was based on last three years of pay.

To this day, some of the tristate suburban towns surrounding NYC pay out very large salaries to their local police brass as well, well in excess of what senior management in the NYPD would be getting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on April 24, 2020, 02:39:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 09:56:05 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2020, 08:26:03 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2020, 07:56:20 AM
Trump is insane.

He's fúcked in the head alright.

Image all those Trump supporters having a good slurp of the old domestos to cure CV-19!.

Maybe not a bad thing  :D

How long will we have to wait??

"Florida man dies from drinking disinfectant after advice from Donald Trump"

Hopefully plenty of them try it before September.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 24, 2020, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 24, 2020, 02:01:53 PM
And as I said I believe the government (and citizens) have moral obligations to help those less fortunate, including people who are here without documentation (believe it or not)

But read this article..... https://www.bettergov.org/news/cta-execs-ride-the-pension-express/

Pensions are a huge problem in America. I read a book called While America Aged (How Pension Debts Ruined General Motors, Stopped the NYC Subways, Bankrupted San Diego, and Loom as the Next Financial Crisis)

It discussed how easy it was for management and workers to agree to generous pension deals, secure in the knowledge that "other people" would have to work out how to deliver the promised riches. In NY, as well as the subways, Long Island Railroad (LIRR) has a massive pension problem, with huge numbers of people getting a disablity diagnois upon retirement to boost their pension.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 24, 2020, 10:09:26 PM
Ah, the old "pensions are going to kill us all" trope. Another beloved argument of the right when they can't find a rebuttal to the facts about how Democratic jurisdictions consistently have better finances than Rethuglican ones.

Quoth the Brookings Institution:

QuoteWe take a different perspective, gauging the fiscal sustainability of a sample of 40 state and local pension plans by looking at their cash flows over time and determining when (or if) they will require outside funding to meet their obligations. We then estimate the increased funding that would stabilize the pension plans in the long run—that is, keep their obligations stable measured against the size of the economy. The way we look at it, an unfunded pension liability is similar to a government having debt, and a government's debt is sustainable so long as its size relative to the economy isn't continuously increasing.

The message from these exercises is that for most (but certainly not all) plans, there is no imminent crisis in the sense that the plans are likely to exhaust their assets within the next two decades.

Source (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/07/15/are-state-and-local-pension-funds-really-in-crisis/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on April 25, 2020, 08:33:17 AM
One of the first thing that got tackled post financial crash in the UK, public sector pension reform. Never mind the Banks, tax evasion etc... I remember Andrew Neil referring to it as the Government going after ' the low hanging fruit' option at the time, public opinion was easily swayed. Times of crisis (& recovery) are cover for a lot of unpalatable policy, there will be carnage after this!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2020, 06:47:21 PM
Oh, and blue states have been subsidizing the red states for decades. You're welcome.

(https://d2e70e9yced57e.cloudfront.net/wallethub/posts/72066/blue-vs-red-image-tax-rates-2020-400x371-v1.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on April 26, 2020, 07:13:55 PM
Any of you crazy Americans inject disinfectant over the weekend?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 26, 2020, 07:14:26 PM
As a blue state Democrat, why are you okay with your tax dollars paying $100K pensions to politically connected people who retire @ age 49, then the following Monday start a new (political patronage)  job  making $200K +? (And possibly qualify for a second and third pension)

https://www.bettergov.org/news/cta-execs-ride-the-pension-express/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 26, 2020, 08:03:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2020, 07:13:55 PM
Any of you crazy Americans inject disinfectant over the weekend?
no, more of a uv light man .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 26, 2020, 08:35:17 PM
Plenty of it down here this weekend GMac
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2020, 02:04:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 26, 2020, 07:14:26 PM
As a blue state Democrat, why are you okay with your tax dollars paying $100K pensions to politically connected people who retire @ age 49, then the following Monday start a new (political patronage)  job  making $200K +? (And possibly qualify for a second and third pension)

https://www.bettergov.org/news/cta-execs-ride-the-pension-express/

Well I'm glad there's no waste, fraud or abuse in any of the taker red states. Said nobody ever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 27, 2020, 02:59:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2020, 02:04:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 26, 2020, 07:14:26 PM
As a blue state Democrat, why are you okay with your tax dollars paying $100K pensions to politically connected people who retire @ age 49, then the following Monday start a new (political patronage)  job  making $200K +? (And possibly qualify for a second and third pension)

https://www.bettergov.org/news/cta-execs-ride-the-pension-express/

Well I'm glad there's no waste, fraud or abuse in any of the taker red states. Said nobody ever.

So I take it that's a yes, then. Good for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2020, 03:03:52 AM
Right on, Whitey. $200,000. What a scandal.

How big do you think a state budget is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 27, 2020, 03:24:53 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2020, 03:03:52 AM
Right on, Whitey. $200,000. What a scandal.

How big do you think a state budget is?


These pension obligations could actually sink states such as IL , CT and NJ, but believe what you want....it's a free country
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2020, 03:03:52 AM
Right on, Whitey. $200,000. What a scandal.

How big do you think a state budget is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 27, 2020, 01:38:12 PM
He really is an idiot

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWjRhBMUcAMsgtl?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 04:08:09 PM
He must tweet all that stuff all day and chuckle to himself after he hits return! The guy is a WUM and loves attention, good or bad it doesn't matter, unfortunately hes in control of the States and able to get away with whatever he wants it seems!

The power surge he needs could light up a city!

Trump reminds me of that saying below:

Absolute monarchies are those in which all power is given to or, as is more often the case, taken by, the monarch. Examples of absolute power having a corrupting influence are Roman emperors (who declared themselves gods) and Napoleon Bonaparte (who declared himself an emperor).

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" arose as part of a quotation by the expansively named and impressively hirsute John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 27, 2020, 04:21:09 PM
"The guy is a WUM and loves attention"

Which is fine if you don't have something more important to be doing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 27, 2020, 06:31:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 04:08:09 PM
Trump reminds me of that saying below:

Absolute monarchies are those in which all power is given to or, as is more often the case, taken by, the monarch. Examples of absolute power having a corrupting influence are Roman emperors (who declared themselves gods) and Napoleon Bonaparte (who declared himself an emperor).

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" arose as part of a quotation by the expansively named and impressively hirsute John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

Anyone who talks about absolute power in the context of the US is raving. The US entire Constitution is built on checks and balances.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: pbat on April 27, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Trumps numbers were to nosedive in the polls over the next few months he wouldn't withdraw from running again rather that face losing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2020, 07:58:36 PM
Quote from: five points on April 27, 2020, 06:31:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 04:08:09 PM
Trump reminds me of that saying below:

Absolute monarchies are those in which all power is given to or, as is more often the case, taken by, the monarch. Examples of absolute power having a corrupting influence are Roman emperors (who declared themselves gods) and Napoleon Bonaparte (who declared himself an emperor).

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" arose as part of a quotation by the expansively named and impressively hirsute John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

Anyone who talks about absolute power in the context of the US is raving. The US entire Constitution is built on checks and balances.

In theory it is. In practice it's riddled with undemocratic weaknesses that are very difficult to fix. Examples:


I could go on. The idea that the US system is some sort of example to the world of fairness is just fantasy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2020, 07:59:28 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 27, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Trumps numbers were to nosedive in the polls over the next few months he wouldn't withdraw from running again rather that face losing.

If that did happen (and so far it doesn't look like it) he'd just deny the reality and lie about his numbers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2020, 08:02:34 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 27, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Trumps numbers were to nosedive in the polls over the next few months he wouldn't withdraw from running again rather that face losing.

He didn't withdraw in 2016 when polls gave him a one in three chance. Obviously those are far from insurmountable odds, but he was still a strong underdog and, by various accounts, fairly shocked on the night to have actually won.

It will come down to the battleground states again and whether the coming assault on Biden (word is it is going to centre around China) works in those places.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 27, 2020, 08:14:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2020, 08:02:34 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 27, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Trumps numbers were to nosedive in the polls over the next few months he wouldn't withdraw from running again rather that face losing.

He didn't withdraw in 2016 when polls gave him a one in three chance. Obviously those are far from insurmountable odds, but he was still a strong underdog and, by various accounts, fairly shocked on the night to have actually won.

It will come down to the battleground states again and whether the coming assault on Biden (word is it is going to centre around China) works in those places.

Oh I'm sure the Democrats will be also able to come up with some cockamamie policies that will completely alienate the very people they need to vote for them in November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2020, 08:40:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 27, 2020, 08:14:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2020, 08:02:34 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 27, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Trumps numbers were to nosedive in the polls over the next few months he wouldn't withdraw from running again rather that face losing.

He didn't withdraw in 2016 when polls gave him a one in three chance. Obviously those are far from insurmountable odds, but he was still a strong underdog and, by various accounts, fairly shocked on the night to have actually won.

It will come down to the battleground states again and whether the coming assault on Biden (word is it is going to centre around China) works in those places.

Oh I'm sure the Democrats will be also able to come up with some cockamamie policies that will completely alienate the very people they need to vote for them in November.

I'm sure there'll be something there for the GOP to stoke. Fear and hate are, after all, so much easier to sell, and are Trump's specialty.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 27, 2020, 08:44:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2020, 08:40:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 27, 2020, 08:14:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2020, 08:02:34 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 27, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Trumps numbers were to nosedive in the polls over the next few months he wouldn't withdraw from running again rather that face losing.

He didn't withdraw in 2016 when polls gave him a one in three chance. Obviously those are far from insurmountable odds, but he was still a strong underdog and, by various accounts, fairly shocked on the night to have actually won.

It will come down to the battleground states again and whether the coming assault on Biden (word is it is going to centre around China) works in those places.

Oh I'm sure the Democrats will be also able to come up with some cockamamie policies that will completely alienate the very people they need to vote for them in November.

I'm sure there'll be something there for the GOP to stoke. Fear and hate are, after all, so much easier to sell, and are Trump's specialty.

You're giving them way too much credit

The Democrats are well able to hit the self destruct button without any help from Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2020, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 27, 2020, 08:44:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2020, 08:40:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 27, 2020, 08:14:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2020, 08:02:34 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 27, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Trumps numbers were to nosedive in the polls over the next few months he wouldn't withdraw from running again rather that face losing.

He didn't withdraw in 2016 when polls gave him a one in three chance. Obviously those are far from insurmountable odds, but he was still a strong underdog and, by various accounts, fairly shocked on the night to have actually won.

It will come down to the battleground states again and whether the coming assault on Biden (word is it is going to centre around China) works in those places.

Oh I'm sure the Democrats will be also able to come up with some cockamamie policies that will completely alienate the very people they need to vote for them in November.

I'm sure there'll be something there for the GOP to stoke. Fear and hate are, after all, so much easier to sell, and are Trump's specialty.

You're giving them way too much credit

The Democrats are well able to hit the self destruct button without any help from Trump

No doubt, the Dems are experts in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!

But Trump is in a class of his own with building publicity and a campaign on fear and division.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 27, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Dems have really painted themselves into a corner with this allegation of sexual assault against Joe Biden.  I thought the Kavanaugh allegation was a fabrication and I think this allegation is a fabrication, but this one is actually somewhat credible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 12:01:04 AM
Does sexual assault allegations even go against you in the states?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 12:11:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 12:01:04 AM
Does sexual assault allegations even go against you in the states?

Probably depends on who you are and who you assaulted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:20:20 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 12:11:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 12:01:04 AM
Does sexual assault allegations even go against you in the states?

Probably depends on who you are and who you assaulted.

And how the media treats the allegations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2020, 12:40:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 27, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Dems have really painted themselves into a corner with this allegation of sexual assault against Joe Biden.  I thought the Kavanaugh allegation was a fabrication and I think this allegation is a fabrication, but this one is actually somewhat credible

I think they may both be true, but I obviously have no way of knowing either way. Why do you think it's a fabrication?

Luckily for Biden, he's coming up against a man with two dozen allegations against him, albeit a person who appears incapable of embarrassment and shame.

He still needs to address it though. By his own words she deserves to be heard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:58:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 12:40:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 27, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Dems have really painted themselves into a corner with this allegation of sexual assault against Joe Biden.  I thought the Kavanaugh allegation was a fabrication and I think this allegation is a fabrication, but this one is actually somewhat credible

I think they may both be true, but I obviously have no way of knowing either way. Why do you think it's a fabrication?

Luckily for Biden, he's coming up against a man with two dozen allegations against him, albeit a person who appears incapable of embarrassment and shame.

He still needs to address it though. By his own words she deserves to be heard.

Like with Kavanaugh,, but even more so.....Joe Biden has been vetted inside out and up and down several times. Even rumours of things like this are fully investigated during a vetting process.

If there was anything there, it would have come out long ago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 28, 2020, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:58:28 AM]

Like with Kavanaugh,, but even more so.....Joe Biden has been vetted inside out and up and down several times. Even rumours of things like this are fully investigated during a vetting process.

If there was anything there, it would have come out long ago

Excellent point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:06:38 PM
Some serious chatter on the right wing news/blogs about Flynn.

Whether it's true or not it looks like there may be significant developments later this week

And I also see that Flynn just reactivated his twitter account after an absence is 3/4 years

If 1/3 of what's being said is true, it should chill every American to the bone
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2020, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:06:38 PM
Some serious chatter on the right wing news/blogs about Flynn.

Whether it's true or not it looks like there may be significant developments later this week

And I also see that Flynn just reactivated his twitter account after an absence is 3/4 years

If 1/3 of what's being said is true, it should chill every American to the bone

If he was actually framed by the FBI then well . . . that would be crazy shit!! We'll have to see what the new info is!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:09:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2020, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:06:38 PM
Some serious chatter on the right wing news/blogs about Flynn.

Whether it's true or not it looks like there may be significant developments later this week

And I also see that Flynn just reactivated his twitter account after an absence is 3/4 years

If 1/3 of what's being said is true, it should chill every American to the bone

If he was actually framed by the FBI then well . . . that would be crazy shit!! We'll have to see what the new info is!

Will the right be joining Black Lives Matter in finally acknowledging that corruption and bias in law enforcement can actually be a thing??

I guess we'll have to wait and see if there is anything substantial to this. I glanced through a piece by Andew McCarthy in National Review and the jist appears to be that Flynn lied, but that he shouldn't have been questioned in the first place, and that they used a crime by his son as leverage, but it was a crime that is very rarely enforced.

It was a quick glance, so I may have missed something and stand open to correction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:12:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:58:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 12:40:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 27, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Dems have really painted themselves into a corner with this allegation of sexual assault against Joe Biden.  I thought the Kavanaugh allegation was a fabrication and I think this allegation is a fabrication, but this one is actually somewhat credible

I think they may both be true, but I obviously have no way of knowing either way. Why do you think it's a fabrication?

Luckily for Biden, he's coming up against a man with two dozen allegations against him, albeit a person who appears incapable of embarrassment and shame.

He still needs to address it though. By his own words she deserves to be heard.

Like with Kavanaugh,, but even more so.....Joe Biden has been vetted inside out and up and down several times. Even rumours of things like this are fully investigated during a vetting process.

If there was anything there, it would have come out long ago

But were campaigns taking sexual harrassment and assault allegations as seriously back then before MeToo?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:09:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2020, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:06:38 PM
Some serious chatter on the right wing news/blogs about Flynn.

Whether it's true or not it looks like there may be significant developments later this week

And I also see that Flynn just reactivated his twitter account after an absence is 3/4 years

If 1/3 of what's being said is true, it should chill every American to the bone

If he was actually framed by the FBI then well . . . that would be crazy shit!! We'll have to see what the new info is!

Will the right be joining Black Lives Matter in finally acknowledging that corruption and bias in law enforcement can actually be a thing??

I guess we'll have to wait and see if there is anything substantial to this. I glanced through a piece by Andew McCarthy in National Review and the jist appears to be that Flynn lied, but that he shouldn't have been questioned in the first place, and that they used a crime by his son as leverage, but it was a crime that is very rarely enforced.

It was a quick glance, so I may have missed something and stand open to correction.

J70-if it's true, then this was all part of a concerted effort to undermine the Trump Presidency from day 1, and add fuel to the whole Russia narrative. Once again (like during the FISA application process) it's alleged that the FBI knowingly withheld evidence that would either have completely exonerated Flynn or at the very least put his prosecution on very, very thin ice. And now there may actually be evidence that the FBI conspired with Flynn's defense team AGAINST him

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2020, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:09:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2020, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:06:38 PM
Some serious chatter on the right wing news/blogs about Flynn.

Whether it's true or not it looks like there may be significant developments later this week

And I also see that Flynn just reactivated his twitter account after an absence is 3/4 years

If 1/3 of what's being said is true, it should chill every American to the bone

If he was actually framed by the FBI then well . . . that would be crazy shit!! We'll have to see what the new info is!

Will the right be joining Black Lives Matter in finally acknowledging that corruption and bias in law enforcement can actually be a thing??

I guess we'll have to wait and see if there is anything substantial to this. I glanced through a piece by Andew McCarthy in National Review and the jist appears to be that Flynn lied, but that he shouldn't have been questioned in the first place, and that they used a crime by his son as leverage, but it was a crime that is very rarely enforced.

It was a quick glance, so I may have missed something and stand open to correction.

J70-if it's true, then this was all part of a concerted effort to undermine the Trump Presidency from day 1, and add fuel to the whole Russia narrative. Once again (like during the FISA application process) it's alleged that the FBI knowingly withheld evidence that would either have completely exonerated Flynn or at the very least put his prosecution on very, very thin ice. And now there may actually be evidence that the FBI conspired with Flynn's defense team AGAINST him

??? Like I said, we'll see what happens.

For something with zero substance to it (even though the Senate found, again, just last week, that the Russians were actively trying to help Trump), a lot of covering up and obstructing and lying was apparently done in the aftermath.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 28, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:12:44 PM
But were campaigns taking sexual harrassment and assault allegations as seriously back then before MeToo?

I can't imagine how not.  Ever since the farce of Gary Hart in 1987 (and Hart merely cheated on his wife) any hint of sexual misconduct has been a total no-no for any candidate ever since.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2020, 02:14:05 PM
Quote from: five points on April 28, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:12:44 PM
But were campaigns taking sexual harrassment and assault allegations as seriously back then before MeToo?

I can't imagine how not.  Ever since the farce of Gary Hart in 1987 (and Hart merely cheated on his wife) any hint of sexual misconduct has been a total no-no for any candidate ever since.

Any candidate? ;D

We've come a long way since Gary Hart, on a number of fronts.

On the one hand, we've a president with dozens of allegations against him, who boasted of groping women's genitals and who paid off a porn star for her silence on an affair he had with her while his wife was breastfeeding his infant son.

On the other, a major, all-powerful Hollywood producer and a legendary comedian are now in prison for more or less the rest of their lives for sexual assault.

Regardless, as whitey says, this is a difficult one for the Democrats, especially the women in the running for the VP slot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2020, 02:22:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 02:14:05 PM
Quote from: five points on April 28, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:12:44 PM
But were campaigns taking sexual harrassment and assault allegations as seriously back then before MeToo?

I can't imagine how not.  Ever since the farce of Gary Hart in 1987 (and Hart merely cheated on his wife) any hint of sexual misconduct has been a total no-no for any candidate ever since.

Any candidate? ;D

We've come a long way since Gary Hart, on a number of fronts.

On the one hand, we've a president with dozens of allegations against him, who boasted of groping women's genitals and who paid off a porn star for her silence on an affair he had with her while his wife was breastfeeding his infant son.

On the other, a major, all-powerful Hollywood producer and a legendary comedian are now in prison for more or less the rest of their lives for sexual assault.

Regardless, as whitey says, this is a difficult one for the Democrats, especially the women in the running for the VP slot.

But I think due to some of the Senate Committees Biden was in he would have been subject to a higher level of scrutiny due to the fear of him being blackmailed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 02:22:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 02:14:05 PM
Quote from: five points on April 28, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:12:44 PM
But were campaigns taking sexual harrassment and assault allegations as seriously back then before MeToo?

I can't imagine how not.  Ever since the farce of Gary Hart in 1987 (and Hart merely cheated on his wife) any hint of sexual misconduct has been a total no-no for any candidate ever since.

Any candidate? ;D

We've come a long way since Gary Hart, on a number of fronts.

On the one hand, we've a president with dozens of allegations against him, who boasted of groping women's genitals and who paid off a porn star for her silence on an affair he had with her while his wife was breastfeeding his infant son.

On the other, a major, all-powerful Hollywood producer and a legendary comedian are now in prison for more or less the rest of their lives for sexual assault.

Regardless, as whitey says, this is a difficult one for the Democrats, especially the women in the running for the VP slot.

But I think due to some of the Senate Committees Biden was in he would have been subject to a higher level of scrutiny due to the fear of him being blackmailed

"My heart says Bush but my Bush says Hart"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2020, 02:54:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:09:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2020, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:06:38 PM
Some serious chatter on the right wing news/blogs about Flynn.

Whether it's true or not it looks like there may be significant developments later this week

And I also see that Flynn just reactivated his twitter account after an absence is 3/4 years

If 1/3 of what's being said is true, it should chill every American to the bone

If he was actually framed by the FBI then well . . . that would be crazy shit!! We'll have to see what the new info is!

Will the right be joining Black Lives Matter in finally acknowledging that corruption and bias in law enforcement can actually be a thing??

I guess we'll have to wait and see if there is anything substantial to this. I glanced through a piece by Andew McCarthy in National Review and the jist appears to be that Flynn lied, but that he shouldn't have been questioned in the first place, and that they used a crime by his son as leverage, but it was a crime that is very rarely enforced.

It was a quick glance, so I may have missed something and stand open to correction.

J70-if it's true, then this was all part of a concerted effort to undermine the Trump Presidency from day 1, and add fuel to the whole Russia narrative. Once again (like during the FISA application process) it's alleged that the FBI knowingly withheld evidence that would either have completely exonerated Flynn or at the very least put his prosecution on very, very thin ice. And now there may actually be evidence that the FBI conspired with Flynn's defense team AGAINST him

??? Like I said, we'll see what happens.

For something with zero substance to it (even though the Senate found, again, just last week, that the Russians were actively trying to help Trump), a lot of covering up and obstructing and lying was apparently done in the aftermath.

If they had an open and shut case, why would they jeopardize the conviction by doing what they (allegedly) did?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on April 28, 2020, 03:09:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2020, 07:58:36 PM

In theory it is. In practice it's riddled with undemocratic weaknesses that are very difficult to fix. Examples:


  • The electoral collage that allows a man to become president with with 3.5 million fewer votes than his opponent
  • The disproportionate representation in the Senate that gives a resident of Wyoming 67 times the influence of a resident of California
  • The primitive winner-take-all voting system that is incapable of reflecting the actual wishes of the electorate
  • Blatant partisan gerrymandering that looks like something out of a Central African dictatorship
  • Voter suppression enabled by stacked conservative courts
  • Constitutional amendments have become well nigh impossible to deliver

I could go on. The idea that the US system is some sort of example to the world of fairness is just fantasy.

None of those issues have anything to do with constitutional checks and balances and the separation of powers as safeguards against tyranny, except perhaps the arguable point that the electoral college is another of those constitutional safeguards.  And nobody else mentioned any example of fairness.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2020, 03:46:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 02:54:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2020, 01:09:35 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2020, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2020, 12:06:38 PM
Some serious chatter on the right wing news/blogs about Flynn.

Whether it's true or not it looks like there may be significant developments later this week

And I also see that Flynn just reactivated his twitter account after an absence is 3/4 years

If 1/3 of what's being said is true, it should chill every American to the bone

If he was actually framed by the FBI then well . . . that would be crazy shit!! We'll have to see what the new info is!

Will the right be joining Black Lives Matter in finally acknowledging that corruption and bias in law enforcement can actually be a thing??

I guess we'll have to wait and see if there is anything substantial to this. I glanced through a piece by Andew McCarthy in National Review and the jist appears to be that Flynn lied, but that he shouldn't have been questioned in the first place, and that they used a crime by his son as leverage, but it was a crime that is very rarely enforced.

It was a quick glance, so I may have missed something and stand open to correction.

J70-if it's true, then this was all part of a concerted effort to undermine the Trump Presidency from day 1, and add fuel to the whole Russia narrative. Once again (like during the FISA application process) it's alleged that the FBI knowingly withheld evidence that would either have completely exonerated Flynn or at the very least put his prosecution on very, very thin ice. And now there may actually be evidence that the FBI conspired with Flynn's defense team AGAINST him

??? Like I said, we'll see what happens.

For something with zero substance to it (even though the Senate found, again, just last week, that the Russians were actively trying to help Trump), a lot of covering up and obstructing and lying was apparently done in the aftermath.

If they had an open and shut case, why would they jeopardize the conviction by doing what they (allegedly) did?

And if there was nothing to hide, why the lying and obstruction?

No clue, either way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 29, 2020, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

I don't know about CNN but here is the New York Times article about the rabbi's funeral that DiBlasio was talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/nyregion/hasidic-funeral-coronavirus-de-blasio.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

I don't know about CNN but here is the New York Times article about the rabbi's funeral that DiBlasio was talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/nyregion/hasidic-funeral-coronavirus-de-blasio.html
i don't agree with the people congregating like that for a funeral but my point is will he be called a nazi , fascist racist for singling out one community of people like they would with trump .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 29, 2020, 08:12:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

I don't know about CNN but here is the New York Times article about the rabbi's funeral that DiBlasio was talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/nyregion/hasidic-funeral-coronavirus-de-blasio.html
i don't agree with the people congregating like that for a funeral but my point is will he be called a nazi , fascist racist for singling out one community of people like they would with trump .

"My message to the Jewish community, and all communities, is this simple: the time for warnings has passed," Mr. de Blasio said in another post. "I have instructed the NYPD to proceed immediately to summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives. Period.""
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 08:12:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

I don't know about CNN but here is the New York Times article about the rabbi's funeral that DiBlasio was talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/nyregion/hasidic-funeral-coronavirus-de-blasio.html
i don't agree with the people congregating like that for a funeral but my point is will he be called a nazi , fascist racist for singling out one community of people like they would with trump .

"My message to the Jewish community, and all communities, is this simple: the time for warnings has passed," Mr. de Blasio said in another post. "I have instructed the NYPD to proceed immediately to summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives. Period.""
this is a later tweet he put out after first one which called out the Jewish community.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis. They were getting called out on this six weeks ago, to no avail. About time DeBlasio spoke up. The authorities were being accused before this of being afraid of criticizing them.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 29, 2020, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 08:12:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

I don't know about CNN but here is the New York Times article about the rabbi's funeral that DiBlasio was talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/nyregion/hasidic-funeral-coronavirus-de-blasio.html
i don't agree with the people congregating like that for a funeral but my point is will he be called a nazi , fascist racist for singling out one community of people like they would with trump .

"My message to the Jewish community, and all communities, is this simple: the time for warnings has passed," Mr. de Blasio said in another post. "I have instructed the NYPD to proceed immediately to summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives. Period.""
this is a later tweet he put out after first one which called out the Jewish community.

No it isn't, this is the tweet that people are complaining about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
[/quote the malaria drug has to be prescribed by a doctor so I don't know how many used it for treatment, hoping something doesn't work because trump said it might is sick .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 08:12:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

I don't know about CNN but here is the New York Times article about the rabbi's funeral that DiBlasio was talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/nyregion/hasidic-funeral-coronavirus-de-blasio.html
i don't agree with the people congregating like that for a funeral but my point is will he be called a nazi , fascist racist for singling out one community of people like they would with trump .

"My message to the Jewish community, and all communities, is this simple: the time for warnings has passed," Mr. de Blasio said in another post. "I have instructed the NYPD to proceed immediately to summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives. Period.""
this is a later tweet he put out after first one which called out the Jewish community.

No it isn't, this is the tweet that people are complaining about.
[/quote sorry missed that but it proves my point Jewish community
Would he say , black, Muslim, sheikh, Latino ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
the malaria drug has to be prescribed by a doctor so I don't know how many used it for treatment, hoping something doesn't work because trump said it might is sick .

Who was hoping it wouldn't work?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
the malaria drug has to be prescribed by a doctor so I don't know how many used it for treatment, hoping something doesn't work because trump said it might is sick .

Who was hoping it wouldn't work?
tds sufferers who didn't have the virus .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 29, 2020, 09:09:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
the malaria drug has to be prescribed by a doctor so I don't know how many used it for treatment, hoping something doesn't work because trump said it might is sick .

Who was hoping it wouldn't work?

No-one.

Trump lunatics think that liberals didn't want it to work. Though think is probably not the right word.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2020, 09:11:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
the malaria drug has to be prescribed by a doctor so I don't know how many used it for treatment, hoping something doesn't work because trump said it might is sick .

Who was hoping it wouldn't work?
tds sufferers who didn't have the virus .

Supposing for the sake argument that that was true (it sounds nothing short of idiotic to me), in what way does that excuse or negate the utterly irresponsible and reckless promotion of an untested treatment by the US President, backed by his propaganda wing at Fox News (some of whom are apparently still trying to save face by promoting it following the NIH's findings)?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2020, 09:13:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 08:12:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

I don't know about CNN but here is the New York Times article about the rabbi's funeral that DiBlasio was talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/nyregion/hasidic-funeral-coronavirus-de-blasio.html
i don't agree with the people congregating like that for a funeral but my point is will he be called a nazi , fascist racist for singling out one community of people like they would with trump .

"My message to the Jewish community, and all communities, is this simple: the time for warnings has passed," Mr. de Blasio said in another post. "I have instructed the NYPD to proceed immediately to summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives. Period.""
this is a later tweet he put out after first one which called out the Jewish community.

No it isn't, this is the tweet that people are complaining about.
sorry missed that but it proves my point Jewish community
Would he say , black, Muslim, sheikh, Latino ?

Your implication is obviously that he wouldn't.

Feel free to present your case.

I haven't seen or heard of large crowds of any of those groups repeatedly flouting the public health restrictions around New York like the Hasidic Jews were.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2020, 09:17:40 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 09:09:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
the malaria drug has to be prescribed by a doctor so I don't know how many used it for treatment, hoping something doesn't work because trump said it might is sick .

Who was hoping it wouldn't work?

No-one.

Trump lunatics think that liberals didn't want it to work. Though think is probably not the right word.

I'd relatives spreading bullshit memes like that on Facebook.

No response when called out on it.

A day or two later the NIH put out their findings on the cardiac side effects.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 09:17:40 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 09:09:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
the malaria drug has to be prescribed by a doctor so I don't know how many used it for treatment, hoping something doesn't work because trump said it might is sick .

Who was hoping it wouldn't work?

No-one.

Trump lunatics think that liberals didn't want it to work. Though think is probably not the right word.

I'd relatives spreading bullshit memes like that on Facebook.

No response when called out on it.

A day or two later the NIH put out their findings on the cardiac side effects.
its my opinion they would hardly express it out loud .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2020, 10:08:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 09:17:40 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 09:09:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
the malaria drug has to be prescribed by a doctor so I don't know how many used it for treatment, hoping something doesn't work because trump said it might is sick .

Who was hoping it wouldn't work?

No-one.

Trump lunatics think that liberals didn't want it to work. Though think is probably not the right word.

I'd relatives spreading bullshit memes like that on Facebook.

No response when called out on it.

A day or two later the NIH put out their findings on the cardiac side effects.
its my opinion they would hardly express it out loud .

Who?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 11:10:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 10:08:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 09:17:40 PM
Quote from: dec on April 29, 2020, 09:09:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2020, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Remember the couple in Arizona who drank the fish tank cleaner because it had chloroquine in it and took it because trump said take it ? Wife is under investigation for murder, wonder are cnn running with the new development.

Your implication is that it WAS responsible and sensible of Trump and Fox News to be endlessly hyping chloroquine as a wonder drug for COVID treatment?
de blasio singling out jews for not social distancing, Cuomo calling homeless sleeping on trains disgusting I'm sure they will show the same gusto in tackling these stories

The Hasidic community is suffering hugely from this outbreak, yet in Brooklyn and Rockland County they've been congregating in huge crowds for weddings and funerals all through this crisis.

And perhaps Cuomo could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to the homeless on the subway, but he is absolutely correct, especially now that train frequency is way down, forcing essential workers, including healthcare professionals, who have to travel to still huddle in the cars with sleeping and often mentally ill homeless people. The MTA, who operate the subways, have lost dozens of employees to COVID as well.

Back to my question - are you implying there was nothing wrong with the Trump/Fox News chloroquine campaign?
the malaria drug has to be prescribed by a doctor so I don't know how many used it for treatment, hoping something doesn't work because trump said it might is sick .

Who was hoping it wouldn't work?

No-one.

Trump lunatics think that liberals didn't want it to work. Though think is probably not the right word.

I'd relatives spreading bullshit memes like that on Facebook.

No response when called out on it.

A day or two later the NIH put out their findings on the cardiac side effects.
its my opinion they would hardly express it out loud .

Who?
yes definitely
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 30, 2020, 01:25:45 AM
I'll be shocked if Flynn doesnt walk after whats came out this evening

Some people in the FBI could be in serious trouble
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 30, 2020, 03:41:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 30, 2020, 01:25:45 AM
I'll be shocked if Flynn doesnt walk after whats came out this evening

Some people in the FBI could be in serious trouble
strzok and page were on this case too , that's all you need to know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 30, 2020, 03:57:39 AM
Read a few articles on this from CBS and FoxNews basically the interviewers had a strategy to try to catch Flynn out (which they did) and also didn't want to make a big issue of reminding him about statute 1001 (lying to a federal agent).

Am I missing something? I would have thought these were fairly standard things to do when investigating someone??

I'm open to the rights view of things but so far I'm not really convinced he still lied to Pence and to the Federal investigator didn't he? Oh and plead guilty!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 30, 2020, 05:54:50 AM
Time will tell, but at least according to the sources that are currently reporting on it, none of this was standard.

On top of that, legally the FBI were obliged to turn these notes and emails over to Flynn's  defense team but didn't

If everything they were doing was above board, why werent these documents handed over?

Why were they hidden.....sounds to me like this was and is so far off the reservation, that the case would have been laughed out of court had this information been known
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 30, 2020, 06:05:02 AM
Have you ever heard of RICO

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 30, 2020, 06:11:05 AM
Yes-but what relevance does that have to this case?

They either acted improperly or they didn't-I'm not an attorney so I don't know


What I do know is that documents were withheld and that is a serious violation of the defendants rights!


If this was above board, then why were these documents withheld ?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 30, 2020, 06:39:24 AM
I am an old man and I do not have the time to debate with someone who evangelized against Obamacare with anecdotes. I think that most rational Americans are now on the side of a healthcare system that would take care of most of us without having absolute authority who our doctor might be. If recollection serves me well you wanted to hang Obama on one statement "If you like your own doctor, you can keep your own doctor". He was almost right but not right enough for you. You're anecdotal diatribe was all about the lads in wherever your are selling whatever you are selling who had to pay ridiculously more in insurance health insurance premiums because of Obamacare. The reality was that they really had
no health insurance and were paying accordingly. Obamacare brought real insurance to them and they are now quiet.
Trumps crowd are all a bunch of crooks whom you appear to be prepared to cut slack for. I am not and if you have to use RICO to get them to obey the law... so be it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 30, 2020, 07:08:05 AM
Quote from: omochain on April 30, 2020, 06:39:24 AM
I am an old man and I do not have the time to debate with someone who evangelized against Obamacare with anecdotes. I think that most rational Americans are now on the side of a healthcare system that would take care of most of us without having absolute authority who our doctor might be. If recollection serves me well you wanted to hang Obama on one statement "If you like your own doctor, you can keep your own doctor". He was almost right but not right enough for you. You're anecdotal diatribe was all about the lads in wherever your are selling whatever you are selling who had to pay ridiculously more in insurance health insurance premiums because of Obamacare. The reality was that they really had
no health insurance and were paying accordingly. Obamacare brought real insurance to them and they are now quiet.
Trumps crowd are all a bunch of crooks whom you appear to be prepared to cut slack for. I am not and if you have to use RICO to get them to obey the law... so be it.

Believe what you want.....Flynn will walk.

Regarding Obamacare, the architect of the whole scheme, professor Gurber said they had to write the law in such an "intentionally tortured" way, because if people actually knew what was in it theyd never go for it.....his words not mine.  I was just cynical enough at the time not to believe anything they were peddling.

My clients are all self employed and yes, almost every single one of them saw enormous increases in the cost of their health plans

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/14/674791999/health-costs-bear-down-on-families-who-dont-qualify-for-aca-subsidies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on April 30, 2020, 07:52:10 AM
i am going to bed now on the beautiful west central coast of America. I will try to sleep well and ignore your almost non sequitur response.  I hope you sleep well too. Try to concentrate a little more on the real problem. The total and complete lack of rational government that we have in the US at this critical time. I am all ears on any suggestions you might have to help us through this pandemic. Flynn's fatuous fixations on Turkey, Russia and lining his pocket are completely incidental.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2020, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 30, 2020, 03:57:39 AM
Read a few articles on this from CBS and FoxNews basically the interviewers had a strategy to try to catch Flynn out (which they did) and also didn't want to make a big issue of reminding him about statute 1001 (lying to a federal agent).

Am I missing something? I would have thought these were fairly standard things to do when investigating someone??

I'm open to the rights view of things but so far I'm not really convinced he still lied to Pence and to the Federal investigator didn't he? Oh and plead guilty!

Yes, I'm also having trouble reconciling whitey's enthusiasm and energy to what is being reported.

I work with an ex-NYPD detective and he's full of stories and strategies he used to use to tease evidence and confessions out of suspects. Earnest honesty and transparency is not one of them.

Proof will be in the pudding I guess. Wouldn't be the first time someone walked on a technicality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 30, 2020, 05:19:04 PM
It all goes back to Michael Lewis's book and the clown show that is the Trump administration

Comey admitted to Nicole Wallace that he would never have tried a stunt like this under a previous administration.  And a stunt is what it was.

No crime had been committed up until that point- (believe it or not)

Normal procedure is that the FBI provide the interviewee of a transcript of the call they were there to discuss-they didn't and they intentionally made a decision not to

And then they failed to turn over these documents which Flynn was legally entitled to
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Seems like Trump's lash-out-at-the-media-and-shoot-the-messenger strategy is paying off.

But if Biden does get in somehow, I could see him serving one term and then someone like Newsom having a go.

I wouldn't write Biden off yet. It's a long way to November and a lot of dead bodies are going to be piled up between now and then thanks to Donald. A lot will depend on how successful he is in shifting blame away from himself. He'll take credit for anything that goes right and deflect blame for anything that goes wrong, which will play well with the religious crowd who are used to doing that sort of thing with God. I don't know if it'll be enough with swing voters though.
Well well well. Trump starting to get it tight again. Maybe his supporters are dropping dead with the virus.

2020 winner:
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on April 30, 2020, 10:32:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Seems like Trump's lash-out-at-the-media-and-shoot-the-messenger strategy is paying off.

But if Biden does get in somehow, I could see him serving one term and then someone like Newsom having a go.

I wouldn't write Biden off yet. It's a long way to November and a lot of dead bodies are going to be piled up between now and then thanks to Donald. A lot will depend on how successful he is in shifting blame away from himself. He'll take credit for anything that goes right and deflect blame for anything that goes wrong, which will play well with the religious crowd who are used to doing that sort of thing with God. I don't know if it'll be enough with swing voters though.
Well well well. Trump starting to get it tight again. Maybe his supporters are dropping dead with the virus.

2020 winner:
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Biden will be well f**ked then if he wont even be voting for himself. At least he should get Trump's vote tho.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on April 30, 2020, 10:34:12 PM
Pence thinks Flynn maybe lied unintentionally now . . . you couldn't make this shit up!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on May 01, 2020, 10:22:31 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 30, 2020, 10:34:12 PM
Pence thinks Flynn maybe lied unintentionally now . . . you couldn't make this shit up!!

Now that didn't happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 01, 2020, 11:03:05 PM
Big move by Joe

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EW9otxGXkAc_Als?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 01, 2020, 11:30:42 PM
He has to do it, it's the kind of move you make if you're not guilty,to do otherwise would only bring more suspicion!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2020, 11:55:24 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 01, 2020, 11:03:05 PM
Big move by Joe

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EW9otxGXkAc_Als?format=jpg&name=small)

He got well grilled by Mika this morning by all accounts

Personally I think it's BS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on May 02, 2020, 12:01:40 AM
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.204569/gov.uscourts.dcd.204569.29.7.pdf

Interesting reading. Lots of redactions of course, including what appears to be the identities of people high up in the Israeli government or close to it who appear to have intervened on Trumps behalf to deal with a potential October surprise. Refer to page 5, 12 to 16. This redacted individual even wrangled for a meeting with then candidate Trump. I wonder what Trump had to do in return for such help.

Foreign interference I believe it's called.

Now going by this document alone, the evidence of direct contact between any Russian government officials or agents and Stone, Assange or Corsi, or Trump seems absent, with only conjecture from FBI and US Intelligence that it seems likely to be going on. No surprise the Russia Today would be happy to put Assange on their broadcasts since Hillary had been directly threatening Russia during her time in government and in her election campaigns. This doesn't mean Russia were not doing more to influence the election, but from that document, the evidence suggests interference was coming from somewhere else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 07, 2020, 07:51:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2020, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 30, 2020, 03:57:39 AM
Read a few articles on this from CBS and FoxNews basically the interviewers had a strategy to try to catch Flynn out (which they did) and also didn't want to make a big issue of reminding him about statute 1001 (lying to a federal agent).

Am I missing something? I would have thought these were fairly standard things to do when investigating someone??

I'm open to the rights view of things but so far I'm not really convinced he still lied to Pence and to the Federal investigator didn't he? Oh and plead guilty!

Yes, I'm also having trouble reconciling whitey's enthusiasm and energy to what is being reported.

I work with an ex-NYPD detective and he's full of stories and strategies he used to use to tease evidence and confessions out of suspects. Earnest honesty and transparency is not one of them.

Proof will be in the pudding I guess. Wouldn't be the first time someone walked on a technicality.


Told you the case would be dropped

https://apnews.com/ae1ad252bb13490db2ceffc5d17b6d92?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 07, 2020, 08:03:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 07, 2020, 07:51:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2020, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 30, 2020, 03:57:39 AM
Read a few articles on this from CBS and FoxNews basically the interviewers had a strategy to try to catch Flynn out (which they did) and also didn't want to make a big issue of reminding him about statute 1001 (lying to a federal agent).

Am I missing something? I would have thought these were fairly standard things to do when investigating someone??

I'm open to the rights view of things but so far I'm not really convinced he still lied to Pence and to the Federal investigator didn't he? Oh and plead guilty!

Yes, I'm also having trouble reconciling whitey's enthusiasm and energy to what is being reported.

I work with an ex-NYPD detective and he's full of stories and strategies he used to use to tease evidence and confessions out of suspects. Earnest honesty and transparency is not one of them.

Proof will be in the pudding I guess. Wouldn't be the first time someone walked on a technicality.


Told you the case would be dropped

https://apnews.com/ae1ad252bb13490db2ceffc5d17b6d92?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP

Good for him I guess.

And for the rest of us, I guess, as we all now know you're apparently not supposed to lie in an interview with law enforcement. ::)  ;D

And let's hope the conservative new-found demand for fair play from the justice system extends to the poor, minorities and immigrants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 07, 2020, 08:11:40 PM
The Supreme Court has thrown out the Bridgegate convictions

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/07/supreme-court-bridgegate-decision-242344

"The U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday tossed the federal government's case in the infamous "Bridgegate" scandal, clearing the convictions of two allies of former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie.
In a unanimous ruling that further chips away at the nation's public corruption case law, the justices concluded that the two defendants — Bridget Ann Kelly and Bill Baroni — did not defraud the government of its "property" by closing off two local access lanes to the George Washington Bridge over three days in September 2013.

The traffic-snarling political stunt was designed to punish a Democratic mayor who had refused to endorse Christie, a Republican, for reelection as New Jersey governor.

Justice Elena Kagan said the kinds of decisions Kelly and Baroni made — and their less-than-candid explanations for them — could not be prosecuted as fraud under federal law.

"If U. S. Attorneys could prosecute as property fraud every lie a state or local official tells in making such a decision, the result would be ... 'a sweeping expansion of federal criminal jurisdiction,'" Kagan wrote. "In effect, the Federal Government could use the criminal law to enforce (its view of) integrity in broad swaths of state and local policymaking. The property fraud statutes do not countenance that outcome."
Kagan sought to make clear that the court was not blessing the conduct of the former officials, only declaring that it was beyond the reach of federal corruption laws.

"As Kelly's own lawyer acknowledged, this case involves an 'abuse of power,' she wrote. "The evidence the jury heard no doubt shows wrongdoing—deception, corruption, abuse of power. But the federal fraud statutes at issue do not criminalize all such conduct."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 07, 2020, 08:14:21 PM
J70-this was an attempted coup....plain and simple

Puts Watergate in the Hapenny place

FBIs credibility destroyed

Strok, Page and company should face serious jail time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 07, 2020, 08:26:11 PM
Corrupt Trump DOJ drops case against corrupt Trump National Security Advisor shocker.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 07, 2020, 08:30:08 PM
Quote from: dec on May 07, 2020, 08:26:11 PM
Corrupt Trump DOJ drops case against corrupt Trump National Security Advisor shocker.

I'm a "never Trumper"

The facts of this case should chill every American to the bone
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 07, 2020, 08:31:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 07, 2020, 08:14:21 PM
J70-this was an attempted coup....plain and simple

Puts Watergate in the Hapenny place

FBIs credibility destroyed

Strok, Page and company should face serious jail time

Attempted coup. Way worse than Watergate. Did Flynn not do his naive, innocent, lying way AFTER the election?

For nothing going on, there's sure been a whole lot of lying, obstruction, changing of stories and covering up going on over the past few years.

And don't worry, I'm sure Barr will see to it that you and Trump get your pound of flesh.

But like I said, if the conservatives now hate the FBI, maybe they'll at least concede that non-federal police forces often behave less than honourably and that the likes of Black Lives Matter didn't spring up for no reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 07, 2020, 08:36:37 PM
Quote from: dec on May 07, 2020, 08:11:40 PM
The Supreme Court has thrown out the Bridgegate convictions

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/07/supreme-court-bridgegate-decision-242344

"The U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday tossed the federal government's case in the infamous "Bridgegate" scandal, clearing the convictions of two allies of former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie.
In a unanimous ruling that further chips away at the nation's public corruption case law, the justices concluded that the two defendants — Bridget Ann Kelly and Bill Baroni — did not defraud the government of its "property" by closing off two local access lanes to the George Washington Bridge over three days in September 2013.

The traffic-snarling political stunt was designed to punish a Democratic mayor who had refused to endorse Christie, a Republican, for reelection as New Jersey governor.

Justice Elena Kagan said the kinds of decisions Kelly and Baroni made — and their less-than-candid explanations for them — could not be prosecuted as fraud under federal law.

"If U. S. Attorneys could prosecute as property fraud every lie a state or local official tells in making such a decision, the result would be ... 'a sweeping expansion of federal criminal jurisdiction,'" Kagan wrote. "In effect, the Federal Government could use the criminal law to enforce (its view of) integrity in broad swaths of state and local policymaking. The property fraud statutes do not countenance that outcome."
Kagan sought to make clear that the court was not blessing the conduct of the former officials, only declaring that it was beyond the reach of federal corruption laws.

"As Kelly's own lawyer acknowledged, this case involves an 'abuse of power,' she wrote. "The evidence the jury heard no doubt shows wrongdoing—deception, corruption, abuse of power. But the federal fraud statutes at issue do not criminalize all such conduct."

I've forgotten.

Were Christie's minions prosecuted under his justice department in NJ?

Or is it in fact now ok and legal to do what they did as petty political payback for their bully of a boss?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 07, 2020, 08:39:01 PM
My best guess is that Flynn has some questionable actions in his past (maybe not illegal but definitely displaying poor judgement)

FBI got him on a technicality and threatened with turning his and his families lives upside down if he didn't plead guilty to a lesser charge and get a suspended sentence (goal was to make Trump look bad and continue the Russian BS narrative)

Judge Sullivan must not have read the script and screwed the whole thing up not not accepting Flynn's plea
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 07, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Hopefully peter strzok and lisa page have some justice coming their way soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on May 07, 2020, 10:49:12 PM
It is widely reported that almost one quarter of children in the US do not have enough to eat. Now this seems rather dramatic as you could eat healthily on a modest enough budget, but it also shows a country in a mess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 07, 2020, 11:52:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2020, 10:49:12 PM
It is widely reported that almost one quarter of children in the US do not have enough to eat. Now this seems rather dramatic as you could eat healthily on a modest enough budget, but it also shows a country in a mess.
country or parents/families
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 08, 2020, 04:59:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 07, 2020, 11:52:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2020, 10:49:12 PM
It is widely reported that almost one quarter of children in the US do not have enough to eat. Now this seems rather dramatic as you could eat healthily on a modest enough budget, but it also shows a country in a mess.
country or parents/families
What is a country?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on May 08, 2020, 01:13:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2020, 10:49:12 PM
It is widely reported that almost one quarter of children in the US do not have enough to eat. Now this seems rather dramatic as you could eat healthily on a modest enough budget, but it also shows a country in a mess.

Now do Europe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers

The attempt at vote suppression in the recent Wisconsin election didn't work too well for them either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 08, 2020, 08:44:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers
It ain't stopping the Trump syndicate from trying to step on the scales... Just look at whom they put in charge of the Post Office.

The attempt at vote suppression in the recent Wisconsin election didn't work too well for them either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 08, 2020, 09:31:36 PM
Voter suppression is about as real as voter fraud

Ie it's a bunch of codswallop
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 08, 2020, 09:41:55 PM
Is gerrymandering real?

(https://i.postimg.cc/52xxnW5c/qo1c2vtmu8s21.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 08, 2020, 09:54:44 PM
Yes-and Both Democrats and Republicans do it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:24:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers

The attempt at vote suppression in the recent Wisconsin election didn't work too well for them either.
If you think an election for a judge in Wisconsin is going to be a pointer for how effective the Republicans' voter suppression, propaganda and election fixing efforts will be in the presidential election, with the help of their Russian friends of course, you have another thing coming.

Sure look at how Trump is running the US postal service into the ground to prevent vote by mail.

This will be the dirtiest election of all time, it'll make 2016 look like a picnic. Republicans have every intention of pulling a Putin on this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 08, 2020, 10:36:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 08, 2020, 09:54:44 PM
Yes-and Both Democrats and Republicans do it

I expect there's plenty of conservative support out there for independent commissions to draw up up fair districts then?

That soon we won't be seeing the GOP controlling state houses and Congressional representation when they're significantly outvoted?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 08, 2020, 10:37:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:24:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers

The attempt at vote suppression in the recent Wisconsin election didn't work too well for them either.
If you think an election for a judge in Wisconsin is going to be a pointer for how effective the Republicans' voter suppression, propaganda and election fixing efforts will be in the presidential election, with the help of their Russian friends of course, you have another thing coming.

Sure look at how Trump is running the US postal service into the ground to prevent vote by mail.

This will be the dirtiest election of all time, it'll make 2016 look like a picnic. Republicans have every intention of pulling a Putin on this.

In all fairness I think it would be hard to top the "dirty dossier"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 08, 2020, 10:44:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 10:36:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 08, 2020, 09:54:44 PM
Yes-and Both Democrats and Republicans do it

I expect there's plenty of conservative support out there for independent commissions to draw up up fair districts then?

That soon we won't be seeing the GOP controlling state houses and Congressional representation when they're significantly outvoted?

What about Democrats encouraging illegals to move to their states by offering them welfare, thereby increasing their representation in Congress? Get off your high horse....both patties are a fvckin disgrace
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 08, 2020, 10:51:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 08, 2020, 10:44:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 10:36:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 08, 2020, 09:54:44 PM
Yes-and Both Democrats and Republicans do it

I expect there's plenty of conservative support out there for independent commissions to draw up up fair districts then?

That soon we won't be seeing the GOP controlling state houses and Congressional representation when they're significantly outvoted?

What about Democrats encouraging illegals to move to their states by offering them welfare, thereby increasing their representation in Congress? Get off your high horse....both patties are a fvckin disgrace

1. You'll have to provide some evidence that Democrats are trying to swell their populations by offering welfare so they can increase their states congressional representation.

2. Do you not agree that congressional districts should be drawn up by independent, non-partisan bodies?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 08, 2020, 11:00:13 PM
Whitey: Here ya go again ...... False equivalency and the racist dog whistling. Do me a favor and read this article. It may help you identify who Trump's base are and redirect your constant outrage at the Dems.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-american-civil-war-didnt-end-and-trump-is-a-confederate-president
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 11:24:05 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 08, 2020, 11:00:13 PM
Whitey: Here ya go again ...... False equivalency and the racist dog whistling. Do me a favor and read this article. It may help you identify who Trump's base are and redirect your constant outrage at the Dems.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-american-civil-war-didnt-end-and-trump-is-a-confederate-president
Look it, anybody who hasn't recognised by this stage that Trump and the Republicans are white supremacists to their core is away with the fairies. And it was obvious right from the start.

What Trump said about Obama last night, when he called him human scum, is straight out of Nazi Germany. That's genuinely where right-wing America is now.

That eejit you're replying to is living on Earth 2, as Maddow correctly pointed out about the right-wing media in the US a few weeks back. You'd get more sense out of a duck, and less quackery.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 08, 2020, 11:39:34 PM
Democrats Good/Republicans Bad

That seems to be the extent of the mental capacity of some people on here

The Democrats are a big a bunch of fvckin scumbags as the Republicans

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 08, 2020, 11:57:21 PM
Hiding behind the false equivalency again .. Whitey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 12:07:03 AM
False equivalence is the tool of the right wing nutcase everywhere, from Russia to Britain to Brazil and and of course the US. There literally isn't a Trump supporting troll on the internet who doesn't use it as their go to tactic.

Publc discourse has entered into a very, very dark era indeed. There are a lot of people who have chosen to live in an alternate universe, who have dispensed entirely with the concept of truth, and who literally only believe what they want to believe. When that happens, kleptcracy and fascism wins. Trump style fascism is the logical outcome of that.

And his "Death Star" is only getting going. It will create an even more nightmarish, Goebbels/Russian style propaganda environment than we're already experiencing. This sort of propaganda environment is an existential threat to democracy and to free society throughout the world, and indeed to the planet itself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 09, 2020, 12:25:01 AM
So what do you think of what happened with Flynn and the lawbreaking by the FBI?

What do you think of the FISA abuse and the 17 "errors"? (Which included perjury and forgery)

What do you think of one campaign feeding a bogus "dossier" to corrupt FBI agents to launch an investigation into a rival campaign?

If you aren't completely outraged, you are living in an alternate universe on a parallel with any you accuse others of living in!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 09, 2020, 12:54:35 AM
what about
what about
what about




what about the king of the what abouts?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 01:09:57 AM
I haven't heard as many what abouts since Earthsong by Michael Jackson.

In the Trumpbot's case it should be Earth 2 Song.

Michael Flynn was doing Russia's bidding inside the White House, flagrantly lied to the FBI about it, and was a bounty hunter for Erdogan who wanted the US based cleric Gulen kidnapped and brought to Turkey to be executed.

Flynn is a traitor to the US and a serious danger to society, like all of the Trump regime.

William Barr is Trump's equivalent of Carl Schmitt. Schmitt was the legal expert who enabled Nazi criminality by driving a coach and fifty horses through the rule of law. Trump brought Barr in to do exactly that.

The Trump regime is a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a government.

Trump has been involved with the Russian mafia since the 1980s and the Republican party is now effectively a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kremlin and its mafia.

That's what actually happening on the real planet Earth - but not on the make believe one on which a couple of prize morons here live.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 09, 2020, 01:42:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 01:09:57 AM
I haven't heard as many what abouts since Earthsong by Michael Jackson.

In the Trumpbot's case it should be Earth 2 Song.

Michael Flynn was doing Russia's bidding inside the White House, flagrantly lied to the FBI about it, and was a bounty hunter for Erdogan who wanted the US based cleric Gulen kidnapped and brought to Turkey to be executed.

Flynn is a traitor to the US and a serious danger to society, like all of the Trump regime.

William Barr is Trump's equivalent of Carl Schmitt. Schmitt was the legal expert who enabled Nazi criminality by driving a coach and fifty horses through the rule of law. Trump brought Barr in to do exactly that.

The Trump regime is a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a government.

Trump has been involved with the Russian mafia since the 1980s and the Republican party is now effectively a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kremlin and its mafia.

That's what actually happening on the real planet Earth - but not on the make believe one on which a couple of prize morons here live.

Where did you come up with all that-CNN?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 09, 2020, 01:59:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 09, 2020, 12:25:01 AM
So what do you think of what happened with Flynn and the lawbreaking by the FBI?

What do you think of the FISA abuse and the 17 "errors"? (Which included perjury and forgery)

What do you think of one campaign feeding a bogus "dossier" to corrupt FBI agents to launch an investigation into a rival campaign?

If you aren't completely outraged, you are living in an alternate universe on a parallel with any you accuse others of living in!

Whitey. Flynn was operating as an agent for a foreign government during the transition and after.. he lied about it and pleaded guilty to lying. Jeeezzz for once can you lift your head out of trees and see the wood.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 09, 2020, 02:17:13 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 09, 2020, 01:59:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 09, 2020, 12:25:01 AM
So what do you think of what happened with Flynn and the lawbreaking by the FBI?

What do you think of the FISA abuse and the 17 "errors"? (Which included perjury and forgery)

What do you think of one campaign feeding a bogus "dossier" to corrupt FBI agents to launch an investigation into a rival campaign?

If you aren't completely outraged, you are living in an alternate universe on a parallel with any you accuse others of living in!

Whitey. Flynn was operating as an agent for a foreign government during the transition and after.. he lied about it and pleaded guilty to lying. Jeeezzz for once can you lift your head out of trees and see the wood.

So why did Page and Strzok alter the 302 if they had an open and shut case?

Why were the emails and texts between Strzok and Page surrounding the setting up of the interview concealed from Flynn's originals defense team, when by law the FBI Agents involved were obligated to hand them all over?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/rewrite-in-flynns-case-shows-fbi-needs-reform-11588541993


.
U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Jensen found much wrong with the Federal Bureau of Investigation's investigation of Mike Flynn. An aspect that deserves more attention than it has received is the alteration of an FBI agent's account of the Flynn interview.

For more than half a century, FBI agents conducting interviews have been required to memorialize any information that might become testimony, on a form called the FD-302

It was always considered the interviewing agent's FD-302. Supervisors never modified it; its purpose was to reflect what the agent observed and heard from the witness or suspect. As an FBI supervisor, I reviewed hundreds of FD-302s. Other than an occasional grammatical correction, I never changed a word.

So it was shocking for me to read the newly released text messages between Peter Strzok, then deputy assistant director of the FBI's Counterintelligence Division, and Lisa Page. They show that after Mr. Strzok and Agent Joe Pientka interviewed Mr. Flynn, Mr. Strzok heavily edite

Mr. Pientka's FD-302—to the point that he told Ms. Page he was "trying not to completely re-write" it. Even more shocking, Ms. Page, an FBI attorney who wasn't an agent and wasn't at the interview, provided edits.

Worse still, the FD-302 that was eventually provided to the court wasn't that of the agents' interview of Mr. Flynn. It was instead a FD-302 of an interview of Mr. Strzok, conducted months later, about his recollections of the original interview. Truly bizarre.

The FBI was also aggressive in its use—or abuse—of Title 18, Section 1001, which makes it a crime to lie to an agent.

Agents sometimes issue warnings about this violation to encourage witnesses to tell the truth. But in the past lying was seldom prosecuted as a stand-alone crime. Over the decades, many frustrated agents have pounded a prosecutor's desk after being told this wouldn't be prosecuted because "everybody lies." Instead prosecutors treated it as an add-on offense when they'd already have nailed down a substantive underlying crime. In the Flynn case it was a perversion. Rather than using the 1001 warning to get to the truth, agents set a trap for a lie to manufacture a violation. That would be unimaginable in my time at the FBI.

Many are calling for indictments of past bureau officials and others who engaged in this treatment of Mr. Flynn. That may be warranted. But more fundamental is the need for cultural reform in the FBI. The guardrails that were respected in the past—including the integrity of an agent's FD-302 and the appropriate use of 1001—need to be restored.

Attorney General William Barr ordered this inquiry by Mr. Jensen, a 10-year FBI veteran who operated within those guardrails. Mr. Barr, who served as attorney general in the early 1990s, knows what the FBI had been and can be again.

Mr. Baker is a retired FBI special agent and legal attaché.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 09, 2020, 02:38:48 AM



James A. Gagliano (@JamesAGagliano) worked in the FBI for 25 years. He is a law enforcement analyst for CNN and an adjunct assistant professor in homeland security and criminal justice at St. John's University. Gagliano is a member of the board of directors of the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/michael-flynn-was-railroaded-by-james-comeys-fbi?utm_source=breaking_push&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=push_notifications&utm_source=WEX_News%20Brief_05/04/2020&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WEX_News%20Brief&
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 09, 2020, 03:03:43 AM
Whitey ... I thought you were salvageable... I give up... I will now go into hibernation for another while. But the lad from Queens County might cause me to wake up again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 09, 2020, 04:18:12 AM
Flynn was a Russian agent, Whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 09, 2020, 05:27:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 11:24:05 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 08, 2020, 11:00:13 PM
Whitey: Here ya go again ...... False equivalency and the racist dog whistling. Do me a favor and read this article. It may help you identify who Trump's base are and redirect your constant outrage at the Dems.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-american-civil-war-didnt-end-and-trump-is-a-confederate-president
Look it, anybody who hasn't recognised by this stage that Trump and the Republicans are white supremacists to their core is away with the fairies. And it was obvious right from the start.

What Trump said about Obama last night, when he called him human scum, is straight out of Nazi Germany. That's genuinely where right-wing America is now.

That eejit you're replying to is living on Earth 2, as Maddow correctly pointed out about the right-wing media in the US a few weeks back. You'd get more sense out of a duck, and less quackery.
trump called fbi investigators who set Flynn up scum not Obama, why lie about it ?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 09, 2020, 06:06:37 AM
The west's awake... jeeezzzz that hibernation didn't last long... the queen's county will never let you down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 10:45:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 09, 2020, 04:18:12 AM
Flynn was a Russian agent, Whitey.
Why the past tense?

Don't forget Turkish agent, Trump's goons don't tend to work for just a single dictator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 11, 2020, 10:18:05 PM
I see the deplorables getting stuck into this #obamagate nonsense.

I'm not quite sure what this is?? Do they actually think Obama was directing a surveillance operator against Trump from the Oval to try and interfere with the election?

If he did he totally screwed it up!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 11, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
Oh god Trump actually talked about it in his press conference which was especially bizarre today!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 11, 2020, 11:06:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 11, 2020, 10:18:05 PM
I see the deplorables getting stuck into this #obamagate nonsense.

I'm not quite sure what this is?? Do they actually think Obama was directing a surveillance operator against Trump from the Oval to try and interfere with the election?

If he did he totally screwed it up!!

LOL-that's exactly what's been claimed and with good cause.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 11, 2020, 11:12:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 11, 2020, 10:18:05 PM
I see the deplorables getting stuck into this #obamagate nonsense.

I'm not quite sure what this is?? Do they actually think Obama was directing a surveillance operator against Trump from the Oval to try and interfere with the election?

If he did he totally screwed it up!!
Dictators and wannabe dictators love nothing more than show trials of their enemies.

In Trump's case, he'd love nothing more than a show trial of a man who is 1,000,000 times the man he is, carried out in the name of white supremacism.

The playbook of Trump is easy to follow. He just follows the playbooks of Hitler and Stalin.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 11, 2020, 11:12:16 PM
What cause??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 11, 2020, 11:13:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 11, 2020, 11:12:16 PM
What cause??
Being a black president.

Oh, and to cover up the fact Trump himself has handled Coronavirus worse than any other world leader, resulting in a holocaust of Americans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 11, 2020, 11:19:28 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 11, 2020, 11:12:16 PM
What cause??

Strzoks reference to the 7th Floor intervention in keeping the case open when the agents found no evidence of Flynn colluding with Russians (and recommended  shutting the investigation)

(Officials from the 7th Floor had attended a meeting at the White House a day or 2 before)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 12:25:28 AM
Strzok saying "this is coming from the seventh floor" is evidence that Obama directed it from the Oval??

That's extremely tenuous even for the whackjobs to make that leap.

Is it possible the 7th floor knew about the Russian call when the agents below didn't?? Just as viable a theory as Obamagate!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 12:37:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 12:25:28 AM
Strzok saying "this is coming from the seventh floor" is evidence that Obama directed it from the Oval??

That's extremely tenuous even for the whackjobs to make that leap.

Is it possible the 7th floor knew about the Russian call when the agents below didn't?? Just as viable a theory as Obamagate!


Major $hitstorm coming for Obama

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/acting-dni-seeks-declassify-obama-officials-involved-flynn/story?id=70624372&cid=social_twitter_abcnp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 12:48:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 12, 2020, 12:37:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 12:25:28 AM
Strzok saying "this is coming from the seventh floor" is evidence that Obama directed it from the Oval??

That's extremely tenuous even for the whackjobs to make that leap.

Is it possible the 7th floor knew about the Russian call when the agents below didn't?? Just as viable a theory as Obamagate!


Major $hitstorm coming for Obama

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/acting-dni-seeks-declassify-obama-officials-involved-flynn/story?id=70624372&cid=social_twitter_abcnp

I read that and it's all he said/she said bullshit very little in the way of facts... undisputed though is that Flynn spoke with the Russian and then lied about it to the FBI and the VP!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 12:51:24 AM
Okay.....believe what you want

Clapper perjured himself before Congress

Whoever leaked to the WaPo faces 10 years in jail

This Durham guy supposedly will make Mueller like like an 8 year old girls scout
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 01:09:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 12:48:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 12, 2020, 12:37:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 12:25:28 AM
Strzok saying "this is coming from the seventh floor" is evidence that Obama directed it from the Oval??

That's extremely tenuous even for the whackjobs to make that leap.

Is it possible the 7th floor knew about the Russian call when the agents below didn't?? Just as viable a theory as Obamagate!


Major $hitstorm coming for Obama

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/acting-dni-seeks-declassify-obama-officials-involved-flynn/story?id=70624372&cid=social_twitter_abcnp

I read that and it's all he said/she said bullshit very little in the way of facts... undisputed though is that Flynn spoke with the Russian and then lied about it to the FBI and the VP!!

Here are the facts

It wasn't illegal for Flynn to speak with the Russians. It happens during every transition

Flynn knew they had the transcript-he joked with McCabe about it when McCabe called him to set up the meeting

The original 302 is missing-the 302 that was submitted was written by Strzok and Page which is highly irregular, so irregular in fact that in text messages they conspired how to rewrite it so it looked like the work of the original note taker

The notes/emails/texts surrounding the "planning" of the meeting and the "discussion" of the 302 were all, by law, supposed to be handed over to Flynn's lawyers, but we're CONCEALED?   

Have you asked yourself why?

Anyway, I think this Judge Sullivan is a pretty straight shooter, so I will go with whatever his take in everything is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 01:43:18 AM
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/11/senate-republicans-trump-obamagate-249734

Sounds like Obama will be alright... even the vultures don't want to go after him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 02:16:55 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 01:43:18 AM
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/11/senate-republicans-trump-obamagate-249734

Sounds like Obama will be alright... even the vultures don't want to go after him!

It's Durham he needs to be worried about .....not the Senate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2020, 03:57:04 AM
Every swiftboat stunt in the book is gonna be employed in the next few months to deflect attention away from Trump's genocide against the American people. They've come up with this "Obamagate" BS and Fox will run with it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, all the way to November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 12, 2020, 10:20:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2020, 03:57:04 AM
Every swiftboat stunt in the book is gonna be employed in the next few months to deflect attention away from Trump's genocide against the American people. They've come up with this "Obamagate" BS and Fox will run with it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, all the way to November.
There's a reason Trump kept Mein Kampf beside his bed. And it wasn't historical curiosity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 11:30:11 AM
From Lara Logan



Lara Logan
@laralogan
At a moment like this, it is unfortunate that we cannot rely on media organizations and journalists to take an honest look at the evidence - and do the right thing. No one has to take anyone's word anymore - all you have to do is read the notes, documents, reports & transcripts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 12, 2020, 03:12:07 PM
should we know who that is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 12, 2020, 03:14:58 PM
Trump gave a very clear explanation of Obamagate

"Rucker: In one of your Mother's Day tweets, you appeared to accuse President Obama of "the biggest political crime in American history, by far" — those were your words. What crime exactly are you accusing President Obama of committing, and do you believe the Justice Department should prosecute him?

Trump: Obamagate. It's been going on for a long time. It's been going on from before I even got elected, and it's a disgrace that it happened, and if you look at what's gone on, and if you look at now, all this information that's being released — and from what I understand, that's only the beginning — some terrible things happened, and it should never be allowed to happen in our country again. And you'll be seeing what's going on over the next, over the coming weeks but I, and I wish you'd write honestly about it but unfortunately you choose not to do so.

Rucker: What is the crime, exactly, that you're accusing him of?

Trump: You know what the crime is. The crime is very obvious to everybody. All you have to do is read the newspapers, except yours."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Orior on May 12, 2020, 03:54:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 12, 2020, 03:14:58 PM
Trump gave a very clear explanation of Obamagate

"Rucker: In one of your Mother's Day tweets, you appeared to accuse President Obama of "the biggest political crime in American history, by far" — those were your words. What crime exactly are you accusing President Obama of committing, and do you believe the Justice Department should prosecute him?

Trump: Obamagate. It's been going on for a long time. It's been going on from before I even got elected, and it's a disgrace that it happened, and if you look at what's gone on, and if you look at now, all this information that's being released — and from what I understand, that's only the beginning — some terrible things happened, and it should never be allowed to happen in our country again. And you'll be seeing what's going on over the next, over the coming weeks but I, and I wish you'd write honestly about it but unfortunately you choose not to do so.

Rucker: What is the crime, exactly, that you're accusing him of?

Trump: You know what the crime is. The crime is very obvious to everybody. All you have to do is read the newspapers, except yours."

If Trump was on GAA Board then he would be telling you to leave, lol.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 12, 2020, 03:12:07 PM
should we know who that is?

The former CBS reporter who was viciously gang  raped and assaulted by a mob in Cairo during the "Arab Spring" demonstrations

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 12, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 12, 2020, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 12, 2020, 03:12:07 PM
should we know who that is?

The former CBS reporter who was viciously gang  raped and assaulted by a mob in Cairo during the "Arab Spring" demonstrations
Who now works for Sinclair broadcasting where you get all your BS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2020, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 12, 2020, 03:12:07 PM
should we know who that is?

It's Lara on Twitter. You know? You know here. Your woman. Your woman up the street. You know? You know her. The girl with the head.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2020, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 12, 2020, 03:12:07 PM
should we know who that is?

It's Lara on Twitter. You know? You know here. Your woman. Your woman up the street. You know? You know her. The girl with the head.

LOL

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

The day of reckoning is coming



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 04:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 12, 2020, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2020, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 12, 2020, 03:12:07 PM
should we know who that is?

It's Lara on Twitter. You know? You know here. Your woman. Your woman up the street. You know? You know her. The girl with the head.

LOL

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

The day of reckoning is coming

Ah jesus not this crap again ... was it not agreed to stop the tick tock nonsense after Hillary was totally exonerated?? If it wasn't then it should have been!!  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 04:29:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 04:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 12, 2020, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2020, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 12, 2020, 03:12:07 PM
should we know who that is?

It's Lara on Twitter. You know? You know here. Your woman. Your woman up the street. You know? You know her. The girl with the head.

LOL

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

The day of reckoning is coming

Ah jesus not this crap again ... was it not agreed to stop the tick tock nonsense after Hillary was totally exonerated?? If it wasn't then it should have been!!  ::) ::) ::)

It's coming down and coming down hard.....remember where you heard it first
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 12, 2020, 04:32:35 PM
Whitey... Sinclair Broadcasting...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 12, 2020, 04:34:34 PM
Fox Nation too  - also - the irony

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/27/business/media/leave-of-absence-for-lara-logan-after-flawed-benghazi-report.html

QuoteThe CBS News correspondent Lara Logan and her producer, Max McClellan, made serious errors in an Oct. 27 report on the attack on the American compound in Benghazi, Libya, and will take leaves of absence, the network announced on Tuesday. Four Americans died in the Sept. 11, 2012, attack, including Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens.

The moves come after weeks of criticism directed at a "60 Minutes" report which was based on an interview with a hired security agent, Dylan Davies, whose comments to CBS News were later discredited.

CBS did not specify the length of the leave of absence for its two staff members, nor whether they would continue to be paid. In general, television correspondents do not lose salary unless they are suspended.

In defense of its report, CBS said earlier that it had been duped by Mr. Davies. Mr. Ortiz contradicted that by saying CBS could have, and should have, been able to verify Mr. Davies's account before presenting him as a reliable source.

"The wider reporting resources of CBS News were not employed in an effort to confirm his account," Mr. Ortiz wrote. He concluded: "Logan and producer Max McClellan told me they found no reason to doubt Davies's account and found no holes in his story. But the team did not sufficiently vet Davies's account of his own actions and whereabouts that night."

The report also criticizes Ms. Logan for not adequately substantiating her conclusion that Al Qaeda took part in the attack and for making a speech in October 2012 that took a position on the attack, and then participating in a story in which she would have been expected to be objective about the facts of the attack.

"From a CBS News standards perspective, there is a conflict in taking a public position on the government's handling of Benghazi and Al Qaeda, while continuing to report on the story," Mr. Ortiz wrote. The report also took "60 Minutes" to task for not disclosing on the air that a book written by Mr. Davies about the incident was published by one of the company's units.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 04:41:02 PM
Tick, tick, tick, tick , tick, tick
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 12, 2020, 05:19:13 PM
Whitey:  You are doing a great job not addressing the real issues we are confronted with during this pandemic. Lift your head out of your Bubble and redirect your focus to the failings of the incompetent greedy syndicate that is running this country into the ditch yet again. Your faux rage against a justice department that defended the country against Foreign agents; Your stout defense of the Trump syndicate is admirable for a "non Trumper".
You are working very hard at keeping our eyes of the ball.
Spend a little more time addressing the pandemic, the biggest problem we have had to address since WW2.  Whether you know it or not you are only helping to prop up a dishonest greedy cabal by disseminating slanted propaganda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2020, 07:45:26 PM
Motion to re-name the thread "The official trying-to-convince-Whitey-of-the-existence-of-reality thread."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
In the city of San Francisco where I am right now the tenderloin is a no go zone with hundreds of extra homeless gathering there ignoring all instructions about masks and social distancing while the city officials implement strict guidelines for everyone else .  For the few that do listen they are put up in hotels and have alcohol and weed brought to the hotel for them so they don't leave , not sure if heroine is on the menu or not at the moment.  The policy of years coming back to haunt us .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 12, 2020, 09:20:24 PM
I hear heroine kills
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

Going back deep for the trolling there whitey!! Lol ;D

I imagine we'll get much the same outcome!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2020, 10:32:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/29/17/2FABA0FC00000578-3377831-image-a-14_1451409762473.jpg)

When the Clinton campaigns connection to this set up is revealed remember where you heard it first

Going back deep for the trolling there whitey!! Lol ;D

I imagine we'll get much the same outcome!!!

It's all coming out now-testimony that was unsealed last week should have some people very nervous

It's going to get very interesting. 

Paul Sperry
@paulsperry_
·
May 11
BREAKING: Clinton campaign lawyer Marc Elias testified he sent the bills from Fusion GPS to campaign manager Robby Mook, yet Mook has publicly denied knowing anything about the dossier at the time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 11:27:05 PM
Flynn not out of the woods yet looks like Sullivan isn't going to be bullied by Barr like the DOJ prosecutors were!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 13, 2020, 12:23:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 11:27:05 PM
Flynn not out of the woods yet looks like Sullivan isn't going to be bullied by Barr like the DOJ prosecutors were!!


This is going to get extremely messy-could go all the way to the Supreme Courtt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 12:34:44 AM
Don't tell me. Hillary's going to get busted for Benghazi?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 12:37:18 AM
Here's a handy resource:

https://trumpgolfcount.com/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 13, 2020, 01:03:39 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 12:34:44 AM
Don't tell me. Hillary's going to get busted for Benghazi?

She already did

Benghazi investigation led to the email problem which cost her the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 13, 2020, 03:11:41 AM
Almost as if that was the goal all along.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2020, 08:47:32 AM
Is this not all deflection news?

I think you could go all the way back to George Washington and have dirty dealings going on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 13, 2020, 02:13:50 PM
If I were Donald Trump's speechwriter, this is the team talk I would suggest
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/may/12/kareem-abdul-jabbar-covid-19-donald-trump (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/may/12/kareem-abdul-jabbar-covid-19-donald-trump)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 02:18:17 PM
Manafort has been let out of prison now. Trump sure is taking care of his criminal buddies - in a Julie Andrews sense, not Al Capone. He inflicts the Al Capone stuff on everybody else.

No fear of an actual American patriot like Reality Winner being let out of prison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 13, 2020, 02:36:28 PM
Let's see how many media outlets invite Shifty Schiff back on and hold him to account for  his bald faced lying



WSJ

REVIEW & OUTLOOK
All the Adam Schiff Transcripts
Newly released documents show he knew all along that there was no proof of Russia-Trump collusion.
By  The Editorial Board
May 12, 2020 7:29 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
1,139

Rep. Adam Schiff on Jan. 28.
PHOTO: JACQUELYN MARTIN/ASSOCIATED PRESS
Americans expect that politicians will lie, but sometimes the examples are so brazen that they deserve special notice. Newly released Congressional testimony shows that Adam Schiff spread falsehoods shamelessly about Russia and Donald Trump for three years even as his own committee gathered contrary evidence.

The House Intelligence Committee last week released 57 transcripts of interviews it conducted in its investigation into Russia's meddling in the 2016 election. The committee probe started in January 2017 under then-Chair Devin Nunes and concluded in March 2018 with a report finding no evidence that the Trump campaign conspired with the Kremlin. Most of the transcripts were ready for release long ago, but Mr. Schiff oddly refused to release them after he became chairman in 2019. He only released them last week when the White House threatened to do it first.

Are Trump's Bank Records the House's Business?

00:00 / 23:30
SUBSCRIBE
Now we know why. From the earliest days of the collusion narrative, Mr. Schiff insisted that he had evidence proving the plot. In March 2017 on MSNBC, Mr. Schiff teased that he couldn't "go into particulars, but there is more than circumstantial evidence now."


In December 2017 he told CNN that collusion was a fact: "The Russians offered help, the campaign accepted help. The Russians gave help and the President made full use of that help." In April 2018, Mr. Schiff released his response to Mr. Nunes's report, stating that its finding of no collusion "was unsupported by the facts and the investigative record."

None of this was true, and Mr. Schiff knew it. In July 2017, here's what former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told Mr. Schiff and his colleagues: "I never saw any direct empirical evidence that the Trump campaign or someone in it was plotting/conspiring with the Russians to meddle with the election." Three months later, former Obama Attorney General Loretta Lynch agreed that while she'd seen "concerning" information, "I don't recall anything being briefed up to me." Former Deputy AG Sally Yates concurred several weeks later: "We were at the fact-gathering stage here, not the conclusion stage."

The same goes for the FBI agents who started the collusion probe in 2016. Most remarkable, former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe admitted the bureau's reason for opening the case was nonsense. Asked in December 2017 why the FBI obtained a secret surveillance warrant on former Trump aide Carter Page, rather than on George Papadopoulos (whose casual conversation with a foreign diplomat was the catalyst for the probe), Mr. McCabe responded: "Papadopoulos' comment didn't particularly indicate that he was the person that had had—that was interacting with the Russians." No one else was either.

On it went, a parade of former Obama officials who declared under oath they'd seen no evidence of collusion or conspiracy—Susan Rice, Ben Rhodes, Samantha Power. Interviews with Trump campaign or Administration officials also yielded no collusion evidence. Mr. Schiff had access to these transcripts even as he claimed he had "ample" proof of collusion and wrote his false report.


He's still making it up. Last week he said the transcripts contain "evidence of the Trump campaign's efforts to invite, make use of, and cover up Russia's help in the 2016 presidential election."

The question we'd ask our friends in the media is when are they going to stop playing the fool by putting him on the air? Mr. Schiff is a powerful figure with access to secrets that the rest of us don't have and can't check. He misled the country repeatedly on an issue that consumed American politics.

President Trump often spreads falsehoods and invents facts, but at least he's paid a price for it in media criticism and public mistrust. An industry of media fact checkers is dedicated to parsing his every word. As for Mr. Schiff, no one should ever believe another word he says.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
"Shifty Schiff". That's a mean line in vaguely deniable anti-Semitism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 02:58:44 PM
Schiff should resign .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 13, 2020, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
"Shifty Schiff". That's a mean line in vaguely deniable anti-Semitism.

I think it's a pretty accurate description

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shifty

: given to deception, evasion, or fraud
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 03:09:45 PM
If the US had a few more like Schiff it wouldn't be in the situation it's in, where rampant corruption and kleptocracy rule and ordinary people are left to die by Trump.

But of course if you live on Earth 2, as a couple of posters here do, you believe what ever you want to believe.

Germans did that during the Nazi regime too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:07:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 13, 2020, 02:36:28 PM
Let's see how many media outlets invite Shifty Schiff back on and hold him to account for  his bald faced lying



WSJ

REVIEW & OUTLOOK
All the Adam Schiff Transcripts
Newly released documents show he knew all along that there was no proof of Russia-Trump collusion.
By  The Editorial Board
May 12, 2020 7:29 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
1,139

Rep. Adam Schiff on Jan. 28.
PHOTO: JACQUELYN MARTIN/ASSOCIATED PRESS
Americans expect that politicians will lie, but sometimes the examples are so brazen that they deserve special notice. Newly released Congressional testimony shows that Adam Schiff spread falsehoods shamelessly about Russia and Donald Trump for three years even as his own committee gathered contrary evidence.

The House Intelligence Committee last week released 57 transcripts of interviews it conducted in its investigation into Russia's meddling in the 2016 election. The committee probe started in January 2017 under then-Chair Devin Nunes and concluded in March 2018 with a report finding no evidence that the Trump campaign conspired with the Kremlin. Most of the transcripts were ready for release long ago, but Mr. Schiff oddly refused to release them after he became chairman in 2019. He only released them last week when the White House threatened to do it first.

Are Trump's Bank Records the House's Business?

00:00 / 23:30
SUBSCRIBE
Now we know why. From the earliest days of the collusion narrative, Mr. Schiff insisted that he had evidence proving the plot. In March 2017 on MSNBC, Mr. Schiff teased that he couldn't "go into particulars, but there is more than circumstantial evidence now."


In December 2017 he told CNN that collusion was a fact: "The Russians offered help, the campaign accepted help. The Russians gave help and the President made full use of that help." In April 2018, Mr. Schiff released his response to Mr. Nunes's report, stating that its finding of no collusion "was unsupported by the facts and the investigative record."

None of this was true, and Mr. Schiff knew it. In July 2017, here's what former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told Mr. Schiff and his colleagues: "I never saw any direct empirical evidence that the Trump campaign or someone in it was plotting/conspiring with the Russians to meddle with the election." Three months later, former Obama Attorney General Loretta Lynch agreed that while she'd seen "concerning" information, "I don't recall anything being briefed up to me." Former Deputy AG Sally Yates concurred several weeks later: "We were at the fact-gathering stage here, not the conclusion stage."

The same goes for the FBI agents who started the collusion probe in 2016. Most remarkable, former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe admitted the bureau's reason for opening the case was nonsense. Asked in December 2017 why the FBI obtained a secret surveillance warrant on former Trump aide Carter Page, rather than on George Papadopoulos (whose casual conversation with a foreign diplomat was the catalyst for the probe), Mr. McCabe responded: "Papadopoulos' comment didn't particularly indicate that he was the person that had had—that was interacting with the Russians." No one else was either.

On it went, a parade of former Obama officials who declared under oath they'd seen no evidence of collusion or conspiracy—Susan Rice, Ben Rhodes, Samantha Power. Interviews with Trump campaign or Administration officials also yielded no collusion evidence. Mr. Schiff had access to these transcripts even as he claimed he had "ample" proof of collusion and wrote his false report.


He's still making it up. Last week he said the transcripts contain "evidence of the Trump campaign's efforts to invite, make use of, and cover up Russia's help in the 2016 presidential election."

The question we'd ask our friends in the media is when are they going to stop playing the fool by putting him on the air? Mr. Schiff is a powerful figure with access to secrets that the rest of us don't have and can't check. He misled the country repeatedly on an issue that consumed American politics.

President Trump often spreads falsehoods and invents facts, but at least he's paid a price for it in media criticism and public mistrust. An industry of media fact checkers is dedicated to parsing his every word. As for Mr. Schiff, no one should ever believe another word he says.

Two words for you Whitey .. News Corporation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
In the city of San Francisco where I am right now the tenderloin is a no go zone with hundreds of extra homeless gathering there ignoring all instructions about masks and social distancing while the city officials implement strict guidelines for everyone else .  For the few that do listen they are put up in hotels and have alcohol and weed brought to the hotel for them so they don't leave , not sure if heroine is on the menu or not at the moment.  The policy of years coming back to haunt us .

What policies are you referring to. I would be interested to hear what specific things we got wrong and who enacted them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 06:23:11 PM
cnn is not a serious news network , Greta thunberg featured on an expert panel on covid 19 .
Go back to the trump is a Russian plant narrative more credible .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
In the city of San Francisco where I am right now the tenderloin is a no go zone with hundreds of extra homeless gathering there ignoring all instructions about masks and social distancing while the city officials implement strict guidelines for everyone else .  For the few that do listen they are put up in hotels and have alcohol and weed brought to the hotel for them so they don't leave , not sure if heroine is on the menu or not at the moment.  The policy of years coming back to haunt us .

What policies are you referring to. I would be interested to hear what specific things we got wrong and who enacted them.
before we get into this have you walked the streets of San Francisco lately?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 06:46:19 PM
The argument of Trump's lawyer is that he should literally be allowed to stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot people dead, and that nobody should even be allowed stop him doing so.

Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow at the Supreme Court: "We're asking for temporary presidential immunity"

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1260403656073109505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1260403656073109505&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231260403656073109505
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 13, 2020, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
"Shifty Schiff". That's a mean line in vaguely deniable anti-Semitism.

I think it's a pretty accurate description

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shifty

: given to deception, evasion, or fraud

Yup. Everything Adolf accused the Jews of being up to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
In the city of San Francisco where I am right now the tenderloin is a no go zone with hundreds of extra homeless gathering there ignoring all instructions about masks and social distancing while the city officials implement strict guidelines for everyone else .  For the few that do listen they are put up in hotels and have alcohol and weed brought to the hotel for them so they don't leave , not sure if heroine is on the menu or not at the moment.  The policy of years coming back to haunt us .

What policies are you referring to. I would be interested to hear what specific things we got wrong and who enacted them.

Well the taxophobic Proposition 13 has reverberated down through the years in all Californian cities. Plummeting revenue from homeowners that gets less and less every year means that cities have incentives to approve more commercial development (which generates more revenue and uses less services) than residential development (which generates less revenue and uses more services). The result is politicians who have a huge incentive to listen to the NIMBY lobby who object to the construction of any residential development taller than a gas station. Office developments get approved, housing does not, the jobs/housing imbalance keeps ratcheting up, and the city's transport infrastructure creaks under the weight of so many long-distance commuters. Lower level service industries struggle to recruit people who have to live so far away. Why wait tables in San Francisco and live in Concord when you could just live and wait tables in Concord?

San Francisco's problems are compounded by a convoluted planning system that makes developers jump through all manner of hoops only to have the goalposts moved again every time they meet the requirements put on them by NIMBY-minded supervisors. The lack of new housing stock doesn't have any effect on demand for housing, the higher wage earners who want to move into town will move into upscale condos if they're available, but if they're not then they'll move into areas that were previously dominated by lower income earners. So anti-gentrification protestors end up making gentrification and displacement worse by strangling the supply of housing.

Rent control is another factor. That's another disincentive for developers to develop rental properties, and it separates haves from have-nots based on the randomness of when they happened to move in. Someone who just moved into the Marina could be paying twice as much as their neighbor in an identical apartment who has held onto their lease since the 1980s.

Affordable housing is a requirement that's put on developers who have to have a specific proportion of their developments available below market rate. This effectively outsources the housing problem to the private sector, and in my opinion it has failed. If I had my way the restrictions on developers would be eased, the affordable housing requirement would be lifted, the planning process would be streamlined, the obstacles would be removed, but the developer fees would be higher, and that plus the property tax revenue from all the extra development would be used to fund higher quality public housing that would be available to more than just the absolute lowest income earners.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 13, 2020, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 13, 2020, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
"Shifty Schiff". That's a mean line in vaguely deniable anti-Semitism.

I think it's a pretty accurate description

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shifty

: given to deception, evasion, or fraud

Yup. Everything Adolf accused the Jews of being up to.

Tick tick tick tick
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 13, 2020, 09:23:58 PM
Am I wrong or is "unmasking" not a fairly standard thing???

So 39 people knew Flynn had contact with the Russians and someone leaked it is that the issue?

Obviously Obama knew Flynn was a wrongun which is why he told Trump not to hire him!

Obama speaking tomorrow apparently should be interesting!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 13, 2020, 09:44:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 13, 2020, 09:23:58 PM
Am I wrong or is "unmasking" not a fairly standard thing???

So 39 people knew Flynn had contact with the Russians and someone leaked it is that the issue?

Obviously Obama knew Flynn was a wrongun which is why he told Trump not to hire him!

Obama speaking tomorrow apparently should be interesting!


Flynn was up to no good, but it had nothing to do with the election or Russia.....if I were to guess it was about lining his pockets.  But they used him as the fall guy to spin this whole Russia Collusion fairy tale (which many in here have swallowed hook line and sinker)


I don't know whether it's standard or not, I'd have to do more research, but members of an outgoing administration looking for that info on dates coinciding with media leaks looks highly suspicious.  Other dates match closely with other major milestones in the Russia Hoax.

Some other people would have no business needing that info even though they were entitled  to ask for it.

Also, Samantha Powers, under oath, claimed she had no recollection of unmasking Flynn.....even though she did so 7 (fvckin) times

Some of these people should face a firing squad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 13, 2020, 09:52:50 PM
Samantha Power said back in 2017 that she did not necessarily make those requests!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 09:56:53 PM
All the unmasking requests started on nov 8 2016 that day ring a bell
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 13, 2020, 10:08:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 09:56:53 PM
All the unmasking requests started on nov 8 2016 that day ring a bell

What do the 10,000 made last year represent???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 10:15:40 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 13, 2020, 10:08:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 09:56:53 PM
All the unmasking requests started on nov 8 2016 that day ring a bell

What do the 10,000 made last year represent???
it started on nov 8 2016
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 10:31:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 13, 2020, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
"Shifty Schiff". That's a mean line in vaguely deniable anti-Semitism.

I think it's a pretty accurate description

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shifty

: given to deception, evasion, or fraud

Yup. Everything Adolf accused the Jews of being up to.
Prominent Republicans have consistently engaged in anti-Semitism over the last few years, most notably Trump himself. His online support tends to be highly anti-Semitic also, as can be seen in this thread.

This is no surprise as the Putin regime is also highly anti-Semitic and the Trump cult takes a large amount of its cues as to what to believe in from Russia.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 13, 2020, 10:38:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
In the city of San Francisco where I am right now the tenderloin is a no go zone with hundreds of extra homeless gathering there ignoring all instructions about masks and social distancing while the city officials implement strict guidelines for everyone else .  For the few that do listen they are put up in hotels and have alcohol and weed brought to the hotel for them so they don't leave , not sure if heroine is on the menu or not at the moment.  The policy of years coming back to haunt us .

What policies are you referring to. I would be interested to hear what specific things we got wrong and who enacted them.
before we get into this have you walked the streets of San Francisco lately?
Last time I was in San Francisco was 2 months ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 13, 2020, 10:46:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 10:31:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 13, 2020, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
"Shifty Schiff". That's a mean line in vaguely deniable anti-Semitism.

I think it's a pretty accurate description

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shifty

: given to deception, evasion, or fraud

Yup. Everything Adolf accused the Jews of being up to.
Prominent Republicans have consistently engaged in anti-Semitism over the last few years, most notably Trump himself. His online support tends to be highly anti-Semitic also, as can be seen in this thread.

This is no surprise as the Putin regime is also highly anti-Semitic and the Trump cult takes a large amount of its cues as to what to believe in from Russia.

How can you tell when a liberal is losing an argument?

When they start accusing people of being either racist, homophobic or anti Semitic.

Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 13, 2020, 09:23:58 PM
Am I wrong or is "unmasking" not a fairly standard thing???

So 39 people knew Flynn had contact with the Russians and someone leaked it is that the issue?

Obviously Obama knew Flynn was a wrongun which is why he told Trump not to hire him!

Obama speaking tomorrow apparently should be interesting!
Obama is a decent man and obviously an infinitely better president than his successor, though a tub of lard would also be.

However there was massive institutional failure under his watch in not dealing with the threat of Trump's criminality, and not revealing it to the public well in advance of the election. That goes for the FBI, intelligence services, the administration itself, and the media.

Trump's links to the Russian mafia go back to 1984 and he has been doing Soviet/Russian bidding in the US since then. His properties were all havens for Russian money laundering and his ties to the Russian mafia should have been front and centre of all discussion during the 2016 election, and since. And because Russia is a mafia state where the regime and criminality are indivisible from each other, once you're tied to the Russian mafia, you're an asset of the regime.

Robert Mueller himself identified the nature of international organised crime and how it works in 2011. And then his FBI promptly fell asleep on the job.

America is in the grip of a hostile power and the election will be run along Russian lines. ie. it'll be a simulacrum of democracy, ie. not democracy at all. It can't be ruled out that the 2016 election was hacked in Trumps favour either.

Literally everything with Trump and his propagandists is projection.

Pizzagate was projection to deflect from Trump's extremely close ties to Epstein and him being named in a court case as having raped a 13 year old girl in 1994. Trump likely had Epstein murdered.

Allegations of voter fraud against Clinton were projection for Trump's desire to himself hack the results. Whatever about 2016, he's all in on doing it this year.

The current ludicrous rape allegation against Biden is projection for Trump's history of rape and sexual assault.

The ludicrous allegation that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election to help Clinton, which was a conspiracy theory straight from Putin's mouth, was projection for Russia's very real interference on behalf of Trump in that election.

The ludicrous allegations of corruption against Biden were projection to mask Trump's campaign manager Manafort, who ran the "Torturer's lobby" with Roger Stone, assisting Yanukovych in raping the Ukrainian state and then escaping to Russia with his ill gotten billions.

The modus operandi of Trump is always to allege that about his opponents what he himself is guilty of.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 11:11:46 PM
"Hiding In Plain Sight" by Sarah Kendzior is well worth reading. It details the sheer breadth of the shameless corruption, criminality and utter disdain for any sort of humanity that Trump and his evil circle of criminal buddies have.

The podcast Gaslit Nation is an essential listen too.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gaslit-nation-with-andrea-chalupa-and-sarah-kendzior/id1400926647

The reality is that America basically has a mixture of Harvey Weinstein, Josef Goebbels and Vladimir Putin as president. In terms of threats to global democracy, what's happening now with Trump, Putin, Johnson, Bolsonaro and the likes of Orban, Erdogan, Netanyahu, Bin Salman and Modi is by far the greatest threat the world has faced since World War II. All these guys are complete crooks and enemies of humanity in general, and their interests generally overlap.

In the old days, censorship worked by actually censoring things. These days, it works by noise - flooding the public sphere with so much bullshit that people can't think. That's what Trump does and it's what his dutiful online supporters do too. You see it on every platform, this one included.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 13, 2020, 11:50:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 13, 2020, 10:46:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 10:31:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 13, 2020, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
"Shifty Schiff". That's a mean line in vaguely deniable anti-Semitism.

I think it's a pretty accurate description

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shifty

: given to deception, evasion, or fraud

Yup. Everything Adolf accused the Jews of being up to.
Prominent Republicans have consistently engaged in anti-Semitism over the last few years, most notably Trump himself. His online support tends to be highly anti-Semitic also, as can be seen in this thread.

This is no surprise as the Putin regime is also highly anti-Semitic and the Trump cult takes a large amount of its cues as to what to believe in from Russia.

How can you tell when a liberal is losing an argument?

When they start accusing people of being either racist, homophobic or anti Semitic.

Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick

Seems like Justice Sullivan doesn't have much time for ticking clocks  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 13, 2020, 11:55:38 PM
The Democrats must be fvckin raging at Judge Sullivan

If he had just given Flynn a suspended sentence like (supposedly) had been agreed upon, this $hit storm wouldn't be happening

Either way, I still think Flynn will get off (either case dismissed or conviction thrown out in appeal)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 11:56:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 13, 2020, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 13, 2020, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 13, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
"Shifty Schiff". That's a mean line in vaguely deniable anti-Semitism.

I think it's a pretty accurate description

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shifty

: given to deception, evasion, or fraud

Yup. Everything Adolf accused the Jews of being up to.

Tick tick tick tick

Don't tell me. Any day soon? "Obamagate" is going to be the biggest thing ever?

You people are weird.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 04:11:31 AM
GOP Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina is busted for insider trading:

FBI serves warrant on senator in investigation of stock sales linked to coronavirus. (https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-serves-warrant-senator-stock-015449810.html)

The conservative approach to this crisis has been beneath contempt. Deny that there's a problem, keep telling people it's safe to go to work to prop up the economy for as long as you can, but behind closed doors do as much shorting and dumping as you can based on the insider information you're getting as a little 'perk' from your job. And to hell with the people who die in vast numbers.

Bundle of thieving, murdering criminals, the whole bloody lot of them.

The evil death cult that is today's GOP will not be remembered kindly by history.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 04:13:54 AM
And before Whitey comes back with the usual "one side is as bad as the other" BS:

(https://i.imgur.com/zrkNGWN.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 04:19:26 AM
Quoth the LA Times:

"To obtain a search warrant, federal agents and prosecutors must persuade a judge they have probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. The law enforcement official said the Justice Department is examining Burr's communications with his broker.

Such a warrant being served on a sitting U.S. senator would require approval from the highest ranks of the Justice Department and is a step that would not be taken lightly. Kerri Kupec, a Justice Department spokeswoman, declined to comment."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on May 14, 2020, 10:49:04 AM
UK Times today, behind a paywall unfortunately. I bought the paper this morning and read the article, interesting article from @gerardtbaker.

'Evidence is growing that his administration bent the rules to undermine Trump's incoming team over Russian collusion'.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/obamas-halo-is-looking-tarnished-qhh0z8jvr
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on May 14, 2020, 10:59:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 04:13:54 AM
And before Whitey comes back with the usual "one side is as bad as the other" BS:

(https://i.imgur.com/zrkNGWN.png)

Source?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 04:11:31 AM
GOP Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina is busted for insider trading:

FBI serves warrant on senator in investigation of stock sales linked to coronavirus. (https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-serves-warrant-senator-stock-015449810.html)

The conservative approach to this crisis has been beneath contempt. Deny that there's a problem, keep telling people it's safe to go to work to prop up the economy for as long as you can, but behind closed doors do as much shorting and dumping as you can based on the insider information you're getting as a little 'perk' from your job. And to hell with the people who die in vast numbers.

Bundle of thieving, murdering criminals, the whole bloody lot of them.

The evil death cult that is today's GOP will not be remembered kindly by history.
if guilty hopefully they throw the book at him and anyone else involved including Feinstein .
On a side note some media sources are saying trump wanted the fbi to go after this to get rid of burr
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 14, 2020, 03:06:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 04:11:31 AM
GOP Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina is busted for insider trading:

FBI serves warrant on senator in investigation of stock sales linked to coronavirus. (https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-serves-warrant-senator-stock-015449810.html)

The conservative approach to this crisis has been beneath contempt. Deny that there's a problem, keep telling people it's safe to go to work to prop up the economy for as long as you can, but behind closed doors do as much shorting and dumping as you can based on the insider information you're getting as a little 'perk' from your job. And to hell with the people who die in vast numbers.

Bundle of thieving, murdering criminals, the whole bloody lot of them.

The evil death cult that is today's GOP will not be remembered kindly by history.
if guilty hopefully they throw the book at him and anyone else involved including Feinstein .
On a side note some media sources are saying trump wanted the fbi to go after this to get rid of burr

Yeah he's in charge of the Senate Intelligence Committee. . . I wonder why Trump would want to take that guy out??!!??  :o :o :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 03:24:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 14, 2020, 03:06:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 04:11:31 AM
GOP Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina is busted for insider trading:

FBI serves warrant on senator in investigation of stock sales linked to coronavirus. (https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-serves-warrant-senator-stock-015449810.html)

The conservative approach to this crisis has been beneath contempt. Deny that there's a problem, keep telling people it's safe to go to work to prop up the economy for as long as you can, but behind closed doors do as much shorting and dumping as you can based on the insider information you're getting as a little 'perk' from your job. And to hell with the people who die in vast numbers.

Bundle of thieving, murdering criminals, the whole bloody lot of them.

The evil death cult that is today's GOP will not be remembered kindly by history.
if guilty hopefully they throw the book at him and anyone else involved including Feinstein .
On a side note some media sources are saying trump wanted the fbi to go after this to get rid of burr

Yeah he's in charge of the Senate Intelligence Committee. . . I wonder why Trump would want to take that guy out??!!??  :o :o :o

Why do you think he was on the Senate Intelligence Committee in the first place? He was running to Trump telling him what Mueller was investigating so Trump would know what to hide.

Republicans don't see Coronavirus as a crisis at all. That would imply a measure of good faith, which doesn't exist with the vast majority of Republicans. They see it as an opportunity to get even more rich than they already are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 03:41:07 PM
Steve Schmidt is a Republican who worked for Bush and McCain, he left the party in 2018 because he saw what Trump had turned it into (though before 2016 it was already a long, long way down the road to being what it is now) - that said, I don't agree with him here about Trump's handling of the Coronavirus being "inept" - because again, ineptness would imply some small measure of good faith on the part of Trump  - which plainly doesn't exist - Trump has handled Coronavirus the only way he wants to or knows how - like a criminal psychopath with zero regard for humanity.

Thread:

https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1260922973239873536

Trump is waging an all out war on truth and reality.  It is fundamental to his re-election strategy. Obamagate is a lie. Nothing more. Nothing less. When news organizations try and explicate the lie as opposed to eviscerating it they become instruments in a cynical manipulation

and even complicit in the lie itself. Soon, 40 percent of the country will believe Obamagate is the worst scandal in American history. All of this is happening as the most corrupt administration in American history is assaulting the rule of law, claiming unlimited executive

Power at the Supreme Court , suggesting a US Presidential election may need to be postponed and incompetently and ineptly responding to one of the greatest crisis in US History. That is the story. That is reality. Pretending Trump's lies, smears accusations and nonsense should

Be covered equally in the name of fairness is a desecration of the concept of journalistic ethics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 03:41:07 PM
Steve Schmidt is a Republican who worked for Bush and McCain, he left the party in 2018 because he saw what Trump had turned it into (though before 2016 it was already a long, long way down the road to being what it is now) - that said, I don't agree with him here about Trump's handling of the Coronavirus being "inept" - because again, ineptness would imply some small measure of good faith on the part of Trump  - which plainly doesn't exist - Trump has handled Coronavirus the only way he wants to or knows how - like a criminal psychopath with zero regard for humanity.

Thread:

https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1260922973239873536

Trump is waging an all out war on truth and reality.  It is fundamental to his re-election strategy. Obamagate is a lie. Nothing more. Nothing less. When news organizations try and explicate the lie as opposed to eviscerating it they become instruments in a cynical manipulation

and even complicit in the lie itself. Soon, 40 percent of the country will believe Obamagate is the worst scandal in American history. All of this is happening as the most corrupt administration in American history is assaulting the rule of law, claiming unlimited executive

Power at the Supreme Court , suggesting a US Presidential election may need to be postponed and incompetently and ineptly responding to one of the greatest crisis in US History. That is the story. That is reality. Pretending Trump's lies, smears accusations and nonsense should

Be covered equally in the name of fairness is a desecration of the concept of journalistic ethics.
we get it you hate trump and republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 14, 2020, 04:09:26 PM
Why do we hate Trump and Republicans though it's very hard to put your finger on the reason . . .

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EX-_JCNXQAALW77?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 14, 2020, 04:21:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 14, 2020, 04:09:26 PM
Why do we hate Trump and Republicans though it's very hard to put your finger on the reason . . .

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EX-_JCNXQAALW77?format=jpg&name=small)

Screenexile, you don't help your case by posting obviously fake memes. Fox News and Fox Business are biased but they would never put out something like that.

Oh wait, here is the segment on his show

https://www.mediamatters.org/lou-dobbs/lou-dobbs-poll-asks-if-trumps-response-coronavirus-has-been-superb-great-or-very-good

and here is the poll

https://twitter.com/LouDobbs/status/1240421216692961284

@LouDobbs #LDTPoll: How would you grade President Trump's leadership in the nation's fight against the Wuhan Virus... superb, great or very good? #KAG2020 #AmericaFirst #Dobbs
SUPERB 79.2%
GREAT 11.9%
VERY GOOD 8.9%

OK, sorry I doubted you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 04:21:18 PM
Everybody should hate Trump and the Republicans, they're kleptocrats, racists, misogynists, science deniers and criminal scum.

That's the long and short of it. Trump is manifestly a terrible president and a criminal sc**bag who is out to take down the US from the inside. He should be in prison.

If you don't hate Trump and the Republicans you've either been living under a rock for years or you agree with fascism.

There's no both sidesing this. Democrats have generally been a consistent disappointment and are far too often gutless and are are far too often pushed around. Republicans are a kleptocratic death cult who are a mortal danger to society and to humanity.

If it's a choice between the two, and it is, I'll take the former over the latter every single time, thanks, because Democrats are at least open to reason, are generally reasonably competent, and offer some small hope for at least a moderate form of progressive change. Therefore they are the only hope at all for progressive change in the US - and what happens in the US affects the world.

America is already completely on its knees. Four more years of Trump will finish it off.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 04:39:55 PM
If I were a Trump supporter I would be delighted at your recent postings

Completely unhinged with no substance
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 04:21:01 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 14, 2020, 04:09:26 PM
Why do we hate Trump and Republicans though it's very hard to put your finger on the reason . . .

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EX-_JCNXQAALW77?format=jpg&name=small)

Screenexile, you don't help your case by posting obviously fake memes. Fox News and Fox Business are biased but they would never put out something like that.

Oh wait, here is the segment on his show

https://www.mediamatters.org/lou-dobbs/lou-dobbs-poll-asks-if-trumps-response-coronavirus-has-been-superb-great-or-very-good

and here is the poll

https://twitter.com/LouDobbs/status/1240421216692961284

@LouDobbs #LDTPoll: How would you grade President Trump's leadership in the nation's fight against the Wuhan Virus... superb, great or very good? #KAG2020 #AmericaFirst #Dobbs
SUPERB 79.2%
GREAT 11.9%
VERY GOOD 8.9%

OK, sorry I doubted you
you could put this poll in the shitter with the gaslit nation podcast .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 04:46:50 PM

you could put this poll in the shitter with the gaslit nation podcast .
You're another listener to it? That's quite the turn up.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:09:38 PM
It's very instructive the way the Trumpbots never debate anything of any substance here. Their only point in posting is that they can "own the libs".

In their own mind. Though to call what they have a "mind" is a bit over the top.

If the internet had existed in 1938 there would have been a load of people who thought they were "owning the libs" by trolling for Hitler.

Trumpbots are a classic example of how the psychology of fascism works on those it is intended to work on.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on May 14, 2020, 05:19:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:09:38 PM
It's very instructive the way the Trumpbots never debate anything of any substance here. Their only point in posting is that they can "own the libs".

In their own mind. Though to call what they have a "mind" is a bit over the top.

If the internet had existed in 1938 there would have been a load of people who thought they were "owning the libs" by trolling for Hitler.

Trumpbots are a classic example of how the psychology of fascism works on those it is intended to work on.

Hmmm. George Bernard Shaw, one of the leading left-liberal commentators of the day. https://www.nytimes.com/1933/11/24/archives/shaw-praises-hitler-as-able-statesman-but-chancellor-erred-he-says.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQvsf2MUKRQ&has_verified=1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:09:38 PM
It's very instructive the way the Trumpbots never debate anything of any substance here. Their only point in posting is that they can "own the libs".

In their own mind. Though to call what they have a "mind" is a bit over the top.

If the internet had existed in 1938 there would have been a load of people who thought they were "owning the libs" by trolling for Hitler.

Trumpbots are a classic example of how the psychology of fascism works on those it is intended to work on.

When he gets re elected you are going to have serious therapist bills
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: five points on May 14, 2020, 05:19:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:09:38 PM
It's very instructive the way the Trumpbots never debate anything of any substance here. Their only point in posting is that they can "own the libs".

In their own mind. Though to call what they have a "mind" is a bit over the top.

If the internet had existed in 1938 there would have been a load of people who thought they were "owning the libs" by trolling for Hitler.

Trumpbots are a classic example of how the psychology of fascism works on those it is intended to work on.

Hmmm. George Bernard Shaw, one of the leading left-liberal commentators of the day. https://www.nytimes.com/1933/11/24/archives/shaw-praises-hitler-as-able-statesman-but-chancellor-erred-he-says.html
I bet you thought you were making a devastating point there...

Unfortunately for you, you weren't, and are only backing up exactly what I say.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:32:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:09:38 PM
It's very instructive the way the Trumpbots never debate anything of any substance here. Their only point in posting is that they can "own the libs".

In their own mind. Though to call what they have a "mind" is a bit over the top.

If the internet had existed in 1938 there would have been a load of people who thought they were "owning the libs" by trolling for Hitler.

Trumpbots are a classic example of how the psychology of fascism works on those it is intended to work on.

When he gets re elected you are going to have serious therapist bills
You've completely proved my point for me there.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on May 14, 2020, 05:33:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: five points on May 14, 2020, 05:19:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:09:38 PM
It's very instructive the way the Trumpbots never debate anything of any substance here. Their only point in posting is that they can "own the libs".

In their own mind. Though to call what they have a "mind" is a bit over the top.

If the internet had existed in 1938 there would have been a load of people who thought they were "owning the libs" by trolling for Hitler.

Trumpbots are a classic example of how the psychology of fascism works on those it is intended to work on.

Hmmm. George Bernard Shaw, one of the leading left-liberal commentators of the day. https://www.nytimes.com/1933/11/24/archives/shaw-praises-hitler-as-able-statesman-but-chancellor-erred-he-says.html
I bet you thought you were making a devastating point there...

Unfortunately for you, you weren't, and are only backing up exactly what I say.

Hardly. Shaw was one of yours.  And the bilge that came out of his mouth was so bad that this footage carries a "This video may be inappropriate for some users." warning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQvsf2MUKRQ


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:37:59 PM
Quote from: five points on May 14, 2020, 05:33:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: five points on May 14, 2020, 05:19:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:09:38 PM
It's very instructive the way the Trumpbots never debate anything of any substance here. Their only point in posting is that they can "own the libs".

In their own mind. Though to call what they have a "mind" is a bit over the top.

If the internet had existed in 1938 there would have been a load of people who thought they were "owning the libs" by trolling for Hitler.

Trumpbots are a classic example of how the psychology of fascism works on those it is intended to work on.

Hmmm. George Bernard Shaw, one of the leading left-liberal commentators of the day. https://www.nytimes.com/1933/11/24/archives/shaw-praises-hitler-as-able-statesman-but-chancellor-erred-he-says.html
I bet you thought you were making a devastating point there...

Unfortunately for you, you weren't, and are only backing up exactly what I say.

Hardly. Shaw was one of yours.  And the bilge that came out of his mouth was so bad that this footage carries a "This video may be inappropriate for some users." warning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQvsf2MUKRQ

How do you think you are offering a counter argument to my point?

I'll give you a clue - you aren't.

You're literally proving it.

My point touched a raw nerve with you as you felt it referred to you, so you responded out of anger with a pointless non sequitur instead of addressing the point - because you are unable to argue against it.

Why did you do that?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:42:20 PM
Remember what Trump said on January 20, 2017.

"This American carnage stops right here and right now".

But what is happening now is American carnage, and it's all on him.

On January 20, 2017, the carnage was just getting started.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on May 14, 2020, 05:44:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:37:59 PM

My point touched a raw nerve with you as you felt it referred to you, so you responded out of anger with a pointless non sequitur instead of addressing the point - because you are unable to argue against it.


Calm down. You made a mindless comment about "Trumpbots" and 1938 support for Hitler. It took me a few seconds to rebut that. And you're ranting since. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 05:45:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:42:20 PM
Remember what Trump said on January 20, 2017.

"This American carnage stops right here and right now".

But what is happening now is American carnage, and it's all on him.

On January 20, 2017, the carnage was just getting started.

Serious question.....what will you do if he wins in November?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 05:48:52 PM
I read a great quote somewhere

A lot of people vote for Trump, not because they like him, but because he hates the same people they hate.

If the Democrats could rein the crazy woke wing of the party, they might have a shot, but good Lord, they're getting worse by the minute
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 14, 2020, 05:52:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 05:45:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:42:20 PM
Remember what Trump said on January 20, 2017.

"This American carnage stops right here and right now".

But what is happening now is American carnage, and it's all on him.

On January 20, 2017, the carnage was just getting started.

Serious question.....what will you do if he wins in November?

Serious question.. what will you do if Trump wins in November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:57:41 PM
Quote from: five points on May 14, 2020, 05:44:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 05:37:59 PM

My point touched a raw nerve with you as you felt it referred to you, so you responded out of anger with a pointless non sequitur instead of addressing the point - because you are unable to argue against it.


Calm down. You made a mindless comment about "Trumpbots" and 1938 support for Hitler. It took me a few seconds to rebut that. And you're ranting since.
You rebutted nothing. You posted an irrelevant non sequitur.

But hey, you said "calm down", you said I was "ranting", so I guess you win the argument by saying that, or something. At least you think so. You're "owning" me, a "lib", by saying that. Or something.

Donald Trump's propaganda methods are straight out of Nazi Germany. He dehumanises minority groups and dehumanises his opponents. He uses constant lies and threats, and the creation of a fact free alternative world to get what he wants. And repetition, repetition, repetition.

There is no way around this. Trump's propaganda methods are essentially identical to that of Hitler.

Trumpbots glory in this.

In the same way there was never a "lightbulb" moment where Hitler's supporters deserted him because he had gone too far, the exact same phenomemon has happened with Trump. There is no lightbulb moment, there never will be one, just a continual and inevitable descent into the depths of fascist depravity, in which criminality, racism, bigotry, rejection of science, rejection of reason and rejection of truth are gloried in, and the only response is trolling, gaslighting, and Beavis and Butthead style laughing to one's self that they're "owning the libs". Fascism is always about glorying in the pain of others and the responses here bear that point out.

But hey, you're "owning the libs" by laughing at 85k dead in the US from Covid-19.

Now, instead of making some glib, pointless comment that adresses precisely nothing, come up with an actual argument.

You won't.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on May 14, 2020, 06:06:51 PM
Never argue with someone who is foaming at the mouth.  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 06:09:55 PM
Whistleblower Dr. Rick Bright, who was fired because he rightly objected to Trump continually pushing a bullshit "treatment" for Coronavirus in the same manner that Alex Jones pushes his bullshit "health supplements", today said that "without better planning, the US could be facing its darkest winter in modern history".

After already going through its darkest two months since in living memory, with 85k dead.

And that's all on Trump on the Republicans.

Some "hoax", eh.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 06:15:53 PM
Quote from: five points on May 14, 2020, 06:06:51 PM
Never argue with someone who is foaming at the mouth.  8)
See again, you're just proving my point completely. You have literally nothing to respond with.

Imagine being angry at a president telling people the virus was a hoax and telling people it would go away like a miracle and failing completely on testing and firing the US's pandemic response unit and hoarding PPE and numerous other actions or inactions that are an affront to humanity.

Imagine being angry when 85k, and many more thousands to come, then die from that virus.

Now imagine laughing at people being angry at that. You don't have to, because that's exactly you're doing. But, hey, at least you got a laugh from it. Your level of "humour", and the level of "humour" of your fellow Trump-loving fools here is about as low as it gets.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 06:15:53 PM
Quote from: five points on May 14, 2020, 06:06:51 PM
Never argue with someone who is foaming at the mouth.  8)
See again, you're just proving my point completely. You have literally nothing to respond with.

Imagine being angry at a president telling people the virus was a hoax and telling people it would go away like a miracle and failing completely on testing and firing the US's pandemic response unit and hoarding PPE and numerous other actions or inactions that are an affront to humanity.

Imagine being angry when 85k, and many more thousands to come, then die from that virus.

Now imagine laughing at people being angry at that. You don't have to, because that's exactly you're doing. But, hey, at least you got a laugh from it. Your level of "humour", and the level of "humour" of your fellow Trump-loving fools here is about as low as it gets.

So Sid, given your incredible medical expertise in the area of infectious diseases, how much lower would the toll had been if Hillary had been in charge?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:23:31 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1260904992992567296/pu/img/D8bPVAfPW1YYYFyp?format=jpg&name=small
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 06:39:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 06:15:53 PM
Quote from: five points on May 14, 2020, 06:06:51 PM
Never argue with someone who is foaming at the mouth.  8)
See again, you're just proving my point completely. You have literally nothing to respond with.

Imagine being angry at a president telling people the virus was a hoax and telling people it would go away like a miracle and failing completely on testing and firing the US's pandemic response unit and hoarding PPE and numerous other actions or inactions that are an affront to humanity.

Imagine being angry when 85k, and many more thousands to come, then die from that virus.

Now imagine laughing at people being angry at that. You don't have to, because that's exactly you're doing. But, hey, at least you got a laugh from it. Your level of "humour", and the level of "humour" of your fellow Trump-loving fools here is about as low as it gets.
are you banging on about the response to the virus in the roi ?  statistically they would have 101k deaths with a population of 330m.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 06:41:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:07:58 PM

Two words for you Whitey .. News Corporation
Two words: Rupert Murdoch.

Murdoch has made it his life's work to propagandise for neo-liberalism, anarcho-capitalism and big business across Australia, the UK and the US. Inbuilt into anarcho-capitalism is a toleration for massive corruption and rhetoric which seeks to divide and destroy society, and any chance of opposition. Inbuilt into anarcho-capitalism is a sociopathic belief that there should be a 1% which reaps massive riches and underneath that, a 99% who are serfs. Inbuilt into anarcho-capitalism is an ultra-atavistic ideology in which literally anything is acceptable to bring about that scenario where the 1% triumphs absolutely over the 99%.

Rupert Murdoch set up Fox News so that a corrupt Republican president would never again face the same fate as Richard Nixon, because they'd have their own propaganda network (along with a mammoth industrial bullshit machine of other right-wing propaganda outlets and broadcasters) to completely queer the pitch of public debate to their advantage.

Editorial pieces in the Wall Street Journal are the voice of Rupert Murdoch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Here ya go again Whitey... absurd equivalence
The current score on the lie count is
Trump 18000 Chuck Todd 1
BTW why do you never answer or challenge any of my posts.

Tr
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 14, 2020, 07:06:33 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 10:38:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
In the city of San Francisco where I am right now the tenderloin is a no go zone with hundreds of extra homeless gathering there ignoring all instructions about masks and social distancing while the city officials implement strict guidelines for everyone else .  For the few that do listen they are put up in hotels and have alcohol and weed brought to the hotel for them so they don't leave , not sure if heroine is on the menu or not at the moment.  The policy of years coming back to haunt us .

What policies are you referring to. I would be interested to hear what specific things we got wrong and who enacted them.
before we get into this have you walked the streets of San Francisco lately?
Last time I was in San Francisco was 2 months ago.

GMAC Are you ready yet, to tell me what we got wrong and who is responsible ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 07:06:33 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 10:38:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
In the city of San Francisco where I am right now the tenderloin is a no go zone with hundreds of extra homeless gathering there ignoring all instructions about masks and social distancing while the city officials implement strict guidelines for everyone else .  For the few that do listen they are put up in hotels and have alcohol and weed brought to the hotel for them so they don't leave , not sure if heroine is on the menu or not at the moment.  The policy of years coming back to haunt us .

What policies are you referring to. I would be interested to hear what specific things we got wrong and who enacted them.
before we get into this have you walked the streets of San Francisco lately?
Last time I was in San Francisco was 2 months ago.

GMAC Are you ready yet, to tell me what we got wrong and who is responsible ?
take a listen to gaslit nation podcast heard it's right up your alley. I have to work now I'll get back to you .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 07:32:28 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Here ya go again Whitey... absurd equivalence
The current score on the lie count is
Trump 18000 Chuck Todd 1
BTW why do you never answer or challenge any of my posts.

Tr

I've hoed this row before with J70

NY Times-allowed Hillary's campaign to edit a pro Bernie article to an anti Bernie article

NY Times-allowed Biden's campaign to edit an article taking out some damaging allegations

NY Tiemes-completely defamed Justice Kavanaugh and continued to do so long after he was appointed

Never mentioned that the "source" of the allegations was a former attorney to Bill Clinton and that the supposed victim had no fvckin clue what they were talking about-yet what they wrote was so inflammatory several candidates were calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Xourt justice

That's as damaging if not more so to our Democracy whatever  bunch of nonsense Fox News is feeding their viewers

These people have about as much credibility as Rush Limbaugh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 06:41:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:07:58 PM

Two words for you Whitey .. News Corporation
Two words: Rupert Murdoch.

Murdoch has made it his life's work to propagandise for neo-liberalism, anarcho-capitalism and big business across Australia, the UK and the US. Inbuilt into anarcho-capitalism is a toleration for massive corruption and rhetoric which seeks to divide and destroy society, and any chance of opposition. Inbuilt into anarcho-capitalism is a sociopathic belief that there should be a 1% which reaps massive riches and underneath that, a 99% who are serfs. Inbuilt into anarcho-capitalism is an ultra-atavistic ideology in which literally anything is acceptable to bring about that scenario where the 1% triumphs absolutely over the 99%.

Rupert Murdoch set up Fox News so that a corrupt Republican president would never again face the same fate as Richard Nixon, because they'd have their own propaganda network (along with a mammoth industrial bullshit machine of other right-wing propaganda outlets and broadcasters) to completely queer the pitch of public debate to their advantage.

Editorial pieces in the Wall Street Journal are the voice of Rupert Murdoch.

Well said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Utterly hilarious. Trump's performance is measured in LPD, Lies Per Day. What's it up to today?As of January he was up to over 16,000 false or misleading claims since he took office.

As for the likes of CNN, Jon Stewart explained them better than I could. He said that if they have any bias, it's in the direction of sensationalism and drama, but to suggest that they're the equivalent of Fox is just ridiculous. MSNBC tries to be the left's version of Fox, but they don't quite make it. Fox is a well-oiled lying machine that's skilled in the art of propaganda to the point where Goebbels would have been impressed by it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 08:26:48 PM
Richard Burr: US Senate intelligence chief quits amid virus trading scandal (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52668126)

"He and his wife sold as much as $1.7m (£1.4m) of equities in February, just before markets plunged on fears of an economic crisis. It is illegal for members of Congress to trade based on non-public information gathered during their official duties."

Conservatives. They just can't help themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 08:29:24 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Here ya go again Whitey... absurd equivalence
The current score on the lie count is
Trump 18000 Chuck Todd 1
BTW why do you never answer or challenge any of my posts.

Tr

Messenger-shooting is the last resort of the conservatives now that they've been exposed for the shower of incompetent criminals they are. Did you see the conservative president running with his tail between his legs yesterday after two female reporters tried to question him at the briefing? I'd be embarrassed to have a coward like that running my Home Owner's Association, never mind a country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Diane Feinstein sold 1 to 5m worth of stock after feb18 but according to media she was just questioned and gave over all records whereas burr  house was raided and phone confiscated see how they spin it , or maybe Diane is a little more nuanced in such matters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 08:45:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 07:11:42 PM
take a listen to gaslit nation podcast heard it's right up your alley. I have to work now I'll get back to you .
How long have you been listening to it? You seem to be very familiar with it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 08:56:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Diane Feinstein sold 1 to 5m worth of stock after feb18 but according to media she was just questioned and gave over all records whereas burr  house was raided and phone confiscated see how they spin it , or maybe Diane is a little more nuanced in such matters.

I have had a securities license for 30 years and am mandated to do a compliance training module twice a year on insider trading. When the news broke I looked into it, and if what was said was true, Feinstein and the Republican lady from GA were in the clear, but Burrs actions were definitely questionable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 14, 2020, 09:00:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Diane Feinstein sold 1 to 5m worth of stock after feb18 but according to media she was just questioned and gave over all records whereas burr  house was raided and phone confiscated see how they spin it , or maybe Diane is a little more nuanced in such matters.

I wouldn't worry about it.

AG Barr will see he's looked after, assuming he's someone Trump cares about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Diane Feinstein sold 1 to 5m worth of stock after feb18 but according to media she was just questioned and gave over all records whereas burr  house was raided and phone confiscated see how they spin it , or maybe Diane is a little more nuanced in such matters.

Diane Feinstein didn't sell any stock after February 18th. Her assets are in a blind trust. Her husband sold stock on 13 January and 18 February. She did not attend the non public briefing that Burr attended.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 09:26:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Utterly hilarious. Trump's performance is measured in LPD, Lies Per Day. What's it up to today?As of January he was up to over 16,000 false or misleading claims since he took office.

As for the likes of CNN, Jon Stewart explained them better than I could. He said that if they have any bias, it's in the direction of sensationalism and drama, but to suggest that they're the equivalent of Fox is just ridiculous. MSNBC tries to be the left's version of Fox, but they don't quite make it. Fox is a well-oiled lying machine that's skilled in the art of propaganda to the point where Goebbels would have been impressed by it.
The New York Times, CNN and to an extent the Washington Post have a terrible propensity to frame stories on Trump's terms and stay away from stories that are genuinely harmful to him or not draw attention to the real stories that matter about him because they're petrified of being seen as biased against him. Consistent threats against the media tends to have that effect (and threats against the media have been Trump's stock in trade for his whole adult life) but it's still a big failing on the part of those organisations. Also CNN platformed an actual Nazi in Richard Spencer, for fook's sake. These organisations have major, major failings, but they are not in the direction that Trumpbots portray - they are in in the other direction - the direction that is advantageous to Trump.

Anybody who is still running with the narrative that "the media are anti-Trump" is strictly for the slow learners class.

On the contrary, CNN etc. made Trump because they gave him oceans of free coverage and the US media in general has consistently treated Trump as a normal politician when he's an existential threat to the US.

Bias doesn't even come into things. The concept of the media being "biased" against Trump is as ludicrous as the notion of the press having an "anti-Hitler bias" in 1938. Trump is objectively a fooking sociopathic, possibly psychopathic monster running a grotesque regime.

Incompetence is another thing that isn;t relevant, because it implies a measure of good faith on the part of Trump which does not exist. Trump is a wrecker, he's a nihilist. He is not there to be "competent" in any normal sense of the word that normal people understand. The problem is that he's actually highlly competent for wwhat he's there to do, which is to destroy the US from the inside and strip it for parts, make himself and his criminal kleptocrat buddies rich as hell, and completely trash the reputation of the US internationally and destroy the post World War II western alliance. It comes back to Trump being a Russian asset and in bed with the Russian mafia for four decades.

Media as entertainment has been an utterly disastrous development over the last three decades. The person who says the most ludicrous things is deemed the most "entertaining" by media desperate for ratings/sales/clicks/advertising, and thus gets the most coverage.

This is closely related to the far right idea of "the marketplace of ideas", a truly disastrous concept, which holds that there are no objectively right or wrong opinions or ideas, and that the worth of an opinion or an idea can only be measured by how much reaction it generates, ie. its entertainment value.

Idiocy and criminality are "entertaining". Stable, competent government is not. It's little wonder right-wing crackpots out to wreck the gaff continually say "people have had enough of experts".

Racists, flat earthers, climate crisis deniers and anti-vaxxers are "entertaining". Sober science, sober expertise and tolerance are not "entertaining".

Which is why the ideas and opinions that win in our age are so often the stupid ones, and why the politicians who win are so often the criminals and the psychopaths, the so called "charismatic" ones. It's no coincidence that so many of the looney right-wingers now in power or close to power around the world have so called "big" personalities. They understand politics as entertainment and soap opera.

It is capitalism in its purest form. And education is another enemy of such right-wing crackpotism. Rupert Murdoch has not just dedicated his life to making the rich richer and the poor poorer, but to making the poor less educated by serving them up a diet of sensationalist trash wherever he has gone. Trump and his criminal cabal hate education too, they hate liberal arts education most of all because it gives young people a ability to think critically. They hate public education, which is why Trump appointed as Education Secretary a billionaire who has a history of opposing public schools, to destroy the public school system. Education, and especially working class education, is a mortal threat to right-wing crackpotism.

Trump's followers (and that is what they are, followers, in the cult sense) all have the perfect mix of cyncism and gullibility, and a love of seeing others endure pain that has been developed by propaganda, that a pied piper is just waiting to exploit. All the most notorious fascists and authoritarians did that. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao, Putin in Russia, Modi in India, Erdogan in Turkey, Netanyahu in Israel, Orban in Hungary, Terreblanche in South Africa, Paisley in Northern Ireland.








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Diane Feinstein sold 1 to 5m worth of stock after feb18 but according to media she was just questioned and gave over all records whereas burr  house was raided and phone confiscated see how they spin it , or maybe Diane is a little more nuanced in such matters.

Diane Feinstein didn't sell any stock after February 18th. Her assets are in a blind trust. Her husband sold stock on 13 January and 18 February. She did not attend the non public briefing that Burr attended.
she ever speak to him you think.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:33:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Diane Feinstein sold 1 to 5m worth of stock after feb18 but according to media she was just questioned and gave over all records whereas burr  house was raided and phone confiscated see how they spin it , or maybe Diane is a little more nuanced in such matters.

Diane Feinstein didn't sell any stock after February 18th. Her assets are in a blind trust. Her husband sold stock on 13 January and 18 February. She did not attend the non public briefing that Burr attended.
she ever speak to him you think.

Yes

And she still didn't sell any stock

And her husband didn't sell any stock after February 18th

But other than that you were pretty accurate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 14, 2020, 09:36:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 08:45:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 07:11:42 PM
take a listen to gaslit nation podcast heard it's right up your alley. I have to work now I'll get back to you .
How long have you been listening to it? You seem to be very familiar with it!

Yes because some niche podcast nobody has heard of is the same as the Cable news behemoth Fox News...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 14, 2020, 09:37:05 PM
Sid- if you looked up Trump Derangement Syndrome in the dictionary your picture would be right next to it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:33:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Diane Feinstein sold 1 to 5m worth of stock after feb18 but according to media she was just questioned and gave over all records whereas burr  house was raided and phone confiscated see how they spin it , or maybe Diane is a little more nuanced in such matters.

Diane Feinstein didn't sell any stock after February 18th. Her assets are in a blind trust. Her husband sold stock on 13 January and 18 February. She did not attend the non public briefing that Burr attended.
she ever speak to him you think.

Yes

And she still didn't sell any stock

And her husband didn't sell any stock after February 18th

But other than that you were pretty accurate.
she sold half to a million dollars of Allogene therapeutics on Jan 31st and her husband sold 1 to 5 million of stock from same company on feb 18, burr is thought to have sold up to 172 m
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 14, 2020, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:33:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Diane Feinstein sold 1 to 5m worth of stock after feb18 but according to media she was just questioned and gave over all records whereas burr  house was raided and phone confiscated see how they spin it , or maybe Diane is a little more nuanced in such matters.

Diane Feinstein didn't sell any stock after February 18th. Her assets are in a blind trust. Her husband sold stock on 13 January and 18 February. She did not attend the non public briefing that Burr attended.
she ever speak to him you think.

Yes

And she still didn't sell any stock

And her husband didn't sell any stock after February 18th

But other than that you were pretty accurate.
she sold half to a million dollars of Allogene therapeutics on Jan 31st and her husband sold 1 to 5 million of stock from same company on feb 18, burr is thought to have sold up to 172 m

No she didn't
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 10:41:40 PM
There's a couple of things in this I disagree with, namely the concept of Trump being incompetent - he's not there to be competent - and the concept of right-wing media being a "perpetual misinformation machine"- it's a perpetual disinformation machine - misinformation implies inadvertant false information when there's nothing inadvertant about the false information peddled by right wing nutcases.

But the broad thrust of the piece - that right-wingers in the US are in the iron grip of a dangerous and nonsensical paranoia complex brought about by propaganda - is spot on.

It's been absolutely fascinating yet horrifying to see them desperately try to plug the Coronavirus into their insane right-wing culture war. America is living through a ghoulish age of disenlightenment.

https://theweek.com/articles/914220/conservative-victimhood-complex-made-america-impossible-govern

The conservative victimhood complex has made America impossible to govern

Ryan Cooper

The United States has had the worst national response to the coronavirus pandemic among rich nations largely because President Trump is an incompetent leader whose narcissism means he can focus on little beyond his own approval ratings. From the start of the crisis to today, he has completely failed to take the virus seriously, and refused to do anything meaningful to stop it. It was his job to protect America, and he can't do the job.

But Trump's appalling failure is only the most visible part of a vast ocean of right-wing dysfunction. For conservative zealots and media figures, the pandemic is quickly becoming just another culture war battleground — an axis of postmodern symbolic conflict, another vent for bottomless grievance, and fuel for a screeching victimhood complex. The practical effect will be to fuel infection and hamstring economic recovery. It's a stark obstacle before fixing this or any other crisis.


Let's take mask-wearing. As research about the coronavirus has developed, the effectiveness of masks in slowing the spread of the disease has become clear, above all in confined indoor spaces. Studies have found that being outdoors is relatively low-risk, and most infections happen when people are in proximity to each other indoors for a long time — but also that masks can drastically reduce the possibility of infecting others if you happen to be contagious. Offices, public transportation, stores, restaurants, church services, and especially homes are where most transmission happens. Wearing a mask whenever one is indoors around strangers is a cheap and no-consequence way of protecting one's community — even if it only helps a little, it's a minuscule inconvenience.

Yet a developing narrative on the right holds that masks are a sign of weakness and cowardice. Trump refuses to wear one even to set an example, reportedly because he thinks it will make him look bad. Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.) refuses to wear one even though it is not clear he is permanently immune after recovering from the disease. Vice President Pence refused to wear one even while visiting COVID-19 patients. On Fox News, Laura Ingraham defended Pence from critics, saying "They'll say this whole mask thing is settled science just like they do with climate change. Of course, it's not and they know it," despite having previously endorsed wearing them. (Naturally, after two cases of coronavirus cropped up in the White House last week, all staffers are now required to wear masks when in the building.)

Further down the conservative food chain, anti-mask fulmination has gotten more extreme and much weirder. First Things editor R.R. Reno claimed on Twitter that "Masks=enforced cowardice." A city order in Stillwater, Oklahoma requiring masks in businesses was quickly reversed when conservative lunatics threatened violence against workers trying to enforce the rule. The conservative base is taking the elite cue — in a recent poll, just 47 percent of Republicans report wearing masks in public, against 69 percent of Democrats. At New York, Ed Kilgore reports that in a suburban Georgia grocery store, conservatives glared daggers at him for wearing a mask.

Something similar is holding true with pandemic control measures like business closures. Smallish groups of mask-less protesters have swarmed state capitols across the country, demanding the economy be somehow reopened. When one Dallas salon owner refused to obey business closure rules and was locked up for a week, Texas Governor Greg Abbott quickly reversed his own action. "Throwing Texans in jail who have had their businesses shut down through no fault of their own is nonsensical, and I will not allow it to happen," he said. The salon owner, of course, successfully claimed victimhood and collected over half a million dollars from a crowdfunding campaign (which very well might have been the entire point).

It shouldn't be surprising that the reality of masks and other pandemic control measures is the precise opposite of the conservative agitprop line. Most masks and lockdown orders are primarily a way to protect others, not just yourself — which you would think would be exactly in line with purported conservative values of traditional masculinity. But facts have never stood in the way of the conservative persecution complex. Nothing gets their blood flowing like playing martyr before imaginary liberal tyranny. Casting oneself as Anne Frank for having to wear a two-dollar cloth mask at Walmart during the worst pandemic in a century would be a stretch for most people in the world, but not American movement conservatives.

This instinct is strengthened by how badly Trump has botched the crisis. He is the hero-president, the man before whom all Republicans must bow five times per day. His gargantuan, world-historical failure cannot be admitted, but neither can it be avoided. Therefore scapegoats and distractions must be found to relieve the cognitive dissonance. The virus is fake, or it only kills worthless old people, or it's a Chinese conspiracy. Measures to fight it are howling liberal tyranny, even if it's Republican governors enacting them.

Conservative media probably just can't help itself. The entire "perpetual misinformation machine," as Alex Pareene calls it, runs on whipping elderly white conservatives into a frothing rage over whatever is happening. Plus today, the president and half of the Republican congressional caucus are themselves eager right-wing propaganda addicts, forming a perfectly-sealed loop of insanity. It was likely inevitable that the pandemic would get sucked into the hysteria industrial complex, because that's what right-wing media does with everything.

Already this has created an ideal coronavirus transmission pool — a critical mass of right-wing extremists who are unwilling to obey government pandemic control measures and are convinced personal measures to do so are beta male cowardice. Many will become sick as a result, and some will die — but not only conservatives, as the virus will infect any available host. This will keep the pandemic raging, and hence further delay the restoration of the economy.

A different president who wasn't an addle-brained dolt would certainly have done something to fight the pandemic. But he or she still would have run directly into the conservative lunacy problem. It's hard to see how America can be governed when much of the country has taken leave of its senses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on May 14, 2020, 11:06:25 PM
This whistleblower medical guy that was sacked does not induce much confidence

Bright claimed he also agitated for a greater stockpile of masks, swabs and other urgently needed medical equipment but was met with "indifference" and was then sidelined. "I was told that my urgings were causing a commotion and I was removed from those meetings," he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/14/rick-bright-testimony-coronavirus-trump-ousted-whistleblower
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 14, 2020, 11:08:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 07:06:33 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 10:38:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 13, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 13, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
In the city of San Francisco where I am right now the tenderloin is a no go zone with hundreds of extra homeless gathering there ignoring all instructions about masks and social distancing while the city officials implement strict guidelines for everyone else .  For the few that do listen they are put up in hotels and have alcohol and weed brought to the hotel for them so they don't leave , not sure if heroine is on the menu or not at the moment.  The policy of years coming back to haunt us .

What policies are you referring to. I would be interested to hear what specific things we got wrong and who enacted them.
before we get into this have you walked the streets of San Francisco lately?
Last time I was in San Francisco was 2 months ago.

GMAC Are you ready yet, to tell me what we got wrong and who is responsible ?
take a listen to gaslit nation podcast heard it's right up your alley. I have to work now I'll get back to you .

Can you please tell me what gaslit nation has to do with you answering the question. I have never heard of it till now. Will listening to it help me understand what those SF policies that are coming back to haunt us are?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 14, 2020, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 07:32:28 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Here ya go again Whitey... absurd equivalence
The current score on the lie count is
Trump 18000 Chuck Todd 1
BTW why do you never answer or challenge any of my posts.

Tr

I've hoed this row before with J70

NY Times-allowed Hillary's campaign to edit a pro Bernie article to an anti Bernie article

NY Times-allowed Biden's campaign to edit an article taking out some damaging allegations

NY Tiemes-completely defamed Justice Kavanaugh and continued to do so long after he was appointed

Never mentioned that the "source" of the allegations was a former attorney to Bill Clinton and that the supposed victim had no fvckin clue what they were talking about-yet what they wrote was so inflammatory several candidates were calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Xourt justice

That's as damaging if not more so to our Democracy whatever  bunch of nonsense Fox News is feeding their viewers

These people have about as much credibility as Rush Limbaugh

While many of those are contestable.. I will give them all to you and the score is now
Trump 18000 The rest 5
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 14, 2020, 11:47:16 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:33:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: dec on May 14, 2020, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 14, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Diane Feinstein sold 1 to 5m worth of stock after feb18 but according to media she was just questioned and gave over all records whereas burr  house was raided and phone confiscated see how they spin it , or maybe Diane is a little more nuanced in such matters.

Diane Feinstein didn't sell any stock after February 18th. Her assets are in a blind trust. Her husband sold stock on 13 January and 18 February. She did not attend the non public briefing that Burr attended.
she ever speak to him you think.

Yes

And she still didn't sell any stock

And her husband didn't sell any stock after February 18th

But other than that you were pretty accurate.
she sold half to a million dollars of Allogene therapeutics on Jan 31st and her husband sold 1 to 5 million of stock from same company on feb 18, burr is thought to have sold up to 172 m

No she didn't

i heard she sold heroine to homeless people in san francisco hotels
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:47:40 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 07:32:28 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Here ya go again Whitey... absurd equivalence
The current score on the lie count is
Trump 18000 Chuck Todd 1
BTW why do you never answer or challenge any of my posts.

Tr

I've hoed this row before with J70

NY Times-allowed Hillary's campaign to edit a pro Bernie article to an anti Bernie article

NY Times-allowed Biden's campaign to edit an article taking out some damaging allegations

NY Tiemes-completely defamed Justice Kavanaugh and continued to do so long after he was appointed

Never mentioned that the "source" of the allegations was a former attorney to Bill Clinton and that the supposed victim had no fvckin clue what they were talking about-yet what they wrote was so inflammatory several candidates were calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Xourt justice

That's as damaging if not more so to our Democracy whatever  bunch of nonsense Fox News is feeding their viewers

These people have about as much credibility as Rush Limbaugh

While many of those are contestable.. I will give them all to you and the score is now
Trump 18000 The rest 5

Who said anything about Trump

I'm saying that the The NY Times, CNN and MSNBC are just as biased AGAINST Trump (and other conservatives) as Fox News is biased IN FAVOR OF  him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 12:54:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 14, 2020, 09:26:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Utterly hilarious. Trump's performance is measured in LPD, Lies Per Day. What's it up to today?As of January he was up to over 16,000 false or misleading claims since he took office.

As for the likes of CNN, Jon Stewart explained them better than I could. He said that if they have any bias, it's in the direction of sensationalism and drama, but to suggest that they're the equivalent of Fox is just ridiculous. MSNBC tries to be the left's version of Fox, but they don't quite make it. Fox is a well-oiled lying machine that's skilled in the art of propaganda to the point where Goebbels would have been impressed by it.
The New York Times, CNN and to an extent the Washington Post have a terrible propensity to frame stories on Trump's terms and stay away from stories that are genuinely harmful to him or not draw attention to the real stories that matter about him because they're petrified of being seen as biased against him. Consistent threats against the media tends to have that effect (and threats against the media have been Trump's stock in trade for his whole adult life) but it's still a big failing on the part of those organisations. Also CNN platformed an actual Nazi in Richard Spencer, for fook's sake. These organisations have major, major failings, but they are not in the direction that Trumpbots portray - they are in in the other direction - the direction that is advantageous to Trump.

Anybody who is still running with the narrative that "the media are anti-Trump" is strictly for the slow learners class.

On the contrary, CNN etc. made Trump because they gave him oceans of free coverage and the US media in general has consistently treated Trump as a normal politician when he's an existential threat to the US.

Bias doesn't even come into things. The concept of the media being "biased" against Trump is as ludicrous as the notion of the press having an "anti-Hitler bias" in 1938. Trump is objectively a fooking sociopathic, possibly psychopathic monster running a grotesque regime.

Incompetence is another thing that isn;t relevant, because it implies a measure of good faith on the part of Trump which does not exist. Trump is a wrecker, he's a nihilist. He is not there to be "competent" in any normal sense of the word that normal people understand. The problem is that he's actually highlly competent for wwhat he's there to do, which is to destroy the US from the inside and strip it for parts, make himself and his criminal kleptocrat buddies rich as hell, and completely trash the reputation of the US internationally and destroy the post World War II western alliance. It comes back to Trump being a Russian asset and in bed with the Russian mafia for four decades.

Media as entertainment has been an utterly disastrous development over the last three decades. The person who says the most ludicrous things is deemed the most "entertaining" by media desperate for ratings/sales/clicks/advertising, and thus gets the most coverage.

This is closely related to the far right idea of "the marketplace of ideas", a truly disastrous concept, which holds that there are no objectively right or wrong opinions or ideas, and that the worth of an opinion or an idea can only be measured by how much reaction it generates, ie. its entertainment value.

Idiocy and criminality are "entertaining". Stable, competent government is not. It's little wonder right-wing crackpots out to wreck the gaff continually say "people have had enough of experts".

Racists, flat earthers, climate crisis deniers and anti-vaxxers are "entertaining". Sober science, sober expertise and tolerance are not "entertaining".

Which is why the ideas and opinions that win in our age are so often the stupid ones, and why the politicians who win are so often the criminals and the psychopaths, the so called "charismatic" ones. It's no coincidence that so many of the looney right-wingers now in power or close to power around the world have so called "big" personalities. They understand politics as entertainment and soap opera.

It is capitalism in its purest form. And education is another enemy of such right-wing crackpotism. Rupert Murdoch has not just dedicated his life to making the rich richer and the poor poorer, but to making the poor less educated by serving them up a diet of sensationalist trash wherever he has gone. Trump and his criminal cabal hate education too, they hate liberal arts education most of all because it gives young people a ability to think critically. They hate public education, which is why Trump appointed as Education Secretary a billionaire who has a history of opposing public schools, to destroy the public school system. Education, and especially working class education, is a mortal threat to right-wing crackpotism.

Trump's followers (and that is what they are, followers, in the cult sense) all have the perfect mix of cyncism and gullibility, and a love of seeing others endure pain that has been developed by propaganda, that a pied piper is just waiting to exploit. All the most notorious fascists and authoritarians did that. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao, Putin in Russia, Modi in India, Erdogan in Turkey, Netanyahu in Israel, Orban in Hungary, Terreblanche in South Africa, Paisley in Northern Ireland.

Quality!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2020, 12:56:58 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 07:32:28 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Here ya go again Whitey... absurd equivalence
The current score on the lie count is
Trump 18000 Chuck Todd 1
BTW why do you never answer or challenge any of my posts.

Tr

I've hoed this row before with J70

NY Times-allowed Hillary's campaign to edit a pro Bernie article to an anti Bernie article

NY Times-allowed Biden's campaign to edit an article taking out some damaging allegations

NY Tiemes-completely defamed Justice Kavanaugh and continued to do so long after he was appointed

Never mentioned that the "source" of the allegations was a former attorney to Bill Clinton and that the supposed victim had no fvckin clue what they were talking about-yet what they wrote was so inflammatory several candidates were calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Xourt justice

That's as damaging if not more so to our Democracy whatever  bunch of nonsense Fox News is feeding their viewers

These people have about as much credibility as Rush Limbaugh

While many of those are contestable.. I will give them all to you and the score is now
Trump 18000 The rest 5

Never mind that whitey is playing a wee bit loose with his charges there, ignoring, as usual, points he didn't  refute or even address on previous discussions e.g. that for any honest reader, the Times didn't in fact remove any "damaging allegations " about Biden, the substance was still there in full;  and the so-called Clinton attorney whom he impugns and implies had ulterior motives re. Kavanaugh is in fact a highly respected, non-partisan figure in DC politics who is an expert in presidential transitions and has worked with both Democrats and Republicans. Yes, in the 90s, 20 years previously, he worked on the Clinton impeachment defense team because the DC law firm he worked for was hired by Clinton; giant of the legal field, personally sought out, he was not. In fact the only reason I had heard of the guy was because he is featured for his transition expertise in a book whitey himself recommended a month or two ago on this thread.

It's like discussing things with a creationist; you think something has been discussed and put to bed, then up it pops again, as if nothing had ever been said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 15, 2020, 01:04:03 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 12:56:58 AM


Never mind that whitey is playing a wee bit loose with his charges there, ignoring, as usual, points he didn't  refute or even address on previous discussions e.g. that for any honest reader, the Times didn't in fact remove any "damaging allegations " about Biden, the substance was still there in full;  and the so-called Clinton attorney whom he impugns and implies had ulterior motives re. Kavanaugh is in fact a highly respected, non-partisan figure in DC politics who is an expert in presidential transitions and has worked with both Democrats and Republicans. Yes, in the 90s, 20 years previously, he worked on the Clinton impeachment defense team because the DC law firm he worked for was hired by Clinton; giant of the legal field, personally sought out, he was not. In fact the only reason I had heard of the guy was because he is featured for his transition expertise in a book whitey himself recommended a month or two ago on this thread.

It's like discussing things with a creationist; you think something has been discussed and put to bed, then up it pops again, as if nothing had ever been said.

That poster is not here to debate in any way, he's here to troll and try to drag the thread onto the fantastical "Earth 2" that Trump supporters inhabit.

I'd strongly suggest reasonable posters put him on ignore. Attention is his oxygen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 15, 2020, 01:11:59 AM
The volte face of the so called "pro-life" set to being explicitly pro-death during the Coronavirus crisis has been entirely predictable.

In the words of Texas lietenant Governor Dan Patrick, "there are more important things than living".

Areas that voted Trump are are being and will be devastated by Covid, as they cheerlead their own destruction. And Trump doesn't give two hoots, because he only cares about one person - himself - and about three things - money, power and immunity from prosecution.

https://twitter.com/JeremySWallace/status/1261033514239221761

BREAKING: Texas officials report 58 new deaths since yesterday - single largest death toll in one day since this started. We have had 116 deaths over three days. Worst three day total this month.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
So "allegations" (unsubstantiated/false) are made in The NY Times that are so inflammatory, several presidential candidates, within hours of the piece being published, pledge that if elected they will impeach and remove a sitting Supreme Court Justice, and J70 thinks thats okay.

And this is exactly the type of bvllshit attitude by the left, that leads a lot of Trump supporters I know to not give a flying fvck about anything he says or does.

(And the fact that Max Stier once represented Bill Clinton is absolutely material information that should have been disclosed in the article.....by not disclosing it, and then people finding out after the fact just invalidates the entire article)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 01:28:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
So "allegations" (unsubstantiated/false) are made in The NY Times that are so inflammatory, several presidential candidates, within hours of the piece being published, pledge that if elected they will impeach and remove a sitting Supreme Court Justice, and J70 thinks thats okay.

And this is exactly the type of bvllshit attitude by the left, that leads a lot of Trump supporters I know to not give a flying fvck about anything he says or does.

Trumpers don't need any help from the left in adopting crazy ideas. I can assure you of that. The "liberals drive us crazy, therefore it's all your fault" defense does not impress me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 01:30:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2020, 01:04:03 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 12:56:58 AM


Never mind that whitey is playing a wee bit loose with his charges there, ignoring, as usual, points he didn't  refute or even address on previous discussions e.g. that for any honest reader, the Times didn't in fact remove any "damaging allegations " about Biden, the substance was still there in full;  and the so-called Clinton attorney whom he impugns and implies had ulterior motives re. Kavanaugh is in fact a highly respected, non-partisan figure in DC politics who is an expert in presidential transitions and has worked with both Democrats and Republicans. Yes, in the 90s, 20 years previously, he worked on the Clinton impeachment defense team because the DC law firm he worked for was hired by Clinton; giant of the legal field, personally sought out, he was not. In fact the only reason I had heard of the guy was because he is featured for his transition expertise in a book whitey himself recommended a month or two ago on this thread.

It's like discussing things with a creationist; you think something has been discussed and put to bed, then up it pops again, as if nothing had ever been said.

That poster is not here to debate in any way, he's here to troll and try to drag the thread onto the fantastical "Earth 2" that Trump supporters inhabit.

I'd strongly suggest reasonable posters put him on ignore. Attention is his oxygen.

I'm seriously considering putting Whitey on ignore. It would be nice to have an actual discussion about US politics that deals with the real world, rather than beating the dead horse of trying to convince a conservative that the Earth is not flat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 01:33:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2020, 01:11:59 AM
The volte face of the so called "pro-life" set to being explicitly pro-death during the Coronavirus crisis has been entirely predictable.

In the words of Texas lietenant Governor Dan Patrick, "there are more important things than living".

Areas that voted Trump are are being and will be devastated by Covid, as they cheerlead their own destruction. And Trump doesn't give two hoots, because he only cares about one person - himself - and about three things - money, power and immunity from prosecution.

https://twitter.com/JeremySWallace/status/1261033514239221761

BREAKING: Texas officials report 58 new deaths since yesterday - single largest death toll in one day since this started. We have had 116 deaths over three days. Worst three day total this month.

The red(neck) states are about to get a very painful lesson in how natural selection works, something they've been denying for years and will continue to deny into their mass graves. As Whitey would say, tick tock tick tock...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 15, 2020, 01:42:24 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 01:33:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2020, 01:11:59 AM
The volte face of the so called "pro-life" set to being explicitly pro-death during the Coronavirus crisis has been entirely predictable.

In the words of Texas lietenant Governor Dan Patrick, "there are more important things than living".

Areas that voted Trump are are being and will be devastated by Covid, as they cheerlead their own destruction. And Trump doesn't give two hoots, because he only cares about one person - himself - and about three things - money, power and immunity from prosecution.

https://twitter.com/JeremySWallace/status/1261033514239221761

BREAKING: Texas officials report 58 new deaths since yesterday - single largest death toll in one day since this started. We have had 116 deaths over three days. Worst three day total this month.

The red(neck) states are about to get a very painful lesson in how natural selection works, something they've been denying for years and will continue to deny into their mass graves. As Whitey would say, tick tock tick tock...
you two can hope anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 15, 2020, 01:53:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 01:28:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
So "allegations" (unsubstantiated/false) are made in The NY Times that are so inflammatory, several presidential candidates, within hours of the piece being published, pledge that if elected they will impeach and remove a sitting Supreme Court Justice, and J70 thinks thats okay.

And this is exactly the type of bvllshit attitude by the left, that leads a lot of Trump supporters I know to not give a flying fvck about anything he says or does.

Trumpers don't need any help from the left in adopting crazy ideas. I can assure you of that. The "liberals drive us crazy, therefore it's all your fault" defense does not impress me.
Being pushed into voting for a fascist by those "nasty, nasty libs" is not a real thing. It's an excuse, and denies agency and personal responsibiity, which I thought right wingers were huge on. Apparently not.

But where would the right wingers be without eternal fake victimhood?

They think inconvenience is fascism, or at least that's what right-wing media tells them to believe. But actual fascism, nah.

Of course the irony is that many, maybe most Trump supporters are very real victims - victims of poverty, victims of poor living conditions, poor health, poor (if any) health coverage, poor education, and of propaganda.

But these aren't the things they believe they are victims of - well at least not when Trump, who is a hyper, on industrial levels of steroids version of the failed ideology that has left so many Americans of all political perusuasions in a perilous state - is president.

If Biden somehow gets in it'll be all his fault, just like it was all conveniently Obama's fault after the 2008 financial crash.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2020, 01:55:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
So "allegations" (unsubstantiated/false) are made in The NY Times that are so inflammatory, several presidential candidates, within hours of the piece being published, pledge that if elected they will impeach and remove a sitting Supreme Court Justice, and J70 thinks thats okay.

And this is exactly the type of bvllshit attitude by the left, that leads a lot of Trump supporters I know to not give a flying fvck about anything he says or does.

(And the fact that Max Stier once represented Bill Clinton is absolutely material information that should have been disclosed in the article.....by not disclosing it, and then people finding out after the fact just invalidates the entire article)

1. Those who are interested (and I'm sure few are) can go back to April 16/17, 2020 when we were discussing this very issue on this thread. Do so yourself if you want. I'm not typing out the same back and forth again so soon. Here is a link even to the middle of the posts: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=11632.msg1967388#msg1967388 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=11632.msg1967388#msg1967388). Knock yourself out.
 
2. The only way Stier being a minor player on Clinton's impeachment defense team more than 20 years ago  invalidates it is IF you're dishonestly just looking for any excuse, no matter how weak, to dismiss the story or opinion. Especially when he is someone who has not been a partisan player or party hack at any time in his career. No doubt you'll pull him out again next month though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 02:14:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2020, 01:53:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 01:28:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
So "allegations" (unsubstantiated/false) are made in The NY Times that are so inflammatory, several presidential candidates, within hours of the piece being published, pledge that if elected they will impeach and remove a sitting Supreme Court Justice, and J70 thinks thats okay.

And this is exactly the type of bvllshit attitude by the left, that leads a lot of Trump supporters I know to not give a flying fvck about anything he says or does.

Trumpers don't need any help from the left in adopting crazy ideas. I can assure you of that. The "liberals drive us crazy, therefore it's all your fault" defense does not impress me.
Being pushed into voting for a fascist by those "nasty, nasty libs" is not a real thing. It's an excuse, and denies agency and personal responsibiity, which I thought right wingers were huge on. Apparently not.

But where would the right wingers be without eternal fake victimhood?

They think inconvenience is fascism, or at least that's what right-wing media tells them to believe. But actual fascism, nah.

Of course the irony is that many, maybe most Trump supporters are very real victims - victims of poverty, victims of poor living conditions, poor health, poor (if any) health coverage, poor education, and of propaganda.

But these aren't the things they believe they are victims of - well at least not when Trump, who is a hyper, on industrial levels of steroids version of the failed ideology that has left so many Americans of all political perusuasions in a perilous state - is president.

If Biden somehow gets in it'll be all his fault, just like it was all conveniently Obama's fault after the 2008 financial crash.

Who said anyone was pushed into anything

I said, if you took the time to read it, that the outrageous behavior of the Democrats and their allies in the media, makes it very easy for Trumps supporters to simply overlook (and maybe even applaud)  Trumps equally obnoxious and divisive behavior

So get down off all of your moral high horses, because the Democrats are equally as big a pack of scumbags as the Republicans


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2020, 02:14:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 01:28:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
So "allegations" (unsubstantiated/false) are made in The NY Times that are so inflammatory, several presidential candidates, within hours of the piece being published, pledge that if elected they will impeach and remove a sitting Supreme Court Justice, and J70 thinks thats okay.

And this is exactly the type of bvllshit attitude by the left, that leads a lot of Trump supporters I know to not give a flying fvck about anything he says or does.

Trumpers don't need any help from the left in adopting crazy ideas. I can assure you of that. The "liberals drive us crazy, therefore it's all your fault" defense does not impress me.

We had something similar after the last presidential election. whitey lecturing us on how all these working class whites were tired of being talked down to by the Dems, and so took their ball and went and voted for a man like Trump. It was all OUR fault that Trump was elected, NOT the seduction of the GOP base by and the surrender of the party to a corrupt, amoral, bigoted demogogue pushing all those buttons.

Their "skeptical" and "reluctant" adoration and debasement continues to this day, unabated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 02:29:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 02:14:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 01:28:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
So "allegations" (unsubstantiated/false) are made in The NY Times that are so inflammatory, several presidential candidates, within hours of the piece being published, pledge that if elected they will impeach and remove a sitting Supreme Court Justice, and J70 thinks thats okay.

And this is exactly the type of bvllshit attitude by the left, that leads a lot of Trump supporters I know to not give a flying fvck about anything he says or does.

Trumpers don't need any help from the left in adopting crazy ideas. I can assure you of that. The "liberals drive us crazy, therefore it's all your fault" defense does not impress me.

We had something similar after the last presidential election. whitey lecturing us on how all these working class whites were tired of being talked down to by the Dems, and so took their ball and went and voted for a man like Trump. It was all OUR fault that Trump was elected, NOT the seduction of the GOP base by and the surrender of the party to a corrupt, amoral, bigoted demogogue pushing all those buttons.

Their "skeptical" and "reluctant" adoration and debasement continues to this day, unabated.

J70....you know well, the GOP base did  not decide the election......the swing voters did, and the swing voters some of whom voted for Obama TWICE,  had enough of the raving lunacy of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party..

And on top of that, they even lost Democrats to Trump. it wasnt a bunch of toothless Confederate flag waving yobos who got Trump elected.....it was people who not too long ago used to make up the base of the Democratic Party......regular decent law abiding hard working people, who are now being told by the AOCs and Elizabeth Warrens of the world to STFU if they dont agree with every woke initiative they concocted this week

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/02/719366845/bidens-pitch-to-white-working-class-voters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 15, 2020, 03:11:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:47:40 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 07:32:28 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Here ya go again Whitey... absurd equivalence
The current score on the lie count is
Trump 18000 Chuck Todd 1
BTW why do you never answer or challenge any of my posts.

Tr

I've hoed this row before with J70

NY Times-allowed Hillary's campaign to edit a pro Bernie article to an anti Bernie article

NY Times-allowed Biden's campaign to edit an article taking out some damaging allegations

NY Tiemes-completely defamed Justice Kavanaugh and continued to do so long after he was appointed

Never mentioned that the "source" of the allegations was a former attorney to Bill Clinton and that the supposed victim had no fvckin clue what they were talking about-yet what they wrote was so inflammatory several candidates were calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Xourt justice

That's as damaging if not more so to our Democracy whatever  bunch of nonsense Fox News is feeding their viewers

These people have about as much credibility as Rush Limbaugh

While many of those are contestable.. I will give them all to you and the score is now
Trump 18000 The rest 5

Who said anything about Trump

I'm saying that the The NY Times, CNN and MSNBC are just as biased AGAINST Trump (and other conservatives) as Fox News is biased IN FAVOR OF  him

In your world whitey their mostly (overwhelmingly) fact based reporting is equivalent to the torrent of disinformation coming from News Corp (Fox etc) and Sinclair Broadcasting. That's the point I am trying to make. There's absolutely no point in trying to help you see the way in which your parroting of Fox and Sinclair is supporting a false narrative that is keeping the incompetent crew who are currently running the country in power. And yes I know you are not a Trumpy ... you just type like one. Even the complete and absolute balls Trump is making of handling this pandemic seems to be lost on you. I give up. Over and out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 03:59:40 AM
McConnell admits he was wrong to say Obama administration failed to leave pandemic playbook (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/14/politics/mitch-mcconnell-obama-coronavirus-pandemic/index.html)

The concession comes days after he falsely accused the Obama administration of failing to leave the Trump administration "any kind of game plan" for something like the coronavirus pandemic during a Trump campaign online chat with Lara Trump, the President's daughter-in-law.

"They claim pandemics only happen once every hundred years but what if that's no longer true? We want to be early, ready for the next one, because clearly the Obama administration did not leave to this administration any kind of game plan for something like this," McConnell had said Monday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on May 15, 2020, 09:02:40 AM
Trump is not a well man.

Who talks about "Doctors running into death just like soldiers running into bullets".."it's a beautiful thing to see."

He truly lacks empathy as we all know but that takes it to another level.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 15, 2020, 09:34:12 AM
The Daily Show have broken down Obamagate for anyone who's not sure about it . . .

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1261088476776333313
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 15, 2020, 11:28:04 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 15, 2020, 09:02:40 AM
Trump is not a well man.

Who talks about "Doctors running into death just like soldiers running into bullets".."it's a beautiful thing to see."

He truly lacks empathy as we all know but that takes it to another level.
But he's always been like that. He's a total sc**bag who uses tragedy for self promotion, completely amoral. On September 11th, 2001, his reaction was to brag that one of his buildings was now the tallest in Manhattan (it wasn't).

I think people should not use mental illness in relation to Trump because there's no real evidence he's mentally ill - he's a self promoter, a grifter, a con artist and a ruthless criminal, and always has been.

It's the same with people like Gemma O'Doherty or Alex Jones. I don't think people should call them mentally ill. They are just objectively utterly appalling people who try to con the gullible for their own financial benefit.

I wouldn't call people involved in organised crime mentally ill. There's no reason to think getting involved in organised crime is indicative of mental illness. They have simply made the decision to be criminal scumbags.








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 15, 2020, 03:11:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:47:40 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 07:32:28 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Here ya go again Whitey... absurd equivalence
The current score on the lie count is
Trump 18000 Chuck Todd 1
BTW why do you never answer or challenge any of my posts.

Tr

I've hoed this row before with J70

NY Times-allowed Hillary's campaign to edit a pro Bernie article to an anti Bernie article

NY Times-allowed Biden's campaign to edit an article taking out some damaging allegations

NY Tiemes-completely defamed Justice Kavanaugh and continued to do so long after he was appointed

Never mentioned that the "source" of the allegations was a former attorney to Bill Clinton and that the supposed victim had no fvckin clue what they were talking about-yet what they wrote was so inflammatory several candidates were calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Xourt justice

That's as damaging if not more so to our Democracy whatever  bunch of nonsense Fox News is feeding their viewers

These people have about as much credibility as Rush Limbaugh

While many of those are contestable.. I will give them all to you and the score is now
Trump 18000 The rest 5

Who said anything about Trump

I'm saying that the The NY Times, CNN and MSNBC are just as biased AGAINST Trump (and other conservatives) as Fox News is biased IN FAVOR OF  him

In your world whitey their mostly (overwhelmingly) fact based reporting is equivalent to the torrent of disinformation coming from News Corp (Fox etc) and Sinclair Broadcasting. That's the point I am trying to make. There's absolutely no point in trying to help you see the way in which your parroting of Fox and Sinclair is supporting a false narrative that is keeping the incompetent crew who are currently running the country in power. And yes I know you are not a Trumpy ... you just type like one. Even the complete and absolute balls Trump is making of handling this pandemic seems to be lost on you. I give up. Over and out

Sid.....don't take my word for it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/2/jill-abramson-ex-new-york-times-editor-rips-papers/

Jill Abramson, the Harvard lecturer who served as the first and only female executive editor of The New York Times from 2011 to 2014, has some harsh words for her former employer in her upcoming book, saying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 15, 2020, 01:48:37 PM
Heaven forbid

As the death toll rises, Trump's claims to global leadership have became more far-fetched. He told Republicans last week that he had had a round of phone calls with Angela Merkel, Shinzo Abe and other unnamed world leaders and insisted "so many of them, almost all of them, I would say all of them believe the US is leading the way."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/15/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-world-leaders (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/15/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-world-leaders)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2020, 03:53:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 02:29:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 02:14:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 15, 2020, 01:28:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
So "allegations" (unsubstantiated/false) are made in The NY Times that are so inflammatory, several presidential candidates, within hours of the piece being published, pledge that if elected they will impeach and remove a sitting Supreme Court Justice, and J70 thinks thats okay.

And this is exactly the type of bvllshit attitude by the left, that leads a lot of Trump supporters I know to not give a flying fvck about anything he says or does.

Trumpers don't need any help from the left in adopting crazy ideas. I can assure you of that. The "liberals drive us crazy, therefore it's all your fault" defense does not impress me.

We had something similar after the last presidential election. whitey lecturing us on how all these working class whites were tired of being talked down to by the Dems, and so took their ball and went and voted for a man like Trump. It was all OUR fault that Trump was elected, NOT the seduction of the GOP base by and the surrender of the party to a corrupt, amoral, bigoted demogogue pushing all those buttons.

Their "skeptical" and "reluctant" adoration and debasement continues to this day, unabated.

J70....you know well, the GOP base did  not decide the election......the swing voters did, and the swing voters some of whom voted for Obama TWICE,  had enough of the raving lunacy of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party..

And on top of that, they even lost Democrats to Trump. it wasnt a bunch of toothless Confederate flag waving yobos who got Trump elected.....it was people who not too long ago used to make up the base of the Democratic Party......regular decent law abiding hard working people, who are now being told by the AOCs and Elizabeth Warrens of the world to STFU if they dont agree with every woke initiative they concocted this week

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/02/719366845/bidens-pitch-to-white-working-class-voters

Hillary lost those voters, not fringe issues like the (justifiable) rights of transgender people. She was an awful candidate and the Republicans successfully branded her as a corrupt elitest, aided and abetted at a crucial moment by Comey (one wonders what an investigation of the Trump admin's use of personal email would turn up, never mind his and their corruption and self-dealing?) while embracing a man with all kinds of skeletons in his closet who was smart enough to know which buttons to push.

We've gone over the AOC stuff before. If her and Elizabeth Warren are the heart and soul of the Democratic party and ruthless enforcers of party orthodoxy, why is the bland, centrist Joe Biden the nominee or AOC more or less irrelevant to Nancy Pelosi? Obviously there is an ultra-progressive wing of the Democratic Party, but there are a number of other wings too. Prostrate before AOC and Warren, ala the GOP before Trump, the Dems are absolutely not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2020, 03:54:39 PM
Quote from: glens73 on May 15, 2020, 01:48:37 PM
Heaven forbid

As the death toll rises, Trump's claims to global leadership have became more far-fetched. He told Republicans last week that he had had a round of phone calls with Angela Merkel, Shinzo Abe and other unnamed world leaders and insisted "so many of them, almost all of them, I would say all of them believe the US is leading the way."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/15/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-world-leaders (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/15/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-world-leaders)

His latest stable genius insight is that if it were not for all the testing, the US would not have so many cases. ??? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 04:41:51 PM
J70-Warren and Bernie were doing great in the polls until they decided abolishing private healthcare was a winning issue. Joe won because even Democratic Primary voters knew that the policies of the likes of Warren, Bernie, Castro and Mayor Pete were so outside the mainstream that Trump would demolish them in a General Election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 15, 2020, 05:11:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 15, 2020, 03:11:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:47:40 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 07:32:28 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 14, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 14, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
LOL

And The NY Times, WaPo, CNN and MSNBC are neutral commentators in all this?

They are the biggest pack of fvckin liars that ever existed

Your buddy Chick Todd just had to apologize for using a selectively edited clip this week

Here ya go again Whitey... absurd equivalence
The current score on the lie count is
Trump 18000 Chuck Todd 1
BTW why do you never answer or challenge any of my posts.

Tr

I've hoed this row before with J70

NY Times-allowed Hillary's campaign to edit a pro Bernie article to an anti Bernie article

NY Times-allowed Biden's campaign to edit an article taking out some damaging allegations

NY Tiemes-completely defamed Justice Kavanaugh and continued to do so long after he was appointed

Never mentioned that the "source" of the allegations was a former attorney to Bill Clinton and that the supposed victim had no fvckin clue what they were talking about-yet what they wrote was so inflammatory several candidates were calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Xourt justice

That's as damaging if not more so to our Democracy whatever  bunch of nonsense Fox News is feeding their viewers

These people have about as much credibility as Rush Limbaugh

While many of those are contestable.. I will give them all to you and the score is now
Trump 18000 The rest 5

Who said anything about Trump

I'm saying that the The NY Times, CNN and MSNBC are just as biased AGAINST Trump (and other conservatives) as Fox News is biased IN FAVOR OF  him

In your world whitey their mostly (overwhelmingly) fact based reporting is equivalent to the torrent of disinformation coming from News Corp (Fox etc) and Sinclair Broadcasting. That's the point I am trying to make. There's absolutely no point in trying to help you see the way in which your parroting of Fox and Sinclair is supporting a false narrative that is keeping the incompetent crew who are currently running the country in power. And yes I know you are not a Trumpy ... you just type like one. Even the complete and absolute balls Trump is making of handling this pandemic seems to be lost on you. I give up. Over and out

Sid.....don't take my word for it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/2/jill-abramson-ex-new-york-times-editor-rips-papers/

Jill Abramson, the Harvard lecturer who served as the first and only female executive editor of The New York Times from 2011 to 2014, has some harsh words for her former employer in her upcoming book, saying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

Whitey ... is mise Ó Mochain. Jill's book was published last year and did not sell well despite Trump touting it. Apparently the plagiarism and inaccuracies hurt it's credibility. You are going to have to do better on the evidence research.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 05:23:50 PM
She said what she said. Believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2020, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 04:41:51 PM
J70-Warren and Bernie were doing great in the polls until they decided abolishing private healthcare was a winning issue. Joe won because even Democratic Primary voters knew that the policies of the likes of Warren, Bernie, Castro and Mayor Pete were so outside the mainstream that Trump would demolish them in a General Election

Yes, that more or less is in line with what I said. Democratic voters are not hostage to the most progressive wing of their party. They don't want to lose the option of private healthcare, even if many believe that public healthcare is part of the solution to the problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 06:13:02 PM
But do you not think it's scary that 2 such prominent and supposedly main stream candidates would have such a crazy idea


Also keep  in mind, if they had joined forces (like the "moderates" did) Biden would be toast
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2020, 06:28:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 06:13:02 PM
But do you not think it's scary that 2 such prominent and supposedly main stream candidates would have such a crazy idea

Scary?

Not really. Especially as it has zero chance of ever being put into practice.

I find the actual phenomenon of private equity corporations buying up hospitals and nursing homes a lot scarier.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 06:28:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 06:13:02 PM
But do you not think it's scary that 2 such prominent and supposedly main stream candidates would have such a crazy idea

Scary?

Not really. Especially as it has zero chance of ever being put into practice.

I find the actual phenomenon of private equity corporations buying up hospitals and nursing homes a lot scarier.

Wow-it doesn't concern you that such a major policy position held by 2 of the leading Democratic candidates is supported by only 13% of registered voters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2020, 08:44:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 06:28:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 06:13:02 PM
But do you not think it's scary that 2 such prominent and supposedly main stream candidates would have such a crazy idea

Scary?

Not really. Especially as it has zero chance of ever being put into practice.

I find the actual phenomenon of private equity corporations buying up hospitals and nursing homes a lot scarier.

Wow-it doesn't concern you that such a major policy position held by 2 of the leading Democratic candidates is supported by only 13% of registered voters

Why would it bother me?

The party voters rejected those candidates, not least because of those policy positions.

Do you want me to run through some of the stuff that Republican and conservative candidates, including major contenders, have supported in the past, including recently?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on May 15, 2020, 09:06:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 06:13:02 PM
But do you not think it's scary that 2 such prominent and supposedly main stream candidates would have such a crazy idea


Also keep  in mind, if they had joined forces (like the "moderates" did) Biden would be toast

The main Republican man believes noise causes cancer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 09:56:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 08:44:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 06:28:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 06:13:02 PM
But do you not think it's scary that 2 such prominent and supposedly main stream candidates would have such a crazy idea

Scary?

Not really. Especially as it has zero chance of ever being put into practice.

I find the actual phenomenon of private equity corporations buying up hospitals and nursing homes a lot scarier.

Wow-it doesn't concern you that such a major policy position held by 2 of the leading Democratic candidates is supported by only 13% of registered voters

Why would it bother me?

The party voters rejected those candidates, not least because of those policy positions.

Do you want me to run through some of the stuff that Republican and conservative candidates, including major contenders, have supported in the past, including recently?


I guess we'll agree to disagree, but from my vantage point it's bizarre that 2 of the leading candidates in the Dem Primary hold a position on private health insurance that is almost universally rejected among by base of the party?

And while Joe ultimately prevailed (due to some back room deals) Bernie won the first 3 states and combined He and Elizabeth Warren got almost as many popular votes as Joe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 15, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PMsaying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

When does an:

anti-lies
anti-nepotism
anti-corruption
anti-treason

agenda

become an anti-Trump agenda?


How would you spot the difference Whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 15, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 15, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PMsaying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

When does an:

anti-lies
anti-nepotism
anti-corruption
anti-treason

agenda

become an anti-Trump agenda?


How would you spot the difference Whitey?

They're not my words you're quoting

That's a quote from the former editor of The NY Times
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 16, 2020, 02:46:12 AM
What would balanced coverage of Trump's presidency look like?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2020, 02:24:01 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 16, 2020, 02:46:12 AM
What would balanced coverage of Trump's presidency look like?

Never mind that a lot of the damaging stuff that Trump is doing gets more or less zero coverage. It's going to take a long time and a lot of effort to undo their assault on environmental protections, if it can even be done, especially as Mitch McConnell is methodically stacking the federal court system with all kinds of dodgy right wing characters. And where is public education going to be when Betsy DeVos gets through with it, especially if they get another term?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2020, 02:43:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 09:56:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 08:44:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 15, 2020, 06:28:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 06:13:02 PM
But do you not think it's scary that 2 such prominent and supposedly main stream candidates would have such a crazy idea

Scary?

Not really. Especially as it has zero chance of ever being put into practice.

I find the actual phenomenon of private equity corporations buying up hospitals and nursing homes a lot scarier.

Wow-it doesn't concern you that such a major policy position held by 2 of the leading Democratic candidates is supported by only 13% of registered voters

Why would it bother me?

The party voters rejected those candidates, not least because of those policy positions.

Do you want me to run through some of the stuff that Republican and conservative candidates, including major contenders, have supported in the past, including recently?


I guess we'll agree to disagree, but from my vantage point it's bizarre that 2 of the leading candidates in the Dem Primary hold a position on private health insurance that is almost universally rejected among by base of the party?

And while Joe ultimately prevailed (due to some back room deals) Bernie won the first 3 states and combined He and Elizabeth Warren got almost as many popular votes as Joe.

Luckily or unluckily, depending on your  perspective, you have to win a majority of delegates from the whole country, not just the initial primaries. Loads of candidates have flamed out after doing well early, which allowed people to take a proper look at them and weigh their options.

Ironically, and backing up the bland, centrist approach to Biden, he's actually doing all right at the moment now that he's locked in his basement, more or less out of sight, and Trump is having daily hissy fits and trying to change the subject from the outbreak and its health and economic fallout by spewing about the "worst political crime in American history!!"

This election is going to be a referendum on Trump (as all end of first term elections, of course, are). Whether a re-emerging Biden can present himself as a coherent, non-threatening, viable, moderate Democrat alternative remains to be seen.

On Biden, BTW, Politico had a piece up yesterday on Tara Reade, supported by lots of named people from her past. Doesn't paint a nice picture. Of course, even scumbags can be victims, so it doesn't mean she is lying about what she claims Biden did, but it obviously doesn't help her case. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/15/tara-reade-left-trail-of-aggrieved-acquaintances-260771 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/15/tara-reade-left-trail-of-aggrieved-acquaintances-260771)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 15, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PMsaying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

When does an:

anti-lies
anti-nepotism
anti-corruption
anti-treason

agenda

become an anti-Trump agenda?


How would you spot the difference Whitey?

They're not my words you're quoting

That's a quote from the former editor of The NY Times

The question remains.

How would you spot the difference Whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2020, 10:03:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 15, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PMsaying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

When does an:

anti-lies
anti-nepotism
anti-corruption
anti-treason

agenda

become an anti-Trump agenda?


How would you spot the difference Whitey?

They're not my words you're quoting

That's a quote from the former editor of The NY Times

The question remains.

How would you spot the difference Whitey?


Nothing to spot

Trump won fair and square and from day one they did everything in their power to undermine his legitimacy. The problem is they undermined their own credibility in the process.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2020, 10:03:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 15, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PMsaying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

When does an:

anti-lies
anti-nepotism
anti-corruption
anti-treason

agenda

become an anti-Trump agenda?


How would you spot the difference Whitey?

They're not my words you're quoting

That's a quote from the former editor of The NY Times

The question remains.

How would you spot the difference Whitey?


Nothing to spot

Trump won fair and square and from day one they did everything in their power to undermine his legitimacy. The problem is they undermined their own credibility in the process.

That is not an answer.

If a journo is writing an article that talks about lies, nepotism, corruption and Donald Trump - does that automatically make it a part of an anti-Trump agenda? Or do you judge the article on its own merits?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 17, 2020, 12:15:36 AM
Damn that media, reporting Trump's lies and making him look bad by quoting him directly. Totally undermines their credibility.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2020, 12:20:52 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2020, 10:03:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 15, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PMsaying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

When does an:

anti-lies
anti-nepotism
anti-corruption
anti-treason

agenda

become an anti-Trump agenda?


How would you spot the difference Whitey?

They're not my words you're quoting

That's a quote from the former editor of The NY Times

The question remains.

How would you spot the difference Whitey?


Nothing to spot

Trump won fair and square and from day one they did everything in their power to undermine his legitimacy. The problem is they undermined their own credibility in the process.

That is not an answer.

If a journo is writing an article that talks about lies, nepotism, corruption and Donald Trump - does that automatically make it a part of an anti-Trump agenda? Or do you judge the article on its own merits?

So thats all the legitimate stuff they should have reported on

My issue is with the lies, exaggerations, double standards, fabrications, bias, and one sidedness that puts them at the same level as fox news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 17, 2020, 01:16:08 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2020, 10:03:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 15, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PMsaying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

When does an:

anti-lies
anti-nepotism
anti-corruption
anti-treason

agenda

become an anti-Trump agenda?


How would you spot the difference Whitey?

They're not my words you're quoting

That's a quote from the former editor of The NY Times

The question remains.

How would you spot the difference Whitey?


Nothing to spot

Trump won fair and square and from day one they did everything in their power to undermine his legitimacy. The problem is they undermined their own credibility in the process.

That is not an answer.

If a journo is writing an article that talks about lies, nepotism, corruption and Donald Trump - does that automatically make it a part of an anti-Trump agenda? Or do you judge the article on its own merits?
Sure when has that poster ever answered a question?  ;D

The failing of the US media, especially the so called "mainstream liberal media", as regards reporting on Trump is that they have been way, way too soft on him, with only very rare honourable exceptions like Rachel Maddow. They far too often frame stories to his advantage and stay away from the stories that matter in favour of reporting on horse race nonsense and soap opera intrigue.

That cannot be emphasised enough.

Trump and his cronies are destroying the US from the inside on behalf of a hostile power, Russia, and a cabal of anarcho-capitalist psychopaths like the Koch/s and Robert Mercer.

There is no way any media could ever be too hard on that.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 17, 2020, 01:38:08 AM
https://www.salon.com/2020/05/16/obamagate-and-lock-her-up-pointing-the-way-toward-heil-trump/

"Obamagate" and "Lock her up": Pointing the way toward "Heil Trump"

It's not just a chant at Trump's rallies or lame wordplay in his tweets. It's his call to fascist rule

LUCIAN K. TRUSCOTT IV
MAY 16, 2020 12:00PM (UTC)
You know someone's in a real panic when they start running in circles, and that's what Donald Trump has been doing for the past week. He started off last Sunday with an epic tweetstorm, 126 of them in all, the third-highest total for one day in his presidency, according to FactBa.se, which keeps track of Trump's statements. "Obamagate!" he tweeted, following that one with "Because it was Obamagate, and he and Sleepy Joe led the charge. The most corrupt administration in history!"

That presaged by 24 hours his now-famous exchange with Philip Rucker of the Washington Post in the Rose Garden, when Rucker asked him, "What crime, exactly, are you accusing President Obama of committing?"

"Obamagate," Trump replied, refusing to define the "crime" or provide any specific evidence. So Rucker followed up: "What is the crime, exactly, that you're accusing him of?" Trump shot him what passed for an angry look: "You know what the crime is," Trump answered. "The crime is very obvious to everybody."

What was Obamagate, pundits asked each other with puzzled looks on their faces, as the week wore on? They should have known that it would have something to do with Michael Flynn, Trump's former national security adviser, who lasted all of 24 days in the job before being fired for lying to Vice President Mike Pence about his phone call with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak in late December of 2016. Flynn was later charged with lying to the FBI, pled guilty twice, and has been awaiting sentencing for more than two years. Trump's Department of Justice, under the direction of Large Lickspittle Bill Barr, moved to drop the charges against Flynn last week, which generated a letter signed by 2,000 former Justice Department officials denouncing the motion filed by Little Lickspittle Timothy Shea, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia. The judge in the case will hold hearings on the matter and has not yet issued a ruling.

There is a perfect symmetry to the involvement of Michael Flynn in Trump's latest attempt to deflect attention from his inept handling of the coronavirus crisis, which has caused the infections of more than 1.4 million Americans and the deaths of more than 87,000 nationwide. Flynn enjoyed a singular distinction during the transition between the Obama and Trump administrations, besides his coziness with Russian bankers and ambassadors. Obama gave Trump only one piece of personal advice during their private meeting in the White House after Trump was elected: Whatever you do, don't hire Michael Flynn. For anything. Ever.

But Trump loved Flynn. It had been Flynn who led the delegates at the 2016 Republican National Convention in chanting "lock her up" after mentioning the alleged criminal behavior of Hillary Clinton as secretary of state. As with Trump's use of "Obamagate" as a shorthand for Obama's alleged corruption while in office, Flynn's allegations against Clinton were equally vague and shorn of specificity. Trump had already been encouraging his crowds to chant "lock her up" at his campaign rallies in 2016, and has continued the practice ever since. I don't know of a single rally Trump has held since he's been in office when the crowd didn't break into the "lock her up" chant, with Trump allowing the fascist bellowing to wash over him as he stands at the podium, smiling with approval at the crowd.

I use the words "fascist bellowing" on purpose, because that's what it is: Trump supporters at public events and rallies loudly endorsing official lawlessness. It's not a funny joke or clever verbiage. Trump and his followers have been routinely advocating the jailing of Trump's political opponents without an investigation, criminal charges, trial or conviction by a jury of their peers. This is the way fascist dictators dispose of their political opposition. Putin has jailed opponents of his regime. He has also arrested wealthy businessmen whose enterprises he wanted to seize, and of course he has ordered the murder of Russian citizens who he felt betrayed him.

Trump himself circled back around to calling for the jailing of his political enemies for unspecified crimes on Thursday morning in an interview with Maria Bartiromo on the Fox Business Network. Trump called the "unmasking" of Flynn "the greatest political crime in the history of our country." 


He continued: "If I were a Democrat instead of a Republican, I think everybody would have been in jail a long time ago ... it is a disgrace what's happened. This is the greatest political scam, hoax in the history of our country." To set the record straight, that's ludicrous and untrue. Flynn's "unmasking" was a routine national security procedure during which officials in the Obama administration were given Flynn's name as the person who was caught on NSA wiretaps talking to Kislyak during the Trump transition, when Flynn was serving as an adviser to Trump on national security and international relations. Included among the Obama officials were Trump's bete noire, former FBI director James Comey, and Vice President Joe Biden.

Another fascist dictator who made use of extrajudicial imprisonment of political enemies was Adolf Hitler. He didn't bother with leading "Lock her up" chants at his rallies. He just locked up his political opponents and racial and ethnic and religious enemies in concentration camps where they were executed or perished from disease and starvation. His followers rewarded him at political rallies by chanting "Heil Hitler." It was the all-purpose approbation of Hitler's leadership of Nazi Germany, a mass public endorsement of everything he did, including locking up his political opponents. That's what "Lock her up" has become for Trump.

Trump's campaign people are already talking about holding rallies as Trump blackmails the states by pushing his "open up" madness. "Lock her up" chant doubles down on hatred for Hillary Clinton, or these days for Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden, for those in love with Trump, by loudly calling for his political opponents to be imprisoned without trial for unspecified crimes. If you don't believe me, listen to the chant the next time he holds a rally. Trump's followers are both swearing allegiance and saluting him. "Lock her up" is Trump's "Heil Hitler."


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2020, 01:44:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 17, 2020, 01:16:08 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2020, 10:03:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 15, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PMsaying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

When does an:

anti-lies
anti-nepotism
anti-corruption
anti-treason

agenda

become an anti-Trump agenda?


How would you spot the difference Whitey?

They're not my words you're quoting

That's a quote from the former editor of The NY Times

The question remains.

How would you spot the difference Whitey?


Nothing to spot

Trump won fair and square and from day one they did everything in their power to undermine his legitimacy. The problem is they undermined their own credibility in the process.

That is not an answer.

If a journo is writing an article that talks about lies, nepotism, corruption and Donald Trump - does that automatically make it a part of an anti-Trump agenda? Or do you judge the article on its own merits?
Sure when has that poster ever answered a question?  ;D

The failing of the US media, especially the so called "mainstream liberal media", as regards reporting on Trump is that they have been way, way too soft on him, with only very rare honourable exceptions like Rachel Maddow. They far too often frame stories to his advantage and stay away from the stories that matter in favour of reporting on horse race nonsense and soap opera intrigue.

That cannot be emphasised enough.

Trump and his cronies are destroying the US from the inside on behalf of a hostile power, Russia, and a cabal of anarcho-capitalist psychopaths like the Koch/s and Robert Mercer.

There is no way any media could ever be too hard on that.

Keep yer heads stuck in the sand and Trump will win a second term

I have given you a direct quote from the former editor of the NY Times but of course she doesnt know what shes talking about (because she was accused of plagarism)

Heres an article from the left leaning Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/media-must-learn-covington-catholic-story/581035/

I particularly like the closing paragraph

"I am prompted to issue my own ethics reminders for The New York Times. Here they are: You were partly responsible for the election of Trump because you are the most influential newspaper in the country, and you are not fair or impartial. Millions of Americans believe you hate them and that you will casually harm them. Two years ago, they fought back against you, and they won. If Trump wins again, you will once again have played a small but important role in that victory."

But, as always........believe whatever you want, its a free country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 17, 2020, 01:52:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 17, 2020, 01:16:08 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2020, 10:03:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 15, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 15, 2020, 12:23:11 PMsaying its "unmistakably anti-Trump" agenda risks damaging its credibility.

When does an:

anti-lies
anti-nepotism
anti-corruption
anti-treason

agenda

become an anti-Trump agenda?


How would you spot the difference Whitey?

They're not my words you're quoting

That's a quote from the former editor of The NY Times

The question remains.

How would you spot the difference Whitey?


Nothing to spot

Trump won fair and square and from day one they did everything in their power to undermine his legitimacy. The problem is they undermined their own credibility in the process.

That is not an answer.

If a journo is writing an article that talks about lies, nepotism, corruption and Donald Trump - does that automatically make it a part of an anti-Trump agenda? Or do you judge the article on its own merits?
Sure when has that poster ever answered a question?  ;D

The failing of the US media, especially the so called "mainstream liberal media", as regards reporting on Trump is that they have been way, way too soft on him, with only very rare honourable exceptions like Rachel Maddow. They far too often frame stories to his advantage and stay away from the stories that matter in favour of reporting on horse race nonsense and soap opera intrigue.

That cannot be emphasised enough.

Trump and his cronies are destroying the US from the inside on behalf of a hostile power, Russia, and a cabal of anarcho-capitalist psychopaths like the Koch/s and Robert Mercer.

There is no way any media could ever be too hard on that.

LOL Rachel fvckin Maddow.......shes the Rush Limbaugh of the left......a clown

did you ever see the episode when she thought she had Trumps tax returns?  Cringe worthy

You know she must be bad if the Guardian is laughing at her

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/28/trump-russia-investigation-mueller-liberal-media-rachel-maddow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 17, 2020, 05:51:16 AM
Whitey.. talking to the leg of a chair would get a more rational response. Trying to debate you in a rational way is beyond any rational being.  You are full of **IT . The great "non Trumper" defender of Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 17, 2020, 10:50:19 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 17, 2020, 05:51:16 AM
Whitey.. talking to the leg of a chair would get a more rational response. Trying to debate you in a rational way is beyond any rational being.  You are full of **IT . The great "non Trumper" defender of Trump.
No wonder Clint Eastwood talked to that chair at the Republican convention that time - it was by far the most intelligent thing there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 18, 2020, 01:37:05 AM
Which one of these is Obamagate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V9cNKygNEI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 18, 2020, 01:37:05 AM
Which one of these is Obamagate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V9cNKygNEI

Holy f**k.

I'd forgotten so many of those! I can just imagine the Trumpsters sitting yelling at the tv, frothing at the mouth, as Obama wore the bike helmet or tan suit or had the marines holding umbrella. Or didn't put ketchup on his burger like a real 'murican. Dijon mustard!!! ;D

Remember that website that totted up Obama's golfing?

Someone should do a side-by-side of Trump and Obama being "unpresidential".

I do have to give them one though - the salute with the coffee was poor form.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Ketchup is one of the few useful things that America has given the world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
The sc**bag apple doesn't fall too far from the sc**bag tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/bvR4nxnb/EYTfrm8-Wk-AEFKfz.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 05:16:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
The sc**bag apple doesn't fall too far from the sc**bag tree

Far more than I'd trust Donald Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 05:34:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
The sc**bag apple doesn't fall too far from the sc**bag tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/bvR4nxnb/EYTfrm8-Wk-AEFKfz.jpg)

When you're dealing with people who attempted a coup against a legitimately elected President, I guess you have to fight fire with fire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
Both sons of the POTUS insinuating his election opponent is a paedophile  =/= "fight fire with fire".

There are no depths to your f**king stupidity. 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 05:46:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
Both sons of the POTUS insinuating his election opponent is a paedophile  =/= "fight fire with fire".

There are no depths to your f**king stupidity.

Well the MSM broadcast far and wide that Brett Kavanaugh has drugged and gang raped dozens of women (without a shred of evidence-I might add)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5407289/brett-kavanaugh-julie-swetnick-congress/%3famp=true

"There's no way that we can vote on this nomination Friday in good conscience," said Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal, who called Swetnick's allegations "gut-wrenching." "What [these allegations] portray is a pattern of vile, predatory sexual attacks. There's no way that the United States Senate should vote on this nomination without a full fledged investigation

Not so nice, when the boot is on the other foot, is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on May 18, 2020, 05:50:20 PM
A Google Images search for "Creepy Joe" says it all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 05:57:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
Both sons of the POTUS insinuating his election opponent is a paedophile  =/= "fight fire with fire".
Projection from the Trumps again - accuse your opponent of being what you yourself are.

Trump is very a likely a paedophile and was best buddies with Epstein for many years.

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf

7. Plaintiff was subject to acts of rape, sexual misconduct, criminal sexual acts,
sexual abuse, forcible touching, assault, battery, intentional and reckless infliction of emotional
distress, duress, false imprisonment, and threats of death and/or serious bodily injury by the
Defendants that took place at several parties during the summer months of 1994. The parties
were held by Defendant Epstein at a New York City residence that was being used by Defendant
Epstein at 9 E. 71st St. in Manhattan. During this period, Plaintiff was a minor of age 13 and
was legally incapable under New York law of consenting to sexual intercourse and the other
sexual contacts detailed herein. NY Penal L § 130.05(3)(a). The rapes in the first, second, and
third degrees; sexual misconduct; criminal sexual acts in the first, second, and third degrees;
sexual abuse in the first, second, and third degrees; and forcible touching (and, on information
Case 1:16-cv-07673-RA Document 4 Filed 10/03/16 Page 2 of 10
3
and belief, predatory sexual assault) detailed herein are unlawful under New York law, e.g., NY
Penal L § 130.20-130.52, and 130.55-130.65 (and, on information and belief, 130.95) and
constitute the torts of, inter alia, assault, battery, false imprisonment, and intentional or reckless
infliction of emotional distress, including threats of force and serious bodily harm, under New
York law. In addition, 18 U.S. Code § 2255 provides Plaintiff with a civil remedy for personal
injuries because Plaintiff, while a minor, was a victim of violations of 18 U.S.C. §§ 1591, 2421,
2422(b), and 2423(a) and she suffered personal injury as a result of such violations. Declaration
of Plaintiff Jane Doe, Exhibit A hereto; Declaration of Tiffany Doe, Exhibit B hereto;
Declaration of Joan Doe, Exhibit C hereto; Jane Doe, Tiffany Doe, and Joan Doe are each
pseudonyms as each woman wishes anonymity. Tiffany Doe, a witness, was an employee of
Defendant Epstein. Exh. B. Joan Doe, a witness, was a childhood classmate of Plaintiff who, in
the 1994-95 school year, was told by Plaintiff that Plaintiff was subject to sexual contact by the
Defendants at parties in New York City during the summer of 1994. Exh. C.
8. Courts have discretion to allow proceeding anonymously where the need for
privacy outweighs the public's interest in knowing their identity and any prejudice to the
defendants. Sealed Plaintiff v. Sealed Defendant, 537 F.3d 185, 189 (2d Cir. 2008). This
litigation involves matters that are highly sensitive and of a personal nature, and identification of
Plaintiff would pose a risk of retaliatory physical harm to her and to others. Exh. A. All of the
ten factors that the Second Circuit articulated as relevant to this analysis favor anonymity,
especially factors 1-4, 7, and 10 (e.g., factors one and two: "whether the litigation involves
matters that are 'highly sensitive and [of a] personal nature,'" and "'whether identification poses
a risk of retaliatory physical or mental harm to the ... party [seeking to proceed anonymously] or
Case 1:16-cv-07673-RA Document 4 Filed 10/03/16 Page 3 of 10
4
even more critically, to innocent non-parties'".), or are neutral with respect to anonymity.
Protecting Plaintiff's anonymity is also appropriate as she is a rape victim.
9. Plaintiff was enticed by promises of money and a modeling career to attend a
series of parties, with other similarly situated minor females, held at a New York City residence
that was being used by Defendant Jeffrey Epstein. At least four of the parties were attended by
Defendant Trump. Exhs. A and B. On information and belief, by this time in 1994, Defendant
Trump had known Defendant Epstein for seven years (New York, 10/28/02, "'I've known Jeff for
fifteen years. Terrific guy,'' Trump booms from a speakerphone. 'He's a lot of fun to be with. It
is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger
side. No doubt about it -- Jeffrey enjoys his social life.'"), and knew that Plaintiff was then just
13 years old. Exhs. A and B.
10. Defendant Trump initiated sexual contact with Plaintiff at four different parties.
On the fourth and final sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant Trump tied Plaintiff
to a bed, exposed himself to Plaintiff, and then proceeded to forcibly rape Plaintiff. During the
course of this savage sexual attack, Plaintiff loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but
with no effect. Defendant Trump responded to Plaintiff's pleas by violently striking Plaintiff in
the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted. Exhs. A and
B.
11. Immediately following this rape, Defendant Trump threatened Plaintiff that, were
she ever to reveal any of the details of the sexual and physical abuse of her by Defendant Trump,
Plaintiff and her family would be physically harmed if not killed. Exhs. A and B.
12. Defendant Epstein had sexual contact with Plaintiff at two of the parties. The
second sexual encounter with Defendant Epstein took place after Plaintiff had been raped by
Defendant Trump. Defendant Epstein forced himself upon Plaintiff and proceeded to rape her
anally and vaginally despite her loud pleas to stop. Defendant Epstein then attempted to strike
Plaintiff about the head with his closed fists while he angrily screamed at Plaintiff that he,
Defendant Epstein, rather than Defendant Trump, should have been the one who took Plaintiff's
virginity, before Plaintiff finally managed to break away from Defendant Epstein. Exhs. A and
B
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Well said Sid-like the Democrats accusing Trump of colluding with Russians, when they're  the ones colluding with Russia by spreading disinformation from Russian Intelligence via the dossier

It's a very effective tactic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 06:03:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
There are no depths to your f**king stupidity.
He just proved it again.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 06:07:46 PM
Like shooting fish in a barrel
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 06:28:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 05:34:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
The sc**bag apple doesn't fall too far from the sc**bag tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/bvR4nxnb/EYTfrm8-Wk-AEFKfz.jpg)

When you're dealing with people who attempted a coup against a legitimately elected President, I guess you have to fight fire with fire

What a pile of shit.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 06:32:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Well said Sid-like the Democrats accusing Trump of colluding with Russians, when they're  the ones colluding with Russia by spreading disinformation from Russian Intelligence via the dossier

It's a very effective tactic

Except that 1. the Russians WERE doing everything they could to help Trump; 2. he bent over backwards, including at the expense of his own government agencies, to side with Putin at every opportunity; 3. his campaign met with Russian representatives hoping to get dirt, while he called publicly for the Russians to release the Clinton emails; 4. they did everything they could to derail and obstruct the investigation once it got going.

It absolutely SHOULD have been investigated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 05:46:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
Both sons of the POTUS insinuating his election opponent is a paedophile  =/= "fight fire with fire".

There are no depths to your f**king stupidity.

Well the MSM broadcast far and wide that Brett Kavanaugh has drugged and gang raped dozens of women (without a shred of evidence-I might add)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5407289/brett-kavanaugh-julie-swetnick-congress/%3famp=true

"There's no way that we can vote on this nomination Friday in good conscience," said Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal, who called Swetnick's allegations "gut-wrenching." "What [these allegations] portray is a pattern of vile, predatory sexual attacks. There's no way that the United States Senate should vote on this nomination without a full fledged investigation

Not so nice, when the boot is on the other foot, is it?

I thought they reported an allegation?

Has someone come forward and alleged that Biden likes to get up close and personal with children?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 18, 2020, 06:40:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 05:34:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
The sc**bag apple doesn't fall too far from the sc**bag tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/bvR4nxnb/EYTfrm8-Wk-AEFKfz.jpg)

When you're dealing with people who attempted a coup against a legitimately elected President, I guess you have to fight fire with fire

Like something I would read from a Trump bot on twitter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 06:44:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 06:32:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Well said Sid-like the Democrats accusing Trump of colluding with Russians, when they're  the ones colluding with Russia by spreading disinformation from Russian Intelligence via the dossier

It's a very effective tactic

Except that 1. the Russians WERE doing everything they could to help Trump; 2. he bent over backwards, including at the expense of his own government agencies, to side with Putin at every opportunity; 3. his campaign met with Russian representatives hoping to get dirt, while he called publicly for the Russians to release the Clinton emails; 4. they did everything they could to derail and obstruct the investigation once it got going.

It absolutely SHOULD have been investigated.
Trump has been a Soviet/Russian asset since 1984 at least. Trump Tower was a front for Russian money laundering and his other properties were the same. You don't do business with the Russian mafia and not become their asset. And the Russian state and the Russian mafia are indivisible.

Trump has used Mafia style intimidation tactics for decades, the sc**bag Roy Cohn trained him well. There's a reason networks and major newspapers mostly stay away from digging into his financial past and Russian criminal ties. It's because i) most journalists themselves come from privileged white backgrounds which inures them to the real of effect of this stuff, ii) because they are careerists first and foremost and iii) because they're terrified.

In Russia, journalists who inquire too much get murdered. America is on the verge of the same thing.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 07:02:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 06:44:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 06:32:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Well said Sid-like the Democrats accusing Trump of colluding with Russians, when they're  the ones colluding with Russia by spreading disinformation from Russian Intelligence via the dossier

It's a very effective tactic

Except that 1. the Russians WERE doing everything they could to help Trump; 2. he bent over backwards, including at the expense of his own government agencies, to side with Putin at every opportunity; 3. his campaign met with Russian representatives hoping to get dirt, while he called publicly for the Russians to release the Clinton emails; 4. they did everything they could to derail and obstruct the investigation once it got going.

It absolutely SHOULD have been investigated.
Trump has been a Soviet/Russian asset since 1984 at least. Trump Tower was a front for Russian money laundering and his other properties were the same. You don't do business with the Russian mafia and not become their asset. And the Russian state and the Russian mafia are indivisible.

Trump has used Mafia style intimidation tactics for decades, the sc**bag Roy Cohn trained him well. There's a reason networks and major newspapers mostly stay away from digging into his financial past and Russian criminal ties. It's because i) most journalists themselves come from privileged white backgrounds which inures them to the real of effect of this stuff, ii) because they are careerists first and foremost and iii) because they're terrified.

In Russia, journalists who inquire too much get murdered. America is on the verge of the same thing.

Okay Boomer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 07:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 05:46:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
Both sons of the POTUS insinuating his election opponent is a paedophile  =/= "fight fire with fire".

There are no depths to your f**king stupidity.

Well the MSM broadcast far and wide that Brett Kavanaugh has drugged and gang raped dozens of women (without a shred of evidence-I might add)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5407289/brett-kavanaugh-julie-swetnick-congress/%3famp=true

"There's no way that we can vote on this nomination Friday in good conscience," said Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal, who called Swetnick's allegations "gut-wrenching." "What [these allegations] portray is a pattern of vile, predatory sexual attacks. There's no way that the United States Senate should vote on this nomination without a full fledged investigation

Not so nice, when the boot is on the other foot, is it?

I thought they reported an allegation?

Has someone come forward and alleged that Biden likes to get up close and personal with children?

J70....I'm disappointed in you that you haven't memorized the playbook

Just repeat false allegations often enough until people start believing them

Worked very well for you guys with the Russian Collusion Delusion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 18, 2020, 07:45:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
The sc**bag apple doesn't fall too far from the sc**bag tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/bvR4nxnb/EYTfrm8-Wk-AEFKfz.jpg)
joe wouldn't make it out of the school car park .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 07:56:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 07:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 05:46:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 18, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
Both sons of the POTUS insinuating his election opponent is a paedophile  =/= "fight fire with fire".

There are no depths to your f**king stupidity.

Well the MSM broadcast far and wide that Brett Kavanaugh has drugged and gang raped dozens of women (without a shred of evidence-I might add)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5407289/brett-kavanaugh-julie-swetnick-congress/%3famp=true

"There's no way that we can vote on this nomination Friday in good conscience," said Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal, who called Swetnick's allegations "gut-wrenching." "What [these allegations] portray is a pattern of vile, predatory sexual attacks. There's no way that the United States Senate should vote on this nomination without a full fledged investigation

Not so nice, when the boot is on the other foot, is it?

I thought they reported an allegation?

Has someone come forward and alleged that Biden likes to get up close and personal with children?

J70....I'm disappointed in you that you haven't memorized the playbook

Just repeat false allegations often enough until people start believing them

Worked very well for you guys with the Russian Collusion Delusion

WTF are you on about?

Trump's playmate girlfriend lawyer (the same girlfriend Trump's erstwhile trusted fixer, Cohen, went to prison for for campaign finance violations for buying her silence in the run-up to the election)  came out with an additional allegation on top of the credible one already in the public sphere about Kavanaugh. Of course it was news. How wouldn't it be?

As for the "Russian Collusion Delusion", I repeat:

1. the Russians WERE doing everything they could to help Trump; 2. he bent over backwards, including at the expense of his own government agencies, to side with Putin at every opportunity; 3. his campaign met with Russian representatives hoping to get dirt, while he called publicly for the Russians to release the Clinton emails; 4. they did everything they could to derail and obstruct the investigation once it got going.

And let's not forget that Trump's own justice dept hired Mueller, a man with a GOP background and solid standing across parties until he started asking awkward questions.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 08:06:05 PM
Believe what you want

Mueller found nothing of any substance

The dossier was a complete fabrication

Trumps was illegally surveilled by rogue FBI operatives who fraudulently obtained FISA warrants
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 08:38:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 08:06:05 PM
Believe what you want

Mueller found nothing of any substance

The dossier was a complete fabrication

Trumps was illegally surveilled by rogue FBI operatives who fraudulently obtained FISA warrants

And you believe what YOU want.

I will say its hard to find anything of substance when the full power of the presidency and the ruling party is standing in your way, obstructing at every step, and the man himself wasn't even allowed to testify by his handlers because they knew he'd lie his arse off every two minutes and get done for perjury (I'll bet Bill Clinton was looking on, whistfully thinking, if only I could have gone down that road!).

Regardless of that, even if things had progressed as they should have and Trump was completely cleared (he wasn't), that does NOT mean that an investigation wasn't warranted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 09:23:52 PM
J70

The whole lot of them are fvckin pathetic.....at this point I really don't care who gets elected (and I actually do like Uncle Joe)

How you guys can sit by and say nothing about Schiff and the stunts he has pulled is very disappointing

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 18, 2020, 09:25:49 PM
The Trump campaign has upped the ante in the war against facts with "TRUTH OVER FACTS"

https://www.thetruthoverfacts.com/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 09:54:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 07:56:14 PM

WTF are you on about?

Trump's playmate girlfriend lawyer (the same girlfriend Trump's erstwhile trusted fixer, Cohen, went to prison for for campaign finance violations for buying her silence in the run-up to the election)  came out with an additional allegation on top of the credible one already in the public sphere about Kavanaugh. Of course it was news. How wouldn't it be?

As for the "Russian Collusion Delusion", I repeat:

1. the Russians WERE doing everything they could to help Trump; 2. he bent over backwards, including at the expense of his own government agencies, to side with Putin at every opportunity; 3. his campaign met with Russian representatives hoping to get dirt, while he called publicly for the Russians to release the Clinton emails; 4. they did everything they could to derail and obstruct the investigation once it got going.

And let's not forget that Trump's own justice dept hired Mueller, a man with a GOP background and solid standing across parties until he started asking awkward questions.

Barr was brought in to cut the Mueller investigation short and did so, like the dutiful corrupt fixer he is. Mueller's performance during it was f**king terrible though, the inquiry was clearly never meant to go anywhere. Even at that, what was revealed in it was a straight up resigning matter for Trump, among a long, long list of them.

Fascists like Trump deliberately engage in things that would be 100% resigning matters for anybody else - matters that would have anybody in prison - it's a demonstration of total shamelessness and a shameless grab for absolute power - to project invincibility and to make opposition give up hope of removing him.

The evidence of Trump being a Russian asset is not so much smoke as a raging fire like the one on 9/11. Believe what's in front of your eyes.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 10:08:07 PM
Why do you think Samantha Powers lied about unmasking Flynn when asked before Congress?

If her memory is that fvckin bad, she must have Alzheimer's and should be committed to a
Long term care facility
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 10:12:00 PM
Trump says he's been taking hydroxychloroquine for a week and a half now.

I somehow doubt he has.

The point of this is to distract from crime with ludicrous spectacle, to create an alternative reality world where public debate and the chance for public debate is distorted and destroyed. This has been his daily strategy all along - a whole silo of dead cats, thrown daily.

Trump is not mentally ill. It's a very clever strategy. It's the classic tactic of a dictator, or in Trump's case a wannabe dictator - and that's exactly what he wants to be, because, like Putin, having total power is the only way he can ensure he stays out of prison.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 10:23:25 PM
HBO's "Kill Chain" is a very good documentary - anybody who thinks the Republicans don't have a plan to rig the election with the help of their Russian friends is deluding themselves. The machines used in US voting are hackable from outside and the Republicans have refused point blank to enact any election security measures. I think there's very reasonable grounds too to suspect the 2016 election results may have been falsified in Trump's favour.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/mar/26/kill-chain-hbo-election-hacking-documentary

In the documentary Kill Chain, the weaknesses of America's basic election infrastructure are laid bare

Adrian Horton

Even as much of America grinds to a halt, coronavirus has yet to derail the date of the 2020 election. Which introduces a perhaps underestimated terror, as explained in one of the more deceptively scary documentaries to drop in recent weeks: the vulnerable voting machine. That seemingly benign piece of equipment – the hardware of American democracy – is, as several experts explain in HBO's Kill Chain: The Cyber War on America's Elections, nothing more than an obsolete computer. And these machines' vulnerabilities to hacking are "terrifying", Sarah Teale, co-director along with Simon Ardizzone and Russell Michaels, told the Guardian. America's current election infrastructure is, as Kill Chain explains, a prescription for disaster – an outdated, willfully naive system no more prepared for attack than four years ago.

Like After Truth: Disinformation and the Cost of Fake News, another HBO documentary which premiered last week and focused on the threat of disinformation on American democracy, Kill Chain re-examines foreign interference in the 2016 election with critical and scientific distance. The film follows the liabilities of the American democratic system even further than fake news, to its basic infrastructure: the machines in poll booths across the country, the very method through which votes are tallied, the databases in which voter data – name, address, eligibility – are stored.

The process of voting in the United States is idiosyncratic and often chaotic, but no matter how each polling station is managed, the vast majority rely on electronic machines produced by three companies with removable hardware such as USB flash drives or memory cards. Individual incidences of alleged voting malpractice – for example, the purge of 340,000 voters, mostly people of color, from the Georgia rolls in 2018 – are thus part of a pattern of election vulnerabilities across the country known in cyberwarfare as a kill chain, as the voting security expert and veteran hacker Harri Hursti explains in the film. Most Americans vaguely know of Russian interference in 2016, but Kill Chain offers forensics on specific events in this pattern: the scanning and examining of state election registration databases; the hacking of the Election Assistance Commission, in which an unknown Russian actor accessed and sold information from a federal database on election technology throughout the country. Teale interviews a young man in India known online as "Cyberzeist", who hacked into an Alaskan vote counting computer in 2016 and claimed to be able to alter votes and voter data.

Hursti, who is originally from Finland, has been studying weaknesses in the American election system for more than 15 years. He first appeared on HBO in 2006, in Teale's documentary Hacking Democracy; in a clip replayed in Kill Chain, a young and somewhat smug Hursti shocks the supervisor of elections in Leon county, Florida, when he easily hacks the county's Diebold voting machine with just a tampered memory card. Hursti realized then that "this is way worse than I would've ever believed", he told the Guardian. But 15 years later, little has changed; the Diebold machines are still in use in 20 states. "If somebody would try to explain to me everything I have seen and experienced and learned myself, I wouldn't believe it," Hursti said, characterizing America's election infrastructure as "ridiculously broken".

"We started pitching this film [in 2016] because nothing has really changed since 2005," Teale said. Back then, the machines' producers brushed off criticism as slander. But in 2017, Hursti could purchase an AccuVote TSx, one of the most common machines in the country, from an Ohio warehouse for $75 to test its hackability. The machine became part of the Voting Village, an initiative Hursti co-leads at the hacker conference DefCon, in which participants can attempt to hack various models of voting machines in use in the United States. In 2019's conference, all were found to be easily hackable.

"Adversaries are fast to adapt," said Hursti, who laid out the underlying issue as one of pace: "If you take the most magnificent hack you can imagine today – six months down the road, it is just a good hack. And two years later, it's just average." Voting machines, meanwhile, are kept in service for decades; a new "secure" batch purchased for $107m by the state of Georgia came installed with dead-on-arrival Windows 7, said Hursti, "so you see how hopelessly this conversation is outdated". And until recently, there were no cybersecurity experts on staff at the machines' manufacturers, an oversight Teale called "mind-blowing".

"I hope ordinary Americans will come to the understanding that if any part of the election was connected to the internet it is vulnerable, and that these machines are vulnerable to hacking," said Teale. Both Teale and Hursti are concerned with recent confidence in new measures such as ballot-marking machines or individual bar codes – both of which put yet another computer, and thus another hacking vulnerability, between the voter and the vote. "If they cannot see how they voted, if there isn't a piece of paper with that clearly on it, it can be changed," said Teale.

But Kill Chain also offers some areas of promise, especially in the form of paper ballots, which present a clear trail of evidence, and mandatory risk-limiting audits in which a random, small yet statistically significant sample of the votes are hand-counted to ensure an uncompromised process. And the film includes interviews with three senators – Democrats Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Mark Warner Virginia and Republican James Lankford of Oklahoma – who are awake to the vulnerabilities of America's elections and the risk of another attack in 2020. Klobuchar and Lankford co-sponsored the Secure Elections Act, a bipartisan bill which would require states to keep back-up paper ballots and conduct the risk-limit audit. The measure has not passed Congress; the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, a Republican from Kentucky, has refused to bring it to the floor, citing lack of need.

Both Teale and Hursti maintain that it's not all reason to despair. Teale encourages insisting on paper voting at individual polling stations and advocating for mail-in ballots. And above all, said Hursti, vote. "Voting apathy is as bad a problem – nothing in this should be discouraging you to vote." And vote all the way down the ballot, which usually gets less attention and votes and is thus easier to rig – "that's where the money and motivation for local adversaries are," said Hursti. And if you really care, get involved as a poll worker. "Right now, the population of poll workers is very old and they're not technologically savvy," he said. "They need help."

Even in the context of a pandemic, Teale said, Americans should wonder how we're going to pick who will lead the country in the next crisis. "How are we going to vote in the primaries, and how are we going to vote in November?" she said. "I think we should all be pushing on our election officials to be thinking ahead."

Kill Chain: The Cyber War on America's elections will premiere on HBO on 26 March and in the UK at a later date
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 09:23:52 PM
J70

The whole lot of them are fvckin pathetic.....at this point I really don't care who gets elected (and I actually do like Uncle Joe)

How you guys can sit by and say nothing about Schiff and the stunts he has pulled is very disappointing

What did Schiff supposedly do?

(honest question - I'm not really watching news these days beyond reading the latest COVID updates and reading this place now and then. Too busy with work, homeschooling and childcare. I have seen an occasional "shifty Schiff" headline, but I don't generally click on loaded bait like that)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 11:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 09:23:52 PM
J70

The whole lot of them are fvckin pathetic.....at this point I really don't care who gets elected (and I actually do like Uncle Joe)

How you guys can sit by and say nothing about Schiff and the stunts he has pulled is very disappointing

What did Schiff supposedly do?

(honest question - I'm not really watching news these days beyond reading the latest COVID updates and reading this place now and then. Too busy with work, homeschooling and childcare. I have seen an occasional "shifty Schiff" headline, but I don't generally click on loaded bait like that)

All the Adam Schiff Transcripts
Newly released documents show he knew all along that there was no proof of Russia-Trump collusion.

By The Editorial Board
May 12, 2020 7:29 pm ET
Rep. Adam Schiff on Jan. 28.
Rep. Adam Schiff on Jan. 28.
PHOTO: JACQUELYN MARTIN/ASSOCIATED PRESS

Americans expect that politicians will lie, but sometimes the examples are so brazen that they deserve special notice. Newly released Congressional testimony shows that Adam Schiff spread falsehoods shamelessly about Russia and Donald Trump for three years even as his own committee gathered contrary evidence.

The House Intelligence Committee last week released 57 transcripts of interviews it conducted in its investigation into Russia's meddling in the 2016 election. The committee probe started in January 2017 under then-Chair Devin Nunes and concluded in March 2018 with a report finding no evidence that the Trump campaign conspired with the Kremlin. Most of the transcripts were ready for release long ago, but Mr. Schiff oddly refused to release them after he became chairman in 2019. He only released them last week when the White House threatened to do it first.

Now we know why. From the earliest days of the collusion narrative, Mr. Schiff insisted that he had evidence proving the plot. In March 2017 on MSNBC, Mr. Schiff teased that he couldn't "go into particulars, but there is more than circumstantial evidence now."

In December 2017 he told CNN that collusion was a fact: "The Russians offered help, the campaign accepted help. The Russians gave help and the President made full use of that help." In April 2018, Mr. Schiff released his response to Mr. Nunes's report, stating that its finding of no collusion "was unsupported by the facts and the investigative record."

None of this was true, and Mr. Schiff knew it. In July 2017, here's what former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told Mr. Schiff and his colleagues: "I never saw any direct empirical evidence that the Trump campaign or someone in it was plotting/conspiring with the Russians to meddle with the election." Three months later, former Obama Attorney General Loretta Lynch agreed that while she'd seen "concerning" information, "I don't recall anything being briefed up to me." Former Deputy AG Sally Yates concurred several weeks later: "We were at the fact-gathering stage here, not the conclusion stage."

ADVERTISEMENT

The same goes for the FBI agents who started the collusion probe in 2016. Most remarkable, former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe admitted the bureau's reason for opening the case was nonsense. Asked in December 2017 why the FBI obtained a secret surveillance warrant on former Trump aide Carter Page, rather than on George Papadopoulos (whose casual conversation with a foreign diplomat was the catalyst for the probe), Mr. McCabe responded: "Papadopoulos' comment didn't particularly indicate that he was the person that had had—that was interacting with the Russians." No one else was either.

On it went, a parade of former Obama officials who declared under oath they'd seen no evidence of collusion or conspiracy—Susan Rice, Ben Rhodes, Samantha Power. Interviews with Trump campaign or Administration officials also yielded no collusion evidence. Mr. Schiff had access to these transcripts even as he claimed he had "ample" proof of collusion and wrote his false report.

He's still making it up. Last week he said the transcripts contain "evidence of the Trump campaign's efforts to invite, make use of, and cover up Russia's help in the 2016 presidential election."

The question we'd ask our friends in the media is when are they going to stop playing the fool by putting him on the air? Mr. Schiff is a powerful figure with access to secrets that the rest of us don't have and can't check. He misled the country repeatedly on an issue that consumed American politics.

ADVERTISEMENT

President Trump often spreads falsehoods and invents facts, but at least he's paid a price for it in media criticism and public mistrust. An industry of media fact checkers is dedicated to parsing his every word. As for Mr. Schiff, no one should ever believe another word he says.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 11:21:47 PM
That's intriguing. I wonder what the advertisements were?

I suppose they're different for each person based on the sort of pages the person has been clicking into. So in the eejit above's case they were likely ads for Alex Jones's health supplements which cure COVID 19, containing Jones's sooper dooper patented nanosilver™.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 18, 2020, 11:24:24 PM
J70-whether you agree or disagree with the WJ editorial board, the question is, why didn't he release them and only did so when the White House threatened to do so?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 11:26:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 10:58:01 PM

What did Schiff supposedly do?

Schiffgate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 18, 2020, 11:28:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Ketchup is one of the few useful things that America has given the world.

Au contraire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup):

In the 17th century, the Chinese mixed pickled fish and spices and called it (in the Amoy dialect) kôe-chiap or kê-chiap (鮭汁, Mandarin Chinese guī zhī, Cantonese gwai1 zap1) meaning the brine of pickled fish (鮭, salmon; 汁, juice) or shellfish.[7][8] By the early 18th century, the table sauce had arrived in the Malay states (present day Malaysia and Singapore), where English colonists first tasted it. The Malaysian-Malay word for the sauce was kicap or kecap (pronounced [kɛt͡ʃap]). That word evolved into the English word "ketchup".[9] English settlers took ketchup with them to the American colonies.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 11:49:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 11:24:24 PM
J70-whether you agree or disagree with the WJ editorial board, the question is, why didn't he release them and only did so when the White House threatened to do so?

No idea, but he should obviously answer and if the evidence he claims exists does exist, then he should release it through or to the appropriate channels.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on May 19, 2020, 01:29:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 18, 2020, 11:28:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Ketchup is one of the few useful things that America has given the world.

Au contraire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup):

In the 17th century, the Chinese mixed pickled fish and spices and called it (in the Amoy dialect) kôe-chiap or kê-chiap (鮭汁, Mandarin Chinese guī zhī, Cantonese gwai1 zap1) meaning the brine of pickled fish (鮭, salmon; 汁, juice) or shellfish.[7][8] By the early 18th century, the table sauce had arrived in the Malay states (present day Malaysia and Singapore), where English colonists first tasted it. The Malaysian-Malay word for the sauce was kicap or kecap (pronounced [kɛt͡ʃap]). That word evolved into the English word "ketchup".[9] English settlers took ketchup with them to the American colonies.

Whatever about  the word, tomatoes originated in  America and they rather than pickled fish are the basis of ketchup.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 19, 2020, 04:53:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 19, 2020, 01:29:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 18, 2020, 11:28:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Ketchup is one of the few useful things that America has given the world.

Au contraire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup):

In the 17th century, the Chinese mixed pickled fish and spices and called it (in the Amoy dialect) kôe-chiap or kê-chiap (鮭汁, Mandarin Chinese guī zhī, Cantonese gwai1 zap1) meaning the brine of pickled fish (鮭, salmon; 汁, juice) or shellfish.[7][8] By the early 18th century, the table sauce had arrived in the Malay states (present day Malaysia and Singapore), where English colonists first tasted it. The Malaysian-Malay word for the sauce was kicap or kecap (pronounced [kɛt͡ʃap]). That word evolved into the English word "ketchup".[9] English settlers took ketchup with them to the American colonies.

Whatever about  the word, tomatoes originated in  America and they rather than pickled fish are the basis of ketchup.

Whatever about the origin of the stuff I thought that the debate wudda been about the usefulness of the stuff.... clean rotten too!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 12:08:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 11:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 09:23:52 PM
J70

The whole lot of them are fvckin pathetic.....at this point I really don't care who gets elected (and I actually do like Uncle Joe)

How you guys can sit by and say nothing about Schiff and the stunts he has pulled is very disappointing

What did Schiff supposedly do?

(honest question - I'm not really watching news these days beyond reading the latest COVID updates and reading this place now and then. Too busy with work, homeschooling and childcare. I have seen an occasional "shifty Schiff" headline, but I don't generally click on loaded bait like that)

All the Adam Schiff Transcripts

I find it interesting that every quote in there that is accusing Schiff is qualified to some degree or another.

I cannot comment on the veracity of the report - but given the existence of those qualifications - I'd be uncomfortable using it to form a strong opinion without verifying it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 19, 2020, 01:21:28 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 12:08:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 11:19:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 18, 2020, 09:23:52 PM
J70

The whole lot of them are fvckin pathetic.....at this point I really don't care who gets elected (and I actually do like Uncle Joe)

How you guys can sit by and say nothing about Schiff and the stunts he has pulled is very disappointing

What did Schiff supposedly do?

(honest question - I'm not really watching news these days beyond reading the latest COVID updates and reading this place now and then. Too busy with work, homeschooling and childcare. I have seen an occasional "shifty Schiff" headline, but I don't generally click on loaded bait like that)

All the Adam Schiff Transcripts

I find it interesting that every quote in there that is accusing Schiff is qualified to some degree or another.

I cannot comment on the veracity of the report - but given the existence of those qualifications - I'd be uncomfortable using it to form a strong opinion without verifying it.

Roger Stone got jailed for lying to this committee

Now it looks like some other people may also have lied to them.......

Makes me wonder if that isn't why he didn't willingly release the transcripts

Some people should be very worried
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:22:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 19, 2020, 01:29:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 18, 2020, 11:28:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Ketchup is one of the few useful things that America has given the world.

Au contraire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup):

In the 17th century, the Chinese mixed pickled fish and spices and called it (in the Amoy dialect) kôe-chiap or kê-chiap (鮭汁, Mandarin Chinese guī zhī, Cantonese gwai1 zap1) meaning the brine of pickled fish (鮭, salmon; 汁, juice) or shellfish.[7][8] By the early 18th century, the table sauce had arrived in the Malay states (present day Malaysia and Singapore), where English colonists first tasted it. The Malaysian-Malay word for the sauce was kicap or kecap (pronounced [kɛt͡ʃap]). That word evolved into the English word "ketchup".[9] English settlers took ketchup with them to the American colonies.

Whatever about  the word, tomatoes originated in  America and they rather than pickled fish are the basis of ketchup.

South and Central America, yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 19, 2020, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test.

He points out to an official attempt to fix the numbers and hide them from the public and all you can do is engage in whataboutery?

Don't have any opinion yourself on this case?

Are you ok with what Florida is alleged to have done here?

How about Richard Bright's removal from his federal job because he wouldn't tow the line and sacrifice his integrity and professional credibility on Trumps ridiculous hyping of hydrochloriquine?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 08:35:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2020, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test.

He points out to an official attempt to fix the numbers and hide them from the public and all you can do is engage in whataboutery?

Don't have any opinion yourself on this case?

Are you ok with what Florida is alleged to have done here?

How about Richard Bright's removal from his federal job because he wouldn't tow the line and sacrifice his integrity and professional credibility on Trumps ridiculous hyping of hydrochloriquine?
at this moment in time she is a disgruntled former employee she has her opinion as does Tara reade but believe one or both  .
Bright I know nothing about I'm sure schiff and nadler are all over it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 09:48:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test.
Because we're not talking about New York. We're talking about Florida.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 19, 2020, 09:59:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 08:35:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2020, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test.

He points out to an official attempt to fix the numbers and hide them from the public and all you can do is engage in whataboutery?

Don't have any opinion yourself on this case?

Are you ok with what Florida is alleged to have done here?

How about Richard Bright's removal from his federal job because he wouldn't tow the line and sacrifice his integrity and professional credibility on Trumps ridiculous hyping of hydrochloriquine?
at this moment in time she is a disgruntled former employee she has her opinion as does Tara reade but believe one or both  .
Bright I know nothing about I'm sure schiff and nadler are all over it .

Well let's start with the Inspector General for the department and the whistleblower body.

Assuming of course they have one given the way Trump has been getting rid of them!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 10:53:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 09:48:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test.
Because we're not talking about New York. We're talking about Florida.
Here's a thought on Florida, Florida voted for trump in the last election so by your thinking it's a red neck state and you and Sid hope lots of people die there .  Florida should be commended on keeping its elderly population so safe and moving the state to reopening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 19, 2020, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 10:53:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 09:48:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test.
Because we're not talking about New York. We're talking about Florida.
Here's a thought on Florida, Florida voted for trump in the last election so by your thinking it's a red neck state and you and Sid hope lots of people die there .  Florida should be commended on keeping its elderly population so safe and moving the state to reopening.

It's called selective outrage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test.
New York's graph is going down significantly. The areas which have taken Trump's advice are going up.

Why don't you tell us  a bit about Trump's so called "cubic model" for Coronavirus, which was literally a line drawn by economists to fit what they wanted to believe would happen?

Why are Trump's CDC figures on prisons and meat processing plants so wildly wrong?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 12:35:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 10:53:14 PM
Here's a thought on Florida, Florida voted for trump in the last election so by your thinking it's a red neck state and you and Sid hope lots of people die there .  Florida should be commended on keeping its elderly population so safe and moving the state to reopening.
Wow. You're waaaay down the rabbit hole, aren't you?

I've noticed this as a fairly widely used actual talking point from Trump cultists during this crisis.

The logic of the cultists is that if you object in any way to calling the virus a hoax, saying it will go away like a miracle, shameful abdication of responsibility on testing, falsifying figures, opening up the economy in places where cases are rising, and the general shitshow of appalling governance from Trump and his cronies, you want people to die.

It's the same logic that says if you want a rapist to be punished, "you hope the victim was raped". Which I've also heard used as a talking point by right wing nutcases.

Like, you can't argue with that "logic", because it's f**king insane. You really do genuinely believe this shit, don't you?

The thing is, from the evidence we've seen with our own two eyes, it's very possible that Trump genuinely does want a hell of a lot of people to die - the evidence of his entire life proves that he loves inflicting pain on other people, and his regime is full of end times cultists.















Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
"All a lie", because money. Pretty much sums up the entirety of the far right Republican party and right-wing politics in America now. Anti-abortion groups, especially American anti-abortion groups, are some of the most dishonest people on the face of the planet.

The woman behind 'Roe vs. Wade' didn't change her mind on abortion. She was paid

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-05-19/roe-v-wade-jane-roe-norma-mccorvey-hulu-doc-abortion

By MEREDITH BLAKE
MAY 19, 20209 AM
When Norma McCorvey, the anonymous plaintiff in the landmark Roe vs. Wade case, came out against abortion in 1995, it stunned the world and represented a huge symbolic victory for abortion opponents: "Jane Roe" had gone to the other side. For the remainder of her life, McCorvey worked to overturn the law that bore her name.

But it was all a lie, McCorvey says in a documentary filmed in the months before her death in 2017, claiming she only did it because she was paid by antiabortion groups including Operation Rescue.

"I was the big fish. I think it was a mutual thing. I took their money and they'd put me out in front of the cameras and tell me what to say. That's what I'd say," she says in "AKA Jane Roe," which premieres Friday on FX. "It was all an act. I did it well too. I am a good actress."

In what she describes as a "deathbed confession," a visibly ailing McCorvey restates her support for reproductive rights in colorful terms: "If a young woman wants to have an abortion, that's no skin off my ass. That's why they call it choice."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 01:32:32 AM
One of the great cliches trotted out by people about US elections is "it's the economy, stupid". And it is stupid.

A few months ago the great and the good were telling us that Trump winning the election would depend on the economy.

But with Trump, it's never, ever been about the economy. It's about being a white supremacist cult - which is why his support will not collapse in the biggest economic collapse America has ever seen.

Coronavirus latest: US economy expected to shrink 38% on year in Q2
Congressional Budget Office projection is in line with its April forecast for a 40% annual contraction and a quarter on quarter decline of 12%


https://www.ft.com/content/0a25eeef-ba0d-37a6-948f-a68bc41db249
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 20, 2020, 02:25:56 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 01:32:32 AM
One of the great cliches trotted out by people about US elections is "it's the economy, stupid". And it is stupid.

A few months ago the great and the good were telling us that Trump winning the election would depend on the economy.

But with Trump, it's never, ever been about the economy. It's about being a white supremacist cult - which is why his support will not collapse in the biggest economic collapse America has ever seen.

Coronavirus latest: US economy expected to shrink 38% on year in Q2
Congressional Budget Office projection is in line with its April forecast for a 40% annual contraction and a quarter on quarter decline of 12%


https://www.ft.com/content/0a25eeef-ba0d-37a6-948f-a68bc41db249

Sid....are you one of those bucks who's gone mad on the sauce since you're stuck indoors?

Because, if you believe even half of what you're posting up here, you need serious psychological help
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 01:59:42 PM
https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1263090240329261056

In the middle of a pandemic, Trump's campaign manager is touting the research of a fringe medical group that has suggested HIV does not cause AIDS, nicotine isn't addictive, and Obama won the presidency by hypnotizing Jews

https://popular.info/p/rise-of-the-quacks

Who can argue with the conclusions of the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons (AAPS)? Well, despite the official-sounding name, the AAPS is a fringe group that frequently pushes scientifically-discredited views in pursuit of an ideological agenda. It has pushed dangerous misinformation about AIDS, abortion, and vaccines, among other issues. Its data on hydroxychloroquine is complete bunk.

Out of roughly a million doctors in the United States, about 2500 are dues-paying members of the AAPS. The American Medical Association has more than 228,000 members.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
Trump says it's "a badge of honour" that the US has so many cases of Covid and so many deaths.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1262863684126326792

Laurence Tribe
@tribelaw

This is like calling a trail of corpses a badge of honor for the police department that let the serial murderer run free for months before shutting him down. Trump is a ghoul and an idiot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 20, 2020, 04:55:07 PM
https://thebulwark.com/45751-2/

Well as we can clearly see Obama is satan incarnate and should be locked up for ... oh nothing he did absolutely nothing!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 20, 2020, 05:11:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
Trump says it's "a badge of honour" that the US has so many cases of Covid and so many deaths.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1262863684126326792

Laurence Tribe
@tribelaw

This is like calling a trail of corpses a badge of honor for the police department that let the serial murderer run free for months before shutting him down. Trump is a ghoul and an idiot.
America is still under 40,000 tests per million imagine the number of cases once they increase testing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 20, 2020, 05:39:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2020, 04:55:07 PM
https://thebulwark.com/45751-2/

Well as we can clearly see Obama is satan incarnate and should be locked up for ... oh nothing he did absolutely nothing!!!

LOL. ;D

That's an interesting site, The Bulwark. Wasn't aware of it.

I've heard Charlie Sykes quite a bit on WNYC (NYC NPR station), and he seems a very sane and sensible conservative commentator overall in a world where most of them, in the US at least, are out of their f**king gourds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 20, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
Another article from that website, this time on how several of Trump's actions from just this past weekend would have been administration-consuming/defining scandals for any previous president, yet hardly warranted a yawn from the supposed lamestream media that is out to get him.

https://thebulwark.com/the-biggest-scandal-of-trumps-presidency-is-hiding-in-plain-sight/ (https://thebulwark.com/the-biggest-scandal-of-trumps-presidency-is-hiding-in-plain-sight/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 20, 2020, 06:00:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 19, 2020, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 10:53:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 09:48:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test.
Because we're not talking about New York. We're talking about Florida.
Here's a thought on Florida, Florida voted for trump in the last election so by your thinking it's a red neck state and you and Sid hope lots of people die there .  Florida should be commended on keeping its elderly population so safe and moving the state to reopening.

It's called selective outrage

For once whitey .. something you actually know a lot about... "selective outrage"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 07:06:26 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 20, 2020, 06:00:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 19, 2020, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 10:53:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 09:48:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 19, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Lionel Hutz's definition of "the truth  >:( >:( >:(" and "the truth  :D :D :D" comes to mind.

If you don't subscribe to the latter, ie. lies, you're an enemy as far as the Republicans are concerned.

https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1262721011281268738

Rebekah Jones, who is credited with creating the Florida Department of Health data portal, told CBS12 News she was removed because she refused to censor data and "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

What do you expect from the state that tried to deal with Climate Change by banning all mention of the phenomenon?
Florida has 2k deaths with a huge elderly population that's too good for a lot of people's liking
Why don't you comment on the complete mess New York is with Cuomo at the helm sending positive elders back to nursing homes to their deaths after a positive test.
Because we're not talking about New York. We're talking about Florida.
Here's a thought on Florida, Florida voted for trump in the last election so by your thinking it's a red neck state and you and Sid hope lots of people die there .  Florida should be commended on keeping its elderly population so safe and moving the state to reopening.

It's called selective outrage

For once whitey .. something you actually know a lot about... "selective outrage"
tim Miller who worked for the anti trump pac , also for McCain and Jeb Bush so he wouldn't be a non biased reporter which is the case for most reporters on both sides but the anti trump are 10-1 in the media , example there is little criticism of Murphy or Cuomo in the media but desantis , Abbott and kemp are getting a lot of heat why is that when you look at the performance of each state during the current crisis . I know where I would rather be .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 20, 2020, 07:24:13 PM
You don't think there's a legitimate reason (assuming your assertion is correct) that the majority of the media, including many conservatives, are anti-Trump?

DeSantis and Kemp chanced their arm, going against the public health expertise. Circumstances may mean they'll get away with it (time will tell), but there was hardly much design to their strategies. One does wonder though what influence all those spring breakers had on infections elsewhere? And both administration have had accusations leveled at them in the past week for fixing the numbers.

And in case you'd forgotten, Trump himself condemned Kemp.

Cuomo is getting plenty of criticism for the nursing home issue and expecting them to take and adequately care for COVID-infected residents. Their motivation was a desire to preserve hospital space in light of the dire predictions (coming from the Feds BTW) at the time, but their directive was obviously extremely problematic in retrospect. Its a significant black mark against an otherwise mature and competent performance on Cuomo's part.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 20, 2020, 07:24:13 PM
You don't think there's a legitimate reason (assuming your assertion is correct) that the majority of the media, including many conservatives, are anti-Trump?

DeSantis and Kemp chanced their arm, going against the public health expertise. Circumstances may mean they'll get away with it (time will tell), but there was hardly much design to their strategies. One does wonder though what influence all those spring breakers had on infections elsewhere? And both administration have had accusations leveled at them in the past week for fixing the numbers.

And in case you'd forgotten, Trump himself condemned Kemp.

Cuomo is getting plenty of criticism for the nursing home issue and expecting them to take and adequately care for COVID-infected residents. Their motivation was a desire to preserve hospital space in light of the dire predictions (coming from the Feds BTW) at the time, but their directive was obviously extremely problematic in retrospect. Its a significant black mark against an otherwise mature and competent performance on Cuomo's part.
two of trumps policies he was running on last time have  shown to be crucial in the pandemic having strong tight border control and trying to get away from relying on China for most everything we consume and need , they are very simple messages but I don't think anyone would disagree with them now .
On couple of other things Georgia is doing good and seems to be out of the woods , Texas has lowest hospitalization since early April and the data lady in Florida is turning out to be just what I said a disgruntled insubordinate worker .
Mr bright also seems to be a disgruntled worker and he has gone to the back burner which is a sign he had no dirt to tell , on a positive note for bright he was transferred not fired and is still on his 295k salary so don't feel too sorry for him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 09:11:50 PM
On April 1st - a very appropriate date - Brian Kemp said that the news that there was such a thing as asymptomatic transmission was "a revelation and a game changer".

Despite the fact that this was common knowledge back in January.

And our resident idiots here think that sort of wilful ignorance is just fine.

As Georgia Secretary of State, Kemp oversaw industrial levels of voter purging, which benefitted none other than himself when he ran for Governor in 2018. There's also significant evidence of vote falsification in that 2018 Georgia election.

Kemp is typical of the sort of arrogant, corrupt, anti-democracy sc**bag that infests the Republican party.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/10/georgia-election-recount-stacey-abrams-brian-kemp

After Kemp's resignation, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People president, Derrick Johnson, released a statement, filled with refrains echoed by other legal experts, civil rights figures and Kemp's adversaries during and before the election.

He said: "Kemp's actions during the election were textbook voter suppression. His actions were strategic, careless and aimed at silencing the voting power of communities of color in the state."

Consider these numbers.

• In the three months leading up to election day, more than 85,000 voters were purged from rolls under Kemp. During 2017 668,000 voters were purged, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

• Of those 2017 numbers, investigative reporter Greg Palast told Salon, 200,000 people left the state, died or moved out their district, making them legitimate cancellations. However, through litigation, he got the entire purge list. "Of the 400,000 who supposedly moved, our experts will tell a court that 340,134 never moved – wrongly purged," Palast told the Guardian, saying people had been purged for not voting in an election or two.

• Furthermore from 2012 to 2016, 1.5 million voters were purged – more than 10% of all voters – from records, according to a 2018 report from the Brennan Center for Justice. In comparison, 750,000 were purged from 2008 to 2012.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 20, 2020, 09:24:49 PM
Sid-if you show up at the correct polling place and your name isn't in the register what happens?

Are you (a) not allowed to vote OR (b) allowed cast a provisional ballot?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2020, 09:45:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 20, 2020, 09:24:49 PM
Sid-if you show up at the correct polling place and your name isn't in the register what happens?

Are you (a) not allowed to vote OR (b) allowed cast a provisional ballot?

Don't answer this, Sid. Let him address the voter suppression efforts. Let's see him justify purging people from the electoral roles in vast numbers over obscure technicalities. Let's hear his justification for why not showing up at a few elections is justification for having your name scrubbed off the register.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 20, 2020, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 20, 2020, 07:24:13 PM
You don't think there's a legitimate reason (assuming your assertion is correct) that the majority of the media, including many conservatives, are anti-Trump?

DeSantis and Kemp chanced their arm, going against the public health expertise. Circumstances may mean they'll get away with it (time will tell), but there was hardly much design to their strategies. One does wonder though what influence all those spring breakers had on infections elsewhere? And both administration have had accusations leveled at them in the past week for fixing the numbers.

And in case you'd forgotten, Trump himself condemned Kemp.

Cuomo is getting plenty of criticism for the nursing home issue and expecting them to take and adequately care for COVID-infected residents. Their motivation was a desire to preserve hospital space in light of the dire predictions (coming from the Feds BTW) at the time, but their directive was obviously extremely problematic in retrospect. Its a significant black mark against an otherwise mature and competent performance on Cuomo's part.
two of trumps policies he was running on last time have  shown to be crucial in the pandemic having strong tight border control and trying to get away from relying on China for most everything we consume and need , they are very simple messages but I don't think anyone would disagree with them now .
On couple of other things Georgia is doing good and seems to be out of the woods , Texas has lowest hospitalization since early April and the data lady in Florida is turning out to be just what I said a disgruntled insubordinate worker .
Mr bright also seems to be a disgruntled worker and he has gone to the back burner which is a sign he had no dirt to tell , on a positive note for bright he was transferred not fired and is still on his 295k salary so don't feel too sorry for him .

We'll see how much people start disagreeing with Chinese manufacturing when the price of everything starts to increase. There's a reason all those jobs left the west, simple capitalism and consumption.

As for borders, give me a break. The major source of the outbreak in NYC was Europe. Are you saying Trump is going to start restricting ALL travel into the US forever? Because diseases as easily transmissible and infectious as COVID-19 are going to be circulating way before anyone knows about it.

As for Richard Bright... er.... he testified before Congress a few days ago; he was on 60 minutes on Sunday night (promoting a petulant tweet storm from you know who) and is in the midst of a major and public whistleblower investigation into his allegation that he was retaliated against and demoted.  How is he "on the back burner"?

Georgia very much remains to be seen. Hopefully for us all they do get lucky. Doesn't make Kemp any less reckless or ill-informed.

The Florida lady - also remains to be seen. I see DeSantis laying into her today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 10:11:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 20, 2020, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 20, 2020, 07:24:13 PM
You don't think there's a legitimate reason (assuming your assertion is correct) that the majority of the media, including many conservatives, are anti-Trump?

DeSantis and Kemp chanced their arm, going against the public health expertise. Circumstances may mean they'll get away with it (time will tell), but there was hardly much design to their strategies. One does wonder though what influence all those spring breakers had on infections elsewhere? And both administration have had accusations leveled at them in the past week for fixing the numbers.

And in case you'd forgotten, Trump himself condemned Kemp.

Cuomo is getting plenty of criticism for the nursing home issue and expecting them to take and adequately care for COVID-infected residents. Their motivation was a desire to preserve hospital space in light of the dire predictions (coming from the Feds BTW) at the time, but their directive was obviously extremely problematic in retrospect. Its a significant black mark against an otherwise mature and competent performance on Cuomo's part.
two of trumps policies he was running on last time have  shown to be crucial in the pandemic having strong tight border control and trying to get away from relying on China for most everything we consume and need , they are very simple messages but I don't think anyone would disagree with them now .
On couple of other things Georgia is doing good and seems to be out of the woods , Texas has lowest hospitalization since early April and the data lady in Florida is turning out to be just what I said a disgruntled insubordinate worker .
Mr bright also seems to be a disgruntled worker and he has gone to the back burner which is a sign he had no dirt to tell , on a positive note for bright he was transferred not fired and is still on his 295k salary so don't feel too sorry for him .

We'll see how much people start disagreeing with Chinese manufacturing when the price of everything starts to increase. There's a reason all those jobs left the west, simple capitalism and consumption.

As for borders, give me a break. The major source of the outbreak in NYC was Europe. Are you saying Trump is going to start restricting ALL travel into the US forever? Because diseases as easily transmissible and infectious as COVID-19 are going to be circulating way before anyone knows about it.

As for Richard Bright... er.... he testified before Congress a few days ago; he was on 60 minutes on Sunday night (promoting a petulant tweet storm from you know who) and is in the midst of a major and public whistleblower investigation into his allegation that he was retaliated against and demoted.  How is he "on the back burner"?

Georgia very much remains to be seen. Hopefully for us all they do get lucky. Doesn't make Kemp any less reckless or ill-informed.

The Florida lady - also remains to be seen. I see DeSantis laying into her today.
I said have a tight secure border nothing about travel.
Nothing will come of bright if you are going against the policy of the current administration you work for you are lucky to be transferred but mostly fired ask Michael Flynn .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2020, 09:45:50 PM

Don't answer this, Sid. Let him address the voter suppression efforts. Let's see him justify purging people from the electoral roles in vast numbers over obscure technicalities. Let's hear his justification for why not showing up at a few elections is justification for having your name scrubbed off the register.
Sure I have him on ignore, he's a troll and an idiot who hasn't once answered a question on this thread going back years. He isn't here to debate or acknowledge reality in any way.

Let him windmill away.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 10:24:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 10:11:39 PM

Nothing will come of bright if you are going against the policy of the current administration you work for you are lucky to be transferred but mostly fired ask Michael Flynn .
Michael Flynn didn't go against the policy of the Trump regime in any way, he was carrying it out. He resigned, he wasn't fired. He was specifically put into the position he was in, where he had access to literally every piece of intelligence available to the US, precisely because he's a foreign agent. He was brought in specifically to undermine US national security. And Trump is only gagging to bring him back into the cabinet.

So, when are we going to see the transcripts of all Flynn's conversations with Kislyak?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 20, 2020, 10:38:33 PM
Data Disprove the 'Voter Suppression' Myth
Democrats scapegoat photo-ID laws for losses in states where minority turnout rose in 2018.

By  Jason L. Riley
May 7, 2019 6:40 pm ET
SAVE
PRINT
TEXT
229

Stacey Abrams, the defeated Georgia gubernatorial candidate, speaks in New York, April 3.
PHOTO: MICHAEL NIGRO/ZUMA PRESS
It has long been an article of faith on the political left that Republicans win elections by disenfranchising certain voting blocs. We are told that requiring voters to present photo identification at polling places not only depresses minority turnout but is tantamount to racial discrimination. The evidence challenging these assumptions gets stronger with every passing election, but Democrats and most of the political press don't seem to have noticed.

At an NAACP dinner in Detroit on Sunday, Sen. Kamala Harris told the audience that "voter suppression" in Georgia and Florida cost Democrats gubernatorial races in the 2018 midterm elections. "Let's say this loud and clear," said Ms. Harris, a Democratic presidential candidate. "Without voter suppression, Stacey Abrams would be the governor of Georgia. Andrew Gillum is the governor of Florida."

A few days earlier, Ms. Abrams herself, apparently still bitter over her defeat, made a similar claim. "We had an architect of voter suppression that spent the last eight years knitting together a system of voter suppression that is unparalleled in America," said Ms. Abrams in reference to her Republican opponent, Brian Kemp, a former Georgia secretary of state. "I've never seen a community of people work so hard to strip away our rights and our humanity as fast as they can." But if mandating voter ID, removing inactive voters from registration rolls or limiting early voting harms minorities, where is the evidence?


It just so happens that two weeks ago the Census Bureau released a report on voter turnout in 2018, which climbed 11 percentage points from the last midterm election, in 2014, and surpassed 50% for the first time since 1982. Moreover, the increased turnout was largely driven by the same minority voters Democrats claim are being disenfranchised. Black turnout grew around 27%, and Hispanic turnout increased about 50%. An analysis of the census data published by the Pew Research Center found that "all major racial and ethnic groups saw historic jumps in voter turnout" last year.

None of this comes as news to anyone who pays attention to sober facts instead of inflammatory rhetoric. The black voter turnout rate for the most part has grown steadily since the 1990s. This has occurred notwithstanding an increase in state voter-ID requirements over the same period. In 2012 blacks voted at higher rates than whites nationwide, including in Georgia, which was one of the first states in the country to implement a photo-ID requirement for voting. Ms. Abrams claims that Republicans have been hard at work trying to disenfranchise black voters, but the reality is that black voter registration is outpacing white registration in the Peach State.

Nor is it at all clear that minority voters share the view of politicians and activists who have chosen to racialize a debate over ensuring the accuracy and integrity of U.S. elections. Ms. Harris may feel that identification requirements for banking and flying should not apply to voting, but most people don't have a problem with them. In a 2016 Gallup poll, voter-ID laws were supported by 4 in 5 respondents, including 95% of Republicans, 63% of Democrats, 81% of whites and 77% of nonwhites. In a 2012 survey published by the Washington Post, approval was similarly broad and deep, with 78% of whites, 65% of blacks and 64% of Hispanics expressing support for voter ID laws. When will Democrats learn how to lose an election without playing the race card?

If more people from different backgrounds are participating in American democracy, this is progress. But what's good for the country in that respect isn't necessarily good for President Trump's re-election prospects. In 2016, Mr. Trump won Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania—representing a combined 46 electoral votes—by less than a percentage point. If the Democratic nominee holds the states that Hillary Clinton won and flips those three, Mr. Trump is a one-term president.


Whether Mrs. Clinton fell short in the Rust Belt because blacks hadn't forgiven her for challenging Barack Obama in 2008 or because they felt taken for granted and stayed home, we'll never know for certain. But there's a reason Democrats chose Milwaukee for their nominating convention in 2020. And if the 2018 midterms are any indication of what's to come next year, Democratic turnout won't be a problem.

The Democrats' real fear is that people will vote their pocketbooks. Under Mr. Trump, working-class minorities in particular have experienced generational lows in unemployment and seen their wages grow at a faster clip than their supervisors'. The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that a new survey suggests the president is "making headway with select groups of Americans who disapprove of his job performance but are willing to credit him for a bustling economy, revealing a block of voters that his re-election campaign is likely to target in the coming months." That frightens Democrats far more than any supposed "voter suppression" effort by their opponents.

Copyright ©2020 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8
Appeared in the May 8, 2019, print edition.


About this article
Upward Mobility
"Upward Mobility" focuses on politics, public policy and urban affairs--schools, crime, unions, race relations, poverty, policing and the like.The goal is to let facts, rather than political correctness, show the way. It is published online every Tuesday evening and in print on Wednesdays.

+ Show More
Jason L. Riley
Jason L. Riley

Jason Riley is a member of The Wall Street Journal Editorial Board. He joined the paper in 1994 as a copyreader on the national news desk in New York. He moved to the editorial page in 1995 as copyreader and later became a copy editor. In April 1996, he was named to the newly created position of editorial interactive editor and maintained the editorial and Leisure & Arts section of WSJ.com. He was named a senior editorial page writer in March 2000, and member of the Editorial Board in 2005.

Born in Buffalo, N.Y., Mr. Riley earned a bachelor's degree in English from the State University of New York at Buffalo. He has also worked for USA Today and the Buffalo News.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 20, 2020, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 20, 2020, 10:38:33 PM
Data Disprove the 'Voter Suppression' Myth
Democrats scapegoat photo-ID laws for losses in states where minority turnout rose in 2018.

By  Jason L. Riley
May 7, 2019 6:40 pm ET
SAVE
PRINT
TEXT
229

Stacey Abrams, the defeated Georgia gubernatorial candidate, speaks in New York, April 3.
PHOTO: MICHAEL NIGRO/ZUMA PRESS
It has long been an article of faith on the political left that Republicans win elections by disenfranchising certain voting blocs. We are told that requiring voters to present photo identification at polling places not only depresses minority turnout but is tantamount to racial discrimination. The evidence challenging these assumptions gets stronger with every passing election, but Democrats and most of the political press don't seem to have noticed.

At an NAACP dinner in Detroit on Sunday, Sen. Kamala Harris told the audience that "voter suppression" in Georgia and Florida cost Democrats gubernatorial races in the 2018 midterm elections. "Let's say this loud and clear," said Ms. Harris, a Democratic presidential candidate. "Without voter suppression, Stacey Abrams would be the governor of Georgia. Andrew Gillum is the governor of Florida."

A few days earlier, Ms. Abrams herself, apparently still bitter over her defeat, made a similar claim. "We had an architect of voter suppression that spent the last eight years knitting together a system of voter suppression that is unparalleled in America," said Ms. Abrams in reference to her Republican opponent, Brian Kemp, a former Georgia secretary of state. "I've never seen a community of people work so hard to strip away our rights and our humanity as fast as they can." But if mandating voter ID, removing inactive voters from registration rolls or limiting early voting harms minorities, where is the evidence?


It just so happens that two weeks ago the Census Bureau released a report on voter turnout in 2018, which climbed 11 percentage points from the last midterm election, in 2014, and surpassed 50% for the first time since 1982. Moreover, the increased turnout was largely driven by the same minority voters Democrats claim are being disenfranchised. Black turnout grew around 27%, and Hispanic turnout increased about 50%. An analysis of the census data published by the Pew Research Center found that "all major racial and ethnic groups saw historic jumps in voter turnout" last year.

None of this comes as news to anyone who pays attention to sober facts instead of inflammatory rhetoric. The black voter turnout rate for the most part has grown steadily since the 1990s. This has occurred notwithstanding an increase in state voter-ID requirements over the same period. In 2012 blacks voted at higher rates than whites nationwide, including in Georgia, which was one of the first states in the country to implement a photo-ID requirement for voting. Ms. Abrams claims that Republicans have been hard at work trying to disenfranchise black voters, but the reality is that black voter registration is outpacing white registration in the Peach State.

Nor is it at all clear that minority voters share the view of politicians and activists who have chosen to racialize a debate over ensuring the accuracy and integrity of U.S. elections. Ms. Harris may feel that identification requirements for banking and flying should not apply to voting, but most people don't have a problem with them. In a 2016 Gallup poll, voter-ID laws were supported by 4 in 5 respondents, including 95% of Republicans, 63% of Democrats, 81% of whites and 77% of nonwhites. In a 2012 survey published by the Washington Post, approval was similarly broad and deep, with 78% of whites, 65% of blacks and 64% of Hispanics expressing support for voter ID laws. When will Democrats learn how to lose an election without playing the race card?

If more people from different backgrounds are participating in American democracy, this is progress. But what's good for the country in that respect isn't necessarily good for President Trump's re-election prospects. In 2016, Mr. Trump won Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania—representing a combined 46 electoral votes—by less than a percentage point. If the Democratic nominee holds the states that Hillary Clinton won and flips those three, Mr. Trump is a one-term president.


Whether Mrs. Clinton fell short in the Rust Belt because blacks hadn't forgiven her for challenging Barack Obama in 2008 or because they felt taken for granted and stayed home, we'll never know for certain. But there's a reason Democrats chose Milwaukee for their nominating convention in 2020. And if the 2018 midterms are any indication of what's to come next year, Democratic turnout won't be a problem.

The Democrats' real fear is that people will vote their pocketbooks. Under Mr. Trump, working-class minorities in particular have experienced generational lows in unemployment and seen their wages grow at a faster clip than their supervisors'. The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that a new survey suggests the president is "making headway with select groups of Americans who disapprove of his job performance but are willing to credit him for a bustling economy, revealing a block of voters that his re-election campaign is likely to target in the coming months." That frightens Democrats far more than any supposed "voter suppression" effort by their opponents.

Copyright ©2020 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8
Appeared in the May 8, 2019, print edition.


About this article
Upward Mobility
"Upward Mobility" focuses on politics, public policy and urban affairs--schools, crime, unions, race relations, poverty, policing and the like.The goal is to let facts, rather than political correctness, show the way. It is published online every Tuesday evening and in print on Wednesdays.

+ Show More
Jason L. Riley
Jason L. Riley

Jason Riley is a member of The Wall Street Journal Editorial Board. He joined the paper in 1994 as a copyreader on the national news desk in New York. He moved to the editorial page in 1995 as copyreader and later became a copy editor. In April 1996, he was named to the newly created position of editorial interactive editor and maintained the editorial and Leisure & Arts section of WSJ.com. He was named a senior editorial page writer in March 2000, and member of the Editorial Board in 2005.

Born in Buffalo, N.Y., Mr. Riley earned a bachelor's degree in English from the State University of New York at Buffalo. He has also worked for USA Today and the Buffalo News.
As always Whitey an opinion piece from the Murdoch Stable from a big defender of Trickle down economics.. for once think ... write for yourself and stop using right wing opinion pieces to attempt to validate your BS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 11:09:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 10:24:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 10:11:39 PM

Nothing will come of bright if you are going against the policy of the current administration you work for you are lucky to be transferred but mostly fired ask Michael Flynn .
Michael Flynn didn't go against the policy of the Trump regime in any way, he was carrying it out. He resigned, he wasn't fired. He was specifically put into the position he was in, where he had access to literally every piece of intelligence available to the US, precisely because he's a foreign agent. He was brought in specifically to undermine US national security. And Trump is only gagging to bring him back into the cabinet.

So, when are we going to see the transcripts of all Flynn's conversations with Kislyak?
obama fired him because of his differences over Middle East policy , giving billions to Iran
Arab spring, isis jv team etc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 20, 2020, 11:14:04 PM
Omo-I asked him a direct question which he won't answer about Voter suppression and his lackey Eamonn is claiming it's not a valid question

Having lived her for 30 years....voter suppression is the same as voter fraud.....non existent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 11:19:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 11:09:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 10:24:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 10:11:39 PM

Nothing will come of bright if you are going against the policy of the current administration you work for you are lucky to be transferred but mostly fired ask Michael Flynn .
Michael Flynn didn't go against the policy of the Trump regime in any way, he was carrying it out. He resigned, he wasn't fired. He was specifically put into the position he was in, where he had access to literally every piece of intelligence available to the US, precisely because he's a foreign agent. He was brought in specifically to undermine US national security. And Trump is only gagging to bring him back into the cabinet.

So, when are we going to see the transcripts of all Flynn's conversations with Kislyak?
obama fired him because of his differences over Middle East policy , giving billions to Iran
Arab spring, isis jv team etc
Read your own first post in this exchange before making a tit of yourself.

Michael Flynn resigned.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 20, 2020, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 20, 2020, 10:38:33 PM
The Democrats' real fear is that people will vote their pocketbooks. Under Mr. Trump, working-class minorities in particular have experienced generational lows in unemployment and seen their wages grow at a faster clip than their supervisors'. The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that a new survey suggests the president is "making headway with select groups of Americans who disapprove of his job performance but are willing to credit him for a bustling economy, revealing a block of voters that his re-election campaign is likely to target in the coming months." That frightens Democrats far more than any supposed "voter suppression" effort by their opponents.

Copyright ©2020 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8
Appeared in the May 8, 2019, print edition.

That thought train appears to have departed the station to destination unknown!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 11:22:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 20, 2020, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 20, 2020, 10:38:33 PM
The Democrats' real fear is that people will vote their pocketbooks. Under Mr. Trump, working-class minorities in particular have experienced generational lows in unemployment and seen their wages grow at a faster clip than their supervisors'. The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that a new survey suggests the president is "making headway with select groups of Americans who disapprove of his job performance but are willing to credit him for a bustling economy, revealing a block of voters that his re-election campaign is likely to target in the coming months." That frightens Democrats far more than any supposed "voter suppression" effort by their opponents.

Copyright ©2020 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8
Appeared in the May 8, 2019, print edition.

That thought train appears to have departed the station to destination unknown!
Trump has been the worst president for the economy in history.

Same as he's been the worst president in history by any other measurement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 20, 2020, 11:27:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 11:22:18 PM
Trump has been the worst president for the economy in history.

Same as he's been the worst president in history by any other measurement.

He got lucky off the back of the good work Obama did in getting the economy off its knees.

But, they lapped it up as it appeared to happen on his watch, the inertia of trillion dollar economies is far beyond the comprehension of the typical MAGA voter.


I've lost count now of the number of things he's done, and got away with, that would almost certainly have ended any other Presidency. His undermining of the media really has destroyed accountability within the US.

The USA really isn't far away from morphing into a fascist state. Add the incoming depression into the mix and its a powderkeg.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 11:37:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 20, 2020, 11:27:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 11:22:18 PM
Trump has been the worst president for the economy in history.

Same as he's been the worst president in history by any other measurement.

He got lucky off the back of the good work Obama did in getting the economy off its knees.

But, they lapped it up as it appeared to happen on his watch, the inertia of trillion dollar economies is far beyond the comprehension of the typical MAGA voter.


I've lost count now of the number of things he's done, and got away with, that would almost certainly have ended any other Presidency. His undermining of the media really has destroyed accountability within the US.
Trump runs a white supremacist mob cult which rejects science, rejects reason and rejects truth. It needs to be called what it is.

Funny that one of the things he whinged about in 2015 and 2016 was so called "political correctness" - ie. respecting people based on their gender/ethnicity/sexuality/religion.

Failure to call Trump what he is and he runs - a cult leader of a white supremacist cult - is real political correctness - political correctnesss that benefits him.

There is no such thing as "white nationalism", it is white supremacism, out and out racism.

Failure to call it what it is is modified language to avoid the real truth for political reasons, for fear of threats, intimidation and actual physical harm.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 21, 2020, 12:34:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 11:19:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 11:09:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 10:24:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 10:11:39 PM

Nothing will come of bright if you are going against the policy of the current administration you work for you are lucky to be transferred but mostly fired ask Michael Flynn .
Michael Flynn didn't go against the policy of the Trump regime in any way, he was carrying it out. He resigned, he wasn't fired. He was specifically put into the position he was in, where he had access to literally every piece of intelligence available to the US, precisely because he's a foreign agent. He was brought in specifically to undermine US national security. And Trump is only gagging to bring him back into the cabinet.

So, when are we going to see the transcripts of all Flynn's conversations with Kislyak?
obama fired him because of his differences over Middle East policy , giving billions to Iran
Arab spring, isis jv team etc
Read your own first post in this exchange before making a tit of yourself.

Michael Flynn resigned.
i said if you go against the administrations policy you work for you get whacked like Flynn did in 2014 when he was director of the defense intelligence agency in the Obama administration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 01:55:48 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 21, 2020, 12:34:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 11:19:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 11:09:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 10:24:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 10:11:39 PM

Nothing will come of bright if you are going against the policy of the current administration you work for you are lucky to be transferred but mostly fired ask Michael Flynn .
Michael Flynn didn't go against the policy of the Trump regime in any way, he was carrying it out. He resigned, he wasn't fired. He was specifically put into the position he was in, where he had access to literally every piece of intelligence available to the US, precisely because he's a foreign agent. He was brought in specifically to undermine US national security. And Trump is only gagging to bring him back into the cabinet.

So, when are we going to see the transcripts of all Flynn's conversations with Kislyak?
obama fired him because of his differences over Middle East policy , giving billions to Iran
Arab spring, isis jv team etc
Read your own first post in this exchange before making a tit of yourself.

Michael Flynn resigned.
i said if you go against the administrations policy you work for you get whacked like Flynn did in 2014 when he was director of the defense intelligence agency in the Obama administration.
He resigned then too, he was useless at his job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2020, 02:27:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 10:11:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 20, 2020, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 20, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 20, 2020, 07:24:13 PM
You don't think there's a legitimate reason (assuming your assertion is correct) that the majority of the media, including many conservatives, are anti-Trump?

DeSantis and Kemp chanced their arm, going against the public health expertise. Circumstances may mean they'll get away with it (time will tell), but there was hardly much design to their strategies. One does wonder though what influence all those spring breakers had on infections elsewhere? And both administration have had accusations leveled at them in the past week for fixing the numbers.

And in case you'd forgotten, Trump himself condemned Kemp.

Cuomo is getting plenty of criticism for the nursing home issue and expecting them to take and adequately care for COVID-infected residents. Their motivation was a desire to preserve hospital space in light of the dire predictions (coming from the Feds BTW) at the time, but their directive was obviously extremely problematic in retrospect. Its a significant black mark against an otherwise mature and competent performance on Cuomo's part.
two of trumps policies he was running on last time have  shown to be crucial in the pandemic having strong tight border control and trying to get away from relying on China for most everything we consume and need , they are very simple messages but I don't think anyone would disagree with them now .
On couple of other things Georgia is doing good and seems to be out of the woods , Texas has lowest hospitalization since early April and the data lady in Florida is turning out to be just what I said a disgruntled insubordinate worker .
Mr bright also seems to be a disgruntled worker and he has gone to the back burner which is a sign he had no dirt to tell , on a positive note for bright he was transferred not fired and is still on his 295k salary so don't feel too sorry for him .

We'll see how much people start disagreeing with Chinese manufacturing when the price of everything starts to increase. There's a reason all those jobs left the west, simple capitalism and consumption.

As for borders, give me a break. The major source of the outbreak in NYC was Europe. Are you saying Trump is going to start restricting ALL travel into the US forever? Because diseases as easily transmissible and infectious as COVID-19 are going to be circulating way before anyone knows about it.

As for Richard Bright... er.... he testified before Congress a few days ago; he was on 60 minutes on Sunday night (promoting a petulant tweet storm from you know who) and is in the midst of a major and public whistleblower investigation into his allegation that he was retaliated against and demoted.  How is he "on the back burner"?

Georgia very much remains to be seen. Hopefully for us all they do get lucky. Doesn't make Kemp any less reckless or ill-informed.

The Florida lady - also remains to be seen. I see DeSantis laying into her today.
I said have a tight secure border nothing about travel.
Nothing will come of bright if you are going against the policy of the current administration you work for you are lucky to be transferred but mostly fired ask Michael Flynn .

1. You said "strong tight border control" has been shown to be crucial by the pandemic. Travel is absolutely a huge component of border control. JFK Airport is as much a part of the US international border as the Rio Grande. In the case of COVID, a much more important part as it happens. How many COVID cases have been traced to either of the US land borders? Trump's wall is pretty much irrelevant to this outbreak.

2. On Bright, the soundness of said policy and the integrity of the administration doesn't mean anything?

You think its ok that a man of good reputation was demoted because he had the integrity, professionalism and concern about the public good NOT to toe the political line on an poorly supported, reckless policy position? There was no grey area in this in which reasonable men could disagree. What Trump was pushing was pure bullshit and made a political issue of something that should never have been politicized i.e. trials of a clinical drug.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2020, 02:48:43 AM

Quote from: whitey on May 20, 2020, 10:38:33 PM
The Democrats' real fear is that people will vote their pocketbooks. Under Mr. Trump, working-class minorities in particular have experienced generational lows in unemployment and seen their wages grow at a faster clip than their supervisors'. The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that a new survey suggests the president is "making headway with select groups of Americans who disapprove of his job performance but are willing to credit him for a bustling economy, revealing a block of voters that his re-election campaign is likely to target in the coming months." That frightens Democrats far more than any supposed "voter suppression" effort by their opponents.

Copyright ©2020 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8
Appeared in the May 8, 2019, print edition.

Can you point to where in the unemployment curve the Trump policies kicked in for African Americans?

(https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Figure-2.-Unemployment-Rate-for-African-Americans-1972-2019-820x493.jpg)
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/u-s-unemployment-rate-remains-at-near-historic-low-of-3-7-percent-african-american-unemployment-rate-hits-new-series-low/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/u-s-unemployment-rate-remains-at-near-historic-low-of-3-7-percent-african-american-unemployment-rate-hits-new-series-low/)

Or any group for that matter?

(https://www.rsfjournal.org/content/rsfjss/5/5/198/F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1)
https://www.rsfjournal.org/content/5/5/198 (https://www.rsfjournal.org/content/5/5/198)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 21, 2020, 03:23:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 20, 2020, 11:14:04 PM
Omo-I asked him a direct question which he won't answer about Voter suppression and his lackey Eamonn is claiming it's not a valid question

Having lived her for 30 years....voter suppression is the same as voter fraud.....non existent

I have lived here for 37 years .. voter suppression has been present constantly.. particularly in the south east.. the confederacy.. the place where racism is more overt.
Whitey .. why do you and that other fraud from Queen's country never answer my posts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 21, 2020, 04:42:59 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 21, 2020, 03:23:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 20, 2020, 11:14:04 PM
Omo-I asked him a direct question which he won't answer about Voter suppression and his lackey Eamonn is claiming it's not a valid question

Having lived her for 30 years....voter suppression is the same as voter fraud.....non existent

I have lived here for 37 years .. voter suppression has been present constantly.. particularly in the south east.. the confederacy.. the place where racism is more overt.
Whitey .. why do you and that other fraud from Queen's country never answer my posts.
relax, are the Pinocchio's  talking to you .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 21, 2020, 04:58:55 AM


Still awaiting to hear about those San Francisco policies that are coming back to haunt us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2020, 12:05:49 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 21, 2020, 03:23:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 20, 2020, 11:14:04 PM
Omo-I asked him a direct question which he won't answer about Voter suppression and his lackey Eamonn is claiming it's not a valid question

Having lived her for 30 years....voter suppression is the same as voter fraud.....non existent

I have lived here for 37 years .. voter suppression has been present constantly.. particularly in the south east.. the confederacy.. the place where racism is more overt.
Whitey .. why do you and that other fraud from Queen's country never answer my posts.

It's just like the Russia Hoax.....Democrats just cannot accept that they lost


The Voter Suppression Myth
Minority turnout surged in 2018, notably in Georgia and Florida.

By The Editorial Board
May 3, 2019 5:54 pm ET
Voters form long lines at Ousey United Methodist Church in Atlanta, Georgia, Nov. 6, 2018.
Voters form long lines at Ousey United Methodist Church in Atlanta, Georgia, Nov. 6, 2018.
PHOTO: MIGUEL JUAREZ LUGO/ZUMA PRESS

Democrats accuse Republicans of suppressing the minority vote with laws to ensure ballot integrity. But then how do they explain record minority turnout last November? If Republicans were trying to stop minorities from voting, their schemes were inept.

The number of Latino voters nearly doubled in last year's midterms compared to 2014 and came close to presidential year levels, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of new Census Bureau data. The share of blacks who voted climbed 10.8 percentage points to 51.4%, which was similar to the increase in white turnout (11.7 points).

Whites made up 72.8% of the national electorate, down from 76.3% in 2014. The minority turnout surge benefited Democrats who picked up 40 House seats, seven governorships and six legislative chambers. But Democrats still blame their defeats in the Florida and Georgia gubernatorial races on voter suppression. Census data show otherwise.

Georgia law requires voters be removed from the rolls if they haven't cast a ballot in seven years and don't respond to an inquiry in the mail to confirm their address. Another law requires voter information in registration applications to mirror information on file at the Georgia Department of Driver Services and Social Security Administration.

About 1.4 million voters were removed from Georgia's rolls after 2012. Yet black voter registration increased to 68.4% last year from 62.3% in 2014. White voter registration increased by a mere 0.7 percentage points to 66.8%. Pruning the rolls also didn't reduce black turnout. Nearly 60% of blacks voted last fall—up from 43% in 2014—compared to 56% of whites.

ADVERTISEMENT

Like Democrat Stacey Abrams in Georgia, Florida Democrat Andrew Gillum blamed his loss for the governorship on GOP voter intimidation. "Voter disenfranchisement doesn't just show up when you put dogs on people or water hoses, or block entrances, that's not the only form of voter disenfranchisement," Mr. Gillum told a Baptist church a week after the election.

Yet black turnout increased to 47.2% from 44% in 2014, though there was a bigger jump among Hispanics (eight percentage points) and whites (10 percentage points). According to exit polls, Mr. Gillum underperformed former Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson among black women by nine points, perhaps because of his vocal opposition to school choice. This may have cost him the election.

Democrats also claim that reducing early voting discriminates against minorities, but Hispanics were as likely as whites to cast early ballots last fall. Blacks were most likely to vote on Election Day. Higher incomes and education levels were associated with early voting. So was age. Limiting early voting inconveniences folks who are more likely to be Republican.

There's also no evidence that voter ID requirements suppressed minority turnout. After the 2016 election, Missouri and Iowa adopted such laws to prevent voter fraud. Black turnout increased in both including by a stunning 21 percentage points in Iowa.

ADVERTISEMENT

Democrats howl about voter suppression to portray Republicans as racist to stoke minority turnout for Democrats. It's a divisive form of politics. Their losses in Florida and Georgia suggest that inflaming racial resentment may turn off voters they need to win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on May 21, 2020, 12:58:39 PM
Remarkable that people in the world have an issue with ID requirements for voting. It should be the law everywhere to prevent voter fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2020, 01:08:01 PM
All those two pieces show (if their data is true) whitey is that any alleged attempts at voter suppression in those cases failed, at least when it came to reducing turnout.

One example - why were the GOP so determined to shut down Sunday voting in some southern states early in the last decade? It wasn't a direct assault on black voters and their "souls to the polls" drives? That the Dems fought back successfully against these moves in some cases doesn't mean that they weren't trying.

Why use a sledge hammer instead of a scalpel with voter purges? Plenty of accounts of large proportions of minority voters getting wrongly disenfranchised through this.

I have no issue with voter IDs, as long as they make sure anyone who wants to get one can get it, even if they're poor and can't afford it. But why are some IDs ok, and others not? Why is a gun license fine, but a college ID not? Nothing to do with the likely political leanings of the holders?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2020, 05:58:40 PM
Q-Anon appears to be gaining ground in the GOP.

Their candidate for the US Senate this year in Oregon is an sympathizer. She won the primary by almost 20 points.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/5/20/21264925/jo-rae-perkins-qanon-us-senate-oregon (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/5/20/21264925/jo-rae-perkins-qanon-us-senate-oregon)

Of course she's trying to run away from her comments now, albeit reluctantly; she has released a statement comparing Q-Anon to Bill Gates and George Soros! :o ;D

https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1263475876408307712 (https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1263475876408307712)

Anit-vaxxer too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 21, 2020, 07:43:56 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 21, 2020, 12:58:39 PM
Remarkable that people in the world have an issue with ID requirements for voting. It should be the law everywhere to prevent voter fraud.

"Voter fraud" is an almost nonexistent problem. Voter suppression is by far the bigger problem. It's got nothing to do with electoral integrity and everything to do with insisting that black and minority voters have to produce IDs that are made all but impossible for them to obtain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 21, 2020, 07:52:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 21, 2020, 07:43:56 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 21, 2020, 12:58:39 PM
Remarkable that people in the world have an issue with ID requirements for voting. It should be the law everywhere to prevent voter fraud.

"Voter fraud" is an almost nonexistent problem. Voter suppression is by far the bigger problem. It's got nothing to do with electoral integrity and everything to do with insisting that black and minority voters have to produce IDs that are made all but impossible for them to obtain.
why is it impossible to get an Id card
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 21, 2020, 08:49:20 PM
And Biden is the senile one - https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1263524876658360326?s=19
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2020, 09:05:46 PM
Steve Schmidt's comment in that thread:

https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1263099694697320453 (https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1263099694697320453)

Hadn't ever thought of that.

In fairness, there are a lot of presidents whose administrations are not remembered fondly and some who are barely remembered at all (Trump will NOT feature in THAT category!), but who knows? It depends on who the president is. Someone else with autocratic, demagogic, populist, conspiratorial leanings may well revere a man like Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 21, 2020, 09:45:05 PM
"The year after the photo identification law took effect, the Alabama Law Enforcement Agency announced that it would close 31 driver's license offices, one of the primary places where Alabamians could obtain photo identification. The closings were in response to budget cuts, but there was a clear racial pattern.

(https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2018/06/20/alabama-closures/d4aacb8b3cb9773b3518f8a80e0fa3c6c9c55d6f/alabama-map-2-desktop.png)

Of the 10 counties with the highest percentages of African-American voters, eight lost offices. Of the 10 counties with the lowest percentages, only three lost offices.

A federal investigation found that the closings caused "a disparate and adverse impact on the basis of race." Alabama reopened the offices and agreed to increase their hours in several majority-black counties."

Seven Ways Alabama Has Made It Harder to Vote (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/politics/voting-rights-alabama.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 21, 2020, 09:46:36 PM
In fact here's the full article:

Seven Ways Alabama Has Made It Harder to Vote

Five years ago, the Supreme Court struck down a key part of the landmark Voting Rights Act. Since then, Alabama has enacted a slew of restrictive voting laws and policies.


Five years after the Supreme Court invalidated the Voting Rights Act's requirement that certain states get federal approval to change their election laws, there are few places where the results are clearer than in Alabama, where the lawsuit began.

Alabama has enacted a slew of restrictive laws and policies, many of which disproportionately affect African-Americans, Latinos and other marginalized groups. In this, it stands out only in degree, not in kind: All over the country, state legislators are making it harder to vote. State officials say the voting measures are intended to prevent election fraud.

Here is the landscape of voting rights five years after the lawsuit, Shelby County v. Holder, through the lens of the state that started it.

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

2013
1. A photo identification law moves forward.
Within 24 hours of the Supreme Court's ruling, Alabama announced that in 2014, it would start requiring photo identification to vote under a law passed in 2011 but stymied by the Voting Rights Act. The number of states with similar laws has since ballooned.


Unlike some other states, Alabama accepts student, tribal and some employee identification, which minority voters are disproportionately likely to rely on. It also offers free photo identification to people who don't have any. A district court judge noted this in upholding the measure in January, concluding, "It is so easy to get a photo ID in Alabama, no one is prevented from voting."

Experts found, however, that among registered Alabama voters, blacks and Hispanics were more likely than whites to lack photo identification. An appeal of the district court ruling is in progress, but the law remains in effect.


Secretary of State John Merrill said in an interview on Wednesday that this and other laws had not suppressed the vote in Alabama. He said that more than a million new voters had registered since he took office in 2015, and that a record 2.14 million Alabamians participated in the 2016 election — though as a percentage of registered voters, turnout was slightly lower in 2016 than in 2012.

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

"Clearly, people are entitled to their own opinion, but they're not entitled to their own facts," Mr. Merrill said. "We've broken every record in the history of the state for participation. It's clear what has occurred."

2015
2. Driver's license offices are closed in black areas.
The year after the photo identification law took effect, the Alabama Law Enforcement Agency announced that it would close 31 driver's license offices, one of the primary places where Alabamians could obtain photo identification. The closings were in response to budget cuts, but there was a clear racial pattern.


Of the 10 counties with the highest percentages of African-American voters, eight lost offices. Of the 10 counties with the lowest percentages, only three lost offices.

A federal investigation found that the closings caused "a disparate and adverse impact on the basis of race." Alabama reopened the offices and agreed to increase their hours in several majority-black counties.

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

2016
3. Officials push for a proof-of-citizenship mandate.
In January 2016, Alabama received permission from a federal election official to require proof of citizenship to register to vote in state and local elections, though a judge later blocked the change.

If enforced, this requirement would create a dual system in which the criteria to vote in state and local elections would be stricter than in federal elections, where proof of citizenship is not required. Only one state, Arizona, currently enforces such a system, but several other states have tried. Just this week, a federal district judge struck down Kansas' proof-of-citizenship law.


Asked in an interview Wednesday whether his office had found any noncitizens on Alabama's voter rolls, Mr. Merrill said he was not aware of any.

4. Dozens of polling places are closed.
By November 2016, Alabama had at least 66 fewer polling places than it did at the time of the Shelby ruling in 2013, according to a study. Because only 18 of Alabama's 67 counties were examined, it is not clear whether there was a racial pattern.

Locally, however, there have been some damning moves. For instance, Daphne, a city of 26,000 near Mobile, eliminated three of its five polling places in 2016, disproportionately affecting one of two districts with a significant number of black voters. A Reuters investigation also found racially disparate closings in Georgia. 
ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

Nationwide, nearly 3,000 polling places closed between 2012 and 2016. More than 860 of the closings were in seven states, including Alabama, where some or all counties were subject to federal oversight before Shelby.

5. A get-out-the-vote group is hamstrung.
In September 2016, a federal appeals court upheld a 2010 Alabama law that banned money transfers from one political action committee to another.

The stated intent was to guard against corruption, but the law also hurt the state's largest black political organization: the Alabama Democratic Conference, which works to turn out black voters. Half or more of its revenue used to come from other political entities.

"It's cut down on money for advertisements, cut down on money on the ground, cut down on money to employ people," said Joe L. Reed, the A.D.C.'s state chairman. "It's just a whole lot of things we would do and could do, we can't do now."

2017
6. Voter rolls are purged.
In 2017, after mailing postcards to every registered voter, Alabama officials listed more than 340,000 voters as inactive, a precursor to removal from the rolls if they don't vote in the next four years.

Many states use a similar process to identify voters who have moved, but it can be unreliable. And while inactive voters who show up to the polls are supposed to be allowed to vote normally after verifying their registration details, workers wrongly forced many of them to cast provisional ballots in the U.S. Senate special election, according to the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story


In fact, in the August primaries, at least two legislators — U.S. Representative Mo Brooks, a Republican, and State Representative Patricia Todd, a Democrat — discovered that they had been marked inactive, though both were able to vote after updating their information.

7. Felon re-enfranchisement is not publicized.
In 2017, Gov. Kay Ivey signed legislation re-enfranchising thousands of people convicted of felonies. Alabama officials estimated that the change affected 60,000 people.

But Mr. Merrill refused to use state resources to publicize it, or to automatically register people who were turned away before it passed — and a district judge said he wouldn't order him to.

Advocacy groups worry that many affected Alabamians don't know about the change. Mr. Merrill's office has no statistics on how many re-enfranchised people have since registered to vote, but he said he had seen no spikes in weekly voter registration numbers.

2018
After five years, 2018 has been something of a lull in the storm of new voting laws in Alabama. But voting rights groups are bracing for 2019, when the state legislature will reconvene.



"We certainly expect there will be more coming," said Randall Marshall, executive director of the A.C.L.U. of Alabama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 11:08:46 PM
Acccording to the latest polling, Joe Biden leads Donald Trump 81-3 (eighty one - three) among blacks.

Usually, the margin of error with polls such as these is 3%, so it's statistically possible Trump could be on 0% with blacks.

Could anybody maybe try to explain why Donald Trump and the Republican party in general have such consistently terrible ratings among black people?

What are the reasons for this, like?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 11:30:54 PM
Ignore the raving lunatic living on Earth 2. We all know who I'm talking about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 11:37:59 PM
The answer is no, obviously.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYhAvxQU8AA-Rst?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 11:56:51 PM
Pretty appropriate summing up of the last poster.

(https://i.imgflip.com/27ixg8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:00:11 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 11:37:59 PM
The answer is no, obviously.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYhAvxQU8AA-Rst?format=jpg&name=large)

Romney/Ryan beat Obama/Biden in the same county by 42% in 2012

Rick Scott beat Nelson by 53% in 2018 Senate Race

https://www.libertyelections.com/m/Results-Statistics/Election-Results


But the bad orange guy somehow must have stolen the election.


And McCain/Palin beat Obama/Biden by 45 points in 2008

https://mobile.twitter.com/magnameter/status/1122566351674122240/photo/1

Maybe the people who register as Democrats are actually Republicans,  who vote for the worst Democrat candidate  in the Democratic  Primary and then trounce then in the general election. I've done this a few times myself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 22, 2020, 12:19:47 AM
Biden ahead by 8 points on the Fox News poll... he's basically doing a Boris and hiding while his opposite number makes all the mistakes.

The calibre of politicians these days leaves a lot to be desired!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 22, 2020, 12:40:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 11:08:46 PM
Acccording to the latest polling, Joe Biden leads Donald Trump 81-3 (eighty one - three) among blacks.

Usually, the margin of error with polls such as these is 3%, so it's statistically possible Trump could be on 0% with blacks.

Could anybody maybe try to explain why Donald Trump and the Republican party in general have such consistently terrible ratings among black people?

What are the reasons for this, like?
Any takers?

Can't believe the Trumpbots don't have a opinion on this, they seem to have an opinion on everything they else they know SFA about!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 22, 2020, 12:43:38 AM
When are we going to see the transcripts of the conversations between the two agents of the Kremlin, Flynn and Kislyak?

And why not show the transcripts of the other agents of the Kremlin, Trump and Putin said to each other?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 22, 2020, 12:52:34 AM
Trump playing to Nazis again:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1263574148451729408

Acyn Torabi
@Acyn
· 2h
The President says the founder of Ford has good bloodlines.. If you're not familiar with Henry Ford, I would encourage you to read more about him and specifically his actions during WW2

https://twitter.com/jewishaction/status/1263589484559360001

Bend the Arc: Jewish Action
@jewishaction
·
1h
Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer who wrote "The International Jew, the World's Foremost Problem."

Hitler called Ford an "inspiration" & gave him the highest Nazi medal for foreigners.

Trump praising Ford's "good bloodlines" = a dog-whistle to antisemites & white nationalists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:44:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 22, 2020, 12:43:38 AM
When are we going to see the transcripts of the conversations between the two agents of the Kremlin, Flynn and Kislyak?

And why not show the transcripts of the other agents of the Kremlin, Trump and Putin said to each other?

They're fighting hard to keep the Mueller grand jury redactions secret too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 02:51:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?

Them main elements of the dossier were fabrications and exaggerations. The dossier was initiated by and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. It was used by the FBI to surveil a campaign and by the media undermine a duly elected president.

And you are okay with all that....,





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 22, 2020, 04:05:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?
if the Russians were feeding Steele with false information to hurt trump then how would trump be colluding with Russia to get elected  at the same time , was Vlad just sitting back laughing at the whole lot of them .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2020, 04:31:25 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 11:56:51 PM
Pretty appropriate summing up of the last poster.

(https://i.imgflip.com/27ixg8.jpg)

Oh come on. Truth4freedom.wordpress.com says it, so it HAS to be true!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 11:16:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 02:51:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?

Them main elements of the dossier were fabrications and exaggerations. The dossier was initiated by and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. It was used by the FBI to surveil a campaign and by the media undermine a duly elected president.

And you are okay with all that....,

So it wasn't fabricated by the campaign. You're repeatedly on here saying it was fabricated by the campaign as if Hillary Clinton and John Podesta sat down themselves and made shit up out of whole cloth. And as if Trump was some innocent boy scout who had never even heard of Russia but was nonetheless being falsely maligned by the darkest, most malevalent conspiracy ever to be unleashed on the political landscape of America. Steele went to the FBI due to HIS concerns about what he was learning. NOT the Clinton campaign. Or Fusion GPS (who were initially hired by and started looking into Trump and Russia at the behest of a Republican).

You really think if the Clinton campaign knew the FBI was investigating Trump during the campaign it wouldn't have been screaming about it? How come Comey kept THAT little nugget secret, but not Weiner's laptop? Why was the NYC FBI office not leaking stuff to the Clintons instead of Giuliani in the run-up to the election?

And I've never said I was ok with false allegations.

However, this absolutely doesn't keep me up at night because it is virtually impossible to know what's true and what's not. Multiple investigations have found that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, including those of the McConnell-led Senate. Trump's people DID meet with the Russians to try to get dirt. Manafort had all kinds of dodgy and corrupt connections with Russian and Ukranian oligarchs and interests. Trump himself has financial ties to Russia and is completely opaque about his finances beyond the boasting and bluster about his wealth (they were in the f**king Supreme Court last week still trying to keep everything secret). Mueller reported repeated lies and obstruction by Trump and his associates when it came to their contacts with Russia, wikileaks and so on. Shocking that you can't prove something when everyone circles the wagons and you can't follow the money. And when of course the big man himself couldn't be interviewed because.. you know... perjury trap! I could go on...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 11:21:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 22, 2020, 04:05:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?
if the Russians were feeding Steele with false information to hurt trump then how would trump be colluding with Russia to get elected  at the same time , was Vlad just sitting back laughing at the whole lot of them .

Possibly.

Or maybe Russian sources aren't all a single homogeneous body with the same motivations and interests. Spying and intelligence gathering wouldn't work very well if everything in each country was being tightly controlled by the man at the head of the government, would it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 22, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
One campaign fabricates a opposition research report[1] and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents[2] who wiretap the other campaign[3]. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

Can you supply citations for [1], [2] & [3] please?


Again - even if all that you allege is true - it still pales into insignificance compared to what Trump has done.


edit: Also, if I am interpreting it right, could that be written as:
- Political party hires private investigators to investigate a political opponent with questionable background[11].
- Investigation reports worrying activity which may be criminal in nature[12].
- Political party then hands the report off to criminal investigators due to the issues raised[13].
- Criminal investigators then investigate that opponent as they see fit[14]

[11] as opposed to using their political influence to get law enforcement to do their bidding.
[12] leaving aside the competence of the investigators, the political party are not in a position to judge that.
[13] as opposed to hiding potential evidence into serious criminal activity?
[14] should the political party that started the private investigation then interfere with a criminal investigation?


What should they have done differently? Put yourself in their shoes and assume that you have serious misgivings about a political opponent, what would you do?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing

If there is something wrong with my interpretation, address it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing

If there is something wrong with my interpretation, address it.

So if the Trump campaign hires and pays an oppo research firm to go to the Ukraine and generate a dossier of unverified and outrageous allegations against Joe Biden you'll be on board with that.


Then let's say the Trump campaign (or the oppo research firm they employed), then shares that research with rogue elements within the FBI who then  use it as the basis for FISA warrants to wiretap the Biden campaign you'd also be on board with that.

Then let's say these rogue FBI agents committed 17 "errors" during the FISA application process, which include forgery, perjury and concealment.....many of which were designed to conceal the true nature and origin of the dossier from the FISA judges  you'd be on board with that

And then to top it off the dossier becomes a key element to open a Special Counsel investigation of newly elected President Biden and anyone associated with him. The scope of the SC nvestigation is so broad that they can essentially go back decades and investigate all sorts of things completely unrelated to what's in the dossier, you'll be on board with that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 22, 2020, 01:25:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 22, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
One campaign fabricates a opposition research report[1] and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents[2] who wiretap the other campaign[3]. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

Can you supply citations for [1], [2] & [3] please?


Again - even if all that you allege is true - it still pales into insignificance compared to what Trump has done.


edit: Also, if I am interpreting it right, could that be written as:
- Political party hires private investigators to investigate a political opponent with questionable background[11].
- Investigation reports worrying activity which may be criminal in nature[12].
- Political party then hands the report off to criminal investigators due to the issues raised[13].
- Criminal investigators then investigate that opponent as they see fit[14]

[11] as opposed to using their political influence to get law enforcement to do their bidding.
[12] leaving aside the competence of the investigators, the political party are not in a position to judge that.
[13] as opposed to hiding potential evidence into serious criminal activity?
[14] should the political party that started the private investigation then interfere with a criminal investigation?


What should they have done differently? Put yourself in their shoes and assume that you have serious misgivings about a political opponent, what would you do?
was trump not just impeached for that ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:31:22 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 22, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
One campaign fabricates a opposition research report[1] and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents[2] who wiretap the other campaign[3]. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

Can you supply citations for [1], [2] & [3] please?


Again - even if all that you allege is true - it still pales into insignificance compared to what Trump has done.


edit: Also, if I am interpreting it right, could that be written as:
- Political party hires private investigators to investigate a political opponent with questionable background[11].
- Investigation reports worrying activity which may be criminal in nature[12].
- Political party then hands the report off to criminal investigators due to the issues raised[13].
- Criminal investigators then investigate that opponent as they see fit[14]

[11] as opposed to using their political influence to get law enforcement to do their bidding.
[12] leaving aside the competence of the investigators, the political party are not in a position to judge that.
[13] as opposed to hiding potential evidence into serious criminal activity?
[14] should the political party that started the private investigation then interfere with a criminal investigation?


What should they have done differently? Put yourself in their shoes and assume that you have serious misgivings about a political opponent, what would you do?

So if the Trump campaign hires and pays an oppo research firm to go to the Ukraine and generate a dossier of unverified and outrageous allegations against Joe Biden you'll be on board with that.


Then let's say the Trump campaign (or the oppo research firm they employed), then shares that research with rogue elements within the FBI who then  use it as the basis for FISA warrants to wiretap the Biden campaign you'd also be on board with that.

Then let's say these rogue FBI agents committed 17 "errors" during the FISA application process, which include forgery, perjury and concealment.....many of which were designed to conceal the true nature and origin of the dossier from the FISA judges  you'd be on board with that

And then to top it off the dossier becomes a key element to open a Special Counsel investigation of newly elected President Biden and anyone associated with him. The scope of the SC nvestigation is so broad that they can essentially go back decades and investigate all sorts of things completely unrelated to what's in the dossier, you'll be on board with that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 22, 2020, 01:43:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing

If there is something wrong with my interpretation, address it.

So if the Trump campaign hires and pays an oppo research firm to go to the Ukraine and generate a dossier of unverified and outrageous allegations against Joe Biden you'll be on board with that.


Then let's say the Trump campaign (or the oppo research firm they employed), then shares that research with rogue elements within the FBI who then  use it as the basis for FISA warrants to wiretap the Biden campaign you'd also be on board with that.

Then let's say these rogue FBI agents committed 17 "errors" during the FISA application process, which include forgery, perjury and concealment.....many of which were designed to conceal the true nature and origin of the dossier from the FISA judges  you'd be on board with that

And then to top it off the dossier becomes a key element to open a Special Counsel investigation of newly elected President Biden and anyone associated with him. The scope of the SC nvestigation is so broad that they can essentially go back decades and investigate all sorts of things completely unrelated to what's in the dossier, you'll be on board with that

Rudi Giuliani literally has been travelling back and forth from the Ukraine over the past 6-8 months doing exactly that!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:47:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing

If there is something wrong with my interpretation, address it.

So if the Trump campaign hires and pays an oppo research firm to go to the Ukraine and generate a dossier of unverified and outrageous allegations against Joe Biden you'll be on board with that.

Then let's say the Trump campaign (or the oppo research firm they employed), then shares that research with rogue elements within the FBI who then  use it as the basis for FISA warrants to wiretap the Biden campaign you'd also be on board with that.

Then let's say these rogue FBI agents committed 17 "errors" during the FISA application process, which include forgery, perjury and concealment.....many of which were designed to conceal the true nature and origin of the dossier from the FISA judges  you'd be on board with that

And then to top it off the dossier becomes a key element to open a Special Counsel investigation of newly elected President Biden and anyone associated with him. The scope of the SC nvestigation is so broad that they can essentially go back decades and investigate all sorts of things completely unrelated to what's in the dossier, you'll be on board with that

If there was legitimate reason to believe that Biden was potentially compromised by or conspiring with the Ukranians to influence the election, I would have no problem with the FBI opening an investigation or with a campaign or the source their contractor worked with passing on such information for them to look at. If Biden subsequently stonewalled the investigation at every turn and tried to undermine it and dangle pardons to encourage non-cooperation, I would have no problem with the negative publicity and congressional oversight it would invite. I might not like the outcome in that it would strengthen the chances of having to live under Republican policies, many of which I find abhorrent, but that's a separate issue. You lie down with dogs, you might get fleas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
Fair enough, And what if the allegations against Biden were mainly unfounded and were in fact Russian disinformation fed to Trumps campaign proxy  by Russian Intelligence, how would you feel about that dossier being used as the basis to wiretap Bidens campaign (and the agents involved did everything in the process to conceal the true origin of the document from the FISA court)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
Fair enough, And what if the allegations against Biden were mainly unfounded and were in fact Russian disinformation fed to Trumps campaign proxy  by Russian Intelligence, how would you feel about that dossier being used as the basis to wiretap Bidens campaign (and the agents involved did everything in the process to conceal the true origin of the document from the FISA court)

That's a separate issue. Investigate it, and if it is suspected there was deliberate wrong doing, prosecute those agents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 02:42:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
Fair enough, And what if the allegations against Biden were mainly unfounded and were in fact Russian disinformation fed to Trumps campaign proxy  by Russian Intelligence, how would you feel about that dossier being used as the basis to wiretap Bidens campaign (and the agents involved did everything in the process to conceal the true origin of the document from the FISA court)

That's a separate issue. Investigate it, and if it is suspected there was deliberate wrong doing, prosecute those agents.

And what about the Special Counsel investigation which was also  based in large part in the false dossier? What should happen with that.  Rose stein admitted under oath that he knew it was false, yet included it as justification for the appointment of the SC

And how about if all of Trumps spokespersons has gone on air 24/7 regurgitating elements of the debunked Biden dossier that they knew to be false.....you'd be fine with that too?

This
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 02:53:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 02:42:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
Fair enough, And what if the allegations against Biden were mainly unfounded and were in fact Russian disinformation fed to Trumps campaign proxy  by Russian Intelligence, how would you feel about that dossier being used as the basis to wiretap Bidens campaign (and the agents involved did everything in the process to conceal the true origin of the document from the FISA court)

That's a separate issue. Investigate it, and if it is suspected there was deliberate wrong doing, prosecute those agents.

And what about the Special Counsel investigation which was also  based in large part in the false dossier? What should happen with that.  Rose stein admitted under oath that he knew it was false, yet included it as justification for the appointment of the SC

And how about if all of Trumps spokespersons has gone on air 24/7 regurgitating elements of the debunked Biden dossier that they knew to be false.....you'd be fine with that too?

This

There was plenty of other grounds for the special counsel, not just the dossier.

REP. GOWDY: I actually don't think it has any impact on the Russia probe for this reason —

MARGARET BRENNAN: The memo has no impact on the Russia probe?

REP. GOWDY: No-- not to me, it doesn't — and I was pretty integrally involved in the drafting of it. There is a Russia investigation without a dossier. So to the extent the memo deals with the dossier and the FISA process, the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower. The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos' meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn't have anything to do with obstruction of justice. So there's going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier.

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/04/583122003/gowdy-there-s-going-to-be-a-russia-probe-even-without-a-dossier (https://www.npr.org/2018/02/04/583122003/gowdy-there-s-going-to-be-a-russia-probe-even-without-a-dossier)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 03:40:03 PM
And what would you say to the former members of Trumps National Security team who publicly state on National TV that the Biden Ukrainian dossier is true, but while under oath admit that very little of it is true


And what about the Republican congressional candidate, ( a former member of Trumps National Security Team) who goes on Morning Joe and claims she saw evidence with her own Two eyes of the Biden's colluding with Ukraine, yet under oath admits she saw no such evidence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 04:04:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 03:40:03 PM
And what would you say to the former members of Trumps National Security team who publicly state on National TV that the Biden Ukrainian dossier is true, but while under oath admit that very little of it is true

And what about the Republican congressional candidate, ( a former member of Trumps National Security Team) who goes on Morning Joe and claims she saw evidence with her own Two eyes of the Biden's colluding with Ukraine, yet under oath admits she saw no such evidence.

How many more of these are there going to be?

Just post the actual thing you're on about and be done with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 07:12:34 PM
"Today I'm identifying houses of worship - churches, synagogues and mosques - as essential places that provide essential services," Trump said during a hastily arranged press conference Friday. He said if governors don't abide by his request, he will "override" them.

http://hudsonvalley.news12.com/story/42164970/president-trump-calls-on-churches-to-reopen-this-weekend (http://hudsonvalley.news12.com/story/42164970/president-trump-calls-on-churches-to-reopen-this-weekend)

Someone is getting notions about the extent of his power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 07:24:32 PM
Jaysus.....did you see poor Crazy Uncle Joe put his foot in it big time today
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 07:24:32 PM
Jaysus.....did you see poor Crazy Uncle Joe put his foot in it big time today

What did he say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
'If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black'

Poorly worded, to say the least!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 22, 2020, 08:20:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
'If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black'

Poorly worded, to say the least!
joe needs to put the shades back on and head to the basement again.
The problem with voting for joe and he has said it himself is he is only a seat filler and his Vice President will be running the country in a matter of months or a year after the election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 22, 2020, 08:20:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
'If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black'

Poorly worded, to say the least!
joe needs to put the shades back on and head to the basement again.
The problem with voting for joe and he has said it himself is he is only a seat filler and his Vice President will be running the country in a matter of months or a year after the election.

Biden is a gaffe machine. Thankfully they're mostly relatively harmless, either word salad a la GW Bush or dinosaur flashbacks to another time.

I remember there being quite a few nerves about how he'd handle Palin in their debate in 2008, but he managed to pull it off without sticking his foot in it.

I honestly don't remember anything about him and Ryan in 2012.

This time out... we'll see.

Like I've said here before, the lockdown has actually been kind to him. He'll have to start venturing out soon, at least into the media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 22, 2020, 09:04:27 PM
He demolished Ryan in the debate and then gave a rousing finale at the DNC convention (while the Republicans finale was like wtf is this old guy speaking to an empty chair for-cringeworthy$
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 12:24:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 20, 2020, 12:35:45 AM
The thing is, from the evidence we've seen with our own two eyes, it's very possible that Trump genuinely does want a hell of a lot of people to die - the evidence of his entire life proves that he loves inflicting pain on other people, and his regime is full of end times cultists.
I wasn't wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/may/22/hydroxychloroquine-trumps-covid-19-cure-increases-deaths-global-study-finds

Hydroxychloroquine, the anti-malarial drug Donald Trump is taking to prevent Covid-19, has increased deaths in patients treated with it in hospitals around the world, a study has shown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 01:58:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 12:11:07 AM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1263267426420039692/j49jWDS-?format=png&name=900x900)


This study was by Columbia University. Trump has now called Columbia University a "liberal, disgraceful institution" because some of its scholars came to a conclusion he doesn't like.

Aspiring dictators always turn uncomfortable truths into questions of motive on the part of those who voice them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 24, 2020, 10:01:04 PM
Today he's basically accusing Joe Scarborough of murdering an intern twenty years ago.

Hope the GOP is proud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 10:58:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 24, 2020, 10:01:04 PM
Today he's basically accusing Joe Scarborough of murdering an intern twenty years ago.

Hope the GOP is proud.
Let's just call this for what it is. He's deliberately inciting his cultists to go and murder Scarborough. Trump has been connected to the mafia for decades so he uses mafia tactics against people he doesn't like. Physical threats, intimidation the constant spectre of violence and the flaunting of lawlessness are the core of Trump's tactics. The classic hallmarks of fascism.

And given the piss weak treatment he gets in most of the US media, it works.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2020, 04:13:10 AM
Good to see he was able to get a couple of rounds in this weekend
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 25, 2020, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2020, 04:13:10 AM
Good to see he was able to get a couple of rounds in this weekend

He's working so hard, I'm glad you don't begrudge him a little down time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 25, 2020, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 25, 2020, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 25, 2020, 04:13:10 AM
Good to see he was able to get a couple of rounds in this weekend

He's working so hard, I'm glad you don't begrudge him a little down time

Yep. It's hard work watching TV and tweeting all day. No wonder he looked so bored in every meeting. He'd rather be out on the course.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 29, 2020, 12:32:35 PM
Hows the racist face of US politics doing these days?

If this were a US reporter arrested in a foreign country - what would the outcry be like?

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protest-updates-05-28-20/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 29, 2020, 12:42:27 PM
Things getting out of hand in Minneapolis... is there a more any more accurate representation of the state of America at the minute than the Cops strapping cuffs on a CNN reporter??

I don't think Biden will be one of the great Presidents by any means but they need to get Trump out of there ASAP!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 29, 2020, 12:32:35 PM
Hows the racist face of US politics doing these days?

If this were a US reporter arrested in a foreign country - what would the outcry be like?

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protest-updates-05-28-20/index.html
The doom mongers, ie. those who have a basic understanding of history or better, should have been listened to.

Fascism is always what Trump has been about and white supremacism is what the Republican party has always been about.

Racism is what America was built on.

This isn't a new departure. This is an inevitable continuum of centuries of racism.

Never believe fascists when they make claims that show themselves in a positive light, because such claims are always lies.

Always believe fascists when they make threats about what they're going to do to others, because they're always telling the truth.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 12:54:34 PM
https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/status/1266333918858489856

Aaron Blake
@AaronBlake


12 a.m. Thursday: Trump RTs video saying "the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat."

12:53 a.m. Friday: Trump tweets "when the looting starts, the shooting starts."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 29, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
And he had the obligatory right wing "THUGS" reference in there when talking about black people.

I don't recall him wheeling it out when white right wingers, armed to the teeth with battlefield weaponry, were taking over government buildings in the past month.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
And he had the obligatory right wing "THUGS" reference in there when talking about black people.

I don't recall him wheeling it out when white right wingers, armed to the teeth with battlefield weaponry, were taking over government buildings in the past month.

I think there are some very fine people on both sides
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 29, 2020, 03:21:05 PM

   https://www.ft.com/content/b2253265-ff74-402b-8454-30e96d66d67b

   Yet there are unmistakable signs that older voters are turned off by Mr Trump's pandemic record. In late February, Mr Trump had a double-digit lead over Mr Biden among voters aged over 65. Average recent polls showed Mr Biden 10 points ahead.

By psephological standards, this is a tectonic shift. It explains why Florida, where many retirees live and Mr Trump's primary residence, shows Mr Biden with an average four-point lead. Ditto for Arizona. Mr Biden has clear leads in Michigan and Pennsylvania and a slim one in Wisconsin — the three states that tipped the balance in 2016. Even deeply Republican Georgia and Texas show Mr Biden within striking distance. Were such numbers to hold in November, Mr Trump would lose by a landslide.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
And he had the obligatory right wing "THUGS" reference in there when talking about black people.

I don't recall him wheeling it out when white right wingers, armed to the teeth with battlefield weaponry, were taking over government buildings in the past month.

I think there are some very fine people on both sides

When a PRESIDENT says when the looting starts, the shooting starts you have to got to admit that he has crossed a line (for the umpteenth time, just in brighter lights this time) call it out for what it is without bringing others into it. He wasn't forced to say that by anyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 03:30:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 02:23:34 PM

I don't recall him wheeling it out when white right wingers, armed to the teeth with battlefield weaponry, were taking over government buildings in the past month.
No, because he supported those white supremacist thugs, as he supports all white supremacist thugs.

It's the white supremacism, stoopid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
And he had the obligatory right wing "THUGS" reference in there when talking about black people.

I don't recall him wheeling it out when white right wingers, armed to the teeth with battlefield weaponry, were taking over government buildings in the past month.

I think there are some very fine people on both sides

When a PRESIDENT says when the looting starts, the shooting starts you have to got to admit that he has crossed a line (for the umpteenth time, just in brighter lights this time) call it out for what it is without bringing others into it. He wasn't forced to say that by anyone.

I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it. He's a clown and I'm not surprised he said something as stupid.

Regardless of what he said, your side would have micro dissected it and found some non existent "dog whistle" to be outraged about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 29, 2020, 03:21:05 PM

   https://www.ft.com/content/b2253265-ff74-402b-8454-30e96d66d67b

   Yet there are unmistakable signs that older voters are turned off by Mr Trump's pandemic record. In late February, Mr Trump had a double-digit lead over Mr Biden among voters aged over 65. Average recent polls showed Mr Biden 10 points ahead.

By psephological standards, this is a tectonic shift. It explains why Florida, where many retirees live and Mr Trump's primary residence, shows Mr Biden with an average four-point lead. Ditto for Arizona. Mr Biden has clear leads in Michigan and Pennsylvania and a slim one in Wisconsin — the three states that tipped the balance in 2016. Even deeply Republican Georgia and Texas show Mr Biden within striking distance. Were such numbers to hold in November, Mr Trump would lose by a landslide.

Seafoid....with all due respect, go on YouTube and watch all the experts mock Trumps chances of winning in 2016. He'll be there or there abouts in November
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
And he had the obligatory right wing "THUGS" reference in there when talking about black people.

I don't recall him wheeling it out when white right wingers, armed to the teeth with battlefield weaponry, were taking over government buildings in the past month.

I think there are some very fine people on both sides

When a PRESIDENT says when the looting starts, the shooting starts you have to got to admit that he has crossed a line (for the umpteenth time, just in brighter lights this time) call it out for what it is without bringing others into it. He wasn't forced to say that by anyone.

I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it. He's a clown and I'm not surprised he said something as stupid.

Regardless of what he said, your side would have micro dissected it and found some non existent "dog whistle" to be outraged about

I don't have any side. I don't think there's much dissecting required of that statement. He's inciting violence, I would be very concerned if I was American with that sociopath in charge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 04:02:31 PM
White right-wingers in their echo chamber tend to "lose no sleep", alright.

That would be because they literally cannot comprehend of anything outside of that little echo chamber.

We had and still have a similar phenomenon among a large section of the population in the north of Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 04:03:35 PM
I don;t know if I'm being naive here but how in hell's name have they not been able to arrest that cop yet?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 29, 2020, 04:07:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
And he had the obligatory right wing "THUGS" reference in there when talking about black people.

I don't recall him wheeling it out when white right wingers, armed to the teeth with battlefield weaponry, were taking over government buildings in the past month.

I think there are some very fine people on both sides

When a PRESIDENT says when the looting starts, the shooting starts you have to got to admit that he has crossed a line (for the umpteenth time, just in brighter lights this time) call it out for what it is without bringing others into it. He wasn't forced to say that by anyone.

I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it. He's a clown and I'm not surprised he said something as stupid.

Regardless of what he said, your side would have micro dissected it and found some non existent "dog whistle" to be outraged about

Well in this case the dog whistle is existent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 29, 2020, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 04:03:35 PM
I don;t know if I'm being naive here but how in hell's name have they not been able to arrest that cop yet?

I saw a quote, possibly from a federal investigator, that there was exculpatory evidence and that they didn't want to rush anything.

What could possibly throw doubt on the appalling, callous and (presumably) criminal conduct of that cop with the knee on the guy's neck for 8+ minutes, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 04:03:35 PM
I don;t know if I'm being naive here but how in hell's name have they not been able to arrest that cop yet?

I saw a quote, possibly from a federal investigator, that there was exculpatory evidence and that they didn't want to rush anything.

What could possibly throw doubt on the appalling, callous and (presumably) criminal conduct of that cop with the knee on the guy's neck for 8+ minutes, I'm not sure.

Wouldn't you just arrest him and determine that later? It's not as if there isn't just cause for an arrest - or is the law so different over there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 29, 2020, 04:28:36 PM
Trump would just pardon him anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 29, 2020, 04:36:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 04:07:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 29, 2020, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
And he had the obligatory right wing "THUGS" reference in there when talking about black people.

I don't recall him wheeling it out when white right wingers, armed to the teeth with battlefield weaponry, were taking over government buildings in the past month.

I think there are some very fine people on both sides

When a PRESIDENT says when the looting starts, the shooting starts you have to got to admit that he has crossed a line (for the umpteenth time, just in brighter lights this time) call it out for what it is without bringing others into it. He wasn't forced to say that by anyone.

I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it. He's a clown and I'm not surprised he said something as stupid.

Regardless of what he said, your side would have micro dissected it and found some non existent "dog whistle" to be outraged about

Well in this case the dog whistle is existent.

Yes-I agree

"Thug" does seem to have taken on a meaning it didn't have in the past, but he's so out of touch I highly doubt he or his politically incorrect supporters even know that. You're giving him way too much credit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 29, 2020, 04:57:56 PM
What happened to George Floyd is reprehensible and the cop should be charged with manslaughter at the least , burning down your neighborhood won't help your community.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 04:59:21 PM
He knew what he was doing, it should be murder.

Burning down your own community isn't the right thing, but peaceful protesting ain't working.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 05:11:43 PM
Violence in the face of hundreds of years of continuing systemic racism is entirely understandable.

How African-Americans have remained so overwhelmingly peace-loving in the face of utterly evil injustice and atrocity committed by whites throughout American history, I don't know.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 29, 2020, 05:18:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 05:11:43 PM
Violence in the face of hundreds of years of continuing systemic racism is entirely understandable.

How African-Americans have remained so overwhelmingly peace-loving in the face of utterly evil injustice and atrocity committed by whites throughout American history, I don't know.

Very much so and also the Native Americans, all but wiped them out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 29, 2020, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 29, 2020, 04:57:56 PM
What happened to George Floyd is reprehensible and the cop should be charged with manslaughter at the least , burning down your neighborhood won't help your community.

Of course.

And there's obviously some opportunists taking advantage to loot.

But, I can sympathize with the desperation and lashing out too.

Maybe Kapernick had the right approach. Unfortunately a lot of people just didn't want to hear it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 29, 2020, 05:33:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 05:11:43 PM
Violence in the face of hundreds of years of continuing systemic racism is entirely understandable.

How African-Americans have remained so overwhelmingly peace-loving in the face of utterly evil injustice and atrocity committed by whites throughout American history, I don't know.

I have been doing a lot of reading during the pandemic about Jim Crown and the Civil Rights movement and politics in general

There is a need for some type of truth commission like they had in South Africa after apartheid.

The African American communities need serious infusions of capital and resources. Let's bring as many jobs back from overseas as possible and give a job to everyone who wants one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 05:40:42 PM
The same guy who says he's studying Jim Crow and the Civil Rights movement doesn't have a clue how the Trump-glorifying racist rot he's posted here for years is part of the problem, that he is current day Jim Crow personified with his constant excuses, gaslighting, both sidesing, obfuscations, denials and lies.

To black people and to any reasonable people, ie. anti-racist people, because if you're not anti-racist you're not reasonable -  Trump, the Republicans, and people who refuse to come to terms with both America's history and its present are Jim Crow.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 29, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
That's a bit harsh there Sid.

I don't agree with whitey on much politically, but I don't ever recall him condoning or defending any racist nonsense here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 29, 2020, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 05:40:42 PM
The same guy who says he's studying Jim Crow and the Civil Rights movement doesn't have a clue how the Trump-glorifying racist rot he's posted here for years is part of the problem, that he is current day Jim Crow personified with his constant excuses, gaslighting, both sidesing, obfuscations, denials and lies.

To black people and to any reasonable people, ie. anti-racist people, because if you're not anti-racist you're not reasonable -  Trump, the Republicans, and people who refuse to come to terms with both America's history and its present are Jim Crow.

I don't know who's posts you've been reading but they're not mine if that's what your take away is

So saying the FBI shouldn't  have surveilled Trumps campaign based on a fake dossier is somehow glorifying Trumps racism .......

Saying pointing out that the FBI made 17 "errors" in their FISA applications including perjury and forgery Is somehow glorifying Trumps racism

Saying that losing General Flynn's 302 and having an FBI attorney (who wasn't present at his interview) edit the transcript is a serious violation of the law

LOL-and that's why, in a nutshell, you guys could very easily lose again in November if you keep it up

AGREE WITH US ON EVERYTHING OR YOURE A RACIST
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
That's a bit harsh there Sid.

I don't agree with whitey on much politically, but I don't ever recall him condoning or defending any racist nonsense here.
Not a bit harsh - the sort of gaslighting, denials, obfuscation, lies and dog whistles he specialises in - and indeed conservative politics in general - are all part of the rotten, racist tapestry of America.

You're either a racist or an anti-racist. Anti-racism involves outright and consistent repudiation of Trump and the Republican party and calling them out for what they are - a fascist, racist, white supremacist cesspit. The Democrats are by no means clean either, because so much of white America in general refuses to face up to reality - but the Republicans are the Jim Crow party.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 06:22:34 PM
The previous post but one is an example of the "mindset" (if you could call it a mind) of who somebody lives on Earth 2, an insane, paranoid, thought bubble of fake victimhood where those who inhabit it literally believe whatever they want to believe.

Such people do not deal in reality or fact and have rejected thinking for a comforting bubble of racist white supremacism.

Even now, all that poster can think about, is the racist, white supremacist, kleptocratic, openly dictatorial powers-pursuing Trump regime as victim - fake victim.

The Trump thought bubble, the cult, in a nutshell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 29, 2020, 06:25:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
That's a bit harsh there Sid.

I don't agree with whitey on much politically, but I don't ever recall him condoning or defending any racist nonsense here.
Not a bit harsh - the sort of gaslighting, denials, obfuscation, lies and dog whistles he specialises in - and indeed conservative politics in general - are all part of the rotten, racist tapestry of America.

You're either a racist or an anti-racist. Anti-racism involves outright and consistent repudiation of Trump and the Republican party and calling them out for what they are - a fascist, racist, white supremacist cesspit. The Democrats are by no means clean either, because so much of white America in general refuses to face up to reality - but the Republicans are the Jim Crow party.

And Sid, this is exactly the type of codswallop that prompted some people, who otherwise wouldn't have,  to vote from Trump in the first place back in 2016.  Keep it up and you'll have another 4 years to endure

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 06:26:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 29, 2020, 06:25:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 29, 2020, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 29, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
That's a bit harsh there Sid.

I don't agree with whitey on much politically, but I don't ever recall him condoning or defending any racist nonsense here.
Not a bit harsh - the sort of gaslighting, denials, obfuscation, lies and dog whistles he specialises in - and indeed conservative politics in general - are all part of the rotten, racist tapestry of America.

You're either a racist or an anti-racist. Anti-racism involves outright and consistent repudiation of Trump and the Republican party and calling them out for what they are - a fascist, racist, white supremacist cesspit. The Democrats are by no means clean either, because so much of white America in general refuses to face up to reality - but the Republicans are the Jim Crow party.

And Sid, this is exactly the type of codswallop that prompted some people, who otherwise wouldn't have,  to vote from Trump in the first place back in 2016.  Keep it up and you'll have another 4 years to endure
There you go J70.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 29, 2020, 06:27:15 PM
There you go......what?


There seem to be boogey men hiding in every closet Sid.....take a walk and relax a little

(Oh, but hold on, maybe I'm now a homophobe for using the work "closet", or perhaps I'm guilty of some type of "cultural misappropriation')


Maybe if I said something was a witch hunt, you'd be outraged on behalf of all the witches and wicans

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 30, 2020, 09:13:16 AM
What alot of posters dont seem to very au fait with is how people feel about politics in the us, and that seems to be what whitey is trying to familarise people with.

Anyone taking a black and white view point on us politics needs to get out a bit and talk to people esp people that have differing opinions to themselves. Then again if your posting from ireland your probably seeing america thru the prison of common media narratives...and you may have a perspective set in concrete that will be very difficult to shift without talking to normal people who have an opinion that you may think is nuts.
Bottom line is this... people have differing opinions they mostly all come from a genuine place, and if you dont like those opinions it doesn't mean they're the devil.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 09:20:38 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 30, 2020, 09:13:16 AM
What alot of posters dont seem to very au fait with is how people feel about politics in the us, and that seems to be what whitey is trying to familarise people with.

Anyone taking a black and white view point on us politics needs to get out a bit and talk to people esp people that have differing opinions to themselves. Then again if your posting from ireland your probably seeing america thru the prison of common media narratives...and you may have a perspective set in concrete that will be very difficult to shift without talking to normal people who have an opinion that you may think is nuts.
Bottom line is this... people have differing opinions they mostly all come from a genuine place, and if you dont like those opinions it doesn't mean they're the devil.
This is complete bullshit.

The world is intimately familiar with how Trump and Trump supporters think. We've constantly had it shoved down our throats for the last five years. We see it every minute of every day. And there is no legitimacy to it. None whatsoever.

This is a black and white situation, just like what happened in 1930s Germany was a black and white situation. This is kleptocracy. This is corruption. This is brainwashing. This is naked racism. This is fascism.

This has to end.

No legitimacy whatsoever should be afforded to this cancerous, fascist ideology, because it has none.

It is the spearhead of a massive international power grab by the far right to enable them to live like kings and the rest to live like serfs.

It is nihilism, it is evil.

Call it for what it is.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 30, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 30, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.
All of your friends who are Trump supporters are happy to put up with endemic and vicious racism and the destruction of objective truth. They're happy to put up with massive corruption and kleptocracy. They're happy to put up with an all out assault on science.

They're happy to put up with fascism, in other words.

And if you support Trump, so are you.

Don't f**king patronise me about what I can see with my own two eyes.

Have you considered that the people who live amongst a majority ruling class intent on keeping minoritiees down with a jackboot are the very worst people to judge what is actually going on, and to evaluate what they support?

Your rhetoric is the exact same as those who say "you don't live in East Belfast so you have no understanding of why people support the DUP", "you don't live in a white area of South Africa so you have no understanding of why people support apartheid", or "you don't live in 1930s Germany so you have no idea why people support Hitler".

Judging by your user name you come from Omagh. Somebody from Omagh should have more reason than most to understand the dangers of sectarian and ethnic fanaticism. They should have more reason than most to understand the effects of a majority ruling class who treat ethnic minorities like shit, and what it does to those minorities.

Frankly, any Irish person who supports Trump or would even consider doing so is betraying their own history - and the history of the struggle of Irish people to be free and to be treated justly.










Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 30, 2020, 05:40:10 PM
Rapper Killer Mike gives impassioned speech during Atlanta protests

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU)

Powerful stuff
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 30, 2020, 05:46:58 PM
Quote from: glens73 on May 30, 2020, 05:40:10 PM
Rapper Killer Mike gives impassioned speech during Atlanta protests

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU (ftp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU)

Powerful stuff

Your link is an FTP link rather than a https link
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on May 30, 2020, 06:02:46 PM
Quote from: dec on May 30, 2020, 05:46:58 PM
Quote from: glens73 on May 30, 2020, 05:40:10 PM
Rapper Killer Mike gives impassioned speech during Atlanta protests

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU (ftp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU)

Powerful stuff

Your link is an FTP link rather than a https link

Cheers, fixed now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on May 30, 2020, 06:26:13 PM
Why are there so many intolerant Liberals? The word has become utterly meaningless.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 06:41:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 30, 2020, 06:26:13 PM
Why are there so many intolerant Liberals? The word has become utterly meaningless.

It bewilders me.

People like Sid are strange beings. Anyone who doesn't precisely follow their narrow political stance is declared a fascist. Any attempts to offer a slightly different take are irately shouted down. They will not accept that forcing their political beliefs upon others is undemocratic.

Liberal my arse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 08:08:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 06:41:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 30, 2020, 06:26:13 PM
Why are there so many intolerant Liberals? The word has become utterly meaningless.

It bewilders me.

People like Sid are strange beings. Anyone who doesn't precisely follow their narrow political stance is declared a fascist. Any attempts to offer a slightly different take are irately shouted down. They will not accept that forcing their political beliefs upon others is undemocratic.

Liberal my arse.
Try and not copy things straight out of the Twitter feed of Brendan O'Neill and pass them off as your own "opinions".

You'll still be wrong, as you generally are, but you won't look as stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 08:41:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 08:08:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 06:41:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 30, 2020, 06:26:13 PM
Why are there so many intolerant Liberals? The word has become utterly meaningless.

It bewilders me.

People like Sid are strange beings. Anyone who doesn't precisely follow their narrow political stance is declared a fascist. Any attempts to offer a slightly different take are irately shouted down. They will not accept that forcing their political beliefs upon others is undemocratic.

Liberal my arse.
Try and not copy things straight out of the Twitter feed of Brendan O'Neill and pass them off as your own "opinions".

You'll still be wrong, as you generally are, but you won't look as stupid.

I have no idea what you're taking about, but I would say is that if the political system you yearn for would see the people behave more like your good self - uncompromisingly rude and intolerant - then we might just be better off with what we have.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 08:49:34 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 08:41:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 08:08:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 06:41:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 30, 2020, 06:26:13 PM
Why are there so many intolerant Liberals? The word has become utterly meaningless.

It bewilders me.

People like Sid are strange beings. Anyone who doesn't precisely follow their narrow political stance is declared a fascist. Any attempts to offer a slightly different take are irately shouted down. They will not accept that forcing their political beliefs upon others is undemocratic.

Liberal my arse.
Try and not copy things straight out of the Twitter feed of Brendan O'Neill and pass them off as your own "opinions".

You'll still be wrong, as you generally are, but you won't look as stupid.

I have no idea what you're taking about, but I would say is that if the political system you yearn for would see the people behave more like your good self - uncompromisingly rude and intolerant - then we might just be better off with what we have.
Quite telling that claim to have no idea what I'm talking about really, isn't it.

If you have nothing to offer except gaslighting and trolling, which you obviously don't - and I'm not just going on this thread but on the evidence of your history of posting on a wide array of topics, you'd probably be best off not commenting. This thread is already bogged down with trolls and gaslighters who offer nothing.

But empty vessels tend to make the most noise, don't they. And they love nothing more than claiming fake victimhood in the absence of having anything remotely of interest to say, as you do.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 08:55:52 PM
Thread:

https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952

Remarkable info coming out of this presser: Gov. Tim Walls, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey and St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter and now MN attorney general Keith Ellison ALL alleging outside forces, domestic and possibly foreign, have post-Tuesday infiltrated the state, and are

in organized fashion setting fire to historic businesses in communities of color, and causing mayhem. Ellison cited the widely circulating video of a white man in a gas mask holding an umbrella who was caught by protestors on video breaking windows.

And the governor says he has reached out to the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Defense, and fully mobilized the MN National Guard for the first time in 164 years. This is a continuing story and presumably we will begin hearing it echoed in other cities.

Mayor Carter said EVERY person arrested last night during the protests was from out of state. The governor said it is at least 80 percent, and that they will begin releasing the names. Dept of Safety Commissioner John Harrington says they are contract-tracing arrestees:

He adds that white nationalist groups are posting messages promoting going to Minneapolis to "get our loot on" and cause mayhem. He says they will investigate those using the outrage over the murder of George Floyd as a "cover" for illegal activity

Gov. Walls acknowledged the legitimate "rage and anger" over the police-involved killing but "last night was a mockery of pretending it's about George Floyd's death or about disparities."

This pressure just gets more remarkable. Mayor Frey says on Tuesday the protests were very different. He says the masks worn by the protests after they morphed were about disguise, not covid safety.

Mayor Carter says they saw mayhem starters throw incendiary devices and then run behind legit protesters and "use them as a human shield." He says being out after curfew allows yourself to be used.

This is now a story not just about grief, anger, protest, George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, it's about infiltration and deliberate mayhem inflicted on the very communities that are hurting — both because of police brutality, and due to cove—per the mayor 1,000 deaths to date.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 08:57:17 PM
Of course Barr is claiming the exact opposite - they always accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of.

https://twitter.com/joshscampbell/status/1266742854266900483

Minnesota officials say many of the violent protesters who have caused widespread damage are from out of state. Authorities have been monitoring alleged criminals online, including postings by suspected white supremacists trying to incite violence.

https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/1266768392792440833

It appears to be a widespread, organized attempt to infiltrate the protests, escalate the violence, and force either a nationwide racial confrontation or push Donald Trump into action, either way moving toward a takeover of the country and establishment of a white ethnostate.

https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/1266768723429470209

None of this is tinfoil hat stuff. It's been brewing for decades. These groups have been training and prepping and planning for a moment like this. It appears, for many of them, this is the Go Moment and are aggressively using the protests as a catalyst and cover.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 08:59:13 PM
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkyb9b/far-right-extremists-are-hoping-to-turn-the-george-floyd-protests-into-a-new-civil-war

By Tess Owen
May 29 2020, 10:41pm

Far-Right Extremists Are Hoping to Turn the George Floyd Protests Into a New Civil War
Armed extremists are showing up to protests and urging a "boogaloo" — code for civil war — online.

Far-right extremists are showing up, with guns, to the protests against police brutality that have exploded across the country.

Others are egging on the violence from behind their computers, urging followers to carry out acts of violence against black protesters with the goal of sparking a "race war."

Their presence makes an uneasy addition to the escalating unrest, which was triggered by the death of George Floyd, a black man who was choked to death by a white Minneapolis police officer earlier this week.

But there's a range of motivations that's driving far-right interest toward the protests, which are being led by community members and Black Lives Matter, and bolstered by antifascists.

For example, the so-called Boogaloo Bois — a group of armed anti-government extremists made visible by their Hawaiian shirts — have reportedly shown up to some of the protests.

The "boogaloo" is code for impending civil war or violent confrontation with law enforcement, and that's what they're hoping to get out of the protests. Their main reason for being there is their antipathy toward law enforcement, and so they're trying to position themselves as allies of Black Lives Matter protesters. They've made police brutality one of their central issues, which was explored at length in a Bellingcat article this week.

Their approach to police brutality links the victims of the deadly standoff with federal agents at Ruby Ridge in 1992, to the victims of modern police brutality, including Floyd. But unlike the vast majority of protesters, they refuse to acknowledge the fact that police brutality is an issue that disproportionately impacts people of color.

There have been scattered reports of Boogaloo Bois' presence at the protests, which were compiled by a Bellingcat investigative journalist in a thread. He includes an audio clip (stripped of video per activists' requests) of protesters saying they'd wrestled a handgun from a "white nationalist" agitator — whom he describes as a Boogaloo Boi who became overly rowdy. Another photo, shared across private Boogaloo Facebook pages, showed one of their own unfurling their trademark flag during the Minneapolis protests. And one protester posted a picture of himself wearing a gas mask to Instagram, under the hashtag #Boogaloo.

While some Boogaloo Bois say they're just libertarians, others will, on occasion, veer into racism — and make no secret of their desire for violence. In addition to their physical presence at the protests, the #boogaloo hashtag on social media has been flooded with memes in the last couple days egging on violence, and talking about how they hope this is the beginning of a civil war.

While more established militia types sometimes share those perspectives, they often view themselves as intermediaries between law enforcement and civilians. For example, two armed white men were interviewed by the Minnesota Reformer, a local independent news organization, outside a tobacco store in Minneapolis this week. They said they were protecting businesses from looters, but were also there to defend civilians should they need to.

"Cops are less likely to tread on people's rights when there's other armed people around them," one of the men told the interviewer.

Local activists identified another group in Minneapolis as members of the III% militia, one of the largest militia networks in the U.S.

But perhaps the most troubling of all are the hardcore "accelerationists" who are encouraging their neo-Nazi followers to go to the protests and carry out acts of violence against black people — all with the goal of "exacerbating the ethnic tensions" and sparking a "race war."

Accelerationists promote violence to speed up the collapse of society. An eco-fascist Telegram channel wrote to its nearly 2,500 subscribers on Thursday that "a riot would be the perfect place to commit a murder." Accelerationists often seek to exploit moments of political or civil unrest, and the widespread protests that have unfolded across the country fit the bill. Similarly, 4chan is full of racists cheering the violence and saying that they hope it's the beginning of a "race war."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 09:19:16 PM
Wow Sid, just wow.

Based on your contributions to that last 3-4 pages of this thread, you don't see a forum as a forum like most of us do. You don't actually want discussion. Instead you want the opportunity to reveal your brilliant mind, and should anyone raise an eyebrow, you belittle them with increasingly rude force.

Just a handful of messages ago you absolutely condemned anyone who doesn't think of US politics as more complex than Trump=Nazi, as also being a Nazi.

If this online persona is a reflection of you really behave, then you are possibly borderline insane.

One could actually describe your behaviour as Trump-esque.


Don't just rant back at me. Think about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Square Ball on May 30, 2020, 10:50:07 PM
Many watching the CNN coverage of the protests? Early afternoon and it's starting to get nasty.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 11:58:06 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 09:19:16 PM
Wow Sid, just wow.

Based on your contributions to that last 3-4 pages of this thread, you don't see a forum as a forum like most of us do. You don't actually want discussion. Instead you want the opportunity to reveal your brilliant mind, and should anyone raise an eyebrow, you belittle them with increasingly rude force.

Just a handful of messages ago you absolutely condemned anyone who doesn't think of US politics as more complex than Trump=Nazi, as also being a Nazi.

If this online persona is a reflection of you really behave, then you are possibly borderline insane.

One could actually describe your behaviour as Trump-esque.


Don't just rant back at me. Think about it.
Having read many of your posts oveer a long amount of time, the pattern I've found with them is you almost exclusively tend to take a professional contrarian position which debaates a straw man, without actually dealing with the substance of the issue at hand.

That's the hallmark of somebody who has nothing of substance to say but insists on saying it.

And so it is again here.

Read your post back again.

You literally proved my point about you perfectly. All you have is trolling, which is the hallmark of all Trump suupporters.

I think there's one poster that alone, and very alone, thinks they have a brilliant mind on this forum, it's yourself.

And you do a mean line in taking fake offence.

I think that says a lot about your character as a person - none of it good.

And that you refuse to engage in any way on any matter of substance, but choose to call somebody who tells inconvenient truths "insane" - well, to use your own words, "wow, just wow".



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 12:13:44 AM
Sid....if I was a Trump supporter, I would be very encouraged by your recent "postings", because your attitude toward people who hold different views is exactly the type of attitude among Democrats that pushed swing voters towards Trump in 2016 (who had voted for Obama twice, I might add)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:27:35 AM
It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 12:33:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 30, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.
All of your friends who are Trump supporters are happy to put up with endemic and vicious racism and the destruction of objective truth. They're happy to put up with massive corruption and kleptocracy. They're happy to put up with an all out assault on science.

They're happy to put up with fascism, in other words.

And if you support Trump, so are you.

Don't f**king patronise me about what I can see with my own two eyes.

Have you considered that the people who live amongst a majority ruling class intent on keeping minoritiees down with a jackboot are the very worst people to judge what is actually going on, and to evaluate what they support?

Your rhetoric is the exact same as those who say "you don't live in East Belfast so you have no understanding of why people support the DUP", "you don't live in a white area of South Africa so you have no understanding of why people support apartheid", or "you don't live in 1930s Germany so you have no idea why people support Hitler".

Judging by your user name you come from Omagh. Somebody from Omagh should have more reason than most to understand the dangers of sectarian and ethnic fanaticism. They should have more reason than most to understand the effects of a majority ruling class who treat ethnic minorities like shit, and what it does to those minorities.

Frankly, any Irish person who supports Trump or would even consider doing so is betraying their own history - and the history of the struggle of Irish people to be free and to be treated justly.

You should know resulting to rabid personal insults over the internet gives me a solid chuckle....

Anyway if youbreak people down into simplistic groups then you loose the personal relatable aspect, I'm off the firm belief you have to meet people to understand them and even then you still wont properly unless you've experienced what they have. I'm pretty confident nonparents have no idea what its like to raise children despite a good number seemingly very willing to share their opinions on the subject. But sitting in with them for a  few hours or days to see their incessant struggles might give you some idea of what parents do and why they do it...and then you might be in a position to give a much more thought out opinion. But then that would take time and effort.

Anyway interesting you should mention Omagh and how it should shape my opinions because it does alot. Omagh was a town that was relatively unaffectted by the troubles until the 98 bomb. I'm of the belief that this is because of the good mixed community relations in the town and the fact Omagh was a garrison town. This meant that people saw and heard from the "other side" daily and saw each other as people and not as opposing tribes. West Tyrones villages are similarly mixed and also saw low levels of parilmilitary activity. To back up my theory you only have to look to East Tyrone where there is alot of division in the towns and villages, much more sectarianism and as a result much more parilmilitary activity.
The level of division. Tribalism, vitriol and demonization from all sides that you see now in the US is getting to similar levels that you would have seen in NI. All that entrenchment means that the other side isnt really seen as human, it's a dangerous place to be when things get like this... The media dont help but i wish people would think before going down this path...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:36:50 AM
Umberto Eco's 14 criteria of fascism. Trump ticks every single one.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco

"The Cult of Tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by Tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.

"The Rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.

"The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.

"Disagreement Is Treason" – Fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.

"Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.

"Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.

"Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society (such as the German elite's 'fear' of the 1930s Jewish populace's businesses and well-doings; see also anti-Semitism). Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.

Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.

"Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because "Life is Permanent Warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to not build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.

"Contempt for the Weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate Leader who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force.

"Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death."

"Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality."

"Selective Populism" – The People, conceived monolithically, have a Common Will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the Leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the Voice of the People."

"Newspeak" – Fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 12:51:11 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:27:35 AM
It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.

Good man Sid.....keep her lit

If you think thats its only Republicans who are racists, Id suggest you take a trip to South Boston or the Irish enclaves on the South Side of Chicago.

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them

Case in point the Hillary supporter in Central Park last weekend


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/500158-van-jones-a-white-liberal-hillary-clinton-supporter-can-pose-a-greater-threat

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:59:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 12:33:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 30, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.
All of your friends who are Trump supporters are happy to put up with endemic and vicious racism and the destruction of objective truth. They're happy to put up with massive corruption and kleptocracy. They're happy to put up with an all out assault on science.

They're happy to put up with fascism, in other words.

And if you support Trump, so are you.

Don't f**king patronise me about what I can see with my own two eyes.

Have you considered that the people who live amongst a majority ruling class intent on keeping minoritiees down with a jackboot are the very worst people to judge what is actually going on, and to evaluate what they support?

Your rhetoric is the exact same as those who say "you don't live in East Belfast so you have no understanding of why people support the DUP", "you don't live in a white area of South Africa so you have no understanding of why people support apartheid", or "you don't live in 1930s Germany so you have no idea why people support Hitler".

Judging by your user name you come from Omagh. Somebody from Omagh should have more reason than most to understand the dangers of sectarian and ethnic fanaticism. They should have more reason than most to understand the effects of a majority ruling class who treat ethnic minorities like shit, and what it does to those minorities.

Frankly, any Irish person who supports Trump or would even consider doing so is betraying their own history - and the history of the struggle of Irish people to be free and to be treated justly.

You should know resulting to rabid personal insults over the internet gives me a solid chuckle....

Anyway if youbreak people down into simplistic groups then you loose the personal relatable aspect, I'm off the firm belief you have to meet people to understand them and even then you still wont properly unless you've experienced what they have. I'm pretty confident nonparents have no idea what its like to raise children despite a good number seemingly very willing to share their opinions on the subject. But sitting in with them for a  few hours or days to see their incessant struggles might give you some idea of what parents do and why they do it...and then you might be in a position to give a much more thought out opinion. But then that would take time and effort.

Anyway interesting you should mention Omagh and how it should shape my opinions because it does alot. Omagh was a town that was relatively unaffectted by the troubles until the 98 bomb. I'm of the belief that this is because of the good mixed community relations in the town and the fact Omagh was a garrison town. This meant that people saw and heard from the "other side" daily and saw each other as people and not as opposing tribes. West Tyrones villages are similarly mixed and also saw low levels of parilmilitary activity. To back up my theory you only have to look to East Tyrone where there is alot of division in the towns and villages, much more sectarianism and as a result much more parilmilitary activity.
The level of division. Tribalism, vitriol and demonization from all sides that you see now in the US is getting to similar levels that you would have seen in NI. All that entrenchment means that the other side isnt really seen as human, it's a dangerous place to be when things get like this... The media dont help but i wish people would think before going down this path...

One of the paradoxes of the modern right-wing is they attempt to destroy nuance in favour of simplism when nuance actually exists, and they mendaciously attempt to confuse things by attempting to introduce fake nuance when things are actually black and white.

The American Civil War is a good example. The Confederacy was an evil entity fighting for an evil cause. And yet one of the few things right-wing crackpots attempt to see nuance in is the cause of the Confederacy. QED. The current day Republican party consistently pushes for confederate symbolism and paraphernalia to be displayed publicly in the face of black people - that black people should daily have to be confronted with the groteesque paraphernalia which explicitly sought to keep them enslaved. This is akin to campaigning for Nazi flags to be flown in the streets of Jerusalem, or outside synagogues.

Trump is the Confederacy in modern day.

Like Hitler, what Trump offers is deeply simplistic and it is based on a lie.

In Germany, the Hitler lie was that economic hardship had been created by a conspiracy by Jews, with the white German as aa pure, entirely innocent victim.

In America, the Trump lie is that economic hardship has been created by blacks, by other ethnic minorities, by women, by sexual minorities, by anybody speaking out on behalf of any of said groups of people. With whites as pure, entirely innocent victims of said fake conspiracy.

Some of the biggest victims of Trump are his own working class supporters, who  needless to say are white. He plays them for fools. He has done nothing for them except made their lives worse than they already were.

Yet these supporters, exactly like Hitler's supporters, are happy to buy into the lie because, deep down, they believe in white supremacism.

White supremacism is the abhorrent, ghoulish core of Trump's appeal.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 01:45:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 12:51:11 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:27:35 AM
It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.

Good man Sid.....keep her lit

If you think thats its only Republicans who are racists, Id suggest you take a trip to South Boston or the Irish enclaves on the South Side of Chicago.

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them

Case in point the Hillary supporter in Central Park last weekend


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/500158-van-jones-a-white-liberal-hillary-clinton-supporter-can-pose-a-greater-threat

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html
It must be amazing to live in such a straw man world, as the racist above does.

Instead of arguing against actual opinions, he argues against a Fox News version of what he imagines other people think.

That's called an echo chamber and this guy has never given the slightest impression that he exists outside of one.

The woman in Central Park being a vile racist and apparently a Clinton supporter explicitly backs me up when I talk about what racism is. It's endemic in white America.

And it explicitly disproves what you've been shiteing on about for years.

Many white Democratic supporters are indeed racists. But the Democratic party is the only party political vehicle for those who stand against racism in America.

The difference is, the Republican party and Trump are endemically, terminally and shamlessly racist, and fascist.

You cannot stand stand against racism and be a Republican, the same as you could not stand for the rights of Jews and be a Nazi.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 02:21:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 01:45:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 12:51:11 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:27:35 AM
It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.

Good man Sid.....keep her lit

If you think thats its only Republicans who are racists, Id suggest you take a trip to South Boston or the Irish enclaves on the South Side of Chicago.

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them

Case in point the Hillary supporter in Central Park last weekend


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/500158-van-jones-a-white-liberal-hillary-clinton-supporter-can-pose-a-greater-threat

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html
It must be amazing to live in such a straw man world, as the racist above does.

Instead of arguing against actual opinions, he argues against a Fox News version of what he imagines other people think.

That's called an echo chamber and this guy has never given the slightest impression that he exists outside of one.

The woman in Central Park being a vile racist and apparently a Clinton supporter explicitly backs me up when I talk about what racism is. It's endemic in white America.

And it explicitly disproves what you've been shiteing on about for years.

Many white Democratic supporters are indeed racists. But the Democratic party is the only party political vehicle for those who stand against racism in America.

The difference is, the Republican party and Trump are endemically, terminally and shamlessly racist, and fascist.

You cannot stand stand against racism and be a Republican, the same as you could not stand for the rights of Jews and be a Nazi.


But whats a racist?


According to Kamala Harris, Joe Biden is a racist. Last week he defined for people of color, what is acceptable and unacceptable........pretty outrageous if you ask me (and I like Joe Biden)

Bill Clinton told Ted Kennedy that Barack Obama should be serving them coffee......is he a racist?

Do you actually live here, or are just giving us your opinions based on zero real life experience?

Do you actually know any police officers or have family members who serve in law enforcement?

Do you actually know anyone who served in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Have you ever actually filed a tax return in the United States or served on a jury?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 02:21:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 12:51:11 AM

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them


Translation of what the racist above is saying: "If you're white, and you live near any black people, you'd be racist too, just like me - they're scum."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 02:31:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 02:21:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 01:45:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 12:51:11 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:27:35 AM
It's really weird that some people think this is a campaign advertising or broadcast slot.

It's not.

I'm not aiming to persuade anybody of anything here.

I just tell the truth about what's actually happening.

Anybody who says they were "pushed" into voting for Trump because people of colour or women or anybody else got too outspoken in terms of telling the truth is lying. What they actually believe is that people of colour, women and minorities should "know their place".

It's the old "they made me vote for a fascist" weasel excuse.

And any reasonable person can see it for what it is. Bullshit. Cowardice.

Nobody will be "persuaded" to not vote for Trump. He's been a fascist in plain sight since he declared himself as a candidate, in truth he was such long before that. What he is has been in plain sight for as long as anybody can remember. He pushed the racist birther conspiracy against Obama because he saw that most of white America was affronted by a black president - and he decided those would be his constituency. That was outright racism. His calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and his neveer apologising was outright racism.

If people support Trump, as the previous poster here so clearly does, they should front up and admit they like racism, corruption and fascism.

Because they certainly haven't been pushed into it by anybody.

Good man Sid.....keep her lit

If you think thats its only Republicans who are racists, Id suggest you take a trip to South Boston or the Irish enclaves on the South Side of Chicago.

And the "liberals" who lecture us the loudest on race, typically live in the wealthiest towns that are 99.9% white and they would $hit themselves if a person of color came within a mile of them

Case in point the Hillary supporter in Central Park last weekend


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/500158-van-jones-a-white-liberal-hillary-clinton-supporter-can-pose-a-greater-threat

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html
It must be amazing to live in such a straw man world, as the racist above does.

Instead of arguing against actual opinions, he argues against a Fox News version of what he imagines other people think.

That's called an echo chamber and this guy has never given the slightest impression that he exists outside of one.

The woman in Central Park being a vile racist and apparently a Clinton supporter explicitly backs me up when I talk about what racism is. It's endemic in white America.

And it explicitly disproves what you've been shiteing on about for years.

Many white Democratic supporters are indeed racists. But the Democratic party is the only party political vehicle for those who stand against racism in America.

The difference is, the Republican party and Trump are endemically, terminally and shamlessly racist, and fascist.

You cannot stand stand against racism and be a Republican, the same as you could not stand for the rights of Jews and be a Nazi.


But whats a racist?


According to Kamala Harris, Joe Biden is a racist. Last week he defined for people of color, what is acceptable and unacceptable........pretty outrageous if you ask me (and I like Joe Biden)

Bill Clinton told Ted Kennedy that Barack Obama should be serving them coffee......is he a racist?

Do you actually live here, or are just giving us your opinions based on zero real life experience?

Do you actually know any police officers or have family members who serve in law enforcement?

Do you actually know anyone who served in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Have you ever actually filed a tax return in the United States or served on a jury?
What's a racist?

Well, have a look at your own posts here for years standing for the categorical answer to that.

It's you.

Have a look at the bit I quoted by you in your previous post. Classic racism. And a classic attempt to rationalise racism.

The rest of your post above is utter nonsense designed to cloak racism, and cloaak your wholesale rejection of reality in favour of a sheltered echo chamber of racist ignorance.

I did enjoy the bit about "real life experience" though, and I laughed.

Your whole posting output on this forum has deliberately denigrated the actual real life experience of people you cannot comprehend, but refuse to comprehend.

In terms of the rejection of actual real life experience, you are the king.

And thus, you are as poorly qualified a person to talk about real life experience as I can think of.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 03:05:53 AM
Ah...so you dont live here.  Explains a lot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 05:12:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:59:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 12:33:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 30, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.
All of your friends who are Trump supporters are happy to put up with endemic and vicious racism and the destruction of objective truth. They're happy to put up with massive corruption and kleptocracy. They're happy to put up with an all out assault on science.

They're happy to put up with fascism, in other words.

And if you support Trump, so are you.

Don't f**king patronise me about what I can see with my own two eyes.

Have you considered that the people who live amongst a majority ruling class intent on keeping minoritiees down with a jackboot are the very worst people to judge what is actually going on, and to evaluate what they support?

Your rhetoric is the exact same as those who say "you don't live in East Belfast so you have no understanding of why people support the DUP", "you don't live in a white area of South Africa so you have no understanding of why people support apartheid", or "you don't live in 1930s Germany so you have no idea why people support Hitler".

Judging by your user name you come from Omagh. Somebody from Omagh should have more reason than most to understand the dangers of sectarian and ethnic fanaticism. They should have more reason than most to understand the effects of a majority ruling class who treat ethnic minorities like shit, and what it does to those minorities.

Frankly, any Irish person who supports Trump or would even consider doing so is betraying their own history - and the history of the struggle of Irish people to be free and to be treated justly.

You should know resulting to rabid personal insults over the internet gives me a solid chuckle....

Anyway if youbreak people down into simplistic groups then you loose the personal relatable aspect, I'm off the firm belief you have to meet people to understand them and even then you still wont properly unless you've experienced what they have. I'm pretty confident nonparents have no idea what its like to raise children despite a good number seemingly very willing to share their opinions on the subject. But sitting in with them for a  few hours or days to see their incessant struggles might give you some idea of what parents do and why they do it...and then you might be in a position to give a much more thought out opinion. But then that would take time and effort.

Anyway interesting you should mention Omagh and how it should shape my opinions because it does alot. Omagh was a town that was relatively unaffectted by the troubles until the 98 bomb. I'm of the belief that this is because of the good mixed community relations in the town and the fact Omagh was a garrison town. This meant that people saw and heard from the "other side" daily and saw each other as people and not as opposing tribes. West Tyrones villages are similarly mixed and also saw low levels of parilmilitary activity. To back up my theory you only have to look to East Tyrone where there is alot of division in the towns and villages, much more sectarianism and as a result much more parilmilitary activity.
The level of division. Tribalism, vitriol and demonization from all sides that you see now in the US is getting to similar levels that you would have seen in NI. All that entrenchment means that the other side isnt really seen as human, it's a dangerous place to be when things get like this... The media dont help but i wish people would think before going down this path...

One of the paradoxes of the modern right-wing is they attempt to destroy nuance in favour of simplism when nuance actually exists, and they mendaciously attempt to confuse things by attempting to introduce fake nuance when things are actually black and white.

The American Civil War is a good example. The Confederacy was an evil entity fighting for an evil cause. And yet one of the few things right-wing crackpots attempt to see nuance in is the cause of the Confederacy. QED. The current day Republican party consistently pushes for confederate symbolism and paraphernalia to be displayed publicly in the face of black people - that black people should daily have to be confronted with the groteesque paraphernalia which explicitly sought to keep them enslaved. This is akin to campaigning for Nazi flags to be flown in the streets of Jerusalem, or outside synagogues.

Trump is the Confederacy in modern day.

Like Hitler, what Trump offers is deeply simplistic and it is based on a lie.

In Germany, the Hitler lie was that economic hardship had been created by a conspiracy by Jews, with the white German as aa pure, entirely innocent victim.

In America, the Trump lie is that economic hardship has been created by blacks, by other ethnic minorities, by women, by sexual minorities, by anybody speaking out on behalf of any of said groups of people. With whites as pure, entirely innocent victims of said fake conspiracy.

Some of the biggest victims of Trump are his own working class supporters, who  needless to say are white. He plays them for fools. He has done nothing for them except made their lives worse than they already were.

Yet these supporters, exactly like Hitler's supporters, are happy to buy into the lie because, deep down, they believe in white supremacism.

White supremacism is the abhorrent, ghoulish core of Trump's appeal.

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 05:12:44 AM

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution
The reason you claim what I say is "irrelevant" is that you don't suffer in any way from racism perpetrated by whites.

And thus you have taken a stance that it is entirely irrelevant to you.

In other words, your stance is "I'm alright, Jack, racism is fine, as long as I'm not the victim of it."

Belief in white supremacism is not a "grievance", as you claim.

Inequality of wealth and life chances is a grievance.

Which precisely nobody in the Republican party has any intention of dealing with - Republican ideology is based on perpetuating it - and which Trump has made exponentially worse.

Anybody who genuinely cared about wealth inequality would be all in for preogressive candidates, of which precisely none exist in the Republican party.

Trump cares less than nothing for poor people. He cares only about channelling wealth to the very richest in society. He is an elite plutocrat fascist with a literal dystopian "burn it down" vision of society, backed monetarily by people of the exact same mindset.

I get it exactly about people like you. And that's what bothers you and others like you here.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world for the reasons you think like you do, but you won't find a legitimate one, you'll only find a fake rationalisation for your own bigotry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thewobbler on May 31, 2020, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 11:58:06 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 09:19:16 PM
Wow Sid, just wow.

Based on your contributions to that last 3-4 pages of this thread, you don't see a forum as a forum like most of us do. You don't actually want discussion. Instead you want the opportunity to reveal your brilliant mind, and should anyone raise an eyebrow, you belittle them with increasingly rude force.

Just a handful of messages ago you absolutely condemned anyone who doesn't think of US politics as more complex than Trump=Nazi, as also being a Nazi.

If this online persona is a reflection of you really behave, then you are possibly borderline insane.

One could actually describe your behaviour as Trump-esque.


Don't just rant back at me. Think about it.
Having read many of your posts oveer a long amount of time, the pattern I've found with them is you almost exclusively tend to take a professional contrarian position which debaates a straw man, without actually dealing with the substance of the issue at hand.

That's the hallmark of somebody who has nothing of substance to say but insists on saying it.

And so it is again here.

Read your post back again.

You literally proved my point about you perfectly. All you have is trolling, which is the hallmark of all Trump suupporters.

I think there's one poster that alone, and very alone, thinks they have a brilliant mind on this forum, it's yourself.

And you do a mean line in taking fake offence.

I think that says a lot about your character as a person - none of it good.

And that you refuse to engage in any way on any matter of substance, but choose to call somebody who tells inconvenient truths "insane" - well, to use your own words, "wow, just wow".


1. I'm not a Trump supporter. The world may be be a series of binary choices to you, but we don't all work like that, so let me explain as succinctly as I can. Finding fault with your rants does not make someone a Trump supporter.

2. "You do a mean mine in taking offence. I think that says a lot about character". Okay, to clear this one up. I wouldn't be a fan of when faceless internet warriors turn a conversation into a personal attack. Pretty much how people have behaved since the beginning of communication. That you choose to question my character for this trait, shows your lack of ammunition. It basically shows you're wrong.

3. It's not really possible to engage with you, for as mentioned in the previous post, you don't wish to discuss. You wish to explain, and your next post after that is rarely a continuation of the topic, but a piercingly rude and intolerant dismissal of the person, not the post.

With regards to no.3, leave me out of the conversation for the last couple of days and look at the replies you've made to any other poster on this thread. Your approach to everyone is the same. I just happen to be today's plaything of choice.


So much anger. So little tolerance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 03:05:53 AM
Ah...so you dont live here.  Explains a lot
Your stance now is that the opinion of anybody who doesn't live in America should be dismissed.

Explains a lot about your mindset.

Tease out how your own logic can be applied to history:

"The opinions of those who did not live in Protestant areas of the North of Ireland should bee dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in white areas of apartheid South Africa should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live under Stalin should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in Nazi Germany should be dismissed."

This is literally what you believe. Your search to rationalise your own racism and bigotry can lead you down some very deep rabbit holes.

Still doesn't explain why you dismiss all opinions other than your own, though, no matter where people live.

And especially the views of ethnic and other minorities.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:37:03 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 31, 2020, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 11:58:06 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 30, 2020, 09:19:16 PM
Wow Sid, just wow.

Based on your contributions to that last 3-4 pages of this thread, you don't see a forum as a forum like most of us do. You don't actually want discussion. Instead you want the opportunity to reveal your brilliant mind, and should anyone raise an eyebrow, you belittle them with increasingly rude force.

Just a handful of messages ago you absolutely condemned anyone who doesn't think of US politics as more complex than Trump=Nazi, as also being a Nazi.

If this online persona is a reflection of you really behave, then you are possibly borderline insane.

One could actually describe your behaviour as Trump-esque.


Don't just rant back at me. Think about it.
Having read many of your posts oveer a long amount of time, the pattern I've found with them is you almost exclusively tend to take a professional contrarian position which debaates a straw man, without actually dealing with the substance of the issue at hand.

That's the hallmark of somebody who has nothing of substance to say but insists on saying it.

And so it is again here.

Read your post back again.

You literally proved my point about you perfectly. All you have is trolling, which is the hallmark of all Trump suupporters.

I think there's one poster that alone, and very alone, thinks they have a brilliant mind on this forum, it's yourself.

And you do a mean line in taking fake offence.

I think that says a lot about your character as a person - none of it good.

And that you refuse to engage in any way on any matter of substance, but choose to call somebody who tells inconvenient truths "insane" - well, to use your own words, "wow, just wow".


1. I'm not a Trump supporter. The world may be be a series of binary choices to you, but we don't all work like that, so let me explain as succinctly as I can. Finding fault with your rants does not make someone a Trump supporter.

2. "You do a mean mine in taking offence. I think that says a lot about character". Okay, to clear this one up. I wouldn't be a fan of when faceless internet warriors turn a conversation into a personal attack. Pretty much how people have behaved since the beginning of communication. That you choose to question my character for this trait, shows your lack of ammunition. It basically shows you're wrong.

3. It's not really possible to engage with you, for as mentioned in the previous post, you don't wish to discuss. You wish to explain, and your next post after that is rarely a continuation of the topic, but a piercingly rude and intolerant dismissal of the person, not the post.

With regards to no.3, leave me out of the conversation for the last couple of days and look at the replies you've made to any other poster on this thread. Your approach to everyone is the same. I just happen to be today's plaything of choice.


So much anger. So little tolerance.
I didn't call you a Trump supporter. I said that "all you have here is trolling".

Trolling and gaslighting is the hallmark of the online Trump supporter, who hs to resort to such because they cannot find any legitimate arguments.

Now, why you have decided to go down that route in terms of posting style is your own matter, but be aware that it is the exact same manner of posting as is favoured by Trump supporters.

You haven't been able to find fault with my posts. You are merely angry that I have posted them, because you find them confronting and uncomfortable, because they are accurate. You have been unable to point out why you think they are not.

Your sum argument is to shout "you are wrong!" That is not an argument. It's shouting.

Choosing whether to be pro or anti-fascist is very much a binary choice, my friend. Fascism as practised by Trump is an objective evil.

It is yourself who has taken offence. You take offence with my opinions. You believe I should have no right to voice them.

And you have not engaged one whit on the substance of them.

If you are incapable of engaging on the substance of the topic, as is so plainly the case, why are you commenting here?

Quote from: thewobbler on May 31, 2020, 09:26:28 AM
So much anger. So little tolerance.
If you're not angry, you're not paying attention.

I have a low tolerance for racist bullshit, alright.

But according to you, I should have more tolerance for it.

Quote from: thewobbler on May 31, 2020, 09:26:28 AM

2. "You do a mean mine in taking offence. I think that says a lot about character". Okay, to clear this one up. I wouldn't be a fan of when faceless internet warriors turn a conversation into a personal attack. Pretty much how people have behaved since the beginning of communication.

This from the "faceless internet warrior" who sees fit to call others "insane" because they don't like their opinions.

I post under my real name on Twitter. But then again, unlike some others here, I have no reason to be ashamed to put my real name to my opinions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 03:05:53 AM
Ah...so you dont live here.  Explains a lot
Your stance now is that the opinion of anybody who doesn't live in America should be dismissed.

Explains a lot about your mindset.

Tease out how your own logic can be applied to history:

"The opinions of those who did not live in Protestant areas of the North of Ireland should bee dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in white areas of apartheid South Africa should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live under Stalin should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in Nazi Germany should be dismissed."

This is literally what you believe. Your search to rationalise your own racism and bigotry can lead you down some very deep rabbit holes.

Still doesn't explain why you dismiss all opinions other than your own, though, no matter where people live.

And especially the views of ethnic and other minorities.

This is comical altogether.....you don't even live here and yet you, somehow, have superior insight and  understanding as to how things work. At the same time you DISMISS the opinions of people who have lived here for decades
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 03:05:53 AM
Ah...so you dont live here.  Explains a lot
Your stance now is that the opinion of anybody who doesn't live in America should be dismissed.

Explains a lot about your mindset.

Tease out how your own logic can be applied to history:

"The opinions of those who did not live in Protestant areas of the North of Ireland should bee dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in white areas of apartheid South Africa should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live under Stalin should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in Nazi Germany should be dismissed."

This is literally what you believe. Your search to rationalise your own racism and bigotry can lead you down some very deep rabbit holes.

Still doesn't explain why you dismiss all opinions other than your own, though, no matter where people live.

And especially the views of ethnic and other minorities.

This is comical altogether.....you don't even live here and yet you, somehow, have superior insight and  understanding as to how things work. At the same time you DISMISS the opinions of people who have lived here for decades
I only dismiss i) people who who have no intention of debating in good faith and ii) racists.

You categorically tick both categories.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 03:05:53 AM
Ah...so you dont live here.  Explains a lot
Your stance now is that the opinion of anybody who doesn't live in America should be dismissed.

Explains a lot about your mindset.

Tease out how your own logic can be applied to history:

"The opinions of those who did not live in Protestant areas of the North of Ireland should bee dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in white areas of apartheid South Africa should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live under Stalin should be dismissed. The opinions of those who did not live in Nazi Germany should be dismissed."

This is literally what you believe. Your search to rationalise your own racism and bigotry can lead you down some very deep rabbit holes.

Still doesn't explain why you dismiss all opinions other than your own, though, no matter where people live.

And especially the views of ethnic and other minorities.

This is comical altogether.....you don't even live here and yet you, somehow, have superior insight and  understanding as to how things work. At the same time you DISMISS the opinions of people who have lived here for decades
I only dismiss i) people who who have no intention of debating in good faith and ii) racists.

You categorically tick both categories.

Live here for 10,20 or 30 years and then come back with some Genuine  opinions  not ones you lifted off some left wing blog
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2020, 02:25:34 PM
An NYC cop might be in a spot of bother after pulling a lad's mask down and pepper spraying him in the face. Lad has his hands up.

https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168 (https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168)

If you look in the comments, Letitia James, NY AG, asked the poster (apparently the lad's aunt) to send the info to her office.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2020, 02:25:34 PM
An NYC cop might be in a spot of bother after pulling a lad's mask down and pepper spraying him in the face. Lad has his hands up.

https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168 (https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168)

If you look in the comments, Letitia James, NY AG, asked the poster (apparently the lad's aunt) to send the info to her office.


There's going to be some great footage doing the rounds

https://mobile.twitter.com/AndySwan/status/1267081816873328640
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 12:45:16 PM

Live here for 10,20 or 30 years and then come back with some Genuine  opinions  not ones you lifted off some left wing blog
Again , the racist troll is straight in with the "if you lived here you'd be a racist too" spiel.

He genuinely cannot believe how anybody would have any opinions other than his own racist bile. It flabbergasts him.

As racist trolls go, this guy is the dregs of the dregs.

God help those poor unfortunates who have to put up with him in real life.

To be fair, given his total and utter amazement and confusion that anybody would have different views to him, that's unlikely to be many people.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2020, 03:30:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2020, 02:25:34 PM
An NYC cop might be in a spot of bother after pulling a lad's mask down and pepper spraying him in the face. Lad has his hands up.

https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168 (https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168)

If you look in the comments, Letitia James, NY AG, asked the poster (apparently the lad's aunt) to send the info to her office.


There's going to be some great footage doing the rounds

https://mobile.twitter.com/AndySwan/status/1267081816873328640

I'm curious why you would post this, without comment, in response to my post.

I think we are all aware that some people are taking advantage of these protests to burn and loot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 03:42:50 PM
White right-wing nut jobs (ie. pretty much the entirety of the Republican party) constantly fantasise about obliterating a supposed tyrannical state which is "oppressing them". That is why they have an almost sexual fetish for guns. Yet they refuse to recognise that black people don't need to imagine that tyranny, they live with it constantly. Black people actually experience the sort of tyranny that whites have never experienced but constantly fantasise abut experiencing.

So given such, they should have no problem with any violence from black people, or if black people start to tool up and form openly armed vigilante groups acting in a threatening manner against police or white people in general - as it is the entirely logical conclusion of the white right wing nutcase argument for mass gun ownership.

But black people are black, and you couldn't be having black people having the same rights as whites, eh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 03:51:53 PM
Donald Trump has 3% (three per cent) support among blacks. There's a damn good chance you'd get a higher percentage of Catholics voting for the DUP.

We are so lucky to have several posters here, on a GAA discussion board, of all things, telling pretty much the entirety of black America that it doesn't know what it's talking about.

"Whitey" knows best, eh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 03:52:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2020, 03:30:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2020, 02:25:34 PM
An NYC cop might be in a spot of bother after pulling a lad's mask down and pepper spraying him in the face. Lad has his hands up.

https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168 (https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168)

If you look in the comments, Letitia James, NY AG, asked the poster (apparently the lad's aunt) to send the info to her office.


There's going to be some great footage doing the rounds

https://mobile.twitter.com/AndySwan/status/1267081816873328640

I'm curious why you would post this, without comment, in response to my post.

I think we are all aware that some people are taking advantage of these protests to burn and loot.

Your first instinct was to post something to make the cops look bad

My first instinct was to post something to make the rioters/looters look bad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 03:58:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 03:52:27 PM

Your first instinct was to post something to make the cops look bad

My first instinct was to post something to make the rioters/looters look bad
Translation: "whites good, blacks bad".

Your racist veil fell long ago.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 03:58:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 03:52:27 PM

Your first instinct was to post something to make the cops look bad

My first instinct was to post something to make the rioters/looters look bad
Translation: "whites good, blacks bad".

Your racist veil fell long ago.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 04:14:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 12:45:16 PM

Live here for 10,20 or 30 years and then come back with some Genuine  opinions  not ones you lifted off some left wing blog
Again , the racist troll is straight in with the "if you lived here you'd be a racist too" spiel.

He genuinely cannot believe how anybody would have any opinions other than his own racist bile. It flabbergasts him.

As racist trolls go, this guy is the dregs of the dregs.

God help those poor unfortunates who have to put up with him in real life.

To be fair, given his total and utter amazement and confusion that anybody would have different views to him, that's unlikely to be many people.

Maith an fear.....to go bog è
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2020, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 03:52:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2020, 03:30:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2020, 02:25:34 PM
An NYC cop might be in a spot of bother after pulling a lad's mask down and pepper spraying him in the face. Lad has his hands up.

https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168 (https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168)

If you look in the comments, Letitia James, NY AG, asked the poster (apparently the lad's aunt) to send the info to her office.


There's going to be some great footage doing the rounds

https://mobile.twitter.com/AndySwan/status/1267081816873328640

I'm curious why you would post this, without comment, in response to my post.

I think we are all aware that some people are taking advantage of these protests to burn and loot.

Your first instinct was to post something to make the cops look bad

My first instinct was to post something to make the rioters/looters look bad

Good you're admitting to what YOUR reflex reaction is.

I'll speak for myself, thank you.

I have no history of anticop rhetoric. I posted it because the NY AG had responded on Twitter, asking the aunt of the victim to send it to her office. A state AG saying she'll look into a film of a cop ripping a mask off a guy and spraying him is newsworthy at the moment, is it not?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 04:24:30 PM
It was a tongue in cheek comment (but the lefties on my twitter feed were running very hard this morning with an anti law enforcement agenda, completely ignoring the rioting and looting that was going on)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 05:12:44 AM

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution
The reason you claim what I say is "irrelevant" is that you don't suffer in any way from racism perpetrated by whites.

And thus you have taken a stance that it is entirely irrelevant to you.

In other words, your stance is "I'm alright, Jack, racism is fine, as long as I'm not the victim of it."

Belief in white supremacism is not a "grievance", as you claim.

Inequality of wealth and life chances is a grievance.

Which precisely nobody in the Republican party has any intention of dealing with - Republican ideology is based on perpetuating it - and which Trump has made exponentially worse.

Anybody who genuinely cared about wealth inequality would be all in for preogressive candidates, of which precisely none exist in the Republican party.

Trump cares less than nothing for poor people. He cares only about channelling wealth to the very richest in society. He is an elite plutocrat fascist with a literal dystopian "burn it down" vision of society, backed monetarily by people of the exact same mindset.

I get it exactly about people like you. And that's what bothers you and others like you here.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world for the reasons you think like you do, but you won't find a legitimate one, you'll only find a fake rationalisation for your own bigotry.

I'm curious.... what is my "stance"? And on what exactly?

Just for reference..I was calling out your vitriol and unwillingness to understand root causes of political phenomenons like the current populist nationalism sweeping the world. I never expressed any opinion on that political movement.... so what exactly makes me a bigot?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
75% of protesters/rioters now are just out to rob and burn stuff  if this keeps going for a few more days it will end up helping trump not hurting him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2020, 04:53:56 PM

Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 04:24:30 PM
It was a tongue in cheek comment (but the lefties on my twitter feed were running very hard this morning with an anti law enforcement agenda, completely ignoring the rioting and looting that was going on)

Fair enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2020, 04:55:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
75% of protesters/rioters now are just out to rob and burn stuff  if this keeps going for a few more days it will end up helping trump not hurting him .

Rightly or wrongly, I agree.

Trump thrives on division and perceived enemies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 05:02:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
75% of protesters/rioters now are just out to rob and burn stuff  if this keeps going for a few more days it will end up helping trump not hurting him .

It already has

Biden's campaign staff paying bail for rioters....incredibly stupid

NRA will raise a ton of cash for Trump and other Republicans

If there aren't any big spikes in Corona Virus in these big cities....Trump can say, see told you so.....no need for mail in ballots
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 31, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
Stop repeating every piece of bile you see OANN posting on Twitter. Give your head a shake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 05:17:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 31, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
Stop repeating every piece of bile you see OANN posting on Twitter. Give your head a shake.

"Bile" saying that Biden campaign staffers helped bail out rioters

"Bile" saying that the NRA will capitalize on the chaos

"Bile" saying that Trump is just looking for an excuse to stop mail in ballots

You have a very odd definition of bile
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 31, 2020, 05:34:04 PM
"Bile" - http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=3914

There - that better?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 05:50:10 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 31, 2020, 05:34:04 PM
"Bile" - http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=3914

There - that better?


YAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 31, 2020, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
75% of protesters/rioters now are just out to rob and burn stuff  if this keeps going for a few more days it will end up helping trump not hurting him .

Is that an exact amount the 75% or have you just pulled that out of your hole???

(I already know the answer but it would be good for you to confirm it!!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 05:12:44 AM

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution
The reason you claim what I say is "irrelevant" is that you don't suffer in any way from racism perpetrated by whites.

And thus you have taken a stance that it is entirely irrelevant to you.

In other words, your stance is "I'm alright, Jack, racism is fine, as long as I'm not the victim of it."

Belief in white supremacism is not a "grievance", as you claim.

Inequality of wealth and life chances is a grievance.

Which precisely nobody in the Republican party has any intention of dealing with - Republican ideology is based on perpetuating it - and which Trump has made exponentially worse.

Anybody who genuinely cared about wealth inequality would be all in for preogressive candidates, of which precisely none exist in the Republican party.

Trump cares less than nothing for poor people. He cares only about channelling wealth to the very richest in society. He is an elite plutocrat fascist with a literal dystopian "burn it down" vision of society, backed monetarily by people of the exact same mindset.

I get it exactly about people like you. And that's what bothers you and others like you here.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world for the reasons you think like you do, but you won't find a legitimate one, you'll only find a fake rationalisation for your own bigotry.

I'm curious.... what is my "stance"? And on what exactly?

Just for reference..I was calling out your vitriol and unwillingness to understand root causes of political phenomenons like the current populist nationalism sweeping the world. I never expressed any opinion on that political movement.... so what exactly makes me a bigot?
Your stance is that you have called discussion of the racism of the Trump regime irrelevant. You attempt to see nuance on an issue over which there is none. Racism is an evil cancer. Racism is endemic in America. White America still cannot come to terms with its evil past or present. It has chosen to perpetuate racism.

What are the so called "legitimate grievances" which justify the rise of American fascism?

I understand the root causes of current day fascist movements like Trump just fine, thanks.

They are they exact same in nature as those which led to the rise of the Nazis.

It isn't difficult. You whip up an ethnic majority into a mob, and blame economic hardship and all of society's ills on an "out group", or out groups. You tell the ethnic majority that their identity is under threat because of the existence of these out groups. And that's basically it. There's not much more to understand. Facism is naked hatred. Fascism is a con trick and people who vote for Trump are the prey of a con trickster.

Nobody has yet been able to say why I'm wrong on this. They can't, because I'm entirely right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on May 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.

This is what gets me. Antifa has been built up by its enemies to be something a lot more than it is ffs. A terrorist organisation. What a joke
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 08:27:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 31, 2020, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
75% of protesters/rioters now are just out to rob and burn stuff  if this keeps going for a few more days it will end up helping trump not hurting him .

Is that an exact amount the 75% or have you just pulled that out of your hole???

(I already know the answer but it would be good for you to confirm it!!)
what would you put it at ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2020, 09:31:54 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.

This is what gets me. Antifa has been built up by its enemies to be something a lot more than it is ffs. A terrorist organisation. What a joke

Should be fun trying to prove membership in court.

And of course he hadn't a f**king word to say about the militia fuckwits taking over statehouses with grenade launchers and assault rifles.

This country is heading for a split if things continue as they are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 09:38:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 05:12:44 AM

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution
The reason you claim what I say is "irrelevant" is that you don't suffer in any way from racism perpetrated by whites.

And thus you have taken a stance that it is entirely irrelevant to you.

In other words, your stance is "I'm alright, Jack, racism is fine, as long as I'm not the victim of it."

Belief in white supremacism is not a "grievance", as you claim.

Inequality of wealth and life chances is a grievance.

Which precisely nobody in the Republican party has any intention of dealing with - Republican ideology is based on perpetuating it - and which Trump has made exponentially worse.

Anybody who genuinely cared about wealth inequality would be all in for preogressive candidates, of which precisely none exist in the Republican party.

Trump cares less than nothing for poor people. He cares only about channelling wealth to the very richest in society. He is an elite plutocrat fascist with a literal dystopian "burn it down" vision of society, backed monetarily by people of the exact same mindset.

I get it exactly about people like you. And that's what bothers you and others like you here.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world for the reasons you think like you do, but you won't find a legitimate one, you'll only find a fake rationalisation for your own bigotry.

I'm curious.... what is my "stance"? And on what exactly?

Just for reference..I was calling out your vitriol and unwillingness to understand root causes of political phenomenons like the current populist nationalism sweeping the world. I never expressed any opinion on that political movement.... so what exactly makes me a bigot?
Your stance is that you have called discussion of the racism of the Trump regime irrelevant. You attempt to see nuance on an issue over which there is none. Racism is an evil cancer. Racism is endemic in America. White America still cannot come to terms with its evil past or present. It has chosen to perpetuate racism.

What are the so called "legitimate grievances" which justify the rise of American fascism?

I understand the root causes of current day fascist movements like Trump just fine, thanks.

They are they exact same in nature as those which led to the rise of the Nazis.

It isn't difficult. You whip up an ethnic majority into a mob, and blame economic hardship and all of society's ills on an "out group", or out groups. You tell the ethnic majority that their identity is under threat because of the existence of these out groups. And that's basically it. There's not much more to understand. Facism is naked hatred. Fascism is a con trick and people who vote for Trump are the prey of a con trickster.

Nobody has yet been able to say why I'm wrong on this. They can't, because I'm entirely right.

Your just reverting to your irrevlevant retoric... you keep banging this drum about Trump while I'm not contradicting you. It's called a straw man but to be honest you have committed virtually every logical fallacy in the book that there is little point having a discussion with you.

The only discusion I was having was about you painting everyone and everyone with the same facist brush if they differentiate or even question you,  All this is despite not knowing be willing to understand why people think the way they do. If that makes me a bigot in your book youve lost any logical flow to your train of thought. In fact your  posts are so lacking logic, full of retoric and ad hominem that you might find you have more on common with Trump than you think ;-)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2020, 09:31:54 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.

This is what gets me. Antifa has been built up by its enemies to be something a lot more than it is ffs. A terrorist organisation. What a joke

Should be fun trying to prove membership in court.

And of course he hadn't a f**king word to say about the militia fuckwits taking over statehouses with grenade launchers and assault rifles.

This country is heading for a split if things continue as they are.
any of these guys who are from out of state and are arrested for property damage or looting should get a hefty sentence best way to stop organized looting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Seems like Trump's lash-out-at-the-media-and-shoot-the-messenger strategy is paying off.

But if Biden does get in somehow, I could see him serving one term and then someone like Newsom having a go.

I wouldn't write Biden off yet. It's a long way to November and a lot of dead bodies are going to be piled up between now and then thanks to Donald. A lot will depend on how successful he is in shifting blame away from himself. He'll take credit for anything that goes right and deflect blame for anything that goes wrong, which will play well with the religious crowd who are used to doing that sort of thing with God. I don't know if it'll be enough with swing voters though.
Well well well. Trump starting to get it tight again. Maybe his supporters are dropping dead with the virus.

2020 winner:
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Wheisht! Trump getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 10:09:02 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.

This is what gets me. Antifa has been built up by its enemies to be something a lot more than it is ffs. A terrorist organisation. What a joke

I'm sure there's some logic behind the designation

I'd say it's allows them to have federal Agents go undercover. I'd guess there might also be some asset forefeiture angle

Some people are going to do serious time if they don't cool their jets.

I saw some girl from the Catskills is facing attempted murder charges for throwing a petrol bomb into an NYPD cruiser
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 31, 2020, 10:35:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 03:51:53 PM
Donald Trump has 3% (three per cent) support among blacks. There's a damn good chance you'd get a higher percentage of Catholics voting for the DUP.

We are so lucky to have several posters here, on a GAA discussion board, of all things, telling pretty much the entirety of black America that it doesn't know what it's talking about.

"Whitey" knows best, eh.

When did I do that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 31, 2020, 11:05:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2020, 09:31:54 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.

This is what gets me. Antifa has been built up by its enemies to be something a lot more than it is ffs. A terrorist organisation. What a joke

Should be fun trying to prove membership in court.

And of course he hadn't a f**king word to say about the militia fuckwits taking over statehouses with grenade launchers and assault rifles.

This country is heading for a split if things continue as they are.
any of these guys who are from out of state and are arrested for property damage or looting should get a hefty sentence best way to stop organized looting.

Yep, whether antifa or the Hawaiian shirt brigade or whoever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:08:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 09:38:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 05:12:44 AM

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution
The reason you claim what I say is "irrelevant" is that you don't suffer in any way from racism perpetrated by whites.

And thus you have taken a stance that it is entirely irrelevant to you.

In other words, your stance is "I'm alright, Jack, racism is fine, as long as I'm not the victim of it."

Belief in white supremacism is not a "grievance", as you claim.

Inequality of wealth and life chances is a grievance.

Which precisely nobody in the Republican party has any intention of dealing with - Republican ideology is based on perpetuating it - and which Trump has made exponentially worse.

Anybody who genuinely cared about wealth inequality would be all in for preogressive candidates, of which precisely none exist in the Republican party.

Trump cares less than nothing for poor people. He cares only about channelling wealth to the very richest in society. He is an elite plutocrat fascist with a literal dystopian "burn it down" vision of society, backed monetarily by people of the exact same mindset.

I get it exactly about people like you. And that's what bothers you and others like you here.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world for the reasons you think like you do, but you won't find a legitimate one, you'll only find a fake rationalisation for your own bigotry.

I'm curious.... what is my "stance"? And on what exactly?

Just for reference..I was calling out your vitriol and unwillingness to understand root causes of political phenomenons like the current populist nationalism sweeping the world. I never expressed any opinion on that political movement.... so what exactly makes me a bigot?
Your stance is that you have called discussion of the racism of the Trump regime irrelevant. You attempt to see nuance on an issue over which there is none. Racism is an evil cancer. Racism is endemic in America. White America still cannot come to terms with its evil past or present. It has chosen to perpetuate racism.

What are the so called "legitimate grievances" which justify the rise of American fascism?

I understand the root causes of current day fascist movements like Trump just fine, thanks.

They are they exact same in nature as those which led to the rise of the Nazis.

It isn't difficult. You whip up an ethnic majority into a mob, and blame economic hardship and all of society's ills on an "out group", or out groups. You tell the ethnic majority that their identity is under threat because of the existence of these out groups. And that's basically it. There's not much more to understand. Facism is naked hatred. Fascism is a con trick and people who vote for Trump are the prey of a con trickster.

Nobody has yet been able to say why I'm wrong on this. They can't, because I'm entirely right.

Your just reverting to your irrevlevant retoric... you keep banging this drum about Trump while I'm not contradicting you. It's called a straw man but to be honest you have committed virtually every logical fallacy in the book that there is little point having a discussion with you.

The only discusion I was having was about you painting everyone and everyone with the same facist brush if they differentiate or even question you,  All this is despite not knowing be willing to understand why people think the way they do. If that makes me a bigot in your book youve lost any logical flow to your train of thought. In fact your  posts are so lacking logic, full of retoric and ad hominem that you might find you have more on common with Trump than you think ;-)
You've literally just invented a straw man there.

And again, you dismiss the key point, that Trump cannot be discussed without focussing the racism and the fascism, as "irrelevant".

There are a lot of racists who think they are good people.

As soon as you admit that, we can move on.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:10:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.

This is what gets me. Antifa has been built up by its enemies to be something a lot more than it is ffs. A terrorist organisation. What a joke

Anti-fascism - "terrorism"

White supremacists, Nazis - "very good people"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:15:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 31, 2020, 09:31:54 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.

This is what gets me. Antifa has been built up by its enemies to be something a lot more than it is ffs. A terrorist organisation. What a joke

Should be fun trying to prove membership in court.

And of course he hadn't a f**king word to say about the militia fuckwits taking over statehouses with grenade launchers and assault rifles.

This country is heading for a split if things continue as they are.
Russia strongly desires the US to break apart the way the Soviet Union did.

So called "secessionist" movements have been heavily funded and promoted by Russia and staffed by Russian plants.

Trump's purpose is to make the US ungovernable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on May 31, 2020, 11:22:49 PM
What would most likely happen in response should 500 or so heavily armed dark skinned folk, a Black America patriot rally of sorts, turn up at the Michigan capitol building and express their disapproval at the murder of yet another unarmed black man by the Minneapolis police.

Least likely I suppose would be a note of praise from the president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:28:42 PM
Maybe it's time the police in America were designated as terrorists?

After all, they are infested with people who do fit the literal description of the word terrorist.

"a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

Certainly to many, many African-Americans, they are looked upon as such - and with much justification. Very similar to how the British Army were looked upon by Catholics in the North.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 11:42:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:28:42 PM
Maybe it's time the police in America were designated as terrorists?

After all, they are infested with people who do fit the literal description of the word terrorist.

"a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

Certainly to many, many African-Americans, they are looked upon as such - and with much justification. Very similar to how the British Army were looked upon by Catholics in the North.

It's interesting to see how you can know how whole demographics groups of people that you've often never met before think and feel. Always seems to be in a sweeping homogeneous fashion also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:46:52 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 11:42:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:28:42 PM
Maybe it's time the police in America were designated as terrorists?

After all, they are infested with people who do fit the literal description of the word terrorist.

"a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

Certainly to many, many African-Americans, they are looked upon as such - and with much justification. Very similar to how the British Army were looked upon by Catholics in the North.

It's interesting to see how you can know how whole demographics groups of people that you've often never met before think and feel. Always seems to be in a sweeping homogeneous fashion also.

Are you disputing that many African-Americans look upon police as the enemy?

Are you disputing that they have much justification for such?

Have you been following the news?

Have you been following American history?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 12:03:23 AM
Best healthcare in the wuddled:

https://twitter.com/jpm25/status/1266830912999710725

My wife is a healthcare worker and has gotten 3 COVID-19 tests over the last 2 months.  We got the bill for the first one today: $18,415 w/o insurance.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZSv_5fUEAAZl-K?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 12:04:31 AM
57 people arrested in Miami last night 13 from Miami the chief of police just announced at a briefing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 01, 2020, 01:02:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 08:27:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 31, 2020, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
75% of protesters/rioters now are just out to rob and burn stuff  if this keeps going for a few more days it will end up helping trump not hurting him .

Is that an exact amount the 75% or have you just pulled that out of your hole???

(I already know the answer but it would be good for you to confirm it!!)
what would you put it at ?

I wouldn't put it at anything because it's a bullshit number you've just made up to prove a point that is not possible to make!!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 01:44:34 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 01, 2020, 01:02:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 08:27:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 31, 2020, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 31, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
75% of protesters/rioters now are just out to rob and burn stuff  if this keeps going for a few more days it will end up helping trump not hurting him .

Is that an exact amount the 75% or have you just pulled that out of your hole???

(I already know the answer but it would be good for you to confirm it!!)
what would you put it at ?

I wouldn't put it at anything because it's a bullshit number you've just made up to prove a point that is not possible to make!!!
from what I'm seeing it doesn't matter it's just a looting and burning exercise now . George who ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 09:35:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 01:44:34 AM
from what I'm seeing it doesn't matter it's just a looting and burning exercise now . George who ?

Translation: "pipe down, black people, and know your place".

The reason there are protests is that American police are behaving like a rabid white supremacist mob.

And the US president is an out of control racist and fascist.

If you're a Catholic from the North of Ireland, you should understand all this stuff.

If you don't understand it, you're flicking a two fingers sign at Irish history and its lessons.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 09:49:38 AM
At some point, some posters here badly need to take some personal responsibility, to wake up from their paranoid fantasy world and see that not just are they wrong about everything, they themselves are part of the racist problem in America.

At the moment, right-wing posters here just search desperately to delude themselves that everybody else is to blame for the utter failure of the crazy ideology they have bought into. They are the eternal victims in their own mind. It's not even an ideology. It's a far right tribal culture war which the Republicans designed 50 years ago, which has been designed to completely abolish thinking. It's a classic cult, no different in its craziness to that of David Koresh or Jim Jones. This is how fascism works.

Deprogramming is very difficult, however.

Repudiating the Republican party is a prerequisite for basic humanity and decency.

Steve Schmidt is a former Republican, so it can be done.

https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1267139635920191495

Steve Schmidt
@SteveSchmidtSES

Trump's Presidency isn't just a failure, it is a disaster unequaled in the 244 year history of the United States. America is in chaos, 100,000 of us are dead and the economy shattered because of Trump's incompetence. He is unfit and making this terrible moment worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on June 01, 2020, 12:35:02 PM
But but but I thought it was some "terrorist group" called antifascism was the cause of it.
I see reports Trump was put into an underground bunker during protests in Washington last night.
Copying Hitler all the way as usual!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on June 01, 2020, 12:38:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 10:09:02 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.

This is what gets me. Antifa has been built up by its enemies to be something a lot more than it is ffs. A terrorist organisation. What a joke

I'm sure there's some logic behind the designation

I'd say it's allows them to have federal Agents go undercover. I'd guess there might also be some asset forefeiture angle

Some people are going to do serious time if they don't cool their jets.

I saw some girl from the Catskills is facing attempted murder charges for throwing a petrol bomb into an NYPD cruiser

Go undercover in what?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 01:00:25 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 01, 2020, 12:38:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 31, 2020, 10:09:02 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Trump says he is designating "Antifa" as a terrorist organisation.

But there is no organisation called Antifa.

"Antifa" simply stands for anti-fascist.

So now, being anti-fascist will not just be banned, but will be classed as being terrorism.

Certain posters here might be good enough to now apologise for consistently denying that the Trump regime is fascist.

Because Trump has literally gone and proved my analysis entirely right.

And it feels shit to be right.

This is what gets me. Antifa has been built up by its enemies to be something a lot more than it is ffs. A terrorist organisation. What a joke

I'm sure there's some logic behind the designation

I'd say it's allows them to have federal Agents go undercover. I'd guess there might also be some asset forefeiture angle

Some people are going to do serious time if they don't cool their jets.

I saw some girl from the Catskills is facing attempted murder charges for throwing a petrol bomb into an NYPD cruiser

Go undercover in what?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2020/05/president-trump-antifa-declared-terrorist-organization-1202947652/amp/

"Section 802 does not create a new crime of domestic terrorism.  However, it does expand the type of conduct that the government can investigate when it is investigating "terrorism."   The USA PATRIOT Act expanded governmental powers to investigate terrorism, and some of these powers are applicable to domestic terrorism."


I'm guessing warrantless  surveillance Would be the first step. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 03:27:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 09:35:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 01:44:34 AM
from what I'm seeing it doesn't matter it's just a looting and burning exercise now . George who ?

Translation: "pipe down, black people, and know your place".

The reason there are protests is that American police are behaving like a rabid white supremacist mob.

And the US president is an out of control racist and fascist.

If you're a Catholic from the North of Ireland, you should understand all this stuff.

If you don't understand it, you're flicking a two fingers sign at Irish history and its lessons.
just like the footage of George Floyd's death the camera doesn't lie what's on the footage is what's happening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 03:40:30 PM
https://youtu.be/KGT167BLOSE


(https://www.therugbyforum.com/attachments/fb_img_1590904349207-jpg.8215/)


https://twitter.com/nataliealund/status/1266877181164089349

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1266917228752056320

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1266908354821206016
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on June 01, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
America is right on the edge. I mean a real breakdown of society is quite possible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 04:01:22 PM
As I said yesterday the NRA must be very happy at how this is playing out

https://mobile.twitter.com/ArtValley818/status/1267459971161022466
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 04:08:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 04:01:22 PM
As I said yesterday the NRA must be very happy at how this is playing out

https://mobile.twitter.com/ArtValley818/status/1267459971161022466

Until one of these vigilantes shoot someone dead, depending on the state.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 04:14:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 04:08:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 04:01:22 PM
As I said yesterday the NRA must be very happy at how this is playing out

https://mobile.twitter.com/ArtValley818/status/1267459971161022466

Until one of these vigilantes shoot someone dead, depending on the state.

Very true, but why let that get in the way of raising wads if cash
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: APM on June 01, 2020, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
America is right on the edge. I mean a real breakdown of society is quite possible.

Don't know about others, but I see serious parallels between this and 1969 here. 
Nothing united about the United States. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 04:18:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 04:14:15 PM
Very true, but why let that get in the way of raising wads if cash

Someone using an automatic rifle to mow down a dozen police wouldn't look so good.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 04:19:28 PM
Quote from: APM on June 01, 2020, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
America is right on the edge. I mean a real breakdown of society is quite possible.

Don't know about others, but I see serious parallels between this and 1969 here. 
Nothing united about the United States.

You've also got an ongoing pandemic and a president who it seems would sacrifice a million citizens if it meant he got reelected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 04:19:28 PM
Quote from: APM on June 01, 2020, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
America is right on the edge. I mean a real breakdown of society is quite possible.

Don't know about others, but I see serious parallels between this and 1969 here. 
Nothing united about the United States.

You've also got an ongoing pandemic and a president who it seems would sacrifice a million citizens if it meant he got reelected.
how would sacrificing a million people help him get re-elected? Would it not do the opposite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 05:19:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 03:27:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 09:35:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 01:44:34 AM
from what I'm seeing it doesn't matter it's just a looting and burning exercise now . George who ?

Translation: "pipe down, black people, and know your place".

The reason there are protests is that American police are behaving like a rabid white supremacist mob.

And the US president is an out of control racist and fascist.

If you're a Catholic from the North of Ireland, you should understand all this stuff.

If you don't understand it, you're flicking a two fingers sign at Irish history and its lessons.
just like the footage of George Floyd's death the camera doesn't lie what's on the footage is what's happening.
The camera doesn't lie. We have video after video after video of police behaving in a brutal manner towards protesters.

And that's what matters.

The anger at police and the ruling fascist regime of Trump is entirely justified, and then some.

This is the issue.

The behaviour of the police in the US is reminiscent of the Black And Tans in this country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 05:22:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 04:19:28 PM
Quote from: APM on June 01, 2020, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
America is right on the edge. I mean a real breakdown of society is quite possible.

Don't know about others, but I see serious parallels between this and 1969 here. 
Nothing united about the United States.

You've also got an ongoing pandemic and a president who it seems would sacrifice a million citizens if it meant he got reelected.
how would sacrificing a million people help him get re-elected? Would it not do the opposite.

He exaggerates obviously.

But, this is the man who thought it was good policy to take babies and young children and drag them away from their screaming mothers at the border. Trump is completely absent of morals, empathy and general humanity.

In fairness to him and his political instincts, I'm sure the child separation played well with a certain section of his base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Seems like Trump's lash-out-at-the-media-and-shoot-the-messenger strategy is paying off.

But if Biden does get in somehow, I could see him serving one term and then someone like Newsom having a go.

I wouldn't write Biden off yet. It's a long way to November and a lot of dead bodies are going to be piled up between now and then thanks to Donald. A lot will depend on how successful he is in shifting blame away from himself. He'll take credit for anything that goes right and deflect blame for anything that goes wrong, which will play well with the religious crowd who are used to doing that sort of thing with God. I don't know if it'll be enough with swing voters though.
Well well well. Trump starting to get it tight again. Maybe his supporters are dropping dead with the virus.

2020 winner:
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Wheisht! Trump getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Well well well. Now it's even. Trump's odds of reelection are in freefall. As the covid death toll mounts and the riots spread, I expect to see him get even more desperate. Expect more scapegoating of China, Mexico, immigrants, and people of colour in the next few months. That includes you, Whitey. I assume you're an immigrant. Don't for one minute think he has your back.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 06:16:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 04:19:28 PM
You've also got an ongoing pandemic and a president who it seems would sacrifice a million citizens if it meant he got reelected.
how would sacrificing a million people help him get re-elected? Would it not do the opposite.

How many have needlessly died due to COVID because The Donald sought to chase the short-term economy for his reelection?

How many will die over the coming months as he continues to chase the short-term economy?

Now, add these riots and his ego's need to appear as the strongman.

I suppose I should amend my original statement to:

... and a president who it seems would sacrifice a million citizens if he thought it meant he got reelected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 06:19:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 05:19:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 03:27:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 09:35:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 01:44:34 AM
from what I'm seeing it doesn't matter it's just a looting and burning exercise now . George who ?

Translation: "pipe down, black people, and know your place".

The reason there are protests is that American police are behaving like a rabid white supremacist mob.

And the US president is an out of control racist and fascist.

If you're a Catholic from the North of Ireland, you should understand all this stuff.

If you don't understand it, you're flicking a two fingers sign at Irish history and its lessons.
just like the footage of George Floyd's death the camera doesn't lie what's on the footage is what's happening.
The camera doesn't lie. We have video after video after video of police behaving in a brutal manner towards protesters.

And that's what matters.

The anger at police and the ruling fascist regime of Trump is entirely justified, and then some.

This is the issue.

The behaviour of the police in the US is reminiscent of the Black And Tans in this country.
what about videos of innocent people trying to protect their businesses and getting beat to an inch of their life or the homeless guy getting his stuff burnt and the crowd cheering you see any of those videos? I see both .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 06:19:57 PM
what about videos of innocent people trying to protect their businesses and getting beat to an inch of their life or the homeless guy getting his stuff burnt and the crowd cheering you see any of those videos? I see both .

What about them?

Are they relevant to police brutality?

Are you saying the police are brutal only to the perpetrators of such action?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 06:53:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 06:19:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 05:19:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 03:27:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 09:35:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 01:44:34 AM
from what I'm seeing it doesn't matter it's just a looting and burning exercise now . George who ?

Translation: "pipe down, black people, and know your place".

The reason there are protests is that American police are behaving like a rabid white supremacist mob.

And the US president is an out of control racist and fascist.

If you're a Catholic from the North of Ireland, you should understand all this stuff.

If you don't understand it, you're flicking a two fingers sign at Irish history and its lessons.
just like the footage of George Floyd's death the camera doesn't lie what's on the footage is what's happening.
The camera doesn't lie. We have video after video after video of police behaving in a brutal manner towards protesters.

And that's what matters.

The anger at police and the ruling fascist regime of Trump is entirely justified, and then some.

This is the issue.

The behaviour of the police in the US is reminiscent of the Black And Tans in this country.
what about videos of innocent people trying to protect their businesses and getting beat to an inch of their life or the homeless guy getting his stuff burnt and the crowd cheering you see any of those videos? I see both .
Yeah but the point is this. US police are not supposed to act like a racist death squad.

The extreme anger at them doing so is righteous and just.

The issues facing the black community here are the same ones faced by oppressed peoples everywhere, throughout history, and very similar to those faced by Irish people both north and south at the hands of British state forces.

I sympathise a lot with anybody who has had a business burned down and of course that is wrong. But we don't actually know who is doing it. It is very likely the case that some protestors have overstepped the mark in certain instances. But it may well also be the case that right-wing agents provocateurs are deliberately inciting violence - and that would be a much bigger story - because it would prove that there are very sinister forces at work not just against black people in everyday life, but against their very right to even protest. Such acts would amount to outright fascist tactics. Certainly the anecdotal evidence tells us that that is indeeed happening and US intelligence also says that outside forces are intent on fomenting as much violence and chaos as possible.

If indeed some of the violence has been caused by people who are genuinely angry with police, that is very unhelpful - but at the same time it is very understandable - black people are simply fed up of the continuing endemic racism of white America - and it has been shown that peaceful protests only get you so far. Look at how Colin Kaepernick was treated, completely frozen out of the NFL for no other reason than he took a knee. It's 52 years since MLK was murdered by a white supremacist and black people are still fighting the same fights. Frustration at the lack of success of peaceful protest inevitably breeds massive resentment. And judging by the videos over the last few days, police across the US seem intent on egging on violence rather than stopping it, and engaging in their own wanton violence.

Again, the issue is police brutality, racism, and the fascist in the White House. This is the story - not property damage caused by angry people.

Violence is of course regrettable - but property damage can always be repaired. It is not the issue. Focussing on it is a deliberate deflection from the issue.

The issue is the racism, the brutality, the injustice. Black lives taken by police lynchings can't be repaired.

This is why there is anger, because the black community sees that nothing ever changes. In fact things have got worse.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 06:58:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 06:19:57 PM
what about videos of innocent people trying to protect their businesses and getting beat to an inch of their life or the homeless guy getting his stuff burnt and the crowd cheering you see any of those videos? I see both .

What about them?

Are they relevant to police brutality?

Are you saying the police are brutal only to the perpetrators of such action?
no the police aren't doing anything to protect businesses or the owners , what does looting a target 5 miles from a protest have to do with George Floyd .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 06:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 06:58:05 PM
no the police aren't doing anything to protect businesses or the owners , what does looting a target 5 miles from a protest have to do with George Floyd .

f**k all to do with George Floyd.

But here is the difference - no one is excusing their actions - you are trying to excuse the police.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 06:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 06:58:05 PM
no the police aren't doing anything to protect businesses or the owners , what does looting a target 5 miles from a protest have to do with George Floyd .

f**k all to do with George Floyd.

But here is the difference - no one is excusing their actions - you are trying to excuse the police.
no
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 07:09:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 06:58:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 06:19:57 PM
what about videos of innocent people trying to protect their businesses and getting beat to an inch of their life or the homeless guy getting his stuff burnt and the crowd cheering you see any of those videos? I see both .

What about them?

Are they relevant to police brutality?

Are you saying the police are brutal only to the perpetrators of such action?
no the police aren't doing anything to protect businesses or the owners , what does looting a target 5 miles from a protest have to do with George Floyd .
What does it have to do with the actual issue - police brutality and endemic racism?

In January 1972 14 innocent people were massacred in Derry.

Using your narrative and the narrative of certain other posters here, the real story was not the 14 massacred by British paratroopers - but the burning down of the British embassy in Dublin a few days later.

But the burning down of the British embassy, regrettable as it was, wasn't the issue. It happened because a few people in a crowd of thousands went too far. That crowd had justified and righteous rage at the extreme injustice of the butchering of 14 innocent people on their own streets by British forces. That a few idiots went too far did not invalidate that justified and righteous rage in any way.

The cold blooded murder of those innocent people in Derry by British forces, and the barbaric injustice at the heart of it, was the issue.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
20 people shot dead in Chicago this weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2020/6/1/21275944/chicago-weekend-shootings-most-violent-weekend-2020-may-29-june-1


10 people shot dead in Chicago last weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/5/25/21268348/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-may-22-26

But hey, let's blame the cops




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 08:12:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
20 people shot dead in Chicago this weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2020/6/1/21275944/chicago-weekend-shootings-most-violent-weekend-2020-may-29-june-1


10 people shot dead in Chicago last weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/5/25/21268348/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-may-22-26

But hey, let's blame the cops

Is someone blaming the cops for shooting those people in Chicago?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 08:12:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
20 people shot dead in Chicago this weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2020/6/1/21275944/chicago-weekend-shootings-most-violent-weekend-2020-may-29-june-1


10 people shot dead in Chicago last weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/5/25/21268348/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-may-22-26

But hey, let's blame the cops

Is someone blaming the cops for shooting those people in Chicago?

No....they're blaming the cops for the general unrest this past weekend

There's plenty of unrest at the best of times as evidenced by the high murder and crime rates
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 08:20:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
20 people shot dead in Chicago this weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2020/6/1/21275944/chicago-weekend-shootings-most-violent-weekend-2020-may-29-june-1


10 people shot dead in Chicago last weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/5/25/21268348/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-may-22-26

But hey, let's blame the cops
Quite staggering that somebody could miss the point to such a degree, you'd think acknowledging the pain and injustice black America rightly feels would be easy - but obviously not for some people.

I wonder why that is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 08:24:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 08:12:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
20 people shot dead in Chicago this weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2020/6/1/21275944/chicago-weekend-shootings-most-violent-weekend-2020-may-29-june-1


10 people shot dead in Chicago last weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/5/25/21268348/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-may-22-26

But hey, let's blame the cops

Is someone blaming the cops for shooting those people in Chicago?

No....they're blaming the cops for the general unrest this past weekend

There's plenty of unrest at the best of times as evidenced by the high murder and crime rates

Who is blaming the cops for the unrest in Chicago this weekend?

If they are being blamed, at least partially, are they blameless?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:33:20 PM
SIDS blaming them....maybe you interpreted his
Comments differently than I did
"The anger at police and the ruling fascist regime of Trump is entirely justified, and then some."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:37:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 08:20:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
20 people shot dead in Chicago this weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2020/6/1/21275944/chicago-weekend-shootings-most-violent-weekend-2020-may-29-june-1


10 people shot dead in Chicago last weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/5/25/21268348/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-may-22-26

But hey, let's blame the cops
Quite staggering that somebody could miss the point to such a degree, you'd think acknowledging the pain and injustice black America rightly feels would be easy - but obviously not for some people.

I wonder why that is.

Do you know any cops?

Are you related to any cops?

Do you have any idea what they deal with on a daily basis just trying to make live halfway bearable for the vast majority of African Americans who live in these terrible neighborhoods (and who are just trying to live their lives)

As per usual you probably gathered all your information And opinions from some left wing blogger

Get out in the real world me lad, and then come back and talk to us
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 01, 2020, 08:38:41 PM
King of the bad faith posters on here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:46:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 01, 2020, 08:38:41 PM
King of the bad faith posters on here

I lived in Chicago for a year....I knew several cops as I used to drink in a cop bar

I even knew a guy who was a Chicago Housing Authority cop, going around serving warrants and helping evict drug dealers......that's guy had some stories!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 08:55:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:37:47 PMDo you have any idea what they deal with on a daily basis just trying to make live halfway bearable for the vast majority of African Americans who live in these terrible neighborhoods (and who are just trying to live their lives)

Oh, does it entail kneeling on their heads for ~10 mins?

Or strangling folks so they can't breathe?

What about arresting news crews? Or even shooting at news crews?

Shit, I didn't realise all the above helped to make life halfway bearable... going the extra mile eh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:33:20 PM
SIDS blaming them....maybe you interpreted his
Comments differently than I did
"The anger at police and the ruling fascist regime of Trump is entirely justified, and then some."

I must have missed where he blamed the specific deaths in Chicago you refer to on the cops.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 08:55:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:37:47 PMDo you have any idea what they deal with on a daily basis just trying to make live halfway bearable for the vast majority of African Americans who live in these terrible neighborhoods (and who are just trying to live their lives)

Oh, does it entail kneeling on their heads for ~10 mins?

Or strangling folks so they can't breathe?

What about arresting news crews? Or even shooting at news crews?

Shit, I didn't realise all the above helped to make life halfway bearable... going the extra mile eh?

Blaming all cops for wrongdoing is as stupid as saying all African Americans are criminals
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:33:20 PM
SIDS blaming them....maybe you interpreted his
Comments differently than I did
"The anger at police and the ruling fascist regime of Trump is entirely justified, and then some."

I must have missed where he blamed the specific deaths in Chicago you refer to on the cops.

Yes....it went over your head
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:33:20 PM
SIDS blaming them....maybe you interpreted his
Comments differently than I did
"The anger at police and the ruling fascist regime of Trump is entirely justified, and then some."

I must have missed where he blamed the specific deaths in Chicago you refer to on the cops.

Yes....it went over your head

No, I looked at the exchange with Gmac and I don't see any reference to Chicago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 09:08:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 08:55:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:37:47 PMDo you have any idea what they deal with on a daily basis just trying to make live halfway bearable for the vast majority of African Americans who live in these terrible neighborhoods (and who are just trying to live their lives)

Oh, does it entail kneeling on their heads for ~10 mins?

Or strangling folks so they can't breathe?

What about arresting news crews? Or even shooting at news crews?

Shit, I didn't realise all the above helped to make life halfway bearable... going the extra mile eh?

Blaming all cops for wrongdoing is as stupid as saying all African Americans are criminals

And bringing up "black on black" crime or Chicago every time someone raises the issue of policy brutality against unarmed black men is just as stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 01, 2020, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
America is right on the edge. I mean a real breakdown of society is quite possible.

The make American great again slogan hasn't aged very well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 09:41:19 PM
Not really

Policing does not exist in a vacuum

The ills of the AA community do not exist because some cops are assholes

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 01, 2020, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
America is right on the edge. I mean a real breakdown of society is quite possible.

The make American great again slogan hasn't aged very well.

It's great for some people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 09:41:19 PM
Not really

Policing does not exist in a vacuum

The ills of the AA community do not exist because some cops are assholes

1. The "ills of the AA community" are directly related to the historical wrongs and injustices visited upon them by society, including its institutions of law enforcement.
2. Cops got away with this shit for decades, because wider society either didn't care or didn't know and law enforcement either indulged or covered up such conduct, whether or not it was few bad apples. Mobile phones videos changed all that, although unfortunately exposure and justice is still contingent on whether or not someone happens to be around with a phone handy. If those four cops had got Floyd on some quiet, deserted alley or yard, there'd be no protests or riots. And Officer Chauvin would still be going about his official business.
3. Policing socially deprived communities is undoubtedly a very tough job. However, that does not mean that people can be treated like animals, that every black man should be treated suspiciously, and that cops should not be held to a much higher standard than criminals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 09:59:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 01, 2020, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
America is right on the edge. I mean a real breakdown of society is quite possible.

The make American great again slogan hasn't aged very well.

It's great for some people

It always was.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 10:00:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 09:41:19 PM
Not really

Policing does not exist in a vacuum

The ills of the AA community do not exist because some cops are assholes

1. The "ills of the AA community" are directly related to the historical wrongs and injustices visited upon them by society, including its institutions of law enforcement.
2. Cops got away with this shit for decades, because wider society either didn't care or didn't know and law enforcement either indulged or covered up such conduct, whether or not it was few bad apples. Mobile phones videos changed all that, although unfortunately exposure and justice is still contingent on whether or not someone happens to be around with a phone handy. If those four cops had got Floyd on some quiet, deserted alley or yard, there'd be no protests or riots. And Officer Chauvin would still be going about his official business.
3. Policing such communities is undoubtedly a very tough job. However, that does not mean that people can be treated like animals, that every black man should be treated suspiciously, and that cops should not be held to a much higher standard than criminals.

Agreed, but burning your city to the ground, looting left right and center and kicking the living $hit out of anyone who disagrees with you accomplishes absolutely nothing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 10:11:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 10:00:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 09:41:19 PM
Not really

Policing does not exist in a vacuum

The ills of the AA community do not exist because some cops are assholes

1. The "ills of the AA community" are directly related to the historical wrongs and injustices visited upon them by society, including its institutions of law enforcement.
2. Cops got away with this shit for decades, because wider society either didn't care or didn't know and law enforcement either indulged or covered up such conduct, whether or not it was few bad apples. Mobile phones videos changed all that, although unfortunately exposure and justice is still contingent on whether or not someone happens to be around with a phone handy. If those four cops had got Floyd on some quiet, deserted alley or yard, there'd be no protests or riots. And Officer Chauvin would still be going about his official business.
3. Policing such communities is undoubtedly a very tough job. However, that does not mean that people can be treated like animals, that every black man should be treated suspiciously, and that cops should not be held to a much higher standard than criminals.

Agreed, but burning your city to the ground, looting left right and center and kicking the living $hit out of anyone who disagrees with you accomplishes absolutely nothing

No doubt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on June 01, 2020, 10:13:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 08:20:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
20 people shot dead in Chicago this weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2020/6/1/21275944/chicago-weekend-shootings-most-violent-weekend-2020-may-29-june-1


10 people shot dead in Chicago last weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/5/25/21268348/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-may-22-26

But hey, let's blame the cops
Quite staggering that somebody could miss the point to such a degree, you'd think acknowledging the pain and injustice black America rightly feels would be easy - but obviously not for some people.

I wonder why that is.

look at who you are replying to and ask yourself if you are surprised
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 10:15:10 PM
What the "it's just a few bad apples" merchants forget about the metaphor is that it's not just the bad apple that you're at risk of eating. One bad apple can cause the entire barrel to rot. One bad cop, who is tolerated by the system, can turn good cops bad. How? By contributing to the culture of circling the wagons and defending "one of our own" no matter what the crimes are. By staying silent when cops abuse their authority.

When a cop gets away with murdering someone in broad daylight and in cold blood, while a camera is pointed at him, in the age of social media, knowing full well that video footage is going to go around the world in a matter of minutes, and still keeps on strangling his defenseless victim, it's because he knows that his chances of getting as much as a slap on the wrist for it are almost negligible. His chances of being prosecuted for it are vanishingly small. And his chances of doing any time for it are too insignificant to even consider. A psychotic murderer in uniform has no incentive to desist. If he wants to kill with impunity, he knows he can do it because his colleagues and his union have all got his back. He knows that the police department will defend him, his union will defend him, prosecutors who have a cozy relationship with the cops will not want to ruffle any blue feathers, and if by some miracle it gets as far as a court then it's a good bet that there'll be an all-white jury calling the shots.

ALL cops are responsible for the behavior of their colleagues. They are responsible for the culture that allows these people to get away with murder. One bad apple can rot the barrel, as well as the entire system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 10:16:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
20 people shot dead in Chicago this weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2020/6/1/21275944/chicago-weekend-shootings-most-violent-weekend-2020-may-29-june-1


10 people shot dead in Chicago last weekend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/5/25/21268348/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-may-22-26

But hey, let's blame the cops

Nice try, but the loose gun laws in Indiana are the reason for Chicago's violence and you know it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 10:17:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 08:33:20 PM
SIDS blaming them....maybe you interpreted his
Comments differently than I did
"The anger at police and the ruling fascist regime of Trump is entirely justified, and then some."

I must have missed where he blamed the specific deaths in Chicago you refer to on the cops.

Yes....it went over your head

No, I looked at the exchange with Gmac and I don't see any reference to Chicago.
Conservatives love Chicago. It's an outlier that they think proves all of their talking points, whether it's about gun control or "black-on-black crime."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 10:19:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 10:00:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 01, 2020, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 09:41:19 PM
Not really

Policing does not exist in a vacuum

The ills of the AA community do not exist because some cops are assholes

1. The "ills of the AA community" are directly related to the historical wrongs and injustices visited upon them by society, including its institutions of law enforcement.
2. Cops got away with this shit for decades, because wider society either didn't care or didn't know and law enforcement either indulged or covered up such conduct, whether or not it was few bad apples. Mobile phones videos changed all that, although unfortunately exposure and justice is still contingent on whether or not someone happens to be around with a phone handy. If those four cops had got Floyd on some quiet, deserted alley or yard, there'd be no protests or riots. And Officer Chauvin would still be going about his official business.
3. Policing such communities is undoubtedly a very tough job. However, that does not mean that people can be treated like animals, that every black man should be treated suspiciously, and that cops should not be held to a much higher standard than criminals.

Agreed, but burning your city to the ground, looting left right and center and kicking the living $hit out of anyone who disagrees with you accomplishes absolutely nothing
And what, pray tell, is accomplished by allowing cops to murder the citizens they're sworn to protect? What is accomplished by having innocent civilians living out their lives in terror and fear for their lives because of the threat of violence and murder from the police?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 10:26:22 PM
Any Irishman who takes the side of an oppressor in a case like this really puts his Irishness into doubt.

You're no Irishman, Whitey. You've been so brainwashed into this cult of conservatism that it's impossible to reason with you. You're a lost cause. A brick wall. Any further correspondence with you is pointless. You are beyond redemption. Beyond hope. Any further discourse with you is likely to be as productive as all previous attempts to get reality into your impregnable skull.

The ignore feature is all that's left for you.

I don't hate you, I pity you. There was probably a time when you were reasonable, but cults can do terrible things to people. This bitterness and hatred that seems to shape your worldview is not healthy, and as a fellow human being I do hope you find a way out of the dark place that you keep sinking into.

Good luck. And goodbye.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 01, 2020, 10:33:00 PM
The Lincoln Project (run by anti-Trump conservatives, including Mr. Kelly-Ann Conway) have a new video about the confederate flag:

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln (https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 10:34:06 PM
https://youtu.be/wv5YWHliaNs

Hope you guys never run into bucks like this......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on June 01, 2020, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 10:34:06 PM
https://youtu.be/wv5YWHliaNs

Hope you guys never run into bucks like this......
So the police can do what they want cos there are some bad guys out there. Bloody Sunday and Operation Motorman was grand cos there were IRA men in Derry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2020, 10:47:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on June 01, 2020, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 10:34:06 PM
https://youtu.be/wv5YWHliaNs

Hope you guys never run into bucks like this......
So the police can do what they want cos there are some bad guys out there. Bloody Sunday and Operation Motorman was grand cos there were IRA men in Derry.

Who said that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 01, 2020, 11:05:31 PM
The 2nd amendment was never more secure after this weekend.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 11:42:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 10:26:22 PM
Any Irishman who takes the side of an oppressor in a case like this really puts his Irishness into doubt.

You're no Irishman, Whitey. You've been so brainwashed into this cult of conservatism that it's impossible to reason with you. You're a lost cause. A brick wall. Any further correspondence with you is pointless. You are beyond redemption. Beyond hope. Any further discourse with you is likely to be as productive as all previous attempts to get reality into your impregnable skull.

The ignore feature is all that's left for you.

I don't hate you, I pity you. There was probably a time when you were reasonable, but cults can do terrible things to people. This bitterness and hatred that seems to shape your worldview is not healthy, and as a fellow human being I do hope you find a way out of the dark place that you keep sinking into.

Good luck. And goodbye.
Nail on head.

A lot of this comes back to certain posters here being brainwashed into having a fundamentally imperialistic view of the world, that might and empire is right.

A betrayal of their own history.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 11:50:01 PM
Trump pouring petrol on the fire now.

Putin must have had a word in his ear.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 11:50:51 PM
This is the speech of a dictator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: larryin89 on June 02, 2020, 12:03:11 AM
Murica in a bad place , trump has completely lost the plot , he's just after practically declaring war on the streets . If the governors don't use the national guard to quell the riots , he said he will deploy the military into the streets using some 1807 legislative thingy that the president can avail of .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 12:05:00 AM
Attacking peaceful protestors is the hallmark of fascism.

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT
Tear gas has been fired outside the White House at protesters who, on TV, appeared to have their hands raised or were not being aggressive, just chanting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 12:06:26 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 01, 2020, 11:42:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 10:26:22 PM
Any Irishman who takes the side of an oppressor in a case like this really puts his Irishness into doubt.

You're no Irishman, Whitey. You've been so brainwashed into this cult of conservatism that it's impossible to reason with you. You're a lost cause. A brick wall. Any further correspondence with you is pointless. You are beyond redemption. Beyond hope. Any further discourse with you is likely to be as productive as all previous attempts to get reality into your impregnable skull.

The ignore feature is all that's left for you.

I don't hate you, I pity you. There was probably a time when you were reasonable, but cults can do terrible things to people. This bitterness and hatred that seems to shape your worldview is not healthy, and as a fellow human being I do hope you find a way out of the dark place that you keep sinking into.

Good luck. And goodbye.
Nail on head.

A lot of this comes back to certain posters here being brainwashed into having a fundamentally imperialistic view of the world, that might and empire is right.

A betrayal of their own history.

Nah.....I don't lecture people on what's going on in Northern Ireland because I don't live there and have never lived there

I find it amusing that you, who may never even have set foot in this country, somehow has better insight and superior understanding into what happens here than people who've lived here for decades.

But this is a discussion forum and you are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 02, 2020, 12:16:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2020, 10:34:06 PM
https://youtu.be/wv5YWHliaNs

Hope you guys never run into bucks like this......
Irrelevant whataboutery.
But let's have a nostalgic moment of praise for this brave police officer who killed an (unarmed) man Sean Downes at close range with a plastic bullet in front of the world's press and whose action was exonerated in court.

(https://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2019/07/04/213826502-70b970a0-60d8-448c-9b18-df3cad84ba6e.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 02, 2020, 12:18:00 AM
"I am your President of law and order and an ally of peaceful protestors"

Except you fucks on the way to my Church get the f**k outta here!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2020, 12:19:35 AM
Ok so.
A white policeman who didn't have 17 previous complaints against him didn't spend 8 minutes kneeling on a black suspect's neck and the suspect didn't die of asphyxiation?

Got that Sid who doesn't live in U S.?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 02, 2020, 12:31:10 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2020, 12:19:35 AM
Ok so.
A white policeman who didn't have 17 previous complaints against him didn't spend 8 minutes kneeling on a black suspect's neck and the suspect didn't die of asphyxiation?

Got that Sid who doesn't live in U S.?
why didn't the Democrat chief of police ,mayor , governor , ag do something about it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2020, 12:41:20 AM
You tell me you live in the US ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 12:47:01 AM
So according to Sid no one is allowed to criticize the looters and rioters  who were out by the thousands this weekend

Here's his quote


"Translation: "pipe down, black people, and know your place".

The reason there are protests is that American police are behaving like a rabid white supremacist mob.

And the US president is an out of control racist and fascist.

If you're a Catholic from the North of Ireland, you should understand all this stuff.

If you don't understand it, you're flicking a two fingers sign at Irish history and its lessons."




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 12:50:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2020, 12:19:35 AM
Ok so.
A white policeman who didn't have 17 previous complaints against him didn't spend 8 minutes kneeling on a black suspect's neck and the suspect didn't die of asphyxiation?

Got that Sid who doesn't live in U S.?

I listen to and respect everyone's opinion, whether I agree with them or not

He doesn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:05:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 12:06:26 AM

Nah.....I don't lecture people on what's going on in Northern Ireland because I don't live there and have never lived there

I find it amusing that you, who may never even have set foot in this country, somehow has better insight and superior understanding into what happens here than people who've lived here for decades.

But this is a discussion forum and you are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else
There are dogs on the streets of Baallyhaunis who have better insight and understanding into what happens in the US than you do.

Deciding to become a full blown far right culture warrior, as you did, sort of kills any capacity for critical thinking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:37:19 AM
"Legitimate grievances"

"Not fascism"

https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/status/1267564021970067458

MAGA life coach Brenden Dilley declares that he and millions of other gun-loving Americans are just waiting until Trump "gives us the green light" to take to the streets and start gunning down protesters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2020, 02:13:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 02, 2020, 12:31:10 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2020, 12:19:35 AM
Ok so.
A white policeman who didn't have 17 previous complaints against him didn't spend 8 minutes kneeling on a black suspect's neck and the suspect didn't die of asphyxiation?

Got that Sid who doesn't live in U S.?
why didn't the Democrat chief of police ,mayor , governor , ag do something about it .

Apparently this so-called neck restraint tactic is quite commonly used by Minneapolis police. More than 200 incidents in the last five years, with 44 people rendered unconscious.

If true, there's some explaining to be done.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minneapolis-police-rendered-44-people-unconscious-neck-restraints-five-years-n1220416 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minneapolis-police-rendered-44-people-unconscious-neck-restraints-five-years-n1220416)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2020, 02:35:01 AM
Berlin Wall

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/05/31/germany-mural_wide-6d01dcdb2c093bc6f208598b1a7cf52f05f52203-s800-c85.jpg)

Apparently there are protests all around the world in response to this.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/31/866428272/george-floyd-reverberates-globally-thousands-protest-in-germany-u-k-canada (https://www.npr.org/2020/05/31/866428272/george-floyd-reverberates-globally-thousands-protest-in-germany-u-k-canada)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 02, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
When the Hong Kong authorities were gassing and hammering lumps out of the students and protestors there over a change in their laws, the UK, US and loads of other countries were very publically voicing their concerns over their treatment.

US do this to their own people and it's an internal matter.

The rioters and lotters are wrong and the police have every right to protect properties but the likes of the peaceful demonstrations outside the Whitehouse getting gassed off the streets was on the same level as what happened in Hong Kong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
When the Hong Kong authorities were gassing and hammering lumps out of the students and protestors there over a change in their laws, the UK, US and loads of other countries were very publically voicing their concerns over their treatment.

US do this to their own people and it's an internal matter.

The rioters and lotters are wrong and the police have every right to protect properties but the likes of the peaceful demonstrations outside the Whitehouse getting gassed off the streets was on the same level as what happened in Hong Kong.
It also begs the question: what do you do when it has been categorically shown that peaceful protest does not work?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
When the Hong Kong authorities were gassing and hammering lumps out of the students and protestors there over a change in their laws, the UK, US and loads of other countries were very publically voicing their concerns over their treatment.

US do this to their own people and it's an internal matter.

The rioters and lotters are wrong and the police have every right to protect properties but the likes of the peaceful demonstrations outside the Whitehouse getting gassed off the streets was on the same level as what happened in Hong Kong.

50 secret services agents were injured during a riot  and the president had to huddle in a secure bunker over the weekend due to the level of violence

In my opinion  the authorities displayed extraordinary restraint in how they dealt with these clowns

50 people don't get injured during a protest.....they get injured during a RIOT......big difference

Those protesters were directed to move and they didn't, so too bad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
50 secret services agents were injured during a riot  and the president had to huddle in a secure bunker over the weekend due to the level of violence

(Reputable) Link please.

Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
In my opinion  the authorities displayed extraordinary restraint in how they dealt with these clowns

You don't have a f**king clue and your avowing your Irish ancestry with that shite.

Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
50 people don't get injured during a protest.....they get injured during a RIOT......big difference

So was it the same in Bloody Sunday in Derry?


Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
Those protesters were directed to move and they didn't, so too bad

Next up, just shoot them eh? Stops them assembling somewhere else doesn't it you fascist p***k.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
50 secret services agents were injured during a riot  and the president had to huddle in a secure bunker over the weekend due to the level of violence

(Reputable) Link please.

Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
In my opinion  the authorities displayed extraordinary restraint in how they dealt with these clowns

You don't have a f**king clue and your avowing your Irish ancestry with that shite.

Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
50 people don't get injured during a protest.....they get injured during a RIOT......big difference

So was it the same in Bloody Sunday in Derry?


Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
Those protesters were directed to move and they didn't, so too bad

Next up, just shoot them eh? Stops them assembling somewhere else doesn't it you fascist p***k.

Bloody Sunday my hole

These are Antifa and Anarchists and should be batoned off the streets






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:33:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
Bloody Sunday my hole

What would you know about it you f**king idiot?

To you, white people have demonstrations, black people have riots.

Dickhead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:33:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
Bloody Sunday my hole

What would you know about it you f**king idiot?

To you, white people have demonstrations, black people have riots.

Dickhead.


Do you watch the news......many if not most of the rioters are white

Probably the most shared footage from Chicago.....not a black person in sight


https://t.co/DV8r8qHPyg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
These are Antifa and Anarchists and should be batoned off the streets

Do you even know what Antifa stands for you clown?

ANTI FASCISM.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:49:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:38:47 AM
Do you watch the news......many if not most of the rioters are white

At least not all of the US is as racist as you then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 02, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
These are Antifa and Anarchists and should be batoned off the streets

Do you even know what Antifa stands for you clown?

ANTI FASCISM.

It's the way you tell 'em!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: samuel maguire on June 02, 2020, 12:02:46 PM
Some of the replies on here would make you laugh. What the police officer done was wrong and he should and will be punished for it.
I can understand the protests, these people are well entitled to protest. HOWEVER, once the rioting and looting starts then these people deserve all they get. The USA is at breaking point, and the president needs to get some law and order back, and if this means shooting these idiots who are looting then so be it. These people are using the death of this young black man as an excuse to cause havoc and for their own personal gain. Although i do not always agree with Mr.Trump, i have to agree with him on this one. Its time to get these thugs under control before they burn these cities to the ground
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 12:08:08 PM
Quote from: samuel maguire on June 02, 2020, 12:02:46 PM
Some of the replies on here would make you laugh. What the police officer done was wrong and he should and will be punished for it.
I can understand the protests, these people are well entitled to protest. HOWEVER, once the rioting and looting starts then these people deserve all they get. The USA is at breaking point, and the president needs to get some law and order back, and if this means shooting these idiots who are looting then so be it. These people are using the death of this young black man as an excuse to cause havoc and for their own personal gain. Although i do not always agree with Mr.Trump, i have to agree with him on this one. Its time to get these thugs under control before they burn these cities to the ground

The best and quickest way to get it under control is to remove the reasons for the protest. Anyone with a shred of knowledge of the history of Ireland would realise that.


Root and branch investigation into police practice and proper prosecution of officers who have needlessly used excessive force. The court case of the officer in this instance should proceed with haste. That will do more to remove the righteous protestors off the streets, leaving any criminal elements exposed - which will then in itself largely force them to stop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 12:44:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
These are Antifa and Anarchists and should be batoned off the streets

Do you even know what Antifa stands for you clown?

ANTI FASCISM.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/religion/fire-set-at-historic-st-johns-church-during-protests-of-george-floyds-death/2020/06/01/4b5c4004-a3b6-11ea-b619-3f9133bbb482_story.html%3foutputType=amp


Ah yes.....setting fire to churches.....that's lovely behaviour altogether
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 12:49:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 12:44:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
These are Antifa and Anarchists and should be batoned off the streets

Do you even know what Antifa stands for you clown?

ANTI FASCISM.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/religion/fire-set-at-historic-st-johns-church-during-protests-of-george-floyds-death/2020/06/01/4b5c4004-a3b6-11ea-b619-3f9133bbb482_story.html%3foutputType=amp


Ah yes.....setting fire to churches.....that's lovely behaviour altogether

Hey strawman, were they parading anti fascist flags when lighting it?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on June 02, 2020, 12:52:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
When the Hong Kong authorities were gassing and hammering lumps out of the students and protestors there over a change in their laws, the UK, US and loads of other countries were very publically voicing their concerns over their treatment.

US do this to their own people and it's an internal matter.

The rioters and lotters are wrong and the police have every right to protect properties but the likes of the peaceful demonstrations outside the Whitehouse getting gassed off the streets was on the same level as what happened in Hong Kong.

50 secret services agents were injured during a riot  and the president had to huddle in a secure bunker over the weekend due to the level of violence

In my opinion  the authorities displayed extraordinary restraint in how they dealt with these clowns

50 people don't get injured during a protest.....they get injured during a RIOT......big difference

Those protesters were directed to move and they didn't, so too bad

Did he really have to hide? Did he?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on June 02, 2020, 12:53:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
50 secret services agents were injured during a riot  and the president had to huddle in a secure bunker over the weekend due to the level of violence

(Reputable) Link please.

Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
In my opinion  the authorities displayed extraordinary restraint in how they dealt with these clowns

You don't have a f**king clue and your avowing your Irish ancestry with that shite.

Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
50 people don't get injured during a protest.....they get injured during a RIOT......big difference

So was it the same in Bloody Sunday in Derry?


Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
Those protesters were directed to move and they didn't, so too bad

Next up, just shoot them eh? Stops them assembling somewhere else doesn't it you fascist p***k.

Bloody Sunday my hole

These are Antifa and Anarchists and should be batoned off the streets

And that reply just tells us everything we need to know about you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:05:39 PM
This "Whitey" character claims to be from Mayo, doesn't he?

Must be a descendant of Captain Boycott.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 01:07:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 12:49:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 12:44:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
These are Antifa and Anarchists and should be batoned off the streets

Do you even know what Antifa stands for you clown?

ANTI FASCISM.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/religion/fire-set-at-historic-st-johns-church-during-protests-of-george-floyds-death/2020/06/01/4b5c4004-a3b6-11ea-b619-3f9133bbb482_story.html%3foutputType=amp


Ah yes.....setting fire to churches.....that's lovely behaviour altogether

Hey strawman, were they parading anti fascist flags when lighting it?


LOL-so were the Nazis Socialists because they called themselves the National Socialists?

Are the DUP democratic?

Calling themselves Anti Facist means fvck all...".agree with us or we'll bash your skull in group" would be a better description
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 02, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
The Nazis were socialist BTW.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 01:27:53 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
The Nazis were socialist BTW.

Maybe Antifa should rename themselves AntiSo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:31:15 PM
Tear gassing and grenading priests so you can stand in front of their church with a bible because you're embarrassed that people noted that Hitler also hid in a bunker, just like you did.

But hey, "not fascism".

https://twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/1267644542762864641

1. Spoke w/Bishop Mariann Budde of the Washington Diocese.

On Trump's remarks: "Everything he has said is antithetical to the teachings of our traditions and what we stand for as a church."

ALSO: One of those driven out w/tear gas for the photo op was a *priest of the diocese.*

2. She read me a message sent to her by that priest, who was offering hospitality to protesters: "I was literally coughing bc of tear gas while helping ppl ... and the police drove us off ... w/riot gear and horses so that man could stand in front of our church with a Bible."

https://twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/1267654371032039430

ANOTHER harrowing account from ANOTHER priest working outside St. John's who says they were run off by tear gas, etc before Trump's photo op.

Ends with a defiant decree: "I am now a force to be reckoned with."


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZec69TXQAA-g3J?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZec69XWoAESRVt?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZec7T0XQAAjtFl?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:33:48 PM
The nut jobs are getting all confused in their messaging.

Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 01:07:59 PM
LOL-so were the Nazis Socialists because they called themselves the National Socialists?

Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
The Nazis were socialist BTW.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2020, 01:36:47 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
The Nazis were socialist BTW.

Yet they despised communists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:36:52 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZgWA5TXsAA4Tzm?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:44:21 PM
White supremacists pose as Antifa online, call for violence
Donie O&#39;Sullivan
By Donie O'Sullivan, CNN Business

Updated 0425 GMT (1225 HKT) June 2, 2020

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/antifa-fake-twitter-account/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_content=2020-06-02T12%3A42%3A01

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 01:48:51 PM
Haha.....so they wouldn't be smashing and rioting and killing if they weren't tricked into doing it by some clown on Twitter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 02, 2020, 01:57:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 02, 2020, 01:36:47 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
The Nazis were socialist BTW.

Yet they despised communists.

They despised the Bolsheviks because of the Jewish background of some of the Bolshevik leadership. After that it was basically rivalry between competitors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2020, 02:00:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
When the Hong Kong authorities were gassing and hammering lumps out of the students and protestors there over a change in their laws, the UK, US and loads of other countries were very publically voicing their concerns over their treatment.

US do this to their own people and it's an internal matter.

The rioters and lotters are wrong and the police have every right to protect properties but the likes of the peaceful demonstrations outside the Whitehouse getting gassed off the streets was on the same level as what happened in Hong Kong.
It also begs the question: what do you do when it has been categorically shown that peaceful protest does not work?

Fair question.

I doubt if anyone has an answer.

Trump and the conservative world had a collective fit over Kapernick. They just didn't want to hear about it.

There were plenty of peaceful demonstrations after various mass murders in the US over the past decade. They achieved just about zero. And when politicians talk about taking action after any one of these mass murders, we're told "now is not the time to be "politicizing" a tragedy".

I would say get out and vote, but the system is so gamed towards the GOP on a national level that the Democrats basically have to have a wave election victory with a large popular vote margin to get anywhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 02:00:52 PM
The racist's only response to far right agents provocateurs imploring for violence is "Ha ha".

Sure puts to lie his claims to not want violence.

Pond scum like him revel in violence. As long as he doesn't get hurt. I suppose when you never leave your bedroom it's easy to avoid it.

Little wonder that Trump lovers like "Whitey" love violence. Trump was up front that riots disaster and chaos were exactly what he wanted.

"You know what solves it? When the economy crashes, when the country goes to total hell, and everything is a disaster, you'll have riots to go back to where we used to be when we were great".

https://video.foxnews.com/v/3179604851001#sp=show-clips
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
Should get interesting in my town on Friday

Some well meaning people are organizing a BLM March

They are assembling and marching right by the house of the biggest Trump supporter in town

This guy doesn't give a blip.......I think the latte liberals might be in for a shock
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2020, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 01:57:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 02, 2020, 01:36:47 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
The Nazis were socialist BTW.

Yet they despised communists.

They despised the Bolsheviks because of the Jewish background of some of the Bolshevik leadership. After that it was basically rivalry between competitors.

I don't think anyone would try to deny the totalitarian similarities between the Hitler and Stalin regimes.

That doesn't make the founding principles of socialism/communism and fascism/Nazism the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2020, 02:07:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
Should get interesting in my town on Friday

Some well meaning people are organizing a BLM March

They are assembling and marching right by the house of the biggest Trump supporter in town

This guy doesn't give a blip.......I think the latte liberals might be in for a shock

Why?

What is this brave, determined soul going to do?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 02:09:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 02, 2020, 02:00:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
When the Hong Kong authorities were gassing and hammering lumps out of the students and protestors there over a change in their laws, the UK, US and loads of other countries were very publically voicing their concerns over their treatment.

US do this to their own people and it's an internal matter.

The rioters and lotters are wrong and the police have every right to protect properties but the likes of the peaceful demonstrations outside the Whitehouse getting gassed off the streets was on the same level as what happened in Hong Kong.
It also begs the question: what do you do when it has been categorically shown that peaceful protest does not work?

Fair question.

I doubt if anyone has an answer.

Trump and the conservative world had a collective fit over Kapernick. They just didn't want to hear about it.

There were plenty of peaceful demonstrations after various mass murders in the US over the past decade. They achieved just about zero. And when politicians talk about taking action after any one of these mass murders, we're told "now is not the time to be "politicizing" a tragedy".

I would say get out and vote, but the system is so gamed towards the GOP on a national level that the Democrats basically have to have a wave election victory with a large popular vote margin to get anywhere.
I've little doubt that the presidential election will be a fix and Trump will "win" again.

Watch HBO's documentary "Kill Chain - The Cyber War On America's Elections". It's terrifying.

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/12/17/how-new-voting-machines-could-hack-our-democracy/

https://harpers.org/archive/2012/11/how-to-rig-an-election/6/

Jennifer Cohn is worth a follow on Twitter on the issue.

https://twitter.com/jennycohn1?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 02, 2020, 02:07:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
Should get interesting in my town on Friday

Some well meaning people are organizing a BLM March

They are assembling and marching right by the house of the biggest Trump supporter in town

This guy doesn't give a blip.......I think the latte liberals might be in for a shock

Why?

What is this brave, determined soul going to do?

He's an old guy......they'd refer to him as a swamp yankee

I wouldn't be surprised if he's outside his house with a Trump sign yelling abuse at them as they pass by


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Swamp%2bYankee&amp=true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 02, 2020, 02:12:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
Should get interesting in my town on Friday

Some well meaning people are organizing a BLM March

They are assembling and marching right by the house of the biggest Trump supporter in town

This guy doesn't give a blip.......I think the latte liberals might be in for a shock
lots of towns here in northern California boarded up and police and fire departments on alert for looters . Here's the thing if gangs of these guys want to loot now and think they will get away with it what's stopping 20 car loads of them doing it in six months from now or a year . Unfortunately there is only one answer to that .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2020, 02:16:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 02, 2020, 02:07:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
Should get interesting in my town on Friday

Some well meaning people are organizing a BLM March

They are assembling and marching right by the house of the biggest Trump supporter in town

This guy doesn't give a blip.......I think the latte liberals might be in for a shock

Why?

What is this brave, determined soul going to do?

He's an old guy......they'd refer to him as a swamp yankee

I wouldn't be surprised if he's outside his house with a Trump sign yelling abuse at them as they pass by


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Swamp%2bYankee&amp=true

I hadn't heard of that term.

I've a few older loudmouths around me where I live too, but I don't get into political stuff with neighbours. Would rather keeps thing polite, civil and friendly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 06:46:37 PM
Quote from: samuel maguire on June 02, 2020, 12:02:46 PM
Some of the replies on here would make you laugh. What the police officer done was wrong and he should and will be punished for it.
I can understand the protests, these people are well entitled to protest. HOWEVER, once the rioting and looting starts then these people deserve all they get. The USA is at breaking point, and the president needs to get some law and order back, and if this means shooting these idiots who are looting then so be it. These people are using the death of this young black man as an excuse to cause havoc and for their own personal gain. Although i do not always agree with Mr.Trump, i have to agree with him on this one. Its time to get these thugs under control before they burn these cities to the ground

Some of the replies on here would make you laugh. What the B Specials, RUC, and Stormont regime  done was wrong and they should and will be punished for it. I can understand the protests, these people are well entitled to protest. HOWEVER, once the rioting and looting starts then these people deserve all they get. Northern Ireland was at breaking point, and the Prime Minister needed to get some law and order back, and if this means shooting these idiots who are rioting then so be it. These people were using injustice and discrimination as an excuse to cause havoc and for their own personal gain. Although i do not always agree with Brian Faulkner, i have to agree with him on this one. It was time to get these thugs under control before they burned these cities to the ground
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 06:47:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:05:39 PM
This "Whitey" character claims to be from Mayo, doesn't he?

Must be a descendant of Captain Boycott.

That'd be ironic, now that I'm boycotting him. I suggest everyone else do the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 06:47:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:05:39 PM
This "Whitey" character claims to be from Mayo, doesn't he?

Must be a descendant of Captain Boycott.

That'd be ironic, now that I'm boycotting him. I suggest everyone else do the same.
I would strongly suggest mods ban him from the thread. He seems to have spent every waking hour of the last four years on it, and hasn't produced a single post of good faith or substance in that time. I'm not sure how evidence of somebody being a troll the mods need, but they had enough years ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 08:10:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 06:47:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:05:39 PM
This "Whitey" character claims to be from Mayo, doesn't he?

Must be a descendant of Captain Boycott.

That'd be ironic, now that I'm boycotting him. I suggest everyone else do the same.
I would strongly suggest mods ban him from the thread. He seems to have spent every waking hour of the last four years on it, and hasn't produced a single post of good faith or substance in that time. I'm not sure how evidence of somebody being a troll the mods need, but they had enough years ago.

How  "National Socialist" of you.....trying to ban people who don't agree with you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
Sure lets ban everyone that doesnt agree with your own opinion.

Its a discussion board and rightly or wrongly Whitey is entitles to his own opinion & thoughts.

Censorship indeed....especially at times like this  :-X :-X
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 02, 2020, 09:08:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 02, 2020, 08:10:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 06:47:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:05:39 PM
This "Whitey" character claims to be from Mayo, doesn't he?

Must be a descendant of Captain Boycott.

That'd be ironic, now that I'm boycotting him. I suggest everyone else do the same.
I would strongly suggest mods ban him from the thread. He seems to have spent every waking hour of the last four years on it, and hasn't produced a single post of good faith or substance in that time. I'm not sure how evidence of somebody being a troll the mods need, but they had enough years ago.

How  "National Socialist" of you.....trying to ban people who don't agree with you
if he was on the street he'd punch you in the back of the head with his 3  Antifa  mates behind him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on June 02, 2020, 09:20:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 06:47:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:05:39 PM
This "Whitey" character claims to be from Mayo, doesn't he?

Must be a descendant of Captain Boycott.

That'd be ironic, now that I'm boycotting him. I suggest everyone else do the same.
I would strongly suggest mods ban him from the thread. He seems to have spent every waking hour of the last four years on it, and hasn't produced a single post of good faith or substance in that time. I'm not sure how evidence of somebody being a troll the mods need, but they had enough years ago.

I'd agree with virtually zero of what whitey posts on this thread but you're way off here sid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
Sure lets ban everyone that doesnt agree with your own opinion.

Its a discussion board and rightly or wrongly Whitey is entitles to his own opinion & thoughts.

Censorship indeed....especially at times like this  :-X :-X

When are people going to get it into their heads that it's not the disagreement that counts? I can disagree with people about minor points or about football or listen to well-constructed arguments, and there's a chance a well put together post might change my mind. The problem with the likes of Whitey is they have no intention of raising the standard of debate. Refute one of their points and they just shift the goalposts, change the subject, and a few posts later there they are making the same oft-rebutted point again. People like that add nothing of value to the board. They're just here to wind up and troll, which happens to be a violation of this board's rules. If you don't like the rules then you're welcome to leave, but rules are rules and Whitey is in clear violation of them. If he were banned from here it might do him some good. He might have to find a more productive hobby, like flower-arranging or something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 02, 2020, 10:12:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
Sure lets ban everyone that doesnt agree with your own opinion.

Its a discussion board and rightly or wrongly Whitey is entitles to his own opinion & thoughts.

Censorship indeed....especially at times like this  :-X :-X

When are people going to get it into their heads that it's not the disagreement that counts? I can disagree with people about minor points or about football or listen to well-constructed arguments, and there's a chance a well put together post might change my mind. The problem with the likes of Whitey is they have no intention of raising the standard of debate. Refute one of their points and they just shift the goalposts, change the subject, and a few posts later there they are making the same oft-rebutted point again. People like that add nothing of value to the board. They're just here to wind up and troll, which happens to be a violation of this board's rules. If you don't like the rules then you're welcome to leave, but rules are rules and Whitey is in clear violation of them. If he were banned from here it might do him some good. He might have to find a more productive hobby, like flower-arranging or something.

Eamonn you need to look at your own standard of discussion, you come out with a lot of rhetoric and then revert to ad hominen, frequently a point scoring exercise. Whitey is marginally better than yourself TBF, which is no great compliment. However he does serve an important purpose on this thread which is give dissenting views and I do get the impression that he lives in the real world and form his positions from it and not the realms that the media would like to see the world thru. TBH its disappointing that both of you mess as I know that you both can raise some great points.

This thread needs better policing by the mods with a few warnings dished out now and then to keep things in line. The bot style posters who have no interested in learning or thrashing things should be given a "cool off" period
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 10:20:15 PM
So for the self righteous among you who invoked the memory of the lives lost in Derry on Bloody Sunday to attack me, hang your heads in shame in sullying their reputations

Big riot in Providence last night.......started hours after a peaceful BLM protest ended

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.providencejournal.com/news/20200602/65-arrested-8-to-10-police-injured-in-providence-riot%3ftemplate=ampart

"The actions early Tuesday morning were not organized by Black Lives Matter Rhode Island. A flier of unknown origin reading "Providence Looting 12:00 AM Tonight! (Expletive) The Police" had circulated on social media the previous day.

Manni said the gathering was organized by an "anti-government" group of "anarchists" with a left-leaning mindset similar to Antifa. He declined to say whether the group had a name but said "they have an ideology," which he said was centered around "destruction."

You probably won't read about this in The NY Times or hear about it on NPR
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 10:21:37 PM
My conscience is clear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
Sure lets ban everyone that doesnt agree with your own opinion.

Its a discussion board and rightly or wrongly Whitey is entitles to his own opinion & thoughts.

Censorship indeed....especially at times like this  :-X :-X
You've created a straw man there.

I'm all for diversity of opinion.

But "Whitey" isn't here to debate, or even offer opinion, at least any sort of considered opinion. He's here to troll and derail the thread, and nothing else. That's all he's ever been here to do, which doesn't say much for his life.

I mean there's a reason Gemma O'Doherty doesn't get invited onto any broadcast media.

It should be the same idea as regards online.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 02, 2020, 10:55:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
Sure lets ban everyone that doesnt agree with your own opinion.

Its a discussion board and rightly or wrongly Whitey is entitles to his own opinion & thoughts.

Censorship indeed....especially at times like this  :-X :-X
You've created a straw man there.

I'm all for diversity of opinion.

But "Whitey" isn't here to debate, or even offer opinion, at least any sort of considered opinion. He's here to troll and derail the thread, and nothing else. That's all he's ever been here to do, which doesn't say much for his life.

I mean there's a reason Gemma O'Doherty doesn't get invited onto any broadcast media.

It should be the same idea as regards online.

No Sid

I absolutely am not a troll. I believe 99.99 % of what I post (I enjoy getting a rise with the other .01% of the time)

Why I see  from posters like yourself on here are simply a regurgitation if left wing talking points.

If you actually lived here for any length of time and heard first hand from real people about what's going on on the ground in law enforcement, healthcare or any other number of topics, your positions might actually evolve evolve (as have mine on a myriad of topics)

No....instead you take the easy way out and call me a racist and try to get me banned for challenging you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:16:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
Sure lets ban everyone that doesnt agree with your own opinion.

Its a discussion board and rightly or wrongly Whitey is entitles to his own opinion & thoughts.

Censorship indeed....especially at times like this  :-X :-X
You've created a straw man there.

I'm all for diversity of opinion.

But "Whitey" isn't here to debate, or even offer opinion, at least any sort of considered opinion. He's here to troll and derail the thread, and nothing else. That's all he's ever been here to do, which doesn't say much for his life.

I mean there's a reason Gemma O'Doherty doesn't get invited onto any broadcast media.

It should be the same idea as regards online.

Hear bloody hear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Seems like Trump's lash-out-at-the-media-and-shoot-the-messenger strategy is paying off.

But if Biden does get in somehow, I could see him serving one term and then someone like Newsom having a go.

I wouldn't write Biden off yet. It's a long way to November and a lot of dead bodies are going to be piled up between now and then thanks to Donald. A lot will depend on how successful he is in shifting blame away from himself. He'll take credit for anything that goes right and deflect blame for anything that goes wrong, which will play well with the religious crowd who are used to doing that sort of thing with God. I don't know if it'll be enough with swing voters though.
Well well well. Trump starting to get it tight again. Maybe his supporters are dropping dead with the virus.

2020 winner:
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Wheisht! Trump getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Well well well. Now it's even. Trump's odds of reelection are in freefall. As the covid death toll mounts and the riots spread, I expect to see him get even more desperate. Expect more scapegoating of China, Mexico, immigrants, and people of colour in the next few months. That includes you, Whitey. I assume you're an immigrant. Don't for one minute think he has your back.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10

Joe seems to be the favourite for the first time. Trump's odds are definitely drifting and Biden's are shortening. Still a bit close for my liking though.
2020 winner:
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 02, 2020, 11:42:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:16:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
Sure lets ban everyone that doesnt agree with your own opinion.

Its a discussion board and rightly or wrongly Whitey is entitles to his own opinion & thoughts.

Censorship indeed....especially at times like this  :-X :-X
You've created a straw man there.

I'm all for diversity of opinion.

But "Whitey" isn't here to debate, or even offer opinion, at least any sort of considered opinion. He's here to troll and derail the thread, and nothing else. That's all he's ever been here to do, which doesn't say much for his life.

I mean there's a reason Gemma O'Doherty doesn't get invited onto any broadcast media.

It should be the same idea as regards online.

Hear bloody hear.
who is Gemma o"Doherty
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2020, 11:57:59 PM
NYC has a curfew starting 8pm tonight. Hopefully it works. Those f**kers really went to town last night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 12:01:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 02, 2020, 11:57:59 PM
NYC has a curfew starting 8pm tonight. Hopefully it works. Those f**kers really went to town last night.
one here tonight/tomorrow  in San Francisco suburban  8-30 let's see what happens.
Is the mayor and police derelict of duty or too many rioters to handle in nyc ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 12:24:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 12:01:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 02, 2020, 11:57:59 PM
NYC has a curfew starting 8pm tonight. Hopefully it works. Those f**kers really went to town last night.
one here tonight/tomorrow  in San Francisco suburban  8-30 let's see what happens.
Is the mayor and police derelict of duty or too many rioters to handle in nyc ?

Don't know.

But Cuomo laid into both today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 03, 2020, 12:52:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 12:24:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 12:01:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 02, 2020, 11:57:59 PM
NYC has a curfew starting 8pm tonight. Hopefully it works. Those f**kers really went to town last night.
one here tonight/tomorrow  in San Francisco suburban  8-30 let's see what happens.
Is the mayor and police derelict of duty or too many rioters to handle in nyc ?

Don't know.

But Cuomo laid into both today.
Cuomo's Trump like outburst didn't impress me as being of leadership quality.

It's evidently a different group of people who are doing the looting, different to the groups who are on the protests.
Why do you think this particular group engage in looting?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 01:25:46 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2020, 12:52:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 12:24:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 12:01:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 02, 2020, 11:57:59 PM
NYC has a curfew starting 8pm tonight. Hopefully it works. Those f**kers really went to town last night.
one here tonight/tomorrow  in San Francisco suburban  8-30 let's see what happens.
Is the mayor and police derelict of duty or too many rioters to handle in nyc ?

Don't know.

But Cuomo laid into both today.
Cuomo's Trump like outburst didn't impress me as being of leadership quality.

It's evidently a different group of people who are doing the looting, different to the groups who are on the protests.
Why do you think this particular group engage in looting?

Haven't checked the latest news, but suggestions have been that its a combination of anarchists out to cause mayhem, and agent provocateurs seeking to discredit or foment trouble. I'm sure there's a good helping of locals in there too out for a free case of beer or whatever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
The looters are an absolute disgrace and have no interest in the peaceful protests.

In fact the peaceful protesters are being undermined by them.

Was Trump right to say shoot the looters or how do you actually control them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 03, 2020, 08:09:16 AM
I thought everything was Antifa's fault though???

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/

The FBI are probably Antifa sympathisers that's it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
The looters are an absolute disgrace and have no interest in the peaceful protests.

In fact the peaceful protesters are being undermined by them.

Was Trump right to say shoot the looters or how do you actually control them?

Trump is pretty much like the Tories/ Dup, whatever he says pretty much the opposite is better option.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
The looters are an absolute disgrace and have no interest in the peaceful protests.

In fact the peaceful protesters are being undermined by them.

Was Trump right to say shoot the looters or how do you actually control them?

Trump is pretty much like the Tories/ Dup, whatever he says pretty much the opposite is better option.

And pretty much like the Tories/DUP he will get voted in again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
The looters are an absolute disgrace and have no interest in the peaceful protests.

In fact the peaceful protesters are being undermined by them.

Was Trump right to say shoot the looters or how do you actually control them?

Trump is pretty much like the Tories/ Dup, whatever he says pretty much the opposite is better option.

And pretty much like the Tories/DUP he will get voted in again.

Which probably says more about the US education system than anything.
Also says a lot about those more wealthy Americans who vote for these people knowing fine well what they represent, but waiting on that tax break to keep them sweet. The American Dream after all and I include a large swathe of wealthy Black Americans who voted for him. I wonder how they feel about their choice now, or was that quick boom and increase in the bank accounts worth it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
The looters are an absolute disgrace and have no interest in the peaceful protests.

In fact the peaceful protesters are being undermined by them.

Was Trump right to say shoot the looters or how do you actually control them?

Trump is pretty much like the Tories/ Dup, whatever he says pretty much the opposite is better option.

And pretty much like the Tories/DUP he will get voted in again.

Which probably says more about the US education system than anything.
Also says a lot about those more wealthy Americans who vote for these people knowing fine well what they represent, but waiting on that tax break to keep them sweet. The American Dream after all and I include a large swathe of wealthy Black Americans who voted for him. I wonder how they feel about their choice now, or was that quick boom and increase in the bank accounts worth it.

I read a poll (obviously taken with a pinch of salt) that 79% want the National Guard sent in to sort the looters - if Trump does do that guess who comes up smelling of roses?

Social media, while pulling Trump to pieces over this, is not an accurate gauge of public opinion as we found out in a few recent votes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 09:49:04 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
The looters are an absolute disgrace and have no interest in the peaceful protests.

In fact the peaceful protesters are being undermined by them.

Was Trump right to say shoot the looters or how do you actually control them?

Trump is pretty much like the Tories/ Dup, whatever he says pretty much the opposite is better option.

And pretty much like the Tories/DUP he will get voted in again.

Which probably says more about the US education system than anything.
Also says a lot about those more wealthy Americans who vote for these people knowing fine well what they represent, but waiting on that tax break to keep them sweet. The American Dream after all and I include a large swathe of wealthy Black Americans who voted for him. I wonder how they feel about their choice now, or was that quick boom and increase in the bank accounts worth it.

I read a poll (obviously taken with a pinch of salt) that 79% want the National Guard sent in to sort the looters - if Trump does do that guess who comes up smelling of roses?

Social media, while pulling Trump to pieces over this, is not an accurate gauge of public opinion as we found out in a few recent votes

Yeah taking social media out of it because it becomes a cesspit at times, Trump and now the Tories have the same playbook. Blame everything on the MSM its all their fault they are lefties they are lying to you and his supporters and people who dont know any better lap it up. So they can pretty much do anything and have done and then turn it on the MSM (Cummings - #Scummedia).

It's a complete shit show and probably when these riots result in a massive Covid-19 spike Trump will climb out from below it and blame the protestors and MSM for the whole Pandemic mess up (which he created) and walk away scott free.

Oh what times we live in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 10:48:57 AM
Just watched a video of looters in a what looked like a Nike store, dirty scumbags
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 11:48:52 AM
I see the GOP in Iowa have finally tossed out Steve King. After nine terms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
The looters are an absolute disgrace and have no interest in the peaceful protests.

In fact the peaceful protesters are being undermined by them.

Was Trump right to say shoot the looters or how do you actually control them?

Trump is pretty much like the Tories/ Dup, whatever he says pretty much the opposite is better option.

And pretty much like the Tories/DUP he will get voted in again.

Which probably says more about the US education system than anything.
Also says a lot about those more wealthy Americans who vote for these people knowing fine well what they represent, but waiting on that tax break to keep them sweet. The American Dream after all and I include a large swathe of wealthy Black Americans who voted for him. I wonder how they feel about their choice now, or was that quick boom and increase in the bank accounts worth it.

I read a poll (obviously taken with a pinch of salt) that 79% want the National Guard sent in to sort the looters - if Trump does do that guess who comes up smelling of roses?

Social media, while pulling Trump to pieces over this, is not an accurate gauge of public opinion as we found out in a few recent votes
Depends what you mean by social media, doesn't, it? Just because you maay not follow the far right onlinee doesn't mean it is not very heavily represented. It is.

I agree that social media can be an inaccurate guide - I mean if you'd followed Irish social media before the 8th Amendment referendum, and I did, you'd have been forgiven for expecting the No side to win, because they were overrpresented online in comparison to real support.

You'd be forgiven for thinking the far right in Ireland was polling at least 20-25%, such is their online presence. They're nowhere near that.

Trump supporting social media is mind numbingly stupid and crazy and made up mainly of circle jerking edglelords and bots. So any real person with a brain, especially in Ireland, tends not to follow such people or accounts.

That doeesn't mean Trump is under represented online. My strong feeling is that Trump and the far right are heavily overrpresented online. They have made online their key battleground in spreading fear and racist hatred. There is heavy astro-turfing from bots to give the impression that Trump has overwhelming support.

62 million people voted for Trump. There are 330 million people in the US. Trump supporters are a minority. They were a minority last time and they'll be a minority again this time, and very likely a minority of actual voters.

Of course whether the votes of the actual voters are accurately registered is another thing entirely. There's every reason to think they won't be, because the voting systems in many US states have been designed to be hackable.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
The looters are an absolute disgrace and have no interest in the peaceful protests.

In fact the peaceful protesters are being undermined by them.

Was Trump right to say shoot the looters or how do you actually control them?

Trump is pretty much like the Tories/ Dup, whatever he says pretty much the opposite is better option.

And pretty much like the Tories/DUP he will get voted in again.

Which probably says more about the US education system than anything.
Also says a lot about those more wealthy Americans who vote for these people knowing fine well what they represent, but waiting on that tax break to keep them sweet. The American Dream after all and I include a large swathe of wealthy Black Americans who voted for him. I wonder how they feel about their choice now, or was that quick boom and increase in the bank accounts worth it.

I read a poll (obviously taken with a pinch of salt) that 79% want the National Guard sent in to sort the looters - if Trump does do that guess who comes up smelling of roses?

Social media, while pulling Trump to pieces over this, is not an accurate gauge of public opinion as we found out in a few recent votes
Depends what you mean by social media, doesn't, it? Just because you maay not follow the far right onlinee doesn't mean it is not very heavily represented. It is.

I agree that social media can be an inaccurate guide - I mean if you'd followed Irish social media before the 8th Amendment referendum, and I did, you'd have been forgiven for expecting the No side to win, because they were overrpresented online in comparison to real support.

You'd be forgiven for thinking the far right in Ireland was polling at least 20-25%, such is their online presence. They're nowhere near that.

Trump supporting social media is mind numbingly stupid and crazy and made up mainly of circle jerking edglelords and bots. So any real person with a brain, especially in Ireland, tends not to follow such people or accounts.

That doeesn't mean Trump is under represented online. My strong feeling is that Trump and the far right are heavily overrpresented online. They have made online their key battleground in spreading fear and racist hatred. There is heavy astro-turfing from bots to give the impression that Trump has overwhelming support.

62 million people voted for Trump. There are 330 million people in the US. Trump supporters are a minority. They were a minority last time and they'll be a minority again this time, and very likely a minority of actual voters.

Of course whether the votes of the actual voters are accurately registered is another thing entirely. There's every reason to think they won't be, because the voting systems in many US states have been designed to be hackable.

You are forgetting the silent majority in the US.

Those that abhor the violence but are too afraid to come out and say so for fear of reprisals.

I fear the violent looters and violent protestors will ensure people give Trump another term.

If protests had been peaceful, Trump (and elements of the police) would have been shown up for what they are and Joe would have had an easy ride to the WH.

It certainly wont be easy now given the violence
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Sid, Obama got 66 M votes out of 330 M people

LOL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 12:35:36 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 03, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
The looters are an absolute disgrace and have no interest in the peaceful protests.

In fact the peaceful protesters are being undermined by them.

Was Trump right to say shoot the looters or how do you actually control them?

Trump is pretty much like the Tories/ Dup, whatever he says pretty much the opposite is better option.

And pretty much like the Tories/DUP he will get voted in again.

Which probably says more about the US education system than anything.
Also says a lot about those more wealthy Americans who vote for these people knowing fine well what they represent, but waiting on that tax break to keep them sweet. The American Dream after all and I include a large swathe of wealthy Black Americans who voted for him. I wonder how they feel about their choice now, or was that quick boom and increase in the bank accounts worth it.

I read a poll (obviously taken with a pinch of salt) that 79% want the National Guard sent in to sort the looters - if Trump does do that guess who comes up smelling of roses?

Social media, while pulling Trump to pieces over this, is not an accurate gauge of public opinion as we found out in a few recent votes
Depends what you mean by social media, doesn't, it? Just because you maay not follow the far right onlinee doesn't mean it is not very heavily represented. It is.

I agree that social media can be an inaccurate guide - I mean if you'd followed Irish social media before the 8th Amendment referendum, and I did, you'd have been forgiven for expecting the No side to win, because they were overrpresented online in comparison to real support.

You'd be forgiven for thinking the far right in Ireland was polling at least 20-25%, such is their online presence. They're nowhere near that.

Trump supporting social media is mind numbingly stupid and crazy and made up mainly of circle jerking edglelords and bots. So any real person with a brain, especially in Ireland, tends not to follow such people or accounts.

That doeesn't mean Trump is under represented online. My strong feeling is that Trump and the far right are heavily overrpresented online. They have made online their key battleground in spreading fear and racist hatred. There is heavy astro-turfing from bots to give the impression that Trump has overwhelming support.

62 million people voted for Trump. There are 330 million people in the US. Trump supporters are a minority. They were a minority last time and they'll be a minority again this time, and very likely a minority of actual voters.

Of course whether the votes of the actual voters are accurately registered is another thing entirely. There's every reason to think they won't be, because the voting systems in many US states have been designed to be hackable.

You are forgetting the silent majority in the US.

Those that abhor the violence but are too afraid to come out and say so for fear of reprisals.

I fear the violent looters and violent protestors will ensure people give Trump another term.

If protests had been peaceful, Trump (and elements of the police) would have been shown up for what they are and Joe would have had an easy ride to the WH.

It certainly wont be easy now given the violence
What does "the violence" refer to in your post? Does it refer to police violence and violence by far right agent provocateurs?

The "silent majority"? Very few people support looting. Who supports looting except looters? About 99% of the opulation do not support looting.

What does exist is a large section of white America which supports police brutality against black people.

It's not a majority in America but likely a heavy majority of Trump's support.

If you think such people are silent, you're very wrong. These people are louder than anybody else in society.

One thing racist Trump supporters are not is silent.

Just have a look at the poster above this one for evidence.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 01:35:41 PM

What does exist is a large section of white America which supports police brutality against black people.
Have you evidence of this large section or just throwing it out there?

It's not a majority in America but likely a heavy majority of Trump's support.

If you think such people are silent, you're very wrong. These people are louder than anybody else in society.
The silent majority are those people who wont say they will vote Trump but will go to the Ballot box and select him and with the violent protestors causing carnage they will come out in their droves

One thing racist Trump supporters are not is silent.
It wont just be racists voting for him after this

Just have a look at the poster above this one for evidence.
Doesnt even warrant a comment Sid....no need
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 02:09:50 PM

From WSJ

The Myth of Systemic Police Racism
Hold officers accountable who use excessive force. But there's no evidence of widespread racial bias.
By Heather Mac Donald
June 2, 2020 1:44 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
1,340

A demonstrator kneels before a police line in Washington, May 31.
PHOTO: SAMUEL CORUM/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES
George Floyd's death in Minneapolis has revived the Obama-era narrative that law enforcement is endemically racist. On Friday, Barack Obama tweeted that for millions of black Americans, being treated differently by the criminal justice system on account of race is "tragically, painfully, maddeningly 'normal.' " Mr. Obama called on the police and the public to create a "new normal," in which bigotry no longer "infects our institutions and our hearts."

Joe Biden released a video the same day in which he asserted that all African-Americans fear for their safety from "bad police" and black children must be instructed to tolerate police abuse just so they can "make it home." That echoed a claim Mr. Obama made after the ambush murder of five Dallas officers in July 2016. During their memorial service, the president said African-American parents were right to fear that their children may be killed by police officers whenever they go outside.

Rioters Torch the Rule of Law

00:00 / 23:14
SUBSCRIBE
Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz denounced the "stain . . . of fundamental, institutional racism" on law enforcement during a Friday press conference. He claimed blacks were right to dismiss promises of police reform as empty verbiage.


This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd's arrest, it isn't representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines "unarmed" broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.


On Memorial Day weekend in Chicago alone, 10 African-Americans were killed in drive-by shootings. Such routine violence has continued—a 72-year-old Chicago man shot in the face on May 29 by a gunman who fired about a dozen shots into a residence; two 19-year-old women on the South Side shot to death as they sat in a parked car a few hours earlier; a 16-year-old boy fatally stabbed with his own knife that same day. This past weekend, 80 Chicagoans were shot in drive-by shootings, 21 fatally, the victims overwhelmingly black. Police shootings are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.

The latest in a series of studies undercutting the claim of systemic police bias was published in August 2019 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that the more frequently officers encounter violent suspects from any given racial group, the greater the chance that a member of that group will be fatally shot by a police officer. There is "no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police," they concluded.

A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.

The false narrative of systemic police bias resulted in targeted killings of officers during the Obama presidency. The pattern may be repeating itself. Officers are being assaulted and shot at while they try to arrest gun suspects or respond to the growing riots. Police precincts and courthouses have been destroyed with impunity, which will encourage more civilization-destroying violence. If the Ferguson effect of officers backing off law enforcement in minority neighborhoods is reborn as the Minneapolis effect, the thousands of law-abiding African-Americans who depend on the police for basic safety will once again be the victims.


The Minneapolis officers who arrested George Floyd must be held accountable for their excessive use of force and callous indifference to his distress. Police training needs to double down on de-escalation tactics. But Floyd's death should not undermine the legitimacy of American law enforcement, without which we will continue on a path toward chaos.

Ms. Mac Donald is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and the author of "The War on Cops," (Encounter Books, 2016). :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 02:26:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 01:35:41 PM

What does exist is a large section of white America which supports police brutality against black people.
Have you evidence of this large section or just throwing it out there?
It's not a majority in America but likely a heavy majority of Trump's support.


If you think such people are silent, you're very wrong. These people are louder than anybody else in society.
The silent majority are those people who wont say they will vote Trump but will go to the Ballot box and select him and with the violent protestors causing carnage they will come out in their droves

One thing racist Trump supporters are not is silent.
It wont just be racists voting for him after this

Just have a look at the poster above this one for evidence.
Doesnt even warrant a comment Sid....no need
62 million people voted for a fascist. Anybody with a cursory knowledge of history could see that Trump was a fascist right from the start.

But you think his support didn't see that. They did. Boy did they see it, and they liked it , they loved it. That's why they're so cult like in their support for him.

Violence against minorities is a key part of fascism. Trump could likely not have won without there having been a black president.

In the same way the so called "reconstruction" era and Jim Crow were a racist white backlash to the ending of slavery, and the Republican Southern Strategy was a backlash agaainst the Civil Rights movement, Trump is a backlash against a black president.

Trump explicitly based his appeal on racism. He denied that Obama was even American. He exploited economic hardship among whites, which incidentally Republicans are heavily responsible for due to their insane voodoo economics, and blamed black America and ethnic minority America for it. He told whites that ethnic minorities were the reason for their economic hardship and he told white America that minority rights somehow constituted a threat to the rights of white Americans.

This is literally what Hitler did when he vilified the Jews.

The twisting of reality from so much of white America, including the overwhelmingly white media, especially Republican media, to turn reality on its head and make the "story" about looting rather than police death squads and brutality is proof of the deep discomfort much of white America has taken at the truth being pointed out to them - not discomfort at the reality, which it is comfortable with - but discomfort at the reality being highlighted.

If you vote for somebody who uses racism as their central point of appeal, you're a racist, it's as simple as that. There's no need to be politically correct about this, as Trump supporters want. Trump supporters are racists. Iff you vote for a racist, fascist demagogue who based his appeal around naked racism, well guess what, you're a dirty f**king racist.

Your "silent majority" theory is wrong. The vast majority of Trump's support is up front about their support for him. Only a very small minority of people who will vote for Trump will be secret about their support for him.

You clearly think Trump will get more legitimate votes in the election than Biden. There's no evidence and no reason to suggest that he will. He lost the popular vote by 2.86 million last time.

I happen to think Trump will "win", but not for the same reasons you do. I think he'll "win" because I expect votes to be falsified on a large scale in addition to the already widespread racist voter suppression which Republicans rely on to have any chance. And I think there's plenty of good reason to suggest vote falsification. Look at the last Georgia Governor election. Democracy didn't just fail, it was hijacked.

Your theory that large amounts of whites will not admit to voting Trump, but will do so, is an admission of the racist nature of white America. It is a statement that whites class looting as a bigger issue than police brutality against blacks, which is an exponentially bigger issue.

Your statement about "violent protestors" wrongly brands all protestors as illegitimate, it makes no attempt to deal with the reality that right-wing agent provocateurs are hijacking protests to commit violence with the specific aim of delegitimising righteous and just black protest, and it whitewashes police brutality and executions by omission of mention.

The poster above me, "whitey", has a long and consistent record of racist dog whistling and trolling on this forum. And that should be continually pointed out. Again, there's no need to be politically correct in order to not offend people here. "Whitey" is a racist, and that should be continually be pointed out.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 03, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Whitey, why are you comparing Police Brutality to Gang related shootings?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 02:43:37 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 03, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Whitey, why are you comparing Police Brutality to Gang related shootings?
It's very important for right-wing nut jobs to try and stop discussion of actual pressing issues, by using deflection.

They do this because they have made the decision to be brainwashed into being right-wing culture warriors who have no progressive vision whatsoever for society, and instead devote their time to mindlessly campaigning for the upholding of indefensible injustice and white supremacism.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 02:43:37 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 03, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Whitey, why are you comparing Police Brutality to Gang related shootings?
It's very important for right-wing nut jobs to try and stop discussion of actual pressing issues, by using deflection.

They do this because they have made the decision to be brainwashed into being right-wing culture warriors who have no progressive vision whatsoever for society, and instead devote their time to mindlessly campaigning for the upholding of indefensible injustice and white supremacism.

Editorial Page of WSJ hardly right wing but jobs but keep believing what CNN is telling you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 02:26:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 01:35:41 PM

What does exist is a large section of white America which supports police brutality against black people.
Have you evidence of this large section or just throwing it out there?
It's not a majority in America but likely a heavy majority of Trump's support.


If you think such people are silent, you're very wrong. These people are louder than anybody else in society.
The silent majority are those people who wont say they will vote Trump but will go to the Ballot box and select him and with the violent protestors causing carnage they will come out in their droves

One thing racist Trump supporters are not is silent.
It wont just be racists voting for him after this

Just have a look at the poster above this one for evidence.
Doesnt even warrant a comment Sid....no need
62 million people voted for a fascist. Anybody with a cursory knowledge of history could see that Trump was a fascist right from the start.

But you think his support didn't see that. They did. Boy did they see it, and they liked it , they loved it. That's why they're so cult like in their support for him.

Violence against minorities is a key part of fascism. Trump could likely not have won without there having been a black president.

In the same way the so called "reconstruction" era and Jim Crow were a racist white backlash to the ending of slavery, and the Republican Southern Strategy was a backlash agaainst the Civil Rights movement, Trump is a backlash against a black president.

Trump explicitly based his appeal on racism. He denied that Obama was even American. He exploited economic hardship among whites, which incidentally Republicans are heavily responsible for due to their insane voodoo economics, and blamed black America and ethnic minority America for it. He told whites that ethnic minorities were the reason for their economic hardship and he told white America that minority rights somehow constituted a threat to the rights of white Americans.

This is literally what Hitler did when he vilified the Jews.

The twisting of reality from so much of white America, including the overwhelmingly white media, especially Republican media, to turn reality on its head and make the "story" about looting rather than police death squads and brutality is proof of the deep discomfort much of white America has taken at the truth being pointed out to them - not discomfort at the reality, which it is comfortable with - but discomfort at the reality being highlighted.

If you vote for somebody who uses racism as their central point of appeal, you're a racist, it's as simple as that. There's no need to be politically correct about this, as Trump supporters want. Trump supporters are racists. Iff you vote for a racist, fascist demagogue who based his appeal around naked racism, well guess what, you're a dirty f**king racist.

Your "silent majority" theory is wrong. The vast majority of Trump's support is up front about their support for him. Only a very small minority of people who will vote for Trump will be secret about their support for him.

You clearly think Trump will get more legitimate votes in the election than Biden. There's no evidence and no reason to suggest that he will. He lost the popular vote by 2.86 million last time.

I happen to think Trump will "win", but not for the same reasons you do. I think he'll "win" because I expect votes to be falsified on a large scale in addition to the already widespread racist voter suppression which Republicans rely on to have any chance. And I think there's plenty of good reason to suggest vote falsification. Look at the last Georgia Governor election. Democracy didn't just fail, it was hijacked.

Your theory that large amounts of whites will not admit to voting Trump, but will do so, is an admission of the racist nature of white America. It is a statement that whites class looting as a bigger issue than police brutality against blacks, which is an exponentially bigger issue.

Your statement about "violent protestors" wrongly brands all protestors as illegitimate, it makes no attempt to deal with the reality that right-wing agent provocateurs are hijacking protests to commit violence with the specific aim of delegitimising righteous and just black protest, and it whitewashes police brutality and executions by omission of mention.

The poster above me, "whitey", has a long and consistent record of racist dog whistling and trolling on this forum. And that should be continually pointed out. Again, there's no need to be politically correct in order to not offend people here. "Whitey" is a racist, and that should be continually be pointed out.

Sid - while I admire your stance but it is more complex than that.

To just say 'I am wrong' and then tar millions of people with the same brush with no evidence is 'wrong'.

Im no Trump supporter and the biggest issue in the US right now is Police brutality & racism - period.

You can surely see the violent protestors is pushing people towards Trump?

Regarding who was voted in last time - perhaps given the choices Clinton or Trump - it means that many voted as the least worst in their eyes - not that every single one of them was racist?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 03:26:25 PM
Great. An article from Heather "war on cops" McDonald.

Stop whinging black people. You've no legitimate concerns with the justice system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 03, 2020, 03:38:00 PM
Trumps past tweet holds up well for today.

(https://i.ibb.co/3NFWHP7/Screenshot-20200602-221958-2.png) (https://ibb.co/r6pMJXm)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 03:39:27 PM
I didn't know people were driving Rolls Royces on Bloody Sunday

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1268176768822685696?s=20
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on June 03, 2020, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 03, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Whitey, why are you comparing Police Brutality to Gang related shootings?

I read as far as the myth of systematic police racism and stopped. Didn't need to go any further
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 04:08:49 PM
Jaysus.....Rosenstein testimony.......a dumpster fire for the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 03, 2020, 04:39:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 02:43:37 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 03, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Whitey, why are you comparing Police Brutality to Gang related shootings?
It's very important for right-wing nut jobs to try and stop discussion of actual pressing issues, by using deflection.

They do this because they have made the decision to be brainwashed into being right-wing culture warriors who have no progressive vision whatsoever for society, and instead devote their time to mindlessly campaigning for the upholding of indefensible injustice and white supremacism.

Editorial Page of WSJ hardly right wing but jobs but keep believing what CNN is telling you

There you go again Whitey reaching into your Rupert Murdoch bubble to seek validation for your stance on the News Media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on June 03, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 10:48:57 AM
Just watched a video of looters in a what looked like a Nike store, dirty scumbags

Why are you concerned about people lifting a few pairs of shoes that cost $5 to get made in China? I'd rather it didn't happen but not high on my list of priorities compared to police killing people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 04:45:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 03, 2020, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 03, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Whitey, why are you comparing Police Brutality to Gang related shootings?

I read as far as the myth of systematic police racism and stopped. Didn't need to go any further

The author has been beating that drum for years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 04:48:09 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on June 03, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 10:48:57 AM
Just watched a video of looters in a what looked like a Nike store, dirty scumbags

Why are you concerned about people lifting a few pairs of shoes that cost $5 to get made in China? I'd rather it didn't happen but not high on my list of priorities compared to police killing people.

Is it only Nike stores getting looted?

Any other stores or anyone being hurt?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 04:53:45 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on June 03, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 10:48:57 AM
Just watched a video of looters in a what looked like a Nike store, dirty scumbags

Why are you concerned about people lifting a few pairs of shoes that cost $5 to get made in China? I'd rather it didn't happen but not high on my list of priorities compared to police killing people.
ah it's only shoes it's only target it's only the Indian restaurant it's only the cop station it's only the bank where does it stop ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 04:55:42 PM
It was a much quieter night in NYC.

Hopefully the start of a trend.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:21:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 11:48:52 AM
I see the GOP in Iowa have finally tossed out Steve King. After nine terms.

And nothing of value was lost. That'll learn him. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of conservatives running for office on a blatant racist platform.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Seems like Trump's lash-out-at-the-media-and-shoot-the-messenger strategy is paying off.

But if Biden does get in somehow, I could see him serving one term and then someone like Newsom having a go.

I wouldn't write Biden off yet. It's a long way to November and a lot of dead bodies are going to be piled up between now and then thanks to Donald. A lot will depend on how successful he is in shifting blame away from himself. He'll take credit for anything that goes right and deflect blame for anything that goes wrong, which will play well with the religious crowd who are used to doing that sort of thing with God. I don't know if it'll be enough with swing voters though.
Well well well. Trump starting to get it tight again. Maybe his supporters are dropping dead with the virus.

2020 winner:
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Wheisht! Trump getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Well well well. Now it's even. Trump's odds of reelection are in freefall. As the covid death toll mounts and the riots spread, I expect to see him get even more desperate. Expect more scapegoating of China, Mexico, immigrants, and people of colour in the next few months. That includes you, Whitey. I assume you're an immigrant. Don't for one minute think he has your back.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10

Joe seems to be the favourite for the first time. Trump's odds are definitely drifting and Biden's are shortening. Still a bit close for my liking though.
2020 winner:
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10

The "violent protests are hurting Biden" theory doesn't seem to be holding up. His odds are still shortening and Trump's are still drifting. Biden is now the favourite.

2020 winner:
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
https://fallriverreporter.com/report-85-year-old-air-force-veteran-body-slammed-in-fall-river-for-holding-trump-sign/

Now they're Battering 85 year old Trump supporters

A veteran who fought for their right to protest

I can't wait to read what The NY Times and WaPo have to say about this

(I bet Trump will be calling him on the phone to inquire after his well-being later today)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 05:52:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 03:20:53 PM

Sid - while I admire your stance but it is more complex than that.

To just say 'I am wrong' and then tar millions of people with the same brush with no evidence is 'wrong'.

Im no Trump supporter and the biggest issue in the US right now is Police brutality & racism - period.

You can surely see the violent protestors is pushing people towards Trump?

Regarding who was voted in last time - perhaps given the choices Clinton or Trump - it means that many voted as the least worst in their eyes - not that every single one of them was racist?
Hillary Clinton was not a racist, fascist demagogue. Neither is Joe Biden. Each is problematic in their own way but very much within a normal frame of reference and each was/is unquestionably a better option than a racist, fascist demagogue. Jacques Chirac was problematic within a normal frame of reference in 2002 but was unquestionably a better option than the racist, fascist demagogue Jean Marie Le Pen. Similarly with Emmanuel Macron over Le Pen's daughter in 2017.

People don't get "pushed" into voting for Trump. That's an excuse for giving in to their own bigotry. If they vote for Trump it's because they're happy to accept a racist, fascist demagogue in the White House.

Do you accept there is significant interference being run here by far right agent provocateurs to turn protests violent?

That's a naked attack on the right of the black community to protest. It's telling the black community - "if you protest, we will interfere to make things violent with the express aim of deligitimising and demonising you". I'm sure you can see the problem for democracy there.

Which is a much, much more important story than some hangers on going too far and looting some shops. Maybe not for people who have a predisposition to vote for a racist, fascist demagogue.

We rightly say white America has never come to terms with its original sin. It has never dealt with its endemic racism, and thus, we have police brutality against black people. What could be more demonstrative of the undealt with endemic racism than mass support for a racist, fascist demagogue? Support for that demagogue is the banality of evil. I'm certain those in Germany who supported Hitler in the 1930s mainly thought of themselves as good people. Most people think of themselves as good people. The majority of Trump supporters would not inflict violence on somebody of an ethnic minority. They're likely polite in person, and capable of compassion. But that's not the point. That's not what everyday racism is. If somebody supports a racist, fascist demagogue, they are giving support to evil. They are participating in the. perpetuation of endemic and vicious racism

Trump literally campaigned on chaos. He is on record as calling for riots and chaos and for things to "go to total hell".

A significant amount of his supporters desire chaos. My evidence is the following.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/opinion/trump-voters-chaos.html

Last week, at the annual meeting of the American Political Science Association, the winner of the best paper award in the Political Psychology division was "A 'Need for Chaos' and the Sharing of Hostile Political Rumors in Advanced Democracies."

The paper, which the award panel commended for its "ambitious scope, rigor, and creativity," is the work of Michael Bang Petersen and Mathias Osmundsen, both political scientists at Aarhus University in Denmark, and Kevin Arceneaux, a political scientist at Temple.

It argues that a segment of the American electorate that was once peripheral is drawn to "chaos incitement" and that this segment has gained decisive influence through the rise of social media.

------

How do Petersen, Osmundsen and Arceneaux measure this "need for chaos"? They conducted six surveys, four in the United States, in which they interviewed 5157 participants, and two in Denmark, with 1336. They identified those who are "drawn to chaos" through their affirmative responses to the following statements:

I fantasize about a natural disaster wiping out most of humanity such that a small group of people can start all over.

I think society should be burned to the ground.

When I think about our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking "just let them all burn."

We cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over.

Sometimes I just feel like destroying beautiful things.

In an email, Petersen wrote that preliminary examination of the data shows "that the 'need for chaos' correlates positively with sympathy for Trump but also — although less strongly — with sympathy for Sanders. It correlates negatively with sympathy for Hillary Clinton." (After publication of this column, Petersen asked to clarify his comment. "The information given in the above quote," he said, "solely reflected an initial interpretation of a preliminary analysis, which is not part of the research on which the column is based.")

-----
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/trumps-hardcore-fans-crave-chaos-and-think-society-should-be-burned-to-the-ground-political-scientists/

The study's authors — political scientists Michael Bang Petersen and Mathias Osmundsen of Aarhus University in Denmark, and Kevin Arceneaux of Temple University — found that Trump supporters were far more likely than other voters to be sympathetic toward statements such as "I fantasize about a natural disaster wiping out most of humanity such that a small group of people can start all over" and "I think society should be burned to the ground."

These views are a minority among voters, the authors claim, but they nonetheless have "incredible amounts of support" among the general population. In fact, the study found that 24 percent of all 6,000-plus people surveyed said they believed society "should be burned to the ground."



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
https://fallriverreporter.com/report-85-year-old-air-force-veteran-body-slammed-in-fall-river-for-holding-trump-sign/

Now they're Battering 85 year old Trump supporters

A veteran who fought for their right to protest

I can't wait to read what The NY Times and WaPo have to say about this

(I bet Trump will be calling him on the phone to inquire after his well-being later today)

Tell us, what do you think the Times and Post will be saying?

As for Trump, do you think he'll let the old codger's family say something, unlike with Floyd's brother the other day?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 05:54:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:21:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 11:48:52 AM
I see the GOP in Iowa have finally tossed out Steve King. After nine terms.

And nothing of value was lost. That'll learn him. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of conservatives running for office on a blatant racist platform.

Yep, subtly is essential.

King was fine until he started running his mouth off too openly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 06:03:21 PM
BTW whitey, are you in agreement with Heather McDonald that there is NO victimization or mistreatment of black people by police? You posted the piece without comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 06:04:09 PM
Quote from: omochain on June 03, 2020, 04:39:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 02:43:37 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 03, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Whitey, why are you comparing Police Brutality to Gang related shootings?
It's very important for right-wing nut jobs to try and stop discussion of actual pressing issues, by using deflection.

They do this because they have made the decision to be brainwashed into being right-wing culture warriors who have no progressive vision whatsoever for society, and instead devote their time to mindlessly campaigning for the upholding of indefensible injustice and white supremacism.

Editorial Page of WSJ hardly right wing but jobs but keep believing what CNN is telling you

There you go again Whitey reaching into your Rupert Murdoch bubble to seek validation for your stance on the News Media.
The editorial and opinion pages of the Wall Street Journal are a shameless vehicle for fascism and kleptocracy.

The paper was fervent in its support for Brazil's fascist aspiring dictator Jair Bolsonaro.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
https://fallriverreporter.com/report-85-year-old-air-force-veteran-body-slammed-in-fall-river-for-holding-trump-sign/

Now they're Battering 85 year old Trump supporters

A veteran who fought for their right to protest

I can't wait to read what The NY Times and WaPo have to say about this

(I bet Trump will be calling him on the phone to inquire after his well-being later today)

Tell us, what do you think the Times and Post will be saying?

As for Trump, do you think he'll let the old codger's family say something, unlike with Floyd's brother the other day?

I'm sure they will be just as outraged as They were when the Covington kids surrounded and intimidated the Native American Tribal Elder and Vietnam Veteran
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 06:14:57 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on June 03, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 10:48:57 AM
Just watched a video of looters in a what looked like a Nike store, dirty scumbags

Why are you concerned about people lifting a few pairs of shoes that cost $5 to get made in China? I'd rather it didn't happen but not high on my list of priorities compared to police killing people.

So are you not concerned or agreeing with looters?

And what have looters got to do with peaceful protesters? I seen loads of white people heading into the shop multiple times, scumbags.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 06:15:25 PM
We've found a case of voter fraud.

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1268225403979804673

President Trump tried to register to vote in Florida using an out-of-state address - The Washington Post
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 06:17:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
https://fallriverreporter.com/report-85-year-old-air-force-veteran-body-slammed-in-fall-river-for-holding-trump-sign/

Now they're Battering 85 year old Trump supporters

A veteran who fought for their right to protest

I can't wait to read what The NY Times and WaPo have to say about this

(I bet Trump will be calling him on the phone to inquire after his well-being later today)

Tell us, what do you think the Times and Post will be saying?

As for Trump, do you think he'll let the old codger's family say something, unlike with Floyd's brother the other day?

I'm sure they will be just as outraged as They were when the Covington kids surrounded and intimidated the Native American Tribal Elder and Vietnam Veteran

Talk about setting up a straw man!

On the one hand, a widely covered story arising out of protests at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC.

On the other, a three line story about an old man with a Trump sign being assaulted by some 27 year old moron in some town no one has heard of in MA, with no other details whatsoever.

Yeah, if the Times and Post don't pick this up and put it on their front pages, its more proof of their ridiculous liberal bias.

You're gone in the head with this stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
Nah....I'm just being sarcastic. But compared to the Covington story, this one , if true, is 50 times more outrageous and you probably won't hear a word about it because it doesn't fit their narrative
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 06:31:50 PM
Governor Jim Justice (R) of West Virginia says that he would welcome any president to his state.

Oh wait, any white president.

Just one former president, Barack Obama, is classed as being not welcome.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1268222197212106753
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
Nah....I'm just being sarcastic. But compared to the Covington story, this one , if true, is 50 times more outrageous and you probably won't hear a word about it because it doesn't fit their narrative

You sure its not 100 time more outrageous? 1000?

Any context yet?

Was it a protest? A riot? Some drunk eejit angry at his girlfriend wandering home looking for trouble?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 06:37:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
Nah....I'm just being sarcastic. But compared to the Covington story, this one , if true, is 50 times more outrageous and you probably won't hear a word about it because it doesn't fit their narrative

You sure its not 100 time more outrageous? 1000?

Any context yet?

Was it a protest? A riot? Some drunk eejit angry at his girlfriend wandering home looking for trouble?

Doesn't matter

No one should be assaulting anyone lest of all an 85 year old veteran
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 06:37:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
Nah....I'm just being sarcastic. But compared to the Covington story, this one , if true, is 50 times more outrageous and you probably won't hear a word about it because it doesn't fit their narrative

You sure its not 100 time more outrageous? 1000?

Any context yet?

Was it a protest? A riot? Some drunk eejit angry at his girlfriend wandering home looking for trouble?

Doesn't matter

No one should be assaulting anyone lest of all an 85 year old veteran

Well, yeah!  :)

I would hope that gobshite will do time for that. Inexcusible behaviour. He better hope the auld lad recovers fully.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 06:43:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 06:31:50 PM
Governor Jim Justice (R) of West Virginia says that he would welcome any president to his state.

Oh wait, any white president.

Just one former president, Barack Obama, is classed as being not welcome.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1268222197212106753

Has Joe Manchin commented?

I just read that this idiot became a Democrat to win the governorship, then switched back to the GOP.

Richest man in WV apparently. Coal magnate.

Wonder what his company's safety record is like?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:02:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 05:52:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 03:20:53 PM

Sid - while I admire your stance but it is more complex than that.

To just say 'I am wrong' and then tar millions of people with the same brush with no evidence is 'wrong'.

Im no Trump supporter and the biggest issue in the US right now is Police brutality & racism - period.

You can surely see the violent protestors is pushing people towards Trump?

Regarding who was voted in last time - perhaps given the choices Clinton or Trump - it means that many voted as the least worst in their eyes - not that every single one of them was racist?
Hillary Clinton was not a racist, fascist demagogue. Neither is Joe Biden. Each is problematic in their own way but very much within a normal frame of reference and each was/is unquestionably a better option than a racist, fascist demagogue. Jacques Chirac was problematic within a normal frame of reference in 2002 but was unquestionably a better option than the racist, fascist demagogue Jean Marie Le Pen. Similarly with Emmanuel Macron over Le Pen's daughter in 2017.

People don't get "pushed" into voting for Trump. That's an excuse for giving in to their own bigotry. If they vote for Trump it's because they're happy to accept a racist, fascist demagogue in the White House.

Do you accept there is significant interference being run here by far right agent provocateurs to turn protests violent?

That's a naked attack on the right of the black community to protest. It's telling the black community - "if you protest, we will interfere to make things violent with the express aim of deligitimising and demonising you". I'm sure you can see the problem for democracy there.

Which is a much, much more important story than some hangers on going too far and looting some shops. Maybe not for people who have a predisposition to vote for a racist, fascist demagogue.

We rightly say white America has never come to terms with its original sin. It has never dealt with its endemic racism, and thus, we have police brutality against black people. What could be more demonstrative of the undealt with endemic racism than mass support for a racist, fascist demagogue? Support for that demagogue is the banality of evil. I'm certain those in Germany who supported Hitler in the 1930s mainly thought of themselves as good people. Most people think of themselves as good people. The majority of Trump supporters would not inflict violence on somebody of an ethnic minority. They're likely polite in person, and capable of compassion. But that's not the point. That's not what everyday racism is. If somebody supports a racist, fascist demagogue, they are giving support to evil. They are participating in the. perpetuation of endemic and vicious racism

Trump literally campaigned on chaos. He is on record as calling for riots and chaos and for things to "go to total hell".

A significant amount of his supporters desire chaos. My evidence is the following.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/opinion/trump-voters-chaos.html

Last week, at the annual meeting of the American Political Science Association, the winner of the best paper award in the Political Psychology division was "A 'Need for Chaos' and the Sharing of Hostile Political Rumors in Advanced Democracies."

The paper, which the award panel commended for its "ambitious scope, rigor, and creativity," is the work of Michael Bang Petersen and Mathias Osmundsen, both political scientists at Aarhus University in Denmark, and Kevin Arceneaux, a political scientist at Temple.

It argues that a segment of the American electorate that was once peripheral is drawn to "chaos incitement" and that this segment has gained decisive influence through the rise of social media.

------

How do Petersen, Osmundsen and Arceneaux measure this "need for chaos"? They conducted six surveys, four in the United States, in which they interviewed 5157 participants, and two in Denmark, with 1336. They identified those who are "drawn to chaos" through their affirmative responses to the following statements:

I fantasize about a natural disaster wiping out most of humanity such that a small group of people can start all over.

I think society should be burned to the ground.

When I think about our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking "just let them all burn."

We cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over.

Sometimes I just feel like destroying beautiful things.

In an email, Petersen wrote that preliminary examination of the data shows "that the 'need for chaos' correlates positively with sympathy for Trump but also — although less strongly — with sympathy for Sanders. It correlates negatively with sympathy for Hillary Clinton." (After publication of this column, Petersen asked to clarify his comment. "The information given in the above quote," he said, "solely reflected an initial interpretation of a preliminary analysis, which is not part of the research on which the column is based.")

-----
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/trumps-hardcore-fans-crave-chaos-and-think-society-should-be-burned-to-the-ground-political-scientists/

The study's authors — political scientists Michael Bang Petersen and Mathias Osmundsen of Aarhus University in Denmark, and Kevin Arceneaux of Temple University — found that Trump supporters were far more likely than other voters to be sympathetic toward statements such as "I fantasize about a natural disaster wiping out most of humanity such that a small group of people can start all over" and "I think society should be burned to the ground."

These views are a minority among voters, the authors claim, but they nonetheless have "incredible amounts of support" among the general population. In fact, the study found that 24 percent of all 6,000-plus people surveyed said they believed society "should be burned to the ground."

So 24% of 6,000 people thought this........just over 1400.

And this study is linked to the 65m who voted for Trump? Right so.

I get you despise Trump and everything he stands for but there are other things at work here.

Is Trump to blame for the Rodney King riots?
What about the King assassination riots?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 03, 2020, 07:13:50 PM
What does it mean to fantasize about a small group of people starting over after a natural disaster mean?   Does watching a disaster movie count? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
is covid gone now how come the news channels have quit talking about it ? They don't want to call out protesters/rioters gutless pieces of shit ,Sacramento kings broadcaster was forced to resign for tweeting all lives matter it's pretty f$$ked up world when that is an outrageous statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
is covid gone now how come the news channels have quit talking about it ? They don't want to call out protesters/rioters gutless pieces of shit ,Sacramento kings broadcaster was forced to resign for tweeting all lives matter it's pretty f$$ked up world when that is an outrageous statement.

1. I don't know about where you are, but there's plenty of fretting and discussion here in NY about the potential effects of the protests and riots on the COVID outbreak. Fact is though that the protests and riots are bigger news at the moment. COVID has been with us for months and it still be with us when things settle down.

2. That broadcaster was asked what he thought about BLM by a player and responded with All Lives Matter. From the little bit I read it sounded like he was bated into his response; Cousins was expecting it, I guess, based on past interactions. And All Lives Matter IS an inflammatory response. Its meant to invalidate or dismiss BLM. BLM has never been about "only black lives matter". The whole point is "black lives matter TOO!". All Lives Matter is the response of those who don't want to hear about the problems black people have suffered with the authorities. The broadcaster was an idiot.
I'm sure he'll be all right though and secure a gig on Fox News or somewhere else on the right wing white victimhood media circuit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on June 03, 2020, 08:52:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

How did you come to this conclusion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 03, 2020, 09:13:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PMAntifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Sorry, I missed the bit where you presented evidence linked them to "antifa"....


[and it was previously noted that antifa means anti-fascism. Its not an organisation.]

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
is covid gone now how come the news channels have quit talking about it ? They don't want to call out protesters/rioters gutless pieces of shit ,Sacramento kings broadcaster was forced to resign for tweeting all lives matter it's pretty f$$ked up world when that is an outrageous statement.

1. I don't know about where you are, but there's plenty of fretting and discussion here in NY about the potential effects of the protests and riots on the COVID outbreak. Fact is though that the protests and riots are bigger news at the moment. COVID has been with us for months and it still be with us when things settle down.

2. That broadcaster was asked what he thought about BLM by a player and responded with All Lives Matter. From the little bit I read it sounded like he was bated into his response; Cousins was expecting it, I guess, based on past interactions. And All Lives Matter IS an inflammatory response. Its meant to invalidate or dismiss BLM. BLM has never been about "only black lives matter". The whole point is "black lives matter TOO!". All Lives Matter is the response of those who don't want to hear about the problems black people have suffered with the authorities. The broadcaster was an idiot.
I'm sure he'll be all right though and secure a gig on Fox News or somewhere else on the right wing white victimhood media
thats what you think it means I don't ,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 09:20:59 PM
Obama making a speech at 5
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 09:22:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
is covid gone now how come the news channels have quit talking about it ? They don't want to call out protesters/rioters gutless pieces of shit ,Sacramento kings broadcaster was forced to resign for tweeting all lives matter it's pretty f$$ked up world when that is an outrageous statement.

1. I don't know about where you are, but there's plenty of fretting and discussion here in NY about the potential effects of the protests and riots on the COVID outbreak. Fact is though that the protests and riots are bigger news at the moment. COVID has been with us for months and it still be with us when things settle down.

2. That broadcaster was asked what he thought about BLM by a player and responded with All Lives Matter. From the little bit I read it sounded like he was bated into his response; Cousins was expecting it, I guess, based on past interactions. And All Lives Matter IS an inflammatory response. Its meant to invalidate or dismiss BLM. BLM has never been about "only black lives matter". The whole point is "black lives matter TOO!". All Lives Matter is the response of those who don't want to hear about the problems black people have suffered with the authorities. The broadcaster was an idiot.
I'm sure he'll be all right though and secure a gig on Fox News or somewhere else on the right wing white victimhood media
thats what you think it means I don't ,

Well what do you think it means?

Why would someone retort "All Lives Matter" when they see or hear "Black Lives Matter"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on June 03, 2020, 09:45:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
is covid gone now how come the news channels have quit talking about it ? They don't want to call out protesters/rioters gutless pieces of shit ,Sacramento kings broadcaster was forced to resign for tweeting all lives matter it's pretty f$$ked up world when that is an outrageous statement.

1. I don't know about where you are, but there's plenty of fretting and discussion here in NY about the potential effects of the protests and riots on the COVID outbreak. Fact is though that the protests and riots are bigger news at the moment. COVID has been with us for months and it still be with us when things settle down.

2. That broadcaster was asked what he thought about BLM by a player and responded with All Lives Matter. From the little bit I read it sounded like he was bated into his response; Cousins was expecting it, I guess, based on past interactions. And All Lives Matter IS an inflammatory response. Its meant to invalidate or dismiss BLM. BLM has never been about "only black lives matter". The whole point is "black lives matter TOO!". All Lives Matter is the response of those who don't want to hear about the problems black people have suffered with the authorities. The broadcaster was an idiot.
I'm sure he'll be all right though and secure a gig on Fox News or somewhere else on the right wing white victimhood media
thats what you think it means I don't ,
Really? Some of the posts on here are extremely revealing. You might as well say "I don't know why black people are complaining, they are treated the same as everyone else". Which is obviously balls to any right thinking individual. "Black lives matter" means exactly what J70 has said it means, and thats how it's interpreted all round the world by anyone who has a shred of empathy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 03, 2020, 09:55:18 PM
Josh Caplan (@joshdcaplan) Tweeted:
Road Rage: Man with 'Wolverine Claw' Confronts Teens Who Reportedly Threw Objects at His Car https://t.co/SNePv2ekfo

J70....this guy is from your neck of the woods. Is he a mate of yours?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 10:17:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 09:55:18 PM
Josh Caplan (@joshdcaplan) Tweeted:
Road Rage: Man with 'Wolverine Claw' Confronts Teens Who Reportedly Threw Objects at His Car https://t.co/SNePv2ekfo

J70....this guy is from your neck of the woods. Is he a mate of yours?

Guy looks deranged. What the f**k was that weapon?? Why would you have something like that in your car?? ;D

No doubt mouthing off at the teenage protesters, they throw something at him in response, then he does a ridiculous u-turn on a busy flyover (I know it well) and chases a bunch of sixteen year old girls and boys with some bizarre knife array.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 03, 2020, 09:45:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
is covid gone now how come the news channels have quit talking about it ? They don't want to call out protesters/rioters gutless pieces of shit ,Sacramento kings broadcaster was forced to resign for tweeting all lives matter it's pretty f$$ked up world when that is an outrageous statement.

1. I don't know about where you are, but there's plenty of fretting and discussion here in NY about the potential effects of the protests and riots on the COVID outbreak. Fact is though that the protests and riots are bigger news at the moment. COVID has been with us for months and it still be with us when things settle down.

2. That broadcaster was asked what he thought about BLM by a player and responded with All Lives Matter. From the little bit I read it sounded like he was bated into his response; Cousins was expecting it, I guess, based on past interactions. And All Lives Matter IS an inflammatory response. Its meant to invalidate or dismiss BLM. BLM has never been about "only black lives matter". The whole point is "black lives matter TOO!". All Lives Matter is the response of those who don't want to hear about the problems black people have suffered with the authorities. The broadcaster was an idiot.
I'm sure he'll be all right though and secure a gig on Fox News or somewhere else on the right wing white victimhood media
thats what you think it means I don't ,
Really? Some of the posts on here are extremely revealing. You might as well say "I don't know why black people are complaining, they are treated the same as everyone else". Which is obviously balls to any right thinking individual. "Black lives matter" means exactly what J70 has said it means, and thats how it's interpreted all round the world by anyone who has a shred of empathy.
but not all black lives matter either, have you heard about the black federal agent shot dead in Oakland Friday night or the 77 year old ex police chief shot in the head in St. Louis Monday night ? I think you are in Ireland honest question have you heard about these two men .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2020, 10:45:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 03, 2020, 09:45:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
is covid gone now how come the news channels have quit talking about it ? They don't want to call out protesters/rioters gutless pieces of shit ,Sacramento kings broadcaster was forced to resign for tweeting all lives matter it's pretty f$$ked up world when that is an outrageous statement.

1. I don't know about where you are, but there's plenty of fretting and discussion here in NY about the potential effects of the protests and riots on the COVID outbreak. Fact is though that the protests and riots are bigger news at the moment. COVID has been with us for months and it still be with us when things settle down.

2. That broadcaster was asked what he thought about BLM by a player and responded with All Lives Matter. From the little bit I read it sounded like he was bated into his response; Cousins was expecting it, I guess, based on past interactions. And All Lives Matter IS an inflammatory response. Its meant to invalidate or dismiss BLM. BLM has never been about "only black lives matter". The whole point is "black lives matter TOO!". All Lives Matter is the response of those who don't want to hear about the problems black people have suffered with the authorities. The broadcaster was an idiot.
I'm sure he'll be all right though and secure a gig on Fox News or somewhere else on the right wing white victimhood media
thats what you think it means I don't ,
Really? Some of the posts on here are extremely revealing. You might as well say "I don't know why black people are complaining, they are treated the same as everyone else". Which is obviously balls to any right thinking individual. "Black lives matter" means exactly what J70 has said it means, and thats how it's interpreted all round the world by anyone who has a shred of empathy.
but not all black lives matter either, have you heard about the black federal agent shot dead in Oakland Friday night or the 77 year old ex police chief shot in the head in St. Louis Monday night ? I think you are in Ireland honest question have you heard about these two men .

Who says their lives didn't matter?

Will there be a reluctance on the part of the authorities to hold those responsible accountable?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 10:52:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 10:45:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 03, 2020, 09:45:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
is covid gone now how come the news channels have quit talking about it ? They don't want to call out protesters/rioters gutless pieces of shit ,Sacramento kings broadcaster was forced to resign for tweeting all lives matter it's pretty f$$ked up world when that is an outrageous statement.

1. I don't know about where you are, but there's plenty of fretting and discussion here in NY about the potential effects of the protests and riots on the COVID outbreak. Fact is though that the protests and riots are bigger news at the moment. COVID has been with us for months and it still be with us when things settle down.

2. That broadcaster was asked what he thought about BLM by a player and responded with All Lives Matter. From the little bit I read it sounded like he was bated into his response; Cousins was expecting it, I guess, based on past interactions. And All Lives Matter IS an inflammatory response. Its meant to invalidate or dismiss BLM. BLM has never been about "only black lives matter". The whole point is "black lives matter TOO!". All Lives Matter is the response of those who don't want to hear about the problems black people have suffered with the authorities. The broadcaster was an idiot.
I'm sure he'll be all right though and secure a gig on Fox News or somewhere else on the right wing white victimhood media
thats what you think it means I don't ,
Really? Some of the posts on here are extremely revealing. You might as well say "I don't know why black people are complaining, they are treated the same as everyone else". Which is obviously balls to any right thinking individual. "Black lives matter" means exactly what J70 has said it means, and thats how it's interpreted all round the world by anyone who has a shred of empathy.
but not all black lives matter either, have you heard about the black federal agent shot dead in Oakland Friday night or the 77 year old ex police chief shot in the head in St. Louis Monday night ? I think you are in Ireland honest question have you heard about these two men .

Who says their lives didn't matter?

Will there be a reluctance on the part of the authorities to hold those responsible accountable?
i think we should all start singing imagine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 11:36:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Bad Gyal Ting 🇯🇲 (@lovelo_xoxo) Tweeted:
STAY WOKE!!! They had a brick trying to cause destruction. #TampaProtest https://t.co/S0apXO4W0p


Antifa caught hijacking BLM protest

Fair fucks to that lady.
is covid gone now how come the news channels have quit talking about it ? They don't want to call out protesters/rioters gutless pieces of shit ,Sacramento kings broadcaster was forced to resign for tweeting all lives matter it's pretty f$$ked up world when that is an outrageous statement.

If you can't see what's wrong with the "All lives matter" bullshit then there's probably not much anyone can do for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 11:41:27 PM
Let's see our resident Trump fans defend this bit of driving by one of their own in San Jose last night, about five blocks from my home:

https://www.facebook.com/noe.palomino/videos/10222745820772469/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 11:49:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 03, 2020, 05:52:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 03:20:53 PM

Sid - while I admire your stance but it is more complex than that.

To just say 'I am wrong' and then tar millions of people with the same brush with no evidence is 'wrong'.

Im no Trump supporter and the biggest issue in the US right now is Police brutality & racism - period.

You can surely see the violent protestors is pushing people towards Trump?

Regarding who was voted in last time - perhaps given the choices Clinton or Trump - it means that many voted as the least worst in their eyes - not that every single one of them was racist?
Hillary Clinton was not a racist, fascist demagogue. Neither is Joe Biden. Each is problematic in their own way but very much within a normal frame of reference and each was/is unquestionably a better option than a racist, fascist demagogue. Jacques Chirac was problematic within a normal frame of reference in 2002 but was unquestionably a better option than the racist, fascist demagogue Jean Marie Le Pen. Similarly with Emmanuel Macron over Le Pen's daughter in 2017.

People don't get "pushed" into voting for Trump. That's an excuse for giving in to their own bigotry. If they vote for Trump it's because they're happy to accept a racist, fascist demagogue in the White House.

Do you accept there is significant interference being run here by far right agent provocateurs to turn protests violent?

That's a naked attack on the right of the black community to protest. It's telling the black community - "if you protest, we will interfere to make things violent with the express aim of deligitimising and demonising you". I'm sure you can see the problem for democracy there.

Which is a much, much more important story than some hangers on going too far and looting some shops. Maybe not for people who have a predisposition to vote for a racist, fascist demagogue.

We rightly say white America has never come to terms with its original sin. It has never dealt with its endemic racism, and thus, we have police brutality against black people. What could be more demonstrative of the undealt with endemic racism than mass support for a racist, fascist demagogue? Support for that demagogue is the banality of evil. I'm certain those in Germany who supported Hitler in the 1930s mainly thought of themselves as good people. Most people think of themselves as good people. The majority of Trump supporters would not inflict violence on somebody of an ethnic minority. They're likely polite in person, and capable of compassion. But that's not the point. That's not what everyday racism is. If somebody supports a racist, fascist demagogue, they are giving support to evil. They are participating in the. perpetuation of endemic and vicious racism

Trump literally campaigned on chaos. He is on record as calling for riots and chaos and for things to "go to total hell".

A significant amount of his supporters desire chaos. My evidence is the following.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/opinion/trump-voters-chaos.html

Last week, at the annual meeting of the American Political Science Association, the winner of the best paper award in the Political Psychology division was "A 'Need for Chaos' and the Sharing of Hostile Political Rumors in Advanced Democracies."

The paper, which the award panel commended for its "ambitious scope, rigor, and creativity," is the work of Michael Bang Petersen and Mathias Osmundsen, both political scientists at Aarhus University in Denmark, and Kevin Arceneaux, a political scientist at Temple.

It argues that a segment of the American electorate that was once peripheral is drawn to "chaos incitement" and that this segment has gained decisive influence through the rise of social media.

------

How do Petersen, Osmundsen and Arceneaux measure this "need for chaos"? They conducted six surveys, four in the United States, in which they interviewed 5157 participants, and two in Denmark, with 1336. They identified those who are "drawn to chaos" through their affirmative responses to the following statements:

I fantasize about a natural disaster wiping out most of humanity such that a small group of people can start all over.

I think society should be burned to the ground.

When I think about our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking "just let them all burn."

We cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over.

Sometimes I just feel like destroying beautiful things.

In an email, Petersen wrote that preliminary examination of the data shows "that the 'need for chaos' correlates positively with sympathy for Trump but also — although less strongly — with sympathy for Sanders. It correlates negatively with sympathy for Hillary Clinton." (After publication of this column, Petersen asked to clarify his comment. "The information given in the above quote," he said, "solely reflected an initial interpretation of a preliminary analysis, which is not part of the research on which the column is based.")

-----
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/trumps-hardcore-fans-crave-chaos-and-think-society-should-be-burned-to-the-ground-political-scientists/

The study's authors — political scientists Michael Bang Petersen and Mathias Osmundsen of Aarhus University in Denmark, and Kevin Arceneaux of Temple University — found that Trump supporters were far more likely than other voters to be sympathetic toward statements such as "I fantasize about a natural disaster wiping out most of humanity such that a small group of people can start all over" and "I think society should be burned to the ground."

These views are a minority among voters, the authors claim, but they nonetheless have "incredible amounts of support" among the general population. In fact, the study found that 24 percent of all 6,000-plus people surveyed said they believed society "should be burned to the ground."

You know what I find hilarious? The people who go on the most about "personal responsibility" and who won't accept any other explanation for crime (poverty, income inequality, discrimination, etc.) are the same people who refuse to take responsibility for voting for Trump and other racist candidates. It's the "Oh but the nasty liburl meeja made me do it because I read something in the Washington Post and it made me cry" defense.  It'd sicken your hole listening to them. They'll use any excuse to justify their racism, and they sure as shit won't take "personal responsibility" for it. Just like they accused Obama of being divisive by provoking their racism with that unreasonably dark skin of his.

This conservative victimhood act is pathetic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 12:41:10 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:02:20 PM

So 24% of 6,000 people thought this........just over 1400.

And this study is linked to the 65m who voted for Trump? Right so.

I get you despise Trump and everything he stands for but there are other things at work here.

Is Trump to blame for the Rodney King riots?
What about the King assassination riots?
62.9 million voted for Trump, that's if you're to believe all his votes were actually legitimate ones.

The point of political science studies and polling is to extrapolate the views of larger groups of people by using representative sampling. And despite what some people might claim, it generally works very well.

You'll have to expand when you say that "there are other things at work here", I don't know what you mean by that.

I'm not sure what function your last two questions serve.

Amazingly enough, there was also massive and righteous anger felt within the black community after MLK was murdered and after the Rodney King verdict.

The same injustice and the same fights continue. Nothing has changed - except that in 1968 and 1992 there weren't presidents who were publicly mobilising white America to act as a racist lynch mob. There is in 2020.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 01:05:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 11:49:20 PM

You know what I find hilarious? The people who go on the most about "personal responsibility" and who won't accept any other explanation for crime (poverty, income inequality, discrimination, etc.) are the same people who refuse to take responsibility for voting for Trump and other racist candidates. It's the "Oh but the nasty liburl meeja made me do it because I read something in the Washington Post and it made me cry" defense.  It'd sicken your hole listening to them. They'll use any excuse to justify their racism, and they sure as shit won't take "personal responsibility" for it. Just like they accused Obama of being divisive by provoking their racism with that unreasonably dark skin of his.

This conservative victimhood act is pathetic.
Obama being "too black"? File under "legitimate grievances".

Fascism has always been kitsch and camp. And it has always been filled with paranoid neuroticisms. It is mass projection of insecurities and weaknesses. Among those who carry it out, it is mass projection of criminal behaviour.

It also has a bizarre sort of sexual frustration aspect to it which is tied in with the above.

It's like performance art where people whose whole self identity is tied up in their own worthlessness and sense of inadequacy effectively masturbate in public about being caricatures of what they imagine alpha males to be.

There was a terrible air of sexual inadequacy about that vomit inducing photo op Trump did where he "marched" out of the White House. It was like he was publicly airing his intractable inner conflict. He knows he's a pathetically weak and cowardly man, who is deeply embarrassed about people rightly seeing him as such, especially after the hiding in a bunker, so he staged a creepy, neeurotic and deeply camp set piece to try and convince himself, more than anybody else, that he is strong, masculine, like Vladimir Putin topless on horseback, because that's what he imagines "masculinity" (raaaarrrr) to be (nobody with a functioning brain does).

And I've read few online posts from Trump supporters where it doesn't come across as if they are masturbating furiously behind their keyboard in a similar neurotic, fantastical fashion.

And yet, despite the fantasies of being "strong men" of Trump and his supporters, the fake victimhood complex is ever present, front and centre.

Fake victimhood being about the least masculine and most cowardly, pathetic and weak character trait one can think of.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 01:15:43 AM
I see James Mattis is now a "loony left communist crackpot" or a "cuck", depending on which term of abuse you prefer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/03/james-mattis-comdemns-trump-george-floyd-protests

I love the way Trump supporters use the word "cuck".

It's perfect representation of their projection of sexual inadequacy I was talking about in my previous post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 04, 2020, 01:21:25 AM
Quite appropriate

Quote"Most of the forces here in the riot gear, they're from the Bureau of Prisons. In essence ... the White House is now being guarded by prison guards," @MarquardtA says on CNN.

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1268327551929389058
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 01:33:12 AM
"Mad Dog" Mattis, as Trump used to call him, has now left the reservation?

I recall him demuring last year when he brought out a book, saying that it wasn't proper to have a go at sitting presidents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 01:43:50 AM
Mattis invoked the Nazis in his Atlantic article about Trump.

I'd like a few apologies from a few people for them ridiculing me invoking the Nazis about Trump.

His original Defense Secretary is now doing so.

Let me guess the excuses here from the usual suspects:

"DISGRUNTLED EX-EMPLOYEE!" (funny how they didn't use that one about the ludicrous Biden rape allegation)

"HE'S JUST JEALOUS OF TRUMP'S SUPERDOOPERMAGASUCCESS WITHOUT HIM!"

"HE HATES AMERICA!"

"MAD DOG? TOTAL PUSSY!"



Thread:

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/1268331239645347845

Sarah Kendzior
@sarahkendzior
Amazing the way pundits tip-toe around using words like "fascism" or "authoritarianism" even now. Because you know who DIDN'T hesitate to use those terms in 2016? Actual scholars of authoritarianism, who agreed that Trump was an aspiring autocrat and that democracy was in danger.

The pundits who proclaimed scholars warning of authoritarianism to be "alarmists" are equivalent to flat-earthers who denounce scientists. That's how unambiguous the warnings of the scholars were, and that's how ignorant the pundits were -- and, in many cases, still are.

Do you know how rare it is for a large group of PhDs to agree on anything?! But in 2016, scholars of varied disciplines, regional specializations, and political orientations all agreed on the threat of Trump. We spoke out, loudly, to a receptive public and a vacuous elite.

Scholars of authoritarianism weren't alone. People who lived in authoritarian states said the same thing. The targets of Trump -- ethnic and religious minorities who had already endured autocratic policies in the US -- called it out too. As did many with simple common sense.

Complicity, denial, selfishness -- take your pick, you needed a LOT of it to not see this threat coming. Why they refuse to do so is a serious question. Academics should study the "good Germans" dominating our media and political institutions. They continue to inflict great harm.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 01:43:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 01:33:12 AM
"Mad Dog" Mattis, as Trump used to call him, has now left the reservation?

I recall him demuring last year when he brought out a book, saying that it wasn't proper to have a go at sitting presidents.

I think if you start losing people like Mattis, it's game over, but of course the Democrats could still possibly fvck it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 01:53:43 AM
To the person and people who called me a fvckin dickhead, B Special, UDR member and a descendant of Captain Boycott for not equating the actions of the rioters and looters with the victims of Bloody Sunday take a look at this clip. I already put up a clip of looters riding around in a stolen Rolls Royce but this takes the (dog) biscuit. Guy broke into a rescue and stole a dog and then supposedly strangled it

Lite Pimp (@litepimp) Tweeted:
Memphis, TN.
.
This is video of the dog before it was killed.
.
Weeeeeeee'reeeeeeee going to fiiiiiiiiiiind youuuuuuuu 🤫
.
#riots #memphis DCProtests #animalcruelty #notpeaceful #protests #DallasProtest #floydgeorge #dogs #dogsoftwitter #dogsofinstagram #ChicagoProtests #animals https://t.co/cDOhM4bhQn

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 02:07:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 01:53:43 AM
To the person and people who called me a fvckin dickhead, B Special, UDR member and a descendant of Captain Boycott for not equating the actions of the rioters and looters with the victims of Bloody Sunday take a look at this clip.
Wow. It must have taken you a while to come up with that fake victimhood narrative.

Oh and if you don't want to get compared to Captain Boycott, stop denying grotesque injustice and stop trying to mendaciously shift the narrative away from grotesque injustice and endemic racism.

That's exactly what supporters of the B Specials and UDR did.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 04, 2020, 04:20:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 01:53:43 AM
To the person and people who called me a fvckin dickhead, B Special, UDR member and a descendant of Captain Boycott for not equating the actions of the rioters and looters with the victims of Bloody Sunday take a look at this clip. I already put up a clip of looters riding around in a stolen Rolls Royce but this takes the (dog) biscuit. Guy broke into a rescue and stole a dog and then supposedly strangled it

Lite Pimp (@litepimp) Tweeted:
Memphis, TN.
.
This is video of the dog before it was killed.
.
Weeeeeeee'reeeeeeee going to fiiiiiiiiiiind youuuuuuuu 🤫
.
#riots #memphis DCProtests #animalcruelty #notpeaceful #protests #WasDallasProtest #floydgeorge #dogs #dogsoftwitter #dogsofinstagram #ChicagoProtests #animals https://t.co/cDOhM4bhQn

Whitey ... you are shameless... just like your leader. I was thinking of recommending 2 books to you that might help you put the current state of "chassis" into perspective; particularly the complex narrative of we Irish and racism in the USA but you are a shameless lost cause.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 04, 2020, 04:20:27 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 01:15:43 AM
I see James Mattis is now a "loony left communist crackpot" or a "cuck", depending on which term of abuse you prefer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/03/james-mattis-comdemns-trump-george-floyd-protests

I love the way Trump supporters use the word "cuck".

It's perfect representation of their projection of sexual inadequacy I was talking about in my previous post.

A future movie about Donald Trump's catastrophic presidency could be called "Revenge of the Incels."

I mean, seriously. Who gets so sexually frustrated that they invent an entire f***ing word for the condition?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 04, 2020, 04:21:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 01:05:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 11:49:20 PM

You know what I find hilarious? The people who go on the most about "personal responsibility" and who won't accept any other explanation for crime (poverty, income inequality, discrimination, etc.) are the same people who refuse to take responsibility for voting for Trump and other racist candidates. It's the "Oh but the nasty liburl meeja made me do it because I read something in the Washington Post and it made me cry" defense.  It'd sicken your hole listening to them. They'll use any excuse to justify their racism, and they sure as shit won't take "personal responsibility" for it. Just like they accused Obama of being divisive by provoking their racism with that unreasonably dark skin of his.

This conservative victimhood act is pathetic.
Obama being "too black"? File under "legitimate grievances".

Fascism has always been kitsch and camp. And it has always been filled with paranoid neuroticisms. It is mass projection of insecurities and weaknesses. Among those who carry it out, it is mass projection of criminal behaviour.

It also has a bizarre sort of sexual frustration aspect to it which is tied in with the above.

It's like performance art where people whose whole self identity is tied up in their own worthlessness and sense of inadequacy effectively masturbate in public about being caricatures of what they imagine alpha males to be.

There was a terrible air of sexual inadequacy about that vomit inducing photo op Trump did where he "marched" out of the White House. It was like he was publicly airing his intractable inner conflict. He knows he's a pathetically weak and cowardly man, who is deeply embarrassed about people rightly seeing him as such, especially after the hiding in a bunker, so he staged a creepy, neeurotic and deeply camp set piece to try and convince himself, more than anybody else, that he is strong, masculine, like Vladimir Putin topless on horseback, because that's what he imagines "masculinity" (raaaarrrr) to be (nobody with a functioning brain does).

And I've read few online posts from Trump supporters where it doesn't come across as if they are masturbating furiously behind their keyboard in a similar neurotic, fantastical fashion.

And yet, despite the fantasies of being "strong men" of Trump and his supporters, the fake victimhood complex is ever present, front and centre.

Fake victimhood being about the least masculine and most cowardly, pathetic and weak character trait one can think of.

One of the best posts I've read all year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 04:56:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 01:05:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 11:49:20 PM

You know what I find hilarious? The people who go on the most about "personal responsibility" and who won't accept any other explanation for crime (poverty, income inequality, discrimination, etc.) are the same people who refuse to take responsibility for voting for Trump and other racist candidates. It's the "Oh but the nasty liburl meeja made me do it because I read something in the Washington Post and it made me cry" defense.  It'd sicken your hole listening to them. They'll use any excuse to justify their racism, and they sure as shit won't take "personal responsibility" for it. Just like they accused Obama of being divisive by provoking their racism with that unreasonably dark skin of his.

This conservative victimhood act is pathetic.
Obama being "too black"? File under "legitimate grievances".

Fascism has always been kitsch and camp. And it has always been filled with paranoid neuroticisms. It is mass projection of insecurities and weaknesses. Among those who carry it out, it is mass projection of criminal behaviour.

It also has a bizarre sort of sexual frustration aspect to it which is tied in with the above.

It's like performance art where people whose whole self identity is tied up in their own worthlessness and sense of inadequacy effectively masturbate in public about being caricatures of what they imagine alpha males to be.

There was a terrible air of sexual inadequacy about that vomit inducing photo op Trump did where he "marched" out of the White House. It was like he was publicly airing his intractable inner conflict. He knows he's a pathetically weak and cowardly man, who is deeply embarrassed about people rightly seeing him as such, especially after the hiding in a bunker, so he staged a creepy, neeurotic and deeply camp set piece to try and convince himself, more than anybody else, that he is strong, masculine, like Vladimir Putin topless on horseback, because that's what he imagines "masculinity" (raaaarrrr) to be (nobody with a functioning brain does).

And I've read few online posts from Trump supporters where it doesn't come across as if they are masturbating furiously behind their keyboard in a similar neurotic, fantastical fashion.

And yet, despite the fantasies of being "strong men" of Trump and his supporters, the fake victimhood complex is ever present, front and centre.

Fake victimhood being about the least masculine and most cowardly, pathetic and weak character trait one can think of.
ha ha inside the mind of  Sid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on June 04, 2020, 06:39:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 01:53:43 AM
To the person and people who called me a fvckin dickhead, B Special, UDR member and a descendant of Captain Boycott for not equating the actions of the rioters and looters with the victims of Bloody Sunday take a look at this clip. I already put up a clip of looters riding around in a stolen Rolls Royce but this takes the (dog) biscuit. Guy broke into a rescue and stole a dog and then supposedly strangled it

Lite Pimp (@litepimp) Tweeted:
Memphis, TN.
.
This is video of the dog before it was killed.
.
Weeeeeeee'reeeeeeee going to fiiiiiiiiiiind youuuuuuuu 🤫
.
#riots #memphis DCProtests #animalcruelty #notpeaceful #protests #DallasProtest #floydgeorge #dogs #dogsoftwitter #dogsofinstagram #ChicagoProtests #animals https://t.co/cDOhM4bhQn

Where is the footage of the guy breaking into the animal rescue? Where is footage of him strangling the dog? Is the dog even dead?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 12:50:31 PM
Former Obama intelligence official guarantees bail for rioter who threw petrol bomb into NYPD vehicle

https://www.google.com/amp/s/freebeacon.com/latest-news/former-obama-intelligence-official-helps-secure-bail-for-molotov-cocktail-throwing-nyc-lawyer/amp/

If it was reported in The NY Times it WaPo I would have put up those links, but so far they don't seem to have reported it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 04, 2020, 01:00:43 PM
When it says "Obama intelligence official" does that mean Obama hand picked the guy personally?? Or did he work for an administration of thousands of people that Obama can't really be held responsible for??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Apparently Richmond, Virginia are going to remove a huge statue of Robert E. Lee. Similar statues are likely to come down elsewhere.

Many conservatives aren't happy. One GOP state senator in VA, Amanda Chase, who is running for governor, said that its an attempt to "erase white history"!

The reconstruction and Jim Crow south was Democratic, a stain on the history of the party, and charge that GOP supporters never tire of wheeling out, despite the much more recent Nixon Southern Strategy and the admission of multiple RNC chairmen that the GOP exploited racial tension in the south to take over that part of the country politically (i.e. the conservative base of the southern Democratic party switched parties to become the conservative base of the GOP). Abraham Lincoln, the man who led the union, freed the slaves and a man, IMO, who was the greatest US president and one of the greatest Americans ever, was a Republican, and indeed, the first GOP president. Yet, today, its conservatives and the GOP who object to the removal of statues of Confederate "heroes", the renaming of schools and public buildings, and who indulge the use of the Confederate battle flag among its supporters, and in one case, an actual state flag (Mississippi). So on the one hand, conservatives never tire of bringing up the Democratic history of racism in the south, but on the other, they're the ones losing it now that the libtards want to correctly remove the monuments and other public symbols honoring that history.

How do they square that circle?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 01:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 12:50:31 PM
Former Obama intelligence official guarantees bail for rioter who threw petrol bomb into NYPD vehicle

https://www.google.com/amp/s/freebeacon.com/latest-news/former-obama-intelligence-official-helps-secure-bail-for-molotov-cocktail-throwing-nyc-lawyer/amp/

If it was reported in The NY Times it WaPo I would have put up those links, but so far they don't seem to have reported it

Did some NY Times/Post reporter stand you up on a date or laugh at your manhood at some point in the past?

You really do have a malign obsession with them. It appears to be the main foundation of your political worldview.

A minor DC paper is hyping this (of course picked up by Fox News), and that's about it.

SHOULD this be news? If so, please explain. The piece even says the (shock, horror) former official (who NO ONE has ever heard of) was bailing out a FRIEND, to the tune of $250K. Not sticking her on a plane out of the country. Not helping her change her identity. Not driving the getaway car. If the friend doesn't show up for court, this person loses the cost of a house in much of the country.

Did Obama even know her? Did she report to him? Was she a prominent staff member, even internally?

My wife is a federal worker. She has worked under Obama and continues to work under Trump. If she ends up murdering me or something someday, will the fact that she worked under either of those men be relevant or newsworthy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
2 cops shot and one stabbed in the neck in Brooklyn  last night , looter stabbed first police officer and took his gun then shot at next 2 when they showed up thankfully  the cops will survive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
2 cops shot and one stabbed in the neck in Brooklyn  last night , looter stabbed first police officer and took his gun then shot at next 2 when they showed up thankfully  the cops will survive.

Just checked the front page of The NY Times online-nada
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
2 cops shot and one stabbed in the neck in Brooklyn  last night , looter stabbed first police officer and took his gun then shot at next 2 when they showed up thankfully  the cops will survive.

Just checked the front page of The NY Times online-nada

Don't worry, its on the main local NY page. None of the injuries were serious.

In case you really give a f**k...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
2 cops shot and one stabbed in the neck in Brooklyn  last night , looter stabbed first police officer and took his gun then shot at next 2 when they showed up thankfully  the cops will survive.

Just checked the front page of The NY Times online-nada

Don't worry, its on the main local NY page. None of the injuries were serious.

In case you really give a f**k...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html)
oh great I'm sure the scum bag was aiming for their hands and was only shaving the cop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on June 04, 2020, 03:26:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 12:41:10 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:02:20 PM

So 24% of 6,000 people thought this........just over 1400.

And this study is linked to the 65m who voted for Trump? Right so.

I get you despise Trump and everything he stands for but there are other things at work here.

Is Trump to blame for the Rodney King riots?
What about the King assassination riots?
62.9 million voted for Trump, that's if you're to believe all his votes were actually legitimate ones.

The point of political science studies and polling is to extrapolate the views of larger groups of people by using representative sampling. And despite what some people might claim, it generally works very well.

You'll have to expand when you say that "there are other things at work here", I don't know what you mean by that.

I'm not sure what function your last two questions serve.

Amazingly enough, there was also massive and righteous anger felt within the black community after MLK was murdered and after the Rodney King verdict.

The same injustice and the same fights continue. Nothing has changed - except that in 1968 and 1992 there weren't presidents who were publicly mobilising white America to act as a racist lynch mob. There is in 2020.

Sid,

Good points,

What US state do you live in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
2 cops shot and one stabbed in the neck in Brooklyn  last night , looter stabbed first police officer and took his gun then shot at next 2 when they showed up thankfully  the cops will survive.

Just checked the front page of The NY Times online-nada

Don't worry, its on the main local NY page. None of the injuries were serious.

In case you really give a f**k...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html)

Did they have anything about the cop who got run over

Kyle Kashuv (@KyleKashuv) Tweeted:
Cop was just run over in NYC. Horriffic.
https://t.co/U8rtDQRMK1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
2 cops shot and one stabbed in the neck in Brooklyn  last night , looter stabbed first police officer and took his gun then shot at next 2 when they showed up thankfully  the cops will survive.

Just checked the front page of The NY Times online-nada

Don't worry, its on the main local NY page. None of the injuries were serious.

In case you really give a f**k...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html)

Did they have anything about the cop who got run over

Kyle Kashuv (@KyleKashuv) Tweeted:
Cop was just run over in NYC. Horriffic.
https://t.co/U8rtDQRMK1

I don't know, but I'm sure you're going through the internet with a fine toothcomb and  will tell us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
2 cops shot and one stabbed in the neck in Brooklyn  last night , looter stabbed first police officer and took his gun then shot at next 2 when they showed up thankfully  the cops will survive.

Just checked the front page of The NY Times online-nada

Don't worry, its on the main local NY page. None of the injuries were serious.

In case you really give a f**k...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html)
oh great I'm sure the scum bag was aiming for their hands and was only shaving the cop.

I've made no comment defending this dirtbag.

He'll go away for a long time. I've no sympathy for him.

The point is, had the injuries been serious, this would have been far higher profile news, and not fuel for whitey's media-based political resentment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on June 04, 2020, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
2 cops shot and one stabbed in the neck in Brooklyn  last night , looter stabbed first police officer and took his gun then shot at next 2 when they showed up thankfully  the cops will survive.

Just checked the front page of The NY Times online-nada

Don't worry, its on the main local NY page. None of the injuries were serious.

In case you really give a f**k...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html)

Did they have anything about the cop who got run over

Kyle Kashuv (@KyleKashuv) Tweeted:
Cop was just run over in NYC. Horriffic.
https://t.co/U8rtDQRMK1

I don't know, but I'm sure you're going through the internet with a fine toothcomb and  will tell us.

J70 as you seem to be an expert on all political matters
Any thoughts on your long-term Democratic congressman Eliot Engel.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 04, 2020, 03:26:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 12:41:10 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 07:02:20 PM

So 24% of 6,000 people thought this........just over 1400.

And this study is linked to the 65m who voted for Trump? Right so.

I get you despise Trump and everything he stands for but there are other things at work here.

Is Trump to blame for the Rodney King riots?
What about the King assassination riots?
62.9 million voted for Trump, that's if you're to believe all his votes were actually legitimate ones.

The point of political science studies and polling is to extrapolate the views of larger groups of people by using representative sampling. And despite what some people might claim, it generally works very well.

You'll have to expand when you say that "there are other things at work here", I don't know what you mean by that.

I'm not sure what function your last two questions serve.

Amazingly enough, there was also massive and righteous anger felt within the black community after MLK was murdered and after the Rodney King verdict.

The same injustice and the same fights continue. Nothing has changed - except that in 1968 and 1992 there weren't presidents who were publicly mobilising white America to act as a racist lynch mob. There is in 2020.

Sid,

Good points,

What US state do you live in.
Are you saying that somebody has to live in the US to have a valid opinion on what's happening in the US and the nature of the ruling regime in the US?

Did you say the same about Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, apartheid South Africa or Northern Ireland?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:56:04 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 04, 2020, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
2 cops shot and one stabbed in the neck in Brooklyn  last night , looter stabbed first police officer and took his gun then shot at next 2 when they showed up thankfully  the cops will survive.

Just checked the front page of The NY Times online-nada

Don't worry, its on the main local NY page. None of the injuries were serious.

In case you really give a f**k...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/nyregion/nypd-officers-shot-brooklyn.html)

Did they have anything about the cop who got run over

Kyle Kashuv (@KyleKashuv) Tweeted:
Cop was just run over in NYC. Horriffic.
https://t.co/U8rtDQRMK1

I don't know, but I'm sure you're going through the internet with a fine toothcomb and  will tell us.

J70 as you seem to be an expert on all political matters
Any thoughts on your long-term Democratic congressman Eliot Engel.

1. I don't and have never claimed to be a expert on political matters.
2. Engel (NOT my congress person BTW) may lose his seat now. No sympathy for him. You can't treat your constituents so dismissively. I'm sure you'll be heartened to hear AOC is backing his primary challenger. I may contribute myself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 01:22:00 PM

Did some NY Times/Post reporter stand you up on a date or laugh at your manhood at some point in the past?

You really do have a malign obsession with them. It appears to be the main foundation of your political worldview.

There are serious problems with the New York Times in particular though. Not only is it seeen as the bastion of establishment journalism, but it behaves as such. Long running establishment media organisations tend to have a subtle bias towards the ruling government and regime (you generally see this with the BBC), and this has been a big problem with the NY Times under Trump. It has consistently framed stories to his advantage, generally stayed away from the stories Trump wants hidden, uncritically reported his lies in a Laura Kuennsberg-style manner, and commissions some absolutely appalling opinion pieces, such as one today from Tom Cotton which calls for the effective abolition of the US constitution and the impostion of full blown authoritarianism.

My critique of the New York Times is nuanced as it does have some very good journalists and journalism, but at an editorial level in particular it has been shockingly soft on Trump, and a major enabler of his.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 01:22:00 PM

Did some NY Times/Post reporter stand you up on a date or laugh at your manhood at some point in the past?

You really do have a malign obsession with them. It appears to be the main foundation of your political worldview.

There are serious problems with the New York Times in particular though. Not only is it seeen as the bastion of establishment journalism, but it behaves as such. Long running establishment media organisations tend to have a subtle bias towards the ruling government and regime (you generally see this with the BBC), and this has been a big problem with the NY Times under Trump. It has consistently framed stories to his advantage, generally stayed away from the stories Trump wants hidden, uncritically reported his lies in a Laura Kuennsberg-style manner, and commissions some absolutely appalling opinion pieces, such as one today from Tom Cotton which calls for the effective abolition of the US constitution and the impostion of full blown authoritarianism.

My critique of the New York Times is nuanced as it does have some very good journalists and journalism, but at an editorial level in particular it has been shockingly soft on Trump, and a major enabler of his.

So whitey thinks they're the devil incarnate, vindictively biased against Trump and conservatism and the left-wing equivalent of the ludicrous, could-be-satirical-if-you-didn't-know-better One America Network; you feel they're too easy on Trump and enable him and his administration in their choice of coverage.

I do agree that Trump and his antics sucks all the air out of the room and do allow a lot of his administration's insidious policies to go relatively uncovered.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 05:13:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 01:22:00 PM

Did some NY Times/Post reporter stand you up on a date or laugh at your manhood at some point in the past?

You really do have a malign obsession with them. It appears to be the main foundation of your political worldview.

There are serious problems with the New York Times in particular though. Not only is it seeen as the bastion of establishment journalism, but it behaves as such. Long running establishment media organisations tend to have a subtle bias towards the ruling government and regime (you generally see this with the BBC), and this has been a big problem with the NY Times under Trump. It has consistently framed stories to his advantage, generally stayed away from the stories Trump wants hidden, uncritically reported his lies in a Laura Kuennsberg-style manner, and commissions some absolutely appalling opinion pieces, such as one today from Tom Cotton which calls for the effective abolition of the US constitution and the impostion of full blown authoritarianism.

My critique of the New York Times is nuanced as it does have some very good journalists and journalism, but at an editorial level in particular it has been shockingly soft on Trump, and a major enabler of his.

So whitey thinks they're the devil incarnate, vindictively biased against Trump and conservatism and the left-wing equivalent of the ludicrous, could-be-satirical-if-you-didn't-know-better One America Network; you feel they're too easy on Trump and enable him and his administration in their choice of coverage.

I do agree that Trump and his antics sucks all the air out of the room and do allow a lot of his administration's insidious policies to go relatively uncovered.
They're too deferent. By deferent, I simply mean that they tend to shy away from examining the really hard issues and asking the really hard questions which make a difference to ordinary people's lives. It's a problem I find with a lot of establishment US media and establishment media in general. Journalism should afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted and too often the New York Times just runs establishment framing which works against that. They're far from the only offender obviously, but in the US are the most notable offender.

You have to examine the structural frameworks through which this happens. The last two decades have seen swingeing cuts across the board in traditional journalism. This leads to a reduction in investigations, more opinion (opinion is about reaction), and a reduction in local news. All of these play into the hands of corruption and kleptocracy.

It also makes it harder for good people to get involved in journalism, those who are in it for the right reasons rather than those who are focussed on narrow careerisim. To get a foothold in national media now, and this is not just restricted to the US but is the case in the UK and Ireland and presumably most countries, you basically have to be privileged, or pretty well off. You need to have enough money to pay expensive course fees, to live during unpaid internships, you will probably need connections to even get an unpaid internship, you have to live in one of the major urban centres - and if you don't actually come from one of those major urban centres, that costs serious money. Being privileged or comfortable does not necessarily mean that one cannot be a good journalist, but it means that a much higher proportion of people entering it come from the same class as those they are supposed to be holding accountable. In general that tends to lead to stasis, inertia, a narrow career focus, and a lack of real curiousity or understanding of the real problems facing society and especially the marginalised. It means less diversity in journalism. It means that journalists in general may be more easily fobbed off by the powerful and a sort of revolving door type situation can emerge betweeen the worlds of politics, business and journalism, where they move in the same circles and unhealthy relationships emerge. Deference leads to false balance, where the "balance" is not operating in good faith and is pure disinformation.

The 24 hour nature of television news networks plays into Trump's hands, and the hands of demagogues in general. Why? Because they're "entertaining", and 24 hour news thrives on entertainment. Trump has run his candidacy and regime as a giant reality television show. Chaos sells. And the soap opera nature of it conceals the kleptocratic criminality of it with court intrigue and spectacle. Soap opera blinds people, confuses them, and destroys their concentration spans. Censorship through noise.

That isn't to say that cable news in the US is universally terrible - it isn't - Rachel Maddow in particular is a vital show - but the soap opera aspect of cable news far too often lets the real issues be obscured. And I'm only talking about good faith operators who live in a reality based world there. Fox is pure poison and an outright agent of fascism. US media has reached the stage that pretty much any outlet which has a pro-Republican editorial line now exists in a twilight zone of naked kleptocratic, racist and science-denying disinformation and propaganda, because Republican politics in general has made the choice that that's the zone it wants to exist in.









Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 05:33:46 PM
So J70-they have 3 articles relating to the police on the main webpage (2/3 have an unfavorable undertone IMHO), but not a word  about the 3 guys who got injured last night or the Attorneys who made bail for petrol bombing a cruiser and inciting others to do likewise.

You will probably disagree, but to me, they are blatantly trying to drive an anti police narrative here

Do you not think that the 2 stories which make the rioters/looters look bad should be given equal prominence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 04, 2020, 06:02:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 05:33:46 PM
So J70-they have 3 articles relating to the police on the main webpage (2/3 have an unfavorable undertone IMHO), but not a word  about the 3 guys who got injured last night or the Attorneys who made bail for petrol bombing a cruiser and inciting others to do likewise.

You will probably disagree, but to me, they are blatantly trying to drive an anti police narrative here

Do you not think that the 2 stories which make the rioters/looters look bad should be given equal prominence?

If a judge allows bail I don't see why posting bail is a problem
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 06:21:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 06:02:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 05:33:46 PM
So J70-they have 3 articles relating to the police on the main webpage (2/3 have an unfavorable undertone IMHO), but not a word  about the 3 guys who got injured last night or the Attorneys who made bail for petrol bombing a cruiser and inciting others to do likewise.

You will probably disagree, but to me, they are blatantly trying to drive an anti police narrative here

Do you not think that the 2 stories which make the rioters/looters look bad should be given equal prominence?

If a judge allows bail I don't see why posting bail is a problem

Bail was opposed by the prosecutors

These 2  were Ivy League educated attorneys who if they have an active law license have a code of ethics to abide by

Firebombed a cop car and were distributing petrol bombs to others

Extremely serious charges
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 04, 2020, 06:31:21 PM
White House bricks story, um, constructed..

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/ (https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 06:45:21 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 04, 2020, 06:31:21 PM
White House bricks story, um, constructed..

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/ (https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/)
Has the Trump candidacy/regime or anybody conncted to it even once, in five years, seriously acknowedged that far right groups or ideology are a serious threat?

Because I cannot remember one such instance.

I wonder why that is.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 04, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Bad idea to alienate your base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 05:33:46 PM
So J70-they have 3 articles relating to the police on the main webpage (2/3 have an unfavorable undertone IMHO), but not a word  about the 3 guys who got injured last night or the Attorneys who made bail for petrol bombing a cruiser and inciting others to do likewise.

You will probably disagree, but to me, they are blatantly trying to drive an anti police narrative here

Do you not think that the 2 stories which make the rioters/looters look bad should be given equal prominence?

Of course you think they are trying to drive an anti-police narrative. You go purposely looking to get your fix of "the NY Times are biased liberal scum" and you see everything through that lens. Would 1/3 articles having an unfavourable tone be more to your liking?

Cops getting minor injuries on the job in NYC is a daily occurrence, hazard of the job, and usually wouldn't even feature at the top of the NY section. In this case it did because it was a rioter who grabbed their gun and thus was newsworthy.

Right now, two of the four lead headlines are about the cops, one in which DeBlasio and Cuomo defend them, one in which DeBlasio is blasted for their tactics.

And the lawyers have received plenty of coverage in the news here. If you feel they and their "connection" to the Obama administration should be THE headline news, you should probably stick to your right wing sources.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 06:45:21 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 04, 2020, 06:31:21 PM
White House bricks story, um, constructed..

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/ (https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/)
Has the Trump candidacy/regime or anybody conncted to it even once, in five years, seriously acknowedged that far right groups or ideology are a serious threat?

Because I cannot remember one such instance.

I wonder why that is.
He said that the armed terrorist scum who invaded some State Parliament (Michigan?) were "good people" ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 04, 2020, 07:42:36 PM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 06:02:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 05:33:46 PM
So J70-they have 3 articles relating to the police on the main webpage (2/3 have an unfavorable undertone IMHO), but not a word  about the 3 guys who got injured last night or the Attorneys who made bail for petrol bombing a cruiser and inciting others to do likewise.

You will probably disagree, but to me, they are blatantly trying to drive an anti police narrative here

Do you not think that the 2 stories which make the rioters/looters look bad should be given equal prominence?

If a judge allows bail I don't see why posting bail is a problem

Bail was opposed by the prosecutors
-- That's OK, prosecutors are allowed to oppose bail
These 2  were Ivy League educated attorneys who if they have an active law license have a code of ethics to abide by
-- Does this code of ethics say that they are never allowed to post bail?
Firebombed a cop car and were distributing petrol bombs to others
-- Which are very serious charges
Extremely serious charges
-- OK, I'll give you extremely serious charges

And the judge took all that into account and set bail, which means that if someone posts bail the defendants are allowed to leave custody until the next hearing or trail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 08:05:31 PM
Im not 100 % certain but an attorney admitted to the bar would be regarded as an officer of the court and would be expected to display a higher standard of behaviour than a regular civilian
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 04, 2020, 08:07:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 08:05:31 PM
Im not 100 % certain but an attorney admitted to the bar would be regarded as an officer of the court and would be expected to display a higher standard of behaviour than a regular civilian

Agreed, I assume that when they posted bail they did so in accordance with the law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 08:08:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 08:05:31 PM
Im not 100 % certain but an attorney admitted to the bar would be regarded as an officer of the court and would be expected to display a higher standard of behaviour than a regular civilian

And I would expect both will face repercussions career-wise... after they get out of prison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 04, 2020, 08:17:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 08:05:31 PM
Im not 100 % certain but an attorney admitted to the bar would be regarded as an officer of the court and would be expected to display a higher standard of behaviour than a regular civilian

Apologies, I read your first post quickly, I though you were complaining about attorneys posting bail for the petrol bombers, rather than actually being the petrol bombers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 04, 2020, 08:20:52 PM
So back to your claim about the New York Times not covering the story

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anytimes.com+Colinford+Mattis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 08:33:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 06:45:21 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 04, 2020, 06:31:21 PM
White House bricks story, um, constructed..

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/ (https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/)
Has the Trump candidacy/regime or anybody conncted to it even once, in five years, seriously acknowedged that far right groups or ideology are a serious threat?

Because I cannot remember one such instance.

I wonder why that is.
He said that the armed terrorist scum who invaded some State Parliament (Michigan?) were "good people" ::)
open carry state which means you can carry a weapon in public once legally purchased  it is visible and you ain't pointing it at anyone . I bet not one felony arrest in the bunch .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 08:38:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 08:33:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 04, 2020, 06:45:21 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 04, 2020, 06:31:21 PM
White House bricks story, um, constructed..

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/ (https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/white-house-forced-retract-claim-viral-videos-prove-antifa-plotting-violence/)
Has the Trump candidacy/regime or anybody conncted to it even once, in five years, seriously acknowedged that far right groups or ideology are a serious threat?

Because I cannot remember one such instance.

I wonder why that is.
He said that the armed terrorist scum who invaded some State Parliament (Michigan?) were "good people" ::)
open carry state which means you can carry a weapon in public once legally purchased  it is visible and you ain't pointing it at anyone . I bet not one felony arrest in the bunch .

Sometimes the law is an ass.

Looks at this f**king gobshite ordering lunch in NC.

(https://i.insider.com/5eb99ca148d92c14c0274a44?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ardtole on June 04, 2020, 08:45:00 PM
That is nothing short of mental.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 04, 2020, 08:48:46 PM
Just in case the police come along with an armoured car.

What on earth is the justification for anyone having that?!?

The same lot are nowhere to be seen right when the scenario envisaged by the founding fathers that resulted in the 2nd amendment is here. A government oppressing its people.


At which point you wonder, whats the point of the 2nd amendment?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on June 04, 2020, 08:54:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 06:14:57 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on June 03, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 10:48:57 AM
Just watched a video of looters in a what looked like a Nike store, dirty scumbags

Why are you concerned about people lifting a few pairs of shoes that cost $5 to get made in China? I'd rather it didn't happen but not high on my list of priorities compared to police killing people.

So are you not concerned or agreeing with looters?

And what have looters got to do with peaceful protesters? I seen loads of white people heading into the shop multiple times, scumbags.

If you see the differentiation fair enough, I might have picked you up wrong. For too many the looting is used as a brush to tar all protesters.

Stop police murdering people and then have a president who isn't encouraging police brutality as a response to police murder, once we get that sorted if there is still looting we can address it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 08:20:52 PM
So back to your claim about the New York Times not covering the story

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anytimes.com+Colinford+Mattis

When I google it and it doesn't  come up (petrol bomber bail attorney ny times)

But here's  what I said "but so far they don't seem to have reported it"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 04, 2020, 08:48:46 PM
Just in case the police come along with an armoured car.

What on earth is the justification for anyone having that?!?

The same lot are nowhere to be seen right when the scenario envisaged by the founding fathers that resulted in the 2nd amendment is here. A government oppressing its people.


At which point you wonder, whats the point of the 2nd amendment?

What kind of normal person would want to buy something like that?

In what normal setting would one even be able to buy something like that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on June 04, 2020, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 04, 2020, 08:48:46 PM
Just in case the police come along with an armoured car.

What on earth is the justification for anyone having that?!?

The same lot are nowhere to be seen right when the scenario envisaged by the founding fathers that resulted in the 2nd amendment is here. A government oppressing its people.


At which point you wonder, whats the point of the 2nd amendment?

What kind of normal person would want to buy something like that?

In what normal setting would one even be able to buy something like that?

It could be a prop - his mate with him had a wooden replica of a 50 caliber machine gun

Yeah here are the patriots in question, included one chap who is evidently on his way to a massive plumbing project and is asking a black family for directions.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article242628341.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 04, 2020, 09:11:00 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on June 04, 2020, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 04, 2020, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 04, 2020, 08:48:46 PM
Just in case the police come along with an armoured car.

What on earth is the justification for anyone having that?!?

The same lot are nowhere to be seen right when the scenario envisaged by the founding fathers that resulted in the 2nd amendment is here. A government oppressing its people.


At which point you wonder, whats the point of the 2nd amendment?

What kind of normal person would want to buy something like that?

In what normal setting would one even be able to buy something like that?

It could be a prop - his mate with him had a wooden replica of a 50 caliber machine gun

Yeah here are the patriots in question, included one chap who is evidently on his way to a massive plumbing project and is asking a black family for directions.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article242628341.html

Yep... gobshites!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on June 04, 2020, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 08:20:52 PM
So back to your claim about the New York Times not covering the story

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anytimes.com+Colinford+Mattis

When I google it and it doesn't  come up (petrol bomber bail attorney ny times)

But here's  what I said "but so far they don't seem to have reported it"

Damn immigrants, you need to learn to speak American whitey. Petrol bomb = molotov cocktail
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 04, 2020, 09:50:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 08:20:52 PM
So back to your claim about the New York Times not covering the story

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anytimes.com+Colinford+Mattis

When I google it and it doesn't  come up (petrol bomber bail attorney ny times)

But here's  what I said "but so far they don't seem to have reported it"

Petrol bomber? Now I know you are being a dick. How many times have you ever heard a Molotov cocktail being referred to as a petrol bomb in the US?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 10:04:00 PM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 09:50:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 08:20:52 PM
So back to your claim about the New York Times not covering the story

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anytimes.com+Colinford+Mattis

When I google it and it doesn't  come up (petrol bomber bail attorney ny times)

But here's  what I said "but so far they don't seem to have reported it"

Petrol bomber? Now I know you are being a dick. How many times have you ever heard a Molotov cocktail being referred to as a petrol bomb in the US?

I did other searches that produced nothing

I also used ( salmah rizvi attorney bail).

I have also been on The NY Times homepage several times per day over the past week and that article never showed up on the homepage.....whereas all the stories regarding police "misconduct" did ( which was the point I was making to J70)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 04, 2020, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 10:04:00 PM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 09:50:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 08:20:52 PM
So back to your claim about the New York Times not covering the story

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anytimes.com+Colinford+Mattis

When I google it and it doesn't  come up (petrol bomber bail attorney ny times)

But here's  what I said "but so far they don't seem to have reported it"

Petrol bomber? Now I know you are being a dick. How many times have you ever heard a Molotov cocktail being referred to as a petrol bomb in the US?

I did other searches that produced nothing

I also used ( salmah rizvi attorney bail).

I have also been on The NY Times homepage several times per day over the past week and that article never showed up on the homepage.....whereas all the stories regarding police "misconduct" did ( which was the point I was making to J70)

Here are 4 New York Times stories about the case or that mention the case. The fact that you are crap at Google doesn't mean that the New York Times is covering it up.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/06/01/us/ap-us-america-protests-firebombing-charges.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/nyregion/nyc-protests-lawyer-molotov-cocktail.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/nyregion/police-cars-nyc-protests.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/05/31/us/ap-us-police-death-protests-nyc-12th-ld-writethru.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 04, 2020, 10:29:41 PM
That story was not on The front page of The NY Times Website

Multiple stories per day disparaging law enforcement were

And there was no mention of the 2 cops shot and 1 stabbed in the front page today either
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 04, 2020, 10:43:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 10:29:41 PM
That story was not on The front page of The NY Times Website

Multiple stories per day disparaging law enforcement were

There are multiple stories per day about the violence as well. Just because there is one particular story that you couldn't find does not mean that the New York Times is covering anything up.

Here is today's front page of the print edition https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/06/04/nytfrontpage/scan.pdf

This story is on the front page https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/nyregion/george-floyd-bronx-protests-looting.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
The mayor of Los Angeles says he will cut 100-150 m of budget to police , not a very rational step after what we have seen in last 2 weeks . Appeasing the mob .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 11:44:17 PM
What "mob"?
White polismen who kill black suspects?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 12:54:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
The mayor of Los Angeles says he will cut 100-150 m of budget to police , not a very rational step after what we have seen in last 2 weeks . Appeasing the mob .
A much more rational step would be to disband the mob that is the LAPD rather than appease them.

https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/1268673244715859968

ABC7 Eyewitness News
@ABC7
SHOCKING VIDEO: LAPD officers seen striking protesters with batons in Fairfax district confrontation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 05, 2020, 01:00:51 AM
Not likely of course, but here's an interesting article on a city that did just that (and then started a smaller less aggressive police force).  https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ (https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 01:42:08 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 12:54:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
The mayor of Los Angeles says he will cut 100-150 m of budget to police , not a very rational step after what we have seen in last 2 weeks . Appeasing the mob .
A much more rational step would be to disband the mob that is the LAPD rather than appease them.

https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/1268673244715859968

ABC7 Eyewitness News
@ABC7
SHOCKING VIDEO: LAPD officers seen striking protesters with batons in Fairfax district confrontation
if you lived in la and someone was breaking into your house who would you call ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:44:49 AM
Quote from: dec on June 04, 2020, 10:43:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 04, 2020, 10:29:41 PM
That story was not on The front page of The NY Times Website

Multiple stories per day disparaging law enforcement were

There are multiple stories per day about the violence as well. Just because there is one particular story that you couldn't find does not mean that the New York Times is covering anything up.

Here is today's front page of the print edition https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/06/04/nytfrontpage/scan.pdf

This story is on the front page https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/nyregion/george-floyd-bronx-protests-looting.html

You're wasting your time. He's obsessed.

He can add the story of the cops getting injured to the Joe Biden sexual assault and the Bernie Sanders articles he will wheel out every few weeks between now and the election to convince us all that the New York Times and liberals are evil and conservatism is, somehow, therefore the way.

.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:55:14 AM
The NY Times is so intent on pissing all over the police that they have, to date... wait for it... ZERO articles about Officer Murashea Bovell, a whistleblower who kept records of all kinds of terrible misconduct over the past few years in the Mount Vernon police. Mount Vernon literally borders the Bronx to the north and is closer to Manhattan than many parts of Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island. The Gothamist, an NPR-afilitated local news website carried the story yesterday, but the Times has yet to bite. Didn't even make it to the bottom of the Metro section yet.

https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed (https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 02:02:02 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 05, 2020, 01:00:51 AM
Not likely of course, but here's an interesting article on a city that did just that (and then started a smaller less aggressive police force).  https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ (https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/)

Wow!

Camden used to be notorious, a basic no-go area 15 years ago. If what the article says is true, it does offer promise.

I see a reference in there to DeBlasio and the ending of stop-and-frisk. Come to think of it, there hasn't been much word of that lately at all, after all the doomsday predictions up until a year or two ago. It was resurrected for a few weeks last Christmas after a young female student was killed by young black teenagers outside Columbia University in a robbery gone wrong, but little since.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 05, 2020, 02:25:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 11:44:17 PM
What "mob"?
White polismen who kill black suspects?

https://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-me-g-lapd-race-20150319-htmlstory.html

Sometimes I truly get the impression that Irish (and most other european nationalities tbf) people are truly out of touch with reality in America despite having very strong opinions on how America should do things. I do understand this I was that person
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 02:32:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 01:42:08 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 12:54:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 04, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
The mayor of Los Angeles says he will cut 100-150 m of budget to police , not a very rational step after what we have seen in last 2 weeks . Appeasing the mob .
A much more rational step would be to disband the mob that is the LAPD rather than appease them.

https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/1268673244715859968

ABC7 Eyewitness News
@ABC7
SHOCKING VIDEO: LAPD officers seen striking protesters with batons in Fairfax district confrontation
if you lived in la and someone was breaking into your house who would you call ?
If I was a black person in LA in such a situation I'd sooner call Ghostbusters than I'd call the LAPD.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 02:33:18 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 05, 2020, 02:25:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 11:44:17 PM
What "mob"?
White polismen who kill black suspects?

https://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-me-g-lapd-race-20150319-htmlstory.html

Sometimes I truly get the impression that Irish (and most other european nationalities tbf) people are truly out of touch with reality in America despite having very strong opinions on how America should do things. I do understand this I was that person
Perhaps you should consider it may be yourself who is truly out of touch with reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 02:42:02 AM
Reality:

https://twitter.com/WBFO/status/1268712530358292484

WBFO
@WBFO
Just about an hour ago, police officers shove man in Niagara Square to the ground (WARNING: Graphic). Video from:
@MikeDesmondWBFO
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 05, 2020, 03:12:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 02:02:02 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 05, 2020, 01:00:51 AM
Not likely of course, but here's an interesting article on a city that did just that (and then started a smaller less aggressive police force).  https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ (https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/)

Wow!

Camden used to be notorious, a basic no-go area 15 years ago. If what the article says is true, it does offer promise.

I see a reference in there to DeBlasio and the ending of stop-and-frisk. Come to think of it, there hasn't been much word of that lately at all, after all the doomsday predictions up until a year or two ago. It was resurrected for a few weeks last Christmas after a young female student was killed by young black teenagers outside Columbia University in a robbery gone wrong, but little since.

Yeah, between that and the budget cuts to LAPD, there might be hope of rethinking policing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 03:26:12 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 05, 2020, 03:12:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 02:02:02 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 05, 2020, 01:00:51 AM
Not likely of course, but here's an interesting article on a city that did just that (and then started a smaller less aggressive police force).  https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ (https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/)

Wow!

Camden used to be notorious, a basic no-go area 15 years ago. If what the article says is true, it does offer promise.

I see a reference in there to DeBlasio and the ending of stop-and-frisk. Come to think of it, there hasn't been much word of that lately at all, after all the doomsday predictions up until a year or two ago. It was resurrected for a few weeks last Christmas after a young female student was killed by young black teenagers outside Columbia University in a robbery gone wrong, but little since.

Yeah, between that and the budget cuts to LAPD, there might be hope of rethinking policing.
sounds like Minneapolis are breaking up there pd to set up a different  type of entity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 05, 2020, 03:28:47 AM
Might work too if they just get rid of the racist murderers and their enablers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omaghjoe on June 05, 2020, 05:05:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 02:33:18 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 05, 2020, 02:25:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 11:44:17 PM
What "mob"?
White polismen who kill black suspects?

https://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-me-g-lapd-race-20150319-htmlstory.html

Sometimes I truly get the impression that Irish (and most other european nationalities tbf) people are truly out of touch with reality in America despite having very strong opinions on how America should do things. I do understand this I was that person
Perhaps you should consider it may be yourself who is truly out of touch with reality.

I have considered that... but then I also consider the homogeneous simplistic way that I used to view the states vs the recognition of the complex diverse 50 states that I am actually living in and you can see which version I'd prob trust more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 05, 2020, 08:00:56 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 05, 2020, 05:05:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 02:33:18 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 05, 2020, 02:25:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 11:44:17 PM
What "mob"?
White polismen who kill black suspects?

https://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-me-g-lapd-race-20150319-htmlstory.html

Sometimes I truly get the impression that Irish (and most other european nationalities tbf) people are truly out of touch with reality in America despite having very strong opinions on how America should do things. I do understand this I was that person
Perhaps you should consider it may be yourself who is truly out of touch with reality.

I have considered that... but then I also consider the homogeneous simplistic way that I used to view the states vs the recognition of the complex diverse 50 states that I am actually living in and you can see which version I'd prob trust more.

You're wasting your time Joe, he's obsessed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 05, 2020, 11:27:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:55:14 AM
The NY Times is so intent on pissing all over the police that they have, to date... wait for it... ZERO articles about Officer Murashea Bovell, a whistleblower who kept records of all kinds of terrible misconduct over the past few years in the Mount Vernon police. Mount Vernon literally borders the Bronx to the north and is closer to Manhattan than many parts of Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island. The Gothamist, an NPR-afilitated local news website carried the story yesterday, but the Times has yet to bite. Didn't even make it to the bottom of the Metro section yet.

https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed (https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed)

J70....did you see what happened with Tom Cottons op ed?  Makes the NT Times look seriously stupid

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/501249-nyt-says-tom-cotton-editorial-did-not-meet-our-standards%3famp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 01:07:36 PM
https://twitter.com/ChiefHarteau/status/1267460683408564225 (https://twitter.com/ChiefHarteau/status/1267460683408564225)

Is there any hope in the US with someone like this as a police chief?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:19:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 11:27:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:55:14 AM
The NY Times is so intent on pissing all over the police that they have, to date... wait for it... ZERO articles about Officer Murashea Bovell, a whistleblower who kept records of all kinds of terrible misconduct over the past few years in the Mount Vernon police. Mount Vernon literally borders the Bronx to the north and is closer to Manhattan than many parts of Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island. The Gothamist, an NPR-afilitated local news website carried the story yesterday, but the Times has yet to bite. Didn't even make it to the bottom of the Metro section yet.

https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed (https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed)

J70....did you see what happened with Tom Cottons op ed?  Makes the NT Times look seriously stupid

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/501249-nyt-says-tom-cotton-editorial-did-not-meet-our-standards%3famp

Yes, it does. The world wasn't waiting to hear from Tom Cotton so urgently that they couldn't have demanded some changes first, instead of rushing it to print without proper review.

And if he refused, I'm sure there were plenty of other papers who'd take a piece from a prominent US Senator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:24:39 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 01:07:36 PM
https://twitter.com/ChiefHarteau/status/1267460683408564225 (https://twitter.com/ChiefHarteau/status/1267460683408564225)

Is there any hope in the US with someone like this as a police chief?

He's not a police chief. He's a union boss. If this guy and the ones in NYC are any guide, it looks like you have to be a complete and utter tosser to ascend to the role.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 01:26:22 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 05, 2020, 05:05:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 02:33:18 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 05, 2020, 02:25:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 11:44:17 PM
What "mob"?
White polismen who kill black suspects?

https://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-me-g-lapd-race-20150319-htmlstory.html

Sometimes I truly get the impression that Irish (and most other european nationalities tbf) people are truly out of touch with reality in America despite having very strong opinions on how America should do things. I do understand this I was that person
Perhaps you should consider it may be yourself who is truly out of touch with reality.

I have considered that... but then I also consider the homogeneous simplistic way that I used to view the states vs the recognition of the complex diverse 50 states that I am actually living in and you can see which version I'd prob trust more.
So by your own admission, you've replaced believing in one straw man with believing a different one.

Just because you used to think a certain way doesn't mean you should assume that others do. Unfortunately, you do.

And thus you make the mistake of confusing cold hard, truth for "simplism", and simplism for nuance.

The zeal of the convert.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:19:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 11:27:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:55:14 AM
The NY Times is so intent on pissing all over the police that they have, to date... wait for it... ZERO articles about Officer Murashea Bovell, a whistleblower who kept records of all kinds of terrible misconduct over the past few years in the Mount Vernon police. Mount Vernon literally borders the Bronx to the north and is closer to Manhattan than many parts of Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island. The Gothamist, an NPR-afilitated local news website carried the story yesterday, but the Times has yet to bite. Didn't even make it to the bottom of the Metro section yet.

https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed (https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed)

J70....did you see what happened with Tom Cottons op ed?  Makes the NT Times look seriously stupid

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/501249-nyt-says-tom-cotton-editorial-did-not-meet-our-standards%3famp

Yes, it does. The world wasn't waiting to hear from Tom Cotton so urgently that they couldn't have demanded some changes first, instead of rushing it to print without proper review.

And if he refused, I'm sure there were plenty of other papers who'd take a piece from a prominent US Senator.
The Cotton article was an exemplar of everything I've been saying about the New York Times and its false "balance" and enabling of fascism.

Any "argument" for publishing that "opinion article" could be used just as easily to "justify" the publication of an "opinion article" calling into the question the existence of the Holocaust or arguing for the reintroduction of slavery.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 01:42:23 PM
https://pressrun.media/p/why-new-york-times-and-facebook-employees

Why New York Times and Facebook employees are rebelling
Fed up with Trump kowtowing

Eric Boehlert

Even during a pandemic that has unleashed historic unemployment and at a time when media jobs are vanishing at a stunning rate, some brave employees at Facebook and New York Times have had enough, and risked their careers by calling out their employers over the way they constantly bow down to authoritarian Republican power in the age of Trump. Having ignored outside criticism for years, Facebook and the Times now have to deal with internal revolts that are much harder to dismiss. This time, the howls of protest are coming from inside the building.

In both cases, the worker rebellions are being fueled by deep anger over corporate behavior that emboldens Trump's divisive and hateful ways. At Facebook, the resentment stems from how the social media giant has given Trump a green light to lie and use the global social media platform as a misinformation weapon this campaign season. Facebook has also allowed itself to become a sewer for racist content during a time of national disturbance and protest.

At the Times, the paper this week published an Op-Ed from a Republican senator who echoed Trump's rhetoric and basically urged that martial law be invoked, using the full force of the U.S. military as a way to silence nationwide protests that erupted in the wake of a Minneapolis policeman murdering an unconscious black man, George Floyd, by kneeling on his neck.

The stunning column, which urged the U.S. Army be sent into cities over the objection of local mayors and governors, came not only at a time of widespread abuse as peaceful protesters are beaten and tear gassed nationwide, but at a time when journalists are being targeted for unlawful assault by law enforcement.

Twitter immediately lit up the Times with criticism, which is not unusual given how often the paper strikes an errant chord in the Trump era. But then the unexpected happened —Times staffers started posting their own protests. Nikole Hannah-Jones, a correspondent for The New York Times Magazine, tweeted, "As a black woman, as a journalist, as an American, I am deeply ashamed that we ran this." Others cited the Cotton column and tweeted, "Running this puts Black @NYTimes staff in danger." The NewsGuild of New York, the union that represents many Times journalists, stressed in a statement that the Op-Ed "promotes hate" during this "particularly vulnerable moment in American history."

Responding to the immediate internal outcry, editorial page editor James Bennet insisted that in an open debate it's important to hear all sides and that the Times has an obligation to include many voices, even if they're unpopular. (Question: Would the daily run an op-ed supporting violence against law enforcement?) Basically, Bennet washed his hands of the decision-making process and suggested that the of course, the paper had to publish a Republican senator.

Bennet was initially supported by the newspaper's publisher. But then by Thursday evening, Times leadership issued a statement saying the Cotton piece had been "rushed" to publication and had not met the paper's standards. (So why did the publisher support its publication?)

Here's what helped doom the Times this week — the idea that anything a GOP senator puts his/her name on automatically means it's important and mainstream. The Times for years has actively refused to acknowledge GOP's dangerous, radical turn, and it started during Barack Obama's presidency.

Today, that timidity has transferred to its Trump coverage. Example: Last year the Times published a peculiar article about how White House communications director Hope Hicks faced an "existential choice" of whether or not to comply with a congressional subpoena. (That's not how subpoenas work.) Just last winter the Times compared Trump, whose presidency is defined by naked corruption, with Sen. Elizabeth Warren, suggesting they're both "populists."

Meanwhile over at Facebook, CEO Mark Zuckerberg can't stop capitulating to Trump and his message of violence and civil unrest. Last week as protests erupted in the streets, Zuckerberg insisted any type of message from the White House that encouraged violence would by removed by Facebook. Then when Trump did exactly that ("when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you!") Zuckerberg retreated and announced Facebook would take no action to remove the message.

On Monday, Facebook engineer Timothy Aveni publicly announced he was quitting in protest: "Facebook will keep moving the goalposts every time Trump escalates, finding excuse after excuse not to act on increasingly dangerous rhetoric." That same day hundreds of Facebook employees staged a virtual walk-out, in protest of the Zuckerberg's decision on Trump's hate posts.

Soon, dozens of influential early employees of Facebook, including the company's first chief of communications, as well as designers, engineers and policy executives, publicly condemned Zuckerberg's refusal to apply Facebook's clearly stated content guidelines to Trump. "We are devastated to see something we built and something we believed would make the world a better place lose its way so profoundly," they wrote.

It's true that the number of voices speaking out this week remain relatively small considering how large Facebook and the Times are. But it's important to understand the culture, especially at the Times, where defending the paper from criticism is considered an employment prerequisite. In recent years, a cult-like defense has permeated the newsroom, where staffers remained convinced Times critics were naïve and misguided. So for staffers this week to speak up is quite unusual.

The sad truth is that both Facebook and the Paper of Record appear to be deeply confused institutions right now in terms of how they deal with Trump. They both appear to be willing victims of Trump's bullying. Facebook has been running scared of the GOP since 2016 when the party launched an orchestrated campaign about how the company was "silencing" Republican voices, complete with Congressional hearings. Zuckerberg has been fixed in a permanent bowing position every since.

As for the Times, the paper does lots of amazing reporting, particularly during the pandemic and covering a nation in revolt. But when it comes to dealing with Trump and being honest with readers about his dangerous and radical ways, the Times and its D.C. bureau have been helping boost Trump for years. How else do you explain the paper's nonsensical policy of not calling Trump a "liar"? The newsroom is forbidden from calling Trump a liar, but the Times published a GOP screed basically arguing in favor of martial law?

No wonder staffers are pissed off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on June 05, 2020, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 05, 2020, 05:05:36 AM
I have considered that... but then I also consider the homogeneous simplistic way that I used to view the states vs the recognition of the complex diverse 50 states that I am actually living in and you can see which version I'd prob trust more.

Hold on, you live in all 50 states???  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 05, 2020, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:19:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 11:27:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:55:14 AM
The NY Times is so intent on pissing all over the police that they have, to date... wait for it... ZERO articles about Officer Murashea Bovell, a whistleblower who kept records of all kinds of terrible misconduct over the past few years in the Mount Vernon police. Mount Vernon literally borders the Bronx to the north and is closer to Manhattan than many parts of Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island. The Gothamist, an NPR-afilitated local news website carried the story yesterday, but the Times has yet to bite. Didn't even make it to the bottom of the Metro section yet.

https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed (https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed)

J70....did you see what happened with Tom Cottons op ed?  Makes the NT Times look seriously stupid

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/501249-nyt-says-tom-cotton-editorial-did-not-meet-our-standards%3famp

Yes, it does. The world wasn't waiting to hear from Tom Cotton so urgently that they couldn't have demanded some changes first, instead of rushing it to print without proper review.

And if he refused, I'm sure there were plenty of other papers who'd take a piece from a prominent US Senator.

It was thoroughly vetted and edited according to Cotton. Hopefully he will release some emails

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/tom-cotton-new-york-times-op-ed-inside-story/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 02:15:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:19:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 11:27:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 01:55:14 AM
The NY Times is so intent on pissing all over the police that they have, to date... wait for it... ZERO articles about Officer Murashea Bovell, a whistleblower who kept records of all kinds of terrible misconduct over the past few years in the Mount Vernon police. Mount Vernon literally borders the Bronx to the north and is closer to Manhattan than many parts of Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island. The Gothamist, an NPR-afilitated local news website carried the story yesterday, but the Times has yet to bite. Didn't even make it to the bottom of the Metro section yet.

https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed (https://gothamist.com/news/mount-vernon-police-tapes-innocent-people-were-framed)

J70....did you see what happened with Tom Cottons op ed?  Makes the NT Times look seriously stupid

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/501249-nyt-says-tom-cotton-editorial-did-not-meet-our-standards%3famp

Yes, it does. The world wasn't waiting to hear from Tom Cotton so urgently that they couldn't have demanded some changes first, instead of rushing it to print without proper review.

And if he refused, I'm sure there were plenty of other papers who'd take a piece from a prominent US Senator.

It was thoroughly vetted and edited according to Cotton. Hopefully he will release some emails

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/tom-cotton-new-york-times-op-ed-inside-story/amp/

We'll see what comes of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 02:20:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2020, 10:17:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 03, 2020, 09:55:18 PM
Josh Caplan (@joshdcaplan) Tweeted:
Road Rage: Man with 'Wolverine Claw' Confronts Teens Who Reportedly Threw Objects at His Car https://t.co/SNePv2ekfo

J70....this guy is from your neck of the woods. Is he a mate of yours?

Guy looks deranged. What the f**k was that weapon?? Why would you have something like that in your car?? ;D

No doubt mouthing off at the teenage protesters, they throw something at him in response, then he does a ridiculous u-turn on a busy flyover (I know it well) and chases a bunch of sixteen year old girls and boys with some bizarre knife array.

Your man from the other day has been arrested whitey.

Not surprised! f**king eejit. And not the first time he's been in trouble with the law.

https://queenspost.com/man-who-attacked-protesters-in-whitestone-arrested-nypd (https://queenspost.com/man-who-attacked-protesters-in-whitestone-arrested-nypd)
https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/queens-wolverine-man-has-long-list-of-arrests/ (https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/queens-wolverine-man-has-long-list-of-arrests/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 02:29:47 PM
Jounalism is supposed to be about afflicting the comfortable, and comforting the afflicted.

The essential problem with the New York Times ownership, management and senior editorial staff is that they have taken the conscious decision that they are willing to afflict the afflicted, and comfort the comfortable, thus protecting untrammelled corporate power and privilege, even it means legitimising racism, science denial and authoritarianism.

They are by no means alone in this, it is a conscious strategy on behalf of the decision makers of many or even most traditional journalistic bastions.

This is indeed a betrayal of the many good journalists that work at these organisations, and a betrayal of journalism itself.

The right-wing industrial bullshit machine is massive enough as it is, and the world of social media is so out of control in terms of spreading far right propaganda, that it's imperative that traditionally reputable outlets do not add to it. Sadly a lot of them seem intent on doing just that.

It's not as if the New York Times doesn't have a history of doing such however - it denied Stalin's Holomodor in Ukraine in the 1930s.

Sadly its decision makers seem intent on following that path again and denying the existence of the American fascism of Trump and the Republican party.







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 05, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Great commentary

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 03:07:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Great commentary

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
nyt have had op ed pieces by Putin , erdogan and some taliban leader before and seemed to be ok .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 03:25:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Great commentary

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Do you ever post anything constructive? Something that logically argues your views of the US political scene, rather than just tweets and articles.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 05, 2020, 03:42:37 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 03:25:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Great commentary

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Do you ever post anything constructive? Something that logically argues your views of the US political scene, rather than just tweets and articles.

Given that I'm a descendant from Captain Boycott, I think it's good to mix it up and share perspective from other sources
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 03:53:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 03:42:37 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 03:25:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Great commentary

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Do you ever post anything constructive? Something that logically argues your views of the US political scene, rather than just tweets and articles.

Given that I'm a descendant from Captain Boycott, I think it's good to mix it up and share perspective from other sources

I'm not talking about perspective, I'm talking about your own opinion, not just endless retweets. I'd be interested in hearing why you think the way you do, even if I disagree with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 05, 2020, 04:50:14 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 03:53:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 03:42:37 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 03:25:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Great commentary

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Do you ever post anything constructive? Something that logically argues your views of the US political scene, rather than just tweets and articles.

Given that I'm a descendant from Captain Boycott, I think it's good to mix it up and share perspective from other sources

I'm not talking about perspective, I'm talking about your own opinion, not just endless retweets. I'd be interested in hearing why you think the way you do, even if I disagree with it.

I give my opinion all the time. It's just the last few days I have been sharing other stuff
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.

That's a lot of morons - how do you reverse their thinking - lobotomy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.
has there ever been a resistance by media and an opposition party like this ever before  24/7 ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:23:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.
has there ever been a resistance by media and an opposition party like this ever before  24/7 ?

On the media - assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is true, has it ever been necessary before? In what way is it unjustified?
Opposition party - were you asleep from 2009-17? Merrick Garland, "you lie!", Ted Cruz's government shutdown, Benghazi, Tea Party, birthers, "biggest job is to make Obama a one-term president", "party of Hell No!" and on and on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.

That's a lot of morons - how do you reverse their thinking - lobotomy?

A lot of them are reveling in his scorched earth presidency. As long it makes the libtards cry!

One would hope though that a sufficient amount of those turned off by Hillary and willing to give him a tentative vote last time out will be having buyers remorse. If their conscience found Hillary objectionable, I can't even imagine how they sleep at night having voted for him.

Christ even Senator Murkowski of Alaska, a Republican and staunch conservative, said publicly that she is not sure if she can vote for him this year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 05:31:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:23:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.
has there ever been a resistance by media and an opposition party like this ever before  24/7 ?

On the media - assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is true, has it ever been necessary before? In what way is it unjustified?
Opposition party - were you asleep from 2009-17? Merrick Garland, "you lie!", Ted Cruz's government shutdown, Benghazi, Tea Party, birthers, "biggest job is to make Obama a one-term president", "party of Hell No!" and on and on.
the objective was not to try to remove the democratically elected president during his term though was it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:48:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 05:31:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:23:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.
has there ever been a resistance by media and an opposition party like this ever before  24/7 ?

On the media - assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is true, has it ever been necessary before? In what way is it unjustified?
Opposition party - were you asleep from 2009-17? Merrick Garland, "you lie!", Ted Cruz's government shutdown, Benghazi, Tea Party, birthers, "biggest job is to make Obama a one-term president", "party of Hell No!" and on and on.
the objective was not to try to remove the democratically elected president during his term though was it .

Every president has been democratically elected. Luckily for the country, most of them haven't behaved so appallingly that impeachment was ever seriously considered, nevermind put into action. There were various mentions of impeachment by GOP pols when Obama was president, but he didn't do anything that would have made it even a remote possibility that they would actually try.

Trump was probably lucky that it didn't happen sooner. Pelosi rules her caucus with an iron fist and didn't want the political circus of an impeachment, but even she had to concede to the inevitable once the Ukraine scandal came to light.

And oversight of the Executive Branch is one of the duties and responsibilities of Congress and part of why THEY are elected. It would have been a dereliction of their duty had they not gone forward with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 05, 2020, 06:24:15 PM
The brave men and women of the LAPD take out a key operative of the BLM/AntiFa/Soros/Democrat/rioter/looter cabal

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZwAhkpXkAMIbNl?format=png&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZwAhkrXQAAgNty?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 06:27:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.

That's a lot of morons - how do you reverse their thinking - lobotomy?

A lot of them are reveling in his scorched earth presidency. As long it makes the libtards cry!

One would hope though that a sufficient amount of those turned off by Hillary and willing to give him a tentative vote last time out will be having buyers remorse. If their conscience found Hillary objectionable, I can't even imagine how they sleep at night having voted for him.

Christ even Senator Murkowski of Alaska, a Republican and staunch conservative, said publicly that she is not sure if she can vote for him this year.

We've had enough of these cowardly "this is very troubling" or "this is deeply concerning" weasel words from Republicans like Murkowski, Collins, Flake, Sasse, Ryan etc.

What is needed is real political action.

Amash, maybe McCain before him and to a much lesser extent Romney, are the only Republicans who can have anything even resembling a clear conscience in that regard.

Really, what is needed is resignation from the Republican party and repudiation of it. Only Amash has done that.

The rest of the party has been Vichy-like in its collaborationism - but then again, one could very reasonably say they weren't un-Vichy like before that anyway.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 06:29:55 PM
Nothing Nazi about this at all, oh wait.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/1268895318843809793

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 06:51:36 PM
It sure is

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1268962838128799745

Mehdi Hasan
@mehdirhasan
·
1m
The idea that you can't call someone a Nazi until/unless they've killed 6 million people is kinda silly when you stop to think about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 07:19:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 06:27:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.

That's a lot of morons - how do you reverse their thinking - lobotomy?

A lot of them are reveling in his scorched earth presidency. As long it makes the libtards cry!

One would hope though that a sufficient amount of those turned off by Hillary and willing to give him a tentative vote last time out will be having buyers remorse. If their conscience found Hillary objectionable, I can't even imagine how they sleep at night having voted for him.

Christ even Senator Murkowski of Alaska, a Republican and staunch conservative, said publicly that she is not sure if she can vote for him this year.

We've had enough of these cowardly "this is very troubling" or "this is deeply concerning" weasel words from Republicans like Murkowski, Collins, Flake, Sasse, Ryan etc.

What is needed is real political action.

Amash, maybe McCain before him and to a much lesser extent Romney, are the only Republicans who can have anything even resembling a clear conscience in that regard.

Really, what is needed is resignation from the Republican party and repudiation of it. Only Amash has done that.

The rest of the party has been Vichy-like in its collaborationism - but then again, one could very reasonably say they weren't un-Vichy like before that anyway.

They're scared out of their wits because if they don't prostrate themselves in front of the Dear Leader, they will be primaried by someone who will.

That, and the fact that quite a few of them are true believers in the bullshit Trump is selling anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
Trump said today live on tv that George Floyd will be looking down excited by the rise in employment figures.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 07:32:26 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
Trump said today live on tv that George Floyd will be looking down excited by the rise in employment figures.

I just saw that on channel 4 news, he's unhinged. How could any rational person ever say something like that? And before anyone says I know he's not but how do so many people vote for him, scary place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 07:36:59 PM
https://www.facebook.com/7976226799/posts/10158567052821800/?sfnsn=scwspwa&extid=YwTtBRD0byZIKIsq&d=w&vh=e

Watch this if you want to know inside the mind of a Trump voter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 07:38:38 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 07:36:59 PM
https://www.facebook.com/7976226799/posts/10158567052821800/?sfnsn=scwspwa&extid=YwTtBRD0byZIKIsq&d=w&vh=e

Watch this if you want to know inside the mind of a Trump voter.

I've seen it, ridiculous but quite frightening in a way if you live there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 08:21:37 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
Trump said today live on tv that George Floyd will be looking down excited by the rise in employment figures.
looking at too much twitter not the truth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 08:41:57 PM
Quote from: dec on June 05, 2020, 06:24:15 PM
The brave men and women of the LAPD take out a key operative of the BLM/AntiFa/Soros/Democrat/rioter/looter cabal

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZwAhkpXkAMIbNl?format=png&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZwAhkrXQAAgNty?format=jpg&name=small)
another fake
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on June 05, 2020, 08:55:47 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
Trump said today live on tv that George Floyd will be looking down excited by the rise in employment figures.

Like it is incredible that people are willing to associate themselves with him. He'll be remembered the same way as Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Charlie Haughey. A figure widely derided.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 05, 2020, 09:05:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 05, 2020, 08:55:47 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
Trump said today live on tv that George Floyd will be looking down excited by the rise in employment figures.

Like it is incredible that people are willing to associate themselves with him. He'll be remembered the same way as Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Charlie Haughey. A figure widely derided.

Watch the video.....that has already been debunked
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 08:21:37 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
Trump said today live on tv that George Floyd will be looking down excited by the rise in employment figures.
looking at too much twitter not the truth.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/jun/05/george-floyd-protests-donald-trump-hydroxychloroquine-live
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 05, 2020, 09:11:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 08:41:57 PM
Quote from: dec on June 05, 2020, 06:24:15 PM
The brave men and women of the LAPD take out a key operative of the BLM/AntiFa/Soros/Democrat/rioter/looter cabal

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZwAhkpXkAMIbNl?format=png&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZwAhkrXQAAgNty?format=jpg&name=small)
another fake

Source?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 05, 2020, 09:17:01 PM
I think it's real

Homeless guy hit in the eye with a rubber bullet

Caught in crossfire between cops and a group refusing to disperse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on June 05, 2020, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 05, 2020, 09:05:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 05, 2020, 08:55:47 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
Trump said today live on tv that George Floyd will be looking down excited by the rise in employment figures.

Like it is incredible that people are willing to associate themselves with him. He'll be remembered the same way as Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Charlie Haughey. A figure widely derided.

Watch the video.....that has already been debunked

What video? What has been debunked? That'll he'll not be remembered as one of the most dangerous people in recent times?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 06, 2020, 12:25:03 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 07:19:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 06:27:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.

That's a lot of morons - how do you reverse their thinking - lobotomy?

A lot of them are reveling in his scorched earth presidency. As long it makes the libtards cry!

One would hope though that a sufficient amount of those turned off by Hillary and willing to give him a tentative vote last time out will be having buyers remorse. If their conscience found Hillary objectionable, I can't even imagine how they sleep at night having voted for him.

Christ even Senator Murkowski of Alaska, a Republican and staunch conservative, said publicly that she is not sure if she can vote for him this year.

We've had enough of these cowardly "this is very troubling" or "this is deeply concerning" weasel words from Republicans like Murkowski, Collins, Flake, Sasse, Ryan etc.

What is needed is real political action.

Amash, maybe McCain before him and to a much lesser extent Romney, are the only Republicans who can have anything even resembling a clear conscience in that regard.

Really, what is needed is resignation from the Republican party and repudiation of it. Only Amash has done that.

The rest of the party has been Vichy-like in its collaborationism - but then again, one could very reasonably say they weren't un-Vichy like before that anyway.

They're scared out of their wits because if they don't prostrate themselves in front of the Dear Leader, they will be primaried by someone who will.

That, and the fact that quite a few of them are true believers in the bullshit Trump is selling anyway.


Anne Applebaum has a very good article here on the different motives for collaboration with an authoritarian regime.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

You'd probably want a couple of hours as it's long.

Here's what she says about the fear motive:

QuoteI am afraid to speak out.

Fear, of course, is the most important reason any inhabitant of an authoritarian or totalitarian society does not protest or resign, even when the leader commits crimes, violates his official ideology, or forces people to do things that they know to be wrong. In extreme dictatorships like Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia, people fear for their lives. In softer dictatorships, like East Germany after 1950 and Putin's Russia today, people fear losing their jobs or their apartments. Fear works as a motivation even when violence is a memory rather than a reality. When I was a student in Leningrad in the 1980s, some people still stepped back in horror when I asked for directions on the street, in my accented Russian: No one was going to be arrested for speaking to a foreigner in 1984, but 30 years earlier they might have been, and the cultural memory remained.

Republican leaders don't seem to know that similar waves of fear have helped transform other democracies into dictatorships.
In the United States of America, it is hard to imagine how fear could be a motivation for anybody. There are no mass murders of the regime's political enemies, and there never have been. Political opposition is legal; free press and free speech are guaranteed in the Constitution. And yet even in one of the world's oldest and most stable democracies, fear is a motive. The same former administration official who observed the importance of apocalyptic Christianity in Trump's Washington also told me, with grim disgust, that "they are all scared."

They are scared not of prison, the official said, but of being attacked by Trump on Twitter. They are scared he will make up a nickname for them. They are scared that they will be mocked, or embarrassed, like Mitt Romney has been. They are scared of losing their social circles, of being disinvited to parties. They are scared that their friends and supporters, and especially their donors, will desert them. John Bolton has his own super PAC and a lot of plans for how he wants to use it; no wonder he resisted testifying against Trump. Former Speaker Paul Ryan is among the dozens of House Republicans who have left Congress since the beginning of this administration, in one of the most striking personnel turnovers in congressional history. They left because they hated what Trump was doing to their party—and the country. Yet even after they left, they did not speak out.

They are scared, and yet they don't seem to know that this fear has precedents, or that it could have consequences. They don't know that similar waves of fear have helped transform other democracies into dictatorships. They don't seem to realize that the American Senate really could become the Russian Duma, or the Hungarian Parliament, a group of exalted men and women who sit in an elegant building, with no influence and no power. Indeed, we are already much closer to that reality than many could ever have imagined.

I found this category particularly persuasive:

QuoteMy side might be flawed, but the political opposition is much worse.

When Marshal Philippe Pétain, the leader of collaborationist France, took over the Vichy government, he did so in the name of the restoration of a France that he believed had been lost. Pétain had been a fierce critic of the French Republic, and once he was in control, he replaced its famous creed—Liberté, égalité, fraternité, or "Liberty, equality, fraternity"—with a different slogan: Travail, famille, patrie, or "Work, family, fatherland." Instead of the "false idea of the natural equality of man," he proposed bringing back "social hierarchy"—order, tradition, and religion. Instead of accepting modernity, Pétain sought to turn back the clock.

By Pétain's reckoning, collaboration with the Germans was not merely an embarrassing necessity. It was crucial, because it gave patriots the ability to fight the real enemy: the French parliamentarians, socialists, anarchists, Jews, and other assorted leftists and democrats who, he believed, were undermining the nation, robbing it of its vitality, destroying its essence. "Rather Hitler than Blum," the saying went—Blum having been France's socialist (and Jewish) prime minister in the late 1930s. One Vichy minister, Pierre Laval, famously declared that he hoped Germany would conquer all of Europe. Otherwise, he asserted, "Bolshevism would tomorrow establish itself everywhere."

To Americans, this kind of justification should sound very familiar; we have been hearing versions of it since 2016. The existential nature of the threat from "the left" has been spelled out many times. "Our liberal-left present reality and future direction is incompatible with human nature," wrote Michael Anton, in "The Flight 93 Election." The Fox News anchor Laura Ingraham has warned that "massive demographic changes" threaten us too: "In some parts of the country it does seem like the America that we know and love doesn't exist anymore." This is the Vichy logic: The nation is dead or dying—so anything you can do to restore it is justified. Whatever criticisms might be made of Trump, whatever harm he has done to democracy and the rule of law, whatever corrupt deals he might make while in the White House—all of these shrink in comparison to the horrific alternative: the liberalism, socialism, moral decadence, demographic change, and cultural degradation that would have been the inevitable result of Hillary Clinton's presidency.

The Republican senators who are willing to express their disgust with Trump off the record but voted in February for him to remain in office all indulge a variation of this sentiment. (Trump enables them to get the judges they want, and those judges will help create the America they want.) So do the evangelical pastors who ought to be disgusted by Trump's personal behavior but argue, instead, that the current situation has scriptural precedents. Like King David in the Bible, the president is a sinner, a flawed vessel, but he nevertheless offers a path to salvation for a fallen nation.

The three most important members of Trump's Cabinet—Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Attorney General William Barr—are all profoundly shaped by Vichyite apocalyptic thinking. All three are clever enough to understand what Trumpism really means, that it has nothing to do with God or faith, that it is self-serving, greedy, and unpatriotic. Nevertheless, a former member of the administration (one of the few who did decide to resign) told me that both Pence and Pompeo "have convinced themselves that they are in a biblical moment." All of the things they care about—outlawing abortion and same-sex marriage, and (though this is never said out loud) maintaining a white majority in America—are under threat. Time is growing short. They believe that "we are approaching the Rapture, and this is a moment of deep religious significance." Barr, in a speech at Notre Dame, has also described his belief that "militant secularists" are destroying America, that "irreligion and secular values are being forced on people of faith." Whatever evil Trump does, whatever he damages or destroys, at least he enables Barr, Pence, and Pompeo to save America from a far worse fate. If you are convinced we are living in the End Times, then anything the president does can be forgiven.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 06, 2020, 12:38:15 AM
LOL- I was supposed to be going to a wedding in Maine during the Summer that just got cancelled due to the virus. The grooms parents are some of our best Friends and absolutely hate Trump

My wife said she'd kill me if I forwarded on the clip of tonights Trump rally in Guilfors

Justin Reason (@uniQPatriot) Tweeted:
Guilford Maine Presidential visit today. Can you here the Roar of the crowd for the man himself. Of course our local news didn't give this man proper coverage of his supporters. What's new though huh? We are the News. Spread far and wide @POTUS @realDonaldTrump @DonaldJTrumpJr https://t.co/r9LaQnFRXl
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2020, 12:47:47 AM
Thanks Sid. Excerpts are interesting with the historical context. And reminds me I have to renew my Atlantic subscription. Haven't had much time to read it since I've been teleworking and home schooling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2020, 12:49:25 AM
Roger Goodell finally seeing the light on Kaepernick and players taking the knee??

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1269034074552721408?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet (https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1269034074552721408?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 06, 2020, 12:59:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 06, 2020, 12:47:47 AM
Thanks Sid. Excerpts are interesting with the historical context. And reminds me I have to renew my Atlantic subscription. Haven't had much time to read it since I've been teleworking and home schooling.
Who needs long articles and historical context when we have links to tweets by QAnon accounts here.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 06, 2020, 02:10:19 AM
On my previous point on the heads of police unions, the Buffalo union boss reckons the old geezer who was blatantly obviously pushed over by a cop and cut open his head on the pavement actually "slipped".

Apparently the entire ESU unit has resigned (not from the force, but the unit) in protest at the suspension of two of their colleagues.

The Emergency Response Team members have not quit the police department, but have stepped down from the tactical unit, according to The Buffalo News sources. According to Buffalo Police Benevolent Association President John Evans, the two suspended officers were merely following directives and that the 75-year-old man slipped. "Our position is these officers were simply following orders from Deputy Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia to clear the square," said Evans. "It doesn't specify clear the square of men, 50 and under or 15 to 40. They were simply doing their job. I don't know how much contact was made. He did slip in my estimation. He fell backwards." As of late Friday afternoon, the top message on the Buffalo's police union webpage read: "These guys did nothing but do what they were ordered to do. This is disgusting !!!"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/05/57-buffalo-police-resign-from-riot-unit-in-protest-of-officers-suspension/#79b729a4473e (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/05/57-buffalo-police-resign-from-riot-unit-in-protest-of-officers-suspension/#79b729a4473e)

Like I said, you appear to have to be a particularly nasty piece of work, at least publicly, to be a police union boss. Do they think the obnoxious aggression is effective?




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 06, 2020, 02:18:24 AM
1987.

Not much has changed. Except that these views are operating straight out of the White House now.

https://twitter.com/DanielNewman/status/1268977713068605445

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 06, 2020, 03:37:20 AM
Finally, Republican claims of US voting fraud established...

Chauvin illegally voting in Florida.

https://twitter.com/TooMuchMe/status/1268986246338134016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1268986246338134016&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ultimateknicks.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic.asp%3Ft%3D60000%26page%3Dlu%23newunreadpost (https://twitter.com/TooMuchMe/status/1268986246338134016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1268986246338134016&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ultimateknicks.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic.asp%3Ft%3D60000%26page%3Dlu%23newunreadpost)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 06, 2020, 12:07:47 PM
Molotov cocktail throwing attorneys back in jail

Prosecutors had appealed the ruling to a higher court


Can someone post the link to NY Times coverage-thanks


https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2020/06/05/lawyers-accused-of-throwing-molotov-cocktail-in-brooklyn-protests-return-to-jail-as-2nd-circuit-grants-stay/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2020, 05:20:45 AM
You're right, a national newspaper has only dedicated two full articles about a story that wouldn't even be newsworthy if the two individuals weren't lawyers. Two full articles, on separate days , while a global pandemic, and a domestic crisis rage. What absolute bias to not devote every single day to a minor sub plot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 07, 2020, 05:24:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 06, 2020, 12:25:03 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 07:19:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2020, 06:27:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: glens73 on June 05, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
There really are 2 protests going on one is about George Floyd and police violence and the other is about trump , the question is do people let the protesters who are bandwagonBig iGeorge Floyd push them into voting for Biden or do they double down with trump . 6 monthxx Sc is a long time in politics.

We've had exactly five years of his circus freakshow dominating US politics, 3 1/2 of them with him in power.

Anyone who doesn't get it what he is and what he will bring at this point is a complete moron.

That's a lot of morons - how do you reverse their thinking - lobotomy?

A lot of them are reveling in his scorched earth presidency. As long it makes the libtards cry!

One would hope though that a sufficient amount of those turned off by Hillary and willing to give him a tentative vote last time out will be having buyers remorse. If their conscience found Hillary objectionable, I can't even imagine how they sleep at night having voted for him.

Christ even Senator Murkowski of Alaska, a Republican and staunch conservative, said publicly that she is not sure if she can vote for him this year.

We've had enough of these cowardly "this is very troubling" or "this is deeply concerning" weasel words from Republicans like Murkowski, Collins, Flake, Sasse, Ryan etc.

What is needed is real political action.

Amash, maybe McCain before him and to a much lesser extent Romney, are the only Republicans who can have anything even resembling a clear conscience in that regard.

Really, what is needed is resignation from the Republican party and repudiation of it. Only Amash has done that.

The rest of the party has been Vichy-like in its collaborationism - but then again, one could very reasonably say they weren't un-Vichy like before that anyway.

They're scared out of their wits because if they don't prostrate themselves in front of the Dear Leader, they will be primaried by someone who will.

That, and the fact that quite a few of them are true believers in the bullshit Trump is selling anyway.


Anne Applebaum has a very good article here on the different motives for collaboration with an authoritarian regime.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

You'd probably want a couple of hours as it's long.

Here's what she says about the fear motive:

QuoteI am afraid to speak out.

Fear, of course, is the most important reason any inhabitant of an authoritarian or totalitarian society does not protest or resign, even when the leader commits crimes, violates his official ideology, or forces people to do things that they know to be wrong. In extreme dictatorships like Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia, people fear for their lives. In softer dictatorships, like East Germany after 1950 and Putin's Russia today, people fear losing their jobs or their apartments. Fear works as a motivation even when violence is a memory rather than a reality. When I was a student in Leningrad in the 1980s, some people still stepped back in horror when I asked for directions on the street, in my accented Russian: No one was going to be arrested for speaking to a foreigner in 1984, but 30 years earlier they might have been, and the cultural memory remained.

Republican leaders don't seem to know that similar waves of fear have helped transform other democracies into dictatorships.
In the United States of America, it is hard to imagine how fear could be a motivation for anybody. There are no mass murders of the regime's political enemies, and there never have been. Political opposition is legal; free press and free speech are guaranteed in the Constitution. And yet even in one of the world's oldest and most stable democracies, fear is a motive. The same former administration official who observed the importance of apocalyptic Christianity in Trump's Washington also told me, with grim disgust, that "they are all scared."

They are scared not of prison, the official said, but of being attacked by Trump on Twitter. They are scared he will make up a nickname for them. They are scared that they will be mocked, or embarrassed, like Mitt Romney has been. They are scared of losing their social circles, of being disinvited to parties. They are scared that their friends and supporters, and especially their donors, will desert them. John Bolton has his own super PAC and a lot of plans for how he wants to use it; no wonder he resisted testifying against Trump. Former Speaker Paul Ryan is among the dozens of House Republicans who have left Congress since the beginning of this administration, in one of the most striking personnel turnovers in congressional history. They left because they hated what Trump was doing to their party—and the country. Yet even after they left, they did not speak out.

They are scared, and yet they don't seem to know that this fear has precedents, or that it could have consequences. They don't know that similar waves of fear have helped transform other democracies into dictatorships. They don't seem to realize that the American Senate really could become the Russian Duma, or the Hungarian Parliament, a group of exalted men and women who sit in an elegant building, with no influence and no power. Indeed, we are already much closer to that reality than many could ever have imagined.

I found this category particularly persuasive:

QuoteMy side might be flawed, but the political opposition is much worse.

When Marshal Philippe Pétain, the leader of collaborationist France, took over the Vichy government, he did so in the name of the restoration of a France that he believed had been lost. Pétain had been a fierce critic of the French Republic, and once he was in control, he replaced its famous creed—Liberté, égalité, fraternité, or "Liberty, equality, fraternity"—with a different slogan: Travail, famille, patrie, or "Work, family, fatherland." Instead of the "false idea of the natural equality of man," he proposed bringing back "social hierarchy"—order, tradition, and religion. Instead of accepting modernity, Pétain sought to turn back the clock.

By Pétain's reckoning, collaboration with the Germans was not merely an embarrassing necessity. It was crucial, because it gave patriots the ability to fight the real enemy: the French parliamentarians, socialists, anarchists, Jews, and other assorted leftists and democrats who, he believed, were undermining the nation, robbing it of its vitality, destroying its essence. "Rather Hitler than Blum," the saying went—Blum having been France's socialist (and Jewish) prime minister in the late 1930s. One Vichy minister, Pierre Laval, famously declared that he hoped Germany would conquer all of Europe. Otherwise, he asserted, "Bolshevism would tomorrow establish itself everywhere."

To Americans, this kind of justification should sound very familiar; we have been hearing versions of it since 2016. The existential nature of the threat from "the left" has been spelled out many times. "Our liberal-left present reality and future direction is incompatible with human nature," wrote Michael Anton, in "The Flight 93 Election." The Fox News anchor Laura Ingraham has warned that "massive demographic changes" threaten us too: "In some parts of the country it does seem like the America that we know and love doesn't exist anymore." This is the Vichy logic: The nation is dead or dying—so anything you can do to restore it is justified. Whatever criticisms might be made of Trump, whatever harm he has done to democracy and the rule of law, whatever corrupt deals he might make while in the White House—all of these shrink in comparison to the horrific alternative: the liberalism, socialism, moral decadence, demographic change, and cultural degradation that would have been the inevitable result of Hillary Clinton's presidency.

The Republican senators who are willing to express their disgust with Trump off the record but voted in February for him to remain in office all indulge a variation of this sentiment. (Trump enables them to get the judges they want, and those judges will help create the America they want.) So do the evangelical pastors who ought to be disgusted by Trump's personal behavior but argue, instead, that the current situation has scriptural precedents. Like King David in the Bible, the president is a sinner, a flawed vessel, but he nevertheless offers a path to salvation for a fallen nation.

The three most important members of Trump's Cabinet—Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Attorney General William Barr—are all profoundly shaped by Vichyite apocalyptic thinking. All three are clever enough to understand what Trumpism really means, that it has nothing to do with God or faith, that it is self-serving, greedy, and unpatriotic. Nevertheless, a former member of the administration (one of the few who did decide to resign) told me that both Pence and Pompeo "have convinced themselves that they are in a biblical moment." All of the things they care about—outlawing abortion and same-sex marriage, and (though this is never said out loud) maintaining a white majority in America—are under threat. Time is growing short. They believe that "we are approaching the Rapture, and this is a moment of deep religious significance." Barr, in a speech at Notre Dame, has also described his belief that "militant secularists" are destroying America, that "irreligion and secular values are being forced on people of faith." Whatever evil Trump does, whatever he damages or destroys, at least he enables Barr, Pence, and Pompeo to save America from a far worse fate. If you are convinced we are living in the End Times, then anything the president does can be forgiven.

Thanks for sharing, very interesting. I just read it using the Spritzlet speed-reading browser plugin. I highly recommend it, it's very useful for long pieces like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 07, 2020, 11:54:03 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2020, 05:20:45 AM
You're right, a national newspaper has only dedicated two full articles about a story that wouldn't even be newsworthy if the two individuals weren't lawyers. Two full articles, on separate days , while a global pandemic, and a domestic crisis rage. What absolute bias to not devote every single day to a minor sub plot.

I assumed he was trolling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 07, 2020, 05:34:12 PM
So hours after trying to use George Floyd's name for his own purposes, saying it was a "great day" for Floyd, Trump then retweets a video from Glenn Beck's show where a black conservative goes to town on Floyd's reputation and completely misses the point about how and why he, Floyd, became a global symbol.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/trump-retweets-video-of-candace-owens-attacking-george-floyd/ (https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/trump-retweets-video-of-candace-owens-attacking-george-floyd/)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZyr-Z5X0AEE2VD?format=jpg&name=medium)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 07, 2020, 07:51:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 06, 2020, 12:07:47 PM
Molotov cocktail throwing attorneys back in jail

Prosecutors had appealed the ruling to a higher court


Can someone post the link to NY Times coverage-thanks


https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2020/06/05/lawyers-accused-of-throwing-molotov-cocktail-in-brooklyn-protests-return-to-jail-as-2nd-circuit-grants-stay/

No worries!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/nyregion/molotov-cocktail-lawyers-nyc.html?searchResultPosition=1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 07, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
A statue of slave trader Edward Colston was pulled down by protestors in Bristol today.

You love to see it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 07, 2020, 09:34:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 07, 2020, 07:51:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 06, 2020, 12:07:47 PM
Molotov cocktail throwing attorneys back in jail

Prosecutors had appealed the ruling to a higher court


Can someone post the link to NY Times coverage-thanks


https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2020/06/05/lawyers-accused-of-throwing-molotov-cocktail-in-brooklyn-protests-return-to-jail-as-2nd-circuit-grants-stay/

No worries!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/nyregion/molotov-cocktail-lawyers-nyc.html?searchResultPosition=1

Does it report that their bail got revoked by a higher court, given the seriousness of the charges?


Also, I see that she was born in Pakistan. If she didn't get her citizenship, they'll push  for her To be deported
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 07, 2020, 09:37:43 PM
Great news for Democrats

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.providencejournal.com/news/20200605/100k-ri-mail-ballot-applications-sent-by-state-were-returned-to-sender%3ftemplate=ampart

As the vote count in Rhode Island's June 2 presidential primary continues, the secretary of state's office confirmed Friday that approximately 100,000 of the mail ballot applications the state sent, unsolicited, to 779,463 registered voters were returned as undeliverable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 07, 2020, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 07, 2020, 09:34:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 07, 2020, 07:51:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 06, 2020, 12:07:47 PM
Molotov cocktail throwing attorneys back in jail

Prosecutors had appealed the ruling to a higher court


Can someone post the link to NY Times coverage-thanks


https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2020/06/05/lawyers-accused-of-throwing-molotov-cocktail-in-brooklyn-protests-return-to-jail-as-2nd-circuit-grants-stay/

No worries!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/nyregion/molotov-cocktail-lawyers-nyc.html?searchResultPosition=1

Does it report that their bail got revoked by a higher court, given the seriousness of the charges?


Also, I see that she was born in Pakistan. If she didn't get her citizenship, they'll push  for her To be deported

Did you read the article? Or is that too much like hard work?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 07, 2020, 09:51:55 PM
Quote from: dec on June 07, 2020, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 07, 2020, 09:34:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 07, 2020, 07:51:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 06, 2020, 12:07:47 PM
Molotov cocktail throwing attorneys back in jail

Prosecutors had appealed the ruling to a higher court


Can someone post the link to NY Times coverage-thanks


https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2020/06/05/lawyers-accused-of-throwing-molotov-cocktail-in-brooklyn-protests-return-to-jail-as-2nd-circuit-grants-stay/

No worries!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/nyregion/molotov-cocktail-lawyers-nyc.html?searchResultPosition=1

Does it report that their bail got revoked by a higher court, given the seriousness of the charges?


Also, I see that she was born in Pakistan. If she didn't get her citizenship, they'll push  for her To be deported

Did you read the article? Or is that too much like hard work?

It's behind a paywall. Please just pluck that paragraph out and paste it up for me if you don't mind
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2020, 10:45:46 PM
This just gets funnier.  You're complaining about articles not being in the Times, then complaining about specific paragraphs not being in the articles that, it turns out, are in the Times, all the while not actually having access to the part of the Times site behind paywalls.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 07, 2020, 10:52:44 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2020, 10:45:46 PM
This just gets funnier.  You're complaining about articles not being in the Times, then complaining about specific paragraphs not being in the articles that, it turns out, are in the Times, all the while not actually having access to the part of the Times site behind paywalls.

Please just put up the paragraph from that article where it talks about their bail being revoked because of the seriousness of the crimes and their background as lawyers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
OK, fine.

After Mr. Mattis and Ms. Rahman spent more than two days in jail, a federal magistrate judge in Brooklyn released them each on $250,000 bond to home confinement with GPS monitoring, describing the allegations as "one night of behavior."

Prosecutors appealed the ruling twice, calling the two a danger to the community. A federal appeals court sent them back to jail on Friday, pending the outcome of their bail appeal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 07, 2020, 11:27:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
OK, fine.

After Mr. Mattis and Ms. Rahman spent more than two days in jail, a federal magistrate judge in Brooklyn released them each on $250,000 bond to home confinement with GPS monitoring, describing the allegations as "one night of behavior."

Prosecutors appealed the ruling twice, calling the two a danger to the community. A federal appeals court sent them back to jail on Friday, pending the outcome of their bail appeal.


Thank you

One paragraph in a multi page puff piece otherwise letting us know how mighty they are

https://www.google.com/amp/s/champ.gothamist.com/champ/gothamist/news/brooklyn-lawyers-alleged-have-thrown-molotov-cocktail-headed-back-jail
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 07, 2020, 11:30:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 07, 2020, 11:27:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
OK, fine.

After Mr. Mattis and Ms. Rahman spent more than two days in jail, a federal magistrate judge in Brooklyn released them each on $250,000 bond to home confinement with GPS monitoring, describing the allegations as "one night of behavior."

Prosecutors appealed the ruling twice, calling the two a danger to the community. A federal appeals court sent them back to jail on Friday, pending the outcome of their bail appeal.


Thank you

One paragraph in a multi page puff piece otherwise letting us know how mighty they are

How do you know that it is a multi page puff piece if you can't see it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:17:29 AM
Quote from: dec on June 07, 2020, 11:30:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 07, 2020, 11:27:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
OK, fine.

After Mr. Mattis and Ms. Rahman spent more than two days in jail, a federal magistrate judge in Brooklyn released them each on $250,000 bond to home confinement with GPS monitoring, describing the allegations as "one night of behavior."

Prosecutors appealed the ruling twice, calling the two a danger to the community. A federal appeals court sent them back to jail on Friday, pending the outcome of their bail appeal.


Thank you

One paragraph in a multi page puff piece otherwise letting us know how mighty they are

How do you know that it is a multi page puff piece if you can't see it.

I have multiple devices-I was out and about and couldn't see it on my I phone, but I have several other devices at home that haven't hit the monthly limit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 08, 2020, 12:31:01 AM
Minneapolis Police Department to be disbanded. Proper order. NYPD, Buffalo and others need to follow.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:32:22 AM
Let's face it whitey, they could have a Fox News style apocalyptic write up about these lawyers being a threat to the world and you'd still be whining about the Times. You're getting tedious. Surely you have something other than The NY Times and the "greatest political crime of all time" (FISA) to contribute to a US politics discussion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:41:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 07, 2020, 09:37:43 PM
Great news for Democrats

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.providencejournal.com/news/20200605/100k-ri-mail-ballot-applications-sent-by-state-were-returned-to-sender%3ftemplate=ampart

As the vote count in Rhode Island's June 2 presidential primary continues, the secretary of state's office confirmed Friday that approximately 100,000 of the mail ballot applications the state sent, unsolicited, to 779,463 registered voters were returned as undeliverable.

That should be disturbing for anyone concerned about this election.

But I guess the GOP would prefer a lower turnout.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:42:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 07, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
A statue of slave trader Edward Colston was pulled down by protestors in Bristol today.

You love to see it.

May many more follow.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:46:02 AM
Mitt Romney marched with Black Lives Matter today in D.C.

Fair fucks to him.

Bonus is I'm sure the Dear Leader was seething! ;D

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/mitt-romney-takes-part-protest-supporting-black-lives-matter-near-n1227086 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/mitt-romney-takes-part-protest-supporting-black-lives-matter-near-n1227086)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:52:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:46:02 AM
Mitt Romney marched with Black Lives Matter today in D.C.

Fair fucks to him.

Bonus is I'm sure the Dear Leader was seething! ;D

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/mitt-romney-takes-part-protest-supporting-black-lives-matter-near-n1227086 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/mitt-romney-takes-part-protest-supporting-black-lives-matter-near-n1227086)

Ah Yes.....Mitt Romney, who was heralded by the Democrats in 2012 as the greatest threat to democracy since Gengis Kahn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:55:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:52:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:46:02 AM
Mitt Romney marched with Black Lives Matter today in D.C.

Fair fucks to him.

Bonus is I'm sure the Dear Leader was seething! ;D

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/mitt-romney-takes-part-protest-supporting-black-lives-matter-near-n1227086 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/mitt-romney-takes-part-protest-supporting-black-lives-matter-near-n1227086)

Ah Yes.....Mitt Romney, who was heralded by the Democrats in 2012 as the greatest threat to democracy since Gengis Kahn

Feel free whitey to present any evidence that the Democratic campaign against Romney was different in any serious level to any standard presidential campaign, including Romney's own against Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:57:25 AM
In all seriousness though, has anyone seen the picture of Bill DeBlasio's daughter circulating on Twitter?

Someone should stage an intervention quickly to save her life
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:05:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:57:25 AM
In all seriousness though, has anyone seen the picture of Bill DeBlasio's daughter circulating on Twitter?

Someone should stage an intervention quickly to save her life

Haven't seen it.

I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:05:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:57:25 AM
In all seriousness though, has anyone seen the picture of Bill DeBlasio's daughter circulating on Twitter?

Someone should stage an intervention quickly to save her life

Haven't seen it.

I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week.

Maybe the sc**bag daughter of the Mayor shouldn't have been acting the cvnt and putting his officers lives in danger
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:24:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:05:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:57:25 AM
In all seriousness though, has anyone seen the picture of Bill DeBlasio's daughter circulating on Twitter?

Someone should stage an intervention quickly to save her life

Haven't seen it.

I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week.

Maybe the sc**bag daughter of the Mayor shouldn't have been acting the cvnt and putting his officers lives in danger

So taking part in a peaceful protest blocking traffic and getting arrested for refusing to move (I've no issue with her getting arrested) warrants getting all your personal information posted on  Twitter by a vindictive union boss with a history of loutish and questionable public declarations trying to get a dig in against your father?

Were you supportive of this same union boss when he publicly tarnished the name of the young girl who had just been murdered outisde Columbia University last Christmas, speculating that she was probably in the park to buy drugs? How do you reckon her devastated family felt hearing that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2020, 03:55:31 AM
What's wrong with her?

(https://i.postimg.cc/KvmSQrjV/Screen-Shot-2020-06-07-at-7-50-14-PM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 08, 2020, 05:04:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:05:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:57:25 AM
In all seriousness though, has anyone seen the picture of Bill DeBlasio's daughter circulating on Twitter?

Someone should stage an intervention quickly to save her life

Haven't seen it.

I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week.

Maybe the sc**bag daughter of the Mayor shouldn't have been acting the cvnt and putting his officers lives in danger
Lads, please Don't pay any more heed to that trolling, vituperative and disingenuous a$$ who claims to be from Mayo. You are only giving him oxygen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 08, 2020, 05:07:30 AM
Yeah. That post you just quoted has done it for me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on June 08, 2020, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:42:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 07, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
A statue of slave trader Edward Colston was pulled down by protestors in Bristol today.

You love to see it.

May many more follow.
John Mitchels Claudy GAC and John Mitchels Glenullin GAC in Derry might have to make a decision then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mitchel
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on June 08, 2020, 09:33:23 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 08, 2020, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:42:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 07, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
A statue of slave trader Edward Colston was pulled down by protestors in Bristol today.

You love to see it.

May many more follow.
John Mitchels Claudy GAC and John Mitchels Glenullin GAC in Derry might have to make a decision then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mitchel

I posted to my old history teacher on Facebook about whether the John Mitchell statue in Newry should be pulled down as well. Mitchell's club in Newry as well, the original one from what I gather.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on June 08, 2020, 09:56:52 AM
https://twitter.com/AndyHa_/status/1269759628520435712?s=09
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on June 08, 2020, 09:58:54 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 08, 2020, 09:33:23 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 08, 2020, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:42:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 07, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
A statue of slave trader Edward Colston was pulled down by protestors in Bristol today.

You love to see it.

May many more follow.
John Mitchels Claudy GAC and John Mitchels Glenullin GAC in Derry might have to make a decision then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mitchel

I posted to my old history teacher on Facebook about whether the John Mitchell statue in Newry should be pulled down as well. Mitchell's club in Newry as well, the original one from what I gather.
He was explicitly racist, saying negroes were "an innately inferior people"[21] and opining "We deny that it is a crime, or a wrong, or even a peccadillo to hold slaves, to buy slaves, to keep slaves to their work by flogging or other needful correction. We wish we had a good plantation well-stocked with healthy negroes in Alabama."[

Id say there is a good chance it will be taken down. Though I remember listening to a good piece by a black historian on why such statues should remain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 11:35:37 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2020, 03:55:31 AM
What's wrong with her?

(https://i.postimg.cc/KvmSQrjV/Screen-Shot-2020-06-07-at-7-50-14-PM.png)

Not that one. The one where she's half asleep on the train
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 11:38:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:24:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:05:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:57:25 AM
In all seriousness though, has anyone seen the picture of Bill DeBlasio's daughter circulating on Twitter?

Someone should stage an intervention quickly to save her life

Haven't seen it.

I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week.

Maybe the sc**bag daughter of the Mayor shouldn't have been acting the cvnt and putting his officers lives in danger

So taking part in a peaceful protest blocking traffic and getting arrested for refusing to move (I've no issue with her getting arrested) warrants getting all your personal information posted on  Twitter by a vindictive union boss with a history of loutish and questionable public declarations trying to get a dig in against your father?

Were you supportive of this same union boss when he publicly tarnished the name of the young girl who had just been murdered outisde Columbia University last Christmas, speculating that she was probably in the park to buy drugs? How do you reckon her devastated family felt hearing that?

So this guys officers have been run over by looters, shot, stabbed, spat at, firebombed and had rocks and bottles of urine thrown at them.....and yet in your opinion he's the sc**bag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 12:49:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 11:38:19 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:24:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:05:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 12:57:25 AM
In all seriousness though, has anyone seen the picture of Bill DeBlasio's daughter circulating on Twitter?

Someone should stage an intervention quickly to save her life

Haven't seen it.

I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week.

Maybe the sc**bag daughter of the Mayor shouldn't have been acting the cvnt and putting his officers lives in danger

So taking part in a peaceful protest blocking traffic and getting arrested for refusing to move (I've no issue with her getting arrested) warrants getting all your personal information posted on  Twitter by a vindictive union boss with a history of loutish and questionable public declarations trying to get a dig in against your father?

Were you supportive of this same union boss when he publicly tarnished the name of the young girl who had just been murdered outisde Columbia University last Christmas, speculating that she was probably in the park to buy drugs? How do you reckon her devastated family felt hearing that?

So this guys officers have been run over by looters, shot, stabbed, spat at, firebombed and had rocks and bottles of urine thrown at them.....and yet in your opinion he's the sc**bag.

I said A sc**bag, not THE sc**bag.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:08:29 PM

"I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:08:29 PM

"I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week."

The "the" refers to the union boss, not the adjective I used to describe him.

You wrote "So this guys officers have been run over by looters, shot, stabbed, spat at, firebombed and had rocks and bottles of urine thrown at them.....and yet in your opinion he's the sc**bag."

At no point did I compare or contrast the union boss and his behaviour with that of the rioters who were shooting, firebombing etc.

I asked you if you think his behaviour was/is appropriate. If you think trying to make a political/PR point against the mayor (a mayor who has been under a lot of fire for his defense of the NYPD BTW) by publishing his daughter's personal details on the internet for all the world to see,in the aftermath of her arrest during a peaceful protest, is appropriate, then just have some balls and say so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:38:25 PM
So J70 if your house was on fire or a family member was in a serious accident with life threatening injuries, and a bunch of "peaceful" protestors lay down on the road And blocked the emergency vehicles from responding you'd be okay with that even if your house burnt down or if your family member died

Participating in a riot and blocking emergency vehicles, even peacefully is a very very serious matter, and for the first daughter to be participating is mind boggling to say the least
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:45:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:08:29 PM

"I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week."

The "the" refers to the union boss, not the adjective I used to describe him.

You wrote "So this guys officers have been run over by looters, shot, stabbed, spat at, firebombed and had rocks and bottles of urine thrown at them.....and yet in your opinion he's the sc**bag."

At no point did I compare or contrast the union boss and his behaviour with that of the rioters who were shooting, firebombing etc.

I asked you if you think his behaviour was/is appropriate. If you think trying to make a political/PR point against the mayor (a mayor who has been under a lot of fire for his defense of the NYPD BTW) by publishing his daughter's personal details on the internet for all the world to see,in the aftermath of her arrest during a peaceful protest, is appropriate, then just have some balls and say so.

Daily Mail published it

He retweeted it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:52:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:08:29 PM

"I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week."

The "the" refers to the union boss, not the adjective I used to describe him.

You wrote "So this guys officers have been run over by looters, shot, stabbed, spat at, firebombed and had rocks and bottles of urine thrown at them.....and yet in your opinion he's the sc**bag."

At no point did I compare or contrast the union boss and his behaviour with that of the rioters who were shooting, firebombing etc.

I asked you if you think his behaviour was/is appropriate. If you think trying to make a political/PR point against the mayor (a mayor who has been under a lot of fire for his defense of the NYPD BTW) by publishing his daughter's personal details on the internet for all the world to see,in the aftermath of her arrest during a peaceful protest, is appropriate, then just have some balls and say so.

I agree with you he shouldn't have done it, but given what his officers have had to deal with I'm not surprised he did. To say he is a/the sc**bag for doing it is completely off the reservation though

If I were a taxpayer in the city of New York and the Mayors daughter was "peacefully" participating in a riot and blocking emergency vehicles from rendering aid to injured officers, I know who I'd be calling a sc**bag.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on June 08, 2020, 02:02:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:52:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:08:29 PM

"I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week."

The "the" refers to the union boss, not the adjective I used to describe him.

You wrote "So this guys officers have been run over by looters, shot, stabbed, spat at, firebombed and had rocks and bottles of urine thrown at them.....and yet in your opinion he's the sc**bag."

At no point did I compare or contrast the union boss and his behaviour with that of the rioters who were shooting, firebombing etc.

I asked you if you think his behaviour was/is appropriate. If you think trying to make a political/PR point against the mayor (a mayor who has been under a lot of fire for his defense of the NYPD BTW) by publishing his daughter's personal details on the internet for all the world to see,in the aftermath of her arrest during a peaceful protest, is appropriate, then just have some balls and say so.

I agree with you he shouldn't have done it, but given what his officers have had to deal with I'm not surprised he did. To say he is a/the sc**bag for doing it is completely off the reservation though

If I were a taxpayer in the city of New York and the Mayors daughter was "peacefully" participating in a riot and blocking emergency vehicles from rendering aid to injured officers, I know who I'd be calling a sc**bag.
I remember my da telling me the up roar there was in Derry at the civil rights marchers when they were obstructing the emergency services from getting through ::)
You are shameless. Not one fcuk could you give about protesters holding up emergency services to people, but as long as its good for a bit of point scoring or political gymnastics that will do it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Nothing whatsoever to do with Bloody Sunday

The soccer hooligans rioting at Lansdowne Rd, would be a better analogy

Remember last weekend in New York  there were protesters, there were rioters and there were looters....3 completely separate groups. She was one of the rioters

And while you are at it, I might as well share another unpopular opinion I have. Who do you clowns from the North think we're funding and arming you in the 1970s and 1980s when you were pariahs in the world stage. Who do you think funded NORAID and organized shipments of arms? Who turned a blind eye to all the illegal fundraisers in the barrooms of South Boston and the Bronx that I saw with my own to eyes

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 02:11:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:52:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:08:29 PM

"I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week."

The "the" refers to the union boss, not the adjective I used to describe him.

You wrote "So this guys officers have been run over by looters, shot, stabbed, spat at, firebombed and had rocks and bottles of urine thrown at them.....and yet in your opinion he's the sc**bag."

At no point did I compare or contrast the union boss and his behaviour with that of the rioters who were shooting, firebombing etc.

I asked you if you think his behaviour was/is appropriate. If you think trying to make a political/PR point against the mayor (a mayor who has been under a lot of fire for his defense of the NYPD BTW) by publishing his daughter's personal details on the internet for all the world to see,in the aftermath of her arrest during a peaceful protest, is appropriate, then just have some balls and say so.

I agree with you he shouldn't have done it, but given what his officers have had to deal with I'm not surprised he did. To say he is a/the sc**bag for doing it is completely off the reservation though

If I were a taxpayer in the city of New York and the Mayors daughter was "peacefully" participating in a riot and blocking emergency vehicles from rendering aid to injured officers, I know who I'd be calling a sc**bag.

1. If you have evidence that she was rioting and blocking emergency vehicles, go ahead and post it.
2. Mullins has a history of inflammatory and ill-advised public pronouncements and posts. He does his union members no favours whatsoever. He is an obnoxious sc**bag who likes to pick on easy targets to make his "points". If the sergeants union ever calls me looking for contributions, they will not get any while he is in charge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:45:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 01:08:29 PM

"I had heard that the sc**bag NYPD sergeants union boss had released her personal details on Twitter after she was arrested during one of the protests last week."

The "the" refers to the union boss, not the adjective I used to describe him.

You wrote "So this guys officers have been run over by looters, shot, stabbed, spat at, firebombed and had rocks and bottles of urine thrown at them.....and yet in your opinion he's the sc**bag."

At no point did I compare or contrast the union boss and his behaviour with that of the rioters who were shooting, firebombing etc.

I asked you if you think his behaviour was/is appropriate. If you think trying to make a political/PR point against the mayor (a mayor who has been under a lot of fire for his defense of the NYPD BTW) by publishing his daughter's personal details on the internet for all the world to see,in the aftermath of her arrest during a peaceful protest, is appropriate, then just have some balls and say so.

Daily Mail published it

He retweeted it

According to who?

They had to take the tweet down within an hour. The Mail still has their story up, albeit without some of the personal ID info.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZZdlOnVcAMStzJ?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2020, 03:33:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 11:35:37 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2020, 03:55:31 AM
What's wrong with her?

(https://i.postimg.cc/KvmSQrjV/Screen-Shot-2020-06-07-at-7-50-14-PM.png)

Not that one. The one where she's half asleep on the train

Why does someone need an intervention if there's a picture of her half asleep on the train?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 04:17:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2020, 03:33:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 11:35:37 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2020, 03:55:31 AM
What's wrong with her?

(https://i.postimg.cc/KvmSQrjV/Screen-Shot-2020-06-07-at-7-50-14-PM.png)

Not that one. The one where she's half asleep on the train

Why does someone need an intervention if there's a picture of her half asleep on the train?


You asked for it

https://mobile.twitter.com/marcbrooks111/status/1269999541647966208/photo/1

I tried to PM you, but for some unknown reason you have me blocked
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 08, 2020, 04:20:40 PM
Might be worth marking that NSFW.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 04:36:50 PM
How did that photo get out? I presume it was private?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 05:03:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 04:36:50 PM
How did that photo get out? I presume it was private?

As I said, she needs serious help. Someone probably snapped it on the Subway....it wasn't a selfie

I did get a chuckle out of the "fvck capitalism" tattoo. I seem to remember her mom at one point had a six figure do nothing job at Bank of America
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 05:14:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 05:03:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 04:36:50 PM
How did that photo get out? I presume it was private?

As I said, she needs serious help. Someone probably snapped it on the Subway....it wasn't a selfie

I did get a chuckle out of the "fvck capitalism" tattoo. I seem to remember her mom at one point had a six figure do nothing job at Bank of America

A boyfriend girlfriend could have snapped it and it could have been subsequently leaked. Doesn't have to be a selfie to be private. Do you have more details to justify your diagnosis?

As for the tatoo, she'd hardly be the first kid to rebel against her parents.

What "do nothing" job did her mother have?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 05:14:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 05:03:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 04:36:50 PM
How did that photo get out? I presume it was private?

As I said, she needs serious help. Someone probably snapped it on the Subway....it wasn't a selfie

I did get a chuckle out of the "fvck capitalism" tattoo. I seem to remember her mom at one point had a six figure do nothing job at Bank of America

A boyfriend girlfriend could have snapped it and it could have been subsequently leaked. Doesn't have to be a selfie to be private. Do you have more details to justify your diagnosis?

As for the tatoo, she'd hardly be the first kid to rebel against her parents.

What "do nothing" job did her mother have?

No I don't have certified copies of her health records, but given her public struggles with addiction and mental illness and the number of times I've been around the block, that's the diagnosis from Dr Whitey.

BTW....how do you feel about your tax dollars being used to help her move apartment last year?

Life is grand
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 05:26:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 05:14:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 05:03:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 04:36:50 PM
How did that photo get out? I presume it was private?

As I said, she needs serious help. Someone probably snapped it on the Subway....it wasn't a selfie

I did get a chuckle out of the "fvck capitalism" tattoo. I seem to remember her mom at one point had a six figure do nothing job at Bank of America

A boyfriend girlfriend could have snapped it and it could have been subsequently leaked. Doesn't have to be a selfie to be private. Do you have more details to justify your diagnosis?

As for the tatoo, she'd hardly be the first kid to rebel against her parents.

What "do nothing" job did her mother have?

No I don't have certified copies of her health records, but given her public struggles with addiction and mental illness and the number of times I've been around the block, that's the diagnosis from Dr Whitey.

BTW....how do you feel about your tax dollars being used to help her move apartment last year?

Life is grand

Such a photo without any context about how it came into existence is not indicative of any mental issue.

The apartment move - very inappropriate use of both taxpayer money AND police time. Sadly, such corruption is a very common problem across the political spectrum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 08, 2020, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Nothing whatsoever to do with Bloody Sunday

The soccer hooligans rioting at Lansdowne Rd, would be a better analogy

Fukk me.

So (according to you) the protesters' grievances are as legitimate as those of a pack of English soccer thugs?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 08, 2020, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Nothing whatsoever to do with Bloody Sunday

The soccer hooligans rioting at Lansdowne Rd, would be a better analogy

Fukk me.

So (according to you) the protesters' grievances are as legitimate as those of a pack of English soccer thugs?

No, not the peaceful protestors......the rioters and the looters "grievances" are equivalent to soccer hooligans-correct

As I asked J70 earlier, if you had a family member fighting for their life and  in need of urgent medical attention and me and a bunch of my mates decided to lie peacefully lie in the middle of the road and block the ambulance, you'd be perfectly fine with that even if it meant your family member died?

Here's what the Mayor of NYC said last Saturday night. "Those who are out there to create violence... we won't tolerate that, you will get arrested tonight."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 08, 2020, 08:07:30 PM
Stop feeding the troll
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 08:16:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 08, 2020, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Nothing whatsoever to do with Bloody Sunday

The soccer hooligans rioting at Lansdowne Rd, would be a better analogy

Fukk me.

So (according to you) the protesters' grievances are as legitimate as those of a pack of English soccer thugs?

No, not the peaceful protestors......the rioters and the looters "grievances" are equivalent to soccer hooligans-correct

As I asked J70 earlier, if you had a family member fighting for their life and  in need of urgent medical attention and me and a bunch of my mates decided to lie peacefully lie in the middle of the road and block the ambulance, you'd be perfectly fine with that even if it meant your family member died?

Here's what the Mayor of NYC said last Saturday night. "Those who are out there to create violence... we won't tolerate that, you will get arrested tonight."

Has anyone here objected to arrests of people blocking ambulances?

Has anyone here objected to the arrest of the mayor's daughter?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 08, 2020, 08:16:15 PM
https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news/kkk-president-arrested-for-hitting-protester-with-his-truck

STOP ANTIFA NOW!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 08, 2020, 08:16:15 PM
https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news/kkk-president-arrested-for-hitting-protester-with-his-truck

STOP ANTIFA NOW!!!

What kind of mental deficiency leads to someone joining an organization like the Klan in this day and age? The guy is 36.
What kind of people is he hanging around that would nurture and tolerate such illogical attitudes?
What did he think the outcome was going to be of driving into crowd of people out demonstrating?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 08, 2020, 08:33:19 PM
According to some clown on cnn if you call the cops in the middle of the night because someone is breaking into your home you are exercising your white privilege, are many  people really thinking like this ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2020, 08:48:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 08:16:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 08, 2020, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Nothing whatsoever to do with Bloody Sunday

The soccer hooligans rioting at Lansdowne Rd, would be a better analogy

Fukk me.

So (according to you) the protesters' grievances are as legitimate as those of a pack of English soccer thugs?

No, not the peaceful protestors......the rioters and the looters "grievances" are equivalent to soccer hooligans-correct

As I asked J70 earlier, if you had a family member fighting for their life and  in need of urgent medical attention and me and a bunch of my mates decided to lie peacefully lie in the middle of the road and block the ambulance, you'd be perfectly fine with that even if it meant your family member died?

Here's what the Mayor of NYC said last Saturday night. "Those who are out there to create violence... we won't tolerate that, you will get arrested tonight."

Has anyone here objected to arrests of people blocking ambulances?

Has anyone here objected to the arrest of the mayor's daughter?

More than one person has equated the rioters with the peaceful Catholic Marchers on Bloody Sunday so effectively yes. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 08, 2020, 08:50:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 08:48:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 08:16:00 PM
Has anyone here objected to arrests of people blocking ambulances?

Has anyone here objected to the arrest of the mayor's daughter?

More than one person has equated the rioters with the peaceful Catholic Marchers on Bloody Sunday so effectively yes.

Please explain...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 08:52:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 08, 2020, 08:33:19 PM
According to some clown on cnn if you call the cops in the middle of the night because someone is breaking into your home you are exercising your white privilege, are many  people really thinking like this ?

Never heard of anyone thinking or saying anything even remotely like that.

But maybe they were suggesting black people might be hesitant to call the police for fear of a bad outcome? Its not exactly unprecedented.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 08, 2020, 09:55:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 08:52:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 08, 2020, 08:33:19 PM
According to some clown on cnn if you call the cops in the middle of the night because someone is breaking into your home you are exercising your white privilege, are many  people really thinking like this ?

Never heard of anyone thinking or saying anything even remotely like that.

But maybe they were suggesting black people might be hesitant to call the police for fear of a bad outcome? Its not exactly unprecedented.

https://twitter.com/eddiezipperer/status/1269951088964370432?s=21

To be fair I'm not sure what she's really on about... surely even with a new community police force you call them when someone is breaking into your house!!??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 08, 2020, 10:01:24 PM
I'd imagine the white privilege point is that one privilege white people have is to call the police to come to their home without worrying that the arriving cops might think the resident is  the intruder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 08, 2020, 10:01:24 PM
I'd imagine the white privilege point is that one privilege white people have is to call the police to come to their home without worrying that the arriving cops might think the resident is  the intruder.

Yep, that's what I was getting at, albeit perhaps not very clearly!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 08, 2020, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 08, 2020, 08:16:15 PM
https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news/kkk-president-arrested-for-hitting-protester-with-his-truck

STOP ANTIFA NOW!!!

What kind of mental deficiency leads to someone joining an organization like the Klan in this day and age? The guy is 36.
What kind of people is he hanging around that would nurture and tolerate such illogical attitudes?
What did he think the outcome was going to be of driving into crowd of people out demonstrating?

People get so radicalized by Fox News, the New York Post, and conservative talk radio up and down the AM dial that they no longer think straight. You only have to listen to our resident deranged conservative on this thread to see what it's like trying to reason with them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2020, 11:48:26 PM
The GOP candidate for US Senate in Oregon

Well worth a watch for those unfamiliar with the lunacy of the Republican Party.

https://youtu.be/-GD19V4PUbY (https://youtu.be/-GD19V4PUbY)

I don't what the best part is: whether its her praying to Jesus to stop George Soros and his funding of all these nationwide protests and riots, whether the protesters are in fact suffering from the effects of ADHD drugs, or, right at the end, the fact that an army raised by Obama, which she thinks she heard about a few years ago, is hitting the streets of Oregon's towns!

Its like satire.

But as I said, a major party candidate for the United States Senate.

Half this country is off their f**king rockers.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 09, 2020, 12:12:00 AM
why was whitey trying to private message me NSFW pictures of Bill De Blasio's daughter?  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 08, 2020, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 08, 2020, 08:16:15 PM
https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news/kkk-president-arrested-for-hitting-protester-with-his-truck

STOP ANTIFA NOW!!!

What kind of mental deficiency leads to someone joining an organization like the Klan in this day and age? The guy is 36.
What kind of people is he hanging around that would nurture and tolerate such illogical attitudes?
What did he think the outcome was going to be of driving into crowd of people out demonstrating?

People get so radicalized by Fox News, the New York Post, and conservative talk radio up and down the AM dial that they no longer think straight. You only have to listen to our resident deranged conservative on this thread to see what it's like trying to reason with them.

So by definition, A lot of Irish immigrants that choose to watch Fox News are stupid, radical, selfish and possibly racist.
Btw, there are a lot of Irish people in the US that have conservative beliefs, ones that got up off their arse and became self made, and became incredibly successful, and are very also generous to those who are less well off.
From what I recall, Obama said that anyone earning >$250k was "rich" and should be paying higher taxes. Bet you they weren't earning $250k when they set up in business, and started from nothing.

Please think before you write such complete deranged tripe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:57:12 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM

So by definition, A lot of Irish immigrants that choose to watch Fox News are stupid, radical, selfish and possibly racist.
No "possibly" about it.

Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM
Btw, there are a lot of Irish people in the US that have conservative beliefs
We've seen what "conservative beliefs" amounts to on this thread. It amounts to little more than "keep the n*****s down".

Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM
From what I recall, Obama said that anyone earning >$250k was "rich" and should be paying higher taxes.
They are rich. And they should pay more taxes. Low tax or no tax for the rich is actual shirking of responsibility, naked greed, sponging off society, pick whichever one you like, or, better still, pick all three if you like.

And it's failed economics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 01:09:12 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 08, 2020, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Nothing whatsoever to do with Bloody Sunday

The soccer hooligans rioting at Lansdowne Rd, would be a better analogy

Fukk me.

So (according to you) the protesters' grievances are as legitimate as those of a pack of English soccer thugs?
I would have thought the England hooligans rioting at Lansdowne was a pretty good comparison to US police - apart from the fact the English didn't actually kill anybody that night - or even hurt anybody properly.

Same ideology though, especially the Combat 18 lot.

Incidentally I was standing down near the bottom corner of the Lansdowne Road end that night with a grandstand view of the whole thing. It really was tremendously exciting to experience for a 15 year old.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2020, 01:27:07 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 08, 2020, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 08, 2020, 08:16:15 PM
https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news/kkk-president-arrested-for-hitting-protester-with-his-truck

STOP ANTIFA NOW!!!

What kind of mental deficiency leads to someone joining an organization like the Klan in this day and age? The guy is 36.
What kind of people is he hanging around that would nurture and tolerate such illogical attitudes?
What did he think the outcome was going to be of driving into crowd of people out demonstrating?

People get so radicalized by Fox News, the New York Post, and conservative talk radio up and down the AM dial that they no longer think straight. You only have to listen to our resident deranged conservative on this thread to see what it's like trying to reason with them.

So by definition, A lot of Irish immigrants that choose to watch Fox News are stupid, radical, selfish and possibly racist.
Btw, there are a lot of Irish people in the US that have conservative beliefs, ones that got up off their arse and became self made, and became incredibly successful, and are very also generous to those who are less well off.
From what I recall, Obama said that anyone earning >$250k was "rich" and should be paying higher taxes. Bet you they weren't earning $250k when they set up in business, and started from nothing.

Please think before you write such complete deranged tripe.

Probably weren't, and would probably have appreciated a relatively lower tax burden than they would have been expected to pay in the eventuality that they did become successful.

As of 2014, according to this WSJ calculator, if you earned $250K, you earned more than 98% of American people.

https://graphics.wsj.com/what-percent/ (https://graphics.wsj.com/what-percent/)

If you want to argue that 98th percentile and up in terms of earnings is not rich, you'll have to define what rich means these days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 09, 2020, 02:10:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 01:09:12 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 08, 2020, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Nothing whatsoever to do with Bloody Sunday

The soccer hooligans rioting at Lansdowne Rd, would be a better analogy

Fukk me.

So (according to you) the protesters' grievances are as legitimate as those of a pack of English soccer thugs?
I would have thought the England hooligans rioting at Lansdowne was a pretty good comparison to US police - apart from the fact the English didn't actually kill anybody that night - or even hurt anybody properly.

Same ideology though, especially the Combat 18 lot.

Incidentally I was standing down near the bottom corner of the Lansdowne Road end that night with a grandstand view of the whole thing. It really was tremendously exciting to experience for a 15 year old.

Hey Sid, check this video out......maybe you can hook up with her on Tinder and compare notes in how you are oppressed?

https://youtu.be/TynqK1TX4zI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 02:11:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:57:12 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM

So by definition, A lot of Irish immigrants that choose to watch Fox News are stupid, radical, selfish and possibly racist.
No "possibly" about it.

Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM
Btw, there are a lot of Irish people in the US that have conservative beliefs
We've seen what "conservative beliefs" amounts to on this thread. It amounts to little more than "keep the n*****s down".

Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM
From what I recall, Obama said that anyone earning >$250k was "rich" and should be paying higher taxes.
They are rich. And they should pay more taxes. Low tax or no tax for the rich is actual shirking of responsibility, naked greed, sponging off society, pick whichever one you like, or, better still, pick all three if you like.

And it's failed economics.

Quite the educated analysis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 04:21:45 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 09, 2020, 12:12:00 AM
why was whitey trying to private message me NSFW pictures of Bill De Blasio's daughter?  :o

Because he wants to violate Rule 6 and get a 5-day ban. Quoth the rules:

Quote6. Posting unsuitable links or pictures
   This board is not a pornography resource and pornography will not be tolerated on this site. Many of our users access the board from work, and anyone posting pictures
   on this board need to bear that in mind. Obviously some pictures fall short of pornography, and can be posted in the proper threads, such as the 'Would
   you/wouldn't you' thread, but even these need to be marked NSFW. In any case, any pornographic images will be deleted and bans handed out. This rule also applies to
   personal avatars displayed beside your username when you post.

   Penalties - 1st Offence  5 Day Ban, 2rd Offence - Permanent Ban
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:22:50 AM
The US officially went into recession in February, ending 11 years of continuous growth that began under Obama after he fixed Bush's mess.

https://apnews.com/31ffad3ea17ef1d07e2724dd8fc25d50

Couple of interesting nuggets:

"...the NBER typically waits longer before making a determination that the economy is in a downturn. ... But in this case, the NBER said the collapse in employment and incomes was so steep that it could much more quickly make a determination."

and

"A broader measure of underemployment that includes those who have given up looking and those who have been reduced to part-time status is 21.2%."

Not looking good for Trump's reelection now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Seems like Trump's lash-out-at-the-media-and-shoot-the-messenger strategy is paying off.

But if Biden does get in somehow, I could see him serving one term and then someone like Newsom having a go.

I wouldn't write Biden off yet. It's a long way to November and a lot of dead bodies are going to be piled up between now and then thanks to Donald. A lot will depend on how successful he is in shifting blame away from himself. He'll take credit for anything that goes right and deflect blame for anything that goes wrong, which will play well with the religious crowd who are used to doing that sort of thing with God. I don't know if it'll be enough with swing voters though.
Well well well. Trump starting to get it tight again. Maybe his supporters are dropping dead with the virus.

2020 winner:
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Wheisht! Trump getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Well well well. Now it's even. Trump's odds of reelection are in freefall. As the covid death toll mounts and the riots spread, I expect to see him get even more desperate. Expect more scapegoating of China, Mexico, immigrants, and people of colour in the next few months. That includes you, Whitey. I assume you're an immigrant. Don't for one minute think he has your back.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10

Joe seems to be the favourite for the first time. Trump's odds are definitely drifting and Biden's are shortening. Still a bit close for my liking though.
2020 winner:
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10

The "violent protests are hurting Biden" theory doesn't seem to be holding up. His odds are still shortening and Trump's are still drifting. Biden is now the favourite.

2020 winner:
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10

2020 winner:
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:30:57 AM
Trump's approval rating is still sinking, has been since it peaked in early April. Currently at 41.1% approve, 54.7% disapprove. Has there been a more hated president in polling history?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:50:58 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103533540_896847190820322_4591017148640735828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=bSddlxUHD9QAX-fCL77&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=277241bff7e11ac63e06ad35e68ba1a0&oe=5F03C8FE)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 10:40:16 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 02:11:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:57:12 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM

So by definition, A lot of Irish immigrants that choose to watch Fox News are stupid, radical, selfish and possibly racist.
No "possibly" about it.

Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM
Btw, there are a lot of Irish people in the US that have conservative beliefs
We've seen what "conservative beliefs" amounts to on this thread. It amounts to little more than "keep the n*****s down".

Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM
From what I recall, Obama said that anyone earning >$250k was "rich" and should be paying higher taxes.
They are rich. And they should pay more taxes. Low tax or no tax for the rich is actual shirking of responsibility, naked greed, sponging off society, pick whichever one you like, or, better still, pick all three if you like.

And it's failed economics.

Quite the educated analysis.
Thanks, it's an analysis shared by most of the world.

Maybe if you got out of your little thought bubble for a while, you might share it too.

Existing in a thought bubble has always been a massive problem with supporters of white supremacist regimes such as the Nazis, the Apartheid regime in South Africa, the British Empire and the white supremacists of the USA.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:07:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.
As I suspected, you didn't have much of a comeback.

You should probably read that line again to yourself and see who's acting what.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:07:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.
As I suspected, you didn't have much of a comeback.

You should probably read that line again to yourself and see who's acting what.

Don't worry. Mine was just an opinion. I just find the way you debate to be painful to read. You antagonize in my eyes rather than debate. J70 and Eamon would also share many of your views but they manage to say it without the hyperbole that you are prone to. But that's because they have a different approach. It's obvious you post to get into a row rather than a debate. As in, the actual row is more important than what your debating. With the others, rows happen, but they weren't the objective.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 09, 2020, 11:38:19 AM
Quote from: joemamas on June 09, 2020, 12:42:21 AM
So by definition, A lot of Irish immigrants that choose to watch Fox News are stupid, radical, selfish and possibly racist.

If they watch Fox News and don't get their information from anywhere else, then unfortunately they cannot help but have their world view shaped (badly) by Fox.

No child is intrinsically racist. Its a learned behaviour.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ml0U9Os.jpg)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:48:54 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:07:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.
As I suspected, you didn't have much of a comeback.

You should probably read that line again to yourself and see who's acting what.

Don't worry. Mine was just an opinion. I just find the way you debate to be painful to read. You antagonize in my eyes rather than debate. J70 and Eamon would also share many of your views but they manage to say it without the hyperbole that you are prone to. But that's because they have a different approach. It's obvious you post to get into a row rather than a debate. As in, the actual row is more important than what your debating. With the others, rows happen, but they weren't the objective.
Being "antagonised" is very much in the eye of the beholder.

And what I mean by that is, it is a function of a certain personality type who, rather than being open to challenge in terms of the views they hold, decides to take offence when the stupidity of their views is pointed out and they cannot defend them.

That isn't my problem. It's the problem of the people who hold those stupid views.

See, it's quite interesting, because, for a while around 16/17 years ago I flirted with some views that I now recognise were idiotic and indeed bigoted. I moaned about "crazy feminists". I used to have idiotic views about workers' rights. I also had low-level internalised homophobia, in that I didn't have a problem with gayness per se, but I didn't like the gays "flaunting their gayness" or some such utter nonsense. I had quite the liking for professional contrarian "tell it like it is" types, who I now recognise as utter charlatans. I'd voice these sort of views quite stridently in say, sociology tutorials in college, where I'd be promptly told where to go by people who had a much better idea of what they were talking about than I did.

Within a short time, I recognised that these views that I was holding were utter bunkum. I didn't change my views because of "persuasion". I changed them because I made a fool of myself when I couldn't defend them, and other people made a fool of me by destroying what I had to say - they exposed that my views weren't based on reason or logic, they were based on internalised, learned prejudice.

I could have chosen to feel "antagonised" - in fact I did for a short time - but I then accepted those people who made a fool of me were dead right, and so I learned how to think, and changed my views.






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:57:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:48:54 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:07:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.
As I suspected, you didn't have much of a comeback.

You should probably read that line again to yourself and see who's acting what.

Don't worry. Mine was just an opinion. I just find the way you debate to be painful to read. You antagonize in my eyes rather than debate. J70 and Eamon would also share many of your views but they manage to say it without the hyperbole that you are prone to. But that's because they have a different approach. It's obvious you post to get into a row rather than a debate. As in, the actual row is more important than what your debating. With the others, rows happen, but they weren't the objective.
Being "antagonised" is very much in the eye of the beholder.

And what I mean by that is, it is a function of a certain personality type who, rather than being open to challenge in terms of the views they hold, decides to take offence when the stupidity of their views is pointed out and they cannot defend them.

That isn't my problem. It's the problem of the people who hold those stupid views.

See, it's quite interesting, because, for a while around 16/17 years ago I flirted with some views that I now recognise were idiotic and indeed bigoted. I moaned about "crazy feminists". I used to have idiotic views about workers' rights. I also had low-level internalised homophobia, in that I didn't have a problem with gayness per se, but I didn't like the gays "flaunting their gayness" or some such utter nonsense. I had quite the liking for professional contrarian "tell it like it is" types, who I now recognise as utter charlatans. I'd voice these sort of views quite stridently in say, sociology tutorials in college, where I'd be promptly told where to go by people who had a much better idea of what they were talking about than I did.

Within a short time, I recognised that these views that I was holding were utter bunkum. I didn't change my views because of "persuasion". I changed them because I made a fool of myself when I couldn't defend them, and other people made a fool of me by destroying what I had to say - they exposed that my views weren't based on reason or logic, they were based on internalised, learned prejudice.

I could have chosen to feel "antagonised", but instead I accepted those people who made a fool of me were dead right, and so I learned how to think, and changed my views.

That was you. Other people who might be open to debating and rational persuasion.  These people may become more entrenched when attacked in the manor you do. No one likes being told they are wrong. But there's a right way to do it in my eyes. 
Also the thing is that your not trying to antagonise me. I share most of your views (To an extent), I just don't particularly like how you present them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:19:21 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:57:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:48:54 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:07:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.
As I suspected, you didn't have much of a comeback.

You should probably read that line again to yourself and see who's acting what.

Don't worry. Mine was just an opinion. I just find the way you debate to be painful to read. You antagonize in my eyes rather than debate. J70 and Eamon would also share many of your views but they manage to say it without the hyperbole that you are prone to. But that's because they have a different approach. It's obvious you post to get into a row rather than a debate. As in, the actual row is more important than what your debating. With the others, rows happen, but they weren't the objective.
Being "antagonised" is very much in the eye of the beholder.

And what I mean by that is, it is a function of a certain personality type who, rather than being open to challenge in terms of the views they hold, decides to take offence when the stupidity of their views is pointed out and they cannot defend them.

That isn't my problem. It's the problem of the people who hold those stupid views.

See, it's quite interesting, because, for a while around 16/17 years ago I flirted with some views that I now recognise were idiotic and indeed bigoted. I moaned about "crazy feminists". I used to have idiotic views about workers' rights. I also had low-level internalised homophobia, in that I didn't have a problem with gayness per se, but I didn't like the gays "flaunting their gayness" or some such utter nonsense. I had quite the liking for professional contrarian "tell it like it is" types, who I now recognise as utter charlatans. I'd voice these sort of views quite stridently in say, sociology tutorials in college, where I'd be promptly told where to go by people who had a much better idea of what they were talking about than I did.

Within a short time, I recognised that these views that I was holding were utter bunkum. I didn't change my views because of "persuasion". I changed them because I made a fool of myself when I couldn't defend them, and other people made a fool of me by destroying what I had to say - they exposed that my views weren't based on reason or logic, they were based on internalised, learned prejudice.

I could have chosen to feel "antagonised", but instead I accepted those people who made a fool of me were dead right, and so I learned how to think, and changed my views.

That was you. Other people who might be open to debating and rational persuasion.  These people may become more entrenched when attacked in the manor you do. No one likes being told they are wrong. But there's a right way to do it in my eyes. 
Also the thing is that your not trying to antagonise me. I share most of your views (To an extent), I just don't particularly like how you present them.
I present my views very rationally. I look at the situation in America and say what I see. I'm not interested in whether I hurt people's feelings or not.

The truth is the best persuader. Sadly we are in a situation where a hell of a lot of people have been brainwashed into rejecting truth in favour of waging a weird right-wing cultural and racial identity war. Those people are not going to be persuaded unless they make the conscious decision in their own minds to reject such brainwashing, and the propensity of evidence on this forum shows that the posters who have bought into such insanity have no intention whatsoever of rejecting it.

Given that, one might as well expose the true insanity and extreme nature of their views.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 09, 2020, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 11:48:26 PM
The GOP candidate for US Senate in Oregon

Well worth a watch for those unfamiliar with the lunacy of the Republican Party.

https://youtu.be/-GD19V4PUbY (https://youtu.be/-GD19V4PUbY)

I don't what the best part is: whether its her praying to Jesus to stop George Soros and his funding of all these nationwide protests and riots, whether the protesters are in fact suffering from the effects of ADHD drugs, or, right at the end, the fact that an army raised by Obama, which she thinks she heard about a few years ago, is hitting the streets of Oregon's towns!

Its like satire.

But as I said, a major party candidate for the United States Senate.

Half this country is off their f**king rockers.
Jo Rae Perkins got 50% of the Oregon republican primary vote, one could extrapolate that
at least 50% of republicans believe in the power and desperate need  of the biblical "warring angels" to wage war against George Soros who is Satan, public enemy  nr 1 and naturally is the one who's behind the civil protests and other social disturbances. Apart from Obama that is, who's Satan's agent and founded a secret army 2 years ago.
Because George Soros has not openly denied that he's satan, therefore it is true.
Aparrantly in Jo Rae's mindset, Satan would not tell a lie and deny he's Satan.

In the last Irish presidential election Peter Casey only had to mention the word "Traveller" and his vote received an immediate bigot/racist boost of 20%. What if he had held a bible under his arm when doing those interviews? perhaps he would have received the magical treble turbo boost of the bigot, the racist and the evangelical vote?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 09, 2020, 12:37:51 PM
Sid.....it must be great to live in lala land.

You wouldn't last 2 minutes on the South Side of Chicago before you were either murdered or seriously assaulted by the people you claim solidarity with
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 01:39:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2020, 12:37:51 PM
Sid.....it must be great to live in lala land.

You wouldn't last 2 minutes on the South Side of Chicago before you were either murdered or seriously assaulted by the people you claim solidarity with
Again, this poster is trying to justify racism as rational - and it's far from the first time he's done it.

That's exactly what the Nazis did.

Quite the irony that somebody with literal Nazi ideology tells others they "live in lala land".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 09, 2020, 02:16:06 PM
And people talk about Bidens mental capacities being in question

(https://i.postimg.cc/13WfBY5W/20200609-060448.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 09, 2020, 02:26:28 PM
Wow!!!!

That's a stretch even for him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 09, 2020, 02:29:23 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 09, 2020, 02:26:28 PM
Wow!!!!

That's a stretch even for him

LOL-Twitter meltdown in progress
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2020, 02:40:02 PM
WTF??? :o :o ;D ;D

Although I don't know if we should even laugh...

This fuckwit IS president after all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2020, 02:42:12 PM
Here's Exhibit A for Trump and the sleuths at OAN. Did the referee falll harder than Paolo DiCanio pushed him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9CLiDqYfLc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9CLiDqYfLc)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on June 09, 2020, 04:42:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:07:47 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.

Take your beating!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 09, 2020, 05:15:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2020, 02:40:02 PM
WTF??? :o :o ;D ;D

Although I don't know if we should even laugh...

This fuckwit IS president after all.

Not sure what is worse the tweet or the amount of idiots that liked the tweet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:07:47 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.

Take your beating!

lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:17:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:48:54 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:07:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.
As I suspected, you didn't have much of a comeback.

You should probably read that line again to yourself and see who's acting what.

Don't worry. Mine was just an opinion. I just find the way you debate to be painful to read. You antagonize in my eyes rather than debate. J70 and Eamon would also share many of your views but they manage to say it without the hyperbole that you are prone to. But that's because they have a different approach. It's obvious you post to get into a row rather than a debate. As in, the actual row is more important than what your debating. With the others, rows happen, but they weren't the objective.
Being "antagonised" is very much in the eye of the beholder.

And what I mean by that is, it is a function of a certain personality type who, rather than being open to challenge in terms of the views they hold, decides to take offence when the stupidity of their views is pointed out and they cannot defend them.

That isn't my problem. It's the problem of the people who hold those stupid views.

See, it's quite interesting, because, for a while around 16/17 years ago I flirted with some views that I now recognise were idiotic and indeed bigoted. I moaned about "crazy feminists". I used to have idiotic views about workers' rights. I also had low-level internalised homophobia, in that I didn't have a problem with gayness per se, but I didn't like the gays "flaunting their gayness" or some such utter nonsense. I had quite the liking for professional contrarian "tell it like it is" types, who I now recognise as utter charlatans. I'd voice these sort of views quite stridently in say, sociology tutorials in college, where I'd be promptly told where to go by people who had a much better idea of what they were talking about than I did.

Within a short time, I recognised that these views that I was holding were utter bunkum. I didn't change my views because of "persuasion". I changed them because I made a fool of myself when I couldn't defend them, and other people made a fool of me by destroying what I had to say - they exposed that my views weren't based on reason or logic, they were based on internalised, learned prejudice.

I could have chosen to feel "antagonised" - in fact I did for a short time - but I then accepted those people who made a fool of me were dead right, and so I learned how to think, and changed my views.

Great post, and I can relate. When I was a teenager I had internalized some mildly homophobic views based on what people around me were saying in my small town. But when I went off to uni in England I was exposed to more diverse viewpoints and I soon wised up. There's no merit in clinging to an outdated worldview in the face of overwhelming evidence that you were full of sh1t all along. If people feel like idiots when they realize the game is up, the way to stop feeling like an idiot is to dump the prejudice and bigotry.

People don't like being told they're wrong? People feel uncomfortable when they're corrected? That's the whole idea! They should feel uncomfortable! They should feel foolish. They should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone clinging to Nazi views should feel like a fool, and if they don't like that sensation then they should just stop being a Nazi.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 05:19:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:17:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:48:54 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:07:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
It's weird. Sid's views in general would be somewhat in line with my own in a lot of aspects. But I just can't help but think what a c**k he is on this thread.

It's that I'm too unapologetic in my views, isn't it? I'm too "uppity"? I don't show enough "deference" for those with bigoted views?

Being unapologetic tends to make people who come from a background of privilege uncomfortable, alright.

And those who such views make uncomfortable should examine exacty why such views make them uncomfortable.

There are a hell of a lot of views posted on this thread that should make people very, very uncomfortable indeed, but mine aren't among them.

Naw it's just that you act like a c**k.
As I suspected, you didn't have much of a comeback.

You should probably read that line again to yourself and see who's acting what.

Don't worry. Mine was just an opinion. I just find the way you debate to be painful to read. You antagonize in my eyes rather than debate. J70 and Eamon would also share many of your views but they manage to say it without the hyperbole that you are prone to. But that's because they have a different approach. It's obvious you post to get into a row rather than a debate. As in, the actual row is more important than what your debating. With the others, rows happen, but they weren't the objective.
Being "antagonised" is very much in the eye of the beholder.

And what I mean by that is, it is a function of a certain personality type who, rather than being open to challenge in terms of the views they hold, decides to take offence when the stupidity of their views is pointed out and they cannot defend them.

That isn't my problem. It's the problem of the people who hold those stupid views.

See, it's quite interesting, because, for a while around 16/17 years ago I flirted with some views that I now recognise were idiotic and indeed bigoted. I moaned about "crazy feminists". I used to have idiotic views about workers' rights. I also had low-level internalised homophobia, in that I didn't have a problem with gayness per se, but I didn't like the gays "flaunting their gayness" or some such utter nonsense. I had quite the liking for professional contrarian "tell it like it is" types, who I now recognise as utter charlatans. I'd voice these sort of views quite stridently in say, sociology tutorials in college, where I'd be promptly told where to go by people who had a much better idea of what they were talking about than I did.

Within a short time, I recognised that these views that I was holding were utter bunkum. I didn't change my views because of "persuasion". I changed them because I made a fool of myself when I couldn't defend them, and other people made a fool of me by destroying what I had to say - they exposed that my views weren't based on reason or logic, they were based on internalised, learned prejudice.

I could have chosen to feel "antagonised" - in fact I did for a short time - but I then accepted those people who made a fool of me were dead right, and so I learned how to think, and changed my views.

Great post, and I can relate. When I was a teenager I had internalized some mildly homophobic views based on what people around me were saying in my small town. But when I went off to uni in England I was exposed to more diverse viewpoints and I soon wised up. There's no merit in clinging to an outdated worldview in the face of overwhelming evidence that you were full of sh1t all along. If people feel like idiots when they realize the game is up, the way to stop feeling like an idiot is to dump the prejudice and bigotry.

People don't like being told they're wrong? People feel uncomfortable when they're corrected? That's the whole idea! They should feel uncomfortable! They should feel foolish. They should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone clinging to Nazi views should feel like a fool, and if they don't like that sensation then they should just stop being a Nazi.

Yeah actually maybe it's just J70 that isn't a c**k then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:43:47 PM
Let's face it. When your only reply is "you're a c**k" then you've pretty much admitted defeat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:43:47 PM
Let's face it. When your only reply is "you're a c**k" then you've pretty much admitted defeat.

That's the issue right there. Your out to try and get a feeling of victory. What exactly was I defeated in?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 06:24:18 PM
Glorious debating battle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 09, 2020, 06:43:38 PM
So the la council woman who introduced a motion to cut lapd budget by 150m has had cop detail outside her home since April and when contacted about it canceled it , also a professor at UCLA is under police protection after he dared to make minority students do a final exam in the wake of recent events. Sad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2020, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2020, 06:43:38 PM
So the la council woman who introduced a motion to cut lapd budget by 150m has had cop detail outside her home since April and when contacted about it canceled it , also a professor at UCLA is under police protection after he dared to make minority students do a final exam in the wake of recent events. Sad

Details?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 09, 2020, 07:28:09 PM
You'll have to go to the Washington Free Beacon for that second story
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2020, 07:54:28 PM
Read a little bit on him (assuming its the same guy, Klein). Looks like he wrote a catty email in response to the request and ruffled some feathers unnecessarily. But, yeah, threats to his life are way, way overboard, if true. Presumably it will be properly investigated.

As for the council woman, haven't read about that one, but if as Gmac suggests, then obviously bog-standard political hypocrisy. Presumably she's well embarrassed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2020, 02:07:00 PM
A couple of morons in New Jersey have lost their jobs for staging a "counterprotest" in which they kneeled on someone's neck. Apparently FedEx fired their guy, while the NJ state Department of Corrections have suspended the one who was an officer there.

I can imagine their surprise when they found their employers didn't want to be associated with their conduct.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/nyregion/james-demarco-franklinville-george-floyd-protest.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/nyregion/james-demarco-franklinville-george-floyd-protest.html)

(https://www.walikali.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Joe-and-Jim-DeMarco-770x400.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 10, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Anybody who doesn't believe me when I say the election will be fixed in favour of Trump should take a look at the carry on in Georgia last night.

The plan to deny democracy is literally hiding in plain sight, as it has been for decades, but never more so than now. This issue needs to be front and centre for the next five months to have any hope of stopping it in its tracks.

What's going on is straight out of Russia, as is everything Trump and the Republicans do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 10, 2020, 05:50:06 PM
Lock him up. And impeach the nakedly corrupt William Barr. Lock up all the corrupt criminals in this corrupt, criminal regime, actually.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/gleeson-flynn-sullivan-barr-justice-department-311018

Ex-judge tapped to review Flynn case blasts DOJ for 'pretextual' effort to drop charges
The retired judge, John Gleeson, said the Justice Department had improperly bowed to the will of President Donald Trump.

By JOSH GERSTEIN and KYLE CHENEY

06/10/2020 12:36 PM EDT

A former judge selected to advise on a path forward in the criminal case against Michael Flynn is accusing the Justice Department of distorting the justice system to protect an ally of President Donald Trump by attempting to shut down the prosecution.

The former federal judge, John Gleeson, is recommending that the judge handling the case instead proceed to sentence the former Trump national security adviser on the false-statement charge he admitted to two-and-a-half years ago.

"The facts surrounding the filing of the Government's motion constitute clear evidence of gross prosecutorial abuse. They reveal an unconvincing effort to disguise as legitimate a decision to dismiss that is based solely on the fact that Flynn is a political ally of President Trump," Gleeson wrote in a filing Wednesday with Washington-based U.S. District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan, who formally tapped Gleeson to weigh in as a friend of the court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2020, 05:50:06 PM
Lock him up. And impeach the nakedly corrupt William Barr. Lock up all the corrupt criminals in this corrupt, criminal regime, actually.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/gleeson-flynn-sullivan-barr-justice-department-311018

Ex-judge tapped to review Flynn case blasts DOJ for 'pretextual' effort to drop charges
The retired judge, John Gleeson, said the Justice Department had improperly bowed to the will of President Donald Trump.

By JOSH GERSTEIN and KYLE CHENEY

06/10/2020 12:36 PM EDT

A former judge selected to advise on a path forward in the criminal case against Michael Flynn is accusing the Justice Department of distorting the justice system to protect an ally of President Donald Trump by attempting to shut down the prosecution.

The former federal judge, John Gleeson, is recommending that the judge handling the case instead proceed to sentence the former Trump national security adviser on the false-statement charge he admitted to two-and-a-half years ago.

"The facts surrounding the filing of the Government's motion constitute clear evidence of gross prosecutorial abuse. They reveal an unconvincing effort to disguise as legitimate a decision to dismiss that is based solely on the fact that Flynn is a political ally of President Trump," Gleeson wrote in a filing Wednesday with Washington-based U.S. District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan, who formally tapped Gleeson to weigh in as a friend of the court.
so the left leaning  judge who appointed another left leaning judge to look over the matter doesn't agree with the right leaning Barr wow ,
Something I rarely comment on but I think it is relevant with Blm so much in the news these days 18 black people were murdered in Chicago on May 31st and over weekend 24 were killed and 85 injured by gunfire pretty staggering numbers .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2020, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2020, 05:50:06 PM
Lock him up. And impeach the nakedly corrupt William Barr. Lock up all the corrupt criminals in this corrupt, criminal regime, actually.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/gleeson-flynn-sullivan-barr-justice-department-311018

Ex-judge tapped to review Flynn case blasts DOJ for 'pretextual' effort to drop charges
The retired judge, John Gleeson, said the Justice Department had improperly bowed to the will of President Donald Trump.

By JOSH GERSTEIN and KYLE CHENEY

06/10/2020 12:36 PM EDT

A former judge selected to advise on a path forward in the criminal case against Michael Flynn is accusing the Justice Department of distorting the justice system to protect an ally of President Donald Trump by attempting to shut down the prosecution.

The former federal judge, John Gleeson, is recommending that the judge handling the case instead proceed to sentence the former Trump national security adviser on the false-statement charge he admitted to two-and-a-half years ago.

"The facts surrounding the filing of the Government's motion constitute clear evidence of gross prosecutorial abuse. They reveal an unconvincing effort to disguise as legitimate a decision to dismiss that is based solely on the fact that Flynn is a political ally of President Trump," Gleeson wrote in a filing Wednesday with Washington-based U.S. District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan, who formally tapped Gleeson to weigh in as a friend of the court.
so the left leaning  judge who appointed another left leaning judge to look over the matter doesn't agree with the right leaning Barr wow ,
Something I rarely comment on but I think it is relevant with Blm so much in the news these days 18 black people were murdered in Chicago on May 31st and over weekend 24 were killed and 85 injured by gunfire pretty staggering numbers .

And?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 09:01:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2020, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2020, 05:50:06 PM
Lock him up. And impeach the nakedly corrupt William Barr. Lock up all the corrupt criminals in this corrupt, criminal regime, actually.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/gleeson-flynn-sullivan-barr-justice-department-311018

Ex-judge tapped to review Flynn case blasts DOJ for 'pretextual' effort to drop charges
The retired judge, John Gleeson, said the Justice Department had improperly bowed to the will of President Donald Trump.

By JOSH GERSTEIN and KYLE CHENEY

06/10/2020 12:36 PM EDT

A former judge selected to advise on a path forward in the criminal case against Michael Flynn is accusing the Justice Department of distorting the justice system to protect an ally of President Donald Trump by attempting to shut down the prosecution.

The former federal judge, John Gleeson, is recommending that the judge handling the case instead proceed to sentence the former Trump national security adviser on the false-statement charge he admitted to two-and-a-half years ago.

"The facts surrounding the filing of the Government's motion constitute clear evidence of gross prosecutorial abuse. They reveal an unconvincing effort to disguise as legitimate a decision to dismiss that is based solely on the fact that Flynn is a political ally of President Trump," Gleeson wrote in a filing Wednesday with Washington-based U.S. District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan, who formally tapped Gleeson to weigh in as a friend of the court.
so the left leaning  judge who appointed another left leaning judge to look over the matter doesn't agree with the right leaning Barr wow ,
Something I rarely comment on but I think it is relevant with Blm so much in the news these days 18 black people were murdered in Chicago on May 31st and over weekend 24 were killed and 85 injured by gunfire pretty staggering numbers .

And?
not hearing anything from blm on this do blm not natter for any of these murders and shootings. and is the figure not staggering to you ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2020, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 09:01:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2020, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2020, 05:50:06 PM
Lock him up. And impeach the nakedly corrupt William Barr. Lock up all the corrupt criminals in this corrupt, criminal regime, actually.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/gleeson-flynn-sullivan-barr-justice-department-311018

Ex-judge tapped to review Flynn case blasts DOJ for 'pretextual' effort to drop charges
The retired judge, John Gleeson, said the Justice Department had improperly bowed to the will of President Donald Trump.

By JOSH GERSTEIN and KYLE CHENEY

06/10/2020 12:36 PM EDT

A former judge selected to advise on a path forward in the criminal case against Michael Flynn is accusing the Justice Department of distorting the justice system to protect an ally of President Donald Trump by attempting to shut down the prosecution.

The former federal judge, John Gleeson, is recommending that the judge handling the case instead proceed to sentence the former Trump national security adviser on the false-statement charge he admitted to two-and-a-half years ago.

"The facts surrounding the filing of the Government's motion constitute clear evidence of gross prosecutorial abuse. They reveal an unconvincing effort to disguise as legitimate a decision to dismiss that is based solely on the fact that Flynn is a political ally of President Trump," Gleeson wrote in a filing Wednesday with Washington-based U.S. District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan, who formally tapped Gleeson to weigh in as a friend of the court.
so the left leaning  judge who appointed another left leaning judge to look over the matter doesn't agree with the right leaning Barr wow ,
Something I rarely comment on but I think it is relevant with Blm so much in the news these days 18 black people were murdered in Chicago on May 31st and over weekend 24 were killed and 85 injured by gunfire pretty staggering numbers .

And?
not hearing anything from blm on this do blm not natter for any of these murders and shootings. and is the figure not staggering to you ?

Of course its a shocking figure.

I've no idea what BLM does on the ground in Chicago, or if they do anything.

But I'm pretty sure there are all kinds of people in the black community there working their arses off to try to fix the social and gang problems in that city.

Have you looked into that at all?

Or is this just another "black on black crime", "Chicago" attempt to change the subject BLM are trying to address?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 09:56:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2020, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 09:01:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2020, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2020, 05:50:06 PM
Lock him up. And impeach the nakedly corrupt William Barr. Lock up all the corrupt criminals in this corrupt, criminal regime, actually.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/gleeson-flynn-sullivan-barr-justice-department-311018

Ex-judge tapped to review Flynn case blasts DOJ for 'pretextual' effort to drop charges
The retired judge, John Gleeson, said the Justice Department had improperly bowed to the will of President Donald Trump.

By JOSH GERSTEIN and KYLE CHENEY

06/10/2020 12:36 PM EDT

A former judge selected to advise on a path forward in the criminal case against Michael Flynn is accusing the Justice Department of distorting the justice system to protect an ally of President Donald Trump by attempting to shut down the prosecution.

The former federal judge, John Gleeson, is recommending that the judge handling the case instead proceed to sentence the former Trump national security adviser on the false-statement charge he admitted to two-and-a-half years ago.

"The facts surrounding the filing of the Government's motion constitute clear evidence of gross prosecutorial abuse. They reveal an unconvincing effort to disguise as legitimate a decision to dismiss that is based solely on the fact that Flynn is a political ally of President Trump," Gleeson wrote in a filing Wednesday with Washington-based U.S. District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan, who formally tapped Gleeson to weigh in as a friend of the court.
so the left leaning  judge who appointed another left leaning judge to look over the matter doesn't agree with the right leaning Barr wow ,
Something I rarely comment on but I think it is relevant with Blm so much in the news these days 18 black people were murdered in Chicago on May 31st and over weekend 24 were killed and 85 injured by gunfire pretty staggering numbers .

And?
not hearing anything from blm on this do blm not natter for any of these murders and shootings. and is the figure not staggering to you ?

Of course its a shocking figure.

I've no idea what BLM does on the ground in Chicago, or if they do anything.

But I'm pretty sure there are all kinds of people in the black community there working their arses off to try to fix the social and gang problems in that city.

Have you looked into that at all?

Or is this just another "black on black crime", "Chicago" attempt to change the subject BLM are trying to address?
Have you heard any of the call between the mayor and the dem alderman there she says in the call that she couldn't give a fu$k what's going on in the street as he begs for help controlling his district  , a shambles of a mayor and a disaster for the already under siege black community there .  Better for her to say fu$k the police than do something constructive for her city . Paint slogans do nothing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Okay, sorry for the mishap with the last one, I've fixed it below, and the latest odds are at the bottom:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

Bernie's odds are slipping slightly in the general election, but he's still the favourite to get the nomination.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 13/4
Bloomberg: 6/1
Buttigieg:20/1

This stock market crash might throw a spanner in the works. It was this kind of October surprise that worked in Obama's favor in 2008 when "the fundamentals of our economy [were] strong" until they weren't. Trump might cruise to reelection if the economy stays strong, but the coronavirus could change all that.

Get in there Bernie!

Delegate count:
Sanders: 58
Biden: 50
Buttigeig: 26 (I wonder what happens to delegates after a candidate pulls out)
Warren: 8
Klobuchar: 7

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Biden: 5/2
Bloomberg: 7/1
Hillary Clinton(!): 33/1

This is the first we've seen Trump's odds moving in a while. Could be the coronavirus effect. Damned if I know why they're showing odds for Hillary instead of the likes of Warren or Klobuchar who are actually in the race.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/8
Sanders: 9/1

Trump getting it tight. Looking good for Biden if these odds keep moving the way they are. If he puts Warren on his ticket as VP, that should pick up enough Bernie supporters in November. This could be the light at the end of the tunnel.

Delegate count:
Biden 664
Sanders 573

2020 winner:
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/7
Sanders: 9/1
Delegate count:
Biden 857
Sanders 709

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/14
Sanders: 40/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/16
Sanders: 33/1

The trend is unmistakable.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 25/1

Game over for Trump, it seems. Although it's a long way to November, but I'm not sure how he can come back from this. He can't lie or spin his way out of this. Not even Fox News can help him when the dead start piling up.

From what I saw of the debate it looked like Bernie was knocking it out of the park while Joe was wandering off into the weeds.  Still, Bernie seems to be getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Democratic candidate:
Biden: 1/12
Sanders: 40/1

Funny old game.

2020 winner:
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

WTF is the matter with people?

2020 winner:
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Seems like Trump's lash-out-at-the-media-and-shoot-the-messenger strategy is paying off.

But if Biden does get in somehow, I could see him serving one term and then someone like Newsom having a go.

I wouldn't write Biden off yet. It's a long way to November and a lot of dead bodies are going to be piled up between now and then thanks to Donald. A lot will depend on how successful he is in shifting blame away from himself. He'll take credit for anything that goes right and deflect blame for anything that goes wrong, which will play well with the religious crowd who are used to doing that sort of thing with God. I don't know if it'll be enough with swing voters though.
Well well well. Trump starting to get it tight again. Maybe his supporters are dropping dead with the virus.

2020 winner:
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Wheisht! Trump getting it tight now.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Well well well. Now it's even. Trump's odds of reelection are in freefall. As the covid death toll mounts and the riots spread, I expect to see him get even more desperate. Expect more scapegoating of China, Mexico, immigrants, and people of colour in the next few months. That includes you, Whitey. I assume you're an immigrant. Don't for one minute think he has your back.

2020 winner:
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10

Joe seems to be the favourite for the first time. Trump's odds are definitely drifting and Biden's are shortening. Still a bit close for my liking though.
2020 winner:
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10

The "violent protests are hurting Biden" theory doesn't seem to be holding up. His odds are still shortening and Trump's are still drifting. Biden is now the favourite.

2020 winner:
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10

2020 winner:
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4

2020 winner:
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on June 11, 2020, 12:03:51 AM
Jesus. Thats not annoyin to scroll through
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 12:08:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2020, 05:50:06 PM
Lock him up. And impeach the nakedly corrupt William Barr. Lock up all the corrupt criminals in this corrupt, criminal regime, actually.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/gleeson-flynn-sullivan-barr-justice-department-311018

Ex-judge tapped to review Flynn case blasts DOJ for 'pretextual' effort to drop charges
The retired judge, John Gleeson, said the Justice Department had improperly bowed to the will of President Donald Trump.

By JOSH GERSTEIN and KYLE CHENEY

06/10/2020 12:36 PM EDT

A former judge selected to advise on a path forward in the criminal case against Michael Flynn is accusing the Justice Department of distorting the justice system to protect an ally of President Donald Trump by attempting to shut down the prosecution.

The former federal judge, John Gleeson, is recommending that the judge handling the case instead proceed to sentence the former Trump national security adviser on the false-statement charge he admitted to two-and-a-half years ago.

"The facts surrounding the filing of the Government's motion constitute clear evidence of gross prosecutorial abuse. They reveal an unconvincing effort to disguise as legitimate a decision to dismiss that is based solely on the fact that Flynn is a political ally of President Trump," Gleeson wrote in a filing Wednesday with Washington-based U.S. District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan, who formally tapped Gleeson to weigh in as a friend of the court.
so the left leaning  judge who appointed another left leaning judge to look over the matter doesn't agree with the right leaning Barr wow ,
Something I rarely comment on but I think it is relevant with Blm so much in the news these days 18 black people were murdered in Chicago on May 31st and over weekend 24 were killed and 85 injured by gunfire pretty staggering numbers .

Hannah Arendt would have had a field day with you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:21:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2020, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 09:01:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2020, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2020, 05:50:06 PM
Lock him up. And impeach the nakedly corrupt William Barr. Lock up all the corrupt criminals in this corrupt, criminal regime, actually.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/gleeson-flynn-sullivan-barr-justice-department-311018

Ex-judge tapped to review Flynn case blasts DOJ for 'pretextual' effort to drop charges
The retired judge, John Gleeson, said the Justice Department had improperly bowed to the will of President Donald Trump.

By JOSH GERSTEIN and KYLE CHENEY

06/10/2020 12:36 PM EDT

A former judge selected to advise on a path forward in the criminal case against Michael Flynn is accusing the Justice Department of distorting the justice system to protect an ally of President Donald Trump by attempting to shut down the prosecution.

The former federal judge, John Gleeson, is recommending that the judge handling the case instead proceed to sentence the former Trump national security adviser on the false-statement charge he admitted to two-and-a-half years ago.

"The facts surrounding the filing of the Government's motion constitute clear evidence of gross prosecutorial abuse. They reveal an unconvincing effort to disguise as legitimate a decision to dismiss that is based solely on the fact that Flynn is a political ally of President Trump," Gleeson wrote in a filing Wednesday with Washington-based U.S. District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan, who formally tapped Gleeson to weigh in as a friend of the court.
so the left leaning  judge who appointed another left leaning judge to look over the matter doesn't agree with the right leaning Barr wow ,
Something I rarely comment on but I think it is relevant with Blm so much in the news these days 18 black people were murdered in Chicago on May 31st and over weekend 24 were killed and 85 injured by gunfire pretty staggering numbers .

And?
not hearing anything from blm on this do blm not natter for any of these murders and shootings. and is the figure not staggering to you ?

Of course its a shocking figure.

I've no idea what BLM does on the ground in Chicago, or if they do anything.

But I'm pretty sure there are all kinds of people in the black community there working their arses off to try to fix the social and gang problems in that city.

Have you looked into that at all?

Or is this just another "black on black crime", "Chicago" attempt to change the subject BLM are trying to address?
The phrase "black on black crime" is very intriguing.

It's almost like it's been designed by white people for the explicit purpose of portraying blackness as being inherently criminal and degenerate.

We don't ever hear about "white crime" in the US (or anywhere), only "black crime".

I wonder why that is.*

Having white people focus on minority ethnicity and/ or religion as an essential component or explanation of crime is something that many, perhaps most ethnic minority communities experience worldwide. British Muslims experience it. Irish Catholics experienced it. Travellers experience it in Ireland.

But white people never experience their skin colour being trotted out as an explantion for crime. Whiteness is never referred to as an essential component or explanation of crime.

*I don't actually wonder why that is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:30:29 AM
This is f**king insane. It's a carte blanche for US police to act like the mafia.

https://pulitzercenter.org/reporting/no-drugs-no-crime-and-just-pennies-school-how-police-use-civil-asset-forfeiture

No Drugs, No Crime and Just Pennies for School: How Police Use Civil Asset Forfeiture
February 18, 2019 | St. Louis Public Radio
BY WILLIAM H. FREIVOGEL

In the past two decades, the federal government took in $36.5 billion in assets police seized from people on America's roads and in its poorer neighborhoods, many of whom never were charged with a crime or shown to have drugs.

Most of the money seized by this civil asset-forfeiture process returns to the law-enforcement agencies that seized it, providing funds for a variety of law-enforcement needs and desires, including exercise equipment, squad cars, jails, military equipment and even a margarita maker.

Many of the seizures occur along corridors that carry drugs east to big cities and cash back west. The Interstate-44 corridor through southern Missouri, Interstate 70 through St. Charles County and the network of interstates that connect in Illinois across from the Gateway Arch are prime locations for asset forfeiture and drug traffic.

Civil asset forfeiture is a controversial law-enforcement tactic that is based on a legal fiction dating back to the days of the pirates. The fiction is that property can be a "criminal." Police can seize property they think is connected to a crime, even if they don't charge the owner of the property with a crime — just as navies seized pirate ships in colonial days.

The practice skirts the Fourth Amendment's guarantee that Americans are free from unreasonable searches and seizures, and it provides a potentially corrupting incentive for police to circumvent the law to fund their departments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 04:26:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:30:29 AM
This is f**king insane. It's a carte blanche for US police to act like the mafia.

https://pulitzercenter.org/reporting/no-drugs-no-crime-and-just-pennies-school-how-police-use-civil-asset-forfeiture

No Drugs, No Crime and Just Pennies for School: How Police Use Civil Asset Forfeiture
February 18, 2019 | St. Louis Public Radio
BY WILLIAM H. FREIVOGEL

In the past two decades, the federal government took in $36.5 billion in assets police seized from people on America's roads and in its poorer neighborhoods, many of whom never were charged with a crime or shown to have drugs.

Most of the money seized by this civil asset-forfeiture process returns to the law-enforcement agencies that seized it, providing funds for a variety of law-enforcement needs and desires, including exercise equipment, squad cars, jails, military equipment and even a margarita maker.

Many of the seizures occur along corridors that carry drugs east to big cities and cash back west. The Interstate-44 corridor through southern Missouri, Interstate 70 through St. Charles County and the network of interstates that connect in Illinois across from the Gateway Arch are prime locations for asset forfeiture and drug traffic.

Civil asset forfeiture is a controversial law-enforcement tactic that is based on a legal fiction dating back to the days of the pirates. The fiction is that property can be a "criminal." Police can seize property they think is connected to a crime, even if they don't charge the owner of the property with a crime — just as navies seized pirate ships in colonial days.

The practice skirts the Fourth Amendment's guarantee that Americans are free from unreasonable searches and seizures, and it provides a potentially corrupting incentive for police to circumvent the law to fund their departments.

It's basically legalized robbery. John Oliver did a great piece on it a while back. Utterly infuriating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 04:27:52 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 11, 2020, 12:03:51 AM
Jesus. Thats not annoyin to scroll through

I'll see what I can do about formatting the next one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 11, 2020, 10:37:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:30:29 AM
The practice skirts the Fourth Amendment's guarantee that Americans are free from unreasonable searches and seizures, and it provides a potentially corrupting incentive for police to circumvent the law to fund their departments.

Skirts the fourth amendment?

Drives a bulldozer through it you mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 11, 2020, 10:37:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:30:29 AM
The practice skirts the Fourth Amendment's guarantee that Americans are free from unreasonable searches and seizures, and it provides a potentially corrupting incentive for police to circumvent the law to fund their departments.

Skirts the fourth amendment?

Drives a bulldozer through it you mean?
Indeed. Even articles which draw attention to grotesque corruption and lawlessness in the US employ "deference" to it.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 12, 2020, 01:29:26 AM
Trump is in Dallas.

Just sayin'.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2020, 01:39:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 12, 2020, 01:29:26 AM
Trump is in Dallas.

Just sayin'.

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 12, 2020, 11:52:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2020, 01:39:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 12, 2020, 01:29:26 AM
Trump is in Dallas.

Just sayin'.

;D

Golf outing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 13, 2020, 03:46:26 AM
Turns out the warlord of chaz has a history of homophobic tweets , you couldn't make this stuff up ha ha bunch of clowns .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 13, 2020, 04:03:01 AM
Dave Chapelle on police killings. Absofuckinglutely devastating. You need to watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1624&v=3tR6mKcBbT4&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1624&v=3tR6mKcBbT4&feature=emb_logo)

It's not in the least bit funny,  in case you were expecting that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 13, 2020, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 13, 2020, 03:46:26 AM
Turns out the warlord of chaz has a history of homophobic tweets , you couldn't make this stuff up ha ha bunch of clowns .

Assuming it's true.

Apparently Fox News has been manipulating photos a wee bit and playing a little fast and loose with the facts.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/?amp=1 (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/?amp=1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 13, 2020, 11:40:44 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 13, 2020, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 13, 2020, 03:46:26 AM
Turns out the warlord of chaz has a history of homophobic tweets , you couldn't make this stuff up ha ha bunch of clowns .

Assuming it's true.

Apparently Fox News has been manipulating photos a wee bit and playing a little fast and loose with the facts.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/?amp=1 (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/?amp=1)
tweets are not altered that's for sure
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 13, 2020, 03:11:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:30:29 AM
This is f**king insane. It's a carte blanche for US police to act like the mafia.

https://pulitzercenter.org/reporting/no-drugs-no-crime-and-just-pennies-school-how-police-use-civil-asset-forfeiture
You're akin to a 'born again', just discovered police corruption exists and ranting about this and that 'new' discovery every 5 minutes.
Civil forfeiture has been happening for decades, has been widely contraversial and well documented. Countless stories of the police in some hillbilly state, stop a citizen on the road, find a roach and end up confiscating all his property.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 13, 2020, 03:48:27 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 13, 2020, 03:11:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:30:29 AM
This is f**king insane. It's a carte blanche for US police to act like the mafia.

https://pulitzercenter.org/reporting/no-drugs-no-crime-and-just-pennies-school-how-police-use-civil-asset-forfeiture
You're akin to a 'born again', just discovered police corruption exists and ranting about this and that 'new' discovery every 5 minutes.
Civil forfeiture has been happening for decades, has been widely contraversial and well documented. Countless stories of the police in some hillbilly state, stop a citizen on the road, find a roach and end up confiscating all his property.
What a bizarre comment.

You agree that it's a massive issue, yet you have a problem with me raising it?

Why didn't you just say "I hate you" instead of trying to obfuscate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 05:52:15 PM
With all the cancel culture it's amazing how the the Democrats are not canceled for their party's history
Voted against emancipation of the slaves , voted against allowing blacks to be citizens and voted against allowing freed slaves to vote  all 100% against.
Even Nancy's father oversaw the dedication of stonewall Jackson and Robert e lee statues in Baltimore when he was mayor  and now she calls for removing statues but won't comment on her father . They birthed the kkk and had a former klansman as it's senate leader a few decades ago . Interned people of Japanese and German ethnicity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:31:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 05:52:15 PM
With all the cancel culture it's amazing how the the Democrats are not canceled for their party's history
Voted against emancipation of the slaves , voted against allowing blacks to be citizens and voted against allowing freed slaves to vote  all 100% against.
Even Nancy's father oversaw the dedication of stonewall Jackson and Robert e lee statues in Baltimore when he was mayor  and now she calls for removing statues but won't comment on her father . They birthed the kkk and had a former klansman as it's senate leader a few decades ago . Interned people of Japanese and German ethnicity.

Nixon, southern strategy, LBJ lamenting the loss of the south to the Republicans, confederate flags at political rallies, opposition to affirmative action, welfare queens in Harlem, Willie Horton, Bob Jones University, RNC chairmen acknowledging the failings of the GOP on race.... need I go on?

And I haven't even mentioned Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?

No.

They've a shameful history.

Which they repudiated more than 50 years ago.

Its a shame for everyone that the GOP eagerly swept up what the Dems abandoned.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?

No.

They've a shameful history.

Which they repudiated more than 50 years ago.

Its a shame for everyone that the GOP eagerly swept up what the Dems abandoned.
that doesn't hold up to the standards of today they need to go .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?

No.

They've a shameful history.

Which they repudiated more than 50 years ago.

Its a shame for everyone that the GOP eagerly swept up what the Dems abandoned.
that doesn't hold up to the standards of today they need to go .

Good luck with that, given that 90+% of blacks and a large majority of Hispanics vote Democratic, while thr GOP president and its base don't even see illegal immigrants as worthy of human dignity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?

No.

They've a shameful history.

Which they repudiated more than 50 years ago.

Its a shame for everyone that the GOP eagerly swept up what the Dems abandoned.
that doesn't hold up to the standards of today they need to go .

Good luck with that, given that 90+% of blacks and a large majority of Hispanics vote Democratic, while thr GOP president and its base don't even see illegal immigrants as worthy of human dignity.
Why do they though ,if most black people live in cities and the cities are run by dems and have been for generations and their lives are shit and they are being killed by cops who are also voting for Democrats through their unions , would you keep voting that way .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 14, 2020, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?

No.

They've a shameful history.

Which they repudiated more than 50 years ago.

Its a shame for everyone that the GOP eagerly swept up what the Dems abandoned.
that doesn't hold up to the standards of today they need to go .

Good luck with that, given that 90+% of blacks and a large majority of Hispanics vote Democratic, while thr GOP president and its base don't even see illegal immigrants as worthy of human dignity.
Why do they though ,if most black people live in cities and the cities are run by dems and have been for generations and their lives are shit and they are being killed by cops who are also voting for Democrats through their unions , would you keep voting that way .

Actually, much to my surprise most cops vote for Republicans even in the big cities

The Democrats have formed these huge bureaucracies in every city. Everyone who's connected can get a job.....many of them are do nothing jobs with great benefits and good pensions.   Well connected African Americans who can turn out the vote get their share of these plum jobs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 08:12:38 PM
That would not be the case in California
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2020, 08:20:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2020, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?

No.

They've a shameful history.

Which they repudiated more than 50 years ago.

Its a shame for everyone that the GOP eagerly swept up what the Dems abandoned.
that doesn't hold up to the standards of today they need to go .

Good luck with that, given that 90+% of blacks and a large majority of Hispanics vote Democratic, while thr GOP president and its base don't even see illegal immigrants as worthy of human dignity.
Why do they though ,if most black people live in cities and the cities are run by dems and have been for generations and their lives are shit and they are being killed by cops who are also voting for Democrats through their unions , would you keep voting that way .

Actually, much to my surprise most cops vote for Republicans even in the big cities

The Democrats have formed these huge bureaucracies in every city. Everyone who's connected can get a job.....many of them are do nothing jobs with great benefits and good pensions.   Well connected African Americans who can turn out the vote get their share of these plum jobs

I guess I must not know the right people, with all these patronage jobs apparently up for grabs. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2020, 08:22:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?

No.

They've a shameful history.

Which they repudiated more than 50 years ago.

Its a shame for everyone that the GOP eagerly swept up what the Dems abandoned.
that doesn't hold up to the standards of today they need to go .

Good luck with that, given that 90+% of blacks and a large majority of Hispanics vote Democratic, while thr GOP president and its base don't even see illegal immigrants as worthy of human dignity.
Why do they though ,if most black people live in cities and the cities are run by dems and have been for generations and their lives are shit and they are being killed by cops who are also voting for Democrats through their unions , would you keep voting that way .

If you believe that is true, how deep must bigoted attitudes towards minorities be embedded in the right then if they can't even peel off a modest minority of those groups?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 14, 2020, 08:34:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 08:20:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2020, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?

No.

They've a shameful history.

Which they repudiated more than 50 years ago.

Its a shame for everyone that the GOP eagerly swept up what the Dems abandoned.
that doesn't hold up to the standards of today they need to go .

Good luck with that, given that 90+% of blacks and a large majority of Hispanics vote Democratic, while thr GOP president and its base don't even see illegal immigrants as worthy of human dignity.
Why do they though ,if most black people live in cities and the cities are run by dems and have been for generations and their lives are shit and they are being killed by cops who are also voting for Democrats through their unions , would you keep voting that way .

Actually, much to my surprise most cops vote for Republicans even in the big cities

The Democrats have formed these huge bureaucracies in every city. Everyone who's connected can get a job.....many of them are do nothing jobs with great benefits and good pensions.   Well connected African Americans who can turn out the vote get their share of these plum jobs

I guess I must not know the right people, with all these patronage jobs apparently up for grabs. ::)

$70 K with benefits for doing fvck all with a pension.....I know about 20 people who have such jobs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 08:40:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 08:22:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 14, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 14, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
How are they not canceled though ? just look at what they were on the wrong side of history for .
Are you justifying them ?

No.

They've a shameful history.

Which they repudiated more than 50 years ago.

Its a shame for everyone that the GOP eagerly swept up what the Dems abandoned.
that doesn't hold up to the standards of today they need to go .

Good luck with that, given that 90+% of blacks and a large majority of Hispanics vote Democratic, while thr GOP president and its base don't even see illegal immigrants as worthy of human dignity.
Why do they though ,if most black people live in cities and the cities are run by dems and have been for generations and their lives are shit and they are being killed by cops who are also voting for Democrats through their unions , would you keep voting that way .

If you believe that is true, how deep must bigoted attitudes towards minorities be embedded in the right then if they can't even peel off a modest minority of those groups?
or the other way around , an r by a candidate side is the end of the candidate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 15, 2020, 01:09:43 AM
Surprising how long someone can live here and not know cops unions are a solid Republican voting block.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on June 15, 2020, 08:39:38 AM
Is there any chance of genuine reform of the Policing system? From my limited knowledge the US seems an overly bureaucratic type of policing system? local county police, metro, state troopers and i have probably missed a layer? I take it it's structure is part of the problem?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2020, 12:55:39 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 15, 2020, 08:39:38 AM
Is there any chance of genuine reform of the Policing system? From my limited knowledge the US seems an overly bureaucratic type of policing system? local county police, metro, state troopers and i have probably missed a layer? I take it it's structure is part of the problem?


The local police force set-up is ridiculous. Each little town has its own, or if its a rural area, an elected sheriff overseeing the county. Northern New Jersey is effectively one, large continuous suburb of NYC, with towns and suburbs extending continuously for miles and miles in all directions and containing millions of people. The only thing to tell you that you might be passing from one town into another would be a sign. There's no breaks or visible boundaries, unless there's a river. Yet, each place is its own little fiefdom, with its own police force and police infrastructure and management structure, replicated over and over again. They might all send their trainees to one academy for initial or in-service training, but after that, each one is independent and supported by local taxes and politics.

If you take the Holland Tunnel from New Jersey into NYC, you'll be passing through the jurisdictions of the NJ State Police as you drive on the highway, through the Jersey City Police on the approach to the tunnel (but turn off for a couple of blocks and you can cross into the territory of the Hoboken police), and then into the jurisdiction of the Port Authority Police as you enter and drive through the tunnel, only to emerge into NYPD territory on the NYC side.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 15, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
J70-the other thing about policing in small town USA that people in Ireland don't get is that most of the cops grew up in town so they know everyone

The "kid" pulling you over is one of your sons best friends and spent as much time in your house growing up as he did at his own house....this  leads to a very unequal application of the law

I know of a golf course where all the cops caddied when they were teenagers and their sons and grandsons caddy there now. The pros brother is the former chief of police.  Think anyone ever gets nabbed leaving there after enjoying  a few frosty adult beverages?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 15, 2020, 04:23:14 PM
Finally some good news out of the US, there isn't much of it these days.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1272531229095723008

BREAKING: US Supreme Court rules that existing federal law forbids job discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, a major victory for advocates of gay rights.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2020, 04:33:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 15, 2020, 04:23:14 PM
Finally some good news out of the US, there isn't much of it these days.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1272531229095723008

BREAKING: US Supreme Court rules that existing federal law forbids job discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, a major victory for advocates of gay rights.

Protects transgender people also.

6-3 win. I was fairly confident Roberts would sign on, but Gorsuch writing the opinion was promising, although he does appear to be far more libertarian-leaning than the likes of Kavanaugh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2020, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 15, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
J70-the other thing about policing in small town USA that people in Ireland don't get is that most of the cops grew up in town so they know everyone

The "kid" pulling you over is one of your sons best friends and spent as much time in your house growing up as he did at his own house....this  leads to a very unequal application of the law

I know of a golf course where all the cops caddied when they were teenagers and their sons and grandsons caddy there now. The pros brother is the former chief of police.  Think anyone ever gets nabbed leaving there after enjoying  a few frosty adult beverages?

And that's something the Gardai do well, posting guards to other areas of the country or county from where they grew up. Much less chance of being compromised or influenced by familiarity or relationships.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2020, 01:14:42 PM
Fox News, after falsely hyping the Seattle CHAZ thing and using altered photos, sensed there might be trouble behind the scenes and an uprising against the (to quote Gmac and Fox) "warlord" leader, apparently called Raz.

Except they based it all on a Reddit thread quoting directly from The Holy Grail!  :o ;D ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaalGuVXkAEIICy?format=jpg&name=large)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html?jwsource=cl (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html?jwsource=cl)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on June 16, 2020, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2020, 01:14:42 PM
Fox News, after falsely hyping the Seattle CHAZ thing and using altered photos, sensed there might be trouble behind the scenes and an uprising against the (to quote Gmac and Fox) "warlord" leader, apparently called Raz.

Except they based it all on a Reddit thread quoting directly from The Holy Grail!  :o ;D ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaalGuVXkAEIICy?format=jpg&name=large)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html?jwsource=cl (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html?jwsource=cl)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html)

Wait until they hear about the Downtown Anarchists Violence Exchange. When CHAZ n DAVE get together it could be a right old anarchistic knees up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 16, 2020, 10:23:13 PM
B...b...but CNN!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2020, 08:35:38 PM
Trump supported China building concentration camps for Uighurs.

At this stage anybody who doesn't consider Trump a fascist is obviously a bit simple, or a total gaaslighting sc**bag with zero morals.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EavIcj7WAAE2ZIy?format=png&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 17, 2020, 08:44:49 PM
Some stories starting to come out based on John Bolton's book (publication of which the Justice Dept is trying to block).

He apparently reckons that the Dems were derelict in restricting the quid pro quo investigations to the Ukraine scandal.

Well gee, thanks Mr Bolton! You had the opportunity to testify, but declined!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2020, 09:26:11 PM
I'm torn about whether or not I should get John "let's invade Iraq" Bolton's book. Maybe I can pick up a second-hand printed copy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2020, 10:48:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2020, 09:26:11 PM
I'm torn about whether or not I should get John "let's invade Iraq" Bolton's book. Maybe I can pick up a second-hand printed copy.
Hopefully somebody does a Cathal McCarron on it and puts the PDF of it up on the internet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 18, 2020, 01:31:58 AM
From the Washington Post:

The Plum Line
Opinion

Bolton's new book blows apart one of Trump's biggest reelection arguments

Even after impeachment, even after his disastrous mishandling of coronavirus, even after over 19,000 false and misleading claims and thousands of appalling tweets, President Trump still retains the capacity to shock us with the depth of his corruption.

That's the immediate takeaway from the revelations that are contained in "The Room Where It Happened," the new memoir by former national security adviser John Bolton.

But, in addition to revealing new dimensions of corruption that are remarkable — even for Trump — the book also deals a huge blow to one of Trump's leading arguments for reelection: the idea that opponent Joe Biden is soft on China, while Trump is bristling with toughness toward that country.

The Post, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal have obtained Bolton's book. It reveals that Trump directly asked President Xi Jinping to help him win reelection, telling Xi in 2019 that if China increased agricultural imports from the United States, it would aid his electoral prospects.

AD

Bolton's book, which is excerpted in the Journal, recounts what happened this way:

In their meeting in Osaka on June 29, Xi told Trump that the U.S.-China relationship was the most important in the world. He said that some (unnamed) American political figures were making erroneous judgments by calling for a new cold war with China.

Whether Xi meant to finger the Democrats or some of us sitting on the U.S. side of the table, I don't know, but Trump immediately assumed that Xi meant the Democrats. Trump said approvingly that there was great hostility to China among the Democrats. Trump then, stunningly, turned the conversation to the coming U.S. presidential election, alluding to China's economic capability and pleading with Xi to ensure he'd win. He stressed the importance of farmers and increased Chinese purchases of soybeans and wheat in the electoral outcome. I would print Trump's exact words, but the government's prepublication review process has decided otherwise.

If true, Trump basically pleaded with Xi for help in winning reelection by buying up U.S. agricultural products. More recently, Trump spent weeks credulously propping up China's assurances that it had coronavirus under control, to sustain his monstrous lie that we didn't have to worry about it here.

That downplaying on China's behalf was also meant to preserve Trump's trade deal with China. That's not necessarily an objectionable goal, but now we see Trump explicitly tried to shape these dealings around his naked political needs as much as around what's in the national interest, if not more so.

If reality mattered, this would make it extremely hard for Trump to now argue that he's tough on China and that Biden is soft. Trump has been making this claim in absurdly lurid ads that laughably rip Biden's words out of context.

AD

There have also been other Trump TV spots that tell a convoluted story about Hunter Biden and China that is based on falsehoods and surely comes across as white noise to everyone except the hardest-core Trump supporters. Trump's campaign manager floated the hashtag #BeijingBiden.

On top of all that, vulnerable GOP senators are highlighting Trump's supposed toughness on China over coronavirus (which, again, is the opposite of what happened) in order to deflect blame for Trump's own catastrophic botching of it.

Now we've learned that he pleaded with China for their help in defeating "Beijing Biden."

None of this is to suggest that Biden should try to be "tougher" on China than Trump. As we've suggested, Biden should argue for renewed U.S. international leadership and a revitalized multinationalism on global health issues as a better alternative to Trump's blustery nationalism.

AD

Rather, it's to say that, at this point, whenever Trump claims to be "tough" on China, and cites his trade dealings as evidence of it, then the proper response is to laugh in his face.


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
China is on a massive disinformation campaign because they are desperate to have Sleepy Joe Biden win the presidential race so they can continue to rip-off the United States, as they have done for decades, until I came along!

254K
6:37 PM - May 20, 2020
Twitter Ads info and privacy
108K people are talking about this

The other revelations in the book further undermine Trump's case for reelection:


Some of these stories may be comical, but the deeply serious charge is that Trump was eager to make U.S. policy, both foreign and domestic, a servant of his own interests — many tied directly to his reelection — to a far greater extent than we knew.

If Ukraine couldn't be strong-armed into helping his campaign, maybe China could be persuaded. If China helps him win reelection, then that's all that matters, no matter what their intentions are or what they hope to accomplish through him.

One irony here is that, as Bloomberg News recently reported, Chinese leaders have concluded that however much they might dislike the trade war, having Trump remain would undermine the Western alliance and weaken the United States, thus boosting China's global ambitions.

AD

All these new details reinforce the broader pattern in which Trump sees government as nothing more than a tool to advance his own interests, and they add specificity in China's case. That should make it a whole lot harder for Trump to get away with claiming to the tough-on-China candidate. Which is one of his central reelection arguments.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 18, 2020, 08:57:54 AM
Trump now calling Bolton a 'wacko' and a 'dope' in the same tweet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 18, 2020, 09:26:25 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on June 16, 2020, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2020, 01:14:42 PM
Fox News, after falsely hyping the Seattle CHAZ thing and using altered photos, sensed there might be trouble behind the scenes and an uprising against the (to quote Gmac and Fox) "warlord" leader, apparently called Raz.

Except they based it all on a Reddit thread quoting directly from The Holy Grail!  :o ;D ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaalGuVXkAEIICy?format=jpg&name=large)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html?jwsource=cl (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html?jwsource=cl)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html)

Wait until they hear about the Downtown Anarchists Violence Exchange. When CHAZ n DAVE get together it could be a right old anarchistic knees up.

Those Derry wans get everywhere;

(https://uziiw38pmyg1ai60732c4011-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/dropzone/2020/06/1920px-Entering_Free_Capitol_Hill-768x576.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2020, 10:23:22 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 18, 2020, 08:57:54 AM
Trump now calling Bolton a 'wacko' and a 'dope' in the same tweet.

Amazing how many of these he has hired!😄
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on June 18, 2020, 04:41:17 PM
They seem to be throwing the book atthe wendy's shooter, felon murder. Life or Death penalty but prbably suspended 25 year sentence.  If only he'd been Donald Trump but did trump say he could shoot someone rather than  kill?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 07:34:22 PM
So. Another day, another example of The Donald wanting to be der furher.

They are literally using the Nazi symbol for prisoners held in the concentration camps for political reasons in their tweets.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/18/tech/facebook-trump-ads-triangle-takedown/index.html


(https://forums.anandtech.com/attachments/104410820_10223914976844951_6141896307324010539_n-jpg.23484/)


(https://forums.anandtech.com/attachments/wikpedia_system_of_identification_german_camps-png.23485/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2020, 08:26:55 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 07:34:22 PM
So. Another day, another example of The Donald wanting to be der furher.

They are literally using the Nazi symbol for prisoners held in the concentration camps for political reasons in their tweets.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/18/tech/facebook-trump-ads-triangle-takedown/index.html


(https://forums.anandtech.com/attachments/104410820_10223914976844951_6141896307324010539_n-jpg.23484/)


(https://forums.anandtech.com/attachments/wikpedia_system_of_identification_german_camps-png.23485/)

Are they also making upside down "Okay" symbol with their thumb and index finger
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 18, 2020, 08:54:00 PM
Interesting you can't even condemn that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2020, 09:26:43 PM
Adding to his shit week, I see he lost on DACA in the Supreme Court too.

Its not easy being a dehumanizer of immigrants and minorities. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2020, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 18, 2020, 08:54:00 PM
Interesting you can't even condemn that

Because I'm sure it's a bunch of complete and utter nonsense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 18, 2020, 09:44:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2020, 09:26:43 PM
Adding to his shit week, I see he lost on DACA in the Supreme Court too.

Its not easy being a dehumanizer of immigrants and minorities. ;D

He just got tired of all that winning





Still can't condemn it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:11:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 18, 2020, 09:26:43 PM
Adding to his shit week, I see he lost on DACA in the Supreme Court too.

Its not easy being a dehumanizer of immigrants and minorities. ;D

Good-they should be given legal status

(Except those with serious criminal records, but I don't think they're part of it anyway)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 18, 2020, 10:14:08 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-talks-juneteenth-john-bolton-economy-in-wsj-interview-11592493771

"I did something good: I made Juneteenth very famous," Mr. Trump said, referring to news coverage of the rally date. "It's actually an important event, an important time. But nobody had ever heard of it."

Mr. Trump said he polled many people around him, none of whom had heard of Juneteenth. Mr. Trump paused the interview to ask an aide if she had heard of Juneteenth, and she pointed out that the White House had issued a statement last year commemorating the day. Mr. Trump's White House has put out statements on Juneteenth during each of his first three years.

"Oh really? We put out a statement? The Trump White House put out a statement?" Mr. Trump said. "OK, OK. Good."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 10:30:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 09:27:07 PM
Because I'm sure it's a bunch of complete and utter nonsense

Which part is nonsense?

Trump campaign ran it?

Facebook took it down?

It was not a symbol used in the concentration camps?

Or Trump's campaign team's baseless claim that it was a symbol used by "Antifa"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: dec on June 18, 2020, 10:14:08 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-talks-juneteenth-john-bolton-economy-in-wsj-interview-11592493771

"I did something good: I made Juneteenth very famous," Mr. Trump said, referring to news coverage of the rally date. "It's actually an important event, an important time. But nobody had ever heard of it."

Mr. Trump said he polled many people around him, none of whom had heard of Juneteenth. Mr. Trump paused the interview to ask an aide if she had heard of Juneteenth, and she pointed out that the White House had issued a statement last year commemorating the day. Mr. Trump's White House has put out statements on Juneteenth during each of his first three years.

"Oh really? We put out a statement? The Trump White House put out a statement?" Mr. Trump said. "OK, OK. Good."

I have lived here for 30 years and I never heard of Juneteenth until about a week ago.

LOL-got a email today, company is giving everyone the day off tomorrow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:38:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 10:30:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 09:27:07 PM
Because I'm sure it's a bunch of complete and utter nonsense

Which part is nonsense?

Trump campaign ran it?

Facebook took it down?

It was not a symbol used in the concentration camps?

Or Trump's campaign team's baseless claim that it was a symbol used by "Antifa"?

I have an honors degree in history and so far this year, I think I have read 3 books about the Nazis and the Holocaust, and yesterday is the first time I've ever fvckin heard or read about them using a red triangle to identify anyone
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: naka on June 18, 2020, 10:44:34 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kennzeichen_f%C3%BCr_Schutzh%C3%A4ftlinge_in_den_Konzentrationslagern.jpg

Tbf whitey would have a special interest in ww2 myself and triangles did identify the different camps.
No issue with your politics as it's always each time their own
The red triangle was for political prisoners, anarchists, greets of Jews, trade unionists , socialists etc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 18, 2020, 11:02:14 PM
Quote from: naka on June 18, 2020, 10:44:34 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kennzeichen_f%C3%BCr_Schutzh%C3%A4ftlinge_in_den_Konzentrationslagern.jpg

Tbf whitey would have a special interest in ww2 myself and triangles did identify the different camps.
No issue with your politics as it's always each time their own
The red triangle was for political prisoners, anarchists, greets of Jews, trade unionists , socialists etc

How widely were the red ones used?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on June 18, 2020, 11:22:56 PM
Mat Gaetz is a really, really strange guy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 18, 2020, 11:30:05 PM
Coulter and her band of merry fascists kicking off on twitter over the DACA ruling.

The Supreme Court is loaded with Conservatives now do the headers not realise that if this Supreme Court rules against Trump it's for the right reasons??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 18, 2020, 11:45:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 11:02:14 PM
Quote from: naka on June 18, 2020, 10:44:34 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kennzeichen_f%C3%BCr_Schutzh%C3%A4ftlinge_in_den_Konzentrationslagern.jpg

Tbf whitey would have a special interest in ww2 myself and triangles did identify the different camps.
No issue with your politics as it's always each time their own
The red triangle was for political prisoners, anarchists, greets of Jews, trade unionists , socialists etc

How widely were the red ones used?
A very casual glance at the JPG  would indicate to most people (4 years or older ) that the vast majority of concentration camp inmates were branded with an inverted  red triangle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 18, 2020, 11:47:32 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 18, 2020, 11:22:56 PM
Mat Gaetz is a really, really strange guy.

What 32 year old single man adopts a 12 year old Cuban boy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 12:20:01 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 18, 2020, 11:47:32 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 18, 2020, 11:22:56 PM
Mat Gaetz is a really, really strange guy.

What 32 year old single man adopts a 12 year old Cuban boy?
Maybe he just wanted to bring him for pizza.

Pizza Gaetz.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 12:26:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:35:38 PM
I have lived here for 30 years and I never heard of Juneteenth until about a week ago.
You should probably get out more, or at least get out of your white supremacist bubble.

Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:38:38 PM

I have an honors degree in history and so far this year, I think I have read 3 books about the Nazis and the Holocaust, and yesterday is the first time I've ever fvckin heard or read about them using a red triangle to identify anyone
You're not that priest in Father Ted that collected Nazi memorabilia by any chance?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 12:26:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:35:38 PM
I have lived here for 30 years and I never heard of Juneteenth until about a week ago.
You should probably get out more, or at least get out of your white supremacist bubble.

Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:38:38 PM

I have an honors degree in history and so far this year, I think I have read 3 books about the Nazis and the Holocaust, and yesterday is the first time I've ever fvckin heard or read about them using a red triangle to identify anyone
You're not that priest in Father Ted that collected Nazi memorabilia by any chance?

Good one


Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 19, 2020, 01:21:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 12:26:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:35:38 PM
I have lived here for 30 years and I never heard of Juneteenth until about a week ago.
You should probably get out more, or at least get out of your white supremacist bubble.

Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:38:38 PM

I have an honors degree in history and so far this year, I think I have read 3 books about the Nazis and the Holocaust, and yesterday is the first time I've ever fvckin heard or read about them using a red triangle to identify anyone
You're not that priest in Father Ted that collected Nazi memorabilia by any chance?

Good one


Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump
A reply straight from the trump war room, totally absent of credibility.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2020, 01:23:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: dec on June 18, 2020, 10:14:08 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-talks-juneteenth-john-bolton-economy-in-wsj-interview-11592493771

"I did something good: I made Juneteenth very famous," Mr. Trump said, referring to news coverage of the rally date. "It's actually an important event, an important time. But nobody had ever heard of it."

Mr. Trump said he polled many people around him, none of whom had heard of Juneteenth. Mr. Trump paused the interview to ask an aide if she had heard of Juneteenth, and she pointed out that the White House had issued a statement last year commemorating the day. Mr. Trump's White House has put out statements on Juneteenth during each of his first three years.

"Oh really? We put out a statement? The Trump White House put out a statement?" Mr. Trump said. "OK, OK. Good."

I have lived here for 30 years and I never heard of Juneteenth until about a week ago.

LOL-got a email today, company is giving everyone the day off tomorrow

Given that almost all the states have recognized it in some way for quite a few years you can't have been paying much attention to literally never have heard of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 19, 2020, 01:40:23 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2020, 01:21:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 12:26:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:35:38 PM
I have lived here for 30 years and I never heard of Juneteenth until about a week ago.
You should probably get out more, or at least get out of your white supremacist bubble.

Quote from: whitey on June 18, 2020, 10:38:38 PM

I have an honors degree in history and so far this year, I think I have read 3 books about the Nazis and the Holocaust, and yesterday is the first time I've ever fvckin heard or read about them using a red triangle to identify anyone
You're not that priest in Father Ted that collected Nazi memorabilia by any chance?

Good one


Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump
A reply straight from the trump war room, totally absent of credibility.

he's  so bad at this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 19, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump

Which is a total lie.


I thought a history degree was all about critical thought and evaluation of information which would come from conflicting points of view. Seems to go out the window when it comes to you and real life.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 19, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump

Which is a total lie.


I thought a history degree was all about critical thought and evaluation of information which would come from conflicting points of view. Seems to go out the window when it comes to you and real life.

If this is the claptrap you're focusing on, Trump is going to get re elected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2020, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 19, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump

Which is a total lie.


I thought a history degree was all about critical thought and evaluation of information which would come from conflicting points of view. Seems to go out the window when it comes to you and real life.

If this is the claptrap you're focusing on, Trump is going to get re elected

Discussing this on this board means Trump is going to get elected?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2020, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 19, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump

Which is a total lie.


I thought a history degree was all about critical thought and evaluation of information which would come from conflicting points of view. Seems to go out the window when it comes to you and real life.

If this is the claptrap you're focusing on, Trump is going to get re elected

Discussing this on this board means Trump is going to get elected?

The media giving Trump more ammunition for a "they're out to get me" diatribe will help him

So if he reposts the ad, and this time flips the red triangle around.....it's no longer a Nazi symbol, so you'll be fine with that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2020, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 19, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump

Which is a total lie.


I thought a history degree was all about critical thought and evaluation of information which would come from conflicting points of view. Seems to go out the window when it comes to you and real life.

If this is the claptrap you're focusing on, Trump is going to get re elected

Discussing this on this board means Trump is going to get elected?

The media giving Trump more ammunition for a "they're out to get me" diatribe will help him

So if he reposts the ad, and this time flips the red triangle around.....it's no longer a Nazi symbol, so you'll be fine with that

Either they used the NAZI symbol or they didn't.

If they did so by mistake, then they should take the hitherto unprecedented move for Trump and apologize instead of trying to double down, shift blame, prolong the coverage (until the next idiotic Trump move later today) and claim the usual bullshit victimhood.

Personally, I don't give a bollocks what they do. Their overall appalling worldview is fairly clear at this point.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 02:39:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2020, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 19, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump

Which is a total lie.


I thought a history degree was all about critical thought and evaluation of information which would come from conflicting points of view. Seems to go out the window when it comes to you and real life.

If this is the claptrap you're focusing on, Trump is going to get re elected

Discussing this on this board means Trump is going to get elected?

The media giving Trump more ammunition for a "they're out to get me" diatribe will help him

So if he reposts the ad, and this time flips the red triangle around.....it's no longer a Nazi symbol, so you'll be fine with that

Either they used the NAZI symbol or they didn't.

If they did so by mistake, then they should take the hitherto unprecedented move for Trump and apologize instead of trying to double down, shift blame, prolong the coverage (until the next idiotic Trump move later today) and claim the usual bullshit victimhood.

Personally, I don't give a bollocks what they do. Their overall appalling worldview is fairly clear at this point.

So were Antifa also using a Nazi symbol? ......very confusing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2020, 03:11:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 02:39:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2020, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 19, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Now it's coming out that they pulled it off the Antifa website

Why would "AntiFascists" be using a "fascist" emblem

ADL also maintains a list of hate symbols and red triangle isn't one

This is the "connect the dots " bullshit that it only helping Trump

Which is a total lie.


I thought a history degree was all about critical thought and evaluation of information which would come from conflicting points of view. Seems to go out the window when it comes to you and real life.

If this is the claptrap you're focusing on, Trump is going to get re elected

Discussing this on this board means Trump is going to get elected?

The media giving Trump more ammunition for a "they're out to get me" diatribe will help him

So if he reposts the ad, and this time flips the red triangle around.....it's no longer a Nazi symbol, so you'll be fine with that

Either they used the NAZI symbol or they didn't.

If they did so by mistake, then they should take the hitherto unprecedented move for Trump and apologize instead of trying to double down, shift blame, prolong the coverage (until the next idiotic Trump move later today) and claim the usual bullshit victimhood.

Personally, I don't give a bollocks what they do. Their overall appalling worldview is fairly clear at this point.

So were Antifa also using a Nazi symbol? ......very confusing

You claimed they were.

I haven't seen anything yet to support that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
All of whiney's posts should be read in an Eric Cartman voice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
All of whiney's posts should be read in an Eric Cartman voice.


Lol-advantage Trump in this one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 03:58:54 PM
Haha-couldn't make it up

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/latino-man-fired-making-white-supremacist-symbol-cracking-knuckles?fbclid=IwAR173mWjEejyN9xFpgwVT4nTeAgcue_Bl78jGrBmP5VwdEc5ZKaseFWQnPw
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 04:03:29 PM
Here's another one

https://www.dailywire.com/news/oakland-mayor-launches-hate-crime-probe-into-nooses-in-trees-black-man-says-its-exercise-equipment-he-put-there?%3Futm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwtwitter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
All of whiney's posts should be read in an Eric Cartman voice.


Lol-advantage Trump in this one
"Lol"ing at the use of Nazi imagery now.

Very Daily Stormer.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on June 19, 2020, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
All of whiney's posts should be read in an Eric Cartman voice.
Maybe ye should all put him on Ignore.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 04:24:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
All of whiney's posts should be read in an Eric Cartman voice.


Lol-advantage Trump in this one
"Lol"ing at the use of Nazi imagery now.

Very Daily Stormer.

LOLing Antifa using Nazi imagery

Very National Socialist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 19, 2020, 04:47:37 PM
You keep saying Antifa use it with no evidence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 19, 2020, 04:47:37 PM
You keep saying Antifa use it with no evidence.

Believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 19, 2020, 04:47:37 PM
You keep saying Antifa use it with no evidence.
McEnaney has just said Trump is Antifa.

So maybe that's what Cartman is talking about.

The official line from the Trump regime now is that Trump is a terrorist - according to his own classification.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 19, 2020, 04:47:37 PM
You keep saying Antifa use it with no evidence.

Believe what you want

How about you post the evidence if you are so adamant?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2020, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 19, 2020, 04:47:37 PM
You keep saying Antifa use it with no evidence.

Believe what you want

How about you post the evidence if you are so adamant?

Unless it comes from The NY Times or CNN you won't believe it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 19, 2020, 09:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 02:39:09 PM
So were Antifa also using a Nazi symbol? ......very confusing

Antifa never used it you clown.

It was pointed out to you above that was a total lie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2020, 02:52:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 19, 2020, 04:47:37 PM
You keep saying Antifa use it with no evidence.

Believe what you want

How about you post the evidence if you are so adamant?

Unless it comes from The NY Times or CNN you won't believe it

FFS.

Either you have some kind of evidence to back up your assertion or you don't. Put up or shut up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on June 20, 2020, 06:23:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 20, 2020, 02:52:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2020, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 19, 2020, 04:47:37 PM
You keep saying Antifa use it with no evidence.

Believe what you want

How about you post the evidence if you are so adamant?

Unless it comes from The NY Times or CNN you won't believe it

FFS.

Either you have some kind of evidence to back up your assertion or you don't. Put up or shut up.

Why do you pay any heed to Whitey's malevolent trolling. He's not worth a response.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on June 21, 2020, 01:40:28 AM
This is incredible comedy. Give that man an Emmy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 21, 2020, 02:33:05 AM
He has always wanted one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on June 21, 2020, 11:14:03 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 21, 2020, 01:40:28 AM
This is incredible comedy. Give that man an Emmy.
Tr**p or Whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 21, 2020, 11:52:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 21, 2020, 01:40:28 AM
This is incredible comedy. Give that man an Emmy.
He needs an enema, but he'd still be full of shit afterwards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on June 21, 2020, 01:03:10 PM
Trump is certainly a prime a***hole, whatever about his fellow travellers on this forum. He wants less Covid19 testing as apparently if you test people then you get more cases!!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-trump-testing/trump-urges-slowdown-in-covid-19-testing-calling-it-a-double-edge-sword-idUSKBN23S0B4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2020, 01:43:41 PM
Trump is a LOSER

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 21, 2020, 02:06:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2020, 01:43:41 PM
Trump is a LOSER

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election

National polls are meaningless

It's the swing states that matter, and it's also advantage Biden using that metric

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-new-polling-averages-show-biden-leads-trump-by-9-points-nationally/amp/

Now let's see what the Democrats can do to fvck this up.

All they need to do (imho) is keep it between the ditches. They may even win the Senate if they play it right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 21, 2020, 02:42:17 PM
That Tulsa convention is just like watching Sunderland fc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2020, 06:52:02 PM
I wouldn't be surprised he walks it! Trump that is..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 22, 2020, 01:07:17 AM
A supporter sits in the stands at a campaign rally for Trump in Tulsa.

(https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2020_25/3391529/200620-trump-rally-empty-cs-816a_30424d1d809812fee6ff29db59017506.fit-560w.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 22, 2020, 08:47:53 AM
   https://www.ft.com/content/d20f5f4e-4074-4116-bd14-a680da02f9e6

   Mr Trump defended his handling of the coronavirus crisis on Saturday, saying he "did a phenomenal job". But he was criticised for claiming that he had asked officials to reduce the number of Covid-19 tests because "when you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more cases". "I said to my people, slow the testing down," the president added.


https://www.ft.com/content/d999d8d6-0c86-4b5d-b2d4-4d6af66b235d

Mr Bolton said he would not vote for Mr Trump in November, adding: "I don't think he's a conservative Republican." When asked why he stayed in the administration so long, Mr Bolton said: "I overrated the chances to make this into a coherent, rational, systematic, decision-making process, to advance American interests . . . That turned out not to be right."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 22, 2020, 01:46:49 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 22, 2020, 01:07:17 AM
A supporter sits in the stands at a campaign rally for Trump in Tulsa.

(https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2020_25/3391529/200620-trump-rally-empty-cs-816a_30424d1d809812fee6ff29db59017506.fit-560w.jpg)

That demonstrates that Trump fans are good at socially distancing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 07:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 19, 2020, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 19, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
All of whiney's posts should be read in an Eric Cartman voice.
Maybe ye should all put him on Ignore.

I did. My life has improved greatly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 07:11:37 PM
A door count placed the attendance at 6,116.

Of those:

Meaning:

1,578 were total real attendees!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 22, 2020, 07:31:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 07:11:37 PM
A door count placed the attendance at 6,116.

Of those:

  • 2,837 were paid gig actors
  • 986 were Trump Campaign 2020
  • 532 were WH/Trump propaganda machine employees
  • 183 were plainclothes security

Meaning:

1,578 were total real attendees!

Is that really a thing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 07:49:43 PM
No idea, but it wouldn't surprise me. He has been known to pay people from minorities to show up and cheer for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2020, 08:18:08 PM
Just in case anyone thinks defunding the police is a good idea for the big cities, just look at what happened in Chicago this  weekend-

104 shot
14 dead

(Including a 3 year old and a 13 year old)

But their lives don't seem to matter to the rent a mob we saw out a few weeks ago (and I'm talking about the rioters and looters, not ordinary protestors)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 22, 2020, 08:59:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2020, 08:18:08 PM
Just in case anyone thinks defunding the police is a good idea for the big cities, just look at what happened in Chicago this  weekend-

104 shot
14 dead

(Including a 3 year old and a 13 year old)

But their lives don't seem to matter to the rent a mob we saw out a few weeks ago (and I'm talking about the rioters and looters, not ordinary protestors)
new York shootings gone up 350% from same time last year but warren wilhelm jr is more interested in tearing down teddy Roosevelt statues .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM
Hopefully this is a less annoying format.

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)

Trump's odds now are the same that Biden's were in early March before the states started locking down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2020, 09:04:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2020, 08:59:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2020, 08:18:08 PM
Just in case anyone thinks defunding the police is a good idea for the big cities, just look at what happened in Chicago this  weekend-

104 shot
14 dead

(Including a 3 year old and a 13 year old)

But their lives don't seem to matter to the rent a mob we saw out a few weeks ago (and I'm talking about the rioters and looters, not ordinary protestors)
new York shootings gone up 350% from same time last year but warren wilhelm jr is more interested in tearing down teddy Roosevelt statues .

A lot of the people on here seem to think that American cops spend their time putting pensioners out of pubs 15 minutes after closing time and breaking up rows outside chippers the night of the inter cert results disco

Spike Lee called it Chiraq for a reason
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 22, 2020, 09:08:48 PM
Eamonnca1 neater format but the dates seem to be reversed, Sanders and Bloomberg in June and only Trump and Biden back in February.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:14:28 PM
Ah yes, I need to flip them.

Thanks.

Update: Fixed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 22, 2020, 09:29:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2020, 10:48:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2020, 09:26:11 PM
I'm torn about whether or not I should get John "let's invade Iraq" Bolton's book. Maybe I can pick up a second-hand printed copy.
Hopefully somebody does a Cathal McCarron on it and puts the PDF of it up on the internet.


There are links to PDFs and epub format files on twitter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 01:02:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2020, 08:59:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2020, 08:18:08 PM
Just in case anyone thinks defunding the police is a good idea for the big cities, just look at what happened in Chicago this  weekend-

104 shot
14 dead

(Including a 3 year old and a 13 year old)

But their lives don't seem to matter to the rent a mob we saw out a few weeks ago (and I'm talking about the rioters and looters, not ordinary protestors)
new York shootings gone up 350% from same time last year but warren wilhelm jr is more interested in tearing down teddy Roosevelt statues .

I didn't know who the f**k you were talking about and had to look up the name to see it's DeBlasio's childhood given name.

Do you find that using it strengthens your "point" in some way?

I've been following the Teddy Roosevelt statue discussions over the past few years as I'm a long time member of the American Museum of Natural History and an admirer of Roosevelt. It was AMNH who proposed its removal based on the discussions. Roosevelt's family, including his great-grandson, TR IV, who sits on the board, agree. They put it to the city and they then agreed; the statue is city property. The statue itself is the issue, not Roosevelt, who will still be central at the museum. It's him on a horse, flanked by a walking Native American and East African tribesman. DeBlasio has NOT been at the forefront of this.

And perhaps if you googled him by his real name, you'd see he has taken quite a lot of flack in recent weeks for defending the NYPD.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:04:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 01:02:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2020, 08:59:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2020, 08:18:08 PM
Just in case anyone thinks defunding the police is a good idea for the big cities, just look at what happened in Chicago this  weekend-

104 shot
14 dead

(Including a 3 year old and a 13 year old)

But their lives don't seem to matter to the rent a mob we saw out a few weeks ago (and I'm talking about the rioters and looters, not ordinary protestors)
new York shootings gone up 350% from same time last year but warren wilhelm jr is more interested in tearing down teddy Roosevelt statues .

I didn't know who the f**k you were talking about and had to look up the name to see it's DeBlasio's childhood given name.

Do you find that using it strengthens your "point" in some way?

I've been following the Teddy Roosevelt statue discussions over the past few years as I'm a long time member of the American Museum of Natural History and an admirer of Roosevelt. It was AMNH who proposed its removal based on the discussions. Roosevelt's family, including his great-grandson, TR IV, who sits on the board, agree. They put it to the city and they then agreed; the statue is city property. The statue itself is the issue, not Roosevelt, who will still be central at the museum. It's him on a horse, flanked by a walking Native American and East African tribesman. DeBlasio has NOT been at the forefront of this.

And perhaps if you googled him by his real name, you'd see he has taken quite a lot of flack in recent weeks for defending the NYPD.

LOL-how can you live in NYC  and not know who Warren Wilhelm is?

Anyway I see your homie Shaun King is calling for statues of Jesus to be taken down and stained glass windows removed

Your people are becoming completely unhinged.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 02:21:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:04:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 01:02:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2020, 08:59:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2020, 08:18:08 PM
Just in case anyone thinks defunding the police is a good idea for the big cities, just look at what happened in Chicago this  weekend-

104 shot
14 dead

(Including a 3 year old and a 13 year old)

But their lives don't seem to matter to the rent a mob we saw out a few weeks ago (and I'm talking about the rioters and looters, not ordinary protestors)
new York shootings gone up 350% from same time last year but warren wilhelm jr is more interested in tearing down teddy Roosevelt statues .

I didn't know who the f**k you were talking about and had to look up the name to see it's DeBlasio's childhood given name.

Do you find that using it strengthens your "point" in some way?

I've been following the Teddy Roosevelt statue discussions over the past few years as I'm a long time member of the American Museum of Natural History and an admirer of Roosevelt. It was AMNH who proposed its removal based on the discussions. Roosevelt's family, including his great-grandson, TR IV, who sits on the board, agree. They put it to the city and they then agreed; the statue is city property. The statue itself is the issue, not Roosevelt, who will still be central at the museum. It's him on a horse, flanked by a walking Native American and East African tribesman. DeBlasio has NOT been at the forefront of this.

And perhaps if you googled him by his real name, you'd see he has taken quite a lot of flack in recent weeks for defending the NYPD.

LOL-how can you live in NYC  and not know who Warren Wilhelm is?

Anyway I see your homie Shaun King is calling for statues of Jesus to be taken down and stained glass windows removed

Your people are becoming completely unhinged.

Why would I know DeBlasio's original name?

I never heard of Shaun King. How is he supposed to be "my homey"?

But from a google search I see he is complaining about Jesus being depicted as  white European.

It's a fair complaint, albeit it relatively trivial and one I don't care about as I'm an atheist.

I'd be far more worried about your own side when it's come to lunacy though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:32:49 AM
I don't have a side, I'm a registered Independent

You guys are supposedly going to walk away with this thing in November, don't screw it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 02:38:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:32:49 AM
I don't have a side, I'm a registered Independent

You guys are supposedly going to walk away with this thing in November, don't screw it up

You're a conservative, a movement now owned lock, stock and barrel by Donald Trump and his cult of personality.

There may be plenty of kooks and whack jobs on the liberal side too, but at least the national party as a whole is fairly sane and mainstream.

I've never said this will be a landslide or easy election in any way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 23, 2020, 02:58:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 02:38:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:32:49 AM
I don't have a side, I'm a registered Independent

You guys are supposedly going to walk away with this thing in November, don't screw it up

You're a conservative, a movement now owned lock, stock and barrel by Donald Trump and his cult of personality.

There may be plenty of kooks and whack jobs on the liberal side too, but at least the national party as a whole is fairly sane and mainstream.

I've never said this will be a landslide or easy election in any way.
who is the leader of the liberal movement right now ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 03:09:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 23, 2020, 02:58:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 02:38:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:32:49 AM
I don't have a side, I'm a registered Independent

You guys are supposedly going to walk away with this thing in November, don't screw it up

You're a conservative, a movement now owned lock, stock and barrel by Donald Trump and his cult of personality.

There may be plenty of kooks and whack jobs on the liberal side too, but at least the national party as a whole is fairly sane and mainstream.

I've never said this will be a landslide or easy election in any way.
who is the leader of the liberal movement right now ?

I would say there isn't a single leader.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 03:10:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 02:38:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:32:49 AM
I don't have a side, I'm a registered Independent

You guys are supposedly going to walk away with this thing in November, don't screw it up

You're a conservative, a movement now owned lock, stock and barrel by Donald Trump and his cult of personality.

There may be plenty of kooks and whack jobs on the liberal side too, but at least the national party as a whole is fairly sane and mainstream.

I've never said this will be a landslide or easy election in any way.

Trump isn't a conservative.....far from it

And don't kid yourself. The "Squad" is neither sane nor mainstream

John Bolton said today that the Democrats were almost as bad and somewhat equivalent to' President Trump.....a view I would share
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 10:57:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 03:10:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 02:38:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:32:49 AM
I don't have a side, I'm a registered Independent

You guys are supposedly going to walk away with this thing in November, don't screw it up

You're a conservative, a movement now owned lock, stock and barrel by Donald Trump and his cult of personality.

There may be plenty of kooks and whack jobs on the liberal side too, but at least the national party as a whole is fairly sane and mainstream.

I've never said this will be a landslide or easy election in any way.

Trump isn't a conservative.....far from it

And don't kid yourself. The "Squad" is neither sane nor mainstream

John Bolton said today that the Democrats were almost as bad and somewhat equivalent to' President Trump.....a view I would share

Yet Trump has the conservative movement by the short and curlies, with virtually every one of them afraid to step out of line. If he isn't a conservative, then you guys must be incredibly naive and stupid. But let's face it, he is the culmination of what the conservative movement has been cultivating for decades: complete intransigence and disregard for the humanity of illegal immigrants; virulent opposition to environmental regulations; antipathy towards minorities; fake white and Christian victimhood. You personally may have little sympathy for Trump's appalling rhetoric and policies ( although did you not admit on here to voting for Bernie in the MASS primary to do your bit to sabotage the Dems for November??), but YOU are the exception in the conservative movement. He says out loud what they've been insinuating and selling for years. Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the rest have hitched themselves to Trump completely and passionately. The conservative base have been unwavering in their devotion no matter what revelations have come out, stuff they used to froth at the mouth about if any single one of them was against a Democrat.

Trump isn't just a conservative, he's THE conservative!

I don't really care what Bolton says about the Democrats. If you think they're as bad as Trump, knock yourself out and make the argument.

As for "the Squad", they may not be mainstream, but neither are they the driving force of the Democratic Party or liberalism. The GOP and the conservative movement sold their souls to Trump. The Dems have not done so with AOC or even Bernie. Biden is nothing if not the safest, most non-threatening, moderate choice the Dems could have made for this election.

The Dems, at this point in time, are basically a coalition of various groups who stand opposed to one or more of the radical, reactionary positions of the GOP. The likes of Bernie were never going to unite the party, even if it is basically running an "anyone but Trump"/"back to normality" campaign this year. Biden is the nominee by default because he's moderate enough, policy-wise, to not offend a significant enough chunk of a party whose overriding motivation is to come together to vote that travesty out of the White House. Hopefully that motivation is sufficient and hopefully the "moderate"  approach will contrast favourably enough with Trump to peel off a decisive number of independents.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 12:13:32 PM
J70-I voted for Bernie because I wanted to block Elizabeth Warren who was doing very well at the  time.....I'm actually fine with Joe Biden being the nominee and might even vote for him. 

Are you not highly disappointed at the leadership of the Democratic Party who have been very slow to come out and condemn the rioters and looters and support the police?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 12:21:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 12:13:32 PM
J70-I voted for Bernie because I wanted to block Elizabeth Warren who was doing very well at the  time.....I'm actually fine with Joe Biden being the nominee and might even vote for him. 

Are you not highly disappointed at the leadership of the Democratic Party who have been very slow to come out and condemn the rioters and looters and support the police?

Not really, no.

They've condemned violence. Biden has refused to support defunding the police. And I'll be more concerned about whatever you deem to be "supporting" the police when the police unions start to become less reactionary and start to concede that their members do f**k up on the job now and then. Their pronouncements in the respective cities in the wake of the Floyd murder, the old dude in Buffalo, and various releases over the years here in NYC after a number of different incidents were nothing short of disgraceful.

I don't support getting rid of cops, I respect most of them, and I think they've a tough job, but they have to be accountable to the public and stop the aggressive and tone deaf closing of ranks around the most blatant, ridiculous misconduct among their members.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 02:38:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:32:49 AM
I don't have a side, I'm a registered Independent

You guys are supposedly going to walk away with this thing in November, don't screw it up

You're a conservative, a movement now owned lock, stock and barrel by Donald Trump and his cult of personality.

You forgot fascist and racist.

If whitey not only won't condemn, but tries to make excuses for people acting like fascists and racists, then he isn't much better than the perpetrators.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 02:38:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:32:49 AM
I don't have a side, I'm a registered Independent

You guys are supposedly going to walk away with this thing in November, don't screw it up

You're a conservative, a movement now owned lock, stock and barrel by Donald Trump and his cult of personality.

You forgot fascist and racist.

If whitey not only won't condemn, but tries to make excuses for people acting like fascists and racists, then he isn't much better than the perpetrators.

That's the oldest trick in the book-disagree with me and you're a racist

I'd love for you to point out ONE thing I have ever said that could be construed as racist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:30:43 PM
Everyone to the right of Genghis Khan is a fascist and racist, apparently. A lot of poison lately on these pages.

Once upon a time, some people used post here using either their real names or easily identifiable handles. That's gone now as the poison has taken over. Sad to see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
That's the oldest trick in the book-disagree with me and you're a racist

I'd love for you to point out ONE thing I have ever said that could be construed as racist

No - you consistently make excuses for fascist and racists actions.

That is far beyond disagreeing with any of us.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
That's the oldest trick in the book-disagree with me and you're a racist

I'd love for you to point out ONE thing I have ever said that could be construed as racist

No - you consistently make excuses for fascist and racists actions.

That is far beyond disagreeing with any of us.

Pot and Kettle. I've seen you on here not that long ago defending the Chinese regime that has a million Muslims imprisoned in internment camps, some of whom are being systematically murdered for their vital organs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
Pot and Kettle. I've seen you on here not that long ago defending the Chinese regime that has a million Muslims imprisoned in internment camps, some of whom are being systematically murdered for their vital organs.

Defending their actions with regards COVID?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:45:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
Pot and Kettle. I've seen you on here not that long ago defending the Chinese regime that has a million Muslims imprisoned in internment camps, some of whom are being systematically murdered for their vital organs.

Defending their actions with regards COVID?

Does it matter? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:58:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
That's the oldest trick in the book-disagree with me and you're a racist

I'd love for you to point out ONE thing I have ever said that could be construed as racist

No - you consistently make excuses for fascist and racists actions.

That is far beyond disagreeing with any of us.

Great-give me an example of me doing that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:30:43 PM
Everyone to the right of Genghis Khan is a fascist and racist, apparently.
That attempt at a straw man doesn't even make sense.

What so offends you about fascists and racists rightly being called such?

Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:41:32 PM

Pot and Kettle. I've seen you on here not that long ago defending the Chinese regime that has a million Muslims imprisoned in internment camps, some of whom are being systematically murdered for their vital organs.
Wow. Not content with your previous straw man, you steam in with an even more ludicrous one.

You just forgot to shout "communist".

We know does actually support the support the Chinese concentration camps holding Uighurs.

Donald Trump.

And not a squeak out of you or the racist about it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:45:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
Pot and Kettle. I've seen you on here not that long ago defending the Chinese regime that has a million Muslims imprisoned in internment camps, some of whom are being systematically murdered for their vital organs.

Defending their actions with regards COVID?

Does it matter?

Very much.

You'd have to be a special kind of simpleton if you cannot separate defending an action from defending a regime as a whole.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:14:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 10:57:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 03:10:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 02:38:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:32:49 AM
I don't have a side, I'm a registered Independent

You guys are supposedly going to walk away with this thing in November, don't screw it up

You're a conservative, a movement now owned lock, stock and barrel by Donald Trump and his cult of personality.

There may be plenty of kooks and whack jobs on the liberal side too, but at least the national party as a whole is fairly sane and mainstream.

I've never said this will be a landslide or easy election in any way.

Trump isn't a conservative.....far from it

And don't kid yourself. The "Squad" is neither sane nor mainstream

John Bolton said today that the Democrats were almost as bad and somewhat equivalent to' President Trump.....a view I would share

Yet Trump has the conservative movement by the short and curlies, with virtually every one of them afraid to step out of line. If he isn't a conservative, then you guys must be incredibly naive and stupid. But let's face it, he is the culmination of what the conservative movement has been cultivating for decades: complete intransigence and disregard for the humanity of illegal immigrants; virulent opposition to environmental regulations; antipathy towards minorities; fake white and Christian victimhood. You personally may have little sympathy for Trump's appalling rhetoric and policies ( although did you not admit on here to voting for Bernie in the MASS primary to do your bit to sabotage the Dems for November??), but YOU are the exception in the conservative movement. He says out loud what they've been insinuating and selling for years. Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the rest have hitched themselves to Trump completely and passionately. The conservative base have been unwavering in their devotion no matter what revelations have come out, stuff they used to froth at the mouth about if any single one of them was against a Democrat.

Trump isn't just a conservative, he's THE conservative!

I don't really care what Bolton says about the Democrats. If you think they're as bad as Trump, knock yourself out and make the argument.

As for "the Squad", they may not be mainstream, but neither are they the driving force of the Democratic Party or liberalism. The GOP and the conservative movement sold their souls to Trump. The Dems have not done so with AOC or even Bernie. Biden is nothing if not the safest, most non-threatening, moderate choice the Dems could have made for this election.

The Dems, at this point in time, are basically a coalition of various groups who stand opposed to one or more of the radical, reactionary positions of the GOP. The likes of Bernie were never going to unite the party, even if it is basically running an "anyone but Trump"/"back to normality" campaign this year. Biden is the nominee by default because he's moderate enough, policy-wise, to not offend a significant enough chunk of a party whose overriding motivation is to come together to vote that travesty out of the White House. Hopefully that motivation is sufficient and hopefully the "moderate"  approach will contrast favourably enough with Trump to peel off a decisive number of independents.

Trump isn't a conservative and the Republican party isn't conservative. They're radical far right nihilists and kleptocrats.

You can't be radical and be a conservative. They're mutually exclusive.

Joe Biden would be an example of an actual conservative. He's about as radical as a short back and sides.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:16:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:58:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
That's the oldest trick in the book-disagree with me and you're a racist

I'd love for you to point out ONE thing I have ever said that could be construed as racist

No - you consistently make excuses for fascist and racists actions.

That is far beyond disagreeing with any of us.

Great-give me an example of me doing that

You've claimed 3 times, two of which were after being corrected, that Trumps' Nazi political prisoner symbol was used by Antifa.

It was not. It was Trump's campaign team insidiously appealing to the ultra right wing subsection of their support in labelling an anti-fascist campaign with it.

You defended this action against an anti fascist organisation. Hard to see how that's not making an excuse for wannabe fascists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:19:25 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:45:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
Pot and Kettle. I've seen you on here not that long ago defending the Chinese regime that has a million Muslims imprisoned in internment camps, some of whom are being systematically murdered for their vital organs.

Defending their actions with regards COVID?

Does it matter?

Very much.

You'd have to be a special kind of simpleton if you cannot separate defending an action from defending a regime as a whole.
Apparently if you supported a lockdown to prevent a public health catastrophe you now support actual concentration camps.

Say supporters of the man who supports the exact same concentration camps, and runs concentration camps of his own.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:45:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
Pot and Kettle. I've seen you on here not that long ago defending the Chinese regime that has a million Muslims imprisoned in internment camps, some of whom are being systematically murdered for their vital organs.

Defending their actions with regards COVID?

Does it matter?

Very much.

You'd have to be a special kind of simpleton if you cannot separate defending an action from defending a regime as a whole.

You then are that special kind

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
That's the oldest trick in the book-disagree with me and you're a racist

I'd love for you to point out ONE thing I have ever said that could be construed as racist

No - you consistently make excuses for fascist and racists actions.

That is far beyond disagreeing with any of us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:21:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:16:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:58:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
That's the oldest trick in the book-disagree with me and you're a racist

I'd love for you to point out ONE thing I have ever said that could be construed as racist

No - you consistently make excuses for fascist and racists actions.

That is far beyond disagreeing with any of us.

Great-give me an example of me doing that

You've claimed 3 times, two of which were after being corrected, that Trumps' Nazi political prisoner symbol was used by Antifa.

It was not. It was Trump's campaign team insidiously appealing to the ultra right wing subsection of their support in labelling an anti-fascist campaign with it.

You defended this action against an anti fascist organisation. Hard to see how that's not making an excuse for wannabe fascists.

Which Cartman has firmly placed himself inside.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:23:06 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:45:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
Pot and Kettle. I've seen you on here not that long ago defending the Chinese regime that has a million Muslims imprisoned in internment camps, some of whom are being systematically murdered for their vital organs.

Defending their actions with regards COVID?

Does it matter?

Very much.

You'd have to be a special kind of simpleton if you cannot separate defending an action from defending a regime as a whole.

You then are that special kind

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
That's the oldest trick in the book-disagree with me and you're a racist

I'd love for you to point out ONE thing I have ever said that could be construed as racist

No - you consistently make excuses for fascist and racists actions.

That is far beyond disagreeing with any of us.

This "five points" character doesn't seem very bright.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:23:55 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:16:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:58:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
That's the oldest trick in the book-disagree with me and you're a racist

I'd love for you to point out ONE thing I have ever said that could be construed as racist

No - you consistently make excuses for fascist and racists actions.

That is far beyond disagreeing with any of us.

Great-give me an example of me doing that

You've claimed 3 times, two of which were after being corrected, that Trumps' Nazi political prisoner symbol was used by Antifa.

It was not. It was Trump's campaign team insidiously appealing to the ultra right wing subsection of their support in labelling an anti-fascist campaign with it.

You defended this action against an anti fascist organisation. Hard to see how that's not making an excuse for wannabe fascists.

How many Trump supporters do you think knew that an upside down red triangle was used by the Nazis?  Based on the ones I know I would feel pretty safe saying zero. If that's your evidence of someone being a Nazi, god help us all

It reminds me of the time of the Jussie Smolletts hoax-people were saying on social media, including my cousin, that if you dared even question his account, you were participating in a modern day lynching

"Anti Fascists" are scumbags who are just as bad as the fascists
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:23:55 PM

How many Trump supporters do you think knew that an upside down red triangle was used by the Nazis?  Based on the ones I know I would feel pretty safe saying zero. If that's your evidence of someone being a Nazi, god help us all

Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:23:55 PM
"Anti Fascists" are scumbags who are just as bad as the fascists

The cries for help get louder and louder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
You then are that special kind

I don't even know where to begin trying to understand what you mean.

Me calling out Whitey for making an excuse for the actions of a fascist is equatable for me agreeing with the actions of a government in controlling a pandemic?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:35:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
You then are that special kind

I don't even know where to begin trying to understand what you mean.

Me calling out Whitey for making an excuse for the actions of a fascist is equatable for me agreeing with the actions of a government in controlling a pandemic?

If a government that locks up a million of its own citizens on race grounds isn't fascist, then what is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:36:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:23:55 PM
How many Trump supporters do you think knew that an upside down red triangle was used by the Nazis?  Based on the ones I know I would feel pretty safe saying zero. If that's your evidence of someone being a Nazi, god help us all

It was pointed out in the first post that it was a Nazi symbol.

You defended it as supposedly being a symbol used by Antifa.

You were corrected on this.

You continued to defend it repeating the same argument.


So

1. You were informed that it was a Nazi symbol for political prisoners in concentration camps before you posted on the matter.

2. You defended it with either ignorance or lies.

3. After being corrected, you repeated the defence with what at that stage had to be lies or stupidity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:38:39 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:35:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
You then are that special kind

I don't even know where to begin trying to understand what you mean.

Me calling out Whitey for making an excuse for the actions of a fascist is equatable for me agreeing with the actions of a government in controlling a pandemic?

If a government that locks up a million of its own citizens on race grounds isn't fascist, then what is it?

You don't get the bit where that is irrelevant. I never defended their government as a whole. I never defended them locking up the Muslims.

Unless they locked up said Muslims as a means of stopping the pandemic, there is no link between me supporting their actions against COVID and their actions against their Muslim populace.


Whitey is directly defending an action taken by Trump's campaign team that used Nazi symbology against an anti-fascist organisation. Can you really not see the difference?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:35:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
You then are that special kind

I don't even know where to begin trying to understand what you mean.

Me calling out Whitey for making an excuse for the actions of a fascist is equatable for me agreeing with the actions of a government in controlling a pandemic?

If a government that locks up a million of its own citizens on race grounds isn't fascist, then what is it?

You genuinely think supporting a lockdown to protect public health in a pandemic equals support for Chinese concentration camps, don't you.

Lolz.

Right-wing culture warriors are sooooo stupid.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:50:30 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:36:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 02:23:55 PM
How many Trump supporters do you think knew that an upside down red triangle was used by the Nazis?  Based on the ones I know I would feel pretty safe saying zero. If that's your evidence of someone being a Nazi, god help us all

It was pointed out in the first post that it was a Nazi symbol.

You defended it as supposedly being a symbol used by Antifa.

You were corrected on this.

You continued to defend it repeating the same argument.


So

1. You were informed that it was a Nazi symbol for political prisoners in concentration camps before you posted on the matter.

2. You defended it with either ignorance or lies.

3. After being corrected, you repeated the defence with what at that stage had to be lies or stupidity.

So if Trump served Turnip soup at the White House and it then came out that Turnip soup was served in the concentration camps, would you accuse Trump of pandering to the Nazis and racists among his supporters?

I can't tell you how many time Trump or some Republican has done something or said something  and the Democrats and the media set their hair in fire accusing them of this that and the other, only for it to then come out that Democrats themselves have used the same language or imagery (then you hear fvck all about it)

So I apologize for my skepticism, but when the Presidents daughter, grandchildren and favored son in law are all Jewish, I find it quite a stretch when you guys start playing connect the dots to accuse him of being a Nazi sympathizer. And BTW-Mar a Lago was I believe the first private club on Palm Beach to admit Jewish members
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 23, 2020, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:35:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
You then are that special kind

I don't even know where to begin trying to understand what you mean.

Me calling out Whitey for making an excuse for the actions of a fascist is equatable for me agreeing with the actions of a government in controlling a pandemic?

If a government that locks up a million of its own citizens on race grounds isn't fascist, then what is it?

You genuinely think supporting a lockdown to protect public health in a pandemic equals support for Chinese concentration camps, don't you.

Lolz.

Right-wing culture warriors are sooooo stupid.  ;D
2 posters who may have never even have been in the USA are the loudest and most knowledgeable on a subject they have no first hand experience of says it all really .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:55:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:35:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
You then are that special kind

I don't even know where to begin trying to understand what you mean.

Me calling out Whitey for making an excuse for the actions of a fascist is equatable for me agreeing with the actions of a government in controlling a pandemic?

If a government that locks up a million of its own citizens on race grounds isn't fascist, then what is it?

You genuinely think supporting a lockdown to protect public health in a pandemic equals support for Chinese concentration camps, don't you.

Lolz.

Right-wing culture warriors are sooooo stupid.  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWbmiqIWAAE6Hs0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:06:01 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:55:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:35:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
You then are that special kind

I don't even know where to begin trying to understand what you mean.

Me calling out Whitey for making an excuse for the actions of a fascist is equatable for me agreeing with the actions of a government in controlling a pandemic?

If a government that locks up a million of its own citizens on race grounds isn't fascist, then what is it?

You genuinely think supporting a lockdown to protect public health in a pandemic equals support for Chinese concentration camps, don't you.

Lolz.

Right-wing culture warriors are sooooo stupid.  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWbmiqIWAAE6Hs0.jpg)

You can post up all the memes in the world, mate, it still won't help you. It only exposes the total stupidity of what you are "arguing".

Your "argument" genuinely is exactly as I've laid out.

Your "argument" is that if somebody supports a lockdown to protect public health - as the Chinese have done with Coronavirus - that means you support Chinese concentration camps.

It doesn't.

Your "argument" completely and self-evidently ludicrous, and only somebody so far down the right-wing rabbit hole that they have lost their handle on reality would make it.

Actually supporting Chinese concentration camps, as Donald Trump does, means you support Chinese concentration camps.

Strange we didn't hear a word out of you about that, eh?!





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 03:08:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:06:01 PM

Your "argument" is that if somebody supports a lockdown to protect public health - as the Chinese have done with Coronavirus - that means you support Chinese concentration camps.


No that wasn't my argument.  I didn't say that, nor anything remotely near that.

Read again what I said, perhaps a little more slowly this time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:15:18 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 03:08:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:06:01 PM

Your "argument" is that if somebody supports a lockdown to protect public health - as the Chinese have done with Coronavirus - that means you support Chinese concentration camps.


No that wasn't my argument.  I didn't say that, nor anything remotely near that.

Read again what I said, perhaps a little more slowly this time.

But it was your argument.

Otherwise you have no basis for accusing other posters of supporting Chinese concentration camps.

Well, you obviously have no basis anyway, but hey, I'm trying to make this simple for you.

Now, again, Donald Trump actually does support Chinese concentration camps (as well as his own ones in the US).

Why haven't you mentioned that if you're so concerned with the issue?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 03:19:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:15:18 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 03:08:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:06:01 PM

Your "argument" is that if somebody supports a lockdown to protect public health - as the Chinese have done with Coronavirus - that means you support Chinese concentration camps.


No that wasn't my argument.  I didn't say that, nor anything remotely near that.

Read again what I said, perhaps a little more slowly this time.

But it was your argument.

Otherwise you have no basis for accusing other posters of supporting Chinese concentration camps.


That I didn't do. RadioGAAGAA criticised someone else for in his words "defending the actions of fascists and racists". I pointed out that he did the same not so long ago, in respect of the actions of the Chinese govt.

I never accused anyone of supporting the Chinese concentration camps.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 04:07:50 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 03:19:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:15:18 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 03:08:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:06:01 PM

Your "argument" is that if somebody supports a lockdown to protect public health - as the Chinese have done with Coronavirus - that means you support Chinese concentration camps.


No that wasn't my argument.  I didn't say that, nor anything remotely near that.

Read again what I said, perhaps a little more slowly this time.

But it was your argument.

Otherwise you have no basis for accusing other posters of supporting Chinese concentration camps.


That I didn't do. RadioGAAGAA criticised someone else for in his words "defending the actions of fascists and racists". I pointed out that he did the same not so long ago, in respect of the actions of the Chinese govt.

I never accused anyone of supporting the Chinese concentration camps.

Ah ok.

So I need to qualify that by saying Whitey is defending the fascist and/or racist actions of fascists and racists.


Fukk me. What a tool. Can't believe you wasted our times on that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:10:11 PM
Saying Trump is not a "true" conservative is like saying Ian Paisley was not a "true" protestant. Trump is the inevitable outcome of years of conservatives steadily ratcheting up their hateful racist and xenophobic rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 05:15:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 04:07:50 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 03:19:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:15:18 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 03:08:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:06:01 PM

Your "argument" is that if somebody supports a lockdown to protect public health - as the Chinese have done with Coronavirus - that means you support Chinese concentration camps.


No that wasn't my argument.  I didn't say that, nor anything remotely near that.

Read again what I said, perhaps a little more slowly this time.

But it was your argument.

Otherwise you have no basis for accusing other posters of supporting Chinese concentration camps.


That I didn't do. RadioGAAGAA criticised someone else for in his words "defending the actions of fascists and racists". I pointed out that he did the same not so long ago, in respect of the actions of the Chinese govt.

I never accused anyone of supporting the Chinese concentration camps.

Ah ok.

So I need to qualify that by saying Whitey is defending the fascist and/or racist actions of fascists and racists.


Fukk me. What a tool. Can't believe you wasted our times on that.
No, just don't castigate others for something you were happy to do yourself quite recently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 23, 2020, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:10:11 PM
Saying Trump is not a "true" conservative is like saying Ian Paisley was not a "true" protestant. Trump is the inevitable outcome of years of conservatives steadily ratcheting up their hateful racist and xenophobic rhetoric Hillary Clinton.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:59:49 PM
Swing state polling is looking good for Biden.


StateNumber of pollsBidenTrumpAverage margin
   Texas      3      46.40%      47.90%      R+1.5   
   Georgia      4      45.3      46.3      R+1.0   
   Pennsylvania      3      46.5      46.4      D+0.1   
   North Carolina      8      45.6      45.1      D+0.5   
   Florida      6      47.5      45      D+2.5   
   Arizona      5      46.5      43.2      D+3.3   
   Wisconsin      5      47.8      41.5      D+6.2   
   Michigan      8      49.8      42.2      D+7.6   

Includes polls conducted from May 1 to June 11. Polls that released results among multiple populations were included only once, counting the narrowest sample — registered voters over adults, and likely voters over registered voters.

The fact that Texas is now a swing state is encouraging. As more people leave California and move to the likes of Austin I expect to see Texas getting less red and more purple. This could also be the year when the Texas house goes blue.

Democrats could gain control of the Texas House for the first time since 2001. Here are the seats in play in 2020. (https://www.texastribune.org/2019/12/13/will-texas-house-turn-blue-after-2020-elections/)

Quoth the article:

Quote"As recently as 2017, House Republicans relished in a 95-member majority. But now, Democrats, bolstered by their 12-seat pick-up last year, are effectively only nine away from gaining control of the chamber — and having a larger say in the 2021 redistricting process."
That could be a tipping point. If the dems get enough power to stop Rethuglican gerrymandering, that opens up a lot of possibilities, including having Texas join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and a more swift end of the electoral college. The slow and steady restoration of Democracy in America is looking more and more like an achievable goal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:06:47 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:10:11 PM
Saying Trump is not a "true" conservative is like saying Ian Paisley was not a "true" protestant. Trump is the inevitable outcome of years of conservatives steadily ratcheting up their hateful racist and xenophobic rhetoric Hillary Clinton.

Fixed that for you.

Its all the Dems fault! They made us vote for the corrupt, immoral, callous, narcissistic, shallow, bigoted, scaremongering demagogue who said out loud all the things we've been taught to think and fear. If only we had had, say, 16 or 17 other options in the GOP primaries... ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:09:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:59:49 PM
Swing state polling is looking good for Biden.


StateNumber of pollsBidenTrumpAverage margin
   Texas      3      46.40%      47.90%      R+1.5   
   Georgia      4      45.3      46.3      R+1.0   
   Pennsylvania      3      46.5      46.4      D+0.1   
   North Carolina      8      45.6      45.1      D+0.5   
   Florida      6      47.5      45      D+2.5   
   Arizona      5      46.5      43.2      D+3.3   
   Wisconsin      5      47.8      41.5      D+6.2   
   Michigan      8      49.8      42.2      D+7.6   

Includes polls conducted from May 1 to June 11. Polls that released results among multiple populations were included only once, counting the narrowest sample — registered voters over adults, and likely voters over registered voters.

The fact that Texas is now a swing state is encouraging. As more people leave California and move to the likes of Austin I expect to see Texas getting less red and more purple. This could also be the year when the Texas house goes blue.

Democrats could gain control of the Texas House for the first time since 2001. Here are the seats in play in 2020. (https://www.texastribune.org/2019/12/13/will-texas-house-turn-blue-after-2020-elections/)

Quoth the article:

Quote"As recently as 2017, House Republicans relished in a 95-member majority. But now, Democrats, bolstered by their 12-seat pick-up last year, are effectively only nine away from gaining control of the chamber — and having a larger say in the 2021 redistricting process."
That could be a tipping point. If the dems get enough power to stop Rethuglican gerrymandering, that opens up a lot of possibilities, including having Texas join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and a more swift end of the electoral college. The slow and steady restoration of Democracy in America is looking more and more like an achievable goal.

Surprised on Texas.

But they're all within the margin of error except, presumably, for the last two.

I would have thought Biden would be ahead in PA though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 07:19:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:06:47 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:10:11 PM
Saying Trump is not a "true" conservative is like saying Ian Paisley was not a "true" protestant. Trump is the inevitable outcome of years of conservatives steadily ratcheting up their hateful racist and xenophobic rhetoric Hillary Clinton.

Fixed that for you.

Its all the Dems fault! They made us vote for the corrupt, immoral, callous, narcissistic, shallow, bigoted, scaremongering demagogue who said out loud all the things we've been taught to think and fear. If only we had had, say, 16 or 17 other options in the GOP primaries... ;D

No-they held a coronation instead of a primary and ended up with an extremely toxic candidate that had unfavorables very similar to Trump

The vote for Trump was in many cases a vote against Hillary.....several counties in swing states that had voted for Obama TWICE saw big swings back towards Trump.

So were they stupid and gullible when they voted for Obama or did they just become gullible and stupid when they voted for Trump?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 07:22:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:09:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:59:49 PM
Swing state polling is looking good for Biden.


StateNumber of pollsBidenTrumpAverage margin
   Texas      3      46.40%      47.90%      R+1.5   
   Georgia      4      45.3      46.3      R+1.0   
   Pennsylvania      3      46.5      46.4      D+0.1   
   North Carolina      8      45.6      45.1      D+0.5   
   Florida      6      47.5      45      D+2.5   
   Arizona      5      46.5      43.2      D+3.3   
   Wisconsin      5      47.8      41.5      D+6.2   
   Michigan      8      49.8      42.2      D+7.6   

Includes polls conducted from May 1 to June 11. Polls that released results among multiple populations were included only once, counting the narrowest sample — registered voters over adults, and likely voters over registered voters.

The fact that Texas is now a swing state is encouraging. As more people leave California and move to the likes of Austin I expect to see Texas getting less red and more purple. This could also be the year when the Texas house goes blue.

Democrats could gain control of the Texas House for the first time since 2001. Here are the seats in play in 2020. (https://www.texastribune.org/2019/12/13/will-texas-house-turn-blue-after-2020-elections/)

Quoth the article:

Quote"As recently as 2017, House Republicans relished in a 95-member majority. But now, Democrats, bolstered by their 12-seat pick-up last year, are effectively only nine away from gaining control of the chamber — and having a larger say in the 2021 redistricting process."
That could be a tipping point. If the dems get enough power to stop Rethuglican gerrymandering, that opens up a lot of possibilities, including having Texas join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and a more swift end of the electoral college. The slow and steady restoration of Democracy in America is looking more and more like an achievable goal.

Surprised on Texas.

But they're all within the margin of error except, presumably, for the last two.

I would have thought Biden would be ahead in PA though.

I was surprised at PA too. It must have a lot of red rural counties, I'd say Biden would be stronger in the cities.

I'm not at all surprised at Texas, I've been expecting it to get more blue for a while. A lot of people have been leaving California because of affordability problems, and Austin has been a popular destination for them. It's like an island of civilization in a red state.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:34:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 07:19:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:06:47 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:10:11 PM
Saying Trump is not a "true" conservative is like saying Ian Paisley was not a "true" protestant. Trump is the inevitable outcome of years of conservatives steadily ratcheting up their hateful racist and xenophobic rhetoric Hillary Clinton.

Fixed that for you.

Its all the Dems fault! They made us vote for the corrupt, immoral, callous, narcissistic, shallow, bigoted, scaremongering demagogue who said out loud all the things we've been taught to think and fear. If only we had had, say, 16 or 17 other options in the GOP primaries... ;D

No-they held a coronation instead of a primary and ended up with an extremely toxic candidate that had unfavorable a very similar to Trump

The vote for Trump was in many cases a vote against Hillary.....several counties in swing states that had voted for Obama TWICE saw big swings back towards Trump

You can point all you want to Hillary and her weakness as a candidate, but none of that absolves the Republicans of their choice of Trump or the fact that he now rules the GOP and the conservative movement in the US with an iron fist. He was not a reluctant choice on their part. They swallowed his extremist shit hook, line and sinker because he wasn't afraid to tell them exactly what they wanted to hear. That the long GOP project to paint Hillary, a pretty mainstream US politician, as a scary monster peeled off enough voters in a few decisive places does not change the fact that Trump is the outcome of conservative politics for the past couple of decades, not the cause. That vote "against Hillary" could have been a vote FOR someone like Jeb Bush or John Kasich. Unfortunately for us all, it wasn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:38:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 07:22:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:09:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:59:49 PM
Swing state polling is looking good for Biden.


StateNumber of pollsBidenTrumpAverage margin
   Texas      3      46.40%      47.90%      R+1.5   
   Georgia      4      45.3      46.3      R+1.0   
   Pennsylvania      3      46.5      46.4      D+0.1   
   North Carolina      8      45.6      45.1      D+0.5   
   Florida      6      47.5      45      D+2.5   
   Arizona      5      46.5      43.2      D+3.3   
   Wisconsin      5      47.8      41.5      D+6.2   
   Michigan      8      49.8      42.2      D+7.6   

Includes polls conducted from May 1 to June 11. Polls that released results among multiple populations were included only once, counting the narrowest sample — registered voters over adults, and likely voters over registered voters.

The fact that Texas is now a swing state is encouraging. As more people leave California and move to the likes of Austin I expect to see Texas getting less red and more purple. This could also be the year when the Texas house goes blue.

Democrats could gain control of the Texas House for the first time since 2001. Here are the seats in play in 2020. (https://www.texastribune.org/2019/12/13/will-texas-house-turn-blue-after-2020-elections/)

Quoth the article:

Quote"As recently as 2017, House Republicans relished in a 95-member majority. But now, Democrats, bolstered by their 12-seat pick-up last year, are effectively only nine away from gaining control of the chamber — and having a larger say in the 2021 redistricting process."
That could be a tipping point. If the dems get enough power to stop Rethuglican gerrymandering, that opens up a lot of possibilities, including having Texas join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and a more swift end of the electoral college. The slow and steady restoration of Democracy in America is looking more and more like an achievable goal.

Surprised on Texas.

But they're all within the margin of error except, presumably, for the last two.

I would have thought Biden would be ahead in PA though.

I was surprised at PA too. It must have a lot of red rural counties, I'd say Biden would be stronger in the cities.

I'm not at all surprised at Texas, I've been expecting it to get more blue for a while. A lot of people have been leaving California because of affordability problems, and Austin has been a popular destination for them. It's like an island of civilization in a red state.

Ignoring the ludicrous district shapes, Dems appear to be, predictably, much stronger in the cities and along the border in the current House of Representatives.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Texas%2C_2018_results_by_district.svg/1280px-United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Texas%2C_2018_results_by_district.svg.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 07:42:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:34:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 07:19:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:06:47 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:10:11 PM
Saying Trump is not a "true" conservative is like saying Ian Paisley was not a "true" protestant. Trump is the inevitable outcome of years of conservatives steadily ratcheting up their hateful racist and xenophobic rhetoric Hillary Clinton.

Fixed that for you.

Its all the Dems fault! They made us vote for the corrupt, immoral, callous, narcissistic, shallow, bigoted, scaremongering demagogue who said out loud all the things we've been taught to think and fear. If only we had had, say, 16 or 17 other options in the GOP primaries... ;D

No-they held a coronation instead of a primary and ended up with an extremely toxic candidate that had unfavorable a very similar to Trump

The vote for Trump was in many cases a vote against Hillary.....several counties in swing states that had voted for Obama TWICE saw big swings back towards Trump

You can point all you want to Hillary and her weakness as a candidate, but none of that absolves the Republicans of their choice of Trump or the fact that he now rules the GOP and the conservative movement in the US with an iron fist. He was not a reluctant choice on their part. They swallowed his extremist shit hook, line and sinker because he wasn't afraid to tell them exactly what they wanted to hear. That the long GOP project to paint Hillary, a pretty mainstream US politician, as a scary monster peeled off enough voters in a few decisive places does not change the fact that Trump is the outcome of conservative politics for the past couple of decades, not the cause. That vote "against Hillary" could have been a vote FOR someone like Jeb Bush or John Kasich. Unfortunately for us all, it wasn't.
m

We all know Trump was a clown candidate, yet the media at the outset treated him as a legitimate contender

WHY?

Well I know I'm paranoid, but at that point in time he was one of the few Republicans that Hillary was beating in the head to head matchup

There are emails from the DNC showing that they were working their allies in the media to promote the pied piper candidates and it backfired on them

https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:51:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 07:42:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:34:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 07:19:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2020, 07:06:47 PM
Quote from: five points on June 23, 2020, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 05:10:11 PM
Saying Trump is not a "true" conservative is like saying Ian Paisley was not a "true" protestant. Trump is the inevitable outcome of years of conservatives steadily ratcheting up their hateful racist and xenophobic rhetoric Hillary Clinton.

Fixed that for you.

Its all the Dems fault! They made us vote for the corrupt, immoral, callous, narcissistic, shallow, bigoted, scaremongering demagogue who said out loud all the things we've been taught to think and fear. If only we had had, say, 16 or 17 other options in the GOP primaries... ;D

No-they held a coronation instead of a primary and ended up with an extremely toxic candidate that had unfavorable a very similar to Trump

The vote for Trump was in many cases a vote against Hillary.....several counties in swing states that had voted for Obama TWICE saw big swings back towards Trump

You can point all you want to Hillary and her weakness as a candidate, but none of that absolves the Republicans of their choice of Trump or the fact that he now rules the GOP and the conservative movement in the US with an iron fist. He was not a reluctant choice on their part. They swallowed his extremist shit hook, line and sinker because he wasn't afraid to tell them exactly what they wanted to hear. That the long GOP project to paint Hillary, a pretty mainstream US politician, as a scary monster peeled off enough voters in a few decisive places does not change the fact that Trump is the outcome of conservative politics for the past couple of decades, not the cause. That vote "against Hillary" could have been a vote FOR someone like Jeb Bush or John Kasich. Unfortunately for us all, it wasn't.
m

We all know Trump was a clown candidate, yet the media at the outset treated him as a legitimate contender.

Well I know I'm paranoid, but at that point in time he was one of the few Republicans that Hillary was beating in the head to head matchup

There are emails from the DNC showing that they were working their allies in the media to promote the pied piper candidates and it backfired on them

https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/

Again, that may all be true. Hillary's campaign was pretty awful overall, although it's pretty standard for the opposition to try to boost a more extremist candidate in the hopes of making the general a perceived easier choice.

But Trump took advantage of a GOP base ripe for the picking.

In contrast, the Dems rejected Bernie twice in favour of a mainstream candidate.

You think Trump wasn't thinking along these lines with the whole Ukraine debacle? He wanted Biden out and Bernie in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 08:10:54 PM
Sure-the whole process is very fvckin depressing

Good people like Joe Biden and Mitt Romney get absolutely obliterated by lies and bvllsh1t

I'm sure Trumps crowd are currently working on an ad using Kamala Harris's words against Biden which IMHO was as dastardly an attack on his character as any Republican could ever have concocted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
A group of Republican ex national security officials are going to endorse Biden and campaign for him. They include at least two dozen who served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. This is in addition to the Lincoln Project, a Republican-led effort to run anti-Trump ads in battleground states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2020, 10:51:56 PM
https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 23, 2020, 11:33:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 10:51:56 PM
https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this
what a f**king joke
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 23, 2020, 11:44:22 PM
Yeah it's from racism carried out back in October so totally ok 👍 👍
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 12:01:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 23, 2020, 11:44:22 PM
Yeah it's from racism carried out back in October so totally ok 👍 👍

The Black driver was randomly assigned that bay over the weekend so unless the person who did it had a crystal ball 7 months ago ....

And another report said it didn't even look Like a noose

But I think it may have looked like an upside down red triangle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on June 24, 2020, 12:09:18 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 23, 2020, 11:44:22 PM
Yeah it's from racism carried out back in October so totally ok 👍 👍

Nope.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 24, 2020, 05:01:10 AM
AOC seems to be romping home in her district with 70% of the vote so far. Go on ya girl ya!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:42 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 23, 2020, 11:44:22 PM
Yeah it's from racism carried out back in October so totally ok 👍 👍
maybe it was jussie Smollet or his Nigerian buddies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 24, 2020, 06:31:25 AM
Maybe the wind blew it into the shape of a noose.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 24, 2020, 08:49:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 12:01:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 23, 2020, 11:44:22 PM
Yeah it's from racism carried out back in October so totally ok 👍 👍

The Black driver was randomly assigned that bay over the weekend so unless the person who did it had a crystal ball 7 months ago ....

And another report said it didn't even look Like a noose

But I think it may have looked like an upside down red triangle

Any comments on the son of another driver who said he wished it was a noose so he could drag bubba round the pit lane?
The father distanced himself from his sons comments but he didn't lick that off the ground.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on June 24, 2020, 08:58:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 24, 2020, 05:01:10 AM
AOC seems to be romping home in her district with 70% of the vote so far. Go on ya girl ya!

Its like praising Sinn Fein for winning West Belfast.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 11:15:05 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 24, 2020, 08:49:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 12:01:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 23, 2020, 11:44:22 PM
Yeah it's from racism carried out back in October so totally ok 👍 👍

The Black driver was randomly assigned that bay over the weekend so unless the person who did it had a crystal ball 7 months ago ....

And another report said it didn't even look Like a noose

But I think it may have looked like an upside down red triangle

Any comments on the son of another driver who said he wished it was a noose so he could drag bubba round the pit lane?
The father distanced himself from his sons comments but he didn't lick that off the ground.

It was disgraceful and he should be banned from any participation in the sport

Bubba adding fuel to the fire by doubling down about the "noose" on Don Lemon last night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 24, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
A group of Republican ex national security officials are going to endorse Biden and campaign for him. They include at least two dozen who served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. This is in addition to the Lincoln Project, a Republican-led effort to run anti-Trump ads in battleground states.
Like John Bolton, these guys are so p***ed off that Trump has stopped their wars. Like Reagan in this second term, a declining President Biden would be a very soft touch for them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 10:51:56 PM
https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this

Yes, what could this driver have been thinking, given the history and paraphernalia of NASCAR!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:56:57 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
A group of Republican ex national security officials are going to endorse Biden and campaign for him. They include at least two dozen who served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. This is in addition to the Lincoln Project, a Republican-led effort to run anti-Trump ads in battleground states.
Like John Bolton, these guys are so p***ed off that Trump has stopped their wars. Like Reagan in this second term, a declining President Biden would be a very soft touch for them.

Or maybe some of them are appalled at what's happened to the conservative movement and the charlatan, in it only for himself, who has taken it over?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 24, 2020, 01:00:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:56:57 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
A group of Republican ex national security officials are going to endorse Biden and campaign for him. They include at least two dozen who served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. This is in addition to the Lincoln Project, a Republican-led effort to run anti-Trump ads in battleground states.
Like John Bolton, these guys are so p***ed off that Trump has stopped their wars. Like Reagan in this second term, a declining President Biden would be a very soft touch for them.

Or maybe some of them are appalled at what's happened to the conservative movement and the charlatan, in it only for himself, who has taken it over?

When warmongers are appalled, I am happy.

The typical neocon warmonger is about as conservative as Bernie Sanders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:05:51 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 01:00:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:56:57 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
A group of Republican ex national security officials are going to endorse Biden and campaign for him. They include at least two dozen who served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. This is in addition to the Lincoln Project, a Republican-led effort to run anti-Trump ads in battleground states.
Like John Bolton, these guys are so p***ed off that Trump has stopped their wars. Like Reagan in this second term, a declining President Biden would be a very soft touch for them.

Or maybe some of them are appalled at what's happened to the conservative movement and the charlatan, in it only for himself, who has taken it over?

When warmongers are appalled, I am happy.

The typical neocon warmonger is about as conservative as Bernie Sanders.

I must be misremembering "freedom fries" and "if you're not with us, you're agin us" and the brow-beating of the US people by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, rapturously cheered on by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, into the Iraq war. Cynthia McKinney, a brave black congresswoman who was the only one to stand against Bush was public enemy number 1. Remember that mother of a dead soldier who was torn to shreads by the right for daring to stand up and call bullshit (I can't remember her name, but I'll find it). American conservatism, from the 40s forward, has been completely comfortable with foreign intervention and wars. That some of them changed their mind in the aftermath of things turning shit in Iraq doesn't change history.

edit: Cindy Sheehan
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 10:51:56 PM
https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this

Yes, what could this driver have been thinking, given the history and paraphernalia of NASCAR!

Or maybe the fact that there was another noose hoax just last week out in California
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:10:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 10:51:56 PM
https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this

Yes, what could this driver have been thinking, given the history and paraphernalia of NASCAR!

Or maybe the fact that there was another noose hoax just last week out in California

Ah... so they ALL have to be a hoax?

How should Wallace have reacted here?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:16:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:10:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 10:51:56 PM
https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this

Yes, what could this driver have been thinking, given the history and paraphernalia of NASCAR!

Or maybe the fact that there was another noose hoax just last week out in California

Ah... so they ALL have to be a hoax?

How should Wallace have reacted here?

Who said that?

This talladega one had all the hallmarks of a hoax

Picture of "noose" not released

Driver himself didn't see it

So the one out in Oakland, a fvckin black guy admitted putting the ropes up for exercise
Purposes and the idiot Mayor is still calling it a hate crime.

Hate to say it, but like the faux outrages about Trump, this stuff actually is beginning to backfire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 24, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:05:51 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 01:00:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:56:57 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
A group of Republican ex national security officials are going to endorse Biden and campaign for him. They include at least two dozen who served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. This is in addition to the Lincoln Project, a Republican-led effort to run anti-Trump ads in battleground states.
Like John Bolton, these guys are so p***ed off that Trump has stopped their wars. Like Reagan in this second term, a declining President Biden would be a very soft touch for them.

Or maybe some of them are appalled at what's happened to the conservative movement and the charlatan, in it only for himself, who has taken it over?

When warmongers are appalled, I am happy.

The typical neocon warmonger is about as conservative as Bernie Sanders.

I must be misremembering "freedom fries" and "if you're not with us, you're agin us" and the brow-beating of the US people by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, rapturously cheered on by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, into the Iraq war. Cynthia McKinney, a brave black congresswoman who was the only one to stand against Bush was public enemy number 1. Remember that mother of a dead soldier who was torn to shreads by the right for daring to stand up and call bullshit (I can't remember her name, but I'll find it). American conservatism, from the 40s forward, has been completely comfortable with foreign intervention and wars. That some of them changed their mind in the aftermath of things turning shit in Iraq doesn't change history.

edit: Cindy Sheehan
The only thing remotely conservative about Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld was the political party they hijacked. They allied with Tony Bloody Blair for heaven's sake.

I find it hilarious that you're now praising their lackeys for attacking Trump, who for all his faults refuses to play their war games.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:16:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:10:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2020, 10:51:56 PM
https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this

Yes, what could this driver have been thinking, given the history and paraphernalia of NASCAR!

Or maybe the fact that there was another noose hoax just last week out in California

Ah... so they ALL have to be a hoax?

How should Wallace have reacted here?

Who said that?

This talladega one had all the hallmarks of a hoax

Picture of "noose" not released

Driver himself didn't see it

So the one out in Oakland, a fvckin black guy admitted putting the ropes up for exercise
Purposes and the idiot Mayor is still calling it a hate crime.

Hate to say it, but like the faux outrages about Trump, this stuff actually is beginning to backfire

Again, how should Wallace have reacted?

In what way are what YOU term "faux outrages" about Trump starting to backfire?

Has the red triangle helped his numbers? Are those ads going ahead? (You still haven't posted anything to back up your assertion that they got it from Antifa).

The only thing that might "help" Trump is that he is such a corrupt, inept and offensive character that he keeps churning out things that would consume any ordinary politician at such a rate that people can't keep up as the story moves on to the next one. Few of these are "faux outrages". If Biden has any sense, he will be making ads to remind people of all the things Trump has said and all the scandals that would have tanked any other politician. Just like the Lincoln Project.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:28:49 PM
J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:57:00 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:05:51 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 01:00:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 12:56:57 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
A group of Republican ex national security officials are going to endorse Biden and campaign for him. They include at least two dozen who served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. This is in addition to the Lincoln Project, a Republican-led effort to run anti-Trump ads in battleground states.
Like John Bolton, these guys are so p***ed off that Trump has stopped their wars. Like Reagan in this second term, a declining President Biden would be a very soft touch for them.

Or maybe some of them are appalled at what's happened to the conservative movement and the charlatan, in it only for himself, who has taken it over?

When warmongers are appalled, I am happy.

The typical neocon warmonger is about as conservative as Bernie Sanders.

I must be misremembering "freedom fries" and "if you're not with us, you're agin us" and the brow-beating of the US people by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, rapturously cheered on by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, into the Iraq war. Cynthia McKinney, a brave black congresswoman who was the only one to stand against Bush was public enemy number 1. Remember that mother of a dead soldier who was torn to shreads by the right for daring to stand up and call bullshit (I can't remember her name, but I'll find it). American conservatism, from the 40s forward, has been completely comfortable with foreign intervention and wars. That some of them changed their mind in the aftermath of things turning shit in Iraq doesn't change history.

edit: Cindy Sheehan
The only thing remotely conservative about Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld was the political party they hijacked. They allied with Tony Bloody Blair for heaven's sake.

I find it hilarious that you're now praising their lackeys for attacking Trump, who for all his faults refuses to play their war games.

1. Bush, Cheney, Rumself and the rest were GOP stalworts, longtime members of various administrations, congress and governor of Texas. It is ludicrous to try to claim that they hijacked the party.

2. I have a lot more admiration for those who speak out (albeit not Bolton, who saved his revelations for his book instead of testifying) than the vast majority of Republicans who talk honestly in private, but cower down in pubic, scared shitless of saying anything lest Trump give them a nickname or call them out on Twitter and rouse the rabble of the GOP base against them, ending up in a primary challenge by someone who "was Trump before Trump was Trump". Unfortunately, most of these people only do speak out after they've left and their career as a current Republican is effectively over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 24, 2020, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:57:00 PM

1. Bush, Cheney, Rumself and the rest were GOP stalworts, longtime members of various administrations, congress and governor of Texas. It is ludicrous to try to claim that they hijacked the party.
Hardly ludicrous, no more it is to say that Charlie Haughey and his cronies (all party stalwarts and longtime administration members) hijacked Fianna Fáil and Tony Blair and his (ditto) hijacked UK Labour.


Quote
2. I have a lot more admiration for those who speak out (albeit not Bolton, who saved his revelations for his book instead of testifying) than the vast majority of Republicans who talk honestly in private, but cower down in pubic, scared shitless of saying anything lest Trump give them a nickname or call them out on Twitter and rouse the rabble of the GOP base against them, ending up in a primary challenge by someone who "was Trump before Trump was Trump". Unfortunately, most of these people only do speak out after they've left and their career as a current Republican is effectively over.

It speaks volumes that you have a bigger gripe about Trump than about a gang of bloodsoaked warmongers who sent countless thousands to their deaths.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:28:49 PM
J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)

He is adamant it was noose, whether or not it was intended for someone else. I am sure he is well aware that, especially in the sport he is in, that continuing to speak out might not play too well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 02:11:25 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 01:57:00 PM

1. Bush, Cheney, Rumself and the rest were GOP stalworts, longtime members of various administrations, congress and governor of Texas. It is ludicrous to try to claim that they hijacked the party.
Hardly ludicrous, no more it is to say that Charlie Haughey and his cronies (all party stalwarts and longtime administration members) hijacked Fianna Fáil and Tony Blair and his (ditto) hijacked UK Labour.


Quote
2. I have a lot more admiration for those who speak out (albeit not Bolton, who saved his revelations for his book instead of testifying) than the vast majority of Republicans who talk honestly in private, but cower down in pubic, scared shitless of saying anything lest Trump give them a nickname or call them out on Twitter and rouse the rabble of the GOP base against them, ending up in a primary challenge by someone who "was Trump before Trump was Trump". Unfortunately, most of these people only do speak out after they've left and their career as a current Republican is effectively over.

It speaks volumes that you have a bigger gripe about Trump than about a gang of bloodsoaked warmongers who sent countless thousands to their deaths.

1. So from whom did Bush and the rest "hijack" the party?
2. The GOP have been a bunch of warmongers for decades. But its just one of many things I find objectionable about them. And I don't for a second think Trump wouldn't launch a war if he thought it would help his personal prospects. But the fact is that, here and now, Trump is the president, and his conduct, rhetoric and policies are the immediate concern. What numerous former administration members are documenting should probably be concerning to you too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 24, 2020, 02:20:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 02:11:25 PM

1. So from whom did Bush and the rest "hijack" the party?
Bush Snr took over just as the Cold War was coming to an end and the world was settling down. Within a few years he was fighting Saddam Hussein. The rest is history.
Quote
2. The GOP have been a bunch of warmongers for decades. But its just one of many things I find objectionable about them. And I don't for a second think Trump wouldn't launch a war if he thought it would help his personal prospects. But the fact is that, here and now, Trump is the president, and his conduct, rhetoric and policies are the immediate concern. What numerous former administration members are documenting should probably be concerning to you too.
I'd be more concerned about the warmongers, to be honest. Biden, if he wins, will be putty in their hands.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:28:49 PM
J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)

He is adamant it was noose, whether or not it was intended for someone else. I am sure he is well aware that, especially in the sport he is in, that continuing to speak out might not play too well.

He can be adamant all he wants-ALL REPORTS were that he didn't even see it himself. A team member saw it, cut it down and then reported it

Aren't you suspicious they haven't released a picture of it yet?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 04:44:51 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 02:20:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 02:11:25 PM

1. So from whom did Bush and the rest "hijack" the party?
Bush Snr took over just as the Cold War was coming to an end and the world was settling down. Within a few years he was fighting Saddam Hussein. The rest is history.
Quote
2. The GOP have been a bunch of warmongers for decades. But its just one of many things I find objectionable about them. And I don't for a second think Trump wouldn't launch a war if he thought it would help his personal prospects. But the fact is that, here and now, Trump is the president, and his conduct, rhetoric and policies are the immediate concern. What numerous former administration members are documenting should probably be concerning to you too.
I'd be more concerned about the warmongers, to be honest. Biden, if he wins, will be putty in their hands.

Both US parties were fully signed on for foreign interventions, whether direct or covert or through clients, for decades before either Bush.

But even if they weren't, political parties continually evolve and change in response to the times. The GOP weren't always the crazy guns, god and gays party they became in the past few decades. Tony Blair's New Labour reformed Labour in response to the way the world was in the 90s, when a middle ground between the leftist politics of the old Labour party and Thatcherism was being sought. Same as Bill Clinton's response to the rise of Newt Gingrich. The only person in this conversation who has "hijacked" a party is Donald Trump, who has taken over a movement and made it all about him, personally.

Why you think neocons would be given any prominent role in a Biden administration is not clear to me. Are there currently any saber-rattling Democratic politicians around that you're talking about instead?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 04:47:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:28:49 PM
J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)

He is adamant it was noose, whether or not it was intended for someone else. I am sure he is well aware that, especially in the sport he is in, that continuing to speak out might not play too well.

He can be adamant all he wants-ALL REPORTS were that he didn't even see it himself. A team member saw it, cut it down and then reported it

Aren't you suspicious they haven't released a picture of it yet?

What does it matter if he saw it himself or not? He said it was photographed. Presumably he was shown a picture.

I don't know about the photo. What are those who are so determined that it wasn't a noose basing their opinions on? Presumably they've also seen it. Why haven't THEY released the photo?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 04:57:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 04:47:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 01:28:49 PM
J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)

He is adamant it was noose, whether or not it was intended for someone else. I am sure he is well aware that, especially in the sport he is in, that continuing to speak out might not play too well.

He can be adamant all he wants-ALL REPORTS were that he didn't even see it himself. A team member saw it, cut it down and then reported it

Aren't you suspicious they haven't released a picture of it yet?

What does it matter if he saw it himself or not? He said it was photographed. Presumably he was shown a picture.

I don't know about the photo. What are those who are so determined that it wasn't a noose basing their opinions on? Presumably they've also seen it. Why haven't THEY released the photo?
garage door manual pull strings are often tied like that to stop people banging their heads off the pull part, there's nooses in half the garage doors around the country so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 24, 2020, 05:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 04:44:51 PM
Why you think neocons would be given any prominent role in a Biden administration is not clear to me.
Because that is what they do. They had Obama tied up in foreign wars for the duration of his two presidencies. And Biden looks a lot weaker than Obama was when he assumed office.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 24, 2020, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
Aren't you suspicious they haven't released a picture of it yet?

???

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200623205445-nascar-door-rope-noose-exlarge-169.jpg)

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/bubba-wallace-response-fbi-hate-crime-investigation/index.html

QuoteWhen asked why the FBI characterized the rope found in Bubba Wallace's garage as a noose, Birmingham FBI spokesperson Paul Damon told CNN, "It's my understanding that the rope was fashioned into a noose knot and used as a door pull."

QuoteNASCAR driver Bubba Wallace says he's "pissed" members of the public are now questioning his integrity after the FBI said a noose found in his garage stall this week was there before his team moved in.

"I'm mad because people are trying to test my character and the person that I am and my integrity," he told CNN's Don Lemon Tuesday night.

Talking to Lemon, Wallace said the image he saw of "what was hanging in my garage is not a garage pull."
"It was a noose," Wallace said. "Whether tied in 2019 or whatever, it was a noose. So, it wasn't directed at me but somebody tied a noose. That's what I'm saying."


Seems its just an unfortunate chain of events. Bubba Wallace was shown a picture of the noose, unaware that it had been there for a year and then it kicked off.

One investigation later and photographic evidence, reproduced above, shows the noose in question a year ago. Now people are questioning his integrity for either bowing to pressure or exaggerating it. Neither of which are true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 05:30:05 PM
And there's about 10 other picture circulating (taken from Same/different angles and distances) And it doesn't look anything  like a noose. When I said "they" should release it ....I was talking about the FBI who seemingly have the actual "noose" in their position
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 05:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 04:44:51 PM
Why you think neocons would be given any prominent role in a Biden administration is not clear to me.
Because that is what they do. They had Obama tied up in foreign wars for the duration of his two presidencies. And Biden looks a lot weaker than Obama was when he assumed office.

The neocons were the reason Obama got involved, with UN backing, in Libya and so on?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 05:35:46 PM
Looks like a noose to me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 24, 2020, 05:39:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 05:35:46 PM
Looks like a noose to me.

A noose for a cat maybe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 24, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 05:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 04:44:51 PM
Why you think neocons would be given any prominent role in a Biden administration is not clear to me.
Because that is what they do. They had Obama tied up in foreign wars for the duration of his two presidencies. And Biden looks a lot weaker than Obama was when he assumed office.

The neocons were the reason Obama got involved, with UN backing, in Libya and so on?

The neocons are tied at the hip with the US military industrial complex. Everything they touch turns to blood. But orange man bad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 05:42:14 PM
How do you put pictures up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on June 24, 2020, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 05:42:14 PM
How do you put pictures up?

The button under the Bold button above will give you (//)
Copy and paste the url of your picture in the middle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 05:46:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 05:35:46 PM
Looks like a noose to me.
its a rope for pulling a door up or down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 24, 2020, 05:53:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 05:42:14 PM
How do you put pictures up?

remove the spaces:

[ img ]  hyperlinkToImage [ /img ]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 05:39:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 05:35:46 PM
Looks like a noose to me.

A noose for a cat maybe.

1. Nooses can be loosened and tightened.
2. The issue is not that someone was going to hang anyone. Its a noose being used, whether real or perceived, as a symbol to intimidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:18:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 05:46:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 05:35:46 PM
Looks like a noose to me.
its a rope for pulling a door up or down

That may be so.

It still looks like a noose.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:20:10 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
Quote from: five points on June 24, 2020, 05:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 04:44:51 PM
Why you think neocons would be given any prominent role in a Biden administration is not clear to me.
Because that is what they do. They had Obama tied up in foreign wars for the duration of his two presidencies. And Biden looks a lot weaker than Obama was when he assumed office.

The neocons were the reason Obama got involved, with UN backing, in Libya and so on?

The neocons are tied at the hip with the US military industrial complex. Everything they touch turns to blood. But orange man bad.

The orange man IS bad.

Doesn't mean everyone else isn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
notes say Biden suggests Logan act ( he said a few weeks ago he knew nothing about it )
Obama wanted the right people to go after (frame) Flynn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
notes say Biden suggests Logan act ( he said a few weeks ago he knew nothing about it )
Obama wanted the right people to go after (frame) Flynn

"Frame"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
notes say Biden suggests Logan act ( he said a few weeks ago he knew nothing about it )
Obama wanted the right people to go after (frame) Flynn

"Frame"?

Comey seems to indicate there is no problem with the Flynn/Kislyiak call, so frame would be a pretty good description
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
notes say Biden suggests Logan act ( he said a few weeks ago he knew nothing about it )
Obama wanted the right people to go after (frame) Flynn

"Frame"?

Comey seems to indicate there is no problem with the Flynn/Kislyiak call, so frame would be a pretty good description

You'll have to forgive my skepticism about him being "framed" given the two guilty pleas, the sacking by Trump and the general conduct of the William Barr justice department.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 07:28:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
notes say Biden suggests Logan act ( he said a few weeks ago he knew nothing about it )
Obama wanted the right people to go after (frame) Flynn

"Frame"?

Comey seems to indicate there is no problem with the Flynn/Kislyiak call, so frame would be a pretty good description

You'll have to forgive my skepticism about him being "framed" given the two guilty pleas, the sacking by Trump and the general conduct of the William Barr justice department.

If it was all on the up and up, why weren't all the notes turned over to Flynn's defense team as they were legally obligated to do ?  (Or are they just honest mistakes like the 17 errors in the FISA applications)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2020, 07:32:37 PM
Ah - we're back to believing Comey now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2020, 07:32:37 PM
Ah - we're back to believing Comey now?
and John Bolton
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2020, 07:32:37 PM
Ah - we're back to believing Comey now?
and John Bolton

Bolton's one of your own. (as was Comey and Mueller originally!)

Problem for you with Bolton is that he is one in a long line of people to exit the administration and reveal what they witnessed. He didn't really tell us much that we didn't already know or suspect.

So its basically either they are all lying and making shit up and Trump is completely different behind closed doors than he is in public, or there must be serious issues behind the scenes.

It should also be noted that Trump, famously litigious, has not sued any of these authors or publishers. Bolton, in particular, apparently, is a fastidious note taker, and probably has the goods sitting there waiting for the lawsuit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 07:28:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
notes say Biden suggests Logan act ( he said a few weeks ago he knew nothing about it )
Obama wanted the right people to go after (frame) Flynn

"Frame"?

Comey seems to indicate there is no problem with the Flynn/Kislyiak call, so frame would be a pretty good description

You'll have to forgive my skepticism about him being "framed" given the two guilty pleas, the sacking by Trump and the general conduct of the William Barr justice department.

If it was all on the up and up, why weren't all the notes turned over to Flynn's defense team as they were legally obligated to do ?  (Or are they just honest mistakes like the 17 errors in the FISA applications)

No idea. I'll leave that up to the investigators. Where was Flynn's no-doubt-expensive legal team? Why did he plead guilty twice? Why did Trump fire him? Why did his justice department prosecute? Where is the evidence that Obama framed him as Gmac suggests?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 08:09:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2020, 07:32:37 PM
Ah - we're back to believing Comey now?
and John Bolton

Bolton's one of your own. (as was Comey and Mueller originally!)

Problem for you with Bolton is that he is one in a long line of people to exit the administration and reveal what they witnessed. He didn't really tell us much that we didn't already know or suspect.

So its basically either they are all lying and making shit up and Trump is completely different behind closed doors than he is in public, or there must be serious issues behind the scenes.

It should also be noted that Trump, famously litigious, has not sued any of these authors or publishers. Bolton, in particular, apparently, is a fastidious note taker, and probably has the goods sitting there waiting for the lawsuit.
he on cnn yet ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 07:28:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
notes say Biden suggests Logan act ( he said a few weeks ago he knew nothing about it )
Obama wanted the right people to go after (frame) Flynn

"Frame"?

Comey seems to indicate there is no problem with the Flynn/Kislyiak call, so frame would be a pretty good description

You'll have to forgive my skepticism about him being "framed" given the two guilty pleas, the sacking by Trump and the general conduct of the William Barr justice department.

If it was all on the up and up, why weren't all the notes turned over to Flynn's defense team as they were legally obligated to do ?  (Or are they just honest mistakes like the 17 errors in the FISA applications)

No idea. I'll leave that up to the investigators. Where was Flynn's no-doubt-expensive legal team? Why did he plead guilty twice? Why did Trump fire him? Why did his justice department prosecute? Where is the evidence that Obama framed him as Gmac suggests?

J70-have you been following this at all?

Original defense team were seriously compromised

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/29/flynns-original-defense-team-repeatedly-rejected-congressional-immunity-overtures/

As Hillary said when they left the White House they were "dead broke" due to legal fees....Same would have happened to Flynn and he didn't have the friends in high places the Clintons had to bail him out and they threatened to go after his entire family. (I actually know of someone this happened to)

He took a deal-was supposed to get a suspended sentence, and move on with his life-except Judge Sullivan didn't get that part of the memo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 08:37:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 07:28:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
notes say Biden suggests Logan act ( he said a few weeks ago he knew nothing about it )
Obama wanted the right people to go after (frame) Flynn

"Frame"?

Comey seems to indicate there is no problem with the Flynn/Kislyiak call, so frame would be a pretty good description

You'll have to forgive my skepticism about him being "framed" given the two guilty pleas, the sacking by Trump and the general conduct of the William Barr justice department.

If it was all on the up and up, why weren't all the notes turned over to Flynn's defense team as they were legally obligated to do ?  (Or are they just honest mistakes like the 17 errors in the FISA applications)

No idea. I'll leave that up to the investigators. Where was Flynn's no-doubt-expensive legal team? Why did he plead guilty twice? Why did Trump fire him? Why did his justice department prosecute? Where is the evidence that Obama framed him as Gmac suggests?

J70-have you been following this at all?

Original defense team were seriously compromised

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/29/flynns-original-defense-team-repeatedly-rejected-congressional-immunity-overtures/

As Hillary said when they left the White House they were "dead broke" due to legal fees....Same would have happened to Flynn and he didn't have the friends in high places the Clintons had to bail him out and they threatened to go after his entire family. (I actually know of someone this happened to)

He took a deal-was supposed to get a suspended sentence, and move on with his life-except Judge Sullivan didn't get that part of the memo

Have not been following with your level of interest probably, lol.

I just find it very hard to believe that Obama would try to "frame" Flynn two weeks before he was due to step down or that Trump wouldn't fight back at the time. What would be the point for Obama?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:55:05 PM
J70-delegitimize Trump and cause chaos in early days of new administration

LOL-the person who would have been responsible for the fight back would have been Flynn

Again, it all comes back to Michael Lewis' book and the chaos that ensued in the early days of the new administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:55:05 PM
J70-delegitimize Trump and cause chaos in early days of new administration

LOL-the person who would have been responsible for the fight back would have been Flynn

Again, it all comes back to Michael Lewis' book and the chaos that ensued in the early days of the new administration

Again, what would be the point? He was going to be president for four years, at least. I don't see how it would benefit Obama if things got off to a rocky start for Trump (as it turned out, its not as if he needed help anyway).

But, WTF do I know? We'll see what becomes of it. At this point I'm not seeing much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:55:05 PM
J70-delegitimize Trump and cause chaos in early days of new administration

LOL-the person who would have been responsible for the fight back would have been Flynn

Again, it all comes back to Michael Lewis' book and the chaos that ensued in the early days of the new administration

Again, what would be the point? He was going to be president for four years, at least. I don't see how it would benefit Obama if things got off to a rocky start for Trump (as it turned out, its not as if he needed help anyway).

But, WTF do I know? We'll see what becomes of it. At this point I'm not seeing much.

You're very naive

Some of his staff said on Inauguration Day-the resistance begins today

"UN Ambassador Samantha Power

Changing twitter accounts in 6 days when Donald Trump enters the Oval. Follow me
@SamanthaJPower
. We are not going gently into the night."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2020, 10:22:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:55:05 PM
J70-delegitimize Trump and cause chaos in early days of new administration

LOL-the person who would have been responsible for the fight back would have been Flynn

Again, it all comes back to Michael Lewis' book and the chaos that ensued in the early days of the new administration

Again, what would be the point? He was going to be president for four years, at least. I don't see how it would benefit Obama if things got off to a rocky start for Trump (as it turned out, its not as if he needed help anyway).

But, WTF do I know? We'll see what becomes of it. At this point I'm not seeing much.

You're very naive

Some of his staff said on Inauguration Day-the resistance begins today

"UN Ambassador Samantha Power

Changing twitter accounts in 6 days when Donald Trump enters the Oval. Follow me
@SamanthaJPower
. We are not going gently into the night."

I would expect any opposition party to work to resist a diametrically opposed successor.

That doesn't mean framing people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 24, 2020, 11:17:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
Circuit court orders lower court to dismiss charges against Michael Flynn.
and according to new fbi notes disclosed Obama was all over this .

Meaning...??
US justice is totally fucked. Ruling made by a lackey judge installed specifically to corrupt the justice system.

Carl Schmitt "justice" is not justice. It's a fascist power grab by a fascist regime. Call it what it is.

Flynn is openly a foreign agent and was installed as National Security Adviser to undermine US national security for the benefit of Russia and Turkey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:55:05 PM
J70-delegitimize Trump and cause chaos in early days of new administration

LOL-the person who would have been responsible for the fight back would have been Flynn

Again, it all comes back to Michael Lewis' book and the chaos that ensued in the early days of the new administration

Again, what would be the point? He was going to be president for four years, at least. I don't see how it would benefit Obama if things got off to a rocky start for Trump (as it turned out, its not as if he needed help anyway).

But, WTF do I know? We'll see what becomes of it. At this point I'm not seeing much.
he wouldn't be president for four years if they got their way,  Obama and Flynn were on completely different wave lengths when it came to the Middle East and Russia, having Flynn in foreign policy would have meant a reversal of Obama's policies which happened anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 24, 2020, 11:25:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:55:05 PM
J70-delegitimize Trump and cause chaos in early days of new administration

LOL-the person who would have been responsible for the fight back would have been Flynn

Again, it all comes back to Michael Lewis' book and the chaos that ensued in the early days of the new administration

Again, what would be the point? He was going to be president for four years, at least. I don't see how it would benefit Obama if things got off to a rocky start for Trump (as it turned out, its not as if he needed help anyway).

But, WTF do I know? We'll see what becomes of it. At this point I'm not seeing much.
he wouldn't be president for four years if they got their way,  Obama and Flynn were on completely different wave lengths when it came to the Middle East and Russia, having Flynn in foreign policy would have meant a reversal of Obama's policies which happened anyway.
Democrats rolled over for Trump. That's the reality. When a fascist regime is installed, you fight against them with all your might from before day 1 and then keep going until they're buried into the dirt where they belong. You go to f**king war.

The Democrats and the normality-biased establishment across the whole of US politics, media, law enforcement and civic society didn't do that. They were unbelievably soft on Trump. They let him away with bloody murder. It was massive institutional failure at all levels.

Which is why the US has what it now has - open fascism - which will result in a fixed, banana republic or Russian type "election" where Trump, who in a fair election would lose comfortably, will "win".

And people will act surprised, when it's f**king obvious what's going to happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 24, 2020, 11:35:58 PM
US Covid cases are back up to record levels.

Failure is not a strong enough word, and it isn't even applicable, as failure implies good faith on the part of Trump, when malice is the guiding force.

What is not very much commented on is the total and utter disdain Trump has for the health of his own supporters by scheduling these fascist rallies. It's disgusting.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2020, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2020, 11:25:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:55:05 PM
J70-delegitimize Trump and cause chaos in early days of new administration

LOL-the person who would have been responsible for the fight back would have been Flynn

Again, it all comes back to Michael Lewis' book and the chaos that ensued in the early days of the new administration

Again, what would be the point? He was going to be president for four years, at least. I don't see how it would benefit Obama if things got off to a rocky start for Trump (as it turned out, its not as if he needed help anyway).

But, WTF do I know? We'll see what becomes of it. At this point I'm not seeing much.
he wouldn't be president for four years if they got their way,  Obama and Flynn were on completely different wave lengths when it came to the Middle East and Russia, having Flynn in foreign policy would have meant a reversal of Obama's policies which happened anyway.
Democrats rolled over for Trump. That's the reality. When a fascist regime is installed, you fight against them with all your might from before day 1 and then keep going until they're buried into the dirt where they belong. You go to f**king war.

The Democrats and the normality-biased establishment across the whole of US politics, media, law enforcement and civic society didn't do that. They were unbelievably soft on Trump. They let him away with bloody murder. It was massive institutional failure at all levels.

Which is why the US has what it now has - open fascism - which will result in a fixed, banana republic or Russian type "election" where Trump, who in a fair election would lose comfortably, will "win".

And people will act surprised, when it's f**king obvious what's going to happen.

He won the election you clown.

That's what the Democrats don't see to understand or accept
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 24, 2020, 11:58:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2020, 11:25:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:55:05 PM
J70-delegitimize Trump and cause chaos in early days of new administration

LOL-the person who would have been responsible for the fight back would have been Flynn

Again, it all comes back to Michael Lewis' book and the chaos that ensued in the early days of the new administration

Again, what would be the point? He was going to be president for four years, at least. I don't see how it would benefit Obama if things got off to a rocky start for Trump (as it turned out, its not as if he needed help anyway).

But, WTF do I know? We'll see what becomes of it. At this point I'm not seeing much.
he wouldn't be president for four years if they got their way,  Obama and Flynn were on completely different wave lengths when it came to the Middle East and Russia, having Flynn in foreign policy would have meant a reversal of Obama's policies which happened anyway.
Democrats rolled over for Trump. That's the reality. When a fascist regime is installed, you fight against them with all your might from before day 1 and then keep going until they're buried into the dirt where they belong. You go to f**king war.

The Democrats and the normality-biased establishment across the whole of US politics, media, law enforcement and civic society didn't do that. They were unbelievably soft on Trump. They let him away with bloody murder. It was massive institutional failure at all levels.

Which is why the US has what it now has - open fascism - which will result in a fixed, banana republic or Russian type "election" where Trump, who in a fair election would lose comfortably, will "win".

And people will act surprised, when it's f**king obvious what's going to happen.

He won the election you clown.

That's what the Democrats don't see to understand or accept
More pathetic gaslighting that what is happening in the US isn't fascism.

You gaslight because you support fascism.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:05:13 AM
Sid-When you take your citizenship exam you learn that the Electoral College elects the President of the United States
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)


Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:18:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2020, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2020, 08:55:05 PM
J70-delegitimize Trump and cause chaos in early days of new administration

LOL-the person who would have been responsible for the fight back would have been Flynn

Again, it all comes back to Michael Lewis' book and the chaos that ensued in the early days of the new administration

Again, what would be the point? He was going to be president for four years, at least. I don't see how it would benefit Obama if things got off to a rocky start for Trump (as it turned out, its not as if he needed help anyway).

But, WTF do I know? We'll see what becomes of it. At this point I'm not seeing much.
he wouldn't be president for four years if they got their way,  Obama and Flynn were on completely different wave lengths when it came to the Middle East and Russia, having Flynn in foreign policy would have meant a reversal of Obama's policies which happened anyway.

So how would that work? Frame Flynn and Trump is not president? Which would make.... Mike Pence president...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 25, 2020, 12:18:38 AM
Fascism is about playing out the clock.

That's what Trump is doing.

Democrats are like Man City holding the ball in the corner against Liverpool in 1996 when they needed to score again to avoid relegation.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1275919150808875009

Chairman Nadler, asked about the possibility of impeaching William Barr: "We're looking into that, we may very well."

https://twitter.com/olgaNYC1211/status/1275929485897056256

By the time its decided whether Barr should be impeached Obama's former admin officials including Biden will be dealing w sham prosecutions. That's how it works in Russia and other regimes. Opposition is removed

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 25, 2020, 12:23:36 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM

Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)
None of that takes into account hacking of election systems and vote falsification. Biden will need to be 15 points in front and in a position where networks can confidently call states for him from exit polls alone.

In 2000, 2004 and 2016, networks were confidently predicting Democratic wins early in the night before each time the Republican candidates mysteriously turned things around.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:29:31 AM
If the Democrats don't get out in front of this, they are going to pay for it in November

PD Officers Surrounded and Assaulted by Hostile Crowd While Attempting to Arrest Resistant Suspect Armed with a Loaded Firearm in Roxbury
June 24, 2020
DSCN0009.JPG
At about 5:40 PM on Tuesday June 23, 2020, officers assigned to District B-2 (Roxbury) made an on-site firearm arrest in the area of Humboldt Avenue and Crawford Street. 

Officers responded to a radio call for a person in the area of Maple Street and Cheney Street carrying a fanny pack with a gun inside.   

While traveling on Cheney Street towards Blue Hill Avenue, officers observed a male carrying a fanny pack around his left shoulder. Officers exited their marked cruiser to speak with the male, later identified as Jermaine Thomas, 44, of Mattapan. 

Due to the nature of the call a large crowd gathered in the area. Officers attempted to gain control of the suspects hands at which time the suspect immediately grabbed the officer's wrist and began squeezing it. As officers struggled to gain control, the suspect ripped his hands away and continued to resist by clinching his arms and pushing at officers causing a Body Worn Camera to be knocked off and picked up by an unknown bystander. 

As the crowd grew larger, a Boston Fire Department hydrant was illegally opened causing a heavy flow of water pressure onto the street directed at the officers.     

Officers, while still attempting to place the male into handcuffs, felt an object consistent with that of a firearm inside of the fanny pack.  An unknown suspect was throwing buckets of water on the officers while they were attempting to place the suspect into the marked cruiser after placing him in handcuffs. Officers recovered a Ruger LCR .38 SPL revolver, loaded with 5 Rounds of  ammunition. The suspect was placed under arrest and immediately transported to District B-2 for booking.   

Jermaine Thomas was charged with Unlawful Possession of a Firearm (3rd and Subsequent), Unlawful Possession of Ammunition and Resisting Arrest. He is expected to be arraigned at Roxbury District Court.

Said Boston Police Commissioner William Gross, "I'm alarmed by the level of hostility my officers had to face while arresting a felon armed with an illegal firearm. They were attacked by members of the very same community they were attempting to protect by affecting this arrest. Public safety is a shared responsibility, we need to continue to work together, not in opposition towards one another, to achieve that goal."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Get out in front of what, exactly?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Get out in front of what, exactly?

A mob attacking the police who are trying to protect their neighborhood from a armed felon who are responding to a call

Not one local politician has offered any support to BPD in recent weeks

People are getting very fed up with the pandering and no one willing to call out wrongdoing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Get out in front of what, exactly?

A mob attacking the police who are trying to protect their neighborhood from a armed felon who are responding to a call

Not one local politician has offered any support to BPD in recent weeks

People are getting very fed up with the pandering and everyone afraid to call out wrongdoing

That's on the local politicians.

I would be surprised if they didn't comment on this incident. You can't have that.

I presume relations between the cops and the community in that area are not good?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Get out in front of what, exactly?

A mob attacking the police who are trying to protect their neighborhood from a armed felon who are responding to a call

Not one local politician has offered any support to BPD in recent weeks

People are getting very fed up with the pandering and no one willing to call out wrongdoing

Almost like something a Black Lives Matter spokesperson would say.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:58:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 25, 2020, 12:23:36 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM

Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)
None of that takes into account hacking of election systems and vote falsification. Biden will need to be 15 points in front and in a position where networks can confidently call states for him from exit polls alone.

In 2000, 2004 and 2016, networks were confidently predicting Democratic wins early in the night before each time the Republican candidates mysteriously turned things around.

The reason I prefer to watch betting markets rather than opinion polls is I'd imagine they do take into account the kind of factors you're talking about. That said, Democrats have learned the hard way not to get cocky and to play to the whistle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:59:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Get out in front of what, exactly?

A mob attacking the police who are trying to protect their neighborhood from a armed felon who are responding to a call

Not one local politician has offered any support to BPD in recent weeks

People are getting very fed up with the pandering and everyone afraid to call out wrongdoing

That's on the local politicians.

I would be surprised if they didn't comment on this incident. You can't have that.

I presume relations between the cops and the community in that area are not good?

Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey and Ayana Presley are local politicians. Ayanna Presley used to live in Roxbury iirc

I think in Boston generally relations are better than in other cities, but Roxbury would be the highest crime area in the city so inevitably you will have tensions

Chief is African American
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2020, 01:01:03 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Get out in front of what, exactly?

A mob attacking the police who are trying to protect their neighborhood from a armed felon who are responding to a call

Not one local politician has offered any support to BPD in recent weeks

People are getting very fed up with the pandering and no one willing to call out wrongdoing

Almost like something a Black Lives Matter spokesperson would say.

Agreed.....EVERYONE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 25, 2020, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 01:01:03 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Get out in front of what, exactly?

A mob attacking the police who are trying to protect their neighborhood from a armed felon who are responding to a call

Not one local politician has offered any support to BPD in recent weeks

People are getting very fed up with the pandering and no one willing to call out wrongdoing

Almost like something a Black Lives Matter spokesperson would say.

Agreed.....EVERYONE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS

But they're not, especially those meant to protect and serve and that's the problem.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 25, 2020, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 01:01:03 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Get out in front of what, exactly?

A mob attacking the police who are trying to protect their neighborhood from a armed felon who are responding to a call

Not one local politician has offered any support to BPD in recent weeks

People are getting very fed up with the pandering and no one willing to call out wrongdoing

Almost like something a Black Lives Matter spokesperson would say.

Agreed.....EVERYONE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS

But they're not, especially those meant to protect and serve and that's the problem.

Correct. It makes one wonder, what was that cop in Minnesota thinking?

He either felt it was totally okay to do what he did ( in which case serious questions need to be asked as to what type of psychos they're hiring)

Or he knew what he was doing was wrong but thought he'd get away with it (and now serious questions should be asked as to what types of policies and procedures will be in place)

Having lived here for 30+ years I have had minimal to almost zero interactions with the police. Any minor interactions have all been positive. I'm sure people of color would have a polar opposite view

Entire swarths of big cities like Chicago, Baltimore, Philly are virtual no go areas and it's almost impossible to police these neighborhoods. I knew a guy who was in the Chicago Housing Authority police......going around the housing projects executing warrants and providing back up during evictions for troublesome tenants. The stories he'd tell you would put your hair standing on end.

Maybe it's time to aggressively hire from the minority communities to police their own neighborhoods instead of it being a job for the white working and middle classEs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 25, 2020, 10:55:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 25, 2020, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 01:01:03 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Get out in front of what, exactly?

A mob attacking the police who are trying to protect their neighborhood from a armed felon who are responding to a call

Not one local politician has offered any support to BPD in recent weeks

People are getting very fed up with the pandering and no one willing to call out wrongdoing

Almost like something a Black Lives Matter spokesperson would say.

Agreed.....EVERYONE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS

But they're not, especially those meant to protect and serve and that's the problem.

Correct. It makes one wonder, what was that cop in Minnesota thinking?

He either felt it was totally okay to do what he did ( in which case serious questions need to be asked as to what type of psychos they're hiring)

Or he knew what he was doing was wrong but thought he'd get away with it (and now serious questions should be asked as to what types of policies and procedures will be in place)

Having lived here for 30+ years I have had minimal to almost zero interactions with the police. Any minor interactions have all been positive. I'm sure people of color would have a polar opposite view

Entire swarths of big cities like Chicago, Baltimore, Philly are virtual no go areas and it's almost impossible to police these neighborhoods. I knew a guy who was in the Chicago Housing Authority police......going around the housing projects executing warrants and providing back up during evictions for troublesome tenants. The stories he'd tell you would put your hair standing on end.

Maybe it's time to aggressively hire from the minority communities to police their own neighborhoods instead of it being a job for the white working and middle classEs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMIUy_ySA4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMIUy_ySA4)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 25, 2020, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 10:53:33 AMCorrect. It makes one wonder, what was that cop in Minnesota thinking?

He either felt it was totally okay to do what he did ( in which case serious questions need to be asked as to what type of psychos they're hiring)

Or he knew what he was doing was wrong but thought he'd get away with it (and now serious questions should be asked as to what types of policies and procedures will be in place)

Having lived here for 30+ years I have had minimal to almost zero interactions with the police. Any minor interactions have all been positive. I'm sure people of color would have a polar opposite view

Entire swarths of big cities like Chicago, Baltimore, Philly are virtual no go areas and it's almost impossible to police these neighborhoods. I knew a guy who was in the Chicago Housing Authority police......going around the housing projects executing warrants and providing back up during evictions for troublesome tenants. The stories he'd tell you would put your hair standing on end.

Maybe it's time to aggressively hire from the minority communities to police their own neighborhoods instead of it being a job for the white working and middle classEs

Fair play to ye Whitey, that's not far off the mark at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 25, 2020, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 25, 2020, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 10:53:33 AMCorrect. It makes one wonder, what was that cop in Minnesota thinking?

He either felt it was totally okay to do what he did ( in which case serious questions need to be asked as to what type of psychos they're hiring)

Or he knew what he was doing was wrong but thought he'd get away with it (and now serious questions should be asked as to what types of policies and procedures will be in place)

Having lived here for 30+ years I have had minimal to almost zero interactions with the police. Any minor interactions have all been positive. I'm sure people of color would have a polar opposite view

Entire swarths of big cities like Chicago, Baltimore, Philly are virtual no go areas and it's almost impossible to police these neighborhoods. I knew a guy who was in the Chicago Housing Authority police......going around the housing projects executing warrants and providing back up during evictions for troublesome tenants. The stories he'd tell you would put your hair standing on end.

Maybe it's time to aggressively hire from the minority communities to police their own neighborhoods instead of it being a job for the white working and middle classEs

Fair play to ye Whitey, that's not far off the mark at all.

The thing with your man with the knee on the neck of George Floyd he was actually going to get away with it scot free (and might still do) until the backlash occurred.
Image how many similar incidents happen and aren't videoed.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 25, 2020, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 25, 2020, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 10:53:33 AMCorrect. It makes one wonder, what was that cop in Minnesota thinking?

He either felt it was totally okay to do what he did ( in which case serious questions need to be asked as to what type of psychos they're hiring)

Or he knew what he was doing was wrong but thought he'd get away with it (and now serious questions should be asked as to what types of policies and procedures will be in place)

Having lived here for 30+ years I have had minimal to almost zero interactions with the police. Any minor interactions have all been positive. I'm sure people of color would have a polar opposite view

Entire swarths of big cities like Chicago, Baltimore, Philly are virtual no go areas and it's almost impossible to police these neighborhoods. I knew a guy who was in the Chicago Housing Authority police......going around the housing projects executing warrants and providing back up during evictions for troublesome tenants. The stories he'd tell you would put your hair standing on end.

Maybe it's time to aggressively hire from the minority communities to police their own neighborhoods instead of it being a job for the white working and middle classEs

Fair play to ye Whitey, that's not far off the mark at all.

The thing with your man with the knee on the neck of George Floyd he was actually going to get away with it scot free (and might still do) until the backlash occurred.
Image how many similar incidents happen and aren't videoed.

At least cops and Karens now know that they might get filmed.

Imagine what it was like in the past! There's a reason so many minority communities have such a toxic relationship with their local police and justice systems.

Will Smith said "Racism is not getting worse; it's getting filmed".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 25, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 25, 2020, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 25, 2020, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 10:53:33 AMCorrect. It makes one wonder, what was that cop in Minnesota thinking?

He either felt it was totally okay to do what he did ( in which case serious questions need to be asked as to what type of psychos they're hiring)

Or he knew what he was doing was wrong but thought he'd get away with it (and now serious questions should be asked as to what types of policies and procedures will be in place)

Having lived here for 30+ years I have had minimal to almost zero interactions with the police. Any minor interactions have all been positive. I'm sure people of color would have a polar opposite view

Entire swarths of big cities like Chicago, Baltimore, Philly are virtual no go areas and it's almost impossible to police these neighborhoods. I knew a guy who was in the Chicago Housing Authority police......going around the housing projects executing warrants and providing back up during evictions for troublesome tenants. The stories he'd tell you would put your hair standing on end.

Maybe it's time to aggressively hire from the minority communities to police their own neighborhoods instead of it being a job for the white working and middle classEs

Fair play to ye Whitey, that's not far off the mark at all.

The thing with your man with the knee on the neck of George Floyd he was actually going to get away with it scot free (and might still do) until the backlash occurred.
Image how many similar incidents happen and aren't videoed.

At least cops and Karens now know that they might get filmed.

Imagine what it was like in the past! There's a reason so many minority communities have such a toxic relationship with their local police and justice systems.

Will Smith said "Racism is not getting worse; it's getting filmed".
what other minorities have as bad a relationship with police as the black community.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 25, 2020, 04:19:25 PM
The LGBT one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 25, 2020, 05:01:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 25, 2020, 04:19:25 PM
The LGBT one
how so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 06:02:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 25, 2020, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 25, 2020, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 10:53:33 AMCorrect. It makes one wonder, what was that cop in Minnesota thinking?

He either felt it was totally okay to do what he did ( in which case serious questions need to be asked as to what type of psychos they're hiring)

Or he knew what he was doing was wrong but thought he'd get away with it (and now serious questions should be asked as to what types of policies and procedures will be in place)

Having lived here for 30+ years I have had minimal to almost zero interactions with the police. Any minor interactions have all been positive. I'm sure people of color would have a polar opposite view

Entire swarths of big cities like Chicago, Baltimore, Philly are virtual no go areas and it's almost impossible to police these neighborhoods. I knew a guy who was in the Chicago Housing Authority police......going around the housing projects executing warrants and providing back up during evictions for troublesome tenants. The stories he'd tell you would put your hair standing on end.

Maybe it's time to aggressively hire from the minority communities to police their own neighborhoods instead of it being a job for the white working and middle classEs

Fair play to ye Whitey, that's not far off the mark at all.

The thing with your man with the knee on the neck of George Floyd he was actually going to get away with it scot free (and might still do) until the backlash occurred.
Image how many similar incidents happen and aren't videoed.

At least cops and Karens now know that they might get filmed.

Imagine what it was like in the past! There's a reason so many minority communities have such a toxic relationship with their local police and justice systems.

Will Smith said "Racism is not getting worse; it's getting filmed".
what other minorities have as bad a relationship with police as the black community.

I'm sure some Hispanic communities do.

Why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 25, 2020, 06:18:43 PM
NASCAR reporter for Fox Sports - https://twitter.com/bobpockrass/status/1276194657786003462

QuoteNASCAR says of 1684 garage stalls, only 11 have pulled-down tie rope with a knot & only Wallace's stall was a noose .... NASCAR also confirms that the noose wasn't tied like that in the garage stall at the start of the October 2019 race weekend, that it happened during weekend.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbX0njXXYAA2LFs?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 06:26:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 25, 2020, 06:18:43 PM
NASCAR reporter for Fox Sports - https://twitter.com/bobpockrass/status/1276194657786003462

QuoteNASCAR says of 1684 garage stalls, only 11 have pulled-down tie rope with a knot & only Wallace's stall was a noose .... NASCAR also confirms that the noose wasn't tied like that in the garage stall at the start of the October 2019 race weekend, that it happened during weekend.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbX0njXXYAA2LFs?format=jpg&name=medium)

No way that could be mistaken for a noose.  :o ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2020, 07:00:38 PM
Yes...that is a noose. Pity they didn't release that picture yesterday in conjunction with the FBI Statement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 07:32:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 07:00:38 PM
Yes...that is a noose. Pity they didn't release that picture yesterday in conjunction with the FBI Statement

Why?

The FBI confirmed in their statement that a noose had been found.

The photos circulating yesterday, albeit from a much more distant vantage, showed a noose had been present last October.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: delgany on June 25, 2020, 07:40:38 PM
US Treasury officials sent $1.4 billion of its pandemic rescue funds ,( $2.6 trillion ) to dead people!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2020, 07:45:54 PM
The dead, coming over here, taking our welfare  payments...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 07:52:15 PM
Quote from: delgany on June 25, 2020, 07:40:38 PM
US Treadury officials sent $1.4 billion of its pandemic rescue funds ,( $2.6 trillion ) to dead people!

Assuming the average household got around 2K, that's 700,000!

I think it was all based on tax returns, and given that they extended the deadline this year, and where they hadn't received returns were going to use last year's, I'd imagine quite a few of these are people who died in the past year.

US mortality rate is just under 3 million per year.

Given how fast all of it had to be rolled out, I don't think there was a realistic way of avoiding some level of this.

My auld lad recently received a new credit card from an Irish bank.... more than 15 years after he died!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 25, 2020, 08:03:30 PM
1.1 million people - https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/06/25/irs-stimulus-checks-dead-people-gao/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 06:26:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 25, 2020, 06:18:43 PM
NASCAR reporter for Fox Sports - https://twitter.com/bobpockrass/status/1276194657786003462

QuoteNASCAR says of 1684 garage stalls, only 11 have pulled-down tie rope with a knot & only Wallace's stall was a noose .... NASCAR also confirms that the noose wasn't tied like that in the garage stall at the start of the October 2019 race weekend, that it happened during weekend.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbX0njXXYAA2LFs?format=jpg&name=medium)

No way that could be mistaken for a noose.  :o ::)
Does that mean the confederate flags can fly again at Nascar?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2020, 10:12:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 07:32:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2020, 07:00:38 PM
Yes...that is a noose. Pity they didn't release that picture yesterday in conjunction with the FBI Statement

Why?

The FBI confirmed in their statement that a noose had been found.

The photos circulating yesterday, albeit from a much more distant vantage, showed a noose had been present last October.

The FBI.....based in their recent track record I don't believe a word out of their mouths

Secondly there have been several high profile hoaxes involving nooses, so I'm naturally skeptical when I hear one of these stories




Enter News, Quotes, Companies or Videos

OPINION  UPWARD MOBILITY
Hate Crime Hoaxes Are More Common Than You Think
A political scientist found that fewer than 1 in 3 of 346 such allegations was genuine.

By  Jason L. Riley
June 25, 2019 6:55 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
435
Opinion: Chicago Police Release Jussie Smollett Video
YOU MAY ALSO LIKE

UP NEXT


0:00 / 1:41
Opinion: Chicago Police Release Jussie Smollett Video
Opinion: Chicago Police Release Jussie Smollett Video
Chicago PD has released hours of unseen footage related to the alleged staged attack on "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett on Jan. 29, 2019. Image: AP
When I asked Wilfred Reilly about last week's appointment of a special prosecutor in Chicago to take up the Jussie Smollett case, he was cautiously optimistic. Mr. Reilly is author of a new book, "Hate Crime Hoax," in which he details how the initial publicity for supposed hate crimes tends all but to disappear if the allegations are exposed as fake.

So does the sustained press coverage of Mr. Smollett—the television actor who was accused of staging an attack on himself back in January, only to have all 16 felony counts against him abruptly dropped for reasons that prosecutors have never made clear—represent progress of sorts?

"It's the archetype of a hate crime hoax. It's one of the most flamboyant examples of the genre," said Mr. Reilly, himself a Second City native. An openly gay black man residing in one of the country's most liberal and diverse metropolises is set upon by two white Donald Trump supporters who brandish bleach and a noose while shouting racial and antigay slurs? "It was a situation so extreme and bizarre that I think we would have had to look at how much racial progress the U.S. had actually made had it really occurred." The appointment of a special prosecutor, and the possibility of bringing new charges against Mr. Smollett, is a good sign, Mr. Reilly added, "but will we see the same amount of coverage when the hoax involves a less famous person?"


Mr. Reilly is a professor of political science at Kentucky State University, and his interest in hate crimes dates to his graduate-school days, when he became aware of several widely reported incidents in the vicinity of his hometown that turned out to be fake. In 2012 a popular gay bar in suburban Chicago was destroyed by fire, and the owner cited homophobia as the reason. The same year, black students at the University of Wisconsin-Parkside reported death threats from hate groups and found a noose hanging from a dorm room door. Ultimately, the owner of the bar pleaded guilty to arson and insurance fraud. And a black student at the university fessed up to sending racist threats and planting a noose.

More incidents followed, and Mr. Reilly's skepticism grew. "This phenomenon of fake hate crimes did not appear to be small-scale or regionally based," he writes. A gay pastor in Texas accused a Whole Foods store of selling him a cake with a slur written in icing. The store produced video evidence that the pastor was lying. A white woman in Oregon disfigured her own face with acid and claimed a black man had attacked her. Later, she admitted fabricating the entire story. After signs that read "blacks only" and "whites only" were found at bathroom entrances on the University at Buffalo campus in upstate New York, a black graduate student confessed to posting them.

Mr. Reilly eventually compiled a database of 346 hate-crime allegations and determined that less than a third were genuine. Turning his attention to the hoaxes, he put together a data set of more than 400 confirmed cases of fake allegations that were reported to authorities between 2010 and 2017. He allows that the exact number of false reports is probably unknowable, but what can be said "with absolute confidence is that the actual number of hate crime hoaxes is indisputably large," he writes. "We are not speaking here of just a few bad apples."


The author's bigger concern, and rightly so, is the growing politicization of hate crimes, especially when they are directed at underrepresented groups and regardless of whether they in fact happened. The sad reality is that there is no shortage of individuals and entities with a vested interest in exaggerating racial tensions in the U.S.—from civil-rights organizations to corporate diversity officers to professors of race and gender studies.

These alleged incidents are invariably seized upon by politicians and activists looking to feed a sacrosanct belief among liberals that discrimination and oppression are the main drivers of inequality. "In the mainstream media we hear almost constant talk about scary new forms of racism: 'white privilege,' 'cultural appropriation,' and 'subtle bigotry,' " Mr. Reilly writes, yet "a huge percentage of the horrific hate crimes cited as evidence of contemporary bigotry are fakes."

If "Hate Crime Hoax" merely offered examples to illustrate the extent of this phenomenon—and the book offers nearly 100—it would be providing a much-needed public service. But Mr. Reilly has a larger point to make. The Smollett case isn't an outlier. Increasingly, it's the norm. And the media's relative lack of interest in exposing hoaxes that don't involve famous figures is a big part of the problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 26, 2020, 11:24:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM

Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)
Trump will drift in the betting when the Covid deaths start exploding again in a couple of weeks.

I might throw a couple of hundred quid on him to win then, hoping to lose the bet - I'd gladly pay that for him to be gone anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2020, 12:01:51 AM
He's drifting already. The latest Covid surge is coming cutting across the south and sunbelt states. Won't be good for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 27, 2020, 02:05:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 26, 2020, 11:24:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM

Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)
Trump will drift in the betting when the Covid deaths start exploding again in a couple of weeks.

I might throw a couple of hundred quid on him to win then, hoping to lose the bet - I'd gladly pay that for him to be gone anyway.
put a couple g's on it son
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 27, 2020, 02:27:37 AM
Trump's bestie Putin has been offering bounties to the Taliban to kill US soldiers in Afghanistan. Trump has known this since March.

All while Trump does Putin's bidding on the international stage.

Fairly mad that a US President is acting on behalf of a regime that is offering prize money for killing US soldiers.

From NY Times reporting.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1276684680843218944

"American intelligence officials have concluded that a Russian military intelligence unit secretly offered bounties to Taliban-linked militants for killing coalition forces in Afghanistan — including targeting American troops..."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2020, 05:21:40 PM
Looks like Trump's death count will have to be revised upwards again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 28, 2020, 11:02:32 PM
Robert Reich in the Guardian has come up with a Trump's re-election playbook: a montage of  25 ways he'll lie, steal, cheat and abuse his power (http://"https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/28/donald-trump-re-election-playbook-25-lies-cheats-and-steals")

I like his style and journalism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 01:09:03 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2020, 11:02:32 PM
Robert Reich in the Guardian has come up with a Trump's re-election playbook: a montage of  25 ways he'll lie, steal, cheat and abuse his power (http://"https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/28/donald-trump-re-election-playbook-25-lies-cheats-and-steals")

I like his style and journalism.

Making excuses already

Maybe the Democrats should get their heads out of their holes and address the lawlessness that's sweeping the country
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:24:38 AM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Biden: 4/6
Trump: 7/4 (1.75/1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:41:47 AM
Just in case anyone needs to hear this:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106011541_10222814717937484_5051259130194261745_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=dd7718&_nc_ohc=OmPvgPQhp6cAX__iosp&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1ca4ea5c3c4f8e38b0382619a04d69fd&oe=5F1D1DCF)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 29, 2020, 08:46:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 01:09:03 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2020, 11:02:32 PM
Robert Reich in the Guardian has come up with a Trump's re-election playbook: a montage of  25 ways he'll lie, steal, cheat and abuse his power (http://"https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/28/donald-trump-re-election-playbook-25-lies-cheats-and-steals")

I like his style and journalism.

Making excuses already

Maybe the Democrats should get their heads out of their holes and address the lawlessness that's sweeping the country
That's a reply  straight from the Trump War Room, covered by nr 2  in the re-election playbook.

Use racist fearmongering. Demand "law and order" and describe protesters as "thugs", "lowlife" and "rioters and looters". Describe Covid-19 as "kung-flu". Retweet posts from white supremacists. In your campaign ads, use a symbol associated by Nazis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 10:12:28 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 29, 2020, 08:46:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 01:09:03 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2020, 11:02:32 PM
Robert Reich in the Guardian has come up with a Trump's re-election playbook: a montage of  25 ways he'll lie, steal, cheat and abuse his power (http://"https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/28/donald-trump-re-election-playbook-25-lies-cheats-and-steals")

I like his style and journalism.

Making excuses already

Maybe the Democrats should get their heads out of their holes and address the lawlessness that's sweeping the country
That's a reply  straight from the Trump War Room, covered by nr 2  in the re-election playbook.

Use racist fearmongering. Demand "law and order" and describe protesters as "thugs", "lowlife" and "rioters and looters". Describe Covid-19 as "kung-flu". Retweet posts from white supremacists. In your campaign ads, use a symbol associated by Nazis.

LOL (at your response)

Last weekend a 3 year old was shot dead in Chicago

This weekend a 1 year old and a 10 year old were shot dead.

What words would YOU (or Mr Reich) use to describe the shooters?

317 murders so far this year in Chicago

Keep it up Mayor Lightfoot......you're doing a great job


As for NYC. https://www.google.com/amp/s/newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/06/28/nyc-shootings-june-2020/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 29, 2020, 02:44:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

Where are the ILLEGAL guns coming from, Mexico or Canada?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D

Letting mobs run unchecked through middle class neighborhoods is not a winning strategy IMHO

Private individuals having to use legally held firearms to protect themselves and their properties from mobs of looters and hooligans and crickets from the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D

Letting mobs run unchecked through middle class neighborhoods is not a winning strategy IMHO

Private individuals having to use legally held firearms to protect themselves and their properties from mobs of looters and hooligans and crickets from the Democrats

Is this another Boston-area single event anecdote?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:37:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D

Letting mobs run unchecked through middle class neighborhoods is not a winning strategy IMHO

Private individuals having to use legally held firearms to protect themselves and their properties from mobs of looters and hooligans and crickets from the Democrats

Is this another Boston-area single event anecdote?

Believe what you want

What did you think of the mob pelting the NYPD with bottles over the weekend when they were responding to a shooting?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 29, 2020, 03:57:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D
how much do you think they have donated to republicans or how much have they spent on lobbying this year ? Less than 2 million
The gun store close by me has been the busiest store for the last 3 months here in the liberal Bay Area but I guess it's all right wing nuts buying them . People don't like mobs running wild or talk of defunding police .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 03:57:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:41:47 AM
Just in case anyone needs to hear this:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106011541_10222814717937484_5051259130194261745_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=dd7718&_nc_ohc=OmPvgPQhp6cAX__iosp&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1ca4ea5c3c4f8e38b0382619a04d69fd&oe=5F1D1DCF)
Indeed as I mentioned recently:

Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:21:33 AM

The phrase "black on black crime" is very intriguing.

It's almost like it's been designed by white people for the explicit purpose of portraying blackness as being inherently criminal and degenerate.

We don't ever hear about "white crime" in the US (or anywhere), only "black crime".

I wonder why that is.*

Having white people focus on minority ethnicity and/ or religion as an essential component or explanation of crime is something that many, perhaps most ethnic minority communities experience worldwide. British Muslims experience it. Irish Catholics experienced it. Travellers experience it in Ireland.

But white people never experience their skin colour being trotted out as an explantion for crime. Whiteness is never referred to as an essential component or explanation of crime.

*I don't actually wonder why that is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 04:17:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D
And the NRA are bought and paid for by the Russians.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 03:57:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:41:47 AM
Just in case anyone needs to hear this:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106011541_10222814717937484_5051259130194261745_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=dd7718&_nc_ohc=OmPvgPQhp6cAX__iosp&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1ca4ea5c3c4f8e38b0382619a04d69fd&oe=5F1D1DCF)
Indeed as I mentioned recently:

Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:21:33 AM

The phrase "black on black crime" is very intriguing.

It's almost like it's been designed by white people for the explicit purpose of portraying blackness as being inherently criminal and degenerate.

We don't ever hear about "white crime" in the US (or anywhere), only "black crime".

I wonder why that is.*

Having white people focus on minority ethnicity and/ or religion as an essential component or explanation of crime is something that many, perhaps most ethnic minority communities experience worldwide. British Muslims experience it. Irish Catholics experienced it. Travellers experience it in Ireland.

But white people never experience their skin colour being trotted out as an explantion for crime. Whiteness is never referred to as an essential component or explanation of crime.

*I don't actually wonder why that is.

Lies, damn lies and statistics

https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/08/10/african-american-homicide-rate-nearly-quadruple-national-average-11680

Unfortunately the homicide rate for African Americans is almost quadruple that of the overall population

Comparing "number" of murders by race is completely pointless, because 60% of the population is white whereas 13% of the population is black. It must be looked at in a pro rata basis

But, believe whatever you want


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on June 29, 2020, 04:37:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:41:47 AM
Just in case anyone needs to hear this:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106011541_10222814717937484_5051259130194261745_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=dd7718&_nc_ohc=OmPvgPQhp6cAX__iosp&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1ca4ea5c3c4f8e38b0382619a04d69fd&oe=5F1D1DCF)

so white people have more to fear from other white people than blacks?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 04:54:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 29, 2020, 04:37:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:41:47 AM
Just in case anyone needs to hear this:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106011541_10222814717937484_5051259130194261745_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=dd7718&_nc_ohc=OmPvgPQhp6cAX__iosp&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1ca4ea5c3c4f8e38b0382619a04d69fd&oe=5F1D1DCF)

so white people have more to fear from other white people than blacks?

What he put up is nonsense

Read this:

https://www.law.com/ctlawtribune/2020/01/03/on-covering-murder-and-race-the-media-must-do-better/

. "According to the FBI SHR data, in 2016 there were 7,756 black homicide victims in the United States. The homicide rate among black victims in the United States was 20.44 per 100,000. For that year, the overall national homicide rate was 5.10 per 100,000. For white people, the national homicide rate was 2.96 per 100,000. This means that the rate for white people is less than 15% of that for black people."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 05:00:53 PM
There follows a translation of all whitey's posts: "I hate blacks."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on June 29, 2020, 05:10:58 PM
Would it help if all black men joined the NRA and prominently displayed their NRA sticker on their car or rucksack?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 05:57:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 05:00:53 PM
There follows a translation of all whitey's posts: "I hate blacks."

Facts are facts, but your response should encourage any Trump supporters out there

The "Disagree with us and you're a racist" line is getting kinda boring at this point
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 29, 2020, 05:10:58 PM
Would it help if all black men joined the NRA and prominently displayed their NRA sticker on their car or rucksack?


Not sure what exactly it would "help"

When a cop tells you to do something over here it's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Disobeying a legal order from a law enforcement officer (I believe) is actually considered breaking the law in and of itself.

I know someone....very white,very  well connected and very Republican who got into a tangle with a cop over a noise complaint at her 50th birthday party.  Cop came by 3 times and told her to turn the music  down and she refused. Cop went to but the handcuffs on her and she resisted and kicked a female police officer (who had fallen to the ground in the ensuing scuffle) in the face. She got pepper sprayed and tazed twice in spite of who she was ( A person of color might only have gotten the first warning.....that's where the disparities in policing would come in)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on June 29, 2020, 07:25:05 PM
There is clearly deep generational inequalities within black communities but the causation of greater poverty in black communities, leading to more crime, leading to higher homicide rates is also true.

To me the biggest issue for black communities is the generational catch 22 cycle of people from very poor neighbourhoods having to work 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs to keep a roof over their head and not being able to afford to get their children into a good college and therefore perpetuate the cycle of poverty which has to be somehow addressed.

At the minute Universities giving a couple of scholarship 'how can I be racist I have a black friend' is fairly meaningless to most.  I hope this movement opens up a more general discussion on what can be done to start to address this and other poverty traps and doesn't fizzle out in a few weeks time when a black square is not as fashionable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 29, 2020, 08:33:38 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 29, 2020, 05:10:58 PM
Would it help if all black men joined the NRA and prominently displayed their NRA sticker on their car or rucksack?
help with what ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 11:34:54 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 29, 2020, 07:25:05 PM
There is clearly deep generational inequalities within black communities but the causation of greater poverty in black communities, leading to more crime, leading to higher homicide rates is also true.

To me the biggest issue for black communities is the generational catch 22 cycle of people from very poor neighbourhoods having to work 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs to keep a roof over their head and not being able to afford to get their children into a good college and therefore perpetuate the cycle of poverty which has to be somehow addressed.

At the minute Universities giving a couple of scholarship 'how can I be racist I have a black friend' is fairly meaningless to most.  I hope this movement opens up a more general discussion on what can be done to start to address this and other poverty traps and doesn't fizzle out in a few weeks time when a black square is not as fashionable.
Right-wing politics is an agent of racial inequality and class inequality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 11:36:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 05:57:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 05:00:53 PM
There follows a translation of all whitey's posts: "I hate blacks."

Facts are facts, but your response should encourage any Trump supporters out there

The "Disagree with us and you're a racist" line is getting kinda boring at this point
Your consistent racism is much more boring.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 29, 2020, 11:45:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 11:36:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 05:57:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 05:00:53 PM
There follows a translation of all whitey's posts: "I hate blacks."

Facts are facts, but your response should encourage any Trump supporters out there

The "Disagree with us and you're a racist" line is getting kinda boring at this point
Your consistent racism is much more boring.

Good man Sid....keep it up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 11:51:01 PM
Most people, if called out as racists would reflexively deny it, even if purely out of embarrassment.

whitey actively embraces it.

You can't shame somebody with no shame.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't continue to call them what they are - a dirty, stinking, racist, white supremacist piece of shit.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 30, 2020, 12:01:04 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 29, 2020, 11:51:01 PM
Most people, if called out as racists would reflexively deny it, even if purely out of embarrassment.

whitey actively embraces it.

You can't shame somebody with no shame.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't continue to call them what they are - a dirty, stinking, racist, white supremacist piece of shit.

Lol.....just because you keep repeating it doesn't mean it's true.

Blah blah blah, racism blah blah white supremacy....blah blah blah
Did you know that the Democratic nominee is a racist and an enabler of white supremacists?

Don't believe me?

That's what Kamala Harris implied during the debates.....I guess none of you guys will be able to vote for him now.....too bad

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/07/08/politics/jill-biden-surprised-kamala-harris-debate/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 12:36:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 29, 2020, 05:10:58 PM
Would it help if all black men joined the NRA and prominently displayed their NRA sticker on their car or rucksack?


Not sure what exactly it would "help"

When a cop tells you to do something over here it's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Disobeying a legal order from a law enforcement officer (I believe) is actually considered breaking the law in and of itself.

I know someone....very white,very  well connected and very Republican who got into a tangle with a cop over a noise complaint at her 50th birthday party.  Cop came by 3 times and told her to turn the music  down and she refused. Cop went to but the handcuffs on her and she resisted and kicked a female police officer (who had fallen to the ground in the ensuing scuffle) in the face. She got pepper sprayed and tazed twice in spite of who she was ( A person of color might only have gotten the first warning.....that's where the disparities in policing would come in)

Very white? Like ginger Irish white?

If she had brown eyes he'd have tasered her first then shot her between the eyes, be off for three weeks then would have hot a medal for bravery!

Watched the start of film tonight, black guy gets killed film, shot him twice once in the face, coming out of Walmart, suspicion of theft.

Those cops would have a field day outside Lidil in High street Belfast!
I'd move into the funeral business fairly quickly!

America seems fucked up and that's coming from someone who grew up with seasonal riots, bombings shootings and the rest!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 30, 2020, 12:38:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 12:36:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 29, 2020, 05:10:58 PM
Would it help if all black men joined the NRA and prominently displayed their NRA sticker on their car or rucksack?


Not sure what exactly it would "help"

When a cop tells you to do something over here it's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Disobeying a legal order from a law enforcement officer (I believe) is actually considered breaking the law in and of itself.

I know someone....very white,very  well connected and very Republican who got into a tangle with a cop over a noise complaint at her 50th birthday party.  Cop came by 3 times and told her to turn the music  down and she refused. Cop went to but the handcuffs on her and she resisted and kicked a female police officer (who had fallen to the ground in the ensuing scuffle) in the face. She got pepper sprayed and tazed twice in spite of who she was ( A person of color might only have gotten the first warning.....that's where the disparities in policing would come in)

Very white? Like ginger Irish white?

If she had brown eyes he'd have tasered her first then shot her between the eyes, be off for three weeks then would have hot a medal for bravery!

Watched the start of film tonight, black guy gets killed film, shot him twice once in the face, coming out of Walmart, suspicion of theft.

Those cops would have a field day outside Lidil in High street Belfast!
I'd move into the funeral business fairly quickly!

America seems fucked up and that's coming from someone who grew up with seasonal riots, bombings shootings and the rest!

Trace her family back to the Mayflower white (which has a particular cachè here in England). Ivy League Educated White. Neighbor of Elizabeth Warren white
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 12:49:18 AM
Still, you can't just taser Or pepper spray one person and shot someone for the same thing!

The cop in this show said they are trained to react and take them down, are they trained to react differently to very white mayflower people?

Weird place all the same, what's the percent of black cops on the states? How many black cops have killed unarmed civilians? Just curious
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 30, 2020, 01:26:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 12:49:18 AM
Still, you can't just taser Or pepper spray one person and shot someone for the same thing!

The cop in this show said they are trained to react and take them down, are they trained to react differently to very white mayflower people?

Weird place all the same, what's the percent of black cops on the states? How many black cops have killed unarmed civilians? Just curious

Do you think a person leaving the Royal Yacht Club in Dun Laoighre driving their Mercedes after a couple of G+Ts will be treated the same as a gang of yobs driving a stolen/unregistered car in Tallaght or Blanchardstown?

Every town has its own police force which leads to very unequal application of the law across individual states, never mind the country. If you roll up to a nice house in a wealthy town and there's a bunch of
(generally) law abiding citizens enjoying a party with loud music the expectation is that people will comply with the police


On the other hand, if you're called out to a high crime neighborhood where a lot of shootings, stabbing and robberies occur, now you are playing in a different ballgame. People may be armed with guns or other weapons. An angry and hostile crowd may congregate and interfere with the police doing their job. Spike Lee coined the phrase Chiraq .......that's how violent Chicago is.....you essentially have civilian police in a war zone


Here in Boston a few years ago there was a quadruple homicide which included the execution of a 2 year old boy. Thats the level of savagery the cops are up against on a daily basis. It doesn't excuse the police of wrongdoing, but perhaps it helps explain how easier it is for things can go wrong in such highly charged situations. Cops are truly put in life and death situations every day


https://www.wbur.org/news/2010/10/06/flonory-smith-funeral
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
Any connection between protests and covid rise ? would that be off limits to criticize in current climate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 07:39:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
Any connection between protests and covid rise ? would that be off limits to criticize in current climate

No.  No connection.

Protests did not lead to spike in COVID-19 cases, study finds (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/protests-did-not-lead-to-spike-in-covid-19-cases-study-finds/)

COVID-19 has not surged in cities with big protests, but it has in states that reopened early. Here are some possible reasons. (https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-no-spike-cities-despite-protests-big-surge-in-states-that-reopened-20200627.html)

Black Lives Matter Demonstrations Are Not A Big Factor In Oregon's COVID-19 Spike (https://www.opb.org/news/article/black-lives-matter-demonstrations-covid-19-cases-oregon/)

Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/24/883017035/what-contact-tracing-may-tell-about-cluster-spread-of-the-coronavirus)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on June 30, 2020, 07:53:21 AM
Trump rallies won't be such a feature in 2020 thanks to his mismanagement of the pandemic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 30, 2020, 10:39:16 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 07:39:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
Any connection between protests and covid rise ? would that be off limits to criticize in current climate

No.  No connection.

Protests did not lead to spike in COVID-19 cases, study finds (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/protests-did-not-lead-to-spike-in-covid-19-cases-study-finds/)

COVID-19 has not surged in cities with big protests, but it has in states that reopened early. Here are some possible reasons. (https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-no-spike-cities-despite-protests-big-surge-in-states-that-reopened-20200627.html)

Black Lives Matter Demonstrations Are Not A Big Factor In Oregon's COVID-19 Spike (https://www.opb.org/news/article/black-lives-matter-demonstrations-covid-19-cases-oregon/)

Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/24/883017035/what-contact-tracing-may-tell-about-cluster-spread-of-the-coronavirus)
Amazingly enough those who care most about justice also tend to care most about behaving in a responsible manner while protesting.

The two sort of go together.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 11:16:30 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 07:39:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
Any connection between protests and covid rise ? would that be off limits to criticize in current climate

No.  No connection.

Protests did not lead to spike in COVID-19 cases, study finds (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/protests-did-not-lead-to-spike-in-covid-19-cases-study-finds/)

Whether or not they can show a direct connection. a large number of people publicly giving two fingers to the concept of public health can only have undermined adherence to responsible behaviour. It is like Dominic Cummings, he did not hugely damage public health by his particular action, but he did huge damage by his irresponsible example.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on June 30, 2020, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 30, 2020, 10:39:16 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 07:39:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
Any connection between protests and covid rise ? would that be off limits to criticize in current climate

No.  No connection.

Protests did not lead to spike in COVID-19 cases, study finds (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/protests-did-not-lead-to-spike-in-covid-19-cases-study-finds/)

COVID-19 has not surged in cities with big protests, but it has in states that reopened early. Here are some possible reasons. (https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-no-spike-cities-despite-protests-big-surge-in-states-that-reopened-20200627.html)

Black Lives Matter Demonstrations Are Not A Big Factor In Oregon's COVID-19 Spike (https://www.opb.org/news/article/black-lives-matter-demonstrations-covid-19-cases-oregon/)

Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/24/883017035/what-contact-tracing-may-tell-about-cluster-spread-of-the-coronavirus)
Amazingly enough those who care most about justice also tend to care most about behaving in a responsible manner while protesting.

The two sort of go together.

From the 1000's of videos of protests and subsequent riots (in some instances) it is pretty clear that 'protesting in a responsible manner' was not high up on the agenda of some
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 30, 2020, 02:39:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 11:16:30 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 07:39:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
Any connection between protests and covid rise ? would that be off limits to criticize in current climate

No.  No connection.

Protests did not lead to spike in COVID-19 cases, study finds (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/protests-did-not-lead-to-spike-in-covid-19-cases-study-finds/)

Whether or not they can show a direct connection. a large number of people publicly giving two fingers to the concept of public health can only have undermined adherence to responsible behaviour. It is like Dominic Cummings, he did not hugely damage public health by his particular action, but he did huge damage by his irresponsible example.

This is fantastic news

Completely undermines the Democrats calls for vote (ie cheat) by mail
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 05:36:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2020, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 30, 2020, 10:39:16 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 07:39:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
Any connection between protests and covid rise ? would that be off limits to criticize in current climate

No.  No connection.

Protests did not lead to spike in COVID-19 cases, study finds (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/protests-did-not-lead-to-spike-in-covid-19-cases-study-finds/)

COVID-19 has not surged in cities with big protests, but it has in states that reopened early. Here are some possible reasons. (https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-no-spike-cities-despite-protests-big-surge-in-states-that-reopened-20200627.html)

Black Lives Matter Demonstrations Are Not A Big Factor In Oregon's COVID-19 Spike (https://www.opb.org/news/article/black-lives-matter-demonstrations-covid-19-cases-oregon/)

Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/24/883017035/what-contact-tracing-may-tell-about-cluster-spread-of-the-coronavirus)
Amazingly enough those who care most about justice also tend to care most about behaving in a responsible manner while protesting.

The two sort of go together.

From the 1000's of videos of protests and subsequent riots (in some instances) it is pretty clear that 'protesting in a responsible manner' was not high up on the agenda of some

"Some" meaning the cops, no doubt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 30, 2020, 05:38:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 05:36:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2020, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 30, 2020, 10:39:16 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 07:39:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
Any connection between protests and covid rise ? would that be off limits to criticize in current climate

No.  No connection.

Protests did not lead to spike in COVID-19 cases, study finds (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/protests-did-not-lead-to-spike-in-covid-19-cases-study-finds/)

COVID-19 has not surged in cities with big protests, but it has in states that reopened early. Here are some possible reasons. (https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-no-spike-cities-despite-protests-big-surge-in-states-that-reopened-20200627.html)

Black Lives Matter Demonstrations Are Not A Big Factor In Oregon's COVID-19 Spike (https://www.opb.org/news/article/black-lives-matter-demonstrations-covid-19-cases-oregon/)

Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/24/883017035/what-contact-tracing-may-tell-about-cluster-spread-of-the-coronavirus)
Amazingly enough those who care most about justice also tend to care most about behaving in a responsible manner while protesting.

The two sort of go together.

From the 1000's of videos of protests and subsequent riots (in some instances) it is pretty clear that 'protesting in a responsible manner' was not high up on the agenda of some

"Some" meaning the cops, no doubt.
If the cops stopped murdering, intimidating and rioting, maybe protestors wouldn't protest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 05:59:16 PM
This heartbreaking story just gets worse. Not content with murdering the gentlest soul you could ever meet, they have the gall to gloat about it. How is this any different from the Gestapo?

Quote
Colorado Police Officers Under Investigation For Photos At Elijah McClain Memorial (https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/30/885178533/colorado-police-officers-under-investigation-for-photos-at-elijah-mcclain-memori)
June 30, 202012:09 PM ET

The police department in Aurora, Colo., is investigating several officers who posed for photographs near the site where Elijah McClain was forcibly arrested as he walked home from a convenience store last summer. The site became a memorial to the 23-year-old who died in police custody. He was not suspected of committing any crime.

Interim Chief of Police Vanessa Wilson announced the investigation late Monday night, saying that when she learned about the photos on Thursday, she "immediately ordered Internal Affairs to make this investigation their top priority."

The photos came to light after an Aurora police officer reported them to the department's internal affairs unit. Summarizing that initial report, Wilson said that "multiple Aurora Police officers were depicted in photographs near the site where Elijah McClain died."

Wilson did not provide further details about the officers or the photographs. Reporter Brian Maass of local TV station CBS 4 described the images as showing officers reenacting the carotid restraint hold that was used on McClain.


The police chief released her statement confirming the internal investigation about an hour after Maass tweeted about the photos.

McClain was confronted by police on Aug. 24, after a man who was driving down the same street called 911 and reported a man who looked "sketchy."

At the time, "McClain was walking home from a local convenience store carrying a bottle of iced tea," as NPR's Vanessa Romo has reported. "He was wearing a ski mask and listening to music on the kind of headphones that fit snugly inside the ear."

McClain's family has said he sometimes wore a face mask because he felt cold due to anemia. Police body-cam footage from the encounter shows McClain pleading with the officers, "I was just going home. I don't have a gun. I don't do that stuff. I don't even kill flies. I don't even eat meat."

He is pinned down for several minutes in a carotid hold.

A medic with the Aurora Fire Rescue later injected McClain with ketamine to calm him. McClain was put into an ambulance and suffered cardiac arrest en route to the hospital. He was taken off life support on Aug. 30.

Last week, Colorado Gov. Jared Polis took the rare step of ordering a new investigation into McClain's death, telling Attorney General Phil Weiser to prosecute the case if the facts warrant criminal charges.

The governor acted after millions of people signed a petition calling for an independent look into McClain's death.

"They murdered him. They are bullies with badges," McClain's mother, Sheneen McClain, said of the Aurora police in an interview with CBS News.

In February, the Aurora Police Department cleared the three officers involved in the fatal encounter — Nathan Woodyard, Jason Rosenblatt and Randy Roedema.

Adams County District Attorney Dave Young also declined to file criminal charges, saying that while he might agree with those who say McClain's death was avoidable, he did not believe the evidence and circumstances would support a criminal case.

McClain's death has come under renewed scrutiny in recent weeks, as mass protests have focused public outrage over police killings of Blacks and other minorities.

Chief Wilson said that when the internal investigation into the photos began, the officers involved were switched into "non-enforcement capacities." They are currently on administrative leave with pay.

The internal affairs unit finished its investigation Monday night, Wilson said. She pledged that her department would release all materials related to the inquiry.

"This will include reports, photographic evidence obtained, officer's names, and my final determination which can rise to the level of termination," Wilson said.

The pattern is so predictable it's not even funny.


In cases like George Floyd, conservatives dig into the victim's past to find wrongdoing, implying that the extra-judicial killing was justified. How can they do this in the case of Elijah McClain? He was on the autistic spectrum. He wore a mask to stay warm because of his anemia. He was listening to music and dancing as he walked, which, the last time I checked, was not illegal.

He was not a thug. He was not a criminal. He was an innocent. He would go to the local animal shelter and play the violin to sooth lonely homeless kittens.

His last words were:

(https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/mcclain-final-words.png)

Let's see your ifs, buts, "there must be more to the story" claims, and justification for this, evil Nazis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 09:07:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 07:39:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
Any connection between protests and covid rise ? would that be off limits to criticize in current climate

No.  No connection.

Protests did not lead to spike in COVID-19 cases, study finds (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/protests-did-not-lead-to-spike-in-covid-19-cases-study-finds/)

COVID-19 has not surged in cities with big protests, but it has in states that reopened early. Here are some possible reasons. (https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-no-spike-cities-despite-protests-big-surge-in-states-that-reopened-20200627.html)

Black Lives Matter Demonstrations Are Not A Big Factor In Oregon's COVID-19 Spike (https://www.opb.org/news/article/black-lives-matter-demonstrations-covid-19-cases-oregon/)

Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/24/883017035/what-contact-tracing-may-tell-about-cluster-spread-of-the-coronavirus)
eamon can you meet me at San Francisco later today I have a bridge you might be interested in
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 11:42:40 PM
Show us your evidence, Gmac. The National Enquirer and Fox News don't count.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 01:06:06 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 11:42:40 PM
Show us your evidence, Gmac. The National Enquirer and Fox News don't count.
hundreds of thousands of people protesting and it doesn't cause a spike ?, Austin , Los Angeles spikes started around June 15th, the media are all in on Biden the blm movement and anything anti trump so I really don't believe what they say but you can look it up yourself .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 01:06:06 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 11:42:40 PM
Show us your evidence, Gmac. The National Enquirer and Fox News don't count.
hundreds of thousands of people protesting and it doesn't cause a spike ?, Austin , Los Angeles spikes started around June 15th, the media are all in on Biden the blm movement and anything anti trump so I really don't believe what they say but you can look it up yourself .

Show us your evidence, Gmac. The National Enquirer and Fox News don't count.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 01, 2020, 02:00:28 AM
(https://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/red_blue.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 03:28:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 01, 2020, 02:00:28 AM
(https://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/red_blue.jpg)
states there eamon not cities , Austin a liberal utopia has the highest positivity rate in country Los Angeles running out of icu beds , hog beds of protests
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 01, 2020, 04:09:25 AM
Eamonn, I see that the graph is from Johns Hopkins, but where did you find it in the first place? All the best from Florida, realm of DeInsanity, he who is slow to close and quick to open, like a willing date with syphilis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:35:12 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 01, 2020, 04:09:25 AM
Eamonn, I see that the graph is from Johns Hopkins, but where did you find it in the first place? All the best from Florida, realm of DeInsanity, he who is slow to close and quick to open, like a willing date with syphilis.
3500 deaths with a huge elderly population you are safer there than alot of other places, you got any pet  name for cuomo ? Granny killer ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 01, 2020, 05:40:57 AM
Wasn't expecting you to jump in, Gmac.  All I have is DeSantis's smug boast: "Part of the reason is that because you got a lot of people in your profession who waxed poetically for weeks and weeks about how Florida was going to be just like New York, wait two weeks and Florida's going to be next just like Italy, wait two weeks. Well hell, we're eight weeks away from that and it hasn't happened,"
Well, it has happened. Just about 10,000 new cases a day, and soaring. My son lives in New York, and I'm glad he does because the "granny killer" has managed to bend the curve sharply downward. I, an over 65 yr old with a serious chronic progressive disease, do not feel at all comforted by the inept mismanagement of the Trump-puppet we have as governor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 10:51:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 01:06:06 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 11:42:40 PM
Show us your evidence, Gmac. The National Enquirer and Fox News don't count.
hundreds of thousands of people protesting and it doesn't cause a spike ?, Austin , Los Angeles spikes started around June 15th, the media are all in on Biden the blm movement and anything anti trump so I really don't believe what they say but you can look it up yourself .

We should be seeing these spikes already or soon then in most cities and states where protests took place then, no?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:37:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D

Letting mobs run unchecked through middle class neighborhoods is not a winning strategy IMHO

Private individuals having to use legally held firearms to protect themselves and their properties from mobs of looters and hooligans and crickets from the Democrats

Is this another Boston-area single event anecdote?

Believe what you want

What did you think of the mob pelting the NYPD with bottles over the weekend when they were responding to a shooting?

Its not a matter of believing what I want.

You're the one, as usual, making the bold claims and then complaining when questioned on it.

As for the Harlem incident, I think it was disturbing. I would imagine most people find it disturbing, whether they're reactionary right wingers demanding absolute respect for all police, no matter what, or black residents fed up with the conduct, tactics and strategies of the police in their neighbourhoods.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 11:55:16 AM
Another Q-anon enthusiast makes it through to represent the GOP in the general election, this time in Colorado.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/923019/5term-gop-congressman-endorsed-by-trump-unseated-by-farright-challenger-qanon-sympathies (https://theweek.com/speedreads/923019/5term-gop-congressman-endorsed-by-trump-unseated-by-farright-challenger-qanon-sympathies)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 01, 2020, 12:19:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:37:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D

Letting mobs run unchecked through middle class neighborhoods is not a winning strategy IMHO

Private individuals having to use legally held firearms to protect themselves and their properties from mobs of looters and hooligans and crickets from the Democrats

Is this another Boston-area single event anecdote?

Believe what you want

What did you think of the mob pelting the NYPD with bottles over the weekend when they were responding to a shooting?

Its not a matter of believing what I want.

You're the one, as usual, making the bold claims and then complaining when questioned on it.

As for the Harlem incident, I think it was disturbing. I would imagine most people find it disturbing, whether they're reactionary right wingers demanding absolute respect for all police, no matter what, or black residents fed up with the conduct, tactics and strategies of the police in their neighbourhoods.

A serious breakdown in law and order is developing

A felon with a gun in Boston-cops surrounded by a mob while trying to arrest him

Shooting in NYC-cops pelted with bottles while trying to respond

And now this one from Connecticut-

https://www.fox61.com/mobile/article/news/local/wethersfield-police-release-video-details-to-put-social-media-of-arrest-in-context/520-16aaa331-0556-4c9d-a54f-ea116c092b38?fbclid=IwAR2M6KKUhN95VrlEt7srBBaXj7gZKtFaKYepmFNs1irdaRtC59fUj653698

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 12:48:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 12:19:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:37:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D

Letting mobs run unchecked through middle class neighborhoods is not a winning strategy IMHO

Private individuals having to use legally held firearms to protect themselves and their properties from mobs of looters and hooligans and crickets from the Democrats

Is this another Boston-area single event anecdote?

Believe what you want

What did you think of the mob pelting the NYPD with bottles over the weekend when they were responding to a shooting?

Its not a matter of believing what I want.

You're the one, as usual, making the bold claims and then complaining when questioned on it.

As for the Harlem incident, I think it was disturbing. I would imagine most people find it disturbing, whether they're reactionary right wingers demanding absolute respect for all police, no matter what, or black residents fed up with the conduct, tactics and strategies of the police in their neighbourhoods.

A serious breakdown in law and order is developing

A felon with a gun in Boston-cops surrounded by a mob while trying to arrest him

Shooting in NYC-cops pelted with bottles while trying to respond

And now this one from Connecticut-

https://www.fox61.com/mobile/article/news/local/wethersfield-police-release-video-details-to-put-social-media-of-arrest-in-context/520-16aaa331-0556-4c9d-a54f-ea116c092b38?fbclid=IwAR2M6KKUhN95VrlEt7srBBaXj7gZKtFaKYepmFNs1irdaRtC59fUj653698

Depends how you define "serious breakdown in law and order".

The authorities and community leaders have to get together to sort this stuff out, but its not going to be solved overnight.

At least the cops in CT got that guy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 01, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?

Of course they're "doing their jobs", but are they now backing away from situations where previously they would have attempted an arrest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 01, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 05:59:16 PM
This heartbreaking story just gets worse. Not content with murdering the gentlest soul you could ever meet, they have the gall to gloat about it. How is this any different from the Gestapo?

Quote
Colorado Police Officers Under Investigation For Photos At Elijah McClain Memorial (https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/30/885178533/colorado-police-officers-under-investigation-for-photos-at-elijah-mcclain-memori)
June 30, 202012:09 PM ET

The police department in Aurora, Colo., is investigating several officers who posed for photographs near the site where Elijah McClain was forcibly arrested as he walked home from a convenience store last summer. The site became a memorial to the 23-year-old who died in police custody. He was not suspected of committing any crime.

Interim Chief of Police Vanessa Wilson announced the investigation late Monday night, saying that when she learned about the photos on Thursday, she "immediately ordered Internal Affairs to make this investigation their top priority."

The photos came to light after an Aurora police officer reported them to the department's internal affairs unit. Summarizing that initial report, Wilson said that "multiple Aurora Police officers were depicted in photographs near the site where Elijah McClain died."

Wilson did not provide further details about the officers or the photographs. Reporter Brian Maass of local TV station CBS 4 described the images as showing officers reenacting the carotid restraint hold that was used on McClain.


The police chief released her statement confirming the internal investigation about an hour after Maass tweeted about the photos.

McClain was confronted by police on Aug. 24, after a man who was driving down the same street called 911 and reported a man who looked "sketchy."

At the time, "McClain was walking home from a local convenience store carrying a bottle of iced tea," as NPR's Vanessa Romo has reported. "He was wearing a ski mask and listening to music on the kind of headphones that fit snugly inside the ear."

McClain's family has said he sometimes wore a face mask because he felt cold due to anemia. Police body-cam footage from the encounter shows McClain pleading with the officers, "I was just going home. I don't have a gun. I don't do that stuff. I don't even kill flies. I don't even eat meat."

He is pinned down for several minutes in a carotid hold.

A medic with the Aurora Fire Rescue later injected McClain with ketamine to calm him. McClain was put into an ambulance and suffered cardiac arrest en route to the hospital. He was taken off life support on Aug. 30.

Last week, Colorado Gov. Jared Polis took the rare step of ordering a new investigation into McClain's death, telling Attorney General Phil Weiser to prosecute the case if the facts warrant criminal charges.

The governor acted after millions of people signed a petition calling for an independent look into McClain's death.

"They murdered him. They are bullies with badges," McClain's mother, Sheneen McClain, said of the Aurora police in an interview with CBS News.

In February, the Aurora Police Department cleared the three officers involved in the fatal encounter — Nathan Woodyard, Jason Rosenblatt and Randy Roedema.

Adams County District Attorney Dave Young also declined to file criminal charges, saying that while he might agree with those who say McClain's death was avoidable, he did not believe the evidence and circumstances would support a criminal case.

McClain's death has come under renewed scrutiny in recent weeks, as mass protests have focused public outrage over police killings of Blacks and other minorities.

Chief Wilson said that when the internal investigation into the photos began, the officers involved were switched into "non-enforcement capacities." They are currently on administrative leave with pay.

The internal affairs unit finished its investigation Monday night, Wilson said. She pledged that her department would release all materials related to the inquiry.

"This will include reports, photographic evidence obtained, officer's names, and my final determination which can rise to the level of termination," Wilson said.

The pattern is so predictable it's not even funny.


  • A black man acts slightly different from the norm.

  • A white person gets freaked out and calls the cops.

  • Cops show up and get rough with their victim, who has not done anything illegal, and who has underlying medical conditions.

  • The victim dies.

  • Police investigate themselves and clear their buddies of any wrongdoing.

  • Prosecutors, who have a cozy relationship with police, decline to prosecute despite  glaring evidence that would have seen a private citizen locked up without bail if they had done the same thing.


In cases like George Floyd, conservatives dig into the victim's past to find wrongdoing, implying that the extra-judicial killing was justified. How can they do this in the case of Elijah McClain? He was on the autistic spectrum. He wore a mask to stay warm because of his anemia. He was listening to music and dancing as he walked, which, the last time I checked, was not illegal.

He was not a thug. He was not a criminal. He was an innocent. He would go to the local animal shelter and play the violin to sooth lonely homeless kittens.

His last words were:

(https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/mcclain-final-words.png)

Let's see your ifs, buts, "there must be more to the story" claims, and justification for this, evil Nazis.

So a guy wearing a balaclava (in August)  fails to compl with a lawful order,, resists  arrest and attempts to take an officers gun (twice I believe), but the cops are at fault....eh......okay

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:33:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?

Of course they're "doing their jobs", but are they now backing away from situations where previously they would have attempted an arrest
unfortunately a lot  cops just want to survive long enough to get their pension and are using a hands off approach to policing, staying away from potential trouble as much as they can .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 01, 2020, 04:39:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:33:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?

Of course they're "doing their jobs", but are they now backing away from situations where previously they would have attempted an arrest
unfortunately a lot  cops just want to survive long enough to get their pension and are using a hands off approach to policing, staying away from potential trouble as much as they can .

I'm going away for a few of days over the Fourth. with 2 other families. One of the guys is a detective....should be interesting to hear his take
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 04:43:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?

Of course they're "doing their jobs", but are they now backing away from situations where previously they would have attempted an arrest

I don't know. Are they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:01:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .
Eamonn will have to cancel his vacation plans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: APM on July 01, 2020, 05:22:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 05:59:16 PM
This heartbreaking story just gets worse. Not content with murdering the gentlest soul you could ever meet, they have the gall to gloat about it. How is this any different from the Gestapo?

Quote
Colorado Police Officers Under Investigation For Photos At Elijah McClain Memorial (https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/30/885178533/colorado-police-officers-under-investigation-for-photos-at-elijah-mcclain-memori)
June 30, 202012:09 PM ET

The police department in Aurora, Colo., is investigating several officers who posed for photographs near the site where Elijah McClain was forcibly arrested as he walked home from a convenience store last summer. The site became a memorial to the 23-year-old who died in police custody. He was not suspected of committing any crime.

Interim Chief of Police Vanessa Wilson announced the investigation late Monday night, saying that when she learned about the photos on Thursday, she "immediately ordered Internal Affairs to make this investigation their top priority."

The photos came to light after an Aurora police officer reported them to the department's internal affairs unit. Summarizing that initial report, Wilson said that "multiple Aurora Police officers were depicted in photographs near the site where Elijah McClain died."

Wilson did not provide further details about the officers or the photographs. Reporter Brian Maass of local TV station CBS 4 described the images as showing officers reenacting the carotid restraint hold that was used on McClain.

The police chief released her statement confirming the internal investigation about an hour after Maass tweeted about the photos.

McClain was confronted by police on Aug. 24, after a man who was driving down the same street called 911 and reported a man who looked "sketchy."

At the time, "McClain was walking home from a local convenience store carrying a bottle of iced tea," as NPR's Vanessa Romo has reported. "He was wearing a ski mask and listening to music on the kind of headphones that fit snugly inside the ear."

McClain's family has said he sometimes wore a face mask because he felt cold due to anemia. Police body-cam footage from the encounter shows McClain pleading with the officers, "I was just going home. I don't have a gun. I don't do that stuff. I don't even kill flies. I don't even eat meat."

He is pinned down for several minutes in a carotid hold.

A medic with the Aurora Fire Rescue later injected McClain with ketamine to calm him. McClain was put into an ambulance and suffered cardiac arrest en route to the hospital. He was taken off life support on Aug. 30.

Last week, Colorado Gov. Jared Polis took the rare step of ordering a new investigation into McClain's death, telling Attorney General Phil Weiser to prosecute the case if the facts warrant criminal charges.

The governor acted after millions of people signed a petition calling for an independent look into McClain's death.

"They murdered him. They are bullies with badges," McClain's mother, Sheneen McClain, said of the Aurora police in an interview with CBS News.

In February, the Aurora Police Department cleared the three officers involved in the fatal encounter — Nathan Woodyard, Jason Rosenblatt and Randy Roedema.

Adams County District Attorney Dave Young also declined to file criminal charges, saying that while he might agree with those who say McClain's death was avoidable, he did not believe the evidence and circumstances would support a criminal case.

McClain's death has come under renewed scrutiny in recent weeks, as mass protests have focused public outrage over police killings of Blacks and other minorities.

Chief Wilson said that when the internal investigation into the photos began, the officers involved were switched into "non-enforcement capacities." They are currently on administrative leave with pay.

The internal affairs unit finished its investigation Monday night, Wilson said. She pledged that her department would release all materials related to the inquiry.

"This will include reports, photographic evidence obtained, officer's names, and my final determination which can rise to the level of termination," Wilson said.

The pattern is so predictable it's not even funny.


  • A black man acts slightly different from the norm.

  • A white person gets freaked out and calls the cops.

  • Cops show up and get rough with their victim, who has not done anything illegal, and who has underlying medical conditions.

  • The victim dies.

  • Police investigate themselves and clear their buddies of any wrongdoing.

  • Prosecutors, who have a cozy relationship with police, decline to prosecute despite  glaring evidence that would have seen a private citizen locked up without bail if they had done the same thing.


In cases like George Floyd, conservatives dig into the victim's past to find wrongdoing, implying that the extra-judicial killing was justified. How can they do this in the case of Elijah McClain? He was on the autistic spectrum. He wore a mask to stay warm because of his anemia. He was listening to music and dancing as he walked, which, the last time I checked, was not illegal.

He was not a thug. He was not a criminal. He was an innocent. He would go to the local animal shelter and play the violin to sooth lonely homeless kittens.

His last words were:

(https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/mcclain-final-words.png)

Let's see your ifs, buts, "there must be more to the story" claims, and justification for this, evil Nazis.

So a guy wearing a balaclava (in August)  fails to compl with a lawful order,, resists  arrest and attempts to take an officers gun (twice I believe), but the cops are at fault....eh......okay



I have never posted on this topic before, but I've read your contributions and it is infuriating reading your whataboutery and support for authoritarian style policing.  However, it takes a special type of person to post this.  Why are you making comments like those above.  You weren't there, you don't know what happened. All you really know that it ended in the death of a young black man.   The claim made about reaching for the gun was made by the police officers under investigation.  You appear to place absolute trust in their account.

History in Ireland (Garda, Maurice McCabe, RUC etc) shows that you cannot rely exclusively on the word of policemen and that they must be held properly to account.  Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Corruption exists in police forces all over the world and the George Floyd incident caught on camera, the type of bullying disregard that exists within USA policing for fellow USA citizens.

Some of the behaviour of the police in the USA reminds me of this:
https://twitter.com/DonalLyons/status/915965306740314112

Maybe if you found yourself on the wrong side of this authoritarian style policing you wouldn't be so forgiving.  It might be a good thing if you knew what it was like to be stopped for being different or being in the wrong part of town, and questioned or searched without any good reason.  It might do no harm if you were told to give respect to a police officer who is barking instructions at you and giving you no respect in return and assuming you are a gun wielding criminal. I think you might change your mind if you spent 15 minutes under the knee of an armed and aggressive policeman for little or no reason. 

Open your eyes and your mind and show a bit of empathy.  That means seeing everyone as equals and fellow citizens with the same rights.  What we are currently seeing in the USA is no different to the kind of prejudice, aggression and authoritarianism that we seen in the video above. We all know that worse happened here when there were no cameras on police officers.

Any Irish person should know what becomes of this type of policing and should remember how those of a unionist persuasion would vigorously defend the police officers behaviour (just like you) because they seen the police as being on their side.  Little wonder when apparatus of the state, including the police, was partisan and didn't respect everyones' equal citizenship and civil rights. 

The USA is no different.  People should not die in those circumstances in police custody.  Those who blithely accept the account of the police when a US citizen dies in those circumstances clearly isn't that concerned about the right to life of their fellow citizens.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2020, 07:17:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PMIf someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

Of course you would.  ::)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?
isn't there one in New York now,  you should go down and join .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?
isn't there one in New York now,  you should go down and join .

I haven't heard of any CHAZ/CHOP zones in NYC (there are people protesting at City Hall though).

But I expect right wing media is giving you minute-by-minute updates on the mushrooming threat to American society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2020, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?


Aren't the homeless people in San Francisco being given free hotel rooms and heroin? That'll do it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 01, 2020, 08:47:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?
isn't there one in New York now,  you should go down and join .

I haven't heard of any CHAZ/CHOP zones in NYC (there are people protesting at City Hall though).

But I expect right wing media is giving you minute-by-minute updates on the mushrooming threat to American society.

That's right....they were the defund the police mob

Now the NYPD has been defunded of $1B they're still protesting

AOC even said that $1B wasn't enough-FFS

I actually feel bad for you J70 with the likes of AOC and DeBlasio/Wilhelm representing you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 08:56:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 08:47:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?
isn't there one in New York now,  you should go down and join .

I haven't heard of any CHAZ/CHOP zones in NYC (there are people protesting at City Hall though).

But I expect right wing media is giving you minute-by-minute updates on the mushrooming threat to American society.

That's right....they were the defund the police mob

Now the NYPD has been defunded of $1B they're still protesting

AOC even said that $1B wasn't enough-FFS

I actually feel bad for you J70 with the likes of AOC and DeBlasio representing you

Don't.

Bad as they are, they're a damn sight better and more sane than what passes for conservative representation these days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 09:07:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2020, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?


Aren't the homeless people in San Francisco being given free hotel rooms and heroin? That'll do it.
hotel rooms and weed anyway ,where did newsom do yesterday's presss conference outside ?and what was he bragging about .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on July 01, 2020, 09:39:54 PM
Are there any Black people in those vigilante groups 'protecting' mayoral residences and what not? I would love to see half a dozen black people knocking about with AK47s to see what sort of reception they get.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 09:46:15 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 01, 2020, 09:39:54 PM
Are there any Black people in those vigilante groups 'protecting' mayoral residences and what not? I would love to see half a dozen black people knocking about with AK47s to see what sort of reception they get.
they should have showed up to protect their communities in Minneapolis etc when mobs came to burn them down .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on July 01, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 09:46:15 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 01, 2020, 09:39:54 PM
Are there any Black people in those vigilante groups 'protecting' mayoral residences and what not? I would love to see half a dozen black people knocking about with AK47s to see what sort of reception they get.
they should have showed up to protect their communities in Minneapolis etc when mobs came to burn them down .
Captures the Zeitgeist perfectly there Gmac
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2020, 11:38:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 09:07:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 01, 2020, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?


Aren't the homeless people in San Francisco being given free hotel rooms and heroin? That'll do it.
hotel rooms and weed anyway ,where did newsom do yesterday's presss conference outside ?and what was he bragging about .

Is that English?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 02, 2020, 12:32:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 03:28:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 01, 2020, 02:00:28 AM
(https://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/red_blue.jpg)
states there eamon not cities , Austin a liberal utopia has the highest positivity rate in country Los Angeles running out of icu beds , hog beds of protests

If Austin were representative of Texas, Texas would be a blue state.

Next.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 02, 2020, 12:34:24 AM
Would the people responding to Whitey please remove his quotes from your replies? I have him on ignore for a reason. I don't want to read his Nazi filth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 02, 2020, 12:53:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 02, 2020, 12:32:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 03:28:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 01, 2020, 02:00:28 AM
(https://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/red_blue.jpg)
states there eamon not cities , Austin a liberal utopia has the highest positivity rate in country Los Angeles running out of icu beds , hog beds of protests

If Austin were representative of Texas, Texas would be a blue state.

Next.
just not in covid terms
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on July 02, 2020, 02:19:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 02, 2020, 12:53:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 02, 2020, 12:32:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 03:28:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 01, 2020, 02:00:28 AM
(https://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/red_blue.jpg)
states there eamon not cities , Austin a liberal utopia has the highest positivity rate in country Los Angeles running out of icu beds , hog beds of protests

If Austin were representative of Texas, Texas would be a blue state.

Next.
just not in covid terms
State governer rules, Austin is not an autonomous entity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 02, 2020, 12:07:21 PM
And hasn't the governor of Texas been very forceful is preventing local, stricter, controls?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: APM on July 02, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

He was told to stop and stand still but he didn't. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-were-shouts-for-him-to-stop-stand-still-he-didn-t-1.3402021

I have no doubt that when this happened, there were plenty of people saying "why was he running if he had nothing to hide"!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: APM on July 02, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

He was told to stop and stand still but he didn't. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-were-shouts-for-him-to-stop-stand-still-he-didn-t-1.3402021

I have no doubt that when this happened, there were plenty of people saying "why was he running if he had nothing to hide"!!

Apples and oranges

You are required (regardless of race) to comply with a lawful command from a police officer....end of

It's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Here's a direct quote form the DA


"Ultimately, while I may share the vast public opinion that Elijah McClain's death could have been avoided, it is not my role to file criminal charges based on opinion, but, rather, on the evidence revealed from the investigation and applicable Colorado law," Young, the distinct attorney for the 17th Judicial District, wrote in the statement."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: APM on July 02, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

He was told to stop and stand still but he didn't. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-were-shouts-for-him-to-stop-stand-still-he-didn-t-1.3402021

I have no doubt that when this happened, there were plenty of people saying "why was he running if he had nothing to hide"!!

Apples and oranges

You are required (regardless of race) to comply with a lawful command from a police officer....end of

It's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Ireland, north and south, compliance with police requests/orders was/is optional?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: APM on July 02, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

He was told to stop and stand still but he didn't. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-were-shouts-for-him-to-stop-stand-still-he-didn-t-1.3402021

I have no doubt that when this happened, there were plenty of people saying "why was he running if he had nothing to hide"!!

Apples and oranges

You are required (regardless of race) to comply with a lawful command from a police officer....end of

It's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Ireland, north and south, compliance with police requests/orders was/is optional?

Yes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: APM on July 02, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

He was told to stop and stand still but he didn't. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-were-shouts-for-him-to-stop-stand-still-he-didn-t-1.3402021

I have no doubt that when this happened, there were plenty of people saying "why was he running if he had nothing to hide"!!

Apples and oranges

You are required (regardless of race) to comply with a lawful command from a police officer....end of

It's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Ireland, north and south, compliance with police requests/orders was/is optional?

Yes

There are statutes, case law and so on making this clear?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 02, 2020, 02:18:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: APM on July 02, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

He was told to stop and stand still but he didn't. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-were-shouts-for-him-to-stop-stand-still-he-didn-t-1.3402021

I have no doubt that when this happened, there were plenty of people saying "why was he running if he had nothing to hide"!!

Apples and oranges

You are required (regardless of race) to comply with a lawful command from a police officer....end of

It's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Ireland, north and south, compliance with police requests/orders was/is optional?

Yes

There are statutes, case law and so on making this clear?

It was a tongue in cheek comment based on what happens in practice  but I may actually be correct

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/questioning_and_surveillance.html

Where a Garda is investigating a criminal offence, the Garda is entitled to seek the co-operation of anyone by asking the person questions about what they saw or heard. However, while the Gardaí are entitled to question members of the public, there is generally no legal obligation to answer any such questions or to co-operate with the Gardaí.

What is the definition of "cooperate". So my reading of that is that you wouldn't  have to stop if requested to by the Garda

Edit

An example of this would be where a Garda observes you acting suspiciously late at night in an area where a lot of crimes are being committed. The Garda is entitled to stop you in order to detect and prevent crime. You are under no legal obligation to co-operate with the Garda and the Garda cannot use force to restrain your freedom under common law, short of arresting you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on July 02, 2020, 02:21:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 02:18:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: APM on July 02, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

He was told to stop and stand still but he didn't. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-were-shouts-for-him-to-stop-stand-still-he-didn-t-1.3402021

I have no doubt that when this happened, there were plenty of people saying "why was he running if he had nothing to hide"!!

Apples and oranges

You are required (regardless of race) to comply with a lawful command from a police officer....end of

It's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Ireland, north and south, compliance with police requests/orders was/is optional?

Yes

There are statutes, case law and so on making this clear?

It was a tongue in cheek comment based on what happens in practice  but I may actually be correct

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/questioning_and_surveillance.html

Where a Garda is investigating a criminal offence, the Garda is entitled to seek the co-operation of anyone by asking the person questions about what they saw or heard. However, while the Gardaí are entitled to question members of the public, there is generally no legal obligation to answer any such questions or to co-operate with the Gardaí.

What is the definition of "cooperate". So my reading of that is that you wouldn't  have to stop if requested to by the Garda

The right to remain silent?

I'd say if you took to your heels the Guards may give chase rather than pull out the old gun and riddle you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 03, 2020, 01:41:01 AM
Rachel was smiling last night at the thought of how bad the jobs report would be today, another disaster for Moscow Maddow why does she roof against the country so much .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 03, 2020, 01:45:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 03, 2020, 01:41:01 AM
Rachel was smiling last night at the thought of how bad the jobs report would be today, another disaster for Moscow Maddow why does she roof against the country so much .

I'm guessing this shocking development for all that is decent and right is keeping the Putin bounties out of the headlines over there in the fever swamps.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 03, 2020, 02:06:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2020, 01:45:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 03, 2020, 01:41:01 AM
Rachel was smiling last night at the thought of how bad the jobs report would be today, another disaster for Moscow Maddow why does she roof against the country so much .

I'm guessing this shocking development for all that is decent and right is keeping the Putin bounties out of the headlines over there in the fever swamps.
no doubt she's rooting for that story to be true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 03, 2020, 03:05:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 03, 2020, 02:06:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2020, 01:45:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 03, 2020, 01:41:01 AM
Rachel was smiling last night at the thought of how bad the jobs report would be today, another disaster for Moscow Maddow why does she roof against the country so much .

I'm guessing this shocking development for all that is decent and right is keeping the Putin bounties out of the headlines over there in the fever swamps.
no doubt she's rooting for that story to be true

She probably cares more about those soldiers than the Dear Leader.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 03, 2020, 06:55:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: APM on July 02, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

He was told to stop and stand still but he didn't. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-were-shouts-for-him-to-stop-stand-still-he-didn-t-1.3402021

I have no doubt that when this happened, there were plenty of people saying "why was he running if he had nothing to hide"!!

Apples and oranges

You are required (regardless of race) to comply with a lawful command from a police officer....end of

It's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Ireland, north and south, compliance with police requests/orders was/is optional?

Yes

May have been optional in your Mayo. But in my South Armagh it could have got you killed... now you and that person from Queen's County need to go and reflect on the corruption of the regime that you spend your lives defending. Go reflect on the unnecessary deaths that you are ignoring while you get indignant about Police Officers who don't get the fact that they have two ears and one mouth. All they have to do is listen!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 03, 2020, 11:03:13 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 03, 2020, 06:55:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2020, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 02, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: APM on July 02, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PM
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

He was told to stop and stand still but he didn't. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-were-shouts-for-him-to-stop-stand-still-he-didn-t-1.3402021

I have no doubt that when this happened, there were plenty of people saying "why was he running if he had nothing to hide"!!

Apples and oranges

You are required (regardless of race) to comply with a lawful command from a police officer....end of

It's not a suggestion like it is in Ireland

Ireland, north and south, compliance with police requests/orders was/is optional?

Yes

May have been optional in your Mayo. But in my South Armagh it could have got you killed... now you and that person from Queen's County need to go and reflect on the corruption of the regime that you spend your lives defending. Go reflect on the unnecessary deaths that you are ignoring while you get indignant about Police Officers who don't get the fact that they have two ears and one mouth. All they have to do is listen!

I have never said, nor do I believe that the police are without blame  and that serious reform arent needed.....far from it. But narrative being spun by the media which seems to have been swallowed hook, line and sinker by some posters on here is that, the go to position is the police are always  at fault and that the injured party is always an innocent victim. You and I both know that's a bunch of nonsense. Cops have a very, very difficult job especially in the inner cities and can face life and death scenarios in a regular basis. It's very easy to Monday morning quarterback them from your couch

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: APM on July 03, 2020, 03:21:26 PM
You read this:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 05:59:16 PM
(https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/mcclain-final-words.png)

.... and then you post this:

Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
So a guy wearing a balaclava (in August)  fails to compl with a lawful order,, resists  arrest and attempts to take an officers gun (twice I believe), but the cops are at fault....eh......okay

Then you say this:

Quote from: whitey on July 03, 2020, 11:03:13 AM
I have never said, nor do I believe that the police are without blame  and that serious reform aren't needed.....far from it. But narrative being spun by the media which seems to have been swallowed hook, line and sinker by some posters on here is that, the go to position is the police are always  at fault and that the injured party is always an innocent victim. You and I both know that's a bunch of nonsense. Cops have a very, very difficult job especially in the inner cities and can face life and death scenarios in a regular basis. It's very easy to Monday morning quarterback them from your couch

Your immediate response is to defend bad policing.  If you don't think the police are without blame, then why does that not form part of your initial response - why can you not say so without equivocation.  If you think serious reforms are needed, why not say so immediately instead of trying to defend the indefensible. 

What you have done here is similar to what happened during the troubles when the RUC or army committed a wrong. 

Let's take for example, the findings of the Bloody Sunday inquiry. Unionist politicians barely admit that the army were in the wrong. Oft-times there was no recognition of a wrong being committed:
QuoteThey shouldn't have been on the street.  It was an illegal gathering.  They started it!

Even where there is some recognition of a wrong committed by the authorities it is mealy mouthed:
Quoteof course we should recognise the hurt.... but one bad apple etc etc

This is then often followed by a much more lengthy and stout defence of the authorities i.e.
Quotewe shouldn't forget that the British Army / RUC defended this country through 30 years of strife, the difficult job they had to do. Many good soldiers and police were killed.

What they fail to recognise is that this kind of behavior and moreover, official defence of bad behaviour, contributes to the sense of alienation of a whole demographic.  Bad policing is bad for everyone, including the police and should be tackled head on.  There is no excusing it.  The state always has to apply a higher set of values, because it should have the high-moral ground.  The minute it loses the high-moral ground, then trust is gone.  Attitudes like yours simply enables bad policing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 03, 2020, 04:13:23 PM
APM-what state did you live in?

If you were walking down the street at night in the middle of August wearing a balaclava would you expect to be stopped by the police if they had received a call from a concerned citizen reporting you?

If you were stopped by the police, would you actually answer whatever questions they had to clear things up and then go on your way, or would you continue walking while saying they shouldn't be stopping you, thereby refusing to comply with a lawful order?

And if they decided they were going to cuff you, would you then violently resist to the point That 4 of them need all their strength to subdue you and then attempt to grab the officers gun for good measure?


That's all there on the tape



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2020, 06:02:05 PM
Four hairy arse grown police Officers couldn't detain a autistic kid? Could they not have just used the taser,  get him on ground and move on?

No, let's just kill him and justify it with he'd his hand in his pocket or he was going for a gun or whatever way they've been trained to shout to cover their ass's.

The terminology used by police when they attempt to arrest someone seems as if they are readying themselves in case there is an incident
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: APM on July 03, 2020, 06:52:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 03, 2020, 04:13:23 PM
APM-what state did you live in?

If you were walking down the street at night in the middle of August wearing a balaclava would you expect to be stopped by the police if they had received a call from a concerned citizen reporting you?

If you were stopped by the police, would you actually answer whatever questions they had to clear things up and then go on your way, or would you continue walking while saying they shouldn't be stopping you, thereby refusing to comply with a lawful order?

And if they decided they were going to cuff you, would you then violently resist to the point That 4 of them need all their strength to subdue you and then attempt to grab the officers gun for good measure?

That's all there on the tape

You do not need to know where someone lives, to know right from wrong. 
This isn't a case of "nobody died".  Somebody did die. 
Your view of this problem is very similar to the type of thing we seen in the six counties.

People couldn't objectively say, "that shouldn't have happened"!!  There always had to be a "but"

But his father was a republican!
But he was in the RUC and yesterday they done X
But he shouldn't have been on the street
But someone in the crowd shot first
But they were throwing stones
But he shouldn't have ran away
But he shouldn't have been wearing a hood
But the police are under so much pressure


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2020, 07:17:38 PM
That list could go on and on!

Killing someone that's unarmed (Guns knives or other dangerous weapons aside) is unacceptable.

Watched a film doc the other day, focused on a cop being called to Walmart on suspicion of someone stealing a pair of shoes at 7.30am.

Cop shot him in the face and chest, over a pair of shoes?! That was his second killing of an unarmed civilian.

Would you be bothered?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: APM on July 03, 2020, 07:56:25 PM
Unreal
Some of these cops must think they are Rooster Cogburn!

The problem is where the norm is set.  What is acceptable?  It's no wonder that people are apologists for it when the Norm is what we would consider to be off the Richter Scale.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 03, 2020, 08:13:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2020, 06:02:05 PM
Four hairy arse grown police Officers couldn't detain a autistic kid? Could they not have just used the taser,  get him on ground and move on?

No, let's just kill him and justify it with he'd his hand in his pocket or he was going for a gun or whatever way they've been trained to shout to cover their ass's.

The terminology used by police when they attempt to arrest someone seems as if they are readying themselves in case there is an incident

Now that's exactly the type of Monday morning quarterbacking I'm talking about

How in Gods green earth would the cops know the guy was autistic. They might not even have known he was black until he was subdued

Secondly, from what I've been told, cops assume that everyone is armed with a firearm. That's why their reactions may seem extreme or over the top to someone from a country where police don't make that assumption.

Thirdly, and this is something else unique to American policing....these guys are trained in chokeholds. A normal person won't have an adverse reaction to a choke hold but very occasionally some people do if they're on drugs or have an underlying condition .....and that's why they're getting banned in some states.

(On an aside My kids took MMA and the instructors put people in chokeholds almost every class. There was one kid who weighed about 7 stone and if he got on your back it was lights out, no matter how big you were)

So the DA investigated and found no criminal wrongdoing

I think it's been re opened, so let's see what the new investigation finds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2020, 08:25:18 PM
Could a 7 stone kid choke hold four officers? Chuck f**king Norris couldn't do that ffs!

Your heads away, why not, just taser him? Why shoot them or choke them out? Are officers trained to not shot and kill people?

This one film there was 1400 police killings, 44 officers lost their lives also, none of it is right. I would literally shit my togs if the police pulled a gun on me, it's not natural and will never be 'ordinary' the fight or flight kicks in, it's natural thing the body does when confronted with something that their mind feels they are in a dangerous moment.

In that particular year, only 6 officers were convicted over these murders, with the maximum sentence being 2 1/2 years!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 12:41:27 AM
Nobody gave 2 fucks about Mount Rushmore a few weeks ago now The rent a mob and cnn are all over it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 04, 2020, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 12:41:27 AM
Nobody gave 2 fucks about Mount Rushmore a few weeks ago now The rent a mob and cnn are all over it .
Calm down, it's only a rockface.

Well, to the whites it was that anyway.

To the Lakota nation it was actually sacred ground, and a f**king Klansman went in and ruined it.

It was like if the white Australians had gone to Uluru and carved out the faces of Captain Cook, Ned Kelly, Crocodile Dundee and Rupert Murdoch.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 03:42:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 04, 2020, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 12:41:27 AM
Nobody gave 2 fucks about Mount Rushmore a few weeks ago now The rent a mob and cnn are all over it .
Calm down, it's only a rockface.

Well, to the whites it was that anyway.

To the Lakota nation it was actually sacred ground, and a f**king Klansman went in and ruined it.

It was like if the white Australians had gone to Uluru and carved out the faces of Captain Cook, Ned Kelly, Crocodile Dundee and Rupert Murdoch.
oh  the Lakota who stole it off Cheyenne who stole it off the Kiowa only one theft matters though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 04, 2020, 04:00:12 AM
These are the scumbags whitey is defending

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/aurora-police-officers-fired-photo-incident-reenacting-chokehold-elijah-mcclain_n_5eff8de3c5b6ca97091e5351



Maybe he'll have a few anecdotes from his detective buddy this weekend to change the subject again  ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 04, 2020, 10:21:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 03:42:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 04, 2020, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 12:41:27 AM
Nobody gave 2 fucks about Mount Rushmore a few weeks ago now The rent a mob and cnn are all over it .
Calm down, it's only a rockface.

Well, to the whites it was that anyway.

To the Lakota nation it was actually sacred ground, and a f**king Klansman went in and ruined it.

It was like if the white Australians had gone to Uluru and carved out the faces of Captain Cook, Ned Kelly, Crocodile Dundee and Rupert Murdoch.
oh  the Lakota who stole it off Cheyenne who stole it off the Kiowa only one theft matters though.
Funny how the supposed "law and order" people never see a problem with genocide committed by whites.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on July 04, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 03:42:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 04, 2020, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 12:41:27 AM
Nobody gave 2 fucks about Mount Rushmore a few weeks ago now The rent a mob and cnn are all over it .
Calm down, it's only a rockface.

Well, to the whites it was that anyway.

To the Lakota nation it was actually sacred ground, and a f**king Klansman went in and ruined it.

It was like if the white Australians had gone to Uluru and carved out the faces of Captain Cook, Ned Kelly, Crocodile Dundee and Rupert Murdoch.
oh  the Lakota who stole it off Cheyenne who stole it off the Kiowa only one theft matters though.
Except the US Government in a Treaty in 1868 agreed that the Lakota would keep the Black Hills forever.
Forever lasted 8 years till US citizens discovered (illegally ) that there was gold there.
They then fckd the Lakota out to mainly useless lands and turned them into poverty stricken dependents on US Government handouts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 04, 2020, 12:15:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 03:42:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 04, 2020, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 12:41:27 AM
Nobody gave 2 fucks about Mount Rushmore a few weeks ago now The rent a mob and cnn are all over it .
Calm down, it's only a rockface.

Well, to the whites it was that anyway.

To the Lakota nation it was actually sacred ground, and a f**king Klansman went in and ruined it.

It was like if the white Australians had gone to Uluru and carved out the faces of Captain Cook, Ned Kelly, Crocodile Dundee and Rupert Murdoch.
oh  the Lakota who stole it off Cheyenne who stole it off the Kiowa only one theft matters though.

By your logic, the British have nothing to be ashamed about for what they've inflicted on Ireland over the past 900 years. Our various chieftains were fighting each other left, right and centre, and wasn't the original incursion by the Normans at the behest of the king of Leinster? What have we been bitching and moaning about for all this time? ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 04:50:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 04, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 03:42:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 04, 2020, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 04, 2020, 12:41:27 AM
Nobody gave 2 fucks about Mount Rushmore a few weeks ago now The rent a mob and cnn are all over it .
Calm down, it's only a rockface.

Well, to the whites it was that anyway.

To the Lakota nation it was actually sacred ground, and a f**king Klansman went in and ruined it.

It was like if the white Australians had gone to Uluru and carved out the faces of Captain Cook, Ned Kelly, Crocodile Dundee and Rupert Murdoch.
oh  the Lakota who stole it off Cheyenne who stole it off the Kiowa only one theft matters though.
Except the US Government in a Treaty in 1868 agreed that the Lakota would keep the Black Hills forever.
Forever lasted 8 years till US citizens discovered (illegally ) that there was gold there.
They then fckd the Lakota out to mainly useless lands and turned them into poverty stricken dependents on US Government handouts.
happy 4th of July 🇺🇸
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 04, 2020, 05:34:04 PM
Apparently the Trump supporters were shouting "go back to where you came from" at the Lakota protesters at Mt Rushmore in the Black Hills. :o ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on July 04, 2020, 05:45:11 PM
Well American Indians are a class of Russian as they came from Siberia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on July 05, 2020, 09:16:58 AM
Why does cancel culture want to remove a monument which prominently features the president who fought to end slavery?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on July 05, 2020, 09:58:48 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2020, 09:16:58 AM
Why does cancel culture want to remove a monument which prominently features the president who fought to end slavery?

Maybe because he consistently promised to never end slavery.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 05, 2020, 12:34:47 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2020, 09:16:58 AM
Why does cancel culture want to remove a monument which prominently features the president who fought to end slavery?

Is the issue not that it was built on sacred land stolen from the Sioux? An issue that still has not been settled more than 150 years later.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 06, 2020, 03:28:15 PM
In case any liberal-leaning people are worried that his minders will finally get through to Trump and convince him to ease off on the divisive rhetoric and grievance in advance of the election as his numbers continue to sink... well they haven't got anywhere yet.

Bubba Wallace and the NASCAR noose issue have caught the Dear Leader's attention (must have been a piece on OAN or Fox or something)

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1280117571874951170 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1280117571874951170)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 06, 2020, 03:48:56 PM
He was angry at Fox yesterday -almost certainly it was OAN or Newsmax
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 06, 2020, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 06, 2020, 03:48:56 PM
He was angry at Fox yesterday -almost certainly it was OAN or Newsmax

Over a poll, I'm guessing?

Their poll operations actually seem to be fairly serious and respectable.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/)

Click on 538 Grade to sort the pollsters by grade, and Fox News/Beacon/Shaw is near the top with an A- rating and more than 70% of races correctly called.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 08, 2020, 06:44:56 PM
QuoteBiden His Time: Joe Now The Odds-On Favorite Over Donald Trump In Election Betting Markets (https://www.thelines.com/election-odds-donald-trump-joe-biden-poll-2020-betting/)

Posted By Chops on July 7, 2020

In late January, Joe Biden's presidential campaign was dead in the water. He had no momentum. No buzz. That all belonged to Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg.

Biden's campaign was even more dead in February. Fourth and fifth place finishes in Iowa and New Hampshire, respectively, will do that to you.

Then in March, South Carolina happened.

Today, Joe Biden is the overwhelming 2020 presidential election odds favorite.

Biden is 77 years old. We can't call him "kid." So maybe he's the "Comeback Grandpa?"

This kind of rise is historic. As we've written previously, no candidate has ever finished outside the top 2 in Iowa AND New Hampshire and gone on to win his or her party's nomination.

Not only is Biden winning his nomination, he appears on track to trounce President Donald Trump in the November general election.

JOE BIDEN 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION ODDS
Biden is now priced as the odds-on favorite on most sites. You can find him listed from -137 to -170.

Trump is now around +150. He has not been an underdog like this throughout the entire election lifecycle.

How did we get here?

This isn't complicated. Trump's disapproval marks are at all-time highs. Many believe that he has mishandled the COVID-19 crisis. The economic downturn that resulted because of COVID-19 has obviously not helped matters and more recently there was great racial tension in the US.

If you need a more basic and visual representation of how the tides have turned on Trump, look no further than the Drudge Report front page. Once very pro-Trump, the immensely popular conservative site is now a bulletin board of negative takes on The Donald.

The "elect-ability" argument has really proven to be true for Biden. He's viewed as a perfectly vanilla candidate. In an election cycle dominated by its partisanship, Biden is just inoffensive enough to appeal to voters who are burned out on acrimony.

CAN TRUMP TURN THE TIDE?
From a historical polling perspective, Biden could actually be a heavier favorite among oddsmakers.

We don't know how COVID-19 will yet impact party conventions — but we should expect the typical bounce to be more muted. For a candidate who elicits strong emotions like Trump, this doesn't help his dwindling re-election chances.

Ultimately, Trump's best hope now is if COVID-19 infection numbers reduce and the economy recovers. Otherwise, Biden's lead is becoming too much to overcome.

2020 US ELECTION ODDS (AS OF TUESDAY, JULY 7)




Candidatebet365 oddsBetway odds
Joe Biden (D)-170-152
Donald Trump (R)+150+130


Remember, betting markets only care about the final outcome. They're not crude polls. They take into account all the voter suppression, electoral college, and various shennanigans that Rethuglicans get up to to hold onto power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 08, 2020, 06:49:11 PM
Biden's now afraid to debate Trump apparently. No surprise to anyone who has watched him struggle to deliver even a prepared script let alone speak off the cuff. His "lead" will crumble to dust once more people see him afraid of Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 08, 2020, 07:53:08 PM
Quote from: five points on July 08, 2020, 06:49:11 PM
Biden's now afraid to debate Trump apparently. No surprise to anyone who has watched him struggle to deliver even a prepared script let alone speak off the cuff. His "lead" will crumble to dust once more people see him afraid of Trump.

says who?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 08, 2020, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 08, 2020, 07:53:08 PM
Quote from: five points on July 08, 2020, 06:49:11 PM
Biden's now afraid to debate Trump apparently. No surprise to anyone who has watched him struggle to deliver even a prepared script let alone speak off the cuff. His "lead" will crumble to dust once more people see him afraid of Trump.

says who?
five points
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 08, 2020, 08:46:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 08, 2020, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 08, 2020, 07:53:08 PM
Quote from: five points on July 08, 2020, 06:49:11 PM
Biden's now afraid to debate Trump apparently. No surprise to anyone who has watched him struggle to deliver even a prepared script let alone speak off the cuff. His "lead" will crumble to dust once more people see him afraid of Trump.

says who?
five points

The NY Times
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 08, 2020, 10:21:43 PM
Biden campaign commits to three debates, rejects Trump team's call for more as 'distraction' (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/06/23/biden-campaign-commits-three-debates/3240938001/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 08, 2020, 10:30:03 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/opinion/biden-trump-debate.html#click=https://t.co/knMAaOsGCg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 08, 2020, 10:40:54 PM
Yeah - I'm not seeing anything about him being afraid at all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 08, 2020, 10:51:01 PM
Fox News watchers come out with the weirdest sh1t.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 09, 2020, 12:52:06 AM
Quote from: five points on July 08, 2020, 06:49:11 PM
Biden's now afraid to debate Trump apparently. No surprise to anyone who has watched him struggle to deliver even a prepared script let alone speak off the cuff. His "lead" will crumble to dust once more people see him afraid of Trump.

Let's be honest that's Trump in any debate he took part in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 09, 2020, 01:10:53 AM
If I were Biden, I would probably refuse to debate Trump. With a lead, Biden has the advantage and in a debate will spend all his time struggling to correct Trump's lies and will get little chance to relay his own message. Instead, he should simply rely on tv spots.  Not an original thought, but can't recall where I read it, probably NYT.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on July 09, 2020, 01:23:32 AM
You can't debate with an outright liar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 02:06:32 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 09, 2020, 01:10:53 AM
If I were Biden, I would probably refuse to debate Trump. With a lead, Biden has the advantage and in a debate will spend all his time struggling to correct Trump's lies and will get little chance to relay his own message. Instead, he should simply rely on tv spots.  Not an original thought, but can't recall where I read it, probably NYT.

Joe has nothing to gain by debating Trump

Surprisingly enough, Trump did quite well against Hillary 4 years ago

I think he'd wipe the floor with Joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on July 09, 2020, 03:11:21 AM
A   NYT opinion columnist wrote that Biden shouldn't debate Trump unless certain conditions were satisfied.

How does that translate to Biden being afraid to debate Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 09, 2020, 03:16:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 02:06:32 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 09, 2020, 01:10:53 AM
If I were Biden, I would probably refuse to debate Trump. With a lead, Biden has the advantage and in a debate will spend all his time struggling to correct Trump’s lies and will get little chance to relay his own message. Instead, he should simply rely on tv spots.  Not an original thought, but can’t recall where I read it, probably NYT.

Joe has nothing to gain by debating Trump

Surprisingly enough, Trump did quite well against Hillary 4 years ago

I think he’d wipe the floor with Joe

How by saying he's not a not a puppet again, repeatedly saying wrong to anything Joe says or trying to put him off with loads of sniffing and slurring?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 09, 2020, 06:28:59 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 09, 2020, 03:16:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 02:06:32 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 09, 2020, 01:10:53 AM
If I were Biden, I would probably refuse to debate Trump. With a lead, Biden has the advantage and in a debate will spend all his time struggling to correct Trump's lies and will get little chance to relay his own message. Instead, he should simply rely on tv spots.  Not an original thought, but can't recall where I read it, probably NYT.

Joe has nothing to gain by debating Trump

Surprisingly enough, Trump did quite well against Hillary 4 years ago

I think he'd wipe the floor with Joe

How by saying he's not a not a puppet again, repeatedly saying wrong to anything Joe says or trying to put him off with loads of sniffing and slurring?

Yes Whitey .. Trump will triumph.. without a mask and lots of lies... Are you really serious....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 08:37:29 AM
Quote from: omochain on July 09, 2020, 06:28:59 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 09, 2020, 03:16:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 02:06:32 AM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 09, 2020, 01:10:53 AM
If I were Biden, I would probably refuse to debate Trump. With a lead, Biden has the advantage and in a debate will spend all his time struggling to correct Trump's lies and will get little chance to relay his own message. Instead, he should simply rely on tv spots.  Not an original thought, but can't recall where I read it, probably NYT.

Joe has nothing to gain by debating Trump

Surprisingly enough, Trump did quite well against Hillary 4 years ago

I think he'd wipe the floor with Joe

How by saying he's not a not a puppet again, repeatedly saying wrong to anything Joe says or trying to put him off with loads of sniffing and slurring?

Yes Whitey .. Trump will triumph.. without a mask and lots of lies... Are you really serious....

100 % serious. He more than held his own against a super debater in Hillary Clinton in all 3 debates 4 years ago


But in reality the debates have turned into a circus. 

Look at the break out Harris had by telling bare faced lies about Biden during the Democratic debates and got lauded for it by the media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 08:41:02 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on July 09, 2020, 03:11:21 AM
A   NYT opinion columnist wrote that Biden shouldn't debate Trump unless certain conditions were satisfied.

How does that translate to Biden being afraid to debate Trump?

Lol.....the NYT is most likely putting out some feelers being fed to them by Bidens campaign.

Float it, see what the response is, build it into some polls, and go from there

Oldest trick in the book
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on July 09, 2020, 08:45:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 09, 2020, 01:23:32 AM
You can't debate with an outright liar.
"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 09, 2020, 10:34:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 08:37:29 AM
But in reality the debates have turned into a circus. 

Correct. They aren't debates.


Is anything substantial about policy ever debated? As far as I see, they are merely a chance to sling as much shite at the opponent as possible and see what sticks.


I wouldn't "debate" with Trump if I were in Biden's position. He'll just lie and shout his way through what would become a debacle - he'll also not wear a mask which would undermine his own medics' advice on the coronavirus and him in the same room without a mask compromises Biden's position on that subject. If you could guarantee microphone cut outs when each person is talking, so that cutting across cannot happen, it might be worthwhile. Maybe even do it across two separate studios.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on July 09, 2020, 03:11:21 AM
A   NYT opinion columnist wrote that Biden shouldn't debate Trump unless certain conditions were satisfied.

How does that translate to Biden being afraid to debate Trump?

It doesn't.

And Biden will stick to the script and do fine, at least to the extent that facts and not bluster and bullshit matter.

The debates, spectacle aside, have long since ceased to matter anyway, as long as you present a semi-coherent, non-insane version of yourself. Especially this year when it is solely a referendum on  Trump and his competence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 09, 2020, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM

It doesn't.

And Biden will stick to the script and do fine, at least to the extent that facts and not bluster and bullshit matter.

The debates, spectacle aside, have long since ceased to matter anyway, as long as you present a semi-coherent, non-insane version of yourself. Especially this year when it is solely a referendum on  Trump and his competence.

There, in one word, is Biden's problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on July 09, 2020, 12:40:38 PM
Could Kanye win in 2024?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: five points on July 09, 2020, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM

It doesn't.

And Biden will stick to the script and do fine, at least to the extent that facts and not bluster and bullshit matter.

The debates, spectacle aside, have long since ceased to matter anyway, as long as you present a semi-coherent, non-insane version of yourself. Especially this year when it is solely a referendum on  Trump and his competence.

There, in one word, is Biden's problem.

I would have thought it would be more Trump's actually.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 09, 2020, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: five points on July 09, 2020, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM

It doesn't.

And Biden will stick to the script and do fine, at least to the extent that facts and not bluster and bullshit matter.

The debates, spectacle aside, have long since ceased to matter anyway, as long as you present a semi-coherent, non-insane version of yourself. Especially this year when it is solely a referendum on  Trump and his competence.

There, in one word, is Biden's problem.

I would have thought it would be more Trump's actually.

Trump can at least read a script or deliver a speech. Meanwhile: https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1281050934794059776
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 01:54:53 PM
Quote from: five points on July 09, 2020, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: five points on July 09, 2020, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM

It doesn't.

And Biden will stick to the script and do fine, at least to the extent that facts and not bluster and bullshit matter.

The debates, spectacle aside, have long since ceased to matter anyway, as long as you present a semi-coherent, non-insane version of yourself. Especially this year when it is solely a referendum on  Trump and his competence.

There, in one word, is Biden's problem.

I would have thought it would be more Trump's actually.

Trump can at least read a script or deliver a speech. Meanwhile: https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1281050934794059776

They will both be rehearsed and scripted to death for the debates.

And for every Biden video, we could post plenty of Trump "stream of consciousness" too, starting with his recent Hannity "interview".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 01:55:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: five points on July 09, 2020, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM

It doesn't.

And Biden will stick to the script and do fine, at least to the extent that facts and not bluster and bullshit matter.

The debates, spectacle aside, have long since ceased to matter anyway, as long as you present a semi-coherent, non-insane version of yourself. Especially this year when it is solely a referendum on  Trump and his competence.

There, in one word, is Biden's problem.

I would have thought it would be more Trump's actually.

J70-you must not be watching TV these days

Joe is now about 50 times more incoherent that Trump on his worst day
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 02:01:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 01:55:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: five points on July 09, 2020, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM

It doesn't.

And Biden will stick to the script and do fine, at least to the extent that facts and not bluster and bullshit matter.

The debates, spectacle aside, have long since ceased to matter anyway, as long as you present a semi-coherent, non-insane version of yourself. Especially this year when it is solely a referendum on  Trump and his competence.

There, in one word, is Biden's problem.

I would have thought it would be more Trump's actually.

J70-you must not be watching TV these days

Joe is now about 50 times more incoherent that Trump on his worst day

I'll take your word for it.

Don't think it will  make much difference when it comes to the debates though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Mayor of New York using public funds to paint black lives matter outside trump tower while he defunds the police and the murder rate has gone up 150% and I read a stat that the last 100 murders were all black or Hispanic people the people he is supposedly trying to protect , liberalism is a mental disorder was never more true .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 03:00:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Mayor of New York using public funds to paint black lives matter outside trump tower while he defunds the police and the murder rate has gone up 150% and I read a stat that the last 100 murders were all black or Hispanic people the people he is supposedly trying to protect , liberalism is a mental disorder was never more true .

There's an old saying....be careful what you wish for

Luckily I live in a small town and the funding of the police is decided by the taxpayers at the annual town meeting. I'm sure we may miss out on some federal grants but we can easily make up the shortfall ourselves
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 03:34:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Mayor of New York using public funds to paint black lives matter outside trump tower while he defunds the police and the murder rate has gone up 150% and I read a stat that the last 100 murders were all black or Hispanic people the people he is supposedly trying to protect , liberalism is a mental disorder was never more true .

If your Michael Savage quote is true, you're doing a piss-poor job, day in and day out, of proving that here.

Do you have any specific criticisms of DeBlasio's budgets cuts, including those for the police and across the board in the city?

How much will the BLM painting cost?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 03:34:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Mayor of New York using public funds to paint black lives matter outside trump tower while he defunds the police and the murder rate has gone up 150% and I read a stat that the last 100 murders were all black or Hispanic people the people he is supposedly trying to protect , liberalism is a mental disorder was never more true .

If your Michael Savage quote is true, you're doing a piss-poor job, day in and day out, of proving that here.

Do you have any specific criticisms of DeBlasio's budgets cuts, including those for the police and across the board in the city?

How much will the BLM painting cost?

J70....as a taxpayer are you not incensed that the Mayor is wasting time and money on frivolous bvllshit instead of addressing the real issues facing the city. What exactly is he hoping to accomplish by this stunt....and that's exactly what it is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:01:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 03:34:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Mayor of New York using public funds to paint black lives matter outside trump tower while he defunds the police and the murder rate has gone up 150% and I read a stat that the last 100 murders were all black or Hispanic people the people he is supposedly trying to protect , liberalism is a mental disorder was never more true .

If your Michael Savage quote is true, you're doing a piss-poor job, day in and day out, of proving that here.

Do you have any specific criticisms of DeBlasio's budgets cuts, including those for the police and across the board in the city?

How much will the BLM painting cost?

J70....as a taxpayer are you not incensed that the Mayor is wasting time and money on frivolous bvllshit instead of addressing the real issues facing the city. What exactly is he hoping to accomplish by this stunt....and that's exactly what it is

It's a stunt, no question. But, I think it is perfectly fine for the city to show support for BLM in this way. Its not exactly going to break the budget throwing down a bit of paint on the street. And, if they are going to do it, why not do it in front of the home of the bigoted president of the country?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 09, 2020, 04:07:48 PM
Well - the SDNY will be able to get their hands on his tax returns. SCOTUS voted 7-2 in favour of that - including Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

He won't be a happy man today. You hate to see it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on July 09, 2020, 04:30:09 PM
Best lock up all black people.
Then the Gmacs of the world will feel perfectly safe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:32:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 09, 2020, 04:30:09 PM
Best lock up all black people.
Then the Gmacs of the world will feel perfectly safe.

Eh.....most of the crime committed by black people is against other black people not against white people, so aim sure he feels perfectly safe already

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:34:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:32:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 09, 2020, 04:30:09 PM
Best lock up all black people.
Then the Gmacs of the world will feel perfectly safe.

Eh.....most of the crime committed by black people is against other black people not against white people, so aim sure he feels perfectly safe already

Well he should have nothing to worry about if this new law is passed then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:42:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 09, 2020, 04:30:09 PM
Best lock up all black people.
Then the Gmacs of the world will feel perfectly safe.
maybe I'll move to Roscommon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:44:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?
its none of his business why didn't he call the cops ? she is the clown who would probably vote for the law .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 04:48:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

Wasn't it in San Francisco where some white person called the cops on a black guy opening up his coffee stand in the morning? They told the cops he was breaking into it. The guy, a father, was opening up his own business, literally minding his own business, when a pair of cops showed up with hands on their guns asking what he was doing. I don't expect a Fox News viewer to have any kind of empathy, but I would imagine that would be a moment of stark terror for a black person who would think, rightly, that their life could be about to come to an abrupt end.

Then there's the family that was moving their luggage out of an Air BnB at the end of their vacation only to have the cops called on them by a white person who decided that a burglary was in progress!

Then there's the black student who dozed off for a nap while in college and had the cops called on her for god knows what reason.

Damn right it should be at least a misdemeanor to call the cops on a person of color without good cause. If you're so terrified of black people that to you it looks like everything they do, no matter how innocuous, looks "suspicious," then they need protection from you, not the other way around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:49:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:44:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?
its none of his business why didn't he call the cops ? she is the clown who would probably vote for the law .

It WAS his business. He was there birdwatching.

There are signs up everywhere in The Ramble that dogs need to be leashed.

The location is one of the prime bird-watching areas in NYC.

As for HIM calling the cops, do you really think this is what cops should be involved in?

And this is only ONE example of idiots calling the cops on black people for no reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 04:54:10 PM
Most hispanic murder victims are killed by other hispanics.

Most white murder victims are killed by other whites.

Most black murder victims are killed by other blacks.

Most Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate in communities, murderers tend to kill people within said communities. But we never hear about "white on white" crime. We never hear about "white on white" violence. We only ever hear about "black on black" crime. To conservatives, only when blacks commit crime does race come into it as a factor or underlying cause. This is why white people are consistently described as "troubled" or "mentally ill" when they go shooting up a church, or cinema, or school, or commit any other type of crime. But when a black person commits a crime, conservatives can only see their race.

And they have the gall to use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse.

The racism at the heart of modern conservatism is as sure a sign as any that it is a sick and twisted ideology that must be defeated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:55:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 04:48:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

Wasn't it in San Francisco where some white person called the cops on a black guy opening up his coffee stand in the morning? They told the cops he was breaking into it. The guy, a father, was opening up his own business, literally minding his own business, when a pair of cops showed up with hands on their guns asking what he was doing. I don't expect a Fox News viewer to have any kind of empathy, but I would imagine that would be a moment of stark terror for a black person who would think, rightly, that their life could be about to come to an abrupt end.

Then there's the family that was moving their luggage out of an Air BnB at the end of their vacation only to have the cops called on them by a white person who decided that a burglary was in progress!

Then there's the black student who dozed off for a nap while in college and had the cops called on her for god knows what reason.

Damn right it should be at least a misdemeanor to call the cops on a person of color without good cause. If you're so terrified of black people that to you it looks like everything they do, no matter how innocuous, looks "suspicious," then they need protection from you, not the other way around.

That's about the height of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 04:48:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

Wasn't it in San Francisco where some white person called the cops on a black guy opening up his coffee stand in the morning? They told the cops he was breaking into it. The guy, a father, was opening up his own business, literally minding his own business, when a pair of cops showed up with hands on their guns asking what he was doing. I don't expect a Fox News viewer to have any kind of empathy, but I would imagine that would be a moment of stark terror for a black person who would think, rightly, that their life could be about to come to an abrupt end.

Then there's the family that was moving their luggage out of an Air BnB at the end of their vacation only to have the cops called on them by a white person who decided that a burglary was in progress!

Then there's the black student who dozed off for a nap while in college and had the cops called on her for god knows what reason.

Damn right it should be at least a misdemeanor to call the cops on a person of color without good cause. If you're so terrified of black people that to you it looks like everything they do, no matter how innocuous, looks "suspicious," then they need protection from you, not the other way around.
all these are publicized but do you not think people call the cops on white , Asian , Hispanics for no reason all the time ? what do you think the % of 911 calls on black people are legit ?  Wait until the crime happens to call 911 is a great policy until you are at receiving end . If you feel in danger no matter who the person is you should be able to call the police without fear of being charged with a crime .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 09, 2020, 05:01:53 PM
If I see unexplained activity in my elderly and vulnerable neighbour's house at a very strange time of night, I will of course call the cops if I think they are being burgled or attacked. And if it turned out only to a relative or a doctor or some other emergency service, so what? Better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on July 09, 2020, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: five points on July 09, 2020, 05:01:53 PM
If I see unexplained activity in my elderly and vulnerable neighbour's house at a very strange time of night, I will of course call the cops if I think they are being burgled or attacked. And if it turned out only to a relative or a doctor or some other emergency service, so what? Better safe than sorry.

That should always be the case in any event - anyone arguing otherwise has a different agenda
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 05:09:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 04:54:10 PM
Most hispanic murder victims are killed by other hispanics.

Most white murder victims are killed by other whites.

Most black murder victims are killed by other blacks.

Most Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate in communities, murderers tend to kill people within said communities. But we never hear about "white on white" crime. We never hear about "white on white" violence. We only ever hear about "black on black" crime. To conservatives, only when blacks commit crime does race come into it as a factor or underlying cause. This is why white people are consistently described as "troubled" or "mentally ill" when they go shooting up a church, or cinema, or school, or commit any other type of crime. But when a black person commits a crime, conservatives can only see their race.

And they have the gall to use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse.

The racism at the heart of modern conservatism is as sure a sign as any that it is a sick and twisted ideology that must be defeated.


Homicide rate for blacks in 2016 was approx 8 times that of whites.  (22.8/100,00 VERSUS 2.9/100,000)

And you think that's okay?

Interesting

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 04:48:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

Wasn't it in San Francisco where some white person called the cops on a black guy opening up his coffee stand in the morning? They told the cops he was breaking into it. The guy, a father, was opening up his own business, literally minding his own business, when a pair of cops showed up with hands on their guns asking what he was doing. I don't expect a Fox News viewer to have any kind of empathy, but I would imagine that would be a moment of stark terror for a black person who would think, rightly, that their life could be about to come to an abrupt end.

Then there's the family that was moving their luggage out of an Air BnB at the end of their vacation only to have the cops called on them by a white person who decided that a burglary was in progress!

Then there's the black student who dozed off for a nap while in college and had the cops called on her for god knows what reason.

Damn right it should be at least a misdemeanor to call the cops on a person of color without good cause. If you're so terrified of black people that to you it looks like everything they do, no matter how innocuous, looks "suspicious," then they need protection from you, not the other way around.
all these are publicized but do you not think people call the cops on white , Asian , Hispanics for no reason all the time ? what do you think the % of 911 calls on black people are legit ?  Wait until the crime happens to call 911 is a great policy until you are at receiving end . If you feel in danger no matter who the person is you should be able to call the police without fear of being charged with a crime .

So black people should just have to live with the consequences of people being afraid of and unnerved by their presence merely on account of their skin colour?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?

Eg They advocate defunding the police, yet THEY themselves live in towns with next to zero crime.

They support candidates who are against vouchers and charter schools, yet send their own children to very expensive fee paying schools (with a few token kids of color thrown in to make they feel good about themselves)

They push for all types of laws to "level" the playing field, yet lawyer up big time when it comes to putting affordable housing in their own neighborhoods. Here in metro Boston it's a fvckin joke.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .

You'll have to provide a source for violent rioters and looters being released without charge.

And you must be a very sensitive, paranoid type if you think a man asking you to obey park rules for your dog in a birdwatching area is hassle worth calling the cops for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:21:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?

Eg They advocate defunding the police, yet THEY themselves live in towns with next to zero crime.

They support candidates who are against vouchers and charter schools, yet send their own children to very expensive fee paying schools (with a few token kids of color thrown in to make they feel good about themselves)

They push for all types of laws to "level" the playing field, yet lawyer up big time when it comes to putting affordable housing in their own neighborhoods. Here in metro Boston it's a fvckin joke.

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing racism and calling the cops on black people for living while black?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:21:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?

Eg They advocate defunding the police, yet THEY themselves live in towns with next to zero crime.

They support candidates who are against vouchers and charter schools, yet send their own children to very expensive fee paying schools (with a few token kids of color thrown in to make they feel good about themselves)

They push for all types of laws to "level" the playing field, yet lawyer up big time when it comes to putting affordable housing in their own neighborhoods. Here in metro Boston it's a fvckin joke.

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing racism and calling the cops on black people for living while black?

Here's what I said


As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .

You'll have to provide a source for violent rioters and looters being released without charge.

And you must be a very sensitive, paranoid type if you think a man asking you to obey park rules for your dog in a birdwatching area is hassle worth calling the cops for.
nypd have pulled their officers out of da offices in lots of boroughs because they won't charge rioters , keep you head in the sand .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:25:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:21:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?

Eg They advocate defunding the police, yet THEY themselves live in towns with next to zero crime.

They support candidates who are against vouchers and charter schools, yet send their own children to very expensive fee paying schools (with a few token kids of color thrown in to make they feel good about themselves)

They push for all types of laws to "level" the playing field, yet lawyer up big time when it comes to putting affordable housing in their own neighborhoods. Here in metro Boston it's a fvckin joke.

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing racism and calling the cops on black people for living while black?

Here's what I said


As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .

You'll have to provide a source for violent rioters and looters being released without charge.

And you must be a very sensitive, paranoid type if you think a man asking you to obey park rules for your dog in a birdwatching area is hassle worth calling the cops for.
nypd have pulled their officers out of da offices in lots of boroughs because they won't charge rioters , keep you head in the sand .

Maybe YOU should pay less attention to the right wing fever swamps.

The decision was not to prosecute curfew violations and minor stuff. NOT violent rioting and looting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:36:29 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 09, 2020, 04:07:48 PM
Well - the SDNY will be able to get their hands on his tax returns. SCOTUS voted 7-2 in favour of that - including Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

He won't be a happy man today. You hate to see it.

Poor Donny. ;D

I see they denied Congress though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:43:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .

You'll have to provide a source for violent rioters and looters being released without charge.

And you must be a very sensitive, paranoid type if you think a man asking you to obey park rules for your dog in a birdwatching area is hassle worth calling the cops for.
nypd have pulled their officers out of da offices in lots of boroughs because they won't charge rioters , keep you head in the sand .

Maybe YOU should pay less attention to the right wing fever swamps.

The decision was not to prosecute curfew violations and minor stuff. NOT violent rioting and looting.
release the looters charge the person calling police because she's being hassled, that's all there is to know about society when these lunatics take over .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 06:24:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 04:48:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

Wasn't it in San Francisco where some white person called the cops on a black guy opening up his coffee stand in the morning? They told the cops he was breaking into it. The guy, a father, was opening up his own business, literally minding his own business, when a pair of cops showed up with hands on their guns asking what he was doing. I don't expect a Fox News viewer to have any kind of empathy, but I would imagine that would be a moment of stark terror for a black person who would think, rightly, that their life could be about to come to an abrupt end.

Then there's the family that was moving their luggage out of an Air BnB at the end of their vacation only to have the cops called on them by a white person who decided that a burglary was in progress!

Then there's the black student who dozed off for a nap while in college and had the cops called on her for god knows what reason.

Damn right it should be at least a misdemeanor to call the cops on a person of color without good cause. If you're so terrified of black people that to you it looks like everything they do, no matter how innocuous, looks "suspicious," then they need protection from you, not the other way around.
all these are publicized but do you not think people call the cops on white , Asian , Hispanics for no reason all the time ? what do you think the % of 911 calls on black people are legit ? Wait until the crime happens to call 911 is a great policy until you are at receiving end . If you feel in danger no matter who the person is you should be able to call the police without fear of being charged with a crime .

Typical unsophisticated, black-and-white, terrified, paranoid conservative thinking.

No room for nuance, no gray areas, and no common sense. Always with you people it's all-or-nothing. Either wait to be shot before calling the cops, or call the cops on sighting of a black person. The concept of stopping for a split second to ask yourself the question "if a white person were doing the same thing would I even think about calling the cops?" just does not enter your conservative mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 06:25:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 04:48:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

Wasn't it in San Francisco where some white person called the cops on a black guy opening up his coffee stand in the morning? They told the cops he was breaking into it. The guy, a father, was opening up his own business, literally minding his own business, when a pair of cops showed up with hands on their guns asking what he was doing. I don't expect a Fox News viewer to have any kind of empathy, but I would imagine that would be a moment of stark terror for a black person who would think, rightly, that their life could be about to come to an abrupt end.

Then there's the family that was moving their luggage out of an Air BnB at the end of their vacation only to have the cops called on them by a white person who decided that a burglary was in progress!

Then there's the black student who dozed off for a nap while in college and had the cops called on her for god knows what reason.

Damn right it should be at least a misdemeanor to call the cops on a person of color without good cause. If you're so terrified of black people that to you it looks like everything they do, no matter how innocuous, looks "suspicious," then they need protection from you, not the other way around.
all these are publicized but do you not think people call the cops on white , Asian , Hispanics for no reason all the time ? what do you think the % of 911 calls on black people are legit ?  Wait until the crime happens to call 911 is a great policy until you are at receiving end . If you feel in danger no matter who the person is you should be able to call the police without fear of being charged with a crime .

So black people should just have to live with the consequences of people being afraid of and unnerved by their presence merely on account of their skin colour?

Seems that way. Black people have to keep paying with their lives in order to make conservatives feel safe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:43:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .

You'll have to provide a source for violent rioters and looters being released without charge.

And you must be a very sensitive, paranoid type if you think a man asking you to obey park rules for your dog in a birdwatching area is hassle worth calling the cops for.
nypd have pulled their officers out of da offices in lots of boroughs because they won't charge rioters , keep you head in the sand .

Maybe YOU should pay less attention to the right wing fever swamps.

The decision was not to prosecute curfew violations and minor stuff. NOT violent rioting and looting.
release the looters charge the person calling police because she's being hassled, that's all there is to know about society when these lunatics take over .

Once again, please provide evidence that looters aren't going to be charged.

And I'd rather live in a place where its not ok to call the cops on a black person for no reason, thank you. Question is why you apparently wouldn't?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 06:48:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 06:24:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 04:48:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

Wasn't it in San Francisco where some white person called the cops on a black guy opening up his coffee stand in the morning? They told the cops he was breaking into it. The guy, a father, was opening up his own business, literally minding his own business, when a pair of cops showed up with hands on their guns asking what he was doing. I don't expect a Fox News viewer to have any kind of empathy, but I would imagine that would be a moment of stark terror for a black person who would think, rightly, that their life could be about to come to an abrupt end.

Then there's the family that was moving their luggage out of an Air BnB at the end of their vacation only to have the cops called on them by a white person who decided that a burglary was in progress!

Then there's the black student who dozed off for a nap while in college and had the cops called on her for god knows what reason.

Damn right it should be at least a misdemeanor to call the cops on a person of color without good cause. If you're so terrified of black people that to you it looks like everything they do, no matter how innocuous, looks "suspicious," then they need protection from you, not the other way around.
all these are publicized but do you not think people call the cops on white , Asian , Hispanics for no reason all the time ? what do you think the % of 911 calls on black people are legit ? Wait until the crime happens to call 911 is a great policy until you are at receiving end . If you feel in danger no matter who the person is you should be able to call the police without fear of being charged with a crime .

Typical unsophisticated, black-and-white, terrified, paranoid conservative thinking.

No room for nuance, no gray areas, and no common sense. Always with you people it's all-or-nothing. Either wait to be shot before calling the cops, or call the cops on sighting of a black person. The concept of stopping for a split second to ask yourself the question "if a white person were doing the same thing would I even think about calling the cops?" just does not enter your conservative mind.
eamon when you were involved in sf gaa you were terrified of Connemara men never mind black men
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:43:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .

You'll have to provide a source for violent rioters and looters being released without charge.

And you must be a very sensitive, paranoid type if you think a man asking you to obey park rules for your dog in a birdwatching area is hassle worth calling the cops for.
nypd have pulled their officers out of da offices in lots of boroughs because they won't charge rioters , keep you head in the sand .

Maybe YOU should pay less attention to the right wing fever swamps.

The decision was not to prosecute curfew violations and minor stuff. NOT violent rioting and looting.
release the looters charge the person calling police because she's being hassled, that's all there is to know about society when these lunatics take over .

Once again, please provide evidence that looters aren't going to be charged.

And I'd rather live in a place where its not ok to call the cops on a black person for no reason, thank you. Question is why you apparently wouldn't?


So you see a person of Color "breaking" into a house in a neighborhood where there has been a rash of Burglaries. You call the cops.......what happens next?

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106963782
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:02:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 06:48:38 PM
eamon when you were involved in sf gaa you were terrified of Connemara men never mind black men

Ha!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:43:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .

You'll have to provide a source for violent rioters and looters being released without charge.

And you must be a very sensitive, paranoid type if you think a man asking you to obey park rules for your dog in a birdwatching area is hassle worth calling the cops for.
nypd have pulled their officers out of da offices in lots of boroughs because they won't charge rioters , keep you head in the sand .

Maybe YOU should pay less attention to the right wing fever swamps.

The decision was not to prosecute curfew violations and minor stuff. NOT violent rioting and looting.
release the looters charge the person calling police because she's being hassled, that's all there is to know about society when these lunatics take over .

Once again, please provide evidence that looters aren't going to be charged.

And I'd rather live in a place where its not ok to call the cops on a black person for no reason, thank you. Question is why you apparently wouldn't?


So you see a person of Color "breaking" into a house in a neighborhood where there has been a rash of Burglaries. You call the cops.......what happens next?

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106963782

??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:08:43 PM
Copied from a friend

So if you didn't catch this mornings sh**show, it went basically like this:

The CDC put out its official recommendations and requirements states should meet before reopening schools.

Trump went to twitter, shitted on the CDC recommendations, demanding that k-12 schools fully open up in the fall. He threatened to cut federal funding if they do not.

Then the coronavirus task force held a press conference, minus Fauci, because he's on the President's shit list.

Betsy Devos said she really really really wants kids back in school. She does not know how to do this, offered no suggestions. Just that they need to open, and leaves it up to local officials to figure it out.

Vice President Pence said children are resilient. Basically made out of cartilage with healthy lungs. They probably won't get sick, so we shouldn't worry about them. There is also no disagreement between the CDC and Trump. Trump wants schools to open, and just doesn't want the CDC's guidelines to be the reason for schools not opening?

Yes, he actually said he doesn't want states to keep their schools closed just because their own CDC says it is not safe to open.

So the VP says, don't worry, let's bring up the Director of the CDC to clarify. -And I could've sworn I heard this guy gulp off camera.

But the director of the CDC comes up and says he also wants schools to open safely. He said he likes his job and wants to keep it, therefore, he is also in full agreement with Trump, despite the guidelines they released hours before.

So then Dr. Birx comes on and says half the country has seen a surge of new cases. The country is worse off than it was back at the start of all this. She said they should return to phase 1 and start all over.

Now, an astute reader may wonder how do half the states return to phase 1, and still expect to open by fall? Good question. ..... And while you were thinking about it, Birx tries to leave the podium.

But before she gets away, Pence stops her, suggests she 'talk about that other thing about the children'. She hesitates, then agrees.

She comes back up to the mic, says most children probably won't die. Maybe 0.02%. And usually the ones who die were already sick, so you parents at home may want to keep an eye on them. Oh- and we have virtually no data on how transmissible the virus is in children because we've barely tested any of them, but let me get out of your hair.

Pence comes back and says, see, we're good here.

————————-

So while all that is going Cuomo is holding his own press conference.

He says I don't even give a shit what Trump is saying. It's not worth responding to the clown. States control school openings, and we will do it as safely as possible, end of discussion.

Other states blew off our warnings, and now they are paying the price. You want to fix your states? Pull your heads out of your asses and follow our example.

—————————

And Fauci has gone total rogue. He has been giving interviews across the media spectrum, politely telling anyone who will listen that following trump's orders regarding the Coronavirus will lead to certain doom. Death and economic disaster on a scale never seen before. Please turn back while you still can.

And now you are filled in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 07:28:13 PM
But we need to re-elect him to make NFL players stand for the anthem and to keep those confederate statues in place!

Think that's about it for his pitch, so far.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

Lots of people were forced to fight for that flag in Vietnam. 58,000 of them didn't come home.

Mr. Bonespurs was not one of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

Lots of people were forced to fight for that flag in Vietnam. 58,000 of them didn't come home.

Mr. Bonespurs was not one of them.
so did Bill Clinton and Lyndon Johnson was the president who sent troops there first , WHATS your point
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 09:06:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

Lots of people were forced to fight for that flag in Vietnam. 58,000 of them didn't come home.

Mr. Bonespurs was not one of them.
so did Bill Clinton and Lyndon Johnson was the president who sent troops there first , WHATS your point

I don't think either of those were jingoists who based their campaigns on rabble rousing about "respecting" the flag and the anthem.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 09:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 09:06:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

Lots of people were forced to fight for that flag in Vietnam. 58,000 of them didn't come home.

Mr. Bonespurs was not one of them.
so did Bill Clinton and Lyndon Johnson was the president who sent troops there first , WHATS your point

I don't think either of those were jingoists who based their campaigns on rabble rousing about "respecting" the flag and the anthem.

I'll tell you what J70, this whole anthem nonsense really aggravates the $hit out of me. Players should do whatever the hell they want. Personally, I think they should Just stay in the locker room if they find the National Anthem objectionable, but that's just me

The NFL with their faux patriotism, all the while taking payments from the military. At the same time injured veterans are denied basic healthcare after having fought in a war that was based on a lie

https://archive.thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

I have an immediate family member (wife's nephew) who served in Afghanistan and ran a high profile advocacy program for injured vets when he finished in the military. His opinion is that he fought for the rights of people to stand or sit or kneel for the National Anthem and that a politician who actively dodged military service should stfu
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 09:41:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 09:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 09:06:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

Lots of people were forced to fight for that flag in Vietnam. 58,000 of them didn't come home.

Mr. Bonespurs was not one of them.
so did Bill Clinton and Lyndon Johnson was the president who sent troops there first , WHATS your point

I don't think either of those were jingoists who based their campaigns on rabble rousing about "respecting" the flag and the anthem.

I'll tell you what J70, this whole anthem nonsense really aggravates the $hit out of me. Players should do whatever the hell they want. Personally, I think they should Just stay in the locker room if they find the National Anthem objectionable, but that's just me

The NFL with their faux patriotism, all the while taking payments from the military. At the same time injured veterans are denied basic healthcare after having fought in a war that was based on a lie

https://archive.thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

I have an immediate family member (wife's nephew) who served in Afghanistan and ran a high profile advocacy program for injured vets when he finished in the military. His opinion is that he fought for the rights of people to stand or sit or kneel for the National Anthem and that a politician who actively dodged military service should stfu

Well said.

The treatment of vets has historically been a disgrace in the US. All sides have blame.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 09, 2020, 09:47:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

I believe they died fighting for the freedom to choose - as opposed to the other side who would have sent the gestapo after you if you didn't sieg heil with sufficient enthusiasm to the swastika.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 09, 2020, 09:47:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

I believe they died fighting for the freedom to choose - as opposed to the other side who would have sent the gestapo after you if you didn't sieg heil with sufficient enthusiasm to the swastika.
my point is eamon probably wouldn't make the same disparaging comment about the tricolor or Irish National anthem but will about the country that he emigrated too that gave him more opportunities and a better standard of living than he could have had in  Ireland. I find that attitude all too common these days and strange.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 09, 2020, 10:19:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 09, 2020, 09:47:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

I believe they died fighting for the freedom to choose - as opposed to the other side who would have sent the gestapo after you if you didn't sieg heil with sufficient enthusiasm to the swastika.
my point is eamon probably wouldn't make the same disparaging comment about the tricolor or Irish National anthem but will about the country that he emigrated too that gave him more opportunities and a better standard of living than he could have had in  Ireland. I find that attitude all too common these days and strange.

lol -yes the hypocrisy and double standards are mind blowing as are the chips on the shoulder and extremely thin skin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 09, 2020, 10:26:54 PM
Why is it a double-standard?

Do Eamon or any of the rest of us have cause to burn the tricolour or kneel during the anthem?

Has anyone condemned such acts while defending the rights of people to do so with the US flag or anthem?

Personally, I'd give up or even burn the Irish flag in a heartbeat if it was warranted. They're just symbols. Obvious issue to come to mind would be reunification.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

I think they were fighting for a bit more than a flag, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 10:43:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 09, 2020, 09:47:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

I believe they died fighting for the freedom to choose - as opposed to the other side who would have sent the gestapo after you if you didn't sieg heil with sufficient enthusiasm to the swastika.
my point is eamon probably wouldn't make the same disparaging comment about the tricolor or Irish National anthem but will about the country that he emigrated too that gave him more opportunities and a better standard of living than he could have had in  Ireland. I find that attitude all too common these days and strange.

What you call "making disparaging comments about" is what I call "doing what's necessary to make a better society," or striving "to form a more perfect union" as the founding documents put it.  The idea that patriotism requires one to be uncritical and unquestioning of your society is one that I find utterly bizarre and has become all too common today in conservative thought. America is all about civic engagement. It's all about participating in democracy as best you can to make the changes you feel are necessary, not waiting for some benevolent ruler to do it for you. The fact that I have a great lifestyle and standard of living doesn't mean I'm required to keep my mouth shut and unquestioningly follow all the rituals of the civic religion. In fact my standard of living is irrelevant.

And since I was technically born in the UK, and since I have no hesitation in criticizing what the union flag stands for, my position has been entirely consistent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 11:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:43:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?
her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .

You'll have to provide a source for violent rioters and looters being released without charge.

And you must be a very sensitive, paranoid type if you think a man asking you to obey park rules for your dog in a birdwatching area is hassle worth calling the cops for.
nypd have pulled their officers out of da offices in lots of boroughs because they won't charge rioters , keep you head in the sand .

Maybe YOU should pay less attention to the right wing fever swamps.

The decision was not to prosecute curfew violations and minor stuff. NOT violent rioting and looting.
release the looters charge the person calling police because she's being hassled, that's all there is to know about society when these lunatics take over .

Once again, please provide evidence that looters aren't going to be charged.

And I'd rather live in a place where its not ok to call the cops on a black person for no reason, thank you. Question is why you apparently wouldn't?
now your mayor is banning all large gatherings except blm protests , what a fuckiing joke
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:02:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 10:26:54 PM
Why is it a double-standard?

Do Eamon or any of the rest of us have cause to burn the tricolour or kneel during the anthem?

Has anyone condemned such acts while defending the rights of people to do so with the US flag or anthem?

Personally, I'd give up or even burn the Irish flag in a heartbeat if it was warranted. They're just symbols. Obvious issue to come to mind would be reunification.

So would it be okay to sit down during the National Anthem if you were enjoying a pint at the Felons Club in Belfast? 

Or to fly an Israeli flag in the middle of a crowd of Tyrone supporters? 

It's only a song and a piece of cloth after all


(I actually have an immediate family member who was physically threatened for having the cheek to ask a bartender to switch a TV over to a Liverpool game in an "IRA" pub. I guess they had Celtic showing on about 10 TVs and no one really paying attention so he didn't see what the big deal was. Threatening a 70 year old man for supporting the wrong team in Merseyside)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 10, 2020, 12:21:19 AM
Members of the Central Park 5 helped with the painting of Black Lives Matter outside Trump Tower.

https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1281324167728635915
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 12:30:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 09, 2020, 09:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 09:06:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 09, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!
lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

Lots of people were forced to fight for that flag in Vietnam. 58,000 of them didn't come home.

Mr. Bonespurs was not one of them.
so did Bill Clinton and Lyndon Johnson was the president who sent troops there first , WHATS your point

I don't think either of those were jingoists who based their campaigns on rabble rousing about "respecting" the flag and the anthem.

I'll tell you what J70, this whole anthem nonsense really aggravates the $hit out of me. Players should do whatever the hell they want. Personally, I think they should Just stay in the locker room if they find the National Anthem objectionable, but that's just me

The NFL with their faux patriotism, all the while taking payments from the military. At the same time injured veterans are denied basic healthcare after having fought in a war that was based on a lie

https://archive.thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

I have an immediate family member (wife's nephew) who served in Afghanistan and ran a high profile advocacy program for injured vets when he finished in the military. His opinion is that he fought for the rights of people to stand or sit or kneel for the National Anthem and that a politician who actively dodged military service should stfu

This is part of the myth that the US white/right wing spinon this. Which players have said they find the anthem "objectionable"?

How many times do people have to be told that they're not protesting against the anthem or the flag?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:49:42 AM
So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 10, 2020, 12:53:09 AM
It's like talking to a 2 year old
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:01:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:49:42 AM
So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:01:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:49:42 AM
So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.
7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence
Some players and former players more interested in quoting hitler and Farrakhan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 03:01:48 AM
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:01:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:49:42 AM
So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.

Unfortunately for the Black community, the police are the least of their problems right now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 10:09:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:01:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:49:42 AM
So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.
7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence
Some players and former players more interested in quoting hitler and Farrakhan.

Whataboutery.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 12:15:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:02:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 09, 2020, 10:26:54 PM
Why is it a double-standard?

Do Eamon or any of the rest of us have cause to burn the tricolour or kneel during the anthem?

Has anyone condemned such acts while defending the rights of people to do so with the US flag or anthem?

Personally, I'd give up or even burn the Irish flag in a heartbeat if it was warranted. They're just symbols. Obvious issue to come to mind would be reunification.

So would it be okay to sit down during the National Anthem if you were enjoying a pint at the Felons Club in Belfast? 

Or to fly an Israeli flag in the middle of a crowd of Tyrone supporters? 

It's only a song and a piece of cloth after all


(I actually have an immediate family member who was physically threatened for having the cheek to ask a bartender to switch a TV over to a Liverpool game in an "IRA" pub. I guess they had Celtic showing on about 10 TVs and no one really paying attention so he didn't see what the big deal was. Threatening a 70 year old man for supporting the wrong team in Merseyside)

You seem to be conflating being allowed to do it by the authorities with getting abuse from those standing around.

I've never said NFL supporters shouldn't be allowed to heckle Colin Kapernick when he kneels. Free speech goes both ways.

Violence is a separate issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

The NFL banned the players from kneeling on the field. That counts as an authority in their case, would you not agree? Goodell recently reversed it.

Kaepernick de facto had his career ended because of his actions.

Trump would make "disrespect" of the flag/anthem a crime if he had half a chance. Fortunately for everyone, he doesn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

The NFL banned the players from kneeling on the field. That counts as an authority in their case, would you not agree? Goodell recently reversed it.

Kaepernick de facto had his career ended because of his actions.

Trump would make "disrespect" of the flag/anthem a crime if he had half a chance. Fortunately for everyone, he doesn't.

Ok..I understood "authorities" as meaning the government.

The NFL owners did also gave them the option of staying in the locker room if they didn't want to stand for the anthem.

At the end of the day these athletes are employees of a franchise and their salaries are paid for by the fans through season ticket sales, jersies etc.  If they don't their teams "anthem policy" they can look for another job, just like any one else who is unsatisfied with their work conditions

(And I respect their right to kneel.....but if you take the big check you should know it doesn't come without strings attached)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:44:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

The NFL banned the players from kneeling on the field. That counts as an authority in their case, would you not agree? Goodell recently reversed it.

Kaepernick de facto had his career ended because of his actions.

Trump would make "disrespect" of the flag/anthem a crime if he had half a chance. Fortunately for everyone, he doesn't.

Ok..I understood "authorities" as meaning the government.

The NFL owners did also gave them the option of staying in the locker room if they didn't want to stand for the anthem.

At the end of the day these athletes are employees of a franchise and their salaries are paid for by the fans through season ticket sales, jersies etc.  If they don't their teams "anthem policy" they can look for another job, just like any one else who is unsatisfied with their work conditions

(And I respect their right to kneel.....but if you take the big check you should know it doesn't come without strings attached)

Yeah and Roger Ailes had a "suck my c**k policy" when it came to attractive female newsreaders. Rather than complain, they should have just fucked off somewhere else if they didn't like the work conditions.

Because that's how it works  ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 01:47:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

The NFL banned the players from kneeling on the field. That counts as an authority in their case, would you not agree? Goodell recently reversed it.

Kaepernick de facto had his career ended because of his actions.

Trump would make "disrespect" of the flag/anthem a crime if he had half a chance. Fortunately for everyone, he doesn't.

Ok..I understood "authorities" as meaning the government.

The NFL owners did also gave them the option of staying in the locker room if they didn't want to stand for the anthem.

At the end of the day these athletes are employees of a franchise and their salaries are paid for by the fans through season ticket sales, jersies etc.  If they don't their teams "anthem policy" they can look for another job, just like any one else who is unsatisfied with their work conditions

(And I respect their right to kneel.....but if you take the big check you should know it doesn't come without strings attached)

Staying back in the locker room is a pretty toothless form of protest. It was a bullshit alternative.

And yes, obviously everyone is subject to the whims of their employers, for the most part. But its hard to "look for another job" when the entire industry is blackballing you or your cause.

And for little reason as it turns out.

The NFL folded like a cheap suit in response to the George Floyd protests. They're like most corporations, worried more about their public image than what's objectively the right thing to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:44:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

The NFL banned the players from kneeling on the field. That counts as an authority in their case, would you not agree? Goodell recently reversed it.

Kaepernick de facto had his career ended because of his actions.

Trump would make "disrespect" of the flag/anthem a crime if he had half a chance. Fortunately for everyone, he doesn't.

Ok..I understood "authorities" as meaning the government.

The NFL owners did also gave them the option of staying in the locker room if they didn't want to stand for the anthem.

At the end of the day these athletes are employees of a franchise and their salaries are paid for by the fans through season ticket sales, jersies etc.  If they don't their teams "anthem policy" they can look for another job, just like any one else who is unsatisfied with their work conditions

(And I respect their right to kneel.....but if you take the big check you should know it doesn't come without strings attached)

Yeah and Roger Ailes had a "suck my c**k policy" when it came to attractive female newsreaders. Rather than complain, they should have just fucked off somewhere else if they didn't like the work conditions.

Because that's how it works  ::) ::)

Absolutely

No one is forcing anyone to work at Fox News or anywhere else for that matter

Some people are willing to put their morals and dignity to one side for a seven figure salary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:44:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

The NFL banned the players from kneeling on the field. That counts as an authority in their case, would you not agree? Goodell recently reversed it.

Kaepernick de facto had his career ended because of his actions.

Trump would make "disrespect" of the flag/anthem a crime if he had half a chance. Fortunately for everyone, he doesn't.

Ok..I understood "authorities" as meaning the government.

The NFL owners did also gave them the option of staying in the locker room if they didn't want to stand for the anthem.

At the end of the day these athletes are employees of a franchise and their salaries are paid for by the fans through season ticket sales, jersies etc.  If they don't their teams "anthem policy" they can look for another job, just like any one else who is unsatisfied with their work conditions

(And I respect their right to kneel.....but if you take the big check you should know it doesn't come without strings attached)

Yeah and Roger Ailes had a "suck my c**k policy" when it came to attractive female newsreaders. Rather than complain, they should have just fucked off somewhere else if they didn't like the work conditions.

Because that's how it works  ::) ::)

Absolutely

No one is forcing anyone to work at Fox News or anywhere else for that matter

Some people are willing to put their morals and dignity to one side for a seven figure salary

Or to submit to abuse for fear of having their career ruined and future prospects jeopardized because a man like Ailes or Weinstein or any of these f**kers will blacken their names in the industry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 10, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:01:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:49:42 AM
So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.
7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence
Some players and former players more interested in quoting hitler and Farrakhan.

You're like the unionists who would respond to every statement about RUC/loyalist collusion with "What about the people killed by the IRA?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:44:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

The NFL banned the players from kneeling on the field. That counts as an authority in their case, would you not agree? Goodell recently reversed it.

Kaepernick de facto had his career ended because of his actions.

Trump would make "disrespect" of the flag/anthem a crime if he had half a chance. Fortunately for everyone, he doesn't.

Ok..I understood "authorities" as meaning the government.

The NFL owners did also gave them the option of staying in the locker room if they didn't want to stand for the anthem.

At the end of the day these athletes are employees of a franchise and their salaries are paid for by the fans through season ticket sales, jersies etc.  If they don't their teams "anthem policy" they can look for another job, just like any one else who is unsatisfied with their work conditions

(And I respect their right to kneel.....but if you take the big check you should know it doesn't come without strings attached)

Yeah and Roger Ailes had a "suck my c**k policy" when it came to attractive female newsreaders. Rather than complain, they should have just fucked off somewhere else if they didn't like the work conditions.

Because that's how it works  ::) ::)

Absolutely

No one is forcing anyone to work at Fox News or anywhere else for that matter

Some people are willing to put their morals and dignity to one side for a seven figure salary

Or to submit to abuse for fear of having their career ruined and future prospects jeopardized because a man like Ailes or Weinstein or any of these f**kers will blacken their names in the industry.

The world has changed and things that were normal or accepted even 20 years ago would shock people today

In my school days, which were 70s/80s, the beatings that were doled out wouldn't be tolerated today. In fact some people would most likely be prosecuted and banned from even setting foot in classroom again.l, but back then it was just accepted

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 10, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2020, 01:01:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 12:49:42 AM
So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.
7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence
Some players and former players more interested in quoting hitler and Farrakhan.

You're like the unionists who would respond to every statement about RUC/loyalist collusion with "What about the people killed by the IRA?"


Lol-false equivalence.

We're Nationalists killing thousands of their own people every year?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don’t they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it’s happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.
how will they be investigated if there are no police in the communities remember defund , disband the police , in 2018 about 6000 white people were murdered and 7500 black people if that is an alarming stat . 73 and 13% of population respectively.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the numbers of Black people killed by the police (or white people for that matter) would be less than (or close to) 1% of the total number of black people killed.

So spend all your time addressing 1% of the problem, while conveniently ignoring 99% of it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.
how will they be investigated if there are no police in the communities remember defund , disband the police , in 2018 about 6000 white people were murdered and 7500 black people if that is an alarming stat . 73 and 13% of population respectively.

On what planet is there not going to be any police?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the numbers of Black people killed by the police (or white people for that matter) would be less than (or close to) 1% of the total number of black people killed.

So spend all your time addressing 1% of the problem, while conveniently ignoring 99% of it

So there is no one out there trying to address the social and criminal problems afflicting poor, minority neighbourhoods?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
Trump targeting universities now because they've had the audacity to question full reopening this autumn, as well as his attempts to go after international students. Doubling down on culture war as his record is an utter shitshow.

When it comes to indoctrination, one wonders how closely he will look at all those christian colleges who use primacy of jesus standards to allow students and faculty a place?

Unfortunately for the Dear Leader, a lot of facts when it comes to fields such as science and medicine for some reason conflict with the politics of the US right wing. Perhaps they'd be better re-examining their assumptions and theories instead of throwing a tantrum.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/506762-trump-tells-treasury-to-review-universities-tax-exempt-status (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/506762-trump-tells-treasury-to-review-universities-tax-exempt-status)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:54:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.
how will they be investigated if there are no police in the communities remember defund , disband the police , in 2018 about 6000 white people were murdered and 7500 black people if that is an alarming stat . 73 and 13% of population respectively.

On what planet is there not going to be any police?
the planet de Blasio  Aoc  Omar and all the looney left live on and you back fully
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:54:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.
how will they be investigated if there are no police in the communities remember defund , disband the police , in 2018 about 6000 white people were murdered and 7500 black people if that is an alarming stat . 73 and 13% of population respectively.

On what planet is there not going to be any police?
the planet de Blasio  Aoc  Omar and all the looney left live on and you back fully

DeBlasio has NEVER advocated abolishing the police. He gets grief regularly for defending various aspects of NYPD policy, despite what you're apparently reading in the fever swamps.

And if and when the Dems and liberalism in general is led by AOC and so on, then you can come back to us. In the meantime, we've got a centrist, moderate candidate for the presidency.

YOU'VE got an ignorant, bigoted, conspiracy-theory-believing, corrupt freakshow leading and ruling your movement with an iron fist.

So your throwing around of the looney label is fairly ridiculous and un-self-aware.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the numbers of Black people killed by the police (or white people for that matter) would be less than (or close to) 1% of the total number of black people killed.

So spend all your time addressing 1% of the problem, while conveniently ignoring 99% of it

So there is no one out there trying to address the social and criminal problems afflicting poor, minority neighbourhoods?

Maybe there is but BLM has sucked all the energy out of whatever efforts they have

Did you read about this.....looter shot 3 people who had the nerve to ask him not to loot a liquor store. One of them died

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-murder-west-side-charges-police/6309700/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the numbers of Black people killed by the police (or white people for that matter) would be less than (or close to) 1% of the total number of black people killed.

So spend all your time addressing 1% of the problem, while conveniently ignoring 99% of it

So there is no one out there trying to address the social and criminal problems afflicting poor, minority neighbourhoods?

Maybe there is but BLM has sucked all the energy out of whatever efforts they have

Did you read about this.....looter shot 3 people who had the nerve to ask him not to loot a liquor store. One of them died

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-murder-west-side-charges-police/6309700/

Why would BLM aims conflict with efforts to address those concerns? They're not mutually exclusive. And it's not like those efforts are headline news at any time.

As for the lowlife in that story, I would hope and expect that he will go down for a very long time. But just because he used the protests to his own, selfish and criminal short term ends doesn't negate either BLM or the efforts of community activists who tried to stop him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:52:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the numbers of Black people killed by the police (or white people for that matter) would be less than (or close to) 1% of the total number of black people killed.

So spend all your time addressing 1% of the problem, while conveniently ignoring 99% of it

So there is no one out there trying to address the social and criminal problems afflicting poor, minority neighbourhoods?

Maybe there is but BLM has sucked all the energy out of whatever efforts they have

Did you read about this.....looter shot 3 people who had the nerve to ask him not to loot a liquor store. One of them died

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-murder-west-side-charges-police/6309700/

Why would BLM aims conflict with efforts to address those concerns? They're not mutually exclusive. And it's not like those efforts are headline news at any time.

As for the lowlife in that story, I would hope and expect that he will go down for a very long time. But just because he used the protests to his own, selfish and criminal short term ends doesn't negate either BLM or the efforts of community activists who tried to stop him.

So how many high profile protest marches have they held over recent years to protest killings by gang members in their own communities?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 08:56:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:54:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.
how will they be investigated if there are no police in the communities remember defund , disband the police , in 2018 about 6000 white people were murdered and 7500 black people if that is an alarming stat . 73 and 13% of population respectively.

On what planet is there not going to be any police?
the planet de Blasio  Aoc  Omar and all the looney left live on and you back fully

DeBlasio has NEVER advocated abolishing the police. He gets grief regularly for defending various aspects of NYPD policy, despite what you're apparently reading in the fever swamps.

And if and when the Dems and liberalism in general is led by AOC and so on, then you can come back to us. In the meantime, we've got a centrist, moderate candidate for the presidency.

YOU'VE got an ignorant, bigoted, conspiracy-theory-believing, corrupt freakshow leading and ruling your movement with an iron fist.

So your throwing around of the looney label is fairly ridiculous and un-self-aware.
whats a fever swamp?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:52:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the numbers of Black people killed by the police (or white people for that matter) would be less than (or close to) 1% of the total number of black people killed.

So spend all your time addressing 1% of the problem, while conveniently ignoring 99% of it

So there is no one out there trying to address the social and criminal problems afflicting poor, minority neighbourhoods?

Maybe there is but BLM has sucked all the energy out of whatever efforts they have

Did you read about this.....looter shot 3 people who had the nerve to ask him not to loot a liquor store. One of them died

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-murder-west-side-charges-police/6309700/

Why would BLM aims conflict with efforts to address those concerns? They're not mutually exclusive. And it's not like those efforts are headline news at any time.

As for the lowlife in that story, I would hope and expect that he will go down for a very long time. But just because he used the protests to his own, selfish and criminal short term ends doesn't negate either BLM or the efforts of community activists who tried to stop him.

So how many high profile protest marches have they held over recent years to protest killings by gang members in their own communities?

Have who held?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 10, 2020, 09:11:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 08:56:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:54:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.
how will they be investigated if there are no police in the communities remember defund , disband the police , in 2018 about 6000 white people were murdered and 7500 black people if that is an alarming stat . 73 and 13% of population respectively.

On what planet is there not going to be any police?
the planet de Blasio  Aoc  Omar and all the looney left live on and you back fully

DeBlasio has NEVER advocated abolishing the police. He gets grief regularly for defending various aspects of NYPD policy, despite what you're apparently reading in the fever swamps.

And if and when the Dems and liberalism in general is led by AOC and so on, then you can come back to us. In the meantime, we've got a centrist, moderate candidate for the presidency.

YOU'VE got an ignorant, bigoted, conspiracy-theory-believing, corrupt freakshow leading and ruling your movement with an iron fist.

So your throwing around of the looney label is fairly ridiculous and un-self-aware.
whats a fever swamp?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fever%20swamp (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fever%20swamp)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 10, 2020, 10:31:50 PM
One more time: "Defund the police" means stop using the police for activities that they are neither trained nor equipped to deal with, and instead fund the appropriate social services that are better equipped to deal with said issues. It means reallocating resources, not cutting them off completely.

Stop believing everything Fox News tells you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 10, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:52:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the numbers of Black people killed by the police (or white people for that matter) would be less than (or close to) 1% of the total number of black people killed.

So spend all your time addressing 1% of the problem, while conveniently ignoring 99% of it

So there is no one out there trying to address the social and criminal problems afflicting poor, minority neighbourhoods?

Maybe there is but BLM has sucked all the energy out of whatever efforts they have

Did you read about this.....looter shot 3 people who had the nerve to ask him not to loot a liquor store. One of them died

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-murder-west-side-charges-police/6309700/

Why would BLM aims conflict with efforts to address those concerns? They're not mutually exclusive. And it's not like those efforts are headline news at any time.

As for the lowlife in that story, I would hope and expect that he will go down for a very long time. But just because he used the protests to his own, selfish and criminal short term ends doesn't negate either BLM or the efforts of community activists who tried to stop him.

So how many high profile protest marches have they held over recent years to protest killings by gang members in their own communities?

Have who held?

The same people who are protesting today
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 11:17:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:52:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the numbers of Black people killed by the police (or white people for that matter) would be less than (or close to) 1% of the total number of black people killed.

So spend all your time addressing 1% of the problem, while conveniently ignoring 99% of it

So there is no one out there trying to address the social and criminal problems afflicting poor, minority neighbourhoods?

Maybe there is but BLM has sucked all the energy out of whatever efforts they have

Did you read about this.....looter shot 3 people who had the nerve to ask him not to loot a liquor store. One of them died

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-murder-west-side-charges-police/6309700/

Why would BLM aims conflict with efforts to address those concerns? They're not mutually exclusive. And it's not like those efforts are headline news at any time.

As for the lowlife in that story, I would hope and expect that he will go down for a very long time. But just because he used the protests to his own, selfish and criminal short term ends doesn't negate either BLM or the efforts of community activists who tried to stop him.

So how many high profile protest marches have they held over recent years to protest killings by gang members in their own communities?

Have who held?

The same people who are protesting today
d lemon came clean the other night he only cares about black people killed by white cops
The others he doesn't care about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 11, 2020, 12:29:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 10, 2020, 10:31:50 PM
One more time: "Defund the police" means stop using the police for activities that they are neither trained nor equipped to deal with, and instead fund the appropriate social services that are better equipped to deal with said issues. It means reallocating resources, not cutting them off completely.

Seems pretty sensible to me.

I suppose to engage on any level with the concept also requires an ability to think rather than being limited to spouting far right soundbytes!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2020, 12:44:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:52:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 10, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 10, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: dec on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2020, 02:48:03 AM

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence


Because the those murders will be properly investigated and if they find out who did it they will put them on trial and most likely convict them. When blacks kill whites we know the same will happen.

But when the police or white vigilantes kill a black person the perpetrators are usually not even arrested.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the numbers of Black people killed by the police (or white people for that matter) would be less than (or close to) 1% of the total number of black people killed.

So spend all your time addressing 1% of the problem, while conveniently ignoring 99% of it

So there is no one out there trying to address the social and criminal problems afflicting poor, minority neighbourhoods?

Maybe there is but BLM has sucked all the energy out of whatever efforts they have

Did you read about this.....looter shot 3 people who had the nerve to ask him not to loot a liquor store. One of them died

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-murder-west-side-charges-police/6309700/

Why would BLM aims conflict with efforts to address those concerns? They're not mutually exclusive. And it's not like those efforts are headline news at any time.

As for the lowlife in that story, I would hope and expect that he will go down for a very long time. But just because he used the protests to his own, selfish and criminal short term ends doesn't negate either BLM or the efforts of community activists who tried to stop him.

So how many high profile protest marches have they held over recent years to protest killings by gang members in their own communities?

Have who held?

The same people who are protesting today

I don't know.

I expect most of them support liberal policies that try to fund solutions to these problems. I expect most of them were marching because their public servants, who their taxes pay for, are repeatedly getting caught targeting black people.

What do conservatives offer except whataboutery and screaming about Kaepernick and Al Sharpton?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 11, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
So has he given up on 2020?  Isn't not customary for the retiring president to give out pardons?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2020, 01:25:34 PM
Roger remembered "the two greatest things in life" and got his reward:

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/d36cf6e6959af2d700aaa89f228d0d47/tenor.gif?itemid=5412729)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2020, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 11, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
So has he given up on 2020?  Isn't not customary for the retiring president to give out pardons?

Yep, the tradition for both sides is to save the dodgy pardons for when they're on the way out the door. No one gives a bollocks then as there is so much else going on with a new administration coming in.

Trump doesn't give a f**k about the appearance of self-dealing. Especially when he's got Barr in there and he knows Pelosi, who had to be dragged kicking and screaming the first time, is not going to start anything major a few months before the election in a year when he's already been impeached.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2020, 01:56:10 PM
David Duke wants Trump to toss Pence and bring Tucker Carlson into the VP slot this autumn.

Whatever about Pence, Trump will be gratified to have the white supremacist vote again.

Trump & Tucker is the only way to stop the commie Bolsheviks! It is the only path to beat them! #TrumpTucker2020

https://twitter.com/DrDavidDuke/status/1281072310418657281 (https://twitter.com/DrDavidDuke/status/1281072310418657281)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:21:22 PM
Tucker is definitely not a racist though...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/media/tucker-carlson-writer-blake-neff/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 11, 2020, 04:34:41 PM
Let's prosecute everyone who lies under oath while we are at it....Page, Comey, McCabe Strok

And let's pay special attention to the rogue FBI agents who committed 17 "errors" during the FISA application processo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
at least he's not pardoning drug dealers and terrorists like your hero.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2020, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
at least he's not pardoning drug dealers and terrorists like your hero.

What terrorist did Obama pardon?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
at least he's not pardoning drug dealers and terrorists like your hero.

What terrorist did Obama pardon?
oscar Lopez Rivera
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2020, 08:40:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
at least he's not pardoning drug dealers and terrorists like your hero.

What terrorist did Obama pardon?
oscar Lopez Rivera

He wasn't pardoned.

He had the remainder of his sentence commuted after serving more than 35 years.

Stone didn't serve a day because he looked out for his boss's interests and kept his mouth shut. It was like a mob boss looking after a tough soldier who took one for the team.

Will Michael Cohen get the same treatment?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 08:40:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
at least he's not pardoning drug dealers and terrorists like your hero.

What terrorist did Obama pardon?
oscar Lopez Rivera

He wasn't pardoned.

He had the remainder of his sentence commuted after serving more than 35 years.

Stone didn't serve a day because he looked out for his boss's interests and kept his mouth shut. It was like a mob boss looking after a tough soldier who took one for the team.

Will Michael Cohen get the same treatment?
he was actually out and messed up on his terms of release and is back in jail .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 11, 2020, 11:40:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
at least he's not pardoning drug dealers and terrorists like your hero.

Friendly reminder: it took Obama to get Bin Laden long after Bush forgot about him. You're welcome.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519887/Tucker-Carlson-vacation-chief-writer-forced-resign.html

Hopefully the fishing trip is Tucker getting fired!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:33:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519887/Tucker-Carlson-vacation-chief-writer-forced-resign.html

Hopefully the fishing trip is Tucker getting fired!
so everyone you disagree with you want fired ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 04:37:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:33:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519887/Tucker-Carlson-vacation-chief-writer-forced-resign.html

Hopefully the fishing trip is Tucker getting fired!
so everyone you disagree with you want fired ?

Oh no definitely not but racists and people trying to pass off racism as "we're all human" yeah I'd be happy enough for them to be fired!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 04:43:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 04:37:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:33:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519887/Tucker-Carlson-vacation-chief-writer-forced-resign.html

Hopefully the fishing trip is Tucker getting fired!
so everyone you disagree with you want fired ?

Oh no definitely not but racists and people trying to pass off racism as "we're all human" yeah I'd be happy enough for them to be fired!
the writer got fired , joy Reid  who's homophobic got a promotion on msnbc don't see you talking about that .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 14, 2020, 05:14:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:33:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519887/Tucker-Carlson-vacation-chief-writer-forced-resign.html

Hopefully the fishing trip is Tucker getting fired!
so everyone you disagree with you want fired ?

Yes. Everyone I disagree with. I think that Star Trek Deep Space Nine was the best Trek franchise. Anyone who prefers Voyager, TNG, TOS, or any other flavour of Trek needs to lose their job forthwith.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 14, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
resignation letter from an opinion writer at the NY Times

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

"But the lessons that ought to have followed the election—lessons about the importance of understanding other Americans, the necessity of resisting tribalism, and the centrality of the free exchange of ideas to a democratic society—have not been learned. Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at this paper: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 14, 2020, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 08:40:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
at least he's not pardoning drug dealers and terrorists like your hero.

What terrorist did Obama pardon?
oscar Lopez Rivera

He wasn't pardoned.

He had the remainder of his sentence commuted after serving more than 35 years.

Stone didn't serve a day because he looked out for his boss's interests and kept his mouth shut. It was like a mob boss looking after a tough soldier who took one for the team.

Will Michael Cohen get the same treatment?
he was actually out and messed up on his terms of release and is back in jail .

GMAC .. can you please tell us how Cohen messed up his terms of release?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 07:36:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519887/Tucker-Carlson-vacation-chief-writer-forced-resign.html

Hopefully the fishing trip is Tucker getting fired!

One less sc**bag on TV - won't be missed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 14, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html

" I've been advocating the abolition of the police for years."

Who was one here mocking conservatives for (correctly) claiming people wanted to abolish the police

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 14, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html

" I've been advocating the abolition of the police for years."

Who was one here mocking conservatives for (correctly) claiming people wanted to abolish the police

When your finished with all that straw, don't forget to bale it before the rain comes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 08:34:53 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 07:36:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519887/Tucker-Carlson-vacation-chief-writer-forced-resign.html

Hopefully the fishing trip is Tucker getting fired!

One less sc**bag on TV - won't be missed
your big on the homophobia accusations nothing to say about joy Reid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 08:45:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 14, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html

" I've been advocating the abolition of the police for years."

Who was one here mocking conservatives for (correctly) claiming people wanted to abolish the police

When your finished with all that straw, don't forget to bale it before the rain comes.

One opinion writer = "people"

(https://i.gifer.com/7BxJ.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 08:34:53 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 07:36:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519887/Tucker-Carlson-vacation-chief-writer-forced-resign.html

Hopefully the fishing trip is Tucker getting fired!

One less sc**bag on TV - won't be missed
your big on the homophobia accusations nothing to say about joy Reid

Is that English? I'm homophobic? Who is Joy Reid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 08:50:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 14, 2020, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 08:40:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
at least he's not pardoning drug dealers and terrorists like your hero.

What terrorist did Obama pardon?
oscar Lopez Rivera

He wasn't pardoned.

He had the remainder of his sentence commuted after serving more than 35 years.

Stone didn't serve a day because he looked out for his boss's interests and kept his mouth shut. It was like a mob boss looking after a tough soldier who took one for the team.

Will Michael Cohen get the same treatment?
he was actually out and messed up on his terms of release and is back in jail .

GMAC .. can you please tell us how Cohen messed up his terms of release?
he was going to serve the rest of his sentence at home but didn't like the fact he couldn't talk to the media so he was put back in prison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 14, 2020, 08:52:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 08:45:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 14, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html

" I've been advocating the abolition of the police for years."

Who was one here mocking conservatives for (correctly) claiming people wanted to abolish the police

When your finished with all that straw, don't forget to bale it before the rain comes.

One opinion writer = "people"

(https://i.gifer.com/7BxJ.gif)

Well it wasn't fvckin aliens who were saying it

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Did your buddy the detective tell you people were saying it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 14, 2020, 09:35:31 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Did your buddy the detective tell you people were saying it?


LOL

Actually I found out that he used to be in the Secret Service under the Bush Administration

He was also involved in a death penalty case when he was a cop in Atlanta-even attended the execution.

He helped serve a warrant in a guy a couple of years ago, who a week later shot another cop dead at the exactly the same address

Interesting guy to say the least

I'm going to Martha's Vineyard with him in a few weeks....I'll tell him you thanked him for his service


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 09:46:23 PM
Story time with whitey - fantastic  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 14, 2020, 09:57:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 09:46:23 PM
Story time with whitey - fantastic  ::)

100% true-every word


https://www.ajc.com/news/local/georgia-executes-atlanta-cop-killer-gregory-lawler/pvLPVo6iRPjLAs0nNIwruO/amp.html

Cop who was killed had moved down from Boston to Atlanta like my buddy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 10:02:42 PM
Was just in San Francisco for some business and if the future is anything like it is there in the downtown area god help us , homeless people everywhere, drug addicts  shooting up outside parking garage I was in ,poop patrol cleaning up shit off the streets , scum bags hanging around every corner looking for an easy victim to rob or steal an iPhone off , Gavin and Nancy should hang their heads in shame as should  the Democrat party and leadership. A beautiful city destroyed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 14, 2020, 10:50:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 08:50:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on July 14, 2020, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 08:40:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2020, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 11, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 11, 2020, 01:23:04 AM
No jail time for roger stone

LAW AND ORDER!!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
at least he's not pardoning drug dealers and terrorists like your hero.

What terrorist did Obama pardon?
oscar Lopez Rivera

He wasn't pardoned.

He had the remainder of his sentence commuted after serving more than 35 years.

Stone didn't serve a day because he looked out for his boss's interests and kept his mouth shut. It was like a mob boss looking after a tough soldier who took one for the team.

Will Michael Cohen get the same treatment?
he was actually out and messed up on his terms of release and is back in jail .

GMAC .. can you please tell us how Cohen messed up his terms of release?
he was going to serve the rest of his sentence at home but didn't like the fact he couldn't talk to the media so he was put back in prison.
Are you sure that's exactly what happened?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 08:52:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 08:45:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 14, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html

" I've been advocating the abolition of the police for years."

Who was one here mocking conservatives for (correctly) claiming people wanted to abolish the police

When your finished with all that straw, don't forget to bale it before the rain comes.

One opinion writer = "people"

(https://i.gifer.com/7BxJ.gif)

Well it wasn't fvckin aliens who were saying it

If and when the Democratic platform and leadership jumps on the "abolish the police" train, come back to us. I never heard of Mariame Kaba before.

On her piece itself, do you disagree with EVERYTHING she has to say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 15, 2020, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 08:52:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 08:45:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 14, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 07:39:58 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html

" I've been advocating the abolition of the police for years."

Who was one here mocking conservatives for (correctly) claiming people wanted to abolish the police

When your finished with all that straw, don't forget to bale it before the rain comes.

One opinion writer = "people"

(https://i.gifer.com/7BxJ.gif)

Well it wasn't fvckin aliens who were saying it

If and when the Democratic platform and leadership jumps on the "abolish the police" train, come back to us. I never heard of Mariame Kaba before.

On her piece itself, do you disagree with EVERYTHING she has to say?

One of the lefties on here scoffed at the suggestion that people were calling for the abolition of the police and here we have exactly such a suggestion in black and white in The NY Times

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.

Yeah, I'm sure he's out there right now spray painting all the Trump properties in the city (at least those that still have Trump's name on them) and wiring up One Police Plaza for demolition as we speak.

You're a wee bit obsessed with a mayor who lives in and whose power is limited to a city 3000 miles away from you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:58:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 14, 2020, 07:36:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519887/Tucker-Carlson-vacation-chief-writer-forced-resign.html

Hopefully the fishing trip is Tucker getting fired!

One less sc**bag on TV - won't be missed

Maybe he'll fulfill David Duke's wishes and oust Mike Pence to give the KKK a dream GOP ticket for November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
resignation letter from an opinion writer at the NY Times

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

"But the lessons that ought to have followed the election—lessons about the importance of understanding other Americans, the necessity of resisting tribalism, and the centrality of the free exchange of ideas to a democratic society—have not been learned. Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at this paper: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else."

Max Blumenthal's take
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/ (https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 15, 2020, 06:52:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
resignation letter from an opinion writer at the NY Times

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

"But the lessons that ought to have followed the election—lessons about the importance of understanding other Americans, the necessity of resisting tribalism, and the centrality of the free exchange of ideas to a democratic society—have not been learned. Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at this paper: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else."

Max Blumenthal's take
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/ (https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/)

So she's now a Neocon? LOL

That's exactly like whats thrown around on here.....either agree with us or you're a racist a bigot a Nazi or a Neocon

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/04/bari-weiss-the-new-york-times-provocateur/amp


"If you read her work, she's a liberal humanist whose guiding principle is free expression in art, love, and discourse, something the left spent decades fighting to achieve"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 06:52:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
resignation letter from an opinion writer at the NY Times

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

"But the lessons that ought to have followed the election—lessons about the importance of understanding other Americans, the necessity of resisting tribalism, and the centrality of the free exchange of ideas to a democratic society—have not been learned. Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at this paper: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else."

Max Blumenthal's take
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/ (https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/)

So she's now a Neocon? LOL

That's exactly like whats thrown around on here.....either agree with us or you're a racist a bigot a Nazi or a Neocon

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/04/bari-weiss-the-new-york-times-provocateur/amp


"If you read her work, she's a liberal humanist whose guiding principle is free expression in art, love, and discourse, something the left spent decades fighting to achieve"

Honestly, didn't know much about her before I saw your piece (I stopped watching Maher years ago as my wife doesn't like him, otherwise I might have recognized her). I've read plenty of Bret Stephens' and David Brooks' stuff on the opinion page, but hers, for whatever reason, never caught my attention.

Leaving aside whatever really happened at the Times, I think you've a fair point on the rigid conformity seemingly demanded in this age of Twitter, although I would argue that it applies across the board.

Part of the reason I do not have a Twitter account. Its basically a shallow, hit-and-run type of forum, with no proper engagement or discussion or nuance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 15, 2020, 07:26:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 07:23:05 PM

I stopped watching Maher years ago as my wife doesn't like him

Maher's antivaxxer bullshit is getting out of hand. A few weeks ago in his closing monologue he was calling on young people to go out and get the virus because he thinks their immune systems can cope, and somehow that'd be doing us all a favour. The next week he was canceling an event "coz Covid." For all his preaching about the right being into science denial, he does plenty of science denial himself. It's gotten worse under lockdown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2020, 07:34:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 15, 2020, 07:26:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 07:23:05 PM

I stopped watching Maher years ago as my wife doesn't like him

Maher's antivaxxer bullshit is getting out of hand. A few weeks ago in his closing monologue he was calling on young people to go out and get the virus because he thinks their immune systems can cope, and somehow that'd be doing us all a favour. The next week he was canceling an event "coz Covid." For all his preaching about the right being into science denial, he does plenty of science denial himself. It's gotten worse under lockdown.

I always found plenty of stuff to disagree with Maher about, especially on vaccines, but I liked his overall show and his spectrum of guests, for the most part (his fawning interview with that idiot Milo Yiannapolis, for example, was an utter disgrace).

Might start watching him again in the run up to this election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 15, 2020, 07:43:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 06:52:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
resignation letter from an opinion writer at the NY Times

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

"But the lessons that ought to have followed the election—lessons about the importance of understanding other Americans, the necessity of resisting tribalism, and the centrality of the free exchange of ideas to a democratic society—have not been learned. Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at this paper: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else."

Max Blumenthal's take
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/ (https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/)

So she's now a Neocon? LOL

That's exactly like whats thrown around on here.....either agree with us or you're a racist a bigot a Nazi or a Neocon

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/04/bari-weiss-the-new-york-times-provocateur/amp


"If you read her work, she's a liberal humanist whose guiding principle is free expression in art, love, and discourse, something the left spent decades fighting to achieve"

Honestly, didn't know much about her before I saw your piece (I stopped watching Maher years ago as my wife doesn't like him, otherwise I might have recognized her). I've read plenty of Bret Stephens' and David Brooks' stuff on the opinion page, but hers, for whatever reason, never caught my attention.

Leaving aside whatever really happened at the Times, I think you've a fair point on the rigid conformity seemingly demanded in this age of Twitter, although I would argue that it applies across the board.

Part of the reason I do not have a Twitter account. Its basically a shallow, hit-and-run type of forum, with no proper engagement or discussion or nuance.

The demand for rigid conformity does not apply EQUALLY across the board

The WSJ has plenty of editorials by left leaning writers without their readers losing their $hit. Just look at the response to the Tom Cotton editorial at the NYTimes a few weeks ago.....completely unhinged

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2020, 08:14:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 07:43:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 06:52:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
resignation letter from an opinion writer at the NY Times

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

"But the lessons that ought to have followed the election—lessons about the importance of understanding other Americans, the necessity of resisting tribalism, and the centrality of the free exchange of ideas to a democratic society—have not been learned. Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at this paper: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else."

Max Blumenthal's take
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/ (https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/)

So she's now a Neocon? LOL

That's exactly like whats thrown around on here.....either agree with us or you're a racist a bigot a Nazi or a Neocon

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/04/bari-weiss-the-new-york-times-provocateur/amp


"If you read her work, she's a liberal humanist whose guiding principle is free expression in art, love, and discourse, something the left spent decades fighting to achieve"

Honestly, didn't know much about her before I saw your piece (I stopped watching Maher years ago as my wife doesn't like him, otherwise I might have recognized her). I've read plenty of Bret Stephens' and David Brooks' stuff on the opinion page, but hers, for whatever reason, never caught my attention.

Leaving aside whatever really happened at the Times, I think you've a fair point on the rigid conformity seemingly demanded in this age of Twitter, although I would argue that it applies across the board.

Part of the reason I do not have a Twitter account. Its basically a shallow, hit-and-run type of forum, with no proper engagement or discussion or nuance.

The demand for rigid conformity does not apply EQUALLY across the board

The WSJ has plenty of editorials by left leaning writers without their readers losing their $hit. Just look at the response to the Tom Cotton editorial at the NYTimes a few weeks ago.....completely unhinged

Anecdote whitey again, huh?

Bret Stephens is still there. David Brooks is still there. They're criticized plenty without readers "losing their shit".

How about the overall right wing movement? RINOs... politicians afraid of their life to criticize Trump instead retiring to preserve their dignity... more than a dozen presidential candidates afraid to say they'd raise taxes one dollar in exchange for every ten dollars in cuts...

There's a hell of a lot more rigidity and adhesion to orthodoxy on the right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 15, 2020, 08:35:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 08:14:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 07:43:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 06:52:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 14, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
resignation letter from an opinion writer at the NY Times

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

"But the lessons that ought to have followed the election—lessons about the importance of understanding other Americans, the necessity of resisting tribalism, and the centrality of the free exchange of ideas to a democratic society—have not been learned. Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at this paper: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else."

Max Blumenthal's take
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/ (https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/15/bari-weiss-cancel-culture-israel/)

So she's now a Neocon? LOL

That's exactly like whats thrown around on here.....either agree with us or you're a racist a bigot a Nazi or a Neocon

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/04/bari-weiss-the-new-york-times-provocateur/amp


"If you read her work, she's a liberal humanist whose guiding principle is free expression in art, love, and discourse, something the left spent decades fighting to achieve"

Honestly, didn't know much about her before I saw your piece (I stopped watching Maher years ago as my wife doesn't like him, otherwise I might have recognized her). I've read plenty of Bret Stephens' and David Brooks' stuff on the opinion page, but hers, for whatever reason, never caught my attention.

Leaving aside whatever really happened at the Times, I think you've a fair point on the rigid conformity seemingly demanded in this age of Twitter, although I would argue that it applies across the board.

Part of the reason I do not have a Twitter account. Its basically a shallow, hit-and-run type of forum, with no proper engagement or discussion or nuance.

The demand for rigid conformity does not apply EQUALLY across the board

The WSJ has plenty of editorials by left leaning writers without their readers losing their $hit. Just look at the response to the Tom Cotton editorial at the NYTimes a few weeks ago.....completely unhinged

Anecdote whitey again, huh?

Bret Stephens is still there. David Brooks is still there. They're criticized plenty without readers "losing their shit".

How about the overall right wing movement? RINOs... politicians afraid of their life to criticize Trump instead retiring to preserve their dignity... more than a dozen presidential candidates afraid to say they'd raise taxes one dollar in exchange for every ten dollars in cuts...

There's a hell of a lot more rigidity and adhesion to orthodoxy on the right.

Well now you're changing the subject....we were discussing the media

So if I understand you correctly, you believe that there are equal levels of outrage from the readers of the NY Times and the WSJ when a journalist writes a piece they feel does not align with their political views? Interesting!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2020, 08:54:07 PM
I was talking about the articles about this writer, the articles posted and Twitter. It's pretty clear from what I wrote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
As for who is more prone to outrage, NYT or WSJ readers, go ahead and tell us how you measure something like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 15, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
As for who is more prone to outrage, NYT or WSJ readers, go ahead and tell us how you measure something like that.

Easily-by counting how many people got fired, pushed out or resigned because of something they wrote, said or tweeted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.

Yeah, I'm sure he's out there right now spray painting all the Trump properties in the city (at least those that still have Trump's name on them) and wiring up One Police Plaza for demolition as we speak.

You're a wee bit obsessed with a mayor who lives in and whose power is limited to a city 3000 miles away from you.
not at all just concerned that your mayor is getting  the people he wants to protect killed with his insane policies .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on July 16, 2020, 08:24:17 AM
Given how passionate/argumentative Irish people who reside in the States get about the left/right/Republican/Democrats I can only imagine what it is going to be like as November elections approach over there.

Thats not a slight at the boys here who go hammer and tong at it on here but I am just thinking of the extremes on both sides over there - it will be worse than anything we have seen before.

No one divides opinion like Trump it seems
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 09:49:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
As for who is more prone to outrage, NYT or WSJ readers, go ahead and tell us how you measure something like that.

Easily-by counting how many people got fired, pushed out or resigned because of something they wrote, said or tweeted

I see.

So context and details and how publicized said parting-of-ways was are irrelevant?

Out of interest, what ARE these "easily" attainable figures?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.

Yeah, I'm sure he's out there right now spray painting all the Trump properties in the city (at least those that still have Trump's name on them) and wiring up One Police Plaza for demolition as we speak.

You're a wee bit obsessed with a mayor who lives in and whose power is limited to a city 3000 miles away from you.
not at all just concerned that your mayor is getting  the people he wants to protect killed with his insane policies .

Such as?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 16, 2020, 11:15:02 AM
Has it made the news over in the US about all players in the top tiers of the Football League taking a  Knee before all games and some players giving the Black Power salute?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 12:07:02 PM
Hmm, right wing opinion writer on the NYT complains about the threat to free speech (despite her having a platform that size to publicize her views....)

then resigns (she was not fired or silenced) claiming that she was intimidated into doing so....

without anyone bringing up the reason for her rise to prominence, which was leading a campaign of intimidation against professors working in the Middle East department of Columbia University because they disagreed with Israel's Palestinian policy....

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-falsely-denies-her-years-of-attacks-on-the-academic-freedom-of-arab-scholars-who-criticize-israel/ 

(Greenwald wrote this two years ago, she has been at this a long time)....

or without anyone on this site recognising her role in publicizing what she termed "the intellectual dark web", a loosely affiliated group of supposed "classical liberals" and "free-speech advocates" (Rubin, Shapiro, the Weinsteins, Jordan Peterson et al) who do nothing but avoid debate with leftists, main stream gruesome right wing bigots like Stefan Molyneux, Gavin McInnes and others, and complain about their speech being restricted despite all of them having access to huge online and broadcast platforms (including but not limited to, Fox News, CNN, HBO, Daily Wire, Joe Rogan Show....)

and at the time of her resignation, Andrew Sullivan and also, apparently, Ben Shapiro have decided to move on to non-defined new chapters in their careers. Watch out for some kind of new site, a right wing Vox perhaps, or a rival for Breitbart, but with added helpings of self pity, as they decry their speech being limited, while they rake in the corporate dollars and have unlimited scope for regurgitating their right wing dross into the MSM.

The right wing grift is an amazing one, and would almost make you want to applaud their stunning mendacity. It's a nice gig if you can get it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 12:32:38 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 12:07:02 PM
Hmm, right wing opinion writer on the NYT complains about the threat to free speech (despite her having a platform that size to publicize her views....)

then resigns (she was not fired or silenced) claiming that she was intimidated into doing so....

without anyone bringing up the reason for her rise to prominence, which was leading a campaign of intimidation against professors working in the Middle East department of Columbia University because they disagreed with Israel's Palestinian policy....

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-falsely-denies-her-years-of-attacks-on-the-academic-freedom-of-arab-scholars-who-criticize-israel/ 

(Greenwald wrote this two years ago, she has been at this a long time)....

or without anyone on this site recognising her role in publicizing what she termed "the intellectual dark web", a loosely affiliated group of supposed "classical liberals" and "free-speech advocates" (Rubin, Shapiro, the Weinsteins, Jordan Peterson et al) who do nothing but avoid debate with leftists, main stream gruesome right wing bigots like Stefan Molyneux, Gavin McInnes and others, and complain about their speech being restricted despite all of them having access to huge online and broadcast platforms (including but not limited to, Fox News, CNN, HBO, Daily Wire, Joe Rogan Show....)

and at the time of her resignation, Andrew Sullivan and also, apparently, Ben Shapiro have decided to move on to non-defined new chapters in their careers. Watch out for some kind of new site, a right wing Vox perhaps, or a rival for Breitbart, but with added helpings of self pity, as they decry their speech being limited, while they rake in the corporate dollars and have unlimited scope for regurgitating their right wing dross into the MSM.

The right wing grift is an amazing one, and would almost make you want to applaud their stunning mendacity. It's a nice gig if you can get it.
That Bari Weiss one is nuts. I was going to say she's a professional troll, but I think she actually believes her nonsense.

Ironic you mention Glenn Greenwald as he's gone off the reservation in not dissimilar similar manner in recent times along with Matt Taibbi.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
I disagree with Greenwald on a lot, particularly his attitude towards Putin, but his work on Lula's imprisonment in Brazil, and stuff like the article above really show his forensic skills as a reporter.

I haven't been following Taaibi recently, where is his head at?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 01:17:28 PM
LOL

Even Bill Maher thinks the bias at The NY Times is off the hook, but keep it up guys

That's the head in the sand attitude that got Trump elected in the first place

https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1283120122521989120

"Resignation Letter — Bari Weiss.    As a longtime reader who has in recent years read the paper with increasing dismay over just the reasons outlined here, I hope this letter finds receptive ears at the paper. But for the reasons outlined here,I doubt"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 01:37:33 PM
And someone asked about Matt Talibbi

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/hilltv/rising/502971-taibbi-on-cancel-culture-and-the-cotton-op-ed%3fampP

Here's what he said about the Tom Cotton article which led to the firing/resignation/demotion of senior NY Times editorial staff

"What it really accomplishes is it puts your readers in the dark about what a huge segment of the country is thinking, and that defeats the mission to me of the news in general," he said."

But....it's a free country .....believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 02:01:10 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
I disagree with Greenwald on a lot, particularly his attitude towards Putin, but his work on Lula's imprisonment in Brazil, and stuff like the article above really show his forensic skills as a reporter.

I haven't been following Taaibi recently, where is his head at?
Greenwald on Brazilian politics and Greenwald on US politics are like two entirely different people. He should stick to Brazilian stuff because on US politics he's become the worst kind of bad faith contrarian and seems far more interested in fighting petty Twitter wars than anything else. He's pretty much gone in a right-wing contrarian direction, and his writing style has degenerated into that of an online, pro Trump, pro-Russia troll, because he decided four years ago that Trump had nothing to do with Russia, and has spent those years desperately searching for things that backs up the wrong position he took at that time, rather than admit he was wrong. His descent into madness has been Graham Linehan-esque. Taibbi has done the same thing because he also took the same wrong position and cannot let go of it out of sheer pig-headedness.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
As for who is more prone to outrage, NYT or WSJ readers, go ahead and tell us how you measure something like that.

Easily-by counting how many people got fired, pushed out or resigned because of something they wrote, said or tweeted

Did you get those figures yet?

https://thebulwark.com/bari-weiss-was-too-honest-for-the-new-york-times/ (https://thebulwark.com/bari-weiss-was-too-honest-for-the-new-york-times/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 16, 2020, 11:15:02 AM
Has it made the news over in the US about all players in the top tiers of the Football League taking a  Knee before all games and some players giving the Black Power salute?
not a word about it , how long will that continue? and I wonder have any of the players read the goals of blm , they won't be getting 200k a week if the communists take over .
It's going to take some balls for a player to stand up before a game .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 16, 2020, 11:15:02 AM
Has it made the news over in the US about all players in the top tiers of the Football League taking a  Knee before all games and some players giving the Black Power salute?
not a word about it , how long will that continue? and I wonder have any of the players read the goals of blm , they won't be getting 200k a week if the communists take over .
It's going to take some balls for a player to stand up before a game .

MLK was dismissed by many on the right as a communist.

Luckily, "the commies are coming" hysteria doesn't have as much impact on most people as it does on paranoid, reactionary, conservative Americans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 16, 2020, 11:15:02 AM
Has it made the news over in the US about all players in the top tiers of the Football League taking a  Knee before all games and some players giving the Black Power salute?
not a word about it , how long will that continue? and I wonder have any of the players read the goals of blm , they won't be getting 200k a week if the communists take over .
It's going to take some balls for a player to stand up before a game .

MLK was dismissed by many on the right as a communist.

Luckily, "the commies are coming" hysteria doesn't have as much impact on most people as it does on paranoid, reactionary, conservative Americans.

Have you read about the tapes which are under seal at the National Archives?

Supposedly MLK is heard laughing and taunting as a friend of his raped a woman

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 02:37:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 16, 2020, 11:15:02 AM
Has it made the news over in the US about all players in the top tiers of the Football League taking a  Knee before all games and some players giving the Black Power salute?
not a word about it , how long will that continue? and I wonder have any of the players read the goals of blm , they won't be getting 200k a week if the communists take over .
It's going to take some balls for a player to stand up before a game .

MLK was dismissed by many on the right as a communist.

Luckily, "the commies are coming" hysteria doesn't have as much impact on most people as it does on paranoid, reactionary, conservative Americans.
What is classed as "conservatism" in America bears no relation to real conservatism. "Conservatism" in America is basically a revolutionary nihiilist project driven by Charles Koch/James Buchanan anarcho-capitalist ideology, which desires an obscenely rich oligarchy which controls everything and Lord Of The Flies type dystopia for everybody else.

Real conservatives would be strong on environmental matters, regulation and pro-good public services.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 02:42:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
As for who is more prone to outrage, NYT or WSJ readers, go ahead and tell us how you measure something like that.

Easily-by counting how many people got fired, pushed out or resigned because of something they wrote, said or tweeted

Did you get those figures yet?

https://thebulwark.com/bari-weiss-was-too-honest-for-the-new-york-times/ (https://thebulwark.com/bari-weiss-was-too-honest-for-the-new-york-times/)

Actually I looked and there were a bunch of people who resigned/left/were fired from the NY Times editorial pages over philosophical differences (ie weren't left wing enough for the readership) but interestingly enough I couldn't find one single such public parting of ways at the WSJ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:44:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 02:42:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 15, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
As for who is more prone to outrage, NYT or WSJ readers, go ahead and tell us how you measure something like that.

Easily-by counting how many people got fired, pushed out or resigned because of something they wrote, said or tweeted

Did you get those figures yet?

https://thebulwark.com/bari-weiss-was-too-honest-for-the-new-york-times/ (https://thebulwark.com/bari-weiss-was-too-honest-for-the-new-york-times/)

Actually I looked and there were a bunch of people who resigned/left/were fired from the NY Times editorial pages over philosophical differences (ie weren't left wing enough for the readership) but interestingly enough I couldn't find one single such public parting of ways at the WSJ

Q.E.D., huh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 16, 2020, 11:15:02 AM
Has it made the news over in the US about all players in the top tiers of the Football League taking a  Knee before all games and some players giving the Black Power salute?
not a word about it , how long will that continue? and I wonder have any of the players read the goals of blm , they won't be getting 200k a week if the communists take over .
It's going to take some balls for a player to stand up before a game .

MLK was dismissed by many on the right as a communist.

Luckily, "the commies are coming" hysteria doesn't have as much impact on most people as it does on paranoid, reactionary, conservative Americans.

Have you read about the tapes which are under seal at the National Archives?

Supposedly MLK is heard laughing and taunting as a friend of his raped a woman

Yes, I've heard of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 16, 2020, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 16, 2020, 11:15:02 AM
Has it made the news over in the US about all players in the top tiers of the Football League taking a  Knee before all games and some players giving the Black Power salute?
not a word about it , how long will that continue? and I wonder have any of the players read the goals of blm , they won't be getting 200k a week if the communists take over .
It's going to take some balls for a player to stand up before a game .

MLK was dismissed by many on the right as a communist.

Luckily, "the commies are coming" hysteria doesn't have as much impact on most people as it does on paranoid, reactionary, conservative Americans.

Of course gmac didn't see them watching Fox News - but they did make it onto the news programs here when it was first done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Holy $hit....did anyone see this beating....a 3 year old got a deliberate kick in the head

https://mobile.twitter.com/RayGarciahawaii/status/1283302899469213696
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 01:17:28 PM
LOL

Even Bill Maher thinks the bias at The NY Times is off the hook, but keep it up guys

That's the head in the sand attitude that got Trump elected in the first place

https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1283120122521989120

"Resignation Letter — Bari Weiss.    As a longtime reader who has in recent years read the paper with increasing dismay over just the reasons outlined here, I hope this letter finds receptive ears at the paper. But for the reasons outlined here,I doubt"

I don't get to vote in the US, more's the pity. But making a free speech martyr out of a journalist who a) resigned rather than being fired and b) made her name by campaigning to have academics fired because their views did not mirror hers - makes you rather more of an ostrich than me Whitey. But that is just more of the attitude that got Trump elected in the first place, but won't help him in this cycle.

As for why more journos would leave NYT over philosophical differences than WSJ - well that is obvious - they hire a more diverse staff at NYT in the hope of stimulating debate (unadvisedly in the case of Weiss and Stephens, who are only trolls) whereas WSJ has a much more defined conservative bent, and they hire along that line, hence less disagreements.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 03:19:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Holy $hit....did anyone see this beating....a 3 year old got a deliberate kick in the head

https://mobile.twitter.com/RayGarciahawaii/status/1283302899469213696
no cops needed, a social worker will be out in 2 weeks, thank you have a great day .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:21:52 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 01:17:28 PM
LOL

Even Bill Maher thinks the bias at The NY Times is off the hook, but keep it up guys

That's the head in the sand attitude that got Trump elected in the first place

https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1283120122521989120

"Resignation Letter — Bari Weiss.    As a longtime reader who has in recent years read the paper with increasing dismay over just the reasons outlined here, I hope this letter finds receptive ears at the paper. But for the reasons outlined here,I doubt"

I don't get to vote in the US, more's the pity. But making a free speech martyr out of a journalist who a) resigned rather than being fired and b) made her name by campaigning to have academics fired because their views did not mirror hers - makes you rather more of an ostrich than me Whitey. But that is just more of the attitude that got Trump elected in the first place, but won't help him in this cycle.

As for why more journos would leave NYT over philosophical differences than WSJ - well that is obvious - they hire a more diverse staff at NYT in the hope of stimulating debate (unadvisedly in the case of Weiss and Stephens, who are only trolls) whereas WSJ has a much more defined conservative bent, and they hire along that line, hence less disagreements.


So are Matt Talibbi and Bill Maher both wrong about the New York Times?

WSJ has plenty of Op Ed's written by liberals-their readership just don't go in meltdown mode every time someone writes something they disagree with.

NY Times is the left wing version of Fox News. It's subscribers are a bunch of sheeple who vilify anyone who holds opinions different to themselves
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 03:24:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:21:52 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 01:17:28 PM
LOL

Even Bill Maher thinks the bias at The NY Times is off the hook, but keep it up guys

That's the head in the sand attitude that got Trump elected in the first place

https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1283120122521989120

"Resignation Letter — Bari Weiss.    As a longtime reader who has in recent years read the paper with increasing dismay over just the reasons outlined here, I hope this letter finds receptive ears at the paper. But for the reasons outlined here,I doubt"

I don't get to vote in the US, more's the pity. But making a free speech martyr out of a journalist who a) resigned rather than being fired and b) made her name by campaigning to have academics fired because their views did not mirror hers - makes you rather more of an ostrich than me Whitey. But that is just more of the attitude that got Trump elected in the first place, but won't help him in this cycle.

As for why more journos would leave NYT over philosophical differences than WSJ - well that is obvious - they hire a more diverse staff at NYT in the hope of stimulating debate (unadvisedly in the case of Weiss and Stephens, who are only trolls) whereas WSJ has a much more defined conservative bent, and they hire along that line, hence less disagreements.


So are Matt Talibbi and Bill Maher both wrong about the New York Times?

WSJ has plenty of Op Ed's written by liberals-their readership just don't go in meltdown mode every time someone writes something they disagree with.

NY Times is the left wing version of Fox News. It's subscribers are a bunch of sheeple who vilify anyone who holds opinions different to themselves

So Times readers are up in arms every week about the regular pieces from the likes of Brooks and Stephens?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Holy $hit....did anyone see this beating....a 3 year old got a deliberate kick in the head

https://mobile.twitter.com/RayGarciahawaii/status/1283302899469213696

That's appalling.

The political angle is...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:21:52 PM

NY Times is the left wing version of Fox News. It's subscribers are a bunch of sheeple who vilify anyone who holds opinions different to themselves
Ah would ya look at that. He said "sheeple".  While complaining about those who hold opinions he doesn't like. ;D

Qanon Qanon Qanon!!!

Get some self awareness, m8.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 03:33:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Holy $hit....did anyone see this beating....a 3 year old got a deliberate kick in the head

https://mobile.twitter.com/RayGarciahawaii/status/1283302899469213696

That's appalling.

The political angle is...?
The political angle is that the white supremacist has reached the stage where's gone so round the twist that he's desperately scouring the internet for videos of black people behaving badly in an effort to portray all black people as criminals and degenerates.

That genuinely is where white, right-wing America has ended up.

Scientology is a haven of diverse debate compared to this cult.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 03:33:32 PM
Gail Collins has been doing a weekly back-and-forth column in the Times with, first, David Brooks, and lately, Bret Stephens, for years now.

That must really get the sheeple frothing at the mouth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 03:41:49 PM
"Wake up, SHEEPLE!"

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQVd6Aci5H1u9KSMY1Pz2ki1_GpSs4hPEQF1g&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Holy $hit....did anyone see this beating....a 3 year old got a deliberate kick in the head

https://mobile.twitter.com/RayGarciahawaii/status/1283302899469213696

That's appalling.

The political angle is...?

Crime in the big cities is on an a significant upward trajectory and many Democrats are calling for the police to be defunded and other people are calling for the police to be disbanded.

Who would you call if your wife/sister/mother was taking a beating like that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 03:33:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Holy $hit....did anyone see this beating....a 3 year old got a deliberate kick in the head

https://mobile.twitter.com/RayGarciahawaii/status/1283302899469213696

That's appalling.

The political angle is...?
The political angle is that the white supremacist has reached the stage where's gone so round the twist that he's desperately scouring the internet for videos of black people behaving badly in an effort to portray all black people as criminals and degenerates.

That genuinely is where white, right-wing America has ended up.

Scientology is a haven of diverse debate compared to this cult.

"Desperately scouring"????.....it was all over twitter yesterday

I see lots of crazy stuff on the internet but I have never seen a 3 or 4 year old take an intentional  kick to the face. You guys are all for defunding the police, but it's people like that poor woman and her child who are the ones who are going to suffer. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 03:57:32 PM
"Sheeple..."
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 04:00:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Holy $hit....did anyone see this beating....a 3 year old got a deliberate kick in the head

https://mobile.twitter.com/RayGarciahawaii/status/1283302899469213696

That's appalling.

The political angle is...?

Crime in the big cities is on an a significant upward trajectory and many Democrats are calling for the police to be defunded and other people are calling for the police to be disbanded.

Who would you call if your wife/sister/mother was taking a beating like that?

Is that from a big city?

Did the presence of police in that city stop that beating?

Are those who are calling for the defunding of police suggesting that brutal beatings like this be indulged and not pursued by the police?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:21:52 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 01:17:28 PM
LOL

Even Bill Maher thinks the bias at The NY Times is off the hook, but keep it up guys

That's the head in the sand attitude that got Trump elected in the first place

https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1283120122521989120

"Resignation Letter — Bari Weiss.    As a longtime reader who has in recent years read the paper with increasing dismay over just the reasons outlined here, I hope this letter finds receptive ears at the paper. But for the reasons outlined here,I doubt"

I don't get to vote in the US, more's the pity. But making a free speech martyr out of a journalist who a) resigned rather than being fired and b) made her name by campaigning to have academics fired because their views did not mirror hers - makes you rather more of an ostrich than me Whitey. But that is just more of the attitude that got Trump elected in the first place, but won't help him in this cycle.

As for why more journos would leave NYT over philosophical differences than WSJ - well that is obvious - they hire a more diverse staff at NYT in the hope of stimulating debate (unadvisedly in the case of Weiss and Stephens, who are only trolls) whereas WSJ has a much more defined conservative bent, and they hire along that line, hence less disagreements.


So are Matt Talibbi and Bill Maher both wrong about the New York Times?

WSJ has plenty of Op Ed's written by liberals-their readership just don't go in meltdown mode every time someone writes something they disagree with.

NY Times is the left wing version of Fox News. It's subscribers are a bunch of sheeple who vilify anyone who holds opinions different to themselves

Yes, I think they are.

Amazingly enough, just because some people share some of the same views I have, I don't have to agree with them on everything.

And I subscribe to the NYT app, and am regularly annoyed by some of the views I see posited there.

I think they are far too soft on the right and Trump, especially their sub editors and headline writers.

In the pursuit of balance they often eschew telling the truth, like when they don't describe Trumps lies as lies.

Although, unlike Fox News, they regularly hire and publish contributors with diametrically opposed views to any progressive consensus.

Which has its drawbacks as I have stated, but in general is healthy for an institution like it. Just unfortunate that some of those hires, like Weiss and Stephens, are such whiny snowflakes, and are unwilling to participate in the free and robust exchange of ideas.

But I'm just a sheeple, what would I know?


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 04:19:56 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 03:21:52 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 01:17:28 PM
LOL

Even Bill Maher thinks the bias at The NY Times is off the hook, but keep it up guys

That's the head in the sand attitude that got Trump elected in the first place

https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1283120122521989120

"Resignation Letter — Bari Weiss.    As a longtime reader who has in recent years read the paper with increasing dismay over just the reasons outlined here, I hope this letter finds receptive ears at the paper. But for the reasons outlined here,I doubt"

I don't get to vote in the US, more's the pity. But making a free speech martyr out of a journalist who a) resigned rather than being fired and b) made her name by campaigning to have academics fired because their views did not mirror hers - makes you rather more of an ostrich than me Whitey. But that is just more of the attitude that got Trump elected in the first place, but won't help him in this cycle.

As for why more journos would leave NYT over philosophical differences than WSJ - well that is obvious - they hire a more diverse staff at NYT in the hope of stimulating debate (unadvisedly in the case of Weiss and Stephens, who are only trolls) whereas WSJ has a much more defined conservative bent, and they hire along that line, hence less disagreements.


So are Matt Talibbi and Bill Maher both wrong about the New York Times?

WSJ has plenty of Op Ed's written by liberals-their readership just don't go in meltdown mode every time someone writes something they disagree with.

NY Times is the left wing version of Fox News. It's subscribers are a bunch of sheeple who vilify anyone who holds opinions different to themselves

Yes, I think they are.

Amazingly enough, just because some people share some of the same views I have, I don't have to agree with them on everything.

And I subscribe to the NYT app, and am regularly annoyed by some of the views I see posited there.

I think they are far too soft on the right and Trump, especially their sub editors and headline writers.

In the pursuit of balance they often eschew telling the truth, like when they don't describe Trumps lies as lies.

Although, unlike Fox News, they regularly hire and publish contributors with diametrically opposed views to any progressive consensus.

Which has its drawbacks as I have stated, but in general is healthy for an institution like it. Just unfortunate that some of those hires, like Weiss and Stephens, are such whiny snowflakes, and are unwilling to participate in the free and robust exchange of ideas.

But I'm just a sheeple, what would I know?


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Fantastic .....Joe by 10 then
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 05:37:53 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109859223_925822837922757_1324891983215650844_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=3EhCkioJeJQAX_OVrev&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=5c78a9452a8e91689c2dad3708dfb2d5&oe=5F373F29)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 05:40:13 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 16, 2020, 12:07:02 PM
Hmm, right wing opinion writer on the NYT complains about the threat to free speech (despite her having a platform that size to publicize her views....)

then resigns (she was not fired or silenced) claiming that she was intimidated into doing so....

without anyone bringing up the reason for her rise to prominence, which was leading a campaign of intimidation against professors working in the Middle East department of Columbia University because they disagreed with Israel's Palestinian policy....

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-falsely-denies-her-years-of-attacks-on-the-academic-freedom-of-arab-scholars-who-criticize-israel/ 

(Greenwald wrote this two years ago, she has been at this a long time)....

or without anyone on this site recognising her role in publicizing what she termed "the intellectual dark web", a loosely affiliated group of supposed "classical liberals" and "free-speech advocates" (Rubin, Shapiro, the Weinsteins, Jordan Peterson et al) who do nothing but avoid debate with leftists, main stream gruesome right wing bigots like Stefan Molyneux, Gavin McInnes and others, and complain about their speech being restricted despite all of them having access to huge online and broadcast platforms (including but not limited to, Fox News, CNN, HBO, Daily Wire, Joe Rogan Show....)

and at the time of her resignation, Andrew Sullivan and also, apparently, Ben Shapiro have decided to move on to non-defined new chapters in their careers. Watch out for some kind of new site, a right wing Vox perhaps, or a rival for Breitbart, but with added helpings of self pity, as they decry their speech being limited, while they rake in the corporate dollars and have unlimited scope for regurgitating their right wing dross into the MSM.

The right wing grift is an amazing one, and would almost make you want to applaud their stunning mendacity. It's a nice gig if you can get it.

Gotta hand it to Fox News and the like. They're a well oiled propaganda delivery system, punctuated by moments of self-pitying complaints about the "mainstream media" while simultaneously bragging about their stellar ratings.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 07:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.

Yeah, I'm sure he's out there right now spray painting all the Trump properties in the city (at least those that still have Trump's name on them) and wiring up One Police Plaza for demolition as we speak.

You're a wee bit obsessed with a mayor who lives in and whose power is limited to a city 3000 miles away from you.
not at all just concerned that your mayor is getting  the people he wants to protect killed with his insane policies .

Such as?
disbanding under cover crime units
Releasing every prisoner he can .
The police turned their back on him at some function or other so he's not their friend and a 250% increase in gun crime should be alarming to you and every logically thinking resident of nyc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 07:19:17 PM
Bill Stepien, who was ousted over bridgegate (the criminal closure of lanes to punish someone Chris "all-you-can-eat" Christie didn't like), is now in charge of Trump's reelection campaign. If you can call it a campaign. It's just a big criminal enterprise.

Oh boy, Obama barely had enough time in his two terms to repair the damage done by Bush. Fixing the mess Trump has made is going to take a decade or more, and the dead will never be brought back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 07:26:45 PM
LAPD officers have been inflating their gang-related numbers by putting innocent people into their gang database. Now the database is useless.

I await the conservative explanation for how this is the fault of the "liburls" with great interest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 07:35:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 07:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.

Yeah, I'm sure he's out there right now spray painting all the Trump properties in the city (at least those that still have Trump's name on them) and wiring up One Police Plaza for demolition as we speak.

You're a wee bit obsessed with a mayor who lives in and whose power is limited to a city 3000 miles away from you.
not at all just concerned that your mayor is getting  the people he wants to protect killed with his insane policies .

Such as?
disbanding under cover crime units
Releasing every prisoner he can .
The police turned their back on him at some function or other so he's not their friend and a 250% increase in gun crime should be alarming to you and every logically thinking resident of nyc

The NY Post, of all places, criticized De Blasio last week for defending the NYPD's claims that bail reform and prisoner releases amid the COVID outbreak had contributed to the upsurge in crime.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/)
https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/)

Crime is increasing all over the place. Its hardly a De Blasio issue.

I don't give a f**k if the police turned their back on him. The criticism they were getting at that time (the Eric Garner murder) was perfectly justified. That two of their members were gunned down by some nut in the aftermath was hardly De Blasio's fault. The NY police unions think that they and their members are completely above criticism and oversight and throw their toys out of the pram, no matter who the mayor is, if they so much as glance in their direction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 07:37:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 07:19:17 PM
Bill Stepien, who was ousted over bridgegate (the criminal closure of lanes to punish someone Chris "all-you-can-eat" Christie didn't like), is now in charge of Trump's reelection campaign. If you can call it a campaign. It's just a big criminal enterprise.

Oh boy, Obama barely had enough time in his two terms to repair the damage done by Bush. Fixing the mess Trump has made is going to take a decade or more, and the dead will never be brought back.

Trump appears to be blaming Parscale for his polling woes.

Nothing to do with his own appalling performance and rhetoric!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 16, 2020, 07:40:05 PM
So what about Trump trying to stop hospitals from reporting COVID 19 data to the CDC but instead to the HHS... with the threat being no federal funding coming their way if they try to report to HHS and CDC.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 16, 2020, 07:40:05 PM
So what about Trump trying to stop hospitals from reporting COVID 19 data to the CDC but instead to the HHS... with the threat being no federal funding coming their way if they try to report to HHS and CDC.

Have to keep a tight leash on that information.

Can have spiraling numbers jeopardizing re-election plans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 07:35:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 07:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.

Yeah, I'm sure he's out there right now spray painting all the Trump properties in the city (at least those that still have Trump's name on them) and wiring up One Police Plaza for demolition as we speak.

You're a wee bit obsessed with a mayor who lives in and whose power is limited to a city 3000 miles away from you.
not at all just concerned that your mayor is getting  the people he wants to protect killed with his insane policies .

Such as?
disbanding under cover crime units
Releasing every prisoner he can .
The police turned their back on him at some function or other so he's not their friend and a 250% increase in gun crime should be alarming to you and every logically thinking resident of nyc

The NY Post, of all places, criticized De Blasio last week for defending the NYPD's claims that bail reform and prisoner releases amid the COVID outbreak had contributed to the upsurge in crime.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/)
https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/)

Crime is increasing all over the place. Its hardly a De Blasio issue.

I don't give a f**k if the police turned their back on him. The criticism they were getting at that time (the Eric Garner murder) was perfectly justified. That two of their members were gunned down by some nut in the aftermath was hardly De Blasio's fault. The NY police unions think that they and their members are completely above criticism and oversight and throw their toys out of the pram, no matter who the mayor is, if they so much as glance in their direction.

J70-I looked at the numbers

30 years ago there were 2,200 murders in NYC

Half of the neighborhoods where these woke millennial ar$eholes are living were no go areas-day or night for either a white person or a person of Color.

Giuliani and others brought the city back from the brink with an aggressive approach to crime. I pity anyone who owns property there today.....it's going to go downhill rapid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:01:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 07:35:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 07:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.

Yeah, I'm sure he's out there right now spray painting all the Trump properties in the city (at least those that still have Trump's name on them) and wiring up One Police Plaza for demolition as we speak.

You're a wee bit obsessed with a mayor who lives in and whose power is limited to a city 3000 miles away from you.
not at all just concerned that your mayor is getting  the people he wants to protect killed with his insane policies .

Such as?
disbanding under cover crime units
Releasing every prisoner he can .
The police turned their back on him at some function or other so he's not their friend and a 250% increase in gun crime should be alarming to you and every logically thinking resident of nyc

The NY Post, of all places, criticized De Blasio last week for defending the NYPD's claims that bail reform and prisoner releases amid the COVID outbreak had contributed to the upsurge in crime.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/)
https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/)

Crime is increasing all over the place. Its hardly a De Blasio issue.

I don't give a f**k if the police turned their back on him. The criticism they were getting at that time (the Eric Garner murder) was perfectly justified. That two of their members were gunned down by some nut in the aftermath was hardly De Blasio's fault. The NY police unions think that they and their members are completely above criticism and oversight and throw their toys out of the pram, no matter who the mayor is, if they so much as glance in their direction.

J70-I looked at the numbers

30 years ago there were 2,200 murders in NYC

Half of the neighborhoods where these woke millennial ar$eholes are living were no go areas-day or night for either a white person or a person of Color.

Giuliani and others brought the city back from the brink with an aggressive approach to crime. I pity anyone who owns property there today.....it's going to go downhill rapid

I better sell up then I guess.

Or maybe I'll wait and see what the end of COVID and the (hopefully) resurging economy and employment bring.

Giuliani was great for a time... unless you were one of the innocent black or hispanic men who couldn't walk down the street without getting repeatedly harassed by the cops or worse.

Besides, there are plenty of other factors, in addition to increased policing, which are thought to have had a significant effect on the dramatic drop in crime rates in places like NYC, including, for better or worse, the availability of abortion, and the ban on lead in residential paint and petrol.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on July 16, 2020, 08:20:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 07:35:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 07:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.

Yeah, I'm sure he's out there right now spray painting all the Trump properties in the city (at least those that still have Trump's name on them) and wiring up One Police Plaza for demolition as we speak.

You're a wee bit obsessed with a mayor who lives in and whose power is limited to a city 3000 miles away from you.
not at all just concerned that your mayor is getting  the people he wants to protect killed with his insane policies .

Such as?
disbanding under cover crime units
Releasing every prisoner he can .
The police turned their back on him at some function or other so he's not their friend and a 250% increase in gun crime should be alarming to you and every logically thinking resident of nyc

The NY Post, of all places, criticized De Blasio last week for defending the NYPD's claims that bail reform and prisoner releases amid the COVID outbreak had contributed to the upsurge in crime.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/)
https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/)

Crime is increasing all over the place. Its hardly a De Blasio issue.

I don't give a f**k if the police turned their back on him. The criticism they were getting at that time (the Eric Garner murder) was perfectly justified. That two of their members were gunned down by some nut in the aftermath was hardly De Blasio's fault. The NY police unions think that they and their members are completely above criticism and oversight and throw their toys out of the pram, no matter who the mayor is, if they so much as glance in their direction.

J70-I looked at the numbers

30 years ago there were 2,200 murders in NYC

Half of the neighborhoods where these woke millennial ar$eholes are living were no go areas-day or night for either a white person or a person of Color.

Giuliani and others brought the city back from the brink with an aggressive approach to crime. I pity anyone who owns property there today.....it's going to go downhill rapid

You're giving Giuliani way too much credit

https://www.wbur.org/npr/500104506/broken-windows-policing-and-the-origins-of-stop-and-frisk-and-how-it-went-wrong
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 08:29:31 PM
The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools: "The science should not stand in the way of this."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 08:31:41 PM
We've passed the 20,000 mark. 20,000 false or misleading statements from the President. A record-breaking liar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:36:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 08:29:31 PM
The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools: "The science should not stand in the way of this."
if trump really wants the schools reopened he should just say I would prefer them to stay closed ,that would put the powers that be in a conundrum .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 08:45:13 PM
Quote from: lenny on July 16, 2020, 08:20:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 07:35:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 07:09:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 14, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
17 people shot in nyc in one day ,wonder is de blassio worried about this or is he planning another painting project.

Yeah, I'm sure he's out there right now spray painting all the Trump properties in the city (at least those that still have Trump's name on them) and wiring up One Police Plaza for demolition as we speak.

You're a wee bit obsessed with a mayor who lives in and whose power is limited to a city 3000 miles away from you.
not at all just concerned that your mayor is getting  the people he wants to protect killed with his insane policies .

Such as?
disbanding under cover crime units
Releasing every prisoner he can .
The police turned their back on him at some function or other so he's not their friend and a 250% increase in gun crime should be alarming to you and every logically thinking resident of nyc

The NY Post, of all places, criticized De Blasio last week for defending the NYPD's claims that bail reform and prisoner releases amid the COVID outbreak had contributed to the upsurge in crime.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/de-blasio-defends-nypds-data-that-debunked-bail-reform-claims/)
https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypds-own-stats-debunk-claims-about-bail-reform-link-to-shootings/)

Crime is increasing all over the place. Its hardly a De Blasio issue.

I don't give a f**k if the police turned their back on him. The criticism they were getting at that time (the Eric Garner murder) was perfectly justified. That two of their members were gunned down by some nut in the aftermath was hardly De Blasio's fault. The NY police unions think that they and their members are completely above criticism and oversight and throw their toys out of the pram, no matter who the mayor is, if they so much as glance in their direction.

J70-I looked at the numbers

30 years ago there were 2,200 murders in NYC

Half of the neighborhoods where these woke millennial ar$eholes are living were no go areas-day or night for either a white person or a person of Color.

Giuliani and others brought the city back from the brink with an aggressive approach to crime. I pity anyone who owns property there today.....it's going to go downhill rapid

You're giving Giuliani way too much credit

https://www.wbur.org/npr/500104506/broken-windows-policing-and-the-origins-of-stop-and-frisk-and-how-it-went-wrong

Well obviously the left would disagree but there's plenty of counter evidence to prove it worked

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1151121

It's going to get very interesting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:36:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 08:29:31 PM
The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools: "The science should not stand in the way of this."
if trump really wants the schools reopened he should just say I would prefer them to stay closed ,that would put the powers that be in a conundrum .

That's your opinion?

That the hesitancy and concerns about opening schools is all about Trump?

Not that he's being a f**king bellend, concerned only for how it affects him, as usual, regarding a legitimate and well founded concern?

Do you have kids?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
Stats for nyc for first 6 months of the year 96% of victims of shootings are black or Hispanic .
89% of all murder victims are black of Hispanic , policies are working out great for minorities.
Compassion with order is a phrase a lot of these liberal city politicians need to consider .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 16, 2020, 08:53:57 PM
How do you post a photograph?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:56:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 16, 2020, 08:53:57 PM
How do you post a photograph?

Right click on the photo, copy the image address and post the link in the space between [ img ]  and [ / img ]  which will come up by clicking on the "insert image" button above the emoticons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
Stats for nyc for first 6 months of the year 96% of victims of shootings are black or Hispanic .
89% of all murder victims are black of Hispanic , policies are working out great for minorities.
Compassion with order is a phrase a lot of these liberal city politicians need to consider .
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:36:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 08:29:31 PM
The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools: "The science should not stand in the way of this."
if trump really wants the schools reopened he should just say I would prefer them to stay closed ,that would put the powers that be in a conundrum .

That's your opinion?

That the hesitancy and concerns about opening schools is all about Trump?

Not that he's being a f**king bellend, concerned only for how it affects him, as usual, regarding a legitimate and well founded concern?

Do you have kids?
yes I do and I would send them back tomorrow , 0 deaths in 0>17 year olds in California that's what the science is telling me . The damage to behavior , mental health and loss  of learning may be permanent. Of course people are concerned but if trump was smart he would throw them a curve ball every now and then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
Stats for nyc for first 6 months of the year 96% of victims of shootings are black or Hispanic .
89% of all murder victims are black of Hispanic , policies are working out great for minorities.
Compassion with order is a phrase a lot of these liberal city politicians need to consider .
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:36:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 08:29:31 PM
The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools: "The science should not stand in the way of this."
if trump really wants the schools reopened he should just say I would prefer them to stay closed ,that would put the powers that be in a conundrum .

That's your opinion?

That the hesitancy and concerns about opening schools is all about Trump?

Not that he's being a f**king bellend, concerned only for how it affects him, as usual, regarding a legitimate and well founded concern?

Do you have kids?
yes I do and I would send them back tomorrow , 0 deaths in 0>17 year olds in California that's what the science is telling me . The damage to behavior , mental health and loss  of learning may be permanent. Of course people are concerned but if trump was smart he would throw them a curve ball every now and then.

Or he could behave like a president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
Stats for nyc for first 6 months of the year 96% of victims of shootings are black or Hispanic .
89% of all murder victims are black of Hispanic , policies are working out great for minorities.
Compassion with order is a phrase a lot of these liberal city politicians need to consider .
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:36:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 08:29:31 PM
The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools: "The science should not stand in the way of this."
if trump really wants the schools reopened he should just say I would prefer them to stay closed ,that would put the powers that be in a conundrum .

That's your opinion?

That the hesitancy and concerns about opening schools is all about Trump?

Not that he's being a f**king bellend, concerned only for how it affects him, as usual, regarding a legitimate and well founded concern?

Do you have kids?
yes I do and I would send them back tomorrow , 0 deaths in 0>17 year olds in California that's what the science is telling me . The damage to behavior , mental health and loss  of learning may be permanent. Of course people are concerned but if trump was smart he would throw them a curve ball every now and then.

Or he could behave like a president.
and ask yourself j70 who will suffer the most from the school closures the very kids liberals think they are protecting , there seems to be a trend here .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
Stats for nyc for first 6 months of the year 96% of victims of shootings are black or Hispanic .
89% of all murder victims are black of Hispanic , policies are working out great for minorities.
Compassion with order is a phrase a lot of these liberal city politicians need to consider .

Um, when liberals raise concerns about the problems faced by minorities, the right brands us as "Social Justice Warriors" or SJWs as if it's some sort of label of mockery.

When conservatives raise "concerns" about the problems faced by minorities it's always to have a dig at left-leaning politicians or to change the subject from some inconvenient topic. Your crocodile tears are noted. Come back to me when you're actually concerned about black or hispanic murder victims and not just using them as a stick to beat the left with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 09:29:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
Stats for nyc for first 6 months of the year 96% of victims of shootings are black or Hispanic .
89% of all murder victims are black of Hispanic , policies are working out great for minorities.
Compassion with order is a phrase a lot of these liberal city politicians need to consider .
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:36:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 08:29:31 PM
The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools: "The science should not stand in the way of this."
if trump really wants the schools reopened he should just say I would prefer them to stay closed ,that would put the powers that be in a conundrum .

That's your opinion?

That the hesitancy and concerns about opening schools is all about Trump?

Not that he's being a f**king bellend, concerned only for how it affects him, as usual, regarding a legitimate and well founded concern?

Do you have kids?
yes I do and I would send them back tomorrow , 0 deaths in 0>17 year olds in California that's what the science is telling me . The damage to behavior , mental health and loss  of learning may be permanent. Of course people are concerned but if trump was smart he would throw them a curve ball every now and then.

One more time: Children can carry the virus and bring it home to vulnerable adults.

What rock were you living under when this was going on in Italy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 09:40:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 09:29:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
Stats for nyc for first 6 months of the year 96% of victims of shootings are black or Hispanic .
89% of all murder victims are black of Hispanic , policies are working out great for minorities.
Compassion with order is a phrase a lot of these liberal city politicians need to consider .
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 16, 2020, 08:36:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 08:29:31 PM
The White House Press Secretary on Trump's push to reopen schools: "The science should not stand in the way of this."
if trump really wants the schools reopened he should just say I would prefer them to stay closed ,that would put the powers that be in a conundrum .

That's your opinion?

That the hesitancy and concerns about opening schools is all about Trump?

Not that he's being a f**king bellend, concerned only for how it affects him, as usual, regarding a legitimate and well founded concern?

Do you have kids?
yes I do and I would send them back tomorrow , 0 deaths in 0>17 year olds in California that's what the science is telling me . The damage to behavior , mental health and loss  of learning may be permanent. Of course people are concerned but if trump was smart he would throw them a curve ball every now and then.

One more time: Children can carry the virus and bring it home to vulnerable adults.

What rock were you living under when this was going on in Italy?
ate you living in Italy? Where the evidence in California
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 16, 2020, 09:45:29 PM
Quoth the CDC:

Limit time with other children
If children meet in groups, it can put everyone at risk. Children can pass this virus onto others who have an increased risk of severe illness from COVID-19.

Practice social distancing
The key to slowing the spread of COVID-19 is to limit contact as much as possible. While school is out, children should not have in-person playdates with children from other households. If children are playing outside their own homes, it is essential that they remain 6 feet from anyone who is not in their own household.

To help children maintain social connections while social distancing, help your children have supervised phone calls or video chats with their friends.

Clean hands often
Make sure children practice everyday preventive behaviors, such as washing their hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds. This is especially important if you have been in a public place.

Change travel plans
Revise travel plans if they included non-essential travel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 10:01:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 08:59:04 PM
Or he could behave like a president.
If he could even behave like an aggressive wino or a dog having a shit on my front lawn or an aggressive wino having a shit on my front lawn, that would be a big, big improvement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on July 16, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

The saddest thing is that this changes absolutely nothing.
People who vote(d) for Trump, either openly don't care, or secretly don't care and will try and discredit the individual telling the story.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 17, 2020, 12:23:04 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 16, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

The saddest thing is that this changes absolutely nothing.
People who vote(d) for Trump, either openly don't care, or secretly don't care and will try and discredit the individual telling the story.

At this stage finding a 70 year old white guy who hasn't used either of those slurs would be damn near impossible

Remember what did Bill Clinton say to Ted Kennedy about Candidate Obama-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/75627-sharpton-bill-clintons-remarks-may-have-been-racist%3famp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 17, 2020, 12:27:37 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 16, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

The saddest thing is that this changes absolutely nothing.
People who vote(d) for Trump, either openly don't care, or secretly don't care and will try and discredit the individual telling the story.

Indeed. The Deplorables are a lost cause.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on July 17, 2020, 12:30:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2020, 12:23:04 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 16, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

The saddest thing is that this changes absolutely nothing.
People who vote(d) for Trump, either openly don't care, or secretly don't care and will try and discredit the individual telling the story.

At this stage finding a 70 year old white guy who hasn't used either of those slurs would be damn near impossible

Remember what did Bill Clinton say to Ted Kennedy about Candidate Obama-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/75627-sharpton-bill-clintons-remarks-may-have-been-racist%3famp

Option (c) normalise it.
My dad is 65 and white and he has never spoken about another human being in such a way. I know a lot of people of similar age and I know they don't speak like that.

Your assertion of damn near impossible, is therefore, incorrect
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 17, 2020, 12:43:21 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 16, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

The saddest thing is that this changes absolutely nothing.
People who vote(d) for Trump, either openly don't care, or secretly don't care and will try and discredit the individual telling the story.
It'll firm up his base, they love the racism and the anti-Semitism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 17, 2020, 01:04:56 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 17, 2020, 12:30:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2020, 12:23:04 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 16, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

The saddest thing is that this changes absolutely nothing.
People who vote(d) for Trump, either openly don't care, or secretly don't care and will try and discredit the individual telling the story.

At this stage finding a 70 year old white guy who hasn't used either of those slurs would be damn near impossible

Remember what did Bill Clinton say to Ted Kennedy about Candidate Obama-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/75627-sharpton-bill-clintons-remarks-may-have-been-racist%3famp

Option (c) normalise it.
My dad is 65 and white and he has never spoken about another human being in such a way. I know a lot of people of similar age and I know they don't speak like that.

Your assertion of damn near impossible, is therefore, incorrect

Does your dad and these other 65 year olds live in the states or does they live in Ireland

What are their opinions on travellers? Would they welcome them to live beside him? Would they object if a halting site was built next to them? Would they socialize in a pub with them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on July 17, 2020, 02:03:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2020, 01:04:56 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 17, 2020, 12:30:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2020, 12:23:04 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 16, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

The saddest thing is that this changes absolutely nothing.
People who vote(d) for Trump, either openly don't care, or secretly don't care and will try and discredit the individual telling the story.

At this stage finding a 70 year old white guy who hasn't used either of those slurs would be damn near impossible

Remember what did Bill Clinton say to Ted Kennedy about Candidate Obama-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/75627-sharpton-bill-clintons-remarks-may-have-been-racist%3famp

Option (c) normalise it.
My dad is 65 and white and he has never spoken about another human being in such a way. I know a lot of people of similar age and I know they don't speak like that.

Your assertion of damn near impossible, is therefore, incorrect

Does your dad and these other 65 year olds live in the states or does they live in Ireland

What are their opinions on travellers? Would they welcome them to live beside him? Would they object if a halting site was built next to them? Would they socialize in a pub with them?

I know many people in both countries that are not racist
Is racism in the states more or less acceptable (or accepted) than Ireland? Not sure what you are trying to discern.

No idea about hypothetical situations regarding living arrangements, but they (we) have socialised in our local pub with members of the travelling community.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 17, 2020, 02:13:27 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 17, 2020, 02:03:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2020, 01:04:56 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 17, 2020, 12:30:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2020, 12:23:04 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 16, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

The saddest thing is that this changes absolutely nothing.
People who vote(d) for Trump, either openly don't care, or secretly don't care and will try and discredit the individual telling the story.

At this stage finding a 70 year old white guy who hasn't used either of those slurs would be damn near impossible

Remember what did Bill Clinton say to Ted Kennedy about Candidate Obama-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/75627-sharpton-bill-clintons-remarks-may-have-been-racist%3famp

Option (c) normalise it.
My dad is 65 and white and he has never spoken about another human being in such a way. I know a lot of people of similar age and I know they don't speak like that.

Your assertion of damn near impossible, is therefore, incorrect

Does your dad and these other 65 year olds live in the states or does they live in Ireland

What are their opinions on travellers? Would they welcome them to live beside him? Would they object if a halting site was built next to them? Would they socialize in a pub with them?

I know many people in both countries that are not racist
Is racism in the states more or less acceptable (or accepted) than Ireland? Not sure what you are trying to discern.

No idea about hypothetical situations regarding living arrangements, but they (we) have socialised in our local pub with members of the travelling community.

Good for them....I hope they had a great time


There are plenty of people who aren't racist, who at one time in the past 70 years said something or did something that they're not proud of today. People evolve and they grow and societies change


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 17, 2020, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2020, 02:13:27 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 17, 2020, 02:03:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2020, 01:04:56 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 17, 2020, 12:30:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2020, 12:23:04 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 16, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Video contained in the tweet:

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1283895301582069762

BREAKING: President Trump's niece tells @maddow that she's heard Trump use anti-Semitic slurs and the N-word.

The saddest thing is that this changes absolutely nothing.
People who vote(d) for Trump, either openly don't care, or secretly don't care and will try and discredit the individual telling the story.

At this stage finding a 70 year old white guy who hasn't used either of those slurs would be damn near impossible

Remember what did Bill Clinton say to Ted Kennedy about Candidate Obama-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/75627-sharpton-bill-clintons-remarks-may-have-been-racist%3famp

Option (c) normalise it.
My dad is 65 and white and he has never spoken about another human being in such a way. I know a lot of people of similar age and I know they don't speak like that.

Your assertion of damn near impossible, is therefore, incorrect

Does your dad and these other 65 year olds live in the states or does they live in Ireland

What are their opinions on travellers? Would they welcome them to live beside him? Would they object if a halting site was built next to them? Would they socialize in a pub with them?

I know many people in both countries that are not racist
Is racism in the states more or less acceptable (or accepted) than Ireland? Not sure what you are trying to discern.

No idea about hypothetical situations regarding living arrangements, but they (we) have socialised in our local pub with members of the travelling community.

Good for them....I hope they had a great time


There are plenty of people who aren't racist, who at one time in the past 70 years said something or did something that they're not proud of today. People evolve and they grow and societies change

If only Trump's issues on this front were limited to a few thoughtless, casual uses of such terms some time in the distant past.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: easytiger95 on July 17, 2020, 04:28:23 PM
Ah, the soft bigotry of low expectations...

Of course he would say that, who wouldn't? What, your father wouldn't? Is he from the States? Because if he was he would definitely use the N-word at some stage. He never did?? Bet he hates travellers though. Wouldn't drink with them, would he? Oh he does....emm....ok, good for him.

How about just -

Using the N-word is and was wrong, at any stage of life. And while we hope that people who did use it, at any stage, can grow and evolve, the fact is that the person we are talking about was sued by the Federal Govt in the 70s for discrimination in housing, called for the death of innocent black young men and refused to retract his words even after that innocence was proved, said that he didn't want black people handling his money, just Jews, ran a campaign of delegitimising the first President of colour, started his own campaign by calling Mexicans' rapists, instituted a Muslim ban, separated thousands of children from their parents at the border, and has actively gone after POC in the media, including female reporters asking him questions, Nascar drivers and, of course, Colin Kapernick.

After all that, can we conclude that him saying the N-word was just something that happened in the 70s, or can we safely say that he was, is and will continue to be a degenerate, horrible racist without one redeeming quality?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 17, 2020, 05:12:21 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 17, 2020, 04:28:23 PM
Ah, the soft bigotry of low expectations...

Of course he would say that, who wouldn't? What, your father wouldn't? Is he from the States? Because if he was he would definitely use the N-word at some stage. He never did?? Bet he hates travellers though. Wouldn't drink with them, would he? Oh he does....emm....ok, good for him.

How about just -

Using the N-word is and was wrong, at any stage of life. And while we hope that people who did use it, at any stage, can grow and evolve, the fact is that the person we are talking about was sued by the Federal Govt in the 70s for discrimination in housing, called for the death of innocent black young men and refused to retract his words even after that innocence was proved, said that he didn't want black people handling his money, just Jews, ran a campaign of delegitimising the first President of colour, started his own campaign by calling Mexicans' rapists, instituted a Muslim ban, separated thousands of children from their parents at the border, and has actively gone after POC in the media, including female reporters asking him questions, Nascar drivers and, of course, Colin Kapernick.

After all that, can we conclude that him saying the N-word was just something that happened in the 70s, or can we safely say that he was, is and will continue to be a degenerate, horrible racist without one redeeming quality?

Lol

Many Irish people love giving themselves a pat on the back and tell themselves how mighty they are when it comes to opposing racism.

However when it comes to travellers it's a whole other story

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/they-don-t-live-the-same-way-we-do-it-s-just-a-fact-1.2392169%3fmode=amp

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/our-casual-racism-against-travellers-is-one-of-ireland-s-last-great-shames-1.1315730%3fmode=amp

https://www.vice.com/amp/en_ca/article/dp5kzz/irelands-racism-towards-travellers-proves-equality-is-still-a-myth-199

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 17, 2020, 05:41:07 PM
JUL. 17, 2020, AT 5:59 AM

Americans Increasingly Dislike How Republican Governors Are Handling The Coronavirus Outbreak (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-increasingly-dislike-how-republican-governors-are-handling-the-coronavirus-outbreak/)
By Geoffrey Skelley

Poll(s) of the week

Throughout the coronavirus pandemic, governors have generally received better marks for the way they've handled the crisis than President Trump has. However, new polling suggests that may be changing, especially for Republican governors in states where the number of coronavirus cases has spiked in recent weeks.

Gallup recently found that Americans in the 26 states governed by Republicans are souring on their leaders' approach to the public health crisis, while sentiment remains steadily positive among residents of the 24 states governed by Democrats. In fact, over the past month, the share of respondents who agreed that their governor cared about the safety and health of their community fell by 8 points, from 61 percent to 53 percent, in states where a Republican is governor; opinion in Democratic-run states hovered around 65 percent, despite some movement week to week.

(https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/skelley-POLLAPALOOZA.0717-0715-1.png?w=1150)

And on the question of how clearly governors were communicating their plans to address the coronavirus, the GOP also got low marks. Among respondents in Republican-run states, just 43 percent said their governor offered a clear plan, down from 54 percent about a month ago. Meanwhile, 58 percent of respondents in Democratic-run states said that their governor was communicating clearly, which was nearly identical to the share who said so in early June.

Gallup isn't the only pollster to find GOP leaders getting lower scores for the way they're dealing with the coronavirus pandemic. Change Research's polling of six battleground states found especially poor numbers for Republican governors in two states where the number of coronavirus cases surged in the first half of July: Florida and Arizona. In Change's polling, 57 percent disapproved of Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis's handling of the outbreak, and a whopping 71 percent disapproved of Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey's response. Additional polling in Arizona and Florida second these findings. OH Predictive Insights found that opinion of Ducey's approach went from a net positive in June (59 percent approved, 37 percent disapproved) to a net negative in July (35 percent approved, 63 percent disapproved). Likewise, surveys by CBS News/YouGov found 53 percent of Floridians said DeSantis was doing a somewhat or very bad job and 62 percent of Arizonans said the same of Ducey.

Not every Republican governor's pandemic-response ratings are underwater, however. Some, in fact, have sterling numbers. In late June, a survey from the University of New Hampshire found Gov. Chris Sununu had a 78 percent approval rating for his handling of the virus. Considering Sununu is up for reelection this November, his response could help him win another two years in office. Meanwhile, in Ohio, 77 percent of respondents in a late-June Quinnipiac University poll approved of Gov. Mike DeWine's performance. And in Massachusetts, another late-June survey from Suffolk University found 81 percent approved of Gov. Charlie Baker's handling of the outbreak.

What these three governors have in common is the coronavirus hasn't been surging in their states recently as much as it has in Arizona or Florida, but that doesn't explain everything. Texas's case rate has also shot up since late June, but Gov. Greg Abbott has gotten better marks than either DeSantis or Ducey. A CBS News/YouGov survey, for instance, found that public opinion was split as to how well he was handling the crisis: 50 percent said he was doing a good job and 50 percent said he was doing a bad job. And in another early-July survey from The Dallas Morning News/UT-Tyler, 49 percent approved of Abbott's response while 40 percent disapproved (10 percent said they neither approved nor disapproved).

Some Democratic governors have middling approval ratings, too. Change Research's early-July survey found, for instance, that 56 percent approved of Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers's handling of the pandemic, while 55 percent approved of Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf's responses. And just 51 percent approved of North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper's efforts. Wolf got some better numbers from a Monmouth University poll released earlier this week, in which 67 percent said he'd done a good job handling the coronavirus, but Cooper seems to be stuck around 50 percent. A late-June survey from East Carolina University found 53 percent approved of his response.


But on the whole, Americans have a somewhat more favorable view of the way Democratic governors have handled the pandemic than the way Republican governors are responding. In late June, a consortium of universities conducted a poll of governors' handling of the coronavirus across all 50 states and found that the median approval rating for Democratic governors was about 55 percent, compared to 49 percent for Republican governors. And some Democratic executives have sky-high numbers for how they've handled the pandemic. A late-June poll from Siena College gave New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo a 76 percent approval rating for his handling of the coronavirus, while a Garin Hart Yang Research Group survey found that 69 percent of Kentucky voters approved of Gov. Andy Beshear's response.

Of course, as president, Trump's response to the coronavirus has continued to garner the most attention, but unfortunately for him, public opinion of his efforts has only worsened. About 58 percent now disapprove of his handling of the pandemic while just 38 percent approve, according to FiveThirtyEight's coronavirus polling tracker.

(https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/coronavirus-tracker-7-16.png?w=1150)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 17, 2020, 09:05:03 PM
Rethuglican death cult update:

According to a document compiled for the White House Coronavirus Task Force, but withheld from the public, Georgia is one of 18 states in the "red zone" for high caseload growth, and one of 12 in the "red zone" for high positive test results.

"Disease trends are moving in the wrong direction in Georgia with record numbers of new cases in urban, suburban and rural areas," the report warns. GA had 202 new cases for 100,000 population last week, compared to the nationwide average of 119 per 100K population.

The hardest hit counties are Gwinnett, DeKalb & Fulton, which together account for 25.9% of new cases statewide. (Some local officials have tried to respond to that crisis by imposing mask orders and other public-health measures, but Gov. Kemp is fighting hard to stop them.)

Among the report's suggestions for GA:

- "Allow local jurisdictions to implement more restrictive policies"
- "Mandate statewide wearing of cloth face coverings outside the home"
- In counties with high positive rates, "close bars, restrict social distancing in restaurants"

According to the leaked report, deaths in GA were up 65% over the previous week, positive tests were up 20.6%, total tests reported were DOWN 3.3%. So these numbers are not the result of more testing. It also lists specific communities at heightened risk.

Those communities at heightened risk include Atlanta, Augusta, Savannah and Athens-Clarke County, all jurisdictions that have attempted to implement steps advised in the White House report but have been blocked by doing so by Gov. Kemp.

In Kemp's defense, he probably has not had the benefit of seeing these recommendations, which again were delivered to the White House Task Force but not made available to those who could actually make use of them. Yet somehow I don't think it would matter to Kemp.

By not releasing this report & similar documents, the Trump WH actively deceives the American people about how best to protect themselves and about the actions that they should be demanding of their public officials. That is not by accident. It is, apparently, the plan.

Source: Jay Bookman, Journalist/author, columnist for the Georgia Recorder
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 17, 2020, 11:01:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 17, 2020, 09:05:03 PM
Rethuglican death cult update:

According to a document compiled for the White House Coronavirus Task Force, but withheld from the public, Georgia is one of 18 states in the "red zone" for high caseload growth, and one of 12 in the "red zone" for high positive test results.

"Disease trends are moving in the wrong direction in Georgia with record numbers of new cases in urban, suburban and rural areas," the report warns. GA had 202 new cases for 100,000 population last week, compared to the nationwide average of 119 per 100K population.

The hardest hit counties are Gwinnett, DeKalb & Fulton, which together account for 25.9% of new cases statewide. (Some local officials have tried to respond to that crisis by imposing mask orders and other public-health measures, but Gov. Kemp is fighting hard to stop them.)

Among the report's suggestions for GA:

- "Allow local jurisdictions to implement more restrictive policies"
- "Mandate statewide wearing of cloth face coverings outside the home"
- In counties with high positive rates, "close bars, restrict social distancing in restaurants"

According to the leaked report, deaths in GA were up 65% over the previous week, positive tests were up 20.6%, total tests reported were DOWN 3.3%. So these numbers are not the result of more testing. It also lists specific communities at heightened risk.

Those communities at heightened risk include Atlanta, Augusta, Savannah and Athens-Clarke County, all jurisdictions that have attempted to implement steps advised in the White House report but have been blocked by doing so by Gov. Kemp.

In Kemp's defense, he probably has not had the benefit of seeing these recommendations, which again were delivered to the White House Task Force but not made available to those who could actually make use of them. Yet somehow I don't think it would matter to Kemp.

By not releasing this report & similar documents, the Trump WH actively deceives the American people about how best to protect themselves and about the actions that they should be demanding of their public officials. That is not by accident. It is, apparently, the plan.

Source: Jay Bookman, Journalist/author, columnist for the Georgia Recorder
what's wrong with California' eamon big spike here .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 17, 2020, 11:40:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2020, 11:01:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 17, 2020, 09:05:03 PM
Rethuglican death cult update:

According to a document compiled for the White House Coronavirus Task Force, but withheld from the public, Georgia is one of 18 states in the "red zone" for high caseload growth, and one of 12 in the "red zone" for high positive test results.

"Disease trends are moving in the wrong direction in Georgia with record numbers of new cases in urban, suburban and rural areas," the report warns. GA had 202 new cases for 100,000 population last week, compared to the nationwide average of 119 per 100K population.

The hardest hit counties are Gwinnett, DeKalb & Fulton, which together account for 25.9% of new cases statewide. (Some local officials have tried to respond to that crisis by imposing mask orders and other public-health measures, but Gov. Kemp is fighting hard to stop them.)

Among the report's suggestions for GA:

- "Allow local jurisdictions to implement more restrictive policies"
- "Mandate statewide wearing of cloth face coverings outside the home"
- In counties with high positive rates, "close bars, restrict social distancing in restaurants"

According to the leaked report, deaths in GA were up 65% over the previous week, positive tests were up 20.6%, total tests reported were DOWN 3.3%. So these numbers are not the result of more testing. It also lists specific communities at heightened risk.

Those communities at heightened risk include Atlanta, Augusta, Savannah and Athens-Clarke County, all jurisdictions that have attempted to implement steps advised in the White House report but have been blocked by doing so by Gov. Kemp.

In Kemp's defense, he probably has not had the benefit of seeing these recommendations, which again were delivered to the White House Task Force but not made available to those who could actually make use of them. Yet somehow I don't think it would matter to Kemp.

By not releasing this report & similar documents, the Trump WH actively deceives the American people about how best to protect themselves and about the actions that they should be demanding of their public officials. That is not by accident. It is, apparently, the plan.

Source: Jay Bookman, Journalist/author, columnist for the Georgia Recorder
what's wrong with California' eamon big spike here .

Nice try.  Big spike in conservative-infested counties:

(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/12/46/33/19556050/9/rawImage.jpg)

But, lest we get the subject changed or anything, what do you make of Kemp fighting against local officials trying to mandate masks? Could he have shares in coffin manufacturers? It would explain a great many things.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 18, 2020, 12:03:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 17, 2020, 11:40:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2020, 11:01:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 17, 2020, 09:05:03 PM
Rethuglican death cult update:

According to a document compiled for the White House Coronavirus Task Force, but withheld from the public, Georgia is one of 18 states in the "red zone" for high caseload growth, and one of 12 in the "red zone" for high positive test results.

"Disease trends are moving in the wrong direction in Georgia with record numbers of new cases in urban, suburban and rural areas," the report warns. GA had 202 new cases for 100,000 population last week, compared to the nationwide average of 119 per 100K population.

The hardest hit counties are Gwinnett, DeKalb & Fulton, which together account for 25.9% of new cases statewide. (Some local officials have tried to respond to that crisis by imposing mask orders and other public-health measures, but Gov. Kemp is fighting hard to stop them.)

Among the report's suggestions for GA:

- "Allow local jurisdictions to implement more restrictive policies"
- "Mandate statewide wearing of cloth face coverings outside the home"
- In counties with high positive rates, "close bars, restrict social distancing in restaurants"

According to the leaked report, deaths in GA were up 65% over the previous week, positive tests were up 20.6%, total tests reported were DOWN 3.3%. So these numbers are not the result of more testing. It also lists specific communities at heightened risk.

Those communities at heightened risk include Atlanta, Augusta, Savannah and Athens-Clarke County, all jurisdictions that have attempted to implement steps advised in the White House report but have been blocked by doing so by Gov. Kemp.

In Kemp's defense, he probably has not had the benefit of seeing these recommendations, which again were delivered to the White House Task Force but not made available to those who could actually make use of them. Yet somehow I don't think it would matter to Kemp.

By not releasing this report & similar documents, the Trump WH actively deceives the American people about how best to protect themselves and about the actions that they should be demanding of their public officials. That is not by accident. It is, apparently, the plan.

Source: Jay Bookman, Journalist/author, columnist for the Georgia Recorder
what's wrong with California' eamon big spike here .

Nice try.  Big spike in conservative-infested counties:

(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/12/46/33/19556050/9/rawImage.jpg)

But, lest we get the subject changed or anything, what do you make of Kemp fighting against local officials trying to mandate masks? Could he have shares in coffin manufacturers? It would explain a great many things.
sonoma county as an example do you think that a lot of people from sf are going there because everything is shut down in their own citiy.  Same with Arizona lots went from SoCal when it was closed down at home same with Florida. You are forgetting about New York  , New Jersey governors and the dreadful job they did . I wear a mask inside a public space but not outside.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 12:21:50 AM
Put those goalposts back where you got them. Why is Kemp so determined to de-mask the people of his state that he's willing to fight against local mask mandates?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 01:42:34 AM
Of all the things the Rethuglican governor of Georgia could be doing with his time in the middle of a pandemic, he decides to sue the city of Atlanta to prevent them from enforcing mask rules. How low can this evil death cult go?

Coronavirus: Georgia governor sues Atlanta over face mask rules (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53429800)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 18, 2020, 02:09:22 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 01:42:34 AM
Of all the things the Rethuglican governor of Georgia could be doing with his time in the middle of a pandemic, he decides to sue the city of Atlanta to prevent them from enforcing mask rules. How low can this evil death cult go?

Coronavirus: Georgia governor sues Atlanta over face mask rules (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53429800)

Trump sending unidentifiable Government agents to Oregon rounding up peaceful protestors... how does that fit in with "Conservative Values" that Government should stay out of people's affairs??!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 02:44:55 AM
Don't worry. The Second Amendment people with basements full of guns will be along any second to overthrow the tyrannical government, just like they've always promised they'd do. ~sarc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 06:47:31 AM
Federal officers showing no insignia, no identification, and driving around in unmarked vehicles, are snatching random people off the street in Portland and abducting them for no f***ing reason. What. The. Actual. f**k. Is happening? This is naked fascism! It's not the beginning of fascism, it's the middle!

This needs to be a four-alarm national outrage! This is exactly what the Second Amendment people, the ones with basements full of guns and ammo, said Would be enough to prompt them to overthrow the tyrannical federal government! Where are they? Why aren't they storming the White House right now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 07:07:08 AM
Sweet Jesus, are we near the bottom yet?

Georgia Massaged Virus Data to Reopen, Then Voided Mask Orders (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-17/georgia-massaged-virus-data-to-reopen-then-voided-mask-orders)

Do we have to wait for the gas chambers to become operational before conservatives wake up to the evil monsters they have become?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 18, 2020, 11:22:53 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 06:47:31 AM
Federal officers showing no insignia, no identification, and driving around in unmarked vehicles, are snatching random people off the street in Portland and abducting them for no f***ing reason. What. The. Actual. f**k. Is happening? This is naked fascism! It's not the beginning of fascism, it's the middle!

This needs to be a four-alarm national outrage! This is exactly what the Second Amendment people, the ones with basements full of guns and ammo, said Would be enough to prompt them to overthrow the tyrannical federal government! Where are they? Why aren't they storming the White House right now?

Maybe they should call the police......oh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 18, 2020, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 06:47:31 AM
Federal officers showing no insignia, no identification, and driving around in unmarked vehicles, are snatching random people off the street in Portland and abducting them for no f***ing reason. What. The. Actual. f**k. Is happening? This is naked fascism! It's not the beginning of fascism, it's the middle!

This needs to be a four-alarm national outrage! This is exactly what the Second Amendment people, the ones with basements full of guns and ammo, said Would be enough to prompt them to overthrow the tyrannical federal government! Where are they? Why aren't they storming the White House right now?
Trump sure learned from his best buddy Putin and his little green men in Crimea, didn't he?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 18, 2020, 02:09:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 18, 2020, 02:09:22 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 01:42:34 AM
Of all the things the Rethuglican governor of Georgia could be doing with his time in the middle of a pandemic, he decides to sue the city of Atlanta to prevent them from enforcing mask rules. How low can this evil death cult go?

Coronavirus: Georgia governor sues Atlanta over face mask rules (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53429800)

Trump sending unidentifiable Government agents to Oregon rounding up peaceful protestors... how does that fit in with "Conservative Values" that Government should stay out of people's affairs??!!
dong believe everything on Twitter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 02:23:33 PM
Are you seriously denying that this is happening?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2020, 02:09:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 18, 2020, 02:09:22 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 01:42:34 AM
Of all the things the Rethuglican governor of Georgia could be doing with his time in the middle of a pandemic, he decides to sue the city of Atlanta to prevent them from enforcing mask rules. How low can this evil death cult go?

Coronavirus: Georgia governor sues Atlanta over face mask rules (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53429800)

Trump sending unidentifiable Government agents to Oregon rounding up peaceful protestors... how does that fit in with "Conservative Values" that Government should stay out of people's affairs??!!
dong believe everything on Twitter.

Federal Officers Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab People In Portland, DHS Confirms (https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-officers-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-grab-protesters-in-portland?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20200717)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 18, 2020, 03:06:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2020, 02:09:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 18, 2020, 02:09:22 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 01:42:34 AM
Of all the things the Rethuglican governor of Georgia could be doing with his time in the middle of a pandemic, he decides to sue the city of Atlanta to prevent them from enforcing mask rules. How low can this evil death cult go?

Coronavirus: Georgia governor sues Atlanta over face mask rules (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53429800)

Trump sending unidentifiable Government agents to Oregon rounding up peaceful protestors... how does that fit in with "Conservative Values" that Government should stay out of people's affairs??!!
dong believe everything on Twitter.

Federal Officers Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab People In Portland, DHS Confirms (https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-officers-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-grab-protesters-in-portland?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20200717)

Cops have unmarked cars....whooda thunk

In other news it has been confirmed that the Pope is in fact a Catholic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 18, 2020, 06:14:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2020, 02:23:33 PM
Are you seriously denying that this is happening?
i saw one video of a guy getting arrested he put up his hands and walked away with the officers who were arresting him peacefully, do the rioters think they can attack police , damage and burn federal property for 50 days straight without any consequences ? If the mayor won't protect federal property then federal agencies have to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 19, 2020, 12:01:30 AM
So let me see Conservatives are against Governement interference in people's lives, for freedom of assembly and for fiscal conservatism.

Trump blows all 3 out of the water and they still back him... Conservatives have lost the plot!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 19, 2020, 12:58:13 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2020, 12:01:30 AM
So let me see Conservatives are against Governement interference in people's lives, for freedom of assembly and for fiscal conservatism.

Trump blows all 3 out of the water and they still back him... Conservatives have lost the plot!!

Conservatives are for law and order

Mobs of masked rioters assaulting law enforcement officers at will for weeks on end does not sit well with the
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 19, 2020, 05:11:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2020, 12:01:30 AM
So let me see Conservatives are against Governement interference in people's lives, for freedom of assembly and for fiscal conservatism.

Trump blows all 3 out of the water and they still back him... Conservatives have lost the plot!!

Conservatism is a mental illness that can get us all killed if it's not stopped.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 19, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 19, 2020, 05:11:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2020, 12:01:30 AM
So let me see Conservatives are against Governement interference in people's lives, for freedom of assembly and for fiscal conservatism.

Trump blows all 3 out of the water and they still back him... Conservatives have lost the plot!!

Conservatism is a mental illness that can get us all killed if it's not stopped.
anything about Portland on Twitter today lads  ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 19, 2020, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 19, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 19, 2020, 05:11:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2020, 12:01:30 AM
So let me see Conservatives are against Governement interference in people's lives, for freedom of assembly and for fiscal conservatism.

Trump blows all 3 out of the water and they still back him... Conservatives have lost the plot!!

Conservatism is a mental illness that can get us all killed if it's not stopped.
anything about Portland on Twitter today lads  ?

Yeah Trump/Barr still showing total disregard for Democracy... Conservatives must be so proud!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 20, 2020, 01:17:43 AM
https://twitter.com/bymikebaker/status/1284998542008836096?s=21
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2020, 07:17:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 19, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 19, 2020, 05:11:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2020, 12:01:30 AM
So let me see Conservatives are against Governement interference in people's lives, for freedom of assembly and for fiscal conservatism.

Trump blows all 3 out of the water and they still back him... Conservatives have lost the plot!!

Conservatism is a mental illness that can get us all killed if it's not stopped.
anything about Portland on Twitter today lads  ?

I don't know about Twitter but the paramilitary secret police abducting people, bundling them into unmarked vehicles, and hauling them off to undisclosed locations is all over the news. Local officials are denouncing the approach as having inflamed the situation and making it harder to get the protests under control. Do you believe that it's happening now or are you still in denial?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2020, 07:21:38 PM
Trump fell to pieces in a grilling from that well known bastion of liberal bias, Fox News. Chris Wallace obliterated Trump and exposed him for the lying POS he is. I was almost embarrassed for him.

But at least he can point to a picture of an elephant and identify it as an elephant. Nobody identifies elephants as well as me, believe me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 01:11:41 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2020, 07:17:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 19, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 19, 2020, 05:11:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2020, 12:01:30 AM
So let me see Conservatives are against Governement interference in people's lives, for freedom of assembly and for fiscal conservatism.

Trump blows all 3 out of the water and they still back him... Conservatives have lost the plot!!

Conservatism is a mental illness that can get us all killed if it's not stopped.
anything about Portland on Twitter today lads  ?

I don't know about Twitter but the paramilitary secret police abducting people, bundling them into unmarked vehicles, and hauling them off to undisclosed locations is all over the news. Local officials are denouncing the approach as having inflamed the situation and making it harder to get the protests under control. Do you believe that it's happening now or are you still in denial?
they can burn down the rest of the city it seems the mayor doesn't care but not the federal buildings they are government property and will be protected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 21, 2020, 01:15:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2020, 07:21:38 PM
Trump fell to pieces in a grilling from that well known bastion of liberal bias, Fox News. Chris Wallace obliterated Trump and exposed him for the lying POS he is. I was almost embarrassed for him.

But at least he can point to a picture of an elephant and identify it as an elephant. Nobody identifies elephants as well as me, believe me.

Joes now painted into a corner on defunding the police.

If he's for it.....Trump was right

If he's against it the left Wing of the party will go ballistic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 01:19:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 01:11:41 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2020, 07:17:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 19, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 19, 2020, 05:11:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2020, 12:01:30 AM
So let me see Conservatives are against Governement interference in people's lives, for freedom of assembly and for fiscal conservatism.

Trump blows all 3 out of the water and they still back him... Conservatives have lost the plot!!

Conservatism is a mental illness that can get us all killed if it's not stopped.
anything about Portland on Twitter today lads  ?

I don't know about Twitter but the paramilitary secret police abducting people, bundling them into unmarked vehicles, and hauling them off to undisclosed locations is all over the news. Local officials are denouncing the approach as having inflamed the situation and making it harder to get the protests under control. Do you believe that it's happening now or are you still in denial?
they can burn down the rest of the city it seems the mayor doesn't care but not the federal buildings they are government property and will be protected.

Ah yes. Protecting property. The hierarchy of importance in the US is as follows:


Getting the lives of black people two rungs higher on that ladder until they're equal with white people's lives is still an ongoing process.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 21, 2020, 01:20:23 AM
From the WSJ explaining why Eamonn and others haven't a clue what they're talking about



Enter News, Quotes, Companies or Videos

OPINION  REVIEW & OUTLOOK
The Mess in Portland
Progressives blame Trump for the disorder they've tolerated.
By  The Editorial Board
July 20, 2020 7:15 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
112

A person walks past graffiti covering the walls of the US Courthouse in Portland, Oregon, July 17.
PHOTO: ANKUR DHOLAKIA/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES
Anarchists and rioters have wreaked havoc on Portland, Ore., for nearly two months. Democrats have excused and emboldened them, and they're now claiming the real problem is that federal law enforcement has intervened to restore order. Maybe the feds should leave and let the city put out its own fires.

Peaceful protests broke out in Portland in late May in response to the killing of George Floyd, but they've quickly escalated to rioting and vandalism. Demonstrators have launched large fireworks at law enforcement, shone laser pointers at their eyes, thrown fecal matter, and assaulted at least one officer with a hammer.


OPINION: POTOMAC WATCH
Trump, the Virus and the Relief Bill

00:00 / 24:23
SUBSCRIBE
The Department of Homeland Security reports that rioters are armed with rifles, tasers, slingshots and sledgehammers and have committed multiple acts of arson. On July 3 someone firebombed the Hatfield U.S. Courthouse, and scarcely a day passes without graffiti and property damage.


If radicals feel emboldened, that's because Portland has long allowed political violence to occur with impunity. In recent years dueling marches by Antifa and far-right activists have descended into brawling, and too often police have done little to stop it. Assaults have gone unpunished, including a violent attack on journalist Andy Ngo. Portland Police admit that they sometimes simply walk away from protests—er, strategically disengage.

In early June Mayor Ted Wheeler told police to refrain from using tear gas unless there's "violence that threatens life safety." Federal Judge Marco Hernandez also issued an injunction prohibiting the use of tear gas "to disperse crowds where there is no or little risk of injury." And on June 30, Oregon Gov. Kate Brown signed legislation that bans tear gas unless police declare a riot.

Enter federal agents, who face no such restrictions on crowd-control tactics. After a June 26 executive order by President Trump, officers from Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and the Federal Protective Service were dispatched to Portland to safeguard federal property.

"Mr. President, this is an attack on our democracy," Mayor Wheeler tweeted on July 17, along with a New York Times headline claiming "federal agents unleash militarized crackdown on Portland." Nonsense. Federal law clearly allows the Secretary of Homeland Security to dispatch agents to protect federal property and arrest those who threaten it.

Critics have complained that federal agents obscure their identity and operate out of unmarked cars. Officers legitimately fear being identified by name and harassed at home, and their superiors have sometimes allowed them to obscure nameplates while still displaying their patches and badge numbers.


Meanwhile, protesters routinely dress in identical "black bloc" attire and obscure their faces. They've made a habit of swarming officers who attempt an arrest, creating chaos, and helping the suspect disappear. Unmarked cars help federal agents surveil the scene without attracting unwanted attention, and they also enable law enforcement to complete arrests by choosing a safe and opportune moment to make their move. Those arrested are read their Miranda rights and booked as usual.

We understand Mr. Trump's desire to restore order, but he's also saving Democrats from themselves. State and local Democrats will blame federal intervention for any and all disorder, deflecting attention from their own failures. The media will echo whatever they say. Progressives run Portland, Chicago, New York and other cities now experiencing a surge of violence. If they want to indulge the mayhem, then let them live with the consequences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 01:24:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 01:15:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 20, 2020, 07:21:38 PM
Trump fell to pieces in a grilling from that well known bastion of liberal bias, Fox News. Chris Wallace obliterated Trump and exposed him for the lying POS he is. I was almost embarrassed for him.

But at least he can point to a picture of an elephant and identify it as an elephant. Nobody identifies elephants as well as me, believe me.

Joes now painted into a corner on defunding the police.

If he's for it.....Trump was right

If he's against it the left Wing of the party will go ballistic
see former dnc vice chairman and current minn ag Keith ellison doesn't want women who have been raped to call the police ,how can people vote for these lunatics. The dnc are now are a radical left party .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 09:34:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 01:20:23 AM
From the WSJ explaining why Eamonn and others haven't a clue what they're talking about

It explains why you and those of your mindset have no clue what they are talking about.


The more you try and oppress, the more the oppressed will tend to resort to violence - particularly if you keep removing any means of meaningful discourse.


The USA is reaping what it has sowed for hundreds of years. No surprise that its not passing by after a week or two.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 21, 2020, 10:05:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 09:34:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 01:20:23 AM
From the WSJ explaining why Eamonn and others haven't a clue what they're talking about

It explains why you and those of your mindset have no clue what they are talking about.


The more you try and oppress, the more the oppressed will tend to resort to violence - particularly if you keep removing any means of meaningful discourse.


The USA is reaping what it has sowed for hundreds of years. No surprise that its not passing by after a week or two.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 21, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 09:34:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 01:20:23 AM
From the WSJ explaining why Eamonn and others haven't a clue what they're talking about

It explains why you and those of your mindset have no clue what they are talking about.


The more you try and oppress, the more the oppressed will tend to resort to violence - particularly if you keep removing any means of meaningful discourse.


The USA is reaping what it has sowed for hundreds of years. No surprise that its not passing by after a week or two.

The people rioting and setting fire to Federal buildings are overwhelmingly white not black, so I'm curious as to how and by whom they were oppressed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
The people rioting and setting fire to Federal buildings are overwhelmingly white not black, so I'm curious as to how and by whom they were oppressed

They are standing with those that are oppressed. Surely that is obvious even to you?

They have also no doubt been looking on at the police actions early in this saga with horror. Police shooting rubber bullets at the press, at folks in wheelchairs, at peaceful demonstrators. They've seen the police blatantly attempt to intimidate and injure senior citizens.

At this point, the protests are about more than just BLM - they are also against the militarisation of US policing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 21, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
The people rioting and setting fire to Federal buildings are overwhelmingly white not black, so I'm curious as to how and by whom they were oppressed

They are standing with those that are oppressed. Surely that is obvious even to you?

They have also no doubt been looking on at the police actions early in this saga with horror. Police shooting rubber bullets at the press, at folks in wheelchairs, at peaceful demonstrators. They've seen the police blatantly attempt to intimidate and injure senior citizens.

At this point, the protests are about more than just BLM - they are also against the militarisation of US policing.

LOL-no, they're just anarchists. (The African American Democratic Mayor of Chicago actually used that term to describe the people who injured 48 officers last Friday afternoon)

So burning down federal buildings and pulling down statues, exactly how does that help "people who are oppressed"? 


LOL and you do realize that some of the "press" (and "medics") you read about are just internet bloggers who support the rioters

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
The people rioting and setting fire to Federal buildings are overwhelmingly white not black, so I'm curious as to how and by whom they were oppressed

They are standing with those that are oppressed. Surely that is obvious even to you?

They have also no doubt been looking on at the police actions early in this saga with horror. Police shooting rubber bullets at the press, at folks in wheelchairs, at peaceful demonstrators. They've seen the police blatantly attempt to intimidate and injure senior citizens.

At this point, the protests are about more than just BLM - they are also against the militarisation of US policing.
you are right that the protests are about something else at this stage but not what you think
The protests are about trump and if he is re-elected and they are letting the country know get ready for 4 more years of anarchy if he is elected again .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 05:29:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 12:45:39 PMLOL and you do realize that some of the "press" (and "medics") you read about are just internet bloggers who support the rioters

Yes, the news crews reporting live to an international audience of hundreds of thousands if not millions that were getting shot at or arrested by the police were "internet bloggers".  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 21, 2020, 05:39:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 05:29:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 12:45:39 PMLOL and you do realize that some of the "press" (and "medics") you read about are just internet bloggers who support the rioters

Yes, the news crews reporting live to an international audience of hundreds of thousands if not millions that were getting shot at or arrested by the police were "internet bloggers".  ::)

Hence my use of the word "some" (and I would venture to say most is probably more accurate)

In the middle of a riot with projectiles and teargas flying, I don't think the cops are taking off their riot gear to inspect press passes. If they're clearing an area, while legally the press may be exempt from complying, it's very easy to get caught in the middle

I notice how none of you guys are offering any support to the 49 officers assaulted by a mob in Chicago last Friday evening, of whom 18 were hospitalized
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
The people rioting and setting fire to Federal buildings are overwhelmingly white not black, so I'm curious as to how and by whom they were oppressed

They are standing with those that are oppressed. Surely that is obvious even to you?

They have also no doubt been looking on at the police actions early in this saga with horror. Police shooting rubber bullets at the press, at folks in wheelchairs, at peaceful demonstrators. They've seen the police blatantly attempt to intimidate and injure senior citizens.

At this point, the protests are about more than just BLM - they are also against the militarisation of US policing.
you are right that the protests are about something else at this stage but not what you think
The protests are about trump and if he is re-elected and they are letting the country know get ready for 4 more years of anarchy if he is elected again .
Now you're catching on, old boy!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
The people rioting and setting fire to Federal buildings are overwhelmingly white not black, so I'm curious as to how and by whom they were oppressed

They are standing with those that are oppressed. Surely that is obvious even to you?

They have also no doubt been looking on at the police actions early in this saga with horror. Police shooting rubber bullets at the press, at folks in wheelchairs, at peaceful demonstrators. They've seen the police blatantly attempt to intimidate and injure senior citizens.

At this point, the protests are about more than just BLM - they are also against the militarisation of US policing.
you are right that the protests are about something else at this stage but not what you think
The protests are about trump and if he is re-elected and they are letting the country know get ready for 4 more years of anarchy if he is elected again .

Now you're catching on, old boy!
rioting from behind the keyboard old chum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 21, 2020, 07:04:01 PM
Mad the way the "small government" loons turned to be big fans of secret police, it's almost as if the whole "small government" nonsense was always nothing more than a self conscious fraud!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on July 21, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
https://twitter.com/andy_resist_/status/1285280976751325184?s=21

LAW AND ORDER!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 21, 2020, 08:28:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 21, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
https://twitter.com/andy_resist_/status/1285280976751325184?s=21

LAW AND ORDER!!!

Maybe you should have posted this where it belongs,  on the "Many Faces of Serbian Politics" Thread
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 08:48:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 08:28:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 21, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
https://twitter.com/andy_resist_/status/1285280976751325184?s=21

LAW AND ORDER!!!

Maybe you should have posted this where it belongs,  on the "Many Faces of Serbian Politics" Thread
he thinks all police are like the ruc that's the real problem with most boys on here .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
The people rioting and setting fire to Federal buildings are overwhelmingly white not black, so I'm curious as to how and by whom they were oppressed

They are standing with those that are oppressed. Surely that is obvious even to you?

They have also no doubt been looking on at the police actions early in this saga with horror. Police shooting rubber bullets at the press, at folks in wheelchairs, at peaceful demonstrators. They've seen the police blatantly attempt to intimidate and injure senior citizens.

At this point, the protests are about more than just BLM - they are also against the militarisation of US policing.
you are right that the protests are about something else at this stage but not what you think
The protests are about trump and if he is re-elected and they are letting the country know get ready for 4 more years of anarchy if he is elected again .

Now you're catching on, old boy!
rioting from behind the keyboard old chum.
Did you type that on a keyboard?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 09:10:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 21, 2020, 07:04:01 PM
Mad the way the "small government" loons turned to be big fans of secret police, it's almost as if the whole "small government" nonsense was always nothing more than a self conscious fraud!

The conservative doctrine is as follows:

"We are a nation of laws" (but only for immigrants. Mask mandates and gun control are laws that should be ignored.)
"Deficits are bad" (But only when Democrats are in office. When Repubs are in office, we get to spend like drunken sailors while cutting the divil out of taxes)
"Big government is bad!" (except when it comes to spending on weapons, armed police, prisons, and all the other instruments of death and oppression in which case money is no problem)
"Government has no right to infringe on our freedom as individuals!" (Unless "we" means women who need to terminate pregnancies)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 09:35:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
The people rioting and setting fire to Federal buildings are overwhelmingly white not black, so I'm curious as to how and by whom they were oppressed

They are standing with those that are oppressed. Surely that is obvious even to you?

They have also no doubt been looking on at the police actions early in this saga with horror. Police shooting rubber bullets at the press, at folks in wheelchairs, at peaceful demonstrators. They've seen the police blatantly attempt to intimidate and injure senior citizens.

At this point, the protests are about more than just BLM - they are also against the militarisation of US policing.
you are right that the protests are about something else at this stage but not what you think
The protests are about trump and if he is re-elected and they are letting the country know get ready for 4 more years of anarchy if he is elected again .

Now you're catching on, old boy!
rioting from behind the keyboard old chum.
Did you type that on a keyboard?
yes but I'm not threatening anarchy .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 10:19:49 PM
The only one responsible for all this anarchy is Trump and you know it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 10:22:49 PM
More Rethuglican criminality:

QuoteOhio House Speaker Arrested In Connection With $60 Million Bribery Scheme (https://www.npr.org/2020/07/21/893493224/ohio-house-speaker-arrested-in-connection-to-60-million-bribery-scheme)

FBI agents arrested Ohio House Speaker Larry Householder on Tuesday morning at his rural farm. Householder was taken into custody in connection with a $60 million bribery scheme allegedly involving state officials and associates.

Four others were also arrested: former Ohio Republican Party Chairman Matt Borges, Householder adviser Jeffrey Longstreth and lobbyists Neil Clark and Juan Cespedes.

The charges are linked to a controversial law passed last year that bailed out two nuclear power plants in the state while gutting subsidies for renewable energy and energy efficiency.

The federal complaint describes a years-long bribery campaign to build support for Householder's bid to become House speaker and then pass the nuclear bailout law with his help. Householder won the speakership in January 2019, and the bailout passed in July 2019. It went into effect in October.

Householder, a Republican, represents a district east of Columbus. He first began serving in the Ohio House in 1997 and was speaker from 2001 to 2004, when he stepped down because of term limits. He then worked as Perry County auditor before returning to the House in 2017.

Householder, Longstreth, Clark, Borges and Cespedes were each charged with "conspiracy to participate, directly or indirectly, in the conduct of an enterprise's affairs through a pattern of racketeering activity." The charge carries a maximum of 20 years in prison.

The criminal complaint also charges Generation Now, which it describes as "a 501(c)(4) entity secretly controlled by Householder."

Federal prosecutors say that between March 2017 and March 2020, entities related to an unnamed company — but that would appear to be nuclear power company FirstEnergy Solutions — paid approximately $60 million to Householder's Generation Now.

"Make no mistake, this is Larry Householder's 501 (c)(4)," U.S. Attorney David DeVillers told reporters on Tuesday. The money from the scheme was spent to the detriment of other political candidates and the people of Ohio, DeVillers said.

Members of Householder's enterprise used those payments for their own personal benefit and to gain support for Householder's bid to become speaker, prosecutors say.

"In the Spring and Fall of 2018, the Enterprise spent millions in Company A money to support House candidates involved in primary and general elections whom the Enterprise believed both would vote for Householder as Speaker and, ultimately, would follow his lead as Speaker and vote for bailout legislation for Company A," the complaint states.

In exchange for payments, prosecutors say, Householder and his associates helped pass House Bill 6, then worked to ensure it went into effect by defeating a ballot initiative.

The plan worked. The complaint says Householder-backed candidates that benefited from money from Generation Now helped to elect Householder as the Speaker. House Bill 6 was introduced three months into his term – legislation worth $1.3 billion to Company A.

Regular payments to Householder's secret company from Company A began in March 2017, a couple months after he took a trip on Company A's private jet, according to the federal complaint. But the payments got much bigger after the legislation was introduced: In May 2019, while the bill was pending before lawmakers, Company A allegedly wired $8 million to Generation Now.

Householder and his associates used some of the money on mailers and advertising to support the legislation, and some of it for their own benefit, prosecutors say.

The bill was passed by a vote of 51-38. After the bill was signed into law by Gov. Mike DeWine, a campaign began to organize a ballot initiative to overturn the law. Company A-controlled accounts responded by wiring $38 million to Householder's company between July and October 2019.

In total, Company A allegedly paid the Householder enterprise $60 million over a three-year period, in exchange for the billion-dollar-bailout.

Prosecutors say the payments were "akin to bags of cash – unlike campaign or PAC contributions, they were not regulated, not reported, not subject to public scrutiny—and the Enterprise freely spent the bribe payments to further the Enterprise's political interests and to enrich themselves."

Prosecutors say that while there are no charges yet against Company A, the investigation is ongoing. Preliminary hearings are set for early August.

At a Tuesday court hearing, the defendants were ordered to surrender any firearms and to remain within the Southern District of Ohio. They are barred from communicating with anyone who may become a witness in the trial, including the other men charged Tuesday. Those with passports were ordered to surrender them.

Householder has faced scrutiny before. In 2004, there were reports of his engaging in alleged corrupt activity, though he was never charged.

Gov. Mike DeWine called for Householder's resignation after the charges were announced on Tuesday afternoon.

"I am deeply concerned about the allegations of wrongdoing issued today by the U.S. Attorney's Office," DeWine tweeted. "Because of the nature of these charges, it will be impossible for Speaker Householder to effectively lead the Ohio House of Representatives; therefore, I am calling on Speaker Householder to resign immediately. This is a sad day for Ohio."

Last year's nuclear bailout law tacked on a charge to residents' power bills, sending $150 million a year to the nuclear power plants. They are owned by the company Energy Harbor, which was previously known as FirstEnergy Solutions.

The law also included a subsidy for two coal plants.

NPR member station WOSU reported that FirstEnergy contributed more than $150,000 to Ohio House Republicans in the run-up to the 2018 election — including over $25,000 in donations to Householder's campaign.

"According to the state lobbyist database, Energy Harbor is the only client listed for Cespedes," WOSU reported. "Borges also worked as a lobbyist for FirstEnergy Solutions, while Longstreth is connected to Generation Now, which campaigned against the bailout referendum."

Rethuglicans are going to find it hard to run on a platform of "law and order" when so many of them keep ending up behind bars.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 21, 2020, 10:27:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 21, 2020, 08:48:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 08:28:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 21, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
https://twitter.com/andy_resist_/status/1285280976751325184?s=21

LAW AND ORDER!!!

Maybe you should have posted this where it belongs,  on the "Many Faces of Serbian Politics" Thread
he thinks all police are like the ruc that's the real problem with most boys on here .
Bit unfair on the RUC for you to compare them to American police.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 21, 2020, 10:30:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 10:22:49 PM

Rethuglicans are going to find it hard to run on a platform of "law and order" when so many of them keep ending up behind bars.
Nah, like all fascists they've always been self-conscious grifters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 21, 2020, 11:01:25 PM
Trump said tonight he wishes Ghislaine Maxwell well...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:03:14 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 21, 2020, 11:01:25 PM
Trump said tonight he wishes Ghislaine Maxwell well...

Lol-what do you expect him to say ?

"I hope she dies from Covid or I hope she commits suicide like Epstein"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on July 22, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:03:14 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 21, 2020, 11:01:25 PM
Trump said tonight he wishes Ghislaine Maxwell well...

Lol-what do you expect him to say ?

"I hope she dies from Covid or I hope she commits suicide like Epstein"

No, he could have said that he hopes justice is done like most normal people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on July 22, 2020, 09:06:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:03:14 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 21, 2020, 11:01:25 PM
Trump said tonight he wishes Ghislaine Maxwell well...

Lol-what do you expect him to say ?

"I hope she dies from Covid or I hope she commits suicide like Epstein"
More mental gymnastics from the "Im not a Trump supporter" ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 10:40:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 05:39:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 05:29:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 12:45:39 PMLOL and you do realize that some of the "press" (and "medics") you read about are just internet bloggers who support the rioters

Yes, the news crews reporting live to an international audience of hundreds of thousands if not millions that were getting shot at or arrested by the police were "internet bloggers".  ::)

Hence my use of the word "some" (and I would venture to say most is probably more accurate)

I don't get my news from bloggers.


Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 05:39:37 PMIn the middle of a riot with projectiles and teargas flying, I don't think the cops are taking off their riot gear to inspect press passes. If they're clearing an area, while legally the press may be exempt from complying, it's very easy to get caught in the middle

That's pathetic. In the videos I seen, the police were under no threat and anything airborne was from their own arms.

As you well know, they also don't need to take off riot gear to inspect passes. As you also well know, the press were not in the road and were asking where to stand and where to go. Instead they got shot at and arrested.


Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 05:39:37 PMI notice how none of you guys are offering any support to the 49 officers assaulted by a mob in Chicago last Friday evening, of whom 18 were hospitalized

I was unaware of it till now. Yep, mindless assaults on both sides are to be condemned.

Now, if any of those officers were engaged in assaulting someone then my sympathies for that/those particular officer/s wanes considerably.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 10:40:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 05:39:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 05:29:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 12:45:39 PMLOL and you do realize that some of the "press" (and "medics") you read about are just internet bloggers who support the rioters

Yes, the news crews reporting live to an international audience of hundreds of thousands if not millions that were getting shot at or arrested by the police were "internet bloggers".  ::)

Hence my use of the word "some" (and I would venture to say most is probably more accurate)

I don't get my news from bloggers.


Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 05:39:37 PMIn the middle of a riot with projectiles and teargas flying, I don't think the cops are taking off their riot gear to inspect press passes. If they're clearing an area, while legally the press may be exempt from complying, it's very easy to get caught in the middle

That's pathetic. In the videos I seen, the police were under no threat and anything airborne was from their own arms.

As you well know, they also don't need to take off riot gear to inspect passes. As you also well know, the press were not in the road and were asking where to stand and where to go. Instead they got shot at and arrested.


Quote from: whitey on July 21, 2020, 05:39:37 PMI notice how none of you guys are offering any support to the 49 officers assaulted by a mob in Chicago last Friday evening, of whom 18 were hospitalized

I was unaware of it till now. Yep, mindless assaults on both sides are to be condemned.

Now, if any of those officers were engaged in assaulting someone then my sympathies for that/those particular officer/s wanes considerably.

Believe what you want.

https://twitter.com/FarleyMedia/status/1278647659977338882?s=20
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 12:30:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
Believe what you want.

https://twitter.com/FarleyMedia/status/1278647659977338882?s=20

**WARNING**
More Strawmen inbound from Whitey.  ::)



I have no idea who the f**k that is...

Does 'Masquerading as "Press"' entail running around with "press" written on your face mask?

I must have missed the bit where he had a supporting crew, a camera, cam mic, and was filming live across one of the largest news networks in the USA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 12:30:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
Believe what you want.

https://twitter.com/FarleyMedia/status/1278647659977338882?s=20

**WARNING**
More Strawmen inbound from Whitey.  ::)



I have no idea who the f**k that is...

Does 'Masquerading as "Press"' entail running around with "press" written on your face mask?

I must have missed the bit where he had a supporting crew, a camera, cam mic, and was filming live across one of the largest news networks in the USA.

LOL

Self styled: "Journalists" "Medics" and now "Moms".

They're Anarchists and agitators who apply these labels to themselves. Nothing to do with BLM. In fact some of the BLM folks are getting sick of them

https://youtu.be/I8678f2FAzo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 22, 2020, 02:08:27 PM
Anarchists and agitators?

This is the police you're talking about, yeah?

I would have thrown thugs and terrorists in there but let's be nice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 12:30:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
Believe what you want.

https://twitter.com/FarleyMedia/status/1278647659977338882?s=20

**WARNING**
More Strawmen inbound from Whitey.  ::)



I have no idea who the f**k that is...

Does 'Masquerading as "Press"' entail running around with "press" written on your face mask?

I must have missed the bit where he had a supporting crew, a camera, cam mic, and was filming live across one of the largest news networks in the USA.

LOL

Self styled: "Journalists" "Medics" and now "Moms".

They're Anarchists and agitators who apply these labels to themselves. Nothing to do with BLM. In fact some of the BLM folks are getting sick of them

https://youtu.be/I8678f2FAzo

I dunno why you keep pulling up instances of this nature - given the original discussion point was Americans watching their TV in horror as their own police forces shot rubber bullets at them or arrested them.

Do you really think that tens of thousands of americans came onto the streets to protest because of the actions of the strawmen you keep finding?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2020, 02:54:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 12:30:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
Believe what you want.

https://twitter.com/FarleyMedia/status/1278647659977338882?s=20

**WARNING**
More Strawmen inbound from Whitey.  ::)



I have no idea who the f**k that is...

Does 'Masquerading as "Press"' entail running around with "press" written on your face mask?

I must have missed the bit where he had a supporting crew, a camera, cam mic, and was filming live across one of the largest news networks in the USA.

LOL

Self styled: "Journalists" "Medics" and now "Moms".

They're Anarchists and agitators who apply these labels to themselves. Nothing to do with BLM. In fact some of the BLM folks are getting sick of them

https://youtu.be/I8678f2FAzo

I dunno why you keep pulling up instances of this nature - given the original discussion point was Americans watching their TV in horror as their own police forces shot rubber bullets at them or arrested them.

Do you really think that tens of thousands of americans came onto the streets to protest because of the actions of the strawmen you keep finding?


Who's watching "in horror"?

Vicious mobs of Anarchists and rioters are attempting to take over entire cities and have no respect for the rule of law. FFS they have tried to burn down a Federal Courthouse in Portland

The vast majority of these people have absolutely NOTHING to do with BLM.....they're violent criminals and should be treated as such
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on July 22, 2020, 03:39:52 PM
Is the first amendment of the US constitution not as important as the second one?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1285826007023460355 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1285826007023460355)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2020, 03:46:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 22, 2020, 03:39:52 PM
Is the first amendment of the US constitution not as important as the second one?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1285826007023460355 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1285826007023460355)


LOL "The Portland Moms" aka Antifa members wearing yellow tee shirts disobeying legal orders from Law Enforcement

Did you see this video?

https://twitter.com/Brittany3l/status/1285559285032853505?s=20
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 22, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 03:46:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 22, 2020, 03:39:52 PM
Is the first amendment of the US constitution not as important as the second one?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1285826007023460355 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1285826007023460355)


LOL "The Portland Moms" aka Antifa members wearing yellow tee shirts disobeying legal orders from Law Enforcement

Did you see this video?

https://twitter.com/Brittany3l/status/1285559285032853505?s=20
a jewelry store was looted and a h and m set on fire last night , sounds like a protest against police all right.15 people shot at s funeral in Chicago that's where the feds should be going .
Congress woman Presley  calling for cancellation of rent , mortgages and student debt, adding gasoline to an already very hot atmosphere in the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 22, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 22, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:03:14 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 21, 2020, 11:01:25 PM
Trump said tonight he wishes Ghislaine Maxwell well...

Lol-what do you expect him to say ?

"I hope she dies from Covid or I hope she commits suicide like Epstein"

No, he could have said that he hopes justice is done like most normal people.
+1 after such a pathetic reply from whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on July 22, 2020, 04:49:47 PM
Whitey & GMAC...You two never stop.. Do ya.?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 22, 2020, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2020, 10:22:49 PM
More Rethuglican criminality:

QuoteOhio House Speaker Arrested In Connection With $60 Million Bribery Scheme (https://www.npr.org/2020/07/21/893493224/ohio-house-speaker-arrested-in-connection-to-60-million-bribery-scheme)

FBI agents arrested Ohio House Speaker Larry Householder on Tuesday morning at his rural farm. Householder was taken into custody in connection with a $60 million bribery scheme allegedly involving state officials and associates.

Four others were also arrested: former Ohio Republican Party Chairman Matt Borges, Householder adviser Jeffrey Longstreth and lobbyists Neil Clark and Juan Cespedes.

The charges are linked to a controversial law passed last year that bailed out two nuclear power plants in the state while gutting subsidies for renewable energy and energy efficiency.

The federal complaint describes a years-long bribery campaign to build support for Householder's bid to become House speaker and then pass the nuclear bailout law with his help. Householder won the speakership in January 2019, and the bailout passed in July 2019. It went into effect in October.

Householder, a Republican, represents a district east of Columbus. He first began serving in the Ohio House in 1997 and was speaker from 2001 to 2004, when he stepped down because of term limits. He then worked as Perry County auditor before returning to the House in 2017.

Householder, Longstreth, Clark, Borges and Cespedes were each charged with "conspiracy to participate, directly or indirectly, in the conduct of an enterprise's affairs through a pattern of racketeering activity." The charge carries a maximum of 20 years in prison.

The criminal complaint also charges Generation Now, which it describes as "a 501(c)(4) entity secretly controlled by Householder."

Federal prosecutors say that between March 2017 and March 2020, entities related to an unnamed company — but that would appear to be nuclear power company FirstEnergy Solutions — paid approximately $60 million to Householder's Generation Now.

"Make no mistake, this is Larry Householder's 501 (c)(4)," U.S. Attorney David DeVillers told reporters on Tuesday. The money from the scheme was spent to the detriment of other political candidates and the people of Ohio, DeVillers said.

Members of Householder's enterprise used those payments for their own personal benefit and to gain support for Householder's bid to become speaker, prosecutors say.

"In the Spring and Fall of 2018, the Enterprise spent millions in Company A money to support House candidates involved in primary and general elections whom the Enterprise believed both would vote for Householder as Speaker and, ultimately, would follow his lead as Speaker and vote for bailout legislation for Company A," the complaint states.

In exchange for payments, prosecutors say, Householder and his associates helped pass House Bill 6, then worked to ensure it went into effect by defeating a ballot initiative.

The plan worked. The complaint says Householder-backed candidates that benefited from money from Generation Now helped to elect Householder as the Speaker. House Bill 6 was introduced three months into his term – legislation worth $1.3 billion to Company A.

Regular payments to Householder's secret company from Company A began in March 2017, a couple months after he took a trip on Company A's private jet, according to the federal complaint. But the payments got much bigger after the legislation was introduced: In May 2019, while the bill was pending before lawmakers, Company A allegedly wired $8 million to Generation Now.

Householder and his associates used some of the money on mailers and advertising to support the legislation, and some of it for their own benefit, prosecutors say.

The bill was passed by a vote of 51-38. After the bill was signed into law by Gov. Mike DeWine, a campaign began to organize a ballot initiative to overturn the law. Company A-controlled accounts responded by wiring $38 million to Householder's company between July and October 2019.

In total, Company A allegedly paid the Householder enterprise $60 million over a three-year period, in exchange for the billion-dollar-bailout.

Prosecutors say the payments were "akin to bags of cash – unlike campaign or PAC contributions, they were not regulated, not reported, not subject to public scrutiny—and the Enterprise freely spent the bribe payments to further the Enterprise's political interests and to enrich themselves."

Prosecutors say that while there are no charges yet against Company A, the investigation is ongoing. Preliminary hearings are set for early August.

At a Tuesday court hearing, the defendants were ordered to surrender any firearms and to remain within the Southern District of Ohio. They are barred from communicating with anyone who may become a witness in the trial, including the other men charged Tuesday. Those with passports were ordered to surrender them.

Householder has faced scrutiny before. In 2004, there were reports of his engaging in alleged corrupt activity, though he was never charged.

Gov. Mike DeWine called for Householder's resignation after the charges were announced on Tuesday afternoon.

"I am deeply concerned about the allegations of wrongdoing issued today by the U.S. Attorney's Office," DeWine tweeted. "Because of the nature of these charges, it will be impossible for Speaker Householder to effectively lead the Ohio House of Representatives; therefore, I am calling on Speaker Householder to resign immediately. This is a sad day for Ohio."

Last year's nuclear bailout law tacked on a charge to residents' power bills, sending $150 million a year to the nuclear power plants. They are owned by the company Energy Harbor, which was previously known as FirstEnergy Solutions.

The law also included a subsidy for two coal plants.

NPR member station WOSU reported that FirstEnergy contributed more than $150,000 to Ohio House Republicans in the run-up to the 2018 election — including over $25,000 in donations to Householder's campaign.

"According to the state lobbyist database, Energy Harbor is the only client listed for Cespedes," WOSU reported. "Borges also worked as a lobbyist for FirstEnergy Solutions, while Longstreth is connected to Generation Now, which campaigned against the bailout referendum."

Rethuglicans are going to find it hard to run on a platform of "law and order" when so many of them keep ending up behind bars.
do you know that guy was the founder of a political action committee opposing trumps reelection . draining the swamp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 22, 2020, 07:07:46 PM
Nice try. Just because he's in one faction of the Rethuglican party rather than another doesn't change the fact that he's a Rethuglican.

Quoth the NYT:

QuoteAlso arrested in the conspiracy was Matt Borges, a former chairman of the Ohio Republican Party and ally of John Kasich, a former Ohio governor who sought the Republican presidential nomination in 2016. After Donald J. Trump won the presidency in 2016, he intervened to oust Mr. Borges. Last month, Mr. Borges started a super PAC aimed at convincing Republicans to vote against Mr. Trump in November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 22, 2020, 07:09:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 22, 2020, 07:07:46 PM
Nice try. Just because he's in one faction of the Rethuglican party rather than another doesn't change the fact that he's a Rethuglican.

Quoth the NYT:

QuoteAlso arrested in the conspiracy was Matt Borges, a former chairman of the Ohio Republican Party and ally of John Kasich, a former Ohio governor who sought the Republican presidential nomination in 2016. After Donald J. Trump won the presidency in 2016, he intervened to oust Mr. Borges. Last month, Mr. Borges started a super PAC aimed at convincing Republicans to vote against Mr. Trump in November.
kasich is a Democrat now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 22, 2020, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2020, 07:09:12 PM
kasich is a Democrat now
I hear he's a communist now, at least that's what you lot are saying, than again you say that about everybody not in the cult
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 22, 2020, 11:27:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 22, 2020, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2020, 07:09:12 PM
kasich is a Democrat now
I hear he's a communist now, at least that's what you lot are saying, than again you say that about everybody not in the cult

I hear he's in the Ra!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 22, 2020, 11:39:35 PM
I hear he's your Da
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 22, 2020, 11:51:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2020, 07:09:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 22, 2020, 07:07:46 PM
Nice try. Just because he's in one faction of the Rethuglican party rather than another doesn't change the fact that he's a Rethuglican.

Quoth the NYT:

QuoteAlso arrested in the conspiracy was Matt Borges, a former chairman of the Ohio Republican Party and ally of John Kasich, a former Ohio governor who sought the Republican presidential nomination in 2016. After Donald J. Trump won the presidency in 2016, he intervened to oust Mr. Borges. Last month, Mr. Borges started a super PAC aimed at convincing Republicans to vote against Mr. Trump in November.
kasich is a Democrat now

If that is the case, that tells you all you need to know about the state of the Republican Party and the American right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 23, 2020, 12:34:52 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 22, 2020, 11:39:35 PM
I hear he's your Da
my da is no longer with us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 23, 2020, 01:32:08 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 22, 2020, 11:27:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 22, 2020, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2020, 07:09:12 PM
kasich is a Democrat now
I hear he's a communist now, at least that's what you lot are saying, than again you say that about everybody not in the cult

I hear he's in the Ra!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VstDOv0C1do
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 23, 2020, 04:36:39 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 22, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 22, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:03:14 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 21, 2020, 11:01:25 PM
Trump said tonight he wishes Ghislaine Maxwell well...

Lol-what do you expect him to say ?

"I hope she dies from Covid or I hope she commits suicide like Epstein"

No, he could have said that he hopes justice is done like most normal people.
+1 after such a pathetic reply from whitey.

To be fair, Trump rarely throws abusive labels and comments around. Just ask the likes of Kaepernick or Obama or Nancy Pelosi. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on July 23, 2020, 08:45:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2020, 04:36:39 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 22, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 22, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:03:14 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 21, 2020, 11:01:25 PM
Trump said tonight he wishes Ghislaine Maxwell well...

Lol-what do you expect him to say ?

"I hope she dies from Covid or I hope she commits suicide like Epstein"

No, he could have said that he hopes justice is done like most normal people.
+1 after such a pathetic reply from whitey.

To be fair, Trump rarely throws abusive labels and comments around. Just ask the likes of Kaepernick or Obama or Nancy Pelosi. ::)

Alls well, he's just aced the Montreal Cognitive assessment.

Wonder why his doctors felt the need to carry that out!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 23, 2020, 10:43:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 23, 2020, 08:45:00 AM

Alls well, he's just aced the Montreal Cognitive assessment.

Wonder why his doctors felt the need to carry that out!
He's able to hold a glass of water in his hand

Really impressive, and the boastful look on his face when he did so, as if to say "look at that, look how I'm able to hold this glass" said it all

Reminded me of Cork hurling captain Tom Cashman in 1986 when he held up the McCarthy cup on the steps of the Hogan Stand and shouted "to the mayor of Galway - look at that"

The mayor of Galway John Mulholland had said Galway would win easily

Mulholland must have been sickened

The holding of the glass of water was soooooo presidential on Trump's part

A total owning of the libs

At least his supporters on Twitter said so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 23, 2020, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 23, 2020, 08:45:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2020, 04:36:39 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 22, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 22, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2020, 12:03:14 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 21, 2020, 11:01:25 PM
Trump said tonight he wishes Ghislaine Maxwell well...

Lol-what do you expect him to say ?

"I hope she dies from Covid or I hope she commits suicide like Epstein"

No, he could have said that he hopes justice is done like most normal people.
+1 after such a pathetic reply from whitey.

To be fair, Trump rarely throws abusive labels and comments around. Just ask the likes of Kaepernick or Obama or Nancy Pelosi. ::)

Alls well, he's just aced the Montreal Cognitive assessment.

Wonder why his doctors felt the need to carry that out!

Well between himself and Joe, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other at this stage

I think Biden's VP pick will be the most important VP pick in American history, because realistically she will be the real president
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 23, 2020, 04:59:42 PM
This could go into the WTF thread.
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1286101530928611328
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 23, 2020, 05:11:22 PM
Poor old Biden...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on July 24, 2020, 10:51:50 AM
It's Hilary's to lose.............
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on July 24, 2020, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 23, 2020, 04:59:42 PM
This could go into the WTF thread.
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1286101530928611328

It still wouldn't surprise me if trump won because Biden is also a very weak candidate. I very much doubt whether trump will last until 2024 though because it really does look like his dementia is progressing quite rapidly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 24, 2020, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on July 24, 2020, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 23, 2020, 04:59:42 PM
This could go into the WTF thread.
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1286101530928611328

It still wouldn't surprise me if trump won because Biden is also a very weak candidate. I very much doubt whether trump will last until 2024 though because it really does look like his dementia is progressing quite rapidly.
have you seen joe Biden lately?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 30, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k

Masks don't protect the wearer. So Trump killed neither him nor the other guy. That's why he doesn't give one f**k.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on July 30, 2020, 04:24:08 PM
So Trump wants to delay the election. This could go well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on July 30, 2020, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: five points on July 30, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k

Masks don't protect the wearer. So Trump killed neither him nor the other guy. That's why he doesn't give one f**k.

if there hadn't of been a rally then they'd be alive, so Trump culpable to a point on that one.
If everyone in the auditorium had also been wearing masks then there's also a chance they'd be alive.

You know what, stupid people are always with us, let them go to these rallies and what not, but if they take ill from Covid their insurance companies should refuse to payout due to negligence on their part.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 30, 2020, 04:37:46 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 30, 2020, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: five points on July 30, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k

Masks don't protect the wearer. So Trump killed neither him nor the other guy. That's why he doesn't give one f**k.

if there hadn't of been a rally then they'd be alive, so Trump culpable to a point on that one.
If everyone in the auditorium had also been wearing masks then there's also a chance they'd be alive.

You know what, stupid people are always with us, let them go to these rallies and what not, but if they take ill from Covid their insurance companies should refuse to payout due to negligence on their part.

A number of big assumptions there. Did Montgomery even attend any recent rally?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 30, 2020, 04:56:50 PM
Anyone who's stupid enough to (a) go to a rally (b) be around people who aren't wearing masks, shouldn't expect much in the way of sympathy


People need to wise the fvck up until they know exactly how this thing is transmitted

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wbur.org/news/2020/07/29/13-covid-cases-chatham-house-party
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 05:35:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k

The conservative death cult is even taking out its own top people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:11:34 PM


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:24:38 AM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 7/4 (1.75/1)

Biden: 3/5
Trump: 7/4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 05:35:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k


The conservative death cult is even taking out its own top people.
It's a nihilistic death cult

It's laughable the way these lunatics call themselves conservative - they aren't even conservative on the most basic level, which is to preserve the lives of human beings - they're nakedly pro-death, well these guys now have their wish
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:32:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 05:35:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k


The conservative death cult is even taking out its own top people.
It's a nihilistic death cult

It's laughable the way these lunatics call themselves conservative - they aren't even conservative on the most basic level, which is to preserve the lives of human beings - they're nakedly pro-death, well these guys now have their wish

The human race has been infected by some sinister, evil ideologies throughout history, but the modern USAian conservative movement takes some beating. Naziism is now universally considered immoral; and fifty years from now I hope we'll look back at this era of the conservative death cult in the same way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 30, 2020, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 30, 2020, 04:56:50 PM
Anyone who's stupid enough to (a) go to a rally (b) be around people who aren't wearing masks, shouldn't expect much in the way of sympathy


People need to wise the fvck up until they know exactly how this thing is transmitted

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wbur.org/news/2020/07/29/13-covid-cases-chatham-house-party

They're pretty clear at this point that airborne is the primary route of transmission.

The likes of Trump, Pence, Gohmert and the rest are not going to be treated kindly by history. Whatever excuse there was three months ago (and there wasn't one, really), there's none now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 30, 2020, 07:48:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2020, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 30, 2020, 04:56:50 PM
Anyone who's stupid enough to (a) go to a rally (b) be around people who aren't wearing masks, shouldn't expect much in the way of sympathy


People need to wise the fvck up until they know exactly how this thing is transmitted

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wbur.org/news/2020/07/29/13-covid-cases-chatham-house-party

They're pretty clear at this point that airborne is the primary route of transmission.

The likes of Trump, Pence, Gohmert and the rest are not going to be treated kindly by history. Whatever excuse there was three months ago (and there wasn't one, really), there's none now.

That makes sense.

My friend has 2 teenagers who are cashiers in a supermarket. AFIK not one person working there  has caught Covid, in spite of them interacting with hundreds of people per day. All the workers and shoppers are compelled to wear masks and there are clear plastic partitions in place

I'm at the dealership as we speak and every customer and employee is masked up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 30, 2020, 08:29:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 30, 2020, 07:48:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2020, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 30, 2020, 04:56:50 PM
Anyone who's stupid enough to (a) go to a rally (b) be around people who aren't wearing masks, shouldn't expect much in the way of sympathy


People need to wise the fvck up until they know exactly how this thing is transmitted

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wbur.org/news/2020/07/29/13-covid-cases-chatham-house-party

They're pretty clear at this point that airborne is the primary route of transmission.

The likes of Trump, Pence, Gohmert and the rest are not going to be treated kindly by history. Whatever excuse there was three months ago (and there wasn't one, really), there's none now.

That makes sense.

My friend has 2 teenagers who are cashiers in a supermarket. AFIK not one person working there  has caught Covid, in spite of them interacting with hundreds of people per day. All the workers and shoppers are compelled to wear masks and there are clear plastic partitions in place

I'm at the dealership as we speak and every customer and employee is masked up

Yes, I think they'll eventually ease up on the "deep cleaning" stuff. Frequently touched surface cleaning (door handles etc) and frequent hand washing will stay, but the main worry is airborne, not catching it off your Amazon box or a can of Coke or a seat on the subway.

New Mercedes? :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 30, 2020, 10:07:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2020, 08:29:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 30, 2020, 07:48:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2020, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 30, 2020, 04:56:50 PM
Anyone who's stupid enough to (a) go to a rally (b) be around people who aren't wearing masks, shouldn't expect much in the way of sympathy


People need to wise the fvck up until they know exactly how this thing is transmitted

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wbur.org/news/2020/07/29/13-covid-cases-chatham-house-party

They're pretty clear at this point that airborne is the primary route of transmission.

The likes of Trump, Pence, Gohmert and the rest are not going to be treated kindly by history. Whatever excuse there was three months ago (and there wasn't one, really), there's none now.

That makes sense.

My friend has 2 teenagers who are cashiers in a supermarket. AFIK not one person working there  has caught Covid, in spite of them interacting with hundreds of people per day. All the workers and shoppers are compelled to wear masks and there are clear plastic partitions in place

I'm at the dealership as we speak and every customer and employee is masked up

Yes, I think they'll eventually ease up on the "deep cleaning" stuff. Frequently touched surface cleaning (door handles etc) and frequent hand washing will stay, but the main worry is airborne, not catching it off your Amazon box or a can of Coke or a seat on the subway.

New Mercedes? :P

No-wouldn't waste my money

A nice hybrid Highlander (got 270,000 out of the old one and a buddy's son now has it)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 31, 2020, 11:37:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:32:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 05:35:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k


The conservative death cult is even taking out its own top people.
It's a nihilistic death cult

It's laughable the way these lunatics call themselves conservative - they aren't even conservative on the most basic level, which is to preserve the lives of human beings - they're nakedly pro-death, well these guys now have their wish

The human race has been infected by some sinister, evil ideologies throughout history, but the modern USAian conservative movement takes some beating. Naziism is now universally considered immoral; and fifty years from now I hope we'll look back at this era of the conservative death cult in the same way.

You're blinded by hate. It wasn't conservatism that killed many tens of millions in the last century.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 31, 2020, 12:03:03 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 11:37:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:32:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 05:35:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k


The conservative death cult is even taking out its own top people.
It's a nihilistic death cult

It's laughable the way these lunatics call themselves conservative - they aren't even conservative on the most basic level, which is to preserve the lives of human beings - they're nakedly pro-death, well these guys now have their wish

The human race has been infected by some sinister, evil ideologies throughout history, but the modern USAian conservative movement takes some beating. Naziism is now universally considered immoral; and fifty years from now I hope we'll look back at this era of the conservative death cult in the same way.

You're blinded by hate. It wasn't conservatism that killed many tens of millions in the last century.
Gemma O'Doherty got kicked off Twitter last night, figures she'd be looking for somewhere new to spread her insanity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2020, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 11:37:34 AM
You're blinded by hate. It wasn't conservatism that killed many tens of millions in the last century.

A right wing leopard changing its spots?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 31, 2020, 01:08:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 31, 2020, 12:03:03 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 11:37:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:32:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 05:35:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k


The conservative death cult is even taking out its own top people.
It's a nihilistic death cult

It's laughable the way these lunatics call themselves conservative - they aren't even conservative on the most basic level, which is to preserve the lives of human beings - they're nakedly pro-death, well these guys now have their wish

The human race has been infected by some sinister, evil ideologies throughout history, but the modern USAian conservative movement takes some beating. Naziism is now universally considered immoral; and fifty years from now I hope we'll look back at this era of the conservative death cult in the same way.

You're blinded by hate. It wasn't conservatism that killed many tens of millions in the last century.
Gemma O'Doherty got kicked off Twitter last night, figures she'd be looking for somewhere new to spread her insanity
10 out of 10 for originality. Oh wait.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 31, 2020, 01:10:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2020, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 11:37:34 AM
You're blinded by hate. It wasn't conservatism that killed many tens of millions in the last century.

A right wing leopard changing its spots?
The Nazi's weren't conservative. They targeted and wiped out conservatives, most prominently the nobility and clergy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2020, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 01:10:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2020, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 11:37:34 AM
You're blinded by hate. It wasn't conservatism that killed many tens of millions in the last century.

A right wing leopard changing its spots?
The Nazi's weren't conservative. They targeted and wiped out conservatives, most prominently the nobility and clergy.

There is more than one way of measuring conservatism.


But really, your not wrong. The GOP and buddies in the USA are better described by "right wing" politics rather than conservative politics as they only encompass sections of conservatism but are entirely right wing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 31, 2020, 03:17:45 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 01:08:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 31, 2020, 12:03:03 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 11:37:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:32:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 05:35:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 30, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Herman Cain dead from Coronavirus

He attended Trump's Tulsa propaganda rally without a mask

Bill Montgomery, founder of the crypto fascist propaganda group Turning Point USA is also dead from Coronavirus

Trump is literally killing his own people and doesn't give one f**k


The conservative death cult is even taking out its own top people.
It's a nihilistic death cult

It's laughable the way these lunatics call themselves conservative - they aren't even conservative on the most basic level, which is to preserve the lives of human beings - they're nakedly pro-death, well these guys now have their wish

The human race has been infected by some sinister, evil ideologies throughout history, but the modern USAian conservative movement takes some beating. Naziism is now universally considered immoral; and fifty years from now I hope we'll look back at this era of the conservative death cult in the same way.

You're blinded by hate. It wasn't conservatism that killed many tens of millions in the last century.
Gemma O'Doherty got kicked off Twitter last night, figures she'd be looking for somewhere new to spread her insanity
10 out of 10 for originality. Oh wait.
It's quite the irony that such an unoriginal, cliched poster claims to value originality
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on July 31, 2020, 03:21:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2020, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 01:10:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2020, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: five points on July 31, 2020, 11:37:34 AM
You're blinded by hate. It wasn't conservatism that killed many tens of millions in the last century.

A right wing leopard changing its spots?
The Nazi's weren't conservative. They targeted and wiped out conservatives, most prominently the nobility and clergy.

There is more than one way of measuring conservatism.


But really, your not wrong. The GOP and buddies in the USA are better described by "right wing" politics rather than conservative politics as they only encompass sections of conservatism but are entirely right wing.
There are very few people who call themselves conservative who are actually conservative

Eamon Ryan is an example of an actual conservative, but he doesn't call himself a conservative




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 03:53:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:11:34 PM


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:24:38 AM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 7/4 (1.75/1)

Biden: 3/5
Trump: 7/4
are these odds from before joes latest episode where he forgot where he was 5 seconds into his appearance  .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on July 31, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 31, 2020, 03:17:45 PM

It's quite the irony that such an unoriginal, cliched poster claims to value originality

Pot.  Kettle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 03:53:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:11:34 PM


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:24:38 AM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 7/4 (1.75/1)

Biden: 3/5
Trump: 7/4
are these odds from before joes latest episode where he forgot where he was 5 seconds into his appearance  .

Assuming what you say is true, it shows you what a f**k-up Trump is and how sick to the back teeth people are of him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:12:41 PM
About 20 years ago, a dead Democrat beat the Republican candidate to win a Senate seat in Missouri.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 04:20:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 03:53:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:11:34 PM


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:24:38 AM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 7/4 (1.75/1)

Biden: 3/5
Trump: 7/4
are these odds from before joes latest episode where he forgot where he was 5 seconds into his appearance  .

Assuming what you say is true, it shows you what a f**k-up Trump is and how sick to the back teeth people are of him.
the cognitive test trump did that everyone was laughing about joe should do it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
That's the Trump argument for four more years?

An Alzheimer's cognitive test!

Person, man, woman, camera, TV! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
That's the Trump argument for four more years?

An Alzheimer's cognitive test!

Person, man, woman, camera, TV! ;D
who said that ?  Do you think joe could do it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2020, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
That's the Trump argument for four more years?

An Alzheimer's cognitive test!

Person, man, woman, camera, TV! ;D
who said that ?  Do you think joe could do it .

Trump said it.

He went on about it for more than a week.

Clearly he thinks its a winning "issue" for him, presumably to convince people such as yourself that Biden has one foot in the nursing home while he can...er... memorize a small sequence of words.

And the reason he is focused on it is that he has f**k all else going for him. COVID and George Floyd could have been his finest hour, a chance to show he is an intelligent, considered, calm leader of real substance at a time of major crisis when Biden had no choice but to stay in the relative shadows. Instead, he's making up invitations to throw out the first pitch for the Yankees (because he is jealous of Tony Fauci being invited by the Nationals) and promoting a discredited treatment and the demon sperm doctor (and that's just this week). Whatever shortcomings Biden may or may not have, Trump has failed miserably on a whole range of fronts, is clearly not up to the job, and is looking like he will go down as one of the worst presidents of all time.

That dead Missouri senator would probably do a better job.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 31, 2020, 05:42:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
That's the Trump argument for four more years?

An Alzheimer's cognitive test!

Person, man, woman, camera, TV! ;D
who said that ?  Do you think joe could do it .

Trump said it.

He went on about it for more than a week.

Clearly he thinks its a winning "issue" for him, presumably to convince people such as yourself that Biden has one foot in the nursing home while he can...er... memorize a small sequence of words.

And the reason he is focused on it is that he has f**k all else going for him. COVID and George Floyd could have been his finest hour, a chance to show he is an intelligent, considered, calm leader of real substance at a time of major crisis when Biden had no choice but to stay in the relative shadows. Instead, he's making up invitations to throw out the first pitch for the Yankees (because he is jealous of Tony Fauci being invited by the Nationals) and promoting a discredited treatment and the demon sperm doctor (and that's just this week). Whatever shortcomings Biden may or may not have, Trump has failed miserably on a whole range of fronts, is clearly not up to the job, and is looking like he will go down as one of the worst presidents of all time.

That dead Missouri senator would probably do a better job.

Kinda like how he went to that half-empty rally and spent a good ten minutes rambling on in minute detail about how we so skillfully navigated the difficult task of walking down a ramp.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 05:17:37 PMis looking like he will go down as one of the worst presidents of all time.

One of the worst?

While my knowledge on the matter falls far short of exhaustive, I can't think of one US president I have read about that comes anywhere close to the level of ineptitude of Trump. Certainly in the modern era.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2020, 05:45:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 30, 2020, 04:24:08 PM
So Trump wants to delay the election. This could go well.

Yep, interested to hear the thoughts of the right wingers on here regarding that...?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 05:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
That's the Trump argument for four more years?

An Alzheimer's cognitive test!

Person, man, woman, camera, TV! ;D
who said that ?  Do you think joe could do it .

Trump said it.

He went on about it for more than a week.

Clearly he thinks its a winning "issue" for him, presumably to convince people such as yourself that Biden has one foot in the nursing home while he can...er... memorize a small sequence of words.

And the reason he is focused on it is that he has f**k all else going for him. COVID and George Floyd could have been his finest hour, a chance to show he is an intelligent, considered, calm leader of real substance at a time of major crisis when Biden had no choice but to stay in the relative shadows. Instead, he's making up invitations to throw out the first pitch for the Yankees (because he is jealous of Tony Fauci being invited by the Nationals) and promoting a discredited treatment and the demon sperm doctor (and that's just this week). Whatever shortcomings Biden may or may not have, Trump has failed miserably on a whole range of fronts, is clearly not up to the job, and is looking like he will go down as one of the worst presidents of all time.

That dead Missouri senator would probably do a better job.
you are making my point for me why don't the Democrats find a real candidate to run whose not a left wing nut or won't cave into the radical side of the party  ? most people would vote for that candidate if such a candidate existed. Joe has changed virtually every position he has previously taken on issues to appease the more radical side of party . Maybe that's what  the Democrats are now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 31, 2020, 06:04:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 05:48:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 31, 2020, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
That's the Trump argument for four more years?

An Alzheimer's cognitive test!

Person, man, woman, camera, TV! ;D
who said that ?  Do you think joe could do it .

Trump said it.

He went on about it for more than a week.

Clearly he thinks its a winning "issue" for him, presumably to convince people such as yourself that Biden has one foot in the nursing home while he can...er... memorize a small sequence of words.

And the reason he is focused on it is that he has f**k all else going for him. COVID and George Floyd could have been his finest hour, a chance to show he is an intelligent, considered, calm leader of real substance at a time of major crisis when Biden had no choice but to stay in the relative shadows. Instead, he's making up invitations to throw out the first pitch for the Yankees (because he is jealous of Tony Fauci being invited by the Nationals) and promoting a discredited treatment and the demon sperm doctor (and that's just this week). Whatever shortcomings Biden may or may not have, Trump has failed miserably on a whole range of fronts, is clearly not up to the job, and is looking like he will go down as one of the worst presidents of all time.

That dead Missouri senator would probably do a better job.
you are making my point for me why don't the Democrats find a real candidate to run whose not a left wing nut or won't cave into the radical side of the party  ? most people would vote for that candidate if such a candidate existed. Joe has changed virtually every position he has previously taken on issues to appease the more radical side of party . Maybe that's what  the Democrats are now.

If the Democratic base were radical leftists, Joe wouldn't be the candidate. There were plenty such options available. He was dead and buried after Iowa, but subsequently the base coalesced around him as the primary centrist left.

If he was surrendering to the radicals as you claim, he'd be shouting about defunding the police and so on.

He's not.

And I'm not saying Joe is the dream candidate by any stretch of the imagination, but its not on account of his positions.

The GOP is the only party with the radical base and candidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 31, 2020, 06:30:42 PM
House Unites To Reprimand GOP Lawmaker Tied To 11 Ethics Violations (https://www.npr.org/2020/07/31/897657022/house-unites-to-reprimand-gop-lawmaker-tied-to-11-ethics-violations)

The House unanimously passed a rare ethics resolution on Friday morning to reprimand Rep. David Schweikert, R-Ariz., for breaking congressional and campaign finance rules.

Schweikert agreed to pay a $50,000 fine and admitted to 11 ethics violations including the misuse of official funds.

The House Ethics Committee had been investigating Schweikert, who was elected in 2010, for more than two years. Its investigative subcommittee concluded there was "substantial reason" to believe Schweikert violated the government code of ethics, campaign finance laws, and House rules.

House investigators concluded that over a seven year period, Schweikert failed to disclose, or falsely disclosed, $305,000 in loans or loan repayments and failed to report more than $140,000 in campaign contributions.

A 13-page report detailing the committee's investigation and findings points to Schweikert's campaign accepting over $270,000 from his then-chief of staff, Richard Schwab, which is a violation of campaign finance laws.

A statement issued on Thursday by the Ethics Committee also said Schweikert had misused his congressional allowance for "unofficial purposes" and pressured "official staff to perform campaign work."

The findings say Schweikert made "vague or misleading comments" that "allowed him to evade the statue of limitations for the most egregious violations of campaign finance laws."

Continued the report: "Efforts like the ones Rep. Schweikert undertook to delay and impede the [investigative subcommittee] investigation were not only highly detrimental to the committee's work and reputation of the House, they were themselves sanctionable misconduct."

Rep faulted over breach of trust

Speaking before the House on Friday morning, Ethics Committee Chair Rep. Ted Deutch, D-Fla., emphasized the consequence of breaking the public trust.

"One of our most basic obligations as members of Congress is to adhere to the principle that public office is a public trust. To uphold that trust, and to maintain civic confidence in the integrity of this body, we as members have bound ourselves by certain standards of official conduct," he said.

Deutch went on to encourage congressional members and staff to approach the committee if they have ethics questions to "avoid the mistakes like those made by Rep. Schweikert."

"The committee's nonpartisan advisory staff is always available to answer any ethics related questions, to hold special training sessions for members and employees in addition to the mandated annual ethics trainings and to issue advisory opinions upon request," he said.

Schweikert filed a response to the committee saying that while he thought he could refute some allegations, he decided to settle because the process "was time consuming and extremely costly."

The House reprimand is a major blow to Schweikert, who faces a tough race in Arizona's competitive 6th district, which spans Phoenix and Scottsdale.

Four Democrats will face off in an Aug. 4 primary.

Schweikert's top Democratic opponent, Dr. Hiral Tipirneni, said Schweikert had "abused his power and betrayed the public trust."

As NPR member station KJZZ's Steve Goldstein reports, Schweikert was already expected to face an intense challenge, partly because the electorate wants to see increased action on combating racial injustice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 31, 2020, 10:56:44 PM
Conservative death cult update:

The White House reportedly scrapped a national testing plan because the virus was mostly hitting blue states (https://theweek.com/speedreads/928628/white-house-reportedly-scrapped-national-testing-plan-because-virus-mostly-hitting-blue-states)

Lives likely could've been saved if the White House had focused on people rather than politics when the pandemic began, Vanity Fair reports (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/how-jared-kushners-secret-testing-plan-went-poof-into-thin-air).

Unlike other countries, the U.S. has struggled to present a unified national strategy on COVID-19 testing, and the country now leads the world both in confirmed coronavirus cases and deaths. But it reportedly had experts developing a testing plan since the virus' beginnings — and then scrapped it entirely once it appeared the virus was largely hitting Democratic states, one expert tells Vanity Fair.

Despite his lack of scientific or governmental experience, President Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner took charge of the testing plan and stacked a team with "bankers and billionaires," Vanity Fair writes. But diagnostic testing experts were eventually called in, and the team created a plan to tackle testing supply shortages and delays in reporting results.

"The plan, though imperfect, was a starting point," Vanity Fair writes, and "would have put us in a fundamentally different place" today, one person who worked on it said. But it faced resistance from the top of the White House, where Trump reportedly worried high test numbers would hurt the economy and his re-election prospects. And perhaps most disturbingly, one member of the team suggested there was no point in rolling out the plan because the virus seemed to be hitting blue states, an expert told Vanity Fair. "The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy," the expert said.

All of that might explain why Kushner was so hopeful just a few months ago.

Kathryn Krawczyk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
Trump will ban TikTok in the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53619287

If he does this alone he's earned another 4 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on August 01, 2020, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2020, 04:12:41 PM
About 20 years ago, a dead Democrat beat the Republican candidate to win a Senate seat in Missouri.

I thought that was only a West Wing story, didn't realise they based it on something real.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 01, 2020, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
Trump will ban TikTok in the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53619287

If he does this alone he's earned another 4 years.

Yes, Tik Tok is the major problem facing the US and will balance out the rest of his presidency and make another four years worth it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 01, 2020, 05:25:31 PM
Meanwhile in other news, so far today, 5 people have been murdered in the city of Chicago

There was just one murder yesterday....a 9 year old boy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 01, 2020, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
Trump will ban TikTok in the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53619287

If he does this alone he's earned another 4 years.
Cancel culture in action

The Trump regime is the biggest example of cancel culture around
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 06:23:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 01, 2020, 05:25:31 PM
Meanwhile in other news, so far today, 5 people have been murdered in the city of Chicago

There was just one murder yesterday....a 9 year old boy

Gun culture is ok and thoughts and payers with the families of these people killed needlessly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 01, 2020, 07:52:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 01, 2020, 05:25:31 PM
Meanwhile in other news, so far today, 5 people have been murdered in the city of Chicago

There was just one murder yesterday....a 9 year old boy
beetlejuice doesn't think they have a gun violence problem there though .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 01, 2020, 08:13:48 PM
Mad that the NRA fanbois here are complaining about gun violence

You couldn't make it up

They only complain about gun violence by blacks, mind, never by whites...that's...interesting

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 01, 2020, 08:34:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 01, 2020, 08:13:48 PM
Mad that the NRA fanbois here are complaining about gun violence

You couldn't make it up

They only complain about gun violence by blacks, mind, never by whites...that's...interesting
there is no mention of skin color of victims or perpetrators  by me or whitey here your true opinions and bias coming through maybe , I don't care what color they are i.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 01, 2020, 08:43:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2020, 08:34:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 01, 2020, 08:13:48 PM
Mad that the NRA fanbois here are complaining about gun violence

You couldn't make it up

They only complain about gun violence by blacks, mind, never by whites...that's...interesting
there is no mention of skin color of victims or perpetrators  by me or whitey here your true opinions and bias coming through maybe , I don't care what color they are i.

I love when racists mendaciously accuse others of racism, it's almost like the whole online right-wing arguing strategy is an entirely self conscious grift, a sort of camp performance art, to try to deflect from the fact that right-wing politics is essentially sociopathy which has no answers to any of the major problems facing societies anywhere and which offers only misery to people*



*people who aren't billionaires, anyway
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 01, 2020, 09:11:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 01, 2020, 08:43:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2020, 08:34:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 01, 2020, 08:13:48 PM
Mad that the NRA fanbois here are complaining about gun violence

You couldn't make it up

They only complain about gun violence by blacks, mind, never by whites...that's...interesting
there is no mention of skin color of victims or perpetrators  by me or whitey here your true opinions and bias coming through maybe , I don't care what color they are i.

I love when racists mendaciously accuse others of racism, it's almost like the whole online right-wing arguing strategy is an entirely self conscious grift, a sort of camp performance art, to try to deflect from the fact that right-wing politics is essentially sociopathy which has no answers to any of the major problems facing societies anywhere and which offers only misery to people*



*people who aren't billionaires, anyway

2 weeks ago yesterday a mob of RIOTERS injured 49 Chicago police officers in an effort to pull down a statue of Christopher Columbus.

The weekend of the George Floyd riots 85 people were shot and 24 people were killed

Maybe if these thousands of RIOTERS actually put their energies and resources into helping these communities rather than throwing hissy fits about everything and anything they might be better off (but of course that's not what it's about is it)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:01:26 AM
So what IS it all about for the RIOTERS whitey?

How about the protesters in general?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 02, 2020, 12:47:32 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:01:26 AM
So what IS it all about for the RIOTERS whitey?

How about the protesters in general?
The US is and always has been a white supremacist ethno-state

As soon as one form of racial caste system is dismantled, another has taken its place

Slavery was replaced by Jim Crow which was replaced by mass incarceration and the deliberate use of the criminal justice system to create a permanent black undercaste

White supremacists like "whitey" hate any challenge to white supremacy and are prepared to dedicate a large amount of time to demonising anybody who challenges white supremacy in any way

This is because they desperately want to maintain white supremacy

White supremacism is a minority position and the Republican party is nakedly about minority rule

Divide, demonise and conquer tactics against wholly righteous and just moral and human causes are essential for this to happen

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 02, 2020, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:01:26 AM
So what IS it all about for the RIOTERS whitey?

How about the protesters in general?
why are they burning bibles in Portland now ? What does that do for them .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2020, 11:27:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 02, 2020, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:01:26 AM
So what IS it all about for the RIOTERS whitey?

How about the protesters in general?
why are they burning bibles in Portland now ? What does that do for them .

Don't have a clue.

But I'm sure you have a "theory".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 03, 2020, 10:06:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2020, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
Trump will ban TikTok in the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53619287

If he does this alone he's earned another 4 years.

Yes, Tik Tok is the major problem facing the US and will balance out the rest of his presidency and make another four years worth it.

Big enough for India, a country of 1.4billion, to ban it, with Japan and Australia considering the same. But because Trump said it then it must be bad, right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 03, 2020, 10:11:28 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 03, 2020, 10:06:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2020, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
Trump will ban TikTok in the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53619287

If he does this alone he's earned another 4 years.

Yes, Tik Tok is the major problem facing the US and will balance out the rest of his presidency and make another four years worth it.

Big enough for India, a country of 1.4billion, to ban it, with Japan and Australia considering the same. But because Trump said it then it must be bad, right?
India is ruled by a fascist party

It's gas the way the Trumpbots complain about so called "cancel culture" and proclaim themselves "freeze peach" warriors, yet they are all about banning things and clamping down on free speech

The hypocrisy of it all, then again Trump and Trumpbots are unshameable

You need unshameability when your whole schtick is an entirely self conscious fraud



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2020, 11:57:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 03, 2020, 10:06:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2020, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
Trump will ban TikTok in the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53619287

If he does this alone he's earned another 4 years.

Yes, Tik Tok is the major problem facing the US and will balance out the rest of his presidency and make another four years worth it.

Big enough for India, a country of 1.4billion, to ban it, with Japan and Australia considering the same. But because Trump said it then it must be bad, right?

I didn't say anything about what Trump said.

I commented on your opinion that his banning of Tik Tok would, on it's own, make Trump and his outrageous, incompetent, bigoted, damaging, freakshow of a presidency worth inflicting on the world for another term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 03, 2020, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2020, 11:57:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 03, 2020, 10:06:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2020, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
Trump will ban TikTok in the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53619287

If he does this alone he's earned another 4 years.

Yes, Tik Tok is the major problem facing the US and will balance out the rest of his presidency and make another four years worth it.

Big enough for India, a country of 1.4billion, to ban it, with Japan and Australia considering the same. But because Trump said it then it must be bad, right?

I didn't say anything about what Trump said.

I commented on your opinion that his banning of Tik Tok would, on it's own, make Trump and his outrageous, incompetent, bigoted, damaging, freakshow of a presidency worth inflicting on the world for another term.

So you agree Tiktok is a major problem. So trump is right to take action? Good stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2020, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 03, 2020, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2020, 11:57:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 03, 2020, 10:06:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2020, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
Trump will ban TikTok in the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53619287

If he does this alone he's earned another 4 years.

Yes, Tik Tok is the major problem facing the US and will balance out the rest of his presidency and make another four years worth it.

Big enough for India, a country of 1.4billion, to ban it, with Japan and Australia considering the same. But because Trump said it then it must be bad, right?

I didn't say anything about what Trump said.

I commented on your opinion that his banning of Tik Tok would, on it's own, make Trump and his outrageous, incompetent, bigoted, damaging, freakshow of a presidency worth inflicting on the world for another term.

So you agree Tiktok is a major problem. So trump is right to take action? Good stuff.

Its A problem. One of many when it comes to privacy concerns on the internet in general and, specifically, China.

That said, I seriously doubt its one Trump would have given a second thought to were it not for the media reports about a bunch of kids trying to use it against him with his Tulsa rally.

It is certainly not an issue which should feature among arguments for a Trump second term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 04:49:34 PM
There are two possibilities.

1 - Trump diligently read his briefings and listened to his highly qualified technical advisers about the security risks posed by TikTok and decided to ban it after a careful and nuanced discussion about the advantages, disadvantages, and implications of such a move.
2 - Trump saw Sarah Cooper's latest lip-sync parody of him, took it personally, and decided to ban TikTok.

Which do you think is more likely?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 04:57:53 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/100696666_2948408548569999_6994964882806276096_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=FyBGCZUSq10AX9kMYUA&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=64796cb1e376718c5e2943d2511779b8&oe=5F4F1704)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 03, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 04:49:34 PM
There are two possibilities.

1 - Trump diligently read his briefings and listened to his highly qualified technical advisers about the security risks posed by TikTok and decided to ban it after a careful and nuanced discussion about the advantages, disadvantages, and implications of such a move.
2 - Trump saw Sarah Cooper's latest lip-sync parody of him, took it personally, and decided to ban TikTok.

Which do you think is more likely?
the irony is Sarah cooper will be out of work if trump is out of office and the grey clad rioters in your other post are the Democrat party .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 03, 2020, 05:37:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 04:49:34 PM
There are two possibilities.

1 - Trump diligently read his briefings and listened to his highly qualified technical advisers about the security risks posed by TikTok and decided to ban it after a careful and nuanced discussion about the advantages, disadvantages, and implications of such a move.
2 - Trump saw Sarah Cooper's latest lip-sync parody of him, took it personally, and decided to ban TikTok.

Which do you think is more likely?
the irony is Sarah cooper will be out of work if trump is out of office and the grey clad rioters in your other post are the Democrat party .

You conveniently forget that Reagan converted the lads in the grey uniforms to the Republican Party with racist dog whistles...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2020, 06:00:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 04:49:34 PM
There are two possibilities.

1 - Trump diligently read his briefings and listened to his highly qualified technical advisers about the security risks posed by TikTok and decided to ban it after a careful and nuanced discussion about the advantages, disadvantages, and implications of such a move.
2 - Trump saw Sarah Cooper's latest lip-sync parody of him, took it personally, and decided to ban TikTok.

Which do you think is more likely?
the irony is Sarah cooper will be out of work if trump is out of office and the grey clad rioters in your other post are the Democrat party .

Those confederates are the ideological ancestors/counterparts of much of today's conservative movement.

That they switched parties after the mid-60s doesn't change that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 06:07:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 04:49:34 PM
There are two possibilities.

1 - Trump diligently read his briefings and listened to his highly qualified technical advisers about the security risks posed by TikTok and decided to ban it after a careful and nuanced discussion about the advantages, disadvantages, and implications of such a move.
2 - Trump saw Sarah Cooper's latest lip-sync parody of him, took it personally, and decided to ban TikTok.

Which do you think is more likely?
the irony is Sarah cooper will be out of work if trump is out of office and the grey clad rioters in your other post are the Democrat party .

Ah, the old "Democrats used to be the racist party, therefore my conscience is clear today" defense. If Abe Lincoln tried to run for the GOP nomination today he'd be laughed off the stage and denounced on Fox News as an "SJW," and well you know it.

As for Sarah Cooper, she's an author and standup comedian. She's gonna have plenty of work when the Trump nightmare is over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
Never ceases to amaze me.

The continually throw out the Democrat's history vis a vis the south and the civil war as some kind of Q.E.D. as if the past fifty years never happened.

Then at the same time they turn around and go apeshit about the confederate momuments, keeping the names of confederate generals on military bases, all while they fly the confederate battle flag at Trump rallies and until very recently at official state venues in certain places and on many of their properties and vehicles. And of course deny that racism is a real problem and try to falsely claim that white christian males are in fact the "real" victims.

Something doesn't quite compute.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2020, 06:16:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 06:07:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 04:49:34 PM
There are two possibilities.

1 - Trump diligently read his briefings and listened to his highly qualified technical advisers about the security risks posed by TikTok and decided to ban it after a careful and nuanced discussion about the advantages, disadvantages, and implications of such a move.
2 - Trump saw Sarah Cooper's latest lip-sync parody of him, took it personally, and decided to ban TikTok.

Which do you think is more likely?
the irony is Sarah cooper will be out of work if trump is out of office and the grey clad rioters in your other post are the Democrat party .

Ah, the old "Democrats used to be the racist party, therefore my conscience is clear today" defense. If Abe Lincoln tried to run for the GOP nomination today he'd be laughed off the stage and denounced on Fox News as an "SJW," and well you know it.

As for Sarah Cooper, she's an author and standup comedian. She's have plenty of work when the Trump nightmare is over.

Whether she disappears or not, she is doing sterling work right now.

That it gets under his self-obsessed, over-sensitive, insecure hyper-thin skin is brilliant!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2020, 06:41:24 PM
He won't like this

QuoteBreaking via NYT: The Manhattan district attorney's office has suggested that it has been investigating Trump and his company for possible bank and insurance fraud, a significantly broader inquiry than the prosecutors have acknowledged in the past.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/nyregion/donald-trump-taxes-cyrus-vance.html

QuoteNEW YORK (AP) — New York prosecutor seeking Trump's tax returns cites reports of 'protracted criminal conduct' at the Trump Organization.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2020, 07:24:47 PM
No surprise there. This administration is one big criminal enterprise. Trump could be the first US president to actually get locked up. Here's hoping.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2020, 07:39:23 PM
I'll be happy enough with him just getting the boot from the electorate. He himself may be corrupt as f**k, but his political movement is way bigger than just Trump the man. A massive hiding might cause the GOP to rethink things as well, but I'll not hold my breath. They were there after 2012 before doubling down on ignorance and bigotry four years later.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 03, 2020, 08:33:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2020, 07:39:23 PM
I'll be happy enough with him just getting the boot from the electorate. He himself may be corrupt as f**k, but his political movement is way bigger than just Trump the man. A massive hiding might cause the GOP to rethink things as well, but I'll not hold my breath. They were there after 2012 before doubling down on ignorance and bigotry four years later.
Failure to punish criminality invites a whole more of it. It rewards it.

It's just as important that these bastards end up behind bars as it is that they get turfed out of power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 03, 2020, 09:27:08 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2020, 06:41:24 PM
He won't like this

QuoteBreaking via NYT: The Manhattan district attorney's office has suggested that it has been investigating Trump and his company for possible bank and insurance fraud, a significantly broader inquiry than the prosecutors have acknowledged in the past.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/nyregion/donald-trump-taxes-cyrus-vance.html

QuoteNEW YORK (AP) — New York prosecutor seeking Trump's tax returns cites reports of 'protracted criminal conduct' at the Trump Organization.
[/quote) I'm sure it will be madcows lead story tonight .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 03, 2020, 09:47:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2020, 09:27:08 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2020, 06:41:24 PM
He won't like this

QuoteBreaking via NYT: The Manhattan district attorney's office has suggested that it has been investigating Trump and his company for possible bank and insurance fraud, a significantly broader inquiry than the prosecutors have acknowledged in the past.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/nyregion/donald-trump-taxes-cyrus-vance.html

QuoteNEW YORK (AP) — New York prosecutor seeking Trump's tax returns cites reports of 'protracted criminal conduct' at the Trump Organization.
I'm sure it will be madcows lead story tonight .
Thanks for that. What a contribution. And definitely not the contribution of a misogynist creep who openly eulogises massive corruption by a US president because it "triggers the libs", or something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 03, 2020, 11:15:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 03, 2020, 09:47:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 03, 2020, 09:27:08 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2020, 06:41:24 PM
He won't like this

QuoteBreaking via NYT: The Manhattan district attorney's office has suggested that it has been investigating Trump and his company for possible bank and insurance fraud, a significantly broader inquiry than the prosecutors have acknowledged in the past.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/nyregion/donald-trump-taxes-cyrus-vance.html

QuoteNEW YORK (AP) — New York prosecutor seeking Trump's tax returns cites reports of 'protracted criminal conduct' at the Trump Organization.
I'm sure it will be madcows lead story tonight .
Thanks for that. What a contribution. And definitely not the contribution of a misogynist creep who openly eulogises massive corruption by a US president because it "triggers the libs", or something.
look back over your own posts and see what names you have called  posters you sanctimonious ass.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 04, 2020, 04:32:45 PM
Just a complete car crash of an interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaaTZkqsaxY
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 04, 2020, 04:42:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 04, 2020, 04:32:45 PM
Just a complete car crash of an interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaaTZkqsaxY

I can't watch it.

Its easy to laugh at his complete idiocy and delusion, but then you remember that there is a large minority of the population that still believes in this clown and we could be stuck with him for another four years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 06:55:26 PM
He'd shouldn't do interviews, he's getting more like Homer Simpson by the day..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1pWCkW95W0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 04, 2020, 07:07:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 06:55:26 PM
He'd shouldn't do interviews, he's getting more like Homer Simpson by the day..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1pWCkW95W0

Who's advising him?

At least Boris's advisors were smart enough not to put him in front of Andrew Neil pre-election and take that hit rather than the car crash it could have been.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 07:13:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 04, 2020, 07:07:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 06:55:26 PM
He'd shouldn't do interviews, he's getting more like Homer Simpson by the day..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1pWCkW95W0

Who's advising him?

At least Boris's advisors were smart enough not to put him in front of Andrew Neil pre-election and take that hit rather than the car crash it could have been.

He's advising himself!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 04, 2020, 10:20:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 04, 2020, 04:42:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 04, 2020, 04:32:45 PM
Just a complete car crash of an interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaaTZkqsaxY

I can't watch it.

Its easy to laugh at his complete idiocy and delusion, but then you remember that there is a large minority of the population that still believes in this clown and we could be stuck with him for another four years.

I feel sorry for the majority of good American people, they require leadership in these times but they have that idiot as president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on August 04, 2020, 10:47:30 PM
I'm surprised he didn't walk out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 04, 2020, 11:26:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 07:13:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 04, 2020, 07:07:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 06:55:26 PM
He'd shouldn't do interviews, he's getting more like Homer Simpson by the day..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1pWCkW95W0

Who's advising him?

At least Boris's advisors were smart enough not to put him in front of Andrew Neil pre-election and take that hit rather than the car crash it could have been.

He's advising himself!!

A stable genius does not need advice from anyone!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 11:37:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 04, 2020, 11:26:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 07:13:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 04, 2020, 07:07:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 06:55:26 PM
He'd shouldn't do interviews, he's getting more like Homer Simpson by the day..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1pWCkW95W0

Who's advising him?

At least Boris's advisors were smart enough not to put him in front of Andrew Neil pre-election and take that hit rather than the car crash it could have been.

He's advising himself!!

A stable genius does not need advice from anyone!

Hitter Stalin and the rest had that stable genius approach.

Person....woman ... man... camera ... tv...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2020, 05:38:08 PM
Crazy Uncle Joe (who I actually like) is giving Trump a run for his money in the train wreck department

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/08/05/joe-biden-reporter-cognitive-test-391771
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 05:38:08 PM
Crazy Uncle Joe (who I actually like) is giving Trump a run for his money in the train wreck department

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/08/05/joe-biden-reporter-cognitive-test-391771

?

Yes.

A sharp response to questioning his mental faculties is comparable to the TheDonald's regular mumbling, bumbling diatribes which are distantly divorced from reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2020, 05:49:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 05:38:08 PM
Crazy Uncle Joe (who I actually like) is giving Trump a run for his money in the train wreck department

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/08/05/joe-biden-reporter-cognitive-test-391771

?

Yes.

A sharp response to questioning his mental faculties is comparable to the TheDonald's regular mumbling, bumbling diatribes which are distantly divorced from reality.

Implying that an African American is a drug addict.....if a Republican did that the MSM would be calling for them to withdraw from the race
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 06:39:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 05:49:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 05:38:08 PM
Crazy Uncle Joe (who I actually like) is giving Trump a run for his money in the train wreck department

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/08/05/joe-biden-reporter-cognitive-test-391771

?

Yes.

A sharp response to questioning his mental faculties is comparable to the TheDonald's regular mumbling, bumbling diatribes which are distantly divorced from reality.

Implying that an African American is a drug addict.....if a Republican did that the MSM would be calling for them to withdraw from the race


You republicans really don't understand racism do you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 05, 2020, 06:45:27 PM
Has Trump not been racist already?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2020, 06:49:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 06:39:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 05:49:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 05:38:08 PM
Crazy Uncle Joe (who I actually like) is giving Trump a run for his money in the train wreck department

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/08/05/joe-biden-reporter-cognitive-test-391771

?

Yes.

A sharp response to questioning his mental faculties is comparable to the TheDonald's regular mumbling, bumbling diatribes which are distantly divorced from reality.

Implying that an African American is a drug addict.....if a Republican did that the MSM would be calling for them to withdraw from the race


You republicans really don't understand racism do you?

I understand bumbling idiocy and double standards pretty well though
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 05, 2020, 07:37:19 PM
Mexicans are rapists, was one of Trumps belters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .

That is not at all what I said.

And the relative outcomes of state enforcement and actions against blacks and hispanics compared to whites for the same drug offences are pretty damning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:45:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .

That is not at all what I said.

And the relative outcomes of state enforcement and actions against blacks and hispanics compared to whites for the same drug offences are pretty damning.

J70-if a white Republican asked an African American interviewer if he was a "junkie" all hell would break loose
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 05, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:45:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .

That is not at all what I said.

And the relative outcomes of state enforcement and actions against blacks and hispanics compared to whites for the same drug offences are pretty damning.

J70-if a white Republican asked an African American interviewer if he was a "junkie" all hell would break loose

If that is the case, you should probably thank 50 years of GOP policies and rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:45:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .

That is not at all what I said.

And the relative outcomes of state enforcement and actions against blacks and hispanics compared to whites for the same drug offences are pretty damning.

J70-if a white Republican asked an African American interviewer if he was a "junkie" all hell would break loose

If that is the case, you should probably thank 50 years of GOP policies and rhetoric.

I'm not thanking anyone for anything

If a Republican said what Crazy Uncle Joe said, people would be out of their minds with (faux) outrage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 05, 2020, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:45:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .

That is not at all what I said.

And the relative outcomes of state enforcement and actions against blacks and hispanics compared to whites for the same drug offences are pretty damning.

J70-if a white Republican asked an African American interviewer if he was a "junkie" all hell would break loose

If that is the case, you should probably thank 50 years of GOP policies and rhetoric.

I'm not thanking anyone for anything

If a Republican said what Crazy Uncle Joe said, people would be out of their minds with (faux) outrage

So you are outraged because no one is outraged that Biden said something that YOU maintain would have elicited a "faux" outrage response if said by a Republican. And you reject the fact that context, in terms of history, policy and rhetoric, has anything to do with public responses to issues like these.

Ok then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2020, 09:11:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .

Powdered cocaine - used by (rich) white people: Not much enforcement
Crack cocaine - used by (poor) black people: Heavy duty enforcement and mass incarceration

Anybody who says the war on drugs isn't racially motivated is only codding themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2020, 09:21:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:45:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .

That is not at all what I said.

And the relative outcomes of state enforcement and actions against blacks and hispanics compared to whites for the same drug offences are pretty damning.

J70-if a white Republican asked an African American interviewer if he was a "junkie" all hell would break loose

If that is the case, you should probably thank 50 years of GOP policies and rhetoric.

I'm not thanking anyone for anything

If a Republican said what Crazy Uncle Joe said, people would be out of their minds with (faux) outrage

So you are outraged because no one is outraged that Biden said something that YOU maintain would have elicited a "faux" outrage response if said by a Republican. And you reject the fact that context, in terms of history, policy and rhetoric, has anything to do with public responses to issues like these.

Ok then.

Who said I'm outraged?

I'm pointing out that (a) Joe made a complete fool of himself during the interview and (b) that if a Republican said what Joe said, the media would accuse him of using a "dog whistle" and would have their hair on fire asking for an apology and a retraction
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 05, 2020, 09:29:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 09:21:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 08:45:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .

That is not at all what I said.

And the relative outcomes of state enforcement and actions against blacks and hispanics compared to whites for the same drug offences are pretty damning.

J70-if a white Republican asked an African American interviewer if he was a "junkie" all hell would break loose

If that is the case, you should probably thank 50 years of GOP policies and rhetoric.

I'm not thanking anyone for anything

If a Republican said what Crazy Uncle Joe said, people would be out of their minds with (faux) outrage

So you are outraged because no one is outraged that Biden said something that YOU maintain would have elicited a "faux" outrage response if said by a Republican. And you reject the fact that context, in terms of history, policy and rhetoric, has anything to do with public responses to issues like these.

Ok then.

Who said I'm outraged?

I'm pointing out that (a) Joe made a complete fool of himself during the interview and (b) that if a Republican said what Joe said, the media would accuse him of using a "dog whistle" and would have their hair in fire

If you're not outraged, then what are you banging on about it for? Supposed media bias is all you ever really talk about on this thread.

I only read the report in whatever link you posted. Didn't seem that big a deal in writing to me.

And AGAIN, if GOP politicians want to not be accused of dog whistling, then maybe they should stop dog whistling. They might start to get the benefit of the doubt then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
So the people who posted about Trump and the Axios interview-were they outraged or were they just pointing out that Trump is a clown?

MSNBC and WaPo dissected the Axios interview today

I wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PMI wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

The only train wreck is in your little mind.

So it will be absolutely no surprise when it gets virtually no mention.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PMI wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

The only train wreck is in your little mind.

So it will be absolutely no surprise when it gets virtually no mention.
that was weekend at bernies you were looking at
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 05, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2020, 09:11:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Since when is the stereotypical drug addict black?

First thing comes to mind for me is a grey, toothless, gaunt, malnourished white person, strung out on meth.

Cocaine specifically, I'm thinking smug Wall Street tosser.
the war on drugs is a war on black people I hear a lot ? Another fallacy ? I agree .

Powdered cocaine - used by (rich) white people: Not much enforcement
Crack cocaine - used by (poor) black people: Heavy duty enforcement and mass incarceration

Anybody who says the war on drugs isn't racially motivated is only codding themselves.
When slavery was defeated, it was replaced by Jim Crow, when Jim Crow was defeated it was replaced by the War On Drugs and mass incarceration

Systems of racial oppression continually reinvent themselves

The US is and has always been a white supremacist ethnostate

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:58:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PMI wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

The only train wreck is in your little mind.

So it will be absolutely no surprise when it gets virtually no mention.


Haha-believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:58:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PMI wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

The only train wreck is in your little mind.

So it will be absolutely no surprise when it gets virtually no mention.


Haha-believe what you want

So was it widely mentioned?

Or did the dastardly left-wing-commie media operate in cahoots with the Mao-loving-Dems to keep it off the front cover of Pravda?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 06, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:58:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PMI wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

The only train wreck is in your little mind.

So it will be absolutely no surprise when it gets virtually no mention.


Haha-believe what you want

So was it widely mentioned?

Or did the dastardly left-wing-commie media operate in cahoots with the Mao-loving-Dems to keep it off the front cover of Pravda?

Don't know or care

Got to keep the pressure on them big time though. Scream holy blue murder every time they don't appear to be playing it down the middle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2020, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
So the people who posted about Trump and the Axios interview-were they outraged or were they just pointing out that Trump is a clown?

MSNBC and WaPo dissected the Axios interview today

I wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

You can point out that Biden is gaffe-prone and looks very frail at times (not exactly headline news) without your usual rant about the media and what they'd supposedly do with a hypothetical GOP politician.

And like it or not, Trump is the president NOW, at a time of national crisis, looking to be reelected, and his mendacity and ignorance is almost never challenged to his face and the results seen. THAT is why the Axios interview elicited such a reaction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2020, 02:01:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:58:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PMI wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

The only train wreck is in your little mind.

So it will be absolutely no surprise when it gets virtually no mention.


Haha-believe what you want

So was it widely mentioned?

Or did the dastardly left-wing-commie media operate in cahoots with the Mao-loving-Dems to keep it off the front cover of Pravda?

Don't know or care

Got to keep the pressure on them big time though. Scream holy blue murder every time they don't appear to be playing it down the middle.

Uh-huh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 06, 2020, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2020, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
So the people who posted about Trump and the Axios interview-were they outraged or were they just pointing out that Trump is a clown?

MSNBC and WaPo dissected the Axios interview today

I wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

You can point out that Biden is gaffe-prone and looks very frail at times (not exactly headline news) without your usual rant about the media and what they'd supposedly do with a hypothetical GOP politician.

And like it or not, Trump is the president NOW, at a time of national crisis, looking to be reelected, and his mendacity and ignorance is almost never challenged to his face and the results seen. THAT is why the Axios interview elicited such a reaction.

Joes a nice guy and a good guy but an absolute walking disaster

The media (from my vantage point) seem to be giving him a pass that they would never give ANY Republican. Absolute unapologetic character assassination of a decent people like Mitt Romney and John McCain during the 2008 and 2012 campaigns

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/campaign/404543-medias-praise-for-mccain-is-warranted-but-where-was-it-in-08%3famp

Cvnts is the only word I can use to describe them and I hope they get what's coming to them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 03:23:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:58:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 05, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PMI wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

So it will be absolutely no surprise when it gets virtually no mention.


Haha-believe what you want

So was it widely mentioned?


Don't know or care


::)

I suppose your further evidence of the old adage. Don't argue with an idiot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 03:07:50 PM
Joes a nice guy and a good guy but an absolute walking disaster

The daily death toll in the states is running at a rate higher than the average casualty rate for US servicemen during the second world war.

If Joe Biden is "an absolute walking disaster" - then just what the fukk is Donald Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on August 06, 2020, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 03:07:50 PM
Joes a nice guy and a good guy but an absolute walking disaster

The daily death toll in the states is running at a rate higher than the average casualty rate for US servicemen during the second world war.

If Joe Biden is "an absolute walking disaster" - then just what the fukk is Donald Trump?

Rubbish statistic.

36 times more people die each day in the US (In 2018, 2,839,205, or 7,778 per day) than the 291,557 (213 per day) US servicemen who died during the entire 45 months of US involvement in the second world war.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2020, 03:42:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2020, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
So the people who posted about Trump and the Axios interview-were they outraged or were they just pointing out that Trump is a clown?

MSNBC and WaPo dissected the Axios interview today

I wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

You can point out that Biden is gaffe-prone and looks very frail at times (not exactly headline news) without your usual rant about the media and what they'd supposedly do with a hypothetical GOP politician.

And like it or not, Trump is the president NOW, at a time of national crisis, looking to be reelected, and his mendacity and ignorance is almost never challenged to his face and the results seen. THAT is why the Axios interview elicited such a reaction.

Joes a nice guy and a good guy but an absolute walking disaster

The media (from my vantage point) seem to be giving him a pass that they would never give ANY Republican. Absolute unapologetic character assassination of a decent people like Mitt Romney and John McCain during the 2008 and 2012 campaigns

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/campaign/404543-medias-praise-for-mccain-is-warranted-but-where-was-it-in-08%3famp

Cvnts is the only word I can use to describe them and I hope they get what's coming to them

McCain deserved the negative coverage following the RNC in 2008.

HE thrashed around cluelessly as the financial crisis unfolded.

HE unleashed Sarah Palin and her proto-Trump brand of know-nothing, grievance-based politics and allowed his campaign to be taken over by her and her bigotted supporters (there was no GOP fervour for McCain - it was all for HER).

Was it a coincidence that men like John Lewis, formerly close, harshly criticized McCain during this period?

That Colin Powell, a major figure in the outgoing administration and fixture of GOP politics for more than a decade, endorsed his opponent following the emergence of Palin?

Maybe just for once you can look at the actual people and party themselves instead of always crying about media bias?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 03:46:31 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2020, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 03:07:50 PM
Joes a nice guy and a good guy but an absolute walking disaster

The daily death toll in the states is running at a rate higher than the average casualty rate for US servicemen during the second world war.

If Joe Biden is "an absolute walking disaster" - then just what the fukk is Donald Trump?

Rubbish statistic.

True statistic.

Furthermore, COVID has now killed more Americans than US servicemen killed World War I, Korea, Vietnam and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq - combined.


But hey, lets worry about Joe Biden.


[and I have it at approx 400k US servicemen killed in WW2...?]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on August 06, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
The only on who can beat Donald Trump is Donald Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on August 06, 2020, 04:22:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 03:46:31 PM
[and I have it at approx 400k US servicemen killed in WW2...?]

I think your figure is correct.

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/students-teachers/student-resources/research-starters/research-starters-us-military-numbers

My figure was based on Wikipedia including under another heading "all non-combat deaths including those from accidents, disease, suicide, and murder".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on August 06, 2020, 04:30:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 03:46:31 PM
True statistic.

Furthermore, COVID has now killed more Americans than US servicemen killed World War I, Korea, Vietnam and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq - combined.


But hey, lets worry about Joe Biden.


True alright but in a country of 328 million people and with limited historical involvement in external wars, almost all macro vital statistics will dwarf those relating to its wartime casualties.

And isn't it Andrew Cuomo and his counterpart Governors in New Jersey, Connecticut and Massacheusetts that we should be worrying about, and blaming?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 04:48:55 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2020, 04:30:20 PM
And isn't it Andrew Cuomo and his counterpart Governors in New Jersey, Connecticut and Massacheusetts that we should be worrying about, and blaming?

No.

Not because they don't share a portion of the blame, but because they aren't the one actively hindering a response to the problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2020, 04:58:27 PM
/You can criticize Cuomo for certain things. His self-regard and spats with DeBlasio. His admin's decision to send recovering patients back to nursing homes to save hospital capacity was poorly judged, although understandable giving the panic over what was happening in Italy at the time. In retrospect he could have shut things down a few days earlier than he did.

I don't see how you can blame him for the community spread that took place in NY in February, leading to the explosion of cases in March. No one knew.

Cuomo has done a very good job overall since those initial mistakes though and led the state very calmly and maturely in dramatically reducing infection rates and deaths (a bit like Giuliani's leadership in the weeks after 9/11, before he turned back into a c**k) .

What excuse does Trump have? He's still in denial and pseudoscientific mode, undermining and sidelining his health professionals every chance he gets, spreading nonsense?

Or the governors of those states that have had the summer outbreaks?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2020, 05:03:20 PM
New York Attorney General Moves To Dissolve The NRA After Fraud Investigation (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/06/899712823/new-york-attorney-general-moves-to-dissolve-the-nra-after-fraud-investigation)

The Attorney General of New York took action today to dissolve the National Rifle Association, following an 18-month investigation that found evidence the powerful gun rights group is "fraught with fraud and abuse."

Attorney General Letitia James claims in a lawsuit filed Thursday that she found financial misconduct in the millions of dollars, and that it contributed to a loss of more than $64 million over a three year period.

The suit alleges that top NRA executives misused charitable funds for personal gain, awarded contracts to friends and family members, and provided contracts to former employees to ensure loyalty.

Seeking to dissolve the NRA is the most aggressive sanction James could have sought against the not-for-profit organization, which James has jurisdiction over because it is registered in New York. James has a wide range of authorities relating to nonprofits in the state, including the authority to force organizations to cease operations or dissolve. The NRA is all but certain to contest it.

NPR has reached out to the NRA for comment, but has not received a response.

Sign Up For The NPR Daily Newsletter
Catch up on the latest headlines and unique NPR stories, sent every weekday.

E-mail address
What's your email?
By subscribing, you agree to NPR's terms of use and privacy policy. NPR may share your name and email address with your NPR station. See Details. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

"The NRA's influence has been so powerful that the organization went unchecked for decades while top executives funneled millions into their own pockets," James said in a statement. "The NRA is fraught with fraud and abuse, which is why, today, we seek to dissolve the NRA, because no organization is above the law."

Secret Recording Reveals NRA's Legal Troubles Have Cost The Organization $100 Million

INVESTIGATIONS
Secret Recording Reveals NRA's Legal Troubles Have Cost The Organization $100 Million
NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals
POLITICS
NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals

James' complaint names the National Rifle Association as a whole, but also names four current and former NRA executives: Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, general counsel John Frazer, former CFO Woody Phillips, and former chief of staff Joshua Powell.

It lists dozens of examples of alleged financial malfeasance, including the use of NRA funds for vacations, private jets, and expensive meals. In a statement, her office said that the charitable organization's executives "instituted a culture of self-dealing, mismanagement and negligent oversight" that contributed to "the waste and loss of millions in assets."

The lawsuit seeks to dissolve the NRA in its entirety and asks the court to order LaPierre and other current and former executives to pay back unlawful profits. It also seeks to remove LaPierre and Frazer from the organization's leadership and prevent the four named individuals from ever serving again on the board of a charity in New York.

Allegations against CEO Wayne LaPierre

LaPierre, who also serves as CEO, has held the top position at the organization for nearly 30 years. In the Attorney General's lawsuit he is accused of using charitable funds for personal gain, including a post-employment contract valued at more than $17 million that was not approved by the NRA's board of directors.

The lawsuit also claims that LaPierre received more than $1.2 million in expense reimbursements over four years, including gifts for friends, travel expenses and memberships at golf clubs and hotels.

And it alleges that he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on private plane trips, including for extended family when he was not present; traveled to Africa with his wife on a safari gifted by an NRA vendor, and spent more than $3.6 million on luxury black car services and travel consultants in the last two years.

Those that attempted to blow the whistle on this behavior, the suit claims, were retaliated against by LaPierre.

Allegations against former CFO Woody Phillips, former chief of staff Joshua Powell and general counsel John Frazer

James' lawsuit alleges that Phillips, whose job it was to manage the financial operations of the charitable organization, lied on financial disclosure forms and set up numerous deals to enrich himself and his girlfriend.

The New York Attorney General claims that Phillips set up a contract for himself just before he retired, and that the package was worth $1.8 million — purportedly for consulting services to the incoming treasurer. But the incoming treasurer told the New York attorney general that he was not aware of this contract. Phillips also directed a deal worth more than $1 million to his girlfriend, the suit alleges.

Meanwhile, James alleges that former NRA chief of staff Joshua Powell's salary more than tripled a little more than two years into his tenure, which began in 2016. While he began at $250,000, Powell's salary rose to $800,000.

Powell is also accused of directing charitable funds to be used for the benefit of his family members. The New York Attorney General said that Powell approved of a $5 million consulting contract with the firm McKenna & Associates. That firm, in turn, hired Powell's wife and passed her $30,000 monthly consulting fee through the NRA. Powell also arranged for an NRA vendor to hire his father as a paid photographer, leading to $90,000 in fees for his father — funds that were ultimately billed to the NRA.

The New York Attorney General did not allege that NRA general counsel John Frazer committed financial misconduct, but said that he failed to comply with board governance procedures, failed to ensure the NRA was in compliance with whistleblower laws and repeatedly certified false or misleading annual statements by the NRA.

The NRA's already precarious financial situation

James' lawsuit is sure to be contested in court by the National Rifle Association.

But even before this move, the NRA was in dire financial straits. A secret recording of an NRA board meeting obtained by NPR in April showed LaPierre telling the audience that the NRA's legal troubles have cost the organization $100 million.

"The cost that we bore was probably about a hundred-million-dollar hit in lost revenue and real cost to this association in 2018 and 2019," LaPierre said, according to a tape recorded by a source in the room. "I mean, that's huge."

Much of this has to do with its legal troubles. Facing Congressional inquiries and investigations by multiple state attorneys general, as well as internal whistleblower complaints, the NRA's finances have sagged under the burden of legal costs. In the ongoing litigation between the NRA and Ackerman McQueen, its former public relations firm, a brief filed by the firm on April 15 indicates its belief that the NRA has paid its outside legal counsel "over $54 million" in the last two years.

The turmoil at the NRA also could have political ramifications ahead of the 2020 elections. The NRA spent tens of millions of dollars in 2016 to support then-candidate Donald Trump — a role it appears it will be unlikely to be able to repeat given its current financial condition.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2020, 05:03:55 PM
The NRA's reign of terror is about to come to an end! Slap it up them!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on August 06, 2020, 05:32:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2020, 04:58:27 PM
/You can criticize Cuomo for certain things. His self-regard and spats with DeBlasio. His admin's decision to send recovering patients back to nursing homes to save hospital capacity was poorly judged, although understandable giving the panic over what was happening in Italy at the time. In retrospect he could have shut things down a few days earlier than he did.

I don't see how you can blame him for the community spread that took place in NY in February, leading to the explosion of cases in March. No one knew.

Cuomo has done a very good job overall since those initial mistakes though and led the state very calmly and maturely in dramatically reducing infection rates and deaths (a bit like Giuliani's leadership in the weeks after 9/11, before he turned back into a c**k) .

What excuse does Trump have? He's still in denial and pseudoscientific mode, undermining and sidelining his health professionals every chance he gets, spreading nonsense?

Or the governors of those states that have had the summer outbreaks?

You can't blame Trump and the Governors. As you acknowledge in the case of Cuomo, it's the Governors are responsible for local State logistical arrangements. Outside NY, NJ, CT and MA, most Governors have done well, regardless of recent outbreaks.

Trump can blather all he likes but unless there are Governors who are being somehow forced to follow his orders against their will, what they do then is out of his control. None of the worst-performing Governors have paid a blind bid of heed to him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2020, 06:29:17 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2020, 05:32:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2020, 04:58:27 PM
/You can criticize Cuomo for certain things. His self-regard and spats with DeBlasio. His admin's decision to send recovering patients back to nursing homes to save hospital capacity was poorly judged, although understandable giving the panic over what was happening in Italy at the time. In retrospect he could have shut things down a few days earlier than he did.

I don't see how you can blame him for the community spread that took place in NY in February, leading to the explosion of cases in March. No one knew.

Cuomo has done a very good job overall since those initial mistakes though and led the state very calmly and maturely in dramatically reducing infection rates and deaths (a bit like Giuliani's leadership in the weeks after 9/11, before he turned back into a c**k) .

What excuse does Trump have? He's still in denial and pseudoscientific mode, undermining and sidelining his health professionals every chance he gets, spreading nonsense?

Or the governors of those states that have had the summer outbreaks?

You can't blame Trump and the Governors. As you acknowledge in the case of Cuomo, it's the Governors are responsible for local State logistical arrangements. Outside NY, NJ, CT and MA, most Governors have done well, regardless of recent outbreaks.

Trump can blather all he likes but unless there are Governors who are being somehow forced to follow his orders against their will, what they do then is out of his control. None of the worst-performing Governors have paid a blind bid of heed to him.

How can you say "they've done well regardless of recent outbreaks"?

They are lucky they didn't get hit earlier and thus a lot worse, before people started to learn about this thing. That they've been hit so badly five months in is inexcusable, and a failure of leadership in those places. NYC, being a world financial, tourist and travel hub and extremely densely populated, got hammered early due to the number of people coming in carrying the virus at the start of the outbreak, before they even knew what had hit them.

And Trump, in case you'd missed it, is the head of a personality cult involving more than a third of the country's population. If you think his rhetoric and conduct had nothing to do with the antipathy of his constituents towards restrictions, mask-wearing and public health professionals (including those on his own team), as well as the pressure felt by GOP politicians not to be seen breaking with him, then you're pretty clueless about the reality of US life.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2020, 06:36:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2020, 05:03:55 PM
The NRA's reign of terror is about to come to an end! Slap it up them!

These allegations have surrounded LaPierre for years.

No doubt he'll try to spin it as partisan over-reach by a Democratic AG. One wonders who the members will hate more? The corrupt execs living large off their dues, or the mean black female Democratic politician from New York?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 06, 2020, 06:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2020, 03:42:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2020, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
So the people who posted about Trump and the Axios interview-were they outraged or were they just pointing out that Trump is a clown?

MSNBC and WaPo dissected the Axios interview today

I wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

You can point out that Biden is gaffe-prone and looks very frail at times (not exactly headline news) without your usual rant about the media and what they'd supposedly do with a hypothetical GOP politician.

And like it or not, Trump is the president NOW, at a time of national crisis, looking to be reelected, and his mendacity and ignorance is almost never challenged to his face and the results seen. THAT is why the Axios interview elicited such a reaction.

Joes a nice guy and a good guy but an absolute walking disaster

The media (from my vantage point) seem to be giving him a pass that they would never give ANY Republican. Absolute unapologetic character assassination of a decent people like Mitt Romney and John McCain during the 2008 and 2012 campaigns

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/campaign/404543-medias-praise-for-mccain-is-warranted-but-where-was-it-in-08%3famp

Cvnts is the only word I can use to describe them and I hope they get what's coming to them

McCain deserved the negative coverage following the RNC in 2008.

HE thrashed around cluelessly as the financial crisis unfolded.

HE unleashed Sarah Palin and her proto-Trump brand of know-nothing, grievance-based politics and allowed his campaign to be taken over by her and her bigotted supporters (there was no GOP fervour for McCain - it was all for HER).

Was it a coincidence that men like John Lewis, formerly close, harshly criticized McCain during this period?

That Colin Powell, a major figure in the outgoing administration and fixture of GOP politics for more than a decade, endorsed his opponent following the emergence of Palin?

Maybe just for once you can look at the actual people and party themselves instead of always crying about media bias?

BS

They had him targeted long before Palin even entered the fray

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/03/the_beginning_of_the_demonizat.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2020, 06:59:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2020, 06:36:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2020, 05:03:55 PM
The NRA's reign of terror is about to come to an end! Slap it up them!

These allegations have surrounded LaPierre for years.

No doubt he'll try to spin it as partisan over-reach by a Democratic AG. One wonders who the members will hate more? The corrupt execs living large off their dues, or the mean black female Democratic politician from New York?

The "we are a nation of laws" crowd don't half change their tune when the subject changes from immigration to white collar crime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2020, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 06:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2020, 03:42:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2020, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 05, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
So the people who posted about Trump and the Axios interview-were they outraged or were they just pointing out that Trump is a clown?

MSNBC and WaPo dissected the Axios interview today

I wonder will Joes train wreck interview this morning will get the same scrutiny from them tomorrow

You can point out that Biden is gaffe-prone and looks very frail at times (not exactly headline news) without your usual rant about the media and what they'd supposedly do with a hypothetical GOP politician.

And like it or not, Trump is the president NOW, at a time of national crisis, looking to be reelected, and his mendacity and ignorance is almost never challenged to his face and the results seen. THAT is why the Axios interview elicited such a reaction.

Joes a nice guy and a good guy but an absolute walking disaster

The media (from my vantage point) seem to be giving him a pass that they would never give ANY Republican. Absolute unapologetic character assassination of a decent people like Mitt Romney and John McCain during the 2008 and 2012 campaigns

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/campaign/404543-medias-praise-for-mccain-is-warranted-but-where-was-it-in-08%3famp

Cvnts is the only word I can use to describe them and I hope they get what's coming to them

McCain deserved the negative coverage following the RNC in 2008.

HE thrashed around cluelessly as the financial crisis unfolded.

HE unleashed Sarah Palin and her proto-Trump brand of know-nothing, grievance-based politics and allowed his campaign to be taken over by her and her bigotted supporters (there was no GOP fervour for McCain - it was all for HER).

Was it a coincidence that men like John Lewis, formerly close, harshly criticized McCain during this period?

That Colin Powell, a major figure in the outgoing administration and fixture of GOP politics for more than a decade, endorsed his opponent following the emergence of Palin?

Maybe just for once you can look at the actual people and party themselves instead of always crying about media bias?

BS

They had him targeted long before Palin even entered the fray

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/03/the_beginning_of_the_demonizat.html

How the f**k does a couple of articles from the likes of Krugman and Dionne (VERY liberal opinion writers) about McCain's right wing voting record qualify as "character assassination" or a massive, unfair media campaign 'targeting" him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2020, 07:16:49 PM
The truth hurts so much for conservatives that as soon as you quote their actual words or talk about the things they actually did, they start yapping like wounded puppies about unfairly treated they are by the big bad media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 06, 2020, 09:22:00 PM
J70-believe whatever your want

Conservatives have been getting a raw deal from the MSM for decades

We're not even upset about it.....we expect nothing less

CNN, The WaPo and The NY Times are the lefts equivalent of Fox News....lacking a shred of credibility
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2020, 09:28:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 06, 2020, 09:22:00 PM
J70-believe whatever your want

Conservatives have been getting a raw deal from the MSM for decades

We're not even upset about it.....we expect nothing less

CNN, The WaPo and The NY Times are the lefts equivalent of Fox News....lacking a shred of credibility

And you believe what YOU want.

Its pretty clear that your foundational political beliefs are that the media is somehow out to get Republicans and conservatives and liberals and Democrats are nasty. And that that's about it.

When you view everything and anything through that prism, I suppose you would see malice and skullduggery lurking behind every liberal or media door.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 07, 2020, 12:14:36 AM
I thought whitey was an independent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 12:36:25 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 07, 2020, 12:14:36 AM
I thought whitey was an independent
;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 07, 2020, 12:55:08 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 07, 2020, 12:14:36 AM
I thought whitey was an independent

I'm pro choice, pro gun control, pro amnesty for non criminal illegals......positions a Republican would never hold. I am a fiscal conservative and I am pro law enforcement, hence would vote Republican most of the time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on August 07, 2020, 10:57:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 07, 2020, 12:55:08 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 07, 2020, 12:14:36 AM
I thought whitey was an independent

I'm pro choice, pro gun control, pro amnesty for non criminal illegals......positions a Republican would never hold. I am a fiscal conservative and I am pro law enforcement, hence would vote Republican most of the time

Are democrats anti law enforcement? Don't live in america but  just can't see how anyone could be against law enforcement.  How does this manifest itself in election  ads/literature?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 07, 2020, 03:05:05 PM
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/08/06/metro/sex-offender-just-set-free-by-mass-bail-fund-is-charged-with-new-violent-rape/?fbclid=IwAR0gFgCZ7DKqW4NLi8Wi1rKr0fnQe8JIuOEYLcLcz8haNYz626-lJk2Ltvw


Crazy, crazy, crazy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 05:54:44 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 07, 2020, 10:57:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 07, 2020, 12:55:08 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 07, 2020, 12:14:36 AM
I thought whitey was an independent

I'm pro choice, pro gun control, pro amnesty for non criminal illegals......positions a Republican would never hold. I am a fiscal conservative and I am pro law enforcement, hence would vote Republican most of the time

Are democrats anti law enforcement? Don't live in america but  just can't see how anyone could be against law enforcement.  How does this manifest itself in election  ads/literature?

Everyone is pro law enforcement. The difference is Rethuglicans support the cops like a football team who cannot be criticized because to do so is unpatriotic. Democrats see the cops as a vital public service that should be held accountable like any other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 07, 2020, 06:40:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 05:54:44 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 07, 2020, 10:57:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 07, 2020, 12:55:08 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 07, 2020, 12:14:36 AM
I thought whitey was an independent

I'm pro choice, pro gun control, pro amnesty for non criminal illegals......positions a Republican would never hold. I am a fiscal conservative and I am pro law enforcement, hence would vote Republican most of the time

Are democrats anti law enforcement? Don't live in america but  just can't see how anyone could be against law enforcement.  How does this manifest itself in election  ads/literature?

Everyone is pro law enforcement. The difference is Rethuglicans support the cops like a football team who cannot be criticized because to do so is unpatriotic. Democrats see the cops as a vital public service that should be held accountable like any other.

LOL

Undercover NYPD, backed by uniformed officers arrested a suspect for disabling/destroying surveillance cameras and are widely condemned by the Democratic Mayor of NYC, the Democratic Governor of NY State and Congressmen/women AOC and Jerry Nadler-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kget.com/news/national/outrage-after-nypd-hustles-protester-into-unmarked-van/amp/

And of course their friends in the media were happy to paint a similar narrative

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/509530-chris-hayes-called-out-by-nbc-colleague-for-describing-nypd-arrest-as%3famp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 07, 2020, 07:21:15 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 07, 2020, 10:57:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 07, 2020, 12:55:08 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 07, 2020, 12:14:36 AM
I thought whitey was an independent

I'm pro choice, pro gun control, pro amnesty for non criminal illegals......positions a Republican would never hold. I am a fiscal conservative and I am pro law enforcement, hence would vote Republican most of the time

Are democrats anti law enforcement? Don't live in america but  just can't see how anyone could be against law enforcement.  How does this manifest itself in election  ads/literature?
dont know if they are anti law enforcement but they are pro antifa and violent protesters as last weeks hearing with Barr showed and this weeks senate hearings showed the are pro spying on a presidential campaign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 08:26:58 PM
Got to hand it to the conservatives for their consistent use of language to push their narrative. In a normal country the "anti fascists" would be seen as the good guys, but the right has used "antifa" the same way they use the word "liberal." Keep repeating it as if it were a term of abuse and eventually people will come to see it that way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 07, 2020, 08:31:23 PM
Cuomo saying schools to reopen , watch the msm start to change the narrative now that one of their heroes is for reopening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 07, 2020, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 08:26:58 PM
Got to hand it to the conservatives for their consistent use of language to push their narrative. In a normal country the "anti fascists" would be seen as the good guys, but the right has used "antifa" the same way they use the word "liberal." Keep repeating it as if it were a term of abuse and eventually people will come to see it that way.
china is the people's republic of China do you think it's a legitimate republic?
Joe Biden is not racist but every time he opens his mouth something racist comes out .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 07, 2020, 09:00:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 07, 2020, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 08:26:58 PM
Got to hand it to the conservatives for their consistent use of language to push their narrative. In a normal country the "anti fascists" would be seen as the good guys, but the right has used "antifa" the same way they use the word "liberal." Keep repeating it as if it were a term of abuse and eventually people will come to see it that way.
china is the people's republic of China do you think it's a legitimate republic?
Joe Biden is not racist but every time he opens his mouth something racist comes out .

Antifa are bigger fascists than the actual fascists they claim to be fighting against

Here's one of Eamonn "good guys" smashing someone over the head with a bicycle lock because they were a Trump supporter

https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/08/08/eric-clanton-takes-3-year-probation-deal-in-berkeley-rally-bike-lock-assault-case
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 10:15:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 07, 2020, 08:31:23 PM
Cuomo saying schools to reopen , watch the msm start to change the narrative now that one of their heroes is for reopening.
I stopped reading at "MSM."

What is it with the far right and their talking points that they feel the need to make everything an acronym? Do they come out with this stuff so frequently that they decide to shorten it? Do they spend all day wailing about people who think that we should all be equal before the law, and shorten it up to "SJW" as if social justice is a cause to be mocked rather than embraced?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 10:18:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 07, 2020, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 08:26:58 PM
Got to hand it to the conservatives for their consistent use of language to push their narrative. In a normal country the "anti fascists" would be seen as the good guys, but the right has used "antifa" the same way they use the word "liberal." Keep repeating it as if it were a term of abuse and eventually people will come to see it that way.
china is the people's republic of China do you think it's a legitimate republic?
Joe Biden is not racist but every time he opens his mouth something racist comes out .
Well if we're going to change the subject, maybe you can tell me what you make of the NRA and their impending dissolution. Does the "we are a nation of laws" doctrine apply to the thieving fraudsters at the top of that little terrorist organization too? Or does it only apply to brown-skinned people trying to get into the country?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 08, 2020, 12:58:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 10:18:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 07, 2020, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 08:26:58 PM
Got to hand it to the conservatives for their consistent use of language to push their narrative. In a normal country the "anti fascists" would be seen as the good guys, but the right has used "antifa" the same way they use the word "liberal." Keep repeating it as if it were a term of abuse and eventually people will come to see it that way.
china is the people's republic of China do you think it's a legitimate republic?
Joe Biden is not racist but every time he opens his mouth something racist comes out .
Well if we're going to change the subject, maybe you can tell me what you make of the NRA and their impending dissolution. Does the "we are a nation of laws" doctrine apply to the thieving fraudsters at the top of that little terrorist organization too? Or does it only apply to brown-skinned people trying to get into the country?

What about the "brown skinned" (your words not mine) person who raped and murdered a 92 year old women, who would have been deported had immigration law been followed?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/nyregion/92-year-old-woman-queens-murder.amp.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 08, 2020, 01:08:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 08:26:58 PM
Got to hand it to the conservatives for their consistent use of language to push their narrative. In a normal country the "anti fascists" would be seen as the good guys, but the right has used "antifa" the same way they use the word "liberal." Keep repeating it as if it were a term of abuse and eventually people will come to see it that way.

Here's some footage of the "good guys" terrorizing an elderly person with a walker


https://youtu.be/pT6ySpUm3ss
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 08, 2020, 04:47:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 08, 2020, 01:08:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2020, 08:26:58 PM
Got to hand it to the conservatives for their consistent use of language to push their narrative. In a normal country the "anti fascists" would be seen as the good guys, but the right has used "antifa" the same way they use the word "liberal." Keep repeating it as if it were a term of abuse and eventually people will come to see it that way.

Here’s some footage of the “good guys” terrorizing an elderly person with a walker


https://youtu.be/pT6ySpUm3ss
Whitey .. I hope you live somewhere close to a beach. I highly recommend a long walk looking at the marine layer and contemplating whether it is a good thing or not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
More peaceful blm protesters out in force in downtown Chicago last night .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 10, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
More peaceful blm protesters out in force in downtown Chicago last night .

Comical

Cops get a 911 call about a person with a gun

Cops respond and suspect (age 20) opens fire on them

Cops return fire, hit suspect in the shoulder and take him into custody

Neighborhood mob reacts to fake internet rumour that unarmed  15 year old was shot dead

Between 700 and 1000 people use this as an excuse to destroy downtown Chicago

100 people arrested
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:47:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
More peaceful blm protesters out in force in downtown Chicago last night .

Comical

Cops get a 911 call about a person with a gun

Cops respond and suspect (age 20) opens fire on them

Cops return fire, hit suspect in the shoulder and take him into custody

Neighborhood mob reacts to fake internet rumour that unarmed  15 year old was shot dead

Between 700 and 1000 people use this as an excuse to destroy downtown Chicago

100 people arrested
the thing is what's to stop 20 car loads of gangsters sorry I mean protesters heading to any downtown or suburb with nice shops and businesses and wrecking them with little or no repercussions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2020, 11:03:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
More peaceful blm protesters out in force in downtown Chicago last night .

Oh dear. Some glass got broken and some property stolen. I expect conservatives to be as outraged about this as they are ambivalent about the deaths of black people at the hands of police.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2020, 11:06:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:47:10 PM
the thing is what's to stop 20 car loads of gangsters sorry I mean protesters heading to any downtown or suburb with nice shops and businesses and wrecking them with little or no repercussions

The thing is what's to stop 20 car loads of paramilitaries, sorry I mean 'brave men and women in uniform' (TM), heading to any black neighborhood and firing weapons indiscriminately at peaceful protesters with flagrant disregard for human life, with little or no repercussions?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 11:36:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
More peaceful blm protesters out in force in downtown Chicago last night .

Comical

Cops get a 911 call about a person with a gun

Cops respond and suspect (age 20) opens fire on them

Cops return fire, hit suspect in the shoulder and take him into custody

Neighborhood mob reacts to fake internet rumour that unarmed  15 year old was shot dead

Between 700 and 1000 people use this as an excuse to destroy downtown Chicago

100 people arrested

I think what's more comical is the four cops that shot at (hitting him 19 times) an unarmed person 41 times as he stood at his door way While he was getting his keys out of his pocket. And got off with it!! America is fucked up....

Oh and they were able to move the case to another court a 130 miles away, just in case  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 10, 2020, 11:43:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 11:36:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
More peaceful blm protesters out in force in downtown Chicago last night .

Comical

Cops get a 911 call about a person with a gun

Cops respond and suspect (age 20) opens fire on them

Cops return fire, hit suspect in the shoulder and take him into custody

Neighborhood mob reacts to fake internet rumour that unarmed  15 year old was shot dead

Between 700 and 1000 people use this as an excuse to destroy downtown Chicago

100 people arrested

I think what's more comical is the four cops that shot at (hitting him 19 times) an unarmed person 41 times as he stood at his door way While he was getting his keys out of his pocket. And got off with it!! America is fucked up....

Oh and they were able to move the case to another court a 130 miles away, just in case  ;D ;D

It's even more comical that you are using a tragedy that occurred 21 years ago and 1000 miles away to excuse a mob who essentially destroyed the entire commercial district of the 3rd largest city in the country. But let's pull down another Columbus statue.....that'll make everyone feel better
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 11:54:38 PM
But you can't justify that's there's no justification for feeling disgruntled at the police service that is there to 'serve and protect' its citizens But has been routinely seen to been given a free hand to shoot to kill...

I suppose you supported the shoot to kill operations that were carried out in the north
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 12:12:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 11:54:38 PM
But you can't justify that's there's no justification for feeling disgruntled at the police service that is there to 'serve and protect' its citizens But has been routinely seen to been given a free hand to shoot to kill...

I suppose you supported the shoot to kill operations that were carried out in the north

450 people have been murdered so far this year in Chicago

Cops are operating in a war zone, often with life and death decisions to make in a millisecond

There are bad cops and there are reckless cops and no one is excusing their actions.

But painting ALL cops based on the actions of a few is a very very dangerous track to take and is leading to a serious breakdown in law and order. 

Guess who the majority of the  victims of this breakdown are going to be?

I'll give you a hint.....it won't be white people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 08:02:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 12:12:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 11:54:38 PM
But you can't justify that's there's no justification for feeling disgruntled at the police service that is there to 'serve and protect' its citizens But has been routinely seen to been given a free hand to shoot to kill...

I suppose you supported the shoot to kill operations that were carried out in the north

450 people have been murdered so far this year in Chicago

Cops are operating in a war zone, often with life and death decisions to make in a millisecond

There are bad cops and there are reckless cops and no one is excusing their actions.

But painting ALL cops based on the actions of a few is a very very dangerous track to take and is leading to a serious breakdown in law and order. 

Guess who the majority of the  victims of this breakdown are going to be?

I'll give you a hint.....it won't be white people

A good breakdown of the paramilitaries in jail during the troubles were generally from the working classes.

There will always be a marginalised group that carry out 'crime'

If people were better educated and given same opportunities then you'll have less crime, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 11, 2020, 10:35:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 12:12:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 11:54:38 PM
But you can't justify that's there's no justification for feeling disgruntled at the police service that is there to 'serve and protect' its citizens But has been routinely seen to been given a free hand to shoot to kill...

I suppose you supported the shoot to kill operations that were carried out in the north

450 people have been murdered so far this year in Chicago

Cops are operating in a war zone, often with life and death decisions to make in a millisecond

There are bad cops and there are reckless cops and no one is excusing their actions.

But painting ALL cops based on the actions of a few is a very very dangerous track to take and is leading to a serious breakdown in law and order. 

Guess who the majority of the  victims of this breakdown are going to be?

I'll give you a hint.....it won't be white people

Ever wonder why that is?

Social deprivation, easy access to weapons, mental health issues, drugs.

No will to sort it out at a political level.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 11:27:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 02, 2020, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:01:26 AM
So what IS it all about for the RIOTERS whitey?

How about the protesters in general?
why are they burning bibles in Portland now ? What does that do for them .

Don't have a clue.

But I'm sure you have a "theory".

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/us/politics/russia-disinformation-election-meddling.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2020, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 11:27:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 02, 2020, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:01:26 AM
So what IS it all about for the RIOTERS whitey?

How about the protesters in general?
why are they burning bibles in Portland now ? What does that do for them .

Don't have a clue.

But I'm sure you have a "theory".

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/us/politics/russia-disinformation-election-meddling.html

Even without the story being hyped by the Russians or the odious Junior and Ted Cruz (I expect nothing less from them), I would ask why Gmac was even bringing it to anyone's attention here?

I couldn't give two fucks if they burned 50 bibles that night. The point is that it was an isolated incident and hardly representative of what happens at BLM or even Antifa protests. If and when burning bibles becomes a feature of these protests in general or even other than isolated incidents, then wee Don might have something to add to his bullshit grievance appeals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 07:49:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 11:27:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 02, 2020, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:01:26 AM
So what IS it all about for the RIOTERS whitey?

How about the protesters in general?
why are they burning bibles in Portland now ? What does that do for them .

Don't have a clue.

But I'm sure you have a "theory".

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/us/politics/russia-disinformation-election-meddling.html

Even without the story being hyped by the Russians or the odious Junior and Ted Cruz (I expect nothing less from them), I would ask why Gmac was even bringing it to anyone's attention here?

I couldn't give two fucks if they burned 50 bibles that night. The point is that it was an isolated incident and hardly representative of what happens at BLM or even Antifa protests. If and when burning bibles becomes a feature of these protests in general or even other than isolated incidents, then wee Don might have something to add to his bullshit grievance appeals.

Do you agree with the BLM message from Chicago last evening that the looters were trying to feed their families and that it was a form of reparations?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:06:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 07:49:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 11:27:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 02, 2020, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:01:26 AM
So what IS it all about for the RIOTERS whitey?

How about the protesters in general?
why are they burning bibles in Portland now ? What does that do for them .

Don't have a clue.

But I'm sure you have a "theory".

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/us/politics/russia-disinformation-election-meddling.html

Even without the story being hyped by the Russians or the odious Junior and Ted Cruz (I expect nothing less from them), I would ask why Gmac was even bringing it to anyone's attention here?

I couldn't give two fucks if they burned 50 bibles that night. The point is that it was an isolated incident and hardly representative of what happens at BLM or even Antifa protests. If and when burning bibles becomes a feature of these protests in general or even other than isolated incidents, then wee Don might have something to add to his bullshit grievance appeals.

Do you agree with the BLM message from Chicago last evening that the looters were trying to feed their families and that it was a form of reparations?

No.

That's an idiotic statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 09:06:01 PM
Lots of Michael brown talk on Twitter last few days but nothing about  Cannon  hinnant the 5 year old shot in the head by his neighbor, wonder why that would be .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2020, 09:20:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:06:35 PM


No.

That's an idiotic statement.

Still feeding the troll?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Kamala Harris it is

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1293280411150217219
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 11, 2020, 09:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Kamala Harris it is

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1293280411150217219

Not a real surprise but I think she should help him already been vetted and not as hated as Elizabeth Warren so fairly solid choice. Big in terms of 2024 if the result goes as predicted this time I can't see sleepy Joe going for 2 terms!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2020, 09:33:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 09:06:01 PM
Lots of Michael brown talk on Twitter last few days but nothing about  Cannon  hinnant the 5 year old shot in the head by his neighbor, wonder why that would be .


Family now seeks justice after Wilson boy killed, man captured (https://www.wspa.com/news/top-stories/family-now-seeks-justice-after-wilson-boy-killed-man-captured/)

5-year-old North Carolina boy allegedly shot dead by neighbor (https://nypost.com/2020/08/11/5-year-old-north-carolina-boy-allegedly-shot-dead-by-neighbor/)

Boy, 5, shot dead at point-blank range 'for riding into neighbor's yard' (https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/11/boy-5-shot-dead-point-blank-range-riding-neighbors-yard-13115566/)

Wilson man wanted in fatal shooting of 5-year-old apprehended (https://www.wral.com/wilson-man-wanted-in-fatal-shooting-of-5-year-old-apprehended/19227849/)

North Carolina man arrested in shooting death of 5-year-old boy, police say (https://www.fox23.com/news/trending/north-carolina-man-arrested-shooting-death-5-year-old-boy-police-say/YR3KXAE3AJHBNFNM6FRFK5RQMU/)

UPDATE: Police have man in custody after 5-year-old fatally shot (https://www.witn.com/2020/08/09/police-5-year-old-shot-killed-in-wilson/)

Family mourns 5-year-old killed Sunday: Cannon Hinnant called a 'beautiful soul' (https://www.wilsontimes.com/stories/family-mourns-5-year-old-killed-sunday-s2,214266)

Man wanted after fatally shooting 5-year-old in N.C., police say (https://wset.com/news/local/man-wanted-after-fatally-shooting-5-year-old-in-nc-police-say)

Obituary: Cannon Blake Hinnant (https://www.wilsontimes.com/stories/cannon-blake-hinnant,214263)

'You think people don't run across the street and kill kids:' Community heartbroken after shooting (https://www.wral.com/you-think-people-don-t-run-across-the-street-and-kill-kids-community-heartbroken-after-shooting/19229536/)

Yup, apart from that and a further ten pages of Google News search results, there hasn't been a damn thing said about it. If only the perp could be arrested and charged. Oh wait, he already has.

So what exactly is the point you're trying to make here? What cheap point could be worth hijacking a heartbreaking tragedy like this? Someone murdered a child therefore people should stop protesting against police brutality and cops getting away with murder?

Oh, you're saying there's not a word about it on Twitter? Then how come when I put the kid's name into a Twitter search I get a boatload of results the same as I do in Google?

Maybe your Twitter's broken. Have you tried turning your brain off and turning it back on again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/pwnt.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2020, 09:33:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 09:06:01 PM
Lots of Michael brown talk on Twitter last few days but nothing about  Cannon  hinnant the 5 year old shot in the head by his neighbor, wonder why that would be .


Family now seeks justice after Wilson boy killed, man captured (https://www.wspa.com/news/top-stories/family-now-seeks-justice-after-wilson-boy-killed-man-captured/)

5-year-old North Carolina boy allegedly shot dead by neighbor (https://nypost.com/2020/08/11/5-year-old-north-carolina-boy-allegedly-shot-dead-by-neighbor/)

Boy, 5, shot dead at point-blank range 'for riding into neighbor's yard' (https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/11/boy-5-shot-dead-point-blank-range-riding-neighbors-yard-13115566/)

Wilson man wanted in fatal shooting of 5-year-old apprehended (https://www.wral.com/wilson-man-wanted-in-fatal-shooting-of-5-year-old-apprehended/19227849/)

North Carolina man arrested in shooting death of 5-year-old boy, police say (https://www.fox23.com/news/trending/north-carolina-man-arrested-shooting-death-5-year-old-boy-police-say/YR3KXAE3AJHBNFNM6FRFK5RQMU/)

UPDATE: Police have man in custody after 5-year-old fatally shot (https://www.witn.com/2020/08/09/police-5-year-old-shot-killed-in-wilson/)

Family mourns 5-year-old killed Sunday: Cannon Hinnant called a 'beautiful soul' (https://www.wilsontimes.com/stories/family-mourns-5-year-old-killed-sunday-s2,214266)

Man wanted after fatally shooting 5-year-old in N.C., police say (https://wset.com/news/local/man-wanted-after-fatally-shooting-5-year-old-in-nc-police-say)

Obituary: Cannon Blake Hinnant (https://www.wilsontimes.com/stories/cannon-blake-hinnant,214263)

'You think people don't run across the street and kill kids:' Community heartbroken after shooting (https://www.wral.com/you-think-people-don-t-run-across-the-street-and-kill-kids-community-heartbroken-after-shooting/19229536/)

Yup, apart from that and a further ten pages of Google News search results, there hasn't been a damn thing said about it. If only the perp could be arrested and charged. Oh wait, he already has.

So what exactly is the point you're trying to make here? What cheap point could be worth hijacking a heartbreaking tragedy like this? Someone murdered a child therefore people should stop protesting against police brutality and cops getting away with murder?

Oh, you're saying there's not a word about it on Twitter? Then how come when I put the kid's name into a Twitter search I get a boatload of results the same as I do in Google?

Maybe your Twitter's broken. Have you tried turning your brain off and turning it back on again?
nothing on trending, news or updates  so unless you search you won't find it , but Michael brown who charged a cop and tried to take his gun he's a hero to you guys .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 09:53:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 11, 2020, 09:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Kamala Harris it is

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1293280411150217219

Not a real surprise but I think she should help him already been vetted and not as hated as Elizabeth Warren so fairly solid choice. Big in terms of 2024 if the result goes as predicted this time I can't see sleepy Joe going for 2 terms!

She is definitely going to energize the Republican base....can't fvckin stand her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 11, 2020, 10:16:28 PM
Turned on CNN for reaction.

First 10 seconds I heard "woman of color". Turned it off.
I mean they could have talked about Kamalas cop record and how her inclusion will tempt the majority Conservative "law and order" vote. But no, let's make everything about race and gender.

Christ American politics has got so dumb.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 11, 2020, 09:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Kamala Harris it is

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1293280411150217219

Not a real surprise but I think she should help him already been vetted and not as hated as Elizabeth Warren so fairly solid choice. Big in terms of 2024 if the result goes as predicted this time I can't see sleepy Joe going for 2 terms!
willie brown gives her a big thumbs up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 10:36:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 09:53:46 PM


She is definitely going to energize the Republican base....can't fvckin stand her
Who would have guessed that you and the "Republican base" can't stand her

I wonder why

I can think of one reason, anyway...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 10:41:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 10:36:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 09:53:46 PM


She is definitely going to energize the Republican base....can't fvckin stand her
Who would have guessed that you and the "Republican base" can't stand her

I wonder why

I can think of one reason, anyway...

She's a phony and a liar
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 10:56:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 10:41:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 10:36:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 09:53:46 PM


She is definitely going to energize the Republican base....can't fvckin stand her
Who would have guessed that you and the "Republican base" can't stand her

I wonder why

I can think of one reason, anyway...

She's a phony and a liar
A lot of projection there given you've spent your entire time here claiming not to be a white supremacist

Now that's being a phoney and liar
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 11, 2020, 09:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Kamala Harris it is

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1293280411150217219

Not a real surprise but I think she should help him already been vetted and not as hated as Elizabeth Warren so fairly solid choice. Big in terms of 2024 if the result goes as predicted this time I can't see sleepy Joe going for 2 terms!
willie brown gives her a big thumbs up.
Definitely not the post of a misogynist creep, no siree
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 11:05:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 11, 2020, 09:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Kamala Harris it is

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1293280411150217219

Not a real surprise but I think she should help him already been vetted and not as hated as Elizabeth Warren so fairly solid choice. Big in terms of 2024 if the result goes as predicted this time I can't see sleepy Joe going for 2 terms!
willie brown gives her a big thumbs up.
Definitely not the post of a misogynist creep, no siree
willie gave her the first big break in her career and the sordid details got out ,but  it  has BLOWN over now .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 11:09:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 11:05:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 11, 2020, 09:28:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Kamala Harris it is

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1293280411150217219

Not a real surprise but I think she should help him already been vetted and not as hated as Elizabeth Warren so fairly solid choice. Big in terms of 2024 if the result goes as predicted this time I can't see sleepy Joe going for 2 terms!
willie brown gives her a big thumbs up.
Definitely not the post of a misogynist creep, no siree
willie gave her the first big break in her career and the sordid details got out ,but  it  has BLOWN over now .
Definitely not the post of a misogynist creep, no siree

Meanwhile you remain completely silent over Trump's litany of sexual assault allegations as well as his ties to Epstein and the filed case which alleges he raped a 13 year old girl with Epstein

Strange that

Almost like Republicans openly tolerate this stuff, no almost about it

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2020, 12:00:48 PM
And while all that is going on, another racist QAnon enthusiast wins the primary in a safe GOP seat in Georgia, with the assent of Minority Leader McCarthy.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/qanon-theory-supporter-marjorie-taylor-greene-wins-gop-primary-in-georgia-11597198033 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/qanon-theory-supporter-marjorie-taylor-greene-wins-gop-primary-in-georgia-11597198033)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 09:16:48 PM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:24:38 AM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 7/4 (1.75/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Biden: 3/5
Trump: 7/4

Biden: 4/6
Trump: 6/4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 13, 2020, 01:32:48 AM
Ah jaysus the birthers are at it already:

Some Questions for Kamala Harris About Eligibility | Opinion (https://www.newsweek.com/some-questions-kamala-harris-about-eligibility-opinion-1524483?fbclid=IwAR3cO6lAzx8z01KzLLCynATaOeGZ1lYzg0YSVIIiaIv70gXAQG8blCI-CJ8)

What the hell is it about conservatives and the sight of dark skin that makes them immediately think "you don't belong here"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 12:20:29 PM
And Trump offers a hearty congratulations to the QAnon whackjob in Georgia, calling her a "future Republican star".

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1293525010523578375 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1293525010523578375)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:24:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers

The attempt at vote suppression in the recent Wisconsin election didn't work too well for them either.
If you think an election for a judge in Wisconsin is going to be a pointer for how effective the Republicans' voter suppression, propaganda and election fixing efforts will be in the presidential election, with the help of their Russian friends of course, you have another thing coming.

Sure look at how Trump is running the US postal service into the ground to prevent vote by mail.

This will be the dirtiest election of all time, it'll make 2016 look like a picnic. Republicans have every intention of pulling a Putin on this.

Over three months later and the US media is finally beginning to cop on that Trump is trying to destroy the postal service in order to fix the election.

Have a look at what happened in Belarus over the last few days. That could easily be America's future.


https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-04/undermining-postal-service-voting-trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/united-states-postal-service-trump-republicans

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/10/stop-trump-attacks-postal-service-fair-covid-election-column/3329978001/

https://www.democracynow.org/2020/8/10/usps_postmaster_general_mail_delay_ballots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8LOsDHBfQ

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trumps-attack-on-the-postal-service-is-a-threat-to-democracy-and-to-rural-america
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:24:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers

The attempt at vote suppression in the recent Wisconsin election didn't work too well for them either.
If you think an election for a judge in Wisconsin is going to be a pointer for how effective the Republicans' voter suppression, propaganda and election fixing efforts will be in the presidential election, with the help of their Russian friends of course, you have another thing coming.

Sure look at how Trump is running the US postal service into the ground to prevent vote by mail.

This will be the dirtiest election of all time, it'll make 2016 look like a picnic. Republicans have every intention of pulling a Putin on this.

Over three months later and the US media is finally beginning to cop on that Trump is trying to destroy the postal service in order to fix the election.

Have a look at what happened in Belarus over the last few days. That could easily be America's future.


https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-04/undermining-postal-service-voting-trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/united-states-postal-service-trump-republicans

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/10/stop-trump-attacks-postal-service-fair-covid-election-column/3329978001/

https://www.democracynow.org/2020/8/10/usps_postmaster_general_mail_delay_ballots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8LOsDHBfQ

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trumps-attack-on-the-postal-service-is-a-threat-to-democracy-and-to-rural-america


Rhode Island experience with mass mailing of ballots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wpri.com/target-12/ri-looks-into-undeliverable-ballot-applications-and-dead-voters/amp/

"Nearly 102,000 ballot applications for the presidential preference primary earlier this year were returned as undeliverable, representing about 13% of the total sent out in a mass mailing aimed at making it easier to vote by mail and avoid polling-place crowds during the pandemic."

But of course it's racist to try and clean up the polling rolls
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 13, 2020, 03:31:50 PM
So... the poor yanks can't buy a proper shower for love nor money.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 03:40:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:24:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers

The attempt at vote suppression in the recent Wisconsin election didn't work too well for them either.
If you think an election for a judge in Wisconsin is going to be a pointer for how effective the Republicans' voter suppression, propaganda and election fixing efforts will be in the presidential election, with the help of their Russian friends of course, you have another thing coming.

Sure look at how Trump is running the US postal service into the ground to prevent vote by mail.

This will be the dirtiest election of all time, it'll make 2016 look like a picnic. Republicans have every intention of pulling a Putin on this.

Over three months later and the US media is finally beginning to cop on that Trump is trying to destroy the postal service in order to fix the election.

Have a look at what happened in Belarus over the last few days. That could easily be America's future.


https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-04/undermining-postal-service-voting-trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/united-states-postal-service-trump-republicans

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/10/stop-trump-attacks-postal-service-fair-covid-election-column/3329978001/

https://www.democracynow.org/2020/8/10/usps_postmaster_general_mail_delay_ballots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8LOsDHBfQ

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trumps-attack-on-the-postal-service-is-a-threat-to-democracy-and-to-rural-america


Rhode Island experience with mass mailing of ballots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wpri.com/target-12/ri-looks-into-undeliverable-ballot-applications-and-dead-voters/amp/

"Nearly 102,000 ballot applications for the presidential preference primary earlier this year were returned as undeliverable, representing about 13% of the total sent out in a mass mailing aimed at making it easier to vote by mail and avoid polling-place crowds during the pandemic."

But of course it's racist to try and clean up the polling rolls

And of course its "better" to clean them up with mass sledgehammer roll purges that end up disenfranchizing loads of legitimate voters rather than carefully going through them to weed out people who have really died or passed away. Can't take any chances on the "scurge" of voter fraud!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 13, 2020, 03:31:50 PM
So... the poor yanks can't buy a proper shower for love nor money.

Water pressure, THAT'S Trump's hair problem!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjbXOSnyMeA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjbXOSnyMeA)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 03:50:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 03:40:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:24:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers

The attempt at vote suppression in the recent Wisconsin election didn't work too well for them either.
If you think an election for a judge in Wisconsin is going to be a pointer for how effective the Republicans' voter suppression, propaganda and election fixing efforts will be in the presidential election, with the help of their Russian friends of course, you have another thing coming.

Sure look at how Trump is running the US postal service into the ground to prevent vote by mail.

This will be the dirtiest election of all time, it'll make 2016 look like a picnic. Republicans have every intention of pulling a Putin on this.

Over three months later and the US media is finally beginning to cop on that Trump is trying to destroy the postal service in order to fix the election.

Have a look at what happened in Belarus over the last few days. That could easily be America's future.


https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-04/undermining-postal-service-voting-trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/united-states-postal-service-trump-republicans

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/10/stop-trump-attacks-postal-service-fair-covid-election-column/3329978001/

https://www.democracynow.org/2020/8/10/usps_postmaster_general_mail_delay_ballots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8LOsDHBfQ

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trumps-attack-on-the-postal-service-is-a-threat-to-democracy-and-to-rural-america


Rhode Island experience with mass mailing of ballots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wpri.com/target-12/ri-looks-into-undeliverable-ballot-applications-and-dead-voters/amp/

"Nearly 102,000 ballot applications for the presidential preference primary earlier this year were returned as undeliverable, representing about 13% of the total sent out in a mass mailing aimed at making it easier to vote by mail and avoid polling-place crowds during the pandemic."

But of course it's racist to try and clean up the polling rolls

And of course its "better" to clean them up with mass sledgehammer roll purges that end up disenfranchizing loads of legitimate voters rather than carefully going through them to weed out people who have really died or passed away. Can't take any chances on the "scurge" of voter fraud!

If you go to the polls and your name isn't on the voter roll you can cast a provisional ballot

"Voter suppression" is as big a pile of nonsense as  "Voter Fraud"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 03:50:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 03:40:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:24:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2020, 08:43:34 PM
Rule of law is absolutely fucked in the US. They have a trans-national crime syndicate masquerading as a goverment. Barr is Trump's Carl Schmitt.

The election is already a foregone conclusion, it'll be a fix.
Women are going to turn out in numbers

The attempt at vote suppression in the recent Wisconsin election didn't work too well for them either.
If you think an election for a judge in Wisconsin is going to be a pointer for how effective the Republicans' voter suppression, propaganda and election fixing efforts will be in the presidential election, with the help of their Russian friends of course, you have another thing coming.

Sure look at how Trump is running the US postal service into the ground to prevent vote by mail.

This will be the dirtiest election of all time, it'll make 2016 look like a picnic. Republicans have every intention of pulling a Putin on this.

Over three months later and the US media is finally beginning to cop on that Trump is trying to destroy the postal service in order to fix the election.

Have a look at what happened in Belarus over the last few days. That could easily be America's future.


https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-04/undermining-postal-service-voting-trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/united-states-postal-service-trump-republicans

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/10/stop-trump-attacks-postal-service-fair-covid-election-column/3329978001/

https://www.democracynow.org/2020/8/10/usps_postmaster_general_mail_delay_ballots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8LOsDHBfQ

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trumps-attack-on-the-postal-service-is-a-threat-to-democracy-and-to-rural-america


Rhode Island experience with mass mailing of ballots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wpri.com/target-12/ri-looks-into-undeliverable-ballot-applications-and-dead-voters/amp/

"Nearly 102,000 ballot applications for the presidential preference primary earlier this year were returned as undeliverable, representing about 13% of the total sent out in a mass mailing aimed at making it easier to vote by mail and avoid polling-place crowds during the pandemic."

But of course it's racist to try and clean up the polling rolls

And of course its "better" to clean them up with mass sledgehammer roll purges that end up disenfranchizing loads of legitimate voters rather than carefully going through them to weed out people who have really died or passed away. Can't take any chances on the "scurge" of voter fraud!

If you go to the polls and your name isn't on the voter roll you can cast a provisional ballot

"Voter suppression" is as big a pile of nonsense as  "Voter Fraud"

In most states. And even then you better hope you're at the right location or it probably won't count. Especially if the party in power is closing down precincts in your area.

I've no issue with the concept of voter IDs. What I do have an issue with is why, say, a gun license is a valid ID but a university ID is not. Or why government-issued IDs have to be purchased rather than issued without charge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 13, 2020, 05:04:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 12:20:29 PM
And Trump offers a hearty congratulations to the QAnon whackjob in Georgia, calling her a "future Republican star".

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1293525010523578375 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1293525010523578375)

Conservatives have lost their goddamn minds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on August 13, 2020, 05:06:41 PM
They would need to have minds in the first place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 13, 2020, 09:56:32 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117663659_10158579194607457_5922639236693326711_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=pQFNyUUUiu8AX_57Qlc&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=56b2ce0426e2a77b30f6bf62b1d69fb7&oe=5F598B8B)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 10:46:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 13, 2020, 05:04:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 12:20:29 PM
And Trump offers a hearty congratulations to the QAnon whackjob in Georgia, calling her a "future Republican star".

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1293525010523578375 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1293525010523578375)

Conservatives have lost their goddamn minds.

Nah... we're just starting to see what's really on their minds.

Spending... deficits... morals... its all bullshit.

Its all about conspiracies and scapegoats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 12:36:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 10:46:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 13, 2020, 05:04:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 12:20:29 PM
And Trump offers a hearty congratulations to the QAnon whackjob in Georgia, calling her a "future Republican star".

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1293525010523578375 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1293525010523578375)

Conservatives have lost their goddamn minds.

Nah... we're just starting to see what's really on their minds.

Spending... deficits... morals... its all bullshit.

Its all about conspiracies and scapegoats.

They do care about deficits, but only when in opposition. When in office they spend and borrow like drunken sailors. Expect them to revert to the fake "deficit hawk" persona in January when they're sent packing from office like the tail-tucked rodents they are. I can guarantee it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 12:52:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
More peaceful blm protesters out in force in downtown Chicago last night .

Comical

Cops get a 911 call about a person with a gun

Cops respond and suspect (age 20) opens fire on them

Cops return fire, hit suspect in the shoulder and take him into custody

Neighborhood mob reacts to fake internet rumour that unarmed  15 year old was shot dead

Between 700 and 1000 people use this as an excuse to destroy downtown Chicago

100 people arrested
saw a clip from Chicago news and the protesters are hiring u hauls the day of the looting and pulling up to the protests/looting with them and using them to get a big haul from the stores they hit .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:05:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 12:52:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
More peaceful blm protesters out in force in downtown Chicago last night .

Comical

Cops get a 911 call about a person with a gun

Cops respond and suspect (age 20) opens fire on them

Cops return fire, hit suspect in the shoulder and take him into custody

Neighborhood mob reacts to fake internet rumour that unarmed  15 year old was shot dead

Between 700 and 1000 people use this as an excuse to destroy downtown Chicago

100 people arrested
saw a clip from Chicago news and the protesters are hiring u hauls the day of the looting and pulling up to the protests/looting with them and using them to get a big haul from the stores they hit .

Saw another clip of a guy in what seemed to be a brand new Audi A8 smashing into a storefront To open it up for looters. I highly doubt it was his own car he was using


We have an office in the Loop and I spoke to people there today

Complete madness what's going on.....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/8/12/21364707/edgar-roman-charged-first-degree-murder-fatal-hit-run-hubbard-near-north-side


I said 2 months ago There was going to be a serious breakdown of law and order and it's happening

Did you see the letter to the Mayor from the guy running the property management company...ouch

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/08/12/chicago-property-management-company-president-says-residents-staff-feel-unsafe-amid-crime-unrest-demands-action-from-mayor/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 01:22:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 12:52:49 AM
saw a clip from Chicago news and the protesters are hiring u hauls the day of the looting and pulling up to the protests/looting with them and using them to get a big haul from the stores they hit .

There you go again. More upset about loss of property at the hands of looters than you are about the loss of black lives at the hands of police.

Pretty much confirms the hierarchy of victimhood that white supremacists have, with white people's property being more valuable than black people's lives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 02:21:19 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 01:22:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 12:52:49 AM
saw a clip from Chicago news and the protesters are hiring u hauls the day of the looting and pulling up to the protests/looting with them and using them to get a big haul from the stores they hit .

There you go again. More upset about loss of property at the hands of looters than you are about the loss of black lives at the hands of police.

Pretty much confirms the hierarchy of victimhood that white supremacists have, with white people's property being more valuable than black people's lives.

Hardcore white supremacist and Mayor of Chicago Lori Lightfoot (who's Black btw) gives her take:

. "But the core of what happened — that's organized criminal activity... It was a planned attack."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5878688/chicago-mayor-lori-lightfoot-looting/%3famp=true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 02:35:08 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 01:22:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 12:52:49 AM
saw a clip from Chicago news and the protesters are hiring u hauls the day of the looting and pulling up to the protests/looting with them and using them to get a big haul from the stores they hit .

There you go again. More upset about loss of property at the hands of looters than you are about the loss of black lives at the hands of police.

Pretty much confirms the hierarchy of victimhood that white supremacists have, with white people's property being more valuable than black people's lives.
your position is this is a legitimate protest and appropriate behavior?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 06:27:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 02:35:08 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 01:22:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 12:52:49 AM
saw a clip from Chicago news and the protesters are hiring u hauls the day of the looting and pulling up to the protests/looting with them and using them to get a big haul from the stores they hit .

There you go again. More upset about loss of property at the hands of looters than you are about the loss of black lives at the hands of police.

Pretty much confirms the hierarchy of victimhood that white supremacists have, with white people's property being more valuable than black people's lives.
your position is this is a legitimate protest and appropriate behavior?

Your position is that a bit of looting and damage is a bigger problem than police murdering blacks with impunity?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2020, 10:27:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:05:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 12:52:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
More peaceful blm protesters out in force in downtown Chicago last night .

Comical

Cops get a 911 call about a person with a gun

Cops respond and suspect (age 20) opens fire on them

Cops return fire, hit suspect in the shoulder and take him into custody

Neighborhood mob reacts to fake internet rumour that unarmed  15 year old was shot dead

Between 700 and 1000 people use this as an excuse to destroy downtown Chicago

100 people arrested
saw a clip from Chicago news and the protesters are hiring u hauls the day of the looting and pulling up to the protests/looting with them and using them to get a big haul from the stores they hit .

Saw another clip of a guy in what seemed to be a brand new Audi A8 smashing into a storefront To open it up for looters. I highly doubt it was his own car he was using


We have an office in the Loop and I spoke to people there today

Complete madness what's going on.....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/8/12/21364707/edgar-roman-charged-first-degree-murder-fatal-hit-run-hubbard-near-north-side


I said 2 months ago There was going to be a serious breakdown of law and order and it's happening

Did you see the letter to the Mayor from the guy running the property management company...ouch

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/08/12/chicago-property-management-company-president-says-residents-staff-feel-unsafe-amid-crime-unrest-demands-action-from-mayor/amp/

I think this clip is better though

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/12/charlottesville-crash-protesters-video-orig-vstop-dlewis.cnn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Not a video, but a picture of an Antifa bro about to get his comeuppance

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/19/boston-police-disperse-large-crowd-near-downtown-crossing/2XAwEARUVk8YdXfc7xMVnK/story.html%3foutputType=amp

I'd love to have seen the after photo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 14, 2020, 12:10:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Not a video, but a picture of an Antifa bro about to get his comeuppance

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/19/boston-police-disperse-large-crowd-near-downtown-crossing/2XAwEARUVk8YdXfc7xMVnK/story.html%3foutputType=amp

I'd love to have seen the after photo

What, the fat cop fell on his face in front of the families and the little girl?

According to the article, it was a pretty low-key event.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:07:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 12:10:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Not a video, but a picture of an Antifa bro about to get his comeuppance

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/19/boston-police-disperse-large-crowd-near-downtown-crossing/2XAwEARUVk8YdXfc7xMVnK/story.html%3foutputType=amp

I'd love to have seen the after photo

What, the fat cop fell on his face in front of the families and the little girl?

According to the article, it was a pretty low-key event.

Correct - and 150 people decided to cause trouble AFTER the main protest and were immediately confronted and dispersed by police as they should have been
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 14, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:07:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 12:10:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Not a video, but a picture of an Antifa bro about to get his comeuppance

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/19/boston-police-disperse-large-crowd-near-downtown-crossing/2XAwEARUVk8YdXfc7xMVnK/story.html%3foutputType=amp

I'd love to have seen the after photo

What, the fat cop fell on his face in front of the families and the little girl?

According to the article, it was a pretty low-key event.

Correct - and 150 people decided to cause trouble AFTER the main protest and were immediately confronted and dispersed by police as they should have been

Let's hope your bloodlust juices get similarly flowing the next time a bunch of conservatives take over some statehouse and start screaming in the faces of police and lawmakers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:36:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:07:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 12:10:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Not a video, but a picture of an Antifa bro about to get his comeuppance

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/19/boston-police-disperse-large-crowd-near-downtown-crossing/2XAwEARUVk8YdXfc7xMVnK/story.html%3foutputType=amp

I'd love to have seen the after photo

What, the fat cop fell on his face in front of the families and the little girl?

According to the article, it was a pretty low-key event.

Correct - and 150 people decided to cause trouble AFTER the main protest and were immediately confronted and dispersed by police as they should have been

Let's hope your bloodlust juices get similarly flowing the next time a bunch of conservatives take over some statehouse and start screaming in the faces of police and lawmakers.

Anyone who breaks the law should be held to account regardless of what side they represent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:41:22 PM
All you guys living in gentrified neighborhoods better watch out......you're next in the list

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1294076760078684160
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 14, 2020, 01:50:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:41:22 PM
All you guys living in gentrified neighborhoods better watch out......you're next in the list

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1294076760078684160

Yes, watch out, the scary black people are coming for you!

Maybe they should ban gentrification. That would dovetail nicely with the GOP trying to stop low-income housing in the suburbs. Keep everyone in their own neighbourhoods.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 01:50:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:41:22 PM
All you guys living in gentrified neighborhoods better watch out......you're next in the list

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1294076760078684160

Yes, watch out, the scary black people are coming for you!

Maybe they should ban gentrification. That would dovetail nicely with the GOP trying to stop low-income housing in the suburbs. Keep everyone in their own neighbourhoods.

Make of it what you want....it's right there on the video them threatening people to give their houses to Black people. I didn't put words in their mouths

BLM is a Marxist group....all the "woke" white millennials are about to have a rude awakening
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 14, 2020, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 01:50:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:41:22 PM
All you guys living in gentrified neighborhoods better watch out......you're next in the list

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1294076760078684160

Yes, watch out, the scary black people are coming for you!

Maybe they should ban gentrification. That would dovetail nicely with the GOP trying to stop low-income housing in the suburbs. Keep everyone in their own neighbourhoods.

Make of it what you want....it's right there on the video them threatening people to give their houses to Black people. I didn't put words in their mouths

BLM is a Marxist group....all the "woke" white millennials are about to have a rude awakening

Gentrification is a legitimate concern, whether its a poor/industrial area of Brooklyn, or a bucolic landscape 100 miles from a major city where the locals are being priced out of the market by well-off city people purchasing holiday homes.

As usual, conservatives don't give a f**k about any of this. All they care about is seeing the liberals cry and shouting about commies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 01:50:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:41:22 PM
All you guys living in gentrified neighborhoods better watch out......you're next in the list

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1294076760078684160

Yes, watch out, the scary black people are coming for you!

Maybe they should ban gentrification. That would dovetail nicely with the GOP trying to stop low-income housing in the suburbs. Keep everyone in their own neighbourhoods.

Make of it what you want....it's right there on the video them threatening people to give their houses to Black people. I didn't put words in their mouths

BLM is a Marxist group....all the "woke" white millennials are about to have a rude awakening

Gentrification is a legitimate concern, whether its a poor/industrial area of Brooklyn, or a bucolic landscape 100 miles from a major city where the locals are being priced out of the market by well-off city people purchasing holiday homes.

As usual, conservatives don't give a f**k about any of this. All they care about is seeing the liberals cry and shouting about commies.

I just love the hypocrisy

All the wealthy white liberals I know have millennial kids living in these gentrified neighborhoods each congratulating the other in how woke they are. I actually saw a post where someone warned the others in a book group about "White Fragility" and how maybe they shouldn't be reading it because to some people of color feel its condescending to them......couldn't make it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 14, 2020, 02:35:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 01:50:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 01:41:22 PM
All you guys living in gentrified neighborhoods better watch out......you're next in the list

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1294076760078684160

Yes, watch out, the scary black people are coming for you!

Maybe they should ban gentrification. That would dovetail nicely with the GOP trying to stop low-income housing in the suburbs. Keep everyone in their own neighbourhoods.

Make of it what you want....it's right there on the video them threatening people to give their houses to Black people. I didn't put words in their mouths

BLM is a Marxist group....all the "woke" white millennials are about to have a rude awakening

Gentrification is a legitimate concern, whether its a poor/industrial area of Brooklyn, or a bucolic landscape 100 miles from a major city where the locals are being priced out of the market by well-off city people purchasing holiday homes.

As usual, conservatives don't give a f**k about any of this. All they care about is seeing the liberals cry and shouting about commies.

I just love the hypocrisy

All the wealthy white liberals I know have millennial kids living in these gentrified neighborhoods each congratulating the other in how woke they are. I actually saw a post where someone warned the others in a book group about "White Fragility" and how maybe they shouldn't be reading it because to some people of color feel its condescending to them......couldn't make it up

Just because you happen to get an apartment in a gentrified neighbourhood doesn't make you a hypocrite. If you go around preaching about gentrification while, say, opposing measures that might help counter it such as the inclusion of affordable housing in any new developments, then you would be a hypocrite.

It must be great to be a conservative. You can sneer at the liberals getting caught out partaking in the system, while at the same time not giving a single f**k about any of the problems yourself. You don't care that neighbourhoods are being gentrified, so you are free to oppose measures such low income housing without anyone labelling you a hypocrite, while at the same time gloating over your "woke" acquaintances discomfort.

Because its all about making the liberals cry. That's all that matters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 03:36:14 PM
Ah....J70 you need to get out of the city and live in a town with rich white liberals to really have your eyes opened

I could regale you with tales for a month that would make your head spin.

One doctor and his wife in our town  who have a Prius with a "we are the 99% " sticker had an elderly neighbor who passed away. Her grandson inherited the house and they proceeded to make his life a living hell with frivolous legal issues. He didn't have the money to fight them and in the end just sold them the house, which they then proceeded to knock so they could enlarge their garden.

The richest person I know who made all his money on Wall Street had a son participating in the Occupy protests.....then retiring to his parents $3M condo in the Back Bay for some well deserved R&R (that's just one of their houses)

Maybe you just don't meet people like that in the city


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:25:47 PM
This is why right-wingers around the world are so intent on destroying education, and on waging a war to spread stupidity.

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1294270279062036480

new Pew Research national poll:

whites without college degree
Trump 64%, Biden 34%

everyone else
Biden 68%, Trump 30%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 05:07:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:25:47 PM
This is why right-wingers around the world are so intent on destroying education, and on waging a war to spread stupidity.

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1294270279062036480

new Pew Research national poll:

whites without college degree
Trump 64%, Biden 34%

everyone else
Biden 68%, Trump 30%

Sid....what you'd know if you lived here, is that a lot of these folks you're demonizing, actually used to be reliable Democratic voters, but the Democrats no longer share their values

https://apps.bostonglobe.com/nation/politics/2019/11/voters-2020-election/pennsylvania/erie/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 05:36:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 02:35:53 PM


Just because you happen to get an apartment in a gentrified neighbourhood doesn't make you a hypocrite. If you go around preaching about gentrification while, say, opposing measures that might help counter it such as the inclusion of affordable housing in any new developments, then you would be a hypocrite.

It must be great to be a conservative. You can sneer at the liberals getting caught out partaking in the system, while at the same time not giving a single f**k about any of the problems yourself. You don't care that neighbourhoods are being gentrified, so you are free to oppose measures such low income housing without anyone labelling you a hypocrite, while at the same time gloating over your "woke" acquaintances discomfort.

Because its all about making the liberals cry. That's all that matters.

Conservatives (particularly the "don't park in front of my house" crowd) are some of the biggest NIMBYs out there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 06:03:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 05:36:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 14, 2020, 02:35:53 PM


Just because you happen to get an apartment in a gentrified neighbourhood doesn't make you a hypocrite. If you go around preaching about gentrification while, say, opposing measures that might help counter it such as the inclusion of affordable housing in any new developments, then you would be a hypocrite.

It must be great to be a conservative. You can sneer at the liberals getting caught out partaking in the system, while at the same time not giving a single f**k about any of the problems yourself. You don't care that neighbourhoods are being gentrified, so you are free to oppose measures such low income housing without anyone labelling you a hypocrite, while at the same time gloating over your "woke" acquaintances discomfort.

Because its all about making the liberals cry. That's all that matters.

Conservatives (particularly the "don't park in front of my house" crowd) are some of the biggest NIMBYs out there.
does all this gentrification of  city neighborhoods cause homelessness  ? what do you think .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 06:42:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 06:03:48 PM
does all this gentrification of  city neighborhoods cause homelessness  ? what do you think .

Homelessness has a lot of causes. This is not an exhaustive list but here are some of the causes as I see them:

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 07:38:38 PM
Remember when I said conservatives wouldn't have a clue whether to attack Harris for being black, Indian, or a woman? How they wouldn't know which bigoted gear to engage? Would be absolutely baffled by her because their black-and-white conservative brains are incapable of dealing with the slightest bit of complexity? Well here we are:

QuoteRepublicans are trying to decide whether Kamala Harris is "legally" Black

By Bil Browning Wednesday, August 12, 2020

Now that presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden has named Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) as his running mate, Republicans have been scrambling to find a line of attack against her.

One of the worst that they're mounting is whether or not she is "legally" Black.

Related: Have you seen Kamala Harris' hot stepson?

While David Bernstein over at Reason spent time trying to figure out how Harris should classify herself on government documents and the technical guidelines surrounding them, others, like pundits Dinesh D'Souza and Mark Levin, took a simpler route.

They say she isn't an African American because her father is Jamaican and her mother is Indian. Both her parents immigrated to the United States.

The line is similar to the racist birther attacks lobbed at former President Barack Obama, a Black man whose father is Kenyan. Donald Trump was a staunch proponent of the racist claims that Obama isn't "American."

"I'm not going to be a stickler about this," Levin said on his BlazeTV show, "but the media will insist on it. Kamala Harris is not an African American. She is Indian and Jamaican."

"African American in the American context generally means having a direct relationship to the experiences of slavery and segregation and Jim Crow so on," D'Souza said on Fox News. "And the point I'm trying to make is that Kamala Harris seems to be descended less from the legacy of, let's say, Frederick Douglass, than she is from the legacy of the plantation itself."

Jamelle Bouie responded to the idea that Jamaicans can't be Black on Twitter: "How does Mark Levin think Black people got to Jamaica?"

He pointed out that enslaved African people were brought to Jamaica and white slave owners in Jamaica often had children with enslaved Africans, which means that Harris's ancestry on her father's side is similar to many Black people's in the U.S.

"'Black America' has always been a diverse collection of backgrounds (descendants of US slaves, free-born and immigrants), admixtures and phenotypes," he wrote.

Moreover, Harris is "Black in an American context" because of how she gets treated in the U.S. due to her physical appearance, according to Bouie.

During one of the most talked-about moments of the Democratic primary, Harris attacked Biden for his previous opposition to school busing, pointing out that she was part of the second class to integrate a public school after being bused there from her neighborhood.

Even Black conservative gadflies Diamond and Silk got in on the action, flat out asserting that Harris "isn't Black," even though she identifies as Black.

"But see you have got to understand something about Kamala Harris," Silk told a morning talk show host. "Kamala is not even Black. So you know when she talks about racism, that's why she don't care about it. She's not even Black."

"She claiming now she is Black. Somebody claimed that she was Asian American and then they are saying she's Indian. I don't know what she is," Diamond added.

In early 2019, as she launched her own presidential campaign, Harris responded to the allegations that she's not "Black enough."

"So, I was born in Oakland," she said, laughing with a host of the popular radio show The Breakfast Club, "and raised in the United States except for the years I was in high school and in Montreal, Canada."

"And, look, this is the same thing they did to Barack. This is not new to us. And so, I think that we know what they're trying to do. They're trying to do what's been happening over the past two years which is powerful voices trying to sow division and hate among us."

"And so we need to recognize when we're being played."

After a quick look at all the various legal definitions, back over at Reason, Bernstein finally concluded that, yes, Kamala Harris is "legally" Black.

"In short, under American law, no one could deny Harris's right to assert that she is half-Indian and less-than-half of African ancestry, but so long as she considers herself, and is considered by others, to be African American, for legal purposes she is black," he wrote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 06:42:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 06:03:48 PM
does all this gentrification of  city neighborhoods cause homelessness  ? what do you think .

Homelessness has a lot of causes. This is not an exhaustive list but here are some of the causes as I see them:


  • Stagnant wages
  • The expense of being poor
  • Lack of financial acumen (should be taught in school IMHO)
  • Poor land use that forces people to travel big distances for work or any other purpose
  • Lack of a social safety net that would help homeless people to get back into the system
  • Housing shortages, which are caused by


    • Convoluted planning rules
    • Height limits that make it hard to build anything taller than a gas station
    • Mandatory parking minimums that increase the expense of development while also encouraging more traffic
    • Perverse tax incentives that encourage commercial development but discourage residential development (like Prop 13 in California) resulting in some cities having a jobs/housing imbalance
    • NIMBYism, which is caused by


      • Subsidized high rates of home ownership which incentivizes people to shut newcomers out of the housing market to protect their own investment
      • Mostly bogus concerns about shadows, changes to neighborhood character, traffic, etc.
      • The "I'm all right jack to hell with you" attitude

you forgot the number 1 reason drug and alcohol addiction.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2020, 10:18:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 06:42:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 06:03:48 PM
does all this gentrification of  city neighborhoods cause homelessness  ? what do you think .

Homelessness has a lot of causes. This is not an exhaustive list but here are some of the causes as I see them:


  • Stagnant wages
  • The expense of being poor
  • Lack of financial acumen (should be taught in school IMHO)
  • Poor land use that forces people to travel big distances for work or any other purpose
  • Lack of a social safety net that would help homeless people to get back into the system
  • Housing shortages, which are caused by


    • Convoluted planning rules
    • Height limits that make it hard to build anything taller than a gas station
    • Mandatory parking minimums that increase the expense of development while also encouraging more traffic
    • Perverse tax incentives that encourage commercial development but discourage residential development (like Prop 13 in California) resulting in some cities having a jobs/housing imbalance
    • NIMBYism, which is caused by


      • Subsidized high rates of home ownership which incentivizes people to shut newcomers out of the housing market to protect their own investment
      • Mostly bogus concerns about shadows, changes to neighborhood character, traffic, etc.
      • The "I'm all right jack to hell with you" attitude

you forgot the number 1 reason drug and alcohol addiction.

LOL-why would he have included that?


He couldn't blame Republicans if he told the truth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 15, 2020, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 06:42:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 06:03:48 PM
does all this gentrification of  city neighborhoods cause homelessness  ? what do you think .

Homelessness has a lot of causes. This is not an exhaustive list but here are some of the causes as I see them:


  • Stagnant wages
  • The expense of being poor
  • Lack of financial acumen (should be taught in school IMHO)
  • Poor land use that forces people to travel big distances for work or any other purpose
  • Lack of a social safety net that would help homeless people to get back into the system
  • Housing shortages, which are caused by


    • Convoluted planning rules
    • Height limits that make it hard to build anything taller than a gas station
    • Mandatory parking minimums that increase the expense of development while also encouraging more traffic
    • Perverse tax incentives that encourage commercial development but discourage residential development (like Prop 13 in California) resulting in some cities having a jobs/housing imbalance
    • NIMBYism, which is caused by


      • Subsidized high rates of home ownership which incentivizes people to shut newcomers out of the housing market to protect their own investment
      • Mostly bogus concerns about shadows, changes to neighborhood character, traffic, etc.
      • The "I'm all right jack to hell with you" attitude

you forgot the number 1 reason drug and alcohol addiction.

What's your source for that claim? According to the first source I found that comes in at number 5 for individuals and not in the top 5 for families:

QuoteAccording to the most recent annual survey by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, major cities across the country report that top causes of homelessness among families were: (1) lack of affordable housing, (2) unemployment, (3) poverty, and (4) low wages, in that order. The same report found that the top four causes of homelessness among unaccompanied individuals were (1) lack of affordable housing, (2) unemployment, (3) poverty, (4) mental illness and the lack of needed services, and (5) substance abuse and the lack of needed services.

U.S. States Conference of Mayors, Hunger and Homelessness Survey: A STATUS ON HUNGER AND HOMELESS IN AMERICA'S CITIES –
A 25-CITY SURVEY 2 (Dec. 2014), http://www.usmayors.org/pressreleases/uploads/2014/1211-report-hh.pdf.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 15, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Biden campaign refusing to go on any of the Sunday morning news shows , I wonder why
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on August 16, 2020, 01:26:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Biden campaign refusing to go on any of the Sunday morning news shows , I wonder why

Because he is winning 🙄
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 16, 2020, 11:18:45 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 16, 2020, 01:26:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Biden campaign refusing to go on any of the Sunday morning news shows , I wonder why

Because he is winning 🙄

Exactly....all he needs to do is run down the clock

Nothing to be gained by going on TV, although this tactic may not sit well with some of the people whose vote he needs to win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 17, 2020, 09:26:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 16, 2020, 11:18:45 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 16, 2020, 01:26:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Biden campaign refusing to go on any of the Sunday morning news shows , I wonder why

Because he is winning 🙄

Exactly....all he needs to do is run down the clock

Nothing to be gained by going on TV, although this tactic may not sit well with some of the people whose vote he needs to win.

didn't harm Boris by not going on with Andrew Neil and even hiding in a fridge FFS.

I'd say the Trump campaign are desperate for Biden to make a slip of some sort and a TV debate between the two may very well be a car crash for both and a sad indictment of American politics.

Yer one would wipe the floor with Pence if there were a VP debate.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 12:32:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 03:36:14 PM
Ah....J70 you need to get out of the city and live in a town with rich white liberals to really have your eyes opened

I could regale you with tales for a month that would make your head spin.

One doctor and his wife in our town  who have a Prius with a "we are the 99% " sticker had an elderly neighbor who passed away. Her grandson inherited the house and they proceeded to make his life a living hell with frivolous legal issues. He didn't have the money to fight them and in the end just sold them the house, which they then proceeded to knock so they could enlarge their garden.

The richest person I know who made all his money on Wall Street had a son participating in the Occupy protests.....then retiring to his parents $3M condo in the Back Bay for some well deserved R&R (that's just one of their houses)

Maybe you just don't meet people like that in the city

I don't live in a rich neighbourhood/town or have rich friends (my sister and her husband are doctors, albeit salaried ones, so they are very comfortable, but not rich).

Not sure what the point of your anecdotes are though.

No one ever claimed that individual liberals can't be NIMBY arseholes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 12:34:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 16, 2020, 11:18:45 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 16, 2020, 01:26:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Biden campaign refusing to go on any of the Sunday morning news shows , I wonder why

Because he is winning 🙄

Exactly....all he needs to do is run down the clock

Nothing to be gained by going on TV, although this tactic may not sit well with some of the people whose vote he needs to win.

The way Trump and GOP are going on, if Joe shows up to the debate and doesn't spill his Complan drink or piss his trousers on stage, it will be a win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 12:37:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 14, 2020, 10:18:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2020, 06:42:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 14, 2020, 06:03:48 PM
does all this gentrification of  city neighborhoods cause homelessness  ? what do you think .

Homelessness has a lot of causes. This is not an exhaustive list but here are some of the causes as I see them:


  • Stagnant wages
  • The expense of being poor
  • Lack of financial acumen (should be taught in school IMHO)
  • Poor land use that forces people to travel big distances for work or any other purpose
  • Lack of a social safety net that would help homeless people to get back into the system
  • Housing shortages, which are caused by


    • Convoluted planning rules
    • Height limits that make it hard to build anything taller than a gas station
    • Mandatory parking minimums that increase the expense of development while also encouraging more traffic
    • Perverse tax incentives that encourage commercial development but discourage residential development (like Prop 13 in California) resulting in some cities having a jobs/housing imbalance
    • NIMBYism, which is caused by


      • Subsidized high rates of home ownership which incentivizes people to shut newcomers out of the housing market to protect their own investment
      • Mostly bogus concerns about shadows, changes to neighborhood character, traffic, etc.
      • The "I'm all right jack to hell with you" attitude

you forgot the number 1 reason drug and alcohol addiction.

LOL-why would he have included that?


He couldn't blame Republicans if he told the truth

IS that the leading cause of homelessness?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 17, 2020, 02:50:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 12:34:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 16, 2020, 11:18:45 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 16, 2020, 01:26:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Biden campaign refusing to go on any of the Sunday morning news shows , I wonder why

Because he is winning 🙄

Exactly....all he needs to do is run down the clock

Nothing to be gained by going on TV, although this tactic may not sit well with some of the people whose vote he needs to win.

The way Trump and GOP are going on, if Joe shows up to the debate and doesn't spill his Complan drink or piss his trousers on stage, it will be a win.

Sure Trump could lend him one of those incontinence pads he wears.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 17, 2020, 02:56:25 PM
He can't even wear a polo shirt without getting his bronzer all over it. This was also taken when his brother was dying in a hospital and was "too busy" to throw out a pitch at a Yankees game

(https://i.imgur.com/5vmdKqw.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 03:13:54 PM
I don't think you would find too many reasonable people making a case FOR Trump

Unfortunately, what the Democrats have done (again!) is give people a reason to vote AGAINST them

I heard this morning that under Joe/Kamala's tax plan, a married couple making $78K would see their marginal rate double from 12% to 24%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 03:13:54 PM
I don't think you would find too many reasonable people making a case FOR Trump

Unfortunately, what the Democrats have done (again!) is give people a reason to vote AGAINST them

I heard this morning that under Joe/Kamala's tax plan, a married couple making $78K would see their marginal rate double from 12% to 24%
joes lead down to 4 points according to abc poll this morning.
Hi
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 03:13:54 PM
I don't think you would find too many reasonable people making a case FOR Trump

Unfortunately, what the Democrats have done (again!) is give people a reason to vote AGAINST them

I heard this morning that under Joe/Kamala's tax plan, a married couple making $78K would see their marginal rate double from 12% to 24%
joes lead down to 4 points according to abc poll this morning.
Hi

THIS ABC/Post poll released this morning has Biden up 11 points.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html)

What poll are you referring to?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:56:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 03:13:54 PM
I don't think you would find too many reasonable people making a case FOR Trump

Unfortunately, what the Democrats have done (again!) is give people a reason to vote AGAINST them

I heard this morning that under Joe/Kamala's tax plan, a married couple making $78K would see their marginal rate double from 12% to 24%
joes lead down to 4 points according to abc poll this morning.
Hi

THIS ABC/Post poll released this morning has Biden up 11 points.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html)

What poll are you referring to?
was on the abc news , good to see you survived the last week in nyc 75 shot 14 killed . Catching up on Chicago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 04:15:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 03:13:54 PM
I don't think you would find too many reasonable people making a case FOR Trump

Unfortunately, what the Democrats have done (again!) is give people a reason to vote AGAINST them

I heard this morning that under Joe/Kamala's tax plan, a married couple making $78K would see their marginal rate double from 12% to 24%

Trump's tax cuts are fixed for another five years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 04:21:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:56:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 03:13:54 PM
I don't think you would find too many reasonable people making a case FOR Trump

Unfortunately, what the Democrats have done (again!) is give people a reason to vote AGAINST them

I heard this morning that under Joe/Kamala's tax plan, a married couple making $78K would see their marginal rate double from 12% to 24%
joes lead down to 4 points according to abc poll this morning.
Hi

THIS ABC/Post poll released this morning has Biden up 11 points.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html)

What poll are you referring to?
was on the abc news , good to see you survived the last week in nyc 75 shot 14 killed . Catching up on Chicago.

Appears to be a CNN poll. RCP average is 7.5% lead for Biden.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-narrowing-gap-with-biden-new-poll-shows (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-narrowing-gap-with-biden-new-poll-shows)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 04:22:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:56:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 03:13:54 PM
I don't think you would find too many reasonable people making a case FOR Trump

Unfortunately, what the Democrats have done (again!) is give people a reason to vote AGAINST them

I heard this morning that under Joe/Kamala's tax plan, a married couple making $78K would see their marginal rate double from 12% to 24%
joes lead down to 4 points according to abc poll this morning.
Hi

THIS ABC/Post poll released this morning has Biden up 11 points.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html)

What poll are you referring to?
was on the abc news , good to see you survived the last week in nyc 75 shot 14 killed . Catching up on Chicago.

Your attempt to change the subject is noted. I've also been looking for this ABC News poll that shows Biden's lead down to 4 points. Got a source? Or were you just hungover when you watched it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 17, 2020, 04:31:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 04:21:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:56:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 03:13:54 PM
I don't think you would find too many reasonable people making a case FOR Trump

Unfortunately, what the Democrats have done (again!) is give people a reason to vote AGAINST them

I heard this morning that under Joe/Kamala's tax plan, a married couple making $78K would see their marginal rate double from 12% to 24%
joes lead down to 4 points according to abc poll this morning.
Hi

THIS ABC/Post poll released this morning has Biden up 11 points.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/post-abc-poll-shows-biden-harris-hold-double-digit-lead-over-trump-pence/2020/08/16/d5c9c312-dfe6-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html)

What poll are you referring to?
was on the abc news , good to see you survived the last week in nyc 75 shot 14 killed . Catching up on Chicago.

Appears to be a CNN poll. RCP average is 7.5% lead for Biden.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-narrowing-gap-with-biden-new-poll-shows (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-narrowing-gap-with-biden-new-poll-shows)

CNN polling is all over the place tbf

QuoteCNN polls since end of primary:

April: Biden +11
May: Biden +5
June: Biden +14
August: Biden +4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 04:35:53 PM
I'd say there's at least a 3-4% undercount of Trumps support in the polls

A lot of people I know won't publicly admit they're going to vote for him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 04:37:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 04:35:53 PM
I'd say there's at least a 3-4% undercount of Trumps support in the polls

A lot of people I know won't publicly admit they're going to vote for him

Would the opposite not be just as true in many parts of the country for Biden supporters?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 04:44:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 04:37:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 04:35:53 PM
I'd say there's at least a 3-4% undercount of Trumps support in the polls

A lot of people I know won't publicly admit they're going to vote for him

Would the opposite not be just as true in many parts of the country for Biden supporters?

No
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 17, 2020, 04:54:11 PM
Noted pollster "whitey" there with the expert opinion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 04:59:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 17, 2020, 04:54:11 PM
Noted pollster "whitey" there with the expert opinion

Haha-I thought you guys would get a laugh out of that

Just a gut feeling that this could be a hack of a lot closer than people think

Trump deserves to lose just based on his own stupidity and incompetence, but the Democrats are going to do everything they can to fvck this up

Remember-the election will be decided by about 5% of the electorate in 7 separate states.

If 80,000 people has switched sides in 2016 Hillary would have won.....out of 135,000,000 votes cast
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on August 17, 2020, 05:27:32 PM
Michael Moore, putting a lot of effort into get Trump out, his latest Facebook post;


MY PLAN FOR HOW TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE AN ELECTION, TRUMP IS REMOVED, AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE GONE FOR GOOD
by Michael Moore

TRUMP HAS DECLARED WAR ON US AND OUR DEMOCRACY.

IT’S TIME FOR US TO PUT OUR LIVES ON THE LINE, IF NECESSARY, AND TO MAKE HIM THE LAST REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT OF OUR UNITED STATES.

Trump, right now, tonight, is up to some very nasty, scary stuff — stuff we can’t even imagine — and of course we can’t imagine it because we don’t think like Trump. Our brains are wired for love, empathy, solidarity, compassion, freedom, person, woman, man, camera, TV.

You know like I know that Trump has a devious, wicked plan to destroy this Election. We need to declare, immediately, that it is he and the Republican Party who have to go, for the sake of this country’s existence, they must be crushed and removed.

Trump actually has an arsenal of plans already in action to ensure he never leaves office. He has them all in high gear — some visible, some not. If you could see them all you’d be so stunned, you’d have to immediately convince yourself that there’s no way he can pull this off.

We are all caught in Trump’s Matrix, a mad web, the work of a psychopath-in-chief with tricks so devious that fascists of old, if alive today, would marvel at what Trump has accomplished.

For the next 11 weeks — and then for the 12 weeks between the Election and the Inauguration — Trump is planning nothing but anarchy, chaos, a call to arms of his angry white male followers and the complete destruction of our democracy. You think I’m kidding? You think I’m overstating the case? Do you want to take the risk that I might not be wrong? Most of you understandably chose not to listen to me four years ago when I warned you Trump was going to win the Presidency by taking Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. May I please ask that you now give me your serious attention for what I am about to say — because if I’m right again this time, there won’t be a next time. There will be nothing left for me to warn you about. There probably won’t be much left of me.

Here’s how Trump plans to end our right to choose the next President and Congress. It will happen fast. I am also laying out here a battle plan for us to defeat this takeover of our democracy. We must act now.

HERE ARE TRUMP’S 5 PLANS ALREADY IN MOTION:

PLAN #1: Create Chaos. Instill Fear. Fire Up the Base with Racist Vigor. Pandemonium Ensues.
CHECK. DONE.

PLAN #2: Suppress the Vote
•Dismantle the Post Office.
•Create 4-Hour-Long Lines by Drastically Reducing Number of Polling Locations.
•Throw Black and Brown Voters Off the Rolls.
•Stop Those Who’ve Served Time from Voting.
•Place 50,000 “Poll Watchers” at Voting Sites Around the Country to Intimidate Voters.
VOTER SUPPRESSION IN ACTION AS WE SPEAK.

PLAN #3: Postpone the Election. Place the blame on a “legitimate” national tragedy or emergency  — massive deaths from the pandemic, a terrorist attack, an assassination, a deadly hurricane, a civil war in the streets, one or both Presidential candidates falling ill to Covid-19 —  anything that reasonable people, even people who are opposed to Trump, will agree that “we just can’t hold an election right now! We just need to postpone it for a couple days, a couple weeks (a couple months... a couple years...)” Or perhaps he’ll just cancel the Election outright and see if he can get away with it.
TRUMP READY TO PULL THE TRIGGER.

PLAN #4: His September Surprise.
His October Surprise.
His November Surprise.
His January Surprise.
You think you can guess what it will be, but trust me, it’ll be far worse. We need to be ready. Stay on high alert, my friends. Millions of us will need to act on a moment’s notice. It’s the grim reaper of Democracy at our doorstep. We made the mistake of letting Trump get this far — why wouldn’t he now think he can get away with everything??
THE SURPRISE IS UNKNOWN. THAT’S WHY IT’S A SURPRISE.

PLAN #5: He Will Not Leave.
When Trump loses, he will declare the Election invalid, rigged, stolen — and he will refuse to step down.

So, what will we do then?

HERE IS OUR BATTLE PLAN TO REMOVE TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICANS:

1. Do Not Wait — Biden/Harris Should Start Running the Country Now.
We simply don’t have time to wait until January 20, 2021. Nearly 200,000 of us have already died from Trump’s reckless incompetence with the coronavirus. By Election Day it’s possible another 100,000 to 200,000 of us will have needlessly died. A total of 400,000 dead? That’s the equivalent of one hundred and thirty-three 9/11s! Or 532 planes being flown into 532 buildings. If something that horrific ever happened, and the President not only didn’t do anything about it, but tried to pretend it wasn’t all that bad - “it is what it is” - he would be run out of the White House by an angry mob of millions of Americans, lucky not to have his head put on a spike on the Key Bridge over the Potomac.

It doesn’t have to come to that. Biden and Harris should present to America a simple nationwide plan to end the pandemic — and then act on it immediately.

They should call a meeting of all the Governors and ask them what help do they need — and then find a way to get them that help, going around Trump and just making it happen. They should ask industry, in lieu of campaign contributions, to produce hundreds of millions of instant-result tests. They should call their Heads of State friends overseas and ask them to send all the PPE they can spare. They should get 250 million Americans to take the “Face Mask Pledge.” And they should promise the scientists in our top universities all the money and help they need once they’re in office. Ignore Trump. Treat him as if he’s irrelevant and get the job done.

2. The Republican Party Must Be Crushed and Destroyed. Trump Must Become the Last Republican President.

   In the Michigan county where I live, the August primary this month set a record turnout for a presidential-year primary. In fact, more people this year voted by mail-in ballot than ALL those who voted in 2016 — by mail-in AND in-person combined. This is a highly encouraging sign for what we now need to do:
   • We must create an historic massive turnout between now and November 3rd — a tsunami of voters the likes of which have never been seen, and may never be seen again. In 2016, 66 million Americans voted for Hillary Clinton. This time, though, we have to WALLOP Trump with an electoral concussion, a blow so profound he won’t know what hit him. This must be a defeat so crushing, so humiliating, a whooping of such epic proportions that he will be forced to leave 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue with his tail between his legs on January 20th. This mammoth landslide must not only ensure that no president ever behaves this way again, we need to see to it that Trump is the last Republican president. The Election Day Uprising must put an end to this party of Trump enablers and traitors. They had a choice. They chose Trump over Democracy. They chose Putin and Netanyahu over fair elections and freedom for all. They chose the 1% over the 160 million working Americans. They chose the NRA over the massacred children of Sandy Hook. They chose to rig our elections, our textbooks, our economy. Democrats helped them along the way, and we’ll take the stick to them and fix that. The Republicans, though, chose to let hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens perish from Covid-19 because loyalty to Party and to Trump was greater than their duty to the American people. For that alone, the Republican Party must be put out of business for good. Vote out every last one of them. Conservatives will have to form a new party, much like when the Whigs were sent packing in the 1800s. The Republicans must pay for their crimes.

   • We must flip the Senate —- and not just by the three seats we need for control. We should shock the pundit class and, as the Republican Party is reduced to ashes, grab a solid 55+ seat majority. Colorado, Arizona, Maine, North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, Montana and even Kansas, South Carolina and, yes, Texas (a state that is now 57% non-white) — are all possible Democratic Senate wins. Think about spending a weekend or a week helping out in one of these states. The Republicans will wish they had managed this pandemic better and had everyone busy back at work by now. All this “free time” should make for their undoing.

   • Finally, we have to vote the local Republicans out of office, too. State Houses and Senates will be drawing the electoral map for the next ten years. We can’t let the cheating Republicans do this again. Do what you can to elect Dems in your state and local elections. The punishment of the Republican Party — a certified terrorist organization for having helped kill at least 200,000 Americans — is an imperative.


3. Who Would Be Willing To, If Need Be, Put Their Life on the Line To Ensure This Election Is Held and EVERYONE Gets to Vote? I Would. Would You?

   These steps must be taken immediately:
     • The Secret Service, the FBI, the Capitol Police and the Joint Chiefs of Staff must be called before Congress and swear under oath that they will guarantee that the election will be held, they will enforce the Constitution they swore to uphold, and if he’s defeated but refuses to leave, they will escort the former President of the United States out of the White House.

     • Biden and Harris must put Trump on notice that if he does one more thing to interfere with the Election or issues one more threat to suppress the vote, they will turn him and his crime family over to the new Justice Department for prosecution.

     • Every single one of us must be strong in our publicly-stated resolve that there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON ON EARTH TO POSTPONE OR CANCEL THE ELECTION. That’s our unmovable and intractable position. No national tragedy, disease, threat or the melting of all of Greenland will cause us not to vote on or before November 3rd. Even if, God forbid, either candidate passes in their sleep between now and Election Day, the Election will continue — and the winner’s VP - or Nancy Pelosi - will become President on Inauguration Day.

     • Let’s all pledge that, if Trump tries to cancel the election or if he refuses to accept its results, millions of us will go to DC and encircle the White House, a thousand deep, until he backs down, resigns or is removed.

   • And, if you can, quietly make this commitment to yourself: “There are only a very few things I’d be willing to give my life for. This is one of them.” I know. That’s dark. And heavy. And awfully sad because it shouldn’t have come to this. But if we can’t even say that, then what good are we? If we aren’t willing to make that sacrifice, then America is already over and we might as well just fold our tent and see if Canada will take the non-racist, non-homophobic, non war-mongering ones of us who have manners and get satire.

4. Become an Election Defender.
   
   Each of you should form an urgent action group - a rapid response team - in your neighborhood or town and do the following:

     • Hold a daily protest at your local post office
     • Picket the home of your local Postmaster (he/she may be on your side, so bring them some baked goods)
     • Chain yourself to a local blue USPS dropbox if you can find one. Or chain it to something that won’t move.
     • Sign up with the city clerk to be a poll worker on Election Day - especially if you’re young. Because of the pandemic, polls will be very short of poll workers. If you’re told they have enough help, then call the local Democratic Party and offer to be a “poll watcher”, the group of people from each party who get to oversee the voting to make sure there are no irregularities.
     • Demand your city create more voting locations. Convince owners of arenas, theaters, ball parks, malls - places with large open spaces - to offer their facilities as polling places so that everyone gets a chance to vote.
     • Canvas your neighborhoods over the next month to get people to fill out the form you’ll have them sign to get a mail-in ballot — and if they want to vote in person, let them know when the first day is so they can do that. Make a list of who needs a Covid-safe ride. The earlier the better!


5. The Uprising We’re In Is Only Getting Bigger. The People Will Now Call the Shots.
   
   Why wait for the politicians to fix the mess of a country we’re in when they helped orchestrate the mess in the first place? Why don’t we just declare how we want to live — a new way to govern and function as a country — and we will finally fulfill the promise of the American Dream that has never been realized. Life, liberty, true equality, a sharing of the wealth, being good citizens of this world and kind stewards of a fragile Earth.

What have we learned from this pandemic? What we already knew: That employer-based health insurance can evaporate in an instant. Health care is a human right.

That being told “we can’t afford that!” (free college, free child care, free medical care - the things most advanced nations have) is total BS — the government CAN afford anything we decide we need!

We’ve learned that teachers, nurses, the mailwoman, farm workers, mass transit drivers and the minimum wage workers stocking the grocery shelves at 3 in the morning are our most important citizens and they need the respect and income they deserve immediately.  74% of the country now believes a guaranteed annual income is a great idea — fifty percentage points higher than when Andrew Yang proposed it 7 months ago!

We’ve learned to slow down, consume less  — and that is what may be the path to saving the planet (when the 4% of its inhabitants [US] is no longer sucking up 25% of its resources and hoarding more than half its wealth).

We’re about to go elect more women than ever before — a time to turn the reins over to the gender that stands a better chance of getting us through the deadly viruses of Covid, Capitalism and Republicans(R.I.P.).

None of this will be launched by politicians. It will only come about through you and me taking action as part of the largest protest movement in our history — still growing, still going strong! — to end the racism, the abuse of the police state, the disgusting income inequality and the hateful misogyny that is going to come to an end in our lifetime.

America, post-pandemic, must become a very different place. Let’s make this happen. Doing the above will be the best cure for the trauma of these past four years.

Commit to being the change.
Organize your friends and family today.
Make your plan to campaign in a swing state Sept. or Oct.
VOTE AS EARLY AS YOU CAN—and take 5 people along with you!

We can do this. Trump - we’re coming for you. I’ll be in the first U-Haul truck that pulls up to your door.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 05:41:42 PM
How much of that nonsense do you believe?

Regarding Dirty tricks-what if Trumps campaign paid a foreign spy to compile a dossier of unverified rumours about Joe Biden, then funneled it to rogue anti Biden FBI agents, who in turn used it as the basis for wiretaps on Biden's  campaign ?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: glens73 on August 17, 2020, 06:03:27 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Michael Moore is more dangerous than Trump...

Whatever you think of him, the US is one fecked country for any citizen to even think half of that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Trumpers have always been blaming the "liberals" for forcing them to vote for Trump. The "personal responsibility" crowd doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for voting for Trump. "The liburls made us do it!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:42 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

I think we are way past the point where we need to worry about not antagonizing or energizing the type of person who is enthusiastic about Trump. Those idiots are going to come out for him in droves, no matter what.

Dismiss Moore as a overzealous crank if you wish, but its not as if Trump hasn't toyed, very publicly, with the very things Moore is talking about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:07:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Trumpers have always been blaming the "liberals" for forcing them to vote for Trump. The "personal responsibility" crowd doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for voting for Trump. "The liburls made us do it!"

Yep... what was it, seventeen options they had in the primary in 2016?

But they simply had no choice but to go with the racist, bigoted, corrupt, cowardly, wannabe strongman bully.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Trumpers have always been blaming the "liberals" for forcing them to vote for Trump. The "personal responsibility" crowd doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for voting for Trump. "The liburls made us do it!"

Who ever said that?

What SWING VOTERS (who are the ones who decide the election)  will tell you, is that relative to Trump, the Democratic option was an even WORSE option. So go ahead and mangle and twist that into something you feel fits your narrative. No one forced anyone to do anything, but one party (Democrats) had policies that did not align with the beliefs of the people who's votes they needed to win

LOL-do you think that government mandated low income Housing in suburban towns is a winning issue for Democrats?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:26:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:07:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Trumpers have always been blaming the "liberals" for forcing them to vote for Trump. The "personal responsibility" crowd doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for voting for Trump. "The liburls made us do it!"

Yep... what was it, seventeen options they had in the primary in 2016?

But they simply had no choice but to go with the racist, bigoted, corrupt, cowardly, wannabe strongman bully.

Well that's the problem with the Primary system isn't it, and then your buddies in the MSM giving Trump all the free airtime because at the time he was the only Republican losing to your gal pal Hillary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:34:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:26:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:07:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Trumpers have always been blaming the "liberals" for forcing them to vote for Trump. The "personal responsibility" crowd doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for voting for Trump. "The liburls made us do it!"

Yep... what was it, seventeen options they had in the primary in 2016?

But they simply had no choice but to go with the racist, bigoted, corrupt, cowardly, wannabe strongman bully.

Well that's the problem with the Primary system isn't it, and then your buddies in the MSM giving Trump all the free airtime because at the time he was the only Republican losing to your gal pal Hillary

No one forced the GOP base to choose him.

As for the media, I think you'll find it was mainly because of ratings. Simple capitalism and advertising dollars.

Trump has a multitude of faults, but he is charismatic as f**k and ratings gold (or at least he used to be). As someone willing to say outrageous stuff, express bigoted views and lie through his teeth (the reason the GOP voters chose him in the first place), he is perfect for the 24/7 sensationalist world of cable news because you'll never run out of things to talk about and whip up your audience.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Trumpers have always been blaming the "liberals" for forcing them to vote for Trump. The "personal responsibility" crowd doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for voting for Trump. "The liburls made us do it!"

Who ever said that?

What SWING VOTERS (who are the ones who decide the election)  will tell you, is that relative to Trump, the Democratic option was an even WORSE option. So go ahead and mangle and twist that into something you feel fits your narrative. No one forced anyone to do anything, but one party (Democrats) had policies that did not align with the beliefs of the people who's votes they needed to win

LOL-do you think that government mandated low income Housing in suburban towns is a winning issue for Democrats?

That gets into the difference between the two parties, doesn't it?

One wants to govern and make society better for all citizens.

The other just wants it to be every man for himself, where only the dollars that can be made are important, and f**k the little people. Which leaves things a little troublesome when actual governing is needed, such as during global pandemics.

Social housing may not be a nice or popular issue. But you can't just wish those problems away.

Same with inconvenient things like environmental issues or infrastructure or human rights.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Trumpers have always been blaming the "liberals" for forcing them to vote for Trump. The "personal responsibility" crowd doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for voting for Trump. "The liburls made us do it!"

Who ever said that?

What SWING VOTERS (who are the ones who decide the election)  will tell you, is that relative to Trump, the Democratic option was an even WORSE option. So go ahead and mangle and twist that into something you feel fits your narrative. No one forced anyone to do anything, but one party (Democrats) had policies that did not align with the beliefs of the people who's votes they needed to win

LOL-do you think that government mandated low income Housing in suburban towns is a winning issue for Democrats?

That gets into the difference between the two parties, doesn't it?

One wants to govern and make society better for all citizens.

The other just wants it to be every man for himself, where only the dollars that can be made are important, and f**k the little people. Which leaves things a little troublesome when actual governing is needed, such as during global pandemics.

Social housing may not be a nice or popular issue. But you can't just wish those problems away.

Same with inconvenient things like environmental issues or infrastructure or human rights.

LOL-My point is, it's not going to happen, so why the fvck make it a campaign issue?

Sure it might energize SOME of the people who were going to vote for you anyway but it comes at the expense of alienating the very people whose votes you actually need to win




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: glens73 on August 17, 2020, 05:27:32 PM
Michael Moore, putting a lot of effort into get Trump out, his latest Facebook post;


MY PLAN FOR HOW TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE AN ELECTION, TRUMP IS REMOVED, AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE GONE FOR GOOD
by Michael Moore

TRUMP HAS DECLARED WAR ON US AND OUR DEMOCRACY.

IT'S TIME FOR US TO PUT OUR LIVES ON THE LINE, IF NECESSARY, AND TO MAKE HIM THE LAST REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT OF OUR UNITED STATES.

Trump, right now, tonight, is up to some very nasty, scary stuff — stuff we can't even imagine — and of course we can't imagine it because we don't think like Trump. Our brains are wired for love, empathy, solidarity, compassion, freedom, person, woman, man, camera, TV.

You know like I know that Trump has a devious, wicked plan to destroy this Election. We need to declare, immediately, that it is he and the Republican Party who have to go, for the sake of this country's existence, they must be crushed and removed.

Trump actually has an arsenal of plans already in action to ensure he never leaves office. He has them all in high gear — some visible, some not. If you could see them all you'd be so stunned, you'd have to immediately convince yourself that there's no way he can pull this off.

We are all caught in Trump's Matrix, a mad web, the work of a psychopath-in-chief with tricks so devious that fascists of old, if alive today, would marvel at what Trump has accomplished.

For the next 11 weeks — and then for the 12 weeks between the Election and the Inauguration — Trump is planning nothing but anarchy, chaos, a call to arms of his angry white male followers and the complete destruction of our democracy. You think I'm kidding? You think I'm overstating the case? Do you want to take the risk that I might not be wrong? Most of you understandably chose not to listen to me four years ago when I warned you Trump was going to win the Presidency by taking Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. May I please ask that you now give me your serious attention for what I am about to say — because if I'm right again this time, there won't be a next time. There will be nothing left for me to warn you about. There probably won't be much left of me.

Here's how Trump plans to end our right to choose the next President and Congress. It will happen fast. I am also laying out here a battle plan for us to defeat this takeover of our democracy. We must act now.

HERE ARE TRUMP'S 5 PLANS ALREADY IN MOTION:

PLAN #1: Create Chaos. Instill Fear. Fire Up the Base with Racist Vigor. Pandemonium Ensues.
CHECK. DONE.

PLAN #2: Suppress the Vote
•Dismantle the Post Office.
•Create 4-Hour-Long Lines by Drastically Reducing Number of Polling Locations.
•Throw Black and Brown Voters Off the Rolls.
•Stop Those Who've Served Time from Voting.
•Place 50,000 "Poll Watchers" at Voting Sites Around the Country to Intimidate Voters.
VOTER SUPPRESSION IN ACTION AS WE SPEAK.

PLAN #3: Postpone the Election. Place the blame on a "legitimate" national tragedy or emergency  — massive deaths from the pandemic, a terrorist attack, an assassination, a deadly hurricane, a civil war in the streets, one or both Presidential candidates falling ill to Covid-19 —  anything that reasonable people, even people who are opposed to Trump, will agree that "we just can't hold an election right now! We just need to postpone it for a couple days, a couple weeks (a couple months... a couple years...)" Or perhaps he'll just cancel the Election outright and see if he can get away with it.
TRUMP READY TO PULL THE TRIGGER.

PLAN #4: His September Surprise.
His October Surprise.
His November Surprise.
His January Surprise.
You think you can guess what it will be, but trust me, it'll be far worse. We need to be ready. Stay on high alert, my friends. Millions of us will need to act on a moment's notice. It's the grim reaper of Democracy at our doorstep. We made the mistake of letting Trump get this far — why wouldn't he now think he can get away with everything??
THE SURPRISE IS UNKNOWN. THAT'S WHY IT'S A SURPRISE.

PLAN #5: He Will Not Leave.
When Trump loses, he will declare the Election invalid, rigged, stolen — and he will refuse to step down.

So, what will we do then?

HERE IS OUR BATTLE PLAN TO REMOVE TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICANS:

1. Do Not Wait — Biden/Harris Should Start Running the Country Now.
We simply don't have time to wait until January 20, 2021. Nearly 200,000 of us have already died from Trump's reckless incompetence with the coronavirus. By Election Day it's possible another 100,000 to 200,000 of us will have needlessly died. A total of 400,000 dead? That's the equivalent of one hundred and thirty-three 9/11s! Or 532 planes being flown into 532 buildings. If something that horrific ever happened, and the President not only didn't do anything about it, but tried to pretend it wasn't all that bad - "it is what it is" - he would be run out of the White House by an angry mob of millions of Americans, lucky not to have his head put on a spike on the Key Bridge over the Potomac.

It doesn't have to come to that. Biden and Harris should present to America a simple nationwide plan to end the pandemic — and then act on it immediately.

They should call a meeting of all the Governors and ask them what help do they need — and then find a way to get them that help, going around Trump and just making it happen. They should ask industry, in lieu of campaign contributions, to produce hundreds of millions of instant-result tests. They should call their Heads of State friends overseas and ask them to send all the PPE they can spare. They should get 250 million Americans to take the "Face Mask Pledge." And they should promise the scientists in our top universities all the money and help they need once they're in office. Ignore Trump. Treat him as if he's irrelevant and get the job done.

2. The Republican Party Must Be Crushed and Destroyed. Trump Must Become the Last Republican President.

   In the Michigan county where I live, the August primary this month set a record turnout for a presidential-year primary. In fact, more people this year voted by mail-in ballot than ALL those who voted in 2016 — by mail-in AND in-person combined. This is a highly encouraging sign for what we now need to do:
   • We must create an historic massive turnout between now and November 3rd — a tsunami of voters the likes of which have never been seen, and may never be seen again. In 2016, 66 million Americans voted for Hillary Clinton. This time, though, we have to WALLOP Trump with an electoral concussion, a blow so profound he won't know what hit him. This must be a defeat so crushing, so humiliating, a whooping of such epic proportions that he will be forced to leave 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue with his tail between his legs on January 20th. This mammoth landslide must not only ensure that no president ever behaves this way again, we need to see to it that Trump is the last Republican president. The Election Day Uprising must put an end to this party of Trump enablers and traitors. They had a choice. They chose Trump over Democracy. They chose Putin and Netanyahu over fair elections and freedom for all. They chose the 1% over the 160 million working Americans. They chose the NRA over the massacred children of Sandy Hook. They chose to rig our elections, our textbooks, our economy. Democrats helped them along the way, and we'll take the stick to them and fix that. The Republicans, though, chose to let hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens perish from Covid-19 because loyalty to Party and to Trump was greater than their duty to the American people. For that alone, the Republican Party must be put out of business for good. Vote out every last one of them. Conservatives will have to form a new party, much like when the Whigs were sent packing in the 1800s. The Republicans must pay for their crimes.

   • We must flip the Senate —- and not just by the three seats we need for control. We should shock the pundit class and, as the Republican Party is reduced to ashes, grab a solid 55+ seat majority. Colorado, Arizona, Maine, North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, Montana and even Kansas, South Carolina and, yes, Texas (a state that is now 57% non-white) — are all possible Democratic Senate wins. Think about spending a weekend or a week helping out in one of these states. The Republicans will wish they had managed this pandemic better and had everyone busy back at work by now. All this "free time" should make for their undoing.

   • Finally, we have to vote the local Republicans out of office, too. State Houses and Senates will be drawing the electoral map for the next ten years. We can't let the cheating Republicans do this again. Do what you can to elect Dems in your state and local elections. The punishment of the Republican Party — a certified terrorist organization for having helped kill at least 200,000 Americans — is an imperative.


3. Who Would Be Willing To, If Need Be, Put Their Life on the Line To Ensure This Election Is Held and EVERYONE Gets to Vote? I Would. Would You?

   These steps must be taken immediately:
     • The Secret Service, the FBI, the Capitol Police and the Joint Chiefs of Staff must be called before Congress and swear under oath that they will guarantee that the election will be held, they will enforce the Constitution they swore to uphold, and if he's defeated but refuses to leave, they will escort the former President of the United States out of the White House.

     • Biden and Harris must put Trump on notice that if he does one more thing to interfere with the Election or issues one more threat to suppress the vote, they will turn him and his crime family over to the new Justice Department for prosecution.

     • Every single one of us must be strong in our publicly-stated resolve that there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON ON EARTH TO POSTPONE OR CANCEL THE ELECTION. That's our unmovable and intractable position. No national tragedy, disease, threat or the melting of all of Greenland will cause us not to vote on or before November 3rd. Even if, God forbid, either candidate passes in their sleep between now and Election Day, the Election will continue — and the winner's VP - or Nancy Pelosi - will become President on Inauguration Day.

     • Let's all pledge that, if Trump tries to cancel the election or if he refuses to accept its results, millions of us will go to DC and encircle the White House, a thousand deep, until he backs down, resigns or is removed.

   • And, if you can, quietly make this commitment to yourself: "There are only a very few things I'd be willing to give my life for. This is one of them." I know. That's dark. And heavy. And awfully sad because it shouldn't have come to this. But if we can't even say that, then what good are we? If we aren't willing to make that sacrifice, then America is already over and we might as well just fold our tent and see if Canada will take the non-racist, non-homophobic, non war-mongering ones of us who have manners and get satire.

4. Become an Election Defender.
   
   Each of you should form an urgent action group - a rapid response team - in your neighborhood or town and do the following:

     • Hold a daily protest at your local post office
     • Picket the home of your local Postmaster (he/she may be on your side, so bring them some baked goods)
     • Chain yourself to a local blue USPS dropbox if you can find one. Or chain it to something that won't move.
     • Sign up with the city clerk to be a poll worker on Election Day - especially if you're young. Because of the pandemic, polls will be very short of poll workers. If you're told they have enough help, then call the local Democratic Party and offer to be a "poll watcher", the group of people from each party who get to oversee the voting to make sure there are no irregularities.
     • Demand your city create more voting locations. Convince owners of arenas, theaters, ball parks, malls - places with large open spaces - to offer their facilities as polling places so that everyone gets a chance to vote.
     • Canvas your neighborhoods over the next month to get people to fill out the form you'll have them sign to get a mail-in ballot — and if they want to vote in person, let them know when the first day is so they can do that. Make a list of who needs a Covid-safe ride. The earlier the better!


5. The Uprising We're In Is Only Getting Bigger. The People Will Now Call the Shots.
   
   Why wait for the politicians to fix the mess of a country we're in when they helped orchestrate the mess in the first place? Why don't we just declare how we want to live — a new way to govern and function as a country — and we will finally fulfill the promise of the American Dream that has never been realized. Life, liberty, true equality, a sharing of the wealth, being good citizens of this world and kind stewards of a fragile Earth.

What have we learned from this pandemic? What we already knew: That employer-based health insurance can evaporate in an instant. Health care is a human right.

That being told "we can't afford that!" (free college, free child care, free medical care - the things most advanced nations have) is total BS — the government CAN afford anything we decide we need!

We've learned that teachers, nurses, the mailwoman, farm workers, mass transit drivers and the minimum wage workers stocking the grocery shelves at 3 in the morning are our most important citizens and they need the respect and income they deserve immediately.  74% of the country now believes a guaranteed annual income is a great idea — fifty percentage points higher than when Andrew Yang proposed it 7 months ago!

We've learned to slow down, consume less  — and that is what may be the path to saving the planet (when the 4% of its inhabitants [US] is no longer sucking up 25% of its resources and hoarding more than half its wealth).

We're about to go elect more women than ever before — a time to turn the reins over to the gender that stands a better chance of getting us through the deadly viruses of Covid, Capitalism and Republicans(R.I.P.).

None of this will be launched by politicians. It will only come about through you and me taking action as part of the largest protest movement in our history — still growing, still going strong! — to end the racism, the abuse of the police state, the disgusting income inequality and the hateful misogyny that is going to come to an end in our lifetime.

America, post-pandemic, must become a very different place. Let's make this happen. Doing the above will be the best cure for the trauma of these past four years.

Commit to being the change.
Organize your friends and family today.
Make your plan to campaign in a swing state Sept. or Oct.
VOTE AS EARLY AS YOU CAN—and take 5 people along with you!

We can do this. Trump - we're coming for you. I'll be in the first U-Haul truck that pulls up to your door.
the thing is the Democrats still haven't excepted the 2016 election results and they've been protesting sometimes violently since . The prime minister of nz said she is putting back the election a month because of a handful of covid cases with no blowback but when trump suggested something similar the narrative from the media is he's a dictator that won't leave  office , what evidence is there of that . The 2020 election and the aftermath if trump wins  is going  to be a dangerous time for this country because the Democrats are not going to except another loss and are willing to do anything to get power , if he wins all hell will break loose and they want the public to know this in advance , the message is you bite him in we will burn it all down .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:52:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Trumpers have always been blaming the "liberals" for forcing them to vote for Trump. The "personal responsibility" crowd doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for voting for Trump. "The liburls made us do it!"

Who ever said that?

What SWING VOTERS (who are the ones who decide the election)  will tell you, is that relative to Trump, the Democratic option was an even WORSE option. So go ahead and mangle and twist that into something you feel fits your narrative. No one forced anyone to do anything, but one party (Democrats) had policies that did not align with the beliefs of the people who's votes they needed to win

LOL-do you think that government mandated low income Housing in suburban towns is a winning issue for Democrats?

That gets into the difference between the two parties, doesn't it?

One wants to govern and make society better for all citizens.

The other just wants it to be every man for himself, where only the dollars that can be made are important, and f**k the little people. Which leaves things a little troublesome when actual governing is needed, such as during global pandemics.

Social housing may not be a nice or popular issue. But you can't just wish those problems away.

Same with inconvenient things like environmental issues or infrastructure or human rights.

LOL-My point is, it's not going to happen, so why the fvck make it a campaign issue?

Sure it might energize SOME of the people who were going to vote for you anyway but it comes at the expense of alienating the very people whose votes you actually need to win

Ok, fair enough.

But wasn't it Trump who introduced that issue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:55:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: glens73 on August 17, 2020, 05:27:32 PM
Michael Moore, putting a lot of effort into get Trump out, his latest Facebook post;


MY PLAN FOR HOW TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE AN ELECTION, TRUMP IS REMOVED, AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE GONE FOR GOOD
by Michael Moore

TRUMP HAS DECLARED WAR ON US AND OUR DEMOCRACY.

IT'S TIME FOR US TO PUT OUR LIVES ON THE LINE, IF NECESSARY, AND TO MAKE HIM THE LAST REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT OF OUR UNITED STATES.

Trump, right now, tonight, is up to some very nasty, scary stuff — stuff we can't even imagine — and of course we can't imagine it because we don't think like Trump. Our brains are wired for love, empathy, solidarity, compassion, freedom, person, woman, man, camera, TV.

You know like I know that Trump has a devious, wicked plan to destroy this Election. We need to declare, immediately, that it is he and the Republican Party who have to go, for the sake of this country's existence, they must be crushed and removed.

Trump actually has an arsenal of plans already in action to ensure he never leaves office. He has them all in high gear — some visible, some not. If you could see them all you'd be so stunned, you'd have to immediately convince yourself that there's no way he can pull this off.

We are all caught in Trump's Matrix, a mad web, the work of a psychopath-in-chief with tricks so devious that fascists of old, if alive today, would marvel at what Trump has accomplished.

For the next 11 weeks — and then for the 12 weeks between the Election and the Inauguration — Trump is planning nothing but anarchy, chaos, a call to arms of his angry white male followers and the complete destruction of our democracy. You think I'm kidding? You think I'm overstating the case? Do you want to take the risk that I might not be wrong? Most of you understandably chose not to listen to me four years ago when I warned you Trump was going to win the Presidency by taking Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. May I please ask that you now give me your serious attention for what I am about to say — because if I'm right again this time, there won't be a next time. There will be nothing left for me to warn you about. There probably won't be much left of me.

Here's how Trump plans to end our right to choose the next President and Congress. It will happen fast. I am also laying out here a battle plan for us to defeat this takeover of our democracy. We must act now.

HERE ARE TRUMP'S 5 PLANS ALREADY IN MOTION:

PLAN #1: Create Chaos. Instill Fear. Fire Up the Base with Racist Vigor. Pandemonium Ensues.
CHECK. DONE.

PLAN #2: Suppress the Vote
•Dismantle the Post Office.
•Create 4-Hour-Long Lines by Drastically Reducing Number of Polling Locations.
•Throw Black and Brown Voters Off the Rolls.
•Stop Those Who've Served Time from Voting.
•Place 50,000 "Poll Watchers" at Voting Sites Around the Country to Intimidate Voters.
VOTER SUPPRESSION IN ACTION AS WE SPEAK.

PLAN #3: Postpone the Election. Place the blame on a "legitimate" national tragedy or emergency  — massive deaths from the pandemic, a terrorist attack, an assassination, a deadly hurricane, a civil war in the streets, one or both Presidential candidates falling ill to Covid-19 —  anything that reasonable people, even people who are opposed to Trump, will agree that "we just can't hold an election right now! We just need to postpone it for a couple days, a couple weeks (a couple months... a couple years...)" Or perhaps he'll just cancel the Election outright and see if he can get away with it.
TRUMP READY TO PULL THE TRIGGER.

PLAN #4: His September Surprise.
His October Surprise.
His November Surprise.
His January Surprise.
You think you can guess what it will be, but trust me, it'll be far worse. We need to be ready. Stay on high alert, my friends. Millions of us will need to act on a moment's notice. It's the grim reaper of Democracy at our doorstep. We made the mistake of letting Trump get this far — why wouldn't he now think he can get away with everything??
THE SURPRISE IS UNKNOWN. THAT'S WHY IT'S A SURPRISE.

PLAN #5: He Will Not Leave.
When Trump loses, he will declare the Election invalid, rigged, stolen — and he will refuse to step down.

So, what will we do then?

HERE IS OUR BATTLE PLAN TO REMOVE TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICANS:

1. Do Not Wait — Biden/Harris Should Start Running the Country Now.
We simply don't have time to wait until January 20, 2021. Nearly 200,000 of us have already died from Trump's reckless incompetence with the coronavirus. By Election Day it's possible another 100,000 to 200,000 of us will have needlessly died. A total of 400,000 dead? That's the equivalent of one hundred and thirty-three 9/11s! Or 532 planes being flown into 532 buildings. If something that horrific ever happened, and the President not only didn't do anything about it, but tried to pretend it wasn't all that bad - "it is what it is" - he would be run out of the White House by an angry mob of millions of Americans, lucky not to have his head put on a spike on the Key Bridge over the Potomac.

It doesn't have to come to that. Biden and Harris should present to America a simple nationwide plan to end the pandemic — and then act on it immediately.

They should call a meeting of all the Governors and ask them what help do they need — and then find a way to get them that help, going around Trump and just making it happen. They should ask industry, in lieu of campaign contributions, to produce hundreds of millions of instant-result tests. They should call their Heads of State friends overseas and ask them to send all the PPE they can spare. They should get 250 million Americans to take the "Face Mask Pledge." And they should promise the scientists in our top universities all the money and help they need once they're in office. Ignore Trump. Treat him as if he's irrelevant and get the job done.

2. The Republican Party Must Be Crushed and Destroyed. Trump Must Become the Last Republican President.

   In the Michigan county where I live, the August primary this month set a record turnout for a presidential-year primary. In fact, more people this year voted by mail-in ballot than ALL those who voted in 2016 — by mail-in AND in-person combined. This is a highly encouraging sign for what we now need to do:
   • We must create an historic massive turnout between now and November 3rd — a tsunami of voters the likes of which have never been seen, and may never be seen again. In 2016, 66 million Americans voted for Hillary Clinton. This time, though, we have to WALLOP Trump with an electoral concussion, a blow so profound he won't know what hit him. This must be a defeat so crushing, so humiliating, a whooping of such epic proportions that he will be forced to leave 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue with his tail between his legs on January 20th. This mammoth landslide must not only ensure that no president ever behaves this way again, we need to see to it that Trump is the last Republican president. The Election Day Uprising must put an end to this party of Trump enablers and traitors. They had a choice. They chose Trump over Democracy. They chose Putin and Netanyahu over fair elections and freedom for all. They chose the 1% over the 160 million working Americans. They chose the NRA over the massacred children of Sandy Hook. They chose to rig our elections, our textbooks, our economy. Democrats helped them along the way, and we'll take the stick to them and fix that. The Republicans, though, chose to let hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens perish from Covid-19 because loyalty to Party and to Trump was greater than their duty to the American people. For that alone, the Republican Party must be put out of business for good. Vote out every last one of them. Conservatives will have to form a new party, much like when the Whigs were sent packing in the 1800s. The Republicans must pay for their crimes.

   • We must flip the Senate —- and not just by the three seats we need for control. We should shock the pundit class and, as the Republican Party is reduced to ashes, grab a solid 55+ seat majority. Colorado, Arizona, Maine, North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, Montana and even Kansas, South Carolina and, yes, Texas (a state that is now 57% non-white) — are all possible Democratic Senate wins. Think about spending a weekend or a week helping out in one of these states. The Republicans will wish they had managed this pandemic better and had everyone busy back at work by now. All this "free time" should make for their undoing.

   • Finally, we have to vote the local Republicans out of office, too. State Houses and Senates will be drawing the electoral map for the next ten years. We can't let the cheating Republicans do this again. Do what you can to elect Dems in your state and local elections. The punishment of the Republican Party — a certified terrorist organization for having helped kill at least 200,000 Americans — is an imperative.


3. Who Would Be Willing To, If Need Be, Put Their Life on the Line To Ensure This Election Is Held and EVERYONE Gets to Vote? I Would. Would You?

   These steps must be taken immediately:
     • The Secret Service, the FBI, the Capitol Police and the Joint Chiefs of Staff must be called before Congress and swear under oath that they will guarantee that the election will be held, they will enforce the Constitution they swore to uphold, and if he's defeated but refuses to leave, they will escort the former President of the United States out of the White House.

     • Biden and Harris must put Trump on notice that if he does one more thing to interfere with the Election or issues one more threat to suppress the vote, they will turn him and his crime family over to the new Justice Department for prosecution.

     • Every single one of us must be strong in our publicly-stated resolve that there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON ON EARTH TO POSTPONE OR CANCEL THE ELECTION. That's our unmovable and intractable position. No national tragedy, disease, threat or the melting of all of Greenland will cause us not to vote on or before November 3rd. Even if, God forbid, either candidate passes in their sleep between now and Election Day, the Election will continue — and the winner's VP - or Nancy Pelosi - will become President on Inauguration Day.

     • Let's all pledge that, if Trump tries to cancel the election or if he refuses to accept its results, millions of us will go to DC and encircle the White House, a thousand deep, until he backs down, resigns or is removed.

   • And, if you can, quietly make this commitment to yourself: "There are only a very few things I'd be willing to give my life for. This is one of them." I know. That's dark. And heavy. And awfully sad because it shouldn't have come to this. But if we can't even say that, then what good are we? If we aren't willing to make that sacrifice, then America is already over and we might as well just fold our tent and see if Canada will take the non-racist, non-homophobic, non war-mongering ones of us who have manners and get satire.

4. Become an Election Defender.
   
   Each of you should form an urgent action group - a rapid response team - in your neighborhood or town and do the following:

     • Hold a daily protest at your local post office
     • Picket the home of your local Postmaster (he/she may be on your side, so bring them some baked goods)
     • Chain yourself to a local blue USPS dropbox if you can find one. Or chain it to something that won't move.
     • Sign up with the city clerk to be a poll worker on Election Day - especially if you're young. Because of the pandemic, polls will be very short of poll workers. If you're told they have enough help, then call the local Democratic Party and offer to be a "poll watcher", the group of people from each party who get to oversee the voting to make sure there are no irregularities.
     • Demand your city create more voting locations. Convince owners of arenas, theaters, ball parks, malls - places with large open spaces - to offer their facilities as polling places so that everyone gets a chance to vote.
     • Canvas your neighborhoods over the next month to get people to fill out the form you'll have them sign to get a mail-in ballot — and if they want to vote in person, let them know when the first day is so they can do that. Make a list of who needs a Covid-safe ride. The earlier the better!


5. The Uprising We're In Is Only Getting Bigger. The People Will Now Call the Shots.
   
   Why wait for the politicians to fix the mess of a country we're in when they helped orchestrate the mess in the first place? Why don't we just declare how we want to live — a new way to govern and function as a country — and we will finally fulfill the promise of the American Dream that has never been realized. Life, liberty, true equality, a sharing of the wealth, being good citizens of this world and kind stewards of a fragile Earth.

What have we learned from this pandemic? What we already knew: That employer-based health insurance can evaporate in an instant. Health care is a human right.

That being told "we can't afford that!" (free college, free child care, free medical care - the things most advanced nations have) is total BS — the government CAN afford anything we decide we need!

We've learned that teachers, nurses, the mailwoman, farm workers, mass transit drivers and the minimum wage workers stocking the grocery shelves at 3 in the morning are our most important citizens and they need the respect and income they deserve immediately.  74% of the country now believes a guaranteed annual income is a great idea — fifty percentage points higher than when Andrew Yang proposed it 7 months ago!

We've learned to slow down, consume less  — and that is what may be the path to saving the planet (when the 4% of its inhabitants [US] is no longer sucking up 25% of its resources and hoarding more than half its wealth).

We're about to go elect more women than ever before — a time to turn the reins over to the gender that stands a better chance of getting us through the deadly viruses of Covid, Capitalism and Republicans(R.I.P.).

None of this will be launched by politicians. It will only come about through you and me taking action as part of the largest protest movement in our history — still growing, still going strong! — to end the racism, the abuse of the police state, the disgusting income inequality and the hateful misogyny that is going to come to an end in our lifetime.

America, post-pandemic, must become a very different place. Let's make this happen. Doing the above will be the best cure for the trauma of these past four years.

Commit to being the change.
Organize your friends and family today.
Make your plan to campaign in a swing state Sept. or Oct.
VOTE AS EARLY AS YOU CAN—and take 5 people along with you!

We can do this. Trump - we're coming for you. I'll be in the first U-Haul truck that pulls up to your door.
the thing is the Democrats still haven't excepted the 2016 election results and they've been protesting sometimes violently since . The prime minister of nz said she is putting back the election a month because of a handful of covid cases with no blowback but when trump suggested something similar the narrative from the media is he's a dictator that won't leave  office , what evidence is there of that . The 2020 election and the aftermath if trump wins  is going  to be a dangerous time for this country because the Democrats are not going to except another loss and are willing to do anything to get power , if he wins all hell will break loose and they want the public to know this in advance , the message is you bite him in we will burn it all down .

Perhaps the small fact that the prime minister of NZ hasn't been exhibiting autocratic tendencies or hinting that she wouldn't accept a losing result or hyping up the "threat" of voter fraud and trying to sabotage the post office and so on and on is relevant?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:59:33 PM
Here's one of the "good guys" Sid (or maybe it was Eamonn) was praising to the hilt a few weeks ago

https://t.co/JuBmSShAyC
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 07:19:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.

After what's gone on in the big cities these past couple of months, I think this is a big net positive for Trump.

People can be outraged all they want at how he messages it, but the reality is that very few towns embrace this type of federally mandated development and that includes wealthy Democratic towns
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 07:36:55 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117952233_2663683533948007_7027730626218563390_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=yrbmBHsEjOoAX-10qvK&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=a50d3bbf5299da5fb8a6fb54dae9c645&oe=5F5F801F)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:38:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 07:19:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.

After what's gone on in the big cities these past couple of months, I think this is a big net positive for Trump.

People can be outraged all they want at how he messages it, but the reality is that very few towns embrace this type of federally mandated development and that includes wealthy Democratic towns

Its the same old appeal to white resentment that Trump and the GOP specialize in.

Just because there might still a few electoral kicks left in it doesn't make it right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
the thing is the Democrats still haven't excepted (sic) the 2016 election results and they've been protesting sometimes violently since .

Take it up with the electoral college. When you undermine the legitimacy of the ballot box with a hare-brained affirmative action program for rednecks, people are going to have a hard time accepting the legitimacy of who seizes power after losing the vote by 3.5 million.

QuoteThe prime minister of nz said she is putting back the election a month because of a handful of covid cases with no blowback

The opposition in NZ wanted it delayed until even later, in November.

Quotebut when trump suggested something similar the narrative from the media is he's a dictator that won't leave  office , what evidence is there of that .

His own words when questioned about it by Fox News' Chris Wallace:

"I have to see. No, I'm not going to just say yes. I'm not going to say no, and I didn't last time either."

When did you last see a sitting US president even hint that they're not going to accept an election result?

QuoteThe 2020 election and the aftermath if trump wins  is going  to be a dangerous time for this country because the Democrats are not going to except (sic) another loss and are willing to do anything to get power , if he wins all hell will break loose and they want the public to know this in advance , the message is you bite him in we will burn it all down .

LOL! Trump is openly sabotaging the post office, openly saying it's to undermine postal voting, and you're bleating about the Democrats "doing anything to get in power?" Orwell has taught you well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2020, 08:25:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:38:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 07:19:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.

After what's gone on in the big cities these past couple of months, I think this is a big net positive for Trump.

People can be outraged all they want at how he messages it, but the reality is that very few towns embrace this type of federally mandated development and that includes wealthy Democratic towns

Its the same old appeal to white resentment that Trump and the GOP specialize in.

Just because there might still a few electoral kicks left in it doesn't make it right.

Resentment????

Don't think it has much to with resentment and more to do with Nimbyism and Liberals are as bad if not worse than Republicans in that score
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
the thing is the Democrats still haven't excepted (sic) the 2016 election results and they've been protesting sometimes violently since .

Take it up with the electoral college. When you undermine the legitimacy of the ballot box with a hare-brained affirmative action program for rednecks, people are going to have a hard time accepting the legitimacy of who seizes power after losing the vote by 3.5 million.

QuoteThe prime minister of nz said she is putting back the election a month because of a handful of covid cases with no blowback

The opposition in NZ wanted it delayed until even later, in November.

Quotebut when trump suggested something similar the narrative from the media is he's a dictator that won't leave  office , what evidence is there of that .

His own words when questioned about it by Fox News' Chris Wallace:

"I have to see. No, I'm not going to just say yes. I'm not going to say no, and I didn't last time either."

When did you last see a sitting US president even hint that they're not going to accept an election result?

QuoteThe 2020 election and the aftermath if trump wins  is going  to be a dangerous time for this country because the Democrats are not going to except (sic) another loss and are willing to do anything to get power , if he wins all hell will break loose and they want the public to know this in advance , the message is you bite him in we will burn it all down .

LOL! Trump is openly sabotaging the post office, openly saying it's to undermine postal voting, and you're bleating about the Democrats "doing anything to get in power?" Orwell has taught you well.
trump and his minions kidnapping mailboxes eh , I have 5 out the back of my house .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 09:05:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
the thing is the Democrats still haven't excepted (sic) the 2016 election results and they've been protesting sometimes violently since .

Take it up with the electoral college. When you undermine the legitimacy of the ballot box with a hare-brained affirmative action program for rednecks, people are going to have a hard time accepting the legitimacy of who seizes power after losing the vote by 3.5 million.

QuoteThe prime minister of nz said she is putting back the election a month because of a handful of covid cases with no blowback

The opposition in NZ wanted it delayed until even later, in November.

Quotebut when trump suggested something similar the narrative from the media is he's a dictator that won't leave  office , what evidence is there of that .

His own words when questioned about it by Fox News' Chris Wallace:

"I have to see. No, I'm not going to just say yes. I'm not going to say no, and I didn't last time either."

When did you last see a sitting US president even hint that they're not going to accept an election result?

QuoteThe 2020 election and the aftermath if trump wins  is going  to be a dangerous time for this country because the Democrats are not going to except (sic) another loss and are willing to do anything to get power , if he wins all hell will break loose and they want the public to know this in advance , the message is you bite him in we will burn it all down .

LOL! Trump is openly sabotaging the post office, openly saying it's to undermine postal voting, and you're bleating about the Democrats "doing anything to get in power?" Orwell has taught you well.
trump and his minions kidnapping mailboxes eh , I have 5 out the back of my house .

Well if everything's okay in your backyard then that must mean there's nothing fishy going on with the postal service anywhere.

No wonder conservatives haven't a clue about what's going on outside of their own little worlds. The concept of there being something different going on somewhere else is just too much for their conservative brains to handle.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 09:33:29 PM
QuoteBefore the election, Donald Trump squeezes the postal service (https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/08/16/before-the-election-donald-trump-squeezes-the-postal-service)
Deprived of funds, it will struggle to handle mail-in voting

DONALD TRUMP has long held the United States Postal Service (USPS) in contempt. In April he called it "a joke," and contended it was losing money delivering packages for Amazon. That is untrue, but it provided a plausible explanation for his loathing. He wanted the USPS to quadruple its package-handling rates because he thought it would harm Amazon, whose owner, Jeff Bezos, also owns the Washington Post, which covers the president accurately and unflatteringly.

In May Mr Trump installed a new postmaster-general, Louis DeJoy. Unlike many of his predecessors, Mr DeJoy has never worked for the USPS: he ran a logistics company in which he still holds shares, which some argue creates a conflict of interest. He has been a generous donor to Republicans and Mr Trump. He implemented operational changes that led to mail slowdowns. When some on the left began musing that these changes were intended to hinder voting by mail, they were dismissed as conspiracy theorists. On August 13th, however, Mr Trump all but admitted their suspicions. He opposes funding the USPS, he said, because "if they don't get [the money], that means you can't have universal mail-in voting because they're not equipped to have it."


The USPS is rapidly losing money: $4.5bn from January to March, more than double its losses for the same period last year. Its financial woes have three main causes—one acute and two chronic. The acute problem is covid-19. At least 2,400 postal workers have caught the virus; at least 60 have died; more than 17,000 of its 630,000 employees have been quarantined; and it has had to buy personal protective equipment (PPE) for its workers. Though package volume and revenue have grown during the pandemic, along with Americans' online shopping, marketing and first-class mail have both declined (one-time census mailing staved off a revenue decline in first-class mail, but volume fell).

The decline in first-class mail—the USPS's most profitable offering—is also a chronic problem: in the digital age, people are sending fewer letters, birthday cards and postcards. Compounding that problem is the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA), a law passed with bipartisan support in 2006 that requires USPS to prepay a large share of future retirees' health benefits—a burden imposed on no other federal agency. Some on the left want Congress to repeal PAEA. That looks unlikely, both because Republicans would not support it, and because it would leave the USPS with sizeable unfunded obligations.

On current trends, in the absence of relief or reform, the USPS estimates that it could run out of money sometime between April and October 2021. House Democrats included money for the USPS in their version of the CARES Act, a covid-relief bill enacted in March, but after Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, said Mr Trump would veto any legislation that included USPS funding, it was cut out of the final bill. The only relief the USPS has so far received is a $10bn line of credit from the Treasury.

Ostensibly to save money, Mr DeJoy implemented operational changes last month. Instead of setting as a paramount goal delivering to customers all mail received by a post office on a given morning, the new rules forbid carriers from leaving late or making extra trips back to the station, as often happens if more mail arrives than a single truck can hold. Lori Cash, a postal worker in Orchard Park, New York, explains that carriers at her post office have to leave at 9am, and any mail not on their trucks by then does not get delivered that day. As a result, she says some customers have seen their mail delayed by two days. For a magazine or advertisement, that delay may be trivial; for prescriptions, however, or payments to a small business, it could prove far more serious. It could also be the difference between a mailed ballot being counted or discarded.

More worryingly, reports have come from across America of sorting machines being removed from mail-processing plants and mailboxes being unbolted and removed. The slowdown in sorting capacity because of machine removal appears particularly acute in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and Texas—all battleground states. The USPS sent letters in July warning 46 states that it cannot guarantee that all ballots mailed on time will be delivered in time to be counted. Barack Obama said that Mr Trump is trying to "actively kneecap the postal service" and that Republicans are "so scared of people voting that [they] are now willing to undermine what is part of the basic infrastructure of American life."

Setting aside the moral questions concerning a strategy to starve the USPS in order to hinder Americans' ability to vote during a pandemic, politically it carries real risks. A Pew Research Centre survey taken earlier this year showed that 91% of Democrats and Republicans viewed the USPS favourably. The service is particularly important in rural America: unlike private carriers, it is legally required to deliver mail to all addresses, and many people in sparsely populated areas have no other way to vote or get their prescriptions. Even ordinarily unwavering Trump supporters such as Steve Daines, a Republican from Montana, have begun worrying in public.

The House Oversight Committee, which has jurisdiction over the USPS, summoned Mr DeJoy to testify at an emergency hearing on August 24th. Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, said she will call the House back from recess this week to vote on legislation that would bar USPS from implementing any operational or service changes until at least January 1st 2021. Jim Cooper, among the most mild-mannered, centrist Democrats in the House, tweeted that his chamber must "subpoena the Postmaster General, and if he fails to appear, we should send the Sgt at Arms to arrest him." The administration appears to be softening its stand. Mark Meadows, Mr Trump's chief of staff, announced a halt to sorting-machine removals, while the USPS said it would halt mailbox removals until after the election. On August 16th, Mr Meadows also expressed openness to funding the USPS.

Mr DeJoy, whose office declined The Economist's interview request and who Congressional Democrats say has not been available to them, released a statement averring that the USPS must "redouble our efforts to focus on our plans to improve operational efficiency and to further control overtime expenditures." Labour accounts for most of USPS's costs; finding efficiencies and reining in overtime may well save the service money.

Even so, many question why Mr DeJoy opted to implement those changes just months before a presidential election that will be unusually reliant on mailed ballots. Mr Trump has repeatedly warned that voting by mail risks widespread fraud, which—given the infinitesimally low rates of fraudulent mailed ballots—seems less a genuine concern than an effort to sow doubt about an election that he may lose. Gerry Connolly, a Democrat from northern Virginia who chairs the subcommittee that oversees USPS, calls Mr DeJoy's rationale "a smokescreen...Under the guise of 'We can't afford it and we're making efficiencies', it's directly affecting the delivery of mail on the eve of an election."

Editor's note: This is an updated version of an article that first appeared on August 8th in the United States section of the print edition under the headline "Law of the letter"

But what would The Economist know? All we need to do is count the number of mailboxes outside Gmac's house.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2020, 09:52:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 08:25:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:38:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 07:19:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.

After what's gone on in the big cities these past couple of months, I think this is a big net positive for Trump.

People can be outraged all they want at how he messages it, but the reality is that very few towns embrace this type of federally mandated development and that includes wealthy Democratic towns

Its the same old appeal to white resentment that Trump and the GOP specialize in.

Just because there might still a few electoral kicks left in it doesn't make it right.

Resentment????

Don't think it has much to with resentment and more to do with Nimbyism and Liberals are as bad if not worse than Republicans in that score

"Watch out suburban housewives - social housing i.e. black and brown people and crime, are coming your way under Biden".

It's straight out of the white resentment playbook.

That it might also rile up a few liberal NIMBYs to vote for him doesn't change that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 11:23:39 PM
The state of modern political discourse in the US:

Democrats: We think Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Trump: I'm destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Conservatives: The libs have gone crazy and believe that Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Gmac: I can see 4 mailboxes from my house, therefore there's no evidence that Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 12:25:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 11:23:39 PM
The state of modern political discourse in the US:

Democrats: We think Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Trump: I'm destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Conservatives: The libs have gone crazy and believe that Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Gmac: I can see 4 mailboxes from my house, therefore there's no evidence that Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election
GMac supports fascism so he would say that, wouldn't he - gaslighting is an essential part of fascism

Clued in observers have been saying since March that Trump would destroy the postal service as a central plank of a wide ranging strategy to rig the election

Dems have been totally impotent in the face of it as they have been since day 1 of taking the house

"We'll impeach him at the ballot box", said Pelosi

You don't vote out a fascist because the fascist makes sure he "wins" by any means necessary, and all means are currently necessary for Trump

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 01:17:35 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 12:25:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 11:23:39 PM
The state of modern political discourse in the US:

Democrats: We think Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Trump: I'm destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Conservatives: The libs have gone crazy and believe that Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Gmac: I can see 4 mailboxes from my house, therefore there's no evidence that Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election
GMac supports fascism so he would say that, wouldn't he - gaslighting is an essential part of fascism

Clued in observers have been saying since March that Trump would destroy the postal service as a central plank of a wide ranging strategy to rig the election

Dems have been totally impotent in the face of it as they have been since day 1 of taking the house

"We'll impeach him at the ballot box", said Pelosi

You don't vote out a fascist because the fascist makes sure he "wins" by any means necessary, and all means are currently necessary for Trump

So I took a trip to town-hall today because I'm thinking of pulling a Democratic ballot for the primary on September 1st (Markey/Kennedy)

My options are as follows:

(1) Request a mail in Ballot

(2) Vote during EARLY VOTING-

Saturday 22nd (12-4)
Sunday 23rd (12-4)

ALL DAY

Monday 24th
Tuesday 25th
Wednesday 26th
Thursday 27th
Friday 28th

(3) Or I can vote in person on September 1st

Thank you and good night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 01:30:23 AM
Sid-here a a few more of your "good guys"

There are 3 or 4 videos leading up to this and the guy absolutely did not try to run anyone over

https://t.co/jjnt5dUeb8

***WARNING*** very graphic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 01:47:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 16, 2020, 11:18:45 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 16, 2020, 01:26:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Biden campaign refusing to go on any of the Sunday morning news shows , I wonder why

Because he is winning 🙄

Exactly....all he needs to do is run down the clock

Nothing to be gained by going on TV, although this tactic may not sit well with some of the people whose vote he needs to win.
correction here he did a hard hitting interview with confessed ho and hold up merchant Cardi b .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:10:10 AM
Trump on his late brother:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfoTGrdWkAwk17m.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:15:54 AM
Speaking of "ho's," you can find nude pictures of Melania Trump online but not Kamala Harris. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM
Bernie Sanders takes the stage tonight as part of a wide diverse swath of progressive and moderate Dems - with Jon Kasich as well - kicking off this historically unique Dem national convention.

And headlining the right...

(https://external-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCYkW42ZF_TJOTY&w=540&h=282&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com%2Fkmov.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2Fb%2Fc6%2Fbc642502-a9cf-5e29-8369-cc38904fc889%2F5f1661647d14d.image.jpg%3Fresize%3D1120%252C630&cfs=1&upscale=1&fallback=news_d_placeholder_publisher&_nc_hash=AQD3PHtoJju4KTsr)

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 02:34:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM
Bernie Sanders takes the stage tonight as part of a wide diverse swath of progressive and moderate Dems - with Jon Kasich as well - kicking off this historically unique Dem national convention.

And headlining the right...

(https://external-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCYkW42ZF_TJOTY&w=540&h=282&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com%2Fkmov.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2Fb%2Fc6%2Fbc642502-a9cf-5e29-8369-cc38904fc889%2F5f1661647d14d.image.jpg%3Fresize%3D1120%252C630&cfs=1&upscale=1&fallback=news_d_placeholder_publisher&_nc_hash=AQD3PHtoJju4KTsr)

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
eva Longoria kicked it off from her $15m dollar mansion with a wall around it and armed security, is she talking border security?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 04:38:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 02:34:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM
Bernie Sanders takes the stage tonight as part of a wide diverse swath of progressive and moderate Dems - with Jon Kasich as well - kicking off this historically unique Dem national convention.

And headlining the right...

(https://external-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCYkW42ZF_TJOTY&w=540&h=282&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com%2Fkmov.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2Fb%2Fc6%2Fbc642502-a9cf-5e29-8369-cc38904fc889%2F5f1661647d14d.image.jpg%3Fresize%3D1120%252C630&cfs=1&upscale=1&fallback=news_d_placeholder_publisher&_nc_hash=AQD3PHtoJju4KTsr)

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
eva Longoria kicked it off from her $15m dollar mansion with a wall around it and armed security, is she talking border security?

Peter Falk died in 2011. Was he talking about international trade?

(I assume the game we're playing is called "insert-a-completely-random-non-sequitur-about-a-completely-random-person-that-has-no-bearing-whatsoever-on-what-is-being-discussed.")
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
"Law and order" as used in American politics has always been a white supremacist dog whistle

It means "keep the blacks down"

It is designed to portray blackness as synonomous with criminality and criminality as synonymous with blackness

One particular poster here is obsessed with doing just that

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
"Law and order" as used in American politics has always been a white supremacist dog whistle

It means "keep the blacks down"

It is designed to portray blackness as synonomous with criminality and criminality as synonymous with blackness

One particular poster here is obsessed with doing just that

How are your buddies, the "good guys"  from Antifa doing this weather? (99% of whom are white)

Have they kicked anyone unconscious recently?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on August 18, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
From the way you phrase it, the obvious have.  Any link?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2020, 12:40:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:10:10 AM
Trump on his late brother:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfoTGrdWkAwk17m.jpg)

His brother just died.

But Trump reduces him down to his loyalty and servility towards Trump.

Oh, and apparently a lot of people have forgotten that the coronavirus originated in China.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2020, 12:42:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM
Bernie Sanders takes the stage tonight as part of a wide diverse swath of progressive and moderate Dems - with Jon Kasich as well - kicking off this historically unique Dem national convention.

And headlining the right...

(https://external-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCYkW42ZF_TJOTY&w=540&h=282&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com%2Fkmov.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2Fb%2Fc6%2Fbc642502-a9cf-5e29-8369-cc38904fc889%2F5f1661647d14d.image.jpg%3Fresize%3D1120%252C630&cfs=1&upscale=1&fallback=news_d_placeholder_publisher&_nc_hash=AQD3PHtoJju4KTsr)

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.

White resentment. Fear of the "other".

Then it all makes sense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
"Law and order" as used in American politics has always been a white supremacist dog whistle

It means "keep the blacks down"

It is designed to portray blackness as synonomous with criminality and criminality as synonymous with blackness

One particular poster here is obsessed with doing just that

How are your buddies, the "good guys"  from Antifa doing this weather? (99% of whom are white)

Have they kicked anyone unconscious recently?
There's no such organisation as antifa

Antifa stands for anti-fascist

Anti-fascism is now a terrorist offence according to Trump

Funny how you support anti-fascism being made a terrorist offence, isn't it

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
"Law and order" as used in American politics has always been a white supremacist dog whistle

It means "keep the blacks down"

It is designed to portray blackness as synonomous with criminality and criminality as synonymous with blackness

One particular poster here is obsessed with doing just that

How are your buddies, the "good guys"  from Antifa doing this weather? (99% of whom are white)

Have they kicked anyone unconscious recently?
There's no such organisation as antifa

Antifa stands for anti-fascist

Anti-fascism is now a terrorist offence according to Trump

Funny how you support anti-fascism being made a terrorist offence, isn't it

Antifa are Anarchists and domestic terrorists

He is 100% correct

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
"Law and order" as used in American politics has always been a white supremacist dog whistle

It means "keep the blacks down"

It is designed to portray blackness as synonomous with criminality and criminality as synonymous with blackness

One particular poster here is obsessed with doing just that

How are your buddies, the "good guys"  from Antifa doing this weather? (99% of whom are white)

Have they kicked anyone unconscious recently?
There's no such organisation as antifa

Antifa stands for anti-fascist

Anti-fascism is now a terrorist offence according to Trump

Funny how you support anti-fascism being made a terrorist offence, isn't it

Antifa are Anarchists and domestic terrorists

He is 100% correct
There it is straight from the horse's mouth yet again

You don't get many posters openly eulogising fascism but the white supremacist bases his whole sense of self around it

Pretty scary to be honest that such nutcases exist

I suppose at least given that he's out of Ireland it stops him being in league with the blood and soilers like Gemtrails and Justin Barrett in this country
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 01:13:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 18, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
From the way you phrase it, the obvious have.  Any link?

Go back one page-I our up a link to a very disturbing incident
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 01:15:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
"Law and order" as used in American politics has always been a white supremacist dog whistle

It means "keep the blacks down"

It is designed to portray blackness as synonomous with criminality and criminality as synonymous with blackness

One particular poster here is obsessed with doing just that

How are your buddies, the "good guys"  from Antifa doing this weather? (99% of whom are white)

Have they kicked anyone unconscious recently?
There's no such organisation as antifa

Antifa stands for anti-fascist

Anti-fascism is now a terrorist offence according to Trump

Funny how you support anti-fascism being made a terrorist offence, isn't it

Antifa are Anarchists and domestic terrorists

He is 100% correct
There it is straight from the horse's mouth yet again

You don't get many posters openly eulogising fascism but the white supremacist bases his whole sense of self around it

Pretty scary to be honest that such nutcases exist

I suppose at least given that he's out of Ireland it stops him being in league with the blood and soilers like Gemtrails and Justin Barrett in this country

Have the "good guys" shot any black teenagers recently and celebrated?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thepostmillennial.com/seattle-fifth-shooting-antifa-celebrates-chop
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 01:15:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 02:19:47 AM

Mark and Patricia McCloskey who are facing charges of one count of unlawful use of a weapon. The "party of law and order" my ass.
"Law and order" as used in American politics has always been a white supremacist dog whistle

It means "keep the blacks down"

It is designed to portray blackness as synonomous with criminality and criminality as synonymous with blackness

One particular poster here is obsessed with doing just that

How are your buddies, the "good guys"  from Antifa doing this weather? (99% of whom are white)

Have they kicked anyone unconscious recently?
There's no such organisation as antifa

Antifa stands for anti-fascist

Anti-fascism is now a terrorist offence according to Trump

Funny how you support anti-fascism being made a terrorist offence, isn't it

Antifa are Anarchists and domestic terrorists

He is 100% correct
There it is straight from the horse's mouth yet again

You don't get many posters openly eulogising fascism but the white supremacist bases his whole sense of self around it

Pretty scary to be honest that such nutcases exist

I suppose at least given that he's out of Ireland it stops him being in league with the blood and soilers like Gemtrails and Justin Barrett in this country

Have the "good guys" shot any black teenagers recently and celebrated?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thepostmillennial.com/seattle-fifth-shooting-antifa-celebrates-chop
the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 03:16:12 PM
Whitey is just itching to shout the n word all over the forum, it's so obvious

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 03:16:12 PM
Whitey is just itching to shout the n word all over the forum, it's so obvious

Sid....you can call me a lot of names, but racist is one that has absolutely no basis in reality

The people committing crimes in the inner city are as much victims as the people they maim and kill

But trying to lay the blame for these tragedies exclusively at the hands of Republicans is both pathetic and laughable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 03:32:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 03:28:34 PM

Sid....you can call me a lot of names, but racist is one that has absolutely no basis in reality

It's a deeply uncomfortable reality

Not for you, but for your victims

People like you are the problem

They've been the problem throughout history


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 03:32:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 03:28:34 PM

Sid....you can call me a lot of names, but racist is one that has absolutely no basis in reality

It's a deeply uncomfortable reality

Not for you, but for your victims

People like you are the problem

They've been the problem throughout history


Keep her lit Sid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 04:05:47 PM
I see that Joe did not appear on any of the Sunday shows, but did grant an interview to Cardi B

What a smart and uplifting lady

https://t.co/JIjqRK95sY

****warning**** Contains extremely vulgar language
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 18, 2020, 04:05:47 PM
I see that Joe did not appear on any of the Sunday shows, but did grant an interview to Cardi B

What a smart and uplifting lady

https://t.co/JIjqRK95sY

****warning**** Contains extremely vulgar language
she knows her shit  haha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 18, 2020, 01:13:16 PM


I suppose at least given that he's out of Ireland it stops him being in league with the blood and soilers like Gemtrails and Justin Barrett in this country

"Gemtrails." I like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 18, 2020, 05:33:56 PM
J70-you'll enjoy this one

Democratic Socialist running to replace Joe Kennedy in Congress came to this country as a penniless emigrant and worked her way through college while making minimum wage

Now she is "running for Congress to dismantle every oppressive system that denies us the basic necessities to live" from the luxury of her $1.7M Brookline manse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

Then you haven't been paying attention. Trump is president because America is a racist country, not the other way around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:41:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

Then you haven't been paying attention. Trump is president because America is a racist country, not the other way around.
was Obama not elected twice
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2020, 05:47:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

1. DeBlasio painted BLM in front of Trump Tower because of Trump's racism and rhetoric, not because he thinks Trump is the source of all the US's racist issues.
(I cycled past Trump Tower this morning on my way to work - the painting is still there and looking well  ;))
2. Those Democratic politicians DON'T want poor people in their cities? So they DON'T want to "soak the rich" to pay for public housing and schools and healthcare and so on? That's news!
3. I've never claimed that liberals or Democrats or public employees couldn't be corrupt. ANYONE can be corrupted. That's why you need independent oversight with proper teeth, whether its federal government inspectors general or a local police ombudsman.
4. The GOP most certainly COULD be worse. Where are the poor and downtrodden going to turn if the public programmes, whether for housing or health or whatever, disappear under a Republican administration?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2020, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:41:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

Then you haven't been paying attention. Trump is president because America is a racist country, not the other way around.
was Obama not elected twice

He was. Despite the efforts of the GOP itself and certain people who are now president who fostered or indulged the racism against Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 07:10:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 05:47:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

1. DeBlasio painted BLM in front of Trump Tower because of Trump's racism and rhetoric, not because he thinks Trump is the source of all the US's racist issues.
(I cycled past Trump Tower this morning on my way to work - the painting is still there and looking well  ;))
2. Those Democratic politicians DON'T want poor people in their cities? So they DON'T want to "soak the rich" to pay for public housing and schools and healthcare and so on? That's news!
3. I've never claimed that liberals or Democrats or public employees couldn't be corrupt. ANYONE can be corrupted. That's why you need independent oversight with proper teeth, whether its federal government inspectors general or a local police ombudsman.
4. The GOP most certainly COULD be worse. Where are the poor and downtrodden going to turn if the public programmes, whether for housing or health or whatever, disappear under a Republican administration?
the homeless are a business too j70 lots of money to be skimmed and backhanded from the millions spent on that also .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 08:35:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:41:31 PM
was Obama not elected twice

You're absolutely right. Racism doesn't exist in America anymore coz Obama.  ~sarc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 10:22:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:41:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

Then you haven't been paying attention. Trump is president because America is a racist country, not the other way around.
was Obama not elected twice

He was. Despite the efforts of the GOP itself and certain people who are now president who fostered or indulged the racism against Obama.
yes and when he won both times the results were accepted and there was no outcry in the country that's full of white supremacists like eamon and Sid seem to believe. Just gauge that to trumps win and it's easy figure out who the anti democracy people are .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 19, 2020, 02:02:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 07:10:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 05:47:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

1. DeBlasio painted BLM in front of Trump Tower because of Trump's racism and rhetoric, not because he thinks Trump is the source of all the US's racist issues.
(I cycled past Trump Tower this morning on my way to work - the painting is still there and looking well  ;))
2. Those Democratic politicians DON'T want poor people in their cities? So they DON'T want to "soak the rich" to pay for public housing and schools and healthcare and so on? That's news!
3. I've never claimed that liberals or Democrats or public employees couldn't be corrupt. ANYONE can be corrupted. That's why you need independent oversight with proper teeth, whether its federal government inspectors general or a local police ombudsman.
4. The GOP most certainly COULD be worse. Where are the poor and downtrodden going to turn if the public programmes, whether for housing or health or whatever, disappear under a Republican administration?
the homeless are a business too j70 lots of money to be skimmed and backhanded from the millions spent on that also .

o...k....??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 19, 2020, 02:07:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 10:22:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:41:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

Then you haven't been paying attention. Trump is president because America is a racist country, not the other way around.
was Obama not elected twice

He was. Despite the efforts of the GOP itself and certain people who are now president who fostered or indulged the racism against Obama.
yes and when he won both times the results were accepted and there was no outcry in the country that's full of white supremacists like eamon and Sid seem to believe. Just gauge that to trumps win and it's easy figure out who the anti democracy people are .

You must have missed the secession petitions in places like Texas, as well as the constant paranoid propaganda over his term from the right about what he was about to use the government to do (off the top of my head, do Jade Helm, for example, or FEMA re-education camps, ring any bells?).

And once again, Obama didn't try to invalidate the election ahead of time like Trump did in 2016 and is actively trying to do now.

If you want to whinge about anti-democratic tendencies, you should wait until you have a better horse to bet on than Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 19, 2020, 03:22:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2020, 02:07:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 10:22:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:41:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

Then you haven't been paying attention. Trump is president because America is a racist country, not the other way around.
was Obama not elected twice

He was. Despite the efforts of the GOP itself and certain people who are now president who fostered or indulged the racism against Obama.
yes and when he won both times the results were accepted and there was no outcry in the country that's full of white supremacists like eamon and Sid seem to believe. Just gauge that to trumps win and it's easy figure out who the anti democracy people are .

You must have missed the secession petitions in places like Texas, as well as the constant paranoid propaganda over his term from the right about what he was about to use the government to do (off the top of my head, do Jade Helm, for example, or FEMA re-education camps, ring any bells?).

And once again, Obama didn't try to invalidate the election ahead of time like Trump did in 2016 and is actively trying to do now.

If you want to whinge about anti-democratic tendencies, you should wait until you have a better horse to bet on than Trump.
california wanted to secede after last election and Obama only tried to interfere in the last election by spying on a presidential campaign .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 19, 2020, 12:19:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 19, 2020, 03:22:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2020, 02:07:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 10:22:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:41:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 03:02:35 PM

the Democrats really have a great scapegoat in trump blame him for everything even in states and cities they have run for decades, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis terrible places to live for black people and super dangerous for the communities that live there. Los Angeles 65k homeless San Francisco nobody on the streets only zombies , California will have no middle class soon only very rich and poor people ,the state can't even guarantee electricity to stay on in summer months , Portland and Seattle have the most liberal policies in the country but the loons are still not happy and riot almost nightly..Add the murder rate in nyc and Chicago and other liberal cities going through the roof weekly and it should give you a snapshot of the country in the future .

1.   Who is blaming Trump personally for the various long-standing problems in the US? He is rightly getting plenty of blame for a number of things from his incompetence to his corruption/self-dealing to his bigoted rhetoric and policies to his embracing of conspiracy theories and anti-intellectualism (although most of the latter are standard GOP fare, in fairness).

2.   Tell us Gmac, what the GOP is trying to do to help these inner city communities which, like many large cities in a capitalist system, are full of poverty and crime? How are conservative poliices going to bring in a bright new future instead of this "American Carnage" you're so confidently predicting? What does the GOP have to offer a poor, single black mother with a couple of kids? What is the GOP solution to homelessness or gentrification or healthcare?
who's blaming trump ? Have you been asleep for the last 5 months ,America is a racist country and it's because trump is the president is what I hear , why is the mayor of nyc painting blm on the street outside trump tower ?  Here's the thing about gentrification in these cities the politicians don't want any poor people or shitty old buildings in their cities there's no money in that for them .
They want property taxes , planning and building department fees from upgrades and new buildings which go to school districts and keep city budgets afloat , they want to do inspections on the buildings which creates more fees , they add in one or two low income housing here and there to cover their ass and they are corrupt also , the head building inspector and public works head were both arrested in San Francisco in the last year . Not sure what gop would do but it couldn't be any worse

Then you haven't been paying attention. Trump is president because America is a racist country, not the other way around.
was Obama not elected twice

He was. Despite the efforts of the GOP itself and certain people who are now president who fostered or indulged the racism against Obama.
yes and when he won both times the results were accepted and there was no outcry in the country that's full of white supremacists like eamon and Sid seem to believe. Just gauge that to trumps win and it's easy figure out who the anti democracy people are .

You must have missed the secession petitions in places like Texas, as well as the constant paranoid propaganda over his term from the right about what he was about to use the government to do (off the top of my head, do Jade Helm, for example, or FEMA re-education camps, ring any bells?).

And once again, Obama didn't try to invalidate the election ahead of time like Trump did in 2016 and is actively trying to do now.

If you want to whinge about anti-democratic tendencies, you should wait until you have a better horse to bet on than Trump.
california wanted to secede after last election and Obama only tried to interfere in the last election by spying on a presidential campaign .

California wanted to secede or there was a Russian-boosted Twitter surge? https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41853131 (https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41853131). Regardless, assuming this Californian secession movement is part of the appalling anti-democratic response to Trump's election that you're lamenting, at least you're acknowledging that there WAS "outcry" in the country after Obama's victories.

As for Obama himself, I thought the conservative line was that he found out about the "spying" shortly before the inauguration when the concerns were raised about Flynn? A bit late for "interference" at that point, no? And from the sounds of the latest report from the Senate committee, compromised and all as that investigation was by obstruction, Manafort (i.e. the campaign manager) was up to his ears with the Russians.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 19, 2020, 04:16:09 PM
I haven't been able to read the article, but I heard it read out on the radio

Matt Talibbi- editor of Rolling Stone, (and absolutely no friend of Republicans) calls BS in the Post Office hoax

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-press-that-cried-wolf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 19, 2020, 04:35:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 19, 2020, 04:16:09 PM
I haven't been able to read the article, but I heard it read out on the radio

Matt Talibbi- editor of Rolling Stone, (and absolutely no friend of Republicans) calls BS in the Post Office hoax

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-press-that-cried-wolf

Its behind a paywall, but I've heard a few liberal commentators saying that there are stories of long term reform getting mixed in here and that its overblown.

However, that's not surprising when the f**king president is sending out messages about blocking funding for the post office and claiming, without evidence, that the desire for funding to make sure mail-in votes can be facilitated is all part of some  Democratic plan to steal the election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 19, 2020, 04:43:49 PM
Here's a western Republican Senator, who is in a tough fight for reelection, on the issue of the post office (including delivery of prescription drugs):

https://www.daines.senate.gov/news/press-releases/daines-urges-usps-to-investigate-the-removal-of-post-office-collection-boxes-in-montana (https://www.daines.senate.gov/news/press-releases/daines-urges-usps-to-investigate-the-removal-of-post-office-collection-boxes-in-montana)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2020, 04:54:11 PM
Matt Taibbi is a joke

He spent years in Russia sexually harrassing and abusing women

He's now basically a full time disruptor for Trump

Nobody should take anything he says seriously
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 19, 2020, 05:32:24 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/08/15/usps-mailboxes-brighton-photo/amp

As always there's 2 sides to every story and the truth is somewhere in the middle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 05:38:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 18, 2020, 10:22:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2020, 05:49:03 PM

He was. Despite the efforts of the GOP itself and certain people who are now president who fostered or indulged the racism against Obama.
yes and when he won both times the results were accepted and there was no outcry in the country that's full of white supremacists like eamon and Sid seem to believe.

Jesus wept. Do you people even hear yourselves? Obama's election sent the Fox News crowd into an 8-year apoplectic rage, saw the creation of the Tea Party, and there was an uptick in racism. In fact people like you were lambasting Obama for being "divisive," blaming him for provoking your racism.

Obama's election reduced perceptions of racism, but boosted opposition to race-related policies (https://isr.umich.edu/news-events/insights-newsletter/article/obamas-election-reduced-perceptions-of-racism-but-boosted-opposition-to-race-related-policies/)

QuoteJust gauge that to trumps win and it's easy figure out who the anti democracy people are .
Trump lost the popular vote by 3.5 million. His very election was anti-democratic, but every time you point it out then the mad hatters step in with the usual condescending "We're a republic, not a democracy" BS talking point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 05:42:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 19, 2020, 03:22:59 AM
california wanted to secede after last election and Obama only tried to interfere in the last election by spying on a presidential campaign .

California wanted no such thing, and the 'spygate' conspiracy theory is not taken seriously by anyone.

Where do you conservatives get your information from? Do you believe in alien abduction too?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 19, 2020, 07:05:47 PM
Meanwhile Don congratulated this woman who describes herself as a "proud Islamaphobe" and is a Sandy Hook hoaxer on winning her primary last night - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1295932138290917376


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfyaCkQXYAE_BIB?format=png&name=360x360)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 19, 2020, 07:41:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 19, 2020, 07:05:47 PM
Meanwhile Don congratulated this woman who describes herself as a "proud Islamaphobe" and is a Sandy Hook hoaxer on winning her primary last night - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1295932138290917376


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfyaCkQXYAE_BIB?format=png&name=360x360)
what about Linda Sarsour the antisemite talking at dnc convention ? All good I guess
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 19, 2020, 07:50:59 PM
So on the one hand Biden disavows this speaker (who has the nerve to be a critic of Israel and supporter of BDS!) while Trump, once against, singles out and expresses public support for a racist conspiracy theorist, but its all the same thing.

Gotcha.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 19, 2020, 08:15:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2020, 07:50:59 PM
So on the one hand Biden disavows this speaker (who has the nerve to be a critic of Israel and supporter of BDS!) while Trump, once against, singles out and expresses public support for a racist conspiracy theorist, but its all the same thing.

Gotcha.

Well why doesn't he demand she be disinvited from speaking then if he's disavowing her?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 19, 2020, 09:06:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 19, 2020, 07:05:47 PM
Meanwhile Don congratulated this woman who describes herself as a "proud Islamaphobe" and is a Sandy Hook hoaxer on winning her primary last night - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1295932138290917376


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfyaCkQXYAE_BIB?format=png&name=360x360)
despicable thing to tweet .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 09:47:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 19, 2020, 07:41:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 19, 2020, 07:05:47 PM
Meanwhile Don congratulated this woman who describes herself as a "proud Islamaphobe" and is a Sandy Hook hoaxer on winning her primary last night - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1295932138290917376


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfyaCkQXYAE_BIB?format=png&name=360x360)
what about Linda Sarsour the antisemite talking at dnc convention ? All good I guess

Standard rebuttal: Criticizing Israel does not an anti-semite make.

Your attempt to change the subject is noted though. Where did you take your whataboutery lessons? DUP headquarters?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 19, 2020, 09:51:51 PM
So point out that the Democrats also have some unsavory characters is what aboutery

I think double standards is a better "choice of words"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 19, 2020, 10:41:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 19, 2020, 09:51:51 PM
So point out that the Democrats also have some unsavory characters is what aboutery

I think double standards is a better "choice of words"
aoc endorses Bernard , anti semites giving speeches , interviews with Cardi b what's next Farrakhan to make an appearance?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:44:54 PM
Good man. Keep on repeating the "x is an anti-semite" charge without bothering your head to produce anything "anti-semitic" they have ever actually said. Keep repeating the lies over and over again like a good Fox News-watching bot.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:46:49 PM
By the way, I happen to support the BDS movement too. Does that make me an anti-semite in your book?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 19, 2020, 10:47:53 PM
You know that's a procedural thing right? Sanders passed the threshold of delegates to be on the ballot - she's the closest politician to him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:51:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 19, 2020, 10:47:53 PM
You know that's a procedural thing right? Sanders passed the threshold of delegates to be on the ballot - she's the closest politician to him.

You expect a conservative to understand anything that's not a simple black-and-white explanation? You must be new here. Conservatives aren't very bright.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2020, 10:51:55 PM
'Tis mad the way AOC drives white male Trumpbots up the wall with rage, it really is

There's such a bang of sexual inadequacy and self-loathing off their hatred of her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:53:41 PM
How many former presidents are going to speak at the Rethuglican convention? Not one.

Who do we have instead? We get the MAGA hat kid from Covington Catholic (the one with the punchable face), the racist angry gun couple, and the demon sperm "doctor" will be their token black speaker to prove that they're "not really racist."

Even Trump's former agency heads are endorsing Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:54:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 19, 2020, 10:51:55 PM
'Tis mad the way AOC drives white male Trumpbots up the wall with rage, it really is

There's such a bang of sexual inadequacy and self-loathing off their hatred of her

There's so much to like about her, but I think my favourite quality is her ability to drive conservatives nuts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2020, 10:56:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:54:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 19, 2020, 10:51:55 PM
'Tis mad the way AOC drives white male Trumpbots up the wall with rage, it really is

There's such a bang of sexual inadequacy and self-loathing off their hatred of her

There's so much to like about her, but I think my favourite quality is her ability to drive conservatives nuts.
Moral clarity and a firm belief in social justice will do that

Things Republicans hate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 19, 2020, 11:46:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:53:41 PM
How many former presidents are going to speak at the Rethuglican convention? Not one.

Who do we have instead? We get the MAGA hat kid from Covington Catholic (the one with the punchable face), the racist angry gun couple, and the demon sperm "doctor" will be their token black speaker to prove that they're "not really racist."

Even Trump's former agency heads are endorsing Biden.
only w is alive and the way trump smacked down Jeb I wouldn't expect him to speak .
Wonder what does side show joe make of the whole thing he's really just a puppet not even mentioned by some speakers aoc being one .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 12:12:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 19, 2020, 08:15:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2020, 07:50:59 PM
So on the one hand Biden disavows this speaker (who has the nerve to be a critic of Israel and supporter of BDS!) while Trump, once against, singles out and expresses public support for a racist conspiracy theorist, but its all the same thing.

Gotcha.

Well why doesn't he demand she be disinvited from speaking then if he's disavowing her?

From what I understood, she was one of many in some group thing, so maybe he wasn't aware of her. However, I haven't been watching, so I could be way off.

I disagree with Joe though. Nothing wrong with BDS at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 12:14:10 AM
And Trump, true to form, singing the praises of the QAnon whack jobs.... because they like him!

What a pathetic, needy little bigot he is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 12:38:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:53:41 PM
How many former presidents are going to speak at the Rethuglican convention? Not one.

Who do we have instead? We get the MAGA hat kid from Covington Catholic (the one with the punchable face), the racist angry gun couple, and the demon sperm "doctor" will be their token black speaker to prove that they're "not really racist."

Even Trump's former agency heads are endorsing Biden.

Ah yes, the angry bitter begrudgers that someone would have the audacity to send their kid to a Catholic School
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 04:12:56 AM
List of Republicans who oppose the 2020 Donald Trump presidential campaign (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_oppose_the_2020_Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign)


Federal officials
Former presidents

George W. Bush, President of the United States (2001–2009); Governor of Texas (1995–2000)[1]

Former cabinet-level officials

Chuck Hagel, U.S. Secretary of Defense (2013–2015), U.S. Senator from Nebraska (1997–2009)[2] (endorsed Joe Biden)
John F. Kelly, United States Secretary of Homeland Security (2017), White House Chief of Staff (2017–2019)[3]
Ray LaHood, U.S. Secretary of Transportation (2009–2013), U.S. Representative from IL-18 (1995–2009) (endorsed Joe Biden)[4]
Jim Mattis, U.S. Secretary of Defense (2017–2019)[5]
Colin Powell, U.S. Secretary of State (2001–2005), Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (1989–1993), United States National Security Advisor (1987–1989) (endorsed Joe Biden)[6]
Tom Ridge, United States Secretary of Homeland Security (2003–2005); Homeland Security Advisor (2001–2003); Governor of Pennsylvania (1995–2001)[7]
Christine Todd Whitman, Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (2001–2003), Governor of New Jersey (1994–2001)[8] (endorsed Joe Biden)
Other executive branch officials
Bruce Bartlett, author, historian, policy advisor to Ronald Reagan (former Republican, now Independent; previously endorsed Elizabeth Warren and then endorsed Joe Biden)[9][10]
John Bolton, United States National Security Advisor (2018–2019)[11]
Bill Kristol, Chief of Staff to the Vice President (1989–1993), founder of The Weekly Standard, editor of The Bulwark (endorsed Joe Biden)[12]
Rosario Marin, Treasurer of the United States (2001–2003) (endorsed Joe Biden)[13]
Omarosa Manigault Newman, Director of Communications for the Office of Public Liaison (2017–2018), reality television star (independent as of 2019)[14]
Anthony Scaramucci, White House Communications Director (2017) (endorsed Joe Biden)[15]
Miles Taylor, Homeland Security chief of staff (2017–2019) (endorsed Joe Biden)[16]

Justice department officials
Jim Comey
James Comey, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (2013–2017), Deputy Attorney General (2003–2005) (former Republican, Independent since 2016, endorsed Joe Biden)[17][18]

U.S. Senators
Current
Susan Collins, U.S. Senator from Maine (1997–present) (declines to make a 2020 endorsement)[19]
Lisa Murkowski, U.S. Senator from Alaska (2002–present)[20]
Mitt Romney, U.S. Senator from Utah (2019–present), Governor of Massachusetts (2003–2007), 2012 nominee for President[21]
Ben Sasse, U.S. Senator from Nebraska (2015–present)[22]

Former
David Durenberger, Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee (1985–1987), U.S. Senator from Minnesota (1978–1995) (endorsed Joe Biden)
Jeff Flake, U.S. Senator from Arizona (2013–2019), U.S. Representative from AZ-06 (2003–2013) and AZ-01 (2001–2003) (endorsed Joe Biden)[23]
Slade Gorton, U.S. Senator from Washington (1981–1987, 1989–2001)[24]
Gordon J. Humphrey, U.S. Senator from (1979–1990) (former Republican, registered independent since 2016, endorsed Joe Biden)[25]
John Warner, U.S. Senator from Virginia (1979–2009), Chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee (2003–2007), Chair of the Senate Rule Committee (1995–1999), United States Secretary of the Navy (1972–1974), Under Secretary of the Navy (1969–1972) (endorsed Joe Biden)[26]

U.S. Representatives
Current
Justin Amash, U.S. Representative from MI-03 (2011–present) (former Republican, now Libertarian)[27]
Francis Rooney, U.S. Representative from FL-19 (2017–present)[28]
Fred Upton, U.S. Representative from MI-06 (1987–present)[29]

Former
Tom Coleman, U.S. Representative from MO-06 (1976–1993)[30]
Ryan Costello, U.S. Representative from PA-06 (2015–2019)[31]
Charlie Dent, U.S. Representative from PA-15 (2005-2018), Chair of the House Ethics Committee (2015-2017), Member of the Pennsylvania Senate from the 16th District (1999-2004), Member of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives from the 132nd District (1991-1998)[32] (endorsed Joe Biden)
Charles Djou, U.S. Representative from HI-01 (2010–2011) (Republican until 2018, Independent since 2018)[33] (endorsed Joe Biden)
Mickey Edwards, U.S. Representative from OK-05 (1977–1993)[34]
Richard L. Hanna, U.S. Representative from NY-24 (2011–2013), NY-22 (2013–2017) (deceased)[35]
Amo Houghton, U.S. Representative from NY-34 (1987–1993), NY-31 (1993–2003), and NY-29 (2003–2005) (deceased)[36]
Bob Inglis, U.S. Representative from SC-04 (1993–1999, 2005–2011)[37]
David Jolly, U.S. Representative from FL-13 (2014–2017), independent as of 2018[38]
Frank LoBiondo, U.S. Representative from NJ-02 (1995–2019)[39]
Susan Molinari, U.S. Representative from NY-14 (1990–1993) and NY-13 (1993–1997)[40] (endorsed Joe Biden)
Reid Ribble, U.S. Representative from WI-08 (2011–2017)[41]
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, U.S. Representative from FL-27 (1989–2019)[42]
Joe Walsh, U.S. Representative from IL-08 (2011–2013), 2020 candidate for president (Republican before 2020, now Independent, endorsed Joe Biden)[43]

State and territorial executive officials
Governors
Current
Charlie Baker, Governor of Massachusetts since 2015[44]
Larry Hogan, Governor of Maryland since 2015[45]
Phil Scott, Governor of Vermont since 2017, Lieutenant Governor of Vermont from 2011–2017[46]

Former
Jeb Bush, 43rd Governor of Florida (1999–2007), Secretary of Commerce of Florida (1987–1988), Republican candidate for President in 2016[47]
John Kasich, Governor of Ohio (2011–2019), U.S. Representative from OH-12 (1983–2001) (endorsed Joe Biden)[48]
George Pataki, Governor of New York (1995–2006) and 2016 presidential candidate (Declined a 2020 endorsement)[49]
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California (2003–2011)[50]
Jane Swift, Governor of Massachusetts (2001–2003)[51]
Bill Weld, Governor of Massachusetts (1991–1997) and 2016 Libertarian Party nominee for Vice President of the United States (endorsed Joe Biden)[52]

Lieutenant Governors
Current
Karyn Polito, Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts since 2015[53]

State and territorial representatives
Former
Jim Cunneen, California State Representative from District 24 (1994–2000) (endorsed Joe Biden)[13]
Chris Vance, Washington State Representative from District 31 (1991–1994), Chair of the Washington Republican Party (2001–2006),[54] Republican candidate for US Senate in 2016 (former Republican, Independent since 2017, endorsed Joe Biden)[55]

Judges
Former
Robert F. Orr, Justice of the North Carolina Supreme Court (1994–2004)[56]

Municipal and local officials
Mayors

Current
Michael Taylor, Mayor of Sterling Heights, MI (2014–present) (endorsed Joe Biden)[57]

Local legislators
Current
Mark Kersey, San Diego City Council (2012–present) (former Republican, Independent since 2019)[58]

Former military
Navy
William McRaven, four star admiral[59]

Party officials
State party chairs
Former
Matt Borges, Chair of the Ohio Republican Party (2013–2017) (endorsed Joe Biden)[60]
Jennifer Horn, Chair of the New Hampshire Republican Party (2013–2017), 2008 nominee for NH-02 (endorsed Joe Biden)[61]

Activists and public figures

Steve Schmidt
Max Boot, author, consultant, military historian, columnist for The Washington Post (Republican before 2016, now Independent, endorsed Joe Biden)[62]
Mona Charen, journalist[63]
George Conway, attorney, co-founder of The Lincoln Project (Republican before 2018, now Independent, endorsed Joe Biden)[64]
Ann Coulter, far-right media pundit and author[65]
Mindy Finn, political consultant, strategist, and activist (Independent running mate for Evan McMullin in 2016)[66]
David Frum, journalist and commentator, speechwriter for president George W. Bush[67]
Robert Kagan, historian (independent as of 2016)[68]
Sarah Longwell, publisher of The Bulwark, former board chair of the Log Cabin Republicans (endorsed Joe Biden)[69]
Evan McMullin, former CIA agent, ran as an independent in 2016 (independent as of 2016)[70]
Ana Navarro, political commentator and Republican strategist (endorsed Joe Biden)[71]
Tom Nichols, national security affairs scholar[72]
Steve Schmidt, chief strategist for the John McCain 2008 presidential campaign, co-founder of The Lincoln Project (Republican before 2018, now Independent, endorsed Joe Biden)[73]
Mac Stipanovich, political activist and strategist (Republican before 2019, now Democratic, endorsed Joe Biden)[74]
Sully Sullenberger, former U.S. Air Force captain and commercial airline pilot during the water landing of US Airways Flight 1549 (former Republican, endorsed Joe Biden)[75]
Charlie Sykes, conservative talk show radio host, founder of The Bulwark (endorsed Joe Biden)[76]
John Weaver, political consultant, chief strategist for the John Kasich 2016 presidential campaign, co-founder of The Lincoln Project (endorsed Joe Biden)[9]
George Will, journalist, columnist for The Washington Post (Republican before 2016, now Independent, endorsed Joe Biden)[77]
Rick Wilson, political strategist, media consultant, author, co-founder of The Lincoln Project (endorsed Joe Biden)[73]
Benjamin Wittes, journalist[78]
Business executives and leaders
Mike Fernandez, founder of MBF Healthcare Partners[79][80]
Carly Fiorina, Chair (2000–2005), President and CEO (1999–2005) of Hewlett-Packard, 2016 Republican candidate for president, 2010 California Republican nominee for Senate (endorsed Joe Biden)[81][82]
Cindy McCain, businesswoman and philanthropist[83]
Meg Whitman, CEO of Quibi, CEO of Hewlett Packard Enterprise (2011–2018), CEO of eBay (1998–2008), 2010 Republican nominee for Governor of California (endorsed Joe Biden)[84]

Media personalities

Meghan McCain, daughter of former Arizona Senator and 2008 Republican Presidential nominee John McCain, co-host of The View (endorsed Joe Biden)[85]

Organizations
The Lincoln Project, Republican Anti-Trump PAC[86]
Republican Voters Against Trump[87]
Reagan Foundation, foundation of former president Ronald Reagan (1981–1989)[88]
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 20, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:53:41 PM
How many former presidents are going to speak at the Rethuglican convention? Not one.

Who do we have instead? We get the MAGA hat kid from Covington Catholic (the one with the punchable face), the racist angry gun couple, and the demon sperm "doctor" will be their token black speaker to prove that they're "not really racist."

Even Trump's former agency heads are endorsing Biden.

Well then Biden will waltz it in November and you have nothing to worry about.... right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tyrdub on August 20, 2020, 09:05:32 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 20, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:53:41 PM
How many former presidents are going to speak at the Rethuglican convention? Not one.

Who do we have instead? We get the MAGA hat kid from Covington Catholic (the one with the punchable face), the racist angry gun couple, and the demon sperm "doctor" will be their token black speaker to prove that they're "not really racist."

Even Trump's former agency heads are endorsing Biden.

Well then Biden will waltz it in November and you have nothing to worry about.... right?

As long a Putin agrees to it  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 12:37:56 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 20, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2020, 10:53:41 PM
How many former presidents are going to speak at the Rethuglican convention? Not one.

Who do we have instead? We get the MAGA hat kid from Covington Catholic (the one with the punchable face), the racist angry gun couple, and the demon sperm "doctor" will be their token black speaker to prove that they're "not really racist."

Even Trump's former agency heads are endorsing Biden.

Well then Biden will waltz it in November and you have nothing to worry about.... right?

Unfortunately the Republican base, who are all in on conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and false grievance, constitute quite a large number of voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 12:51:37 PM
I like Joe and might even have  voted for him until he picked Harris as his running mate. To falsely accuse someone of being a racist to score political points is a real indictment of her character (which I didn't have a high opinion of to begin with)

My fear is that the Democrats are just using Joe to funnel in more extreme leftist platform that Many people would be comfortable with. I would be surprised if he even lasts the entire 4 years and hey presto we now have the first female African American President

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on August 20, 2020, 01:14:19 PM
Which you make it sound as the worst thing imaginable.
Is the mask slipping?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 01:17:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 20, 2020, 01:14:19 PM
Which you make it sound as the worst thing imaginable.
Is the mask slipping?

What does that mean?

I don't like Kamala Harris....in fact I detest her based on her behavior during the Kavanaugh hearings

If I wanted Kamala Harris to be President I would have voted for her in the primary-I didn't

If I'm voting for Joe, it's because I want HIM to be President for 4 years

(Kamala Harris got something like 2% support during the Democratic primary. So apart from her not being my choice, she certainly wasn't the choice of the overwhelming majority of Democratic primary voters)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM
Why do you "detest" her based on the Kavanaugh hearings?

Who did she falsely accuse of being a racist?

Who are you going to vote now that you apparently have no choice but to not vote for Biden?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM
Why do you "detest" her based on the Kavanaugh hearings?

Who did she falsely accuse of being a racist?

Who are you going to vote now that you apparently have no choice but to not vote for Biden?

She set out to destroy a good persons character based on a complete pack of lies from Dr Ford

She accused Joe Biden of being a racist

I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but as my vote doesn't really count I may protest vote a third party candidate. (I actually like Joe and if he had picked anyone else I probably would have voted for him)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM
Why do you "detest" her based on the Kavanaugh hearings?

Who did she falsely accuse of being a racist?

Who are you going to vote now that you apparently have no choice but to not vote for Biden?

She set out to destroy a good persons character based on a complete pack of lies from Dr Ford

She accused Joe Biden of being a racist

I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but as my vote doesn't really count I may protest vote a third party candidate. (I actually like Joe and if he had picked anyone else I probably would have voted for him)

FFS

How do YOU know Ford was lying? And if she was in fact lying, at what point in the proceedings should Harris have known?

She didn't accuse Biden of being a racist. She perfectly validly questioned his support for busing back in the 70s. She also questioned his having worked in the Senate with segregationists, although this was probably a bit unfair given the make-up of the Senate and the back-slapping/deal-making way of doing business that existed there at the time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:45:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM
Why do you "detest" her based on the Kavanaugh hearings?

Who did she falsely accuse of being a racist?

Who are you going to vote now that you apparently have no choice but to not vote for Biden?

She set out to destroy a good persons character based on a complete pack of lies from Dr Ford

She accused Joe Biden of being a racist

I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but as my vote doesn't really count I may protest vote a third party candidate. (I actually like Joe and if he had picked anyone else I probably would have voted for him)

FFS

How do YOU know Ford was lying? And if she was in fact lying, at what point in the proceedings should Harris have known?

She didn't accuse Biden of being a racist. She perfectly validly questioned his support for busing back in the 70s. She also questioned his having worked in the Senate with segregationists, although this was probably a bit unfair given the make-up of the Senate and the back-slapping/deal-making way of doing business that existed there at the time.

FFS yourself

Someone who claimed they were afraid to fly yet we find out she flew in single engine planes to go to remote locations to go scuba diving. She flat out lied about why she put a second front door in her house....so fvckin strangers could stay in her house through AirBnb.....I could go on but you obviously believe her so fair enough

And denying she called Joe a racist....this falls into the believe what you want category. Here how DR JILL BIDEN herself interpreted the attack (and that's what it was)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/07/08/politics/jill-biden-surprised-kamala-harris-debate/index.html

"I think that they were looking at the past. I mean, the one thing you cannot say about Joe is that he's a racist. I mean, he got into politics because of his commitment to civil rights. And then to be elected with Barack Obama, and then someone is saying, you know, you're a racist?"

So you can interpret her words better than Joe Biden's own wife?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
Bannon has just been indicted for fraud and money laundering

Every last one of them is a criminal

The whole Trump operation is a criminal enterprise and always has been
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2020, 02:53:53 PM
LOL

QuoteFormer Trump adviser Steve Bannon charged with fraud over fundraising campaign to build US-Mexico border wall
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 03:01:16 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2020, 02:53:53 PM
LOL

QuoteFormer Trump adviser Steve Bannon charged with fraud over fundraising campaign to build US-Mexico border wall

Not at all surprised

If anyone read the book by Michael Lewis that I've mentioned here 100 times you'd know they all a bunch of complete clowns
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 03:03:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:45:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM
Why do you "detest" her based on the Kavanaugh hearings?

Who did she falsely accuse of being a racist?

Who are you going to vote now that you apparently have no choice but to not vote for Biden?

She set out to destroy a good persons character based on a complete pack of lies from Dr Ford

She accused Joe Biden of being a racist

I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but as my vote doesn't really count I may protest vote a third party candidate. (I actually like Joe and if he had picked anyone else I probably would have voted for him)

FFS

How do YOU know Ford was lying? And if she was in fact lying, at what point in the proceedings should Harris have known?

She didn't accuse Biden of being a racist. She perfectly validly questioned his support for busing back in the 70s. She also questioned his having worked in the Senate with segregationists, although this was probably a bit unfair given the make-up of the Senate and the back-slapping/deal-making way of doing business that existed there at the time.

FFS yourself

Someone who claimed they were afraid to fly yet we find out she flew in single engine planes to go to remote locations to go scuba diving. She flat out lied about why she put a second front door in her house....so fvckin strangers could stay in her house through AirBnb.....I could go on but you obviously believe her so fair enough

And denying she called Joe a racist....this falls into the believe what you want category. Here how DR JILL BIDEN herself interpreted the attack (and that's what it was)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/07/08/politics/jill-biden-surprised-kamala-harris-debate/index.html

"I think that they were looking at the past. I mean, the one thing you cannot say about Joe is that he's a racist. I mean, he got into politics because of his commitment to civil rights. And then to be elected with Barack Obama, and then someone is saying, you know, you're a racist?"

So you can interpret her words better than Joe Biden's own wife?

I have never said I believed her. I have no idea if she OR Kavanaugh lied or not. YOU are the one constantly on about Kavanaugh and the nasty Democrats and the lying Christine Ford. You're the one who is always adamant about what scumbags and liars the left and the media are. Your whole political worldview is based on it.

Be all that as it may, I ask, again, assuming Ford WAS lying, at what point should Harris have known?

Jill Biden is obviously and understandably very sensitive and defensive about her husband and his record. That doesn't mean its not fair game. If Biden supported busing, then it was fair to ask him to defend or, if necessary, disavow it, same as anything else on his record. Most people would understand, things change. That doesn't make Harris wrong for raising it, especially if she was bused herself, nor does it mean that she is saying he is or was racist. And if Jill Biden is upset by that, she better get ready for what is coming. Although, in fairness, Trump doesn't seem to have much except in probably helping Biden by lowering expectations to the point that anything more articulate than a drooling slur out of Biden's mouth will be seen as validation.

On a similar note, Harris' record as a prosecutor is equally fair game.

The old days in the Senate with the segregationists, again, I'm sure most people understand that it was a different body then with a lot more work and cooperation across the political divides, both party and ideological, to get things done. Its only in the last decade or two that things have gotten to the point where some politicians feel they can't even be seen to be civil to each other's faces e.g. that gobshite from Florida, Yoho, calling AOC a "f**king bitch" recently, which I'm sure played very well back in his home patch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 03:06:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
Bannon has just been indicted for fraud and money laundering

Every last one of them is a criminal

The whole Trump operation is a criminal enterprise and always has been

Not to worry.

Pardon will be promised in advance and delivered if Bannon remembers the two greatest things in life:

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/60393912.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 03:07:25 PM
Watergate: Republicans
The carpet bombing of Cambodia and enabling the Khmer Rouge: Republicans
Operation Condor in Chile: Republicans
The War On Drugs: Republicans
Invading Lebanon and hastily retreating after getting massacred: Republicans
Inventing Gaddafi as an international supervillain: Republicans
Supporting Saddam Hussein as he gassed the Kurds: Republicans
Iran-Contra: Republicans
Not preventing 9/11: Republicans
The Patriot Act and Guantanamo: Republicans
The War in Iraq: Republicans
Disastrous lack of response to Hurricane Katrina: Republicans
The great financial crash: Republicans
Letting Epstein off the hook: A Republican
Handing over control of the White House to a fascist Russian asset: Republicans

Almost like there's a pattern here




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 03:10:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 03:03:47 PM

Be all that as it may, I ask, again, assuming Ford WAS lying, at what point should Harris have known?

No way was Ford lying

Kavanaugh was a drunk and a dangerous sexual predator and should be nowhere near that court

Trump is much worse again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 20, 2020, 03:16:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
Bannon has just been indicted for fraud and money laundering

Every last one of them is a criminal

The whole Trump operation is a criminal enterprise and always has been

My thoughts and prayers are with him at this time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 03:16:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 03:03:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:45:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM
Why do you "detest" her based on the Kavanaugh hearings?

Who did she falsely accuse of being a racist?

Who are you going to vote now that you apparently have no choice but to not vote for Biden?

She set out to destroy a good persons character based on a complete pack of lies from Dr Ford

She accused Joe Biden of being a racist

I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but as my vote doesn't really count I may protest vote a third party candidate. (I actually like Joe and if he had picked anyone else I probably would have voted for him)

FFS

How do YOU know Ford was lying? And if she was in fact lying, at what point in the proceedings should Harris have known?

She didn't accuse Biden of being a racist. She perfectly validly questioned his support for busing back in the 70s. She also questioned his having worked in the Senate with segregationists, although this was probably a bit unfair given the make-up of the Senate and the back-slapping/deal-making way of doing business that existed there at the time.

FFS yourself

Someone who claimed they were afraid to fly yet we find out she flew in single engine planes to go to remote locations to go scuba diving. She flat out lied about why she put a second front door in her house....so fvckin strangers could stay in her house through AirBnb.....I could go on but you obviously believe her so fair enough

And denying she called Joe a racist....this falls into the believe what you want category. Here how DR JILL BIDEN herself interpreted the attack (and that's what it was)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/07/08/politics/jill-biden-surprised-kamala-harris-debate/index.html

"I think that they were looking at the past. I mean, the one thing you cannot say about Joe is that he's a racist. I mean, he got into politics because of his commitment to civil rights. And then to be elected with Barack Obama, and then someone is saying, you know, you're a racist?"

So you can interpret her words better than Joe Biden's own wife?

I have never said I believed her. I have no idea if she OR Kavanaugh lied or not. YOU are the one constantly on about Kavanaugh and the nasty Democrats and the lying Christine Ford. You're the one who is always adamant about what scumbags and liars the left and the media are. Your whole political worldview is based on it.

Be all that as it may, I ask, again, assuming Ford WAS lying, at what point should Harris have known?

Jill Biden is obviously and understandably very sensitive and defensive about her husband and his record. That doesn't mean its not fair game. If Biden supported busing, then it was fair to ask him to defend or, if necessary, disavow it, same as anything else on his record. Most people would understand, things change. That doesn't make Harris wrong for raising it, especially if she was bused herself, nor does it mean that she is saying he is or was racist. And if Jill Biden is upset by that, she better get ready for what is coming. Although, in fairness, Trump doesn't seem to have much except in probably helping Biden by lowering expectations to the point that anything more articulate than a drooling slur out of Biden's mouth will be seen as validation.

On a similar note, Harris' record as a prosecutor is equally fair game.

The old days in the Senate with the segregationists, again, I'm sure most people understand that it was a different body then with a lot more work and cooperation across the political divides, both party and ideological, to get things done. Its only in the last decade or two that things have gotten to the point where some politicians feel they can't even be seen to be civil to each other's faces e.g. that gobshite from Florida, Yoho, calling AOC a "f**king bitch" recently, which I'm sure played very well back in his home patch.

SHE FALSELY ACCUSED HIM OF BEING A RACIST

You can play verbal gymnastics until doomsday, but that doesn't change what she did and how her comments were interpreted by most people who heard them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/27/harris-attacks-bidens-record-on-busing-and-working-with-segregationists.html

Directly from Biden campaign after the debate- Cristobal Alex, a senior advisor to Biden's campaign, tweeted that it was "outrageous" to attack President Barack Obama's veep "because he worked to convince" Republicans to pass civil rights legislation.

OUTRAGEOUS AND AN ATTACK

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2020, 03:17:28 PM
Quote from: dec on August 20, 2020, 03:16:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
Bannon has just been indicted for fraud and money laundering

Every last one of them is a criminal

The whole Trump operation is a criminal enterprise and always has been

My thoughts and prayers are with him at this time.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MGgSh4VG/ezgif-com-video-to-gif-18.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 20, 2020, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM
Why do you "detest" her based on the Kavanaugh hearings?

Who did she falsely accuse of being a racist?

Who are you going to vote now that you apparently have no choice but to not vote for Biden?

She set out to destroy a good persons character based on a complete pack of lies from Dr Ford

She accused Joe Biden of being a racist

I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but as my vote doesn't really count I may protest vote a third party candidate. (I actually like Joe and if he had picked anyone else I probably would have voted for him)

Her exact words were "I do not believe you are a racist"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 20, 2020, 03:31:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2020, 03:17:28 PM
Quote from: dec on August 20, 2020, 03:16:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
Bannon has just been indicted for fraud and money laundering

Every last one of them is a criminal

The whole Trump operation is a criminal enterprise and always has been

My thoughts and prayers are with him at this time.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MGgSh4VG/ezgif-com-video-to-gif-18.gif)

Obviously innocent until proven guilty in a court of your peers, but if morons wanted to give money to such a cause they obviously didn't need it and they deserved all they get.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 03:34:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 03:16:42 PM
SHE FALSELY ACCUSED HIM OF BEING A RACIST

You can play verbal gymnastics until doomsday, but that doesn't change what she did and how her comments were interpreted by most people who heard them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/27/harris-attacks-bidens-record-on-busing-and-working-with-segregationists.html

Directly from Biden campaign after the debate- Cristobal Alex, a senior advisor to Biden's campaign, tweeted that it was "outrageous" to attack President Barack Obama's veep "because he worked to convince" Republicans to pass civil rights legislation.

OUTRAGEOUS AND AN ATTACK

I don't know what Alex is on about, but the segregationists in question were also Democrats. There were a few of the Dixiecrats still lingering on in the 70s as the rest of the party became estranged from the south. They all worked together, not just Biden, but also even the likes of Ted Kennedy. And it wasn't just Harris criticizing Biden's comments at the time last year. FFS he even made a thing of the fact that the racist Eastland called him "son" instead of "boy"! The context of what he was talking about was the comity that existed and the ability to work together despite idealogical differences, but it was a typical Biden unscripted gaffe, not thinking through what he was saying before he said it.

None of that means that she was calling him a racist. No doubt she was trying to paint him, for her own benefit, as an out-of-touch, obsolete dinosaur, but that's not the same thing. That a campaign official would try to depict a rival's comments in the worst possible manner is not really a shock either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 03:36:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2020, 03:17:28 PM
Quote from: dec on August 20, 2020, 03:16:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
Bannon has just been indicted for fraud and money laundering

Every last one of them is a criminal

The whole Trump operation is a criminal enterprise and always has been

My thoughts and prayers are with him at this time.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MGgSh4VG/ezgif-com-video-to-gif-18.gif)

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2020, 03:40:31 PM
Some Olympic level brain (or lack of in his case) gymnastics from Mr. Anecdote / Storyteller up there

I mean - the entire exchange is online.

Maybe Youtube have worked with MSDNC and the NYT to edit this  ::) -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xb8b8KRrLg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 03:40:47 PM
Quote from: dec on August 20, 2020, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM
Why do you "detest" her based on the Kavanaugh hearings?

Who did she falsely accuse of being a racist?

Who are you going to vote now that you apparently have no choice but to not vote for Biden?

She set out to destroy a good persons character based on a complete pack of lies from Dr Ford

She accused Joe Biden of being a racist

I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but as my vote doesn't really count I may protest vote a third party candidate. (I actually like Joe and if he had picked anyone else I probably would have voted for him)

Her exact words were "I do not believe you are a racist"


Hahaha



So if I said "with all due respect, go fvck yourself" that you wouldn't be offended because I said "with all due respect first"

Believe what you guys want, but now Trump has a perfect out when Joe confronts him on race during the 3 debates (and Pence has a perfect out when Kamala confronts him as she accepted the VP nomination from someone she openly accused of being a racist)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 03:40:47 PM
Quote from: dec on August 20, 2020, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM
Why do you "detest" her based on the Kavanaugh hearings?

Who did she falsely accuse of being a racist?

Who are you going to vote now that you apparently have no choice but to not vote for Biden?

She set out to destroy a good persons character based on a complete pack of lies from Dr Ford

She accused Joe Biden of being a racist

I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but as my vote doesn't really count I may protest vote a third party candidate. (I actually like Joe and if he had picked anyone else I probably would have voted for him)

Her exact words were "I do not believe you are a racist"


Hahaha



So if I said "with all due respect, go fvck yourself" that you wouldn't be offended because I said "with all due respect first"

Believe what you guys want, but now Trump has a perfect out when Joe confronts him on race during the 3 debates (and Pence has a perfect out when Kamala confronts him as she accepted the VP nomination from someone she openly accused of being a racist)

A perfect out among those with a kindergarten-level understanding of the world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 03:45:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 03:34:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 03:16:42 PM
SHE FALSELY ACCUSED HIM OF BEING A RACIST

You can play verbal gymnastics until doomsday, but that doesn't change what she did and how her comments were interpreted by most people who heard them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/27/harris-attacks-bidens-record-on-busing-and-working-with-segregationists.html

Directly from Biden campaign after the debate- Cristobal Alex, a senior advisor to Biden's campaign, tweeted that it was "outrageous" to attack President Barack Obama's veep "because he worked to convince" Republicans to pass civil rights legislation.

OUTRAGEOUS AND AN ATTACK

I don't know what Alex is on about, but the segregationists in question were also Democrats. There were a few of the Dixiecrats still lingering on in the 70s as the rest of the party became estranged from the south. They all worked together, not just Biden, but also even the likes of Ted Kennedy. And it wasn't just Harris criticizing Biden's comments at the time last year. FFS he even made a thing of the fact that the racist Eastland called him "son" instead of "boy"! The context of what he was talking about was the comity that existed and the ability to work together despite idealogical differences, but it was a typical Biden unscripted gaffe, not thinking through what he was saying before he said it.

None of that means that she was calling him a racist. No doubt she was trying to paint him, for her own benefit, as an out-of-touch, obsolete dinosaur, but that's not the same thing. That a campaign official would try to depict a rival's comments in the worst possible manner is not really a shock either.

J70-your outdoing yourself in the propaganda department

Joes own campaign and his own wife heard what I heard and you're still denying she IMPLIED he was a racist

. So maybe she didn't say the actual words-you're a racist, but she sure as hell IMPLIED  he was, and on multiple fronts for good measure

If I'm team Trump I'm coming at him hard on this.

And that's why the MSM are in panic mode denying she IMPLIED he was a racist during the debate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 04:07:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 03:45:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 20, 2020, 03:34:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2020, 03:16:42 PM
SHE FALSELY ACCUSED HIM OF BEING A RACIST

You can play verbal gymnastics until doomsday, but that doesn't change what she did and how her comments were interpreted by most people who heard them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/27/harris-attacks-bidens-record-on-busing-and-working-with-segregationists.html

Directly from Biden campaign after the debate- Cristobal Alex, a senior advisor to Biden's campaign, tweeted that it was "outrageous" to attack President Barack Obama's veep "because he worked to convince" Republicans to pass civil rights legislation.

OUTRAGEOUS AND AN ATTACK

I don't know what Alex is on about, but the segregationists in question were also Democrats. There were a few of the Dixiecrats still lingering on in the 70s as the rest of the party became estranged from the south. They all worked together, not just Biden, but also even the likes of Ted Kennedy. And it wasn't just Harris criticizing Biden's comments at the time last year. FFS he even made a thing of the fact that the racist Eastland called him "son" instead of "boy"! The context of what he was talking about was the comity that existed and the ability to work together despite idealogical differences, but it was a typical Biden unscripted gaffe, not thinking through what he was saying before he said it.

None of that means that she was calling him a racist. No doubt she was trying to paint him, for her own benefit, as an out-of-touch, obsolete dinosaur, but that's not the same thing. That a campaign official would try to depict a rival's comments in the worst possible manner is not really a shock either.

J70-your outdoing yourself in the propaganda department

Joes own campaign and his own wife heard what I heard and you're still denying she IMPLIED he was a racist

. So maybe she didn't say the actual words-you're a racist, but she sure as hell IMPLIED  he was, and on multiple fronts for good measure

If I'm team Trump I'm coming at him hard on this.

And that's why the MSM are in panic mode denying she IMPLIED he was a racist during the debate

If you're Team Trump, you haven't got a f**king leg to stand on to "come at" Biden on the issue of race. The issues Harris was asking Biden to defend were busing and friendliness with other politicians on a personal level even when there were major, consequential ideological differences. On busing, if Trump wants to go there, he can, but I fail to see how he could, given the positions of the two parties and their bases to this day. All Biden has to do is concede that in retrospect his position was wrong. Will Trump and the GOP concede that busing was wrong? I seriously doubt it.  Will Trump denounce his racist supporters? Will he stop trying to use confederate flags and statues to rally his base? You know he won't.

On the comity thing, I've already addressed this. It was simply the way politics was done at the time. And indeed, part of the attraction of Biden is his decency and personal amiability, his ability to work across the political divide, which in direct contrast to the narcissism and utterly transactional nature of Trump's way of interacting with other people and something that many people would like to see return to DC. Neither of these are winning issues for Trump. Especially when it was the black leadership and voters of South Carolina which basically propelled Biden to the nomination in the first place. And especially when he served as VP to the first black president and now has selected the first black woman (same black woman who supposedly called him a racist) to appear on the ticket of one of the two major parties.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2020, 04:27:48 PM
QuoteIf you're Team Trump, you haven't got a f**king leg to stand on to "come at" Biden on the issue of race.

What do you mean? He's the least racist person in the world.

"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. ... I think that the guy is lazy. And it's probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It's not anything they can control."

(https://i.postimg.cc/SR781RD7/Screen-Shot-2020-08-20-at-8-26-35-AM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 04:29:38 PM
Trumpers can't understand why Biden would appoint someone to an important post after having aggressively challenged him in the primary. Trump surrounds himself with Yes men and holds grudges against anyone who ever offended his delicate sensibility. Hell, his entire presidential campaign was a response to Obama roasting him at the White House correspondents' dinner a few years back; the miserable humourless oul ballix couldn't take a joke.

Biden is the kind of politician (you know? An adult!) who doesn't mind being challenged because he's mature enough to understand that you have to be able to work with people who don't agree with absolutely everything you say. Trump can't work with anyone at all. Not even Steve "white supremacist" Bannon or John "let's invade Iraq and it'll fix all the problems of the Middle East" Bolton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 04:33:31 PM
QuoteTrump must turn over tax returns to NY prosecutors, judge rules (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-must-turn-over-tax-returns-ny-prosecutors-judge-rules-n1237451?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR2TZc09CqUfyNK1gyiPJaOlv4Awc6Fs7_nh95oaJJYGFV4V-xXnJ21hVgs)

The ruling by U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero amounted to a second loss in Trump's high-stakes court battle with Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance.

By Tom Winter and Rich Schapiro
A federal judge on Thursday denied President Donald Trump's latest attempt to quash a probe by New York prosecutors seeking his tax returns and other financial documents.

The ruling by U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero amounted to a second loss in Trump's high-stakes court battle with Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance.

Marrero had earlier rejected Trump's initial attempt to block a subpoena from Vance seeking eight years of the president's tax returns.

The Supreme Court ruled last month that the president is not immune from a grand jury subpoena while in office but said Trump could use an alternative argument to fight it.

In his 103-page ruling, Marrero rejected Trump's new argument that Vance's subpoena is "wildly broad" and was issued in "bad faith."

"At its core, it amounts to absolute immunity through a back door, an entry point through which not only a President but also potentially other persons and entities, public and private, could effectively gain cover from judicial process," Marrero wrote.

The decision moves Vance one step closer to obtaining the president's financial records. But within just a few hours of the ruling, Trump's lawyers filed an emergency motion appealing the decision and asking for a freeze on the case.

"The President respectfully disagrees with that decision and believes there is a likelihood of reversal on appeal," Trump's lawyers wrote. "But what matters most at this point is that, absent a stay, the subpoena will be enforced before the President has been afforded any appellate review of his overbreadth and bad-faith claims."

Vance's office subpoenaed Trump's accounting firm, Mazars USA, in 2019 as part of an investigation into the Trump Organization about payments made to two women who have alleged affairs with the president, which he has denied. In a court filing earlier this month, Vance's office suggested the investigation goes beyond the payments to include alleged insurance and bank fraud.

A spokesman for Vance's office declined comment.

Slap it up him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 04:34:23 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117950276_3763507933665516_8202560616516439175_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=rXTg78en3J8AX-uNOqn&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=0b90d2e2c7c9d674803cf42790b76276&oe=5F6445CB)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 04:59:03 PM
You'd think that a US president would strongly comdemn the deliberate poisoning of Russia's main opposition figure...oh wait
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 05:03:29 PM
The chaos continues. Now farmers are the latest victims of this incompetent shitshow of an administration:

QuoteThousands of chicks arrive dead to farmers amid USPS turmoil (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/thousands-of-chicks-arrive-dead-to-farmers-amid-usps-turmoil?fbclid=IwAR3EEVKCObvNoS2_Yk2Q0GChuDkfv1Ik3--fr7LzvlUiz0MkG07Lm_QmR0A)


At least 4,800 chicks shipped to Maine farmers through the U.S. Postal Service have arrived dead in recent weeks after rapid cuts hit the federal mail carrier's operations, U.S. Rep. Chellie Pingree said.

Pingree, a Maine Democrat, is raising the issue of the dead chicks and the losses farms are facing in a letter to Postmaster General Louis DeJoy and U.S. Department of Agriculture Commissioner Sonny Perdue, The Portland Press Herald reported.

Pauline Henderson, who owns Pine Tree Poultry in New Sharon, Maine, told the newspaper she was shocked last week when all of the 800 chicks sent to her from a hatchery in Pennsylvania were dead.

"Usually they arrive every three weeks like clockwork," she said. "And out of 100 birds you may have one or two that die in shipping."

Thousands of birds that moved through the Postal Service's processing center in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, were also dead, impacting several farms in Maine and New Hampshire, Henderson said.

A message seeking comment was left Thursday for the U.S. Postal Service.

"It's one more of the consequences of this disorganization, this sort of chaos they've created at the post office and nobody thought through when they were thinking of slowing down the mail," Pingree said, adding that her office has received dozens of complaints from farmers and others trying to raise a small flock of chickens in the backyard.

READ MORE: How USPS policies and the pandemic could create mail-in voting 'perfect storm'

Pingree said she isn't sure if Perdue is aware of how the changes in the Postal Service are impacting smaller poultry farmers in the U.S.

"This is a system that's always worked before and it's worked very well until these changes started being made," Pingree said.

DeJoy, a Republican donor who's the first postmaster general who did not come from the ranks of the Postal Service, took control of the agency in June and has since swiftly engineered cuts and operational changes that are disrupting mail delivery operations. In Maine, two mail-sorting machines were dismantled at the state's postal distribution hub.

He announced Tuesday he would halt some changes to mail delivery that critics blamed for widespread delays and warned could disrupt the November election, which is expected to bring a surge of mail-in ballots because of the coronavirus pandemic.

DeJoy is scheduled to testify before the Senate on Friday.

President Donald Trump made clear last week that he was blocking $25 billion in emergency aid to the Postal Service, acknowledging he wanted to curtail election mail operations, as well as a Democratic proposal to provide $3.6 billion in additional election money to the states to help process mail-in ballots.

Those funds are tangled in a broader coronavirus aid package that was approved in the House but stalled in the Senate.

The Postal Service is the only entity that ships live chicks and other small animals and has done so since 1918, according to the service's website.

"Rural Americans, including agricultural producers, disproportionately rely on USPS for their livelihoods, and it is essential that they receive reliable service," Pingree said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 20, 2020, 04:27:48 PM
QuoteIf you're Team Trump, you haven't got a f**king leg to stand on to "come at" Biden on the issue of race.

What do you mean? He's the least racist person in the world.

"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. ... I think that the guy is lazy. And it's probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It's not anything they can control."

(https://i.postimg.cc/SR781RD7/Screen-Shot-2020-08-20-at-8-26-35-AM.png)

Ah FFS you're scraping the barrel now

Didn't Bill Clinton tell Ted Kennedy that Obama should be serving them coffee

Didn't Joe imply that most Blacks can't string a coherent  together when he was praising Obama
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 05:13:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 04:59:03 PM
You'd think that a US president would strongly comdemn the deliberate poisoning of Russia's main opposition figure...oh wait

Poisoned by "very fine people."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 05:50:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 19, 2020, 05:32:24 PM
As always there's 2 sides to every story and the truth is somewhere in the middle
This is a classic example of something very stupid people say to try and appear smart

And trolls

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2020, 05:55:54 PM
I have to hand it to you J70-you have the official talking points down to a T

Joes own wife with him sitting next to her heard Harris accuse/imply/say he was a racist

Joes campaign spokesperson described her behavior towards Joe during the debate as outrageous

Chris Dodd, retired Democratic Senator and one of the people heading up Joes VP selection committee was "stunned" by her response when he asked her about it and felt it disqualified her from consideration (until a mob descended upon him)

She needs to have a better answer just than saying "it was a debate" followed by her super annoying and cringeworthy laugh. (which she repeated THREE times when asked about it last weekend)

What about -"I made a mistake. If people thought I was implying Joe was a racist that was not my intent and  to those people, I apologize"

Regardless, I think Joe and Kamala will now win in a landslide.

I just realized how much time I waste in here. Because of my job I can't discuss politics on Facebook or Twitter so this is a good release

I think I will take a break until after the election.

I wish all of you well and hope that you and your families make it through the pandemic unscathed, both physically and financially

Talk to you in November

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 20, 2020, 07:33:33 PM
We'll leave at that then so.

Peace whitey.

Although I reckon we'll pull you back in! :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 05:50:09 PM

This is a classic example of something very stupid people say to try and appear smart

And trolls

People who have been radicalized by a diet of Fox News believe the crap they ingest. The more sensible ones who watch it are still corrupted because they've been brainwashed into thinking it's okay to strike a "balance" between truth and lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 08:57:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 05:50:09 PM

This is a classic example of something very stupid people say to try and appear smart

And trolls

People who have been radicalized by a diet of Fox News believe the crap they ingest. The more sensible ones who watch it are still corrupted because they've been brainwashed into thinking it's okay to strike a "balance" between truth and lies.

Junk food for the brain, the equivalent of slabbering down a full can of aerosol cheese

Like with the rest of your body, if you just feast on crap and don't exercise the brain, it gets lazy, and can eventually seize up altogether

There are a few lads here showing all the signs of that

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 08:57:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 05:50:09 PM

This is a classic example of something very stupid people say to try and appear smart

And trolls

People who have been radicalized by a diet of Fox News believe the crap they ingest. The more sensible ones who watch it are still corrupted because they've been brainwashed into thinking it's okay to strike a "balance" between truth and lies.

Junk food for the brain, the equivalent of slabbering down a full can of aerosol cheese

Like with the rest of your body, if you just feast on crap and don't exercise the brain, it gets lazy, and can eventually seize up altogether

There are a few lads here showing all the signs of that

Indeed. It's sad too. I know people who have "lost family members" to Fox News. It poisons their minds and turns them into unrecognizable people. Almost like a cult.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 09:35:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 08:57:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 05:50:09 PM

This is a classic example of something very stupid people say to try and appear smart

And trolls

People who have been radicalized by a diet of Fox News believe the crap they ingest. The more sensible ones who watch it are still corrupted because they've been brainwashed into thinking it's okay to strike a "balance" between truth and lies.

Junk food for the brain, the equivalent of slabbering down a full can of aerosol cheese

Like with the rest of your body, if you just feast on crap and don't exercise the brain, it gets lazy, and can eventually seize up altogether

There are a few lads here showing all the signs of that

Indeed. It's sad too. I know people who have "lost family members" to Fox News. It poisons their minds and turns them into unrecognizable people. Almost like a cult.
I wouldn't say almost, it is a full blown cult, the ability to reason is completely destroyed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 11:31:55 PM
Trump shouldn't be called incompetent, because he's not, he should be called evil, because he is

https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/1295497375142653953

Miles Taylor, a former senior Trump administration official, says the president directed officials to cut wildfire relief funding to California because voters there overwhelmingly opposed him in 2016.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 11:44:51 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117930422_10221434311380580_1369847495177240743_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=jlb3l0S_7oQAX_BJrtK&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=626fae3cece913bf66f7bbdaf78b0072&oe=5F64E46C)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 11:45:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 11:31:55 PM
Trump shouldn't be called incompetent, because he's not, he should be called evil, because he is

https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/1295497375142653953

Miles Taylor, a former senior Trump administration official, says the president directed officials to cut wildfire relief funding to California because voters there overwhelmingly opposed him in 2016.

He's a bigger threat to the American people than ISIS ever was. God knows he's responsible for more American deaths.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 01:16:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 11:45:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 11:31:55 PM
Trump shouldn't be called incompetent, because he's not, he should be called evil, because he is

https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/1295497375142653953

Miles Taylor, a former senior Trump administration official, says the president directed officials to cut wildfire relief funding to California because voters there overwhelmingly opposed him in 2016.

He's a bigger threat to the American people than ISIS ever was. God knows he's responsible for more American deaths.
In threat ratio terms, if ISIS was 1, Trump would be about 100,000
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 21, 2020, 01:52:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 01:16:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 20, 2020, 11:45:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 11:31:55 PM
Trump shouldn't be called incompetent, because he's not, he should be called evil, because he is

https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/1295497375142653953

Miles Taylor, a former senior Trump administration official, says the president directed officials to cut wildfire relief funding to California because voters there overwhelmingly opposed him in 2016.
time to tune into side show joe see what Bernie and aoc told him to say tonight and if he can get through it without mangling it .

He's a bigger threat to the American people than ISIS ever was. God knows he's responsible for more American deaths.
In threat ratio terms, if ISIS was 1, Trump would be about 100,000
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 21, 2020, 04:09:11 AM
You know what I've started doing? Reading Gmac's posts in the voice of Emperor Palpatine. I just can't help it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2020, 04:24:49 AM
Like night and day listening to the 2 candidates talking today
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 21, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Who is this Miles Taylor lad doing the newsroom rounds?


I presume he worked in the Whitehouse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 21, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Who is this Miles Davis lad doing the newsroom rounds?


I presume he worked in the Whitehouse.
Dunno but I'd be happy enough if any kind of blue was put into the White House at this stage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 21, 2020, 12:01:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 21, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Who is this Miles Davis lad doing the newsroom rounds?


I presume he worked in the Whitehouse.
Dunno but I'd be happy enough if any kind of blue was put into the White House at this stage

Ha, ha... Made a bit of a typo there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 21, 2020, 03:40:26 PM
He worked in Homeland Security for a few years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 22, 2020, 12:34:43 AM
So apparently Trump is terrified of sharks. He'd better stay away from tornadoes!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on August 23, 2020, 11:09:54 PM
Big move for trump today on the back of positive internal polling apparently showing him only 5 points behind biden in NY which if true bodes well for him nationally   :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 23, 2020, 11:34:58 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on August 23, 2020, 11:09:54 PM
Big move for trump today on the back of positive internal polling apparently showing him only 5 points behind biden in NY which if true bodes well for him nationally   :o
Failure of media literacy here

Source is a Fox News pro-Trump propagandist, ie. somebody who cannot be taken seriously on anything

Trump's cronies are going to pump out nonsense propaganda about secret "internal polling" that purports to show him doing well

This is all in preparation for the big steal of the election, and mark my words, he will steal it, like Lukashenko in Belarus

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on August 23, 2020, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2020, 11:34:58 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on August 23, 2020, 11:09:54 PM
Big move for trump today on the back of positive internal polling apparently showing him only 5 points behind biden in NY which if true bodes well for him nationally   :o
Failure of media literacy here

Source is a Fox News pro-Trump propagandist, ie. somebody who cannot be taken seriously on anything

Trump's cronies are going to pump out nonsense propaganda about secret "internal polling" that purports to show him doing well

This is all in preparation for the big steal of the election, and mark my words, he will steal it, like Lukashenko in Belarus

of course he will try and steal it, everyone knows that, this news has money behind it so has to be taken seriously

imo he was a slam dunk to win before the virus, now it's a genuine 50/50 but i still expect him to win, fair or foul
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 24, 2020, 12:56:57 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on August 23, 2020, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 23, 2020, 11:34:58 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on August 23, 2020, 11:09:54 PM
Big move for trump today on the back of positive internal polling apparently showing him only 5 points behind biden in NY which if true bodes well for him nationally   :o
Failure of media literacy here

Source is a Fox News pro-Trump propagandist, ie. somebody who cannot be taken seriously on anything

Trump's cronies are going to pump out nonsense propaganda about secret "internal polling" that purports to show him doing well

This is all in preparation for the big steal of the election, and mark my words, he will steal it, like Lukashenko in Belarus

of course he will try and steal it, everyone knows that, this news has money behind it so has to be taken seriously

imo he was a slam dunk to win before the virus, now it's a genuine 50/50 but i still expect him to win, fair or foul

Biden is miles ahead and will be miles ahead come polling day, both in New York and nationally

Trump cannot win a fair election

Which is why it will be anything but fair, it'll be a fraud with falsified votes in addition to the destruction of the postal service, goon squads intimidating Democratic voters and the usual racist voter suppression

The last election was likely a fraud as well but this one certainly will be

Prepare for full fascism afterwards

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 24, 2020, 07:03:20 AM
Kellyanne Conway's on her way out to "spend time with family." Bit late for that now that her daughter has disowned her.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2020, 12:21:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 24, 2020, 07:03:20 AM
Kellyanne Conway's on her way out to "spend time with family." Bit late for that now that her daughter has disowned her.

Her husband has left The Lincoln Project too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 24, 2020, 05:49:21 PM
Just when you thought the evil conservative death cult had reached the bottom, they keep on plumbing new depths.

QuoteA fascist manifesto is gaining fans on the right, including state Sen. Roger Chamberlain. (https://minnesotareformer.com/2020/08/24/a-fascist-manifesto-is-gaining-fans-on-the-right-including-state-sen-roger-chamberlain/?fbclid=IwAR21xg72I7CVNTlgqvELP9pwajLsS5fNJaJ5vAp_DNm7fiRlxtCpuXJ3K8Q)

NOTE: This article quotes racist and sexist passages.

Since last fall, Minnesota State Sen. Roger Chamberlain, R-Lino Lakes, has taken a keen interest in a book called Bronze Age Mindset. The self-published tome has captivated many on the American right while trafficking in neo-fascism, racism and misogyny. The writer is an anonymous internet figure who goes by the pen name "Bronze Age Pervert" and has 45,000 Twitter followers.

The book argues that equality and human rights are unnatural; that most people form a vast, inferior class who will only find "solace and meaning" through "submission" — and that the proper rulers of the world are white men.

A passage claims, "Life appears at its peak not in the grass hut village ruled by nutso mammies" — using a racial slur to refer to Black women — "but in the military state."

Chamberlain, the influential chairman of the upper chamber's Taxes Committee, tweeted at the author, Bronze Age Pervert, on April 30, thanking him for an introduction to Bach's "Fugue in G-minor;" likely a reference to Pervert's podcast, which uses classical compositions as bumper music. (The podcast is even more overtly white supremacist.)

"The most obvious form of hatred in this book is misogyny," said Curtis Dozier, a Vassar College professor of classics who documents appropriations of Greco-Roman antiquity by hate groups. "His ideal of masculinity is racialized."

Dozier has analyzed the book's appropriations — and misappropriations — of ancient literature.

Dozier said the title's "Bronze Age" refers to an imagined era when a glorious warrior culture overthrew female tribal rulers and spread the Indo-European language — and male domination — from Iceland to southern India. Pervert identifies these conquerors as the Aryans, borrowing the ideas of Nazis, eugenicists and contemporary white supremacists, Dozier said.

Unlike most peddlers of hate online, however, Pervert does not disavow violence to soften the historic image of white supremacism and fascism — he glorifies it.

Chamberlain did not respond to requests for comment by phone or email.


State Sen. Roger Chamberlain, R-Lino Lakes.
Chamberlain's public politics are more in line with the mainstream GOP. He opposes taxes, abortion and voting rights for felons on state supervision.

But he also follows a number of neo-Nazis on Twitter, and seems to be a fan of the transgressive, adolescent fascism of Bronze Age Pervert.

In addition to thanking the author for introducing him to Bach's Fugue, Chamberlain has "liked" multiple Twitter posts by the author, as recently as August 16.

A common tactic fans use to promote Bronze Age Mindset on Twitter is to photograph the book in an interesting place: tucked in a snowbank, standing on a shelf, sitting on a beach. Chamberlain has "liked" several of these promotions.

While Chamberlain's appreciation goes further than most, he is not alone among prominent figures on the Minnesota right. Bronze Age Mindset earned a discussion in the flagship podcast of Powerline, a popular conservative blog. The Minnesota-based blogger John Gilmore is a champion of the book and brags he introduced it to Chamberlain. Pervert's message was further spread by the Minnesota Sun.

The writer and philosopher Noah Cicero was once considered a leading figure in the "alt-lit" movement, a literary genre that is generally progressive but has a similar eclectic, born-on-the-internet style as Bronze Age Mindset.

The ultimate message of the book, Cicero told the Reformer: "I am white, and white men should cast off civilization and become super people."

"It reads like a Marvel movie for disquiet white boys," he said. "Like a fascist superhero fantasy."

But to many on the right, Bronze Age Mindset is neither fantasy nor joke.

The book received a sympathetic 5,500 word review in the respected conservative journal Claremont Review of Books. According to the reviewer, a one-time national security aide in the Trump administration, the book briefly cracked the top 150 best selling products on Amazon. According to Politico, it has made the rounds among White House staffers.

Cicero has worked extensively with small and independent publishers for nearly two decades. He said it is unheard of for a self-published work to have this kind of reach, especially a philosophical tract. "Tell a self-published author a state senator has this book," he said, "and they would be blown away."

The book also has fringe admirers. It has been positively reviewed on several white supremacist websites, including the flagship Daily Stormer. Another wrote that Pervert "shares many of our ideas and beliefs."

Dozier, the Vassar classicist, cautions that the violence of Pervert's ethos may be a metaphor or a joke, but adds that "even in articulating violence as a metaphor, he's going further than the wider white supremacist online world."

It was likely in the Bronze Age Mindset community that Chamberlain began discovering the many neo-Nazis and white supremacists he follows on Twitter, including:

Nord Man, who brags in one post that he deflated a Somali girl's tires when she asked for gas money.
Matt the Cotton Massa, whose header photo is a flag combining American, neo-Nazi and Christian iconography.
PrairieFyre, who identifies in her bio as "volkische" — a neo-Nazi movement — and who recently tweeted a fawning video of American Nazi Party founder George Lincoln Rockwell that ends with the words, "We will win our country back."

"Matt the Cotton Massa" is one of the Twitter accounts Chamberlain follows. The flag combines American, neo-Nazi and Christian iconography.
Chamberlain also follows and retweets a number of users who post about European culture — paintings, architecture and music ostensibly created by "westerners."

Dozier said that appreciation of classic culture can be innocuous, but in the world of online racist propaganda, it is frequently repurposed to serve a narrative about the innate superiority of white people. Dozier looked at one of the accounts Chamberlain most frequently retweets and said by email that it was "pretty clearly a peddler in white supremacist dog whistles."

Bronze Age Mindset, on the other hand, does not bother with dog whistles.

In a long, meandering passage — replete with allusions to ancient Roman literature — Pervert argues that ethnic groups that "choose" slavery over mass suicide are inferior to the "master races."

If nothing else, Chamberlain's colleagues might mull over his literary taste, especially if they see him in the Capitol cafeteria. As Bronze Age Pervert writes:

"Cannibalism is the eternal way of those erased humans who submit themselves to the Venus Willendorf and all 'earth mammies,' because this faction of nature is a putrid evil dripping blood from its claws and seeking the dissolution of all higher life, spiritually and biologically, to the amorphous muck of the primeval swamp."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 25, 2020, 12:38:17 AM
Jerry Falwell Jr is resigning from Liberty University because him are the wife were getting freaky with the pool boy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 25, 2020, 01:52:22 AM
Every time I hear the name Falwell I can't help but think of Christopher Hitchens and his epic eulogy for Jerry Falwell Snr.

"If you gave Falwell an enema he could be buried in a matchbox."  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 25, 2020, 06:32:30 AM
I hear Trump Jr was high during his speech tonight. I'll watch clips of it later. I don't want the RWNJs thinking I'm adding to their ratings by watching their team in action.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on August 25, 2020, 07:19:54 AM
QuoteDonald Trump is everything I taught my children not to do in kindergarten.

;D

Boris too.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 25, 2020, 10:02:06 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 25, 2020, 06:32:30 AM
I hear Trump Jr was high during his speech tonight. I'll watch clips of it later. I don't want the RWNJs thinking I'm adding to their ratings by watching their team in action.
His girlfriend behaved like she was sniffing glue while watching videos of Hitler at Nuremberg

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1298076194219257856
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 25, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 25, 2020, 01:52:22 AM
Every time I hear the name Falwell I can't help but think of Christopher Hitchens and his epic eulogy for Jerry Falwell Snr.

"If you gave Falwell an enema he could be buried in a matchbox."  ;D

I didn't agree with him on everything, but I miss the wit and intelligence of Hitchens. We could seriously use someone with his rhetorical gifts and debating skills these days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 01:31:27 AM
Republicans have had to pull a speaker from the virtual Nuremberg freak show after she was exposed as a raving anti-Semite

That just leaves all the other ones who are still speaking, and I use the word "speak" in its loosest possible sense, doing the cocaine yell into an empty room more like
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 26, 2020, 04:32:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 01:31:27 AM
Republicans have had to pull a speaker from the virtual Nuremberg freak show after she was exposed as a raving anti-Semite

That just leaves all the other ones who are still speaking, and I use the word "speak" in its loosest possible sense, doing the cocaine yell into an empty room more like

A bit of mandatory drug testing for the "speakers" would soon thin that herd out a little more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 08:44:55 PM
A 17 year old white male murdered two protestors and shot another one in Wisconsin last night

The cops just let him waltz through the street with an AR-15 around his neck

So called white "militias" came in from out of state to create trouble

That's white terrorism enabled by white police and the white supremacist regime in the White House

Quote
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/investigators-focus-on-armed-white-vigilantes-after-2-shooting-deaths-in-kenosha-protests_n_5f465ffbc5b6cf66b2b131c2?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL1ZuNXdkRE5wd0o_YW1wPTE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABcsULAYnJXPEDlQmfe_ln_XU8ezCEYgqnr6CvS26ZIj3XDBrOqfdFXz47Yv9OQBXDLRx6yNCkso_ams5xkowqjjLxpKbe_QYBN2DrUlVIWe27yUvyapanYNot8nAcfN8Rv0JMdWOrXyxlh-fQpqZGbHVcj7hBaCJV_exKHLU1qV

Protesters clashed with police outside the Kenosha County Courthouse after a local white police officer shot Jacob Blake, a Black man, multiple times in the back with his children nearby over the weekend.

The third night of demonstrations appeared to turn deadly when heavily armed white vigilantes entered into the mix.

Investigators say they are focusing on a group of men with guns who were lined up outside some businesses a few blocks down the road from the courthouse, Beth told The New York Times. Ostensibly, the vigilantes were there to "protect" businesses from fires that had been set during previous nights of demonstrations.

A now-deleted Facebook page that appears to belong to Rittenhouse featured almost exclusively pro-police imagery and photos of the suspect carrying guns. At some point he changed his profile image to a "Blue Lives Matter" sign and held a fundraiser for a police nonprofit called "Humanizing The Badge."

Militia members may have been drawn to the city through a Facebook post by a group calling itself the Kenosha Guard, which encouraged "patriots" to "take up arms and defend our city tonight from the evil thugs," The Verge reported. It was unclear whether the suspect belonged to any militia groups.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 09:12:36 PM
Cops handing out bottles of water to white supremacist "militia"

"We appreciate you guys, we really do"

White terrorist scum

https://twitter.com/RetiredMaybe/status/1298592720362049536
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 09:22:34 PM
Appears the Milwaukee Bucks are boycotting tonight's NBA play-off game against the Orlando Magic in protest at the outrageous police shooting of Jacob Blake (which paralysed him) and last night's white terrorism in Kenosha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on August 26, 2020, 09:29:56 PM
Bucks boycott now confirmed. Raptors and Celtics met last night to discuss boycotting Game 1 of the Eastern semis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 26, 2020, 09:30:19 PM
And the RWNJs have the gall to wonder why we're calling for the police to be de-funded. What happened last night is no different from RUC collusion with loyalist death squads during the Troubles. Any Irishman who sides with the police over this needs to stop pretending to be Irish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 09:56:03 PM
Some people wonder why there's a serious problem with white supremacist terrorism in the US, and then you see who Trump invited to speak at the Republican convention, and you wonder why anybody would wonder

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200629131855-01-missouri-protests-couple-firearms-super-tease.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 10:04:54 PM
Other NBA team also refusing to play now, Orlando Magic won't accept the forfeit from Milwaukee in solidarity with them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 26, 2020, 10:56:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 10:04:54 PM
Other NBA team also refusing to play now, Orlando Magic won't accept the forfeit from Milwaukee in solidarity with them

Fair play to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 11:18:06 PM
Milwaukee Brewers major league baseball team have joined the strike
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kidder81 on August 26, 2020, 11:23:36 PM
Yeah and they will all be back playing in a few days
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 27, 2020, 12:20:58 AM
Here's white supremacist terrorist murderer Kyle Rittenhouse in the front row at one of Trump's freak shows on January 30th this year

Fascist rhetoric means innocent people die

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2020-08/26/21/asset/6d24dcf98678/sub-buzz-17455-1598479112-15.png?downsize=700%3A%2A&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 12:45:51 AM
A former police cadet, by all accounts. Fond of the "back the blue" movement. Another uniform-worshipping authoritarian sycophantic fascist conservative sc**bag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 27, 2020, 03:03:29 AM
There was a guy speaking a few minutes ago at the Republican Nuremberg freak show who believes in QAnon and plastered his social media with pictures of his visit to the holiday site of Hitler, or as this Cawthorne guy reverentially calls him, calls him, "the Fuhrer"

And he's one of the more liberal speakers



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 04:36:25 AM
"Since 9/11, white supremacists and other far-right extremists have been responsible for almost three times as many attacks on U.S. soil as Islamic terrorists, the government reported. From 2009 through 2018, the far right has been responsible for 73% of domestic extremist-related fatalities, according to a 2019 study by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). And the toll is growing. More people–49–were murdered by far-right extremists in the U.S. last year than in any other year since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995"

'We Are Being Eaten From Within.' Why America Is Losing the Battle Against White Nationalist Terrorism (https://time.com/5647304/white-nationalist-terrorism-united-states/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on August 27, 2020, 08:07:44 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 26, 2020, 11:23:36 PM
Yeah and they will all be back playing in a few days

Off course they will - once it starts costing them money.

Strange, not many of them had much to say on China when questions were asked
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Taylor on August 27, 2020, 08:07:44 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 26, 2020, 11:23:36 PM
Yeah and they will all be back playing in a few days

Off course they will - once it starts costing them money.

Strange, not many of them had much to say on China when questions were asked

It really is shocking that people are more concerned with events and social justice in their own back yard than things on the other side of the world, isn't it?

I haven't heard anything about the Dublin football team boycotting this year's All Ireland over the treatment of the Uighurs and other human rights abuses in China. A disgrace!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on August 27, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Taylor on August 27, 2020, 08:07:44 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 26, 2020, 11:23:36 PM
Yeah and they will all be back playing in a few days

Off course they will - once it starts costing them money.

Strange, not many of them had much to say on China when questions were asked

It really is shocking that people are more concerned with events and social justice in their own back yard than things on the other side of the world, isn't it?

I haven't heard anything about the Dublin football team boycotting this year's All Ireland over the treatment of the Uighurs and other human rights abuses in China. A disgrace!

Do you think if it cost them money they would still do it gallsman?

Does the GAA make much money from China.........do the NBA?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
It WILL cost them money. The entire season is legitimately in jeopardy. If it's cancelled, nobody gets paid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 27, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
In order to protect white supremacist terrorism and police brutality, and to enable the continuation of it, it's extremely important to try and discredit anybody who challenges it

It's extremely important to bait and switch and make the "issue" about anything except the real issue

Gotta take the heat off the white supremacist terrorism and police brutality, otherwise people might notice it





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on August 27, 2020, 10:07:48 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
It WILL cost them money. The entire season is legitimately in jeopardy. If it's cancelled, nobody gets paid.

Correct - IF its cancelled.

How many teams voted to cancel the season last night?

2 - the rest voted for it to continue.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 27, 2020, 10:10:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Taylor on August 27, 2020, 08:07:44 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 26, 2020, 11:23:36 PM
Yeah and they will all be back playing in a few days

Off course they will - once it starts costing them money.

Strange, not many of them had much to say on China when questions were asked
It really is shocking that people are more concerned with events and social justice in their own back yard than things on the other side of the world, isn't it?

I haven't heard anything about the Dublin football team boycotting this year's All Ireland over the treatment of the Uighurs and other human rights abuses in China. A disgrace!

If they did, the same people who are complaining about them not protesting about China would be complaining about them engaging in so called "cancel culture"

Almost like the protectors of injustice have a shameless grift for every situation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
It WILL cost them money. The entire season is legitimately in jeopardy. If it's cancelled, nobody gets paid.

Oh dear. How awful. That's nearly as bad as black people being shot to death by murderous cops.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 04:15:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 27, 2020, 10:10:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Taylor on August 27, 2020, 08:07:44 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 26, 2020, 11:23:36 PM
Yeah and they will all be back playing in a few days

Off course they will - once it starts costing them money.

Strange, not many of them had much to say on China when questions were asked
It really is shocking that people are more concerned with events and social justice in their own back yard than things on the other side of the world, isn't it?

I haven't heard anything about the Dublin football team boycotting this year's All Ireland over the treatment of the Uighurs and other human rights abuses in China. A disgrace!

If they did, the same people who are complaining about them not protesting about China would be complaining about them engaging in so called "cancel culture"

Almost like the protectors of injustice have a shameless grift for every situation

Damn right. If they didn't protest they'd be "hypocrites raking in the money" or something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
It WILL cost them money. The entire season is legitimately in jeopardy. If it's cancelled, nobody gets paid.

Oh dear. How awful. That's nearly as bad as black people being shot to death by murderous cops.

What?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 04:52:50 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
It WILL cost them money. The entire season is legitimately in jeopardy. If it's cancelled, nobody gets paid.

Oh dear. How awful. That's nearly as bad as black people being shot to death by murderous cops.

What?

This isn't directed at you, but I just find it interesting that some people will be more upset about missing a ball game than the underlying cause of the protests.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on August 27, 2020, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 04:52:50 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 27, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
It WILL cost them money. The entire season is legitimately in jeopardy. If it's cancelled, nobody gets paid.

Oh dear. How awful. That's nearly as bad as black people being shot to death by murderous cops.

What?

This isn't directed at you, but I just find it interesting that some people will be more upset about missing a ball game than the underlying cause of the protests.

Who is upset about missing a ball game?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 06:13:45 PM
Oh the deplorables will be whinging about it soon enough
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 09:12:22 PM
Yup, nothing surer:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/118554679_3993773233982814_3169563252688898545_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=2d5d41&_nc_ohc=CSBPSuiNvXEAX8C2RkG&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=1ddf740dc4d1bf283768f33d2d8450e9&oe=5F6F9452)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 27, 2020, 09:20:15 PM
Wonder if anybody sees the problem here

If you don't you're part of the problem

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgZmDsLUwAAG7wn?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgZmDsJVoAEQVnj?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2020, 10:15:08 PM
The New York Post is Fox News in print.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 12:08:31 AM
Ann Coulter said about the white supremacist terrorist murderer Kyle Rittenhouse: "I want him as my President"

San Francisco Giants world series winner Aubrey Huff called him "a national treasure"

Like, how obvious does it have to be what the problem in America is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 28, 2020, 12:31:27 AM
These people are f**king sick in the head.

US is heading for a split if this shit continues. There is no reasoning with these right wing whackjobs. There is something seriously wrong with a society that produces that type of mentality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 28, 2020, 01:29:35 AM
The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact needs to pass within the next few electoral cycles, because this period of minority rule is storing up a lot of problems. If the people can't have their say through the ballot box, they'll invariably end up using other means of making their voices heard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 09:25:12 AM
Thankfully poster five points is on hand to dismiss this report as "wacko"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report

White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police across US, report says
A former FBI agent has documented links between serving officers and racist militant activities in more than a dozen states

White supremacist groups have infiltrated US law enforcement agencies in every region of the country over the last two decades, according to a new report about the ties between police and far-right vigilante groups.

In a timely new analysis, Michael German, a former FBI special agent who has written extensively on the ways that US law enforcement have failed to respond to far-right domestic terror threats, concludes that US law enforcement officials have been tied to racist militant activities in more than a dozen states since 2000, and hundreds of police officers have been caught posting racist and bigoted social media content.

The report notes that over the years, police links to militias and white supremacist groups have been uncovered in states including Alabama, California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas, Virginia, Washington and West Virginia.

Police in Sacramento, California, in 2018 worked with neo-Nazis to pursue charges against anti-racist activists, including some who had been stabbed, according to records.

And just this summer, German writes, an Orange county sheriff's deputy and a Chicago policeman were caught wearing far-right militia logos; an Olympia, Washington, officer was photographed posing with a militia group; and Philadelphia police officers were filmed standing by while armed mobs attacked protesters and journalists.

----------

German told the Guardian on Wednesday: "Far-right militants are allowed to engage in violence and walk away while protesters are met with violent police actions." This "negligent response", he added, empowers violent groups in dangerous and potentially lethal ways: "The most violent elements within these far-right militant groups believe that their conduct is sanctioned by the government. And therefore they're much more willing to come out and engage in acts of violence against protesters."

There is growing awareness in some parts of the government about the intensifying threat of white supremacy. The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) have directly identified white supremacists as the most lethal domestic terrorist threat in the country. According to German's report, the FBI's own internal documents have directly warned that the militia groups the agency is investigating often have "active links" to law enforcement.

And yet US agencies lack a national strategy to identify white supremacist police and root out this problem, German warned. Meanwhile, popular police reform efforts to address "implicit bias" have done nothing to confront explicit racism.

The FBI did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 28, 2020, 11:33:25 AM
I watched a bit of last nights Republican convention, Trump is a very poor speaker with a drone tone rhythm that is just beyond banal. I dozed off after 10 minutes, woke up later and he was still speaking.  When taken out of his more usual staged rally with hundreds of pumped up red white and blue fanatics as a backdrop and a lit up audience, he tops the table of the most boring personality and public speakers.
The warm up act was his daughter, whiny weak and vacuous.  Then someone else from the family sounded like a banshee with a hot metal carrot stuck up her anus, no connection to the art of the political speech.
In contrast the republican convention of 1968, also set in a time of incredible social upheaval and  protest, was a masterpiece of propaganda including Nixon's speech  delivered with perfection, with all the subtle references to tick the  law and order  fears of the white suburban dwellers. Nixon narrowly  pipped his opponent Humphrey in California and Illinois and won in a landslide of electoral votes.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on August 28, 2020, 02:04:56 PM
I saw Trump "profoundly accepted" the nomination, whatever that means.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 28, 2020, 05:04:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 09:25:12 AM
Thankfully poster five points is on hand to dismiss this report as "wacko"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report

White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police across US, report says
A former FBI agent has documented links between serving officers and racist militant activities in more than a dozen states

White supremacist groups have infiltrated US law enforcement agencies in every region of the country over the last two decades, according to a new report about the ties between police and far-right vigilante groups.

In a timely new analysis, Michael German, a former FBI special agent who has written extensively on the ways that US law enforcement have failed to respond to far-right domestic terror threats, concludes that US law enforcement officials have been tied to racist militant activities in more than a dozen states since 2000, and hundreds of police officers have been caught posting racist and bigoted social media content.

The report notes that over the years, police links to militias and white supremacist groups have been uncovered in states including Alabama, California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas, Virginia, Washington and West Virginia.

Police in Sacramento, California, in 2018 worked with neo-Nazis to pursue charges against anti-racist activists, including some who had been stabbed, according to records.

And just this summer, German writes, an Orange county sheriff's deputy and a Chicago policeman were caught wearing far-right militia logos; an Olympia, Washington, officer was photographed posing with a militia group; and Philadelphia police officers were filmed standing by while armed mobs attacked protesters and journalists.

----------

German told the Guardian on Wednesday: "Far-right militants are allowed to engage in violence and walk away while protesters are met with violent police actions." This "negligent response", he added, empowers violent groups in dangerous and potentially lethal ways: "The most violent elements within these far-right militant groups believe that their conduct is sanctioned by the government. And therefore they're much more willing to come out and engage in acts of violence against protesters."

There is growing awareness in some parts of the government about the intensifying threat of white supremacy. The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) have directly identified white supremacists as the most lethal domestic terrorist threat in the country. According to German's report, the FBI's own internal documents have directly warned that the militia groups the agency is investigating often have "active links" to law enforcement.

And yet US agencies lack a national strategy to identify white supremacist police and root out this problem, German warned. Meanwhile, popular police reform efforts to address "implicit bias" have done nothing to confront explicit racism.

The FBI did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Doesn't surprise me one bit. The US law enforcement system is a honeypot that attracts all manner of violent and hateful RWNJ thugs. Want to beat up or shoot some Mexicans and terrorise their children? Join ICE and do it all legally and without any consequence. Get your kicks from deporting little old ladies who overlooked a bit of paperwork on their visa? Join the DHS where you're a law onto yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 06:46:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 28, 2020, 05:04:41 PM

Doesn't surprise me one bit. The US law enforcement system is a honeypot that attracts all manner of violent and hateful RWNJ thugs. Want to beat up or shoot some Mexicans and terrorise their children? Join ICE and do it all legally and without any consequence. Get your kicks from deporting little old ladies who overlooked a bit of paperwork on their visa? Join the DHS where you're a law onto yourself.
And when that happens the line between police, army, other so called "law enforcement" and terrorist militias blurs - as happens in classic authoritarian states

Sexual predation is another one - if you're a sexual predator, join up with ICE and abuse caged immigrants, caged children

Lavrentiy Beria, who was the head of the NKVD in Stalin's Russia, was a serial rapist

Rape is a classic war crime

That's the sort of space the US has entered now, and it will ramp up

History is what tells you that, to believe otherwise you have to be wilfully ignorant of history

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on August 28, 2020, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 28, 2020, 02:04:56 PM
I saw Trump "profoundly accepted" the nomination, whatever that means.
Is he still at the point where he can pick his VP? Is Pence a forgone conclusion or because that is the traditional way of doing it, could Trump select a new running mate, Ivanka or Donald jr?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 29, 2020, 01:20:19 AM
I think it's a done deal once the convention's over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 01, 2020, 07:10:29 PM
The RWNJs are getting bolder now. Venturing into liberal strongholds to provoke trouble that Trump can blame on Democratic mayors. I saw a video of them on the Golden Gate Bridge at the weekend, hardly a Republican stronghold, goading locals into starting something and attacking black people. Armed cops showed up and the RWNJs pointed to the black people and called out to the cops to shoot them.

We were coming back from Santa Cruz to San Jose on Saturday and saw a squad of them standing on an overpass at Los Gatos, again, hardly Republican territory, waving flags and displaying banners claiming to be something called the Silicon Valley Trump club, or something.

The Kenosha shooter was not only from out of town, but out of state. The armed RWNJ troublemakers in Portland have been going around in their pickup trucks taking pot-shots at protestors with paintball guns, pepper spray, and various weapons to provoke a response. They are almost certainly from out-of-town.

Now the current RWNJ talking point is about the violence in "Democratic controlled cities." This is clearly a coordinated attack, a thousand little Reichstag burnings. It is a transparent attempt to cause violence and then blame it on Democrats in the hope that it'll persuade enough gullible swing voters in swing states that their town will be next if they don't re-elect Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 01, 2020, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 01, 2020, 07:10:29 PM
The RWNJs are getting bolder now. Venturing into liberal strongholds to provoke trouble that Trump can blame on Democratic mayors. I saw a video of them on the Golden Gate Bridge at the weekend, hardly a Republican stronghold, goading locals into starting something and attacking black people. Armed cops showed up and the RWNJs pointed to the black people and called out to the cops to shoot them.

We were coming back from Santa Cruz to San Jose on Saturday and saw a squad of them standing on an overpass at Los Gatos, again, hardly Republican territory, waving flags and displaying banners claiming to be something called the Silicon Valley Trump club, or something.

The Kenosha shooter was not only from out of town, but out of state. The armed RWNJ troublemakers in Portland have been going around in their pickup trucks taking pot-shots at protestors with paintball guns, pepper spray, and various weapons to provoke a response. They are almost certainly from out-of-town.

Now the current RWNJ talking point is about the violence in "Democratic controlled cities." This is clearly a coordinated attack, a thousand little Reichstag burnings. It is a transparent attempt to cause violence and then blame it on Democrats in the hope that it'll persuade enough gullible swing voters in swing states that their town will be next if they don't re-elect Trump.
This is terrorism, pure and simple

The line between so called militias and so called law enforcement is getting thinner and thinner and thinner

I wonder where else this happened in history

The Black Lives Matter protests are righteous and just

White supremacists have no purpose for existence other than to inflict violence, death and chaos

Trump is openly a white supremacist

The head must be cut off the snake

He must be stopped

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 01, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?

I agree.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 01, 2020, 10:21:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?
It would be difficult not to have a great chance of "winning" when you're openly trying to rig the election

One has to assume he will succeed in doing so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on September 02, 2020, 10:32:07 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 01, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?

I agree.

The incompetency of his competitor is what gives him a great chance.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 02, 2020, 10:35:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 01, 2020, 10:21:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?
It would be difficult not to have a great chance of "winning" when you're openly trying to rig the election

One has to assume he will succeed in doing so

Getting your excuses in early Sid.  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 10:54:00 AM
Quote from: five points on September 02, 2020, 10:35:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 01, 2020, 10:21:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?
It would be difficult not to have a great chance of "winning" when you're openly trying to rig the election

One has to assume he will succeed in doing so

Getting your excuses in early Sid.  8)
Christ  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 02, 2020, 10:55:56 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 01, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?

I agree.
I don't think he will. He won 2016 in 3 swing states- Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.
The Dems won them in the 2018 midterms. Plus women hate him. And he did SFA for American blue collar workers
whose life expectancy is still falling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 02, 2020, 11:15:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 02, 2020, 10:55:56 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 01, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?

I agree.
I don't think he will. He won 2016 in 3 swing states- Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.
The Dems won them in the 2018 midterms. Plus women hate him. And he did SFA for American blue collar workers
whose life expectancy is still falling.

Did White collar worker's not dip as well? I thought I read both had decreased?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 02, 2020, 11:15:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 02, 2020, 10:55:56 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 01, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?

I agree.
I don't think he will. He won 2016 in 3 swing states- Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.
The Dems won them in the 2018 midterms. Plus women hate him. And he did SFA for American blue collar workers
whose life expectancy is still falling.

Did White collar worker's not dip as well? I thought I read both had decreased?
Trump has collapsed among college-educated whites

He's deliberately trying to whip up a race war in order to get enough working class white votes

Trying to create a race war, defining people of colour as "the other" and as a mortal threat to white people, in order to make race the defining issue on which white people vote, these are tactics that have been around since the 19th century

It's what fascists have always done

This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:54:23 PM
Lukashenko, sorry, I mean Trump, is openly encouraging voter fraud from his supporters

But still some people are pretending to be labouring under the delusion that he's not planning to steal the election


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/trump-encourages-north-carolina-residents-vote-twice-test-mail-system-n1239140
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 03, 2020, 02:56:06 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 10:07:26 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trump has a great chance of winning again?

You're not alone. The betting markets agree with you. Biden's lead in the betting odds has evaporated, it's effectively neck-and-neck. And it wasn't the convention bounce, the tide turned long before that and before Biden announced Harris as his VP pick. Some are saying it's the economy picking up. There's also news today that a Covid vaccine could be ready by late October / early November. The only silver lining I can see from this politically is that it'll shake Democrats out of any 2016-style complacency and focus their attention on the swing states, plus any down-ballot elections jobs like flipping the senate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 03, 2020, 02:59:57 AM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2 (3.5/1)
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2020, 04:56:59 AM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10 (2.9/1)
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 10/3 (3.3/1)
Biden: 9/1
Bloomberg: 12/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 06:30:02 AM
Trump: 4/6
Sanders: 3/1
Biden: 13/2 (6.5/1)
Bloomberg: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 01:35:58 AM
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 6/4
Sanders: 18/1

Quote
Trump: 4/5
Biden: 13/8 (1.6/1)
Sanders: 16/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Trump: 10/11 (1/1.1)
Biden: 13/10 (1.3/1)
Sanders: No longer in the top 4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 15/13
Sanders: 50/1
Deval Patrick: 50/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Sanders: 33/1
Deval Patrick: 33/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden: 11/10
Mike Pence: 33/1
Sanders: 40/1

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM
Trump: 1/1
Biden: 11/10

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Trump: 10/11
Biden: 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Trump 1/1
Biden 5/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)
Biden: 15/13 (1.15/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Trump: 11/10
Biden 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Biden: 1/1
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Biden: 19/20
Trump: 11/10 (1.1/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Biden: 10/11
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 12:01:16 AM
Biden: 7/8
Trump: 5/4 (1.25/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2020, 09:02:36 PM

Biden: 14/19
Trump: 6/4 (1.5/1)


Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Biden: 8/11
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 26, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 13/8 (1.625/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2020, 05:24:38 AM
Biden: 4/6
Trump: 7/4 (1.75/1)

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 30, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Biden: 3/5
Trump: 7/4

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 09:16:48 PM

Biden: 4/6
Trump: 6/4

Trump: 19/20
Biden: 1/1

There it is. Trump back in the lead. Barely in the lead, but it shouldn't be this close. We need to get this Nazi out by a landslide so we can prosecute him and his criminal family, and round up the ICE agents who participated in kidnapping and human trafficking and bring them to justice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Some things I have read on here that don't ring true for me.

1) Trump is a terrible speaker.  To me he is a brilliant speaker.  His style might be WWE smackdown but he is the only politician that if I saw was on live I would tune in for 10 minutes just to see if he goes off the prepared script and says something he wasnt supposed to before the secret service get a chance to turn his mike off.
2) He has dementia. He is in his 70s and walked slowly down a gang plank and drinks a glass of water in an unusual way but has anyone who claims he has dementia watched Biden recently?

Some things that could hurt Trump that probably won't.

1) 'Grab a woman ...' would probably hurt him but it was first used by Hillary during debates with Bill squirming in the audience.
2) Ice. Ice detention policy was started before Trump.

A couple of things which it hard to say will help or hurt him.

1) COVID. Lockdowns effect jobs.
2) Black lives matter. BLM matter but not being in favour of wrecking the place doesnt make someone racist.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoCdiCc1JoM

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on September 03, 2020, 10:03:19 AM
The comedian Katy Brand is great on Twitter, a few months back she was on Dominic Cummings case and it rang so true. Paraphrasing but she basically said - Cummings does what he likes because he is independently wealthy, he never learned anything the hard way, in jobs if someone gave off he just quit and got another from his familial friends,  he never developed as a leader or person like most people would. I think this applies X100 for Trump, he doesn't give a shit about anything or anyone because his actions have never had any consequences, he's above everybody in his mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Sorry, you're not dealing with reality

Trump is not winning, he is losing badly

Opinion polls are a broadly accurate measurement of public opinion

Trump knows full well he can't win legitimately, same as Lukashenko knew

Why on earth do you think he's destroying the postal service?

Why on earth do you think the Republicans have refused to enact any election security measures whatsoever over the last four years?

Why do you think Republicans routinely engage in massive purges of the voter rolls?

Why do you think they have squads of goons intimidating people at polling stations?

Why on earth do you think people have to queue for many hours at polling stations in Democratic areas?

Election voting machines connect to the internet and can be hacked

America's election infrastructure is appalling and ripe for a fix, it has been designed that way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 10:23:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Sorry, you're not dealing with reality

Trump is not winning, he is losing badly
So why is he favourite to win the election then?  If you don't acknowledge that right now the election is 50/50 you are not dealing in reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 03, 2020, 10:28:24 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 03, 2020, 10:03:19 AM
The comedian Katy Brand is great on Twitter, a few months back she was on Dominic Cummings case and it rang so true. Paraphrasing but she basically said - Cummings does what he likes because he is independently wealthy, he never learned anything the hard way, in jobs if someone gave off he just quit and got another from his familial friends,  he never developed as a leader or person like most people would. I think this applies X100 for Trump, he doesn't give a shit about anything or anyone because his actions have never had any consequences, he's above everybody in his mind.

Cummings isn't a leader though and has never pretended to be. He's a background strategist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 10:23:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Sorry, you're not dealing with reality

Trump is not winning, he is losing badly
So why is he favourite to win the election then?  If you don't acknowledge that right now the election is 50/50 you are not dealing in reality.
Odds are a reflection of money placed

I said months ago when Trump was 6/4 or 7/4 that he was worth a bet because the election would be fixed

Big money bettors are aware that i) the plan is to fix the result and ii) Biden must win by a huge margin to win - a four point win nationally will likely not be enough because the electoral college system massively favours Trump

Latest polls are terrible for Trump

These are swing state polls conducted after the convention

The polls are an accurate reflection of public opinion but they are not an accurate reflection of a rigged election



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 10:40:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 10:23:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Sorry, you're not dealing with reality

Trump is not winning, he is losing badly
So why is he favourite to win the election then?  If you don't acknowledge that right now the election is 50/50 you are not dealing in reality.
Odds are a reflection of money placed

I said months ago when Trump was 6/4 or 7/4 that he was worth a bet because the election would be fixed

Big money bettors are aware that i) the plan is to fix the result and ii) Biden must win by a huge margin to win - a four point win nationally will likely not be enough because the electoral college system massively favours Trump

Latest polls are terrible for Trump

These are swing state polls conducted after the convention

The polls are an accurate reflection of public opinion but they are not an accurate reflection of a rigged election
The polls cannot be relied upon as has been seen many times recently.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/2016/11/09/donald-trump-president-gamble/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 10:40:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 10:23:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Sorry, you're not dealing with reality

Trump is not winning, he is losing badly
So why is he favourite to win the election then?  If you don't acknowledge that right now the election is 50/50 you are not dealing in reality.
Odds are a reflection of money placed

I said months ago when Trump was 6/4 or 7/4 that he was worth a bet because the election would be fixed

Big money bettors are aware that i) the plan is to fix the result and ii) Biden must win by a huge margin to win - a four point win nationally will likely not be enough because the electoral college system massively favours Trump

Latest polls are terrible for Trump

These are swing state polls conducted after the convention

The polls are an accurate reflection of public opinion but they are not an accurate reflection of a rigged election
The polls cannot be relied upon as has been seen many times recently.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/2016/11/09/donald-trump-president-gamble/amp/
Contrary to popular belief, polls are a broadly accurate reflection of public opinion

Trump is a long way behind at the moment

The fix is his only chance

It's my view that the fix likely happened in 2016 as well

Anywhere Russia gets involved abroad, the aim is the fix

I expect Biden to win the popular vote by four or five million yet somehow "lose" the electoral college

Biden will be massively ahead on postal votes which do not get counted on the night

Arizona's senate election in 2018 is a good pointer to how that and other states might work out, the Republican was ahead in on the day totals but the Democrat pushed well ahead due to postal votes which are counted over the subsequent days

This is a massive angle for Trump to engage in tampering, legal interference and straight out orchestrated rioting by his goons - to stop these legitimate votes from being counted, that's why the postal service is being run into the ground as well

Clued in observers have always expected this, the Democrats are impotent in the face of it, if the Democrats are not prepared for war over this, they will definitely lose

This should be the major story in US politics but most of the media are much more interested in brain rotting horse race nonsense

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on September 03, 2020, 11:35:45 AM
Trump has it sewn up.
Seems DUPUDA are campaigning for him in Westminster while the Bunting clown is going on some kind of "Ulster Scots for Trump" campaign across the North.
It's like a story that escaped from 1st April. :o

Seriously though it says a lot about Yanks that the bag of sh1te in the White House is 50/50.
In any normal society he'd have a 5% loony fringe support if even that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 03, 2020, 11:40:48 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2020, 11:35:45 AM
Seriously though it says a lot about Yanks that the bag of sh1te in the White House is 50/50.
In any normal society he'd have a 5% loony fringe support if even that.

They say that here about every Republican US President. Yet over the decades America goes from strength to strength while our own country struggles 90% of the time, with a standard of "leaders" who wouldn't be let make the tea in top level US politics.

Funny that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:25:19 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 11:40:48 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2020, 11:35:45 AM
Seriously though it says a lot about Yanks that the bag of sh1te in the White House is 50/50.
In any normal society he'd have a 5% loony fringe support if even that.

They say that here about every Republican US President. Yet over the decades America goes from strength to strength while our own country struggles 90% of the time, with a standard of "leaders" who wouldn't be let make the tea in top level US politics.

Funny that.
Em, you do realise that Trump specifically campaigned on the notion that America was in a total mess

On that he wasn't wrong

He was entirely wrong about who is to blame - he and his ilk in the elite are to blame, robber barons who rig the game in their favour

Unsurprisingly, he has made that mess far, far worse

The US is in a mess because its politics is the most shallow of any developed country

There is almost zero actual policy debate

This is because one party and its associated media is a certifiable 1930s style fascist cult,  a nakedly white supremacist cult, and thus what is discussed flows from that

For all our faults, the standard of politician in Ireland is far higher than in America, well certainly than in the Republican party, and we should be very grateful for that

Our politicians at least are sane and half way competent

The future and hope for America is sane, moderate, intelligent social democrats like AOC who are firmly in touch with the real issues
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:31:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2020, 11:35:45 AM
Trump has it sewn up.
Seems DUPUDA are campaigning for him in Westminster while the Bunting clown is going on some kind of "Ulster Scots for Trump" campaign across the North.
It's like a story that escaped from 1st April. :o

Seriously though it says a lot about Yanks that the bag of sh1te in the White House is 50/50.
In any normal society he'd have a 5% loony fringe support if even that.
Far less

There is no difference between Trump and Gemma O'Doherty in terms of (lack of) sanity or ridiculousness

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on September 03, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Its amazing that opponents of Trump still havent realised that throwing out the lines he rigs election/hates blacks/is sexist/is corrupt etc doesnt work.
It simply makes Trump supporters double down.

If they would focus on the positives Biden brings perhaps it wouldnt be neck and neck in the race.

Just a thought
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 03, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Its amazing that opponents of Trump still havent realised that throwing out the lines he rigs election/hates blacks/is sexist is corrupt etc doesnt work.
It simply makes Trump supporters double down.

If they would focus on the positives Biden brings perhaps it wouldnt be neck and neck in the race.

Just a thought
I'm not really sure what your point is

All this is true, and just demonstrates the point that Trumpism is a cult

What you are saying is that the truth should not be told

Frankly there's very little that can be done to de-programme people who are down the rabbit hole of a cult

Trumpism is every bit as much a cult as Nazism was, and every bit as dangerous

There is no safe dose of fascism, and the logical endpoint of fascism is always genocide

The true representation of Trumpism is people like Anders Behring Breivik and the Christchurch mass murderer


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
Any electoral ticket that garners almost 63m votes in a free and fair election is by definition not a cult. Trump manages to pick up votes from huge numbers of people who dislike him or parts of his agenda. That's the opposite of what a cult does.

The Nazi comparisons and conflations are crazy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
Any electoral ticket that garners almost 63m votes in a free and fair election is by definition not a cult. Trump manages to pick up votes from huge numbers of people who dislike him or parts of his agenda. That's the opposite of what a cult does.

The Nazi comparisons and conflations are crazy.
By your definition, Nazism was not a cult, it was "centrist"

Hitler undoubtedly had the overwhelming support of the German people when he was a dictator

Please point out the differences in ideology between Trump and Gemma O'Doherty
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thewobbler on September 03, 2020, 12:53:37 PM
Ah there's Sid again.

His contribution to this thread goes:

> Poster doesn't defend Democratic Party.

>> Poster must be a Republican.

>>> Poster must support Trump.

>>>> Trump is a right wing fascist cult symbol

>>>>> Poster is therefore part of fascist cult.

>>>>>> Respond proclaiming this message.


I think I could programme a robot to do this better actually.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
Any electoral ticket that garners almost 63m votes in a free and fair election is by definition not a cult. Trump manages to pick up votes from huge numbers of people who dislike him or parts of his agenda. That's the opposite of what a cult does.

The Nazi comparisons and conflations are crazy.
By your definition, Nazism was not a cult, it was "centrist"

Please point out the differences in ideology between Trump and Gemma O'Doherty

I have never said Nazism was centrist. Prove me wrong and then we'll talk.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 01:03:29 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 03, 2020, 12:53:37 PM
Ah there's Sid again.

His contribution to this thread goes:

> Poster doesn't defend Democratic Party.

>> Poster must be a Republican.

>>> Poster must support Trump.

>>>> Trump is a right wing fascist cult symbol

>>>>> Poster is therefore part of fascist cult.

>>>>>> Respond proclaiming this message.


I think I could programme a robot to do this better actually.
You're unable to point out anything wrong about what I'm saying, you're unable to do anything other than demonstrate that you clearly despise me and what I say because I see right through the constant Spiked Online/Guido Fawkes-esque professional contrarian bullshit you peddle non-stop on this forum

As somebody once said, there's keeping an open mind and then there's keeping such an open mind that your brain falls out, as is the case with you

I'm glad you despise me, I'd very be worried if that wasn't the case!

There's zero attempt to engage on your part and you also throw in a nice straw man there - I've no love for the Democratic party, many of them are patently useless, their leadership in Congress, Pelosi and Schumer certainly are, they're milquetoast neo-liberals to their fingertips

But it's an undeniable truth that the Democratic party is the only hope for any sort of sensible electoral politics in the US, given that their opposition is indeed a fascist cult

Fascism is a binary - either you are against it, or you are for it

This was the case in the 1930s and it's the case now

There is no in between

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:07:58 PM
Guido Fawkes is fascist now. LOL.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 01:08:50 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
Any electoral ticket that garners almost 63m votes in a free and fair election is by definition not a cult. Trump manages to pick up votes from huge numbers of people who dislike him or parts of his agenda. That's the opposite of what a cult does.

The Nazi comparisons and conflations are crazy.
By your definition, Nazism was not a cult, it was "centrist"

Please point out the differences in ideology between Trump and Gemma O'Doherty

I have never said Nazism was centrist. Prove me wrong and then we'll talk.
You say that because Trump got 62 million votes that he can't be a cult

But that's simply wrong

Cults can be very large

Nazism was supported by the majority of the German people

But it was a cult, the central defining features of Nazism were hatred of the other based on race and perpetual fake victimhood

The central features of Trumpism are hatred of the other based on race and perpetual fake victimhood

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 01:08:50 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
Any electoral ticket that garners almost 63m votes in a free and fair election is by definition not a cult. Trump manages to pick up votes from huge numbers of people who dislike him or parts of his agenda. That's the opposite of what a cult does.

The Nazi comparisons and conflations are crazy.
By your definition, Nazism was not a cult, it was "centrist"

Please point out the differences in ideology between Trump and Gemma O'Doherty

I have never said Nazism was centrist. Prove me wrong and then we'll talk.
You say that because Trump got 62 million votes that he can't be a cult

But that's simply wrong

Cults can be very large

Nazism was supported by the majority of the German people

But it was a cult, the central defining features of Nazism were hatred of the other based on race and perpetual fake victimhood

The central features of Trumpism are hatred of the other based on race and perpetual fake victimhood

Cults demand significant devotion towards their leaders and icons. Yet people pull the p**s out of Trump every day of they week and they seem to survive intact. And loads of people vote for Trump even if they dislike him. They're not part of any cult.

You're some lad to go on about fake victimhood.

Now, where did I say the Nazis were "centrist" (your quote marks)?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 01:13:49 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:07:58 PM
Guido Fawkes is fascist now. LOL.
The modus operandi of Guido Fawkes and the right in general is to call people they disagree with "fascists"

But funnily enough they don't call actual fascists "fascists" - it's apparently feminists and any marginalised group which stands up for its rights who are the real Nazis

This sums up the bizarre mass psychosis which has taken over right-wing politics worldwide

And its supporters hate being called out on it


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 01:15:12 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 01:08:50 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
Any electoral ticket that garners almost 63m votes in a free and fair election is by definition not a cult. Trump manages to pick up votes from huge numbers of people who dislike him or parts of his agenda. That's the opposite of what a cult does.

The Nazi comparisons and conflations are crazy.
By your definition, Nazism was not a cult, it was "centrist"

Please point out the differences in ideology between Trump and Gemma O'Doherty

I have never said Nazism was centrist. Prove me wrong and then we'll talk.
You say that because Trump got 62 million votes that he can't be a cult

But that's simply wrong

Cults can be very large

Nazism was supported by the majority of the German people

But it was a cult, the central defining features of Nazism were hatred of the other based on race and perpetual fake victimhood

The central features of Trumpism are hatred of the other based on race and perpetual fake victimhood

Cults demand significant devotion towards their leaders and icons. Yet people pull the p**s out of Trump every day of they week and they seem to survive intact. And loads of people vote for Trump even if they dislike him. They're not part of any cult.

You're some lad to go on about fake victimhood.

Now, where did I say the Nazis were "centrist" (your quote marks)?
Your logic says the Nazis were centrist

"Cults demand significant devotion towards their leaders and icons" - well, I think you've just proved Trumpism is indeed a cult

As a straight, white male who grew up in reasonably comfortable circumstances in a semi-detached house in a reasonably peaceful estate in lower middle class/upper working class Dublin, I'm not a victim of anything, nor do I claim to be

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:24:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 01:15:12 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:13:33 PM

Cults demand significant devotion towards their leaders and icons. Yet people pull the p**s out of Trump every day of they week and they seem to survive intact. And loads of people vote for Trump even if they dislike him. They're not part of any cult.

You're some lad to go on about fake victimhood.

Now, where did I say the Nazis were "centrist" (your quote marks)?
Your logic says the Nazis were centrist

"Cults demand significant devotion towards their leaders and icons" - well, I think you've just proved Trumpism is indeed a cult

As a straight, white male who grew up in reasonably comfortable circumstances in a semi-detached house in a reasonably peaceful estate in lower middle class/upper working class Dublin, I'm not a victim of anything, nor do I claim to be

So I never said the Nazis were centrist. That was something you invented.

No politician in a democratic society can demand or achieve significant devotion from 63 million people. Your cult claim falls at the first hurdle.

Your sexuality, ethnic background, gender and home circumstances are irrelevant here. Your behaviour is not.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:24:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 01:15:12 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:13:33 PM

Cults demand significant devotion towards their leaders and icons. Yet people pull the p**s out of Trump every day of they week and they seem to survive intact. And loads of people vote for Trump even if they dislike him. They're not part of any cult.

You're some lad to go on about fake victimhood.

Now, where did I say the Nazis were "centrist" (your quote marks)?
Your logic says the Nazis were centrist

"Cults demand significant devotion towards their leaders and icons" - well, I think you've just proved Trumpism is indeed a cult

As a straight, white male who grew up in reasonably comfortable circumstances in a semi-detached house in a reasonably peaceful estate in lower middle class/upper working class Dublin, I'm not a victim of anything, nor do I claim to be

So I never said the Nazis were centrist. That was something you invented.

No politician in a democratic society can demand or achieve significant devotion from 63 million people. Your cult claim falls at the first hurdle.

Your sexuality, ethnic background, gender and home circumstances are irrelevant here. Your behaviour is not.
Your logic says the Nazis were both centrist and not a cult - you say because Trump got 62 million votes, it's not a cult

But cults can be huge - Nazism proved that

By your definition, because Nazism had mass support, it couldn't be a cult - but it was a cult, thoroughly impervious to reason

Also, the American right-wing definition of what is centrist is is where the median point of a population is in terms of political persuasion

Trump lovers constantly tell us that the American people are close to where he is in terms of ideology, that he is not extreme

Constantly we're told "you Europeans just don't get it" about America

"You Europeans just don't understand that what is centrist in Europe is considered communism in the US"

In Germany, that median was genocide, so by your definition, Nazism was centrist

Germans in the Nazi period would have told non-Germans "you just don't get it"

But non-Germans did get it, they saw that Nazism was a mortal danger

And most non-Americans get it that Trumpism is a mortal danger to America

"My behaviour"?

What on earth are you on about?

It's not my problem if you're offended at me exposing your ludicrous political views for what they are

You and others like blowhard extraordinaire the wobbler are basically asking me to be politically correct so as to not hurt your feelings - sorry, I won't be politically correct - I thought you claimed to hate political correctness anyway, but as usual with right-wing loons, that has proved to be a transparent grift on your part

You have a weird emotional investment in defending Trump and his supporters

People are entitled to draw fair conclusions about you and what sort of person you are, from that

Suffice to say the conclusions are not good
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:51:51 PM
Your talk of my "logic" is nonsense, and self-serving nonsense at that.

Yes, your behaviour on this forum of late has been disgraceful.

Meanwhile everyone else, apart from the one guy with daily (if not hourly) long rambling, bile-filled and accusatory posts, is a "blowhard".

Yeah right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:51:51 PM
Your talk of my "logic" is nonsense, and self-serving nonsense at that.

Yes, your behaviour on this forum of late has been disgraceful.

Meanwhile everyone else, apart from the one guy with daily (if not hourly) long rambling, bile-filled and accusatory posts, is a "blowhard".

Yeah right.
You claim "my behaviour" has been "disgraceful" for the simple reason that your existence as a poster on this forum is largely based around defending vile political ideologies and the disgraceful behaviour of vile politicians like Trump, while simultaneously calling for people you don't like to be imprisoned for no reason, and you're angry that I can see through that

It's pathetic fake victimhood on your part

The problem you have is that your opinions  are being forcefully challenged, you can't justify them, and you really don't like that

You really need to take a look at your own opinions, because they're undeniably extremist

Mine are moderate, sensible and morally clear, which is why nobody has been able to seriously argue against them here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 03, 2020, 02:14:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
You claim "my behaviour" has been "disgraceful" for the simple reason that your existence as a poster on this forum is largely based around defending vile political ideologies and the disgraceful behaviour of vile politicians like Trump, while simultaneously calling for people you don't like to be imprisoned for no reason, and you're angry that I can see through that

It's pathetic fake victimhood on your part

The problem you have is that your opinions  are being forcefully challenged, you can't justify them, and you really don't like that

You really need to take a look at your own opinions, because they're undeniably extremist

Quote
Mine are moderate, sensible and morally clear, which is why nobody has been able to seriously argue against them here

::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on September 03, 2020, 02:17:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 01:51:51 PM
Your talk of my "logic" is nonsense, and self-serving nonsense at that.

Yes, your behaviour on this forum of late has been disgraceful.

Meanwhile everyone else, apart from the one guy with daily (if not hourly) long rambling, bile-filled and accusatory posts, is a "blowhard".

Yeah right.
You claim "my behaviour" has been "disgraceful" for the simple reason that your existence as a poster on this forum is largely based around defending vile political ideologies and the disgraceful behaviour of vile politicians like Trump, while simultaneously calling for people you don't like to be imprisoned for no reason, and you're angry that I can see through that

It's pathetic fake victimhood on your part

The problem you have is that your opinions  are being forcefully challenged, you can't justify them, and you really don't like that

You really need to take a look at your own opinions, because they're undeniably extremist

Mine are moderate, sensible and morally clear, which is why nobody has been able to seriously argue against them here

Or anyone can be bothered to argue with
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 03, 2020, 02:34:58 PM
I'm sorry I asked the shaggin' question now about thinking Trump might win it.  ::)

Sid, we get it, you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is a fascist or a Nazi or a member of the Trumptard cult etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 03, 2020, 04:30:50 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Some things I have read on here that don't ring true for me.

1) Trump is a terrible speaker.  To me he is a brilliant speaker.  His style might be WWE smackdown but he is the only politician that if I saw was on live I would tune in for 10 minutes just to see if he goes off the prepared script and says something he wasnt supposed to before the secret service get a chance to turn his mike off.
2) He has dementia. He is in his 70s and walked slowly down a gang plank and drinks a glass of water in an unusual way but has anyone who claims he has dementia watched Biden recently?

Some things that could hurt Trump that probably won't.

1) 'Grab a woman ...' would probably hurt him but it was first used by Hillary during debates with Bill squirming in the audience.
2) Ice. Ice detention policy was started before Trump.

A couple of things which it hard to say will help or hurt him.

1) COVID. Lockdowns effect jobs.
2) Black lives matter. BLM matter but not being in favour of wrecking the place doesnt make someone racist.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoCdiCc1JoM

If they don't ring true, you may need to look into these issues a little more.

The reason the ramp/water incident at West Point was thrown in Trump's face was because his campaign made such a massive issue of Biden's supposed one-foot-in-the-nursing-home status. They also tried the same bollocks with Hillary last time out (can't remember the details, but she had a cold for a few days in late summer or something similarly trivial). If he wants to dish it out, he should expect plenty of microanalysis of his own health status in return. I expect we'll get another "healthiest human being ever!" report from his "doctor" sometime soon.

Most sensible people don't deny that lockdowns cost jobs. That is not what Trump is being judged on with respect to COVID. Similarly, current debate over indoor dining in NYC aside, it has not affected the likes of Cuomo. People understand it's a desperate time. What Trump IS being judged on is his disgraceful abdication of responsible leadership during a massive pandemic, beginning with denying its existence, all the way through undermining his own and many other public health officials, promoting conspiracy theories and quacks, bringing political pressure to bear on various aspects of the national response purely for his own, personal political benefit. That his own appalling performance has, ultimately, helped extend the outbreak and thus adversely affect the economy even further is partly why he is currently on a crusade to scare the f**k out of the citizenry about the "state" of Democratic cities. Basically anything to change the subject.

Speaking of which... BLM may or may not hurt Trump, sure. He's going all in on it saving his skin. Biden has come out and unequivocably condemned the left wing rioting and looting. He'll probably have to do so again and again over the coming weeks. Why is there no such expectation of the same from Trump? Instead he gives tacit and explicit encouragement to the far right, including outright racists, and holds up that moronic kid who killed those people in Wisconsin as some kind of hero.

ICE detention WAS started before Trump. It was not used as a political weapon by other presidents. Other presidents didn't rip wailing toddlers out of their hysterical mothers' arms and send them off f**k knows where for weeks and months. Other presidents didn't go after poor immigrants working on production lines in meat factories (same people bearing a lot of the brunt of the COVID outbreak), sweeping them up out of their lives en masse while their kids were in school.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2020, 04:30:50 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Some things I have read on here that don't ring true for me.

1) Trump is a terrible speaker.  To me he is a brilliant speaker.  His style might be WWE smackdown but he is the only politician that if I saw was on live I would tune in for 10 minutes just to see if he goes off the prepared script and says something he wasnt supposed to before the secret service get a chance to turn his mike off.
2) He has dementia. He is in his 70s and walked slowly down a gang plank and drinks a glass of water in an unusual way but has anyone who claims he has dementia watched Biden recently?

Some things that could hurt Trump that probably won't.

1) 'Grab a woman ...' would probably hurt him but it was first used by Hillary during debates with Bill squirming in the audience.
2) Ice. Ice detention policy was started before Trump.

A couple of things which it hard to say will help or hurt him.

1) COVID. Lockdowns effect jobs.
2) Black lives matter. BLM matter but not being in favour of wrecking the place doesnt make someone racist.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoCdiCc1JoM

If they don't ring true, you may need to look into these issues a little more.

The reason the ramp/water incident at West Point was thrown in Trump's face was because his campaign made such a massive issue of Biden's supposed one-foot-in-the-nursing-home status. They also tried the same bollocks with Hillary last time out (can't remember the details, but she had a cold for a few days in late summer or something similarly trivial). If he wants to dish it out, he should expect plenty of microanalysis of his own health status in return. I expect we'll get another "healthiest human being ever!" report from his "doctor" sometime soon.

Most sensible people don't deny that lockdowns cost jobs. That is not what Trump is being judged on with respect to COVID. Similarly, current debate over indoor dining in NYC aside, it has not affected the likes of Cuomo. People understand it's a desperate time. What Trump IS being judged on is his disgraceful abdication of responsible leadership during a massive pandemic, beginning with denying its existence, all the way through undermining his own and many other public health officials, promoting conspiracy theories and quacks, bringing political pressure to bear on various aspects of the national response purely for his own, personal political benefit. That his own appalling performance has, ultimately, helped extend the outbreak and thus adversely affect the economy even further is partly why he is currently on a crusade to scare the f**k out of the citizenry about the "state" of Democratic cities. Basically anything to change the subject.

Speaking of which... BLM may or may not hurt Trump, sure. He's going all in on it saving his skin. Biden has come out and unequivocably condemned the left wing rioting and looting. He'll probably have to do so again and again over the coming weeks. Why is there no such expectation of the same from Trump? Instead he gives tacit and explicit encouragement to the far right, including outright racists, and holds up that moronic kid who killed those people in Wisconsin as some kind of hero.

ICE detention WAS started before Trump. It was not used as a political weapon by other presidents. Other presidents didn't rip wailing toddlers out of their hysterical mothers' arms and send them off f**k knows where for weeks and months. Other presidents didn't go after poor immigrants working on production lines in meat factories (same people bearing a lot of the brunt of the COVID outbreak), sweeping them up out of their lives en masse while their kids were in school.
I'm not sure this is true on ICE i.e. that they were any more compassionate pre Trump.

The economy is screwed with people being turfed out of there homes.  Depending on who people blame on this will go a long way to decide the election.

https://twitter.com/KyungLahCNN/status/1301345195544502274

BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.

Biden looks a very weak candidate given his age and recent gaffs like 'I'm Jill Biden and I .. ' don't help with regard to perception of mental decline.  To me  it seems more like banking on an anyone but Trump ticket but I am not sure it will get enough people to come out and vote for him. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 03, 2020, 05:28:10 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2020, 04:30:50 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Some things I have read on here that don't ring true for me.

1) Trump is a terrible speaker.  To me he is a brilliant speaker.  His style might be WWE smackdown but he is the only politician that if I saw was on live I would tune in for 10 minutes just to see if he goes off the prepared script and says something he wasnt supposed to before the secret service get a chance to turn his mike off.
2) He has dementia. He is in his 70s and walked slowly down a gang plank and drinks a glass of water in an unusual way but has anyone who claims he has dementia watched Biden recently?

Some things that could hurt Trump that probably won't.

1) 'Grab a woman ...' would probably hurt him but it was first used by Hillary during debates with Bill squirming in the audience.
2) Ice. Ice detention policy was started before Trump.

A couple of things which it hard to say will help or hurt him.

1) COVID. Lockdowns effect jobs.
2) Black lives matter. BLM matter but not being in favour of wrecking the place doesnt make someone racist.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoCdiCc1JoM

If they don't ring true, you may need to look into these issues a little more.

The reason the ramp/water incident at West Point was thrown in Trump's face was because his campaign made such a massive issue of Biden's supposed one-foot-in-the-nursing-home status. They also tried the same bollocks with Hillary last time out (can't remember the details, but she had a cold for a few days in late summer or something similarly trivial). If he wants to dish it out, he should expect plenty of microanalysis of his own health status in return. I expect we'll get another "healthiest human being ever!" report from his "doctor" sometime soon.

Most sensible people don't deny that lockdowns cost jobs. That is not what Trump is being judged on with respect to COVID. Similarly, current debate over indoor dining in NYC aside, it has not affected the likes of Cuomo. People understand it's a desperate time. What Trump IS being judged on is his disgraceful abdication of responsible leadership during a massive pandemic, beginning with denying its existence, all the way through undermining his own and many other public health officials, promoting conspiracy theories and quacks, bringing political pressure to bear on various aspects of the national response purely for his own, personal political benefit. That his own appalling performance has, ultimately, helped extend the outbreak and thus adversely affect the economy even further is partly why he is currently on a crusade to scare the f**k out of the citizenry about the "state" of Democratic cities. Basically anything to change the subject.

Speaking of which... BLM may or may not hurt Trump, sure. He's going all in on it saving his skin. Biden has come out and unequivocably condemned the left wing rioting and looting. He'll probably have to do so again and again over the coming weeks. Why is there no such expectation of the same from Trump? Instead he gives tacit and explicit encouragement to the far right, including outright racists, and holds up that moronic kid who killed those people in Wisconsin as some kind of hero.

ICE detention WAS started before Trump. It was not used as a political weapon by other presidents. Other presidents didn't rip wailing toddlers out of their hysterical mothers' arms and send them off f**k knows where for weeks and months. Other presidents didn't go after poor immigrants working on production lines in meat factories (same people bearing a lot of the brunt of the COVID outbreak), sweeping them up out of their lives en masse while their kids were in school.
I'm not sure this is true on ICE i.e. that they were any more compassionate pre Trump.

The economy is screwed with people being turfed out of there homes.  Depending on who people blame on this will go a long way to decide the election.

https://twitter.com/KyungLahCNN/status/1301345195544502274

BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.

Biden looks a very weak candidate given his age and recent gaffs like 'I'm Jill Biden and I .. ' don't help with regard to perception of mental decline.  To me  it seems more like banking on an anyone but Trump ticket but I am not sure it will get enough people to come out and vote for him.

If you can find records of ANY other president splitting young kids from their mothers and fathers, please post it. The Central American gang-driven influx of minors at the border one of the years under Obama (2014 I think) rightfully lead to massive criticism as some of them ended up caged due to the sheer lack of available resources at the time, but no one else had the sheer lack of humanity to countenance jailing mothers and fathers while sending their small kids off to cities across the country.

BLM seems pretty clearcut to me. You can support their cause while condemning and countering the riots, whether caused by anarchists, right wing provocateurs, idiots out looting for free stuff or simple frustration. You can support the overall mission of policing while insisting that they have been found seriously wanting when it comes to training and accountability and the need for reform. Those viewpoints are not mutually exclusive and they are the view of most intelligent people. Biden needs to make it clear that that is where he stands.

As for Biden, it is absolutely a case "anyone but Trump". That is the reason Biden won the nomination. No one thinks he is the perfect candidate or that he hasn't at least a little less vigour that he did in his prime, but he won because he is a moderate centrist and a non-threatening option to the historically appalling Trump. When it comes to the debates, as I've said here before, the way Trump has defined him down, if he gets through it without drooling or pissing his trousers, he'll be well set, in as far as the debates matter.

Ultimately, this election is going to come down to how many of those people in the middle want to endure another four years of Trump and his freakshow. He knows he's got nothing, which is why he is going all in on the scary Democratic cities and their riotous minorities. Some rural farmer might not have a nearby hospital or post office to rely on or market for his crops, but at least he's not dodging bullets in a hellscape of burnt out buildings and cars like NYC! (I live in NYC BTW).   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 03, 2020, 05:28:58 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.


Only if the ref is on the opposing team or has been bribed by the opposing team.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 03, 2020, 05:32:37 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 03, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Its amazing that opponents of Trump still havent realised that throwing out the lines he rigs election/hates blacks/is sexist/is corrupt etc doesnt work.
It simply makes Trump supporters double down.

If they would focus on the positives Biden brings perhaps it wouldnt be neck and neck in the race.

Just a thought

Oh boo hoo hoo! A liberal said something mean about Trump and now I have to vote for him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 05:38:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2020, 05:28:10 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2020, 04:30:50 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Some things I have read on here that don't ring true for me.

1) Trump is a terrible speaker.  To me he is a brilliant speaker.  His style might be WWE smackdown but he is the only politician that if I saw was on live I would tune in for 10 minutes just to see if he goes off the prepared script and says something he wasnt supposed to before the secret service get a chance to turn his mike off.
2) He has dementia. He is in his 70s and walked slowly down a gang plank and drinks a glass of water in an unusual way but has anyone who claims he has dementia watched Biden recently?

Some things that could hurt Trump that probably won't.

1) 'Grab a woman ...' would probably hurt him but it was first used by Hillary during debates with Bill squirming in the audience.
2) Ice. Ice detention policy was started before Trump.

A couple of things which it hard to say will help or hurt him.

1) COVID. Lockdowns effect jobs.
2) Black lives matter. BLM matter but not being in favour of wrecking the place doesnt make someone racist.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoCdiCc1JoM

If they don't ring true, you may need to look into these issues a little more.

The reason the ramp/water incident at West Point was thrown in Trump's face was because his campaign made such a massive issue of Biden's supposed one-foot-in-the-nursing-home status. They also tried the same bollocks with Hillary last time out (can't remember the details, but she had a cold for a few days in late summer or something similarly trivial). If he wants to dish it out, he should expect plenty of microanalysis of his own health status in return. I expect we'll get another "healthiest human being ever!" report from his "doctor" sometime soon.

Most sensible people don't deny that lockdowns cost jobs. That is not what Trump is being judged on with respect to COVID. Similarly, current debate over indoor dining in NYC aside, it has not affected the likes of Cuomo. People understand it's a desperate time. What Trump IS being judged on is his disgraceful abdication of responsible leadership during a massive pandemic, beginning with denying its existence, all the way through undermining his own and many other public health officials, promoting conspiracy theories and quacks, bringing political pressure to bear on various aspects of the national response purely for his own, personal political benefit. That his own appalling performance has, ultimately, helped extend the outbreak and thus adversely affect the economy even further is partly why he is currently on a crusade to scare the f**k out of the citizenry about the "state" of Democratic cities. Basically anything to change the subject.

Speaking of which... BLM may or may not hurt Trump, sure. He's going all in on it saving his skin. Biden has come out and unequivocably condemned the left wing rioting and looting. He'll probably have to do so again and again over the coming weeks. Why is there no such expectation of the same from Trump? Instead he gives tacit and explicit encouragement to the far right, including outright racists, and holds up that moronic kid who killed those people in Wisconsin as some kind of hero.

ICE detention WAS started before Trump. It was not used as a political weapon by other presidents. Other presidents didn't rip wailing toddlers out of their hysterical mothers' arms and send them off f**k knows where for weeks and months. Other presidents didn't go after poor immigrants working on production lines in meat factories (same people bearing a lot of the brunt of the COVID outbreak), sweeping them up out of their lives en masse while their kids were in school.
I'm not sure this is true on ICE i.e. that they were any more compassionate pre Trump.

The economy is screwed with people being turfed out of there homes.  Depending on who people blame on this will go a long way to decide the election.

https://twitter.com/KyungLahCNN/status/1301345195544502274

BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.

Biden looks a very weak candidate given his age and recent gaffs like 'I'm Jill Biden and I .. ' don't help with regard to perception of mental decline.  To me  it seems more like banking on an anyone but Trump ticket but I am not sure it will get enough people to come out and vote for him.

If you can find records of ANY other president splitting young kids from their mothers and fathers, please post it. The Central American gang-driven influx of minors at the border one of the years under Obama (2014 I think) rightfully lead to massive criticism as some of them ended up caged due to the sheer lack of available resources at the time, but no one else had the sheer lack of humanity to countenance jailing mothers and fathers while sending their small kids off to cities across the country.

BLM seems pretty clearcut to me. You can support their cause while condemning and countering the riots, whether caused by anarchists, right wing provocateurs, idiots out looting for free stuff or simple frustration. You can support the overall mission of policing while insisting that they have been found seriously wanting when it comes to training and accountability and the need for reform. Those viewpoints are not mutually exclusive and they are the view of most intelligent people. Biden needs to make it clear that that is where he stands.

As for Biden, it is absolutely a case "anyone but Trump". That is the reason Biden won the nomination. No one thinks he is the perfect candidate or that he hasn't at least a little less vigour that he did in his prime, but he won because he is a moderate centrist and a non-threatening option to the historically appalling Trump. When it comes to the debates, as I've said here before, the way Trump has defined him down, if he gets through it without drooling or pissing his trousers, he'll be well set, in as far as the debates matter.

Ultimately, this election is going to come down to how many of those people in the middle want to endure another four years of Trump and his freakshow. He knows he's got nothing, which is why he is going all in on the scary Democratic cities and their riotous minorities. Some rural farmer might not have a nearby hospital or post office to rely on or market for his crops, but at least he's not dodging bullets in a hellscape of burnt out buildings and cars like NYC! (I live in NYC BTW).
Living in US you are more educated than me on ICE and exactly what has changed since Trump but splitting mothers and children up is ****** up. If Biden was going to change this he should come out and say strongly.

I would be tempted if polls keep going towards Trump to switch Biden and Harris. At the minute democrat party looks to me like no one at wheel and that they hoping to coast to win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 03, 2020, 05:39:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 03, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Its amazing that opponents of Trump still havent realised that throwing out the lines he rigs election/hates blacks/is sexist is corrupt etc doesnt work.
It simply makes Trump supporters double down.

If they would focus on the positives Biden brings perhaps it wouldnt be neck and neck in the race.

Just a thought
I'm not really sure what your point is

All this is true, and just demonstrates the point that Trumpism is a cult

What you are saying is that the truth should not be told

Frankly there's very little that can be done to de-programme people who are down the rabbit hole of a cult

Trumpism is every bit as much a cult as Nazism was, and every bit as dangerous

There is no safe dose of fascism, and the logical endpoint of fascism is always genocide

The true representation of Trumpism is people like Anders Behring Breivik and the Christchurch mass murderer

A friend told me in 2016 that he sincerely believed that Hillary would have been worse than Trump. He couldn't believe that a Trump presidency would be a bigger catastrophe. He asked if I really thought he was going to march people into gas chambers, and I said no, but a lot of people could still lose their lives. He couldn't believe what he was hearing from me.

Well here we are. If the US had done an average job of managing the pandemic, the US death toll would have been lower by 140,000. If the pandemic response team had not been fired, the outbreak might have been contained and not erupted into the shitshow that it is.

It's like 2001 all over again. I really think that if Al Gore, a man who reads his briefings and takes the job seriously,  were president in 2001 instead of the lad who had better things to do like clearing brush on his ranch while breaking records for the longest presidential vacation, 9/11 would not have happened.

Rethuglicans who get elected despite losing the popular vote have a habit of letting terrible things happen on their watch. If Trump gets in for a second term, or God forbid, one of his family gets in for a future term, then we are all in mortal danger. Nuclear weapons, pandemics, preventable ecological disasters - it's all gonna unfold under some incompetent Rethuglican presidency. They must be defeated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 03, 2020, 05:50:43 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 05:38:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2020, 05:28:10 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2020, 04:30:50 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
This is a failing strategy so the strategy now is to steal the election
If he wins it's because of cheating/fascism/.. is like a football manager yelling at the ref when they lose by 10 points. I.e. look closer to home first on why losing.

Some things I have read on here that don't ring true for me.

1) Trump is a terrible speaker.  To me he is a brilliant speaker.  His style might be WWE smackdown but he is the only politician that if I saw was on live I would tune in for 10 minutes just to see if he goes off the prepared script and says something he wasnt supposed to before the secret service get a chance to turn his mike off.
2) He has dementia. He is in his 70s and walked slowly down a gang plank and drinks a glass of water in an unusual way but has anyone who claims he has dementia watched Biden recently?

Some things that could hurt Trump that probably won't.

1) 'Grab a woman ...' would probably hurt him but it was first used by Hillary during debates with Bill squirming in the audience.
2) Ice. Ice detention policy was started before Trump.

A couple of things which it hard to say will help or hurt him.

1) COVID. Lockdowns effect jobs.
2) Black lives matter. BLM matter but not being in favour of wrecking the place doesnt make someone racist.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoCdiCc1JoM

If they don't ring true, you may need to look into these issues a little more.

The reason the ramp/water incident at West Point was thrown in Trump's face was because his campaign made such a massive issue of Biden's supposed one-foot-in-the-nursing-home status. They also tried the same bollocks with Hillary last time out (can't remember the details, but she had a cold for a few days in late summer or something similarly trivial). If he wants to dish it out, he should expect plenty of microanalysis of his own health status in return. I expect we'll get another "healthiest human being ever!" report from his "doctor" sometime soon.

Most sensible people don't deny that lockdowns cost jobs. That is not what Trump is being judged on with respect to COVID. Similarly, current debate over indoor dining in NYC aside, it has not affected the likes of Cuomo. People understand it's a desperate time. What Trump IS being judged on is his disgraceful abdication of responsible leadership during a massive pandemic, beginning with denying its existence, all the way through undermining his own and many other public health officials, promoting conspiracy theories and quacks, bringing political pressure to bear on various aspects of the national response purely for his own, personal political benefit. That his own appalling performance has, ultimately, helped extend the outbreak and thus adversely affect the economy even further is partly why he is currently on a crusade to scare the f**k out of the citizenry about the "state" of Democratic cities. Basically anything to change the subject.

Speaking of which... BLM may or may not hurt Trump, sure. He's going all in on it saving his skin. Biden has come out and unequivocably condemned the left wing rioting and looting. He'll probably have to do so again and again over the coming weeks. Why is there no such expectation of the same from Trump? Instead he gives tacit and explicit encouragement to the far right, including outright racists, and holds up that moronic kid who killed those people in Wisconsin as some kind of hero.

ICE detention WAS started before Trump. It was not used as a political weapon by other presidents. Other presidents didn't rip wailing toddlers out of their hysterical mothers' arms and send them off f**k knows where for weeks and months. Other presidents didn't go after poor immigrants working on production lines in meat factories (same people bearing a lot of the brunt of the COVID outbreak), sweeping them up out of their lives en masse while their kids were in school.
I'm not sure this is true on ICE i.e. that they were any more compassionate pre Trump.

The economy is screwed with people being turfed out of there homes.  Depending on who people blame on this will go a long way to decide the election.

https://twitter.com/KyungLahCNN/status/1301345195544502274

BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.

Biden looks a very weak candidate given his age and recent gaffs like 'I'm Jill Biden and I .. ' don't help with regard to perception of mental decline.  To me  it seems more like banking on an anyone but Trump ticket but I am not sure it will get enough people to come out and vote for him.

If you can find records of ANY other president splitting young kids from their mothers and fathers, please post it. The Central American gang-driven influx of minors at the border one of the years under Obama (2014 I think) rightfully lead to massive criticism as some of them ended up caged due to the sheer lack of available resources at the time, but no one else had the sheer lack of humanity to countenance jailing mothers and fathers while sending their small kids off to cities across the country.

BLM seems pretty clearcut to me. You can support their cause while condemning and countering the riots, whether caused by anarchists, right wing provocateurs, idiots out looting for free stuff or simple frustration. You can support the overall mission of policing while insisting that they have been found seriously wanting when it comes to training and accountability and the need for reform. Those viewpoints are not mutually exclusive and they are the view of most intelligent people. Biden needs to make it clear that that is where he stands.

As for Biden, it is absolutely a case "anyone but Trump". That is the reason Biden won the nomination. No one thinks he is the perfect candidate or that he hasn't at least a little less vigour that he did in his prime, but he won because he is a moderate centrist and a non-threatening option to the historically appalling Trump. When it comes to the debates, as I've said here before, the way Trump has defined him down, if he gets through it without drooling or pissing his trousers, he'll be well set, in as far as the debates matter.

Ultimately, this election is going to come down to how many of those people in the middle want to endure another four years of Trump and his freakshow. He knows he's got nothing, which is why he is going all in on the scary Democratic cities and their riotous minorities. Some rural farmer might not have a nearby hospital or post office to rely on or market for his crops, but at least he's not dodging bullets in a hellscape of burnt out buildings and cars like NYC! (I live in NYC BTW).
Living in US you are more educated than me on ICE and exactly what has changed since Trump but splitting mothers and children up is ****** up. If Biden was going to change this he should come out and say strongly.

I would be tempted if polls keep going towards Trump to switch Biden and Harris. At the minute democrat party looks to me like no one at wheel and that they hoping to coast to win.

Biden doesn't HAVE to say or change it unless it is still secretly in operation.

ONLY a man utterly lacking in empathy and who didn't see those poor people as actual human beings would have even countenanced such a policy in the first place.

As it happens, once it got publicized two years ago, Trump had to back down and stop the policy.

On your suggestion of switching Biden and Harris - I disagree. Biden is way more experienced, despite his history of gaffes and word salad. And, if Biden is not fit to be at the top of the ticket, how is he fit to be second? Quite a number of VPs have ended up with the main job. And that's before you even consider whether a ticket led by a black woman could win the probable 54-55% of the popular vote a Democrat will need to absolutely ensure an electoral college victory.

But I do agree that they do need to get more active and aggressive. Its not easy to do with someone like Trump who always sucks the air out of the room with his shamelessness and attention seeking and, indeed, it worked for a long time this year when Trump was floundering by himself on the public stage. But they need to be careful NOT to let him define them now that he is banking on racial fears to boost his campaign.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 11:03:04 PM
Woah, imagine if Obama had said this

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are 'Losers' and 'Suckers'

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_term=2020-09-03T21%3A44%3A35&utm_content=edit-promo

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhBbHWAXYAg3A2W?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 11:09:24 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 03, 2020, 02:34:58 PM
I'm sorry I asked the shaggin' question now about thinking Trump might win it.  ::)

Sid, we get it, you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is a fascist or a Nazi or a member of the Trumptard cult etc.
No I think fascists are fascist

But carry on with your own straw man narrative

Incidentally the right are by far the worst for shouting fascist at things they don't like, be it masks, feminists, people who protest against actual fascists

Of course then they call them communists in the next breath

Sort of sums up the total intellectual drain that is right-wing politics worldwide



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 11:10:58 PM
Quote from: five points on September 03, 2020, 02:14:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
You claim "my behaviour" has been "disgraceful" for the simple reason that your existence as a poster on this forum is largely based around defending vile political ideologies and the disgraceful behaviour of vile politicians like Trump, while simultaneously calling for people you don't like to be imprisoned for no reason, and you're angry that I can see through that

It's pathetic fake victimhood on your part

The problem you have is that your opinions  are being forcefully challenged, you can't justify them, and you really don't like that

You really need to take a look at your own opinions, because they're undeniably extremist

Quote
Mine are moderate, sensible and morally clear, which is why nobody has been able to seriously argue against them here

::)
Being against extremism is not extremism

Apparently you think it is, which is a bit mad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 11:26:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 03, 2020, 05:39:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 03, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Its amazing that opponents of Trump still havent realised that throwing out the lines he rigs election/hates blacks/is sexist is corrupt etc doesnt work.
It simply makes Trump supporters double down.

If they would focus on the positives Biden brings perhaps it wouldnt be neck and neck in the race.

Just a thought
I'm not really sure what your point is

All this is true, and just demonstrates the point that Trumpism is a cult

What you are saying is that the truth should not be told

Frankly there's very little that can be done to de-programme people who are down the rabbit hole of a cult

Trumpism is every bit as much a cult as Nazism was, and every bit as dangerous

There is no safe dose of fascism, and the logical endpoint of fascism is always genocide

The true representation of Trumpism is people like Anders Behring Breivik and the Christchurch mass murderer

A friend told me in 2016 that he sincerely believed that Hillary would have been worse than Trump. He couldn't believe that a Trump presidency would be a bigger catastrophe. I asked if I really thought he was going to march people into gas chambers, and I said no, but a lot of people could still lose their lives. He couldn't believe what he was hearing from me.

Well here we are. If the US had done an average job of managing the pandemic, the US death toll would have been lower by 140,000. If the pandemic response team had not been fired, the outbreak might have been contained and not erupted into the shitshow that it is.

It's like 2001 all over again. I really think that if Al Gore, a man who reads his briefings and takes the job seriously,  were president in 2001 instead of the lad who had better things to do like clearing brush on his ranch while breaking records for the longest presidential vacation, 9/11 would not have happened.

Rethuglicans who get elected despite losing the popular vote have a habit of letting terrible things happen on their watch. If Trump gets in for a second term, or God forbid, one of his family gets in for a future term, then we are all in mortal danger. Nuclear weapons, pandemics, preventable ecological disasters - it's all gonna unfold under some incompetent Rethuglican presidency. They must be defeated.
Sure look at the list of scandals and man made catastrophes suffered by or committed by the US over the last 50 years

Pretty much all of them under Republican presidents

Climate change is a one reason for this worldwide fascist power grab in my view, not the only one - the kleptocrats aren't stupid, they know the climate crisis is real, and they're feathering their nests so they can continue their lives of luxury when the shit hits the fan

We'll never know if 9/11 would have happened under Gore, but I'm quite certain that under him the US response would not have been the total disaster it turned out to be

The Iraq War completely ruined the US's credibility as an international actor and opened the way for forces of real evil, in Iraq, in the wider Middle East, in Russia and in the US itself

It was a disaster of epic proportions

Which Trump supported, incidentally, even though he claims otherwise, yet another lie

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 11:38:33 PM
McCain saw right through Trump

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1301641141981511681

When McCain died, Trump told senior staff, according to three sources with direct knowledge, "We're not going to support that loser's funeral." He became furious, according to witnesses, when he saw flags lowered. "What the f**k are we doing that for? Guy was a f**king loser."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:00:21 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM


BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.


Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a few broken windows but doesn't care about black people being slaughtered by cops needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:06:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 11:03:04 PM
Woah, imagine if Obama had said this

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are 'Losers' and 'Suckers'

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_term=2020-09-03T21%3A44%3A35&utm_content=edit-promo

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhBbHWAXYAg3A2W?format=jpg&name=900x900)

"Who were the good guys in this war?"

He actually asked this question about the First World War. A war that the USA participated in.

How much of a f***ing idiot does he have to be before the RWNJs wake up to the disaster that's unfolding in plain sight right in front of their very eyes?

I just don't get it. Why is Trump still looking like he might win? Why is he not relegated to the lunatic fringe? Why is this extremist stupidity going mainstream?! OMFG!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on September 04, 2020, 08:09:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:00:21 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM


BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.


Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a few broken windows but doesn't care about black people being slaughtered by cops needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
That's bs. If I went round my neighbourhood and started smashing windows and lifting TVs out of houses would that be ok? Woukd anyone who tried to stop me be or disagreed be a racist?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on September 04, 2020, 09:18:10 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 04, 2020, 08:09:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:00:21 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM


BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.


Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a few broken windows but doesn't care about black people being slaughtered by cops needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
That's bs. If I went round my neighbourhood and started smashing windows and lifting TVs out of houses would that be ok? Woukd anyone who tried to stop me be or disagreed be a racist?

Is it impossible for anyone to say....

BLM and the way some cops are behaving is a disgrace and needs stamped out.
The rioters & looters are a disgrace and is a lot more than just smashing a few windows - these also need stamped out.

It seems no one is allowed to be against police brutality and against the riots.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on September 04, 2020, 09:20:55 AM
It seems to be society. You are either for me or against me. One particular poster here sums this up really.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on September 04, 2020, 09:38:25 AM
In a normal society the likes of Trump would have at most about 5% support.
Here the "RWNJ" got at most 1% in the GE.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:00:21 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM


BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.


Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a few broken windows but doesn't care about black people being slaughtered by cops needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

This thread sums it up

Quotehttps://twitter.com/BreeNewsome/status/1287915342896009216

"I was prepared to support the humanity of Black people until I saw someone set a car on fire."

"I don't know if I can support slavery abolition because I read someone burned a field of cotton. That's going too far."

"I'm not racist, I just find it difficult to distinguish the murdering of a Black person from the breaking of a window. It's equally violent, right?"

"If you want us to respect you as human beings and equal citizens, you must plead your case before us within these parameters we have identified according to our own comfort level or else we will have no choice but to further brutalize you."
-white society

"I must witness you patiently endure my violence against you in order for me to possibly feel sympathy toward you. It's your responsibility to move my heart & mind by allowing me to do that."

This is the centuries-long dynamic of race in America.

And yet somehow, despite all the various forms of protest, white America is still majority on the side of white supremacy. Again, maybe—just maybe— the issue of enduring racism in America isn't about the method of protest against it but about the pathology of whiteness.

There are some serious DUP style attitudes here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 10:42:05 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 04, 2020, 09:18:10 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 04, 2020, 08:09:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:00:21 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM


BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.


Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a few broken windows but doesn't care about black people being slaughtered by cops needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
That's bs. If I went round my neighbourhood and started smashing windows and lifting TVs out of houses would that be ok? Woukd anyone who tried to stop me be or disagreed be a racist?

Is it impossible for anyone to say....

BLM and the way some cops are behaving is a disgrace and needs stamped out.
The rioters & looters are a disgrace and is a lot more than just smashing a few windows - these also need stamped out.

It seems no one is allowed to be against police brutality and against the riots.
"Interesting" framing

You say Black Lives Matter - all of it - is "a disgrace" and "needs stamped out"

But only some cops

The proverbial "few bad apples", I guess

A neat illustration of your pre-existing bias there

Bet you didn't say that about the RUC, mind
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies. I often use this sentiment when I am trying to negotiate a deal or a settlement. I have my truth, my opponent has their truth and somewhere in the middle is generally the truth.

The killing and persecution of black people by the police is wrong. The overreaction of police in circumstances that could be defused is wrong but the question I ask is what training is coming from above to help them deal with it?

The looting is wrong, the destruction is property is wrong, the terrorising of neighbourhoods is wrong, the question I ask is where are the community leaders on the ground trying to defuse it? 

There has been decades of problems on both sides now exploding. There is no easy answer and Trump will not solve it. Neither will Biden. I believe there is an end game playing out in US politics and we may see significant constitutional change happening over the next medium term as the 2 party and federal system is broken. I don't know what the answer will be but I believe the presidency has changed irreversibly and there will be major differences in 20 years to where we presently are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.
I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:13:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.
I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

And by cherry picking my quote you have shown exactly what I mean.

I stated in the rest of my quote that the stance being taken by the BLM movement is correct. The police are wrong. I also stated that the looting is wrong. You can believe in the rights of the BLM movement and also believe that the looting is wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:26:45 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:13:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.
I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

And by cherry picking my quote you have shown exactly what I mean.

I stated in the rest of my quote that the stance being taken by the BLM movement is correct. The police are wrong. I also stated that the looting is wrong. You can believe in the rights of the BLM movement and also believe that the looting is wrong.
There isn't a grey area here

93% of Black Lives Matter protests have been entirely peaceful

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/over-90-percent-of-protests-this-summer-were-peaceful-report-shows/ar-BB18H2sZ

The cause is righteous and just

Those opposing these protests are fighting for injustice and a white supremacist society

The problem is lack of accountability, the problem is the police, the problem is Trump, the problem is the refusal of white society to admit that America is a white supremacist state, the problem is lack of justice

Black Lives Matter protestors have been incredibly restrained and tolerant

QuoteWhite Vigilantes Have Always Had A Friend In Police
New data shows that far-right vigilantes, often with support from cops, have threatened protesters nearly 500 times since police killed George Floyd.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-vigilantes-kenosha_n_5f4822bcc5b6cf66b2b5103e

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
Sid I agree with you. The looting though is wrong.  I am not equating the looting with the BLM movement by the way. Just simply stating that it is wrong
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
Sid I agree with you. The looting though is wrong.  I am not equating the looting with the BLM movement by the way. Just simply stating that it is wrong
It is the entirely understandable reaction to 400 years of continuing oppression

A riot is the cry of the unheard

Until white America starts listening and starts acting, what on earth does it expect

The reality is that entirely peaceful protest gets you nowhere, and it will certainly get nowhere under this president who is openly on the side of white supremacist terrorism and the police murderers of unarmed black people

The Civil Rights movement in the US was never entirely peaceful - it desired confrontation, there were riots

John Hume too, like Martin Luther King, desired confrontation, he desired that the brutality of British forces be exposed for what it was

The issue is not looting, the issue is the continued killing with impunity of unarmed black people by police, the criminal justice system being a tool of mass oppression of black people, and the endemic white supremacist nature of US society

This is pretty black and white



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 04, 2020, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
Sid I agree with you. The looting though is wrong.  I am not equating the looting with the BLM movement by the way. Just simply stating that it is wrong
It is the entirely understandable reaction to 400 years of continuing oppression

A riot is the cry of the unheard

Until white America starts listening and starts acting, what on earth does it expect

The reality is that entirely peaceful protest gets you nowhere, and it will certainly get nowhere under this president who is openly on the side of white supremacist terrorism and the police murderers of unarmed black people

The Civil Rights movement in the US was never entirely peaceful - it desired confrontation, there were riots

John Hume too, like Martin Luther King, desired confrontation, he desired that the brutality of British forces be exposed for what it was

The issue is not looting, the issue is the continued killing with impunity of unarmed black people by police, the criminal justice system being a tool of mass oppression of black people, and the endemic white supremacist nature of US society

This is pretty black and white

Rioting yes. Looting no. Unfortunatley both are intertwined during occasions of civil unrest throughout the world not just the States.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 12:20:19 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 04, 2020, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
Sid I agree with you. The looting though is wrong.  I am not equating the looting with the BLM movement by the way. Just simply stating that it is wrong
It is the entirely understandable reaction to 400 years of continuing oppression

A riot is the cry of the unheard

Until white America starts listening and starts acting, what on earth does it expect

The reality is that entirely peaceful protest gets you nowhere, and it will certainly get nowhere under this president who is openly on the side of white supremacist terrorism and the police murderers of unarmed black people

The Civil Rights movement in the US was never entirely peaceful - it desired confrontation, there were riots

John Hume too, like Martin Luther King, desired confrontation, he desired that the brutality of British forces be exposed for what it was

The issue is not looting, the issue is the continued killing with impunity of unarmed black people by police, the criminal justice system being a tool of mass oppression of black people, and the endemic white supremacist nature of US society

This is pretty black and white

Rioting yes. Looting no. Unfortunatley both are intertwined during occasions of civil unrest throughout the world not just the States.

Both are the products of fundamental injustice

Anybody who focusses on them as the problem is part of the problem

The problem is the injustice - not occasional riots or looting

Focussing only on riots and looting by one side is part of the continuing, centuries long strategy of categorising criminality as inherently black and blackness as inherently criminal

Trump openly does this and the whole of Republican media does it

Republican media is not remotely interested in justice, Republican media is white supremacist

When Republicans talk about "liberty" and "freedom", they mean the liberty and freedom of whites to oppress blacks, the whole ideology was built on justifying slavery

The so called "libertarianism" of the Republican party is carte blanche for the bully to bully, it's a transparent fraud

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 04, 2020, 12:58:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 12:20:19 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 04, 2020, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
Sid I agree with you. The looting though is wrong.  I am not equating the looting with the BLM movement by the way. Just simply stating that it is wrong
It is the entirely understandable reaction to 400 years of continuing oppression

A riot is the cry of the unheard

Until white America starts listening and starts acting, what on earth does it expect

The reality is that entirely peaceful protest gets you nowhere, and it will certainly get nowhere under this president who is openly on the side of white supremacist terrorism and the police murderers of unarmed black people

The Civil Rights movement in the US was never entirely peaceful - it desired confrontation, there were riots

John Hume too, like Martin Luther King, desired confrontation, he desired that the brutality of British forces be exposed for what it was

The issue is not looting, the issue is the continued killing with impunity of unarmed black people by police, the criminal justice system being a tool of mass oppression of black people, and the endemic white supremacist nature of US society

This is pretty black and white

Rioting yes. Looting no. Unfortunatley both are intertwined during occasions of civil unrest throughout the world not just the States.

Both are the products of fundamental injustice

Anybody who focusses on them as the problem is part of the problem

The problem is the injustice - not occasional riots or looting

Focussing only on riots and looting by one side is part of the continuing, centuries long strategy of categorising criminality as inherently black and blackness as inherently criminal

Trump openly does this and the whole of Republican media does it

Republican media is not remotely interested in justice, Republican media is white supremacist

When Republicans talk about "liberty" and "freedom", they mean the liberty and freedom of whites to oppress blacks, the whole ideology was built on justifying slavery

The so called "libertarianism" of the Republican party is carte blanche for the bully to bully, it's a transparent fraud

Correct but looting will always takeaway from the message of Genuine civil unrest and be used as a weapon by the opressor, so in my view shouldn't be encouraged.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 04, 2020, 01:55:16 PM
Looting is self-defeating. Rioting obviously too. And there are enough cameras around now to publicize police over-reaction to peaceful demonstrations.

All this stuff plays out in a political landscape. Like it or not, some small independent business owner or chain franchisee and their employees are not going to be too sympathetic to people who target random businesses for arson or looting. And it gives the likes of Trump, who is probably juicing himself every time someone's store is destroyed, an easy headline and campaign football. BLM had a huge amount of goodwill on their side in the aftermath of George Floyd's death. Rioting and looting only erodes that goodwill. Whether or not you think that is justified, it is a fact.

One would hope that, absent the emergence of even more police brutality videos, that things start to settle down now given the deaths in Portland and Kenosha.

Trump will have a problem if it does settle down. COVID is about to hit the headlines again as the autumn school term starts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 04, 2020, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.
I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple
i bet Sid is on all kinds of blm , antifa platforms talking about burning it all down and other complete shite all from the comfort of mommies basement 3000 miles away .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 04, 2020, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.
I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple
i bet Sid is on all kinds of blm , antifa platforms talking about burning it all down and other complete shite all from the comfort of mommies basement 3000 miles away .
Thanks for that considered contribution

You're doing a superb job of exposing your own lack of argument
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on September 04, 2020, 03:47:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 04, 2020, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.
I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple
i bet Sid is on all kinds of blm , antifa platforms talking about burning it all down and other complete shite all from the comfort of mommies basement 3000 miles away .
Thanks for that considered contribution

You're doing a superb job of exposing your own lack of argument

Thats the pot calling the kettle black  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 03:50:50 PM
In reality this is not a close race by historical standards

Biden is well ahead in terms of actual support

But the problem here is that 538 also says that a 3% point national margin only gives Biden a 46% chance of winning the electoral college

And that's without vote falsification

Biden certainly needs to at least hold this margin steady

https://twitter.com/baseballot/status/1301535816532058112

The @FiveThirtyEight nat'l polling average with 61 days until E-Day:

2020: Biden+7.3*
2016: Clinton+3.0
2012: Obama+0.2*
2008: Obama+4.0*
2004: Bush+5.2*
2000: Gore+2.8
1996: Clinton+14.7
1992: Clinton+7.0
1988: Bush+4.4
1984: Reagan+21.3*
1980: Reagan+1.8*
1976: Carter+13.3
4:01 PM · Sep 3, 2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 03:54:38 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 04, 2020, 03:47:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 04, 2020, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.
I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple
i bet Sid is on all kinds of blm , antifa platforms talking about burning it all down and other complete shite all from the comfort of mommies basement 3000 miles away .
Thanks for that considered contribution

You're doing a superb job of exposing your own lack of argument

Thats the pot calling the kettle black  ;D
I understand the issues and give solid, reasoned arguments, if somebody has abhorrent opinions I don't spare their feelings, I don't respect stupid opinions that don't deserve any respect

That really annoys a lot of people, you're obviously among them



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:26:30 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 04, 2020, 08:09:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:00:21 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM


BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.


Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a few broken windows but doesn't care about black people being slaughtered by cops needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
That's bs. If I went round my neighbourhood and started smashing windows and lifting TVs out of houses would that be ok? Woukd anyone who tried to stop me be or disagreed be a racist?

Killing black people is not okay. Why are you so reticent about speaking up about this but are far more outspoken in your condemnation of destruction of property?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:29:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 10:42:05 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 04, 2020, 09:18:10 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 04, 2020, 08:09:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:00:21 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 03, 2020, 04:52:15 PM


BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.


Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a few broken windows but doesn't care about black people being slaughtered by cops needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
That's bs. If I went round my neighbourhood and started smashing windows and lifting TVs out of houses would that be ok? Woukd anyone who tried to stop me be or disagreed be a racist?

Is it impossible for anyone to say....

BLM and the way some cops are behaving is a disgrace and needs stamped out.
The rioters & looters are a disgrace and is a lot more than just smashing a few windows - these also need stamped out.

It seems no one is allowed to be against police brutality and against the riots.
"Interesting" framing

You say Black Lives Matter - all of it - is "a disgrace" and "needs stamped out"

But only some cops

The proverbial "few bad apples", I guess

A neat illustration of your pre-existing bias there

Bet you didn't say that about the RUC, mind

Indeed. And as I've stated before on this thread, judging the entire BLM movement by its most violent people, but not applying the same standard to the police, is the language of the oppressor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:13:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.
I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

And by cherry picking my quote you have shown exactly what I mean.

I stated in the rest of my quote that the stance being taken by the BLM movement is correct. The police are wrong. I also stated that the looting is wrong. You can believe in the rights of the BLM movement and also believe that the looting is wrong.

Windows can be repaired. Flat panel TVs can be re-stocked and claimed against insurance.

Black people cannot be resurrected after they've been killed.

I think one of these things is a more pressing problem than the other, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:33:04 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 04, 2020, 12:58:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 12:20:19 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 04, 2020, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
Sid I agree with you. The looting though is wrong.  I am not equating the looting with the BLM movement by the way. Just simply stating that it is wrong
It is the entirely understandable reaction to 400 years of continuing oppression

A riot is the cry of the unheard

Until white America starts listening and starts acting, what on earth does it expect

The reality is that entirely peaceful protest gets you nowhere, and it will certainly get nowhere under this president who is openly on the side of white supremacist terrorism and the police murderers of unarmed black people

The Civil Rights movement in the US was never entirely peaceful - it desired confrontation, there were riots

John Hume too, like Martin Luther King, desired confrontation, he desired that the brutality of British forces be exposed for what it was

The issue is not looting, the issue is the continued killing with impunity of unarmed black people by police, the criminal justice system being a tool of mass oppression of black people, and the endemic white supremacist nature of US society

This is pretty black and white

Rioting yes. Looting no. Unfortunatley both are intertwined during occasions of civil unrest throughout the world not just the States.

Both are the products of fundamental injustice

Anybody who focusses on them as the problem is part of the problem

The problem is the injustice - not occasional riots or looting

Focussing only on riots and looting by one side is part of the continuing, centuries long strategy of categorising criminality as inherently black and blackness as inherently criminal

Trump openly does this and the whole of Republican media does it

Republican media is not remotely interested in justice, Republican media is white supremacist

When Republicans talk about "liberty" and "freedom", they mean the liberty and freedom of whites to oppress blacks, the whole ideology was built on justifying slavery

The so called "libertarianism" of the Republican party is carte blanche for the bully to bully, it's a transparent fraud

Correct but looting will always takeaway from the message of Genuine civil unrest and be used as a weapon by the opressor, so in my view shouldn't be encouraged.

Those damn fenians. Always demanding their civil rights and going on marches that sometimes erupt into violence. What's it going to be like if we give them the vote?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h26_VOkBAVw/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 07:58:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 11:13:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 04, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.
I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

And by cherry picking my quote you have shown exactly what I mean.

I stated in the rest of my quote that the stance being taken by the BLM movement is correct. The police are wrong. I also stated that the looting is wrong. You can believe in the rights of the BLM movement and also believe that the looting is wrong.

Windows can be repaired. Flat panel TVs can be re-stocked and claimed against insurance.

Black people cannot be resurrected after they've been killed.

I think one of these things is a more pressing problem than the other, wouldn't you say?
Unfortunately the reality of the situation is that a hell of a lot of white people care far more about televisions and windows and sneakers (as yis call them over there) than about black lives

The furious white reaction to the Black Lives Matter protests only goes to prove how righteous, just and necessary Black Lives Matter is

It's proving the point of the protests beyond any doubt whatsoever

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 04, 2020, 08:09:11 PM
I would not judge the very necessary BLM protests by the actions of a fee in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
I would not judge the Police by the actions of a few in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 08:29:17 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 04, 2020, 08:09:11 PM
I would not judge the very necessary BLM protests by the actions of a fee in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
I would not judge the Police by the actions of a few in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
There is systematic white supremacist infiltration of police

Police unions are partisan in their support for Trump

The sheriff in Kenosha openly demonstrated his support for a white supremacist narrative about crime, and the rank and file officers openly demonstrated their support for white militias, who are white supremacist terrorists

The problem with police in the US is systematic and similar to but very likely worse than the problem with the RUC

The RUC had to be disbanded

The criminal justice system in the US is used as a tool of white supremacism

The support for white supremacism goes all the way to the top, the president is a white supremacist leading a white supremacist regime

This is not "a few bad apples", this is major problem with the system and it is deep rooted into the very fabric of the country

It's not a sustainable situation, yet forces against positive change are extremely influential

This means a major collision course

What exists in the US, like in all majority white societies, is a degree of white tolerance for people of colour

White tolerance means that whites are prepared to tolerate, and only tolerate, people of colour, as long as people of colour don't get too outspoken or "uppity"

It's the "know your place" mindset

And if so much as a window is broken in black protest, purveyors of white tolerance lose their shit altogether

White tolerance is white supremacism

Yet the current variant of white supremacism in the White House is not even white tolerance, it goes well beyond that, it's white terror





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 04, 2020, 08:41:26 PM
It was interesting to see the different reactions Trump had to two 17 year olds

One was Greta Thunberg, who is trying her best to save the world from climate catastrophe

The other was Kyle Rittenhouse, a white supremacist terrorist who murdered two people and shot another

Needless to say, Trump vilified the girl who was trying to shame governments into real action to stop the destruction of the planet, and defended the white supremacist terrorist

Trump has almost sexual fetish for death and destruction, it's very disturbing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 10:48:47 PM
(https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/09/deanna_tweet.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2020, 11:28:22 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118361956_10221430026272401_2169094588625104863_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=qYCzREg5bcgAX8VT7bE&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=61c729f6d7a871a124eef897c2b19727&oe=5F79E349)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118611795_10221430029792489_8062657140002702698_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=OBPzqeqQv4oAX_ZuwGu&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=45f16ad3b10808338e2cfb6ecf191f7e&oe=5F79660C)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118443079_10221430027512432_5726755916780985207_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=8zk3LcFj894AX_DMU-B&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=cabf28ec39afd66b3809e0bf4105b18f&oe=5F7687DE)
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118595359_10221430026392404_6308265850242675392_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=FTY2RLbZ1nMAX8Iah2h&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=b031481a280e263e1eaaeb4d84f2bed7&oe=5F768E1F)
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118514084_10221430028872466_3071291275080916585_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=xft5gV5JohAAX_GF-3I&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=8092467c02dd63f07cace16dcf39c4da&oe=5F77E828)
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118603547_10221430035192624_483759230962104692_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=OAHRvUfDVYQAX9_DjVp&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=c119033743dd4d547cb9ff7fb348b27a&oe=5F787FF6)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118540191_10221430032352553_6266952607014539508_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=BzoQDyXZTEsAX9tKcpc&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=9d895aa20c68a74786c3b4d285fb853c&oe=5F7867BD)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118516619_10221430035112622_8218732885633478978_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=Xe4LOzrZ-2kAX9YcRug&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=e7291b244dbbeea97b86a4d58d068134&oe=5F77F22F)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118681197_10221430034592609_218813994177123095_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=88t1BMo58rEAX8HnPQt&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=21613684e8973e4caa3e3ffc696f3c76&oe=5F77AF9E)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118525793_10221430033752588_4256964780456485525_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=AYXF-TcbgvUAX88gMQz&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=398b9a7e4f97b7a83b846e0ae5bc2400&oe=5F797638)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118414666_10221430030832515_1455378685946612560_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=_NMzjEcUG1sAX_C51_y&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=433bfe8b045845979cb06212b4891bf2&oe=5F79F3A4)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118481976_10221430028232450_3780930318058777397_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=24l9yAshvmwAX9Q_DXb&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=f7f3762efaa4a009efa43a07fda1d56a&oe=5F771F33)
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118473540_10221430031312527_8928992874219857566_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=sof7BkdeGioAX_e-ePb&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=4a53ef694ddc85a0d6b9c9241754bd7f&oe=5F7704E4)
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118373907_10221430034072596_3691376996610599492_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=y2CGE9hMwiAAX94jU_t&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=840aac8e3120ad21c0d972111fec19af&oe=5F769E4C)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 05, 2020, 10:48:09 AM
Utter weasel words from Trump over the Navalny poisoning, Germany and NATO are quite clear that Navalny was poisoned with a substance only available to the Russian government, the dogs on the street know what happened, and all Trump can say is "oooooh, lay off Russia, why aren't you talking about Jina" - where incidentally Trump supports the Uyghur concentration camps

Says nothing about the Russians offering prize money for killing US troops

He's sooooo badly compromised by the Russians

It's absolutely mad the way 40% of the American people now believe that true "American patriotism" is when you're being controlled and manipulated by Russia

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2020, 01:18:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 04, 2020, 08:09:11 PM
I would not judge the very necessary BLM protests by the actions of a fee in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
I would not judge the Police by the actions of a few in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.

Problem is that the police in general have a poor track record when it comes to the actions of the few in their midst. A bit like the Catholic church. It may be a minority, but the institution has protected them. The blue wall of silence is real and the fascist police unions are still trying to bully all around who question anything to do with policing. We've yet another case in Rochester NY this week going back six months where the officers involved were only suspending THIS WEEK because a video was released. And if body cams and phone technology hadn't advanced to where it currently is, BLM would never have happened.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 05, 2020, 01:35:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 05, 2020, 10:48:09 AM
Utter weasel words from Trump over the Navalny poisoning, Germany and NATO are quite clear that Navalny was poisoned with a substance only available to the Russian government, the dogs on the street know what happened, and all Trump can say is "oooooh, lay off Russia, why aren't you talking about Jina" - where incidentally Trump supports the Uyghur concentration camps

Says nothing about the Russians offering prize money for killing US troops

He's sooooo badly compromised by the Russians

It's absolutely mad the way 40% of the American people now believe that true "American patriotism" is when you're being controlled and manipulated by Russia

Yes, but none of that matters one iota to the GOP and his supporters because, you know, commie Democrats and their gays and feminists and muslims and blacks and Mexicans and environazis are going to take their guns away and destroy Murica.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 05, 2020, 05:34:08 PM
Well put J70. That's sums it up almost perfectly. Throw in life before birth "trumping" life after birth and you have them nailed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 05, 2020, 11:28:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2020, 01:18:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 04, 2020, 08:09:11 PM
I would not judge the very necessary BLM protests by the actions of a fee in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
I would not judge the Police by the actions of a few in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.

Problem is that the police in general have a poor track record when it comes to the actions of the few in their midst. A bit like the Catholic church. It may be a minority, but the institution has protected them. The blue wall of silence is real and the fascist police unions are still trying to bully all around who question anything to do with policing. We've yet another case in Rochester NY this week going back six months where the officers involved were only suspending THIS WEEK because a video was released. And if body cams and phone technology hadn't advanced to where it currently is, BLM would never have happened.
Police do not have a good track record in cleaning up their act. The blue wall of silence is still there and there do not appear to be legitimate efforts to break it down. That does not mean unacceptable behaviour from the very small minority using BLM as a cover for looting should not be called out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2020, 12:21:06 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 05, 2020, 11:28:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2020, 01:18:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 04, 2020, 08:09:11 PM
I would not judge the very necessary BLM protests by the actions of a fee in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
I would not judge the Police by the actions of a few in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.

Problem is that the police in general have a poor track record when it comes to the actions of the few in their midst. A bit like the Catholic church. It may be a minority, but the institution has protected them. The blue wall of silence is real and the fascist police unions are still trying to bully all around who question anything to do with policing. We've yet another case in Rochester NY this week going back six months where the officers involved were only suspending THIS WEEK because a video was released. And if body cams and phone technology hadn't advanced to where it currently is, BLM would never have happened.
Police do not have a good track record in cleaning up their act. The blue wall of silence is still there and there do not appear to be legitimate efforts to break it down. That does not mean unacceptable behaviour from the very small minority using BLM as a cover for looting should not be called out.

Of course it deserves to be called out.

But the police are an official, powerful state institution, supposedly representative of and accountable to the citizenry, not a loose coalition of activists or their hangers-on/co-opters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 06, 2020, 12:49:18 AM
Whatever side of politics you fall under the idea that Nancy Pelosi can flout rules to get her hair done while scolding regular folk is a pretty bad optic. Would remind you of a bunch of lads going to play golf in Galway.

Phil Hogan could have taken a leaf from her book on how to deny and shift blame. The salon owes HER an apology!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBTaRKH7bzQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2020, 12:59:56 AM
Quote from: Roesider on September 06, 2020, 12:49:18 AM
Whatever side of politics you fall under the idea that Nancy Pelosi can flout rules to get her hair done while scolding regular folk is a pretty bad optic. Would remind you of a bunch of lads going to play golf in Galway.

Phil Hogan could have taken a leaf from her book on how to deny and shift blame. The salon owes HER an apology!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBTaRKH7bzQ

Yes, she got caught red-handed.

Whether or not the salon owner set it up and has been flouting the rules herself all along, utterly stupid on Pelosi's part.

Nowhere near as embarrassing as the Dear Leader getting caught once again disparaging dead and injured troops and the bootlickers falling over themselves to defend him, mind you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 07, 2020, 01:57:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2020, 12:21:06 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 05, 2020, 11:28:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 05, 2020, 01:18:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 04, 2020, 08:09:11 PM
I would not judge the very necessary BLM protests by the actions of a fee in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
I would not judge the Police by the actions of a few in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.

Problem is that the police in general have a poor track record when it comes to the actions of the few in their midst. A bit like the Catholic church. It may be a minority, but the institution has protected them. The blue wall of silence is real and the fascist police unions are still trying to bully all around who question anything to do with policing. We've yet another case in Rochester NY this week going back six months where the officers involved were only suspending THIS WEEK because a video was released. And if body cams and phone technology hadn't advanced to where it currently is, BLM would never have happened.
Police do not have a good track record in cleaning up their act. The blue wall of silence is still there and there do not appear to be legitimate efforts to break it down. That does not mean unacceptable behaviour from the very small minority using BLM as a cover for looting should not be called out.

Of course it deserves to be called out.

But the police are an official, powerful state institution, supposedly representative of and accountable to the citizenry, not a loose coalition of activists or their hangers-on/co-opters.
Indeed. If you have one bad cop and 99 good cops, but the 99 good cops circle the wagons and defend the bad one, you've got 100 bad cops.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 09, 2020, 07:46:02 PM
So the arsehole in chief is now on tape saying he downplayed the severity of the COVID pandemic.

(https://i.postimg.cc/TwSsbkMV/Screen-Shot-2020-09-09-at-11-45-24-AM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 09, 2020, 11:20:03 PM
Have to say its very coincidental that Trump gets nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize just as hes been trying to say he is a peacetime president to the electorate and that Joe Biden is a warmonger. What timing that was. Whats the chances of him winning it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 09, 2020, 11:32:46 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 09, 2020, 11:20:03 PM
Have to say its very coincidental that Trump gets nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize just as hes been trying to say he is a peacetime president to the electorate and that Joe Biden is a warmonger. What timing that was. Whats the chances of him winning it?

If Obama can win it anything is possible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 10, 2020, 12:10:40 AM
Anyone can be nominated for it. This is the second time he's been nominated for it - and by the same person.

A far-right Norwegian MP who is anti-immigration, islamaphobic and a climate change denier.  He's also part of the same party that terrorist Anders Breivik was part of.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 10, 2020, 04:41:39 AM
Trump: Caravan! Antifa! Cities are war zones! They're coming to take your guns! No more Christmas! Illegals are voting in the millions! Mexicans are rapists! China! Deep state!

Also Trump: I didn't want to cause a panic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on September 10, 2020, 10:10:28 AM
13 year old boy who has Aspergers syndrome shot multiple times on september 4th in Salt Lake City by police. The young fella was having a mental eposide and was running from police. This is shocking :(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 11:28:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 10, 2020, 04:41:39 AM
Trump: Caravan! Antifa! Cities are war zones! They're coming to take your guns! No more Christmas! Illegals are voting in the millions! Mexicans are rapists! China! Deep state!

Also Trump: I didn't want to cause a panic.

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 09, 2020, 11:20:03 PM
Have to say its very coincidental that Trump gets nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize just as hes been trying to say he is a peacetime president to the electorate and that Joe Biden is a warmonger. What timing that was. Whats the chances of him winning it?

Slim to none.

This is a man who admires and wants to be a strongman dictator. A man who refuses to condemn the actions of such men. A man who refuses to disavow the support of racists, who is running for re-election on a platform pretty much consisting of trying to scare the f**k out of white voters about the "threat" of minorities and who ran a policy of ripping toddlers from their mothers' arms and shipping them off across the country in order to try to intimidate illegal immigrants, including asylum seekers. A man who has targeted people for exclusion based solely on their religion.

Someone else mentioned Obama winning it.

No doubt that was extremely premature at the time and Obama was, I would imagine, embarrassed about it, but at least he was preaching a message of inclusion and his election did represent a significant milestone in US history in an aspect of life that would come under the umbrella of this prize.

There is simply nothing about Trump, either the man or the president, that warrants consideration for the Peace Prize.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on September 10, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Would you have thought he'd have been nominated though >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
at least he was preaching a message of inclusion

... while going on in the next 8 years to launch ten times more air strikes on foreign targets than GW Bush did during his 8 years.

Some "inclusion" that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:22:01 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
at least he was preaching a message of inclusion

... while going on in the next 8 years to launch ten times more air strikes on foreign targets than GW Bush did during his 8 years.

Some "inclusion" that.

Maybe so.

But on the one hand we have Obama, at the time, following up on his campaign rhetoric by going on his "apology tour", acknowledging the less-than-stellar history of US foreign policy, sending Fox News and the right apoplectic, while Trump begins his presidency with a Muslim ban and continues on right down that road of white grievance politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 12:42:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:22:01 PM
But on the one hand we have Obama, at the time, following up on his campaign rhetoric by going on his "apology tour", acknowledging the less-than-stellar history of US foreign policy, sending Fox News and the right apoplectic, while Trump begins his presidency with a Muslim ban and continues on right down that road of white grievance politics.

So apologies and rhetoric count for more than bombs dropped on civilians? Wow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 10, 2020, 01:12:54 PM
Gonna be some amount of exploding heads in here if Trump wins in November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 01:42:16 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 12:42:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:22:01 PM
But on the one hand we have Obama, at the time, following up on his campaign rhetoric by going on his "apology tour", acknowledging the less-than-stellar history of US foreign policy, sending Fox News and the right apoplectic, while Trump begins his presidency with a Muslim ban and continues on right down that road of white grievance politics.

So apologies and rhetoric count for more than bombs dropped on civilians? Wow.

Where did I say that?

I said originally that the prize Obama received was extremely premature. It was basically based on rhetoric, not action.

Trump, on the other hand, has years of rhetoric AND four years of policy against him.

I'm sure there's plenty Obama would do differently in terms of Arab spring and Syria/Iraq/ISIS if he had to do it again. Not that the right has any credibility whatsoever or grounds on which to criticize  him. They gave him plenty of shit for not being tough enough on that front.

That some of them, including Fox News heads, would now be trying to criticize Joe Biden as a warmonger is simply hilarious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 10, 2020, 01:12:54 PM
Gonna be some amount of exploding heads in here if Trump wins in November.

Yours should be exploding too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 01:47:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 01:42:16 PM
Where did I say that?

Here

Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:22:01 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
at least he was preaching a message of inclusion

... while going on in the next 8 years to launch ten times more air strikes on foreign targets than GW Bush did during his 8 years.

Some "inclusion" that.

Maybe so.

But on the one hand we have Obama, at the time, following up on his campaign rhetoric by going on his "apology tour", acknowledging the less-than-stellar history of US foreign policy, sending Fox News and the right apoplectic, while Trump begins his presidency with a Muslim ban and continues on right down that road of white grievance politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 02:03:14 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 01:47:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 01:42:16 PM
Where did I say that?

Here

Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:22:01 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
at least he was preaching a message of inclusion

... while going on in the next 8 years to launch ten times more air strikes on foreign targets than GW Bush did during his 8 years.

Some "inclusion" that.

Maybe so.

But on the one hand we have Obama, at the time, following up on his campaign rhetoric by going on his "apology tour", acknowledging the less-than-stellar history of US foreign policy, sending Fox News and the right apoplectic, while Trump begins his presidency with a Muslim ban and continues on right down that road of white grievance politics.

I don't know about you, but when I'm conversing with someone, one post usually leads to/from and is connected to the other ones in the exchange.

The premise of the post you quoted was the previous one where I said the award was "extremely premature".

At no point did I justify the award. I said "at least" he had something going for him, even if it was just rhetoric, whereas Trump has absolutely nothing going for him.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 02:11:44 PM
Nobody contested your "extremely premature" observation. 

Then you followed up my "(he went on to) launch ten times more airstrikes than Bush" comment with stuff about rhetoric and an apology.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 02:25:36 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 02:11:44 PM
Nobody contested your "extremely premature" observation. 

Then you followed up my "(he went on to) launch ten times more airstrikes than Bush" comment with stuff about rhetoric and an apology.

So then your comment on Obama and air strikes had, what, exactly, to do with the conversation on the Nobel Prize?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 02:39:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 02:25:36 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 02:11:44 PM
Nobody contested your "extremely premature" observation. 

Then you followed up my "(he went on to) launch ten times more airstrikes than Bush" comment with stuff about rhetoric and an apology.

So then your comment on Obama and air strikes had, what, exactly, to do with the conversation on the Nobel Prize?

It was a direct rebuttal to your "There is simply nothing about Trump, either the man or the president, that warrants consideration for the Peace Prize" comment, after your defence of Obama and his record.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 02:39:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 02:25:36 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 02:11:44 PM
Nobody contested your "extremely premature" observation. 

Then you followed up my "(he went on to) launch ten times more airstrikes than Bush" comment with stuff about rhetoric and an apology.

So then your comment on Obama and air strikes had, what, exactly, to do with the conversation on the Nobel Prize?

It was a direct rebuttal to your "There is simply nothing about Trump, either the man or the president, that warrants consideration for the Peace Prize" comment, after your defence of Obama and his record.

I stand by the comment on Trump. There IS nothing to support nominating him.

I certainly didn't justify Obama's receipt of the award nor did I offer much of a defense of him and his record on foreign policy either.

So unless you are going to argue that Trump IS worthy of the nomination or even at least consideration, I'm not sure what we are arguing about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 03:08:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 02:56:02 PM
So unless you are going to argue that Trump IS worthy of the nomination or even at least consideration, I'm not sure what we are arguing about.

There are several. Being the first non-warmonger US President in a generation is quite a big thing.

But you are right. Rhetoric and virtue signalling is what wins Nobel Peace Prizes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 03:08:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 02:56:02 PM
So unless you are going to argue that Trump IS worthy of the nomination or even at least consideration, I'm not sure what we are arguing about.

There are several. Being the first non-warmonger US President in a generation is quite a big thing.

But you are right. Rhetoric and virtue signalling is what wins Nobel Peace Prizes.

You like trying to put words into people's mouths, don't you?

As for Trump, given that he is utterly rash, has few, if any, principles, and that he has explicitly demonstrated a complete disregard for the humanity of a number of different groups of people, in both rhetoric and action, the fact that he has not launched any new conflicts is purely down to circumstance. If he perceived for one second that it would personally help him, whatever about the US, he'd be ordering air strikes as quick as he could get on Twitter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 03:48:43 PM
He'd certainly have kept John Bolton and the other neocons on aboard had he contrived to start another war. But there's no pleasing some people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 03:48:43 PM
He'd certainly have kept John Bolton and the other neocons on aboard had he contrived to start another war. But there's no pleasing some people.

Given Bolton's very outspoken and bellicose history, you'd have to wonder why he hired him in the first place?

Doesn't change the fact that Trump is driven almost solely by what he perceives will benefit him personally. If the US public in general and the right wing base in particular wasn't completely war-weary (ironic, when you think back to freedom fries and burning Dixie Chicks records and Obama's "apology tour"), he'd have no qualms whatsoever about starting something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 10, 2020, 04:19:03 PM
Good to see the important things being discussed to deflect away from yesterday's revelations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 03:58:04 PM
Given Bolton's very outspoken and bellicose history, you'd have to wonder why he hired him in the first place?
Indeed.

Quote
Doesn't change the fact that Trump is driven almost solely by what he perceives will benefit him personally. If the US public in general and the right wing base in particular wasn't completely war-weary (ironic, when you think back to freedom fries and burning Dixie Chicks records and Obama's "apology tour"), he'd have no qualms whatsoever about starting something.

The US public was also completely war-weary in 2008. Obama's drone attacks barely cost him a vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 04:35:41 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 03:58:04 PM
Given Bolton's very outspoken and bellicose history, you'd have to wonder why he hired him in the first place?
Indeed.

Quote
Doesn't change the fact that Trump is driven almost solely by what he perceives will benefit him personally. If the US public in general and the right wing base in particular wasn't completely war-weary (ironic, when you think back to freedom fries and burning Dixie Chicks records and Obama's "apology tour"), he'd have no qualms whatsoever about starting something.

The US public was also completely war-weary in 2008. Obama's drone attacks barely cost him a vote.

You appear to be under the impression that the US doesn't use drone warfare under Trump or that Trump didn't roll back transparency and accountability measures that were put in place under Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 04:47:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 04:35:41 PM
You appear to be under the impression that the US doesn't use drone warfare under Trump or that Trump didn't roll back transparency and accountability measures that were put in place under Obama.

How do you deduce that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 04:47:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 04:35:41 PM
You appear to be under the impression that the US doesn't use drone warfare under Trump or that Trump didn't roll back transparency and accountability measures that were put in place under Obama.

How do you deduce that?

I guess you're not then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:09:21 PM
Given that you seem to be contrasting Obama and Trump on war mongering and missile strikes in Trump's favour, what do you have to say about the use of drones increasing under Trump and his rollback of the transparency and accountability measures?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207)
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers (https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:22:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:09:21 PM
Given that you seem to be contrasting Obama and Trump on war mongering and missile strikes in Trump's favour, what do you have to say about the use of drones increasing under Trump and his rollback of the transparency and accountability measures?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207)
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers (https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers)

You'll have to do better than the Chicago SunTimes. That page kicks me into a paywall after about 5 seconds each time I open it. I did manage to notice it's a second-hand story from The Daily Beast, hardly an unbiased source.  Ditto the BBC who never mention that Obama didn't introduce the drone strike fatality executive order until he was almost out of the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:26:20 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:22:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:09:21 PM
Given that you seem to be contrasting Obama and Trump on war mongering and missile strikes in Trump's favour, what do you have to say about the use of drones increasing under Trump and his rollback of the transparency and accountability measures?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207)
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers (https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers)

You'll have to do better than the Chicago SunTimes. That page kicks me into a paywall after about 5 seconds each time I open it. I did manage to notice it's a second-hand story from The Daily Beast, hardly an unbiased source.  Ditto the BBC who never mention that Obama didn't introduce the drone strike fatality executive order until he was almost out of the White House.

You're the one making a song and dance about the drone strikes.

Are you disputing the figures?

Are you justifying Trump getting rid of the executive order?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:28:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:26:20 PM
Are you disputing the figures?
I can't even read them. Have you nothing better?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 10, 2020, 05:37:14 PM
Bad faith is a sustained form of deception which consists of entertaining or pretending to entertain one set of feelings while acting as if influenced by another.

It is associated with hypocrisy, breach of contract, affectation and lip service.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:39:35 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:28:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:26:20 PM
Are you disputing the figures?
I can't even read them. Have you nothing better?

From the BBC link, as of March 2019:

During Mr Obama's eight years in office, 1,878 drone strikes were carried out, according to researchers. Since Mr Trump was elected in 2016, there have been 2,243 drone strikes. The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes - and less transparency.

Figures from the Sun Times link, authored by SE Cupp, a conservative journalist BTW, tell a similar story.

But again, given that YOU are the one who brought up the drones to defend Trump and attack Obama, you must have some basis for your assertions.

If the data presented by the BBC and SE Cupp, via the Daily Beast, is wrong, go ahead and show it.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:46:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 10, 2020, 04:19:03 PM
Good to see the important things being discussed to deflect away from yesterday's revelations

Yesterday its him intentionally lying about what he really knew about the coronavirus.

A few days ago it was him disparaging those who serve in the armed forces.

This weekend it will be something else.

There is no bottom with this lowlife.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:49:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:39:35 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:28:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:26:20 PM
Are you disputing the figures?
I can't even read them. Have you nothing better?

From the BBC link, as of March 2019:

During Mr Obama's eight years in office, 1,878 drone strikes were carried out, according to researchers. Since Mr Trump was elected in 2016, there have been 2,243 drone strikes. The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes - and less transparency.

Figures from the Sun Times link, authored by SE Cupp, a conservative journalist BTW, tell a similar story.

But again, given that YOU are the one who brought up the drones to defend Trump and attack Obama, you must have some basis for your assertions.

If the data presented by the BBC and SE Cupp, via the Daily Beast, is wrong, go ahead and show it.

Drone strikes. No mention of other air strikes (which we were actually discussing all day). No mention of bombs dropped on civilians.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 10, 2020, 05:51:48 PM
(https://static.miraheze.org/allthetropeswiki/4/4b/Moving_goal.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:54:23 PM
Gabriel you came a bit late to this to accuse anyone of moving goalposts.

6 hours too late.

Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
at least he was preaching a message of inclusion

... while going on in the next 8 years to launch ten times more air strikes on foreign targets than GW Bush did during his 8 years.

Some "inclusion" that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:58:44 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:49:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:39:35 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:28:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:26:20 PM
Are you disputing the figures?
I can't even read them. Have you nothing better?

From the BBC link, as of March 2019:

During Mr Obama's eight years in office, 1,878 drone strikes were carried out, according to researchers. Since Mr Trump was elected in 2016, there have been 2,243 drone strikes. The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes - and less transparency.

Figures from the Sun Times link, authored by SE Cupp, a conservative journalist BTW, tell a similar story.

But again, given that YOU are the one who brought up the drones to defend Trump and attack Obama, you must have some basis for your assertions.

If the data presented by the BBC and SE Cupp, via the Daily Beast, is wrong, go ahead and show it.

Drone strikes. No mention of other air strikes (which we were actually discussing all day). No mention of bombs dropped on civilians.

You're the one who zeroed in on drones.

"Obama's drone attacks barely cost him a vote"

You are free to present whatever data you wish.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:58:44 PM

You're the one who zeroed in on drones.

"Obama's drone attacks barely cost him a vote"

You are free to present whatever data you wish.
Give over, I mentioned them in passing. And I stand over that. They didn't do him a blind bit of harm.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2020, 06:08:16 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:58:44 PM

You're the one who zeroed in on drones.

"Obama's drone attacks barely cost him a vote"

You are free to present whatever data you wish.
Give over, I mentioned them in passing. And I stand over that. They didn't do him a blind bit of harm.

Trump's drones won't cost him either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 10, 2020, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 06:08:16 PM
Quote from: five points on September 10, 2020, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 10, 2020, 05:58:44 PM

You're the one who zeroed in on drones.

"Obama's drone attacks barely cost him a vote"

You are free to present whatever data you wish.
Give over, I mentioned them in passing. And I stand over that. They didn't do him a blind bit of harm.

Trump's drones won't cost him either.

Correct.  Not a vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 14, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
It'll start getting cooler... you just watch!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 15, 2020, 01:17:30 AM
I see Joe Biden is being accused of reading scripted answers from a teleprompter on the James Corden show. Is he capable of beating Trump in a debate or at least hold his own?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2020, 01:43:26 AM
Quote from: Roesider on September 15, 2020, 01:17:30 AM
I see Joe Biden is being accused of reading scripted answers from a teleprompter on the James Corden show. Is he capable of beating Trump in a debate or at least hold his own?

Depends how you define "beat".

And also whether the fact checkers can keep up with Trump's lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 15, 2020, 01:57:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2020, 01:43:26 AM
Quote from: Roesider on September 15, 2020, 01:17:30 AM
I see Joe Biden is being accused of reading scripted answers from a teleprompter on the James Corden show. Is he capable of beating Trump in a debate or at least hold his own?

Depends how you define "beat".

And also whether the fact checkers can keep up with Trump's lies.
Biden: "President Trump did not take the thread of Coronavirus seriously, called it a hoax, said it would go away like a miracle and cost many thousands of American lives..."

Trump: "SHUT UP SLEEPY JOE, YOU ARE A DANGEROUS RADICAL COMMUNIST PAEDOPHILE AND YOU HAVE A TINY PENIS! YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT! YOU HAVE A MICRO DICK! I KNOW BECAUSE I FUCKED YOUR DEAD WIFE THE NIGHT BEFORE SHE DIED IN A CAR CRASH AND SHE TOLD ME!!!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 15, 2020, 03:22:34 AM
Quote from: Roesider on September 15, 2020, 01:17:30 AM
I see Joe Biden is being accused of reading scripted answers from a teleprompter on the James Corden show. Is he capable of beating Trump in a debate or at least hold his own?

I prefer to watch Trump reading from the teleprompter and you see those little moments where he's obviously reading some well-known fact for the first time, and he says "nobody knew that," or "wait, can we go back and read that again?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 15, 2020, 04:24:27 PM
It's like most of the US media has Stockholm Syndrome

Denialism ahoy

Sometimes the reality is too difficult to face, it's easier to for people to live in denial

Quotehttps://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1305882295686049800

Greg Sargent
@ThePlumLineGS


Trump just declared once again on Fox News that the outcome of the election cannot be legitimate if he loses. This is the third time he's made this claim explicit. Yet the political media just seems to largely tolerate it. That's insane.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 19, 2020, 12:45:39 AM
Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 19, 2020, 01:18:05 AM
Quote from: dec on September 19, 2020, 12:45:39 AM
Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died.

Watch Trump try rush through another supreme court justice before November. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 19, 2020, 01:23:06 AM
Quote from: dec on September 19, 2020, 12:45:39 AM
Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died.
And there goes the election, and whatever is left of American democracy with it, because the election will probably end up in the Supreme Court

The last five years feels like a very unfunny joke

100% certain Trump will railroad a joke justice through now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2020, 03:09:05 AM
I'm off social media until after the election, but I will make an exception

Due to their absolutely disgraceful behavior during the Kavanaugh hearings, the Democrats deserve to have this one rammed right up their holes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 19, 2020, 04:11:57 AM
The notorious RBG. RiP

If  McConnell pushes through a nominee after blocking Garland in 2016, Trump will probably lose and the GOP will probably lose the the Senate.

The US is a mess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 19, 2020, 05:44:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2020, 03:09:05 AM
I'm off social media until after the election, but I will make an exception

Due to their absolutely disgraceful behavior during the Kavanaugh hearings, the Democrats deserve to have this one rammed right up their holes.

Whitey: Your timing on this demonstrates you have all the grace of a forced bowel movement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 19, 2020, 06:57:52 AM
The least surprising comment ever made on this board. His mask slipped a long long time ago. And as if he was taking time off social media. He couldn't wait to run back in and gloat. His post history regarding RBG speaks for itself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: smelmoth on September 19, 2020, 08:02:55 AM
Terrible news on RBG. It has to be hoped that the reviews of her life and career will shine a light on decency, reason and learning. It would do no harm for the American electorate to reminded of these values and their merits in the run up to the election

It's very much regrettable that Trump will get a go at a replacement.

The evidence that Donald Trump is an idiot, lacks human decency, has no grasp of the importance or complexity of international relations, struggles with fact, logic and cause:effect is overwhelming. It would be terrible if his presidency was given enduring effects but it now seems likely via a SC appointment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 19, 2020, 09:43:43 AM
It's likely that the Dems win the Senate and Presidency
The way the SC is chosen is not a law of nature. It will have to be changed to deal with issues such as climate change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on September 19, 2020, 11:21:35 AM
Didn't know anything about her but the American tripartite division of power is a balls. It quite stupid to declare Supreme Court justices for life, would make much more sense to just have a fixed term appt. it leads to changing of the Supreme Court staff at the random call of death, which is a poor structure along with being macabre.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2020, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2020, 03:09:05 AM
I'm off social media until after the election, but I will make an exception

Due to their absolutely disgraceful behavior during the Kavanaugh hearings, the Democrats deserve to have this one rammed right up their holes.

Pile. of. shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 19, 2020, 04:11:57 AM
The notorious RBG. RiP

If  McConnell pushes through a nominee after blocking Garland in 2016, Trump will probably lose and the GOP will probably lose the the Senate.

The US is a mess.

If Trump and McConnell do this, there needs to be a serious f**king backlash.

Make it a massive election issue, get the vote out, take back the White House and the Senate, and ram their cynicism down their throats by adding a few justices to the court.

The Dems have been pussies for far too long.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 19, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 19, 2020, 09:43:43 AM
It's likely that the Dems win the Senate and Presidency
The way the SC is chosen is not a law of nature. It will have to be changed to deal with issues such as climate change.
If Biden wins and the Democrats take the senate - and that appears a long shot to me at this stage - the Democrats should expand the Supreme Court to 15 and ram through the most left-wing justices they can find, as well as massively expanding the judiciary nationwide as a whole - which is already long overdue

And make DC and Puerto Rico states

The reality is that as long as the Democrats don't have the presidency and the senate, another liberal justice will never again be approved

If Biden wins and the Democrats take the senate, the gloves need to come off, it needs to be absolute war, and the right-wing needs to be totally obliterated - because the right-wing wants to totally obliterate democracy and any sort of reason
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 19, 2020, 05:15:12 PM
Sad to see Ginsberg die she seemed like a decent person and a real advocate for good government and woman's rights it would be great to get someone of a similar mind in there!!

If you didn't think things were a bit mad over there already shit is going to get crazier!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2020, 07:56:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 19, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 19, 2020, 09:43:43 AM
It's likely that the Dems win the Senate and Presidency
The way the SC is chosen is not a law of nature. It will have to be changed to deal with issues such as climate change.
If Biden wins and the Democrats take the senate - and that appears a long shot to me at this stage - the Democrats should expand the Supreme Court to 15 and ram through the most left-wing justices they can find, as well as massively expanding the judiciary nationwide as a whole - which is already long overdue

And make DC and Puerto Rico states

The reality is that as long as the Democrats don't have the presidency and the senate, another liberal justice will never again be approved

If Biden wins and the Democrats take the senate, the gloves need to come off, it needs to be absolute war, and the right-wing needs to be totally obliterated - because the right-wing wants to totally obliterate democracy and any sort of reason

Hear bloody hear. This tyranny of the conservative minority has gone on long enough. Time to get the sword out and fight back for once.

We only need a handful of GOP senators to block a Trump SC nomination, and so far there's a chance of holding it off until after the election. Dems are slightly favoured to take back the senate according to the latest polls.

An expanded SC with term limits is the way to go. If it doesn't happen, what's left of American democracy will die and The Handmaid's Tale will start to look like a documentary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/119921806_10221180480554116_3014704641461236065_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=BUzShM8fV5EAX-FeYrv&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=515f391a1968587d3cbe7a26c0a1078f&oe=5F8F050E)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
This is a fun read.  The article entirely consists of quotes from Republicans about why Justices should not be appointed to the Supreme Court in an election year.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/21/opinion/supreme-court-nomination-ginsburg.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/21/opinion/supreme-court-nomination-ginsburg.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2020, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
This is a fun read.  The article entirely consists of quotes from Republicans about why Justices should not be appointed to the Supreme Court in an election year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/opinion/ruth-bader-ginsburg-senate-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/opinion/ruth-bader-ginsburg-senate-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage)

Wrong article linked.

Although that one is interesting too.

Can you imagine Trump and Fox News if the Dems do pull out some of those suggestions such as objecting to the UCs or making all the GOP senators in those tight races be present in person in D.C. to form a quorum instead of being out fundraising and shaking hands at home? :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 02:33:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
This is a fun read.  The article entirely consists of quotes from Republicans about why Justices should not be appointed to the Supreme Court in an election year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/opinion/ruth-bader-ginsburg-senate-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/opinion/ruth-bader-ginsburg-senate-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage)


Although that one is interesting too.

Can you imagine Trump and Fox News if the Dems do pull out some of those suggestions such as objecting to the UCs or making all the GOP senators in those tight races be present in person in D.C. to form a quorum instead of being out fundraising and shaking hands at home? :)


Fixed above. Thanks J70.


I might actually watch Fox if that happened!  I can't see the Democrats doing anything so ballsy though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2020, 02:45:36 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 02:33:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
This is a fun read.  The article entirely consists of quotes from Republicans about why Justices should not be appointed to the Supreme Court in an election year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/opinion/ruth-bader-ginsburg-senate-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/opinion/ruth-bader-ginsburg-senate-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage)


Although that one is interesting too.

Can you imagine Trump and Fox News if the Dems do pull out some of those suggestions such as objecting to the UCs or making all the GOP senators in those tight races be present in person in D.C. to form a quorum instead of being out fundraising and shaking hands at home? :)


Fixed above. Thanks J70.


I might actually watch Fox if that happened!  I can't see the Democrats doing anything so ballsy though.

No, they're generally relatively gutless compared to the Republicans.

There's no chance in hell that they would have ploughed ahead with this nomination anyway if the roles were reversed. Say what you want about Mitch McConnell, but he doesn't give two fucks about public outcry or PR. Eyes on the prize, that's all that matters, especially when it comes to the courts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 22, 2020, 03:39:14 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b4/7b/d8/b47bd84bd7154efbf9745357ea23563b.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 22, 2020, 04:05:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 02:45:36 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 02:33:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
This is a fun read.  The article entirely consists of quotes from Republicans about why Justices should not be appointed to the Supreme Court in an election year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/opinion/ruth-bader-ginsburg-senate-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/opinion/ruth-bader-ginsburg-senate-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage)


Although that one is interesting too.

Can you imagine Trump and Fox News if the Dems do pull out some of those suggestions such as objecting to the UCs or making all the GOP senators in those tight races be present in person in D.C. to form a quorum instead of being out fundraising and shaking hands at home? :)


Fixed above. Thanks J70.


I might actually watch Fox if that happened!  I can't see the Democrats doing anything so ballsy though.

No, they're generally relatively gutless compared to the Republicans.

There's no chance in hell that they would have ploughed ahead with this nomination anyway if the roles were reversed. Say what you want about Mitch McConnell, but he doesn't give two fucks about public outcry or PR. Eyes on the prize, that's all that matters, especially when it comes to the courts.

That's the truth. He might look ridiculous, but he's the most ruthless MFer ever to sit in that position. Dems need to grow a pair and fight back. Pack the court next year to counter the illegitimate justices appointed by Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 22, 2020, 04:23:14 PM
Packing the court only works as a strategy for as long as you hold the Presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 05:15:27 PM
Which is why the Dems need to move on statehood for DC and PR.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 22, 2020, 05:20:38 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 05:15:27 PM
Which is why the Dems need to move on statehood for DC and PR.

Can the democrat party change the rules at this late stage so they can win and would it be legal?

I can only imagine that the Trump supporters will riot and loot just like they have been doing for the last few months. Can't get any worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2020, 05:28:11 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 22, 2020, 05:20:38 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 05:15:27 PM
Which is why the Dems need to move on statehood for DC and PR.

Can the democrat party change the rules at this late stage so they can win and would it be legal?

I can only imagine that the Trump supporters will riot and loot just like they have been doing for the last few months. Can't get any worse.

Not sure what you mean here. I presume you DON'T mean adding them before THIS election?

That aside, the US expanded frequently over its history as new states were admitted, up to Hawaii and Alaska in the 1950s. There's nothing stopping further additions as long as the conditions are met. And if they are, what would there be to riot about?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 05:41:32 PM
I was thinking if the Dems won the Presidency and senate, they could both stack the court and by adding 4 fairly safe future senate seats, protect against  the Republicans returning the favor later down the line.

It's what Mitch would do!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 22, 2020, 05:52:35 PM
Gerrymandering usually backfires though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2020, 05:58:18 PM
Quote from: five points on September 22, 2020, 05:52:35 PM
Gerrymandering usually backfires though.

In the US?

Cool. When will it backfire? :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 22, 2020, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 05:41:32 PM
I was thinking if the Dems won the Presidency and senate, they could both stack the court and by adding 4 fairly safe future senate seats, protect against  the Republicans returning the favor later down the line.

It's what Mitch would do!

It's precisely what Mitch would do, and it's precisely what Biden needs to do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 22, 2020, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 19, 2020, 04:11:57 AM
The notorious RBG. RiP

If  McConnell pushes through a nominee after blocking Garland in 2016, Trump will probably lose and the GOP will probably lose the the Senate.

The US is a mess.

If Trump and McConnell do this, there needs to be a serious f**king backlash.

Make it a massive election issue, get the vote out, take back the White House and the Senate, and ram their cynicism down their throats by adding a few justices to the court.

The Dems have been pussies for far too long.

How do you propose they do that??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 22, 2020, 06:47:36 PM
By doing what he said
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 22, 2020, 06:54:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 22, 2020, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 19, 2020, 04:11:57 AM
The notorious RBG. RiP

If  McConnell pushes through a nominee after blocking Garland in 2016, Trump will probably lose and the GOP will probably lose the the Senate.

The US is a mess.

If Trump and McConnell do this, there needs to be a serious f**king backlash.

Make it a massive election issue, get the vote out, take back the White House and the Senate, and ram their cynicism down their throats by adding a few justices to the court.

The Dems have been pussies for far too long.

How do you propose they do that??

By expanding the supreme court and adding their own justices to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:29:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 22, 2020, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 19, 2020, 04:11:57 AM
The notorious RBG. RiP

If  McConnell pushes through a nominee after blocking Garland in 2016, Trump will probably lose and the GOP will probably lose the the Senate.

The US is a mess.

If Trump and McConnell do this, there needs to be a serious f**king backlash.

Make it a massive election issue, get the vote out, take back the White House and the Senate, and ram their cynicism down their throats by adding a few justices to the court.

The Dems have been pussies for far too long.

How do you propose they do that??

The number of justices is set by law.

If Congresses passes it and the president signs it, that's it.

Whether its a good idea or not, is a separate issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:32:21 PM
Apparently the number of justices was increased to ten to give Lincoln an extra pick, then dropped to seven to deny Andrew Johnson any picks, then upped to nine again (where it's stayed) to allow Ullysses Grant two picks.

All in the space of six years! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 22, 2020, 07:33:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:29:15 PM
The number of justices is set by law.

If Congresses passes it and the president signs it, that's it.

Whether its a good idea or not, is a separate issue.

When Biden wins could they add 20 new justices straight away?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:35:50 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 22, 2020, 07:33:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:29:15 PM
The number of justices is set by law.

If Congresses passes it and the president signs it, that's it.

Whether its a good idea or not, is a separate issue.

When Biden wins could they add 20 new justices straight away?

In theory, IF they take back the Senate too and abolish the filibuster
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 07:36:43 PM
Quote from: five points on September 22, 2020, 05:52:35 PM
Gerrymandering usually backfires though.

Giving the vote to people who live in the US (or in a US territory in the case of PR) is gerrymandering?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 22, 2020, 07:37:27 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 22, 2020, 07:33:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:29:15 PM
The number of justices is set by law.

If Congresses passes it and the president signs it, that's it.

Whether its a good idea or not, is a separate issue.

When Biden wins could they add 20 new justices straight away?
I'd imagine the only constraint would be the amount of time the Senate would have to process the hearings and votes, but we're about to see how quickly they can get that job done when they put their minds to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:37:53 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 07:36:43 PM
Quote from: five points on September 22, 2020, 05:52:35 PM
Gerrymandering usually backfires though.

Giving the vote to people who live in the US (or in a US territory in the case of PR) is gerrymandering?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Washington%2C_D.C._license_plate%2C_2017.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 22, 2020, 09:19:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:35:50 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 22, 2020, 07:33:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:29:15 PM
The number of justices is set by law.

If Congresses passes it and the president signs it, that's it.

Whether its a good idea or not, is a separate issue.

When Biden wins could they add 20 new justices straight away?

In theory, IF they take back the Senate too and abolish the filibuster

Is this a serious conversation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 22, 2020, 10:12:00 PM
So if Democrats take the White House and Senate, push statehood through for DC and PR and pack the Supreme Court what stops the Republicans splitting Texas to create additional states to take the Senate back?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/messing-with-texas/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 22, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 22, 2020, 10:12:00 PM
So if Democrats take the White House and Senate, push statehood through for DC and PR and pack the Supreme Court what stops the Republicans splitting Texas to create additional states to take the Senate back?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/messing-with-texas/amp/
Why should DC and Puerto Rico not have statehood and senate representation if they so desire, which they quite clearly do?

What's the argument against it?

Colonialism?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2020, 12:10:07 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 22, 2020, 10:12:00 PM
So if Democrats take the White House and Senate, push statehood through for DC and PR and pack the Supreme Court what stops the Republicans splitting Texas to create additional states to take the Senate back?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/messing-with-texas/amp/
The fact that Texas will go blue before a breakup stands a chance of happening.

Conservatives have tried to split California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Californias) already because they can't take a beating in the state, and that little effort didn't get very far.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2020, 12:19:40 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 22, 2020, 09:19:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:35:50 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 22, 2020, 07:33:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2020, 07:29:15 PM
The number of justices is set by law.

If Congresses passes it and the president signs it, that's it.

Whether its a good idea or not, is a separate issue.

When Biden wins could they add 20 new justices straight away?

In theory, IF they take back the Senate too and abolish the filibuster

Is this a serious conversation

Not yet, at least when it comes to the Democratic leadership.

The idea is being discussed though.

Edit: I'm pretty sure TWENTY justices is not a serious conversation! :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 23, 2020, 10:36:56 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 07:36:43 PM
Quote from: five points on September 22, 2020, 05:52:35 PM
Gerrymandering usually backfires though.

Giving the vote to people who live in the US (or in a US territory in the case of PR) is gerrymandering?

Depends on the circumstances. Creating new states motivated by the hope of creating a party political advantage is the essence of gerrymandering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2020, 12:14:57 PM
Quote from: five points on September 23, 2020, 10:36:56 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2020, 07:36:43 PM
Quote from: five points on September 22, 2020, 05:52:35 PM
Gerrymandering usually backfires though.

Giving the vote to people who live in the US (or in a US territory in the case of PR) is gerrymandering?

Depends on the circumstances. Creating new states motivated by the hope of creating a party political advantage is the essence of gerrymandering.

Denial of statehood the same.

What's the justification for DC residents not to have senators and a voting congress person?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 23, 2020, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2020, 12:14:57 PM
Denial of statehood the same.

What's the justification for DC residents not to have senators and a voting congress person?

Quotegerrymander
/ˈdʒɛrɪˌmandə/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: gerrymandering
manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favour one party or class.

What's the justification for any city not to have its own senators and a voting congress person?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2020, 12:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on September 23, 2020, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2020, 12:14:57 PM
Denial of statehood the same.

What's the justification for DC residents not to have senators and a voting congress person?

Quotegerrymander
/ˈdʒɛrɪˌmandə/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: gerrymandering
manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favour one party or class.

What's the justification for any city not to have its own senators and a voting congress person?

Residents of all the other US cities have representation in the senate through their states and, in many cases, multiple voting congress people of their own.

As DC isn't part of any state, its residents are unrepresented in a major branch of government situated in their very midst.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 23, 2020, 01:05:35 PM
It's mad to see people trying to make out that some other people should have no political representation based on where they live

On that basis we could just cancel whole Dail constituencies and leave the inhabitants of them without any TDs

I propose abolishing Kerry for the laugh, they don't pay taxes  down there anyway





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 23, 2020, 01:12:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2020, 12:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on September 23, 2020, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2020, 12:14:57 PM
Denial of statehood the same.

What's the justification for DC residents not to have senators and a voting congress person?

Quotegerrymander
/ˈdʒɛrɪˌmandə/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: gerrymandering
manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favour one party or class.

What's the justification for any city not to have its own senators and a voting congress person?

Residents of all the other US cities have representation in the senate through their states and, in many cases, multiple voting congress people of their own.

As DC isn't part of any state, its residents are unrepresented in a major branch of government situated in their very midst.

Fair enough, but the does that in itself warrant statehood? If lack of congressional representation is a problem, could that be fixed by appending it to Maryland or Virginia, in whole or in parts?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on September 23, 2020, 01:46:18 PM
By making DC a state could Republicans not simply respond in kind by making a republican voting city into a state?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2020, 01:46:58 PM
Quote from: five points on September 23, 2020, 01:12:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2020, 12:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on September 23, 2020, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2020, 12:14:57 PM
Denial of statehood the same.

What's the justification for DC residents not to have senators and a voting congress person?

Quotegerrymander
/ˈdʒɛrɪˌmandə/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: gerrymandering
manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favour one party or class.

What's the justification for any city not to have its own senators and a voting congress person?

Residents of all the other US cities have representation in the senate through their states and, in many cases, multiple voting congress people of their own.

As DC isn't part of any state, its residents are unrepresented in a major branch of government situated in their very midst.

Fair enough, but the does that in itself warrant statehood? If lack of congressional representation is a problem, could that be fixed by appending it to Maryland or Virginia, in whole or in parts?

A potential solution, certainly, if not for the whole district, then at least part.

Apparently the rationale against the federal government ceding control of DC, either to a state of DC in its own right, or it being annexed by VA or MD, is they don't want to be reliant on or subject to the control and whims of a state governnment.

But that still doesn't excuse the lack of representation at a federal level.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2020, 01:47:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 23, 2020, 01:46:18 PM
By making DC a state could Republicans not simply respond in kind by making a republican voting city into a state?

Based on what justification?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 23, 2020, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 22, 2020, 10:12:00 PM
So if Democrats take the White House and Senate, push statehood through for DC and PR and pack the Supreme Court what stops the Republicans splitting Texas to create additional states to take the Senate back?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/messing-with-texas/amp/
Why should DC and Puerto Rico not have statehood and senate representation if they so desire, which they quite clearly do?

What's the argument against it?

Colonialism?
Where did I say they shouldn't have statehood?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 23, 2020, 11:58:10 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/  (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/)

Some light bedtime reading.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 24, 2020, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 23, 2020, 01:46:18 PM
By making DC a state could Republicans not simply respond in kind by making a republican voting city into a state?

Admission to the union requires approval by congress.  Quoth wikipedia:

The Admission to the Union Clause of the United States Constitution, often called the New States Clause, found at Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1, authorizes the Congress to admit new states into the United States beyond the thirteen already in existence at the time the Constitution went into effect.

The Constitution went into effect on June 21, 1788, after ratification by 9 of the 13 states, and the federal government began operations under it on March 4, 1789.[1] Since then, 37 states have been admitted into the Union. Each new state has been admitted on an equal footing with those already in existence.[2]

Of the 37 states admitted to the Union by Congress, all but six have been established within an existing U.S. organized incorporated territory. A state so created might encompass all or a portion of a territory. When the people of a territory or a region thereof have grown to a sufficient population and make their desire for statehood known to the federal government, in most cases Congress passed an enabling act authorizing the people of that territory or region to frame a proposed state constitution as a step toward admission to the Union. Although the use of an enabling act was a common historic practice, a number of states were admitted to the Union without one.

In many instances, an enabling act would detail the mechanism by which the territory would be admitted as a state following ratification of their constitution and election of state officers. Although the use of such an act is a traditional historic practice, a number of territories have drafted constitutions for submission to Congress absent an enabling act and were subsequently admitted. The broad outline for this process was established by the Land Ordinance of 1784 and the 1787 Northwest Ordinance, both of which predate the present U.S. Constitution.

The Admission to the Union Clause also forbids the creation of new states from parts of existing states without the consent of all the affected states and Congress. The primary intent of this caveat was to give Eastern states that still had western land claims (there were four at that time[which?]) a veto over whether their western counties could become states.[3] This clause has served the same function since, each time a proposal to partition an existing state or states has arisen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 12:08:34 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 23, 2020, 11:58:10 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/  (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/)

Some light bedtime reading.
Read that earlier

It's all too believable

Timothy Snyder says that "There is a failure of imagination. In order to see reality, you need imagination. And imagination comes from history, it comes from a recognition that these things have happened before."

He's dead right

I listened to a podcast tonight featuring the Irish based US commentator Larry Donnelly - this is it here https://blog.hereshow.ie/2020/08/heres-how-109-trumping-the-media/

Larry sounds like a nice fella and would probably be good to have a pint with, but if his views are in any way representative of the DNC and those tasked with stopping Trump stealing the election, America is well and truly fucked, because pushover views like Larry's sum up why the Democratic party so consistently loses fights to focussed, calculating enemies who only care about power

You'd get more fight in an 89 old quadriplegic hoked up to a ventilator, in a critical condition with Covid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on September 24, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
I obviously knew DC is not a state, but are you guys saying residents of DC don't have a vote in the presidential election?
Or just that it doesn't have senators or congressmen ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on September 24, 2020, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 24, 2020, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 23, 2020, 01:46:18 PM
By making DC a state could Republicans not simply respond in kind by making a republican voting city into a state?

Admission to the union requires approval by congress.  Quoth wikipedia:

The Admission to the Union Clause of the United States Constitution, often called the New States Clause, found at Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1, authorizes the Congress to admit new states into the United States beyond the thirteen already in existence at the time the Constitution went into effect.

The Constitution went into effect on June 21, 1788, after ratification by 9 of the 13 states, and the federal government began operations under it on March 4, 1789.[1] Since then, 37 states have been admitted into the Union. Each new state has been admitted on an equal footing with those already in existence.[2]

Of the 37 states admitted to the Union by Congress, all but six have been established within an existing U.S. organized incorporated territory. A state so created might encompass all or a portion of a territory. When the people of a territory or a region thereof have grown to a sufficient population and make their desire for statehood known to the federal government, in most cases Congress passed an enabling act authorizing the people of that territory or region to frame a proposed state constitution as a step toward admission to the Union. Although the use of an enabling act was a common historic practice, a number of states were admitted to the Union without one.

In many instances, an enabling act would detail the mechanism by which the territory would be admitted as a state following ratification of their constitution and election of state officers. Although the use of such an act is a traditional historic practice, a number of territories have drafted constitutions for submission to Congress absent an enabling act and were subsequently admitted. The broad outline for this process was established by the Land Ordinance of 1784 and the 1787 Northwest Ordinance, both of which predate the present U.S. Constitution.

The Admission to the Union Clause also forbids the creation of new states from parts of existing states without the consent of all the affected states and Congress. The primary intent of this caveat was to give Eastern states that still had western land claims (there were four at that time[which?]) a veto over whether their western counties could become states.[3] This clause has served the same function since, each time a proposal to partition an existing state or states has arisen.
Is Texas not a unique case though? The The Tyler-Texas treaty allowed for the creation of up to 4 more states from the existing territory!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 24, 2020, 11:59:05 AM
Quote from: Hound on September 24, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
I obviously knew DC is not a state, but are you guys saying residents of DC don't have a vote in the presidential election?
Or just that it doesn't have senators or congressmen ?

DC residents do get a vote in the Presidential election, they do not get to elect any one to the Senate or House of Representatives (they do have a non voting member in the House)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Hound on September 24, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
I obviously knew DC is not a state, but are you guys saying residents of DC don't have a vote in the presidential election?
Or just that it doesn't have senators or congressmen ?
Residents of DC do have a vote in the presidential election

DC has 3 electoral college votes

But it has no senators

Why should it have no senators?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:23:04 PM
Trump said "Jews are only in it for themselves"

We already knew he's a raving anti-Semite and he's proved it yet again

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/trump-quoted-as-saying-that-jews-are-only-in-it-for-themselves-1.9180593
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2020, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:23:04 PM
Trump said "Jews are only in it for themselves"

We already knew he's a raving anti-Semite and he's proved it yet again

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/trump-quoted-as-saying-that-jews-are-only-in-it-for-themselves-1.9180593

Talk about projecting!

If ever someone was looking for a person or people who were "only in it for themselves", Trump and his family would be Exhibit A.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2020, 01:28:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Hound on September 24, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
I obviously knew DC is not a state, but are you guys saying residents of DC don't have a vote in the presidential election?
Or just that it doesn't have senators or congressmen ?
Residents of DC do have a vote in the presidential election

DC has 3 electoral college votes

But it has no senators

Why should it have no senators?

Or a congress person with a vote?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:38:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:23:04 PM
Trump said "Jews are only in it for themselves"

We already knew he's a raving anti-Semite and he's proved it yet again

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/trump-quoted-as-saying-that-jews-are-only-in-it-for-themselves-1.9180593

Talk about projecting!

If ever someone was looking for a person or people who were "only in it for themselves", Trump and his family would be Exhibit A.
Literally everything about Trumpism and fascism is projection

Especially the supposed "anti-paedophilia" QAnon, and Pizzagate, I can't remember any other presidential candidate with credible claims of being a paedophile against them other than Trump

And the claims of voter fraud

Trump is planning to chuck all the mail-in votes in the trash

The warning signals about him stealing the election are at Code Red and then some, he's literally telling everybody what's going to happen, and yet nobody seems to be doing anything about it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2020, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:38:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:23:04 PM
Trump said "Jews are only in it for themselves"

We already knew he's a raving anti-Semite and he's proved it yet again

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/trump-quoted-as-saying-that-jews-are-only-in-it-for-themselves-1.9180593

Talk about projecting!

If ever someone was looking for a person or people who were "only in it for themselves", Trump and his family would be Exhibit A.
Literally everything about Trumpism and fascism is projection

Especially the supposed "anti-paedophilia" QAnon, and Pizzagate, I can't remember any other presidential candidate with credible claims of being a paedophile against them other than Trump

And the claims of voter fraud

Trump is planning to chuck all the mail-in votes in the trash

The warning signals about him stealing the election are at Code Red and then some, he's literally telling everybody what's going to happen, and yet nobody seems to be doing anything about it

https://thebulwark.com/the-strongman-cometh/ (https://thebulwark.com/the-strongman-cometh/)

The internet runneth over with people who see this and are desperate to discount it. And so this is what you hear:

He's a master troll.
He can't mean it.
He probably doesn't mean it.
Even if he means it, some deus ex machina will prevent him from doing it.
And even if there's a chance—a 20 percent chance, a 2 percent chance—that Trump does mean it and that the guardrails might not hold . . .
Well, what if Joe Biden is a cyborg being controlled by Communist space-lizards?
What if the Democrats got power and raised the capital gains tax rate?
What if some future Supreme Court, in some future decade, renders a bad decision on a case that does not yet exist?
And so these people avert their eyes and hide behind euphemisms and hope to avoid the precipice without having to sacrifice their positioning.

But the precipice is here. Donald Trump just told you.

In fact, he's been telling anyone who would listen for 30 years.

Maybe he won't be able to pull it off. Maybe Roberts and Gorsuch will stand in the breach. Maybe he'll wimp out in the end because he's more of a man-baby than a strongman.

But just how much are you willing to bet on that?

Because if the answer isn't "everything," then it's time to take this man at his word.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 24, 2020, 02:53:19 PM
Take him at his word!  First time for everything I suppose.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2020, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?

Yes, there were no other options available. No mistakes were made, no misconduct occurred, either before, during or after the proceedings. Wildly and blindly shooting through the walls and doors of two apartments in the middle of the night and ignoring the mortally wounded victim were the only available and justifiable responses. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?
What brought you to America, Gmac? On the run because you were in the Glennane Gang, was it?

You haven't lost the ideology you learned there anyway
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?

Yes, there were no other options available. No mistakes were made, no misconduct occurred, either before, during or after the proceedings. Wildly and blindly shooting through the walls and doors of two apartments in the middle of the night and ignoring the mortally wounded victim were the only available and justifiable responses. ::)
they were looking for a drug dealer who had this apartment listed as an address, they had a no knock warrant but they did knock and announced themselves after which they were fired at and returned fire tragically killing the innocent girl inside , my question is there are at least 10 shootings weekly we hear about where innocent people (mostly black) are shot in the crossfire including kids but none of those victims are celebrated, there are no marches , no protests. As the law stands they were justified in returning fire  except for cop who shot into another apartment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?

Yes, there were no other options available. No mistakes were made, no misconduct occurred, either before, during or after the proceedings. Wildly and blindly shooting through the walls and doors of two apartments in the middle of the night and ignoring the mortally wounded victim were the only available and justifiable responses. ::)
they were looking for a drug dealer who had this apartment listed as an address, they had a no knock warrant but they did knock and announced themselves after which they were fired at and returned fire tragically killing the innocent girl inside , my question is there are at least 10 shootings weekly we hear about where innocent people (mostly black) are shot in the crossfire including kids but none of those victims are celebrated, there are no marches , no protests. As the law stands they were justified in returning fire  except for cop who shot into another apartment.

How do you know they announced themselves?

Supposedly they had no body cameras.

Its their word against Walker's. He claims he thought it was the ex-boyfriend or burglars trying to bust in. An ex-boyfriend who had been arrested across town before any of this shit went down and they riddled two apartments with bullets like some mob hit. If all that's legal except for the other apartment, then the law is an ass.

As for those killed in the crossfire of gang wars and so on, they're killed by criminals, NOT agents of the state who are supposed to be the good guys representing and protecting everyone. And despite conservative whataboutery, there are many, many people, politicians and organizations working 24/7 to make things better. And even if there weren't, that still wouldn't invalidate the protests.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?

Yes, there were no other options available. No mistakes were made, no misconduct occurred, either before, during or after the proceedings. Wildly and blindly shooting through the walls and doors of two apartments in the middle of the night and ignoring the mortally wounded victim were the only available and justifiable responses. ::)
they were looking for a drug dealer who had this apartment listed as an address, they had a no knock warrant but they did knock and announced themselves after which they were fired at and returned fire tragically killing the innocent girl inside , my question is there are at least 10 shootings weekly we hear about where innocent people (mostly black) are shot in the crossfire including kids but none of those victims are celebrated, there are no marches , no protests. As the law stands they were justified in returning fire  except for cop who shot into another apartment.

How do you know they announced themselves?

Supposedly they had no body cameras.

Its their word against Walker's. He claims he thought it was the ex-boyfriend or burglars trying to bust in. An ex-boyfriend who had been arrested across town before any of this shit went down and they riddled two apartments with bullets like some mob hit. If all that's legal except for the other apartment, then the law is an ass.

As for those killed in the crossfire of gang wars and so on, they're killed by criminals, NOT agents of the state who are supposed to be the good guys representing and protecting everyone. And despite conservative whataboutery, there are many, many people, politicians and organizations working 24/7 to make things better. And even if there weren't, that still wouldn't invalidate the protests.
there are witnesses who backed up the police account of what happened.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?

Yes, there were no other options available. No mistakes were made, no misconduct occurred, either before, during or after the proceedings. Wildly and blindly shooting through the walls and doors of two apartments in the middle of the night and ignoring the mortally wounded victim were the only available and justifiable responses. ::)
they were looking for a drug dealer who had this apartment listed as an address, they had a no knock warrant but they did knock and announced themselves after which they were fired at and returned fire tragically killing the innocent girl inside , my question is there are at least 10 shootings weekly we hear about where innocent people (mostly black) are shot in the crossfire including kids but none of those victims are celebrated, there are no marches , no protests. As the law stands they were justified in returning fire  except for cop who shot into another apartment.

How do you know they announced themselves?

Supposedly they had no body cameras.

Its their word against Walker's. He claims he thought it was the ex-boyfriend or burglars trying to bust in. An ex-boyfriend who had been arrested across town before any of this shit went down and they riddled two apartments with bullets like some mob hit. If all that's legal except for the other apartment, then the law is an ass.

As for those killed in the crossfire of gang wars and so on, they're killed by criminals, NOT agents of the state who are supposed to be the good guys representing and protecting everyone. And despite conservative whataboutery, there are many, many people, politicians and organizations working 24/7 to make things better. And even if there weren't, that still wouldn't invalidate the protests.
there are witnesses who backed up the police account of what happened.

There's one witness. And a dozen more who say they DIDN'T hear the supposed announcement.

Yet again, body cams would solve the problem. But, we can't have that, can we?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:43:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?

Yes, there were no other options available. No mistakes were made, no misconduct occurred, either before, during or after the proceedings. Wildly and blindly shooting through the walls and doors of two apartments in the middle of the night and ignoring the mortally wounded victim were the only available and justifiable responses. ::)
they were looking for a drug dealer who had this apartment listed as an address, they had a no knock warrant but they did knock and announced themselves after which they were fired at and returned fire tragically killing the innocent girl inside , my question is there are at least 10 shootings weekly we hear about where innocent people (mostly black) are shot in the crossfire including kids but none of those victims are celebrated, there are no marches , no protests. As the law stands they were justified in returning fire  except for cop who shot into another apartment.

How do you know they announced themselves?

Supposedly they had no body cameras.

Its their word against Walker's. He claims he thought it was the ex-boyfriend or burglars trying to bust in. An ex-boyfriend who had been arrested across town before any of this shit went down and they riddled two apartments with bullets like some mob hit. If all that's legal except for the other apartment, then the law is an ass.

As for those killed in the crossfire of gang wars and so on, they're killed by criminals, NOT agents of the state who are supposed to be the good guys representing and protecting everyone. And despite conservative whataboutery, there are many, many people, politicians and organizations working 24/7 to make things better. And even if there weren't, that still wouldn't invalidate the protests.
there are witnesses who backed up the police account of what happened.

There's one witness. And a dozen more who say they DIDN'T hear the supposed announcement.

Yet again, body cams would solve the problem. But, we can't have that, can we?
maybe the Louisville pd can't afford them but they should defund them anyway , maybe they should hire a pimp to serve the warrant next time like Seattle are doing .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:51:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:43:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?

Yes, there were no other options available. No mistakes were made, no misconduct occurred, either before, during or after the proceedings. Wildly and blindly shooting through the walls and doors of two apartments in the middle of the night and ignoring the mortally wounded victim were the only available and justifiable responses. ::)
they were looking for a drug dealer who had this apartment listed as an address, they had a no knock warrant but they did knock and announced themselves after which they were fired at and returned fire tragically killing the innocent girl inside , my question is there are at least 10 shootings weekly we hear about where innocent people (mostly black) are shot in the crossfire including kids but none of those victims are celebrated, there are no marches , no protests. As the law stands they were justified in returning fire  except for cop who shot into another apartment.

How do you know they announced themselves?

Supposedly they had no body cameras.

Its their word against Walker's. He claims he thought it was the ex-boyfriend or burglars trying to bust in. An ex-boyfriend who had been arrested across town before any of this shit went down and they riddled two apartments with bullets like some mob hit. If all that's legal except for the other apartment, then the law is an ass.

As for those killed in the crossfire of gang wars and so on, they're killed by criminals, NOT agents of the state who are supposed to be the good guys representing and protecting everyone. And despite conservative whataboutery, there are many, many people, politicians and organizations working 24/7 to make things better. And even if there weren't, that still wouldn't invalidate the protests.
there are witnesses who backed up the police account of what happened.

There's one witness. And a dozen more who say they DIDN'T hear the supposed announcement.

Yet again, body cams would solve the problem. But, we can't have that, can we?
maybe the Louisville pd can't afford them but they should defund them anyway , maybe they should hire a pimp to serve the warrant next time like Seattle are doing .

1. You brought up the ex-pimp in Seattle. What problem do you have the work he's done there and what he's being charged to do?
2. Louisville PD was not defunded. And I seriously doubt any redirecting of certain police work to other, more suitable agencies is going to eat into budgets for body cams.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
How the fook do white supremacists expect some black people to react when white America keeps kicking the black community in the teeth with impunity, when white police officers keep wantonly murdering black people and getting away scot free?

The problem is white supremacist police impunity, lack of accountability - not black anger

Police forces in the US are acting like white supremacist terrorists, and little wonder, there is widespread infiltration of them by white supremacist terrorists

The black anger is totally and utterly justified

White supremacism has no legitimate reason for existence, yet Trump is openly inciting armed Nazi terrorist mobs to roam the streets
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 24, 2020, 05:05:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Hey now. Was he shot in self defense? Did he have priors? Was weed found in his home? What did he do to provoke being shot? We don't know all the facts just yet, so let's not rush to judgment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 05:07:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:51:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:43:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Right, and if Biden was doing the talking Trump currently is celebrating a journalist being shot by police with a rubber bullet, about not accepting the election results, about not pledging a peaceful transition, and his campaign talking about certain states replacing the public's chosen electors with GOP-chosen electors, you would be on here frothing at the mouth about Biden fomenting violence.

What happened in Louisville to the cops is wrong, but so was what happened to Breonna Taylor.

Difference is that someone has been arrested and will be held accountable in one case, but not the other. In Ms. Taylor's case, its simply a case of "shit happens". Once again.
the cops were shot at first and one hit should they have ran away ?

Yes, there were no other options available. No mistakes were made, no misconduct occurred, either before, during or after the proceedings. Wildly and blindly shooting through the walls and doors of two apartments in the middle of the night and ignoring the mortally wounded victim were the only available and justifiable responses. ::)
they were looking for a drug dealer who had this apartment listed as an address, they had a no knock warrant but they did knock and announced themselves after which they were fired at and returned fire tragically killing the innocent girl inside , my question is there are at least 10 shootings weekly we hear about where innocent people (mostly black) are shot in the crossfire including kids but none of those victims are celebrated, there are no marches , no protests. As the law stands they were justified in returning fire  except for cop who shot into another apartment.

How do you know they announced themselves?

Supposedly they had no body cameras.

Its their word against Walker's. He claims he thought it was the ex-boyfriend or burglars trying to bust in. An ex-boyfriend who had been arrested across town before any of this shit went down and they riddled two apartments with bullets like some mob hit. If all that's legal except for the other apartment, then the law is an ass.

As for those killed in the crossfire of gang wars and so on, they're killed by criminals, NOT agents of the state who are supposed to be the good guys representing and protecting everyone. And despite conservative whataboutery, there are many, many people, politicians and organizations working 24/7 to make things better. And even if there weren't, that still wouldn't invalidate the protests.
there are witnesses who backed up the police account of what happened.

There's one witness. And a dozen more who say they DIDN'T hear the supposed announcement.

Yet again, body cams would solve the problem. But, we can't have that, can we?
maybe the Louisville pd can't afford them but they should defund them anyway , maybe they should hire a pimp to serve the warrant next time like Seattle are doing .

1. You brought up the ex-pimp in Seattle. What problem do you have the work he's done there and what he's being charged to do?
2. Louisville PD was not defunded. And I seriously doubt any redirecting of certain police work to other, more suitable agencies is going to eat into budgets for body cams.
one thing I think is clear is serving warrants at 1am is a terrible idea.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 05:54:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 24, 2020, 05:05:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 24, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Watching cnn and their talking about trump encouraging violent protests while a cop was shot in the background in Louisville, what a sc**bag news station .

Hey now. Was he shot in self defense? Did he have priors? Was weed found in his home? What did he do to provoke being shot? We don't know all the facts just yet, so let's not rush to judgment.
2 cops actually and larynzo Johnson has been arrested and charged with 14 counts of endangerment on police officers, homeboy won't see the light of day again , hope it was worth it .
Both cops will be ok .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 24, 2020, 10:51:29 PM
Leaked chat logs from an Oregon right-wing militia group detail members' discussions about stockpiling arms and ammunition, strategizing about how to spark violence at protests, and even advocating for attacking Democratic politicians. One of the group's most outspoken members advised the others to ignore weapons statutes and encouraged them to bring bats, mace, and stun guns to protests. Another member told group members not to freeze paintballs for maximum damage, but rather to invest in "glass breaker balls that are rubber coated metal." And yet another member advocated for "taking care of the justice ourselves" by going after "our DA and then move on to the governor."
Meanwhile, Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf testified to senators yesterday that white supremacist extremists pose the "most persistent and lethal threat" when it comes to domestic terrorism. Make no mistake: Trump is fueling the rise in right-wing extremism and political violence. The real threat to law and order is not Black Lives Matter protesters taking to the streets to demand justice, as Trump claims — it's the far-right militia members and vigilantes he is actively encouraging.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 03:12:24 AM
Less than a week to first debate , will joe show ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ball Hopper on September 25, 2020, 03:18:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 03:12:24 AM
Less than a week to first debate , will joe show ?

There's no show like a Joe show.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2020, 07:56:38 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 25, 2020, 10:15:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2020, 07:56:38 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

That source's homepage  ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)
(http://ibb.co/tqsZ81b)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: five points on September 25, 2020, 10:15:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2020, 07:56:38 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

That source's homepage  ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)
(http://ibb.co/tqsZ81b)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/)

And??

There is literally at least a dozen different pollng outfits listed as the source for 538's piece.

The graph shows the spread very nicely in green and orange.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on September 25, 2020, 12:50:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: five points on September 25, 2020, 10:15:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2020, 07:56:38 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

That source's homepage  ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)
(http://ibb.co/tqsZ81b)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/)

And??

There is literally at least a dozen different pollng outfits listed as the source for 538's piece.

The graph shows the spread very nicely in green and orange.

Its homepage confirms that it's still a ridiculously partisan source. And in the US it's easy to find "at least a dozen" pollster sources that will say whatever you want them to say.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2020, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: five points on September 25, 2020, 12:50:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: five points on September 25, 2020, 10:15:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2020, 07:56:38 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

That source's homepage  ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)
(http://ibb.co/tqsZ81b)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/)

And??

There is literally at least a dozen different pollng outfits listed as the source for 538's piece.

The graph shows the spread very nicely in green and orange.

Its homepage confirms that it's still a ridiculously partisan source. And in the US it's easy to find "at least a dozen" pollster sources that will say whatever you want them to say.

It does nothing of the sort.

538 is highly reputable and Nate Silver very respected. Along with Real Clear Politics it is the leading compiler of polling data from across the board.

But, don't mind me, go ahead and post some of what you consider legitimate poll material on Trump's job approval.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 02:47:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2020, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: five points on September 25, 2020, 12:50:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: five points on September 25, 2020, 10:15:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 25, 2020, 07:56:38 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

That source's homepage  ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)
(http://ibb.co/tqsZ81b)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/)

And??

There is literally at least a dozen different pollng outfits listed as the source for 538's piece.

The graph shows the spread very nicely in green and orange.

Its homepage confirms that it's still a ridiculously partisan source. And in the US it's easy to find "at least a dozen" pollster sources that will say whatever you want them to say.

It does nothing of the sort.

538 is highly reputable and Nate Silver very respected. Along with Real Clear Politics it is the leading compiler of polling data from across the board.

But, don't mind me, go ahead and post some of what you consider legitimate poll material on Trump's job approval.
That poster thinks anything even slightly to the left of the Daily Stormer is a communist rag
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
538 also has jumped around from one media company to another over the years. They were under the NY Times for a while, then ESPN, then moved to ESPN's sister company ABC.

Silver operates it though, not those companies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
538 also has jumped around from one media company to another over the years. They were under the NY Times for a while, then ESPN, then moved to ESPN's sister company ABC.

Silver operates it though, not those companies.
are they reporting  anything about the new revelations about the Flynn case the, mueller hoax or the Biden's being more corrupt than the clintons ?  no didn't think so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 25, 2020, 06:53:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
538 also has jumped around from one media company to another over the years. They were under the NY Times for a while, then ESPN, then moved to ESPN's sister company ABC.

Silver operates it though, not those companies.
are they reporting  anything about the new revelations about the Flynn case the, mueller hoax or the Biden's being more corrupt than the clintons ?  no didn't think so

538 reports polling data, not Fox News talking points.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 25, 2020, 07:44:22 PM
Friendly reminder that the right is by far the biggest threat to American lives today. Bigger than any supposed threat from the left, bigger than any threat from jihadists, and these terrorists are now being celebrated by mainstream Rethuglicans.

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/120261144_984604165377957_738407225270329666_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=kieBQP8vlA0AX_zFOs_&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=06b4a00b8af1442a0def41d38bab3c74&oe=5F94C8CB)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2020, 08:17:44 PM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/south-carolina/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on September 25, 2020, 03:18:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 03:12:24 AM
Less than a week to first debate , will joe show ?

There's no show like a Joe show.
joe might think he's 17 again and  swing for trump , wonder will he conveniently be exposed to someone with covid and go into quarantine .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 24, 2020, 10:51:29 PM
Meanwhile, Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf
Another corrupt Wolf of (Build the) Wall Street

Quotehttps://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1308965648668729344

Something you may have missing in the scandal blizzard:
Since Chad Wolf started working for DHS, his wife's firm has received millions in DHS contracts. (Wolf is in the midst of being formally confirmed after running DHS illegally for months.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:19:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on September 25, 2020, 03:18:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 03:12:24 AM
Less than a week to first debate , will joe show ?

There's no show like a Joe show.
joe might think he's 17 again and  swing for trump , wonder will he conveniently be exposed to someone with covid and go into quarantine .
It's Trump who's into swinging with 17 year olds, mate

Although he apparently likes them much younger than that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:19:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on September 25, 2020, 03:18:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 03:12:24 AM
Less than a week to first debate , will joe show ?

There's no show like a Joe show.
joe might think he's 17 again and  swing for trump , wonder will he conveniently be exposed to someone with covid and go into quarantine .
It's Trump who's into swinging with 17 year olds, mate

Although he apparently likes them much younger than that
who will you be voting for again ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:27:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 25, 2020, 07:44:22 PM
Friendly reminder that the right is by far the biggest threat to American lives today. Bigger than any supposed threat from the left, bigger than any threat from jihadists, and these terrorists are now being celebrated by mainstream Rethuglicans.

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/120261144_984604165377957_738407225270329666_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=kieBQP8vlA0AX_zFOs_&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=06b4a00b8af1442a0def41d38bab3c74&oe=5F94C8CB)

Trump goon in the media blaming Breonna Taylor for her own murder now

I don't even want to imagine the rationalisation somebody could dream up for saying such a thing

I hope he never has a daughter that gets murdered by police for no reason - he's white and wealthy, so luckily for him, he won't

https://www.mediamatters.org/grant-stinchfield/newsmaxs-grant-stinchfield-blames-breonna-taylor-her-own-killing-she-made-some

Newsmax's Grant Stinchfield blames Breonna Taylor for her own killing: "She made some awful choices along the way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:19:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on September 25, 2020, 03:18:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 03:12:24 AM
Less than a week to first debate , will joe show ?

There's no show like a Joe show.
joe might think he's 17 again and  swing for trump , wonder will he conveniently be exposed to someone with covid and go into quarantine .
It's Trump who's into swinging with 17 year olds, mate

Although he apparently likes them much younger than that
who will you be voting for again ?
I won't be voting as I live in Éire

You seem to have a problem with people who don't live in America having perfectly legitimate opinions about America

That seems like cancel culture to me, telling people whose opinion you don't like to shut up

Your silence on the Trump paedophilia allegation is noted





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 09:51:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:19:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on September 25, 2020, 03:18:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 03:12:24 AM
Less than a week to first debate , will joe show ?

There's no show like a Joe show.
joe might think he's 17 again and  swing for trump , wonder will he conveniently be exposed to someone with covid and go into quarantine .
It's Trump who's into swinging with 17 year olds, mate

Although he apparently likes them much younger than that
who will you be voting for again ?
I won't be voting as I live in Éire

You seem to have a problem with people who don't live in America having perfectly legitimate opinions about America

That seems like cancel culture to me, telling people whose opinion you don't like to shut up

Your silence on the Trump paedophilia allegation is noted
Your opinions are formed by podcasts or twitter though not real life experiences.
Like the guy at the pub telling you who played well in a game down the local gaa field but he never goes to any game . When I am the loudest most prolific poster on an Irish political thread please tell me to stfu .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 10:09:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 09:51:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:19:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on September 25, 2020, 03:18:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 03:12:24 AM
Less than a week to first debate , will joe show ?

There's no show like a Joe show.
joe might think he's 17 again and  swing for trump , wonder will he conveniently be exposed to someone with covid and go into quarantine .
It's Trump who's into swinging with 17 year olds, mate

Although he apparently likes them much younger than that
who will you be voting for again ?
I won't be voting as I live in Éire

You seem to have a problem with people who don't live in America having perfectly legitimate opinions about America

That seems like cancel culture to me, telling people whose opinion you don't like to shut up

Your silence on the Trump paedophilia allegation is noted
Your opinions are formed by podcasts or twitter though not real life experiences.
Like the guy at the pub telling you who played well in a game down the local gaa field but he never goes to any game . When I am the loudest most prolific poster on an Irish political thread please tell me to stfu .
My views are formed by facts, by the truth

Your opinions are certainly not formed by real life experiences, no more than they are by facts

You sound like somebody who spends their life in a broom cupboard

No offence

But you come across as one of thickest eejits to ever lay fingers on a keyboard

And you're still silent on the Trump paedophilia allegation, which is highly credible

People are therefore entitled to draw their own conclusions about what your own views on paedophilia are likely to be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 10:20:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 10:09:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 09:51:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 09:19:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on September 25, 2020, 03:18:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 03:12:24 AM
Less than a week to first debate , will joe show ?

There's no show like a Joe show.
joe might think he's 17 again and  swing for trump , wonder will he conveniently be exposed to someone with covid and go into quarantine .
It's Trump who's into swinging with 17 year olds, mate

Although he apparently likes them much younger than that
who will you be voting for again ?
I won't be voting as I live in Éire

You seem to have a problem with people who don't live in America having perfectly legitimate opinions about America

That seems like cancel culture to me, telling people whose opinion you don't like to shut up

Your silence on the Trump paedophilia allegation is noted
Your opinions are formed by podcasts or twitter though not real life experiences.
Like the guy at the pub telling you who played well in a game down the local gaa field but he never goes to any game . When I am the loudest most prolific poster on an Irish political thread please tell me to stfu .
My views are formed by facts, by the truth

Your opinions are certainly not formed by real life experiences, no more than they are by facts

You sound like somebody who spends their life in a broom cupboard

No offence

But you come across as one of thickest eejits to ever lay fingers on a keyboard

And you're still silent on the Trump paedophilia allegation, which is highly credible

People are therefore entitled to draw their own conclusions about what your own views on paedophilia are likely to be
iOn November 3rd I will be voting while you will be posting . Ta ta
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 26, 2020, 01:06:40 AM
Was it gmac who just discovered a couple of weeks ago that cop unions aren't pro Democrat? Or was it some other poster who thinks you can't know what's going on here unless you live here?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 26, 2020, 03:23:17 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 26, 2020, 01:06:40 AM
Was it gmac who just discovered a couple of weeks ago that cop unions aren't pro Democrat? Or was it some other poster who thinks you can't know what's going on here unless you live here?
a very recent development, probably started when  Democrats started endorsing violence against police
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 10:17:23 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 26, 2020, 03:23:17 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 26, 2020, 01:06:40 AM
Was it gmac who just discovered a couple of weeks ago that cop unions aren't pro Democrat? Or was it some other poster who thinks you can't know what's going on here unless you live here?
a very recent development, probably started when  Democrats started endorsing violence against police
It's impossible not to imagine Cletus the slack jawed yokel from the Simpsons when reading this, the sheer dumb inanity of it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2020, 02:31:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 26, 2020, 03:23:17 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 26, 2020, 01:06:40 AM
Was it gmac who just discovered a couple of weeks ago that cop unions aren't pro Democrat? Or was it some other poster who thinks you can't know what's going on here unless you live here?
a very recent development, probably started when  Democrats started endorsing violence against police

When was that now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2020, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
538 also has jumped around from one media company to another over the years. They were under the NY Times for a while, then ESPN, then moved to ESPN's sister company ABC.

Silver operates it though, not those companies.
are they reporting  anything about the new revelations about the Flynn case the, mueller hoax or the Biden's being more corrupt than the clintons ?  no didn't think so

They're a f**king polling outfit.

You've got the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Gateway Pundit, Fox News etc to report your fever swamp and QAnon delusions. Some GOP candidates too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 26, 2020, 03:47:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2020, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
538 also has jumped around from one media company to another over the years. They were under the NY Times for a while, then ESPN, then moved to ESPN's sister company ABC.

Silver operates it though, not those companies.
are they reporting  anything about the new revelations about the Flynn case the, mueller hoax or the Biden's being more corrupt than the clintons ?  no didn't think so

They're a f**king polling outfit.

You've got the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Gateway Pundit, Fox News etc to report your fever swamp and QAnon delusions. Some GOP candidates too.
look at their homepage they also do news or dnc talking points .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on September 26, 2020, 07:26:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?ab_channel=PBSNewsHour&v=wOHU9xo_Pws


Fact checking fake viral facebook video
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2020, 09:12:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 26, 2020, 03:47:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 26, 2020, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 25, 2020, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
538 also has jumped around from one media company to another over the years. They were under the NY Times for a while, then ESPN, then moved to ESPN's sister company ABC.

Silver operates it though, not those companies.
are they reporting  anything about the new revelations about the Flynn case the, mueller hoax or the Biden's being more corrupt than the clintons ?  no didn't think so

They're a f**king polling outfit.

You've got the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Gateway Pundit, Fox News etc to report your fever swamp and QAnon delusions. Some GOP candidates too.
look at their homepage they also do news or dnc talking points .

What are the DNC talking points on their homepage?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 09:19:04 PM
GMac thinks Rush Limbaugh, Gateway Pundit and Fox News are "straight down the middle"

Explains a lot about him

Presumably the Daily Stormer are "liberal centrist" or something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 09:47:59 PM
Portland is in a state of emergency as neo-Nazi terrorists the "Proud Boys" assemble with the specific intent of inflicting violence

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2020, 06:15:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 26, 2020, 03:23:17 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 26, 2020, 01:06:40 AM
Was it gmac who just discovered a couple of weeks ago that cop unions aren't pro Democrat? Or was it some other poster who thinks you can't know what's going on here unless you live here?
a very recent development, probably started when  Democrats started endorsing violence against police

Sweet. Mother. Of. God.

What the hell is the matter with these conservatives? They'd argue a black crow white. No wonder they're dropping dead from Covid after denouncing masks as an Illuminati conspiracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 27, 2020, 11:19:50 PM
Trump's taxes  :o Even worse than expected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 11:55:37 PM
Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

As the president wages a re-election campaign that polls say he is in danger of losing, his finances are under stress, beset by losses and hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due that he has personally guaranteed. Also hanging over him is a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses. An adverse ruling could cost him more than $100 million.

The tax returns that Mr. Trump has long fought to keep private tell a story fundamentally different from the one he has sold to the American public. His reports to the I.R.S. portray a businessman who takes in hundreds of millions of dollars a year yet racks up chronic losses that he aggressively employs to avoid paying taxes. Now, with his financial challenges mounting, the records show that he depends more and more on making money from businesses that put him in potential and often direct conflict of interest with his job as president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 28, 2020, 12:17:05 AM
FAKE NEWS!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 28, 2020, 12:31:44 AM
So Private Bonespurs is a useless businessman. No wonder the US has record national debt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2020, 12:36:24 AM
He'll cry and whinge and lash out, but I guarantee you he will not do the simple thing which would make this go away and release his tax records.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 28, 2020, 12:58:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 28, 2020, 12:36:24 AM
He'll cry and whinge and lash out, but I guarantee you he will not do the simple thing which would make this go away and release his tax records.
Of course not and the fact that he is up to his oxters in debt means he could be at the mercy of offers of payment from unscrupulous bad actors (if anyone can think of any foreign powers that fit this description...)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 28, 2020, 12:59:57 AM
I can.  Their name rhymes with Benjamin Disraeli.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2020, 05:09:10 PM
Utterly unsurprising. He bankrupted a casino, FFS. Who manages to be so incompetent that they can't make a profit running a casino?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2020, 05:21:02 PM
"I'm only going to hire the best people!" he said. How many of them are in jail now? And now one of them's been led to the funny farm by the men in white coats. You couldn't make this stuff up:

Trump former campaign manager hospitalized after threat to harm himself (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/trump-ex-campaign-boss-hospitalized-amid-threat-to-harm-self)

President Donald Trump's former campaign manager Brad Parscale has been hospitalized after he threatened to harm himself, according to Florida police and campaign officials.

Police officers talked Parscale out of his Fort Lauderdale home after his wife called police to say that he had multiple firearms and was threatening to hurt himself when he was hospitalized Sunday under the state's Baker Act. That act allows anyone deemed to be a threat to themselves or others to be detained for 72 hours for psychiatric evaluation.

Full story... (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/trump-ex-campaign-boss-hospitalized-amid-threat-to-harm-self)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 28, 2020, 05:25:23 PM
Republicans HATE Black people voting

Pretty frightening surveillance implications too

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1310584937356103686

EXCLUSIVE: Channel 4 News investigation reveals a huge Trump campaign data leak, exposing how 3.5 million Black Americans were listed as 'Deterrence' - to try to stop them voting in 2016.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 28, 2020, 11:44:18 PM
More on "the best people..."

Police took 10 guns from Trump associate's Florida home after wife showed them bruises

Fort Lauderdale police confiscated 10 guns Sunday from the home of President Donald Trump's former reelection campaign manager after his wife told them he was suicidal, hits her, and racked a handgun during an argument, according to newly released police reports.

Brad Parscale, 44, was involuntarily hospitalized under Florida's Baker Act by officers and taken to Broward Health Medical Center Sunday after isolating himself in the $2.4 million home he shares in Fort Lauderdale's Seven Isles with his wife, Candice. In reports, audio and body camera footage released Monday, police documented a tense scene in which Parscale — after possibly firing a shot inside his house — initially refused to leave his home and was ultimately tackled by officers on the street when he emerged shirtless with a beer in his hand.

Full story... (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article246062390.html?fbclid=IwAR3RczlR31qlrFO4TgRzTV9NjOsYY0YQZijCFCcTiickR9NjLlv2zsUB9w0)

Skip to 2:27 in the video for a preview of how Trump will hopefully go down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 12:33:24 AM
Nah, I hope Biden beats him so well that he won't be able to appeal to his thuggish followers about "voter fraud" and he has to sit there for nearly three months in abject humiliation as a "one time loser" (his words), while Biden and the Democrats talk loudly about all the abhorrent, bigoted, anti-intellectual policies they're going to roll back.

Knowing he has to sit there when the country has told him to f**k off back to Mara Lago and think about his legacy as one of the worst presidents ever... way more satisfying than seeing his blubbery, purulent arse flatten by a couple of cops, fun as that would be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 29, 2020, 03:29:20 PM
The Rock has endorsed Biden/Harris... it's over!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 05:10:44 PM
Does anyone else think that Joe Biden should have listened to Nancy Pellosi and avoided the debate tonight? He didn't have to do it.

Hard to think he'll get through this unscathed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 06:16:37 PM
Joes camp won't go through with an inspection to make sure he's not wearing an ear piece before tonight's debate , something that was agreed to earlier . joes camp looking for an exit strategy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Next thing you know they'll be saying he got the questions in advance  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 06:27:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 06:16:37 PM
Joes camp won't go through with an inspection to make sure he's not wearing an ear piece before tonight's debate , something that was agreed to earlier . joes camp looking for an exit strategy

Trump was accusing Biden of drug enhanced performances. He's not Ben Johnson in the Olympics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 06:28:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Next thing you know they'll be saying he got the questions in advance  ::)

Trump may get a bit of help from Fox News tonight. He'll need it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 06:30:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 06:16:37 PM
Joes camp won't go through with an inspection to make sure he's not wearing an ear piece before tonight's debate , something that was agreed to earlier . joes camp looking for an exit strategy

;D ;D

Trump's getting desperate.

Maybe Biden should show them his ear canals in exchange for the release of Trump's tax returns.

Thing is that, even if Biden did accede to being patted down and buzzed for electronic devices, the lunatic right would be out tomorrow with reports of some microscopic earpiece that Biden supposedly could have hidden deep in his ear. Or maybe a brain implant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 06:34:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Next thing you know they'll be saying he got the questions in advance  ::)

Yes, I hear someone slipped it to Biden that the COVID pandemic might be up for discussion.

Might be a question in there too about the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 06:38:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 06:34:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Next thing you know they'll be saying he got the questions in advance  ::)

Yes, I hear someone slipped it to Biden that the COVID pandemic might be up for discussion.

Might be a question in there too about the Supreme Court.

Russian Collusion will come up for sure. Trump will try to lie about 2016 and make allegations about Hunter's connections to the Moscow mayors wife.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:54:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 06:34:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Next thing you know they'll be saying he got the questions in advance  ::)

Yes, I hear someone slipped it to Biden that the COVID pandemic might be up for discussion.

Might be a question in there too about the Supreme Court.


They are already doing it.  One of his team linked to a story from a former Fox news guy who linked an interview from a former conspiracy theorist who used to work at Infowars - https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1310977008080424961
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:57:51 PM
try harder next time chief
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 07:07:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:54:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 06:34:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Next thing you know they'll be saying he got the questions in advance  ::)

Yes, I hear someone slipped it to Biden that the COVID pandemic might be up for discussion.

Might be a question in there too about the Supreme Court.


They are already doing it.  One of his team linked to a story from a former Fox news guy who linked an interview from a former conspiracy theorist who used to work at Infowars - https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1310977008080424961

That guy Todd Starnes is so far off in lulaland that even Fox News fired him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 06:57:51 PM
try harder next time chief

:P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

I'll probably regret this, but what are you on about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.

I have to ask - what is going to replace white christian america and what sort of changes can you expect to see?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 09:34:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

I'll probably regret this, but what are you on about?

Sure didn't ya know - Ilhan Omar married her brother and had people associated with her "caught" harvesting votes by convicted criminal James O'Keefe and his widely discredited Project Veritas outfit.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.

I have to ask - what is going to replace white christian america and what sort of changes can you expect to see?

A multicultural society where its ok to be gay or transgender or non-white or non-christian.

Its already there in much of the country.

But a significant minority feel that their right to discriminate is being discriminated against. They happen to be a major constituency of the GOP and Trump's base, and being a more rural demographic than their liberal opponents, they wield power beyond their numbers due to the quirks of the US federal system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:52:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 09:34:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

I'll probably regret this, but what are you on about?

Sure didn't ya know - Ilhan Omar married her brother and had people associated with her "caught" harvesting votes by convicted criminal James O'Keefe and his widely discredited Project Veritas outfit.

O'Keefe has reared his head again? Figures.

I'm sure his absolutely not-edited or doctored video will make a huge splash this time!

Although, he does have an enthusiastic conspiracy theorist in the White House at the moment who'll no doubt lap it up.

Isn't ballot harvesting legal in many states?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 10:02:04 PM
Trump retweeted the Breitbart story about it of course.

It is legal - and is currently legal in Minnesota where O'Keefe's story was based.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 10:07:31 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 10:02:04 PM
Trump retweeted the Breitbart story about it of course.

It is legal - and is currently legal in Minnesota where O'Keefe's story was based.
you can deliver up to 3 absences ballots currently on Minnesota.
These nice Somali gentlemen had hundreds
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.

I have to ask - what is going to replace white christian america and what sort of changes can you expect to see?

A multicultural society where its ok to be gay or transgender or non-white or non-christian.

Its already there in much of the country.

But a significant minority feel that their right to discriminate is being discriminated against. They happen to be a major constituency of the GOP and Trump's base, and being a more rural demographic than their liberal opponents, they wield power beyond their numbers due to the quirks of the US federal system.

ok. I always had the impression that it was already fairly open to all races and genders and it was more a numbers thing.  Barack Obama did manage to become president so it can't be that discriminatory.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 29, 2020, 10:11:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:52:55 PM

O'Keefe has reared his head again? Figures.

I'm sure his absolutely not-edited or doctored video will make a huge splash this time!


The video is laughable, but the herd mentality fools will lap it up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 29, 2020, 10:14:14 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/120356657_10221751100140101_941893540511181804_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=iNrIFT50gbQAX-YTupr&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=3fe6c55dc62be5152b186c0584c98d84&oe=5F99E54E)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.

I have to ask - what is going to replace white christian america and what sort of changes can you expect to see?

A multicultural society where its ok to be gay or transgender or non-white or non-christian.

Its already there in much of the country.

But a significant minority feel that their right to discriminate is being discriminated against. They happen to be a major constituency of the GOP and Trump's base, and being a more rural demographic than their liberal opponents, they wield power beyond their numbers due to the quirks of the US federal system.

ok. I always had the impression that it was already fairly open to all races and genders and it was more a numbers thing.  Barack Obama did manage to become president so it can't be that discriminatory.

And as soon as Obama became president there was a massive racist backlash against him based on nothing other than the colour of his skin, and that backlash is stronger than ever now in 2020

The achievements of outstanding people of colour in the face of a system stacked against them do not demonstrate that the system is fair, they demonstrate that these people of colour are undeniably outstanding people who could not be held back by even a rigged system

Trump is manifestly not outstanding, except in awfulness - he's the very definition of useless white privilege

Obama's election in fact demonstrated just how much of a white supremacist system America still is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 10:47:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.

I have to ask - what is going to replace white christian america and what sort of changes can you expect to see?

A multicultural society where its ok to be gay or transgender or non-white or non-christian.

Its already there in much of the country.

But a significant minority feel that their right to discriminate is being discriminated against. They happen to be a major constituency of the GOP and Trump's base, and being a more rural demographic than their liberal opponents, they wield power beyond their numbers due to the quirks of the US federal system.

ok. I always had the impression that it was already fairly open to all races and genders and it was more a numbers thing.  Barack Obama did manage to become president so it can't be that discriminatory.

And as soon as Obama became president there was a massive racist backlash against him based on nothing other than the colour of his skin, and that backlash is stronger than ever now in 2020

The achievements of outstanding people of colour in the face of a system stacked against them do not demonstrate that the system is fair, they demonstrate that these people of colour are undeniably outstanding people who could not be held back by even a rigged system

Trump is manifestly not outstanding, except in awfulness - he's the very definition of useless white privilege

Obama's election in fact demonstrated just how much of a white supremacist system America still is

Nothing says white supremacy like electing a black president by a landslide... twice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 10:49:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.

I have to ask - what is going to replace white christian america and what sort of changes can you expect to see?

A multicultural society where its ok to be gay or transgender or non-white or non-christian.

Its already there in much of the country.

But a significant minority feel that their right to discriminate is being discriminated against. They happen to be a major constituency of the GOP and Trump's base, and being a more rural demographic than their liberal opponents, they wield power beyond their numbers due to the quirks of the US federal system.

ok. I always had the impression that it was already fairly open to all races and genders and it was more a numbers thing.  Barack Obama did manage to become president so it can't be that discriminatory.

And as soon as Obama became president there was a massive racist backlash against him based on nothing other than the colour of his skin, and that backlash is stronger than ever now in 2020

The achievements of outstanding people of colour in the face of a system stacked against them do not demonstrate that the system is fair, they demonstrate that these people of colour are undeniably outstanding people who could not be held back by even a rigged system

Trump is manifestly not outstanding, except in awfulness - he's the very definition of useless white privilege

Obama's election in fact demonstrated just how much of a white supremacist system America still is
2am before the debate gets going in Eire will you be able to stay up or will you rely on Twitter to tell you what happened?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 11:00:46 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 10:47:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.

I have to ask - what is going to replace white christian america and what sort of changes can you expect to see?

A multicultural society where its ok to be gay or transgender or non-white or non-christian.

Its already there in much of the country.

But a significant minority feel that their right to discriminate is being discriminated against. They happen to be a major constituency of the GOP and Trump's base, and being a more rural demographic than their liberal opponents, they wield power beyond their numbers due to the quirks of the US federal system.

ok. I always had the impression that it was already fairly open to all races and genders and it was more a numbers thing.  Barack Obama did manage to become president so it can't be that discriminatory.

And as soon as Obama became president there was a massive racist backlash against him based on nothing other than the colour of his skin, and that backlash is stronger than ever now in 2020

The achievements of outstanding people of colour in the face of a system stacked against them do not demonstrate that the system is fair, they demonstrate that these people of colour are undeniably outstanding people who could not be held back by even a rigged system

Trump is manifestly not outstanding, except in awfulness - he's the very definition of useless white privilege

Obama's election in fact demonstrated just how much of a white supremacist system America still is

Nothing says white supremacy like electing a black president by a landslide... twice.
No offence but that's like something a child would say and completely refuses to engage with the point, which is undeniably correct

In 2008 there were all these empty platitudes about how race supposedly no longer mattered

What happened subsequently proved that totally untrue, it was proven that the opposite was true

Race was in fact the most important dividing line in US politics and America was as white supremacist as it ever was, and what's more, the white supremacists were now emboldened

Donald Trump was a nakedly white supremacist backlash against the "affrontery" of a black man winning


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2020, 11:53:31 PM
Trump's team have already sent out a fundraising email saying that he won the debate

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjHdqgAU0AE9H-n?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 30, 2020, 12:08:21 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 11:15:09 PM
What time is this debate and is it being streamed anywhere? I think it'll be comedy gold.

9pm eastern, 2am Irish Time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2020, 12:59:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 11:00:46 PM
No offence but that's like something a child would say and completely refuses to engage with the point, which is undeniably correct

In 2008 there were all these empty platitudes about how race supposedly no longer mattered

What happened subsequently proved that totally untrue, it was proven that the opposite was true

Race was in fact the most important dividing line in US politics and America was as white supremacist as it ever was, and what's more, the white supremacists were now emboldened

Donald Trump was a nakedly white supremacist backlash against the "affrontery" of a black man winning

Indeed. Obama was squeaky clean. No infidelity. No fraud. No controversial statements on record. No skeletons in his closet. The closest they could get to digging up "dirt" on him was the Jeramiah Wright business and try to do a guilt-by-association job on him because apparently he went to the same church as him once, which was a bit of a loose connection and unsurprisingly it got the Rethuglicans nowhere.

A white candidate does not need to be as squeaky clean, as the much-married, porn-star-bribing fraudster Trump has demonstrated. I remember when the RWNJs were bleating about how "divisive" Obama supposedly was, which was the precise opposite of what he was. Obama in my opinion understated how divided the country was. He tried to play it down, repeating his "there's more that unites us than divides us" mantra. And still complained about his "divisiveness."

"How dare he be so black" seemed to be their only complaint. Maybe he just helped to scratch the conservative surface and reveal the nakedly racist hatred that lies beneath.

And the "post racial America" BS is just laughable. The idea that racism was abolished in America the day Obama was elected is one of the more hilarious talking points from the right, coming as they do as black people continue to live their lives in fear of the police and the racist white people who are so quick to call them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 30, 2020, 01:00:47 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/HkCjhXYB/Screen-Shot-2020-09-29-at-5-00-10-PM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2020, 01:13:05 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/120187161_988221611682879_8958020988552431202_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=WIYKaM6D9OYAX_T_2yX&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=26fe812448e3a88edacf0e64c0fd3e2f&oe=5F99955E)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 30, 2020, 01:36:10 AM
A not so bold prediction. Trump to be awful in this upcoming debate yet his followers will say he was great.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 30, 2020, 03:02:29 AM
It's 2 old dudes shouting at each other nobody is winning this shitshow which means Biden is!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 30, 2020, 03:05:25 AM
Just watching the debate. I was trying to figure out how to figure out when Trump was lying and my smart wife told me...that's simple. Every time his lips are moving he's lying.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 30, 2020, 03:13:52 AM
Trump keeps interrupting. Biden with the best line.  You wouldn't know a suburb unless you took a wrong turn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 30, 2020, 03:33:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 30, 2020, 03:02:29 AM
It's 2 old dudes shouting at each other nobody is winning this shitshow which means Biden is!!!

Think one old man was doing most of the shouting.... As always, false equivalence even from a benevolent viewpoint does not help democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 03:34:33 AM
Trump literally told white supremacists to "stand by"

"Stand by" means stand ready to attack

Trump has been every bit as execrable as I expected

You'd literally get more sense out of a four year old child

Evil in action

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 30, 2020, 03:52:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 03:34:33 AM
Trump literally told white supremacists to "stand by"

"Stand by" means stand ready to attack

Trump has been every bit as execrable as I expected

You'd literally get more sense out of a four year old child

Evil in action

Perhaps in the words of Barney Frank... you might substitute "the leg of a table or chair" for the child.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 03:56:06 AM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2020, 03:52:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 03:34:33 AM
Trump literally told white supremacists to "stand by"

"Stand by" means stand ready to attack

Trump has been every bit as execrable as I expected

You'd literally get more sense out of a four year old child

Evil in action

Perhaps in the words of Barney Frank... you might substitute "the leg of a table or chair" for the child.
The proverbial inanimate carbon rod looks like FDR and Lincoln put together compared to Trump

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on September 30, 2020, 05:00:43 AM
Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 07:54:52 AM
Biden refusing to condemn Antifa.
Trump refusing to condemn proud boys.

How did America get to this point?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2020, 08:05:19 AM
I didn't watch. Just couldn't put myself through that orange lowlife's sordid freakshow. Sounds like it was a wise decision.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: MoChara on September 30, 2020, 08:27:40 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 07:54:52 AM
Biden refusing to condemn Antifa.
Trump refusing to condemn proud boys.

How did America get to this point?

I don't think AntiFa have any love for Biden, but proud boys etc do love their trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on September 30, 2020, 09:43:58 AM
Biden started very slowly, Trump started reasonably well, got in a couple of witty digs. But then couldn't stop himself being a complete ignorant buffoon for the rest of the debate. Appealing to the base of his base I guess. Trump is good at deflecting questions so he only talks about and around the sound bytes he wants to talk about. Very little depth. 

Biden is clearly superior about discussing policy, albeit when he starts talking about specific numbers, he often had to correct himself. But after the slow start he performed reasonably competently. He did lose the rag twice 'shut up' and 'clown', which was twice too many, but a lot better than many people would have done in the face of the constant interruptions and barbs, and better than being Sleepy Joe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2020, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Quote from: Roesider on September 29, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 29, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 29, 2020, 06:56:15 PM
All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?
they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.
hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.

I have to ask - what is going to replace white christian america and what sort of changes can you expect to see?

A multicultural society where its ok to be gay or transgender or non-white or non-christian.

Its already there in much of the country.

But a significant minority feel that their right to discriminate is being discriminated against. They happen to be a major constituency of the GOP and Trump's base, and being a more rural demographic than their liberal opponents, they wield power beyond their numbers due to the quirks of the US federal system.

ok. I always had the impression that it was already fairly open to all races and genders and it was more a numbers thing.  Barack Obama did manage to become president so it can't be that discriminatory.

Like I said, not an issue in many places. Or maybe even most. But it is an issue for significant minority of the population. The problem for the rest of us is they're over-represented in terms of political power. Obama was an exceptional politician, who also benefited from coming in when people were jaded with Bush and the GOP and the Iraq war and the financial collapse. But even if he wasn't, just because he got a little over 50% of the vote doesn't mean that the views and politics of the slightly less than 50% who voted against him are not a significant factor in American life.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:12:16 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 07:54:52 AM
Biden refusing to condemn Antifa.
Trump refusing to condemn proud boys.

How did America get to this point?
Trump openly encouraged the "Proud Boys" to attack people

The "Proud Boys" are white supremacist terrorists

Antifa means anti-fascism

It's very Orwellian that anybody would ask anybody to condemn anti-fascism - it's something that should be praised thoroughly, not condemned

Your post and false equivalence are deeply instructive as to your views, and very scary if in any way representative of Trump's support - which they are

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2020, 05:00:43 AM
Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.
The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 01:14:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2020, 05:00:43 AM
Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.
The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 01:30:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 01:14:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2020, 05:00:43 AM
Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.
The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.
Some people said that about Hitler in the 1930s
'
We are living through equally dangerous times, frankly anybody who isn't invoking the historical spectre of Hitler as regards Trump isn't paying attention at all

Trump's own defence secretary invoked comparisons to the Nazis about him

I hope you can sleep, actually I hope you can't - I wouldn't if I was so shamelessly on the wrong side of history like you, but I suppose in your case the shamelessness takes care of the sleeping

Another NI Catholic who rejects the lessons of their own their Irish history and then some

People like you were the natural allies of the Glennane Gang and the likes



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2020, 01:33:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 01:14:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2020, 05:00:43 AM
Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.
The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.

Biden is on the record multiple times condemning looting, rioting and other violence which attached itself to the protests.

Where has he asked people to bail out Antifa suspects?

As for Trump, he absolutely has fascist tendencies, whether its the refusal to disavow far right support; his own bigoted rhetoric and policies targeting immigrants, Muslims and LGBT people; his use of state law enforcement to clear peaceful protests and foment violence; and his oft-stated admiration for dictatorial strongmen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 01:37:05 PM
Well worth listening to this podcast series

There are several posters here who are classic victims of the cult of far right internet radicalisation

https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on September 30, 2020, 02:53:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 01:30:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 01:14:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2020, 05:00:43 AM
Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.
The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.
Some people said that about Hitler in the 1930s
'
We are living through equally dangerous times, frankly anybody who isn't invoking the historical spectre of Hitler as regards Trump isn't paying attention at all

Trump's own defence secretary invoked comparisons to the Nazis about him

I hope you can sleep, actually I hope you can't - I wouldn't if I was so shamelessly on the wrong side of history like you, but I suppose in your case the shamelessness takes care of the sleeping

Another NI Catholic who rejects the lessons of their own their Irish history and then some

People like you were the natural allies of the Glennane Gang and the likes

Wise the f**k up Sid - coming out with that shite
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 30, 2020, 03:09:09 PM
If was an embarrassment from start to finish .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 30, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 30, 2020, 03:09:09 PM
If was an embarrassment from start to finish .

At least they can't accuse Joe of wearing a wire... he couldn't be that bad on the figures if he was!!

He was still marginally better than Trump thoguh!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on September 30, 2020, 03:33:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 07:54:52 AM
Biden refusing to condemn Antifa.
Trump refusing to condemn proud boys.

How did America get to this point?

There is key difference.

Proud Boys exist as a structured group. Trump blew the dog whistle and the boys stood proud. Shameful stuff.

Antifa provide a very different. I'm anti-fascist. Many years ago I was a paid up member of an anti fascist organisation. Hopefully everyone on here is anti fascist. Trump and the right cannot bring themselves between anti fascists like myself who can recognise racism when we see it and a minority within antifa and the wider left that probably do go to unacceptable extremes. I don't think Biden would have the least problem condemning those extremes. But the right never ask that question do they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2020, 03:35:21 PM
Wait until the next one when Trump goes apeshit at some audience member who has the audacity to demand a real answer from him in the town hall setting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on September 30, 2020, 03:38:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 01:14:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2020, 05:00:43 AM
Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.
The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.

You could debate all day about Trump is a fascist or not. Who really knows what he believes. But it is unquestionably the case that he is personally willing to stir racial tensions and play to a fascist gallery to get what he wants. Once you see those objective facts he ceases to be fit to hold office right there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on September 30, 2020, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 30, 2020, 03:35:21 PM
Wait until the next one when Trump goes apeshit at some audience member who has the audacity to demand a real answer from him in the town hall setting.

Would even be sure there will be a next one.

Trump and his team agreed to a set of rules for this one and then ignored. The moderator needs to stand up to the participants and a mute button when it's not there turn. They can each be given a right of reply and be given a chance to get their point across - if they have one that is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on September 30, 2020, 03:43:14 PM
It's nothing new, Trump is a cheer boy for the ultra right mobs, that's his base.

The thing is, nothing has worked for Trump, he can't get close to Biden in the polls in the  3 or 4 States that matter. Biden is so far ahead that only if all the undecided in those States suddenly decide to vote Trump, would it be on a knife edge. And it is unprecedented that the undecideds  will decide to vote for the incumbent on the day in any great numbers.   

That's why Trump is in full sabotage disruption mode, he knows he's going to lose. Biden only has to stay on life support to beat this idiot and his VP  should be able to chop up Pence in the next debate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: LCohen on September 30, 2020, 03:33:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 07:54:52 AM
Biden refusing to condemn Antifa.
Trump refusing to condemn proud boys.

How did America get to this point?

There is key difference.

Proud Boys exist as a structured group. Trump blew the dog whistle and the boys stood proud. Shameful stuff.

Antifa provide a very different. I'm anti-fascist. Many years ago I was a paid up member of an anti fascist organisation. Hopefully everyone on here is anti fascist. Trump and the right cannot bring themselves between anti fascists like myself who can recognise racism when we see it and a minority within antifa and the wider left that probably do go to unacceptable extremes. I don't think Biden would have the least problem condemning those extremes. But the right never ask that question do they?
Anybody who is not antifa has abhorrent views

Because anybody who is not antifa is a fascist sympathiser at least

Punching Nazis should always be encouraged because they're, well, Nazis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 30, 2020, 02:53:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 01:30:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2020, 01:14:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: omochain on September 30, 2020, 05:00:43 AM
Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.
The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.
Some people said that about Hitler in the 1930s
'
We are living through equally dangerous times, frankly anybody who isn't invoking the historical spectre of Hitler as regards Trump isn't paying attention at all

Trump's own defence secretary invoked comparisons to the Nazis about him

I hope you can sleep, actually I hope you can't - I wouldn't if I was so shamelessly on the wrong side of history like you, but I suppose in your case the shamelessness takes care of the sleeping

Another NI Catholic who rejects the lessons of their own their Irish history and then some

People like you were the natural allies of the Glennane Gang and the likes

Wise the f**k up Sid - coming out with that shite
I see no reason to spare feelings

What I wrote is entirely legitimate opinion and believe me, I would that tell that person the exact same thing to their face

The only confusion I have is what the user name "Red Hand 88" refers to

Given this is a GAA forum I would have assumed it referred to Tyrone and perhaps the year of birth of that poster or maybe significant year in their lives

But perhaps I was mistaken in that

Given the actual views of that poster one would have to say it's not impossible that "Red Hand 88" may refer to the Red Hand Defenders and "Heil Hitler"

The poster's views are typical of the sort you would expect from people who believe in such stuff

Who knows

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 30, 2020, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 04:47:31 PMGiven the actual views of that poster one would have to say it's not impossible that "Red Hand 88" may refer to the Red Hand Defenders and "Heil Hitler"



Maybe take a few days off Sid - holy f**k 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2020, 06:18:21 PM
Biden's odds have jumped since the debate.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/betting_odds/2020_president/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2020, 06:23:35 PM
Statisticians: Trump interrupted 71 times, Biden interrupted 22 times
Conservatives: Both sides are as bad as the other!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: An Watcher on September 30, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
When is the vice-president debate? Could be worth a watch as well
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on September 30, 2020, 06:57:29 PM
Can forget about any further debates if the moderator is as poor Chris Wallace. Trump as usual came out with some daft comments. To quote Dana Bash it was a shit show.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2020, 07:07:24 PM
They'll need to put them in soundproof booths with mutable microphones next time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 30, 2020, 11:05:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2020, 07:07:24 PM
They'll need to put them in soundproof booths with mutable microphones next time.

Should have been obvious that was needed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 11:20:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 30, 2020, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 04:47:31 PMGiven the actual views of that poster one would have to say it's not impossible that "Red Hand 88" may refer to the Red Hand Defenders and "Heil Hitler"



Maybe take a few days off Sid - holy f**k
You might say "holy f**k" but the poster in question is a pure Trump propagandist, so it's not much of a leap to imagine this stuff

Trump and his regime have consistently dog whistled or offered succour to open white supremacists - as he did last night

Michael Moore was totally accurate when he said "Trump is always lying and yet always telling the truth" - and those dog whistles of support to open white supremacists are the grotesque truth of what he is about - and they are obvious and meant to be heard and understood by everybody

Open white supremacists are his base and it's a very, very short hop from open white supremacists to neo-Nazis - I would say the difference between open white supremacists and neo-Nazis is so small that it is pretty much invisible, as white supremacism is based on all the same assumptions as Nazism

Given that the poster in question is a consistent Trump propagandist who will defend him to the last, come what may, and constantly tell others that they are not really hearing what they actually are hearing, one has to question or surmise what the the real beliefs of such a poster would be

That poster is obviously comfortable with a US president supporting white supremacist organisations (and let's face it - dog whistles are open support, Trump knows it, the media knows it, white supremacists know it, their potential victims know it, everybody knows it)

What does that say about that poster?

It certainly says that the term "Heil Hitler" would not necessarily be an affront to their moral compass, because we already know their moral compass is pretty much non-existent - as it is for all fervent Trump propagandists

We as a people, ie. the people of the world, have sadly have become inured and desensitised to this stuff by constant repetition and we as a people have tended too much to fool ourselves that what is happening isn't really happening, "it couldn't happen there", perhaps because to face up to the truth is too depressing and too frightening

We shouldn't be desensitised - Trump and his regime are genuinely evil

We may not be shocked any more because the barrage of fascist rhetoric and dog whistles is so constant, but that does not make it any more acceptable, it never does

Some may call what I said to the poster in question "abuse" - I say there are legitimate questions to be asked about what to me seem to be obvious abhorrent beliefs that should be an affront to anybody with a shred of humanity

We have long since passed the time where it might have been appropriate to hold back on Nazi comparisons as regards Trump, his regime and his supporters

His own former Defence Secretary James Mattis invoked the Nazis as a comparison to the Trump regime FFS





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 01, 2020, 12:11:39 AM
You don't have the first idea who I am or what my political allegiance is you absolute nutjob. 88 is the year I was born.
It does not mean heil Hitler you clown.

Put down the phone and take a break ffs, this is not healthy for you.

Is there no moderator to stamp out this sort of abuse?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:23:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2020, 12:11:39 AM
You don't have the first idea who I am or what my political allegiance is you absolute nutjob. 88 is the year I was born
It does not mean heil Hitler you clown.

Put down the phone and take a break ffs, this is not healthy for you.
That's good to hear and what I had originally assumed

Still doesn't change the fact your views are horrible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity








Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 12:17:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest
Exactly Taylor. Foaming at the mouth telling people what they should do or think and what it makes them if they don't never works. Doesn't matter how good the intentions are or how morally high they think the ground they're standing on is. All the person on the receiving end sees is, well, someone foaming at the mouth at them. Natural inclination will always be to turn the other way.
Sad to see more of that entrenched mentality creeping its way here across the Atlantic. Brainwashing comes to mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:29:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

You're just playing the pathetic victim card and throwing out inanities

I thought part of the appeal of Trump was that "he tells it like it is" (he does the opposite), that "free speech" was important, that leftwingers were "snowflakes", that they were against "cancel culture" and "shutting down" things

It's all projection

It turns out they are everything they claim they aren't, and the left are not those things at all

All Trump supporters have is fake victimhood

It's hilarious

Time to front up rather than calling for Mammy to protect yis

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

Lolz, the same people who are claim to be "pro-free speech" are calling for me to be shut down

You couldn't make it up

Hurt feelings ahoy

Call for Mammy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 12:17:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest
Exactly Taylor. Foaming at the mouth telling people what they should do or think and what it makes them if they don't never works. Doesn't matter how good the intentions are or how morally high they think the ground they're standing on is. All the person on the receiving end sees is, well, someone foaming at the mouth at them. Natural inclination will always be to turn the other way.
Sad to see more of that entrenched mentality creeping its way here across the Atlantic. Brainwashing comes to mind.

Utter inanity and totally disconnected from reality, it's like a random cliche generator

The problem with Trump supporters is none of them can debate because nobody can seriously defend fascism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:35:38 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?
Their inane cliches are based entirely on a imagined right that hate speech should go unchallenged

It's the Sun/Daily Mail view of the world, they don't live in the real world



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 01, 2020, 12:54:14 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?

Is embarrassing. It's just downright rude. I'm going to mute him, couldn't be bothered with that crap.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 01:38:29 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?
There's zero substance to the posts of far right posters here

They aren't capable of debate

The reason for that is they have decided to inhabit a make, believe fantasy world of perpetual victimhood

They reject the world of reality - and facts, reason and context are an affront to that make believe world view

This is the truth of what has actually happened, it's couldn't be more obvious

You cannot reason with the far right

Somebody like Red Hand 88 isn't capable of reasoning

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 01:40:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2020, 12:54:14 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?

Is embarrassing. It's just downright rude. I'm going to mute him, couldn't be bothered with that crap.

Snowflake

Retreat to your safe space

Call for Mammy to protect you

I thought this was the world you hated

But you are the very epitome of it

Lolz

Trump supporters are so pathetic and weak

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:05:01 PM
Like, there's literally no way to defend this carry on, and why would anybody even try

The Trump regime openly defends a white supremacist murderer

So much for being pro-"law and order", it's pro-chaos and racist murder

There are no "legitimate questions" to ask about this, the Trump regime is pro-white supremacist terror and has always been so

Nazi comparisons are accurate and pertinent

Quotehttps://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/dhs-memo-told-officials-to-make-comments-favorable-to-kenosha-shootings-suspect/2432408/

DHS Memo Told Officials to Make Comments Favorable to Kenosha Shooting Suspect
DHS talking points obtained by NBC News show officials were told to speak sympathetically about Kyle Rittenhouse, the teen charged with killing two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin

Federal law enforcement officials were directed to make public comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager charged with fatally shooting two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, according to internal Department of Homeland Security talking points obtained by NBC News.

In preparing Homeland Security officials for questions about Rittenhouse from the media, the document suggests that they note that he "took his rifle to the scene of the rioting to help defend small business owners."

Another set of talking points distributed to Homeland Security officials said the media were incorrectly labeling the group Patriot Prayer as racists after clashes erupted between the group and protesters in Portland, Oregon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 12:17:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest
Exactly Taylor. Foaming at the mouth telling people what they should do or think and what it makes them if they don't never works. Doesn't matter how good the intentions are or how morally high they think the ground they're standing on is. All the person on the receiving end sees is, well, someone foaming at the mouth at them. Natural inclination will always be to turn the other way.
Sad to see more of that entrenched mentality creeping its way here across the Atlantic. Brainwashing comes to mind.

Utter inanity and totally disconnected from reality, it's like a random cliche generator

The problem with Trump supporters is none of them can debate because nobody can seriously defend fascism
No offence but you sound like you need help
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 12:17:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest
Exactly Taylor. Foaming at the mouth telling people what they should do or think and what it makes them if they don't never works. Doesn't matter how good the intentions are or how morally high they think the ground they're standing on is. All the person on the receiving end sees is, well, someone foaming at the mouth at them. Natural inclination will always be to turn the other way.
Sad to see more of that entrenched mentality creeping its way here across the Atlantic. Brainwashing comes to mind.

Utter inanity and totally disconnected from reality, it's like a random cliche generator

The problem with Trump supporters is none of them can debate because nobody can seriously defend fascism
No offence but you sound like you need help
Thanks but that's not an argument and it's also the exact same thing you've been pretending to complain about - sneering and insulting, "foaming at the mouth" stuff

That makes you a total hypocrite and shows your complaints up to be pure bad faith trolling

You can't be taken seriously with posts like that

If I was to behave like a Trump supporter or the "both sides" merchants I'd now claim fake victimhood and pretend I was being silenced





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 03:07:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 12:17:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest
Exactly Taylor. Foaming at the mouth telling people what they should do or think and what it makes them if they don't never works. Doesn't matter how good the intentions are or how morally high they think the ground they're standing on is. All the person on the receiving end sees is, well, someone foaming at the mouth at them. Natural inclination will always be to turn the other way.
Sad to see more of that entrenched mentality creeping its way here across the Atlantic. Brainwashing comes to mind.

Utter inanity and totally disconnected from reality, it's like a random cliche generator

The problem with Trump supporters is none of them can debate because nobody can seriously defend fascism
No offence but you sound like you need help
Thanks but that's not an argument and it's also the exact same thing you've been pretending to complain about - sneering and insulting, "foaming at the mouth" stuff

That makes you a total hypocrite and shows your complaints up to be pure bad faith trolling

You can't be taken seriously with posts like that

If I was to behave like a Trump supporter or the "both sides" merchants I'd now claim fake victimhood and pretend I was being silenced
Argument? Not here for an argument. Just reading through the thread and you attack everyone. You're not someone to have a discussion with, only argument. Prophesying Armageddon but the only one calling for absolute war and the total obliteration of a certain class because of their political beliefs.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?

Hang on that doesn't make sense.

Ridiculing a poster for something they say is not a freedom of speech issue. Anyone on the right is free to say they like what Trump says. That is their freedom in operation. But given Trump openly stirs race hatred it's fairly obvious that anyone expressing support for Trump is going to be confronted on that. As I say that's not a freedom of speech issue.

Yeah some posters are rude. A lot more will not engage meaningfully in the topic. Keep calling them out. Some are outright evasive. Try getting anyone on the right to accept the difference between mass of people on the left or in BLM and a few violent extremists and they go missing. Try to get anyone on the right to acknowledge Trump's lies and many, many go missing.

Posters evading debate is a much bigger issue than rudeness on this forum. And freedom of speech is not an issue at all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?

Hang on that doesn't make sense.

Ridiculing a poster for something they say is not a freedom of speech issue. Anyone on the right is free to say they like what Trump says. That is their freedom in operation. But given Trump openly stirs race hatred it's fairly obvious that anyone expressing support for Trump is going to be confronted on that. As I say that's not a freedom of speech issue.

Yeah some posters are rude. A lot more will not engage meaningfully in the topic. Keep calling them out. Some are outright evasive. Try getting anyone on the right to accept the difference between mass of people on the left or in BLM and a few violent extremists and they go missing. Try to get anyone on the right to acknowledge Trump's lies and many, many go missing.

Posters evading debate is a much bigger issue than rudeness on this forum. And freedom of speech is not an issue at all

Is it any wonder posters dont want to debate?

A debate is where both sides get to put their point of view across.

Its virtually impossible on this thread.

Some of the posts in the last page or two are shocking.

Thats not debating in any mans book
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 03:07:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 01, 2020, 12:17:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest
Exactly Taylor. Foaming at the mouth telling people what they should do or think and what it makes them if they don't never works. Doesn't matter how good the intentions are or how morally high they think the ground they're standing on is. All the person on the receiving end sees is, well, someone foaming at the mouth at them. Natural inclination will always be to turn the other way.
Sad to see more of that entrenched mentality creeping its way here across the Atlantic. Brainwashing comes to mind.

Utter inanity and totally disconnected from reality, it's like a random cliche generator

The problem with Trump supporters is none of them can debate because nobody can seriously defend fascism
No offence but you sound like you need help
Thanks but that's not an argument and it's also the exact same thing you've been pretending to complain about - sneering and insulting, "foaming at the mouth" stuff

That makes you a total hypocrite and shows your complaints up to be pure bad faith trolling

You can't be taken seriously with posts like that

If I was to behave like a Trump supporter or the "both sides" merchants I'd now claim fake victimhood and pretend I was being silenced
Argument? Not here for an argument. Just reading through the thread and you attack everyone. You're not someone to have a discussion with, only argument. Prophesying Armageddon but the only one calling for absolute war and the total obliteration of a certain class because of their political beliefs.
Trump and supporters should be attacked and relentlessly so

The Republican party needs to be obliterated - it is an utter pox on America and the rest of the world

Trump is openly inciting a race war and says he will refuse to accept the result

You can't argue with this stuff, it is not an enemy that is capable of reasoning

These people and these ideas have to be defeated and run into the ground, the alternative is perpetual misery for peoples

I am not the person with problematic opinions here, there are posters here who support fascism, they and their views are the problem

Fascism is a deadly disease, it's like Covid crossed with cancer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 01, 2020, 04:50:04 PM
If Trump says it's rigged/fixed and he wins will he step down  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 04:50:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?

Hang on that doesn't make sense.

Ridiculing a poster for something they say is not a freedom of speech issue. Anyone on the right is free to say they like what Trump says. That is their freedom in operation. But given Trump openly stirs race hatred it's fairly obvious that anyone expressing support for Trump is going to be confronted on that. As I say that's not a freedom of speech issue.

Yeah some posters are rude. A lot more will not engage meaningfully in the topic. Keep calling them out. Some are outright evasive. Try getting anyone on the right to accept the difference between mass of people on the left or in BLM and a few violent extremists and they go missing. Try to get anyone on the right to acknowledge Trump's lies and many, many go missing.

Posters evading debate is a much bigger issue than rudeness on this forum. And freedom of speech is not an issue at all

Is it any wonder posters dont want to debate?

A debate is where both sides get to put their point of view across.

Its virtually impossible on this thread.

Some of the posts in the last page or two are shocking.

Thats not debating in any mans book
In four years here there has not been one Trump supporter who has managed to put across a reasonable case for fascism

Little wonder, it's impossible

This is why it's impossible to have a debate with them

They exist in a made up fantasy world and this is the only way they can defend what they support, just like supporters of Gemma O'Doherty do, and how supporters of the Nazis did

This is observable fact
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 05:30:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?

Hang on that doesn't make sense.

Ridiculing a poster for something they say is not a freedom of speech issue. Anyone on the right is free to say they like what Trump says. That is their freedom in operation. But given Trump openly stirs race hatred it's fairly obvious that anyone expressing support for Trump is going to be confronted on that. As I say that's not a freedom of speech issue.

Yeah some posters are rude. A lot more will not engage meaningfully in the topic. Keep calling them out. Some are outright evasive. Try getting anyone on the right to accept the difference between mass of people on the left or in BLM and a few violent extremists and they go missing. Try to get anyone on the right to acknowledge Trump's lies and many, many go missing.

Posters evading debate is a much bigger issue than rudeness on this forum. And freedom of speech is not an issue at all

Is it any wonder posters dont want to debate?

A debate is where both sides get to put their point of view across.

Its virtually impossible on this thread.

Some of the posts in the last page or two are shocking.

Thats not debating in any mans book

I will debate with you.

Try this one.

Trump wilfully stirs racial hatred and therefore cannot be considered a good President. Many here seem to support Trump. Assuming they are not blind to the clear evidence of Trump stoking racial tensions those people must fall into 1 of 2 categories:

1 Trump is a good President BECAUSE he stokes racial tensions or
2 Trump is a good President NOTWITHSTANDING the fact that he stokes racial tensions

Any views?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 01, 2020, 05:35:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?

Hang on that doesn't make sense.

Ridiculing a poster for something they say is not a freedom of speech issue. Anyone on the right is free to say they like what Trump says. That is their freedom in operation. But given Trump openly stirs race hatred it's fairly obvious that anyone expressing support for Trump is going to be confronted on that. As I say that's not a freedom of speech issue.

Yeah some posters are rude. A lot more will not engage meaningfully in the topic. Keep calling them out. Some are outright evasive. Try getting anyone on the right to accept the difference between mass of people on the left or in BLM and a few violent extremists and they go missing. Try to get anyone on the right to acknowledge Trump's lies and many, many go missing.

Posters evading debate is a much bigger issue than rudeness on this forum. And freedom of speech is not an issue at all

Is it any wonder posters dont want to debate?

A debate is where both sides get to put their point of view across.

Its virtually impossible on this thread.

Some of the posts in the last page or two are shocking.

Thats not debating in any mans book

Who is stopping anyone getting their point across?

This is not a verbal debate where the opponent can shout across you like Trump the other night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 01, 2020, 10:05:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2020, 05:35:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 01, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Dont take this personally Sid as I dont know you but if what you post is what you believe and it is typically the way of many Democrats behave it is clear to see why some moderate Republicans or undecided voters go with Trump.

I know you may not see this, but the anti Trump supporters seem to be as crazy and fanatical as some of the moderate Trump supporters.

It truly is a fucked up situation
I am fanatically anti-fascist, fanatically anti-the widespread denigration of science and reason and fanatically anti-the targetting of minorities for othering

I see no reason why everybody shouldn't be fanatically anti-those things because the evidence is pretty clear those things are disastrous for humanity

This is a discussion forum and if people are not fanatically anti-those things it is up to them to explain why they are not

It is up to them to explain why they are in favour of ideologies which are demonstrably disastrous for humanity

And the vast majority of people are anti those things as well.

However if anyone has the temerity to question something or even have a different view (no matter how minor) the vitriol that comes there way from you (and many Democrat supporters) is incredible.

Perhaps if the anti Trump brigade tried to get their message across in a different way (rather than in the way outlined above) then this vote in November wouldnt even be a contest

+1 the left should stand by their ideologies of freedom of speech, not freedom of speech on their own terms.

What is it that the left are preventing people from saying?

Anyone with an alternative opinion to most of the left leaning posters on here are ridiculed instead of presented with reasonable debate. One poster in particular is shocking, no manners what so ever. If you dont agree with me, your a degenerate retard, have the brains of a 10 year old. This kind of destructive nonsense has no place on a gaa forum, would you agree?

Hang on that doesn't make sense.

Ridiculing a poster for something they say is not a freedom of speech issue. Anyone on the right is free to say they like what Trump says. That is their freedom in operation. But given Trump openly stirs race hatred it's fairly obvious that anyone expressing support for Trump is going to be confronted on that. As I say that's not a freedom of speech issue.

Yeah some posters are rude. A lot more will not engage meaningfully in the topic. Keep calling them out. Some are outright evasive. Try getting anyone on the right to accept the difference between mass of people on the left or in BLM and a few violent extremists and they go missing. Try to get anyone on the right to acknowledge Trump's lies and many, many go missing.

Posters evading debate is a much bigger issue than rudeness on this forum. And freedom of speech is not an issue at all

Is it any wonder posters dont want to debate?

A debate is where both sides get to put their point of view across.

Its virtually impossible on this thread.

Some of the posts in the last page or two are shocking.

Thats not debating in any mans book

Who is stopping anyone getting their point across?

This is not a verbal debate where the opponent can shout across you like Trump the other night.
Snowflake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on October 01, 2020, 10:06:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

He was voted in by the electoral college. The people overwhelmingly elected Hillary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 01, 2020, 10:14:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

He is indeed President and was elected President by the electoral college. That is the the way Presidents in the US are elected. To say that he was elected by the American people is not accurate.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

This is also not accurate. His short term tax relief for mostly the wealthy and corporate America put the good economy he inherited on a sugar high that has now run into the wall of CoVid that continues to drive the economy into the ditch because of Trump's mismanagement. Just because Trump and his allies keep roaring that they have done a great job on the economy. The greatest economy in the history of the world. Look at the numbers.. they don't bear this out.

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 01, 2020, 10:39:14 PM
Is there any movement in the USA that is trying to scrap the electoral college system?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 01, 2020, 11:52:59 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 01, 2020, 10:06:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

He was voted in by the electoral college. The people overwhelmingly elected Hillary.
That's just nonsense talk unfortunately. The 'popular vote' is irrelevant, which can be seen by comparing the turnout in battleground states compared to blue/red states. The electoral college vote is based purely on the vote of the people in that state. 

If the vote was based purely on a single whole country ballot, then it would be different than the current popular vote, because turnout would be different. Saying someone else would have won if the rules had been different is just juvenile.

The American people voted in Trump, unfortunately,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 02, 2020, 12:01:46 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 01, 2020, 11:52:59 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 01, 2020, 10:06:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

He was voted in by the electoral college. The people overwhelmingly elected Hillary.
That's just nonsense talk unfortunately. The 'popular vote' is irrelevant, which can be seen by comparing the turnout in battleground states compared to blue/red states. The electoral college vote is based purely on the vote of the people in that state. 

If the vote was based purely on a single whole country ballot, then it would be different than the current popular vote, because turnout would be different. Saying someone else would have won if the rules had been different is just juvenile.

The American people voted in Trump, unfortunately,

That is not an accurate statement. He is the President yes... elected by the electoral college. But the majority of the people voted for H. Clinton. Ergo he was not the choice of the people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2020, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

What exactly is "admirable" about his economic and jobs programs?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2020, 12:52:06 AM
Texas embracing Trump's mail ballot fraud bullshit.

Forcing each county to have a single drop-off point for those who would rather drop it off in person than stick it in the post, given all the Trump admin-caused problems with the post office.

The county Houston is in has nearly five million people!

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/Abbott-mail-ballot-drop-off-harris-county-election-15612991.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/Abbott-mail-ballot-drop-off-harris-county-election-15612991.php)

Anything they can do to discourage voting. That's the GOP. They know can't win with a large turnout.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 12:53:18 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 01, 2020, 11:52:59 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 01, 2020, 10:06:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

He was voted in by the electoral college. The people overwhelmingly elected Hillary.
That's just nonsense talk unfortunately. The 'popular vote' is irrelevant, which can be seen by comparing the turnout in battleground states compared to blue/red states. The electoral college vote is based purely on the vote of the people in that state. 

If the vote was based purely on a single whole country ballot, then it would be different than the current popular vote, because turnout would be different. Saying someone else would have won if the rules had been different is just juvenile.

The American people voted in Trump, unfortunately,
It's a minority rule system

Minority rule systems are inherently undemocratic

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 12:56:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 12:52:06 AM
Texas embracing Trump's mail ballot fraud bullshit.

Forcing each county to have a single drop-off point for those who would rather drop it off in person than stick it in the post, given all the Trump admin-caused problems with the post office.

The county Houston is in has nearly five million people!

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/Abbott-mail-ballot-drop-off-harris-county-election-15612991.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/Abbott-mail-ballot-drop-off-harris-county-election-15612991.php)

Anything they can do to discourage voting. That's the GOP. They know can't win with a large turnout.
And poll taxes in Florida

And hackable voting machines all over America
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 04:17:51 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 01, 2020, 10:39:14 PM
Is there any movement in the USA that is trying to scrap the electoral college system?

Yes. The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is a way for the states to scrap it without the need for a constitutional amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

So far it's up to 196 of the required 270 electoral votes with legislation pending in a further 64 votes' worth of states. If we get  Puerto Rico in as a state than that might change the math a little in its favour, depending on how many EVs they end up with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 02, 2020, 05:58:46 AM
Trump has Covid19 holy shit!!

Will be interesting to see how this is managed in run up to the election!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 06:02:47 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 02, 2020, 05:58:46 AM
Trump has Covid19 holy shit!!

Will be interesting to see how this is managed in run up to the election!!

You sure he's got it? I thought it was only Hope Hicks who's got it, and allegedly he's banging her.

Still a big deal that he's going into quarantine though.

At least if they have to debate via Zoom it'll be easier to mute the microphones!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 02, 2020, 06:04:54 AM
He has posted that him and Melania both got it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 02, 2020, 06:22:24 AM
White House statement confirms that both Trump and Melania have tested positive for CoVid 19.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 06:31:57 AM
OMFG!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 06:38:53 AM
Take the bleach!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 06:42:56 AM
That's one way to get out of a second debate.

It is what it is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 07:16:18 AM
Trumps tweet page is a good read, "first time Melania has been positive around Trump"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 02, 2020, 07:28:52 AM
This was inevitable I suppose. Think about the amount of people they would meet everyday. Same as boris.
He's a big age, and wouldn't exactly be a picture of good health, so there's always the danger this puts him out of action for a while. It's exactly 2 weeks to the second debate, hard to see that going ahead as planned now.
Expect to see Mike Pence do alot of heavy lifting in the next 2 weeks.

Some people on twitter really not covering themselves in any glory with their reactions either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 02, 2020, 07:28:52 AM
This was inevitable I suppose. Think about the amount of people they would meet everyday. Same as boris.
He's a big age, and wouldn't exactly be a picture of good health, so there's always the danger this puts him out of action for a while. It's exactly 2 weeks to the second debate, hard to see that going ahead as planned now.
Expect to see Mike Pence do alot of heavy lifting in the next 2 weeks.

Some people on twitter really not covering themselves in any glory with their reactions either.

Trump and the people will not have helped themselves with their attitude towards and practice in regarding masks and social distancing. You never know what their attitude towards hand washing etc given above and some of the madcap ideas bandied about

A positive test is not in itself a reason to defer or cancel the next debate. Operationally there are ways it can be done. Obviously if Trump develops symptoms and is impaired by those then yes it would be wrong for it to go ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2020, 09:01:49 AM
Thoughts and prayers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

I hope that isn't an attempt to come back to be as to whether a good president GIVEN his position on race? You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) on that no doubt?

I would have the gravest doubts about his mastery of economics and whether he deserves any credit in that regard. Hard to prove either way though

Trump is President. Nobody doubts that. He was elected via the current rules. Nobody doubts that. He was elected by a majority of the electorate or even those who voted. Nobody can doubt that. He is the President, properly in position under the rules but does not and did not have majority popular support. Not a complaint. Just a statement of fact
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 09:10:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 02, 2020, 07:28:52 AM
Some people on twitter really not covering themselves in any glory with their reactions either.
Fake victimhood ahoy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

I hope that isn't an attempt to come back to be as to whether a good president GIVEN his position on race? You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) on that no doubt?

I would have the gravest doubts about his mastery of economics and whether he deserves any credit in that regard. Hard to prove either way though

Trump is President. Nobody doubts that. He was elected via the current rules. Nobody doubts that. He was elected by a majority of the electorate or even those who voted. Nobody can doubt that. He is the President, properly in position under the rules but does not and did not have majority popular support. Not a complaint. Just a statement of fact

Not sure what this means?

And again the snide remark about You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) towards anyone who doesnt lambast Trump at every opportunity.

You couldnt make this shit up  ;D  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

I hope that isn't an attempt to come back to be as to whether a good president GIVEN his position on race? You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) on that no doubt?

I would have the gravest doubts about his mastery of economics and whether he deserves any credit in that regard. Hard to prove either way though

Trump is President. Nobody doubts that. He was elected via the current rules. Nobody doubts that. He was elected by a majority of the electorate or even those who voted. Nobody can doubt that. He is the President, properly in position under the rules but does not and did not have majority popular support. Not a complaint. Just a statement of fact

Not sure what this means?

And again the snide remark about You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) towards anyone who doesnt lambast Trump at every opportunity.

You couldnt make this shit up  ;D  ;D
I invited you to debate Trump in the context of his race position. You don't have to lambaste him. Feel free to defend him if that how you feel on him and race?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2020, 11:12:18 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 02, 2020, 07:28:52 AM
This was inevitable I suppose. Think about the amount of people they would meet everyday. Same as boris.
He's a big age, and wouldn't exactly be a picture of good health, so there's always the danger this puts him out of action for a while. It's exactly 2 weeks to the second debate, hard to see that going ahead as planned now.
Expect to see Mike Pence do alot of heavy lifting in the next 2 weeks.

Some people on twitter really not covering themselves in any glory with their reactions either.

Trump is owed zero respect and sympathy on this given his self-serving campaign to downplay and deny the seriousness and extent of the disease and his political interference in the scientific and public health field trying to address it.

He's usually the very first one gloating and throwing around the insults on Twitter anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 02, 2020, 11:13:18 AM
So Covid wasn't killed off by Easter in the U.S.
If only they'd drank bleach.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 12:52:18 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

I hope that isn't an attempt to come back to be as to whether a good president GIVEN his position on race? You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) on that no doubt?

I would have the gravest doubts about his mastery of economics and whether he deserves any credit in that regard. Hard to prove either way though

Trump is President. Nobody doubts that. He was elected via the current rules. Nobody doubts that. He was elected by a majority of the electorate or even those who voted. Nobody can doubt that. He is the President, properly in position under the rules but does not and did not have majority popular support. Not a complaint. Just a statement of fact

Not sure what this means?

And again the snide remark about You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) towards anyone who doesnt lambast Trump at every opportunity.

You couldnt make this shit up  ;D  ;D
I invited you to debate Trump in the context of his race position. You don't have to lambaste him. Feel free to defend him if that how you feel on him and race?

I asked what the bit in bold meant as it made zero sense to me.

Who brought race into it or who mentioned defending him on race?

I think that is what you are asking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Could be a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump.
Gone from supertramp to supertrump in 7 days. Other than that, all he has got left to rescue his campaign is a madness, the unpredictable threat of the disparate indisciplined ultra right armed thugs.
Trump alleged covid positive, remains in the fake news cubby hole unless he gets seriously sick.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Could be a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump.
Gone from supertramp to supertrump in 7 days. Other than that, all he has got left to rescue his campaign is a madness, the unpredictable threat of the disparate indisciplined ultra right armed thugs.
Trump alleged covid positive, remains in the fake news cubby hole unless he gets seriously sick.

He's completely delusional if he or his associates think that him catching and being lucky enough to beat COVID is something he could boast about. It would also be incredibly offensive to the families of the 210K people who have died in the US, never mind those who have survived with chronic health effects.

There's no upside for him with this news. It was only a few nights ago that he was mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask, something he has done a number of times before. He and his idiotic followers have held a number of events in recent weeks where basically no one was wearing masks, despite them all being huddled in together in close proximity. He's been implicated in the past week as the leading source of COVID misinformation in the US. Now its all come back to bite him on his substantial arse and he looks like a fool.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Could be a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump.
Gone from supertramp to supertrump in 7 days. Other than that, all he has got left to rescue his campaign is a madness, the unpredictable threat of the disparate indisciplined ultra right armed thugs.
Trump alleged covid positive, remains in the fake news cubby hole unless he gets seriously sick.

He's completely delusional if he or his associates think that him catching and being lucky enough to beat COVID is something he could boast about. It would also be incredibly offensive to the families of the 210K people who have died in the US, never mind those who have survived with chronic health effects.

There's no upside for him with this news. It was only a few nights ago that he was mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask, something he has done a number of times before. He and his idiotic followers have held a number of events in recent weeks where basically no one was wearing masks, despite them all being huddled in together in close proximity. He's been implicated in the past week as the leading source of COVID misinformation in the US. Now its all come back to bite him on his substantial arse and he looks like a fool.
His diagnosis could be faked.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Could be a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump.
Gone from supertramp to supertrump in 7 days. Other than that, all he has got left to rescue his campaign is a madness, the unpredictable threat of the disparate indisciplined ultra right armed thugs.
Trump alleged covid positive, remains in the fake news cubby hole unless he gets seriously sick.

He's completely delusional if he or his associates think that him catching and being lucky enough to beat COVID is something he could boast about. It would also be incredibly offensive to the families of the 210K people who have died in the US, never mind those who have survived with chronic health effects.

There's no upside for him with this news. It was only a few nights ago that he was mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask, something he has done a number of times before. He and his idiotic followers have held a number of events in recent weeks where basically no one was wearing masks, despite them all being huddled in together in close proximity. He's been implicated in the past week as the leading source of COVID misinformation in the US. Now its all come back to bite him on his substantial arse and he looks like a fool.
His diagnosis could be faked.

To what end though?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 02, 2020, 01:57:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Could be a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump.
Gone from supertramp to supertrump in 7 days. Other than that, all he has got left to rescue his campaign is a madness, the unpredictable threat of the disparate indisciplined ultra right armed thugs.
Trump alleged covid positive, remains in the fake news cubby hole unless he gets seriously sick.
q

Or maybe, maybe he actually has caught it like a huge number of world leaders and people who come in contact with alot of others.
Put the tinfoil hat away!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 02, 2020, 02:28:00 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

I hope that isn't an attempt to come back to be as to whether a good president GIVEN his position on race? You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) on that no doubt?

I would have the gravest doubts about his mastery of economics and whether he deserves any credit in that regard. Hard to prove either way though

Trump is President. Nobody doubts that. He was elected via the current rules. Nobody doubts that. He was elected by a majority of the electorate or even those who voted. Nobody can doubt that. He is the President, properly in position under the rules but does not and did not have majority popular support. Not a complaint. Just a statement of fact

I take it you're missing a 'not' in the bolded part LC?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: smelmoth on October 02, 2020, 02:30:51 PM
Have a look QAnon today.

Frightening stuff. If Trump cannot make a clear statement that those guys are moon howlers then where is his credibility?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2020, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on October 02, 2020, 02:30:51 PM
Have a look QAnon today.

Frightening stuff. If Trump cannot make a clear statement that those guys are moon howlers then where is his credibility?

Apparently people are now posting QAnon nonsense on their LinkedIn profiles.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/qanon-lands-on-linkedin-prompting-networking-site-to-limit-spread-11601643600 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/qanon-lands-on-linkedin-prompting-networking-site-to-limit-spread-11601643600)

What kind of clueless moron do you have to be to do that, even if you do subscribe to their half-baked nonsense?

If I'm looking to hire someone, get hired, or just discussing some professional matter on LinkedIn, if you indicate publicly that you're a QAnon enthusiast, your credibility has just gone up in smoke. No f**king way I'm giving you a second glance on any professional basis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 02, 2020, 02:28:00 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

I hope that isn't an attempt to come back to be as to whether a good president GIVEN his position on race? You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) on that no doubt?

I would have the gravest doubts about his mastery of economics and whether he deserves any credit in that regard. Hard to prove either way though

Trump is President. Nobody doubts that. He was elected via the current rules. Nobody doubts that. He was elected by a majority of the electorate or even those who voted. Nobody can doubt that. He is the President, properly in position under the rules but does not and did not have majority popular support. Not a complaint. Just a statement of fact

I take it you're missing a 'not' in the bolded part LC?

That would be correct
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 04:20:59 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 12:52:18 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

I hope that isn't an attempt to come back to be as to whether a good president GIVEN his position on race? You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) on that no doubt?

I would have the gravest doubts about his mastery of economics and whether he deserves any credit in that regard. Hard to prove either way though

Trump is President. Nobody doubts that. He was elected via the current rules. Nobody doubts that. He was elected by a majority of the electorate or even those who voted. Nobody can doubt that. He is the President, properly in position under the rules but does not and did not have majority popular support. Not a complaint. Just a statement of fact

Not sure what this means?

And again the snide remark about You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) towards anyone who doesnt lambast Trump at every opportunity.

You couldnt make this shit up  ;D  ;D
I invited you to debate Trump in the context of his race position. You don't have to lambaste him. Feel free to defend him if that how you feel on him and race?

I asked what the bit in bold meant as it made zero sense to me.

Who brought race into it or who mentioned defending him on race?

I think that is what you are asking

On the bit in bold I had asked you a question I was just clarifying that your post was an attempt to answer it ie it remains unanswered?

I brought race up (though it's a recurring theme on the thread)?

If you want to know why I brought it up I did so for 2 reasons.
Firstly it's extremely relevant to this thread, especially right now.
Secondly it's a good example of the conduct on this thread. Yes there are examples of poor behaviour but far and away the biggest issue impacting the quality of debate is the failure of people to engage properly in the issue. Just look back at the thread and check for examples of people willing to back Trump but not address the extremely serious allegations against him re race.

So I asked you your view on a very specific issue?

Trust this clarifies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 02, 2020, 07:28:52 AM
This was inevitable I suppose. Think about the amount of people they would meet everyday. Same as boris.
He's a big age, and wouldn't exactly be a picture of good health, so there's always the danger this puts him out of action for a while. It's exactly 2 weeks to the second debate, hard to see that going ahead as planned now.
Expect to see Mike Pence do alot of heavy lifting in the next 2 weeks.

Some people on twitter really not covering themselves in any glory with their reactions either.

Play me the world's smallest violin. I heard reports of people in red states who were celebrating the death of Ruth Bader Ginsberg who are now demanding that liberals show some respect to Trump.

f**k him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 05:45:44 PM
"I don't know folks, do you think Hillary could stand up here for an hour?"

Trump on Hillary Clinton when she had pneumonia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 04:20:59 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 12:52:18 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 02, 2020, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.

I hope that isn't an attempt to come back to be as to whether a good president GIVEN his position on race? You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) on that no doubt?

I would have the gravest doubts about his mastery of economics and whether he deserves any credit in that regard. Hard to prove either way though

Trump is President. Nobody doubts that. He was elected via the current rules. Nobody doubts that. He was elected by a majority of the electorate or even those who voted. Nobody can doubt that. He is the President, properly in position under the rules but does not and did not have majority popular support. Not a complaint. Just a statement of fact

Not sure what this means?

And again the snide remark about You will be back to me later (in the interests of debate and exercising your freedom of speech) towards anyone who doesnt lambast Trump at every opportunity.

You couldnt make this shit up  ;D  ;D
I invited you to debate Trump in the context of his race position. You don't have to lambaste him. Feel free to defend him if that how you feel on him and race?

I asked what the bit in bold meant as it made zero sense to me.

Who brought race into it or who mentioned defending him on race?

I think that is what you are asking

On the bit in bold I had asked you a question I was just clarifying that your post was an attempt to answer it ie it remains unanswered?

I brought race up (though it's a recurring theme on the thread)?

If you want to know why I brought it up I did so for 2 reasons.
Firstly it's extremely relevant to this thread, especially right now.
Secondly it's a good example of the conduct on this thread. Yes there are examples of poor behaviour but far and away the biggest issue impacting the quality of debate is the failure of people to engage properly in the issue. Just look back at the thread and check for examples of people willing to back Trump but not address the extremely serious allegations against him re race.

So I asked you your view on a very specific issue?

Trust this clarifies

I didnt at any stage say he was a good president.

My view is that anyone who is racist is wrong - I abhor racism.

Is that view clear enough?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 02, 2020, 06:59:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 02, 2020, 07:28:52 AM
This was inevitable I suppose. Think about the amount of people they would meet everyday. Same as boris.
He's a big age, and wouldn't exactly be a picture of good health, so there's always the danger this puts him out of action for a while. It's exactly 2 weeks to the second debate, hard to see that going ahead as planned now.
Expect to see Mike Pence do alot of heavy lifting in the next 2 weeks.

Some people on twitter really not covering themselves in any glory with their reactions either.

Play me the world's smallest violin. I heard reports of people in red states who were celebrating the death of Ruth Bader Ginsberg who are now demanding that liberals show some respect to Trump.

f**k him.
eamon hoping for death again Boris and republicans in red states before, such a caring progressive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 02, 2020, 07:23:59 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.


On your point about Trump doing an admirable job with the economy. I think you may have been propagandized into that belief it is simply not true.

In general the Republicans run their election campaigns on the premise that they are much better at running the economy.  This is not true but they keep saying they are and because they feed it to the voters with a tax cut, people accept it as gospel. It is simply wrong. Democrats are historically better at managing the economy (See US Congress Joint Economic Committee 2016 Report). The reality is most of the tax cuts go to a resoundingly supportive wealthy class who amplify the lie because they want another tax cut. The wealthy also control most of the factors of production so they can puff up the investment numbers during a Republican administration and make people feel wealthy because their 401k or their house is more valuable.
The reality is the Democrats do a much better job with the economy. However they are not so good at the propaganda and their propensity for taking money from the financial services industry lessens their credibility considerably.

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/309cc8e1-b971-45c6-ab52-29ffb1da9bf5/jec-fact-sheet---the-economy-under-democratic-vs.-republican-presidents-june-2016.pdf

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 07:27:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Could be a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump.
Gone from supertramp to supertrump in 7 days. Other than that, all he has got left to rescue his campaign is a madness, the unpredictable threat of the disparate indisciplined ultra right armed thugs.
Trump alleged covid positive, remains in the fake news cubby hole unless he gets seriously sick.

He's completely delusional if he or his associates think that him catching and being lucky enough to beat COVID is something he could boast about. It would also be incredibly offensive to the families of the 210K people who have died in the US, never mind those who have survived with chronic health effects.

There's no upside for him with this news. It was only a few nights ago that he was mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask, something he has done a number of times before. He and his idiotic followers have held a number of events in recent weeks where basically no one was wearing masks, despite them all being huddled in together in close proximity. He's been implicated in the past week as the leading source of COVID misinformation in the US. Now its all come back to bite him on his substantial arse and he looks like a fool.
His diagnosis could be faked.

To what end though?
"a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump."

It wouldn't be the first time he faked his medical report and also sought false state of  health report from his medic.
Of course he could have tested positive and get sick.
But if he doesn't get sick, then I suspect an intentional false postive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 07:39:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 02, 2020, 06:59:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 02, 2020, 07:28:52 AM
This was inevitable I suppose. Think about the amount of people they would meet everyday. Same as boris.
He's a big age, and wouldn't exactly be a picture of good health, so there's always the danger this puts him out of action for a while. It's exactly 2 weeks to the second debate, hard to see that going ahead as planned now.
Expect to see Mike Pence do alot of heavy lifting in the next 2 weeks.

Some people on twitter really not covering themselves in any glory with their reactions either.

Play me the world's smallest violin. I heard reports of people in red states who were celebrating the death of Ruth Bader Ginsberg who are now demanding that liberals show some respect to Trump.

f**k him.
eamon hoping for death again Boris and republicans in red states before, such a caring progressive.
Poor GMAC. Always getting...
(https://media.tenor.com/images/45864b0fab6b90a84605ffbb610f6944/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2020, 08:08:58 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 07:27:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Could be a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump.
Gone from supertramp to supertrump in 7 days. Other than that, all he has got left to rescue his campaign is a madness, the unpredictable threat of the disparate indisciplined ultra right armed thugs.
Trump alleged covid positive, remains in the fake news cubby hole unless he gets seriously sick.

He's completely delusional if he or his associates think that him catching and being lucky enough to beat COVID is something he could boast about. It would also be incredibly offensive to the families of the 210K people who have died in the US, never mind those who have survived with chronic health effects.

There's no upside for him with this news. It was only a few nights ago that he was mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask, something he has done a number of times before. He and his idiotic followers have held a number of events in recent weeks where basically no one was wearing masks, despite them all being huddled in together in close proximity. He's been implicated in the past week as the leading source of COVID misinformation in the US. Now its all come back to bite him on his substantial arse and he looks like a fool.
His diagnosis could be faked.

To what end though?
"a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump."

It wouldn't be the first time he faked his medical report and also sought false state of  health report from his medic.
Of course he could have tested positive and get sick.
But if he doesn't get sick, then I suspect an intentional false postive.

Don't see it, on two grounds:

1. Him catching it invalidates his whole downplaying of the importance of masks and his complete utter disregard for social distancing with his campaign events in recent weeks.
2. There's no political advantage to his catching it. If he recovers, so what? He's lucky. More than 200K, talking only of those who died, and not those left with chronic health or economic effects, weren't. He is a vain, crass, self-centred individual who doesn't give two fucks about other people, but even he has a team who come up with campaign tactics and strategy and are bound to be aware that gloating about a recovery is very poor politics in the middle of a pandemic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 08:20:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 08:08:58 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 07:27:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Could be a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump.
Gone from supertramp to supertrump in 7 days. Other than that, all he has got left to rescue his campaign is a madness, the unpredictable threat of the disparate indisciplined ultra right armed thugs.
Trump alleged covid positive, remains in the fake news cubby hole unless he gets seriously sick.

He's completely delusional if he or his associates think that him catching and being lucky enough to beat COVID is something he could boast about. It would also be incredibly offensive to the families of the 210K people who have died in the US, never mind those who have survived with chronic health effects.

There's no upside for him with this news. It was only a few nights ago that he was mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask, something he has done a number of times before. He and his idiotic followers have held a number of events in recent weeks where basically no one was wearing masks, despite them all being huddled in together in close proximity. He's been implicated in the past week as the leading source of COVID misinformation in the US. Now its all come back to bite him on his substantial arse and he looks like a fool.
His diagnosis could be faked.

To what end though?
"a stunt to rescue the doomed campaign to get relected. After a few days he'll  be up bouncing about calling himself supertrump."

It wouldn't be the first time he faked his medical report and also sought false state of  health report from his medic.
Of course he could have tested positive and get sick.
But if he doesn't get sick, then I suspect an intentional false postive.

Don't see it, on two grounds:

1. Him catching it invalidates his whole downplaying of the importance of masks and his complete utter disregard for social distancing with his campaign events in recent weeks.

And one of the reasons was that he claimed covid was overplayed and now he proves that it was overplayed  and not only that but he's supertrump.

Quote2. There's no political advantage to his catching it. If he recovers, so what? He's lucky. More than 200K, talking only of those who died, and not those left with chronic health or economic effects, weren't. He is a vain, crass, self-centred individual who doesn't give two fucks about other people, but even he has a team who come up with campaign tactics and strategy and are bound to be aware that gloating about a recovery is very poor politics in the middle of a pandemic.
I never claimed there was a political advantage to him catching the virus.  Not in the least and not before an election.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
He can't say it was overhyped or overplayed when 210K and counting are dead and hundreds thousands more sickened.

And everything Trump does is calculated to help himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 08:57:51 PM
Perhaps Trump is planning to fake his own death

His good friend Vince McMahon did it, and McMahon's wife is in Trump's cabinet

So there is precedent there in this regime

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2020, 09:22:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 08:57:51 PM
Perhaps Trump is planning to fake his own death

His good friend Vince McMahon did it, and McMahon's wife is in Trump's cabinet

So there is precedent there in this regime

That'd be one way of getting the creditors off his back. I hear Melania can't divorce him because she'd inherit half of his debts, I wonder if there's any truth in that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 02, 2020, 09:33:09 PM
Linda McMahon isn't in the cabinet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 02, 2020, 10:32:41 PM
POTUS going to hospital, marine one just landed on the south lawn. Its serious for them to not use the white house medical centre.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 10:34:42 PM
Meh, we've been through all this before with Johnson

Choreographed shite designed to elicit sympathy, will probably work too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:54:21 PM
The people who believe Trump doesn't actually have Covid are right up there in conspiracy cloud 9 with the Qanon loonies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:12:09 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:54:21 PM
The people who believe Trump doesn't actually have Covid are right up there in conspiracy cloud 9 with the Qanon loonies.
Who are these people?

Your imagination seems to be running wild
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:25:54 PM
President Superspreader

What a f**king irresponsible ****

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjUvjBBWAAAmIDM?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 11:26:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:12:09 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:54:21 PM
The people who believe Trump doesn't actually have Covid are right up there in conspiracy cloud 9 with the Qanon loonies.
Who are these people?

Your imagination seems to be running wild

Go over to Twitter there and type in @votebluetosaveamerica or @blue stocking or @liberalfoo @quincyclayborne

https://twitter.com/liberalfoo/status/1311860525848948736 (https://twitter.com/liberalfoo/status/1311860525848948736)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:38:21 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 11:26:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:12:09 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:54:21 PM
The people who believe Trump doesn't actually have Covid are right up there in conspiracy cloud 9 with the Qanon loonies.
Who are these people?

Your imagination seems to be running wild

Go over to Twitter there and type in @votebluetosaveamerica or @blue stocking or @liberalfoo @quincyclayborne

https://twitter.com/liberalfoo/status/1311860525848948736 (https://twitter.com/liberalfoo/status/1311860525848948736)
You can find people on the internet who believe anything

Believing Trump doesn't have Covid is quite reasonable compared to most of those things

You shouldn't worry yourself over it

It's like you're trying to give yourself stress over nothing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 03, 2020, 12:00:13 AM
Just stumbled across this trileacman, didn't go looking for it or anything, it flashed up on my Twitter timeline so I couldn't avoid it

You can find people who'll believe anything

Most of them aren't running for Congress though, that's the thing

The Republicans seem to have a lot of these types, including Trump himself obviously

Quotehttps://twitter.com/DeAnna4Congress/status/1312073105565716488

Could Trump catching COVID-19 technically be viewed as an assassination attempt on our President by the Chinese?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on October 03, 2020, 12:26:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 03, 2020, 12:00:13 AM
Just stumbled across this trileacman, didn't go looking for it or anything, it flashed up on my Twitter timeline so I couldn't avoid it

You can find people who'll believe anything

Most of them aren't running for Congress though, that's the thing

The Republicans seem to have a lot of these types, including Trump himself obviously

Quotehttps://twitter.com/DeAnna4Congress/status/1312073105565716488

Could Trump catching COVID-19 technically be viewed as an assassination attempt on our President by the Chinese?

You can find people on the internet who believe anything

You shouldn't worry yourself over it

It's like you're trying to give yourself stress over nothing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2020, 12:38:04 AM
If the president lies at the rate of twice per hour and keeps up that pace for a few years, you can't blame people for not knowing whether or not to believe him.

Interesting that he's willing to go to Walter Reed and avail of socialized medicine though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 03, 2020, 12:49:39 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 03, 2020, 12:26:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 03, 2020, 12:00:13 AM
Just stumbled across this trileacman, didn't go looking for it or anything, it flashed up on my Twitter timeline so I couldn't avoid it

You can find people who'll believe anything

Most of them aren't running for Congress though, that's the thing

The Republicans seem to have a lot of these types, including Trump himself obviously

Quotehttps://twitter.com/DeAnna4Congress/status/1312073105565716488

Could Trump catching COVID-19 technically be viewed as an assassination attempt on our President by the Chinese?

You can find people on the internet who believe anything

You shouldn't worry yourself over it

It's like you're trying to give yourself stress over nothing
I suppose the difference between me and you there is that I wasn't going out of my way to find stupid people on the internet to reaffirm my confirmation biases
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 03, 2020, 01:55:08 AM
Eamon and Sid make sure you guys say a prayer for the president tonight thanks .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2020, 02:59:29 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2020, 12:38:04 AM
If the president lies at the rate of twice per hour and keeps up that pace for a few years, you can't blame people for not knowing whether or not to believe him.

Interesting that he's willing to go to Walter Reed and avail of socialized medicine though.

Well he did pay $750 in taxes the other year.

Hope he doesn't run into any of those loser/sucker service men he was mocking, including amputees he didn't want in his parade.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 03, 2020, 03:09:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 03, 2020, 01:55:08 AM
Eamon and Sid make sure you guys say a prayer for the president tonight thanks .

No need.. your President has the whole of the Orthodox Russian Church praying for him😇
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2020, 03:29:46 AM
Kellyanne Conway now, in addition to the two Senators announced earlier. RNC chairwoman too. They're dropping like flies. How many are we going to end up from the Trump superspreader circle?

f**k them and their cynical, arrogant, anti-scientific worldview. No sympathy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 03, 2020, 05:09:54 AM
Bill Stepien, Brad Parscale's replacement as leader of Trump's re-election campaign joins the list. You may remember him from Christie's Bridgegate affair. You couldn't make this stuff up.
Is Covid draining the swamp!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 03, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
I've heard about the 'October surprise', I suppose this isn't what Republican's had in mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2020, 02:35:35 PM
Senator Ron Johnson too...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2020, 07:19:34 PM
Speaking of Chris Christie, guess who just joined the list of infectees?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 04, 2020, 11:44:14 AM
According to Trump, God is taklng time out to cure him by enacting miracles, very special miracles.
"we have things happening that look like they're miracles, coming down from God."

Trump is planning to emerge as God's appointed to the WH throne. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2020, 07:40:14 PM
And to prove he's in super fit condition, he's been photographed working hard. Signing a blank sheet of paper.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 04, 2020, 10:11:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2020, 07:40:14 PM
And to prove he's in super fit condition, he's been photographed working hard. Signing a blank sheet of paper.
Only clever people can see the writing in the page.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 10:20:50 PM
I doubt he had it ffs!

What about his wife? She ok?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 05, 2020, 12:05:20 AM
A f**king drive by for the wingnuts... Jesus wept and the poor secret service lads who had to expose themselves to it for a f**king stunt!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2020, 04:52:48 AM
"Watch this! Would an invalid doped up to the eyeballs be able to do this?"

- sits in back of a car -
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2020, 04:55:02 AM
Nice to see Biden's odds bouncing back to the highest they've been:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/betting_odds/2020_president/

Still a month to go though, and I still don't understand how they collapsed during August. He went from a dead cert to a toss-up in the space of 30 days, and it could still happen. Please God let this nightmare end soon!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 07:57:00 AM
A drive by. Jesus Christ.

The man may be President but surely the f**k someone would say wise up ya silly p***k
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: balladmaker on October 05, 2020, 08:00:55 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 07:57:00 AM
A drive by. Jesus Christ.

The man may be President but surely the f**k someone would say wise up ya silly p***k

After the 'greatest of miracles sent form God' to save him, Donald may consider the line between himself and Jesus Christ to be a slightly blurred one at the minute.   He probably see's his drive-by as being akin to Jesus entering Jerusalem on a donkey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 08:24:09 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 05, 2020, 08:00:55 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 07:57:00 AM
A drive by. Jesus Christ.

The man may be President but surely the f**k someone would say wise up ya silly p***k

After the 'greatest of miracles sent form God' to save him, Donald may consider the line between himself and Jesus Christ to be a slightly blurred one at the minute.   He probably see's his drive-by as being akin to Jesus entering Jerusalem on a donkey.

Or the f**king pope
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 08:58:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2020, 04:52:48 AM
"Watch this! Would an invalid doped up to the eyeballs be able to do this?"

- sits in back of a car -
Bernie Sanders has given a scathing review of the new cult blockbuster Weekend At Donnie's

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 05, 2020, 05:19:40 PM
Press secretary is next up.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/05/trump-press-secretary-kayleigh-mcenany-tests-positive-for-coronavirus.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/05/trump-press-secretary-kayleigh-mcenany-tests-positive-for-coronavirus.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on October 05, 2020, 09:28:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2020, 03:29:46 AM
Kellyanne Conway now, in addition to the two Senators announced earlier. RNC chairwoman too. They're dropping like flies. How many are we going to end up from the Trump superspreader circle?

f**k them and their cynical, arrogant, anti-scientific worldview. No sympathy.

Class act as always.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 05, 2020, 09:56:08 PM
Puts a new twist on the meaning of 'spin doctor'.

"Dr. Sean P. Conley confessed that he had misled the public on Saturday about President Trump's treatment for Covid-19 to reflect the "upbeat attitude" of the White House"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2020, 11:35:31 PM
(https://external-preview.redd.it/wY21vvqYdo69x_0-CaOq7qlZUthPW4Infp6k6cCqpLw.jpg?auto=webp&s=ae815d5d5c65e93ca46ad17256908c04844bfc2c)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 06, 2020, 12:31:24 AM
Quote from: joemamas on October 05, 2020, 09:28:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2020, 03:29:46 AM
Kellyanne Conway now, in addition to the two Senators announced earlier. RNC chairwoman too. They're dropping like flies. How many are we going to end up from the Trump superspreader circle?

f**k them and their cynical, arrogant, anti-scientific worldview. No sympathy.

Class act as always.

I stand by that statement.

Trump is once again tonight downplaying the virus, an insult to the hundreds of thousands sickened and killed by it. I'll save my sympathy for people who actually have some within themselves for others.

If you have something to offer beyond your usual, whiny, empty hit-and-run comments e.g. an actual argument in defense of Trump and the GOP, this thread could use a bit of debate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 06, 2020, 12:33:58 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 05, 2020, 09:56:08 PM
Puts a new twist on the meaning of 'spin doctor'.

"Dr. Sean P. Conley confessed that he had misled the public on Saturday about President Trump's treatment for Covid-19 to reflect the "upbeat attitude" of the White House"

Just another staff member debasing themselves in service of Trump and narrowing their future career options to the right wing media circuit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 06, 2020, 12:34:46 AM
Hope springs eternal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2020, 01:05:04 AM
So many cooties in the WH. They'll have to fumigate the place come January. After this filthy crowd has been dragged kicking and screaming out the door by the Marines after refusing to leave. I'll have my popcorn at the ready.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2020, 07:09:01 PM
shock horror

https://www.fox9.com/news/subject-of-project-veritas-voter-fraud-story-says-he-was-offered-bribe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 06, 2020, 07:32:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2020, 07:09:01 PM
shock horror

https://www.fox9.com/news/subject-of-project-veritas-voter-fraud-story-says-he-was-offered-bribe

James O'Keefe and Project Veritas getting caught fabricating and manipulating videos??

Stunned, I tell you, I'm just stunned! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2020, 07:32:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2020, 07:09:01 PM
shock horror

https://www.fox9.com/news/subject-of-project-veritas-voter-fraud-story-says-he-was-offered-bribe

James O'Keefe and Project Veritas getting caught fabricating and manipulating videos??

Stunned, I tell you, I'm just stunned! ;D

Anybody who has been remotely following things over the last few years knows that Project Veritas is an all out fraud no more credible than Jacob Wohl is

What's more interesting is that Tulsi Gabbard promoted this fake "story"

IMVHO she is dodgy as hell and there is likely a pretty high degree of substance to what Hillary Clinton alleged about her

The Democratic Party will certainly be a lot better off for her being out of it

I expect she will become a regular on the right-wing media circuit and possibly run as a Republican in future, she'd have to move states for that though

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on October 06, 2020, 09:57:42 PM
He really is a piece of shit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2020, 12:02:45 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.

And the Dow has plummeted on the news.

It's almost like he knows he's going to lose, so he's just going to torch the place and leave scorched earth in his wake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 07, 2020, 12:07:23 AM
Is that all you can muster gmac? Low energy! Sad!



Stephen Miller positive now .... only a matter of time before Barr gets it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 01:13:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .
What do you think yourself?

Is he correct in what he says?

Do you support the cutting of unemployment assistance?

You seem to have stopped giving opinions entirely except to moan that anybody would ever say something negative about your beloved Fuhrer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:17:57 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 07, 2020, 12:07:23 AM
Is that all you can muster gmac? Low energy! Sad!



Stephen Miller positive now .... only a matter of time before Barr gets it.

And Trump is still bombing about the White House infectious and maskless.

And its not just weasels like Miller being put in harm's way. Plenty of ordinary men and women working in domestic and facilities roles there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 07, 2020, 01:59:11 AM
This Whitehouse covid cluster is actually a brilliant strategy by Trump. Once he's lost the election and refused to leave office, who's going to be willing to go in and drag him out?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 07, 2020, 02:21:24 AM
It's amazing what you can do with a fire hose.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 07, 2020, 02:38:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 07, 2020, 02:49:36 AM
like clockwork - just missing the other fella  to rear his head again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
He got it from a Trump guy who produced some bullshit "report" dictated to him by the Kremlin

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:35:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:17:57 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 07, 2020, 12:07:23 AM
Is that all you can muster gmac? Low energy! Sad!



Stephen Miller positive now .... only a matter of time before Barr gets it.

And Trump is still bombing about the White House infectious and maskless.

And its not just weasels like Miller being put in harm's way. Plenty of ordinary men and women working in domestic and facilities roles there.

The atmosphere around Trump's campaign is infectious
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 07, 2020, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

The comment wasn't about one aspect of the bill. It was about Trump ending the negotiations with the Democrats, which has the obvious and immediate effect of leaving those in need of relief in the lurch. Either he ended the negotiations or he didn't.

If the Russia stuff was a "hoax", the Trump campaign certainly did everything in their power to make it look like a real thing. Off the top of my head... Manafort, all the contacts, including the meeting at Trump Tower, Trump's pathetic servility to Putin etc., were those made up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 07, 2020, 02:48:30 PM
they were playing the long game to "lock Hillary up"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 02:52:43 PM
This how Republicans suppress the Democratic and particularly the black vote

At the General Election in February I nipped down to vote 20 minutes before closing time and was in and out in three minutes

If I had to queue like this I'd think long and hard about voting at all and I imagine most people would

Queues like this are an affront to democracy, yet the white supremacist who used to post here openly approved of making people wait like this

https://twitter.com/AnnaBrichacek/status/1313812938587865089
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on October 07, 2020, 03:35:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 02:52:43 PM
This how Republicans suppress the Democratic and particularly the black vote

At the General Election in February I nipped down to vote 20 minutes before closing time and was in and out in three minutes

If I had to queue like this I'd think long and hard about voting at all and I imagine most people would

Queues like this are an affront to democracy, yet the white supremacist who used to post here openly approved of making people wait like this

https://twitter.com/AnnaBrichacek/status/1313812938587865089

The UN really need to be sending in monitors as you'd have to question the form of democracy in the US.

Getting to Belarusian levels at the minute.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 07, 2020, 03:48:48 PM
Perhaps the White House has already invited Lukashenko to advise them on how the polling can be monitored.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
He got it from a Trump guy who produced some bullshit "report" dictated to him by the Kremlin

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole

Give Gmac a chance to direct me to the source so I can read it myself. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:54:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 07, 2020, 03:35:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 02:52:43 PM
This how Republicans suppress the Democratic and particularly the black vote

At the General Election in February I nipped down to vote 20 minutes before closing time and was in and out in three minutes

If I had to queue like this I'd think long and hard about voting at all and I imagine most people would

Queues like this are an affront to democracy, yet the white supremacist who used to post here openly approved of making people wait like this

https://twitter.com/AnnaBrichacek/status/1313812938587865089

The UN really need to be sending in monitors as you'd have to question the form of democracy in the US.

Getting to Belarusian levels at the minute.
twitter again a former Elizabeth warren operative , states and local governments run their own
elections , if everyone was on top of each other she would be botching too. She's not in kiltimagh either there's a few more people over here .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
He got it from a Trump guy who produced some bullshit "report" dictated to him by the Kremlin

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole

Give Gmac a chance to direct me to the source so I can read it myself. Thanks.
just google declassified Brennan notes .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 07, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
VERY LOW ENERGY! SAD! VOTE!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 07, 2020, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
He got it from a Trump guy who produced some bullshit "report" dictated to him by the Kremlin

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole

Give Gmac a chance to direct me to the source so I can read it myself. Thanks.
just google declassified Brennan notes .

Is this your source

DNI declassifies Brennan notes, CIA memo on Hillary Clinton 'stirring up' scandal between Trump, Russia | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-brennan-notes-cia-memo-clinton
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 04:58:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
just google declassified Brennan notes .
"DO UR OWN RESERCH!

LEARN TO TINK FOR URSELF!

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 05:14:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 04:58:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
just google declassified Brennan notes .
"DO UR OWN RESERCH!

LEARN TO TINK FOR URSELF!

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!"
not you Sid you've got twitter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 05:30:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 05:14:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 04:58:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
just google declassified Brennan notes .
"DO UR OWN RESERCH!

LEARN TO TINK FOR URSELF!

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!"
not you Sid you've got twitter
You've totally owned me there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 07, 2020, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
He got it from a Trump guy who produced some bullshit "report" dictated to him by the Kremlin

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole

Give Gmac a chance to direct me to the source so I can read it myself. Thanks.
just google declassified Brennan notes .

Is this your source

DNI declassifies Brennan notes, CIA memo on Hillary Clinton 'stirring up' scandal between Trump, Russia | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-brennan-notes-cia-memo-clinton

Gmac, is this your source?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 07:02:22 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1313830983007973376
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 08:46:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 07:02:22 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1313830983007973376
seafoid if you got covid would you blame Leo varadkar or Michael Martin or would you blame how contagious the virus is or maybe your own behavior .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 08:46:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 07:02:22 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1313830983007973376
seafoid if you got covid would you blame Leo varadkar or Michael Martin or would you blame how contagious the virus is or maybe your own behavior .
I'd blame Donald Trump for firing the pandemic response team.

Your attempt to blame the victims for their own deaths is noted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 08:46:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 07:02:22 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1313830983007973376
seafoid if you got covid would you blame Leo varadkar or Michael Martin or would you blame how contagious the virus is or maybe your own behavior .
I'd blame Donald Trump for firing the pandemic response team.

Your attempt to blame the victims for their own deaths is noted.
would you blame cuomo for mandating senior care homes take in covid patients against their wishes .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 07, 2020, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 07:02:22 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1313830983007973376
That's a stunningly effective video.
Trump is on his way to falling below Bob Dole's election numbers despite Trump campaigning against a man barely breathing, probably the most low key democrat ever to stand for president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2020, 10:44:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 08:46:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 07:02:22 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1313830983007973376
seafoid if you got covid would you blame Leo varadkar or Michael Martin or would you blame how contagious the virus is or maybe your own behavior .
I'd blame Donald Trump for firing the pandemic response team.

Your attempt to blame the victims for their own deaths is noted.
would you blame cuomo for mandating senior care homes take in covid patients against their wishes .

Okay, Gmac. You win. Democrats are to blame for Covid. When Republicans are to blame, they're not really to blame, it's all because of Personal Responsibility (TM).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 07, 2020, 11:22:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
He got it from a Trump guy who produced some bullshit "report" dictated to him by the Kremlin

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole

Give Gmac a chance to direct me to the source so I can read it myself. Thanks.
just google declassified Brennan notes .

Is this your source

DNI declassifies Brennan notes, CIA memo on Hillary Clinton 'stirring up' scandal between Trump, Russia | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-brennan-notes-cia-memo-clinton

Gmac, is this your source?

Gmac: would you be polite and answer the question please. It would be great to read the correct source so I can give you a properly referenced comment about Hillary setting up the Russian hoax.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2020, 11:26:17 PM
Yeah, Gmac. Answer the question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 11:22:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
He got it from a Trump guy who produced some bullshit "report" dictated to him by the Kremlin

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole

Give Gmac a chance to direct me to the source so I can read it myself. Thanks.
just google declassified Brennan notes .

Is this your source

DNI declassifies Brennan notes, CIA memo on Hillary Clinton 'stirring up' scandal between Trump, Russia | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-brennan-notes-cia-memo-clinton

Gmac, is this your source?

Gmac: would you be polite and answer the question please. It would be great to read the correct source so I can give you a properly referenced comment about Hillary setting up the Russian hoax.
sit tight a lot more declassified materials on the way soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 08, 2020, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 11:22:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
He got it from a Trump guy who produced some bullshit "report" dictated to him by the Kremlin

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole

Give Gmac a chance to direct me to the source so I can read it myself. Thanks.
just google declassified Brennan notes .

Is this your source

DNI declassifies Brennan notes, CIA memo on Hillary Clinton 'stirring up' scandal between Trump, Russia | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-brennan-notes-cia-memo-clinton

Gmac, is this your source?

Gmac: would you be polite and answer the question please. It would be great to read the correct source so I can give you a properly referenced comment about Hillary setting up the Russian hoax.
sit tight a lot more declassified materials on the way soon.

I am looking forward to seeing the additional declassified material. In the meantime can you please answer the question in hand.. Thank you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 08, 2020, 12:48:01 AM
You all must be new here if you think he is going to answer the question.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 08, 2020, 01:26:00 AM
Trump must be getting really, really desperate.

Hillary and her emails again.

Yes, that will change the subject and people's minds about his appalling, callous, tone-deaf performance on COVID!

Do you have anything to advocate, anything at all Gmac, about why Trump deserves a second term?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 08, 2020, 02:59:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

She said if it gets the proper medical oversight and approval, she'll take it.

You cannot seriously be that much of a looper that you'd take Trump's completely self-interested seal of approval over that of the medical field?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 02:59:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

She said if it gets the proper medical oversight and approval, she'll take it.

You cannot seriously be that much of a looper that you'd take Trump's completely self-interested seal of approval over that of the medical field?
Does she think trump is making the vaccine in a lab ffs . If trump said this it would be national news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 08, 2020, 03:21:14 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 08, 2020, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 11:22:01 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 07, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 07, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 07, 2020, 01:14:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 06, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 01, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Trump is the president - like him or loathe him.
He was voted in by the American people.

His policies on business and doing everything to keep the economy going/creating jobs are admirable (from the limited knowledge I have so bear in mind it is all IMHO).

His policies on nearly everything else including climate change/BLM etc etc are f**king disgraceful and should be roundly condemned.
Keeping the economy going

Quotehttps://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1313561057986633729

Trump has called off COVID relief negotiations. Tens of millions of Americans who have lost their jobs will receive no federal unemployment supplement without that relief. Americans in need will remain in need.
producer on msnbc Larry o donnell last word show surprising he has a  negative tweet about trump .

Unless what he tweeted is untrue, it doesn't really matter what his job is, does it?

So, is it untrue?
i haven't read the whole bill have you ? so I don't cherry pick one issue and Moan about it .
God only knows what Nancy wanted to put in it, but people should be looked after as much as possible and their local politicians should be doing everything to get them back to work and open up businesses ASAP .
Any comment on Hillary setting up the Russian hoax so as to distract from her emails. It was an idea from one of her foreign policy advisers. You couldn't make it up, doubt Kyle griffin will be tweeting about it .

Can you please let me know where you got this stuff on Hillary. I would like to read up on it before I comment.
He got it from a Trump guy who produced some bullshit "report" dictated to him by the Kremlin

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole

Give Gmac a chance to direct me to the source so I can read it myself. Thanks.
just google declassified Brennan notes .

Is this your source

DNI declassifies Brennan notes, CIA memo on Hillary Clinton 'stirring up' scandal between Trump, Russia | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-brennan-notes-cia-memo-clinton

Gmac, is this your source?

Gmac: would you be polite and answer the question please. It would be great to read the correct source so I can give you a properly referenced comment about Hillary setting up the Russian hoax.
sit tight a lot more declassified materials on the way soon.

I am looking forward to seeing the additional declassified material. In the meantime can you please answer the question in hand.. Thank you

Will you just answer the question....... please
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 08, 2020, 03:33:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 02:59:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

She said if it gets the proper medical oversight and approval, she'll take it.

You cannot seriously be that much of a looper that you'd take Trump's completely self-interested seal of approval over that of the medical field?
Does she think trump is making the vaccine in a lab ffs . If trump said this it would be national news

It will be national news. And it should be. The vaccine must be allowed to pass through the normal trials and not rushed for Trump's personal benefit.

There has been a huge amount of political interference in the likes of the CDC by Trump and his lackies. This literal day Trump is still spreading misinformation about the virus and the pandemic, having politicized it from Day 1. He has been putting political pressure on to rush the vaccine, but thankfully the FDA and so on appear to be resisting it, so far. Any sane person should be listening to the likes of Fauci over Trump when it comes to the pandemic and the vaccine. Trump doesn't give two fucks about anything except his own personal fortunes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 08, 2020, 04:36:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 02:59:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

She said if it gets the proper medical oversight and approval, she'll take it.

You cannot seriously be that much of a looper that you'd take Trump's completely self-interested seal of approval over that of the medical field?
Does she think trump is making the vaccine in a lab ffs . If trump said this it would be national news

Gmac: Answer the damned question
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 08, 2020, 01:54:48 PM
Poor widdle Donald doesn't want to do the next debate because it is going to be virtual.

Its just not fair. How can he rant and rave and interrupt when the moderator has a mute button?! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 08, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
I watched the vice presidential debate (all but the last few minutes). Regardless of whether you believe in their political views, it was clear to me that they are both far more impressive candidates than their running mates.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: weareros on October 08, 2020, 02:31:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 01:54:48 PM
Poor widdle Donald doesn't want to do the next debate because it is going to be virtual.

Its just not fair. How can he rant and rave and interrupt when the moderator has a mute button?! ;D

I'm not sure the man is well. The recovered from Covid is likely bogus. The virtual debate is a handy out. Wouldn't wish Covid breathing difficulties on anyone but you'd worry where he will be in a week or two.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 08, 2020, 02:37:16 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 08, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
I watched the vice presidential debate (all but the last few minutes). Regardless of whether you believe in their political views, it was clear to me that they are both far more impressive candidates than their running mates.

Its amazing what can happen when one of the debaters is not a deranged troll derailing the entire discussion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 03:51:32 PM
Personally I think Gmac is doing a great job given we don't have the Donald himself as a forum member
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

Fooling nobody there Gmac.

Harris' position is eminently sensible. Get a vaccine through the appropriate approvals and then get everyone behind it. Completely sensible. It would be good to get some Republicans to come out and say the same - ie when we get a properly approved vaccine the other side of the election the Republican will give it their full throated endorsement irrespective of the election results. Only a coward would duck that one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

Fooling nobody there Gmac.

Harris' position is eminently sensible. Get a vaccine through the appropriate approvals and then get everyone behind it. Completely sensible. It would be good to get some Republicans to come out and say the same - ie when we get a properly approved vaccine the other side of the election the Republican will give it their full throated endorsement irrespective of the election results. Only a coward would duck that one
do you think a pharmaceutical company is going to release a vaccine without it being properly approved by all the right authorities ? How many billions in lawsuits would they open themselves up too if it's not properly vetted by such authorities. It's all trump derangement syndrome,  even a vaccine that could help millions of people is subject to it as are any companies trying to develop it.
The Democrats policy is burn it all down to oust trump and don't worry about any collateral damage .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

Fooling nobody there Gmac.

Harris' position is eminently sensible. Get a vaccine through the appropriate approvals and then get everyone behind it. Completely sensible. It would be good to get some Republicans to come out and say the same - ie when we get a properly approved vaccine the other side of the election the Republican will give it their full throated endorsement irrespective of the election results. Only a coward would duck that one
do you think a pharmaceutical company is going to release a vaccine without it being properly approved by all the right authorities ? How many billions in lawsuits would they open themselves up too if it's not properly vetted by such authorities. It's all trump derangement syndrome,  even a vaccine that could help millions of people is subject to it as are any companies trying to develop it.
The Democrats policy is burn it all down to oust trump and don't worry about any collateral damage .

No I don't think a vaccine will be produced by a credible pharma company without the approvals. And as long as Donald isn't going anywhere else for a fast tracked vaccine this won't be an issue.

No Democrat is talking about getting a vaccine out there without all the appropriate approvals
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 08, 2020, 04:53:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

Fooling nobody there Gmac.

Harris' position is eminently sensible. Get a vaccine through the appropriate approvals and then get everyone behind it. Completely sensible. It would be good to get some Republicans to come out and say the same - ie when we get a properly approved vaccine the other side of the election the Republican will give it their full throated endorsement irrespective of the election results. Only a coward would duck that one
do you think a pharmaceutical company is going to release a vaccine without it being properly approved by all the right authorities ? How many billions in lawsuits would they open themselves up too if it's not properly vetted by such authorities. It's all trump derangement syndrome,  even a vaccine that could help millions of people is subject to it as are any companies trying to develop it.
The Democrats policy is burn it all down to oust trump and don't worry about any collateral damage .

Bullshit. Trump has made it clear he is perfectly willing to have his political appointees overrule the professionals in the agencies or go public himself to pressure them for his own benefit. If the FDA or CDC approves something, that gives cover to the particular company.

Its laughable that you'd cry foul over the Democrats trying to keep the interest of the American people above those of Trump's political fortunes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 04:53:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

Fooling nobody there Gmac.

Harris' position is eminently sensible. Get a vaccine through the appropriate approvals and then get everyone behind it. Completely sensible. It would be good to get some Republicans to come out and say the same - ie when we get a properly approved vaccine the other side of the election the Republican will give it their full throated endorsement irrespective of the election results. Only a coward would duck that one
do you think a pharmaceutical company is going to release a vaccine without it being properly approved by all the right authorities ? How many billions in lawsuits would they open themselves up too if it's not properly vetted by such authorities. It's all trump derangement syndrome,  even a vaccine that could help millions of people is subject to it as are any companies trying to develop it.
The Democrats policy is burn it all down to oust trump and don't worry about any collateral damage .

Bullshit. Trump has made it clear he is perfectly willing to have his political appointees overrule the professionals in the agencies or go public himself to pressure them for his own benefit. If the FDA or CDC approves something, that gives cover to the particular company.

Its laughable that you'd cry foul over the Democrats trying to keep the interest of the American people above those of Trump's political fortunes.
will a vaccine be available by nov 3 ? No so it does nothing for trump politically so why would he push it after the election if there are problems with it , think outside the box
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 08, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 04:53:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

Fooling nobody there Gmac.

Harris' position is eminently sensible. Get a vaccine through the appropriate approvals and then get everyone behind it. Completely sensible. It would be good to get some Republicans to come out and say the same - ie when we get a properly approved vaccine the other side of the election the Republican will give it their full throated endorsement irrespective of the election results. Only a coward would duck that one
do you think a pharmaceutical company is going to release a vaccine without it being properly approved by all the right authorities ? How many billions in lawsuits would they open themselves up too if it's not properly vetted by such authorities. It's all trump derangement syndrome,  even a vaccine that could help millions of people is subject to it as are any companies trying to develop it.
The Democrats policy is burn it all down to oust trump and don't worry about any collateral damage .

Bullshit. Trump has made it clear he is perfectly willing to have his political appointees overrule the professionals in the agencies or go public himself to pressure them for his own benefit. If the FDA or CDC approves something, that gives cover to the particular company.

Its laughable that you'd cry foul over the Democrats trying to keep the interest of the American people above those of Trump's political fortunes.
will a vaccine be available by nov 3 ? No so it does nothing for trump politically so why would he push it after the election if there are problems with it , think outside the box

In the debate last week he said it was only a matter of weeks away. The head of Pfizer had to come out and deny that they were being politically pressured.

Just this week, the White House is holding up guidance the FDA is trying to issue regarding tracking trial participants for two months for health effects. The CDC, also this week, reinstated guidance on the spread of COVID via aerosols that the White House vetoed two weeks ago.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Trump doesn't give two fucks about the vaccine or COVID beyond protecting/benefiting his own arse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 05:39:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 04:53:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

Fooling nobody there Gmac.

Harris' position is eminently sensible. Get a vaccine through the appropriate approvals and then get everyone behind it. Completely sensible. It would be good to get some Republicans to come out and say the same - ie when we get a properly approved vaccine the other side of the election the Republican will give it their full throated endorsement irrespective of the election results. Only a coward would duck that one
do you think a pharmaceutical company is going to release a vaccine without it being properly approved by all the right authorities ? How many billions in lawsuits would they open themselves up too if it's not properly vetted by such authorities. It's all trump derangement syndrome,  even a vaccine that could help millions of people is subject to it as are any companies trying to develop it.
The Democrats policy is burn it all down to oust trump and don't worry about any collateral damage .

Bullshit. Trump has made it clear he is perfectly willing to have his political appointees overrule the professionals in the agencies or go public himself to pressure them for his own benefit. If the FDA or CDC approves something, that gives cover to the particular company.

Its laughable that you'd cry foul over the Democrats trying to keep the interest of the American people above those of Trump's political fortunes.
will a vaccine be available by nov 3 ? No so it does nothing for trump politically so why would he push it after the election if there are problems with it , think outside the box

In the debate last week he said it was only a matter of weeks away. The head of Pfizer had to come out and deny that they were being politically pressured.

Just this week, the White House is holding up guidance the FDA is trying to issue regarding tracking trial participants for two months for health effects. The CDC, also this week, reinstated guidance on the spread of COVID via aerosols that the White House vetoed two weeks ago.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Trump doesn't give two fucks about the vaccine or COVID beyond protecting/benefiting his own arse.
hanoi Jane was 💯 correct when she said covid is gods gift to the left .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
Today in America Deals with Far Right Fascism, the FBI has thwarted a plot by armed right wing terrorists to kidnap Michigan's Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer. Six conservative extremists have been charged.

"Members of a militia group purchased weapons, conducted surveillance, and held training and planning meetings, but were foiled in part because the FBI was able to infiltrate the group with informants, according to a criminal complaint.

The FBI became aware early in 2020, through social media, that a militia group was "discussing the violent overthrow of certain government and law enforcement components," and "agreed to take violent action," according to a sworn affidavit."

Full story:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/governor-gretchen-whitmer-kidnap-plot-militia/5921409002/?fbclid=IwAR3sC7QkPt4lr08g6i6U-AosVV2qdcGktWUR4Xa7mGxdz1IwqzRhMeHAcT0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 08, 2020, 05:48:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 05:39:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2020, 04:53:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

Fooling nobody there Gmac.

Harris' position is eminently sensible. Get a vaccine through the appropriate approvals and then get everyone behind it. Completely sensible. It would be good to get some Republicans to come out and say the same - ie when we get a properly approved vaccine the other side of the election the Republican will give it their full throated endorsement irrespective of the election results. Only a coward would duck that one
do you think a pharmaceutical company is going to release a vaccine without it being properly approved by all the right authorities ? How many billions in lawsuits would they open themselves up too if it's not properly vetted by such authorities. It's all trump derangement syndrome,  even a vaccine that could help millions of people is subject to it as are any companies trying to develop it.
The Democrats policy is burn it all down to oust trump and don't worry about any collateral damage .

Bullshit. Trump has made it clear he is perfectly willing to have his political appointees overrule the professionals in the agencies or go public himself to pressure them for his own benefit. If the FDA or CDC approves something, that gives cover to the particular company.

Its laughable that you'd cry foul over the Democrats trying to keep the interest of the American people above those of Trump's political fortunes.
will a vaccine be available by nov 3 ? No so it does nothing for trump politically so why would he push it after the election if there are problems with it , think outside the box

In the debate last week he said it was only a matter of weeks away. The head of Pfizer had to come out and deny that they were being politically pressured.

Just this week, the White House is holding up guidance the FDA is trying to issue regarding tracking trial participants for two months for health effects. The CDC, also this week, reinstated guidance on the spread of COVID via aerosols that the White House vetoed two weeks ago.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Trump doesn't give two fucks about the vaccine or COVID beyond protecting/benefiting his own arse.
hanoi Jane was 💯 correct when she said covid is gods gift to the left .

If it is, its only because Trump allowed it to be.

This was a great opportunity for him to show leadership and competence and empathy.

Most of the "great" presidents forged their reputations in times of adversity by doing just that. Trump failed miserably and squandered a great opportunity.

Rather than whining about Jane Fonda and the left, you should focus your ire where its due.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
Today in America Deals with Far Right Fascism, the FBI has thwarted a plot by armed right wing terrorists to kidnap Michigan's Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer. Six conservative extremists have been charged.

"Members of a militia group purchased weapons, conducted surveillance, and held training and planning meetings, but were foiled in part because the FBI was able to infiltrate the group with informants, according to a criminal complaint.

The FBI became aware early in 2020, through social media, that a militia group was "discussing the violent overthrow of certain government and law enforcement components," and "agreed to take violent action," according to a sworn affidavit."

Full story:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/governor-gretchen-whitmer-kidnap-plot-militia/5921409002/?fbclid=IwAR3sC7QkPt4lr08g6i6U-AosVV2qdcGktWUR4Xa7mGxdz1IwqzRhMeHAcT0
up to a dozen talked about committing crimes while  in the real world thousands of Democrat voters are rioting and looting almost nightly   around the country .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2020, 06:12:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
Today in America Deals with Far Right Fascism, the FBI has thwarted a plot by armed right wing terrorists to kidnap Michigan's Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer. Six conservative extremists have been charged.

"Members of a militia group purchased weapons, conducted surveillance, and held training and planning meetings, but were foiled in part because the FBI was able to infiltrate the group with informants, according to a criminal complaint.

The FBI became aware early in 2020, through social media, that a militia group was "discussing the violent overthrow of certain government and law enforcement components," and "agreed to take violent action," according to a sworn affidavit."

Full story:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/governor-gretchen-whitmer-kidnap-plot-militia/5921409002/?fbclid=IwAR3sC7QkPt4lr08g6i6U-AosVV2qdcGktWUR4Xa7mGxdz1IwqzRhMeHAcT0
up to a dozen talked about committing crimes while  in the real world thousands of Democrat voters are rioting and looting almost nightly   around the country .

And there were only 17 hijackers on 9/11.  What's your point?

Oh and there were not "thousands of Democrat voters rioting and looting around the country." There were thousands of people protesting peacefully until they were violently attacked by the RUC and B Specials police and armed right wing terrorists like multiple murderer Kyle Wittenhouse, while the crowds were infiltrated by RWNJs smashing windows in an attempt to smear the protestors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

I was very surprised when I saw that. Think she's made a bit of a gaff with that comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2020, 06:34:45 PM
Trump is finished. He's going to lose Florida. The Swing States are all siding with sleepy Joe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2020, 06:12:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
Today in America Deals with Far Right Fascism, the FBI has thwarted a plot by armed right wing terrorists to kidnap Michigan's Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer. Six conservative extremists have been charged.

"Members of a militia group purchased weapons, conducted surveillance, and held training and planning meetings, but were foiled in part because the FBI was able to infiltrate the group with informants, according to a criminal complaint.

The FBI became aware early in 2020, through social media, that a militia group was "discussing the violent overthrow of certain government and law enforcement components," and "agreed to take violent action," according to a sworn affidavit."

Full story:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/governor-gretchen-whitmer-kidnap-plot-militia/5921409002/?fbclid=IwAR3sC7QkPt4lr08g6i6U-AosVV2qdcGktWUR4Xa7mGxdz1IwqzRhMeHAcT0
up to a dozen talked about committing crimes while  in the real world thousands of Democrat voters are rioting and looting almost nightly   around the country .

And there were only 17 hijackers on 9/11.  What's your point?

Oh and there were not "thousands of Democrat voters rioting and looting around the country." There were thousands of people protesting peacefully until they were violently attacked by the RUC and B Specials police and armed right wing terrorists like multiple murderer Kyle Wittenhouse, while the crowds were infiltrated by RWNJs smashing windows in an attempt to smear the protestors.
eamon turn off Rachel she's wrecking your head .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

I was very surprised when I saw that. Think she's made a bit of a gaff with that comment.

If the medical worlds backs a vaccine the Harris backs it. How is that a gaffe?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 08, 2020, 07:07:00 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

I was very surprised when I saw that. Think she's made a bit of a gaff with that comment.

If the medical worlds backs a vaccine the Harris backs it. How is that a gaffe?

Me thinks RedHand is fishing...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2020, 07:58:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2020, 06:12:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 08, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
Today in America Deals with Far Right Fascism, the FBI has thwarted a plot by armed right wing terrorists to kidnap Michigan's Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer. Six conservative extremists have been charged.

"Members of a militia group purchased weapons, conducted surveillance, and held training and planning meetings, but were foiled in part because the FBI was able to infiltrate the group with informants, according to a criminal complaint.

The FBI became aware early in 2020, through social media, that a militia group was "discussing the violent overthrow of certain government and law enforcement components," and "agreed to take violent action," according to a sworn affidavit."

Full story:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/governor-gretchen-whitmer-kidnap-plot-militia/5921409002/?fbclid=IwAR3sC7QkPt4lr08g6i6U-AosVV2qdcGktWUR4Xa7mGxdz1IwqzRhMeHAcT0
up to a dozen talked about committing crimes while  in the real world thousands of Democrat voters are rioting and looting almost nightly   around the country .

And there were only 17 hijackers on 9/11.  What's your point?

Oh and there were not "thousands of Democrat voters rioting and looting around the country." There were thousands of people protesting peacefully until they were violently attacked by the RUC and B Specials police and armed right wing terrorists like multiple murderer Kyle Wittenhouse, while the crowds were infiltrated by RWNJs smashing windows in an attempt to smear the protestors.
eamon turn off Rachel she's wrecking your head .
Turn off OAN. You're getting radicalized. Keep this up and next thing you know you'll be a member of a terror cell and plotting to kidnap or kill a Democratic politician.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 09:30:53 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

I was very surprised when I saw that. Think she's made a bit of a gaff with that comment.

If the medical worlds backs a vaccine the Harris backs it. How is that a gaffe?

You're completely ignoring the second half of her statement, which is where the problem lies. The president tells everyone to take a vaccine and she says no.
Why even push the idea not taking a vaccine? There's enough conspiracy theorist nuts out there who will latch onto it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 08, 2020, 09:45:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 09:30:53 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

I was very surprised when I saw that. Think she's made a bit of a gaff with that comment.

If the medical worlds backs a vaccine the Harris backs it. How is that a gaffe?

You're completely ignoring the second half of her statement, which is where the problem lies. The president tells everyone to take a vaccine and she says no.
Why even push the idea not taking a vaccine? There's enough conspiracy theorist nuts out there who will latch onto it.
You'd have to be a moron or just completely disingenuous not to understand what Harris said. Presumably you're the latter and just pretending to be the former.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on October 08, 2020, 11:39:55 PM
Only saw some parts of the vice-president debates but from the articles read it looks like Pense was lying through his teeth avoiding questions while Harris did a good job of covering all topics that he threw her way. A fair description?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 11:44:46 PM
Quote from: Roesider on October 08, 2020, 11:39:55 PM
Only saw some parts of the vice-president debates but from the articles read it looks like Pense was lying through his teeth avoiding questions while Harris did a good job of covering all topics that he threw her way. A fair description?
where did you read that ? Pence won easily and Harris was the one lying even making up quotes for Abe Lincoln
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 12:04:08 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/121103994_10224134295930310_2334572895150281146_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=ENC-W-5sfIgAX96Vk9W&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=9260540740f6f5f6a93ba88f0697db68&oe=5FA4714F)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 12:05:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 11:44:46 PM
Quote from: Roesider on October 08, 2020, 11:39:55 PM
Only saw some parts of the vice-president debates but from the articles read it looks like Pense was lying through his teeth avoiding questions while Harris did a good job of covering all topics that he threw her way. A fair description?
where did you read that ? Pence won easily and Harris was the one lying even making up quotes for Abe Lincoln

Ha! How do you explain this then?

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/120998156_10158724978087457_9101165602329119407_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=p-zynnEFQkAAX9oO90M&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=6ccf094aa904981c59c29d924041fae9&oe=5FA6A133)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 09, 2020, 12:06:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 11:44:46 PM
Quote from: Roesider on October 08, 2020, 11:39:55 PM
Only saw some parts of the vice-president debates but from the articles read it looks like Pense was lying through his teeth avoiding questions while Harris did a good job of covering all topics that he threw her way. A fair description?
where did you read that ? Pence won easily and Harris was the one lying even making up quotes for Abe Lincoln

The articles you read gave a fair and accurate depiction of the Debate I watched. Gmac gets his views directly from the Trump Train where delusional self righteousness is de rigueur
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 12:12:47 AM
Gmac thinks the object of the game was to duck the question, answer questions that weren't asked, and talk over the moderator for five minutes after your time is up. Of course he thinks Pence won.

I think Pence had a bug feeding him the answers into his ear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 12:22:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 12:12:47 AM
Gmac thinks the object of the game was to duck the question, answer questions that weren't asked, and talk over the moderator for five minutes after your time is up. Of course he thinks Pence won.

I think Pence had a bug feeding him the answers into his ear.
pence spoke for 35 minutes Harris spoke for 38 minutes ,for anyone who thinks  pence spoke over her and in her time .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 09, 2020, 12:33:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 12:22:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 12:12:47 AM
Gmac thinks the object of the game was to duck the question, answer questions that weren't asked, and talk over the moderator for five minutes after your time is up. Of course he thinks Pence won.

I think Pence had a bug feeding him the answers into his ear.
pence spoke for 35 minutes Harris spoke for 38 minutes ,for anyone who thinks  pence spoke over her and in her time .

1. Where did you get those numbers? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2020, 02:16:25 AM
cloud cuckoo land
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 09, 2020, 02:54:37 AM
Gmac .. your line that Harris spoke for more time than Pence is proof that he did not speak over her is ridiculous. It is also inaccurate.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/10/debate-mike-pence-kept-talking-video.html




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2020, 03:17:53 AM
He sounded great on Hannity tonight

https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1314384611800223744
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 09, 2020, 07:27:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 12:22:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 12:12:47 AM
Gmac thinks the object of the game was to duck the question, answer questions that weren't asked, and talk over the moderator for five minutes after your time is up. Of course he thinks Pence won.

I think Pence had a bug feeding him the answers into his ear.
pence spoke for 35 minutes Harris spoke for 38 minutes ,for anyone who thinks  pence spoke over her and in her time .

If was the other way round. Pence 38 and Harris 35. I dont think he spoke over her though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 09, 2020, 08:00:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 11:44:46 PM
Quote from: Roesider on October 08, 2020, 11:39:55 PM
Only saw some parts of the vice-president debates but from the articles read it looks like Pense was lying through his teeth avoiding questions while Harris did a good job of covering all topics that he threw her way. A fair description?
where did you read that ? Pence won easily and Harris was the one lying even making up quotes for Abe Lincoln
Both of you are incorrect. 

As I said earlier, I though both performed well, both performed better than their running mates last week.

Pence was the consummate politician. Answered only what he wanted and did it in a very natural way that you might not even notice. Albeit, he avoided the actual question that often that anyone with even a moderate attention span would have noticed. It was interesting that neither Harris nor the moderator pulled him up on it, whereas the one question Harris wouldn't answer, Pence jumped on it and jumped on it again. 

The interruptions were in the normal category for a debate like this, nothing in the same league as the Donald. Pence interrupted more often for sure, but Harris never let him away with it and did well to shut him down each time. Pence did go over his allotted time more often and he spoke over the moderator a few times, which Harris rarely if ever did. That was definitely the worst part for Pence when he was just ignoring the moderator and continuing on - your point definitely gets a bit lost when that's happening.

Pence threw in a few compliments to Harris. Often 'very nice' before throwing in the dig. I think that's good debating strategy. In general, with the obvious exception of their differing political views, he reminds me very much of Biden.

Harris was the typical tough prosecutor. I think she was more nervous than Pence, but that dissipated quickly enough. I find her extremely impressive. Her interactions with the moderator were better than Pence's. I thought she was debating almost entirely against Trump rather than Pence. Clearly Trump is the main name on the ticket, but I would have mixed it up a little.  For example in relation to the military, I thought she could have acknowledged Pence's views and record as again being very similar to Biden's and that then could have allowed her to contrast even more sharply Trump's views/comments. But overall she'd have to be happy with her performance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 09:30:53 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 08, 2020, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 08, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 08, 2020, 02:21:36 AM
Kamala Harris

Quote
"If Dr. Fauci and doctors say to take the vaccine, I'll be the first in line.

If president Trump says to take a vaccine, I will not do it."

;D
will she be responsible for millions of her whacked out supporters dying for not taking a vaccine ?

I was very surprised when I saw that. Think she's made a bit of a gaff with that comment.

If the medical worlds backs a vaccine the Harris backs it. How is that a gaffe?

You're completely ignoring the second half of her statement, which is where the problem lies. The president tells everyone to take a vaccine and she says no.
Why even push the idea not taking a vaccine? There's enough conspiracy theorist nuts out there who will latch onto it.

What I have completely not done is arrive at any conclusion that Harris would reject a properly approved vaccine because Trump happens to have also endorsed it.

Very clearly Harris is backing the proper process.

We should however just check in with the Republicans to ensure that they will only back a vaccine after it is appropriately approved and once a vaccine is properly approved they will automatically endorse it. While they are at they should clarify that their position on any vaccine is not linked to its timing relative to the election or indeed linked to the outcome of the election. The Democrats seem to a sound and stable position on this. Hopefully the Republicans catch up. Serious questions if they don't
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:23:30 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 09, 2020, 01:05:15 PM
Meanwhile in Carrick...

(https://i.redd.it/v0l33qxws1s51.jpg)

Words f**king fail me!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 09, 2020, 01:58:31 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 09, 2020, 01:05:15 PM
Meanwhile in Carrick...

(https://i.redd.it/v0l33qxws1s51.jpg)

Not surprising.

There's plenty of idealogical ties between some parts of unionism and the base of Trump's support, particularly on the religious side.

Don't forget Paisley was a friend of the odious Bob Jones, and was given an honourary doctorate from Bob Jones University (he never earned a real one, despite his use of the title).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 09, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

So don't read it.

There's quite a few of us do live in the states, and like it or not, what happens in the US has repercussions well beyond its shores.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 02:14:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

So don't read it.

There's quite a few of us do live in the states, and like it or not, what happens in the US has repercussions well beyond its shores.

Don't read it could be applied for a lot of comments on other threads on the boards, but hey we have a look and a say anyway.. I've addressed the many ex pats that are on here but the toxic nature (as there is with a bit of your response ;)) of the thread is what i was hinting at, so if your are not going to give me a reason that's fine.

Also not everyone's lives depend on whos in the Whitehouse, really
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(

Online, Trump supporters are as toxic as it gets however I have to agree - on here I still be shocked how vociferous the anti Trump supporters are.
Leads to a shitshow in the country thats for sure
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(
all name calling and personal abuse comes from the more liberal side of the argument especially on this thread.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 09, 2020, 05:55:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(
all name calling and personal abuse comes from the more liberal side of the argument especially on this thread.

Bear in mind I was called a nazi and that 88 in my username referred to "heil hitler". 

Theres no point even engaging with people like that. The thread is unbelievably toxic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 09, 2020, 06:02:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 02:14:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

So don't read it.

There's quite a few of us do live in the states, and like it or not, what happens in the US has repercussions well beyond its shores.

Don't read it could be applied for a lot of comments on other threads on the boards, but hey we have a look and a say anyway.. I've addressed the many ex pats that are on here but the toxic nature (as there is with a bit of your response ;)) of the thread is what i was hinting at, so if your are not going to give me a reason that's fine.

Also not everyone's lives depend on whos in the Whitehouse, really

The US is the most dominant country in the western world, both geopolitically and culturally.

I didn't say everyone's lives "depend" on who is US president. Certainly influenced and affected by it though. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Right now, I don't see how anyone could deny that the presence of Trump in the White House has given encouragement to the far right in many countries.

As for this thread being "toxic", I'd have to see your definition for what that means.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: APM on October 09, 2020, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(
all name calling and personal abuse comes from the more liberal side of the argument especially on this thread.

This thread is like listening to Nolan or Talkback.  It's about themmuns.  The language used by adversaries in the US debate between liberals and conservatives is pure tribalism and no different to the local discussion between themmuns and usuns.  Some of the stuff on here is embarrassing. 

It's actually weird to see Irish people investing in this tribalism when it could be argued that it isn't their fight.  But I suppose it is if you are living there.  But this talk of Libtards and Rethuglicans, which I have seen on this thread is depressing and its been going on for years. It's like monkey see, monkey do! It's now permeating Irish and UK politics. 

At the extremes, one side is as bad as the other! Because at the extremes, people are burned by their own side for taking a more centrist position, even if that position would have been seen as heavily left or right in a historical context. 

We are seeing this tribalism or balkanisation of global politics and this thread is only a microcosm of it.  People are slipping (or are being manipulated) into taking increasingly extreme views on a whole range of issues, either to the left or right, whether it be on social, economic, gender or health issues. They are increasingly living in echo bubbles where they just want their own views validated and they are increasingly threatened by counter-opinions and the language of their response, is increasingly ugly and less reasoned.  People's perception of where the centre is, has moved significantly, because of these echo bubbles and this, among other factors, leads to disturbing threads like this.

Some of the principal contributors on this thread could do with taking time away from the computer and TV.  If for six months, the same time went into reading reading decent literature, philosophy and political science, they would come back with a whole new world view.  Perhaps a whole lot more nuanced and a lot less black and white. 

Instead, they are reading the wrong stuff right now and many won't have the wit to realise that I'm talking about them and not themmuns.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 06:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 06:02:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 02:14:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

So don't read it.

There's quite a few of us do live in the states, and like it or not, what happens in the US has repercussions well beyond its shores.

Don't read it could be applied for a lot of comments on other threads on the boards, but hey we have a look and a say anyway.. I've addressed the many ex pats that are on here but the toxic nature (as there is with a bit of your response ;)) of the thread is what i was hinting at, so if your are not going to give me a reason that's fine.

Also not everyone's lives depend on whos in the Whitehouse, really


As for this thread being "toxic", I'd have to see your definition for what that means.


toxic behaviour  represents an inability to feel genuine understanding and compassion for the other person.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on October 09, 2020, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 06:02:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 02:14:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

So don't read it.

There's quite a few of us do live in the states, and like it or not, what happens in the US has repercussions well beyond its shores.

Don't read it could be applied for a lot of comments on other threads on the boards, but hey we have a look and a say anyway.. I've addressed the many ex pats that are on here but the toxic nature (as there is with a bit of your response ;)) of the thread is what i was hinting at, so if your are not going to give me a reason that's fine.

Also not everyone's lives depend on whos in the Whitehouse, really

The US is the most dominant country in the western world, both geopolitically and culturally.

I didn't say everyone's lives "depend" on who is US president. Certainly influenced and affected by it though. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Right now, I don't see how anyone could deny that the presence of Trump in the White House has given encouragement to the far right in many countries.

As for this thread being "toxic", I'd have to see your definition for what that means.
Lol.

I agree with MR2, he is spot on. I couldn't give a bollocks whether Trump is president again or not, because it will have little or no impact on me or anyone else in ireland.
Toxic to the extent that irish people will literally insult each other on this thread on a daily basis because of their opinions on the politics of a country on the other side of the world, that has fk all to do with our own. Who cares. Its hilarious and a bit embarrassing really.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 06:33:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?

;D ;D ;D

Thats right Ross - proving many of the last posts correct.

You dont even have to support Trump in this thread to get insulted.

If you support no one/remain neutral or even try to see someones else point of view then anti Trump supporters see you as a viable target
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?
the ringleader of that bunch of idiots is not a trump supporter and is on tape insulting Trump so maybe trump was going to be their next victim or maybe they don't like politicians, dont believe the first version of things you hear from the USA at the moment a lot of subversion going on .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 07:23:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?
the ringleader of that bunch of idiots is not a trump supporter and is on tape insulting Trump so maybe trump was going to be their next victim or maybe they don't like politicians, dont believe the first version of things you hear from the USA at the moment a lot of subversion going on .

I challenge you to condemn the terrorists who plotted to kidnap and kill a democratically elected governor. Go to it, Gmac.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on October 09, 2020, 07:40:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 07:23:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?
the ringleader of that bunch of idiots is not a trump supporter and is on tape insulting Trump so maybe trump was going to be their next victim or maybe they don't like politicians, dont believe the first version of things you hear from the USA at the moment a lot of subversion going on .

I challenge you to condemn the terrorists who plotted to kidnap and kill a democratically elected governor. Go to it, Gmac.

An anonymous poster asking another anonymous poster on an Irish gaa site to condemn a terrorist attack in the US state of Michigan, Jaysus wept. Some lads really have lost the run of themselves.
Yout spot on MR2.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2020, 07:42:45 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 09, 2020, 07:40:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 07:23:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?
the ringleader of that bunch of idiots is not a trump supporter and is on tape insulting Trump so maybe trump was going to be their next victim or maybe they don't like politicians, dont believe the first version of things you hear from the USA at the moment a lot of subversion going on .

I challenge you to condemn the terrorists who plotted to kidnap and kill a democratically elected governor. Go to it, Gmac.

An anonymous poster asking another anonymous poster on an Irish gaa site to condemn a terrorist attack in the US state of Michigan, Jaysus wept. Some lads really have lost the run of themselves.
Yout spot on MR2.

Both lads live in California
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on October 09, 2020, 07:57:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2020, 07:42:45 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 09, 2020, 07:40:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 07:23:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?
the ringleader of that bunch of idiots is not a trump supporter and is on tape insulting Trump so maybe trump was going to be their next victim or maybe they don't like politicians, dont believe the first version of things you hear from the USA at the moment a lot of subversion going on .

I challenge you to condemn the terrorists who plotted to kidnap and kill a democratically elected governor. Go to it, Gmac.

An anonymous poster asking another anonymous poster on an Irish gaa site to condemn a terrorist attack in the US state of Michigan, Jaysus wept. Some lads really have lost the run of themselves.
Yout spot on MR2.

Both lads live in California

Ok thanks, that changes things.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2020, 08:29:29 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 09, 2020, 07:57:01 PMOk thanks, that changes things.

It doesn't really.

And if the bickering between the two of them annoys ye - there's an ignore function which works perfectly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on October 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland? ;)

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 09, 2020, 09:11:23 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on October 09, 2020, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 06:02:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 02:14:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

So don't read it.

There's quite a few of us do live in the states, and like it or not, what happens in the US has repercussions well beyond its shores.

Don't read it could be applied for a lot of comments on other threads on the boards, but hey we have a look and a say anyway.. I've addressed the many ex pats that are on here but the toxic nature (as there is with a bit of your response ;)) of the thread is what i was hinting at, so if your are not going to give me a reason that's fine.

Also not everyone's lives depend on whos in the Whitehouse, really

The US is the most dominant country in the western world, both geopolitically and culturally.

I didn't say everyone's lives "depend" on who is US president. Certainly influenced and affected by it though. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Right now, I don't see how anyone could deny that the presence of Trump in the White House has given encouragement to the far right in many countries.

As for this thread being "toxic", I'd have to see your definition for what that means.
Lol.

I agree with MR2, he is spot on. I couldn't give a bollocks whether Trump is president again or not, because it will have little or no impact on me or anyone else in ireland.
Toxic to the extent that irish people will literally insult each other on this thread on a daily basis because of their opinions on the politics of a country on the other side of the world, that has fk all to do with our own. Who cares. Its hilarious and a bit embarrassing really.

Why would you find it embarrassing?

Again, no one is forcing you to read it.

I don't bother with quite a few threads as they don't interest me. I absolutely don't drop in to give my opinion on whether or not the topic is embarrassing or worthy of discussion. If the participants are interested, good for them.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 09, 2020, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 06:20:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 06:02:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 02:14:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 09, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

So don't read it.

There's quite a few of us do live in the states, and like it or not, what happens in the US has repercussions well beyond its shores.

Don't read it could be applied for a lot of comments on other threads on the boards, but hey we have a look and a say anyway.. I've addressed the many ex pats that are on here but the toxic nature (as there is with a bit of your response ;)) of the thread is what i was hinting at, so if your are not going to give me a reason that's fine.

Also not everyone's lives depend on whos in the Whitehouse, really


As for this thread being "toxic", I'd have to see your definition for what that means.


toxic behaviour  represents an inability to feel genuine understanding and compassion for the other person.

I've asked the resident right wingers many times to explain why a right wing president or Supreme Court is a good thing. Never get an answer beyond "dirty Democrats" or "biased media".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 09:28:24 PM
So J70 you find this thread is not toxic?

Has it got good thought out debates with reasoned out posts?

Even in the soccer threads guys are laughing at the wind ups, some of stuff on here is venomous, are yous lot like that when chatting to guys in work about these issues?

Anyone can have an opinion on here, one would be America (based on this thread) is a horrible place with a more divided nation than Ireland

But hey, this isn't a slight on ex pats moving away and having a better life for themselves, I've close relatives who live there and do well. I've a cousin who's contemplating coming home for good due to the current state of play
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on October 09, 2020, 09:33:00 PM
Id agree with my learned Belfast comrade. I tip in just to see if ive missed any big US news occasionally but as MR2 says its an angry place. Not having a go at you specifically J70 as you seem a reasonabale sort(out of this thread lol)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 09, 2020, 09:33:00 PM
Id agree with my learned Belfast comrade. I tip in just to see if ive missed any big US news occasionally but as MR2 says its an angry place. Not having a go at you specifically J70 as you seem a reasonabale sort(out of this thread lol)

I'd agree with that J70 on all threads is generally spot on even Liverpool's thread! But would you speak to someone like that in real life? I don't know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 09, 2020, 10:08:13 PM
Quote from: APM on October 09, 2020, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(
all name calling and personal abuse comes from the more liberal side of the argument especially on this thread.

This thread is like listening to Nolan or Talkback.  It's about themmuns.  The language used by adversaries in the US debate between liberals and conservatives is pure tribalism and no different to the local discussion between themmuns and usuns.  Some of the stuff on here is embarrassing. 

It's actually weird to see Irish people investing in this tribalism when it could be argued that it isn't their fight.  But I suppose it is if you are living there.  But this talk of Libtards and Rethuglicans, which I have seen on this thread is depressing and its been going on for years. It's like monkey see, monkey do! It's now permeating Irish and UK politics. 

At the extremes, one side is as bad as the other! Because at the extremes, people are burned by their own side for taking a more centrist position, even if that position would have been seen as heavily left or right in a historical context. 

We are seeing this tribalism or balkanisation of global politics and this thread is only a microcosm of it.  People are slipping (or are being manipulated) into taking increasingly extreme views on a whole range of issues, either to the left or right, whether it be on social, economic, gender or health issues. They are increasingly living in echo bubbles where they just want their own views validated and they are increasingly threatened by counter-opinions and the language of their response, is increasingly ugly and less reasoned.  People's perception of where the centre is, has moved significantly, because of these echo bubbles and this, among other factors, leads to disturbing threads like this.

Some of the principal contributors on this thread could do with taking time away from the computer and TV.  If for six months, the same time went into reading reading decent literature, philosophy and political science, they would come back with a whole new world view.  Perhaps a whole lot more nuanced and a lot less black and white. 

Instead, they are reading the wrong stuff right now and many won't have the wit to realise that I'm talking about them and not themmuns.

The sects have formed an the US is definitely a sectarian country now. Right down to the 'oh my mate Rob, he's a Republican (but he's alright)'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 09, 2020, 10:23:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 09, 2020, 07:57:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2020, 07:42:45 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 09, 2020, 07:40:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 07:23:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?
the ringleader of that bunch of idiots is not a trump supporter and is on tape insulting Trump so maybe trump was going to be their next victim or maybe they don't like politicians, dont believe the first version of things you hear from the USA at the moment a lot of subversion going on .

I challenge you to condemn the terrorists who plotted to kidnap and kill a democratically elected governor. Go to it, Gmac.

An anonymous poster asking another anonymous poster on an Irish gaa site to condemn a terrorist attack in the US state of Michigan, Jaysus wept. Some lads really have lost the run of themselves.
Yout spot on MR2.

Both lads live in California

Ok thanks, that changes things.
Yes possibly the first  and hopefully last time I'd ever share an opinion with MR2, take the fight to California. This thread is no more toxic than other threads but Irish people stupid enough to select  the USA to live in, adhering to 2 right wing USA political party ideology using the GAABoard to spar  (with handbags)  irrevocable deeply held USA conservative political beliefs  is the height of absurdity.  Though that it is claimed to be a right v left, does add some comic value.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 10:49:09 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 09, 2020, 10:23:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 09, 2020, 07:57:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 09, 2020, 07:42:45 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 09, 2020, 07:40:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 09, 2020, 07:23:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?
the ringleader of that bunch of idiots is not a trump supporter and is on tape insulting Trump so maybe trump was going to be their next victim or maybe they don't like politicians, dont believe the first version of things you hear from the USA at the moment a lot of subversion going on .

I challenge you to condemn the terrorists who plotted to kidnap and kill a democratically elected governor. Go to it, Gmac.

An anonymous poster asking another anonymous poster on an Irish gaa site to condemn a terrorist attack in the US state of Michigan, Jaysus wept. Some lads really have lost the run of themselves.
Yout spot on MR2.

Both lads live in California

Ok thanks, that changes things.
Yes possibly the first  and hopefully last time I'd ever share an opinion with MR2, take the fight to California. This thread is no more toxic than other threads but Irish people stupid enough to select  the USA to live in, adhering to 2 right wing USA political party ideology using the GAABoard to spar  (with handbags)  irrevocable deeply held USA conservative political beliefs  is the height of absurdity.  Though that it is claimed to be a right v left, does add some comic value.
where do you live ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 10, 2020, 12:04:44 AM
The 2 US Parties are very right wing and raving loony right wing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 10, 2020, 12:36:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 10, 2020, 12:04:44 AM
The 2 US Parties are very right wing and raving loony right wing.
why dont you start  preaching at your home first before casting  a cold eye west , wasn't Roscommon/Leitrim the only constituency in Ireland that rejected gay marriage ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 10, 2020, 12:54:35 AM
How 50.5% of  people voted in the former Roscommon/Sth Laythrum Constituency diesnt negate the facts about Yanks. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 06:43:16 AM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(

I contend that the root cause of the collapse in debate is when a poster makes or repeats a claim, provides no evidence and refuses to engage in any examination of whether the claim is true. On this forum there is a near monopoly on that on the right.

Not surprising. In US and UK it's the default setting of prominent right wing politicians and now their followers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 06:46:48 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(

Online, Trump supporters are as toxic as it gets however I have to agree - on here I still be shocked how vociferous the anti Trump supporters are.
Leads to a shitshow in the country thats for sure

I don't think anybody should be surprised that opposition to Trump is vociferous. It needs to be vociferous. It should be possible to be vociferous and still fact based. By all means call people out for being fact dodgers but not for being vociferous
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 06:49:52 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 09, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(
all name calling and personal abuse comes from the more liberal side of the argument especially on this thread.

Perhaps not all but I take your general point.

The question dodging definitely comes from the right though. Perhaps you personally could put your shoulder to the wheel in addressing that. It will have a positive impact on the quality of debate which I know concerns you deeply
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 10:28:27 AM
Why can't we have a fair, reasonable discussion on the merits or demerits of the Glennane Gang?

Posters from both sides should be able to put their views across in a respectful manner, while also being simultaneously "unbiased", whatever that means

The intellectual case for co-operation between the British State and Loyalist freedom fighters has not been voiced on this forum and that's disappointing

All the posters seem to be biased in favour of not murdering Catholic civilians and therefore we can't take what they say seriously

And the recent "Unquiet Graves" documentary was hopelessly biased

On the question of whether the murder of Catholic civilians by the British state was necessary or unnecessary, as always the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - as in, it probably wasn't totally necessary, but it was a bit necessary

I also don't get why anybody not personally affected would care





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 10:28:46 AM
That was a satirical post
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 10:37:43 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 06:46:48 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(

Online, Trump supporters are as toxic as it gets however I have to agree - on here I still be shocked how vociferous the anti Trump supporters are.
Leads to a shitshow in the country thats for sure

I don't think anybody should be surprised that opposition to Trump is vociferous. It needs to be vociferous. It should be possible to be vociferous and still fact based. By all means call people out for being fact dodgers but not for being vociferous
One of the disappointing aspects of the the ongoing fascist demonstrations in Dublin is that it seems people can't respectfully disagree with each other and still be friends

It should be possible for fascists to respectfully bring along nooses as props and call for ethnic cleansing and mass deportations, call people paedophiles based on nothing, and use Nazi rhetoric etc., and for them and their targets to still be friends at the end of the day

Why can't fascists and their victims be friends?

Personally I blame the victims

Something like that

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 10:45:11 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 06:33:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
Are the resident  right wing Trumpites on this forum upset over the FBI foiling the terrorist plot of their fellow Trumpites in Michigan?

;D ;D ;D

Thats right Ross - proving many of the last posts correct.

You dont even have to support Trump in this thread to get insulted.

If you support no one/remain neutral or even try to see someones else point of view then anti Trump supporters see you as a viable target
I've long said that Trumpism has literally nothing except imagined victimhood and "you're proving my points correct"

I do hate saying "I was proved correct" but I've been continually proved correct about this for years

And the above is a good example of why

The world is always "unfair" to Trump supporters, all because they believe in a totally crazy and hateful world of make believe which has zero basis in reality

"Respect mah hate speech"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 10:28:27 AM
Why can't we have a fair, reasonable discussion on the merits or demerits of the Glennane Gang?

Posters from both sides should be able to put their views across in a respectful manner, while also being simultaneously "unbiased", whatever that means

The intellectual case for co-operation between the British State and Loyalist freedom fighters has not been voiced on this forum and that's disappointing

All the posters seem to be biased in favour of not murdering Catholic civilians and therefore we can't take what they say seriously

And the recent "Unquiet Graves" documentary was hopelessly biased

On the question of whether the murder of Catholic civilians by the British state was necessary or unnecessary, as always the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - as in, it probably wasn't totally necessary, but it was a bit necessary

I also don't get why anybody not personally affected would care

That post is hilarious. Hilarious in this sense is a compliment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 11:35:04 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 10:37:43 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 06:46:48 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(

Online, Trump supporters are as toxic as it gets however I have to agree - on here I still be shocked how vociferous the anti Trump supporters are.
Leads to a shitshow in the country thats for sure

I don't think anybody should be surprised that opposition to Trump is vociferous. It needs to be vociferous. It should be possible to be vociferous and still fact based. By all means call people out for being fact dodgers but not for being vociferous
One of the disappointing aspects of the the ongoing fascist demonstrations in Dublin is that it seems people can't respectfully disagree with each other and still be friends

It should be possible for fascists to respectfully bring along nooses as props and call for ethnic cleansing and mass deportations, call people paedophiles based on nothing, and use Nazi rhetoric etc., and for them and their targets to still be friends at the end of the day

Why can't fascists and their victims be friends?

Personally I blame the victims

Something like that

That post is hilarious. Hilarious in this sense is not a compliment.

You are missing the point.

Everyone should stick to facts and try to avoid name calling.

The noose carriers are fascist. Call them fascists. That isn't name calling or trolling

Anybody on here defending the noose carriers is surely also a fascist. Call them that.

In carrying the battle to fascism calling them names doesn't achieve anything. Exposing the idiocy of their beliefs might though




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 11:40:14 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 11:35:04 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 10:37:43 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 06:46:48 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(

Online, Trump supporters are as toxic as it gets however I have to agree - on here I still be shocked how vociferous the anti Trump supporters are.
Leads to a shitshow in the country thats for sure

I don't think anybody should be surprised that opposition to Trump is vociferous. It needs to be vociferous. It should be possible to be vociferous and still fact based. By all means call people out for being fact dodgers but not for being vociferous
One of the disappointing aspects of the the ongoing fascist demonstrations in Dublin is that it seems people can't respectfully disagree with each other and still be friends

It should be possible for fascists to respectfully bring along nooses as props and call for ethnic cleansing and mass deportations, call people paedophiles based on nothing, and use Nazi rhetoric etc., and for them and their targets to still be friends at the end of the day

Why can't fascists and their victims be friends?

Personally I blame the victims

Something like that

That post is hilarious. Hilarious in this sense is not a compliment.

You are missing the point.

Everyone should stick to facts and try to avoid name calling.

The noose carriers are fascist. Call them fascists. That isn't name calling or trolling

Anybody on here defending the noose carriers is surely also a fascist. Call them that.

In carrying the battle to fascism calling them names doesn't achieve anything. Exposing the idiocy of their beliefs might though
I suppose the thing to note is that there is no difference between the fascist demonstrators outside the Dail and the Trump regime - except power

It's impossible to have a discussion with Irish fascists but it's also impossible to have a discussion with supporters of American fascism for the same reasons

They aren't there to debate, they're there to troll and cheerlead fascism



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 11:48:41 AM
I see Kellyanne Conway has denied her 15 year old daughter treatment for Covid even though her daughter is gravely ill

And if none of the above is true, which it seems very likely not to be - who cares, that's just a particular interpretation of facts

What seems to be actually happening is that 15 year old Claudia Conway is publicly trolling her own mother and her Goebbels-esque lies via TikTok

Which is actually very funny

Kellyanne's daughter seems fairly sound

Funny how even a child of the fascists has the ability to see through the shit, and yet a hell of lot of adults don't, or don't want to

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 02:13:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 11:40:14 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 11:35:04 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 10:37:43 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 06:46:48 AM
Quote from: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 09, 2020, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 09, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

It is pretty toxic.

I am very definitely a liberal lefty. I can still see that some on my side of the debate go too far. I can also see that some are driven to it by Trump and his supporters who adopt the same tactics.

Some no doubt do it because they know it will get a reaction.

But genuinely I believe I can stand over my contention that the standard of debate and behaviour is infinitely worse on the right. That is the way the evidence stacks up anyhow

This board, as far as politics are concerned, is by and large dominated by the left, though. And it's still toxic.  :(

Online, Trump supporters are as toxic as it gets however I have to agree - on here I still be shocked how vociferous the anti Trump supporters are.
Leads to a shitshow in the country thats for sure

I don't think anybody should be surprised that opposition to Trump is vociferous. It needs to be vociferous. It should be possible to be vociferous and still fact based. By all means call people out for being fact dodgers but not for being vociferous
One of the disappointing aspects of the the ongoing fascist demonstrations in Dublin is that it seems people can't respectfully disagree with each other and still be friends

It should be possible for fascists to respectfully bring along nooses as props and call for ethnic cleansing and mass deportations, call people paedophiles based on nothing, and use Nazi rhetoric etc., and for them and their targets to still be friends at the end of the day

Why can't fascists and their victims be friends?

Personally I blame the victims

Something like that

That post is hilarious. Hilarious in this sense is not a compliment.

You are missing the point.

Everyone should stick to facts and try to avoid name calling.

The noose carriers are fascist. Call them fascists. That isn't name calling or trolling

Anybody on here defending the noose carriers is surely also a fascist. Call them that.

In carrying the battle to fascism calling them names doesn't achieve anything. Exposing the idiocy of their beliefs might though
I suppose the thing to note is that there is no difference between the fascist demonstrators outside the Dail and the Trump regime - except power

It's impossible to have a discussion with Irish fascists but it's also impossible to have a discussion with supporters of American fascism for the same reasons

They aren't there to debate, they're there to troll and cheerlead fascism

A fascist is a fascist and deserves to be labelled thus.

If someone dodges the facts point that out. It might not change the mind of the poster but it cuts their poison off at the knee
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 02:14:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 11:48:41 AM
I see Kellyanne Conway has denied her 15 year old daughter treatment for Covid even though her daughter is gravely ill

And if none of the above is true, which it seems very likely not to be - who cares, that's just a particular interpretation of facts

What seems to be actually happening is that 15 year old Claudia Conway is publicly trolling her own mother and her Goebbels-esque lies via TikTok

Which is actually very funny

Kellyanne's daughter seems fairly sound

Funny how even a child of the fascists has the ability to see through the shit, and yet a hell of lot of adults don't, or don't want to

All true. I would add sympathies to the daughter re her illness
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 10, 2020, 02:17:29 PM
Everybody has had a breather.

So in the interests of lively but well tempered debate anybody want to defend the  POTUS against the allegation that he has used his term in office to stoke racial tension?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 10, 2020, 02:37:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 09:28:24 PM
So J70 you find this thread is not toxic?

Has it got good thought out debates with reasoned out posts?

Even in the soccer threads guys are laughing at the wind ups, some of stuff on here is venomous, are yous lot like that when chatting to guys in work about these issues?

Anyone can have an opinion on here, one would be America (based on this thread) is a horrible place with a more divided nation than Ireland

But hey, this isn't a slight on ex pats moving away and having a better life for themselves, I've close relatives who live there and do well. I've a cousin who's contemplating coming home for good due to the current state of play

You're right, there isn't much reasoned, thought out debate. To me, the blame goes to the fact that its hard to defend the indefensible i.e. the current Republican Party.

We have an objectively bigoted, incompetent, anti-intellectual demogogue whose primary motivation is his own self-interest and aggrandizement in the White House. Most people on this thread, having been brought up in a country with a very good education system and a moderate political consensus can see that and call it out, some more stridently than others, some maybe going a little too far. Those here who fall on the right on the US political scale generally resort to either half-baked, reactionary, conspiracy bullshit, or grievance-airing about supposed underhanded dirty tricks on the part of the Democratic Party and the supposedly biased US media. There's never really any defense of the policies of the right wing, only gloating about liberal tears or them getting their supposedly due-comeuppance. This thread very often goes into lulls until someone posts some right wing nonsense, then it picks up steam for a day, then it dies again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 10, 2020, 02:37:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 09:28:24 PM
So J70 you find this thread is not toxic?

Has it got good thought out debates with reasoned out posts?

Even in the soccer threads guys are laughing at the wind ups, some of stuff on here is venomous, are yous lot like that when chatting to guys in work about these issues?

Anyone can have an opinion on here, one would be America (based on this thread) is a horrible place with a more divided nation than Ireland

But hey, this isn't a slight on ex pats moving away and having a better life for themselves, I've close relatives who live there and do well. I've a cousin who's contemplating coming home for good due to the current state of play

You're right, there isn't much reasoned, thought out debate. To me, the blame goes to the fact that its hard to defend the indefensible i.e. the current Republican Party.

We have an objectively bigoted, incompetent, anti-intellectual demogogue whose primary motivation is his own self-interest and aggrandizement in the White House. Most people on this thread, having been brought up in a country with a very good education system and a moderate political consensus can see that and call it out, some more stridently than others, some maybe going a little too far. Those here who fall on the right on the US political scale generally resort to either half-baked, reactionary, conspiracy bullshit, or grievance-airing about supposed underhanded dirty tricks on the part of the Democratic Party and the supposedly biased US media. There's never really any defense of the policies of the right wing, only gloating about liberal tears or them getting their supposedly due-comeuppance. This thread very often goes into lulls until someone posts some right wing nonsense, then it picks up steam for a day, then it dies again.
To be honest I don't think anybody who is anti-Trump is going too far on this thread, I'm not sure how you could go "too far"

I mean Trump's entire modus operandi is to go too far every second of every day of every month of every year

For the last five years there has been consistent gaslighting everywhere you look in the media telling us that Trump is not what he is

He is what he is - a fascist who was prepared to do anything to first of all gain power and now to hold on to it

The "he's not really what he seems, calm down, you're being hysterical" people have been wrong every step of the way and those who were called "crazy", "paranoid conspiracy fantasists" and "hysterical" have been continually proven correct

I've said this before but there is incredible historical ignorance about what the real lessons of World War II were

The simplest, most distilled real lesson of World War II was "never again"

"Never again" means that when fascism rears its grotesque head it has to be stamped out before it can gain a foothold - because when it gains a foothold it becomes very difficult, almost impossible to stop - there is no telling exactly where it all ends - but the logical endpoint is genocide, that's what happens when an ideology goes so far that the idea behind that idelogy eclipses everything, eclipses the world, eclipses existence

Fascism is NOT one more legitimate strand of political discourse, you cannot have a pint with a fascist and say to them "oh, we have our political differences but at the end of the day we remain friends"

The lesson of World War II was NOT "we must never invoke historical comparisons to the Nazis and World War II until it has been proven that another Holocaust has already taken place"

But this is the fake "lesson" that the entirety of the international right-wing want us to believe as they try to create a world of mini-Hungarys, client states for the unholy alliance of Putin, the Saudis, the far right of Israel and the US far right, where corrupt anarcho-capitalism and white supremacism runs amok and international co-operation is destroyed

I wonder were there supporters of fascism in the 1930s who claimed fake victimhood because people who were against fascism wouldn't have a "civilised and reasonable" discussion with them

I think there were, you know

We're three and a half weeks away from Trump throwing out what remains of American democracy

And it will be "legal", when fascists take power it's always "legal"

Ignore the polls - the battle will likely be on the streets, like in Belarus

And every person in the US who is against fascism needs to be prepared to take to streets to stop it gaining total power, that means people who post here and live in the US

This is the reality
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 10, 2020, 03:50:13 PM
Sid, you're clearly capable of fighting your own battles and defending your own style of debate. I absolutely agree that Trump has fascist and racist tendencies, as does much of his support and staff; however, I personally think you're a bit quick to call certain posters or their views fascist or racist. There has been once or twice on the board when I've done so myself, but only in extreme cases like, say, foxcommander. And even if you are absolutely convinced, IMO your arguments are smart enough to make your points without being inflammatory and antagonizing others who probably agree with you anyway. For whatever that is worth...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on October 10, 2020, 04:57:39 PM
In the economist this week, not exactly some whiny liberal paper

Leaders
American democracy
Don't rob them, count them
In the midst of the pandemic, the plague of voter suppression spreads
A president in hospital, virus in the White House, a fight over the Supreme Court, leaked presidential tax returns: it is enough to make you reel. Amid the tumult of the campaign, it is easy to miss a less frenzied turn of events that has no less profound implications for America's democracy. It concerns suppressing the vote. "Elections belong to the people," said the Republican Party's greatest president. What, then, would Abraham Lincoln make of his partymen's efforts—in Florida, North and South Carolina, Texas, Wisconsin and other contested states—to limit the number of people the coming election belongs to?

Allegations of minority-voter suppression are hardly new. They are also often overheated and hard to prove. Yet Greg Abbott's action in Texas stands out (see United States section). On October 1st the Republican governor restricted the number of drop boxes for completed ballots to just one per county. For the 4.7m residents of Harris County, 70% of whom are non-white and liable to vote Democratic, that is a travesty.

Echoing President Donald Trump, Mr Abbott said this was necessary to prevent voter fraud. Wisconsin's Republican legislature said the same to justify restricting early voting in the state, as did their counterparts in the Carolinas when insisting on the need for a witness counter-signature on mail-in ballots. Preventing fraud is a sound principle. Some Republican measures, including in Texas, involve tightening up covid-19 provisions for early voting that those same lawmakers had introduced. In practice, however, concerns about electoral fraud, which Republican lawmakers have cited in 25 states over the past decade, are almost always unfounded. This makes their arguments against the special covid-19 provisions hard to sustain.

The only major instance of voter fraud in recent times was perpetrated by a rogue Republican activist in North Carolina. There is no evidence of the mass Democratic electoral fraud many Republicans claim to detect. Mr Trump, who alleged that 5m votes were cast illegally for Hillary Clinton in 2016, launched a commission to find some. It returned empty-handed. Meanwhile, examples of new Republican restrictions have piled up.

In Georgia, Ohio and Texas at least 160,000 people, disproportionately non-white, were wrongly removed or marked for removal from the electoral roll in 2018-19. And though the effect of recent measures is unclear, Florida hints at what may be to come. The state voted in 2018 to enfranchise felons who had met all their obligations, an estimated 1.4m people—including a fifth of black Floridians. The Republican legislature passed a law enacting this plebiscite that interpreted those obligations in the most onerous way possible by demanding they first settle all outstanding fines. Former felons were always likely to be low-propensity voters, but this erected a formidable bureaucratic hurdle even to those able to pay. As Florida's registration deadline passed this week, perhaps one in six had registered to vote.

Mr Trump's threat that he will refuse to accept the election results has raised fears of a constitutional crisis. They need to be taken seriously. More likely, however, these practised instances of vote suppression will turn out to be the election's real lasting democratic damage. It is perverse for one party in a democracy to shape its politics around suppressing the vote. Adopting this as a political tool is especially foul in a country where African-Americans were denied the vote in living memory.

The tactic is the apogee of Republican short-termism. True, Georgia's governor may owe his job to suppressing black votes. But the party will sooner or later be unable to win national elections if it cannot woo non-whites. With every cycle of electoral abuse, the party of Lincoln is handing them fresh grievances.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 05:00:32 PM
The show I watched the other night, the social dilemma, when asked what they see going forward, a few of them said another civil war!

America is so polarised, reforms and equality has to be brought in. How will they cure the racism now, on both sides? The country that boasts about being the best really  needs to know what being the best is!



It's a pain watching outside in, as I said my cousin has been back since May, very successful business in Manhattan. Both kids in a private  New York School, but she's thinking very seriously of staying 'Home'

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 05:09:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 10, 2020, 03:50:13 PM
Sid, you're clearly capable of fighting your own battles and defending your own style of debate. I absolutely agree that Trump has fascist and racist tendencies, as does much of his support and staff; however, I personally think you're a bit quick to call certain posters or their views fascist or racist. There has been once or twice on the board when I've done so myself, but only in extreme cases like, say, foxcommander. And even if you are absolutely convinced, IMO your arguments are smart enough to make your points without being inflammatory and antagonizing others who probably agree with you anyway. For whatever that is worth...
I cannot see how anybody could support Trump and not be a white supremacist

White supremacism is the central defining tenet of what Trumpism is about

If one supports Trump, one supports that central defining tenet of what Trumpism is about

In the case of the small minority of people of colour who support Trump, they are prepared to tolerate white supremacism, which is the same thing as being a white supremacist

Saying that one can be a Trump supporter but not a white supremacist is like saying that one can be a Nazi but not an anti-Semite

It's important to note that there were actually Jews who supported Hitler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 05:16:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 05:00:32 PM
It's a pain watching outside in, as I said my cousin has been back since May, very successful business in Manhattan. Both kids in a private  New York School, but she's thinking very seriously of staying 'Home'

Yeah, like it isn't as if civil war is likely to break out in Belfast.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 05:00:32 PM
The show I watched the other night, the social dilemma, when asked what they see going forward, a few of them said another civil war!

America is so polarised, reforms and equality has to be brought in. How will they cure the racism now, on both sides? The country that boasts about being the best really  needs to know what being the best is!



It's a pain watching outside in, as I said my cousin has been back since May, very successful business in Manhattan. Both kids in a private  New York School, but she's thinking very seriously of staying 'Home'

There isn't a serious problem with anti-white racism

There is a serious problem with anti-black and anti-people of colour racism among white people

It exists among Biden supporters and among all political persuasions, but the Republican party and its associated media is overwhelmingly the political vehicle for this racism and its most dangerous manifestations

The Republican party and its associated media is, by far, where the main problem lies

And until they are disbanded or very radically reformed, that problem will continue

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 05:16:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 05:00:32 PM
It's a pain watching outside in, as I said my cousin has been back since May, very successful business in Manhattan. Both kids in a private  New York School, but she's thinking very seriously of staying 'Home'

Yeah, like it isn't as if civil war is likely to break out in Belfast.

The civil war wasn't my quote, it came from real Americans. While we still have our differences my post is about what's happening in the USA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2020, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland? ;)

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Without America there'd have been no Anglo Irish Agreement (Thatcher openly admitted it was the yanks that made her sign it) and likely no Good Friday Agreement either. The MacBride Principles brought American economic pressure to end discriminatory employment practices in the north. 20% of employment in the free state is dependent on US investment.

America matters in Ireland, whether you know it or not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 10, 2020, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 05:09:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 10, 2020, 03:50:13 PM
Sid, you're clearly capable of fighting your own battles and defending your own style of debate. I absolutely agree that Trump has fascist and racist tendencies, as does much of his support and staff; however, I personally think you're a bit quick to call certain posters or their views fascist or racist. There has been once or twice on the board when I've done so myself, but only in extreme cases like, say, foxcommander. And even if you are absolutely convinced, IMO your arguments are smart enough to make your points without being inflammatory and antagonizing others who probably agree with you anyway. For whatever that is worth...
I cannot see how anybody could support Trump and not be a white supremacist

White supremacism is the central defining tenet of what Trumpism is about

If one supports Trump, one supports that central defining tenet of what Trumpism is about

In the case of the small minority of people of colour who support Trump, they are prepared to tolerate white supremacism, which is the same thing as being a white supremacist

Saying that one can be a Trump supporter but not a white supremacist is like saying that one can be a Nazi but not an anti-Semite

It's important to note that there were actually Jews who supported Hitler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews



Godwin's Law
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 11:28:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2020, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland? ;)

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Without America there'd have been no Anglo Irish Agreement (Thatcher openly admitted it was the yanks that made her sign it) and likely no Good Friday Agreement either. The MacBride Principles brought American economic pressure to end discriminatory employment practices in the north. 20% of employment in the free state is dependent on US investment.

America matters in Ireland, whether you know it or not.

Eamon keep telling yourself that and you'll believe it.. Do you think those American companies should be paying the correct taxes?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 11:29:29 PM
We should be thanking them for McDonald's too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 11, 2020, 12:27:08 AM
Quote from: dec on October 10, 2020, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 05:09:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 10, 2020, 03:50:13 PM
Sid, you're clearly capable of fighting your own battles and defending your own style of debate. I absolutely agree that Trump has fascist and racist tendencies, as does much of his support and staff; however, I personally think you're a bit quick to call certain posters or their views fascist or racist. There has been once or twice on the board when I've done so myself, but only in extreme cases like, say, foxcommander. And even if you are absolutely convinced, IMO your arguments are smart enough to make your points without being inflammatory and antagonizing others who probably agree with you anyway. For whatever that is worth...
I cannot see how anybody could support Trump and not be a white supremacist

White supremacism is the central defining tenet of what Trumpism is about

If one supports Trump, one supports that central defining tenet of what Trumpism is about

In the case of the small minority of people of colour who support Trump, they are prepared to tolerate white supremacism, which is the same thing as being a white supremacist

Saying that one can be a Trump supporter but not a white supremacist is like saying that one can be a Nazi but not an anti-Semite

It's important to note that there were actually Jews who supported Hitler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews



Godwin's Law
Given that you've heard of Godwin's Law I'm sure you're aware that Mike Godwin wrote, in the early stages of Trump's candidacy, that considered comparisons between Trump and Hitler were absolutely legitimate

https://web.archive.org/web/20170209163428/https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/

Godwin's Law was basically a meme created to ridicule spurious comparisons to the Nazis

So, for example, the beloved trope of right-wingers to demonise feminists - "feminazis" - would certainly fall under that category, another example would be Brexiteers who compare the EU to the Nazis

These comparisons are self consciously ludicrous

While my comparison is not because it is genuinely held, historically literate and reasonable, especially so given that Trump has actually continually offered support and succour to white supremacists and neo-Nazis

You'd also have to ignore Trump's own defence secretary, James Mattis, who invoked the Nazis in a warning about Trump in June 2020, as well as historians and other experts on authoritarianism who hold that such a comparison is appropriate

Godwin's Law unfortunately tends to be invoked in ways that were not intended by its creator and your invocation of it is an example

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 11, 2020, 12:39:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 11:28:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2020, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland? ;)

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Without America there'd have been no Anglo Irish Agreement (Thatcher openly admitted it was the yanks that made her sign it) and likely no Good Friday Agreement either. The MacBride Principles brought American economic pressure to end discriminatory employment practices in the north. 20% of employment in the free state is dependent on US investment.

America matters in Ireland, whether you know it or not.

Eamon keep telling yourself that and you'll believe it.. Do you think those American companies should be paying the correct taxes?
fighting Irish just about to kick off .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2020, 04:20:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 11:28:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2020, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland? ;)

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Without America there'd have been no Anglo Irish Agreement (Thatcher openly admitted it was the yanks that made her sign it) and likely no Good Friday Agreement either. The MacBride Principles brought American economic pressure to end discriminatory employment practices in the north. 20% of employment in the free state is dependent on US investment.

America matters in Ireland, whether you know it or not.

Eamon keep telling yourself that and you'll believe it.. Do you think those American companies should be paying the correct taxes?

So Thatcher would have signed the AIA without American intervention? The MacBride Principles didn't help to end discrimination? 20% of jobs in the free state don't depend on US investment? What exactly are you trying to argue here?

(We're not talking about taxation.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2020, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 11, 2020, 12:39:20 AM
fighting Irish just about to kick off .

Any chance of you condemning the terrorist plot to kidnap and kill a democratically elected state governor?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 11, 2020, 04:56:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2020, 04:20:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 11:28:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2020, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland? ;)

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Without America there'd have been no Anglo Irish Agreement (Thatcher openly admitted it was the yanks that made her sign it) and likely no Good Friday Agreement either. The MacBride Principles brought American economic pressure to end discriminatory employment practices in the north. 20% of employment in the free state is dependent on US investment.

America matters in Ireland, whether you know it or not.

Eamon keep telling yourself that and you'll believe it.. Do you think those American companies should be paying the correct taxes?

So Thatcher would have signed the AIA without American intervention? The MacBride Principles didn't help to end discrimination? 20% of jobs in the free state don't depend on US investment? What exactly are you trying to argue here?

(We're not talking about taxation.)

Agree 100%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
+1.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2020, 04:20:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 11:28:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2020, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland? ;)

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Without America there'd have been no Anglo Irish Agreement (Thatcher openly admitted it was the yanks that made her sign it) and likely no Good Friday Agreement either. The MacBride Principles brought American economic pressure to end discriminatory employment practices in the north. 20% of employment in the free state is dependent on US investment.

America matters in Ireland, whether you know it or not.

Eamon keep telling yourself that and you'll believe it.. Do you think those American companies should be paying the correct taxes?

So Thatcher would have signed the AIA without American intervention? The MacBride Principles didn't help to end discrimination? 20% of jobs in the free state don't depend on US investment? What exactly are you trying to argue here?

(We're not talking about taxation.)

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?

20 percent of those jobs? can you give me a link to that ?

As for fair employment NI had this started in 76, amendments came in 88, then improved in 98, the Macbride principals may have speeded things up, but mechanisms were in place.

I've never looked at America as a place that actually improved us, we gave them plenty of people over the years that may have made improvements on their soil but that's it!

So let me get this straight, and answer this separately please. America brought about the peace process?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 01:38:42 PM
Would be good to hear the Trump supporter views on the latest from the great man and his campaign.

The misuse of the Fauci quote would be embarrassing to any other man/campaign. These guys are determined to style it out.

Trump's claim that he is immune to Covid now proves the man hasn't the slightest understanding of what it is that he is supposed to be managing. And he has had the virus.

Paying people to attend your rally looks bad. Should there even be rallies during a pandemic?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 12, 2020, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 10:10:01 PM

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?


American companies do pay the right tax in Ireland.

Do you think every American company got a ruling the same as Apple? And the only companies who got rulings were American?

Apple's structure was from 1980, and was very unusual.

The Facebooks, Googles, Twitters, etc all pay exactly the right amount of tax on their Irish profits. 12.5% the same as everyone else.
Did many American companies avoid US tax by legally moving their IP from the US to a haven, and thus having the haven enjoy all the super profits from their IP at 0%?
- Yes, but they paid the right amount of Irish tax and now with changes brought about by the OECD and EU, the haven structures no longer work.

US companies are paying a huge amount of Irish corporation tax now (not to mention their contribution to payroll taxes and VAT), and they are the reason our current deficit isn't as bad as feared. 


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on October 12, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
I see MR2 is on another one of these crusades where he actively navigates to a thread on a discussion board and starts telling people that they shouldn't be discussing the topic.

Genuinely weird behaviour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 12, 2020, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 10:10:01 PM

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?


American companies do pay the right tax in Ireland.

Do you think every American company got a ruling the same as Apple? And the only companies who got rulings were American?

Apple's structure was from 1980, and was very unusual.

The Facebooks, Googles, Twitters, etc all pay exactly the right amount of tax on their Irish profits. 12.5% the same as everyone else.
Did many American companies avoid US tax by legally moving their IP from the US to a haven, and thus having the haven enjoy all the super profits from their IP at 0%?
- Yes, but they paid the right amount of Irish tax and now with changes brought about by the OECD and EU, the haven structures no longer work.

US companies are paying a huge amount of Irish corporation tax now (not to mention their contribution to payroll taxes and VAT), and they are the reason our current deficit isn't as bad as feared.

Apple's unusual agreement

Apple used this new capital allowance scheme in 2016 to shift its intellectual property out of Jersey into Ireland. This onshoring of €300bn of capital created the infamous 26% growth in Irish GDP. But this is little more than leprechaun economics – using Ireland as a treasure island for storing the intangible capital assets of big-tech multinational enterprises. And until the EU creates common laws that make tax avoidance in member states illegal, small sovereign states will continue to play an important role in helping global corporations minimise the tax they pay.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2020, 02:11:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 12, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
I see MR2 is on another one of these crusades where he actively navigates to a thread on a discussion board and starts telling people that they shouldn't be discussing the topic.

Genuinely weird behaviour.

Which is weird behaviour ?

You coming in behind me on posts ? Look I'm not interested

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 12, 2020, 02:47:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 12, 2020, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 10:10:01 PM

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?


American companies do pay the right tax in Ireland.

Do you think every American company got a ruling the same as Apple? And the only companies who got rulings were American?

Apple's structure was from 1980, and was very unusual.

The Facebooks, Googles, Twitters, etc all pay exactly the right amount of tax on their Irish profits. 12.5% the same as everyone else.
Did many American companies avoid US tax by legally moving their IP from the US to a haven, and thus having the haven enjoy all the super profits from their IP at 0%?
- Yes, but they paid the right amount of Irish tax and now with changes brought about by the OECD and EU, the haven structures no longer work.

US companies are paying a huge amount of Irish corporation tax now (not to mention their contribution to payroll taxes and VAT), and they are the reason our current deficit isn't as bad as feared.

Apple's unusual agreement

Apple used this new capital allowance scheme in 2016 to shift its intellectual property out of Jersey into Ireland. This onshoring of €300bn of capital created the infamous 26% growth in Irish GDP. But this is little more than leprechaun economics – using Ireland as a treasure island for storing the intangible capital assets of big-tech multinational enterprises. And until the EU creates common laws that make tax avoidance in member states illegal, small sovereign states will continue to play an important role in helping global corporations minimise the tax they pay.
Just so everyone is clear, the movement of IP into Ireland is nothing to do with the "Apple case"

Many Irish companies have bought IP in recent years. There is no other territory that says companies should not be able to claim capital allowances on IP acquired.

This is new economy stuff. For decades and decades any company could claim capital allowances on assets purchased. This would typically have been machinery or plant, but now includes intellectual property. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and many (most?) countries allow similar.

The great benefit of moving IP into Ireland (in addition to the profits and tax that also move to Ireland) is that substance must now follow the IP. Under old rules you could have a haven owing IP, no people in the haven and super-profits in the haven. But now if you have little substance you'd be taxed at a higher rate, would be ineligible for the capital allowances and group companies making payments to the IP company would get no tax deductions. So MNCs have to move their IP to locations with substance or where they intend to put substance.

So for the likes of Apple and others who already employ thousands in Ireland, moving their IP to Ireland was ideal. Many other companies have moved their IP to Ireland and are now employing many more people. More jobs, more tax, no tax avoidance.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2020, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 01:38:42 PM
Would be good to hear the Trump supporter views on the latest from the great man and his campaign.

The misuse of the Fauci quote would be embarrassing to any other man/campaign. These guys are determined to style it out.

Trump's claim that he is immune to Covid now proves the man hasn't the slightest understanding of what it is that he is supposed to be managing. And he has had the virus.

Paying people to attend your rally looks bad. Should there even be rallies during a pandemic?

At this point, what are they going to say? What can they say? I guess, in their deluded, misinformed, paranoid views, he's better than the commie libtards and "experts" who are going to turn their kids gay, take their guns away and ban christianity and the speaking of English.

Even his campaign are basically throwing in the towel.

All they've got left are Hillary's emails and supposedly, any day now I tell ya, appalling and devastating revelations that her campaign pushed the Trump's campaign's Russian connections to deflect from her own troubles.

We haven't had Hunter Biden since the debate. Maybe he'll be lofted back at the wall again too.

Most presidents seeking re-election run on their record. Trump hasn't got anything useful or non-detrimental with respect to re-election in his. So its false victimhood, misrepresentation and conspiracy theories.

Most times and places, at least in recent history, that would be that. Given the state of the US right wing, unfortunately, as well as the electoral college system, he could still win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2020, 05:18:09 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/183ca929-3cbe-4705-a92a-d65a806741b5

An FT analysis of recent state polls gives Mr Biden an almost seven-point advantage in both Michigan and Pennsylvania, and a six-point edge in Wisconsin — three Midwestern states that were crucial in Mr Trump's come-from-behind victory in 2016
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2020, 05:36:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2020, 05:18:09 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/183ca929-3cbe-4705-a92a-d65a806741b5

An FT analysis of recent state polls gives Mr Biden an almost seven-point advantage in both Michigan and Pennsylvania, and a six-point edge in Wisconsin — three Midwestern states that were crucial in Mr Trump's come-from-behind victory in 2016

The final poll spread in Wisconsin in 2016 was Clinton +6.5

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/wi/wisconsin_trump_vs_clinton-5659.html#polls

I suspect that was a broadly accurate representation of public opinion and voter opinion there

Which is very worrying for this election

Polls cannot factor in voter suppression or voter falsification or vote binning or "legal" chicanery

Unless and until Biden is sworn in on January 20th, this is a fight to the death and the only rule is that there are no rules - Trump has decided that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2020, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2020, 04:20:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2020, 11:28:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2020, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland? ;)

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Without America there'd have been no Anglo Irish Agreement (Thatcher openly admitted it was the yanks that made her sign it) and likely no Good Friday Agreement either. The MacBride Principles brought American economic pressure to end discriminatory employment practices in the north. 20% of employment in the free state is dependent on US investment.

America matters in Ireland, whether you know it or not.

Eamon keep telling yourself that and you'll believe it.. Do you think those American companies should be paying the correct taxes?

So Thatcher would have signed the AIA without American intervention? The MacBride Principles didn't help to end discrimination? 20% of jobs in the free state don't depend on US investment? What exactly are you trying to argue here?

(We're not talking about taxation.)

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?

20 percent of those jobs? can you give me a link to that ?

As for fair employment NI had this started in 76, amendments came in 88, then improved in 98, the Macbride principals may have speeded things up, but mechanisms were in place.

I've never looked at America as a place that actually improved us, we gave them plenty of people over the years that may have made improvements on their soil but that's it!

So let me get this straight, and answer this separately please. America brought about the peace process?

Corporate taxation in Ireland is something I'll be happy to discuss on another thread.

The source of the 20% of investment figure is here:

https://center-forward.org/united-states-foreign-direct-investment-in-ireland/

As recently as the 1980s catholics were still twice as likely to be unemployed as protestants. Some measures like the Fair Employment Agency were in place, but they were not immediately effective. The MacBride Principles put British ministers on the back foot and forced them to deal with the reality of anti-catholic discrimination in the north and do something about it that was going to actually work. According to recently declassified papers:

Quote'Fair employment' campaign for Catholics alarmed British in 1985 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fair-employment-campaign-for-catholics-alarmed-british-in-1985-1.1911278)

"British government concern at the success of an Irish-American campaign to have the "MacBride principles" on fair employment in Northern Ireland adopted by US companies is revealed in declassified State papers.

In their attempts to counter the escalating campaign, Northern Ireland officials were forced to concede privately that much more needed to be done to counter anti-Catholic discrimination in the North.

The MacBride principles, drawn up by former Irish foreign minister and Nobel prizewinner Seán MacBride, included provision for affirmative action in the workplace to tackle Catholic under-representation, protection for minority employees at work and "the banning of provocative religious and political emblems".

In a memo to officials headed "Disinvestment from the USA", dated January 28th, 1985, JM Lyon of the Northern Ireland Office (NIO) noted: "The Irish National Caucus (INC) in the USA are seeking to persuade American companies to withdraw from their investments in NI.

"This is potentially extremely damaging and we are making every effort to thwart them."

He noted that the INC was close to Noraid in the US. Lyon reported that the INC was seeking to exploit the MacBride Principles in two ways: "First, they had promoted a Bill in New York City Council which would compel the city's pension funds to withdraw investments from any company in NI which did not implement the principles."

Support
Second, the Sisters of St Joseph of Peace in the US were conducting a campaign to encourage shareholders in US companies operating in Northern Ireland to oblige their companies to enforce the principles. Lyon concluded: "The threat to American companies in NI is real. There are at present 12, all of which may be vulnerable."

These included Gallahers, Ford, Dupont and General Motors. There was a tangible threat to companies thinking of investing in NI, he noted.

     
Damning critique
On February 11th, 1985, AJ Merifield disputed claims by his colleagues that the government's fair employment legislation and the work of its Fair Employment Agency (FEA) had "acted effectively to counter discrimination". He went on: "This may be true in general terms but I believe the MacBride principles are aimed at a more serious structural problem and one in which we have made only limited progress during Direct Rule . . ."

Merifield pointed out "virtually no change has taken place in the relative employment patterns by religious affiliation since 1971". Among other things, Catholics were found to be under-represented in the manufacturing sector while Protestants continued to dominate the most prestigious and strategic industries.

Merifield told his colleagues that, in 1983, 36 per cent of economically active Catholic males were unemployed, compared with 14 per cent of their Protestant counterparts, adding: "We can argue that fair employment legislation has its part to play, but its impact on the immediate position of Catholic jobs is slow" while they could not claim too much for the FEA legislation.

Finally the NIO was later faced with the publication by comptroller Harold Goldwin of New York council of a report on employment patterns in Northern Ireland, which David Fell of the department of commerce at Stormont condemned as "selective, unbalanced and simplistic" in a March 13th, 1985, memo."

As for America, the peace process would have been a lot harder to bring about without American involvement. A lot of stars aligned during that time, as Sinn Fein had stated at the time. We had Albert Reynolds as Taoiseach, a man with a business background rather than the traditional background of southern politicians, no baggage, and a shrewd problem-solving level-headed approach. He was willing to unashamedly back the nationalist cause while working with John Major to create an avenue for Sinn Fein to enter the process politically. Then we had Tony Blair as UK Prime Minister, a rare case of a British PM who actually knew something about Ireland and understood the nature of the problem. And we had Bill Clinton in the White House, who, for all his faults, understood the importance of sorting out regional conflicts and was willing to use American diplomatic heft to get the job done. Senator Mitchell was a pivotal figure in the negotiations. He could keep a cool head when all around him were losing theirs.

There were many factors that brought the peace process about. Many people who made it happen. But you cannot deny that America had a huge role to play in it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 01:38:42 PM
Would be good to hear the Trump supporter views on the latest from the great man and his campaign.

The misuse of the Fauci quote would be embarrassing to any other man/campaign. These guys are determined to style it out.

Trump's claim that he is immune to Covid now proves the man hasn't the slightest understanding of what it is that he is supposed to be managing. And he has had the virus.

Paying people to attend your rally looks bad. Should there even be rallies during a pandemic?

At this point, what are they going to say? What can they say? I guess, in their deluded, misinformed, paranoid views, he's better than the commie libtards and "experts" who are going to turn their kids gay, take their guns away and ban christianity and the speaking of English.

Even his campaign are basically throwing in the towel.

All they've got left are Hillary's emails and supposedly, any day now I tell ya, appalling and devastating revelations that her campaign pushed the Trump's campaign's Russian connections to deflect from her own troubles.

We haven't had Hunter Biden since the debate. Maybe he'll be lofted back at the wall again too.

Most presidents seeking re-election run on their record. Trump hasn't got anything useful or non-detrimental with respect to re-election in his. So its false victimhood, misrepresentation and conspiracy theories.

Most times and places, at least in recent history, that would be that. Given the state of the US right wing, unfortunately, as well as the electoral college system, he could still win.

I know that Trump fans are keen to have fact based examinations of track record and I know that his friends on this thread are keen to have a full and frank but well mannered debate so I would have thought they felt duty bound to front up with something.

On Covid it's clear that Trump is clueless. He has no concept of the enormity of the issue. So I would expect his friends to explain how that is not the case or explain that it's either good or at least unimportant that POTUS doesn't understand this issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2020, 06:27:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 01:38:42 PM
Would be good to hear the Trump supporter views on the latest from the great man and his campaign.

The misuse of the Fauci quote would be embarrassing to any other man/campaign. These guys are determined to style it out.

Trump's claim that he is immune to Covid now proves the man hasn't the slightest understanding of what it is that he is supposed to be managing. And he has had the virus.

Paying people to attend your rally looks bad. Should there even be rallies during a pandemic?

At this point, what are they going to say? What can they say? I guess, in their deluded, misinformed, paranoid views, he's better than the commie libtards and "experts" who are going to turn their kids gay, take their guns away and ban christianity and the speaking of English.

Even his campaign are basically throwing in the towel.

All they've got left are Hillary's emails and supposedly, any day now I tell ya, appalling and devastating revelations that her campaign pushed the Trump's campaign's Russian connections to deflect from her own troubles.

We haven't had Hunter Biden since the debate. Maybe he'll be lofted back at the wall again too.

Most presidents seeking re-election run on their record. Trump hasn't got anything useful or non-detrimental with respect to re-election in his. So its false victimhood, misrepresentation and conspiracy theories.

Most times and places, at least in recent history, that would be that. Given the state of the US right wing, unfortunately, as well as the electoral college system, he could still win.

Remember "Obamagate?" The big, vague, nebulous, non-accusation that Obama did "something" awful but they forgot to say what it was he was supposed to have done? There'll probably be a "Bidengate" where Biden supposedly did something something Ukraine something something scandal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:34:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2020, 06:27:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 01:38:42 PM
Would be good to hear the Trump supporter views on the latest from the great man and his campaign.

The misuse of the Fauci quote would be embarrassing to any other man/campaign. These guys are determined to style it out.

Trump's claim that he is immune to Covid now proves the man hasn't the slightest understanding of what it is that he is supposed to be managing. And he has had the virus.

Paying people to attend your rally looks bad. Should there even be rallies during a pandemic?

At this point, what are they going to say? What can they say? I guess, in their deluded, misinformed, paranoid views, he's better than the commie libtards and "experts" who are going to turn their kids gay, take their guns away and ban christianity and the speaking of English.

Even his campaign are basically throwing in the towel.

All they've got left are Hillary's emails and supposedly, any day now I tell ya, appalling and devastating revelations that her campaign pushed the Trump's campaign's Russian connections to deflect from her own troubles.

We haven't had Hunter Biden since the debate. Maybe he'll be lofted back at the wall again too.

Most presidents seeking re-election run on their record. Trump hasn't got anything useful or non-detrimental with respect to re-election in his. So its false victimhood, misrepresentation and conspiracy theories.

Most times and places, at least in recent history, that would be that. Given the state of the US right wing, unfortunately, as well as the electoral college system, he could still win.

Remember "Obamagate?" The big, vague, nebulous, non-accusation that Obama did "something" awful but they forgot to say what it was he was supposed to have done? There'll probably be a "Bidengate" where Biden supposedly did something something Ukraine something something scandal.

One of those "somethings" will undoubtably be Hillary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:45:51 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 01:38:42 PM
Would be good to hear the Trump supporter views on the latest from the great man and his campaign.

The misuse of the Fauci quote would be embarrassing to any other man/campaign. These guys are determined to style it out.

Trump's claim that he is immune to Covid now proves the man hasn't the slightest understanding of what it is that he is supposed to be managing. And he has had the virus.

Paying people to attend your rally looks bad. Should there even be rallies during a pandemic?

At this point, what are they going to say? What can they say? I guess, in their deluded, misinformed, paranoid views, he's better than the commie libtards and "experts" who are going to turn their kids gay, take their guns away and ban christianity and the speaking of English.

Even his campaign are basically throwing in the towel.

All they've got left are Hillary's emails and supposedly, any day now I tell ya, appalling and devastating revelations that her campaign pushed the Trump's campaign's Russian connections to deflect from her own troubles.

We haven't had Hunter Biden since the debate. Maybe he'll be lofted back at the wall again too.

Most presidents seeking re-election run on their record. Trump hasn't got anything useful or non-detrimental with respect to re-election in his. So its false victimhood, misrepresentation and conspiracy theories.

Most times and places, at least in recent history, that would be that. Given the state of the US right wing, unfortunately, as well as the electoral college system, he could still win.

I know that Trump fans are keen to have fact based examinations of track record and I know that his friends on this thread are keen to have a full and frank but well mannered debate so I would have thought they felt duty bound to front up with something.

On Covid it's clear that Trump is clueless. He has no concept of the enormity of the issue. So I would expect his friends to explain how that is not the case or explain that it's either good or at least unimportant that POTUS doesn't understand this issue.

I think he is fully aware of how serious it is, or at least he was in the beginning when he admitted as much to Woodward.

Unfortunately for everyone he sees it as something that happened TO him and his presidency, something that has victimized him, not something that happens which he, in his position, is supposed to manage the country through. Unfortunately for everyone AND him, he couldn't wish it away and use bullshit and distraction to take it out of the news. That might work with the succession of scandals that, at this point, are enough to have ended multiple political careers, but a highly contagious and serious disease is going to keep coming and coming. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2020, 06:50:20 PM
What colour is the sky in San Francisco today?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
nancy has some balls talking about anyone else's mental capacity. Good morning Sunday morning ffs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2020, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
nancy has some balls talking about anyone else's mental capacity. Good morning Sunday morning ffs

I know its hard to judge with Trump, but he was on a whole new level of unhinged last week. Given that he was confirmed to be on a cocktail of drugs, including steroids know to cause mania, it was perfectly valid to question his fitness for the job, especially with the utter disregard he showed for his staff, both admin and non-admin, in the WH. His sycophantic doctors are not exactly reassuring either. A lone verbal gaffe by Pelosi is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
nancy has some balls talking about anyone else's mental capacity. Good morning Sunday morning ffs

I know its hard to judge with Trump, but he was on a whole new level of unhinged last week. Given that he was confirmed to be on a cocktail of drugs, including steroids know to cause mania, it was perfectly valid to question his fitness for the job, especially with the utter disregard he showed for his staff, both admin and non-admin, in the WH. His sycophantic doctors are not exactly reassuring either. A lone verbal gaffe by Pelosi is irrelevant.
its not about trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2020, 07:47:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
nancy has some balls talking about anyone else's mental capacity. Good morning Sunday morning ffs

I know its hard to judge with Trump, but he was on a whole new level of unhinged last week. Given that he was confirmed to be on a cocktail of drugs, including steroids know to cause mania, it was perfectly valid to question his fitness for the job, especially with the utter disregard he showed for his staff, both admin and non-admin, in the WH. His sycophantic doctors are not exactly reassuring either. A lone verbal gaffe by Pelosi is irrelevant.
its not about trump

Trump's behaviour is what prompted it.

Just because commission doesn't currently exist and Trump then tried to turn it around onto Biden doesn't change that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2020, 07:57:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Still waiting, Gmac. Any chance of you condemning the terrorist plot to kidnap and kill a US state governor?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2020, 08:08:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:45:51 PM


I think he is fully aware of how serious it is, or at least he was in the beginning when he admitted as much to Woodward.

Unfortunately for everyone he sees it as something that happened TO him and his presidency, something that has victimized him, not something that happens which he, in his position, is supposed to manage the country through. Unfortunately for everyone AND him, he couldn't wish it away and use bullshit and distraction to take it out of the news. That might work with the succession of scandals that, at this point, are enough to have ended multiple political careers, but a highly contagious and serious disease is going to keep coming and coming.
Of course he was and is, Republicans are fully aware of the seriousness of Covid, fully aware of the seriousness of the climate crisis, fully aware that Trump is hopelessly compromised by Russia, fully aware that Republican ideology in every area is disastrous for ordinary people, fully aware that the Trump regime is a shameless, fascist lying machine

They just don't give a f**k about any of these things because they're rapacious kleptocrats who want to drive ordinary people into the dirt

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Have you some evidence about Biden's insanity?

As for the Pelosi/Harris stuff could you not have worked Hillary in there somewhere. If you really want to get the Trump supporters going you really need to have that Hillary angle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
nancy has some balls talking about anyone else's mental capacity. Good morning Sunday morning ffs

I know its hard to judge with Trump, but he was on a whole new level of unhinged last week. Given that he was confirmed to be on a cocktail of drugs, including steroids know to cause mania, it was perfectly valid to question his fitness for the job, especially with the utter disregard he showed for his staff, both admin and non-admin, in the WH. His sycophantic doctors are not exactly reassuring either. A lone verbal gaffe by Pelosi is irrelevant.
its not about trump

Yes it is. His mental capacity is very much in doubt and he is seeking re-election.

Do you think he will do even one interview with a properly independent journalist where he has to answer detailed questions and demonstrate his understanding of complex issues of state?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
nancy has some balls talking about anyone else's mental capacity. Good morning Sunday morning ffs

I know its hard to judge with Trump, but he was on a whole new level of unhinged last week. Given that he was confirmed to be on a cocktail of drugs, including steroids know to cause mania, it was perfectly valid to question his fitness for the job, especially with the utter disregard he showed for his staff, both admin and non-admin, in the WH. His sycophantic doctors are not exactly reassuring either. A lone verbal gaffe by Pelosi is irrelevant.
its not about trump

Yes it is. His mental capacity is very much in doubt and he is seeking re-election.

Do you think he will do even one interview with a properly independent journalist where he has to answer detailed questions and demonstrate his understanding of complex issues of state?
what about Biden? he can't even take a question after he appears somewhere , the fact that very few news organizations are asking about joes obvious mental problems just show that they are not objective and just mouthpieces for the Democrat party .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2020, 09:35:34 PM
Still waiting, Gmac
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:35:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
nancy has some balls talking about anyone else's mental capacity. Good morning Sunday morning ffs

I know its hard to judge with Trump, but he was on a whole new level of unhinged last week. Given that he was confirmed to be on a cocktail of drugs, including steroids know to cause mania, it was perfectly valid to question his fitness for the job, especially with the utter disregard he showed for his staff, both admin and non-admin, in the WH. His sycophantic doctors are not exactly reassuring either. A lone verbal gaffe by Pelosi is irrelevant.
its not about trump

Yes it is. His mental capacity is very much in doubt and he is seeking re-election.

Do you think he will do even one interview with a properly independent journalist where he has to answer detailed questions and demonstrate his understanding of complex issues of state?
what about Biden? he can't even take a question after he appears somewhere , the fact that very few news organizations are asking about joes obvious mental problems just show that they are not objective and just mouthpieces for the Democrat party .

Joe was quite happy to face questions in the second debate. Trump wasn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 09:52:34 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:35:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
nancy has some balls talking about anyone else's mental capacity. Good morning Sunday morning ffs

I know its hard to judge with Trump, but he was on a whole new level of unhinged last week. Given that he was confirmed to be on a cocktail of drugs, including steroids know to cause mania, it was perfectly valid to question his fitness for the job, especially with the utter disregard he showed for his staff, both admin and non-admin, in the WH. His sycophantic doctors are not exactly reassuring either. A lone verbal gaffe by Pelosi is irrelevant.
its not about trump

Yes it is. His mental capacity is very much in doubt and he is seeking re-election.

Do you think he will do even one interview with a properly independent journalist where he has to answer detailed questions and demonstrate his understanding of complex issues of state?
what about Biden? he can't even take a question after he appears somewhere , the fact that very few news organizations are asking about joes obvious mental problems just show that they are not objective and just mouthpieces for the Democrat party .

Joe was quite happy to face questions in the second debate. Trump wasn't.
a virtual debate for a virtual candidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:58:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 09:52:34 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:35:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 12, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start
joe Biden is  not the guy so ,Nancy is  working away behind the scenes to be able to dump joe and install Kamala .

Fresh off the presses at the fever swamp! ;D
nancy has some balls talking about anyone else's mental capacity. Good morning Sunday morning ffs

I know its hard to judge with Trump, but he was on a whole new level of unhinged last week. Given that he was confirmed to be on a cocktail of drugs, including steroids know to cause mania, it was perfectly valid to question his fitness for the job, especially with the utter disregard he showed for his staff, both admin and non-admin, in the WH. His sycophantic doctors are not exactly reassuring either. A lone verbal gaffe by Pelosi is irrelevant.
its not about trump

Yes it is. His mental capacity is very much in doubt and he is seeking re-election.

Do you think he will do even one interview with a properly independent journalist where he has to answer detailed questions and demonstrate his understanding of complex issues of state?
what about Biden? he can't even take a question after he appears somewhere , the fact that very few news organizations are asking about joes obvious mental problems just show that they are not objective and just mouthpieces for the Democrat party .

Joe was quite happy to face questions in the second debate. Trump wasn't.
a virtual debate for a virtual candidate.

A real candidate would be prepared to offer real answers to real questions. Biden was willing to stand that test. History will show that Donald Trump was not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2020, 10:27:05 PM
STILL pushing the "Biden is doting" narrative on the right?

It's worked sooo well so far!  ;D

21 more days to make it count!

Why are you so dismissive of a virtual debate Gmac?

Trump could be muted. Biden would have real time to expand and, if he's as frail and feeble-minded as you appear to believe, be exposed, as he would have no hiding place or excuse.

Another way of looking at it could be that most people accept that Joe may be slowing down. Trump has been hollering about it for over a year.  They just might not give a shit. They'd take anything over Trump!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 12, 2020, 11:12:12 PM
The third Kennedy Nixon debate was virtual. Both candidates seemed to cope with the format. But neither of them were pathetic snowflakes like Trump.

Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHjWb5XsAMI

Transcript https://www.debates.org/voter-education/debate-transcripts/october-13-1960-debate-transcript/

"BILL SHADEL, MODERATOR: Good evening. I'm Bill Shadel of ABC News. It's my privilege this evening to preside at this the third in the series of meetings on radio and television of the two major presidential candidates. Now like the last meeting the subjects to be discussed will be suggested by questions from a panel of correspondents. Unlike the first two programs, however, the two candidates will not be sharing the same platform. In New York the Democratic presidential nominee, Senator John F. Kennedy; separated by three thousand miles in a Los Angeles studio, the Republican presidential nominee, Vice President Richard M. Nixon; now joined for tonight's discussion by a network of electronic facilities which permits each candidate to see and hear the other. Good evening, Senator Kennedy.
MR. KENNEDY: Good evening, Mr. Shadel.
MR. SHADEL: And good evening to you, Vice President Nixon.
MR. NIXON: Good evening, Mr. Shadel..."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:32:53 AM
Here's a bar chart of how Covid cases have raced ahead in the US since June, day by day, state by state

I wonder if anybody can notice a pattern as regards the political choices of the states worst affected

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 13, 2020, 09:38:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:32:53 AM
Here's a bar chart of how Covid cases have raced ahead in the US since June, day by day, state by state

I wonder if anybody can notice a pattern as regards the political choices of the states worst affected

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

Saw that myself. Just crazy isn't it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 10:09:46 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 13, 2020, 09:38:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:32:53 AM
Here's a bar chart of how Covid cases have raced ahead in the US since June, day by day, state by state

I wonder if anybody can notice a pattern as regards the political choices of the states worst affected

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

Saw that myself. Just crazy isn't it!

I'd be interested in the wobbler's thoughts on it

Probably something like "you're displaying your confirmation bias again"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 13, 2020, 09:38:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:32:53 AM
Here's a bar chart of how Covid cases have raced ahead in the US since June, day by day, state by state

I wonder if anybody can notice a pattern as regards the political choices of the states worst affected

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

Saw that myself. Just crazy isn't it!
But Trump said it was weak democrats???? And maybe Hillary?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 13, 2020, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 13, 2020, 09:38:02 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:32:53 AM
Here's a bar chart of how Covid cases have raced ahead in the US since June, day by day, state by state

I wonder if anybody can notice a pattern as regards the political choices of the states worst affected

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june
most of these states are open for business which is what the WHO are recommending so they are following the science , also look up deaths per million and talk about red and blue states .
There are elections at every level of government in 3 weeks and politicians who have failed should be voted out across the board .

Saw that myself. Just crazy isn't it!
But Trump said it was weak democrats???? And maybe Hillary?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on October 13, 2020, 07:22:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:32:53 AM
Here's a bar chart of how Covid cases have raced ahead in the US since June, day by day, state by state

I wonder if anybody can notice a pattern as regards the political choices of the states worst affected

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

By that graph's reckoning Republicans look like they'll carry all the swing states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2020, 10:21:37 PM
Let the record show that Gmac has refused to condemn a terrorist plot to kidnap and murder a democratically elected governor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
and talked about taking the Virginia governor too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2020, 02:04:39 AM
Remember the whole Obamagate/unmasking brouhaha back in the spring??

Waiting with baited breath for further revelations??

You're going to be waiting!

Probe's done. No wrong-doing found. No charges. No October surprise coming from that particular conspiracy theory. ;D

I'm just stunned. ;)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/barr-unmasking-review-no-charges/2020/10/13/0f63fd2e-0d67-11eb-8074-0e943a91bf08_story.html%3foutputType=amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/barr-unmasking-review-no-charges/2020/10/13/0f63fd2e-0d67-11eb-8074-0e943a91bf08_story.html%3foutputType=amp)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2020, 03:42:39 AM
How presidential

(https://i.postimg.cc/1tvK3JgY/Screen-Shot-2020-10-13-at-7-39-56-PM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 14, 2020, 11:00:10 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2020, 03:42:39 AM
How presidential
Did somebody say "sneering"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2020, 12:15:13 PM
Any right wingers care to comment?

Trump is accusing Obama and Biden of having killed the people at Benghazi to cover up the murder of members of Navy Seal Team 6 (the ones who got Bin Laden) and that Bin Laden's body double was in fact the person they killed. Or something...

Where's the bottom?

At what point does sticking it to the libs and the NY Times cease to become justification for sticking with this insane, immoral travesty?

This is f**king shameful, embarrassing stuff. And on the same day when another one of his loudly spread and accommodated conspiracy theories is quietly dispatched by Barr.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-touts-falconers-benghazi-blood-sacrifice-conspiracy-theory (https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-touts-falconers-benghazi-blood-sacrifice-conspiracy-theory)
https://twitter.com/UrbanAchievr/status/1316118694385385473/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/UrbanAchievr/status/1316118694385385473/photo/1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 14, 2020, 05:01:28 PM
When conservative right wingers are blatantly and unashamedly with the terrorists in our midst, I shudder to think where the bottom is. These people are pure evil incarnate. They must be defeated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 14, 2020, 05:04:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2020, 02:04:39 AM
Remember the whole Obamagate/unmasking brouhaha back in the spring??

Waiting with baited breath for further revelations??

You're going to be waiting!

Probe's done. No wrong-doing found. No charges. No October surprise coming from that particular conspiracy theory. ;D

I'm just stunned. ;)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/barr-unmasking-review-no-charges/2020/10/13/0f63fd2e-0d67-11eb-8074-0e943a91bf08_story.html%3foutputType=amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/barr-unmasking-review-no-charges/2020/10/13/0f63fd2e-0d67-11eb-8074-0e943a91bf08_story.html%3foutputType=amp)
its all about hunters emails and videos right now .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2020, 05:23:30 PM
But his emails!!!!


QuoteFirst the information comes from a laptop that was allegedly "dropped off at a repair shop in Biden's home state of Delaware" and never picked up. The "shop owner," who is not identified, "couldn't positively identify the customer as Hunter Biden"

The "shop owner" thinks it was Hunter Biden because of a Beau Biden sticker on the laptop. This makes no sense. You drop off an expensive Mac laptop at a repair shop and don't leave your name or contact information?

But then, after claiming the shop owner couldn't identify the customer, the piece includes a receipt that was issued to "Hunter Biden" and includes an email and phone #. So why would the shop owner produce a receipt for Hunter Biden if he didn't know the ID of the customer?

The piece claims the shop owner then alerted the FBI to the existence of the laptop and it was later subpoenaed by a grand jury.  But the grand jury subpoena shown does not connect the laptop to Hunter Biden.

Then things get very weird. The shop owner says, before turning over the computer to the feds, they made a copy of the contents of the computer and gave them to Rudy Giuliani's lawyer. Mmmmhmmmm

The New York Post allegedly learned about this copy of the laptop through Steven Bannon. Both Giuliani and Bannon are regular sources of disinformation.

But this is the important point. Pretending, for a moment, that everything in the story is true (very doubtful) it is totally inconsequential. Supposedly one "email" recovered on the laptop "proves" that Hunter once introduced a Bursima exec to his father.

This is a scandal? There is no word on the length of the meeting or what was discussed. The New York Post says its significant because Biden then called for the ouster of the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Bursima. FALSE. The prosecutor was not investigating Bursima

The prosecutor was corrupt, which is why the entire international community was calling for his ouster. Replacing the corrupt prosecutor brought more scrutiny on Bursima, not less.

Allegedly, the laptop Hunter "forgot" to pick up also contains a 12 minute video of him smoking crack and having sex with an unidentified woman.

Nevertheless, this incredibly sketchy, totally unverified, and ultimately irrelevant story is being promoted by mainstream journalists who don't work for the New York Post. Don't be fooled by that.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 14, 2020, 05:36:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2020, 05:04:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2020, 02:04:39 AM
Remember the whole Obamagate/unmasking brouhaha back in the spring??

Waiting with baited breath for further revelations??

You're going to be waiting!

Probe's done. No wrong-doing found. No charges. No October surprise coming from that particular conspiracy theory. ;D

I'm just stunned. ;)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/barr-unmasking-review-no-charges/2020/10/13/0f63fd2e-0d67-11eb-8074-0e943a91bf08_story.html%3foutputType=amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/barr-unmasking-review-no-charges/2020/10/13/0f63fd2e-0d67-11eb-8074-0e943a91bf08_story.html%3foutputType=amp)
its all about hunters emails and videos right now .

Who will it be about once those are shown to be yet more right wing lies and bullshit?

Any chance of ANYTHING concrete and substantial, policy-wise, from the GOP less than three weeks before the election?

Is there any limit to the gullibility?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 14, 2020, 06:06:42 PM
QuoteA reminder: The president was impeached for his attempts to fabricate lies about Joe Biden and Ukraine.

;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 14, 2020, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2020, 05:36:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2020, 05:04:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 14, 2020, 02:04:39 AM
Remember the whole Obamagate/unmasking brouhaha back in the spring??

Waiting with baited breath for further revelations??

You're going to be waiting!

Probe's done. No wrong-doing found. No charges. No October surprise coming from that particular conspiracy theory. ;D

I'm just stunned. ;)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/barr-unmasking-review-no-charges/2020/10/13/0f63fd2e-0d67-11eb-8074-0e943a91bf08_story.html%3foutputType=amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/barr-unmasking-review-no-charges/2020/10/13/0f63fd2e-0d67-11eb-8074-0e943a91bf08_story.html%3foutputType=amp)
its all about hunters emails and videos right now .

Who will it be about once those are shown to be yet more right wing lies and bullshit?

Any chance of ANYTHING concrete and substantial, policy-wise, from the GOP less than three weeks before the election?

Is there any limit to the gullibility?
in 3 weeks  the nightmare might be over for you j70 . I have a feeling trump is not dead yet though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 14, 2020, 07:21:12 PM
With Biden PR like this, how can Trump not lose?(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/7d5ba841-3e88-4191-b975-c81abec75cf2.be9032a7576858bbdfa1abb5df2e26c7.jpeg?odnWidth=undefined&odnHeight=undefined&odnBg=ffffff)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 14, 2020, 07:33:53 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 14, 2020, 07:21:12 PM
With Biden PR like this, how can Trump not lose?(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/7d5ba841-3e88-4191-b975-c81abec75cf2.be9032a7576858bbdfa1abb5df2e26c7.jpeg?odnWidth=undefined&odnHeight=undefined&odnBg=ffffff)
shouldn't that read hidin with Biden 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 14, 2020, 10:07:09 PM
But it was the President who was too afraid to debate Biden after the last disaster!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 14, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 14, 2020, 10:07:09 PM
But it was the President who was too afraid to debate Biden after the last disaster!!
he said no to a virtual debate .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:02:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 14, 2020, 10:07:09 PM
But it was the President who was too afraid to debate Biden after the last disaster!!
he said no to a virtual debate .

Because he is afraid to discuss the issues in setting where he can't rant and rave and shout over people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:02:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 14, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 14, 2020, 10:07:09 PM
But it was the President who was too afraid to debate Biden after the last disaster!!
he said no to a virtual debate .
He still said "no" to a debate.  The man couldn't spell Codiv, never mind debeat it, never mind debiden if he ever had id. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 12:20:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Are you a moron because you can't help but be anything else, or was it a conscious decision on your part to be a moron?

Is being a moron your orientation or preference?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:26:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
please be honest j70 had you a problem with it before yesterday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 12:37:55 AM
Perhaps Judge Coney Barrett has considered the amount of gay Republicans and prominent religious right-wingers in America who pretend to be straight for appearance purposes, and concluded that sexuality is a choice based on that, as in, the denial of it





,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
it was perfectly fine to say sexual preference yesterday morning by afternoon it's a scandal because the Democrats can't lay a glove on her and need to create fake outrage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2020, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
it was perfectly fine to say sexual preference yesterday morning by afternoon it's a scandal because the Democrats can't lay a glove on her and need to create fake outrage.

Preference implies some degree of choice in the matter.

Is your sexual orientation a choice?

As for not laying a glove, they elicited her preposterous answer on preconditions and Obamacare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 02:33:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
it was perfectly fine to say sexual preference yesterday morning by afternoon it's a scandal because the Democrats can't lay a glove on her and need to create fake outrage.

Preference implies some degree of choice in the matter.

Is your sexual orientation a choice?

As for not laying a glove, they elicited her preposterous answer on preconditions and Obamacare.
orientation : heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual isn't that putting everyone in a box maybe people would  like to change it up a bit at different times . You obviously don't believe in gender fluidity so neither do I .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 15, 2020, 06:10:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 02:33:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
it was perfectly fine to say sexual preference yesterday morning by afternoon it's a scandal because the Democrats can't lay a glove on her and need to create fake outrage.

Preference implies some degree of choice in the matter.

Is your sexual orientation a choice?

As for not laying a glove, they elicited her preposterous answer on preconditions and Obamacare.
orientation : heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual isn't that putting everyone in a box maybe people would  like to change it up a bit at different times . You obviously don't believe in gender fluidity so neither do I .

Lads stop chasing this troll down his contrived rabbit holes. He never answers a question. Keeps moving the debate with non sequiturs. Every time his conspiracy theory BS is publicly debunked he just moves on to the next one. Don't give him any more oxygen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 02:33:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
it was perfectly fine to say sexual preference yesterday morning by afternoon it's a scandal because the Democrats can't lay a glove on her and need to create fake outrage.

Preference implies some degree of choice in the matter.

Is your sexual orientation a choice?

As for not laying a glove, they elicited her preposterous answer on preconditions and Obamacare.
orientation : heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual isn't that putting everyone in a box maybe people would  like to change it up a bit at different times . You obviously don't believe in gender fluidity so neither do I .

The question is whether it's a choice or not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 03:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 02:33:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
it was perfectly fine to say sexual preference yesterday morning by afternoon it's a scandal because the Democrats can't lay a glove on her and need to create fake outrage.

Preference implies some degree of choice in the matter.

Is your sexual orientation a choice?

As for not laying a glove, they elicited her preposterous answer on preconditions and Obamacare.
orientation : heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual isn't that putting everyone in a box maybe people would  like to change it up a bit at different times . You obviously don't believe in gender fluidity so neither do I .

The question is whether it's a choice or not.
choice or preference not much of a difference I'm ok with either but I can use choice, any thoughts on twitter and Facebook showing their hand that they are all in with Biden by suspending accounts and suppressing negative stories about joe ?  Also Kamala has a covid outbreak in her campaign group but I won't go on a vile outburst like you and everyone one else here did about trump because it's a very contagious virus and things happen in the course of life despite precautions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 15, 2020, 03:46:23 PM
Because they aren't hiding anything unlike that orange clown

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkX9001WAAEFt6U?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkX92CXXYAEgvqn?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2020, 03:56:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 03:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 02:33:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
it was perfectly fine to say sexual preference yesterday morning by afternoon it's a scandal because the Democrats can't lay a glove on her and need to create fake outrage.

Preference implies some degree of choice in the matter.

Is your sexual orientation a choice?

As for not laying a glove, they elicited her preposterous answer on preconditions and Obamacare.
orientation : heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual isn't that putting everyone in a box maybe people would  like to change it up a bit at different times . You obviously don't believe in gender fluidity so neither do I .

The question is whether it's a choice or not.
choice or preference not much of a difference I'm ok with either but I can use choice, any thoughts on twitter and Facebook showing their hand that they are all in with Biden by suspending accounts and suppressing negative stories about joe ?  Also Kamala has a covid outbreak in her campaign group but I won't go on a vile outburst like you and everyone one else here did about trump because it's a very contagious virus and things happen in the course of life despite precautions.

1. They're not suppressing "stories about Joe", with the implication that its any and all negative press. They're suppressing specific, suspect, poorly supported propaganda, equivalent to a ton of stuff which has already been exposed as nonsense. If it turns out to be substantial and not nonsense being fed to the gullible Giuliani, then I'm sure they'll allow it.

2. I didn't go on any vile outburst about Trump getting COVID. That can obviously happen to anyone. The issue is that Trump WASN'T taken precautions, either for himself or his staff or his support. The issue is that a couple of days earlier, the President of the United States was mocking his opponent for wearing a mask and following the recommended precautions. The issue is that he has repeatedly tried to downplay the seriousness of the outbreak and tried to undermine and censor the advice given by the responsible doctors and public health officials in the WH and the agencies. I stated that based on all that, I have zero sympathy for him and his sycophants who caught it. I absolutely stand by that.

3. Your sexual orientation is a choice? You're seriously making that statement? You chose whether you'd find men OR women attractive? Or is it only gay people who "choose"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 04:18:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 03:56:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 03:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 02:33:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
it was perfectly fine to say sexual preference yesterday morning by afternoon it's a scandal because the Democrats can't lay a glove on her and need to create fake outrage.

Preference implies some degree of choice in the matter.

Is your sexual orientation a choice?

As for not laying a glove, they elicited her preposterous answer on preconditions and Obamacare.
orientation : heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual isn't that putting everyone in a box maybe people would  like to change it up a bit at different times . You obviously don't believe in gender fluidity so neither do I .

The question is whether it's a choice or not.
choice or preference not much of a difference I'm ok with either but I can use choice, any thoughts on twitter and Facebook showing their hand that they are all in with Biden by suspending accounts and suppressing negative stories about joe ?  Also Kamala has a covid outbreak in her campaign group but I won't go on a vile outburst like you and everyone one else here did about trump because it's a very contagious virus and things happen in the course of life despite precautions.

1. They're not suppressing "stories about Joe", with the implication that its any and all negative press. They're suppressing specific, suspect, poorly supported propaganda, equivalent to a ton of stuff which has already been exposed as nonsense. If it turns out to be substantial and not nonsense being fed to the gullible Giuliani, then I'm sure they'll allow it.

2. I didn't go on any vile outburst about Trump getting COVID. That can obviously happen to anyone. The issue is that Trump WASN'T taken precautions, either for himself or his staff or his support. The issue is that a couple of days earlier, the President of the United States was mocking his opponent for wearing a mask and following the recommended precautions. The issue is that he has repeatedly tried to downplay the seriousness of the outbreak and tried to undermine and censor the advice given by the responsible doctors and public health officials in the WH and the agencies. I stated that based on all that, I have zero sympathy for him and his sycophants who caught it. I absolutely stand by that.

3. Your sexual orientation is a choice? You're seriously making that statement? You chose whether you'd find men OR women attractive? Or is it only gay people who "choose"?
i said use either word, you are born either straight or gay .
Do you think there was ever a false story about trump on twitter and did they suppress it ? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2020, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 04:18:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 03:56:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 03:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 02:33:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 15, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

Please do explain how it is lunacy.
Exactly, how is it lunacy?
the first red alert would be it came out of Mazie from Hawaii's mouth .
So, explain.
it was perfectly fine to say sexual preference yesterday morning by afternoon it's a scandal because the Democrats can't lay a glove on her and need to create fake outrage.

Preference implies some degree of choice in the matter.

Is your sexual orientation a choice?

As for not laying a glove, they elicited her preposterous answer on preconditions and Obamacare.
orientation : heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual isn't that putting everyone in a box maybe people would  like to change it up a bit at different times . You obviously don't believe in gender fluidity so neither do I .

The question is whether it's a choice or not.
choice or preference not much of a difference I'm ok with either but I can use choice, any thoughts on twitter and Facebook showing their hand that they are all in with Biden by suspending accounts and suppressing negative stories about joe ?  Also Kamala has a covid outbreak in her campaign group but I won't go on a vile outburst like you and everyone one else here did about trump because it's a very contagious virus and things happen in the course of life despite precautions.

1. They're not suppressing "stories about Joe", with the implication that its any and all negative press. They're suppressing specific, suspect, poorly supported propaganda, equivalent to a ton of stuff which has already been exposed as nonsense. If it turns out to be substantial and not nonsense being fed to the gullible Giuliani, then I'm sure they'll allow it.

2. I didn't go on any vile outburst about Trump getting COVID. That can obviously happen to anyone. The issue is that Trump WASN'T taken precautions, either for himself or his staff or his support. The issue is that a couple of days earlier, the President of the United States was mocking his opponent for wearing a mask and following the recommended precautions. The issue is that he has repeatedly tried to downplay the seriousness of the outbreak and tried to undermine and censor the advice given by the responsible doctors and public health officials in the WH and the agencies. I stated that based on all that, I have zero sympathy for him and his sycophants who caught it. I absolutely stand by that.

3. Your sexual orientation is a choice? You're seriously making that statement? You chose whether you'd find men OR women attractive? Or is it only gay people who "choose"?
i said use either word, you are born either straight or gay .
Do you think there was ever a false story about trump on twitter and did they suppress it ?

1. You said choice/preference are interchangeable. Orientation is not chosen. That's the issue with what she said.

2. There have probably been false stories about everyone on Twitter and Facebook. The issue is that both have recently, as in the past few weeks, finally started to take steps to combat it. If the Biden camp put out a story like Trump just did, one would expect them to do likewise, whereas  a couple of months ago it was a free for all, all around. IF (and pardon me if I don't my breath) the whole Hunter Biden rabbit hole actually leads somewhere real and serious, Twitter and FB will allow the info to be disseminated through their media. In the meantime, I'm sure its Hunter Biden non-stop on Fox and talk radio. Not much mention of Obamagate and unmasking I would suspect though.

And don't forget Trump tweeted the ludicrous QAnon story about Obame/Biden killing the four people at Benghazi to cover up the murder of Seal Team 6 and Bin LAden's body double. That was TWO days ago!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: smelmoth on October 15, 2020, 05:45:16 PM
Is there an actual ignore function on this board?

I think everyone should ignore Gmac for somewhere between 30 days and 30 millennia. I know his stuff is disgusting but time to starve the oxygen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on October 15, 2020, 05:45:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
The lefts lunacy is on show at the hearings with the bullshit about sexual preference or sexual orientation, this is the lunacy biden supporters want to unleash on the country .

North of Ireland vs Northern Ireland. No difference right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 15, 2020, 05:50:10 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on October 15, 2020, 05:45:16 PM
Is there an actual ignore function on this board?

I think everyone should ignore Gmac for somewhere between 30 days and 30 millennia. I know his stuff is disgusting but time to starve the oxygen
whats disgusting? I couldn't give a f?ck what you do .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2020, 06:02:18 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on October 15, 2020, 05:45:16 PM
Is there an actual ignore function on this board?

I think everyone should ignore Gmac for somewhere between 30 days and 30 millennia. I know his stuff is disgusting but time to starve the oxygen

Profile > Modify profile > Buddies/ignore list > Edit ignore list > Type Gmac into Member > Add

I just added him. No point in trying to reason with trolls like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2020, 06:05:15 PM
Georgia's now leaning blue. Trump has an uphill task in Georgia, Ohio, North Carolina, Arizona and Florida, all of which are leaning blue. Joe can still afford to lose all of them. As long as he wins Pennsylvania, Nevada and Wisconsin he'll be fine, and he has strong leads in all of them, plus a decent lead in Florida.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 06:16:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2020, 06:05:15 PM
Georgia's now leaning blue. Trump has an uphill task in Georgia, Ohio, North Carolina, Arizona and Florida, all of which are leaning blue. Joe can still afford to lose all of them. As long as he wins Pennsylvania, Nevada and Wisconsin he'll be fine, and he has strong leads in all of them, plus a decent lead in Florida.
Still doesn't take voter suppression, vote falsification and the courts into account

Some voters in Democratic areas of Georgia had to wait nearly ten hours to cast a vote

Non-white voters are seven times more likely to have to wait over an hour to vote than white voters

Turnout needs to be massive and there can be zero complacency among Democratic voters

Need to really step on Trump's throat now and force this home

Make the margin so large that even the Republicans can't fix it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 15, 2020, 06:18:15 PM
Just bear in mind Trump eked it out last time with a total surplus of 70K votes in PA, WI, and MI. Hillary was up 5-6 points in WI polls on election day, and 4 in MI.

People have to get out and vote. They did in the mid-terms and should be well motivated this time out, so hopefully there'll be no surprises.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 08:32:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 06:18:15 PM
Just bear in mind Trump eked it out last time with a total surplus of 70K votes in PA, WI, and MI. Hillary was up 5-6 points in WI polls on election day, and 4 in MI.

People have to get out and vote. They did in the mid-terms and should be well motivated this time out, so hopefully there'll be no surprises.
And they were likely hacked to change the results
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2020, 09:25:03 PM
Biden's current leads in the swing states:

PA 6.3%
WI 6.9%
NV 7%
MN 7.9%

He needs to win all of them. I hope the voters keep their foot on the gas pedal all the way to the end. None of this complacent sh1t like last time.

I don't like the look of Wisconsin. That's a hotbed of all manner of conservative voter suppression and power-grabbing shenanigans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 01:19:31 AM
Trump refusing to denounce QAnon

He says "I know nothing about them" and then in the next sentence says "they're strongly against paedophilia"

Which begs the question as to why they are a cult which worships a credibly alleged paedophile, Trump

Seems like they're actually fairly pro-paedophilia
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on October 16, 2020, 01:37:38 AM
Cue a Trump tirade about Savanna Gunthrie on Twitter in about 70 minutes for asking reasonable questions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 02:26:17 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 16, 2020, 01:37:38 AM
Cue a Trump tirade about Savanna Gunthrie on Twitter in about 70 minutes for asking reasonable questions.
Savannah Guthrie has the same surname as Woody Guthrie who hated fascists, racists and slumlords like Trump's own father

Therefore she's hopelessly biased

I suppose that Old Man Trump knows just how much racial hate
He stirred up in that bloodpot of human hearts
When he drawed that color line
Here at his Beach Haven family project

Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump's Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!

I'm calling out my welcome to you and your man both
Welcoming you here to Beach Haven
To love in any way you please and to have some kind of a decent place
To have your kids raised up in.
   
Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump's Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!

That was written 66 years ago


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 16, 2020, 03:10:29 AM
What the f**k? Hahahaha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 03:33:51 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 16, 2020, 01:37:38 AM
Cue a Trump tirade about Savanna Gunthrie on Twitter in about 70 minutes for asking reasonable questions.
meanwhile joe gets former democratic presidential campaign manager lobbing him softballs .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 16, 2020, 03:59:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 03:33:51 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 16, 2020, 01:37:38 AM
Cue a Trump tirade about Savanna Gunthrie on Twitter in about 70 minutes for asking reasonable questions.
meanwhile joe gets former democratic presidential campaign manager lobbing him softballs .

Was it not questions from a town hall audience that Biden was answering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 16, 2020, 04:07:18 AM
Just watching the News Hour. They're talking about media coverage of the 2016 election. According to independent research Trump got about $2 billion's worth of free coverage in the media. He got twice as much coverage as Clinton, and her use of a private email server got more coverage than any other story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 04:08:30 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 16, 2020, 03:59:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 03:33:51 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 16, 2020, 01:37:38 AM
Cue a Trump tirade about Savanna Gunthrie on Twitter in about 70 minutes for asking reasonable questions.
meanwhile joe gets former democratic presidential campaign manager lobbing him softballs .

Was it not questions from a town hall audience that Biden was answering.
softball questions and no interruptions unlike trump who has to debate moderator .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 16, 2020, 04:32:30 AM
That's a first.. you answered a question...... But as usual you attempted to spin both engagements with the Moderators. One moderator had to contend with constant and persistent lying and deflecting about Qanon; the other with a debate on policy with the normal political BS. Who are you kidding.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 16, 2020, 06:58:46 AM
Early Youtube hit counts for the two town halls:

Biden 500,000
Trump 153,000

Gonna be cool to see the actual ratings when they come out. It'll hit Trump where it hurts the most if more people tuned into Biden, since he thinks everything is all a TV show and the ratings are what give him an ego boost.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 16, 2020, 07:19:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 15, 2020, 06:18:15 PM
Just bear in mind Trump eked it out last time with a total surplus of 70K votes in PA, WI, and MI. Hillary was up 5-6 points in WI polls on election day, and 4 in MI.

People have to get out and vote. They did in the mid-terms and should be well motivated this time out, so hopefully there'll be no surprises.
Trump was banking on a strong economy. Instad there was a pandemic which he mismanaged.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 03:31:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 16, 2020, 04:32:30 AM
That's a first.. you answered a question...... But as usual you attempted to spin both engagements with the Moderators. One moderator had to contend with constant and persistent lying and deflecting about Qanon; the other with a debate on policy with the normal political BS. Who are you kidding.
was joe asked about the ny post story ?
Half goes to pops .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2020, 03:42:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 03:31:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 16, 2020, 04:32:30 AM
That's a first.. you answered a question...... But as usual you attempted to spin both engagements with the Moderators. One moderator had to contend with constant and persistent lying and deflecting about Qanon; the other with a debate on policy with the normal political BS. Who are you kidding.
was joe asked about the ny post story ?
Half goes to pops .

Maybe they should have asked Joe if he killed Seal Team 6 and the four people at Benghazi.

The right have been pushing THAT this week too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 04:21:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2020, 03:42:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 03:31:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 16, 2020, 04:32:30 AM
That's a first.. you answered a question...... But as usual you attempted to spin both engagements with the Moderators. One moderator had to contend with constant and persistent lying and deflecting about Qanon; the other with a debate on policy with the normal political BS. Who are you kidding.
was joe asked about the ny post story ?
Half goes to pops .

Maybe they should have asked Joe if he killed Seal Team 6 and the four people at Benghazi.

The right have been pushing THAT this week too.
have not seen anything about that story sounds ridiculous but there is no doubt joe has made tens of millions of dollars from his political connections and using his son as an asset internationally and the press and social media are suppressing it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2020, 03:42:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 03:31:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 16, 2020, 04:32:30 AM
That's a first.. you answered a question...... But as usual you attempted to spin both engagements with the Moderators. One moderator had to contend with constant and persistent lying and deflecting about Qanon; the other with a debate on policy with the normal political BS. Who are you kidding.
was joe asked about the ny post story ?
Half goes to pops .

Maybe they should have asked Joe if he killed Seal Team 6 and the four people at Benghazi.

The right have been pushing THAT this week too.
They should have asked him if he was behind 9/11
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 16, 2020, 04:53:51 PM
Pizzagate!

Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi!

9/11 was an inside job!

Obamagate!

NY Post! Hunter Biden! Bidengate! Huntergate! Ukrainegate! Something-or-other-gate!

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c4/93/f4/c493f473c4a46f31e22c70c3d979a1ea.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2020, 05:13:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 04:21:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2020, 03:42:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 03:31:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 16, 2020, 04:32:30 AM
That's a first.. you answered a question...... But as usual you attempted to spin both engagements with the Moderators. One moderator had to contend with constant and persistent lying and deflecting about Qanon; the other with a debate on policy with the normal political BS. Who are you kidding.
was joe asked about the ny post story ?
Half goes to pops .

Maybe they should have asked Joe if he killed Seal Team 6 and the four people at Benghazi.

The right have been pushing THAT this week too.
have not seen anything about that story sounds ridiculous but there is no doubt joe has made tens of millions of dollars from his political connections and using his son as an asset internationally and the press and social media are suppressing it .

There's "no doubt"?

How about Rudi getting played by the Russians? The administration was already warned about it last year. That shouldn't be a factor in how this story is treated? Its the same characters.

Where is the hype about Obamagate and the supposed unmasking being shown to be baseless hype?

What about Trump and his family and connections cleaning up financially from his term and him using his powers to commute and pardon his cronies in return for their stonewalling? Are you bothered about that?

BTW, the Seal Team 6 story is what Savannah Guthrie was talking about when questioning Trump about spreading rumours and conspiracy theories and telling him he's not "someone's crazy uncle".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:26:54 PM
Giuliani's daughter was on Rachel Maddow last night imploring people to vote for Biden, lolzers

Even the daughters of these ghouls can see through the bullshit being peddled by their parents, well, except the ghoulish Ivanka Trump I guess, but she's a criminal too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 06:05:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:26:54 PM
Giuliani's daughter was on Rachel Maddow last night imploring people to vote for Biden, lolzers

Even the daughters of these ghouls can see through the bullshit being peddled by their parents, well, except the ghoulish Ivanka Trump I guess, but she's a criminal too
i hear Kelly Anne's daughter will be on tonight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2020, 06:11:16 PM
Another fine tweet by Trump today:

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1317076994564198400/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1317076994564198400/photo/1)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkcyixQWAAI8IGk?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 16, 2020, 06:13:12 PM
Babylon Bee:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkcyixTX0AAiCmr?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on October 17, 2020, 10:45:26 PM
Biden is correct to ignore these fake rumours about him and Hunter which were launched by Guiliani purposely at this time. He's been sitting on this story to launch at the last minute to try affect the Biden voters and independents without one grain of truth to the story. It's also serving as a distraction to take the heat off Coney Barrett.

Didn't need twitter and facebook getting involved to prevent the spread of fake news, should have let this one die out itself and guarantee a Biden victory.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:58:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 06:05:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:26:54 PM
Giuliani's daughter was on Rachel Maddow last night imploring people to vote for Biden, lolzers

Even the daughters of these ghouls can see through the bullshit being peddled by their parents, well, except the ghoulish Ivanka Trump I guess, but she's a criminal too
i hear Kelly Anne's daughter will be on tonight.
It's a wonder the now 15 year old Claudia Conway didn't end up in the clutches of a certain Mr. Epstein or indeed his good friend Mr. Trump, who is the alleged rapist with Epstein of a 13 year old girl

She certainly fits the profile of what such ghouls like

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:01:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2020, 05:13:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 04:21:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2020, 03:42:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 16, 2020, 03:31:21 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 16, 2020, 04:32:30 AM
That's a first.. you answered a question...... But as usual you attempted to spin both engagements with the Moderators. One moderator had to contend with constant and persistent lying and deflecting about Qanon; the other with a debate on policy with the normal political BS. Who are you kidding.
was joe asked about the ny post story ?
Half goes to pops .

Maybe they should have asked Joe if he killed Seal Team 6 and the four people at Benghazi.

The right have been pushing THAT this week too.
have not seen anything about that story sounds ridiculous but there is no doubt joe has made tens of millions of dollars from his political connections and using his son as an asset internationally and the press and social media are suppressing it .

There's "no doubt"?

How about Rudi getting played by the Russians? The administration was already warned about it last year. That shouldn't be a factor in how this story is treated? Its the same characters.

Where is the hype about Obamagate and the supposed unmasking being shown to be baseless hype?

What about Trump and his family and connections cleaning up financially from his term and him using his powers to commute and pardon his cronies in return for their stonewalling? Are you bothered about that?

BTW, the Seal Team 6 story is what Savannah Guthrie was talking about when questioning Trump about spreading rumours and conspiracy theories and telling him he's not "someone's crazy uncle".
Giuliani is not being played by the Russians

He's an active and willing participant in conspiracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 01:10:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around
In other news, water is wet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 01:53:47 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.
It's an appalling reflection on you that your reflex response is so flippant and heartless

Whatever sort of reaction it is, it's certainly not that of a human who possesses qualities such as basic empathy

And sadly that seems to be the case with Trump supporters as a rule

Sadism is the point

As it was in the 1930s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 02:30:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 01:53:47 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.
It's an appalling reflection on you that your reflex response is so flippant and heartless

Whatever sort of reaction it is, it's certainly not that of a human who possesses qualities such as basic empathy

And sadly that seems to be the case with Trump supporters as a rule

Sadism is the point

As it was in the 1930s


I read your reply before I saw your username, still guessed it was you sid.

You are a laugh.

Let's send babies into prison with their fathers, right?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2020, 04:14:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.

That's a contemptible statement and you should be throughly ashamed of yourself. Shame on you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2020, 04:18:17 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/122093086_145565790583707_3387478735656616939_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=-Ggxr9ajRlgAX8JkIbH&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=c803f683bfbda063387646b4ea5b2c8d&oe=5FB0E419)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2020, 07:34:18 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.

Wow.

Mask slipping?

And it exactly involved ripping/tearing... however you want to describe the act of separating terrified toddlers and babies from their desperate parents arms and shipping them across the country, for the extreme crime of illegally crossing the border or even seeking asylum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 09:30:24 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 02:30:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 01:53:47 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.
It's an appalling reflection on you that your reflex response is so flippant and heartless

Whatever sort of reaction it is, it's certainly not that of a human who possesses qualities such as basic empathy

And sadly that seems to be the case with Trump supporters as a rule

Sadism is the point

As it was in the 1930s


I read your reply before I saw your username, still guessed it was you sid.

You are a laugh.

Let's send babies into prison with their fathers, right?
You're not well, mate, and I genuinely mean that

Funnily enough you do come across as somebody who was refused love or empathy as a child

Just like Trump was




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2020, 04:14:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.

That's a contemptible statement and you should be throughly ashamed of yourself. Shame on you.

Aye tarra altogether.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 18, 2020, 11:14:55 AM
Not interested in trawling through all this but
did "Gmac" ever condemn the right wing extremist Terrorists who were involved in the attempted putsch in Michigan (or was it Wisconsin? )??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 18, 2020, 05:14:05 PM
Now .. what do you think? I will give you a guess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 18, 2020, 07:36:59 PM
As I expected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 18, 2020, 08:40:19 PM
On another topic.. your lads showed our lads how to defend yesterday. Would you consider loaning us your 1 to 4 for next weekend. Promise we will give them back on the way home. Anyway good luck in Division 1 next year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2020, 09:01:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 07:34:18 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.

Wow.

Mask slipping?

And it exactly involved ripping/tearing... however you want to describe the act of separating terrified toddlers and babies from their desperate parents arms and shipping them across the country, for the extreme crime of illegally crossing the border or even seeking asylum.

Not even a felony. Seeking asylum is perfectly legal. Entering illegally or going out of status is a misdemeanor, on a par with jaywalking or speeding. I don't see kids being kidnapped and trafficked when their parents commit those offenses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 09:16:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2020, 09:01:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 07:34:18 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.

Wow.

Mask slipping?

And it exactly involved ripping/tearing... however you want to describe the act of separating terrified toddlers and babies from their desperate parents arms and shipping them across the country, for the extreme crime of illegally crossing the border or even seeking asylum.

Not even a felony. Seeking asylum is perfectly legal. Entering illegally or going out of status is a misdemeanor, on a par with jaywalking or speeding. I don't see kids being kidnapped and trafficked when their parents commit those offenses.

Take it up with the president who opened the detention centres, (hint: it wasn't Trump)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 18, 2020, 09:47:32 PM
Articles are abound -  5 ways Trump could still win steal the election, the 5th was "A Biden Fumble".
The general USA mentality is just so fcked up beyond repair, while Trump has come out publicly  praising the USA versions of  nazi Brown Shirts, virtually encourage  assassination of politicians he disapproves of and  overt sabotage of the electoral process mixed in with envious  fascination with every despot around the world. Yet the USA media are awaiting a Biden fart in order to go full on 'Biden's not up to it'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 18, 2020, 10:32:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 09:16:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2020, 09:01:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 07:34:18 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.

Wow.

Mask slipping?

And it exactly involved ripping/tearing... however you want to describe the act of separating terrified toddlers and babies from their desperate parents arms and shipping them across the country, for the extreme crime of illegally crossing the border or even seeking asylum.

Not even a felony. Seeking asylum is perfectly legal. Entering illegally or going out of status is a misdemeanor, on a par with jaywalking or speeding. I don't see kids being kidnapped and trafficked when their parents commit those offenses.

Take it up with the president who opened the detention centres, (hint: it wasn't Trump)

There was no family separation policy under Obama. Trump and Jeff Sessions specifically introduced it to try to scare both illegal border crossers and asylum seekers.

It's easy when you see people like that as subhuman.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 10:40:48 PM
86 45
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 18, 2020, 10:53:19 PM
Fun fact according to the doj  94% of foreign nationals in federal prison are illegal aliens.
I'm sure some are human traffickers .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 12:12:38 AM
Bookies only have Biden 5/8 favourite, they are shit odds, Trump is worth a punt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 12:12:38 AM
Bookies only have Biden 5/8 favourite, they are shit odds, Trump is worth a punt
Trump was on the verge of 2/1 odds this time last week. Has come in significantly to about 5/4

There's quite a few states that could go either way, so Trump is far from out of this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2020, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 12:12:38 AM
Bookies only have Biden 5/8 favourite, they are shit odds, Trump is worth a punt
Trump was on the verge of 2/1 odds this time last week. Has come in significantly to about 5/4

There's quite a few states that could go either way, so Trump is far from out of this.

Of course not. Especially if it comes down to one or two very tight states and you end up with a Florida 2000 situation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 03:39:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 12:12:38 AM
Bookies only have Biden 5/8 favourite, they are shit odds, Trump is worth a punt
Trump was on the verge of 2/1 odds this time last week. Has come in significantly to about 5/4

There's quite a few states that could go either way, so Trump is far from out of this.

Of course not. Especially if it comes down to one or two very tight states and you end up with a Florida 2000 situation.
joe running back to the basement until Thursday , media still not asking about the corruption?
Sad!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2020, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 03:39:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 12:12:38 AM
Bookies only have Biden 5/8 favourite, they are shit odds, Trump is worth a punt
Trump was on the verge of 2/1 odds this time last week. Has come in significantly to about 5/4

There's quite a few states that could go either way, so Trump is far from out of this.

Of course not. Especially if it comes down to one or two very tight states and you end up with a Florida 2000 situation.
joe running back to the basement until Thursday , media still not asking about the corruption?
Sad!!

Its probably getting the same attention as the cashing in of the Trump family on Trump's presidency.

On Biden specifically, I'm sure questions will be asked if and when something credible comes up. The fact that Republican senators are on the record in 2016 advocating for the removal of Victor Shokin, and that the intelligence agencies advised the WH that Giuliani was probably being played by the Russians, doesn't exactly help the case that anything other than the most hopeful and desperate throwing of shit at the wall is taking place. That, and the utter failure of some of the other "scandals" or "greatest criminal conspiracies in US history" to stand up to even the most favourable and biased scrutiny by one of the most sycophantic and servile AGs ever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 03:39:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 12:12:38 AM
Bookies only have Biden 5/8 favourite, they are shit odds, Trump is worth a punt
Trump was on the verge of 2/1 odds this time last week. Has come in significantly to about 5/4

There's quite a few states that could go either way, so Trump is far from out of this.

Of course not. Especially if it comes down to one or two very tight states and you end up with a Florida 2000 situation.
joe running back to the basement until Thursday , media still not asking about the corruption?
Sad!!

Its probably getting the same attention as the cashing in of the Trump family on Trump's presidency.

On Biden specifically, I'm sure questions will be asked if and when something credible comes up. The fact that Republican senators are on the record in 2016 advocating for the removal of Victor Shokin, and that the intelligence agencies advised the WH that Giuliani was probably being played by the Russians, doesn't exactly help the case that anything other than the most hopeful and desperate throwing of shit at the wall is taking place. That, and the utter failure of some of the other "scandals" or "greatest criminal conspiracies in US history" to stand up to even the most favourable and biased scrutiny by one of the most sycophantic and servile AGs ever.
played by the Russians? Have you heard of the Steele dossier
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2020, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 03:39:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 12:12:38 AM
Bookies only have Biden 5/8 favourite, they are shit odds, Trump is worth a punt
Trump was on the verge of 2/1 odds this time last week. Has come in significantly to about 5/4

There's quite a few states that could go either way, so Trump is far from out of this.

Of course not. Especially if it comes down to one or two very tight states and you end up with a Florida 2000 situation.
joe running back to the basement until Thursday , media still not asking about the corruption?
Sad!!

Its probably getting the same attention as the cashing in of the Trump family on Trump's presidency.

On Biden specifically, I'm sure questions will be asked if and when something credible comes up. The fact that Republican senators are on the record in 2016 advocating for the removal of Victor Shokin, and that the intelligence agencies advised the WH that Giuliani was probably being played by the Russians, doesn't exactly help the case that anything other than the most hopeful and desperate throwing of shit at the wall is taking place. That, and the utter failure of some of the other "scandals" or "greatest criminal conspiracies in US history" to stand up to even the most favourable and biased scrutiny by one of the most sycophantic and servile AGs ever.
played by the Russians? Have you heard of the Steele dossier

I've no doubt if the GOP holds the Senate and Biden wins the election, then Lindsay Graham and the rest will open multiple committee investigations on Hunter Biden to go along with the multiple ones already completed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2020, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 09:16:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2020, 09:01:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 07:34:18 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2020, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
So a little over 2 weeks out and still Joe's to lose

Dropped my ballot off today and unlike 2016, I actually voted for Mr Trump this time around

What tipped me over the edge was Mueller's team wiping their phones.....the whole thing was a sham and a hoax from beginning to end.

Not 100%  sure what to think about the Hunter Biden emails....they definitely look legit. Funny how FB and Twitter all of a sudden don't want to be seen facilitating the  spread  of unsubstantiated rumors.....when that's exactly what they've been doing for the past 4 years.

Finally the moderator of the second debate, former Biden intern, Steve Scully in kahoots with arch Trump critic, Steve Scarramucci then lying about it....couldn't make it up!

The last election was essentially decided by about 80,000 votes spread out over 5 states. Hard to see how Joe can't bridge that gap, but then of course Democrats are masters of their own destruction

So I think Joe will win, but maybe not as big as the polls are saying

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Chances of that happening are about 5%

Talk to you all after the election

Stay safe

Sure whitey.

There's always some Democratic or media conspiracy to rationalize your right wing political worldview.

Never any actual policy or position. Can't defend Trump or his corruption or lies or bigotry or tearing babies out of their mothers's arms or his appalling performance on COVID. Conspiracies and the media... yep, that justifies it all.

I mean... you break the law that's what happens,  same as any other crime. Doubt it involves any ripping though.

Wow.

Mask slipping?

And it exactly involved ripping/tearing... however you want to describe the act of separating terrified toddlers and babies from their desperate parents arms and shipping them across the country, for the extreme crime of illegally crossing the border or even seeking asylum.

Not even a felony. Seeking asylum is perfectly legal. Entering illegally or going out of status is a misdemeanor, on a par with jaywalking or speeding. I don't see kids being kidnapped and trafficked when their parents commit those offenses.

Take it up with the president who opened the detention centres, (hint: it wasn't Trump)

To be fair, Trump didn't get much of a wall built either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 19, 2020, 05:43:56 PM
When even Fox News didn't want to run the Biden story

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/exclusive-fox-news-passed-on-hunter-biden-laptop-story-over-credibility-concerns/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2020, 05:53:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 19, 2020, 05:43:56 PM
When even Fox News didn't want to run the Biden story

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/exclusive-fox-news-passed-on-hunter-biden-laptop-story-over-credibility-concerns/

Giuliani says that there is only a 50/50 chance that Derkach is a Russian spy who is playing him.

Well sure that's all right then. Why didn't he just say so? ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 19, 2020, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 03:39:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 12:12:38 AM
Bookies only have Biden 5/8 favourite, they are shit odds, Trump is worth a punt
Trump was on the verge of 2/1 odds this time last week. Has come in significantly to about 5/4

There's quite a few states that could go either way, so Trump is far from out of this.

Of course not. Especially if it comes down to one or two very tight states and you end up with a Florida 2000 situation.
joe running back to the basement until Thursday , media still not asking about the corruption?
Sad!!

Its probably getting the same attention as the cashing in of the Trump family on Trump's presidency.

On Biden specifically, I'm sure questions will be asked if and when something credible comes up. The fact that Republican senators are on the record in 2016 advocating for the removal of Victor Shokin, and that the intelligence agencies advised the WH that Giuliani was probably being played by the Russians, doesn't exactly help the case that anything other than the most hopeful and desperate throwing of shit at the wall is taking place. That, and the utter failure of some of the other "scandals" or "greatest criminal conspiracies in US history" to stand up to even the most favourable and biased scrutiny by one of the most sycophantic and servile AGs ever.
played by the Russians? Have you heard of the Steele dossier

I've no doubt if the GOP holds the Senate and Biden wins the election, then Lindsay Graham and the rest will open multiple committee investigations on Hunter Biden to go along with the multiple ones already completed.

Investigations will be launched into whether:
Joe Biden murdered his wife
Hillary Clinton shot JR
AOC is actually the daughter of Fidel Castro
Barack Obama is the son of Saddam Hussein
Jimmy Carter kidnapped the Lindbergh baby
Bill Clinton is Satan himself

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 19, 2020, 09:59:50 PM
The new Republican tactic: literally burn Democratic votes

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/10/19/ballot-box-fire-arson-vote-election/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:07:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 19, 2020, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2020, 03:39:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2020, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 12:12:38 AM
Bookies only have Biden 5/8 favourite, they are shit odds, Trump is worth a punt
Trump was on the verge of 2/1 odds this time last week. Has come in significantly to about 5/4

There's quite a few states that could go either way, so Trump is far from out of this.

Of course not. Especially if it comes down to one or two very tight states and you end up with a Florida 2000 situation.
joe running back to the basement until Thursday , media still not asking about the corruption?
Sad!!

Its probably getting the same attention as the cashing in of the Trump family on Trump's presidency.

On Biden specifically, I'm sure questions will be asked if and when something credible comes up. The fact that Republican senators are on the record in 2016 advocating for the removal of Victor Shokin, and that the intelligence agencies advised the WH that Giuliani was probably being played by the Russians, doesn't exactly help the case that anything other than the most hopeful and desperate throwing of shit at the wall is taking place. That, and the utter failure of some of the other "scandals" or "greatest criminal conspiracies in US history" to stand up to even the most favourable and biased scrutiny by one of the most sycophantic and servile AGs ever.
played by the Russians? Have you heard of the Steele dossier

I've no doubt if the GOP holds the Senate and Biden wins the election, then Lindsay Graham and the rest will open multiple committee investigations on Hunter Biden to go along with the multiple ones already completed.

Investigations will be launched into whether:
Joe Biden murdered his wife
Hillary Clinton shot JR
AOC is actually the daughter of Fidel Castro
Barack Obama is the son of Saddam Hussein
Jimmy Carter kidnapped the Lindbergh baby
Bill Clinton is Satan himself

and JFK was responsible for the disappearance of Glen Millar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on October 20, 2020, 03:18:21 PM
I see it is alleged that disgraced former Trump strategist Steve Bannon has been behind the latest Joe/Hunter Biden hoax and has been sitting on this laptop story for over a year. How coincidental that he got his hands on the device and passed it onto Rudy. Bannon wants to control the country.

Luckily the media decided not to cover the story as it's fake beyond belief. Nobody could be that dumb to have emails and photos like the ones mentioned and the public won't buy it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2020, 03:29:09 PM
Quote from: Roesider on October 20, 2020, 03:18:21 PM
I see it is alleged that disgraced former Trump strategist Steve Bannon has been behind the latest Joe/Hunter Biden hoax and has been sitting on this laptop story for over a year. How coincidental that he got his hands on the device and passed it onto Rudy. Bannon wants to control the country.

Luckily the media decided not to cover the story as it's fake beyond belief. Nobody could be that dumb to have emails and photos like the ones mentioned and the public won't buy it.

Personally, I don't doubt for a second that Hunter Biden tried to cash in on his father's position and status, same as the Trump family is doing, and same as countless other politically connected families and friends have done for donkeys years. That's the system that exists and is exploited by the rich and connected.

Doesn't mean that Joe Biden is or was corrupt or that he leaned on the Ukraine to specifically benefit his son. Particularly when the relevant GOP senators at the time are on the record as supporting US foreign policy moves to get rid of that Shokin dude and clean up his department, with one of the issues of concern being the FAILURE to properly investigate Burisma. EU supported it too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 05:11:51 PM
The new one from the Trump loons and their pals at Fox News is to make vague allegations of paedophilia and child porn possession against Hunter Biden and indeed Joe Biden

I think we've heard this one before

The greatest hits are being rolled out

Honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if the Republicans have been working for months on a deepfake child porn video against Hunter Biden

Nothing from Fox about the actual paedophilia case that was taken against Trump of course

Perhaps he and Epstein raped that 13 year old girl to save her from rape by somebody else - that's the QAnon logic anyway
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on October 20, 2020, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 05:11:51 PM
The new one from the Trump loons and their pals at Fox News is to make vague allegations of paedophilia and child porn possession against Hunter Biden and indeed Joe Biden

I think we've heard this one before

The greatest hits are being rolled out

Honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if the Republicans have been working for months on a deepfake child porn video against Hunter Biden

Nothing from Fox about the actual paedophilia case that was taken against Trump of course

Perhaps he and Epstein raped that 13 year old girl to save her from rape by somebody else - that's the QAnon logic anyway

They are lying about Hunter Biden being set up in a sting in China and that he is now being extorted to prevent that footage getting out.

I don't know how much lower the media can go when they are reporting this as the truth. It has Bannon written all over it.
The Biden camp are right not to answer any questions. There is no need to prove the media wrong as it only fuels them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 20, 2020, 05:56:01 PM
Quote from: Roesider on October 20, 2020, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 05:11:51 PM
The new one from the Trump loons and their pals at Fox News is to make vague allegations of paedophilia and child porn possession against Hunter Biden and indeed Joe Biden

I think we've heard this one before

The greatest hits are being rolled out

Honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if the Republicans have been working for months on a deepfake child porn video against Hunter Biden

Nothing from Fox about the actual paedophilia case that was taken against Trump of course

Perhaps he and Epstein raped that 13 year old girl to save her from rape by somebody else - that's the QAnon logic anyway

They are lying about Hunter Biden being set up in a sting in China and that he is now being extorted to prevent that footage getting out.

I don't know how much lower the media can go when they are reporting this as the truth. It has Bannon written all over it.
The Biden camp are right not to answer any questions. There is no need to prove the media wrong as it only fuels them.
the media lying? Where have you been for the last 4 years .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 20, 2020, 05:56:08 PM
Some of the voting numbers coming out are eye-opening

Quote@Redistrict

Total Trump votes cast in TX in 2016: 4,685,047
Total 2020 votes cast in TX as of last night: 4,706,398
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2020, 07:15:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2020, 05:56:01 PM
Quote from: Roesider on October 20, 2020, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 05:11:51 PM
The new one from the Trump loons and their pals at Fox News is to make vague allegations of paedophilia and child porn possession against Hunter Biden and indeed Joe Biden

I think we've heard this one before

The greatest hits are being rolled out

Honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if the Republicans have been working for months on a deepfake child porn video against Hunter Biden

Nothing from Fox about the actual paedophilia case that was taken against Trump of course

Perhaps he and Epstein raped that 13 year old girl to save her from rape by somebody else - that's the QAnon logic anyway

They are lying about Hunter Biden being set up in a sting in China and that he is now being extorted to prevent that footage getting out.

I don't know how much lower the media can go when they are reporting this as the truth. It has Bannon written all over it.
The Biden camp are right not to answer any questions. There is no need to prove the media wrong as it only fuels them.
the media lying? Where have you been for the last 4 years .

It was 20,000 and counting for Trump himself a few months ago.

How many have been told against him?

Anything equivalent to his casual QAnon accusations last week about Obama and Biden murdering Seal Team 6, the four Benghazi victims and Bin Laden's body double?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2020, 07:25:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 05:11:51 PM
The new one from the Trump loons and their pals at Fox News is to make vague allegations of paedophilia and child porn possession against Hunter Biden and indeed Joe Biden

I think we've heard this one before

The greatest hits are being rolled out

Honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if the Republicans have been working for months on a deepfake child porn video against Hunter Biden

Nothing from Fox about the actual paedophilia case that was taken against Trump of course

Perhaps he and Epstein raped that 13 year old girl to save her from rape by somebody else - that's the QAnon logic anyway

Apparently former Wall Street "babe" Maria Bartiromo was pushing the paedophilia bollocks on Fox.

She has recently really prostrated herself at the altar of Trump after, for years, being a fairly run-of-the-mill markets commentator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2020, 10:20:22 PM
How many family members does Trump have working in his criminal enterprise administration?

Talk about projecting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:23:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 20, 2020, 07:25:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 05:11:51 PM
The new one from the Trump loons and their pals at Fox News is to make vague allegations of paedophilia and child porn possession against Hunter Biden and indeed Joe Biden

I think we've heard this one before

The greatest hits are being rolled out

Honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if the Republicans have been working for months on a deepfake child porn video against Hunter Biden

Nothing from Fox about the actual paedophilia case that was taken against Trump of course

Perhaps he and Epstein raped that 13 year old girl to save her from rape by somebody else - that's the QAnon logic anyway

Apparently former Wall Street "babe" Maria Bartiromo was pushing the paedophilia bollocks on Fox.

She has recently really prostrated herself at the altar of Trump after, for years, being a fairly run-of-the-mill markets commentator.
Oh she was indeed

And it isn't recent

I've long since formed an opinion of her that's she's dodgy as hell
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 20, 2020, 11:30:24 PM
I see he's walked out of an interview with 60 Minutes earlier today and has now threatened to air an unedited version of the interview before the Sunday night airing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 21, 2020, 02:06:20 AM
WSJ have a piece about the Biden's in the pipeline, will twitter try suppress again .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 21, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 21, 2020, 02:06:20 AM
WSJ have a piece about the Biden's in the pipeline, will twitter try suppress again .

Is it as dodgy and questionable as the laptop story?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 21, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 21, 2020, 02:06:20 AM
WSJ have a piece about the Biden's in the pipeline, will twitter try suppress again .

Is it as dodgy and questionable as the laptop story?

Just read a bit in WSJ about Biden and the emails . . .

"Whatever the truth, the public deserves better than Mr. Biden's Trump-like dismissal of the CBS reporter who so far is the only one brave enough to ask about the emails."

Denouncing what they created now. Biden is going to be 4 years of not a whole lot but at least some order. Harris in 2024 will hopefully be able to start building something again!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 21, 2020, 11:18:21 PM
Gmac, surprised you're not all over Giuliani's latest escapades, i.e. his adventures with Borat? ;D

Talk about getting hoisted on your own petard! :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 21, 2020, 11:28:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2020, 11:18:21 PM
Gmac, surprised you're not all over Giuliani's latest escapades, i.e. his adventures with Borat? ;D

Talk about getting hoisted on your own petard! :D

He was just tucking his shirt!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 11:57:34 PM
If Giuliani gets compromised by Borat just think what a KGB agent could do to him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:41:09 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 21, 2020, 11:28:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2020, 11:18:21 PM
Gmac, surprised you're not all over Giuliani's latest escapades, i.e. his adventures with Borat? ;D

Talk about getting hoisted on your own petard! :D

He was just tucking his shirt!!

(https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/comp-1603306612.png?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C362&ssl=1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 22, 2020, 12:42:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2020, 11:18:21 PM
Gmac, surprised you're not all over Giuliani's latest escapades, i.e. his adventures with Borat? ;D

Talk about getting hoisted on your own petard! :D
hes not running for president unlike joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on October 22, 2020, 01:03:52 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2020, 05:56:01 PM
Quote from: Roesider on October 20, 2020, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 05:11:51 PM
The new one from the Trump loons and their pals at Fox News is to make vague allegations of paedophilia and child porn possession against Hunter Biden and indeed Joe Biden

I think we've heard this one before

The greatest hits are being rolled out

Honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if the Republicans have been working for months on a deepfake child porn video against Hunter Biden

Nothing from Fox about the actual paedophilia case that was taken against Trump of course

Perhaps he and Epstein raped that 13 year old girl to save her from rape by somebody else - that's the QAnon logic anyway

They are lying about Hunter Biden being set up in a sting in China and that he is now being extorted to prevent that footage getting out.

I don't know how much lower the media can go when they are reporting this as the truth. It has Bannon written all over it.
The Biden camp are right not to answer any questions. There is no need to prove the media wrong as it only fuels them.
the media lying? Where have you been for the last 4 years .

It's mainly gutter press like the NY Post that will print this sort of dispicable article.

It's pretty obvious that the Trump team is losing and they'll use any tactic to stay in the running. Adam Schiff has already called out Trumps director of intelligence John Ratcliffe as a liar. Ratcliffe is insisting the Biden laptop story was real but Schiff has sources from the actual intelligence community who have confirmed that this is all a Russian disinformation campaign.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:04:13 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:41:09 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 21, 2020, 11:28:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2020, 11:18:21 PM
Gmac, surprised you're not all over Giuliani's latest escapades, i.e. his adventures with Borat? ;D

Talk about getting hoisted on your own petard! :D

He was just tucking his shirt!!

(https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/comp-1603306612.png?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C362&ssl=1)
Ah jaysus, that cannot be unseen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:07:41 AM
New Trump tactic

Blackmail and extort voters

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ek0OT0kXIAIgOpf?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:09:23 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2020, 12:42:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2020, 11:18:21 PM
Gmac, surprised you're not all over Giuliani's latest escapades, i.e. his adventures with Borat? ;D

Talk about getting hoisted on your own petard! :D
hes not running for president unlike joe

Neither is Hunter Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 22, 2020, 01:11:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:07:41 AM
New Trump tactic

Blackmail and extort voters

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ek0OT0kXIAIgOpf?format=png&name=small)

Russia and Iran apparently!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:23:15 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 22, 2020, 01:11:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:07:41 AM
New Trump tactic

Blackmail and extort voters

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ek0OT0kXIAIgOpf?format=png&name=small)

Russia and Iran apparently!

Trump won't want to hear about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 22, 2020, 01:28:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:09:23 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2020, 12:42:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2020, 11:18:21 PM
Gmac, surprised you're not all over Giuliani's latest escapades, i.e. his adventures with Borat? ;D

Talk about getting hoisted on your own petard! :D
hes not running for president unlike joe

Neither is Hunter Biden.
joe hasn't been seen outside since Monday he's not a legitimate candidate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:54:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2020, 01:28:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:09:23 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2020, 12:42:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 21, 2020, 11:18:21 PM
Gmac, surprised you're not all over Giuliani's latest escapades, i.e. his adventures with Borat? ;D

Talk about getting hoisted on your own petard! :D
hes not running for president unlike joe

Neither is Hunter Biden.
joe hasn't been seen outside since Monday he's not a legitimate candidate.

Do expand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 22, 2020, 02:06:05 AM
Don't you know about the bit in the constitution requiring candidates to be seen outside every day during the campaign, lest they forfeit their legitimacy J70?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 22, 2020, 03:01:52 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 22, 2020, 01:11:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:07:41 AM
New Trump tactic

Blackmail and extort voters

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ek0OT0kXIAIgOpf?format=png&name=small)

Russia and Iran apparently!
Iran want to get another 300 m in cash it seems .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 22, 2020, 05:01:19 AM
Please Lads ... Don't give the troll from Queen's County any more oxygen. Ignore him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Trump has been constantly undermining attempts to properly combat it and inform the public. He could have led a sober, serious effort to fight this (which, if he had a lick of sense, would ultimately have served him very well), but no, he thought his election chances were best served by downplaying it, calling it a hoax, fomenting right wing extremists to resist lockdowns on the threat of violence, holding rallies and flouting public health advice, politically interfering in the work of the federal agencies such as the CDC and FDA, and so on and on, anything to rile up his anti-government, anti-intellectual base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:55:19 PM
I should add, specifically on your point about the governors, Trump IS the Republican Party. They all pretty much bow down at his feet. A few GOP governors took it seriously and tried to address it (MD, MA, OH), but most of the GOP politicians are scared shitless of crossing him and incurring his wrath, such is the hold he has on the party and its base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:04:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Trump has been constantly undermining attempts to properly combat it and inform the public. He could have led a sober, serious effort to fight this (which, if he had a lick of sense, would ultimately have served him very well), but no, he thought his election chances were best served by downplaying it, calling it a hoax, fomenting right wing extremists to resist lockdowns on the threat of violence, holding rallies and flouting public health advice, politically interfering in the work of the federal agencies such as the CDC and FDA, and so on and on, anything to rile up his anti-government, anti-intellectual base.

::)
You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.
Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.
Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology

Why pick June 1st?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.
Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology

Why pick June 1st?
Because that was around when the intitial wave subsided and there were no more excuses for not putting suppression strategies in place

Predictably the Republican run states refused to take the virus seriously and were worse hit

It's also down to many Republican voters living in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid because they follow Trump, who lives in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid

Wallowing in stupidity is a defining and defiant characteristic of right-wing politics

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:23:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.
Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology

Why pick June 1st?
Because that was around when the intitial wave subsided and there were no more excuses for not putting suppression strategies in place

Predictably the Republican run states refused to take the virus seriously and were worse hit

It's also down to many Republican voters living in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid because they follow Trump, who lives in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid

Wallowing in stupidity is a defining and defiant characteristic of right-wing politics

The deaths prior to June 1st don't matter because they don't suit your agenda. There were no excuses either for the charnel house that Cuomo made of New York nursing homes. No wonder you resort to aggressive insults every time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:04:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Trump has been constantly undermining attempts to properly combat it and inform the public. He could have led a sober, serious effort to fight this (which, if he had a lick of sense, would ultimately have served him very well), but no, he thought his election chances were best served by downplaying it, calling it a hoax, fomenting right wing extremists to resist lockdowns on the threat of violence, holding rallies and flouting public health advice, politically interfering in the work of the federal agencies such as the CDC and FDA, and so on and on, anything to rile up his anti-government, anti-intellectual base.

::)
You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...

Cuomo very publicly flattered, hassled and scolded Trump for weeks in his press conferences, whatever he felt necessary on the day to get the needed help from the Feds. Of all the governors, Cuomo did not hold back, either on criticizing Trump or leading the effort in his state. They made a horrible call early on in trying to preserve hospital beds with the nursing home order, and his feuding with DeBlasio is getting very tiresome and petty after all these years, but he got the outbreak under control fairly quickly after getting hit so hard so early with the virus coming in undetected from Europe through NYC. There'll be plenty to criticize him over in retrospect, as with all of the leaders in this, but continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts is not one of the issues. Just in the past few weeks, it looks like they are successfully addressing the re-emergence of the virus in parts of Brooklyn and Queens by imposing restrictions, rather than just wishing it all away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:30:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:04:52 PM

You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...

Cuomo very publicly flattered, hassled and scolded Trump for weeks in his press conferences, whatever he felt necessary on the day to get the needed help from the Feds. Of all the governors, Cuomo did not hold back, either on criticizing Trump or leading the effort in his state. They made a horrible call early on in trying to preserve hospital beds with the nursing home order, and his feuding with DeBlasio is getting very tiresome and petty after all these years, but he got the outbreak under control fairly quickly after getting hit so hard so early with the virus coming in undetected from Europe through NYC. There'll be plenty to criticize him over in retrospect, as with all of the leaders in this, but continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts is not one of the issues. Just in the past few weeks, it looks like they are successfully addressing the re-emergence of the virus in parts of Brooklyn and Queens by imposing restrictions, rather than just wishing it all away.

Ah come on, after what happened in Italy, any gobdaw would know that moving patients from nursing homes to hospitals and back without appropriate procedures was going to end very badly for those patients.

In this vein what they did in trying to pin their failures on the Donald also qualifies as"continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:41:14 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:30:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:04:52 PM

You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...

Cuomo very publicly flattered, hassled and scolded Trump for weeks in his press conferences, whatever he felt necessary on the day to get the needed help from the Feds. Of all the governors, Cuomo did not hold back, either on criticizing Trump or leading the effort in his state. They made a horrible call early on in trying to preserve hospital beds with the nursing home order, and his feuding with DeBlasio is getting very tiresome and petty after all these years, but he got the outbreak under control fairly quickly after getting hit so hard so early with the virus coming in undetected from Europe through NYC. There'll be plenty to criticize him over in retrospect, as with all of the leaders in this, but continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts is not one of the issues. Just in the past few weeks, it looks like they are successfully addressing the re-emergence of the virus in parts of Brooklyn and Queens by imposing restrictions, rather than just wishing it all away.

Ah come on, after what happened in Italy, any gobdaw would know that moving patients from nursing homes to hospitals and back without appropriate procedures was going to end very badly for those patients.

In this vein what they did in trying to pin their failures on the Donald also qualifies as"continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts".

They were bracing for hospitals being overrun, which they were in many in NYC. Where they fucked up was in not ensuring that the nursing homes themselves were capable of handling those patients. Cuomo and his team have to answer for that (and they're not the only ones; many other places and countries suffered the same fate). But that was a mistake in the midst of an unfolding crisis where they're scrambling and bracing for the coming tsunami. It wasn't a case of getting out there every day and screaming "nothing to see here because its an election year" like Trump effectively was. So not the same thing at all.

Biggest question IMO facing Cuomo and indeed local and national governments everywhere regarding the early stages is how prepared they were for an outbreak of this type that would place such extreme demands on emergency and ICU facilities. And if they weren't prepared, why not? If you're properly prepared, then mistakes don't get made in the midst of the unfolding crisis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:41:14 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:30:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:04:52 PM

You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...

Cuomo very publicly flattered, hassled and scolded Trump for weeks in his press conferences, whatever he felt necessary on the day to get the needed help from the Feds. Of all the governors, Cuomo did not hold back, either on criticizing Trump or leading the effort in his state. They made a horrible call early on in trying to preserve hospital beds with the nursing home order, and his feuding with DeBlasio is getting very tiresome and petty after all these years, but he got the outbreak under control fairly quickly after getting hit so hard so early with the virus coming in undetected from Europe through NYC. There'll be plenty to criticize him over in retrospect, as with all of the leaders in this, but continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts is not one of the issues. Just in the past few weeks, it looks like they are successfully addressing the re-emergence of the virus in parts of Brooklyn and Queens by imposing restrictions, rather than just wishing it all away.

Ah come on, after what happened in Italy, any gobdaw would know that moving patients from nursing homes to hospitals and back without appropriate procedures was going to end very badly for those patients.

In this vein what they did in trying to pin their failures on the Donald also qualifies as"continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts".

They were bracing for hospitals being overrun, which they were in many in NYC. Where they fucked up was in not ensuring that the nursing homes themselves were capable of handling those patients. Cuomo and his team have to answer for that (and they're not the only ones; many other places and countries suffered the same fate). But that was a mistake in the midst of an unfolding crisis where they're scrambling and bracing for the coming tsunami. It wasn't a case of getting out there every day and screaming "nothing to see here because its an election year" like Trump effectively was. So not the same thing at all.

Biggest question IMO facing Cuomo and indeed local and national governments everywhere regarding the early stages is how prepared they were for an outbreak of this type that would place such extreme demands on emergency and ICU facilities. And if they weren't prepared, why not? If you're properly prepared, then mistakes don't get made in the midst of the unfolding crisis.

I agree with almost all of that. And Trump was undoubtedly electioneering at a time when, if only for his own sake, he'd have been better keeping his mouth shut. But there's a world of difference between that and being blameworthy for deaths.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Olly on October 22, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
Ive been talking to loads of people recently and many Irish people are shifting towards Trump in recent days so when the Irish hand in their votes I can see us giving him nearly the maximum vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:44:04 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:23:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2020, 12:39:16 PM
Quote from: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a (https://bit.ly/3matz0a)
Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.
Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology

Why pick June 1st?
Because that was around when the intitial wave subsided and there were no more excuses for not putting suppression strategies in place

Predictably the Republican run states refused to take the virus seriously and were worse hit

It's also down to many Republican voters living in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid because they follow Trump, who lives in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid

Wallowing in stupidity is a defining and defiant characteristic of right-wing politics

The deaths prior to June 1st don't matter because they don't suit your agenda. There were no excuses either for the charnel house that Cuomo made of New York nursing homes. No wonder you resort to aggressive insults every time.
A lot of places were hit very hard early on because this was a new disease and there was little knowledge about it, also metropolitan areas which high population densities were petri dishes for it

It was no longer the case by June 1st that we did not know what we were dealing with, we knew full well

The simple fact is Republicans have cocked a snook at the virus the whole way through, they aid it was a hoax, they said it would go away like a miracle

Democrats have tended to take it seriously

Again, it's a devastating demonstration of how rejection of science in favour of living in a fantasy reality is an integral part of Republican ideology, or should I say, whipping up many millions of people into living in a fantasy reality - because there's no way the cossetted elites like Trump and his fellow travellers in the Republican party actually believe the bullshit they spout about Covid

On the other hand Democratic politicians tend to exist in a fact-based world

This is a modern battle between flat earthers and those who know the world is round

No respect whatsoever should be paid to those who push the flat earth ideology

As Noam Chomsky says, the Republican party is the most dangerous organisation in human history

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 22, 2020, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: Olly on October 22, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
Ive been talking to loads of people recently and many Irish people are shifting towards Trump in recent days so when the Irish hand in their votes I can see us giving him nearly the maximum vote.

I really can't believe that, most Irish people are decent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on October 22, 2020, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 22, 2020, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: Olly on October 22, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
Ive been talking to loads of people recently and many Irish people are shifting towards Trump in recent days so when the Irish hand in their votes I can see us giving him nearly the maximum vote.

I really can't believe that, most Irish people are decent.

Can't believe Olly is still reeling them in after all these years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 22, 2020, 08:27:35 PM
Amy looks like she will sail through the dems didn't even bother showing up today for the vote to move it to senate for approval.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 22, 2020, 08:37:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2020, 08:27:35 PM
Amy looks like she will sail through the dems didn't even bother showing up today for the vote to move it to senate for approval.

Of course she'll sail through.

That was never in doubt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:08:05 PM
Bet this guy is a big QAnon fan too

Loves the child porn

Seems to be a huge projection thing going on with the oul' child porn in Trumpland

Quotehttps://www.wbtv.com/2020/10/22/man-arrested-kannapolis-with-van-full-guns-explosives-researched-killing-joe-biden/

By Nick Ochsner | October 22, 2020 at 3:34 PM EDT - Updated October 22 at 5:56 PM
KANNAPOLIS, N.C. (WBTV) – A man was arrested in Kannapolis with a van full of guns and explosives with plans to carry out an act of terrorism, including trying to assassinate Joe Biden.

An order filed in federal court earlier this month outlines the plans by a man identified as Alexander Hillel Treisman, who also used the alias Alexander S. Theiss.

In the order, a federal magistrate judge outlined the reasons why Treisman should continue to be held in jail on child pornography charges.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:22:15 PM
Per NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/22/us/trump-biden-debate-tonight#russia-poses-a-bigger-election-threat-than-iran-many-us-officials-say

"Officials say Russia's ability to change vote tallies nationwide is limited."

So, Russia has the ability to change vote tallies

This should probably be much bigger news, as in the main story - not that it is new, but that it sort of, you know, leaves the election result open to being falsified

And why anybody thinks Russia would not falsify the result if they can beats me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:38:59 PM
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2020/10/21/pope-francis-separation-children-migrant-families-documentary

Pope Francis called the Trump administration policy of separating children at the border "cruelty of the highest form" in a new documentary that premiered in Rome today.

"It's cruelty, and separating kids from parents goes against natural rights," the Pope says in the documentary "Francesco." "It's something a Christian cannot do. It's cruelty of the highest form."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on October 22, 2020, 11:51:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:22:15 PM
Per NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/22/us/trump-biden-debate-tonight#russia-poses-a-bigger-election-threat-than-iran-many-us-officials-say

"Officials say Russia's ability to change vote tallies nationwide is limited."

So, Russia has the ability to change vote tallies

This should probably be much bigger news, as in the main story - not that it is new, but that it sort of, you know, leaves the election result open to being falsified

And why anybody thinks Russia would not falsify the result if they can beats me

It's been fairly evident since the Trump Tower meeting that Donald is relying heavily on Russia to keep him in power.
This is why mail-in ballots are a better solution than booths as these can be tampered with by Russian meddling. Sounds old-school but at least you get an accurate tally at the end of counting rather than an electronic number that may be false and helping Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TwoUpTwoDown on October 23, 2020, 12:11:51 AM
Can the debate tonight be watched in the 6?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 23, 2020, 12:15:56 AM
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on October 23, 2020, 12:11:51 AM
Can the debate tonight be watched in the 6?

BBC news channel, on freevew, sky etc. and the iplayer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2020, 12:44:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:38:59 PM
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2020/10/21/pope-francis-separation-children-migrant-families-documentary

Pope Francis called the Trump administration policy of separating children at the border "cruelty of the highest form" in a new documentary that premiered in Rome today.

"It's cruelty, and separating kids from parents goes against natural rights," the Pope says in the documentary "Francesco." "It's something a Christian cannot do. It's cruelty of the highest form."

The pope is absolutely correct.

It beggars belief that any moral person could support a policy like this, especially anyone who is a parent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 23, 2020, 01:00:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2020, 12:44:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:38:59 PM
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2020/10/21/pope-francis-separation-children-migrant-families-documentary

Pope Francis called the Trump administration policy of separating children at the border "cruelty of the highest form" in a new documentary that premiered in Rome today.

"It's cruelty, and separating kids from parents goes against natural rights," the Pope says in the documentary "Francesco." "It's something a Christian cannot do. It's cruelty of the highest form."

The pope is absolutely correct.

It beggars belief that any moral person could support a policy like this, especially anyone who is a parent.
two huge advocates for the Catholic Church here .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 01:39:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2020, 12:44:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:38:59 PM
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2020/10/21/pope-francis-separation-children-migrant-families-documentary

Pope Francis called the Trump administration policy of separating children at the border "cruelty of the highest form" in a new documentary that premiered in Rome today.

"It's cruelty, and separating kids from parents goes against natural rights," the Pope says in the documentary "Francesco." "It's something a Christian cannot do. It's cruelty of the highest form."

The pope is absolutely correct.

It beggars belief that any moral person could support a policy like this, especially anyone who is a parent.
Seems the Republicans are anti-Catholic

Not just anti-Catholic, anti-Christian
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2020, 02:03:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 23, 2020, 01:00:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 23, 2020, 12:44:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:38:59 PM
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2020/10/21/pope-francis-separation-children-migrant-families-documentary

Pope Francis called the Trump administration policy of separating children at the border "cruelty of the highest form" in a new documentary that premiered in Rome today.

"It's cruelty, and separating kids from parents goes against natural rights," the Pope says in the documentary "Francesco." "It's something a Christian cannot do. It's cruelty of the highest form."

The pope is absolutely correct.

It beggars belief that any moral person could support a policy like this, especially anyone who is a parent.
two huge advocates for the Catholic Church here .

That's all you got??

Is the pope correct in your opinion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:20:29 AM
Strong opening by Biden here

Having an actual debate does not suit Trump

He'll surely throw a massive tantrum soon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:23:49 AM
Trump going to war on plexiglass

The one thing that has been least intrusive since being introduced due to Covid, and unsurprisingly he's against it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:25:22 AM
"I take full responsibility. It's not my fault..."

Verbatim quote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2020, 02:26:15 AM
Not watching. It's going to get ugly. Trump campaign going full QAnon/Pizzagate this week with paedophilia shit which I'm sure he'll try to squeeze in.

I'm giving it a miss and watching the Springsteen documentary about his new album.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:30:39 AM
Trump claiming Russia wants him to lose  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 23, 2020, 02:35:25 AM
Donald doing a lot better tonight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:47:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 23, 2020, 02:35:25 AM
Donald doing a lot better tonight.
La la la la la
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 23, 2020, 02:48:40 AM
Is it possible for Trump to answer one question without a lie?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 23, 2020, 02:59:37 AM
No
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 03:00:36 AM
Trump has made over 100 lies so far according to real time fact checkers

He is floundering
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 23, 2020, 03:02:11 AM
Watching a bit of this to see what the craic is.

Those are two dreadful candidates for the leadership of any country. Much less a country the status of the US.

Trump is obviously absurd nonsense. But Biden is a nothing candidate.

You just have to step back and wonder what the f**k is going on in the place that these two are deemed your best options. If ever a country needed some sort of political reset and to just start over again this is it. This is rock bottom stuff.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 03:10:22 AM
I've actually been pleasantly surprised by Biden's campaign

I expected him to be a disaster

But he has been very competent the whole way through

I think he's been well advised and has a really good team behind him

Perhaps the expectations were so low that just by being competent he has dispelled all the stuff that was said which portrayed him as senile

He's winning this debate comfortably by any objective standard
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 23, 2020, 03:30:57 AM
If you want to have large windows in your house.. you better vote for Trump... !!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 03:31:12 AM
Vebatim exchange:

Biden: "And now we have 545 kids lost."

Trump: "Good."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 23, 2020, 03:38:30 AM
Trump left the stage looking defeated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 03:44:21 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 23, 2020, 03:38:30 AM
Trump left the stage looking defeated.
He grunted at moderator Kirsten Welker before slinking off stage

Biden positioned himself effectively on issues which affect the working class while accurately portraying Trump as the cossetted elitist he is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 23, 2020, 03:50:45 AM
You nailed that Sid. However when the Trump base view the debate through the prism of the Murdoch/Fox lens they will come away with a polar opposite view. Sad.. Just wait for Gmac and crew....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 23, 2020, 04:29:18 AM
"Other countries. Particularly Europe"

So many gems in there tonight. Where do you start?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 23, 2020, 04:33:15 AM
"I had to. They made me do it."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 23, 2020, 08:36:37 AM
I see Biden done a Poots and tried to say the pandemic is worse in red states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 23, 2020, 09:16:46 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 23, 2020, 08:36:37 AM
I see Biden done a Poots and tried to say the pandemic is worse in red states.

Red states and blue states is a little different than talking about Catholics and Protestants though isn't it??!

Didn't watch the debates but sounds like it was probably fairly even and Trump did better than the last time.

I actually think a Biden presidency will be the reset that the USA needs for the next candidate. Of course he's not an Obama or even a George W but people saying he's not much better than Trump are delirious. He won't be great but he won't be separating children/stirring up racial hatred/denying climate change/decrying the media/trying to ignore the Coronavirus/giving huge tax cuts to corporations and in that vein he'll be a damn sight better than Trump!!

He'll have troubles as all Presidents do but it'll be so much better than the current administration and hopefully the people in the middle will see that!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: weareros on October 23, 2020, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 21, 2020, 02:06:20 AM
WSJ have a piece about the Biden's in the pipeline, will twitter try suppress again .

Have been following this weird laptop story.WSJ news side just published their piece debunking the story that Biden was involved. Is that what you were waiting for? WSJ is also owned by Rubert Murdoch, so that says something. Murdoch also owns NYPost, which is a rag by all accounts.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hunter-bidens-ex-business-partner-alleges-father-knew-about-venture-11603421247
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 23, 2020, 03:02:55 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 23, 2020, 09:16:46 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 23, 2020, 08:36:37 AM
I see Biden done a Poots and tried to say the pandemic is worse in red states.

Red states and blue states is a little different than talking about Catholics and Protestants though isn't it??!

Didn't watch the debates but sounds like it was probably fairly even and Trump did better than the last time.

I actually think a Biden presidency will be the reset that the USA needs for the next candidate. Of course he's not an Obama or even a George W but people saying he's not much better than Trump are delirious. He won't be great but he won't be separating children/stirring up racial hatred/denying climate change/decrying the media/trying to ignore the Coronavirus/giving huge tax cuts to corporations and in that vein he'll be a damn sight better than Trump!!

He'll have troubles as all Presidents do but it'll be so much better than the current administration and hopefully the people in the middle will see that!!
A bit odd that Trump supporter bringing blue/red up, given it was Trump who did a lot more of that, and Biden did really well with his "United states not blue/red states" comments.

Both were much improved from the first debate. The mute button really helped Trump because it meant he couldnt come across as just a big ignoramus like he did first time round. But he was properly behaved when the mic was open too.

He has a gift of the "one liner".

Biden was forceful and more presidential than he's ever been. For those of us who might have been unconvinced by his leadership qualities, he quelled that I thought. He did have a couple of mumbling bits when it came to remembering names, but probably only noticeable because I was watching out for them and improved on previous efforts. He's very good at explaining policy.

Overall both can be reasonably happy. No home runs, no clangers. Not many minds changed.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 23, 2020, 04:51:09 PM
Biden's betting odds have improved again. His odds were starting to drift a bit but I think that's because people were taking a punt on Trump because of the possibility of big returns in the event of an upset. Biden's polling numbers in the tipping-point states still show a stable lead.

(Notice how Trump mentioned how awful life is for people in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio? Interesting how he's suddenly more concerned about them than his golf schedule.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:10:18 PM
White supremacists are responsible for over two-thirds of US terrorism this year

Hardly surprising when the president endorses them

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremacists-rightwing-domestic-terror-2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 23, 2020, 05:33:12 PM
Some of you boys on here will lose your shit if Trump wins again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 23, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 23, 2020, 05:33:12 PM
Some of you boys on here will lose your shit if Trump wins again

Yep.

And rightfully so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 23, 2020, 05:33:12 PM
Some of you boys on here will lose your shit if Trump wins again
You say it like you're discussing the outcome of a football match rather than the reality of what it is - a crucial battle against fascism with huge implications for the world

No real arguing with somebody who has such a shallow understanding of things




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 23, 2020, 07:15:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 23, 2020, 05:33:12 PM
Some of you boys on here will lose your shit if Trump wins again
You say it like you're discussing the outcome of a football match rather than the reality of what it is - a crucial battle against fascism with huge implications for the world

No real arguing with somebody who has such a shallow understanding of things

Indeed. If Hillary had been our President in the last four years, she wouldn't have fired the pandemic response team and there's a real chance that Covid could have been contained in China. Just like 9/11 probably would not have happened on Al Gore's watch. The world is just not safe in Rethuglican hands, especially the ones that get elected by a minority of voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 23, 2020, 09:22:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 23, 2020, 05:33:12 PM
Some of you boys on here will lose your shit if Trump wins again

You are correct, Sir.
But I might be able to hold on to it if they put me on Oxycodone so I can handle the pain of a culture and an economy in free fall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on October 23, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
Interesting debate. Trump managed to contain himself a lot better this time around. A lot less shouting and none of his usual one liners managed to go anywhere.

Biden put on a masterclass of how to behave in a presidential manner and was leaving Trump reeling with his jabs on tax, covid and immigration.

Trump definitely tried to use the fake news angle on bringing up Hunter Biden and saying Joe was corrupt in his financial dealings which is clearly not the case. If there was real evidence the american public would know by now. There is also some other sideshow with some guy called Tony Bobulinski saying he has text messages. With a name like that most likely more russian disinformation.

Good win for Biden - should put him out of sight in this race.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 10:20:52 PM
I think people are putting too much store in early voting

There was always going to be a massive early vote this time because of the Covid situation

But whether it actually turns into a record turnout is very much open to question

It needs to be

The media have been doing what they love to do - paint any performance by Trump in which he doesn't come across as a total screaming lunatic - which he probably just about avoided doing last night - as "presidential" or some such nonsense

A lot of them are desperate for a close race

And I think they'll get it

Polls in Florida are razor tight and Arizona seems to be closing up too

If Florida falls for Trump it's likely that North Carolina will too - and I expect they will because the Republicans are expert at voter suppression in those states

That leaves the three mid-western states and there's no margin for error

I can't help but come back to hacking and vote falsification

It's going to decide it in Trump's favour
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on October 23, 2020, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 10:20:52 PM
I think people are putting too much store in early voting

There was always going to be a massive early vote this time because of the Covid situation

But whether it actually turns into a record turnout is very much open to question

It needs to be

The media have been doing what they love to do - paint any performance by Trump in which he doesn't come across as a total screaming lunatic - which he probably just about avoided doing last night - as "presidential" or some such nonsense

A lot of them are desperate for a close race

And I think they'll get it

Polls in Florida are razor tight and Arizona seems to be closing up too

If Florida falls for Trump it's likely that North Carolina will too - and I expect they will because the Republicans are expert at voter suppression in those states

That leaves the three mid-western states and there's no margin for error

I can't help but come back to hacking and vote falsification

It's going to decide it in Trump's favour

Not to mention the stolen supreme court seat for Coney Barrett. Democrats should have been putting a lot more pressure on Republican senators to rule her unfit for office, especially using the precedent of Garland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 23, 2020, 10:38:59 PM
Can anyone tell me the swing states that these elections usually depend upon? Florida must be one if it's mentioned so often. Pennsylvania? Arizona? What are the others?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 10:42:22 PM
Quote from: Roesider on October 23, 2020, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 10:20:52 PM
I think people are putting too much store in early voting

There was always going to be a massive early vote this time because of the Covid situation

But whether it actually turns into a record turnout is very much open to question

It needs to be

The media have been doing what they love to do - paint any performance by Trump in which he doesn't come across as a total screaming lunatic - which he probably just about avoided doing last night - as "presidential" or some such nonsense

A lot of them are desperate for a close race

And I think they'll get it

Polls in Florida are razor tight and Arizona seems to be closing up too

If Florida falls for Trump it's likely that North Carolina will too - and I expect they will because the Republicans are expert at voter suppression in those states

That leaves the three mid-western states and there's no margin for error

I can't help but come back to hacking and vote falsification

It's going to decide it in Trump's favour

Not to mention the stolen supreme court seat for Coney Barrett. Democrats should have been putting a lot more pressure on Republican senators to rule her unfit for office, especially using the precedent of Garland.

When Trump ludicrously claims the Democrats are planning to rig the election against him, it's obvious projection - as that's what he's planning to do

Yet the Democrats fall straight into the trap and say that the election isn't rigged and that they'll accept the results whatever happens

When they are likely going to be the victims of rigging, as they probably were in 2016

The Democrats, as on so many other things, just gave up on Coney Barrett hoping for "impeachment at the ballot box" (there's no such thing)

Pelosi and Schumer really need to go and make way for younger, more progressive people

If Biden does get in, it needs to be all out war for four years, the American right-wing needs to be destroyed, expansion of the Supreme Court should only be a starting point

It won't happen though, the Democratic establishment still don't know the utter menace they're dealing with



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 23, 2020, 10:38:59 PM
Can anyone tell me the swing states that these elections usually depend upon? Florida must be one if it's mentioned so often. Pennsylvania? Arizona? What are the others?

Florida, Pennsylvania,  Ohio, Iowa, Wisconsin,  Arizona,  North Carolina,  Michigan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 10:55:20 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 23, 2020, 10:38:59 PM
Can anyone tell me the swing states that these elections usually depend upon? Florida must be one if it's mentioned so often. Pennsylvania? Arizona? What are the others?
Biden needs to gain Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin and hold onto every other state Clinton won in 2016

These three are the absolute core targets

If he achieves the above, he wins

It's hard to see Trump gain any states he lost in 2016 - Nevada, Minnesota and New Hampshire look to be the only three he has an outside chance in but on all known form and polling, Biden wins them

Biden is pushing very hard in Arizona, Florida, North Carolina and Ohio - but he could easily draw a blank in all four - expect serious shenanigans in all four - there always is

He's pushing hard in Texas, Georgia and Iowa but it's hard to see him actually win any of these

All the other states look fait accomplis

This is a good site as regards permutations

https://www.270towin.com/





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 25, 2020, 12:29:59 AM
I watched the Trump doco on BBC... it's amazing the amount of crazy shit we've forgotten because it's just so normal!!

Remember paying off the pornstar?? Siding with Putin rather than his intelligence services?? Wanting to buy Greenland??

The documentary is very good btw Bannon is a piece of shit hopefully he gets locked up for fraud!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 25, 2020, 09:39:13 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2020, 12:29:59 AM
I watched the Trump doco on BBC... it's amazing the amount of crazy shit we've forgotten because it's just so normal!!

Remember paying off the pornstar?? Siding with Putin rather than his intelligence services?? Wanting to buy Greenland??

The documentary is very good btw Bannon is a piece of shit hopefully he gets locked up for fraud!!

It's ridiculous that Bannon is still peddling lies and propaganda while out on bail. He's extremely dangerous. He's obviously hoping trump will win and give him a pardon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 10:55:37 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there
There was talk of Hillary Clinton winning Texas and Georgia in 2016 too though

The thread below is why I don't expect Biden will win Texas or Florida or Georgia and probably Arizona this time either

And expect to hear a lot about "naked ballots" in Pennsylvania, also do not be surprised if the word "malware" is on everybody's lips in nine days' time

The bottom line is that if the election has any semblance of legitimacy, Biden will sweep it, the question is, will it have any semblance of legitimacy - turnout is vital as the higher the turnout, the harder it is for Republicans to steal the election

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1320405722413215744.html

(5/18) Increasingly, this election is coming down to the simple question of how effective 40 years of concerted Republican voter suppression efforts will be. ...
(6/18) Their main strategy, particularly since George and Jeb Bush got together in 2000 to use a Texas felon list to purge 90,000 Black people off voting roles in Florida, has been removing the names of people who are legitimate voters. ...
(7/18) Those people then go to the polls and are given "provisional ballots" which, in most cases, are only counted if there's a lawsuit. ...
(8/18) They think they voted, they tell pollsters they voted, but their votes don't get counted. ...
(9/18) Back in 2004, fully 22 states experienced what has now come to be called "red shift"—where the exit polls are "wrong" but almost always in a way that benefits Republicans. ...
(10/18) For example, in the 2016 election, the exit polls showed Hillary Clinton carrying Florida by 47.7 percent to Trump's 46.4 percent, although the "actual" counted vote had Trump winning by 49.0 percent to 47.8 percent. Trump gained 2.5 percentage points . . . somehow. ...
(11/18) In North Carolina, exit polls showed Clinton winning 48.6 percent to 46.5 percent, but the votes that were counted turned out with Trump's 49.9 to Clinton's 46.1, a red shift of 5.9 percentage points for the GOP. ...
(12/18) Pennsylvania's exit polls showed that Clinton won 50.5 percent to Trump's 46.1 percent, but when "eligible" votes were counted, Trump carried the state 48.8 percent to Clinton's 47.6 percent—a red shift of 5.6 percentage points. ...
(13/18) In Wisconsin, it was Clinton beating Trump in the exit polls 48.2 percent to 44.3 percent, but the "real" count put Trump over the top at 48.8 percent to 47.6 percent, a red shift of 5.1 percentage points. ...
(14/18) Just these differences, reflecting thousands of people who showed up, voted, and didn't realize their votes were never going to be counted because they had been purged from voting rolls prior to the election, handed the White House to Donald Trump. ...
(15/18) Perhaps even more interesting, in states without a Republican secretary of state, there is virtually no shift at all, either red or blue, and hasn't been ever. The election results typically comport with the exit polls in blue states. ...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 26, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there

Can't see it with Texas.

538 have Pennsylvania as one in three chance of being the decisive state. That could mean we're all sitting waiting for a few days as PA counts the mail-in ballots and Trump scream bloody murder about supposed fraud while he claims victory.

They have Wisconsin and Florida each having a 1/8 chance of being the tipping point.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:52:19 PM
who was the last president to only get 4 years?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 26, 2020, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:52:19 PM
who was the last president to only get 4 years?

Bush Sr.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 26, 2020, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:52:19 PM
who was the last president to only get 4 years?

Bush Sr.

So it doesn't happen that much, maybe Carter before him?  generally it comes about when the economy has crashed or there has been a big scandal, or pure incompetence ..

Will the voters who have voiced their annoyance of Trump just secretly vote him in at the ballot box?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there

Can't see it with Texas.

538 have Pennsylvania as one in three chance of being the decisive state. That could mean we're all sitting waiting for a few days as PA counts the mail-in ballots and Trump scream bloody murder about supposed fraud while he claims victory.

They have Wisconsin and Florida each having a 1/8 chance of being the tipping point.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/)

Ironic considering some anti Trump supporters have said he can only win by fraud.

So it looks like no matter which side wins the other will claim fraud  :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 26, 2020, 01:39:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dec on October 26, 2020, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:52:19 PM
who was the last president to only get 4 years?

Bush Sr.

So it doesn't happen that much, maybe Carter before him?  generally it comes about when the economy has crashed or there has been a big scandal, or pure incompetence ..

Will the voters who have voiced their annoyance of Trump just secretly vote him in at the ballot box?

since 1952 the parties have mostly alternated 2 term presidencies except for the period around Reagan

52,56 Rep
60,64 Dem
68,72 Rep

76, Dem
80,84,88 Rep

92,96 Dem
00,04 Rep
08,12 Dem

16     Rep
20     ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
Surely the dems can't win texas, can they? That would be the biggest story of the night regardless of what else happens.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there

Can't see it with Texas.

538 have Pennsylvania as one in three chance of being the decisive state. That could mean we're all sitting waiting for a few days as PA counts the mail-in ballots and Trump scream bloody murder about supposed fraud while he claims victory.

They have Wisconsin and Florida each having a 1/8 chance of being the tipping point.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/)

Ironic considering some anti Trump supporters have said he can only win by fraud.

So it looks like no matter which side wins the other will claim fraud  :-\
Yes but Trump has zero evidence and zero reason to claim fraud by Democrats whereas Democrats have every reason to fear fraud by Republicans and then some

It's yet another "big lie", in Goebbelsian terminology

Trump claiming fraud is projection - falsely accuse others of that what you plan to carry out yourself


The threat of fraud comes from only one side - the Republicans, and that threat is front and centre, the red warning lights are flashing furiously

It's also a trap - which the Democrats, being appalling at strategy, fall straight into

Because Trump falsely claims fraud, the Democrats then reflexively deny there will be fraud - but there will be  fraud - and the Democrats will be the victims, as they always are

Even after at last 20 years of this, there are still a lot of Democratic leaning commentators who haven't a clue what they're dealing with and are either gutless for the fight or have a deluded, fantastical view in the integrity of American institutions - the Irish based American commentator Larry Donnelly is an example of that - a clueless virgin who thinks the real world is an episode of the West Wing

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 02:10:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
Surely the dems can't win texas, can they? That would be the biggest story of the night regardless of what else happens.
If the election was carried out in the manner that elections happen in Ireland or the UK, ie. under a system which is not set up to disenfranchise people, the Democrats could and likely would win Texas

They would certainly win Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 26, 2020, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there

Can't see it with Texas.

538 have Pennsylvania as one in three chance of being the decisive state. That could mean we're all sitting waiting for a few days as PA counts the mail-in ballots and Trump scream bloody murder about supposed fraud while he claims victory.

They have Wisconsin and Florida each having a 1/8 chance of being the tipping point.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/)

Ironic considering some anti Trump supporters have said he can only win by fraud.

So it looks like no matter which side wins the other will claim fraud  :-\

Nothing ironic about. Trump is trying to game the system beforehand by setting up a false narrative about fraud and how the election MUST be called on the night of November 3rd. He has explicitly said that the only way he will lose is if the election is fraudulent.

Have you heard anything like that from Biden?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there

Can't see it with Texas.

538 have Pennsylvania as one in three chance of being the decisive state. That could mean we're all sitting waiting for a few days as PA counts the mail-in ballots and Trump scream bloody murder about supposed fraud while he claims victory.

They have Wisconsin and Florida each having a 1/8 chance of being the tipping point.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/)

Ironic considering some anti Trump supporters have said he can only win by fraud.

So it looks like no matter which side wins the other will claim fraud  :-\

Nothing ironic about. Trump is trying to game the system beforehand by setting up a false narrative about fraud and how the election MUST be called on the night of November 3rd. He has explicitly said that the only way he will lose is if the election is fraudulent.

Have you heard anything like that from Biden?

I didnt say Biden said it.

They is one very vocal poster claiming if Trump wins its fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 03:04:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there

Can't see it with Texas.

538 have Pennsylvania as one in three chance of being the decisive state. That could mean we're all sitting waiting for a few days as PA counts the mail-in ballots and Trump scream bloody murder about supposed fraud while he claims victory.

They have Wisconsin and Florida each having a 1/8 chance of being the tipping point.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/)

Ironic considering some anti Trump supporters have said he can only win by fraud.

So it looks like no matter which side wins the other will claim fraud  :-\

Nothing ironic about. Trump is trying to game the system beforehand by setting up a false narrative about fraud and how the election MUST be called on the night of November 3rd. He has explicitly said that the only way he will lose is if the election is fraudulent.

Have you heard anything like that from Biden?

I didnt say Biden said it.

They is one very vocal poster claiming if Trump wins its fraud.

Trump says that Biden cannot win other than by fraud

Which is obviously bunkum, as he knows full well himself, because the polls show that Biden is miles ahead and has consistently been so since Trump v Biden match ups started being polled

There is no reason at all to think that Trump can "win" by any means other than outright fraud

He can't

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 03:04:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there

Can't see it with Texas.

538 have Pennsylvania as one in three chance of being the decisive state. That could mean we're all sitting waiting for a few days as PA counts the mail-in ballots and Trump scream bloody murder about supposed fraud while he claims victory.

They have Wisconsin and Florida each having a 1/8 chance of being the tipping point.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/)

Ironic considering some anti Trump supporters have said he can only win by fraud.

So it looks like no matter which side wins the other will claim fraud  :-\

Nothing ironic about. Trump is trying to game the system beforehand by setting up a false narrative about fraud and how the election MUST be called on the night of November 3rd. He has explicitly said that the only way he will lose is if the election is fraudulent.

Have you heard anything like that from Biden?

I didnt say Biden said it.

They is one very vocal poster claiming if Trump wins its fraud.

Trump says that Biden cannot win other than by fraud

Which is obviously bunkum, as he knows full well himself, because the polls show that Biden is miles ahead and has consistently been so since Trump v Biden match ups started being polled

There is no reason at all to think that Trump can "win" by any means other than outright fraud

He can't

Has there been any recent cases of polls being inaccurate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 06:18:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 03:04:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there

Can't see it with Texas.

538 have Pennsylvania as one in three chance of being the decisive state. That could mean we're all sitting waiting for a few days as PA counts the mail-in ballots and Trump scream bloody murder about supposed fraud while he claims victory.

They have Wisconsin and Florida each having a 1/8 chance of being the tipping point.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/)

Ironic considering some anti Trump supporters have said he can only win by fraud.

So it looks like no matter which side wins the other will claim fraud  :-\

Nothing ironic about. Trump is trying to game the system beforehand by setting up a false narrative about fraud and how the election MUST be called on the night of November 3rd. He has explicitly said that the only way he will lose is if the election is fraudulent.

Have you heard anything like that from Biden?

I didnt say Biden said it.

They is one very vocal poster claiming if Trump wins its fraud.

Trump says that Biden cannot win other than by fraud

Which is obviously bunkum, as he knows full well himself, because the polls show that Biden is miles ahead and has consistently been so since Trump v Biden match ups started being polled

There is no reason at all to think that Trump can "win" by any means other than outright fraud

He can't

Has there been any recent cases of polls being inaccurate?
The national polls were not very inaccurate at all in 2016, they were pretty accurate

See above for why state polls may have appeared to be wildly inaccurate in certain swing states

They almost certainly weren't

I've no doubt polls this time are broadly accurate barring the nonsense of Trafalgar and Rasmussen, I also tend to shave a couple of points off Quinnipiac on the other side

Poll spreads are the most accurate gauge

I would say that by and large, pollsters would this time be making assumptions that favour Trump's poll numbers - based on the official results in 2016 - in a similar manner to how most UK pollsters adjusted towards the Tories in 2017 and missed just how close Labour were to the Tories - though they did all pick up the broad pattern of movement

It could be that the polls are underestimating Biden but even if they are that would likely be cancelled out in the swing states by voter suppression

I expect Biden to win by massive margins in the states where a Democratic victory is inevitable but that that swing will not be reflected in the official results in key swing states because of the voter suppression

Who controls the various Secretary of State positions as well as state Supreme courts now seems crucial





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 06:39:47 PM
Ah well there we have it.

If Trump wins its because there was fraud.

If Biden wins its because there was no fraud.

And this is because Biden supporters say so.

;D  ;D
Priceless

I dearly hope the US elect someone that will get the country back into some sort of stability however it would be hilarious (if it wasnt so serious) to watch the lads here frothing at the mouth if Biden doesnt win.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 26, 2020, 06:45:40 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Some talk of Biden being on track to edge Texas.

If (still a big if) he does the game is up for Trump. Adding 38 electoral college votes there surely makes it impossible for a democrat to lose?

Expect Trump to hammer down on Biden's oil comments. Maybe those with their heads in the Texan sand might find more oil when they are down there

Can't see it with Texas.

538 have Pennsylvania as one in three chance of being the decisive state. That could mean we're all sitting waiting for a few days as PA counts the mail-in ballots and Trump scream bloody murder about supposed fraud while he claims victory.

They have Wisconsin and Florida each having a 1/8 chance of being the tipping point.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/)

Ironic considering some anti Trump supporters have said he can only win by fraud.

So it looks like no matter which side wins the other will claim fraud  :-\

Nothing ironic about. Trump is trying to game the system beforehand by setting up a false narrative about fraud and how the election MUST be called on the night of November 3rd. He has explicitly said that the only way he will lose is if the election is fraudulent.

Have you heard anything like that from Biden?

I didnt say Biden said it.

They is one very vocal poster claiming if Trump wins its fraud.

So you've gone from "one side" to a single poster?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 06:49:23 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 06:39:47 PM
Ah well there we have it.

If Trump wins its because there was fraud.

If Biden wins its because there was no fraud.

And this is because Biden supporters say so.

;D  ;D
Priceless

I dearly hope the US elect someone that will get the country back into some sort of stability however it would be hilarious (if it wasnt so serious) to watch the lads here frothing at the mouth if Biden doesnt win.
Anybody who is looking with the situation with any degree of honesty will come to the same conclusion - that Trump cannot win without fraud

Indeed it's the conclusion the Republicans themselves, Trump included, came to a long time ago which is why they invest so much into voter suppression

Trump says Republicans would 'never' be elected again if it was easier to vote

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus

I think it says a lot about somebody if they think it's "hilarious" that a regime which runs on pure hatred against racial and ethnic minorities, women, and gender or sexual minorities as its core defining principle, might retain power through fraud

It also absolutely bears out what I say about sadism being an integral part of Trumpism

He brings out the very worst aspects of humanity in his supporters and sympathisers, as is demonstrated on this forum

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 07:11:10 PM
Donald Trump can win without fraud.

Joe Biden can win without fraud.

The polls tell us this, Trump has about a 15% chance of winning. Can people please stop saying X can't win without fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 07:11:10 PM
Donald Trump can win without fraud.

Joe Biden can win without fraud.

The polls tell us this, Trump has about a 15% chance of winning. Can people please stop saying X can't win without fraud.
I suppose Trump can win without fraud in the same way that Leitrim can win the All-Ireland this year

Even Trump knows that himself

Trump has not even campaigned for the votes of anybody outside his base, he has run the worst "campaign" of any politician I have ever seen, and his base is way too small to win

His sole reason for campaigning is to whip them into a frenzy so they come out and cause chaos from the night of November 3rd onwards

That chaos is what Trump is relying on so mail in votes never get counted

There's a reason why Trump is demanding the election is called on the night of the 3rd

It's because he can't win if all the votes are counted

And everybody knows this, most of all Trump

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 07:33:21 PM
6/4 is a decent price for Trump..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 07:46:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 07:33:21 PM
6/4 is a decent price for Trump..
Roy Cohn had a saying: "I don't want to know what the law is. I want to know who the judge is."

There's a reason Cyprus always give douze points to Greece in the Eurovision

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 26, 2020, 08:52:47 PM
National polls utterly pointless in the US presidential election.

Polls in the swing states should be the only polls commented on and discussed. Albeit, like all opinion polls, need to be heavily asterisked (if that's a word!)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 09:59:36 PM
I think one of the good things about Biden is that he is remarkable at being a man of the people and resonating with middle class voters

He comes across as human

His gaffes - as much as we make fun of them - to a certain extent they make him look human

He's funny and likeable and can resonate with the middle class and working class, he really can speak to the average, everyday American

Whereas Trump just comes across as an out of touch, wealthy tycoon

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2020, 01:21:28 AM
Congratulations to Justice Barrett.

3 SJ judges in 4 years.....that's some accomplishment by Mr Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 27, 2020, 03:51:03 AM
An accomplishment by Trump but I think you would call it packing the court if the Dems did it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 27, 2020, 03:51:03 AM
An accomplishment by Trump but I think you would call it packing the court if the Dems did it.

I'm in the record as saying Garland should have been confirmed under Pres Obama

So Biden and Schumer were both on the record as saying that no judge should be confirmed in an election year.

Then when a vacancy occurred under Obama (upon the death of Scalia), they abruptly changed their tune and said that Obama should fill a spot in an election year

The Republicans in 2016 said that no....you shouldn't fill a seat in an election year and blocked Garland. Then when RBG died they abruptly changed course and confirmed Barrett a week before an election

So again, hypocrisy on both sides....just the Republicans managed to pull it off.

I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 10:06:03 AM
I see Judge Kavanaugh, along with Judge Gorsuch, is now saying that counting the remaining votes in Wisconsin or Michigan or Pennsylvania or Florida etc. from midnight on November 4th onwards would give the impression of impropriety

The ramifications are for democracy are terrifying

There are reasons why there was such money behind Coney Barrett and Kavanaugh's nominations and that money is expected to be paid back in the form of decisions which will deny democracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 27, 2020, 10:30:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 27, 2020, 03:51:03 AM
An accomplishment by Trump but I think you would call it packing the court if the Dems did it.

I'm in the record as saying Garland should have been confirmed under Pres Obama

So Biden and Schumer were both on the record as saying that no judge should be confirmed in an election year.

Then when a vacancy occurred under Obama (upon the death of Scalia), they abruptly changed their tune and said that Obama should fill a spot in an election year

The Republicans in 2016 said that no....you shouldn't fill a seat in an election year and blocked Garland. Then when RBG died they abruptly changed course and confirmed Barrett a week before an election

So again, hypocrisy on both sides....just the Republicans managed to pull it off.

I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)
When did you go on record that Garland should have been confirmed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)

So when the Dems win the House, Senate and Presidency and stick 4 new, liberal justices on the court by the end of February, it'll not be court packing, it'll be the legitimate consequences of elections. Cool.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)

So when the Dems win the House, Senate and Presidency and stick 4 new, liberal justices on the court by the end of February, it'll not be court packing, it'll be the legitimate consequences of elections. Cool.

No it will be court packing because that would involve  increasing the number of justices.....that's the definition of court packing!

If the electorate give the Democrats victories in all three branches, then the ball is in their court and they would be perfectly be within their rights to increase the number of justices. I mightn't like it, but at the end of the day it has next to zero impact on me personally so I don't care one way or the other
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2020, 11:41:47 AM
The Dems won't pack the court.

If they do, then they'll get wiped out in the mid-terms and the Republicans will just pack it some more next time they're in the White House. Where does it end?

They should look at changing the constitution or whatever it is that gives federal judges lifetime appointments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)

So when the Dems win the House, Senate and Presidency and stick 4 new, liberal justices on the court by the end of February, it'll not be court packing, it'll be the legitimate consequences of elections. Cool.

No it will be court packing because that would involve  increasing the number of justices.....that's the definition of court packing!

If the electorate give the Democrats victories in all three branches, then the ball is in their court and they would be perfectly be within their rights to increase the number of justices. I mightn't like it, but at the end of the day it has next to zero impact on me personally so I don't care one way or the other

Have you not repeatedly stated that one reason you liked Trump being president was his effect on the Supreme Court?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)

So when the Dems win the House, Senate and Presidency and stick 4 new, liberal justices on the court by the end of February, it'll not be court packing, it'll be the legitimate consequences of elections. Cool.

No it will be court packing because that would involve  increasing the number of justices.....that's the definition of court packing!

If the electorate give the Democrats victories in all three branches, then the ball is in their court and they would be perfectly be within their rights to increase the number of justices. I mightn't like it, but at the end of the day it has next to zero impact on me personally so I don't care one way or the other

Have you not repeatedly stated that one reason you liked Trump being president was his effect on the Supreme Court?

It gives me great satisfaction to see the reaction of people like Sid but personally I have come to the conclusion that it essentially has no impact on me. What's going to happen is going to happen. I'm just head down making as much money as I can to worry about it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 12:12:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2020, 11:41:47 AM
The Dems won't pack the court.

If they do, then they'll get wiped out in the mid-terms and the Republicans will just pack it some more next time they're in the White House. Where does it end?

They should look at changing the constitution or whatever it is that gives federal judges lifetime appointments.
They absolutely should

Republicans can't win presidential elections without fraud and the main way you perpetuate that is by having a bought and paid for Supreme Court who are also intent on perpetuating election fraud - as the current one most certainly is

The US currently has a situation which is not very dissimilar to Hungary or even Belarus

As a "democracy" it's the pits

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 12:24:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)

So when the Dems win the House, Senate and Presidency and stick 4 new, liberal justices on the court by the end of February, it'll not be court packing, it'll be the legitimate consequences of elections. Cool.

No it will be court packing because that would involve  increasing the number of justices.....that's the definition of court packing!

If the electorate give the Democrats victories in all three branches, then the ball is in their court and they would be perfectly be within their rights to increase the number of justices. I mightn't like it, but at the end of the day it has next to zero impact on me personally so I don't care one way or the other

No, as you said, it would be the consequences of elections. Voters would knowingly give them that power.

The court doesn't have to be 9. There's nowhere in the Constitution or any legislation that sets it. They'd simply be exercising their democratic right
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2020, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 12:24:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)

So when the Dems win the House, Senate and Presidency and stick 4 new, liberal justices on the court by the end of February, it'll not be court packing, it'll be the legitimate consequences of elections. Cool.

No it will be court packing because that would involve  increasing the number of justices.....that's the definition of court packing!

If the electorate give the Democrats victories in all three branches, then the ball is in their court and they would be perfectly be within their rights to increase the number of justices. I mightn't like it, but at the end of the day it has next to zero impact on me personally so I don't care one way or the other

No, as you said, it would be the consequences of elections. Voters would knowingly give them that power.

The court doesn't have to be 9. There's nowhere in the Constitution or any legislation that sets it. They'd simply be exercising their democratic right

Look up the definition of court packing

If you want to redefine it to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 12:35:07 PM
You define it for me there chief,  it's not something I've found in the OED.

While you're at it, explain where you've sourced it and how republicans forcing through ACB against the exact precedent they set four years ago, doesn't meet that definition.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2020, 12:44:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 12:35:07 PM
You define it for me there chief,  it's not something I've found in the OED.

While you're at it, explain where you've sourced it and how republicans forcing through ACB against the exact precedent they set four years ago, doesn't meet that definition.

LOL....call it whatever you want if it makes you feel better (but it's not court packing)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 27, 2020, 12:46:25 PM
You really need a dictionary to tell the difference between filling a court vacancy and increasing the number of judges on the court?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 01:00:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)

So when the Dems win the House, Senate and Presidency and stick 4 new, liberal justices on the court by the end of February, it'll not be court packing, it'll be the legitimate consequences of elections. Cool.

No it will be court packing because that would involve  increasing the number of justices.....that's the definition of court packing!

If the electorate give the Democrats victories in all three branches, then the ball is in their court and they would be perfectly be within their rights to increase the number of justices. I mightn't like it, but at the end of the day it has next to zero impact on me personally so I don't care one way or the other

Have you not repeatedly stated that one reason you liked Trump being president was his effect on the Supreme Court?

It gives me great satisfaction to see the reaction of people like Sid but personally I have come to the conclusion that it essentially has no impact on me. What's going to happen is going to happen. I'm just head down making as much money as I can to worry about it

The American dream
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 27, 2020, 12:46:25 PM
You really need a dictionary to tell the difference between filling a court vacancy and increasing the number of judges on the court?

When the people making the rules change them to suit only their agenda? Yes, absolutely.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 27, 2020, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 27, 2020, 12:46:25 PM
You really need a dictionary to tell the difference between filling a court vacancy and increasing the number of judges on the court?

When the people making the rules change them to suit only their agenda? Yes, absolutely.

Where exactly did "the rules" change? And where's the connection with you needing a dictionary?

Think about it, if you have an empty chair in a room, putting someone sitting in that chair is not packing the room.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 04:54:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 27, 2020, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: five points on October 27, 2020, 12:46:25 PM
You really need a dictionary to tell the difference between filling a court vacancy and increasing the number of judges on the court?

When the people making the rules change them to suit only their agenda? Yes, absolutely.

Where exactly did "the rules" change? And where's the connection with you needing a dictionary?

Think about it, if you have an empty chair in a room, putting someone sitting in that chair is not packing the room.

When you establish the rules about how that chair can be filled, and then proceed to fill it in direct contravention of your own rules, then yes, it is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 27, 2020, 05:04:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 04:54:43 PM

When you establish the rules about how that chair can be filled, and then proceed to fill it in direct contravention of your own rules, then yes, it is.

Which "rules" exactly?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 27, 2020, 05:19:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 27, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)

So when the Dems win the House, Senate and Presidency and stick 4 new, liberal justices on the court by the end of February, it'll not be court packing, it'll be the legitimate consequences of elections. Cool.

No it will be court packing because that would involve  increasing the number of justices.....that's the definition of court packing!

If the electorate give the Democrats victories in all three branches, then the ball is in their court and they would be perfectly be within their rights to increase the number of justices. I mightn't like it, but at the end of the day it has next to zero impact on me personally so I don't care one way or the other

Have you not repeatedly stated that one reason you liked Trump being president was his effect on the Supreme Court?

It gives me great satisfaction to see the reaction of people like Sid but personally I have come to the conclusion that it essentially has no impact on me. What's going to happen is going to happen. I'm just head down making as much money as I can to worry about it

What about all of those it WILL impact?

What's going to happen with gay marriage? Environmental concerns? Those with pre-existing conditions looking for health insurance? Those who are becoming increasingly powerless to get justice in the face of the might of corporate America?

And if the Supreme Court suddenly doesn't matter to you, why the vote for Trump?

Is THAT just to stick it to libs like Sid also?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 27, 2020, 06:21:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 27, 2020, 06:58:05 AM
Quote from: omochain on October 27, 2020, 03:51:03 AM
An accomplishment by Trump but I think you would call it packing the court if the Dems did it.

I'm in the record as saying Garland should have been confirmed under Pres Obama

So Biden and Schumer were both on the record as saying that no judge should be confirmed in an election year.

Then when a vacancy occurred under Obama (upon the death of Scalia), they abruptly changed their tune and said that Obama should fill a spot in an election year

The Republicans in 2016 said that no....you shouldn't fill a seat in an election year and blocked Garland. Then when RBG died they abruptly changed course and confirmed Barrett a week before an election

So again, hypocrisy on both sides....just the Republicans managed to pull it off.

I wouldn't call it packing the court....elections have consequences and the Republicans had the votes to both block Garland and confirm Barrett

If the shoe was on the other foot the Democrats would have done exactly the same (and if you are in any doubt as to their willingness to play dirty just look at their their disgracefultreatment of Justice Kavanaugh)

It's a wee bit more nuanced than that... https://www.politifact.com/article/2016/mar/17/context-biden-rule-supreme-court-nominations/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 06:34:21 PM
Quote from: five points on October 27, 2020, 05:04:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 04:54:43 PM

When you establish the rules about how that chair can be filled, and then proceed to fill it in direct contravention of your own rules, then yes, it is.

Which "rules" exactly?

The ones that Lindsey Graham proudly announced could be turned against him if he went against him.

Take it up with him when there are 4 complete constitutionally appointed new liberal justices on the bench next year. He'll be out of a job, so he'll have plenty of time to chat with you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 07:06:21 PM
https://twitter.com/ElieNYC/status/1321165074678112259

This seems like a good day to remind people that after Brett Kavanaugh was credibly accused of attempted rape he vowed to enact political retribution against Democrats for not believing his childhood calendar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 27, 2020, 07:17:36 PM
A 47 year old female being sworn in by an African American  isn't this what liberals want all over society ? opportunities for everyone the American dream .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 08:21:27 PM
Tremendous fun on Channel 4 News this evening as a young woman in rural Pennsylvania tells Matt Frei that if Trump loses, she's moving to Canada

Frei didn't tell her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on October 27, 2020, 11:56:28 PM
If the election was held today Biden takes PA, WIS and MIC and Florida is a 50/50 so he could take that too. Would take a (not substantial) change of heart among voters in the first 3 states to get Trump back in but their seems to no floating voters around and battle lines seem firmly drawn.

As an congenial, old, white man Biden fits comfortably into what the lake states think a president should be. So he has the edge on Trump. If Biden couldn't win the home state of PA either then the Democrats are fucked everywhere, not just in the presidency.

Gut tells me Biden will take PA, WIS, MIC and FL (maybe after a delay) in polling but no others. Hopefully this will allow the EU to pull the ladder up on the those Brexiteers c***ts in the Brexit talks. Where I in Barnier shoes I'd call their bluff and I'd publicly tell let the Brits know the EU are offering no concessions and they can suck it up or f**k off into the international wilderness now that their pal Donald isn't around to rattle a sabre for them. It would give me the greatest pleasure to see those sneering pricks Gove, Frost and Cummings grovelling at the EU's feet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 12:12:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 27, 2020, 07:17:36 PM
A 47 year old female being sworn in by an African American  isn't this what liberals want all over society ? opportunities for everyone the American dream .

As she was involved in that maskless Covid fest in the White House, she is obviously not person of good judgement and so not fit to be judge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 28, 2020, 12:33:02 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 06:34:21 PM
Quote from: five points on October 27, 2020, 05:04:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 04:54:43 PM

When you establish the rules about how that chair can be filled, and then proceed to fill it in direct contravention of your own rules, then yes, it is.

Which "rules" exactly?

The ones that Lindsey Graham proudly announced could be turned against him if he went against him.

Take it up with him when there are 4 complete constitutionally appointed new liberal justices on the bench next year. He'll be out of a job, so he'll have plenty of time to chat with you.

If only.  In my 25 years here, the Democrats have never shown themselves to have the kind of "f**k you, you can't stop us, so we're doing it" approach that McConnell, and before him Gingrich, exemplify. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 28, 2020, 01:11:34 AM
Just saw a little bit of Tucker's interview with tony bobulinski , seems joe is compromised very badly .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 28, 2020, 05:29:44 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 28, 2020, 01:11:34 AM
Just saw a little bit of Tucker's interview with tony bobulinski , seems joe is compromised very badly .

Nobody cares... not even Ted Cruz.
You need to step out of your Tucker bubble and go for a walk on the Baylands. The air might be a bit iffy at the moment but the view is still good and it can be a perspective altering experience.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 07:21:08 AM
Compromised how, exactly?

Is Biden up to his ears in debt to who knows who like Trump is?

I'm more concerned about the White House official statement that they've "ended" the COVID pandemic, right as cases are sky rocketing again. Talk about gaslighting!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 10:23:35 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 06:34:21 PM
Quote from: five points on October 27, 2020, 05:04:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 27, 2020, 04:54:43 PM

When you establish the rules about how that chair can be filled, and then proceed to fill it in direct contravention of your own rules, then yes, it is.

Which "rules" exactly?

The ones that Lindsey Graham proudly announced could be turned against him if he went against him.


You're mixing up rules (the law of the land) with operational procedures that can be varied according to the will of the Senate.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on October 28, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
No, I'm not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 28, 2020, 11:29:22 AM
I did a mock-up of the election result, leaning slightly to the Red in the very close battleground states to take some account of those who will vote Trump but are too embarrassed to admit it to a pollster, as follows.

Trump: Arizona (11), Florida (29), Georgia (16), Iowa (6), North Carolina (15), Ohio (18), Wisconsin (10)

Biden: Michigan (16), Minnesota (10), Nevada (6), New Hampshire (4)

I appreciate many of those are up for grabs and I haven't been overly scientific (and there might be other tights ones too), but they're my calls at the moment, with Wisconsin being the hardest call of the above for me.

I haven't called Pennsylvania (20), and the above leaves the score at Trump 260, Biden 258 - with the 20 from PA to decide who hits the magic 270 figure ..... (and even if I switched Wisconsin blue, my guesses would still leave Trump winning if he took PA).

I think Biden will definitely win the "popular vote" by more than Hillary did, but that won't guarantee winning the election.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 11:47:24 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 28, 2020, 11:29:22 AM
I did a mock-up of the election result, leaning slightly to the Red in the very close battleground states to take some account of those who will vote Trump but are too embarrassed to admit it to a pollster, as follows.

Trump: Arizona (11), Florida (29), Georgia (16), Iowa (6), North Carolina (15), Ohio (18), Wisconsin (10)

Biden: Michigan (16), Minnesota (10), Nevada (6), New Hampshire (4)

I appreciate many of those are up for grabs and I haven't been overly scientific (and there might be other tights ones too), but they're my calls at the moment, with Wisconsin being the hardest call of the above for me.

I haven't called Pennsylvania (20), and the above leaves the score at Trump 260, Biden 258 - with the 20 from PA to decide who hits the magic 270 figure ..... (and even if I switched Wisconsin blue, my guesses would still leave Trump winning if he took PA).

I think Biden will definitely win the "popular vote" by more than Hillary did, but that won't guarantee winning the election.

Yep, it very easily could come down to waiting a few days for PA, while Trump cries foul and fraud and incites trouble.

If only the PA GOP hadn't insisted on blocking the state from even processing, never mind counting, mail-in ballots before election day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?

Someone should tell Trump. He was equivocating yesterday in Michigan on whether the kidnapping plot was a bad thing or not.

(And I'm not sure what news you watch. This story has been all over the news in the states. However, given that we are counting the days until a historically important election and, well, you know, Trump and his multiple head-scratching stories per week, and also COVID, its never going to stay top of the headlines).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670


Quote
(And I'm not sure what news you watch. This story has been all over the news in the states. However, given that we are counting the days until a historically important election and, well, you know, Trump and his multiple head-scratching stories per week, and also COVID, its never going to stay top of the headlines).
Thanks for agreeing with me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670

You might want to read that piece again.

Looks like a description of bog-standard right wing, anti-government, ammosexual, militia guys to me.

Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
(And I'm not sure what news you watch. This story has been all over the news in the states. However, given that we are counting the days until a historically important election and, well, you know, Trump and his multiple head-scratching stories per week, and also COVID, its never going to stay top of the headlines).
Thanks for agreeing with me.

Come on now.

The point I was clearly making was that the news was NOT being suppressed or "dropped". Instead, we're living through a very active and quickly refreshing news cycle. What is headline news today will be page 5 tomorrow, unless seriously ground-shaking.

There is also the not-insignificant fact that any other president fomenting and equivocating on threats to the life of a governor would be massive, shocking news.

With Trump, its merely the latest in a litany of outrageous and thuggish statements and at this point elicits no more than a collective shrug, because tomorrow he'll have said something else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670

You might want to read that piece again.

Looks like a description of bog-standard right wing, anti-government, ammosexual, militia guys to me.

You too. Especially these bits.

"In a social profile verified by date of birth, Croft wore a tricorn hat and a sweatshirt with the insignia of the Three Percenters, an armed anti-government movement. "

"In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that "the enemy is government." Caserta recorded the video in front of an anarchist's flag and a map of Michigan. He did not post on YouTube again until three weeks ago. In that video, Caserta does not speak and simply loads and poses with a long gun while wearing a shirt that says "F--- The Government.""

Then check the definition of "anarchist".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670

You might want to read that piece again.

Looks like a description of bog-standard right wing, anti-government, ammosexual, militia guys to me.

You too. Especially these bits.

"In a social profile verified by date of birth, Croft wore a tricorn hat and a sweatshirt with the insignia of the Three Percenters, an armed anti-government movement. "

"In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that "the enemy is government." Caserta recorded the video in front of an anarchist's flag and a map of Michigan. He did not post on YouTube again until three weeks ago. In that video, Caserta does not speak and simply loads and poses with a long gun while wearing a shirt that says "F--- The Government.""

Then check the definition of "anarchist".

Are you're trying to make some sort of point based on the anarchist flag?  How about the trihorn hat and the 3 percenters shirt? Their ties to the so-called boogaloo boys?

These guys are stereotypical American, armed to the teeth, right-wing, anti-government militia morons.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670

You might want to read that piece again.

Looks like a description of bog-standard right wing, anti-government, ammosexual, militia guys to me.

You too. Especially these bits.

"In a social profile verified by date of birth, Croft wore a tricorn hat and a sweatshirt with the insignia of the Three Percenters, an armed anti-government movement. "

"In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that "the enemy is government." Caserta recorded the video in front of an anarchist's flag and a map of Michigan. He did not post on YouTube again until three weeks ago. In that video, Caserta does not speak and simply loads and poses with a long gun while wearing a shirt that says "F--- The Government.""

Then check the definition of "anarchist".

Are you're trying to make some sort of point based on the anarchist flag?  How about the trihorn hat and the 3 percenters shirt? Their ties to the so-called boogaloo boys?

These guys are stereotypical American, armed to the teeth, right-wing, anti-government militia morons.

anarchist noun

an·​ar·​chist | \ ˈa-nər-kist  , -ˌnär- \
Definition of anarchist
1: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2: a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy
especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670

You might want to read that piece again.

Looks like a description of bog-standard right wing, anti-government, ammosexual, militia guys to me.

You too. Especially these bits.

"In a social profile verified by date of birth, Croft wore a tricorn hat and a sweatshirt with the insignia of the Three Percenters, an armed anti-government movement. "

"In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that "the enemy is government." Caserta recorded the video in front of an anarchist's flag and a map of Michigan. He did not post on YouTube again until three weeks ago. In that video, Caserta does not speak and simply loads and poses with a long gun while wearing a shirt that says "F--- The Government.""

Then check the definition of "anarchist".

Are you're trying to make some sort of point based on the anarchist flag?  How about the trihorn hat and the 3 percenters shirt? Their ties to the so-called boogaloo boys?

These guys are stereotypical American, armed to the teeth, right-wing, anti-government militia morons.

anarchist noun

an·​ar·​chist | \ ˈa-nər-kist  , -ˌnär- \
Definition of anarchist
1: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2: a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy
especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order

Thanks.

I think we are all aware of what an anarchist is.

And I think most of us are equally aware that anarchist, in western society, is generally the label used for left-wing radicals driven by some kind of anti-capitalist zealotry.

Whereas the anti-government militias in the US are driven not by any anti-capitalist leanings, but by hatred of what they perceive to be a intruding and illegitimate federal government coming to take their guns or property away, among other things (some are simply racist and opposed to immigrants).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:12:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670

You might want to read that piece again.

Looks like a description of bog-standard right wing, anti-government, ammosexual, militia guys to me.

You too. Especially these bits.

"In a social profile verified by date of birth, Croft wore a tricorn hat and a sweatshirt with the insignia of the Three Percenters, an armed anti-government movement. "

"In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that "the enemy is government." Caserta recorded the video in front of an anarchist's flag and a map of Michigan. He did not post on YouTube again until three weeks ago. In that video, Caserta does not speak and simply loads and poses with a long gun while wearing a shirt that says "F--- The Government.""

Then check the definition of "anarchist".

Are you're trying to make some sort of point based on the anarchist flag?  How about the trihorn hat and the 3 percenters shirt? Their ties to the so-called boogaloo boys?

These guys are stereotypical American, armed to the teeth, right-wing, anti-government militia morons.

anarchist noun

an·​ar·​chist | \ ˈa-nər-kist  , -ˌnär- \
Definition of anarchist
1: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2: a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy
especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order

Thanks.

I think we are all aware of what an anarchist is.

And I think most of us are equally aware that anarchist, in western society, is generally the label used for left-wing radicals driven by some kind of anti-capitalist zealotry.

Yet the definition says otherwise.

And these geezers had an anarchist flag.

And how can someone be anti-government yet pro-President?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:19:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:12:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670

You might want to read that piece again.

Looks like a description of bog-standard right wing, anti-government, ammosexual, militia guys to me.

You too. Especially these bits.

"In a social profile verified by date of birth, Croft wore a tricorn hat and a sweatshirt with the insignia of the Three Percenters, an armed anti-government movement. "

"In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that "the enemy is government." Caserta recorded the video in front of an anarchist's flag and a map of Michigan. He did not post on YouTube again until three weeks ago. In that video, Caserta does not speak and simply loads and poses with a long gun while wearing a shirt that says "F--- The Government.""

Then check the definition of "anarchist".

Are you're trying to make some sort of point based on the anarchist flag?  How about the trihorn hat and the 3 percenters shirt? Their ties to the so-called boogaloo boys?

These guys are stereotypical American, armed to the teeth, right-wing, anti-government militia morons.

anarchist noun

an·​ar·​chist | \ ˈa-nər-kist  , -ˌnär- \
Definition of anarchist
1: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2: a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy
especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order

Thanks.

I think we are all aware of what an anarchist is.

And I think most of us are equally aware that anarchist, in western society, is generally the label used for left-wing radicals driven by some kind of anti-capitalist zealotry.

Yet the definition says otherwise.

And these geezers had an anarchist flag.

And how can someone be anti-government yet pro-President?

Given that the modern GOP and Trump himself are pretty anti-government, its not a big stretch.

Especially when said president and party has explicitly called for the "liberation" of Michigan and backed armed-to-the-teeth protestors taking over the state houses in the aftermath of the COVID lockdowns.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:20:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:19:06 PM

Given that the modern GOP and Trump himself are pretty anti-government, its not a big stretch.

Especially when said president and party has explicitly called for the "liberation" of Michigan and backed armed-to-the-teeth protestors taking over the state houses in the aftermath of the COVID lockdowns.

Hardly. How many public expenditure cuts have they implemented recently?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:20:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:19:06 PM

Given that the modern GOP and Trump himself are pretty anti-government, its not a big stretch.

Especially when said president and party has explicitly called for the "liberation" of Michigan and backed armed-to-the-teeth protestors taking over the state houses in the aftermath of the COVID lockdowns.

Hardly. How many public expenditure cuts have they implemented recently?

Its not just about cuts.

Its about regulations. Its about how the agencies enforce existing regulations and promulgate new ones. Its about whether certain agencies are even kept or staffed to address the issues for which they're responsible. Its about whether inexperienced but connected and ideologically-correct foxes are put in charge of hen houses in place of experienced career professionals, something that has really bitten the US in the arse this year. Its about whether US public lands are maintained for the common good or turned over in ultra-cheap leases to GOP donors to exploit and ruin for minerals or oil or grazing or whatever.

Specifically on cuts and spending, I'll grant you that in the last few years, the likes of Grover Norquist are not so relevant as they were under GW Bush or Paul Ryan. However, I guarantee you that if Biden wins, we'll suddenly start hearing again about the national debt and the deficit.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 28, 2020, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670

You might want to read that piece again.

Looks like a description of bog-standard right wing, anti-government, ammosexual, militia guys to me.

You too. Especially these bits.

"In a social profile verified by date of birth, Croft wore a tricorn hat and a sweatshirt with the insignia of the Three Percenters, an armed anti-government movement. "

"In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that "the enemy is government." Caserta recorded the video in front of an anarchist's flag and a map of Michigan. He did not post on YouTube again until three weeks ago. In that video, Caserta does not speak and simply loads and poses with a long gun while wearing a shirt that says "F--- The Government.""

Then check the definition of "anarchist".

Are you're trying to make some sort of point based on the anarchist flag?  How about the trihorn hat and the 3 percenters shirt? Their ties to the so-called boogaloo boys?

These guys are stereotypical American, armed to the teeth, right-wing, anti-government militia morons.

anarchist noun

an·​ar·​chist | \ ˈa-nər-kist  , -ˌnär- \
Definition of anarchist
1: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2: a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy
especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order

Thanks.

I think we are all aware of what an anarchist is.

And I think most of us are equally aware that anarchist, in western society, is generally the label used for left-wing radicals driven by some kind of anti-capitalist zealotry.

Whereas the anti-government militias in the US are driven not by any anti-capitalist leanings, but by hatred of what they perceive to be a intruding and illegitimate federal government coming to take their guns or property away, among other things (some are simply racist and opposed to immigrants).
whats the definition for the looters on the streets of Philadelphia ? Anti capitalism ? Criminals?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 28, 2020, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
I presume "gmac" hasn't condemned the right terrorists who were about to launch a "putsch" in Michican (or Minnesota?)

They were actually anarchists weren't they? (Which explains why the news channels soon dropped the story.)

So these militias as anarchists now?
Yes, apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670

You might want to read that piece again.

Looks like a description of bog-standard right wing, anti-government, ammosexual, militia guys to me.

You too. Especially these bits.

"In a social profile verified by date of birth, Croft wore a tricorn hat and a sweatshirt with the insignia of the Three Percenters, an armed anti-government movement. "

"In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that "the enemy is government." Caserta recorded the video in front of an anarchist's flag and a map of Michigan. He did not post on YouTube again until three weeks ago. In that video, Caserta does not speak and simply loads and poses with a long gun while wearing a shirt that says "F--- The Government.""

Then check the definition of "anarchist".

Are you're trying to make some sort of point based on the anarchist flag?  How about the trihorn hat and the 3 percenters shirt? Their ties to the so-called boogaloo boys?

These guys are stereotypical American, armed to the teeth, right-wing, anti-government militia morons.

anarchist noun

an·​ar·​chist | \ ˈa-nər-kist  , -ˌnär- \
Definition of anarchist
1: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2: a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy
especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order

Thanks.

I think we are all aware of what an anarchist is.

And I think most of us are equally aware that anarchist, in western society, is generally the label used for left-wing radicals driven by some kind of anti-capitalist zealotry.

Whereas the anti-government militias in the US are driven not by any anti-capitalist leanings, but by hatred of what they perceive to be a intruding and illegitimate federal government coming to take their guns or property away, among other things (some are simply racist and opposed to immigrants).
whats the definition for the looters on the streets of Philadelphia ? Anti capitalism ? Criminals?

Looting is a crime.

Anything else?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:40:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:20:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:19:06 PM

Given that the modern GOP and Trump himself are pretty anti-government, its not a big stretch.

Especially when said president and party has explicitly called for the "liberation" of Michigan and backed armed-to-the-teeth protestors taking over the state houses in the aftermath of the COVID lockdowns.

Hardly. How many public expenditure cuts have they implemented recently?

Its not just about cuts.

Its about regulations. Its about how the agencies enforce existing regulations and promulgate new ones. Its about whether certain agencies are even kept or staffed to address the issues for which they're responsible. Its about whether inexperienced but connected and ideologically-correct foxes are put in charge of hen houses in place of experienced career professionals, something that has really bitten the US in the arse this year. Its about whether US public lands are maintained for the common good or turned over in ultra-cheap leases to GOP donors to exploit and ruin for minerals or oil or grazing or whatever.

Specifically on cuts and spending, I'll grant you that in the last few years, the likes of Grover Norquist are not so relevant as they were under GW Bush or Paul Ryan. However, I guarantee you that if Biden wins, we'll suddenly start hearing again about the national debt and the deficit.
So anarchism is now about light-touch regulation and the fattening of GOP donors.  ::)  My sides.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:51:12 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:40:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:20:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:19:06 PM

Given that the modern GOP and Trump himself are pretty anti-government, its not a big stretch.

Especially when said president and party has explicitly called for the "liberation" of Michigan and backed armed-to-the-teeth protestors taking over the state houses in the aftermath of the COVID lockdowns.

Hardly. How many public expenditure cuts have they implemented recently?

Its not just about cuts.

Its about regulations. Its about how the agencies enforce existing regulations and promulgate new ones. Its about whether certain agencies are even kept or staffed to address the issues for which they're responsible. Its about whether inexperienced but connected and ideologically-correct foxes are put in charge of hen houses in place of experienced career professionals, something that has really bitten the US in the arse this year. Its about whether US public lands are maintained for the common good or turned over in ultra-cheap leases to GOP donors to exploit and ruin for minerals or oil or grazing or whatever.

Specifically on cuts and spending, I'll grant you that in the last few years, the likes of Grover Norquist are not so relevant as they were under GW Bush or Paul Ryan. However, I guarantee you that if Biden wins, we'll suddenly start hearing again about the national debt and the deficit.
So anarchism is now about light-touch regulation and the fattening of GOP donors.  ::)  My sides.

"Light-touch" regulation which allows wannabes to amass arsenals of military-grade weapons or means that the Endangered Species Act won't be used to infringe on their hunting or logging rights.

On the other hand, the Federal government, when it's in the hands of the commie Dems, might actually try to limit your access to an anti-aircraft missile launcher or, god forbid, even just make you undergo a background check before purchasing a weapon.

That is what motivates these idiots. What amounts to common sense rules and regulations in any other western society is the epitome of extreme government repression to them.

And now we have state governments shutting down businesses and making people wear masks!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 03:13:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:51:12 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:40:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:20:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:19:06 PM

Given that the modern GOP and Trump himself are pretty anti-government, its not a big stretch.

Especially when said president and party has explicitly called for the "liberation" of Michigan and backed armed-to-the-teeth protestors taking over the state houses in the aftermath of the COVID lockdowns.

Hardly. How many public expenditure cuts have they implemented recently?

Its not just about cuts.

Its about regulations. Its about how the agencies enforce existing regulations and promulgate new ones. Its about whether certain agencies are even kept or staffed to address the issues for which they're responsible. Its about whether inexperienced but connected and ideologically-correct foxes are put in charge of hen houses in place of experienced career professionals, something that has really bitten the US in the arse this year. Its about whether US public lands are maintained for the common good or turned over in ultra-cheap leases to GOP donors to exploit and ruin for minerals or oil or grazing or whatever.

Specifically on cuts and spending, I'll grant you that in the last few years, the likes of Grover Norquist are not so relevant as they were under GW Bush or Paul Ryan. However, I guarantee you that if Biden wins, we'll suddenly start hearing again about the national debt and the deficit.
So anarchism is now about light-touch regulation and the fattening of GOP donors.  ::)  My sides.

"Light-touch" regulation which allows wannabes to amass arsenals of military-grade weapons or means that the Endangered Species Act won't be used to infringe on their hunting or logging rights.

On the other hand, the Federal government, when it's in the hands of the commie Dems, might actually try to limit your access to an anti-aircraft missile launcher or, god forbid, even just make you undergo a background check before purchasing a weapon.

That is what motivates these idiots. What amounts to common sense rules and regulations in any other western society is the epitome of extreme government repression to them.

And now we have state governments shutting down businesses and making people wear masks!

Which pretty much defines them as anarchists, as I told you ages ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 03:23:53 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 03:13:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:51:12 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:40:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 02:20:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 02:19:06 PM

Given that the modern GOP and Trump himself are pretty anti-government, its not a big stretch.

Especially when said president and party has explicitly called for the "liberation" of Michigan and backed armed-to-the-teeth protestors taking over the state houses in the aftermath of the COVID lockdowns.

Hardly. How many public expenditure cuts have they implemented recently?

Its not just about cuts.

Its about regulations. Its about how the agencies enforce existing regulations and promulgate new ones. Its about whether certain agencies are even kept or staffed to address the issues for which they're responsible. Its about whether inexperienced but connected and ideologically-correct foxes are put in charge of hen houses in place of experienced career professionals, something that has really bitten the US in the arse this year. Its about whether US public lands are maintained for the common good or turned over in ultra-cheap leases to GOP donors to exploit and ruin for minerals or oil or grazing or whatever.

Specifically on cuts and spending, I'll grant you that in the last few years, the likes of Grover Norquist are not so relevant as they were under GW Bush or Paul Ryan. However, I guarantee you that if Biden wins, we'll suddenly start hearing again about the national debt and the deficit.
So anarchism is now about light-touch regulation and the fattening of GOP donors.  ::)  My sides.

"Light-touch" regulation which allows wannabes to amass arsenals of military-grade weapons or means that the Endangered Species Act won't be used to infringe on their hunting or logging rights.

On the other hand, the Federal government, when it's in the hands of the commie Dems, might actually try to limit your access to an anti-aircraft missile launcher or, god forbid, even just make you undergo a background check before purchasing a weapon.

That is what motivates these idiots. What amounts to common sense rules and regulations in any other western society is the epitome of extreme government repression to them.

And now we have state governments shutting down businesses and making people wear masks!

Which pretty much defines them as anarchists, as I told you ages ago.

So your original point was that US media is downplaying the far right militia kidnapping plot because the militias are anarchists?

You were not implying that there was some left wing bias at play on the part of the media?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on October 28, 2020, 03:26:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 03:23:53 PM

So your original point was that US media is downplaying the far right militia kidnapping plot because the militias are anarchists?
Yes.
Quote
You were not implying that there was some left wing bias at play on the part of the media?
That too. Many leftists see anarchism as cool.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 28, 2020, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 11:47:24 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 28, 2020, 11:29:22 AM
I did a mock-up of the election result, leaning slightly to the Red in the very close battleground states to take some account of those who will vote Trump but are too embarrassed to admit it to a pollster, as follows.

Trump: Arizona (11), Florida (29), Georgia (16), Iowa (6), North Carolina (15), Ohio (18), Wisconsin (10)

Biden: Michigan (16), Minnesota (10), Nevada (6), New Hampshire (4)

I appreciate many of those are up for grabs and I haven't been overly scientific (and there might be other tights ones too), but they're my calls at the moment, with Wisconsin being the hardest call of the above for me.

I haven't called Pennsylvania (20), and the above leaves the score at Trump 260, Biden 258 - with the 20 from PA to decide who hits the magic 270 figure ..... (and even if I switched Wisconsin blue, my guesses would still leave Trump winning if he took PA).

I think Biden will definitely win the "popular vote" by more than Hillary did, but that won't guarantee winning the election.

Yep, it very easily could come down to waiting a few days for PA, while Trump cries foul and fraud and incites trouble.

If only the PA GOP hadn't insisted on blocking the state from even processing, never mind counting, mail-in ballots before election day.

The shy Trump voter is a invented now debunked theory as a reason to explain not fully accurate 2016 polls.
And Biden is ahead in the polls in Wisconsin by >10%     
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: five points on October 28, 2020, 03:26:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 03:23:53 PM

So your original point was that US media is downplaying the far right militia kidnapping plot because the militias are anarchists?
Yes.
Quote
You were not implying that there was some left wing bias at play on the part of the media?
That too. Many leftists see anarchism as cool.

I assure you there are probably not many leftists who see these roided-up, wannabe-mercenary militias as cool.

Especially when the militias in turn despise everything that leftists and liberals represent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 03:34:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 28, 2020, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 11:47:24 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 28, 2020, 11:29:22 AM
I did a mock-up of the election result, leaning slightly to the Red in the very close battleground states to take some account of those who will vote Trump but are too embarrassed to admit it to a pollster, as follows.

Trump: Arizona (11), Florida (29), Georgia (16), Iowa (6), North Carolina (15), Ohio (18), Wisconsin (10)

Biden: Michigan (16), Minnesota (10), Nevada (6), New Hampshire (4)

I appreciate many of those are up for grabs and I haven't been overly scientific (and there might be other tights ones too), but they're my calls at the moment, with Wisconsin being the hardest call of the above for me.

I haven't called Pennsylvania (20), and the above leaves the score at Trump 260, Biden 258 - with the 20 from PA to decide who hits the magic 270 figure ..... (and even if I switched Wisconsin blue, my guesses would still leave Trump winning if he took PA).

I think Biden will definitely win the "popular vote" by more than Hillary did, but that won't guarantee winning the election.

Yep, it very easily could come down to waiting a few days for PA, while Trump cries foul and fraud and incites trouble.

If only the PA GOP hadn't insisted on blocking the state from even processing, never mind counting, mail-in ballots before election day.

The shy Trump voter is a invented now debunked theory as a reason to explain not fully accurate 2016 polls.
And Biden is ahead in the polls in Wisconsin by >10%   

I hope you are right.

I am very nervous about this.

This country is in for four very tough years if Trump wins.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 28, 2020, 04:04:26 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 28, 2020, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 11:47:24 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 28, 2020, 11:29:22 AM
I did a mock-up of the election result, leaning slightly to the Red in the very close battleground states to take some account of those who will vote Trump but are too embarrassed to admit it to a pollster, as follows.

Trump: Arizona (11), Florida (29), Georgia (16), Iowa (6), North Carolina (15), Ohio (18), Wisconsin (10)

Biden: Michigan (16), Minnesota (10), Nevada (6), New Hampshire (4)

I appreciate many of those are up for grabs and I haven't been overly scientific (and there might be other tights ones too), but they're my calls at the moment, with Wisconsin being the hardest call of the above for me.

I haven't called Pennsylvania (20), and the above leaves the score at Trump 260, Biden 258 - with the 20 from PA to decide who hits the magic 270 figure ..... (and even if I switched Wisconsin blue, my guesses would still leave Trump winning if he took PA).

I think Biden will definitely win the "popular vote" by more than Hillary did, but that won't guarantee winning the election.

Yep, it very easily could come down to waiting a few days for PA, while Trump cries foul and fraud and incites trouble.

If only the PA GOP hadn't insisted on blocking the state from even processing, never mind counting, mail-in ballots before election day.

The shy Trump voter is a invented now debunked theory as a reason to explain not fully accurate 2016 polls.
And Biden is ahead in the polls in Wisconsin by >10%   
Just my opinion. Perhaps you're right, but I don't quite believe they've been debunked based on working relationship I have with a number of Republicans in the US.

BBC says the latest "polling average" (Source: Real Clear Politics, Associated Press. Last updated: 27 October) for Wisconsin is 49.8% Biden, 44.3% Trump. So 3% swing on that and it stays red (Trump won WI with 47.2% last time).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 04:13:09 PM
The current Wisconsin poll spread is Biden 51.2 Trump 43.4

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 28, 2020, 04:13:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 03:34:30 PM

I am very nervous about this.

This country is in for four very tough years if Trump wins.
I agree that this is far from a forgone conclusion. But one of the really interesting things IF he loses will be what the Republicans will do next time. I'm convinced Trump will run again, so will the GOP get behind him or will leadership try and rally around someone a bit more decent?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2020, 04:30:54 PM
I'm worried about Pennsylvania. Biden's lead there is on a gentle downward slope. Come on Joe, only 6 days to go!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2020, 04:30:54 PM
I'm worried about Pennsylvania. Biden's lead there is on a gentle downward slope. Come on Joe, only 6 days to go!
I'm worried about Pennsylvania for other reasons, namely the courts

It seems to me there is a raft of terrible Republican pollsters desperately trying to portray that public opinion is split evenly or that Trump is ahead

If you want to steal the election, you need to have astro-turf pollsters to create the impression that the race is close or that Trump is ahead

These are Rasmussen (obviously), Trafalgar, Susquehanna and Insider Advantage, the latter two are polling for a right-wing rag called "American Greatness"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 28, 2020, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2020, 04:30:54 PM
I'm worried about Pennsylvania. Biden's lead there is on a gentle downward slope. Come on Joe, only 6 days to go!
come on joe get back in the basement so you can't make another gaffe or can't answer any questions .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 28, 2020, 05:36:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 28, 2020, 04:04:26 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 28, 2020, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 28, 2020, 11:47:24 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 28, 2020, 11:29:22 AM
I did a mock-up of the election result, leaning slightly to the Red in the very close battleground states to take some account of those who will vote Trump but are too embarrassed to admit it to a pollster, as follows.

Trump: Arizona (11), Florida (29), Georgia (16), Iowa (6), North Carolina (15), Ohio (18), Wisconsin (10)

Biden: Michigan (16), Minnesota (10), Nevada (6), New Hampshire (4)

I appreciate many of those are up for grabs and I haven't been overly scientific (and there might be other tights ones too), but they're my calls at the moment, with Wisconsin being the hardest call of the above for me.

I haven't called Pennsylvania (20), and the above leaves the score at Trump 260, Biden 258 - with the 20 from PA to decide who hits the magic 270 figure ..... (and even if I switched Wisconsin blue, my guesses would still leave Trump winning if he took PA).

I think Biden will definitely win the "popular vote" by more than Hillary did, but that won't guarantee winning the election.

Yep, it very easily could come down to waiting a few days for PA, while Trump cries foul and fraud and incites trouble.

If only the PA GOP hadn't insisted on blocking the state from even processing, never mind counting, mail-in ballots before election day.

The shy Trump voter is a invented now debunked theory as a reason to explain not fully accurate 2016 polls.
And Biden is ahead in the polls in Wisconsin by >10%   
Just my opinion. Perhaps you're right, but I don't quite believe they've been debunked based on working relationship I have with a number of Republicans in the US.

BBC says the latest "polling average" (Source: Real Clear Politics, Associated Press. Last updated: 27 October) for Wisconsin is 49.8% Biden, 44.3% Trump. So 3% swing on that and it stays red (Trump won WI with 47.2% last time).
Wisconsin is not even in the betting as a swing state.
https://www.270towin.com/2020-polls-biden-trump/wisconsin/ (https://www.270towin.com/2020-polls-biden-trump/wisconsin/)
It's wise to be conservative with your rough forecast, but even at a conservative forecast, Biden comes out ahead and it's also a part of the equation that the undecided in the polls don't generally go and vote the way of the incumbent, so Biden should pick up another 2 or 3 more states which are currently in the balance, to embellish that tight majority. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2020, 05:49:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 28, 2020, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2020, 04:30:54 PM
I'm worried about Pennsylvania. Biden's lead there is on a gentle downward slope. Come on Joe, only 6 days to go!
come on joe get back in the basement so you can't make another gaffe or can't answer any questions .

What question do you need answered Gmac?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 07:41:50 PM
The New York Times "anonymous" op ed writer has revealed himself as Miles Taylor, former chief of staff of the Department of Homeland Security

Presume he'll be all over the cable networks tonight

Every little helps for Biden in terms of controlling the news cycle

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 28, 2020, 08:11:15 PM
Went out to vote early this afternoon. Only took about 20 minutes, there have been much longer waits in New York. Of course NY is a certain Biden/Harris win, hopefully the national picture will be the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2020, 01:47:31 AM
Poor ol' Tucker - the entire trove of Hunter Biden documents just disappeared when they were being sent from NY to LA

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1321608091503366144
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 29, 2020, 02:02:57 AM
Surprised he didn't think to do the "big book full of blank pages" thing that Trump did for his healthcare "better than Obamacare" plan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 07:52:11 AM
I have a feeling the Democrats will regret going to texas and Georgia and not trying to hold onto what they have.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 09:07:51 AM
I think if trump goes out to 2/1 in the bookies then he might lose... at the minute, he's 6/4 or 7/4, 'thems' good odds
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 09:39:16 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2020, 01:47:31 AM
Poor ol' Tucker - the entire trove of Hunter Biden documents just disappeared when they were being sent from NY to LA

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1321608091503366144

It's really worrying that that the gaslighted will believe this nonsense.

They got this material. Only had hard copy. Didn't have a soft copy. Didn't scan it. Didn't photocopy it. Just had the one hard copy and posted it. The postal company did its investigation. No proof of anything being removed. The Tucker arguments seems to be that his team did some stupid shit, compounded it with layer upon layer of stupid shit and then the Biden team did some voodoo shit with a touch of either vaporisation or indeed trans-substantiation. Credible when you think of it.

I know Biden is a catholic but does the Biden team include St Patrick? This is the old snakes and lizards trick. Not only have the mails being removed but also all evidence of them having ever been there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on October 29, 2020, 09:40:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 09:07:51 AM
I think if trump goes out to 2/1 in the bookies then he might lose... at the minute, he's 6/4 or 7/4, 'thems' good odds
If he gets to 2/1 I don't think he'll stay there long. Of course betting rumours are notoriously unreliable, but talk is there's a lot of money out there waiting on 2/1 and hitting it when it becomes available.

Last time on the Monday of election week, PP had it Clinton 1/5, Trump 4/1.
The polls would suggest the odds should be similar this time around, so maybe the bookies are being overly conservative re Trump this time and the value is actually in Biden. Personally I'm not getting involved monetarily in either!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 07:52:11 AM
I have a feeling the Democrats will regret going to texas and Georgia and not trying to hold onto what they have.

Possible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 29, 2020, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 09:39:16 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2020, 01:47:31 AM
Poor ol' Tucker - the entire trove of Hunter Biden documents just disappeared when they were being sent from NY to LA

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1321608091503366144

It's really worrying that that the gaslighted will believe this nonsense.

They got this material. Only had hard copy. Didn't have a soft copy. Didn't scan it. Didn't photocopy it. Just had the one hard copy and posted it. The postal company did its investigation. No proof of anything being removed. The Tucker arguments seems to be that his team did some stupid shit, compounded it with layer upon layer of stupid shit and then the Biden team did some voodoo shit with a touch of either vaporisation or indeed trans-substantiation. Credible when you think of it.

I know Biden is a catholic but does the Biden team include St Patrick? This is the old snakes and lizards trick. Not only have the mails being removed but also all evidence of them having ever been there.
Anything Tucker Carlson says should be overlaid with the theme music from the Benny Hill Show
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 29, 2020, 10:20:05 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 07:52:11 AM
I have a feeling the Democrats will regret going to texas and Georgia and not trying to hold onto what they have.

It'd be great for them if Texas went Dem though. There wouldn't be any way Trump could do it then I'd imagine. Then again, it's hard to see it so you're probably correct.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2020, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 09:39:16 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2020, 01:47:31 AM
Poor ol' Tucker - the entire trove of Hunter Biden documents just disappeared when they were being sent from NY to LA

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1321608091503366144

It's really worrying that that the gaslighted will believe this nonsense.

They got this material. Only had hard copy. Didn't have a soft copy. Didn't scan it. Didn't photocopy it. Just had the one hard copy and posted it. The postal company did its investigation. No proof of anything being removed. The Tucker arguments seems to be that his team did some stupid shit, compounded it with layer upon layer of stupid shit and then the Biden team did some voodoo shit with a touch of either vaporisation or indeed trans-substantiation. Credible when you think of it.

I know Biden is a catholic but does the Biden team include St Patrick? This is the old snakes and lizards trick. Not only have the mails being removed but also all evidence of them having ever been there.
Anything Tucker Carlson says should be overlaid with the theme music from the Benny Hill Show

What do the guys on the Right think of him? Surely they can see the absence of credibility
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:49 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2020, 01:47:31 AM
Poor ol' Tucker - the entire trove of Hunter Biden documents just disappeared when they were being sent from NY to LA

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1321608091503366144

;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 29, 2020, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2020, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 09:39:16 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2020, 01:47:31 AM
Poor ol' Tucker - the entire trove of Hunter Biden documents just disappeared when they were being sent from NY to LA

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1321608091503366144

It's really worrying that that the gaslighted will believe this nonsense.

They got this material. Only had hard copy. Didn't have a soft copy. Didn't scan it. Didn't photocopy it. Just had the one hard copy and posted it. The postal company did its investigation. No proof of anything being removed. The Tucker arguments seems to be that his team did some stupid shit, compounded it with layer upon layer of stupid shit and then the Biden team did some voodoo shit with a touch of either vaporisation or indeed trans-substantiation. Credible when you think of it.

I know Biden is a catholic but does the Biden team include St Patrick? This is the old snakes and lizards trick. Not only have the mails being removed but also all evidence of them having ever been there.
Anything Tucker Carlson says should be overlaid with the theme music from the Benny Hill Show

What do the guys on the Right think of him? Surely they can see the absence of credibility
Nobody who supports the Republican party and Donald Trump cares about little things like credibility
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 29, 2020, 12:25:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2020, 01:47:31 AM
Poor ol' Tucker - the entire trove of Hunter Biden documents just disappeared when they were being sent from NY to LA

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1321608091503366144

If only we had some means of transmitting important documents so that they couldn't be misplaced . . . it's tough world out there!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 29, 2020, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 07:52:11 AM
I have a feeling the Democrats will regret going to texas and Georgia and not trying to hold onto what they have.

Depends on money.

If they can spare it, and supposedly Biden has more on hand than Trump, then they can force Trump to divert some of his to those states to defend his campaign. Which obviously takes money away from states where HE would like to put pressure on Biden.

Now if Biden is not shoring up the states HE needs to win, then that is obviously a separate issue. Hillary got caught with her pants down in Michigan and the likes the last time out, only realizing too late that she could be in trouble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 01:10:55 PM
I refuse to believe anyone at a news organisation posted the only copy of the documents.
Surely the first thing they would do is make a bazillion copies if they had them in their hand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 29, 2020, 01:17:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 01:10:55 PM
I refuse to believe anyone at a news organisation posted the only copy of the documents.
Surely the first thing they would do is make a bazillion copies if they had them in their hand.

It does sound like bullshit, both that they wouldn't have copies, but also the hyping up of them getting lost. Even UPS is biased against poor Fox News and Trump!

Besides, who the hell is mailing documents these days anyway that don't need a signature or original hard copies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 01:22:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2020, 01:17:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 01:10:55 PM
I refuse to believe anyone at a news organisation posted the only copy of the documents.
Surely the first thing they would do is make a bazillion copies if they had them in their hand.

It does sound like bullshit, both that they wouldn't have copies, but also the hyping up of them getting lost. Even UPS is biased against poor Fox News and Trump!

Besides, who the hell is mailing documents these days anyway that don't need a signature or original hard copies?

Fox news seemingly. I dont understand why, if they really had documents, they didn't email them in about a second. I'm assuming they received the documents digital originally.

None of it adds up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 29, 2020, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2020, 04:30:54 PM
I'm worried about Pennsylvania. Biden's lead there is on a gentle downward slope. Come on Joe, only 6 days to go!
I'm worried about Pennsylvania for other reasons, namely the courts

It seems to me there is a raft of terrible Republican pollsters desperately trying to portray that public opinion is split evenly or that Trump is ahead

If you want to steal the election, you need to have astro-turf pollsters to create the impression that the race is close or that Trump is ahead

These are Rasmussen (obviously), Trafalgar, Susquehanna and Insider Advantage, the latter two are polling for a right-wing rag called "American Greatness"

You might be right. 538 is saying that there'll be a "blue shift" in PA on election night, where it's possible that the Rethuglicans will appear to have an initial lead, but as the mail-in ballots are counted over the next few days the proportion will shift distinctly blue. I could see Trump coming up with some bogus reason to stop the count, or armed right wing terrorists targeting counting centres.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-pennsylvanias-vote-count-could-change-after-election-night/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 29, 2020, 04:30:39 PM
It happened with the mid-terms last time out.

Trump was crowing away about the House on election night, but a week later after the actual votes had been counted his arse had been handed to him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2020, 10:37:14 PM
This should put the final nail in the Hunter Biden story coffin.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1321942389045497861

​​​​​​​
QuoteNBC Exclusive: The Hunter Biden 'dossier' that went viral on right-wing internet sites and was later disseminated by Trump's close associates appears to be from a fake 'intelligence firm'. The author of the report, 'Martin Aspen', does not exist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 30, 2020, 12:31:07 AM
I see fake "liberal" Glenn Greenwald has finally left no doubt at all as to what his bona fides are - none

It had been coming a long time

He'll have a nice cushy number grifting on Fox News now

Although perhaps Fox might be a bit sedate for him, maybe he'll join up with James O'Keeffe, Jacob Wohl or Alex Jones

And there's always RT, he's been pushing their propaganda line for a long time so I'm sure they'd find a place for him

So many grifting options

Maybe Griftwald will bring his buddy Matt Taibbi with him





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 30, 2020, 12:55:31 AM
He's a strange one, Greenwald. Back in the 2000s he was a virulent critic of Bush and the Republican Party. Think I still have one of his books from back then lying around somewhere, but it was so over the top I gave up on it fairly quickly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:57 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2020, 10:37:14 PM
This should put the final nail in the Hunter Biden story coffin.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1321942389045497861

​​​​​​​
QuoteNBC Exclusive: The Hunter Biden 'dossier' that went viral on right-wing internet sites and was later disseminated by Trump's close associates appears to be from a fake 'intelligence firm'. The author of the report, 'Martin Aspen', does not exist.

Maybe that's what was in Tucker's missing documents, which, apparently, UPS managed to find! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 30, 2020, 01:48:30 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 30, 2020, 12:55:31 AM
He's a strange one, Greenwald. Back in the 2000s he was a virulent critic of Bush and the Republican Party. Think I still have one of his books from back then lying around somewhere, but it was so over the top I gave up on it fairly quickly.
What Griftwald never tells you now is that he supported the Iraq War - in fact he does everything in his power to try and create the impression he was fiercely against it

But he did support it

Now he's not just defending but doing the bidding of a president run amok

From "How Would A Patriot Act? Defending American Values from a President Run Amok"

During the lead-up to the invasion, I was concerned that the hell-bent focus on invading Iraq was being driven by agendas and strategic objectives that had nothing to do with terrorism or the 9/11 attacks. The overt rationale for the invasion was exceedingly weak, particularly given that it would lead to an open-ended, incalculably costly, and intensely risky preemptive war. Around the same time, it was revealed that an invasion of Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein had been high on the agenda of various senior administration officials long before September 11. Despite these doubts, concerns, and grounds for ambivalence, I had not abandoned my trust in the Bush administration. Between the president's performance in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, the swift removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the fact that I wanted the president to succeed, because my loyalty is to my country and he was the leader of my country, I still gave the administration the benefit of the doubt. I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to develop a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 30, 2020, 01:55:34 PM
Early voting statistics are mind blowing... Texas having already surpassed their total vote figures for 2016.

Will be interesting to see if a better turnout means more Democrat votes. It's entirely possible that Trump has whipped up so much fear that Republicans are getting out the vote as well so will be interesting to see how things pan out on Tuesday.

You'd have to think with the Republican rhetoric and mountain of legal challenges trying to strike off votes that Republicans are worried. . . I sincerely hope they are but not making any predictions after the last fiasco!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Girl on the other day and she was saying it took her 5 hours to vote? So are the standing in line to vote for 5 hours? WTF I'd lose interest after 5 minutes and head home...

Why is it so long? I know the population is a lot but surely more voting stations would bring the timing down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 30, 2020, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Girl on the other day and she was saying it took her 5 hours to vote? So are the standing in line to vote for 5 hours? WTF I'd lose interest after 5 minutes and head home...

Why is it so long? I know the population is a lot but surely more voting stations would bring the timing down

In some places Republicans have only allowed 1 location per county. Actually shutting other locations to enforce it.

Unbelievable and shameful
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 30, 2020, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Girl on the other day and she was saying it took her 5 hours to vote? So are the standing in line to vote for 5 hours? WTF I'd lose interest after 5 minutes and head home...

Why is it so long? I know the population is a lot but surely more voting stations would bring the timing down

In some places Republicans have only allowed 1 location per county. Actually shutting other locations to enforce it.

Unbelievable and shameful
you can get mail in ballot for months in advance that can be mailed or dropped off so there's
no excuse for not voting , don't believe the bs .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2020, 03:02:39 PM
Ah yes - the fantastic mail service that has been crippled this year by a postmaster who just happens to be a Trump megadonor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2020, 03:02:39 PM
Ah yes - the fantastic mail service that has been crippled this year by a postmaster who just happens to be a Trump megadonor.
republican voters tend to be in more rural areas so who would a slow mail delivery service help
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 30, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
Depends on where Trump's postmaster has worked to disrupt service. Where do you think that would be? Do the research yourself Gmac. Hint battle ground states where Trump will want an excuse to contest elections.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 30, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
Depends on where Trump's postmaster has worked to disrupt service. Where do you think that would be? Do the research yourself Gmac. Hint battle ground states where Trump will want an excuse to contest elections.
bs if you can't figure out how to get your vote in with multiple options and months of time in advance you are either dumb or lazy or both not disenfranchised.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 08:27:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 30, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
Depends on where Trump's postmaster has worked to disrupt service. Where do you think that would be? Do the research yourself Gmac. Hint battle ground states where Trump will want an excuse to contest elections.
bs if you can't figure out how to get your vote in with multiple options and months of time in advance you are either dumb or lazy or both not disenfranchised.
Wise up. It takes 10 mins tops to vote in Ireland, but "the greatest nation on earth" you have ones queuing for hours? You don't think it would be reasonable to sort this out for the public?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 08:34:06 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 08:27:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 30, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
Depends on where Trump's postmaster has worked to disrupt service. Where do you think that would be? Do the research yourself Gmac. Hint battle ground states where Trump will want an excuse to contest elections.
bs if you can't figure out how to get your vote in with multiple options and months of time in advance you are either dumb or lazy or both not disenfranchised.
Wise up. It takes 10 mins tops to vote in Ireland, but "the greatest nation on earth" you have ones queuing for hours? You don't think it would be reasonable to sort this out for the public?
good for Ireland
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on October 30, 2020, 08:36:43 PM
And your point is....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 08:34:06 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 08:27:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 30, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
Depends on where Trump's postmaster has worked to disrupt service. Where do you think that would be? Do the research yourself Gmac. Hint battle ground states where Trump will want an excuse to contest elections.
bs if you can't figure out how to get your vote in with multiple options and months of time in advance you are either dumb or lazy or both not disenfranchised.
Wise up. It takes 10 mins tops to vote in Ireland, but "the greatest nation on earth" you have ones queuing for hours? You don't think it would be reasonable to sort this out for the public?
good for Ireland
;D Your some pup
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 30, 2020, 08:56:05 PM
Now don't be giving pups a bad rap.. they are generally lovable... Aren't they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 08:58:44 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 08:27:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 30, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
Depends on where Trump's postmaster has worked to disrupt service. Where do you think that would be? Do the research yourself Gmac. Hint battle ground states where Trump will want an excuse to contest elections.
bs if you can't figure out how to get your vote in with multiple options and months of time in advance you are either dumb or lazy or both not disenfranchised.
Wise up. It takes 10 mins tops to vote in Ireland, but "the greatest nation on earth" you have ones queuing for hours? You don't think it would be reasonable to sort this out for the public?

Don't they have months to do it though?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: delgany on October 30, 2020, 09:10:16 PM
They do have drive through voting in some state on news last night !
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 08:58:44 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 08:27:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 30, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
Depends on where Trump's postmaster has worked to disrupt service. Where do you think that would be? Do the research yourself Gmac. Hint battle ground states where Trump will want an excuse to contest elections.
bs if you can't figure out how to get your vote in with multiple options and months of time in advance you are either dumb or lazy or both not disenfranchised.
Wise up. It takes 10 mins tops to vote in Ireland, but "the greatest nation on earth" you have ones queuing for hours? You don't think it would be reasonable to sort this out for the public?

Don't they have months to do it though?
you can get a ballot in the mail months in advance and fill it out and either mail it or drop it off at a ballot drop box . There are lots of local propositions and stuff on the ballots other than trump of Biden so showing up and going through the whole ballot in person can take a long time especially in a pandemic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2020, 09:30:37 PM
Quote from: delgany on October 30, 2020, 09:10:16 PM
They do have drive through voting in some state on news last night !

And the Texas GOP are trying to get those votes made illegal even though it was their Lt. Gov who approved it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2020, 09:48:11 PM
But I'd have thought with all the press rallies and debates you'd want a decent idea on who to vote for. That's why in most countries ballots are done on the day.

Yes overseas votes I get but this seems excessive
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 30, 2020, 10:17:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 30, 2020, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Girl on the other day and she was saying it took her 5 hours to vote? So are the standing in line to vote for 5 hours? WTF I'd lose interest after 5 minutes and head home...

Why is it so long? I know the population is a lot but surely more voting stations would bring the timing down

In some places Republicans have only allowed 1 location per county. Actually shutting other locations to enforce it.

Unbelievable and shameful
you can get mail in ballot for months in advance that can be mailed or dropped off so there's
no excuse for not voting , don't believe the bs .

Tell that to GOP. They are putting a big effort into this. If they are wasting their time then you should probably let them know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 30, 2020, 10:24:43 PM
Gmac - any view on what is going on at Fox? That Tucker story was guaranteed to be fake and yet it got on air? What is going on there? Did they create the fake story or just stupidly allow themselves to become complicit it spreading it? Is there nobody within Fox with the intelligence to spot these thing?

Very difficult for these people to even claim to be journalists going forward?8
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 11:29:43 PM
I'm not a fox new expert or spokesman, the only comment I made was on the interview with tony bobulinski who was hunter Biden's business partner that's a fact and what he said has not been debunked and implicated joe . The documents going missing sounds like bs .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 12:05:43 AM
in all probability this will go down as the worst ever re-election campaign by an incumbent, where most every negative attempt to  promote  backfired spectacularly.
  Voting??  near impossible  to measure the idiocy of the strategy to question the validity of the vote, months before the voters cast their vote.

What Ireland can learn from the USA  is to introduce a week/two week long voting window for general elections.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 31, 2020, 09:57:10 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 11:29:43 PM
I'm not a fox new expert or spokesman, the only comment I made was on the interview with tony bobulinski who was hunter Biden's business partner that's a fact and what he said has not been debunked and implicated joe . The documents going missing sounds like bs .

Implicated Joe in what?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2020, 09:57:10 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 30, 2020, 11:29:43 PM
I'm not a fox new expert or spokesman, the only comment I made was on the interview with tony bobulinski who was hunter Biden's business partner that's a fact and what he said has not been debunked and implicated joe . The documents going missing sounds like bs .

Implicated Joe in what?
Joeburger
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 12:40:06 PM
Record covid numbers in US. Kushner responds by saying the numbers are tiny "just look at Instagram".

Team Trump are the most desperate fools I've witnessed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 12:48:46 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 12:40:06 PM
Record covid numbers in US. Kushner responds by saying the numbers are tiny "just look at Instagram".

Team Trump are the most desperate fools I've witnessed
Kushner isn't looking very hard for the real figures

I think that's down to him not wanting to find them out - that's pure laziness, which is a personal choice by him

One has to want to find out the real figures before making a comment that can be taken seriously
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 31, 2020, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2020, 09:30:37 PM
Quote from: delgany on October 30, 2020, 09:10:16 PM
They do have drive through voting in some state on news last night !

And the Texas GOP are trying to get those votes made illegal even though it was their Lt. Gov who approved it.

That's the GOP MO.

Afraid of any kind of large turnout. Keep the vote low, and they always have a much better chance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
I see Trump is still going on about voter fraud. Do Gmac or Fivepoints have any insight into why Trump doesn't release his evidence of voter fraud? It must be a real good reason given the importance of the issue and it's hardly likely that POTUS just makes stuff like that up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:29:39 PM
Trump crowds shouting "build that wall, build that wall". Presumably that is them turning on Trump and his paltry record on wall building?


What is is promising for his 2nd term? Another 3.75 miles per annum? He really has let his supporters down or was the whole the whole thing just an empty promise to whip up fear and division? Any insight there Gmac?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
Anyone here been to a Trump rally? Rumour has it there are no masks, no social distancing, no guidance, plenty of Biden bashing, plenty of mask bashing, plenty of talk of immunity, plenty of talk of covid being exaggerated and oh also a waiver to be signed so that you can't sue Trump if you get Covid at the event?

A bit of a whiff of hypocrisy there??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 31, 2020, 10:43:23 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-rally-covid-cases-us-2020-election-coronavirus-numbers-b1282241.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 31, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
I see Trump is still going on about voter fraud. Do Gmac or Fivepoints have any insight into why Trump doesn't release his evidence of voter fraud? It must be a real good reason given the importance of the issue and it's hardly likely that POTUS just makes stuff like that up?
The evidence of voter fraud is in Hunters laptop. Coming soon. The October November bombshell. Don'tcha know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 11:10:27 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
Anyone here been to a Trump rally? Rumour has it there are no masks, no social distancing, no guidance, plenty of Biden bashing, plenty of mask bashing, plenty of talk of immunity, plenty of talk of covid being exaggerated and oh also a waiver to be signed so that you can't sue Trump if you get Covid at the event?

Freedom

See Trump's fascist goons tried to run a Biden campaign bus off the freeway in Texas

What's seldom mentioned is that the paramilitary forces that Trump is aiding, abetting and whipping up into a frenzy are indeed a classic feature of fascism

Trrump's SS is ready to unleash hell over the next week if it looks as if there's a chance the American Nazi Party might lose







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2020, 02:01:12 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 31, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
I see Trump is still going on about voter fraud. Do Gmac or Fivepoints have any insight into why Trump doesn't release his evidence of voter fraud? It must be a real good reason given the importance of the issue and it's hardly likely that POTUS just makes stuff like that up?
The evidence of voter fraud is in Hunters laptop. Coming soon. The October November bombshell. Don'tcha know.

Yeah, they must be having a lot of trouble with the passwords! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2020, 02:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 11:10:27 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
Anyone here been to a Trump rally? Rumour has it there are no masks, no social distancing, no guidance, plenty of Biden bashing, plenty of mask bashing, plenty of talk of immunity, plenty of talk of covid being exaggerated and oh also a waiver to be signed so that you can't sue Trump if you get Covid at the event?

Freedom

See Trump's fascist goons tried to run a Biden campaign bus off the freeway in Texas

What's seldom mentioned is that the paramilitary forces that Trump is aiding, abetting and whipping up into a frenzy are indeed a classic feature of fascism

Trrump's SS is ready to unleash hell over the next week if it looks as if there's a chance the American Nazi Party might lose

f**king lowlife thugs.

Meanwhile, a peaceful "Souls to the Polls" march, complete with young children, which stops at a confederate monument in NC to do a protest in honour of George Floyd, gets tear-gassed by the cops.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 09:49:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2020, 02:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 11:10:27 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
Anyone here been to a Trump rally? Rumour has it there are no masks, no social distancing, no guidance, plenty of Biden bashing, plenty of mask bashing, plenty of talk of immunity, plenty of talk of covid being exaggerated and oh also a waiver to be signed so that you can't sue Trump if you get Covid at the event?

Freedom

See Trump's fascist goons tried to run a Biden campaign bus off the freeway in Texas

What's seldom mentioned is that the paramilitary forces that Trump is aiding, abetting and whipping up into a frenzy are indeed a classic feature of fascism

Trrump's SS is ready to unleash hell over the next week if it looks as if there's a chance the American Nazi Party might lose

f**king lowlife thugs.

Meanwhile, a peaceful "Souls to the Polls" march, complete with young children, which stops at a confederate monument in NC to do a protest in honour of George Floyd, gets tear-gassed by the cops.

They were blocking a road... beside a polling station, thereby preventing people from voting. They were asked to move but refused.
Isn't this voter suppression?

Remove the spin lads.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 01, 2020, 10:22:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
Anyone here been to a Trump rally? Rumour has it there are no masks, no social distancing, no guidance, plenty of Biden bashing, plenty of mask bashing, plenty of talk of immunity, plenty of talk of covid being exaggerated and oh also a waiver to be signed so that you can't sue Trump if you get Covid at the event?

A bit of a whiff of hypocrisy there??
According to the excellent Niall Stanage on Dunphy's podcasts:
Everyone supposed to get temperature checked on the way in.
Mask wearing not compulsory, but has increased since Trump contracted Covid.
No social distancing. Trump argues because it's outside it's okay.
There have been subsequent Covid spikes in most areas where the rallys have taken place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 10:24:35 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 01, 2020, 10:22:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
Anyone here been to a Trump rally? Rumour has it there are no masks, no social distancing, no guidance, plenty of Biden bashing, plenty of mask bashing, plenty of talk of immunity, plenty of talk of covid being exaggerated and oh also a waiver to be signed so that you can't sue Trump if you get Covid at the event?

A bit of a whiff of hypocrisy there??
According to the excellent Niall Stanage on Dunphy's podcasts:
Everyone supposed to get temperature checked on the way in.
Mask wearing not compulsory, but has increased since Trump contracted Covid.
No social distancing. Trump argues because it's outside it's okay.
There have been subsequent Covid spikes in most areas where the rallys have taken place.

20k cases and 700 deaths i read they've linked to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 01, 2020, 10:25:47 AM
30K + cases and 700 deaths

But the doctors are apparently paid to invent this, says Trump

This is America's Pinochet 1988 moment and it must not fail
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2020, 10:46:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 09:49:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2020, 02:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 11:10:27 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
Anyone here been to a Trump rally? Rumour has it there are no masks, no social distancing, no guidance, plenty of Biden bashing, plenty of mask bashing, plenty of talk of immunity, plenty of talk of covid being exaggerated and oh also a waiver to be signed so that you can't sue Trump if you get Covid at the event?

Freedom

See Trump's fascist goons tried to run a Biden campaign bus off the freeway in Texas

What's seldom mentioned is that the paramilitary forces that Trump is aiding, abetting and whipping up into a frenzy are indeed a classic feature of fascism

Trrump's SS is ready to unleash hell over the next week if it looks as if there's a chance the American Nazi Party might lose

f**king lowlife thugs.

Meanwhile, a peaceful "Souls to the Polls" march, complete with young children, which stops at a confederate monument in NC to do a protest in honour of George Floyd, gets tear-gassed by the cops.

They were blocking a road... beside a polling station, thereby preventing people from voting. They were asked to move but refused.
Isn't this voter suppression?

Remove the spin lads.

For eight minutes.

So let's tear gas kids and peaceful marchers and escalate the whole situation.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 11:08:18 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/XSbv9LR/Screenshot-20201101-110435-Chrome.jpg)

These people would sectarianise anything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 11:55:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2020, 02:01:12 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 31, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
I see Trump is still going on about voter fraud. Do Gmac or Fivepoints have any insight into why Trump doesn't release his evidence of voter fraud? It must be a real good reason given the importance of the issue and it's hardly likely that POTUS just makes stuff like that up?
The evidence of voter fraud is in Hunters laptop. Coming soon. The October November bombshell. Don'tcha know.

Yeah, they must be having a lot of trouble with the passwords! ;D

Have Fox given any explanation yet on the whole email/postal fiction?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 11:56:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 10:24:35 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 01, 2020, 10:22:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
Anyone here been to a Trump rally? Rumour has it there are no masks, no social distancing, no guidance, plenty of Biden bashing, plenty of mask bashing, plenty of talk of immunity, plenty of talk of covid being exaggerated and oh also a waiver to be signed so that you can't sue Trump if you get Covid at the event?

A bit of a whiff of hypocrisy there??
According to the excellent Niall Stanage on Dunphy's podcasts:
Everyone supposed to get temperature checked on the way in.
Mask wearing not compulsory, but has increased since Trump contracted Covid.
No social distancing. Trump argues because it's outside it's okay.
There have been subsequent Covid spikes in most areas where the rallys have taken place.

20k cases and 700 deaths i read they've linked to them.

I wonder did the 700 vote already?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 01, 2020, 04:00:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 11:08:18 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/XSbv9LR/Screenshot-20201101-110435-Chrome.jpg)

These people would sectarianise anything.

If Sammy and the likes of Nigel Farage are backing Trump he must be a good un.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 01, 2020, 07:56:06 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 11:56:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 10:24:35 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 01, 2020, 10:22:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
Anyone here been to a Trump rally? Rumour has it there are no masks, no social distancing, no guidance, plenty of Biden bashing, plenty of mask bashing, plenty of talk of immunity, plenty of talk of covid being exaggerated and oh also a waiver to be signed so that you can't sue Trump if you get Covid at the event?

A bit of a whiff of hypocrisy there??
According to the excellent Niall Stanage on Dunphy's podcasts:
Everyone supposed to get temperature checked on the way in.
Mask wearing not compulsory, but has increased since Trump contracted Covid.
No social distancing. Trump argues because it's outside it's okay.
There have been subsequent Covid spikes in most areas where the rallys have taken place.

20k cases and 700 deaths i read they've linked to them.

I wonder did the 700 vote already?

If not,  isn't there a window of opportunity on Nov 2,  The Day of the Dead, a pathway to cast their vote for Trump from the beyonds?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on November 01, 2020, 08:28:02 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 01, 2020, 04:00:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 11:08:18 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/XSbv9LR/Screenshot-20201101-110435-Chrome.jpg)

These people would sectarianise anything.

If Sammy and the likes of Nigel Farage are backing Trump he must be a good un.

If ever there was ANOTHER reason to want Trump fcuked out on Tuesday....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 11:12:27 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/01/politics/iowa-poll-selzer/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/01/politics/iowa-poll-selzer/index.html)

Uh oh...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 01, 2020, 11:16:11 PM
the boul' Jolene Bunting as well is all out for him

https://twitter.com/mkoconnor29/status/1320806511854190592
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 01, 2020, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 11:12:27 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/01/politics/iowa-poll-selzer/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/01/politics/iowa-poll-selzer/index.html)

Uh oh...

Biden doesn't need Iowa
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 01, 2020, 11:16:11 PM
the boul' Jolene Bunting as well is all out for him

https://twitter.com/mkoconnor29/status/1320806511854190592

Maybe she's holding out for a communications director post. I've never seen unionism/loyalism endorse a US election candidate like this and we all know the reason why. Its because Biden is one of themuns.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 11:23:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 01, 2020, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 11:12:27 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/01/politics/iowa-poll-selzer/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/01/politics/iowa-poll-selzer/index.html)

Uh oh...

Biden doesn't need Iowa

True, but if that sort of jump in the polls happens in other states the Democrats will be nervous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 01, 2020, 11:47:53 PM
I really don't think they will be. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 01, 2020, 11:59:47 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 01, 2020, 11:47:53 PM
I really don't think they will be.

Stop saying that Jesus!!

I've been keeping an eye on the polls and it seems like it's all Biden but America is a basket case and you can take nothing for granted in an election year. Trump has had a small improvement in the last week and while I don't think Comey will appear this time to get Trump over the line I'm not taking anything for granted.

If this thing isn't called on Tuesday night the legal fight for votes counted after will get very messy!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 02, 2020, 12:14:17 AM
LOL - because one comment on a message board is going to make any difference  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 02, 2020, 12:19:54 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 02, 2020, 12:14:17 AM
LOL - because one comment on a message board is going to make any difference  ;D

Clicked on the Jolene Bunting comment and then decided to follow her... she blocked me within 5 minutes!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 09:43:02 AM
I see Trump had a rally in Pittsburgh and have been exaggerating the crowd sizes as usual. Media trying to point to the fracking comments causing a surge in Trump voters. The dishonestly is going to continue up until tomorrow to try convince Biden voters it's not worth bothering turning up.
Add that to the voter intimidation going on all over the country - we are seeing bully tactics that were used in 2016.

Thankfully the Hunter Biden hoax has been contained and isn't going to be a factor. Fox news have been shameless recently and should be punished for their fake news.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: pbat on November 02, 2020, 09:55:59 AM
Does the senate and congress change immediately after election or everything change on inauguration day?

If Trump loses can he pass bat shit crazy policies between Tuesday and and the 20th January?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
Quote from: pbat on November 02, 2020, 09:55:59 AM
Does the senate and congress change immediately after election or everything change on inauguration day?

If Trump loses can he pass bat shit crazy policies between Tuesday and and the 20th January?

There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration

I think they will need to monitor his communications after election day to ensure that he doesn't go nuclear and send off info to Putin and his pal in North Korea. The things he accused Obama of will be exactly his playbook to try cripple the Biden administration.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:14:15 AM
Quote from: pbat on November 02, 2020, 09:55:59 AM
Does the senate and congress change immediately after election or everything change on inauguration day?

If Trump loses can he pass bat shit crazy policies between Tuesday and and the 20th January?
Senate and House changes on January 1st

However there are a couple of seats that would change quicker than that - November 30th I think - because the current incumbents were appointed rather than elected

The Arizona seat where Democrat Mark Kelly is favoured to beat Republican Martha McSally is one

One of the Georgia seats is another I think - there are two Georgia senate seats in play tomorrow

Trump can certainly ramp up the damage to the US even more in the transition period should he lose

The forced retirement of Clarence Thomas from the Supreme Court and his replacement with a younger crony is one mooted possibility but that could depend on the Arizona and Georgia senate results - still, you wouldn't put it past them to sneak this in by the end of November
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:32:53 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2020, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 01, 2020, 11:16:11 PM
the boul' Jolene Bunting as well is all out for him

https://twitter.com/mkoconnor29/status/1320806511854190592

Maybe she's holding out for a communications director post. I've never seen unionism/loyalism endorse a US election candidate like this and we all know the reason why. Its because Biden is one of themuns.
The DUP's fanatical support for Trump is very little to do with Biden being a Catholic

They support Trump because he has brought about the fantasy world of make believe and fake victimhood that the DUP truly desire - a retreat into a fever dream of 19th century dinosauristic fascism

But the Catholic/Protestant thing in the US has all but disappeared - the right-wing Catholic establishment in the US and the evangelical right are as crazy as each other, and they now rely on each other to push a common agenda

The DUP are the white, evangelical Protestant right-wing who are attempting to cling to power against the "eternal threat" of an imagined Godless yet Catholic eternal enemy

But in America, the Catholic establishment are essentially part of the white, evangelical Protestant right-wing

The DUP oppose Biden because he isn't part of that Catholic, right-wing establishment and believes in a secular society

They oppose him because they see him as not being Catholic enough

But they love Mike Pence and Amy Coney Barrett and William Barr, who are very Catholic









Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: rory on November 02, 2020, 11:52:37 AM
So anyone fancy a prediction. I really think Trump will win with maybe one state less than last time. Polls seem to be tightening and recent history shows that the polls skew left.
Hope I'm wrong but I fear 4 more years of Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 12:10:17 PM
Biden to win by a large margin of electoral college votes although the swing states will be tight.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: naka on November 02, 2020, 12:30:46 PM
biden to win big on the electoral college vote
trump to take proceedings in Nevada, ohio, pennsylvania alleging voter fraud
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 02, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
Unless it's a landslide win Trump will not go quietly. Even with a landslide win I reckon he will make life as difficult as possible for Biden to take over from him and wouldn't be surprised if he raises some constitutional crisis or other. I genuinely believe that anything other than a Trump win will see chaos
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 02, 2020, 01:05:45 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 02, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
Unless it's a landslide win Trump will not go quietly. Even with a landslide win I reckon he will make life as difficult as possible for Biden to take over from him and wouldn't be surprised if he raises some constitutional crisis or other. I genuinely believe that anything other than a Trump win will see chaos

I can see the same thing happening on here if Trump wins. Absolute chaos on gaaboard.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 02, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Trump to win, by a big enough margin that it's over by Wednesday morning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 02, 2020, 01:24:55 PM
No winner to be announced until December
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Hopefully Biden win confirmed by Thursday night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Dubh driocht on November 02, 2020, 01:46:40 PM
Biden will win, and Democrats will take control of the Senate. The bookies and polling companies were marginally wrong in 2016 but they are more cautious this time and are building in the 'I'm not going to admit to backing Trump' factor. I am excited by Biden's plans for governing if not by Biden himself, although Kamala Harris may turn out to be the real President.
Trump will not go quietly but the power of the State will ultimately crush him if not his fanatical extremist supporters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 02, 2020, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2020, 01:05:45 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 02, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
Unless it's a landslide win Trump will not go quietly. Even with a landslide win I reckon he will make life as difficult as possible for Biden to take over from him and wouldn't be surprised if he raises some constitutional crisis or other. I genuinely believe that anything other than a Trump win will see chaos

I can see the same thing happening on here if Trump wins. Absolute chaos on gaaboard.  ;D

:D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 02:04:35 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 02, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
Unless it's a landslide win Trump will not go quietly. Even with a landslide win I reckon he will make life as difficult as possible for Biden to take over from him and wouldn't be surprised if he raises some constitutional crisis or other. I genuinely believe that anything other than a Trump win will see chaos
Chaos is an inevitability because Trump cannot win legitimately

There is a very good chance that some very weird and worrying shit could go down, expect anything

Violence from Trump supporters is all but an inevitability

If the fraud that Trump plans is enough to enable him to "win" - note the inverted commas, Trump supporters will see that as carte blanche to engage in a wave of violence against vulnerable minorities

Everything is on the line tomorrow

America must not fail, if it does, it will have disastrous ramifications not just for America, but for the world

As a species, we already face existential problems - if Trump remains in power, the driving force of power in the world will remain that which rejects science, reason and truth and supports nihilism and serfdom for everybody outside the richest 0.1%

And this will spread further around the world

We have no hope of solving collective problems while this cancerous evil ideology dominates
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I'm expecting a Biden win, but won't be surprised if Trump pulls off a repeat of 2016

I just can't see how all the polls can be wrong again

I heard Ed Rendell on POTUS last week and he said there's a 2-3% undercount of Trump support in the polls. Add in a 2-3 % MOE and now all of a sudden a poll that shows Biden up 6 could be much tighter that expected

LOL-and don't kid yourself.... it's not just people who are embarrassed to admit voting for Trump. Every single Trump supporter I know lies to the pollsters to lull the Democrats into a false sense of security

I think we are in for a few surprises tomorrow night.

Personally I'm fine with Biden, but I'd be shocked if he lasts 4 years. I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President and I fvckin hate her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 02, 2020, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 02:04:35 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 02, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
Unless it's a landslide win Trump will not go quietly. Even with a landslide win I reckon he will make life as difficult as possible for Biden to take over from him and wouldn't be surprised if he raises some constitutional crisis or other. I genuinely believe that anything other than a Trump win will see chaos
Chaos is an inevitability because Trump cannot win legitimately

There is a very good chance that some very weird and worrying shit could go down, expect anything

Violence from Trump supporters is all but an inevitability

If the fraud that Trump plans is enough to enable him to "win" - note the inverted commas, Trump supporters will see that as carte blanche to engage in a wave of violence against vulnerable minorities

Everything is on the line tomorrow

America must not fail, if it does, it will have disastrous ramifications not just for America, but for the world

As a species, we already face existential problems - if Trump remains in power, the driving force of power in the world will remain that which rejects science, reason and truth and supports nihilism and serfdom for everybody outside the richest 0.1%

And this will spread further around the world

We have no hope of solving collective problems while this cancerous evil ideology dominates

I think you might be going a bit over the top there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2020, 02:35:37 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 02, 2020, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2020, 01:05:45 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 02, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
Unless it's a landslide win Trump will not go quietly. Even with a landslide win I reckon he will make life as difficult as possible for Biden to take over from him and wouldn't be surprised if he raises some constitutional crisis or other. I genuinely believe that anything other than a Trump win will see chaos

I can see the same thing happening on here if Trump wins. Absolute chaos on gaaboard.  ;D

:D

If only it WERE a laughing matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 02:44:42 PM
Looks like most american cities are boarding up businesses in the event that Trump loses and his supporters go out and wreck everything.

It's very sad that this is what happens in a democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 02, 2020, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 02:04:35 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 02, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
Unless it's a landslide win Trump will not go quietly. Even with a landslide win I reckon he will make life as difficult as possible for Biden to take over from him and wouldn't be surprised if he raises some constitutional crisis or other. I genuinely believe that anything other than a Trump win will see chaos
Chaos is an inevitability because Trump cannot win legitimately

There is a very good chance that some very weird and worrying shit could go down, expect anything

Violence from Trump supporters is all but an inevitability

If the fraud that Trump plans is enough to enable him to "win" - note the inverted commas, Trump supporters will see that as carte blanche to engage in a wave of violence against vulnerable minorities

Everything is on the line tomorrow

America must not fail, if it does, it will have disastrous ramifications not just for America, but for the world

As a species, we already face existential problems - if Trump remains in power, the driving force of power in the world will remain that which rejects science, reason and truth and supports nihilism and serfdom for everybody outside the richest 0.1%

And this will spread further around the world

We have no hope of solving collective problems while this cancerous evil ideology dominates

I think you might be going a bit over the top there.
And yet the people who were constantly gaslit as being "over the top" for the last five years have continually been proven to be far more accurate in their predictions than the people who portrayed themselves as "adults in the room" and told people they were "over reacting" and "hysterical"

The doomsayers have been continually proven correct

There's a terrible denial here about what's at stake and what could happen

If Trump stays in power, the prospect of the US breaking apart, Soviet Union style, would not be outlandish

When the Republican right started their insane culture wars in the early 90s, you could probably go back 20 years before that at least actually, they set in train a chain of events that has led to this moment

But this moment could lead to somewhere else entirely

What consumes the Republican party now is not unlike the extreme Islamist ideology that Saudi Arabia spread throughout the world over the last 50 years

It is certainly comparable in terms of fanaticism, of being impenetrable to reason

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:49:04 PM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 02:44:42 PM
Looks like most american cities are boarding up businesses in the event that Trump loses and his supporters go out and wreck everything.

It's very sad that this is what happens in a democracy.


Lol

Quite the opposite.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 02, 2020, 02:49:45 PM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 02:44:42 PM
Looks like most american cities are boarding up businesses in the event that Trump loses and his supporters go out and wreck everything.

It's very sad that this is what happens in a democracy.

Most American cities are boarding up business' because no matter who wins the fear is there will be riots
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/01/democracy-fascism-global-trump-biden-election

Scholars warn of collapse of democracy as Trump v Biden election looms
Dozens of experts on fascism warn of global danger, calling for action from ordinary people: 'It is not too late'

----

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/26/republican-party-autocratic-hungary-turkey-study-trump

Republicans closely resemble autocratic parties in Hungary and Turkey – study
Swedish university finds 'dramatic shift' in GOP under Trump, shunning democratic norms and encouraging violence
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 02, 2020, 03:23:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PMEvery single Trump supporter I know lies to the pollsters to lull the Democrats into a false sense of security

LOLOLOL - that'll show them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 02, 2020, 03:31:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 02, 2020, 03:23:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PMEvery single Trump supporter I know lies to the pollsters to lull the Democrats into a false sense of security

LOLOLOL - that'll show them

Unsurprisingly, Trump supporters like the man himself, are liars.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/01/democracy-fascism-global-trump-biden-election

Scholars warn of collapse of democracy as Trump v Biden election looms
Dozens of experts on fascism warn of global danger, calling for action from ordinary people: 'It is not too late'

----

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/26/republican-party-autocratic-hungary-turkey-study-trump

Republicans closely resemble autocratic parties in Hungary and Turkey – study
Swedish university finds 'dramatic shift' in GOP under Trump, shunning democratic norms and encouraging violence
cities are bracing themselves all over the country for violence if Trump wins will that be excited Trump supporters or antifa and blm out for another four years of mayhem.
Trump supporters slowing up a bus on the freeway Biden supporters wreck shot fronts attack police and loot hundreds of millions of dollars worth of merchandise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 02, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
GMAC if Biden wins can I buy your MAGA hat off ye?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 02, 2020, 04:24:13 PM
Quote from: rory on November 02, 2020, 11:52:37 AM
So anyone fancy a prediction. I really think Trump will win with maybe one state less than last time. Polls seem to be tightening and recent history shows that the polls skew left.
Hope I'm wrong but I fear 4 more years of Trump.
North Carolina going to be one of the first important states that we get a handle on.
Biden wins that and he should be in for a reasonably comfortable night, but if it goes Trump's way, then we've a battle on our hands.

Florida the next key one. Biden wins that and I think he'll get to 270 by the end of a long night. Trump wins and we're going down to the wire and Pennsylvania will be the decisive state and we won't have a result on the night. By the end of the night Trump will likely be ahead in PA, but it'll be Friday before a result is in and the postal votes could swing it Biden's way. This could be the biggest public order disaster. Trump claims victory on the night based on partial votes but loses when all the votes are counted and chaos on the streets ensues.

I just watched a CNN interview with someone from the Trafalgar polling group. These guys were apparently the only ones who got Trump getting 306 last time (albeit a couple of states wrong but cancelled each other out). They're saying the Trump embarrassment factor is real and they are calling Trump getting 275 - even without PA and WI which they say are too tight to call. But Trafalgar are calling NC, Florida, Arizona and Michigan all for Trump. 

CNN themselves on the other hand are calling PA, MI, WI and AZ all blue and have Biden getting 290 (and possible more as they say Florida, NC and Georgia are too close to call).



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 02, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
GMAC if Biden wins can I buy your MAGA hat off ye?
i don't have one and if I did I wouldn't wear it I don't want to invite violence on myself by unhinged liberals..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 02, 2020, 06:05:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 02, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
GMAC if Biden wins can I buy your MAGA hat off ye?
i don't have one and if I did I wouldn't wear it I don't want to invite violence on myself by unhinged liberals..

That's a good reply and accurate to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2020, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2020, 06:05:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 02, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
GMAC if Biden wins can I buy your MAGA hat off ye?
i don't have one and if I did I wouldn't wear it I don't want to invite violence on myself by unhinged liberals..

That's a good reply and accurate to.
Would you two like to be alone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on November 02, 2020, 08:21:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 02, 2020, 04:24:13 PM
Quote from: rory on November 02, 2020, 11:52:37 AM
So anyone fancy a prediction. I really think Trump will win with maybe one state less than last time. Polls seem to be tightening and recent history shows that the polls skew left.
Hope I'm wrong but I fear 4 more years of Trump.
North Carolina going to be one of the first important states that we get a handle on.
Biden wins that and he should be in for a reasonably comfortable night, but if it goes Trump's way, then we've a battle on our hands.

Florida the next key one. Biden wins that and I think he'll get to 270 by the end of a long night. Trump wins and we're going down to the wire and Pennsylvania will be the decisive state and we won't have a result on the night. By the end of the night Trump will likely be ahead in PA, but it'll be Friday before a result is in and the postal votes could swing it Biden's way. This could be the biggest public order disaster. Trump claims victory on the night based on partial votes but loses when all the votes are counted and chaos on the streets ensues.

I just watched a CNN interview with someone from the Trafalgar polling group. These guys were apparently the only ones who got Trump getting 306 last time (albeit a couple of states wrong but cancelled each other out). They're saying the Trump embarrassment factor is real and they are calling Trump getting 275 - even without PA and WI which they say are too tight to call. But Trafalgar are calling NC, Florida, Arizona and Michigan all for Trump. 

CNN themselves on the other hand are calling PA, MI, WI and AZ all blue and have Biden getting 290 (and possible more as they say Florida, NC and Georgia are too close to call).

Actually just on my way back from Florida after a five day trip.
I would be very surprised if the President does not win Florida.
He is very popular, whether it was taxi drivers, Bartenders, folks I chatted to poolside, a lot of people love him and unlike other states, they are not afraid to express their opinion.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2020, 08:25:12 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2020, 06:05:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 02, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
GMAC if Biden wins can I buy your MAGA hat off ye?
i don't have one and if I did I wouldn't wear it I don't want to invite violence on myself by unhinged liberals..

That's a good reply and accurate to.

Yeah, if there's one thing I've seen driving through NYC, upstate NY and the Philadelphia suburbs in recent weeks its that Trump supporters are deathly afraid and absolutely NOT in anyone's face about their candidate. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 08:33:52 PM
Republicans' bullshit case to try and get 127k votes thrown out in Texas has been summarily rejected by ultra conservative judge Andrew Hanen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:39:19 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Trump to win, by a big enough margin that it's over by Wednesday morning.
You are predicting that by Wednesday morning Trumps lead in the potential swing states will be bigger than the amount of uncounted votes at that point? What is your reasoning?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 02, 2020, 01:24:55 PM
No winner to be announced until December
Very possible. Beyond the 14th December and you have a constitutional crisis. Before that you still have a political crisis.

The important thing is that the votes get cast and get counted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 02, 2020, 08:46:54 PM
Want to know what the next few days and weeks will be like? Watch the movie "Recount". This is going to be this generations "hanging chad" moment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:52:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 02, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
GMAC if Biden wins can I buy your MAGA hat off ye?
i don't have one and if I did I wouldn't wear it I don't want to invite violence on myself by unhinged liberals..

Do you oppose violence or just violence against you?

Asking for a nation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 02, 2020, 09:02:10 PM
Won't the Florida result be in among the first? If Biden wins there then it's all over for Trump early doors, no amount of  whining and whinging  can pull a defeat in Florida out of the fire. Even if he wins Florida but loses in Georgia, he's still cooked.  But if Trump wins in Georgia by a decent margin similar to 2016  then I'd be worried about the rest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 02, 2020, 09:13:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 02, 2020, 09:02:10 PM
Won't the Florida result be in among the first? If Biden wins there then it's all over for Trump early doors, no amount of  whining and whinging  can pull a defeat in Florida out of the fire. Even if he wins Florida but loses in Georgia, he's still cooked.  But if Trump wins in Georgia by a decent margin similar to 2016  then I'd be worried about the rest.

Florida usually are on the ball yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

To falsely accuse or imply that someone is a racist in order to score political points (especially in the current environment) like she did during the debate is a disqualifier for me. 

The progressives on here will say, oh but she said "I'm not accusing you of being a racist" but that's exactly what she did

Don't believe me....that's fine

What about believing a senior member of Biden's campaign who called it an "outrageous attack"

What about believing the person tasked with heading up Biden's VP search committee-Chris Dodd who felt that it was a disqualifier

What about believing Joe Biden's own wife, Dr Jill Biden. "Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."

But people believe whatever they wan
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 09:33:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

To falsely accuse or imply that someone is a racist in order to score political points (especially in the current environment) like she did during the debate is a disqualifier for me. 

The progressives on here will say, oh but she said "I'm not accusing you of being a racist" but that's exactly what she did

Don't believe me....that's fine

What about believing a senior member of Biden's campaign who called it an "outrageous attack"

What about believing the person tasked with heading up Biden's VP search committee-Chris Dodd who felt that it was a disqualifier

What about believing Joe Biden's own wife, Dr Jill Biden. "Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."

But people believe whatever they wan

You are against racism, lies, false accusations and political point scoring. Tell me, what is your view on Donald Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

To falsely accuse or imply that someone is a racist in order to score political points (especially in the current environment) like she did during the debate is a disqualifier for me. 

The progressives on here will say, oh but she said "I'm not accusing you of being a racist" but that's exactly what she did

Don't believe me....that's fine

What about believing a senior member of Biden's campaign who called it an "outrageous attack"

What about believing the person tasked with heading up Biden's VP search committee-Chris Dodd who felt that it was a disqualifier

What about believing Joe Biden's own wife, Dr Jill Biden. "Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."

But people believe whatever they wan
joe is a hologram candidate voting for Biden is a vote for Harris for president and trump should have hammered that home more in the lead up to vote ,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:41:01 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 09:33:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

To falsely accuse or imply that someone is a racist in order to score political points (especially in the current environment) like she did during the debate is a disqualifier for me. 

The progressives on here will say, oh but she said "I'm not accusing you of being a racist" but that's exactly what she did

Don't believe me....that's fine

What about believing a senior member of Biden's campaign who called it an "outrageous attack"

What about believing the person tasked with heading up Biden's VP search committee-Chris Dodd who felt that it was a disqualifier

What about believing Joe Biden's own wife, Dr Jill Biden. "Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."

But people believe whatever they wan

You are against racism, lies, false accusations and political point scoring. Tell me, what is your view on Donald Trump?

Hate him-

But I voted for my financial self interest (if you count a protest vote in MA).

I didn't vote for him in 2016 because I thought he'd win the popular vote and then refuse to accept the results of the Electoral College which I thought Hillary would win. Then it was Hillary and the Democrats who refused to accepts the results of the Electoral College, so in my opinion they forefeited their right to my vote this time out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:43:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.
I think there just might be another reason a guy who calls himself "whitey" hates Kamala Harris
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 09:45:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

To falsely accuse or imply that someone is a racist in order to score political points (especially in the current environment) like she did during the debate is a disqualifier for me. 

The progressives on here will say, oh but she said "I'm not accusing you of being a racist" but that's exactly what she did

Don't believe me....that's fine

What about believing a senior member of Biden's campaign who called it an "outrageous attack"

What about believing the person tasked with heading up Biden's VP search committee-Chris Dodd who felt that it was a disqualifier

What about believing Joe Biden's own wife, Dr Jill Biden. "Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."

But people believe whatever they wan
joe is a hologram candidate voting for Biden is a vote for Harris for president and trump should have hammered that home more in the lead up to vote ,

Ahh sure you could say that about Donald and Vladimir
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 09:46:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:41:01 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 09:33:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

To falsely accuse or imply that someone is a racist in order to score political points (especially in the current environment) like she did during the debate is a disqualifier for me. 

The progressives on here will say, oh but she said "I'm not accusing you of being a racist" but that's exactly what she did

Don't believe me....that's fine

What about believing a senior member of Biden's campaign who called it an "outrageous attack"

What about believing the person tasked with heading up Biden's VP search committee-Chris Dodd who felt that it was a disqualifier

What about believing Joe Biden's own wife, Dr Jill Biden. "Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."

But people believe whatever they wan

You are against racism, lies, false accusations and political point scoring. Tell me, what is your view on Donald Trump?

Hate him-

But I voted for my financial self interest (if you count a protest vote).

You vote for Trump you must hate a lot of people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

Falsely Accusing someone of gang rape is a little different to being "mean" to someone. That was strike one, but accusing Biden of being a racist was the disqualifier for me.

And it would be poetic justice if he gets to vote in the outcome of this election

If you are not outraged at how Harris and co conducted themselves during the Kavanaugh hearings, you are no better than Trump-destroy people at any cost regardless of trust or honesty
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 09:53:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

Falsely Accusing someone of gang rape is a little different to being "mean" to someone. That was strike one, but accusing Biden of being a racist was the disqualifier for me

No disqualifiers for Donald then?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 09:53:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

Falsely Accusing someone of gang rape is a little different to being "mean" to someone. That was strike one, but accusing Biden of being a racist was the disqualifier for me

No disqualifiers for Donald then?

Plenty-but if I hate both candidates, I'm going to "vote" for the one who's best for my wallet (even though it's just a protest vote)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 09:59:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 09:53:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

Falsely Accusing someone of gang rape is a little different to being "mean" to someone. That was strike one, but accusing Biden of being a racist was the disqualifier for me

No disqualifiers for Donald then?

Plenty-but if I hate both candidates, I'm going to "vote" for the one who's best for my wallet (even though it's just a protest vote)

So they are not disqualifiers then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

Falsely Accusing someone of gang rape is a little different to being "mean" to someone. That was strike one, but accusing Biden of being a racist was the disqualifier for me.

And it would be poetic justice if he gets to vote in the outcome of this election

If you are not outraged at how Harris and co conducted themselves during the Kavanaugh hearings, you are no better than Trump-destroy people at any cost regardless of trust or honesty

So when did she falsely accuse Kavanaugh of rape?

She did make him look a tit though. His credibility was shot after her interrogation of him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:04:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie
I suppose it would be if you admire cossetted, privileged white rapists and hate black women
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??
Apparently black women need to "know their place" and bow down to cossetted, privileged white rapists
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??
Apparently black women need to "know their place" and bow down to cossetted, privileged white rapists


Hahaha-if it goes to the Supreme Court I'll crack open a beer in your honor Sid (and I don't even drink, but I will make an exception in your honor)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??

Nah-they made themselves look like fools

When the facts came out afterwards, it was all proven to be a complete fabrication

Either way, he got confirmed so they obviously didn't do that much harm to him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??

Nah-they made themselves look like fools

When the facts came out afterwards, it was all proven to be a complete fabrication

Either way, he got confirmed so they obviously didn't do that much harm to him

Well you "fuckin hate" her because she falsely accused him of rape. Tell me when this happened?

As a SC nominee he had to appear before the senate. Harris destroyed him because she asked him questions completely unrelated to the rape accusation that he failed to answer and made an absolute tit out of himself in trying to wriggle out of answering
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??

Nah-they made themselves look like fools

When the facts came out afterwards, it was all proven to be a complete fabrication

Either way, he got confirmed so they obviously didn't do that much harm to him

Well you "fuckin hate" her because she falsely accused him of rape. Tell me when this happened?

As a SC nominee he had to appear before the senate. Harris destroyed him because she asked him questions completely unrelated to the rape accusation that he failed to answer and made an absolute tit out of himself in trying to wriggle out of answering

LOL-I seriously don't know where you're getting your information-probably CNN

She made a clown of herself claiming to have some secret information when she had in fact-JACK

Per the San Francisco Chronicle

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/politics/amp/GOP-tries-to-help-Kavanaugh-after-tough-13210347.php

"When her turn came Thursday, it turned out Harris didn't have the goods after all. After another couple of courtroom-style go-rounds between veteran lawyers, Kavanaugh issued a flat-out "no" to Harris' yes-or-no question."


It's like after she took Biden out at the knees with the sneak "racist attack", she was now the front runner according to some media outlets. Then Tulsi Gabbard made mince meat of her in a subsequent debate, as did Mike Pence
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??
Apparently black women need to "know their place" and bow down to cossetted, privileged white rapists


Hahaha-if it goes to the Supreme Court I'll crack open a beer in your honor Sid (and I don't even drink, but I will make an exception in your honor)
Strange that because you always come across as if you're drunk

A bit like Barf O'Kavanaugh himself

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??
Apparently black women need to "know their place" and bow down to cossetted, privileged white rapists


Hahaha-if it goes to the Supreme Court I'll crack open a beer in your honor Sid (and I don't even drink, but I will make an exception in your honor)
Strange that because you always come across as if you're drunk

A bit like Barf O'Kavanaugh himself

Haven't drank in years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??
Apparently black women need to "know their place" and bow down to cossetted, privileged white rapists


Hahaha-if it goes to the Supreme Court I'll crack open a beer in your honor Sid (and I don't even drink, but I will make an exception in your honor)
Strange that because you always come across as if you're drunk

A bit like Barf O'Kavanaugh himself

Haven't drank in years
The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 02:48:41 PM

What consumes the Republican party now is not unlike the extreme Islamist ideology that Saudi Arabia spread throughout the world over the last 50 years

It is certainly comparable in terms of fanaticism, of being impenetrable to reason
Given the massacre which appears to have been perpetrated against the Jewish community of Vienna tonight, most likely by ISIS, it's only appropriate to remember that it's just a year since a US white supremacist, emboldened by Trump and his American Nazi party, committed mass murder at the Tree Of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, followed by a pathetic, weasel worded reaction by Trump himself

There is no basically no difference between the ideologies of Trumpism and ISIS - but there are a hell of a lot more Trumpists, and crucially, they have power

Here's a Jewish cemetery in Grand Rapids, Michigan today

https://twitter.com/ADLMichigan/status/1323367085964185600

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El2LJNdWoAAG3Q9?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 11:38:34 PM
This article from Kenya's paper of record, the Nairobi Times, is worth reading

#BREAKING Polls are set to open in 48 hours across the US as the authoritarian regime of Donald Trump attempts to consolidate its hold over the troubled, oil-rich, nuclear-armed, north American nation. Analysts are sceptical the election will end months of political violence.

African envoys have called for Americans to maintain peace during the elections and to be prepared accept the outcome of the vote. In a joint statement , the diplomats condemned recent incidents of incitement, violence and intimidation directed at opposition supporters

A team of African election observers led by the famed explorer, Milton Allimadi, who discovered the Gulu River in Europe, is en route to the seaside capital of Washington DC where they are expected to separately meet with Mr Trump and opposition candidate, Joe Biden.

Milton Allimadi, head of the African election observer group, urged US media to be responsible in its reporting, and take care not to inflame the already tense situation. "We urge American journalists to preach the gospel of peace and acceptance of election results".

The US election comes at a time when the country is reeling from a series of humanitarian disasters including a pandemic that has claimed nearly a quarter million lives and brought its economy to the brink of collapse, exacerbating already fraught ethnic tensions.

Businesses in the US capital, Washington, are boarded up as the approaching presidential election sparks widespread tension and fear. The first African journalists to travel deep into the heart of the troubled country report armed militia roaming the streets.

African aid agencies sound the alarm over the potential for post-election violence to exacerbate the already dire humanitarian situation in the crisis-wracked US. Aid workers are calling on the international community to do more to protect the civilian population.

Along with its northern neighbour, the US has long been regarded as an island of peace in an otherwise troubled region and plays host to many humanitarian agencies. The UN also has its headquarters in New York, in the more stable north-eastern part of the country.

African envoys have expressed concern over local media reports that US President, Donald Trump, intends to declare victory on Monday, a day before the country's presidential election is held. The envoys urged the autocrat to wait until all votes have been counted.

Viral images captured by African journalists who have ventured deep into the interior of the troubled US show deserted streets taken over by politically-aligned militia riding in "technicals" just a day before the country's presidential election.

Kenyans living in politically-troubled, disease-ravaged US urged to stay indoors and not to venture into the country's interior. A travel advisory issued by the Kenyan government notes heightened risk of election-related tribal violence in central and southern states.

Fearing an influx of refugees as the ethnically polarized US heads into a divisive presidential election, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has appealed for help from the international community while Mexico is reportedly considering paying for a border wall.

US autocrat Donald Trump threatens to fire the nation's top medical expert following revelations of a quiet campaign to encourage mask use by his supporters by pointing out that masks allow wearers to publicly root for incompetent racists while hiding their identities.

African observers and analysts say that many Americans are choosing to vote early and by mail to mitigate the risk of violence on election day. This trend is fueled by reports of police targeting gatherings of opposition supporters heading to polling stations.

On the eve of US elections, a well-placed source says Kenya will call an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council to discuss worsening tensions in the volatile, strategically located Western nation. Top on the agenda will be securing the country's nuclear stockpile.

UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi, appeals for funds and warns that his agency has little capacity to deal with an escalation of the ongoing humanitarian crisis in the troubled US if election-related political violence displaces huge numbers of people.

As the US heads to the polls, the African Union has urged foreign countries to desist from political interference with the elections which, it warns, could precipitate tribal violence in the ethnically volatile, nuclear-armed former superpower.

Countries such as Russia have historically been accused of meddling with US elections to prop up authoritarian puppet regimes in the north American nation, which is strategically located close to the Panama canal and considered a gateway into Latin America.

Viral video of barricades being erected around the presidential palace -known locally as the White House- in the US capital, Washington DC, has raised tensions as rumors spread that incumbent despot, Donald Trump, will not give up power if he loses tomorrow's election.

Report by African experts on US politics calls judicial independence the "weak link" in the covid-blighted nation's democracy, warning of the potential for violence if judges hand-picked by the aging autocrat, Donald Trump, determine the winner of tomorrow's election.

The report by the Royal American Society in Accra, Ghana urges African states to make it clear to the ruling US Republican party that they will not tolerate any pressure on American judges to deliver politically convenient decisions in election-related cases.

The RAS report also warns that private US media is being used by White ethnic elites to manipulate voters and to "deepen ancient tribal hatreds rooted in historical grievances over centuries of displacement, colonial subjugation, slavery and genocide".

Kenyan official denies reports that the country has told its citizens in the US to "get out while you can", says the military is developing plans for an orderly evacuation should the political situation in the crisis-wracked north American nation deteriorate further.

First group of African journalists to make it into the US tribal heartland files alarming reports of fearful locals arming themselves as the presidential election approaches. The troubled country already has more guns than people, with majority held by private citizens.

AU statement on US elections expresses "deep concern" over allegations of voter suppression and political violence; urges US officials to ensure "all eligible Americans can vote and all votes count" and to desist from employing "disproportionate force" against citizens.

Head of the AU observer mission, Milton Allimadi, says the US electoral system "would be an embarrassment in most African countries" and that the continent would be willing to share its expertise and resources as part of a "Marshall Plan" to rebuild democracy in the US.

Interviews with African expatriates show how Americans are suffering with many fearing to leave their homes due to covid-19 and election-related political violence. "It is heartbreaking to see and sad that the international community is doing nothing to help" said one.

Aid agencies launch "Adopt-An-American" campaign which lets people virtually adopt American kids for a small donation. A website will allow donors to track children's progress, visit with US families and, as a bonus, tour US homes for an authentic American experience.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:42:12 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

Falsely Accusing someone of gang rape is a little different to being "mean" to someone. That was strike one, but accusing Biden of being a racist was the disqualifier for me.

And it would be poetic justice if he gets to vote in the outcome of this election

If you are not outraged at how Harris and co conducted themselves during the Kavanaugh hearings, you are no better than Trump-destroy people at any cost regardless of trust or honesty

So when did she falsely accuse Kavanaugh of rape?

She did make him look a tit though. His credibility was shot after her interrogation of him

She didn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:55:37 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

Falsely Accusing someone of gang rape is a little different to being "mean" to someone. That was strike one, but accusing Biden of being a racist was the disqualifier for me.

And it would be poetic justice if he gets to vote in the outcome of this election

If you are not outraged at how Harris and co conducted themselves during the Kavanaugh hearings, you are no better than Trump-destroy people at any cost regardless of trust or honesty

Says the man who voted for Trump "because of his wallet", now that apparently the ill-gotten Supreme Court majority doesn't matter after all.

Give me a break with the Biden stuff. It was fair comment on her part, as we went back and forth on previously.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=11632.msg1987519#msg1987519 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=11632.msg1987519#msg1987519)

Similarly, we went back and forth on Harris and Kavanaugh. At what point did Harris know it was a supposed "false accusation"?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=11632.msg1987496#msg1987496 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=11632.msg1987496#msg1987496)

I stand by those comments.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:57:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

To falsely accuse or imply that someone is a racist in order to score political points (especially in the current environment) like she did during the debate is a disqualifier for me. 

The progressives on here will say, oh but she said "I'm not accusing you of being a racist" but that's exactly what she did

Don't believe me....that's fine

What about believing a senior member of Biden's campaign who called it an "outrageous attack"

What about believing the person tasked with heading up Biden's VP search committee-Chris Dodd who felt that it was a disqualifier

What about believing Joe Biden's own wife, Dr Jill Biden. "Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."

But people believe whatever they wan
joe is a hologram candidate voting for Biden is a vote for Harris for president and trump should have hammered that home more in the lead up to vote ,

Jaysus Gmac, you're right! If only Trump had spent the past year trying to hammer Biden for being infirm and missing a few marbles! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:01:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:42:12 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

Falsely Accusing someone of gang rape is a little different to being "mean" to someone. That was strike one, but accusing Biden of being a racist was the disqualifier for me.

And it would be poetic justice if he gets to vote in the outcome of this election

If you are not outraged at how Harris and co conducted themselves during the Kavanaugh hearings, you are no better than Trump-destroy people at any cost regardless of trust or honesty

So when did she falsely accuse Kavanaugh of rape?

She did make him look a tit though. His credibility was shot after her interrogation of him

She didn't.

Believe what you want

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/09/20/the_smearing_of_brett_kavanaugh_is_an_attack_on_the_supreme_court_141300.html


"Sen. Kamala Harris, who not long ago put unsubstantiated gang rape charges against Kavanaugh in the congressional record, claims he underwent "a sham process and his place on the Court is an insult to the pursuit of truth and justice.""
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:07:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:01:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:42:12 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

Falsely Accusing someone of gang rape is a little different to being "mean" to someone. That was strike one, but accusing Biden of being a racist was the disqualifier for me.

And it would be poetic justice if he gets to vote in the outcome of this election

If you are not outraged at how Harris and co conducted themselves during the Kavanaugh hearings, you are no better than Trump-destroy people at any cost regardless of trust or honesty

So when did she falsely accuse Kavanaugh of rape?

She did make him look a tit though. His credibility was shot after her interrogation of him

She didn't.

Believe what you want

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/09/20/the_smearing_of_brett_kavanaugh_is_an_attack_on_the_supreme_court_141300.html


"Sen. Kamala Harris, who not long ago put unsubstantiated gang rape charges against Kavanaugh in the congressional record, claims he underwent "a sham process and his place on the Court is an insult to the pursuit of truth and justice.""

You can quote all the conservative pundits you want. They don't answer the question.

Assuming for the sake of argument Ford's allegations were untrue, at what point in the process should Harris have known?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:13:59 AM
J70-it was a hit job of epic proportions and thankfully it didn't work

It was so flimsy the Democrats couldn't  bring it forward until a staffer conveniently leaked it-lol

If that's your standard for credibility, I sure hope you didn't vote for Joe Biden because the allegations against him are about as credible as those against Kavanaugh

anyway at this stage it's a mute point and I only hope Justice Kavanaugh gets to return the favor to Ms Harris with interest over the next 4 years if she and Joe get elected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 01:27:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:57:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

To falsely accuse or imply that someone is a racist in order to score political points (especially in the current environment) like she did during the debate is a disqualifier for me. 

The progressives on here will say, oh but she said "I'm not accusing you of being a racist" but that's exactly what she did

Don't believe me....that's fine

What about believing a senior member of Biden's campaign who called it an "outrageous attack"

What about believing the person tasked with heading up Biden's VP search committee-Chris Dodd who felt that it was a disqualifier

What about believing Joe Biden's own wife, Dr Jill Biden. "Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."

But people believe whatever they wan
joe is a hologram candidate voting for Biden is a vote for Harris for president and trump should have hammered that home more in the lead up to vote ,

Jaysus Gmac, you're right! If only Trump had spent the past year trying to hammer Biden for being infirm and missing a few marbles! ;D
no that Kamala Harris will be president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 03, 2020, 04:02:10 AM
Is Kavanaugh running for President? Who gives a f**k about him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 03, 2020, 04:16:01 AM
Kavanaugh might not be running, but if the election is tight enough, he might get to cast a decisive vote at some point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 03, 2020, 05:24:59 AM
QuoteFirst 2020 results:

Dixville Notch, NH

Joe Biden: 5
Donald Trump: 0 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2020, 07:16:11 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 03, 2020, 05:24:59 AM
QuoteFirst 2020 results:

Dixville Notch, NH

Joe Biden: 5
Donald Trump: 0 

Millsfield has went 16-5 to Trump.
In 2016 it went 16-4 to Trump.
Clearly this can only point to a Trump win in the electoral college. Its over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.

Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:39:19 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Trump to win, by a big enough margin that it's over by Wednesday morning.
You are predicting that by Wednesday morning Trumps lead in the potential swing states will be bigger than the amount of uncounted votes at that point? What is your reasoning?

I expect the election to have a decisive result, in that either Trump or Biden will win with more than 2 states to spare. Watching from Ireland, it's hard to gauge how the  wind is blowing in the US but if there is a wind at all it'll probably push one of the candidates to the sort of 77 electoral college seat win that Trump managed last time around.  I think Trump has the edge this time around but it could go the other way too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2020, 09:43:42 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 03, 2020, 04:16:01 AM
Kavanaugh might not be running, but if the election is tight enough, he might get to cast a decisive vote at some point.
Kavanaugh would only love to rape democracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on November 03, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.


If you're honest with yourself last time was a fluke. There will be no mistakes this time and Biden is poised for office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:54:44 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 03, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.


If you're honest with yourself last time was a fluke. There will be no mistakes this time and Biden is poised for office.

There's your presumption.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 03, 2020, 09:55:14 AM
Unless someone wins this by a large margin then no matter what the USA is fucked..

when you see the boarding up of Washington DC and the fencing around the white house, the expectation of violence from one side or the other is unreal in what is meant to be the great democracy, but that veneer has been well and truly stripped away.

The threat on votes not being counted, lack of polling stations, intimidation of voters, you'd expect this in bulgaria, or some banana republic but not the USA..

There are no winners in this one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 03, 2020, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 03, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.


If you're honest with yourself last time was a fluke. There will be no mistakes this time and Biden is poised for office.

I think it is lazy to say that the last time was a fluke. When Trump started off he showed how he could master the media and use the 'black arts' of it to manipulate mindsets. There was a disenfranchised cohort in the US, centre right, Christian working class/lower middle class who felt that they were being squeezed and Trump got into bed with them. Made them believe that he was just like them. They didn't realise that he was literally looking down on the from his tower and laughing. Enough dirt was created around Clinton to sway enough voters. It was calculated and directed.

This time round is different as there isn't as much dirt on Biden despite what Trump has tried. This time last year Trump would have romped home in basically a 'no contest', the same way Boris did. The world has changed dramatically now and the way he has handled Covid and the way the cards have fallen around Black Lives Matter etc has made things significantly harder for him to get re-elected. Every wind tells a story and how the wind blows tonight will have a great significance on the future of the world as a whole never mind the US
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:29:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??

Nah-they made themselves look like fools

When the facts came out afterwards, it was all proven to be a complete fabrication

Either way, he got confirmed so they obviously didn't do that much harm to him

Well you "fuckin hate" her because she falsely accused him of rape. Tell me when this happened?

As a SC nominee he had to appear before the senate. Harris destroyed him because she asked him questions completely unrelated to the rape accusation that he failed to answer and made an absolute tit out of himself in trying to wriggle out of answering

LOL-I seriously don't know where you're getting your information-probably CNN

She made a clown of herself claiming to have some secret information when she had in fact-JACK

Per the San Francisco Chronicle

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/politics/amp/GOP-tries-to-help-Kavanaugh-after-tough-13210347.php

"When her turn came Thursday, it turned out Harris didn't have the goods after all. After another couple of courtroom-style go-rounds between veteran lawyers, Kavanaugh issued a flat-out "no" to Harris' yes-or-no question."


It's like after she took Biden out at the knees with the sneak "racist attack", she was now the front runner according to some media outlets. Then Tulsi Gabbard made mince meat of her in a subsequent debate, as did Mike Pence

Come on man. When did she falsely accuse him of rape? This is your stated reason for "fuckin hating" her? Which you will admit is really quite strong. Post the bit of her making the false allegation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:30:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??
Apparently black women need to "know their place" and bow down to cossetted, privileged white rapists


Hahaha-if it goes to the Supreme Court I'll crack open a beer in your honor Sid (and I don't even drink, but I will make an exception in your honor)
Strange that because you always come across as if you're drunk

A bit like Barf O'Kavanaugh himself

Haven't drank in years
The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks

Back off. The man says he no longer drinks. Leave it at that would you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:31:35 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 11:38:34 PM
This article from Kenya's paper of record, the Nairobi Times, is worth reading

#BREAKING Polls are set to open in 48 hours across the US as the authoritarian regime of Donald Trump attempts to consolidate its hold over the troubled, oil-rich, nuclear-armed, north American nation. Analysts are sceptical the election will end months of political violence.

African envoys have called for Americans to maintain peace during the elections and to be prepared accept the outcome of the vote. In a joint statement , the diplomats condemned recent incidents of incitement, violence and intimidation directed at opposition supporters

A team of African election observers led by the famed explorer, Milton Allimadi, who discovered the Gulu River in Europe, is en route to the seaside capital of Washington DC where they are expected to separately meet with Mr Trump and opposition candidate, Joe Biden.

Milton Allimadi, head of the African election observer group, urged US media to be responsible in its reporting, and take care not to inflame the already tense situation. "We urge American journalists to preach the gospel of peace and acceptance of election results".

The US election comes at a time when the country is reeling from a series of humanitarian disasters including a pandemic that has claimed nearly a quarter million lives and brought its economy to the brink of collapse, exacerbating already fraught ethnic tensions.

Businesses in the US capital, Washington, are boarded up as the approaching presidential election sparks widespread tension and fear. The first African journalists to travel deep into the heart of the troubled country report armed militia roaming the streets.

African aid agencies sound the alarm over the potential for post-election violence to exacerbate the already dire humanitarian situation in the crisis-wracked US. Aid workers are calling on the international community to do more to protect the civilian population.

Along with its northern neighbour, the US has long been regarded as an island of peace in an otherwise troubled region and plays host to many humanitarian agencies. The UN also has its headquarters in New York, in the more stable north-eastern part of the country.

African envoys have expressed concern over local media reports that US President, Donald Trump, intends to declare victory on Monday, a day before the country's presidential election is held. The envoys urged the autocrat to wait until all votes have been counted.

Viral images captured by African journalists who have ventured deep into the interior of the troubled US show deserted streets taken over by politically-aligned militia riding in "technicals" just a day before the country's presidential election.

Kenyans living in politically-troubled, disease-ravaged US urged to stay indoors and not to venture into the country's interior. A travel advisory issued by the Kenyan government notes heightened risk of election-related tribal violence in central and southern states.

Fearing an influx of refugees as the ethnically polarized US heads into a divisive presidential election, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has appealed for help from the international community while Mexico is reportedly considering paying for a border wall.

US autocrat Donald Trump threatens to fire the nation's top medical expert following revelations of a quiet campaign to encourage mask use by his supporters by pointing out that masks allow wearers to publicly root for incompetent racists while hiding their identities.

African observers and analysts say that many Americans are choosing to vote early and by mail to mitigate the risk of violence on election day. This trend is fueled by reports of police targeting gatherings of opposition supporters heading to polling stations.

On the eve of US elections, a well-placed source says Kenya will call an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council to discuss worsening tensions in the volatile, strategically located Western nation. Top on the agenda will be securing the country's nuclear stockpile.

UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi, appeals for funds and warns that his agency has little capacity to deal with an escalation of the ongoing humanitarian crisis in the troubled US if election-related political violence displaces huge numbers of people.

As the US heads to the polls, the African Union has urged foreign countries to desist from political interference with the elections which, it warns, could precipitate tribal violence in the ethnically volatile, nuclear-armed former superpower.

Countries such as Russia have historically been accused of meddling with US elections to prop up authoritarian puppet regimes in the north American nation, which is strategically located close to the Panama canal and considered a gateway into Latin America.

Viral video of barricades being erected around the presidential palace -known locally as the White House- in the US capital, Washington DC, has raised tensions as rumors spread that incumbent despot, Donald Trump, will not give up power if he loses tomorrow's election.

Report by African experts on US politics calls judicial independence the "weak link" in the covid-blighted nation's democracy, warning of the potential for violence if judges hand-picked by the aging autocrat, Donald Trump, determine the winner of tomorrow's election.

The report by the Royal American Society in Accra, Ghana urges African states to make it clear to the ruling US Republican party that they will not tolerate any pressure on American judges to deliver politically convenient decisions in election-related cases.

The RAS report also warns that private US media is being used by White ethnic elites to manipulate voters and to "deepen ancient tribal hatreds rooted in historical grievances over centuries of displacement, colonial subjugation, slavery and genocide".

Kenyan official denies reports that the country has told its citizens in the US to "get out while you can", says the military is developing plans for an orderly evacuation should the political situation in the crisis-wracked north American nation deteriorate further.

First group of African journalists to make it into the US tribal heartland files alarming reports of fearful locals arming themselves as the presidential election approaches. The troubled country already has more guns than people, with majority held by private citizens.

AU statement on US elections expresses "deep concern" over allegations of voter suppression and political violence; urges US officials to ensure "all eligible Americans can vote and all votes count" and to desist from employing "disproportionate force" against citizens.

Head of the AU observer mission, Milton Allimadi, says the US electoral system "would be an embarrassment in most African countries" and that the continent would be willing to share its expertise and resources as part of a "Marshall Plan" to rebuild democracy in the US.

Interviews with African expatriates show how Americans are suffering with many fearing to leave their homes due to covid-19 and election-related political violence. "It is heartbreaking to see and sad that the international community is doing nothing to help" said one.

Aid agencies launch "Adopt-An-American" campaign which lets people virtually adopt American kids for a small donation. A website will allow donors to track children's progress, visit with US families and, as a bonus, tour US homes for an authentic American experience.

That on the other hand is a work of genius
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 10:38:37 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:29:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??

Nah-they made themselves look like fools

When the facts came out afterwards, it was all proven to be a complete fabrication

Either way, he got confirmed so they obviously didn't do that much harm to him

Well you "fuckin hate" her because she falsely accused him of rape. Tell me when this happened?

As a SC nominee he had to appear before the senate. Harris destroyed him because she asked him questions completely unrelated to the rape accusation that he failed to answer and made an absolute tit out of himself in trying to wriggle out of answering

LOL-I seriously don't know where you're getting your information-probably CNN

She made a clown of herself claiming to have some secret information when she had in fact-JACK

Per the San Francisco Chronicle

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/politics/amp/GOP-tries-to-help-Kavanaugh-after-tough-13210347.php

"When her turn came Thursday, it turned out Harris didn't have the goods after all. After another couple of courtroom-style go-rounds between veteran lawyers, Kavanaugh issued a flat-out "no" to Harris' yes-or-no question."


It's like after she took Biden out at the knees with the sneak "racist attack", she was now the front runner according to some media outlets. Then Tulsi Gabbard made mince meat of her in a subsequent debate, as did Mike Pence

Come on man. When did she falsely accuse him of rape? This is your stated reason for "fuckin hating" her? Which you will admit is really quite strong. Post the bit of her making the false allegation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/with-biden-so-old-radical-kamala-harris-should-be-nowhere-near-the-presidency%3f_amp=true


"that it was Harris who took the Brett Kavanaugh hearings to their lowest low. Harris literally read into the congressional record, not just the allegation that Kavanaugh once drunkenly jumped on top of Christine Blasey Ford, but that he regularly spiked the punch at parties in order to facilitate gang rapes of unsuspecting girls."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:38:45 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.

Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:39:19 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Trump to win, by a big enough margin that it's over by Wednesday morning.
You are predicting that by Wednesday morning Trumps lead in the potential swing states will be bigger than the amount of uncounted votes at that point? What is your reasoning?

I expect the election to have a decisive result, in that either Trump or Biden will win with more than 2 states to spare. Watching from Ireland, it's hard to gauge how the  wind is blowing in the US but if there is a wind at all it'll probably push one of the candidates to the sort of 77 electoral college seat win that Trump managed last time around.  I think Trump has the edge this time around but it could go the other way too.

An assumption that there would be an inauguration??

Surely he was just answering a question?

Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
Quote from: pbat on November 02, 2020, 09:55:59 AM
Does the senate and congress change immediately after election or everything change on inauguration day?

If Trump loses can he pass bat shit crazy policies between Tuesday and and the 20th January?

There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration

I think they will need to monitor his communications after election day to ensure that he doesn't go nuclear and send off info to Putin and his pal in North Korea. The things he accused Obama of will be exactly his playbook to try cripple the Biden administration.

You could say that was selective editing. Well selective editing by you. Weak, weak stuff

As for your prediction. It was by Wednesday morning. Still haven't explained how that will happen. It is I will add an prediction of a Trump victory
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2020, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:30:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??
Apparently black women need to "know their place" and bow down to cossetted, privileged white rapists


Hahaha-if it goes to the Supreme Court I'll crack open a beer in your honor Sid (and I don't even drink, but I will make an exception in your honor)
Strange that because you always come across as if you're drunk

A bit like Barf O'Kavanaugh himself

Haven't drank in years
The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks

Back off. The man says he no longer drinks. Leave it at that would you?

It's important that we don't submit to the extreme political correctness demanded by the far right

Say what you see, as the great Roy Walker said

Tell it like it is

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2020, 09:43:42 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 03, 2020, 04:16:01 AM
Kavanaugh might not be running, but if the election is tight enough, he might get to cast a decisive vote at some point.
Kavanaugh would only love to rape democracy

Tone it down man. You have right and hopefully history on your side. No need for the other stuff. You are being dragged down to someone else's level. It doesn't do your argument, which is also my general argument any good
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:54:44 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 03, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.


If you're honest with yourself last time was a fluke. There will be no mistakes this time and Biden is poised for office.

There's your presumption.

Are you going to call out every prediction, including those of a Trump victory and your prediction of a Trump victory as a presumption?? Or are you just going to address this tactic to one side?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:44:44 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 03, 2020, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 03, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.


If you're honest with yourself last time was a fluke. There will be no mistakes this time and Biden is poised for office.

I think it is lazy to say that the last time was a fluke. When Trump started off he showed how he could master the media and use the 'black arts' of it to manipulate mindsets. There was a disenfranchised cohort in the US, centre right, Christian working class/lower middle class who felt that they were being squeezed and Trump got into bed with them. Made them believe that he was just like them. They didn't realise that he was literally looking down on the from his tower and laughing. Enough dirt was created around Clinton to sway enough voters. It was calculated and directed.

This time round is different as there isn't as much dirt on Biden despite what Trump has tried. This time last year Trump would have romped home in basically a 'no contest', the same way Boris did. The world has changed dramatically now and the way he has handled Covid and the way the cards have fallen around Black Lives Matter etc has made things significantly harder for him to get re-elected. Every wind tells a story and how the wind blows tonight will have a great significance on the future of the world as a whole never mind the US

On the money
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:47:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 10:38:37 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:29:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??

Nah-they made themselves look like fools

When the facts came out afterwards, it was all proven to be a complete fabrication

Either way, he got confirmed so they obviously didn't do that much harm to him

Well you "fuckin hate" her because she falsely accused him of rape. Tell me when this happened?

As a SC nominee he had to appear before the senate. Harris destroyed him because she asked him questions completely unrelated to the rape accusation that he failed to answer and made an absolute tit out of himself in trying to wriggle out of answering

LOL-I seriously don't know where you're getting your information-probably CNN

She made a clown of herself claiming to have some secret information when she had in fact-JACK

Per the San Francisco Chronicle

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/politics/amp/GOP-tries-to-help-Kavanaugh-after-tough-13210347.php

"When her turn came Thursday, it turned out Harris didn't have the goods after all. After another couple of courtroom-style go-rounds between veteran lawyers, Kavanaugh issued a flat-out "no" to Harris' yes-or-no question."


It's like after she took Biden out at the knees with the sneak "racist attack", she was now the front runner according to some media outlets. Then Tulsi Gabbard made mince meat of her in a subsequent debate, as did Mike Pence

Come on man. When did she falsely accuse him of rape? This is your stated reason for "fuckin hating" her? Which you will admit is really quite strong. Post the bit of her making the false allegation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/with-biden-so-old-radical-kamala-harris-should-be-nowhere-near-the-presidency%3f_amp=true


"that it was Harris who took the Brett Kavanaugh hearings to their lowest low. Harris literally read into the congressional record, not just the allegation that Kavanaugh once drunkenly jumped on top of Christine Blasey Ford, but that he regularly spiked the punch at parties in order to facilitate gang rapes of unsuspecting girls."

You are still missing the bit with her making the false allegation. The thing I asked for and you have based your position of hatred on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2020, 10:51:36 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2020, 09:43:42 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 03, 2020, 04:16:01 AM
Kavanaugh might not be running, but if the election is tight enough, he might get to cast a decisive vote at some point.
Kavanaugh would only love to rape democracy

Tone it down man. You have right and hopefully history on your side. No need for the other stuff. You are being dragged down to someone else's level. It doesn't do your argument, which is also my general argument any good

I think the stealing of the election by a bought and paid for Supreme Court justice, fresh from the Federalist Society - who is also a credibly accused attempted rapist - would indeed amount to the rape of democracy

That's the unvarnished truth

We can either deal in the extreme form of political correctness the far right demands in order to protect their hurt feelings - or we can deal in truth

I prefer the latter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 03, 2020, 10:53:20 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:54:44 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 03, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.


If you're honest with yourself last time was a fluke. There will be no mistakes this time and Biden is poised for office.

There's your presumption.

Are you going to call out every prediction, including those of a Trump victory and your prediction of a Trump victory as a presumption?? Or are you just going to address this tactic to one side?

::) No, there's a difference between making a prediction (I've noted above that mine might be wrong) and presuming almost as a matter of inevitability that one or other of the candidates will have an inauguration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 11:02:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 01:27:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:57:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 02, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
I think this was a sneaky back door way of getting Harris elected as President
So the whole lengthy Democrat primary process was just a charade?? What is that based on?

Its not based on anything rational or logical.


Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
and I fvckin hate her
Quote

Hate is a strong word. A lazy figure of speech? If so try harder. Or do you genuinely hate her? If so why?

She was "mean" to Justice Kavanaugh. Therefore whitey loathes her and most of the dirty Democrats and media.

To falsely accuse or imply that someone is a racist in order to score political points (especially in the current environment) like she did during the debate is a disqualifier for me. 

The progressives on here will say, oh but she said "I'm not accusing you of being a racist" but that's exactly what she did

Don't believe me....that's fine

What about believing a senior member of Biden's campaign who called it an "outrageous attack"

What about believing the person tasked with heading up Biden's VP search committee-Chris Dodd who felt that it was a disqualifier

What about believing Joe Biden's own wife, Dr Jill Biden. "Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."

But people believe whatever they wan
joe is a hologram candidate voting for Biden is a vote for Harris for president and trump should have hammered that home more in the lead up to vote ,

Jaysus Gmac, you're right! If only Trump had spent the past year trying to hammer Biden for being infirm and missing a few marbles! ;D
no that Kamala Harris will be president.

That's exactly what Trump has been pushing. That Joe basically has dementia and is a puppet of Harris and AOC etc.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2020, 11:09:26 AM
Trump accusing anybody of being a puppet is just so much more projection given he's so obviously Putin's puppet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 11:12:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:13:59 AM
J70-it was a hit job of epic proportions and thankfully it didn't work

It was so flimsy the Democrats couldn't  bring it forward until a staffer conveniently leaked it-lol

If that's your standard for credibility, I sure hope you didn't vote for Joe Biden because the allegations against him are about as credible as those against Kavanaugh

anyway at this stage it's a mute point and I only hope Justice Kavanaugh gets to return the favor to Ms Harris with interest over the next 4 years if she and Joe get elected.

Same credibility apart from the woman willing to get up there before the Senate and the world to be heard, to the effect that even pundits on Fox News were horrified.

Whereas with Hunter Biden (which, if I remember correctly, you popped your head in here a few weeks ago to say YOU found credible) we have all kinds of suspect issues regarding the sourcing, and that's before you even get into the question of whether any of it, if legit, actually shows any wrongdoing on Joe Biden's part.

As for Kavanaugh, I presume you mean you hope he'll rule dispassionately as a justice should, in the interests of the constitution and the people?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 11:45:51 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:47:25 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 10:38:37 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:29:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:54:49 PM
Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist sc**bag

And Trump is a credibly accused paedophile

His supporters are silent on this

Fairly obvious why

OMG-if this goes to the Supreme Court and Kavanaugh is the deciding vote, wouldn't that be some karma for Kamala and Spartacus and Crazy Maizie

So Harris made him look an idiot and you think that should be a factor in his legal adjudication?? You vote for these people??

Nah-they made themselves look like fools

When the facts came out afterwards, it was all proven to be a complete fabrication

Either way, he got confirmed so they obviously didn't do that much harm to him

Well you "fuckin hate" her because she falsely accused him of rape. Tell me when this happened?

As a SC nominee he had to appear before the senate. Harris destroyed him because she asked him questions completely unrelated to the rape accusation that he failed to answer and made an absolute tit out of himself in trying to wriggle out of answering

LOL-I seriously don't know where you're getting your information-probably CNN

She made a clown of herself claiming to have some secret information when she had in fact-JACK

Per the San Francisco Chronicle

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/politics/amp/GOP-tries-to-help-Kavanaugh-after-tough-13210347.php

"When her turn came Thursday, it turned out Harris didn't have the goods after all. After another couple of courtroom-style go-rounds between veteran lawyers, Kavanaugh issued a flat-out "no" to Harris' yes-or-no question."


It's like after she took Biden out at the knees with the sneak "racist attack", she was now the front runner according to some media outlets. Then Tulsi Gabbard made mince meat of her in a subsequent debate, as did Mike Pence

Come on man. When did she falsely accuse him of rape? This is your stated reason for "fuckin hating" her? Which you will admit is really quite strong. Post the bit of her making the false allegation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/with-biden-so-old-radical-kamala-harris-should-be-nowhere-near-the-presidency%3f_amp=true


"that it was Harris who took the Brett Kavanaugh hearings to their lowest low. Harris literally read into the congressional record, not just the allegation that Kavanaugh once drunkenly jumped on top of Christine Blasey Ford, but that he regularly spiked the punch at parties in order to facilitate gang rapes of unsuspecting girls."

You are still missing the bit with her making the false allegation. The thing I asked for and you have based your position of hatred on

The Swetnick allegations were so outrageously false that she and Avenatti were actually referred to the DOJ for prosecution yet Harris chose to read them into the Congressional Records anyway

"Providing False Statements, Obstructing Congressional Investigations, and Conspiracy All Violate Federal Law"

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/swetnick-avenatti-referred-for-criminal-investigation

Anyway I can only hope karma comes back to her with interest


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
When did Harris read the Swetnick allegations into the congressional record?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 12:57:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
When did Harris read the Swetnick allegations into the congressional record?

She must have done. The man hates her for it so surely she must have??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 12:58:51 PM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 10:53:20 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:54:44 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 03, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.


If you're honest with yourself last time was a fluke. There will be no mistakes this time and Biden is poised for office.

There's your presumption.

Are you going to call out every prediction, including those of a Trump victory and your prediction of a Trump victory as a presumption?? Or are you just going to address this tactic to one side?

::) No, there's a difference between making a prediction (I've noted above that mine might be wrong) and presuming almost as a matter of inevitability that one or other of the candidates will have an inauguration.

He was answering a question. You do get that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 12:57:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
When did Harris read the Swetnick allegations into the congressional record?

She must have done. The man hates her for it so surely she must have??

She may well have read it into the record.

My question is the timing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 03, 2020, 01:08:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 12:58:51 PM
He was answering a question. You do get that?

I do, but I don't get why it bothered you so much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ziggy90 on November 03, 2020, 01:22:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:44:44 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 03, 2020, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 03, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.


If you're honest with yourself last time was a fluke. There will be no mistakes this time and Biden is poised for office.

I think it is lazy to say that the last time was a fluke. When Trump started off he showed how he could master the media and use the 'black arts' of it to manipulate mindsets. There was a disenfranchised cohort in the US, centre right, Christian working class/lower middle class who felt that they were being squeezed and Trump got into bed with them. Made them believe that he was just like them. They didn't realise that he was literally looking down on the from his tower and laughing. Enough dirt was created around Clinton to sway enough voters. It was calculated and directed.

This time round is different as there isn't as much dirt on Biden despite what Trump has tried. This time last year Trump would have romped home in basically a 'no contest', the same way Boris did. The world has changed dramatically now and the way he has handled Covid and the way the cards have fallen around Black Lives Matter etc has made things significantly harder for him to get re-elected. Every wind tells a story and how the wind blows tonight will have a great significance on the future of the world as a whole never mind the US

On the money

Agreed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 01:26:41 PM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 01:08:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 12:58:51 PM
He was answering a question. You do get that?

I do, but I don't get why it bothered you so much.

I was only pointing out the stupidity of you pointing out that he assuming Biden would be elected when he was answering an question to the effect of what would happen were Biden elected. I thought that stupidity deserved to be pointed out. I still do
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:32:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 12:57:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
When did Harris read the Swetnick allegations into the congressional record?

She must have done. The man hates her for it so surely she must have??

She may well have read it into the record.

My question is the timing.

I'm believe it was October 5th or 6th.  I'll post it up when I have a chance

(There was a period of time just before the nomination went through when the Democrats pulled an all nighter and read all matter of material so it would be in the permanent congressional record. I believe this is when she did it, but am open to correction. There's no East way to search the records and they are thousands of pages long)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:32:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 12:57:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
When did Harris read the Swetnick allegations into the congressional record?

She must have done. The man hates her for it so surely she must have??

She may well have read it into the record.

My question is the timing.

I'm believe it was October 5th or 6th.  I'll post it up when I have a chance

(There was a period of time just before the nomination went through when the Democrats pulled an all nighter and read all matter of material so it would be in the permanent congressional record. I believe this is when she did it, but am open to correction. There's no East way to search the records and they are thousands of pages long)

Ok.

And the Grassley release you posted earlier was from three weeks later.

At what point was the credibility of the Swetnick allegation thrown in serious doubt?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:47:12 PM
The day after the allegation was released it began to fall apart which I believe was Sept 25th/26th
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:47:12 PM
The day after the allegation was released it began to fall apart which I believe was Sept 25th/26th

Source?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 03, 2020, 02:11:23 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:44:44 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 03, 2020, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 03, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 02, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: five points on November 02, 2020, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: Roesider on November 02, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
There is a transition period but he is still in place until Biden's inauguration


The presumption here is gas. Nothing learned since 2016.

Gas you say? Why so? What presumption has Roesider made?
That Biden will have an inauguration. It might well happen but until it does it's a presumption.


If you're honest with yourself last time was a fluke. There will be no mistakes this time and Biden is poised for office.

I think it is lazy to say that the last time was a fluke. When Trump started off he showed how he could master the media and use the 'black arts' of it to manipulate mindsets. There was a disenfranchised cohort in the US, centre right, Christian working class/lower middle class who felt that they were being squeezed and Trump got into bed with them. Made them believe that he was just like them. They didn't realise that he was literally looking down on the from his tower and laughing. Enough dirt was created around Clinton to sway enough voters. It was calculated and directed.

This time round is different as there isn't as much dirt on Biden despite what Trump has tried. This time last year Trump would have romped home in basically a 'no contest', the same way Boris did. The world has changed dramatically now and the way he has handled Covid and the way the cards have fallen around Black Lives Matter etc has made things significantly harder for him to get re-elected. Every wind tells a story and how the wind blows tonight will have a great significance on the future of the world as a whole never mind the US

On the money
Not quite.
There was also another crucial factor in 2016, those democrats who didn't vote for Hilary or Trump. For example in Michigan where some 80,000 democrats cast their vote but  leaving the president choice blank  (as a form of protest) and Trump won the state by 10,000 or so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 03, 2020, 02:15:49 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 01:26:41 PM
Quote from: five points on November 03, 2020, 01:08:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 12:58:51 PM
He was answering a question. You do get that?

I do, but I don't get why it bothered you so much.

I was only pointing out the stupidity of you pointing out that he assuming Biden would be elected when he was answering an question to the effect of what would happen were Biden elected. I thought that stupidity deserved to be pointed out. I still do

Even if I made a mistake that does not signify stupidity. And no-one cares except you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:47:12 PM
The day after the allegation was released it began to fall apart which I believe was Sept 25th/26th

Source?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/classmates-defend-brett-kavanaugh-against-latest-charge/amp/

The day after the allegation 60 people who went to school with Kavanaugh and who moved in his social circles said they never heard of her, never met her and regarded her accusations as pure nonsense

That was the first crack for me (and anyone interested in the truth) that it was another c**k and bull story

Meanwhile here's what New York Mag has to say:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2018/09/julie-swetnicks-allegations-brett-kavanaugh-withdraw.html

All of the other left leaning media treated this as a real story
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 03, 2020, 03:32:46 PM
I have a hunch that it mightn't be as long a night as we think. Biden to win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:47:12 PM
The day after the allegation was released it began to fall apart which I believe was Sept 25th/26th

Source?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/classmates-defend-brett-kavanaugh-against-latest-charge/amp/

The day after the allegation 60 people who went to school with Kavanaugh and who moved in his social circles said they never heard of her, never met her and regarded her accusations as pure nonsense

That was the first crack for me (and anyone interested in the truth) that it was another c**k and bull story

Meanwhile here's what New York Mag has to say:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2018/09/julie-swetnicks-allegations-brett-kavanaugh-withdraw.html

All of the other left leaning media treated this as a real story

1. The letter of support is obviously a big plus in Kavanaugh's favour. However, if he or anyone was going around sexually assaulting women, they were hardly going to do so with an audience or publicize the fact, were they? So such a letter doesn't in itself mean that the assault didn't occur or that an investigation is not warranted, especially when it comes out in the very week another woman is testifying before the Senate on the same. Nor does the fact that they didn't know or remember her. Would you be so dismissive of an assault claim if it was your daughter or your niece?

2. The NY mag article you reference specifically calls for an investigation of her claims.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2020, 04:00:50 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 03, 2020, 03:32:46 PM
I have a hunch that it mightn't be as long a night as we think. Biden to win.
If the election has any semblance of legitimacy that will be the case

The question is not about whether Biden or Trump has enough actual support to win the election, Biden obviously does

The question is, will the fix be in

Nobody will convince me the fix is not in unless and until the fix is crushed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 04:15:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:47:12 PM
The day after the allegation was released it began to fall apart which I believe was Sept 25th/26th

Source?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/classmates-defend-brett-kavanaugh-against-latest-charge/amp/

The day after the allegation 60 people who went to school with Kavanaugh and who moved in his social circles said they never heard of her, never met her and regarded her accusations as pure nonsense

That was the first crack for me (and anyone interested in the truth) that it was another c**k and bull story

Meanwhile here's what New York Mag has to say:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2018/09/julie-swetnicks-allegations-brett-kavanaugh-withdraw.html

All of the other left leaning media treated this as a real story

1. The letter of support is obviously a big plus in Kavanaugh's favour. However, if he or anyone was going around sexually assaulting women, they were hardly going to do so with an audience or publicize the fact, were they? So such a letter doesn't in itself mean that the assault didn't occur or that an investigation is not warranted, especially when it comes out in the very week another woman is testifying before the Senate on the same. Nor does the fact that they didn't know or remember her. Would you be so dismissive of an assault claim if it was your daughter or your niece?

2. The NY mag article you reference specifically calls for an investigation of her claims.

Fair enough-you thought she and Michael Avenatti were credible. I didn't  (and 60 people who supposedly attended these same high school house parties didn't either) and the entire  story completely unraveled in the days that followed

Actually the Democrats were furious at Avenatti for getting involved because it just killed their credibility


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 04:39:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 04:15:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 01:50:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 01:47:12 PM
The day after the allegation was released it began to fall apart which I believe was Sept 25th/26th

Source?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/classmates-defend-brett-kavanaugh-against-latest-charge/amp/

The day after the allegation 60 people who went to school with Kavanaugh and who moved in his social circles said they never heard of her, never met her and regarded her accusations as pure nonsense

That was the first crack for me (and anyone interested in the truth) that it was another c**k and bull story

Meanwhile here's what New York Mag has to say:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2018/09/julie-swetnicks-allegations-brett-kavanaugh-withdraw.html

All of the other left leaning media treated this as a real story

1. The letter of support is obviously a big plus in Kavanaugh's favour. However, if he or anyone was going around sexually assaulting women, they were hardly going to do so with an audience or publicize the fact, were they? So such a letter doesn't in itself mean that the assault didn't occur or that an investigation is not warranted, especially when it comes out in the very week another woman is testifying before the Senate on the same. Nor does the fact that they didn't know or remember her. Would you be so dismissive of an assault claim if it was your daughter or your niece?

2. The NY mag article you reference specifically calls for an investigation of her claims.

Fair enough-you thought she and Michael Avenatti were credible. I didn't  (and 60 people who supposedly attended these same high school house parties didn't either) and the entire  story completely unraveled in the days that followed

Actually the Democrats were furious at Avenatti for getting involved because it just killed their credibility

I didn't know who was credible. Don't put words in my mouth. You are the one always making definitive pronouncements.

The whole point of an investigation is to get to the truth, assuming it can be got to and it doesn't end up she said/he said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 04:53:56 PM
CNN reporting high turnout and no incidents so far.

Let's hope it continues.

My wife had to turn away in NYC this morning due to the pre-work queues at our site. Hopefully it will be moving a bit quicker later this evening when we go back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 03, 2020, 04:56:00 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 03, 2020, 03:32:46 PM
I have a hunch that it mightn't be as long a night as we think. Biden to win.
That'd be nice. Is it North Carolina and Florida you seeing going that way or other rationale? Or just pure hunch?

I can't help but believe the polls understate Trump's support, like they did last time. And last time Trump got 306. Close, but not down to a single state the way Bush-Gore was.
However, I believe polls also understated Obama's and Bill Clinton's support, so it can swing both ways.

Also, not convinced early votes are all Democrats. Trump has a big support that would vote for him no matter what he does/says, so many of them wouldn't have been getting their votes in early too.

But whether it's a close call or a big win, it's going to be fascinating.

The betting odds have been interesting today. Trump has been about 15/8 most of the last week, but this morning he came into 6/4 and was like that most of the day. But now this evening he's back out to 15/8. Purely academic, but interesting all the same.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 03, 2020, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 04:53:56 PM
CNN reporting high turnout and no incidents so far.

Let's hope it continues.

My wife had to turn away in NYC this morning due to the pre-work queues at our site. Hopefully it will be moving a bit quicker later this evening when we go back.
Was today the only day you could do in-person voting in NYC?

The thought of queueing to vote would do my head in (I've a queueing-for-anything-phobia!). Especially in a state that is slam dunk for one or other like NY.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 05:17:40 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 03, 2020, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 04:53:56 PM
CNN reporting high turnout and no incidents so far.

Let's hope it continues.

My wife had to turn away in NYC this morning due to the pre-work queues at our site. Hopefully it will be moving a bit quicker later this evening when we go back.
Was today the only day you could do in-person voting in NYC?

The thought of queueing to vote would do my head in (I've a queueing-for-anything-phobia!). Especially in a state that is slam dunk for one or other like NY.

We had early voting last week.

However, there was a limited number of locations to do so (and the queues were very long in any of the ones I saw).

Whereas Election Day voting has a lot more polling locations.

My work closes for Election Day, so I don't mind if I have to go and queue for a while.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 03, 2020, 05:36:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 03, 2020, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 04:53:56 PM
CNN reporting high turnout and no incidents so far.

Let's hope it continues.

My wife had to turn away in NYC this morning due to the pre-work queues at our site. Hopefully it will be moving a bit quicker later this evening when we go back.
Was today the only day you could do in-person voting in NYC?

The thought of queueing to vote would do my head in (I've a queueing-for-anything-phobia!). Especially in a state that is slam dunk for one or other like NY.

Our early voting location was fairly close, on the first day, a Saturday the line was 3 hours. During the week my wife was walking by it and saw that the line was very short, I went out voted and was back home in just over half an hour. This is the first year that NYC has done early voting, hopefully it will continue. Longest line I have had was 2008, it took almost 2 hours before work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 06:00:52 PM
First time I voted in a Presidential election was 2004

The guy who was directly in front of me in the line had just lost his son in Iraq

Doddering octogenarian poll worker couldn't find his name in the book

I thought he was going to seriously blow a gasket

I now vote exclusively absentee or early because of my travel schedule. Haven't set foot in a polling booth on Election Day for over a decade
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 03, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Jeez, CNN just had a report from a polling center in a place called Londonderry! (in New Hampshire)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 06:32:54 PM
I enjoy going to the polling station.

Seems more real than doing it by post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
I remember I didn't vote in 2012.

Went down to the local catholic school which was the local polling station, queued up for an hour with my then one year old child in my arms, and looking like I'd still have to wait a couple more hours, just said "f**k it" in the end. Only so much you can do with a young kid.

Luckily Obama wasn't depending on my vote in NY!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 03, 2020, 06:49:48 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 03, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Jeez, CNN just had a report from a polling center in a place called Londonderry! (in New Hampshire)

It is very near Derry, New Hampshire

(https://i.redd.it/xcv37nswqmt41.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 03, 2020, 06:49:58 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 03, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
Jeez, CNN just had a report from a polling center in a place called Londonderry! (in New Hampshire)

There's a Derry right beside it too

(https://i.postimg.cc/tg2CvgGq/Screen-Shot-2020-11-03-at-10-49-19-AM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on November 03, 2020, 07:07:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 06:00:52 PM
First time I voted in a Presidential election was 2004

The guy who was directly in front of me in the line had just lost his son in Iraq

Doddering octogenarian poll worker couldn't find his name in the book

I thought he was going to seriously blow a gasket

I now vote exclusively absentee or early because of my travel schedule. Haven't set foot in a polling booth on Election Day for over a decade

Who did the father vote for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 03, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
I remember I didn't vote in 2012.

Went down to the local catholic school which was the local polling station, queued up for an hour with my then one year old child in my arms, and looking like I'd still have to wait a couple more hours, just said "f**k it" in the end. Only so much you can do with a young kid.

Luckily Obama wasn't depending on my vote in NY!

That's madness, should be in and out in 15mins max.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 07:17:25 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 03, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
I remember I didn't vote in 2012.

Went down to the local catholic school which was the local polling station, queued up for an hour with my then one year old child in my arms, and looking like I'd still have to wait a couple more hours, just said "f**k it" in the end. Only so much you can do with a young kid.

Luckily Obama wasn't depending on my vote in NY!

That's madness, should be in and out in 15mins max.
got a mail in ballot sent to my home 3 weeks ago filled it out at my leisure and dropped it off this morning at a drop box location close to where I'm working took about 2 mins .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 03, 2020, 07:25:15 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 03, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
I remember I didn't vote in 2012.

Went down to the local catholic school which was the local polling station, queued up for an hour with my then one year old child in my arms, and looking like I'd still have to wait a couple more hours, just said "f**k it" in the end. Only so much you can do with a young kid.

Luckily Obama wasn't depending on my vote in NY!

That's madness, should be in and out in 15mins max.

People stand in queues here for much longer than an hour.  Eleven hours for this family.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54532189 (https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54532189)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 08:02:22 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 03, 2020, 07:07:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 06:00:52 PM
First time I voted in a Presidential election was 2004

The guy who was directly in front of me in the line had just lost his son in Iraq

Doddering octogenarian poll worker couldn't find his name in the book

I thought he was going to seriously blow a gasket

I now vote exclusively absentee or early because of my travel schedule. Haven't set foot in a polling booth on Election Day for over a decade

Who did the father vote for?

Unfortunately I voted for Bush (but againI lived in an overwhelming blue state at that stage, so it was just a token vote)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 08:05:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 03, 2020, 07:07:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2020, 06:00:52 PM
First time I voted in a Presidential election was 2004

The guy who was directly in front of me in the line had just lost his son in Iraq

Doddering octogenarian poll worker couldn't find his name in the book

I thought he was going to seriously blow a gasket

I now vote exclusively absentee or early because of my travel schedule. Haven't set foot in a polling booth on Election Day for over a decade

Who did the father vote for?

Hard to know, but in subsequent years I saw Democratic signs outside his house. He possibly switched after he realized that Bush was lying to everyone about the Iraq War
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2020, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 03, 2020, 07:25:15 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 03, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
I remember I didn't vote in 2012.

Went down to the local catholic school which was the local polling station, queued up for an hour with my then one year old child in my arms, and looking like I'd still have to wait a couple more hours, just said "f**k it" in the end. Only so much you can do with a young kid.

Luckily Obama wasn't depending on my vote in NY!

That's madness, should be in and out in 15mins max.

People stand in queues here for much longer than an hour.  Eleven hours for this family.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54532189 (https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54532189)

Not saying that it can't happen, but going to vote on the first day of early voting is like going shopping the day after Thanksgiving and standing in line for hours for nothing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2020, 08:13:29 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 03, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
I remember I didn't vote in 2012.

Went down to the local catholic school which was the local polling station, queued up for an hour with my then one year old child in my arms, and looking like I'd still have to wait a couple more hours, just said "f**k it" in the end. Only so much you can do with a young kid.

Luckily Obama wasn't depending on my vote in NY!

That's madness, should be in and out in 15mins max.

My wife and I went through her postal ballot together. It took about an hour's work to decide how to vote for everything. Presidential election is quick enough, state assembly is quick too. It's the statewide propositions, local ballots, county board of supervisors, school districts, local city councils etc. that take a bit more time. You have to look up the candidates if you've never heard of them, look up the ballot initiatives, who's funding them, etc.. I can see why it'd take a while to physically cast the vote.

If voting in person you're supposed to look that stuff up ahead of time, fill in a practice ballot, and then on election day you do a data-entry job at the polling booth. Still time-consuming though. Voter suppression doesn't help.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2020, 08:44:35 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/live-blog/election-day-2020-live-updates-n1245892/ncrd1245964?icid=election_nav#liveBlogHeader

Trump campaign asks Pennsylvania counties for sensitive election security information

President Trump's campaign asked at least three counties in Pennsylvania for a rundown of highly specific election security plans — including ballot storage locations and transportation details — according to an email obtained by NBC News. The Pennsylvania secretary of state has advised counties not to disclose election security information to any third parties and has reached out to the FBI.

Election officials in Cumberland, Mercer and Montour counties — all counties that are delaying mail-in ballot canvassing until Wednesday morning — received the email from a Gmail address connected to a Trump campaign volunteer.

Cumberland County Commissioner Gary Eichelberger said that in his 16 years in office, he has "never seen anything like" the Trump campaign's request.

A spokesperson for Trump's campaign said that the request was made to evaluate the differences in voting processes across jurisdictions.

Citing a "slew of Democrat efforts to change election rules at the last minute, and the resulting pressure on election officials," the spokesperson wrote that the Trump campaign is seeking to "understand how and what officials are planning as a result."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 03, 2020, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2020, 08:13:29 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 03, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
I remember I didn't vote in 2012.

Went down to the local catholic school which was the local polling station, queued up for an hour with my then one year old child in my arms, and looking like I'd still have to wait a couple more hours, just said "f**k it" in the end. Only so much you can do with a young kid.

Luckily Obama wasn't depending on my vote in NY!

That's madness, should be in and out in 15mins max.

My wife and I went through her postal ballot together. It took about an hour's work to decide how to vote for everything. Presidential election is quick enough, state assembly is quick too. It's the statewide propositions, local ballots, county board of supervisors, school districts, local city councils etc. that take a bit more time. You have to look up the candidates if you've never heard of them, look up the ballot initiatives, who's funding them, etc.. I can see why it'd take a while to physically cast the vote.

If voting in person you're supposed to look that stuff up ahead of time, fill in a practice ballot, and then on election day you do a data-entry job at the polling booth. Still time-consuming though. Voter suppression doesn't help.

I get ya, didn't realise their was multiple voting categories.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 09:23:00 PM
Anyone see the video of Biden in Philadelphia today introducing his granddaughter Natalie to crowd I'd like you to meet my son beau biden ,  ffs the man should be at home permanently taking care of himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on November 03, 2020, 09:37:27 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 03, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
I remember I didn't vote in 2012.

Went down to the local catholic school which was the local polling station, queued up for an hour with my then one year old child in my arms, and looking like I'd still have to wait a couple more hours, just said "f**k it" in the end. Only so much you can do with a young kid.

Luckily Obama wasn't depending on my vote in NY!

That's madness, should be in and out in 15mins max.

Voted in person yesterday and it was very straight forward, took about 3 mins to get to the poling booth, about 10 mins to go through all the items being voted for and was out the door. Lots of stations for folks to vote and lots of people directing things. I'm in CA which pretty much means my vote is useless in the presidential race.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2020, 09:54:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 09:23:00 PM
Anyone see the video of Biden in Philadelphia today introducing his granddaughter Natalie to crowd I'd like you to meet my son beau biden ,  ffs the man should be at home permanently taking care of himself.

At least he's not grabbing pussy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 10:06:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2020, 09:54:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 09:23:00 PM
Anyone see the video of Biden in Philadelphia today introducing his granddaughter Natalie to crowd I'd like you to meet my son beau biden ,  ffs the man should be at home permanently taking care of himself.

At least he's not grabbing pussy
no he's  not but if he doesn't know the difference between his dead son and his granddaughter he shouldn't be running for president, I feel sorry for the man .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 09:23:00 PM
Anyone see the video of Biden in Philadelphia today introducing his granddaughter Natalie to crowd I'd like you to meet my son beau biden ,  ffs the man should be at home permanently taking care of himself.

Saw it. Not much to see. I don't anybody credible believes he was looking at his dead son. He was introducing his son's daughter. He didn't complete the sentence and then did so.

Sentences can be tricky

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Elhyo-_fR0E


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2020, 10:11:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 10:06:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2020, 09:54:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 09:23:00 PM
Anyone see the video of Biden in Philadelphia today introducing his granddaughter Natalie to crowd I'd like you to meet my son beau biden ,  ffs the man should be at home permanently taking care of himself.

At least he's not grabbing pussy
no he's  not but if he doesn't know the difference between his dead son and his granddaughter he shouldn't be running for president, I feel sorry for the man .

And someone shouldn't be grabbing pussies and wanting to date his daughter, but hey ho some people like that type of guy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 03, 2020, 10:22:50 PM
Interesting exit poll from CNN.
4% said they only made up their mind on who to vote for in the last week. Four years ago the figure was 13%.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: balladmaker on November 03, 2020, 10:27:29 PM
College going voters up, non-college educated voters down ... Carlingford could be about to get its first President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2020, 10:44:12 PM
34% of voters in CNN poll said the economy was the biggest issue. Racial inequality was just 21%. Bodes well for the President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 03, 2020, 10:48:43 PM
Even the voter analysis exit polls on Fox favouring Biden issues.

63% saying the country going in the wrong direction

72% say move to a government funded healthcare plan

72% say illegal immigrants should have pathway to citizenship

61% believe abortion should be legal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2020, 10:55:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 03, 2020, 10:48:43 PM
Even the voter analysis exit polls on Fox favouring Biden issues.

63% saying the country going in the wrong direction

72% say move to a government funded healthcare plan

72% say illegal immigrants should have pathway to citizenship

61% believe abortion should be legal.

CNN polls very encouraging for republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 03, 2020, 11:16:47 PM
Plenty of CNN polls encouraging for Dems as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2020, 11:26:44 PM
John King loves bringing up Vigo county. Every election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2020, 11:40:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2020, 09:54:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2020, 09:23:00 PM
Anyone see the video of Biden in Philadelphia today introducing his granddaughter Natalie to crowd I'd like you to meet my son beau biden ,  ffs the man should be at home permanently taking care of himself.

At least he's not grabbing pussy
Show me a parent who doesn't get their kids' names mixed up. Used to happen in our house all the time. I sometimes get my daughter and my cat's names mixed up FFS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2020, 11:46:11 PM
Voting in Harris County, Texas, a Democratic stronghold where the Rethuglicans did their damndest to suppress the vote, is posting voting numbers well beyond projections.

Texas political observers have pegged 12 million as the magic number for total votes cast for Democrats to flip the state, and almost 10 million votes were counted by Halloween, according to the US Elections Project.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 03, 2020, 11:48:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2020, 11:26:44 PM
John King loves bringing up Vigo county. Every election.

The man just loves this night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 12:04:46 AM
Fox calling Virginia for Biden right off the bat!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:18:20 AM
Florida, per CNN:

Biden 51.2
Trump 47.9

After 34%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:26:44 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:18:20 AM
Florida, per CNN:

Biden 51.2
Trump 47.9

After 34%

Munya.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 12:28:52 AM
Florida 51% in

Trump 50.3
Biden 48.8

85% of miami-dade already in too. Biden underperforming in that county.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:28:55 AM
Miami looking worrying for Biden. Trump already 120k up on his two vote there since 2016.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:32:53 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 12:28:52 AM
Florida 51% in

Trump 50.3
Biden 48.8

85% of miami-dade already in too. Biden underperforming in that county.

I preferred Gallsman's data, can we have that back?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 12:33:37 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:28:55 AM
Miami looking worrying for Biden. Trump already 120k up on his two vote there since 2016.

Panhandle vote still to come in. Florida slipping away from Biden. He only leads Miami-dade by 9 points, 9!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:35:57 AM
Where do the absentee ballots factor into this counting process. Florida started counting days ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 12:44:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:35:57 AM
Where do the absentee ballots factor into this counting process. Florida started counting days ago.

Absentee/Mail in ballots are counted first in FL I believe (so not looking particularly good for Biden if this trend holds). Panhandle polls still open which is heavy Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 12:47:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 12:44:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:35:57 AM
Where do the absentee ballots factor into this counting process. Florida started counting days ago.

Absentee/Mail in ballots are counted first in FL I believe (so not looking particularly good for Biden if this trend holds). Panhandle polls still open which is heavy Trump

Though Biden now has a 140k lead. Panhandle could eat that up.

Trump has shortened to 11/10.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:48:15 AM
It's ok, Florida is over. Ewan MacKenna has declared that "serious sources" are saying Trump has already won FL.

f**k democracy and stopping the rise of 21st century fascism, I now want Biden to win Judy to laugh at the state of that lying, contrarian, fantasist f**k.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on November 04, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
Trump's price shrinking on the betting exchanges all the time. He was approx 2/1 an hour ago down to roughly 5/4 now....

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 12:52:35 AM
It was said on POTUS last week that if Trump wins FL it is no longer a 90/10 race in favor of Biden

It becomes a 65/35 race
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 01:01:01 AM
Quote from: Boycey on November 04, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
Trump's price shrinking on the betting exchanges all the time. He was approx 2/1 an hour ago down to roughly 5/4 now....

Evens now. Has anyone checked if Sid is ok?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on November 04, 2020, 01:07:45 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 01:01:01 AM
Quote from: Boycey on November 04, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
Trump's price shrinking on the betting exchanges all the time. He was approx 2/1 an hour ago down to roughly 5/4 now....

Evens now. Has anyone checked if Sid is ok?

Exchanges moving slightly back towards Biden now. A lot of shrewd people in and out with their profit in their pockets already....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 01:25:02 AM
Biden to win North carolina and Ohio?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 01:25:02 AM
Biden to win North carolina and Ohio?

New york times has north carolina tilting trump, and Ohio has lots of red counties to come in. They'll probably both go trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 01:33:43 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 01:25:02 AM
Biden to win North carolina and Ohio?

Looking good so far. Long night ahead assuming Trump wraps up Florida. Lookd like Republicans have done a brilliant job in Miami with Little Marco's friends. Some of the Cubans would see being offered a flu jab as evidence of a Marxist conspiracy. Very interesting as Trump down quite a bit in a few places like the panhandle and Biden outperforming Hilary from four years ago, so GOP gain and Biden underperformance in Miami swinging the whole state.

John King, say what you will about CNN's coverage, is absolutely brilliant at this stuff. Putts Marr and Vine to shame.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 01:57:39 AM
Biden starting to look very good in Ohio. Trump underperforming everywhere in the state, Biden really outperforming Hilary. Ohio a good bellwether for the rest of the rust belt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 02:10:40 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 01:25:02 AM
Biden to win North carolina and Ohio?

New york times has north carolina tilting trump, and Ohio has lots of red counties to come in. They'll probably both go trump.

Yet CBS are still giving NC as tilting Biden, Trump needs to win more than 55% of remaining votes and this does not seem certain by any means. I expect it will be very close, not sure what that implies for anywhere else.

Odds are now moving towards parity for Trump and Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:18:44 AM
Donald Trump now the favourite for the electoral college with Bet365 and paddy power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 02:22:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:18:44 AM
Donald Trump now the favourite for the electoral college with Bet365 and paddy power.

NC, GA, TX , FL , OH all looking good for Trump (per CNN)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:24:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 02:22:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:18:44 AM
Donald Trump now the favourite for the electoral college with Bet365 and paddy power.

NC, GA, TX , FL , OH all looking good for Trump (per CNN)

I said a few dozen pages back Biden would regret stumping for votes in GA and Texas. It looks like they're going to get caught out again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 02:31:19 AM
Biden 2/1 now.
I've given up on America, I'm off to bed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:35:39 AM
What info/data is Paddy looking at or are their actuaries watching CNN like the rest of us?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:35:58 AM
Trump is now 3/10 to win the election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 04, 2020, 02:36:27 AM
I give up stupid c***ts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:37:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:35:39 AM
What info/data is Paddy looking at or are their actuaries watching CNN like the rest of us?

CNN know everything that the bookies do. They just are not reporting it. They're still pushing the "Biden can win Texas" line ffs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 04, 2020, 02:40:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:37:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:35:39 AM
What info/data is Paddy looking at or are their actuaries watching CNN like the rest of us?

CNN know everything that the bookies do. They just are not reporting it. They're still pushing the "Biden can win Texas" line ffs.
Fox news has been the most positive leaning democrat info I've seen :o what's up with that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:41:20 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 04, 2020, 02:40:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:37:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:35:39 AM
What info/data is Paddy looking at or are their actuaries watching CNN like the rest of us?

CNN know everything that the bookies do. They just are not reporting it. They're still pushing the "Biden can win Texas" line ffs.
Fox news has been the most positive leaning democrat info I've seen :o what's up with that?

I saw they had Biden at 87% chance for North carolina not that long ago! :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 02:44:06 AM
Think I'll hit for bed

Very few expected Trump to be this close (including me).

The polls look to be dead wrong all over again even if Biden wins

FFS CNN just said VA might even be competitive

Pundits are beginning to get worried

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:44:31 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:37:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:35:39 AM
What info/data is Paddy looking at or are their actuaries watching CNN like the rest of us?

CNN know everything that the bookies do. They just are not reporting it. They're still pushing the "Biden can win Texas" line ffs.

What aren't they reporting? They're reporting everything down to the individual vote per county.

Paddy has to follow the money like, which is influenced by what's at home watching the news.

They haven't pushed a line at all on Texas. They keep reiterating that early vote favours Biden and constitutes a large portion of the count to date.

Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:41:20 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 04, 2020, 02:40:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:37:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:35:39 AM
What info/data is Paddy looking at or are their actuaries watching CNN like the rest of us?

CNN know everything that the bookies do. They just are not reporting it. They're still pushing the "Biden can win Texas" line ffs.
Fox news has been the most positive leaning democrat info I've seen :o what's up with that?

I saw they had Biden at 87% chance for North carolina not that long ago! :o

CNN have not claimed this at all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on November 04, 2020, 02:44:45 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:41:20 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 04, 2020, 02:40:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:37:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:35:39 AM
What info/data is Paddy looking at or are their actuaries watching CNN like the rest of us?

CNN know everything that the bookies do. They just are not reporting it. They're still pushing the "Biden can win Texas" line ffs.
Fox news has been the most positive leaning democrat info I've seen :o what's up with that?

I saw they had Biden at 87% chance for North carolina not that long ago! :o

Breaking news from CNN
Oh wait 😂😂
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on November 04, 2020, 02:44:54 AM
Exchange/bookies money is shrewd traders crunching numbers and running complicated programs on data. It's huge business guys deal on it like the stock exchange.

There's been 32million traded on it since I started looking at it several hours ago and their total book on it is currently 410 million  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:45:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 02:44:06 AM
Think I'll hit for bed

Very few expected Trump to be this close (including me).

The polls look to be dead wrong all over again even if Biden wins

FFS CNN just said VA might even be competitive

Pundits are beginning to get worried

Absolutely. The shine on Nate Silver tarnished all over again. Polling models are completely broken.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 02:50:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:45:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 02:44:06 AM
Think I'll hit for bed

Very few expected Trump to be this close (including me).

The polls look to be dead wrong all over again even if Biden wins

FFS CNN just said VA might even be competitive

Pundits are beginning to get worried

Absolutely. The shine on Nate Silver tarnished all over again. Polling models are completely broken.

Michael Smerconish had the guy from Trafalgar polling on a couple of times last week. He laid out a pretty convincing case as to why his methodology was more accurate

I just thought that the adjustments the pollsters made after 2016, they wouldn't screw up again

I also wonder how useful polls are when you have record turnout
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 02:51:30 AM
Very ominous even at this stage.

Biden will need WI, MI, PA to do this. Looking at Latino vote it's hard to see Biden getting Arizona.

If Virginia flips that's a huge blow!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: weareros on November 04, 2020, 02:51:40 AM
Bookies is just foreign money speculating. Reality if Biden wins Penn and Ohio, he wins.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 02:51:51 AM
Not a trump fan but jesus, CNN are a disgrace with their reporting. Switched over to CBS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:52:20 AM
As King keeps repeating, perhaps reluctantly, the incredible turnout is better for democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:53:08 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 02:51:51 AM
Not a trump fan but jesus, CNN are a disgrace with their reporting. Switched over to CBS

What exactly do you find disgraceful about it? They're talking about numbers like.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:54:18 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 02:51:30 AM
Very ominous even at this stage.

Biden will need WI, MI, PA to do this. Looking at Latino vote it's hard to see Biden getting Arizona.

If Virginia flips that's a huge blow!

Virginia a strange one. Fox called it for Biden when the polls closed, but trumps vote has been sizeable and consistent throughout the night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 02:55:35 AM
The fix is in, just as I predicted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:57:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:53:08 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 02:51:51 AM
Not a trump fan but jesus, CNN are a disgrace with their reporting. Switched over to CBS

What exactly do you find disgraceful about it? They're talking about numbers like.

Theyre still trying to push the narrative that Biden can win states the bookies have had him at 1/7 for the last hour. Theres no way odds of 1/7 is the bookies "following the money ".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 02:58:02 AM
Fox by all accounts are having trouble with their models they've been doom and gloom all night and it seems their projections have been off everyone else projecting things to be much closer now!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:58:59 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 02:57:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:53:08 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 02:51:51 AM
Not a trump fan but jesus, CNN are a disgrace with their reporting. Switched over to CBS

What exactly do you find disgraceful about it? They're talking about numbers like.

Theyre still trying to push the narrative that Biden can win states the bookies have had him at 1/7 for the last hour. Theres no way odds of 1/7 is the bookies "following the money ".

Which ones?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 04, 2020, 03:02:28 AM
Lindsey graham holds on in sc after his opponent raised over 100 million.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:02:40 AM
Ohio

PP have Trump 1/7 here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:09:07 AM
The rust belt states not going to count all their absentee ballots tonight... this is gonna be a shit show for the next 3 days!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 03:10:38 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:53:08 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 02:51:51 AM
Not a trump fan but jesus, CNN are a disgrace with their reporting. Switched over to CBS

What exactly do you find disgraceful about it? They're talking about numbers like.

I don't watch any US TV tbh so I wouldn't have been aware of how biased it is. For example, they were flat out reporting FL until it was clear trump was winning, barely a mention of it since. It's not reporting, it's cheerleading

I'm flabbergasted by what's happening with these results
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 03:10:55 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2020, 03:02:28 AM
Lindsey graham holds on in sc after his opponent raised over 100 million.

Susan Collins held on in Maine

Interesting that Bloomberg's $100M made absolutely no difference in FL

Still think Biden could pull it out, but my God, how did the Democrats misread the country so badly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 03:11:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:02:40 AM
Ohio

PP have Trump 1/7 here.

1/14 now. John King still talking like its a 50:50 race.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 03:12:14 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 03:10:38 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:53:08 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 02:51:51 AM
Not a trump fan but jesus, CNN are a disgrace with their reporting. Switched over to CBS

What exactly do you find disgraceful about it? They're talking about numbers like.

I don't watch any US TV tbh so I wouldn't have been aware of how biased it is. For example, they were flat out reporting FL until it was clear trump was winning, barely a mention of it since. It's not reporting, it's cheerleading

I'm flabbergasted by what's happening with these results

And none of them will call it for him, even though it's done, because they don't want to give his voters a boost while the polls are still open in AZ and NV
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 03:13:16 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:02:40 AM
Ohio

PP have Trump 1/7 here.

Back to 1/4 now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: weareros on November 04, 2020, 03:15:41 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 03:10:38 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 02:53:08 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 02:51:51 AM
Not a trump fan but jesus, CNN are a disgrace with their reporting. Switched over to CBS

What exactly do you find disgraceful about it? They're talking about numbers like.

I don't watch any US TV tbh so I wouldn't have been aware of how biased it is. For example, they were flat out reporting FL until it was clear trump was winning, barely a mention of it since. It's not reporting, it's cheerleading

I'm flabbergasted by what's happening with these results

Agree with that. I started watching CNN. All Florida and nothing since. Stopped watching. Want Biden to win. But want objectivity. Hard to find reliable US media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 03:15:48 AM
Several hundred thousand early ballots in PA not being counted tonight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 03:16:22 AM
Miamis Cuban population being cancelled on Twitter. Apparently they aren't even real Latinos!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 04, 2020, 03:25:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 03:10:55 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2020, 03:02:28 AM
Lindsey graham holds on in sc after his opponent raised over 100 million.

Susan Collins held on in Maine

Interesting that Bloomberg's $100M made absolutely no difference in FL

Still think Biden could pull it out, but my God, how did the Democrats misread the country so badly
the ex cons must have forgotten to vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 03:31:01 AM
Why havent they called Florida yet??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 04, 2020, 03:32:55 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 03:31:01 AM
Why havent they called Florida yet??
put it in the w column
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 04, 2020, 03:35:37 AM
Arizona showing some hope for Biden
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:46:09 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 03:31:01 AM
Why havent they called Florida yet??

Yeah is there something up with Florida?? It's looked like an easy call for an hour now!

Talk that Virginia hasn't called their early voting yet so Biden has a good chance to hold.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 03:48:03 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:46:09 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 03:31:01 AM
Why havent they called Florida yet??

Yeah is there something up with Florida?? It's looked like an easy call for an hour now!

Talk that Virginia hasn't called their early voting yet so Biden has a good chance to hold.

Someone said the NYT called it hours ago.

Somewhat worryingly, it might all come down to absentee votes in the rust belt and inevitable litigation and prolongation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 04, 2020, 03:48:46 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:46:09 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 03:31:01 AM
Why havent they called Florida yet??

Yeah is there something up with Florida?? It's looked like an easy call for an hour now!

Talk that Virginia hasn't called their early voting yet so Biden has a good chance to hold.
after gore bush they are very hesitant to call it early
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:06:47 AM
Florida done but as said hesitant to call. States don't want to end up in the SC.

Virginia in play but looking red for sure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:08:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:06:47 AM
Florida done but as said hesitant to call. States don't want to end up in the SC.

Virginia in play but looking red for sure.

Fox called Virginia blue as soon as the polls closed. Its been a strange night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:10:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:08:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:06:47 AM
Florida done but as said hesitant to call. States don't want to end up in the SC.

Virginia in play but looking red for sure.

Fox called Virginia blue as soon as the polls closed. Its been a strange night.

Seems like there's urban votes still to come in there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 04:18:49 AM
Yeah Virginia early ballots are coming later... it should stay blue.

Similar Ohio isn't as wide as it seems there are a significant number of Democrat votes to be counted. Looks like it won't be enough though!

PA, MI, WI officials all saying they aren't calling it tonight!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:20:59 AM
Regardless of everything else, it's cracking entertainment. If I was staying up for Sunday or Monday night football or boxing or UFC I'd have taken asleep hours ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 04, 2020, 04:21:15 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:08:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:06:47 AM
Florida done but as said hesitant to call. States don't want to end up in the SC.

Virginia in play but looking red for sure.

Fox called Virginia blue as soon as the polls closed. Its been a strange night.

There is still a lot of votes to come in from Fairfax county which is the main DC suburb area, should be strongly Democratic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:27:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:02:40 AM
Ohio

PP have Trump 1/7 here.

Odds closing a bit now, 8/15 and 7/5
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 04:31:50 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:20:59 AM
Regardless of everything else, it's cracking entertainment. If I was staying up for Sunday or Monday night football or boxing or UFC I'd have taken asleep hours ago.

Yeah it's theatre really I'm flicking between Beeb, CNN (John King is far and away the best at what he's doing btw) and Fox (who's projections are all over the shop).

Nothing is getting sorted this evening not sure how much longer I can stay up!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 04:32:43 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:27:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:02:40 AM
Ohio

PP have Trump 1/7 here.

Odds closing a bit now, 8/15 and 7/5

Sorry Trump was 1/7 to win Ohio... he's 4/6 overall now this is going to be tight!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:33:20 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 04:31:50 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:20:59 AM
Regardless of everything else, it's cracking entertainment. If I was staying up for Sunday or Monday night football or boxing or UFC I'd have taken asleep hours ago.

Yeah it's theatre really I'm flicking between Beeb, CNN (John King is far and away the best at what he's doing btw) and Fox (who's projections are all over the shop).

Nothing is getting sorted this evening not sure how much longer I can stay up!!

Same. This could run for days or weeks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:34:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 04:32:43 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:27:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:02:40 AM
Ohio

PP have Trump 1/7 here.

Odds closing a bit now, 8/15 and 7/5

Sorry Trump was 1/7 to win Ohio... he's 4/6 overall now this is going to be tight!

He was 1/7 overall briefly but widely available @ 1/5 overall for a good while
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:36:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected

How many of those 3 does Biden need?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:36:57 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected
And all the absentee ballot controversy and litigation that comes with it.

Fox calling AZ for Biden, which would be the first state to flip.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:39:22 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:36:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected

How many of those 3 does Biden need?

With AZ, assuming no other changes, he needs PA and MI.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:48:14 AM
Biden now evens with the bookies, its back to almost 50 50!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:49:24 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:48:14 AM
Biden now evens with the bookies, its back to almost 50 50!

Christ, how's a man supposed to go to bed ffs  >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 04:50:35 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:36:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected

How many of those 3 does Biden need?

2 outta 3!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:51:23 AM
I've a call in 2.5 hours ffs. Have at least moved from scotch to tea and biscuits.

AZ for Biden, a million early votes to be counted in PA, Virginia back in play with those votes from Fairfax county counted.

All to play for!

Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:48:14 AM
Biden now evens with the bookies, its back to almost 50 50!

Bookies are reacting to the numbers coming through.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:54:12 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected

Ehhh no. We were told that Biden had a plethora of paths to 270, of which one was the rust belt. Trump was the one who had to run the board and now that isnt the case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:55:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 04:50:35 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:36:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected

How many of those 3 does Biden need?

2 outta 3!!
The 2 biggest ones, or all 3. Wisconsin and minnesota without Penn is no good for Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:00:32 AM
Michigan, not Minnesota.

Nevada could have an impact as well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 05:04:21 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:55:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 04:50:35 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:36:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected

How many of those 3 does Biden need?

2 outta 3!!
The 2 biggest ones, or all 3. Wisconsin and minnesota without Penn is no good for Biden.

Not necessarily if Biden has the congressional districts I think?

This is mental!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 05:08:25 AM
Arizona will be a big help for Biden. Although Fox has called that very early.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 05:09:52 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:00:32 AM
Michigan, not Minnesota.

Nevada could have an impact as well.

Correct. Its been a long night. :o

Mad that it might come down to a congressional district.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 05:11:56 AM
Would have been nice to get Texas, but turning it blue in this cycle was always a pipe dream. That's a medium term project.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:12:30 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 05:04:21 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:55:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 04:50:35 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 04:36:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected

How many of those 3 does Biden need?

2 outta 3!!
The 2 biggest ones, or all 3. Wisconsin and minnesota without Penn is no good for Biden.

Not necessarily if Biden has the congressional districts I think?

This is mental!

From 2016, Biden needs 43. Arizona gives him 11 so he needs 32. He can't do that without PA. Wisconsin has 10, Michigan 16 and the 1 from the district in Maine would only get 27.

Virginia a huge home for Biden given how it looked earlier.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 05:14:05 AM
This tight, it's surely heading for the courts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:14:26 AM
(all of which presupposes Biden doesn't lose anything that Hilary won in 2016)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 05:15:46 AM
Georgia is back in play according to NYT!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 05:18:00 AM
Georgia (16 EVs) totally in play here. Trump ahead, but there should be a blue shift when the mail ballots are counted.

Officials have said it could take a couple of days for all mail ballots to be scanned and counted, but the secretary of state has said he expects the winners of most races to be announced by Wednesday.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 05:19:35 AM
Biden 205 Trump 136. Get in there, Joe!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:21:23 AM
Georgia would potentially be enormous. Would mean Biden could without PA.

Regardless of who wins, and what way Congress ends up, apparent more than ever just how divided the US is. A Biden win does not surely heal those divisions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 04, 2020, 05:22:05 AM
No surprises here. The confederacy holding tight for the party that beat them in the civil war. The states that fund the Union holding Blue as predicted. Sit tight we won't know the result for a few days and the party of Lincoln will pull every stroke to muddy the waters as best they can.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on November 04, 2020, 05:22:10 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected

The Governor of PA stated according to votes coming in Biden will win PA, won't have the totals till late Thursday or early Friday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:23:38 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 05:19:35 AM
Biden 205 Trump 136. Get in there, Joe!

Tell yourself all you want that those numbers matter. Celebrating holding states Hillary won smacks of desperation.

GA count stopping until 8am ET.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 05:25:51 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:23:38 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 05:19:35 AM
Biden 205 Trump 136. Get in there, Joe!

Tell yourself all you want that those numbers matter. Celebrating holding states Hillary won smacks of desperation.

GA count stopping until 8am ET.

I will. i need something!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 05:27:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 05:19:35 AM
Biden 205 Trump 136. Get in there, Joe!

Tyrone were 4 up after 20mins on Sunday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 04, 2020, 05:28:04 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:21:23 AM
Georgia would potentially be enormous. Would mean Biden could without PA.

Regardless of who wins, and what way Congress ends up, apparent more than ever just how divided the US is. A Biden win does not surely heal those divisions.

You are correct. I was hoping Biden would win overwhelmingly so he could claim to have a mandate to bind the nations wounds. Alas we are going to probably be in a stalemate when this is over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on November 04, 2020, 05:30:16 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 05:19:35 AM
Biden 205 Trump 136. Get in there, Joe!

ABC News  has it  205  to  136
CNN    same as above

Yahoo        has it  223 to 145

Fox News   has it  237 to  210

Won't know till the afternoon of results

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on November 04, 2020, 05:33:29 AM
NYT now leaning Biden for GA. Have been pretty accurate. Makes sense as so many urban votes left. Huge if Biden takes GA and Arizona. Can afford a slip up in North.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:33:39 AM
Lots of counting to go around Detroit that would presumably favour Biden. He's 400k behind what Hilary polled.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 05:38:34 AM
Foxnews having a meltdown here over Arizona absolutely class!!

I still think it's too early though!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 05:45:46 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 04:54:12 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:35:27 AM
It really is coming down to PA, MI and WI as expected

Ehhh no. We were told that Biden had a plethora of paths to 270, of which one was the rust belt. Trump was the one who had to run the board and now that isnt the case.

Erm yes - it was always said that if Biden flipped those 3 states he would win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:50:23 AM
QuoteWe are up BIG, but they are trying to STEAL the Election. We will never let them do it. Votes cannot be cast after the Poles are closed!

And so it begins. Frank Sobotka and Stan Valchek have a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2020, 05:55:07 AM
Such a gobshite tweet from Trump and he can't even spell polls.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 05:55:41 AM
Biden, incredibly, seems to have the big mo behind him now

Not over by any means, but that's the way it seems to me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:56:20 AM
Fox publicly standing over calling Arizona.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 05:57:22 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:56:20 AM
Fox publicly standing over calling Arizona.
For once Democrats hope Fox are telling the truth  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 06:07:39 AM
Fox's polling operation is well respected.

It is separate from their opinion/"news" team.

I'm sure many remember Karl Rove's embarrassing on-screen meltdown when the Fox pollsters called Ohio for Obama in 2012.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2020, 06:16:26 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 05:55:41 AM
Biden, incredibly, seems to have the big mo behind him now

Not over by any means, but that's the way it seems to me

Women grabbed him by the balls according to the exit poll

https://www.cbsnews.com/elections/2020/united-states/president/exit-poll/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 04, 2020, 06:20:39 AM
219:209 CNN have it right now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2020, 06:25:20 AM
Hmmm not good. Went to bed thinking if I wake up to very tight numbers, Trump will engineer a victory by hook or my crook.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 06:31:11 AM
If Biden flips Arizona as Fox News project Biden only has to win 2 out of 3 "wall" states so not necessarily Pennsylvania.

Tomorrow night (Tonight??) could be as entertaining as tonight (last night??)

Good night folks!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 06:58:09 AM
Looks like it is Trumps.

He has went from 2/1 yesterday and is now 8/15
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 07:01:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 06:58:09 AM
Looks like it is Trumps.

He has went from 2/1 yesterday and is now 8/15

He was 1/7 a couple of hours ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 07:03:46 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 07:01:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 06:58:09 AM
Looks like it is Trumps.

He has went from 2/1 yesterday and is now 8/15

He was 1/7 a couple of hours ago.

Didnt know that Gab.

He is favourite to win now - which is a complete shift from the last few weeks.

Will there be any more movement with results in the next few hours?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 07:06:59 AM
Things are changing. Georgia is getting very tight now and Fox are saying they think Wisconsin and Michigan are beyond Trump's reach now.

Joe for me now. Got him at 4/1 a few hours ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2020, 07:20:31 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 07:06:59 AM
Things are changing. Georgia is getting very tight now and Fox are saying they think Wisconsin and Michigan are beyond Trump's reach now.

Joe for me now. Got him at 4/1 a few hours ago.
I hope you are right but it seems Trump is to speak from the WH soon. As it is so tight I think he'll start to stir shit now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 07:25:47 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 07:06:59 AM
Things are changing. Georgia is getting very tight now and Fox are saying they think Wisconsin and Michigan are beyond Trump's reach now.

Joe for me now. Got him at 4/1 a few hours ago.
I'm not watching Fox

What exactly did they say

If Biden holds onto Arizona and Nevade, any two from Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania would win it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 07:28:54 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2020, 07:20:31 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 07:06:59 AM
Things are changing. Georgia is getting very tight now and Fox are saying they think Wisconsin and Michigan are beyond Trump's reach now.

Joe for me now. Got him at 4/1 a few hours ago.
I hope you are right but it seems Trump is to speak from the WH soon. As it is so tight I think he'll start to stir shit now.

Yeah, he's stirring shit all right. Apparently counting votes is election theft.

Expect to see him trying to foment confrontation and even violence if this goes on for a couple of days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 07:29:58 AM
Kim Jong Un speaks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 04, 2020, 07:30:15 AM
Liar in chief is going off now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 07:30:41 AM
As if Trump knows what disenfranchised means ffs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 04, 2020, 07:31:27 AM
Trump on declaring victory... surprise ..surprise. Talking about how they will take him to court to prevent his overwhelming victory. Claiming he has won the election and declaring that it's a fraud that he has not been declared the winner already.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 04, 2020, 07:32:51 AM
He thinks he has been beaten.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 07:34:26 AM
Quote from: omochain on November 04, 2020, 07:32:51 AM
He thinks he has been beaten.
I think this is true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 07:35:59 AM
If it is like this on the GAA Board I can only imagine what it is like for people who were born and bred in the US.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 07:39:51 AM
Nice illegal campaign event in the WH there. Get him the f**k out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 04, 2020, 07:46:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 07:35:59 AM
If it is like this on the GAA Board I can only imagine what it is like for people who were born and bred in the US.

Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 07:50:55 AM
Quote from: omochain on November 04, 2020, 07:46:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 07:35:59 AM
If it is like this on the GAA Board I can only imagine what it is like for people who were born and bred in the US.

Can you elaborate?

This election has put people in a frenzy on the GAABoard - the majority if not all of the people on here werent even born in the US.
I can only imagine what it is like over there.

I think Trump now thinks he has been beaten and it starting this shite.

He doesnt want the mail in votes counted - like f**k sake  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 04, 2020, 07:53:09 AM
Complete non sequitur.. Did you know that 0.75 million people in California get 1 electoral college vote. In the Dakotas 0.25 million get 1 electoral college vote.. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: larryin89 on November 04, 2020, 07:54:06 AM
Very depressing if trump wins again .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 04, 2020, 07:54:25 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 07:50:55 AM
Quote from: omochain on November 04, 2020, 07:46:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 07:35:59 AM
If it is like this on the GAA Board I can only imagine what it is like for people who were born and bred in the US.

Can you elaborate?

This election has put people in a frenzy on the GAABoard - the majority if not all of the people on here werent even born in the US.
I can only imagine what it is like over there.

I think Trump now thinks he has been beaten and it starting this shite.

He doesnt want the mail in votes counted - like f**k sake  ;D

Thank you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: manfromdelmonte on November 04, 2020, 07:56:26 AM
Quote from: omochain on November 04, 2020, 07:32:51 AM
He thinks he has been beaten.
Or he knows he's ahead in a number of states so it suits him to stop counting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 04, 2020, 08:00:27 AM
Anyway... it's time for this old man to go to bed. I hope my belief that Joe will scape in is realized when I wake up tomorrow. Unfortunately we still will be in the midst of a cold civil war. The confederacy will not go away you know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on November 04, 2020, 08:12:43 AM
Trump 1/2
Biden 2/1

Flip of odds from last night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 08:43:05 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 04, 2020, 08:12:43 AM
Trump 1/2
Biden 2/1

Flip of odds from last night

Seems at odds with all the commentary I heard this morning on the way into work. God help us with 4 more years of this fool.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: passedit on November 04, 2020, 08:56:38 AM
That Trump wants the count stopped tells all you need to know. CNN coverage has been excellent. Here's their latest.

QuoteVote counting is still underway in key states. Here's what you need to know.

From CNN's Maeve Reston and Stephen Collinson

Votes are still being counted in several key states across the US, and no winner has been determined in the presidential election.

If you're just reading in, here's what you need to know about the race:

    All eyes on the Midwest: The election is far from over with millions of votes outstanding in key states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan — ballots that were cast before Election Day that have yet to be counted. Pennsylvania has counted 39% of the mail-in ballots it has received, according to the state.
    Counting underway in Arizona and Georgia: Joe Biden appears to have made significant gains in Arizona, a state which Trump won in 2016. Georgia appeared at a standstill as officials in Fulton County, which includes Atlanta and its populous suburbs, said they would resume counting at resume at 8 a.m. ET.
    President Trump attempted to claim victory: Donald Trump called for a halt to legitimate vote counting that is underway around the country and sought to mislead his loyal supporters by conflating the legitimate counting of ballots with voting as he falsely claimed Democrats were trying to "steal the election."
    Biden holds the lead: The Democratic nominee holds the lead in the Electoral College at this stage in the night, 220 to 213. Remember: 270 electoral votes are needed to become president. Speaking to reporters, the former vice president urged them to "Keep the faith, guys. We're going to win this."



https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-03-20/h_c2871ed0f911d04df9e6cdebbf6957fb (https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-03-20/h_c2871ed0f911d04df9e6cdebbf6957fb)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on November 04, 2020, 08:58:56 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 08:43:05 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 04, 2020, 08:12:43 AM
Trump 1/2
Biden 2/1

Flip of odds from last night

Seems at odds with all the commentary I heard this morning on the way into work. God help us with 4 more years of this fool.

This suggest that Trump is going to win, he's ahead in all the undeclared states apart from 1.

https://www.google.com/search?q=us+election&rlz=1C1GGRV_enGB751GB754&oq=us&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0i131i433l3j69i60l3.653j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=us+election&rlz=1C1GGRV_enGB751GB754&oq=us&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0i131i433l3j69i60l3.653j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: larryin89 on November 04, 2020, 09:09:19 AM
Betting market has been pretty much the same since I checked it two hours ago trump 1.5 Biden 2.98

That's not good
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
If Trump does win then those who rioted and looted will have put him there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 04, 2020, 09:12:22 AM
Hopefully the mail votes will turn those key states blue. PA seems to be beyond Biden. Circa 6/700,000 behind
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 04, 2020, 09:13:03 AM
This is not good :(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 09:19:20 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 04, 2020, 09:12:22 AM
Hopefully the mail votes will turn those key states blue. PA seems to be beyond Biden. Circa 6/700,000 behind

There is a huge amount of vote still to be counted from places like Philadelphia. Same in Wisconsin with Milwaukee. They're holding back in Georgia because counts had to shut down in the Atlanta area.

I'm not saying that Biden is going to win those states. Fact is no one knows at this point.

The reason Trump is falsely crying foul is because he knows a lot of the outstanding vote is mail-ins, where he is perceived to have a disadvantage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 04, 2020, 09:22:46 AM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1323888955188781056 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1323888955188781056)

This video is quite remarkable. (It's Bernie Sanders talking to *I think* Jimmy Kimmel)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 09:32:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 09:19:20 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 04, 2020, 09:12:22 AM
Hopefully the mail votes will turn those key states blue. PA seems to be beyond Biden. Circa 6/700,000 behind

There is a huge amount of vote still to be counted from places like Philadelphia. Same in Wisconsin with Milwaukee. They're holding back in Georgia because counts had to shut down in the Atlanta area.

I'm not saying that Biden is going to win those states. Fact is no one knows at this point.

The reason Trump is falsely crying foul is because he knows a lot of the outstanding vote is mail-ins, where he is perceived to have a disadvantage.

But surely the bookies know this? So why is he odds on favourite? Watching Fox for some craic!

Four more years!!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: larryin89 on November 04, 2020, 09:35:38 AM
Trump touching 1.3 to 1.4 now , it's fooked .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 09:43:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 09:19:20 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 04, 2020, 09:12:22 AM
Hopefully the mail votes will turn those key states blue. PA seems to be beyond Biden. Circa 6/700,000 behind

There is a huge amount of vote still to be counted from places like Philadelphia. Same in Wisconsin with Milwaukee. They're holding back in Georgia because counts had to shut down in the Atlanta area.

I'm not saying that Biden is going to win those states. Fact is no one knows at this point.

The reason Trump is falsely crying foul is because he knows a lot of the outstanding vote is mail-ins, where he is perceived to have a disadvantage.
PA does look gone.

Expecting to get most of the Wisconsin in about 30 mins. Biden needs to turn that around, keep Arizona and get one of Georgia or Michigan. That'll be 270. Can be done, but 2/1 or 5/2 is about right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maroon Manc on November 04, 2020, 09:44:05 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on November 04, 2020, 09:35:38 AM
Trump touching 1.3 to 1.4 now , it's fooked .

He's starting to drift
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 04, 2020, 09:44:14 AM
WI going blue!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 09:44:51 AM
WI now dead level (near enough). 11% of vote left to count.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on November 04, 2020, 09:50:06 AM
Trump 4/6 now.  Was 2/5 15 min ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 09:57:41 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 04, 2020, 09:50:06 AM
Trump 4/6 now.  Was 2/5 15 min ago.
Yep Wisconsin has rattled the state of play. 
That gives Biden hope. Michigan looks his best other bet. AZ still not completely safe. 270-268 for Biden if he wins those 3!

There is plenty of red counties left to count in Wisconsin. Going to be really tight there it looks like.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maroon Manc on November 04, 2020, 09:59:30 AM
We've a new favourite
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on November 04, 2020, 10:06:47 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 04, 2020, 09:59:30 AM
We've a new favourite

Both at 10/11 on PP currently. What is going on? Serious swinging back and forth...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:14:48 AM
Has anyone checked their local bridge-I haven't heard from Sid in a while
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 10:15:38 AM
Quote from: GJL on November 04, 2020, 10:06:47 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 04, 2020, 09:59:30 AM
We've a new favourite

Both at 10/11 on PP currently. What is going on? Serious swinging back and forth...
Everyone else has Trump slightly ahead, nobody at the this very moment has Biden favourites, but just a whisker in it.

I think they're overreacting to WI a little. All red counties left in WI, so Biden's 9k lead could easily switch again. Albeit, Biden's hope is that it is Democrat votes in those red counties that are remaining.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 04, 2020, 10:19:59 AM
Genuinely startled. Donald Trump has made one of the most important political speeches of the last 150 years. Who would have thought?

Less startled at the tone and content of the speech. Donald Trump is a disgrace. Calling for votes not to be counted is an attempt for USA to cease to be a democracy.

The votes need to be counted. Trump could still win if they are. This is tight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: larryin89 on November 04, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
Biden 1.8 trump 2.1 at time of typing with betfair exchange.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:29:23 AM
Even if Joe wins, how much of a mandate does he have?

With everything going on right now any Democrat should be hammering Trump out the gate

And no Russia to blame this time.  A lot of people were conned into thinking Trump won in 2016 because of Russian interference. Anyone who's lived here as long as I have knew that was a complete cod since day 1. The current Democratic Party has limited appeal to wide swaths if the electorate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 04, 2020, 10:31:07 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 04, 2020, 10:19:59 AM
Genuinely startled. Donald Trump has made one of the most important political speeches of the last 150 years. Who would have thought?

Less startled at the tone and content of the speech. Donald Trump is a disgrace. Calling for votes not to be counted is an attempt for USA to cease to be a democracy.

The votes need to be counted. Trump could still win if they are. This is tight.

He is an absolute maniac. He will probably win now but even if he loses he won't go easily. There'd be legal challenges left, right and centre and he might flat out refuse to go. He is a dangerous dangerous man. I don't understand the world :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 10:32:51 AM
Biden clear favourite now.

Trump obviously seen it coming 3 hours ago which was why he made the speech & was starting this nonsense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maddog on November 04, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 10:32:51 AM
Biden clear favourite now.

Trump obviously seen it coming 3 hours ago which was why he made the speech & was starting this nonsense.

About 2 hours ago it was 4/9 trump 7/4 biden now it is 4/5 Biden and Evens Trump. Can anyone explain to me why the hispanic vote in Florida would vote in numbers for Trump? Or is it a bit like working class northerners in England voting for Johnson ?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 04, 2020, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:29:23 AM
Even if Joe wins, how much of a mandate does he have?

With everything going on right now any Democrat should be hammering Trump out the gate

And no Russia to blame this time.  A lot of people were conned into thinking Trump won in 2016 because of Russian interference. Anyone who's lived here as long as I have knew that was a complete cod since day 1. The current Democratic Party has limited appeal to wide swaths if the electorate

You're not far wrong.

Even if Biden scrapes through, this election has been another enormous f**k up by the Democrats. Surely they need a clear out of key people and strategists after this. Two open goal elections in a row against one of the most objectionable candidates in history and this is their best effort.

Trump is a dangerous, self-serving, gobshite who shouldn't be anywhere near any position of power. But the Democrats clearly haven't offered a satisfactorily viable alternative to the American people. Biden was an insipid, uninspiring candidate. And their campaign lacked any imagination or vision. Just being not Trump clearly wasn't good enough on its own.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 04, 2020, 10:50:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:29:23 AM
Even if Joe wins, how much of a mandate does he have?

With everything going on right now any Democrat should be hammering Trump out the gate

And no Russia to blame this time.  A lot of people were conned into thinking Trump won in 2016 because of Russian interference. Anyone who's lived here as long as I have knew that was a complete cod since day 1. The current Democratic Party has limited appeal to wide swaths if the electorate

If he wins he has the mandate of any president who wins, the same as Trump the last time out. Remember Trump lost the popular vote so did he have a mandate?  In a 2 party system you only have a winner and a loser. The winner has the mandate, the loser doesn't. That's as simple as that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 10:51:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:29:23 AM
Even if Joe wins, how much of a mandate does he have?


f**k off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 04, 2020, 10:52:40 AM
Quote from: maddog on November 04, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 10:32:51 AM
Biden clear favourite now.

Trump obviously seen it coming 3 hours ago which was why he made the speech & was starting this nonsense.

About 2 hours ago it was 4/9 trump 7/4 biden now it is 4/5 Biden and Evens Trump. Can anyone explain to me why the hispanic vote in Florida would vote in numbers for Trump? Or is it a bit like working class northerners in England voting for Johnson ?

Cubans and Venezuelans buying the propaganda that the Dems were going to turn the US into a communist state, apparently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 10:54:02 AM
Joe in to 4/6 now.
Some said earlier in thread they backed him at 4/1 during the night.

Good call
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 04, 2020, 10:54:32 AM
Quote from: maddog on November 04, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 10:32:51 AM
Biden clear favourite now.

Trump obviously seen it coming 3 hours ago which was why he made the speech & was starting this nonsense.

About 2 hours ago it was 4/9 trump 7/4 biden now it is 4/5 Biden and Evens Trump. Can anyone explain to me why the hispanic vote in Florida would vote in numbers for Trump? Or is it a bit like working class northerners in England voting for Johnson ?

Latinos in Florida voted for Trump as many of them are from Cuban or Venezuelan background who "fled Socialism/Communism" at home - they love Trump's hardman attitude to their respective homelands and are clearly thick enough to believe that a vote for Biden is a vote for communism (this is genuinely what a lot of them are saying). Latinos in other parts of the States are more likely to be of Mexican or other Latino backgrounds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 04, 2020, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 04, 2020, 10:54:32 AM

Latinos in Florida voted for Trump as many of them are from Cuban or Venezuelan background who "fled Socialism/Communism" at home - they love Trump's hardman attitude to their respective homelands and are clearly thick enough to believe that a vote for Biden is a vote for communism (this is genuinely what a lot of them are saying). Latinos in other parts of the States are more likely to be of Mexican or other Latino backgrounds.

Is whitesplaining a thing now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 10:57:01 AM
Quote from: maddog on November 04, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 10:32:51 AM
Biden clear favourite now.

Trump obviously seen it coming 3 hours ago which was why he made the speech & was starting this nonsense.

About 2 hours ago it was 4/9 trump 7/4 biden now it is 4/5 Biden and Evens Trump. Can anyone explain to me why the hispanic vote in Florida would vote in numbers for Trump? Or is it a bit like working class northerners in England voting for Johnson ?

Cubans. Venezuelans. Terrified of anything with a hint of the left about it.

Hispanics tend to be socially conservative. Democrats have had sense of entitlement to their vote for too long.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
Quote from: maddog on November 04, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 10:32:51 AM
Biden clear favourite now.

Trump obviously seen it coming 3 hours ago which was why he made the speech & was starting this nonsense.

About 2 hours ago it was 4/9 trump 7/4 biden now it is 4/5 Biden and Evens Trump. Can anyone explain to me why the hispanic vote in Florida would vote in numbers for Trump? Or is it a bit like working class northerners in England voting for Johnson ?

Because they tend to come from socialist failures like Venezuela and know the danger.
Plus they're devout pro life catholics so Biden ain't exactly their cup of tea.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 04, 2020, 11:10:26 AM
Farage says there is no evidence of voter fraud
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 11:12:27 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:29:23 AM
Even if Joe wins, how much of a mandate does he have?

With everything going on right now any Democrat should be hammering Trump out the gate

And no Russia to blame this time.  A lot of people were conned into thinking Trump won in 2016 because of Russian interference. Anyone who's lived here as long as I have knew that was a complete cod since day 1. The current Democratic Party has limited appeal to wide swaths if the electorate

Yet they'll still probably win the popular vote.

What kind of broad appeal does the GOP have?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thewobbler on November 04, 2020, 11:14:18 AM
Some absolutely rampant racism above.

These theories about fear of communism / Catholicism / innate conservative bias among Latinos are exceptionally sweeping. The one that claimed Latinos en masse have fallen foul of propaganda regarding America going communist, is an extraordinary comment. Imagine believing that an entire race is stupid enough to fall for propaganda.

——

There is a chance that Latinos in Florida have a good life. Or at least a demonstrably better life than their family members / ascendants from "home". So they might not want change.

I sincerely hope Trump gets ousted today. But ffs show a bit of decency in your sweeping statements folks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 04, 2020, 11:16:00 AM
Any of the Republican Party representatives come out yet to confirm that they are in favour of free and fair democratic elections?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 11:17:03 AM
Actually, the racism there is primarily coming from you and your assertions about Latinos. What is evident and should have been for years is that Latinos are not a homogenous block. This appears to be major news on the networks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 11:17:36 AM
Biden's lead in Nevada has almost evaporated. Only a 7k lead with 14% of the vote left. Can't afford to lose that. mail-in votes expected to be more blue than red, but another one in the melting pot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 11:17:45 AM
Wobbler - some of these comments have been ongoing for weeks if not months on this thread.

Both sides have zero respect for each other or understanding as to why someone would not vote for the same side you are voting for.

One thing is clear - the majority of polls dont have a f**king notion what is going on in the country
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 11:18:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:14:48 AM
Has anyone checked their local bridge-I haven't heard from Sid in a while

No hes on one of his multiple social media accounts calling someone he has never met a right wing nut job. Hardman behind a keyboard. Bit like those antifa yokes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 11:20:24 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 04, 2020, 11:17:36 AM
Biden's lead in Nevada has almost evaporated. Only a 7k lead with 14% of the vote left. Can't afford to lose that. mail-in votes expected to be more blue than red, but another one in the melting pot.

A lot of the unreported is in the Vegas and Reno districts. As the most densely populated, you'd expect them to go for Biden.

I'd be more worried about Michigan and Wisconsin.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 11:27:03 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 11:20:24 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 04, 2020, 11:17:36 AM
Biden's lead in Nevada has almost evaporated. Only a 7k lead with 14% of the vote left. Can't afford to lose that. mail-in votes expected to be more blue than red, but another one in the melting pot.

A lot of the unreported is in the Vegas and Reno districts. As the most densely populated, you'd expect them to go for Biden.

I'd be more worried about Michigan and Wisconsin.
Agreed.
Really not sure how the bookies think they've seen enough to make Biden favourite. Close yes, but the slight edge still seems to be with Trump. But too close to call really
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 11:27:26 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 11:18:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:14:48 AM
Has anyone checked their local bridge-I haven't heard from Sid in a while

No hes on one of his multiple social media accounts calling someone he has never met a right wing nut job. Hardman behind a keyboard. Bit like those antifa yokes.

Out in the streets yourself, are you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 04, 2020, 11:28:55 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 04, 2020, 11:14:18 AM
Some absolutely rampant racism above.

These theories about fear of communism / Catholicism / innate conservative bias among Latinos are exceptionally sweeping. The one that claimed Latinos en masse have fallen foul of propaganda regarding America going communist, is an extraordinary comment. Imagine believing that an entire race is stupid enough to fall for propaganda.

——

There is a chance that Latinos in Florida have a good life. Or at least a demonstrably better life than their family members / ascendants from "home". So they might not want change.

I sincerely hope Trump gets ousted today. But ffs show a bit of decency in your sweeping statements folks.

Settle petal.

No one is speaking in absolutes. There's no sweeping claims that any ethnicity is a homogenous block.

But there are clearly certain factors that were particularly influential for certain groups of people. That is all that was stated. And it's perfectly fine to look at things at this sort of granular level - it's literally how politics works.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 11:29:30 AM
I cant remember any event having bookies so all over the shop in such a short space of time. Not a good day for people who get paid to make predictions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 11:30:18 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 11:27:26 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 11:18:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:14:48 AM
Has anyone checked their local bridge-I haven't heard from Sid in a while

No hes on one of his multiple social media accounts calling someone he has never met a right wing nut job. Hardman behind a keyboard. Bit like those antifa yokes.

Out in the streets yourself, are you?

What?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 04, 2020, 11:33:09 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 04, 2020, 11:14:18 AM
Some absolutely rampant racism above.

These theories about fear of communism / Catholicism / innate conservative bias among Latinos are exceptionally sweeping. The one that claimed Latinos en masse have fallen foul of propaganda regarding America going communist, is an extraordinary comment. Imagine believing that an entire race is stupid enough to fall for propaganda.

——

There is a chance that Latinos in Florida have a good life. Or at least a demonstrably better life than their family members / ascendants from "home". So they might not want change.

I sincerely hope Trump gets ousted today. But ffs show a bit of decency in your sweeping statements folks.

No racism in my post, I'm very familiar with the Latino community in both the US and in their home countries. Read the reports of what happened in south Florida and quotes from many on both sides of the political divide there - one man quoted a friend who couldn't say he supported Biden in work as he'd lose his job for being a Communist  ::) The Latino communities in other parts of the States aren't heavily Cuban or Venezuelan so aren't as easily affected by the McCarthy-ism. Of course, it doesn't exclude Latinos from other countries from supporting Trump - I used to live with Panamanians based in New York who are huge Trump supporters and even substantial donors.

Also I'm not sure where the racism (defined as "prejudice, discrimination or antagonism... against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group) in my post was... if I'd called all Latinos, Cubans or Venezuelans stupid then yes - but that would be highly hypocritical of me and also blatantly untrue. Anybody who believes a vote for Biden is a vote for Communism, however, deserves the description of "stupid".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thewobbler on November 04, 2020, 11:34:00 AM
Ed, you are claiming that Cubans and Venezuelans are falling for propaganda.

I'm interpreting this as "those Latinos are generally thick or uneducated, which makes them easily swayed".

Step back and think about what you're saying. Please. This has nothing to do with how politics works.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 11:35:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 11:29:30 AM
I cant remember any event having bookies so all over the shop in such a short space of time. Not a good day for people who get paid to make predictions.

I feel for them.

My pessimistic nature says Trump will edge it, but this really could go either way from what I'm reading.

I guess they can only keep it tight for both bets and watch where the money is going.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 11:36:10 AM
Oh, big change in Michigan

After 80% counted Trump led by 203k
After 83% counted Trump leads by 65k

Game is certainly on in MI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 10:51:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 10:29:23 AM
Even if Joe wins, how much of a mandate does he have?


f**k off.

LOL-and that's exactly what the Democrats said about Trump in 2016

Don't like it now that the boot is in the other foot do you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
At the minute it sounds like Nevada holds and Arizona is OK for Biden.

It's all about Wisconsin and Michigan... Pennsylvania is a big gap but it's going to close it looks Republican leaning though given Ohio.

I think Michigan will be Biden but Wisconsin is going to be paper thin I reckon! It can't be called without Nevada though and that's not going to be until Thursday night at the earliest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 11:37:31 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 04, 2020, 11:36:10 AM
Oh, big change in Michigan

After 80% counted Trump led by 203k
After 83% counted Trump leads by 65k

Game is certainly on in MI

Detroit must be coming or has come in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 11:38:49 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 04, 2020, 11:34:00 AM
Ed, you are claiming that Cubans and Venezuelans are falling for propaganda.

I'm interpreting this as "those Latinos are generally thick or uneducated, which makes them easily swayed".

Step back and think about what you're saying. Please. This has nothing to do with how politics works.

Wobbler, the Cuban bloc has always voted republican, and got6 the reasons outlined above. All you have to do is look at an absolute joke like Marco Rubio and you see what they vote for. This isn't news.

Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 11:37:31 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 04, 2020, 11:36:10 AM
Oh, big change in Michigan

After 80% counted Trump led by 203k
After 83% counted Trump leads by 65k

Game is certainly on in MI

Detroit must be coming or has come in.

Wayne County, yeah, with a good bit more to come.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 04, 2020, 11:53:40 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 04, 2020, 11:33:09 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 04, 2020, 11:14:18 AM
Some absolutely rampant racism above.

These theories about fear of communism / Catholicism / innate conservative bias among Latinos are exceptionally sweeping. The one that claimed Latinos en masse have fallen foul of propaganda regarding America going communist, is an extraordinary comment. Imagine believing that an entire race is stupid enough to fall for propaganda.

——

There is a chance that Latinos in Florida have a good life. Or at least a demonstrably better life than their family members / ascendants from "home". So they might not want change.

I sincerely hope Trump gets ousted today. But ffs show a bit of decency in your sweeping statements folks.

No racism in my post, I'm very familiar with the Latino community in both the US and in their home countries. Read the reports of what happened in south Florida and quotes from many on both sides of the political divide there - one man quoted a friend who couldn't say he supported Biden in work as he'd lose his job for being a Communist  ::) The Latino communities in other parts of the States aren't heavily Cuban or Venezuelan so aren't as easily affected by the McCarthy-ism. Of course, it doesn't exclude Latinos from other countries from supporting Trump - I used to live with Panamanians based in New York who are huge Trump supporters and even substantial donors.

Also I'm not sure where the racism (defined as "prejudice, discrimination or antagonism... against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group) in my post was... if I'd called all Latinos, Cubans or Venezuelans stupid then yes - but that would be highly hypocritical of me and also blatantly untrue. Anybody who believes a vote for Biden is a vote for Communism, however, deserves the description of "stupid".

I should also point out that a not insubstantial amount of non-Hispanics who voted for Trump thought the choice was between Trump and communism, and they also deserve the moniker of stupid. Possibly even more so as they never experienced the issues of Cuba/Venezuela which understandably could scare anyone around any left wing ideals (even though Biden is miles away from the hard left).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 11:29:30 AM
I cant remember any event having bookies so all over the shop in such a short space of time. Not a good day for people who get paid to make predictions.

Backing Trump at 2/1 then cashing out when he hit 2/5 to throw your money on Biden at 4/1, wait till it drops and Trump is fav only to cash out again!!

Yes those in the bookies will have taken a bashing at the prediction side of things!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 04, 2020, 12:00:08 PM
Around Miami there is an already well established pattern of Cuba exiles voting Republican because the GOP are more hawkish when it comes to Cuban sanctions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:02:09 PM
Don't forget that Biden was part of the administration that relaxed and opened up to Cuba. Easy material for the Republicans to work with there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:02:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
At the minute it sounds like Nevada holds and Arizona is OK for Biden.

It's all about Wisconsin and Michigan... Pennsylvania is a big gap but it's going to close it looks Republican leaning though given Ohio.

I think Michigan will be Biden but Wisconsin is going to be paper thin I reckon! It can't be called without Nevada though and that's not going to be until Thursday night at the earliest.

In Wisconsin most places have counted, more or less, except Green Way has a way to go, and Trump is ahead there. But Milwaukee has 6 times the population and strongly Biden, so even the mopping up there will give Biden a few thousand more. So very tight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 12:04:16 PM
Would it be rude to ask questions about the people who have already put one QAnon candidate in Congress last night, and may elect two more?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 12:07:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 11:29:30 AM
I cant remember any event having bookies so all over the shop in such a short space of time. Not a good day for people who get paid to make predictions.

Backing Trump at 2/1 then cashing out when he hit 2/5 to throw your money on Biden at 4/1, wait till it drops and Trump is fav only to cash out again!!

Yes those in the bookies will have taken a bashing at the prediction side of things!

You would be better picking lotto numbers MR than being able to predict that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:15:07 PM
f**k Mike Huckabee. Talking about votes in PA "suddenly getting found".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2020, 12:28:08 PM
When I went to bed last night the majority of Trump followers was so cocky that they had the race won already and right now it's hilarious to watch them starting to panic and freak out on the fear they will be beaten by sleepy Joe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:28:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:02:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
At the minute it sounds like Nevada holds and Arizona is OK for Biden.

It's all about Wisconsin and Michigan... Pennsylvania is a big gap but it's going to close it looks Republican leaning though given Ohio.

I think Michigan will be Biden but Wisconsin is going to be paper thin I reckon! It can't be called without Nevada though and that's not going to be until Thursday night at the earliest.

In Wisconsin most places have counted, more or less, except Green Way has a way to go, and Trump is ahead there. But Milwaukee has 6 times the population and strongly Biden, so even the mopping up there will give Biden a few thousand more. So very tight.

Quoting my own post, the late votes in WI seem to be absent ballots and have a higher proportion of Biden. He is 21000 ahead with 20000 more votes to go, so Trump would need a 10% margin to win and some of the districts not finished counting have modest Biden majorities. I'd say Biden will sneak Wisconsin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 12:30:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:28:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:02:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
At the minute it sounds like Nevada holds and Arizona is OK for Biden.

It's all about Wisconsin and Michigan... Pennsylvania is a big gap but it's going to close it looks Republican leaning though given Ohio.

I think Michigan will be Biden but Wisconsin is going to be paper thin I reckon! It can't be called without Nevada though and that's not going to be until Thursday night at the earliest.

In Wisconsin most places have counted, more or less, except Green Way has a way to go, and Trump is ahead there. But Milwaukee has 6 times the population and strongly Biden, so even the mopping up there will give Biden a few thousand more. So very tight.

Quoting my own post, the late votes in WI seem to be absent ballots and have a higher proportion of Biden. He is 21000 ahead with 20000 more votes to go, so Trump would need a 10% margin to win and some of the districts not finished counting have modest Biden majorities. I'd say Biden will sneak Wisconsin.

PP not showing odds on WI anymore
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:32:28 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 12:30:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:28:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:02:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
At the minute it sounds like Nevada holds and Arizona is OK for Biden.

It's all about Wisconsin and Michigan... Pennsylvania is a big gap but it's going to close it looks Republican leaning though given Ohio.

I think Michigan will be Biden but Wisconsin is going to be paper thin I reckon! It can't be called without Nevada though and that's not going to be until Thursday night at the earliest.

In Wisconsin most places have counted, more or less, except Green Way has a way to go, and Trump is ahead there. But Milwaukee has 6 times the population and strongly Biden, so even the mopping up there will give Biden a few thousand more. So very tight.

Quoting my own post, the late votes in WI seem to be absent ballots and have a higher proportion of Biden. He is 21000 ahead with 20000 more votes to go, so Trump would need a 10% margin to win and some of the districts not finished counting have modest Biden majorities. I'd say Biden will sneak Wisconsin.

PP not showing odds on WI anymore

I should have gone in there, instead of posting on GAABoard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:33:11 PM
The Detroit votes that came in (Wayne County) were about 140k out of 150k for Biden and only 55% of count complete.

Looking more and more like a Biden win. A PA win would seal it decisively.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 12:30:14 PM
PP not showing odds on WI anymore

That mad bastard Stew, wherever he is, will be apoplectic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Looking more and more likely that Biden has rebuilt the blue wall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 12:38:01 PM
Oddly enough you can still bet on WI on Betfair, with 97% of the votes counted and a 20000+ gap.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: passedit on November 04, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:33:11 PM
The Detroit votes that came in (Wayne County) were about 140k out of 150k for Biden and only 55% of count complete.

Looking more and more like a Biden win. A PA win would seal it decisively.

PA makes it decisive but tweet below sets the path for a Biden win which is looking most likely now. My sister and BIL voted in Bucks County and went to bed distraught last night. Still not happy as they expect civil unrest for a tight Biden win. (there've been tanks on Philly streets all week).

QuoteNate Silver
@NateSilver538
·
1h
If Biden wins AZ, NV, MI and WI that's ballgame. He could lose PA, GA and NC and he'd still have 270.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 12:45:46 PM
Of course. When I say "decisively" I mean there's little ground for Republican moaning and litigation.

PA still very much in play. 1.4m outstanding absentee ballots to be factored in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 12:48:00 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Deweytruman12.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 12:49:15 PM
Trumpets in a diner on Fox now moaning about "too many people voting"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 12:52:48 PM
I woke up to Trump's so called victory speech at 9am but to my ears it sounded more like a refuse to accept defeat speech.
Then I had a look at Michigan,  46.1% for Biden but still counting,  30 mins later it 47.5% The needle was moving faster than the fuel needle in my jeep.
MI +WI+NV  + 238 = ByeDon.   PA is not forgone,  the Biden bullet (mail votes)  has yet to bite
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:01:27 PM
I think Biden will end up winning the popular vote by a massive amount

And he could take every remaining state
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:02:52 PM
The Blue Shift is real and it's deciding this election

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/brace-blue-shift/615097/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 04, 2020, 01:04:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:01:27 PM
I think Biden will end up winning the popular vote by a massive amount

And he could take every remaining state

I think he's going to take all remaining ones bar Alaska myself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:09:14 PM
Looks like advantage Biden to me at this stage but still a lot of votes left to count

Bigger news is that Republicans seem to have held the senate

So even if Biden gets in his agenda is going nowhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 01:09:30 PM
There won't be a car not honking in Delaware this evening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 01:09:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:01:27 PM
I think Biden will end up winning the popular vote by a massive amount

And he could take every remaining state

Oh that's an absolute given. Still a huge number of uncounted votes in likes of CA and NY

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 04, 2020, 01:04:37 PM
I think he's going to take all remaining ones bar Alaska myself.

Never seen any data on NC for a while but think that was still looking like staying red. GA still very close. PA who knows but you'd hope/assume vast majority of those 1.4m absentee ballots to go to Biden. He has 700k to make up though, meaning he'd need over two thirds of them.

If Biden wins with both PA and GA the narrative is completely different. Ok Florida wasn't as close as hoped and Texas in the same boat, but it's still an overwhelming flip
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: JoG2 on November 04, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 12:52:48 PM
I woke up to Trump's so called victory speech at 9am but to my ears it sounded more like a refuse to accept defeat speech.
Then I had a look at Michigan,  46.1% for Biden but still counting,  30 mins later it 47.5% The needle was moving faster than the fuel needle in my jeep.
MI +WI+NV  + 238 = ByeDon.   PA is not forgone,  the Biden bullet (mail votes)  has yet to bite

A laugh out loud moment there.. Know that feeling
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Biden has now received more votes than any candidate in history

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Biden has now received more votes than any candidate in history

That and $5 gets you a coffee at Starbucks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 01:30:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:09:14 PM
Looks like advantage Biden to me at this stage but still a lot of votes left to count

Bigger news is that Republicans seem to have held the senate

So even if Biden gets in his agenda is going nowhere.

Clarence Thomas to retire next week if Biden wins then? ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: weareros on November 04, 2020, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Biden has now received more votes than any candidate in history

That and $5 gets you a coffee at Starbucks

In a clearly very divided country, it gives Biden a powerful mandate when he surpasses 270, as looking more likely. Trump likes to big up his crowds, but if his opponent secures the highest vote in US history, it's hard to argue against that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 01:34:50 PM
Ewan MacKenna calling it for Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 04, 2020, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Biden has now received more votes than any candidate in history

That and $5 gets you a coffee at Starbucks

In a clearly very divided country, it gives Biden a powerful mandate when he surpasses 270, as looking more likely. Trump likes to big up his crowds, but if his opponent secures the highest vote in US history, it's hard to argue against that.
Biden has massively expanded the electorate

He speaks to ordinary people in a way the sneering, out of touch Republican elite simply don't understand how to do

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 04, 2020, 01:49:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 04, 2020, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Biden has now received more votes than any candidate in history

That and $5 gets you a coffee at Starbucks

In a clearly very divided country, it gives Biden a powerful mandate when he surpasses 270, as looking more likely. Trump likes to big up his crowds, but if his opponent secures the highest vote in US history, it's hard to argue against that.
Biden has massively expanded the electorate

He speaks to ordinary people in a way the sneering, out of touch Republican elite simply don't understand how to do


Unfortunately I'd say Trump has managed to speak to ordinary people well enough! Even if it is all lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 04, 2020, 01:49:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 04, 2020, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Biden has now received more votes than any candidate in history

That and $5 gets you a coffee at Starbucks

In a clearly very divided country, it gives Biden a powerful mandate when he surpasses 270, as looking more likely. Trump likes to big up his crowds, but if his opponent secures the highest vote in US history, it's hard to argue against that.
Biden has massively expanded the electorate

He speaks to ordinary people in a way the sneering, out of touch Republican elite simply don't understand how to do


Unfortunately I'd say Trump has managed to speak to ordinary people well enough! Even if it is all lies.

In spite of Covid, impeachment, Russia hoax, Mueller investigation-Trump has massively grown his base too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 04, 2020, 01:51:51 PM
Hard to keep up with the bookie odds, Trump was 1/10 on to win and then moved out to 4/1 and now coming back in at 5/2. Must be huge money thrown at this race. When is a winner expected to be declared this evening or tomorrow?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 01:09:59 PM
Never seen any data on NC for a while but think that was still looking like staying red. GA still very close. PA who knows but you'd hope/assume vast majority of those 1.4m absentee ballots to go to Biden. He has 700k to make up though, meaning he'd need over two thirds of them.

If Biden wins with both PA and GA the narrative is completely different. Ok Florida wasn't as close as hoped and Texas in the same boat, but it's still an overwhelming flip

I think NC will stay the same. The NYTimes suggests that Biden will make up the PA deficit from the absentee votes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 01:55:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 01:34:50 PM
Ewan MacKenna calling it for Biden.

Well thats it then
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armamike on November 04, 2020, 01:55:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 04, 2020, 01:49:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 04, 2020, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Biden has now received more votes than any candidate in history

That and $5 gets you a coffee at Starbucks

In a clearly very divided country, it gives Biden a powerful mandate when he surpasses 270, as looking more likely. Trump likes to big up his crowds, but if his opponent secures the highest vote in US history, it's hard to argue against that.
Biden has massively expanded the electorate

He speaks to ordinary people in a way the sneering, out of touch Republican elite simply don't understand how to do


Unfortunately I'd say Trump has managed to speak to ordinary people well enough! Even if it is all lies.

In spite of Covid, impeachment, Russia hoax, Mueller investigation-Trump has massively grown his base too

Add general uselessness into that mix.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: JoG2 on November 04, 2020, 02:03:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 04, 2020, 01:49:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 04, 2020, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Biden has now received more votes than any candidate in history

That and $5 gets you a coffee at Starbucks

In a clearly very divided country, it gives Biden a powerful mandate when he surpasses 270, as looking more likely. Trump likes to big up his crowds, but if his opponent secures the highest vote in US history, it's hard to argue against that.
Biden has massively expanded the electorate

He speaks to ordinary people in a way the sneering, out of touch Republican elite simply don't understand how to do


Unfortunately I'd say Trump has managed to speak to ordinary people well enough! Even if it is all lies.

In spite of Covid, impeachment, Russia hoax, Mueller investigation-Trump has massively grown his base too

Still a ballbag though
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 04, 2020, 02:03:50 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 04, 2020, 01:51:51 PM
Hard to keep up with the bookie odds, Trump was 1/10 on to win and then moved out to 4/1 and now coming back in at 5/2. Must be huge money thrown at this race. When is a winner expected to be declared this evening or tomorrow?

Maybe not, Pennsylvania won't declare until Friday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 04, 2020, 02:05:12 PM
Michigan going blue
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 04, 2020, 02:05:57 PM
Quote from: dec on November 04, 2020, 02:03:50 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 04, 2020, 01:51:51 PM
Hard to keep up with the bookie odds, Trump was 1/10 on to win and then moved out to 4/1 and now coming back in at 5/2. Must be huge money thrown at this race. When is a winner expected to be declared this evening or tomorrow?

Maybe not, Pennsylvania won't declare until Friday.

Won't matter if MI, WI and NV go blue. Which is very possible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 02:07:43 PM
Should there be a tie in the senate then the VP has the casting vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:25:42 PM
Michigan going to have a huge say in thus outcome. Biden narrowly in front. If it stays that way Biden will go 1/8 and the game will almost be up for Bluffer Don.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 04, 2020, 02:28:37 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:25:42 PM
Michigan going to have a huge say in thus outcome. Biden narrowly in front. If it stays that way Biden will go 1/8 and the game will almost be up for Bluffer Don.

There are 400,000-ish votes still to be counted in Wayne County, which has been 66% Biden so far. He could win MI quite comfortably in the end.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 04, 2020, 02:05:12 PM
Michigan going blue

Biden ahead and still a quarter of Wayne county (Detroit) votes to count, other areas with votes left to count are all fairly balanced.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tatler Jack on November 04, 2020, 02:36:43 PM
Is Nevada safe for Biden? Narrow lead and quite a few votes to be counted?

Could Biden still take Georgia or is margin too great?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
The betting on this is truly extraordinary. Biden now 1/5 with Paddy Power!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
The betting on this is truly extraordinary. Biden now 1/5 with Paddy Power!

How can they get it so wrong? With predictive models based on decent sample sizes, focussing on swing states. I just dont get it. Experts getting it wrong again. Fair play to the fella that managed to get Biden at 4/1. Gaaboard analysts seem to know more than the experts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: Tatler Jack on November 04, 2020, 02:36:43 PM
Is Nevada safe for Biden? Narrow lead and quite a few votes to be counted?

Could Biden still take Georgia or is margin too great?
Biden has a clear path

I find it very hard to see how he could lose any of Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin or Michigan now

What remains everywhere is mail ballots and largely urban
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tatler Jack on November 04, 2020, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: Tatler Jack on November 04, 2020, 02:36:43 PM
Is Nevada safe for Biden? Narrow lead and quite a few votes to be counted?

Could Biden still take Georgia or is margin too great?
Biden has a clear path

I find it very hard to see how he could lose any of Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin or Michigan now

What remains everywhere is mail ballots and largely urban

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 04, 2020, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
The betting on this is truly extraordinary. Biden now 1/5 with Paddy Power!

How can they get it so wrong? With predictive models based on decent sample sizes, focussing on swing states. I just dont get it. Experts getting it wrong again. Fair play to the fella that managed to get Biden at 4/1. Gaaboard analysts seem to know more than the experts.

Biden 1/6 now. PPs only reflecting the money staked with it, rather than trying to predict the market.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 02:53:54 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 04, 2020, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
The betting on this is truly extraordinary. Biden now 1/5 with Paddy Power!

How can they get it so wrong? With predictive models based on decent sample sizes, focussing on swing states. I just dont get it. Experts getting it wrong again. Fair play to the fella that managed to get Biden at 4/1. Gaaboard analysts seem to know more than the experts.

Biden 1/6 now. PPs only reflecting the money staked with it, rather than trying to predict the market.

The money staked generally reflects the market.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 04, 2020, 02:54:42 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
The betting on this is truly extraordinary. Biden now 1/5 with Paddy Power!

How can they get it so wrong? With predictive models based on decent sample sizes, focussing on swing states. I just dont get it. Experts getting it wrong again. Fair play to the fella that managed to get Biden at 4/1. Gaaboard analysts seem to know more than the experts.

It's explained I think by the order in which mail-in votes were counted; in FL, they were counted first giving Biden an early lead that Trump clawed back. If that pattern were replicated in other swing states, Trump would be home and hosed which drove the odds down on him winning. In these northern states, the reverse is true however, postal votes are being counted last so Biden is clawing back on Trump's lead
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 02:58:49 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
The betting on this is truly extraordinary. Biden now 1/5 with Paddy Power!

How can they get it so wrong? With predictive models based on decent sample sizes, focussing on swing states. I just dont get it. Experts getting it wrong again. Fair play to the fella that managed to get Biden at 4/1. Gaaboard analysts seem to know more than the experts.

Ed Rendell-former Democratic Giv of PA said every Poll he'd seen undercounted Trump support by between 2-3%

Add in the fact that Trump supporters also lie to the pollsters (anecdotal, I know)

And how good is a model when you have no way of predicting massive turnout
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.

Where is your evidence for this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 03:00:52 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
The betting on this is truly extraordinary. Biden now 1/5 with Paddy Power!

The odds are up and down twisting and turning like a Monaghan road.
A lot of people have made money already.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 03:01:40 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
The betting on this is truly extraordinary. Biden now 1/5 with Paddy Power!

How can they get it so wrong? With predictive models based on decent sample sizes, focussing on swing states. I just dont get it. Experts getting it wrong again. Fair play to the fella that managed to get Biden at 4/1. Gaaboard analysts seem to know more than the experts.

They didn't understand the significance of the mail in ballots and the timing of how they were counted in the different states in this extraordinary, unique election. That's it in a nutshell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.

Where is your evidence for this?

Seriously?

He's very publicly railing against the counting of votes!

Something he's been threatening for months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 04, 2020, 03:02:29 PM
How big has the turnout been. Any figures for total votes counted so far? And how that compares to total votes from 2016?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:03:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 03:01:40 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
The betting on this is truly extraordinary. Biden now 1/5 with Paddy Power!

How can they get it so wrong? With predictive models based on decent sample sizes, focussing on swing states. I just dont get it. Experts getting it wrong again. Fair play to the fella that managed to get Biden at 4/1. Gaaboard analysts seem to know more than the experts.

They didn't understand the significance of the mail in ballots and the timing of how they were counted in the different states in this extraordinary, unique election. That's it in a nutshell.

Who are we talking about?

The bookies?

Or the pollsters?

If the latter, I'd give things a bit of time so the counts can be completed.

If the former, well they have to respond to their market or they'll get wiped out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.

Where is your evidence for this?

Seriously?

He's very publicly railing against the counting of votes!

Something he's been threatening for months.

Again where did he say this? Not in his press conference speech this morning when he called for no voting after the polls had closed.

He didn't say no counting, which would have been nonsensical as votes have to be counted sometime after polls close.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 03:05:49 PM
The bookies. Yes, they follow the money but in hindsight, having Joe at 4/1 shows they didn't understand the data either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 03:13:43 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 04, 2020, 03:02:29 PM
How big has the turnout been. Any figures for total votes counted so far? And how that compares to total votes from 2016?

67% turnout. It was 55.7% in 2016. It's the highest turnout since 1900.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.

Where is your evidence for this?

Seriously?

He's very publicly railing against the counting of votes!

Something he's been threatening for months.

Again where did he say this? Not in his press conference speech this morning when he called for no voting after the polls had closed.

He didn't say no counting, which would have been nonsensical as votes have to be counted sometime after polls close.

Fair enough.

He did however say that the election was being stolen. Given that no voting was taking place after the "poles" had closed, and no one had or has presented anything remotely resembling evidence that it was, what else could his implication have been?

Do you think it was a responsible bit of rhetoric for a president or presidential candidate to put out, especially with the country on a knife-age bracing for trouble?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 03:14:47 PM
The Donald speaks:

QuoteLast night I was leading, often solidly, in many key States, in almost all instances Democrat run & controlled. Then, one by one, they started to magically disappear as surprise ballot dumps were counted. VERY STRANGE, and the "pollsters" got it completely & historically wrong!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:16:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 03:14:47 PM
The Donald speaks:

QuoteLast night I was leading, often solidly, in many key States, in almost all instances Democrat run & controlled. Then, one by one, they started to magically disappear as surprise ballot dumps were counted. VERY STRANGE, and the "pollsters" got it completely & historically wrong!

Evidently the existence of the mail-in ballots he's been crying about for the past six months is a surprise to him.

Evidently he has also forgotten the mid-term elections of 2018 and the so-called "blue shift" in the days following election day when after his initial triumpalism about the on-the-night-reported results, he got stuck with a large changeover of the House once everything was counted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 04, 2020, 03:16:39 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.

Where is your evidence for this?

Seriously?

He's very publicly railing against the counting of votes!

Something he's been threatening for months.

Again where did he say this? Not in his press conference speech this morning when he called for no voting after the polls had closed.

He didn't say no counting, which would have been nonsensical as votes have to be counted sometime after polls close.

He did say voting rather than counting.

Most commentators are treating it as an error and he meant counting.

I agree with them. Why? Because he has been going on about this for a year. And also he said he has already decided to take this to the Supreme Court. If he meant voting then he surely would have called out the places where voting was ongoing or had went on beyond the rules in the relevant state. Surely?

I think it would be helpful if all elected representatives and candidates and the party machines could make a clear statement that they are committed to democracy and all votes being counted unless there is specific evidence of fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 04, 2020, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:16:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 03:14:47 PM
The Donald speaks:

QuoteLast night I was leading, often solidly, in many key States, in almost all instances Democrat run & controlled. Then, one by one, they started to magically disappear as surprise ballot dumps were counted. VERY STRANGE, and the "pollsters" got it completely & historically wrong!

Evidently the existence of the mail-in ballots he's been crying about for the past six months is a surprise to him.

I think it's time for Trump to spell out what fraud has occurred, where and to what extent and the supporting evidence
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 04, 2020, 03:21:12 PM
Looking at this now it is Biden 224, Trump 213.

Trump likely to get NC(15) GE(16) and AK(3) = 247

Biden likely to get MI(16), WI(10), AZ(11) and ME(4) = 265.

That leaves NV(6) & PA(20). Trump needs both. Biden needs either.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 03:05:49 PM
The bookies. Yes, they follow the money but in hindsight, having Joe at 4/1 shows they didn't understand the data either.

50 election races, with local issues and present and absent ballots, it is a bit tricky.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: CK_Redhand on November 04, 2020, 03:25:32 PM
A lot of people not understanding how bookkeepers odds work.

Bookies change their odds automatically as bets are placed. There is always a spread so they are always guaranteed to make money. It's called abitrage. Nobody sat down with a calculator and came up with 4/1 or whatever, this is all done in real time as bets come in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 04, 2020, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 03:13:43 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 04, 2020, 03:02:29 PM
How big has the turnout been. Any figures for total votes counted so far? And how that compares to total votes from 2016?

67% turnout. It was 55.7% in 2016. It's the highest turnout since 1900.
Thanks Gab. I see a figure of approx 160mil have voted in this election compared to 129mil in 2016. Incredible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.

Where is your evidence for this?

Seriously?

He's very publicly railing against the counting of votes!

Something he's been threatening for months.

Again where did he say this? Not in his press conference speech this morning when he called for no voting after the polls had closed.

He didn't say no counting, which would have been nonsensical as votes have to be counted sometime after polls close.

Fair enough.

He did however say that the election was being stolen. Given that no voting was taking place after the "poles" had closed, and no one had or has presented anything remotely resembling evidence that it was, what else could his implication have been?

Do you think it was a responsible bit of rhetoric for a president or presidential candidate to put out, especially with the country on a knife-age bracing for trouble?

I don't disagree with you in either respect but if he or his backroom people have evidence of irregularities, he's hardly going to produce it at a press conference in the middle of election night.

There is neither reason nor excuse for anyone to be causing trouble.

If the vote and its counting stand scrutiny, then so be it.

If there are irregularities or errors, there are processes in place to investigate and if necessary correct for these.

If in the meantime anyone creates violence or other public disorder, the law should deal with and punish them as it does other criminals.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 04, 2020, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 04, 2020, 03:21:12 PM
Looking at this now it is Biden 224, Trump 213.

Trump likely to get NC(15) GE(16) and AK(3) = 247

Biden likely to get MI(16), WI(10), AZ(11) and ME(4) = 265.

That leaves NV(6) & PA(20). Trump needs both. Biden needs either.

True with a caveat that there is still a chance for Biden in Georgia. Postal votes in large urban areas yet to come so Biden should close the gap and run it close
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 03:36:45 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 04, 2020, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 04, 2020, 03:21:12 PM
Looking at this now it is Biden 224, Trump 213.

Trump likely to get NC(15) GE(16) and AK(3) = 247

Biden likely to get MI(16), WI(10), AZ(11) and ME(4) = 265.

That leaves NV(6) & PA(20). Trump needs both. Biden needs either.

True with a caveat that there is still a chance for Biden in Georgia. Postal votes in large urban areas yet to come so Biden should close the gap and run it close
Also Trump has still a chance in Arizona
At 82%, Biden was up by 130k
At 86%, Biden leads by 93k

No idea how the remaining 14% goes, but also one to watch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:37:09 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.

Where is your evidence for this?

Seriously?

He's very publicly railing against the counting of votes!

Something he's been threatening for months.

Again where did he say this? Not in his press conference speech this morning when he called for no voting after the polls had closed.

He didn't say no counting, which would have been nonsensical as votes have to be counted sometime after polls close.

Fair enough.

He did however say that the election was being stolen. Given that no voting was taking place after the "poles" had closed, and no one had or has presented anything remotely resembling evidence that it was, what else could his implication have been?

Do you think it was a responsible bit of rhetoric for a president or presidential candidate to put out, especially with the country on a knife-age bracing for trouble?

I don't disagree with you in either respect but if he or his backroom people have evidence of irregularities, he's hardly going to produce it at a press conference in the middle of election night.

There is neither reason nor excuse for anyone to be causing trouble.

If the vote and its counting stand scrutiny, then so be it.

If there are irregularities or errors, there are processes in place to investigate and if necessary correct for these.

If in the meantime anyone creates violence or other public disorder, the law should deal with and punish them as it does other criminals.

I agree with that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 04, 2020, 03:46:30 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 04, 2020, 03:36:45 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 04, 2020, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 04, 2020, 03:21:12 PM
Looking at this now it is Biden 224, Trump 213.

Trump likely to get NC(15) GE(16) and AK(3) = 247

Biden likely to get MI(16), WI(10), AZ(11) and ME(4) = 265.

That leaves NV(6) & PA(20). Trump needs both. Biden needs either.

True with a caveat that there is still a chance for Biden in Georgia. Postal votes in large urban areas yet to come so Biden should close the gap and run it close
Also Trump has still a chance in Arizona
At 82%, Biden was up by 130k
At 86%, Biden leads by 93k

No idea how the remaining 14% goes, but also one to watch.

More than 300k votes to go in Maricopa County (Phoenix). Biden has been 6 pct points ahead there so far. That's why it is expected to be blue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
300,000 absentee ballots not delivered in Atlanta... 27% Of South Florida's mail ballots not delivered!!!

Not great PR for the Postal Service. Do we know they guy running that?? Who are his known associates?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:58:10 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
300,000 absentee ballots not delivered in Atlanta... 27% Of South Florida's mail ballots not delivered!!!

Not great PR for the Postal Service. Do we know they guy running that?? Who are his known associates?

Are these blank ballots being delivered to homes?

Completed ballots mailed to polling centres?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
The latter from what I read of it. Sourced here:

https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1324004554485211136?s=19
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 04, 2020, 04:07:23 PM
Trump needs nc pa nv ga , az Wi mi look like Biden's
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:12:59 PM
Nevada looks like Biden's, unless Clark and Washoe counties have areas in them where Trump is going to run up the score (they're dominated by Las Vegas and Reno, respectively).

Where's Puckoon? Doesn't he live somewhere around Reno?

Around 75% of each reporting so far. Biden 7 points up in Vegas, 4 in Reno.

Presumably that will hold, unless there are a bunch of wealthy GOP areas within that haven't reported yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
The latter from what I read of it. Sourced here:

https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1324004554485211136?s=19

Let's hope they're not decisive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:18:35 PM
Actually, apparently Nevada is done apart from mail-in ballots that came in yesterday and over the next few days, and provisional ballots.

No more results until tomorrow morning, Vegas time. Hold onto your hats!

https://twitter.com/NVElect/status/1323939477060943877 (https://twitter.com/NVElect/status/1323939477060943877)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:12:59 PM
Nevada looks like Biden's, unless Clark and Washoe counties have areas in them where Trump is going to run up the score (they're dominated by Las Vegas and Reno, respectively).

Where's Puckoon? Doesn't he live somewhere around Reno?

Around 75% of each reporting so far. Biden 7 points up in Vegas, 4 in Reno.

Presumably that will hold, unless there are a bunch of wealthy GOP areas within that haven't reported yet.

Yeah - he's up in Reno
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 04:27:10 PM
Biden now 34,000 ahead in Michigan, and 20% of votes around Detroit still to come.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:28:15 PM
Not to be too much of a nerd, but the registered voting population of Nevada was 1.8 million last January (presumably its gone up a bit since).
https://www.nvsos.gov/sos/home/showdocument?id=8344 (https://www.nvsos.gov/sos/home/showdocument?id=8344)

If turnout is around 67% (think someone said that is what it is nationally), then around 1.2 million would be expected to vote based on the January number.

Which is roughly the number of votes counted so far between the two of them.

May not be that many left to count, but with the margin less than 8K, who knows what will happen? One would expect the bulk of the remaining mail-ins to be from Vegas and Reno, but we'll see.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:28:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
The latter from what I read of it. Sourced here:

https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1324004554485211136?s=19

Let's hope they're not decisive.

Doesn't look like they will be but could go a significant way towards explaining relative Biden under performance in Florida.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 04, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Biden takes Wisconsin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:50:19 PM
According to 538 Arizona is not certain for Biden yet, despite some having called it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:50:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 04, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Biden takes Wisconsin

Which network made the call?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 05:02:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:50:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 04, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Biden takes Wisconsin

Which network made the call?

their own electoral commission has
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 04, 2020, 05:03:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 04:50:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 04, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Biden takes Wisconsin

Which network made the call?


NBC News

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1324031360093327363 (https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1324031360093327363)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 05:33:23 PM
Biden now 1/7 - cant see all bookies getting it so wrong now.

No matter what shite Trump pulls he should go quietly - the more noise and nonsense he makes up the more chance for trouble/riots etc.

If all is above board (and I have seen nothing concrete to say otherwise) then he should take it gracefully (if he ever can).

Now that Biden is in it should be good news for us in the North with regards a hard border.

Lets see Johnson squirm now - the arrogant p***k - I see he wouldnt comment on it this afternoon as he now knows Biden will win.

We really should have seen the writing on the wall after the DUP rowed in behind Trump  ;D .............everything they touch turns to shit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 05:33:23 PM
Biden now 1/7 - cant see all bookies getting it so wrong now.

No matter what shite Trump pulls he should go quietly - the more noise and nonsense he makes up the more chance for trouble/riots etc.

If all is above board (and I have seen nothing concrete to say otherwise) then he should take it gracefully (if he ever can).

Now that Biden is in it should be good news for us in the North with regards a hard border.

Lets see Johnson squirm now - the arrogant p***k - I see he wouldnt comment on it this afternoon as he now knows Biden will win.

We really should have seen the writing on the wall after the DUP rowed in behind Trump  ;D .............everything they touch turns to shit

Sammy Wilson , have a good day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 05:41:05 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 05:33:23 PM
Biden now 1/7 - cant see all bookies getting it so wrong now.

No matter what shite Trump pulls he should go quietly - the more noise and nonsense he makes up the more chance for trouble/riots etc.

If all is above board (and I have seen nothing concrete to say otherwise) then he should take it gracefully (if he ever can).

Now that Biden is in it should be good news for us in the North with regards a hard border.

Lets see Johnson squirm now - the arrogant p***k - I see he wouldnt comment on it this afternoon as he now knows Biden will win.

We really should have seen the writing on the wall after the DUP rowed in behind Trump  ;D .............everything they touch turns to shit

Jolene Bunting will be incoherent.....again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 05:42:04 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 04, 2020, 05:33:23 PM
Biden now 1/7 - cant see all bookies getting it so wrong now.

No matter what shite Trump pulls he should go quietly - the more noise and nonsense he makes up the more chance for trouble/riots etc.

If all is above board (and I have seen nothing concrete to say otherwise) then he should take it gracefully (if he ever can).

Now that Biden is in it should be good news for us in the North with regards a hard border.

Lets see Johnson squirm now - the arrogant p***k - I see he wouldnt comment on it this afternoon as he now knows Biden will win.

We really should have seen the writing on the wall after the DUP rowed in behind Trump  ;D .............everything they touch turns to shit

Bookies should take odds for that, 1/10 on I'd say that Trump won't go quietly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 04, 2020, 05:43:46 PM
If he's beat the first problem is getting him to go full stop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 05:44:08 PM
If Wisconsin has certified its results and Biden has the most why is nobody calling it??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 05:57:22 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 05:56:20 AM
Fox publicly standing over calling Arizona.
For once Democrats hope Fox are telling the truth  ;D

You mean Democrats hope Fox are telling the truth for once! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 06:05:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 05:44:08 PM
If Wisconsin has certified its results and Biden has the most why is nobody calling it??

Could be the close margin. I head Trump is expected to request a recount, which he's allowed to do if the margin is within 1%.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 06:06:07 PM
Handy tool here for watching which networks have made calls in which states:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/upshot/network-race-call-tracker.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 06:09:19 PM
There's a postal ballot blue shift expected in Pennsylvania. Trump's 9% ahead there, this is expected because the mail ballots are counted later than the day-of ballots.

Georgia's an interesting one:

We are waiting on further returns from Georgia, and a small batch of about 25,000 votes has come in that narrowed Trump's edge in the state from about 2.2 points to 1.8 points, according to data from ABC News. Now 93 percent of the expected vote is in, so it remains to be seen whether enough Democratic votes are out there to overcome Trump's roughly 85,000-vote lead, or whether the president will hold on. But the outstanding votes do tend to come from counties in the Atlanta metro area, where Biden leads.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 06:14:32 PM
WI recount.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 06:20:53 PM
Wi was supposed to be easier for Biden to win than PA. Could be ominous for PA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 06:23:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 06:20:53 PM
Wi was supposed to be easier for Biden to win than PA. Could be ominous for PA.

WI ended within the 1%, hence the entitlement to a recount. PA is uncertain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 06:24:13 PM
Quoth Wisconsin Elections:

"Remember, the unofficial numbers being reported for Wisconsin come from the news media. The state doesn't have its own election night system for unofficial results. The WEC won't start getting official numbers from county clerks til next week."

This could explain why the networks haven't called it yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 06:38:03 PM
Of the 200,000 uncounted votes in Georgia, most come from left-leaning areas of metropolitan Atlanta, suggesting they're likely to skew Democratic.

An estimated 200,000 votes remain uncounted in Georgia, officials say — that's more than double Trump's current margin over Biden in the state
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Trump is 80,000 ahead. So Biden would need three quarters of the 200,000. He'll get that in some of the districts near Atlanta, but there are some country districts with a few votes as well and these will give Trump something. A narrow victory (10,000?) for Trump seems most probable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 06:54:29 PM
PP has Trump at 2/1.

The entertainment & dynamics in US elections is fantastic. Irish and UK elections are over before they've even started.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 04, 2020, 07:00:22 PM
Irish ones?????
How long are you gone from the Country ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.

Where is your evidence for this?

Seriously?

He's very publicly railing against the counting of votes!

Something he's been threatening for months.

Again where did he say this? Not in his press conference speech this morning when he called for no voting after the polls had closed.

He didn't say no counting, which would have been nonsensical as votes have to be counted sometime after polls close.

Fair enough.

He did however say that the election was being stolen. Given that no voting was taking place after the "poles" had closed, and no one had or has presented anything remotely resembling evidence that it was, what else could his implication have been?

Do you think it was a responsible bit of rhetoric for a president or presidential candidate to put out, especially with the country on a knife-age bracing for trouble?
But Trump did not call for "no voting after the polls had closed" 

From his "victory" podium, this morning  he said   "We will be going to the US supreme court, we want all voting to stop".
Which ranks as one of the most stupid statements he has made today, but it's just another brain fart in the life of Trump.

Perhaps as usual some people will jump through hoolahops to explain that he did not mean that,  he actually meant this. .....


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 04, 2020, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: five points on November 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
In all my years I never saw a 4/1 chance fluctuate to 1/5 so quickly in whats basically a two horse race. It looks like the so called experts havent a clue whats going on in that crazy mixed up place...where the acting president publicly wants to flout the key principle of democracy....and yet still manages to get circa 49% of the country voting for him.

For that alone this cowboy deserves to be in the WTF thread on this discussion board.

Where is your evidence for this?

Seriously?

He's very publicly railing against the counting of votes!

Something he's been threatening for months.

Again where did he say this? Not in his press conference speech this morning when he called for no voting after the polls had closed.

He didn't say no counting, which would have been nonsensical as votes have to be counted sometime after polls close.

Now they ARE saying no counting.

There's some legs left in this one yet.

The Orangeman will pull every dirty stroke he can to hold onto this one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 08:48:57 PM
Had Fox on today in background some craic, have some CNN on now, still democratic media but not in the same ball park as Fox!

Pennsylvania will go Trump, and he's still wanting to question and go to court about the votes!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 08:52:15 PM
Looking at the count centre in Detroit there... loads of people trying to get in to "monitor" the count.

The longer this goes on the messier it could get!!  Apparently Giuliani and Eric are due to have a Press Conference in PA at some stage... the circus continues!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 09:05:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 08:48:57 PM
Had Fox on today in background some craic, have some CNN on now, still democratic media but not in the same ball park as Fox!

Pennsylvania will go Trump, and he's still wanting to question and go to court about the votes!
Highly doubtful, Biden is closing like a train

Nate Cohn of the NY Times thinks Biden will overhaul Trump

But the threat of Trump stealing an election he has lost is very real
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2020, 09:09:30 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 06:54:29 PM
PP has Trump at 2/1.

The entertainment & dynamics in US elections is fantastic. Irish and UK elections are over before they've even started.

Back out to 7/2 again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 09:17:49 PM
Impressive speech by Biden just now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 09:19:16 PM
Michigan is done not sure why they're not calling it.

Pennsylvania/Nevada/Arizona/Georgia all a toss up at what stage is it called?? Can Georgia and Arizona be called tonight and it's game over??

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 09:20:36 PM
Michigan called by CNN the rest should follow

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 09:24:50 PM
CNN  came out and announced that Joe has Michigan, also say that Joe's not just on a flip hatrick, but on a run of flips that will certainly lead Joe and Kamala to the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 09:27:22 PM
Michigan is the ball game.

I saw Eric a trump has called PA for his da. That was good of him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 09:29:34 PM
Great speech Joe!

What the feck are they doing in Nevada?? Get off yer asses and start counting!
Still nervous about it and AZ.
Although PA and Georgia not out of Biden's reach
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
Take time and do it right. No need to rush the calls.

Let Trump twist in the wind, throwing shit at the wall, saying count here and shut it down there.

Count the votes properly and let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 09:30:20 PM
Nevada no resumption of counting until tomorrow i thought?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 04, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 09:30:20 PM
Nevada no resumption of counting until tomorrow i thought?
I thought this was tomorrow! 🤪
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 04, 2020, 09:35:12 PM
And 1/9 with PP.  Trump a value bet now at 6/1?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 09:38:22 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 09:30:20 PM
Nevada no resumption of counting until tomorrow i thought?

Nope - they are getting back at it today
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 04, 2020, 09:46:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
Take time and do it right. No need to rush the calls.

Let Trump twist in the wind, throwing shit at the wall, saying count here and shut it down there.

Count the votes properly and let the chips fall where they may.

Disagree.

Speed is critical here.

Give him enough time to get his 'fraud' message out there and the nutters will cause chaos.

This needs to be over quickly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 09:47:11 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 04, 2020, 09:46:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
Take time and do it right. No need to rush the calls.

Let Trump twist in the wind, throwing shit at the wall, saying count here and shut it down there.

Count the votes properly and let the chips fall where they may.

Disagree.

Speed is critical here.

Give him enough time to get his 'fraud' message out there and the nutters will cause chaos.

This needs to be over quickly.
+1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 04, 2020, 09:38:22 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 09:30:20 PM
Nevada no resumption of counting until tomorrow i thought?

Nope - they are getting back at it today

Are they?? NYT says we won't have an update until Noon Eastern time tomorrow.

Watched a bit of that Trump Jr Rudi presser... what a shit show!!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 04, 2020, 09:50:14 PM
georgia  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 04, 2020, 09:29:34 PM
Great speech Joe!

What the feck are they doing in Nevada?? Get off yer asses and start counting!
Still nervous about it and AZ.
Although PA and Georgia not out of Biden's reach

From Nate Silver:

Nevada. This one's a bit more straightforward. Biden leads by only 0.6 percent or about 7,500 votes. But what's remaining should be pretty good for him. It's all mail-in ballots that were either received late in the process or which are still coming in — in Nevada, mail ballots can be received by Nov. 10 provided they're postmarked by Election Day. The mail ballots were quite blue in Nevada by party registration, much more so than in Arizona, including votes that arrived relatively late in the process. Likely Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 04, 2020, 09:52:36 PM
Risible Trump campaigners on Sky from Penn., looking to gain access to scrutinise the vote-counting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 09:52:43 PM
Giuliani is on air now, presenting what he regards as evidence of fraud, namely  it was a conspiracy, a conspiracy by the democrats, a dastardly and criminal conspiracy by the crooked democrat machine of Philadelphia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 09:53:47 PM
Jesus Christ this press conference from Giuliani and Lewandowski and Eric is f**king incredible. Terrifying but incredible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 09:57:19 PM
Is Nevada counting at the minute? I see ABC and Fox have called arizona for Biden, so nevada would push him over the edge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Capt Pat on November 04, 2020, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 09:52:43 PM
Giuliani is on air now, presenting what he regards as evidence of fraud, namely  it was a conspiracy, a conspiracy by the democrats, a dastardly and criminal conspiracy by the crooked democrat machine of Philadelphia.

I thought the republicans had pennsylvania pretty safe? Are they under pressure again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 04, 2020, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 04, 2020, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 09:52:43 PM
Giuliani is on air now, presenting what he regards as evidence of fraud, namely  it was a conspiracy, a conspiracy by the democrats, a dastardly and criminal conspiracy by the crooked democrat machine of Philadelphia.

I thought the republicans had pennsylvania pretty safe? Are they under pressure again?

Democrats are 3/10 here so yes Republicans are in huge bother.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 10:02:50 PM
Also, has Alaska ever not been called 24 hours later?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 10:04:42 PM
Establishment Republicans are starting to run from Trump. Republican Governor of Ohio saying the US does a pretty good job of counting votes, all votes need to be counted and while he's for Trump, if Biden win then of course it'll be accepted. Was pressed about Giuliani's nonsense about a "national legal challenge". "Yeah, I don't even know what that means. I'm a lawyer"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 04, 2020, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 09:52:43 PM
Giuliani is on air now, presenting what he regards as evidence of fraud, namely  it was a conspiracy, a conspiracy by the democrats, a dastardly and criminal conspiracy by the crooked democrat machine of Philadelphia.

I thought the republicans had pennsylvania pretty safe? Are they under pressure again?

Biden's hitting all his marks in PA. The blue shift from postal votes in blue areas is going as projected by the models. 538 has it as 'lean Biden' for now, but that's just because we won't know the final tally until about Friday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2020, 10:12:32 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 09:52:43 PM
Giuliani is on air now, presenting what he regards as evidence of fraud, namely  it was a conspiracy, a conspiracy by the democrats, a dastardly and criminal conspiracy by the crooked democrat machine of Philadelphia.

That laptop is the gift that keeps on giving!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2020, 10:14:46 PM
Nevada will release an update today you were right Gabe!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 10:17:12 PM
Georgia very much in play again for Biden. About 400k still to be counted, Trump's lead down to 68k.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2020, 10:19:05 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/p6qQgS5/Screenshot-20201104-221811-Whats-App.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 10:33:09 PM
Trump claims Michigan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 10:35:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 10:17:12 PM
Georgia very much in play again for Biden. About 400k still to be counted, Trump's lead down to 68k.
Photo finish there

I suspect Biden might just have enough to dig it out by the skin of his teeth

Not just metro Atlanta but Savannah, also counties that Trump has a moderate lead in should produce a gain for Biden
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GJL on November 04, 2020, 10:41:19 PM
It's obvious now that Biden has won. (Thankfully). The interesting thing now will be how Trump reacts. Will he keep the protest going even after the numbers are announced or will be concede. I've images of him being dragged out of the WH in a straight jacket.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 11:06:47 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 04, 2020, 10:41:19 PM
It's obvious now that Biden has won. (Thankfully). The interesting thing now will be how Trump reacts. Will he keep the protest going even after the numbers are announced or will be concede. I've images of him being dragged out of the WH in a straight jacket.
I genuinely hope that happens

It would humiliate the whole Republican party forever, it would prove once and for all the total and utter contempt for democracy and the total retreat into a fantasy world of la la that has consumed the Republican party

Trumpism as a political force would be dead

It would still exist but would wither away

Trump's spectre will haunt the Republican party for a long time, I think

They stood idly by and enabled a fascist child emperor who made the US the laughing stock of the world

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Can Trump run for office again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 04, 2020, 11:11:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Can Trump run for office again?
Yes. He has only had one term so far.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 11:15:11 PM
I wish you were right, Sid, but sadly I don't think we've heard the last of the poisonous ideology that spawned Trump. His dumpster fire of a presidency was a symptom of the problem, not the cause. And since we seem to have fallen short of taking back the Senate it looks like Biden is going to be kneecapped from the start. McConnell will block everything for the next two years, Fox News and the rest of the RWNJ media machine will blame the "do-nothing Democrats" for it, and the Dems could lose the house in 2022 and potentially another SCOTUS seat. The period of minority rule is not over yet, not by a long way.

Obama had a two-year "Skywalker" window in which to get things done, and I'm glad he got at least some sort of healthcare reform through. Biden's not going to be able to do a damn thing other than executive orders and foreign policy.

Stand by for Fox News to revert to anti-executive-order mode and the Rethuglicans to revert to deficit hawks. The national debt is about to become their number one concern all of a sudden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 11:16:07 PM
Quote from: dec on November 04, 2020, 11:11:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Can Trump run for office again?
Yes. He has only had one term so far.

He'll be holding rallies for the next four years, starting in January, and probably even sooner. Just you wait.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:23:24 PM
And providing how Biden goes, he'll have a chance!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 11:33:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 04, 2020, 10:41:19 PM
It's obvious now that Biden has won. (Thankfully). The interesting thing now will be how Trump reacts. Will he keep the protest going even after the numbers are announced or will be concede. I've images of him being dragged out of the WH in a straight jacket.
Just go to any thread in the GAA section where Tyrone has just lost a championship game and you can a fair idea of what a Trump reaction will  look like.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2020, 11:34:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2020, 11:15:11 PM
I wish you were right, Sid, but sadly I don't think we've heard the last of the poisonous ideology that spawned Trump. His dumpster fire of a presidency was a symptom of the problem, not the cause. And since we seem to have fallen short of taking back the Senate it looks like Biden is going to be kneecapped from the start. McConnell will block everything for the next two years, Fox News and the rest of the RWNJ media machine will blame the "do-nothing Democrats" for it, and the Dems could lose the house in 2022 and potentially another SCOTUS seat. The period of minority rule is not over yet, not by a long way.

Obama had a two-year "Skywalker" window in which to get things done, and I'm glad he got at least some sort of healthcare reform through. Biden's not going to be able to do a damn thing other than executive orders and foreign policy.

Stand by for Fox News to revert to anti-executive-order mode and the Rethuglicans to revert to deficit hawks. The national debt is about to become their number one concern all of a sudden.
All of this will happen, but Trump will not win in 2024 if he runs again

I wouldn't be surprised if he's dead within a year though
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2020, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Can Trump run for office again?
Yes but I'd say they'll line up one of the offspring.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:39:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 11:33:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 04, 2020, 10:41:19 PM
It's obvious now that Biden has won. (Thankfully). The interesting thing now will be how Trump reacts. Will he keep the protest going even after the numbers are announced or will be concede. I've images of him being dragged out of the WH in a straight jacket.
Just go to any thread in the GAA section where Tyrone has just lost a championship game and you can a fair idea of what a Trump reaction will  look like.
;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 11:39:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2020, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Can Trump run for office again?
Yes but I'd say they'll line up one of the offspring.

Surely not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2020, 11:48:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 11:39:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2020, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Can Trump run for office again?
Yes but I'd say they'll line up one of the offspring.

Surely not.
Would hope not. The debt collectors will be round for him in a few days so he could be even more bankrupt by '24.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2020, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2020, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Can Trump run for office again?
Yes but I'd say they'll line up one of the offspring.
They say Donald Jr. is already well lined up   .......     to his eyeballs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2020, 11:52:06 PM
Looks like it's a done deal. Congratulations to Joe. He has already made overtures to those who didn't vote for him as one would expect

Maureen Dowd wrote a piece a few weeks ago about how it might be better for Joe if he didn't win the Senate. Her argument was that he'd be forced to go away to far left by the base, and then lose the house in 2022 I'll see if I can post it up

The polls were shocking bad but with record turn out that's not unexpected....that guy from Trafalgar was much closer than anyone

Delighted that Bloomberg didn't buy FL with his $100M in advertising

Glad to see Susan Collins hold her seat-I think the last 10 polls had her losing and she won without breaking a sweat in spite of massive outside spending against her  (as did McConnell and Graham)

Edit-it was Peggy Noonan who wrote the piece in the WSJ

"If Mr. Biden is an extremely lucky man he will win the presidency and his party will hold the House and lose the Senate. If the Democrats win all three they'll be a runaway train fueled by pent-up progressive demand. If the Democrats lose the Senate, Mr. Biden will have a handy excuse for his natural moderation: "You guys may want court packing, reparations and taxes on bovine flatulence but I've got to get it past Mitch McConnell." If the Democrats lose the Senate the Biden presidency will be more moderate, and more popular in a country whose nerves are shot.

ADVERTISEMENT

A Republican Senate will let Biden be Biden"




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 12:23:33 AM
Kayleigh McEnany on Fox news now, the very definition of a blonde bimbo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 05, 2020, 12:31:50 AM
Amazing the parallels between Trumpism and his acolytes in the US and the fantasy of Brexitism in the UK.

If Republicans hold the Senate, does that mean they can green light any trade deals with Britain?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 05, 2020, 12:35:42 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 12:23:33 AM
Kayleigh McEnany on Fox news now, the very definition of a blonde bimbo.

Georgetown , Oxford University and Harvard Law

She must have a few brain cells to rub together
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 12:39:58 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2020, 11:52:06 PM
Looks like it's a done deal. Congratulations to Joe. He has already made overtures to those who didn't vote for him as one would expect

Maureen Dowd wrote a piece a few weeks ago about how it might be better for Joe if he didn't win the Senate. Her argument was that he'd be forced to go away to far left by the base, and then lose the house in 2022 I'll see if I can post it up

The polls were shocking bad but with record turn out that's not unexpected....that guy from Trafalgar was much closer than anyone

Delighted that Bloomberg didn't buy FL with his $100M in advertising

Glad to see Susan Collins hold her seat-I think the last 10 polls had her losing and she won without breaking a sweat in spite of massive outside spending against her  (as did McConnell and Graham)

Edit-it was Peggy Noonan who wrote the piece in the WSJ

"If Mr. Biden is an extremely lucky man he will win the presidency and his party will hold the House and lose the Senate. If the Democrats win all three they'll be a runaway train fueled by pent-up progressive demand. If the Democrats lose the Senate, Mr. Biden will have a handy excuse for his natural moderation: "You guys may want court packing, reparations and taxes on bovine flatulence but I've got to get it past Mitch McConnell." If the Democrats lose the Senate the Biden presidency will be more moderate, and more popular in a country whose nerves are shot.

ADVERTISEMENT

A Republican Senate will let Biden be Biden"

Aside from my anxiety that Trump might still snatch it, I agree with a lot of that.

I'm not too down about the Senate, assuming Biden wins of course. All I give a f**k about really is that Trump is kicked out.

Hopefully Biden would be able to work with his old colleague McConnell on getting bipartisan stuff like the proverbial infrastructure up and running. A lot of the damage Trump has done can be turned around through the agencies.

And the House and Senate being offset might prevent a spiral of retaliatory partisan investigations bogging everything down.

A bit of moderation would do good all around after the past four years. Something like court packing would absolutely guarantee the loss of the House in '22. If the new GOP court goes crazy in the meantime, then see what options there are to run on legislative solutions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 12:45:54 AM
Quote from: mouview on November 05, 2020, 12:31:50 AM
Amazing the parallels between Trumpism and his acolytes in the US and the fantasy of Brexitism in the UK.

If Republicans hold the Senate, does that mean they can green light any trade deals with Britain?

Probably yeah but there would be a trade deal either way... also the protection of the GFaA would still be a thing and Biden could veto if he wasn't happy it's not being observed.

Watched McEnaney on Fox... it was a sad glimpse into the future. Literally 5 minutes worth of absolute bullshit spoken with an arrogance and authority that went unchallenged. You can see how uninformed people might believe the pretty girl on the TV with the big title who sounds like she knows what she's talking about.

These kind of pricks are showing up everywhere now it's only going to get worse!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 12:56:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 10:17:12 PM
Georgia very much in play again for Biden. About 400k still to be counted, Trump's lead down to 68k.

The Atlanta counties have some votes to be counted and an lot more people there than some of the other counties. Some of the Atlanta counties are 80%+ for Biden, hence the he is slight favourite to win Georgia.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 12:23:33 AM
Kayleigh McEnany on Fox news now, the very definition of a blonde bimbo.

Is she related to Banty?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 01:00:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 12:56:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 10:17:12 PM
Georgia very much in play again for Biden. About 400k still to be counted, Trump's lead down to 68k.

The Atlanta counties have some votes to be counted and an lot more people there than some of the other counties. Some of the Atlanta counties are 80%+ for Biden, hence the he is slight favourite to win Georgia.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 12:23:33 AM
Kayleigh McEnany on Fox news now, the very definition of a blonde bimbo.

Is she related to Banty?

Oh aye sure she's a daughter of Pat's!!

I have to say Democrats have played this to perfection with just enough fraud to carry the Presidency but making sure they wouldn't get enough to take back the Senate!!

Senior hurling!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 01:01:26 AM
Tucker's on!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 05, 2020, 01:28:16 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 12:45:54 AM
Quote from: mouview on November 05, 2020, 12:31:50 AM
Amazing the parallels between Trumpism and his acolytes in the US and the fantasy of Brexitism in the UK.

If Republicans hold the Senate, does that mean they can green light any trade deals with Britain?

Probably yeah but there would be a trade deal either way... also the protection of the GFaA would still be a thing and Biden could veto if he wasn’t happy it’s not being observed.



No.  Both senate and House of Representatives must agree on trade deals. So, unless the Reps take the House too, this isn't on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
Last night I went to bed when Biden moved out to 4/1. Tonight Trump is 7/1 and that'll do. The betting market odds for NV, AZ and PA are all 1/6 or thereabout for Biden and he is favourite, although less strongly, in Georgia. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 05, 2020, 02:10:43 AM
I think this past 36 hours or so puts to bed the idea that bookies odds yield any better idea of what's going on than polls do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 06:13:45 AM
Morning all.

There are now armed Trump protestors outside an Arizona count centre. Isn't this simply wonderful? USA! USA! USA!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 07:14:52 AM
Hannity is absolutely fuming. You love to see it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 05, 2020, 07:18:09 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 06:13:45 AM
Morning all.

There are now armed Trump protestors outside an Arizona count centre. Isn't this simply wonderful? USA! USA! USA!

Shouting "count all votes" or something like that. It must only be red votes that deserve counting.


And not Communist red.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 05, 2020, 07:21:37 AM
You have to hand it to that clampit. He lined this up well. Clearly knew this was coming and stoked it up beforehand now you have all these muppets buying into it ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:41:00 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 05, 2020, 01:28:16 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 12:45:54 AM
Quote from: mouview on November 05, 2020, 12:31:50 AM
Amazing the parallels between Trumpism and his acolytes in the US and the fantasy of Brexitism in the UK.

If Republicans hold the Senate, does that mean they can green light any trade deals with Britain?

Probably yeah but there would be a trade deal either way... also the protection of the GFaA would still be a thing and Biden could veto if he wasn't happy it's not being observed.



No.  Both senate and House of Representatives must agree on trade deals. So, unless the Reps take the House too, this isn't on.

They won't take it, and leader of the house Nancy Pelosi has said to Boris forget about a trade deal if you break the GFA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 05, 2020, 07:46:26 AM
Race tightening in Arizona with every batch, state definitely still in play. CNN reports that if the final votes have the same proportion as recent batches then Trump will overtake Biden. But no guarantee of that of course.

I'm still sceptical about Nevada predictions.

I see that if AZ and Nevada turn to Trump and Biden overtakes in Georgia (on course but also far from guaranteed), with everything else staying the same, then it would be 269-269 !
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 05, 2020, 08:00:02 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 07:46:26 AM
Race tightening in Arizona with every batch, state definitely still in play. CNN reports that if the final votes have the same proportion as recent batches then Trump will overtake Biden. But no guarantee of that of course.

I'm still sceptical about Nevada predictions.

I see that if AZ and Nevada turn to Trump and Biden overtakes in Georgia (on course but also far from guaranteed), with everything else staying the same, then it would be 269-269 !

Big If on Trump holding PA. It doesn't look likely he will.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
What's this shít about news networks "calling it" in certain states?

Is this just them trying to get the jump on their competitors or what?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 05, 2020, 08:28:46 AM
QuoteTrump supporters chanting 'Count the votes!' in Arizona and 'Stop the count!' in Michigan sums it all up perfectly. It's the most obvious manifestation of his regime's successful assault on objective truth, waved through by much of the media on both sides of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 05, 2020, 08:51:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
What's this shít about news networks "calling it" in certain states?

Is this just them trying to get the jump on their competitors or what?

It's the American way. Typically the votes the come late (military and other overseas) and when enough credible sources call it one way the losing candidate concedes long before the final vote is counted.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 05, 2020, 08:53:51 AM
It's very clear that on their behaviour post election one of the candidates has been presidential and one has fallen a long way short.

It's also very clear that one of the teams is behaving in a principled manner and one in very much an unprincipled manner.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 09:11:05 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
What's this shít about news networks "calling it" in certain states?

Is this just them trying to get the jump on their competitors or what?

It's always that way.

They all have teams of pollsters working on it, analyzing what's been counted and what is still to count. Obviously that can lead to some calling a state while others aren't ready to call it. The campaigns have their own teams as well. So while a network might call a race, that doesn't mean the campaigns have to accept that call.

Official certification by the states takes a few days or even weeks, if there are still small numbers of uncounted mail-in votes or whatever (e.g. sometimes military votes are given extra time to be received).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 05, 2020, 09:38:55 AM
Isn't that what we call the Tallyman?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 10:02:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 06:13:45 AM
Morning all.

There are now armed Trump protestors outside an Arizona count centre. Isn't this simply wonderful? USA! USA! USA!
They aren't protestors

They have nothing legitimate to protest about

They're fascists trying to terrify those who are trying to carry out democracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
What's this shít about news networks "calling it" in certain states?

Is this just them trying to get the jump on their competitors or what?

Foxnews have gone way out on a limb calling Arizona the night before last!! Polls are tightening in Trump's favour and they're actually confident about catching Biden there. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

Georgia looks like it could be a recount and Pennsylvania is looking like Biden unless Trump can get a few thousand ballots thrown out!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 05, 2020, 10:50:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 12:56:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2020, 10:17:12 PM
Georgia very much in play again for Biden. About 400k still to be counted, Trump's lead down to 68k.

The Atlanta counties have some votes to be counted and an lot more people there than some of the other counties. Some of the Atlanta counties are 80%+ for Biden, hence the he is slight favourite to win Georgia.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 12:23:33 AM
Kayleigh McEnany on Fox news now, the very definition of a blonde bimbo.

Is she related to Banty?
Kayleigh's dad is a roofer by trade, no relation to Seamus who's a spoofer by trade.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 11:09:15 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
What's this shít about news networks "calling it" in certain states?

Is this just them trying to get the jump on their competitors or what?

Waiting days or weeks for the officiant certification isn't good for ratings. On the night calls with dramatic war like music and graphics is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
What's this shít about news networks "calling it" in certain states?

Is this just them trying to get the jump on their competitors or what?

Foxnews have gone way out on a limb calling Arizona the night before last!! Polls are tightening in Trump's favour and they're actually confident about catching Biden there. It will be interesting to see how it goes.


On the face of it, most counties in Arizona seem to still have some votes to count, so a big change in proportion doesn't seem as likely as elsewhere. I suppose Trump could win, if everything went right for him.

As for calling it, there comes a time when the result is obvious, even if there are a few % of votes still to be counted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 05, 2020, 11:33:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
What's this shít about news networks "calling it" in certain states?

Is this just them trying to get the jump on their competitors or what?

No- some claims it impacts turnout

For example, the Republicans would claim that Florida should have been called for them early (and it wasn't)

If it had gotten called, and the polls were still open in AZ and NV, then that encouraging sign would help drive their supporters to the polls in greater numbers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 05, 2020, 11:33:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
What's this shít about news networks "calling it" in certain states?

Is this just them trying to get the jump on their competitors or what?

No- some claims it impacts turnout

For example, the Republicans would claim that Florida should have been called for them early (and it wasn't)

If it had gotten called, and the polls were still open in AZ and NV, then that encouraging sign would help drive their supporters to the polls in greater numbers

The Brits don't get much right but their moratorium on reporting polls and the likes on election day is right as fake news being reported could sway the less vigourous voter from going to vote.

Think theres also a moratorium in the south too IIRC.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 11:54:55 AM
Its a sensitive issue when you're voting across 4 (or technically 6) time zones. Folks out west can see how states in the east have voted before even going to the polls themselves!
In reality they should have to wait until hawaii have closed their polls, but that will never happen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 05, 2020, 11:58:14 AM
That Paula White s the quare girl. That footage of her is doing Trump a lot of good. He did after all see fit to appoint her. I know some want 4 more years of this batshit but come on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 12:01:46 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 12:23:33 AM
Kayleigh McEnany on Fox news now, the very definition of a blonde bimbo.
Don't think that sort of language helps, there's more than enough about her horrible politics and her horriible, arrogant, manner to ridicule

That said, Republicans really do have an almost creepy fetish for pushing women who look like McEnany and have her horrible manner out front and centre

Quote from: whitey on November 05, 2020, 12:35:42 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 12:23:33 AM
Kayleigh McEnany on Fox news now, the very definition of a blonde bimbo.

Georgetown , Oxford University and Harvard Law

She must have a few brain cells to rub together
Oh I've no doubt she's not stupid

But she's a peddler of a fantasy world of make believe that is designed to serve fascist kleptocracy

She does not believe any of the nonsense she spouts and is merely doing it out of a deep hatred of the poor and minorities, a total lack of principle and moral fibre, and shameless careerism and notoriety

If she did believe any of the nonsense she spouts, well, that would certainly make her thick as shit

But she doesn't believe it, does she
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Corkscrew on November 05, 2020, 12:03:05 PM
This could drag out. This will come down to the non-radioactive isotope watermark on official ballots. Rest will be weeded out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 12:04:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 05, 2020, 11:58:14 AM
That Paula White s the quare girl. That footage of her is doing Trump a lot of good. He did after all see fit to appoint her. I know some want 4 more years of this batshit but come on
Paula White is the true essence of Trumpism

It really is a cult

It's like ISIS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 12:11:06 PM
Nobody is really mentioning it but is there a chance these legal challenges could affect things in Pennsylvania or Georgia??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 12:21:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 12:11:06 PM
Nobody is really mentioning it but is there a chance these legal challenges could affect things in Pennsylvania or Georgia??

Unlikely from what I've read.

One might get past one judge, but then there'll be an appeal and so on and on.

Apparently Trump himself is less than impressed with the challenges, questioning why now, AFTER the election.

He must have missed all the losses last week I guess.

All that said, you never know what one of these Trump judges might do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 12:29:19 PM
Apparently 25K more votes left in GA, with Trump 18K ahead.

Hard to see Biden getting enough of those to win.

This f**ker's going to come down to PA.

Anyone else getting nervous about Trump eking out another razor-thin series of victories across multiple states like he did four years ago?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: delgany on November 05, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 12:29:19 PM
Apparently 25K more votes left in GA, with Trump 18K ahead.

Hard to see Biden getting enough of those to win.

This f**ker's going to come down to PA.

Anyone else getting nervous about Trump eking out another razor-thin series of victories across multiple states like he did four years ago?

Georgia is crucial . 60K votes for 3rd candidate- Jorgensen could be the difference for Trump hanging on but Atlanta could get Biden over the line
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 05, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
Biden us 1/5 to win on Oddschecker, that looks fairly solid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on November 05, 2020, 12:57:01 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 05, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
Biden us 1/5 to win on Oddschecker, that looks fairly solid.

1/7 in places or tighter but bear in mind when I gave up on it and went to bed on Tuesday night Trump was in a similar spot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Maiden1 on November 05, 2020, 01:00:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 05, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
Biden us 1/5 to win on Oddschecker, that looks fairly solid.
Saw that.  Surely has to be as close to a cert as can get.  Half tempted to cash all my imaginary ISAs and stick everything on Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 05, 2020, 01:08:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 12:29:19 PM
Apparently 25K more votes left in GA, with Trump 18K ahead.

Hard to see Biden getting enough of those to win.

This f**ker's going to come down to PA.

Anyone else getting nervous about Trump eking out another razor-thin series of victories across multiple states like he did four years ago?


NYT tracker I'm looking at right now has Trump less than 20k in the lead with 96% of 4.9m votes counted - so there should be about 200k left? Though I appreciate that might have been as of an hour or two ago.

If the Republican senator there drops beneath 50% of votes (looks possible) then there's a run off in January for his seat (might that be the extra seat the Dems need?).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: An Watcher on November 05, 2020, 01:08:43 PM
Here, he just needs Nevada and Arizona, forget about the rest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 01:09:41 PM
Bear in mind you're talking about multiple neck and neck two horse races where one horse could win each by a nose. That's what Trump did in 2016.
Biden could do it too, but Trump is the one defending the lead amidst diminishing numbers of votes in GA and PA. If he holds on in those, and then sneaks past in AZ, its done.
Those are crazy odds on Biden given how tight it currently is, although they are obviously following the money.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 01:10:41 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 05, 2020, 01:08:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 12:29:19 PM
Apparently 25K more votes left in GA, with Trump 18K ahead.

Hard to see Biden getting enough of those to win.

This f**ker's going to come down to PA.

Anyone else getting nervous about Trump eking out another razor-thin series of victories across multiple states like he did four years ago?


NYT tracker I'm looking at right now has Trump less than 20k in the lead with 96% of 4.9m votes counted - so there should be about 200k left? Though I appreciate that might have been as of an hour or two ago.

If the Republican senator there drops beneath 50% of votes (looks possible) then there's a run off in January for his seat (might that be the extra seat the Dems need?).

I'm quoting the 538 tracker, from their post at 7:18am EST.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/2020-election-results-coverage/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/2020-election-results-coverage/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 05, 2020, 01:11:16 PM
Quote from: shark on November 05, 2020, 08:00:02 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 07:46:26 AM
Race tightening in Arizona with every batch, state definitely still in play. CNN reports that if the final votes have the same proportion as recent batches then Trump will overtake Biden. But no guarantee of that of course.

I'm still sceptical about Nevada predictions.

I see that if AZ and Nevada turn to Trump and Biden overtakes in Georgia (on course but also far from guaranteed), with everything else staying the same, then it would be 269-269 !

Big If on Trump holding PA. It doesn't look likely he will.
Still too tight to call. Biden's trajectory is good, but nobody knows how many votes are left, so not impossible that he falls short.

Same for Georgia. Will there be enough votes left for him to pass Trump? Trajectory looks great, but just not sure if there's enough uncounted vote out there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 05, 2020, 01:13:03 PM
Do think he will take GA and PA. Hope he takes the lot to copperfasten it and give Trump and co. no avenue for appeals.
Are WI and Michigan in the bag for sure?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 01:13:07 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 05, 2020, 01:08:43 PM
Here, he just needs Nevada and Arizona, forget about the rest

Don't, as Trump is making gains in AZ. It's not a given yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 05, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
Either way, the thing is likely to drag on for weeks as it did in 2000. It would be torture to have money wagered on that sort of slow bike race.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 05, 2020, 01:17:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 01:09:41 PM
Bear in mind you're talking about multiple neck and neck two horse races where one horse could win each by a nose. That's what Trump did in 2016.
Biden could do it too, but Trump is the one defending the lead amidst diminishing numbers of votes in GA and PA. If he holds on in those, and then sneaks past in AZ, its done.
Those are crazy odds on Biden given how tight it currently is, although they are obviously following the money.
Absolutely agree.  There's still a pathway for Trump to win. Nobody can call with certainty any of PA, AZ, Nevada, Georgia. The next batch of votes do not have to correlate with the previous batch.
They could all go red, all blue, or a mix.

I think it's right that Biden is favourite, but not by as much. But things can change quickly as the next batches come in!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: An Watcher on November 05, 2020, 01:18:12 PM
Yeah but as someone said its an uphill struggle to bring it back to him. Trump in Arizona that is.
Any idea if or when that and nevada will be announced. Someone said nevada will be announced at 5 however not sure if that's the final count or just an update. Hard keeping track??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 05, 2020, 01:21:20 PM
Is a tie in the senate out of the question?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 05, 2020, 01:22:59 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 01:17:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 01:09:41 PM
Bear in mind you're talking about multiple neck and neck two horse races where one horse could win each by a nose. That's what Trump did in 2016.
Biden could do it too, but Trump is the one defending the lead amidst diminishing numbers of votes in GA and PA. If he holds on in those, and then sneaks past in AZ, its done.
Those are crazy odds on Biden given how tight it currently is, although they are obviously following the money.
Absolutely agree.  There's still a pathway for Trump to win. Nobody can call with certainty any of PA, AZ, Nevada, Georgia. The next batch of votes do not have to correlate with the previous batch.
They could all go red, all blue, or a mix.

I think it's right that Biden is favourite, but not by as much. But things can change quickly as the next batches come in!
Would you give me odds of 4/6?  even 1/2?   My last offer I'll take 1/4?     
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 05, 2020, 01:23:16 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 05, 2020, 01:18:12 PM
Yeah but as someone said its an uphill struggle to bring it back to him. Trump in Arizona that is.
Any idea if or when that and nevada will be announced. Someone said nevada will be announced at 5 however not sure if that's the final count or just an update. Hard keeping track??
Pretty sure that CNN said Nevada aren't going to release any more batches, they're just going to release them all at the same time when counting is done. No idea when that's expected, would guess much later today given their west coast location
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 05, 2020, 01:30:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 05, 2020, 01:22:59 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 01:17:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 01:09:41 PM
Bear in mind you're talking about multiple neck and neck two horse races where one horse could win each by a nose. That's what Trump did in 2016.
Biden could do it too, but Trump is the one defending the lead amidst diminishing numbers of votes in GA and PA. If he holds on in those, and then sneaks past in AZ, its done.
Those are crazy odds on Biden given how tight it currently is, although they are obviously following the money.
Absolutely agree.  There's still a pathway for Trump to win. Nobody can call with certainty any of PA, AZ, Nevada, Georgia. The next batch of votes do not have to correlate with the previous batch.
They could all go red, all blue, or a mix.

I think it's right that Biden is favourite, but not by as much. But things can change quickly as the next batches come in!
Would you give me odds of 4/6?  even 1/2?   My last offer I'll take 1/4?     
🤔
As I said, I think it's right that Biden is favourite, so why would I bet against him if I think I'd lose the bet, regardless of the odds?!
And if I did want to bet on Trump (which I don't) I could find better odds than that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 05, 2020, 01:31:04 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 01:23:16 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 05, 2020, 01:18:12 PM
Yeah but as someone said its an uphill struggle to bring it back to him. Trump in Arizona that is.
Any idea if or when that and nevada will be announced. Someone said nevada will be announced at 5 however not sure if that's the final count or just an update. Hard keeping track??
Pretty sure that CNN said Nevada aren't going to release any more batches, they're just going to release them all at the same time when counting is done. No idea when that's expected, would guess much later today given their west coast location

1200hrs ET apparently
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 05, 2020, 01:35:45 PM
Looks only a matter of  minutes/hours before Biden takes Georgia and the remaining 4 states are all falling his way. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 01:52:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 12:29:19 PM
Apparently 25K more votes left in GA, with Trump 18K ahead.

Hard to see Biden getting enough of those to win.

This f**ker's going to come down to PA.

Anyone else getting nervous about Trump eking out another razor-thin series of victories across multiple states like he did four years ago?
My understanding is that there is a confusion between the amount of votes that are left to be counted and the amount that still have to be reported

From what I can make out, 25k votes remain to be actually counted, but there are a further 45k votes that have been counted but not yet added to the results

I'm cautiously optimistic that that is enough road for Biden to move ahead

However I would not put anything past the Republicans, particularly in Georgia which is one of the most insidious voter suppression regimes in the US
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 02:00:43 PM
NV..
Same numbers as yesterday. What the hell?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 02:03:01 PM
https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1324346056499486720

After saying earlier this AM there are fewer than 25K absentee ballots left, Georgia's secretary of state has corrected the number to the same count the data shows: About 50K left. That doesn't include provisionals, military and overseas ballots & ballots that are cured. #gapol

CNN are reporting 50k left as well

My understanding is that ballots with "mistakes" can be "cured" in Georgia until 4pm tomorrow

I don't know what the process for that is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 05, 2020, 02:03:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 01:52:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 12:29:19 PM
Apparently 25K more votes left in GA, with Trump 18K ahead.

Hard to see Biden getting enough of those to win.

This f**ker's going to come down to PA.

Anyone else getting nervous about Trump eking out another razor-thin series of victories across multiple states like he did four years ago?
My understanding is that there is a confusion between the amount of votes that are left to be counted and the amount that still have to be reported

From what I can make out, 25k votes remain to be actually counted, but there are a further 45k votes that have been counted but not yet added to the results

I'm cautiously optimistic that that is enough road for Biden to move ahead

However I would not put anything past the Republicans, particularly in Georgia which is one of the most insidious voter suppression regimes in the US

BBC now reporting that Georgia has 50k votes left to be counted (no idea on what's to be reported).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 05, 2020, 02:05:40 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 02:00:43 PM
NV..
Same numbers as yesterday. What the hell?

They are counting but not doing interim updates. Just have to wait on the final result. Postal votes take longer to count
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 05, 2020, 02:37:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 02:03:01 PM
https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1324346056499486720

After saying earlier this AM there are fewer than 25K absentee ballots left, Georgia's secretary of state has corrected the number to the same count the data shows: About 50K left. That doesn't include provisionals, military and overseas ballots & ballots that are cured. #gapol

CNN are reporting 50k left as well

My understanding is that ballots with "mistakes" can be "cured" in Georgia until 4pm tomorrow

I don't know what the process for that is

Democrat volunteers do phone banks.  They call the voters whose ballots need curing, and try to have them come correct them.  This would be possible (in some states) for things like a mistakenly spelled address, or (e.g.) someone put down their date of birth for the voting date.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 03:04:24 PM
What. An. Election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 03:36:46 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 03:04:24 PM
What. An. Election.

Make it stop!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 03:49:00 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 05, 2020, 02:03:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 01:52:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 12:29:19 PM
Apparently 25K more votes left in GA, with Trump 18K ahead.

Hard to see Biden getting enough of those to win.

This f**ker's going to come down to PA.

Anyone else getting nervous about Trump eking out another razor-thin series of victories across multiple states like he did four years ago?
My understanding is that there is a confusion between the amount of votes that are left to be counted and the amount that still have to be reported

From what I can make out, 25k votes remain to be actually counted, but there are a further 45k votes that have been counted but not yet added to the results

I'm cautiously optimistic that that is enough road for Biden to move ahead

However I would not put anything past the Republicans, particularly in Georgia which is one of the most insidious voter suppression regimes in the US

BBC now reporting that Georgia has 50k votes left to be counted (no idea on what's to be reported).

NY Times stated 61,367. Biden would need two thirds of these to pass out the Bollix. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 03:54:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 03:36:46 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 03:04:24 PM
What. An. Election.

Make it stop!

Reminds me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4_fwzC4PNI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 05, 2020, 05:02:42 PM
Down to a 120k gap in PA, but only 35k votes left in Pittsburgh's county, which are just subject to investigation.

Georgia gap down to 14k, but 98% now in.

Nailbiter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 05:07:27 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 03:54:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 03:36:46 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 03:04:24 PM
What. An. Election.

Make it stop!

Reminds me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4_fwzC4PNI

Awesome.

I still can't figure out how anyone knows what the hell is going in that trading floor!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 05, 2020, 05:11:15 PM
Nevada has started drip-feeding. Biden's lead up from 7k to 12k. estimated 87% votes in
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 05, 2020, 05:19:14 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 05:02:42 PM
Down to a 120k gap in PA, but only 35k votes left in Pittsburgh's county, which are just subject to investigation.

Georgia gap down to 14k, but 98% now in.

Nailbiter.

Trump desperately hoping the finishing line comes before the fuel runs out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on November 05, 2020, 05:34:04 PM
Count the votes!' and Stop the count!'  says Trump supporters.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1324371145735491586?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 05:02:42 PM
Down to a 120k gap in PA, but only 35k votes left in Pittsburgh's county, which are just subject to investigation.

Georgia gap down to 14k, but 98% now in.

Nailbiter.

2% of Georgia is almost 100,000. so Biden would need 60% of the vote. Some of the Atlanta suburbs have a bit to go and he has been getting that percentage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2020, 05:47:27 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmE8MSoXgAA_cVJ?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 05:51:38 PM
Looks like Biden will take PA pretty handily in the end. Everything else moot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 05, 2020, 06:01:27 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2020, 05:47:27 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmE8MSoXgAA_cVJ?format=png&name=small)

I guess that would be 67 million or so votes to none. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 05:02:42 PM
Down to a 120k gap in PA, but only 35k votes left in Pittsburgh's county, which are just subject to investigation.

Georgia gap down to 14k, but 98% now in.

Nailbiter.

2% of Georgia is almost 100,000. so Biden would need 60% of the vote. Some of the Atlanta suburbs have a bit to go and he has been getting that percentage.

Of the 61,367 votes that were announced to be outstanding a couple of hours back (I know a small amount of votes have come in since that), we have a detailed knowledge of which counties they come from and how much from each county

If the mail in ballots broke at the exact same rates that the current total votes in the relevant counties are at, Biden would get 34,294 out of those 61,367

That would not be enough

He has to hit 39,756 out of 61,367 - I make that 64.7%

But mail in ballots are breaking disproportionately for Biden compared to the total vote

So it's doable

Not certain, but doable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 06:17:03 PM
Had a few minutes to spare at lunch, so I looked at the Arizona numbers here from late last night: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/04/latest-batch-trump-gets-share-votes-he-would-need-reclaim-arizona-next-rounds-present-challenges/6169183002/ (https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/04/latest-batch-trump-gets-share-votes-he-would-need-reclaim-arizona-next-rounds-present-challenges/6169183002/)

Did a few calculations based on the votes reported to date and those left in each county.

Came up with 228K more for Biden, 216K more for Trump, for total of 444K.

Now the reported numbers have Biden getting 52% in Maricopa county, which apparently the Trump campaign thinks is not going to hold with these later votes, so probably a waste of ten minutes on my part.

But if the percentages did hold in each county, Biden would have it, albeit fairly narrowly.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 06:25:35 PM
What are the AP, but especially, Fox News, going to do later on if things, as it looks like they will, progress to the point that Biden has Nevada?

If they call Nevada and don't retract Arizona, which they haven't yet, then that will be that, according to their decision team.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 06:35:21 PM
Gap now 13,540 votes in Geogria. The secretary of state said that about 50,000
But if 10,000 votes only reduced the gap by 500, then 50,000 votes might only reduce the lead by 5 x 500 = 2500.
So the detail of the counties would be very much needed to make any estimate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 06:45:50 PM
County Registrar in Vegas getting a little concerned about the safety of his family and staff.

https://twitter.com/eliza_relman/status/1324417368580304897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1324417368580304897%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ffivethirtyeight.com%2Flive-blog%2F2020-election-results-coverage%2F (https://twitter.com/eliza_relman/status/1324417368580304897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1324417368580304897%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ffivethirtyeight.com%2Flive-blog%2F2020-election-results-coverage%2F)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 05, 2020, 06:46:41 PM
Nate Silver:

This sort of data is a big problem for Trump in Georgia. Even in a place like Bryan County, where Trump won by 43 points in 2016, Biden is actually winning by 15 in mail votes that were processed today. Those mail votes are just coming in very blue, sometimes even in red counties.

Jon Ralston:

Biden is up by 11.4K right now in NV.

Dems are going to win these mail ballots coming in from Election Day and yesterday -- 63K. And they should win them decisively. That leaves 60K provisionals, which have been evenly split.

I see no path left for Trump here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 06:51:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 06:35:21 PM
Gap now 13,540 votes in Geogria. The secretary of state said that about 50,000
But if 10,000 votes only reduced the gap by 500, then 50,000 votes might only reduce the lead by 5 x 500 = 2500.
So the detail of the counties would be very much needed to make any estimate.
When it was announced a few hours ago that 61,367 votes were outstanding, the gap was 18,146

Now the gap is 13,540 with, it seems, around 50k votes left

If that's so, Biden is running ahead of where he needs to be

This tweet gives the precise breakdown of where the 61,367 votes come from:

https://twitter.com/stphnfwlr/status/1324363353914036224

I make it that about 45k of the 61k come from Biden supporting counties, with around 15-16k coming from Trump supporting counties

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:00:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 06:25:35 PM
What are the AP, but especially, Fox News, going to do later on if things, as it looks like they will, progress to the point that Biden has Nevada?

If they call Nevada and don't retract Arizona, which they haven't yet, then that will be that, according to their decision team.

Was wondering this myself. Theres no way CNN will want to haemorrhage viewers to the network that has called the election, would it prompt them to call Arizona blue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 07:00:18 PM
500,000 to be counted in PA, and a gap of 114,000. So Biden would need to get 62%+ of these, if my sums are right. Very doable to get 63% on mail ins mostly in the cities.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 07:00:18 PM
500,000 to be counted in PA, and a gap of 114,000. So Biden would need to get 62%+ of these, if my sums are right. Very doable to get 63% on mail ins mostly in the cities.

Hes hit 75% over the last 24hours. And pennsylvania have said they could finish today. This could be over tonight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:00:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 06:25:35 PM
What are the AP, but especially, Fox News, going to do later on if things, as it looks like they will, progress to the point that Biden has Nevada?

If they call Nevada and don't retract Arizona, which they haven't yet, then that will be that, according to their decision team.

Was wondering this myself. Theres no way CNN will want to haemorrhage viewers to the network that has called the election, would it prompt them to call Arizona blue?

Can't see CNN jumping the gun. Why bother? If Fox calls it, that in itself will be news for CNN to cover anyway.

Its interesting though that the AP and Fox have not retracted the AZ call yet. AP says they're going to do what the facts force them to do. But I guess a retraction is probably an even bigger deal than a call in the first place, so they want to be sure.
https://apnews.com/article/ap-explains-arizona-joe-biden-bb16f91b04456b2513f40436248eb62d (https://apnews.com/article/ap-explains-arizona-joe-biden-bb16f91b04456b2513f40436248eb62d)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 05, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 05:02:42 PM
Down to a 120k gap in PA, but only 35k votes left in Pittsburgh's county, which are just subject to investigation.

Georgia gap down to 14k, but 98% now in.

Nailbiter.

2% of Georgia is almost 100,000. so Biden would need 60% of the vote. Some of the Atlanta suburbs have a bit to go and he has been getting that percentage.

Of the 61,367 votes that were announced to be outstanding a couple of hours back (I know a small amount of votes have come in since that), we have a detailed knowledge of which counties they come from and how much from each county

If the mail in ballots broke at the exact same rates that the current total votes in the relevant counties are at, Biden would get 34,294 out of those 61,367

That would not be enough

He has to hit 39,756 out of 61,367 - I make that 64.7%

But mail in ballots are breaking disproportionately for Biden compared to the total vote

So it's doable

Not certain, but doable

I have a weird feeling that one state is going to be very narrowly Biden and will flip to Trump on military votes that come in next week. That said I've not idea how many military votes to expect - but Georgia seems like a place that would have a good few.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:20:03 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 05, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 05:02:42 PM
Down to a 120k gap in PA, but only 35k votes left in Pittsburgh's county, which are just subject to investigation.

Georgia gap down to 14k, but 98% now in.

Nailbiter.

2% of Georgia is almost 100,000. so Biden would need 60% of the vote. Some of the Atlanta suburbs have a bit to go and he has been getting that percentage.

Of the 61,367 votes that were announced to be outstanding a couple of hours back (I know a small amount of votes have come in since that), we have a detailed knowledge of which counties they come from and how much from each county

If the mail in ballots broke at the exact same rates that the current total votes in the relevant counties are at, Biden would get 34,294 out of those 61,367

That would not be enough

He has to hit 39,756 out of 61,367 - I make that 64.7%

But mail in ballots are breaking disproportionately for Biden compared to the total vote

So it's doable

Not certain, but doable

I have a weird feeling that one state is going to be very narrowly Biden and will flip to Trump on military votes that come in next week. That said I've not idea how many military votes to expect - but Georgia seems like a place that would have a good few.

About 5000 apparently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 07:37:26 PM
Also 2 thousand and something provisional ballots in Georgia which haven't been counted yet - these are separate to the remaining mail ballots
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 07:42:26 PM
First time I've heard this;

John McCain's concession speech after losing out to Obama;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A)

The man had more principle in his toe nail than the current gombeen in the whitehouse.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 07:49:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 07:37:26 PM
Also 2 thousand and something provisional ballots in Georgia which haven't been counted yet - these are separate to the remaining mail ballots

So does Trump want these counted now or stop the counting?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:50:34 PM
Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2020, 07:53:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 07:42:26 PM
First time I've heard this;

John McCain's concession speech after losing out to Obama;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A)

The man had more principle in his toe nail than the current gombeen in the whitehouse.

I remember that.

Palin was all set to follow him out with a Trump-type speech of her own, but he told her to f**k away off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 07:53:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 07:42:26 PM
First time I've heard this;

John McCain's concession speech after losing out to Obama;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A)

The man had more principle in his toe nail than the current gombeen in the whitehouse.

I remember that.

Palin was all set to follow him out with a Trump-type speech of her own, but he told her to f**k away off.

I remember that. He wouldn't let her speak as he recognised that it was Obamas moment and didn't want her to overshadow it. He was a great man.
Was watching the sky documentary on him recently. And he used to say when people from Arizona accused him of being a blow in candidate he would apologise and say the place he has spent a longer time than anywhere else was Hanoi. It would shut them up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 05, 2020, 07:58:30 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on November 05, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 05, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 05, 2020, 05:02:42 PM
Down to a 120k gap in PA, but only 35k votes left in Pittsburgh's county, which are just subject to investigation.

Georgia gap down to 14k, but 98% now in.

Nailbiter.

2% of Georgia is almost 100,000. so Biden would need 60% of the vote. Some of the Atlanta suburbs have a bit to go and he has been getting that percentage.

Of the 61,367 votes that were announced to be outstanding a couple of hours back (I know a small amount of votes have come in since that), we have a detailed knowledge of which counties they come from and how much from each county

If the mail in ballots broke at the exact same rates that the current total votes in the relevant counties are at, Biden would get 34,294 out of those 61,367

That would not be enough

He has to hit 39,756 out of 61,367 - I make that 64.7%

But mail in ballots are breaking disproportionately for Biden compared to the total vote

So it's doable

Not certain, but doable

I have a weird feeling that one state is going to be very narrowly Biden and will flip to Trump on military votes that come in next week. That said I've not idea how many military votes to expect - but Georgia seems like a place that would have a good few.

Couldn't see him getting a majority of the "suckers and losers" vote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Newbridge Exile on November 05, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 07:53:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 07:42:26 PM
First time I've heard this;

John McCain's concession speech after losing out to Obama;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A)

The man had more principle in his toe nail than the current gombeen in the whitehouse.

I remember that.

Palin was all set to follow him out with a Trump-type speech of her own, but he told her to f**k away off.

I remember that. He wouldn't let her speak as he recognised that it was Obamas moment and didn't want her to overshadow it. He was a great man.
Was watching the sky documentary on him recently. And he used to say when people from Arizona accused him of being a blow in candidate he would apologise and say the place he has spent a longer time than anywhere else was Hanoi. It would shut them up.
I never saw this before either , he was a man of great integrity,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on November 05, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 07:53:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 07:42:26 PM
First time I've heard this;

John McCain's concession speech after losing out to Obama;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A)

The man had more principle in his toe nail than the current gombeen in the whitehouse.

I remember that.

Palin was all set to follow him out with a Trump-type speech of her own, but he told her to f**k away off.

I remember that. He wouldn't let her speak as he recognised that it was Obamas moment and didn't want her to overshadow it. He was a great man.
Was watching the sky documentary on him recently. And he used to say when people from Arizona accused him of being a blow in candidate he would apologise and say the place he has spent a longer time than anywhere else was Hanoi. It would shut them up.
I never saw this before either , he was a man of great integrity,

and of course both Obama and Bush spoke at his funeral and Trump was not invited.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: JoG2 on November 05, 2020, 08:52:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on November 05, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 05, 2020, 07:53:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2020, 07:42:26 PM
First time I've heard this;

John McCain's concession speech after losing out to Obama;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8yoNkcl1A)

The man had more principle in his toe nail than the current gombeen in the whitehouse.

I remember that.

Palin was all set to follow him out with a Trump-type speech of her own, but he told her to f**k away off.

I remember that. He wouldn't let her speak as he recognised that it was Obamas moment and didn't want her to overshadow it. He was a great man.
Was watching the sky documentary on him recently. And he used to say when people from Arizona accused him of being a blow in candidate he would apologise and say the place he has spent a longer time than anywhere else was Hanoi. It would shut them up.
I never saw this before either , he was a man of great integrity,

and of course both Obama and Bush spoke at his funeral and Trump was not invited.

There's was footage of Trump in an interview on TV the other night saying there was no way McCain was a war hero as he had been captured. Soldiers who got captured were not war heroes in his eyes he repeated. Nasty doesn't come close to describing Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 09:19:33 PM
Less than 100k behind in PA now!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 09:25:21 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 09:19:33 PM
Less than 100k behind in PA now!

97,908 votes. to be precise.

edit now  Trump is currently up by 97,224, from 1,830 additional votes. So that 1830 provided a 684 surplus for Biden, implying 68.7% going to Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 09:56:19 PM
Down to 90,542.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 05, 2020, 10:01:02 PM
Trump only up by 9k in Georgia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: rory on November 05, 2020, 10:31:38 PM
If the final electoral college numbers are close, faithless electors could come in to play.

Clinton lost 5 in 2016 and Trump lost 2.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 09:56:19 PM
Down to 90,542.

326k votes to be counted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 05, 2020, 11:02:55 PM
Biden now within 10,000 votes of Trump in Georgia.

Nevada's Secretary of State says there are approximately 190,150 ballots left to count, 90% of which are from heavily-Democratic Clark County
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Square Ball on November 05, 2020, 11:03:18 PM
Due to make a statement now from the Whitehouse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: pbat on November 05, 2020, 11:04:55 PM
This should be fun.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 11:05:35 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on November 05, 2020, 11:03:18 PM
Due to make a statement now from the Whitehouse
Car crash TV viewing on the way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 05, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on November 05, 2020, 11:03:18 PM
Due to make a statement now from the Whitehouse

Was gonna head to bed but no way am I missing this!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 11:09:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 09:56:19 PM
Down to 90,542.

326k votes to be counted.

78,314 shortfall requires 63% of that 326K which should be manageable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on November 05, 2020, 11:14:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 05, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on November 05, 2020, 11:03:18 PM
Due to make a statement now from the Whitehouse

Was gonna head to bed but no way am I missing this!

Was just getting up to go myself and thought the exact same 😂
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2020, 11:14:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 05, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on November 05, 2020, 11:03:18 PM
Due to make a statement now from the Whitehouse

Was gonna head to bed but no way am I missing this!

Was just getting up to go myself and thought the exact same 😂

Same!

Maybe he'll concede.  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 05, 2020, 11:39:56 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2020, 11:14:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 05, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on November 05, 2020, 11:03:18 PM
Due to make a statement now from the Whitehouse

Was gonna head to bed but no way am I missing this!

Was just getting up to go myself and thought the exact same 😂

Same!

Maybe he'll concede.  ::)

Yeah and monkeys might fly out of my butt!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 11:47:11 PM
Strap yourselves in folks!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 11:48:30 PM
Trump not taking this defeat very well is he  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 05, 2020, 11:48:34 PM
He's not planning to leave anytime soon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 05, 2020, 11:53:10 PM
MSNBC called Trump on his BS and closed him down almost immediately. CNN and Fox still showing his show.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 11:54:31 PM
Pure popcorn stuff!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 05, 2020, 11:57:03 PM
Please take questions!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on November 05, 2020, 11:57:10 PM
Trump totally embarrassing himself here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2020, 11:57:32 PM
I don't know what to say to any of it. The man is just a massive baby.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 05, 2020, 11:58:14 PM
Is he gonna ramble from now till January?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 11:58:58 PM
This is wild. Its like the Golden Cleric speech from Father Ted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2020, 12:09:10 AM
Trump lead in Georgia down to 3,600 votes. 25,687 remaining.

Speaking of Georgia, the two senate races are going to January runoffs! We're not beaten in the Senate just yet!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 12:13:13 AM
Rick santorum looks mortified.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 12:13:55 AM
How did a Fox run with that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 12:16:10 AM
Santorum looks like someone took his soul.

Every major non cable network pulled their feeds. Pulling the feed from a presidential press conference ffs. Has that EVER happened before?

Cue new accusations of corrupt media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 12:22:22 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 12:16:10 AM
Santorum looks like someone took his soul.

Every major non cable network pulled their feeds. Pulling the feed from a presidential press conference ffs. Has that EVER happened before?

Cue new accusations of corrupt media.

I've never seen it. Certainly never from a presidential candidate who has been dark in the 48hours after an election.

In years to come you'll remember where you were when you watched that. We are watching history.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 12:24:24 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 05, 2020, 11:58:58 PM
This is wild. Its like the Golden Cleric speech from Father Ted

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 12:24:33 AM
Regrettably so, yes.

Genuinely astounding stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 12:27:53 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2020, 12:09:10 AM
Trump lead in Georgia down to 3,600 votes. 25,687 remaining.

Speaking of Georgia, the two senate races are going to January runoffs! We're not beaten in the Senate just yet!

While there are a few votes to be tallied in many places, Atlanta suburb Clayon county (Biden 84%) is reporting only 95%, you'd get a 3600 margin there at those percentages, and the rest of GA will contribute a few. So could have PA and GA, which would negate any argument in Arizona.

Can Trump be declared a looney, Covid brain fog or something?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thebigfella on November 06, 2020, 12:33:04 AM
Well that escalated quickly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on November 06, 2020, 12:33:48 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/hCd3510/Em-GR4d6-WMAAX6-Ah.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LvgVwhK)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 06, 2020, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 12:22:22 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 12:16:10 AM
Santorum looks like someone took his soul.

Every major non cable network pulled their feeds. Pulling the feed from a presidential press conference ffs. Has that EVER happened before?

Cue new accusations of corrupt media.

I've never seen it. Certainly never from a presidential candidate who has been dark in the 48hours after an election.

In years to come you'll remember where you were when you watched that. We are watching history.

Just that. Simply extraordinary for an elected President, the most powerful man in the world, one who in theory at least above all others should represent and uphold democratic values and integrity, who should comport himself at all times in a dignified and statesmanlike manner, to deliver a rambling unsubstantiated diatribe like that. I'd say even the GOP will now throw him under the bus. Bit like a team manager blaming his team on TV and losing the dressing room. Maybe the zenith moment of craziness in this whole mad election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 12:47:19 AM
Arnon Mishkin, head of Fox's Decision Desk, i.e. their team that makes the calls on each state, just doubled down on calling Arizona.

He was then asked live in air about historical political contributions he's made...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 12:49:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 12:47:19 AM
Arnon Mishkin, head of Fox's Decision Desk, i.e. their team that makes the calls on each state, just doubled down on calling Arizona.

He was then asked live in air about historical political contributions he's made...

Any word of them calling PA? That was the rumour earlier.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NetNitrate on November 06, 2020, 12:54:17 AM
Crazy stuff but unfortunately he has a lot of followers who are mad and believe all this stuff. When Biden gets to 270, they could unleash a lot of violence. And he's egging them on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 12:54:27 AM
NADA, but I switched quite quickly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: balladmaker on November 06, 2020, 12:55:04 AM
It's time someone pulled Trump aside and told him the party's over.  He is a serious danger now, with gun wielding militia reportedly heading to 'Stop The Count' rallies outside count centres ... and we thought Mugabe was bad, jeez!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 12:57:54 AM
They won't do it until it flips blue.

Arizona is not looking great there's a fair chance Fox miscalculated the mail in vote in Arizona in favour of Biden when in reality a fair chunk of Arizona mailed their votes before COVID and this could well keep trending towards the liar in chief!!

After sticking his neck on the line your man has to double down or he loses his job and credibility retracting.

If it goes for Trump that may happen anyway!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 01:07:13 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on November 06, 2020, 12:55:04 AM
It's time someone pulled Trump aside and told him the party's over.  He is a serious danger now, with gun wielding militia reportedly heading to 'Stop The Count' rallies outside count centres ... and we thought Mugabe was bad, jeez!
ffs cop on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 01:19:42 AM
The NRA have just helped things, of course, by tweeting "COME AND TAKE IT"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 01:07:13 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on November 06, 2020, 12:55:04 AM
It's time someone pulled Trump aside and told him the party's over.  He is a serious danger now, with gun wielding militia reportedly heading to 'Stop The Count' rallies outside count centres ... and we thought Mugabe was bad, jeez!
ffs cop on

Mugabe made some contribution when he was younger, whereas Trump did not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 01:42:00 AM
I think Tucker's head might explode here it's class!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 02:20:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 01:42:00 AM
I think Tucker's head might explode here it's class!!!
He's a f**king reptile

How does he sleep at night

Probably on a big wad of cash, which he gets for pushing a dystopian, fear ridden fantasy world on millions of gullible eejits, and which is all he cares about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 02:40:14 AM
I only thought Tucker was bad but Hannity is mental!!

Wants a do over in Pennsylvania!! This will be called for Biden tomorrow at some stage but if Trump/Hannity/Graham/Cruz keep stoking up these fears we're in for a rocky few days!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 02:43:33 AM
I get it now I've just watched the beginning of the Graham & Cruz 2024 campaign!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:45:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 02:40:14 AM
I only thought Tucker was bad but Hannity is mental!!

Wants a do over in Pennsylvania!! This will be called for Biden tomorrow at some stage but if Trump/Hannity/Graham/Cruz keep stoking up these fears we're in for a rocky few days!!

On what grounds do they want a do-over?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 06, 2020, 02:49:20 AM
On the grounds that they're not going to win it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 03:15:10 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 06, 2020, 02:49:20 AM
On the grounds that they're not going to win it.
The total disdain for and rejection of democracy of the US right-wing has been laid bare in all its grotesqueness

They are a rabid, existential threat and that's how they need to be viewed

Political terrorists and criminals
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2020, 04:06:11 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 03:15:10 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 06, 2020, 02:49:20 AM
On the grounds that they're not going to win it.
The total disdain for and rejection of democracy of the US right-wing has been laid bare in all its grotesqueness

They are a rabid, existential threat and that's how they need to be viewed

Political terrorists and criminals

They must be defeated. The EC has got to go. The misrepresentation in the Senate has got to end. The illegitimate justices on the Supreme Court must have liberal justices brought in on an expanded bench. This minority rule bullshit has gone on long enough. The left has bent over backwards to be nice to the right and they've thrown it back in our faces every time by lurching more and more into a fantasy world of extremist dogma that has no basis in fact. F*** them. F**** them to high heaven. They must be brought to their knees.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on November 06, 2020, 04:09:14 AM
Biden is only 1775 votes behind Trump in Georgia, he will over take him there.

Never thought I would see Biden be this close never mind win Georgia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2020, 04:13:51 AM
Of the outstanding votes in Georgia, 5000 are due in from Clayton County, a heavily Democratic area south of Atlanta.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 06, 2020, 06:35:59 AM
Biden now just 18,000 votes behind Trump in Pennsylvania. On this Trajectory Biden will win by more than 50,000 votes. Ball burst game over.
Joseph Finnegan Biden, great grandson of Lordship, in the Wee Country will be the next President of the United States of America.
Now we have to focus on making sure Trump vacates 1600 Pennsylvania Ave in January while minimizing the amount of damage he is going to do to the government of this broken and polarized country in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ziggy90 on November 06, 2020, 07:01:52 AM
I hope somebody's had the good sense to put a childproof lock over the 'Red Button'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 06, 2020, 07:09:55 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2020, 04:06:11 AMThe EC has got to go.

Nah, I don't think the EC has to go - having elections determined solely by the large population centres isn't healthy either.

But I do think each state needs to attribute college votes proportionally according to vote distribution rather than a winner takes all philosophy*.


*Note that rural states would still hold more ECs per capita than the big populous ones, so there would still be a balance against urban voter domination.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: balladmaker on November 06, 2020, 07:40:59 AM
Quote from: ziggy90 on November 06, 2020, 07:01:52 AM
I hope somebody's had the good sense to put a childproof lock over the 'Red Button'.

Post of the election  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 08:00:47 AM
Trump down to a lead of 665 votes in Georgia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on November 06, 2020, 08:49:54 AM
I've got Georgia on my mind. COTF.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 06, 2020, 08:58:58 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 08:00:47 AM
Trump down to a lead of 665 votes in Georgia.

463 now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: shark on November 06, 2020, 08:58:58 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 08:00:47 AM
Trump down to a lead of 665 votes in Georgia.

463 now

Just came in to update it! Any idea on roughly how many votes are left to count (apart from the military ones to come in)?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 09:13:27 AM
Kay Burley getting stuck into Nadhim Zahawi Business minister about Trumps actions!

If I here 'Special relationship' one more time by these pricks!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 06, 2020, 09:15:24 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: shark on November 06, 2020, 08:58:58 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 08:00:47 AM
Trump down to a lead of 665 votes in Georgia.

463 now

Just came in to update it! Any idea on roughly how many votes are left to count (apart from the military ones to come in)?

https://alex.github.io/nyt-2020-election-scraper/battleground-state-changes.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 09:18:13 AM
Quote from: shark on November 06, 2020, 09:15:24 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: shark on November 06, 2020, 08:58:58 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 08:00:47 AM
Trump down to a lead of 665 votes in Georgia.

463 now

Just came in to update it! Any idea on roughly how many votes are left to count (apart from the military ones to come in)?

https://alex.github.io/nyt-2020-election-scraper/battleground-state-changes.html

Thanks Shark.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2020, 09:24:25 AM
BNO reports Biden has taken the lead in Georgia!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armamike on November 06, 2020, 09:27:08 AM
Even by Trump's standards that latest press briefing he gave was ridiculous.  A rambling diatribe of unfounded allegations based on, at best, whispers and anecdotes, but more likely outright bullshit lies. Quite something for anyone in any position of power.  The type of stuff Saddam Hussein or more recently Putin would come out with.  He seems to think he can say and do whatever the hell he wants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2020, 09:30:44 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2020, 09:24:25 AM
BNO reports Biden has taken the lead in Georgia!

CNN reporting it now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2020, 09:32:13 AM
Ahead by 917 in Georgia
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: An Watcher on November 06, 2020, 09:47:33 AM
I assume he'll build up a small lead but then there's a load of military votes to count? Would they lean more towards Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 09:48:51 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 06, 2020, 09:47:33 AM
I assume he'll build up a small lead but then there's a load of military votes to count? Would they lean more towards Trump?

Theres about 5k of them. If Biden builds up a lead of a few thousand before then it won't matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 06, 2020, 09:49:35 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 06, 2020, 09:47:33 AM
I assume he'll build up a small lead but then there's a load of military votes to count? Would they lean more towards Trump?

Heavily towards Biden according to polls. And completed ballots % would be higher among Officers and Senior NCOs, who are even more likely to go with Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2020, 09:53:24 AM
Given Trumps remarks about veterans and also his general demeanour I would imagine that he would not be favoured by military men. They are not red-neck, sister shaggers with guns like a lot of his supporters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 06, 2020, 10:03:26 AM
I hope your right, but not sure they'd even have the chance to have seen that stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on November 06, 2020, 10:19:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2020, 09:53:24 AM
Given Trumps remarks about veterans and also his general demeanour I would imagine that he would not be favoured by military men. They are not red-neck, sister shaggers with guns like a lot of his supporters.


A lot of them sister shaggers? Thats a ridiculous comment. Plently of ordinary folk vote for Trump for numerous different reasons. Plenty of ordinary folk vote for Biden for numerous different reasons too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 10:23:20 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/05/video-claiming-detroit-ballot-fraud-debunked/%3foutputType=amp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 10:34:25 AM
It's military and overseas ballots. Got to imagine the overseas ones are heavily favoured towards Biden
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 11:15:20 AM
As I said above, Clayton County to save the day, Biden is marching through Georgia. 

In Georgia, Biden increased his lead to 1,096 over Trump after another batch of ballots came in from Clayton County, a deep blue county just south of Atlanta.

The military ballots might lean Trump, but hopefully the overseas ones will not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 06, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
A careful analysis of the Georgia mail-in ballots left to be counted  on Wed morn GMT,  showed Biden had a sure one way, one lane blacktop ride to pip Trump just before the line. That all night CNN guy did such a job taking each county apart, predicting outcomes and repeating those predictions every 15 minutes for the last 72 hours.. What else does that guy do in life? I think he goes back to his basement, he only exists for the election count and awaits  the call for the next election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 11:46:09 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 06, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
A careful analysis of the Georgia mail-in ballots left to be counted  on Wed morn GMT,  showed Biden had a sure one way, one lane blacktop ride to pip Trump just before the line. That all night CNN guy did such a job taking each county apart, predicting outcomes and repeating those predictions every 15 minutes for the last 72 hours.. What else does that guy do in life? I think he goes back to his basement, he only exists for the election count and awaits  the call for the next election.

John King? He's amazing at what he does.
If Georgia does indeed go blue as predicted, Stacey Abrams will be the reason.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2020, 11:51:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 11:46:09 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 06, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
A careful analysis of the Georgia mail-in ballots left to be counted  on Wed morn GMT,  showed Biden had a sure one way, one lane blacktop ride to pip Trump just before the line. That all night CNN guy did such a job taking each county apart, predicting outcomes and repeating those predictions every 15 minutes for the last 72 hours.. What else does that guy do in life? I think he goes back to his basement, he only exists for the election count and awaits  the call for the next election.

John King? He's amazing at what he does.
If Georgia does indeed go blue as predicted, Stacey Abrams will be the reason.

She showed what 'grassroots' politics is all about, Joe owes her big time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2020, 11:59:59 AM
So what's the likely time frame for the next state to be called? Is there an anticipated time when they think Biden will be confirmed?
What happens in regards to the legal challenges? Is that likely to drag out the confirmation or will he be confirmed as President elect anyway?

*Obviously if the voting counting continues to go Biden's way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
Will Biden, if he wins, be able to do any thing as the senate will be Republican.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 12:05:28 PM
Black voters have saved America from its white asses

Without the people who stood in line for hours on end in Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia and Atlanta, America would be waking up to a rotten dawn of at least four more years of fascism and likely many more

Instead, it wakes up to weeks and months of a defeated fascist desperately trying to stay in power like Lukashenko

But he won't, he's gone, he's out, he's finished, he's a loser





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 06, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
Will Biden, if he wins, be able to do any thing as the senate will be Republican.

He won't be able to do much that would excite those furthest to the left in his party. But that might not worry him unduly. Plus, the senate isn't Republican yet. They need to win one of the run off seats in January.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 06, 2020, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2020, 11:51:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 11:46:09 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 06, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
A careful analysis of the Georgia mail-in ballots left to be counted  on Wed morn GMT,  showed Biden had a sure one way, one lane blacktop ride to pip Trump just before the line. That all night CNN guy did such a job taking each county apart, predicting outcomes and repeating those predictions every 15 minutes for the last 72 hours.. What else does that guy do in life? I think he goes back to his basement, he only exists for the election count and awaits  the call for the next election.

John King? He's amazing at what he does.
If Georgia does indeed go blue as predicted, Stacey Abrams will be the reason.

She showed what 'grassroots' politics is all about, Joe owes her big time

Just reading an article about her. Stacey Abrams has helped register over 800K voters in Georgia over the past number of years. Wow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 12:18:51 PM
Quote from: shark on November 06, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
Will Biden, if he wins, be able to do any thing as the senate will be Republican.

He won't be able to do much that would excite those furthest to the left in his party. But that might not worry him unduly. Plus, the senate isn't Republican yet. They need to win one of the run off seats in January.
Dems could easily win both of them, they'll be highly energised after a huge breakthrough victory in the presidential election

January 5th is the date

Republicans are likely to descend into serious infighting as the fascist regime nears its end

The two Republican candidates are particularly odious pieces of shit

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: macdanger2 on November 06, 2020, 12:20:06 PM
Quote from: shark on November 06, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
Will Biden, if he wins, be able to do any thing as the senate will be Republican.

He won't be able to do much that would excite those furthest to the left in his party. But that might not worry him unduly. Plus, the senate isn't Republican yet. They need to win one of the run off seats in January.

What's the story with those run offs, how do they work?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 12:29:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 06, 2020, 12:20:06 PM
Quote from: shark on November 06, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
Will Biden, if he wins, be able to do any thing as the senate will be Republican.

He won't be able to do much that would excite those furthest to the left in his party. But that might not worry him unduly. Plus, the senate isn't Republican yet. They need to win one of the run off seats in January.

What's the story with those run offs, how do they work?

Straight head to head elections.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 06, 2020, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 12:29:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 06, 2020, 12:20:06 PM
Quote from: shark on November 06, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
Will Biden, if he wins, be able to do any thing as the senate will be Republican.

He won't be able to do much that would excite those furthest to the left in his party. But that might not worry him unduly. Plus, the senate isn't Republican yet. They need to win one of the run off seats in January.

What's the story with those run offs, how do they work?

Straight head to head elections.

Kind of similar to French presidential election. All runners bar the top two are eliminated. Everyone votes again on those two. One of them is then sure to hit 50%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 06, 2020, 12:32:23 PM
If someone registered 800,000 people to vote in 1 State you'd have to wonder just how many people in the US aren't registered??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 12:33:05 PM
Quote from: shark on November 06, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
Will Biden, if he wins, be able to do any thing as the senate will be Republican.

He won't be able to do much that would excite those furthest to the left in his party. But that might not worry him unduly. Plus, the senate isn't Republican yet. They need to win one of the run off seats in January.

It will be frustrating for sure. The endless filling of court vacancies will come to an abrupt halt in January (after a serious lame-duck session rush). The GOP will suddenly rediscover their passionate and deeply held "concern" for deficits and spending and balancing the budget.

However, IF Biden does win, the most important and over-riding issue will be that one of the worst presidents in history and one of the most corrosive and destructive influences on US society will be rejected and booted (or maybe dragged) out of the White House. He'll still hold rallies for a while, start a TV channel, and snipe and whine from the sidelines, but his actual power will be gone (and good luck to him dealing with Letitia James! ;D). Normal gridlock and inertia on the legislative and judicial front, while quietly working to undo Trump's perversion of the numerous federal agencies, both in mission and capability, will do for a few years.

Besides, dealing with COVID and overseeing the vaccines will be the primary objective for Biden for the next year or so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Corkscrew on November 06, 2020, 12:42:56 PM
Please do take the vaccine
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 12:43:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2020, 11:46:09 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 06, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
A careful analysis of the Georgia mail-in ballots left to be counted  on Wed morn GMT,  showed Biden had a sure one way, one lane blacktop ride to pip Trump just before the line. That all night CNN guy did such a job taking each county apart, predicting outcomes and repeating those predictions every 15 minutes for the last 72 hours.. What else does that guy do in life? I think he goes back to his basement, he only exists for the election count and awaits  the call for the next election.

John King? He's amazing at what he does.
If Georgia does indeed go blue as predicted, Stacey Abrams will be the reason.

Was just reading up on her.
She is some woman for one woman.
Amazing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 06, 2020, 01:35:38 PM
Steve Bannon! Maybe that belongs on the WTF thread.

We have pickup convoys full of armed men, waving flags, radicalised into believing they are doing their Gods Will whilst their spiritual directors call for beheadings of government Officials.
Maybe this belongs on the ISIS thread.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:45:26 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 06, 2020, 01:35:38 PM
Steve Bannon! Maybe that belongs on the WTF thread.

We have pickup convoys full of armed men, waving flags, radicalised into believing they are doing their Gods Will whilst their spiritual directors call for beheadings of government Officials.
Maybe this belongs on the ISIS thread.

And when some whackjob does try something, watch Bannon cry "it was only entertainment and not meant to be taken literally", just like Tucker and Alex Jones before him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:48:35 PM
I see some of Bannon's associates from the "build the wall" fundraising fraud are apparently behind the "stop the steal" bullshit that Facebook shut down.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 01:53:18 PM
YYYYYYAAAAAAAASSSSSSSS!!!!!!

Call it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 06, 2020, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:48:35 PM
I see some of Bannon's associates from the "build the wall" fundraising fraud are apparently behind the "stop the steal" bullshit that Facebook shut down.

Anybody foolish enough to contribute to Trump's crowdfunding should make sure they get back their money pro rata if any element of the legal challenge is shut down early
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 06, 2020, 01:54:20 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1324407465329479680 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1324407465329479680)

Brilliant
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2020, 01:54:42 PM
RTE and Newstalk were both talking to Bannon in the last few days. Embarrassing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 06, 2020, 01:55:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

Trump was never a republican anyway  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 06, 2020, 01:56:50 PM
Not convinced Democrats will win the Senate run offs. Surely a lot depends on the stance of the candidate that is dropping out? If they are a nutjob libertarian their vote is unlikely to go to the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 06, 2020, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 06, 2020, 01:55:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

Trump was never a republican anyway  ;D ;D ;D

;D ;D ;D

I remember that line of bullshit.  Obviously he didn't.   ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497

Assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is all correct, you're comparing that incident to the complete surrender of almost the entire US conservative movement to becoming an irrational conspiracy movement dedicated primarily to the Trump cult of personality?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on November 06, 2020, 02:02:32 PM
Looking like a comprehensive victory for Biden. It should end up 306 v 229. Thats a brave hammering for Bluffer Don if it ends like that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2020, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 06, 2020, 02:02:32 PM
Looking like a comprehensive victory for Biden. It should end up 306 v 229. Thats a brave hammering for Bluffer Don if it ends like that.

That's what he won the 2016 by. Not quite a landslide but a hell of a win. 4m ahead on popular vote too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 06, 2020, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 06, 2020, 02:02:32 PM
Looking like a comprehensive victory for Biden. It should end up 306 v 229. Thats a brave hammering for Bluffer Don if it ends like that.
306 vs 232 (need to add in Alaska)

An exact reversal of 2016
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 06, 2020, 02:13:28 PM
Even if the Democrats were to win the two Georgia run off seats, I wouldn't be expecting anything too radical to pass (court packing, statehood for DC, PR).  There would only need to be one Democrat to abstain or vote against a piece of legislation for it not to pass.  And there are Democratic senators in mostly red states who would be wary of losing their seats if seen to be voting for anything too extreme.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497

Assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is all correct, you're comparing that incident to the complete surrender of almost the entire US conservative movement to becoming an irrational conspiracy movement dedicated primarily to the Trump cult of personality?


I have been saying for years that Democrats were losing the working class vote (and everyone in here completely disagrees with me)

What did Andrew Yang say yesterday? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

The girl who cuts my hair and makes no more than $60K a year is a fvckin Trump supporter who lives in a big blue collar town.....I was blown away

Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make

She left school at 16-works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and takes one vacation per year to NH.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497

Assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is all correct, you're comparing that incident to the complete surrender of almost the entire US conservative movement to becoming an irrational conspiracy movement dedicated primarily to the Trump cult of personality?


I have been saying for years that Democrats were losing the working class vote (and everyone in here completely disagrees with me)

What did Andrew Yang say yesterday? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

The girl who cuts my hair and makes no more than $60K a year is a fvckin Trump supporter who lives in a big blue collar town.....I was blown away

Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make

She left school at 16-works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and takes one vacation per year to NH.

So what has Trump done to help her economic or social situation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497

Assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is all correct, you're comparing that incident to the complete surrender of almost the entire US conservative movement to becoming an irrational conspiracy movement dedicated primarily to the Trump cult of personality?


I have been saying for years that Democrats were losing the working class vote (and everyone in here completely disagrees with me)

What did Andrew Yang say yesterday? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

The girl who cuts my hair and makes no more than $60K a year is a fvckin Trump supporter who lives in a big blue collar town.....I was blown away

Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make

She left school at 16-works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and takes one vacation per year to NH.

Again, all of that may be true. And the Dems have work to do going forward to keep all of the disparate coalitions together as well as recover some of the lost voters. That said, I don't want the Dems to make appeals to voters who think its just fine to rip babies from their mothers and ship them across the country, or who completely reject any type of limitation on gun ownership, or who utterly reject the idea that black people have suffered real racism, including at the hands of the police or who think that climate change is fake and that we should mine and log out every last piece of land in the country.

But as a conservative, are you happy for the GOP to proceed as the Party of Trump, with all of the conspiracy theory embracing, the grievance politics, the rejection of expertise and science, the dehumanization of illegal immigrants, the hostility to LGBT people, etc.? Are you happy to live with that as long as your taxes are a wee bit lower?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:38:54 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497

Assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is all correct, you're comparing that incident to the complete surrender of almost the entire US conservative movement to becoming an irrational conspiracy movement dedicated primarily to the Trump cult of personality?


I have been saying for years that Democrats were losing the working class vote (and everyone in here completely disagrees with me)

What did Andrew Yang say yesterday? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

The girl who cuts my hair and makes no more than $60K a year is a fvckin Trump supporter who lives in a big blue collar town.....I was blown away

Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make

She left school at 16-works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and takes one vacation per year to NH.

So what has Trump done to help her economic or social situation?


That's a great question

Probably not as much as she thinks, but he did cut her taxes by about $1500

It's more nuanced than that though. She told me this story years ago about her tenants selling their food stamps. They all smoke, they all drink, they all have kids who's fathers don't work or pay child support. So when Trump cuts food stamps and she personally knows people who are flat out abusing the system, that's a huge plus for Trump in her book. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER
Ah Jesus Whitey, I thought you had fallen off a cliff. Glad your ok ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:41:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497

Assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is all correct, you're comparing that incident to the complete surrender of almost the entire US conservative movement to becoming an irrational conspiracy movement dedicated primarily to the Trump cult of personality?


I have been saying for years that Democrats were losing the working class vote (and everyone in here completely disagrees with me)

What did Andrew Yang say yesterday? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

The girl who cuts my hair and makes no more than $60K a year is a fvckin Trump supporter who lives in a big blue collar town.....I was blown away

Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make

She left school at 16-works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and takes one vacation per year to NH.

Again, all of that may be true. And the Dems have work to do going forward to keep all of the disparate coalitions together as well as recover some of the lost voters. That said, I don't want the Dems to make appeals to voters who think its just fine to rip babies from their mothers and ship them across the country, or who completely reject any type of limitation on gun ownership, or who utterly reject the idea that black people have suffered real racism, including at the hands of the police or who think that climate change is fake and that we should mine and log out every last piece of land in the country.

But as a conservative, are you happy for the GOP to proceed as the Party of Trump, with all of the conspiracy theory embracing, the grievance politics, the rejection of expertise and science, the dehumanization of illegal immigrants, the hostility to LGBT people, etc.? Are you happy to live with that as long as your taxes are a wee bit lower?

I'll respond in full when I have more time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:42:25 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER
Ah Jesus Whitey, I thought you had fallen off a cliff. Glad your ok ;D

Really busy at work....I took a break posting  leading up to the election and probably will again soon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:48:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:41:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497

Assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is all correct, you're comparing that incident to the complete surrender of almost the entire US conservative movement to becoming an irrational conspiracy movement dedicated primarily to the Trump cult of personality?


I have been saying for years that Democrats were losing the working class vote (and everyone in here completely disagrees with me)

What did Andrew Yang say yesterday? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

The girl who cuts my hair and makes no more than $60K a year is a fvckin Trump supporter who lives in a big blue collar town.....I was blown away

Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make

She left school at 16-works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and takes one vacation per year to NH.

Again, all of that may be true. And the Dems have work to do going forward to keep all of the disparate coalitions together as well as recover some of the lost voters. That said, I don't want the Dems to make appeals to voters who think its just fine to rip babies from their mothers and ship them across the country, or who completely reject any type of limitation on gun ownership, or who utterly reject the idea that black people have suffered real racism, including at the hands of the police or who think that climate change is fake and that we should mine and log out every last piece of land in the country.

But as a conservative, are you happy for the GOP to proceed as the Party of Trump, with all of the conspiracy theory embracing, the grievance politics, the rejection of expertise and science, the dehumanization of illegal immigrants, the hostility to LGBT people, etc.? Are you happy to live with that as long as your taxes are a wee bit lower?

I'll respond in full when I have more time.

I'm a bit busy myself, and frankly more interested right now in the election itself, so let's revisit. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Corkscrew on November 06, 2020, 03:05:51 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 06, 2020, 01:35:38 PM
Steve Bannon! Maybe that belongs on the WTF thread.

We have pickup convoys full of armed men, waving flags, radicalised into believing they are doing their Gods Will whilst their spiritual directors call for beheadings of government Officials.
Maybe this belongs on the ISIS thread.

Obviously you have never heard of Shut Down DC and Sunrise. Must be just a Conspiracy Theory .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 06, 2020, 03:06:09 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 06, 2020, 02:02:32 PM
Looking like a comprehensive victory for Biden. It should end up 306 v 229. Thats a brave hammering for Bluffer Don if it ends like that.

Looks that way and the polls would be right with Biden winning by a bit to spare.

Trump will always be Trump but my god he made a total fool of himself last night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 03:07:51 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 06, 2020, 01:35:38 PM
Steve Bannon! Maybe that belongs on the WTF thread.

We have pickup convoys full of armed men, waving flags, radicalised into believing they are doing their Gods Will whilst their spiritual directors call for beheadings of government Officials.
Maybe this belongs on the ISIS thread.
Well I did say that there was no difference between the ideology of Trumpism and the Republican party (there is no difference) and ISIS

There isn't
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 03:25:47 PM
Some GOP dude from PA on Fox right now going on about possible fraud and "shenanigans" and how we "want to believe in the result".

But of course he adds the proviso that he has no evidence of any wrongdoing!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote"As we said on July 19th, the American people will decide this election. And the United States government is perfectly capable of escorting trespassers out of the White House," campaign spokesperson Andrew Bates said in a statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 03:46:20 PM
I was wondering why this thread wasnt polluted and then remembered I used the ignore function - assume he is still polluting it?

Biden is the clear winner - thats a wrap.

There is no evidence of wrong doing in the voting or counting so its time Trump started to pack his belongings.
If not then when the time comes he should be escorted off the premises.

Time gentlemen please......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote"As we said on July 19th, the American people will decide this election. And the United States government is perfectly capable of escorting trespassers out of the White House," campaign spokesperson Andrew Bates said in a statement.

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 04:14:48 PM
I think it's very interesting how when Trump supporters refer to the "working class", they only ever mean whites
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 03:46:20 PM
I was wondering why this thread wasnt polluted and then remembered I used the ignore function - assume he is still polluting it?

Biden is the clear winner - thats a wrap.

There is no evidence of wrong doing in the voting or counting so its time Trump started to pack his belongings.
If not then when the time comes he should be escorted off the premises.

Time gentlemen please......

So it is back to irish politics then|??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 04:18:03 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 03:46:20 PM
I was wondering why this thread wasnt polluted and then remembered I used the ignore function - assume he is still polluting it?

Biden is the clear winner - thats a wrap.

There is no evidence of wrong doing in the voting or counting so its time Trump started to pack his belongings.
If not then when the time comes he should be escorted off the premises.

Time gentlemen please......

So it is back to irish politics then|??

Never a dull moment in either of them Denn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 06, 2020, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 06, 2020, 02:13:28 PM
Even if the Democrats were to win the two Georgia run off seats, I wouldn't be expecting anything too radical to pass (court packing, statehood for DC, PR).  There would only need to be one Democrat to abstain or vote against a piece of legislation for it not to pass.  And there are Democratic senators in mostly red states who would be wary of losing their seats if seen to be voting for anything too extreme.

I don't expect court packing to be even attempted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 06, 2020, 04:33:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:38:54 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497

Assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is all correct, you're comparing that incident to the complete surrender of almost the entire US conservative movement to becoming an irrational conspiracy movement dedicated primarily to the Trump cult of personality?


I have been saying for years that Democrats were losing the working class vote (and everyone in here completely disagrees with me)

What did Andrew Yang say yesterday? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

The girl who cuts my hair and makes no more than $60K a year is a fvckin Trump supporter who lives in a big blue collar town.....I was blown away

Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make

She left school at 16-works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and takes one vacation per year to NH.

So what has Trump done to help her economic or social situation?


That's a great question

Probably not as much as she thinks, but he did cut her taxes by about $1500

It's more nuanced than that though. She told me this story years ago about her tenants selling their food stamps. They all smoke, they all drink, they all have kids who's fathers don't work or pay child support. So when Trump cuts food stamps and she personally knows people who are flat out abusing the system, that's a huge plus for Trump in her book.

How did Trump fund that tax cut?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 04:38:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2020, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 03:46:20 PM
I was wondering why this thread wasnt polluted and then remembered I used the ignore function - assume he is still polluting it?

Biden is the clear winner - thats a wrap.

There is no evidence of wrong doing in the voting or counting so its time Trump started to pack his belongings.
If not then when the time comes he should be escorted off the premises.

Time gentlemen please......

So it is back to irish politics then|??
mikey Healy Rae would definitely be more in most of you guys wheelhouses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 06, 2020, 04:46:41 PM
Did "Gmac" ever get round to condemning those right wing terrorists?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 04:49:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 06, 2020, 04:46:41 PM
Did "Gmac" ever get round to condemning those right wing terrorists?
did you know they wanted to hang trump , they ok now or should I condemn
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 04:53:10 PM
Biden ahead by 22,076 votes in Nevada, the remaining votes are mostly around Vegas which are going 70% to Biden.
Trump caught slightly in Arizona, but but not at a sufficient rate.
Biden to win NV, AZ, GA and PA!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 04:57:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 04:49:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 06, 2020, 04:46:41 PM
Did "Gmac" ever get round to condemning those right wing terrorists?
did you know they wanted to hang trump , they ok now or should I condemn

Evidence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 05:10:14 PM
Steve Bannon yesterday called for the beheading of Anthony Fauci and FBI Director Christopher Wray and for their heads be put on pikes at the White House

He meant it too, he's a total nihilist, as is Trump

No respect whatsoever should be paid to the nihilist ideology of the Republican party

It should be treated like the KKK is treated, as an existential threat, because it is, it's the modern equivalent of Salem and the flat earthers

This really cannot be repeated enough times

It needs to be disbanded and repudiated







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 05:30:24 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 06, 2020, 04:33:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:38:54 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 06, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
I would expect the Democrats have a great chance of taking both GA Senate seats

Then the fun and games will begin, because Joe is going to have to enact a VERY progressive agenda

Democrats are already losing ground in the House and could face a severe backlash in two years at the midterms.

2020 showed us (me anyway) that the Republicans are far from finished.  In spite of everything that was one heck of a turnout for Trump in the middle of a pandemic

Regarding people voting or not voting.....it has been reported that Colin Kaepernick has never even bothered to register....EVER

You don't find this and Trump's conduct all week (and probably to come) even slightly disturbing?

No more disturbing than concocting a fake dossier and using it to spy on an opponents campaign staff

Did you read about what was said in Nancy Pelosis call yesterday.....that would explain (in my opinion) why Trump got such a great vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/failure-house-democrats-grapple-surprise-2020-losses/story%3fid=74048497

Assuming for the sake of argument that what you say is all correct, you're comparing that incident to the complete surrender of almost the entire US conservative movement to becoming an irrational conspiracy movement dedicated primarily to the Trump cult of personality?


I have been saying for years that Democrats were losing the working class vote (and everyone in here completely disagrees with me)

What did Andrew Yang say yesterday? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

The girl who cuts my hair and makes no more than $60K a year is a fvckin Trump supporter who lives in a big blue collar town.....I was blown away

Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make

She left school at 16-works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and takes one vacation per year to NH.

So what has Trump done to help her economic or social situation?


That's a great question

Probably not as much as she thinks, but he did cut her taxes by about $1500

It's more nuanced than that though. She told me this story years ago about her tenants selling their food stamps. They all smoke, they all drink, they all have kids who's fathers don't work or pay child support. So when Trump cuts food stamps and she personally knows people who are flat out abusing the system, that's a huge plus for Trump in her book.

How did Trump fund that tax cut?

By increasing the deficit I believe

I never said I was in favor of it BTW. It benefited me but I would have preferred not getting it unless it was paid for
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:38:54 PM

That's a great question

Probably not as much as she thinks, but he did cut her taxes by about $1500

It's more nuanced than that though. She told me this story years ago about her tenants selling their food stamps. They all smoke, they all drink, they all have kids who's fathers don't work or pay child support. So when Trump cuts food stamps and she personally knows people who are flat out abusing the system, that's a huge plus for Trump in her book. 


So the ultimate source of her rental income is the tax payer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 05:59:07 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:38:54 PM

That's a great question

Probably not as much as she thinks, but he did cut her taxes by about $1500

It's more nuanced than that though. She told me this story years ago about her tenants selling their food stamps. They all smoke, they all drink, they all have kids who's fathers don't work or pay child support. So when Trump cuts food stamps and she personally knows people who are flat out abusing the system, that's a huge plus for Trump in her book. 


So the ultimate source of her rental income is the tax payer.

Who said that?

People can be on various forms of welfare and yet not receive section 8 payments

In fact, given the amount of time she spends in court I highly doubt it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 05:59:07 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:38:54 PM

That's a great question

Probably not as much as she thinks, but he did cut her taxes by about $1500

It's more nuanced than that though. She told me this story years ago about her tenants selling their food stamps. They all smoke, they all drink, they all have kids who's fathers don't work or pay child support. So when Trump cuts food stamps and she personally knows people who are flat out abusing the system, that's a huge plus for Trump in her book. 


So the ultimate source of her rental income is the tax payer.

Who said that?

People can be on various forms of welfare and yet not receive section 8 payments

In fact, given the amount of time she spends in court I highly doubt it.

"Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make"

Where do her tenants get the money to pay rent?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:02:30 PM
(https://images.dailykos.com/images/879399/large/PAGA.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:04:23 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 05:59:07 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:38:54 PM

That's a great question

Probably not as much as she thinks, but he did cut her taxes by about $1500

It's more nuanced than that though. She told me this story years ago about her tenants selling their food stamps. They all smoke, they all drink, they all have kids who's fathers don't work or pay child support. So when Trump cuts food stamps and she personally knows people who are flat out abusing the system, that's a huge plus for Trump in her book. 


So the ultimate source of her rental income is the tax payer.

Who said that?

People can be on various forms of welfare and yet not receive section 8 payments

In fact, given the amount of time she spends in court I highly doubt it.

"Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make"

Where do her tenants get the money to pay rent?

Selling drugs, family members who are glad to be shut of them, shoplifting, scamming etc. Oh and the biggest scam believe it or not, is some of them actually sublet.

A person with half decent credit will sign the lease, then let other people live there and charge them rent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:06:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:04:23 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 05:59:07 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 02:38:54 PM

That's a great question

Probably not as much as she thinks, but he did cut her taxes by about $1500

It's more nuanced than that though. She told me this story years ago about her tenants selling their food stamps. They all smoke, they all drink, they all have kids who's fathers don't work or pay child support. So when Trump cuts food stamps and she personally knows people who are flat out abusing the system, that's a huge plus for Trump in her book. 


So the ultimate source of her rental income is the tax payer.

Who said that?

People can be on various forms of welfare and yet not receive section 8 payments

In fact, given the amount of time she spends in court I highly doubt it.

"Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make"

Where do her tenants get the money to pay rent?

Selling drugs, family members who are glad to be shut of them, shoplifting, scamming etc

So the source of her rental income is crime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2020, 06:07:38 PM
always fun to see "story time with whitey"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 06:09:37 PM
Here lads why hasn't this been called yet??

The longer it's not the longer Trump gets to spout his nonsense the longer he's legitimised... they need to pull the finger out!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:11:52 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2020, 06:07:38 PM
always fun to see "story time with whitey"
He has a very active imagination

I suppose you have to have when you live in a paranoid, dystopian world of fantasy, entirely divorced from the real world
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2020, 06:13:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 06:09:37 PM
Here lads why hasn't this been called yet??

The longer it's not the longer Trump gets to spout his nonsense the longer he's legitimised... they need to pull the finger out!!

Nah, it's death by a 1000 cuts for Trump....the longer it takes to count and legitimise the votes, the harder it will be for him to challenge. Even Fox News aren't buying the illegal votes issue. Gaps are too big. Some craic if he hunkers down and the Secret Service have to arrest him on Inauguration Day!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:18:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:11:52 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2020, 06:07:38 PM
always fun to see "story time with whitey"
He has a very active imagination

I suppose you have to have when you live in a paranoid, dystopian world of fantasy, entirely divorced from the real world

Believe what you want Sid.... the Dems are losing the working class vote.

You know, people who work hard, obey the law and raise their family types

I get my hair cut once a month and always enjoy hearing about her latest battles in housing court. She could actually write a book....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 06:19:20 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2020, 06:13:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 06:09:37 PM
Here lads why hasn't this been called yet??

The longer it's not the longer Trump gets to spout his nonsense the longer he's legitimised... they need to pull the finger out!!

Nah, it's death by a 1000 cuts for Trump....the longer it takes to count and legitimise the votes, the harder it will be for him to challenge. Even Fox News aren't buying the illegal votes issue. Gaps are too big. Some craic if he hunkers down and the Secret Service have to arrest him on Inauguration Day!

Will he even turn up for that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:01:07 PM


"Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make"

Where do her tenants get the money to pay rent?
Let's apply the same right wing newspeak which is always applied to rich spongers like Trump, but is never, ever applied to poor people who were given little chance to ever advance in a rigged society

"The tenants are sovereign, free individuals

They are maximising their personal utility

Fair play to them, a lot of miserable begrudgery out there towards such people"

Right wingers apply entirely different rules to rich and poor

Right wingers love the real spongers - the sponging rich

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:27:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:01:07 PM


"Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make"

Where do her tenants get the money to pay rent?
Let's apply the same right wing newspeak which is always applied to rich spongers like Trump, but is never, ever applied to poor people who were given little chance to ever advance in a rigged society

"The tenants are sovereign, free individuals

They are maximising their personal utility

Fair play to them, a lot of miserable begrudgery out there towards such people"

Right wingers apply entirely different rules to rich and poor

Right wingers love the real spongers - the sponging rich

So a working class girl who left school and started cutting hair at age 16 and bought a three family house is a rich sponger and is supposed to subsidize the lifestyles of others-interesting perspective
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:29:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:18:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:11:52 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2020, 06:07:38 PM
always fun to see "story time with whitey"
He has a very active imagination

I suppose you have to have when you live in a paranoid, dystopian world of fantasy, entirely divorced from the real world

Believe what you want Sid.... the Dems are losing the working class vote.

You know, people who work hard, obey the law and raise their family types

I get my hair cut once a month and always enjoy hearing about her latest battles in housing court. She could actually write a book....
The reason a lot of white working class vote for Donald Trump is the exact same reason Adolf Hitler was popular with the German working class

Everything else is noise

The Republicans are an out of control, lawless, anti-democratic cult

Most of America can see it and the whole of the rest of the world can see it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:33:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:27:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:01:07 PM


"Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make"

Where do her tenants get the money to pay rent?
Let's apply the same right wing newspeak which is always applied to rich spongers like Trump, but is never, ever applied to poor people who were given little chance to ever advance in a rigged society

"The tenants are sovereign, free individuals

They are maximising their personal utility

Fair play to them, a lot of miserable begrudgery out there towards such people"

Right wingers apply entirely different rules to rich and poor

Right wingers love the real spongers - the sponging rich

So a working class girl who left school and started cutting hair at age 16 and bought a three family house is a rich sponger and is supposed to subsidize the lifestyles of others-interesting perspective
I said literally nothing about anybody cutting hair, but nice attempt at a straw man because you have no argument

According to your logic, it's her tenants who are the hard workers, the sovereign, free individuals

You just don't apply that sort of language to poor people because you're brainwashed by Murdoch media like Fox News, and online conspiracy theory loons like the Republican party

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:33:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:27:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:01:07 PM


"Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make"

Where do her tenants get the money to pay rent?
Let's apply the same right wing newspeak which is always applied to rich spongers like Trump, but is never, ever applied to poor people who were given little chance to ever advance in a rigged society

"The tenants are sovereign, free individuals

They are maximising their personal utility

Fair play to them, a lot of miserable begrudgery out there towards such people"

Right wingers apply entirely different rules to rich and poor

Right wingers love the real spongers - the sponging rich

So a working class girl who left school and started cutting hair at age 16 and bought a three family house is a rich sponger and is supposed to subsidize the lifestyles of others-interesting perspective
I said literally nothing about anybody cutting hair, but nice attempt at a straw man because you have no argument

According to your logic, it's her tenants who are the hard workers, the sovereign, free individuals

You just don't apply that sort of language to poor people because you're brainwashed by Murdoch media like Fox News, and online conspiracy theory loons like the Republican party


I was asked why a hairdresser in Massachusetts making $60K per year would be a Trump supporter and I answered the question as she explained it to me last Thursday evening
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:33:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2020, 06:27:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 06:01:07 PM


"Well she owns a 3 family house. None of her tenants work, never have-never will, yet get every handout under the sun and have zero accountability for any of the (bad)decisions they make"

Where do her tenants get the money to pay rent?
Let's apply the same right wing newspeak which is always applied to rich spongers like Trump, but is never, ever applied to poor people who were given little chance to ever advance in a rigged society

"The tenants are sovereign, free individuals

They are maximising their personal utility

Fair play to them, a lot of miserable begrudgery out there towards such people"

Right wingers apply entirely different rules to rich and poor

Right wingers love the real spongers - the sponging rich

So a working class girl who left school and started cutting hair at age 16 and bought a three family house is a rich sponger and is supposed to subsidize the lifestyles of others-interesting perspective
I said literally nothing about anybody cutting hair, but nice attempt at a straw man because you have no argument

According to your logic, it's her tenants who are the hard workers, the sovereign, free individuals

You just don't apply that sort of language to poor people because you're brainwashed by Murdoch media like Fox News, and online conspiracy theory loons like the Republican party


I was asked why a hairdresser in Massachusetts making $60K per year would be a Trump supporter and I answered the question as she explained it to me last Thursday evening
You failed to address my point as it's on the nose

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on November 06, 2020, 07:08:29 PM
If you were to put a neutral hat on, what did Trump do in those 4 years that were positive for the American people? We all know the negatives, but are there some things he can take credit for?

Did he improve the lives of some in the rust belt?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2020, 07:13:44 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 06, 2020, 07:08:29 PM
Did he improve the lives of some in the rust belt?

Not really, economic growth before Covid was about the same pace that he inherited from Obama/Biden.
manufacturing jobs increased at about the same pace that he inherited from Obama/Biden.

and his trade war had actually started to hit manufacturing back in 2019
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/07/25/us-manufacturing-is-technical-recession-how-worried-should-we-be/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 07:17:20 PM
I've a few 'friends' On fb who will site Trump didn't blow up as many people as Obama... is that true?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 06, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 06, 2020, 07:08:29 PM
If you were to put a neutral hat on, what did Trump do in those 4 years that were positive for the American people? We all know the negatives, but are there some things he can take credit for?

Did he improve the lives of some in the rust belt?
No.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-rust-belt-trump-steel-manufacturing-pennsylvania-ohio-michigan-b1372995.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-rust-belt-trump-steel-manufacturing-pennsylvania-ohio-michigan-b1372995.html)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2020, 07:24:29 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124003341_10157805338138511_228120682493615658_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=pmcncVCBs9QAX8pyImT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=07ba56847ad0093fe7f6c2c4fb39242f&oe=5FCAA446)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2020, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 07:17:20 PM
I've a few 'friends' On fb who will site Trump didn't blow up as many people as Obama... is that true?

He launched far more drone strikes if that helps you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 07:31:43 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 06, 2020, 07:08:29 PM
If you were to put a neutral hat on, what did Trump do in those 4 years that were positive for the American people? We all know the negatives, but are there some things he can take credit for?

Did he improve the lives of some in the rust belt?

Whether he was responsible for it or not he was riding the wave of growth Obama created is up for debate but there is no doubt it was boom time while he was in charge in terms of jobs and market performance.

Judges probably the biggest one he's packed federal benches across the country with Conservatives.

He's spent an absolute shit tonne of money on the military.

The death of Abu . . . Bakr . . . Al . . . Baghdadi!

He died like a dog!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 06, 2020, 07:48:34 PM
Carnival time in the streets of Philadelphia
YMCA reclaimed!!


https://twitter.com/i/status/1324753161219952641 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1324753161219952641)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2020, 07:55:41 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 07:31:43 PM

Whether he was responsible for it or not he was riding the wave of growth Obama created is up for debate but there is no doubt it was boom time while he was in charge in terms of jobs and market performance.


Jobs growth no faster under him that what he inherited from Obama.

Stock market was not faster under him either

https://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 08:03:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2020, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 07:17:20 PM
I've a few 'friends' On fb who will site Trump didn't blow up as many people as Obama... is that true?

He launched far more drone strikes if that helps you

Is that because Trump wasn't into war side of things or was this a cost saving exercise so he could spunk it somewhere else?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
I don't have an article but there is a hairdresser somewhere who is up another 1200 dollars over the last few years so that should tell you all you need to know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 09:17:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 06, 2020, 07:48:34 PM
Carnival time in the streets of Philadelphia
YMCA reclaimed!!


https://twitter.com/i/status/1324753161219952641 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1324753161219952641)

Trump man, yes, it's time to step down
I said, Trump man, you've been beat to the ground
I said, Trump man, yeah your pants they look brown
You might need a new Trump nappy

Trump man, there's a place you can go
I said, Trump man, prison locked on your own
You can stay there, and I'm sure you will find
Many ways to have a good time

Don, Don, Don, Don, Don

It's what we're stayin' for, Biden PA
It's what we're waitin' for, Biden PA
It's a beautiful thing for the world to enjoy
He got rid of you and your boys

Trump man, you killed Epstein somehow
I said Trump man, Russia can't save you now
I said Trump man, yeah your wife is a cow
Now for once the world is happy

Don, Don, Don, Don, Don

It's what we're stayin' for, Biden PA
It's what we're waiting for, Biden PA
It's a beautiful thing for the world to enjoy
He got rid of you and your boys

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2020, 09:17:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
I don't have an article but there is a hairdresser somewhere who is up another 1200 dollars over the last few years so that should tell you all you need to know

According to a very reliable source that hairdresser gets money from drug dealers and shoplifters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2020, 09:17:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
I don't have an article but there is a hairdresser somewhere who is up another 1200 dollars over the last few years so that should tell you all you need to know

According to a very reliable source that hairdresser gets money from drug dealers and shoplifters.
She always makes sure they get their cut
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 09:23:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
I don't have an article but there is a hairdresser somewhere who is up another 1200 dollars over the last few years so that should tell you all you need to know
gas listening to guys from Ireland talking about how stupid Us voters are when the same party that wrecked the economy there and hundreds of thousands of livelihoods are back in power , but Irish electorate are so Smart , sure they are . As For the nordies still Voting down religious lines even though most haven't seen the inside of a church/chapel in years , very enlightened indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 09:24:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2020, 07:31:43 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 06, 2020, 07:08:29 PM
If you were to put a neutral hat on, what did Trump do in those 4 years that were positive for the American people? We all know the negatives, but are there some things he can take credit for?

Did he improve the lives of some in the rust belt?

Whether he was responsible for it or not he was riding the wave of growth Obama created is up for debate but there is no doubt it was boom time while he was in charge in terms of jobs and market performance.

Judges probably the biggest one he's packed federal benches across the country with Conservatives.

He's spent an absolute shit tonne of money on the military.

The death of Abu . . . Bakr . . . Al . . . Baghdadi!

He died like a dog!!
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi still died with a lot more dignity than Trump's election prospects are doing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 09:23:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
I don't have an article but there is a hairdresser somewhere who is up another 1200 dollars over the last few years so that should tell you all you need to know
gas listening to guys from Ireland talking about how stupid Us voters are when the same party that wrecked the economy there and hundreds of thousands of livelihoods are back in power , but Irish electorate are so Smart , sure they are . As For the nordies still Voting down religious lines even though most haven't seen the inside of a church/chapel in years , very enlightened indeed.
Our kids are fairly safe in school though
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: shark on November 06, 2020, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 09:23:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
I don't have an article but there is a hairdresser somewhere who is up another 1200 dollars over the last few years so that should tell you all you need to know
gas listening to guys from Ireland talking about how stupid Us voters are when the same party that wrecked the economy there and hundreds of thousands of livelihoods are back in power , but Irish electorate are so Smart , sure they are . As For the nordies still Voting down religious lines even though most haven't seen the inside of a church/chapel in years , very enlightened indeed.

It would not be accurate to say the Irish electorate have forgotten. FF have had the 3 worst election results in their history in the 3 elections since the GFC. They are never going back to where they were.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 09:51:23 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 09:23:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
I don't have an article but there is a hairdresser somewhere who is up another 1200 dollars over the last few years so that should tell you all you need to know
gas listening to guys from Ireland talking about how stupid Us voters are when the same party that wrecked the economy there and hundreds of thousands of livelihoods are back in power , but Irish electorate are so Smart , sure they are . As For the nordies still Voting down religious lines even though most haven't seen the inside of a church/chapel in years , very enlightened indeed.
Our kids are fairly safe in school though
You might say that, but if you don't have an AR-15 in the classroom you can't shoot the Coronavirus away
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:53:56 PM
Listen u gimps, I'm in a argument with a family member and I need that link
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:57:48 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:53:56 PM
Listen u gimps, I'm in a argument with a family member and I need that link
;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on November 06, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
haha!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 06, 2020, 09:59:44 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:53:56 PM
Listen u gimps, I'm in a argument with a family member and I need that link

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 10:01:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 09:23:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
I don't have an article but there is a hairdresser somewhere who is up another 1200 dollars over the last few years so that should tell you all you need to know
gas listening to guys from Ireland talking about how stupid Us voters are when the same party that wrecked the economy there and hundreds of thousands of livelihoods are back in power , but Irish electorate are so Smart , sure they are . As For the nordies still Voting down religious lines even though most haven't seen the inside of a church/chapel in years , very enlightened indeed.
Em, I don't think you've got the irony of what you wrote there but I'll spell it out for you anywho

You're now criticising the Irish people for voting (in much reduced numbers than before) for the party that crashed the economy (resulting in them being in a position to enter a multi-party coalition government due to the fragmented nature of the Irish parliamentary system)

While simultaneously you're an all out cultist for the party that crashed the US economy, arguably the world economy

Didn't really think that one through, did you

But sure plus ca change and all that

Also while I would be very far from being a Fianna Fáil supporter I recognise the difference between a fascist party and a non-fascist party

Fianna Fáil, whatever they are, are not a fascist party

The Republican party are

Fianna Fáil are not the Republican party - even if they may still claim they are

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 06, 2020, 10:05:00 PM
No matter how stupid we Irish (26 Co) may be we only gave the local Trumpites 0 8% in the GE.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 06, 2020, 10:13:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 09:23:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 06, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: redzone on November 06, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Would anyone have an article on how the economy performed during Obama and trumps presidenty
I don't have an article but there is a hairdresser somewhere who is up another 1200 dollars over the last few years so that should tell you all you need to know
gas listening to guys from Ireland talking about how stupid Us voters are when the same party that wrecked the economy there and hundreds of thousands of livelihoods are back in power , but Irish electorate are so Smart , sure they are . As For the nordies still Voting down religious lines even though most haven't seen the inside of a church/chapel in years , very enlightened indeed.


The US economy was wrecked with 8 years of Bush Junior.

Voting in poor politicians is one thing however voting for a dangerous narcissist man child who is a racist, bigot and whom entices violence is a whole different level of stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 06, 2020, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 06, 2020, 10:05:00 PM
No matter how stupid we Irish (26 Co) may be we only gave the local Trumpites 0 8% in the GE.
never said anyone was stupid .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2020, 10:49:32 PM
Apparently 100K provisional ballots to be sorted through in PA.

Its probably going to be next week before they call it.

Come on ta f**k Nevada and Arizona!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 06, 2020, 11:24:13 PM
I presume this is because saying "President-elect Biden" would make Fox anchors and their viewers cry

Hurt feelings are a terrible thing

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/06/media/fox-news-election-projection-plan/index.html

New York (CNN Business)Fox News, the cable network that has been one of President Trump's most important supporters, told anchors and other staffers not to call Joe Biden the "President-elect" when the network calls the race, according to two memos obtained by CNN Business.

The memos said that Fox should "stay away" from using the description, and instead say something like Biden has "enough electoral votes to win the presidency."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ONeill on November 06, 2020, 11:36:28 PM
How's things now Redzone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2020, 12:38:32 AM
The "f**k your feelings" crowd are now suddenly very concerned about the importance of respecting people's feelings when they're hurting after a defeat.


----
'Give People Time!' CNN's Rick Santorum Pleads for Everyone to Let Trump and His Fans Work Out Their Feelings About Losing (https://www.mediaite.com/news/give-people-time-cnns-rick-santorum-pleads-for-everyone-to-let-trump-and-his-fans-work-out-their-feelings-about-losing/)

CNN analyst Rick Santorum issued an unironic plea for everyone to give President Donald Trump and his supporters time and space to work through the emotional experience of losing the presidency to former Vice President Joe Biden.

On the Friday morning when Biden took a likely insurmountable lead in Pennsylvania and all but secured his victory over Trump, Santorum told a CNN panel not to rush Trump and his fans into conceding.

As the panel discussed how it was that someone could talk Trump into accepting defeat, Santorum declared "Give people time!"

"You know he's just found out that he's probably not going to be the president of the United States here, and you can say 'Well it was in the cards,' but you don't know until the votes are counted. I mean listen to John King," Santorum said.


"It's democracy's schedule It's not Donald Trump's," Gloria Borger interrupted.

SPONSORED CONTENT
了解这条新法律对青少年的意义
BY TOBACCO FREE CA
"Give his supporters and everybody time to figure this out," Santorum continued, and thanked David Axelrod for criticizing the Biden campaign statement that if Trump doesn't leave, "the United States government is perfectly capable of escorting trespassers out of the White House."

"It's not time to, that kind of rhetoric is not going to be helpful," Santorum said. "This is a very emotional time."

He asserted that the same would be true in the reverse situation, and said "Let the process work. Give people space to work through this."

Van Jones said he agreed with Santorum, explaining that "people wanted Hillary to Clinton to come out that night and she needed a minute. And her supporters needed a minute and she came out the next day."

But Jones added "I don't think we're looking at this same situation with Donald Trump. The fear that people have is that this isn't about him kind of getting himself together to come out and make a responsible speech, that he just is going to be a bitter ender."

Time will tell how much space a political movement that was infamously fueled by what it called "liberal tears" will be given to work through its feelings.

Watch the clip above via CNN.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2020, 12:43:32 AM
Not so sure how comfortable I am with Biden claiming victory without it being called anywhere.

Yeah he's going to win but I think it fuels the fire and makes things worse.

This thing needs called by 4-5 outlets to make it concrete and it should happen tomorrow all being well Trump isn't appearing tonight so I do t see what's to gain by claiming victory tonight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2020, 12:48:35 AM
Snowflakes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 07, 2020, 12:50:22 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2020, 12:48:35 AM
Snowflakes.

Triggered.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2020, 01:02:34 AM
Take yer beating!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 07, 2020, 01:03:53 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 06, 2020, 10:19:37 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2020, 09:53:24 AM
Given Trumps remarks about veterans and also his general demeanour I would imagine that he would not be favoured by military men. They are not red-neck, sister shaggers with guns like a lot of his supporters.


A lot of them sister shaggers? Thats a ridiculous comment. Plently of ordinary folk vote for Trump for numerous different reasons. Plenty of ordinary folk vote for Biden for numerous different reasons too.

Fair point, but I also think it's fair to say Trump probably won the sister shagging demographic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2020, 01:05:47 AM
Tucker reckons Joe Biden is a hologram and that big tech and corporate America are behind the projector!!!

But y'know the liberals are crazy  ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 01:06:00 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2020, 12:43:32 AM
Not so sure how comfortable I am with Biden claiming victory without it being called anywhere.

Yeah he's going to win but I think it fuels the fire and makes things worse.

This thing needs called by 4-5 outlets to make it concrete and it should happen tomorrow all being well Trump isn't appearing tonight so I do t see what's to gain by claiming victory tonight.

I'd imagine he'll wait until it's called.

What's the hurry? It's not like him claiming victory has any legal implication anyway.

Let Trump the fuckin gobshite declare victory and "claim" PA, MI and so on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2020, 01:15:16 AM
They just released a statement saying they'll only appear if it's called. They're giving it until 10pm EST.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 07, 2020, 01:24:58 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2020, 01:05:47 AM
Tucker reckons Joe Biden is a hologram and that big tech and corporate America are behind the projector!!!

But y'know the liberals are crazy  ::) ::)

Turned turned him on - great craic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 07, 2020, 02:24:44 AM
Arizona drags on, it will not be called, although Trump is unlikely to catch up. Likewise it is arithmetically possible for Trump to catch up in Nevada, even if it is more likely that Antrim will win tomorrow. Perhaps you could reasonably call PA where Biden is 21,000 and there are still some votes in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh to go. Georgia is a recount.
This whole thing could be in Limbo for days to come.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 02:36:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2020, 12:38:32 AM
The "f**k your feelings" crowd are now suddenly very concerned about the importance of respecting people's feelings when they're hurting after a defeat.


----
'Give People Time!' CNN's Rick Santorum Pleads for Everyone to Let Trump and His Fans Work Out Their Feelings About Losing (https://www.mediaite.com/news/give-people-time-cnns-rick-santorum-pleads-for-everyone-to-let-trump-and-his-fans-work-out-their-feelings-about-losing/)

Trumpism and right-wing politics in general is based on an extreme and insane political correctness

Any challenge to idiotic, moronic or hate filled opinions at all is interpreted as an all angles hostile attack after which the holder of the moronic or hate filled opinions claims fake victimhood

Any ridicule of moronic or hate filled opinions is immediately met with moronic retreat into fake victimhood

The cries of "free speech" suddenly disappear, because "free speech" cries from right wingers is a transparent grift, a fraud

All that matters to Trumpists is that anybody who dares challenge them is shut down and forced to be subservient to their idiocy and hate, all because Trumpists' feelings get hurt if people talk back at them

An extreme, insane form of political correctness for bedwetting fascists






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2020, 03:36:48 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 02:36:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2020, 12:38:32 AM
The "f**k your feelings" crowd are now suddenly very concerned about the importance of respecting people's feelings when they're hurting after a defeat.


----
'Give People Time!' CNN's Rick Santorum Pleads for Everyone to Let Trump and His Fans Work Out Their Feelings About Losing (https://www.mediaite.com/news/give-people-time-cnns-rick-santorum-pleads-for-everyone-to-let-trump-and-his-fans-work-out-their-feelings-about-losing/)

Trumpism and right-wing politics in general is based on an extreme and insane political correctness

Any challenge to idiotic, moronic or hate filled opinions at all is interpreted as an all angles hostile attack after which the holder of the moronic or hate filled opinions claims fake victimhood

Any ridicule of moronic or hate filled opinions is immediately met with moronic retreat into fake victimhood

The cries of "free speech" suddenly disappear, because "free speech" cries from right wingers is a transparent grift, a fraud

All that matters to Trumpists is that anybody who dares challenge them is shut down and forced to be subservient to their idiocy and hate, all because Trumpists' feelings get hurt if people talk back at them

An extreme, insane form of political correctness for bedwetting fascists
Trumpism is plutocracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 07, 2020, 04:19:53 AM
Now Meadows has tested CoVid positive. The lunacy in the White House is now excusable. They are all on drugs!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 08:53:57 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2020, 02:24:44 AM
Arizona drags on, it will not be called, although Trump is unlikely to catch up. Likewise it is arithmetically possible for Trump to catch up in Nevada, even if it is more likely that Antrim will win tomorrow. Perhaps you could reasonably call PA where Biden is 21,000 and there are still some votes in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh to go. Georgia is a recount.
This whole thing could be in Limbo for days to come.

Are the Antrim results sorted? There was a problem with the county, in Michigan that is...

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 07, 2020, 10:36:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 08:53:57 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2020, 02:24:44 AM
Arizona drags on, it will not be called, although Trump is unlikely to catch up. Likewise it is arithmetically possible for Trump to catch up in Nevada, even if it is more likely that Antrim will win tomorrow. Perhaps you could reasonably call PA where Biden is 21,000 and there are still some votes in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh to go. Georgia is a recount.
This whole thing could be in Limbo for days to come.

Are the Antrim results sorted? There was a problem with the county, in Michigan that is...

You sure the problem is in Michigan  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 07, 2020, 10:51:54 AM
I'm still watching CNN even though there's no way they're calling this at 6 in the morning.

It'll be lunchtime at best a lot of people talking about a Pennsylvania call once the lead gets over 30k.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 07, 2020, 11:29:29 AM
What's next for the Trump cult? 
I suppose (unfortunately) a Jim Jones cult like ending is out of the question,  as the Republican party as a whole  believe in Trump. Trump has consumed the party. The reality part where Biden has won and Trump has lost, that part has to be denied because of the conspiracy  Seeing as there's no reasoned argument to support a conspiracy  and mere claims of a conspiracy existing are not evidence, the MAGA dialogue has to to turn hysterical, witches of Salem hysterical, in order to deny and create a different reality. Fox news  (just in time) had to be reined in after making  erroneous declarations of calling out a Biden win. Next Trump will have to start holding rallies where the hysteria sharing will be a part of the experience.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 12:16:31 PM
Really interesting stuff here

Demagogues exploit and prey on the psychologically vulnerable - Trump's relationship to his followers resembles a highly abusive relationship where the abused remains loyal and obedient to their abuser

https://www.dcreport.org/2020/11/05/what-is-wrong-with-68-million-americans/

What Is Wrong With 68 Million Americans?
How Trump's Mental Illness Infected 48% of the Electorate
By Bandy X. Lee

"What is wrong with 68 million Americans?" is a question many are asking the day after the election. Why should the race even be close? Why did 48% of voting adults choose to remain with a president who leaves a trail of hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths, the nation bankrupt, children in cages, and our natural habitat under existential threat?

It makes no rational sense—unless we correctly identify the problem. For almost four years, mental health professionals have been urging the nation to bring a mental health perspective to a mental health problem, instead of assuming that everything is political. All substitute approaches have failed, just as the best pandemic control comes from infectious disease specialists, not from a radiologist or economists. We have also anticipated the current situation as a product of having mental pathology in power for a prolonged period.

One indication of this effect is how Black and Hispanic voters have moved toward the president and not away, despite violent police attacks on Black Lives Matter protestors and disproportionate minority deaths from the coronavirus. No group, in fact, is immune to the spread of mental pathology, which by definition impairs insight or the very awareness that something is wrong, over time. Rational arguments, rather, face a monumental battle under these circumstances, and even something as clear-cut as death rates are not evident, as we discover. Once we place a severely mentally-impaired person in an influential position without treatment, the emotional drive of pathology is often difficult to defeat through rational means.

Psychological Manipulation
For months, Donald Trump has been emotionally calibrating his words and actions, like a delicate seismograph capable of sensing the exact mood of the country and how to respond in order to mobilize his followers. That led to ambiguous results on election night. While it may seem to defy rationality, it was very closely and accurately anticipated by many colleagues in the mental health field. This is why we repeatedly recommended that mental health experts be consulted to help prevent election theft, which would be attempted largely through psychological manipulation and symptom contagion.

In mental pathology, where higher functions are impaired, an individual taps more easily into "the primitive brain," which is irrational but very powerful, as it is survival-driven. Illegitimate power is like oxygen to the narcissistically- or sociopathically-disordered mind, and such a person would be driven to do anything—including annihilate himself and the world—for his psychic survival. Losing an election would, therefore, not at all be like a healthy person's experience of defeat. In fact, we know how much Donald Trump fears it through his readiness to call others "losers" and "suckers", in order to separate himself and to disavow qualities he cannot tolerate.

Pathological Bond
Many of his followers will equally experience his downfall as a life-or-death matter, since he has conditioned this into them. Their bond is pathological to start, based on developmental wounds or regression to an earlier stage of development under stress, which led them to seeking a parental figure. They are thus vulnerable to someone manipulative and exploitative enough to claim he will take care of them and protect them in unrealistic ways. And once they do,  they often give up their agency and rationality. Recent footage of his followers chanting, "Fire Fauci!" is disturbing in its depiction of their conformity, loss of personality, and alignment with Donald Trump's thinking—to suggest proactively that he remove the reminder of his unwanted reality: the pandemic. Delusions, paranoia, and violence-proneness are among the most contagious symptoms, and we see all these tendencies in his followers.

Under these emotional bonds, his followers will likely experience any threat to his position as an existential threat to themselves, which is why negative facts about him only activate defensive denial and disavowal, rather than abandonment. Abused children rather blame themselves than the parent as a survival impulse, for the parent is their lifeline, and it is easier to believe that he or she could never do wrong—and the more untrue this belief, the more insistently they cling to it.

Coming Danger
"Shared psychosis" or "folie à millions" (madness by the millions) has been well-documented by renowned mental health experts such as Carl Jung and Erich Fromm. This contagion of symptoms dissipates when exposure to the primary person is reduced, which is why Donald Trump holds rallies as if his life depended on them—psychically, it does. It is also the reason why he cannot leave the presidency—in addition to the possibility of prosecution.

However, these are also the very reasons why he is extremely dangerous. Over one month ago, more than 100 senior mental health experts went on video record to declare that Donald Trump was too psychologically dangerous and mentally unfit to qualify for the presidency or candidacy for reelection. More than a week ago, we held an emergency interdisciplinary conference that followed an earlier National Press Club conference, broadcast in full on C-SPAN, which brought together thirteen of the nation's top experts in fields as diverse as psychiatry, law, history, political science, economics, social psychology, journalism, climate science, and nuclear science. We emphasized the expansion of dangers into all domains and the need for fit leadership. A month ago, I urgently published a "Profile of a Nation," to help the public understand in detail what it was facing through this perilous time.

The coming weeks and months will be the most dangerous period of this presidency. While our "Prescription for Survival," first issued in March, was not heeded, it is again relevant for setting limits and preparing for other means of removal, without relying solely on the vote.  As mental health professionals, we do not comment on how he is removed—which is best left to legal and Constitutional experts—but we state that he must be removed, whatever the means, for public safety and survival.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?

A lot of people were voting against the Democrats not necessarily voting for Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?

A lot of people were voting against the Democrats not necessarily voting for Trump

I know that and a lot were voting the lesser of two evils and so, to be fair to trump he'll have secured the most ever votes collected for a runner up, I just think they rallied around him as president because he was ruthless with his staff and any senators that stepped out of line.

Like I said before I'm only interested in this race as it's so rotten.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 12:50:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?

A lot of people were voting against the Democrats not necessarily voting for Trump

They're f**king either deluded or need to take a good long look at themselves then.

This wasn't Bernie the socialist. This is a choice of a run-of-the-mill, centrist, don't-rock-the-boat moderate or a far right, bigoted, irrational, incompetent, narcissistic, sociopathic, lying man-child who cares primarily about himself and is so lacking in basic human decency that he would oversee a policy of tearing tiny kids out of their desperate parents arms to be shipped all around the country, not knowing when they'd be reunited.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2020, 01:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 12:50:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?

A lot of people were voting against the Democrats not necessarily voting for Trump

They're f**king either deluded or need to take a good long look at themselves then.

This wasn't Bernie the socialist. This is a choice of a run-of-the-mill, centrist, don't-rock-the-boat moderate or a far right, bigoted, irrational, incompetent, narcissistic, sociopathic, lying man-child who cares primarily about himself and is so lacking in basic human decency that he would oversee a policy of tearing tiny kids out of their desperate parents arms to be shipped all around the country, not knowing when they'd be reunited.

Well don't take my word for it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

(LOL-and of course the WaPo has come out with a rebuttal)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 02:07:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 01:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 12:50:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?

A lot of people were voting against the Democrats not necessarily voting for Trump

They're f**king either deluded or need to take a good long look at themselves then.

This wasn't Bernie the socialist. This is a choice of a run-of-the-mill, centrist, don't-rock-the-boat moderate or a far right, bigoted, irrational, incompetent, narcissistic, sociopathic, lying man-child who cares primarily about himself and is so lacking in basic human decency that he would oversee a policy of tearing tiny kids out of their desperate parents arms to be shipped all around the country, not knowing when they'd be reunited.

Well don't take my word for it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

(LOL-and of course the WaPo has come out with a rebuttal)

Assuming that's true, what have the GOP done for the working class?

And what's the excuse for middle class and wealthy people voting for a ghoul like Trump?

And just because the GOP and Trump are happy to exploit those who feelings are hurt by being told that racism, homophobia, xenophobia, pseudoscience and anti-intellectualism are not okay, that doesn't make the Dems wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2020, 04:30:48 PM
IT'S OVER

(https://i.postimg.cc/J7ZCcgrk/Screen-Shot-2020-11-07-at-8-26-34-AM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 07, 2020, 04:34:15 PM
Biden now beyond the .5% margin in PA that might lead to a recount, hence the call.
Up yours, Sammy Wilson.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on November 07, 2020, 04:38:26 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2020, 04:30:48 PM
IT'S OVER

(https://i.postimg.cc/J7ZCcgrk/Screen-Shot-2020-11-07-at-8-26-34-AM.png)

Margin of victory is all that has to be decided now. Trump must take this defeat on the chin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2020, 04:39:40 PM
How fitting

(https://i.postimg.cc/dQjJ9SvD/Screen-Shot-2020-11-07-at-8-38-24-AM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on November 07, 2020, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2020, 04:39:40 PM
How fitting

(https://i.postimg.cc/dQjJ9SvD/Screen-Shot-2020-11-07-at-8-38-24-AM.png)

I bet he is going ballistic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 07, 2020, 04:50:19 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Wf1BFyJ/Screenshot-20201107-164721-2.png) (https://ibb.co/RcWQP0w)
:D ;D ;D

Not only did Biden win but he'll win the popular vote by about 5 million.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 04:53:23 PM
Trump was advertising a press conference by his democracy-denying cronies at the Four Seasons Total Landscaping centre in Philadelphia set for 4:30

The race was called at 4:29

Timing

Next door to the Four Seasons Total landscaping is a business called "Fantasy Island"

You can get all your gardening needs at Four Seasons Total Landscaping, such as spades, to dig holes

Trump already has all his holes dug, and they are very deep

Van Jones's reaction to the election call was visceral

Trump's presidency has done an immense amount of harm to so many people

This feels like a great release





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tatler Jack on November 07, 2020, 04:58:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 07, 2020, 04:39:40 PM
How fitting

(https://i.postimg.cc/dQjJ9SvD/Screen-Shot-2020-11-07-at-8-38-24-AM.png)

I guess he will break 50 as he stops counting when it suits. Eagles, birdies galore and a few holes in one!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 07, 2020, 05:04:17 PM
Time to take out the trash.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: southtyronegael on November 07, 2020, 05:20:32 PM
Drain that swamp!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 05:47:51 PM
Lock him up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ziggy90 on November 07, 2020, 05:50:42 PM
Just watching the BBC News and this came up.
"Mr Biden, a word for the BBC"?
"The BBC? I'm Irish"!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on November 07, 2020, 05:51:51 PM
Republican Party will be quietly praying Donald has a coronary on a golf course somewhere and doesn't live to contest the next election as he is guaranteed to do. He is certain to run as a 3rd party candidate should he be unsuccessful in a bid to be the republican candidate.

Whatever outcome Trump will cast a long shadow over the Republican Party for the next 4 years. It'll be very hard for a republican to inspire the same emotion or base loyalty as Donald.

Would be amazing to see a 2024 election where the Democrat vote was split by Kanye and a centrist democrat and where the GOP was split by Trump and a centrist Republican.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 07, 2020, 06:47:23 PM
This man will be needed in January.

(https://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/shutterstock_5885474g.jpg?resize=800,531)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 07, 2020, 06:52:51 PM
(https://mashable-evaporation-wordpress.s3.amazonaws.com/2016/03/irelandevictions-19.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 07, 2020, 06:59:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2020, 04:34:15 PM
Biden now beyond the .5% margin in PA that might lead to a recount, hence the call.
Up yours, Sammy Wilson.
He doesn't learn, probably on a backward path since he was born.
It feels  like a very long time since Wed morn 10am when Sammy  walked on water into an RTE news program gleefully announcing that his good friend, one  who he has met many times, has won the election, that this is great news for NI. (Biden bad Trump good for NI). When it was put to him about 30 mins into the show that it was not over yet  and the news from Michigan is that ... Sammy cut  across to bleat that 'I have predicted a Trump win, he will win in Wisconsin in PA in GA etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 07, 2020, 08:12:02 PM
Not much social distancing in Washington DC  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 08:17:20 PM
And none at any of those rallies!!

Highest spikes ever in the US! Crazy people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 07, 2020, 08:26:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 08:17:20 PM
And none at any of those rallies!!

Highest spikes ever in the US! Crazy people

They were also completely wrong. But its not justification for the current scenes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park where it's jammed packed.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armamike on November 07, 2020, 08:29:59 PM
Probably the worst American president ever, certainly since the late 1800s and a complete ballbag to boot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:35:36 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 07, 2020, 08:29:59 PM
Probably the worst American president ever, certainly since the late 1800s and a complete ballbag to boot.

He will be down there for sure. Worse than the likes of Buchanan or Hoover or Andrew Johnson? Hard to know.

Worst person ever to be president? Probably a good case to be made, at least in the modern era.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?

He's not a political appointee, so I don't see how he could, absent some misconduct or incompetence charge, in which Fauci would be entitled to usual protections.

What would be the point anyway?

Trump can either act like a normal mature human being and help the transition, or he can further cement his historical reputation as a petulant, insecure narcissist by flailing around and throwing his toys out of the pram.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 09:00:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?
Do you think he should?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 07, 2020, 09:23:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

U ok hun?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?

A lot of people were voting against the Democrats not necessarily voting for Trump

Your basis for that is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:27:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 01:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 12:50:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?

A lot of people were voting against the Democrats not necessarily voting for Trump

They're f**king either deluded or need to take a good long look at themselves then.

This wasn't Bernie the socialist. This is a choice of a run-of-the-mill, centrist, don't-rock-the-boat moderate or a far right, bigoted, irrational, incompetent, narcissistic, sociopathic, lying man-child who cares primarily about himself and is so lacking in basic human decency that he would oversee a policy of tearing tiny kids out of their desperate parents arms to be shipped all around the country, not knowing when they'd be reunited.

Well don't take my word for it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-criticizes-democratic-party-says-people-think-they-care-more-about-policing-cultural-1545354%3famp=1

(LOL-and of course the WaPo has come out with a rebuttal)

So not voting for Tump just voting for the shite the Trump machine pumps out
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 04:53:23 PM
Trump was advertising a press conference by his democracy-denying cronies at the Four Seasons Total Landscaping centre in Philadelphia set for 4:30

The race was called at 4:29

Timing

Next door to the Four Seasons Total landscaping is a business called "Fantasy Island"

You can get all your gardening needs at Four Seasons Total Landscaping, such as spades, to dig holes

Trump already has all his holes dug, and they are very deep

Van Jones's reaction to the election call was visceral

Trump's presidency has done an immense amount of harm to so many people

This feels like a great release

I take it this still hasn't happened
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 07, 2020, 09:31:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?

A lot of people were voting against the Democrats not necessarily voting for Trump

Your basis for that is?

This does appear to be the case in quite a number of places. The vote didn't carry down the ballot. They'll be disappointed with their performance in the Senate races and have lost seats in the House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:32:58 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 07, 2020, 05:51:51 PM

Would be amazing to see a 2024 election where the Democrat vote was split by Kanye and a centrist Democrat

That would be amazing.
Amazing as in unbelievable.
Unbelievable as in not likely to happen.
Likely as in going
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:35:08 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 07, 2020, 08:12:02 PM
Not much social distancing in Washington DC  :o

No.

Masks are mitigant, not an excuse.

At least Biden didn't call them out on to the streets. Other politicians deal in that shite. President Biden rises above that sort of thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:36:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 07, 2020, 08:26:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 08:17:20 PM
And none at any of those rallies!!

Highest spikes ever in the US! Crazy people

They were also completely wrong. But its not justification for the current scenes.

Correct but the role of Biden and Trump are polar opposites in the issue. Trump was a liability to the nation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?

If he hates America and Americans he could probably do it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:48:16 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 07, 2020, 09:31:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Surely the old guard in the GOP will be (behind closed doors) happy that Trump Has lost this? Reshuffle and put in place an actual politician?

A lot of people were voting against the Democrats not necessarily voting for Trump

Your basis for that is?

This does appear to be the case in quite a number of places. The vote didn't carry down the ballot. They'll be disappointed with their performance in the Senate races and have lost seats in the House.

Whitey's point was that votes for Trump were not necessarily votes for Trump but against the Democrats. That is the presidential election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 10:11:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 07, 2020, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 04:53:23 PM
Trump was advertising a press conference by his democracy-denying cronies at the Four Seasons Total Landscaping centre in Philadelphia set for 4:30

The race was called at 4:29

Timing

Next door to the Four Seasons Total landscaping is a business called "Fantasy Island"

You can get all your gardening needs at Four Seasons Total Landscaping, such as spades, to dig holes

Trump already has all his holes dug, and they are very deep

Van Jones's reaction to the election call was visceral

Trump's presidency has done an immense amount of harm to so many people

This feels like a great release

I take it this still hasn't happened

Oh it happened!

Apparently the corrupt Dems managed to stuff 600K fake ballots into the picture in PA! ;D

Rudy will prove it in court next week, beginning Monday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 07, 2020, 11:12:02 PM
What's striking is the youth of the celebration and the huge spontaneous outburst.
It´s not for Joe Biden , though he played his part, it's for the defeat of Trump. And we see what mattered most  was content not policy.  For years from the  WSJ  ( White Supremacy Journal)  downwards , whilst ignoring the effect of the rise in inequality, we heard about how the government's  economic policy  was benefitting  growth/ wall street/business/ shares etc  and the president's  content was put down to -   well he's not a politician,  that just donald, he doesn't really mean it, In other words that racist/hate stuff did not matter  because policy was beneficial.
Now we see the effect of just how much that racist content mattered, the hatred, the narcissism, the callous support of the impact of white thugs with guns, a complete disdain for the  historical experience  of Black Africans and others  in the US and  just how all that  hate content  affected all people of colour. and others in solidarity..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 11:12:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?

He's not a political appointee, so I don't see how he could, absent some misconduct or incompetence charge, in which Fauci would be entitled to usual protections.

What would be the point anyway?

Trump can either act like a normal mature human being and help the transition, or he can further cement his historical reputation as a petulant, insecure narcissist by flailing around and throwing his toys out of the pram.
do you think Democrats helped with the transition of power ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:19:56 PM
Jesus hard to believe, but Guilianis press conference was more embarrassing that Donalds
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 11:12:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?

He's not a political appointee, so I don't see how he could, absent some misconduct or incompetence charge, in which Fauci would be entitled to usual protections.

What would be the point anyway?

Trump can either act like a normal mature human being and help the transition, or he can further cement his historical reputation as a petulant, insecure narcissist by flailing around and throwing his toys out of the pram.
do you think Democrats helped with the transition of power ?

Did Obama not invite Trump over the next day?

Do you have any evidence that they DIDN'T provide the standard cooperation and assistance to Trump's team?

From what I recall, much of Trump's team was hopelessly unorganized and uninterested in working on the transition.

Whereas Obama's team were very grateful to GW Bush for his cooperation in 2008.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:31:11 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:19:56 PM
Jesus hard to believe, but Guilianis interview was more embarrassing that Donalds

It's rather sad and pitiful watching Giuliani now when you think of 9/11 and his work prosecuting the mafia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 11:12:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?

He's not a political appointee, so I don't see how he could, absent some misconduct or incompetence charge, in which Fauci would be entitled to usual protections.

What would be the point anyway?

Trump can either act like a normal mature human being and help the transition, or he can further cement his historical reputation as a petulant, insecure narcissist by flailing around and throwing his toys out of the pram.
do you think Democrats helped with the transition of power ?

Did Obama not invite Trump over the next day?

Do you have any evidence that they DIDN'T provide the standard cooperation and assistance to Trump's team?

From what I recall, much of Trump's team was hopelessly unorganized and uninterested in working on the transition.

Whereas Obama's team were very grateful to GW Bush for his cooperation in 2008.
do you believe that ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 07, 2020, 11:36:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:31:11 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:19:56 PM
Jesus hard to believe, but Guilianis interview was more embarrassing that Donalds

It's rather sad and pitiful watching Giuliani now when you think of 9/11 and his work prosecuting the mafia.

the work he did in new york in the 70's and 80's was amazing but this is what he'll be remembered for, truly sad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 07, 2020, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 11:12:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?

He's not a political appointee, so I don't see how he could, absent some misconduct or incompetence charge, in which Fauci would be entitled to usual protections.

What would be the point anyway?

Trump can either act like a normal mature human being and help the transition, or he can further cement his historical reputation as a petulant, insecure narcissist by flailing around and throwing his toys out of the pram.
do you think Democrats helped with the transition of power ?

Did Obama not invite Trump over the next day?

Do you have any evidence that they DIDN'T provide the standard cooperation and assistance to Trump's team?

From what I recall, much of Trump's team was hopelessly unorganized and uninterested in working on the transition.

Whereas Obama's team were very grateful to GW Bush for his cooperation in 2008.
do you believe that ?

Who would, it's clearly all b/s  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:48:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 11:12:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?

He's not a political appointee, so I don't see how he could, absent some misconduct or incompetence charge, in which Fauci would be entitled to usual protections.

What would be the point anyway?

Trump can either act like a normal mature human being and help the transition, or he can further cement his historical reputation as a petulant, insecure narcissist by flailing around and throwing his toys out of the pram.
do you think Democrats helped with the transition of power ?

Did Obama not invite Trump over the next day?

Do you have any evidence that they DIDN'T provide the standard cooperation and assistance to Trump's team?

From what I recall, much of Trump's team was hopelessly unorganized and uninterested in working on the transition.

Whereas Obama's team were very grateful to GW Bush for his cooperation in 2008.
do you believe that ?

Believe what?

I made several statements.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:50:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:31:11 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:19:56 PM
Jesus hard to believe, but Guilianis interview was more embarrassing that Donalds

It's rather sad and pitiful watching Giuliani now when you think of 9/11 and his work prosecuting the mafia.
Aye it's weird. Watched that Mafia doc on Netflix with him. Comes across really well. The presser tonight almost seems like performance art lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:54:09 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:50:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:31:11 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:19:56 PM
Jesus hard to believe, but Guilianis interview was more embarrassing that Donalds

It's rather sad and pitiful watching Giuliani now when you think of 9/11 and his work prosecuting the mafia.
Aye it's weird. Watched that Mafia doc on Netflix with him. Comes across really well. The presser tonight almost seems like performance art lol

He's selling his soul for a post-WH career as a Trump hanger-on and far right celeb.

This whole lawsuit charade is not aimed at uncovering fraud. It's all about rabble rousing and Trump's ego.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:54:14 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 09:00:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?
Do you think he should?
Sorry Gmac, this skipped on to the next page quickly so you might have missed it. Should Trump sack him then ye think?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Boycey on November 07, 2020, 11:58:51 PM
I've not seen a GAA jersey at the celebration gatherings yet which is quite disappointing....

Only a matter of time surely before a Kerry or Mayo jersey is sighted  :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 12:14:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:54:09 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:50:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 11:31:11 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:19:56 PM
Jesus hard to believe, but Guilianis interview was more embarrassing that Donalds

It's rather sad and pitiful watching Giuliani now when you think of 9/11 and his work prosecuting the mafia.
Aye it's weird. Watched that Mafia doc on Netflix with him. Comes across really well. The presser tonight almost seems like performance art lol

He's selling his soul for a post-WH career as a Trump hanger-on and far right celeb.

This whole lawsuit charade is not aimed at uncovering fraud. It's all about rabble rousing and Trump's ego.
Yeah pure obvious. Omarosas insights have been excellent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2020, 12:24:35 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:54:14 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 09:00:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?
Do you think he should?
Sorry Gmac, this skipped on to the next page quickly so you might have missed it. Should Trump sack him then ye think?
i think he would if he could , I don't think fauci has excelled during the pandemic but I don't think he should fire him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 01:07:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2020, 12:24:35 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:54:14 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 09:00:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?
Do you think he should?
Sorry Gmac, this skipped on to the next page quickly so you might have missed it. Should Trump sack him then ye think?
i think he would if he could , I don't think fauci has excelled during the pandemic but I don't think he should fire him .
Fair enough. I dont know how he could do any better given the hand he was dealt with Trump refusing to listen to any advice, and then going on solo runs with bat shit crazy ideas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 08, 2020, 01:12:51 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmPGv9hU4AEUH22?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 01:22:15 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 08, 2020, 01:12:51 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmPGv9hU4AEUH22?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Lol spot on!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 01:24:08 AM
Hopefully he says there won't be a border between Tyrone and Monaghan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2020, 01:40:25 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 01:24:08 AM
Hopefully he says there won't be a border between Tyrone and Monaghan.

There should just be a border around Tyrone itself!!

Harris has been impressive here will be interesting to see how Biden performs I'm sure it's been a long week and to be fair to him he's old as balls. It's back to civility and a bit of respect at the very least who knows what he will be able to accomplish legislatively but a steady hand is what's needed for the next 4 years!!

Jesus he's running!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 01:48:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 08, 2020, 01:40:25 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 01:24:08 AM
Hopefully he says there won't be a border between Tyrone and Monaghan.

There should just be a border around Tyrone itself!!

"Build the wall! Build the wall! Build the wall!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 01:50:21 AM
Christ listening to this, Trump couldnt lace Bidens boots. Shouldn't have been even close!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 08, 2020, 01:51:17 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 01:50:21 AM
Christ listening to this, Trump couldnt lace Bidens boots. Shouldn't have been even close!
No Sleepy Joe tonight!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on November 08, 2020, 01:52:07 AM
He has the look and sound of a pure and utter unrelenting and passionate leader. Great to see and just what is needed. Good luck to him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on November 08, 2020, 01:56:55 AM
Refreshing to see someone that looks and sounds the part. Articulate and intelligent statements throughout that victory speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 01:59:44 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on November 08, 2020, 01:52:07 AM
He has the look and sound of a pure and utter unrelenting and passionate leader. Great to see and just what is needed. Good luck to him!
I'm always suspicious of politicians, but he does seem to genuinely care. Read a great article on Politico there about the difference between him and Obama. Will have a look and post it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 02:00:22 AM
I see no signs of dementia. He sounds very presidential.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2020, 02:00:57 AM
He nailed that speech hopefully it all leads to some real change!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 02:01:24 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 01:59:44 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on November 08, 2020, 01:52:07 AM
He has the look and sound of a pure and utter unrelenting and passionate leader. Great to see and just what is needed. Good luck to him!
I'm always suspicious of politicians, but he does seem to genuinely care. Read a great article on Politico there about the difference between him and Obama. Will have a look and post it.
There we go

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/14/obama-biden-relationship-393570
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on November 08, 2020, 02:03:09 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 01:59:44 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on November 08, 2020, 01:52:07 AM
He has the look and sound of a pure and utter unrelenting and passionate leader. Great to see and just what is needed. Good luck to him!
I'm always suspicious of politicians, but he does seem to genuinely care. Read a great article on Politico there about the difference between him and Obama. Will have a look and post it.
Yes i agree, you can really see it. Trump couldnt lace his boots.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 02:05:42 AM
Hes showing a real genuine intention to reach across the aisle. Some may say this is down to the fact he will be facing a republican Senate and will require their cooperation to legislate, but its still to be applauded.
At the very least hes reaching outside his base, something which Trump did not do and in my opinion cost him a second term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2020, 02:11:20 AM
Yes. Remember "American Carnage"? :o

Hopefully McConnell will at least try to find some common ground.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 02:21:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 02:05:42 AM
Hes showing a real genuine intention to reach across the aisle. Some may say this is down to the fact he will be facing a republican Senate and will require their cooperation to legislate, but its still to be applauded.
At the very least hes reaching outside his base, something which Trump did not do and in my opinion cost him a second term.
Absolutely. It would seem that this has been a trademark of his political career. The snippet below from the article I posted tells alot. Always thought that in work, people happy to play the blame game, shovelling shit up hill getting nothing done.

Even with Biden as the Democratic nominee, Republican leadership and their aides can't help but feel more animosity toward Obama than Biden. In negotiations, Biden asked them what they could sell to their caucus while Obama would trenchantly but unproductively lecture leadership about why their caucus' worldview was wrong, the aides said.

"Frankly, I came to dread those Oval Office meetings because they were lost time," said one such former aide. "Those were hours of your life you were never getting back."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 02:38:13 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 02:21:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 02:05:42 AM
Hes showing a real genuine intention to reach across the aisle. Some may say this is down to the fact he will be facing a republican Senate and will require their cooperation to legislate, but its still to be applauded.
At the very least hes reaching outside his base, something which Trump did not do and in my opinion cost him a second term.
Absolutely. It would seem that this has been a trademark of his political career. The snippet below from the article I posted tells alot. Always thought that in work, people happy to play the blame game, shovelling shit up hill getting nothing done.

Even with Biden as the Democratic nominee, Republican leadership and their aides can't help but feel more animosity toward Obama than Biden. In negotiations, Biden asked them what they could sell to their caucus while Obama would trenchantly but unproductively lecture leadership about why their caucus' worldview was wrong, the aides said.

"Frankly, I came to dread those Oval Office meetings because they were lost time," said one such former aide. "Those were hours of your life you were never getting back."

Ideally, its what america and by extent the whole western world needs right now. A centrist who can bring both sides together in peace and harmony and someone who will encourage people to believe that those from the other side are not the enemy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 08, 2020, 02:44:44 AM
Two good speeches. Harris is a straight up star.

Biden needs a catchier line to finish on than "May God protect our troops"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 08, 2020, 02:54:08 AM
It's a line that never gets old here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 08, 2020, 02:55:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2020, 02:11:20 AM
Yes. Remember "American Carnage"? :o



Yes. Who knew it was a prediction?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 03:00:25 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 08, 2020, 02:54:08 AM
It's a line that never gets old here.

Bible and troops. Centrist joe gonna centrist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2020, 02:44:44 AM
Two good speeches. Harris is a straight up star.

Biden needs a catchier line to finish on than "May God protect our troops"
I really like Harris, a real sharp cookie. But does her voice not sound a bit whiney/nasally? I know thats a petty criticism, just wondering is it just me?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2020, 04:33:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 02:05:42 AM
Hes showing a real genuine intention to reach across the aisle. Some may say this is down to the fact he will be facing a republican Senate and will require their cooperation to legislate, but its still to be applauded.
At the very least hes reaching outside his base, something which Trump did not do and in my opinion cost him a second term.
winning is a great deodorant.
2 years and joe is gone mark my words hello president Kamala , hello president Ron 2024
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 08, 2020, 06:25:33 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2020, 02:44:44 AM
Two good speeches. Harris is a straight up star.

Biden needs a catchier line to finish on than "May God protect our troops"
I really like Harris, a real sharp cookie. But does her voice not sound a bit whiney/nasally? I know thats a petty criticism, just wondering is it just me?

It's the California in her, innit?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 08, 2020, 08:03:54 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 11:12:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?

He's not a political appointee, so I don't see how he could, absent some misconduct or incompetence charge, in which Fauci would be entitled to usual protections.

What would be the point anyway?

Trump can either act like a normal mature human being and help the transition, or he can further cement his historical reputation as a petulant, insecure narcissist by flailing around and throwing his toys out of the pram.
do you think Democrats helped with the transition of power ?

The role of the Democrats is to assemble a team to hit the ground running. The thing Trump failed to do. So far the Democrats are found their bit.

I'm not criticising the Republicans in terms of the detailed handover. It's too early to do that. Obviously in terms of tone setting the lead that Trump is setting on this issue is the worst America has ever seen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 08, 2020, 08:08:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2020, 12:24:35 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 11:54:14 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 07, 2020, 09:00:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 07, 2020, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
At least they're wearing masks and it's outdoors, but yeah, not the wisest at the moment, especially the one in LaFayette Park.

It is hard not to smile though at the thought of the Trumps and their lackies sitting inside having to listen and look at them though! :)
only Trump rallies spread Covid , blm protests and mass looting don't . Enjoy

Has anyone here condoned it?

At least they're considerate and concerned enough to wear the masks, unlike the Trump rallies.
can trump still fire fauci ?
Do you think he should?
Sorry Gmac, this skipped on to the next page quickly so you might have missed it. Should Trump sack him then ye think?
i think he would if he could , I don't think fauci has excelled during the pandemic but I don't think he should fire him .

What did he get wrong?

I'm not defending him, just want to know what a a keen observer like yourself thinks about the detail of his performance
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 08, 2020, 10:42:20 AM
Does Guiliani holding at press conference at the Four Seasons Landscapes instead of the Four Seasons Hotel not bring back found memories of another infamous fake hotel booking...? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 10:49:04 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2020, 02:44:44 AM
Two good speeches. Harris is a straight up star.

Biden needs a catchier line to finish on than "May God protect our troops"
I really like Harris, a real sharp cookie. But does her voice not sound a bit whiney/nasally? I know thats a petty criticism, just wondering is it just me?
Harris is going to get the same treatment Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton got from the flat earthers, except far worse

Expect all the same birther conspiracies, she'll be branded as a fake black while simultaneously being painted as a radical communist Black Panther, and a prostitute - none of it has to make sense

Her voice and manner will be slaughtered, she will be painted as "deeply divisive" and "shrill"

"Divisive" is white supremacist code for "black"

"Shrill" is code for "woman"

It's moot whether Trumpism has gone away or not because that will depend on what Trump does and what happens to him but what has definitely not gone away and will only increase is totally irrational, insane white supremacist anger against people of colour, simply for being people of colour

There are tens of millions of people in America who have the same opinions Eugene TerreBlanche had



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 10:50:14 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 08, 2020, 10:42:20 AM
Does Guiliani holding at press conference at the Four Seasons Landscapes instead of the Four Seasons Hotel not bring back found memories of another infamous fake hotel booking...?
Giuliani definitely had fear on his face yesterday
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 11:02:02 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 02:38:13 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 02:21:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2020, 02:05:42 AM
Hes showing a real genuine intention to reach across the aisle. Some may say this is down to the fact he will be facing a republican Senate and will require their cooperation to legislate, but its still to be applauded.
At the very least hes reaching outside his base, something which Trump did not do and in my opinion cost him a second term.
Absolutely. It would seem that this has been a trademark of his political career. The snippet below from the article I posted tells alot. Always thought that in work, people happy to play the blame game, shovelling shit up hill getting nothing done.

Even with Biden as the Democratic nominee, Republican leadership and their aides can't help but feel more animosity toward Obama than Biden. In negotiations, Biden asked them what they could sell to their caucus while Obama would trenchantly but unproductively lecture leadership about why their caucus' worldview was wrong, the aides said.

"Frankly, I came to dread those Oval Office meetings because they were lost time," said one such former aide. "Those were hours of your life you were never getting back."

Ideally, its what america and by extent the whole western world needs right now. A centrist who can bring both sides together in peace and harmony and someone who will encourage people to believe that those from the other side are not the enemy.

Obama was a milquetoast centrist - he spent eight years trying to reach out to the other side, look how they reacted - with total political war against him

It was said four years ago that the reason Trump got in was because of the pain his voters were feeling because years of milquetoast centrism and right-wing economics had allowed America to rot

That another four years of milquetoast centrism under Clinton offered nothing to them

Yet now we're supposed to believe that the prescription is four years of milquetoast centrism?

That is a claim that the economic pain many of Trump's supporters were feeling in 2016 (and indeed now) was a lie - but it wasn't a lie, it was real

The prescription to solve that isn't milquetoast centrism, the prescription is a radical, progressive, transformative policy agenda which will actually help to improve people's lot

Scandinavia for America, in other words

Scandinavia for America won't happen, which is why the threat will be ever present over Biden's term that the same people that need that radical, progressive policy agenda will once again turn to something far worse than milquetoast centrism in 2024 - something like Somalia for America







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2020, 11:03:59 AM
Harris is a neoliberal

https://www.ft.com/content/6283acf4-9b50-38fd-bea2-210c79ad6dca

One of the best things about Kamala Harris is that she hits to a lot of fields — she's a strong and articulate African American prosecutor, a terrific speaker, and a veteran politico who can duke it out with the best of them. She's a great campaign fundraiser (too great, some progressives would say), and is beloved of many rich Democrats in the business wing of the party. But she has also been aggressive in pushing for things like healthcare reform and antitrust action in the health sector in particular. Harris is smart enough to know the right policy choices that Democrats need to make right now (which centre around fighting inequality, strengthening safety nets, improving education and building some kind of New Deal-style programme that puts people to work and transitions the economy to something cleaner, greener and more digital). But she has also been smart enough to stay in the political game without having the kind of grassroots support that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders do. That means she has had to make uncomfortable compromises. She has taken campaign money from the prison industrial complex; not a good look in the midst of the Black Lives Matter and "defund the police" issues. She has gone light on certain financiers like Steve Mnuchin, whose bank she failed to prosecute in the wake of the financial crisis. She's close to Big Tech, even as the Democrat-led House Judiciary committee on antitrust has just come out with a tough new report calling Amazon, Google and Facebook the biggest competitive threat since the railroad barons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 11:38:00 AM
Former Obama press secretary Tommy Vietor weighs in in reply to Boris Johnson's Twitter message of congratulations to Biden and Harris

Ouch

https://twitter.com/TVietor08/status/1325137653851828230

This shapeshifting creep weighs in. We will never forget your racist comments about Obama and slavish devotion to Trump but neat Instagram graphic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: smelmoth on November 08, 2020, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 10:49:04 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2020, 02:44:44 AM
Two good speeches. Harris is a straight up star.

Biden needs a catchier line to finish on than "May God protect our troops"
I really like Harris, a real sharp cookie. But does her voice not sound a bit whiney/nasally? I know thats a petty criticism, just wondering is it just me?
Harris is going to get the same treatment Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton got from the flat earthers, except far worse

Expect all the same birther conspiracies, she'll be branded as a fake black while simultaneously being painted as a radical communist Black Panther, and a prostitute - none of it has to make sense

Her voice and manner will be slaughtered, she will be painted as "deeply divisive" and "shrill"

"Divisive" is white supremacist code for "black"

"Shrill" is code for "woman"

It's moot whether Trumpism has gone away or not because that will depend on what Trump does and what happens to him but what has definitely not gone away and will only increase is totally irrational, insane white supremacist anger against people of colour, simply for being people of colour

There are tens of millions of people in America who have the same opinions Eugene TerreBlanche had

I think your call on Shrill and Divisive is spot on.

I think that much of what I would want a Democrat president to achieve will have to take a back seat for the first 2 years. Regrettable but true.

Right now Biden has to deal with COVID and the divided nature of the nation. Trump has personally lead those 2 problems to Biden's terrible starting position. He needs to de-Trump America. The quicker he gets that done the quicker a progressive programme can delivered. Mid term elections could help.

Unfortunately America remains one of those places where "progressive" can have negative connotations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 08, 2020, 01:19:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 11:38:00 AM
Former Obama press secretary Tommy Vietor weighs in in reply to Boris Johnson's Twitter message of congratulations to Biden and Harris

Ouch

https://twitter.com/TVietor08/status/1325137653851828230

This shapeshifting creep weighs in. We will never forget your racist comments about Obama and slavish devotion to Trump but neat Instagram graphic.

I listen to Vietor a couple of times a week on the Pod Save America podcast with s couple of other format Obama staffers. Will be interesting to see if he mentions BoJo tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2020, 01:24:57 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 08, 2020, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 10:49:04 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2020, 02:44:44 AM
Two good speeches. Harris is a straight up star.

Biden needs a catchier line to finish on than "May God protect our troops"
I really like Harris, a real sharp cookie. But does her voice not sound a bit whiney/nasally? I know thats a petty criticism, just wondering is it just me?
Harris is going to get the same treatment Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton got from the flat earthers, except far worse

Expect all the same birther conspiracies, she'll be branded as a fake black while simultaneously being painted as a radical communist Black Panther, and a prostitute - none of it has to make sense

Her voice and manner will be slaughtered, she will be painted as "deeply divisive" and "shrill"

"Divisive" is white supremacist code for "black"

"Shrill" is code for "woman"

It's moot whether Trumpism has gone away or not because that will depend on what Trump does and what happens to him but what has definitely not gone away and will only increase is totally irrational, insane white supremacist anger against people of colour, simply for being people of colour

There are tens of millions of people in America who have the same opinions Eugene TerreBlanche had

I think your call on Shrill and Divisive is spot on.

I think that much of what I would want a Democrat president to achieve will have to take a back seat for the first 2 years. Regrettable but true.

Right now Biden has to deal with COVID and the divided nature of the nation. Trump has personally lead those 2 problems to Biden's terrible starting position. He needs to de-Trump America. The quicker he gets that done the quicker a progressive programme can delivered. Mid term elections could help.

Unfortunately America remains one of those places where "progressive" can have negative connotations

What exactly would you like him to achieve?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: smelmoth on November 08, 2020, 01:34:42 PM
Whitey

I would like to see
- a clear Nationwide definition of who is allowed to vote
- a clear nationwide rule on when, if ever the right to vote can be removed
- a clear nationwide rule on when, if ever the right to vote can be restored.
- a clear nationwide rule on how elections are run to include full use of modern technology
- an all party discussion on where appetitive lies for Court reform i.e. what age a judge retires at, when a judge can or cannot be appointed.
- clear nationwide standards of policing
- gun law reform.
- living wages
- candidate's interests Disclosures
- candidate's tax disclosures
- possibly health disclosures
- rules on candidate debates and interviews
- And the biggie - healthcare funding
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2020, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 08, 2020, 01:34:42 PM
Whitey

I would like to see
- a clear Nationwide definition of who is allowed to vote
- a clear nationwide rule on when, if ever the right to vote can be removed
- a clear nationwide rule on when, if ever the right to vote can be restored.
- a clear nationwide rule on how elections are run to include full use of modern technology
- an all party discussion on where appetitive lies for Court reform i.e. what age a judge retires at, when a judge can or cannot be appointed.
- clear nationwide standards of policing
- gun law reform.
- living wages
- candidate's interests Disclosures
- candidate's tax disclosures
- possibly health disclosures
- rules on candidate debates and interviews
- And the biggie - healthcare funding

My understanding is that the First four won't happen because there are 50 states each with their own set of rules. Might get a Supreme Court ruling but I think they tend to avoid these types of issues

All the rest are quite reasonable and should be doable if people put their differences aside
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2020, 01:56:32 PM
I'll try:

Act like a grown-up and a normal decent human being.
Do not indulge or spread conspiracy theories.
Do not embrace racists, misogynists and strongmen and the rhetoric and ideologies they espouse, especially in your own administration.
Rebuild ties with other democratic countries.
Do not demonize or dehumanize immigrants, Muslims, LGBTQ, political opponents.
Reunite with their families all of those kids Trump, Stephen Miller and Jeff Sessions ripped out of their parents arms without a second thought and shipped across the country.
Come up with a humane and sensible solution for illegal immigrants, including Dreamers.
Listen to scientists and professionals who know what they're talking about, whether its COVID, or vaccines or climate change or whatever.
Get the US back in the Paris Agreement and reverse Trump's destructive environmental policies, whether its logging the Tongass, drilling and mining in national parks and ANWR, abolishing fuel and water standards, stripping protections from wildlife, promoting fossil fuels at the expense of renewables etc.
Get an infrastructure programme up and running; f**k knows its overdue with new bridges, tunnels, rail and roads needed everywhere. It will create plenty of jobs and pay for itself multiple times over.
Lead and act as a voice of reason when it comes to policing and minorities. Promote sensible police reform as appropriate. Do not try to foment violence to your own ends like Trump did.
Try to work with the Senate if McConnell allows. If he refuses point blank, even on bipartisan issues such as infrastructure or criminal justice reform or healthcare, then do what you can with executive orders.
If the Supreme Court throw out Obamacare next week, get to work on a solution. Republicans are happy to see people go without as long as they can use this issue as a political football. Real lives are at stake, so do the right thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 08, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
I didn't know that Obama had removed Churchill's bust from the Oval office. If  the bust was still gathering dust in some cupboard and  Joe was up to to the task, take a sledgehammer to it, smash it into smithereeens and send it in a diplomatic bag to Johnson. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
Reasonable and sensible gun control (and severe penalties for straw buyers etc)

Free public transport For low income residents

UBI (with conditions)

Multi Trillion investment in inner cities (administered by professionals without political affiliations otherwise it will become a slush fund)

Policing reform-investment in non lethal technologies, civilian ride alongside, hiring of minority officers

Imprisonment only be used as a last resort-put non violent offenders  to work in their communities

Massive investment in health care programs to address obesity, diabetes, heart disease-hire minorities and veterans. It would pay for itself in 5 years

Ban tobacco

Rule put in place as to how soon to an election a, SJC can be appointed

Current tax return requirement for ALL seeking public office

Path to citizenship for dreamers and non criminal undocumented coupled with stringent border and immigration enforcement




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 02:21:32 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 08, 2020, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 10:49:04 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 08, 2020, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2020, 02:44:44 AM
Two good speeches. Harris is a straight up star.

Biden needs a catchier line to finish on than "May God protect our troops"
I really like Harris, a real sharp cookie. But does her voice not sound a bit whiney/nasally? I know thats a petty criticism, just wondering is it just me?
Harris is going to get the same treatment Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton got from the flat earthers, except far worse

Expect all the same birther conspiracies, she'll be branded as a fake black while simultaneously being painted as a radical communist Black Panther, and a prostitute - none of it has to make sense

Her voice and manner will be slaughtered, she will be painted as "deeply divisive" and "shrill"

"Divisive" is white supremacist code for "black"

"Shrill" is code for "woman"

It's moot whether Trumpism has gone away or not because that will depend on what Trump does and what happens to him but what has definitely not gone away and will only increase is totally irrational, insane white supremacist anger against people of colour, simply for being people of colour

There are tens of millions of people in America who have the same opinions Eugene TerreBlanche had

I think your call on Shrill and Divisive is spot on.

I think that much of what I would want a Democrat president to achieve will have to take a back seat for the first 2 years. Regrettable but true.

Right now Biden has to deal with COVID and the divided nature of the nation. Trump has personally lead those 2 problems to Biden's terrible starting position. He needs to de-Trump America. The quicker he gets that done the quicker a progressive programme can delivered. Mid term elections could help.

Unfortunately America remains one of those places where "progressive" can have negative connotations

Right wingers have a totally paranoid obsession with certain words

Socialism, communism, progressive, radical etc.

They proclaim themselves as lovers of "freedom", "liberty" and as having "common sense"

The is a total inversion of reality

Right wingers hate real freedom, liberty and common sense

They are radical, radical regressives

In reality, people like AOC, Bernie Sanders, Katie Porter, and the progressive movement, the Black Lives Matter protestors, the climate protestors - these are the people who love real freedom, real liberty and real common sense

What is the ability to live your life as you want without being demonised simply because of your skin colour or gender or sexuality? It is real freedom

Right wingers are against that

What is the freedom to vote,
The freedom to marry who you want
The freedom to have control over your own body
The freedom to not have to worry about where your next paycheque is coming from if you fall ill
The freedom to not have to worry about how you can pay for healthcare if you fall ill
The freedom to breathe clean air and drink clean water
The freedom of minorities to not have to worry about being arrested and permanently condemned to being a member of an undercaste simply because of who they are
The freedom to have security in terms of employment
The freedom to have security if you do lose your job
The freedom to have security in terms of retirement

That is real freedom and it is only the progressive movement who are in favour of real freedom

The Republican party and right wingers despise freedom

The type of "freedom" Republicans like is the "freedom" of the 0.1% to create a plutocracy, the "freedom" of police to murder people with impunity, the "freedom" to utter hate speech, the "freedom" of white supremacists to terrorise, the "freedom" to destroy the natural environment and the future of the human species

Republican "freedom" = tyranny, radical tyranny

It's time the progressive movement took the "positive" buzzwords of the right wing in America and started using them for themselves - because in reality all those words apply to the progressive movement, and very definitely don't apply to Republicans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on November 08, 2020, 03:17:30 PM
Best post on here for manys a day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 08, 2020, 03:23:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
Reasonable and sensible gun control (and severe penalties for straw buyers etc)

Free public transport For low income residents

UBI (with conditions)

Multi Trillion investment in inner cities (administered by professionals without political affiliations otherwise it will become a slush fund)

Policing reform-investment in non lethal technologies, civilian ride alongside, hiring of minority officers

Imprisonment only be used as a last resort-put non violent offenders  to work in their communities

Massive investment in health care programs to address obesity, diabetes, heart disease-hire minorities and veterans. It would pay for itself in 5 years

Ban tobacco

Rule put in place as to how soon to an election a, SJC can be appointed

Current tax return requirement for ALL seeking public office

Path to citizenship for dreamers and non criminal undocumented coupled with stringent border and immigration enforcement

Jesus Whitey, you're practically a socialist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 03:27:31 PM
It would be an interesting experiment to get people to list 10 Americans who exemplified a real belief in freedom and liberty



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 08, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 08, 2020, 03:23:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
Reasonable and sensible gun control (and severe penalties for straw buyers etc)

Free public transport For low income residents

UBI (with conditions)

Multi Trillion investment in inner cities (administered by professionals without political affiliations otherwise it will become a slush fund)

Policing reform-investment in non lethal technologies, civilian ride alongside, hiring of minority officers

Imprisonment only be used as a last resort-put non violent offenders  to work in their communities

Massive investment in health care programs to address obesity, diabetes, heart disease-hire minorities and veterans. It would pay for itself in 5 years

Ban tobacco

Rule put in place as to how soon to an election a, SJC can be appointed

Current tax return requirement for ALL seeking public office

Path to citizenship for dreamers and non criminal undocumented coupled with stringent border and immigration enforcement

Jesus Whitey, you're practically a socialist.

Was about to say, whitey potentially the best wind up merchant/debate starter the board has seen in a while if they're his genuine beliefs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 08, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 08, 2020, 03:23:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
Reasonable and sensible gun control (and severe penalties for straw buyers etc)

Free public transport For low income residents

UBI (with conditions)

Multi Trillion investment in inner cities (administered by professionals without political affiliations otherwise it will become a slush fund)

Policing reform-investment in non lethal technologies, civilian ride alongside, hiring of minority officers

Imprisonment only be used as a last resort-put non violent offenders  to work in their communities

Massive investment in health care programs to address obesity, diabetes, heart disease-hire minorities and veterans. It would pay for itself in 5 years

Ban tobacco

Rule put in place as to how soon to an election a, SJC can be appointed

Current tax return requirement for ALL seeking public office

Path to citizenship for dreamers and non criminal undocumented coupled with stringent border and immigration enforcement

Jesus Whitey, you're practically a socialist.

Was about to say, whitey potentially the best wind up merchant/debate starter the board has seen in a while if they're his genuine beliefs.

Absolutely not.....I'm a fiscal conservative.....I believe every single thing I posted up there.

That's why I laugh at some people claiming I'm some crazy right winger....nothing could be further from the truth.  I'll confess that I'm right of center when it comes to fiscal and law enforcement issues.

There's plenty of money over here to give everyone a fair shake. And by everyone, I mean people who want to work, obey the law as best they can and raise their families

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 08, 2020, 06:03:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 08, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 08, 2020, 03:23:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
Reasonable and sensible gun control (and severe penalties for straw buyers etc)

Free public transport For low income residents

UBI (with conditions)

Multi Trillion investment in inner cities (administered by professionals without political affiliations otherwise it will become a slush fund)

Policing reform-investment in non lethal technologies, civilian ride alongside, hiring of minority officers

Imprisonment only be used as a last resort-put non violent offenders  to work in their communities

Massive investment in health care programs to address obesity, diabetes, heart disease-hire minorities and veterans. It would pay for itself in 5 years

Ban tobacco

Rule put in place as to how soon to an election a, SJC can be appointed

Current tax return requirement for ALL seeking public office

Path to citizenship for dreamers and non criminal undocumented coupled with stringent border and immigration enforcement

Jesus Whitey, you're practically a socialist.

Was about to say, whitey potentially the best wind up merchant/debate starter the board has seen in a while if they're his genuine beliefs.

Absolutely not.....I'm a fiscal conservative.....I believe every single thing I posted up there.

That's why I laugh at some people claiming I'm some crazy right winger....nothing could be further from the truth.  I'll confess that I'm right of center when it comes to fiscal and law enforcement issues.

There's plenty of money over here to give everyone a fair shake. And by everyone, I mean people who want to work, obey the law as best they can and raise their families

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

What about subsidising the life of someone who isn't a f**k up?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 08, 2020, 06:38:13 PM
Hopefully it's the end of an era when elected officials including the President can function unaccountably as a dangerous demagogue spreading blatant support for racist, white nationalists, white supremacists as well as  spouting xenophobia. 'The racist tweet was just passing through my account, I didn't read it'   is no defense for a pleb never mind the president for that matter.

That when evaluating the performance  of such an elected official, the evidence of  blatant racism, demagoguery and xenophobia is not reduced to the negative value of a misplaced apostrophe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both

Your last sentence makes no sense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both

Your last sentence makes no sense.
If that's the best critique of the post you have you're fairly scraping the barrel

Clearly touched a nerve and it wasn't even addressed at you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both

Your last sentence makes no sense.
If that's the best critique of the post you have you're fairly scraping the barrel

Clearly touched a nerve and it wasn't even addressed at you

No it's a reflection of your intelligence that you can't form coherent sentences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:47:38 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both

Your last sentence makes no sense.
If that's the best critique of the post you have you're fairly scraping the barrel

Clearly touched a nerve and it wasn't even addressed at you

No it's a reflection of your intelligence that you can't form coherent sentences.
Aye, it did touch a nerve
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 08:07:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:47:38 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both

Your last sentence makes no sense.
If that's the best critique of the post you have you're fairly scraping the barrel

Clearly touched a nerve and it wasn't even addressed at you

No it's a reflection of your intelligence that you can't form coherent sentences.
Aye, it did touch a nerve

Over 70 million voted for trump and the Republicans, that's a serious number, whether you like them or policies or not they have a serious mandate.

I wouldn't have been a fan of Trump, either before or after this nightmare, but to go around and basically calling everyone facist's or whatever you've called them is wrong, you don't even live there so at first hand don't actually understand it.

I truly believe this vote was anyone but Trump, had the Republican Party anyone decent they'd have won. A bit like anyone but Hilary the last time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 08:30:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 08:07:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:47:38 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both

Your last sentence makes no sense.
If that's the best critique of the post you have you're fairly scraping the barrel

Clearly touched a nerve and it wasn't even addressed at you

No it's a reflection of your intelligence that you can't form coherent sentences.
Aye, it did touch a nerve

Over 70 million voted for trump and the Republicans, that's a serious number, whether you like them or policies or not they have a serious mandate.

I wouldn't have been a fan of Trump, either before or after this nightmare, but to go around and basically calling everyone facist's or whatever you've called them is wrong, you don't even live there so at first hand don't actually understand it.

I truly believe this vote was anyone but Trump, had the Republican Party anyone decent they'd have won. A bit like anyone but Hilary the last time
I do understand fascism and Republicans and Donald Trump are certainly fascist

Republicans are fascist because they are now wholly subservient to Trumpist fascism, they've gone along with it completely

There isn't really much to understand about Trump because he's a very uncomplex individual, he's entirely predictable

The reasons that people vote for fascists aren't that complex either but they are very interesting

Sadly the truth is that in times of economic pain, anger and a mass propaganda environment which directs that anger away from where it deserves to be aimed and onto an innocent "other", fascism becomes very popular indeed

The reasons people flocked to Adolf Hitler are the same reasons people idolise Trump

Any criticism of my line of argument that I've met on this forum has been typically cloaked in the stifling political correctness of the right and fake victimhood

Ultimately what Trumpist fascism is all about is political correctness - it is the ultimate extremist political correctness

It brooks no argument, it refuses challenge, it creates a fantasy world of make believe, and cocoons itself within that, to save itself from being challenged

As soon as it has to debate on objective facts and reason, it is finished - that's why it never debates on objective facts and reason

It peddles simplistic, easy, context-free false answers, and draws people into the fascist echo chamber, from which it is very difficult to ever escape - those inside the echo chamber retreat into safe spaces of the mind

When people really do tell it like is about what Trumpist fascism is, those who believe in it claim fake victimhood as a reflex action, because they are offended that their views have even been challenged

But a person cannot be a victim when stupid opinions they hold are being exposed as stupid

So Trumpist fascism is both extreme bullying and extreme cowardice

Bullying is of course a form of cowardice, so everything about Trumpist fascism amounts to cowardice

The "intellectual" environment in which elite American right-wingers are produced is incredibly shallow

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 08, 2020, 08:39:38 PM
70 million doesn't mean 70million for Trump.   The sole republican candidate could have been David Dukes and he'd be guaranteed 55m  - 60m of the vote.

Nixon in 1972  got 60% of the vote and that with the poxy stain of Vietnam war /protests, Laos, Kent State, Jackson State on his record.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 08:50:11 PM
Another giveaway of somebody who is way down the rabbit hole is constant projection

Poster "whitey" on this forum is a good example of this, with his regular line "believe whatever you want to believe"

That's exactly what he does and he has a serious cognitive dissonance - an internal denial and delusion in other words - about what he is writing

He does know, in one sense, that he generally only believes what he wants to believe, instead of reality, because reality does not accord with his prejudices

But it would be too challenging, too difficult for him, to think in a manner which does not align with his prejudices

So instead he has decided to retreat into having a simplistic, stagnant, fetid view of the world which aligns only with his prejudices - and nothing can permeate that cocoon - his feelings defeat facts

And a weapon to attack others and protect that cocoon is projection

The thing is that the rabbit hole is so deep, that he likely has suckered himself into genuinely believing the shit he writes - that's an outcome of sunk costs, emotional investment

While simultaneously also knowing that it's bullshit





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 08, 2020, 08:39:38 PM
70 million doesn't mean 70million for Trump.   The sole republican candidate could have been David Dukes and he'd be guaranteed 55m  - 60m of the vote.

Nixon in 1972  got 60% of the vote and that with the poxy stain of Vietnam war /protests, Laos, Kent State, Jackson State on his record.
I think the 70 million figure is mainly a Trump vote rather than a Republican vote

The two heavily overlap obviously, ie. in that, had they run a traffic cone, a wheelie bin or a literal turd sandwich as the candidate, it would probably still have got 59-60 million votes, but I don't think a bog standard Republican crazy like Pence could have turned out 70 million

Why? Because Pence is incredibly boring in terms of personality, whereas Trump is a magnetic figure, whether you love him or hate him

America is so into its celebrity culture that it was ripe for a celebrity turned demagogue

But it turns out there are also enough people to defeat that

Democratic presidential candidates have won 7 of the last 8 popular votes

There is a clear majority who stand against the Republican party

Texas is not far away from a tipping point, Puerto Rico and DC are not far away from statehood

The Republican candidate in this election, Trump, may be about to destroy the Republican party from within as revenge if the party does not stand with him in his efforts to annul the democratic vote of the American people

If the Republican party does stand with Trump in his illegitimate efforts to stay in power, they will have to live with the legacy that they were the party that wanted to abolish American democracy

This threat from Trump applies too to the right-wing industrial bullshit complex, most obviously exemplified by the split within Fox News where the "news" people - Brett Baier, Chris Wallace etc., see reality, whereas the demagogue wing, made up by Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Lou Dobbs, don't

Trump has Fox in a bind too

All these are existential problems because it's unlikely that Trump will just disappear politically, although at the same time, I wouldn't be that surprised if he was dead within a year or two
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2020, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 08, 2020, 06:03:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 08, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 08, 2020, 03:23:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
Reasonable and sensible gun control (and severe penalties for straw buyers etc)

Free public transport For low income residents

UBI (with conditions)

Multi Trillion investment in inner cities (administered by professionals without political affiliations otherwise it will become a slush fund)

Policing reform-investment in non lethal technologies, civilian ride alongside, hiring of minority officers

Imprisonment only be used as a last resort-put non violent offenders  to work in their communities

Massive investment in health care programs to address obesity, diabetes, heart disease-hire minorities and veterans. It would pay for itself in 5 years

Ban tobacco

Rule put in place as to how soon to an election a, SJC can be appointed

Current tax return requirement for ALL seeking public office

Path to citizenship for dreamers and non criminal undocumented coupled with stringent border and immigration enforcement

Jesus Whitey, you're practically a socialist.

Was about to say, whitey potentially the best wind up merchant/debate starter the board has seen in a while if they're his genuine beliefs.

Absolutely not.....I'm a fiscal conservative.....I believe every single thing I posted up there.

That's why I laugh at some people claiming I'm some crazy right winger....nothing could be further from the truth.  I'll confess that I'm right of center when it comes to fiscal and law enforcement issues.

There's plenty of money over here to give everyone a fair shake. And by everyone, I mean people who want to work, obey the law as best they can and raise their families

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

What about subsidising the life of someone who isn't a f**k up?

Someone who got a bad start in life

Someone who got dealt a tough hand

Someone who's made mistakes

Someone who just never seems to have a stroke of luck

I'd happily pay more in taxes to help the less fortunate in society. As long as people are trying their best for themselves and their kids and going in the right direction, I'm good with that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 09:17:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 08:30:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 08:07:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:47:38 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both

Your last sentence makes no sense.
If that's the best critique of the post you have you're fairly scraping the barrel

Clearly touched a nerve and it wasn't even addressed at you

No it's a reflection of your intelligence that you can't form coherent sentences.
Aye, it did touch a nerve

Over 70 million voted for trump and the Republicans, that's a serious number, whether you like them or policies or not they have a serious mandate.

I wouldn't have been a fan of Trump, either before or after this nightmare, but to go around and basically calling everyone facist's or whatever you've called them is wrong, you don't even live there so at first hand don't actually understand it.

I truly believe this vote was anyone but Trump, had the Republican Party anyone decent they'd have won. A bit like anyone but Hilary the last time
I do understand fascism and Republicans and Donald Trump are certainly fascist

Republicans are fascist because they are now wholly subservient to Trumpist fascism, they've gone along with it completely

There isn't really much to understand about Trump because he's a very uncomplex individual, he's entirely predictable

The reasons that people vote for fascists aren't that complex either but they are very interesting

Sadly the truth is that in times of economic pain, anger and a mass propaganda environment which directs that anger away from where it deserves to be aimed and onto an innocent "other", fascism becomes very popular indeed

The reasons people flocked to Adolf Hitler are the same reasons people idolise Trump

Any criticism of my line of argument that I've met on this forum has been typically cloaked in the stifling political correctness of the right and fake victimhood

Ultimately what Trumpist fascism is all about is political correctness - it is the ultimate extremist political correctness

It brooks no argument, it refuses challenge, it creates a fantasy world of make believe, and cocoons itself within that, to save itself from being challenged

As soon as it has to debate on objective facts and reason, it is finished - that's why it never debates on objective facts and reason

It peddles simplistic, easy, context-free false answers, and draws people into the fascist echo chamber, from which it is very difficult to ever escape - those inside the echo chamber retreat into safe spaces of the mind

When people really do tell it like is about what Trumpist fascism is, those who believe in it claim fake victimhood as a reflex action, because they are offended that their views have even been challenged

But a person cannot be a victim when stupid opinions they hold are being exposed as stupid

So Trumpist fascism is both extreme bullying and extreme cowardice

Bullying is of course a form of cowardice, so everything about Trumpist fascism amounts to cowardice

The "intellectual" environment in which elite American right-wingers are produced is incredibly shallow

You talk about economic pain and other  issues... Did the last government f**k up in that department?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 09:48:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 09:17:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 08:30:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 08:07:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:47:38 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both

Your last sentence makes no sense.
If that's the best critique of the post you have you're fairly scraping the barrel

Clearly touched a nerve and it wasn't even addressed at you

No it's a reflection of your intelligence that you can't form coherent sentences.
Aye, it did touch a nerve

Over 70 million voted for trump and the Republicans, that's a serious number, whether you like them or policies or not they have a serious mandate.

I wouldn't have been a fan of Trump, either before or after this nightmare, but to go around and basically calling everyone facist's or whatever you've called them is wrong, you don't even live there so at first hand don't actually understand it.

I truly believe this vote was anyone but Trump, had the Republican Party anyone decent they'd have won. A bit like anyone but Hilary the last time
I do understand fascism and Republicans and Donald Trump are certainly fascist

Republicans are fascist because they are now wholly subservient to Trumpist fascism, they've gone along with it completely

There isn't really much to understand about Trump because he's a very uncomplex individual, he's entirely predictable

The reasons that people vote for fascists aren't that complex either but they are very interesting

Sadly the truth is that in times of economic pain, anger and a mass propaganda environment which directs that anger away from where it deserves to be aimed and onto an innocent "other", fascism becomes very popular indeed

The reasons people flocked to Adolf Hitler are the same reasons people idolise Trump

Any criticism of my line of argument that I've met on this forum has been typically cloaked in the stifling political correctness of the right and fake victimhood

Ultimately what Trumpist fascism is all about is political correctness - it is the ultimate extremist political correctness

It brooks no argument, it refuses challenge, it creates a fantasy world of make believe, and cocoons itself within that, to save itself from being challenged

As soon as it has to debate on objective facts and reason, it is finished - that's why it never debates on objective facts and reason

It peddles simplistic, easy, context-free false answers, and draws people into the fascist echo chamber, from which it is very difficult to ever escape - those inside the echo chamber retreat into safe spaces of the mind

When people really do tell it like is about what Trumpist fascism is, those who believe in it claim fake victimhood as a reflex action, because they are offended that their views have even been challenged

But a person cannot be a victim when stupid opinions they hold are being exposed as stupid

So Trumpist fascism is both extreme bullying and extreme cowardice

Bullying is of course a form of cowardice, so everything about Trumpist fascism amounts to cowardice

The "intellectual" environment in which elite American right-wingers are produced is incredibly shallow

You talk about economic pain and other  issues... Did the last government f**k up in that department?
Every American government since probably the 60s has fucked up in the economic department

Republicans and Democrats traditionally are not massively different economically

The Democrats are usually bog standard neo-liberal while the Republicans are absolute in their desire for plutocracy

The latter is obviously worse than the former but that's not to say the former is great by a long shot

What there is in the Democratic party and among much of its support is an ever growing mood to change things to a more progressive stance - so the Democrats are the only hope America has as regards electoral politics

Social mobility in America has collapsed, wealth inequality has skyrocketed, the desperation that led people into the arms of Trump is real

America was at its strongest economically when it had the post war welfare state consensus, or what amounted to the watered down American version of it

Now it's just plutocracy, oligarchy, kleptocracy, and if you fall through the very wide cracks, you're fucked

The Anglo-American economic model has failed

This is undeniable

It's why America got Trump - but economically, Trump was the same utter shite on steroids, dressed up in slightly different clothes

What America needs is a bold progressive politics in every department

Go big, go bold, or go home
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
So you think 200 years will be changed soon? I've not seen a party in the states that's broke the mould..

You've at the very least labour, conservative and the Liberals who were more popular before the Labour Party.

Trump for all his faults (of which there was many) didn't get involved globally as previous ones, ie less drones bombings which I hope continues
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 08, 2020, 11:48:05 PM
Interesting dynamic about to break out in the Democrats if Biden will do a Starmer and head to the centre ground or move towards Universal Healthcare/student debt forgiveness/increase minimum wage. 

AOC has come out strong today but hard to see a moderate like Biden do anything drastic especially with the house not in his favour.

Dems need to be very careful or they'll totally f**k themselves for the midterms and 2024!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 01:16:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
So you think 200 years will be changed soon? I've not seen a party in the states that's broke the mould..

You've at the very least labour, conservative and the Liberals who were more popular before the Labour Party.

Trump for all his faults (of which there was many) didn't get involved globally as previous ones, ie less drones bombings which I hope continues

Drone strikes have increased under Trump.

You just don't hear about them because Trump himself sucks all the air out of the room. And also because he rolled back reporting transparency requirements brought in under Obama.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2020, 01:23:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 08, 2020, 11:48:05 PM
Interesting dynamic about to break out in the Democrats if Biden will do a Starmer and head to the centre ground or move towards Universal Healthcare/student debt forgiveness/increase minimum wage. 

AOC has come out strong today but hard to see a moderate like Biden do anything drastic especially with the house not in his favour.

Dems need to be very careful or they'll totally f**k themselves for the midterms and 2024!!

AOC makes a strong case. She says that Dems who went to the left got elected, those who went to the center lost their seats. I'd be interested in seeing some hard data to support this. You've got to remember that the US Democrats are very far to the right of the UK Labour Party. They have plenty of leftward leeway without straying too far from the center.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 01:23:58 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 08, 2020, 11:48:05 PM
Interesting dynamic about to break out in the Democrats if Biden will do a Starmer and head to the centre ground or move towards Universal Healthcare/student debt forgiveness/increase minimum wage. 

AOC has come out strong today but hard to see a moderate like Biden do anything drastic especially with the house not in his favour.

Dems need to be very careful or they'll totally f**k themselves for the midterms and 2024!!

I admire AOC for her intelligence and fearlessness, but she will have to suck it up and be patient.

Biden is the president. Pelosi the Speaker. Neither the votes nor the political climate is there for a very progressive agenda. He'll do what he can to reverse Trump's policies using executive orders and agency actions, but he is going to be consumed utterly by the COVID mess, the vaccine and getting the economy moving again. Do that well, and he'll be in a good position to improve the congressional situation in 2022.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:13:12 AM
Trump still refusing to concede and apparently going to ramp up the voter fraud bullshit, despite failing utterly to produce a shred of evidence and losing every case in court so far, except for one in PA where the minor issue had already been sorted.

He'll not be satisfied until some whack job tries to take a shot at Biden.

Hope he enjoys his legacy.

And shame on the wider GOP for indulging this pathetic, petulant, needy man-child.

"Give him time to process" my arse. They're a f**king personality cult rabble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2020, 05:01:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 08:07:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:47:38 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 08, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 08, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2020, 03:40:20 PM

If you want to be a fvck up and make bad decision after bad decision, that's on you......I shouldn't be forced to subsidize your lifestyle

I can give you one specific example of somebody who's a f**k up and has made bad decision after bad decision, and yet has been subsidised by the taxpayers - of which he is not one

That example is Donald Trump

And you just voted for him

So you, like all right-wing idiots, either do not believe a word you say, or are simply full of shit

In your case it's both

Your last sentence makes no sense.
If that's the best critique of the post you have you're fairly scraping the barrel

Clearly touched a nerve and it wasn't even addressed at you

No it's a reflection of your intelligence that you can't form coherent sentences.
Aye, it did touch a nerve

Over 70 million voted for trump and the Republicans, that's a serious number, whether you like them or policies or not they have a serious mandate.

I wouldn't have been a fan of Trump, either before or after this nightmare, but to go around and basically calling everyone facist's or whatever you've called them is wrong, you don't even live there so at first hand don't actually understand it.

I truly believe this vote was anyone but Trump, had the Republican Party anyone decent they'd have won. A bit like anyone but Hilary the last time

It's not wrong if they are fascists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 09, 2020, 07:20:55 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2020, 05:01:05 AM
It's not wrong if they are fascists.

To be fair, they probably aren't all fascists.

I'm sure there is a fair proportion of them (i) are stupid or (ii) have an irrational fear of out of control federal spending which they perceive the dems would do or (iii) they believe this time next year they'll be millionaires (Rodney), so they don't want to pay massive tax rates as they think they'll be part of the 1% or (iv) believe the dems simply cannot control spending or of course (v) are swayed by the hard-right media - who probably are knowledgeable enough to know what they are doing is fascist.


(i) can't really be helped in the short term, education can improve it over time.
(ii) While Trump has enlarged the debt more than any president in history, Obama isn't exactly clean here either. See also (iv) below.
(iii) Irrational. Trickle down doesn't work and the number of average Joes breaking into the 1% are minute.
(iv) they do have a point. Illinois is a financial basket case, has been for ages and has been under Dem legislature. They have temporarily raised taxes in the past with the express purpose of paying down debt - but ended up spending it all on new programs.
(v) censoring the media is a very slippery slope. Not sure how they go about reining in the ludicrous lies of Faux & Friends.


If the Dems want to win over fiscal conservatives, they need to run a much tighter ship in terms of spend than what they do currently. Unfortunately, even borrowing for value-for-money programs is of no use as perception is too easily slanted by Faux et al.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
J70

I think you have a NY Times subscription

Lash up the Conor Lamb piece when you have a chance

Conor Lamb, House Moderate, on Biden's Win, 'the Squad' and the Future of the Democratic Party

Conor Lamb, who survived a Republican challenge in Pennsylvania, says Democrats were given a message on Election Day: Backlash to progressive policies risks killing their House majority.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 10:42:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2020, 01:23:05 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 08, 2020, 11:48:05 PM
Interesting dynamic about to break out in the Democrats if Biden will do a Starmer and head to the centre ground or move towards Universal Healthcare/student debt forgiveness/increase minimum wage. 

AOC has come out strong today but hard to see a moderate like Biden do anything drastic especially with the house not in his favour.

Dems need to be very careful or they'll totally f**k themselves for the midterms and 2024!!
AOC makes a strong case. She says that Dems who went to the left got elected, those who went to the center lost their seats. I'd be interested in seeing some hard data to support this. You've got to remember that the US Democrats are very far to the right of the UK Labour Party. They have plenty of leftward leeway without straying too far from the center.
Depends on the area of the country, doesn't it, urban areas will be much more receptive in general towards people like AOC, but they ain't gonna win in rural Pennsylvania

But I think Amy McGrath is a good example of how gutless appeasement of Republicans is a terrible idea

You aren't going to win like that, by running a Republican against a Republican

You have to stand for something and you have to stand firmly against the Republicans

Like, what on earth was the point of her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 01:16:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
So you think 200 years will be changed soon? I've not seen a party in the states that's broke the mould..

You've at the very least labour, conservative and the Liberals who were more popular before the Labour Party.

Trump for all his faults (of which there was many) didn't get involved globally as previous ones, ie less drones bombings which I hope continues

Drone strikes have increased under Trump.

You just don't hear about them because Trump himself sucks all the air out of the room. And also because he rolled back reporting transparency requirements brought in under Obama.

Seen that,  nothing has changed for the better in that department... Can you imagine living with that hanging about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 09, 2020, 11:19:02 AM
As historian Journalist  Anne Applebaum pointed out, Trump  rode in on the populist racist conspiracy theory of Birtherism (Obama born in Kenya), a racist theory  that was/is believed by 1/3 of voting population (67m)  including 72% of registered republicans.

One can asssume that 3/4 of registered republicans are not only (to varying degrees) racist inclined  but believe in racist conspiracies. That is Trump's base.
So far the republican party is solid behind Trump and the legal challenges. Unfortunately for them they have Punch Rudy  masterminding the  campaign to unearth the conspiracies, and magically transform them into a substance.  Afterwards  when they are all thrown out of court the only thing left will be unsubstantiated bizarre  conspiracy theories.
What will the republican party do? accept the result and reject the popular conspiracy? or exist on two dimensions? one where they are in government negotiating with a  dem president  and the other  dimension where they pander to  Trump and the  67m  conspiracy cult followers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2020, 11:33:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
J70

I think you have a NY Times subscription

Lash up the Conor Lamb piece when you have a chance

Conor Lamb, House Moderate, on Biden's Win, 'the Squad' and the Future of the Democratic Party

Conor Lamb, who survived a Republican challenge in Pennsylvania, says Democrats were given a message on Election Day: Backlash to progressive policies risks killing their House majority.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/08/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-ends-truce-by-warning-incompetent-democratic-party?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 12:01:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
J70

I think you have a NY Times subscription

Lash up the Conor Lamb piece when you have a chance

Conor Lamb, House Moderate, on Biden's Win, 'the Squad' and the Future of the Democratic Party

Conor Lamb, who survived a Republican challenge in Pennsylvania, says Democrats were given a message on Election Day: Backlash to progressive policies risks killing their House majority.


Conor Lamb, House Moderate, on Biden's Win, 'the Squad' and the Future of the Democratic Party
Conor Lamb, who survived a Republican challenge in Pennsylvania, says Democrats were given a message on Election Day: Backlash to progressive policies risks killing their House majority.

By Astead W. Herndon
Nov. 8, 2020

The carefully calibrated unity of the Democratic Party lasted about six months. After a summer when moderates and progressives joined together to elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. president, his victory has now given permission for the party to expend time and energy on the difficult task of sorting out its ideological core.

House Democrats, reeling from unexpected losses in competitive races, wasted no time. Moderates have blamed progressives for pushing policies such as "Medicare for all" and defunding the police, which are unpopular in swing districts.

But progressives, rallying to influence Mr. Biden on cabinet appointments and initial policy, have pushed back. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York has pinned those House losses on poor digital campaigning, saying members made themselves "sitting ducks" for Republicans.

Conor Lamb, the 36-year-old Pennsylvania Democrat who beat back a Republican challenge in a district that President Trump won in 2016, is one of those moderates who believes the left is costing Democrats in key areas. In an interview with The New York Times, Mr. Lamb said he expected the incoming administration to govern as it had campaigned: with progressives at arm's length.

This interview has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Q. What's your expectation of Joe Biden's Democratic Party? How do you expect him to fall on the moderate vs. progressive divisions we see in the House?

A. I think that he means what he says when he says, "I ran a Democrat, but I'm going to serve as an American president." And what that means, I believe, is that every single day, and on every issue, he's going to be working to get as many people around the table and singing from the same sheet music as you can. And sometimes that will be everyone in the Democratic caucus. Sometimes it will be some people in the Democratic caucus and some Republicans. I think that's going to change by the issue, but he's a person that really believes our actual job in Washington, D.C., is to work with each other, compromise to get the best deal we can and then get the thing done. And I believe that too.

What went wrong for House Democrats when they were supposed to pick up seats?

I'm giving you an honest account of what I'm hearing from my own constituents, which is that they are extremely frustrated by the message of defunding the police and banning fracking. And I, as a Democrat, am just as frustrated. Because those things aren't just unpopular, they're completely unrealistic, and they aren't going to happen. And they amount to false promises by the people that call for them.

If someone in your family makes their living in some way connected to natural gas, whether on the pipeline itself, or you know, even in a restaurant that serves natural gas workers, this isn't something to joke around about or be casual about in your language.

That's what we're trying to say: that the rhetoric and the policies and all that stuff — it has gone way too far. It needs to be dialed back. It needs to be rooted in common sense, in reality, and yes, politics. Because we need districts like mine to stay in the majority and get something done for the people that we care about the most.

Let's take that issue. Joe Biden did not support defunding the police. Almost all the members of the Democratic Congress, even folks like Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, came out against it. What is the party supposed to do that it didn't?

I think we can do it much more clearly and repetitively and show it with our actions. We need to have a unified Democratic message about good law enforcement and how to keep people safe, while addressing the systemic racism that I do believe exists and the racial inequities that absolutely do exist. And when we passed the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act, that's exactly what we did.

But the people that I was on the phone with, when we were passing that at the time, were not the freshmen members who are criticizing us today. It was Karen Bass and Cedric Richmond and Colin Allred — and I was listening to them. And, you know, pretty much most of our moderate conservative Democrats all voted for that bill. We listened, we compromised and we got something done. And that's what this job is really about.

Is it the view of moderate Democrats that the progressives or the so-called Squad has taken up too much space in the national conversation?

I wouldn't put it that way. Because that really focuses on them as individuals and their personalities. And that is not what we're trying to do. We're trying to have a discussion about policy, not personality. And I want to be really clear on that, because I respect every one of those members and how hard they worked to get elected and how hard they have worked to stay elected and represent their constituencies. But the fact is that they and others are advocating policies that are unworkable and extremely unpopular.

So I would just say that our view is more that we want to have a clearer, sharper, more unified message on policy itself, regardless of who gets the credit or who is in the limelight for that.

In the Democratic primary, even as progressive candidates lost, polling showed that their issues remained popular among Democrats. Even things like single-payer health insurance or things like the Green New Deal. What's your response to that?

At the end of the day, it's individual candidates that have to win races, and then work with their fellow officeholders to pass bills into law and change people's lives. So you can tell me all the polling you want, but you have to win elections.

And I've now been through three very difficult elections in a Republican-leaning district, with the president personally campaigning against me. And I can tell you that people are not clamoring for the two policies that you just asked about. So, that's just what probably separates a winner from a loser in a district like mine.

On Saturday, I interviewed Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez and she mentioned you and how some House moderates ran their campaigns. I wanted to get a fact check quickly: Did you all spend just $2,000 on Facebook the week before the election?

She doesn't have any idea how we ran our campaign, or what we spent, to be honest with you. So yeah, her statement was wrong. But there's a deeper truth there, which is this — that our districts and our campaigns are extremely different. You know, I just leave it at that.

She said the way moderates ran their campaigns left them as "sitting ducks." What was your reaction?

I have to be honest and say that I was surprised about the whole interview on the day when Vice President and now President-Elect Biden was having the election called for him. I just don't think it was a day for people to be sniping at other members, especially in districts that are so different from their own.

I respect her and how hard she works. And what she did in an extremely low-turnout Democratic primary. But the fact is that in general elections in these districts — particularly in the ones where President Trump himself campaigns over and over and over again, and attacks members within their own Republican-leaning districts, like me and Representative Slotkin and Representative Spanberger — it's the message that matters. It's not a question of door knocking, or Facebook. It matters what policies you stand for, and which ones you don't. And that is all that we are trying to say.

The American people just showed us in massive numbers, generally, which side of these issues that they are on. They sent us a Republican Senate and a Democratic president; we're going have to do things that we can compromise over.

You mentioned sniping. Are progressives leading that or are moderates also doing so? I'm thinking of all the anonymous quotes attacking members of the left, something that she mentioned.

That's just honestly a hard question to answer, because I don't know who the anonymous people are. I believe we should put your name behind those types of comments and that's generally what I do.

But I got to say, as you've talked a lot about Representative Ocasio-Cortez, she can put her name behind stuff and that's I guess courageous, but when it's a damaging idea or bad policy, like her tweeting out that fracking is bad in the middle of a presidential debate when we're trying to win western Pennsylvania — that's not being anything like a team player. And it's honestly giving a false and ineffective promise to people that makes it very difficult to win the areas where President Trump is most popular in campaigns.

You and Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez are on different sides of the ideological spectrum, but the same side of a generational divide among Democrats. House party leadership has said they plan to run again. Does there need to be more youth among Democratic leadership?

The most important thing is that the leadership we have has to listen to the newer, younger members and actually give us some input and help us get accomplishments at the policy level.

But what seems to happen sometimes is when push comes to shove, the younger members who have come from these really tough districts and tough races don't always feel that the leadership takes our input as seriously as we would like. And I think that's something they need to improve, and I would bet that Representative Ocasio-Cortez would feel similarly — even if it was on different issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 12:01:36 PM

In the Democratic primary, even as progressive candidates lost, polling showed that their issues remained popular among Democrats. Even things like single-payer health insurance or things like the Green New Deal. What's your response to that?

This is the most important line in that piece - I presume it was a question by the interviewer despite the lack of bold type

Progressive policies are popular, and Republican policies aren't

But there is a branding issue and it is extremely important

Winning elections is basically advertising

Democrats have a far more attractive product, but terrible branding

Republicans have been extremely savvy at branding over the last 50 years despite having a rotten product to sell

So Democrats need to advertise themselves better, they need better branding

This is a matter of strategy

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 12:40:19 PM
Yes that was a question. I've corrected it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 12:01:36 PM

In the Democratic primary, even as progressive candidates lost, polling showed that their issues remained popular among Democrats. Even things like single-payer health insurance or things like the Green New Deal. What's your response to that?

This is the most important line in that piece - I presume it was a question by the interviewer despite the lack of bold type

Progressive policies are popular, and Republican policies aren't

But there is a branding issue and it is extremely important

Winning elections is basically advertising

Democrats have a far more attractive product, but terrible branding

Republicans have been extremely savvy at branding over the last 50 years despite having a rotten product to sell

So Democrats need to advertise themselves better, they need better branding

This is a matter of strategy

Its much easier to scream and demogogue and scare the bejesus out of people about "freedom" and socialists and immigrants and lazy welfare recipients. At least in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 01:07:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 12:01:36 PM

In the Democratic primary, even as progressive candidates lost, polling showed that their issues remained popular among Democrats. Even things like single-payer health insurance or things like the Green New Deal. What's your response to that?

This is the most important line in that piece - I presume it was a question by the interviewer despite the lack of bold type

Progressive policies are popular, and Republican policies aren't

But there is a branding issue and it is extremely important

Winning elections is basically advertising

Democrats have a far more attractive product, but terrible branding

Republicans have been extremely savvy at branding over the last 50 years despite having a rotten product to sell

So Democrats need to advertise themselves better, they need better branding

This is a matter of strategy

Its much easier to scream and demogogue and scare the bejesus out of people about "freedom" and socialists and immigrants and lazy welfare recipients. At least in the US.

The book "Democracy In Chains" by Nancy McLean explains how Republicans have strategised over the last 60 years in order to sell a product that is actually extremely unpopular when it is stripped of its branding

But the positive branding ensures the inferior product sells very easily, while the negative branding of the much superior Democratic product ensures a harder sell

Reminds me of the bit in the Simpsons:

Lisa: "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"
Bart: "Not if you called them stench blossoms"
Homer: "Or crapweeds"

Yesterday I said that the Democrats should adopt the positive Republican trigger words - reclaim them to sell progressive policies that these positive trigger words actually apply to

There is also an opportunity to reclaim the negative trigger words the Republicans use and throw them back at Republicans

For example, "political correctness"

Political correctness has a negative connotation - if you ask people what they think of political correctness, most people will reflexively have a negative reaction towards it

But Republicans demand a stifling conformity and censorship in public debate - and this is exactly what the popular imagination of political correctness is

So these are the words the Democrats, and left-wing parties in general, need to be throwing at the right, and they need to constantly repeat them, so they stick

"Conformity", "censorship", "cancel culture", "political correctness", "elite"

Simple messaging

And they need to abandon use of words like "intersectionality"

Intersectionality is a very sensible thing in reality - it comes from endless sociological and other academic research into the root causes of problems in society and how they are linked

But if you asked 100 people on the street to explain intersectionality, how many would be able to do so?

I'd wager it would be under 10%, probably under 5%

And therefore the term becomes meaningless, and actually a burden

So you need to come up with a better, simple way of explaining intersectionality - you call it something else - so that Joe the plumber in Ohio can understand it

This is purely a branding issue and does not necessitate abandoning principles or policies





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:02:13 PM
According to New York Times exit polling, this is the fifth successive time the Democratic presidential candidate has won the majority of voters who earn under $50k a year

Polling for this criteria only goes back to the 2004 election, so the Democrats have a 100% record of winning the working class in every election that this has been polled for

The working class delivered for Biden, and Republicans have a problem with them

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:02:13 PM
According to New York Times exit polling, this is the fifth successive time the Democratic presidential candidate has won the majority of voters who earn under $50k a year

Polling for this criteria only goes back to the 2004 election, so the Democrats have a 100% record of winning the working class in every election that this has been polled for

The working class delivered for Biden, and Republicans have a problem with them

Does that include students and trust-fund slackers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2020, 02:15:39 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:02:13 PM
According to New York Times exit polling, this is the fifth successive time the Democratic presidential candidate has won the majority of voters who earn under $50k a year

Polling for this criteria only goes back to the 2004 election, so the Democrats have a 100% record of winning the working class in every election that this has been polled for

The working class delivered for Biden, and Republicans have a problem with them

Does that include students and trust-fund slackers?

And other types of slackers too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:21:30 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:02:13 PM
According to New York Times exit polling, this is the fifth successive time the Democratic presidential candidate has won the majority of voters who earn under $50k a year

Polling for this criteria only goes back to the 2004 election, so the Democrats have a 100% record of winning the working class in every election that this has been polled for

The working class delivered for Biden, and Republicans have a problem with them

Does that include students and trust-fund slackers?
I think you mean sovereign individuals

The elite Republicans are the slackers and spongers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:21:30 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:02:13 PM
According to New York Times exit polling, this is the fifth successive time the Democratic presidential candidate has won the majority of voters who earn under $50k a year

Polling for this criteria only goes back to the 2004 election, so the Democrats have a 100% record of winning the working class in every election that this has been polled for

The working class delivered for Biden, and Republicans have a problem with them

Does that include students and trust-fund slackers?
I think you mean sovereign individuals

The elite Republicans are the slackers and spongers
;D There are very few elite Republicans on under $50k a year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:46:34 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:21:30 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:02:13 PM
According to New York Times exit polling, this is the fifth successive time the Democratic presidential candidate has won the majority of voters who earn under $50k a year

Polling for this criteria only goes back to the 2004 election, so the Democrats have a 100% record of winning the working class in every election that this has been polled for

The working class delivered for Biden, and Republicans have a problem with them

Does that include students and trust-fund slackers?
I think you mean sovereign individuals

The elite Republicans are the slackers and spongers
;D There are very few elite Republicans on under $50k a year.
Yes, there are very few elite Republicans on under $50k a year

So few that there are none, I would say

Strange that you thought there were some

Rich, elitist Republicans like Donald Trump are the biggest slackers and spongers in all of American society

Parasites sucking the blood of ordinary American people

Trump has been knocked flat on his fat ass by Scranton Joe



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:50:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:46:34 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:21:30 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:02:13 PM
According to New York Times exit polling, this is the fifth successive time the Democratic presidential candidate has won the majority of voters who earn under $50k a year

Polling for this criteria only goes back to the 2004 election, so the Democrats have a 100% record of winning the working class in every election that this has been polled for

The working class delivered for Biden, and Republicans have a problem with them

Does that include students and trust-fund slackers?
I think you mean sovereign individuals

The elite Republicans are the slackers and spongers
;D There are very few elite Republicans on under $50k a year.
Yes, there are very few elite Republicans on under $50k a year

So few that there are none, I would say

Strange that you thought there were some

Rich, elitist Republicans like Donald Trump are the biggest slackers and spongers in all of American society

Parasites sucking the blood of ordinary American people

Trump has been knocked flat on his fat ass by Scranton Joe

You're right, there are probably none.

I was going to add that there are probably thousands of them earning nothing but collecting sums that would make a banker blush.

No answer to my question?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:56:11 PM
Seems like there may well have been a load of fraud going on in the election - in Trump's favour

Many counties using voting machines showed suspiciously big increases in turnout - all for Trump and none for Biden

No recount is possible in these counties because the only paper trail produced by voting machines is a barcode which only a machine can read

This pattern is much different to counties which used paper ballots in which the turnout increases tended to be much more even

And still Trump couldn't win

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:58:23 PM
I don't buy the fraud stuff myself. Hillary was at the same craic this day four years ago. Time wounds all heels.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:59:36 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:50:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:46:34 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:21:30 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:02:13 PM
According to New York Times exit polling, this is the fifth successive time the Democratic presidential candidate has won the majority of voters who earn under $50k a year

Polling for this criteria only goes back to the 2004 election, so the Democrats have a 100% record of winning the working class in every election that this has been polled for

The working class delivered for Biden, and Republicans have a problem with them

Does that include students and trust-fund slackers?
I think you mean sovereign individuals

The elite Republicans are the slackers and spongers
;D There are very few elite Republicans on under $50k a year.
Yes, there are very few elite Republicans on under $50k a year

So few that there are none, I would say

Strange that you thought there were some

Rich, elitist Republicans like Donald Trump are the biggest slackers and spongers in all of American society

Parasites sucking the blood of ordinary American people

Trump has been knocked flat on his fat ass by Scranton Joe

You're right, there are probably none.

I was going to add that there are probably thousands of them earning nothing but collecting sums that would make a banker blush.

No answer to my question?
You didn't ask any question worthy of reply - but we have established your sneering contempt for the working class and students

Ordinary people and education are two things right-wingers generally despise, so your views are not at all surprising
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 09, 2020, 02:59:52 PM
First things first. Biden needs to issue a few executive orders to reverse some of Trump's earlier efforts but most importantly COVID is going to be the focus for the first 6 months. Not only is that a difficult challenge in itself it has been made more difficult because of the balls Trump has made of it to date and the fact that Trump and the Republican Party have politicised basic public health messages and made them less effective tools for Biden to use.

For this reason I reckon the short term will be one for deals with the Republican Party. Biden and America needs the cooperation of Republican politicians and private citizens influenced to date by republican messages in order to address COVID. Get that done and then get cracking on the wider agenda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 09, 2020, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

You didn't ask any question worthy of reply - but we have established your sneering contempt for the working class and students

Ordinary people and education are two things right-wingers generally despise, so your views are not at all surprising

Your idea of the working class includes rich brats paying for their crystal meth from their daddies' trust funds. And smelly "students" who wouldn't know a working class person if they bit them on the ass.


Education? LMAO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2020, 03:20:19 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

You didn't ask any question worthy of reply - but we have established your sneering contempt for the working class and students

Ordinary people and education are two things right-wingers generally despise, so your views are not at all surprising

Your idea of the working class includes rich brats paying for their crystal meth from their daddies' trust funds. And smelly "students" who wouldn't know a working class person if they bit them on the ass.


Education? LMAO.

I actually follow some socialists and marxists on Twitter....you know, the types who firebomb police cruisers and spit it cops faces

Anyway there's  one girl who's father is a doctor in Boston and she grew up in a $2-3M house in Brookline, MA

She was a theater major, so I'm sure she's earning <$50K per year. I wonder if her "Brooklyn lifestyle" is being heavily subsidized by mammy and daddy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2020, 03:29:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 03:20:19 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

You didn't ask any question worthy of reply - but we have established your sneering contempt for the working class and students

Ordinary people and education are two things right-wingers generally despise, so your views are not at all surprising

Your idea of the working class includes rich brats paying for their crystal meth from their daddies' trust funds. And smelly "students" who wouldn't know a working class person if they bit them on the ass.


Education? LMAO.

I actually follow some socialists and marxists on Twitter....you know, the types who firebomb police cruisers and spit it cops faces

Anyway there's  one girl who's father is a doctor in Boston and she grew up in a $2-3M house in Brookline, MA

She was a theater major, so I'm sure she's earning <$50K per year. I wonder if her "Brooklyn lifestyle" is being heavily subsidized by mammy and daddy
The plural of anecdote is not data.
The bottom 90% of Americans own 7% of the wealth. That's why socialism is making a comeback,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2020, 03:56:52 PM
Is there a fair chance that had this vaccine been announced 2 weeks ago Trump would still be in the Whitehouse??

Sobering thought about how fickle it can be!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 03:59:23 PM
Is there any truth that the Trumps booked a garden centre instead of the Four Seasons hotel in Philly for a press conference?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2020, 04:04:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2020, 03:56:52 PM
Is there a fair chance that had this vaccine been announced 2 weeks ago Trump would still be in the Whitehouse??

Sobering thought about how fickle it can be!
Trump tried to force the FDA to authorise it before the election but they stuck to their guns that nothing can happen until monitoring of the last patient in the Phase III trial is complete.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 03:59:23 PM
Is there any truth that the Trumps booked a garden centre instead of the Four Seasons hotel in Philly for a press conference?

Haha

That's not exactly what happened but it's close enough

Trumps people picked a place near the count center, but away from the Biden supporters  to hold the press conference-and that place was in fact the Garden Center

Trump must have misheard and tweeted out that they were holding it at the hotel, then deleted the tweet a few minutes later

One side of the garden center was a sex shop, and the other was a crematorium
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: smelmoth on November 09, 2020, 04:06:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 03:59:23 PM
Is there any truth that the Trumps booked a garden centre instead of the Four Seasons hotel in Philly for a press conference?

Haha

That's not exactly what happened but it's close enough

Trumps people picked a place near the count center, but away from the Biden supporters  to hold the press conference-and that place was in fact the Garden Center

Trump must have misheard and tweeted out that they were holding it at the hotel, then deleted the tweet a few minutes later

One side of the garden center was a sex shop, and the other was a crematorium

So why did they pick that particular location? Has a real strong whiff of incompetence by team Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 09, 2020, 04:09:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 03:59:23 PM
Is there any truth that the Trumps booked a garden centre instead of the Four Seasons hotel in Philly for a press conference?

Haha

That's not exactly what happened but it's close enough

Trumps people picked a place near the count center, but away from the Biden supporters  to hold the press conference-and that place was in fact the Garden Center

Trump must have misheard and tweeted out that they were holding it at the hotel, then deleted the tweet a few minutes later

One side of the garden center was a sex shop, and the other was a crematorium
Are you implying that they intentionally booked the garden centre?  ;D Clear as day that its a major gaff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: smelmoth on November 09, 2020, 04:09:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2020, 03:29:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 03:20:19 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

You didn't ask any question worthy of reply - but we have established your sneering contempt for the working class and students

Ordinary people and education are two things right-wingers generally despise, so your views are not at all surprising

Your idea of the working class includes rich brats paying for their crystal meth from their daddies' trust funds. And smelly "students" who wouldn't know a working class person if they bit them on the ass.


Education? LMAO.

I actually follow some socialists and marxists on Twitter....you know, the types who firebomb police cruisers and spit it cops faces

Anyway there's  one girl who's father is a doctor in Boston and she grew up in a $2-3M house in Brookline, MA

She was a theater major, so I'm sure she's earning <$50K per year. I wonder if her "Brooklyn lifestyle" is being heavily subsidized by mammy and daddy
The plural of anecdote is not data.
The bottom 90% of Americans own 7% of the wealth. That's why socialism is making a comeback,

Agree with that. The socialism that America will get wouldn't pass as socialism elsewhere but baby steps forward would be better than swings between left and right.

While I'm here Seafoid, did you ever find out what war Kier Starmer was in favour off?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 09, 2020, 04:10:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2020, 03:29:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 03:20:19 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

You didn't ask any question worthy of reply - but we have established your sneering contempt for the working class and students

Ordinary people and education are two things right-wingers generally despise, so your views are not at all surprising

Your idea of the working class includes rich brats paying for their crystal meth from their daddies' trust funds. And smelly "students" who wouldn't know a working class person if they bit them on the ass.


Education? LMAO.

I actually follow some socialists and marxists on Twitter....you know, the types who firebomb police cruisers and spit it cops faces

Anyway there's  one girl who's father is a doctor in Boston and she grew up in a $2-3M house in Brookline, MA

She was a theater major, so I'm sure she's earning <$50K per year. I wonder if her "Brooklyn lifestyle" is being heavily subsidized by mammy and daddy
The plural of anecdote is not data.
The bottom 90% of Americans own 7% of the wealth. That's why socialism is making a comeback,

What's the percentage if you exclude children, students and the under 50s who haven't been working long enough to clear their mortgages?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2020, 04:12:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 09, 2020, 04:06:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 03:59:23 PM
Is there any truth that the Trumps booked a garden centre instead of the Four Seasons hotel in Philly for a press conference?

Haha

That's not exactly what happened but it's close enough

Trumps people picked a place near the count center, but away from the Biden supporters  to hold the press conference-and that place was in fact the Garden Center

Trump must have misheard and tweeted out that they were holding it at the hotel, then deleted the tweet a few minutes later

One side of the garden center was a sex shop, and the other was a crematorium

So why did they pick that particular location? Has a real strong whiff of incompetence by team Trump

Not sure

Some of the reasons being bandied about

It is owned by a Trump supporter

It is in a Trump supporting neighborhood surrounded by neighborhoods surrounding Biden

There was a large contingent of Biden supporters already at the count center and so wanted to have a gathering as near as they could while at the same time  avoiding conflict

Either way it was a PR disaster

Edit:

According to Twitter

"An answer to the Four Seasons Total Landscaping mystery: the company told me the Trump campaign contacted them today out of the blue ahead of the Giuliani presser and said their location was close to an exit on I95, and was secure, and that's why they wanted to use it."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:12:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2020, 03:56:52 PM
Is there a fair chance that had this vaccine been announced 2 weeks ago Trump would still be in the Whitehouse??

Sobering thought about how fickle it can be!

I don't think so.

A lot of Trump supporters don't seem to give two fucks about the virus.

Most people who do care or have been affected will have seen his appalling and irresponsible conduct to date with respect to the outbreak, both in practice and in rhetoric, and would rightly give him little or no credit for any vaccine progress.

Just look at today. Instead of getting out there amidst record breaking numbers of cases and trying to lead the country, he's engaged in a self-pitying, evidence-free, charade before the courts, but mostly the media, to cast doubt on the election and further increase tensions. He's going down, but he's going to try to bring everyone else down with him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 04:12:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 09, 2020, 04:06:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 03:59:23 PM
Is there any truth that the Trumps booked a garden centre instead of the Four Seasons hotel in Philly for a press conference?

Haha

That's not exactly what happened but it's close enough

Trumps people picked a place near the count center, but away from the Biden supporters  to hold the press conference-and that place was in fact the Garden Center

Trump must have misheard and tweeted out that they were holding it at the hotel, then deleted the tweet a few minutes later

One side of the garden center was a sex shop, and the other was a crematorium

So why did they pick that particular location? Has a real strong whiff of incompetence by team Trump

Not sure

Some of the reasons being bandied about

It is owned by a Trump supporter

It is in a Trump supporting neighborhood surrounded by neighborhoods surrounding Biden

There was a large contingent of Biden supporters already at the count center and so wanted to have a gathering as near as they could while at the same time  avoiding conflict

Either way it was a PR disaster

You'd have to wonder when he is going to see the light and jettison Giuliani, who has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster for Trump.

Maybe Rudy has something on him. Or just feeds his needy ego in the right way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2020, 04:18:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:12:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2020, 03:56:52 PM
Is there a fair chance that had this vaccine been announced 2 weeks ago Trump would still be in the Whitehouse??

Sobering thought about how fickle it can be!

He's going down, but he's going to try to bring everyone else down with him.
Just like his predecessor Hitler.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:26:07 PM
(https://otb.cachefly.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/presidential-venn-diagram.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
John Taylor Kilclooney on Twitter. He's managed to get "the Indian" trending on American twitter. He might find he's out of his depth at senior hurling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:35:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
John Taylor Kilclooney on Twitter. He's managed to get "the Indian" trending on American twitter. He might find he's out of his depth at senior hurling.

Has that old bigoted f**ker not been put out to pasture yet?

Haven't heard of him in years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 09, 2020, 04:41:16 PM
I thought he was long gone off twitter. I haven't seen him on it for a long long time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 04:42:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:26:07 PM
(https://otb.cachefly.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/presidential-venn-diagram.jpg)
You can't say Trump doesn't believe in intersectionality
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 04:48:32 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

You didn't ask any question worthy of reply - but we have established your sneering contempt for the working class and students

Ordinary people and education are two things right-wingers generally despise, so your views are not at all surprising

Your idea of the working class includes rich brats paying for their crystal meth from their daddies' trust funds. And smelly "students" who wouldn't know a working class person if they bit them on the ass.


Education? LMAO.
All you can do at that response is laugh

That sort of sneering contempt and all consuming hatred for an imagined straw man cannot be healthy

The forum's Trump supporters are experiencing a vicious inner turmoil and are lashing out





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2020, 03:29:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 03:20:19 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

You didn't ask any question worthy of reply - but we have established your sneering contempt for the working class and students

Ordinary people and education are two things right-wingers generally despise, so your views are not at all surprising

Your idea of the working class includes rich brats paying for their crystal meth from their daddies' trust funds. And smelly "students" who wouldn't know a working class person if they bit them on the ass.


Education? LMAO.

I actually follow some socialists and marxists on Twitter....you know, the types who firebomb police cruisers and spit it cops faces

Anyway there's  one girl who's father is a doctor in Boston and she grew up in a $2-3M house in Brookline, MA

She was a theater major, so I'm sure she's earning <$50K per year. I wonder if her "Brooklyn lifestyle" is being heavily subsidized by mammy and daddy
The plural of anecdote is not data.
The bottom 90% of Americans own 7% of the wealth. That's why socialism is making a comeback,
Also called freedom, liberty and common sense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 04:42:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:26:07 PM
(https://otb.cachefly.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/presidential-venn-diagram.jpg)
You can't say Trump doesn't believe in intersectionality

He'll have his own, personal, unique spot in US presidential history! :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 04:42:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:26:07 PM
(https://otb.cachefly.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/presidential-venn-diagram.jpg)
You can't say Trump doesn't believe in intersectionality

He'll have his own, personal, unique spot in US presidential history! :D

Also only president to lose 2 popular votes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 09, 2020, 04:59:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 04:48:32 PM
Quote from: five points on November 09, 2020, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

You didn't ask any question worthy of reply - but we have established your sneering contempt for the working class and students

Ordinary people and education are two things right-wingers generally despise, so your views are not at all surprising

Your idea of the working class includes rich brats paying for their crystal meth from their daddies' trust funds. And smelly "students" who wouldn't know a working class person if they bit them on the ass.


Education? LMAO.
All you can do at that response is laugh

That sort of sneering contempt and all consuming hatred for an imagined straw man cannot be healthy

The forum's Trump supporters are experiencing a vicious inner turmoil and are lashing out
Of course I'm laughing. A degree in Microaggressions for example is not education, even if you're paying $25,000 a year for it.

Turmoil? But laughter.  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 04:12:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 09, 2020, 04:06:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 03:59:23 PM
Is there any truth that the Trumps booked a garden centre instead of the Four Seasons hotel in Philly for a press conference?

Haha

That's not exactly what happened but it's close enough

Trumps people picked a place near the count center, but away from the Biden supporters  to hold the press conference-and that place was in fact the Garden Center

Trump must have misheard and tweeted out that they were holding it at the hotel, then deleted the tweet a few minutes later

One side of the garden center was a sex shop, and the other was a crematorium

So why did they pick that particular location? Has a real strong whiff of incompetence by team Trump

Not sure

Some of the reasons being bandied about

It is owned by a Trump supporter

It is in a Trump supporting neighborhood surrounded by neighborhoods surrounding Biden

There was a large contingent of Biden supporters already at the count center and so wanted to have a gathering as near as they could while at the same time  avoiding conflict

Either way it was a PR disaster

You'd have to wonder when he is going to see the light and jettison Giuliani, who has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster for Trump.

Maybe Rudy has something on him. Or just feeds his needy ego in the right way.
The amount of kompromat must be off the scale

Trump is kompromised by Putin
Manafort is kompromised by Putin
Manafort is kompromised by Deripaska
Trump is kompromised by Manafort
Giuliani is kompromised by Trump
Trump is kompromised by Giuliani
Giuliani is kompromised by Derkach
Giuliani is kompromised by Manafort
Graham is kompromised by Trump
Graham is kompromised by Stone
Trump is kompromised by Sater
The FBI is kompromised by Sater
Trump is kompromised by Maxwell
Trump was kompromised by Epstein
Vance is kompromised by Kushner
Kushner is kompromised by Bin Salman
Kushner is kompromised by Netanyahu
The Republican party is kompromised by the NRA
The NRA is kompromised by Russia
Rohrabacher is kompromised by Russia
Johnson is kompromised by Russia
The Republican party is kompromised by Trump
Hannity is kompromised by Trump
Trump is kompromised by Mogilevich
Trump is kompromised by Rybolovlev
Trump is kompromised by Deutsche Bank
Deutsche Bank is kompromised by Putin
The CIA is kompromised by Lavrov
The CDC is kompromised by Trump

And on and on and on and on

To draw a diagram of all the kompromat would be dizzying

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 05:45:45 PM
This is a very good thread by former conservative activist and journalist Matthew Sheffield

It eviscerates the right wing media bubble

Don't agree with every single thing in it but it is thought provoking

https://twitter.com/mattsheffield/status/1324997282870145024

As a former conservative activist and journalist, it has been so frustrating to see my former compatriots spreading wild and unchecked claims about "voter fraud."
@jacknicas of the NYT took a deep look at claims of "dead" people in Michigan voting. Link in next tweet.

While examining claims made by right-wing activists who are not credible individuals is a thankless task which elite media editors despise, this is vital and important work in this age of fake news. Here's the link:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/technology/false-dead-michigan-voter-claims.html

As the co-creator of NewsBusters, the most prominent anti-media website, I was part of a decades-long tradition of complaining about media elites being "unfair" to conservative views. There is still much to that argument, but eventually I saw that I was missing context.

What I did not realize until I began expanding my work into creating actual media and reporting institutions such as the Washington Examiner (I was the founding online editor) was that U.S. conservatives do not understand the purpose of journalism.

This became evident to me as I saw that conservative-dominated media outlets were MUCH more biased than outlets run by liberals. The latter had flaws that arose from a lack of diversities (note plural) but they operated mostly in good faith. That's not how the former operated.

I eventually realized that most people who run right-dominated media outlets see it as their DUTY to be unfair and to favor Republicans because doing so would some how counteract perceived liberal bias.

While I was enmeshed in the conservative media tradition, I viewed lefty media thinkers like @jayrosen_nyu as arguing that journalism was supposed to be liberally biased. I was wrong. I realized later that I didn't understand that journalism is supposed to portray reality.

This thought was phrased memorably by @StephenAtHome as "reality has a well-known liberal bias" which is an oversimplification but is more accurate than the conservative journalist view which is that media should promote and serve conservative politicians.

I also discovered as I rose through the right-wing media ranks that most conservative media figures have no journalism training or desire to fact-check their own side. I also saw so many ppl think that reporting of info negative to GOP pols was biased, even if it was true.

If you would like to get a great look at the tensions and origins of conservative journalism, there is a wonderful, fabulous book by my friend @pastpunditry which I cannot commend enough. My career was an updated version of what she chronicled.
https://www.amazon.com/Messengers-Right-Conservative-Transformation-American/dp/0812248392

People ask sometimes if conservative media figures like Sean Hannity or anyone associated with the Federalist could actually be so credulous as to believe unfounded and non-specific allegations of "voter fraud." But the reality is that they don't actually even think that far.

Truth for conservative journalists is anything that harms "the left." It doesn't even have to be a fact. Trump's numerous lies about any subject under the sun are thus justified because his deceptions point to a larger truth: that liberals are evil.

This assumption is behind all conservative media output. They never tell you what their actual motives are. Most center-left people don't realize just how radical many conservative elites are, largely because they don't wear it on their sleeves.

Just as a for-instance of this point, most people have no idea that the top two Trump White House figures, Mike Pence and Mark Meadows, think that biological evolution is a lie.

This is an extraordinarily dangerous viewpoint in light of the SARS2 coronavirus epidemic because the entirety of virology and epidemiology is based on evolution. If you think it's "fake" then you'll believe ludicrous nonsense like "herd immunity."

The same thing is happening with right-wing media and specious claims of voter fraud. Conservatives are willing to believe them even if there is no evidence, simply because anything negative about liberals is true. This mentality extends to the very highest ranks.

Newt Gingrich, William Bennett, and a bevvy of GOP elected officials have no problem parroting unverified rumors as fact because conservative journalism is not about supporting conservatives, not about finding facts.

I tried for over a decade to inculcate some standards of independence and professionalism among conservative writers but my efforts made me enemies, especially when I argued that the GOP should be neutral on religion instead of biased toward Christians.

I began work on a manuscript in 2012 fearing that Mitt Romney would lose his election because conservatives had not learned how politics actually works and that we should adapt to serve public needs and make peace with secular people.

I showed my manuscript to several people who I thought were my friends because I wanted to get the perspective of religious conservatives. Instead of helping me, some of them began trying to expel me from the conservative movement.

I eventually realized that many conservative activists were committed to identity rather than ideas. One of my friends literally told me in 2016 that he would support Cruz bc "that's what the Christians are doing."

We're at a critical moment in U.S. politics right now because the Christian identity politics that is the edifice of Republican electioneering is teetering. Millions of Americans have for decades thought that their countrymen are evil.

You can watch this play out right now on a television stage when you tune into Fox News as they cover the election. Fact-based journalists have finally realized that the identity rage of the GOP is going into a raging crescendo.

On an hourly basis now outside of the rage-filled lie-fests of primetime, Fox reporters are gently trying to explain to guests that they need actual evidence before accusing people of crimes. The guests, such as Gingrich, have NEVER been challenged like this on Fox.

Bret Baier, Chris Wallace, Martha MacCallum, and others are trying to save conservatism from itself. It's like watching a modern-day adaptation of Aeschylus or Sophocles. Sadly, the rest of us are not just spectators in this tragedy.

How American conservatism dies is the most important story, by far, of this moment. Conventional media will never tell this story because their business is built on the lie that Trump is an aberration rather than apotheosis. That NeverTrump is righteous rather than venal.

At the same time, the tens of millions of people who vote Republican are not deplorable. They are misled. And the mocking and tribalistic coverage that lefty media often engage in only makes things worse. Only love can defeat hate.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 06:02:09 PM
Reddit's /r/Conservative is one of the most populated American right-wing forums

Here's its guidelines

Is it any wonder American right-wingers are trapped in such a stagnant cesspool of redundant thought?

They're trained in a stifling atmosphere of censoriousness and crushing, overpowering right-wing political correctness

No debate allowed, only unthinking cheerleading

Quotehttps://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/wiki/index/whatrconisnot

What /r/Conservative Is Not

We are not a debate forum. We are not here to indulge you in your leftist views that history has proven wrong over and over again. We are not going to waste our time with you arrogantly telling us how wrong you think we are.

We are not a place for explanation. The Internet has this amazing feature called search engines, and we recommend you looking up what things are. This can happen instantly, rather than you typing out a question in a subreddit, and then waiting around to see if someone answers your question. We recommend DuckDuckGo

We are not a chatroom. If you look at our subreddit, it should become wildly obvious that we prefer article posts. All text posts are filtered for review, and only a small number get approved. They have to be extremely relevant, extremely interesting, or have so much potential, we can't ignore them.

We are not fair and balanced. We don't pretend to be unbiased. We don't pretend to give all commenters equal time. This is by conservatives and for conservatives. We are here to discuss conservative topics from a distinctly conservative point of view. If you don't like that it's not an unbiased forum, go ask why /r/politics is a leftist totalitarian state. Leftists and moderates have never been welcomed here. If you wander in here and spout nonsense or insult us, don't be surprised when we ban you almost instantly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2020, 06:14:54 PM
Sid-what are Joe's progressive policies going to do for the 700+ people who are going to be murdered in the city of Chicago this year?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2020, 06:23:52 PM
Today in conservative education standards...

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124383975_3760034024030490_6387926054298900834_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=BPCg0qbEhyYAX-XO195&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=9c9a5cf0cc93611d6871399b3b1a9d2c&oe=5FD10E8C)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2020, 06:28:47 PM
And i never thought I'd say this, but I think I want to hear more from this lady...

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124117464_10158000563594195_9180315523386917283_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=jfZ3EoIVnnwAX8nRwyG&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=2aea487a4fc424b31b01b771300dcc5c&oe=5FCDAFC0)

Compared to Trump's word salads, this is almost coherent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 06:30:56 PM
Twitter allows people to make public eejits of themselves, when previously they only made eejits of themselves in their own localities.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2020, 06:23:52 PM
Today in conservative education standards...

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124383975_3760034024030490_6387926054298900834_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=BPCg0qbEhyYAX-XO195&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=9c9a5cf0cc93611d6871399b3b1a9d2c&oe=5FD10E8C)
Reminds me of when David Quinn of the I Own Her Institute claimed there were 18,000 GPs (General Practitioners) in Ireland in 2018 after finding an internet link from 2008 which told him there were 18,000 GPS (Global Positioning System) locations mapped in Ireland

Right wingers are as dumb as a garden hoe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
Looking at his twitter, I think that guy is doing a sarcastic parody.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2020, 07:47:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
Looking at his twitter, I think that guy is doing a sarcastic parody.

It's hard to tell these days. There are conservatives out there who really are that stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 09, 2020, 08:37:35 PM
Don't suppose any of you seen channel 4 news?

Matt Frei was interviewing Brendan Boyle D-PA, and asked him if the internal markets bill in Westminster would mean no trade deal with the US.

The bould Brendan responded with "If the UK moves forward with this Internal Market Bill... there will be no US-UK trade deal – period".

https://www.channel4.com/news/if-the-uk-moves-forward-with-this-internal-market-bill-there-will-be-no-us-uk-trade-deal-period-democratic-congressman-brendan-boyle


I think its one of the few things that there is cross party agreement on in the US. I would think it'd be something they'll happily use to be seen to be cooperating too.

Trouble ahead for "the shapeshifting creep" methinks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 09, 2020, 08:38:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
John Taylor Kilclooney on Twitter. He's managed to get "the Indian" trending on American twitter. He might find he's out of his depth at senior hurling.

Has gone down like a lead balloon in the House of Lords, and apparently has already found it's way to Team Biden's ears. Still, what else could you expect from someone who's been a bigot all his life?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 09, 2020, 08:39:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 06:14:54 PM
Sid-what are Joe's progressive policies going to do for the 700+ people who are going to be murdered in the city of Chicago this year?
he is going to hire  ramh Emanuel  to start up a few tech companies in the hood and teach everyone to code , there problem solved according to rahm.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2020, 08:42:53 PM
https://twitter.com/C_Westling/status/1325645300527230976?s=20

LOL

Next 4 years are going to be interesting - fasten you're seatbelts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 09, 2020, 08:43:24 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 09, 2020, 08:38:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
John Taylor Kilclooney on Twitter. He's managed to get "the Indian" trending on American twitter. He might find he's out of his depth at senior hurling.

Has gone down like a lead balloon in the House of Lords, and apparently has already found it's way to Team Biden's ears. Still, what else could you expect from someone who's been a bigot all his life?

... and he has previous.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 09, 2020, 08:37:35 PM
Don't suppose any of you seen channel 4 news?

Matt Frei was interviewing Brendan Boyle D-PA, and asked him if the internal markets bill in Westminster would mean no trade deal with the US.

The bould Brendan responded with "If the UK moves forward with this Internal Market Bill... there will be no US-UK trade deal – period".

https://www.channel4.com/news/if-the-uk-moves-forward-with-this-internal-market-bill-there-will-be-no-us-uk-trade-deal-period-democratic-congressman-brendan-boyle


I think its one of the few things that there is cross party agreement on in the US. I would think it'd be something they'll happily use to be seen to be cooperating too.

Trouble ahead for "the shapeshifting creep" methinks.
Sure did

Enjoyed the bit where Matt Frei suggested the special relationship would not be between Washington and London but Washington and Dublin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on November 09, 2020, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 09, 2020, 08:43:24 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 09, 2020, 08:38:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
John Taylor Kilclooney on Twitter. He's managed to get "the Indian" trending on American twitter. He might find he's out of his depth at senior hurling.

Has gone down like a lead balloon in the House of Lords, and apparently has already found it's way to Team Biden's ears. Still, what else could you expect from someone who's been a bigot all his life?

... and he has previous.

He was a bigot in a previous life also? Do 'they' believe in that sort of thing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 09, 2020, 09:33:59 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 09, 2020, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 09, 2020, 08:43:24 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 09, 2020, 08:38:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
John Taylor Kilclooney on Twitter. He's managed to get "the Indian" trending on American twitter. He might find he's out of his depth at senior hurling.

Has gone down like a lead balloon in the House of Lords, and apparently has already found it's way to Team Biden's ears. Still, what else could you expect from someone who's been a bigot all his life?

... and he has previous.

He was a bigot in a previous life also? Do 'they' believe in that sort of thing?

Called Leo "the Indian".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 09:40:24 PM
Not to mention not being the greatest of friends to anyone catholic in his earlier years... Once a bigot always a bigot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: ballinaman on November 09, 2020, 09:42:50 PM
I've been full sure it is a parody account on Twitter for ages 8) :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 09:46:03 PM
It would make more sense ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 09:47:30 PM
The "Kilc" bit of his name is silent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2020, 09:47:39 PM
Fox News just cut away from McEnany's press conference there because she accused the Dems of "welcoming fraud".

I've been watching them a lot this last week it seems like during the day they're ok with being a proper News Organisation but in the morning and during Primetime anything goes. Crazy stuff!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
McConnell now backing Trump's futile electoral fraud fantasy.

Both GA senators asking the Republican who is in charge of the elections in Georgia to stand down because he is supposedly overseeing a corrupt election.

They truly are now the party of Trump and QAnon, living in an alternate reality world of their own, with no interest in democracy, only raw power.

It would be laughable if they weren't in power and holding sway over almost half of the population.

These people are sick in the head and this country is fucked.

Men like Barry Goldwater must be rolling over in their graves.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2020, 09:54:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 09, 2020, 08:37:35 PM
Don't suppose any of you seen channel 4 news?

Matt Frei was interviewing Brendan Boyle D-PA, and asked him if the internal markets bill in Westminster would mean no trade deal with the US.

The bould Brendan responded with "If the UK moves forward with this Internal Market Bill... there will be no US-UK trade deal – period".

https://www.channel4.com/news/if-the-uk-moves-forward-with-this-internal-market-bill-there-will-be-no-us-uk-trade-deal-period-democratic-congressman-brendan-boyle


I think its one of the few things that there is cross party agreement on in the US. I would think it'd be something they'll happily use to be seen to be cooperating too.

Trouble ahead for "the shapeshifting creep" methinks.
Sure did

Enjoyed the bit where Matt Frei suggested the special relationship would not be between Washington and London but Washington and Dublin

It's been like that for a long time, the Irish have long had more clout in DC than the Brits ever had. The "special relationship" between the UK and the US is something only people in the UK talk about, most yanks have never heard of it. The pro-Europe faction in Britain has recognized this for a long time, and Michael Heseltine has spoken about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6y7ggURro0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 09:57:01 PM
I don't know much about the goings on with these court cases and recounts etc. They seem like the shenanigans of a madman clinging on to power however a small part of me is nervous as if this guy were to get back in it would be to a horrendous horrendous thing. Biden probably wouldn't(won't) be great but he would by default bring less division which can only be a good thing in a hugely divided world. He would also keep more check on the brits with brexit etc. For trump to somehow scramble this back is unthinkable really :(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2020, 09:58:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
McConnell now backing Trump's futile electoral fraud fantasy.

Both GA senators asking the Republican who is in charge of the elections in Georgia to stand down because he is supposedly overseeing a corrupt election.

They truly are now the party of Trump and QAnon, living in an alternate reality world of their own, with no interest in democracy, only raw power.

It would be laughable if they weren't in power and holding sway over almost half of the population.

These people are sick in the head and this country is fucked.

Men like Barry Goldwater must be rolling over in their graves.
See talk earlier that following the firing of the Defense Secretary, Trump might yet have a lash at Iran before he leaves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 10:00:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 09:57:01 PM
I don't know much about the goings on with these court cases and recounts etc. They seem like the shenanigans of a madman clinging on to power however a small part of me is nervous as if this guy were to get back in it would be to a horrendous horrendous thing. Biden probably wouldn't(won't) be great but he would by default bring less division which can only be a good thing in a hugely divided world. He would also keep more check on the brits with brexit etc. For trump to somehow scramble this back is unthinkable really :(

Trump is not going to get back or win this. That is not the issue.

The issue is that he is trying to foment an uprising among his support and that his party don't have the balls, the dignity or the integrity to stand up to him. Its the damage he can do and the fact that he is being indulged when there is simply no basis for it beyond his petulant, fragile ego.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 10:02:50 PM
Yeah that to me is a major concern for what happens in four years time too. Even if they don't have trump if they are of that ilk they won't be good. A more clever version of him would not be good.

It feels like a pipe dream etc but the guy just makes me nervous. He is a dangerous man.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 10:40:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 10:02:50 PM
Yeah that to me is a major concern for what happens in four years time too. Even if they don't have trump if they are of that ilk they won't be good. A more clever version of him would not be good.

It feels like a pipe dream etc but the guy just makes me nervous. He is a dangerous man.
I keep hearing about "a more clever version of Trump", but I'm not sure how you could have one

Surely the key point about Trump is that his outward comedy buffoonery is the perfect persona to put the fantasy world of make believe that is required into practice

A more outwardly clever but duller person would have a harder time doing it, and the dullness would mean they would not attract the same cultish following

The comedy buffoon element is essential

Tucker Carlson, Trump Junior, Ivanka Trump, Tom Cotton, Josh Hawley and Mike Pence don't have that comedy buffoon element, they're either dull, as in the case of Pence and Hawley, empty as in the case of Ivanka, or very outwardly nasty and threatening with no comedy element as in the case of Carlson and Trump Junior

Cotton is all three - dull, empty and threatening

So Trump is actually extremely clever in terms of strategy as regards what he is trying to carry out

Trump has created this almost parallel world of weirdness and novelty which never seems to wear off - him being president is like when a TV character from one series suddenly pops up in another series, like if JR Ewing had appeared in character in Glenroe

The scary thing is that I can see there being a very strange yet deep nostalgia for these last four years within quite a short time after January 20th - it has had the world transfixed - and that, I guess, is Trump's real victory - attention for him is like oxygen, and he has secured himself a place in infamy, he will be remembered forever no matter what

In a world where our popular culture has fragmented into a million pieces, nobody knows who's top of the charts and nobody watches the same things, the one element of world popular culture that everybody is familiar with and everybody has an opinion on is Trump

He has made American politics the new English football

He has been in some ways been a comforting figure mentally - whether you love him or hate him - and non-crazy people despise him

He has to an extent allowed the world to retreat into comforting certainties because everybody is so sure about their opinion of him - yet he has also demolished certainties within the minds of people - he has provoked a massive drive in people to learn, through both American history and world history, and psychology, about the true danger he today represents

He makes people feel energised either in cultish adulation or outright disgust, he makes people feel alive  - I myself have felt genuinely electrified and have had a very conscious sense of living through something huge over the last week

Yet conversely he also makes every day a mentally and emotionally draining grind - I suppose that why the last week has felt so electric

He is a throwback to a time when many major news stories were imagined as good v evil - and in this case, that good v evil narrative is actually true, because he is f**king appalling in a very real sense - a shameless, bloodsucking ghoul

If he didn't exist we would almost have had to invent him


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2020, 10:56:35 PM
Lou Dobbs interviewing Giuliani . . . Hillary Clinton orchestrated the whole thing and there was collusion across states East and West to not let observers see the mail in ballots!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2020, 11:01:41 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2020, 10:56:35 PM
Lou Dobbs interviewing Giuliani . . . Hillary Clinton orchestrated the whole thing and there was collusion across states East and West to not let observers see the mail in ballots!!

I'm sure Soros is in there too.

Which is the point.

This is all about rabble rousing, chaos and, I'm sure, fund raising.

Whatever about Trump himself, the rest of them are under no illusions about him actually winning this thing.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: An Watcher on November 09, 2020, 11:25:34 PM
Just reading up on Brendan Boyle. His father is from Glencolumbkille and emigrated in 1970.  Some story
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2020, 11:59:26 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 09, 2020, 11:25:34 PM
Just reading up on Brendan Boyle. His father is from Glencolumbkille and emigrated in 1970.  Some story

Definitely a rising star

Hopefully AOC and the other Nazis don't take him out at the knees
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 12:10:20 AM
Play your part in finishing the job of taking back the senate. Don't let these 2 remaining Georgia senate seats slip back into the hands of Mitch "block everything then blame the Democrats for getting nothing done" McConnell. Write postcards to Dem voters in Georgia and make sure they see how important it is that they get out and vote these monsters out:

https://postcardstovoters.org/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 12:12:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 10:40:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 10:02:50 PM
Yeah that to me is a major concern for what happens in four years time too. Even if they don't have trump if they are of that ilk they won't be good. A more clever version of him would not be good.

It feels like a pipe dream etc but the guy just makes me nervous. He is a dangerous man.
I keep hearing about "a more clever version of Trump", but I'm not sure how you could have one

Surely the key point about Trump is that his outward comedy buffoonery is the perfect persona to put the fantasy world of make believe that is required into practice

A more outwardly clever but duller person would have a harder time doing it, and the dullness would mean they would not attract the same cultish following

The comedy buffoon element is essential

Tucker Carlson, Trump Junior, Ivanka Trump, Tom Cotton, Josh Hawley and Mike Pence don't have that comedy buffoon element, they're either dull, as in the case of Pence and Hawley, empty as in the case of Ivanka, or very outwardly nasty and threatening with no comedy element as in the case of Carlson and Trump Junior

Cotton is all three - dull, empty and threatening

So Trump is actually extremely clever in terms of strategy as regards what he is trying to carry out

Trump has created this almost parallel world of weirdness and novelty which never seems to wear off - him being president is like when a TV character from one series suddenly pops up in another series, like if JR Ewing had appeared in character in Glenroe

The scary thing is that I can see there being a very strange yet deep nostalgia for these last four years within quite a short time after January 20th - it has had the world transfixed - and that, I guess, is Trump's real victory - attention for him is like oxygen, and he has secured himself a place in infamy, he will be remembered forever no matter what

In a world where our popular culture has fragmented into a million pieces, nobody knows who's top of the charts and nobody watches the same things, the one element of world popular culture that everybody is familiar with and everybody has an opinion on is Trump

He has made American politics the new English football

He has been in some ways been a comforting figure mentally - whether you love him or hate him - and non-crazy people despise him

He has to an extent allowed the world to retreat into comforting certainties because everybody is so sure about their opinion of him - yet he has also demolished certainties within the minds of people - he has provoked a massive drive in people to learn, through both American history and world history, and psychology, about the true danger he today represents

He makes people feel energised either in cultish adulation or outright disgust, he makes people feel alive  - I myself have felt genuinely electrified and have had a very conscious sense of living through something huge over the last week

Yet conversely he also makes every day a mentally and emotionally draining grind - I suppose that why the last week has felt so electric

He is a throwback to a time when many major news stories were imagined as good v evil - and in this case, that good v evil narrative is actually true, because he is f**king appalling in a very real sense - a shameless, bloodsucking ghoul

If he didn't exist we would almost have had to invent him

I wonder if someone like Sean Hannity would fancy a presidential run. He's used to roaring at the camera, but it wouldn't be a huge leap to roaring at a crowd. And someone with an ego his size would probably relish it. He'd be a lot more dangerous than Trump because he might actually know where the levers of power are, as opposed to Donald "I hereby send this tweet and it shall be done" Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 01:16:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 11:59:26 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 09, 2020, 11:25:34 PM
Just reading up on Brendan Boyle. His father is from Glencolumbkille and emigrated in 1970.  Some story

Definitely a rising star

Hopefully AOC and the other Nazis don't take him out at the knees
The far right have lost their minds, that's why they're far right

To them, everybody left of the Nazis is a Nazi

Good example of that phenomenon here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 12:12:40 AM

I wonder if someone like Sean Hannity would fancy a presidential run. He's used to roaring at the camera, but it wouldn't be a huge leap to roaring at a crowd. And someone with an ego his size would probably relish it. He'd be a lot more dangerous than Trump because he might actually know where the levers of power are, as opposed to Donald "I hereby send this tweet and it shall be done" Trump.
Wouldn't massively surprise me

He's very Trump-like in his style and appearance and certainly has the ego

But Fox is widely despised, and Hannity has been a political operative all his life, he is despised outside of his echo chamber

Trump was despised too, mind

Carlson has a permanently scowling face and cannot smile

Hannity has perfected that fake, cheesy smile, almost a grin, beloved of so many right-wing Americans and a fake macho man image so you can see how he would attract a cult following around him

Don't know why I didn't think of him in my earlier post, actually

I agree he would be extremely dangerous



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 01:43:56 AM
Hear about the big conservative "exodus" from Facebook to Parler? Could be dangerous if they retreat even deeper into their echo-chamber. On the other hand it might go the same way as the old "Love Ulster" movement that tried a similar thing by setting up an online forum for loyalists a few years back, only for it to be overrun by fenian trolls taking the mick out of them.

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123797832_10157687039955906_2067539854800917847_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=3wx1PDcsT4YAX_ipFM-&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=8191f0637f94abf1270870ac7a8ae7e8&oe=5FD0855E)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:00:41 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 01:43:56 AM
Hear about the big conservative "exodus" from Facebook to Parler? Could be dangerous if they retreat even deeper into their echo-chamber. On the other hand it might go the same way as the old "Love Ulster" movement that tried a similar thing by setting up an online forum for loyalists a few years back, only for it to be overrun by fenian trolls taking the mick out of them.

It can only be a more extreme and more toxic echo chamber - like 4Chan and 8Chan

They've been trying to get critical mass for it for at least a couple of years I'd say and have failed

It will not get critical mass with a non far right audience in the same way that BitChute has not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:08:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 01:16:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2020, 11:59:26 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 09, 2020, 11:25:34 PM
Just reading up on Brendan Boyle. His father is from Glencolumbkille and emigrated in 1970.  Some story

Definitely a rising star

Hopefully AOC and the other Nazis don't take him out at the knees
The far right have lost their minds, that's why they're far right

To them, everybody left of the Nazis is a Nazi

Good example of that phenomenon here

You really don't know very much about American politics do you?

The Abortion crowd tried to take him out a few years ago to help get Chelsea Clinton's mother in law the seat but thankfully it didn't work

https://www.politicspa.com/pa-13-emilys-list-and-naral-join-together-to-take-down-boyle/57685/

If the "squad" want to put a woman of color in that safe Democratic seat, he's toast
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 10, 2020, 09:29:44 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 12:10:20 AM
Play your part in finishing the job of taking back the senate. Don't let these 2 remaining Georgia senate seats slip back into the hands of Mitch "block everything then blame the Democrats for getting nothing done" McConnell. Write postcards to Dem voters in Georgia and make sure they see how important it is that they get out and vote these monsters out:

https://postcardstovoters.org/

This is McConnell's game. Everyone knows the presidency is done. Him, Graham, everyone. The big concern for them now is the senate seats in Georgia and they're going to play ball with Trump ahead of the runoffs so they don't risk alienating those who voted for him there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:08:37 AM

You really don't know very much about American politics do you?

Keep sneering, keep living in that fantasy world of la la, keep projecting Nazism onto others

It's no wonder Trump lost

You need to start living in the real world

Nobody who does takes you seriously
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:08:37 AM

You really don't know very much about American politics do you?

Keep sneering, keep living in that fantasy world of la la, keep projecting Nazism onto others

It's no wonder Trump lost

You need to start living in the real world

Nobody who does takes you seriously

They might not like what I have to say but deep down they know I'm right

I had a good laugh last night when I read this interview with Gabriel Byrne who's live here for decades

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/catholicism-thrives-on-fear-gabriel-byrne-speaks-about-sexual-abuse-he-suffered-at-the-hands-of-the-church-in-his-memoir-39724722.html

The Usual Suspects star also spoke about the failures of the Democratic Party in really understanding the anger of the working class in America.

"This is the second time they've come up against a gameshow host and they've learned nothing. Again they seriously underestimated the level of anger among mostly blue-collar workers

"At least it's the end of that guy but, personally, I can't stand Biden. An exceptionalist roaring about America as the moral leader of the world, all this crap. You can't appeal to people in Maine or Wisconsin or Michigan by saying this is a battle for the soul of America. It's just political garbage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 12:40:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 12:11:43 PM

They might not like what I have to say but deep down they know I'm right

That's what Barry Goldwater said

He lost 486-52



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 01:08:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:08:37 AM

You really don't know very much about American politics do you?

Keep sneering, keep living in that fantasy world of la la, keep projecting Nazism onto others

It's no wonder Trump lost

You need to start living in the real world

Nobody who does takes you seriously

They might not like what I have to say but deep down they know I'm right

I had a good laugh last night when I read this interview with Gabriel Byrne who's live here for decades

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/catholicism-thrives-on-fear-gabriel-byrne-speaks-about-sexual-abuse-he-suffered-at-the-hands-of-the-church-in-his-memoir-39724722.html

The Usual Suspects star also spoke about the failures of the Democratic Party in really understanding the anger of the working class in America.

"This is the second time they've come up against a gameshow host and they've learned nothing. Again they seriously underestimated the level of anger among mostly blue-collar workers

"At least it's the end of that guy but, personally, I can't stand Biden. An exceptionalist roaring about America as the moral leader of the world, all this crap. You can't appeal to people in Maine or Wisconsin or Michigan by saying this is a battle for the soul of America. It's just political garbage.

Whitey, you're always so smug about the failures of the Democratic Party to represent the working class people, yet lacking in answers about WHAT they should be doing and what the GOP, presumably, ARE doing for them.

I've already said a couple of times in the past few days, I don't WANT the Democratic Party to compromise on decency and equality for all, regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation;  humane treatment for illegal immigrants; respect for science and expertise; acknowledgement of the reality of climate change and the value of protecting wildlife and wild spaces; sensible gun laws. I don't WANT the Democratic Party to become a deranged rabble, trading in conspiracy theories and grievance, like the GOP is rapidly becoming.

If that is what it takes to win the white working class, the GOP is welcome to them.

If on the other hand, the white working class wants lower taxes for the less wealthy, better access to health care and education, improved infrastructure and so on, I assure you the GOP is not interested in those things, but the Dems are.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
Oh-I'm far from smug

When I share what I see with my own two bloody eyes, having lived here for over thirty years,I'm accused of being some type of ultra right wing  zealot on here

It was interesting that someone brought up Brendan Boyle-I had heard him interviewed numerous times and was very impressed by him.

He got primaried from the left, accused of being anti choice.....which is absolutely ludicrous. So if I'm a regular working class "Joe lunch bucket Democrat"  in Boyle's district and let's say he gets unseated.....how's that going to sit with me?

Am I going to stand out holding a sign, contribute money or help mobilize for the new candidate?

Here is Boston, Marty Walsh is getting primaried from the left by a Harvard educated Asian Woman. Marty has done a phenomenal job, but let's say Ayanna Presley comes out and supports Michelle Wu and she unseats Marty. How are the Regan Democrats in South Boston and Quincy going to react to that? 

And then Marty will be painted as a climate denier in the same way that Boyle was painted as anti choice......ie a complete pile of steaming horse manure

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/policy/2020/08/24/michelle-wu-green-new-deal-boston/amp


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 01:59:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
Oh-I'm far from smug

When I share what I see with my own two bloody eyes, having lived here for over thirty years,I'm accused of being some type of ultra right wing  zealot on here

It was interesting that someone brought up Brendan Boyle-I had heard him interviewed numerous times and was very impressed by him.

He got primaried from the left, accused of being anti choice.....which is absolutely ludicrous. So if I'm a regular working class "Joe lunch bucket Democrat"  in Boyle's district and let's say he gets unseated.....how's that going to sit with me?

Am I going to stand out holding a sign, contribute money or help mobilize for the new candidate?

Here is Boston, Marty Walsh is getting primaried from the left by a Harvard educated Asian Woman. Marty has done a phenomenal job, but let's say Ayanna Presley comes out and supports Michelle Wu and she unseats Marty. How are the Regan Democrats in South Boston and Quincy going to react to that? 

And then Marty will be painted as a climate denier in the same way that Boyle was painted as anti choice......ie a complete pile of steaming horse manure

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/policy/2020/08/24/michelle-wu-green-new-deal-boston/amp

Lots of people get primaried. Both parties have always had fringes populated by unrealistic true believers. Only one has allowed it to fester and infect the whole body.

The GOP is being taken over lock, stock and barrel by the Trump/QAnon personality cult with a ludicrous, deranged charade currently taking place to assuage the mood of the lunatic king facilitated by a bunch of cynical/spineless, power-hungry phonys who are afraid of upsetting the Trump cultists.

Like I said, if Joe Sixpack from South Boston is less upset by the Trump/QAnon lunacy than some "elitest" Harvard liberal, then the GOP is welcome to him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
Oh-I'm far from smug

When I share what I see with my own two bloody eyes, having lived here for over thirty years,I'm accused of being some type of ultra right wing  zealot on here

There are no accusations needed, normal people who don't live a fantasy world of la la can see exactly what you are

It must take incredible effort to live somewhere for 30 years and still know nothing about the place

Suppose that's what happens when you take all your views from the stifling, stagnant right wing bubble of censorship and political correctness, the industrial bullshit machine

The DUP would be proud of your steadfastness

You remind me very much of those oul' fellas marching and clutching their rosary beads before the Eighth Amendment referendum, stuck in a mental 1954, stuck in a dystopian world of make believe, furious that they don't have access to a time machine


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:08:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 01:59:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
Oh-I'm far from smug

When I share what I see with my own two bloody eyes, having lived here for over thirty years,I'm accused of being some type of ultra right wing  zealot on here

It was interesting that someone brought up Brendan Boyle-I had heard him interviewed numerous times and was very impressed by him.

He got primaried from the left, accused of being anti choice.....which is absolutely ludicrous. So if I'm a regular working class "Joe lunch bucket Democrat"  in Boyle's district and let's say he gets unseated.....how's that going to sit with me?

Am I going to stand out holding a sign, contribute money or help mobilize for the new candidate?

Here is Boston, Marty Walsh is getting primaried from the left by a Harvard educated Asian Woman. Marty has done a phenomenal job, but let's say Ayanna Presley comes out and supports Michelle Wu and she unseats Marty. How are the Regan Democrats in South Boston and Quincy going to react to that? 

And then Marty will be painted as a climate denier in the same way that Boyle was painted as anti choice......ie a complete pile of steaming horse manure

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/policy/2020/08/24/michelle-wu-green-new-deal-boston/amp

Lots of people get primaried. Both parties have always had fringes populated by unrealistic true believers. Only one has allowed it to fester and infect the whole body.

The GOP is being taken over lock, stock and barrel by the Trump/QAnon personality cult with a ludicrous, deranged charade currently taking place to assuage the mood of the lunatic king facilitated by a bunch of cynical/spineless, power-hungry phonys who are afraid of upsetting the Trump cultists.

Like I said, if Joe Sixpack from South Boston is less upset by the Trump/QAnon lunacy than some "elitest" Harvard liberal, then the GOP is welcome to him.

Wow, J70......that's some arrogance on your end......"listen to and obey your betters" springs to mind

So you're okay with Boyle being accused of being anti choice and Marty being accused of being a climate denier by the fringes of your party?
.

And that my friends is exactly the attitude that's costing the Democrats votes from lifelong supporters....the hijacking of the Working mans/woman's party by the urban elitists and extreme left
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:10:35 PM
The white supremacist must have completely tuned out of the news at 10pm last Tuesday

Somebody should tell him  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:14:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:19:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:08:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 01:59:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
Oh-I'm far from smug

When I share what I see with my own two bloody eyes, having lived here for over thirty years,I'm accused of being some type of ultra right wing  zealot on here

It was interesting that someone brought up Brendan Boyle-I had heard him interviewed numerous times and was very impressed by him.

He got primaried from the left, accused of being anti choice.....which is absolutely ludicrous. So if I'm a regular working class "Joe lunch bucket Democrat"  in Boyle's district and let's say he gets unseated.....how's that going to sit with me?

Am I going to stand out holding a sign, contribute money or help mobilize for the new candidate?

Here is Boston, Marty Walsh is getting primaried from the left by a Harvard educated Asian Woman. Marty has done a phenomenal job, but let's say Ayanna Presley comes out and supports Michelle Wu and she unseats Marty. How are the Regan Democrats in South Boston and Quincy going to react to that? 

And then Marty will be painted as a climate denier in the same way that Boyle was painted as anti choice......ie a complete pile of steaming horse manure

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/policy/2020/08/24/michelle-wu-green-new-deal-boston/amp

Lots of people get primaried. Both parties have always had fringes populated by unrealistic true believers. Only one has allowed it to fester and infect the whole body.

The GOP is being taken over lock, stock and barrel by the Trump/QAnon personality cult with a ludicrous, deranged charade currently taking place to assuage the mood of the lunatic king facilitated by a bunch of cynical/spineless, power-hungry phonys who are afraid of upsetting the Trump cultists.

Like I said, if Joe Sixpack from South Boston is less upset by the Trump/QAnon lunacy than some "elitest" Harvard liberal, then the GOP is welcome to him.

So you're okay with Boyle being accused of being anti choice and Marty being accused of being a climate denier?

Wow, J70......that's some arrogance on your end......"listen to and obey your betters" springs to mind.

And that my friends is exactly the attitude that's costing the Democrats votes from lifelong supporters....the hijacking of the Working mans/woman's party by the urban elitists and extreme left

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I was ok with that. I don't know anything about the specifics of each case. And I'm sure each man has his own operation to counter the rhetoric and lies, if applicable, being leveled against them (I'm pretty f**king certain any man who is mayor of Boston does).

And spare us the elitest bollocks.

On the GOP side you have an entire party now dedicated to the idea that there is no such thing as expertise or knowledge and that anyone who tries to tell them otherwise is some elitest talking down to them. And half the frauds spouting this nonsense are themselves rich professionals educated at elite universities and coming from wealthy backgrounds.

Its pretty f**king clear which is the more dangerous for society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:14:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college.

;D ;D ;D


Lol

You are ignoring the 2 most important words "crazy" and "could".


I never said it would happen, I said it could happen, and he did get 8 Million more votes than he did in 2016
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:34:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:19:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:08:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 01:59:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
Oh-I'm far from smug

When I share what I see with my own two bloody eyes, having lived here for over thirty years,I'm accused of being some type of ultra right wing  zealot on here

It was interesting that someone brought up Brendan Boyle-I had heard him interviewed numerous times and was very impressed by him.

He got primaried from the left, accused of being anti choice.....which is absolutely ludicrous. So if I'm a regular working class "Joe lunch bucket Democrat"  in Boyle's district and let's say he gets unseated.....how's that going to sit with me?

Am I going to stand out holding a sign, contribute money or help mobilize for the new candidate?

Here is Boston, Marty Walsh is getting primaried from the left by a Harvard educated Asian Woman. Marty has done a phenomenal job, but let's say Ayanna Presley comes out and supports Michelle Wu and she unseats Marty. How are the Regan Democrats in South Boston and Quincy going to react to that? 

And then Marty will be painted as a climate denier in the same way that Boyle was painted as anti choice......ie a complete pile of steaming horse manure

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/policy/2020/08/24/michelle-wu-green-new-deal-boston/amp

Lots of people get primaried. Both parties have always had fringes populated by unrealistic true believers. Only one has allowed it to fester and infect the whole body.

The GOP is being taken over lock, stock and barrel by the Trump/QAnon personality cult with a ludicrous, deranged charade currently taking place to assuage the mood of the lunatic king facilitated by a bunch of cynical/spineless, power-hungry phonys who are afraid of upsetting the Trump cultists.

Like I said, if Joe Sixpack from South Boston is less upset by the Trump/QAnon lunacy than some "elitest" Harvard liberal, then the GOP is welcome to him.

So you're okay with Boyle being accused of being anti choice and Marty being accused of being a climate denier?

Wow, J70......that's some arrogance on your end......"listen to and obey your betters" springs to mind.

And that my friends is exactly the attitude that's costing the Democrats votes from lifelong supporters....the hijacking of the Working mans/woman's party by the urban elitists and extreme left

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I was ok with that. I don't know anything about the specifics of each case. And I'm sure each man has his own operation to counter the rhetoric and lies, if applicable, being leveled against them (I'm pretty f**king certain any man who is mayor of Boston does).

And spare us the elitest bollocks.

On the GOP side you have an entire party now dedicated to the idea that there is no such thing as expertise or knowledge and that anyone who tries to tell them otherwise is some elitest talking down to them. And half the frauds spouting this nonsense are themselves rich professionals educated at elite universities and coming from wealthy backgrounds.

Its pretty f**king clear which is the more dangerous for society.

No-that's EXACTLY what you said

If a regular decent old fashioned Democrat gets beaten in a primary by a pack of lies and a celebrity endorsement of their opponent, Then their supporters should just shut the fvck up and take it.

FFS, here in MA fvckin Barney Frank had to come out of retirement and tell a Planned Parenthood affiliate to stop lying about the records of 2 of the candidates looking to replace Joe Kennedy

Maybe you live in a bubble.....it's completely out of control and the unwillingness to accept its a problem, is actually a bigger issue than the problem itself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:39:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:14:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college.

;D ;D ;D


Lol

You are ignoring the 2 most important words "crazy" and "could".


I never said it would happen, I said it could happen, and he did get 8 Million more votes than he did in 2016
He's squirming, this is tremendous  ;D

Your use of the word crazy in relation to yourself is noted, perhaps a tiny drop of self awareness is finally permeating that bubble?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:41:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:34:10 PM
Maybe you live in a bubble.....
Project, project, project!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:43:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:39:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:14:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2020, 01:05:34 AM

I will also make a crazy prediction....I actually think Trump could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college.

;D ;D ;D


Lol

You are ignoring the 2 most important words "crazy" and "could".


I never said it would happen, I said it could happen, and he did get 8 Million more votes than he did in 2016
He's squirming, this is tremendous  ;D

Your use of the word crazy in relation to yourself is noted, perhaps a tiny drop of self awareness is finally permeating that bubble?


YYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:45:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:34:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:19:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:08:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 01:59:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
Oh-I'm far from smug

When I share what I see with my own two bloody eyes, having lived here for over thirty years,I'm accused of being some type of ultra right wing  zealot on here

It was interesting that someone brought up Brendan Boyle-I had heard him interviewed numerous times and was very impressed by him.

He got primaried from the left, accused of being anti choice.....which is absolutely ludicrous. So if I'm a regular working class "Joe lunch bucket Democrat"  in Boyle's district and let's say he gets unseated.....how's that going to sit with me?

Am I going to stand out holding a sign, contribute money or help mobilize for the new candidate?

Here is Boston, Marty Walsh is getting primaried from the left by a Harvard educated Asian Woman. Marty has done a phenomenal job, but let's say Ayanna Presley comes out and supports Michelle Wu and she unseats Marty. How are the Regan Democrats in South Boston and Quincy going to react to that? 

And then Marty will be painted as a climate denier in the same way that Boyle was painted as anti choice......ie a complete pile of steaming horse manure

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/policy/2020/08/24/michelle-wu-green-new-deal-boston/amp

Lots of people get primaried. Both parties have always had fringes populated by unrealistic true believers. Only one has allowed it to fester and infect the whole body.

The GOP is being taken over lock, stock and barrel by the Trump/QAnon personality cult with a ludicrous, deranged charade currently taking place to assuage the mood of the lunatic king facilitated by a bunch of cynical/spineless, power-hungry phonys who are afraid of upsetting the Trump cultists.

Like I said, if Joe Sixpack from South Boston is less upset by the Trump/QAnon lunacy than some "elitest" Harvard liberal, then the GOP is welcome to him.

So you're okay with Boyle being accused of being anti choice and Marty being accused of being a climate denier?

Wow, J70......that's some arrogance on your end......"listen to and obey your betters" springs to mind.

And that my friends is exactly the attitude that's costing the Democrats votes from lifelong supporters....the hijacking of the Working mans/woman's party by the urban elitists and extreme left

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I was ok with that. I don't know anything about the specifics of each case. And I'm sure each man has his own operation to counter the rhetoric and lies, if applicable, being leveled against them (I'm pretty f**king certain any man who is mayor of Boston does).

And spare us the elitest bollocks.

On the GOP side you have an entire party now dedicated to the idea that there is no such thing as expertise or knowledge and that anyone who tries to tell them otherwise is some elitest talking down to them. And half the frauds spouting this nonsense are themselves rich professionals educated at elite universities and coming from wealthy backgrounds.

Its pretty f**king clear which is the more dangerous for society.

No-that's EXACTLY what you said

If a regular decent old fashioned Democrat gets beaten in a primary by a pack of lies and a celebrity endorsement of their opponent, Then their supporters should just shut the fvck up and take it.

FFS, here in MA fvckin Barney Frank had to come out of retirement and tell a Planned Parenthood affiliate to stop lying about the records of 2 of the candidates looking to replace Joe Kennedy

Maybe you live in a bubble.....it's completely out of control and the unwillingness to accept its a problem, is actually a bigger issue than the problem itself

No, its NOT what I said.

I said both parties have extremes, but only one has allowed the extremes to take over. That means that most of the Democratic extremists are beaten back, in case you can't extrapolate.

And if someone is LESS offended by the extremist GOP party as a whole than some individual Democrat, then the GOP is welcome to them.

FFS the Dems nominated a mild centrist for president, and you're here lecturing us about Democratic extremism and elitests.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:43:49 PM

YYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNN
One of your more articulate, considered posts, to be fair
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:43:49 PM

YYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNN
One of your more articulate, considered posts, to be fair

YYYYYAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNNN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:57:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!
You need to look up what "extremist coup" is because you haven't the faintest idea of what it is

It's what the Republicans are currently trying to carry out

You literally haven't the first clue about how American democracy works
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:43:49 PM

YYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNN
One of your more articulate, considered posts, to be fair

YYYYYAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNNN
I think you've dropped some whiskey on your keyboard

Very early in the day for it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Big difference between a party putting up a candidate you don't like and a party taking out a really good candidate that you do like, through lies distortions and outside money and endorsements
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Big difference between a party putting up a candidate you don't like and a party taking out a really good candidate that you do like, through lies distortions and outside money and endorsements
You don't understand the American democratic process
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:26:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Big difference between a party putting up a candidate you don't like and a party taking out a really good candidate that you do like, through lies distortions and outside money and endorsements
You don't understand the American democratic process

YYYYYYAAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 03:28:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:26:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Big difference between a party putting up a candidate you don't like and a party taking out a really good candidate that you do like, through lies distortions and outside money and endorsements
You don't understand the American democratic process

YYYYYYAAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNN
Get that keyboard fixed

And learn about the American democratic process for selecting candidates

Because you haven't a clue about it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:30:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 03:28:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:26:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Big difference between a party putting up a candidate you don't like and a party taking out a really good candidate that you do like, through lies distortions and outside money and endorsements
You don't understand the American democratic process

YYYYYYAAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNN
Get that keyboard fixed

And learn about the American democratic process for selecting candidates

Because you haven't a clue about it


YYYYYYYAAAAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNN
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 03:40:41 PM
Get some kip whitey, you badly need it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
Extreme Republicans want to ban abortion, stop you getting the healthcare coverage that you need, stop minorities from voting, ban immigration, deport the undocumented, steal children from their parents and traffic them away, and force religion down everyone's throats, unionist style.

Extreme Democrats want to give everyone healthcare.

I know which "extreme" I'm more comfortable with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Big difference between a party putting up a candidate you don't like and a party taking out a really good candidate that you do like, through lies distortions and outside money and endorsements

So your alternative is to go to the GOP who are proudly defined by lies, distortions and outside money and endorsements??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 10, 2020, 04:00:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
Extreme Republicans want to ban abortion, stop you getting the healthcare coverage that you need, stop minorities from voting, ban immigration, and force religion down everyone's throats, unionist style.

Extreme Democrats want to give everyone healthcare.

I know which "extreme" I'm more comfortable with.

I don't necessarily agree that it's just as simple as that but I never understood the American aversion to universal healthcare (especially among 'working class' folks).

It's something which is looked upon very positively by almost all in the UK (barring the Farage/Rees-Mogg/Old Money types).

And lets face it, the UK is hardly a bastion of socialism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 04:10:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Big difference between a party putting up a candidate you don't like and a party taking out a really good candidate that you do like, through lies distortions and outside money and endorsements

So your alternative is to go to the GOP who are proudly defined by lies, distortions and outside money and endorsements??

LOL-

J70......did it ever occur to you that if theyre willing to make up a pack of lies about a moderate Democrat, theyll do exactly the same thing to a moderate Republican. 

Maybe the Republican these disgruntled Democrat is now voting for isn't exactly as bad as the extreme left is painting him/her

Mitt Romney and John McCain spring to mind

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/bill-maher-democrats-trump-romney-mccain-2016-11%3famp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 04:25:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 04:10:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Big difference between a party putting up a candidate you don't like and a party taking out a really good candidate that you do like, through lies distortions and outside money and endorsements

So your alternative is to go to the GOP who are proudly defined by lies, distortions and outside money and endorsements??

LOL-

J70......did it ever occur to you that if theyre willing to make up a pack of lies about a moderate Democrat, theyll do exactly the same thing to a moderate Republican. 

Maybe the Republican these disgruntled Democrat is now voting for isn't exactly as bad as the extreme left is painting him/her

Mitt Romney and John McCain spring to mind

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/bill-maher-democrats-trump-romney-mccain-2016-11%3famp

1.Can't you make your own argument?

2. Maher is making a point in the light of how extreme TRUMP is. That the GOP doubled down and took their ideological evolution to its logical conclusion is NOT a plus point for your argument. And its not the fault of the Democrats.

3. Romney and McCain were NOT painted as extremists or lied about. FFS Romney was labeled in the primaries (by his GOP colleagues) as a "vulture capitalist" on acccount of his work at Bain. HE made the 47% remark. He ran a campaign based on "makers and takers". McCain launched the odious Sarah Palin, basically the proto-Trump, onto the national landscape. He could have went with his preferred option, Joe Lieberman, but he gave in to the party to shore up the extremist GOP base. Both are/were way, way above Trump as men and politicians, but they were not subjected to anything out of the ordinary in terms of US political discourse. In case you've forgotten, the GOP and the right wing media went crazy with Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers and the birther/muslim shit.

4. You still haven't explained why the current GOP is apparently a better option for the disgruntled white working class dude than the current Democratic Party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 04:25:30 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 10, 2020, 04:00:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
Extreme Republicans want to ban abortion, stop you getting the healthcare coverage that you need, stop minorities from voting, ban immigration, and force religion down everyone's throats, unionist style.

Extreme Democrats want to give everyone healthcare.

I know which "extreme" I'm more comfortable with.

I don't necessarily agree that it's just as simple as that but I never understood the American aversion to universal healthcare (especially among 'working class' folks).

It's something which is looked upon very positively by almost all in the UK (barring the Farage/Rees-Mogg/Old Money types).

And lets face it, the UK is hardly a bastion of socialism.
It pretty much is as simple as that though

The aversion to universal healthcare in the US comes from many decades of pearl clutching, fear mongering, McCarthyite propaganda

Wendell Potter, a former private healthcare executive turned whistle blower, has written some good stuff about how they frame a terrible private insurance system as something good, through positive trigger words

https://twitter.com/wendellpotter/status/1206623259698974724
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 04:25:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 04:10:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Well maybe it a not what you intended to say, but it's what you said.

If you don't accept an extremist coup against a perfectly good decent Democrat, then the GOP are welcome to you

Don't believe me.....people in your own party are saying it!

Its a two-party system.

Sometimes your own party is going to put up a candidate you don't like.

When that happens, you're option is to stick with your own party, to abstain, or to vote for the other party.

In this case, the other party has sold its soul to an irrational, anti-intellectual rabble that is currently a personality cult in the service of Donald Trump.

If the occasional objectionable candidate from your own party is driving you into the arms of the GOP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Big difference between a party putting up a candidate you don't like and a party taking out a really good candidate that you do like, through lies distortions and outside money and endorsements

So your alternative is to go to the GOP who are proudly defined by lies, distortions and outside money and endorsements??

LOL-

J70......did it ever occur to you that if theyre willing to make up a pack of lies about a moderate Democrat, theyll do exactly the same thing to a moderate Republican. 

Maybe the Republican these disgruntled Democrat is now voting for isn't exactly as bad as the extreme left is painting him/her

Mitt Romney and John McCain spring to mind

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/bill-maher-democrats-trump-romney-mccain-2016-11%3famp

1.Can't you make your own argument?

2. Maher is making a point in the light of how extreme TRUMP is. That the GOP doubled down and took their ideological evolution to its logical conclusion is NOT a plus point for your argument. And its not the fault of the Democrats.

3. Romney and McCain were NOT painted as extremists or lied about. FFS Romney was labeled in the primaries (by his GOP colleagues) as a "vulture capitalist" on acccount of his work at Bain. HE made the 47% remark. He ran a campaign based on "makers and takers". McCain launched the odious Sarah Palin, basically the proto-Trump, onto the national landscape. He could have went with his preferred option, Joe Lieberman, but he gave in to the party to shore up the extremist GOP base. Both are/were way, way above Trump as men and politicians, but they were not subjected to anything out of the ordinary in terms of US political discourse. In case you've forgotten, the GOP and the right wing media went crazy with Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers and the birther/muslim shit.

4. You still haven't explained why the current GOP is apparently a better option for the disgruntled white working class dude than the current Democratic Party.

Forget about McCain and Romney for a moment....I shouldn't have included that as it only opened up a whole different discussion

Let's say I'm a huge Brendan Boyle supporter and my guy gets taken out in a primary by gross misrepresention of his record.....I'll go as far as saying flat out lies. And let's say this race gets flooded with Huge outside money that Boyle can't compete with.

Okay now it's general election time and there's a halfway decent middle of the road Republican candidate up against the person who just ousted Boyle......am I going to automatically vote for the Democrat?

And just because the Democrats paint the Republican as some type of extremist,  doesn't mean I'm buying it, because these same people just painted my guy as something he's not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 04:56:37 PM
I'm not denying there may be a few decent Republicans out there. I've no issue with people like Ben Sasse, who I would oppose completely politically, but who at least is a decent, mainstream politician. I've no issue with men like the GOP governors of VT, MA and MD, all moderates.

But these are not powerful politicians on a national scale, and never will be, because they are unacceptable to the GOP as candidates for national office. Charlie Baker or Larry Hogan or someone like them will NEVER be president or nominated for president, at least by the GOP.

I'm talking about all the white working class people who went with Trump, especially this time out when a man like Biden was available to them as an option.

Are you saying that all of these people, after all these time, reject that Trump is an extremist?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 10, 2020, 04:59:51 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 10, 2020, 04:00:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
Extreme Republicans want to ban abortion, stop you getting the healthcare coverage that you need, stop minorities from voting, ban immigration, and force religion down everyone's throats, unionist style.

Extreme Democrats want to give everyone healthcare.

I know which "extreme" I'm more comfortable with.

I don't necessarily agree that it's just as simple as that but I never understood the American aversion to universal healthcare (especially among 'working class' folks).

It's something which is looked upon very positively by almost all in the UK (barring the Farage/Rees-Mogg/Old Money types).

And lets face it, the UK is hardly a bastion of socialism.

I agree I mean on the face of it Universal Healthcare is a hugely positive thing for everyone isn't it??

Having said that "The American Dream" means that everyone thinks they can be rich and they don't want to ne the one to have to pay for anyone else. The same thing with Biden's tax hike.

The tax hike was for those people who make over $400k a year (and only a tax on the earnings you make above $400k)  which is about 1.8% of the population yet it was roundly unpopular. Most people think they will make it big and so even though they're not making the money now they don't want to have to be paying more in the future.

It's a very positive mindset for the long term but seems like many are cutting their nose off to spite their face!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 04:56:37 PM
I'm not denying there may be a few decent Republicans out there. I've no issue with people like Ben Sasse, who I would oppose completely politically, but who at least is a decent, mainstream politician. I've no issue with men like the GOP governors of VT, MA and MD, all moderates.

But these are not powerful politicians on a national scale, and never will be, because they are unacceptable to the GOP as candidates for national office. Charlie Baker or Larry Hogan or someone like them will NEVER be president or nominated for president, at least by the GOP.

I'm talking about all the white working class people who went with Trump, especially this time out when a man like Biden was available to them as an option.

Are you saying that all of these people, after all these time, reject that Trump is an extremist?

FFS Hickenlooper was so afraid of the squad and the Bernie Bro's he couldn't even admit to being a capitalist on National TV.....you're waaayyy underestimating the power these people have. So if I'm a swing voter in CO how do I not view Hickenlooper as just a lackey for the far left

And how many working class people have family members in law enforcement ?  Quite a few that I know have

Joes campaign staff contributed to a bail fund for people who participated in a riot where officers were seriously injured....how do you think that would sit with these people. They might not like the Republican but they sure as heck aren't going to vote for the Democrat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 05:30:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 04:56:37 PM
I'm not denying there may be a few decent Republicans out there. I've no issue with people like Ben Sasse, who I would oppose completely politically, but who at least is a decent, mainstream politician. I've no issue with men like the GOP governors of VT, MA and MD, all moderates.

But these are not powerful politicians on a national scale, and never will be, because they are unacceptable to the GOP as candidates for national office. Charlie Baker or Larry Hogan or someone like them will NEVER be president or nominated for president, at least by the GOP.

I'm talking about all the white working class people who went with Trump, especially this time out when a man like Biden was available to them as an option.

Are you saying that all of these people, after all these time, reject that Trump is an extremist?
People like Sasse and Baker may not be fascists themselves but they have not spoken out against it

This is the phenomemon of the "Good German"

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

This is as true today as it was in the 1930s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 05:32:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 04:56:37 PM
I'm not denying there may be a few decent Republicans out there. I've no issue with people like Ben Sasse, who I would oppose completely politically, but who at least is a decent, mainstream politician. I've no issue with men like the GOP governors of VT, MA and MD, all moderates.

But these are not powerful politicians on a national scale, and never will be, because they are unacceptable to the GOP as candidates for national office. Charlie Baker or Larry Hogan or someone like them will NEVER be president or nominated for president, at least by the GOP.

I'm talking about all the white working class people who went with Trump, especially this time out when a man like Biden was available to them as an option.

Are you saying that all of these people, after all these time, reject that Trump is an extremist?

FFS Hickenlooper was so afraid of the squad and the Bernie Bro's he couldn't even admit to being a capitalist on National TV.....you're waaayyy underestimating the power these people have. So if I'm a swing voter in CO how do I not view Hickenlooper as just a lackey for the far left

And how many working class people have family members in law enforcement ?  Quite a few that I know have

Joes campaign staff contributed to a bail fund for people who participated in a riot where officers were seriously injured....how do you think that would sit with these people. They might not like the Republican but they sure as heck aren't going to vote for the Democrat

Hickenlooper was the governor of CO for christ's sake. I think the people of CO were likely well aware of what he stood for. And if he didn't have the balls to stand up to the Bernie bros, that's on him. Must be partly why he got nowhere in his presidential campaign.

And so what if some Biden staffers contributed to the bail fund? If cop families are that sensitive to this specific issue, I wonder what they'd find if they looked into the contributions of Republican staffers? The candidate himself was pretty clear where he stood on the riots and policing. Are all GOP candidates beholden to the views and contributions of individual staff members on their campaign, including those way down on the totem pole? How many staffers does a typical presidential campaign have?

Are these cop families happy with the views of Stephen Miller or Jeff Sessions or Steve Bannon or Paul Manafort or any of the multitudes of other Trump campaign people?

You bend over backwards to excuse those who vote for Trump, putting as much blame as you can on Democrats.

Maybe they just f**king agree with his odious opinions and worldview.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 05:34:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 05:30:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 04:56:37 PM
I'm not denying there may be a few decent Republicans out there. I've no issue with people like Ben Sasse, who I would oppose completely politically, but who at least is a decent, mainstream politician. I've no issue with men like the GOP governors of VT, MA and MD, all moderates.

But these are not powerful politicians on a national scale, and never will be, because they are unacceptable to the GOP as candidates for national office. Charlie Baker or Larry Hogan or someone like them will NEVER be president or nominated for president, at least by the GOP.

I'm talking about all the white working class people who went with Trump, especially this time out when a man like Biden was available to them as an option.

Are you saying that all of these people, after all these time, reject that Trump is an extremist?
People like Sasse and Baker may not be fascists themselves but they have not spoken out against it

This is the phenomemon of the "Good German"

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

This is as true today as it was in the 1930s

I'll take what I can get with the current GOP.

Very few of them are willing to stick their head above the parapet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2020, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 05:32:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 04:56:37 PM
I'm not denying there may be a few decent Republicans out there. I've no issue with people like Ben Sasse, who I would oppose completely politically, but who at least is a decent, mainstream politician. I've no issue with men like the GOP governors of VT, MA and MD, all moderates.

But these are not powerful politicians on a national scale, and never will be, because they are unacceptable to the GOP as candidates for national office. Charlie Baker or Larry Hogan or someone like them will NEVER be president or nominated for president, at least by the GOP.

I'm talking about all the white working class people who went with Trump, especially this time out when a man like Biden was available to them as an option.

Are you saying that all of these people, after all these time, reject that Trump is an extremist?

FFS Hickenlooper was so afraid of the squad and the Bernie Bro's he couldn't even admit to being a capitalist on National TV.....you're waaayyy underestimating the power these people have. So if I'm a swing voter in CO how do I not view Hickenlooper as just a lackey for the far left

And how many working class people have family members in law enforcement ?  Quite a few that I know have

Joes campaign staff contributed to a bail fund for people who participated in a riot where officers were seriously injured....how do you think that would sit with these people. They might not like the Republican but they sure as heck aren't going to vote for the Democrat

Hickenlooper was the governor of CO for christ's sake. I think the people of CO were likely well aware of what he stood for. And if he didn't have the balls to stand up to the Bernie bros, that's on him. Must be partly why he got nowhere in his presidential campaign.

And so what if some Biden staffers contributed to the bail fund? If cop families are that sensitive to this specific issue, I wonder what they'd find if they looked into the contributions of Republican staffers? The candidate himself was pretty clear where he stood on the riots and policing. Are all GOP candidates beholden to the views and contributions of individual staff members on their campaign, including those way down on the totem pole? How many staffers does a typical presidential campaign have?

Are these cop families happy with the views of Stephen Miller or Jeff Sessions or Steve Bannon or Paul Manafort or any of the multitudes of other Trump campaign people?

You bend over backwards to excuse those who vote for Trump, putting as much blame as you can on Democrats.

Maybe they just f**king agree with his odious opinions and worldview.


Wow....more elitism!!!! Assuming the cops are guys your whusbands/fathers/brothers/nephews lives are in danger and Here's you are  accusing them of being snowflakes and that they should just shut the f up and deal with it

We already had the situation where people who had worked in the Obama administration bailed out people who firebombed a police car in NYC

And just this past weekend a former Nadler staffer got arrested for spitting in the face of an NYPD officer

What I think you are Missing is that while many people dislike/despise Trump, they actually dislike/despise the Democrats just a little bit more.

Anyway-I said I'd let myself come back in for a week after the election

Enough time wasted.......talk to you in the New Year

Good luck to everyone.......stay safe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 06:03:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 05:32:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 04:56:37 PM
I'm not denying there may be a few decent Republicans out there. I've no issue with people like Ben Sasse, who I would oppose completely politically, but who at least is a decent, mainstream politician. I've no issue with men like the GOP governors of VT, MA and MD, all moderates.

But these are not powerful politicians on a national scale, and never will be, because they are unacceptable to the GOP as candidates for national office. Charlie Baker or Larry Hogan or someone like them will NEVER be president or nominated for president, at least by the GOP.

I'm talking about all the white working class people who went with Trump, especially this time out when a man like Biden was available to them as an option.

Are you saying that all of these people, after all these time, reject that Trump is an extremist?

FFS Hickenlooper was so afraid of the squad and the Bernie Bro's he couldn't even admit to being a capitalist on National TV.....you're waaayyy underestimating the power these people have. So if I'm a swing voter in CO how do I not view Hickenlooper as just a lackey for the far left

And how many working class people have family members in law enforcement ?  Quite a few that I know have

Joes campaign staff contributed to a bail fund for people who participated in a riot where officers were seriously injured....how do you think that would sit with these people. They might not like the Republican but they sure as heck aren't going to vote for the Democrat

Hickenlooper was the governor of CO for christ's sake. I think the people of CO were likely well aware of what he stood for. And if he didn't have the balls to stand up to the Bernie bros, that's on him. Must be partly why he got nowhere in his presidential campaign.

And so what if some Biden staffers contributed to the bail fund? If cop families are that sensitive to this specific issue, I wonder what they'd find if they looked into the contributions of Republican staffers? The candidate himself was pretty clear where he stood on the riots and policing. Are all GOP candidates beholden to the views and contributions of individual staff members on their campaign, including those way down on the totem pole? How many staffers does a typical presidential campaign have?

Are these cop families happy with the views of Stephen Miller or Jeff Sessions or Steve Bannon or Paul Manafort or any of the multitudes of other Trump campaign people?

You bend over backwards to excuse those who vote for Trump, putting as much blame as you can on Democrats.

Maybe they just f**king agree with his odious opinions and worldview.


Wow....more elitism!!!! Assuming the cops are guys your whusbands/fathers/brothers/nephews lives are in danger and Here's you are  accusing them of being snowflakes and that they should just shut the f up and deal with it

We already had the situation where people who had worked in the Obama administration bailed out people who firebombed a police car in NYC

And just this past weekend a former Nadler staffer got arrested for spitting in the face of an NYPD officer

What I think you are Missing is that while many people dislike/despise Trump, they actually dislike/despise the Democrats just a little bit more.

Anyway-I said I'd let myself come back in for a week after the election

Enough time wasted.......talk to you in the New Year

Good luck to everyone.......stay safe

There's nothing elitest about questioning why someone would attach so much more importance to the actions and views of lowly campaign staffers, which exist in opposition to the platform of the candidate, when the actions and views of high level campaign and administration staffers of the favoured side are on full display and impacting policy.

If you want to argue by anecdote, there is tonnes of stuff out there in terms of Trump people, and cops too.

The more relevant stuff is the actions and policies of the candidates themselves.

And I'm sorry, but some "minor staffer did this" is no excuse. Its just looking for one.

That said, have a good christmas and all Ireland series.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 06:24:06 PM
Democrats need to start taking this deadly seriously

The American Nazi Party is trying to force a contingent election and steal it based on state delegations - and they have 26 of the 50

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1326227901654642695

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo: "There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
There will be blood in the streets if they try to pull off that shit.

Fascists like Mark Levin on Fox have also apparently been advocating for GOP state legislatures in places like PA to send Trump electors instead of those chosen by the voters, but so far there doesn't seem to be any enthusiasm among the actual people who'd have to make the moves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 08:16:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
There will be blood in the streets if they try to pull off that shit.

Fascists like Mark Levin on Fox have also apparently been advocating for GOP state legislatures in places like PA to send Trump electors instead of those chosen by the voters, but so far there doesn't seem to be any enthusiasm among the actual people who'd have to make the moves.
Trump has 50 million cultists out there to make sure they do

All it takes is a contingent election, ie. Biden doesn't reach 270 in the actual Electoral College vote

And then good luck relying on Liz Cheney in the House to prevent the abolition of democracy, and good night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 10, 2020, 08:36:02 PM
Tillis  holds on for win in North Carolina Important win .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on November 10, 2020, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
There will be blood in the streets if they try to pull off that shit.

Fascists like Mark Levin on Fox have also apparently been advocating for GOP state legislatures in places like PA to send Trump electors instead of those chosen by the voters, but so far there doesn't seem to be any enthusiasm among the actual people who'd have to make the moves.

He had Ken Starr on yesterday telling him that was ok to help justify it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 09:06:29 PM
Blacks are turning against Obama

Blacks like Dean Browning

Here's Dean's Twitter bio:

"Former Lehigh County Commissioner. A proud pro-life & pro-2A Christian conservative dedicated to enacting common sense solutions to Keep America Great."

You might notice something about Dean

Forgetting to log in to sock puppet accounts can be a hoor

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmfYnbVVgAAFZh-?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2020, 10:56:52 PM
I see Donny has installed a few more stooges in the Pentagon. Ready to send the troops onto the streets?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 11:27:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2020, 10:56:52 PM
I see Donny has installed a few more stooges in the Pentagon. Ready to send the troops onto the streets?
The threat should not be underestimated

If the last five years has taught us anything at all, it is to never underestimate the threat of Trump and the lengths he is willing to go to to get his way

He is mentally unstable, desperate, and an asset of Russia

Scholars of authoritarianism have consistently warned that if he was beaten, the period between his defeat and January 20th would be very dangerous, the most dangerous time of all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 11:38:19 PM
I wouldn't put it past him to lob a few missiles at Iran just for the craic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 10, 2020, 11:46:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 04:25:30 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 10, 2020, 04:00:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
Extreme Republicans want to ban abortion, stop you getting the healthcare coverage that you need, stop minorities from voting, ban immigration, and force religion down everyone's throats, unionist style.

Extreme Democrats want to give everyone healthcare.

I know which "extreme" I'm more comfortable with.

I don't necessarily agree that it's just as simple as that but I never understood the American aversion to universal healthcare (especially among 'working class' folks).

It's something which is looked upon very positively by almost all in the UK (barring the Farage/Rees-Mogg/Old Money types).

And lets face it, the UK is hardly a bastion of socialism.
It pretty much is as simple as that though

The aversion to universal healthcare in the US comes from many decades of pearl clutching, fear mongering, McCarthyite propaganda

Wendell Potter, a former private healthcare executive turned whistle blower, has written some good stuff about how they frame a terrible private insurance system as something good, through positive trigger words

https://twitter.com/wendellpotter/status/1206623259698974724

Interesting stuff there.  Disappointing that some of the Democrats seem to have taken the proverbial soup in this regard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
You reckon Trump, Giuliani and the GOP are going to acknowledge this?

Another James O'Keefe/Project Veritas masterpiece.

f**king scum.

Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on November 10, 2020, 11:51:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 11:38:19 PM
I wouldn't put it past him to lob a few missiles at Iran just for the craic.

Honestly, I don't think anything can be ruled out at this stage.

Also, WTF is Pompeo playing at?

The journalists have really been badly exposed by this whole debacle though.  The minute it looked like Biden had clinched it and they no longer needed access to Trump, they started behaving like actual journalists again and calling out the fool on his bullshit.

Watch Kuenssberg, Peston, Marr & Co drop Boris like a stone when his time comes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 11, 2020, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 10, 2020, 11:51:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 11:38:19 PM
I wouldn't put it past him to lob a few missiles at Iran just for the craic.

Honestly, I don't think anything can be ruled out at this stage.

Also, WTF is Pompeo playing at?

The journalists have really been badly exposed by this whole debacle though.  The minute it looked like Biden had clinched it and they no longer needed access to Trump, they started behaving like actual journalists again and calling out the fool on his bullshit.

Watch Kuenssberg, Peston, Marr & Co drop Boris like a stone when his time comes.
Go back to what Michael Moore said about Trump -  "he's always lying and always telling the truth"

To that can be added: "they're always joking and always serious"

And regards the media, when I talked about right-wing political correctness, this is sort of what I was referring to -  the constant refusal to see Trump for what he actually is

One of the major failings over the last half decade, says the Yale history professor Timothy Snyder, has been a failure of imagination

What he means by that is there has a failure to anticipate danger, a failure to anticipate where things could lead, a constant dismissal of danger by self styled "adults in the room" who in reality are asleep at the wheel

Tell tale buzzword ad hominems such people use against others who can actually see the danger are "exaggerating", "doom monger" "hysterical", "scaremongering"

See the early stages of Covid for how these words were used to shut down debate - and they are still used

This is a sort of establishment or right-wing political correctness or censorship

There are great journalists out there in the US, but they are usually marginalised in favour of boring horse race analysis or soap opera style coverage - Maggie Haberman and Ken Vogel of the New York Times are particular offenders

Too often Trump has been treated as a comedy curiosity

Rachel Maddow is an exception to this in the mainstream media, and has been absolutely superb since the start of Trump - hence the vicious abuse she gets

The podcast Gaslit Nation, presented by Sarah Kendzior and Andrea Chalupa, has been the single most valuable resource I have come across about what is really going on in America - I cannot recommend it enough - they have been almost clairvoyant like in their predictions because they look at the Trump regime through historical frameworks, particularly through what happened in the post Soviet states, which they both have expertise in

https://www.patreon.com/gaslit



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 11, 2020, 12:47:59 AM
I have long thought the entire Trump operation is a front for laundering dirty Russian money and literally everything I've ever seen from Trump and his cronies strongly indicates that it is indeed the case

There really is no other conclusion one can come to if all this is examined with an objective eye

The Repiublican party, the NRA and pretty much the entire conservative movement in America are enmeshed in the scandal in one form or another

https://twitter.com/robertjdenault/status/1326321750993498114

Former top strategist for Romney campaign Stuart Stevens on MSNBC discussing Don Jr. trying to take over RNC: "The entire Trump Campaign is a criminal operation. They need to control it so people cannot see what is happening. It's a money laundering operation."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 11, 2020, 01:38:06 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 10, 2020, 11:51:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 11:38:19 PM
I wouldn't put it past him to lob a few missiles at Iran just for the craic.



The journalists have really been badly exposed by this whole debacle though.  The minute it looked like Biden had clinched it and they no longer needed access to Trump, they started behaving like actual journalists again and calling out the fool on his bullshit.




The problem, from an institutional perspective, is that if journalists don't toe the line, they don't get access.  This has been true at least since the first Gulf war. But, once the power shifts, they are free to flee the sinking sheep, and indeed they need to warm up to the new administration.  Hence the newly critical tone of Trump's administration in certain quarters.

So, I would suggest they have been behaving like journalists the whole time.  Just not the ones that one would admire (like the sadly departed Robert Fisk, for example).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 11, 2020, 01:39:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
You reckon Trump, Giuliani and the GOP are going to acknowledge this?

Another James O'Keefe/Project Veritas masterpiece.

f**king scum.

Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html)

Surely someone has to see the inside of a prison for this sort of shit?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 11, 2020, 01:40:42 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 11:38:19 PM
I wouldn't put it past him to lob a few missiles at Iran just for the craic.

My immediate reaction when it was clear Biden had won was that I hoped whoever was in charge of the launch codes was secretly changing them without telling Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tyssam5 on November 11, 2020, 06:59:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2020, 02:08:37 AM

You really don't know very much about American politics do you?

Keep sneering, keep living in that fantasy world of la la, keep projecting Nazism onto others

It's no wonder Trump lost

You need to start living in the real world

Nobody who does takes you seriously

They might not like what I have to say but deep down they know I'm right

I had a good laugh last night when I read this interview with Gabriel Byrne who's live here for decades

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/catholicism-thrives-on-fear-gabriel-byrne-speaks-about-sexual-abuse-he-suffered-at-the-hands-of-the-church-in-his-memoir-39724722.html

The Usual Suspects star also spoke about the failures of the Democratic Party in really understanding the anger of the working class in America.

"This is the second time they've come up against a gameshow host and they've learned nothing. Again they seriously underestimated the level of anger among mostly blue-collar workers

"At least it's the end of that guy but, personally, I can't stand Biden. An exceptionalist roaring about America as the moral leader of the world, all this crap. You can't appeal to people in Maine or Wisconsin or Michigan by saying this is a battle for the soul of America. It's just political garbage.

So a millionaire actor who lives in Brooklyn Heights know the wants of the people of Wisconsin?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 11, 2020, 09:33:56 AM
The video in this tweet is well worth watching

The Democratic party certainly has some major failings - but they are not the reason fascism is popular

George Monbiot explains that the oligarchs have discovered the formula for persuading the poor - well, a lot of them at any rate - to vote for the interests of the very rich

And this formula is lies and mass propaganda enabled by media ownership and controlling and manipulating the media narrative

https://twitter.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1323924677908201473
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 11, 2020, 02:57:39 PM
I know it doesn't really matter and electoral college etc. etc. but 5 million extra votes for one candidate over another is quite an astonishing number!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 11, 2020, 05:30:34 PM
Has anyone ventured into the dark sewer of Parler? The safe space that conservatives are crying off into?

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124871432_10160391601145550_1342638200678494186_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=0nLnrj_mA4IAX_qxXRt&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=7f1770e7f9f72dc0ee32b2a0ecd951e8&oe=5FD31AB5)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on November 11, 2020, 05:51:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 11, 2020, 05:30:34 PM
Has anyone ventured into the dark sewer of Parler? The safe space that conservatives are crying off into?

I think I'll pass. Isn't there some sort of law that can be used to prosecute someone for a post like that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 11, 2020, 06:07:55 PM
Quote from: blasmere on November 11, 2020, 05:51:43 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 11, 2020, 05:30:34 PM
Has anyone ventured into the dark sewer of Parler? The safe space that conservatives are crying off into?

I think I'll pass. Isn't there some sort of law that can be used to prosecute someone for a post like that?

I'm sure there is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 11, 2020, 06:08:18 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124598309_10224176153492419_7990240381544711845_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=453R9fBXJCoAX8StLLh&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=dda7822c56a039daa9287db93bd756d4&oe=5FD0C36A)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 12, 2020, 06:26:56 AM
Every now and then I make a point of watching Fox News (I watch Fox Sports in its various forms constantly). I happened into Tucker Carlson doing a segment  on Voter Fraud.. or in his words Democrat  Voter fraud. He went down a list of dead people who voted in the recent election and stated the obvious....  it is voter fraud. He is right, dead people voting is voter fraud.... but what he never mentioned once was who they voted for. By the way I counted 30 people that he showed on screen as examples; it could have been more but no more than 40. So now we need to throw out Tens of thousands of votes on the bases of 40, let's make it a 100 dead people voting for either candidate.. who knows. no matter which way you count it; it is not going to overcome 10's of thousands of votes. Does that make an impact on Tucker's indignation.. what do ya think... Smirk Smirk Smirk
Then he Introduces a dude who proclaimed himself a naval officer who served in Iraq saying that they had found dead people voting in Nevada. He went on to say that he (The Naval Officer) was affronted because the Nevada Attorney General is attacking him because he cannot show evidence of systemic fraud. He goes on to say... we have Fraud .. we don't know who the fraud is in favor of .. we don't know if it is significant but this election should be questioned because I was a senior law enforcement person and I am affronted.
wha do ya think
as an aside .. I cannot take anymore of Tucker but thus far into the show not a mention of CoVid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 12, 2020, 10:53:29 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 11, 2020, 05:30:34 PM
Has anyone ventured into the dark sewer of Parler? The safe space that conservatives are crying off into?

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124871432_10160391601145550_1342638200678494186_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=0nLnrj_mA4IAX_qxXRt&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=7f1770e7f9f72dc0ee32b2a0ecd951e8&oe=5FD31AB5)
Did Jon Voight write that?

He really needs to do a remake of the Odessa File with him as the Nazi this time

Quote from: omochain on November 12, 2020, 06:26:56 AM
Every now and then I make a point of watching Fox News (I watch Fox Sports in its various forms constantly). I happened into Tucker Carlson doing a segment  on Voter Fraud.. or in his words Democrat  Voter fraud. He went down a list of dead people who voted in the recent election and stated the obvious....  it is voter fraud. He is right, dead people voting is voter fraud.... but what he never mentioned once was who they voted for. By the way I counted 30 people that he showed on screen as examples; it could have been more but no more than 40. So now we need to throw out Tens of thousands of votes on the bases of 40, let's make it a 100 dead people voting for either candidate.. who knows. no matter which way you count it; it is not going to overcome 10's of thousands of votes. Does that make an impact on Tucker's indignation.. what do ya think... Smirk Smirk Smirk
Then he Introduces a dude who proclaimed himself a naval officer who served in Iraq saying that they had found dead people voting in Nevada. He went on to say that he (The Naval Officer) was affronted because the Nevada Attorney General is attacking him because he cannot show evidence of systemic fraud. He goes on to say... we have Fraud .. we don't know who the fraud is in favor of .. we don't know if it is significant but this election should be questioned because I was a senior law enforcement person and I am affronted.
wha do ya think
as an aside .. I cannot take anymore of Tucker but thus far into the show not a mention of CoVid.
Did you see the Grim Reaper on the Laura Ingraham Show the other night?

The fake fear mongering tabloid news programme "Rock Bottom" in The Simpsons has nothing on this shit

Satire has been made redundant by real life
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on November 12, 2020, 11:37:55 AM
Maybe Trump is trying to bring down the electoral collage system of picking the president?   Wouldn't have done him much good, but maybe the next one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 12, 2020, 11:37:55 AM
Maybe Trump is trying to bring down the electoral collage system of picking the president?   Wouldn't have done him much good, but maybe the next one.

He has zero chance without the electoral college.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 12, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 12, 2020, 11:37:55 AM
Maybe Trump is trying to bring down the electoral collage system of picking the president?   Wouldn't have done him much good, but maybe the next one.

He has zero chance without the electoral college.

All the same, what is taking so for for some of these states to declare?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2020, 01:03:51 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 12, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 12, 2020, 11:37:55 AM
Maybe Trump is trying to bring down the electoral collage system of picking the president?   Wouldn't have done him much good, but maybe the next one.

He has zero chance without the electoral college.

All the same, what is taking so for for some of these states to declare?

Its not the states declaring. The results are never certified until late November or so.

Its the media polling outfits who make the calls. And those outstanding races are too tight to call yet based on either the number/origin of votes still left to count or the margin where they have been counted triggering a recount.

Arizona will likely be finally called today or tomorrow for Biden by those who haven't yet done so (Fox News and the AP did so on election nght). There's only 25K votes left there, and although Trump has been steadily whittling away at his lead, Biden is still almost 12K votes ahead. Not sure if Trump can request a recount there or not.

Alaska was called for Trump last night, even though there is almost 25% of the vote to be counted. But there is no plausible chance of Biden getting enough of the remaining votes to win there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 12, 2020, 08:39:04 PM
Poor auld Trump has lost his love for Fox News.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 12, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Trump is becoming even more unhinged

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326926226888544256

@realDonaldTrump
"REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on November 12, 2020, 11:48:35 PM
I wonder how much of this Biden will try and roll back. Probably nothing. While Donald has been pretty neutered on the home front he's been pretty busy elsewhere. The man has fast tracked the annihilation of Palestine.


https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/100-times-president-trump-supported-israel/


1. President Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel
2. President Trump moved the American Embassy to Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem
3. President Trump closed the Jerusalem consulate and made it an Embassy branch
4. President Trump has never publicly criticized Israel
5. President Trump pulled America out of the Iran deal
6. President Trump raised military aid to Israel by $400 million
7. President Trump raised sanctions on Iran as soon as pulled out of the deal
8. President Trump recognized the sovereignty of Israel on the Golan Heights
9. President Trump designated IRGC (Iranian special forces) a foreign terrorist group
10. President Trump banned BDS head Omar Barghouti from America
11. President Trump banned the head of ICC and staff from coming to America
12. President Trump backed Israel's right to self-defense in Gaza
13. President Trump left the United Nations Human Rights (sic) Council
14. President Trump cut off all aid to the Palestinian Authority (created by the US to represent Palestinians in negotiations)
15. President Trump closed the PLO office in Washington, DC
16. President Trump was the first president to visit the Western Wall as President
17. President Trump sent the first official American visit to the Western Wall with an Israeli Prime Minister
18. President Trump allowed consulate and Embassy staff to meet with Jews of Judea and Samaria
19. President Trump allowed consulate and Embassy staff to visit Jews living in Judea and Samaria
20. President Trump announced that America will not support Israeli soldiers being tried at the ICC
21. President Trump called out the anti-Israel antisemitism of Ilhan Omar
22. President Trump flew to Israel on his first foreign trip
23. President Trump issued no waivers on increased sanctions against Iran
24. President Trump offered a $10 million reward for information on Hamas and Hezbollah financial networks
25. The Trump administration wrote op-eds blaming Hamas and the Palestinians for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
26. President Trump stopped the lame-duck last-minute Kerry and Obama $221 million payment to the Palestinian Authority on January 20, 2017
27. President Trump signed the Taylor Force Act
28. President Trump supported Israel in the May 2019 flare-up with Gaza.
29. President Trump refused a visa to Israel hater Hanan Ashrawi to America
30. President Trump sanctioned three leading members of Hezbollah in July 2019
31. The Trump administration blocked an attempt to get the UN Security Council to issue a formal condemnation of Israel's demolition of Palestinian homes on the edge of Jerusalem in July 2019
32. President Trump sanctioned Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif.
33. Ambassador Friedman refused to advocate for a two-state solution unfavorable to Israel
34. President Trump removed "Palestine" from the list of countries on The State Department list of nations. (Will Biden stand up for the right of Palestine to exist or continue to turn a blind eye!)
35. President Trump stopped a French $15 billion credit line to Iran
36. President Trump stopped a UN Security Council statement on tensions between Israel and
37. Hezbollah that did not single out violence by the Lebanese terror group
38. President Trump cut a $120 million from aid to Lebanon to ensure it didn't get to Hizballah
39. President Trump sanctioned 9 Iranians in November 2019
40. President Trump supported Israel after rocket fire in its skirmish with Islamic Jihad.
41. President Trump said nothing about Israel limiting retaliation.
42. President Trump and America was the only country besides Israel to vote against all 8 UN 4th committee resolutions in November 2019
43. President Trump declared that Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria ("settlements") aren't illegal under international law (they are illegal)
44. President Trump hasn't supported two-state solution as the only solution in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
45. Vice President Pence visited Israel during his first year in office
46. Secretary Pompeo wrote a letter to Congress clarifying that Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria have traditionally enjoyed bipartisan support
47. Secretary Pompeo says that claims that Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria have impeded peace are foolish
48. President Trump didn't comment when Defense Minister Bennet green-lighted a new Jewish neighborhood in Hebron
49. Secretary Pompeo announced that Iran is behind all the unrest in the Middle East
50. President Trump blamed Iran for Lebanon protests
51. President Trump's US deputy national security adviser Victoria Coates reportedly meets with envoys from UAE, Oman, Morocco, Bahrain to gauge willingness Israeli-Arab non-belligerence agreements
52. President Trump denounced Iran brutal crackdown on protesters
53. New US Ambassador to the United Nations Kelly Craft says she'll defend Israel. In first United Nations press conference, Kelly Craft also warns Iran that Washington has 'other tools' if Tehran continues its bad behavior
54. President Trump regales Israeli-American group with tales of his pro-Israel moves retells extensive account of embassy move, tells Israeli American Council that he's Israel's best friend in the White House
55. President Trump signed an executive order on anti-Semitism that protects Jewish students on college campuses. The order includes anti-Israel activity
56. Robert O'Brien tells Meir Ben-Shabbat that 'common interests between Israel and Arab states... have made new regional partnerships possible to counter Iran'
57. The Trump administration denounced Iranian human rights abuses and imposed sanctions on Iranian judges
58. After President Abbas hailed the ICC declaration that it will investigate Israel as an historic day for Palestinians, Secretary Pompeo said US 'firmly opposes' ICC announcement on alleged Israeli war crimes. He said the International Criminal Court's move 'unfairly targets' Jewish state, calls for direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians (preventing investigations into potential war crimes)
59. The Trump administration announced seven joint US-Israeli clean energy projects — including an energy-storing system for electric cars and a hydrogen-powered drone that takes off vertically — have received $6.4 million in funding from the US-Israel binational research and development program for energy (while doing nothing for renewables at home)
60. America struck Iranian-backed militia in Iraq; 19 reported killed. Israeli Air Force chief said 'US strike on Iran-backed Iraqi militia is a 'potential turning point'
61. President Trump ordered deadly strike on Iran's Soleimani (illegal, war crime, how come there weren't many calls for him to be impeached for this)
62. President Trump said new Iran sanctions have come into effect. President Trump said, "We've increased them. They were very severe, but now it's increased substantially."
63. President Trump mocked Iranian supreme leader, and wrote in support of the 'noble people of Iran,' after Khamenei attacks America and Europe in speech
64. President Trump releases his incredibly favorable-to-Israel peace plan to end Israeli-Palestinian conflict
65. Trump administration official Jared Kushner slams Palestinian leadership, urges giving up 'fairy tales' for peace. Kushner said Palestinians have been lied to, chiefs 'screwed up every opportunity in the past'; rejecting Trump plan shows they aren't ready for a state
66. Secretary Pompeo said If Palestinians unhappy with the Trump peace plan, they should present counter offer. He warned that Trump proposal could be last opportunity for Palestinian state
67. Jared Kushner says that if Palestinians are unable to meet the conditions of the new Middle East peace plan he crafted, Israel should not take "the risk to recognize them as a state."
68. Israeli and UAE officials met in secret in US to discuss countering Iran
69. National security adviser Robert O'Brien warns Palestinians that resurgence of anti-Jewish hatred around the world means more Jews will immigrate to Israel and West Bank
70. Jared Kushner says Abbas responsible for spike in violence since release of peace plan
71. Jared Kushner tells UN Palestinian leadership has long history of 'inciting intifadas when they don't get their way'
72. Due to American diplomacy, Abbas, lacking votes, pulls request for UN vote against Trump peace plan
73. The US military seized Iranian-made weapons in Arabian Sea. The USS Normandy warship seized 150 'Dehlavieh' anti-tank guided missiles, which are Iranian-manufactured copies of Russian Kornet ATGMs.
74. Trump advisor Jason Greenblatt warns that if traditional positions on conflict are readopted, 'Israel will likely continue to thrive and the Palestinians will continue to suffer'
75. Secretary Pompeo says UN settlement blacklist shows UN's 'unrelenting anti-Israel bias'
76. The US State Department expressed concern over a report that Iranians were threatening to raze an ancient shrine revered by local Jews as the burial place of the biblical Esther and Mordechai, in an act of revenge against Israel and Washington
77. The US gave Israeli prime minister the green light for Givat Hamatos construction
78. Israel advanced plans for nearly 1,800 new settlement homes America doesn't criticize
79. Ambassador Friedman said under the Trump administration, the Biblical heartland of Israel, Judea and Samaria, will never be judenrein
80. An Israeli delegation traveled to the United States for talks on coordinating a joint US-Israeli campaign against the International Criminal Court
81. Secretary Pompeo said the Israelis will ultimately make the decisions about annexation. That's an Israeli decision, but we'll work closely with them to share our views of this in a private setting
82. American diplomats circulate draft of Security Council resolution that would scrap expiration of 2015 nuclear deal's ban on weapons sales to Tehran
83. State Department says Washington ready to approve 'sovereignty and the application of Israeli law' in some areas
84. US officials emphasize West Bank annexation not contingent on Palestinian state
85. Ambassador David Friedman asserted that Israelis across the political spectrum supported the Trump plan and that "just as Americans would never relinquish the area on which the Statue of Liberty stands, even though it's a very small area, Israel would never agree to give up settlements like Beit El and Hebron
86. Secretary Pompeo praises Israel on visit, "You're a great partner, you share information, unlike some other countries that try to obfuscate and hide that information."
87. Secretary Pompeo warned the International Criminal Court against asserting jurisdiction over Israel, saying the United States will "exact consequences" for any "illegitimate" investigations (preventing investigations into potential war crimes again)
88. Secretary Pompeo called the ICC a "kangaroo court" and announced that sanctions in the form of asset freezes would be enacted against chief prosecutor, Fatou Bensouda and another senior ICC official
89. Serbia announced that it would move its embassy to Jerusalem, while Muslim majority Kosovo is to recognize Israel. The moves come as part of US-brokered discussions to normalize economic ties between Belgrade and Pristina
90. In a rare move, US sanctions 2 Lebanese politicians allied with Hezbollah who are former cabinet ministers that 'provided material support' to terror groups. America warned of new measures targeting organization's allies
91. US envoys helped broker a framework agreement for Lebanon and Israel to start discussing their disputed maritime border
92. Jared Kushner says Saudi Arabia, Bahrain to allow all Israeli flights to use airspace Saudi flights also able to use Israeli airspace; White House advisor says Arabs losing patience with Palestinian leadership, will do 'what's in their best interests'
93. The Trump administration warned Palestinians if they continue to reject Trump peace proposal 'the situation is just going to get worse and worse for them'; The US won't 'chase' Ramallah
94. President Trump brokered peace between Israel and the UAE
95. President Trump brokered peace between Israel and Bahrain
96. US sanctioned 2 Lebanon-based firms, Hezbollah-linked businessman, Arch Consulting and Meamar Construction targeted 'for being owned, controlled, or directed' by terrorist group
97. Defying the UN, the Trump administration unilaterally asserts sanctions on Iran are back in effect. Secretary Pompeo vows Trump administration will 'impose consequences' on any state violating 'snapback' sanctions to ensure Tehran 'does not reap the benefits of UN-prohibited activity'
98. The Trump administration unveils additional 'UN' sanctions against Iran, will enforce arms embargo
99. US, Israel, UAE announce establishment of $3 billion regional investment fund
100. The Trump administration brokered peace between Israel and Sudan and the two signed a normalization deal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2020, 12:17:25 AM
Quote from: thejuice on November 12, 2020, 11:48:35 PM

While Donald has been pretty neutered on the home front
You been asleep the last five years?

He's been the single most damaging person to America in the last 150 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2020, 01:20:26 AM
Quote from: dec on November 12, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Trump is becoming even more unhinged

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326926226888544256

@realDonaldTrump
"REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN."

Dear lord. ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2020, 01:37:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2020, 01:20:26 AM
Quote from: dec on November 12, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Trump is becoming even more unhinged

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326926226888544256

@realDonaldTrump
"REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN."


Pure projection

Dominion have been in Republicans' pockets for years

They couldn't even rig the election properly

Wouldn't be at all surprised if the real tally was Biden +10 million

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2020, 01:42:48 AM
And while all this is going on, not a f**king peep from him as COVID spirals out of control.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 13, 2020, 02:54:48 AM
What are you talking about? He told us already not to let it dominate our lives, what more do you want?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2020, 06:17:25 AM
Quote from: thejuice on November 12, 2020, 11:48:35 PM
I wonder how much of this Biden will try and roll back. Probably nothing. While Donald has been pretty neutered on the home front he's been pretty busy elsewhere. The man has fast tracked the annihilation of Palestine.


https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/100-times-president-trump-supported-israel/


1. President Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel
2. President Trump moved the American Embassy to Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem
3. President Trump closed the Jerusalem consulate and made it an Embassy branch
4. President Trump has never publicly criticized Israel
5. President Trump pulled America out of the Iran deal
6. President Trump raised military aid to Israel by $400 million
7. President Trump raised sanctions on Iran as soon as pulled out of the deal
8. President Trump recognized the sovereignty of Israel on the Golan Heights
9. President Trump designated IRGC (Iranian special forces) a foreign terrorist group
10. President Trump banned BDS head Omar Barghouti from America
11. President Trump banned the head of ICC and staff from coming to America
12. President Trump backed Israel's right to self-defense in Gaza
13. President Trump left the United Nations Human Rights (sic) Council
14. President Trump cut off all aid to the Palestinian Authority (created by the US to represent Palestinians in negotiations)
15. President Trump closed the PLO office in Washington, DC
16. President Trump was the first president to visit the Western Wall as President
17. President Trump sent the first official American visit to the Western Wall with an Israeli Prime Minister
18. President Trump allowed consulate and Embassy staff to meet with Jews of Judea and Samaria
19. President Trump allowed consulate and Embassy staff to visit Jews living in Judea and Samaria
20. President Trump announced that America will not support Israeli soldiers being tried at the ICC
21. President Trump called out the anti-Israel antisemitism of Ilhan Omar
22. President Trump flew to Israel on his first foreign trip
23. President Trump issued no waivers on increased sanctions against Iran
24. President Trump offered a $10 million reward for information on Hamas and Hezbollah financial networks
25. The Trump administration wrote op-eds blaming Hamas and the Palestinians for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
26. President Trump stopped the lame-duck last-minute Kerry and Obama $221 million payment to the Palestinian Authority on January 20, 2017
27. President Trump signed the Taylor Force Act
28. President Trump supported Israel in the May 2019 flare-up with Gaza.
29. President Trump refused a visa to Israel hater Hanan Ashrawi to America
30. President Trump sanctioned three leading members of Hezbollah in July 2019
31. The Trump administration blocked an attempt to get the UN Security Council to issue a formal condemnation of Israel's demolition of Palestinian homes on the edge of Jerusalem in July 2019
32. President Trump sanctioned Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif.
33. Ambassador Friedman refused to advocate for a two-state solution unfavorable to Israel
34. President Trump removed "Palestine" from the list of countries on The State Department list of nations. (Will Biden stand up for the right of Palestine to exist or continue to turn a blind eye!)
35. President Trump stopped a French $15 billion credit line to Iran
36. President Trump stopped a UN Security Council statement on tensions between Israel and
37. Hezbollah that did not single out violence by the Lebanese terror group
38. President Trump cut a $120 million from aid to Lebanon to ensure it didn't get to Hizballah
39. President Trump sanctioned 9 Iranians in November 2019
40. President Trump supported Israel after rocket fire in its skirmish with Islamic Jihad.
41. President Trump said nothing about Israel limiting retaliation.
42. President Trump and America was the only country besides Israel to vote against all 8 UN 4th committee resolutions in November 2019
43. President Trump declared that Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria ("settlements") aren't illegal under international law (they are illegal)
44. President Trump hasn't supported two-state solution as the only solution in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
45. Vice President Pence visited Israel during his first year in office
46. Secretary Pompeo wrote a letter to Congress clarifying that Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria have traditionally enjoyed bipartisan support
47. Secretary Pompeo says that claims that Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria have impeded peace are foolish
48. President Trump didn't comment when Defense Minister Bennet green-lighted a new Jewish neighborhood in Hebron
49. Secretary Pompeo announced that Iran is behind all the unrest in the Middle East
50. President Trump blamed Iran for Lebanon protests
51. President Trump's US deputy national security adviser Victoria Coates reportedly meets with envoys from UAE, Oman, Morocco, Bahrain to gauge willingness Israeli-Arab non-belligerence agreements
52. President Trump denounced Iran brutal crackdown on protesters
53. New US Ambassador to the United Nations Kelly Craft says she'll defend Israel. In first United Nations press conference, Kelly Craft also warns Iran that Washington has 'other tools' if Tehran continues its bad behavior
54. President Trump regales Israeli-American group with tales of his pro-Israel moves retells extensive account of embassy move, tells Israeli American Council that he's Israel's best friend in the White House
55. President Trump signed an executive order on anti-Semitism that protects Jewish students on college campuses. The order includes anti-Israel activity
56. Robert O'Brien tells Meir Ben-Shabbat that 'common interests between Israel and Arab states... have made new regional partnerships possible to counter Iran'
57. The Trump administration denounced Iranian human rights abuses and imposed sanctions on Iranian judges
58. After President Abbas hailed the ICC declaration that it will investigate Israel as an historic day for Palestinians, Secretary Pompeo said US 'firmly opposes' ICC announcement on alleged Israeli war crimes. He said the International Criminal Court's move 'unfairly targets' Jewish state, calls for direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians (preventing investigations into potential war crimes)
59. The Trump administration announced seven joint US-Israeli clean energy projects — including an energy-storing system for electric cars and a hydrogen-powered drone that takes off vertically — have received $6.4 million in funding from the US-Israel binational research and development program for energy (while doing nothing for renewables at home)
60. America struck Iranian-backed militia in Iraq; 19 reported killed. Israeli Air Force chief said 'US strike on Iran-backed Iraqi militia is a 'potential turning point'
61. President Trump ordered deadly strike on Iran's Soleimani (illegal, war crime, how come there weren't many calls for him to be impeached for this)
62. President Trump said new Iran sanctions have come into effect. President Trump said, "We've increased them. They were very severe, but now it's increased substantially."
63. President Trump mocked Iranian supreme leader, and wrote in support of the 'noble people of Iran,' after Khamenei attacks America and Europe in speech
64. President Trump releases his incredibly favorable-to-Israel peace plan to end Israeli-Palestinian conflict
65. Trump administration official Jared Kushner slams Palestinian leadership, urges giving up 'fairy tales' for peace. Kushner said Palestinians have been lied to, chiefs 'screwed up every opportunity in the past'; rejecting Trump plan shows they aren't ready for a state
66. Secretary Pompeo said If Palestinians unhappy with the Trump peace plan, they should present counter offer. He warned that Trump proposal could be last opportunity for Palestinian state
67. Jared Kushner says that if Palestinians are unable to meet the conditions of the new Middle East peace plan he crafted, Israel should not take "the risk to recognize them as a state."
68. Israeli and UAE officials met in secret in US to discuss countering Iran
69. National security adviser Robert O'Brien warns Palestinians that resurgence of anti-Jewish hatred around the world means more Jews will immigrate to Israel and West Bank
70. Jared Kushner says Abbas responsible for spike in violence since release of peace plan
71. Jared Kushner tells UN Palestinian leadership has long history of 'inciting intifadas when they don't get their way'
72. Due to American diplomacy, Abbas, lacking votes, pulls request for UN vote against Trump peace plan
73. The US military seized Iranian-made weapons in Arabian Sea. The USS Normandy warship seized 150 'Dehlavieh' anti-tank guided missiles, which are Iranian-manufactured copies of Russian Kornet ATGMs.
74. Trump advisor Jason Greenblatt warns that if traditional positions on conflict are readopted, 'Israel will likely continue to thrive and the Palestinians will continue to suffer'
75. Secretary Pompeo says UN settlement blacklist shows UN's 'unrelenting anti-Israel bias'
76. The US State Department expressed concern over a report that Iranians were threatening to raze an ancient shrine revered by local Jews as the burial place of the biblical Esther and Mordechai, in an act of revenge against Israel and Washington
77. The US gave Israeli prime minister the green light for Givat Hamatos construction
78. Israel advanced plans for nearly 1,800 new settlement homes America doesn't criticize
79. Ambassador Friedman said under the Trump administration, the Biblical heartland of Israel, Judea and Samaria, will never be judenrein
80. An Israeli delegation traveled to the United States for talks on coordinating a joint US-Israeli campaign against the International Criminal Court
81. Secretary Pompeo said the Israelis will ultimately make the decisions about annexation. That's an Israeli decision, but we'll work closely with them to share our views of this in a private setting
82. American diplomats circulate draft of Security Council resolution that would scrap expiration of 2015 nuclear deal's ban on weapons sales to Tehran
83. State Department says Washington ready to approve 'sovereignty and the application of Israeli law' in some areas
84. US officials emphasize West Bank annexation not contingent on Palestinian state
85. Ambassador David Friedman asserted that Israelis across the political spectrum supported the Trump plan and that "just as Americans would never relinquish the area on which the Statue of Liberty stands, even though it's a very small area, Israel would never agree to give up settlements like Beit El and Hebron
86. Secretary Pompeo praises Israel on visit, "You're a great partner, you share information, unlike some other countries that try to obfuscate and hide that information."
87. Secretary Pompeo warned the International Criminal Court against asserting jurisdiction over Israel, saying the United States will "exact consequences" for any "illegitimate" investigations (preventing investigations into potential war crimes again)
88. Secretary Pompeo called the ICC a "kangaroo court" and announced that sanctions in the form of asset freezes would be enacted against chief prosecutor, Fatou Bensouda and another senior ICC official
89. Serbia announced that it would move its embassy to Jerusalem, while Muslim majority Kosovo is to recognize Israel. The moves come as part of US-brokered discussions to normalize economic ties between Belgrade and Pristina
90. In a rare move, US sanctions 2 Lebanese politicians allied with Hezbollah who are former cabinet ministers that 'provided material support' to terror groups. America warned of new measures targeting organization's allies
91. US envoys helped broker a framework agreement for Lebanon and Israel to start discussing their disputed maritime border
92. Jared Kushner says Saudi Arabia, Bahrain to allow all Israeli flights to use airspace Saudi flights also able to use Israeli airspace; White House advisor says Arabs losing patience with Palestinian leadership, will do 'what's in their best interests'
93. The Trump administration warned Palestinians if they continue to reject Trump peace proposal 'the situation is just going to get worse and worse for them'; The US won't 'chase' Ramallah
94. President Trump brokered peace between Israel and the UAE
95. President Trump brokered peace between Israel and Bahrain
96. US sanctioned 2 Lebanon-based firms, Hezbollah-linked businessman, Arch Consulting and Meamar Construction targeted 'for being owned, controlled, or directed' by terrorist group
97. Defying the UN, the Trump administration unilaterally asserts sanctions on Iran are back in effect. Secretary Pompeo vows Trump administration will 'impose consequences' on any state violating 'snapback' sanctions to ensure Tehran 'does not reap the benefits of UN-prohibited activity'
98. The Trump administration unveils additional 'UN' sanctions against Iran, will enforce arms embargo
99. US, Israel, UAE announce establishment of $3 billion regional investment fund
100. The Trump administration brokered peace between Israel and Sudan and the two signed a normalization deal.


https://www.ft.com/content/9c4b656d-c1dd-4a42-a03b-87174dfe2792

Biden has pledged to rejoin the 2015 nuclear accord Iran signed with the US and five world powers, provided Tehran comes back into compliance with its uranium enrichment limits. Mr Trump unilaterally withdrew the US from the deal in 2018 but Mr Biden is surrounded by people who helped negotiate the detente and who are personally invested in reviving it. An outgoing Mr Trump may still try to poison the well by piling even more sanctions on Iran and its allies. Iran's regional aggression was kept out of the original deal and will be very hard to address simultaneously. While Mr Biden is a traditional pro-Israel Democrat, he will want to discourage the Israeli annexation of West Bank settlements that Mr Trump encouraged. To back such an annexation would legitimise land or power grabs elsewhere: by Russia (in Crimea and east Ukraine), Turkey (in northern Syria and north Cyprus), China (in Hong Kong) or India (in Kashmir).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 13, 2020, 10:48:41 AM
All the Networks have called Arizona for Biden . . . starting to think he might actually win this thing!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 13, 2020, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 13, 2020, 10:48:41 AM
All the Networks have called Arizona for Biden . . . starting to think he might actually win this thing!!

Are you representing the Chinese government
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/13/asia/biden-china-trump-election-intl-hnk/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 13, 2020, 05:26:25 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmrTl_tXcAAEuzo?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2020, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: dec on November 13, 2020, 05:26:25 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmrTl_tXcAAEuzo?format=jpg)

;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2020, 06:04:09 PM
130+ members of the Secret Service White House team infected or in quarantine due to COVID.

Will the great orange fuckwit have anything to tweet about THAT?

No idea how many are in the White House branch, but 130 sounds like it must be a fair chunk of their team.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2020, 06:56:54 PM
I hear it's a tenth of the team. Trump has literally decimated the secret service.

By the time he's done, Trump's total death toll is going to be up there with some of the most sinister figures in history.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 13, 2020, 07:03:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2020, 06:04:09 PM
130+ members of the Secret Service White House team infected or in quarantine due to COVID.

Will the great orange fuckwit have anything to tweet about THAT?

No idea how many are in the White House branch, but 130 sounds like it must be a fair chunk of their team.
are they not smart enough to wear a mask or does the mask not work ?
The vaccine seems to be the answer but you have guys like cuomo still casting doubt over it, not helpful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2020, 07:09:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 13, 2020, 07:03:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2020, 06:04:09 PM
130+ members of the Secret Service White House team infected or in quarantine due to COVID.

Will the great orange fuckwit have anything to tweet about THAT?

No idea how many are in the White House branch, but 130 sounds like it must be a fair chunk of their team.
are they not smart enough to wear a mask or does the mask not work ?
The vaccine seems to be the answer but you have guys like cuomo still casting doubt over it, not helpful.

Masks (assuming these guys were using them) are not a panacea. They're only part of the solution, along with hygiene and social distancing.

And when you're in the midst of a superspreader situation...

Cuomo is not casting doubt over the vaccine. He's casting doubt over the Trump administration's ability to roll it out so that it reaches everyone.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/audio-rush-transcript-governor-cuomo-guest-abc-s-good-morning-america (https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/audio-rush-transcript-governor-cuomo-guest-abc-s-good-morning-america)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 13, 2020, 07:40:56 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 11, 2020, 01:39:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
You reckon Trump, Giuliani and the GOP are going to acknowledge this?

Another James O'Keefe/Project Veritas masterpiece.

f**king scum.

Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html)

Surely someone has to see the inside of a prison for this sort of shit?
This is a wierd story which stands out tall in the swamp of wierdness  of the Conspiracy Republican Party.
10/10 for WTFness

10th Nov. Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say
11th Nov. Pennsylvania postal worker denies recanting ballot-tampering claims
https://www.postaltimes.com/postalnews/pennsylvania-postal-worker-denies-recanting-ballot-tampering-claims/

12th Nov.  USPS 'Whistleblower' Told Agents Project Veritas Penned His Ballot-Tampering Claim
https://www.postaltimes.com/postalnews/usps-whistleblower-told-agents-project-veritas-penned-his-ballot-tampering-claim/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2020, 07:50:26 PM
You'd wonder how the f**k Project Veritas keep their operation going with all of their hoaxes and damp squibs?

But then you think of the current US right wing not exactly being renowned for critical thinking and analysis. Tell them what they want to hear, and watch the publicity and dollars flow in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2020, 07:52:59 PM
GA just called for Biden, NC for Trump.

Assuming everything holds, reverse score for Trump from last time, 306 to 232.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 13, 2020, 08:09:08 PM
I do love a good conspiracy story. Although personally I believe Oswald shot JFK, neverthelesss  in the world rankings of conspiracy theories I'd rate JFK's assassination as gold standard. It has all the conspiracy ticking bombs, the grassy knoll, the impossible shot angle from depository,  the magic bullet, the strange exit  of Oswald from the scene, the  lack of escape plan, the strange arrest,  Oswald "I'm a patsy", Jack Ruby  (wtf who what where why) and the Warren Commision report. The book by Garrison and the Oliver Stone film,  a host of other well researched books almost (all falling short) making the case for the conspiracy.

Just how shabby are the efforts of the Conspiracy Republican Party to frame the conspiracy around the 2020 election? This has to be one of the the shabbiest ever attempts to frame a conspiracy.
I'm dissapointed Rudy.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2020, 08:25:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 13, 2020, 08:09:08 PM
I do love a good conspiracy story. Although personally I believe Oswald shot JFK, neverthelesss  in the world rankings of conspiracy theories I'd rate JFK's assassination as gold standard. It has all the conspiracy ticking bombs, the grassy knoll, the impossible shot angle from depository,  the magic bullet, the strange exit  of Oswald from the scene, the  lack of escape plan, the strange arrest,  Oswald "I'm a patsy", Jack Ruby  (wtf who what where why) and the Warren Commision report. The book by Garrison and the Oliver Stone film,  a host of other well researched books almost (all falling short) making the case for the conspiracy.

Just how shabby are the efforts of the Conspiracy Republican Party to frame the conspiracy around the 2020 election? This has to be one of the the shabbiest ever attempts to frame a conspiracy.
I'm dissapointed Rudy.

They reckon if Reagan had died in his assassination attempt there'd have been all sorts of conspiracy theories about that too. If JFK had survived then there might not have been so much interest in the case and not as much conspiracy theorising about it.

Raise your hand if you can even remember the name of the fella that shot Reagan. I can't remember, to say nothing of knowing anything about him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2020, 08:26:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2020, 07:50:26 PM
You'd wonder how the f**k Project Veritas keep their operation going with all of their hoaxes and damp squibs?

But then you think of the current US right wing not exactly being renowned for critical thinking and analysis. Tell them what they want to hear, and watch the publicity and dollars flow in.

When lying is so lucrative, expect to see a lot more of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: pbat on November 13, 2020, 08:51:07 PM
The Don doing a press conference at 21.00 Irish time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 13, 2020, 09:11:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 13, 2020, 07:50:26 PM
You'd wonder how the f**k Project Veritas keep their operation going with all of their hoaxes and damp squibs?

But then you think of the current US right wing not exactly being renowned for critical thinking and analysis. Tell them what they want to hear, and watch the publicity and dollars flow in.

Plenty of money funding them from the Koch's and the Mercer's
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 13, 2020, 09:13:40 PM
Quote from: pbat on November 13, 2020, 08:51:07 PM
The Don doing a press conference at 21.00 Irish time.
(https://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tumblr_ljh0puClWT1qfkt17.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 13, 2020, 09:32:18 PM
What a babbling idiot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2020, 09:45:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2020, 08:25:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 13, 2020, 08:09:08 PM
I do love a good conspiracy story. Although personally I believe Oswald shot JFK, neverthelesss  in the world rankings of conspiracy theories I'd rate JFK's assassination as gold standard. It has all the conspiracy ticking bombs, the grassy knoll, the impossible shot angle from depository,  the magic bullet, the strange exit  of Oswald from the scene, the  lack of escape plan, the strange arrest,  Oswald "I'm a patsy", Jack Ruby  (wtf who what where why) and the Warren Commision report. The book by Garrison and the Oliver Stone film,  a host of other well researched books almost (all falling short) making the case for the conspiracy.

Just how shabby are the efforts of the Conspiracy Republican Party to frame the conspiracy around the 2020 election? This has to be one of the the shabbiest ever attempts to frame a conspiracy.
I'm dissapointed Rudy.

They reckon if Reagan had died in his assassination attempt there'd have been all sorts of conspiracy theories about that too. If JFK had survived then there might not have been so much interest in the case and not as much conspiracy theorising about it.

Raise your hand if you can even remember the name of the fella that shot Reagan. I can't remember, to say nothing of knowing anything about him.
I think it's more that there would have been conspiracies had Hinckley been shot

Nobody would ever have believed the truth, it would have seemed far too ludicrous
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2020, 10:16:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2020, 08:25:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 13, 2020, 08:09:08 PM
I do love a good conspiracy story. Although personally I believe Oswald shot JFK, neverthelesss  in the world rankings of conspiracy theories I'd rate JFK's assassination as gold standard. It has all the conspiracy ticking bombs, the grassy knoll, the impossible shot angle from depository,  the magic bullet, the strange exit  of Oswald from the scene, the  lack of escape plan, the strange arrest,  Oswald "I'm a patsy", Jack Ruby  (wtf who what where why) and the Warren Commision report. The book by Garrison and the Oliver Stone film,  a host of other well researched books almost (all falling short) making the case for the conspiracy.

Just how shabby are the efforts of the Conspiracy Republican Party to frame the conspiracy around the 2020 election? This has to be one of the the shabbiest ever attempts to frame a conspiracy.
I'm dissapointed Rudy.

They reckon if Reagan had died in his assassination attempt there'd have been all sorts of conspiracy theories about that too. If JFK had survived then there might not have been so much interest in the case and not as much conspiracy theorising about it.

Raise your hand if you can even remember the name of the fella that shot Reagan. I can't remember, to say nothing of knowing anything about him.

Wasn't it Hinkley or something? Edit: sid confirms

Wasn't he the one who did it to impress Jodie Foster?

Or am I getting my assassins mixed up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 13, 2020, 10:20:55 PM
sensing a pattern here

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmvG9_CXUAAx7XH?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmvG-KoXMAEqY8K?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmvG-U-XMAEIDbE?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmvG-g8XcAMo-Hz?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2020, 10:27:42 PM
He's relentlessly racking up those points after the early goal

Like a Limerick hurling first half performance
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
Now the election is over and joe won and there has been no looting or violence it should show once and for all who the rioters are voting for . What an alliance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 02:07:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
Now the election is over and joe won and there has been no looting or violence it should show once and for all who the rioters are voting for . What an alliance.
This could have come straight from the mouth of Ian Paisley

You don't get many DUP people on a GAA forum

Who am I to say you shouldn't post here though
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 02:38:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 02:07:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
Now the election is over and joe won and there has been no looting or violence it should show once and for all who the rioters are voting for . What an alliance.
This could have come straight from the mouth of Ian Paisley

You don't get many DUP people on a GAA forum

Who am I to say you shouldn't post here though
truth is truth no matter who's mouth it comes from .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 14, 2020, 03:06:18 AM
We'll see how the anti democracy rally goes tomorrow!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 02:38:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 02:07:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
Now the election is over and joe won and there has been no looting or violence it should show once and for all who the rioters are voting for . What an alliance.
This could have come straight from the mouth of Ian Paisley

You don't get many DUP people on a GAA forum

Who am I to say you shouldn't post here though
truth is truth no matter who's mouth it comes from .
Stupidity is stupidity no matter who's mouth it comes from

Failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance is failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance no matter who's mouth it comes from

But nobody is surprised when these things come from your mouth

Because your whole life's identity centres around the embrace of stupidity and the rejection of the idea that any sort of complexity or nuance could ever exist

According to your logic, the upholders of apartheid in South Africa were the good guys while those who sought to obliterate it were the bad guys
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 09:32:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 02:38:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 02:07:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
Now the election is over and joe won and there has been no looting or violence it should show once and for all who the rioters are voting for . What an alliance.
This could have come straight from the mouth of Ian Paisley

You don't get many DUP people on a GAA forum

Who am I to say you shouldn't post here though
truth is truth no matter who's mouth it comes from .
Stupidity is stupidity no matter who's mouth it comes from

Failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance is failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance no matter who's mouth it comes from

But nobody is surprised when these things come from your mouth

Because your whole life's identity centres around the embrace of stupidity and the rejection of the idea that any sort of complexity or nuance could ever exist

According to your logic, the upholders of apartheid in South Africa were the good guys while those who sought to obliterate it were the bad guys
stupidity is typing pages and pages of scutter every day of the week about politics  in a country you don't live in and maybe have never even been to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 09:37:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 09:32:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 02:38:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 02:07:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
Now the election is over and joe won and there has been no looting or violence it should show once and for all who the rioters are voting for . What an alliance.
This could have come straight from the mouth of Ian Paisley

You don't get many DUP people on a GAA forum

Who am I to say you shouldn't post here though
truth is truth no matter who's mouth it comes from .
Stupidity is stupidity no matter who's mouth it comes from

Failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance is failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance no matter who's mouth it comes from

But nobody is surprised when these things come from your mouth

Because your whole life's identity centres around the embrace of stupidity and the rejection of the idea that any sort of complexity or nuance could ever exist

According to your logic, the upholders of apartheid in South Africa were the good guys while those who sought to obliterate it were the bad guys
stupidity is typing pages and pages of scutter every day of the week about politics  in a country you don't live in and maybe have never even been to.
As always, you're totally unable to come with any sort of an argument

I'm just wondering if you've ever wondered why you're never able to come any sort of an argument and why your posts always contain zero substance - except for shit, obviously

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 09:40:59 PM
The "intellectual" culture of right-wing America is as strong as ever, I see, as displayed at today's far right losers' rally

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1327674434027728901

"LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP....We are not letting that crackhead and that pedophile into our house"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 14, 2020, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 09:40:59 PM
The "intellectual" culture of right-wing America is as strong as ever, I see, as displayed at today's far right losers' rally

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1327674434027728901

"LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP....We are not letting that crackhead and that pedophile into our house"
The million MAGA March or the Q cucks clan as I saw them described on Twitter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 14, 2020, 10:19:44 PM
Meanwhile -- things aint working out down at the wall,

https://twitter.com/i/status/1327603594145767425 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1327603594145767425)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2020, 12:10:17 AM
Yeah it's not going so well!!

https://twitter.com/anthonyscountry/status/1327658836048695296?s=21
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 15, 2020, 12:24:08 AM
How many hundreds attended the million MAGA march?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 15, 2020, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 09:32:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 02:38:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 02:07:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
Now the election is over and joe won and there has been no looting or violence it should show once and for all who the rioters are voting for . What an alliance.
This could have come straight from the mouth of Ian Paisley

You don't get many DUP people on a GAA forum

Who am I to say you shouldn't post here though
truth is truth no matter who's mouth it comes from .
Stupidity is stupidity no matter who's mouth it comes from

Failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance is failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance no matter who's mouth it comes from

But nobody is surprised when these things come from your mouth

Because your whole life's identity centres around the embrace of stupidity and the rejection of the idea that any sort of complexity or nuance could ever exist

According to your logic, the upholders of apartheid in South Africa were the good guys while those who sought to obliterate it were the bad guys
stupidity is typing pages and pages of scutter every day of the week about politics  in a country you don't live in and maybe have never even been to.
GMac what would you like Biden to do, that could guarantee your vote in 4 years time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 15, 2020, 03:52:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 15, 2020, 12:24:08 AM
How many hundreds attended the million MAGA march?

The hundred hillbilly march?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2020, 01:16:43 PM
The great orange megalomaniac is STILL furiously trying to hang in there, despite loss after loss in the courts and being deserted daily by the lawyers hired to argue his "case". One or two GOPers starting to recognize Biden, but f**k me they're a cynical, craven, gutless rabble.

And thank f**k the 2600 votes they found on the memory card in some Georgia Republican county favoured Trump. Can you IMAGINE if it had been the other way, what Trump, Hannity, Tucker and the rest would be saying??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Lindsey Graham must be one of the most cowardly and pathetic figures in American history

It literally has got to the stage where the Republicans are demanding that votes are tossed out simply because they don't like who they are cast for, enough votes to change the result, in which case the election would not be an election at all, but a dictatorship

This is exactly as Putin wanted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 01:26:30 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 15, 2020, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 09:32:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 02:38:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 02:07:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
Now the election is over and joe won and there has been no looting or violence it should show once and for all who the rioters are voting for . What an alliance.
This could have come straight from the mouth of Ian Paisley

You don't get many DUP people on a GAA forum

Who am I to say you shouldn't post here though
truth is truth no matter who's mouth it comes from .
Stupidity is stupidity no matter who's mouth it comes from

Failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance is failure to deal with any sort of complexity or nuance no matter who's mouth it comes from

But nobody is surprised when these things come from your mouth

Because your whole life's identity centres around the embrace of stupidity and the rejection of the idea that any sort of complexity or nuance could ever exist

According to your logic, the upholders of apartheid in South Africa were the good guys while those who sought to obliterate it were the bad guys
stupidity is typing pages and pages of scutter every day of the week about politics  in a country you don't live in and maybe have never even been to.
GMac what would you like Biden to do, that could guarantee your vote in 4 years time?
The cultist didn't answer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2020, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Lindsey Graham must be one of the most cowardly and pathetic figures in American history

It literally has got to the stage where the Republicans are demanding that votes are tossed out simply because they don't like who they are cast for, enough votes to change the result, in which case the election would not be an election at all, but a dictatorship

This is exactly as Putin wanted

Yep, Graham, formerly the Robin to John McCain's Batman, so critical of Trump in the 2016 primaries that Trump actually tweeted Graham's private mobile phone number so his moronic supporters could ring Graham with abuse and death threats, then turns around and gives Trump a four year blowjob, just so he can retain his political influence in the personality cult.

Ted Cruz is not far behind him. "Lyin' Ted" was so critical of Trump that Trump publicly criticized Mrs. Cruz's looks and claimed that his father was part of the JFK assassination team. Now he too can't bend far enough backwards in service of his master.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on November 17, 2020, 02:07:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2020, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Lindsey Graham must be one of the most cowardly and pathetic figures in American history

It literally has got to the stage where the Republicans are demanding that votes are tossed out simply because they don't like who they are cast for, enough votes to change the result, in which case the election would not be an election at all, but a dictatorship

This is exactly as Putin wanted

Yep, Graham, formerly the Robin to John McCain's Batman, so critical of Trump in the 2016 primaries that Trump actually tweeted Graham's private mobile phone number so his moronic supporters could ring Graham with abuse and death threats, then turns around and gives Trump a four year blowjob, just so he can retain his political influence in the personality cult.

Ted Cruz is not far behind him. "Lyin' Ted" was so critical of Trump that Trump publicly criticized Mrs. Cruz's looks and claimed that his father was part of the JFK assassination team. Now he too can't bend far enough backwards in service of his master.
While it's certainly not ruled out, I don't think Trump will put himself through another presidential election campaign. However, whoever Trump backs will be a very strong contender for the Republican nomination and I think that's helping him keep a lot of these guys in his pocket. It'll be funny to see Cruz in particular, if Trump eventually ends up backing one of the young Trumps instead!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2020, 02:21:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 17, 2020, 02:07:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2020, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Lindsey Graham must be one of the most cowardly and pathetic figures in American history

It literally has got to the stage where the Republicans are demanding that votes are tossed out simply because they don't like who they are cast for, enough votes to change the result, in which case the election would not be an election at all, but a dictatorship

This is exactly as Putin wanted

Yep, Graham, formerly the Robin to John McCain's Batman, so critical of Trump in the 2016 primaries that Trump actually tweeted Graham's private mobile phone number so his moronic supporters could ring Graham with abuse and death threats, then turns around and gives Trump a four year blowjob, just so he can retain his political influence in the personality cult.

Ted Cruz is not far behind him. "Lyin' Ted" was so critical of Trump that Trump publicly criticized Mrs. Cruz's looks and claimed that his father was part of the JFK assassination team. Now he too can't bend far enough backwards in service of his master.
While it's certainly not ruled out, I don't think Trump will put himself through another presidential election campaign. However, whoever Trump backs will be a very strong contender for the Republican nomination and I think that's helping him keep a lot of these guys in his pocket. It'll be funny to see Cruz in particular, if Trump eventually ends up backing one of the young Trumps instead!

Apparently Donnie Jr is hoping to capitalize one day in politics on the family "brand". He has the gift for his father's poisonous, fact-free rhetoric. Whether he has the charisma to capture the GOP base remains to be seen.

The favoured child, Ivanka, is a vaccous plank, seemingly caught between her auld lad's obnoxious, outspoken, bigotry and her upper-class socialite tendencies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 04:18:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2020, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Lindsey Graham must be one of the most cowardly and pathetic figures in American history

It literally has got to the stage where the Republicans are demanding that votes are tossed out simply because they don't like who they are cast for, enough votes to change the result, in which case the election would not be an election at all, but a dictatorship

This is exactly as Putin wanted

Yep, Graham, formerly the Robin to John McCain's Batman, so critical of Trump in the 2016 primaries that Trump actually tweeted Graham's private mobile phone number so his moronic supporters could ring Graham with abuse and death threats, then turns around and gives Trump a four year blowjob, just so he can retain his political influence in the personality cult.

Ted Cruz is not far behind him. "Lyin' Ted" was so critical of Trump that Trump publicly criticized Mrs. Cruz's looks and claimed that his father was part of the JFK assassination team. Now he too can't bend far enough backwards in service of his master.

Graham must have some serious skeletons in his closet, hard to explain his sycophancy otherwise

Everybody has known he's gay for years but you'd suspect that the threat of something a lot more scandalous than that being released is being held over him

I think Cruz is just a pathetic greasy pole climber with zero principle who still harbours ambitions of going for president, who realises that the Republican party is a fascist party, and if he has to be a fascist to advance career wise, that's what he'll be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2020, 02:21:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 17, 2020, 02:07:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2020, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Lindsey Graham must be one of the most cowardly and pathetic figures in American history

It literally has got to the stage where the Republicans are demanding that votes are tossed out simply because they don't like who they are cast for, enough votes to change the result, in which case the election would not be an election at all, but a dictatorship

This is exactly as Putin wanted

Yep, Graham, formerly the Robin to John McCain's Batman, so critical of Trump in the 2016 primaries that Trump actually tweeted Graham's private mobile phone number so his moronic supporters could ring Graham with abuse and death threats, then turns around and gives Trump a four year blowjob, just so he can retain his political influence in the personality cult.

Ted Cruz is not far behind him. "Lyin' Ted" was so critical of Trump that Trump publicly criticized Mrs. Cruz's looks and claimed that his father was part of the JFK assassination team. Now he too can't bend far enough backwards in service of his master.
While it's certainly not ruled out, I don't think Trump will put himself through another presidential election campaign. However, whoever Trump backs will be a very strong contender for the Republican nomination and I think that's helping him keep a lot of these guys in his pocket. It'll be funny to see Cruz in particular, if Trump eventually ends up backing one of the young Trumps instead!

Apparently Donnie Jr is hoping to capitalize one day in politics on the family "brand". He has the gift for his father's poisonous, fact-free rhetoric. Whether he has the charisma to capture the GOP base remains to be seen.

The favoured child, Ivanka, is a vaccous plank, seemingly caught between her auld lad's obnoxious, outspoken, bigotry and her upper-class socialite tendencies.
I suspect he has what it takes to win a Republican primary, ie. the name "Donald Trump"

But whether he has enough to win a presidential election is another thing entirely, I suspect he'd crash and burn, but one can't be certain because one can't be certain just where this all out right wing disinformation war will have taken America by 2024, it could make 2020 look like a paragon of truth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2020, 05:15:16 PM
Don Sr. is obviously extremely charismatic (if he doesn't repel you, that is).  Look at the faces at the front of his rallies--they think he's a rock star.  He's managed to get people out to vote, many of whom would not have bothered. 

The Reps clearly have people who would like to harness this in their favor (including Don Jr.), but nobody has what Don Sr. has, as far as I can see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 17, 2020, 05:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2020, 02:21:42 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 17, 2020, 02:07:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2020, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Lindsey Graham must be one of the most cowardly and pathetic figures in American history

It literally has got to the stage where the Republicans are demanding that votes are tossed out simply because they don't like who they are cast for, enough votes to change the result, in which case the election would not be an election at all, but a dictatorship

This is exactly as Putin wanted

Yep, Graham, formerly the Robin to John McCain's Batman, so critical of Trump in the 2016 primaries that Trump actually tweeted Graham's private mobile phone number so his moronic supporters could ring Graham with abuse and death threats, then turns around and gives Trump a four year blowjob, just so he can retain his political influence in the personality cult.

Ted Cruz is not far behind him. "Lyin' Ted" was so critical of Trump that Trump publicly criticized Mrs. Cruz's looks and claimed that his father was part of the JFK assassination team. Now he too can't bend far enough backwards in service of his master.
While it's certainly not ruled out, I don't think Trump will put himself through another presidential election campaign. However, whoever Trump backs will be a very strong contender for the Republican nomination and I think that's helping him keep a lot of these guys in his pocket. It'll be funny to see Cruz in particular, if Trump eventually ends up backing one of the young Trumps instead!

Apparently Donnie Jr is hoping to capitalize one day in politics on the family "brand". He has the gift for his father's poisonous, fact-free rhetoric. Whether he has the charisma to capture the GOP base remains to be seen.

The favoured child, Ivanka, is a vaccous plank, seemingly caught between her auld lad's obnoxious, outspoken, bigotry and her upper-class socialite tendencies.
I suspect he has what it takes to win a Republican primary, ie. the name "Donald Trump"

But whether he has enough to win a presidential election is another thing entirely, I suspect he'd crash and burn, but one can't be certain because one can't be certain just where this all out right wing disinformation war will have taken America by 2024, it could make 2020 look like a paragon of truth

Seriously. The conservatives are retreating deeper into their reality-proof echo chambers like Parler. God knows what delusions are passing for beliefs in there. By the time we get to 2024 they'll be spouting so much weird shit that we won't have a clue what they're talking about half the time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 17, 2020, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 11:38:19 PM
I wouldn't put it past him to lob a few missiles at Iran just for the craic.

Called it.

New York Times: Trump asked advisers about possible strike on Iranian nuclear site
(https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/16/politics/trump-possible-offensive-iran-nuclear-site/index.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 17, 2020, 06:28:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 17, 2020, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2020, 11:38:19 PM
I wouldn't put it past him to lob a few missiles at Iran just for the craic.

Called it.

New York Times: Trump asked advisers about possible strike on Iranian nuclear site
(https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/16/politics/trump-possible-offensive-iran-nuclear-site/index.html)
"There would be some meltdowns from the libtards here if he nuked Iran, it'd be hilarious  ;D ;D ;D"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 18, 2020, 12:38:13 AM
Now he's sacked Chris Krebs, the admin cybersecurity  official who said last week that the election was secure and there was no evidence of widespread fraud.

Trump is truly a loathsome, pathetic, scummy little worm.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2020, 01:53:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 18, 2020, 12:38:13 AM
Now he's sacked Chris Krebs, the admin cybersecurity  official who said last week that the election was secure and there was no evidence of widespread fraud.

I'm sure being sacked by Trump for standing up to him will not be an obstacle in the IT industry.

Quote
Trump is truly a loathsome, pathetic, scummy little worm.

tell us what you really think.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 18, 2020, 04:45:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 18, 2020, 12:38:13 AM
Now he's sacked Chris Krebs, the admin cybersecurity  official who said last week that the election was secure and there was no evidence of widespread fraud.

Trump is truly a loathsome, pathetic, scummy little worm.

Now .. Now.. A worm is a useful thing😜
Donegal for Sam!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 18, 2020, 07:29:46 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2020, 05:15:16 PM
Don Sr. is obviously extremely charismatic (if he doesn't repel you, that is).  Look at the faces at the front of his rallies--they think he's a rock star.  He's managed to get people out to vote, many of whom would not have bothered. 

The Reps clearly have people who would like to harness this in their favor (including Don Jr.), but nobody has what Don Sr. has, as far as I can see.
If he were a rock star, Gary Glitter comes to mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 18, 2020, 09:07:35 PM
The New York City schools, which had reopened in late September for blended learning (some days in school, some at home) are closing tomorrow again. The city hit 3% positivity rate for covid tests (averaged over 7 days). All students will now be learning remotely.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-schools-shutdown.html

The schools themselves have not been a major source of transmission, kids and teachers are tested regularly and the rate is about 0.2%. Closing the schools will impact those parents who can't work from home and I suspect that for many poorer families are also not doing as well with remote learning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2020, 09:54:50 PM
Quote from: dec on November 18, 2020, 09:07:35 PM
The New York City schools, which had reopened in late September for blended learning (some days in school, some at home) are closing tomorrow again. The city hit 3% positivity rate for covid tests (averaged over 7 days). All students will now be learning remotely.


Has the positivity ratio in the 6 counties gone below 10% in the last month?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 18, 2020, 11:26:31 PM
Snake newsom caught nicely having a big night out at one of the most expensive restaurants around .
Twice the allotted amount of guests including top ca health officials and top cma lobbyists not a mask in sight ,  this guy is such a douche he should be dumped out on his ear . Add to Nancy no mask and Diane Feinstein caught not wearing a mask before boarding a flight after adopting a bill in the senate that wearing a mask on a plane was mandatory you couldn't make up the hypocrisy . also no acceptance that the Biden celebration is causing a huge spike in ca now .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 01:15:19 AM
That IS very poor from Newsome. No excuse. You can't lead this kind of fight and not practice what you preach.

What do you think, Gmac, about Trump and his lawyers instigating and celebrating the attempted theft of the vote of the people of Detroit last night?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 01:45:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 01:15:19 AM
That IS very poor from Newsome. No excuse. You can't lead this kind of fight and not practice what you preach.

What do you think, Gmac, about Trump and his lawyers instigating and celebrating the attempted theft of the vote of the people of Detroit last night?
i don't know anything about it but trump has lost and should take his defeat like a man
On another note why are the people of Detroit voting dems in all the time  ? the city is a complete mess from its heyday in the 40s and 50s
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:03:15 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 01:45:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 01:15:19 AM
That IS very poor from Newsome. No excuse. You can't lead this kind of fight and not practice what you preach.

What do you think, Gmac, about Trump and his lawyers instigating and celebrating the attempted theft of the vote of the people of Detroit last night?
i don't know anything about it but trump has lost and should take his defeat like a man
On another note why are the people of Detroit voting dems in all the time  ? the city is a complete mess from its heyday in the 40s and 50s

I guess they like what the GOP is offering even less than what the Dems are.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 02:41:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:03:15 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 01:45:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 01:15:19 AM
That IS very poor from Newsome. No excuse. You can't lead this kind of fight and not practice what you preach.

What do you think, Gmac, about Trump and his lawyers instigating and celebrating the attempted theft of the vote of the people of Detroit last night?
i don't know anything about it but trump has lost and should take his defeat like a man
On another note why are the people of Detroit voting dems in all the time  ? the city is a complete mess from its heyday in the 40s and 50s

I guess they like what the GOP is offering even less than what the Dems are.
there are probably no gop candidates even running.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 19, 2020, 02:43:50 AM
Looks like the racist coup attempt in Michigan hasn't made it into the conservative media bubble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on November 19, 2020, 05:44:30 AM
While you are all being reasonable with GMAC his crowd are doing this to ye..
https://lawandcrime.com/judiciary/kathryn-mizelle-confirmed-as-federal-judge/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 19, 2020, 02:43:50 AM
Looks like the racist coup attempt in Michigan hasn't made it into the conservative media bubble.

Apparently after agreeing to sign off on the results due to the backlash, the two GOPers then came out yesterday and said they take back their agreement!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/19/wayne-county-rescind-certifying-election/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/19/wayne-county-rescind-certifying-election/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on November 19, 2020, 02:25:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election...?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?
.

They said all that about GW Bush in 2000. And he lasted 8 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 19, 2020, 02:44:54 PM
Quote from: five points on November 19, 2020, 02:25:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election...?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?
.

They said all that about GW Bush in 2000. And he lasted 8 years.

Who said that about GW Bush?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:50:39 PM
Quote from: five points on November 19, 2020, 02:25:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election...?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?
.

They said all that about GW Bush in 2000. And he lasted 8 years.

I've no interest in an endless nit-picking debate, but you think that's the case, go ahead and make it.

IMO there is no comparison whatsoever between the two.

Bush and Gore were separated by 500 votes in one large state, a state initially called for Gore, then called for Bush, and for which Gore then had to retract his concession once the deadlocked vote became known. Gore also won the national popular vote. Of course it was contentious, fought out by the campaigns for weeks, right up to, and including the Supreme Court 5-4 decision which awarded Bush the victory. The Dems were bitter and sore (just like the GOP would understandably have been had the shoe been on the other foot), but the country moved on, just like it did after other elections.

Trump, by comparison, has had his arse handed to him but its trying every dodgy and illegitimate thing he can think of to steal the election, even as he loses case after case and any half-capable lawyers that were involved desert him. If he were to succeed, there would be a massive response, and justifiably so. This would not be a razor-thin contest decided by a razor-thin Supreme Court decision along partisan lines. This would be a blatant example of election theft akin to what happens in strongmen dictatorships.

Thankfully, he is just completely disconnected from reality, being fed a load of tripe by a bunch of power-hungry sycophants, and the country WILL be able to move on once he runs out of imaginary road.

My question is WHY he wants this or WHAT he thinks its going to be like winning in this way?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:59:46 PM
Quote from: omochain on November 18, 2020, 04:45:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 18, 2020, 12:38:13 AM
Now he's sacked Chris Krebs, the admin cybersecurity  official who said last week that the election was secure and there was no evidence of widespread fraud.

Trump is truly a loathsome, pathetic, scummy little worm.

Now .. Now.. A worm is a useful thing😜
Donegal for Sam!!!

We can all dream!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.
what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.
what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 19, 2020, 04:04:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.
what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.

He also needs to start co-ordinating with the incoming Administration and maybe a meeting with his Coronavirus taskforce this last 5 months might have helped things a bit I mean who knows??!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.
what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.
most democratic run states would do the opposite of a trump administration national policy on covid just look at the rhetoric about the vaccine from them, please stop with this bs , the personal hatred goes beyond anything even people dying for trump and Democrat politicians
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:20:31 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 19, 2020, 04:04:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.
what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.

He also needs to start co-ordinating with the incoming Administration and maybe a meeting with his Coronavirus taskforce this last 5 months might have helped things a bit I mean who knows??!

Yes, of course!

But the first part would involve acknowledging his defeat and the second would involve publicly admitting that COVID is a massive, real problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:28:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.
what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.
most democratic run states would do the opposite of a trump administration national policy on covid just look at the rhetoric about the vaccine from them, please stop with this bs , the personal hatred goes beyond anything even people dying for trump and Democrat politicians

That's nonsense.

1. Some GOP-led states have also ploughed an independent path from what Trump said, because, Trump spouted a lot of shite for so long. Had Trump led a mature, science/medicine-based approach instead of politicizing the pandemic because it was an election year, (a) most of these states would have followed his lead; (b) he'd likely have been re-elected.

2. Multiple states have said they want to do their own reviews of the vaccine, and don't want to rely just on the Trump administration's say so. There may of course be some political posturing involved, but Trump is the one who politicized the pandemic and the output from the FDA and CDC in the first place. Even after Pfizer came out last week, the main thing he had to say was to complain that they'd supposedly held back on the announcement just to hurt his chances of re-election. HE is the one who months ago tied the pending announcements of the vaccines to the election. I'm perfectly happy for NY State to run a second, independent set of eyes over the vaccine review before approving it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 04:39:18 PM
NY Times chart of measures vs current cases, definite pattern there. 
(https://i.ibb.co/NnkRPdc/Screenshot-2020-11-19-States-That-Imposed-Few-Restrictions-Now-Have-the-Worst-Outbreaks-1.png) (https://ibb.co/3Y8Kq9g)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 19, 2020, 04:40:39 PM
a pattern of blurred vision?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 19, 2020, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 19, 2020, 02:43:50 AM
Looks like the racist coup attempt in Michigan hasn't made it into the conservative media bubble.

Apparently after agreeing to sign off on the results due to the backlash, the two GOPers then came out yesterday and said they take back their agreement!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/19/wayne-county-rescind-certifying-election/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/19/wayne-county-rescind-certifying-election/)

After a phone call from a certain man at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue no less
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:42:19 PM
Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 04:51:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:42:19 PM
Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.

Perhaps people in Vermont are adults, likely they watch Canadian TV.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:42:19 PM
Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.
bernie is from Vermont and did a lot of canvassing for joe so there's that , Vermont is sparsely populated so not a good example of dealing with covid .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 19, 2020, 04:55:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 04:51:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:42:19 PM
Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.

Perhaps people in Vermont are adults, likely they watch Canadian TV.

It's not too rosy up there at the minute with regards to the virus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 05:00:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 04:51:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:42:19 PM
Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.

Perhaps people in Vermont are adults, likely they watch Canadian TV.
is there a Canadian political thread maybe the conversation there would be more to your liking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 05:20:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:42:19 PM
Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.
bernie is from Vermont and did a lot of canvassing for joe so there's that , Vermont is sparsely populated so not a good example of dealing with covid .

They're a better example of dealing with COVID than the likes of Iowa, the Dakotas and so on which are equally or more sparsely populated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 19, 2020, 05:49:57 PM
Rudy is melting live on TV right now

(https://i.postimg.cc/c41XyqYJ/Screen-Shot-2020-11-19-at-9-44-19-AM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2020, 06:06:29 PM
What IS that dripping anyway? ;D

Apparently he made a holy show of himself in court the other day. Appeared clueless and constantly contradicted himself, spewing the same, baseless shite he's no doubt talking about in this press conference, except that a judge doesn't just sit there and allow it to pass without response.

Word is too that he's charging Trump 20 grand a day for this dog and pony show!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 19, 2020, 06:07:59 PM
Trump's "legal" team  are on  Fox news 24 hour coverage of the fraud. They're just relaying the same debunked conspiracy theories, namely  the unholy trinity of  Dominion, Hugo Chavez and Smartmatic, apparantly 3 letter agencies are also in on the fix.   They're not taking questions because "you are all fake news -   your opinion does not matter".

I thought Hugo was dead:
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 19, 2020, 06:34:37 PM
Rudy  ("give the people the truth") claims in his hectoring tone  that electoral votes in Germany and Spain were also cast by this software, but he doesn't have the time to go into that and get the evidence. Apparently  > 70% of Republicans believe in the fraud conspiracy. I get that, from just listening to  Trudy my brain cells are dying in their millions by the minute.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 06:49:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 05:00:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 04:51:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2020, 04:42:19 PM
Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.

Perhaps people in Vermont are adults, likely they watch Canadian TV.
is there a Canadian political thread maybe the conversation there would be more to your liking

Probably not, the Canadians put Loons on their currency not in charge of their government.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 11:45:47 PM
Hypocrite pos newsom now issuing a curfew in California for counties In purple tier , Hope his next big shindig wraps up early .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 20, 2020, 01:17:27 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 19, 2020, 11:45:47 PM
Hypocrite pos newsom now issuing a curfew in California for counties In purple tier , Hope his next big shindig wraps up early .

Make sure you're not like him and do the right thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 20, 2020, 01:18:44 AM
Georgia recount confirms Biden won the state.

Will Trump demand another recount just out of spite to try to delay things a while longer?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 20, 2020, 02:22:27 AM
If he doesn't have to pay for it himself, then likely yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 09:11:13 AM
If he hasn't already, Trump and his band of wing nuts are getting into attempted coup territory now.   The Republican Party is in an awful state.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 20, 2020, 09:16:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 19, 2020, 06:07:59 PM
Trump's "legal" team  are on  Fox news 24 hour coverage of the fraud. They're just relaying the same debunked conspiracy theories, namely  the unholy trinity of  Dominion, Hugo Chavez and Smartmatic, apparantly 3 letter agencies are also in on the fix.   They're not taking questions because "you are all fake news -   your opinion does not matter".

I thought Hugo was dead:

He is......

In 2013.

From the grave.

Who is your one, she's even more batshit crazy than Rudi?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 20, 2020, 09:41:49 AM
Even Tucker has lost faith in it calling out Sidney Powell because he wanted to present her evidence on the show and she told him to leave her alone.

They dropped their case in Michigan because they think Wayne County rescinded their certification when they didn't. Trump is flying out 2 State Lawmakers
from Michigan to try and get them to appoint Electors who will vote for him.

It's hilariously funny if it weren't so dangerous for the future of Elections in America. What happens next time the race is actually close?? It'll be bedlam!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 20, 2020, 03:42:51 PM
Similar to the fund the wall campaign,  isn't this election count capaign mostly a scam to seperate Trump supporters from their money? All donations made to the fund  under US$8,000 are diverted elsewhere,  the Republican Party get a 40% cut,  the rest 60% eventually filters out to Trump corporations. Not only that, but the first $8,000 of every donation is so diverted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 20, 2020, 03:43:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 20, 2020, 03:42:51 PM
Similar to the fund the wall campaign,  isn't this election count capaign mostly a scam to seperate Trump supporters from their money? All donations made to the fund  under US$8,000 are diverted elsewhere,  the Republican Party get a 40% cut,  the rest 60% eventually filters out to Trump corporations. Not only that, but the first $8,000 of every donation is so diverted.

I'd say it's a play to keep him out of prison so it gets to a point where he can make a deal for a pardon!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 20, 2020, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 20, 2020, 03:43:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 20, 2020, 03:42:51 PM
Similar to the fund the wall campaign,  isn't this election count capaign mostly a scam to seperate Trump supporters from their money? All donations made to the fund  under US$8,000 are diverted elsewhere,  the Republican Party get a 40% cut,  the rest 60% eventually filters out to Trump corporations. Not only that, but the first $8,000 of every donation is so diverted.

I'd say it's a play to keep him out of prison so it gets to a point where he can make a deal for a pardon!!!
He can't be charged with any crime until Biden takes over and when that happens what cards can Trump possibly hold and  play in order to gain a pardon? and what, a pardon  for everything? rape? fraud? tax evasion? A pardon for all criminal acts yet to be revealed now and  for criminal acts in the future? A lifetime pardon, the pardon of all pardons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 20, 2020, 04:12:12 PM
My prediction is that Trump will eventually accept that he has lost (though he probably not say that publicly). He will then issue federal pardons to his family and cronies. Then he will resign which will enable President Pence to pardon him. This will also allow Trump to avoid the inauguration.
Then Biden will be inaugurated as the 47th President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 20, 2020, 04:25:10 PM
Sounds like lots of boys on here following Keith olbermann on twitter .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 20, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 20, 2020, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 20, 2020, 03:43:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 20, 2020, 03:42:51 PM
Similar to the fund the wall campaign,  isn't this election count capaign mostly a scam to seperate Trump supporters from their money? All donations made to the fund  under US$8,000 are diverted elsewhere,  the Republican Party get a 40% cut,  the rest 60% eventually filters out to Trump corporations. Not only that, but the first $8,000 of every donation is so diverted.

I'd say it's a play to keep him out of prison so it gets to a point where he can make a deal for a pardon!!!
He can't be charged with any crime until Biden takes over and when that happens what cards can Trump possibly hold and  play in order to gain a pardon? and what, a pardon  for everything? rape? fraud? tax evasion? A pardon for all criminal acts yet to be revealed now and  for criminal acts in the future? A lifetime pardon, the pardon of all pardons.

Stuff like rape, for the sake of argument, would be a local or state level charge. I don't even know if there is a federal crime of sexual assault (I could be wrong). Neither Trump nor Biden would have any authority over what a state or city DA prosecuted. Any pardons they could issue would be only for federal crimes. Which is why Trump has potential problems with the invesigations currently taking place in the Manhattan DA's office, and the New York State AG. As far as I'm aware, the Manhattan ones could potentially result in prison sentences, were he to be prosecuted and found guilty.

And I don't see how there could be a pardon for criminal acts that haven't been committed yet!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 20, 2020, 05:32:30 PM
Just a snap shot of what's going on in Oregon a Democrat stronghold  if the police come to your house at thanksgiving you can have heroin, cocaine and meth at your home but nobody from outside your immediate family . Also poor joe couldn't answer the one question he was asked yesterday and the reporter had to ask him if was ok to ask Kamala same question so they could get an answer .  I gave joe 2 years before he's gone 6 months looking more like it .

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 20, 2020, 05:48:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 20, 2020, 05:32:30 PM
Just a snap shot of what's going on in Oregon a Democrat stronghold  if the police come to your house at thanksgiving you can have heroin, cocaine and meth at your home but nobody from outside your immediate family . Also poor joe couldn't answer the one question he was asked yesterday and the reporter had to ask him if was ok to ask Kamala same question so they could get an answer .  I gave joe 2 years before he's gone 6 months looking more like it .

Oregon - two separate issues. Whether or not you disagree with decriminalizing narcotics, you can't argue that the war on drugs hasn't been a complete failure which has done little except fill the pockets and graves of organized crime. Oregon made their choice. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Here's a transcript of yesterday's press conference. What question are you referring to?
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/joe-biden-kamala-harris-covid-19-press-conference-after-meeting-with-governors-transcript (https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/joe-biden-kamala-harris-covid-19-press-conference-after-meeting-with-governors-transcript)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 20, 2020, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?
im more concerned with the well mannered well dressed thug in Sacramento than a bunch of halfwits in the sticks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 07:38:08 PM
I'll take that as a NO then >:(

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 07:39:13 PM
Just when you thought it was impossible to top Giuliani not knowing the meaning of the word "opacity" and hair dye flowing out of his whatever, today in Rethuglican incompetence:

Republican lawyers confused Michigan with Minnesota in an election lawsuit they eventually lost
(https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-lawyers-confuse-minnesota-michigan-in-georgia-election-case-2020-11?utm_campaign=sf-insider-main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR3nYePMCgBVaPN8te_P0ytfB8NzJMqpYOLF50CoOjnlslbC2syXZjyh1dQ)

A Republican celebrity lawyer allied with President Donald Trump filed a lawsuit in Georgia that confused the states of Michigan and Minnesota.

The lawyer, Lin Wood, is a staunch conservative and asked a court to halt the certification of election results in Georgia, alleging that Georgia's Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, hurt him as a voter by agreeing to a settlement over signature-matching on ballots in March.

Wood's lawsuit included over a dozen affidavits that his lawyers argued proved his case. But one of those affidavits, filed by a Texas resident and cybersecurity expert named Russell Ramsland, centered entirely on election results in Michigan and not Georgia. More than that, as one Georgia lawyer named Andrew Fleischman pointed out, the Ramsland affidavit appeared to confuse Minnesota (MN) for Michigan (MI).

Ramsland highlighted a number of "statistical anomalies and red flags" that he claimed proved "that election results have been manipulated within the Dominion/Premier system in Michigan." Specifically, he said he discovered 19 precincts in Michigan where the number of votes cast in the general election exceeded the number of registered voters in the county.

But Ramsland had confused precincts in Minnesota with those in Michigan. In other words, he "was counting the population of towns in Minnesota, seeing they did not match Michigan towns, and finding fraud," Fleischman wrote.

US District Judge Steven Grimberg, who was appointed by President Donald Trump, dismissed Wood's lawsuit on Thursday, saying, "To halt the certification at literally the eleventh hour would breed confusion and disenfranchisement that I find have no basis in fact and law."

"It is well established that garden-variety election disputes do not rise to the level of a constitutional deprivation," Grimberg ruled. "The fact that his candidate didn't win doesn't rise to the level of harm."

Wood said on Twitter Thursday that he would appeal the decision. On Thursday evening, Georgia completed its risk-limiting audit, in which election officials did a hand recount of the more than five million paper ballots that were cast in the election.

The final tally showed that President-elect Joe Biden received 49.5% of the vote and President Donald Trump received 49.3%, cementing Biden's Georgia's win by more than 12,000 votes and ensuring he will get the state's 16 Electoral College votes. Raffensperger is set to certify the results on Friday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 07:39:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 07:38:08 PM
I'll take that as a NO then >:(

You expect these people to condemn white supremacist terrorists? You must be new here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 20, 2020, 08:11:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 07:39:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 07:38:08 PM
I'll take that as a NO then >:(

You expect these people to condemn white supremacist terrorists? You must be new here.
eamon don't leave your home after 10pm gav will have  the gestapo out looking for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 20, 2020, 11:10:07 PM
Trump junior has Covid

Should serve as an interesting test case for how a massive cocaine addiction affects coping with the virus
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 11:26:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2020, 11:10:07 PM
Trump junior has Covid

Should serve as an interesting test case for how a massive cocaine addiction affects coping with the virus

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 11:35:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 07:39:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 07:38:08 PM
I'll take that as a NO then >:(

You expect these people to condemn white supremacist terrorists? You must be new here.
No and No.
Just drawing him out ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 21, 2020, 01:54:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 20, 2020, 11:10:07 PM
Trump junior has Covid

Should serve as an interesting test case for how a massive cocaine addiction affects coping with the virus

How many of these morons have come down with COVID?

And it's not just the White House staff. Chuck Grassley has it. Rick Scott. Ben Carson just announced today that he was very seriously ill.

They're all spreading it to each other, even as they mock the Dems for mask wearing.

And they're supposed to be leading the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 21, 2020, 01:58:23 AM
On a completely unrelated note, how are sales of Melania's "I really don't care, do u?" tops going?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 21, 2020, 11:07:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 20, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 20, 2020, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 20, 2020, 03:43:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 20, 2020, 03:42:51 PM
Similar to the fund the wall campaign,  isn't this election count capaign mostly a scam to seperate Trump supporters from their money? All donations made to the fund  under US$8,000 are diverted elsewhere,  the Republican Party get a 40% cut,  the rest 60% eventually filters out to Trump corporations. Not only that, but the first $8,000 of every donation is so diverted.

I'd say it's a play to keep him out of prison so it gets to a point where he can make a deal for a pardon!!!
He can't be charged with any crime until Biden takes over and when that happens what cards can Trump possibly hold and  play in order to gain a pardon? and what, a pardon  for everything? rape? fraud? tax evasion? A pardon for all criminal acts yet to be revealed now and  for criminal acts in the future? A lifetime pardon, the pardon of all pardons.

Stuff like rape, for the sake of argument, would be a local or state level charge. I don't even know if there is a federal crime of sexual assault (I could be wrong). Neither Trump nor Biden would have any authority over what a state or city DA prosecuted. Any pardons they could issue would be only for federal crimes. Which is why Trump has potential problems with the invesigations currently taking place in the Manhattan DA's office, and the New York State AG. As far as I'm aware, the Manhattan ones could potentially result in prison sentences, were he to be prosecuted and found guilty.

And I don't see how there could be a pardon for criminal acts that haven't been committed yet!
I don't see where Trump has cards left to negotiatie any type of pardon
Screenexile has a point though, there have been examples of  an acting president negotiating an exit in exchange for a complete pardon. The most recent of course was with Nixon. That pardon disinfected  better than bleach. Nixon resigned from office before impeachment and did it relatively gracefully  and as a reward he got that super pardon from Pres Ford.
Trump could have done a similar deal for a federal pardon when he was impeached.

I see the  fund raising for trump election legal campaign is  also being used to fill the coffers of the South Dakota governor. The governor's fund raising slogan is "help us bring it home for the president," but donations flow into her own reelection account.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 21, 2020, 11:47:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 07:39:13 PM
Just when you thought it was impossible to top Giuliani not knowing the meaning of the word "opacity" and hair dye flowing out of his whatever, today in Rethuglican incompetence:

Republican lawyers confused Michigan with Minnesota in an election lawsuit they eventually lost
(https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-lawyers-confuse-minnesota-michigan-in-georgia-election-case-2020-11?utm_campaign=sf-insider-main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR3nYePMCgBVaPN8te_P0ytfB8NzJMqpYOLF50CoOjnlslbC2syXZjyh1dQ)

A Republican celebrity lawyer allied with President Donald Trump filed a lawsuit in Georgia that confused the states of Michigan and Minnesota.

The lawyer, Lin Wood, is a staunch conservative and asked a court to halt the certification of election results in Georgia, alleging that Georgia's Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, hurt him as a voter by agreeing to a settlement over signature-matching on ballots in March.

Wood's lawsuit included over a dozen affidavits that his lawyers argued proved his case. But one of those affidavits, filed by a Texas resident and cybersecurity expert named Russell Ramsland, centered entirely on election results in Michigan and not Georgia. More than that, as one Georgia lawyer named Andrew Fleischman pointed out, the Ramsland affidavit appeared to confuse Minnesota (MN) for Michigan (MI).

Ramsland highlighted a number of "statistical anomalies and red flags" that he claimed proved "that election results have been manipulated within the Dominion/Premier system in Michigan." Specifically, he said he discovered 19 precincts in Michigan where the number of votes cast in the general election exceeded the number of registered voters in the county.

But Ramsland had confused precincts in Minnesota with those in Michigan. In other words, he "was counting the population of towns in Minnesota, seeing they did not match Michigan towns, and finding fraud," Fleischman wrote.

US District Judge Steven Grimberg, who was appointed by President Donald Trump, dismissed Wood's lawsuit on Thursday, saying, "To halt the certification at literally the eleventh hour would breed confusion and disenfranchisement that I find have no basis in fact and law."

"It is well established that garden-variety election disputes do not rise to the level of a constitutional deprivation," Grimberg ruled. "The fact that his candidate didn't win doesn't rise to the level of harm."

Wood said on Twitter Thursday that he would appeal the decision. On Thursday evening, Georgia completed its risk-limiting audit, in which election officials did a hand recount of the more than five million paper ballots that were cast in the election.

The final tally showed that President-elect Joe Biden received 49.5% of the vote and President Donald Trump received 49.3%, cementing Biden's Georgia's win by more than 12,000 votes and ensuring he will get the state's 16 Electoral College votes. Raffensperger is set to certify the results on Friday.

This is the sort of embarrassing, humiliating shit that happens when you're desperately rummaging around looking for some kind of "evidence" to fit the suit you've already filed in court, instead of the usual method of allowing evidence and facts to lead the way.

It's "Quick, get something on the docket " so we can make it look like there is something suspect going on. Doesn't matter a f**k whether there is or not.

This whole exercise ought to be an utter humiliation for the GOP, leading to a serious examination of  what they stand for i.e. a set of political principles, not just raw power for its own sake. It won't though. They won't be humiliated. The party IS only interested in raw power, and I n their own twisted, misinformed minds, the GOP base will feel bitter and cheated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 12:07:49 PM
I think there's too much focus on ridiculing the coup attempt as a clown car

Maybe the apparent clown car stuff is not deliberate, maybe it is just pure incompetence and spoofery

But it shouldn't be assumed so

If I wanted to stage a coup to steal an election, the one strategy I'd use to set the wheels in motion is a blizzard of overt buffoonery to mask more serious stuff going on elsewhere

If you control the narrative with a blizzard of buffoonery, you can work away in the background if you actually have a serious plan

My belief is that it should be assumed Barr has been cooking up a serious plan to steal the election until proven otherwise

If you were serious about stealing the election, that plan would probably not become apparent until quite late - ie. well into December

It should be assumed that these bastards have a bit more up their sleeve yet

And whatever happens, the next 60 days are going to be crazy and dangerous
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 21, 2020, 12:13:48 PM
I think it already is getting very dangerous tbh. The language being used by lawyers etc is not good. Like Johnson trump has a lot more behind him than sheer buffoonery. There are a lot of minds behind this much greater than trump's. It somehow need nipped in the bud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 12:25:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 21, 2020, 12:13:48 PM
I think it already is getting very dangerous tbh. The language being used by lawyers etc is not good. Like Johnson trump has a lot more behind him than sheer buffoonery. There are a lot of minds behind this much greater than trump's. It somehow need nipped in the bud.
Well I suppose it has been dangerous since at least June 16th, 2015, which was when Trump announced his candidacy

Things have never not been dangerous since then

How do you de-program tens of millions of people? I have no idea but mollycoddling their crazy beliefs is not the answer - that's right wing political correctness, that's censorship

As Fintan O'Toole said, there is no safe dose of fascism - and it's horrific to even see some so called liberal centrist commentators (hello Larry Donnelly) or dirtbag fake leftists (hello Glenn Griftwald) still believing that there is, and believing that the "better angels" of Republicans and Trumpists can be appealed to

There are no better angels, only a desire to install the fantasy world of make believe as the official, unchallenged ruling ideology of the US, to rip apart democracy and install kleptocracy and racist ethnonationalism forever

And that tends to lead to genocide

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 21, 2020, 01:50:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 21, 2020, 11:47:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 07:39:13 PM
Just when you thought it was impossible to top Giuliani not knowing the meaning of the word "opacity" and hair dye flowing out of his whatever, today in Rethuglican incompetence:

Republican lawyers confused Michigan with Minnesota in an election lawsuit they eventually lost
(https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-lawyers-confuse-minnesota-michigan-in-georgia-election-case-2020-11?utm_campaign=sf-insider-main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR3nYePMCgBVaPN8te_P0ytfB8NzJMqpYOLF50CoOjnlslbC2syXZjyh1dQ)

A Republican celebrity lawyer allied with President Donald Trump filed a lawsuit in Georgia that confused the states of Michigan and Minnesota.

The lawyer, Lin Wood, is a staunch conservative and asked a court to halt the certification of election results in Georgia, alleging that Georgia's Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, hurt him as a voter by agreeing to a settlement over signature-matching on ballots in March.

Wood's lawsuit included over a dozen affidavits that his lawyers argued proved his case. But one of those affidavits, filed by a Texas resident and cybersecurity expert named Russell Ramsland, centered entirely on election results in Michigan and not Georgia. More than that, as one Georgia lawyer named Andrew Fleischman pointed out, the Ramsland affidavit appeared to confuse Minnesota (MN) for Michigan (MI).

Ramsland highlighted a number of "statistical anomalies and red flags" that he claimed proved "that election results have been manipulated within the Dominion/Premier system in Michigan." Specifically, he said he discovered 19 precincts in Michigan where the number of votes cast in the general election exceeded the number of registered voters in the county.

But Ramsland had confused precincts in Minnesota with those in Michigan. In other words, he "was counting the population of towns in Minnesota, seeing they did not match Michigan towns, and finding fraud," Fleischman wrote.

US District Judge Steven Grimberg, who was appointed by President Donald Trump, dismissed Wood's lawsuit on Thursday, saying, "To halt the certification at literally the eleventh hour would breed confusion and disenfranchisement that I find have no basis in fact and law."

"It is well established that garden-variety election disputes do not rise to the level of a constitutional deprivation," Grimberg ruled. "The fact that his candidate didn't win doesn't rise to the level of harm."

Wood said on Twitter Thursday that he would appeal the decision. On Thursday evening, Georgia completed its risk-limiting audit, in which election officials did a hand recount of the more than five million paper ballots that were cast in the election.

The final tally showed that President-elect Joe Biden received 49.5% of the vote and President Donald Trump received 49.3%, cementing Biden's Georgia's win by more than 12,000 votes and ensuring he will get the state's 16 Electoral College votes. Raffensperger is set to certify the results on Friday.

This is the sort of embarrassing, humiliating shit that happens when you're desperately rummaging around looking for some kind of "evidence" to fit the suit you've already filed in court, instead of the usual method of allowing evidence and facts to lead the way.

It's "Quick, get something on the docket " so we can make it look like there is something suspect going on. Doesn't matter a f**k whether there is or not.

This whole exercise ought to be an utter humiliation for the GOP, leading to a serious examination of  what they stand for i.e. a set of political principles, not just raw power for its own sake. It won't though. They won't be humiliated. The party IS only interested in raw power, and I n their own twisted, misinformed minds, the GOP base will feel bitter and cheated.

The judge's dismissal of the case was a  rapier like total humiliation  "The fact that his candidate didn't win doesn't rise to the level of harm."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 21, 2020, 02:32:31 PM
I think most conservatives are more concerned about the run off for senate in Georgia and talk of an attempted coup will go down as silly and completely out of touch none sense .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 21, 2020, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 21, 2020, 02:32:31 PM
I think most conservatives are more concerned about the run off for senate in Georgia and talk of an attempted coup will go down as silly and completely out of touch none sense .

Silly and out of touch on whose part?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 21, 2020, 02:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 21, 2020, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 21, 2020, 02:32:31 PM
I think most conservatives are more concerned about the run off for senate in Georgia and talk of an attempted coup will go down as silly and completely out of touch none sense .

Silly and out of touch on whose part?
mr Trump is entitled to file these lawsuits however frivolous they are ,  but the reality is Biden is the president elect and will take over on set date and talk of a coup are none sense to me .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 21, 2020, 04:01:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 21, 2020, 02:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 21, 2020, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 21, 2020, 02:32:31 PM
I think most conservatives are more concerned about the run off for senate in Georgia and talk of an attempted coup will go down as silly and completely out of touch none sense .

Silly and out of touch on whose part?
mr Trump is entitled to file these lawsuits however frivolous they are ,  but the reality is Biden is the president elect and will take over on set date and talk of a coup are none sense to me .

Its not nonsense when the President of the US is trying to get ballots thrown out and, parallel to that, trying to strong arm members of his party and trying in court to overturn the votes of the people in various states.

It is an attempted coup.

That's its ham-fisted and doomed to fail is irrelevant. The Senate Majority Leader, House Minority Leader and the party at large are either standing idly by, or worse, offering encouragement, as all this takes place, further poisoning the well of American politics and society.

More than three quarters of the GOP electorate thinks that the election has been stolen. That Trump is getting hammered in court over and over again is irrelevant. The courts, even the Trump-appointed judges, are merely deep state actors also in on the con. These people are sinking ever more deeply into an alternate reality where conspiracy theories rule the day and basic facts are "in dispute". Even Tucker f**king Carlson got blasted the other night for having the temerity and rare moment of conscience to call out Sidney Powell for her utterly lunatic Hugo Chavez/George Soros/voting machine "claims".

The US is going to be ungovernable soon due to the right wing media and the GOP's embrace of conspiracy theories and fake victimhood. I don't what the solution is.

And since when are frivolous lawsuits ok?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 21, 2020, 04:19:16 PM
It  changed from an attempted  swindle  to an attempted coup  when Trump tried to convince Michigan lawmakers to invalidate the vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 21, 2020, 11:39:10 PM
Has the US been invaded by Canadians?

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/126856732_1033319443839762_343133371278256251_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=iaomQcbvDdEAX_az87Y&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=a2eee965f9a4ff4149265aa617cafaee&oe=5FDF8136)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 22, 2020, 08:53:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 21, 2020, 02:32:31 PM
I think most conservatives are more concerned about the run off for senate in Georgia and talk of an attempted coup will go down as silly and completely out of touch none sense .

What about those lads on Parler calling for a boycott of the run off or stroking out the name of the GOP candidates and writing in Trump?

I think an independent investigation of education standards and possibly diet in USA needs to moved up the Biden agenda
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armamike on November 22, 2020, 10:56:27 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 21, 2020, 02:32:31 PM
I think most conservatives are more concerned about the run off for senate in Georgia and talk of an attempted coup will go down as silly and completely out of touch none sense .

What term would you use then to describe it?  Sitting president loses an election across several states and declares he has nonetheless won.  Is this a pseudo coup?  It looks like he's lost any marbles he may once have had.  If he persists with this nonsensical tosh the more unhinged among his brainwashed followers could do something nasty. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 22, 2020, 11:23:44 PM
So Sidney Powell has just been ghosted by the Trump legal team... it is getting very funny at this stage!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2020, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 22, 2020, 11:23:44 PM
So Sidney Powell has just been ghosted by the Trump legal team... it is getting very funny at this stage!!

;D ;D ;D

I'd been waiting with baited breath for the past week for her to "release the Kraken" (her words, gleefully spread through the lunatic right wing all week).

Giuliani is still hanging in there though.

20 grand per day remember!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 22, 2020, 11:53:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 22, 2020, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 22, 2020, 11:23:44 PM
So Sidney Powell has just been ghosted by the Trump legal team... it is getting very funny at this stage!!

;D ;D ;D

I'd been waiting with baited breath for the past week for her to "release the Kraken" (her words, gleefully spread through the lunatic right wing all week).

Giuliani is still hanging in there though.

20 grand per day remember!
Giuliani and Trump are each kompromised by the other and each kompromised by Russia, they can't cut each other loose
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 23, 2020, 03:49:52 PM
I would like to congratulate the city of Chicago for reaching 700 homicides in record quick time this year. 

Pulling down that statue of Christopher Columbus has definitely made the city a safer place

Keep up the good work

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2020, 03:49:52 PM
I would like to congratulate the city of Chicago for reaching 700 homicides in record quick time this year. 

Pulling down that statue of Christopher Columbus has definitely made the city a safer place

Keep up the good work

Disappointing cos I know a lot of people were linking the taking down of the statue with a reduction in the homicide rate. I guess that was just wishful thinking.

There is a lot of sunshine in your world
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 23, 2020, 04:11:13 PM
Conservatives love the crime in Chicago. It has numerous causes, including the lax gun laws in nearby Indiana, but it's one of these outliers that conservatives think proves their rules.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 23, 2020, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 23, 2020, 03:49:52 PM
I would like to congratulate the city of Chicago for reaching 700 homicides in record quick time this year. 

Pulling down that statue of Christopher Columbus has definitely made the city a safer place

Keep up the good work

Disappointing cos I know a lot of people were linking the taking down of the statue with a reduction in the homicide rate. I guess that was just wishful thinking.

There is a lot of sunshine in your world

Indeed.

Everyone in Chicago who works on social deprivation, unemployment, drugs and gangs, mental illness, police corruption and so on and on, they were all banking on the removal of the statue to cure everything in one fell swoop.

And now that the murder rate in Chicago is still a massive problem, that means that all those fighting for the respect of minorities and the acknowledgement of the adverse effects of European conquest, colonialism and slavery should just shut up and get that confederate flag up on their porch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 23, 2020, 04:20:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 23, 2020, 04:11:13 PM
Conservatives love the crime in Chicago. It has numerous causes, including the lax gun laws in nearby Indiana, but it's one of these outliers that conservatives think proves their rules.

No doubt there's some "clever" meme going around Parler this morning.

I wonder how they're coping with Sidney Powell's sacking?

Probably more Trump 5D chess.

The Kraken WILL be released. Trump WILL get a second term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 05:03:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 23, 2020, 04:11:13 PM
Conservatives love the crime in Chicago. It has numerous causes, including the lax gun laws in nearby Indiana, but it's one of these outliers that conservatives think proves their rules.

Whitey must have had a bet on Chicago homicide rates as I think he only gets involved in issues that have a financial impact on him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: rrhf on November 23, 2020, 06:49:51 PM
What have the people behind and smarter than trump have up their sleeve with all this ridiculous amateur bullshit smokescreen. What's really happening America?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 07:31:00 PM
The Sid and Trudy show  was the best bit of theatre on the Stop the Steal tour.
I see Fox News has gone up a hysteria gear,  Biden is coming  - red alert!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 23, 2020, 08:58:34 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 23, 2020, 06:49:51 PM
What have the people behind and smarter than trump have up their sleeve with all this ridiculous amateur bullshit smokescreen. What's really happening America?

Trump was a frequent flyer in courtrooms. He'd tie people up with endless (often pointless) lawsuits to the point where they'd give up. He probably thinks he can do the same with American democracy. It would explain why so many of his suits are being thrown out for lack of any evidence. I hear the plan is to delay the certification process so that he can trip a constitutional loophole that lets the House vote on the outcome of the election with voting weighted by state, which would give the Rethuglicans a voting majority even though they're in a minority.

More here: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2020/11/19/trump-game-plan-invalidating-election-holding-presidency/6350322002/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2020, 09:24:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 07:31:00 PMI see Fox News has gone up a hysteria gear,  Biden is coming  - red alert!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EncyIAbWEAUQAjI?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 23, 2020, 09:33:45 PM
Nothing for Hilary so?   Or is she just in charge of e-mail and PR?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 23, 2020, 10:37:04 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2020, 09:24:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 07:31:00 PMI see Fox News has gone up a hysteria gear,  Biden is coming  - red alert!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EncyIAbWEAUQAjI?format=jpg&name=medium)
Ilhan Omar would be a very good pick for Homeland Security
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2020, 11:28:32 PM
Finally - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/politics/transition-biden-gsa-begin/index.html

QuoteThe General Services Administration has informed President-elect Joe Biden that the Trump administration is ready to begin the formal transition process, according to a letter from Administrator Emily Murphy sent Monday afternoon and obtained by CNN.

The letter is the first step the administration has taken to acknowledge President Donald Trump's defeat, more than two weeks after Biden was declared the winner in the election. Murphy said she had not been pressured by the White House to delay the formal transition and did not make a decision "out of fear or favoritism."

"Please know that I came to my decision independently, based on the law and available facts," Murphy wrote. "I was never directly or indirectly pressured by any Executive Branch official -- including those who work at the White House or GSA -- with regard to the substance or timing of my decision. To be clear, I did not receive any direction to delay my determination."

The letter signals that Murphy has formally signed off on Biden's victory, a normally perfunctory process known as ascertainment. The move will allow the transition to officially begin, permitting current administration agency officials to coordinate with the incoming Biden team, and providing millions in government funding for the transition.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2020, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2020, 09:24:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 07:31:00 PMI see Fox News has gone up a hysteria gear,  Biden is coming  - red alert!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EncyIAbWEAUQAjI?format=jpg&name=medium)

;D

Fox getting desperate now as the hordes flee to the nether worlds of OAN and Newsmax.

Nothing like a healthy dose of Warren, Sanders and The Squad to scare the bejesus out of the old bigoted bastards and keep them onside.

Meanwhile, the Banana Republican Party continues with its "quest" to overturn the democratic wishes of the people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armamike on November 24, 2020, 02:29:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 23, 2020, 08:58:34 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 23, 2020, 06:49:51 PM
What have the people behind and smarter than trump have up their sleeve with all this ridiculous amateur bullshit smokescreen. What's really happening America?

Trump was a frequent flyer in courtrooms. He'd tie people up with endless (often pointless) lawsuits to the point where they'd give up. He probably thinks he can do the same with American democracy. It would explain why so many of his suits are being thrown out for lack of any evidence. I hear the plan is to delay the certification process so that he can trip a constitutional loophole that lets the House vote on the outcome of the election with voting weighted by state, which would give the Rethuglicans a voting majority even though they're in a minority.

More here: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2020/11/19/trump-game-plan-invalidating-election-holding-presidency/6350322002/

He's more bananas than I thought then.  If in some parallel universe he managed to pull this off I would expect the US would be ostracised by world leaders who simply wouldn't recognise this new dictatorship regime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 24, 2020, 02:39:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2020, 09:24:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 07:31:00 PMI see Fox News has gone up a hysteria gear,  Biden is coming  - red alert!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EncyIAbWEAUQAjI?format=jpg&name=medium)
If you ain't gonna win a Pulitzer you might as well go for an Emmy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on November 24, 2020, 02:43:07 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 24, 2020, 02:29:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 23, 2020, 08:58:34 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 23, 2020, 06:49:51 PM
What have the people behind and smarter than trump have up their sleeve with all this ridiculous amateur bullshit smokescreen. What's really happening America?

Trump was a frequent flyer in courtrooms. He'd tie people up with endless (often pointless) lawsuits to the point where they'd give up. He probably thinks he can do the same with American democracy. It would explain why so many of his suits are being thrown out for lack of any evidence. I hear the plan is to delay the certification process so that he can trip a constitutional loophole that lets the House vote on the outcome of the election with voting weighted by state, which would give the Rethuglicans a voting majority even though they're in a minority.

More here: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2020/11/19/trump-game-plan-invalidating-election-holding-presidency/6350322002/

He's more bananas than I thought then.  If in some parallel universe he managed to pull this off I would expect the US would be ostracised by world leaders who simply wouldn't recognise this new dictatorship regime.

You would like to think so but I'm not so confident.

Clearly world leaders would wish the US wasn't ran by a maniac but that is not the same as saying they would stand up to them if they were a maniac. US still wields a lot of power. Just like China.

That said when Biden shows up at international events they will be mighty glad to see him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 24, 2020, 05:08:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2020, 09:24:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 07:31:00 PMI see Fox News has gone up a hysteria gear,  Biden is coming  - red alert!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EncyIAbWEAUQAjI?format=jpg&name=medium)

WTF are they waffling about? Janet Yellen's getting the Treasury job.

Sanders wouldn't be Biden's pick for defense even if he were interested in the job, which he wouldn't be.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2020, 09:55:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 24, 2020, 05:08:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 23, 2020, 09:24:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 07:31:00 PMI see Fox News has gone up a hysteria gear,  Biden is coming  - red alert!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EncyIAbWEAUQAjI?format=jpg&name=medium)

WTF are they waffling about? Janet Yellen's getting the Treasury job.

Sanders wouldn't be Biden's pick for defense even if he were interested in the job, which he wouldn't be.

Biden is going down the technocrat route, but since when did reality matter to the right wing media?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 25, 2020, 09:22:17 PM
Trump has started on the pardons, Gen Flynn first, many more to come no doubt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 25, 2020, 09:33:07 PM
He'll probably pardon a boatload of random criminals in "liberal cities" in the hope that they'll burn the place to the ground.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 26, 2020, 05:21:42 PM
What is going on the with the election? Biden odds are now 1.07 on Betfair and the same in Georgia. I understand that Georgia is having a recount, but they have already audited the ballots and I doubt if a recount will make much difference.  But something has moved the odds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Roesider on November 26, 2020, 05:39:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 26, 2020, 05:21:42 PM
What is going on the with the election? Biden odds are now 1.07 on Betfair and the same in Georgia. I understand that Georgia is having a recount, but they have already audited the ballots and I doubt if a recount will make much difference.  But something has moved the odds.

Seems more like a last ditch attempt to take more money off punters backing Trump.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 26, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
Any word on the Kraken? Is it any way related to the Stay on PA certification?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on November 26, 2020, 08:28:27 PM
Quote from: Roesider on November 26, 2020, 05:39:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 26, 2020, 05:21:42 PM
What is going on the with the election? Biden odds are now 1.07 on Betfair and the same in Georgia. I understand that Georgia is having a recount, but they have already audited the ballots and I doubt if a recount will make much difference.  But something has moved the odds.

Seems more like a last ditch attempt to take more money off punters backing Trump.

I'd happily be one of those taking money off them, but there must have been some news to move the odds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2020, 12:22:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 26, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
Any word on the Kraken? Is it any way related to the Stay on PA certification?

The Kraken has been released in GA and MI. :)

Apparently a stunningly sloppy rehash of all the conspiracy theories Powell had been spreading in the right wing "news" the past two weeks.

Spelling mistakes even in the title.

The PA stay is separate and, from what I read, only applies to races that haven't been certified anyway (presidential race has). Expect it to be dismissed today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2020, 12:23:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 26, 2020, 05:21:42 PM
What is going on the with the election? Biden odds are now 1.07 on Betfair and the same in Georgia. I understand that Georgia is having a recount, but they have already audited the ballots and I doubt if a recount will make much difference.  But something has moved the odds.

Maybe a bunch of reality -denying Trump supporters throwing a bit of deluded money at it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 27, 2020, 08:50:43 PM
The Steal the Vote campaign is on one a hell of a losing streak, Chicago Cubs proportions.  It had started even before Rudy got his hands caught inside his pants, trying to find where his pecker had gone to.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 27, 2020, 09:29:43 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 27, 2020, 08:50:43 PM
The Steal the Vote campaign is on one a hell of a losing streak, Chicago Cubs proportions.  It had started even before Rudy got his hands caught inside his pants, trying to find where his pecker had gone to.

Lost another, scathingly, today in PA.

According to the Elite Stroke Force team, it was "activist" judges.

The one who wrote the opinion was appointed by Trump. The other two by George W. Bush.

I guess it's Trump misfortune that court cases require evidence.

"I saw something which, to my biased, uninformed eye, looked suspicious because Democrats cheat" just doesn't cut in front of a judge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2020, 07:14:21 PM
The winning continues. ;D

And not just court humiliations - Arizona certifies for Biden today.

Trump is going to be like OJ Simpson. He'll be on a quest for years to come looking for the nonexistent real murderer massive voter fraud. I guess they'll hold a few more diehard/lapdog "inquests" like the Gettysburg one on Friday where Rudy is able to wave the "affidavits" in the air and spew nonsense he wouldn't present in court in a million years and Trump can literally phone in his victimization.

And the morons will keep lapping it up, pouring money into his accounts and hanging on his every word to feed their persecution complexes.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on November 30, 2020, 08:15:44 PM
Strangely enough there were a few pro Trump supporters floating around a few weeks ago. Wonder what their view of all this, now that the fallacy of vote stealing has been exposed as a gimmick and a mockery of peoples intelligence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2020, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: bannside on November 30, 2020, 08:15:44 PM
Strangely enough there were a few pro Trump supporters floating around a few weeks ago. Wonder what their view of all this, now that the fallacy of vote stealing has been exposed as a gimmick and a mockery of peoples intelligence?

Its the Democrats' fault.

If Democrats and the mainstream media weren't so nasty and unfair, the GOP would never have sold their souls to Trump and his appeals to white grievance and conspiracy theories.

Never mind that the GOP and their media masters allies been cultivating this for years and Trump is just the logical outcome.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 30, 2020, 11:27:51 PM
In the application of the Trump golf course at Doonbeg  for planning permission to build a 38,000 tons of rock seawall, contained an argument of climate change assisting the erosion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 01, 2020, 01:54:10 AM
Trump's lawyer Jo DiGenova has called for the execution of Trump's cybersecurity guy Chris Krebs, just because Krebs said the election was legitimate

"Legitimate grievances"

"Sick of being talked down to by the woke brigade"

Or something like that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 01, 2020, 02:00:09 AM
I think it must be past time at this stage for networks to scour diners looking for the phenomenon of the Biden voter in the wild

What makes them tick

What made them reject fascism in such numbers

And why the Republicans should start listening to those on the coasts for a change, as well as all those non-coastal folks who rejected them

And why the Republicans should become not fascists
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 01, 2020, 11:30:46 PM
Cash for pardons you say?

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1333909947042701316
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on December 02, 2020, 08:18:50 AM
These pardons really are something you'd expect from a banana republic.

Crazy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on December 02, 2020, 04:23:44 PM
Would Joe diGenova need to purchase one of those pardons or has that kind of stuff become normalised by Trump? The final cancel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 02, 2020, 04:44:52 PM
The pardon thing is abused by both parties, albeit rarely in the manner Trump has done, where he has dangled it in front of would-be witnesses to investigations of himself to persuade them not to cooperate.

Usually its simply someone connected through fundraising or other political connection who gets the benefit.

I've no issue with the principle of granting the power to pardon to the president, but there needs to be some kind of independent, or at least bipartisan, oversight. If someone gets done by a miscarriage of justice, then by all means pardon them. Or do what Ford did with Nixon, where he pardoned him to basically allow the country to move on i.e. there was an arguable greater good involved.

But self-interested pardons, whether financial, political or (in the case of Trump), possibly criminal, should absolutely not be allowed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on December 02, 2020, 05:53:23 PM
These days i'm gettting my kicks from Fox News.
On Fox News the least likely question asked after some contributer makes a wild statement  is "do you have any evidence to suport that statement?". But I nearly fell off my chair when some English twat named Steve on Outnumbered (4 females one guy)  was  asked for evidence to support his claim that the news of the pfizer vaccine was deliberately delayed until the day after the election. He replied that he could think of no other good reason why it was 'delayed'.  Apparantly that passes muster as evidence with flying colours on Fox.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 02, 2020, 06:02:49 PM
Steve Hilton I'm guessing? He was the "Dominic Cummings" to David Cameron
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on December 02, 2020, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 02, 2020, 06:02:49 PM
Steve Hilton I'm guessing? He was the "Dominic Cummings" to David Cameron
That's the name.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 02, 2020, 10:20:04 PM
Trump has just released a 46 minute speech repeating all the bullshit that twitter, parler and his legal team have been spouting over the last month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=720O_yBLrTs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 03, 2020, 01:15:25 AM
The Kraken attorneys today calling for Georgia Republican voters to boycott the upcoming Senate elections! Can't trust those Venezuelan-Chinese Dominion voting machines and bought-off arch-conservative GOP politicians!   :o ;D

Yes, Trump morons, please do exactly that! The country could use a few Democratic judges and some common sense legislation which a Democratic Senate would grant us! 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 03, 2020, 01:56:19 AM
Dear Trumpers. Write in candidate "Donald Trump" for both Georgia senate seats!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 03, 2020, 11:14:08 PM
Biden now over seven million votes ahead

That's a fairly thumping victory
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 04, 2020, 07:52:16 PM
Ossoff and Warnock looking good in Georgia. We might take the Senate and get this Supreme Court expanded yet!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 04, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
Joe broke his foot chasing a puppy around naked after a shower ? Hopefully that's just a joe gaffe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on December 05, 2020, 12:34:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 04, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
Joe broke his foot chasing a puppy around naked after a shower ? Hopefully that's just a joe gaffe

Go back to bed and sleep it off
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on December 05, 2020, 02:16:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 04, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
Joe broke his foot chasing a puppy around naked after a shower ? Hopefully that's just a joe gaffe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 05, 2020, 03:40:07 AM
Quote from: omochain on December 05, 2020, 12:34:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 04, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
Joe broke his foot chasing a puppy around naked after a shower ? Hopefully that's just a joe gaffe

Go back to bed and sleep it off
You won't last long in sf Bay Area if you are too fond of the bed toy maker .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on December 05, 2020, 07:32:35 AM
While the Trump legal campaign losing streak continues unabated, Reuters publish registered figures that the steal conspiracy  campaign has been very successful in scamming over $200m from republicans, but has only spent $9m. That expenditure includes $2m in a sms grift, targetting mugs (aka republicans supporters). Another expense was $3m in Georgia to cover the recount cost which resulted in 87 extra votes for Joe and Kamala. That's about $34,000 per vote.

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-trump-expenses/trump-campaign-spent-more-than-2-million-on-election-lawyers-including-jenna-ellis-idUSKBN28E2VG
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LCohen on December 05, 2020, 08:08:47 AM
How do Republican supporters feel about the state of health of the party?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 05, 2020, 11:26:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 05, 2020, 07:32:35 AM
While the Trump legal campaign losing streak continues unabated, Reuters publish registered figures that the steal conspiracy  campaign has been very successful in scamming over $200m from republicans, but has only spent $9m. That expenditure includes $2m in a sms grift, targetting mugs (aka republicans supporters). Another expense was $3m in Georgia to cover the recount cost which resulted in 87 extra votes for Joe and Kamala. That's about $34,000 per vote.

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-trump-expenses/trump-campaign-spent-more-than-2-million-on-election-lawyers-including-jenna-ellis-idUSKBN28E2VG
Right-wing politics always comes back to the grift, to the scam, to the shameless self-enriching off the backs of gullible idiots

Many Trump supporters are some of the most stupid people in the world, but they are also victims

Victims who have been suckered into having abhorrent views, but victims nonetheless
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on December 05, 2020, 12:41:32 PM
People chose their own views and they don't have to listen to Trump, there are plenty of other sources of information around. Trump supporters are not victims, they are self indulgent prats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2020, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on December 05, 2020, 08:08:47 AM
How do Republican supporters feel about the state of health of the party?

It's unfortunately serious, but it's also amusing to watch.

All madly trying to disown the two QAnon lawyers whom they so recently had warmly embraced.

Getting hammered over and over again by GOP judges for their frivolous, evidence-free attempts to get entire state votes thrown out.

Trump, becoming increasingly irrelevant, caught between his primary motivation, his own personal needs and wants, and that of his party, all while he has completely ceased even trying to look like he's doing his actual job.

The GOP, for decades, has cultivated and nurtured the paranoid, irrational, pseudoscientific, bigoted lunatic fringe of American society to the point where it now entails a controlling majority of its party, from the bottom to the top.

They're stuck with it, as we all unfortunately are, but at least the rest of us didn't ask for it.

Lincoln and TR Roosevelt must be rolling over in their graves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 05, 2020, 01:39:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 05, 2020, 12:41:32 PM
People chose their own views and they don't have to listen to Trump, there are plenty of other sources of information around. Trump supporters are not victims, they are self indulgent prats.
I think they are victims of a sort

They are obviously not the primary victims, there are many, many people who are far bigger victims of Trump and toxic right-wing politics than them

I suppose my point is that propaganda works - if a country's media is allowed to be over run with toxic views which always blames an "out" group, it's not surprising when a lot of people who have shit lives believe these views

They have been invited to completely retreat into a fever dream of feelings which rejects complex reality - and they are not equipped with the tools to understand that they are being played for fools

This was the case in Nazi Germany, Unionist Northern Ireland, Brexit Britain and Republican America

They are victims in the same way that people who fall into cults are victims

The running down of education is a key part of this - that they are ill-equipped to understand they are being played for fools is the deliberate result of decades of right-wing policy





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 05, 2020, 05:53:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 05, 2020, 01:39:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 05, 2020, 12:41:32 PM
People chose their own views and they don't have to listen to Trump, there are plenty of other sources of information around. Trump supporters are not victims, they are self indulgent prats.
I think they are victims of a sort

They are obviously not the primary victims, there are many, many people who are far bigger victims of Trump and toxic right-wing politics than them

I suppose my point is that propaganda works - if a country's media is allowed to be over run with toxic views which always blames an "out" group, it's not surprising when a lot of people who have shit lives believe these views

They have been invited to completely retreat into a fever dream of feelings which rejects complex reality - and they are not equipped with the tools to understand that they are being played for fools

This was the case in Nazi Germany, Unionist Northern Ireland, Brexit Britain and Republican America

They are victims in the same way that people who fall into cults are victims

The running down of education is a key part of this - that they are ill-equipped to understand they are being played for fools is the deliberate result of decades of right-wing policy

Has anyone been getting ads for the Tuttle Twins children's books in their FB feed? I've been getting it. It's libertarian propaganda disguised as a homeschooling resource. You thought the cult of Ayn Rand was bad, there's a whole new generation that's going to be raised on nothing but that crap. This problem of conservative factophobia is not going away anytime soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on December 06, 2020, 12:48:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 04, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
Joe broke his foot chasing a puppy around naked after a shower ? Hopefully that's just a joe gaffe
Hi Gmac how are you? What would you like Biden to do, or policies to implement to guarantee your vote in 4 years time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2020, 10:51:20 PM
Guliani has the rona! He'a the gift that keeps on giving! I wonder if shit-leaking-from-one's-head is a comorbidity.

Oh and the restaurants in Florida seem to be packed. People might scoff at California's growing cases but at least we're trying to do something about it. The red states seem determined to go down in a blaze of glory of mass death.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 07, 2020, 04:47:16 AM
RWNJ terrorists in action. I await the reaction from the so-called "party of family values" and Fox News' coverage of this little episode of the so-called "'war on Christmas" with great interest:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/130517062_1044905362681170_876468463988187651_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=w4XtWuk3m8MAX-4Ek_j&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=fae43d8d7976b3c1875653a79c2682d1&oe=5FF50566)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2020, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 07, 2020, 04:47:16 AM
RWNJ terrorists in action. I await the reaction from the so-called "party of family values" and Fox News' coverage of this little episode of the so-called "'war on Christmas" with great interest:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/130517062_1044905362681170_876468463988187651_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=w4XtWuk3m8MAX-4Ek_j&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=fae43d8d7976b3c1875653a79c2682d1&oe=5FF50566)

All because of poor Donnie's hurt feelings.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2020, 12:33:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2020, 10:51:20 PM
Guliani has the rona! He'a the gift that keeps on giving! I wonder if shit-leaking-from-one's-head is a comorbidity.

Oh and the restaurants in Florida seem to be packed. People might scoff at California's growing cases but at least we're trying to do something about it. The red states seem determined to go down in a blaze of glory of mass death.

Apparently the Arizona legislature is now shut down because of all the GOP idiots who attended Giuliani's pantomine hearing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on December 08, 2020, 12:55:56 AM
Since he hooked up with Trump, Rudy has fallen upon his true calling in life, a conspiracy/virus super spreader.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 11:18:36 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 08, 2020, 12:55:56 AM
Since he hooked up with Trump, Rudy has fallen upon his true calling in life, a conspiracy/virus super spreader.
meanwhile out on the west coast Democrat law makers have legalized heroin and meth in Washington state , the la county prosecutors are not prosecuting the following crimes driving without a license  , trespassing, disturbing the peace, prostitution and resisting arrest . In San Francisco it is illegal to smoke a cigarette or vape in an apartment but smoking marijuana is ok , also in sf you can't smoke within 35 feet of a business but junkies shoot themselves up in business shopfronts with impunity . Liberals being tolerant of all sorts of anti social and illegal activities is destroying the quality of life for the law abiding tax paying residents of these cities .
Also 40 more people shot in Chicago over weekend and 37 the weekend before ,  a liberals paradise.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 08, 2020, 02:06:54 PM
lol - you can't even get the first "fact" in your rant correct. Washington state hasn't legalized heroin or meth.

You may be thinking of Oregon - who recently voted to decriminalize possession of them.

Maybe stay away from those lads puffing on the devil's lettuce  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 08, 2020, 02:13:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 11:18:36 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 08, 2020, 12:55:56 AM
Since he hooked up with Trump, Rudy has fallen upon his true calling in life, a conspiracy/virus super spreader.
meanwhile out on the west coast Democrat law makers have legalized heroin and meth in Washington state , the la county prosecutors are not prosecuting the following crimes driving without a license  , trespassing, disturbing the peace, prostitution and resisting arrest . In San Francisco it is illegal to smoke a cigarette or vape in an apartment but smoking marijuana is ok , also in sf you can't smoke within 35 feet of a business but junkies shoot themselves up in business shopfronts with impunity . Liberals being tolerant of all sorts of anti social and illegal activities is destroying the quality of life for the law abiding tax paying residents of these cities .
Also 40 more people shot in Chicago over weekend and 37 the weekend before ,  a liberals paradise.

1.   Nothing whatsoever to say in defense of Trump, Giuliani, their irresponsibility with respect to COVID and their tinpot-dictator attempts to overturn the election?
2.   I had to look up the SF smoking ban. Surpisingly, it looks like its real in buildings with more than three units, but the exception for marijuana was inserted because apparently inside your home is the only place you can legally smoke it, whereas cigarettes and electronic cigarettes you can go outside. I guess you should advocate to expand the MJ allowances so that it can then be added to the apartment prohibition.
3.   On homelessness and drug use, I read a piece yesterday on some public parks in Seattle being allowed to be overrun with homeless addicts and mentally ill people. The question is do people want cities to prioritize and spend the necessary resources to get these people, whether its Seattle or San Francisco, off the streets and into the necessary care, particularly in a year where budgets are basically bust at all levels of government.
4.   You'll have to provide sources for your claims on L.A. I couldn't see any.
5.   Ticking the Chicago box as always. Tell us, how would the problems of Chicago be any different under a Republican city administration?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 08, 2020, 02:19:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2020, 02:13:11 PM4.   You'll have to provide sources for your claims on L.A. I couldn't see any.

It's littered with exemptions

https://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/SPECIAL-DIRECTIVE-20-07.pdf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 04:57:25 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 08, 2020, 02:19:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2020, 02:13:11 PM4.   You'll have to provide sources for your claims on L.A. I couldn't see any.

It's littered with exemptions

https://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/SPECIAL-DIRECTIVE-20-07.pdf
do you think cops will bother arresting people when they are either released straight away or not prosecuted ? It's a great way to destroy police moral . Also in sf why do you think the icus are full it's not covid it's homeless dudes taking up beds and therefore shutting down the city .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 08, 2020, 05:04:13 PM
Do you have a link showing how Washington legalized heroin?

Cheers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 05:42:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2020, 02:13:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 11:18:36 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 08, 2020, 12:55:56 AM
Since he hooked up with Trump, Rudy has fallen upon his true calling in life, a conspiracy/virus super spreader.
meanwhile out on the west coast Democrat law makers have legalized heroin and meth in Washington state , the la county prosecutors are not prosecuting the following crimes driving without a license  , trespassing, disturbing the peace, prostitution and resisting arrest . In San Francisco it is illegal to smoke a cigarette or vape in an apartment but smoking marijuana is ok , also in sf you can't smoke within 35 feet of a business but junkies shoot themselves up in business shopfronts with impunity . Liberals being tolerant of all sorts of anti social and illegal activities is destroying the quality of life for the law abiding tax paying residents of these cities .
Also 40 more people shot in Chicago over weekend and 37 the weekend before ,  a liberals paradise.

1.   Nothing whatsoever to say in defense of Trump, Giuliani, their irresponsibility with respect to COVID and their tinpot-dictator attempts to overturn the election?
2.   I had to look up the SF smoking ban. Surpisingly, it looks like its real in buildings with more than three units, but the exception for marijuana was inserted because apparently inside your home is the only place you can legally smoke it, whereas cigarettes and electronic cigarettes you can go outside. I guess you should advocate to expand the MJ allowances so that it can then be added to the apartment prohibition.
3.   On homelessness and drug use, I read a piece yesterday on some public parks in Seattle being allowed to be overrun with homeless addicts and mentally ill people. The question is do people want cities to prioritize and spend the necessary resources to get these people, whether its Seattle or San Francisco, off the streets and into the necessary care, particularly in a year where budgets are basically bust at all levels of government.
4.   You'll have to provide sources for your claims on L.A. I couldn't see any.
5.   Ticking the Chicago box as always. Tell us, how would the problems of Chicago be any different under a Republican
n city administration?
joe won that's end of it for me
Ye nobody smokes weed outside their home in sf , it smells like 100 skunks are around every corner.
Mental hospitals need to be reopened because most of the homeless I see need permanent care for life and need to be kept away from the rest of the population.
In Chicago Get into the gang neighborhoods and pull in  suspect gang members and check for weapons arrest and charge anyone caught with a weapon .long sentences for weapon possession.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 08, 2020, 05:58:24 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 08, 2020, 05:04:13 PM
Do you have a link showing how Washington legalized heroin?

Cheers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 06:26:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 08, 2020, 05:58:24 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 08, 2020, 05:04:13 PM
Do you have a link showing how Washington legalized heroin?

Cheers.
got those 2 states mixed up .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 06:40:13 PM
Swalwell a Chinese operative ? Didn't he accuse trump of being a Russian asset .
In sf last week another public official was arrested on bribery charges linked to a Chinese national .
Ccp/Democrat party nice amalgamation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2020, 07:00:26 PM
https://ft.com/content/5eb76ab8-f3fe-4abb-8efa-3bf934a7cfa6... Last week the Washington Post found that only 25 Republicans on Capitol Hill (a tenth of those surveyed) were willing to admit publicly that Mr Biden won the election.

Almost all of the others refused to identify a winner. Trump tweeted: "Please send me a list of the 25 RINOs [Republicans in name only]".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 08, 2020, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 06:40:13 PM
Swalwell a Chinese operative ? Didn't he accuse trump of being a Russian asset .
In sf last week another public official was arrested on bribery charges linked to a Chinese national .
Ccp/Democrat party nice amalgamation.

Swalwell was a "Chinese operative"? Evidence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 08, 2020, 07:50:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 05:42:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2020, 02:13:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 11:18:36 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 08, 2020, 12:55:56 AM
Since he hooked up with Trump, Rudy has fallen upon his true calling in life, a conspiracy/virus super spreader.
meanwhile out on the west coast Democrat law makers have legalized heroin and meth in Washington state , the la county prosecutors are not prosecuting the following crimes driving without a license  , trespassing, disturbing the peace, prostitution and resisting arrest . In San Francisco it is illegal to smoke a cigarette or vape in an apartment but smoking marijuana is ok , also in sf you can't smoke within 35 feet of a business but junkies shoot themselves up in business shopfronts with impunity . Liberals being tolerant of all sorts of anti social and illegal activities is destroying the quality of life for the law abiding tax paying residents of these cities .
Also 40 more people shot in Chicago over weekend and 37 the weekend before ,  a liberals paradise.

1.   Nothing whatsoever to say in defense of Trump, Giuliani, their irresponsibility with respect to COVID and their tinpot-dictator attempts to overturn the election?
2.   I had to look up the SF smoking ban. Surpisingly, it looks like its real in buildings with more than three units, but the exception for marijuana was inserted because apparently inside your home is the only place you can legally smoke it, whereas cigarettes and electronic cigarettes you can go outside. I guess you should advocate to expand the MJ allowances so that it can then be added to the apartment prohibition.
3.   On homelessness and drug use, I read a piece yesterday on some public parks in Seattle being allowed to be overrun with homeless addicts and mentally ill people. The question is do people want cities to prioritize and spend the necessary resources to get these people, whether its Seattle or San Francisco, off the streets and into the necessary care, particularly in a year where budgets are basically bust at all levels of government.
4.   You'll have to provide sources for your claims on L.A. I couldn't see any.
5.   Ticking the Chicago box as always. Tell us, how would the problems of Chicago be any different under a Republican
n city administration?
joe won that's end of it for me
Ye nobody smokes weed outside their home in sf , it smells like 100 skunks are around every corner.
Mental hospitals need to be reopened because most of the homeless I see need permanent care for life and need to be kept away from the rest of the population.
In Chicago Get into the gang neighborhoods and pull in  suspect gang members and check for weapons arrest and charge anyone caught with a weapon .long sentences for weapon possession.

Didn't say no one smokes weed outside, I said it was illegal to do so.

I agree that something needs to be done for the homeless, whether addicts or mentally ill. Coercion runs into the civil liberties issue though. And once a mentally ill person who does go in is getting better and taking their medicines, you can't keep them inside against their will surely?

On Chicago, yes, law enforcement on the gangs is one part of it, but its not the only thing.

Both of these issues need massive investment of public money, unfortunately.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 08, 2020, 11:17:07 PM
Team Trump losing streak continues, SCOTUS shoots down their Pennsylvania case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 09, 2020, 01:45:32 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/130813233_10223119705488275_7741841300985292293_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=H18pk3W0bC4AX-P9OLP&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1e478a05f0c3dfd06923cc50490da48a&oe=5FF68C2E)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 09, 2020, 01:58:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2020, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 06:40:13 PM
Swalwell a Chinese operative ? Didn't he accuse trump of being a Russian asset .
In sf last week another public official was arrested on bribery charges linked to a Chinese national .
Ccp/Democrat party nice amalgamation.

Swalwell was a "Chinese operative"? Evidence?
hes not of course but the same clown would run with a story like this and claim corruption, he is a sc**bag and a fool too it sounds like .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2020, 10:28:52 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2020, 01:58:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 08, 2020, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2020, 06:40:13 PM
Swalwell a Chinese operative ? Didn't he accuse trump of being a Russian asset .
In sf last week another public official was arrested on bribery charges linked to a Chinese national .
Ccp/Democrat party nice amalgamation.

Swalwell was a "Chinese operative"? Evidence?
hes not of course but the same clown would run with a story like this and claim corruption, he is a sc**bag and a fool too it sounds like .

Don't know anything about the man, but from what I read about your "concern", he got rid of the person in question immediately (five years ago) when the FBI informed him and stands accused of nothing.

Is he a transparent shill for China like Trump is for Putin and Russia?

Did he put the "word" of the Chinese premier above the analysis of his own intelligence agencies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on December 10, 2020, 02:47:08 AM
Looks more and more likely that the election fraud is heading to the Supreme Court, 17 states have joined Texas stating what happened in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin is unconstitutional which of course is correct. All Supreme Court judges claim to honor the Constitution so there should be only one outcome. Klaus Schwab's deplorable Great Reset may now not happen.

Expect a stay on the Electoral College process with a 4/5 week SC overview followed by a Trump second term. The Demons fell for the trap.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on December 10, 2020, 03:00:27 AM
Welcome back.Was wondering where you went to .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 10, 2020, 03:43:40 AM
Quote from: Seamus on December 10, 2020, 02:47:08 AM
Looks more and more likely that the election fraud is heading to the Supreme Court, 17 states have joined Texas stating what happened in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin is unconstitutional which of course is correct. All Supreme Court judges claim to honor the Constitution so there should be only one outcome. Klaus Schwab's deplorable Great Reset may now not happen.

Expect a stay on the Electoral College process with a 4/5 week SC overview followed by a Trump second term. The Demons fell for the trap.
;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 10, 2020, 06:38:22 AM
I think Seamus is smoking some of that stuff gmac was crying about the other day
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 12:07:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 10, 2020, 06:38:22 AM
I think Seamus is smoking some of that stuff gmac was crying about the other day
The most important thing to note abut Seamus is that he is desperate for a fascist coup to obliterate the democratic will of the people

That tells you everything about him

Seamus is the sort of chap who if he had been around in the 1930s and 1940s would have been an utterly fanatical follower of Hitler

The stuff that goes on inside that fun size brain of his is genuinely dangerous
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2020, 12:20:28 PM
Quote from: Seamus on December 10, 2020, 02:47:08 AM
Looks more and more likely that the election fraud is heading to the Supreme Court, 17 states have joined Texas stating what happened in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin is unconstitutional which of course is correct. All Supreme Court judges claim to honor the Constitution so there should be only one outcome. Klaus Schwab's deplorable Great Reset may now not happen.

Expect a stay on the Electoral College process with a 4/5 week SC overview followed by a Trump second term. The Demons fell for the trap.

Uh-huh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2020, 12:24:06 PM
I wonder is Seamus one of those Trumpers the Arizona GOP is seeking who are willing to die for Trump's hissy fit?

https://mobile.twitter.com/AZGOP/status/1336186861891452929 (https://mobile.twitter.com/AZGOP/status/1336186861891452929)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
I see it's ok to report on hunter Biden now that the big guy aka pops has won the election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 10, 2020, 10:21:46 PM
Quote from: Seamus on December 10, 2020, 02:47:08 AM
Looks more and more likely that the election fraud is heading to the Supreme Court, 17 states have joined Texas stating what happened in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin is unconstitutional which of course is correct. All Supreme Court judges claim to honor the Constitution so there should be only one outcome. Klaus Schwab's deplorable Great Reset may now not happen.

Expect a stay on the Electoral College process with a 4/5 week SC overview followed by a Trump second term. The Demons fell for the trap.

Cool story bro
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
I see it's ok to report on hunter Biden now that the big guy aka pops has won the election.

Right, because no one was talking about it before.

It DID NOT come up in the presidential debates.

Face it, no one gave a shit. Just like no one gives a shit about Trump and HIS family lining their pockets on the public dime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2020, 10:45:41 PM
More than 100 GOP congressional representatives have signed on to the Texas election "challenge".

Trump is taking names, and you can't be seen to not be kissing the feet of the Dear Leader.

Personality cult. There's no other way about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 11:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
I see it's ok to report on hunter Biden now that the big guy aka pops has won the election.

Right, because no one was talking about it before.

It DID NOT come up in the presidential debates.

Face it, no one gave a shit. Just like no one gives a shit about Trump and HIS family lining their pockets on the public dime.
what about joes 10% do you care about that ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2020, 12:13:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 11:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
I see it's ok to report on hunter Biden now that the big guy aka pops has won the election.

Right, because no one was talking about it before.

It DID NOT come up in the presidential debates.

Face it, no one gave a shit. Just like no one gives a shit about Trump and HIS family lining their pockets on the public dime.
what about joes 10% do you care about that ?

10% of what?

Do you care about the Trump corruption and self-dealing?

Yer man Purdue running in Georgia?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 11, 2020, 01:20:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2020, 12:13:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 11:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
I see it's ok to report on hunter Biden now that the big guy aka pops has won the election.

Right, because no one was talking about it before.

It DID NOT come up in the presidential debates.

Face it, no one gave a shit. Just like no one gives a shit about Trump and HIS family lining their pockets on the public dime.
what about joes 10% do you care about that ?

10% of what?

Do you care about the Trump corruption and self-dealing?

Yer man Purdue running in Georgia?
i think it's fair to say trump and his brand has took a huge hit since he became president
Biden got into  politics to get rich and has done so .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:57:52 AM
Since John Lennon was murdered 40 years ago, 1,436,000 people have been killed by guns in the US

Banning guns would be a really good idea
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 11, 2020, 02:16:05 AM
Ah, but if John Lennon had had a gun that night, then how many would it be?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:17:28 AM
This is f**king sickening

Quotehttps://twitter.com/ClintSmithIII/status/1337078570229882882

Brandon Bernard is scheduled to be executed tonight. The crime was 20 years ago. He was a teenager. He didn't pull the trigger.

The Trump administration is on track to execute 13 people before he leaves office. It would be more federal executions than the past 67 years combined.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 11, 2020, 02:16:05 AM
Ah, but if John Lennon had had a gun that night, then how many would it be?
Gun rights campaigners count every white gun murderer as two people, not non-white ones though
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2020, 02:46:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 11, 2020, 01:20:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2020, 12:13:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 11:41:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
I see it's ok to report on hunter Biden now that the big guy aka pops has won the election.

Right, because no one was talking about it before.

It DID NOT come up in the presidential debates.

Face it, no one gave a shit. Just like no one gives a shit about Trump and HIS family lining their pockets on the public dime.
what about joes 10% do you care about that ?

10% of what?

Do you care about the Trump corruption and self-dealing?

Yer man Purdue running in Georgia?
i think it's fair to say trump and his brand has took a huge hit since he became president
Biden got into  politics to get rich and has done so .

That must be why Trump has been fleecing the taxpayer left, right and centre, charging premium prices while he hosts all the government shit he can at his own properties.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2020, 02:51:41 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:57:52 AM
Since John Lennon was murdered 40 years ago, 1,436,000 people have been killed by guns in the US

Banning guns would be a really good idea

More than 3000 a day dying of COVID now. And it's only going up.

The new New Hampshire House Speaker, sworn in just last week, died of it today, just over a week or so after attending a GOP super spreader event.

Expect more sickness to come from Trump and Pompeo's large holiday parties.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 11, 2020, 05:11:51 AM
There could yet be an air strike ordered on Iran the day before Biden's inauguration. I wouldn't be surprised if the generals just flat out tell him to f*** off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2020, 12:47:59 AM
Quote from: Seamus on December 10, 2020, 02:47:08 AM
Looks more and more likely that the election fraud is heading to the Supreme Court, 17 states have joined Texas stating what happened in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin is unconstitutional which of course is correct. All Supreme Court judges claim to honor the Constitution so there should be only one outcome. Klaus Schwab's deplorable Great Reset may now not happen.

Expect a stay on the Electoral College process with a 4/5 week SC overview followed by a Trump second term. The Demons fell for the trap.

Ahem. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on December 12, 2020, 01:39:24 AM
You'd almost get the impression that the conservative judges want to be free from Trump and the oppressive imposition that there is a debt to be repayed to him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on December 12, 2020, 05:23:25 AM
Wont be long until there is mutiny in the grrat imposters ranks and the Trump admin comes falling down like a house of cards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on December 12, 2020, 08:24:25 AM
And so the split begins.
https://www.texasgop.org/chairman-allen-wests-response-to-scotus-decision/
Time to form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution. Secession anyone?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2020, 12:05:57 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 12, 2020, 08:24:25 AM
And so the split begins.
https://www.texasgop.org/chairman-allen-wests-response-to-scotus-decision/
Time to form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution. Secession anyone?

So that's where Allen West ended up. Hadn't heard of that gobshite in a while.

Personally, I think some kind of break-up might be seriously debated eventually. Not saying it will happen; the logistics and feasibility are mind blowing. But with the right wing heading, with the wind in their sails, further and further off into lunatic land, there is increasingly little common ground to be had. They've been an utter disgrace under Trump, and the display of dishonest, cynical servility on the part of their DC politicians the past month is nothing short of scandalous and should mark the end of the GOP. But it won't. These politicians know which side their bread is buttered on, and how their base, with the prodding of themselves and the right wing media, has become utterly detached from reality. They've created a monster which they're now slaves to. I don't know how it ends, but it doesn't end with Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on December 12, 2020, 01:20:14 PM
Trump is only a symptom, not the cause but he has been a lightning rod for "the base" and the GOP know it. It exposes those who want power for powers sake, those who will hitch their wagon to whomever delivers the votes.

Trump didn't drain the swamp but he has exposed the rot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 01:22:32 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 12, 2020, 01:20:14 PM
Trump is only a symptom, not the cause but he has been a lightning rod for "the base" and the GOP know it. It exposes those who want power for powers sake, those who will hitch their wagon to whomever delivers the votes.

Trump didn't drain the swamp but he has exposed the rot.
And he has spread the rot, in a massive way

Sunlight is not a disinfectant in this case
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on December 12, 2020, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2020, 12:05:57 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 12, 2020, 08:24:25 AM
And so the split begins.
https://www.texasgop.org/chairman-allen-wests-response-to-scotus-decision/
Time to form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution. Secession anyone?

So that's where Allen West ended up. Hadn't heard of that gobshite in a while.

Personally, I think some kind of break-up might be seriously debated eventually. Not saying it will happen; the logistics and feasibility are mind blowing. But with the right wing heading, with the wind in their sails, further and further off into lunatic land, there is increasingly little common ground to be had. They've been an utter disgrace under Trump, and the display of dishonest, cynical servility on the part of their DC politicians the past month is nothing short of scandalous and should mark the end of the GOP. But it won't. These politicians know which side their bread is buttered on, and how their base, with the prodding of themselves and the right wing media, has become utterly detached from reality. They've created a monster which they're now slaves to. I don't know how it ends, but it doesn't end with Trump.
The ironic aspect is that the states themselves set the rules for elections, any dispute is a matter for the governance and courts in each state and each State has total autonomy. Texas was attempting to interfere via the USA supreme court in the autonomy of 4 other states who have already declared their elections as 100% kosher.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2020, 09:34:42 PM
I'd forgotten about some of these people, but worth a read for the list of those who've destroyed their careers by selling their souls for Trump

https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/everyone-trump-touches-dies-the-list (https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/everyone-trump-touches-dies-the-list)

I'm kind of agree with the author on Sarah Huckabee Sanders. She absolutely made her name being a combative apologist for Trump, but she did seem, at least at times, to be keeping at least some level of dignity (talking relative here), at least enough that her career is not at an end.

Jeff Sessions and Giuliani though... ;D

And Manafort! :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 17, 2020, 07:02:21 PM
Today in Trumpistan:

Trump administration cuts $200 million in healthcare funds to California over abortions (https://abc7.com/donald-trump-california-abortion-healthcare-funding/8831456/)

Since California is a net contributor to the federal government, this is basically a smash and grab.

I wish he'd piss off back to the golf course and leave the American people alone. Better to have a president doing nothing than him actively enacting his scorched earth policy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 07:17:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2020, 09:34:42 PM
I'd forgotten about some of these people, but worth a read for the list of those who've destroyed their careers by selling their souls for Trump

https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/everyone-trump-touches-dies-the-list (https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/everyone-trump-touches-dies-the-list)

I'm kind of agree with the author on Sarah Huckabee Sanders. She absolutely made her name being a combative apologist for Trump, but she did seem, at least at times, to be keeping at least some level of dignity (talking relative here), at least enough that her career is not at an end.

Jeff Sessions and Giuliani though... ;D

And Manafort! :o
No she didn't

Manafort's life's work has been to advance the interests of tyrants

He ran "the Torturer's lobby" back in the 1980s with Roger Stone

The one enduring lesson of this regime should be that international organised crime is made up by the sort of people that populated the Trump regime

Robert Mueller knew this in 2011 when he gave a speech that contained the following

Then he did precisely nothing about it

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/speeches/the-evolving-organized-crime-threat

QuoteThey may be former members of nation-state governments, security services, or the military. These individuals know who and what to target, and how best to do it. They are capitalists and entrepreneurs. But they are also master criminals who move easily between the licit and illicit worlds. And in some cases, these organizations are as forward-leaning as Fortune 500 companies.

This is not "The Sopranos," with six guys sitting in a diner, shaking down a local business owner for $50 dollars a week. These criminal enterprises are making billions of dollars from human trafficking, health care fraud, computer intrusions, and copyright infringement. They are cornering the market on natural gas, oil, and precious metals, and selling to the highest bidder.

These crimes are not easily categorized. Nor can the damage, the dollar loss, or the ripple effects be easily calculated. It is much like a Venn diagram, where one crime intersects with another, in different jurisdictions, and with different groups.

How does this impact you? You may not recognize the source, but you will feel the effects. You might pay more for a gallon of gas. You might pay more for a luxury car from overseas. You will pay more for health care, mortgages, clothes, and food.   

Yet we are concerned with more than just the financial impact. These groups may infiltrate our businesses. They may provide logistical support to hostile foreign powers. They may try to manipulate those at the highest levels of government. Indeed, these so-called "iron triangles" of organized criminals, corrupt government officials, and business leaders pose a significant national security threat.

Trump, the Brexiteer zealots, Putin, Netanyahu and the Saudis are all described by the above
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on December 26, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
Who or what is behind that Nashville bomb?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on December 26, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 26, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
Who or what is behind that Nashville bomb?
Trump has not said anything about the bomb

So that should give us a strong clue as to what sort of people were behind it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 03, 2021, 07:46:50 PM
f**k this is some craic lads... literally no shame at all complete brass neck!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 03, 2021, 10:50:00 PM
Don't think there's a more pathetic figure in world politics than Ted Cruz

Himself and the other goons voting against Biden's win being being certified are nothing but servile fascist scum

Urrgghhh, gross

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 04, 2021, 01:17:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 03, 2021, 10:50:00 PM
Don't think there's a more pathetic figure in world politics than Ted Cruz

Himself and the other goons voting against Biden's win being being certified are nothing but servile fascist scum

Urrgghhh, gross

I agree Cruz is the worst I mean totally pathetic after the crying he did about Trumps lies during the Primaries to lick his hole for the past 4 years then. Just a weasel.

He thinks Trump's base will do him a turn in 4 years time but they won't take to him in the same way and he's totally lost the middle with his current antics if he tries to pivot. A horrible human being!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:05:15 AM
Cruz hasn't a shred of dignity or integrity about him.

After what Trump said about his wife and his father during the 2016 primaries, Trump should be persona non grata and very publicly so for him. Lindsay Graham isn't much better.

Men like Ben Sasse and Mitt Romney can practice and promote their conservative politics without debasing themselves at the feet of the orange f**k in the hopes of staying in the good graces of the repugnant, bigoted GOP base. I may disagree vehemently with much of what they stand for, but at least I can respect them.

Cruz, Graham, Ron Johnson and the like are odious, pathetic frauds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:10:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 03, 2021, 07:46:50 PM
f**k this is some craic lads... literally no shame at all complete brass neck!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html

Career ending stuff which would dominate the headlines for weeks for any other politician.

Trump... another day, another story of corruption/abuse of power/bigotry/incompetence/lying etc., etc.

Someone is going to put a list together in a couple of weeks once Trump is out and we'll see again all the malfeasance we'd forgotten about given the relentless cycle of new stuff, each more outrageous than the last, every week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 04, 2021, 02:33:38 AM
Yeah, but what about Hilary's e-mails?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 04, 2021, 03:29:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:10:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 03, 2021, 07:46:50 PM
f**k this is some craic lads... literally no shame at all complete brass neck!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html

Career ending stuff which would dominate the headlines for weeks for any other politician.

Trump... another day, another story of corruption/abuse of power/bigotry/incompetence/lying etc., etc.

Someone is going to put a list together in a couple of weeks once Trump is out and we'll see again all the malfeasance we'd forgotten about given the relentless cycle of new stuff, each more outrageous than the last, every week.

Saw something the other day about the time Trump wanted to buy Greenland... That was less than a year and a half ago!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 04, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 04, 2021, 03:29:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:10:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 03, 2021, 07:46:50 PM
f**k this is some craic lads... literally no shame at all complete brass neck!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html

Career ending stuff which would dominate the headlines for weeks for any other politician.

Trump... another day, another story of corruption/abuse of power/bigotry/incompetence/lying etc., etc.

Someone is going to put a list together in a couple of weeks once Trump is out and we'll see again all the malfeasance we'd forgotten about given the relentless cycle of new stuff, each more outrageous than the last, every week.

Saw something the other day about the time Trump wanted to buy Greenland... That was less than a year and a half ago!!
I wouldn't take everything Trump says as a serious statement, e.g. purchase Greenland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2021, 01:33:02 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 04, 2021, 03:29:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:10:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 03, 2021, 07:46:50 PM
f**k this is some craic lads... literally no shame at all complete brass neck!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html

Career ending stuff which would dominate the headlines for weeks for any other politician.

Trump... another day, another story of corruption/abuse of power/bigotry/incompetence/lying etc., etc.

Someone is going to put a list together in a couple of weeks once Trump is out and we'll see again all the malfeasance we'd forgotten about given the relentless cycle of new stuff, each more outrageous than the last, every week.

Saw something the other day about the time Trump wanted to buy Greenland... That was less than a year and a half ago!!
I wouldn't take everything Trump says as a serious statement, e.g. purchase Greenland.

Depends what "serious" means when it comes to Trump.

I'd be fairly sure he saw some line about Greenland's mineral wealth in a report for his upcoming Danish trip and thought "f**k, why not offer to buy it?" without any further analysis or consideration.

Then, just as rashly, he cancelled the Danish trip when the Danish PM laughed at his proposal.

All in all, it probably amounted to 15 minutes out of Trump's stream of insanity week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 04, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 04, 2021, 03:29:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:10:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 03, 2021, 07:46:50 PM
f**k this is some craic lads... literally no shame at all complete brass neck!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html

Career ending stuff which would dominate the headlines for weeks for any other politician.

Trump... another day, another story of corruption/abuse of power/bigotry/incompetence/lying etc., etc.

Someone is going to put a list together in a couple of weeks once Trump is out and we'll see again all the malfeasance we'd forgotten about given the relentless cycle of new stuff, each more outrageous than the last, every week.

Saw something the other day about the time Trump wanted to buy Greenland... That was less than a year and a half ago!!
I wouldn't take everything Trump says as a serious statement, e.g. purchase Greenland.

Amen (and Awomen) to that

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/congress-prayer-cleaver-amen-awoman-b1781843.html%3famp






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 04, 2021, 02:52:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:05:15 AM
Cruz hasn't a shred of dignity or integrity about him.

After what Trump said about his wife and his father during the 2016 primaries, Trump should be persona non grata and very publicly so for him. Lindsay Graham isn't much better.

Men like Ben Sasse and Mitt Romney can practice and promote their conservative politics without debasing themselves at the feet of the orange f**k in the hopes of staying in the good graces of the repugnant, bigoted GOP base. I may disagree vehemently with much of what they stand for, but at least I can respect them.

Cruz, Graham, Ron Johnson and the like are odious, pathetic frauds.
There is a method to Cruz, he hasn't debased himself for no reason.  Not unlike George Wallace who first stood for election as a liberal, a de-segregationist and got walloped 9-1 in the primaries by an out and out disgusting racist Democrat bigot. George did an about turn, the whole 360 degrees, got elected and became the peerless image of segregation, Jim Crow and all that. Considering Trump is a crude self absorbed  buffoon, a chronic liar and an obnoxious racist to boot, the world's most failed wannabe despot etc, but still got 70m + votes peddling fake populism. Cruz sees that base and is much smarter than Trump. He won't  turn off  potential voters with his constant stupid tweets or his bigotry. And considering the Biden era is aiming to rehash the Obama era of smart condescending elitism, silicon valley capitalism, who is  going to represent the crude crony capitalism of the  likes of the Koch brothers, the crony monopoly capitalist elite who want de -regulation and a rape the environment of natural resources.
I think Trump's time has already gone, he's an embarrassment  and a new Trump in the form of someone like the slick Cruz will replace him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2021, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2021, 02:52:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:05:15 AM
Cruz hasn't a shred of dignity or integrity about him.

After what Trump said about his wife and his father during the 2016 primaries, Trump should be persona non grata and very publicly so for him. Lindsay Graham isn't much better.

Men like Ben Sasse and Mitt Romney can practice and promote their conservative politics without debasing themselves at the feet of the orange f**k in the hopes of staying in the good graces of the repugnant, bigoted GOP base. I may disagree vehemently with much of what they stand for, but at least I can respect them.

Cruz, Graham, Ron Johnson and the like are odious, pathetic frauds.
There is a method to Cruz, he hasn't debased himself for no reason.  Not unlike George Wallace who first stood for election as a liberal, a de-segregationist and got walloped 9-1 in the primaries by an out and out disgusting racist Democrat bigot. George did an about turn, the whole 360 degrees, got elected and became the peerless image of segregation, Jim Crow and all that. Considering Trump is a crude self absorbed  buffoon, a chronic liar and an obnoxious racist to boot, the world's most failed wannabe despot etc, but still got 70m + votes peddling fake populism. Cruz sees that base and is much smarter than Trump. He won't  turn off  potential voters with his constant stupid tweets or his bigotry. And considering the Biden era is aiming to rehash the Obama era of smart condescending elitism, silicon valley capitalism, who is  going to represent the crude crony capitalism of the  likes of the Koch brothers, the crony monopoly capitalist elite who want de -regulation and a rape the environment of natural resources.
I think Trump's time has already gone, he's an embarrassment  and a new Trump in the form of someone like the slick Cruz will replace him.

You may be correct, but was Trump's in-your-face embrace of racism, bigotry, scapegoats and conspiracy theories not a huge part of his attraction for the GOP base? The next "Trump" may be smarter and more subtle, but will he or she then elicit the same levels of devotion and loyalty? The GOP is now the Trump Personality Cult. They're even electing QAnon representatives. Trump is going down as one of the worst presidents in history, but one thing he is not lacking in is charisma and an elite grasp of the use and power of PR.

On the other hand, he was the logical outcome of the GOP's decades-long embrace of white christian grievance politics, and that is not going away. There may be those on the right who just couldn't stomach Trump personally this time out, but who are corporate, nothing-absolutely nothing-must-stand-in-the-way-of-business-profits types, happy to have an empowering coalition with the lunatic christian right and racist groups, who will come back next time out, even for a snake like Cruz.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 04, 2021, 03:30:17 PM
Cruz doesn't have the same ... I was going to say charisma but I think you know what I mean.

He's playing a role whereas Trump seems to be genuine in the nonsense he spouts which is why so many love him. I can't see Americans getting as enthused about Cruz as they did about Trump. He's not going to go quietly either the way you hardly hear of Clinton or Bush I can see Trump sticking his neb into everything after he's gone!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 04, 2021, 08:16:53 PM
Whether Cruz is up to the task charisma wise  is another (important) matter but I have little doubt that's his ambition and the motivation for his about turn.  It would be no contest if it was Cruz V the dullards that are Trump's offspring. 
I have an inkling that the next Dem candidate will have to be more populist, like Bernie  but not Bernie.

I don't know about the true value of Trump's overt bigotry, racism, conspiracy theories with the majority of the voters. A subtler expression of the same could get similar results.
In his rallies pre 2016 Trump focused on other stuff, the Trade deals, the  bad Trade deals etc, the elite, and claimed the fake news wouldn't report it, and he was right, his standing grew, the 'fake' media focused on dissing his personality and ignored the platform.
I was curious why Trump voters were not concerned at all about the racist element of his dialogue, if it was any other person in a responsible profession they would be sacked with immediate effect. How come Trump voters  tolerated Trump's racism or did not put any value on it?  I then read up quite a bit on racism post civil war from the perspective of racists, segregationist, Jim crow etc  and not from my usual entry point-  from the perspective of civil rights activism.
I had not realised the extent of racism,  the residues still ingrained  even in middle income white America.
That most always before the 1970s, they put the issue of  white superiority on the platform ahead of  common social issue experienced by both black and poor whites.

The economist Adam Posen on one of Dave McWilliams podcasts (just after the 2020 US pres election) claimed that idea of the economic displaced white who were  left behind on the scrapheap, who now supported Trump was a myth not supported by facts. That the loss of job income was more a perception than a reality. He claimed that the issue  was more  the loss of placement, the displacement from a safe place in society, either through a resentment towards the advance of women's stature or a resentment at the advance in status of people who look different than them, people who they use to look down upon,though  not always overtly.
That's where Trumps bigoted message  hit home, but that same bigot button can be pressed with more subtlety, a politician doesn't need to crudely badmouth Mexicans, badmouth women, blame Muslims.

Add in the factor that trump is an absolutely useless politician, useless with managing the Covid virus. When the BLM  shit hit the fan, Trump could have gone to town on Biden's history of support for tough on crime policy which was a major cause of current ills . But AFAIR Trump just mumbled it out in passing in one of the debates. He had no idea to measure the value of such a weapon an attack or even how to carry it out. Trump was beaten by a colorless  Biden , literally past the last legs stage of physical and mental prowess.
As for Trump, he has to face the relentless march of Father Time, also the chronic narcissism is stabbing away at what passes for his mental health, making him more unstable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 05, 2021, 08:53:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2021, 08:16:53 PM
Whether Cruz is up to the task charisma wise  is another (important) matter but I have little doubt that's his ambition and the motivation for his about turn.  It would be no contest if it was Cruz V the dullards that are Trump's offspring. 
I have an inkling that the next Dem candidate will have to be more populist, like Bernie  but not Bernie.

I don't know about the true value of Trump's overt bigotry, racism, conspiracy theories with the majority of the voters. A subtler expression of the same could get similar results.
In his rallies pre 2016 Trump focused on other stuff, the Trade deals, the  bad Trade deals etc, the elite, and claimed the fake news wouldn't report it, and he was right, his standing grew, the 'fake' media focused on dissing his personality and ignored the platform.
I was curious why Trump voters were not concerned at all about the racist element of his dialogue, if it was any other person in a responsible profession they would be sacked with immediate effect. How come Trump voters  tolerated Trump's racism or did not put any value on it?  I then read up quite a bit on racism post civil war from the perspective of racists, segregationist, Jim crow etc  and not from my usual entry point-  from the perspective of civil rights activism.
I had not realised the extent of racism,  the residues still ingrained  even in middle income white America.
That most always before the 1970s, they put the issue of  white superiority on the platform ahead of  common social issue experienced by both black and poor whites.

The economist Adam Posen on one of Dave McWilliams podcasts (just after the 2020 US pres election) claimed that idea of the economic displaced white who were  left behind on the scrapheap, who now supported Trump was a myth not supported by facts. That the loss of job income was more a perception than a reality. He claimed that the issue  was more  the loss of placement, the displacement from a safe place in society, either through a resentment towards the advance of women's stature or a resentment at the advance in status of people who look different than them, people who they use to look down upon,though  not always overtly.
That's where Trumps bigoted message  hit home, but that same bigot button can be pressed with more subtlety, a politician doesn't need to crudely badmouth Mexicans, badmouth women, blame Muslims.

Add in the factor that trump is an absolutely useless politician, useless with managing the Covid virus. When the BLM  shit hit the fan, Trump could have gone to town on Biden's history of support for tough on crime policy which was a major cause of current ills . But AFAIR Trump just mumbled it out in passing in one of the debates. He had no idea to measure the value of such a weapon an attack or even how to carry it out. Trump was beaten by a colorless  Biden , literally past the last legs stage of physical and mental prowess.
As for Trump, he has to face the relentless march of Father Time, also the chronic narcissism is stabbing away at what passes for his mental health, making him more unstable.

Is that not the same type of dog whistle as used by Ian Snr Paisley and the DUP for decades. You demonise your foe to the point they're sub human and whilst you're life may be shit, it's better than theirs and there's a comfort in that it seems.
All your woes can be heaped on refugees, those of a different skin colour, pray to a different God when all the time it's the ruling elite manipulating you.
Trump just is more open and less subtle about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2021, 12:49:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2021, 08:16:53 PM
Whether Cruz is up to the task charisma wise  is another (important) matter but I have little doubt that's his ambition and the motivation for his about turn.  It would be no contest if it was Cruz V the dullards that are Trump's offspring. 
I have an inkling that the next Dem candidate will have to be more populist, like Bernie  but not Bernie.

I don't know about the true value of Trump's overt bigotry, racism, conspiracy theories with the majority of the voters. A subtler expression of the same could get similar results.
In his rallies pre 2016 Trump focused on other stuff, the Trade deals, the  bad Trade deals etc, the elite, and claimed the fake news wouldn't report it, and he was right, his standing grew, the 'fake' media focused on dissing his personality and ignored the platform.
I was curious why Trump voters were not concerned at all about the racist element of his dialogue, if it was any other person in a responsible profession they would be sacked with immediate effect. How come Trump voters  tolerated Trump's racism or did not put any value on it?  I then read up quite a bit on racism post civil war from the perspective of racists, segregationist, Jim crow etc  and not from my usual entry point-  from the perspective of civil rights activism.
I had not realised the extent of racism,  the residues still ingrained  even in middle income white America.
That most always before the 1970s, they put the issue of  white superiority on the platform ahead of  common social issue experienced by both black and poor whites.

The economist Adam Posen on one of Dave McWilliams podcasts (just after the 2020 US pres election) claimed that idea of the economic displaced white who were  left behind on the scrapheap, who now supported Trump was a myth not supported by facts. That the loss of job income was more a perception than a reality. He claimed that the issue  was more  the loss of placement, the displacement from a safe place in society, either through a resentment towards the advance of women's stature or a resentment at the advance in status of people who look different than them, people who they use to look down upon,though  not always overtly.
That's where Trumps bigoted message  hit home, but that same bigot button can be pressed with more subtlety, a politician doesn't need to crudely badmouth Mexicans, badmouth women, blame Muslims.

Add in the factor that trump is an absolutely useless politician, useless with managing the Covid virus. When the BLM  shit hit the fan, Trump could have gone to town on Biden's history of support for tough on crime policy which was a major cause of current ills . But AFAIR Trump just mumbled it out in passing in one of the debates. He had no idea to measure the value of such a weapon an attack or even how to carry it out. Trump was beaten by a colorless  Biden , literally past the last legs stage of physical and mental prowess.
As for Trump, he has to face the relentless march of Father Time, also the chronic narcissism is stabbing away at what passes for his mental health, making him more unstable.

Whatever about Biden's history, Trump was in no position whatsoever to gain any advantage over Biden on the BLM issue. The GOP as a whole has been using race as a wedge issue for 50 years. Trump seized upon this racial hostility and resentment as part of his political rise, beginning with Obama's birth cert, and continuing on through his numerous racial controversies as his campaign and administration progressed. Whether or not he has personal racist convictions, or he is more concerned with keeping that section of the GOP base supporting him and his narcissistic need for validation, he has repeatedly refused to condemn racist behaviour and rhetoric. Even a disavowal of David Duke had to be dragged out of him over the course of days.

The George Floyd murder was a lay-up for any president. The right thing to say to show mature leadership was not hard to figure out. Instead, all he could see was the bigotry of his base and the possibility of violence becoming an election wedge issue, and so he fanned the flames and made things worse.

I agree Biden's best days are behind him, but he played this election very smartly. He allowed Trump to make it all about him, and with COVID and George Floyd showing him flailing, inflaming and constantly lying, all Biden had to do was keep his head down, sound conciliatory and normal, and let it play out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 03:36:36 PM
Hopefully Georgia has plenty more voters like this guy, quite refreshing to hear some sanity

https://twitter.com/CNNnewsroom/status/1346471740323504129
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 01:41:13 AM
Sounds like a lack of Trump on the ballot is causing Republicans some problems in GA... hopefully it stays that way!!

Tomorrow is going to be interesting... I can't see Pence trying anything but the thousands in D.C. are there for some kind of reason!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 06, 2021, 01:45:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 03:36:36 PM
Hopefully Georgia has plenty more voters like this guy, quite refreshing to hear some sanity

https://twitter.com/CNNnewsroom/status/1346471740323504129

Very easy see through this lying commie. He believes in science fiction and can't wait to see all Creepy Joe's enslavement policies implemented.  This guy was never a Republican. Oh then again he may have had a epiphany since Nov 3rd and woke up a commie. CNN, as fake as it gets.

In either case America and the world loses, two commies against two RINOs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 01:47:00 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 06, 2021, 01:45:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 03:36:36 PM
Hopefully Georgia has plenty more voters like this guy, quite refreshing to hear some sanity

https://twitter.com/CNNnewsroom/status/1346471740323504129

Very easy see through this lying commie. He believes in science fiction and can't wait to see all Creepy Joe's enslavement policies implemented.  This guy was never a Republican. Oh then again he may have had a epiphany since Nov 3rd and woke up a commie. CNN, as fake as it gets.

In either case America and the world loses, two commies against two RINOs.

;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 02:08:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 01:41:13 AM
Sounds like a lack of Trump on the ballot is causing Republicans some problems in GA... hopefully it stays that way!!

Tomorrow is going to be interesting... I can't see Pence trying anything but the thousands in D.C. are there for some kind of reason!
Things are looking cautiously optimistic for both races

Republicans are relying on increased votes in northern counties, but they seem to be underperforming Trump in most other places

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 02:36:07 AM
This is great

Trump could end up destroying the Republican party

Democrats look set to win both races
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 02:41:41 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 02:36:07 AM
This is great

Trump could end up destroying the Republican party

Democrats look set to win both races

Few people in the know calling Warnock. Ossoff race a good bit closer!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 02:49:25 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 02:41:41 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 02:36:07 AM
This is great

Trump could end up destroying the Republican party

Democrats look set to win both races

Few people in the know calling Warnock. Ossoff race a good bit closer!
Closer but I think he has enough in hand
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2021, 03:16:13 AM
Yup. Looking good on both counts. Jesus, we might actually get some legislation passed for the first time in forever. Moscow Mitch is toast.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 03:26:47 AM
Yeah, but if the Dems win both, brace yourself for the voter fraud meltdown.

Because if the Dems win, it HAS to be cheating!

Could add petrol to tomorrow's presidential certification fire.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 06, 2021, 03:41:42 AM
I can live with that . The greater danger is blue dog Democrats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 04:23:44 AM
Massive vote dump just in from DeKalb county

Ossoff's 115k deficit cut to 2,140

Warnock now well over the top

94% statewide in

Ossoff should pull ahead on that

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 06, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
Warnock home and dry. Ossoff now in front and looking good. Sane government is on the way. Hallelujah
The grim reaper and trumpty dumpty on their way out the gate. "Praise the Lord"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 11:47:52 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 06, 2021, 01:45:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 03:36:36 PM
Hopefully Georgia has plenty more voters like this guy, quite refreshing to hear some sanity

https://twitter.com/CNNnewsroom/status/1346471740323504129

Very easy see through this lying commie. He believes in science fiction and can't wait to see all Creepy Joe's enslavement policies implemented.  This guy was never a Republican. Oh then again he may have had a epiphany since Nov 3rd and woke up a commie. CNN, as fake as it gets.

In either case America and the world loses, two commies against two RINOs.
Hopefully with their two new communist senators from Georgia, America will now get full automated luxury communism like Denmark, Finland and Holland

Certainly needs it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 12:16:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 06, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
Warnock home and dry. Ossoff now in front and looking good. Sane government is on the way. Hallelujah
The grim reaper and trumpty dumpty on their way out the gate. "Praise the Lord"

Amen/Awomen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on January 06, 2021, 12:55:20 PM
Interesting to see what this does to the value of Loeffler's house...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 12:56:41 PM
Must be an interesting morning in the White House! Everyone steering clear of the Dear Leader, who (along with the spineless sycophants) has lost first the House, then the White House, and, it looks likely, the Senate. Majority Leader Senator Charles Schumer of New York will have a special resonance as he surveys the wreckage of his dreams of strongmanhood. ;D

Poor Mike Pence must be steeling himself as he kisses Mother and heads out the door. He is probably going to be on the receiving end of some Trump rage tweets before dinner time. I can imagine he'll be sending a few "go f**k yourself" glances towards the likes of Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley for planting him in this no-win mess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 02:18:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 12:16:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 06, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
Warnock home and dry. Ossoff now in front and looking good. Sane government is on the way. Hallelujah
The grim reaper and trumpty dumpty on their way out the gate. "Praise the Lord"

Amen/Awomen

So much winning!!

In fairness to Biden he's played this well since he's been in office. No fuss or giving out all the time about what Trump is doing just letting Trump set the GOP house on fire and watching them burn themselves down.

The final piece of the jigsaw appears to be what Pence will do today but it sounds like the options are extremely limited. How do the GOP turn this around? Especially when Trump has such a following and he's not going anywhere anytime soon? Will their be a split in the party?

America's going to be an interesting place for a while longer it seems!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 02:29:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 02:18:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 12:16:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 06, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
Warnock home and dry. Ossoff now in front and looking good. Sane government is on the way. Hallelujah
The grim reaper and trumpty dumpty on their way out the gate. "Praise the Lord"

Amen/Awomen

So much winning!!

In fairness to Biden he's played this well since he's been in office. No fuss or giving out all the time about what Trump is doing just letting Trump set the GOP house on fire and watching them burn themselves down.

The final piece of the jigsaw appears to be what Pence will do today but it sounds like the options are extremely limited. How do the GOP turn this around? Especially when Trump has such a following and he's not going anywhere anytime soon? Will their be a split in the party?

America's going to be an interesting place for a while longer it seems!

Republicans got everything they deserved

The absolute level of stupidity and self awareness is mind boggling

Joe (ie Obama) played this like a pro....just let's the Republicans dig themselves into hole after hole and say nothing

Anyway, living here for close to thirty years this is just a continuation of the pattern

The Democrats are going to go way too far left and will get wiped out in two years time (assuming the Republicans actually can get their heads out of their holes).

This victory in GA could change the direction of the country for a generation. Elections have consequences and by God did Stacey Abrams show them how it's done. Trump actually had an opportunity to do a lot of good and pi$$ed it away with his absolute incompetence and ignorance

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2021, 02:45:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 12:16:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 06, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
Warnock home and dry. Ossoff now in front and looking good. Sane government is on the way. Hallelujah
The grim reaper and trumpty dumpty on their way out the gate. "Praise the Lord"

Amen/Awomen

Didn't get enough bites the first time - you tried again?

Imagine actually giving a f**k about that lolololololololololololololololol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 06, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
So what's next for Socialist /Communist America. Mock trials? Expulsion of opponents? Labour camps? Exciting times ahead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2021, 02:45:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 12:16:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 06, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
Warnock home and dry. Ossoff now in front and looking good. Sane government is on the way. Hallelujah
The grim reaper and trumpty dumpty on their way out the gate. "Praise the Lord"

Amen/Awomen

Didn't get enough bites the first time - you tried again?

Imagine actually giving a f**k about that lolololololololololololololololol

That's my new handle-it's taking over from "believe what you want"

I actually don't give a fvck about it as it has zero impact on me. I'm Simply pointing out the flat out absurdity of the identity politics the Democrats are engaging in. Someone in elected office actually had to put effort into coming up with that. It's right up there with providing abortions to people who self identify as female but who are biologically male

Anyway-good luck to everyone for the next 4 years. Fasten your seatbelts......it's going to get crazy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 03:03:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 02:18:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 12:16:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 06, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
Warnock home and dry. Ossoff now in front and looking good. Sane government is on the way. Hallelujah
The grim reaper and trumpty dumpty on their way out the gate. "Praise the Lord"

Amen/Awomen

So much winning!!

In fairness to Biden he's played this well since he's been in office. No fuss or giving out all the time about what Trump is doing just letting Trump set the GOP house on fire and watching them burn themselves down.

The final piece of the jigsaw appears to be what Pence will do today but it sounds like the options are extremely limited. How do the GOP turn this around? Especially when Trump has such a following and he's not going anywhere anytime soon? Will their be a split in the party?

America's going to be an interesting place for a while longer it seems!

Biden's restraint has been admirable, but also extremely sensible.

The hard work is ahead, whether or not Ossoff is confirmed, but he has played a blinder against Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2021, 03:04:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2021, 02:45:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 12:16:20 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 06, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
Warnock home and dry. Ossoff now in front and looking good. Sane government is on the way. Hallelujah
The grim reaper and trumpty dumpty on their way out the gate. "Praise the Lord"

Amen/Awomen

Didn't get enough bites the first time - you tried again?

Imagine actually giving a f**k about that lolololololololololololololololol

That's my new handle-it's taking over from "believe what you want"

I actually don't give a fvck about it as it has zero impact on me. I'm Simply pointing out the flat out absurdity of the identity politics the Democrats are engaging in. Someone in elected office actually had to put effort into coming up with that. It's right up there with providing abortions to people who self identify as female but who are biologically male

Anyway-good luck to everyone for the next 4 years. Fasten your seatbelts......it's going to get crazy

Sure sounds like it. 

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d9/ce/e8/d9cee87228f811433f7c6a9cc8d38baf.gif)

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/b6d3ae64fd45cf34ee2656c3a9d3a704/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 06, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 03:00:42 PM
It's right up there with providing abortions to people who self identify as female but who are biologically male

Something that has never actually happened. There seems to be something in the right wing psyche that drives them to make up stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 04:50:30 PM
How long until we get the "Donald Trump Jnr has checked into a rehabilitation facility".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 05:42:16 PM
Trump calling Democratic voters "stupid people"

What was that about "sneering" again?

The American Nazi Party are worst sneerers in the world
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 05:46:20 PM
Quote from: dec on January 06, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 03:00:42 PM
It's right up there with providing abortions to people who self identify as female but who are biologically male

Something that has never actually happened. There seems to be something in the right wing psyche that drives them to make up stuff.
People who are wrong about everything and have been wrong about everything for their entire lives have to lie about everything

To do hateful things in politics, you have to lie about everything


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: APM on January 06, 2021, 05:48:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 02:29:11 PM

Republicans got everything they deserved

The absolute level of stupidity and self awareness is mind boggling

Joe (ie Obama) played this like a pro....just let's the Republicans dig themselves into hole after hole and say nothing

Anyway, living here for close to thirty years this is just a continuation of the pattern

The Democrats are going to go way too far left and will get wiped out in two years time (assuming the Republicans actually can get their heads out of their holes).

This victory in GA could change the direction of the country for a generation. Elections have consequences and by God did Stacey Abrams show them how it's done. Trump actually had an opportunity to do a lot of good and pi$$ed it away with his absolute incompetence and ignorance

People in America know what left wing is. Anything that would be considered in the centre or even moderately to right of centre in Western Europe would be considered left.  One thing that the US body politic and the right wing media have managed to do, is move the centre point of reference or the norm, away from the middle and over to the right, meanwhile, persuading everyone that anyone to the left of that point, is really a stark raving communist. 

This is also happening in GB, and Corbyn didn't help matters.  Both himself and Ed Miliband had strong left wing support and in the case of Corbyn a strong leftie reputation.  The result was that when they presented even sensible moderate left of centre policies, they were discredited. Partly because of the leadership themselves and their reputations, and sometimes because these policies were in a bucket with a few strongly leftwing policies and everything was tarred with one brush.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 05:49:19 PM
This is unhinged nonsense... good TV though may enjoy it now as it won't be covered as much going forward I wouldn't think!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 05:58:50 PM
Quote from: APM on January 06, 2021, 05:48:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 02:29:11 PM

Republicans got everything they deserved

The absolute level of stupidity and self awareness is mind boggling

Joe (ie Obama) played this like a pro....just let's the Republicans dig themselves into hole after hole and say nothing

Anyway, living here for close to thirty years this is just a continuation of the pattern

The Democrats are going to go way too far left and will get wiped out in two years time (assuming the Republicans actually can get their heads out of their holes).

This victory in GA could change the direction of the country for a generation. Elections have consequences and by God did Stacey Abrams show them how it's done. Trump actually had an opportunity to do a lot of good and pi$$ed it away with his absolute incompetence and ignorance

People in America know what left wing is. Anything that would be considered in the centre or even moderately to right of centre in Western Europe would be considered left.  One thing that the US body politic and the right wing media have managed to do, is move the centre point of reference or the norm, away from the middle and over to the right, meanwhile, persuading everyone that anyone to the left of that point, is really a stark raving communist. 

This is also happening in GB, and Corbyn didn't help matters.  Both himself and Ed Miliband had strong left wing support and in the case of Corbyn a strong leftie reputation.  The result was that when they presented even sensible moderate left of centre policies, they were discredited. Partly because of the leadership themselves and their reputations, and sometimes because these policies were in a bucket with a few strongly leftwing policies and everything was tarred with one brush.
Two words: Murdoch media

The Nazis didn't have as effective a propaganda machine
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on January 06, 2021, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 12:56:41 PM
Must be an interesting morning in the White House! Everyone steering clear of the Dear Leader, who (along with the spineless sycophants) has lost first the House, then the White House, and, it looks likely, the Senate. Majority Leader Senator Charles Schumer of New York will have a special resonance as he surveys the wreckage of his dreams of strongmanhood. ;D

Poor Mike Pence must be steeling himself as he kisses Mother and heads out the door. He is probably going to be on the receiving end of some Trump rage tweets before dinner time. I can imagine he'll be sending a few "go f**k yourself" glances towards the likes of Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley for planting him in this no-win mess.

Before you put Chucky on a pedestal, read the following from the last time Dems controlled everything.
Champion of the people  ::) ::),  btw article was in the NYT.
What a FFIINN Hypocrite

google .nytimes.com/2007/07/30/washington/schumer carried interest


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 06:27:00 PM
https://twitter.com/noahcrothman/status/1346883735757664263?s=21

"Law and Order"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 06:28:47 PM
Nazis at work

https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1346881968819105792

BREAKING: Trump supporters have breached the Capitol building, tearing down 4 layers of security fencing and are attempting to occupy the building — fighting federal police who are overrun

This is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. Thousands, police can't stop them

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2021, 06:28:55 PM
Trump supporters storming the barricades in Washington now. Sore losers trying to stage a coup.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2021, 06:30:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 06:28:47 PM
Nazis at work

https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1346881968819105792

BREAKING: Trump supporters have breached the Capitol building, tearing down 4 layers of security fencing and are attempting to occupy the building — fighting federal police who are overrun

This is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. Thousands, police can't stop them

OMG look at the comments. The deluded sickos are saying it's all an antifa false flag operation.

Conservatives have lost their goddamn minds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 06:54:24 PM
Quote from: joemamas on January 06, 2021, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 12:56:41 PM
Must be an interesting morning in the White House! Everyone steering clear of the Dear Leader, who (along with the spineless sycophants) has lost first the House, then the White House, and, it looks likely, the Senate. Majority Leader Senator Charles Schumer of New York will have a special resonance as he surveys the wreckage of his dreams of strongmanhood. ;D

Poor Mike Pence must be steeling himself as he kisses Mother and heads out the door. He is probably going to be on the receiving end of some Trump rage tweets before dinner time. I can imagine he'll be sending a few "go f**k yourself" glances towards the likes of Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley for planting him in this no-win mess.

Before you put Chucky on a pedestal, read the following from the last time Dems controlled everything.
Champion of the people  ::) ::),  btw article was in the NYT.
What a FFIINN Hypocrite

google .nytimes.com/2007/07/30/washington/schumer carried interest

I didn't make any comment on Schumer personally.

I was mocking Trump.

Your link doesn't work.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 06, 2021, 06:55:32 PM
This is simultaneously both must-see and incredibly boring TV.

Ted Cruz is some f**king wally.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 06:56:52 PM
Ted Cruz pontificating about the trust of "the people" in the electoral process after he has spent weeks aiding and abetting Trump's baseless claims and eroding that trust, all so he personally can benefit from the remnants of the MAGA hordes (which he, the slimy bastard, won't).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 07:16:33 PM
Ted Cruz is a pathetic fascist coward who bought into Trump's fascist world of make believe, all because he didn't have one tiny fragment of spine to stand up to Trump spreading grotesque lies about him and his family

He is not a man, he is a pathetic, snivelling, careerist, coward

Zero principle, zero morals, zero self respect

Yet Trump has less regard for Cruz than men have regard for the value of a used condom

The far right insult "cuck" has been proven entirely correct about Cruz, and indeed the entire Republican party

People like Ted Cruz are exactly how Nazi Germany happened

The most pathetic politician on earth, indeed given his wealth, power and platform, it's very difficult to imagine how there could be anybody, anywhere more pathetic than him

He's even more pathetic than Lindsay Graham, and that is something that is pretty much impossible to be

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 06, 2021, 07:31:01 PM
In further wonderful news, incoming Republican congresswoman for Illinois, Mary Miller, decided to quote Hitler and say he "was right about one thing" when talking about winning over the Jesus and minds of children.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 07:37:24 PM
Senate shut down after fascists invade

Every member of the American Nazi party is complicit in this abomination

You can only imagine the outcome if the invaders were black

I somehow doubt police would be so peaceful
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 06, 2021, 07:38:51 PM
The fascist scum showing their true colours in Washington I see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 07:47:18 PM
I have been right at every step of the way about what was happening in America and I don't mind telling people

https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/1346905489561579532

They're shooting into the chamber.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 07:49:31 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErEr28JWMAAlvLO?format=png&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 07:54:55 PM
Will this madness mark the end of Trump at the head of the GOP?

Have they a shred of dignity or conscience?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 07:56:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 07:54:55 PM
Will this madness mark the end of Trump at the head of the GOP?

Have they a shred of dignity or conscience?
It needs to mark the end of the Republican party

Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence enabled this

They deserve no credit, they are part of this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2021, 08:00:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 07:56:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 07:54:55 PM
Will this madness mark the end of Trump at the head of the GOP?

Have they a shred of dignity or conscience?
It needs to mark the end of the Republican party

Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence enabled this

They deserve no credit, they are part of this

It needs to, but I don't think it's gonna. Those Georgia runoffs were closer than they should have been. Violent extremists should not be getting nearly 50% of the vote, but they are. This is not over by a long way. We've got a two year window to fix the voting system, expand the supreme court, and rescue democracy while we still can.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Crete Boom on January 06, 2021, 08:06:09 PM
Republicans law and order party!
I suppose this is how you own the libs and it surely has to be somehow the problem of all these woke BLM people doesn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:08:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2021, 08:00:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 07:56:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 07:54:55 PM
Will this madness mark the end of Trump at the head of the GOP?

Have they a shred of dignity or conscience?
It needs to mark the end of the Republican party

Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence enabled this

They deserve no credit, they are part of this

It needs to, but I don't think it's gonna. Those Georgia runoffs were closer than they should have been. Violent extremists should not be getting nearly 50% of the vote, but they are. This is not over by a long way. We've got a two year window to fix the voting system, expand the supreme court, and rescue democracy while we still can.
[/quote
I know

America has a Nazi party on its hands
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:10:44 PM
https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1346902299466203145/photo/1

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErEof0AXYAkTU-w?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:11:26 PM
Rumours of somebody shot inside the Capitol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 06, 2021, 08:12:14 PM
The GOP need to get rid of Trumpism and fast. Whoever runs in 2024 should not even have a whiff of Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:16:19 PM
I have little doubt Trump planned this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 06, 2021, 08:17:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:11:26 PM
Rumours of somebody shot inside the Capitol
Photos on Twitter if someone covered in blood being wheeled out on a gurney and receiving chest compressions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Crete Boom on January 06, 2021, 08:20:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 06, 2021, 08:12:14 PM
The GOP need to get rid of Trumpism and fast. Whoever runs in 2024 should not even have a whiff of Trump.

They have created this with they way they haved acted since Bush v Gore in 2000. Trump might have thrown petrol on the fire but he is a symptom of the likes of Bush, Cheney, McConnell, Cruz, Gatez, Graham et all and centerist Dems and Clinton corporate Dems stood by and did nothing.
There is no way this is going away without a complete wipeout of Republicans especially at state and local level along with expanding the Sunpreme court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:38:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron

You guys are reaping what you sowed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 08:40:48 PM
Conservatives won't recover from this for a long time!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:43:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 08:40:48 PM
Conservatives won't recover from this for a long time!!
This is what they are and have always been

The Republican party is a white supremacist, fascist, McCarthyite party

Yet under Trump, it operates in cahoots with Russia

Trump is and always was a Manchurian Candidate who was installed to bring down America from the inside

Perhaps people will now accept the reality that has been staring them in the face since 2015

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 06, 2021, 08:43:34 PM
I wonder will they carry on with their objections to the election results once this is sorted?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:44:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 08:40:48 PM
Conservatives won't recover from this for a long time!!

They're done

There will be a split in the Conservative movement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron
More abuse from Sid.
Yet when anyone speaks out to him there's a whole crying match from him.
Hypocrite
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 06, 2021, 08:46:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:38:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron

You guys are reaping what you sowed
;D believe whatever you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: weareros on January 06, 2021, 08:52:27 PM
If the Republican party had any sense of proportion they would work with Democrats and strip Trump of the last days of his presidency. It would be some small measure.  He and a few of his followers are clearly insane in the head. The lack of security for what is supposed to be the most powerful nation on earth is shocking. Then again, if it was Blacks, they would not survive breaching the American senate floor without a bullet in the back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:52:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron
More abuse from Sid.
Yet when anyone speaks out to him there's a whole crying match from him.
Hypocrite
On the contrary, I welcome it

Especially from morons like you

Unlike bed wetting racist shits like you and whitey, I can give it and I can take it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:57:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:52:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron
More abuse from Sid.
Yet when anyone speaks out to him there's a whole crying match from him.
Hypocrite
On the contrary, I welcome it

Especially from morons like you

Unlike bed wetting racist shits like you and whitey, I can give it and I can take it
Except you can't.
You give it but you can't take it.
That's why there's a whole crying match from you claiming you're the recipient of abuse every time someone on here picks you and your arguments apart.
Pure hypocrisy and irony.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup

When was this attempted coup again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:57:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:52:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron
More abuse from Sid.
Yet when anyone speaks out to him there's a whole crying match from him.
Hypocrite
On the contrary, I welcome it

Especially from morons like you

Unlike bed wetting racist shits like you and whitey, I can give it and I can take it
Except you can't.
You give it but you can't take it.
That's why there's a whole crying match from you claiming you're the recipient of abuse every time someone on here picks you and your arguments apart.
Pure hypocrisy and irony.
You're a racist buffoon who spent a week spouting naked racism on a football thread a month ago

Little wonder you're in here kissing the ass of this forum's biggest racist, whitey

That's all that needs to be said about you

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup

When was this attempted coup again?

The fake impeachment was an attempted coup


From day one the Democrats attempted to deligitimize his election with the Russia Hoax. They actually convinced close to half the country that Trump had only won in 2016 because of Russia interference and therefore was an illegitimate president

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html%3foutputType=amp

Don't act all shocked now that Trumps supporters are returning the favor with interest

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 09:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:57:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:52:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron
More abuse from Sid.
Yet when anyone speaks out to him there's a whole crying match from him.
Hypocrite
On the contrary, I welcome it

Especially from morons like you

Unlike bed wetting racist shits like you and whitey, I can give it and I can take it
Except you can't.
You give it but you can't take it.
That's why there's a whole crying match from you claiming you're the recipient of abuse every time someone on here picks you and your arguments apart.
Pure hypocrisy and irony.
You're a racist buffoon who spent a week spouting naked racism on a football thread a month ago

Little wonder you're in here kissing the ass of this forum's biggest racist, whitey

That's all that needs to be said about you
I was calling out the fake outrage from the double standard snowflake brigade in relation to racism, which still stands, not that it has any relevance here but happy to correct you yet again.

I'm in here pointing out (again) your double standards and fake outrage snowflakery because you're abusing another poster, but you get the violins out when it's done to you and it's a whole crying match, just like when you were picked apart on the Nationalism Vs thread and resorted to the "boo hoo more personal abuse" that you spouted.
Dry your eyes you hypocrite. Learn to take it if you're going to give it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 09:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:57:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:52:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron
More abuse from Sid.
Yet when anyone speaks out to him there's a whole crying match from him.
Hypocrite
On the contrary, I welcome it

Especially from morons like you

Unlike bed wetting racist shits like you and whitey, I can give it and I can take it
Except you can't.
You give it but you can't take it.
That's why there's a whole crying match from you claiming you're the recipient of abuse every time someone on here picks you and your arguments apart.
Pure hypocrisy and irony.
You're a racist buffoon who spent a week spouting naked racism on a football thread a month ago

Little wonder you're in here kissing the ass of this forum's biggest racist, whitey

That's all that needs to be said about you
I was calling out the fake outrage from the double standard snowflake brigade in relation to racism, which still stands, not that it has any relevance here but happy to correct you yet again.

I'm in here pointing out (again) your double standards and fake outrage snowflakery because you're abusing another poster, but you get the violins out when it's done to you and it's a whole crying match, just like when you were picked apart on the Nationalism Vs thread and resorted to the "boo hoo more personal abuse" that you spouted.
Dry your eyes you hypocrite. Learn to take it if you're going to give it.
Looks like we have another Angelo/Seaney on our hands

One for the ignore button
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 06, 2021, 09:23:10 PM
Kid gloves so far from the police and the reserves called in are just ambulating around the concourse. The protestors have the right colour and are with just cause, I suppose.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 09:23:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup

When was this attempted coup again?

The fake impeachment was an attempted coup


From day one the Democrats attempted to deligitimize his election with the Russia Hoax. They actually convinced close to half the country that Trump had only won in 2016 because of Russia interference and therefore was an illegitimate president

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html%3foutputType=amp

Don't act all shocked now that Trumps supporters are returning the favor with interest
whitey is an open fascist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 09:26:06 PM
Shit lads we got the wrong end of the stick... it's ACTUALLY a special Antifa Psy Op. I take it all back Trump supporters are truly good peaceful people!!

According to Hannity that is!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 09:26:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 09:17:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:57:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:52:41 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 06, 2021, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup
People like you in your fantasy world of racist, fascist cosplay encouraged this and are complicit in this

Deplorable, shameless, criminal

Who was it again who said....."the resistance begins today" after Trump got elected?
You're a brainless moron
More abuse from Sid.
Yet when anyone speaks out to him there's a whole crying match from him.
Hypocrite
On the contrary, I welcome it

Especially from morons like you

Unlike bed wetting racist shits like you and whitey, I can give it and I can take it
Except you can't.
You give it but you can't take it.
That's why there's a whole crying match from you claiming you're the recipient of abuse every time someone on here picks you and your arguments apart.
Pure hypocrisy and irony.
You're a racist buffoon who spent a week spouting naked racism on a football thread a month ago

Little wonder you're in here kissing the ass of this forum's biggest racist, whitey

That's all that needs to be said about you
I was calling out the fake outrage from the double standard snowflake brigade in relation to racism, which still stands, not that it has any relevance here but happy to correct you yet again.

I'm in here pointing out (again) your double standards and fake outrage snowflakery because you're abusing another poster, but you get the violins out when it's done to you and it's a whole crying match, just like when you were picked apart on the Nationalism Vs thread and resorted to the "boo hoo more personal abuse" that you spouted.
Dry your eyes you hypocrite. Learn to take it if you're going to give it.
Looks like we have another Angelo/Seaney on our hands

One for the ignore button
Id say most of the board have you on ignore ;D
No wonder why you got banned from the other one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:33:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 09:23:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup

When was this attempted coup again?

The fake impeachment was an attempted coup


From day one the Democrats attempted to deligitimize his election with the Russia Hoax. They actually convinced close to half the country that Trump had only won in 2016 because of Russia interference and therefore was an illegitimate president

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html%3foutputType=amp

Don't act all shocked now that Trumps supporters are returning the favor with interest
whitey is an open fascist

LOl

I never said I agreed with what they are doing....quite the opposite

But the Democrats have no moral high ground here based on their behavior over the past four years.

It started before the inauguration and continued to the present day

Don't act all shocked now when the shoe is on the other foot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2021, 09:35:39 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136062216_10158370107829064_518228779658908141_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=EYH5Uu2neiQAX9E1DHp&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=73ad2299e9107a0b8c35e2f6806f9b67&oe=601C052A)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 06, 2021, 09:51:14 PM
Where's Django when you really need him?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on January 06, 2021, 10:14:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:33:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 09:23:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup

When was this attempted coup again?

The fake impeachment was an attempted coup


From day one the Democrats attempted to deligitimize his election with the Russia Hoax. They actually convinced close to half the country that Trump had only won in 2016 because of Russia interference and therefore was an illegitimate president

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html%3foutputType=amp

Don't act all shocked now that Trumps supporters are returning the favor with interest
whitey is an open fascist

LOl

I never said I agreed with what they are doing....quite the opposite

But the Democrats have no moral high ground here based on their behavior over the past four years.

It started before the inauguration and continued to the present day

Don't act all shocked now when the shoe is on the other foot

You must just be a WUM.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 10:20:04 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2021, 09:26:06 PM
Shit lads we got the wrong end of the stick... it's ACTUALLY a special Antifa Psy Op. I take it all back Trump supporters are truly good peaceful people!!

According to Hannity that is!

I was wondering how long this would take! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 06, 2021, 10:27:18 PM
I wonder if it was a BLM protest would there be shots fired?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 06, 2021, 10:30:17 PM
The police are now handing out coffee and sandwiches to the protestors.  National Guard  haven't arrived yet, they not only  took a wrong turning but were unarmed, they´ll arrive tomorrow morning,  possibly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 06, 2021, 10:33:45 PM
There is a report on fox news  that a police officer pushed a protestor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 10:40:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup

When was this attempted coup again?

The fake impeachment was an attempted coup


From day one the Democrats attempted to deligitimize his election with the Russia Hoax. They actually convinced close to half the country that Trump had only won in 2016 because of Russia interference and therefore was an illegitimate president

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html%3foutputType=amp

Don't act all shocked now that Trumps supporters are returning the favor with interest

1. The impeachment was entirely legitimate. Trump DID try to abuse his power to get a foreign country to investigate his opponent for personal. political reasons. Just because the GOP were ok with that doesn't make it "fake".

2. If the Russia "hoax" was such a hoax, why did Trump obstruct and use the promise of pardon's to impede the investigation? Why were Fox News going nuts for months warning him about a "perjury trap" were he to testify? Why was Roger Stone, part of his campaign, working with them and Wikileaks to get the emails? Why was Donnie Jr meeting with Russians in Trump Tower in the hopes of getting dirt? Why has Trump bent over backwards to cravenly deny every legitimate allegation brought up against Putin? The government confirmed that the Russians had interfered. The only question was whether Trump and/or his campaign actually colluded with them. That was something that absolutely needed to be investigated.

This wasn't some baseless allegation dreamed up out of whole cloth like this bullshit election fraud campaign. Nor did the Dems attempt to stop him being inaugurated or mount a major, organized campaign to that effect as Trump and the GOP have done or literally tell a mob to march on the Capitol building to physically stop the process.

This is just your usual attempt to justify your political leaning by claiming that the Dems or the media are just as bad.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 06, 2021, 10:48:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 06, 2021, 10:27:18 PM
I wonder if it was a BLM protest would there be shots fired?
blm wouldn't be caught dead there not a target or Best Buy in sight
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 06, 2021, 10:48:48 PM
Allowing Trump become president will go down as one of the biggest errors in American history.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 06, 2021, 10:50:02 PM
A tear gas grenade was discharged accidently by the police, but had the effect of clearing out thousands of the white skinned heroes, out from the immediate confines of Capitol Hill.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 06, 2021, 11:09:19 PM
The woman who was shot by police has died.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2021, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 10:40:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup

When was this attempted coup again?

The fake impeachment was an attempted coup


From day one the Democrats attempted to deligitimize his election with the Russia Hoax. They actually convinced close to half the country that Trump had only won in 2016 because of Russia interference and therefore was an illegitimate president

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html%3foutputType=amp

Don't act all shocked now that Trumps supporters are returning the favor with interest

1. The impeachment was entirely legitimate. Trump DID try to abuse his power to get a foreign country to investigate his opponent for personal. political reasons. Just because the GOP were ok with that doesn't make it "fake".

2. If the Russia "hoax" was such a hoax, why did Trump obstruct and use the promise of pardon's to impede the investigation? Why were Fox News going nuts for months warning him about a "perjury trap" were he to testify? Why was Roger Stone, part of his campaign, working with them and Wikileaks to get the emails? Why was Donnie Jr meeting with Russians in Trump Tower in the hopes of getting dirt? Why has Trump bent over backwards to cravenly deny every legitimate allegation brought up against Putin? The government confirmed that the Russians had interfered. The only question was whether Trump and/or his campaign actually colluded with them. That was something that absolutely needed to be investigated.

This wasn't some baseless allegation dreamed up out of whole cloth like this bullshit election fraud campaign. Nor did the Dems attempt to stop him being inaugurated or mount a major, organized campaign to that effect as Trump and the GOP have done or literally tell a mob to march on the Capitol building to physically stop the process.

This is just your usual attempt to justify your political leaning by claiming that the Dems or the media are just as bad.

"Insurance Policies" in the event of a Trump victory

Fake dossiers funded by Clinton campaign

Rogue FBI agents Forging documents

Illegal FISA wire taps

The "whistleblowers" attorney in 2017 tweeted "the coup begins" today and "we will get rid of him"

And you're now somehow surprised that Trump supporters are taking matters into their own hands
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 06, 2021, 11:13:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 06, 2021, 11:09:19 PM
The woman who was shot by police has died.

More blood on Trumps hands. His latest tweet WTF.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 06, 2021, 11:16:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 10:40:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup

When was this attempted coup again?

The fake impeachment was an attempted coup


From day one the Democrats attempted to deligitimize his election with the Russia Hoax. They actually convinced close to half the country that Trump had only won in 2016 because of Russia interference and therefore was an illegitimate president

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html%3foutputType=amp

Don't act all shocked now that Trumps supporters are returning the favor with interest

1. The impeachment was entirely legitimate. Trump DID try to abuse his power to get a foreign country to investigate his opponent for personal. political reasons. Just because the GOP were ok with that doesn't make it "fake".

2. If the Russia "hoax" was such a hoax, why did Trump obstruct and use the promise of pardon's to impede the investigation? Why were Fox News going nuts for months warning him about a "perjury trap" were he to testify? Why was Roger Stone, part of his campaign, working with them and Wikileaks to get the emails? Why was Donnie Jr meeting with Russians in Trump Tower in the hopes of getting dirt? Why has Trump bent over backwards to cravenly deny every legitimate allegation brought up against Putin? The government confirmed that the Russians had interfered. The only question was whether Trump and/or his campaign actually colluded with them. That was something that absolutely needed to be investigated.

This wasn't some baseless allegation dreamed up out of whole cloth like this bullshit election fraud campaign. Nor did the Dems attempt to stop him being inaugurated or mount a major, organized campaign to that effect as Trump and the GOP have done or literally tell a mob to march on the Capitol building to physically stop the process.

This is just your usual attempt to justify your political leaning by claiming that the Dems or the media are just as bad.

"Insurance Policies" in the event of a Trump victory

Fake dossiers funded by Clinton campaign

Rogue FBI agents Forging documents

Illegal FISA wire taps

The "whistleblowers" attorney in 2017 tweeted "the coup begins" today and "we will get rid of him"

And you're now somehow surprised that Trump supporters are taking matters into their own hands

There is simply no equivalency to be had here.

A f**king woman has died, pipe bombs have been found FFS while Trump tells this mob that he feels their pain and to "go in peace".

What Trump has done to bring this about is similar to Paisley inciting the murder of those Quinn kids.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 06, 2021, 11:33:00 PM
My thoughts exactly J70, he Grand Old Duke of York'd them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 06, 2021, 11:36:49 PM
This is real 25th amendment territory now. Never thought I'd ever see it in my lifetime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2021, 11:39:53 PM
A Kerryman all over the screens on CNN - he'll be replacing John King as Ireland's CNN sweetheart
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 06, 2021, 11:41:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2021, 11:39:53 PM
A Kerryman all over the screens on CNN - he'll be replacing John King as Ireland's CNN sweetheart

Already saw that meme of the man having his head turned whilst his disapproving girlfriend looks on illustrating this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 06, 2021, 11:47:42 PM
Words by someone on twitter: "The ultimate in White privilege is when you've broken in to the Speaker's Lobby, you've broken down the windows, and you're trying to break in to the floor of the House, you're 12 inches from a gun, and you're still not dead."

Seen this on FB

Had the image of the guy who's face is facing a gun inside!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 06, 2021, 11:54:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 11:16:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 10:40:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 06, 2021, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 06, 2021, 08:22:28 PM
Democrats who attempted a coup are now shocked that Trump supporters are attempting a coup

When was this attempted coup again?

The fake impeachment was an attempted coup


From day one the Democrats attempted to deligitimize his election with the Russia Hoax. They actually convinced close to half the country that Trump had only won in 2016 because of Russia interference and therefore was an illegitimate president

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html%3foutputType=amp

Don't act all shocked now that Trumps supporters are returning the favor with interest

1. The impeachment was entirely legitimate. Trump DID try to abuse his power to get a foreign country to investigate his opponent for personal. political reasons. Just because the GOP were ok with that doesn't make it "fake".

2. If the Russia "hoax" was such a hoax, why did Trump obstruct and use the promise of pardon's to impede the investigation? Why were Fox News going nuts for months warning him about a "perjury trap" were he to testify? Why was Roger Stone, part of his campaign, working with them and Wikileaks to get the emails? Why was Donnie Jr meeting with Russians in Trump Tower in the hopes of getting dirt? Why has Trump bent over backwards to cravenly deny every legitimate allegation brought up against Putin? The government confirmed that the Russians had interfered. The only question was whether Trump and/or his campaign actually colluded with them. That was something that absolutely needed to be investigated.

This wasn't some baseless allegation dreamed up out of whole cloth like this bullshit election fraud campaign. Nor did the Dems attempt to stop him being inaugurated or mount a major, organized campaign to that effect as Trump and the GOP have done or literally tell a mob to march on the Capitol building to physically stop the process.

This is just your usual attempt to justify your political leaning by claiming that the Dems or the media are just as bad.

"Insurance Policies" in the event of a Trump victory

Fake dossiers funded by Clinton campaign

Rogue FBI agents Forging documents

Illegal FISA wire taps

The "whistleblowers" attorney in 2017 tweeted "the coup begins" today and "we will get rid of him"

And you're now somehow surprised that Trump supporters are taking matters into their own hands

There is simply no equivalency to be had here.

A f**king woman has died, pipe bombs have been found FFS while Trump tells this mob that he feels their pain and to "go in peace".

What Trump has done to bring this about is similar to Paisley inciting the murder of those Quinn kids.
Russia "hoax" my arse

Trump has been hand in glove with the Russian mafia, and by extension the Soviet/Russian state, since the first half of the 1980s at least

Much of the Republican party is compromised by Russia, the rest are happy to go along with this

Anybody with even a half functioning brain realised this years ago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on January 07, 2021, 12:06:07 AM
Great day for the Republican party. Trump Sr and Jr's fingerprints are all over todays shambles. More or less torpedoes the chances of a successful Trump nomination in 4 years, the best he can hope to do is split the Republican vote as a 3rd party candidate out of spite.

Big chance for the centrist elements of the Republican party to reclaim control, however they've a job to find a candidate who'll inspire the rabble whilst still appealing to the American centre ground in the next election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2021, 12:08:38 AM
Sid

lol-there was such little evidence rogue FBI agents risked jail by forging additional documents

Guy who signed off on the FISA warrants said if he knew at the time about source of  the dossier he would never have signed them

Russian Lawyer from Trump Tower meeting attended dinners with Glen Simpson of Fusion GPS both the night before and the night after the Trump Tower meeting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 12:13:22 AM
Quote from: trileacman on January 07, 2021, 12:06:07 AM
Great day for the Republican party. Trump Sr and Jr's fingerprints are all over todays shambles. More or less torpedoes the chances of a successful Trump nomination in 4 years, the best he can hope to do is split the Republican vote as a 3rd party candidate out of spite.

Big chance for the centrist elements of the Republican party to reclaim control, however they've a job to find a candidate who'll inspire the rabble whilst still appealing to the American centre ground in the next election.
If so called "centrist" elements of the Republican party wanted to be taken seriously as good faith operators, they would already have called for Trump's immediate impeachment and removal from office

Precisely none of them are doing that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 07, 2021, 12:13:39 AM
Trump removed from Twitter for 12 hours... about time!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 12:17:15 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2021, 12:13:39 AM
Trump removed from Twitter for 12 hours... about time!!!
Not nearly enough

All his social media platforms should be revoked and networks should refuse to broadcast anything he says

He has openly incited fascist terror

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 07, 2021, 12:18:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2021, 12:13:39 AM
Trump removed from Twitter for 12 hours... about time!!!

Only 12 hours? I referred to STG by his first name here and got banned for a week!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: restorepride on January 07, 2021, 12:24:54 AM
And hurl on his golf course in Clare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TwoUpTwoDown on January 07, 2021, 12:31:28 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 07, 2021, 12:18:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 07, 2021, 12:13:39 AM
Trump removed from Twitter for 12 hours... about time!!!

Only 12 hours? I referred to STG by his first name here and got banned for a week!  ;D

Well worth it at the time I'm sure  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 12:35:35 AM
Biden was far too weak in his response, should have grasped the staff and cast the snake away from Washington, told him he was not welcome at the inaugural event and should crawl away to his retirement hovel
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 12:41:34 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 12:35:35 AM
Biden was far too weak in his response, should have grasped the staff and cast the snake away from Washington, told him he was not welcome at the inaugural event and should crawl away to his retirement hovel

I thought Biden was both forceful and measured. His comments were appropriate IMO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 12:55:17 AM
Sarah Palin on Fox blaming "Antifa"

Murdoch media is the disinformation propaganda and lies operation the Nazis wish they had

Far right "libertarian" capitalist ideology says that the worth of what a person says can only be measured by the reaction they generate

And thus the most hateful, stupid, bigoted, incendiary things have the most worth

This ideology is destroying our world

Trump is the logical outcome of this evil ideology



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 01:06:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 12:41:34 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 12:35:35 AM
Biden was far too weak in his response, should have grasped the staff and cast the snake away from Washington, told him he was not welcome at the inaugural event and should crawl away to his retirement hovel

I thought Biden was both forceful and measured. His comments were appropriate IMO.
You're easily impressed by a jelly baby.  Biden is powder puff. This was his time to take America back, even Rudy G knew when his time had come way back in the day.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 01:10:41 AM
Even Pence has showed more fire than Biden. No one will ever remember one word Biden uttered from his bumbling speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on January 07, 2021, 01:47:47 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 01:10:41 AM
Even Pence has showed more fire than Biden. No one will ever remember one word Biden uttered from his bumbling speech.

But he got Trump to get off his hole and make a statement and those words will be remembered
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tubberman on January 07, 2021, 07:45:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 01:10:41 AM
Even Pence has showed more fire than Biden. No one will ever remember one word Biden uttered from his bumbling speech.

Thought it was an excellent speech - he showed himself to be a statesman.
You wanted him to stoke the flames?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2021, 08:40:15 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 01:10:41 AM
Even Pence has showed more fire than Biden. No one will ever remember one word Biden uttered from his bumbling speech.

https://next-media-api.ft.com/renditions/16099722549720/1280x720.mp4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2021, 08:44:43 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 01:10:41 AM
Even Pence has showed more fire than Biden. No one will ever remember one word Biden uttered from his bumbling speech.

Didn't think the speech was any great shakes.

The tone of it was about right though - IMO.

But it certainly wasn't time for fire.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2021, 09:06:39 AM
Also.

The second biggest cnut in politics is now trying to curry some favour with Biden.

Shameless cretin that she is.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55571482
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on January 07, 2021, 09:08:26 AM
It is tough to figure out who is 2nd worst but I'd say you could be right. It's very competitive at the top these days.

Shows you how cowardly they are - they'll only speak out when it's basically all over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 07, 2021, 09:11:53 AM
So the prophecy has came true. Trump is a fascist who tried to overthrow the government and grab power. But what of those who have hooked up to him even though they were told? What about those fascists? Farage, Paisley, Wilson, IDS, Jacob Rees Mogg? Surely now people must see them for what they are..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 07, 2021, 09:52:42 AM
people see what they want to see...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 07, 2021, 10:04:34 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 09:06:39 AM
Also.

The second biggest cnut in politics is now trying to curry some favour with Biden.

Shameless cretin that she is.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55571482

I wouldn't worry. He'll be wise to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armamike on January 07, 2021, 10:16:06 AM
By denying democracy and effectively trying to thwart it by any means Trump is veering very closely into coup territory,  He mightn't have the military behind him but he's still hoping for the same outcome - preventing a democratically elected leader from taking up his rightful position.  Very dangerous times for the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on January 07, 2021, 10:24:58 AM
Nothing to worry about here - Trump has promised on orderly transition - but he still disagrees with the outcome of the election  :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 10:28:08 AM
Quote from: Armamike on January 07, 2021, 10:16:06 AM
By denying democracy and effectively trying to thwart it by any means Trump is veering very closely into coup territory,  He mightn't have the military behind him but he's still hoping for the same outcome - preventing a democratically elected leader from taking up his rightful position.  Very dangerous times for the US.

You would hope that this would shake the GOP and the US right out of their Trump-addled stupour, but this shit runs far deeper than him and his pathetic narcissism. They've nurtured and cultivated this culture of baseless grievance, bigotry and anti-intellectualism for decades, and now it may be out of their control. They might jettison Trump and return to the dog whistles, but the idiocy they've created is not going anywhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: NAG1 on January 07, 2021, 10:32:21 AM
Wonder was it all a big cover for his land sale to the huge Oil companies which were previously Nature Reservations.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 10:37:16 AM
Trump expressed his "love" for his MAGA mob yesterday.

Meanwhile, back in the summer, he tweeted this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1346917076095492098/photo/1 (https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1346917076095492098/photo/1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 10:40:21 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 07, 2021, 10:32:21 AM
Wonder was it all a big cover for his land sale to the huge Oil companies which were previously Nature Reservations.

Biden is going to have his hands full trying to mitigate and undo Trump's assault on environmental and ecological protections.

Should be a wee bit more doable with the Senate, but there's probably only so much he can do.

Some major banks have vowed not to fund ventures such as drilling in ANWR, but it's going to take a lot more than that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2021, 11:00:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 07, 2021, 09:11:53 AM
So the prophecy has came true. Trump is a fascist who tried to overthrow the government and grab power. But what of those who have hooked up to him even though they were told? What about those fascists? Farage, Paisley, Wilson, IDS, Jacob Rees Mogg? Surely now people must see them for what they are..

Not a single one of those people will give a fcuk.

The gushing they do about 'democracy' is bullshit

These guys would ditch democracy in a millisecond if they thought

a)
It would get them into power

and

b)
They could get away with it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on January 07, 2021, 11:13:57 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 11:00:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 07, 2021, 09:11:53 AM
So the prophecy has came true. Trump is a fascist who tried to overthrow the government and grab power. But what of those who have hooked up to him even though they were told? What about those fascists? Farage, Paisley, Wilson, IDS, Jacob Rees Mogg? Surely now people must see them for what they are..

Not a single one of those people will give a fcuk.

The gushing they do about 'democracy' is bullshit

These guys would ditch democracy in a millisecond if they thought

a)
It would get them into power

and

b)
They could get away with it

c)
They could make money from it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on January 07, 2021, 11:15:05 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 11:00:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 07, 2021, 09:11:53 AM
So the prophecy has came true. Trump is a fascist who tried to overthrow the government and grab power. But what of those who have hooked up to him even though they were told? What about those fascists? Farage, Paisley, Wilson, IDS, Jacob Rees Mogg? Surely now people must see them for what they are..

Not a single one of those people will give a fcuk.

The gushing they do about 'democracy' is bullshit

These guys would ditch democracy in a millisecond if they thought

a)
It would get them into power

and

b)
They could get away with it

Sounds like the DUP!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 07, 2021, 11:48:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 10:28:08 AM
Quote from: Armamike on January 07, 2021, 10:16:06 AM
By denying democracy and effectively trying to thwart it by any means Trump is veering very closely into coup territory,  He mightn't have the military behind him but he's still hoping for the same outcome - preventing a democratically elected leader from taking up his rightful position.  Very dangerous times for the US.

You would hope that this would shake the GOP and the US right out of their Trump-addled stupour, but this shit runs far deeper than him and his pathetic narcissism. They've nurtured and cultivated this culture of baseless grievance, bigotry and anti-intellectualism for decades, and now it may be out of their control. They might jettison Trump and return to the dog whistles, but the idiocy they've created is not going anywhere.

You would hope alright, if it weren't for the fact that the likes of Cruz and Hawley are already out there trying to court Trump's base. Yesterday won't change that a jot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 07, 2021, 11:59:04 AM
Was it 121 Republicans in the Congress voted not to accept the Election result with 82 voting for it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
The only way this can end is through responsible media regulation worldwide

But that won't and can never happen, because fascism is such an attractive sell in monetary terms

It makes a lot of people a lot of money - Murdoch media is basically a terrorist organisation

Why do people believe nonsense? Because it's constantly thrust in their face

There is a worldwide far right war of disinformation, lies and propaganda

I'm watching Fox News here purely to make myself angry and have been doing so on and off since the other night

I first watched Fox News before the 2004 election

A few minutes ago they had Dan Crenshaw on breathing far right fire

They just had an Australian woman called Miranda Devine on doing the same thing - every "contributor" shouts "Antifa" and how the scum yesterday were "decent people"

Last night Tucker Carlson was clearly trying to equate white skin colour with innocence and black skin colour with criminality

There was a woman called Rachel Campos-Duffy on yesterday who was like a female fascist Tony Montana

That this stuff is broadcast is pure evil, it's far above North Korea level propaganda, it's the crack cocaine of racism and fascism

People with a brain need to watch Fox - with extreme caution - to understand the sheer depravity on the American right-wing "mind", as epitomised by racist, fascist "whitey" on here

It's mind bending

American "conservatism" is the most shallow, stagnant, politically correct, intellect-rejecting ideology in the world, it's a bottomless cesspit

Noam Chomsky called Donald Trump the most dangerous person in history a few months back

I can't decide whether the Republican Party or Murdoch media is the most dangerous organisation in human history

Even more dangerous than the Nazis because frying the entire planet for kicks wasn't a core part of the Nazis' ideology
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 12:28:09 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/d/8/d85e566e5cc3b3991cf481c37f69af0edabfe4dc_2_1035x666.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 12:30:40 PM
That Miranda Devine has had her column in the NY Post for the past while.

It is some of the most inane, predictable, barely warmed over, right wing shite you could ever read.

Like many of those right wing pundits she is stealing a living.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 01:10:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 12:30:40 PM
That Miranda Devine has had her column in the NY Post for the past while.

It is some of the most inane, predictable, barely warmed over, right wing shite you could ever read.

Like many of those right wing pundits she is stealing a living.
All of them

And stealing a living is the least of their crimes

They are like the foot soldiers of ISIS

They are like Anjem Choudary in the way they have pied pipered and brainwashed millions of people down the extreme right wing rabbit hole

Actually Choudary is far less dangerous, he didn't reach nearly as many people

The worldwide right-wing disinformation bullshit machine genuinely is ISIS-like in its propensity for brainwashing

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 07, 2021, 01:37:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 11:00:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 07, 2021, 09:11:53 AM
So the prophecy has came true. Trump is a fascist who tried to overthrow the government and grab power. But what of those who have hooked up to him even though they were told? What about those fascists? Farage, Paisley, Wilson, IDS, Jacob Rees Mogg? Surely now people must see them for what they are..

Not a single one of those people will give a fcuk.

The gushing they do about 'democracy' is bullshit

These guys would ditch democracy in a millisecond if they thought

a)
It would get them into power

and

b)
They could get away with it

Sure didn't Boris and Co try to override the democracy of the UK by proroguing parliament to prevent one of their Brexit bills getting aired.

Hardly the bastions of democracy either are they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 01:38:12 PM
Speaking of right wing columnists, this one by a John Kass of the Chicago Tribune showed up in my google news feed.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html)

Standard, perfunctory stuff after the fact, comdemning Trump's actions yesterday (I've no idea how much of a Trumper he is).

But he includes THIS line at the end:

As I watched the mob breaking the law, climbing the walls, I thought about the roots of their anger. They're the forgotten. They feel as if their voice has been taken from them. They're hated by those who control the culture — the media, the academics, Big Tech, Big Business — and their resentmentment will only grow.

Who the f**k are these apparent babies?

"Oh no, the "elites" or "Big Tech" don't like me, that's why my life is..."

How the f**k can Big Tech not like someone?

Because they ban you for spreading racist or baseless bullshit? If that's the case, then maybe the issue is closer to home.

Academics? Why, because their findings don't jibe with your anecdotal opinion of how the world really is, or what you learned in church or down in the pub or on Fox News?

Big Business? Why the f**k are you voting for a man like Trump and a party like the GOP who think there should be few to no rules for business and no recourse against Big Business for the little guy?

The Media? Do you even listen to, read or watch anything other than Fox News or The Gateway Pundit or Rush Limbaugh and who deliberately stoke the resentment flames?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 01:45:14 PM
Good Twitter thread here about how Ashli Babbitt, the woman who was shot and killed yesterday inside the Capitol, was radicalised

https://twitter.com/hungrybowtie/status/1347012990424416256

A video of her ranting while driving a car is doing the rounds on Twitter and it is quite interesting

It's sad because as well as copious amounts of total craziness, she says a couple of things which make you think that underneath it she could have been a good person, or could have been had she not fallen victim to brainwashing

But she fell totally for the simplistic, seductive, easy, hate filled answers of extreme right media

She was trying to make sense of complicated things, was hopelessly ill equipped to do so, and like so many others, chose the easy answers

A victim in her own way - just like those who joined ISIS are victims in their own way - victims of industrial strength brainwashing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 01:53:10 PM
She's a victim, radicalised is strong, as it seems at the minute you have 80 million people radicalized if we look at Trump supporters. Its not republican anymore its Trumplican at the minute which is very dangerous..

Plenty of footage, hopefully everyone is rounded up and dealt with accordingly. Trump needs to be held accountable at some stage, hopefully the day after he's kicked out.

Though its best if he's just ignored and starved of any attention, he'll not be spending his own money on rallies so he might just f**k off to Florida and catch herpes  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 01:55:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 01:38:12 PM
Speaking of right wing columnists, this one by a John Kass of the Chicago Tribune showed up in my google news feed.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html)

Standard, perfunctory stuff after the fact, comdemning Trump's actions yesterday (I've no idea how much of a Trumper he is).

But he includes THIS line at the end:

As I watched the mob breaking the law, climbing the walls, I thought about the roots of their anger. They're the forgotten. They feel as if their voice has been taken from them. They're hated by those who control the culture — the media, the academics, Big Tech, Big Business — and their resentmentment will only grow.

Who the f**k are these apparent babies?

"Oh no, the "elites" or "Big Tech" don't like me, that's why my life is..."

How the f**k can Big Tech not like someone?

Because they ban you for spreading racist or baseless bullshit? If that's the case, then maybe the issue is closer to home.

Academics? Why, because their findings don't jibe with your anecdotal opinion of how the world really is, or what you learned in church or down in the pub or on Fox News?

Big Business? Why the f**k are you voting for a man like Trump and a party like the GOP who think there should be few to no rules for business and no recourse against Big Business for the little guy?

The Media? Do you even listen to, read or watch anything other than Fox News or The Gateway Pundit or Rush Limbaugh and who deliberately stoke the resentment flames?

The biggest con ever pulled off in the world is how right-wing politics and its propaganda machine has convinced so many poor people that it is on its side, even though it is destroying them

They've worked out to a tee how to do this - they use trigger words to create tribes - and when people buy into the idea of tribe, they are then effectively part of a cult

In the US, the way right-wing politics and media sections white working class and poor people into tribes who will unthinkingly support the Republicans, is by creating the fake enemies of black people, other racial ethnic minorities, sexual and gender minorities, "communism", and now science, fact, reason and indeed democracy - and creating endless moral panic about all of them

This results in millions of people who have effectively been lobotomised, we even have some of them here - whitey and GMac

And the tactic is basically the same worldwide, just slight variations on the theme

What US right-wing politics and media does is the same as what the Nazis did

I've been saying this for years, nobody has ever been able to challenge the point, because the point is on the nose



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:04:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 01:53:10 PM
She's a victim, radicalised is strong, as it seems at the minute you have 80 million people radicalized if we look at Trump supporters.
I think at this stage you'd have to say every single one of those 74 million people who voted for Trump has been radicalised, at least on some level

They're all lobotomised on some level

Even the "intelligent" ones come across as lobotomised

Like, I listened to this a few months ago - it's an interview with a guy called Michael Brendan Dougherty of the "National Review"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/inside-politics/inside-politics-us-politics-special-with-michael-brendan-dougherty-1.4330418?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Finside-politics%2Finside-politics-us-politics-special-with-michael-brendan-dougherty-1.4330418

The guy is clearly intelligent - but on another level, he still comes across as lobotomised, institutionalised into cultism - but also in total denial - he seems trapped in a massive contradiction of his own mind

More interesting still are the likes of Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi - who continually say they're "on the left", but are so clearly down the Trump rabbit hole, they have disgraced themselves, all because they're obsessed with being right on the internet - they took a wrong position several years ago, and rather than just say they've changed their minds, they dug in and are still digging in, and have gone completely cray cray

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 07, 2021, 02:19:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:04:35 PM

More interesting still are the likes of Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi - who continually say they're "on the left", but are so clearly down the Trump rabbit hole, they have disgraced themselves, all because they're obsessed with being right on the internet - they took a wrong position several years ago, and rather than just say they've changed their minds, they dug in and are still digging in, and have gone completely cray cray
That's funny considering what Taibbi wrote last September https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-trump-era-sucks-and-needs-to?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 07, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 01:38:12 PM
Speaking of right wing columnists, this one by a John Kass of the Chicago Tribune showed up in my google news feed.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html)

Standard, perfunctory stuff after the fact, comdemning Trump's actions yesterday (I've no idea how much of a Trumper he is).

But he includes THIS line at the end:

As I watched the mob breaking the law, climbing the walls, I thought about the roots of their anger. They're the forgotten. They feel as if their voice has been taken from them. They're hated by those who control the culture — the media, the academics, Big Tech, Big Business — and their resentmentment will only grow.

Who the f**k are these apparent babies?

"Oh no, the "elites" or "Big Tech" don't like me, that's why my life is..."

How the f**k can Big Tech not like someone?

Because they ban you for spreading racist or baseless bullshit? If that's the case, then maybe the issue is closer to home.

Academics? Why, because their findings don't jibe with your anecdotal opinion of how the world really is, or what you learned in church or down in the pub or on Fox News?

Big Business? Why the f**k are you voting for a man like Trump and a party like the GOP who think there should be few to no rules for business and no recourse against Big Business for the little guy?

The Media? Do you even listen to, read or watch anything other than Fox News or The Gateway Pundit or Rush Limbaugh and who deliberately stoke the resentment flames?

This is very true. And...
This shit about "the forgotten" one example is that every time Obama tried to push through universal healthcare the Reps voted against it. The Reps believe is small government, by it's very nature it forgets about people. Let people sort themselves, the cream will rise. That is their attitude.
They've been gaslighting these people for years and they have finally lost their minds.

To those of you with a better understanding of Washington, why did it seem like there was so little security and why was it possible for what appeared to be an unarmed mob to just walk into Capitol hill. I would imagine with the domestic terrorism they suffer out there that it would be basically 24/7 armed guard? That just appears strange. I remember going out the Statue of Liberty and the security was really strict. Something about that doesn't sit right with me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:31:31 PM
Below is the crack cocaine of fascism

This is the prototype representation of everything I talk about

This is the far right "libertarian" capitalist ideology of the most stupid, hateful, bigoted, cyncial, simplistic opinions having the most "worth", because they generate the most reaction

Articles like this are specifically designed to create mass tribes of lobotomised people who work in service to fascism, oligarchy and kleptocracy - without even knowing it

And there are elements of Putinism in it too

O'Neill's schtick is that he calls himself a "free thinker", but what he is doing is aimed at creating mass confusion, mass cynicism - his schtick is "question everything", "do ur own reserch" "what is truth anyway?", "nothing is true"

This creates a mind space of total confusion, total cyncism yet almost total gullibility

It feeds into the alt-right media sphere of crazy conspiracy theories

You see it on every forum like this, you see it all over the internet - you see elements of how this has rubbed off on posters here too - people like Wobbler - on one level Wobbler is smart, he's articulate, he's not stupid - but on another level, he's gone down a rabbit hole - but he's only at the "I'm totally confused about everything" stage

Angelo and Seaney are less smart victims, much more stereotypical victims who have bought into conspiracy stuff

In an effort to make sense of this mass confusion, people turn to easy, simplistic, hate filled answers - in a desperate search for "order"

Ashli Babbitt did this

But the people who promise "order" only offer chaos

And me linking to this is proof that O'Neill's strategy works - but if you don't know the enemy, how can you defeat it?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErIkhauXMAQgMSC?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 02:19:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:04:35 PM

More interesting still are the likes of Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi - who continually say they're "on the left", but are so clearly down the Trump rabbit hole, they have disgraced themselves, all because they're obsessed with being right on the internet - they took a wrong position several years ago, and rather than just say they've changed their minds, they dug in and are still digging in, and have gone completely cray cray
That's funny considering what Taibbi wrote last September https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-trump-era-sucks-and-needs-to?
Taibbi is the media equivalent of an internet poster who says "oh, but I have criticised Trump as well"

While in reality their whole agenda is slyly pro-Trump

He's a weasel
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 02:42:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 02:19:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:04:35 PM

More interesting still are the likes of Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi - who continually say they're "on the left", but are so clearly down the Trump rabbit hole, they have disgraced themselves, all because they're obsessed with being right on the internet - they took a wrong position several years ago, and rather than just say they've changed their minds, they dug in and are still digging in, and have gone completely cray cray
That's funny considering what Taibbi wrote last September https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-trump-era-sucks-and-needs-to?
Taibbi is the media equivalent of an internet poster who says "oh, but I have criticised Trump as well"

While in reality their whole agenda is slyly pro-Trump

He's a weasel
Have you any examples to support your claim?  i.e. apart from you saying he is that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2021, 02:52:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 02:42:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 02:19:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:04:35 PM

More interesting still are the likes of Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi - who continually say they're "on the left", but are so clearly down the Trump rabbit hole, they have disgraced themselves, all because they're obsessed with being right on the internet - they took a wrong position several years ago, and rather than just say they've changed their minds, they dug in and are still digging in, and have gone completely cray cray
That's funny considering what Taibbi wrote last September https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-trump-era-sucks-and-needs-to?
Taibbi is the media equivalent of an internet poster who says "oh, but I have criticised Trump as well"

While in reality their whole agenda is slyly pro-Trump

He's a weasel
Have you any examples to support your claim?  i.e. apart from you saying he is that.

The problem with Sid is that unless you agree with him on 100% of the issues 100% of the time he attempts to shout you down by accusing you of being a racist, Nazi or white supremacist

The Democratic Party, BLM and Antifa are all off limits from any criticism in whatever world he inhabits

Criticize someone who assaults a police officer and now all of a sudden you're accused  of supporting every action of every police officer in every police department in the country going back to the beginning of time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 07, 2021, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 07, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 01:38:12 PM
Speaking of right wing columnists, this one by a John Kass of the Chicago Tribune showed up in my google news feed.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html)

Standard, perfunctory stuff after the fact, comdemning Trump's actions yesterday (I've no idea how much of a Trumper he is).

But he includes THIS line at the end:

As I watched the mob breaking the law, climbing the walls, I thought about the roots of their anger. They're the forgotten. They feel as if their voice has been taken from them. They're hated by those who control the culture — the media, the academics, Big Tech, Big Business — and their resentmentment will only grow.

Who the f**k are these apparent babies?

"Oh no, the "elites" or "Big Tech" don't like me, that's why my life is..."

How the f**k can Big Tech not like someone?

Because they ban you for spreading racist or baseless bullshit? If that's the case, then maybe the issue is closer to home.

Academics? Why, because their findings don't jibe with your anecdotal opinion of how the world really is, or what you learned in church or down in the pub or on Fox News?

Big Business? Why the f**k are you voting for a man like Trump and a party like the GOP who think there should be few to no rules for business and no recourse against Big Business for the little guy?

The Media? Do you even listen to, read or watch anything other than Fox News or The Gateway Pundit or Rush Limbaugh and who deliberately stoke the resentment flames?

This is very true. And...
This shit about "the forgotten" one example is that every time Obama tried to push through universal healthcare the Reps voted against it. The Reps believe is small government, by it's very nature it forgets about people. Let people sort themselves, the cream will rise. That is their attitude.
They've been gaslighting these people for years and they have finally lost their minds.

To those of you with a better understanding of Washington, why did it seem like there was so little security and why was it possible for what appeared to be an unarmed mob to just walk into Capitol hill. I would imagine with the domestic terrorism they suffer out there that it would be basically 24/7 armed guard? That just appears strange. I remember going out the Statue of Liberty and the security was really strict. Something about that doesn't sit right with me.

A mixture of factors.  There are only about 2000 police in the Capitol (as opposed to the D.C. police).  A request for the national guard for additional security was apparently denied.  The person who would be in charge of bringing in the army was across town telling his supporters to storm the Capitol, so he'd hardly be likely to get the army in.

And then you have videos of police opening barriers for the insurgents, and taking selfies with them inside the building.

Having been at large peaceful protests over the years, I can tell you that the more usual security is streets lined with riot police in full gear.  And lots of people getting hemmed in by the police, zip-tied, and arrested.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 07, 2021, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 07, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 01:38:12 PM
Speaking of right wing columnists, this one by a John Kass of the Chicago Tribune showed up in my google news feed.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-washington-protests-kass-20210107-iji5pk2j4nh7hlkrn2j3dwi2tq-story.html)

Standard, perfunctory stuff after the fact, comdemning Trump's actions yesterday (I've no idea how much of a Trumper he is).

But he includes THIS line at the end:

As I watched the mob breaking the law, climbing the walls, I thought about the roots of their anger. They're the forgotten. They feel as if their voice has been taken from them. They're hated by those who control the culture — the media, the academics, Big Tech, Big Business — and their resentmentment will only grow.

Who the f**k are these apparent babies?

"Oh no, the "elites" or "Big Tech" don't like me, that's why my life is..."

How the f**k can Big Tech not like someone?

Because they ban you for spreading racist or baseless bullshit? If that's the case, then maybe the issue is closer to home.

Academics? Why, because their findings don't jibe with your anecdotal opinion of how the world really is, or what you learned in church or down in the pub or on Fox News?

Big Business? Why the f**k are you voting for a man like Trump and a party like the GOP who think there should be few to no rules for business and no recourse against Big Business for the little guy?

The Media? Do you even listen to, read or watch anything other than Fox News or The Gateway Pundit or Rush Limbaugh and who deliberately stoke the resentment flames?

This is very true. And...
This shit about "the forgotten" one example is that every time Obama tried to push through universal healthcare the Reps voted against it. The Reps believe is small government, by it's very nature it forgets about people. Let people sort themselves, the cream will rise. That is their attitude.
They've been gaslighting these people for years and they have finally lost their minds.

To those of you with a better understanding of Washington, why did it seem like there was so little security and why was it possible for what appeared to be an unarmed mob to just walk into Capitol hill. I would imagine with the domestic terrorism they suffer out there that it would be basically 24/7 armed guard? That just appears strange. I remember going out the Statue of Liberty and the security was really strict. Something about that doesn't sit right with me.

A mixture of factors.  There are only about 2000 police in the Capitol (as opposed to the D.C. police).  A request for the national guard for additional security was apparently denied.  The person who would be in charge of bringing in the army was across town telling his supporters to storm the Capitol, so he'd hardly be likely to get the army in.

And then you have videos of police opening barriers for the insurgents, and taking selfies with them inside the building.

Having been at large peaceful protests over the years, I can tell you that the more usual security is streets lined with riot police in full gear.  And lots of people getting hemmed in by the police, zip-tied, and arrested.

I don't know which committees have oversight of the Capitol police and overall security (Judiciary, Homeland Security and Governmental Affairis?), but there'll definitely be investigations with the Dems now in charge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 07, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Taibbi is the media equivalent of an internet poster who says "oh, but I have criticised Trump as well"

While in reality their whole agenda is slyly pro-Trump

He's a weasel

There's a bit more than criticism in that piece, written weeks out from an election when a good percentage of Taibbi's readership was presumably deciding which way to cast their vote in a tight election race. He tore Trump to pieces.

If that's slyly pro-Trump, I'll have whatever you're smoking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 03:23:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 02:42:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 02:19:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:04:35 PM

More interesting still are the likes of Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi - who continually say they're "on the left", but are so clearly down the Trump rabbit hole, they have disgraced themselves, all because they're obsessed with being right on the internet - they took a wrong position several years ago, and rather than just say they've changed their minds, they dug in and are still digging in, and have gone completely cray cray
That's funny considering what Taibbi wrote last September https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-trump-era-sucks-and-needs-to?
Taibbi is the media equivalent of an internet poster who says "oh, but I have criticised Trump as well"

While in reality their whole agenda is slyly pro-Trump

He's a weasel
Have you any examples to support your claim?  i.e. apart from you saying he is that.
Taibbie says "Russiagate is this generation's WMD"

Pure shite

I've been reading Greenwald and Taibbi's Twitter feeds for years

Read their feeds - they are full of downplaying Trump's threat, continual snide comments, their obsession is with MSNBC, CNN and others, that's who their enemy is, not Trump, and it's for the worst reasons

Michael Tracey is another guy exactly like this, they all have an online circle jerk going, backslaps for the boys

None are proper journalists, they are opinion writers who write continual self-pitying parodies of pieces, that's why they've fucked off to Substack

Greenwald was basically fired from his own online outlet The Intercept, recently, because he was pushing far right disinformation

Him and Taibbi totally dismiss the notion that Trump is a Russian asset despite literally everything we know about him leaving no other explanation than that he is

Greenwald is a regular on Tucker Carlson

What Greenwald and Taibbi are is the Jimmy Dore "left" - the dirtbag left ie. they take a Russia Today line

They are obsessed with the notion that Trump has nothing to do with Russia

They are not to be trusted

Greenwald/Taibbi is a Batman/Robin type situation - Greenwald is Batman and Taibbi is Robin

Taibbi is a parrot of Greenwald

Taibbi spent years in Russia in the 1990s with RT favourite Mark Ames, and they treated women abominably there, it was a basically a sexual harrassment safari for rich kids for them

Join the dots as to their views on Russia

Greenwald lives in Brazil where he rails against Bolsonaro

Yet he applies an altogether different standard as regards Trump - how does that work? Imagine being fiercely anti-Mussolini but strangely ambivalent towards Hitler

There is a section of "the left" (if you believe they really are on the left) who are morally bankrupt on Trump because they are Russia apologists, they downplay his threat

Sad to say but John Pilger, a once great journalist, is in this category

Tulsi Gabbard is very much in this category

None of them are to be remotely trusted










Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 03:30:27 PM
I read Taibbi's piece and his criticism of the left for giving oxygen to his "act".

My question for him would be how can people NOT react to Trump's rhetoric and actions? He's the president FFS, not some loudmouth down the pub.

I really hope the media begins to ignore him after January 20, but at a certain point you can't. I don't expect him to dominate the news, but if he is out there holding rallies, promoting racism and xenophobia, and still holding one of the two major parties in the palm of his hand, how do you pretend he's not there?

Maybe the GOP will do everyone a favour, face him down and not give in to the pressure. Or else split and leave him with a small constituency (but then again, a majority of Republicans have said Trump over party in polls last year).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on January 07, 2021, 03:40:04 PM
If Trump went away (illess/death/whatever) does anyone think things would change in the States?

There is a substantial amount of people in the US that will link themselves to anyone who will forward what they see as their right
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 03:40:21 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Taibbi is the media equivalent of an internet poster who says "oh, but I have criticised Trump as well"

While in reality their whole agenda is slyly pro-Trump

He's a weasel

There's a bit more than criticism in that piece, written weeks out from an election when a good percentage of Taibbi's readership was presumably deciding which way to cast their vote in a tight election race. He tore Trump to pieces.

If that's slyly pro-Trump, I'll have whatever you're smoking.
Taibbi is a con

He'll say stuff that makes him look good

But his criticisms of Trump are always skin deep

He'll talk about Trump's "mental state" (in reality there's nothing to indicate Trump is genuinely mentally impaired), his narcissism, things like that, he'll utter shallow criticisms of Trump's racism and manner

The exact same things you'll read in the Wall Street Journal - safe criticism

Taibbi writes from a privileged white boy standpoint - what Trump has unleashed will never affect him

He's a shallow soap opera guy

But he won't do a proper dig into the structural factors around Trump, he won't dig into Trump's criminal ties and criminal past he won't dig into stuff that might really rock the boat, like how badly the Republican party is compromised

To him, Trump's racism and fascism is not really racism and fascism, it's a tiddling curiosity to be laughed at

To Taibbi, the real enemy is not Trump and the Republicans and the things that drive them like kleptocracy, white supremacism, science denial and kompromat - but Rachel Maddow, Sarah Kendzior, David Cay Johnston and Timothy Snyder, Wayne Barrett before them - people who are actually on Trump's tail for real and have a proper rounded understanding of what's going on

Initially I thought that was he was too proud to admit he was asleep at the wheel in 2016/17 about what Trump was, but now I'm not so sure, I think there may be more malign motives, I can't prove that, but I've seen nothing to make me suspect he and Greenwald have good faith motives
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 03:47:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 03:30:27 PM
I read Taibbi's piece and his criticism of the left for giving oxygen to his "act".

My question for him would be how can people NOT react to Trump's rhetoric and actions? He's the president FFS, not some loudmouth down the pub.

I really hope the media begins to ignore him after January 20, but at a certain point you can't. I don't expect him to dominate the news, but if he is out there holding rallies, promoting racism and xenophobia, and still holding one of the two major parties in the palm of his hand, how do you pretend he's not there?

Maybe the GOP will do everyone a favour, face him down and not give in to the pressure. Or else split and leave him with a small constituency (but then again, a majority of Republicans have said Trump over party in polls last year).
And this is the core of Taibbi's message - ignore Trump as if he's a curiosity, that Trump is "acting", "it's not fascism, tut tut", that the "real blame" for Trump lies with who "provoked" the Trump phenomenon

You have to seriously question the motives of anybody for whom this is the narrative

This is the Russian narrative
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 03:52:00 PM
Incidentally Glenn Greenwald, who says "Russiagate is this generation's WMD", supported the Iraq War

Something he will now never admit to - but he admitted it himself, he wrote it in 2006

Quote
https://www.bookbrowse.com/excerpts/index.cfm?fuseaction=printable&book_number=1812

During the lead-up to the invasion, I was concerned that the hell-bent focus on invading Iraq was being driven by agendas and strategic objectives that had nothing to do with terrorism or the 9/11 attacks. The overt rationale for the invasion was exceedingly weak, particularly given that it would lead to an open-ended, incalculably costly, and intensely risky preemptive war. Around the same time, it was revealed that an invasion of Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein had been high on the agenda of various senior administration officials long before September 11. Despite these doubts, concerns, and grounds for ambivalence, I had not abandoned my trust in the Bush administration. Between the president's performance in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, the swift removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the fact that I wanted the president to succeed, because my loyalty is to my country and he was the leader of my country, I still gave the administration the benefit of the doubt. I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to develop a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 03:40:21 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Taibbi is the media equivalent of an internet poster who says "oh, but I have criticised Trump as well"

While in reality their whole agenda is slyly pro-Trump

He's a weasel

There's a bit more than criticism in that piece, written weeks out from an election when a good percentage of Taibbi's readership was presumably deciding which way to cast their vote in a tight election race. He tore Trump to pieces.

If that's slyly pro-Trump, I'll have whatever you're smoking.
Taibbi is a con

He'll say stuff that makes him look good

But his criticisms of Trump are always skin deep

He'll talk about Trump's "mental state" (in reality there's nothing to indicate Trump is genuinely mentally impaired), his narcissism, things like that, he'll utter shallow criticisms of Trump's racism and manner

The exact same things you'll read in the Wall Street Journal - safe criticism

Taibbi writes from a privileged white boy standpoint - what Trump has unleashed will never affect him

He's a shallow soap opera guy

But he won't do a proper dig into the structural factors around Trump, he won't dig into Trump's criminal ties and criminal past he won't dig into stuff that might really rock the boat, like how badly the Republican party is compromised

To him, Trump's racism and fascism is not really racism and fascism, it's a tiddling curiosity to be laughed at

To Taibbi, the real enemy is not Trump and the Republicans and the things that drive them like kleptocracy, white supremacism, science denial and kompromat - but Rachel Maddow, Sarah Kendzior, David Cay Johnston and Timothy Snyder, Wayne Barrett before them - people who are actually on Trump's tail for real and have a proper rounded understanding of what's going on

Initially I thought that was he was too proud to admit he was asleep at the wheel in 2016/17 about what Trump was, but now I'm not so sure, I think there may be more malign motives, I can't prove that, but I've seen nothing to make me suspect he and Greenwald have good faith motives
So no links provided to something Taibbi wrote in order to support your claim,  just Sid says 'Mat's a weasel who's slid down  deep into Trump's rabbit hole',  therefore he is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 07, 2021, 03:40:04 PM
If Trump went away (illess/death/whatever) does anyone think things would change in the States?

There is a substantial amount of people in the US that will link themselves to anyone who will forward what they see as their right
White supremacism is an ever present monster

It's always there

Many tens of millions of white people who do not consider themselves white supremacist are white supremacist

Trump unleashed the monster

After the 1960s, the Republicans had always been unleashing the monster of white supremacism, but in coded ways which sort of kept it somewhat in check, evil as their strategy was - but there's no safe dose in which you can do that, if you appease it, it comes to a head

Plenty of Democrats also participated in that

White supremacism will always be there as long as historical and contemporary truths are not faced up to - and doing that offends many tens of millions of white people in the US in the same way that telling real truths about the British Empire offends a lot of British people

Calling for "unity", for "healing", while better than what the Republicans do, still offers cover to what are essentially historical and contemporary lies, and allows the white supremacist monster continue to lurk, it just doesn't poke it in the same way

But the monster is currently out there and rampant, it's hard to see how it can even be subdued at this point

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 03:40:21 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Taibbi is the media equivalent of an internet poster who says "oh, but I have criticised Trump as well"

While in reality their whole agenda is slyly pro-Trump

He's a weasel

There's a bit more than criticism in that piece, written weeks out from an election when a good percentage of Taibbi's readership was presumably deciding which way to cast their vote in a tight election race. He tore Trump to pieces.

If that's slyly pro-Trump, I'll have whatever you're smoking.
Taibbi is a con

He'll say stuff that makes him look good

But his criticisms of Trump are always skin deep

He'll talk about Trump's "mental state" (in reality there's nothing to indicate Trump is genuinely mentally impaired), his narcissism, things like that, he'll utter shallow criticisms of Trump's racism and manner

The exact same things you'll read in the Wall Street Journal - safe criticism

Taibbi writes from a privileged white boy standpoint - what Trump has unleashed will never affect him

He's a shallow soap opera guy

But he won't do a proper dig into the structural factors around Trump, he won't dig into Trump's criminal ties and criminal past he won't dig into stuff that might really rock the boat, like how badly the Republican party is compromised

To him, Trump's racism and fascism is not really racism and fascism, it's a tiddling curiosity to be laughed at

To Taibbi, the real enemy is not Trump and the Republicans and the things that drive them like kleptocracy, white supremacism, science denial and kompromat - but Rachel Maddow, Sarah Kendzior, David Cay Johnston and Timothy Snyder, Wayne Barrett before them - people who are actually on Trump's tail for real and have a proper rounded understanding of what's going on

Initially I thought that was he was too proud to admit he was asleep at the wheel in 2016/17 about what Trump was, but now I'm not so sure, I think there may be more malign motives, I can't prove that, but I've seen nothing to make me suspect he and Greenwald have good faith motives
So no links provided to something Taibbi wrote in order to support your claim,  just Sid says 'Mat's a weasel who's slid down  deep into Trump's rabbit hole',  therefore he is.
Yes, that's exactly what he is - a weasel

Follow Taibbi and you'll find I'm absolutely correct - as I am about his fellow circle jerkers, Greenwald, Michael Tracey, Krystal Ball, Katie Halper, Jimmy Dore and Tulsi Gabbard

Read Taibbi's article linked to above - the safest, most non-challenging criticism of Trump you'll ever find

Which is exactly what he specialises in

That's the modus operandi of a weasel
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:13:16 PM
Taibbi denied the obvious

And yesterday the obvious reared its head

Taibbi is still in denial

https://twitter.com/themattdimitri/status/1312665824474218496

Matt Taibbi appears on Iranian state-owned, anti-Semitic Press TV, to deny that President Donald Trump ordered Proud Boys and far-fight extremists to 'stand by,' at debate
@PressTV
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:10:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 03, 2021, 07:46:50 PM
f**k this is some craic lads... literally no shame at all complete brass neck!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html

Career ending stuff which would dominate the headlines for weeks for any other politician.

Trump... another day, another story of corruption/abuse of power/bigotry/incompetence/lying etc., etc.

Someone is going to put a list together in a couple of weeks once Trump is out and we'll see again all the malfeasance we'd forgotten about given the relentless cycle of new stuff, each more outrageous than the last, every week.

Only a couple of days ago everyone was aghast at Trump threatening the GA Secretary of State to find 12K-odd votes for him.

How trivial THAT seems now!

So have we NOW reached the bottom?

Or will Trump literally have to go out and shoot someone on Fifth Avenue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2021, 02:10:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 03, 2021, 07:46:50 PM
f**k this is some craic lads... literally no shame at all complete brass neck!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html

Career ending stuff which would dominate the headlines for weeks for any other politician.

Trump... another day, another story of corruption/abuse of power/bigotry/incompetence/lying etc., etc.

Someone is going to put a list together in a couple of weeks once Trump is out and we'll see again all the malfeasance we'd forgotten about given the relentless cycle of new stuff, each more outrageous than the last, every week.

Only a couple of days ago everyone was aghast at Trump threatening the GA Secretary of State to find 12K-odd votes for him.

How trivial THAT seems now!

So have we NOW reached the bottom?

Or will Trump literally have to go out and shoot someone on Fifth Avenue?
There is no bottom

History is based on a succession of events which influence future events which influence future events

There's no telling where events can be knocked on to

But the logical end point is genocide and always is - so nobody should think that potential doesn't exist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 03:40:21 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Taibbi is the media equivalent of an internet poster who says "oh, but I have criticised Trump as well"

While in reality their whole agenda is slyly pro-Trump

He's a weasel

There's a bit more than criticism in that piece, written weeks out from an election when a good percentage of Taibbi's readership was presumably deciding which way to cast their vote in a tight election race. He tore Trump to pieces.

If that's slyly pro-Trump, I'll have whatever you're smoking.
Taibbi is a con

He'll say stuff that makes him look good

But his criticisms of Trump are always skin deep

He'll talk about Trump's "mental state" (in reality there's nothing to indicate Trump is genuinely mentally impaired), his narcissism, things like that, he'll utter shallow criticisms of Trump's racism and manner

The exact same things you'll read in the Wall Street Journal - safe criticism

Taibbi writes from a privileged white boy standpoint - what Trump has unleashed will never affect him

He's a shallow soap opera guy

But he won't do a proper dig into the structural factors around Trump, he won't dig into Trump's criminal ties and criminal past he won't dig into stuff that might really rock the boat, like how badly the Republican party is compromised

To him, Trump's racism and fascism is not really racism and fascism, it's a tiddling curiosity to be laughed at

To Taibbi, the real enemy is not Trump and the Republicans and the things that drive them like kleptocracy, white supremacism, science denial and kompromat - but Rachel Maddow, Sarah Kendzior, David Cay Johnston and Timothy Snyder, Wayne Barrett before them - people who are actually on Trump's tail for real and have a proper rounded understanding of what's going on

Initially I thought that was he was too proud to admit he was asleep at the wheel in 2016/17 about what Trump was, but now I'm not so sure, I think there may be more malign motives, I can't prove that, but I've seen nothing to make me suspect he and Greenwald have good faith motives
So no links provided to something Taibbi wrote in order to support your claim,  just Sid says 'Mat's a weasel who's slid down  deep into Trump's rabbit hole',  therefore he is.
Yes, that's exactly what he is - a weasel

Follow Taibbi and you'll find I'm absolutely correct - as I am about his fellow circle jerkers, Greenwald, Michael Tracey, Krystal Ball, Katie Halper, Jimmy Dore and Tulsi Gabbard

Read Taibbi's article linked to above - the safest, most non-challenging criticism of Trump you'll ever find

Which is exactly what he specialises in

That's the modus operandi of a weasel


Link please to an article he wrote which supports your claim. That should not be too difficult  for you, rather than me ploughing through all the stuff Matt Taibbi  wrote about Trump, media inc.  election campaigns, Wall Street bailouts, the economic divide since the days of Clinton, growing steadily through all terms of presidents since, the persecution  and criminalisation of the poorest Black citizens with petty laws, eg New York city., the 24 hour Bronx courthouses.  The switching of terms of duty for hundreds of thousands of social workers  into active fraud investigators  under the Obama presidency. Last interview with Thomas Frank.   Which article he wrote duly supports your extreme opinion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:45:27 PM
Did you read my previous post Main Street?

Why did Taibbi defend what Trump said about the Proud Boys in the presidential debate?

When everybody with even a barely functioning brain knew what Trump meant? We saw yesterday exactly what it meant

Why do you think Taibbi did that?

Why do you think he took the Fox line?

And why should somebody taking the Fox line on matters of white supremacist bigotry be given the benefit of the doubt about anything, when it's a matter of the most obvious moral certitude?

Crazy opinions appear in packs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:15:31 PM
Watch this from Taibbi, from today - talking to the execrable Krystal Ball - they're well matched

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oSf-kKv8hU&feature=emb_title

Pure bad faith false equivalence, both sides claptrap

A Putinist narrative if ever there was - "they're all as bad as each other"

Taibbi's narrative is that there's an equivalence between Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper

But there isn't - Hannity and Carlson are active fascist disinformation agents, Maddow and Cooper are not - they're actual journalists who inhabit a reality based world

CNN and MSNBC have plenty of faults - being a left/liberal equivalent of Fox is not one - their main fault is that they have offered oceans of free coverage to Trump, and particularly in CNN's case, much of it far, far too respectful and unchallenging

Yet Taibbi has been far less challenging to Trump than even the most unchallenging CNN coverage

Stuff like this YouTube clip from Taibbi provides zero insight and is designed to do just that  - it's just bland generalities designed to confuse, designed to broad brush everything - but that's simplistic snake oil

This isn't a both sides thing

One "side" is clearly way, way worse than the other

There is only one side which is trying to take down democracy and trying to incite mass race hatred, there is only one side to which facts are a mortal enemy, which has identified science as an enemy

Taibbi doesn't care about that because it doesn't affect him

This is really basic, obvious stuff, and Taibbi refuses to get it

And anybody who refuses to get the most basic, obvious stuff has to have a bad motive for not doing so - the alternative is that they are merely a moron

Taibbi's stance is pretty much the following

(https://can2-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/data/000/110/110/original/BewaretheMiddle.jpg)







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:27:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:15:31 PM

Taibbi's narrative is that there's an equivalence between Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper

But there isn't - Hannity and Carlson are active fascist disinformation agents, Maddow and Cooper are not - they're actual journalists who inhabit a reality based world

Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:45:27 PM
Crazy opinions appear in packs

I couldn't have put it better myself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:29:49 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:27:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:15:31 PM

Taibbi's narrative is that there's an equivalence between Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper

But there isn't - Hannity and Carlson are active fascist disinformation agents, Maddow and Cooper are not - they're actual journalists who inhabit a reality based world

Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:45:27 PM
Crazy opinions appear in packs

I couldn't have put it better myself.
You're one of the craziest posters on this site

You've a long record of Fox News style commentary

Your posting history reads like the rant by that woman who was shot in the Capitol building

This was a beauty

Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:49:59 PM

The first person to go to jail should be Ferguson.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 05:34:27 PM
Chuck Schumer calling for invoking the 25th amendment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:36:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:29:49 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:27:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:15:31 PM

Taibbi's narrative is that there's an equivalence between Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper

But there isn't - Hannity and Carlson are active fascist disinformation agents, Maddow and Cooper are not - they're actual journalists who inhabit a reality based world

Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:45:27 PM
Crazy opinions appear in packs

I couldn't have put it better myself.
You're one of the craziest posters on this site

You've a long record of Fox News style commentary

Your posting history reads like the rant by that woman who was shot in the Capitol building

QED. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:41:10 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:36:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:29:49 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:27:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:15:31 PM

Taibbi's narrative is that there's an equivalence between Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper

But there isn't - Hannity and Carlson are active fascist disinformation agents, Maddow and Cooper are not - they're actual journalists who inhabit a reality based world

Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:45:27 PM
Crazy opinions appear in packs

I couldn't have put it better myself.
You're one of the craziest posters on this site

You've a long record of Fox News style commentary

Your posting history reads like the rant by that woman who was shot in the Capitol building

QED. ;D
Troll play 1: Crazy person accuses others of being crazy

Troll play 2: Crazy person calls for people to be locked up based on nothing

The Trump playbook, brought to you by the Dunning Kruger Trumpist troll "five points"

Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:49:59 PM

The first person to go to jail should be Ferguson.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:46:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:41:10 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:36:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:29:49 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:27:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:15:31 PM

Taibbi's narrative is that there's an equivalence between Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper

But there isn't - Hannity and Carlson are active fascist disinformation agents, Maddow and Cooper are not - they're actual journalists who inhabit a reality based world

Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:45:27 PM
Crazy opinions appear in packs

I couldn't have put it better myself.
You're one of the craziest posters on this site

You've a long record of Fox News style commentary

Your posting history reads like the rant by that woman who was shot in the Capitol building

QED. ;D
Troll play 1: Crazy person accuses others of being crazy

Troll play 2: Crazy person calls for people to be locked up based on nothing

The Trump playbook, brought to you by the Dunning Kruger Trumpist troll "five points"

Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:49:59 PM

The first person to go to jail should be Ferguson.

Gosh if a barb at the Lockdown Pantsdown (in response to someone who wanted to lock up Matt Hancock  ::) ) is really the craziest thing I have ever written here, you are truly desperate.  ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:58:02 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:46:13 PM

Gosh if a barb at the Lockdown Pantsdown (in response to someone who wanted to lock up Matt Hancock  ::) ) is really the craziest thing I have ever written here, you are truly desperate.  ;D
A two line grunt, which is about standard for you - but nice of you to admit you're written crazier things - looks like you're finally realising what you are, which is good to know

The first step to reforming one's self is self awareness
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 07, 2021, 06:03:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:58:02 PM

A two line grunt, which is about standard for you - but nice of you to admit you're written crazier things - looks like you're finally realising what you are, which is good to know

The first step to reforming one's self is self awareness

That I most certainly haven't done. And there's nothing else in your little file either, except that remark of mine that was so harmless that nobody else on that lively thread last May ever mentioned it again.

According to you, it means somehow that I'm a crazy fascist, yet you let off the lad who wanted to jail Matt Hancock.

You ARE desperate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 07, 2021, 06:10:57 PM
Quote from: five points on January 07, 2021, 05:27:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:15:31 PM

Taibbi's narrative is that there's an equivalence between Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper

But there isn't - Hannity and Carlson are active fascist disinformation agents, Maddow and Cooper are not - they're actual journalists who inhabit a reality based world

Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 04:45:27 PM
Crazy opinions appear in packs

I couldn't have put it better myself.
as thread demonstrates .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:15:31 PM
Watch this from Taibbi, from today - talking to the execrable Krystal Ball - they're well matched

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oSf-kKv8hU&feature=emb_title

Pure bad faith false equivalence, both sides claptrap

A Putinist narrative if ever there was - "they're all as bad as each other"

Taibbi's narrative is that there's an equivalence between Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper

But there isn't - Hannity and Carlson are active fascist disinformation agents, Maddow and Cooper are not - they're actual journalists who inhabit a reality based world

CNN and MSNBC have plenty of faults - being a left/liberal equivalent of Fox is not one - their main fault is that they have offered oceans of free coverage to Trump, and particularly in CNN's case, much of it far, far too respectful and unchallenging

Yet Taibbi has been far less challenging to Trump than even the most unchallenging CNN coverage

Stuff like this YouTube clip from Taibbi provides zero insight and is designed to do just that  - it's just bland generalities designed to confuse, designed to broad brush everything - but that's simplistic snake oil

This isn't a both sides thing

One "side" is clearly way, way worse than the other

There is only one side which is trying to take down democracy and trying to incite mass race hatred, there is only one side to which facts are a mortal enemy, which has identified science as an enemy

Taibbi doesn't care about that because it doesn't affect him

This is really basic, obvious stuff, and Taibbi refuses to get it

And anybody who refuses to get the most basic, obvious stuff has to have a bad motive for not doing so - the alternative is that they are merely a moron

Taibbi's stance is pretty much the following

Nah Sid , nothing in that interview supports the description 'a weasel down Trump's rabbit hole'. Matt Taibbi is spot on as he usually is, he's a first class investigator with one of the most  respected backlog  of investigative and informative journalism, a commentary on  the major issues in modern society especially around the 2008 Wall St crash, the bailout, the causes of and ramifications  -  new levels of extreme economic inequality.

As usual you refuse blindly to listen objectively to opinions expressed (the linked interview). You're stuck arm in arm with that Snowball character in Animal Farm bleating  "4 legs good, 2 legs bad".
Extreme media bias in the USA is an acknowledged phenomenon. The image of CNN good / Fox bad,  is a cartoon for the gullible.   CNN is good for pro capitalist elite, anti trade union /workers rights as embodied by The Democrat Party, workers /country small town folk were depicted to be stupid and racist, Archie Bunker types to be mocked,the  deplorables.  Fox News  was just the first to break away from old media tradition  and pick the demographic that would swallow what they were selling,  their debased version of fake populism.

Every time Trump farts a tweet, the media  are all over it like flies to shite, it's  the era of click bait media..
Even when Trump is barred from Twitter, CNN is there reporting on a proxy Trump tweet.  Polarization is a money tree , CNN just couldn't  for once ignore a Trump tweet even when he's barred,   just to  pick it apart and be outraged.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 07:36:13 PM
The Democrats are "pro capitalist elite, anti trade union /workers rights"??

Seriously??



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 09:14:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 07, 2021, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 05:15:31 PM
Watch this from Taibbi, from today - talking to the execrable Krystal Ball - they're well matched

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oSf-kKv8hU&feature=emb_title

Pure bad faith false equivalence, both sides claptrap

A Putinist narrative if ever there was - "they're all as bad as each other"

Taibbi's narrative is that there's an equivalence between Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper

But there isn't - Hannity and Carlson are active fascist disinformation agents, Maddow and Cooper are not - they're actual journalists who inhabit a reality based world

CNN and MSNBC have plenty of faults - being a left/liberal equivalent of Fox is not one - their main fault is that they have offered oceans of free coverage to Trump, and particularly in CNN's case, much of it far, far too respectful and unchallenging

Yet Taibbi has been far less challenging to Trump than even the most unchallenging CNN coverage

Stuff like this YouTube clip from Taibbi provides zero insight and is designed to do just that  - it's just bland generalities designed to confuse, designed to broad brush everything - but that's simplistic snake oil

This isn't a both sides thing

One "side" is clearly way, way worse than the other

There is only one side which is trying to take down democracy and trying to incite mass race hatred, there is only one side to which facts are a mortal enemy, which has identified science as an enemy

Taibbi doesn't care about that because it doesn't affect him

This is really basic, obvious stuff, and Taibbi refuses to get it

And anybody who refuses to get the most basic, obvious stuff has to have a bad motive for not doing so - the alternative is that they are merely a moron

Taibbi's stance is pretty much the following

Nah Sid , nothing in that interview supports the description 'a weasel down Trump's rabbit hole'. Matt Taibbi is spot on as he usually is, he's a first class investigator with one of the most  respected backlog  of investigative and informative journalism, a commentary on  the major issues in modern society especially around the 2008 Wall St crash, the bailout, the causes of and ramifications  -  new levels of extreme economic inequality.

As usual you refuse blindly to listen objectively to opinions expressed (the linked interview). You're stuck arm in arm with that Snowball character in Animal Farm bleating  "4 legs good, 2 legs bad".
Extreme media bias in the USA is an acknowledged phenomenon. The image of CNN good / Fox bad,  is a cartoon for the gullible.   CNN is good for pro capitalist elite, anti trade union /workers rights as embodied by The Democrat Party, workers /country small town folk were depicted to be stupid and racist, Archie Bunker types to be mocked,the  deplorables.  Fox News  was just the first to break away from old media tradition  and pick the demographic that would swallow what they were selling,  their debased version of fake populism.

Every time Trump farts a tweet, the media  are all over it like flies to shite, it's  the era of click bait media..
Even when Trump is barred from Twitter, CNN is there reporting on a proxy Trump tweet.  Polarization is a money tree , CNN just couldn't  for once ignore a Trump tweet even when he's barred,   just to  pick it apart and be outraged.
You're clueless

Taibbi once did some good stuff

That time is long, long gone

He has been parody for a long time and is now pretty much an apologist for Trump fascism, as is his buddy Greenwald

As I have amply demonstrated above

John Pilger was once a great journalist

No longer, he's now a Putinist shill

When the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do, you dig in
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
Sid-LOL

So he was great when he agreed with you and now he's a cvnt because he presents a more balanced view
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 09:20:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 07:36:13 PM
The Democrats are "pro capitalist elite, anti trade union /workers rights"??

Seriously??
Main Street goes for crude, context-free reductionism

Nobody can disturb his "both sides equally as bad" Greenwald/Taibbi narrative of Fox = CNN = MSNBC

The biggest problem with CNN was the amount of free coverage they gave Trump and how they continually platformed Trumpists with inadeqquate challenge, they platformed the Nazi Richard Spencer FFS

Yet the narrative is that CNN is a "left-wing Fox News"?

There is no such a thing in the US

Where in God's name do people get this nonsense

Not from reality, anyway



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 09:23:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 07, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
Sid-LOL

So he was great when he agreed with you and now he's a cvnt because he presents a more balanced view

Again this is Taibbi's version of balance

Yours is considerably to the right of that - you've never made any bones about your love for racism, fascism, context-free propaganda and naked disregard for the truth

(https://can2-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/data/000/110/110/original/BewaretheMiddle.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 09:28:24 PM
Excellent article by Fintan O'Toole

What happened yesterday was always totally predictable - Greenwald, Taibbi and the other fascist appeasers continually poo-pooed the idea that Trump is fascist - Greenwald only considers something fascist when it presents a personal threat to him - as it does in Brazil - elsewhere, he's an appeaser

Trump needs to be removed from office now, ie. tonight, he has more earth to scorch yet

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/fintan-o-toole-trump-s-insurrection-has-been-advertised-for-months-1.4452191#

Fintan O'Toole: Trump's insurrection has been advertised for months
This was not a rush of blood to the head. It is the logic of a post-democratic Republican Party

Spare us, at least, the mock horror.

On the morning after the US presidential election of November 4th, The Irish Times ran a headline: "At 2.23am, the US president launched an attempted coup." This was merely factual reporting.

With tens of millions of votes still uncounted, Donald Trump had appeared on a carefully prepared stage bedecked with US flags and demanded that the counting be stopped and that he be declared the winner. The election was in the past tense: "Frankly we did win this election."

This was not a moment of madness. It was a show for which Trump had been running trailers for at least a year.

This was never a dark conspiracy. It was an undisguised insurrection. Trump's one great virtue is his openness. On September 23rd, asked whether he would "commit here today for a peaceful transferral of power after the November election", Trump replied, "Get rid of the [mail-in] ballots and you'll have a very peaceful – there won't be a transfer, frankly. There will be a continuation."

What more did anyone want? Read his lips: there will be no peaceful transition of power. Like every other autocrat, Trump understood the sole purpose of an election as the endorsement of his rule. Any other possibility could not be entertained.

Almost the entire Republican Party went along with this declaration of war on the democratic process; a majority of its congressional delegation actively supported it. And nearly 75 million people voted for Trump in the full knowledge that he would never, ever, accept the result of the election unless he won.

So what did they think he was going to do when he lost? There was no need to speculate. On December 19th, Trump tweeted: "Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election. Big protest in DC on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"

Over and over, Trump has made it plain that he would use every means available to subvert the will of the majority of voters and remain in power. What were those means? There were three layers of subversion.

First there was the courts. Trump believed his hand-picked judges, up to and including the three he had nominated to the Supreme Court, would deliver the election to him by invalidating millions of votes.

This would have been the cleanest kind of coup. But the judiciary baulked – not least because Trump's sabotage was too open, too crude, too unsubtle and, in the hands of his deranged lawyer Rudi Giuliani, too dementedly incompetent.

But Trump had two more sets of allies: the Republican Party in the chambers of Congress and the neo-fascists on the streets. This is an alliance he created and sustained precisely for such a purpose.

Again, the nature of this alliance was completely open. Look at the pictures from Wednesday of the leader of the congressional coup attempt, Missouri Republican senator Josh Hawley, giving the clenched fist salute to the mob outside the Capitol building.

Logic
This was not a rush of blood to the head. It is the logic of a post-democratic Republican Party that has given up hope of being able to win a majority in fair presidential elections.

Nor is this a passing phase. Even after the mob stormed the Capitol, a majority of Republican members of the House, including House minority leader Kevin McCarthy and House minority whip Steve Scalise, voted in support of Trump's bogus claims that Arizona's election results must be invalidated.

The only surprise about what happened on Wednesday, therefore, is that anyone can claim to be surprised. What do they think a post-democratic political party looks like?

There has been, though, a cognitive dissonance on the right of American politics. Conservatives think of themselves as, well, conservative – protective of established institutions and norms.

This has long been a dubious proposition: Watergate and Iran-Contra are merely the most egregious examples of Republican presidencies becoming actively criminal and flagrantly subversive of the US constitutional order. White supremacist repression of Black voting rights was not invented by Trump; it is a mainstream Republican tactic for suppressing the democratic vote.

Self-delusion
But the power of self-delusion can never be overstated. The mainstream right in the US has drifted more and more into the orbit of pre-fascist authoritarianism and lawlessness, even while seeking to retain its sense of conservative respectability.

It has become a political version of the Picture of Dorian Grey: suave men in well-cut suits retaining the outward veneer of republican democracy while, in the attic, the true picture comes to resemble more and more a Confederate flag-waving thug in combat gear.

That double game is up. The picture was readjusted on Wednesday. Respectable republicanism got a glimpse of its own true face and recoiled at the sight.

Yet here, too, there should be no surprise. This is what always happens with far-right takeovers. The suave men think they can use the demagogue and the thugs they calls patriots and "fine people", and dispense with them when they feel like it. They think they can keep the mob outside the door while they get on with the real business. Sooner or later, the mob comes through the door and openly occupies the space the suave men have prepared for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 10:13:11 PM
Timothy Snyder was very good on C4 News

His points:

Trump absolutely is a fascist and the Republican party is a fascist party

The "stolen election" nonsense is about criminalising black voting - black voters won the election for Biden, and in the eyes of the white supremacist Republican party, that is illegitimate

Ted Cruz cited the "1877 Compromise" as part of his bogus case to overturn the result of the election - but this "compromise" was a nakedly racist, apartheid measure, when the Reconstruction was abolished and federal troops were withdrawn from the South in favour of the era of Jim Crow

Yet Cruz thinks the start of Jim Crow was good, a proud moment of American history?

This is the essential abhorrent truth at the heart of the Republican party - they long for Jim Crow - and Cruz said the quiet part out loud

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2021/01/ted-cruz-is-a-big-fan-of-the-compromise-of-1877/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 07, 2021, 10:34:09 PM
Watching the 5 here on Fox News... poor Juan Williams is suffering the repercussions of a double mental breakdown ... Greg and Jesse have completely lost the plot they are not taking Biden's win well!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2021, 11:02:50 PM
I cannot stomach that Jesse Watters.

Even by Fox News standards, he is a smug, arrogant, slimy, racist weasel who elicits an urge to punch him in the face.

A talentless, uncharismatic, unintelligent nothing who made his name door-stepping unsuspecting people for Bill O'Reilly and crying foul when some other crowd did it to him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 07, 2021, 11:23:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 11:02:50 PM
I cannot stomach that Jesse Watters.

Even by Fox News standards, he is a smug, arrogant, slimy, racist weasel who elicits an urge to punch him in the face.

A talentless, uncharismatic, unintelligent nothing who made his name door-stepping unsuspecting people for Bill O'Reilly and crying foul when some other crowd did it to him.

Tucker Carlson is a pr1ck
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 07, 2021, 11:29:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2021, 11:02:50 PM
I cannot stomach that Jesse Watters.

Even by Fox News standards, he is a smug, arrogant, slimy, racist weasel who elicits an urge to punch him in the face.

A talentless, uncharismatic, unintelligent nothing who made his name door-stepping unsuspecting people for Bill O'Reilly and crying foul when some other crowd did it to him.
never a big fan of him and his collar up style , bit of a nordie look.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2021, 12:58:13 AM
(https://www.economist.com/img/b/1000/609/90/sites/default/files/images/2021/01/articles/main/20210109_woc365.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 01:12:41 AM
Tucker Carlson's hill to die on tonight is that he maintains the terrorists yesterday weren't racists

Last night he equated "pasty" white skin with innocence and black clothes with criminality

He only equated black clothes with criminality because even on Fox you can't get away with explicitly branding black skin as criminal - which of course is what he really means - and every viewer knows it


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 01:21:09 AM
Carlson permanently has the look of somebody who is about to go postal with an AR-15, possibly on his own family

All that money, yet all that deranged Nazi anger, sad



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 01:24:08 AM
Carlson once again deliberately trying to confuse entirely legitimate anger at centuries of oppression, official and unofficial racism and lack of accountability with fascists and Nazis trying to stage a coup against a president-elect who won a thumping democratic victory

Almost like he's a full blown Nazi propagandist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 01:27:23 AM
Dems getting ready to impeach him again.

As they should. He can't be allowed to skate scott free. If Pence and the cabinet won't do the right thing and he won't resign, then it's the only option. Otherwise, what's to discourage the next guy doing it?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 01:34:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 01:27:23 AM
Dems getting ready to impeach him again.

As they should. He can't be allowed to skate scott free. If Pence and the cabinet won't do the right thing and he won't resign, then it's the only option. Otherwise, what's to discourage the next guy doing it?


But will they actually do it?

Talk is cheap - they need to move now

Carlson now talking about economic structures and how poor people get a raw deal

Wot a larf

Like a great white shark giving a lecture on safety for swimmers at northern New South Wales beaches

"Swim with me, I won't eat you, honest"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 01:43:42 AM
A Capitol cop has now joined those killed.

Five dead now.

This blood is all over Trump's hands.

Correction: the cop is not dead; he's on life support. Hit over the head with a fire extinguisher.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 08, 2021, 02:06:51 AM
Trump is going to see out his term. However, any order that he gives will go through the secretary of the relevant department.

Impeachment will take too long.
25th Ammendment won't work because they do not have the support for it. Pence obviously has no interest in invoking it.

Trump is trying to self pardon.
He really doesn't know when to shut up. He has turned against the people who rushed everything for him during that insurrection
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:10:44 AM
Impeachment can be done in a day if the will is there

But the will is not there, which is rather depressing

It's all talk

Betsy De Vos the latest rat to flee the sinking shit, sorry, ship

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 08, 2021, 02:25:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:10:44 AM
Impeachment can be done in a day if the will is there

But the will is not there, which is rather depressing

It's all talk

Betsy De Vos the latest rat to flee the sinking shit, sorry, ship

All the democratic bravado is just a show. The president has done wrong but it would be damaging to republicans and America as a while if it happens.

I find it quite uncomfortable watching American news channels but interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 08, 2021, 02:25:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:10:44 AM
Impeachment can be done in a day if the will is there

But the will is not there, which is rather depressing

It's all talk

Betsy De Vos the latest rat to flee the sinking shit, sorry, ship

All the democratic bravado is just a show. The president has done wrong but it would be damaging to republicans and America as a while if it happens.
On the contrary, it would be hugely beneficial in the long run, there has to be accountability

Refusal to act means victory for the fascist coup plotters

Hitler was let off with a rap on the knuckles in 1923

Bit of a bad move to do that

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 08, 2021, 02:33:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 08, 2021, 02:25:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:10:44 AM
Impeachment can be done in a day if the will is there

But the will is not there, which is rather depressing

It's all talk

Betsy De Vos the latest rat to flee the sinking shit, sorry, ship

All the democratic bravado is just a show. The president has done wrong but it would be damaging to republicans and America as a while if it happens.
On the contrary, it would be hugely beneficial in the long run, there has to be accountability

Refusal to act means victory for the fascist coup plotters

Hitler was let off with a rap on the knuckles in 1923

Bit of a bad move to do that

I don't think I could envisage news headlines "President Trump removed from office" nevermind the potential for prosecution after his presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: pbat on January 08, 2021, 05:58:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 01:43:42 AM
A Capitol cop has now joined those killed.

Five dead now.

This blood is all over Trump's hands.

Correction: the cop is not dead; he's on life support. Hit over the head with a fire extinguisher.

Died during the night.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2021, 06:06:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 01:43:42 AM
A Capitol cop has now joined those killed.

Five dead now.

This blood is all over Trump's hands.

Correction: the cop is not dead; he's on life support. Hit over the head with a fire extinguisher.

What's the betting the lad that threw the extinguisher was also flying a Blue Lives Matter flag?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 08, 2021, 09:08:35 AM
Listening to the Radio this morn and Mick Mulveany (proper dose) but he reckons the next 4 years of Trump's life won't be worth living with law suits and congressional enquiries. It's something that'll go on and on and on.

Agree that there's very little time to get rid of him and it's really just about making his last 20 or days a living nightmare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:13:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 09:08:35 AM
Listening to the Radio this morn and Mick Mulveany (proper dose) but he reckons the next 4 years of Trump's life won't be worth living with law suits and congressional enquiries. It's something that'll go on and on and on.

Agree that there's very little time to get rid of him and it's really just about making his last 20 or days a living nightmare.

What's the saying, there's no bad publicity? He'll be fine, he's managed all these years to get away with things and being an ex president I can only see him making more money..

Film deals, book deals, all sorts of attention, he may move to an island but he won't disappear, he's had nearly 80 million people voting for him, he'll milk that for as long as he can
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 08, 2021, 10:23:58 AM
We know 1 MAGA intruder was shot dead by Capitol police, 1 policeman was murdered during the insurrection. What happened the other 3 who died?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 10:29:13 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 08, 2021, 10:23:58 AM
We know 1 MAGA intruder was shot dead by Capitol police, 1 policeman was murdered during the insurrection. What happened the other 3 who died?

They died of other issues? 2 women and a man.. problem had a heart attack or fell of the wall they were climbing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 08, 2021, 11:56:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:13:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 09:08:35 AM
Listening to the Radio this morn and Mick Mulveany (proper dose) but he reckons the next 4 years of Trump's life won't be worth living with law suits and congressional enquiries. It's something that'll go on and on and on.

Agree that there's very little time to get rid of him and it's really just about making his last 20 or days a living nightmare.

What's the saying, there's no bad publicity? He'll be fine, he's managed all these years to get away with things and being an ex president I can only see him making more money..

Film deals, book deals, all sorts of attention, he may move to an island but he won't disappear, he's had nearly 80 million people voting for him, he'll milk that for as long as he can

Dunno, Trump is pretty Toxic atm. Interesting to see the resignations now as well.... with only weeks to go.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 12:06:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 10:29:13 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 08, 2021, 10:23:58 AM
We know 1 MAGA intruder was shot dead by Capitol police, 1 policeman was murdered during the insurrection. What happened the other 3 who died?

They died of other issues? 2 women and a man.. problem had a heart attack or fell of the wall they were climbing

I read that one of the women was crushed in the crowd, the man had a heart attack and the other woman a stroke.

Regardless, five people, including a cop, now dead. All in service of Trump's fragile, immoral ego.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 08, 2021, 12:07:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 11:56:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:13:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 09:08:35 AM
Listening to the Radio this morn and Mick Mulveany (proper dose) but he reckons the next 4 years of Trump's life won't be worth living with law suits and congressional enquiries. It's something that'll go on and on and on.

Agree that there's very little time to get rid of him and it's really just about making his last 20 or days a living nightmare.

What's the saying, there's no bad publicity? He'll be fine, he's managed all these years to get away with things and being an ex president I can only see him making more money..

Film deals, book deals, all sorts of attention, he may move to an island but he won't disappear, he's had nearly 80 million people voting for him, he'll milk that for as long as he can

Dunno, Trump is pretty Toxic atm. Interesting to see the resignations now as well.... with only weeks to go.

He stabbed his supporters in the back with his comment last night. However, the press are making it sound like he was being forced to do it.

The guy cannot be trusted, it is always someone else's fault and the lawsuits that are incoming will see through his BS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 08, 2021, 12:07:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 11:56:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:13:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 09:08:35 AM
Listening to the Radio this morn and Mick Mulveany (proper dose) but he reckons the next 4 years of Trump's life won't be worth living with law suits and congressional enquiries. It's something that'll go on and on and on.

Agree that there's very little time to get rid of him and it's really just about making his last 20 or days a living nightmare.

What's the saying, there's no bad publicity? He'll be fine, he's managed all these years to get away with things and being an ex president I can only see him making more money..

Film deals, book deals, all sorts of attention, he may move to an island but he won't disappear, he's had nearly 80 million people voting for him, he'll milk that for as long as he can

Dunno, Trump is pretty Toxic atm. Interesting to see the resignations now as well.... with only weeks to go.

He stabbed his supporters in the back with his comment last night. However, the press are making it sound like he was being forced to do it.

The guy cannot be trusted, it is always someone else's fault and the lawsuits that are incoming will see through his BS.

Of course he was forced to do it. People are calling left, right and centre for 25th amendment removal or impeachment. Plus whatever may come later. He has no choice if there's a rational bone left in his body.

And he still didn't concede that he'd lost.

James Buchanan must be a happy man in his grave. His days as the worst ever president are coming to an end.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 11:56:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:13:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 09:08:35 AM
Listening to the Radio this morn and Mick Mulveany (proper dose) but he reckons the next 4 years of Trump's life won't be worth living with law suits and congressional enquiries. It's something that'll go on and on and on.

Agree that there's very little time to get rid of him and it's really just about making his last 20 or days a living nightmare.

What's the saying, there's no bad publicity? He'll be fine, he's managed all these years to get away with things and being an ex president I can only see him making more money..

Film deals, book deals, all sorts of attention, he may move to an island but he won't disappear, he's had nearly 80 million people voting for him, he'll milk that for as long as he can

Dunno, Trump is pretty Toxic atm. Interesting to see the resignations now as well.... with only weeks to go.
They're Nazi rats trying to save themselves, that's all

They had more than ample opportunity to repudiate the regime and the party and they didn't, they went along willingly with the lot of it

f**k them

And they'll be back quicksmart like the rats they are when the heat blows over



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 12:31:08 PM
145 of the 263 Republicans in Congress voted to reject democracy and embrace fascism

The party needs to be disbanded and treated as a complete pariah
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: north_antrim_hound on January 08, 2021, 01:04:07 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9125099/amp/Tucker-Carlson-turns-Trump-blames-president-U-S-Capitol-riot.html

Jeez the rats are jumping off the ship now

Fox News have to take some blame for this attempted Intifada but now they are trying to wash their dirty hands.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:09:55 PM
Will lawsuits come from the victims families of those who died? Can it be shown that Trump encouraged this and in so incited a riot that resulted in death?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 01:11:19 PM
Apparently Pence was a little upset with Trump.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/inhofe-ive-never-seen-mike-pence-as-angry-as-he-was-today/article_439af4ae-5082-11eb-96b1-53cf9e218598.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share (https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/inhofe-ive-never-seen-mike-pence-as-angry-as-he-was-today/article_439af4ae-5082-11eb-96b1-53cf9e218598.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share)

"I've known Mike Pence forever," Inhofe said Wednesday night. "I've never seen Pence as angry as he was today.

"I had a long conversation with him," said Inhofe. "He said, 'After all the things I've done for (Trump).'"

Pence is right about all the things he's done for Trump. He has literally and very publicly debased and humiliated himself again and again over the past four years in the service of Trump.

And now he's belatedly finding out, as so many others have, that the loyalty goes only one way.

As soon as Pence reached his breaking point i.e. he couldn't conjure up some imaginary constitutional justification to throw out certified state votes, Trump threw him to the wolves, who actually came in the form of the invading mob who were literally searching the Capitol building for him.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 01:30:49 PM
Pence must have had serious concerns, he must have been very troubled

Senator Ben Speinlisch-Flake's statement that he is deeply troubled is being hailed as true leadership
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 08, 2021, 01:31:50 PM
For American's that must be such a hard watch. Certainly since the 20th century they've seen themselves as the global light of Democracy and Freedom. Both on the left and the right. It's so far away from even what was conservative republicanism. The GOP will surely undergo a massive sole searching exercise. Who could lead that? Romney? Surely someone comes out of the pack. One thing is for sure the GOP have to unhook from the Trump wagon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 08, 2021, 01:47:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:09:55 PM
Will lawsuits come from the victims families of those who died? Can it be shown that Trump encouraged this and in so incited a riot that resulted in death?
no
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 08, 2021, 01:47:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:09:55 PM
Will lawsuits come from the victims families of those who died? Can it be shown that Trump encouraged this and in so incited a riot that resulted in death?
no

Its America, I though they sued for anything over there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 01:50:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 01:31:50 PM
For American's that must be such a hard watch. Certainly since the 20th century they've seen themselves as the global light of Democracy and Freedom. Both on the left and the right. It's so far away from even what was conservative republicanism. The GOP will surely undergo a massive sole searching exercise. Who could lead that? Romney? Surely someone comes out of the pack. One thing is for sure the GOP have to unhook from the Trump wagon.

If Trump were an anomaly, that might be easy enough to do.

But the GOP base CHOSE Trump from among what, 15 or 16 candidates. He was the culmination, the logical conclusion, of decades of GOP rhetoric and policy. They groomed their base to want him.

Then the party morphed into the Trump Personality Cult. They literally had NO policy platform this election beyond loyalty to the orange slug.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 02:06:49 PM
I read this earlier, via Twitter, in relation to "protests" in Arizona;

Another group brought a guillotine to the gathering, which they explained in a letter obtained by the Arizona Republic. The letter contained misinformation about the election outcome and voter fraud and expressed their feelings toward a potential war:

"You may ask why we are here, why do we have a guillotine with us? The answer is simple," the document read. "For six weeks Americans have written emails, gathered peacefully, made phone calls and begged their elected officials to listen to their concerns. We have been ignored, ridiculed, scorned, dismissed, lied to, laughed at and essentially told, No Ones Cares."

"Let it be known, if the Constitution, our way of life, and the Freedoms that we hold so dear are threatened by internal or external enemies, we will rise to the challenge and defend this great nation by all means necessary. While we pray for Peace, but we do not fear war." (ftp://ftp://Another%20group%20brought%20a%20guillotine%20to%20the%20gathering,%20which%20they%20explained%20in%20a%20letter%20obtained%20by%20the%20Arizona%20Republic.%20The%20letter%20contained%20misinformation%20about%20the%20election%20outcome%20and%20voter%20fraud%20and%20expressed%20their%20feelings%20toward%20a%20potential%20war:%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%22You%20may%20ask%20why%20we%20are%20here,%20why%20do%20we%20have%20a%20guillotine%20with%20us?%20The%20answer%20is%20simple,%22%20the%20document%20read.%20%22For%20six%20weeks%20Americans%20have%20written%20emails,%20gathered%20peacefully,%20made%20phone%20calls%20and%20begged%20their%20elected%20officials%20to%20listen%20to%20their%20concerns.%20We%20have%20been%20ignored,%20ridiculed,%20scorned,%20dismissed,%20lied%20to,%20laughed%20at%20and%20essentially%20told,%20No%20Ones%20Cares.%22%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%22Let%20it%20be%20known,%20if%20the%20Constitution,%20our%20way%20of%20life,%20and%20the%20Freedoms%20that%20we%20hold%20so%20dear%20are%20threatened%20by%20internal%20or%20external%20enemies,%20we%20will%20rise%20to%20the%20challenge%20and%20defend%20this%20great%20nation%20by%20all%20means%20necessary.%20While%20we%20pray%20for%20Peace,%20but%20we%20do%20not%20fear%20war.%22)

They've obviously veered way right from democracy. It's either their way or the highway. More people will die because of this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 02:06:49 PM
I read this earlier, via Twitter, in relation to "protests" in Arizona;

Another group brought a guillotine to the gathering, which they explained in a letter obtained by the Arizona Republic. The letter contained misinformation about the election outcome and voter fraud and expressed their feelings toward a potential war:

"You may ask why we are here, why do we have a guillotine with us? The answer is simple," the document read. "For six weeks Americans have written emails, gathered peacefully, made phone calls and begged their elected officials to listen to their concerns. We have been ignored, ridiculed, scorned, dismissed, lied to, laughed at and essentially told, No Ones Cares."

"Let it be known, if the Constitution, our way of life, and the Freedoms that we hold so dear are threatened by internal or external enemies, we will rise to the challenge and defend this great nation by all means necessary. While we pray for Peace, but we do not fear war." (ftp://ftp://Another%20group%20brought%20a%20guillotine%20to%20the%20gathering,%20which%20they%20explained%20in%20a%20letter%20obtained%20by%20the%20Arizona%20Republic.%20The%20letter%20contained%20misinformation%20about%20the%20election%20outcome%20and%20voter%20fraud%20and%20expressed%20their%20feelings%20toward%20a%20potential%20war:%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%22You%20may%20ask%20why%20we%20are%20here,%20why%20do%20we%20have%20a%20guillotine%20with%20us?%20The%20answer%20is%20simple,%22%20the%20document%20read.%20%22For%20six%20weeks%20Americans%20have%20written%20emails,%20gathered%20peacefully,%20made%20phone%20calls%20and%20begged%20their%20elected%20officials%20to%20listen%20to%20their%20concerns.%20We%20have%20been%20ignored,%20ridiculed,%20scorned,%20dismissed,%20lied%20to,%20laughed%20at%20and%20essentially%20told,%20No%20Ones%20Cares.%22%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%22Let%20it%20be%20known,%20if%20the%20Constitution,%20our%20way%20of%20life,%20and%20the%20Freedoms%20that%20we%20hold%20so%20dear%20are%20threatened%20by%20internal%20or%20external%20enemies,%20we%20will%20rise%20to%20the%20challenge%20and%20defend%20this%20great%20nation%20by%20all%20means%20necessary.%20While%20we%20pray%20for%20Peace,%20but%20we%20do%20not%20fear%20war.%22)

They've obviously veered way right from democracy. It's either their way or the highway. More people will die because of this.

The tactics of trying to occupy state capitol buildings and governor's mansions etc is taken from what the Russians did in Ukraine in 2014, when Russian insurgents occupied provincial state parliament buildings throughout Ukraine

The so called "Novorossiya" project of Russian insurrection had a flag which used the Confederate flag as its basis

The next thing they'll do will be to declare a People's Republic of Donetsk, sorry, Salem, or Forsyth County, Georgia

There is a serious cross pollination of ideas there, the international far right, of which Russia is the spiritual leader, are all heavily linked and sharing ideas

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.
It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 08, 2021, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

Teddy Roosevelt tried it in 1912 and it didn't end well, putting Woodrow Wilson into the White House. Trump will be 78 in 2024. He's done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 02:48:47 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

Of course he can set up his own party and run.

There are several third parties in most presidential elections, usually the Greens and Libertarians. Not sure they make it onto every state ballot though.

Teddy Roosevelt got a majority of the Republican vote in 1912 when he formed the Progressive Party (or Bull Moose Party as it was nicknamed). The split cost Taft his re-election and handed the presidency to Woodrow Wilson.

Ross Perot spliced off a chunk of the GOP vote in 1992, aiding Bill Clinton.

A Trump third party would obviously cost the GOP. Might be for the best though and bring them to their senses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 08, 2021, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards


;D

And you call me a fascist?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 08, 2021, 02:52:53 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

Trump will be totally bolloxed with dementia in 4 years time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 08, 2021, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.
It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: five points on January 08, 2021, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards


;D

And you call me a fascist?
Fascism is allowing criminals control the levers of government and continue to roam the streets

Convicting criminals is democracy

I am pro-democracy and pro-justice

I've read more than enough of your posts to know you are anti-democracy, pro-nihilism and pro-fascism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 02:59:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.
It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.

I don't think the Dems got luck with Biden; he was chosen specifically because he was a likeable, inoffensive, moderate who could beat the extremist, boorish, unlikeable Trump.

Had Trump not been on the other ticket, then the Dems would have looked for someone else a bit more vigorous, although I still think they would have gone with a centrist type.

As you say, this election was a referendum on Donald J Trump. All Biden had to do was let him at it. Stacy Abrams and the like took care of the details of getting people out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:04:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.
It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.
Who are they?

Romney is the only one who showed even a trace of a spine

There is little appetite for a bog standard Republican, that ideology has failed

But the so called "moderate" Republicans (an oxymoron) are actually the ones with the biggest cognitive dissonance, they are in denial about what their own ideology led to - Trump was the inevitable conclusion of it

A candidate like Romney will have a very, very hard time winning a Republican nomination for dog catcher in future, never mind a presidential nomination

The Republican base now are motivated almost entirely by hatred, which will also fail





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 08, 2021, 03:14:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:04:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.
It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.
Who are they?

Romney is the only one who showed even a trace of a spine

There is little appetite for a bog standard Republican, that ideology has failed

But the so called "moderate" Republicans (an oxymoron) are actually the ones with the biggest cognitive dissonance, they are in denial about what their own ideology led to - Trump was the inevitable conclusion of it

A candidate like Romney will have a very, very hard time winning a Republican nomination for dog catcher in future, never mind a presidential nomination

The Republican base now are motivated almost entirely by hatred, which will also fail

Ach Sid that's such a pessimistic outlook. Surely there are ordinary decent people who vote Republican who are tolerant and respectful.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 08, 2021, 03:21:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:58:10 PM
Fascism is allowing criminals control the levers of government and continue to roam the streets

Convicting criminals is democracy

I am pro-democracy and pro-justice

I've read more than enough of your posts to know you are anti-democracy, pro-nihilism and pro-fascism

There is nothing pro-justice about your call to "lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart". There is no justice in locking anyone up without a fair trial, based on an initial presumption of innocence.

Denouncing your opponents and their entire families as criminals and calling for them to be stopped from roaming the streets is textbook fascism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 08, 2021, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:04:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.
It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.
Who are they?

Romney is the only one who showed even a trace of a spine

There is little appetite for a bog standard Republican, that ideology has failed

But the so called "moderate" Republicans (an oxymoron) are actually the ones with the biggest cognitive dissonance, they are in denial about what their own ideology led to - Trump was the inevitable conclusion of it

A candidate like Romney will have a very, very hard time winning a Republican nomination for dog catcher in future, never mind a presidential nomination

The Republican base now are motivated almost entirely by hatred, which will also fail

The Kochs and the Ultra Right wing Tea Party movement were bedding in with the GOP long before Trump appeared on the scene.

Trump was the icing on that particular cake in 2016.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:49:13 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 08, 2021, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:04:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.
It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.
Who are they?

Romney is the only one who showed even a trace of a spine

There is little appetite for a bog standard Republican, that ideology has failed

But the so called "moderate" Republicans (an oxymoron) are actually the ones with the biggest cognitive dissonance, they are in denial about what their own ideology led to - Trump was the inevitable conclusion of it

A candidate like Romney will have a very, very hard time winning a Republican nomination for dog catcher in future, never mind a presidential nomination

The Republican base now are motivated almost entirely by hatred, which will also fail

The Kochs and the Ultra Right wing Tea Party movement were bedding in with the GOP long before Trump appeared on the scene.

Trump was the icing on that particular cake in 2016.
James Buchanan was mentioned earlier but there's a different James Buchanan who was the godfather of Koch Brothers type "libertarianism", he was a pseudo academic from Virginia who was incredibly influential

In the 1950s Buchanan came up with the ideas that led to a blizzard of far right "think tanks" and pseudo academic economic and legal "institutions" like the Hoover Institution at Stanford and the economics department at George Mason University and the legal department of the University of Miami among many others

These are the pseudo-intellectual driving forces of modern day American right-wing insanity

Buchanan's ideas came from a fervent belief that a white, property owning class should always hold the whip hand, his beliefs came from naked racism and belief in slavery - but his project was about denying that this ideology came from racism and belief in slavery

Buchanan was privately up front that the vast majority of people hated his ideas and the ideas of libertarianism, and that libertarianism inevitably led to tyranny - which he was cool with - as he showed when he helped draw up the Pinochet constitution in Chile, which has only just been done away with after four decades of mass democratic struggle

Buchanan was all about strategising - about how to dress up tyrannical ideas with "positive" buzzwords - "freedom", "reform", "liberty", "constitooooootion" etc. - he strategised about how to lie effectively - that is what American right-wing politics is all about - flagrant lying about the vultures they are - disguising a massive turd as a tempting chocolate cake

The Koch Brothers ran with his ideas wholesale - and in alliance with Murdoch media etc. this is how a hated ideology was dressed up as something positive, and tens of millions of people were lobotomised into voting against their own interests

The Koch Brothers' strategy was to put democracy in chains - ensure minority rule through mass voter suppression, then pack the courts to prevent progressive change in every aspect of society, to ensure corporate tyranny, flood the airwaves with armies of talking heads praising these disastrous ideas, mass propaganda, which would inevitably lead to fascist tyranny

Buchanan was certainly correct that the inevitable outcome of his ideas was tyranny, but as I say, he was totally cool with that, and so were the Kochs, and so was Murdoch, and so were those who went along with them all

We're now seeing that beyond any doubt




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 03:14:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:04:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 08, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.
It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.
Who are they?

Romney is the only one who showed even a trace of a spine

There is little appetite for a bog standard Republican, that ideology has failed

But the so called "moderate" Republicans (an oxymoron) are actually the ones with the biggest cognitive dissonance, they are in denial about what their own ideology led to - Trump was the inevitable conclusion of it

A candidate like Romney will have a very, very hard time winning a Republican nomination for dog catcher in future, never mind a presidential nomination

The Republican base now are motivated almost entirely by hatred, which will also fail

Ach Sid that's such a pessimistic outlook. Surely there are ordinary decent people who vote Republican who are tolerant and respectful.

If that candidate is available, then I 'd assume, based on the last guy, they won't win...

Id say there is a market there to get a Trump like character to take his place next time.

Look out for a  big social media, twitter , insta, FB person, with a lot of followers to take over from Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 04:00:04 PM
Dominion Voting Systems suing Sidney Powell for more than a billion for slander and libel.

Was wondering when they'd make their move.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TabClear on January 08, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: five points on January 08, 2021, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards


;D

And you call me a fascist?
Fascism is allowing criminals control the levers of government and continue to roam the streets

Convicting criminals is democracy

I am pro-democracy and pro-justice

I've read more than enough of your posts to know you are anti-democracy, pro-nihilism and pro-fascism

The point is not  whether Trump, his family and his cronies are criminal or not. In my opinion he was a dangerous, racist, bigotted and more than likely criminal bastard. However,  you dont get to decide that, its up to the proper processes. If you cannot see the irony in posting

, "and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart " and "I am pro-democracy and pro-justice"

within minutes of each other then that's a mindset that is hard to debate with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 08, 2021, 04:11:44 PM
Sid Waddell= Keith olbermann
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 04:14:41 PM
It's intolerant liberalism, a scourge on the world but amplified so dramatically on social media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 04:16:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

I have to say Whitey that whatever you're refered to here is not in the same stratosphere as what happened the other day! This is not about Dems v Reps, it's about an utter fascist running your Godly land!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 08, 2021, 04:35:13 PM
The cry-baby sore loser is not going to the inauguration.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1347569870578266115

@realDonaldTrump
To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th.
10:44 AM · Jan 8, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

I'm quiet because I have a very demanding job and Q1 is the busiest time of the year

I (for the 10000000th time) I am not a Republican

I'm a conservative....(think Mitt Romney/Charlie Baker types) I've explained what that means on numerous occasions if you want to go back and look it up

The Nazis (and some of them were actual Nazis) who invaded the Capital on Wednesday are just bad as the Antifa/BLM types who attempted to burn several cities to the ground last Summer.

They believe the myth of a rigged election in the same way the brain dead supporters of Hillary did 4 years ago after having being fed a bunch of conspiracy theories by their news outlets of choice

You seem to have a real hard time accepting that a wide swath of the American public despises both parties. Just because you despise one doesn't mean you support the other......you  just despise them less





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

I'm quiet because I have a very demanding job and Q1 is the busiest time of the year

I (for the 10000000th time) I am not a Republican

I'm a conservative....(think Mitt Romney/Charlie Baker types) I've explained what that means on numerous occasions if you want to go back and look it up

The Nazis (and some of them were actual Nazis) who invaded the Capital on Wednesday are just bad as the Antifa/BLM types who attempted to burn several cities to the ground last Summer.

They believe the myth of a rigged election in the same way the brain dead supporters of Hillary did 4 years ago after having being fed a bunch of conspiracy theories by their news outlets of choice

You seem to have a real hard time accepting that a wide swath of the American public despises both parties. Just because you despise one doesn't mean you support the other......you  just despise them less

This is false equivalence, irrespective of what Hillary's supporters did, it didn't result in an insurrection. This is the bit I don't think you see, what Trump has done to democracy is worse than anything in living memory in the US, there is no comparison. What the Dem's did some other time (or even normal Rep's) isn't relevant whatsoever to what's going on now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 04:56:49 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

I'm quiet because I have a very demanding job and Q1 is the busiest time of the year

I (for the 10000000th time) I am not a Republican

I'm a conservative....(think Mitt Romney/Charlie Baker types) I've explained what that means on numerous occasions if you want to go back and look it up

The Nazis (and some of them were actual Nazis) who invaded the Capital on Wednesday are just bad as the Antifa/BLM types who attempted to burn several cities to the ground last Summer.

They believe the myth of a rigged election in the same way the brain dead supporters of Hillary did 4 years ago after having being fed a bunch of conspiracy theories by their news outlets of choice

You seem to have a real hard time accepting that a wide swath of the American public despises both parties. Just because you despise one doesn't mean you support the other......you  just despise them less

This is false equivalence, irrespective of what Hillary's supporters did, it didn't result in an insurrection.

Nor was there any candidate-led mass movement, including half the Democratic party, refusing to accept the results of the election.

It didn't take Obama and Biden ten weeks to publicly announce that there'd be a new administration. Obama invitied Trump to the White House TWO DAYS after the election.

He said the following: "My No. 1 priority in the next two months is to try to facilitate a transition that ensures our President-elect is successful". This about a man who I'm sure Obama utterly loathed, both for the slander and lies Trump had spread about him, and for his poisonous and harmful rhetoric and campaign.

Whitey specializes in false equivalence. There's nothing sinister the GOP or the right can do which has not been equalled or exceeded, in his eyes, by the Dems and the left.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:13:01 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

I'm quiet because I have a very demanding job and Q1 is the busiest time of the year

I (for the 10000000th time) I am not a Republican

I'm a conservative....(think Mitt Romney/Charlie Baker types) I've explained what that means on numerous occasions if you want to go back and look it up

The Nazis (and some of them were actual Nazis) who invaded the Capital on Wednesday are just bad as the Antifa/BLM types who attempted to burn several cities to the ground last Summer.

They believe the myth of a rigged election in the same way the brain dead supporters of Hillary did 4 years ago after having being fed a bunch of conspiracy theories by their news outlets of choice

You seem to have a real hard time accepting that a wide swath of the American public despises both parties. Just because you despise one doesn't mean you support the other......you  just despise them less

This is false equivalence, irrespective of what Hillary's supporters did, it didn't result in an insurrection. This is the bit I don't think you see, what Trump has done to democracy is worse than anything in living memory in the US, there is no comparison. What the Dem's did some other time (or even normal Rep's) isn't relevant whatsoever to what's going on now.

That's you're opinion and you're entitled to it

The Democrats conned their base into believing that the only reason Hillary lost was because of Russian interference. He wasn't even inaugurated and they were plotting on how to remove him and their base went right along with it

Read "Shattered" by Jonathan Allen if you have a chance

This is from page 196.  Allen had unfettered access to people directly working for the campaign

"In other calls with advisers and political surrogates in the days after the election, Hillary declined to take responsibility for her own loss. "She's not being particularly self-reflective," said one longtime ally who was on calls with her shortly after the election. Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up. For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument. In Brooklyn, her team coalesced around the idea that Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary's own private-server imbroglio."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:14:19 PM
Quote from: TabClear on January 08, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: five points on January 08, 2021, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards


;D

And you call me a fascist?
Fascism is allowing criminals control the levers of government and continue to roam the streets

Convicting criminals is democracy

I am pro-democracy and pro-justice

I've read more than enough of your posts to know you are anti-democracy, pro-nihilism and pro-fascism

The point is not  whether Trump, his family and his cronies are criminal or not. In my opinion he was a dangerous, racist, bigotted and more than likely criminal bastard. However,  you dont get to decide that, its up to the proper processes. If you cannot see the irony in posting

, "and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart " and "I am pro-democracy and pro-justice"

within minutes of each other then that's a mindset that is hard to debate with.
So you agree that he needs to be dealt with

If he's "more than likely a criminal bastard", the appropriate place for those is in prison
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

I'm quiet because I have a very demanding job and Q1 is the busiest time of the year

I (for the 10000000th time) I am not a Republican

I'm a conservative....(think Mitt Romney/Charlie Baker types) I've explained what that means on numerous occasions if you want to go back and look it up

The Nazis (and some of them were actual Nazis) who invaded the Capital on Wednesday are just bad as the Antifa/BLM types who attempted to burn several cities to the ground last Summer.

They believe the myth of a rigged election in the same way the brain dead supporters of Hillary did 4 years ago after having being fed a bunch of conspiracy theories by their news outlets of choice

You seem to have a real hard time accepting that a wide swath of the American public despises both parties. Just because you despise one doesn't mean you support the other......you  just despise them less
For somebody who has "a very demanding job" you're always able to type out replies very quickly  ;D

You don't have to explain what you are - everybody can see exactly - you're a f**king disgrace and an embarrassment to your county and your country, like Fr. Neil Horan

Read back what you've just written about Nazism

And hang your fascist, racist head in shame

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on January 08, 2021, 05:28:04 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 04:14:41 PM
It's intolerant liberalism, a scourge on the world but amplified so dramatically on social media.

Plus 1, nothing sickens me more in the world right now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 05:30:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:13:01 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

I'm quiet because I have a very demanding job and Q1 is the busiest time of the year

I (for the 10000000th time) I am not a Republican

I'm a conservative....(think Mitt Romney/Charlie Baker types) I've explained what that means on numerous occasions if you want to go back and look it up

The Nazis (and some of them were actual Nazis) who invaded the Capital on Wednesday are just bad as the Antifa/BLM types who attempted to burn several cities to the ground last Summer.

They believe the myth of a rigged election in the same way the brain dead supporters of Hillary did 4 years ago after having being fed a bunch of conspiracy theories by their news outlets of choice

You seem to have a real hard time accepting that a wide swath of the American public despises both parties. Just because you despise one doesn't mean you support the other......you  just despise them less

This is false equivalence, irrespective of what Hillary's supporters did, it didn't result in an insurrection. This is the bit I don't think you see, what Trump has done to democracy is worse than anything in living memory in the US, there is no comparison. What the Dem's did some other time (or even normal Rep's) isn't relevant whatsoever to what's going on now.

That's you're opinion and you're entitled to it

The Democrats conned their base into believing that the only reason Hillary lost was because of Russian interference. He wasn't even inaugurated and they were plotting on how to remove him and their base went right along with it

Read "Shattered" by Jonathan Allen if you have a chance

This is from page 196.  Allen had unfettered access to people directly working for the campaign

"In other calls with advisers and political surrogates in the days after the election, Hillary declined to take responsibility for her own loss. "She's not being particularly self-reflective," said one longtime ally who was on calls with her shortly after the election. Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up. For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument. In Brooklyn, her team coalesced around the idea that Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary's own private-server imbroglio."

The Russians DID interfere. Effectively. Hillary was perfectly entitled to raise that issue. Trump explicitly asked them to do so FFS.

Any "plot" to remove Trump could only result in the ascension of Pence, so I do not see how that could particularly energize the Democratic base. Besides, Trump's rhetoric and policies were more than enough to mobilize the Dem base on their own. They should have been mobilizing just about anyone with a moral centre.

This is just more false equivalence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:32:12 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 08, 2021, 05:28:04 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 04:14:41 PM
It's intolerant liberalism, a scourge on the world but amplified so dramatically on social media.

Plus 1, nothing sickens me more in the world right now.
It's very instructive when you scratch the surface of some people just what they're willing to tolerate

In the case of bennydorano and Rudi, that includes fascism and Nazism



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:36:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

I'm quiet because I have a very demanding job and Q1 is the busiest time of the year

I (for the 10000000th time) I am not a Republican

I'm a conservative....(think Mitt Romney/Charlie Baker types) I've explained what that means on numerous occasions if you want to go back and look it up

The Nazis (and some of them were actual Nazis) who invaded the Capital on Wednesday are just bad as the Antifa/BLM types who attempted to burn several cities to the ground last Summer.

They believe the myth of a rigged election in the same way the brain dead supporters of Hillary did 4 years ago after having being fed a bunch of conspiracy theories by their news outlets of choice

You seem to have a real hard time accepting that a wide swath of the American public despises both parties. Just because you despise one doesn't mean you support the other......you  just despise them less
For somebody who has "a very demanding job" you're always able to type out replies very quickly  ;D

You don't have to explain what you are - everybody can see exactly - you're a f**king disgrace and an embarrassment to your county and your country, like Fr. Neil Horan

Read back what you've just written about Nazism

And hang your fascist, racist head in shame

I sit on hours and hours of conf calls every day-some I don't have to engage on.

And I read one to two books per week-mostly political/sociological

I read Shattered at the gym on my IPad as soon as it came out and all of a sudden everything became clear in terms of what the Democrats were playing at.....that one paragraph right there nails it.....directly from the horses mouth
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 08, 2021, 05:39:46 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 08, 2021, 05:28:04 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 04:14:41 PM
It's intolerant liberalism, a scourge on the world but amplified so dramatically on social media.

Plus 1, nothing sickens me more in the world right now.
Really that sickens you more than racism and that fascist shit show we have just witnessed in the US, never mind all the other shit going on in the world right now? Sid might be a bit frothy mouthed in some of his responses for my liking, but he has certainly been a hell of lot more right than wrong when it comes to what is going on regarding the march to the extreme right that the GOP has undertaken.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:41:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:36:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Lolz, and stupid cvnts like whitey, who has been curiously silent of late, are still wondering how Trump lost

I guess you could say people have had it with the bullshit of bigots like him

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: whitey on November 24, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
Can you imagine if Trump lost and his supporters started crap like this...usurping democracy, delegitimizing the president elect, Nazi-ism are terms that spring to mind

And the main stream media would be screaming for Trump to immediately and forcefully denounce their actions

And the stupid cvnts are wondering why they lost .....people have had it with their bull$hit

I'm quiet because I have a very demanding job and Q1 is the busiest time of the year

I (for the 10000000th time) I am not a Republican

I'm a conservative....(think Mitt Romney/Charlie Baker types) I've explained what that means on numerous occasions if you want to go back and look it up

The Nazis (and some of them were actual Nazis) who invaded the Capital on Wednesday are just bad as the Antifa/BLM types who attempted to burn several cities to the ground last Summer.

They believe the myth of a rigged election in the same way the brain dead supporters of Hillary did 4 years ago after having being fed a bunch of conspiracy theories by their news outlets of choice

You seem to have a real hard time accepting that a wide swath of the American public despises both parties. Just because you despise one doesn't mean you support the other......you  just despise them less
For somebody who has "a very demanding job" you're always able to type out replies very quickly  ;D

You don't have to explain what you are - everybody can see exactly - you're a f**king disgrace and an embarrassment to your county and your country, like Fr. Neil Horan

Read back what you've just written about Nazism

And hang your fascist, racist head in shame

I sit on hours and hours of conf calls every day-some I don't have to engage on.

And I read one to two books per week-mostly political/sociological

I read Shattered at the gym on my IPad as soon as it came out and all of a sudden everything became clear in terms of what the Democrats were playing at.....that one paragraph right there nails it.....directly from the horses mouth
You sound like Finchy from The Office

The reality is that Russia has deeply compromised large swathes of US institutions especially right wing America right up to the president and you're totally cool with that

As I said in my previous post, it's fascinating when you scratch the surface what some people are willing to defend, they're even willing to defend a country being run for the benefit of a despotic regime on the far side of the world

The monster really does lurk within unthinking people

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."
And she was absolutely right to

To reiterate:
Russian interference in 2016 was real
The fantasy of a "stolen election" in 2020 was fake - not real

You have a terrible time deciphering reality from fantasy

You have chosen fantasy, like the entirety of right-wing America

Right-wing America has chosen fantasy because it cannot win a single argument on any issue honestly

It's entire worldview is a total crock

Debating you is like debating somebody who insists the earth is flat

You are living in a la la land
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 05:56:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

That's all well and good.

But the problem with your attempt to draw comparisons is that Hillary was offering excuses and, presumably, raising what turned out to be legitimate concerns needing investigation.

What she was not doing was refusing to concede, asking Obama and the government to refuse to begin transition, constantly undermining the election process, strong-arming her party to contest the results, and steadily upping the stakes to the point of inciting the Democratic base to march on the Capitol, invade, and riot, causing five deaths, including a cop, on what has always been a day of pomp and formality.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

False equivalence again, not remotely in the same league as Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 08, 2021, 06:03:21 PM
Biden's speech yesterday
"The scenes of chaos at the Capitol do not reflect the true America.
This is not who we are"
"America is about honor, decency, respect, and tolerance.
That's who we are. That's who we've always been."

Eh Joe?  true America?  where the fck has Joe been all his life?  this is true America!  - that was white supremacy on parade.  It's the DNA  of America since the slaughter of native Americans  and the enslavement of Africans from post Civil War/Jim Crow, right through to this day,  exemplified by the red carpet treatment meted out to protestors  invading Congress, urged on by the president and hundreds of elected representatives. The protestors eventually were gently escorted out of the premises, not beaten black and blue, cable cuffed and dragged to a bus to jail.

I read that Trump announces he is going to snub the inauguration, Biden missed his golden opportunity to get his retaliation in first and  tell Trump he wasn't welcome, that his presence would dishonor the event.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 08, 2021, 06:07:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 08, 2021, 06:03:21 PM
Biden's speech yesterday
"The scenes of chaos at the Capitol do not reflect the true America.
This is not who we are"
"America is about honor, decency, respect, and tolerance.
That's who we are. That's who we've always been."

Eh Joe?  true America?  where the fck has Joe been all his life?  this is true America!  - that was white supremacy on parade.  It's the DNA  of America since the slaughter of native Americans  and the enslavement of Africans from post Civil War/Jim Crow, right through to this day,  exemplified by the red carpet treatment meted out to protestors  invading Congress, urged on by the president and hundreds of elected representatives. The protestors eventually were gently escorted out of the premises, not beaten black and blue, cable cuffed and dragged to a bus to jail.

I read that Trump announces he is going to snub the inauguration, Biden missed his golden opportunity to get his retaliation in first and  tell Trump he wasn't welcome, that his presence would dishonor the event.
Completely spot on. Can't believe that opportunity was missed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:08:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."
And she was absolutely right to

To reiterate:
Russian interference in 2016 was real
The fantasy of a "stolen election" in 2020 was fake - not real

You have a terrible time deciphering reality from fantasy

You have chosen fantasy, like the entirety of right-wing America

Right-wing America has chosen fantasy because it cannot win a single argument on any issue honestly

It's entire worldview is a total crock

Debating you is like debating somebody who insists the earth is flat

You are living in a la la land

Don't think so

A member of Clintons own campaign called it "spin" that needed to be "engineered" by her communications team

But believe whatever you want

Awomen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:10:56 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

False equivalence again, not remotely in the same league as Trump

Having half the country believe that Trump only got elected because of Russia and then spending 4 years undermining him ( a legitimately elected president) is on a par with what Trump has done IMHO

People no longer trust the media or the electoral process and that's down to the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 06:14:15 PM
Nah, I think Biden was right to leave the move up to Trump. As with the campaign, Biden doesn't need to do anything. Trump's got it covered!

There was no way in hell he was ever going to attend. He physically could not handle the humiliation.

Biden gets to stay out of the dirt, to act like a normal president. Trump continues to sully himself and his historical reputation.

The list of those who refused to attend their successor's inauguration is short. And he will forever be on it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 06:15:23 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

False equivalence again, not remotely in the same league as Trump
It's not just false equivalence - what Clinton did was what any actual patriotic citizen would do in the circumstance she found herself in

Her country was under attack and that attack tragically succeeded

Comey enabled that with his disgraceful performance, the guy was asleep at the wheel

America found itself landed with a monster

Time has proven her absolutely correct

She was correct with her basket of deplorables comment too, in fact she was far too conservative with those comments - Trump supporters are deplorable, every last one of them

There is one "side" to blame for America's descent into total madness and one side only - and that is the Republican party and its hordes of pseudo-academics and pseudo-scientists and pseudo-journalists and pseudo-"patriots"

Democrats fail like any other political party, they make wrong decisions and run with bad policies and have litanies of other failures - they consistently disappoint - but Democratic failings are always within normal parameters - they are not leading or participating in the charge to total madness

What right-wing America has unleashed is terrifying - it a wholesale rejection of objective reality

And right-wing politics across the world is descending into varying degrees of similar madness

As long as this is not understood by conservatives, it is totally impossible to debate with them

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:10:56 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

False equivalence again, not remotely in the same league as Trump

Having half the country believe that Trump only got elected because of Russia and then spending 4 years undermining him ( a legitimately elected president) is on a par with what Trump has done IMHO

People no longer trust the media or the electoral process and that's down to the Democrats

How many people died as a result of what the Dems "did"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:08:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."
And she was absolutely right to

To reiterate:
Russian interference in 2016 was real
The fantasy of a "stolen election" in 2020 was fake - not real

You have a terrible time deciphering reality from fantasy

You have chosen fantasy, like the entirety of right-wing America

Right-wing America has chosen fantasy because it cannot win a single argument on any issue honestly

It's entire worldview is a total crock

Debating you is like debating somebody who insists the earth is flat

You are living in a la la land

Don't think so

A member of Clintons own campaign called it "spin" that needed to be "engineered" by her communications team

But believe whatever you want

Awomen
Total projection

Your guiding life "philosophy" appears to be that of one off Simpsons character Brad Goodman, the "do what you feel" guy

That's the "intellectual underpinning" of the entirety of right-wing America now, a culture so stagnant, fetid, self-pitying and politically correct it is literally unbelievable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 06:30:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:10:56 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

False equivalence again, not remotely in the same league as Trump

Having half the country believe that Trump only got elected because of Russia and then spending 4 years undermining him ( a legitimately elected president) is on a par with what Trump has done IMHO

People no longer trust the media or the electoral process and that's down to the Democrats

Seriously.

After the past six months you blame the Dems for the lack of trust in the electoral process? ;D ;D

And in case you'd forgotten, the Dems had very little power for most of Trump's presidency. Basically a quarter of the Congress over four years. Trump's administration appointed the special prosecutor, and correctly so, to investigate the Russia allegations. GOP-led committees found that Russia HAD interfered in the election. And even when they did get the House, it took extreme circumstances for Pelosi to finally agree to launch an impeachment probe.

The Dems didn't make Trump refuse to condemn bigots and racists. They didn't make him encourage the same. They didn't make him target muslims. They didn't make him abuse the power of his office by trying to get a foreign country to announce bogus investigations of corruption on the part of his political opponent. They didn't make him alienate traditional US allies and cosy up, often at the expense of his own government, to strongmen and dictators. They didn't make him rip tiny children out of their desperate parents arms and ship them across the country. They didn't make him lie up and down about this, that and the other, each and every day. They didn't make him draw a ludicrous contour with a marker on a weather map. They didn't make him lie and distort and shirk his duties when a massive global pandemic appeared. They didn't make him try to use the George Floyd murder (which followed closely after two other killings of unarmed black people last spring) to inflame and incite the country. Finally, they didn't make him condition his constituency that the only way he could lose the election would be down to cheating, and then ride that claim all the way to a violent invasion of the Capitol building resulting in the death of five people, including a cop.

Either your judgement is extremely poor when it comes to weighing culpability, or you're just being argumentative for the sake of it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TabClear on January 08, 2021, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:14:19 PM
Quote from: TabClear on January 08, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: five points on January 08, 2021, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards


;D

And you call me a fascist?
Fascism is allowing criminals control the levers of government and continue to roam the streets

Convicting criminals is democracy

I am pro-democracy and pro-justice

I've read more than enough of your posts to know you are anti-democracy, pro-nihilism and pro-fascism

The point is not  whether Trump, his family and his cronies are criminal or not. In my opinion he was a dangerous, racist, bigotted and more than likely criminal bastard. However,  you dont get to decide that, its up to the proper processes. If you cannot see the irony in posting

, "and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart " and "I am pro-democracy and pro-justice"

within minutes of each other then that's a mindset that is hard to debate with.
So you agree that he needs to be dealt with

If he's "more than likely a criminal bastard", the appropriate place for those is in prison

I agree he has questions to answer under the justice system. Then, if he is convicted of being criminal he should be dealt with as set out in law. And as I said, in my opinion he is without doubt one of the most hateful men on the planet and I would hope he can be prosecuted through the legal system. But no, i dont agree that he should be locked up because someone on a GAABoard who is such a vehement critic thinks so any more than I think Hilary Clinton should have been locked up because a dangerous, racist, bigotted and more than likely criminal bastard said so in 2016.

My point is more towards your style of "debate". You have had plenty of feuds with people on this Board and while I probably agree with your views on a lot of these issues, in terms of your approach  you are every bit as intolerant of opposing views as some of the Fox News morons. I know very little about USA politics and would be interested in how people form allegiances to various parties over there, how the election works etc. However, this thread has been a car crash throughout probably the most important election in recent memory and in my opinion a lot of that is down to the way you antagonise and polarise people who disagree with you. I'm not planning on entering into a debate with you here about the need for fascism, racism etc etc to be called out. If a  businessman in Iowa votes for Trump because his company is better placed to flourish under Trump's policies than Biden, this does not make him a Nazi, fascist, racist.   As I said I probably agree with you on most of your principles, my issue is with how you approach it and how inevitably it causes any chance of reasonable discussion to descend into a slagging match between you and one of your numerous foes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 08, 2021, 07:03:06 PM
Agree with the previous post. I got labelled a fascist by that clown because I had reservations about Biden. He is honestly best ignored.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 08, 2021, 07:30:25 PM
The Washington Post has a new video of the shooting of Ashli Babbit. It shows more of the leadup to it and is about 3 minutes long

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 07:33:47 PM
J70

Joe kicked off his campaign with by repeating the "great people on both sides"  LIE and the media didn't pull him on it. Do you think that LIE was designed to unite or divide people?

Joe should have been hammered by the media on that-play the ENTIRE  clip for him on live TV and ask him if he wants to walk it back. The media didn't do it because they were repeating the same fvckin LIE. (or they were probably too busy asking him what flavor ice cream he ordered or some such nonsense)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jules on January 08, 2021, 07:42:22 PM
Do us a favour and stick your head in an ice cream
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:45:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 07:33:47 PM
J70

Joe kicked off his campaign with by repeating the "great people on both sides"  LIE and the media didn't pull him on it. Do you think that LIE was designed to unite or divide people?

Joe should have been hammered by the media on that-play the ENTIRE  clip for him on live TV and ask him if he wants to walk it back. The media didn't do it because they were repeating the same fvckin LIE. (or they were probably too busy asking him what flavor ice cream he ordered or some such nonsense)

What was the lie he repeated?

You're saying there were "great" or "fine" people along for Richard Spencer's United The Right rally to bring together neonazis, white supremacists and the like to protest a Lee statue removal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: dec on January 08, 2021, 07:30:25 PM
The Washington Post has a new video of the shooting of Ashli Babbit. It shows more of the leadup to it and is about 3 minutes long

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/

There's all sorts of wrong with that.

The cops abandoning their post 30 seconds before the shooting?

Then one of the rioters start shouting "there's a gun" and they keep trying to bust through??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 08:02:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:45:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 07:33:47 PM
J70

Joe kicked off his campaign with by repeating the "great people on both sides"  LIE and the media didn't pull him on it. Do you think that LIE was designed to unite or divide people?

Joe should have been hammered by the media on that-play the ENTIRE  clip for him on live TV and ask him if he wants to walk it back. The media didn't do it because they were repeating the same fvckin LIE. (or they were probably too busy asking him what flavor ice cream he ordered or some such nonsense)

What was the lie he repeated?

You're saying there were "great" or "fine" people along for Richard Spencer's United The Right rally to bring together neonazis, white supremacists and the like to protest a Lee statue removal?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/21/trump_didnt_call_neo-nazis_fine_people_heres_proof_139815.html


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 08, 2021, 06:03:21 PM
Biden's speech yesterday
"The scenes of chaos at the Capitol do not reflect the true America.
This is not who we are"
"America is about honor, decency, respect, and tolerance.
That's who we are. That's who we've always been."

Eh Joe?  true America?  where the fck has Joe been all his life?  this is true America!  - that was white supremacy on parade.  It's the DNA  of America since the slaughter of native Americans  and the enslavement of Africans from post Civil War/Jim Crow, right through to this day,  exemplified by the red carpet treatment meted out to protestors  invading Congress, urged on by the president and hundreds of elected representatives. The protestors eventually were gently escorted out of the premises, not beaten black and blue, cable cuffed and dragged to a bus to jail.

I read that Trump announces he is going to snub the inauguration, Biden missed his golden opportunity to get his retaliation in first and  tell Trump he wasn't welcome, that his presence would dishonor the event.

What Biden did there is basically what Leo Strauss, the father of neo-conservatism, did

He is perpetuating the myth of American virtue that neo-conservatives believed was essential for a cohesive American nation

Neo-conservatism was ironically founded based on opposition to individualism - but individualism has always been something that the Republican party has preached

But that individualism was only open to those of a higher caste, and certainly only open to whites - society for whites, ghettoisation for minorities

Left-wing politics believes, or should believe, in society being achieved through real individual freedom at a micro level but societal solidarity at a macro level, and the questioning and exposing of historical myths and lies

Conservatism believes the opposite - that historical myths and lies should never be exposed - and that societal solidarity can come from the perpetuation of those myths, these lies - but this is clearly wrong

Grand virtuous myths tie in completely with what I say about right wing politics and the fantasy world it subscribes to

But in America, belief in grand virtuous myths is not something that is exclusive to conservatives - it is widespread, especially among white liberals, and even many minorities who have absorbed this propaganda - like if you watch Rachel Maddow's programme, the perpetuation of American virtue is also a theme

Yet conservatism also preaches against societal solidarity

Conservatism also depends on a mono-cultural, mono-ethnic society, which is exactly what America isn't

Only a mono-cultural, mono-ethnic society can sustain national myths about virtue

There are huge and ludicrous contradictions everywhere in that ideology, it doesn't make sense

Biden is trying to perform a balancing act - he is trying to keep alive the myth of American virtue so order is kept - but in the long run, these myths will have to be faced up to and completely demolished if America is ever to have a real chance of being a cohesive society

Perpetuating the myth of American virtue is political correctness - right wing political correctness - one could say it's right wing political correctness gone mad

I think the essential difference between the way conservatives and liberals portray American virtue is motive

For conservatives, it's a DUP style apartheid ideology of exclusivity - for them, America equals white people in the same way that Ulster equals Protestantism - and they need to justify their own virtue through a flagrant lie

For liberals, especially white liberals, it's naivety, they have a naive, saccharine belief in the idea of American virtue, it's quite similar to how Irish people have a naive believe in the virtue of Irishness based on our own national myth

But liberals are forced into coalition with left-wingers, who correctly want to smash this myth of American virtue - this is a real tension at the heart of the Democratic party

America's problem is it never had a catharsis - it never had a mass facing up by the defeated, ie. the confederates and racists, that they were wrong, that they believed in something that was evil - so the evil continued

They never had to repudiate what they were in the way they should have had to

Germany at least had some form of catharsis after the Nazis and World War II - it had to face up to the fact it had embraced a truly evil ideology and committed almost unspeakable evils, and while this catharsis was not perfect, it was a million miles better than what America had, it brought about a sort of official honesty in that country that does not exist in America, where saccharine sentimentality and delusion about national virtue still reigns

America needs a catharsis to get over Trump and to get over centuries of evil

It does not "need the country to come together" - it needs truth

It needs the 74 million people who are brainwashed to become unbrainwashed

And it needs the criminals who have perpetuated the last four years of shame to be punished

Biden is a lot better than Trump but it's unlikely he will be the man to provide a catharsis, indeed it's unlikely that the Democratic party as it currently exists is the party to do so - because the centrists are afraid of governing boldly, unapologetically and confrontationally for policies and truths that are righteous











Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 09:15:32 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:10:56 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

False equivalence again, not remotely in the same league as Trump

Having half the country believe that Trump only got elected because of Russia and then spending 4 years undermining him ( a legitimately elected president) is on a par with what Trump has done IMHO

People no longer trust the media or the electoral process and that's down to the Democrats

How many people died as a result of what the Dems "did"?

LOL-well not for the lack of trying.  One of Bernie's supporters tried to blast a bunch of Republicans into Kingdom Come at a baseball game

Funny how no one was asking for Bernie to get kicked out of the Senate for inciting one of his supporters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 09:30:19 PM
Quote from: TabClear on January 08, 2021, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 05:14:19 PM
Quote from: TabClear on January 08, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: five points on January 08, 2021, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 02:47:38 PM

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards


;D

And you call me a fascist?
Fascism is allowing criminals control the levers of government and continue to roam the streets

Convicting criminals is democracy

I am pro-democracy and pro-justice

I've read more than enough of your posts to know you are anti-democracy, pro-nihilism and pro-fascism

The point is not  whether Trump, his family and his cronies are criminal or not. In my opinion he was a dangerous, racist, bigotted and more than likely criminal bastard. However,  you dont get to decide that, its up to the proper processes. If you cannot see the irony in posting

, "and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart " and "I am pro-democracy and pro-justice"

within minutes of each other then that's a mindset that is hard to debate with.
So you agree that he needs to be dealt with

If he's "more than likely a criminal bastard", the appropriate place for those is in prison

I agree he has questions to answer under the justice system. Then, if he is convicted of being criminal he should be dealt with as set out in law. And as I said, in my opinion he is without doubt one of the most hateful men on the planet and I would hope he can be prosecuted through the legal system. But no, i dont agree that he should be locked up because someone on a GAABoard who is such a vehement critic thinks so any more than I think Hilary Clinton should have been locked up because a dangerous, racist, bigotted and more than likely criminal bastard said so in 2016.

My point is more towards your style of "debate". You have had plenty of feuds with people on this Board and while I probably agree with your views on a lot of these issues, in terms of your approach  you are every bit as intolerant of opposing views as some of the Fox News morons. I know very little about USA politics and would be interested in how people form allegiances to various parties over there, how the election works etc. However, this thread has been a car crash throughout probably the most important election in recent memory and in my opinion a lot of that is down to the way you antagonise and polarise people who disagree with you. I'm not planning on entering into a debate with you here about the need for fascism, racism etc etc to be called out. If a  businessman in Iowa votes for Trump because his company is better placed to flourish under Trump's policies than Biden, this does not make him a Nazi, fascist, racist.   As I said I probably agree with you on most of your principles, my issue is with how you approach it and how inevitably it causes any chance of reasonable discussion to descend into a slagging match between you and one of your numerous foes.
First of all, there's a thing called a trial - Trump is a part of criminal cabal - charge him, convict him, imprison him and his cronies

I am not a political candidate or strategising about how to persuade people to vote for me or anybody else

Debating these issues honestly requires antagonisation - it requires the exposing of people's real views - and we've more than enough evidence over the course of both today's posting and posting over the last five and half years of what people really think, and whose views are sound and whose views are deplorable

There are a lot of home truths that need to be told - if that antagonises people, good

I do not believe these issues can be debated in a respectful manner - because the other side is fundamentally about disrespect, about ending democracy, about ending truth, about ending rights

These are deadly serious issues - the American Nazi Party is a grave danger - Wednesday was only the latest example - Donald Trump seeking to annul the election he lost was rationalised by Ted Cruz on the basis of the so called 1877 Compromise - the "compromise" which enabled Jim Crow

And that was cited by Cruz as a good thing

You cannot have a respectful debate against fascists

If a businessman votes for Trump because of his taxes, yes, he is prepared to put up with racism and fascism and Nazism

And yes, that makes him a selfish, deplorable shit

As is every poster on this forum who voted for or supported Trump 

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 08, 2021, 07:03:06 PM
Agree with the previous post. I got labelled a fascist by that clown because I had reservations about Biden. He is honestly best ignored.
You got called a fascist because you were laughing at children being separated from their parents

If that antagonises you, good

It might teach you to stop laughing at children being separated from their parents
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 08, 2021, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 08, 2021, 07:03:06 PM
Agree with the previous post. I got labelled a fascist by that clown because I had reservations about Biden. He is honestly best ignored.
You got called a fascist because you were laughing at children being separated from their parents

If that antagonises you, good

It might teach you to stop laughing at children being separated from their parents

I've asked you several times to show where I did this and you still can't come up with the goods.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 09:58:16 PM
A neat trick the fascists have is to engage in the dumbest sort of semantics over wordplay

Because outright, unequivocably clear statements of racism are classed as unacceptable, they try to cloak their racist language while still making it obvious what they mean

And they will argue to ends of the earth that what they mean is not what they mean

Fascists will always tell you what they are, and yet they will always deny what they are

It's a Putinist tactic - you what they mean, I know what they mean, you know that I know what they mean, I know that you know what they mean, you know that I know that you what they mean

Trolling, a sort of ironic post modern exaggerated performance art, is an integral part of the game

Like, the guys who did the Skripal poisoning, the joke they and the Russian regime played on the UK - though they were not literally telling you this but was obvious to anybody who watched it - was that they were a gay couple on a romantic weekend away - which of course was not the case, they were GRU men on a murder mission

It's all high camp

Trump is high camp and Trumpism is high camp

Tucker Carlson constantly performs post modern high camp - the other night he equated pasty white skin with innocence, and black clothes with criminality, because he can't get away with directly and literally calling black skin criminal - which is 100% what he meant - he knew all viewers understood this

This is what right wing politics is now - a giant big lie - of the sort practised by the Nazis

It is particularly suited to an online setting

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 10:13:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 08:02:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:45:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 07:33:47 PM
J70

Joe kicked off his campaign with by repeating the "great people on both sides"  LIE and the media didn't pull him on it. Do you think that LIE was designed to unite or divide people?

Joe should have been hammered by the media on that-play the ENTIRE  clip for him on live TV and ask him if he wants to walk it back. The media didn't do it because they were repeating the same fvckin LIE. (or they were probably too busy asking him what flavor ice cream he ordered or some such nonsense)

What was the lie he repeated?

You're saying there were "great" or "fine" people along for Richard Spencer's United The Right rally to bring together neonazis, white supremacists and the like to protest a Lee statue removal?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/21/trump_didnt_call_neo-nazis_fine_people_heres_proof_139815.html

Give me a break.

That was a far right rally, complete with the tiki torches "Jews will not replace us" shite the night before. Leading GOP senators even came out and unequivocally condemned it.

Look somewhere else in your desperation to paint Dems as evil and Trump as a victim.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2021, 10:17:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 09:15:32 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:10:56 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

False equivalence again, not remotely in the same league as Trump

Having half the country believe that Trump only got elected because of Russia and then spending 4 years undermining him ( a legitimately elected president) is on a par with what Trump has done IMHO

People no longer trust the media or the electoral process and that's down to the Democrats

How many people died as a result of what the Dems "did"?

LOL-well not for the lack of trying.  One of Bernie's supporters tried to blast a bunch of Republicans into Kingdom Come at a baseball game

Funny how no one was asking for Bernie to get kicked out of the Senate for inciting one of his supporters

Why don't you go ahead and show us how some action or words from Bernie encouraged or incited that guy to do what he did?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 10:24:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 10:17:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 09:15:32 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:10:56 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

False equivalence again, not remotely in the same league as Trump

Having half the country believe that Trump only got elected because of Russia and then spending 4 years undermining him ( a legitimately elected president) is on a par with what Trump has done IMHO

People no longer trust the media or the electoral process and that's down to the Democrats

How many people died as a result of what the Dems "did"?

LOL-well not for the lack of trying.  One of Bernie's supporters tried to blast a bunch of Republicans into Kingdom Come at a baseball game

Funny how no one was asking for Bernie to get kicked out of the Senate for inciting one of his supporters

Why don't you go ahead and show us how some action or words from Bernie encouraged or incited that guy to do what he did?

Cant be bothered looking for quotes, but I'll pull a page out of the Democratic playbook for you

By Bernie not publicly and forcefully calling out Democrats who made inflammatory statements hinting of violence towards Trump and his supporters, he is as much responsible as the person who pulled the trigger
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2021, 11:30:31 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwQpWqyr/Screen-Shot-2021-01-08-at-3-29-18-PM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 08, 2021, 11:41:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2021, 11:30:31 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwQpWqyr/Screen-Shot-2021-01-08-at-3-29-18-PM.png)


Jesus. This feels like a big moment in American history.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2021, 11:41:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:08:53 PMAwomen

What kind of man is still crying about this? LOLOL

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/04df6867455156ff57518bc5779f15d1/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 08, 2021, 11:43:15 PM
What did he post that pushed them over the edge?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 08, 2021, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2021, 11:30:31 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwQpWqyr/Screen-Shot-2021-01-08-at-3-29-18-PM.png)
good , Twitter is a very negative forum and is responsible for the decline in a lot of people's mental health , would love if it disappeared permanently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 11:46:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 08, 2021, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2021, 11:30:31 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwQpWqyr/Screen-Shot-2021-01-08-at-3-29-18-PM.png)
good , Twitter is a very negative forum and is responsible for the decline in a lot of people's mental health , would love if it disappeared permanently.
You're very bitter over this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on January 08, 2021, 11:51:16 PM
He was planning a video link this evening....maybe there were genuine concerns that he is on the brink and really couldn't give a damn. He is bat shit as are a lot of his followers and he is inciting as much as he can before the hammer falls. He should just go
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 11:53:06 PM
Murkowski has called on him to resign

Impeach NOW
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2021, 11:59:18 PM
Want proof that RWNJs can't read? That nutjob from Georgia who was obsessed with pro-Trump conspiracy theories and got trampled to death in the Capitol riot was carrying - are you ready for this - a "Don't tread on me" flag!

That's no joke!

https://www.rawstory.com/rosanne-boyland-capitol/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2021, 11:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 11:53:06 PM
Murkowski has called on him to resign

Impeach NOW

If he's impeached seemingly he can never again hold office, which wouldn't be a bad thing

I'm just waiting for him to declassify all the good stuff
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 12:01:50 AM
 ;D ;D ;D

Parler is going to be kicked out of the app store within 24 hours unless it starts moderating content

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErP47NZXYAIOBwr?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2021, 12:05:30 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2021, 11:41:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:08:53 PMAwomen

What kind of man is still crying about this? LOLOL

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/04df6867455156ff57518bc5779f15d1/tenor.gif)

Who's "crying" about it?

I think it's fantastic ( that people are so fvckin stupid)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 09, 2021, 12:06:49 AM
Does WhatsApp moderate content?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 09, 2021, 12:11:00 AM
Quote from: dec on January 09, 2021, 12:06:49 AM
Does WhatsApp moderate content?
I f**king hope not ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 12:13:06 AM
Some real quality content on Parler

Sadly for fascists Parler is down

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErLVht2VgAEMEj9?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 09, 2021, 12:21:19 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2021, 11:30:31 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwQpWqyr/Screen-Shot-2021-01-08-at-3-29-18-PM.png)
Four years too late but better late than never.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2021, 12:44:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 10:24:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 10:17:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 09:15:32 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:10:56 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 08, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Sid

Directly from a member of the Clinton campaign

"Instead, Hillary kept pointing her finger at Comey and Russia. "She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way," this person said. That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up-and-up."

False equivalence again, not remotely in the same league as Trump

Having half the country believe that Trump only got elected because of Russia and then spending 4 years undermining him ( a legitimately elected president) is on a par with what Trump has done IMHO

People no longer trust the media or the electoral process and that's down to the Democrats

How many people died as a result of what the Dems "did"?

LOL-well not for the lack of trying.  One of Bernie's supporters tried to blast a bunch of Republicans into Kingdom Come at a baseball game

Funny how no one was asking for Bernie to get kicked out of the Senate for inciting one of his supporters

Why don't you go ahead and show us how some action or words from Bernie encouraged or incited that guy to do what he did?

Cant be bothered looking for quotes, but I'll pull a page out of the Democratic playbook for you

By Bernie not publicly and forcefully calling out Democrats who made inflammatory statements hinting of violence towards Trump and his supporters, he is as much responsible as the person who pulled the trigger

More disingenuous crap.

Bernie did nothing, absolutely nothing, to compare to the shit Trump pulled.

Trump has the blood of five people, including a cop on his hands. He sent those fuckwits to the Capitol with orders to disrupt and intimidate. He unleashed a mob.

You're like a Paisley supporter denying any of his apocalyptic rhetoric was ever responsible for any trouble or death in the north.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2021, 12:49:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 12:01:50 AM
;D ;D ;D

Parler is going to be kicked out of the app store within 24 hours unless it starts moderating content

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErP47NZXYAIOBwr?format=jpg&name=900x900)

WTF is Rumble??

You'll be badly missed Levin, you nasty, humourless, charisma-free, nasally p***k. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 12:52:28 AM
Google and Apple have kicked hate site Parler off their app stores

Finally an example of capitalism working as it should
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 12:59:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2021, 12:49:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 12:01:50 AM
;D ;D ;D

Parler is going to be kicked out of the app store within 24 hours unless it starts moderating content

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErP47NZXYAIOBwr?format=jpg&name=900x900)

WTF is Rumble??

You'll be badly missed Levin, you nasty, humourless, charisma-free, nasally p***k. ::)

I don't know, is it something to do with WWF wrestling?

The first time I heard of Mark Levin was around the 2012 election

I had heard he was somewhat of an "intellectual", at least according to right-wing people on social media

I stuck on his radio show broadcast the day after the election

All I heard was the rantings of a madman, I'm not sure if he was drunk or off his head on drugs or not, I hope for his sake he was

I turned it off after about four minutes

I still haven't found anybody who can make any sort of a cogent intellectual case for American right-wing politics

The total intellectual emptiness of American "conservatism" is astounding

It seems to consist of nothing more than endlessly shouting "freedom", "liberty", "constitooooooooooootion" etc.

Politics by buzzword
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 09, 2021, 01:04:09 AM
I wish the news over here was as direct at American news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 09, 2021, 01:35:27 AM
He apparently tweeted on his POTUS account complaining about how the left wing is trying to silence him and to stay tuned....tweet deleted straight away. He is going to be going nuts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 09, 2021, 01:53:27 AM
Trump tv coming to a screen near you soon and this is only speeding it up .
Also anyone who thinks Trump will resign is dreaming.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 09, 2021, 02:16:00 AM
And your point is?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2021, 02:18:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 09, 2021, 01:53:27 AM
Trump tv coming to a screen near you soon and this is only speeding it up .
Also anyone who thinks Trump will resign is dreaming.

I don't think ANYONE thinks he'll resign.

Hence the articles of impeachment will be coming Monday.

He won't be convicted in the Senate, of course, but he'll deserve his place in history as only one of three presidents to be impeached, and the only one to be impeached twice.

Maybe Trump TV will come too.

However, if this week hasn't dealt a very serious blow to his brand, this country has a big f**king problem with a section of the populace.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 09, 2021, 04:10:51 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 09, 2021, 12:05:30 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2021, 11:41:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 08, 2021, 06:08:53 PMAwomen

What kind of man is still crying about this? LOLOL

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/04df6867455156ff57518bc5779f15d1/tenor.gif)

Who's "crying" about it?

I think it's fantastic ( that people are so fvckin stupid)

Rattled lolol - a grown man caring about what pronoun someone is called.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2021, 09:35:52 AM
Twitter/ Facebook are some c***ts too. They used him completely for 4 years. And now, at the death they dump him.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on January 09, 2021, 09:38:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2021, 09:35:52 AM
Twitter/ Facebook are some c***ts too. They used him completely for 4 years. And now, at the death they dump him.

Completely agree. They used Trump just as much as he used them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: TwoUpTwoDown on January 09, 2021, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2021, 09:35:52 AM
Twitter/ Facebook are some c***ts too. They used him completely for 4 years. And now, at the death they dump him.


Have to completely agree here. Despite despising the ground the POTUS walks upon, it doesn't sit easy with me that these huge social media outlets choose to silence him permanently. That is control to a level that I'm not comfortable with. Freedom of speech and all that mumbo jumbo...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on January 09, 2021, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2021, 02:18:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 09, 2021, 01:53:27 AM
Trump tv coming to a screen near you soon and this is only speeding it up .
Also anyone who thinks Trump will resign is dreaming.

I don't think ANYONE thinks he'll resign.

Hence the articles of impeachment will be coming Monday.

He won't be convicted in the Senate, of course, but he'll deserve his place in history as only one of three presidents to be impeached, and the only one to be impeached twice.

Maybe Trump TV will come too.

However, if this week hasn't dealt a very serious blow to his brand, this country has a big f**king problem with a section of the populace.
The capitol riots damaged Trump's brand and legacy enormously. Especially because (finally) so many Republican politicians turned against him and called him out for his incitement and incessant lies. The impeachment proceedings (or even talk of impeachment) doesn't double down on that, it starts to reverse it. A pointless exercise this close to Jan 20, that helps cement Trump's current support and will bring some of what he lost back imo.

The focus should be on repeating the words of McConnell, Graham and Romney over and over. That Trump has been lying to them about electoral fraud. That every Avenue they went down was thrown out of court. To reduce the % of people who mistakenly believe the election was rigged. It's a ridiculously high number, but only that high because of Trump's lies and the lack of GOP rebuttals.
Then the relevant authorities should be working in the background over the next 6-9-12 months to build a case against Trump, so he can be locked up for any crimes that can be proven against him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on January 09, 2021, 10:09:38 AM
The Impeachment articles are not about removing Trump but about damaging his legacy and causing as much damage to him post Bidens inauguration. They want him wiped from the history books essentially as a legitimate president. To be impeached twice along with any convictions will put him right up there with Nixon. The fallout for the Republican Party is unknown and how they react to this whole affair will have a major bearing on their future as a party. There are a lot of schisms appearing. They have their core base of supporters but the ones who came out to vote for Trump just because he is Trump are not necessarily GOP supporters, they are far right supporters and will drift back into the back woods just as quickly.

Biden will try to hold a steady ship and get through the first 100 days as best as possible. His main focus will be Covid and dealing with that. If he can successfully negotiate the next 3-4 months of that then he will be deemed a short term success. That won't be easy. The reality is he is keeping the chair warm for Harris so I don't expect anything spectacular from him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2021, 09:35:52 AM
Twitter/ Facebook are some c***ts too. They used him completely for 4 years. And now, at the death they dump him.
Should have banned him years ago - America wouldn't be in this situation if they had

No such thing as absolute free speech and nor should there be

You've utter fools like Glenn Greenwald making transparently bad faith cases that this is an attack on civil liberties

What utter bullshit

It's no wonder so called "libertarians" so often so turn into far right extremists - it's the logical outcome of that ideology -  absolute free speech leads to tyranny

Greenwald defended Nazis early in his career - as time has gone on, that looks less and less like demonstrating a point to try and prove a civil liberties argument and more like an actual political sympathy

Social media is the tool of choice for the far right, to let them run rampant on it has appalling consequences for the world

Narendra Modi of India should be kicked off it ASAP, he's even more dangerous than Trump, if that were possible

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 10:39:24 AM
Quote from: Hound on January 09, 2021, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2021, 02:18:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 09, 2021, 01:53:27 AM
Trump tv coming to a screen near you soon and this is only speeding it up .
Also anyone who thinks Trump will resign is dreaming.

I don't think ANYONE thinks he'll resign.

Hence the articles of impeachment will be coming Monday.

He won't be convicted in the Senate, of course, but he'll deserve his place in history as only one of three presidents to be impeached, and the only one to be impeached twice.

Maybe Trump TV will come too.

However, if this week hasn't dealt a very serious blow to his brand, this country has a big f**king problem with a section of the populace.
The capitol riots damaged Trump's brand and legacy enormously. Especially because (finally) so many Republican politicians turned against him and called him out for his incitement and incessant lies. The impeachment proceedings (or even talk of impeachment) doesn't double down on that, it starts to reverse it. A pointless exercise this close to Jan 20, that helps cement Trump's current support and will bring some of what he lost back imo.

The focus should be on repeating the words of McConnell, Graham and Romney over and over. That Trump has been lying to them about electoral fraud. That every Avenue they went down was thrown out of court. To reduce the % of people who mistakenly believe the election was rigged. It's a ridiculously high number, but only that high because of Trump's lies and the lack of GOP rebuttals.
Then the relevant authorities should be working in the background over the next 6-9-12 months to build a case against Trump, so he can be locked up for any crimes that can be proven against him.

Trump incited an armed insurrection against both the government of his country as they sat in parliament, and the result of the democratic election he was well beaten in

Anybody who cannot see that that requires impeachment and removal from office ASAP, well, I give up, the far right has truly become normalised with such people, their tactics have worked on such people

Failure to punish a fascist coup will likely lead to another one and will certainly only embolden fascists everywhere

"4D chess" DOES NOT WORK

Also:

https://twitter.com/BenCostiloe/status/1347657291819061250

For those wondering if it's worth impeaching him this time, it means he:
1) loses his 200k+ pension for the rest of his life
2) loses his 1 million dollar/year travel allowance
3) loses lifetime full secret service detail
4) loses his ability to run in 2024

Impeach, remove from office, trial, imprison
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2021, 11:29:21 AM
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on January 09, 2021, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2021, 09:35:52 AM
Twitter/ Facebook are some c***ts too. They used him completely for 4 years. And now, at the death they dump him.


Have to completely agree here. Despite despising the ground the POTUS walks upon, it doesn't sit easy with me that these huge social media outlets choose to silence him permanently. That is control to a level that I'm not comfortable with. Freedom of speech and all that mumbo jumbo...

He is free to speak as much as he wants. The government is not muzzling him. In the US, that is all the First Amendment applies to.

Facebook and Twitter are choosing (way too late, after years of abuse) to deny him the use of their platforms. Just like GAAboard can ban those of us who post abusive or inflammatory posts here. You sign up for their services, you obey the rules, otherwise they can kick you out, just like any private club or entity.

There is nothing stopping Trump publishing his thoughts on his own website or tv station or Parler or finding a newspaper or book publisher to carry his opinions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 09, 2021, 01:00:24 PM
We all know that Trump is a loose cannon but I am thinking Pelosi is trying to aggrevate him so he will do something else that is ludicrous.

On the otherhand she obviously has to do something considering that happened in capitol hill.

As much as I don't like Trump he certainly makes politics interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2021, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 09, 2021, 01:00:24 PM
We all know that Trump is a loose cannon but I am thinking Pelosi is trying to aggrevate him so he will do something else that is ludicrous.

On the otherhand she obviously has to do something considering that happened in capitol hill.

As much as I don't like Trump he certainly makes politics interesting.

If she does nothing, what is to stop the next president or other politician from setting a mob to work, ending in multiple deaths?

She is duty-bound. Her personal feelings are irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 09, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2021, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 09, 2021, 01:00:24 PM
We all know that Trump is a loose cannon but I am thinking Pelosi is trying to aggrevate him so he will do something else that is ludicrous.

On the otherhand she obviously has to do something considering that happened in capitol hill.

As much as I don't like Trump he certainly makes politics interesting.

If she does nothing, what is to stop the next president or other politician from setting a mob to work, ending in multiple deaths?

She is duty-bound. Her personal feelings are irrelevant.
read the middle part. She obviously has to do something but it's all for show. If anything shows how fuc*ed up politics is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 09, 2021, 01:00:24 PM
We all know that Trump is a loose cannon but I am thinking Pelosi is trying to aggrevate him so he will do something else that is ludicrous.

On the otherhand she obviously has to do something considering that happened in capitol hill.

As much as I don't like Trump he certainly makes politics interesting.
Pelosi has continually failed to stand up to Trump

Even now

This impeachment and removal from office should already be done and dusted

There are 11 days left and Trump can do terrible things in that time

If you wanted one reason why Trump should already be removed, Bernie Sanders nailed it - precedent

A defeated president nakedly incited an armed fascist coup against Congress and the democratic result of the election

It is incitement of an armed fascist attack against democracy, against America itself, the country he is supposed to be leading

It is totally unprecedented and it must be punished in the strongest possible terms

Removal from office should be a given and it should already be done, and imprisonment for the rest of his life should be a formality

That it isn't shows how much fascism has been normalised, how much the boundaries of what is considered acceptable have lurched to the extreme right - what Trump did on Wednesday was Hitler stuff, that's no exaggeration whatsoever
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 05:14:42 PM
Here's another reason he needs to be removed from office yesterday

Don't think he doesn't have the potential to do it, he is a desperate, wounded animal, with apologies to animals

Donald Trump's parting gift to the world? It may be war with Iran
Daniel Ellsberg

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/08/donald-trump-war-iran-tehran-daniel-ellsberg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2021, 05:37:01 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 09, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2021, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 09, 2021, 01:00:24 PM
We all know that Trump is a loose cannon but I am thinking Pelosi is trying to aggrevate him so he will do something else that is ludicrous.

On the otherhand she obviously has to do something considering that happened in capitol hill.

As much as I don't like Trump he certainly makes politics interesting.

If she does nothing, what is to stop the next president or other politician from setting a mob to work, ending in multiple deaths?

She is duty-bound. Her personal feelings are irrelevant.
read the middle part. She obviously has to do something but it's all for show. If anything shows how fuc*ed up politics is

I saw what you said.

My point is that it doesn't matter whether Pelosi is trying to provoke him or if she hates his guts.

Trump or the right cannot fall back on any claim she was being vindictive. There's no defense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 06:18:38 PM
This is long, very long, but for anybody who has the spare time and patience to read it it's a quite remarkable deconstruction of Trump's speech on Wednesday and the almost unbelievably sinister, inciteful, pretty much murderous nature of it - and the very planned nature of what followed

Quite remarkable how Pence is now public enemy number one for Trumpists and if anything demonstrates the overhwhelmingly fascist nature of Trumpism, it's that

If you flick into thedonald.win, a bottomless cesspit of a forum, the extreme of the extreme are now even turning on Trump himself

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1347908845281095680
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 11:00:04 PM
Official letter from the Chairman of the Nye County, Nevada Republican Party

It goes on a lot longer than the quoted part

The purest insanity

https://nyegop.org/2021/01/08/a-letter-from-the-chairman/?v=7516fd43adaa

QuoteJanuary 8, 2021
As I write to you today, I have no doubt that this letter will find many of you crushed under the weight of despair or perhaps lost in a maze of confusion. It is my hope that by the time you finish reading this letter you will be able to confidently join millions of others who support the president and another four years.

Let me be clear: Trump will be president for another four years. Biden will not be president. Yes, I know those are shocking words in these crazy days.

I have been approached by many saying, "It's over..." and "Trump conceded the election...". Nothing of the sort has taken place. Go back and listen to the videos all the way through. At no point does Trump even mention Biden's name. At no point does he say he concedes. He does say that there will be a peaceful transition to a new administration and he does say that this is only the beginning. Those phrases are important to note. Indeed, we will have a new administration made up of a new vice president and cabinet as the current ones have all made their treason complete. I will touch on this in more detail shortly.

We do well to remember that for more than four years Donald Trump has been five steps ahead of everyone in every attempt to derail him, impeach him, or confound him. For example, he announced on election night in the early hours of the morning that he "didn't want a dump of ballots at 4AM." What happened in just a few short hours at almost exactly 4AM? A huge ballot dump took place which showed that he already knew that it was going to take place. That was a public word to the enemies of our country that he was on to them. Also, consider the recent incident at the capitol building in DC. Trump was late to his speaking engagement and then spoke on a number of rehashed things to the crowd of 500K+ but this created a problem. You see, if Trump had spoken on time and briefly, the MAGA crowd would have been at the capitol building with the Antifa faction and likely would have been drawn into the fray by accident and confusion due to the crowd size. With Trump speaking late and long, the MAGA crowd was PROTECTED and SEPARATED from the Antifa groups. It would be very clear that the disguised Antifa people were 95%+ of the people in the building. Again, Trump countered because he was steps ahead of them. This was clearly a staged event meant to blame Trump supporters and try to frame Trump so the 25th amendment could be used by Congress but it failed. Nevermind the numerous videos showing the police opening the gates for Antifa (they didn't fight their way in) and then leading them throughout the building.

Continues

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 11:13:29 PM
Parler will have to make up its mind whether it's favour of free speech or not, because free speech means assassination threats, and any assassination threats by fascists should be taken deadly seriously

Maybe arch "defender of free speech" Glenn Greenwald could weigh in here

https://www.thedailybeast.com/parler-deletes-lin-woods-posts-calling-for-pences-assassination?via=twitter_page

QuoteParler, the self-described "free speech social media network," has removed several "parleys" from Trump-loving lawyer Lin Wood that spouted baseless conspiracy theories and called for the assassination of Mike Pence. ("Get the firing squads ready. Pence goes FIRST," one such message read.) Parler CEO John Matze told Mediate the company had removed the parleys for violating its rules.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2021, 11:23:33 AM
Quote from: Hound on January 09, 2021, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2021, 02:18:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 09, 2021, 01:53:27 AM
Trump tv coming to a screen near you soon and this is only speeding it up .
Also anyone who thinks Trump will resign is dreaming.

I don't think ANYONE thinks he'll resign.

Hence the articles of impeachment will be coming Monday.

He won't be convicted in the Senate, of course, but he'll deserve his place in history as only one of three presidents to be impeached, and the only one to be impeached twice.

Maybe Trump TV will come too.

However, if this week hasn't dealt a very serious blow to his brand, this country has a big f**king problem with a section of the populace.
The capitol riots damaged Trump's brand and legacy enormously. Especially because (finally) so many Republican politicians turned against him and called him out for his incitement and incessant lies. The impeachment proceedings (or even talk of impeachment) doesn't double down on that, it starts to reverse it. A pointless exercise this close to Jan 20, that helps cement Trump's current support and will bring some of what he lost back imo.

The focus should be on repeating the words of McConnell, Graham and Romney over and over. That Trump has been lying to them about electoral fraud. That every Avenue they went down was thrown out of court. To reduce the % of people who mistakenly believe the election was rigged. It's a ridiculously high number, but only that high because of Trump's lies and the lack of GOP rebuttals.
Then the relevant authorities should be working in the background over the next 6-9-12 months to build a case against Trump, so he can be locked up for any crimes that can be proven against him.

Trump is the glue holding the base to the party
As long as they were winning, McConnell and co turned a blind eye.  The GOP deserve this crisis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 11:00:04 PM
Official letter from the Chairman of the Nye County, Nevada Republican Party

It goes on a lot longer than the quoted part

The purest insanity

https://nyegop.org/2021/01/08/a-letter-from-the-chairman/?v=7516fd43adaa

QuoteJanuary 8, 2021
As I write to you today, I have no doubt that this letter will find many of you crushed under the weight of despair or perhaps lost in a maze of confusion. It is my hope that by the time you finish reading this letter you will be able to confidently join millions of others who support the president and another four years.

Let me be clear: Trump will be president for another four years. Biden will not be president. Yes, I know those are shocking words in these crazy days.

I have been approached by many saying, "It's over..." and "Trump conceded the election...". Nothing of the sort has taken place. Go back and listen to the videos all the way through. At no point does Trump even mention Biden's name. At no point does he say he concedes. He does say that there will be a peaceful transition to a new administration and he does say that this is only the beginning. Those phrases are important to note. Indeed, we will have a new administration made up of a new vice president and cabinet as the current ones have all made their treason complete. I will touch on this in more detail shortly.

We do well to remember that for more than four years Donald Trump has been five steps ahead of everyone in every attempt to derail him, impeach him, or confound him. For example, he announced on election night in the early hours of the morning that he "didn't want a dump of ballots at 4AM." What happened in just a few short hours at almost exactly 4AM? A huge ballot dump took place which showed that he already knew that it was going to take place. That was a public word to the enemies of our country that he was on to them. Also, consider the recent incident at the capitol building in DC. Trump was late to his speaking engagement and then spoke on a number of rehashed things to the crowd of 500K+ but this created a problem. You see, if Trump had spoken on time and briefly, the MAGA crowd would have been at the capitol building with the Antifa faction and likely would have been drawn into the fray by accident and confusion due to the crowd size. With Trump speaking late and long, the MAGA crowd was PROTECTED and SEPARATED from the Antifa groups. It would be very clear that the disguised Antifa people were 95%+ of the people in the building. Again, Trump countered because he was steps ahead of them. This was clearly a staged event meant to blame Trump supporters and try to frame Trump so the 25th amendment could be used by Congress but it failed. Nevermind the numerous videos showing the police opening the gates for Antifa (they didn't fight their way in) and then leading them throughout the building.

Continues


This is what constitutes the party of Lincoln today.

Congratulations Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Pat Buchanan, Pat Robertson, even Karl Rove and the likes of Mitch McConnell.

You created this monster.

Rove, McConnell, Boehner, Ryan, Cantor and all the rest of the "sane" GOP leadership of the past decade or so: you indulged the birtherism, you harnessed the bigotry, superstition and anti-intellectualism to your own ends.

Now you've got a f**king insane rabble in control of your party and threatening the stability of the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on January 10, 2021, 03:00:31 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-why-were-holding-those-who-lied-for-trump-accountable/?sh=113dae4a5710 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-why-were-holding-those-who-lied-for-trump-accountable/?sh=113dae4a5710)

Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump's fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie. We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet. Want to ensure the world's biggest business media brand approaches you as a potential funnel of disinformation? Then hire away.] Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump's fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie. We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet. Want to ensure the world's biggest business media brand approaches you as a potential funnel of disinformation? Then hire away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on January 10, 2021, 03:37:37 PM
America needs to reset. Its become the laughing stock of the world. Trump has ran its reputation into the ground.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2021, 03:58:31 PM
Quote from: blasmere on January 10, 2021, 03:00:31 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-why-were-holding-those-who-lied-for-trump-accountable/?sh=113dae4a5710 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-why-were-holding-those-who-lied-for-trump-accountable/?sh=113dae4a5710)

Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump's fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie. We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet. Want to ensure the world's biggest business media brand approaches you as a potential funnel of disinformation? Then hire away.] Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump's fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie. We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet. Want to ensure the world's biggest business media brand approaches you as a potential funnel of disinformation? Then hire away.

From Forbes no less.

We're not talking bleeding heart, lefty liberals here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 10, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
Trump's fascist goons shouted "Hang Mike Pence", they even had an actual gallows and rope on the scene

Had those bastards reached the chamber, they would almost certainly have killed politicians, AOC and Pelosi would likely have been literally lynched

It's an unbelievable indictment of the US body politic in general however that Trump has not already been removed from office and held in custody until his trial

The inertia and paralysis seems total, apart from shining lights of moral clarity like AOC who actually realise what is going on

Trump instigated, planned and incited that attempted fascist coup

He declared war against his own country and against democracy

A second Capitol Police officer has now died

6 dead and still no impeachment of the man who caused this, it's almost unbelievable

The historical significance of this will reverberate for decades

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
The GOP seem to be hoping it will fade away from the news as the days go by.

Some of them also talking about "healing", by which they mean the Dems would hinder that by Trump being held to account. See the idiotic Michael Goodwin in the NY Post.

Dems need to hold their resolve and impeach tomorrow. Should have been done this weekend.

If McConnell won't bring the Senate back, then finish to the job under Schumer after the 20th.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2021, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
The GOP seem to be hoping it will fade away from the news as the days go by.

Some of them also talking about "healing", by which they mean the Dems would hinder that by Trump being held to account. See the idiotic Michael Goodwin in the NY Post.

Dems need to hold their resolve and impeach tomorrow. Should have been done this weekend.

If McConnell won't bring the Senate back, then finish to the job under Schumer after the 20th.

Can he be impeached after he leaves office?

I thought the point of impeachment was to remove someone from office
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2021, 07:10:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2021, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
The GOP seem to be hoping it will fade away from the news as the days go by.

Some of them also talking about "healing", by which they mean the Dems would hinder that by Trump being held to account. See the idiotic Michael Goodwin in the NY Post.

Dems need to hold their resolve and impeach tomorrow. Should have been done this weekend.

If McConnell won't bring the Senate back, then finish to the job under Schumer after the 20th.

Can he be impeached after he leaves office?

I thought the point of impeachment was to remove someone from office
He can. To prevent him from running again. Pour encourager les autres
And this is why GA was a GOP catastrophe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on January 10, 2021, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2021, 07:10:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2021, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
The GOP seem to be hoping it will fade away from the news as the days go by.

Some of them also talking about "healing", by which they mean the Dems would hinder that by Trump being held to account. See the idiotic Michael Goodwin in the NY Post.

Dems need to hold their resolve and impeach tomorrow. Should have been done this weekend.

If McConnell won't bring the Senate back, then finish to the job under Schumer after the 20th.

Can he be impeached after he leaves office?

I thought the point of impeachment was to remove someone from office
He can. To prevent him from running again. Pour encourager les autres
And this is why GA was a GOP catastrophe

There's precedent for people having been impeached after leaving office, but at cabinet level. Impacts on ability to run again, pension rights, security rights and a few other things. It could become a distraction for Biden in first 100 days but some may feel it is necessary to make the point
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 10, 2021, 09:01:22 PM
Shouldn't take the Senate too long to rule once he is impeached by the House.  Democratic control of the Senate means McConnell can't block an issue from coming on to the floor.  And there'll either be the 17 Republicans voting to convict, or there won't.  Can't see much time being used up to persuade anyone with their mind already made up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2021, 09:01:34 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 10, 2021, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2021, 07:10:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2021, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
The GOP seem to be hoping it will fade away from the news as the days go by.

Some of them also talking about "healing", by which they mean the Dems would hinder that by Trump being held to account. See the idiotic Michael Goodwin in the NY Post.

Dems need to hold their resolve and impeach tomorrow. Should have been done this weekend.

If McConnell won't bring the Senate back, then finish to the job under Schumer after the 20th.

Can he be impeached after he leaves office?

I thought the point of impeachment was to remove someone from office
He can. To prevent him from running again. Pour encourager les autres
And this is why GA was a GOP catastrophe

There's precedent for people having been impeached after leaving office, but at cabinet level. Impacts on ability to run again, pension rights, security rights and a few other things. It could become a distraction for Biden in first 100 days but some may feel it is necessary to make the point
Trump is the glue binding Qanon and the conspiracists  to the GOP.
He is very dangerious from the POV of US Democracy .
They might decide to remove him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on January 10, 2021, 09:22:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2021, 09:01:34 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 10, 2021, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2021, 07:10:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2021, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
The GOP seem to be hoping it will fade away from the news as the days go by.

Some of them also talking about "healing", by which they mean the Dems would hinder that by Trump being held to account. See the idiotic Michael Goodwin in the NY Post.

Dems need to hold their resolve and impeach tomorrow. Should have been done this weekend.

If McConnell won't bring the Senate back, then finish to the job under Schumer after the 20th.

Can he be impeached after he leaves office?

I thought the point of impeachment was to remove someone from office
He can. To prevent him from running again. Pour encourager les autres
And this is why GA was a GOP catastrophe

There's precedent for people having been impeached after leaving office, but at cabinet level. Impacts on ability to run again, pension rights, security rights and a few other things. It could become a distraction for Biden in first 100 days but some may feel it is necessary to make the point
Trump is the glue binding Qanon and the conspiracists  to the GOP.
He is very dangerious from the POV of US Democracy .
They might decide to remove him

They can't remove him through the the 25th Amendment situation. Time would be too tight.  There is a 21 day cooling off period and needs half the cabinet. It won't happen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2021, 09:25:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2021, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
The GOP seem to be hoping it will fade away from the news as the days go by.

Some of them also talking about "healing", by which they mean the Dems would hinder that by Trump being held to account. See the idiotic Michael Goodwin in the NY Post.

Dems need to hold their resolve and impeach tomorrow. Should have been done this weekend.

If McConnell won't bring the Senate back, then finish to the job under Schumer after the 20th.

Can he be impeached after he leaves office?

I thought the point of impeachment was to remove someone from office

Going by what I've read over the past few days, apparently he can.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2021, 09:25:56 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 10, 2021, 09:01:22 PM
Shouldn't take the Senate too long to rule once he is impeached by the House.  Democratic control of the Senate means McConnell can't block an issue from coming on to the floor.  And there'll either be the 17 Republicans voting to convict, or there won't.  Can't see much time being used up to persuade anyone with their mind already made up.

Unless McConnell changes it, Senate are on a break until the 19th.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2021, 12:24:40 AM
I wonder if the senate can change its rules to strip the majority leader of the power to block bills from going to the floor. That's too much power for one person who probably doesn't even represent the majority of voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 11, 2021, 11:24:55 AM
Hitting Trump where it hurts.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pga-pulls-major-2022-tournament-trump-s-bedminster-days-after-n1253371
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
What sort of banana republic allows an outgoing President to pardon people?

surely that's a load of balls irrespective of the president!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
What sort of banana republic allows an outgoing President to pardon people?

surely that's a load of balls irrespective of the president!
I bet he'll pardon the fascist goons who invaded the Capitol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
What sort of banana republic allows an outgoing President to pardon people?

surely that's a load of balls irrespective of the president!
I bet he'll pardon the fascist goons who invaded the Capitol

If someone opens a door for you, is it a crime if you walk in?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
What sort of banana republic allows an outgoing President to pardon people?

surely that's a load of balls irrespective of the president!
I bet he'll pardon the fascist goons who invaded the Capitol

If someone opens a door for you, is it a crime if you walk in?
It really does depend what is behind the door

In this case, it very much is a crime

These f**kers would have lynched AOC and Pelosi

And Trump planned it all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on January 11, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
What sort of banana republic allows an outgoing President to pardon people?

surely that's a load of balls irrespective of the president!
I bet he'll pardon the fascist goons who invaded the Capitol

Thankfully any of them are unlikely to be convicted prior to him leaving office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 11, 2021, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 11, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
What sort of banana republic allows an outgoing President to pardon people?

surely that's a load of balls irrespective of the president!
I bet he'll pardon the fascist goons who invaded the Capitol

Thankfully any of them are unlikely to be convicted prior to him leaving office.
Can pardons not be issued for future crimes? Is that not what happened with Nixon? Is that not what Trump plans to do for himself?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on January 11, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 11, 2021, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 11, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
What sort of banana republic allows an outgoing President to pardon people?

surely that's a load of balls irrespective of the president!
I bet he'll pardon the fascist goons who invaded the Capitol

Thankfully any of them are unlikely to be convicted prior to him leaving office.
Can pardons not be issued for future crimes? Is that not what happened with Nixon? Is that not what Trump plans to do for himself?

I don't know about pardons for future crimes, that's a bit dystopian. Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon. The irony of a pardon is that the notion of a pardon is that it's an acceptance of guilt. You can only be pardoned if you have been found guilty of something. It is not an exoneration. If Trump 'future proofs' himself with a pardon then effectively he admits that he has committed a crime. I don't see him doing that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 11, 2021, 02:23:35 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 11, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 11, 2021, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 11, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
What sort of banana republic allows an outgoing President to pardon people?

surely that's a load of balls irrespective of the president!
I bet he'll pardon the fascist goons who invaded the Capitol

Thankfully any of them are unlikely to be convicted prior to him leaving office.
Can pardons not be issued for future crimes? Is that not what happened with Nixon? Is that not what Trump plans to do for himself?

I don't know about pardons for future crimes, that's a bit dystopian. Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon. The irony of a pardon is that the notion of a pardon is that it's an acceptance of guilt. You can only be pardoned if you have been found guilty of something. It is not an exoneration. If Trump 'future proofs' himself with a pardon then effectively he admits that he has committed a crime. I don't see him doing that
Sorry what I meant with future crime, was actually charges brought about in the future to past crimes. Of course it would be Trump admitting guilt, but I honestly don't think he'd care if he thinks it benefits him. I woudnt be surprised in the slightest if he does it. Though Id imagine there would be repercussions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 11, 2021, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 11, 2021, 02:23:35 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 11, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 11, 2021, 12:11:45 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 11, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
What sort of banana republic allows an outgoing President to pardon people?

surely that's a load of balls irrespective of the president!
I bet he'll pardon the fascist goons who invaded the Capitol

Thankfully any of them are unlikely to be convicted prior to him leaving office.
Can pardons not be issued for future crimes? Is that not what happened with Nixon? Is that not what Trump plans to do for himself?

I don't know about pardons for future crimes, that's a bit dystopian. Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon. The irony of a pardon is that the notion of a pardon is that it's an acceptance of guilt. You can only be pardoned if you have been found guilty of something. It is not an exoneration. If Trump 'future proofs' himself with a pardon then effectively he admits that he has committed a crime. I don't see him doing that
Sorry what I meant with future crime, was actually charges brought about in the future to past crimes. Of course it would be Trump admitting guilt, but I honestly don't think he'd care if he thinks it benefits him. I woudnt be surprised in the slightest if he does it. Though Id imagine there would be repercussions
The example is with the preemptive pardon issued to Tricky Dicky, for any crimes he might have committed while president. Nixon did not admit guilt, apparantly he didn't have to, but the guilt was imposed upon him by the act of pardon being granted, therefore Nixon confessed guilt by accepting the pardon, while denying guilt by his mouth for decades afterwards.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 11, 2021, 02:57:46 PM
Could it be called the Immaculate Pardon?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 03:00:57 PM
Right wing nut jobs like Jeannine Pirro and Steve King are now comparing social media finally clamping down on fascists and Nazis to, wait for it, Kristallnacht

These are the same sort of people who tried to vilify AOC for correctly saying that the Trump regime was running concentration camps

History is purely a tool of Orwellian abuse for these fascist scumbags
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 03:02:14 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 11, 2021, 02:57:46 PM
Could it be called the Immaculate Pardon?
The Immaculate Conception was satirised as rape by RTE last week

But nobody has to use any satire whatsoever to call Trump a rapist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2021, 03:10:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 03:00:57 PM
Right wing nut jobs like Jeannine Pirro and Steve King are now comparing social media finally clamping down on fascists and Nazis to, wait for it, Kristallnacht

These are the same sort of people who tried to vilify AOC for correctly saying that the Trump regime was running concentration camps

History is purely a tool of Orwellian abuse for these fascist scumbags

When you are relying on Steve King, a man too overtly racist for even the GOP under Trump, to make your argument, you don't have much of a case.

But of course the more they beat this drum, the less time they have to spend thinking or talking about the murderous riot they unleashed on the US Capitol building and the presidential succession.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 11, 2021, 03:15:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 03:02:14 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 11, 2021, 02:57:46 PM
Could it be called the Immaculate Pardon?
The Immaculate Conception was satirised as rape by RTE last week

But nobody has to use any satire whatsoever to call Trump a rapist

They'd want to have a look at what the immaculate conception is about then. Along with the majority of the population.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 03:59:31 PM
Not many theologians on this Board I suspect😇
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 11, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
Democrats going for impeachment, will be tight for time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2021, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
Democrats going for impeachment, will be tight for time.

Whatever the outcome, he has to be impeached. Incitement of a murderous riot cannot be allowed to stand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 11, 2021, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 03:59:31 PM
Not many theologians on this Board I suspect😇
You probably think an immaculate conception is what can result after man rapes sheep.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 05:34:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2021, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
Democrats going for impeachment, will be tight for time.

Whatever the outcome, he has to be impeached. Incitement of a murderous riot cannot be allowed to stand.
Attempted coup

Do you think the Republicans will vote to convict, even post January 20th?

I thought for a day or two they might - as this would be in the best interests of both the Republican party and the US itself, but my belief that that could happen has waned

I've been watching a lot of Fox over the last several days as research and they are even deeper down the rabbit hole than ever, so I think the Republicans will vote to acquit

I came across a programme on Fox last night presented by a guy called Steve Hilton, an English guy, a former Tory adviser

It actually made me do that sort of Sideshow Bob type shudder, it somehow felt even worse and even more brain rotting than watching Carlson or Hannity or Fox and Friends
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 11, 2021, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 03:59:31 PM
Not many theologians on this Board I suspect😇
You probably think an immaculate conception is what can result after man rapes sheep.

Don't give up the day job
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 11, 2021, 08:10:43 PM
CNN Brian Stelter comment on Trump's forced exile, 'although he's a non drinker, it's as if he's an alcoholic and they've taken away all his keys'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on January 11, 2021, 08:11:58 PM
More major companies disassociating themselves from the GOP insurrectionists

https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1348689251223949322?s=19 (https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1348689251223949322?s=19)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 11, 2021, 08:27:38 PM
FRom one of the linked threads in that post

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErY2kY0XUAEM5dx?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 11, 2021, 08:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 05:34:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2021, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
Democrats going for impeachment, will be tight for time.

Whatever the outcome, he has to be impeached. Incitement of a murderous riot cannot be allowed to stand.
Attempted coup

Do you think the Republicans will vote to convict, even post January 20th?

I thought for a day or two they might - as this would be in the best interests of both the Republican party and the US itself, but my belief that that could happen has waned

I've been watching a lot of Fox over the last several days as research and they are even deeper down the rabbit hole than ever, so I think the Republicans will vote to acquit

I came across a programme on Fox last night presented by a guy called Steve Hilton, an English guy, a former Tory adviser

It actually made me do that sort of Sideshow Bob type shudder, it somehow felt even worse and even more brain rotting than watching Carlson or Hannity or Fox and Friends

Lately it sounds like you're the one down the rabbit hole.
I never understand how some people in Ireland get so wound up about the politics of a foreign country on a different continent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 09:05:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2021, 08:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 05:34:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2021, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
Democrats going for impeachment, will be tight for time.

Whatever the outcome, he has to be impeached. Incitement of a murderous riot cannot be allowed to stand.
Attempted coup

Do you think the Republicans will vote to convict, even post January 20th?

I thought for a day or two they might - as this would be in the best interests of both the Republican party and the US itself, but my belief that that could happen has waned

I've been watching a lot of Fox over the last several days as research and they are even deeper down the rabbit hole than ever, so I think the Republicans will vote to acquit

I came across a programme on Fox last night presented by a guy called Steve Hilton, an English guy, a former Tory adviser

It actually made me do that sort of Sideshow Bob type shudder, it somehow felt even worse and even more brain rotting than watching Carlson or Hannity or Fox and Friends

Lately it sounds like you're the one down the rabbit hole.
I never understand how some people in Ireland get so wound up about the politics of a foreign country on a different continent.
I do indeed go down plenty of rabbit holes online because I'm very curious about the pathology of the far right - the threat of which I have consistently called correctly

Everybody should be curious

If you can't understand why so many people, such as myself, are so against the Trump regime, you should probably study a bit of history - and develop a bit of humanity

One wonders what you would have said to staff who went on strike at Dunnes Stores who were protesting the company trading with the apartheid regime in South Africa

I'm guessing you would have passed the picket and made snide comments to the strikers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:12:29 AM
Everytime I see the scenes from the riots it's just insane. Can't imagine what it is going to be like for Bidens Inauguration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 12, 2021, 02:25:55 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:12:29 AM
Everytime I see the scenes from the riots it's just insane. Can't imagine what it is going to be like for Bidens Inauguration
were you off the grid last summer? rioters chased the cops out of one of their buildings in Minneapolis took over the building and then burned it down , been lots of rioting for the last 4 years just the good sort according to the media and some politicians.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:41:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: dec on January 08, 2021, 07:30:25 PM
The Washington Post has a new video of the shooting of Ashli Babbit. It shows more of the leadup to it and is about 3 minutes long

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/

There's all sorts of wrong with that.

The cops abandoning their post 30 seconds before the shooting?

Then one of the rioters start shouting "there's a gun" and they keep trying to bust through??

The name of the rioter you are referring to is John Sullivan, do a thorough investigation on him.
Also do likewise with Jacob Anthony Chansley. The events of January 6th, 2021 will come more clearly into focus.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:46:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2021, 08:27:38 PM
FRom one of the linked threads in that post

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErY2kY0XUAEM5dx?format=jpg&name=large)


A picture paints a thousand words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2021, 02:53:10 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:41:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: dec on January 08, 2021, 07:30:25 PM
The Washington Post has a new video of the shooting of Ashli Babbit. It shows more of the leadup to it and is about 3 minutes long

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/

There's all sorts of wrong with that.

The cops abandoning their post 30 seconds before the shooting?

Then one of the rioters start shouting "there's a gun" and they keep trying to bust through??

The name of the rioter you are referring to is John Sullivan, do a thorough investigation on him.
Also do likewise with Jacob Anthony Chansley. The events of January 6th, 2021 will come more clearly into focus.

Or you could just tell me straight out why I shouldn't believe my google search that tells me the first guy wasn't involved, and the second guy isn't a right wing nutjob?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 03:09:08 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2021, 02:53:10 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:41:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: dec on January 08, 2021, 07:30:25 PM
The Washington Post has a new video of the shooting of Ashli Babbit. It shows more of the leadup to it and is about 3 minutes long

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/
http://gaaboard.com/board/Themes/default/images/smflogo.png

There's all sorts of wrong with that.

The cops abandoning their post 30 seconds before the shooting?

Then one of the rioters start shouting "there's a gun" and they keep trying to bust through??

The name of the rioter you are referring to is John Sullivan, do a thorough investigation on him.
Also do likewise with Jacob Anthony Chansley. The events of January 6th, 2021 will come more clearly into focus.

Or you could just tell me straight out why I shouldn't believe my google search that tells me the first guy wasn't involved, and the second guy isn't a right wing nutjob?

Now please don't be so lazy. You will need to learn how to do a proper investigation. No wonder the world is in such a mess.

The first guy was questioned/arrested or possibly protected and then released, I wonder why?

The second guy will probably go through with the charade as he is protected.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:12 AM
it could get real ugly real fast and if it kickoff it will make the northern ireland troubles look like a picnic. they're  talking about armed protests in all 50 states.They say there going back to dc but i think they will get scared unless they have massive numbers but they might try something somewhere else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 03:35:59 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:12 AM
it could get real ugly real fast and if it kickoff it will make the northern ireland troubles look like a picnic. they're  talking about armed protests in all 50 states.They say there going back to dc but i think they will get scared unless they have massive numbers but they might try something somewhere else.

The fake news is laying the ground work for the gullible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on January 12, 2021, 06:22:18 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:46:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2021, 08:27:38 PM
FRom one of the linked threads in that post

(//)


A picture paints a thousand words.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/12/capitol-police-officer-who-steered-mob-away-from-senate-chambers-hailed-a-hero (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/12/capitol-police-officer-who-steered-mob-away-from-senate-chambers-hailed-a-hero)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 12, 2021, 06:33:17 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 03:09:08 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2021, 02:53:10 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:41:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: dec on January 08, 2021, 07:30:25 PM
The Washington Post has a new video of the shooting of Ashli Babbit. It shows more of the leadup to it and is about 3 minutes long

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/
http://gaaboard.com/board/Themes/default/images/smflogo.png

There's all sorts of wrong with that.

The cops abandoning their post 30 seconds before the shooting?

Then one of the rioters start shouting "there's a gun" and they keep trying to bust through??

The name of the rioter you are referring to is John Sullivan, do a thorough investigation on him.
Also do likewise with Jacob Anthony Chansley. The events of January 6th, 2021 will come more clearly into focus.

Or you could just tell me straight out why I shouldn't believe my google search that tells me the first guy wasn't involved, and the second guy isn't a right wing nutjob?

Now please don't be so lazy. You will need to learn how to do a proper investigation. No wonder the world is in such a mess.

The first guy was questioned/arrested or possibly protected and then released, I wonder why?

The second guy will probably go through with the charade as he is protected.

So one guy is a reporter and the other guy is a Qanon/Trump follower.   And your point is ... The Fake News are setting us up.... You are going to have to help me understand how you come to that conclusion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on January 12, 2021, 07:01:26 AM
Michael Moore

THE 7 CRITICAL TRUTHS:

1. This attack on the Capitol was an Inside Job in which some Republican members of Congress and their staffs assisted the mob in getting into and through the Capitol building.

2. Various elements of law enforcement also assisted in the attack, as did rogue cops and current and ex-military from around the country. Current members of the NYPD and the Seattle police force have been identified in footage as part of the mob. Reports say they've also identified active duty troops partipating in the attack - plus a police chief and a sheriff - as members of the mob. The guy inside the House chamber carrying the large number of police-grade handcuff zip-ties is a retired Lt. Colonel.

3. Trump was the ringleader and the inciter - and when cries of help were made to him to send in the National Guard to protect the Capitol and our elected representatives, Trump refused.

4. This attack was a dry run for more violent attacks the terrorists are planning to launch before the Inauguration.

5. Why did members of Congress tell their staffs to stay home on Wednesday "for their own safety?" Everyone knew there would be trouble. Yet, stunningly, 1,900 Capitol Police were told to stay home on Wednesday. Only 400 reported to work. It was designed for them to be overrun.

6. Of the very few terrorists who have now been arrested, not one of them has been charged with domestic terrorism. "Trespassing" is the most common charge.

7.  White supremacists were everywhere in the mob. Some wore T-shirts proclaiming, "6 Million Was Not Enough." Our military and police departments across the country have been infiltrated by white supremacists and hard-core racists. Defunding them will defang them. Everyone knows had that mob been Black, they'd all be dead. We need to start over with a whole new concept of criminal justice, and new anti-racist peacekeeping officers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 09:49:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 12, 2021, 02:25:55 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:12:29 AM
Everytime I see the scenes from the riots it's just insane. Can't imagine what it is going to be like for Bidens Inauguration
were you off the grid last summer? rioters chased the cops out of one of their buildings in Minneapolis took over the building and then burned it down , been lots of rioting for the last 4 years just the good sort according to the media and some politicians.

Who said it was "good"?

A bunch of people are up on federal charges for that, as they should be. I'd imagine there's state charges too. Those lads will be going to prison. And that includes the far right boogaloo morons who got involved too for their own political purposes.

Where it does differ:

1. The reason people were out on the streets protesting was legitimate. Not the case for this Capitol riot.
2. The rioters in Minneapolis weren't whipped up and sent out to storm the police station by the president and his enablers, or, it is starting to appear, possibly aided and abetted by sympathetic insiders.
3. The setting and the scale. It was the Capitol building as Congress was certifying a f**king presidential election, usually a barely-reported rubber-stamping exercise. They were looking to target the VP and Speaker of the House FFS.
4. Five people, including a cop, were killed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on January 12, 2021, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:12 AM
it could get real ugly real fast and if it kickoff it will make the northern ireland troubles look like a picnic. they're  talking about armed protests in all 50 states.They say there going back to dc but i think they will get scared unless they have massive numbers but they might try something somewhere else.

Astounded by this comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 12, 2021, 10:15:41 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on January 12, 2021, 06:22:18 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:46:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 11, 2021, 08:27:38 PM
FRom one of the linked threads in that post

(//)


A picture paints a thousand words.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/12/capitol-police-officer-who-steered-mob-away-from-senate-chambers-hailed-a-hero (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/12/capitol-police-officer-who-steered-mob-away-from-senate-chambers-hailed-a-hero)

He should have gotten down on one knee, un-holstered that gun and fired a few rounds at head height and no one would have batted an eyelid.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on January 12, 2021, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:12 AM
it could get real ugly real fast and if it kickoff it will make the northern ireland troubles look like a picnic. they're  talking about armed protests in all 50 states.They say there going back to dc but i think they will get scared unless they have massive numbers but they might try something somewhere else.

Astounded by this comment.
You do realise that the poisonous ideology of Trumpism with has killed many, many, many, many more people than died in the Troubles?

620k people died in the US Civil War alone

The Confederacy never went away

Trumpism is the Confederacy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2021, 11:43:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on January 12, 2021, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:12 AM
it could get real ugly real fast and if it kickoff it will make the northern ireland troubles look like a picnic. they're  talking about armed protests in all 50 states.They say there going back to dc but i think they will get scared unless they have massive numbers but they might try something somewhere else.

Astounded by this comment.
You do realise that the poisonous ideology of Trumpism with has killed many, many, many, many more people than died in the Troubles?

620k people died in the US Civil War alone

The Confederacy never went away

Trumpism is the Confederacy


Almost 800 murdered in the city of Chicago in 2020

What ideology is responsible for that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 11:44:20 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:41:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: dec on January 08, 2021, 07:30:25 PM
The Washington Post has a new video of the shooting of Ashli Babbit. It shows more of the leadup to it and is about 3 minutes long

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/

There's all sorts of wrong with that.

The cops abandoning their post 30 seconds before the shooting?

Then one of the rioters start shouting "there's a gun" and they keep trying to bust through??

The name of the rioter you are referring to is John Sullivan, do a thorough investigation on him.
Also do likewise with Jacob Anthony Chansley. The events of January 6th, 2021 will come more clearly into focus.
John Sullivan wrote Only Fools And Horses

Which is a good description of people with "views" like "Seamus" - with apologies to horses
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 11:46:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 11:43:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on January 12, 2021, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:12 AM
it could get real ugly real fast and if it kickoff it will make the northern ireland troubles look like a picnic. they're  talking about armed protests in all 50 states.They say there going back to dc but i think they will get scared unless they have massive numbers but they might try something somewhere else.

Astounded by this comment.
You do realise that the poisonous ideology of Trumpism with has killed many, many, many, many more people than died in the Troubles?

620k people died in the US Civil War alone

The Confederacy never went away

Trumpism is the Confederacy


Almost 800 murdered in the city of Chicago in 2020

What ideology is responsible for that?
The Second Amenedment, unfettered capitalism

Both of these things are as sensible as legalising paedophilia

As are your posts

I expect a torrent of race hatred now in response to that, as you have been writing for many years here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2021, 12:15:10 PM
IL has among the strictest gun laws in the country

Go back to bed

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
And Indiana has some of the most lax gun laws in the country

And the gun laws everywhere in the country are nuts

Because the second amendment is a ludicrous piece of shit

Three year olds could write more sensible pieces of law

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2021, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on January 12, 2021, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:12 AM
it could get real ugly real fast and if it kickoff it will make the northern ireland troubles look like a picnic. they're  talking about armed protests in all 50 states.They say there going back to dc but i think they will get scared unless they have massive numbers but they might try something somewhere else.

Astounded by this comment.
You do realise that the poisonous ideology of Trumpism with has killed many, many, many, many more people than died in the Troubles?

620k people died in the US Civil War alone

The Confederacy never went away

Trumpism is the Confederacy
The Confederacy was defeated by superior force and economic power. Maybe payrises might fix QAnon.
Red states are much poorer than blue states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2021, 12:34:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
And Indiana has some of the most lax gun laws in the country

And the gun laws everywhere in the country are nuts

Because the second amendment is a ludicrous piece of shit

Three year olds could write more sensible pieces of law

Town I grew up in Ireland has had more murders than the town I live in (which has thousands of people licensed to own a gun)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 12:39:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 12, 2021, 02:25:55 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:12:29 AM
Everytime I see the scenes from the riots it's just insane. Can't imagine what it is going to be like for Bidens Inauguration
were you off the grid last summer? rioters chased the cops out of one of their buildings in Minneapolis took over the building and then burned it down , been lots of rioting for the last 4 years just the good sort according to the media and some politicians.

I did see them which is another reason why I think the scenes are insane. BLM were much more peaceful than what went down last week. Unfortunately, no matter what protests occur there is always going to be a small element who are physically combative. What happened on Capitol Hill was completely different...people died, people actively encouraging the murder of politicians - they were out for blood, no intentions of being peaceful.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:48:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 12, 2021, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on January 12, 2021, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:12 AM
it could get real ugly real fast and if it kickoff it will make the northern ireland troubles look like a picnic. they're  talking about armed protests in all 50 states.They say there going back to dc but i think they will get scared unless they have massive numbers but they might try something somewhere else.

Astounded by this comment.
You do realise that the poisonous ideology of Trumpism with has killed many, many, many, many more people than died in the Troubles?

620k people died in the US Civil War alone

The Confederacy never went away

Trumpism is the Confederacy
The Confederacy was defeated by superior force and economic power. Maybe payrises might fix QAnon.
Red states are much poorer than blue states.
The Republican Party is the Confederate Party

The idea of the Confederacy is American Nazism

The Confederacy was never routed like the Nazis

It was allowed survive, both in government and in the general culture

What America has had for the last 156 years is like if the Nazis had been allowed to regroup in Germany post World War II

Calls for "unity" are effectively calls for tolerance of Nazism - but you can't run a country like that

Nobody with power is taking the threat remotely seriously enough

For America to "heal", the American Nazis have to be defeated, routed, driven into the dust, and a stake plunged through the rotten heart of their rotten ideology

And even then, there's always a risk of it returning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2021, 12:51:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 12:34:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
And Indiana has some of the most lax gun laws in the country

And the gun laws everywhere in the country are nuts

Because the second amendment is a ludicrous piece of shit

Three year olds could write more sensible pieces of law

Town I grew up in Ireland has had more murders than the town I live in (which has thousands of people licensed to own a gun)
The plural of anecdote is not data. The US has a settler-colonial history which is reflected in the murder rate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:53:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 08, 2021, 06:03:21 PM
Biden's speech yesterday
"The scenes of chaos at the Capitol do not reflect the true America.
This is not who we are"
"America is about honor, decency, respect, and tolerance.
That's who we are. That's who we've always been."

Eh Joe?  true America?  where the fck has Joe been all his life?  this is true America!  - that was white supremacy on parade.  It's the DNA  of America since the slaughter of native Americans  and the enslavement of Africans from post Civil War/Jim Crow, right through to this day,  exemplified by the red carpet treatment meted out to protestors  invading Congress, urged on by the president and hundreds of elected representatives. The protestors eventually were gently escorted out of the premises, not beaten black and blue, cable cuffed and dragged to a bus to jail.

I read that Trump announces he is going to snub the inauguration, Biden missed his golden opportunity to get his retaliation in first and  tell Trump he wasn't welcome, that his presence would dishonor the event.

What Biden did there is basically what Leo Strauss, the father of neo-conservatism, did

He is perpetuating the myth of American virtue that neo-conservatives believed was essential for a cohesive American nation

Neo-conservatism was ironically founded based on opposition to individualism - but individualism has always been something that the Republican party has preached

But that individualism was only open to those of a higher caste, and certainly only open to whites - society for whites, ghettoisation for minorities

Left-wing politics believes, or should believe, in society being achieved through real individual freedom at a micro level but societal solidarity at a macro level, and the questioning and exposing of historical myths and lies

Conservatism believes the opposite - that historical myths and lies should never be exposed - and that societal solidarity can come from the perpetuation of those myths, these lies - but this is clearly wrong

Grand virtuous myths tie in completely with what I say about right wing politics and the fantasy world it subscribes to

But in America, belief in grand virtuous myths is not something that is exclusive to conservatives - it is widespread, especially among white liberals, and even many minorities who have absorbed this propaganda - like if you watch Rachel Maddow's programme, the perpetuation of American virtue is also a theme

Yet conservatism also preaches against societal solidarity

Conservatism also depends on a mono-cultural, mono-ethnic society, which is exactly what America isn't

Only a mono-cultural, mono-ethnic society can sustain national myths about virtue

There are huge and ludicrous contradictions everywhere in that ideology, it doesn't make sense

Biden is trying to perform a balancing act - he is trying to keep alive the myth of American virtue so order is kept - but in the long run, these myths will have to be faced up to and completely demolished if America is ever to have a real chance of being a cohesive society

Perpetuating the myth of American virtue is political correctness - right wing political correctness - one could say it's right wing political correctness gone mad

I think the essential difference between the way conservatives and liberals portray American virtue is motive

For conservatives, it's a DUP style apartheid ideology of exclusivity - for them, America equals white people in the same way that Ulster equals Protestantism - and they need to justify their own virtue through a flagrant lie

For liberals, especially white liberals, it's naivety, they have a naive, saccharine belief in the idea of American virtue, it's quite similar to how Irish people have a naive believe in the virtue of Irishness based on our own national myth

But liberals are forced into coalition with left-wingers, who correctly want to smash this myth of American virtue - this is a real tension at the heart of the Democratic party

America's problem is it never had a catharsis - it never had a mass facing up by the defeated, ie. the confederates and racists, that they were wrong, that they believed in something that was evil - so the evil continued

They never had to repudiate what they were in the way they should have had to

Germany at least had some form of catharsis after the Nazis and World War II - it had to face up to the fact it had embraced a truly evil ideology and committed almost unspeakable evils, and while this catharsis was not perfect, it was a million miles better than what America had, it brought about a sort of official honesty in that country that does not exist in America, where saccharine sentimentality and delusion about national virtue still reigns

America needs a catharsis to get over Trump and to get over centuries of evil

It does not "need the country to come together" - it needs truth

It needs the 74 million people who are brainwashed to become unbrainwashed

And it needs the criminals who have perpetuated the last four years of shame to be punished

Biden is a lot better than Trump but it's unlikely he will be the man to provide a catharsis, indeed it's unlikely that the Democratic party as it currently exists is the party to do so - because the centrists are afraid of governing boldly, unapologetically and confrontationally for policies and truths that are righteous

This is the heart of it

Quotehttps://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/denial-heartbeat-america/617631/

Denial Is the Heartbeat of America
When have Americans been willing to admit who we are?

JANUARY 11, 2021

Ibram X. Kendi
Director of the Boston University Center for Antiracist Research
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 12, 2021, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:48:12 PM
The Republican Party is the Confederate Party

The idea of the Confederacy is American Nazism

The Confederacy was never routed like the Nazis

It was allowed survive, both in government and in the general culture

What America has had for the last 156 years is like if the Nazis had been allowed to regroup in Germany post World War II

Calls for "unity" are effectively calls for tolerance of Nazism - but you can't run a country like that

Nobody with power is taking the threat remotely seriously enough

For America to "heal", the American Nazis have to be defeated, routed, driven into the dust, and a stake plunged through the rotten heart of their rotten ideology

And even then, there's always a risk of it returning

Everything you say here is based on lies.

Lincoln was a Republican.

The Southern Democrats founded and established the Confederacy.

The Confederates were Democrats.

20th century Democrat, Confederate apologist and segregationist Strom Thurmond picked Joe Biden to deliver the eulogy at his funeral, which took place in 2003.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2021, 01:00:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 12, 2021, 12:51:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 12:34:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
And Indiana has some of the most lax gun laws in the country

And the gun laws everywhere in the country are nuts

Because the second amendment is a ludicrous piece of shit

Three year olds could write more sensible pieces of law

Town I grew up in Ireland has had more murders than the town I live in (which has thousands of people licensed to own a gun)
The plural of anecdote is not data. The US has a settler-colonial history which is reflected in the murder rate.

The homicide rate for my demographic isn't a whole lot different for the homicide rate for my demographic in Ireland
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 12, 2021, 01:02:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 12:34:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
And Indiana has some of the most lax gun laws in the country

And the gun laws everywhere in the country are nuts

Because the second amendment is a ludicrous piece of shit

Three year olds could write more sensible pieces of law

Town I grew up in Ireland has had more murders than the town I live in (which has thousands of people licensed to own a gun)

I don't know how anyone with any empathy, can see children gunned down in a classroom and not see a problem with that countries gun laws.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 01:06:42 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:48:12 PM
The Republican Party is the Confederate Party

The idea of the Confederacy is American Nazism

The Confederacy was never routed like the Nazis

It was allowed survive, both in government and in the general culture

What America has had for the last 156 years is like if the Nazis had been allowed to regroup in Germany post World War II

Calls for "unity" are effectively calls for tolerance of Nazism - but you can't run a country like that

Nobody with power is taking the threat remotely seriously enough

For America to "heal", the American Nazis have to be defeated, routed, driven into the dust, and a stake plunged through the rotten heart of their rotten ideology

And even then, there's always a risk of it returning

Everything you say here is based on lies.

Lincoln was a Republican.

The Southern Democrats founded and established the Confederacy.

The Confederates were Democrats.

20th century Democrat, Confederate apologist and segregationist Strom Thurmond picked Joe Biden to deliver the eulogy at his funeral, which took place in 2003.
Standard issue pro-Republican response

My post is the truth and you don't like it because you have Confederate sympathies

The Democratic party was indeed the Confederate party - it should have been driven into the dust after the Civil War

As it happened the parties ended up swapping places in the century afterwards - this was a process completed by the Civil Rights Act, when the Democrats lost the white south forever - because the white South was and is iredeemably racist - and became the party of choice for minorities - and the Republicans became once and for all the Confederate party

Today the Republican party is the Confederate party, it is the American Nazi Party, it is the white supremacist party

This is basic history and it's quite astonishing you didn't know it



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 01:08:31 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2021, 01:02:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 12:34:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
And Indiana has some of the most lax gun laws in the country

And the gun laws everywhere in the country are nuts

Because the second amendment is a ludicrous piece of shit

Three year olds could write more sensible pieces of law

Town I grew up in Ireland has had more murders than the town I live in (which has thousands of people licensed to own a gun)

I don't know how anyone with any empathy, can see children gunned down in a classroom and not see a problem with that countries gun laws.
Extreme pathology of the mind, total brainwashing

Exhibited emphatically on this thread by several posters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 01:14:36 PM
Republican mega-donor and arch-Israeli apartheid lover Sheldon Adelson is dead

Seamus will be devastated
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 12:48:12 PM
The Republican Party is the Confederate Party

The idea of the Confederacy is American Nazism

The Confederacy was never routed like the Nazis

It was allowed survive, both in government and in the general culture

What America has had for the last 156 years is like if the Nazis had been allowed to regroup in Germany post World War II

Calls for "unity" are effectively calls for tolerance of Nazism - but you can't run a country like that

Nobody with power is taking the threat remotely seriously enough

For America to "heal", the American Nazis have to be defeated, routed, driven into the dust, and a stake plunged through the rotten heart of their rotten ideology

And even then, there's always a risk of it returning

Everything you say here is based on lies.

Lincoln was a Republican.

The Southern Democrats founded and established the Confederacy.

The Confederates were Democrats.

20th century Democrat, Confederate apologist and segregationist Strom Thurmond picked Joe Biden to deliver the eulogy at his funeral, which took place in 2003.

How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?

Did Congress not just override Trump's veto of legislation which he objected to on account of a measure to remove the names of confederate "heroes" from military bases?

Have the right not been having collective fits over the past decade on the subject of getting rid of statues of confederate generals? Do right wing rallies not feature confederate battle flags all over the place?

Do progressives and liberals speak about the "war between the states" or the "war of northern aggression"?

Is the left trying to mold school history curriculums to downplay the role of slavery and racism in American history?

Specifically on Biden, he didn't endorse the racist views of Thurmond, who, remember, left the Dems for the GOP the minute LBJ signed the civil rights act in 1964. The Senate was a different place back then, where politicians of all stripes built relationships even where they were ideologically bitterly opposed. People can be personally close, even where they may have serious disagreements philosophically. Look at the late US Supreme Court justices, RBG and Antonin Scalia. About as diametrically opposed politically and philosophically as you could imagine, yet personally extremely close, to the extent that they spent New Year's Eves together for decades.

Two of America's greatest presidents, Lincoln, and Teddy Roosevelt, were Republicans. They wouldn't be today. And if they wanted to, they wouldn't be welcome. Mitt Romney, their presidential candidate a mere eight years ago, is barely tolerated.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:23:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 01:06:42 PM
Standard issue pro-Republican response

My post is the truth and you don't like it because you have Confederate sympathies

The Democratic party was indeed the Confederate party - it should have been driven into the dust after the Civil War

As it happened the parties ended up swapping places in the century afterwards - this was a process completed by the Civil Rights Act, when the Democrats lost the white south forever - because the white South was and is iredeemably racist - and became the party of choice for minorities - and the Republicans became once and for all the Confederate party

Today the Republican party is the Confederate party, it is the American Nazi Party, it is the white supremacist party

This is basic history and it's quite astonishing you didn't know it

If so, why did Joe Biden, of all people, deliver the eulogy at the funeral of America's most prominent 20th century Confederate apologist, only 17 years ago?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.

How?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 01:42:52 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:23:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 01:06:42 PM
Standard issue pro-Republican response

My post is the truth and you don't like it because you have Confederate sympathies

The Democratic party was indeed the Confederate party - it should have been driven into the dust after the Civil War

As it happened the parties ended up swapping places in the century afterwards - this was a process completed by the Civil Rights Act, when the Democrats lost the white south forever - because the white South was and is iredeemably racist - and became the party of choice for minorities - and the Republicans became once and for all the Confederate party

Today the Republican party is the Confederate party, it is the American Nazi Party, it is the white supremacist party

This is basic history and it's quite astonishing you didn't know it

If so, why did Joe Biden, of all people, deliver the eulogy at the funeral of America's most prominent 20th century Confederate apologist, only 17 years ago?
Because Biden obviously believes in saying nice things about people who have died who he knew personally or knew from work

Sometimes he may be mistaken or misguided in that opinion, as he was probably was here

It's a bizarre point you're trying to make

Strom Thurmond left the Democratic party in 1964 and became a Republican

I was just wondering if you had any knowledge of why Thurmond did that, and if so, maybe you might impart that knowledge to us

I note you haven't pointed out anything in my posts that is untrue

I wonder why






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:52:53 PM
Here is Biden's eulogy for Thurmond for those interested:

https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/joebidenstromthurmondeulogy.htm (https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/joebidenstromthurmondeulogy.htm)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM

Specifically on Biden, he didn't endorse the racist views of Thurmond, who, remember, left the Dems for the GOP the minute LBJ signed the civil rights act in 1964. The Senate was a different place back then, where politicians of all stripes built relationships even where they were ideologically bitterly opposed. People can be personally close, even where they may have serious disagreements philosophically. Look at the late US Supreme Court justices, RBG and Antonin Scalia. About as diametrically opposed politically and philosophically as you could imagine, yet personally extremely close, to the extent that they spent New Year's Eves together for decades.

See the thing with lads like "five points" is they "debate" from an obviously bad faith position

If a Democrat (or somebody on the broad left) is friends with a Republican (or somebody on the broad right), or says something nice about them, that to "five points" and his like is something to be jumped on in a cynical manner

If a Democrat personally dislikes Republicans because the Democrat cannot separate the Republican as a person from their hateful beliefs, the likes of "five points" also tries to seize on that

So nothing is good enough for "five points" - damned if you do,  damned if you don't

Basically "five points", like pretty much all right-wingers these days (because right-wing politics has descended into such a shitshow) doesn't really have any sort of constructive world view whatsoever, cannot verbalise what they believe in in any positive sense whatsoever, and really has nothing only a Putinist ultra-cynicism where everything they say is about creating some sort of imagined "gotcha" against people they dislike

It's a really, really, sad, unhealthy mindspace to be in - and sadly that is right-wing ideology in a nutshell

Right-wing ideology has failed, so the only thing it has is to try and drag everything else down with it - its a form of nihilism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 02:02:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM

Two of America's greatest presidents, Lincoln, and Teddy Roosevelt, were Republicans. They wouldn't be today. And if they wanted to, they wouldn't be welcome. Mitt Romney, their presidential candidate a mere eight years ago, is barely tolerated.
Sure Mike Pence is as right-wing conservative as it gets and they now literally want to hang him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
A slight deviation from the topic at hand and I am sure it has been answered but can someone remind me why we use to see a confederate flag at cork games?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.

How?

Because the GOP is clearly not the party of the Confederacy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
A slight deviation from the topic at hand and I am sure it has been answered but can someone remind me why we use to see a confederate flag at cork games?

The "Rebel" County

Confederates were also known as Rebels
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:44:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM

Specifically on Biden, he didn't endorse the racist views of Thurmond, who, remember, left the Dems for the GOP the minute LBJ signed the civil rights act in 1964. The Senate was a different place back then, where politicians of all stripes built relationships even where they were ideologically bitterly opposed. People can be personally close, even where they may have serious disagreements philosophically. Look at the late US Supreme Court justices, RBG and Antonin Scalia. About as diametrically opposed politically and philosophically as you could imagine, yet personally extremely close, to the extent that they spent New Year's Eves together for decades.

See the thing with lads like "five points" is they "debate" from an obviously bad faith position

If a Democrat (or somebody on the broad left) is friends with a Republican (or somebody on the broad right), or says something nice about them, that to "five points" and his like is something to be jumped on in a cynical manner

If a Democrat personally dislikes Republicans because the Democrat cannot separate the Republican as a person from their hateful beliefs, the likes of "five points" also tries to seize on that

So nothing is good enough for "five points" - damned if you do,  damned if you don't

Basically "five points", like pretty much all right-wingers these days (because right-wing politics has descended into such a shitshow) doesn't really have any sort of constructive world view whatsoever, cannot verbalise what they believe in in any positive sense whatsoever, and really has nothing only a Putinist ultra-cynicism where everything they say is about creating some sort of imagined "gotcha" against people they dislike

It's a really, really, sad, unhealthy mindspace to be in - and sadly that is right-wing ideology in a nutshell

Right-wing ideology has failed, so the only thing it has is to try and drag everything else down with it - its a form of nihilism

If a 21st century Republican Presidential candidate had delivered Thurmond's eulogy, you wouldn't be trying to explain away their friendship and you would most definitely be condemning that act as an endorsement of his racism.

And you're wasting your time insulting me. Nobody here has the first clue who I am anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:50:52 PM
Thanks Whitey.

If you want to see the difference between Republican and Democrats just watch the relevant news channels.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.

How?

Because the GOP is clearly not the party of the Confederacy.

That's not clear at all, especially since the Trump years began.

What is clear is that there are no confederate flags at Biden events, no tiki torches or Auschwitz sweatshirts, no rabble rousing about "erasing history" by renaming a school or base or relocating a statue.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
A slight deviation from the topic at hand and I am sure it has been answered but can someone remind me why we use to see a confederate flag at cork games?

The "Rebel" County

Confederates were also known as Rebels

And a good dollop of either ignorance or indifference on the meaning of the flag too.

Of course that goes for a lot more than Cork supporters.

Dukes of Hazard, Lynyrd Skynryd, Tom Petty even used it as his stage backdrop during an 80s tour...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:49:00 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:44:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM

Specifically on Biden, he didn't endorse the racist views of Thurmond, who, remember, left the Dems for the GOP the minute LBJ signed the civil rights act in 1964. The Senate was a different place back then, where politicians of all stripes built relationships even where they were ideologically bitterly opposed. People can be personally close, even where they may have serious disagreements philosophically. Look at the late US Supreme Court justices, RBG and Antonin Scalia. About as diametrically opposed politically and philosophically as you could imagine, yet personally extremely close, to the extent that they spent New Year's Eves together for decades.

See the thing with lads like "five points" is they "debate" from an obviously bad faith position

If a Democrat (or somebody on the broad left) is friends with a Republican (or somebody on the broad right), or says something nice about them, that to "five points" and his like is something to be jumped on in a cynical manner

If a Democrat personally dislikes Republicans because the Democrat cannot separate the Republican as a person from their hateful beliefs, the likes of "five points" also tries to seize on that

So nothing is good enough for "five points" - damned if you do,  damned if you don't

Basically "five points", like pretty much all right-wingers these days (because right-wing politics has descended into such a shitshow) doesn't really have any sort of constructive world view whatsoever, cannot verbalise what they believe in in any positive sense whatsoever, and really has nothing only a Putinist ultra-cynicism where everything they say is about creating some sort of imagined "gotcha" against people they dislike

It's a really, really, sad, unhealthy mindspace to be in - and sadly that is right-wing ideology in a nutshell

Right-wing ideology has failed, so the only thing it has is to try and drag everything else down with it - its a form of nihilism

If a 21st century Republican Presidential candidate had delivered Thurmond's eulogy, you wouldn't be trying to explain away their friendship and you would most definitely be condemning that act as an endorsement of his racism.

And you're wasting your time insulting me. Nobody here has the first clue who I am anyway.

That may or may not be the case (Sid can speak for himself), but that doesn't invalidate the point with respect to Biden.

The motives of the person and content of the eulogy, as well as the stance of the person in their political career, would obviously be pertinent.

The Senate comity thing was real back then. Deal making, pork barrel politics, respect for the institution and its traditions. Whereas in this hyper-partisan age, they're basically not allowed to publicly show friendship and personal respect.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 12, 2021, 03:49:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.

How?

Because the GOP is clearly not the party of the Confederacy.

That's not clear at all, especially since the Trump years began.

What is clear is that there are no confederate flags at Biden events, no tiki torches or Auschwitz sweatshirts, no rabble rousing about "erasing history" by renaming a school or base or relocating a statue.

Those T-Shirts with Auschwitz on them and "Staff" on the back... like in the name of God. How anyone can align themselves with that is beyond me.
Getting into an argument over which party is the party of the confederacy is pure distraction tactics. I don't believe any true Democrat or indeed Republican can stand over the Confederacy and what it stood for. What that flag stands for now is white supremacy, slavery and torture of your fellow man. All right people reject it and reject what it stood for. It was of a different time. Last weeks events should be looked at through the prism of today and today only. If Republicans cannot see what happened was wrong and that it could lead to more then America is in an even worse place that I imagined.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2021, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
A slight deviation from the topic at hand and I am sure it has been answered but can someone remind me why we use to see a confederate flag at cork games?

The "Rebel" County

Confederates were also known as Rebels
Because it has a lot of red on it?
I seem to recall seeing a WW2 Japanese flag among them at one stage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 12, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.

How?

Because the GOP is clearly not the party of the Confederacy.

That's not clear at all, especially since the Trump years began.

What is clear is that there are no confederate flags at Biden events, no tiki torches or Auschwitz sweatshirts, no rabble rousing about "erasing history" by renaming a school or base or relocating a statue.

The Confederacy was founded and sustained by Democrats and opposed by Republicans. Nothing that has happened in the past decade or any decade can rewrite the history of a century and a half previously, and even the history of Strom Thurmond's era.

No wonder you and the left in general want to dump all the historical evidence in school names, statues etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
A slight deviation from the topic at hand and I am sure it has been answered but can someone remind me why we use to see a confederate flag at cork games?

The "Rebel" County

Confederates were also known as Rebels

And a good dollop of either ignorance or indifference on the meaning of the flag too.

Of course that goes for a lot more than Cork supporters.

Dukes of Hazard, Lynyrd Skynryd, Tom Petty even used it as his stage backdrop during an 80s tour...
I'd hardly compare Cork rebel county supporters use of the flag  with that in the USA.
Context defines their usage of the flag not any agenda,  just as they used the flag of many countries with red white flags,
I see the Union flags outnumber the confed flag by 4-2.

Union flag ain't so hip looking to many people either.

(https://img.rasset.ie/00149bb3-614.jpg?ratio=1.77)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.

How?

Because the GOP is clearly not the party of the Confederacy.

That's not clear at all, especially since the Trump years began.

What is clear is that there are no confederate flags at Biden events, no tiki torches or Auschwitz sweatshirts, no rabble rousing about "erasing history" by renaming a school or base or relocating a statue.

The Confederacy was founded and sustained by Democrats and opposed by Republicans. Nothing that has happened in the past decade or any decade can rewrite the history of a century and a half previously, and even the history of Strom Thurmond's era.

No wonder you and the left in general want to dump all the historical evidence in school names, statues etc.

You really do like to cherry pick a tiny detail and base your whole argument upon that, ignoring all other context and relevant detail.

I wasn't around in 1860, nor was I around in 1960.

I wasn't a Democrat back then, nor do I have any ancestral or philosophical connection to the "lost cause" or the old south.

I'm a Democrat today because I am politically liberal, mainly on the grounds of environmental issues and equality/social justice issues, but also, having been raised in Ireland, having no problem with the idea of a social safety net and everyone being entitled to a level of cover from the state in terms of health, education and simple living. The Democrats are the party which best aligns with my beliefs and morals. Basically, I'm a tree-hugging weenie commie to the average GOPer.

I want to see the statues gone because the confederacy and the old south was an evil abomination which is not deserving of honour. I have never denied the abhorrent past of the Democratic Party, nor do I celebrate it. I condemn them utterly. My favourite presidents are Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and FDR, two of whom were Republicans. If the Dems were still the party of the Dixicrats and Jim Crow, I would NOT be a member. You can cry away about the history of the Dems and the south. That ended more than 50 years ago. And its an object lesson in the evolution towards the better of a political organization.

The GOP, not so much... The GOP is the home of those who do NOT want to see the statues gone and the bases renamed. It is at their rallies and among their supporters that you see the flags, paraphernalia and racist rhetoric. It was THEY who courted and accommodated those conservative southern former Democrats and their counterparts from the rest of the country who do, for whatever reason, cherish the history of the confederacy and the Jim Crow south.

Fiscal conservatives and the likes may not particularly like sharing their party with them, but it doesn't change the fact that LBJ DID lose the south over civil rights and Nixon and Reagan bring that same south into the GOP. For those without very short memories, Ken Mehlman, former RNC chairman no less, apologized in front of the NAACP, for the southern strategy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 12, 2021, 04:55:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
A slight deviation from the topic at hand and I am sure it has been answered but can someone remind me why we use to see a confederate flag at cork games?

The "Rebel" County

Confederates were also known as Rebels

And a good dollop of either ignorance or indifference on the meaning of the flag too.

Of course that goes for a lot more than Cork supporters.

Dukes of Hazard, Lynyrd Skynryd, Tom Petty even used it as his stage backdrop during an 80s tour...
I'd hardly compare Cork rebel county supporters use of the flag  with that in the USA.
Context defines their usage of the flag not any agenda,  just as they used the flag of many countries with red white flags,
I see the Union flags outnumber the confed flag by 4-2.

Union flag ain't so hip looking to many people either.

(https://img.rasset.ie/00149bb3-614.jpg?ratio=1.77)
maybe they are relatives of Patrick cleburne.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 12, 2021, 04:55:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
A slight deviation from the topic at hand and I am sure it has been answered but can someone remind me why we use to see a confederate flag at cork games?

The "Rebel" County

Confederates were also known as Rebels

And a good dollop of either ignorance or indifference on the meaning of the flag too.

Of course that goes for a lot more than Cork supporters.

Dukes of Hazard, Lynyrd Skynryd, Tom Petty even used it as his stage backdrop during an 80s tour...
I'd hardly compare Cork rebel county supporters use of the flag  with that in the USA.
Context defines their usage of the flag not any agenda,  just as they used the flag of many countries with red white flags,
I see the Union flags outnumber the confed flag by 4-2.

Union flag ain't so hip looking to many people either.

(https://img.rasset.ie/00149bb3-614.jpg?ratio=1.77)
maybe they are relatives of Patrick cleburne.
There's a supporter donning a mexican sombrera in there, no doubt to recall the memory of  that famous rebel Emiliano Zapata.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2021, 05:20:35 PM
That the RWNJs are still clinging to the old "Democrats were the racist party 60 years ago" defense is just hilarious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 12, 2021, 05:37:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
You really do like to cherry pick a tiny detail and base your whole argument upon that, ignoring all other context and relevant detail.

I wasn't around in 1860, nor was I around in 1960.

I wasn't a Democrat back then, nor do I have any ancestral or philosophical connection to the "lost cause" or the old south.

I'm a Democrat today because I am politically liberal
..
The GOP, not so much... The GOP is the home of those who do NOT want to see the statues gone and the bases renamed. It is at their rallies and among their supporters that you see the flags, paraphernalia and racist rhetoric. It was THEY who courted and accommodated those conservative southern former Democrats and their counterparts from the rest of the country who do, for whatever reason, cherish the history of the confederacy and the Jim Crow south.

The Confederacy and the Civil War it provoked was never a tiny detail.

Biden's eulogy for a Southern Democrat apologist for both the confederacy and Jim Crow, only 17 years ago, was nothing if not an attempt to court and accommodate the many who venerated that creep. Your criticism of the GOP for doing the same is empty.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2021, 05:56:49 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 05:37:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
You really do like to cherry pick a tiny detail and base your whole argument upon that, ignoring all other context and relevant detail.

I wasn't around in 1860, nor was I around in 1960.

I wasn't a Democrat back then, nor do I have any ancestral or philosophical connection to the "lost cause" or the old south.

I'm a Democrat today because I am politically liberal
..
The GOP, not so much... The GOP is the home of those who do NOT want to see the statues gone and the bases renamed. It is at their rallies and among their supporters that you see the flags, paraphernalia and racist rhetoric. It was THEY who courted and accommodated those conservative southern former Democrats and their counterparts from the rest of the country who do, for whatever reason, cherish the history of the confederacy and the Jim Crow south.

The Confederacy and the Civil War it provoked was never a tiny detail.

Biden's eulogy for a Southern Democrat apologist for both the confederacy and Jim Crow, only 17 years ago, was nothing if not an attempt to court and accommodate the many who venerated that creep. Your criticism of the GOP for doing the same is empty.

It's called selective outrage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 12, 2021, 06:19:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 12, 2021, 04:55:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
A slight deviation from the topic at hand and I am sure it has been answered but can someone remind me why we use to see a confederate flag at cork games?

The "Rebel" County

Confederates were also known as Rebels

And a good dollop of either ignorance or indifference on the meaning of the flag too.

Of course that goes for a lot more than Cork supporters.

Dukes of Hazard, Lynyrd Skynryd, Tom Petty even used it as his stage backdrop during an 80s tour...
I'd hardly compare Cork rebel county supporters use of the flag  with that in the USA.
Context defines their usage of the flag not any agenda,  just as they used the flag of many countries with red white flags,
I see the Union flags outnumber the confed flag by 4-2.

Union flag ain't so hip looking to many people either.

(https://img.rasset.ie/00149bb3-614.jpg?ratio=1.77)
maybe they are relatives of Patrick cleburne.
There's a supporter donning a mexican sombrera in there, no doubt to recall the memory of  that famous rebel Emiliano Zapata.
pancho villa
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on January 12, 2021, 06:22:20 PM
Trump has brought nothing but disrepute to the office. Con man from start to finish and if 75m people dont see that then they get/got exactly what they deserve. Almost single handedly dragged the US into world contempt. Some achievement alright!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 06:35:40 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 05:37:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
You really do like to cherry pick a tiny detail and base your whole argument upon that, ignoring all other context and relevant detail.

I wasn't around in 1860, nor was I around in 1960.

I wasn't a Democrat back then, nor do I have any ancestral or philosophical connection to the "lost cause" or the old south.

I'm a Democrat today because I am politically liberal
..
The GOP, not so much... The GOP is the home of those who do NOT want to see the statues gone and the bases renamed. It is at their rallies and among their supporters that you see the flags, paraphernalia and racist rhetoric. It was THEY who courted and accommodated those conservative southern former Democrats and their counterparts from the rest of the country who do, for whatever reason, cherish the history of the confederacy and the Jim Crow south.

The Confederacy and the Civil War it provoked was never a tiny detail.

Biden's eulogy for a Southern Democrat apologist for both the confederacy and Jim Crow, only 17 years ago, was nothing if not an attempt to court and accommodate the many who venerated that creep. Your criticism of the GOP for doing the same is empty.

No, your attempt to equate the GOP's decades-long southern strategy with Biden, at the request of Thurmond himself, delivering a eulogy at a friends funeral, is empty and either ignorant or dishonest.

What possible purpose could it serve Biden, a centre-left long-term Senator from Delaware, beyond doing a favour for the family of a friend?

If politics was the issue, Biden was more likely to offend his liberal Democrat base than to win any votes among conservatives (who wouldn't be voting for him anyway!).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 12, 2021, 06:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 05:56:49 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 05:37:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
You really do like to cherry pick a tiny detail and base your whole argument upon that, ignoring all other context and relevant detail.

I wasn't around in 1860, nor was I around in 1960.

I wasn't a Democrat back then, nor do I have any ancestral or philosophical connection to the "lost cause" or the old south.

I'm a Democrat today because I am politically liberal
..
The GOP, not so much... The GOP is the home of those who do NOT want to see the statues gone and the bases renamed. It is at their rallies and among their supporters that you see the flags, paraphernalia and racist rhetoric. It was THEY who courted and accommodated those conservative southern former Democrats and their counterparts from the rest of the country who do, for whatever reason, cherish the history of the confederacy and the Jim Crow south.

The Confederacy and the Civil War it provoked was never a tiny detail.

Biden's eulogy for a Southern Democrat apologist for both the confederacy and Jim Crow, only 17 years ago, was nothing if not an attempt to court and accommodate the many who venerated that creep. Your criticism of the GOP for doing the same is empty.

It's called selective outrage

No, its right out of your own playbook of false equivalence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2021, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 06:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 05:56:49 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 05:37:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
You really do like to cherry pick a tiny detail and base your whole argument upon that, ignoring all other context and relevant detail.

I wasn't around in 1860, nor was I around in 1960.

I wasn't a Democrat back then, nor do I have any ancestral or philosophical connection to the "lost cause" or the old south.

I'm a Democrat today because I am politically liberal
..
The GOP, not so much... The GOP is the home of those who do NOT want to see the statues gone and the bases renamed. It is at their rallies and among their supporters that you see the flags, paraphernalia and racist rhetoric. It was THEY who courted and accommodated those conservative southern former Democrats and their counterparts from the rest of the country who do, for whatever reason, cherish the history of the confederacy and the Jim Crow south.

The Confederacy and the Civil War it provoked was never a tiny detail.

Biden's eulogy for a Southern Democrat apologist for both the confederacy and Jim Crow, only 17 years ago, was nothing if not an attempt to court and accommodate the many who venerated that creep. Your criticism of the GOP for doing the same is empty.

It's called selective outrage

No, its right out of your own playbook of false equivalence.

Awomen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 12, 2021, 08:32:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.

How?

Because the GOP is clearly not the party of the Confederacy.

That's not clear at all, especially since the Trump years began.

What is clear is that there are no confederate flags at Biden events, no tiki torches or Auschwitz sweatshirts, no rabble rousing about "erasing history" by renaming a school or base or relocating a statue.

The Confederacy was founded and sustained by Democrats and opposed by Republicans. Nothing that has happened in the past decade or any decade can rewrite the history of a century and a half previously, and even the history of Strom Thurmond's era.

No wonder you and the left in general want to dump all the historical evidence in school names, statues etc.

Five Points ...Do me the courtesy of reading this article. Admittedly not coming out of a stable in which you would park your horse but it might give you some perspective in how the Republican Party has evolved. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-american-civil-war-didnt-end-and-trump-is-a-confederate-president
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 09:02:09 PM
I read that the black Capital police officer who was  famously captured on video  tangling with and being chased up a couple of flights of stairs by a white supremacy mob,  was actually luring them away from the senate chamber into an opposite direction   He instinctively deployed the oldest trick in the 'how a black man can escape imminent white mob danger', as outlined in that famous Blazing Saddles sketch. The endangered black man has to throw the mob a bait which appeals to their white supremacy prejudices and their stupidity overwhelms any residues of rational appreciation of the situation,  allowing the black man to  not only single-handedly save democracy but also to live and fight another day.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4ED7/production/_116438102_stairs.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.

How?

Because the GOP is clearly not the party of the Confederacy.

That's not clear at all, especially since the Trump years began.

What is clear is that there are no confederate flags at Biden events, no tiki torches or Auschwitz sweatshirts, no rabble rousing about "erasing history" by renaming a school or base or relocating a statue.

The Confederacy was founded and sustained by Democrats and opposed by Republicans. Nothing that has happened in the past decade or any decade can rewrite the history of a century and a half previously, and even the history of Strom Thurmond's era.

No wonder you and the left in general want to dump all the historical evidence in school names, statues etc.
And now it is sustained by Republicans and fought bitterly against by Democrats

Your last sentence sort of gives the game away as to your views on the Confederacy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 09:28:42 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 12, 2021, 08:32:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
How is any of that, including Biden giving the eulogy for a long time Senate colleague, relevant to the GOP's current status as the party of the confederacy?


Because your claim to that effect is bogus.

How?

Because the GOP is clearly not the party of the Confederacy.

That's not clear at all, especially since the Trump years began.

What is clear is that there are no confederate flags at Biden events, no tiki torches or Auschwitz sweatshirts, no rabble rousing about "erasing history" by renaming a school or base or relocating a statue.

The Confederacy was founded and sustained by Democrats and opposed by Republicans. Nothing that has happened in the past decade or any decade can rewrite the history of a century and a half previously, and even the history of Strom Thurmond's era.

No wonder you and the left in general want to dump all the historical evidence in school names, statues etc.

Five Points ...Do me the courtesy of reading this article. Admittedly not coming out of a stable in which you would park your horse but it might give you some perspective in how the Republican Party has evolved. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-american-civil-war-didnt-end-and-trump-is-a-confederate-president
You think he'd read an article like that? The common thing with all posters like him is their lack of reading and refusal to engage in any sort of thinking - it's a core tenet of their identity - if they actually read or listened a bit, they might find their views falling apart - and they can't have that

I read and watch a lot of right-wing stuff - it's unbelievably mind numbing - American conservatism is probably the most shallow intellectual environment anywhere in the world
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 12, 2021, 09:36:00 PM
Give him a chance... You never know ... Five points might read it. Lets see.
I would like to hear his views on the article
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 09:42:06 PM
McConnell is said to be "pleased" with impeachment

McConnell is a horrible piece of work but he one thing he isn't is stupid - he is thinking of the future of the Republican party here

Think it's very likely Trump will be formally convicted and banned from running for office again - but it will definitely be after January 20th, I wouldn't be surprised if it's months

Which of course does not deal with the gravity of the situation

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/us/mcconnell-impeachment-trump-mc.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 12, 2021, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 09:02:09 PM
I read that the black Capital police officer who was  famously captured on video  tangling with and being chased up a couple of flights of stairs by a white supremacy mob,  was actually luring them away from the senate chamber into an opposite direction   He instinctively deployed the oldest trick in the 'how a black man can escape imminent white mob danger', as outlined in that famous Blazing Saddles sketch. The endangered black man has to throw the mob a bait which appeals to their white supremacy prejudices and their stupidity overwhelms any residues of rational appreciation of the situation,  allowing the black man to  not only single-handedly save democracy but also to live and fight another day.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4ED7/production/_116438102_stairs.png)

Nice story (if it's true)

Anything I see Shaun King pushing I'm automatically skeptical
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on January 12, 2021, 10:33:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 09:02:09 PM
I read that the black Capital police officer who was  famously captured on video  tangling with and being chased up a couple of flights of stairs by a white supremacy mob,  was actually luring them away from the senate chamber into an opposite direction   He instinctively deployed the oldest trick in the 'how a black man can escape imminent white mob danger', as outlined in that famous Blazing Saddles sketch. The endangered black man has to throw the mob a bait which appeals to their white supremacy prejudices and their stupidity overwhelms any residues of rational appreciation of the situation,  allowing the black man to  not only single-handedly save democracy but also to live and fight another day.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4ED7/production/_116438102_stairs.png)

Nice story (if it's true)

Anything I see Shaun King pushing I'm automatically skeptical

Not that hard to find on the internet:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eugene-goodman-us-capitol-riots-police-officer-senate-chamber/

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2021/01/11/capitol-riots-officer-hailed-hero-drawing-mob-away-senate/6625175002/

And even a Fox affiliate
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/black-us-capitol-police-officer-hailed-as-hero-for-diverting-pro-trump-mob-during-riot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 11:05:47 PM
Hmmm, even a fox affiliate, therefore it must be true. ;D

I think the police officer even allows himself a wry grin as he leads the mob astray.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 11:08:42 PM
Liz Cheney voting for impeachment

Within a week the whole of the Republican party will be claiming they opposed Trump all along
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2021, 11:22:17 PM
Quoth Fox News:

Newly elected Rep. Peter Meijer, R-Mich., said Monday that the president should resign and that he is "strongly considering" voting to impeach President Trump after the Capitol Hill riot last week.

Quoth CNN:

Republican Rep. John Katko of New York said in a statement Tuesday afternoon he will vote to impeach President Donald Trump, becoming the first Republican to sign on to the Democrats' effort to hold the President accountable for his role in spurring on his supporters in last week's storming of the US Capitol.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2021, 11:47:17 PM
Like the Nazis after the war...."It was all Hitler's doing"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 01:07:16 AM
I did find this tweet very funny

https://twitter.com/JLCauvin/status/1348736447277359105

Since Sarah Palin it seems the GOP's preferred archetype for a female politician/empowerment is amateur porn librarian. Meanwhile unattractive, arrogant faux Christian continues a half century run atop the male GOP charts.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EresponXYAQ_lca?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 01:21:25 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on January 12, 2021, 10:33:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 09:02:09 PM
I read that the black Capital police officer who was  famously captured on video  tangling with and being chased up a couple of flights of stairs by a white supremacy mob,  was actually luring them away from the senate chamber into an opposite direction   He instinctively deployed the oldest trick in the 'how a black man can escape imminent white mob danger', as outlined in that famous Blazing Saddles sketch. The endangered black man has to throw the mob a bait which appeals to their white supremacy prejudices and their stupidity overwhelms any residues of rational appreciation of the situation,  allowing the black man to  not only single-handedly save democracy but also to live and fight another day.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4ED7/production/_116438102_stairs.png)

Nice story (if it's true)

Anything I see Shaun King pushing I'm automatically skeptical

Not that hard to find on the internet:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eugene-goodman-us-capitol-riots-police-officer-senate-chamber/

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2021/01/11/capitol-riots-officer-hailed-hero-drawing-mob-away-senate/6625175002/

And even a Fox affiliate
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/black-us-capitol-police-officer-hailed-as-hero-for-diverting-pro-trump-mob-during-riot
Looks like it's true alright

It's a pity he didn't shoot a couple of the cvnts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on January 13, 2021, 03:36:48 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 12, 2021, 06:33:17 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 03:09:08 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2021, 02:53:10 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:41:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: dec on January 08, 2021, 07:30:25 PM
The Washington Post has a new video of the shooting of Ashli Babbit. It shows more of the leadup to it and is about 3 minutes long

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/
http://gaaboard.com/board/Themes/default/images/smflogo.png

There's all sorts of wrong with that.

The cops abandoning their post 30 seconds before the shooting?

Then one of the rioters start shouting "there's a gun" and they keep trying to bust through??

The name of the rioter you are referring to is John Sullivan, do a thorough investigation on him.
Also do likewise with Jacob Anthony Chansley. The events of January 6th, 2021 will come more clearly into focus.

Or you could just tell me straight out why I shouldn't believe my google search that tells me the first guy wasn't involved, and the second guy isn't a right wing nutjob?

Now please don't be so lazy. You will need to learn how to do a proper investigation. No wonder the world is in such a mess.

The first guy was questioned/arrested or possibly protected and then released, I wonder why?

The second guy will probably go through with the charade as he is protected.

So one guy is a reporter and the other guy is a Qanon/Trump follower.   And your point is ... The Fake News are setting us up.... You are going to have to help me understand how you come to that conclusion.

Just because John Sullivan stated in the Capitol murder video that he is a reporter you believed him and that was good enough for you as it suited the mainstream media narrative. The Prussian Education System can only be accountable for so much.

Sullivan is a BLM/Antifa leader and a very radical one at that. He is founder of Insurgence USA an organizational site for the recruitment and mobilization of domestic terrorism. He was arrested on July on accusations of rioting, making a threat of violence, and criminal mischief due to his part in a protest that resulted in the shooting of a motorist. Here is a video of him inciting the crowd in one of his many rallies.

"We have to rip Trump out of that fcking office over there..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo0IyHfdWkI&feature=emb_logo

Sullivan uses the moniker "Jayden X" online and he tweeted the following before the Jan 6th Stop The Steal Protest:

Chud Alert: Trump Supporters targeting BLM Supporters Buses and attempting to gather pictures and addresses of where they were staying, #trumpintel #fucktrump # counterintel #chudalert


Further proof that BLM/Antifa supporters were bused in for the Jan 6th event.

Flyer for John Sullivan's Insurgence USA rally to infiltrate and thwart the Trump peaceful protest read the following:

KICK THE FASCISTS OUT OF DC JANUARY 6TH, 2021. DUMP TRUMP FOR GOOD. LOCATION WASHINGTON MONUMENT 11:00AM


He took a 50 minute video of the protest and was complicit in the murder of Ashli Babbitt as he incited three rioters to break the glass of the doors and window moments before.

He was interviewed by Police who used his video as evidence to arrest Trump supporters. He then went on his merry way. Why was this criminal not arrested?


Sullivan was a US Olympian and comes from a wealthy family.


As for Jacob Anthony Chansley, also going by the name Jake Angeli, an Actor/Voice Over, Artist/Singer and also an Agent Provocateur who plays both sides of the equation. An intelligence asset.

He has also played the role of a Left Wing Activist on September 20th, 2019 when hundreds marched in Arizona in solidarity with climate strikes around the world.

"Jake Angeli, shamanic practitioner, leads the crowd in a yell before the march in solidarity with climate activism groups across the country in the Arizona State Capital Building Friday, September 20, 2019"
NICOLE NERI/THE REPUBLIC. (There was a photograph included)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 13, 2021, 06:17:33 AM
Good man Seamus   .. keep her lit. 
You need to read more interesting Comics.
Is The Bunty still available?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 07:53:30 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 13, 2021, 03:36:48 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 12, 2021, 06:33:17 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 03:09:08 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2021, 02:53:10 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 12, 2021, 02:41:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2021, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: dec on January 08, 2021, 07:30:25 PM

Sullivan is a BLM/Antifa leader and a very radical one at that. He is founder of Insurgence USA an organizational site for the recruitment and mobilization of domestic terrorism. He was arrested on July on accusations of rioting, making a threat of violence, and criminal mischief due to his part in a protest that resulted in the shooting of a motorist. Here is a video of him inciting the crowd in one of his many rallies.


That being said in your post,

Should Trump be charged with the same thing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 08:45:11 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 13, 2021, 06:17:33 AM
Good man Seamus   .. keep her lit. 
You need to read more interesting Comics.
Is The Bunty still available?
i think it's the guardian now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:05:57 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 12, 2021, 08:32:56 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 04:18:34 PM

The Confederacy was founded and sustained by Democrats and opposed by Republicans. Nothing that has happened in the past decade or any decade can rewrite the history of a century and a half previously, and even the history of Strom Thurmond's era.

No wonder you and the left in general want to dump all the historical evidence in school names, statues etc.

Five Points ...Do me the courtesy of reading this article. Admittedly not coming out of a stable in which you would park your horse but it might give you some perspective in how the Republican Party has evolved. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-american-civil-war-didnt-end-and-trump-is-a-confederate-president

Whataboutery. It wasn't a future Republican President who eulogised a notorious racist only 17 years ago. The GOP may well have evolved (I haven't even contested that) but the evidence that the Democrats have is weak.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:07:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 04:18:34 PM

The Confederacy was founded and sustained by Democrats and opposed by Republicans. Nothing that has happened in the past decade or any decade can rewrite the history of a century and a half previously, and even the history of Strom Thurmond's era.

No wonder you and the left in general want to dump all the historical evidence in school names, statues etc.
And now it is sustained by Republicans and fought bitterly against by Democrats

Your last sentence sort of gives the game away as to your views on the Confederacy

...so bitterly that they nominate Thurmond's eulogist for President.

My sides.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:14:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 06:35:40 PM
No, your attempt to equate the GOP's decades-long southern strategy with Biden, at the request of Thurmond himself, delivering a eulogy at a friends funeral, is empty and either ignorant or dishonest.

What possible purpose could it serve Biden, a centre-left long-term Senator from Delaware, beyond doing a favour for the family of a friend?

If politics was the issue, Biden was more likely to offend his liberal Democrat base than to win any votes among conservatives (who wouldn't be voting for him anyway!).

Nobody reaches the top in politics anywhere without pandering to as many elements as possible of their party's base. Biden clearly thought there was a political benefit to him in pandering to Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base and its nostalgia for the Confederacy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 11:30:12 AM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:14:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 06:35:40 PM
No, your attempt to equate the GOP's decades-long southern strategy with Biden, at the request of Thurmond himself, delivering a eulogy at a friends funeral, is empty and either ignorant or dishonest.

What possible purpose could it serve Biden, a centre-left long-term Senator from Delaware, beyond doing a favour for the family of a friend?

If politics was the issue, Biden was more likely to offend his liberal Democrat base than to win any votes among conservatives (who wouldn't be voting for him anyway!).

Nobody reaches the top in politics anywhere without pandering to as many elements as possible of their party's base. Biden clearly thought there was a political benefit to him in pandering to Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base and its nostalgia for the Confederacy.

Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base who migrated to the GOP 35 years earlier. Those people are what Biden was concerned about? Not his liberal base back in Delaware, a state with more than a quarter of its population made up of minorities (more than 20% black)?

You go ahead and cling to your tiny bone and ignore all relevant details and facts. I'm done wasting my time with your bad faith "arguments ".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:33:08 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 11:30:12 AM
Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base who migrated to the GOP 35 years earlier. Those people are what Biden was concerned about? Not his liberal base back in Delaware, a state with more than a quarter of its population made up of minorities (more than 20% black)?

You go ahead and cling to your tiny bone and ignore all relevant details and facts. I'm done wasting my time with your bad faith "arguments ".

This cracks me up. Biden had Delaware in his pocket long before 2003.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:39:02 AM
So Biden knew in 2003 he'd be a Presidential candidate 17 years later??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 11:45:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:39:02 AM
So Biden knew in 2003 he'd be a Presidential candidate 17 years later??

Yes. He knew that Jim Clyburn would rally the black community of SC to rescue his candidacy. THAT is why he gave a eulogy for Thurmond apparently (despite in reality not) honouring the confederacy and segregation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:39:02 AM
So Biden knew in 2003 he'd be a Presidential candidate 17 years later??

He had already contested the Democratic races in 1984 and 1988.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:56:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 11:45:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:39:02 AM
So Biden knew in 2003 he'd be a Presidential candidate 17 years later??

Yes. He knew that Jim Clyburn would rally the black community of SC to rescue his candidacy. THAT is why he gave a eulogy for Thurmond apparently (despite in reality not) honouring the confederacy and segregation.

Politicians everywhere are well able to speak out of both sides of their mouth and position themselves to appeal to different constituencies. Including pandering to racists and segregationists, as Biden did here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 13, 2021, 12:04:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 12, 2021, 04:55:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 12, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
A slight deviation from the topic at hand and I am sure it has been answered but can someone remind me why we use to see a confederate flag at cork games?

The "Rebel" County

Confederates were also known as Rebels

And a good dollop of either ignorance or indifference on the meaning of the flag too.

Of course that goes for a lot more than Cork supporters.

Dukes of Hazard, Lynyrd Skynryd, Tom Petty even used it as his stage backdrop during an 80s tour...
I'd hardly compare Cork rebel county supporters use of the flag  with that in the USA.
Context defines their usage of the flag not any agenda,  just as they used the flag of many countries with red white flags,
I see the Union flags outnumber the confed flag by 4-2.

Union flag ain't so hip looking to many people either.

(https://img.rasset.ie/00149bb3-614.jpg?ratio=1.77)
maybe they are relatives of Patrick cleburne.
There's a supporter donning a mexican sombrera in there, no doubt to recall the memory of  that famous rebel Emiliano Zapata.

Batallón de San Patricio I think he's honouring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Battalion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Battalion)

I'd never heard of them until a friend of mine now living in San Antonio put up pictures of a monument to them on his travels in old Mexico.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 12:20:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 11:30:12 AM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:14:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 06:35:40 PM
No, your attempt to equate the GOP's decades-long southern strategy with Biden, at the request of Thurmond himself, delivering a eulogy at a friends funeral, is empty and either ignorant or dishonest.

What possible purpose could it serve Biden, a centre-left long-term Senator from Delaware, beyond doing a favour for the family of a friend?

If politics was the issue, Biden was more likely to offend his liberal Democrat base than to win any votes among conservatives (who wouldn't be voting for him anyway!).

Nobody reaches the top in politics anywhere without pandering to as many elements as possible of their party's base. Biden clearly thought there was a political benefit to him in pandering to Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base and its nostalgia for the Confederacy.

Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base who migrated to the GOP 35 years earlier. Those people are what Biden was concerned about? Not his liberal base back in Delaware, a state with more than a quarter of its population made up of minorities (more than 20% black)?

You go ahead and cling to your tiny bone and ignore all relevant details and facts. I'm done wasting my time with your bad faith "arguments ".

Jaysus....listening to Kamala during the debates, I could have sworn she said Joe was such a racist he was next in line to be the Grand Cyclops
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:07:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: five points on January 12, 2021, 04:18:34 PM

The Confederacy was founded and sustained by Democrats and opposed by Republicans. Nothing that has happened in the past decade or any decade can rewrite the history of a century and a half previously, and even the history of Strom Thurmond's era.

No wonder you and the left in general want to dump all the historical evidence in school names, statues etc.
And now it is sustained by Republicans and fought bitterly against by Democrats

Your last sentence sort of gives the game away as to your views on the Confederacy

...so bitterly that they nominate Thurmond's eulogist for President.

My sides.
So what's your point?

Is it that you want America to vote for somebody like AOC for president? Or perhaps somebody like Bree Newsome Bass, who literally climbed the flag pole on top of the South Carolina state house to remove the Confederate flag? Somebody like them with similar opinions?

Is Biden too centrist for you? Too conciliatory? Is he too far to the right?

Are you now saying you want all public monuments and symbols which celebrate anything to do with the Confederacy removed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 12:48:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 12:20:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 11:30:12 AM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:14:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 06:35:40 PM
No, your attempt to equate the GOP's decades-long southern strategy with Biden, at the request of Thurmond himself, delivering a eulogy at a friends funeral, is empty and either ignorant or dishonest.

What possible purpose could it serve Biden, a centre-left long-term Senator from Delaware, beyond doing a favour for the family of a friend?

If politics was the issue, Biden was more likely to offend his liberal Democrat base than to win any votes among conservatives (who wouldn't be voting for him anyway!).

Nobody reaches the top in politics anywhere without pandering to as many elements as possible of their party's base. Biden clearly thought there was a political benefit to him in pandering to Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base and its nostalgia for the Confederacy.

Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base who migrated to the GOP 35 years earlier. Those people are what Biden was concerned about? Not his liberal base back in Delaware, a state with more than a quarter of its population made up of minorities (more than 20% black)?

You go ahead and cling to your tiny bone and ignore all relevant details and facts. I'm done wasting my time with your bad faith "arguments ".

Jaysus....listening to Kamala during the debates, I could have sworn she said Joe was such a racist he was next in line to be the Grand Cyclops

And?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 12:52:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 12:40:31 PM

So what's your point?

Is it that you want America to vote for somebody like AOC for president? Or perhaps somebody like Bree Newsome Bass, who literally climbed the flag pole on top of the South Carolina state house to remove the Confederate flag? Somebody like them with similar opinions?

Is Biden too centrist for you? Too conciliatory? Is he too far to the right?

Are you now saying you want all public monuments and symbols which celebrate anything to do with the Confederacy removed?

My point is simple: Democrats are on weak ground if they want to claim moral superiority over the GOP on the Confederacy.

I think Biden erred in giving Thurmond's eulogy but I don't count it as disqualifying him. Overall he's a decent sort and he's no more a racist than any of us. I think he will do ok as President. I hope he steers clear of foreign wars as much as he can. I despise the warmonger element has infected both US parties. Had Trump bent to them, I think he'd still be President.

This has nothing to do with public monuments. No mob should be allowed demolish, remove or seriously deface any public property.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 12:52:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 12:40:31 PM

So what's your point?

Is it that you want America to vote for somebody like AOC for president? Or perhaps somebody like Bree Newsome Bass, who literally climbed the flag pole on top of the South Carolina state house to remove the Confederate flag? Somebody like them with similar opinions?

Is Biden too centrist for you? Too conciliatory? Is he too far to the right?

Are you now saying you want all public monuments and symbols which celebrate anything to do with the Confederacy removed?

My point is simple: Democrats are on weak ground if they want to claim moral superiority over the GOP on the Confederacy.

I think Biden erred in giving Thurmond's eulogy but I don't count it as disqualifying him. Overall he's a decent sort and he's no more a racist than any of us. I think he will do ok as President. I hope he steers clear of foreign wars as much as he can. I despise the warmonger element has infected both US parties. Had Trump bent to them, I think he'd still be President.

This has nothing to do with public monuments. No mob should be allowed demolish, remove or seriously deface any public property.
You didn't answer the questions

Do you think Biden is too far to the right on matters of race?

Would you prefer an AOC type or a Bree Newsome Bass type who has no truck whatsoever with people who sustained Confederate type speech, or symbols?

Do you want all public monuments and symbols which in any way celebrate the Confederacy removed?

Please answer these questions - they're important
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 12:57:48 PM

You didn't answer the questions

Do you think Biden is too far to the right on matters of race?

Would you prefer an AOC type or a Bree Newsome Bass type who has no truck whatsoever with people who sustained Confederate type speech, or symbols?

Do you want all public monuments and symbols which in any way celebrate the Confederacy removed?

Please answer these questions - they're important


What does "too far to the right on matters of race" mean? Racism infects left and right. Some of the most leftwing regimes in history were irredeemably racist. Some of the most famous leftwing icons in history were also racist. Ditto rightwing regimes and icons.

I have a low opinion of AOC and I don't know who Bree Newsome Bass is.

I think it's a ridiculous and counterproductive idea to all remove statues and monuments, but have no objection if particular monuments are removed for good reason and through proper channels. There are good reasons why local authorities across the developed world try their best to preserve the fabric of towns and cities and I don't agree with overriding that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 01:07:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 12:48:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 12:20:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 11:30:12 AM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:14:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 06:35:40 PM
No, your attempt to equate the GOP's decades-long southern strategy with Biden, at the request of Thurmond himself, delivering a eulogy at a friends funeral, is empty and either ignorant or dishonest.

What possible purpose could it serve Biden, a centre-left long-term Senator from Delaware, beyond doing a favour for the family of a friend?

If politics was the issue, Biden was more likely to offend his liberal Democrat base than to win any votes among conservatives (who wouldn't be voting for him anyway!).

Nobody reaches the top in politics anywhere without pandering to as many elements as possible of their party's base. Biden clearly thought there was a political benefit to him in pandering to Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base and its nostalgia for the Confederacy.

Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base who migrated to the GOP 35 years earlier. Those people are what Biden was concerned about? Not his liberal base back in Delaware, a state with more than a quarter of its population made up of minorities (more than 20% black)?

You go ahead and cling to your tiny bone and ignore all relevant details and facts. I'm done wasting my time with your bad faith "arguments ".

Jaysus....listening to Kamala during the debates, I could have sworn she said Joe was such a racist he was next in line to be the Grand Cyclops

And?

Maybe Kamala was right and he is a racist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 01:07:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 01:07:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 12:48:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 12:20:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 11:30:12 AM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 11:14:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 12, 2021, 06:35:40 PM
No, your attempt to equate the GOP's decades-long southern strategy with Biden, at the request of Thurmond himself, delivering a eulogy at a friends funeral, is empty and either ignorant or dishonest.

What possible purpose could it serve Biden, a centre-left long-term Senator from Delaware, beyond doing a favour for the family of a friend?

If politics was the issue, Biden was more likely to offend his liberal Democrat base than to win any votes among conservatives (who wouldn't be voting for him anyway!).

Nobody reaches the top in politics anywhere without pandering to as many elements as possible of their party's base. Biden clearly thought there was a political benefit to him in pandering to Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base and its nostalgia for the Confederacy.

Thurmond's racist southern Democrat base who migrated to the GOP 35 years earlier. Those people are what Biden was concerned about? Not his liberal base back in Delaware, a state with more than a quarter of its population made up of minorities (more than 20% black)?

You go ahead and cling to your tiny bone and ignore all relevant details and facts. I'm done wasting my time with your bad faith "arguments ".

Jaysus....listening to Kamala during the debates, I could have sworn she said Joe was such a racist he was next in line to be the Grand Cyclops

And?

Maybe Kamala was right and he is a racist

er.. ok.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 01:11:49 PM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 12:57:48 PM

You didn't answer the questions

Do you think Biden is too far to the right on matters of race?

Would you prefer an AOC type or a Bree Newsome Bass type who has no truck whatsoever with people who sustained Confederate type speech, or symbols?

Do you want all public monuments and symbols which in any way celebrate the Confederacy removed?

Please answer these questions - they're important


What does "too far to the right on matters of race" mean? Racism infects left and right. Some of the most leftwing regimes in history were irredeemably racist. Some of the most famous leftwing icons in history were also racist. Ditto rightwing regimes and icons.

I have a low opinion of AOC and I don't know who Bree Newsome Bass is.

I think it's a ridiculous and counterproductive idea to all remove statues and monuments, but have no objection if particular monuments are removed for good reason and through proper channels. There are good reasons why local authorities across the developed world try their best to preserve the fabric of towns and cities and I don't agree with overriding that.

I agree "proper channels" is important and mobs tearing down statues is not productive, for the most part.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 12:57:48 PM

You didn't answer the questions

Do you think Biden is too far to the right on matters of race?

Would you prefer an AOC type or a Bree Newsome Bass type who has no truck whatsoever with people who sustained Confederate type speech, or symbols?

Do you want all public monuments and symbols which in any way celebrate the Confederacy removed?

Please answer these questions - they're important


What does "too far to the right on matters of race" mean? Racism infects left and right. Some of the most leftwing regimes in history were irredeemably racist. Some of the most famous leftwing icons in history were also racist. Ditto rightwing regimes and icons.

I have a low opinion of AOC and I don't know who Bree Newsome Bass is.

I think it's a ridiculous and counterproductive idea to all remove statues and monuments, but have no objection if particular monuments are removed for good reason and through proper channels. There are good reasons why local authorities across the developed world try their best to preserve the fabric of towns and cities and I don't agree with overriding that.
You're obfuscating

You came in here to try and make out Biden was not far enough to the left on matters of race, that he was not anti-Confederate enough

Yet you refuse to reveal whether you yourself had a problem with Biden delivering a eulogy for Strom Thurmond

You say you have a "low" opinion of AOC - would that "low" opinion be connected to her stance on matters of race by any chance?

So you don't want all statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy removed?

Why not? These statues and symbols are celebrating not just racism, but slavery

So why shouldn't they all be removed?

Given your stance on statues and symbols and that if they are removed it's important they be done through "proper channels", I presume you had a problem with people knocking down the Berlin Wall or pulling down other Communist statues in the former iron curtain countries in 1989

I didn't



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 12:57:48 PM

You didn't answer the questions

Do you think Biden is too far to the right on matters of race?

Would you prefer an AOC type or a Bree Newsome Bass type who has no truck whatsoever with people who sustained Confederate type speech, or symbols?

Do you want all public monuments and symbols which in any way celebrate the Confederacy removed?

Please answer these questions - they're important


What does "too far to the right on matters of race" mean? Racism infects left and right. Some of the most leftwing regimes in history were irredeemably racist. Some of the most famous leftwing icons in history were also racist. Ditto rightwing regimes and icons.

I have a low opinion of AOC and I don't know who Bree Newsome Bass is.

I think it's a ridiculous and counterproductive idea to all remove statues and monuments, but have no objection if particular monuments are removed for good reason and through proper channels. There are good reasons why local authorities across the developed world try their best to preserve the fabric of towns and cities and I don't agree with overriding that.
You're obfuscating

You came in here to try and make out Biden was not far enough to the left on matters of race, that he was not anti-Confederate enough

Yet you refuse to reveal whether you yourself had a problem with Biden delivering a eulogy for Strom Thurmond

You say you have a "low" opinion of AOC - would that "low" opinion be connected to her stance on matters of race by any chance?

So you don't want all statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy removed?

Why not? These statues and symbols are celebrating not just racism, but slavery

So why shouldn't they all be removed?

Given your stance on statues and symbols and that if they are removed it's important they be done through "proper channels", I presume you had a problem with people knocking down the Berlin Wall or pulling down other Communist statues in the former iron curtain countries in 1989

I didn't

I don't have to answer your questions.  You didn't answer mine. And you are not my interrogator. I gave my answers in good faith but you seem hopeful that I will say something that will paint me as a racist. I'm not playing that game.

I've told you that I'm happy to give Biden the benefit of the doubt on Thurmond.

I think it's regrettable that the Berlin Wall was almost entirely demolished, but no more than that.

There are processes in place in every city and country to remove statues where this may be deemed necessary. Allow these processes to function and do their job.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 01:39:18 PM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 12:57:48 PM

You didn't answer the questions

Do you think Biden is too far to the right on matters of race?

Would you prefer an AOC type or a Bree Newsome Bass type who has no truck whatsoever with people who sustained Confederate type speech, or symbols?

Do you want all public monuments and symbols which in any way celebrate the Confederacy removed?

Please answer these questions - they're important


What does "too far to the right on matters of race" mean? Racism infects left and right. Some of the most leftwing regimes in history were irredeemably racist. Some of the most famous leftwing icons in history were also racist. Ditto rightwing regimes and icons.

I have a low opinion of AOC and I don't know who Bree Newsome Bass is.

I think it's a ridiculous and counterproductive idea to all remove statues and monuments, but have no objection if particular monuments are removed for good reason and through proper channels. There are good reasons why local authorities across the developed world try their best to preserve the fabric of towns and cities and I don't agree with overriding that.
You're obfuscating

You came in here to try and make out Biden was not far enough to the left on matters of race, that he was not anti-Confederate enough

Yet you refuse to reveal whether you yourself had a problem with Biden delivering a eulogy for Strom Thurmond

You say you have a "low" opinion of AOC - would that "low" opinion be connected to her stance on matters of race by any chance?

So you don't want all statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy removed?

Why not? These statues and symbols are celebrating not just racism, but slavery

So why shouldn't they all be removed?

Given your stance on statues and symbols and that if they are removed it's important they be done through "proper channels", I presume you had a problem with people knocking down the Berlin Wall or pulling down other Communist statues in the former iron curtain countries in 1989

I didn't

I don't have to answer your questions.  You didn't answer mine. And you are not my interrogator. I gave my answers in good faith but you seem hopeful that I will say something that will paint me as a racist. I'm not playing that game.

I've told you that I'm happy to give Biden the benefit of the doubt on Thurmond.

I think it's regrettable that the Berlin Wall was almost entirely demolished, but no more than that.

There are processes in place in every city and country to remove statues where this may be deemed necessary. Allow these processes to function and do their job.

Again you're totally obfuscating

In your opinion, was Biden wrong to deliver a eulogy at Strom Thurmond's funeral?

If so, why?

If you don't believe so, why bring it up?

Do you disagree with AOC's stance on race matters? If so, how?

Why should any public statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy, and which which thus celebrate slavery, remain standing, or in official use?

Did you, on November 9th, 1989, when you presumably watched the pictures of people in Berlin drilling and hammering the Berlin Wall, say to yourself, "oh this is wrong, they should be going through the proper channels"?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 01:39:18 PM

Again you're totally obfuscating
That's my privilege. I can answer if and when I want. Or I can ignore you. This is not an interrogation.


Quote

In your opinion, was Biden wrong to deliver a eulogy at Strom Thurmond's funeral?
Yes
Quote
If so, why?
I've said why.

Quote
If you don't believe so, why bring it up?
I've told you why I brought it up.
Quote
Do you disagree with AOC's stance on race matters? If so, how?

I consider her a race baiter and race hustler. I don't have to justify that opinion and I'm not asking you to agree with it.
Quote
Why should any public statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy, and which which thus celebrate slavery, remain standing, or in official use?

That's not up to me to decide.
Quote
Did you, on November 9th, 1989, when you presumably watched the pictures of people in Berlin drilling and hammering the Berlin Wall, say to yourself, "oh this is wrong, they should be going through the proper channels"?

I can't even remember where I was that night. Can you? I probably didn't say that to myself but I'd like to think that I've informed my opinion on many topics over the past 31 years. Maybe your opinions on our built and natural environment have been frozen since 1989?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:02:41 PM
Quote from: five points on January 13, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 01:39:18 PM

Again you're totally obfuscating
That's my privilege. I can answer if and when I want. Or I can ignore you. This is not an interrogation.


It is your privilege but it's a discussion forum - generally people obfuscate when they've been asked questions they don't want to answer because they can't stand over their views

Quote

In your opinion, was Biden wrong to deliver a eulogy at Strom Thurmond's funeral?
Yes

I would agree - but in my view he did the wrong thing for the right reasons - he did it out of kindness - that doesn't mean I think he was right
Quote
If so, why?
I've said why.

Have you? I haven't seen where? Could you reiterate, reference or or copy and paste where you have done this?

Quote
If you don't believe so, why bring it up?
I've told you why I brought it up.

Again, where?
Quote
Do you disagree with AOC's stance on race matters? If so, how?

I consider her a race baiter and race hustler.  I'm not asking you to agree.

How exactly is she a "race baiter"? What is a race baiter? Do you believe the predominant ideology of the Republican party is of "race baiting"? Or outright racism?
Quote
Why should any public statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy, and which which thus celebrate slavery, remain standing, or in official use?

That's not up to me to decide.

It isn't up to you decide but it wouldn't trouble you too much to give an opinion, especially given that you have previously implied or stated that not all Confederate statues and symbols should be removed from official use
Quote
Did you, on November 9th, 1989, when you presumably watched the pictures of people in Berlin drilling and hammering the Berlin Wall, say to yourself, "oh this is wrong, they should be going through the proper channels"?

I can't even remember where I was that night. Can you? I probably didn't say that to myself but I'd like to think that I've informed my opinion on many topics over the past 31 years. Maybe your opinions on our built and natural environment have been frozen since 1989?

Yes I can, I was watching the television in my front room, and it felt like we were watching something wonderful in history

People knocking down the Berlin Wall that night did not "go through the proper channels" - they took matters into their own hands, literally - I was lucky enough that I got to hammer out a small piece of it myself the following July when I visited Berlin, I still have it somewhere

Small parts of the Berlin Wall do indeed remain, by the way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: five points on January 13, 2021, 02:09:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

They'll probably be all for it, just as they'd be for knocking statues of nuns and priests today.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Irish Republicans come from all sorts of political standpoints

US Republicans who are against the removal of Confederate statues and symbols are defending the celebration of an ideology which would be very close to that of Hitler
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Irish Republicans come from all sorts of political standpoints

US Republicans who are against the removal of Confederate statues and symbols are defending the celebration of an ideology which would be very close to that of Hitler

No they don't

Irish Republicans are overwhelmingly socialist and Marxist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".

Why do they need to be defined?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:43:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Irish Republicans come from all sorts of political standpoints

US Republicans who are against the removal of Confederate statues and symbols are defending the celebration of an ideology which would be very close to that of Hitler

No they don't

Irish Republicans are overwhelmingly socialist and Marxist
You think Sinn Fein are Marxist?

Right

You really have been gone from Ireland a long time, haven't you

Marxism is a legitimate political ideology, by the way

Slavery isn't
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".
"whitey's" post here is defending political corectness

He is saying that there should be no debate over removing statues - that those who want them removed should be silenced

That's exactly what political correctness is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:46:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:43:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Irish Republicans come from all sorts of political standpoints

US Republicans who are against the removal of Confederate statues and symbols are defending the celebration of an ideology which would be very close to that of Hitler

No they don't

Irish Republicans are overwhelmingly socialist and Marxist
You think Sinn Fein are Marxist?

Right

You really have been gone from Ireland a long time, haven't you

Marxism is a legitimate political ideology, by the way

Slavery isn't


I'm sure the tens of millions who perished in the Gulags would respectfully disagree with you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".

Why do they need to be defined?

Because you seem to imply the statues are now controversial because some single individual just decided out of the blue one day that they were an issue to be inflicted on the "people".

Is that an incorrect interpretation?

I also like you lump reconciliation and political correctness in together. Is reconciliation illegitimate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".
"whitey's" post here is defending political corectness

He is saying that there should be no debate over statues

That's exactly what political correctness is

No-I'm relishing the day when those who use PC to score political points have it turned back on them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:50:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:46:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:43:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Irish Republicans come from all sorts of political standpoints

US Republicans who are against the removal of Confederate statues and symbols are defending the celebration of an ideology which would be very close to that of Hitler

No they don't

Irish Republicans are overwhelmingly socialist and Marxist
You think Sinn Fein are Marxist?

Right

You really have been gone from Ireland a long time, haven't you

Marxism is a legitimate political ideology, by the way

Slavery isn't


I'm sure the tens of millions who perished in the Gulags would respectfully disagree with you
Slavery and Marxist ideology are entirely separate things

Slavery and the Confederacy are indivisible

The Condfederacy existed in order to maintain slavery

Those who argue who for Conferderate statues and symbols to remain standing are arguing in favour of the celebration of slavery

That is not a legitimate ideology
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:50:27 PM
Trump talks about "people" all the time to try to lend his nonsense and lies an air of legitimacy. "People are saying" this or "they say" that.

Just yesterday he said ""People thought that what I said was totally appropriate" in reference to his rabble rousing of the mob to go riot at the Capitol, including to try to hunt down Mike Pence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".

Why do they need to be defined?

Because you seem to imply the statues are now controversial because some single individual just decided out of the blue one day that they were an issue to be inflicted on the "people".

Is that an incorrect interpretation?

I also like you lump reconciliation and political correctness in together. Is reconciliation illegitimate?

I didn't say the were "now" controversial

I implied that in 50 years time when viewed through a different lens (by people who were born after the troubles) in all likelihood there would be enough opposition to warrant their removal
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:52:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".
"whitey's" post here is defending political corectness

He is saying that there should be no debate over statues

That's exactly what political correctness is

No-I'm relishing the day when those who use PC to score political points have it turned back on them

What does that even mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".
"whitey's" post here is defending political corectness

He is saying that there should be no debate over statues

That's exactly what political correctness is

No-I'm relishing the day when those who use PC to score political points have it turned back on them
No, you are defending right wing political correctness - which is tyranny

Your entire ideology is about defending right wing political correctness/tyranny - and the celebration of it

Right-wing politics such as yours is the biggest defender of ludicrous political correctness there is



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:53:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".

Why do they need to be defined?

Because you seem to imply the statues are now controversial because some single individual just decided out of the blue one day that they were an issue to be inflicted on the "people".

Is that an incorrect interpretation?

I also like you lump reconciliation and political correctness in together. Is reconciliation illegitimate?

I didn't say the were "now" controversial

I implied that in 50 years time when viewed through a different lens (by people who were born after the troubles) in all likelihood there would be enough opposition to warrant their removal

You're equating them to the confederate statues. Those ARE now controversial.

On the second point, so what?

Societies change.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".

Why do they need to be defined?

Because you seem to imply the statues are now controversial because some single individual just decided out of the blue one day that they were an issue to be inflicted on the "people".

Is that an incorrect interpretation?

I also like you lump reconciliation and political correctness in together. Is reconciliation illegitimate?

I didn't say the were "now" controversial

I implied that in 50 years time when viewed through a different lens (by people who were born after the troubles) in all likelihood there would be enough opposition to warrant their removal
And if that were to be the case, what would the problem be?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:50:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:46:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:43:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Irish Republicans come from all sorts of political standpoints

US Republicans who are against the removal of Confederate statues and symbols are defending the celebration of an ideology which would be very close to that of Hitler

No they don't

Irish Republicans are overwhelmingly socialist and Marxist
You think Sinn Fein are Marxist?

Right

You really have been gone from Ireland a long time, haven't you

Marxism is a legitimate political ideology, by the way

Slavery isn't


I'm sure the tens of millions who perished in the Gulags would respectfully disagree with you
Slavery and Marxist ideology are entirely separate things

Slavery and the Confederacy are indivisible

The Condfederacy existed in order to maintain slavery

Those who argue who for Conferderate statues and symbols to remain standing are arguing in favour of the celebration of slavery

That is not a legitimate ideology

Eh....Monuments to Republicans in the 6 counties have nothing to do with the confederacy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".

Why do they need to be defined?

Because you seem to imply the statues are now controversial because some single individual just decided out of the blue one day that they were an issue to be inflicted on the "people".

Is that an incorrect interpretation?

I also like you lump reconciliation and political correctness in together. Is reconciliation illegitimate?

I didn't say the were "now" controversial

I implied that in 50 years time when viewed through a different lens (by people who were born after the troubles) in all likelihood there would be enough opposition to warrant their removal
And if that were to be the case, what would the problem be?

Who said there would be a problem?

I'm asking what would the reaction of the families of the hunger strikers and Republican martyrs be?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:50:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:46:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:43:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Irish Republicans come from all sorts of political standpoints

US Republicans who are against the removal of Confederate statues and symbols are defending the celebration of an ideology which would be very close to that of Hitler

No they don't

Irish Republicans are overwhelmingly socialist and Marxist
You think Sinn Fein are Marxist?

Right

You really have been gone from Ireland a long time, haven't you

Marxism is a legitimate political ideology, by the way

Slavery isn't


I'm sure the tens of millions who perished in the Gulags would respectfully disagree with you
Slavery and Marxist ideology are entirely separate things

Slavery and the Confederacy are indivisible

The Condfederacy existed in order to maintain slavery

Those who argue who for Conferderate statues and symbols to remain standing are arguing in favour of the celebration of slavery

That is not a legitimate ideology

Eh....Monuments to Republicans in the 6 counties have nothing to do with the confederacy
You were the one who said they did

Now you're saying they don't

You're all over the place
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 03:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:42:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?

Define "someone" and "people".

Why do they need to be defined?

Because you seem to imply the statues are now controversial because some single individual just decided out of the blue one day that they were an issue to be inflicted on the "people".

Is that an incorrect interpretation?

I also like you lump reconciliation and political correctness in together. Is reconciliation illegitimate?

I didn't say the were "now" controversial

I implied that in 50 years time when viewed through a different lens (by people who were born after the troubles) in all likelihood there would be enough opposition to warrant their removal
And if that were to be the case, what would the problem be?

Who said there would be a problem?

I'm asking what would the reaction of the families of the hunger strikers and Republican martyrs be?
You did
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 03:14:34 PM
Sid

Show me where I said there would be a problem?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 03:18:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:50:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:46:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:43:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Irish Republicans come from all sorts of political standpoints

US Republicans who are against the removal of Confederate statues and symbols are defending the celebration of an ideology which would be very close to that of Hitler

No they don't

Irish Republicans are overwhelmingly socialist and Marxist
You think Sinn Fein are Marxist?

Right

You really have been gone from Ireland a long time, haven't you

Marxism is a legitimate political ideology, by the way

Slavery isn't


I'm sure the tens of millions who perished in the Gulags would respectfully disagree with you
Slavery and Marxist ideology are entirely separate things

Slavery and the Confederacy are indivisible

The Condfederacy existed in order to maintain slavery

Those who argue who for Conferderate statues and symbols to remain standing are arguing in favour of the celebration of slavery

That is not a legitimate ideology

Eh....Monuments to Republicans in the 6 counties have nothing to do with the confederacy
You were the one who said they did

Now you're saying they don't

You're all over the place

Actually I didn't



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 03:14:34 PM
Sid

Show me where I said there would be a problem?
You set up a hypothetical scenario 50 years into the future where there is opposition to monuments to people involved in the Troubles

You were clearly implying that this would be a problem - that this opposition should not be allowed - you hoped that people would answer "oh, but that's different"

You expected that I would answer a certain way, to create a bad faith "gotcha" moment for you

When I answered in the opposite way to what you expected, you were stumped

I have no idea why you compared monuments to people involved in the Troubles to Confederate monuments in the first place, as if they are in any way equivalent

Neither do you - which is why you first did exactly that, and then wondered why anybody would do that, even though had just done that exact thing

The central point here is that you clearly have a big, big problem with the removal of Confederate monuments, and instead of admitting that, you look for any sort of obfuscation to come with ludicrous "logic" as to why they shouldn't be removed

It is a demonstration of appalling ideology, appalling bad faith debating, and appalling obfuscation

The real question is why you have a problem with the removal of Confederate monuments - and that can only be explained by your rotten ideology

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 03:18:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:50:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:46:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:43:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
So in 50 years time, when someone decides that monuments to the Troubles and the Hunger Strikers are now offensive, how will people feel about their forced removal in the name of reconciliation and political correctness?
You're obfuscating and deciding to remove all critical thinking

By far the most appropriate comparison to official statues and symbols which celebrate the Confederacy are official statues and symbols which celebrated Nazism

Do you think official statues and symbols which celebrate Nazism should be still in use?

Political correctness is overwhelmingly a right wing phenomenon

Republicans are Marxists....nothing to do with Hitler
Irish Republicans come from all sorts of political standpoints

US Republicans who are against the removal of Confederate statues and symbols are defending the celebration of an ideology which would be very close to that of Hitler

No they don't

Irish Republicans are overwhelmingly socialist and Marxist
You think Sinn Fein are Marxist?

Right

You really have been gone from Ireland a long time, haven't you

Marxism is a legitimate political ideology, by the way

Slavery isn't


I'm sure the tens of millions who perished in the Gulags would respectfully disagree with you
Slavery and Marxist ideology are entirely separate things

Slavery and the Confederacy are indivisible

The Condfederacy existed in order to maintain slavery

Those who argue who for Conferderate statues and symbols to remain standing are arguing in favour of the celebration of slavery

That is not a legitimate ideology

Eh....Monuments to Republicans in the 6 counties have nothing to do with the confederacy
You were the one who said they did

Now you're saying they don't

You're all over the place

Actually I didn't
You were the person who directly compared them, so yes you did
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 03:30:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 03:14:34 PM
Sid

Show me where I said there would be a problem?
You set up a hypothetical scenario 50 years into the future where there is opposition to monuments to people involved in the Troubles

You were clearly implying that this would be a problem - that this opposition should not be allowed - you hoped that people would answer "oh, but that's different"

You expected that I would answer a certain way, to create a bad faith "gotcha" moment for you

When I answered in the opposite way to what you expected, you were stumped

I have no idea why you compared monuments to people involved in the Troubles to Confederate monuments in the first place, as if they are in any way equivalent

Neither do you - which is why you first did exactly that, and then wondered why anybody would do that, even though had just done that exact thing

The central point here is that you clearly have a big, big problem with the removal of Confederate monuments, and instead of admitting that, you look for any sort of obfuscation to come with ludicrous "logic" as to why they shouldn't be removed

It is a demonstration of appalling ideology, appalling bad faith debating, and appalling obfuscation

The real question is why you have a problem with the removal of Confederate monuments - and that can only be explained by your rotten ideology

Actually I'm all for removing Confederate monuments and flags from public spaces and buildings

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:34 PM
NYC is cancelling Trump's contracts with the city to operate the two ice rinks and the carousel in Central Park, as well as a golf course in the Bronx.

About time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 03:30:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2021, 03:14:34 PM
Sid

Show me where I said there would be a problem?
You set up a hypothetical scenario 50 years into the future where there is opposition to monuments to people involved in the Troubles

You were clearly implying that this would be a problem - that this opposition should not be allowed - you hoped that people would answer "oh, but that's different"

You expected that I would answer a certain way, to create a bad faith "gotcha" moment for you

When I answered in the opposite way to what you expected, you were stumped

I have no idea why you compared monuments to people involved in the Troubles to Confederate monuments in the first place, as if they are in any way equivalent

Neither do you - which is why you first did exactly that, and then wondered why anybody would do that, even though had just done that exact thing

The central point here is that you clearly have a big, big problem with the removal of Confederate monuments, and instead of admitting that, you look for any sort of obfuscation to come with ludicrous "logic" as to why they shouldn't be removed

It is a demonstration of appalling ideology, appalling bad faith debating, and appalling obfuscation

The real question is why you have a problem with the removal of Confederate monuments - and that can only be explained by your rotten ideology

Actually I'm all for removing Confederate monuments and flags from public spaces and buildings
I don't ever remember you saying this before, but if so, good
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:34 PM
NYC is cancelling Trump's contracts with the city to operate the two ice rinks and the carousel in Central Park, as well as a golf course in the Bronx.

About time.
great work by nyc,  hows the vaccine rollout going ? I see cuomo saying we need to open up or there will be nothing left to open recently big change of tune there .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:34 PM
NYC is cancelling Trump's contracts with the city to operate the two ice rinks and the carousel in Central Park, as well as a golf course in the Bronx.

About time.
great work by nyc,  hows the vaccine rollout going ? I see cuomo saying we need to open up or there will be nothing left to open recently big change of tune there .

What does Trump contracts (a city issue) have to do with the vaccine (a state issue)?

Vaccination program, off to a fairly slow start like everywhere, has moved on to "phase 1B" and they are getting a bunch of new sites opened to allow people to get it. Think they passed half a million doses administered at the weekend.

His "reopening" comments appear to be based on the realization that the vaccination program is going to take most of the year, so they're trying to ramp up testing even more to facilitate loosening restrictions. Getting a test has not been a problem here, unlike many other places. However, you often did have to queue for a couple of hours, so extra capacity would obviously make things easier.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 07:00:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:34 PM
NYC is cancelling Trump's contracts with the city to operate the two ice rinks and the carousel in Central Park, as well as a golf course in the Bronx.

About time.
great work by nyc,  hows the vaccine rollout going ? I see cuomo saying we need to open up or there will be nothing left to open recently big change of tune there .

What does Trump contracts (a city issue) have to do with the vaccine (a state issue)?

Vaccination program, off to a fairly slow start like everywhere, has moved on to "phase 1B" and they are getting a bunch of new sites opened to allow people to get it. Think they passed half a million doses administered at the weekend.

His "reopening" comments appear to be based on the realization that the vaccination program is going to take most of the year, so they're trying to ramp up testing even more to facilitate loosening restrictions. Getting a test has not been a problem here, unlike many other places. However, you often did have to queue for a couple of hours, so extra capacity would obviously make things easier.

Was looking to head to New York in October... how far on would the vaccine program be?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2021, 07:21:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 07:00:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:34 PM
NYC is cancelling Trump's contracts with the city to operate the two ice rinks and the carousel in Central Park, as well as a golf course in the Bronx.

About time.
great work by nyc,  hows the vaccine rollout going ? I see cuomo saying we need to open up or there will be nothing left to open recently big change of tune there .

What does Trump contracts (a city issue) have to do with the vaccine (a state issue)?

Vaccination program, off to a fairly slow start like everywhere, has moved on to "phase 1B" and they are getting a bunch of new sites opened to allow people to get it. Think they passed half a million doses administered at the weekend.

His "reopening" comments appear to be based on the realization that the vaccination program is going to take most of the year, so they're trying to ramp up testing even more to facilitate loosening restrictions. Getting a test has not been a problem here, unlike many other places. However, you often did have to queue for a couple of hours, so extra capacity would obviously make things easier.

Was looking to head to New York in October... how far on would the vaccine program be?

Should be good to go

I'm low risk and am looking at Summer before I get it

If 55% are vaccinated, "herd mentality" begins to kick in
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Walter Cronc on January 13, 2021, 07:30:00 PM
Is Trump likely to get impeached or not lads?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 07:39:56 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 13, 2021, 07:30:00 PM
Is Trump likely to get impeached or not lads?

100%. Even Liz Cheney is ready to stick the knife in.

Question is whether the Senate will convict.

Word is that McConnell is willing to vote for removal (to get started on removing the Trump cancer from the party) but will not bring the Senate back early. If Schumer is allowed to run the trial AFTER Trump is gone from office, then he may very well be convicted if enough Republicans follow McConnell (and this assumes the reports about McConnell are true. I haven't seen any denial yet).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 07:00:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:34 PM
NYC is cancelling Trump's contracts with the city to operate the two ice rinks and the carousel in Central Park, as well as a golf course in the Bronx.

About time.
great work by nyc,  hows the vaccine rollout going ? I see cuomo saying we need to open up or there will be nothing left to open recently big change of tune there .

What does Trump contracts (a city issue) have to do with the vaccine (a state issue)?

Vaccination program, off to a fairly slow start like everywhere, has moved on to "phase 1B" and they are getting a bunch of new sites opened to allow people to get it. Think they passed half a million doses administered at the weekend.

His "reopening" comments appear to be based on the realization that the vaccination program is going to take most of the year, so they're trying to ramp up testing even more to facilitate loosening restrictions. Getting a test has not been a problem here, unlike many other places. However, you often did have to queue for a couple of hours, so extra capacity would obviously make things easier.

Was looking to head to New York in October... how far on would the vaccine program be?

f**king hope it will be well on!

As whitey says, they should at least be well on the way to herd immunity by then.

DeBlasio was hoping to get one million/month vaccinated, once things get moving. IF (big if) they achieve that rate, then you'd be looking at the city completing its program around September/October.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 08:34:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 07:00:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:34 PM
NYC is cancelling Trump's contracts with the city to operate the two ice rinks and the carousel in Central Park, as well as a golf course in the Bronx.

About time.
great work by nyc,  hows the vaccine rollout going ? I see cuomo saying we need to open up or there will be nothing left to open recently big change of tune there .

What does Trump contracts (a city issue) have to do with the vaccine (a state issue)?

Vaccination program, off to a fairly slow start like everywhere, has moved on to "phase 1B" and they are getting a bunch of new sites opened to allow people to get it. Think they passed half a million doses administered at the weekend.

His "reopening" comments appear to be based on the realization that the vaccination program is going to take most of the year, so they're trying to ramp up testing even more to facilitate loosening restrictions. Getting a test has not been a problem here, unlike many other places. However, you often did have to queue for a couple of hours, so extra capacity would obviously make things easier.

Was looking to head to New York in October... how far on would the vaccine program be?

f**king hope it will be well on!

As whitey says, they should at least be well on the way to herd immunity by then.

DeBlasio was hoping to get one million/month vaccinated, once things get moving. IF (big if) they achieve that rate, then you'd be looking at the city completing its program around September/October.
did cuomo ever get that independent group to examine the vaccine?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 08:54:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 08:34:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 07:00:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:34 PM
NYC is cancelling Trump's contracts with the city to operate the two ice rinks and the carousel in Central Park, as well as a golf course in the Bronx.

About time.
great work by nyc,  hows the vaccine rollout going ? I see cuomo saying we need to open up or there will be nothing left to open recently big change of tune there .

What does Trump contracts (a city issue) have to do with the vaccine (a state issue)?

Vaccination program, off to a fairly slow start like everywhere, has moved on to "phase 1B" and they are getting a bunch of new sites opened to allow people to get it. Think they passed half a million doses administered at the weekend.

His "reopening" comments appear to be based on the realization that the vaccination program is going to take most of the year, so they're trying to ramp up testing even more to facilitate loosening restrictions. Getting a test has not been a problem here, unlike many other places. However, you often did have to queue for a couple of hours, so extra capacity would obviously make things easier.

Was looking to head to New York in October... how far on would the vaccine program be?

f**king hope it will be well on!

As whitey says, they should at least be well on the way to herd immunity by then.

DeBlasio was hoping to get one million/month vaccinated, once things get moving. IF (big if) they achieve that rate, then you'd be looking at the city completing its program around September/October.
did cuomo ever get that independent group to examine the vaccine?
Apparently so.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-new-york-state-clinical-advisory-task-force-approves-moderna-vaccine#:~:text=York%20State%20Yesterday-,Governor%20Andrew%20M.,vaccine%20in%20New%20York%20State. (https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-new-york-state-clinical-advisory-task-force-approves-moderna-vaccine#:~:text=York%20State%20Yesterday-,Governor%20Andrew%20M.,vaccine%20in%20New%20York%20State.)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.
have they nothing better to do he's out in 7 days .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:30:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.
have they nothing better to do he's out in 7 days .

So what do you think the appropriate response is to what Trump did?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.

One term.

Lost popular vote twice.

Lost the WH, the House and the Senate in the space of two years.

Ripped tiny children out of their parents arms and shipped them across the country.

Praised the mob who invaded the Capitol building, hunting for the VP and the Speaker of the House, resulting in the death of five people.

Impeached twice.

Worst president ever.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 13, 2021, 09:43:25 PM
Congratulations Donald, the most bigly amount of impeachments by a President ever !!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:49:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.

One term.

Lost popular vote twice.

Lost the WH, the House and the Senate in the space of two years.

Ripped tiny children out of their parents arms and shipped them across the country.

Praised the mob who invaded the Capitol building, hunting for the VP and the Speaker of the House, resulting in the death of five people.

Impeached twice.

Worst president ever.

Without a doubt the worst ever president. Fair play to the 10 Republicans that voted yes to get him impeached.

(https://i.ibb.co/CPpy7TZ/IMG-20210113-214626-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wcZqWxX)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 13, 2021, 09:56:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.

One term.

Lost popular vote twice.

Lost the WH, the House and the Senate in the space of two years.

Ripped tiny children out of their parents arms and shipped them across the country.

Praised the mob who invaded the Capitol building, hunting for the VP and the Speaker of the House, resulting in the death of five people.

Impeached twice.

Worst president ever.
Infamy, infamy. They've all got it in for me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 13, 2021, 10:17:42 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.
What really worries me is that millions of Americans apparently believe just about everything he says. I can't see him fading into the background or at the very least resuming his business activities. That man will continue causing trouble until American are prepared to face the realitymthan the Donald is deranged and in need f psychiatric help.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:25:08 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 13, 2021, 10:17:42 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.
What really worries me is that millions of Americans apparently believe just about everything he says. I can't see him fading into the background or at the very least resuming his business activities. That man will continue causing trouble until American are prepared to face the realitymthan the Donald is deranged and in need f psychiatric help.

He'll hardly pay for a re-election campaign, if the media bans continue he'll have no platform, he'll fade away, if banks start calling in his debt he'll jump ship.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 13, 2021, 10:32:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:25:08 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 13, 2021, 10:17:42 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.
What really worries me is that millions of Americans apparently believe just about everything he says. I can't see him fading into the background or at the very least resuming his business activities. That man will continue causing trouble until American are prepared to face the realitymthan the Donald is deranged and in need f psychiatric help.

He'll hardly pay for a re-election campaign, if the media bans continue he'll have no platform, he'll fade away, if banks start calling in his debt he'll jump ship.
Deutche Bank ane probably the scummiest bank on planet earth, they and Trump are made for each other. The most positive outcome is that they fight each other to the death.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 10:32:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:30:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.
have they nothing better to do he's out in 7 days .

So what do you think the appropriate response is to what Trump did?
the same congress who stood by last year and cheered on violence and looting, f them they couldn't care less about small businesses being burned down or mobs showing up at politicians houses in the middle of the night or harassing people at restaurants but when they show up at their place of work it's a different story .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2021, 10:56:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 10:32:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:30:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.
have they nothing better to do he's out in 7 days .

So what do you think the appropriate response is to what Trump did?
the same congress who stood by last year and cheered on violence and looting, f them they couldn't care less about small businesses being burned down or mobs showing up at politicians houses in the middle of the night or harassing people at restaurants but when they show up at their place of work it's a different story .

Are you being serious?

1. Rioters from the summer were/are investigated and charged. Some local, some state, some federally as with the Minneapolis police station arsonists. Those issues had nothing to do with the Congress. Just like the Capitol rioters are being investigated by the FBI.

2. What does someone getting yelled at at a restaurant have to do with anything? Any more than Mitt Romney or Lindsay Graham getting yelled at in airports last week?

3. Which politicians cheered on violence and looting?

4. Back to the point, what is the appropriate response, in your mind, to what Trump did?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 11:10:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 10:56:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 10:32:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:30:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2021, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.
have they nothing better to do he's out in 7 days .

So what do you think the appropriate response is to what Trump did?
the same congress who stood by last year and cheered on violence and looting, f them they couldn't care less about small businesses being burned down or mobs showing up at politicians houses in the middle of the night or harassing people at restaurants but when they show up at their place of work it's a different story .

Are you being serious?

1. Rioters from the summer were/are investigated and charged. Some local, some state, some federally as with the Minneapolis police station arsonists. Those issues had nothing to do with the Congress. Just like the Capitol rioters are being investigated by the FBI.

2. What does someone getting yelled at at a restaurant have to do with anything? Any more than Mitt Romney or Lindsay Graham getting yelled at in airports last week?

3. Which politicians cheered on violence and looting?

4. Back to the point, what is the appropriate response, in your mind, to what Trump did?
we don't agree on what he did so it's pointless talking about a sanction
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:15:32 PM
Gmac being true to the last I see ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2021, 12:09:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.

One term.

Lost popular vote twice.

Lost the WH, the House and the Senate in the space of two years.

Ripped tiny children out of their parents arms and shipped them across the country.

Praised the mob who invaded the Capitol building, hunting for the VP and the Speaker of the House, resulting in the death of five people.

Impeached twice.

Worst president ever.

Probably the biggest blow to him - lost the 2022 PGA Championship
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election)

Cue leopard face eating meme.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 14, 2021, 03:01:31 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election)

Cue leopard face eating meme.

;D ;D

Are we going to see Guiliani take Trump to court now for unpaid bills?

Might risk a back reaction from the MAGA morons.

The God-King can do no wrong!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 14, 2021, 03:02:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2021, 12:09:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.

One term.

Lost popular vote twice.

Lost the WH, the House and the Senate in the space of two years.

Ripped tiny children out of their parents arms and shipped them across the country.

Praised the mob who invaded the Capitol building, hunting for the VP and the Speaker of the House, resulting in the death of five people.

Impeached twice.

Worst president ever.

Probably the biggest blow to him - lost the 2022 PGA Championship

Apparently he was seriously devastated by this.

Poor Don has never had to deal with consequences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on January 14, 2021, 03:09:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2021, 12:09:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2021, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 09:23:30 PM
Trump impeached for a 2nd time. History marker clown.

One term.

Lost popular vote twice.

Lost the WH, the House and the Senate in the space of two years.

Ripped tiny children out of their parents arms and shipped them across the country.

Praised the mob who invaded the Capitol building, hunting for the VP and the Speaker of the House, resulting in the death of five people.

Impeached twice.

Worst president ever.

Probably the biggest blow to him - lost the 2022 PGA Championship

And never forget Four Seasons Total Landscaping!

I know, I know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 14, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
This Lauren Boebert woman is some head the ball

It's like she's a satirical performance art creation

Sadly she's all too real

America's future looks bleak with people like her around

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on January 14, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
its a cult a dangerous cult and their is a lot of them in ireland aswell
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on January 14, 2021, 03:24:52 PM
will trump  not go on some new site like gab or something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 14, 2021, 03:26:28 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 14, 2021, 03:24:52 PM
will trump  not go on some new site like gab or something

Apparently he was trying to, but saner heads in his inner circle prevailed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 14, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 14, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
This Lauren Boebert woman is some head the ball

It's like she's a satirical performance art creation

Sadly she's all too real

America's future looks bleak with people like her around

The other QAnon headtheball from GA is trying to impeach Biden next week.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/534178-marjorie-taylor-greene-says-she-will-introduce-impeachment-articles-against (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/534178-marjorie-taylor-greene-says-she-will-introduce-impeachment-articles-against)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 04:30:34 PM
Would she not consider giving the guy some time to do something impeachable first?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 14, 2021, 04:53:40 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 04:30:34 PM
Would she not consider giving the guy some time to do something impeachable first?

She's QAnon.

He's already been tried and convicted in their minds of being part of the deep state child molestation and consumption ring, or whatever the f**k it is they believe in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 04:57:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 14, 2021, 03:01:31 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election)

Cue leopard face eating meme.

;D ;D

Are we going to see Guiliani take Trump to court now for unpaid bills?



Please please please please please...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on January 14, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 14, 2021, 03:01:31 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election)

Cue leopard face eating meme.

;D ;D

Are we going to see Guiliani take Trump to court now for unpaid bills?

Might risk a back reaction from the MAGA morons.

The God-King can do no wrong!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhvD4GUWAAAtpSG.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 14, 2021, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 04:57:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 14, 2021, 03:01:31 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-plans-on-stiffing-giuliani-on-legal-fees-after-failing-to-steal-election)

Cue leopard face eating meme.

;D ;D

Are we going to see Guiliani take Trump to court now for unpaid bills?



Please please please please please...
I guess that put's Rudy's immaculate pardon into the burner. However the torture doesn't stop for Rudy and Sid as well. They'll have to defend themselves against a disbarment complaint, for 'such flagrant levels of unethical conduct, hithertoo unseen' ---  even by NY lawyer standards. Criminal charges are also on Rudy's plate, for crossing the legal red lines.
Repeated false statements about election fraud.
Encouragement of violence  "let's have trial by combat"
The attempted call to Senator Tuberville  - how to "slow down" the electoral college vote.

are all sufficient to predicate a criminal investigation.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/13/donald-trump-lawyers-fallout-election-fraud-claims
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
On the channel four news tonight they are saying California has a rate of someone dying of Covid every 6 minutes!!

Staggering numbers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 11:35:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
On the channel four news tonight they are saying California has a rate of someone dying of Covid every 6 minutes!!

Staggering numbers
and has been locked down partially or fully for 10 months
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2021, 12:16:27 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 11:35:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
On the channel four news tonight they are saying California has a rate of someone dying of Covid every 6 minutes!!

Staggering numbers
and has been locked down partially or fully for 10 months

Obviously no one is listening, a virus can't spread if you stay in. How else can a virus spread?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 16, 2021, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2021, 12:16:27 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 11:35:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
On the channel four news tonight they are saying California has a rate of someone dying of Covid every 6 minutes!!

Staggering numbers
and has been locked down partially or fully for 10 months

Obviously no one is listening, a virus can't spread if you stay in. How else can a virus spread?
you don't run everyone inside when it's 65 degrees everyday of the week , number 1 closing restaurants at 50% capacity and stopping outdoor dining has been a disaster.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2021, 12:26:46 AM
So it spread because nobody give a shite? Or the 'lockdown' wasn't actually a lockdown, a bit like the Norhh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 16, 2021, 01:49:43 AM
The f**king pillow guy!

Thank god this shit ends in a few days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2021, 02:12:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2021, 12:26:46 AM
So it spread because nobody give a shite? Or the 'lockdown' wasn't actually a lockdown, a bit like the Norhh?

California may be a solid blue state, but unfortunately it's infested with just enough conservatives to spread their virus. hance most of the damage has been done in southern California where most of the conservatives live.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 16, 2021, 02:54:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2021, 02:12:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2021, 12:26:46 AM
So it spread because nobody give a shite? Or the 'lockdown' wasn't actually a lockdown, a bit like the Norhh?

California may be a solid blue state, but unfortunately it's infested with just enough conservatives to spread their virus. hance most of the damage has been done in southern California where most of the conservatives live.
lots of Latinos must be conservative so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2021, 04:07:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 14, 2021, 04:53:40 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 14, 2021, 04:30:34 PM
Would she not consider giving the guy some time to do something impeachable first?

She's QAnon.

He's already been tried and convicted in their minds of being part of the deep state child molestation and consumption ring, or whatever the f**k it is they believe in.

I'm surprised they even let her into the building. She's a security risk. A gun nut that has threatened other members of congress and refuses to go through the metal detector.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 16, 2021, 07:33:47 PM
Here's an interesting take on where we are in the United States from a Belfast Boy
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/534347-belfasts-troubles-echo-in-todays-washington
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 16, 2021, 09:07:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2021, 02:12:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2021, 12:26:46 AM
So it spread because nobody give a shite? Or the 'lockdown' wasn't actually a lockdown, a bit like the Norhh?

California may be a solid blue state, but unfortunately it's infested with just enough conservatives to spread their virus. hance most of the damage has been done in southern California where most of the conservatives live.
Eamon that has to be a seriously unfair statement. Like everywhere else people do things to suit themselves, and justify breaking the rules. Republican democrat, FF, FG, SF, Unionist, nationalist black white etc etc, it doesn't matter, people are people  and justify it to themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on January 16, 2021, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2021, 01:49:43 AM
The f**king pillow guy!

Thank god this shit ends in a few days.

This does not end trump cultists wont go quietly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 17, 2021, 07:30:32 AM
https://morgancountyusa.org/?p=4965

"The Democratic Party has a particular anger towards the real left, because the real left calls them out for who they are."

"We are just not examining what is happening within the country and why this rage is there. And it is a legitimate rage. It may be expressed in vulgar and horrible ways, but the rage is legitimate."  

"And if we don't go back and rebuild those social bonds – and that is not in the vocabulary of the ruling elite, nor is it in the vocabulary of the press, which has essentially stopped doing it's job — we are finished."

"The white working class was legitimately betrayed. There is real anger toward the media outlets that rendered them invisible and never told their story and when they speak about them, they demean them and insult them."

"We have a political establishment that essentially wrote them off and assign them to immense misery. The chattering class of the self-identified liberal elites on each coast who largely profited from neoliberalism has no real understanding of the suffering that has taken place in these post-industrial towns. And that suffering is real and awful. You go to town after town with boarded up churches, closed supermarkets, people have retreated into the opioid epidemic, these self-destructive pathologies which you always see with societal breakdown."

"Biden has always served corporate interests, going back to when he was Senator Credit Card in Delaware." 

"In Biden's cabinet, you will have a certain number of women, a certain number of – that's just colonialism. I worked in the Congo. Finally when the Belgians and the French couldn't put white faces up there, they put up Mobutu, and they killed Patrice Lumumba, who actually stood for social justice." 

"It's just another species of corporate colonialism, which Biden is going to do. So there will be more women and more people of color, but they will serve the machine. And if they don't serve the machine, they are out."

"As Richard Rorty says correctly – there is a wholesale revulsion toward these self-identified liberals, but more dangerously to the liberal democratic values that they supposedly promote. And that is what feeds these proto-fascist movements, which we saw last week." 

"We should have walked out on the Democratic Party in 1994 after NAFTA and stood by the working class. And they know it. Much of my family comes out of that lower working class in Maine. And I have seen their communities and lives – where my grandparents house was in Maine, the bank is boarded up, there was a Methodist church that caught on fire and burned, the town doesn't have enough money to raze it, so it's charred embers. There are methamphetamine labs all over the place. That is what the Democratic Party and the self-identified liberal class has done. And that is why they hate (liberals)." 

"I totally get that hatred. They continue to speak out of both sides of their mouth. They continue to speak that traditional feel your pain language of liberalism while putting the knife in the back of these people. So the hatred for the Democratic Party is far fiercer because there was a time when organized labor mattered. It doesn't matter anymore."

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on January 17, 2021, 11:22:22 AM
That's a fantastic article seafoid and illustrates the plight of Mid West suburban America. Those people haven't a pot to piss in and they still get lectured by celebrities on TV about how privileged they are.

Enough of those people have come back to the Democratic party because of how terrible a President Trump was, and that nothing really changed for them since 2016.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2021, 07:30:32 AM

"The white working class was legitimately betrayed.
But how did they suffer due to their whiteness?

The answer is: they didn't

And if so, why does the author mention whiteness?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 12:46:07 PM
There are two major fault lines in US politics - i) race and ii) class

There is a small section of the "left" - the non-constructive, preening, dirtbag "left" - epitomised by people like Jimmy Dore, Glenn Greenwald, Katie Halper and Krystal Ball, who reject race as an issue, in fact the central "issue" that defines them is thinly veiled sympathising with Russia - an arch crony capitalist dictatorship - it's a bizarre issue to congregate around, and you'd have to question why this, of all "issues", is something that unites them

And I would argue that means they are not on the left at all - and are in fact willing agents of the far right - they are disruptors and chaos agents

Bernie Sanders staffer Simone Norman memorably satirised the dirtbag left a couple of years ago: https://twitter.com/whysimonewhy/status/1143280089133699072

Anybody with two brain cells to rub together can see that the US needs European style socialism/social democracy, call it whatever you want to call it - it needs Scandinavia for America

The people who need this the most are the poor and working class

But the dirtbag left - which is an overwhelmingly white, upper class thing, is much more interested in attacking Black Lives Matter and associated politics

In a non-quoted passage from the article above, it is even denied that race is a political issue - like, what the absolute f**k?

The article above talks about "rebuilding those social bonds"

But if you're black and poor or working class, there have never been real social bonds between you and whites and the institutions which represent white supremacist America

The dirtbag left rejects this premise and thus rejects history - it is essentially another branch of white supremacist, right-wing wing racist ideology

Some of the people who would most benefit from Scandinavian style politics in the US are white and they are working class and they are poor

And many of these same people are the same people who are most hostile to such politics, they call it "communism"

Why? Propaganda - right-wing talk radio, Murdoch media, the mountain of industrial strength right-wing conspiracy bullshit

Such propaganda is something the dirtbag left is silent about - in fact it is an enabler of it and a defender of it - Glenn Greenwald - who is referenced in a non-quoted passage of the above article, is a regular on Fox News who parrots white supremacist Tucker Carlson

The dirtbag left originally championed AOC, but now they have abandoned AOC, because AOC, along with people like Katie Porter, is intent on working constructively to progressively move the Overton window left - she is playing a long, strategic game, like Stacey Abrams did in Georgia

A lot of them abandoned Bernie Sanders because he was too constructive

Building a broad based coalition over many years is the only way you can win in US politics

But the dirtbag left have no truck at all with this







Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 17, 2021, 03:31:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2021, 07:30:32 AM

"The white working class was legitimately betrayed.
But how did they suffer due to their whiteness?

The answer is: they didn't

And if so, why does the author mention whiteness?
They were shafted because of their class.
Black working class  people got the same treatment.

Now it is the turn of the middle classes to get shafted.
It will be interesting to see the reaction when the pensions disappear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 03:50:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2021, 03:31:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2021, 07:30:32 AM

"The white working class was legitimately betrayed.
But how did they suffer due to their whiteness?

The answer is: they didn't

And if so, why does the author mention whiteness?
They were shafted because of their class.
Black working class  people got the same treatment.

Now it is the turn of the middle classes to get shafted.
It will be interesting to see the reaction when the pensions disappear.
So why does the speaker reference whiteness, when nobody suffers from disadvantage or unfair treatment in America because of their whiteness

White people face disadvantage because of their class - not their colour

People of colour face disadvantage because of both their class and their colour

The real left sees this, the dirtbag left does not - what the dirtbag left essentially holds is that colour should not be mentioned as a point of disadvantage - it is trapped in a bubble of right-wing political correctness where mass racism is not called out

Much of the white working class votes for politics that upholds both the interests of the very richest and the white supremacists

This is because of propaganda - but the dirtbag left, like Greenwald, are mates with Tucker Carlson

This is Le Penism, the spelling of which is appropriate enough




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 17, 2021, 04:04:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2021, 03:31:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2021, 07:30:32 AM

"The white working class was legitimately betrayed.
But how did they suffer due to their whiteness?

The answer is: they didn't

And if so, why does the author mention whiteness?
They were shafted because of their class.
Black working class  people got the same treatment.

Now it is the turn of the middle classes to get shafted.
It will be interesting to see the reaction when the pensions disappear.
That article was specifically about he loss in income of the white working class.  The poor white myth, research shows that they're no worse off today than then when the Dems left them in the lurch. They moved on got different jobs but were displaced due to the rise in  status of people who did not look like them. The little advantage they had, the feeling of (white)  superiority  was displaced and resentment set in. That's where Trump comes in,  blame someone else, the Chinese the Mexicans the Moslem, the elite, and fake news that won't tell you that,  but don't take self responsibility. That's why they tolerate Trump's racism and xenophobia because they have the resentment somewhere of their sense of (false superiority) being displaced. Same in NI.

Regardless,  many in that  mob who forcibly occupied Congress were a far cry away from the 'not a pot to piss in' element.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 17, 2021, 04:32:08 PM
Is it tomorrow the US rejoins the (relatively) sane World?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 17, 2021, 05:33:16 PM
White working class

https://youtu.be/BHnJp0oyOxs

Black working class

https://youtu.be/h8PNFiOhKLg

Falling life expectancy

https://www.ft.com/content/6f2ed9b6-582e-11ea-a528-dd0f971febbc

trio of killers stalking those without university degrees: suicide, drug overdoses from a flood of opioids and diseases arising from alcoholism. Or, as Case would later dub these: "deaths of despair".


Similar processes are visible in the UK and drove the leave vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 05:50:13 PM
Why does suicide happen? Lots of different reasons, but two main ones are poverty and addiction

Both can be caused by unemployment, but both are also caused by lack of good employment, employment that enables you to have some sort of a meaningful life with some security

All the things that enable real freedom - decent labour rights, decent public healthcare, decent public transport, decent public housing, good public education, good affordable third level education, a decent social safety net, are branded as "communism" in America by pretty much the entirety of the right wing

American employment seems all about deliberate insecurity, about working people to the bone for a pittance, about treating workers like pieces of meat, and if you fall through the cracks, as many do, God f**king help you

But whites do not suffer because they are white, whereas people of colour do suffer because they are people of colour, the game is rigged against them in an outsize way

Addiction has been enabled through lack of regulation - because doctors had financial incentives to push opioids, because any other quack can push anything they like

That is down to lack of regulation

If you say that in America, you're branded a communist by the right wing

Right wing propaganda wins again



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 18, 2021, 09:46:01 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 16, 2021, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2021, 12:16:27 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 11:35:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
On the channel four news tonight they are saying California has a rate of someone dying of Covid every 6 minutes!!

Staggering numbers
and has been locked down partially or fully for 10 months

Obviously no one is listening, a virus can't spread if you stay in. How else can a virus spread?
you don't run everyone inside when it's 65 degrees everyday of the week , number 1 closing restaurants at 50% capacity and stopping outdoor dining has been a disaster.

Has this caused more covid deaths?

Strange to say the least.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 19, 2021, 05:10:13 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 16, 2021, 09:07:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 16, 2021, 02:12:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2021, 12:26:46 AM
So it spread because nobody give a shite? Or the 'lockdown' wasn't actually a lockdown, a bit like the Norhh?

California may be a solid blue state, but unfortunately it's infested with just enough conservatives to spread their virus. hance most of the damage has been done in southern California where most of the conservatives live.
Eamon that has to be a seriously unfair statement. Like everywhere else people do things to suit themselves, and justify breaking the rules. Republican democrat, FF, FG, SF, Unionist, nationalist black white etc etc, it doesn't matter, people are people  and justify it to themselves.

I stand by my statement. It's common knowledge that conservatives are more likely to be Covid-deniers, less likely to wear a mask, less likely to social distance. There is plenty of research that backs this up.

QuotePartisan differences in physical distancing are linked to health outcomes during the COVID-19 pandemic
(https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-00977-7)

Numerous polls suggest that COVID-19 is a profoundly partisan issue in the United States. Using the geotracking data of 15 million smartphones per day, we found that US counties that voted for Donald Trump (Republican) over Hillary Clinton (Democrat) in the 2016 presidential election exhibited 14% less physical distancing between March and May 2020. Partisanship was more strongly associated with physical distancing than numerous other factors, including counties' COVID-19 cases, population density, median income, and racial and age demographics. Contrary to our predictions, the observed partisan gap strengthened over time and remained when stay-at-home orders were active. Additionally, county-level consumption of conservative media (Fox News) was related to reduced physical distancing. Finally, the observed partisan differences in distancing were associated with subsequently higher COVID-19 infection and fatality growth rates in pro-Trump counties. Taken together, these data suggest that US citizens' responses to COVID-19 are subject to a deep—and consequential—partisan divide.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 19, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess

What did he really say?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess

What did he really say?
tomorrow could be a shit show will joe be able to repeat the lines when getting sworn in , saw a video of him over the weekend and he has the frightened look on his face not a good sign .
The good news for all the progressives is he is ticking all the boxes with a very diversified group coming into government especially his assistant secretary of health .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2021, 06:17:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess

What did he really say?
tomorrow could be a shit show will joe be able to repeat the lines when getting sworn in , saw a video of him over the weekend and he has the frightened look on his face not a good sign .
The good news for all the progressives is he is ticking all the boxes with a very diversified group coming into government especially his assistant secretary of health .

Anyone want to make a wager as to whether Joe completes his 4 year term?

The Democrats played this like pros......Joe was the most electable of the main stream Democrats. Now he's in place let's unleash the  agendas of the more extreme unelectable candidates

If reports are correct-on day 1:

amnesty for undocumented  (which I'm for BTW)

End of KeystonePipeline

Recommit to Paris Climate agreement and Iran Nuke Deal

I guess with a complicit media he was able to hide out in his basement for 12 months and never get seriously questioned about what his plans were

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 19, 2021, 06:18:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess

What did he really say?
tomorrow could be a shit show will joe be able to repeat the lines when getting sworn in , saw a video of him over the weekend and he has the frightened look on his face not a good sign .
The good news for all the progressives is he is ticking all the boxes with a very diversified group coming into government especially his assistant secretary of health .

And when it turns out Joe does just fine with the oath and delivers a very mature and realistic inauguration address?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 19, 2021, 06:24:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 19, 2021, 06:17:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess

What did he really say?
tomorrow could be a shit show will joe be able to repeat the lines when getting sworn in , saw a video of him over the weekend and he has the frightened look on his face not a good sign .
The good news for all the progressives is he is ticking all the boxes with a very diversified group coming into government especially his assistant secretary of health .

Anyone want to make a wager as to whether Joe completes his 4 year term?

The Democrats played this like pros......Joe was the most electable of the main stream Democrats. Now he's in place let's unleash the  agendas of the more extreme unelectable candidates

If reports are correct-on day 1:

amnesty for undocumented  (which I'm for BTW)

End of KeystonePipeline

Recommit to Paris Climate agreement and Iran Nuke Deal

I guess with a complicit media he was able to hide out in his basement for 12 months and never get seriously questioned about what his plans were


Extreme?

That's all bog-standard centrist Democratic stuff.

As was in the platform (they had one, not like the GOP, whose platform was "whatever the Dear Leader's having").

Trump made it all about himself, the GOP made it all about Trump, and all Biden had to do was sit back and watch and sound normal. The media reported on COVID and George Floyd, both issues which were dominated utterly by Trump. Wasn't much Biden could do either way on those.

Had Trump had played it right, both issues could have allowed him to stride the field like a victorious general while Biden had to sit there idle. It could have been his finest hour. Instead, he squandered a gift and showed the country why he could not be trusted to lead it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 19, 2021, 06:25:31 PM
What time are the pardons coming out at? :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:29:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 06:18:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess

What did he really say?
tomorrow could be a shit show will joe be able to repeat the lines when getting sworn in , saw a video of him over the weekend and he has the frightened look on his face not a good sign .
The good news for all the progressives is he is ticking all the boxes with a very diversified group coming into government especially his assistant secretary of health .

And when it turns out Joe does just fine with the oath and delivers a very mature and realistic inauguration address?
hopefully he does but the reality is he is not the policy driver of this government.
CNN msnbc are the ones who made it about trump everyday for the last 4 years , what is the strategy now ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 19, 2021, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:29:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 06:18:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess

What did he really say?
tomorrow could be a shit show will joe be able to repeat the lines when getting sworn in , saw a video of him over the weekend and he has the frightened look on his face not a good sign .
The good news for all the progressives is he is ticking all the boxes with a very diversified group coming into government especially his assistant secretary of health .

And when it turns out Joe does just fine with the oath and delivers a very mature and realistic inauguration address?
hopefully he does but the reality is he is not the policy driver of this government.
CNN msnbc are the ones who made it about trump everyday for the last 4 years , what is the strategy now ?

As always GMAC you pull a Murdoch news talking point out of your fine open minded brain and project it on the "Fake News".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on January 19, 2021, 07:10:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 19, 2021, 06:17:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess

What did he really say?
tomorrow could be a shit show will joe be able to repeat the lines when getting sworn in , saw a video of him over the weekend and he has the frightened look on his face not a good sign .
The good news for all the progressives is he is ticking all the boxes with a very diversified group coming into government especially his assistant secretary of health .

Anyone want to make a wager as to whether Joe completes his 4 year term?

The Democrats played this like pros......Joe was the most electable of the main stream Democrats. Now he's in place let's unleash the  agendas of the more extreme unelectable candidates

If reports are correct-on day 1:

amnesty for undocumented  (which I'm for BTW)

End of KeystonePipeline

Recommit to Paris Climate agreement and Iran Nuke Deal

I guess with a complicit media he was able to hide out in his basement for 12 months and never get seriously questioned about what his plans were

Is this actually what's considered radical to Conservatives these days? Anyone on the right who thinks those policies are extreme really needs to look at how far to the right they've drifted for the centre to seem far away...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2021, 07:40:19 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on January 19, 2021, 07:10:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 19, 2021, 06:17:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 19, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
Just 24 hours to go until we can start digging ourselves out of this hate filled sh1t show. Hopefully we can start defusing the hate, the fear, the lies and racism that have been visited on us by Trump, the Republican Party and the Murdochs. It is not going to be easy.
lemonhead on cnn calling 74m people kkk members is not hate speech I guess

What did he really say?
tomorrow could be a shit show will joe be able to repeat the lines when getting sworn in , saw a video of him over the weekend and he has the frightened look on his face not a good sign .
The good news for all the progressives is he is ticking all the boxes with a very diversified group coming into government especially his assistant secretary of health .

Anyone want to make a wager as to whether Joe completes his 4 year term?

The Democrats played this like pros......Joe was the most electable of the main stream Democrats. Now he's in place let's unleash the  agendas of the more extreme unelectable candidates

If reports are correct-on day 1:

amnesty for undocumented  (which I'm for BTW)

End of KeystonePipeline

Recommit to Paris Climate agreement and Iran Nuke Deal

I guess with a complicit media he was able to hide out in his basement for 12 months and never get seriously questioned about what his plans were

Is this actually what's considered radical to Conservatives these days? Anyone on the right who thinks those policies are extreme really needs to look at how far to the right they've drifted for the centre to seem far away...

Elections are decided by swing voters

After living here for close to three decades I'll go out on a limb and say the majority of swing voters would NOT  be in favor of these policy positions
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: OgraAnDun on January 19, 2021, 08:22:01 PM
I see they interviewed you for Channel 4 news tonight whitey...

https://youtu.be/GiEuVW8dEiM
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2021, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on January 19, 2021, 08:22:01 PM
I see they interviewed you for Channel 4 news tonight whitey...

https://youtu.be/GiEuVW8dEiM


And therein lies the problem with American politics

Agree with us on everything or we'll paint you as the most extreme manisfeatation of the opposition party
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 19, 2021, 09:39:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 06:25:31 PM
What time are the pardons coming out at? :)
When the bank transfers have been completed.

Like the Medici Pope  Leo X,  sins for cash.
I see some (according to rumour) have balked at the going prices and haven't made the list.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on January 19, 2021, 10:16:22 PM
Biden is a neoliberal . He won't change anything.
Sure he's better than Trump but the US needs more than plasters.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 19, 2021, 10:38:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2021, 10:16:22 PM
Biden is a neoliberal . He won't change anything.
Sure he's better than Trump but the US needs more than plasters.

The biggest problem is the total mess Trump has left behind and will take American the best part of a decade to recover.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: moysider on January 20, 2021, 12:05:27 AM

Apparently Trump has pardoned Pat McEnaney before Biden takes office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 20, 2021, 04:04:38 AM
Pardoning the guy who defrauded his own supporters. A perfect ending to the Trump Presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 08:52:49 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 20, 2021, 04:04:38 AM
Pardoning the guy who defrauded his own supporters. A perfect ending to the Trump Presidency.
I've said this on here before but what allegedly civilised democracy allows this pardoning fiasco irrespective if its Trump, Obama or whoever.

The message they send out is that you can be as big a charlatan as you like and the Presidente can then pardon you certainly will allow corruption to carry on unabated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 09:03:32 AM
All Republicans can take heart that although their great leader Trump has departed, Q remains with Q level clearance and will carry on fighting the good fight against all the Satan-worshipping paedophiles in government.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 09:59:31 AM
Hard to say what was Trump's most humiliating event, such is the sheer volume of contenders in the 4 year cluster. I'd say top of the pile  has to be getting dumped by Deutche Bank, that's akin to the country's most notorious crack cocaine drug dealer refusing to ply his trade with you because you'd lower his moral tone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2021, 12:38:44 PM
This morning has to be up there.

He's so f**king petty and narcissistic that he can't even depart with a modicum of grace and dignity.  Trump got the traditional handover from Obama after Trump himself had launched his political career with racist and baseless conspiracy theory personal attacks on Obama. But Trump is so personally pathetic and weak that he can't man up and do the same.

And there's barely a Republican in sight as Trump leaves the White House. Its not even clear, at this point, that Pence is going to show up.

Douglas Brinkley just said on CNN that Trump is "the bottom of the barrel" when it comes to presidents. About sums up how he is going to be viewed historically. Down there with Buchanan and Pierce.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 20, 2021, 02:13:09 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 09:59:31 AM
Hard to say what was Trump's most humiliating event, such is the sheer volume of contenders in the 4 year cluster. I'd say top of the pile  has to be getting dumped by Deutche Bank, that's akin to the country's most notorious crack cocaine drug dealer refusing to ply his trade with you becasue you'd lower his moral tone.

I would say the Four Seasons landscaping debacle wins the prize, followed by "Sharpiegate", followed by the time he had cello taped the back of his tie
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on January 20, 2021, 04:24:16 PM
Just heard how petty Trump is not sending Air Force one oo collect Biden for the inauguration.  Is this Fake News?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 04:35:58 PM
This inaugeration of Biden is auspicious, it has to be Mayo to bring home Sam during Biden's term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on January 20, 2021, 04:36:50 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 20, 2021, 04:24:16 PM
Just heard how petty Trump is not sending Air Force one oo collect Biden for the inauguration.  Is this Fake News?

Absolutely not fake news, it was reported by the NY Times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 20, 2021, 04:49:54 PM
And there marks the official end of Trump as president. Thank fcuk.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2021, 04:51:52 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 20, 2021, 04:49:54 PM
And there marks the official end of Trump as president. Thank fcuk.

I remember with Obama, it was elation.

Now... just relief.

But, that will do nicely! :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 05:02:12 PM
They should have got Arlo Guthrie or/and Bruce for This Land is Your Land.


That's a wrap now, should Joe kick the bucket, Kamala takes over.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Now that Trump is officially gone. Let's hope the US can move on from this time of carnage to one where we can rebuild our economy and our faith in sane Government.  How long will it take before the Trump rump of the Republican Party mobilize full out demonization of President Biden and his efforts to unite the country. My guess is that the honeymoon will be short.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 20, 2021, 05:25:29 PM
Thank God and the 80m voters that hape o' sh1te is gone from the White House.
Did Gmac's and whitey's mates get up to any insurrections or putschs today?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 05:30:42 PM
Poet Amanda Gorman,  yet another good irish family name.

Imagine where the American Irish would be now in the US, had the average age of life in the 19C  for the irish immigrant after arrival, been longer than 6 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 20, 2021, 06:26:32 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 20, 2021, 04:24:16 PM
Just heard how petty Trump is not sending Air Force one oo collect Biden for the inauguration.  Is this Fake News?

Biden wanted to take Amtrak but couldn't because of security concerns. The RWNJs couldn't be trusted to leave the railway alone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on January 20, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 05:30:42 PM
Poet Amanda Gorman,  yet another good irish family name.

Imagine where the American Irish would be now in the US, had the average age of life in the 19C  for the irish immigrant after arrival, been longer than 6 years.

She probably has an Irish name as her ancestors were given the owner's name.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 20, 2021, 06:36:56 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Now that Trump is officially gone. Let's hope the US can move on from this time of carnage to one where we can rebuild our economy and our faith in sane Government.  How long will it take before the Trump rump of the Republican Party mobilize full out demonization of President Biden and his efforts to unite the country. My guess is that the honeymoon will be short.

I agree. And the RWNJs just got their asses handed to them. They're still retreating deep into their echo chambers and becoming increasingly deranged and detached from reality. While today is a good day and a time to celebrate, it's not a time to let our guard down. The hateful ideology that allowed Trump to seize power has not gone away, you know. The RWNJs will regroup, and their next leader will not be as stupid or incompetent as Trump. I think they just got a lot more dangerous.

In other news, this is the day when Republicans traditionally flip the switch and revert to being deficit hawks. Stand by for a load of hand-wringing about the size of the debt and the deficit from the people who have worked hardest to increase it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2021, 06:56:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 20, 2021, 06:36:56 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Now that Trump is officially gone. Let's hope the US can move on from this time of carnage to one where we can rebuild our economy and our faith in sane Government.  How long will it take before the Trump rump of the Republican Party mobilize full out demonization of President Biden and his efforts to unite the country. My guess is that the honeymoon will be short.

I agree. And the RWNJs just got their asses handed to them. They're still retreating deep into their echo chambers and becoming increasingly deranged and detached from reality. While today is a good day and a time to celebrate, it's not a time to let our guard down. The hateful ideology that allowed Trump to seize power has not gone away, you know. The RWNJs will regroup, and their next leader will not be as stupid or incompetent as Trump. I think they just got a lot more dangerous.

In other news, this is the day when Republicans traditionally flip the switch and revert to being deficit hawks. Stand by for a load of hand-wringing about the size of the debt and the deficit from the people who have worked hardest to increase it.

Fiscal cliff 2.0 time!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 20, 2021, 07:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2021, 05:25:29 PM
Thank God and the 80m voters that hape o' sh1te is gone from the White House.
Did Gmac's and whitey's mates get up to any insurrections or putschs today?

I think I may be a victim of mistaken identity

I don't think I ever ONCE questioned the legitimacy of President Biden's victory.

Do I think there was some shenanigans around the margins?  Absolutely.

But was it enough to reverse the outcome? Not a hope
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 20, 2021, 07:14:56 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Now that Trump is officially gone. Let's hope the US can move on from this time of carnage to one where we can rebuild our economy and our faith in sane Government.  How long will it take before the Trump rump of the Republican Party mobilize full out demonization of President Biden and his efforts to unite the country. My guess is that the honeymoon will be short.

LOL

I was talking to someone today who is going to get their gun permit on Friday before Biden "bans guns"

The economy is going to do great for the next 2-3 years but afterwards who knows. Since the pandemic began, Americans have added close to $1.5 T to their savings accounts. Add in $2T in stimulus and a very robust stock and real estate market.....I think Joe is teed up to do very well
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on January 20, 2021, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2021, 07:14:56 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Now that Trump is officially gone. Let's hope the US can move on from this time of carnage to one where we can rebuild our economy and our faith in sane Government.  How long will it take before the Trump rump of the Republican Party mobilize full out demonization of President Biden and his efforts to unite the country. My guess is that the honeymoon will be short.

LOL

I was talking to someone today who is going to get their gun permit on Friday before Biden "bans guns"

The economy is going to do great for the next 2-3 years but afterwards who knows. Since the pandemic began, Americans have added close to $1.5 T to their savings accounts. Add in $2T in stimulus and a very robust stock and real estate market.....I think Joe is teed up to do very well
Typically the gains and falls in the US economy during the first 18m of a Presidency are ascribed to the performance of the previous POTUS.
I think Trump told so many lies that he could never be credited for any actual economic good he achieved.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 20, 2021, 07:55:02 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 20, 2021, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2021, 07:14:56 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Now that Trump is officially gone. Let's hope the US can move on from this time of carnage to one where we can rebuild our economy and our faith in sane Government.  How long will it take before the Trump rump of the Republican Party mobilize full out demonization of President Biden and his efforts to unite the country. My guess is that the honeymoon will be short.

LOL

I was talking to someone today who is going to get their gun permit on Friday before Biden "bans guns"

The economy is going to do great for the next 2-3 years but afterwards who knows. Since the pandemic began, Americans have added close to $1.5 T to their savings accounts. Add in $2T in stimulus and a very robust stock and real estate market.....I think Joe is teed up to do very well
Typically the gains and falls in the US economy during the first 18m of a Presidency are ascribed to the performance of the previous POTUS.
I think Trump told so many lies that he could never be credited for any actual economic good he achieved.
we already know how this goes if it's good it's Biden if it's bad it's trump .
For something like the unemployment rate Did you think that trump was calculating it himself and just said whatever suited him ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thebigfella on January 20, 2021, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2021, 07:55:02 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 20, 2021, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2021, 07:14:56 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Now that Trump is officially gone. Let's hope the US can move on from this time of carnage to one where we can rebuild our economy and our faith in sane Government.  How long will it take before the Trump rump of the Republican Party mobilize full out demonization of President Biden and his efforts to unite the country. My guess is that the honeymoon will be short.

LOL

I was talking to someone today who is going to get their gun permit on Friday before Biden "bans guns"

The economy is going to do great for the next 2-3 years but afterwards who knows. Since the pandemic began, Americans have added close to $1.5 T to their savings accounts. Add in $2T in stimulus and a very robust stock and real estate market.....I think Joe is teed up to do very well
Typically the gains and falls in the US economy during the first 18m of a Presidency are ascribed to the performance of the previous POTUS.
I think Trump told so many lies that he could never be credited for any actual economic good he achieved.
we already know how this goes if it's good it's Biden if it's bad it's trump .
For something like the unemployment rate Did you think that trump was calculating it himself and just said whatever suited him ?

Yes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mouview on January 20, 2021, 08:38:35 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Now that Trump is officially gone. Let's hope the US can move on from this time of carnage to one where we can rebuild our economy and our faith in sane Government.  How long will it take before the Trump rump of the Republican Party mobilize full out demonization of President Biden and his efforts to unite the country. My guess is that the honeymoon will be short.

The old VP's departure on the Congress steps, escorted by the new VP was a telling moment. That should have been the outgoing POTUS' scene instead. Never has Trump looked more like an ill-mannered lout than in that moment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2021, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 20, 2021, 07:55:02 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 20, 2021, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2021, 07:14:56 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Now that Trump is officially gone. Let's hope the US can move on from this time of carnage to one where we can rebuild our economy and our faith in sane Government.  How long will it take before the Trump rump of the Republican Party mobilize full out demonization of President Biden and his efforts to unite the country. My guess is that the honeymoon will be short.

LOL

I was talking to someone today who is going to get their gun permit on Friday before Biden "bans guns"

The economy is going to do great for the next 2-3 years but afterwards who knows. Since the pandemic began, Americans have added close to $1.5 T to their savings accounts. Add in $2T in stimulus and a very robust stock and real estate market.....I think Joe is teed up to do very well
Typically the gains and falls in the US economy during the first 18m of a Presidency are ascribed to the performance of the previous POTUS.
I think Trump told so many lies that he could never be credited for any actual economic good he achieved.
we already know how this goes if it's good it's Biden if it's bad it's trump .
For something like the unemployment rate Did you think that trump was calculating it himself and just said whatever suited him ?

No, but in 2012 he and other Republicans were accusing Obama and his administration of making up unemployment numbers in the run up to the election.

Also, he and the right in general NEVER acknowledged that the "record-low" rates of unemployment, including among black males, prior to COVID, were the result of the continuation of a long trend beginning with the recovery that began in 2009. They boasted away, yet NEVER could point to any inflection point in the trend which would delineate the Obama trend from any change down to Trump policies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 20, 2021, 09:29:02 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140638393_10225067907190008_8993260384878294987_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=cEzCX64T23sAX8REHPG&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=89d63fbcad7c23367d6fb06ffd755ac7&oe=602C8D83)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 01:01:29 AM
On Hannity tonight:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140218959_218165296642211_5574743089768561503_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=av_3BAKRuHoAX-hKw7b&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=76df740cf25ccbc4fd4a60a1b5abeb3b&oe=602D1A13)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 21, 2021, 01:10:03 AM
What a breath of fresh air that new press secretary is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 21, 2021, 02:31:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 01:01:29 AM
On Hannity tonight:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140218959_218165296642211_5574743089768561503_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=av_3BAKRuHoAX-hKw7b&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=76df740cf25ccbc4fd4a60a1b5abeb3b&oe=602D1A13)

Is that real?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 21, 2021, 02:33:07 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 21, 2021, 01:10:03 AM
What a breath of fresh air that new press secretary is.

Remember Sean Spicer's roll-out four years ago?

The inauguration crowd? ;D

And then Kelly-Anne following up with "alternative facts".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 03:00:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 01:01:29 AM
On Hannity tonight:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140218959_218165296642211_5574743089768561503_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=av_3BAKRuHoAX-hKw7b&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=76df740cf25ccbc4fd4a60a1b5abeb3b&oe=602D1A13)

Are you sure it was really on Hannity tonight?  Look closely at the upper right corner.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 21, 2021, 03:29:22 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 21, 2021, 03:00:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 01:01:29 AM
On Hannity tonight:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140218959_218165296642211_5574743089768561503_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=av_3BAKRuHoAX-hKw7b&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=76df740cf25ccbc4fd4a60a1b5abeb3b&oe=602D1A13)

Are you sure it was really on Hannity tonight?  Look closely at the upper right corner.

Ah! :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 21, 2021, 07:49:13 PM
Biden's first act in the oval office was to remove the bust of Churchill  ;D
Interesting that pm Bullsh*t Johnson wasn't at all perturbed when informed, in stark contrast to the racist tirade he directed against Obama  when he had moved it aside after his entry to the Oval office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 21, 2021, 08:14:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 21, 2021, 07:49:13 PM
Biden's first act in the oval office was to remove the bust of Churchill  ;D
Interesting that pm Bullsh*t Johnson wasn't at all perturbed when informed, in stark contrast to the racist tirade he directed against Obama  when he had moved it aside after his entry to the Oval office.

What did he say about Obama?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 08:20:18 PM
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19029336.boris-johnson-no-comment-biden-removing-churchill-bust-despite-obama-attack/

In 2016, commenting in the Sun newspaper on Obama's decision to remove the bust of the wartime prime minister, Johnson highlighted how it may be viewed as "a snub to Britain".

He added: "Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president's ancestral dislike of the British empire – of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender."


Johnson was later asked if he regretted the phrasing of his comments, to which he replied: "Of course not."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 21, 2021, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
And how easy it is taken in by fake news and pass it on, especially when it suits your politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 21, 2021, 08:46:44 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2021, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
And how easy it is taken in by fake news and pass it on, especially when it suits your politics.
eamon peddling a lot  of misinformation lately .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 21, 2021, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 08:20:18 PM
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19029336.boris-johnson-no-comment-biden-removing-churchill-bust-despite-obama-attack/

In 2016, commenting in the Sun newspaper on Obama's decision to remove the bust of the wartime prime minister, Johnson highlighted how it may be viewed as "a snub to Britain".

He added: "Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president's ancestral dislike of the British empire – of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender."


Johnson was later asked if he regretted the phrasing of his comments, to which he replied: "Of course not."

LOL

And that is a "racist diatribe"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 21, 2021, 09:24:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 21, 2021, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 08:20:18 PM
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19029336.boris-johnson-no-comment-biden-removing-churchill-bust-despite-obama-attack/

In 2016, commenting in the Sun newspaper on Obama's decision to remove the bust of the wartime prime minister, Johnson highlighted how it may be viewed as "a snub to Britain".

He added: "Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president's ancestral dislike of the British empire – of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender."


Johnson was later asked if he regretted the phrasing of his comments, to which he replied: "Of course not."

LOL

And that is a "racist diatribe"?
Of course  it was, in common with Trump's persistent lie about Obama's origins pandering to the Birther conspiracy theories about Obama  held and propounded by racists. How else would Bullsh*t Johnson be aware about Obama's particulars. Unlike Trump, Johnson disguised his ridiculous racist sneer behind a veil of his attempt at light humour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 21, 2021, 09:24:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 21, 2021, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 08:20:18 PM
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19029336.boris-johnson-no-comment-biden-removing-churchill-bust-despite-obama-attack/

In 2016, commenting in the Sun newspaper on Obama's decision to remove the bust of the wartime prime minister, Johnson highlighted how it may be viewed as "a snub to Britain".

He added: "Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president's ancestral dislike of the British empire – of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender."


Johnson was later asked if he regretted the phrasing of his comments, to which he replied: "Of course not."

LOL

And that is a "racist diatribe"?
Of course  it was, in common with Trump's persistent lie about Obama's origins pandering to the Birther conspiracy theories about Obama  held and propounded by racists. How else would Bullsh*t Johnson be aware about Obama's particulars. Unlike Trump, Johnson disguised his ridiculous racist sneer behind a veil of his attempt at light humour.

You're easily offended

I hope you don't get out much....you'd seize up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 21, 2021, 09:53:45 PM
says your (wo)man .... lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 21, 2021, 10:11:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 21, 2021, 09:53:45 PM
says your (wo)man .... lol

Who ever said I was offended about it

You can find something to be stupid and ridiculous without being offended by it you know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 22, 2021, 11:22:14 AM
I read that the lawyer for the woman who is being or likely to be charged with some offenses relating to the attempted coup (stealing  Nancy's laptop?) is blaming Trump for the riot and said in court that she "took the president's bait.
The USA's great republican patriots are quick to run for cover and squeal on their great leader Trump in order to save their own skin.

"Stop The Squeal"

https://tinyurl.com/y455kmnl (https://tinyurl.com/y455kmnl)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 22, 2021, 02:11:37 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2021, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
And how easy it is taken in by fake news and pass it on, especially when it suits your politics.

"Fake news" ffs. Aye you completely daft or what? It's from a satirical TV show.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 22, 2021, 05:17:33 PM
Tulsi gabbard gave her former colleagues a good roasting on joe rogan , basically the tactics were don't pass any bill or any legislation that might give Trump a win or make him look good in the public's eyes whether it's beneficial to the voters or not . Anyone with a brain knew this already of course ,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2021, 05:23:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2021, 05:17:33 PM
Tulsi gabbard gave her former colleagues a good roasting on joe rogan , basically the tactics were don't pass any bill or any legislation that might give Trump a win or make him look good in the public's eyes whether it's beneficial to the voters or not . Anyone with a brain knew this already of course ,

Right out of the Mitch McConnell playbook.

Did she have any examples?

Trump got his tax cut with the first congress. John McCain sank his attempt to get rid of Obamacare.

What legislation was torpedoed by Pelosi that could have benefited the country?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2021, 05:25:38 PM
Go aisy on Gmac these days ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 22, 2021, 05:53:48 PM
https://reason.com/2021/01/22/the-washington-post-memory-holed-kamala-harris-bad-joke-about-inmates-begging-for-food-and-water/?amp&__twitter_impression=true


I see the WaPo are doing a great job cleaning up behind Kamala.....editing their own articles to remove the cringe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 05:57:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2021, 02:11:37 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2021, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
And how easy it is taken in by fake news and pass it on, especially when it suits your politics.

"Fake news" ffs. Aye you completely daft or what? It's from a satirical TV show.
Way to miss the point. If you look at the preceeding posts you'd see what occurred.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on January 22, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
That's so true. Conservatives in the US and the UK have killed political satire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on January 22, 2021, 06:24:00 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 05:57:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2021, 02:11:37 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2021, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
And how easy it is taken in by fake news and pass it on, especially when it suits your politics.

"Fake news" ffs. Aye you completely daft or what? It's from a satirical TV show.
Way to miss the point. If you look at the preceeding posts you'd see what occurred.

I saw exactly what occurred and of course Eamon couldn't wait to post it but you're the one who introduced "fake news" to the discussion, thereby drawing a parallel between the two.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 06:37:45 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2021, 06:24:00 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 05:57:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2021, 02:11:37 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 21, 2021, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
And how easy it is taken in by fake news and pass it on, especially when it suits your politics.

"Fake news" ffs. Aye you completely daft or what? It's from a satirical TV show.
Way to miss the point. If you look at the preceeding posts you'd see what occurred.

I saw exactly what occurred and of course Eamon couldn't wait to post it but you're the one who introduced "fake news" to the discussion, thereby drawing a parallel between the two.
And it had to be pointed out it was from a sketch show, my point is valid - not just in the context of gaaboard world but anywhere online. And it wasn't a dig at Eamon or anyone either as my politics would be closer to his than his American sparring partners.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 22, 2021, 07:14:08 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 22, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
That's so true. Conservatives in the US and the UK have killed political satire
satire would be saying you can't use the words mother father son daughter etc etc in congress but unfortunately it's all to real in the crazy world of Democrat led congress. Serenity now insanity later . Yes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2021, 07:35:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2021, 07:14:08 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 22, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
That's so true. Conservatives in the US and the UK have killed political satire
satire would be saying you can't use the words mother father son daughter etc etc in congress but unfortunately it's all to real in the crazy world of Democrat led congress. Serenity now insanity later . Yes

Did that really happen?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 22, 2021, 07:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2021, 07:35:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2021, 07:14:08 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 22, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
That's so true. Conservatives in the US and the UK have killed political satire
satire would be saying you can't use the words mother father son daughter etc etc in congress but unfortunately it's all to real in the crazy world of Democrat led congress. Serenity now insanity later . Yes

Did that really happen?
now it's parent, child , sibling, parents sibling , parents parent ridiculous stuff j70 but keep on defending it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 22, 2021, 07:47:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2021, 07:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 22, 2021, 07:35:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2021, 07:14:08 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 22, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 21, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
Notice how hard it is to tell actual conservative commentary from satire?
That's so true. Conservatives in the US and the UK have killed political satire
satire would be saying you can't use the words mother father son daughter etc etc in congress but unfortunately it's all to real in the crazy world of Democrat led congress. Serenity now insanity later . Yes

Did that really happen?
now it's parent, child , sibling, parents sibling , parents parent ridiculous stuff j70 but keep on defending it .

I didn't defend anything.

I asked you if the Dems REALLY made a rule "saying you can't use the words mother father son daughter etc etc in congress".

Details please.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 22, 2021, 09:38:59 PM
Stop feeding the troll, J. Stick him on ignore and forget about him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 08:07:33 PM
Time for the Bye Bye Blotus  awards.

I immediately took to this one, sponsored by Jimmy Kimmel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqu8ojifhU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqu8ojifhU)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 25, 2021, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 08:07:33 PM
Time for the Bye Bye Blotus  awards.

I immediately took to this one, sponsored by Jimmy Kimmel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqu8ojifhU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqu8ojifhU)

That's awesome! ;D

The Crazy Horse carving will be amazing whenever they finally finish it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 10:59:36 PM
Jimmy Fallon puts on his nimble dancing shoes  and offers his post Blotus response 

"Normal Tweets" + encore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=261&v=YlVqhRiT1FE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=261&v=YlVqhRiT1FE&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2021, 12:13:09 AM
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/01/25/bill-maher-says-racism-in-america-is-exaggerated/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Bill Maher says racism in America  is exaggerated

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: restorepride on January 26, 2021, 12:23:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 12:13:09 AM
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/01/25/bill-maher-says-racism-in-america-is-exaggerated/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Bill Maher says racism in America  is exaggerated
Liam Ó Meachair needs to examine his roots! 

As the native American said to the Irish native "Irish? Oh yes, you too have suffered at the hands of the white man."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 26, 2021, 12:52:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 12:13:09 AM
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/01/25/bill-maher-says-racism-in-america-is-exaggerated/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Bill Maher says racism in America  is exaggerated

Big fan of Breitbart are you Whitey. I thought you got all your information from independent sources and conversations with your friends and customers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2021, 01:07:20 AM
Quote from: omochain on January 26, 2021, 12:52:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 12:13:09 AM
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/01/25/bill-maher-says-racism-in-america-is-exaggerated/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Bill Maher says racism in America  is exaggerated

Big fan of Breitbart are you Whitey. I thought you got all your information from independent sources and conversations with your friends and customers.

Well,  if either The NY Times or WaPo had reported on this absolutely incredible admission by a hard core leftist, I would have happily posted up their links. 

Needless to say.....neither of them did (or at least I couldn't find them)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2021, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course

He was right to shut the pipeline down, especially after Trump basically binned environmental reviews. If jobs are such a concern, where the f**k was Trump and the GOP on infrastructure, stuff that is REALLY needed and will create MILLIONS of jobs?

He was right to halt the deportations. If someone is a convicted criminal awaiting deportation, they can hold them for a couple of months while they review the inhuman Trump policies.

He was right to allow transgender people to serve in the military. He was right to extend protections to all LGBTQ people.

He is right to have his government start to go after white supremacists and far right terrorists.

Joe is doing a decent job so far after the ignorance and bigotry of the Trump administration.

Keep it up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course

He was right to shut the pipeline down, especially after Trump basically binned environmental reviews. If jobs are such a concern, where the f**k was Trump and the GOP on infrastructure, stuff that is REALLY needed and will create MILLIONS of jobs?

He was right to halt the deportations. If someone is a convicted criminal awaiting deportation, they can hold them for a couple of months while they review the inhuman Trump policies.

He was right to allow transgender people to serve in the military. He was right to extend protections to all LGBTQ people.

He is right to have his government start to go after white supremacists and far right terrorists.

Joe is doing a decent job so far after the ignorance and bigotry of the Trump administration.

Keep it up.
on infrastructure he tried a 1.5 t plan with a mix of private and state and guess who shot it down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course

He was right to shut the pipeline down, especially after Trump basically binned environmental reviews. If jobs are such a concern, where the f**k was Trump and the GOP on infrastructure, stuff that is REALLY needed and will create MILLIONS of jobs?

He was right to halt the deportations. If someone is a convicted criminal awaiting deportation, they can hold them for a couple of months while they review the inhuman Trump policies.

He was right to allow transgender people to serve in the military. He was right to extend protections to all LGBTQ people.

He is right to have his government start to go after white supremacists and far right terrorists.

Joe is doing a decent job so far after the ignorance and bigotry of the Trump administration.

Keep it up.


Why would they hold someone for a couple of months if they are a convicted criminal alien?

Surely immediate removal is warranted


Regarding transgender athletes...IIRC I read somewhere that approx 300 "male" high school students have run faster times than the female world record holder for the 100/200 M. Doesn't matter to me, but I think it's highly unfair on "biological" female athletes (as opposed to those who "self identify" as female)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 27, 2021, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

That's because you believe what you read on nutjob websites rather than reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

That's because you believe what you read on nutjob websites rather than reality.

It's actually true

Look it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2021, 04:30:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course

He was right to shut the pipeline down, especially after Trump basically binned environmental reviews. If jobs are such a concern, where the f**k was Trump and the GOP on infrastructure, stuff that is REALLY needed and will create MILLIONS of jobs?

He was right to halt the deportations. If someone is a convicted criminal awaiting deportation, they can hold them for a couple of months while they review the inhuman Trump policies.

He was right to allow transgender people to serve in the military. He was right to extend protections to all LGBTQ people.

He is right to have his government start to go after white supremacists and far right terrorists.

Joe is doing a decent job so far after the ignorance and bigotry of the Trump administration.

Keep it up.
on infrastructure he tried a 1.5 t plan with a mix of private and state and guess who shot it down

It was mostly private. And only 200 m from the feds. With plenty of Republican objections too.

And Trump fought EVER so hard for it! ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2021, 04:36:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course

He was right to shut the pipeline down, especially after Trump basically binned environmental reviews. If jobs are such a concern, where the f**k was Trump and the GOP on infrastructure, stuff that is REALLY needed and will create MILLIONS of jobs?

He was right to halt the deportations. If someone is a convicted criminal awaiting deportation, they can hold them for a couple of months while they review the inhuman Trump policies.

He was right to allow transgender people to serve in the military. He was right to extend protections to all LGBTQ people.

He is right to have his government start to go after white supremacists and far right terrorists.

Joe is doing a decent job so far after the ignorance and bigotry of the Trump administration.

Keep it up.


Why would they hold someone for a couple of months if they are a convicted criminal alien?

Surely immediate removal is warranted


Regarding transgender athletes...IIRC I read somewhere that approx 300 "male" high school students have run faster times than the female world record holder for the 100/200 M. Doesn't matter to me, but I think it's highly unfair on "biological" female athletes (as opposed to those who "self identify" as female)

I guess they want to review all the cases. Its not like they're turning hardened convicts out on the streets or that Trump wasn't sweeping up the law-abiding illegal mother of four kids from down the road who worked in the chicken processing plant.

On transgender issues, nature is a bitch and sometimes complicated. Are you concerned about the "female" (to use your quotes) students who will be at a disadvantage against "biological" male athletes?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
J70

I don't care one way or the other.....has zero impact on me., but I don't understand your question

Biological female athletes are at a disadvantage to biological male athletes -are you disputing that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 04:30:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course

He was right to shut the pipeline down, especially after Trump basically binned environmental reviews. If jobs are such a concern, where the f**k was Trump and the GOP on infrastructure, stuff that is REALLY needed and will create MILLIONS of jobs?

He was right to halt the deportations. If someone is a convicted criminal awaiting deportation, they can hold them for a couple of months while they review the inhuman Trump policies.

He was right to allow transgender people to serve in the military. He was right to extend protections to all LGBTQ people.

He is right to have his government start to go after white supremacists and far right terrorists.

Joe is doing a decent job so far after the ignorance and bigotry of the Trump administration.

Keep it up.
on infrastructure he tried a 1.5 t plan with a mix of private and state and guess who shot it down

It was mostly private. And only 200 m from the feds. With plenty of Republican objections too.

And Trump fought EVER so hard for it! ::)
200 b    200 m wouldn't fill the potholes on the el Camino which are numerous and large . Thanks Gavin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2021, 04:56:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 04:30:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course

He was right to shut the pipeline down, especially after Trump basically binned environmental reviews. If jobs are such a concern, where the f**k was Trump and the GOP on infrastructure, stuff that is REALLY needed and will create MILLIONS of jobs?

He was right to halt the deportations. If someone is a convicted criminal awaiting deportation, they can hold them for a couple of months while they review the inhuman Trump policies.

He was right to allow transgender people to serve in the military. He was right to extend protections to all LGBTQ people.

He is right to have his government start to go after white supremacists and far right terrorists.

Joe is doing a decent job so far after the ignorance and bigotry of the Trump administration.

Keep it up.
on infrastructure he tried a 1.5 t plan with a mix of private and state and guess who shot it down

It was mostly private. And only 200 m from the feds. With plenty of Republican objections too.

And Trump fought EVER so hard for it! ::)
200 b    200 m wouldn't fill the potholes on the el Camino which are numerous and large . Thanks Gavin

Yes, 200 B was I meant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2021, 04:57:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
J70

I don't care one way or the other.....has zero impact on me., but I don't understand your question

Biological female athletes are at a disadvantage to biological male athletes -are you disputing that

Sure.

But so what?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:02:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 04:57:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
J70

I don't care one way or the other.....has zero impact on me., but I don't understand your question

Biological female athletes are at a disadvantage to biological male athletes -are you disputing that

Sure.

But so what?

Doesn't matter to me, but it sure bothers some biological female athletes who've taken this to court
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2021, 05:14:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:02:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 04:57:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
J70

I don't care one way or the other.....has zero impact on me., but I don't understand your question

Biological female athletes are at a disadvantage to biological male athletes -are you disputing that

Sure.

But so what?

Doesn't matter to me, but it sure bothers some biological female athletes who've taken this to court

I don't doubt it. And they might win those cases initially, but long term they won't. Nature is nature. Things don't always fit into neat boxes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:28:58 PM
The 2 right wing Irish Yanks missing the Trumpistan "dream time" :D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 05:37:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:28:58 PM
The 2 right wing Irish Yanks missing the Trumpistan "dream time" :D ;D
not really just keeping it balanced in the meantime here's a few math problems for you
2+2=?
4-1=?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:28:58 PM
The 2 right wing Irish Yanks missing the Trumpistan "dream time" :D ;D

Not really

Joe is doing exactly what I predicted a few weeks ago and pandering to the extreme fringes of the Democratic base with these executive actions

Some completely mad stuff altogether


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2021, 05:43:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:28:58 PM
The 2 right wing Irish Yanks missing the Trumpistan "dream time" :D ;D

Not really

Joe is doing exactly what I predicted a few weeks ago and pandering to the extreme fringes of the Democratic base with these executive actions

Some completely mad stuff altogether

Not much extremism out of Biden yet.

It's mostly middle of the road stuff.

Environmental realism and treating illegal immigrants and LGBTQ people like human beings is pretty mainstream stuff.

It is the Trump GOP that are the extremists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:46:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 05:37:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:28:58 PM
The 2 right wing Irish Yanks missing the Trumpistan "dream time" :D ;D
not really just keeping it balanced in the meantime here's a few math problems for you
2+2=?
4-1=?
Its MATHS ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:51:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 05:43:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:28:58 PM
The 2 right wing Irish Yanks missing the Trumpistan "dream time" :D ;D

Not really

Joe is doing exactly what I predicted a few weeks ago and pandering to the extreme fringes of the Democratic base with these executive actions

Some completely mad stuff altogether

Not much extremism out of Biden yet.

It's mostly middle of the road stuff.

Environmental realism and treating illegal immigrants and LGBTQ people like human beings is pretty mainstream stuff.

It is the Trump GOP that are the extremists.

Amen and Awomen to that

(So please explain to us tax payers and law abiding citizens how deporting the criminal undocumented is inhuman)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 27, 2021, 06:36:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

That's because you believe what you read on nutjob websites rather than reality.

It's actually true

Look it up

It's not actually true. If it was you could prove it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 07:25:44 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 06:36:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

That's because you believe what you read on nutjob websites rather than reality.

It's actually true

Look it up

It's not actually true. If it was you could prove it.

https://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/school-photo/


Believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 07:36:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 07:25:44 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 06:36:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

That's because you believe what you read on nutjob websites rather than reality.

It's actually true

Look it up

It's not actually true. If it was you could prove it.

https://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/school-photo/


Believe what you want

lol... did you even read the article you posted??!!

Ouch!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2021, 07:53:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:51:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 05:43:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:28:58 PM
The 2 right wing Irish Yanks missing the Trumpistan "dream time" :D ;D

Not really

Joe is doing exactly what I predicted a few weeks ago and pandering to the extreme fringes of the Democratic base with these executive actions

Some completely mad stuff altogether

Not much extremism out of Biden yet.

It's mostly middle of the road stuff.

Environmental realism and treating illegal immigrants and LGBTQ people like human beings is pretty mainstream stuff.

It is the Trump GOP that are the extremists.

Amen and Awomen to that

(So please explain to us tax payers and law abiding citizens how deporting the criminal undocumented is inhuman)

Why don't you explain to us tax paying, law-abiding citizens with basic decent morals how armed agents swooping in, seizing men and women working in a restaurant or on a processing line, lifting them up out of their own and their children's lives without warning or preparation, is treating them with basic human decency?

"Oh yeah all you kids, your mammies and daddies won't be picking you up from school today; they're all away off to prison, awaiting deportation out of the country. Enjoy your new lives".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 07:57:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 07:36:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 07:25:44 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 06:36:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

That's because you believe what you read on nutjob websites rather than reality.

It's actually true

Look it up

It's not actually true. If it was you could prove it.

https://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/school-photo/


Believe what you want

lol... did you even read the article you posted??!!

Ouch!

He did  it at least one other time... in my haste I posted up the wrong link
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 07:53:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:51:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 05:43:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:28:58 PM
The 2 right wing Irish Yanks missing the Trumpistan "dream time" :D ;D

Not really

Joe is doing exactly what I predicted a few weeks ago and pandering to the extreme fringes of the Democratic base with these executive actions

Some completely mad stuff altogether

Not much extremism out of Biden yet.

It's mostly middle of the road stuff.

Environmental realism and treating illegal immigrants and LGBTQ people like human beings is pretty mainstream stuff.

It is the Trump GOP that are the extremists.

Amen and Awomen to that

(So please explain to us tax payers and law abiding citizens how deporting the criminal undocumented is inhuman)

Why don't you explain to us tax paying, law-abiding citizens with basic decent morals how armed agents swooping in, seizing men and women working in a restaurant or on a processing line, lifting them up out of their own and their children's lives without warning or preparation, is treating them with basic human decency?

"Oh yeah all you kids, your mammies and daddies won't be picking you up from school today; they're all away off to prison, awaiting deportation out of the country. Enjoy your new lives".

J79...I'm talking about the convicted criminals.....stop changing the subject. You know I'm all for amnesty for the undocumented non criminals

My wife's sisters ex is (or at least was) out on some of these ICE raids. He can tell you all about who they're picking up....and it's not pretty

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-40-new-england-during-3-day-operation-targeting-criminal-aliens-and

"Most of the aliens targeted by ERO deportation officers during this operation had prior criminal histories that included convictions for crimes such as: assault, burglary, drug trafficking, possession of narcotics, discharge of a firearm, domestic violence, sexual exploitation of minor ,driving under the influence, fraud, illegal entry, hit and run, larceny, weapons possession, and sex offenses, among other charges."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 27, 2021, 08:08:34 PM
Yep.. whitey knows someone in the know.. the only data we can trust..  "the whitey anecdote". He can't even trust the old links to back up his Pronouncements.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 08:28:05 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 27, 2021, 08:08:34 PM
Yep.. whitey knows someone in the know.. the only data we can trust..  "the whitey anecdote". He can't even trust the old links to back up his Pronouncements.

Do you dispute the ICE write up of the arrests?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on January 27, 2021, 08:42:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 07:57:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 07:36:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 07:25:44 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 06:36:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: dec on January 27, 2021, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

That's because you believe what you read on nutjob websites rather than reality.

It's actually true

Look it up

It's not actually true. If it was you could prove it.

https://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/school-photo/


Believe what you want

lol... did you even read the article you posted??!!

Ouch!

He did  it at least one other time... in my haste I posted up the wrong link

Any danger of you posting the correct link?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2021, 09:01:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 07:53:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:51:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2021, 05:43:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:28:58 PM
The 2 right wing Irish Yanks missing the Trumpistan "dream time" :D ;D

Not really

Joe is doing exactly what I predicted a few weeks ago and pandering to the extreme fringes of the Democratic base with these executive actions

Some completely mad stuff altogether

Not much extremism out of Biden yet.

It's mostly middle of the road stuff.

Environmental realism and treating illegal immigrants and LGBTQ people like human beings is pretty mainstream stuff.

It is the Trump GOP that are the extremists.

Amen and Awomen to that

(So please explain to us tax payers and law abiding citizens how deporting the criminal undocumented is inhuman)

Why don't you explain to us tax paying, law-abiding citizens with basic decent morals how armed agents swooping in, seizing men and women working in a restaurant or on a processing line, lifting them up out of their own and their children's lives without warning or preparation, is treating them with basic human decency?

"Oh yeah all you kids, your mammies and daddies won't be picking you up from school today; they're all away off to prison, awaiting deportation out of the country. Enjoy your new lives".

J79...I'm talking about the convicted criminals.....stop changing the subject. You know I'm all for amnesty for the undocumented non criminals

My wife's sisters ex is (or at least was) out on some of these ICE raids. He can tell you all about who they're picking up....and it's not pretty

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-40-new-england-during-3-day-operation-targeting-criminal-aliens-and

"Most of the aliens targeted by ERO deportation officers during this operation had prior criminal histories that included convictions for crimes such as: assault, burglary, drug trafficking, possession of narcotics, discharge of a firearm, domestic violence, sexual exploitation of minor ,driving under the influence, fraud, illegal entry, hit and run, larceny, weapons possession, and sex offenses, among other charges."

I've no issue with deporting convicted criminals.

My problem is targeting those whose only "crime" is entering the country illegally. Trump was rounding them up too, including in mass raids. THAT is not decent or humane.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 27, 2021, 09:27:55 PM
Agree 100%

https://www.amazon.com/Distance-Between-Us-Memoir/dp/1451661789

https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Line-Death-U-S-Mexico-Border/dp/0375422439

If you have time these are two good books I have read on the subject

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2021, 01:53:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 27, 2021, 09:27:55 PM
Agree 100%

https://www.amazon.com/Distance-Between-Us-Memoir/dp/1451661789

https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Line-Death-U-S-Mexico-Border/dp/0375422439

If you have time these are two good books I have read on the subject

Thanks for the tip. Those look interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 28, 2021, 04:41:56 PM
Missed a good whitey anecdote when he went into hiding around the election

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/JtBR3xnYD3FkWiYsXp/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 29, 2021, 01:41:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course
Republican  satire, whether it be white supremacy, qanon, or just some good old fashioned  attempts to disenfranchise the Black vote, is totally absent. Where are the the bigot humorists?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 29, 2021, 06:36:15 AM
Whitey but mostly GMAC I have three words for ye... Marjorie Taylor Greene ... discuss
Anecdotal evidence is allowable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 29, 2021, 02:44:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 29, 2021, 01:41:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2021, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 26, 2021, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 26, 2021, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Colbert  generally more starightfaced, but brave enought to impersonate Ray Charles in his farewell tribute to Blotus
"Hit the Road Jack"
https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173 (https://youtu.be/FJwD_p5B-gw?t=173)
there should be a lot ammunition for satire from joe Biden's constant gaffes and obvious doting I wonder will Colbert and co jump on it ?

Trumpty Dumpty has reset the bar.

Not sure misspeaks are gonna cut it any more. Even Dubya looks impeccable now.

Reminds me of the time Obama used a teleprompter when speaking to a gang of primary school children

No point using a telepromter with Trumpty Dumpty as he probably can't read. Certainly not words longer than 4 letters.
colbert can keep sneering at trump but ignore joes day 1 executive orders
Kill thousands of jobs by shutting down keystone pipeline .
Stop the deportations of illegal alien criminals .
Allow boys/men to play female sport's and shower in girls locker rooms.
Forcing military to pay for transgender surgery.
Joe is just the front of course
Republican  satire, whether it be white supremacy, qanon, or just some good old fashioned  attempts to disenfranchise the Black vote, is totally absent. Where are the the bigot humorists?
if you don't vote for me you ain't black.   yes master joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 29, 2021, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 29, 2021, 06:36:15 AM
Whitey but mostly GMAC I have three words for ye... Marjorie Taylor Greene ... discuss
Anecdotal evidence is allowable.

I'm an independent not a Republican so I know nothing about her

I hate both parties almost equally
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 29, 2021, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: omochain on January 29, 2021, 06:36:15 AM
Whitey but mostly GMAC I have three words for ye... Marjorie Taylor Greene ... discuss
Anecdotal evidence is allowable.
I'll get back to you just making some tinfoil hats .🙄
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on January 30, 2021, 03:44:36 AM
Now that is an improvement on the usual keyboard gymnastics that you engage in😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 31, 2021, 10:20:39 AM
 Already 3 lawyers and two former federal prosecutors are  running from the scene,  refusing to defend Trump at the impeachment hearings on the basis of the great conspiracy the (recently resurrected) Hugo Chavez inspired  election fraud.

I don't see why Trump doesn't go with Sid and Rudy, they gave that conspiracy theory some welly and delivered it with gusto. So much so that some 90% of Republican supporters/voters believed them totally. Nothing they said was too batshit crazy for the republican voter. Get Sid and Rudy  back, they're the true voice of the Republican party.  And please pay Rudy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 01, 2021, 03:11:53 AM
Trump's new defense team.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/31/us/politics/trump-impeachment-lawyers.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 01, 2021, 03:38:04 AM
Trump' new defense team.
This link is better.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/31/politics/trump-new-lawyers/index.html
Sorry Lads .. could not find any reporting from Murdoch Media.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
 Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!

And rightly so. Some of the claims he made and repeated  were outrageous.

Pity CNN and MSNBC and The NY Times didn't take the same track with those who were spreading outrageous untruths about Trump and Russia
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on February 06, 2021, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!

And rightly so. Some of the claims he made and repeated  were outrageous.

Pity CNN and MSNBC and The NY Times didn't take the same track with those who were spreading outrageous untruths about Trump and Russia

Comrade Trump could always sue them if they were so far off the mark.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 06, 2021, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!

And rightly so. Some of the claims he made and repeated  were outrageous.

Pity CNN and MSNBC and The NY Times didn't take the same track with those who were spreading outrageous untruths about Trump and Russia

The known outragous truths about Trump outrank the allegations

Comrade Trump could always sue them if they were so far off the mark.
And cry me a river about the compulsive liar Trump having to endure a smear and the odd shower of pee.
By a factor of a 100, the known outrageous truths about Trump  outrank the account of Trump falling head long into Putin's web. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 06, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 06, 2021, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!

And rightly so. Some of the claims he made and repeated  were outrageous.

Pity CNN and MSNBC and The NY Times didn't take the same track with those who were spreading outrageous untruths about Trump and Russia

The known outragous truths about Trump outrank the allegations

Comrade Trump could always sue them if they were so far off the mark.
And cry me a river about the compulsive liar Trump having to endure a smear and the odd shower of pee.
By a factor of a 100, the known outrageous truths about Trump  outrank the account of Trump falling head long into Putin's web.

You think it's the media's job to undermine the legitimacy of an election by spreading misinformation peddled by the losing candidates campaign?

Because, that's exactly what happened


"For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument. In Brooklyn, her team coalesced around the idea that Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary's own private-server imbroglio."

https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Inside-Hillary-Clintons-Campaign/dp/0553447084

Page 395
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 06, 2021, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!

And rightly so. Some of the claims he made and repeated  were outrageous.

Pity CNN and MSNBC and The NY Times didn't take the same track with those who were spreading outrageous untruths about Trump and Russia

The known outragous truths about Trump outrank the allegations

Comrade Trump could always sue them if they were so far off the mark.
And cry me a river about the compulsive liar Trump having to endure a smear and the odd shower of pee.
By a factor of a 100, the known outrageous truths about Trump  outrank the account of Trump falling head long into Putin's web.

You think it's the media's job to undermine the legitimacy of an election by spreading misinformation peddled by the losing candidates campaign?

Because, that's exactly what happened


"For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument. In Brooklyn, her team coalesced around the idea that Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary's own private-server imbroglio."

https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Inside-Hillary-Clintons-Campaign/dp/0553447084

Page 395

Whatatboutery -  as If I gave a feck about Hilary or that idiotic argument that a bad bad evil Hilary somehow rubs away even a paltry 1% of the dirt that is glued to the lying sack of shit Trump.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 07, 2021, 05:00:23 AM
Good man Whitey.. you do try hard to be "Fair and Balanced". Your efforts at hating both parties equally needs a bit of work though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 07, 2021, 11:38:00 AM
Quote from: omochain on February 07, 2021, 05:00:23 AM
Good man Whitey.. you do try hard to be "Fair and Balanced". Your efforts at hating both parties equally needs a bit of work though.

to be fair it's Trump he has the issue with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 07, 2021, 06:30:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 06, 2021, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!

And rightly so. Some of the claims he made and repeated  were outrageous.

Pity CNN and MSNBC and The NY Times didn't take the same track with those who were spreading outrageous untruths about Trump and Russia

The known outragous truths about Trump outrank the allegations

Comrade Trump could always sue them if they were so far off the mark.
And cry me a river about the compulsive liar Trump having to endure a smear and the odd shower of pee.
By a factor of a 100, the known outrageous truths about Trump  outrank the account of Trump falling head long into Putin's web.

You think it's the media's job to undermine the legitimacy of an election by spreading misinformation peddled by the losing candidates campaign?

Because, that's exactly what happened


"For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument. In Brooklyn, her team coalesced around the idea that Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary's own private-server imbroglio."

https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Inside-Hillary-Clintons-Campaign/dp/0553447084

Page 395

Whatatboutery -  as If I gave a feck about Hilary or that idiotic argument that a bad bad evil Hilary somehow rubs away even a paltry 1% of the dirt that is glued to the lying sack of shit Trump.

And never mind the inconvenient fact that everything in the Shake Shack session was true, and admitted by the GOP Senate investigations.

But whitey is the king of false equivalency, so it's par for the course.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2021, 08:28:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 06:30:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 06, 2021, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!

And rightly so. Some of the claims he made and repeated  were outrageous.

Pity CNN and MSNBC and The NY Times didn't take the same track with those who were spreading outrageous untruths about Trump and Russia

The known outragous truths about Trump outrank the allegations

Comrade Trump could always sue them if they were so far off the mark.
And cry me a river about the compulsive liar Trump having to endure a smear and the odd shower of pee.
By a factor of a 100, the known outrageous truths about Trump  outrank the account of Trump falling head long into Putin's web.

You think it's the media's job to undermine the legitimacy of an election by spreading misinformation peddled by the losing candidates campaign?

Because, that's exactly what happened


"For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument. In Brooklyn, her team coalesced around the idea that Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary's own private-server imbroglio."

https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Inside-Hillary-Clintons-Campaign/dp/0553447084

Page 395

Whatatboutery -  as If I gave a feck about Hilary or that idiotic argument that a bad bad evil Hilary somehow rubs away even a paltry 1% of the dirt that is glued to the lying sack of shit Trump.

And never mind the inconvenient fact that everything in the Shake Shack session was true, and admitted by the GOP Senate investigations.

But whitey is the king of false equivalency, so it's par for the course.

So J70....if the GOP hired someone to concoct a false dossier on a Democratic presidential candidate, then fed the false dossier to rogue FBI Agents, who in turn used the contents as the main basis for FISA warrants to surveil the Democratic campaign, you'd be okay with that?

Then let's also assume that after the Hypothetical Democratic candidate won the Presidency-that CNN, MSNBC, The NY Times and the WAPO then repeated the claims of the dossier as fact in an effort to undermine the legitimacy of the newly elected Democratic President.....you'd be okay with that too?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 07, 2021, 08:36:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 06, 2021, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!

And rightly so. Some of the claims he made and repeated  were outrageous.

Pity CNN and MSNBC and The NY Times didn't take the same track with those who were spreading outrageous untruths about Trump and Russia

The known outragous truths about Trump outrank the allegations

Comrade Trump could always sue them if they were so far off the mark.
And cry me a river about the compulsive liar Trump having to endure a smear and the odd shower of pee.
By a factor of a 100, the known outrageous truths about Trump  outrank the account of Trump falling head long into Putin's web.

You think it's the media's job to undermine the legitimacy of an election by spreading misinformation peddled by the losing candidates campaign?

Because, that's exactly what happened


"For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument. In Brooklyn, her team coalesced around the idea that Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary's own private-server imbroglio."

https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Inside-Hillary-Clintons-Campaign/dp/0553447084

Page 395

Whatatboutery -  as If I gave a feck about Hilary or that idiotic argument that a bad bad evil Hilary somehow rubs away even a paltry 1% of the dirt that is glued to the lying sack of shit Trump.

Main Street.....I know you don't give a feck, because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Jonathan Allen had direct and unfettered access to the Clinton campaign.  He had first hand conversations with members of the Clinton campaign who concocted this pile of nonsense the day after the election.  It was repeated ad nauseam in the left leaning media and Posters like Sid, J70 and Omochain (and a few more) swallowed it hook line and sinker
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 08, 2021, 02:13:23 AM
Now let's get the facts straight.. was the dossier not initially contracted by GOP dudes to knock out Trump and then the Dems ran with it when Trump won the GOP nomination. By the way the dossier proved to be mostly on the money. Just a lot of the salacious stuff unverifiable. But Trump messing with hookers; now that is not a credible notion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2021, 04:03:32 AM
listen omochain - whitey doesn't support Trump or voted for him.

He's just defended him religiously on here for the last 6 years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2021, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on February 08, 2021, 02:13:23 AM
Now let's get the facts straight.. was the dossier not initially contracted by GOP dudes to knock out Trump and then the Dems ran with it when Trump won the GOP nomination. By the way the dossier proved to be mostly on the money. Just a lot of the salacious stuff unverifiable. But Trump messing with hookers; now that is not a credible notion.

Nah....they're just the Democratic/CNN taking points

The facts are much different
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2021, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2021, 04:03:32 AM
listen omochain - whitey doesn't support Trump or voted for him.

He's just defended him religiously on here for the last 6 years.

Where am I defending him?

The Democrats concocted a conspiracy theory to cast doubt on his victory and attempted to undermine his legitimacy from Day One

It's not me saying it

It's not Fox News saying it

It's people who were high up in the Clinton campaign who said it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 08, 2021, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 07, 2021, 08:28:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2021, 06:30:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2021, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 06, 2021, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 06, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 06, 2021, 04:28:31 AM
Fox just moved Lou Dobbs to the bench.. I guess Trump is right.. getting sued hurts!

And rightly so. Some of the claims he made and repeated  were outrageous.

Pity CNN and MSNBC and The NY Times didn't take the same track with those who were spreading outrageous untruths about Trump and Russia

The known outragous truths about Trump outrank the allegations

Comrade Trump could always sue them if they were so far off the mark.
And cry me a river about the compulsive liar Trump having to endure a smear and the odd shower of pee.
By a factor of a 100, the known outrageous truths about Trump  outrank the account of Trump falling head long into Putin's web.

You think it's the media's job to undermine the legitimacy of an election by spreading misinformation peddled by the losing candidates campaign?

Because, that's exactly what happened


"For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument. In Brooklyn, her team coalesced around the idea that Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary's own private-server imbroglio."

https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Inside-Hillary-Clintons-Campaign/dp/0553447084

Page 395

Whatatboutery -  as If I gave a feck about Hilary or that idiotic argument that a bad bad evil Hilary somehow rubs away even a paltry 1% of the dirt that is glued to the lying sack of shit Trump.

And never mind the inconvenient fact that everything in the Shake Shack session was true, and admitted by the GOP Senate investigations.

But whitey is the king of false equivalency, so it's par for the course.

So J70....if the GOP hired someone to concoct a false dossier on a Democratic presidential candidate, then fed the false dossier to rogue FBI Agents, who in turn used the contents as the main basis for FISA warrants to surveil the Democratic campaign, you'd be okay with that?

Then let's also assume that after the Hypothetical Democratic candidate won the Presidency-that CNN, MSNBC, The NY Times and the WAPO then repeated the claims of the dossier as fact in an effort to undermine the legitimacy of the newly elected Democratic President.....you'd be okay with that too?

1.   Where the evidence the Dems hired someone to concoct a FALSE dossier?
2.   Where is your proof that rogue FBI agents were "fed" the info, that they knew it was false or that they unilaterally decided to surveil Page?
3.   EVERYONE talked about the dossier FFS. After Buzzfeed published it, how could they not? The concerns about Trump and Russia didn't spring up out of the blue.
4.   There is simply NO EQUIVALENCY between reporting on the dossier or any of the other allegations against Trump and the utterly baseless pushing of the election fraud conspiracy theories carried out by the GOP and right wing news organizations over the past few months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 08, 2021, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2021, 04:03:32 AM
listen omochain - whitey doesn't support Trump or voted for him.

He's just defended him religiously on here for the last 6 years.

Where am I defending him?

The Democrats concocted a conspiracy theory to cast doubt on his victory and attempted to undermine his legitimacy from Day One

It's not me saying it

It's not Fox News saying it

It's people who were high up in the Clinton campaign who said it

Yeah, it IS you saying it.

The Clinton campaign's concerns about Russian interference were perfectly legitimate and well-founded.

Whether or not they used that fact to brush over Hillary's own issues or weaknesses is irrelevant.

Whereas there is zero foundation for the campaign Trump, Giuliani, Fox News, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh and the rest have run over the past three months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
J70

So would you now not agree that it was the Clinton campaign who were the ones "colluding" with Russians

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/24/steele-dossier-russia-doj-421536
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 08, 2021, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
J70

So would you now not agree that it was the Clinton campaign who were the ones "colluding" with Russians

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/24/steele-dossier-russia-doj-421536

Its early Monday morning, so you will have to explain to me how one of a hired investigator's sources being suspected years earlier of contacts with Russian agents is the same thing as the campaign actively seeking the assistance of the actual Russian government.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
J70

So would you now not agree that it was the Clinton campaign who were the ones "colluding" with Russians

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/24/steele-dossier-russia-doj-421536

Its early Monday morning, so you will have to explain to me how one of a hired investigator's sources being suspected years earlier of contacts with Russian agents is the same thing as the campaign actively seeking the assistance of the actual Russian government.

Like your style of deflection

He was the PRIMARY SOURCE of the dossier

And the FBI knew in December of 2016 that was the case

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. If something similar had been pulled on a Democrats you guys would be apoplectic (and rightly so)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
J70

So would you now not agree that it was the Clinton campaign who were the ones "colluding" with Russians

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/24/steele-dossier-russia-doj-421536

Its early Monday morning, so you will have to explain to me how one of a hired investigator's sources being suspected years earlier of contacts with Russian agents is the same thing as the campaign actively seeking the assistance of the actual Russian government.

Like your style of deflection

He was the PRIMARY SOURCE of the dossier

And the FBI knew in December of 2016 that was the case

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. If something similar had been pulled on a Democrats you guys would be apoplectic (and rightly so)

Speaking of defelction, you didn't answer how that is apparently equivalent to colluding with the Russian goverment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2021, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
J70

So would you now not agree that it was the Clinton campaign who were the ones "colluding" with Russians

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/24/steele-dossier-russia-doj-421536

Its early Monday morning, so you will have to explain to me how one of a hired investigator's sources being suspected years earlier of contacts with Russian agents is the same thing as the campaign actively seeking the assistance of the actual Russian government.

Like your style of deflection

He was the PRIMARY SOURCE of the dossier

And the FBI knew in December of 2016 that was the case

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. If something similar had been pulled on a Democrats you guys would be apoplectic (and rightly so)

Speaking of defelction, you didn't answer how that is apparently equivalent to colluding with the Russian goverment.


Attempted collusion

Clowns who had never run a campaign before accepted a meeting with someone they shouldn't have
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 08, 2021, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
J70

So would you now not agree that it was the Clinton campaign who were the ones "colluding" with Russians

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/24/steele-dossier-russia-doj-421536

Its early Monday morning, so you will have to explain to me how one of a hired investigator's sources being suspected years earlier of contacts with Russian agents is the same thing as the campaign actively seeking the assistance of the actual Russian government.

Like your style of deflection

He was the PRIMARY SOURCE of the dossier

And the FBI knew in December of 2016 that was the case

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. If something similar had been pulled on a Democrats you guys would be apoplectic (and rightly so)

Speaking of defelction, you didn't answer how that is apparently equivalent to colluding with the Russian goverment.


Attempted collusion

Clowns who had never run a campaign before accepted a meeting with someone they shouldn't have

Ok (whether or not they actually managed to collude is beside the point here).

But where is the equivalency in any of these comparisons you're drawing?

Between doing your oppo research by hiring a private investigator and trying to collude with a government?

Between raising legitimate concerns to the authorities and an entire party/movement and media outlets that have become a anti-democratic personality cult trying to publicly undermine and steal an election, culminating in a murderous invasion of government buildings?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 08, 2021, 03:13:31 PM
DEFINITELY NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER - NO SIR

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5qgciwvu71qhhaooo1_400.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 08, 2021, 03:53:24 PM
Have the Kansas City Chiefs accepted the result of the Super Bowl or are they pulling a Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 08, 2021, 04:21:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
J70

So would you now not agree that it was the Clinton campaign who were the ones "colluding" with Russians

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/24/steele-dossier-russia-doj-421536

Its early Monday morning, so you will have to explain to me how one of a hired investigator's sources being suspected years earlier of contacts with Russian agents is the same thing as the campaign actively seeking the assistance of the actual Russian government.

Like your style of deflection

He was the PRIMARY SOURCE of the dossier

And the FBI knew in December of 2016 that was the case

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. If something similar had been pulled on a Democrats you guys would be apoplectic (and rightly so)

Speaking of defelction, you didn't answer how that is apparently equivalent to colluding with the Russian goverment.


Attempted collusion

Clowns who had never run a campaign before accepted a meeting with someone they shouldn't have

Ok (whether or not they actually managed to collude is beside the point here).

But where is the equivalency in any of these comparisons you're drawing?

Between doing your oppo research by hiring a private investigator and trying to collude with a government?

Between raising legitimate concerns to the authorities and an entire party/movement and media outlets that have become a anti-democratic personality cult trying to publicly undermine and steal an election, culminating in a murderous invasion of government buildings?

So is Jonathan Allen lying in the book or are the people from the Clinton campaign lying with the information they gave him about the Brooklyn meeting held the day after the 2016 election?

Regarding the dossier, if it was so ironclad why did the FBI agents need to lie, twist and omit?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 08, 2021, 04:48:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 04:21:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 08, 2021, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 08, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
J70

So would you now not agree that it was the Clinton campaign who were the ones "colluding" with Russians

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/24/steele-dossier-russia-doj-421536

Its early Monday morning, so you will have to explain to me how one of a hired investigator's sources being suspected years earlier of contacts with Russian agents is the same thing as the campaign actively seeking the assistance of the actual Russian government.

Like your style of deflection

He was the PRIMARY SOURCE of the dossier

And the FBI knew in December of 2016 that was the case

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. If something similar had been pulled on a Democrats you guys would be apoplectic (and rightly so)

Speaking of defelction, you didn't answer how that is apparently equivalent to colluding with the Russian goverment.


Attempted collusion

Clowns who had never run a campaign before accepted a meeting with someone they shouldn't have

Ok (whether or not they actually managed to collude is beside the point here).

But where is the equivalency in any of these comparisons you're drawing?

Between doing your oppo research by hiring a private investigator and trying to collude with a government?

Between raising legitimate concerns to the authorities and an entire party/movement and media outlets that have become a anti-democratic personality cult trying to publicly undermine and steal an election, culminating in a murderous invasion of government buildings?

So is Jonathan Allen lying in the book or are the people from the Clinton campaign lying with the information they gave him about the Brooklyn meeting held the day after the 2016 election?

Regarding the dossier, if it was so ironclad why did the FBI agents need to lie, twist and omit?

I didn't read the book. I only know what you've posted here about the "shake shack meeting" which seems, to me, to document a campaign team looking to shift the blame for their loss, as I've already said. That they were looking for a scapegoat doesn't make the issue of Russian interference any less legitimate.

I didn't say anything about the dossier being ironclad. When Buzzfeed subsequently published it, they were clear that some of it, at least, was unsubstantiated. Regardless, if what was reported was concerning, it was absolutely correct that it be passed on to the FBI. Their role, after all, is to pursue concerns and allegations of federal criminality. And so far, not much of substance in terms of criminally or politically-motivated misconduct or errors on the part of their investigators has been proven, despite all the noise and hype from Trump etc.

Maybe Durham will still come through for the right. These agents don't, after all, have a president publicly undermining the investigation and promising pardons for them in return for non-cooperation. And Durham has Special Prosecutor status now.

Or maybe it will turn out they did in fact do little wrong of a criminal nature.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 08, 2021, 05:49:18 PM
J70.. I don't know why you bother.. neither facts nor logic are strong enough to convince Whitey that his Murdoch media slant on the Universe is not the word of the Lord.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 11, 2021, 05:53:03 PM
The latest batsh*t Republican conspiracy theory.
Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin claimed that Nancy Pelosi (not  Trump)  was to blame for the MAGA terrorist riot at the US Capitol.
He was "suspicious. that the impeachment was part of a plot to divert attention from Pelosi.

"Is this (Impeachment) another diversionary operation? Is this meant to deflect away from potentially what the speaker knew and when she knew it?" Johnson said. "I don't know, but I'm suspicious."
"Potentially" what was Nancy supposed to "know"??
that Trump would go on stage Jan 6th and whip up his MAGA followers into a frenzy and try to effect a coup  in order to stop the vote in progress. That MAGA hordes would invade Congress screaming her name and that she would have prearranged that the national guard would stand back and stand by and allow the invasion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
Of course, Senator Johnson knows he is talking through his hole, and he knows most other people know, but all he cares about is how his comments sit with the increasingly unhinged GOP base.

https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/ (https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 06:59:08 PM
I think Johnson works with the Russians

Certainly one of the primary conduits for Russian influence in right-wing America
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on February 11, 2021, 07:08:42 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 07:43:55 PM
The actual leadership of the actual Republican party were caught on tape saying that Putin paid Trump as well as Rohrabacher

Since Rohrabacher lost his seat Johnson has taken up the mantle

But sure believe whatever you want to to believe, mate, that's obviously your mindset

I've continually called things correct here and that clearly seriously triggers you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 11, 2021, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
Of course, Senator Johnson knows he is talking through his hole, and he knows most other people know, but all he cares about is how his comments sit with the increasingly unhinged GOP base.

https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/ (https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/)
in that article, Johnson more or less says it would be his political suicide in his republican constituency  unless he subscribes to batsh*t conspiracy theories and support (by his silence)  the existence of the MAGA terrorist wing.  That makes sense, I can see he has a fair point, however the Milwaukee Sentinel called for his resignation. Senator Ron was so irked he penned a reply which was published despite the lie count (still counting).
https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five (https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 08:08:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 11, 2021, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
Of course, Senator Johnson knows he is talking through his hole, and he knows most other people know, but all he cares about is how his comments sit with the increasingly unhinged GOP base.

https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/ (https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/)
in that article, Johnson more or less says it would be his political suicide in his republican constituency  unless he subscribes to batsh*t conspiracy theories and support (by his silence)  the existence of the MAGA terrorist wing.  That makes sense, I can see he has a fair point, however the Milwaukee Sentinel called for his resignation. Senator Ron was so irked he penned a reply which was published despite the lie count (still counting).
https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five (https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five)
If that's his base, and it is, and he encouraged it, which he did, he should vote for conviction and then immediately resign from all politics

Nobody should have the least sympathy for somebody who is relying on a bunch of crazies for votes

He cultivated that craziness and he should have no place in public life
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2021, 01:09:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 08:08:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 11, 2021, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
Of course, Senator Johnson knows he is talking through his hole, and he knows most other people know, but all he cares about is how his comments sit with the increasingly unhinged GOP base.

https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/ (https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/)
in that article, Johnson more or less says it would be his political suicide in his republican constituency  unless he subscribes to batsh*t conspiracy theories and support (by his silence)  the existence of the MAGA terrorist wing.  That makes sense, I can see he has a fair point, however the Milwaukee Sentinel called for his resignation. Senator Ron was so irked he penned a reply which was published despite the lie count (still counting).
https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five (https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five)
If that's his base, and it is, and he encouraged it, which he did, he should vote for conviction and then immediately resign from all politics

Nobody should have the least sympathy for somebody who is relying on a bunch of crazies for votes

He cultivated that craziness and he should have no place in public life

Following that logic Sid, how come we didn't see too many (if any) Democrats to come out and condemn the mobs that tried to burn several cities to the ground this Summer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 12, 2021, 03:13:00 AM
Is fang fang swalwell a case manager for the Democrats? Ccp demanded I guess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 12, 2021, 03:25:31 AM
You two live in an alternative Murdoch informed universe. God love the both of you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 12, 2021, 03:29:31 AM
Quote from: trileacman on February 11, 2021, 07:08:42 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg)

Try this Trileacman
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/house-majority-leader-to-colleagues-in-2016-i-think-putin-pays-trump/2017/05/17/515f6f8a-3aff-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/17/putin-pays-donald-trump-kevin-mccarthy-recording
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 12, 2021, 03:32:22 AM
Quote from: omochain on February 12, 2021, 03:25:31 AM
You two live in an alternative Murdoch informed universe. God love the both of you.
see another hero of the left cuomo caught hiding nursing home data, he's a slimy c$nt.
God doesn't exist omochain get with your liberal program
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 01:09:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 08:08:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 11, 2021, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
Of course, Senator Johnson knows he is talking through his hole, and he knows most other people know, but all he cares about is how his comments sit with the increasingly unhinged GOP base.

https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/ (https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/)
in that article, Johnson more or less says it would be his political suicide in his republican constituency  unless he subscribes to batsh*t conspiracy theories and support (by his silence)  the existence of the MAGA terrorist wing.  That makes sense, I can see he has a fair point, however the Milwaukee Sentinel called for his resignation. Senator Ron was so irked he penned a reply which was published despite the lie count (still counting).
https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five (https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five)
If that's his base, and it is, and he encouraged it, which he did, he should vote for conviction and then immediately resign from all politics

Nobody should have the least sympathy for somebody who is relying on a bunch of crazies for votes

He cultivated that craziness and he should have no place in public life

Following that logic Sid, how come we didn't see too many (if any) Democrats to come out and condemn the mobs that tried to burn several cities to the ground this Summer

You weren't listening too hard if you failed to see any Democrats condemn protests that turned into riots.

And you also miss the crucial point that at least the George Floyd protests were based on something real and worth protesting, and not the result of decades of cultivating paranoia and grievance in a section of the population and bringing that to a murderous head through a baseless, bullshit campaign of lies and propaganda, all in the service of the narcissistic leader of the unhinged cult that has replaced the American conservative movement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 12:14:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 12, 2021, 03:13:00 AM
Is fang fang swalwell a case manager for the Democrats? Ccp demanded I guess.

Do you have anything to say about the substance of what Swalwell has been laying out?

Did Swalwell in fact do anything wrong? Did he hand over information to the spy? Did he fail to cooperate with or try to hide anything from the FBI? Is there any actual basis for your "CCP demanded it" comment?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2021, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 12, 2021, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 01:09:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 08:08:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 11, 2021, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
Of course, Senator Johnson knows he is talking through his hole, and he knows most other people know, but all he cares about is how his comments sit with the increasingly unhinged GOP base.

https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/ (https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/)
in that article, Johnson more or less says it would be his political suicide in his republican constituency  unless he subscribes to batsh*t conspiracy theories and support (by his silence)  the existence of the MAGA terrorist wing.  That makes sense, I can see he has a fair point, however the Milwaukee Sentinel called for his resignation. Senator Ron was so irked he penned a reply which was published despite the lie count (still counting).
https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five (https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five)
If that's his base, and it is, and he encouraged it, which he did, he should vote for conviction and then immediately resign from all politics

Nobody should have the least sympathy for somebody who is relying on a bunch of crazies for votes

He cultivated that craziness and he should have no place in public life

Following that logic Sid, how come we didn't see too many (if any) Democrats to come out and condemn the mobs that tried to burn several cities to the ground this Summer

You weren't listening too hard if you failed to see any Democrats condemn protests that turned into riots.

And you also miss the crucial point that at least the George Floyd protests were based on something real and worth protesting, and not the result of decades of cultivating paranoia and grievance in a section of the population and bringing that to a murderous head through a baseless, bullshit campaign of lies and propaganda, all in the service of the narcissistic leader of the unhinged cult that has replaced the American conservative movement.

18 police officers injured when a mob tried to pull down an effin statue of Christopher Columbus

That'll show them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/07/18/chicago-grant-park-columbus-statue-protest-cpd/amp/

Police, who by the way, are trying to maintain  law and order in a city that had close to 800 murders last year and has now  a huge problem with armed teenage carjackers

Must be great  to live in lala land
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 01:40:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 12, 2021, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 01:09:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 08:08:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 11, 2021, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
Of course, Senator Johnson knows he is talking through his hole, and he knows most other people know, but all he cares about is how his comments sit with the increasingly unhinged GOP base.

https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/ (https://thebulwark.com/my-call-with-ron-johnson-he-knows-biden-won-but-wont-admit-it/)
in that article, Johnson more or less says it would be his political suicide in his republican constituency  unless he subscribes to batsh*t conspiracy theories and support (by his silence)  the existence of the MAGA terrorist wing.  That makes sense, I can see he has a fair point, however the Milwaukee Sentinel called for his resignation. Senator Ron was so irked he penned a reply which was published despite the lie count (still counting).
https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five (https://eu.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/solutions/2021/01/19/sen-ron-johnson-calls-editorial-unhinged-editorial-board-responds/4204754001/#five)
If that's his base, and it is, and he encouraged it, which he did, he should vote for conviction and then immediately resign from all politics

Nobody should have the least sympathy for somebody who is relying on a bunch of crazies for votes

He cultivated that craziness and he should have no place in public life

Following that logic Sid, how come we didn't see too many (if any) Democrats to come out and condemn the mobs that tried to burn several cities to the ground this Summer

You weren't listening too hard if you failed to see any Democrats condemn protests that turned into riots.

And you also miss the crucial point that at least the George Floyd protests were based on something real and worth protesting, and not the result of decades of cultivating paranoia and grievance in a section of the population and bringing that to a murderous head through a baseless, bullshit campaign of lies and propaganda, all in the service of the narcissistic leader of the unhinged cult that has replaced the American conservative movement.

18 police officers injured when a mob tried to pull down an effin statue of Christopher Columbus

That'll show them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/07/18/chicago-grant-park-columbus-statue-protest-cpd/amp/

Police, who by the way, are trying to maintain  law and order in a city that had close to 800 murders last year and has now  a huge problem with armed teenage carjackers

Must be great  to live in lala land

Nothing wrong with protesting against the honouring of people like Columbus. Its a perfectly valid position to hold.

Of course it should be done peacefully and not just seized upon as an excuse to riot or attack cops.

As pointed out by the Chicago mayor in her comments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2021, 01:51:48 PM
It's wasn't a protest-It was a prepalnned riot

They brought changes of clothes and had frozen water bottles with them

Most of those arrested iirc, weren't even people of Color.....they were white Antifa type troublemakers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 02:08:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 01:51:48 PM
It's wasn't a protest-It was a prepalnned riot

They brought changes of clothes and had frozen water bottles with them

Most of those arrested iirc, weren't even people of Color.....they were white Antifa type troublemakers

Ok.

I don't anyone denies that antifa-types (and far-right types too) took advantage of the BLM protests in some cases. That does not delegitimize what drove the George Floyd protests, which was an actual, real-life historical issue of injustice, and not a paranoid, bigoted fantasy cultivated by the right wing media and politicians and culminating in the Trump voter-fraud fraud and assault on the Capitol.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 05:19:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 12, 2021, 03:32:22 AM
Quote from: omochain on February 12, 2021, 03:25:31 AM
You two live in an alternative Murdoch informed universe. God love the both of you.
see another hero of the left cuomo caught hiding nursing home data, he's a slimy c$nt.
God doesn't exist omochain get with your liberal program

I agree with you on Cuomo this time.

I think the original decision on nursing homes was a well-intentioned mistake in the midst of an unfolding disaster, but trying to fudge the numbers and say that they died in hospitals, when in fact they died in hospitals after getting sick while in nursing homes, is inexcusable, and, ultimately, pointless.

Its not like he wasn't getting hammered on the issue anyway, so why try to cover it up? Especially when he was otherwise being credited for a sober, realistic management of the outbreak within the state, and when the truth was always going to come out.

He is not going to be a shoo-in for re-election after all, although, as with Trump, that depends on if anyone will challenge him in the primary.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:01:51 PM
Fair play to Biden for telling that weasel Michael Martin go stay at home.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/02/i-will-destroy-you-biden-aide-threatened-a-politico-reporter-pursuing-a-story-on-his-relationship/amp


Should be interesting to see how the NYT, WaPo and CNN handle this story

WOW
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 07:05:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/02/i-will-destroy-you-biden-aide-threatened-a-politico-reporter-pursuing-a-story-on-his-relationship/amp


Should be interesting to see how the NYT, WaPo and CNN handle this story

WOW

Yes, if it doesn't knock the impeachment trial and the COVID pandemic and vaccines off the front page headlines, your political worldview is safe for another while.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 12, 2021, 07:09:54 PM
The Democrats and their attack dogs in the media look like they are turning their attention to desantis in Florida now with talk of a travel ban , they need to destroy him before he gets too popular .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2021, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 12, 2021, 07:05:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/02/i-will-destroy-you-biden-aide-threatened-a-politico-reporter-pursuing-a-story-on-his-relationship/amp


Should be interesting to see how the NYT, WaPo and CNN handle this story

WOW

Yes, if it doesn't knock the impeachment trial and the COVID pandemic and vaccines off the front page headlines, your political worldview is safe for another while.

Translation....nothing to see here. Move along please

(If a member of Trumps administration did that I can only imagine what would be said)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 07:12:56 PM
CNN has it up: https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/12/media/tj-ducklo-white-house-suspended/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/12/media/tj-ducklo-white-house-suspended/index.html)
Post too: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/12/trump-impeachment-trial-live-updates/#link-YZABBZCGAJDZLM26SYMZBNTFJI (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/12/trump-impeachment-trial-live-updates/#link-YZABBZCGAJDZLM26SYMZBNTFJI)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 07:20:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 12, 2021, 07:05:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/02/i-will-destroy-you-biden-aide-threatened-a-politico-reporter-pursuing-a-story-on-his-relationship/amp


Should be interesting to see how the NYT, WaPo and CNN handle this story

WOW

Yes, if it doesn't knock the impeachment trial and the COVID pandemic and vaccines off the front page headlines, your political worldview is safe for another while.

Translation....nothing to see here. Move along please

(If a member of Trumps administration did that I can only imagine what would be said)

I didn't comment on the substance of the story at all. f**ker has been suspended without pay as of this afternoon. Good enough for him if its true.

I commented on that the fact that your only apparent motivating political belief is that the "mainstream media" is somehow unfair to Republicans and you go trawling for evidence to reinforce that so you can post it here.

Never mind that the story is up on CNN and the Post within an hour of it breaking, and a Post opinion writer was discussing the relationship as of yesterday.

And now I'm just annoyed at myself for getting sucked into taking the time to actually look into this bollocks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2021, 07:36:20 PM
I meant to ask you J70....have you read White Fragility?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 12, 2021, 07:39:19 PM
The impeachment trial is a waffle feast. The best and most succinct argument so far only took 3 seconds, 'there is no January exception'.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 07:47:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 07:36:20 PM
I meant to ask you J70....have you read White Fragility?

I have not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 12, 2021, 07:49:40 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 12, 2021, 07:39:19 PM
The impeachment trial is a waffle feast. The best and most succinct argument so far only took 3 seconds, 'there is no January exception'.

Especially when the party that controls the senate can refuse to bring the senate back so that they COULD deal with the issue before the president leaves office!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 13, 2021, 08:54:10 PM
7 decent Republicans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 13, 2021, 09:27:55 PM
Would have been more in a secret ballot as the gutless could have voted with their conscience.

The rest are devoid of morals and decency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 09:51:59 PM
The Democratic leadership is pure gutless

So predictable they'd cave on witnesses

Strange that a lot of people who think the Irish political system is highly corrupt are Trump lovers

If a Taoiseach got to .01% of what Trump did they'd be out

The US political system isn't remotely fit for purpose
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 13, 2021, 10:06:12 PM
The Democrats need trump he's all they've got , their policies  are not popular with the masses so they need the threat of trump reappearing to help them win . Remember fear mongering , hatred of trump supporters   hallmarks of the fascist dems
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 10:17:30 PM
Actually Republican policies are highly unpopular and always have been whereas progressive policies (which some Democrats advocate and more don't or are half hearted about) are hugely popular

That's why we have an international right-wing propaganda and disinformation war and have had for decades

To dress up a giant stinking turd as something attractive

Republicans have always privately admitted this

Unfortunately much of the masses buys that propaganda and disinformation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 13, 2021, 10:55:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 13, 2021, 10:06:12 PM
The Democrats need trump he's all they've got , their policies  are not popular with the masses so they need the threat of trump reappearing to help them win . Remember fear mongering , hatred of trump supporters   hallmarks of the fascist dems

There's nothing wrong with hating bigotry and ignorance.

And if Dem policies are so unpopular why is the right so reliant on conspiracy theories and lies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 14, 2021, 12:20:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/02/i-will-destroy-you-biden-aide-threatened-a-politico-reporter-pursuing-a-story-on-his-relationship/amp


Should be interesting to see how the NYT, WaPo and CNN handle this story

WOW

Made resign.

Must be strange for Americans see that people are actually accountable again who'd have thought?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2021, 01:12:44 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 14, 2021, 12:20:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/02/i-will-destroy-you-biden-aide-threatened-a-politico-reporter-pursuing-a-story-on-his-relationship/amp


Should be interesting to see how the NYT, WaPo and CNN handle this story

WOW

Made resign.

Must be strange for Americans see that people are actually accountable again who'd have thought?!

I thought Joe said people like him would be fired ON THE SPOT.....not asked to resign 3 weeks later

If a female Press Secretary under Trump handled it like Psaki did, we'd never have heard the fvckin end of it.

(In fairness, I read somewhere that the guy is battling an aggressive form of cancer, so who knows what meds etc he's on that caused him to lash out like he did)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 14, 2021, 01:32:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 13, 2021, 10:55:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 13, 2021, 10:06:12 PM
The Democrats need trump he's all they've got , their policies  are not popular with the masses so they need the threat of trump reappearing to help them win . Remember fear mongering , hatred of trump supporters   hallmarks of the fascist dems

There's nothing wrong with hating bigotry and ignorance.

And if Dem policies are so unpopular why is the right so reliant on conspiracy theories and lies?
hating 74m people is ok with you .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 11:10:27 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 14, 2021, 12:20:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 12, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/02/i-will-destroy-you-biden-aide-threatened-a-politico-reporter-pursuing-a-story-on-his-relationship/amp


Should be interesting to see how the NYT, WaPo and CNN handle this story

WOW
Made resign.

Must be strange for Americans see that people are actually accountable again who'd have thought?!
Tis funny how none of the Trumpbots here believe there should ever be accountability for Republicans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
The GOP rode the tiger. The tiger ate the GOP.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2021, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 14, 2021, 01:32:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 13, 2021, 10:55:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 13, 2021, 10:06:12 PM
The Democrats need trump he's all they've got , their policies  are not popular with the masses so they need the threat of trump reappearing to help them win . Remember fear mongering , hatred of trump supporters   hallmarks of the fascist dems

There's nothing wrong with hating bigotry and ignorance.

And if Dem policies are so unpopular why is the right so reliant on conspiracy theories and lies?
hating 74m people is ok with you .

I said bigotry and ignorance, which is what the GOP has cultivated and embraced and now represents.

And when it comes to hate, a poll just last week showed that a majority of Republicans view Democrats as "enemies " whereas a majority of Dems views Republicans as "political opponents ".

Not surprising when you look at right wing media and rhetoric.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/#app (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/#app)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on February 14, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2021, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 14, 2021, 01:32:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 13, 2021, 10:55:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 13, 2021, 10:06:12 PM
The Democrats need trump he's all they've got , their policies  are not popular with the masses so they need the threat of trump reappearing to help them win . Remember fear mongering , hatred of trump supporters   hallmarks of the fascist dems

There's nothing wrong with hating bigotry and ignorance.

And if Dem policies are so unpopular why is the right so reliant on conspiracy theories and lies?
hating 74m people is ok with you .

I said bigotry and ignorance, which is what the GOP has cultivated and embraced and now represents.

And when it comes to hate, a poll just last week showed that a majority of Republicans view Democrats as "enemies " whereas a majority of Dems views Republicans as "political opponents ".

Not surprising when you look at right wing media and rhetoric.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/#app (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/#app)

A CBS opinion poll, lets all believe that one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2021, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 14, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2021, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 14, 2021, 01:32:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 13, 2021, 10:55:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 13, 2021, 10:06:12 PM
The Democrats need trump he's all they've got , their policies  are not popular with the masses so they need the threat of trump reappearing to help them win . Remember fear mongering , hatred of trump supporters   hallmarks of the fascist dems

There's nothing wrong with hating bigotry and ignorance.

And if Dem policies are so unpopular why is the right so reliant on conspiracy theories and lies?
hating 74m people is ok with you .

I said bigotry and ignorance, which is what the GOP has cultivated and embraced and now represents.

And when it comes to hate, a poll just last week showed that a majority of Republicans view Democrats as "enemies " whereas a majority of Dems views Republicans as "political opponents ".

Not surprising when you look at right wing media and rhetoric.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/#app (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/#app)

A CBS opinion poll, lets all believe that one.

The results are consistent with reality, including the rhetoric and behaviour of the GOP up to yesterday.

And given your own track record for advocating for baseless conspiracy theories, you're probably not the go-to person here for assessing credibility. But go ahead and critique their methodology if you wish.

538 gives YouGov, the pollster used by CBS, a B rating. It's from last May, so that rating may have changed with the most recent election.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
J70

What would you say to Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's campaign staffers  if someone they helped bail out assaulted or murdered one of your family members?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:03:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2021, 12:04:09 PM


I said bigotry and ignorance, which is what the GOP has cultivated and embraced and now represents.

And when it comes to hate, a poll just last week showed that a majority of Republicans view Democrats as "enemies " whereas a majority of Dems views Republicans as "political opponents ".

Not surprising when you look at right wing media and rhetoric.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/#app (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/#app)
Anybody who doesn't see the Republican party as mortal enemies of humanity either isn't paying attention or hates humanity

That's just the bleedin' obvious and has been for many, many years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 15, 2021, 04:32:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
J70

What would you say to Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's campaign staffers  if someone they helped bail out assaulted or murdered one of your family members?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/

What would you say if a President agitated an insurrection and the Capitol was invaded and law enforcement officers were murdered?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2021, 12:14:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
J70

What would you say to Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's campaign staffers  if someone they helped bail out assaulted or murdered one of your family members?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/

There was widespread appeals across the board to help post bail for people arrested protesting. Far more than rioters were arrested back in the summer, especially here in NYC when the NYPD engaged in a draconian response that was way over what was appropriate for peaceful protests.

Regardless, how many people out of the total bailed out the Minnesota bail fund organization committed violent crimes while out on bail? Was it the majority, as the very fair-minded Federalist writer seems to imply?

Are YOU in favour of the bail system, where rich people can avoid remand for very serious crimes, whereas poor people end up stuck in a hell hole like Rikers Island for low level stuff because they can't post bail?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2021, 12:48:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 12:14:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
J70

What would you say to Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's campaign staffers  if someone they helped bail out assaulted or murdered one of your family members?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/

There was widespread appeals across the board to help post bail for people arrested protesting. Far more than rioters were arrested back in the summer, especially here in NYC when the NYPD engaged in a draconian response that was way over what was appropriate for peaceful protests.

Regardless, how many people out of the total bailed out the Minnesota bail fund organization committed violent crimes while out on bail? Was it the majority, as the very fair-minded Federalist writer seems to imply?

Are YOU in favour of the bail system, where rich people can avoid remand for very serious crimes, whereas poor people end up stuck in a hell hole like Rikers Island for low level stuff because they can't post bail?

I'm not in favor of the bail system, but you're not answering the question I asked.

Should Democratic politicians be fundraising for groups like these when they will have no control over who gets bailed?

Not everyone held in high bail is annoys out who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. They are being held on high bail for a damn good reason

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/08/12/mass-bail-fund-answers-criticism-over-freeing-convicted-rapist-accused-of-raping-again/amp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2021, 01:06:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2021, 12:48:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 12:14:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
J70

What would you say to Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's campaign staffers  if someone they helped bail out assaulted or murdered one of your family members?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/

There was widespread appeals across the board to help post bail for people arrested protesting. Far more than rioters were arrested back in the summer, especially here in NYC when the NYPD engaged in a draconian response that was way over what was appropriate for peaceful protests.

Regardless, how many people out of the total bailed out the Minnesota bail fund organization committed violent crimes while out on bail? Was it the majority, as the very fair-minded Federalist writer seems to imply?

Are YOU in favour of the bail system, where rich people can avoid remand for very serious crimes, whereas poor people end up stuck in a hell hole like Rikers Island for low level stuff because they can't post bail?

I'm not in favor of the bail system, but you're not answering the question I asked.

Should Democratic politicians be fundraising for groups like these when they will have no control over who gets bailed?

Not everyone held in high bail is annoys out who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. They are being held on high bail for a damn good reason

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/08/12/mass-bail-fund-answers-criticism-over-freeing-convicted-rapist-accused-of-raping-again/amp

1. If someone is a danger to the public, why are they eligible for bail in the first place? Bail amount should be based on risk of flight and how much it would take to make sure someone shows up for trial. It should be a given that to be eligible for bail, the suspect should not be a threat to anyone or anything.

2. Any politician (or any citizen) should look closely at any organization they're advocating or fund raising for, but I'm not sure what else can be expected if that organization subsequently changes its approach, beyond asking the person for their current position after the change. At the time of Harris's comments, from what I read, this MN crowd had a max cap of $1000 bail.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2021, 01:17:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 01:06:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2021, 12:48:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 12:14:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
J70

What would you say to Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's campaign staffers  if someone they helped bail out assaulted or murdered one of your family members?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/

There was widespread appeals across the board to help post bail for people arrested protesting. Far more than rioters were arrested back in the summer, especially here in NYC when the NYPD engaged in a draconian response that was way over what was appropriate for peaceful protests.

Regardless, how many people out of the total bailed out the Minnesota bail fund organization committed violent crimes while out on bail? Was it the majority, as the very fair-minded Federalist writer seems to imply?

Are YOU in favour of the bail system, where rich people can avoid remand for very serious crimes, whereas poor people end up stuck in a hell hole like Rikers Island for low level stuff because they can't post bail?

I'm not in favor of the bail system, but you're not answering the question I asked.

Should Democratic politicians be fundraising for groups like these when they will have no control over who gets bailed?

Not everyone held in high bail is annoys out who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. They are being held on high bail for a damn good reason

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/08/12/mass-bail-fund-answers-criticism-over-freeing-convicted-rapist-accused-of-raping-again/amp

1. If someone is a danger to the public, why are they eligible for bail in the first place? Bail amount should be based on risk of flight and how much it would take to make sure someone shows up for trial. It should be a given that to be eligible for bail, the suspect should not be a threat to anyone or anything.

2. Any politician (or any citizen) should look closely at any organization they're advocating or fund raising for, but I'm not sure what else can be expected if that organization subsequently changes its approach, beyond asking the person for their current position after the change. At the time of Harris's comments, from what I read, this MN crowd had a max cap of $1000 bail.


So you're still making excuses for them.....fair enough.

You just can't say they shouldn't have done it or that they displayed extremely bad judgement by doing it.

If a politician jumps on a bandwagon like this to score political points and pander to a certain constituency, they sure as hell should be held to account for the unintended consequences when it all goes wrong .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2021, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2021, 01:17:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 01:06:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2021, 12:48:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 12:14:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
J70

What would you say to Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's campaign staffers  if someone they helped bail out assaulted or murdered one of your family members?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/

There was widespread appeals across the board to help post bail for people arrested protesting. Far more than rioters were arrested back in the summer, especially here in NYC when the NYPD engaged in a draconian response that was way over what was appropriate for peaceful protests.

Regardless, how many people out of the total bailed out the Minnesota bail fund organization committed violent crimes while out on bail? Was it the majority, as the very fair-minded Federalist writer seems to imply?

Are YOU in favour of the bail system, where rich people can avoid remand for very serious crimes, whereas poor people end up stuck in a hell hole like Rikers Island for low level stuff because they can't post bail?

I'm not in favor of the bail system, but you're not answering the question I asked.

Should Democratic politicians be fundraising for groups like these when they will have no control over who gets bailed?

Not everyone held in high bail is annoys out who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. They are being held on high bail for a damn good reason

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/08/12/mass-bail-fund-answers-criticism-over-freeing-convicted-rapist-accused-of-raping-again/amp

1. If someone is a danger to the public, why are they eligible for bail in the first place? Bail amount should be based on risk of flight and how much it would take to make sure someone shows up for trial. It should be a given that to be eligible for bail, the suspect should not be a threat to anyone or anything.

2. Any politician (or any citizen) should look closely at any organization they're advocating or fund raising for, but I'm not sure what else can be expected if that organization subsequently changes its approach, beyond asking the person for their current position after the change. At the time of Harris's comments, from what I read, this MN crowd had a max cap of $1000 bail.


So you're still making excuses for them.....fair enough.

You just can't say they shouldn't have done it or that they displayed extremely bad judgement by doing it.

If a politician jumps on a bandwagon like this to score political points and pander to a certain constituency, they sure as hell should be held to account for the unintended consequences when it all goes wrong .

I see nothing wrong with them having done it.

I also see nothing wrong with questioning them to see if they approve of changes in policy on the part of the organization after the fact.

No excuses there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
Was it a written policy that changed or did they just expand their mandate once they became flush with cash?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2021, 03:36:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
Was it a written policy that changed or did they just expand their mandate once they became flush with cash?

It was their policy. No idea if it was written. I'm sure cash flow was a limiting factor, imposing restrictions early on, in an organization started by students.

And yes, the change coincided with the cash influx.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2021, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 03:36:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
Was it a written policy that changed or did they just expand their mandate once they became flush with cash?

It was their policy. No idea if it was written. I'm sure cash flow was a limiting factor, imposing restrictions early on, in an organization started by students.

And yes, the change coincided with the cash influx.

So that's the issue with these smaller entities without proper governance, oversight and or written policies.

At work, we are prohibited from sponsoring any type of charitable event for that exact reason. $100 sponsorship of a sign at a golf outing could land you in the front page of the WSJ

I still think it was a display of extremely bad judgement on their end and I feel that if it was Republicans who did this, the media would have gone to town on them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Just as a side note Minneapolis are spending 6.5m on drive to recruit more police officers.
You couldn't make it up , the insanity of theses fools .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2021, 04:44:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Just as a side note Minneapolis are spending 6.5m on drive to recruit more police officers.
You couldn't make it up , the insanity of theses fools .

What's the insanity part?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 04:44:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Just as a side note Minneapolis are spending 6.5m on drive to recruit more police officers.
You couldn't make it up , the insanity of theses fools .

What's the insanity part?
try to burn down police buildings with people inside 
March for months to disband and defund the police
Wonder why 200 officers quit or go on medical leave
Don't prosecute rioters and looters
That's a start and as usual the people the leaders of the city are trying to appease are the ones getting hurt and robbed and murdered, sometimes you need to protect people from themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2021, 05:31:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 04:44:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Just as a side note Minneapolis are spending 6.5m on drive to recruit more police officers.
You couldn't make it up , the insanity of theses fools .

What's the insanity part?
try to burn down police buildings with people inside 
March for months to disband and defund the police
Wonder why 200 officers quit or go on medical leave
Don't prosecute rioters and looters
That's a start and as usual the people the leaders of the city are trying to appease are the ones getting hurt and robbed and murdered, sometimes you need to protect people from themselves.

There were protests, sometimes violent, about police brutality and lack of accountability in the aftermath of another appalling homicide at their hands.

200 police quit or went on leave. I'm sure some were seriously stressed by the added pressures. I'm sure some were close to retirement and said "f**k it". I'm sure some quit in disgust due to the conduct of their colleagues. I'm sure some quit because they no longer felt they could act with impunity.

The city needs to replace them. The city government is spending millions to try to get suitable replacements, hopefully not including Derek Chauvin-types.

And according to this story, dozens are facing prosecution for arson and looting. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/12/10/twin-cities-man-first-to-be-sentenced-for-arson-from-may-unrest (https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/12/10/twin-cities-man-first-to-be-sentenced-for-arson-from-may-unrest)

I'm not seeing the insanity connection.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 09:16:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 05:31:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 04:44:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Just as a side note Minneapolis are spending 6.5m on drive to recruit more police officers.
You couldn't make it up , the insanity of theses fools .

What's the insanity part?
try to burn down police buildings with people inside 
March for months to disband and defund the police
Wonder why 200 officers quit or go on medical leave
Don't prosecute rioters and looters
That's a start and as usual the people the leaders of the city are trying to appease are the ones getting hurt and robbed and murdered, sometimes you need to protect people from themselves.

There were protests, sometimes violent, about police brutality and lack of accountability in the aftermath of another appalling homicide at their hands.

200 police quit or went on leave. I'm sure some were seriously stressed by the added pressures. I'm sure some were close to retirement and said "f**k it". I'm sure some quit in disgust due to the conduct of their colleagues. I'm sure some quit because they no longer felt they could act with impunity.

The city needs to replace them. The city government is spending millions to try to get suitable replacements, hopefully not including Derek Chauvin-types.

And according to this story, dozens are facing prosecution for arson and looting. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/12/10/twin-cities-man-first-to-be-sentenced-for-arson-from-may-unrest (https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/12/10/twin-cities-man-first-to-be-sentenced-for-arson-from-may-unrest)

I'm not seeing the insanity connection.
well then I can't help you .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2021, 09:59:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 09:16:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 05:31:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2021, 04:44:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Just as a side note Minneapolis are spending 6.5m on drive to recruit more police officers.
You couldn't make it up , the insanity of theses fools .

What's the insanity part?
try to burn down police buildings with people inside 
March for months to disband and defund the police
Wonder why 200 officers quit or go on medical leave
Don't prosecute rioters and looters
That's a start and as usual the people the leaders of the city are trying to appease are the ones getting hurt and robbed and murdered, sometimes you need to protect people from themselves.

There were protests, sometimes violent, about police brutality and lack of accountability in the aftermath of another appalling homicide at their hands.

200 police quit or went on leave. I'm sure some were seriously stressed by the added pressures. I'm sure some were close to retirement and said "f**k it". I'm sure some quit in disgust due to the conduct of their colleagues. I'm sure some quit because they no longer felt they could act with impunity.

The city needs to replace them. The city government is spending millions to try to get suitable replacements, hopefully not including Derek Chauvin-types.

And according to this story, dozens are facing prosecution for arson and looting. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/12/10/twin-cities-man-first-to-be-sentenced-for-arson-from-may-unrest (https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/12/10/twin-cities-man-first-to-be-sentenced-for-arson-from-may-unrest)

I'm not seeing the insanity connection.
well then I can't help you .

The cops weren't fired or laid off. They quit or went on leave. The city didn't force them out, nor did they "abolish" the police, but now they're stuck with an understaffed police force. So they're hiring a large number of replacements.

What am I missing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 16, 2021, 02:40:24 PM
J70 will you be joining in in the new performance street art the mayor is  starting with his open culture initiative ? You guys are blessed with him and cuomo .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 16, 2021, 02:40:24 PM
J70 will you be joining in in the new performance street art the mayor is  starting with his open culture initiative ? You guys are blessed with him and cuomo .

Never heard of it.

Let me guess - its all over Fox News.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2021, 06:23:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 16, 2021, 02:40:24 PM
J70 will you be joining in in the new performance street art the mayor is  starting with his open culture initiative ? You guys are blessed with him and cuomo .

Never heard of it.

Let me guess - its all over Fox News.

Conservatives get outraged about the weirdest sh1t.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 17, 2021, 01:01:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2021, 06:23:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 16, 2021, 02:40:24 PM
J70 will you be joining in in the new performance street art the mayor is  starting with his open culture initiative ? You guys are blessed with him and cuomo .

Never heard of it.

Let me guess - its all over Fox News.

Conservatives get outraged about the weirdest sh1t.

I looked it up, and I actually had seen this story in passing last week, but it seemed so inconsequential and harmless to me that I moved on and forgot about it straight away.

I guess I must be missing something.

https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/ny-to-host-pop-up-shows-to-boost-arts-industry-amid-covid/ (https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/ny-to-host-pop-up-shows-to-boost-arts-industry-amid-covid/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
softball after softball did anyone ask
Why is he not taking the calls with Trudeau and macron letting Harris do it instead
Why is he releasing illegal immigrants into the country who are not tested for the virus.
Why is he signing executive orders like a king .
Why is he in bed at 9pm ( know the answer)
Why is he burning an open fire if he's so worried about climate change .
Why can't he get the vaccine out more quickly.
Judging by what's happening in Texas and happens every year in California how can we go completely green without storage capacity or diversity of sources.
I'm sure he said a few here's the deal and you went to bed happy ,enjoy .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on February 17, 2021, 04:11:01 PM
Your disgusting useless ****** of a candidate lost.
Get over it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 17, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
softball after softball did anyone ask
Why is he not taking the calls with Trudeau and macron letting Harris do it instead
Why is he releasing illegal immigrants into the country who are not tested for the virus.
Why is he signing executive orders like a king .
Why is he in bed at 9pm ( know the answer)
Why is he burning an open fire if he's so worried about climate change .
Why can't he get the vaccine out more quickly.
Judging by what's happening in Texas and happens every year in California how can we go completely green without storage capacity or diversity of sources.
I'm sure he said a few here's the deal and you went to bed happy ,enjoy .

You need to get those Murdoch media worms out of your head. I highly recommend a good tr**p up the PG&E trail at Rancho San Antonio. You will get a constant reminder about the inadequacy of Energy companies but be compensated by some Great Views of Silicon Valley and The Bay
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 04:35:32 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
softball after softball did anyone ask
Why is he not taking the calls with Trudeau and macron letting Harris do it instead
Why is he releasing illegal immigrants into the country who are not tested for the virus.
Why is he signing executive orders like a king .
Why is he in bed at 9pm ( know the answer)
Why is he burning an open fire if he's so worried about climate change .
Why can't he get the vaccine out more quickly.
Judging by what's happening in Texas and happens every year in California how can we go completely green without storage capacity or diversity of sources.
I'm sure he said a few here's the deal and you went to bed happy ,enjoy .

You need to get those Murdoch media worms out of your head. I highly recommend a good tr**p up the PG&E trail at Rancho San Antonio. You will get a constant reminder about the inadequacy of Energy companies but be compensated by some Great Views of Silicon Valley and The Bay
his state media will cover for him as long as they can as for hikes it's 8-30'and Gavin needs his taxes so back to work .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 17, 2021, 04:35:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
softball after softball did anyone ask
Why is he not taking the calls with Trudeau and macron letting Harris do it instead
Why is he releasing illegal immigrants into the country who are not tested for the virus.
Why is he signing executive orders like a king .
Why is he in bed at 9pm ( know the answer)
Why is he burning an open fire if he's so worried about climate change .
Why can't he get the vaccine out more quickly.
Judging by what's happening in Texas and happens every year in California how can we go completely green without storage capacity or diversity of sources.
I'm sure he said a few here's the deal and you went to bed happy ,enjoy .


Readout of President Joe Biden Call with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/01/22/readout-of-president-joe-biden-call-with-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-of-canada/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 04:39:15 PM
Quote from: dec on February 17, 2021, 04:35:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
softball after softball did anyone ask
Why is he not taking the calls with Trudeau and macron letting Harris do it instead
Why is he releasing illegal immigrants into the country who are not tested for the virus.
Why is he signing executive orders like a king .
Why is he in bed at 9pm ( know the answer)
Why is he burning an open fire if he's so worried about climate change .
Why can't he get the vaccine out more quickly.
Judging by what's happening in Texas and happens every year in California how can we go completely green without storage capacity or diversity of sources.
I'm sure he said a few here's the deal and you went to bed happy ,enjoy .


Readout of President Joe Biden Call with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/01/22/readout-of-president-joe-biden-call-with-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-of-canada/
any transcript from feb 2 call ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 17, 2021, 04:43:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 04:39:15 PM
Quote from: dec on February 17, 2021, 04:35:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
softball after softball did anyone ask
Why is he not taking the calls with Trudeau and macron letting Harris do it instead
Why is he releasing illegal immigrants into the country who are not tested for the virus.
Why is he signing executive orders like a king .
Why is he in bed at 9pm ( know the answer)
Why is he burning an open fire if he's so worried about climate change .
Why can't he get the vaccine out more quickly.
Judging by what's happening in Texas and happens every year in California how can we go completely green without storage capacity or diversity of sources.
I'm sure he said a few here's the deal and you went to bed happy ,enjoy .


Readout of President Joe Biden Call with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/01/22/readout-of-president-joe-biden-call-with-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-of-canada/
any transcript from feb 2 call ?

https://ca.usembassy.gov/readout-of-vice-president-kamala-harris-call-with-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-of-canada/

Readout of Vice President Kamala Harris Call with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 04:47:27 PM
Quote from: dec on February 17, 2021, 04:43:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 04:39:15 PM
Quote from: dec on February 17, 2021, 04:35:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
softball after softball did anyone ask
Why is he not taking the calls with Trudeau and macron letting Harris do it instead
Why is he releasing illegal immigrants into the country who are not tested for the virus.
Why is he signing executive orders like a king .
Why is he in bed at 9pm ( know the answer)
Why is he burning an open fire if he's so worried about climate change .
Why can't he get the vaccine out more quickly.
Judging by what's happening in Texas and happens every year in California how can we go completely green without storage capacity or diversity of sources.
I'm sure he said a few here's the deal and you went to bed happy ,enjoy .


Readout of President Joe Biden Call with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/01/22/readout-of-president-joe-biden-call-with-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-of-canada/
any transcript from feb 2 call ?

https://ca.usembassy.gov/readout-of-vice-president-kamala-harris-call-with-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-of-canada/

Readout of Vice President Kamala Harris Call with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada
is joe not up to taking these calls ?
Or is he as most suspected a figure head
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 17, 2021, 04:58:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 04:47:27 PM
Quote from: dec on February 17, 2021, 04:43:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 04:39:15 PM
Quote from: dec on February 17, 2021, 04:35:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
softball after softball did anyone ask
Why is he not taking the calls with Trudeau and macron letting Harris do it instead
Why is he releasing illegal immigrants into the country who are not tested for the virus.
Why is he signing executive orders like a king .
Why is he in bed at 9pm ( know the answer)
Why is he burning an open fire if he's so worried about climate change .
Why can't he get the vaccine out more quickly.
Judging by what's happening in Texas and happens every year in California how can we go completely green without storage capacity or diversity of sources.
I'm sure he said a few here's the deal and you went to bed happy ,enjoy .


Readout of President Joe Biden Call with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/01/22/readout-of-president-joe-biden-call-with-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-of-canada/
any transcript from feb 2 call ?

https://ca.usembassy.gov/readout-of-vice-president-kamala-harris-call-with-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-of-canada/

Readout of Vice President Kamala Harris Call with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada
is joe not up to taking these calls ?
Or is he as most suspected a figure head

Did you miss the readout of the call between Biden and Trudeau, I included the link above?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Louther on February 17, 2021, 05:01:48 PM
Did Joe really use his magic snow globe to hit Texas hard with snow and freezing temperatures?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 05:06:55 PM
Great to see everyone running to IRISH joe Biden's defense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 17, 2021, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 04:35:32 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on February 17, 2021, 02:49:12 AM
Just watching President Biden's town hall. What a huge upgrade on the "former guy". He was Empathetic and knowledgeable. He answered the questions competently relying on science and fact based truth to support his positions. What a refreshing change from the "former guy". Not bad for a "sleepy" old dude.
softball after softball did anyone ask
Why is he not taking the calls with Trudeau and macron letting Harris do it instead
Why is he releasing illegal immigrants into the country who are not tested for the virus.
Why is he signing executive orders like a king .
Why is he in bed at 9pm ( know the answer)
Why is he burning an open fire if he's so worried about climate change .
Why can't he get the vaccine out more quickly.
Judging by what's happening in Texas and happens every year in California how can we go completely green without storage capacity or diversity of sources.
I'm sure he said a few here's the deal and you went to bed happy ,enjoy .

You need to get those Murdoch media worms out of your head. I highly recommend a good tr**p up the PG&E trail at Rancho San Antonio. You will get a constant reminder about the inadequacy of Energy companies but be compensated by some Great Views of Silicon Valley and The Bay
his state media will cover for him as long as they can as for hikes it's 8-30'and Gavin needs his taxes so back to work .

Serious bit of projection there. You really need to take a half day for yourself. Gavin can forego the taxes for a half day😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2021, 01:04:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 17, 2021, 05:06:55 PM
Great to see everyone running to IRISH joe Biden's defense

While you're reduced to outrage about the fact that he goes to bed at 9pm.

It's something, I guess! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 18, 2021, 05:00:55 AM
Burn in hell

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/152048762_10158792192325519_5336943743915113625_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=EiNZR6-NAYEAX--Qs_N&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=eb73ea74445ae4b1b5f643150d4d6809&oe=60555C22)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 18, 2021, 05:04:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 17, 2021, 01:01:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2021, 06:23:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 16, 2021, 02:40:24 PM
J70 will you be joining in in the new performance street art the mayor is  starting with his open culture initiative ? You guys are blessed with him and cuomo .

Never heard of it.

Let me guess - its all over Fox News.

Conservatives get outraged about the weirdest sh1t.

I looked it up, and I actually had seen this story in passing last week, but it seemed so inconsequential and harmless to me that I moved on and forgot about it straight away.

I guess I must be missing something.

https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/ny-to-host-pop-up-shows-to-boost-arts-industry-amid-covid/ (https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/ny-to-host-pop-up-shows-to-boost-arts-industry-amid-covid/)

What exactly is the scandal here? Is there anyone not on my ignore list who speaks Conservatese who can tell me what the outrage is about?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on February 18, 2021, 09:19:54 AM
What's the story with the Texas power outages?

Is there not a sort of "national grid" in the US or is it state by state?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2021, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 18, 2021, 09:19:54 AM
What's the story with the Texas power outages?

Is there not a sort of "national grid" in the US or is it state by state?

The story is NOT the green new deal and AOC, as the Texas governor and Fox News would have you believe. Wind turbines work perfectly well in cold conditions... when they're set up to do so. As does all the other power production equipment such as pipelines and pumps that failed.

But when everything is deregulated and all that matters is the bottom line and you rarely get extreme cold snaps so you don't plan for them, the shit hits the fan when you're not prepared.

And given the reality of climate change, Texas and everywhere else had better get prepared.

On the grid issue, I read somewhere that Texas has the means of production and enough consumption to allow them to be self-sufficient without needing to sell off excess power or bring in extra, so they're not hooked in to the outside, for the most part.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2021, 10:46:52 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 18, 2021, 05:00:55 AM
Burn in hell

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/152048762_10158792192325519_5336943743915113625_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=EiNZR6-NAYEAX--Qs_N&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=eb73ea74445ae4b1b5f643150d4d6809&oe=60555C22)

Unfortunately, the damage he helped do will long outlive him. The unhinged, alternate right wing reality he was so instrumental in creating is not going anywhere.

FFS, only two months ago he was helping drive the "Release the Kraken" voter-fraud fraud, because, according to him, there was no way Sidney Powell and Giuliani would be making all these wild claims without actual, er, evidence (that turned out well). More recently, he was still using the stolen election fantasy to defend the Capitol rioters and comparing them to Revolutionary War figures.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 18, 2021, 02:34:34 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 18, 2021, 09:19:54 AM
What's the story with the Texas power outages?

Is there not a sort of "national grid" in the US or is it state by state?

There are 2 major grids, Western and Eastern Interconnection, but Texas has it's own grid. El Paso in the very west of Texas is part of the Western Interconnection and has kept the power on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 18, 2021, 07:42:57 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 18, 2021, 09:19:54 AM
What's the story with the Texas power outages?

Is there not a sort of "national grid" in the US or is it state by state?

Texas deregulated and took away all incentives to put in preventive measures for this sort of thing. They actually had backups in place but they removed them to save money. Winterizing equipment is required in all states except for Texas. Renewables account for less than 20% of electricity generation in the state, so this is a failure of conventional power plants.

I'd refer you to Ted Cruz but he's away to Cancun on holiday.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 18, 2021, 07:43:14 PM
By the way:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151775036_10159410642934287_8627965755657367762_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=jlxLgiUWA8gAX-LvGA1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=780f3f7f3fd4b84d5bd5bab91cf9a586&oe=6053C3B7)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 18, 2021, 10:14:11 PM
Texas is full of oil and natural gas why are they relying on wind ? Jr Ewing will be turning in his grave .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2021, 11:07:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 18, 2021, 10:14:11 PM
Texas is full of oil and natural gas why are they relying on wind ? Jr Ewing will be turning in his grave .

They're not relying on wind.

It's 7% of their power production.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 18, 2021, 11:48:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 18, 2021, 10:14:11 PM
Texas is full of oil and natural gas why are they relying on wind ? Jr Ewing will be turning in his grave .
jesus wept :D
some people willingly consume crap, regurgitate it and eat it again and repeat (ad nauseaum)
How about trying a filter, call it the base level Fox filter, specially designed  for the average IQ of a Fox  news consumer. One just says to oneself,  hmm maybe this time Fox is trying to peddle a porky, maybe just for a lark, for the first time in my life  I'll do a web search and see if this Fox news claim passes muster. Albeit I truely believe everything other than Fox is fake news  but just this one time I will take a peek, dip a toe in the pool etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 12:03:43 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 18, 2021, 11:48:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 18, 2021, 10:14:11 PM
Texas is full of oil and natural gas why are they relying on wind ? Jr Ewing will be turning in his grave .
jesus wept :D
some people willingly consume crap, regurgitate it and eat it again and repeat (ad nauseaum)
How about trying a filter, call it the base level Fox filter, specially designed  for the average IQ of a Fox  news consumer. One just says to oneself,  hmm maybe this time Fox is trying to peddle a porky, maybe just for a lark, for the first time in my life  I'll do a web search and see if this Fox news claim passes muster. Albeit I truely believe everything other than Fox is fake news  but just this one time I will take a peek, dip a toe in the pool etc.
Fox News blah blah your so far up your hole you can't tell serious post from a satirical one
J70 the same I'd say ye boys be some Laugh on a night out .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 19, 2021, 12:06:45 AM
I was talking to someone today who has lived in TX for 10 years

According to her, the problem is that the grid in Texas was not built to withstand a once in 100 year Ice Storm. They took shortcuts and got caught out

She also claimed that when they have just regular freezing rain, the wind turbines stop working because they become too heavy to turn.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 19, 2021, 02:33:19 AM
It must be true that the Texas Energy Grid is all frigged up. You now you have it from the horse's mouth. The gospel according to a Whitey anecdote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on February 19, 2021, 09:47:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 19, 2021, 12:06:45 AM
I was talking to someone today who has lived in TX for 10 years

According to her, the problem is that the grid in Texas was not built to withstand a once in 100 year Ice Storm. They took shortcuts and got caught out

She also claimed that when they have just regular freezing rain, the wind turbines stop working because they become too heavy to turn.

Weather extremes are getting more common due to climate change.

Also read that Texans didn't put in turbines suitable to cold climates. Turbines are all over Northern Europe and work fine.

pay bottom dollar and you get shíte.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 19, 2021, 10:52:52 AM
It's AOC's fault for the Green New Deal!

Even though Texas is Republican and the Green New Deal hasn't been enacted yet.

She must love living rent free in conservatives heads drinking up their tears it really is quite funny!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:17:21 PM
While Cruz was blaming his children for him scarpering off to Mexico, AOC was raising over a million dollars for people in need in Texas

Fairly obvious who cares about ordinary people and who doesn't give a fook, isn't it

https://truthout.org/articles/aoc-raised-1-million-for-struggling-texans-as-cruz-handled-post-cancun-pr-mess/?fbclid=IwAR2bUOLJn-KcMprD3qqo6mFkD7KP-GRZDl1VxNKAN2oF8giDrERh8ki6vS4
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 19, 2021, 05:50:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 19, 2021, 10:52:52 AM
It's AOC's fault for the Green New Deal!

Even though Texas is Republican and the Green New Deal hasn't been enacted yet.

She must love living rent free in conservatives heads drinking up their tears it really is quite funny!!

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151608461_1338191236559545_1329855030609863836_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=o0Dg2o_ybRkAX-KyeFz&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=23a88b6fa63de1d155cefd8bbd4f2634&oe=60564CF6)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 21, 2021, 11:38:50 PM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/96198bb0425c2288a84200303341f870/2583d16919ee0f01-81/s500x750/3b8d5f4f9ef4d9a96f1ebad2b64bc5548a5d0602.gifv)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on February 22, 2021, 12:35:46 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 18, 2021, 09:19:54 AM
What's the story with the Texas power outages?

Is there not a sort of "national grid" in the US or is it state by state?

It is a few blocks. Recall the North-East blackout of a few years back.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/NERC-map-en.svg)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2021, 02:21:08 PM
This might belong in the WTF thread as well, but there are accounts going around of Texans being charged thousands of dollars for routine days-worth of electricity amidst last weeks power cuts.

Apparently Texas has a race-to-the-bottom, ultra-capitalist electricity supply system, with hundreds of companies getting in on the act.

One of the options is that you can buy at variable rates, just like a mortgage. Which works fine if wholesale prices are low.

However, when the wholesale prices go through the roof, as happened last week when the supply dried up, those on the variable rate plan are screwed as the costs are passed on directly.

The guy in the headline ended up paying 16 grand!

And of course now the Republican Texas government is demanding answers to how their free-market, regulation-free, dreamland ended up biting so many of their constituents in the arse!

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 22, 2021, 03:17:02 PM
QuoteReuters: U.S. SUPREME COURT PAVES WAY FOR TRUMP'S FINANCIAL RECORDS TO BE DISCLOSED TO NEW YORK GRAND JURY BY REFUSING TO BLOCK LOWER COURT RULING

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/128UMaujdjX7Pi/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 22, 2021, 08:29:49 PM
In a survey by Suffolk Univ. of 1,000 republicans who voted for Trump in the 2020 election, some 58% of them regard the mob invasion of Capital Hill as "mostly an antifa-inspired attack that only involved a few Trump supporters."  ;D

It works,   Make Reality Go Away!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 22, 2021, 08:57:37 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 22, 2021, 03:17:02 PM
QuoteReuters: U.S. SUPREME COURT PAVES WAY FOR TRUMP'S FINANCIAL RECORDS TO BE DISCLOSED TO NEW YORK GRAND JURY BY REFUSING TO BLOCK LOWER COURT RULING

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/128UMaujdjX7Pi/giphy.gif)
like I said a few weeks ago the Democrats have nothing if they don't have trump .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 22, 2021, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 22, 2021, 08:57:37 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 22, 2021, 03:17:02 PM
QuoteReuters: U.S. SUPREME COURT PAVES WAY FOR TRUMP'S FINANCIAL RECORDS TO BE DISCLOSED TO NEW YORK GRAND JURY BY REFUSING TO BLOCK LOWER COURT RULING

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/128UMaujdjX7Pi/giphy.gif)
like I said a few weeks ago the Democrats have nothing if they don't have trump .

Opposing everything Trump stands for, both personally and politically, is a thoroughly worthwhile agenda, encompassing a broad range of issues.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 11:45:54 PM
AOC has now raised over 5 million dollars for Texas people in need

The sooner the woke left are in charge everywhere, the better

They actually care about people

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 12:09:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 11:45:54 PM
AOC has now raised over 5 million dollars for Texas people in need

The sooner the woke left are in charge everywhere, the better

They actually care about people
give me a fish feed me for one day
Teach me how to fish feed me for life
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2021, 10:27:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 12:09:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 11:45:54 PM
AOC has now raised over 5 million dollars for Texas people in need

The sooner the woke left are in charge everywhere, the better

They actually care about people
give me a fish feed me for one day
Teach me how to fish feed me for life

Is Texas not the GOP nirvana?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:39:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 12:09:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 11:45:54 PM
AOC has now raised over 5 million dollars for Texas people in need

The sooner the woke left are in charge everywhere, the better

They actually care about people
give me a fish feed me for one day
Teach me how to fish feed me for life
Vacuous pound shop Tony Robbins style memes sort of sums up where right wing politics is at intellectually, doesn't it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
AOC is one hell of a politician....I'll give her that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2021, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
AOC is one hell of a politician....I'll give her that

Schumer is up in 2022, Gillibrand in 2024.

Would she primary the standing Senate Majority Leader?

Although, unlike Joe Crowley, he is probably seriously watching his arse. Even if you seriously disagree with him politically, you cannot say that Schumer neglects his constituents and doesn't get out there all across the state.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2021, 02:06:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
AOC is one hell of a politician....I'll give her that

Schumer is up in 2022, Gillibrand in 2024.

Would she primary the standing Senate Majority Leader?

Although, unlike Joe Crowley, he is probably seriously watching his arse. Even if you seriously disagree with him politically, you cannot say that Schumer neglects his constituents and doesn't get out there all across the state.

Primaries are all about turnout

I'd say she'd wipe the floor with him if she ran.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2021, 04:45:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
AOC is one hell of a politician....I'll give her that

Schumer is up in 2022, Gillibrand in 2024.

Would she primary the standing Senate Majority Leader?

Although, unlike Joe Crowley, he is probably seriously watching his arse. Even if you seriously disagree with him politically, you cannot say that Schumer neglects his constituents and doesn't get out there all across the state.

I wouldn't put it past her. For a congresswoman she has one hell of a national profile, and this Texas business is a great little demonstration of her fundraising firepower.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 11:03:55 PM
Yeah...coincidence...

(https://images.dailykos.com/images/921565/large/OdalStage.jpg?1614370540)

QuoteThe photo above is the stage at CPAC. It was pointed out on Twitter here.

It's patterned to be almost identical to the Odal Rune, a rune used by the Nazi SS in it's core iconography. This rune has been used by Neo Nazi and white supremacist organizations for decades.

We have to recognize, and really grapple with the fact that Conservatism is Nazism. This stage is no accident. The design is intentional, as is all professional design.

The noose on the capital lawn, put there by neo Nazi insurrectionists, was no idle threat. The Republican party is the political wing for this fascist, murderous movement. This stage is saying loud and clear to Neo Nazis and other such monsters that Conservatism is theirs, now.

Any Republican official participating in CPAC is collaborating with this modern Nazi movement. Any Republican official attending the event is complicit, and should be considered dangerous to any non-white non-Christian non-Hetero person.

This isn't new information, but it's never been so brazen. There are countless pictures of Republican officials like Lindsay Graham and others flashing white-power hand signs alongside violent fascists like the Proud Boys and others. The Oathkeepers are an armed, trained, and well-connected militant wing of this Nazi movement.

The stakes of keeping this party out of power could not be higher. This stage says it all — they are not going to stop with destroying democracy. That symbol is a symbol of genocide, a symbol of mass murder on a scale directly understood by a diminishing few.

People need to begin preparations for what's to come should we lose congress in 2022, and keeping both houses in Congress has never been more important in the entire history of our country. The Republican Party and Conservatism in the US has gone full Nazi. There can no longer be any doubt.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 27, 2021, 12:45:28 AM
Sweet Jesus, the conservatives not even being discreet about it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odal_(rune)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 27, 2021, 01:56:32 AM
Let's see how the good Christians at CPAC cope with their Golden calf moment
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-cpac-golden-calf-trump-statue-is-spurring-backlash-of-biblical-proportions-11614360507
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 28, 2021, 09:53:13 PM
Trump speaking to CPAC right now, first speech since he was Prez.
He hasn't got to the point yet but he's talking as if he's gonna run again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on February 28, 2021, 09:56:05 PM
Of course he is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 28, 2021, 09:57:30 PM
It's very reminiscent of Fr Teds golden cleric speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 28, 2021, 11:03:10 PM
Ranting about the election being stolen and the sheep lapping it up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 11:19:26 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 28, 2021, 09:57:30 PM
It's very reminiscent of Fr Teds golden cleric speech.
But Father Ted actually won something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2021, 06:32:49 AM
CPAC straw poll: If the 2024 Republican primary for President were held in your state today—which candidate would you vote for?
Donald Trump 55%
Ron DeSantis 21%
Nikki Haley 3%
Mike Pompeo 2%
Ted Cruz 2%
Josh Hawley 1%
Marco Rubio 1%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2021, 12:07:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2021, 06:32:49 AM
CPAC straw poll: If the 2024 Republican primary for President were held in your state today—which candidate would you vote for?
Donald Trump 55%
Ron DeSantis 21%
Nikki Haley 3%
Mike Pompeo 2%
Ted Cruz 2%
Josh Hawley 1%
Marco Rubio 1%

Thus confirming the continuing existence of the Trump Personality Cult/Paranoid Conspiracy Theory White Grievance Party in the husk of what used to be the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 12:16:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2021, 06:32:49 AM
CPAC straw poll: If the 2024 Republican primary for President were held in your state today—which candidate would you vote for?
Donald Trump 55%
Ron DeSantis 21%
Nikki Haley 3%
Mike Pompeo 2%
Ted Cruz 2%
Josh Hawley 1%
Marco Rubio 1%
Q 75%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on March 01, 2021, 06:16:28 PM
Kristi Noem all the way. One of the few sensible Governors over the past year. No RINO here.  Laughable when some fake talk show host asked Slomo to give her advice back in April. It should have been the other way round. He would not be in the mess he is in now and NY would be booming. If that monster's political career is not over then there is no justice.  Take his father's name off the bridge also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2021, 07:07:12 PM
Because clearly what "works" in sparsely populated South Dakota should work everywhere, including NYC with more than ten times the population of SD squeezed into the five boroughs (never mind the suburbs). Especially if you're not an immigrant working cheek-to-jowl in a SD meat processing plant.

And never mind that the total cases, proportionately, are way higher in SD than in NY. Only part of NY anywhere near the rates all over SD are around the city.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/new-york (https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/new-york)
https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/south-dakota (https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/south-dakota)

Cuomo will get his comeuppance, not for the initial decisions on the nursing homes, which are defensible to some extent, but for twisting the numbers and trying to hide them, and, currently, whatever comes of the sexual harrassment allegations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on March 04, 2021, 05:49:51 PM
Fantastic to see Texas opening up and ending the insanity. Unfortunately they will be targeted by increasing the cycles of the worthless RT-PCR test. The "expert" of the "experts" Czar Fraudi has sent out warning utterances already.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2021, 07:07:34 PM
Another one for the ignore list.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on March 04, 2021, 09:08:51 PM
Cancel Power rocks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:16:09 PM
f**king hell, even the PCR test is a conspiracy. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?

Next January I'd expect.

Like every newly inaugurated president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 04, 2021, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?

Next January I'd expect.

Like every newly inaugurated president.

Exactly, Trump in 2017 and Obama in 2009 did not give State of the Union addresses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2021, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?

Next January I'd expect.

Like every newly inaugurated president.

Exactly, Trump in 2017 and Obama in 2009 did not give State of the Union addresses.
ok will he speak before a joint session of congress anytime soon ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2021, 01:40:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2021, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?

Next January I'd expect.

Like every newly inaugurated president.

Exactly, Trump in 2017 and Obama in 2009 did not give State of the Union addresses.
ok will he speak before a joint session of congress anytime soon ?

Haven't heard of any plans to do so.

Maybe when everyone is vaccinated or something.

Why?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 02:12:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 01:40:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2021, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?

Next January I'd expect.

Like every newly inaugurated president.

Exactly, Trump in 2017 and Obama in 2009 did not give State of the Union addresses.
ok will he speak before a joint session of congress anytime soon ?

Haven't heard of any plans to do so.

Maybe when everyone is vaccinated or something.

Why?
serious question do you think joe Biden has any cognitive problems .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 05, 2021, 07:06:06 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157400968_10221154784472500_4778988309280589196_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=vktbg1jxMYMAX-O3ikI&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=331d942a3ee1e6f39d33753dfd81cc87&oe=60658178)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2021, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 02:12:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 01:40:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2021, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?

Next January I'd expect.

Like every newly inaugurated president.

Exactly, Trump in 2017 and Obama in 2009 did not give State of the Union addresses.
ok will he speak before a joint session of congress anytime soon ?

Haven't heard of any plans to do so.

Maybe when everyone is vaccinated or something.

Why?
serious question do you think joe Biden has any cognitive problems .

No.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 04:11:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 02:12:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 01:40:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2021, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?

Next January I'd expect.

Like every newly inaugurated president.

Exactly, Trump in 2017 and Obama in 2009 did not give State of the Union addresses.
ok will he speak before a joint session of congress anytime soon ?

Haven't heard of any plans to do so.

Maybe when everyone is vaccinated or something.

Why?
serious question do you think joe Biden has any cognitive problems .

No.
hit me up if you make it to Bay Area someday I've a nice bridge I want to sell you .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 04:11:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 02:12:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 01:40:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2021, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?

Next January I'd expect.

Like every newly inaugurated president.

Exactly, Trump in 2017 and Obama in 2009 did not give State of the Union addresses.
ok will he speak before a joint session of congress anytime soon ?

Haven't heard of any plans to do so.

Maybe when everyone is vaccinated or something.

Why?
serious question do you think joe Biden has any cognitive problems .

No.
hit me up if you make it to Bay Area someday I've a nice bridge I want to sell you .

You've been beating that drum for months, parroting Trump.

Biden was basically going to be a drooling zombie at the debates and in all other appearances.

It didn't happen. And all of the ridicule and fear mongering didn't work.

You even threw out the (oh my god!!) comment here a couple of weeks ago that Biden went to bed at (gasp) 9pm! I go to f**king bed around then myself. I have to. I'm in work by 7.

And guess what? Biden has never been an eloquent speaker or unscripted explainer. He's no Bill Clinton or Barak Obama. He's far too gaffe-prone and always has been. All of that was understood by the Democratic primary voters who selected him over the likes of Sanders because he was an experienced moderate. It was also understood by the independents and moderate conservatives who found common cause with the Dems to boot the bigoted, corrupt, lying, conspiracy theorizing, deluded, narcissistic man-child out on his arse.

Biden's job is to set broad policy, advocate publicly for it, and select capable people to carry it out. That and be a calming and rational leader of the country. As long as he's doing that, he can go to bed at 6:30pm for all I care.

If I were you, I'd be far more concerned about the absolute state of the Republican Party, where the only apparent guiding principle is fealty and subservience to the fragile, demented ego of Donald Trump, where no lie or conspiracy theory is too extreme as long as it serve's the Dear Leader's cause.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 04:47:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 04:11:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 02:12:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 01:40:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2021, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM
Any sign of joe doing a state of the union ?

Next January I'd expect.

Like every newly inaugurated president.

Exactly, Trump in 2017 and Obama in 2009 did not give State of the Union addresses.
ok will he speak before a joint session of congress anytime soon ?

Haven't heard of any plans to do so.

Maybe when everyone is vaccinated or something.

Why?
serious question do you think joe Biden has any cognitive problems .

No.
hit me up if you make it to Bay Area someday I've a nice bridge I want to sell you .

You've been beating that drum for months, parroting Trump.

Biden was basically going to be a drooling zombie at the debates and in all other appearances.

It didn't happen. And all of the ridicule and fear mongering didn't work.

You even threw out the (oh my god!!) comment here a couple of weeks ago that Biden went to bed at (gasp) 9pm! I go to f**king bed around then myself. I have to. I'm in work by 7.

And guess what? Biden has never been an eloquent speaker or unscripted explainer. He's no Bill Clinton or Barak Obama. He's far too gaffe-prone and always has been. All of that was understood by the Democratic primary voters who selected him over the likes of Sanders because he was an experienced moderate. It was also understood by the independents and moderate conservatives who found common cause with the Dems to boot the bigoted, corrupt, lying, conspiracy theorizing, deluded, narcissistic man-child out on his arse.

Biden's job is to set broad policy, advocate publicly for it, and select capable people to carry it out. That and be a calming and rational leader of the country. As long as he's doing that, he can go to bed at 6:30pm for all I care.

If I were you, I'd be far more concerned about the absolute state of the Republican Party, where the only apparent guiding principle is fealty and subservience to the fragile, demented ego of Donald Trump, where no lie or conspiracy theory is too extreme as long as it serve's the Dear Leader's cause.
it's actually 7pm according to a new report.
Biden was locked in his basement for some reason for all 2020 that was the strategy the news networks and social media all ignored this . Time will tell how long he lasts , Susan rice is the de facto president is what I hear .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?

Sure he could.

But, lacking the massive ego of Trump with his inexhaustible need for attention, he's happy to let the professionals handle the day-to-day stuff, outside of policy announcements.

Few presidents have dominated news like Trump did. Few wanted to like he did.

I'm happy for Biden to go quietly about his business, as long as the business is getting done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?

Sure he could.

But, lacking the massive ego of Trump with his inexhaustible need for attention, he's happy to let the professionals handle the day-to-day stuff, outside of policy announcements.

Few presidents have dominated news like Trump did. Few wanted to like he did.

I'm happy for Biden to go quietly about his business, as long as the business is getting done.
like releasing 108 illegal immigrants into Texas who are positive for covid , great work joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?

Sure he could.

But, lacking the massive ego of Trump with his inexhaustible need for attention, he's happy to let the professionals handle the day-to-day stuff, outside of policy announcements.

Few presidents have dominated news like Trump did. Few wanted to like he did.

I'm happy for Biden to go quietly about his business, as long as the business is getting done.
like releasing 108 illegal immigrants into Texas who are positive for covid , great work joe

You see, that is fair criticism.

Bedtimes and dementia is not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 05, 2021, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?

Sure he could.

But, lacking the massive ego of Trump with his inexhaustible need for attention, he's happy to let the professionals handle the day-to-day stuff, outside of policy announcements.

Few presidents have dominated news like Trump did. Few wanted to like he did.

I'm happy for Biden to go quietly about his business, as long as the business is getting done.
like releasing 108 illegal immigrants into Texas who are positive for covid , great work joe

You see, that is fair criticism.

Bedtimes and dementia is not.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics/abbott-migrants-covid-testing/index.html

The Biden administration wanted to provide federal funds for Covid-19 tests for migrants in Texas but Governor Abbott has been getting in the way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2021, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 05, 2021, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?

Sure he could.

But, lacking the massive ego of Trump with his inexhaustible need for attention, he's happy to let the professionals handle the day-to-day stuff, outside of policy announcements.

Few presidents have dominated news like Trump did. Few wanted to like he did.

I'm happy for Biden to go quietly about his business, as long as the business is getting done.
like releasing 108 illegal immigrants into Texas who are positive for covid , great work joe

You see, that is fair criticism.

Bedtimes and dementia is not.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics/abbott-migrants-covid-testing/index.html

The Biden administration wanted to provide federal funds for Covid-19 tests for migrants in Texas but Governor Abbott has been getting in the way.

I should clarify that I was commenting on the general topic of criticism, as opposed to the specifics of the story.

Whether or not the actual story is bullshit, at least its a policy issue which can be subject to verification.

Conspiracy theories about dementia or the meaning of the rumoured time Biden goes to bed are just idiotic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 06:34:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 05, 2021, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?

Sure he could.

But, lacking the massive ego of Trump with his inexhaustible need for attention, he's happy to let the professionals handle the day-to-day stuff, outside of policy announcements.

Few presidents have dominated news like Trump did. Few wanted to like he did.

I'm happy for Biden to go quietly about his business, as long as the business is getting done.
like releasing 108 illegal immigrants into Texas who are positive for covid , great work joe

You see, that is fair criticism.

Bedtimes and dementia is not.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics/abbott-migrants-covid-testing/index.html

The Biden administration wanted to provide federal funds for Covid-19 tests for migrants in Texas but Governor Abbott has been getting in the way.

I should clarify that I was commenting on the general topic of criticism, as opposed to the specifics of the story.

Whether or not the actual story is bullshit, at least its a policy issue which can be subject to verification.

Conspiracy theories about dementia or the meaning of the rumoured time Biden goes to bed are just idiotic.
the border should be closed and anyone entering illegally should be deported straight away that should be federal policy during a pandemic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 05, 2021, 07:02:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 06:34:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 05, 2021, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?

Sure he could.

But, lacking the massive ego of Trump with his inexhaustible need for attention, he's happy to let the professionals handle the day-to-day stuff, outside of policy announcements.

Few presidents have dominated news like Trump did. Few wanted to like he did.

I'm happy for Biden to go quietly about his business, as long as the business is getting done.
like releasing 108 illegal immigrants into Texas who are positive for covid , great work joe

You see, that is fair criticism.

Bedtimes and dementia is not.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics/abbott-migrants-covid-testing/index.html

The Biden administration wanted to provide federal funds for Covid-19 tests for migrants in Texas but Governor Abbott has been getting in the way.

I should clarify that I was commenting on the general topic of criticism, as opposed to the specifics of the story.

Whether or not the actual story is bullshit, at least its a policy issue which can be subject to verification.

Conspiracy theories about dementia or the meaning of the rumoured time Biden goes to bed are just idiotic.
the border should be closed and anyone entering illegally should be deported straight away that should be federal policy during a pandemic.

Person, woman, man, camera, TV😜
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on March 05, 2021, 10:02:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 06:34:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 05, 2021, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?

Sure he could.

But, lacking the massive ego of Trump with his inexhaustible need for attention, he's happy to let the professionals handle the day-to-day stuff, outside of policy announcements.

Few presidents have dominated news like Trump did. Few wanted to like he did.

I'm happy for Biden to go quietly about his business, as long as the business is getting done.
like releasing 108 illegal immigrants into Texas who are positive for covid , great work joe

You see, that is fair criticism.

Bedtimes and dementia is not.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics/abbott-migrants-covid-testing/index.html

The Biden administration wanted to provide federal funds for Covid-19 tests for migrants in Texas but Governor Abbott has been getting in the way.

I should clarify that I was commenting on the general topic of criticism, as opposed to the specifics of the story.

Whether or not the actual story is bullshit, at least its a policy issue which can be subject to verification.

Conspiracy theories about dementia or the meaning of the rumoured time Biden goes to bed are just idiotic.
the border should be closed and anyone entering illegally should be deported straight away that should be federal policy during a pandemic.
All borders should be closed under pandemic restrictions, land, sea and air, not just  the minor issue of  illegal entry which apparantly attracts a lot of focus from racists / MAGA supporters etc.. And what the issue of illegal entry has got to do with Trump's evident chronic  emotional and mental diseases is beyond me. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 11:45:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 05, 2021, 10:02:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 06:34:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: dec on March 05, 2021, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 05, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
You hear from where??

EVERYONE knew Biden wasn't out and about. He was homebound, just like most of the rest of us, doing everything via Zoom.

And STILL it didn't matter, because Trump was such a historic f**k-up.

He had the whole stage to himself. He had two huge national issues to deal with, the type of stuff of which presidential greatness is made. But he couldn't see past the paranoid, reactionary, bigoted, own-the-libs wishes of his base and he completely blew it.
he won the election he needs to be scrutinized like Trump was every minute of every day .
Do you think he could do a covid update press conference and handle the questions trump had too last year ?

Sure he could.

But, lacking the massive ego of Trump with his inexhaustible need for attention, he's happy to let the professionals handle the day-to-day stuff, outside of policy announcements.

Few presidents have dominated news like Trump did. Few wanted to like he did.

I'm happy for Biden to go quietly about his business, as long as the business is getting done.
like releasing 108 illegal immigrants into Texas who are positive for covid , great work joe

You see, that is fair criticism.

Bedtimes and dementia is not.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics/abbott-migrants-covid-testing/index.html

The Biden administration wanted to provide federal funds for Covid-19 tests for migrants in Texas but Governor Abbott has been getting in the way.

I should clarify that I was commenting on the general topic of criticism, as opposed to the specifics of the story.

Whether or not the actual story is bullshit, at least its a policy issue which can be subject to verification.

Conspiracy theories about dementia or the meaning of the rumoured time Biden goes to bed are just idiotic.
the border should be closed and anyone entering illegally should be deported straight away that should be federal policy during a pandemic.
All borders should be closed under pandemic restrictions, land, sea and air, not just  the minor issue of  illegal entry which apparantly attracts a lot of focus from racists / MAGA supporters etc.. And what the issue of illegal entry has got to do with Trump's evident chronic  emotional and mental diseases is beyond me.
liberalism is a mental disorder down on Main Street bob seger sang back in the day .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 06, 2021, 08:20:01 AM
It's that kind of arrogance and disdain for liberal America which has caused Conservatives to lose the last 2 elections so badly! They'll need to look at that for the next one so they don't lose again!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 06, 2021, 01:56:46 PM

Vindication for Ron DeSantis
The media vilified him for rejecting harsh lockdowns. But Florida's Covid-19 numbers are better than California's or New York's, and its economy thrives.
By  Allysia Finley
March 5, 2021 6:25 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
558

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis speaks at a Covid-19 testing site in Miami Gardens, Fla., Jan. 6.
PHOTO: WILFREDO LEE/ASSOCIATED PRESS
Listen to this article11 minutes

00:00 / 10:51
1x

In the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo imposed strict lockdown policies—many still in place—and became the media's golden boy. "The governor of New York's morning news conferences have become part of the country's new daily rhythm," the Washington Post's Style section gushed in March 2020. "He's the strongman who can admit he's wrong. He speaks fluently about the facts. He worries about his mother, and by extension, yours, too."

Gov. Ron DeSantis took a different approach and was pilloried. He was among the first to lift his state lockdown, adopting something resembling Sweden's strategy of protecting the vulnerable while keeping businesses and schools open. "Florida Man Leads His State to the Morgue," read a June headline in the New Republic. "Ron DeSantis is the latest in a long line of Republicans who made the state a plutocratic dystopia. Now he's letting its residents die to save the plutocrats."

A year after the virus hit the U.S., Mr. Cuomo's luster has faded, and Mr. DeSantis can claim vindication. The Sunshine State appears to have weathered the pandemic better than others like New York and California, which stayed locked down harder and longer.


Mortality data bear out this conclusion. The Covid death risk increases enormously with each decade of age. More than 80% of Covid deaths in the U.S. have occurred among seniors over 65. They make up a larger share of Florida's population than any other state except Maine. Based on demographics, Florida's per-capita Covid death rate would be expected to be one of the highest in the country.

NEWSLETTER SIGN-UP
Opinion: Morning Editorial Report
All the day's Opinion headlines.

PREVIEW
SUBSCRIBE
Nope. Florida's death rate is in the middle of the pack and only slightly higher than in California, which has a much younger population. Florida's death rate among seniors is about 20% lower than California's and 50% lower than New York's, based on Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data.

Several Democratic governors, including Mr. Cuomo and New Jersey's Phil Murphy, early in the pandemic required nursing homes to accept Covid patients discharged from hospitals, though many were short-staffed and unable to care for them properly. The New York investigation by Attorney General Letitia James estimated that the state's nursing home deaths were 50% higher than Mr. Cuomo's official figures, though it's impossible to know how many deaths his order caused. The Journal reported Thursday that Mr. Cuomo's aides rewrote a report by state health officials in June to omit the number of New York nursing-home residents who'd died in hospitals during the pandemic.


Mr. DeSantis took a smarter approach. His administration halted outside visitations to nursing homes and bolstered their stockpile of personal protective equipment. Florida's government also set up 23 Covid-dedicated nursing centers for elderly patients discharged from hospitals. Nursing-home residents who tested positive and couldn't be isolated in their facilities were sent to these Covid-only wards. Florida set up field hospitals to handle a surge in cases that models predicted in the spring, although it never materialized.

"Those models about hospital overcrowding never even came close to bearing out, even in New York," Mr. DeSantis says in an interview. "Some of those policies that were done in these other states, they really were motivated by those models. And those models did do a lot of damage."

Like most governors, Mr. DeSantis shut down most businesses when President Trump issued guidelines for a national lockdown on March 16. "We did the 15 days to slow the spread," Mr. DeSantis says. The governor kept restrictions on "nonessential" businesses for several more weeks, but he let more places stay open than other states, including child-care facilities, construction sites, hotels and beaches. National media published photos of crowded Florida beaches. "DeSantis in Florida let everybody go crazy over spring break," CNN's Chris Cuomo, the New York governor's brother, said in June. "He then exported all that virus back to wherever—wherever they wanted to go, OK?"

But Florida's infection rate during April stayed on par with California, where most beaches and residential construction were restricted. "I was not convinced that a lot of those [lockdown] policies were making a huge difference as data came in," Mr. DeSantis says.

Florida began a phased reopening in early May, allowing restaurants, barbershops, nail salons, gyms and other retailers to operate initially at 50% capacity provided they follow social-distancing and sanitary protocols. Bars and pubs were later allowed to open at 50% capacity, and limits for other businesses were increased.

Mr. DeSantis also let theme parks—important Florida employers and tourist attractions—reopen at reduced capacity. SeaWorld Orlando and Universal Studios reopened in June. "Disney World took a little longer, but that was just because of their [own] business decisions." California's government still hasn't allowed the Disneyland or Universal Studios theme parks to reopen.

Florida's cases started climbing in June as people socialized more, including at graduation parties, summer cookouts and on Father's Day. Experts and the media castigated the governor for reopening too fast and too soon. "Despite the guidelines and the recommendations to open up carefully and prudently, some states skipped over those and just opened up too quickly," the National Institutes of Health's Anthony Fauci said in July. "Certainly Florida I know, you know, I think jumped over a couple of checkpoints."


But cases spiked across the Sun Belt, including in California, which maintained much stricter business restrictions. Still, political pressure intensified on Mr. DeSantis to shut down his state again. He refused. "I'm like, 'No, we're not going to lock down. It doesn't work. It compounds problems,' " he says. The virus is not "going to be governed by simply closing someone's business, or not letting people go to work."

Mr. DeSantis says he listened to a different cast of experts such as Stanford's Jay Bhattacharya, Harvard's Martin Kulldorff and Oxford's Carl Heneghan and Sunetra Gupta. Instead of shutting down businesses in the summer, he ordered more-frequent testing for nursing-home workers and deployed more personnel to hard-hit hospitals. In late July, cases in Florida and across the Sun Belt began to fall.

In September Mr. DeSantis lifted capacity restrictions on restaurants and bars. He also overrode local jurisdictions that tried to keep them closed. "We said every business has the right to operate; you cannot close anything. Everyone has the right to work. You have to let people earn a living," he says. Mr. DeSantis also required local school districts to offer in-person instruction five days a week in the fall, though parents could choose remote learning instead. "The union sued us, but we beat them in court."

Teachers unions in large school districts in California, meanwhile, have refused to return to classrooms. They claim schools are unsafe. But per capita Covid cases among children are about the same in Florida and California.

When cases began to rise again in the fall, Democratic governors like Mr. Cuomo and California's Gavin Newsom tightened business shutdowns and even sought to limit Thanksgiving gatherings to 10 people. Mr. Cuomo griped that police weren't strictly enforcing his household limits.

The fall and winter lockdowns don't appear to have made any difference in the virus spread. Between Nov. 1 and Feb. 28, there were 5.8 new cases per 100 people in New York, 6.4 in California, and only 5 in Florida, where businesses could stay open at full capacity. But the economic impact of the lockdowns has been enormous.

Employment declined by 4.6% in Florida in 2020, compared with 8% in California and 10.4% in New York. Leisure and hospitality jobs fell 15% in Florida, vs. 30% in California and 39% in New York.


Florida's freedom has drawn people and economic activity to the state. It ranked third among "U-Haul Migration Growth States" for one-way rentals. While travel is still lower than it was last year, several airlines including Southwest, Spirit and United have added direct flights to Florida this winter. "The addition of these new flights represents United's largest expansion of point-to-point, non-hub flying and reflects our data driven approach to add capacity where customers are telling us they want to go," said Ankit Gupta, the airline's vice president in charge of domestic scheduling.

The state "had an acceleration of some of the business migration that we've seen, particularly in finance," Mr. DeSantis says. The Hedge Fund Association hosted a webinar last month titled "Capitalizing on South Florida," highlighting investment firms that had moved to the region.

Mr. DeSantis's administration counts at least 35 large businesses that have moved to the state since the pandemic began. According to Census Bureau data, Florida's per capita business formation between April 2020 and January 2021 was twice as high as California's and 75% higher than New York's.

Florida's economy shrank only 3.7% in the third quarter of 2020 from the fourth quarter in 2019, according to data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, compared with 4.9% for California and 8% for New York. The latter states probably took even bigger economic hits in the fourth quarter when they shut down.

As for tourism, Mr. DeSantis says "the Panhandle had their best summer and best year ever," thanks to family road trips from nearby states. Orlando has been somewhat slower to bounce back because it relies more on foreign visitors, and international travel has been almost entirely shut down.

Real estate across the state is booming. Home sales increased 20% in the last six months of 2020 year over year, while the median sales price rose 14.4%. Construction wages and salaries during the third quarter were 3.2% higher in Florida year over year but 4.8% lower in California and 9.3% lower in New York. "When you talk to home builders, what they'll tell me is they've had the best year," Mr. DeSantis says. "They've noticed more [people moving] from California than they ever have."

The lesson of Florida's Covid success story, according to the governor: "We've shown people that you can have a good time, you can be safe, and you can make the decision that's best for you." What has Andrew Cuomo learned?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 06, 2021, 02:02:58 PM
Amazing how the media can spin a narrative based on nothing and people actually believe it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/04/02/coronavirus-governors-2024-election-160125
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on March 07, 2021, 03:10:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:16:09 PM
f**king hell, even the PCR test is a conspiracy. ;D

Funny how everything you don't believe in happens to be a conspiracy theory. Small wonder you did not loosely add in the "paranoid" word.  The resort of indoctrinated zombies.

From WHO themselves:

"The results of the PCR Test applied to SARS-2 are blatantly flawed. Drosten et al recommended the use of a 45 amplification threshold cycle (Ct), which was endorsed by the WHO in January 2020.

According to Pieter Borger, et al

The number of amplification cycles [should be] less than 35; preferably 25-30 cycles. In case of virus detection, >35 cycles only detects signals which do not correlate with infectious virus as determined by isolation in cell culture...(Critique of Drosten Study)

The WHO's RT-PCR "Retraction" (January 20, 2021)

The RT-PCR test was adopted by the WHO on January 23, 2020, following the recommendations of  the Drosten study quoted above.

One year later on January 20th, 2021, the WHO came out with the admission that the PCR test will yield biased results if they are conducted above a certain cycle threshold used for amplification. Below is the text of the WHO's "retraction":

WHO guidance Diagnostic testing for SARS-CoV-2 states that careful interpretation of weak positive results is needed (1). The cycle threshold (Ct) needed to detect virus is inversely proportional to the patient's viral load. Where test results do not correspond with the clinical presentation, a new specimen should be taken and retested using the same or different NAT technology.

What this admission of the WHO confirms is that most of the estimates of covid positive under the so-called "Second Wave" (with amplification cycles in excess of 35) are invalid, which means that the lockdown / economic measures which have resulted in social panic, mass poverty and unemployment (allegedly to curtail the spread of the virus) have no justification whatsoever.

Moreover, the WHO is calling for retesting: "a new specimen should be taken and retested...". That recommendation is pro-forma. I won't happen. (It is there to sustain the legitimacy of the WHO). Millions of people Worldwide have already been tested:

"if someone is tested by PCR as positive when a threshold of 35 cycles or higher is used (as is the case in most laboratories in Europe & the US), the probability that said person is actually infected is less than 3%, the probability that said result is a false positive is 97%  (Pieter Borger, Bobby Rajesh Malhotra, Michael Yeadon, Clare Craig, Kevin McKernan, et al, Critique of Drosten Study)

At the time of writing (Second Wave) the test is being used extensively to hike up the numbers with a view to justifying a partial lockdown with devastating social and economic impacts including the engineered bankruptcy of tourism, air travel and the urban services economy.

Both the WHO and the scientific assessments (quoted above) confirm unequivocally that the tests adopted by governments to justify the destabilization of their national economy are TOTALLY INVALID. Moreover, those PCR tests are not routinely accompanied by a medical diagnosis of the patients who are being tested".

Complete article
https://web.archive.org/web/20210213014002/https://www.globalresearch.ca/clinical-lab-scientist-covid-19-fake-wake-up-america/5737013 (https://web.archive.org/web/20210213014002/https://www.globalresearch.ca/clinical-lab-scientist-covid-19-fake-wake-up-america/5737013)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 07, 2021, 08:03:22 AM
Is that Pieter Borger, the creationist guy who thinks evolution is a myth?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2021, 08:51:43 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 07, 2021, 03:10:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2021, 09:16:09 PM
f**king hell, even the PCR test is a conspiracy. ;D

Funny how everything you don't believe in happens to be a conspiracy theory. Small wonder you did not loosely add in the "paranoid" word.  The resort of indoctrinated zombies.

From WHO themselves:

"The results of the PCR Test applied to SARS-2 are blatantly flawed. Drosten et al recommended the use of a 45 amplification threshold cycle (Ct), which was endorsed by the WHO in January 2020.

According to Pieter Borger, et al

The number of amplification cycles [should be] less than 35; preferably 25-30 cycles. In case of virus detection, >35 cycles only detects signals which do not correlate with infectious virus as determined by isolation in cell culture...(Critique of Drosten Study)

The WHO's RT-PCR "Retraction" (January 20, 2021)

The RT-PCR test was adopted by the WHO on January 23, 2020, following the recommendations of  the Drosten study quoted above.

One year later on January 20th, 2021, the WHO came out with the admission that the PCR test will yield biased results if they are conducted above a certain cycle threshold used for amplification. Below is the text of the WHO's "retraction":

WHO guidance Diagnostic testing for SARS-CoV-2 states that careful interpretation of weak positive results is needed (1). The cycle threshold (Ct) needed to detect virus is inversely proportional to the patient's viral load. Where test results do not correspond with the clinical presentation, a new specimen should be taken and retested using the same or different NAT technology.

What this admission of the WHO confirms is that most of the estimates of covid positive under the so-called "Second Wave" (with amplification cycles in excess of 35) are invalid, which means that the lockdown / economic measures which have resulted in social panic, mass poverty and unemployment (allegedly to curtail the spread of the virus) have no justification whatsoever.

Moreover, the WHO is calling for retesting: "a new specimen should be taken and retested...". That recommendation is pro-forma. I won't happen. (It is there to sustain the legitimacy of the WHO). Millions of people Worldwide have already been tested:

"if someone is tested by PCR as positive when a threshold of 35 cycles or higher is used (as is the case in most laboratories in Europe & the US), the probability that said person is actually infected is less than 3%, the probability that said result is a false positive is 97%  (Pieter Borger, Bobby Rajesh Malhotra, Michael Yeadon, Clare Craig, Kevin McKernan, et al, Critique of Drosten Study)

At the time of writing (Second Wave) the test is being used extensively to hike up the numbers with a view to justifying a partial lockdown with devastating social and economic impacts including the engineered bankruptcy of tourism, air travel and the urban services economy.

Both the WHO and the scientific assessments (quoted above) confirm unequivocally that the tests adopted by governments to justify the destabilization of their national economy are TOTALLY INVALID. Moreover, those PCR tests are not routinely accompanied by a medical diagnosis of the patients who are being tested".

Complete article
https://web.archive.org/web/20210213014002/https://www.globalresearch.ca/clinical-lab-scientist-covid-19-fake-wake-up-america/5737013 (https://web.archive.org/web/20210213014002/https://www.globalresearch.ca/clinical-lab-scientist-covid-19-fake-wake-up-america/5737013)

Many people would look at the CT issue as possibly over-sensitive, in that once you get to 37 cycles, or more in some versions of the test, you may be calling people positive based on very low viral loads.

However, they would also understand that given the fact that you can't be testing people every couple of days, what's the alternative? By definition, you're going to have a low viral load early in your infection, before you develop a high viral load and become increasingly infectious and, in some, symptomatic. I guess we could just ignore asymptotic transmission and restrict testing to symptomatic individuals, but I'm guessing most would prefer to err on the side of caution in a novel global pandemic (and yeah, I see from your references, including creationists and astrology enthusiasts, that you see this all as a pile of bullshit concocted to allow the establishment of a new world order or whatever. Knock yourself out).

As an aside, on the other extreme, I've gotten abuse from individuals about whether it is safe for them to work because the PCR tests were perceived to be not sensitive enough, due to the chances of a false negative being much higher in the early stages of infection!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2021, 09:05:46 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 06, 2021, 02:02:58 PM
Amazing how the media can spin a narrative based on nothing and people actually believe it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/04/02/coronavirus-governors-2024-election-160125

How was it based on "nothing"?

Those governors, including the likes of DeWine and Hogan, were perceived to be stepping up at that particular moment, around the same time that Trump was pushing dubious pharmaceutical and disinfectant treatments and being in general denial about the seriousness of the pandemic.

Cuomo may have made a bad decision on the nursing homes, but it wasn't clear at that point. He had yet to go down the road of trying to hide the nursing home deaths. His sexual harassment scandals were almost a year away. What everyone was seeing was a sober leader taking the pandemic seriously and giving calm, mature guidance and updates to the public as NYC was suffering the first severe outbreak in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2021, 06:17:32 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/156985918_4254347581259290_7560242888232023172_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=KjCC8Mbd90AAX-l4CHX&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=27b7d14d52235fbe547606fbbaf4f008&oe=606DBCBA)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 09, 2021, 07:12:31 PM
No press conference by joe Biden since inauguration.
longest period in last 15 presidents .
I wonder why .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 09, 2021, 07:12:31 PM
No press conference by joe Biden since inauguration.
longest period in last 15 presidents .
I wonder why .

He's too busy undoing Trump's agenda.

But yeah, he should get out there now and again.

But its also hilarious how the likes of yourself are so wedded to the Alzheimer Joe narrative. Whatever gives you comfort I guess. There's certainly none coming from the GOP side.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 09, 2021, 08:43:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 09, 2021, 07:12:31 PM
No press conference by joe Biden since inauguration.
longest period in last 15 presidents .
I wonder why .

He's too busy undoing Trump's agenda.

But yeah, he should get out there now and again.

But its also hilarious how the likes of yourself are so wedded to the Alzheimer Joe narrative. Whatever gives you comfort I guess. There's certainly none coming from the GOP side.
ii don't think he can handle being asked questions off the cuff by the press , why that is only time will tell , but it can't solely be because he's gaffe prone that doesn't cut it anymore.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 09, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.

Nice attempt at deflection (as per usual)

I was referring to the "unaccompanied" minors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-children-border-patrol-custody-past-legal-limit/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 09, 2021, 09:08:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.

Nice attempt at deflection (as per usual)

I was referring to the "unaccompanied" minors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-children-border-patrol-custody-past-legal-limit/

I know what you were referring to. It's all over the news.

Hence "these migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible".

My point was that it's unfortunate, but it's not a deliberate policy to dehumanize and to satisfy the cruelty of a constituency.

Regardless, they can't just wish adequate facilities into existence. It's going to take time.

Trump would be, and was, just shipping them back across the border.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 09, 2021, 09:10:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 09, 2021, 08:43:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 09, 2021, 07:12:31 PM
No press conference by joe Biden since inauguration.
longest period in last 15 presidents .
I wonder why .

He's too busy undoing Trump's agenda.

But yeah, he should get out there now and again.

But its also hilarious how the likes of yourself are so wedded to the Alzheimer Joe narrative. Whatever gives you comfort I guess. There's certainly none coming from the GOP side.
ii don't think he can handle being asked questions off the cuff by the press , why that is only time will tell , but it can't solely be because he's gaffe prone that doesn't cut it anymore.

He did fine in the debates.

Which were five months ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 09, 2021, 10:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 09:08:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.

Nice attempt at deflection (as per usual)

I was referring to the "unaccompanied" minors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-children-border-patrol-custody-past-legal-limit/

I know what you were referring to. It's all over the news.

Hence "these migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible".

My point was that it's unfortunate, but it's not a deliberate policy to dehumanize and to satisfy the cruelty of a constituency.

Regardless, they can't just wish adequate facilities into existence. It's going to take time.

Trump would be, and was, just shipping them back across the border.

So they are temporary holding facilities now that  it's happening under a Democrat whereas they were cages and concentration camps when it happened under Trump-fair enough
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 09, 2021, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 10:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 09:08:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.

Nice attempt at deflection (as per usual)

I was referring to the "unaccompanied" minors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-children-border-patrol-custody-past-legal-limit/

I know what you were referring to. It's all over the news.

Hence "these migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible".

My point was that it's unfortunate, but it's not a deliberate policy to dehumanize and to satisfy the cruelty of a constituency.

Regardless, they can't just wish adequate facilities into existence. It's going to take time.

Trump would be, and was, just shipping them back across the border.

So they are temporary holding facilities now that  it's happening under a Democrat whereas they were cages and concentration camps when it happened under Trump-fair enough

Go ahead and point out where I said any such thing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2021, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 10:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 09:08:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.

Nice attempt at deflection (as per usual)

I was referring to the "unaccompanied" minors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-children-border-patrol-custody-past-legal-limit/

I know what you were referring to. It's all over the news.

Hence "these migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible".

My point was that it's unfortunate, but it's not a deliberate policy to dehumanize and to satisfy the cruelty of a constituency.

Regardless, they can't just wish adequate facilities into existence. It's going to take time.

Trump would be, and was, just shipping them back across the border.

So they are temporary holding facilities now that  it's happening under a Democrat whereas they were cages and concentration camps when it happened under Trump-fair enough

Go ahead and point out where I said any such thing.

I'm referring to the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2021, 12:33:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 10:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 09:08:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.

Nice attempt at deflection (as per usual)

I was referring to the "unaccompanied" minors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-children-border-patrol-custody-past-legal-limit/

I know what you were referring to. It's all over the news.

Hence "these migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible".

My point was that it's unfortunate, but it's not a deliberate policy to dehumanize and to satisfy the cruelty of a constituency.

Regardless, they can't just wish adequate facilities into existence. It's going to take time.

Trump would be, and was, just shipping them back across the border.

So they are temporary holding facilities now that  it's happening under a Democrat whereas they were cages and concentration camps when it happened under Trump-fair enough

Go ahead and point out where I said any such thing.

I'm referring to the Democrats

Who?

All Democrats?

A specific Democrat?

Someone on Twitter?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2021, 12:50:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2021, 12:33:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 10:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 09:08:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.

Nice attempt at deflection (as per usual)

I was referring to the "unaccompanied" minors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-children-border-patrol-custody-past-legal-limit/

I know what you were referring to. It's all over the news.

Hence "these migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible".

My point was that it's unfortunate, but it's not a deliberate policy to dehumanize and to satisfy the cruelty of a constituency.

Regardless, they can't just wish adequate facilities into existence. It's going to take time.

Trump would be, and was, just shipping them back across the border.

So they are temporary holding facilities now that  it's happening under a Democrat whereas they were cages and concentration camps when it happened under Trump-fair enough

Go ahead and point out where I said any such thing.

I'm referring to the Democrats

Who?

All Democrats?

A specific Democrat?

Someone on Twitter?

The ones who were vocal under Trump, actually don't see to have very much to say if anything at all

Maybe AOC can go back down and are a scene in front of an empty parking lot lounge she did the last time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2021, 02:05:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 12:50:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2021, 12:33:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 10:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 09:08:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.

Nice attempt at deflection (as per usual)

I was referring to the "unaccompanied" minors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-children-border-patrol-custody-past-legal-limit/

I know what you were referring to. It's all over the news.

Hence "these migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible".

My point was that it's unfortunate, but it's not a deliberate policy to dehumanize and to satisfy the cruelty of a constituency.

Regardless, they can't just wish adequate facilities into existence. It's going to take time.

Trump would be, and was, just shipping them back across the border.

So they are temporary holding facilities now that  it's happening under a Democrat whereas they were cages and concentration camps when it happened under Trump-fair enough

Go ahead and point out where I said any such thing.

I'm referring to the Democrats

Who?

All Democrats?

A specific Democrat?

Someone on Twitter?

The ones who were vocal under Trump, actually don't see to have very much to say if anything at all

Maybe AOC can go back down and are a scene in front of an empty parking lot lounge she did the last time

This is from two weeks ago, so I guess you may have missed it (assuming you bothered to look).

""This is not okay, never has been okay, never will be okay - no matter the administration or party,"

https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2021/02/aoc-slams-biden-administration-for-reopening-migrant-facility-for-children-this-is-not-okay.html (https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2021/02/aoc-slams-biden-administration-for-reopening-migrant-facility-for-children-this-is-not-okay.html)
https://nypost.com/2021/02/24/aoc-slams-biden-for-reopening-migrant-facilities-in-texas/ (https://nypost.com/2021/02/24/aoc-slams-biden-for-reopening-migrant-facilities-in-texas/)
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-biden-child-migrant-facility (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-biden-child-migrant-facility)
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-aoc-biden-migrant-camp-children-20210224-hsdvznvmfncylkxymcivuq3f6m-story.html (https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-aoc-biden-migrant-camp-children-20210224-hsdvznvmfncylkxymcivuq3f6m-story.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2021, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 09, 2021, 07:12:31 PM
No press conference by joe Biden since inauguration.
longest period in last 15 presidents .
I wonder why .

He's too busy undoing Trump's agenda.

But yeah, he should get out there now and again.

But its also hilarious how the likes of yourself are so wedded to the Alzheimer Joe narrative. Whatever gives you comfort I guess. There's certainly none coming from the GOP side.
The 2 worst candidates ran
The Dem Party's donors do not care that Biden is so old, as long as he is neoliberal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2021, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2021, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 09, 2021, 07:12:31 PM
No press conference by joe Biden since inauguration.
longest period in last 15 presidents .
I wonder why .

He's too busy undoing Trump's agenda.

But yeah, he should get out there now and again.

But its also hilarious how the likes of yourself are so wedded to the Alzheimer Joe narrative. Whatever gives you comfort I guess. There's certainly none coming from the GOP side.
The 2 worst candidates ran
The Dem Party's donors do not care that Biden is so old, as long as he is neoliberal.

I'd argue that 2016 gave us two much worse candidates. Not saying Hillary wouldn't have been a capable president, and light years ahead of what we ended up with, but she was a terrible candidate, with far too many self-inflicted wounds.

Biden being a neoliberal?

Don't tell the right wingers! He's either a raving commie to them, or he's so completely vacant and feeble with old age that he's a mere puppet being controlled by China, AOC and Elizabeth Warren!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2021, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2021, 02:05:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 12:50:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2021, 12:33:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 10:42:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 09:08:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 09, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
He's too busy locking kids up in concentration camps

At least he's not ripping them out of their parents arms and shipping them off across the country to who knows where in a dehumanizing attempt to intimidate other people into not coming.

These migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible. Biden's base won't stand for otherwise.

Unlike Trump's, who cheered every desperate mother's wail.

Nice attempt at deflection (as per usual)

I was referring to the "unaccompanied" minors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-children-border-patrol-custody-past-legal-limit/

I know what you were referring to. It's all over the news.

Hence "these migrant kids will be dealt with as humanely as possible".

My point was that it's unfortunate, but it's not a deliberate policy to dehumanize and to satisfy the cruelty of a constituency.

Regardless, they can't just wish adequate facilities into existence. It's going to take time.

Trump would be, and was, just shipping them back across the border.

So they are temporary holding facilities now that  it's happening under a Democrat whereas they were cages and concentration camps when it happened under Trump-fair enough

Go ahead and point out where I said any such thing.

I'm referring to the Democrats

Who?

All Democrats?

A specific Democrat?

Someone on Twitter?

The ones who were vocal under Trump, actually don't see to have very much to say if anything at all

Maybe AOC can go back down and are a scene in front of an empty parking lot lounge she did the last time

This is from two weeks ago, so I guess you may have missed it (assuming you bothered to look).

""This is not okay, never has been okay, never will be okay - no matter the administration or party,"

https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2021/02/aoc-slams-biden-administration-for-reopening-migrant-facility-for-children-this-is-not-okay.html (https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2021/02/aoc-slams-biden-administration-for-reopening-migrant-facility-for-children-this-is-not-okay.html)
https://nypost.com/2021/02/24/aoc-slams-biden-for-reopening-migrant-facilities-in-texas/ (https://nypost.com/2021/02/24/aoc-slams-biden-for-reopening-migrant-facilities-in-texas/)
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-biden-child-migrant-facility (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-biden-child-migrant-facility)
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-aoc-biden-migrant-camp-children-20210224-hsdvznvmfncylkxymcivuq3f6m-story.html (https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-aoc-biden-migrant-camp-children-20210224-hsdvznvmfncylkxymcivuq3f6m-story.html)

Fantastic

Maybe people won't have to drink out of toilets now that Joe and Kamala are calling the shots
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 06:32:35 PM
The 2 bucks still not takin their batin  :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2021, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 06:32:35 PM
The 2 bucks still not takin their batin  :D

So J70, Eamonn and others criticizing Trump daily for 4 years was them "not takin their batin"-interesting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2021, 07:13:57 PM
Open Biden 🥃🥃🥃
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2021, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 06:32:35 PM
The 2 bucks still not takin their batin  :D

So J70, Eamonn and other criticizing Trump daily for 4 years was "not takin their batin"-interesting

Do you actually care about these kids and wish to see the overcrowding problems solved?

If you do, then you must realize that Biden has been there six weeks, he is working with what he inherited, and he was already starting from behind due to Trump holding up the transition.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2021, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2021, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 06:32:35 PM
The 2 bucks still not takin their batin  :D

So J70, Eamonn and other criticizing Trump daily for 4 years was "not takin their batin"-interesting

Do you actually care about these kids and wish to see the overcrowding problems solved?

If you do, then you must realize that Biden has been there six weeks, he is working with what he inherited, and he was already starting from behind due to Trump holding up the transition.

Of course I care about them

Obama told them not to come
Trump told them not to come
Joe is telling them not to come

But they're  still coming.



We share a land border with hundreds of millions of people living in Third World conditions. I don't blame them for one minute for trying to come

I guess the bigger philosophical  question is do we have an obligation to every single person who presents themselves at our southern border?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 08:01:38 PM
"Give me your......." or did that only apply to white Europeans?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2021, 08:43:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 08:01:38 PM
"Give me your......." or did that only apply to white Europeans?

So are you accusing President Obama of being a racist because he told them not to come?

Anyway it's an Apples and oranges comparison...That's when the country was in its infancy and they were trying to populate it

Only around 50M in the country at the time that was written


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2021, 09:44:20 PM
Most foreign born in USA by country
Mexico
India
China
Philippines
El Salvador
Vietnam
Cuba
Dominican Republic
South Korea
Guatemala
Colombia
Not many white Europeans in that list but don't let facts get in the way of your opinion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2021, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2021, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 10, 2021, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 06:32:35 PM
The 2 bucks still not takin their batin  :D

So J70, Eamonn and other criticizing Trump daily for 4 years was "not takin their batin"-interesting

Do you actually care about these kids and wish to see the overcrowding problems solved?

If you do, then you must realize that Biden has been there six weeks, he is working with what he inherited, and he was already starting from behind due to Trump holding up the transition.

Of course I care about them

Obama told them not to come
Trump told them not to come
Joe is telling them not to come

But they're  still coming.



We share a land border with hundreds of millions of people living in Third World conditions. I don't blame them for one minute for trying to come

I guess the bigger philosophical  question is do we have an obligation to every single person who presents themselves at our southern border?

Of course not.

Its just a shame the issue (which is undeniably difficult) has become so politicized and entrenched that rational discussion and policy making is all but impossible and we're stuck with executive order governing, which is subject to the whims of the White House, to try to deal with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 11, 2021, 05:41:58 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/159577839_3673697662680113_7045130434405034824_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0FREpQ5Z3dQAX-bvqtp&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=17b70ee59e1882607f80c64fd86442e7&oe=60714127)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2021, 10:21:23 PM
Arizona Republican, John Kavanaugh, reckons "quality" votes are important. Not every should be voting according to him.

I wonder does a "quality", "informed" voter believe all the baseless conspiracy theories the GOP are currently completely invested in, including Trumps stolen election fantasy? Is this hypothetical voter a Trump-before-country voter like so many Republicans?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwNmvAnVoAYCos6?format=jpg&name=small)

Its amazing how afraid the GOP are of electoral turnout. All over the US, they're trying to introduce laws even as anti-democratic as getting rid of early voting and making sure polls close very soon after regular working hours are over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2021, 12:13:32 AM
Quote"quality", "informed" voter

White voter?

Good man Joe

(https://i.postimg.cc/PrPNQGSf/Screen-Shot-2021-03-11-at-4-11-23-PM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 12, 2021, 01:15:11 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2021, 12:13:32 AM
Quote"quality", "informed" voter

White voter?

Good man Joe

(https://i.postimg.cc/PrPNQGSf/Screen-Shot-2021-03-11-at-4-11-23-PM.png)
great job president Trump and operation warp speed .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 12, 2021, 01:49:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2021, 10:21:23 PM
Arizona Republican, John Kavanaugh, reckons "quality" votes are important. Not every should be voting according to him.

I wonder does a "quality", "informed" voter believe all the baseless conspiracy theories the GOP are currently completely invested in, including Trumps stolen election fantasy? Is this hypothetical voter a Trump-before-country voter like so many Republicans?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwNmvAnVoAYCos6?format=jpg&name=small)

Its amazing how afraid the GOP are of electoral turnout. All over the US, they're trying to introduce laws even as anti-democratic as getting rid of early voting and making sure polls close very soon after regular working hours are over.

Do you consider ballot harvesting legitimate?

Should the signature on a mail in ballot match the signature that's on file for the voter?

Should a mail in ballot received after Election Day, have a legible postmark?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 12, 2021, 03:58:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 01:49:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2021, 10:21:23 PM
Arizona Republican, John Kavanaugh, reckons "quality" votes are important. Not every should be voting according to him.

I wonder does a "quality", "informed" voter believe all the baseless conspiracy theories the GOP are currently completely invested in, including Trumps stolen election fantasy? Is this hypothetical voter a Trump-before-country voter like so many Republicans?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwNmvAnVoAYCos6?format=jpg&name=small)

Its amazing how afraid the GOP are of electoral turnout. All over the US, they're trying to introduce laws even as anti-democratic as getting rid of early voting and making sure polls close very soon after regular working hours are over.

Do you consider ballot harvesting legitimate?

Should the signature on a mail in ballot match the signature that's on file for the voter?

Should a mail in ballot received after Election Day, have a legible postmark?

All perfectly reasonable. For the rest of the story read on
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/30/republicans-restrict-voting-access-bills
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2021, 04:04:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 01:49:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2021, 10:21:23 PM
Arizona Republican, John Kavanaugh, reckons "quality" votes are important. Not every should be voting according to him.

I wonder does a "quality", "informed" voter believe all the baseless conspiracy theories the GOP are currently completely invested in, including Trumps stolen election fantasy? Is this hypothetical voter a Trump-before-country voter like so many Republicans?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwNmvAnVoAYCos6?format=jpg&name=small)

Its amazing how afraid the GOP are of electoral turnout. All over the US, they're trying to introduce laws even as anti-democratic as getting rid of early voting and making sure polls close very soon after regular working hours are over.

Do you consider ballot harvesting legitimate?

Should the signature on a mail in ballot match the signature that's on file for the voter?

Should a mail in ballot received after Election Day, have a legible postmark?

I have no issue with ballot harvesting or collection.

Signature should match, within the normal bounds that signatures match (mine is never exactly the same each time).

Last one - yes.

Now, do you think it's in the interests of democracy to try to reduce hours and days that polling locations are open in a naked attempt to depress participation?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2021, 04:07:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2021, 01:15:11 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2021, 12:13:32 AM
Quote"quality", "informed" voter

White voter?

Good man Joe

(https://i.postimg.cc/PrPNQGSf/Screen-Shot-2021-03-11-at-4-11-23-PM.png)
great job president Trump and operation warp speed .

Credit to both presidents.

One of the rare things Trump did the right thing with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 12, 2021, 07:38:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 04:04:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 01:49:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2021, 10:21:23 PM
Arizona Republican, John Kavanaugh, reckons "quality" votes are important. Not every should be voting according to him.

I wonder does a "quality", "informed" voter believe all the baseless conspiracy theories the GOP are currently completely invested in, including Trumps stolen election fantasy? Is this hypothetical voter a Trump-before-country voter like so many Republicans?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwNmvAnVoAYCos6?format=jpg&name=small)

Its amazing how afraid the GOP are of electoral turnout. All over the US, they're trying to introduce laws even as anti-democratic as getting rid of early voting and making sure polls close very soon after regular working hours are over.

Do you consider ballot harvesting legitimate?

Should the signature on a mail in ballot match the signature that's on file for the voter?

Should a mail in ballot received after Election Day, have a legible postmark?

I have no issue with ballot harvesting or collection.

Signature should match, within the normal bounds that signatures match (mine is never exactly the same each time).

Last one - yes.

Now, do you think it's in the interests of democracy to try to reduce hours and days that polling locations are open in a naked attempt to depress participation?

If that's actually what's happening, of course I'm wrong

But the Democrats have been crying wolf on this for so long, at this point it's hard to separate truth from fiction.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/07/27/the-voter-suppression-myth/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2021, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 07:38:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 04:04:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 01:49:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2021, 10:21:23 PM
Arizona Republican, John Kavanaugh, reckons "quality" votes are important. Not every should be voting according to him.

I wonder does a "quality", "informed" voter believe all the baseless conspiracy theories the GOP are currently completely invested in, including Trumps stolen election fantasy? Is this hypothetical voter a Trump-before-country voter like so many Republicans?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwNmvAnVoAYCos6?format=jpg&name=small)

Its amazing how afraid the GOP are of electoral turnout. All over the US, they're trying to introduce laws even as anti-democratic as getting rid of early voting and making sure polls close very soon after regular working hours are over.

Do you consider ballot harvesting legitimate?

Should the signature on a mail in ballot match the signature that's on file for the voter?

Should a mail in ballot received after Election Day, have a legible postmark?

I have no issue with ballot harvesting or collection.

Signature should match, within the normal bounds that signatures match (mine is never exactly the same each time).

Last one - yes.

Now, do you think it's in the interests of democracy to try to reduce hours and days that polling locations are open in a naked attempt to depress participation?

If that's actually what's happening, of course I'm wrong

But the Democrats have been crying wolf on this for so long, at this point it's hard to separate truth from fiction.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/07/27/the-voter-suppression-myth/amp/

Yes, there are numerous efforts as we speak to make it harder for people to vote, including cutting early voting and cutting election day hours, and limiting access to mail voting, which was never a problem anywhere, including red states, until the great orange turd had his toddler tantrum because he lost. Iowa just passed a bill. Arizona is one of several proposing to make people notarize a f**king mail-in ballot. What is that if not an attempt to suppress participation? I'm sure there are a lot of notaries out there in Navajo reservation and Hispanic communities (and wait till you see - the GOP will be crying fraud and foul if the Dems organize notaries to go around and assist people). Another Arizona bill would allow the state legislature to overturn the decision of the people of the state. Years ago, Republicans would be justifiably railing against such totalitarian conduct.

In Georgia, we have yet another attempt to attack black voters and their "Souls to the Polls' tradition by restricting Sunday voting to one day.

And that's just a taste.

https://thebulwark.com/election-integrity-means-restriction/ (https://thebulwark.com/election-integrity-means-restriction/)
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/08/iowa-governor-kim-reynolds-signs-law-shortening-early-voting-closing-polls-earlier-election-day/6869317002/ (https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/08/iowa-governor-kim-reynolds-signs-law-shortening-early-voting-closing-polls-earlier-election-day/6869317002/)
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/voting-laws-roundup-february-2021 (https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/voting-laws-roundup-february-2021)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/10/most-extreme-voting-restrictions-proposed-by-gop/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/10/most-extreme-voting-restrictions-proposed-by-gop/)

The most ridiculous thing is, if Trump had won, NONE of this would be happening.

I hope the various Democratic and liberal organizations in these states tie these f**kers up in court for years.




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 12, 2021, 02:29:21 PM
The issue I see is that Democrats are very quick to cry voter suppression when in  oftentimes the things they are objecting to are identical to laws enacted by Democratic Secretaries of State in other states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2021, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 02:29:21 PM
The issue I see is that Democrats are very quick to cry voter suppression when in  oftentimes the things they are objecting to are identical to laws enacted by Democratic Secretaries of State in other states.

Well if the Dems are trying to do things like limit early and election day voting and demand notaries for mail-in ballots, fire away and show us where.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 12, 2021, 03:21:59 PM
Most countries vote on the day and you need ID to vote , there are some exceptions of course but why would someone want to vote 3 months in advance for a candidate and then have an issue come up and not be able change your vote , late votes should not be counted . 100m mail in ballot is not good .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2021, 03:42:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2021, 03:21:59 PM
Most countries vote on the day and you need ID to vote , there are some exceptions of course but why would someone want to vote 3 months in advance for a candidate and then have an issue come up and not be able change your vote , late votes should not be counted . 100m mail in ballot is not good .

Do most countries have their elections on a Tuesday when the vast majority of people are working?

If the time lag between voting and election day is the concern, why have caucuses and primaries up to 11 months in advance?

Just saying mail-in ballots are "not good" doesn't make it so. They've been used, successfully, for years all over the US (the orange p***k even voted that way himself). A few states even conduct ALL of their voting by mail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 12, 2021, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 02:29:21 PM
The issue I see is that Democrats are very quick to cry voter suppression when in  oftentimes the things they are objecting to are identical to laws enacted by Democratic Secretaries of State in other states.

Well if the Dems are trying to do things like limit early and election day voting and demand notaries for mail-in ballots, fire away and show us where.

So in MA, which has a Democratic Secretary of State, mail in ballots have to be received by Election Day. When Republicans tried to advocate for that in PA they were accused of voter suppression.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 12, 2021, 05:56:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 02:29:21 PM
The issue I see is that Democrats are very quick to cry voter suppression when in  oftentimes the things they are objecting to are identical to laws enacted by Democratic Secretaries of State in other states.

Well if the Dems are trying to do things like limit early and election day voting and demand notaries for mail-in ballots, fire away and show us where.

So in MA, which has a Democratic Secretary of State, mail in ballots have to be received by Election Day. When Republicans tried to advocate for that in PA they were accused of voter suppression.

Are you saying that the GOP are not working to suppress minority voting?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2021, 06:32:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 02:29:21 PM
The issue I see is that Democrats are very quick to cry voter suppression when in  oftentimes the things they are objecting to are identical to laws enacted by Democratic Secretaries of State in other states.

Well if the Dems are trying to do things like limit early and election day voting and demand notaries for mail-in ballots, fire away and show us where.

So in MA, which has a Democratic Secretary of State, mail in ballots have to be received by Election Day. When Republicans tried to advocate for that in PA they were accused of voter suppression.

Advocate? In PA, they tried, after the rules had been set to facilitate voting in a pandemic year, and after the votes had been cast, to disqualify those votes and created a big, false stink that there was fraud taking place.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2021, 06:58:10 PM
I would add, no one is saying that Dems can't be hypocritical or don't politicize issues.

But there is only one side that is hellbent on making it harder to vote and easier to illegitimately suppress the vote on the rationale that turnout is inversely related to their party's success.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 12, 2021, 07:23:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 06:32:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 02:29:21 PM
The issue I see is that Democrats are very quick to cry voter suppression when in  oftentimes the things they are objecting to are identical to laws enacted by Democratic Secretaries of State in other states.

Well if the Dems are trying to do things like limit early and election day voting and demand notaries for mail-in ballots, fire away and show us where.

So in MA, which has a Democratic Secretary of State, mail in ballots have to be received by Election Day. When Republicans tried to advocate for that in PA they were accused of voter suppression.

Advocate? In PA, they tried, after the rules had been set to facilitate voting in a pandemic year, and after the votes had been cast, to disqualify those votes and created a big, false stink that there was fraud taking place.

Rules set by who?

And the lawsuits began well before the election not after the votes were already cast

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/922411176/supreme-court-rules-pennsylvania-can-count-ballots-received-after-election-day

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2021, 08:00:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 07:23:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 06:32:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 02:29:21 PM
The issue I see is that Democrats are very quick to cry voter suppression when in  oftentimes the things they are objecting to are identical to laws enacted by Democratic Secretaries of State in other states.

Well if the Dems are trying to do things like limit early and election day voting and demand notaries for mail-in ballots, fire away and show us where.

So in MA, which has a Democratic Secretary of State, mail in ballots have to be received by Election Day. When Republicans tried to advocate for that in PA they were accused of voter suppression.

Advocate? In PA, they tried, after the rules had been set to facilitate voting in a pandemic year, and after the votes had been cast, to disqualify those votes and created a big, false stink that there was fraud taking place.

Rules set by who?

And the lawsuits began well before the election not after the votes were already cast

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/922411176/supreme-court-rules-pennsylvania-can-count-ballots-received-after-election-day

The very link you posted shows they lost, at the Supreme Court level, in October. There's no recourse beyond that.

Yet they kept the charade going for Trump's benefit, and tried, after the fact, to get the votes of those who had voted by the rules in PA deemed illegitimate i.e. disenfranchise those voters. It was basically a "f**k you, we don't care that the Supreme Court ruled against us and you voted according to the rules they deemed constitutional. We're going to try to invalidate your vote anyway".

You can't turn around, AFTER people have voted by court-approved rules, and try to invalidate the votes they cast in good faith. Or at least not in a democracy.

But that's what the GOP now is after the takeover by Trump and his cult. They are the anti-democratic party (small "d"). If wide voter participation diminishes their chances, well then wider voter participation is, by definition, illegitimate.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 12, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
You said they sued after the election and after the votes had been cast

That is incorrect....they sued before the election

And based on what the PA Supreme Court ruled they were dead right to sue


"In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary."

You, yourself said that ballots received after the election should have a valid postmark
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2021, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
You said they sued after the election and after the votes had been cast

That is incorrect....they sued before the election

And based on what the PA Supreme Court ruled they were dead right to sue


"In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary."

You, yourself said that ballots received after the election should have a valid postmark

I said they "tried... to disqualify the votes " after the election.

Which is exactly what they did, despite the rules having already been approved.

And how many votes were in question over the postmark issue?

Was it the millions that Trump and Giuliani were suing left right and centre for weeks to get thrown out?

You'd be better off picking a better hill to die on than the GOP conduct in PA the election just past.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:05:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2021, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
You said they sued after the election and after the votes had been cast

That is incorrect....they sued before the election

And based on what the PA Supreme Court ruled they were dead right to sue


"In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary."

You, yourself said that ballots received after the election should have a valid postmark

I said they "tried... to disqualify the votes " after the election.

Which is exactly what they did, despite the rules having already been approved.

And how many votes were in question over the postmark issue?

Was it the millions that Trump and Giuliani were suing left right and centre for weeks to get thrown out?

You'd be better off picking a better hill to die on than the GOP conduct in PA the election just past.



The standards the Republicans were arguing for before the election were identical to standards for mail in ballots that Democratic Secretaries of State had agreed upon in several other states.

The Democrats brought a lawsuit arguing that ballots with non matching signatures, missing/illegible postmarks should be counted

You yourself said the signatures should match and the postmark should be legible.

I guess following that logic, you are in favor of voter suppression
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 13, 2021, 04:41:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:05:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2021, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
You said they sued after the election and after the votes had been cast

That is incorrect....they sued before the election

And based on what the PA Supreme Court ruled they were dead right to sue


"In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary."

You, yourself said that ballots received after the election should have a valid postmark

I said they "tried... to disqualify the votes " after the election.

Which is exactly what they did, despite the rules having already been approved.

And how many votes were in question over the postmark issue?

Was it the millions that Trump and Giuliani were suing left right and centre for weeks to get thrown out?

You'd be better off picking a better hill to die on than the GOP conduct in PA the election just past.



The standards the Republicans were arguing for before the election were identical to standards for mail in ballots that Democratic Secretaries of State had agreed upon in several other states.

What states and by which democratic Secretaries of State. And the context in which they were levied please?.

The Democrats brought a lawsuit arguing that ballots with non matching signatures, missing/illegible postmarks should be counted

Examples please

You yourself said the signatures should match and the postmark should be legible

BTW what logical conclusion show one come to when you are addressing someone with the handle Whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:07:15 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 13, 2021, 04:41:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:05:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2021, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
You said they sued after the election and after the votes had been cast

That is incorrect....they sued before the election

And based on what the PA Supreme Court ruled they were dead right to sue


"In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary."

You, yourself said that ballots received after the election should have a valid postmark

I said they "tried... to disqualify the votes " after the election.

Which is exactly what they did, despite the rules having already been approved.

And how many votes were in question over the postmark issue?

Was it the millions that Trump and Giuliani were suing left right and centre for weeks to get thrown out?

You'd be better off picking a better hill to die on than the GOP conduct in PA the election just past.



The standards the Republicans were arguing for before the election were identical to standards for mail in ballots that Democratic Secretaries of State had agreed upon in several other states.

What states and by which democratic Secretaries of State. And the context in which they were levied please?.

The Democrats brought a lawsuit arguing that ballots with non matching signatures, missing/illegible postmarks should be counted

Examples please

You yourself said the signatures should match and the postmark should be legible

BTW what logical conclusion show one come to when you are addressing someone with the handle Whitey.

Answer to your first question.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/absentee-and-mail-voting-policies-in-effect-for-the-2020-election.aspx

Answer to your second question regarding signatures. 2 groups who fronted the lawsuit are heavily affiliated with the Democratic Party. There would be 100% crossover in membership

https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-election-2020-pittsburgh-elections-presidential-elections-fc464c287c18823ff57fedc13facf7e5

The ruling regarding postmarks was issues in a response to a lawsuit taken by Democrats

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/922411176/supreme-court-rules-pennsylvania-can-count-ballots-received-after-election-day


My username has to do with the color of my hair
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:26:15 PM
And now all the hysteria the Democrats and their pals in the media ginned up over the post office last summer and fall makes sense as it was part of the narrative they needed to spin for these extensions as to when ballots would be accepted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2021, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:05:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2021, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
You said they sued after the election and after the votes had been cast

That is incorrect....they sued before the election

And based on what the PA Supreme Court ruled they were dead right to sue


"In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary."

You, yourself said that ballots received after the election should have a valid postmark

I said they "tried... to disqualify the votes " after the election.

Which is exactly what they did, despite the rules having already been approved.

And how many votes were in question over the postmark issue?

Was it the millions that Trump and Giuliani were suing left right and centre for weeks to get thrown out?

You'd be better off picking a better hill to die on than the GOP conduct in PA the election just past.



The standards the Republicans were arguing for before the election were identical to standards for mail in ballots that Democratic Secretaries of State had agreed upon in several other states.

The Democrats brought a lawsuit arguing that ballots with non matching signatures, missing/illegible postmarks should be counted

You yourself said the signatures should match and the postmark should be legible.

I guess following that logic, you are in favor of voter suppression

And the measures the GOP are attacking have already been in place in many red states for years.

On the signatures and postmarks, yes, I did say that.

Without thinking too much about it, beyond saying that variations in signature must be taken into account.

I hadn't thought about people who are disabled, injured or otherwise unable to normally replicate their signature, which is what the groups in PA were arguing for when they said that questions about the perceived validity of the signature, ALONE, should not be enough to invalidate a vote. Especially in a state where there were/are no standardized, objective protocols for assessing signatures .

On the postmarks, if the ballot is received by the Friday deadline and the postmark is smudged for whatever reason, chances are that is was mailed by the Tuesday, at least given my own personal experience of the US Postal Service. I don't see much of an issue as long as everything else about the ballot is legit. Is it fair to discount someone's vote because of the failures of USPS and their processes? Obviously its not hard to imagine a scenario where there is a small margin and a similar number of smudged postmarks in question. But  we're talking about a tiny number of votes relative to the margin in PA. Trump and Giuliani still tried to undermine the entire election and have ALL of the PA vote thrown out. They tried to have the votes of those who voted by mail thrown out. They tried to have the votes of all those who submitted late ballots thrown out. They didn't care about a few smudged postmarks or a few questionable signature matches.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2021, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:26:15 PM
And now all the hysteria the Democrats and their pals in the media ginned up over the post office last summer and fall makes sense as it was part of the narrative they needed to spin for these extensions as to when ballots would be accepted

Party encouraging their voters to avail of absentee voting in presidential election in pandemic year is concerned by actions of Trump donor in charge of postal service in presidential election where Trump is screaming about absentee voting fraud shocker.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2021, 01:13:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2021, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:05:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2021, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
You said they sued after the election and after the votes had been cast

That is incorrect....they sued before the election

And based on what the PA Supreme Court ruled they were dead right to sue


"In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary."

You, yourself said that ballots received after the election should have a valid postmark

I said they "tried... to disqualify the votes " after the election.

Which is exactly what they did, despite the rules having already been approved.

And how many votes were in question over the postmark issue?

Was it the millions that Trump and Giuliani were suing left right and centre for weeks to get thrown out?

You'd be better off picking a better hill to die on than the GOP conduct in PA the election just past.



The standards the Republicans were arguing for before the election were identical to standards for mail in ballots that Democratic Secretaries of State had agreed upon in several other states.

The Democrats brought a lawsuit arguing that ballots with non matching signatures, missing/illegible postmarks should be counted

You yourself said the signatures should match and the postmark should be legible.

I guess following that logic, you are in favor of voter suppression

And the measures the GOP are attacking have already been in place in many red states for years.

On the signatures and postmarks, yes, I did say that.

Without thinking too much about it, beyond saying that variations in signature must be taken into account.

I hadn't thought about people who are disabled, injured or otherwise unable to normally replicate their signature, which is what the groups in PA were arguing for when they said that questions about the perceived validity of the signature, ALONE, should not be enough to invalidate a vote. Especially in a state where there were/are no standardized, objective protocols for assessing signatures .

On the postmarks, if the ballot is received by the Friday deadline and the postmark is smudged for whatever reason, chances are that is was mailed by the Tuesday, at least given my own personal experience of the US Postal Service. I don't see much of an issue as long as everything else about the ballot is legit. Is it fair to discount someone's vote because of the failures of USPS and their processes? Obviously its not hard to imagine a scenario where there is a small margin and a similar number of smudged postmarks in question. But  we're talking about a tiny number of votes relative to the margin in PA. Trump and Giuliani still tried to undermine the entire election and have ALL of the PA vote thrown out. They tried to have the votes of those who voted by mail thrown out. They tried to have the votes of all those who submitted late ballots thrown out. They didn't care about a few smudged postmarks or a few questionable signature matches.

Smudged or MISSING postmarks

Should ballots with missing postmarks be accepted?

Why would you sue to have ballots with missing postmarks counted if you weren't planning to cheat?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2021, 01:17:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 01:13:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2021, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:05:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2021, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
You said they sued after the election and after the votes had been cast

That is incorrect....they sued before the election

And based on what the PA Supreme Court ruled they were dead right to sue


"In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary."

You, yourself said that ballots received after the election should have a valid postmark

I said they "tried... to disqualify the votes " after the election.

Which is exactly what they did, despite the rules having already been approved.

And how many votes were in question over the postmark issue?

Was it the millions that Trump and Giuliani were suing left right and centre for weeks to get thrown out?

You'd be better off picking a better hill to die on than the GOP conduct in PA the election just past.



The standards the Republicans were arguing for before the election were identical to standards for mail in ballots that Democratic Secretaries of State had agreed upon in several other states.

The Democrats brought a lawsuit arguing that ballots with non matching signatures, missing/illegible postmarks should be counted

You yourself said the signatures should match and the postmark should be legible.

I guess following that logic, you are in favor of voter suppression

And the measures the GOP are attacking have already been in place in many red states for years.

On the signatures and postmarks, yes, I did say that.

Without thinking too much about it, beyond saying that variations in signature must be taken into account.

I hadn't thought about people who are disabled, injured or otherwise unable to normally replicate their signature, which is what the groups in PA were arguing for when they said that questions about the perceived validity of the signature, ALONE, should not be enough to invalidate a vote. Especially in a state where there were/are no standardized, objective protocols for assessing signatures .

On the postmarks, if the ballot is received by the Friday deadline and the postmark is smudged for whatever reason, chances are that is was mailed by the Tuesday, at least given my own personal experience of the US Postal Service. I don't see much of an issue as long as everything else about the ballot is legit. Is it fair to discount someone's vote because of the failures of USPS and their processes? Obviously its not hard to imagine a scenario where there is a small margin and a similar number of smudged postmarks in question. But  we're talking about a tiny number of votes relative to the margin in PA. Trump and Giuliani still tried to undermine the entire election and have ALL of the PA vote thrown out. They tried to have the votes of those who voted by mail thrown out. They tried to have the votes of all those who submitted late ballots thrown out. They didn't care about a few smudged postmarks or a few questionable signature matches.

Smudged or MISSING postmarks

Should ballots with missing postmarks be accepted?

Why would you sue to have ballots with missing postmarks counted if you weren't planning to cheat?

I don't know.

I would have to have knowledge of what the normal rate of missing postmarks is on ballots i.e. how serious of a concern it is that post might be delivered without the machine having left a postmark.

I presume you know this given your certainty that its all a ploy to somehow cheat?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2021, 01:35:03 PM
A party who collaborated with Russian intelligence to  fabricate a dossier, would be well capable of cheating
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2021, 01:38:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 01:35:03 PM
A party who collaborated with Russian intelligence to  fabricate a dossier, would be well capable of cheating

So you don't have any details or background on the issue. Just your usual loose use of terms and poorly-based certainty when it comes to the motives of liberals and Democrats.

Suit yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2021, 01:38:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 01:35:03 PM
A party who collaborated with Russian intelligence to  fabricate a dossier, would be well capable of cheating

So you don't have any details or background on the issue. Just your usual loose use of terms and poorly-based certainty when it comes to the motives of liberals and Democrats.

Suit yourself.

Well they did collaborate with Russian intelligence via Steele

And they did concoct a dossier

And they did feed it through back channels to rogue FBI agents who have since been fired/demoted/prosecuted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2021, 02:37:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2021, 01:38:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 01:35:03 PM
A party who collaborated with Russian intelligence to  fabricate a dossier, would be well capable of cheating

So you don't have any details or background on the issue. Just your usual loose use of terms and poorly-based certainty when it comes to the motives of liberals and Democrats.

Suit yourself.

Well they did collaborate with Russian intelligence via Steele

And they did concoct a dossier

And they did feed it through back channels to rogue FBI agents who have since been fired/demoted/prosecuted

No, they hired Steele, a private intelligence investigator with long-standing intelligence ties in Russia to continue the work started earlier by a conservative group. And he was the one to first approach the FBI and British intelligence with the concerns raised, having worked with them on the FIFA investigations in previous years.

Its like Groundhog Day going over the same old shite over and over again with you.

But by all means, if you have actual evidence that the DNC or Clinton campaign "concocted" the dossier and decided which FBI agents would handle it, go ahead and present it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2021, 03:00:54 PM
 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/the-fbis-dossier-deceit-11595027626



WSJ OPINION  REVIEW & OUTLOOK
The FBI's Dossier Deceit
New evidence that the bureau knew the Russia info was phony in 2017.
The Justice Department's release of documents from the Obama Administration's 2016-17 Trump-Russia investigation is beginning to paint a picture, and the more we learn the worse the FBI looks.

The latest evidence comes from Friday's declassification via the Senate Judiciary Committee of the FBI's interviews, over three days in January 2017, with the primary source for the infamous Steele dossier. The bureau used the dossier's accusations as the basis for four warrants to surveil Trump aide Carter Page during the 2016 campaign and early months of the Trump Presidency. The 57 pages of notes from the source interviews make clear that the FBI knew the dossier was junk as early as January 2017.


ustice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz disclosed some of this in his December report on the FBI's surveillance warrants, but the interview transcript adds more color—as in red for embarrassment.

Former British spy Christopher Steele, whose dirt-digging was financed by the Hillary Clinton campaign, based nearly all of his dossier allegations on information from one unidentified "primary subsource." The FBI didn't corroborate the Steele dossier's claims prior to its first application to surveil Mr. Page in October 2016, and it didn't get around to interviewing the source until nearly four months later.

When agents finally got around to it, the source made clear that there was no factual basis to the dossier's claims. The source noted he had mainly provided business intelligence to Mr. Steele, so he was "uncomfortable" when Mr. Steele in March 2016 asked him to investigate Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, and later Donald Trump. The source said his friends and contacts were "too far removed" from these matters, but that he "felt like he had to report something back to Steele."

The source's attorney insists the source didn't have a "network" so much as a "social circle." The source didn't take notes, and he couldn't remember which information came from whom. He acknowledged that he even passed along information derived from a telephone call from an anonymous "Russian male" who "never identified himself."

The source said he warned Mr. Steele that his info was "rumor and speculation." The FBI interviewer writes: "Steele pushed [the source] to try and either follow-up with people or corroborate the reporting but [the source] wasn't able to do so."

Friday's disclosure also includes a February 2017 document in which leading FBI investigator Peter Strzok acknowledges the dossier is a bust, and that the FBI still had no evidence of any wrongdoing. The New York Times on Feb. 14, 2017 published a story with this headline: "Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence."

Mr. Strzok wrote an internal FBI analysis highlighting the story's numerous inaccuracies, explaining "we are unaware of ANY Trump advisors engaging in conversations with Russian intelligence officials." He also acknowledges: "Recent interviews" reveal "Steele may not be in a position to judge the reliability of his subsource network."


The FBI interview with Mr. Steele's source should have put an end to the surveillance and broader investigation. Instead, the FBI continued to tout Mr. Steele as a reliable source as it renewed its requests for surveillance warrants. Former FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe expanded the investigation to include the President, and former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller as special counsel.

Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham gets credit for this declassification, and in an interview Friday he told us his next step will be "to go from the bottom of the pyramid to the top and find out just how many people were informed" about the source interview. "Those who knew about this exculpatory information, or should have known, and yet who continued—they are in legal jeopardy," Mr. Graham said.

Democrats and the press corps that touted the phony Steele dossier will say this is a pursuit of a conspiracy theory, but it's not a theory. The more evidence that is made public, the clearer it becomes that the Steele dossier and collusion narrative were dirty political tricks that became abuses of power
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 15, 2021, 03:04:49 PM
He's still going on about Steele - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2021, 03:26:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 03:00:54 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/the-fbis-dossier-deceit-11595027626



WSJ OPINION  REVIEW & OUTLOOK
The FBI's Dossier Deceit
New evidence that the bureau knew the Russia info was phony in 2017.
The Justice Department's release of documents from the Obama Administration's 2016-17 Trump-Russia investigation is beginning to paint a picture, and the more we learn the worse the FBI looks.

The latest evidence comes from Friday's declassification via the Senate Judiciary Committee of the FBI's interviews, over three days in January 2017, with the primary source for the infamous Steele dossier. The bureau used the dossier's accusations as the basis for four warrants to surveil Trump aide Carter Page during the 2016 campaign and early months of the Trump Presidency. The 57 pages of notes from the source interviews make clear that the FBI knew the dossier was junk as early as January 2017.


ustice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz disclosed some of this in his December report on the FBI's surveillance warrants, but the interview transcript adds more color—as in red for embarrassment.

Former British spy Christopher Steele, whose dirt-digging was financed by the Hillary Clinton campaign, based nearly all of his dossier allegations on information from one unidentified "primary subsource." The FBI didn't corroborate the Steele dossier's claims prior to its first application to surveil Mr. Page in October 2016, and it didn't get around to interviewing the source until nearly four months later.

When agents finally got around to it, the source made clear that there was no factual basis to the dossier's claims. The source noted he had mainly provided business intelligence to Mr. Steele, so he was "uncomfortable" when Mr. Steele in March 2016 asked him to investigate Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, and later Donald Trump. The source said his friends and contacts were "too far removed" from these matters, but that he "felt like he had to report something back to Steele."

The source's attorney insists the source didn't have a "network" so much as a "social circle." The source didn't take notes, and he couldn't remember which information came from whom. He acknowledged that he even passed along information derived from a telephone call from an anonymous "Russian male" who "never identified himself."

The source said he warned Mr. Steele that his info was "rumor and speculation." The FBI interviewer writes: "Steele pushed [the source] to try and either follow-up with people or corroborate the reporting but [the source] wasn't able to do so."

Friday's disclosure also includes a February 2017 document in which leading FBI investigator Peter Strzok acknowledges the dossier is a bust, and that the FBI still had no evidence of any wrongdoing. The New York Times on Feb. 14, 2017 published a story with this headline: "Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence."

Mr. Strzok wrote an internal FBI analysis highlighting the story's numerous inaccuracies, explaining "we are unaware of ANY Trump advisors engaging in conversations with Russian intelligence officials." He also acknowledges: "Recent interviews" reveal "Steele may not be in a position to judge the reliability of his subsource network."


The FBI interview with Mr. Steele's source should have put an end to the surveillance and broader investigation. Instead, the FBI continued to tout Mr. Steele as a reliable source as it renewed its requests for surveillance warrants. Former FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe expanded the investigation to include the President, and former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller as special counsel.

Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham gets credit for this declassification, and in an interview Friday he told us his next step will be "to go from the bottom of the pyramid to the top and find out just how many people were informed" about the source interview. "Those who knew about this exculpatory information, or should have known, and yet who continued—they are in legal jeopardy," Mr. Graham said.

Democrats and the press corps that touted the phony Steele dossier will say this is a pursuit of a conspiracy theory, but it's not a theory. The more evidence that is made public, the clearer it becomes that the Steele dossier and collusion narrative were dirty political tricks that became abuses of power

Nothing in there about the DNC/Clinton "concocting" the dossier and feeding it "through back channels to rogue FBI agents".

Nothing in there about the other sources that aroused FBI concerns in the summer of 2016 about connections between Russia and the Trump campaign (Papadopoulos, wikileaks for example)?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2021, 04:11:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2021, 03:26:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 03:00:54 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/the-fbis-dossier-deceit-11595027626



WSJ OPINION  REVIEW & OUTLOOK
The FBI's Dossier Deceit
New evidence that the bureau knew the Russia info was phony in 2017.
The Justice Department's release of documents from the Obama Administration's 2016-17 Trump-Russia investigation is beginning to paint a picture, and the more we learn the worse the FBI looks.

The latest evidence comes from Friday's declassification via the Senate Judiciary Committee of the FBI's interviews, over three days in January 2017, with the primary source for the infamous Steele dossier. The bureau used the dossier's accusations as the basis for four warrants to surveil Trump aide Carter Page during the 2016 campaign and early months of the Trump Presidency. The 57 pages of notes from the source interviews make clear that the FBI knew the dossier was junk as early as January 2017.


ustice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz disclosed some of this in his December report on the FBI's surveillance warrants, but the interview transcript adds more color—as in red for embarrassment.

Former British spy Christopher Steele, whose dirt-digging was financed by the Hillary Clinton campaign, based nearly all of his dossier allegations on information from one unidentified "primary subsource." The FBI didn't corroborate the Steele dossier's claims prior to its first application to surveil Mr. Page in October 2016, and it didn't get around to interviewing the source until nearly four months later.

When agents finally got around to it, the source made clear that there was no factual basis to the dossier's claims. The source noted he had mainly provided business intelligence to Mr. Steele, so he was "uncomfortable" when Mr. Steele in March 2016 asked him to investigate Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, and later Donald Trump. The source said his friends and contacts were "too far removed" from these matters, but that he "felt like he had to report something back to Steele."

The source's attorney insists the source didn't have a "network" so much as a "social circle." The source didn't take notes, and he couldn't remember which information came from whom. He acknowledged that he even passed along information derived from a telephone call from an anonymous "Russian male" who "never identified himself."

The source said he warned Mr. Steele that his info was "rumor and speculation." The FBI interviewer writes: "Steele pushed [the source] to try and either follow-up with people or corroborate the reporting but [the source] wasn't able to do so."

Friday's disclosure also includes a February 2017 document in which leading FBI investigator Peter Strzok acknowledges the dossier is a bust, and that the FBI still had no evidence of any wrongdoing. The New York Times on Feb. 14, 2017 published a story with this headline: "Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence."

Mr. Strzok wrote an internal FBI analysis highlighting the story's numerous inaccuracies, explaining "we are unaware of ANY Trump advisors engaging in conversations with Russian intelligence officials." He also acknowledges: "Recent interviews" reveal "Steele may not be in a position to judge the reliability of his subsource network."


The FBI interview with Mr. Steele's source should have put an end to the surveillance and broader investigation. Instead, the FBI continued to tout Mr. Steele as a reliable source as it renewed its requests for surveillance warrants. Former FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe expanded the investigation to include the President, and former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller as special counsel.

Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham gets credit for this declassification, and in an interview Friday he told us his next step will be "to go from the bottom of the pyramid to the top and find out just how many people were informed" about the source interview. "Those who knew about this exculpatory information, or should have known, and yet who continued—they are in legal jeopardy," Mr. Graham said.

Democrats and the press corps that touted the phony Steele dossier will say this is a pursuit of a conspiracy theory, but it's not a theory. The more evidence that is made public, the clearer it becomes that the Steele dossier and collusion narrative were dirty political tricks that became abuses of power

Nothing in there about the DNC/Clinton "concocting" the dossier and feeding it "through back channels to rogue FBI agents".

Nothing in there about the other sources that aroused FBI concerns in the summer of 2016 about connections between Russia and the Trump campaign (Papadopoulos, wikileaks for example)?

You just can ever ever admit that the Democrats did anything wrong can you?

Former British spy Christopher Steele, whose dirt-digging was financed by the Hillary Clinton campaign, based nearly all of his dossier allegations on information from one unidentified "primary subsource."


The FBI interview with Mr. Steele's source should have put an end to the surveillance and broader investigation. Instead, the FBI continued to tout Mr. Steele as a reliable source as it renewed its requests for surveillance warrants. Former FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe expanded the investigation to include the President, and former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller as special counsel.

The more evidence that is made public, the clearer it becomes that the Steele dossier and collusion narrative were dirty political tricks that became abuses of power

I can put up more evidence of them shopping the dossier-ie Bruce and Nellie Ohr, but what's the point
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2021, 05:44:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 04:11:46 PM


You just can ever ever admit that the Democrats did anything wrong can you?


Sorry, but that is not the case.

You are the one who is ALWAYS hyping up the worst possible interpretation of anything liberals or Democrats do, whether or not the facts support it, and ALWAYS finding excuses for stuff Trump and the GOP do because of the media or the Dems are worse.

The Dems are a normal political party, with all of the hypocrisy and corruption that goes with that. I've never denied that. I'm not here posting feats of mental gymnastics trying to excuse Andrew Cuomo's current predicament (not much word about, curiously, from you boys!) or defending some Dem politician caught with their hand in the till.

If only the GOP was a normal political party.

Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 04:11:46 PM
Former British spy Christopher Steele, whose dirt-digging was financed by the Hillary Clinton campaign, based nearly all of his dossier allegations on information from one unidentified "primary subsource."


The FBI interview with Mr. Steele's source should have put an end to the surveillance and broader investigation. Instead, the FBI continued to tout Mr. Steele as a reliable source as it renewed its requests for surveillance warrants. Former FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe expanded the investigation to include the President, and former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller as special counsel.

The more evidence that is made public, the clearer it becomes that the Steele dossier and collusion narrative were dirty political tricks that became abuses of power

I can put up more evidence of them shopping the dossier-ie Bruce and Nellie Ohr, but what's the point

I'm not disputing your interpretation of what the FBI should or shouldn't have done regarding Steele or Steele's supposedly nefarious contacts with Ohr which Trump was tweeting about at one point. As far as I'm concerned, the GOP have thrown tonnes of Justice Dept and congressional time and resources into investigating all of that over the past few years, with not a lot to show for it. We'll see what your man Durham comes up with, and then, I'm sure, have a discussion of what it all shows and see what the final count is in terms of who ends up in front of a judge.

My issue is your insistence that this is all some Democratic party conspiracy, when the evidence is yet to show that. Its perfectly plausible that the Dems hired this guy, he found shit (whether he was fed or not) that he found troubling, and he went to the FBI with it.

The only reason we're discussing this today is because you think that the liberal organizations in PA suing over ballot postmarks had to be an effort to cheat because, well, that's what liberals and Dems do. No evidence, no analysis of what exactly their reasoning was. It had to be cheating because... look at the Steele dossier.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
I see the WaPo are covering themselves in glory again.....no better than Fox News or Breitbart imho


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-call-georgia-investigator/2021/01/09/7a55c7fa-51cf-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html#click=https://t.co/8We1LtgEhS


correction: Two months after publication of this story, the Georgia secretary of state released an audio recording of President Donald Trump's December phone call with the state's top elections investigator. The recording revealed that The Post misquoted Trump's comments on the call, based on information provided by a source. Trump did not tell the investigator to "find the fraud" or say she would be "a national hero" if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find "dishonesty" there. He also told her that she had "the most important job in the country right now." A story about the recording can be found here. The headline and text of this story have been corrected to remove quotes misattributed to Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 15, 2021, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
I see the WaPo are covering themselves in glory again.....no better than Fox News or Breitbart imho


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-call-georgia-investigator/2021/01/09/7a55c7fa-51cf-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html#click=https://t.co/8We1LtgEhS


correction: Two months after publication of this story, the Georgia secretary of state released an audio recording of President Donald Trump's December phone call with the state's top elections investigator. The recording revealed that The Post misquoted Trump's comments on the call, based on information provided by a source. Trump did not tell the investigator to "find the fraud" or say she would be "a national hero" if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find "dishonesty" there. He also told her that she had "the most important job in the country right now." A story about the recording can be found here. The headline and text of this story have been corrected to remove quotes misattributed to Trump.
bit late now that the loons have taken over the asylum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2021, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
I see the WaPo are covering themselves in glory again.....no better than Fox News or Breitbart imho


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-call-georgia-investigator/2021/01/09/7a55c7fa-51cf-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html#click=https://t.co/8We1LtgEhS


correction: Two months after publication of this story, the Georgia secretary of state released an audio recording of President Donald Trump's December phone call with the state's top elections investigator. The recording revealed that The Post misquoted Trump's comments on the call, based on information provided by a source. Trump did not tell the investigator to "find the fraud" or say she would be "a national hero" if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find "dishonesty" there. He also told her that she had "the most important job in the country right now." A story about the recording can be found here. The headline and text of this story have been corrected to remove quotes misattributed to Trump.

So instead of "finding the fraud", she would find "dishonesty" and instead of being a "national hero" she had "the most important job in the country right now" finding the fraud dishonesty.

That puts a very strikingly different tone on the story there whitey. ;D ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2021, 06:51:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 15, 2021, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
I see the WaPo are covering themselves in glory again.....no better than Fox News or Breitbart imho


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-call-georgia-investigator/2021/01/09/7a55c7fa-51cf-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html#click=https://t.co/8We1LtgEhS


correction: Two months after publication of this story, the Georgia secretary of state released an audio recording of President Donald Trump's December phone call with the state's top elections investigator. The recording revealed that The Post misquoted Trump's comments on the call, based on information provided by a source. Trump did not tell the investigator to "find the fraud" or say she would be "a national hero" if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find "dishonesty" there. He also told her that she had "the most important job in the country right now." A story about the recording can be found here. The headline and text of this story have been corrected to remove quotes misattributed to Trump.
bit late now that the loons have taken over the asylum.

Loons with high approval ratings. The country is liking what it is seeing so far. 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 15, 2021, 07:46:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2021, 06:51:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 15, 2021, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
I see the WaPo are covering themselves in glory again.....no better than Fox News or Breitbart imho


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-call-georgia-investigator/2021/01/09/7a55c7fa-51cf-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html#click=https://t.co/8We1LtgEhS


correction: Two months after publication of this story, the Georgia secretary of state released an audio recording of President Donald Trump's December phone call with the state's top elections investigator. The recording revealed that The Post misquoted Trump's comments on the call, based on information provided by a source. Trump did not tell the investigator to "find the fraud" or say she would be "a national hero" if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find "dishonesty" there. He also told her that she had "the most important job in the country right now." A story about the recording can be found here. The headline and text of this story have been corrected to remove quotes misattributed to Trump.
bit late now that the loons have taken over the asylum.

Loons with high approval ratings. The country is liking what it is seeing so far. 8)
what policies are popular?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2021, 07:51:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2021, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
I see the WaPo are covering themselves in glory again.....no better than Fox News or Breitbart imho


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-call-georgia-investigator/2021/01/09/7a55c7fa-51cf-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html#click=https://t.co/8We1LtgEhS


correction: Two months after publication of this story, the Georgia secretary of state released an audio recording of President Donald Trump's December phone call with the state's top elections investigator. The recording revealed that The Post misquoted Trump's comments on the call, based on information provided by a source. Trump did not tell the investigator to "find the fraud" or say she would be "a national hero" if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find "dishonesty" there. He also told her that she had "the most important job in the country right now." A story about the recording can be found here. The headline and text of this story have been corrected to remove quotes misattributed to Trump.

So instead of "finding the fraud", she would find "dishonesty" and instead of being a "national hero" she had "the most important job in the country right now" finding the fraud dishonesty.

That puts a very strikingly different tone on the story there whitey. ;D ::)

Funny how 100% of these mistakes fall one way isn't it?

And yes....big bloody difference between what was initially "reported" and what was actually said on the call.

Not surprised you're poo pooing it though, given you fell hook line and sinker for every debunked Democratic fraud allegation surrounding the 2016 election

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 15, 2021, 09:19:31 PM
FEMA heading for the southern border to try help in the humanitarian disaster joe Biden's comments and policy caused .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on March 15, 2021, 11:59:48 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 12, 2021, 05:56:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 02:29:21 PM
The issue I see is that Democrats are very quick to cry voter suppression when in  oftentimes the things they are objecting to are identical to laws enacted by Democratic Secretaries of State in other states.

Well if the Dems are trying to do things like limit early and election day voting and demand notaries for mail-in ballots, fire away and show us where.

So in MA, which has a Democratic Secretary of State, mail in ballots have to be received by Election Day. When Republicans tried to advocate for that in PA they were accused of voter suppression.

Are you saying that the GOP are not working to suppress minority voting?

Florida 1940

(https://digitalcollections.library.gsu.edu/digital/api/singleitem/image/SKennedy/13383/default.jpg?highlightTerms=)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 16, 2021, 04:39:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:07:15 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 13, 2021, 04:41:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 13, 2021, 03:05:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 13, 2021, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 12, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
You said they sued after the election and after the votes had been cast

That is incorrect....they sued before the election

And based on what the PA Supreme Court ruled they were dead right to sue


"In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary."

You, yourself said that ballots received after the election should have a valid postmark

I said they "tried... to disqualify the votes " after the election.

Which is exactly what they did, despite the rules having already been approved.

And how many votes were in question over the postmark issue?

Was it the millions that Trump and Giuliani were suing left right and centre for weeks to get thrown out?

You'd be better off picking a better hill to die on than the GOP conduct in PA the election just past.



The standards the Republicans were arguing for before the election were identical to standards for mail in ballots that Democratic Secretaries of State had agreed upon in several other states.

What states and by which democratic Secretaries of State. And the context in which they were levied please?.

The Democrats brought a lawsuit arguing that ballots with non matching signatures, missing/illegible postmarks should be counted

Examples please

You yourself said the signatures should match and the postmark should be legible

BTW what logical conclusion show one come to when you are addressing someone with the handle Whitey.

Answer to your first question.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/absentee-and-mail-voting-policies-in-effect-for-the-2020-election.aspx

Answer to your second question regarding signatures. 2 groups who fronted the lawsuit are heavily affiliated with the Democratic Party. There would be 100% crossover in membership

https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-election-2020-pittsburgh-elections-presidential-elections-fc464c287c18823ff57fedc13facf7e5

The ruling regarding postmarks was issues in a response to a lawsuit taken by Democrats

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/922411176/supreme-court-rules-pennsylvania-can-count-ballots-received-after-election-day


My username has to do with the color of my hair

Do you really think that supports your conclusions?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2021, 10:54:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 07:51:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2021, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
I see the WaPo are covering themselves in glory again.....no better than Fox News or Breitbart imho


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-call-georgia-investigator/2021/01/09/7a55c7fa-51cf-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html#click=https://t.co/8We1LtgEhS


correction: Two months after publication of this story, the Georgia secretary of state released an audio recording of President Donald Trump's December phone call with the state's top elections investigator. The recording revealed that The Post misquoted Trump's comments on the call, based on information provided by a source. Trump did not tell the investigator to "find the fraud" or say she would be "a national hero" if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find "dishonesty" there. He also told her that she had "the most important job in the country right now." A story about the recording can be found here. The headline and text of this story have been corrected to remove quotes misattributed to Trump.

So instead of "finding the fraud", she would find "dishonesty" and instead of being a "national hero" she had "the most important job in the country right now" finding the fraud dishonesty.

That puts a very strikingly different tone on the story there whitey. ;D ::)

Funny how 100% of these mistakes fall one way isn't it?

And yes....big bloody difference between what was initially "reported" and what was actually said on the call.

Not surprised you're poo pooing it though, given you fell hook line and sinker for every debunked Democratic fraud allegation surrounding the 2016 election

There is zero difference. He used different words than what where reported, but the point and tone of the call were the same as reported, i.e. to pressure GA state officials to "find" non-existent fraud as part of his months-long anti-democratic campaign to "find" voter fraud and undermine public faith in the elections in all of those five states.

As for falling for "debunked" allegations, go ahead and point out where I have done so.

Unlike yourself, I don't engage in absolutism and certainty when it comes to this stuff. Most of our exchanges take the form of you posting some version of Dems/media-are-evil and my questioning your "interpretation".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 15, 2021, 07:46:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2021, 06:51:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 15, 2021, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 15, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
I see the WaPo are covering themselves in glory again.....no better than Fox News or Breitbart imho


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-call-georgia-investigator/2021/01/09/7a55c7fa-51cf-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html#click=https://t.co/8We1LtgEhS


correction: Two months after publication of this story, the Georgia secretary of state released an audio recording of President Donald Trump's December phone call with the state's top elections investigator. The recording revealed that The Post misquoted Trump's comments on the call, based on information provided by a source. Trump did not tell the investigator to "find the fraud" or say she would be "a national hero" if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find "dishonesty" there. He also told her that she had "the most important job in the country right now." A story about the recording can be found here. The headline and text of this story have been corrected to remove quotes misattributed to Trump.
bit late now that the loons have taken over the asylum.

Loons with high approval ratings. The country is liking what it is seeing so far. 8)
what policies are popular?

His handling of the COVID pandemic is getting high marks, astronomical, politically speaking, compared to his predecessor.

And the 1.9T package just passed is popular across the political spectrum, despite the newly rediscovered concern among the congressional GOP for spending.

I haven't seen polls yet, but I would expect that the mere change in tone is also popular, as well as things like starting to suspend Trump's assault on environmental issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 18, 2021, 01:18:21 AM
Be interesting to see what sort of weasel words are used to protect white supremacism after this

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1372354134867861504

New: Texas man arrested outside VP Kamala Harris' official residence at the US Naval Observatory Wednesday was in possession of an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, 113 rounds of unregistered ammunition, and five 30 round magazines, according to DC police report.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 18, 2021, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 18, 2021, 01:18:21 AM
Be interesting to see what sort of weasel words are used to protect white supremacism after this

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1372354134867861504

New: Texas man arrested outside VP Kamala Harris' official residence at the US Naval Observatory Wednesday was in possession of an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, 113 rounds of unregistered ammunition, and five 30 round magazines, according to DC police report.

Another lad having a "bad day"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
Sid and Rudy could have teamed up and imagined a better conspiracy that this.  Though it appears the voices coming from inside the head is widely regarded as compelling evidence by most republicans.

"Hopkins  (the main witness) revised his claims, eventually stating that he had not heard a conversation about ballots at all — rather he saw the Postmaster and Supervisor having a discussion and assumed it was about fraudulent ballot backdating," the report says. "[Hopkins] acknowledged that he had no evidence of any backdated presidential ballots."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
Sid and Rudy could have teamed up and imagined a better conspiracy that this.  Though it appears the voices coming from inside the head is widely regarded as compelling evidence by most republicans.

"Hopkins  (the main witness) revised his claims, eventually stating that he had not heard a conversation about ballots at all — rather he saw the Postmaster and Supervisor having a discussion and assumed it was about fraudulent ballot backdating," the report says. "[Hopkins] acknowledged that he had no evidence of any backdated presidential ballots."

Most of the allegations, across the board, came from credulous, paranoid bullshit like this. "Oh, there's a van with out-of-state plates. Must be delivering fake votes!"

Its why they were laughed out of court over and over again, even while they kept spewing the bullshit to the media and their followers.

And even after all of that, Trump holds the entire party and movement in the palm of his hand.

History is not going to treat these people kindly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 19, 2021, 01:54:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
Sid and Rudy could have teamed up and imagined a better conspiracy that this.  Though it appears the voices coming from inside the head is widely regarded as compelling evidence by most republicans.

"Hopkins  (the main witness) revised his claims, eventually stating that he had not heard a conversation about ballots at all — rather he saw the Postmaster and Supervisor having a discussion and assumed it was about fraudulent ballot backdating," the report says. "[Hopkins] acknowledged that he had no evidence of any backdated presidential ballots."

Most of the allegations, across the board, came from credulous, paranoid bullshit like this. "Oh, there's a van with out-of-state plates. Must be delivering fake votes!"

Its why they were laughed out of court over and over again, even while they kept spewing the bullshit to the media and their followers.

And even after all of that, Trump holds the entire party and movement in the palm of his hand.

History is not going to treat these people kindly.

Meh. They'll just rewrite the textbooks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 19, 2021, 02:21:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
Sid and Rudy could have teamed up and imagined a better conspiracy that this.  Though it appears the voices coming from inside the head is widely regarded as compelling evidence by most republicans.

"Hopkins  (the main witness) revised his claims, eventually stating that he had not heard a conversation about ballots at all — rather he saw the Postmaster and Supervisor having a discussion and assumed it was about fraudulent ballot backdating," the report says. "[Hopkins] acknowledged that he had no evidence of any backdated presidential ballots."

Most of the allegations, across the board, came from credulous, paranoid bullshit like this. "Oh, there's a van with out-of-state plates. Must be delivering fake votes!"

Its why they were laughed out of court over and over again, even while they kept spewing the bullshit to the media and their followers.

And even after all of that, Trump holds the entire party and movement in the palm of his hand.

History is not going to treat these people kindly.
must be the same vans that were kidnapping mail boxes
Joe calling Kamala president Harris again yesterday another gaffe I guess
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 19, 2021, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2021, 02:21:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
Sid and Rudy could have teamed up and imagined a better conspiracy that this.  Though it appears the voices coming from inside the head is widely regarded as compelling evidence by most republicans.

"Hopkins  (the main witness) revised his claims, eventually stating that he had not heard a conversation about ballots at all — rather he saw the Postmaster and Supervisor having a discussion and assumed it was about fraudulent ballot backdating," the report says. "[Hopkins] acknowledged that he had no evidence of any backdated presidential ballots."

Most of the allegations, across the board, came from credulous, paranoid bullshit like this. "Oh, there's a van with out-of-state plates. Must be delivering fake votes!"

Its why they were laughed out of court over and over again, even while they kept spewing the bullshit to the media and their followers.

And even after all of that, Trump holds the entire party and movement in the palm of his hand.

History is not going to treat these people kindly.
must be the same vans that were kidnapping mail boxes
Joe calling Kamala president Harris again yesterday another gaffe I guess

I guess I missed the mailbox kidnapping issue, whatever it was.

Its amazing the exposure something gets when the President at the time, an entire party and the entire right wing media are pushing credulous, half-baked nonsense.

On Biden, yes, exactly the same sort of gaffe he's been churning out for decades. But if you find comfort in defining him as a drooling vegetable, work away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 19, 2021, 02:44:48 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 19, 2021, 01:54:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
Sid and Rudy could have teamed up and imagined a better conspiracy that this.  Though it appears the voices coming from inside the head is widely regarded as compelling evidence by most republicans.

"Hopkins  (the main witness) revised his claims, eventually stating that he had not heard a conversation about ballots at all — rather he saw the Postmaster and Supervisor having a discussion and assumed it was about fraudulent ballot backdating," the report says. "[Hopkins] acknowledged that he had no evidence of any backdated presidential ballots."

Most of the allegations, across the board, came from credulous, paranoid bullshit like this. "Oh, there's a van with out-of-state plates. Must be delivering fake votes!"

Its why they were laughed out of court over and over again, even while they kept spewing the bullshit to the media and their followers.

And even after all of that, Trump holds the entire party and movement in the palm of his hand.

History is not going to treat these people kindly.

Meh. They'll just rewrite the textbooks.

True enough.

It can be in there with the "War of Northern Aggression", which had NOTHING to do with slavery!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 19, 2021, 04:19:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2021, 02:21:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
Sid and Rudy could have teamed up and imagined a better conspiracy that this.  Though it appears the voices coming from inside the head is widely regarded as compelling evidence by most republicans.

"Hopkins  (the main witness) revised his claims, eventually stating that he had not heard a conversation about ballots at all — rather he saw the Postmaster and Supervisor having a discussion and assumed it was about fraudulent ballot backdating," the report says. "[Hopkins] acknowledged that he had no evidence of any backdated presidential ballots."

Most of the allegations, across the board, came from credulous, paranoid bullshit like this. "Oh, there's a van with out-of-state plates. Must be delivering fake votes!"

Its why they were laughed out of court over and over again, even while they kept spewing the bullshit to the media and their followers.

And even after all of that, Trump holds the entire party and movement in the palm of his hand.

History is not going to treat these people kindly.
must be the same vans that were kidnapping mail boxes
Joe calling Kamala president Harris again yesterday another gaffe I guess

I guess I missed the mailbox kidnapping issue, whatever it was.

Its amazing the exposure something gets when the President at the time, an entire party and the entire right wing media are pushing credulous, half-baked nonsense.

On Biden, yes, exactly the same sort of gaffe he's been churning out for decades. But if you find comfort in defining him as a drooling vegetable, work away.
are you saying that cnn and msnbc were not pushing the mail boxes are being removed by the Trump administration? Joe nearly hurt himself on stairs of plane today the man should be retired .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2021, 12:25:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2021, 04:19:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2021, 02:21:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
Sid and Rudy could have teamed up and imagined a better conspiracy that this.  Though it appears the voices coming from inside the head is widely regarded as compelling evidence by most republicans.

"Hopkins  (the main witness) revised his claims, eventually stating that he had not heard a conversation about ballots at all — rather he saw the Postmaster and Supervisor having a discussion and assumed it was about fraudulent ballot backdating," the report says. "[Hopkins] acknowledged that he had no evidence of any backdated presidential ballots."

Most of the allegations, across the board, came from credulous, paranoid bullshit like this. "Oh, there's a van with out-of-state plates. Must be delivering fake votes!"

Its why they were laughed out of court over and over again, even while they kept spewing the bullshit to the media and their followers.

And even after all of that, Trump holds the entire party and movement in the palm of his hand.

History is not going to treat these people kindly.
must be the same vans that were kidnapping mail boxes
Joe calling Kamala president Harris again yesterday another gaffe I guess

I guess I missed the mailbox kidnapping issue, whatever it was.

Its amazing the exposure something gets when the President at the time, an entire party and the entire right wing media are pushing credulous, half-baked nonsense.

On Biden, yes, exactly the same sort of gaffe he's been churning out for decades. But if you find comfort in defining him as a drooling vegetable, work away.
are you saying that cnn and msnbc were not pushing the mail boxes are being removed by the Trump administration? Joe nearly hurt himself on stairs of plane today the man should be retired .

There were concerns across the country about the service cuts Louis De Joy, a Trump donor appointed to head the postal service, was implementing, including getting rid of  overtime, processing machines and mailboxes. USPS released statements that they were going to halt the program in the lead up to the election. This was at the exact same time Trump was screaming bloody murder about the mail fraud supposedly going to cost him the election.

As for Joe, he is doing a decent job so far, thank you. That's reflected in the level of satisfaction people have with him and in the fact that Republicans and the right wing media are reduced to bullshit campaigns about cancel culture.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2021, 01:05:23 PM
Must be nice to have a President doing his job of running the Country after 4 years of the mad hatters tweet party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
It sure is. Fact and science based decision making is good apparently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
It sure is. Fact and science based decision making is good apparently.
letting thousands of people into the country illegally and not testing them for virus is science ?
The first duty of the president is to uphold the law of the country why won't he do that on the southern border ?  too busy going to push a white supremacy narrative in Atlanta , why doesn't he go to Chicago every Monday after 35/40 people are shot over the weekend there ? doesn't work for the narrative that all white conservatives are racist and if you vote for them you are too , a sick message for anyone let alone a president to be pushing. Even China are trying to lecture USA on humanitarian issues they see the chance to pounce on a weak and divisive president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2021, 07:25:24 PM
Take yer batin like a man ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2021, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
It sure is. Fact and science based decision making is good apparently.
letting thousands of people into the country illegally and not testing them for virus is science ?
The first duty of the president is to uphold the law of the country why won't he do that on the southern border ?  too busy going to push a white supremacy narrative in Atlanta , why doesn't he go to Chicago every Monday after 35/40 people are shot over the weekend there ? doesn't work for the narrative that all white conservatives are racist and if you vote for them you are too , a sick message for anyone let alone a president to be pushing. Even China are trying to lecture USA on humanitarian issues they see the chance to pounce on a weak and divisive president.

Is the "not testing illegal immigrants " thing true?

Is the US testing other people who enter the country? Were they doing so under Trump?

What does Chicago have to do with the mass murder of Asian American women in Atlanta?

Who says or said "all white conservatives are racist"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 20, 2021, 09:11:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
The first duty of the president is to uphold the law of the country

Is it not defend the constitution?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
It sure is. Fact and science based decision making is good apparently.
letting thousands of people into the country illegally and not testing them for virus is science ?
The first duty of the president is to uphold the law of the country why won't he do that on the southern border ?  too busy going to push a white supremacy narrative in Atlanta , why doesn't he go to Chicago every Monday after 35/40 people are shot over the weekend there ? doesn't work for the narrative that all white conservatives are racist and if you vote for them you are too , a sick message for anyone let alone a president to be pushing. Even China are trying to lecture USA on humanitarian issues they see the chance to pounce on a weak and divisive president.

Is the "not testing illegal immigrants " thing true?

Is the US testing other people who enter the country? Were they doing so under Trump?

What does Chicago have to do with the mass murder of Asian American women in Atlanta?

Who says or said "all white conservatives are racist"?
they weren't coming in tens of thousands per day , is it the same to enter through an airport or come across a border illegally ? Biden and Harris were so outraged that they had to go there but the same thing happens every weekend in Chicago and nothing is said about it are they not outraged or doesn't fit narrative. Weren't 2 other non Asian  killed in Georgia or they don't count ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2021, 09:36:26 PM
They've has to shut down media access to the holding facilities...it's that bad

They had a border patrol agent on the radio yesterday....900 people voluntarily surrendered to his post alone during his most recents shift.

He said that people are under the impression that if they make it here, they're here for good

4 and 5 year old kids coming across as unaccompanied minors under the "care" of no in in particular

A serious $hit show down ther
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2021, 10:09:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
It sure is. Fact and science based decision making is good apparently.
letting thousands of people into the country illegally and not testing them for virus is science ?
The first duty of the president is to uphold the law of the country why won't he do that on the southern border ?  too busy going to push a white supremacy narrative in Atlanta , why doesn't he go to Chicago every Monday after 35/40 people are shot over the weekend there ? doesn't work for the narrative that all white conservatives are racist and if you vote for them you are too , a sick message for anyone let alone a president to be pushing. Even China are trying to lecture USA on humanitarian issues they see the chance to pounce on a weak and divisive president.

Is the "not testing illegal immigrants " thing true?

Is the US testing other people who enter the country? Were they doing so under Trump?

What does Chicago have to do with the mass murder of Asian American women in Atlanta?

Who says or said "all white conservatives are racist"?
they weren't coming in tens of thousands per day , is it the same to enter through an airport or come across a border illegally ? Biden and Harris were so outraged that they had to go there but the same thing happens every weekend in Chicago and nothing is said about it are they not outraged or doesn't fit narrative. Weren't 2 other non Asian  killed in Georgia or they don't count ?

1. I didn't realize COVID status only mattered if the entrant is illegal, and then only if it crosses a certain number threshold. Thanks for clearing that up. You still didn't answer the question about whether it's true or not.

2. I don't know what you Trumpers would do if Chicago didn't exist. What are YOU or your political reps doing about the violence there? Anything to say about the endless supply of guns available right outside the city limits? Are you FOR proper gun control? I guaran-f**king-tee you your average GOPer doesn't give Chicago a second thought except when some fucked-up white asshole massacres a bunch of people and they don't want to talk about it (sorry, they also wheel it out when  a cop kills an unarmed black person). But given that you're pointing to Chicago again and again, why don't YOU tell us what the Dem and liberal politicians are doing, what GOP are doing, and how each is succeeding or failing. Evidently you're a bit of an authority on the subject.

3. The non-Asian victims of this atrocity have been identified all across the media. I have not seen ANYONE suggest they may not count, except yourself. Nevertheless, 6 out of 8 were Asian women. If you think that is not a significant fact, knock yourself out and tell us why.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on March 21, 2021, 01:04:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 10:09:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
It sure is. Fact and science based decision making is good apparently.
letting thousands of people into the country illegally and not testing them for virus is science ?
The first duty of the president is to uphold the law of the country why won't he do that on the southern border ?  too busy going to push a white supremacy narrative in Atlanta , why doesn't he go to Chicago every Monday after 35/40 people are shot over the weekend there ? doesn't work for the narrative that all white conservatives are racist and if you vote for them you are too , a sick message for anyone let alone a president to be pushing. Even China are trying to lecture USA on humanitarian issues they see the chance to pounce on a weak and divisive president.

Is the "not testing illegal immigrants " thing true?

Is the US testing other people who enter the country? Were they doing so under Trump?

What does Chicago have to do with the mass murder of Asian American women in Atlanta?

Who says or said "all white conservatives are racist"?
they weren't coming in tens of thousands per day , is it the same to enter through an airport or come across a border illegally ? Biden and Harris were so outraged that they had to go there but the same thing happens every weekend in Chicago and nothing is said about it are they not outraged or doesn't fit narrative. Weren't 2 other non Asian  killed in Georgia or they don't count ?

1. I didn't realize COVID status only mattered if the entrant is illegal, and then only if it crosses a certain number threshold. Thanks for clearing that up. You still didn't answer the question about whether it's true or not.

2. I don't know what you Trumpers would do if Chicago didn't exist. What are YOU or your political reps doing about the violence there? Anything to say about the endless supply of guns available right outside the city limits? Are you FOR proper gun control? I guaran-f**king-tee you your average GOPer doesn't give Chicago a second thought except when some fucked-up white asshole massacres a bunch of people and they don't want to talk about it (sorry, they also wheel it out when  a cop kills an unarmed black person). But given that you're pointing to Chicago again and again, why don't YOU tell us what the Dem and liberal politicians are doing, what GOP are doing, and how each is succeeding or failing. Evidently you're a bit of an authority on the subject.

3. The non-Asian victims of this atrocity have been identified all across the media. I have not seen ANYONE suggest they may not count, except yourself. Nevertheless, 6 out of 8 were Asian women. If you think that is not a significant fact, knock yourself out and tell us why.

In your opinion is the alleged shooter a white supremacist and Trump supporter?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 21, 2021, 02:21:05 AM
Shooting had fvck all to do with race.

It would be like someone with a gambling addiction shooting up a bookie shop or a casino.....he'd have shot whoever was there, regardless of race
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2021, 11:09:56 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 21, 2021, 01:04:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 10:09:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
It sure is. Fact and science based decision making is good apparently.
letting thousands of people into the country illegally and not testing them for virus is science ?
The first duty of the president is to uphold the law of the country why won't he do that on the southern border ?  too busy going to push a white supremacy narrative in Atlanta , why doesn't he go to Chicago every Monday after 35/40 people are shot over the weekend there ? doesn't work for the narrative that all white conservatives are racist and if you vote for them you are too , a sick message for anyone let alone a president to be pushing. Even China are trying to lecture USA on humanitarian issues they see the chance to pounce on a weak and divisive president.

Is the "not testing illegal immigrants " thing true?

Is the US testing other people who enter the country? Were they doing so under Trump?

What does Chicago have to do with the mass murder of Asian American women in Atlanta?

Who says or said "all white conservatives are racist"?
they weren't coming in tens of thousands per day , is it the same to enter through an airport or come across a border illegally ? Biden and Harris were so outraged that they had to go there but the same thing happens every weekend in Chicago and nothing is said about it are they not outraged or doesn't fit narrative. Weren't 2 other non Asian  killed in Georgia or they don't count ?

1. I didn't realize COVID status only mattered if the entrant is illegal, and then only if it crosses a certain number threshold. Thanks for clearing that up. You still didn't answer the question about whether it's true or not.

2. I don't know what you Trumpers would do if Chicago didn't exist. What are YOU or your political reps doing about the violence there? Anything to say about the endless supply of guns available right outside the city limits? Are you FOR proper gun control? I guaran-f**king-tee you your average GOPer doesn't give Chicago a second thought except when some fucked-up white asshole massacres a bunch of people and they don't want to talk about it (sorry, they also wheel it out when  a cop kills an unarmed black person). But given that you're pointing to Chicago again and again, why don't YOU tell us what the Dem and liberal politicians are doing, what GOP are doing, and how each is succeeding or failing. Evidently you're a bit of an authority on the subject.

3. The non-Asian victims of this atrocity have been identified all across the media. I have not seen ANYONE suggest they may not count, except yourself. Nevertheless, 6 out of 8 were Asian women. If you think that is not a significant fact, knock yourself out and tell us why.

In your opinion is the alleged shooter a white supremacist and Trump supporter?

No idea if he is a white supremacist. He would appear to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlours. Maybe he is fixated on them as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian.

Trump supporter? White evangelical christian from the Deep South, supposedly suffering from serious guilt and psychological issues over sex... I'd put my money on yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2021, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
o Keefe has got some pictures from the detention centers in Texas shocking to say the least
Biden administration trying to gag border patrol and ice how very CCP of them .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:17:28 PM
J70

Apart from Asian, what other types of massage parlors are there in Atlanta?

I spent a decent amount of time down there in the early 2000s and iirc that's the only type there is?

To say "he appears to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlors" is implying that there are other types of massage parlors he could avail of.....and I don't that is the case at all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2021, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:17:28 PM
J70

Apart from Asian, what other types of massage parlors are there in Atlanta?

I spent a decent amount of time down there in the early 2000s and iirc that's the only type there is?

To say "he appears to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlors" is implying that there are other types of massage parlors he could avail of.....and I don't that is the case at all

I wouldn't know what the typical racial profile of massage parlour workers in Atlanta is. :)

And in the immediately following sentences I said "Maybe he is fixated on them (Asian women) as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian."

Whatever his motives I would assume the investigation and prosecution should get to the bottom of it.

Gmac was whining about Biden going down to Atlanta (because Chicago!) completely ignoring the growing concern in recent weeks, before this even happened, about Asian people being increasingly targeted for assault and abuse over the past year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2021, 06:32:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 22, 2021, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 19, 2021, 01:14:46 PM
Will THIS be the final nail in the fraudulent, slanderous James O'Keefe/Project Veritas operation?

Or will Fox News and the rest of the right keep hyping his "sting" operations that continually turn out to be a pile of shit?

I'd forgotten about this PA postal worker "story" amidst the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump and the GOP over election "fraud".

https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/postal-service-finds-no-evidence-project-veritas-mail-ballot-claims-2021-3)

I guess you have to hand it to O'Keefe though. He must be swimming in cash and donations from his scams. Not everyone lasts a long as he does as a conman. As long as you're not one of the victims.
o Keefe has got some pictures from the detention centers in Texas shocking to say the least
Biden administration trying to gag border patrol and ice how very CCP of them .

So THIS time it will be the real, genuine article, no bullshit, exaggeration or fabrication, from O'Keefe, huh? ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:44:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2021, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:17:28 PM
J70

Apart from Asian, what other types of massage parlors are there in Atlanta?

I spent a decent amount of time down there in the early 2000s and iirc that's the only type there is?

To say "he appears to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlors" is implying that there are other types of massage parlors he could avail of.....and I don't that is the case at all

I wouldn't know what the typical racial profile of massage parlour workers in Atlanta is. :)

And in the immediately following sentences I said "Maybe he is fixated on them (Asian women) as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian."

Whatever his motives I would assume the investigation and prosecution should get to the bottom of it.

Gmac was whining about Biden going down to Atlanta (because Chicago!) completely ignoring the growing concern in recent weeks, before this even happened, about Asian people being increasingly targeted for assault and abuse over the past year.

His room mate has already come out (no pun intended) and stated that he never once said anything racist against Asians when he was ranting about his supposed addiction

https://www.google.com/amp/s/texasnewstoday.com/bill-maher-about-shooting-at-a-massage-parlor-in-the-atlanta-area-what-if-its-not-a-hate-crime/184659/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 22, 2021, 08:17:20 PM
How much time did whitey spend around massage parlours in Atlanta?


Texas News Today - where does he keep finding these sites?  LOL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2021, 08:33:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:44:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2021, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:17:28 PM
J70

Apart from Asian, what other types of massage parlors are there in Atlanta?

I spent a decent amount of time down there in the early 2000s and iirc that's the only type there is?

To say "he appears to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlors" is implying that there are other types of massage parlors he could avail of.....and I don't that is the case at all

I wouldn't know what the typical racial profile of massage parlour workers in Atlanta is. :)

And in the immediately following sentences I said "Maybe he is fixated on them (Asian women) as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian."

Whatever his motives I would assume the investigation and prosecution should get to the bottom of it.

Gmac was whining about Biden going down to Atlanta (because Chicago!) completely ignoring the growing concern in recent weeks, before this even happened, about Asian people being increasingly targeted for assault and abuse over the past year.

His room mate has already come out (no pun intended) and stated that he never once said anything racist against Asians when he was ranting about his supposed addiction

https://www.google.com/amp/s/texasnewstoday.com/bill-maher-about-shooting-at-a-massage-parlor-in-the-atlanta-area-what-if-its-not-a-hate-crime/184659/amp/

Asian people can relax then so.

I must ask my wife what the racial makeup of spas and massage parlors in NY is in her experience. I've gifted her a day at a fancy midtown spa a few times, while there is one near our house she goes to occasionally (think that's an Irish/Polish operation though).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2021, 09:42:11 PM
There's reputable and disreputable places

The disreputable places are fronts for illegal activity and unfortunately are staffed by Asian women who are often trafficked for that purpose

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.providencejournal.com/news/20190405/2-arrested-in-prostitution-sting-at-providence-massage-parlor%3ftemplate=ampart

It was all over the news up here in Boston last year or the year before and was also brought up again when Robert Kraft was caught in the sting

I hope you did your homework before you bought the gift certv
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2021, 11:22:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2021, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:17:28 PM
J70

Apart from Asian, what other types of massage parlors are there in Atlanta?

I spent a decent amount of time down there in the early 2000s and iirc that's the only type there is?

To say "he appears to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlors" is implying that there are other types of massage parlors he could avail of.....and I don't that is the case at all

I wouldn't know what the typical racial profile of massage parlour workers in Atlanta is. :)

And in the immediately following sentences I said "Maybe he is fixated on them (Asian women) as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian."

Whatever his motives I would assume the investigation and prosecution should get to the bottom of it.

Gmac was whining about Biden going down to Atlanta (because Chicago!) completely ignoring the growing concern in recent weeks, before this even happened, about Asian people being increasingly targeted for assault and abuse over the past year.
18 more shot and 4 deaths in gun violence this weekend. Will Kamala and joe go to discuss what's going on there and how they can help ? It's a totally Democrat city and state .
There had been a big rise in crimes against Asians in the Sf Bay Area too but I can tell you most of the perpetrators did not vote for Trump  like the story the media would like to spin.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on March 23, 2021, 01:21:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2021, 11:09:56 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 21, 2021, 01:04:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 10:09:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
It sure is. Fact and science based decision making is good apparently.
letting thousands of people into the country illegally and not testing them for virus is science ?
The first duty of the president is to uphold the law of the country why won't he do that on the southern border ?  too busy going to push a white supremacy narrative in Atlanta , why doesn't he go to Chicago every Monday after 35/40 people are shot over the weekend there ? doesn't work for the narrative that all white conservatives are racist and if you vote for them you are too , a sick message for anyone let alone a president to be pushing. Even China are trying to lecture USA on humanitarian issues they see the chance to pounce on a weak and divisive president.

Is the "not testing illegal immigrants " thing true?

Is the US testing other people who enter the country? Were they doing so under Trump?

What does Chicago have to do with the mass murder of Asian American women in Atlanta?

Who says or said "all white conservatives are racist"?
they weren't coming in tens of thousands per day , is it the same to enter through an airport or come across a border illegally ? Biden and Harris were so outraged that they had to go there but the same thing happens every weekend in Chicago and nothing is said about it are they not outraged or doesn't fit narrative. Weren't 2 other non Asian  killed in Georgia or they don't count ?

1. I didn't realize COVID status only mattered if the entrant is illegal, and then only if it crosses a certain number threshold. Thanks for clearing that up. You still didn't answer the question about whether it's true or not.

2. I don't know what you Trumpers would do if Chicago didn't exist. What are YOU or your political reps doing about the violence there? Anything to say about the endless supply of guns available right outside the city limits? Are you FOR proper gun control? I guaran-f**king-tee you your average GOPer doesn't give Chicago a second thought except when some fucked-up white asshole massacres a bunch of people and they don't want to talk about it (sorry, they also wheel it out when  a cop kills an unarmed black person). But given that you're pointing to Chicago again and again, why don't YOU tell us what the Dem and liberal politicians are doing, what GOP are doing, and how each is succeeding or failing. Evidently you're a bit of an authority on the subject.

3. The non-Asian victims of this atrocity have been identified all across the media. I have not seen ANYONE suggest they may not count, except yourself. Nevertheless, 6 out of 8 were Asian women. If you think that is not a significant fact, knock yourself out and tell us why.

In your opinion is the alleged shooter a white supremacist and Trump supporter?

No idea if he is a white supremacist. He would appear to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlours. Maybe he is fixated on them as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian.

Trump supporter? White evangelical christian from the Deep South, supposedly suffering from serious guilt and psychological issues over sex... I'd put my money on yes.

Not many 21 year olds, or is he 19 as some reports indicate, have any real interest in politics. None of the people that know him has mentioned it nor his social media accounts don't seem to show any indication either. The Mockingbird Media would jump on that very fast, only if he is a Trump fan of course. No interest in politics is where my money would go on. Nothing to do with racism either. This divide and conquer shite needs to end and it's very obvious who is the driving force behind it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 23, 2021, 02:14:11 AM
Yep - the GOP and their orange skinned leader in Florida.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2021, 11:08:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 22, 2021, 11:22:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2021, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:17:28 PM
J70

Apart from Asian, what other types of massage parlors are there in Atlanta?

I spent a decent amount of time down there in the early 2000s and iirc that's the only type there is?

To say "he appears to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlors" is implying that there are other types of massage parlors he could avail of.....and I don't that is the case at all

I wouldn't know what the typical racial profile of massage parlour workers in Atlanta is. :)

And in the immediately following sentences I said "Maybe he is fixated on them (Asian women) as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian."

Whatever his motives I would assume the investigation and prosecution should get to the bottom of it.

Gmac was whining about Biden going down to Atlanta (because Chicago!) completely ignoring the growing concern in recent weeks, before this even happened, about Asian people being increasingly targeted for assault and abuse over the past year.
18 more shot and 4 deaths in gun violence this weekend. Will Kamala and joe go to discuss what's going on there and how they can help ? It's a totally Democrat city and state .
There had been a big rise in crimes against Asians in the Sf Bay Area too but I can tell you most of the perpetrators did not vote for Trump  like the story the media would like to spin.

Once again, why don't you tell us what is being done and what should be done about the violence in Chicago. It seems to be something that greatly concerns you, so you should have some answers.

Is the media really saying that the perpetrators are Trump voters? I hadn't heard that.

What I have heard is Trump and many of his followers going on about the "kung flu" and "chinavirus", Kevin McCarthy saying no one in America was sitting at their kitchen table worrying about crimes against Asians, and some other GOP neanderthal last week blathering on about rope and oak trees during a congressional hearing on the topic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2021, 11:09:15 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 23, 2021, 01:21:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2021, 11:09:56 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 21, 2021, 01:04:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 10:09:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2021, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
It sure is. Fact and science based decision making is good apparently.
letting thousands of people into the country illegally and not testing them for virus is science ?
The first duty of the president is to uphold the law of the country why won't he do that on the southern border ?  too busy going to push a white supremacy narrative in Atlanta , why doesn't he go to Chicago every Monday after 35/40 people are shot over the weekend there ? doesn't work for the narrative that all white conservatives are racist and if you vote for them you are too , a sick message for anyone let alone a president to be pushing. Even China are trying to lecture USA on humanitarian issues they see the chance to pounce on a weak and divisive president.

Is the "not testing illegal immigrants " thing true?

Is the US testing other people who enter the country? Were they doing so under Trump?

What does Chicago have to do with the mass murder of Asian American women in Atlanta?

Who says or said "all white conservatives are racist"?
they weren't coming in tens of thousands per day , is it the same to enter through an airport or come across a border illegally ? Biden and Harris were so outraged that they had to go there but the same thing happens every weekend in Chicago and nothing is said about it are they not outraged or doesn't fit narrative. Weren't 2 other non Asian  killed in Georgia or they don't count ?

1. I didn't realize COVID status only mattered if the entrant is illegal, and then only if it crosses a certain number threshold. Thanks for clearing that up. You still didn't answer the question about whether it's true or not.

2. I don't know what you Trumpers would do if Chicago didn't exist. What are YOU or your political reps doing about the violence there? Anything to say about the endless supply of guns available right outside the city limits? Are you FOR proper gun control? I guaran-f**king-tee you your average GOPer doesn't give Chicago a second thought except when some fucked-up white asshole massacres a bunch of people and they don't want to talk about it (sorry, they also wheel it out when  a cop kills an unarmed black person). But given that you're pointing to Chicago again and again, why don't YOU tell us what the Dem and liberal politicians are doing, what GOP are doing, and how each is succeeding or failing. Evidently you're a bit of an authority on the subject.

3. The non-Asian victims of this atrocity have been identified all across the media. I have not seen ANYONE suggest they may not count, except yourself. Nevertheless, 6 out of 8 were Asian women. If you think that is not a significant fact, knock yourself out and tell us why.

In your opinion is the alleged shooter a white supremacist and Trump supporter?

No idea if he is a white supremacist. He would appear to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlours. Maybe he is fixated on them as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian.

Trump supporter? White evangelical christian from the Deep South, supposedly suffering from serious guilt and psychological issues over sex... I'd put my money on yes.

Not many 21 year olds, or is he 19 as some reports indicate, have any real interest in politics. None of the people that know him has mentioned it nor his social media accounts don't seem to show any indication either. The Mockingbird Media would jump on that very fast, only if he is a Trump fan of course. No interest in politics is where my money would go on. Nothing to do with racism either. This divide and conquer shite needs to end and it's very obvious who is the driving force behind it.

Yes, it is obvious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2021, 11:29:48 AM
I see formidable Trump lawyer, Sidney "Kraken" Powell, is going the Tucker Carlson/Alex Jones route in trying to defend her poisonous, baseless election-fraud fraud in court, using the no-one-is-supposed-to-take-me-seriously defense. I hope this Dominion crowd sue her (and Giuliani and the rest) into oblivion.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/22/politics/sidney-powell-dominion-lawsuit-election-fraud/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/22/politics/sidney-powell-dominion-lawsuit-election-fraud/index.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 23, 2021, 12:17:39 PM
I am confused when they talk about voter fraud when Voter suppression doesn't seem to bother people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 23, 2021, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 23, 2021, 12:17:39 PM
I am confused when they talk about voter fraud when Voter suppression doesn't seem to bother people?

Because for the most part it's a pile of utter nonsense

I'm sure there are isolated instances, (like with voter fraud) but as per an exchange on here last week, if you oppose counting ballots that arrive 10 days after polling day, with no postmark and mismatching signatures that's voter suppression according to the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2021, 01:24:32 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 23, 2021, 12:17:39 PM
I am confused when they talk about voter fraud when Voter suppression doesn't seem to bother people?

Whitey's hyperbole notwithstanding, the GOP want to limit the number of people voting because high turnout hurts them.

If it didn't, you would NOT see stuff like limiting Sunday voting, reducing the number of days for early voting, loosely-targeted voter list purges, and, since Trump's hissy-fit, trying to do away with no-excuse mail-in voting (despite this being in place in many red states for years).

What you won't see from them are proposals to increase participation.

Meanwhile, the documented incidences of fraud are so rare as to be barely worthy of consideration. Its not like Trump and the GOP haven't tried looking for them, with commisions announced to great fanfare before quietly folding.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2021, 03:50:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2021, 11:08:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 22, 2021, 11:22:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2021, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:17:28 PM
J70

Apart from Asian, what other types of massage parlors are there in Atlanta?

I spent a decent amount of time down there in the early 2000s and iirc that's the only type there is?

To say "he appears to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlors" is implying that there are other types of massage parlors he could avail of.....and I don't that is the case at all

I wouldn't know what the typical racial profile of massage parlour workers in Atlanta is. :)

And in the immediately following sentences I said "Maybe he is fixated on them (Asian women) as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian."

Whatever his motives I would assume the investigation and prosecution should get to the bottom of it.

Gmac was whining about Biden going down to Atlanta (because Chicago!) completely ignoring the growing concern in recent weeks, before this even happened, about Asian people being increasingly targeted for assault and abuse over the past year.
18 more shot and 4 deaths in gun violence this weekend. Will Kamala and joe go to discuss what's going on there and how they can help ? It's a totally Democrat city and state .
There had been a big rise in crimes against Asians in the Sf Bay Area too but I can tell you most of the perpetrators did not vote for Trump  like the story the media would like to spin.

Once again, why don't you tell us what is being done and what should be done about the violence in Chicago. It seems to be something that greatly concerns you, so you should have some answers.

Is the media really saying that the perpetrators are Trump voters? I hadn't heard that.

What I have heard is Trump and many of his followers going on about the "kung flu" and "chinavirus", Kevin McCarthy saying no one in America was sitting at their kitchen table worrying about crimes against Asians, and some other GOP neanderthal last week blathering on about rope and oak trees during a congressional hearing on the topic.
there is a big difference between calling something the China virus and attacking someone, there is a one thousand page thread called the China corona virus on here and I don't think any board members have felt the need to attack any Asian people. Will Kamala and joe go to Boulder you think?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2021, 04:09:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2021, 03:50:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2021, 11:08:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 22, 2021, 11:22:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2021, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2021, 06:17:28 PM
J70

Apart from Asian, what other types of massage parlors are there in Atlanta?

I spent a decent amount of time down there in the early 2000s and iirc that's the only type there is?

To say "he appears to have a serious issue with Asian women working in massage parlors" is implying that there are other types of massage parlors he could avail of.....and I don't that is the case at all

I wouldn't know what the typical racial profile of massage parlour workers in Atlanta is. :)

And in the immediately following sentences I said "Maybe he is fixated on them (Asian women) as part of his supposed sexual addiction. Maybe he just hates women in general or presumed sex workers specifically and his targets just happened to be overwhelmingly Asian."

Whatever his motives I would assume the investigation and prosecution should get to the bottom of it.

Gmac was whining about Biden going down to Atlanta (because Chicago!) completely ignoring the growing concern in recent weeks, before this even happened, about Asian people being increasingly targeted for assault and abuse over the past year.
18 more shot and 4 deaths in gun violence this weekend. Will Kamala and joe go to discuss what's going on there and how they can help ? It's a totally Democrat city and state .
There had been a big rise in crimes against Asians in the Sf Bay Area too but I can tell you most of the perpetrators did not vote for Trump  like the story the media would like to spin.

Once again, why don't you tell us what is being done and what should be done about the violence in Chicago. It seems to be something that greatly concerns you, so you should have some answers.

Is the media really saying that the perpetrators are Trump voters? I hadn't heard that.

What I have heard is Trump and many of his followers going on about the "kung flu" and "chinavirus", Kevin McCarthy saying no one in America was sitting at their kitchen table worrying about crimes against Asians, and some other GOP neanderthal last week blathering on about rope and oak trees during a congressional hearing on the topic.
there is a big difference between calling something the China virus and attacking someone, there is a one thousand page thread called the China corona virus on here and I don't think any board members have felt the need to attack any Asian people. Will Kamala and joe go to Boulder you think?

In isolation there may be a difference, yes.

But Trump's whole political persona and his base of support is based on demonizing and scapegoating the "other". I guarantee you he wouldn't be talking about the white christian equivalent of "kung flu" if the virus had arisen somewhere in the bible belt.

And yes, I would absolutely expect Biden and Harris to go to Boulder.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2021, 04:48:33 PM
Childrens allowance is introduced in the US but the GOP don't like it


https://www.ft.com/content/cc2a0d8c-123e-4d36-b01a-55cd8a23a166

We do not support turning the child tax credit into what has been called a 'child allowance', paid out as a universal basic income to all parents," Republican senators Marco Rubio and Mike Lee said in a statement last month. "That is not tax relief for working parents; it is welfare assistance."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 23, 2021, 04:53:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2021, 04:48:33 PM
Childrens allowance is introduced in the US but the GOP don't like it


https://www.ft.com/content/cc2a0d8c-123e-4d36-b01a-55cd8a23a166

We do not support turning the child tax credit into what has been called a 'child allowance', paid out as a universal basic income to all parents," Republican senators Marco Rubio and Mike Lee said in a statement last month. "That is not tax relief for working parents; it is welfare assistance."

I'm not a tax expert, but don't you claim your kids as an exemption on your tax return anyway thereby lowering the amount of tax you pay?

And if you don't make enough to pay taxes does it not increase the size of check the govt sends you?

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/can-poor-families-benefit-child-tax-credit
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2021, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2021, 04:53:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2021, 04:48:33 PM
Childrens allowance is introduced in the US but the GOP don't like it


https://www.ft.com/content/cc2a0d8c-123e-4d36-b01a-55cd8a23a166

We do not support turning the child tax credit into what has been called a 'child allowance', paid out as a universal basic income to all parents," Republican senators Marco Rubio and Mike Lee said in a statement last month. "That is not tax relief for working parents; it is welfare assistance."

I'm not a tax expert, but don't you claim your kids as an exemption on your tax return anyway thereby lowering the amount of tax you pay?

And if you don't make enough to pay taxes does it not increase the size of check the govt sends you?

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/can-poor-families-benefit-child-tax-credit

A steady, regular children's allowance would surely be of more benefit to poor people than a tax deduction?

At least they means-tested, to some extent, the stimulus cheques this time around. I understand why they didn't do it first time out last year, when they just wanted to get money into people's hands quickly without going through the process of weeding out those who make too much, but after that it should have been means-tested. For example, neither myself or my wife lost work or income, and while a bit extra is always welcome, we absolutely did not need to get any stimulus money.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 23, 2021, 06:01:34 PM
Isn't your weekly take home dependent on the number of deductions you have?

If you claim the deductions you have the money in every single paycheck throughout the year
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2021, 06:30:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2021, 06:01:34 PM
Isn't your weekly take home dependent on the number of deductions you have?

If you claim the deductions you have the money in every single paycheck throughout the year

Does that make any difference for someone barely earning enough to qualify for federal tax?

Its not my area of expertise either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 23, 2021, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2021, 06:30:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2021, 06:01:34 PM
Isn't your weekly take home dependent on the number of deductions you have?

If you claim the deductions you have the money in every single paycheck throughout the year

Does that make any difference for someone barely earning enough to qualify for federal tax?

Its not my area of expertise either.

Well they'd qualify for all types of additional benefits (such as free school meals, food stamps, help with utilities) then

I'm actually in favor or UBI. (With conditions attached to discourage abuse)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2021, 08:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2021, 04:53:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2021, 04:48:33 PM
Childrens allowance is introduced in the US but the GOP don't like it


https://www.ft.com/content/cc2a0d8c-123e-4d36-b01a-55cd8a23a166

We do not support turning the child tax credit into what has been called a 'child allowance', paid out as a universal basic income to all parents," Republican senators Marco Rubio and Mike Lee said in a statement last month. "That is not tax relief for working parents; it is welfare assistance."

I'm not a tax expert, but don't you claim your kids as an exemption on your tax return anyway thereby lowering the amount of tax you pay?

And if you don't make enough to pay taxes does it not increase the size of check the govt sends you?

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/can-poor-families-benefit-child-tax-credit

https://www.ft.com/content/cc2a0d8c-123e-4d36-b01a-55cd8a23a166
An estimated 27m American children — including half of black and Latino children — lived in households that did not receive the full benefit. Now they will.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 23, 2021, 08:24:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2021, 08:05:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2021, 04:53:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2021, 04:48:33 PM
Childrens allowance is introduced in the US but the GOP don't like it


https://www.ft.com/content/cc2a0d8c-123e-4d36-b01a-55cd8a23a166

We do not support turning the child tax credit into what has been called a 'child allowance', paid out as a universal basic income to all parents," Republican senators Marco Rubio and Mike Lee said in a statement last month. "That is not tax relief for working parents; it is welfare assistance."

I'm not a tax expert, but don't you claim your kids as an exemption on your tax return anyway thereby lowering the amount of tax you pay?

And if you don't make enough to pay taxes does it not increase the size of check the govt sends you?

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/can-poor-families-benefit-child-tax-credit

https://www.ft.com/content/cc2a0d8c-123e-4d36-b01a-55cd8a23a166
An estimated 27m American children — including half of black and Latino children — lived in households that did not receive the full benefit. Now they will.

They didn't receive "the full benefit".

By not receiving "the full benefit" what other programs did they become eligible for?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 24, 2021, 06:16:56 PM
Tammy duckworth and mazie horono say they won't vote for any white person to be included in the Biden administration unless they are lgbtq , that's where the Democrats are in 2021 , that's how sick they are , but saying China virus will lead to hate crimes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gawa316 on March 24, 2021, 06:35:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2021, 05:48:37 PM


A steady, regular children's allowance would surely be of more benefit to poor people than a tax deduction?

At least they means-tested, to some extent, the stimulus cheques this time around. I understand why they didn't do it first time out last year, when they just wanted to get money into people's hands quickly without going through the process of weeding out those who make too much, but after that it should have been means-tested. For example, neither myself or my wife lost work or income, and while a bit extra is always welcome, we absolutely did not need to get any stimulus money.

We were in the same boat (well the wife is a sub-teacher but didn't do it that often for us to really feel the effect of not having that income). I was shocked to get the stimulus the first time, as was thinking I haven't lost my job etc, but then someone said to me it's about kick-starting the economy so, in essence, people get money they wouldn't otherwise have and spend it on whatever, which in turns puts money in another businesses pocket, who then spend that money on eg wages, more stock, employ more people, etc, and so on...economics is just one area were I have a very limited grasp of things but that made sense to me but no idea if that's the case
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2021, 07:43:48 PM
I never got any  >:(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on March 24, 2021, 07:47:27 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on March 24, 2021, 06:35:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2021, 05:48:37 PM


A steady, regular children's allowance would surely be of more benefit to poor people than a tax deduction?

At least they means-tested, to some extent, the stimulus cheques this time around. I understand why they didn't do it first time out last year, when they just wanted to get money into people's hands quickly without going through the process of weeding out those who make too much, but after that it should have been means-tested. For example, neither myself or my wife lost work or income, and while a bit extra is always welcome, we absolutely did not need to get any stimulus money.

We were in the same boat (well the wife is a sub-teacher but didn't do it that often for us to really feel the effect of not having that income). I was shocked to get the stimulus the first time, as was thinking I haven't lost my job etc, but then someone said to me it's about kick-starting the economy so, in essence, people get money they wouldn't otherwise have and spend it on whatever, which in turns puts money in another businesses pocket, who then spend that money on eg wages, more stock, employ more people, etc, and so on...economics is just one area were I have a very limited grasp of things but that made sense to me but no idea if that's the case

I don't think this stimulation packages is the best use of money. A lot of people working have saved money in this year, because they cannot spend it. They will spend more when they can, but giving them more money will not necessarily cause them to spend it all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 24, 2021, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2021, 07:43:48 PM
I never got any  >:(

You're obviously earning too much. :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 24, 2021, 10:00:29 PM
Quote from: dec on March 24, 2021, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2021, 07:43:48 PM
I never got any  >:(

You're obviously earning too much. :)
maybe he paid no taxes in 18/19
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2021, 12:09:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 24, 2021, 06:16:56 PM
Tammy duckworth and mazie horono say they won't vote for any white person to be included in the Biden administration unless they are lgbtq , that's where the Democrats are in 2021 , that's how sick they are , but saying China virus will lead to hate crimes.

Leaving aside the fact that they backed down and that their fight was with the BIDEN administration:

1. How many white non-LBGTQ people have been appointed to the cabinet/administration to date?
2. How did these two senators vote on those nominees?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2021, 02:41:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2021, 12:09:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 24, 2021, 06:16:56 PM
Tammy duckworth and mazie horono say they won't vote for any white person to be included in the Biden administration unless they are lgbtq , that's where the Democrats are in 2021 , that's how sick they are , but saying China virus will lead to hate crimes.

Leaving aside the fact that they backed down and that their fight was with the BIDEN administration:

1. How many white non-LBGTQ people have been appointed to the cabinet/administration to date?
2. How did these two senators vote on those nominees?
they should be delighted with Levine being confirmed tonight , a fraud who removed his/her mother from a care home but made it Pennsylvanian policy for everyone else to have to remain.
The best person for the job seems to be a dinosaur policy now .
No sign of joe going to Colorado yet , doesn't fit the narrative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2021, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2021, 02:41:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2021, 12:09:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 24, 2021, 06:16:56 PM
Tammy duckworth and mazie horono say they won't vote for any white person to be included in the Biden administration unless they are lgbtq , that's where the Democrats are in 2021 , that's how sick they are , but saying China virus will lead to hate crimes.

Leaving aside the fact that they backed down and that their fight was with the BIDEN administration:

1. How many white non-LBGTQ people have been appointed to the cabinet/administration to date?
2. How did these two senators vote on those nominees?
they should be delighted with Levine being confirmed tonight , a fraud who removed his/her mother from a care home but made it Pennsylvanian policy for everyone else to have to remain.
The best person for the job seems to be a dinosaur policy now .
No sign of joe going to Colorado yet , doesn't fit the narrative.

The first bullshit line is busted, so you're going to throw another bag of shit at the wall and see if that sticks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2021, 01:55:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2021, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2021, 02:41:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2021, 12:09:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 24, 2021, 06:16:56 PM
Tammy duckworth and mazie horono say they won't vote for any white person to be included in the Biden administration unless they are lgbtq , that's where the Democrats are in 2021 , that's how sick they are , but saying China virus will lead to hate crimes.

Leaving aside the fact that they backed down and that their fight was with the BIDEN administration:

1. How many white non-LBGTQ people have been appointed to the cabinet/administration to date?
2. How did these two senators vote on those nominees?
they should be delighted with Levine being confirmed tonight , a fraud who removed his/her mother from a care home but made it Pennsylvanian policy for everyone else to have to remain.
The best person for the job seems to be a dinosaur policy now .
No sign of joe going to Colorado yet , doesn't fit the narrative.

The first bullshit line is busted, so you're going to throw another bag of shit at the wall and see if that sticks.
they made concessions to them to shut them up you mean .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2021, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2021, 01:55:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2021, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2021, 02:41:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2021, 12:09:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 24, 2021, 06:16:56 PM
Tammy duckworth and mazie horono say they won't vote for any white person to be included in the Biden administration unless they are lgbtq , that's where the Democrats are in 2021 , that's how sick they are , but saying China virus will lead to hate crimes.

Leaving aside the fact that they backed down and that their fight was with the BIDEN administration:

1. How many white non-LBGTQ people have been appointed to the cabinet/administration to date?
2. How did these two senators vote on those nominees?
they should be delighted with Levine being confirmed tonight , a fraud who removed his/her mother from a care home but made it Pennsylvanian policy for everyone else to have to remain.
The best person for the job seems to be a dinosaur policy now .
No sign of joe going to Colorado yet , doesn't fit the narrative.

The first bullshit line is busted, so you're going to throw another bag of shit at the wall and see if that sticks.
they made concessions to them to shut them up you mean .

That is how normal politics works. Joe Manchin is doing very well for himself with it, as is Kyrsten Sinema.

What was this concession anyway which will live long in infamy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on March 26, 2021, 02:13:04 AM
Great press conference

Is it time for you guys to end your circle jerk.

Actually considering your shite, probably not.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 02:37:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.
the media pictures and names on a chart wtf was that was the whole thing staged , never took a question from doocey . Where were  Acosta and Jorge Ramos to grill him on the border crisis? Fake media total disasters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 26, 2021, 02:41:16 PM
Why would Jim Acosta be asking questions to Biden. He hasn't been a WH correspondent in over 2 months - he was replaced by Kaitlan Collins.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 03:19:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 02:37:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.
the media pictures and names on a chart wtf was that was the whole thing staged , never took a question from doocey . Where were  Acosta and Jorge Ramos to grill him on the border crisis? Fake media total disasters.

Oh my god, Doocy didn't get a question!!

Are Fox recognizing Biden as the legitimate president now? From what I read, Doocy gets plenty of questions answered in Psaki's briefings.

Did the conspiracy theory moonbat from OAN, Chanel Rion, get a question? Trump used to take questions from her regularly.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 03:26:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 03:19:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 02:37:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.
the media pictures and names on a chart wtf was that was the whole thing staged , never took a question from doocey . Where were  Acosta and Jorge Ramos to grill him on the border crisis? Fake media total disasters.

Oh my god, Doocy didn't get a question!!

Are Fox recognizing Biden as the legitimate president now? From what I read, Doocy gets plenty of questions answered in Psaki's briefings.

Did the conspiracy theory moonbat from OAN, Chanel Rion, get a question? Trump used to take questions from her regularly.
here's how it went reporter ask question joe go to administration policy notes and read .
Reporter : when will you let us see what's going on in detention centers   Joe when we have everyone out of there and transported around country    Reporter: ok
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 03:52:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 03:26:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 03:19:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 02:37:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.
the media pictures and names on a chart wtf was that was the whole thing staged , never took a question from doocey . Where were  Acosta and Jorge Ramos to grill him on the border crisis? Fake media total disasters.

Oh my god, Doocy didn't get a question!!

Are Fox recognizing Biden as the legitimate president now? From what I read, Doocy gets plenty of questions answered in Psaki's briefings.

Did the conspiracy theory moonbat from OAN, Chanel Rion, get a question? Trump used to take questions from her regularly.
here's how it went reporter ask question joe go to administration policy notes and read .
Reporter : when will you let us see what's going on in detention centers   Joe when we have everyone out of there and transported around country    Reporter: ok

Here's the transcript for you: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/03/25/remarks-by-president-biden-in-press-conference/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/03/25/remarks-by-president-biden-in-press-conference/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.

It doesn't matter. Anything, no matter how poorly founded, that will detract from their own intellectual and moral bankruptcy. Whether it's "sleepy Joe" or denying water and snacks to people queuing up in the Georgia heat to vote (I'd love to hear a defense of that particular part of the voter suppression "election security" bill), all the GOP has to sell is fear and suspicion to try to keep themselves in power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.

It doesn't matter. Anything, no matter how poorly founded, that will detract from their own intellectual and moral bankruptcy. Whether it's "sleepy Joe" or denying water and snacks to people queuing up in the Georgia heat to vote (I'd love to hear a defense of that particular part of the voter suppression "election security" bill), all the GOP has to sell is fear and suspicion to try to keep themselves in power.
here's some nice democratic racism in Oakland , the city will hand out $500 checks to low income families but will exclude 10k white families eligible from receiving one . Can you defend that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
J70-I haven't read the rationale for the drink/snack  ban in the voting line (the media is only reporting that it's an assault on voting rights)

But one thing I do know is that you are prohibited from campaigning within a certain number of yards of a polling station entrance. Would approaching people in a voting line offering them snacks and drinks while wearing a Biden/Trump tee shirt be see as violating that?

Secondly-what passes for a snack-could you give out Lobster Rolls for example? The biggest Trump supporter in my town is a lobster fisherman. Why couldn't he hand out uncooked lobsters if the Democrats are handing out Libster rolls?

Who would be responsible for policing what's given out?

Who would be responsible for ensuring people aren't violating the distancing rules

Edit: the prohibition is on approaching people while they are in line and handing out food/drinks. You can still set up a food/drink station and people can help themselves



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 26, 2021, 05:26:59 PM
Jesus Christ - story time on steroids there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2021, 05:29:10 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 26, 2021, 05:26:59 PM
Jesus Christ - story time on steroids there

It's true....I live in a waterfront town....lots of people fish for Lobsters around here

Do you have anything to contribute apart from a stupid comment?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 26, 2021, 05:43:15 PM
Ted creeping around the swamp these days I see.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExZ6nWDWYAQ38VC?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 26, 2021, 05:54:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 05:29:10 PMDo you have anything to contribute apart from a stupid comment?

Jaysus - the irony from Mr. Lobster Rolls here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.

It doesn't matter. Anything, no matter how poorly founded, that will detract from their own intellectual and moral bankruptcy. Whether it's "sleepy Joe" or denying water and snacks to people queuing up in the Georgia heat to vote (I'd love to hear a defense of that particular part of the voter suppression "election security" bill), all the GOP has to sell is fear and suspicion to try to keep themselves in power.
here's some nice democratic racism in Oakland , the city will hand out $500 checks to low income families but will exclude 10k white families eligible from receiving one . Can you defend that

Sure.

Its a pilot study targeting poor families of colour, randomly selecting 600 of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/)

I'm sure the vast majority of poor families in Oakland, be they black, white or other, will be able to avail of the normal welfare programmes while this study takes place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:29:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
J70-I haven't read the rationale for the drink/snack  ban in the voting line (the media is only reporting that it's an assault on voting rights)

But one thing I do know is that you are prohibited from campaigning within a certain number of yards of a polling station entrance. Would approaching people in a voting line offering them snacks and drinks while wearing a Biden/Trump tee shirt be see as violating that?

Secondly-what passes for a snack-could you give out Lobster Rolls for example? The biggest Trump supporter in my town is a lobster fisherman. Why couldn't he hand out uncooked lobsters if the Democrats are handing out Libster rolls?

Who would be responsible for policing what's given out?

Who would be responsible for ensuring people aren't violating the distancing rules

Edit: the prohibition is on approaching people while they are in line and handing out food/drinks. You can still set up a food/drink station and people can help themselves

Are you suggesting that people will change their vote because someone gave them a bottle of water or a slice of pizza or even a lobster roll?

If you leave the queue to go to the food station, do you get to keep your place?

I couldn't give two fucks if its someone in a Biden tshirt or a Trump tshirt. Its a stupid rule, and the fact that they would go after this right now, as part of the overall push, tells you all you need to know about the motivation of the GOP. "Election security" me arse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 26, 2021, 05:43:15 PM
Ted creeping around the swamp these days I see.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExZ6nWDWYAQ38VC?format=jpg&name=large)

;D

Whatever he's up to in the weeds, he's still trying to live down and recover from throwing his young daughters under the bus when he blamed them for his having to flee the Texas cold snap for Cancun.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.

It doesn't matter. Anything, no matter how poorly founded, that will detract from their own intellectual and moral bankruptcy. Whether it's "sleepy Joe" or denying water and snacks to people queuing up in the Georgia heat to vote (I'd love to hear a defense of that particular part of the voter suppression "election security" bill), all the GOP has to sell is fear and suspicion to try to keep themselves in power.
here's some nice democratic racism in Oakland , the city will hand out $500 checks to low income families but will exclude 10k white families eligible from receiving one . Can you defend that

Sure.

Its a pilot study targeting poor families of colour, randomly selecting 600 of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/)

I'm sure the vast majority of poor families in Oakland, be they black, white or other, will be able to avail of the normal welfare programmes while this study takes place.
the mayor there tips off criminal illegal aliens of upcoming ice raids , she should be in jail with a few of her dem buddies from sf who are already there .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:48:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.

It doesn't matter. Anything, no matter how poorly founded, that will detract from their own intellectual and moral bankruptcy. Whether it's "sleepy Joe" or denying water and snacks to people queuing up in the Georgia heat to vote (I'd love to hear a defense of that particular part of the voter suppression "election security" bill), all the GOP has to sell is fear and suspicion to try to keep themselves in power.
here's some nice democratic racism in Oakland , the city will hand out $500 checks to low income families but will exclude 10k white families eligible from receiving one . Can you defend that

Sure.

Its a pilot study targeting poor families of colour, randomly selecting 600 of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/)

I'm sure the vast majority of poor families in Oakland, be they black, white or other, will be able to avail of the normal welfare programmes while this study takes place.
the mayor there tips off criminal illegal aliens of upcoming ice raids , she should be in jail with a few of her dem buddies from sf who are already there .

So you're changing the subject from poverty pilot studies to sanctuary city policies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:57:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:48:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.

It doesn't matter. Anything, no matter how poorly founded, that will detract from their own intellectual and moral bankruptcy. Whether it's "sleepy Joe" or denying water and snacks to people queuing up in the Georgia heat to vote (I'd love to hear a defense of that particular part of the voter suppression "election security" bill), all the GOP has to sell is fear and suspicion to try to keep themselves in power.
here's some nice democratic racism in Oakland , the city will hand out $500 checks to low income families but will exclude 10k white families eligible from receiving one . Can you defend that

Sure.

Its a pilot study targeting poor families of colour, randomly selecting 600 of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/)

I'm sure the vast majority of poor families in Oakland, be they black, white or other, will be able to avail of the normal welfare programmes while this study takes place.
the mayor there tips off criminal illegal aliens of upcoming ice raids , she should be in jail with a few of her dem buddies from sf who are already there .

So you're changing the subject from poverty pilot studies to sanctuary city policies?
no just explaining what your party are up to with your full backing.
Why would they exclude one poor family from another is poor not poor ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 07:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:57:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:48:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.

It doesn't matter. Anything, no matter how poorly founded, that will detract from their own intellectual and moral bankruptcy. Whether it's "sleepy Joe" or denying water and snacks to people queuing up in the Georgia heat to vote (I'd love to hear a defense of that particular part of the voter suppression "election security" bill), all the GOP has to sell is fear and suspicion to try to keep themselves in power.
here's some nice democratic racism in Oakland , the city will hand out $500 checks to low income families but will exclude 10k white families eligible from receiving one . Can you defend that

Sure.

Its a pilot study targeting poor families of colour, randomly selecting 600 of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/)

I'm sure the vast majority of poor families in Oakland, be they black, white or other, will be able to avail of the normal welfare programmes while this study takes place.
the mayor there tips off criminal illegal aliens of upcoming ice raids , she should be in jail with a few of her dem buddies from sf who are already there .

So you're changing the subject from poverty pilot studies to sanctuary city policies?
no just explaining what your party are up to with your full backing.
Why would they exclude one poor family from another is poor not poor ?

Because they want to see the effects of the programme on poor people of colour who also have to deal with the legacy of racism?

But fire away, go through the details of what they're proposing and why, and what and why they should be doing it differently.

And if you want to know whether or not I fully back a particular policy, then please provide some details and I'll gladly respond. You're always very vague on particulars as if we all automatically know what it is you were just reading or listening to. I don't support each and every thing every Democratic politician or local party branch across the US does.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 07:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:57:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:48:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.

It doesn't matter. Anything, no matter how poorly founded, that will detract from their own intellectual and moral bankruptcy. Whether it's "sleepy Joe" or denying water and snacks to people queuing up in the Georgia heat to vote (I'd love to hear a defense of that particular part of the voter suppression "election security" bill), all the GOP has to sell is fear and suspicion to try to keep themselves in power.
here's some nice democratic racism in Oakland , the city will hand out $500 checks to low income families but will exclude 10k white families eligible from receiving one . Can you defend that

Sure.

Its a pilot study targeting poor families of colour, randomly selecting 600 of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/)

I'm sure the vast majority of poor families in Oakland, be they black, white or other, will be able to avail of the normal welfare programmes while this study takes place.
the mayor there tips off criminal illegal aliens of upcoming ice raids , she should be in jail with a few of her dem buddies from sf who are already there .

So you're changing the subject from poverty pilot studies to sanctuary city policies?
no just explaining what your party are up to with your full backing.
Why would they exclude one poor family from another is poor not poor ?

Because they want to see the effects of the programme on poor people of colour who also have to deal with the legacy of racism?

But fire away, go through the details of what they're proposing and why, and what and why they should be doing it differently.

And if you want to know whether or not I fully back a particular policy, then please provide some details and I'll gladly respond. You're always very vague on particulars as if we all automatically know what it is you were just reading or listening to. I don't support each and every thing every Democratic politician or local party branch across the US does.
wouldn't  excluding 10% of a population based on skin color be the definition of racism?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2021, 07:31:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 07:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:57:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:48:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 26, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
I hope gmac's ok he was fully convinced there was a Weekend at Bernie's situation happening at the Whitehouse!

Don't worry.

He can always go back to the "Joe is an unrepentant, godless, pinko socialist who is going to try to implement Soviet-style communism" option.

If Trump had put in a performance like Joe did yesterday with the crib notes and the media sheet all we would be hearing today is that he needs to be removed via the 25th Ammendment

Its always comes back to the crooked media whitey, doesn't it?

Maybe Joe should have went on streams of consciousness about bleach treatments, miracle drugs and Mexican rapists, instead of using (OMG!) notes to fall back on when discussing a wide range of issues.

I do a lot of presentations in my work. I like to have notes handy, often in the powerpoint presenter view, just in case I need them, especially when it comes to stuff like figures and stats. I guess that makes me a fraud.

Face it. The right wing media can't decide whether Joe is senile and a puppet, or a radical leftist. Because they can't deal with the actual reality that he is a moderate centrist; it leaves them little to demonize.

Fun fact: British Prime Ministers, during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, almost always refer to notes. They usually get up to the dispatch box carrying a binder full of notes. Occasionally they will read out an answer from a pre-prepared script in the notes.

It doesn't matter. Anything, no matter how poorly founded, that will detract from their own intellectual and moral bankruptcy. Whether it's "sleepy Joe" or denying water and snacks to people queuing up in the Georgia heat to vote (I'd love to hear a defense of that particular part of the voter suppression "election security" bill), all the GOP has to sell is fear and suspicion to try to keep themselves in power.
here's some nice democratic racism in Oakland , the city will hand out $500 checks to low income families but will exclude 10k white families eligible from receiving one . Can you defend that

Sure.

Its a pilot study targeting poor families of colour, randomly selecting 600 of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/24/oakland-guaranteed-income-race-wealth/)

I'm sure the vast majority of poor families in Oakland, be they black, white or other, will be able to avail of the normal welfare programmes while this study takes place.
the mayor there tips off criminal illegal aliens of upcoming ice raids , she should be in jail with a few of her dem buddies from sf who are already there .

So you're changing the subject from poverty pilot studies to sanctuary city policies?
no just explaining what your party are up to with your full backing.
Why would they exclude one poor family from another is poor not poor ?

Because they want to see the effects of the programme on poor people of colour who also have to deal with the legacy of racism?

But fire away, go through the details of what they're proposing and why, and what and why they should be doing it differently.

And if you want to know whether or not I fully back a particular policy, then please provide some details and I'll gladly respond. You're always very vague on particulars as if we all automatically know what it is you were just reading or listening to. I don't support each and every thing every Democratic politician or local party branch across the US does.
wouldn't  excluding 10% of a population based on skin color be the definition of racism?

If you are looking to see how a welfare program would benefit representatives of a group or groups historically held back by racism and still dealing with the legacy of discrimination, then no, it would not be the definition of racism.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 26, 2021, 07:51:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:29:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
J70-I haven't read the rationale for the drink/snack  ban in the voting line (the media is only reporting that it's an assault on voting rights)

But one thing I do know is that you are prohibited from campaigning within a certain number of yards of a polling station entrance. Would approaching people in a voting line offering them snacks and drinks while wearing a Biden/Trump tee shirt be see as violating that?

Secondly-what passes for a snack-could you give out Lobster Rolls for example? The biggest Trump supporter in my town is a lobster fisherman. Why couldn't he hand out uncooked lobsters if the Democrats are handing out Libster rolls?

Who would be responsible for policing what's given out?

Who would be responsible for ensuring people aren't violating the distancing rules

Edit: the prohibition is on approaching people while they are in line and handing out food/drinks. You can still set up a food/drink station and people can help themselves

Are you suggesting that people will change their vote because someone gave them a bottle of water or a slice of pizza or even a lobster roll?

If you leave the queue to go to the food station, do you get to keep your place?

I couldn't give two fucks if its someone in a Biden tshirt or a Trump tshirt. Its a stupid rule, and the fact that they would go after this right now, as part of the overall push, tells you all you need to know about the motivation of the GOP. "Election security" me arse.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/11/06/164353389/voting-queue-etiquette-hey-buddy-that-s-out-of-line

No one should be approaching anyone in a voting line imho

I would be quite agitated if I were approached regardless of which party they represented

Mind your own fvckin business.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 27, 2021, 12:11:10 PM
From today's WSJ

'Jim Eagle' and Georgia's Voting Law
Biden compares state voting bills to Jim Crow, never mind the facts.
By  The Editorial Board
Updated March 26, 2021 7:21 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
510

Voting rights advocates demonstrate in front of the Georgia Govenor's Mansion in Atlanta on March 25.
PHOTO: ERIK S LESSER/SHUTTERSTOCK
Listen to this article5 minutes

00:00
1x

Georgia passed its over-hyped voting law on Thursday, and the news was met with more of the same. President Biden said at his news conference that the voting bills percolating in GOP state Legislatures are "un-American," "sick," "pernicious," and worse: "This makes Jim Crow look like Jim Eagle. "

C'mon, man, as Mr. Biden likes to say. The comparison is grotesque, and seeing that only requires swimming sideways for a minute to escape the rip current of the media narrative. Take a look at what's actually in the legislation—and what isn't.

OPINION: POTOMAC WATCH
President Biden's First News Conference

00:00
1x
SUBSCRIBE
Georgia's new law leaves in place Sunday voting, a point of contention with earlier proposals, given that black churches have a "souls to the polls" tradition after services. The Legislature, rather, decided to expand weekend early voting statewide, by requiring two Saturdays instead of only one under current law. In total, Georgia offers three weeks of early voting, which began last year on Oct. 12. This is not exactly restrictive: Compare that with early voting that started Oct. 24 last year in New York.


The new law also leaves in place no-excuses absentee voting. Every eligible Georgia voter will continue to be allowed to request a mail ballot for the sake of simple convenience—or for no reason at all. Again, this is hardly restrictive: More than a dozen states, including Connecticut and Delaware, require mail voters to give a valid excuse.

NEWSLETTER SIGN-UP
Opinion: Morning Editorial Report

All the day's Opinion headlines.

PREVIEW
SUBSCRIBE
So what does the Georgia law do? First, it gets rid of signature matching, so election workers aren't trying to verify mail ballots by comparing John Hancocks. This subjective process should concern both sides. It creates avenues for contested outcomes, with fighting over ambiguous signatures. In 2018 about 2,400 ballots in Georgia were rejected for issues with the signature or oath, according to a recent paper in Political Research Quarterly. Those voters were 54% black.

Instead of signature matching, voters will submit a state ID number with their mail ballots or applications. This way there's no arguing over handwriting: The ID number either matches or it doesn't. Georgians who vote in person are already asked to show identification. Anyone who lacks an ID can get one for free.

The law says the state can suspend local election directors and appoint temporary replacements, which is painted as a plot against Democratic metropolitan areas. More likely it will be used on slipshod conduct in places like Floyd County, which last year initially overlooked some 2,600 ballots. The chief elections clerk was fired, but it's hard to blame the state for wanting to head off similar trouble.

Much hay is being made about a provision that prevents third parties from giving gifts, including "food and drink" to those standing in line at the polls. But the point is to prevent activists from showing up in union shirts—or National Rifle Association shirts, for that matter—and passing out drinks and snacks, with some subtle electioneering thrown in.


As for the genuinely thirsty, the new law specifically allows poll workers to provide "self-service water from an unattended receptacle." Also, the legislation recognizes that it's a failure if voters stand in line long enough to get parched. That's why it says wait times at large precincts must be measured three times throughout Election Day. If the line hits an hour, changes are required before the next election.

The law makes ballot drop boxes a permanent part of Georgia's voting architecture. The terms are tighter than they were during last year's pandemic emergency, but how is it part of "Jim Crow 2.0" to give absentee voters more options than they had in 2019? The legislation also says applications for mail ballots are due 11 days before the election, instead of four days. If that's racist, so is the U.S. Postal Service, which urges voters to allow 15 days for two-way delivery.

The runoff period will be shortened to four weeks. "The lengthy nine-week runoffs in 2020 were exhausting for candidates, donors, and electors," lawmakers said in their findings. "By adding ranked choice voting for military and overseas voters, the run-off period can be shortened to a more manageable period." This is politically touchy, since Democrats won two Senate runoffs on Jan. 5, but let's hear the policy argument for nine-week runoffs, instead of ad hominem attacks.

***
No election rules are perfect. Ballot access, integrity and administration are all important. Mr. Biden knows this. Democrats aren't smearing Georgia because they believe their "Jim Crow" nonsense. Their strategy is to play the race card to justify breaking the Senate filibuster, so they can jam through their election reform known as H.R.1 and overrule 50 state voting laws.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on March 28, 2021, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2021, 12:11:10 PM
From today's WSJ

'Jim Eagle' and Georgia's Voting Law
Biden compares state voting bills to Jim Crow, never mind the facts.
By  The Editorial Board
Updated March 26, 2021 7:21 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
510

Voting rights advocates demonstrate in front of the Georgia Govenor's Mansion in Atlanta on March 25.
PHOTO: ERIK S LESSER/SHUTTERSTOCK
Listen to this article5 minutes

00:00
1x

Georgia passed its over-hyped voting law on Thursday, and the news was met with more of the same. President Biden said at his news conference that the voting bills percolating in GOP state Legislatures are "un-American," "sick," "pernicious," and worse: "This makes Jim Crow look like Jim Eagle. "

C'mon, man, as Mr. Biden likes to say. The comparison is grotesque, and seeing that only requires swimming sideways for a minute to escape the rip current of the media narrative. Take a look at what's actually in the legislation—and what isn't.

OPINION: POTOMAC WATCH
President Biden's First News Conference

00:00
1x
SUBSCRIBE
Georgia's new law leaves in place Sunday voting, a point of contention with earlier proposals, given that black churches have a "souls to the polls" tradition after services. The Legislature, rather, decided to expand weekend early voting statewide, by requiring two Saturdays instead of only one under current law. In total, Georgia offers three weeks of early voting, which began last year on Oct. 12. This is not exactly restrictive: Compare that with early voting that started Oct. 24 last year in New York.


The new law also leaves in place no-excuses absentee voting. Every eligible Georgia voter will continue to be allowed to request a mail ballot for the sake of simple convenience—or for no reason at all. Again, this is hardly restrictive: More than a dozen states, including Connecticut and Delaware, require mail voters to give a valid excuse.

NEWSLETTER SIGN-UP
Opinion: Morning Editorial Report

All the day's Opinion headlines.

PREVIEW
SUBSCRIBE
So what does the Georgia law do? First, it gets rid of signature matching, so election workers aren't trying to verify mail ballots by comparing John Hancocks. This subjective process should concern both sides. It creates avenues for contested outcomes, with fighting over ambiguous signatures. In 2018 about 2,400 ballots in Georgia were rejected for issues with the signature or oath, according to a recent paper in Political Research Quarterly. Those voters were 54% black.

Instead of signature matching, voters will submit a state ID number with their mail ballots or applications. This way there's no arguing over handwriting: The ID number either matches or it doesn't. Georgians who vote in person are already asked to show identification. Anyone who lacks an ID can get one for free.

The law says the state can suspend local election directors and appoint temporary replacements, which is painted as a plot against Democratic metropolitan areas. More likely it will be used on slipshod conduct in places like Floyd County, which last year initially overlooked some 2,600 ballots. The chief elections clerk was fired, but it's hard to blame the state for wanting to head off similar trouble.

Much hay is being made about a provision that prevents third parties from giving gifts, including "food and drink" to those standing in line at the polls. But the point is to prevent activists from showing up in union shirts—or National Rifle Association shirts, for that matter—and passing out drinks and snacks, with some subtle electioneering thrown in.


As for the genuinely thirsty, the new law specifically allows poll workers to provide "self-service water from an unattended receptacle." Also, the legislation recognizes that it's a failure if voters stand in line long enough to get parched. That's why it says wait times at large precincts must be measured three times throughout Election Day. If the line hits an hour, changes are required before the next election.

The law makes ballot drop boxes a permanent part of Georgia's voting architecture. The terms are tighter than they were during last year's pandemic emergency, but how is it part of "Jim Crow 2.0" to give absentee voters more options than they had in 2019? The legislation also says applications for mail ballots are due 11 days before the election, instead of four days. If that's racist, so is the U.S. Postal Service, which urges voters to allow 15 days for two-way delivery.

The runoff period will be shortened to four weeks. "The lengthy nine-week runoffs in 2020 were exhausting for candidates, donors, and electors," lawmakers said in their findings. "By adding ranked choice voting for military and overseas voters, the run-off period can be shortened to a more manageable period." This is politically touchy, since Democrats won two Senate runoffs on Jan. 5, but let's hear the policy argument for nine-week runoffs, instead of ad hominem attacks.

***
No election rules are perfect. Ballot access, integrity and administration are all important. Mr. Biden knows this. Democrats aren't smearing Georgia because they believe their "Jim Crow" nonsense. Their strategy is to play the race card to justify breaking the Senate filibuster, so they can jam through their election reform known as H.R.1 and overrule 50 state voting laws.

I'm shocked.. Murdoch media has an opinion piece saying "nothing to see here" on the Republican efforts to restrict voter rights.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 29, 2021, 12:50:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 07:51:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:29:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
J70-I haven't read the rationale for the drink/snack  ban in the voting line (the media is only reporting that it's an assault on voting rights)

But one thing I do know is that you are prohibited from campaigning within a certain number of yards of a polling station entrance. Would approaching people in a voting line offering them snacks and drinks while wearing a Biden/Trump tee shirt be see as violating that?

Secondly-what passes for a snack-could you give out Lobster Rolls for example? The biggest Trump supporter in my town is a lobster fisherman. Why couldn't he hand out uncooked lobsters if the Democrats are handing out Libster rolls?

Who would be responsible for policing what's given out?

Who would be responsible for ensuring people aren't violating the distancing rules

Edit: the prohibition is on approaching people while they are in line and handing out food/drinks. You can still set up a food/drink station and people can help themselves

Are you suggesting that people will change their vote because someone gave them a bottle of water or a slice of pizza or even a lobster roll?

If you leave the queue to go to the food station, do you get to keep your place?

I couldn't give two fucks if its someone in a Biden tshirt or a Trump tshirt. Its a stupid rule, and the fact that they would go after this right now, as part of the overall push, tells you all you need to know about the motivation of the GOP. "Election security" me arse.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/11/06/164353389/voting-queue-etiquette-hey-buddy-that-s-out-of-line

No one should be approaching anyone in a voting line imho

I would be quite agitated if I were approached regardless of which party they represented

Mind your own fvckin business.

Most people aren't like you. They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza when waiting hours in a queue to vote. If you don't want it, then you can politely tell them so... like a normal human being.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 29, 2021, 01:01:28 PM
Quote from: omochain on March 28, 2021, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2021, 12:11:10 PM
From today's WSJ

'Jim Eagle' and Georgia's Voting Law
Biden compares state voting bills to Jim Crow, never mind the facts.
By  The Editorial Board
Updated March 26, 2021 7:21 pm ET
SAVE
SHARE
TEXT
510

Voting rights advocates demonstrate in front of the Georgia Govenor's Mansion in Atlanta on March 25.
PHOTO: ERIK S LESSER/SHUTTERSTOCK
Listen to this article5 minutes

00:00
1x

Georgia passed its over-hyped voting law on Thursday, and the news was met with more of the same. President Biden said at his news conference that the voting bills percolating in GOP state Legislatures are "un-American," "sick," "pernicious," and worse: "This makes Jim Crow look like Jim Eagle. "

C'mon, man, as Mr. Biden likes to say. The comparison is grotesque, and seeing that only requires swimming sideways for a minute to escape the rip current of the media narrative. Take a look at what's actually in the legislation—and what isn't.

OPINION: POTOMAC WATCH
President Biden's First News Conference

00:00
1x
SUBSCRIBE
Georgia's new law leaves in place Sunday voting, a point of contention with earlier proposals, given that black churches have a "souls to the polls" tradition after services. The Legislature, rather, decided to expand weekend early voting statewide, by requiring two Saturdays instead of only one under current law. In total, Georgia offers three weeks of early voting, which began last year on Oct. 12. This is not exactly restrictive: Compare that with early voting that started Oct. 24 last year in New York.


The new law also leaves in place no-excuses absentee voting. Every eligible Georgia voter will continue to be allowed to request a mail ballot for the sake of simple convenience—or for no reason at all. Again, this is hardly restrictive: More than a dozen states, including Connecticut and Delaware, require mail voters to give a valid excuse.

NEWSLETTER SIGN-UP
Opinion: Morning Editorial Report

All the day's Opinion headlines.

PREVIEW
SUBSCRIBE
So what does the Georgia law do? First, it gets rid of signature matching, so election workers aren't trying to verify mail ballots by comparing John Hancocks. This subjective process should concern both sides. It creates avenues for contested outcomes, with fighting over ambiguous signatures. In 2018 about 2,400 ballots in Georgia were rejected for issues with the signature or oath, according to a recent paper in Political Research Quarterly. Those voters were 54% black.

Instead of signature matching, voters will submit a state ID number with their mail ballots or applications. This way there's no arguing over handwriting: The ID number either matches or it doesn't. Georgians who vote in person are already asked to show identification. Anyone who lacks an ID can get one for free.

The law says the state can suspend local election directors and appoint temporary replacements, which is painted as a plot against Democratic metropolitan areas. More likely it will be used on slipshod conduct in places like Floyd County, which last year initially overlooked some 2,600 ballots. The chief elections clerk was fired, but it's hard to blame the state for wanting to head off similar trouble.

Much hay is being made about a provision that prevents third parties from giving gifts, including "food and drink" to those standing in line at the polls. But the point is to prevent activists from showing up in union shirts—or National Rifle Association shirts, for that matter—and passing out drinks and snacks, with some subtle electioneering thrown in.


As for the genuinely thirsty, the new law specifically allows poll workers to provide "self-service water from an unattended receptacle." Also, the legislation recognizes that it's a failure if voters stand in line long enough to get parched. That's why it says wait times at large precincts must be measured three times throughout Election Day. If the line hits an hour, changes are required before the next election.

The law makes ballot drop boxes a permanent part of Georgia's voting architecture. The terms are tighter than they were during last year's pandemic emergency, but how is it part of "Jim Crow 2.0" to give absentee voters more options than they had in 2019? The legislation also says applications for mail ballots are due 11 days before the election, instead of four days. If that's racist, so is the U.S. Postal Service, which urges voters to allow 15 days for two-way delivery.

The runoff period will be shortened to four weeks. "The lengthy nine-week runoffs in 2020 were exhausting for candidates, donors, and electors," lawmakers said in their findings. "By adding ranked choice voting for military and overseas voters, the run-off period can be shortened to a more manageable period." This is politically touchy, since Democrats won two Senate runoffs on Jan. 5, but let's hear the policy argument for nine-week runoffs, instead of ad hominem attacks.

***
No election rules are perfect. Ballot access, integrity and administration are all important. Mr. Biden knows this. Democrats aren't smearing Georgia because they believe their "Jim Crow" nonsense. Their strategy is to play the race card to justify breaking the Senate filibuster, so they can jam through their election reform known as H.R.1 and overrule 50 state voting laws.

I'm shocked.. Murdoch media has an opinion piece saying "nothing to see here" on the Republican efforts to restrict voter rights.

Yes, 250-odd bills across the country, Republicans screaming fraud and treachery (they're not saying much about the bold Sidney's "I was only joking" defense!), Trump still pushing the lie and demanding absolute fealty, but none of this has anything to do with depressing turnout.

And I love how they gently pass over the fact that this GA bill is watered-down after the initial backlash.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 29, 2021, 02:38:49 PM
Donnie is doing weddings now I see

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-crashes-mar-a-lago-wedding-to-whine-about-2020-election-loss?via=twitter_page
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 29, 2021, 02:44:44 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 29, 2021, 02:38:49 PM
Donnie is doing weddings now I see

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-crashes-mar-a-lago-wedding-to-whine-about-2020-election-loss?via=twitter_page

Its quite amusing to see him reduced to such a pathetic figure. Like a singer who once had a hit and is now playing to empty lounges.

If the GOP wanted, they could be done with him. But, they've got nothing else and their deranged base wants nothing else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 29, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
Like these sad sacks?  ;D

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/sen-ted-cruz-and-sen-lindsey-graham-stand-aboard-a-texas-department-picture-id1309314041?s=2048x2048)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 29, 2021, 03:33:09 PM
Ted Cruz, about as far from blue collar as you can find (private schools, Princeton, Harvard Law, Supreme Court clerk, high level government service ever since), trying to look tough. The man has probably never done a day's physical labour in his life. By all accounts he is brilliant, academically. You think he'd just own it instead of posing as such a transparent fraud. The Trumpsters might actually respect him then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 29, 2021, 05:20:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 29, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
Like these sad sacks?  ;D

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/sen-ted-cruz-and-sen-lindsey-graham-stand-aboard-a-texas-department-picture-id1309314041?s=2048x2048)
I saw some video he took inside a detention center where there were way too many kids especially during a pandemic and they were lined up like baked potatoes on a grill in tin foil blankets, disgraceful and mr Biden should realize his words have consequences and he is to blame for this .
Btw the lady working there did everything she could to try stop him filming , again how very ccp of them .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 29, 2021, 06:30:51 PM
There ARE far too many and the conditions are NOT acceptable. But they'll work through them and get them sorted.

What they won't do is rip the little ones out of their parents arms and ship them across the country to be lost in the system, or send unaccompanied minors back across the border to who knows what.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2021, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 29, 2021, 12:50:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 07:51:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:29:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
J70-I haven't read the rationale for the drink/snack  ban in the voting line (the media is only reporting that it's an assault on voting rights)

But one thing I do know is that you are prohibited from campaigning within a certain number of yards of a polling station entrance. Would approaching people in a voting line offering them snacks and drinks while wearing a Biden/Trump tee shirt be see as violating that?

Secondly-what passes for a snack-could you give out Lobster Rolls for example? The biggest Trump supporter in my town is a lobster fisherman. Why couldn't he hand out uncooked lobsters if the Democrats are handing out Libster rolls?

Who would be responsible for policing what's given out?

Who would be responsible for ensuring people aren't violating the distancing rules

Edit: the prohibition is on approaching people while they are in line and handing out food/drinks. You can still set up a food/drink station and people can help themselves

Are you suggesting that people will change their vote because someone gave them a bottle of water or a slice of pizza or even a lobster roll?

If you leave the queue to go to the food station, do you get to keep your place?

I couldn't give two fucks if its someone in a Biden tshirt or a Trump tshirt. Its a stupid rule, and the fact that they would go after this right now, as part of the overall push, tells you all you need to know about the motivation of the GOP. "Election security" me arse.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/11/06/164353389/voting-queue-etiquette-hey-buddy-that-s-out-of-line

No one should be approaching anyone in a voting line imho

I would be quite agitated if I were approached regardless of which party they represented

Mind your own fvckin business.

Most people aren't like you. They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza when waiting hours in a queue to vote. If you don't want it, then you can politely tell them so... like a normal human being.

Well that's just flat out misinformation

You can still avail of the offer of food or drinks...just help yourself at the unmanned station. It's called "line warming" for a reason....it's a blatant attempt to influence and warm up the voter

If anyone approached me in a voting line for whatever reason, I would instruct the police to arrest them on the spot. In my town, candidates can have donuts in the school parking lot.....you just  swing by and get one before you get in line if you eat donuts

Pretty much the only political show I listen to anymore is Michael Smerconish (who's as down the middle as you can get)

Here's his take on it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6-dGDw0kAmI&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2021, 12:34:00 AM
lol - narc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 30, 2021, 12:31:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 29, 2021, 12:50:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 07:51:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 26, 2021, 06:29:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 26, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
J70-I haven't read the rationale for the drink/snack  ban in the voting line (the media is only reporting that it's an assault on voting rights)

But one thing I do know is that you are prohibited from campaigning within a certain number of yards of a polling station entrance. Would approaching people in a voting line offering them snacks and drinks while wearing a Biden/Trump tee shirt be see as violating that?

Secondly-what passes for a snack-could you give out Lobster Rolls for example? The biggest Trump supporter in my town is a lobster fisherman. Why couldn't he hand out uncooked lobsters if the Democrats are handing out Libster rolls?

Who would be responsible for policing what's given out?

Who would be responsible for ensuring people aren't violating the distancing rules

Edit: the prohibition is on approaching people while they are in line and handing out food/drinks. You can still set up a food/drink station and people can help themselves

Are you suggesting that people will change their vote because someone gave them a bottle of water or a slice of pizza or even a lobster roll?

If you leave the queue to go to the food station, do you get to keep your place?

I couldn't give two fucks if its someone in a Biden tshirt or a Trump tshirt. Its a stupid rule, and the fact that they would go after this right now, as part of the overall push, tells you all you need to know about the motivation of the GOP. "Election security" me arse.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/11/06/164353389/voting-queue-etiquette-hey-buddy-that-s-out-of-line

No one should be approaching anyone in a voting line imho

I would be quite agitated if I were approached regardless of which party they represented

Mind your own fvckin business.

Most people aren't like you. They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza when waiting hours in a queue to vote. If you don't want it, then you can politely tell them so... like a normal human being.

Well that's just flat out misinformation

You can still avail of the offer of food or drinks...just help yourself at the unmanned station. It's called "line warming" for a reason....it's a blatant attempt to influence and warm up the voter

If anyone approached me in a voting line for whatever reason, I would instruct the police to arrest them on the spot. In my town, candidates can have donuts in the school parking lot.....you just  swing by and get one before you get in line if you eat donuts

Pretty much the only political show I listen to anymore is Michael Smerconish (who's as down the middle as you can get)

Here's his take on it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6-dGDw0kAmI&feature=youtu.be

I'm sorry, what exactly is the misinformation?

Perhaps I grew up among and know a completely different kind of people than you did, but in my experience, the vast majority of people would happily accept a bottle of water or slice or else politely refuse. Its basic manners where I come from.

They certainly wouldn't be calling the f**king cops.

And once again, who the hell is going to go into a voting booth and change their mind because someone gave them a bottle of water?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:07:14 PM
You state (

"They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza"

(Which is false)

The offer is still there.....you just can't approach people in the line. You can set up a stand where people can help themselves before during or after they stand in line to vote

Would you want to be approached while in line by a guy (legally) carrying a gun wearing an NRA tee shirt?

What if the line is 5 minutes...would they still be allowed hand stuff out?

What can you wear while handing stuff out? Could you wear an Antifa or proud boys jacket

Could you hand water out if you're carrying a gun?

Could you be dressed from head to toe in black with a ski mask

Who will police the "handed outers" to ensure they're not campaigning in the line?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 30, 2021, 05:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:07:14 PM
You state (

"They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza"

(Which is false)

The offer is still there.....you just can't approach people in the line.

Would you want to be approached while in line by a guy (legally) carrying a gun wearing an NRA tee shirt?

What if the line is 5 minutes...would they still be allowed hand stuff out?

What can you wear while handing stuff out? Could you wear an Antifa or proud boys jacket

Could you hand water out if you're carrying a gun?

Could you be dressed from head to toe in black with a ski mask

Who will police the "handed outers" to ensure they're not campaigning in the line?

How is it false?

Because YOU say so? Basic human decency and manners bedamned?

And the fact that you are now reaching for f**king antifa, men in balaclavas and people dangling weapons and the rest shows how ludicrous your argument is.

If you want to impose dress codes and ban electioneering aimed at those queuing up, there is nothing stopping rules being put in place. Employ a bunch of teenagers for the day if you want.

But banning the distribution of drinks and food to people standing in line, especially when lines might be very long and people don't want to lose their spot by heading off for refreshments, is a naked attempt to limit participation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 30, 2021, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2021, 05:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:07:14 PM
You state (

"They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza"

(Which is false)

The offer is still there.....you just can't approach people in the line.

Would you want to be approached while in line by a guy (legally) carrying a gun wearing an NRA tee shirt?

What if the line is 5 minutes...would they still be allowed hand stuff out?

What can you wear while handing stuff out? Could you wear an Antifa or proud boys jacket

Could you hand water out if you're carrying a gun?

Could you be dressed from head to toe in black with a ski mask

Who will police the "handed outers" to ensure they're not campaigning in the line?

How is it false?

Because YOU say so? Basic human decency and manners bedamned?

And the fact that you are now reaching for f**king antifa, men in balaclavas and people dangling weapons and the rest shows how ludicrous your argument is.

If you want to impose dress codes and ban electioneering aimed at those queuing up, there is nothing stopping rules being put in place. Employ a bunch of teenagers for the day if you want.

But banning the distribution of drinks and food to people standing in line, especially when lines might be very long and people don't want to lose their spot by heading off for refreshments, is a naked attempt to limit participation.
why would handing out a bottle of water be more beneficial to Democrat voters than gop ?
Is it the same with ID , do Democrat politicians think all their voters are idiots and can't get an ID and can't afford a bottle of water ? Don't Democrat voters get sick of this condescending attitude.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2021, 05:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:07:14 PM
You state (

"They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza"

(Which is false)

The offer is still there.....you just can't approach people in the line.

Would you want to be approached while in line by a guy (legally) carrying a gun wearing an NRA tee shirt?

What if the line is 5 minutes...would they still be allowed hand stuff out?

What can you wear while handing stuff out? Could you wear an Antifa or proud boys jacket

Could you hand water out if you're carrying a gun?

Could you be dressed from head to toe in black with a ski mask

Who will police the "handed outers" to ensure they're not campaigning in the line?

How is it false?

Because YOU say so? Basic human decency and manners bedamned?

And the fact that you are now reaching for f**king antifa, men in balaclavas and people dangling weapons and the rest shows how ludicrous your argument is.

If you want to impose dress codes and ban electioneering aimed at those queuing up, there is nothing stopping rules being put in place. Employ a bunch of teenagers for the day if you want.

But banning the distribution of drinks and food to people standing in line, especially when lines might be very long and people don't want to lose their spot by heading off for refreshments, is a naked attempt to limit participation.

You're very naive if you think people won't be solicited while standing in line

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/politics/giving-free-food-to-voters-allowed-in-practice-despite-legal-gray-area/RBCFSSGRJRFOLJWAIEOWYBBBHY/%3foutputType=amp

In Dougherty County, armed residents confronted volunteers for the nonprofit group Black Voters Matter who were giving out snacks and sample ballots to voters waiting in line Oct. 16

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2021, 07:05:07 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/165754523_4001523439870592_1380773494625059584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=a6pxqN7FRUsAX8J9bM4&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=bec82d2b0f28f5ec17f40374637640dc&oe=608AD888)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 30, 2021, 07:22:27 PM
Pete wants to have a mileage tax I see , what are these arsehokes smoking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2021, 08:48:14 PM
So if the new "restrictions" in Georgia are as racist and restrictive as the Democrats  claim,  then why didn't Joe do something about identical "restrictions" that existed and still exist in his home state of Delaware during the almost 40 years he represented that state in the Senate?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2021, 11:40:46 PM
Pizza-Gaetz ???

https://www.axios.com/matt-gaetz-sexual-misconduct-investigation-2755fd4f-f72e-4283-b8ac-9233c952b914.html

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on March 30, 2021, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2021, 11:40:46 PM
Pizza-Gaetz ???

https://www.axios.com/matt-gaetz-sexual-misconduct-investigation-2755fd4f-f72e-4283-b8ac-9233c952b914.html
The Qanoners won't like this, Q wasn't supposed to go after good Republican child sex abusers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2021, 02:21:55 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 30, 2021, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2021, 11:40:46 PM
Pizza-Gaetz ???

https://www.axios.com/matt-gaetz-sexual-misconduct-investigation-2755fd4f-f72e-4283-b8ac-9233c952b914.html
The Qanoners won't like this, Q wasn't supposed to go after good Republican child sex abusers

I'd be more worried about the kid he "adopted"........very weird
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 31, 2021, 02:36:22 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2021, 11:40:46 PM
Pizza-Gaetz ???

https://www.axios.com/matt-gaetz-sexual-misconduct-investigation-2755fd4f-f72e-4283-b8ac-9233c952b914.html
he should resign immediately like cuomo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2021, 02:36:22 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2021, 11:40:46 PM
Pizza-Gaetz ???

https://www.axios.com/matt-gaetz-sexual-misconduct-investigation-2755fd4f-f72e-4283-b8ac-9233c952b914.html
he should resign immediately like cuomo.

Will any GOPers call for him to resign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 12:55:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2021, 05:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:07:14 PM
You state (

"They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza"

(Which is false)

The offer is still there.....you just can't approach people in the line.

Would you want to be approached while in line by a guy (legally) carrying a gun wearing an NRA tee shirt?

What if the line is 5 minutes...would they still be allowed hand stuff out?

What can you wear while handing stuff out? Could you wear an Antifa or proud boys jacket

Could you hand water out if you're carrying a gun?

Could you be dressed from head to toe in black with a ski mask

Who will police the "handed outers" to ensure they're not campaigning in the line?

How is it false?

Because YOU say so? Basic human decency and manners bedamned?

And the fact that you are now reaching for f**king antifa, men in balaclavas and people dangling weapons and the rest shows how ludicrous your argument is.

If you want to impose dress codes and ban electioneering aimed at those queuing up, there is nothing stopping rules being put in place. Employ a bunch of teenagers for the day if you want.

But banning the distribution of drinks and food to people standing in line, especially when lines might be very long and people don't want to lose their spot by heading off for refreshments, is a naked attempt to limit participation.

You're very naive if you think people won't be solicited while standing in line

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/politics/giving-free-food-to-voters-allowed-in-practice-despite-legal-gray-area/RBCFSSGRJRFOLJWAIEOWYBBBHY/%3foutputType=amp

In Dougherty County, armed residents confronted volunteers for the nonprofit group Black Voters Matter who were giving out snacks and sample ballots to voters waiting in line Oct. 16

Again, I ask, so what?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 08:48:14 PM
So if the new "restrictions" in Georgia are as racist and restrictive as the Democrats  claim,  then why didn't Joe do something about identical "restrictions" that existed and still exist in his home state of Delaware during the almost 40 years he represented that state in the Senate?

I guess they work for the people of Delaware.

Whereas if the election didn't go how the dominant party in the state wanted it to, and they responded straight away by trying to come up with all kinds of ways to drive down participation, you might have a point.

GA's rules, and those in loads of states across the country, especially when it came to mail-in voting, worked just fine until the great orange turd decreed otherwise. Suddenly high turnout became an enemy that had to be urgently beaten back.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2021, 01:12:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 12:55:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2021, 05:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:07:14 PM
You state (

"They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza"

(Which is false)

The offer is still there.....you just can't approach people in the line.

Would you want to be approached while in line by a guy (legally) carrying a gun wearing an NRA tee shirt?

What if the line is 5 minutes...would they still be allowed hand stuff out?

What can you wear while handing stuff out? Could you wear an Antifa or proud boys jacket

Could you hand water out if you're carrying a gun?

Could you be dressed from head to toe in black with a ski mask

Who will police the "handed outers" to ensure they're not campaigning in the line?

How is it false?

Because YOU say so? Basic human decency and manners bedamned?

And the fact that you are now reaching for f**king antifa, men in balaclavas and people dangling weapons and the rest shows how ludicrous your argument is.

If you want to impose dress codes and ban electioneering aimed at those queuing up, there is nothing stopping rules being put in place. Employ a bunch of teenagers for the day if you want.

But banning the distribution of drinks and food to people standing in line, especially when lines might be very long and people don't want to lose their spot by heading off for refreshments, is a naked attempt to limit participation.

You're very naive if you think people won't be solicited while standing in line

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/politics/giving-free-food-to-voters-allowed-in-practice-despite-legal-gray-area/RBCFSSGRJRFOLJWAIEOWYBBBHY/%3foutputType=amp

In Dougherty County, armed residents confronted volunteers for the nonprofit group Black Voters Matter who were giving out snacks and sample ballots to voters waiting in line Oct. 16

Again, I ask, so what?

There have been rules since time began against campaigning at polling places....those rules are there for a reason.

Maybe you think those rules should be abolished too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 01:30:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 01:12:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 12:55:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2021, 05:25:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2021, 05:07:14 PM
You state (

"They'd be very glad to get the offer of a cold bottle of water or a slice of pizza"

(Which is false)

The offer is still there.....you just can't approach people in the line.

Would you want to be approached while in line by a guy (legally) carrying a gun wearing an NRA tee shirt?

What if the line is 5 minutes...would they still be allowed hand stuff out?

What can you wear while handing stuff out? Could you wear an Antifa or proud boys jacket

Could you hand water out if you're carrying a gun?

Could you be dressed from head to toe in black with a ski mask

Who will police the "handed outers" to ensure they're not campaigning in the line?

How is it false?

Because YOU say so? Basic human decency and manners bedamned?

And the fact that you are now reaching for f**king antifa, men in balaclavas and people dangling weapons and the rest shows how ludicrous your argument is.

If you want to impose dress codes and ban electioneering aimed at those queuing up, there is nothing stopping rules being put in place. Employ a bunch of teenagers for the day if you want.

But banning the distribution of drinks and food to people standing in line, especially when lines might be very long and people don't want to lose their spot by heading off for refreshments, is a naked attempt to limit participation.

You're very naive if you think people won't be solicited while standing in line

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/politics/giving-free-food-to-voters-allowed-in-practice-despite-legal-gray-area/RBCFSSGRJRFOLJWAIEOWYBBBHY/%3foutputType=amp

In Dougherty County, armed residents confronted volunteers for the nonprofit group Black Voters Matter who were giving out snacks and sample ballots to voters waiting in line Oct. 16

Again, I ask, so what?

There have been rules since time began against campaigning at polling places....those rules are there for a reason.

Maybe you think those rules should be abolished too.

1. I've already suggested that the drinks etc  could be distributed in a non-partisan manner. Evidently that is still not ok.
2. I didn't say anything about abolishing rules against campaigning on site. I merely asked why someone would care if BLM reps were giving out the snacks and drinks (or even sample ballots). I mean, I know why some reactionary fuckwit who doesn't like minorities and thinks cops can do no wrong might care, but the vast majority of people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2021, 01:36:50 PM
Lol-you've just proven my point

So you've gone from saying it's okay to just hand out water and snacks to now saying it's okay to hand out election literature to people waiting in line

What's next?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on March 31, 2021, 01:44:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 01:36:50 PM
Lol-you've just proven my point

So you've gone from saying it's okay to just hand out water and snacks to now saying it's okay to hand out election literature to people waiting in line

What's next?

Surely the point is to keep people safe an healthy?  i suppose if they sponges soaked in Viniger that would  be ok.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 02:16:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 01:36:50 PM
Lol-you've just proven my point

So you've gone from saying it's okay to just hand out water and snacks to now saying it's okay to hand out election literature to people waiting in line

What's next?

Proven what point?

You're jumping around like a rabbit from one issue to the next and it can be hard to keep up. One minute its water and pizza. Then we're on to antifa and BLM intimidation. All in an attempt to muddy the waters in that there is NOTHING to see here, the GOP are behaving in a perfectly reasonable and democratic fashion, and its the Dems and liberals who are at fault.

I personally have no issue with someone handing out a sample ballot. I do not see why that would upset anyone (hence my question), but I get that there are idiots out there looking for a fight, hence its probably better to keep it away from the polling queue. Is that clear enough?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2021, 02:28:21 PM
LOL

You started with just snacks and water and now you've progressed to handing out election materials to people waiting in line.

That's what the BLM group in GA was doing when they were confronted-under the guise of handing out snacks and water they started campaigning in the line which is prohibited. And that's the issue I have

There are laws against campaigning at polling places that have been in effect for centuries, and they're there for a reason





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 02:28:21 PM
LOL

You started with just snacks and water and now you've progressed to handing out election materials to people waiting in line.

That's what the BLM group in GA was doing when they were confronted-under the guise of handing out snacks and water they started campaigning in the line which is prohibited. And that's the issue I have

There are laws against campaigning at polling places that have been in effect for centuries, and they're there for a reason

You can prohibit and police the electioneering without stopping people giving out snacks and water.

As I've said a number of times...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2021, 03:11:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 02:28:21 PM
LOL

You started with just snacks and water and now you've progressed to handing out election materials to people waiting in line.

That's what the BLM group in GA was doing when they were confronted-under the guise of handing out snacks and water they started campaigning in the line which is prohibited. And that's the issue I have

There are laws against campaigning at polling places that have been in effect for centuries, and they're there for a reason

You can prohibit and police the electioneering without stopping people giving out snacks and water.

As I've said a number of times...

Who's going to police it?

Who's going to pay for it to be policed?

And by the same token you  can give out snacks and water without approaching people who are already in line......the law actually allows for that.

You set up an unmanned booth where people can grab what they want before they stand in line

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 04:53:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 03:11:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 02:28:21 PM
LOL

You started with just snacks and water and now you've progressed to handing out election materials to people waiting in line.

That's what the BLM group in GA was doing when they were confronted-under the guise of handing out snacks and water they started campaigning in the line which is prohibited. And that's the issue I have

There are laws against campaigning at polling places that have been in effect for centuries, and they're there for a reason

You can prohibit and police the electioneering without stopping people giving out snacks and water.

As I've said a number of times...

Who's going to police it?

Who's going to pay for it to be policed?

And by the same token you  can give out snacks and water without approaching people who are already in line......the law actually allows for that.

You set up an unmanned booth where people can grab what they want before they stand in line

And the law doesn't allow for people who have to wait hours and hours, as is often the case in black districts of Georgia.

Its absolutely bizarre that you would have an objection to people in the queue being provided water and snacks. And to be honest, I question your sincerity on that.

As for paying for policing, this is absolutely a situation where public expenditure can be justified. If you don't want to pony up to provide adequate resources to allow people to vote quickly and efficiently, then you need to facilitate participation in other ways.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 31, 2021, 05:01:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2021, 02:36:22 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2021, 11:40:46 PM
Pizza-Gaetz ???

https://www.axios.com/matt-gaetz-sexual-misconduct-investigation-2755fd4f-f72e-4283-b8ac-9233c952b914.html
he should resign immediately like cuomo.

Will any GOPers call for him to resign?
don't know let's see how it plays out but doesn't sound good , in cuomos case there have been quite a few accusers, Democrats in NY want to install the AG as governor who is even more loony left than cuomo  so always more to the situation than appears .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 05:21:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2021, 05:01:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2021, 02:36:22 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2021, 11:40:46 PM
Pizza-Gaetz ???

https://www.axios.com/matt-gaetz-sexual-misconduct-investigation-2755fd4f-f72e-4283-b8ac-9233c952b914.html
he should resign immediately like cuomo.

Will any GOPers call for him to resign?
don't know let's see how it plays out but doesn't sound good , in cuomos case there have been quite a few accusers, Democrats in NY want to install the AG as governor who is even more loony left than cuomo  so always more to the situation than appears .

1. I agree that it should be allowed to be played out. Gaetz is entitled to a presumption of innocence and to defend himself, just like anyone else.
2. Most NY Democrats, and all of the prominent ones, have called for Cuomo to resign. He is saying he will hang on pending the state investigation. He's entitled to do that, even though he hasn't been as generous himself in the past. Tish James is doing her job, investigating it as warranted. It was her who exposed Cuomo's number fudging on the nursing homes. Not sure what else there is to say about it in terms to there being more to it, beyond the fact that Cuomo probably won't garner much sympathy in Albany from either side of the aisle. I certainly haven't heard anything about James being "installed" to replace Cuomo. If he goes down, Kathy Hochul replaces him until 2023. That is the law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2021, 07:45:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 04:53:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 03:11:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 02:28:21 PM
LOL

You started with just snacks and water and now you've progressed to handing out election materials to people waiting in line.

That's what the BLM group in GA was doing when they were confronted-under the guise of handing out snacks and water they started campaigning in the line which is prohibited. And that's the issue I have

There are laws against campaigning at polling places that have been in effect for centuries, and they're there for a reason

You can prohibit and police the electioneering without stopping people giving out snacks and water.

As I've said a number of times...

Who's going to police it?

Who's going to pay for it to be policed?

And by the same token you  can give out snacks and water without approaching people who are already in line......the law actually allows for that.

You set up an unmanned booth where people can grab what they want before they stand in line

And the law doesn't allow for people who have to wait hours and hours, as is often the case in black districts of Georgia.

Its absolutely bizarre that you would have an objection to people in the queue being provided water and snacks. And to be honest, I question your sincerity on that.

As for paying for policing, this is absolutely a situation where public expenditure can be justified. If you don't want to pony up to provide adequate resources to allow people to vote quickly and efficiently, then you need to facilitate participation in other ways.


I have no problem people being offered water and snacks-set up a station and let them help themselves. That's what the law allows

I have a problem with people being approached and potentially canvassed while standing in line.....there's a reason why they have laws about this and these laws have been in place forever in both blue and red states

Secondly....these people who are hypothetically waiting in line can in the future avail of "no excuse" mail in ballots. In MA they even send you a letter asking you if you want one and you don't have to pay postage when you return  the request or the ballot itself

Thirdly, if lines exceed an hour (I think) at a polling booth, going forward they are mandated by law to make changes before the next election


Fourthly-based on what I saw, some people picked the first day of early voting to essentially make a point. Not saying there weren't lines on Election Day, but it would be  like going to the mall to do all your Christmas shopping the day after Thanksgiving. You could go the following day and the place would be half empty
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 07:56:09 PM
1. We'll have to agree to disagree on the water/snacks in line. I think its absolutely ludicrous and unnecessary and a purely vindictive reaction to the turnout of Democratic voters in GA.

2. Its hard to avail of a mail-in vote instead when you show up on election day or even a few days before.

3. The "going forward we'll fix it" rule is all well and good, but (a) it doesn't do much good for the voters stuck at that moment and (b) I won't hold my breath about the receptiveness and enthusiasm of GA GOP lawmakers to fix it going forward.

4. I'll have to take your word on that, but even if its true, so what? The water and snacks should still be available.

Last word on this to you...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2021, 08:57:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 07:56:09 PM
1. We'll have to agree to disagree on the water/snacks in line. I think its absolutely ludicrous and unnecessary and a purely vindictive reaction to the turnout of Democratic voters in GA.

2. Its hard to avail of a mail-in vote instead when you show up on election day or even a few days before.

3. The "going forward we'll fix it" rule is all well and good, but (a) it doesn't do much good for the voters stuck at that moment and (b) I won't hold my breath about the receptiveness and enthusiasm of GA GOP lawmakers to fix it going forward.

4. I'll have to take your word on that, but even if its true, so what? The water and snacks should still be available.

Last word on this to you...

Regarding # 2 many states prohibit same day registration (including Blue states). If you meet the cutoff you qualify for a mail in ballot (at least in MA)

So following your logic let's just have a free for all at every polling station on Election Day. Show up armed, show up dressed life Antifa, hand out Kobe beef sandwiches and Saratoga water, campaign in the line and inside the polling place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 31, 2021, 09:07:21 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/167395116_3978404988864503_2017912889174658830_n.png?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3u83TQNDV6UAX-sKLCb&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=fb3f8aac7b269c2ca7d366988a51c5d9&oe=6089A019)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2021, 09:54:36 PM
In 2020 there were 2 million extra voters and record turnout

In response they have expanded early voting and introduced no excuse vote by mail

Going forward ,The only people who wait in line for 8 hours are those who chose to do so

I haven't set foot inside a polling booth on Election Day in about 10 years due to early and absentee voting in Massachusetts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2021, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 08:57:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 07:56:09 PM
1. We'll have to agree to disagree on the water/snacks in line. I think its absolutely ludicrous and unnecessary and a purely vindictive reaction to the turnout of Democratic voters in GA.

2. Its hard to avail of a mail-in vote instead when you show up on election day or even a few days before.

3. The "going forward we'll fix it" rule is all well and good, but (a) it doesn't do much good for the voters stuck at that moment and (b) I won't hold my breath about the receptiveness and enthusiasm of GA GOP lawmakers to fix it going forward.

4. I'll have to take your word on that, but even if its true, so what? The water and snacks should still be available.

Last word on this to you...

Regarding # 2 many states prohibit same day registration (including Blue states). If you meet the cutoff you qualify for a mail in ballot (at least in MA)

So following your logic let's just have a free for all at every polling station on Election Day. Show up armed, show up dressed life Antifa, hand out Kobe beef sandwiches and Saratoga water, campaign in the line and inside the polling place.

Yes, that is what I said. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 01, 2021, 12:00:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 31, 2021, 09:07:21 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/167395116_3978404988864503_2017912889174658830_n.png?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3u83TQNDV6UAX-sKLCb&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=fb3f8aac7b269c2ca7d366988a51c5d9&oe=6089A019)
more black people show up in person and later in day maybe or has to be racism ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2021, 12:21:18 AM
So now we are getting lectured that black people shouldn't just show up on election day and should partake more in postal voting?

And this after a full-on campaign (followed by a fomented, attempted coup) by Trump and the GOP that postal voting = fraud! (He's still going on about it for anyone who has missed it)

Its funny how these things always hit minorities, especially blacks, the worst, and how they've gotten worse since the Supreme Court threw out the Voting Rights Act, but there is no way that there's any malignant intent involved.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2021, 12:31:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2021, 08:57:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2021, 07:56:09 PM
1. We'll have to agree to disagree on the water/snacks in line. I think its absolutely ludicrous and unnecessary and a purely vindictive reaction to the turnout of Democratic voters in GA.

2. Its hard to avail of a mail-in vote instead when you show up on election day or even a few days before.

3. The "going forward we'll fix it" rule is all well and good, but (a) it doesn't do much good for the voters stuck at that moment and (b) I won't hold my breath about the receptiveness and enthusiasm of GA GOP lawmakers to fix it going forward.

4. I'll have to take your word on that, but even if its true, so what? The water and snacks should still be available.

Last word on this to you...

Regarding # 2 many states prohibit same day registration (including Blue states). If you meet the cutoff you qualify for a mail in ballot (at least in MA)

So following your logic let's just have a free for all at every polling station on Election Day. Show up armed, show up dressed life Antifa, hand out Kobe beef sandwiches and Saratoga water, campaign in the line and inside the polling place.

Yes, that is what I said. ::)

Many blue states don't have same day registration either you know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 01, 2021, 01:15:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2021, 12:21:18 AM
So now we are getting lectured that black people shouldn't just show up on election day and should partake more in postal voting?

And this after a full-on campaign (followed by a fomented, attempted coup) by Trump and the GOP that postal voting = fraud! (He's still going on about it for anyone who has missed it)

Its funny how these things always hit minorities, especially blacks, the worst, and how they've gotten worse since the Supreme Court threw out the Voting Rights Act, but there is no way that there's any malignant intent involved.
who is running those polling stations gop people or local  Democrats?
Eamon just posted something to stir doesn't mean it's true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2021, 10:12:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2021, 01:15:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2021, 12:21:18 AM
So now we are getting lectured that black people shouldn't just show up on election day and should partake more in postal voting?

And this after a full-on campaign (followed by a fomented, attempted coup) by Trump and the GOP that postal voting = fraud! (He's still going on about it for anyone who has missed it)

Its funny how these things always hit minorities, especially blacks, the worst, and how they've gotten worse since the Supreme Court threw out the Voting Rights Act, but there is no way that there's any malignant intent involved.
who is running those polling stations gop people or local  Democrats?
Eamon just posted something to stir doesn't mean it's true

The GOP is and has been in charge of GA, including voting resources and rules.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2021, 04:27:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2021, 10:12:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2021, 01:15:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2021, 12:21:18 AM
So now we are getting lectured that black people shouldn't just show up on election day and should partake more in postal voting?

And this after a full-on campaign (followed by a fomented, attempted coup) by Trump and the GOP that postal voting = fraud! (He's still going on about it for anyone who has missed it)

Its funny how these things always hit minorities, especially blacks, the worst, and how they've gotten worse since the Supreme Court threw out the Voting Rights Act, but there is no way that there's any malignant intent involved.
who is running those polling stations gop people or local  Democrats?
Eamon just posted something to stir doesn't mean it's true

The GOP is and has been in charge of GA, including voting resources and rules.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924527679/why-do-nonwhite-georgia-voters-have-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl


"Besides the board's actions, the Georgia Senate considered a proposal filed in February and endorsed by Raffensperger. It would have required county elections supervisors to add more equipment or poll workers, or split up any precincts with more than 2,000 voters, if there was a wait longer than an hour measured at three points on Election Day.

More than 1,500 of Georgia's 2,655 precincts have at least 2,000 voters — many of them in urban Democratic counties — and Raffensperger said at the time that voters should never have to wait more than 30 minutes.

But the bill, SB 463, was opposed by Democratic lawmakers and voting rights groups, who argued that any revamping in an election year would cause confusion and create more ways to keep people from casting their ballot."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2021, 05:45:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 04:27:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2021, 10:12:56 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2021, 01:15:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2021, 12:21:18 AM
So now we are getting lectured that black people shouldn't just show up on election day and should partake more in postal voting?

And this after a full-on campaign (followed by a fomented, attempted coup) by Trump and the GOP that postal voting = fraud! (He's still going on about it for anyone who has missed it)

Its funny how these things always hit minorities, especially blacks, the worst, and how they've gotten worse since the Supreme Court threw out the Voting Rights Act, but there is no way that there's any malignant intent involved.
who is running those polling stations gop people or local  Democrats?
Eamon just posted something to stir doesn't mean it's true

The GOP is and has been in charge of GA, including voting resources and rules.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924527679/why-do-nonwhite-georgia-voters-have-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl


"Besides the board's actions, the Georgia Senate considered a proposal filed in February and endorsed by Raffensperger. It would have required county elections supervisors to add more equipment or poll workers, or split up any precincts with more than 2,000 voters, if there was a wait longer than an hour measured at three points on Election Day.

More than 1,500 of Georgia's 2,655 precincts have at least 2,000 voters — many of them in urban Democratic counties — and Raffensperger said at the time that voters should never have to wait more than 30 minutes.

But the bill, SB 463, was opposed by Democratic lawmakers and voting rights groups, who argued that any revamping in an election year would cause confusion and create more ways to keep people from casting their ballot."

Did you read the entire article, or just pull out that paragraph?

Raffensperger seems like a respectable politician to me, at least trying to do the right thing. If only the GOP had a few more like him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2021, 06:02:29 PM
Oh I read it alright

Just proves it's not as black and white as you guys are making it out to be (no pun intended)

How many of the issues would have been solved if this law was passed?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/bill-add-georgia-precincts-faces-unexpected-opponent-voting-groups/CqngPZCnA9mSNBqQcRYyxO/%3foutputType=amp


The main sticking point seems to be the automatic mailing of ballots to every registered voter. In bluest of blue Massachusetts they don't even do that.....you have to request it

And what happened in RI is exactly why you don't send ballots out unsolicited

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/1581900453204/data-100k-mail-in-ballots-returned-as-undeliverable-in-rhode-island
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2021, 06:50:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 06:02:29 PM
Oh I read it alright

Just proves it's not as black and white as you guys are making it out to be (no pun intended)

How many of the issues would have been solved if this law was passed?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/bill-add-georgia-precincts-faces-unexpected-opponent-voting-groups/CqngPZCnA9mSNBqQcRYyxO/%3foutputType=amp


The main sticking point seems to be the automatic mailing of ballots to every registered voter. In bluest of blue Massachusetts they don't even do that.....you have to request it

And what happened in RI is exactly why you don't send ballots out unsolicited

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/1581900453204/data-100k-mail-in-ballots-returned-as-undeliverable-in-rhode-island

WOULD the issues have been solved? What steps were GA proposing to inform people of changes in their polling location and avoid election day chaos if the bill had passed? This appears to have been a major concern for the GA Dems i.e. long-standing polling locations changing in the period between the primary and the general election. And its not like GOP operatives in the south haven't in the past tried to sow confusion among minority voters in terms of polling locations and dates.

How did the unsolicited mail ballots go in all the other states that did it? How did they go in GA for the primaries?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2021, 09:06:36 PM
So in other words whatever the Republicans did to solve the anticipated problems it was never going to satisfy the Democrats

Damned if you do....damned if you don't

(Funny how I needed a work colleague to tell me about this.....very scant coverage in the media who are up in arms over "voter suppression " telling the whole story )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2021, 11:57:47 PM
So did Trump win or was he robbed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2021, 12:11:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2021, 11:57:47 PM
So did Trump win or was he robbed?

He lost (not by a lot, but he lost fair and square)

(Approx 50,000 votes spread across the swing states was the difference)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 02, 2021, 07:55:05 AM
Coming from the Notth of Ireland, I find it bizarre that voter ID requirement is "voter suppression".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2021, 10:12:28 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 02, 2021, 07:55:05 AM
Coming from the Notth of Ireland, I find it bizarre that voter ID requirement is "voter suppression".

And most states will give you a free one if you can't afford one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:41:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 09:06:36 PM
So in other words whatever the Republicans did to solve the anticipated problems it was never going to satisfy the Democrats

Damned if you do....damned if you don't

(Funny how I needed a work colleague to tell me about this.....very scant coverage in the media who are up in arms over "voter suppression " telling the whole story )

Well if they hadn't shut down the voting places in the first place. Or if they had taken heed of the massive turnout in 2018 and moved to address this BEFORE the 2020 primaries. Or didn't have their general historical record and questionable good faith and a sitting president ranting and raving about fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2021, 11:57:47 PM
So did Trump win or was he robbed?

A good chunk of the US population believes he was robbed.

Many of the same people also believe white christians are being oppressed and the Democrats and "deep state" are trafficking and sacrificing children.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

An eight hour wait is better than showing up at what you thought was your local polling location and being told you're not on the list.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2021, 12:54:30 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

When more than 2 million extra people registered to vote in Georgia the Republicans came up with a plan to open more polling stations and hire more polling workers (so that no more than 2000 people would be assigned to any individual polling station)

The Democrats felt that (potentially) moving peoples polling stations during an election year would cause "confusion" and depress turnout and therefore was an attempt at voter suppression

So they voted it down

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/bill-add-georgia-precincts-faces-unexpected-opponent-voting-groups/CqngPZCnA9mSNBqQcRYyxO/%3foutputType=amp


Of course this fact is barely if ever mentioned by the main stream media

I would regard myself as very well informed, but even I didn't know about this until I asked a work colleague who lives in Atlanta

(I doubt J70 or Eamonn knew about it either, and even if they did they probably swallowed the Democratic talking points hook line and sinker)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:02:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

An eight hour wait is better than showing up at what you thought was your local polling location and being told you're not on the list.

J70-you're really shameless when it comes spreading misinformation

And what happens if your name is not on the list....yes....you cast a provisional ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/admin/files/GAInfoguide.pdf


Regarding provisional ballots

"If you were eligible to vote but voted in the wrong precinct, only the votes for candidates for which you were entitled to vote will be counted, and you will be notified in writing that your ballot was partially counted for your correct precinct."


So your vote is guaranteed to be counted for the important ones like President, Senate, Governor, Secretary of State. Very slight chance that your Congressional District might change, but that happens all the time anyway (in both red and blue states)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:10:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 12:54:30 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

When more than 2 million extra people registered to vote in Georgia the Republicans came up with a plan to open more polling stations and hire more polling workers (so that no more than 2000 people would be assigned to any individual polling station)

The Democrats felt that (potentially) moving peoples polling stations during an election year would cause "confusion" and depress turnout and therefore was an attempt at voter suppression

So they voted it down

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/bill-add-georgia-precincts-faces-unexpected-opponent-voting-groups/CqngPZCnA9mSNBqQcRYyxO/%3foutputType=amp


Of course this fact is barely if ever mentioned by the main stream media

I would regard myself as very well informed, but even I didn't know about this until I asked a work colleague who lives in Atlanta

(I doubt J70 or Eamonn knew about it either, and even if they did they probably swallowed the Democratic talking points hook line and sinker)


Never mind the actual history of GA and conservatives in that state (I say conservatives to include the old Democratic party before the switch). Context and experience and real concerns of advocates for minority voters are irrelevant and illegitimate.

And never mind that the Republican speaker of the House said, out loud (before trying to "clarify"), about the bill that expanded mail-in voting "will be extremely devastating to Republicans and conservatives in Georgia."

This all about good faith GOP efforts and treacherous, lying Dems.

https://apnews.com/article/522295c7edb7039c7a7f2b96e870e2a8 (https://apnews.com/article/522295c7edb7039c7a7f2b96e870e2a8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

An eight hour wait is better than showing up at what you thought was your local polling location and being told you're not on the list.
Surely this can be communicated to people well in advance? And on the odd occasion they go to the wrong spot it shouldn't be that big a deal to get to the correct one if the lines are reasonably short?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Don't mind the facts J70

Just start a good rant and keep spreading lies that are dividing the country

You should be ashamed of yourself
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:19:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

An eight hour wait is better than showing up at what you thought was your local polling location and being told you're not on the list.
Surely this can be communicated to people well in advance? And on the odd occasion they go to the wrong spot it shouldn't be that big a deal to get to the correct one if the lines are reasonably short?

It is

And somehow if you still show up at the wrong place you then cast a provisional ballot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:02:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

An eight hour wait is better than showing up at what you thought was your local polling location and being told you're not on the list.

J70-you're really shameless when it comes spreading misinformation

And what happens if your name is not on the list....yes....you cast a provisional ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/admin/files/GAInfoguide.pdf


Regarding provisional ballots

"If you were eligible to vote but voted in the wrong precinct, only the votes for candidates for which you were entitled to vote will be counted, and you will be notified in writing that your ballot was partially counted for your correct precinct."


So your vote is guaranteed to be counted for the important ones like President, Senate, Governor, Secretary of State. Very slight chance that your Congressional District might change, but that happens all the time anyway (in both red and blue states)

Sorry to disappoint, but that was not a shameless, or any other, attempt at misrepresentation on my part. Simply didn't think the response through.

If I have a history of shameless spreading of misinformation, please point it out.

And I would still be absolutely furious if I showed up, queued for whatever length of time, and then had to be informed that I wasn't on the list and had the option of either going to the "correct" location, or casting a provisional ballot, which might also mean having to come back again to verify my details.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Don't mind the facts J70

Just start a good rant and keep spreading lies that are dividing the country

You should be ashamed of yourself

You want to get personal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:31:57 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

An eight hour wait is better than showing up at what you thought was your local polling location and being told you're not on the list.
Surely this can be communicated to people well in advance? And on the odd occasion they go to the wrong spot it shouldn't be that big a deal to get to the correct one if the lines are reasonably short?

Evidently the Dems and their activist groups were unconvinced about the adequacy of the GOP proposals to communicate the info. And the concern wasn't the odd wrong person. Throw in concerns about hundreds of thousands of people being wrongfully removed from voting lists too. (Not just a GA problem - there was chaos in Brooklyn a few years back after voter roll purges).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2021, 02:44:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:02:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

An eight hour wait is better than showing up at what you thought was your local polling location and being told you're not on the list.

J70-you're really shameless when it comes spreading misinformation

And what happens if your name is not on the list....yes....you cast a provisional ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/admin/files/GAInfoguide.pdf


Regarding provisional ballots

"If you were eligible to vote but voted in the wrong precinct, only the votes for candidates for which you were entitled to vote will be counted, and you will be notified in writing that your ballot was partially counted for your correct precinct."


So your vote is guaranteed to be counted for the important ones like President, Senate, Governor, Secretary of State. Very slight chance that your Congressional District might change, but that happens all the time anyway (in both red and blue states)

Sorry to disappoint, but that was not a shameless, or any other, attempt at misrepresentation on my part. Simply didn't think the response through.

If I have a history of shameless spreading of misinformation, please point it out.

And I would still be absolutely furious if I showed up, queued for whatever length of time, and then had to be informed that I wasn't on the list and had the option of either going to the "correct" location, or casting a provisional ballot, which might also mean having to come back again to verify my details.


While you are at it, maybe you could be absolutely furious at yourself for not checking where you are supposed to vote.....takes about 60 seconds

You implied in your response that if you showed up at the incorrect polling place you were not allowed to vote. That is flat out false

The Democrats using that the main reason to turn down the offer of additional polling places in minority neighborhoods after record new registrations is outrageous to say the least



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2021, 02:50:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Don't mind the facts J70

Just start a good rant and keep spreading lies that are dividing the country

You should be ashamed of yourself

You want to get personal?

You're a smart person

Why do you just constantly repeat Democratic talking points, without using your intelligence to actually differentiate between facts and spin?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 02:44:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:02:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 01, 2021, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 09:17:36 PM
How about more polling booths? 8 hours is ridiculous ffs.

The Republicans offered that but the Democrats voted it down because they felt it would cause confusion
Seriously? Surely anything is better than an 8 hr wait

An eight hour wait is better than showing up at what you thought was your local polling location and being told you're not on the list.

J70-you're really shameless when it comes spreading misinformation

And what happens if your name is not on the list....yes....you cast a provisional ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/admin/files/GAInfoguide.pdf


Regarding provisional ballots

"If you were eligible to vote but voted in the wrong precinct, only the votes for candidates for which you were entitled to vote will be counted, and you will be notified in writing that your ballot was partially counted for your correct precinct."


So your vote is guaranteed to be counted for the important ones like President, Senate, Governor, Secretary of State. Very slight chance that your Congressional District might change, but that happens all the time anyway (in both red and blue states)

Sorry to disappoint, but that was not a shameless, or any other, attempt at misrepresentation on my part. Simply didn't think the response through.

If I have a history of shameless spreading of misinformation, please point it out.

And I would still be absolutely furious if I showed up, queued for whatever length of time, and then had to be informed that I wasn't on the list and had the option of either going to the "correct" location, or casting a provisional ballot, which might also mean having to come back again to verify my details.

You implied in your response that if you showed up at the incorrect polling place you were not allowed to vote. That is flat out false

The Democrats using that the main reason to turn down the offer of additional polling places in minority neighborhoods after record new registrations is outrageous to say the least

As I said in the very response you quoted, that implication was not my intention. I hadn't thought it through before answering Armagh18. It happens sometimes.

So you are saying that potential masses of people having to cast provisional ballots would not, and has never been a problem, including in Georgia? No problems on election day trying to cast them? No problems in trying to reconcile them afterwards?

And just so we're clear, I'm not IMPLYING anything. I'm asking. Given that the Dems were engaged in (at least) outrageous behaviour.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 03:10:16 PM
The Georgia outrage of course is a smokescreen to keep your eyes off the southern border where the situation is descending into a complete disaster where illegals are just being released into the country with no court date because thee are so many and the agencies can't handle them . What sort of administration sabotages their own country ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:27:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 02:50:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Don't mind the facts J70

Just start a good rant and keep spreading lies that are dividing the country

You should be ashamed of yourself

You want to get personal?

You're a smart person

Why do you just constantly repeat Democratic talking points, without using your intelligence to actually differentiate between facts and spin?

Believe it or not, I don't go looking up MSNBC or the DNC spin releases to get my information. The bit that angered you this morning was simply my posting something without thinking it through. I'm not aware of any other "misinformation" or "Democratic talking points" that I've posted. I stand by my views on the water/snack issue.

My opinions are my own. They just happen to align much more with the Democrats than they do with what is left of the Republican Party. The Democrats ideas are, for the most part, based on decency and a realistic and intellectually honest view of science,  morality and the needs of people and the environment. The GOP ideas, such as they are, are based almost purely on loyalty to Donald Trump, white people as victims, and owning the libs.   

As I've said before, the vast majority of our exchanges are me responding to some complaint YOU have about something the Dems or the media do or did. You charge in, with absolute certainty, proclaiming something the Dems or the media did as terrible or repugnant or hypocritical. I then question your certainty. And around and around we go, almost every time.

You may be right about what happened in Georgia, that the Democrats should have agreed to that deal, that it would have worked out better. I concede that because of Raffensperger, and because I honestly don't know enough about the background of what took place. But again, I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate to your certainty about the "outrageousness" of what the Dems did.

As I see it, you're pissed off about the backlash to and criticism of the GA voting changes and the similar bills being lined up across the country. I see them as part of an GOP response to high voter turnout (which they openly acknowledge as harmful to their prospects) and the party's mass embrace of a false conspiracy theory that culminated in the events of January 6th. Individually, certain changes may be well intended, but others clearly aren't, and the timing of this movement cannot be explained away.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:29:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 03:10:16 PM
The Georgia outrage of course is a smokescreen to keep your eyes off the southern border where the situation is descending into a complete disaster where illegals are just being released into the country with no court date because thee are so many and the agencies can't handle them . What sort of administration sabotages their own country ?

I'm seeing the border problems on the NBC nightly news every day.

GA voting stuff, not so much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 03:31:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:29:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 03:10:16 PM
The Georgia outrage of course is a smokescreen to keep your eyes off the southern border where the situation is descending into a complete disaster where illegals are just being released into the country with no court date because thee are so many and the agencies can't handle them . What sort of administration sabotages their own country ?

I'm seeing the border problems on the NBC nightly news every day.

GA voting stuff, not so much.
you aren't hearing about it from administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:50:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 03:31:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:29:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 03:10:16 PM
The Georgia outrage of course is a smokescreen to keep your eyes off the southern border where the situation is descending into a complete disaster where illegals are just being released into the country with no court date because thee are so many and the agencies can't handle them . What sort of administration sabotages their own country ?

I'm seeing the border problems on the NBC nightly news every day.

GA voting stuff, not so much.
you aren't hearing about it from administration

Here's something from yesterday: https://www.npr.org/2021/04/01/982795844/biden-administration-considers-overhaul-of-asylum-system-at-southern-border (https://www.npr.org/2021/04/01/982795844/biden-administration-considers-overhaul-of-asylum-system-at-southern-border)

They let the press into one of the overcrowded facilities earlier this week: https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national-politics/biden-admin-allows-reporters-inside-border-detention-facility-revealing-overcrowded-conditions (https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national-politics/biden-admin-allows-reporters-inside-border-detention-facility-revealing-overcrowded-conditions)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
Plus, its Infrastructure Week.  ;)

This time with actual proposals!

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
Plus, its Infrastructure Week.  ;)

This time with actual proposals!

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan)
billions for bullet trains to nowhere like California you mean , hunter probably a good consultant for that project.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 04:42:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
Plus, its Infrastructure Week.  ;)

This time with actual proposals!

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan)
billions for bullet trains to nowhere like California you mean , hunter probably a good consultant for that project.

Or proposals that acknowledge the reality of things like climate change, rather than pretending that it, and its effects on things like infrastructure, does not exist.

Might be incentives available for Texas to winterproof its electrical production and distribution.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 05:07:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 04:42:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
Plus, its Infrastructure Week.  ;)

This time with actual proposals!

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan)
billions for bullet trains to nowhere like California you mean , hunter probably a good consultant for that project.

Or proposals that acknowledge the reality of things like climate change, rather than pretending that it, and its effects on things like infrastructure, does not exist.

Might be incentives available for Texas to winterproof its electrical production and distribution.
a once a century ice storm ?
In California roads, bridges , railway lines all need upgrades don't know how that helps climate change,
Saw a video of the transport secretary pulling his bike out of the back of an suv and cycling to work the last few hundred yards with security in the suv behind him,  they are so fake you couldn't make it up .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 02, 2021, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:27:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 02:50:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Don't mind the facts J70

Just start a good rant and keep spreading lies that are dividing the country

You should be ashamed of yourself

You want to get personal?

You're a smart person

Why do you just constantly repeat Democratic talking points, without using your intelligence to actually differentiate between facts and spin?

Believe it or not, I don't go looking up MSNBC or the DNC spin releases to get my information. The bit that angered you this morning was simply my posting something without thinking it through. I'm not aware of any other "misinformation" or "Democratic talking points" that I've posted. I stand by my views on the water/snack issue.

My opinions are my own. They just happen to align much more with the Democrats than they do with what is left of the Republican Party. The Democrats ideas are, for the most part, based on decency and a realistic and intellectually honest view of science,  morality and the needs of people and the environment. The GOP ideas, such as they are, are based almost purely on loyalty to Donald Trump, white people as victims, and owning the libs.   

As I've said before, the vast majority of our exchanges are me responding to some complaint YOU have about something the Dems or the media do or did. You charge in, with absolute certainty, proclaiming something the Dems or the media did as terrible or repugnant or hypocritical. I then question your certainty. And around and around we go, almost every time.

You may be right about what happened in Georgia, that the Democrats should have agreed to that deal, that it would have worked out better. I concede that because of Raffensperger, and because I honestly don't know enough about the background of what took place. But again, I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate to your certainty about the "outrageousness" of what the Dems did.

As I see it, you're pissed off about the backlash to and criticism of the GA voting changes and the similar bills being lined up across the country. I see them as part of an GOP response to high voter turnout (which they openly acknowledge as harmful to their prospects) and the party's mass embrace of a false conspiracy theory that culminated in the events of January 6th. Individually, certain changes may be well intended, but others clearly aren't, and the timing of this movement cannot be explained away.

I would agree-Republican efforts at maintaining "election integrity" are not always on the up and up, but now any effort at streamlining or improving the process is automatically branded  as voter suppression. That is both dishonest and divisive.

I had no idea that Republicans tried to pass that bill ( to expand polling locations) until I actually spoke to someone who lives in Georgia. By the sounds of it, you didn't know about it either.

How can 2 well informed posters not know about something as relevant and significant to the discussion as that? What does that say about the media coverage of the issue

For every story about an 8 hour voting line, how many stories were there about the Republican efforts to pass the bill?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 05:47:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 05:07:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 04:42:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
Plus, its Infrastructure Week.  ;)

This time with actual proposals!

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/982666869/watch-live-president-biden-unveils-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan)
billions for bullet trains to nowhere like California you mean , hunter probably a good consultant for that project.

Or proposals that acknowledge the reality of things like climate change, rather than pretending that it, and its effects on things like infrastructure, does not exist.

Might be incentives available for Texas to winterproof its electrical production and distribution.
a once a century ice storm ?
In California roads, bridges , railway lines all need upgrades don't know how that helps climate change,
Saw a video of the transport secretary pulling his bike out of the back of an suv and cycling to work the last few hundred yards with security in the suv behind him,  they are so fake you couldn't make it up .

A once in a century ice storm that is likely going to happen with much higher frequency going forward.

I didn't say EVERYTHING in the proposals was climate change-related. But, some of it is. And that is as it should be.

Supposedly they are planning to upgrade 10,000 bridges in all, including a dozen major ones.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 03:27:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 02:50:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 02, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Don't mind the facts J70

Just start a good rant and keep spreading lies that are dividing the country

You should be ashamed of yourself

You want to get personal?

You're a smart person

Why do you just constantly repeat Democratic talking points, without using your intelligence to actually differentiate between facts and spin?

Believe it or not, I don't go looking up MSNBC or the DNC spin releases to get my information. The bit that angered you this morning was simply my posting something without thinking it through. I'm not aware of any other "misinformation" or "Democratic talking points" that I've posted. I stand by my views on the water/snack issue.

My opinions are my own. They just happen to align much more with the Democrats than they do with what is left of the Republican Party. The Democrats ideas are, for the most part, based on decency and a realistic and intellectually honest view of science,  morality and the needs of people and the environment. The GOP ideas, such as they are, are based almost purely on loyalty to Donald Trump, white people as victims, and owning the libs.   

As I've said before, the vast majority of our exchanges are me responding to some complaint YOU have about something the Dems or the media do or did. You charge in, with absolute certainty, proclaiming something the Dems or the media did as terrible or repugnant or hypocritical. I then question your certainty. And around and around we go, almost every time.

You may be right about what happened in Georgia, that the Democrats should have agreed to that deal, that it would have worked out better. I concede that because of Raffensperger, and because I honestly don't know enough about the background of what took place. But again, I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate to your certainty about the "outrageousness" of what the Dems did.

As I see it, you're pissed off about the backlash to and criticism of the GA voting changes and the similar bills being lined up across the country. I see them as part of an GOP response to high voter turnout (which they openly acknowledge as harmful to their prospects) and the party's mass embrace of a false conspiracy theory that culminated in the events of January 6th. Individually, certain changes may be well intended, but others clearly aren't, and the timing of this movement cannot be explained away.

I would agree-Republican efforts at maintaining "election integrity" are not always on the up and up, but now any effort at streamlining or improving the process is automatically branded  as voter suppression. That is both dishonest and divisive.

I had no idea that Republicans tried to pass that bill ( to expand polling locations) until I actually spoke to someone who lives in Georgia. By the sounds of it, you didn't know about it either.

How can 2 well informed posters not know about something as relevant and significant to the discussion as that? What does that say about the media coverage of the issue

For every story about an 8 hour voting line, how many stories were there about the Republican efforts to pass the bill?

No idea. But I don't recall, say, the GA GOP proposals in the same bill to halt issuance of unsolicited mail ballot applications to everyone being mentioned in the national conversation either.

GA is major news right now because

1. GA was the first of a number of states to go ahead and pass these measures.
2. Trump so recently made such a stink about and tried to coerce the GA Secretary of State into fixing the election for him.
3. The counts and recounts took weeks.
4. The run-offs in the Senate took weeks, during which Trump was still screaming fraud, again, all very recent.


Voting is a new element of the culture war. You have one party, completely consumed by a virtually non-existent problem of voter fraud and in thrall to Trump's ego, whose supporters think their guy was robbed, embarking on a national campaign to change voting rules in the immediate aftermath of an election their guy, aided and abetted by the party, tried to steal.

And this is before the next round of gerrymandering of House districts begins in the coming months. Wait until that shit starts!

The other party playing defense against all of this.

IMO it should be taken out of the hands of both and there should be some kind of independent, bipartisan commission to come up with a uniform set of rules for the country, complete with postal vote rules, ID rules, signature rules, the whole lot. Take the redistricting out of the hands of the state legislatures and let independent panels come up with constituencies that don't look like some tapeworm or work of modern art.

Might help take a bit of heat out of the discourse, and lower the chances of extremist buffoons winning primary contests. If someone, whether Dem or GOP, has to appeal to a broad swathe of the political spectrum to get elected, there'll be less chance of the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene soiling the floors of the Congress.

A newly sane GOP is desperately needed in this country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2021, 07:55:15 PM
Another US Capitol cop killed today.

The killer is dead too.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/apr/02/joe-biden-us-politics-economy-jobs-report-covid-latest-news (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/apr/02/joe-biden-us-politics-economy-jobs-report-covid-latest-news)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2021, 08:00:48 PM
Quote@JeffPassan

Huge news: Major League Baseball announces it will be moving the All-Star Game from Atlanta in response to the new voting laws passed by Georgia.

Cue the "stick to sports" comments
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 07:55:15 PM
Another US Capitol cop killed today.

The killer is dead too.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/apr/02/joe-biden-us-politics-economy-jobs-report-covid-latest-news (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/apr/02/joe-biden-us-politics-economy-jobs-report-covid-latest-news)
25 year old Noah green from Indiana confirmed as the killer
Facebook have removed his account I wonder why .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 03, 2021, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2021, 08:00:48 PM
Quote@JeffPassan

Huge news: Major League Baseball announces it will be moving the All-Star Game from Atlanta in response to the new voting laws passed by Georgia.

Cue the "stick to sports" comments
very racist from mlb taking millions of dollars out of a majority African American city which needs the business.
Watch out for gop going after mlb anti trust status .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 03, 2021, 01:00:48 AM
MLB is BLM spelt backwards.
It's all beginning to make sense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2021, 02:06:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2021, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2021, 07:55:15 PM
Another US Capitol cop killed today.

The killer is dead too.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/apr/02/joe-biden-us-politics-economy-jobs-report-covid-latest-news (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/apr/02/joe-biden-us-politics-economy-jobs-report-covid-latest-news)
25 year old Noah green from Indiana confirmed as the killer
Facebook have removed his account I wonder why .

Because they always do??

But go ahead and give us your theory.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2021, 02:07:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 03, 2021, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 02, 2021, 08:00:48 PM
Quote@JeffPassan

Huge news: Major League Baseball announces it will be moving the All-Star Game from Atlanta in response to the new voting laws passed by Georgia.

Cue the "stick to sports" comments
very racist from mlb taking millions of dollars out of a majority African American city which needs the business.
Watch out for gop going after mlb anti trust status .

Anti-trust status?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2021, 02:17:40 AM
Apparently the Capitol Hill murderer was a Nation of Islam enthusiast.

Don't know much about them beyond the anti semitism and anti-white racist reputation of Farrakhan, their murder of Malcolm X, their black separatist views and apparently bizarre theology.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 03, 2021, 02:43:36 AM
https://twitter.com/harikunzru/status/1363567793245990914/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/harikunzru/status/1363567793245990914/photo/1)

There's a lot more still to come out on X's assassination.  Here's a recent deathbed confession by NYPD ex cop on his, and his dept's involvement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on April 03, 2021, 03:30:53 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 03, 2021, 02:43:36 AM
https://twitter.com/harikunzru/status/1363567793245990914/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/harikunzru/status/1363567793245990914/photo/1)

There's a lot more still to come out on X's assassination.  Here's a recent deathbed confession by NYPD ex cop on his, and his dept's involvement.

Hopefully he will now start questioning the rest of his belief systems, the description of the Democratic Party was some laugh.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 03, 2021, 03:39:18 AM
I don't understand.  The guy who wrote this is now dead. Who are you referring to when you say you hope he will reassess his views on the Democratic party?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2021, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 03, 2021, 02:43:36 AM
https://twitter.com/harikunzru/status/1363567793245990914/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/harikunzru/status/1363567793245990914/photo/1)

There's a lot more still to come out on X's assassination.  Here's a recent deathbed confession by NYPD ex cop on his, and his dept's involvement.

That may be the case. I wasn't commenting specifically on that, just outlining the little bit I know about the Nation of Islam, Malcolm X's murder having been (rightly or wrongly) attributed to them, with members convicted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 03, 2021, 04:13:19 PM
J70....saw this on Twitter. Is it true?


New York only offers 9 days of early voting vs 17 under Georgia's law. New York has excuse only absentee voting & its illegal to offer food or water to people standing in line to vote in New York.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2021, 04:34:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 03, 2021, 04:13:19 PM
J70....saw this on Twitter. Is it true?


New York only offers 9 days of early voting vs 17 under Georgia's law. New York has excuse only absentee voting & its illegal to offer food or water to people standing in line to vote in New York.

I've no idea.

But then again there aren't really many issues voting in NY (the voter roll purge a couple of years ago aside) so it's never come up. In all the years I've been in NYC and voted, only once, the 2012 presidential election, have I ever had to wait more than a couple of minutes. And I've always voted on Election Day.

Now if NY started cutting polling places all over the place, especially in poor neighbourhoods, and people were waiting for hours and in need of water and snacks, then you might see those rules challenged.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 03, 2021, 04:55:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 03, 2021, 04:34:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 03, 2021, 04:13:19 PM
J70....saw this on Twitter. Is it true?


New York only offers 9 days of early voting vs 17 under Georgia's law. New York has excuse only absentee voting & its illegal to offer food or water to people standing in line to vote in New York.

I've no idea.

But then again there aren't really many issues voting in NY (the voter roll purge a couple of years ago aside) so it's never come up. In all the years I've been in NYC and voted, only once, the 2012 presidential election, have I ever had to wait more than a couple of minutes. And I've always voted on Election Day.

Now if NY started cutting polling places all over the place, especially in poor neighbourhoods, and people were waiting for hours and in need of water and snacks, then you might see those rules challenged.

LOL-what they looked to add hundreds of polling places and people objected and voted against it, that would be kind of a bummer wouldn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 03, 2021, 04:56:48 PM
Has anyone asked how the worlds greatest democracy can't get their house in order when it comes to casting a vote. How in the name of God do you have to queue for hours on end to vote. How many voters would there be per polling station?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 04, 2021, 03:07:53 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donations.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donations.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage)

Trump campaign had one-time online donations unwittingly transformed into weekly donations. 

It's almost as if you shouldn't trust a conman.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 03, 2021, 03:39:18 AM
I don't understand.  The guy who wrote this is now dead. Who are you referring to when you say you hope he will reassess his views on the Democratic party?

It was in reference to the poster before you and his Mockingbird Media views. He introduced us to the patsy Malcolm X killer.  A number of post previously he gave his reasons for his love-fest with the Democratic Party. The polar opposite is the case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on April 04, 2021, 11:27:51 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 04, 2021, 03:07:53 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donations.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donations.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage)

Trump campaign had one-time online donations unwittingly transformed into weekly donations. 

It's almost as if you shouldn't trust a conman.
Pond scum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 04, 2021, 11:48:15 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 03, 2021, 03:39:18 AM
I don't understand.  The guy who wrote this is now dead. Who are you referring to when you say you hope he will reassess his views on the Democratic party?

It was in reference to the poster before you and his Mockingbird Media views. He introduced us to the patsy Malcolm X killer.  A number of post previously he gave his reasons for his love-fest with the Democratic Party. The polar opposite is the case.
Who shot JR, Seamus?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 05, 2021, 01:48:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 04, 2021, 11:48:15 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 03, 2021, 03:39:18 AM
I don't understand.  The guy who wrote this is now dead. Who are you referring to when you say you hope he will reassess his views on the Democratic party?

It was in reference to the poster before you and his Mockingbird Media views. He introduced us to the patsy Malcolm X killer.  A number of post previously he gave his reasons for his love-fest with the Democratic Party. The polar opposite is the case.
Who shot JR, Seamus?
sue ellen ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2021, 05:24:12 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/166263832_1125010061337366_523304292183169828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=AWZeChxZqToAX_LHAna&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=12c7580ad1034f30ba4f8400cff5e5ce&oe=6091DC46)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on April 05, 2021, 05:54:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 03, 2021, 04:34:36 PM

I've no idea.

But then again there aren't really many issues voting in NY (the voter roll purge a couple of years ago aside) so it's never come up. In all the years I've been in NYC and voted, only once, the 2012 presidential election, have I ever had to wait more than a couple of minutes. And I've always voted on Election Day.

Now if NY started cutting polling places all over the place, especially in poor neighbourhoods, and people were waiting for hours and in need of water and snacks, then you might see those rules challenged.

I see you took down you last post directed at me. You know what you said, this is my response.

Here we go again with the "conspiracy theorist" label from the great propaganda magnet himself. You are like a broken record at this stage. You have fallen heavily for the CIA weaponized "Conspiracy Theory" as outlined in their 1967 Document 1035-960.

https://projectunspeakable.com/conspiracy-theory-invention-of-cia/

The author expertly conveys the intentions of this propaganda machine where you will also find a link to another CIA clandestine act, Operation Mockingbird, which I have associated many times here with regards to the mainstream media.

You normally include the word "paranoid" along with "conspiracy theorist" when you beliefs are challenged. Here is an excerpt from the above website with the proper psychological well-being of those questioning official government fairytales along with other false narratives. Personally I shudder to think back on the days when I was as naive as you.

"And as a recent study published in the prominent journal Frontiers of Psychology suggests, tendering alternative conspiracy theories" to the government-endorsed explanations of September 11, 2001 is a sign of "individuation," or psychological well being and contentment. Such a condition is a clear danger to those who wish to wield uncontested political authority. Indeed, the capacity to freely disseminate and discuss knowledge of government malfeasance is the foremost counterbalance to tyranny. Since this ability cannot be readily confiscated or suppressed, it must be ridiculed, marginalized, even diagnosed as a psychiatric condition.

The recent abandonment of network neutrality may eventually further subdue the nuisance of independent research, thought, and analysis. Until then, the corporate media's attempts to bamboozle and terrify the American public with the well-worn conspiracy theory meme will be a prevalent feature of what passes for news and commentary today".

As for US politics I have stated numerous times in the past the we have one party in the disguise of two, a form of divide and conquer as is the racial phyop which is prevalent today, mainly driven by the Democrats with their pretentious "make the best life for the people"(your quote) and The Mockingbird Media. I also stated I was once a  Democrat.  Ronald Reagan said "I did not leave the Democrat Party, The Democratic Party left me". Not exactly my reason as 99% of the politicians in the District of Corruption are not for the people and never were. 

The Neocons/RINOs are just as corrupt as the Democrats. Trump was just part of the charade along with the Qanon phyop. He did a few reversals of the Obama administration's outlandish acts such as Obama Care and the Paris Accord to appease the Republicans. He also got the US out of Syria to a large extent where the previous administrations intent was on starting World War 111.

Didn't expect to see worse Presidents than George Senior, Junior and Clinton, then Obama came along. Now we have the worst of them all in the making "timid"Joe Biden. I do understand he is just a figure head but he is very willingly going along. A young Biden was not so timid during the Waco Senate Hearings along with that other sc**bag Schumer, they had no intentions of letting the truth get out. Look where they are today, head of the Democratic party, career criminals who have never spoken one word of the truth.

To prove of what a low life Biden is, just take into account his reaction to his first wife and one year old daughter's accidental death in a traffic accident. His wife may or may not have stopped at a stop sign. What we do know is that she drove out onto the path of an oncoming tractor-trailer -truck with right of way. Her child was in her arms. Hunter and Beau were also in the car. The truck driver, Curtis Dunn was totally innocent and had no drink in his system. For the rest of his life he never enjoyed Christmas as it brought back memories of that tragic day, December 18, 1972.  Biden had for years claimed the deaths were caused by a drunk driver. During the first Obama election run, Biden running as his VP, publicly brought up the drunk driver lie twice in an angry tone.. Dunn's daughter was outraged and demanded a public apology which Biden did not agree to do.

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/joe-biden-lied-about-his-first-wife-being-killed-by-a-drunk-driver/

The Waco documentary showing more of Biden's true colors that I intended to post is now censored on YouTube, it was there up to three months ago. I may be able to find it somewhere else.

You tell me I never give evidence, I have given plenty along the way but you care not to read or watch even a five minute video clip as you are totally closed minded and brainwashed by the Mockingbird Media. Now you have the CIA weaponizing propaganda article to read along with Biden lies (you can watch CNN daily to witness more). Bet you will not bother with either except for a quick glance. Shame about the two hour plus censored Waco documentary, it would blow the lid on the lies for those who had not seen it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2021, 06:11:48 AM
Don't tell me. 9/11 "was an inside job?"

* Walks slowly, backwards, towards the door *
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on April 05, 2021, 10:18:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 05, 2021, 01:48:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 04, 2021, 11:48:15 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 03, 2021, 03:39:18 AM
I don't understand.  The guy who wrote this is now dead. Who are you referring to when you say you hope he will reassess his views on the Democratic party?

It was in reference to the poster before you and his Mockingbird Media views. He introduced us to the patsy Malcolm X killer.  A number of post previously he gave his reasons for his love-fest with the Democratic Party. The polar opposite is the case.
Who shot JR, Seamus?
sue ellen ?
Nah, I think she shot John Lennon though

Or was that Dolores O'Riordan
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2021, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: Seamus on April 05, 2021, 05:54:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 03, 2021, 04:34:36 PM

I've no idea.

But then again there aren't really many issues voting in NY (the voter roll purge a couple of years ago aside) so it's never come up. In all the years I've been in NYC and voted, only once, the 2012 presidential election, have I ever had to wait more than a couple of minutes. And I've always voted on Election Day.

Now if NY started cutting polling places all over the place, especially in poor neighbourhoods, and people were waiting for hours and in need of water and snacks, then you might see those rules challenged.

I see you took down you last post directed at me. You know what you said, this is my response.

Here we go again with the "conspiracy theorist" label from the great propaganda magnet himself. You are like a broken record at this stage. You have fallen heavily for the CIA weaponized "Conspiracy Theory" as outlined in their 1967 Document 1035-960.

https://projectunspeakable.com/conspiracy-theory-invention-of-cia/

The author expertly conveys the intentions of this propaganda machine where you will also find a link to another CIA clandestine act, Operation Mockingbird, which I have associated many times here with regards to the mainstream media.

You normally include the word "paranoid" along with "conspiracy theorist" when you beliefs are challenged. Here is an excerpt from the above website with the proper psychological well-being of those questioning official government fairytales along with other false narratives. Personally I shudder to think back on the days when I was as naive as you.

"And as a recent study published in the prominent journal Frontiers of Psychology suggests, tendering alternative conspiracy theories" to the government-endorsed explanations of September 11, 2001 is a sign of "individuation," or psychological well being and contentment. Such a condition is a clear danger to those who wish to wield uncontested political authority. Indeed, the capacity to freely disseminate and discuss knowledge of government malfeasance is the foremost counterbalance to tyranny. Since this ability cannot be readily confiscated or suppressed, it must be ridiculed, marginalized, even diagnosed as a psychiatric condition.

The recent abandonment of network neutrality may eventually further subdue the nuisance of independent research, thought, and analysis. Until then, the corporate media's attempts to bamboozle and terrify the American public with the well-worn conspiracy theory meme will be a prevalent feature of what passes for news and commentary today".

As for US politics I have stated numerous times in the past the we have one party in the disguise of two, a form of divide and conquer as is the racial phyop which is prevalent today, mainly driven by the Democrats with their pretentious "make the best life for the people"(your quote) and The Mockingbird Media. I also stated I was once a  Democrat.  Ronald Reagan said "I did not leave the Democrat Party, The Democratic Party left me". Not exactly my reason as 99% of the politicians in the District of Corruption are not for the people and never were. 

The Neocons/RINOs are just as corrupt as the Democrats. Trump was just part of the charade along with the Qanon phyop. He did a few reversals of the Obama administration's outlandish acts such as Obama Care and the Paris Accord to appease the Republicans. He also got the US out of Syria to a large extent where the previous administrations intent was on starting World War 111.

Didn't expect to see worse Presidents than George Senior, Junior and Clinton, then Obama came along. Now we have the worst of them all in the making "timid"Joe Biden. I do understand he is just a figure head but he is very willingly going along. A young Biden was not so timid during the Waco Senate Hearings along with that other sc**bag Schumer, they had no intentions of letting the truth get out. Look where they are today, head of the Democratic party, career criminals who have never spoken one word of the truth.

To prove of what a low life Biden is, just take into account his reaction to his first wife and one year old daughter's accidental death in a traffic accident. His wife may or may not have stopped at a stop sign. What we do know is that she drove out onto the path of an oncoming tractor-trailer -truck with right of way. Her child was in her arms. Hunter and Beau were also in the car. The truck driver, Curtis Dunn was totally innocent and had no drink in his system. For the rest of his life he never enjoyed Christmas as it brought back memories of that tragic day, December 18, 1972.  Biden had for years claimed the deaths were caused by a drunk driver. During the first Obama election run, Biden running as his VP, publicly brought up the drunk driver lie twice in an angry tone.. Dunn's daughter was outraged and demanded a public apology which Biden did not agree to do.

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/joe-biden-lied-about-his-first-wife-being-killed-by-a-drunk-driver/

The Waco documentary showing more of Biden's true colors that I intended to post is now censored on YouTube, it was there up to three months ago. I may be able to find it somewhere else.

You tell me I never give evidence, I have given plenty along the way but you care not to read or watch even a five minute video clip as you are totally closed minded and brainwashed by the Mockingbird Media. Now you have the CIA weaponizing propaganda article to read along with Biden lies (you can watch CNN daily to witness more). Bet you will not bother with either except for a quick glance. Shame about the two hour plus censored Waco documentary, it would blow the lid on the lies for those who had not seen it.

Yes Seamus, I did remove my post. And I probably won't read your link beyond a quick glance. I've  wasted too much time in the past reading and responding to the half-baked links and opinions you've offered as evidence. FFS now you're going about a video about Waco and Biden that has been censored by YouTube. Cloak and dagger shit and cover-ups and set-ups happen, but every time, concerning every single thing? I just can't be bothered anymore. Life is too short. That's why I said "f**k it" and deleted the post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2021, 09:13:04 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/169455095_10225803987151547_8274304435990872448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ChRQ8xv0_wsAX9-FjQp&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=1b6f757bdd5297c65f9db153b3fa9943&oe=6092E6C4)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 06, 2021, 12:03:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2021, 09:13:04 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/169455095_10225803987151547_8274304435990872448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ChRQ8xv0_wsAX9-FjQp&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=1b6f757bdd5297c65f9db153b3fa9943&oe=6092E6C4)

MAGA world, including the Dear Leader himself, is staying as far away from this as they can too!

I'd forgotten that he had defended Katie Hill when she had to resign her seat after nude photos were published. And now he is accused of showing photos around Congress.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/06/trump-matt-gaetz-lifeline-479126 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/06/trump-matt-gaetz-lifeline-479126)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2021, 01:00:23 AM
Mitch McConnell, one of the biggest recipients of corporate campaign donations, has unironically asked corporations to stay out of politics, as conservatives mobilize a pathetic attempt to cancel Coca Cola and baseball.

Is there any part of America that these conservatives do like? What's it going to be next? Are they going to cancel apple pie because they think it's too liberal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 07, 2021, 01:43:34 AM
Like I said a few weeks ago the media would pick up the attacks on desantis if he was getting too popular and right on cue the cbs hit piece on Sunday night , if they were looking for a scandal just look to California and the governor who received 23 million in donations since 2005 from blue shield and by golly who gets the vaccine rollout contract blue shield.
Media are full on a wing of the Democrat party now not even pretending to be neutral.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 07, 2021, 12:37:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 07, 2021, 01:43:34 AM
Like I said a few weeks ago the media would pick up the attacks on desantis if he was getting too popular and right on cue the cbs hit piece on Sunday night , if they were looking for a scandal just look to California and the governor who received 23 million in donations since 2005 from blue shield and by golly who gets the vaccine rollout contract blue shield.
Media are full on a wing of the Democrat party now not even pretending to be neutral.

Maybe its Trump protecting him. His son is shacked up with Newsome's ex-wife.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 07, 2021, 12:46:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2021, 01:00:23 AM
Mitch McConnell, one of the biggest recipients of corporate campaign donations, has unironically asked corporations to stay out of politics, as conservatives mobilize a pathetic attempt to cancel Coca Cola and baseball.

Is there any part of America that these conservatives do like? What's it going to be next? Are they going to cancel apple pie because they think it's too liberal?

I guess corporations aren't people anymore! ;D

Maybe McConnell will now back legislation to overturn the Citizens United decision? :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
James o keefe permanently banned off twitter after exposing cnn again the censorship continues from so called liberal outlets.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on April 16, 2021, 01:15:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
James o keefe permanently banned off twitter after exposing cnn again the censorship continues from so called liberal outlets.

How dare you report it on this website, less you end the circle jerk between the same old daily posters.

But again it was all fake wasn't it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 16, 2021, 03:29:57 AM
Yeah, it's like, totally unfair, especially considering he's never done anything at all even a little bit dubious before...

Mr. O'Keefe's account, @JamesOKeefeIII, was "permanently suspended for violating the Twitter Rules on platform manipulation and spam," specifically that users cannot mislead others with fake accounts or "artificially amplify or disrupt conversations" through the use of multiple accounts, a Twitter spokesman said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/business/twitter-james-okeefe.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/business/twitter-james-okeefe.html)

Yeah, yeah, it's the NYTimes.  But, sure he's suing anyway, so we'll see what the courts think.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on April 16, 2021, 06:45:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2021, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: Seamus on April 05, 2021, 05:54:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 03, 2021, 04:34:36 PM

I've no idea.

But then again there aren't really many issues voting in NY (the voter roll purge a couple of years ago aside) so it's never come up. In all the years I've been in NYC and voted, only once, the 2012 presidential election, have I ever had to wait more than a couple of minutes. And I've always voted on Election Day.

Now if NY started cutting polling places all over the place, especially in poor neighbourhoods, and people were waiting for hours and in need of water and snacks, then you might see those rules challenged.

I see you took down you last post directed at me. You know what you said, this is my response.

Here we go again with the "conspiracy theorist" label from the great propaganda magnet himself. You are like a broken record at this stage. You have fallen heavily for the CIA weaponized "Conspiracy Theory" as outlined in their 1967 Document 1035-960.

https://projectunspeakable.com/conspiracy-theory-invention-of-cia/

The author expertly conveys the intentions of this propaganda machine where you will also find a link to another CIA clandestine act, Operation Mockingbird, which I have associated many times here with regards to the mainstream media.

You normally include the word "paranoid" along with "conspiracy theorist" when you beliefs are challenged. Here is an excerpt from the above website with the proper psychological well-being of those questioning official government fairytales along with other false narratives. Personally I shudder to think back on the days when I was as naive as you.

"And as a recent study published in the prominent journal Frontiers of Psychology suggests, tendering alternative conspiracy theories" to the government-endorsed explanations of September 11, 2001 is a sign of "individuation," or psychological well being and contentment. Such a condition is a clear danger to those who wish to wield uncontested political authority. Indeed, the capacity to freely disseminate and discuss knowledge of government malfeasance is the foremost counterbalance to tyranny. Since this ability cannot be readily confiscated or suppressed, it must be ridiculed, marginalized, even diagnosed as a psychiatric condition.

The recent abandonment of network neutrality may eventually further subdue the nuisance of independent research, thought, and analysis. Until then, the corporate media's attempts to bamboozle and terrify the American public with the well-worn conspiracy theory meme will be a prevalent feature of what passes for news and commentary today".

As for US politics I have stated numerous times in the past the we have one party in the disguise of two, a form of divide and conquer as is the racial phyop which is prevalent today, mainly driven by the Democrats with their pretentious "make the best life for the people"(your quote) and The Mockingbird Media. I also stated I was once a  Democrat.  Ronald Reagan said "I did not leave the Democrat Party, The Democratic Party left me". Not exactly my reason as 99% of the politicians in the District of Corruption are not for the people and never were. 

The Neocons/RINOs are just as corrupt as the Democrats. Trump was just part of the charade along with the Qanon phyop. He did a few reversals of the Obama administration's outlandish acts such as Obama Care and the Paris Accord to appease the Republicans. He also got the US out of Syria to a large extent where the previous administrations intent was on starting World War 111.

Didn't expect to see worse Presidents than George Senior, Junior and Clinton, then Obama came along. Now we have the worst of them all in the making "timid"Joe Biden. I do understand he is just a figure head but he is very willingly going along. A young Biden was not so timid during the Waco Senate Hearings along with that other sc**bag Schumer, they had no intentions of letting the truth get out. Look where they are today, head of the Democratic party, career criminals who have never spoken one word of the truth.

To prove of what a low life Biden is, just take into account his reaction to his first wife and one year old daughter's accidental death in a traffic accident. His wife may or may not have stopped at a stop sign. What we do know is that she drove out onto the path of an oncoming tractor-trailer -truck with right of way. Her child was in her arms. Hunter and Beau were also in the car. The truck driver, Curtis Dunn was totally innocent and had no drink in his system. For the rest of his life he never enjoyed Christmas as it brought back memories of that tragic day, December 18, 1972.  Biden had for years claimed the deaths were caused by a drunk driver. During the first Obama election run, Biden running as his VP, publicly brought up the drunk driver lie twice in an angry tone.. Dunn's daughter was outraged and demanded a public apology which Biden did not agree to do.

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/joe-biden-lied-about-his-first-wife-being-killed-by-a-drunk-driver/

The Waco documentary showing more of Biden's true colors that I intended to post is now censored on YouTube, it was there up to three months ago. I may be able to find it somewhere else.

You tell me I never give evidence, I have given plenty along the way but you care not to read or watch even a five minute video clip as you are totally closed minded and brainwashed by the Mockingbird Media. Now you have the CIA weaponizing propaganda article to read along with Biden lies (you can watch CNN daily to witness more). Bet you will not bother with either except for a quick glance. Shame about the two hour plus censored Waco documentary, it would blow the lid on the lies for those who had not seen it.

Yes Seamus, I did remove my post. And I probably won't read your link beyond a quick glance. I've  wasted too much time in the past reading and responding to the half-baked links and opinions you've offered as evidence. FFS now you're going about a video about Waco and Biden that has been censored by YouTube. Cloak and dagger shit and cover-ups and set-ups happen, but every time, concerning every single thing? I just can't be bothered anymore. Life is too short. That's why I said "f**k it" and deleted the post.

You should delete all your posts, they are all nonsense. You have gone way too far down the propaganda rabbit hole to the point of no return.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2021, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
James o keefe permanently banned off twitter after exposing cnn again the censorship continues from so called liberal outlets.

f**k him.

When you lie and misrepresent and engage in fraud over and over again, you deserve everything you get. I'm sure he can present his "findings" on Parler or Infowars. That way the rest of us don't have to waste a single further second on his false exposes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2021, 11:43:46 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 16, 2021, 03:29:57 AM
Yeah, it's like, totally unfair, especially considering he's never done anything at all even a little bit dubious before...

Mr. O'Keefe's account, @JamesOKeefeIII, was "permanently suspended for violating the Twitter Rules on platform manipulation and spam," specifically that users cannot mislead others with fake accounts or "artificially amplify or disrupt conversations" through the use of multiple accounts, a Twitter spokesman said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/business/twitter-james-okeefe.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/business/twitter-james-okeefe.html)

Yeah, yeah, it's the NYTimes.  But, sure he's suing anyway, so we'll see what the courts think.

Don't worry about O'Keefe. He'll raise a tonne of cash from the reactionary idiots who follow him and don't give two fucks about whether he is a fraud and a liar, only that he's trying to "own the libs".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on April 16, 2021, 11:51:49 AM
Another outbreak of mass shooting.
The 126th (or was it 216th) this year....
Just another citizen exercising his right wing freedom I presume  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on April 16, 2021, 12:16:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2021, 11:51:49 AM
Another outbreak of mass shooting.
The 126th (or was it 216th) this year....
Just another citizen exercising his right wing freedom I presume  ::)

Another banal, vapid, insipid, uninspired, tedious, sterile, anaemic, unimaginative post from a poster who tells us he has numerous posters blocked, yet still quotes them. Wonders where Benny Cake has gone, after your numerous antagonizing posts directed towards him. Ah jaysus Rossfan, between yourself and sufferus .... Step away from the keyboard for a month or two, real life stuff can be interesting, even in a pandemic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2021, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2021, 11:51:49 AM
Another outbreak of mass shooting.
The 126th (or was it 216th) this year....
Just another citizen exercising his right wing freedom I presume  ::)

Another bitter or disturbed murderous fuckwit with easy access to lethal weapons in his local sporting goods chain or corner gun shop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on April 16, 2021, 12:34:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2021, 11:51:49 AM
Another outbreak of mass shooting.
The 126th (or was it 216th) this year....
Just another citizen exercising his right wing freedom I presume  ::)

Another bitter or disturbed murderous fuckwit with easy access to lethal weapons in his local sporting goods chain or corner gun shop.

That is more accurate than the banal assumption yer man was right wing, I would say he just wasn't right in the head, coupled with the pretty easy access to destructive weapons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2021, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2021, 12:34:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2021, 11:51:49 AM
Another outbreak of mass shooting.
The 126th (or was it 216th) this year....
Just another citizen exercising his right wing freedom I presume  ::)

Another bitter or disturbed murderous fuckwit with easy access to lethal weapons in his local sporting goods chain or corner gun shop.

That is more accurate than the banal assumption yer man was right wing, I would say he just wasn't right in the head, coupled with the pretty easy access to destructive weapons.

I didn't interpret it as him saying the guy (presumably) was a right winger.

Just that he was availing of the super easy access to guns enabled by the right wing political movement in the states.

But Rossfan can explain it for himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
James o keefe permanently banned off twitter after exposing cnn again the censorship continues from so called liberal outlets.

f**k him.

When you lie and misrepresent and engage in fraud over and over again, you deserve everything you get. I'm sure he can present his "findings" on Parler or Infowars. That way the rest of us don't have to waste a single further second on his false exposes.
cnn being a fake news organization is hardly a new story but nice to see the proof up front , did you see the video ? do you think it's doctored? Social media silencing the story about the Marxist blm founder who likes to buy property in exclusively white neighborhood for 3 m plus also .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on April 16, 2021, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2021, 12:34:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2021, 11:51:49 AM
Another outbreak of mass shooting.
The 126th (or was it 216th) this year....
Just another citizen exercising his right wing freedom I presume  ::)

Another bitter or disturbed murderous fuckwit with easy access to lethal weapons in his local sporting goods chain or corner gun shop.

That is more accurate than the banal assumption yer man was right wing, I would say he just wasn't right in the head, coupled with the pretty easy access to destructive weapons.

I didn't interpret it as him saying the guy (presumably) was a right winger.

Just that he was availing of the super easy access to guns enabled by the right wing political movement in the states.

But Rossfan can explain it for himself.

America is sick. The government is basically allowing a genocide in it's own country. Other countries should really be putting sanctions on them for allowing this to happen. If it was happening in any other country America would step in against these terrorists.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on April 16, 2021, 02:04:04 PM
J70 you explained it grand.
Ridiculous seems to have am obsession with me but it's a very one sided affair as I have no interest in her. :-\
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2021, 02:07:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
James o keefe permanently banned off twitter after exposing cnn again the censorship continues from so called liberal outlets.

f**k him.

When you lie and misrepresent and engage in fraud over and over again, you deserve everything you get. I'm sure he can present his "findings" on Parler or Infowars. That way the rest of us don't have to waste a single further second on his false exposes.
cnn being a fake news organization is hardly a new story but nice to see the proof up front , did you see the video ? do you think it's doctored? Social media silencing the story about the Marxist blm founder who likes to buy property in exclusively white neighborhood for 3 m plus also .

No, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen the latest police killing videos either.

Been taking a break from the news the last week or two.

And if O'Keefe hasn't in fact doctored and edited the video to fit his "narrative", it will be pretty much the first time. Why should I put any credence in what he has to offer this time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 04:44:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 02:07:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
James o keefe permanently banned off twitter after exposing cnn again the censorship continues from so called liberal outlets.

f**k him.

When you lie and misrepresent and engage in fraud over and over again, you deserve everything you get. I'm sure he can present his "findings" on Parler or Infowars. That way the rest of us don't have to waste a single further second on his false exposes.
cnn being a fake news organization is hardly a new story but nice to see the proof up front , did you see the video ? do you think it's doctored? Social media silencing the story about the Marxist blm founder who likes to buy property in exclusively white neighborhood for 3 m plus also .

No, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen the latest police killing videos either.

Been taking a break from the news the last week or two.

And if O'Keefe hasn't in fact doctored and edited the video to fit his "narrative", it will be pretty much the first time. Why should I put any credence in what he has to offer this time?
avoiding the news is not a bad idea at the moment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 16, 2021, 04:49:24 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 16, 2021, 06:45:07 AMYou should delete all your posts, they are all nonsense. You have gone way too far down the propaganda rabbit hole to the point of no return.

The irony of someone who has a picture from InfoWars as his profile picture posting this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2021, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 04:44:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 02:07:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2021, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
James o keefe permanently banned off twitter after exposing cnn again the censorship continues from so called liberal outlets.

f**k him.

When you lie and misrepresent and engage in fraud over and over again, you deserve everything you get. I'm sure he can present his "findings" on Parler or Infowars. That way the rest of us don't have to waste a single further second on his false exposes.
cnn being a fake news organization is hardly a new story but nice to see the proof up front , did you see the video ? do you think it's doctored? Social media silencing the story about the Marxist blm founder who likes to buy property in exclusively white neighborhood for 3 m plus also .

No, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen the latest police killing videos either.

Been taking a break from the news the last week or two.

And if O'Keefe hasn't in fact doctored and edited the video to fit his "narrative", it will be pretty much the first time. Why should I put any credence in what he has to offer this time?
avoiding the news is not a bad idea at the moment

I just need a break from the political stuff after the past six months or so. The insanity of the right will still be there when I get back to it as the Trump takeover continues unabated. Biden and Pelosi will continue to keep the crazier leftists in their box.

BBC has some interesting, nerdy science podcasts in its In Our Time series which are much more fulfilling. Haven't checked out any of the history or other disciplines, but may try them later. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 17, 2021, 03:29:38 PM
Wasn't there an 80s song Japanese boy ?  Big favorite of joes .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on April 19, 2021, 03:13:16 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 16, 2021, 04:49:24 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 16, 2021, 06:45:07 AMYou should delete all your posts, they are all nonsense. You have gone way too far down the propaganda rabbit hole to the point of no return.

The irony of someone who has a picture from InfoWars as his profile picture posting this.

You are delusional, I never had a photo in my profile, never mind one of Infowars. Don't follow that channel either.

I found the Waco Documentary. There is no statute of limitations for murder. Those three letter agencies and politicians who gave the orders should pay for their crimes. Janet Reno, only a matter of weeks on the job, on the advice of Webster Hubbel and Hillary Clinton sent in the tanks that gassed the women and children. A word of caution. There are graphic photos of twisted bodies as a result of the cyanide gas.

Massive lies exposed in the documentary including Biden's angry spiff. There was another Waco Documentary, long pulled, which feature several of his lying outbursts. He had no interest in exposing the truth regarding the deaths of those innocent women and children nor what really happened in Waco. This is made even worse by the fact he lost his wife and two year old daughter. He lied about that incident also, what a piece of shit he is. Schumer also lied through his teeth, no wonder we have no justice today and never will until those people and their ilk are removed.

A must see documentary, it is worth far more than a glimpse.  Maybe then the love fest for these criminal politicians will end on this board at least.

https://trimurl.co/WacoMassacre (https://trimurl.co/WacoMassacre)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 20, 2021, 09:54:26 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 19, 2021, 03:13:16 AM
You are delusional, I never had a photo in my profile, never mind one of Infowars. Don't follow that channel either.

Here is the URL of your profile picture

http://social.infowars.com/uploads_user/4000/3171/0_2222.jpg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 20, 2021, 09:54:57 PM
The Chauvin verdict is in, it will be announced soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 20, 2021, 10:08:42 PM
Guilty on all charges.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2021, 10:21:09 PM
The "he choked to death on the car's exhaust fumes" defense didn't work out so well in the end.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2021, 01:51:32 AM
Chauvin should get 10-20 years in jail, but he has great ammunition to launch an appeal (no pun intended)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Seamus on April 21, 2021, 02:27:10 PM
Quote from: dec on April 20, 2021, 09:54:26 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 19, 2021, 03:13:16 AM
You are delusional, I never had a photo in my profile, never mind one of Infowars. Don't follow that channel either.

Here is the URL of your profile picture

http://social.infowars.com/uploads_user/4000/3171/0_2222.jpg

That avatar is not functional in years. I have given my thoughts on Infowars a long time ago. I watched it occasionally for up to six months 15 years or so ago. What we get is 90% truth and 10% disinformation. There is nobody out there that can get it 100% correct but I felt that Alex Jones was intentionally adding it in. This was proven by some of his former journalists. It is also years since I have visited his site. Saw him in a brief interview a few months ago and was surprised at how much he aged.

Meanwhile you are glued to the idiot box and seemingly proud of it. Did you watch the Waco Documentary? Very doubtful if you even clicked on it. Do you believe the official story given by the three letter agencies, the politicians and the idiot box?  If you did happen to watch the documentary let me know where you disagree (if you do} with the overwhelming evidence proving everything we were told about Waco is 100% false and we will discuss it.

Waco Documentary
https://trimurl.co/WacoMassacre (https://trimurl.co/WacoMassacre)

After watching the Documentary then witness this 4 minute clip of proven Biden lies.
https://trimurl.co/BidenLies (https://trimurl.co/BidenLies)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 01:51:32 AM
Chauvin should get 10-20 years in jail, but he has great ammunition to launch an appeal (no pun intended)

Why do you think he has a good case for an appeal?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2021, 02:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 01:51:32 AM
Chauvin should get 10-20 years in jail, but he has great ammunition to launch an appeal (no pun intended)

Why do you think he has a good case for an appeal?

Not just me.....the judge in the case actually said it

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/judge-derek-chauvin-maxine-waters-mistrial-appeal/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2021, 03:06:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 02:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 01:51:32 AM
Chauvin should get 10-20 years in jail, but he has great ammunition to launch an appeal (no pun intended)

Why do you think he has a good case for an appeal?

Not just me.....the judge in the case actually said it

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/judge-derek-chauvin-maxine-waters-mistrial-appeal/index.html

Ah, I see.

Maybe.

He still wouldn't have a hope of overturning the conviction.

He'd need the lawyer from that old Black Adder episode:

I remember Massingbird's most famous case: the Case of the Bloody Knife. A man was found next to a murdered body. He had the knife in his hand. 13 witnesses had seen him stab the victim. And when the police arrived, he said "I'm glad I killed the bastard." Massingbird not only got him off; he got him knighted in the New Year's Honours List. And the relatives of the victim had to pay to wash the blood out of his jacket!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2021, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 03:06:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 02:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 01:51:32 AM
Chauvin should get 10-20 years in jail, but he has great ammunition to launch an appeal (no pun intended)

Why do you think he has a good case for an appeal?

Not just me.....the judge in the case actually said it

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/judge-derek-chauvin-maxine-waters-mistrial-appeal/index.html

Ah, I see.

Maybe.

He still wouldn't have a hope of overturning the conviction.

He'd need the lawyer from that old Black Adder episode:

I remember Massingbird's most famous case: the Case of the Bloody Knife. A man was found next to a murdered body. He had the knife in his hand. 13 witnesses had seen him stab the victim. And when the police arrived, he said "I'm glad I killed the bastard." Massingbird not only got him off; he got him knighted in the New Year's Honours List. And the relatives of the victim had to pay to wash the blood out of his jacket!

I think a mistrial is what he would be hoping for and a new trial (which would have the same outcome)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2021, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 01:51:32 AM
Chauvin should get 10-20 years in jail, but he has great ammunition to launch an appeal (no pun intended)

Why do you think he has a good case for an appeal?

Floyd (if I remember correctly) had x3 times the normal limit (that should kill someone) of fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system.

That's the stuff killed Prince, rumoured to be the same stuff the Russians fired into the Moscow theater....it closes the respiratory canals, so much so you think your going to sleep, then that's you....

That alone is grounds for appeal on the murder charge I would have thought.

Add in the pay off the family was awarded before the verdict, you have grounds there for presumption of guilt / swaying the jury - you would think there is no way they could have avoided that news.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 21, 2021, 04:08:55 PM
Irony is dead

(https://i.postimg.cc/qMLdnkxM/Screen-Shot-2021-04-21-at-8-07-05-AM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2021, 04:48:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 21, 2021, 04:08:55 PM
Irony is dead

(https://i.postimg.cc/qMLdnkxM/Screen-Shot-2021-04-21-at-8-07-05-AM.png)

;D ;D ;D

Although you do have to hand it to McEnany in one way. She is a first-class actress, able to spew the bullshit and non-sequiturs and fake indignation and outrage while not believing a single word of what she's saying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 21, 2021, 10:59:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 02:45:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 01:51:32 AM
Chauvin should get 10-20 years in jail, but he has great ammunition to launch an appeal (no pun intended)

Why do you think he has a good case for an appeal?

Not just me.....the judge in the case actually said it

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/judge-derek-chauvin-maxine-waters-mistrial-appeal/index.html
biden weighed  in on it too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 22, 2021, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2021, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2021, 01:51:32 AM
Chauvin should get 10-20 years in jail, but he has great ammunition to launch an appeal (no pun intended)

Why do you think he has a good case for an appeal?

Floyd (if I remember correctly) had x3 times the normal limit (that should kill someone) of fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system.

That's the stuff killed Prince, rumoured to be the same stuff the Russians fired into the Moscow theater....it closes the respiratory canals, so much so you think your going to sleep, then that's you....

That alone is grounds for appeal on the murder charge I would have thought.

Add in the pay off the family was awarded before the verdict, you have grounds there for presumption of guilt / swaying the jury - you would think there is no way they could have avoided that news.

What are you talking about?

All of the drug stuff was discussed and refuted in the trial. Multiple expert witnesses testified that the actions of Chauvin caused Floyd's death and that the level of drugs in his system was irrelevant. One of the witnesses said that a healthy person, even without Floyd's heart issues, would have died if subjected to Chauvin's knee on the neck for that length of time. The defense brought out a few expert witnesses of their own, who were not exactly convincing, to say the least.

You don't get to try again just because the jury rejected the defense's theory of the case the first time out.

On the pay-off, that was discussed during the pre-trial proceedings, and led to the dismissal of a number of jurors who were perceived to have been biased by the award. The defense asked for the trial to be moved, but that was rejected. Where were they going to go? The case dominated national, even worldwide headlines all of last summer.

Unless you're going to say f**k it, and let Chauvin skate, not sure what else could be done. Unless they can do trial by judge instead of jury.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
The conservatives are now attacking Biden over a nonexistent meat ban.

The hell is the matter with these people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 26, 2021, 06:12:48 PM
brain worms
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Lol Biden's policy, he has one meeting every other day don't you know it's the 4 years at Bernie's show
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2021, 06:43:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
The conservatives are now attacking Biden over a nonexistent meat ban.

The hell is the matter with these people?

They took it from a Daily Mail headline on an article that speculates about a couple of ways the US might meet Biden's climate change goals. Of course none of the "proposals" come from anything the administration has released.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9501565/How-Bidens-climate-plan-affect-everyday-Americans.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9501565/How-Bidens-climate-plan-affect-everyday-Americans.html)

And of course nothing is mentioned about the long term economic costs of staying on the fossil fuel path.

I see Bjorn Lomborg, the "Skeptical Environmentalist" from 20-odd years ago, is mentioned in the article. I guess he's back on the scene!




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2021, 06:44:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Lol Biden's policy, he has one meeting every other day don't you know it's the 4 years at Bernie's show

Whatever helps you cope, pet! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2021, 06:44:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Lol Biden's policy, he has one meeting every other day don't you know it's the 4 years at Bernie's show

Whatever helps you cope, pet! ;D
when will joe or his new or not so new border tsar actually go to the border ?
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 08:19:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2021, 06:43:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
The conservatives are now attacking Biden over a nonexistent meat ban.

The hell is the matter with these people?

They took it from a Daily Mail headline on an article that speculates about a couple of ways the US might meet Biden's climate change goals. Of course none of the "proposals" come from anything the administration has released.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9501565/How-Bidens-climate-plan-affect-everyday-Americans.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9501565/How-Bidens-climate-plan-affect-everyday-Americans.html)

And of course nothing is mentioned about the long term economic costs of staying on the fossil fuel path.

I see Bjorn Lomborg, the "Skeptical Environmentalist" from 20-odd years ago, is mentioned in the article. I guess he's back on the scene!
was that the video meeting where he was wearing a mask ?
Nobody could hear a word he was trying to say no wonder the wires got crossed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 26, 2021, 08:39:43 PM
whoops - sorry guys - we made a mistake  ::)

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1386757567750230019
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2021, 09:32:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2021, 06:44:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Lol Biden's policy, he has one meeting every other day don't you know it's the 4 years at Bernie's show

Whatever helps you cope, pet! ;D
when will joe or his new or not so new border tsar actually go to the border ?
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

They're ignoring it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2021, 09:38:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 08:19:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2021, 06:43:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
The conservatives are now attacking Biden over a nonexistent meat ban.

The hell is the matter with these people?

They took it from a Daily Mail headline on an article that speculates about a couple of ways the US might meet Biden's climate change goals. Of course none of the "proposals" come from anything the administration has released.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9501565/How-Bidens-climate-plan-affect-everyday-Americans.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9501565/How-Bidens-climate-plan-affect-everyday-Americans.html)

And of course nothing is mentioned about the long term economic costs of staying on the fossil fuel path.

I see Bjorn Lomborg, the "Skeptical Environmentalist" from 20-odd years ago, is mentioned in the article. I guess he's back on the scene!
was that the video meeting where he was wearing a mask ?
Nobody could hear a word he was trying to say no wonder the wires got crossed.

You tell me.

I'm enjoying not having a bigoted, ignorant, loudmouth  man-baby dominating the public discourse. And I don't sit around waiting with baited breath for the next "fix" for my "Biden is a braindead zombie" obsession.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2021, 11:03:16 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 26, 2021, 08:39:43 PM
whoops - sorry guys - we made a mistake  ::)

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1386757567750230019

Chuck Schumer:

Excited to be watching the Oscars with an ice cold plant-based beer.

Thanks Joe Biden.

Apparently some of the idiots took the bait. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 11:27:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2021, 11:03:16 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 26, 2021, 08:39:43 PM
whoops - sorry guys - we made a mistake  ::)

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1386757567750230019

Chuck Schumer:

Excited to be watching the Oscars with an ice cold plant-based beer.

Thanks Joe Biden.

Apparently some of the idiots took the bait. ;D
oh he was the one who watched the oscars
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 12:33:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2021, 11:03:16 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 26, 2021, 08:39:43 PM
whoops - sorry guys - we made a mistake  ::)

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1386757567750230019

Chuck Schumer:

Excited to be watching the Oscars with an ice cold plant-based beer.

Thanks Joe Biden.

Apparently some of the idiots took the bait. ;D

This being the biggest

(https://i.postimg.cc/FFk1QySk/Screen-Shot-2021-04-26-at-4-33-35-PM.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .

The allegations are a bit more serious than your usual vague comment hints at.

Kerry could be in big trouble if its true. Let's hope its not.

https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/ (https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/
I don't believe anything the Washington post prints , neither should you .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2021, 03:23:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/
I don't believe anything the Washington post prints , neither should you .

Begs the question, given what you post, who you DO believe! ;D

Do you have anything to refute the Post article?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:36:40 PM
He'll go off into another vague rant about something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2021, 03:44:11 PM
Fox and Friends, sort of, walked back the book claim (I guess THEY find the WaPo story possibly credible  ;))

https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-kamala-harris-childrens-book/ (https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-kamala-harris-childrens-book/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .

The allegations are a bit more serious than your usual vague comment hints at.

Kerry could be in big trouble if its true. Let's hope its not.

https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/ (https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/)

Could be worse. He could salute a North Korean general.

(https://static.politico.com/14/bb/cbacddd74273a8972b596d8c306a/180614-trump-salute-screengrab-1160.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .

The allegations are a bit more serious than your usual vague comment hints at.

Kerry could be in big trouble if its true. Let's hope its not.

https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/ (https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/)

Could be worse. He could salute a North Korean general.

(https://static.politico.com/14/bb/cbacddd74273a8972b596d8c306a/180614-trump-salute-screengrab-1160.png)
like Biden says the US is back on the world stage and ready to be taken advantage of again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2021, 07:27:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .

The allegations are a bit more serious than your usual vague comment hints at.

Kerry could be in big trouble if its true. Let's hope its not.

https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/ (https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/)

Could be worse. He could salute a North Korean general.

(https://static.politico.com/14/bb/cbacddd74273a8972b596d8c306a/180614-trump-salute-screengrab-1160.png)
like Biden says the US is back on the world stage and ready to be taken advantage of again

f**king hell Gmac.

You, as an Irish man, thinks the US has been taken advantage of over the years??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 07:27:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .

The allegations are a bit more serious than your usual vague comment hints at.

Kerry could be in big trouble if its true. Let's hope its not.

https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/ (https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/)

Could be worse. He could salute a North Korean general.

(https://static.politico.com/14/bb/cbacddd74273a8972b596d8c306a/180614-trump-salute-screengrab-1160.png)
like Biden says the US is back on the world stage and ready to be taken advantage of again

f**king hell Gmac.

You, as an Irish man, thinks the US has been taken advantage of over the years??
of course not but the likes of Iran and China do and the last administration tried to make sure other countries paid their way and held up their end on emissions etc which is why they were hated internationally , then you have a clown like Kerry saying we don't see eye to eye on economic or cyber policy  but maybe we can on emissions , in other words we will turn a blind eye on them stealing tech info and putting Muslims in concentration camps and slave labor but please try and pretend to cut emissions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2021, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 07:27:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .

The allegations are a bit more serious than your usual vague comment hints at.

Kerry could be in big trouble if its true. Let's hope its not.

https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/ (https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/)

Could be worse. He could salute a North Korean general.

(https://static.politico.com/14/bb/cbacddd74273a8972b596d8c306a/180614-trump-salute-screengrab-1160.png)
like Biden says the US is back on the world stage and ready to be taken advantage of again

f**king hell Gmac.

You, as an Irish man, thinks the US has been taken advantage of over the years??
of course not but the likes of Iran and China do and the last administration tried to make sure other countries paid their way and held up their end on emissions etc which is why they were hated internationally , then you have a clown like Kerry saying we don't see eye to eye on economic or cyber policy  but maybe we can on emissions , in other words we will turn a blind eye on them stealing tech info and putting Muslims in concentration camps and slave labor but please try and pretend to cut emissions.

Any chance of any sources for those claims?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/

The NY Post writer, Laura Italiano, whose name was on the original "story" has resigned, saying she was forced to write it and that she didn't push back hard enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on April 28, 2021, 12:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 07:27:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .

The allegations are a bit more serious than your usual vague comment hints at.

Kerry could be in big trouble if its true. Let's hope its not.

https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/ (https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/)

Could be worse. He could salute a North Korean general.

(https://static.politico.com/14/bb/cbacddd74273a8972b596d8c306a/180614-trump-salute-screengrab-1160.png)
like Biden says the US is back on the world stage and ready to be taken advantage of again

f**king hell Gmac.

You, as an Irish man, thinks the US has been taken advantage of over the years??
of course not but the likes of Iran and China do and the last administration tried to make sure other countries paid their way and held up their end on emissions etc which is why they were hated internationally , then you have a clown like Kerry saying we don't see eye to eye on economic or cyber policy  but maybe we can on emissions , in other words we will turn a blind eye on them stealing tech info and putting Muslims in concentration camps and slave labor but please try and pretend to cut emissions.

Do you mean Gitmo?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/

The NY Post writer, Laura Italiano, whose name was on the original "story" has resigned, saying she was forced to write it and that she didn't push back hard enough.
good to know fake news is everywhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 28, 2021, 03:28:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/

The NY Post writer, Laura Italiano, whose name was on the original "story" has resigned, saying she was forced to write it and that she didn't push back hard enough.
good to know fake news is everywhere.

I know that our friends on the right will not let a minor detail like the fact that the story is complete bullshit stop them from continuing to claim it is true.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2021, 03:40:35 PM
Quote from: dec on April 28, 2021, 03:28:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/

The NY Post writer, Laura Italiano, whose name was on the original "story" has resigned, saying she was forced to write it and that she didn't push back hard enough.
good to know fake news is everywhere.

I know that our friends on the right will not let a minor detail like the fact that the story is complete bullshit stop them from continuing to claim it is true.

Wonder how the Arizona "recount" is going?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2021, 04:08:22 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22338417/james-carville-democratic-party-biden-100-days

James Carville on wokeness
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: dec on April 28, 2021, 03:28:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/

The NY Post writer, Laura Italiano, whose name was on the original "story" has resigned, saying she was forced to write it and that she didn't push back hard enough.
good to know fake news is everywhere.

I know that our friends on the right will not let a minor detail like the fact that the story is complete bullshit stop them from continuing to claim it is true.
are you worried about lies about bounties on us soldiers in Afghanistan and  lies that officer shipnick died of injuries suffered on jan 6 protest  ? Little more serious than a book
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2021, 05:42:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2021, 04:08:22 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22338417/james-carville-democratic-party-biden-100-days

James Carville on wokeness

And a lot of other stuff! ;)

He is correct on the PR stuff though.

It matters.

And he is correct that the Dems should be hanging the Capitol insurrection around Trump and the GOP's necks every chance they get.

If it Biden had incited that and the GOP was in control of Congress, there would be 15 different committees investigating it with chairmen and women on Fox News every night of the week screaming about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2021, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: dec on April 28, 2021, 03:28:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/

The NY Post writer, Laura Italiano, whose name was on the original "story" has resigned, saying she was forced to write it and that she didn't push back hard enough.
good to know fake news is everywhere.

I know that our friends on the right will not let a minor detail like the fact that the story is complete bullshit stop them from continuing to claim it is true.
are you worried about lies about bounties on us soldiers in Afghanistan and  lies that officer shipnick died of injuries suffered on jan 6 protest  ? Little more serious than a book

Where's the equivalence?

The reports that came out about Shipnick were based on sources within the Capitol police. And its not as if insurrectionists were NOT filmed launching fire extinguishers and other weapons at the cops. If they didn't in fact kill or seriously injure anyone, it wasn't for the lack of trying.

And the bounty story came out of intelligence sources. It was absolutely newsworthy. Boris Johnson was even briefed on it. Trump's and his administration's denials made the news too.

What was the source for this book story, other than some photo of a single book?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 28, 2021, 07:31:27 PM
Oooops

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0FMDjsX0AAnpBL?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2021, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: dec on April 28, 2021, 03:28:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/

The NY Post writer, Laura Italiano, whose name was on the original "story" has resigned, saying she was forced to write it and that she didn't push back hard enough.
good to know fake news is everywhere.

I know that our friends on the right will not let a minor detail like the fact that the story is complete bullshit stop them from continuing to claim it is true.
are you worried about lies about bounties on us soldiers in Afghanistan and  lies that officer shipnick died of injuries suffered on jan 6 protest  ? Little more serious than a book

Where's the equivalence?

The reports that came out about Shipnick were based on sources within the Capitol police. And its not as if insurrectionists were NOT filmed launching fire extinguishers and other weapons at the cops. If they didn't in fact kill or seriously injure anyone, it wasn't for the lack of trying.

And the bounty story came out of intelligence sources. It was absolutely newsworthy. Boris Johnson was even briefed on it. Trump's and his administration's denials made the news too.

What was the source for this book story, other than some photo of a single book?
none , the book exists the other 2 are outright lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 11:59:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 28, 2021, 07:31:27 PM
Oooops

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0FMDjsX0AAnpBL?format=jpg&name=900x900)
anything going on tonight I wonder , another smoke screen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 29, 2021, 03:11:51 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/28/us/biden-speech-congress#tim-scott-biden-republican-rebuttal (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/28/us/biden-speech-congress#tim-scott-biden-republican-rebuttal)

What was that black kid in South Park called again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2021, 03:42:13 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 29, 2021, 03:11:51 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/28/us/biden-speech-congress#tim-scott-biden-republican-rebuttal (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/28/us/biden-speech-congress#tim-scott-biden-republican-rebuttal)

What was that black kid in South Park called again?
very racist comment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2021, 03:49:42 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/180005013_1385165241862144_4938954073130032891_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=bk-bWVTe0k0AX99WsGy&_nc_oc=AQl2F-EzBTtqS-FBCONPUK8kOBSeTdgJtZuolmr1fd99jE5gLDfAgDiSwa_7AQkSJ20&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=6a7bde330be0678460c9d50b92564684&oe=60AFB810)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2021, 03:53:13 AM
The Trump administration's criminal dealings will keep the Justice Department, the FBI, and god knows who all busy for years.

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/s640x640/178604800_1140680619770310_5712233388344553341_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3-CXAkevmr8AX_24LLW&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=dfb068aed5242e1aefa1f03fb8ac2a83&oe=60AF7C41)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2021, 05:59:12 AM
A selection of things Rethuglicans refused to clap for tonight:


The GOP is the party of cruelty, violence, poverty, and treason. They are anti-American. Damn them all to hell.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2021, 06:09:51 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/179330156_1140114319826940_2061601619930386643_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zJpBmupbp2cAX-vYpGI&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=aee607f61cddc47d0b1f6099960878b8&oe=60B16AD6)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2021, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2021, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: dec on April 28, 2021, 03:28:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 28, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
No photo ops now just cold reality no political points to score so they ignore and give them Kamalas book and have cnn msnbc and the rest cover for them or blame Trump .

Stop regurgitating every piece of shite you see on Fox News

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/27/no-officials-are-not-handing-out-harriss-picture-book-migrant-kids/

The NY Post writer, Laura Italiano, whose name was on the original "story" has resigned, saying she was forced to write it and that she didn't push back hard enough.
good to know fake news is everywhere.

I know that our friends on the right will not let a minor detail like the fact that the story is complete bullshit stop them from continuing to claim it is true.
are you worried about lies about bounties on us soldiers in Afghanistan and  lies that officer shipnick died of injuries suffered on jan 6 protest  ? Little more serious than a book

Where's the equivalence?

The reports that came out about Shipnick were based on sources within the Capitol police. And its not as if insurrectionists were NOT filmed launching fire extinguishers and other weapons at the cops. If they didn't in fact kill or seriously injure anyone, it wasn't for the lack of trying.

And the bounty story came out of intelligence sources. It was absolutely newsworthy. Boris Johnson was even briefed on it. Trump's and his administration's denials made the news too.

What was the source for this book story, other than some photo of a single book?
none , the book exists the other 2 are outright lies.

Seriously? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 03, 2021, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .

The allegations are a bit more serious than your usual vague comment hints at.

Kerry could be in big trouble if its true. Let's hope its not.

https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/ (https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/)
the climate czar made tens of millions trading oil and gas stock, the perfect man for the 1984 esk joe Biden administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2021, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2021, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 02:03:23 AM
John Kerry back kissing the asses of the terrorists in Iran again I see .

The allegations are a bit more serious than your usual vague comment hints at.

Kerry could be in big trouble if its true. Let's hope its not.

https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/ (https://thebulwark.com/four-questions-about-the-iran-kerry-allegations/)
the climate czar made tens of millions trading oil and gas stock, the perfect man for the 1984 esk joe Biden administration

Any chance of a source? Details?

"1984 esk"??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 07, 2021, 12:40:38 AM
OMG! Now the RWNJs are looking for bamboo in the ballots. This is not a joke!

Because apparently thousands of ballots were smuggled in from China, so if the paper the ballots were printed on contain bamboo, then "gotcha, liburls!"

The depths of conservative insanity just seem to keep on getting deeper.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2021/05/06/arizona-election-audit-now-searching-bamboo-our-ballots/4974025001/?fbclid=IwAR1EcZbF6dl88bGB7SRB3cred8PIpUf9b8LlDopba_A2TdccR2vF3Kc89Hk
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 07, 2021, 04:30:07 AM
Is Liz Cheney going to be the next victim of cancel culture? Seems like her close association with reality (Biden won the election fair and square) is too much for the Rethuglican mainstream in the post-truth era.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 07, 2021, 12:28:39 PM
Is that bamboo shit really true?

It sounds like someone trying to wind people up with a ludicrous bullshit story, but it seems to be being widely reported.

The Cheney thing is just mind-boggling though.

I cannot stand her aggressive neocon politics, but she is probably among the most hardline conservative politicians in Congress, and the GOP Trump personality cult is pushing her aside because she won't publicly embrace Trump's election fraud charade and is standing her ground, unlike that spineless, gutless, unprincipled worm Kevin McCarthy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 09, 2021, 01:33:32 AM
Oh the bamboo shit is absolutely true.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/07/opinions/arizona-dangerous-audit-destabilize-democracy-douglas/index.html

There are plenty of other outlets reporting it, including Forbes which is not exactly known for its leftist views, but I'm posting a CNN link just because of the effect it's sure to have on any RWNJs who might be reading.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 11, 2021, 07:08:11 PM
Joes presidency so far
Inflation through roof
Gas shortage on east coast
Turmoil on southern border
Turmoil starting in Middle East
War mongering with Russia
A president and vp wearing masks everywhere when they are fully vaccinated therefore turning people off getter vaccine ( joe needs covid to keep going to push through crazy policy)
Allowing teachers union to dictate policy to cdc
but remember it's all trumps fault
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 11, 2021, 10:56:20 PM
When the cancel culture thinks it isn't cancel culture:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/185305722_1149018655603173_1872765541995687063_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=olN-S9HhaH0AX9z5gWy&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=fbc472acfe9ad3647bfbd95bbaebf32a&oe=60C1B2F4)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on May 11, 2021, 11:43:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 11, 2021, 07:08:11 PM
Joes presidency so far
Inflation through roof
Gas shortage on east coast
Turmoil on southern border
Turmoil starting in Middle East
War mongering with Russia
A president and vp wearing masks everywhere when they are fully vaccinated therefore turning people off getter vaccine ( joe needs covid to keep going to push through crazy policy)
Allowing teachers union to dictate policy to cdc
but remember it's all trumps fault

The only valid criticism there is the border the rest is a load of nonsense. The border is a shit show why can't you just focus on that?

There is no gas shortage other than panic buying and why shouldn't the CDC consult with teachers about reopening schools and hasn't Biden just invited Putin to a summit? Any wonder Republicans lost so bad when they have to make stuff up!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2021, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 11, 2021, 11:43:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 11, 2021, 07:08:11 PM
Joes presidency so far
Inflation through roof
Gas shortage on east coast
Turmoil on southern border
Turmoil starting in Middle East
War mongering with Russia
A president and vp wearing masks everywhere when they are fully vaccinated therefore turning people off getter vaccine ( joe needs covid to keep going to push through crazy policy)
Allowing teachers union to dictate policy to cdc
but remember it's all trumps fault

The only valid criticism there is the border the rest is a load of nonsense. The border is a shit show why can't you just focus on that?

There is no gas shortage other than panic buying and why shouldn't the CDC consult with teachers about reopening schools and hasn't Biden just invited Putin to a summit? Any wonder Republicans lost so bad when they have to make stuff up!

Indeed.

And never mind that inflation is down to global supply chains and pent-up demand, something that hasn't come about in a vacuum.

That mask/covid comment...??

Things could be worse though, despite the border problems which they still have to get to grips with. The GOP is on the final lap of purging their party of any reality-based direction and leadership. For a party which gloated "f**k your feelings" for the last few years, emotion and feelings seems to be the only thing they deal in; there are no facts or verifiable evidence involved when it comes to prostrating their entire movement at the feet of the Great Orange Baby.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2021, 12:13:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 11, 2021, 10:56:20 PM
When the cancel culture thinks it isn't cancel culture:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/185305722_1149018655603173_1872765541995687063_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=olN-S9HhaH0AX9z5gWy&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=fbc472acfe9ad3647bfbd95bbaebf32a&oe=60C1B2F4)

The free thought party, albeit within the very narrow parameters of unquestioning and complete loyalty to Trump's narcissistic, vainglorious psyche.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2021, 12:13:52 AM
12 million people passed through Ellis Island between 1892 and 1954. People showed up in huge numbers with no visas, no jobs, and got to stay permanently. The borders were completely open up to 1921. Why do we never hear about this in terms of a "crisis at the border?" Were we not "full" then too?

Most of the people claiming that "if you don't have a border you don't have a country" (*cough* *cough* Schenghen area *cough* open-border-on-the-island-of-Ireland *cough*) are descended from people that were allowed to flood into the country willy nilly before anyone invented the term "illegal immigration." All this fake outrage about immigrants is pure pull-the-ladder-up-behind-us-ism with a bit of racism thrown in. It's got nothing to do with security or the welfare of the American people and everything to do with pure out-and-out bigotry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 02:29:46 AM
Apprehensions at southern border up 944% in April 2021 compared to 2020 add to list
With such weakness in wh things will only get worse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2021, 02:55:55 AM
Stats corrected for the effects of the start of the COVID pandemic shutting everything down last April, no doubt?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 03:06:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 02:55:55 AM
Stats corrected for the effects of the start of the COVID pandemic shutting everything down last April, no doubt?
there still is a pandemic going on right ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2021, 03:11:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 03:06:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 02:55:55 AM
Stats corrected for the effects of the start of the COVID pandemic shutting everything down last April, no doubt?
there still is a pandemic going on right ?

I don't know about where you live, but restrictions are way, way more loosened where I am than they were this time last year.

What are the stats compared to April/May 2019?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2021, 07:39:25 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/185020519_4554907377858897_8121595651900204154_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=hknjBb-bqmoAX-eYkYB&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=19847de75a694ad3c925b094b7e81d4d&oe=60C1CB89)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 02:37:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 03:11:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 03:06:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 02:55:55 AM
Stats corrected for the effects of the start of the COVID pandemic shutting everything down last April, no doubt?
there still is a pandemic going on right ?

I don't know about where you live, but restrictions are way, way more loosened where I am than they were this time last year.

What are the stats compared to April/May 2019?
there is turmoil at the southern border the Middle East is about to go off again pipelines are being shut down by Russian hackers , inflation is kicking in, unemployment is too high and joe is missing in action he can't even read a teleprompter without mangling it how can he speak with other world leaders about anything he has to be hidden away , that has to becoming clear even to you at this stage .But systemic racism blah blah blah he has that line off well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 02:37:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 03:11:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 03:06:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 02:55:55 AM
Stats corrected for the effects of the start of the COVID pandemic shutting everything down last April, no doubt?
there still is a pandemic going on right ?

I don't know about where you live, but restrictions are way, way more loosened where I am than they were this time last year.

What are the stats compared to April/May 2019?
there is turmoil at the southern border the Middle East is about to go off again pipelines are being shut down by Russian hackers , inflation is kicking in, unemployment is too high and joe is missing in action he can't even read a teleprompter without mangling it how can he speak with other world leaders about anything he has to be hidden away , that has to becoming clear even to you at this stage .But systemic racism blah blah blah he has that line off well.

So you don't want to answer the question?

The pipelines being hacked is Biden's fault? Did he fire Trump's crack team of cybersecurity officials and technicians or something? Did he pull the funding these massive oil companies who own Colonial Pipeline must apparently need to combat hackers?

Inflation? What part of globalization, supply chains, factories and raw materials being impacted by an international pandemic and shutdown don't you get? Throw in suppressed spending as millions were stuck at home or out of work.

Unemployment – it will come down as states continue to open up and companies start bringing people back to the office. However, I actually agree that the extra payments should probably be discontinued to encourage those in the likes of service industries to get back to work.

Which begs the question how can he be both missing in action AND the cause of the inflation and high employment you're laying at his feet?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 12, 2021, 05:36:55 PM
What's happening down there right now is an absolute disgrace-5 kids under 7 found abandoned in the desert by a farmer

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-farmer-migrant-girls-border-b1845721.html%3famp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 12, 2021, 05:51:32 PM
Dominion Voting machines hacked the pipeline.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2021, 06:03:04 PM
Liz Cheney is now officially cancelled for having the audacity to say the truth about the election. The GOP is now a mentally unhinged cult of lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2021, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 12, 2021, 05:36:55 PM
What's happening down there right now is an absolute disgrace-5 kids under 7 found abandoned in the desert by a farmer

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-farmer-migrant-girls-border-b1845721.html%3famp

One of them 11 months old. The others 2, 3, 5 and 7.

How bad must things be in Honduras and Guatemala that parents would send such young children with the type of sc**bag smugglers who would just ditch them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 07:02:17 PM
Quote from: dec on May 12, 2021, 05:51:32 PM
Dominion Voting machines hacked the pipeline.
the fbi or cia should have no problem finding out who did it once they are done making videos about diversity and lgbqt acceptance in their agencies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2021, 07:11:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2021, 06:03:04 PM
Liz Cheney is now officially cancelled for having the audacity to say the truth about the election. The GOP is now a mentally unhinged cult of lies.

Just wait until a Kevin McCarthy-led House refuses to accept the results of a presidential election and seats "alternate" delegates from red states. That's where the GOP is headed.

I can't stand Liz Cheney's politics, but at least her worldview is based in reality, however much I might disagree with her interpretations and views, and she has the courage of her convictions and limits to the craziness she'll publicly stand behind.

Most of the rest of the party are either (a) spineless opportunists out to reap the benefits of pandering to the lunatic base who control the primaries and thus, in most cases, general election successes even if they personally don't believe a word of what they're spewing (i.e. Ted Cruz, Kevin McCarthy, Josh Hawley, Elise Stefanik, even Mitch McConnell when it comes down to it) or (b) genuinely representative of their batshit crazy constituents (Marjorie Taylor Greene, yer one with the guns from Colorado, Matt Gaetz etc.).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2021, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 07:02:17 PM
Quote from: dec on May 12, 2021, 05:51:32 PM
Dominion Voting machines hacked the pipeline.
the fbi or cia should have no problem finding out who did it once they are done making videos about diversity and lgbqt acceptance in their agencies.

I worked for the federal government for a few years.

The diversity training was something that took about half an hour out of my year. It was also very appropriate and on point. And similar to what I sit through in my current private sector job.

One wonders why you would be so upset by it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2021, 07:33:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 07:11:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2021, 06:03:04 PM
Liz Cheney is now officially cancelled for having the audacity to say the truth about the election. The GOP is now a mentally unhinged cult of lies.

Just wait until a Kevin McCarthy-led House refuses to accept the results of a presidential election and seats "alternate" delegates from red states. That's where the GOP is headed.

I can't stand Liz Cheney's politics, but at least her worldview is based in reality, however much I might disagree with her interpretations and views, and she has the courage of her convictions and limits to the craziness she'll publicly stand behind.

Most of the rest of the party are either (a) spineless opportunists out to reap the benefits of pandering to the lunatic base who control the primaries and thus, in most cases, general election successes even if they personally don't believe a word of what they're spewing (i.e. Ted Cruz, Kevin McCarthy, Josh Hawley, Elise Stefanik, even Mitch McConnell when it comes down to it) or (b) genuinely representative of their batshit crazy constituents (Marjorie Taylor Greene, yer one with the guns from Colorado, Matt Gaetz etc.).

The conservatives have lost their goddamn minds. They're sinking deeper into fascism and prepared to bring the US to its knees through a hostile takeover that overrules the will of the people, by force if necessary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 07:46:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 07:02:17 PM
Quote from: dec on May 12, 2021, 05:51:32 PM
Dominion Voting machines hacked the pipeline.
the fbi or cia should have no problem finding out who did it once they are done making videos about diversity and lgbqt acceptance in their agencies.

I worked for the federal government for a few years.

The diversity training was something that took about half an hour out of my year. It was also very appropriate and on point. And similar to what I sit through in my current private sector job.

One wonders why you would be so upset by it?
I'm not upset about it at all just wondering about priorities. You worked for the federal government in the past not today so kind of irrelevant, big changes in last couple of years left wing kooks have infiltrated everywhere.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 13, 2021, 12:02:57 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 07:46:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 07:02:17 PM
Quote from: dec on May 12, 2021, 05:51:32 PM
Dominion Voting machines hacked the pipeline.
the fbi or cia should have no problem finding out who did it once they are done making videos about diversity and lgbqt acceptance in their agencies.

I worked for the federal government for a few years.

The diversity training was something that took about half an hour out of my year. It was also very appropriate and on point. And similar to what I sit through in my current private sector job.

One wonders why you would be so upset by it?
I'm not upset about it at all just wondering about priorities. You worked for the federal government in the past not today so kind of irrelevant, big changes in last couple of years left wing kooks have infiltrated everywhere.

I left three years ago, more than a year into Trump's administration. My wife still works for the feds. I have a number of friends working for various agencies. Never once has anyone spoken about left wing kooks or over the top diversity training.

But sure go ahead and tell us about the information you are apparently privy to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 13, 2021, 02:59:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 13, 2021, 12:02:57 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 07:46:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2021, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2021, 07:02:17 PM
Quote from: dec on May 12, 2021, 05:51:32 PM
Dominion Voting machines hacked the pipeline.
the fbi or cia should have no problem finding out who did it once they are done making videos about diversity and lgbqt acceptance in their agencies.

I worked for the federal government for a few years.

The diversity training was something that took about half an hour out of my year. It was also very appropriate and on point. And similar to what I sit through in my current private sector job.

One wonders why you would be so upset by it?
I'm not upset about it at all just wondering about priorities. You worked for the federal government in the past not today so kind of irrelevant, big changes in last couple of years left wing kooks have infiltrated everywhere.

I left three years ago, more than a year into Trump's administration. My wife still works for the feds. I have a number of friends working for various agencies. Never once has anyone spoken about left wing kooks or over the top diversity training.

But sure go ahead and tell us about the information you are apparently privy to.
I better watch out or the irs will be after me .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 28, 2021, 06:21:38 PM
Well darn. Republicans should have welcomed and approved the independent, bipartisan commission so it could prove the violent, destructive mob was Antifa agitators wearing Trump apparel, carrying Trump flags, and shouting Trump rhetoric. How odd for them to block it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 28, 2021, 06:35:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 28, 2021, 06:21:38 PM
Well darn. Republicans should have welcomed and approved the independent, bipartisan commission so it could prove the violent, destructive mob was Antifa agitators wearing Trump apparel, carrying Trump flags, and shouting Trump rhetoric. How odd for them to block it.

Another missed opportunity to take their party back from the Dear Leader.

Apparently these Trump-worshiping, Stop-the-Steal, QAnon, Proud Boy yahoos are systematically taking over local and state party branches all over the country, locking the normal, sane members and officers out.

And with the gutless, spineless cuck that is Kevin McCarthy likely going to be the next Speaker, this country is headed for some fairly dark times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2021, 08:57:17 PM
Well that's the long weekend out of the way. I quite enjoyed the long weekend, even though we all had a cold here. How was everyone else's long weekend? We spent a bit of the long weekend at the beach yesterday, a good way to round off the long weekend. I do enjoy a good long weekend.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 01, 2021, 09:05:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2021, 08:57:17 PM
Well that's the long weekend out of the way. I quite enjoyed the long weekend, even though we all had a cold here. How was everyone else's long weekend? We spent a bit of the long weekend at the beach yesterday, a good way to round off the long weekend. I do enjoy a good long weekend.

Disgusting how dare you enjoy yourself when you're supposed to be remembering the Military's sacrifice... damn liberals have no respect for the flag!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 01, 2021, 10:17:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 01, 2021, 09:05:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2021, 08:57:17 PM
Well that's the long weekend out of the way. I quite enjoyed the long weekend, even though we all had a cold here. How was everyone else's long weekend? We spent a bit of the long weekend at the beach yesterday, a good way to round off the long weekend. I do enjoy a good long weekend.

Disgusting how dare you enjoy yourself when you're supposed to be remembering the Military's sacrifice... damn liberals have no respect for the flag!!
when is your next one July 12th ? Enjoy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 01, 2021, 10:55:14 PM
transgender girls banned from playing school sports in florida

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ron-desantis-florida-gop-governor/2021/06/01/id/1023478/ (https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ron-desantis-florida-gop-governor/2021/06/01/id/1023478/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 01, 2021, 11:03:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 01, 2021, 10:17:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 01, 2021, 09:05:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 01, 2021, 08:57:17 PM
Well that's the long weekend out of the way. I quite enjoyed the long weekend, even though we all had a cold here. How was everyone else's long weekend? We spent a bit of the long weekend at the beach yesterday, a good way to round off the long weekend. I do enjoy a good long weekend.

Disgusting how dare you enjoy yourself when you're supposed to be remembering the Military's sacrifice... damn liberals have no respect for the flag!!
when is your next one July 12th ? Enjoy.

Monday... don't worry I will :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2021, 11:22:06 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 01, 2021, 10:55:14 PM
transgender girls banned from playing school sports in florida

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ron-desantis-florida-gop-governor/2021/06/01/id/1023478/ (https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ron-desantis-florida-gop-governor/2021/06/01/id/1023478/)

Kind of a head scratcher as to why the Republicans are wasting time on this

Female athletes need to lead the way....if it is even an issue for them


That being said, this makes interesting reading

https://boysvswomen.com/#/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 02, 2021, 01:33:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2021, 11:22:06 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 01, 2021, 10:55:14 PM
transgender girls banned from playing school sports in florida

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ron-desantis-florida-gop-governor/2021/06/01/id/1023478/ (https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ron-desantis-florida-gop-governor/2021/06/01/id/1023478/)

Kind of a head scratcher as to why the Republicans are wasting time on this

Female athletes need to lead the way....if it is even an issue for them


That being said, this makes interesting reading

https://boysvswomen.com/#/

Its an easy wedge issue at a time when they don't want to talk about Trump and January 6th.

The Democratic coalition have pretty much breathed a sigh of relief, switched off politics and gone their separate ways, and turnout could be an issue for them next year.

The GOP may be an unhinged mess, but they know how to do the culture war stuff which will get their relatively homogenous base out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 02, 2021, 08:54:05 PM
Is joe about to give fauci the hook ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2021, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 02, 2021, 08:54:05 PM
Is joe about to give fauci the hook ?

Doubt it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2021, 04:13:10 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/02/video-boat-fire-harassing-prideflags/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/02/video-boat-fire-harassing-prideflags/)

Nice to see some fuckwit bigots get an instant dose of karma. 8)

Screaming abuse at a few gay guys on a lake, then their boat explodes and they have to be rescued by the same gay guys. And of course they don't even have the courtesy to say thank you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2021, 04:30:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2021, 04:13:10 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/02/video-boat-fire-harassing-prideflags/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/02/video-boat-fire-harassing-prideflags/)

Nice to see some fuckwit bigots get an instant dose of karma. 8)

Screaming abuse at a few gay guys on a lake, then their boat explodes and they have to be rescued by the same gay guys. And of course they don't even have the courtesy to say thank you.
wrong thread no ? What has this to do with politics ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 03, 2021, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2021, 04:30:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 03, 2021, 04:13:10 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/02/video-boat-fire-harassing-prideflags/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/02/video-boat-fire-harassing-prideflags/)

Nice to see some fuckwit bigots get an instant dose of karma. 8)

Screaming abuse at a few gay guys on a lake, then their boat explodes and they have to be rescued by the same gay guys. And of course they don't even have the courtesy to say thank you.
wrong thread no ? What has this to do with politics ?

I wasn't sure what thread to post to, to be honest.

But then I figured they're typical of much of the US right wing, so this was as good a thread as any.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 08, 2021, 07:05:57 PM
Biden's budget refers not to mothers but to birthing people in reference to maternal (birthing people)health programs, last time I checked only females can have a baby hence mother , did I miss something or just more liberalism mental disorders now in highest parts of government.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 08, 2021, 07:47:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 08, 2021, 07:05:57 PM
Biden's budget refers not to mothers but to birthing people in reference to maternal (birthing people)health programs, last time I checked only females can have a baby hence mother , did I miss something or just more liberalism mental disorders now in highest parts of government.

A little silly perhaps, but the paragraph in question goes on over and over about "maternal" issues, so its also basically much ado about nothing.

I guess it will keep Fox News and the rest going for the week though.

If they can squeeze it in amidst all their "critical race theory" nonsense trying to rile up the white bigots.

But it will all end well.

Your Dear Leader is apparently anticipating being back in the White House by August.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 08, 2021, 09:21:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2021, 07:47:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 08, 2021, 07:05:57 PM
Biden's budget refers not to mothers but to birthing people in reference to maternal (birthing people)health programs, last time I checked only females can have a baby hence mother , did I miss something or just more liberalism mental disorders now in highest parts of government.

A little silly perhaps, but the paragraph in question goes on over and over about "maternal" issues, so its also basically much ado about nothing.

I guess it will keep Fox News and the rest going for the week though.

If they can squeeze it in amidst all their "critical race theory" nonsense trying to rile up the white bigots.

But it will all end well.

Your Dear Leader is apparently anticipating being back in the White House by August.
why is it in there then ? Everything is much ado about nothing to you will you be calling your mother birthing person next time you talk to her ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 08, 2021, 09:44:57 PM
Maybe Biden did it to give the Fox hounds something to get mad about. They only ever seem to be happy when outraged by some bogus piece of minutiae. He should wear a tan suit some day, just to really piss the delicate little conservative snowflakes off.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 09, 2021, 02:49:13 AM
I see Hunter was dropping the N word left right and center

Outraged
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2021, 10:40:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 08, 2021, 09:21:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2021, 07:47:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 08, 2021, 07:05:57 PM
Biden's budget refers not to mothers but to birthing people in reference to maternal (birthing people)health programs, last time I checked only females can have a baby hence mother , did I miss something or just more liberalism mental disorders now in highest parts of government.

A little silly perhaps, but the paragraph in question goes on over and over about "maternal" issues, so its also basically much ado about nothing.

I guess it will keep Fox News and the rest going for the week though.

If they can squeeze it in amidst all their "critical race theory" nonsense trying to rile up the white bigots.

But it will all end well.

Your Dear Leader is apparently anticipating being back in the White House by August.
why is it in there then ? Everything is much ado about nothing to you will you be calling your mother birthing person next time you talk to her ?

They're not banning the word "mother".

And yes, this kind of thing, silly or not, is not something that costs me a second of thought.

I guess it's the motive: inclusion. Whereas so much of what drives the GOP these days is about exclusion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 05:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2021, 02:49:13 AM
I see Hunter was dropping the N word left right and center

Outraged
can imagine the conversation between joe and hunter
These n word are too dumb to get an ID or driver's license to vote
These n word don't vote for me they ain't black
These n word would set up a business but they're too stupid to find a lawyer or accountant
These n word better stay out of our schools we don't want a social jungle out there .
All stuff old progressive joe has said .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2021, 05:54:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 05:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2021, 02:49:13 AM
I see Hunter was dropping the N word left right and center

Outraged
can imagine the conversation between joe and hunter
These n word are too dumb to get an ID or driver's license to vote
These n word don't vote for me they ain't black
These n word would set up a business but they're too stupid to find a lawyer or accountant
These n word better stay out of our schools we don't want a social jungle out there .
All stuff old progressive joe has said .

Biden's said all that, has he?

And yet Jim Clyburn and the black people of South Carolina basically single-handedly rescued his campaign and allowed the Dems to present a moderate to the country to oust Trump.

I guess politicking, policies and advocacy speak louder than occasional gaffes, especially with opponents like the Republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2021, 05:54:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 05:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2021, 02:49:13 AM
I see Hunter was dropping the N word left right and center

Outraged
can imagine the conversation between joe and hunter
These n word are too dumb to get an ID or driver's license to vote
These n word don't vote for me they ain't black
These n word would set up a business but they're too stupid to find a lawyer or accountant
These n word better stay out of our schools we don't want a social jungle out there .
All stuff old progressive joe has said .

Biden's said all that, has he?

And yet Jim Clyburn and the black people of South Carolina basically single-handedly rescued his campaign and allowed the Dems to present a moderate to the country to oust Trump.

I guess politicking, policies and advocacy speak louder than occasional gaffes, especially with opponents like the Republicans.
yes he has and he is far from a moderate anymore.
Bernie was screwed again because he couldn't win the election.
Black people live pro dominantly in Democrat run cities for decades now and how's that working out .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2021, 06:22:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2021, 05:54:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 05:30:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2021, 02:49:13 AM
I see Hunter was dropping the N word left right and center

Outraged
can imagine the conversation between joe and hunter
These n word are too dumb to get an ID or driver's license to vote
These n word don't vote for me they ain't black
These n word would set up a business but they're too stupid to find a lawyer or accountant
These n word better stay out of our schools we don't want a social jungle out there .
All stuff old progressive joe has said .

Biden's said all that, has he?

And yet Jim Clyburn and the black people of South Carolina basically single-handedly rescued his campaign and allowed the Dems to present a moderate to the country to oust Trump.

I guess politicking, policies and advocacy speak louder than occasional gaffes, especially with opponents like the Republicans.
yes he has and he is far from a moderate anymore.
Bernie was screwed again because he couldn't win the election.
Black people live pro dominantly in Democrat run cities for decades now and how's that working out .

1. Biden's a moderate under any normal political barometer. Just because the GOP doesn't give a f**k about things like roads, trains and decaying lead pipes that are in desperate need of attention and can't countenance the idea of rich people paying higher taxes doesn't change that.

2. How was Bernie screwed? His name was on MY primary ballot. Just because he's too leftist and unelectable as president in my opinion (and the opinions of many other Democrats) doesn't mean he was screwed.

3.  On the Democratic cities, its working out fine for many blacks. And many others still struggle with the legacy of racism and the ubiquitous problems that afflict the poor all over the planet. But what's your implication? Are black people stupid and voting for a party that makes their lives worse? If that's the case, why has the GOP not been able to attract them? Many black people USED to vote Republican, after all. What has the GOP been offering black people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 07:30:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2021, 02:49:13 AM
I see Hunter was dropping the N word left right and center

Outraged
f$ggots  and d$kes too you couldn't make it up , but I'm sure he has a pride flag up somewhere so it's all good, the Democrats really have a lot of people fooled.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 08:43:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 01:31:15 PM
Tear gassing and grenading priests so you can stand in front of their church with a bible because you're embarrassed that people noted that Hitler also hid in a bunker, just like you did.

But hey, "not fascism".

https://twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/1267644542762864641

1. Spoke w/Bishop Mariann Budde of the Washington Diocese.

On Trump's remarks: "Everything he has said is antithetical to the teachings of our traditions and what we stand for as a church."

ALSO: One of those driven out w/tear gas for the photo op was a *priest of the diocese.*

2. She read me a message sent to her by that priest, who was offering hospitality to protesters: "I was literally coughing bc of tear gas while helping ppl ... and the police drove us off ... w/riot gear and horses so that man could stand in front of our church with a Bible."

https://twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/1267654371032039430

ANOTHER harrowing account from ANOTHER priest working outside St. John's who says they were run off by tear gas, etc before Trump's photo op.

Ends with a defiant decree: "I am now a force to be reckoned with."


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZec69TXQAA-g3J?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZec69XWoAESRVt?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZec7T0XQAAjtFl?format=jpg&name=large)
this turned out to be another lie , add to the endless list of lies the media tells
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 11:39:41 PM
A quick Google would show that it is very much true

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1399029477682855938

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT
·
May 30
This shouldn't get overlooked. There were a zillion fauxtrage articles and tweets from Trump allies, claiming tear gas wasn't used and attacking journalists who said it was.
Quote Tweet
Nicholas Wu
@nicholaswu12
· May 29
"An attorney for DC Police said in court, for the first time, that the department did indeed use tear gas on protesters around Lafayette Square Park last June...."
via ⁦@wusa9⁩  http://wusa9.com/article/news/investigations/mpd-admits-it-tear-gassed-protesters-june-2020/65-b91a5d65-b683-4e22-b30a-7a740e9cf61d
Show this thread




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 11:39:41 PM
A quick Google would show that it is very much true

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1399029477682855938

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT
·
May 30
This shouldn't get overlooked. There were a zillion fauxtrage articles and tweets from Trump allies, claiming tear gas wasn't used and attacking journalists who said it was.
Quote Tweet
Nicholas Wu
@nicholaswu12
· May 29
"An attorney for DC Police said in court, for the first time, that the department did indeed use tear gas on protesters around Lafayette Square Park last June...."
via ⁦@wusa9⁩  http://wusa9.com/article/news/investigations/mpd-admits-it-tear-gassed-protesters-june-2020/65-b91a5d65-b683-4e22-b30a-7a740e9cf61d
Show this thread
was it for Trump or a fence installation? Read the articles you posted they are lies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 11:58:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 11:39:41 PM
A quick Google would show that it is very much true

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1399029477682855938

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT
·
May 30
This shouldn't get overlooked. There were a zillion fauxtrage articles and tweets from Trump allies, claiming tear gas wasn't used and attacking journalists who said it was.
Quote Tweet
Nicholas Wu
@nicholaswu12
· May 29
"An attorney for DC Police said in court, for the first time, that the department did indeed use tear gas on protesters around Lafayette Square Park last June...."
via ⁦@wusa9⁩  http://wusa9.com/article/news/investigations/mpd-admits-it-tear-gassed-protesters-june-2020/65-b91a5d65-b683-4e22-b30a-7a740e9cf61d
Show this thread
was it for Trump or a fence installation? Read the articles you posted they are lies
What I posted specifically states they are the truth and that you are the one telling lies

It couldn't be clearer

Move on, you lost again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2021, 12:01:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 11:58:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 11:39:41 PM
A quick Google would show that it is very much true

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1399029477682855938

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT
·
May 30
This shouldn't get overlooked. There were a zillion fauxtrage articles and tweets from Trump allies, claiming tear gas wasn't used and attacking journalists who said it was.
Quote Tweet
Nicholas Wu
@nicholaswu12
· May 29
"An attorney for DC Police said in court, for the first time, that the department did indeed use tear gas on protesters around Lafayette Square Park last June...."
via ⁦@wusa9⁩  http://wusa9.com/article/news/investigations/mpd-admits-it-tear-gassed-protesters-june-2020/65-b91a5d65-b683-4e22-b30a-7a740e9cf61d
Show this thread
was it for Trump or a fence installation? Read the articles you posted they are lies
What I posted specifically states they are the truth and that you are the one telling lies

It couldn't be clearer

Move on, you lost again
read the Facebook article you quoted , it's full of lies from a liar quoted by another liar .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 12:11:17 AM
You're seething at being caught out in a lie, all it took was five seconds on Twitter

That seethe is surprising for someone who is so open about living in a la la land of far right make believe

Dust yourself off and go again tomorrow with the shameless lies

Good night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2021, 12:12:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 12:11:17 AM
You're seething at being caught out in a lie, all it took was five seconds on Twitter

That seethe is surprising for someone who is so open about living in a la la land of far right make believe

Dust yourself off and go again tomorrow with the shameless lies

Good night
yes you are
Good night
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2021, 12:16:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 07:30:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2021, 02:49:13 AM
I see Hunter was dropping the N word left right and center

Outraged
f$ggots  and d$kes too you couldn't make it up , but I'm sure he has a pride flag up somewhere so it's all good, the Democrats really have a lot of people fooled.

Hunter Biden = Democrats?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2021, 04:41:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2021, 12:16:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 07:30:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2021, 02:49:13 AM
I see Hunter was dropping the N word left right and center

Outraged
f$ggots  and d$kes too you couldn't make it up , but I'm sure he has a pride flag up somewhere so it's all good, the Democrats really have a lot of people fooled.

Hunter Biden = Democrats?
no but just shows how fake all this woke bs is with dems ,how would media be treating this if it was one of Trumps sons ?
Kamala showing what a total disaster she is as the president of Guatemala giving her a lecture letting her know that the Biden border policy  is encouraging child and human trafficking as well as huge amount of drug trafficking. Wow who would have thought.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 05:06:06 PM
Trump installed several family members in positions of power at the heart of his highly nepotistic regime

Uday and Ivanka and Kushner and Qusay are serious political operatives in their own right, at least two of these are reasonably speculated to have their eyes on the presidency

Hunter Biden is not a political operative, he's Biden son who has a drug problem - so nobody should or does give a f**k about what he's up to, bar loony Republican propaganda media



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2021, 05:27:15 PM
Hunter and his dad have spent  a lot of time setting up shady insider business deals in China, Russia, Ukraine and kasikstan where this type of language is more acceptable so we should give him a break maybe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2021, 06:12:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2021, 04:41:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2021, 12:16:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 09, 2021, 07:30:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2021, 02:49:13 AM
I see Hunter was dropping the N word left right and center

Outraged
f$ggots  and d$kes too you couldn't make it up , but I'm sure he has a pride flag up somewhere so it's all good, the Democrats really have a lot of people fooled.

Hunter Biden = Democrats?
no but just shows how fake all this woke bs is with dems ,how would media be treating this if it was one of Trumps sons ?
Kamala showing what a total disaster she is as the president of Guatemala giving her a lecture letting her know that the Biden border policy  is encouraging child and human trafficking as well as huge amount of drug trafficking. Wow who would have thought.

1. Bullshit. I don't two fucks what Hunter Biden says in some personal conversation. Democrats consistently vote for policies favouring LGBTQ people. Republicans are the ones who demogogue, demonize and try to obstruct granting them equal rights.

2. Kamala is getting a hard time at the moment to be sure. And the US is currently seeing a surge in asylum seekers and illegal immigration due to the recession of COVID and the retreat from repressive and dehumanizing policies of the Trump era. It will take time to get to grips with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2021, 06:14:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2021, 05:27:15 PM
Hunter and his dad have spent  a lot of time setting up shady insider business deals in China, Russia, Ukraine and kasikstan where this type of language is more acceptable so we should give him a break maybe.

Homophobia and corruption is a problem for you now Gmac, is it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on June 11, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
In any other Country ut would be a 1st April story

https://m.independent.ie/videos/texas-representative-asks-forest-service-to-alter-moons-orbit-to-tackle-climate-change-40526783.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 11, 2021, 03:24:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
In any other Country ut would be a 1st April story

https://m.independent.ie/videos/texas-representative-asks-forest-service-to-alter-moons-orbit-to-tackle-climate-change-40526783.html

You have to remember who and what you're talking about when it comes to the GOP.

But Gohmert is one of the more extreme when it comes to ignorance, bigotry and a pure lack of intelligence. He's as dumb as a rock, as his Dear Leader would say.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2021, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
In any other Country ut would be a 1st April story

https://m.independent.ie/videos/texas-representative-asks-forest-service-to-alter-moons-orbit-to-tackle-climate-change-40526783.html
It's painful to watch, isn't it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 16, 2021, 02:19:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2021, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
In any other Country ut would be a 1st April story

https://m.independent.ie/videos/texas-representative-asks-forest-service-to-alter-moons-orbit-to-tackle-climate-change-40526783.html
It's painful to watch, isn't it?
painful to watch joe and Kamala the last couple of weeks they stayed in hiding for as long as they could but Kamala got exposed in guetemala and joes performance at g7 wandering around interrupting people and generally acting like a doting grandad was tough to watch and the man should not be put in that position. Is Jill Biden the president or Susan rice ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on June 16, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 16, 2021, 02:19:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2021, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
In any other Country ut would be a 1st April story

https://m.independent.ie/videos/texas-representative-asks-forest-service-to-alter-moons-orbit-to-tackle-climate-change-40526783.html
It's painful to watch, isn't it?
painful to watch joe and Kamala the last couple of weeks they stayed in hiding for as long as they could but Kamala got exposed in guetemala and joes performance at g7 wandering around interrupting people and generally acting like a doting grandad was tough to watch and the man should not be put in that position. Is Jill Biden the president or Susan rice ?

sorry, what?  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 12:12:00 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on June 16, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 16, 2021, 02:19:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2021, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
In any other Country ut would be a 1st April story

https://m.independent.ie/videos/texas-representative-asks-forest-service-to-alter-moons-orbit-to-tackle-climate-change-40526783.html
It's painful to watch, isn't it?
painful to watch joe and Kamala the last couple of weeks they stayed in hiding for as long as they could but Kamala got exposed in guetemala and joes performance at g7 wandering around interrupting people and generally acting like a doting grandad was tough to watch and the man should not be put in that position. Is Jill Biden the president or Susan rice ?

sorry, what?  ;D

Don't worry about Gmac. He's just trying to console himself with the moderate Dems in charge and the GOP an irrational, bigoted dumpster fire being stoked by an egomaniacal wannabe despot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 12:19:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2021, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
In any other Country ut would be a 1st April story

https://m.independent.ie/videos/texas-representative-asks-forest-service-to-alter-moons-orbit-to-tackle-climate-change-40526783.html
It's painful to watch, isn't it?

There's plenty more where Gohmert and Greene and Bobert and the rest came from.

Check out this genius from NH.

After stealing some lawmakers wine during the Capitol insurrection, he's now running in the midterms. He thinks the riot will help him because he has demonstrated, through the riot, that he "shows up" and "any attention is good attention"!

It gets better though. The interviewer had to explain to him that the seat he is running for is in fact a US congressional seat, not a state position. Apparently he was unaware of this.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/politics/nh-man-arrested-after-he-chugged-wine-at-capitol-riot-says-hes-running-for-congress/2404498/ (https://www.nbcboston.com/news/politics/nh-man-arrested-after-he-chugged-wine-at-capitol-riot-says-hes-running-for-congress/2404498/)

This is where conservatives in the US are at.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 16, 2021, 06:20:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 12:19:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2021, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
In any other Country ut would be a 1st April story

https://m.independent.ie/videos/texas-representative-asks-forest-service-to-alter-moons-orbit-to-tackle-climate-change-40526783.html
It's painful to watch, isn't it?

There's plenty more where Gohmert and Greene and Bobert and the rest came from.

Check out this genius from NH.

After stealing some lawmakers wine during the Capitol insurrection, he's now running in the midterms. He thinks the riot will help him because he has demonstrated, through the riot, that he "shows up" and "any attention is good attention"!

It gets better though. The interviewer had to explain to him that the seat he is running for is in fact a US congressional seat, not a state position. Apparently he was unaware of this.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/politics/nh-man-arrested-after-he-chugged-wine-at-capitol-riot-says-hes-running-for-congress/2404498/ (https://www.nbcboston.com/news/politics/nh-man-arrested-after-he-chugged-wine-at-capitol-riot-says-hes-running-for-congress/2404498/)

This is where conservatives in the US are at.
there is a Democrat president who is clearly in major cognitive decline and the Vice President is a complete imbecile and the media and Democrat party are trying to cover it up but hey  look at this guy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 06:57:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 16, 2021, 06:20:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 12:19:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2021, 07:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 11, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
In any other Country ut would be a 1st April story

https://m.independent.ie/videos/texas-representative-asks-forest-service-to-alter-moons-orbit-to-tackle-climate-change-40526783.html
It's painful to watch, isn't it?

There's plenty more where Gohmert and Greene and Bobert and the rest came from.

Check out this genius from NH.

After stealing some lawmakers wine during the Capitol insurrection, he's now running in the midterms. He thinks the riot will help him because he has demonstrated, through the riot, that he "shows up" and "any attention is good attention"!

It gets better though. The interviewer had to explain to him that the seat he is running for is in fact a US congressional seat, not a state position. Apparently he was unaware of this.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/politics/nh-man-arrested-after-he-chugged-wine-at-capitol-riot-says-hes-running-for-congress/2404498/ (https://www.nbcboston.com/news/politics/nh-man-arrested-after-he-chugged-wine-at-capitol-riot-says-hes-running-for-congress/2404498/)

This is where conservatives in the US are at.
there is a Democrat president who is clearly in major cognitive decline and the Vice President is a complete imbecile and the media and Democrat party are trying to cover it up but hey  look at this guy

So the Dems are trying to cover things up by putting both front and centre of world news? ;D

Did Biden literally not meet with Putin and the G7 leaders within the past few hours and days?

I could have sworn seeing blanket coverage in the media, but I guess I must have been mistaken as its actually being suppressed. ;)

And seriously, Biden is and always has been a gaffe machine. Stop with the mental gymnastics trying to equate him and the Dems in general with Trump and what is going on with the GOP.

This NH dude is a nobody and normally wouldn't be worth even laughing at. But the point is that he is perfectly symbolic and representative of what the Republican Party and the conservative movement in general has become.

Perhaps you and your fellow travelers will do everyone a favour and take your party back from these morons, but you'd want to get a move on. The takeover is well underway and proceeding at breakneck speed across the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 18, 2021, 11:03:40 PM
Haven't been following the news too closely. What are the conservative grievance babies whining about this week? Is it talking to kids about racism? Or Hunter Biden?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on June 20, 2021, 07:28:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

You think it is just in Democrat control cities?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on June 20, 2021, 07:28:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

You think it is just in Democrat control cities?
of major cities yes , homeless off the charts drug addicts everywhere, no enforcement of law on criminals that's what's going on in Sf .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on June 20, 2021, 07:28:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

You think it is just in Democrat control cities?
of major cities yes , homeless off the charts drug addicts everywhere, no enforcement of law on criminals that's what's going on in Sf .

800 people murdered in Chicago in past 12 months..........that's downright insane

https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

1. What are the military going to do?
2. Are the right wing ever going to alllow something (ANYTHING??) to be done about guns?
3. Define "free fall". I'm in NYC. I don't see too many leaving. Traffic's getting f**king crazy during rush hour. Subway's getting packed again.
4. Who is beetle juice?
5. You're seething about Democratic cities. Tell us, what would the situation in Chicago be like with a GOP mayor and council. Make them as Trumpy as you like.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

1. What are the military going to do?
2. Are the right wing ever going to alllow something (ANYTHING??) to be done about guns?
3. Define "free fall". I'm in NYC. I don't see too many leaving. Traffic's getting f**king crazy during rush hour. Subway's getting packed again.
4. Who is beetle juice?
5. You're seething about Democratic cities. Tell us, what would the situation in Chicago be like with a GOP mayor and council. Make them as Trumpy as you like.
national guard , it's a war zone 50/60 people shot every weekend and the mayor aka beetle juice won't do anything about it . Black live matter my ass only when a white person is involved.
It's the culture not the guns .
My opinion I see the same stuff happening in sf , soft on crime doesn't work , stealing up to $950 is a ticket in sf and scumbags are racking up 100's of tickets.
We will never know because most black people are more interested in looking backwards than the future.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

https://twitter.com/Anthea06274890/status/1406622598906236929?s=20

I spend quite a bit of time between Ireland and Chicago and came across some horrendous murders and savage acts of violence. But when I go back to Ireland people tend not to grasp what you tell them. Sometimes it has to be seen to be believed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2021, 05:39:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

1. What are the military going to do?
2. Are the right wing ever going to alllow something (ANYTHING??) to be done about guns?
3. Define "free fall". I'm in NYC. I don't see too many leaving. Traffic's getting f**king crazy during rush hour. Subway's getting packed again.
4. Who is beetle juice?
5. You're seething about Democratic cities. Tell us, what would the situation in Chicago be like with a GOP mayor and council. Make them as Trumpy as you like.
national guard , it's a war zone 50/60 people shot every weekend and the mayor aka beetle juice won't do anything about it . Black live matter my ass only when a white person is involved.
It's the culture not the guns .
My opinion I see the same stuff happening in sf , soft on crime doesn't work , stealing up to $950 is a ticket in sf and scumbags are racking up 100's of tickets.
We will never know because most black people are more interested in looking backwards than the future.

Gangland warfare is a cultural thing?

"Most black people are more interested in looking backwards than the future"??

"Black live matter my ass only when a white person is involved."

You're really drinking the lunatic, Trumpian kool aid, aren't you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2021, 05:46:03 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

https://twitter.com/Anthea06274890/status/1406622598906236929?s=20

I spend quite a bit of time between Ireland and Chicago and came across some horrendous murders and savage acts of violence. But when I go back to Ireland people tend not to grasp what you tell them. Sometimes it has to be seen to be believed.

You might want to attach a warning so people have some idea what they're clicking on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 05:39:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

1. What are the military going to do?
2. Are the right wing ever going to alllow something (ANYTHING??) to be done about guns?
3. Define "free fall". I'm in NYC. I don't see too many leaving. Traffic's getting f**king crazy during rush hour. Subway's getting packed again.
4. Who is beetle juice?
5. You're seething about Democratic cities. Tell us, what would the situation in Chicago be like with a GOP mayor and council. Make them as Trumpy as you like.
national guard , it's a war zone 50/60 people shot every weekend and the mayor aka beetle juice won't do anything about it . Black live matter my ass only when a white person is involved.
It's the culture not the guns .
My opinion I see the same stuff happening in sf , soft on crime doesn't work , stealing up to $950 is a ticket in sf and scumbags are racking up 100's of tickets.
We will never know because most black people are more interested in looking backwards than the future.

Gangland warfare is a cultural thing?

"Most black people are more interested in looking backwards than the future"??

"Black live matter my ass only when a white person is involved."

You're really drinking the lunatic, Trumpian kool aid, aren't you?

For the month of May 2021 there was 21 white people murdered by blacks in the United States. If you don't believe me I will take the time out to write down their names. You can do your own research on each case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2021, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 05:39:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

1. What are the military going to do?
2. Are the right wing ever going to alllow something (ANYTHING??) to be done about guns?
3. Define "free fall". I'm in NYC. I don't see too many leaving. Traffic's getting f**king crazy during rush hour. Subway's getting packed again.
4. Who is beetle juice?
5. You're seething about Democratic cities. Tell us, what would the situation in Chicago be like with a GOP mayor and council. Make them as Trumpy as you like.
national guard , it's a war zone 50/60 people shot every weekend and the mayor aka beetle juice won't do anything about it . Black live matter my ass only when a white person is involved.
It's the culture not the guns .
My opinion I see the same stuff happening in sf , soft on crime doesn't work , stealing up to $950 is a ticket in sf and scumbags are racking up 100's of tickets.
We will never know because most black people are more interested in looking backwards than the future.

Gangland warfare is a cultural thing?

"Most black people are more interested in looking backwards than the future"??

"Black live matter my ass only when a white person is involved."

You're really drinking the lunatic, Trumpian kool aid, aren't you?

For the month of May 2021 there was 21 white people murdered by blacks in the United States. If you don't believe me I will take the time out to write down their names. You can do your own research on each case.

Have I stated somewhere that white people are not or never murdered by black people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 06:26:55 PM
If anyone interested in reading the statistical breakdown of murders in Chicago.

https://heyjackass.com/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 06:29:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 05:39:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

1. What are the military going to do?
2. Are the right wing ever going to alllow something (ANYTHING??) to be done about guns?
3. Define "free fall". I'm in NYC. I don't see too many leaving. Traffic's getting f**king crazy during rush hour. Subway's getting packed again.
4. Who is beetle juice?
5. You're seething about Democratic cities. Tell us, what would the situation in Chicago be like with a GOP mayor and council. Make them as Trumpy as you like.
national guard , it's a war zone 50/60 people shot every weekend and the mayor aka beetle juice won't do anything about it . Black live matter my ass only when a white person is involved.
It's the culture not the guns .
My opinion I see the same stuff happening in sf , soft on crime doesn't work , stealing up to $950 is a ticket in sf and scumbags are racking up 100's of tickets.
We will never know because most black people are more interested in looking backwards than the future.

Gangland warfare is a cultural thing?

"Most black people are more interested in looking backwards than the future"??

"Black live matter my ass only when a white person is involved."

You're really drinking the lunatic, Trumpian kool aid, aren't you?
not at all , in lots of places people open carry guns and have rifles and other weapons but they are not shooting each other every day of the year so yes it is cultural.
Appeasement for the past doesn't work , I'm sure the English kept my family down for hundreds of years but looking back to that doesn't do me any good does it .
If Black Lives Matter where is the outrage about Chicago and what's going on there for years ? Most of the victims are black who happen to be shot by other black people , it's a simple question do their lives matter less ? I find it hard to believe that any of this is deemed right wing trumpian kool aid and if it is maybe you need to have a sip..
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 06:44:26 PM
The people behind black lives matter.

Tom Steyer
Dustin Mokovitz
Donald Sussman
J.B. Pritzker
Michael Bloomberg
Haim Sapan
James Simons
Stephen Spielberg
George Soros
Jeffery Katzenberg

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

https://twitter.com/Anthea06274890/status/1406622598906236929?s=20

I spend quite a bit of time between Ireland and Chicago and came across some horrendous murders and savage acts of violence. But when I go back to Ireland people tend not to grasp what you tell them. Sometimes it has to be seen to be believed.
the bottom line on this is that if a group white guys pulled out 2 black guys out of a car and executed them the national media would be all over it 24/7 and there would be riots and looting but because it's a group of black guys little will be said and it's just another day in the hood but why is that
There is no political points to be scored talking about it for the Democrats
They don't care how they behave in the hood really just vote for us
They don't expect anything else so they don't care
Pandering to this bs needs to stop before the country gets out of control.
How many of those hoods had a father figure in their house I wonder ?  and remember breaking up the traditional family is one of blm main goals , how's that working out in  Chicago ? Read the stats.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2021, 06:48:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

https://twitter.com/Anthea06274890/status/1406622598906236929?s=20

I spend quite a bit of time between Ireland and Chicago and came across some horrendous murders and savage acts of violence. But when I go back to Ireland people tend not to grasp what you tell them. Sometimes it has to be seen to be believed.
the bottom line on this is that if a group white guys pulled out 2 black guys out of a car and executed them the national media would be all over it 24/7 and there would be riots and looting but because it's a group of black guys little will be said and it's just another day in the hood but why is that
There is no political points to be scored talking about it for the Democrats
They don't care how they behave in the hood really just vote for us
They don't expect anything else so they don't care
Pandering to this bs needs to stop before the country gets out of control.
How many of those hoods had a father figure in their house I wonder ?  and remember breaking up the traditional family is one of blm main goals , how's that working out in  Chicago ? Read the stats.

1.   People shoot each other and get sucked into spirals of tit-for-tat retaliation in lots of cities and countries where criminal gangs have taken hold of communities. Is it part of the "culture" in those places?
2.   Tell us what you know about what black communities are doing in Chicago and other inner cities to combat street and gang violence. You're obviously better informed than the rest of us about how their work is failing and how they're only moved off their couches when a white person kills one of them.
3.   The BLM movement is specifically about state treatment of black people. The state, as in the national or local governments whose agents represent everyone and are supposed to treat everyone the same. Something that's not really expected from criminals and drug gangs, wherever they are. But you don't want to hear about that for some reason, so you claim black people don't care about what's happening in their inner city neighbourhoods.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 06:53:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

https://twitter.com/Anthea06274890/status/1406622598906236929?s=20

I spend quite a bit of time between Ireland and Chicago and came across some horrendous murders and savage acts of violence. But when I go back to Ireland people tend not to grasp what you tell them. Sometimes it has to be seen to be believed.
the bottom line on this is that if a group white guys pulled out 2 black guys out of a car and executed them the national media would be all over it 24/7 and there would be riots and looting but because it's a group of black guys little will be said and it's just another day in the hood but why is that
There is no political points to be scored talking about it for the Democrats
They don't care how they behave in the hood really just vote for us
They don't expect anything else so they don't care
Pandering to this bs needs to stop before the country gets out of control.
How many of those hoods had a father figure in their house I wonder ?  and remember breaking up the traditional family is one of blm main goals , how's that working out in  Chicago ? Read the stats.

I agree 100% with everything you say. I seen it in real time so I don't need video evidence.

Too much of a TV culture which is designed to block the truth.

MSM isn't media,its the 6th branch of the armed forces. Propaganda division.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2021, 06:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

https://twitter.com/Anthea06274890/status/1406622598906236929?s=20

I spend quite a bit of time between Ireland and Chicago and came across some horrendous murders and savage acts of violence. But when I go back to Ireland people tend not to grasp what you tell them. Sometimes it has to be seen to be believed.
the bottom line on this is that if a group white guys pulled out 2 black guys out of a car and executed them the national media would be all over it 24/7 and there would be riots and looting but because it's a group of black guys little will be said and it's just another day in the hood but why is that
There is no political points to be scored talking about it for the Democrats
They don't care how they behave in the hood really just vote for us
They don't expect anything else so they don't care
Pandering to this bs needs to stop before the country gets out of control.
How many of those hoods had a father figure in their house I wonder ?  and remember breaking up the traditional family is one of blm main goals , how's that working out in  Chicago ? Read the stats.

When does any inner city violence make national headlines, anywhere?

Does "white-on-white" violence make big headlines?

There are mass shootings happening every f**king day in the US, and they're passing with barely a second glance at this stage, so run of the mill have they become.

"Oh because its black guys, little will be said". Except by right wingers who couldn't give a single f**k about racism except to deny that it exists and to try to ban the odious threat of critical race theory (i.e. any honest discussion of racism, Jim Crow and slavery) in schools.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2021, 06:56:47 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 06:44:26 PM
The people behind black lives matter.

Tom Steyer
Dustin Mokovitz
Donald Sussman
J.B. Pritzker
Michael Bloomberg
Haim Sapan
James Simons
Stephen Spielberg
George Soros
Jeffery Katzenberg

Soros should be closer to the top. ::) ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 07:13:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 06:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

https://twitter.com/Anthea06274890/status/1406622598906236929?s=20

I spend quite a bit of time between Ireland and Chicago and came across some horrendous murders and savage acts of violence. But when I go back to Ireland people tend not to grasp what you tell them. Sometimes it has to be seen to be believed.
the bottom line on this is that if a group white guys pulled out 2 black guys out of a car and executed them the national media would be all over it 24/7 and there would be riots and looting but because it's a group of black guys little will be said and it's just another day in the hood but why is that
There is no political points to be scored talking about it for the Democrats
They don't care how they behave in the hood really just vote for us
They don't expect anything else so they don't care
Pandering to this bs needs to stop before the country gets out of control.
How many of those hoods had a father figure in their house I wonder ?  and remember breaking up the traditional family is one of blm main goals , how's that working out in  Chicago ? Read the stats.

When does any inner city violence make national headlines, anywhere?

Does "white-on-white" violence make big headlines?

There are mass shootings happening every f**king day in the US, and they're passing with barely a second glance at this stage, so run of the mill have they become.

"Oh because its black guys, little will be said". Except by right wingers who couldn't give a single f**k about racism except to deny that it exists and to try to ban the odious threat of critical race theory (i.e. any honest discussion of racism, Jim Crow and slavery) in schools.
remember the white catholic high school kid that smiled at a Native American? National news for a month , this execution ? crickets . J70  your party are the basket of irredeemables , the phonies , the liars  .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 21, 2021, 08:15:35 PM
You still haven't told us who Beetlejuice is and why you call that person that name?  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 21, 2021, 10:02:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
and remember breaking up the traditional family is one of blm main goals ,

You'll believe any bullshit , won't you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 21, 2021, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 06:55:56 PM


When does any inner city violence make national headlines, anywhere?

Does "white-on-white" violence make big headlines?

There are mass shootings happening every f**king day in the US, and they're passing with barely a second glance at this stage, so run of the mill have they become.

"Oh because its black guys, little will be said". Except by right wingers who couldn't give a single f**k about racism except to deny that it exists and to try to ban the odious threat of critical race theory (i.e. any honest discussion of racism, Jim Crow and slavery) in schools.

The conservatives never talk about "white-on-white" violence. Only when black people are misbehaving do the conservatives feel the need to bring race into it. They aren't even trying to hide the hateful racist bigotry that underpins their ideology.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 21, 2021, 10:38:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 07:13:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 21, 2021, 06:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 21, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 21, 2021, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
Anyone see the video from Chicago where the 2 people were pulled from their car and  shot yesterday  they had a Puerto Rico flag out back window and the animals executed them on the side of the street
Time to remove beetle juice from office and get some control over the city before the military has to be called in to keep it under control.
No wonder anyone with the means to do so are leaving there ,Baltimore , San Francisco, Los Angeles , New York and all the other Democrat cities that are in free fall and completely screwed up by liberal policy.

https://twitter.com/Anthea06274890/status/1406622598906236929?s=20

I spend quite a bit of time between Ireland and Chicago and came across some horrendous murders and savage acts of violence. But when I go back to Ireland people tend not to grasp what you tell them. Sometimes it has to be seen to be believed.
the bottom line on this is that if a group white guys pulled out 2 black guys out of a car and executed them the national media would be all over it 24/7 and there would be riots and looting but because it's a group of black guys little will be said and it's just another day in the hood but why is that
There is no political points to be scored talking about it for the Democrats
They don't care how they behave in the hood really just vote for us
They don't expect anything else so they don't care
Pandering to this bs needs to stop before the country gets out of control.
How many of those hoods had a father figure in their house I wonder ?  and remember breaking up the traditional family is one of blm main goals , how's that working out in  Chicago ? Read the stats.

When does any inner city violence make national headlines, anywhere?

Does "white-on-white" violence make big headlines?

There are mass shootings happening every f**king day in the US, and they're passing with barely a second glance at this stage, so run of the mill have they become.

"Oh because its black guys, little will be said". Except by right wingers who couldn't give a single f**k about racism except to deny that it exists and to try to ban the odious threat of critical race theory (i.e. any honest discussion of racism, Jim Crow and slavery) in schools.
remember the white catholic high school kid that smiled at a Native American? National news for a month , this execution ? crickets . J70  your party are the basket of irredeemables , the phonies , the liars  .

You see, this is where you and I differ Trumper.

I didn't bring up that kid here. I rarely highlight anything like that on this thread.

Whereas you charge in once or twice a week to resurrect the tread with some white grievance (or Biden is senile) shite you just heard on Fox News or Breitbart or wherever the f**k you get your news, and most of the time you slunk off after someone shows it up for the vacuous shite it almost always is.

The very serious and tragic problems in Chicago are nothing but a political football to you and the right, a means of scoring points. I guess it's all you have given the utter moral, ethical and intellectual bankruptcy of the GOP under Trump. I would expect the people of Chicago would elect Republican representatives if any serious ones were put forward who could begin to address the city's problems in a serious and sober manner. It happens here in NY from time to time, although the GOP here too has now gone all in on Trump and are basically unelectable. But we have a Dem primary tomorrow to for all intents and purposes elect the next mayor, and it looks like a moderate centrist is going to win. I'm voting for an ex-NYPD police captain myself, who is pushing back against the "defund the police" nonsense while also advocating for police reform. If he (Eric Adams) doesn't win, hopefully Andrew Yang, also a pragmatist for the most part, gets it. Meanwhile, the GOP is likely going with Curtis Sliwa, a clown talk show host, who became famous for founding the Guardian Angels and getting shot by John Gotti.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 12:06:53 AM
If black lives really mattered to blm they would be protesting day and night in Chicago they can't because one of their main aims is to break up the traditional family unit and that is what is causing so many problems in cities like Chicago, this is a fact but people are afraid to say it .
If a republican went to canvass in the south side of Chicago they would probably end up like the 2 in the video and who paints everyone that doesn't agree with them on race issues as racist? The Democrat party.
By the way the mayor of Chicago needs to take 10m out of the Chicago cdc budget for coronavirus to combat white supremacy , this in a 2/3 minority populated city where black on black crime is off the charts , god help the residents of the place get out while you can .
The Asian attacks nog getting much air time lately either , I wonder why
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 12:40:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 12:06:53 AM
If black lives really mattered to blm they would be protesting day and night in Chicago they can't because one of their main aims is to break up the traditional family unit and that is what is causing so many problems in cities like Chicago, this is a fact but people are afraid to say it .
If a republican went to canvass in the south side of Chicago they would probably end up like the 2 in the video and who paints everyone that doesn't agree with them on race issues as racist? The Democrat party.
By the way the mayor of Chicago needs to take 10m out of the Chicago cdc budget for coronavirus to combat white supremacy , this in a 2/3 minority populated city where black on black crime is off the charts , god help the residents of the place get out while you can .
The Asian attacks nog getting much air time lately either , I wonder why

BLM wants to break up families and Republican candidates would be pulled out their cars and shot?

You're out of your f**king mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2021, 01:26:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 12:40:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 12:06:53 AM
If black lives really mattered to blm they would be protesting day and night in Chicago they can't because one of their main aims is to break up the traditional family unit and that is what is causing so many problems in cities like Chicago, this is a fact but people are afraid to say it .
If a republican went to canvass in the south side of Chicago they would probably end up like the 2 in the video and who paints everyone that doesn't agree with them on race issues as racist? The Democrat party.
By the way the mayor of Chicago needs to take 10m out of the Chicago cdc budget for coronavirus to combat white supremacy , this in a 2/3 minority populated city where black on black crime is off the charts , god help the residents of the place get out while you can .
The Asian attacks nog getting much air time lately either , I wonder why

BLM wants to break up families and Republican candidates would be pulled out their cars and shot?

You're out of your f**king mind.

He's actually right

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8759959/BLM-removes-page-mentions-disrupting-Western-nuclear-family-website.html

(unsurprisingly NY Times, CNN and WaPo do not seem to carry any stories relating to the scrubbing of the BLM a website)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 02:10:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 01:26:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 12:40:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 12:06:53 AM
If black lives really mattered to blm they would be protesting day and night in Chicago they can't because one of their main aims is to break up the traditional family unit and that is what is causing so many problems in cities like Chicago, this is a fact but people are afraid to say it .
If a republican went to canvass in the south side of Chicago they would probably end up like the 2 in the video and who paints everyone that doesn't agree with them on race issues as racist? The Democrat party.
By the way the mayor of Chicago needs to take 10m out of the Chicago cdc budget for coronavirus to combat white supremacy , this in a 2/3 minority populated city where black on black crime is off the charts , god help the residents of the place get out while you can .
The Asian attacks nog getting much air time lately either , I wonder why

BLM wants to break up families and Republican candidates would be pulled out their cars and shot?

You're out of your f**king mind.

He's actually right

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8759959/BLM-removes-page-mentions-disrupting-Western-nuclear-family-website.html

(unsurprisingly NY Times, CNN and WaPo do not seem to carry any stories relating to the scrubbing of the BLM a website)

1. The text that was allegedly scrubbed is nowhere near as malignant as Gmac implied.
2. That said, presumably saner heads prevailed, they realized people were not supporting their cause for that reason, and they abandoned that particular stated aim last summer. Or maybe they're adopting the GOP strategy for the last few decades and trying not to say the bad part out loud.
3. Part of my quote (and the main reason for my reaction) was about his claim that a Republican going to canvas would PROBABLY end up pulled out their car and murdered. I'm sorry, but that's complete and utter delusion by a person and people trying to cast themselves as victims.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2021, 02:25:45 AM
He right on that point too


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XTm_hi5kAZQ&feature=youtu.be



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 02:42:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 02:25:45 AM
He right on that point too


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XTm_hi5kAZQ&feature=youtu.be

A TMZ video from five years ago means that Republican candidates and campaigners going into south Chicago will PROBABLY be pulled out of their cars and murdered.

Ok whitey. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 02:49:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 02:42:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 02:25:45 AM
He right on that point too


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XTm_hi5kAZQ&feature=youtu.be

A TMZ video from five years ago means that Republican candidates and campaigners going into south Chicago will PROBABLY be pulled out of their cars and murdered.

Ok whitey. ::)
if they stay around jussie smolletts  neighborhood they would probably be ok with all the maga heads around there .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2021, 03:10:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 02:42:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 02:25:45 AM
He right on that point too


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XTm_hi5kAZQ&feature=youtu.be

A TMZ video from five years ago means that Republican candidates and campaigners going into south Chicago will PROBABLY be pulled out of their cars and murdered.

Ok whitey. ::)

You obviously don't watch the news

https://youtu.be/iLbG3Ap5bxk

I believe that serious bodily harm would come to any Republican campaigning in these cities
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 12:35:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 03:10:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 02:42:47 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 02:25:45 AM
He right on that point too


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XTm_hi5kAZQ&feature=youtu.be

A TMZ video from five years ago means that Republican candidates and campaigners going into south Chicago will PROBABLY be pulled out of their cars and murdered.

Ok whitey. ::)

You obviously don't watch the news

https://youtu.be/iLbG3Ap5bxk

I believe that serious bodily harm would come to any Republican campaigning in these cities

You poor craytur whitey.

A bunch of people shouting and shoving at a protest (and stealing hats!), something that happens numerous times during any campaign.

But instead of your 2016 anecdotes, why don't you find some data that show that Republicans are unsafe campaigning in "those cities".

I live in one of those cities. Only flag on my street this year was a couple of Trump flags flown by an ignorant gobshite from Dublin who lives across the street from me (I thought he was a p***k for separate reasons way before he revealed his political leanings). He had it up until February. I guess he was concerned with stopping the steal. But no one every bothered him about it. I guess he doesn't really feel all that threatened. Neither does the strange dude who walks his dog up and down the block every day in his MAGA hat, or the Polish lad up the hill who often sported a "lock her up" t-shirt. I work in Harlem at a large institution. I've seen a few work colleagues wearing Trump masks last autumn as they came and left work, heading for the subway. Never once heard of any of them getting any trouble. And that part of NYC, including those who would be on the subway, is probably 80% Dem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heraldnews.com/amp/42913883

https://wbsm.com/fairhaven-pro-trump-rally-marred-by-senseless-act-opinion/

Believe what you want....2 very blue collar Democratic cities.....2 pretty serious unprovoked assaults on Trump supporters-one an 82 year old man
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 05:33:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heraldnews.com/amp/42913883

https://wbsm.com/fairhaven-pro-trump-rally-marred-by-senseless-act-opinion/

Believe what you want....2 very blue collar Democratic cities.....2 pretty serious unprovoked assaults on Trump supporters-one an 82 year old man

I can google attacks on opposition supporters too.

Minneapolis Trumper attacks old couple with a golf club after he sees them with a Biden sign
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62 (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62)

MD man sucker-punched while walking down the street with a Biden-Harris flag
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html (https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html)

Loudmouth Trump biker thug wades into Biden supporters in Bakersfield CA.
https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/ (https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:55:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 05:33:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heraldnews.com/amp/42913883

https://wbsm.com/fairhaven-pro-trump-rally-marred-by-senseless-act-opinion/

Believe what you want....2 very blue collar Democratic cities.....2 pretty serious unprovoked assaults on Trump supporters-one an 82 year old man

I can google attacks on opposition supporters too.

Minneapolis Trumper attacks old couple with a golf club after he sees them with a Biden sign
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62 (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62)

MD man sucker-punched while walking down the street with a Biden-Harris flag
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html (https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html)

Loudmouth Trump biker thug wades into Biden supporters in Bakersfield CA.
https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/ (https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/)

I never said Trump supporters didn't attack people but you implied that Republicans would be able safely campaign in hardcore minority inner city neighborhoods

That's simply untrue
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:09:38 PM
Another phony Democrat exposed yesterday Sheldon whitehouse and family all members of a whites only beach  club in Rhode Island , another story to be swept under the carpet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:11:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:55:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 05:33:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heraldnews.com/amp/42913883

https://wbsm.com/fairhaven-pro-trump-rally-marred-by-senseless-act-opinion/

Believe what you want....2 very blue collar Democratic cities.....2 pretty serious unprovoked assaults on Trump supporters-one an 82 year old man

I can google attacks on opposition supporters too.

Minneapolis Trumper attacks old couple with a golf club after he sees them with a Biden sign
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62 (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62)

MD man sucker-punched while walking down the street with a Biden-Harris flag
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html (https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html)

Loudmouth Trump biker thug wades into Biden supporters in Bakersfield CA.
https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/ (https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/)

I never said Trump supporters didn't attack people but you implied that Republicans would be able safely campaign in hardcore minority inner city neighborhoods

That's simply untrue

I didn't imply. I said straight out there's no reason they couldn't do so.

If security is a concern, you take steps to protect the candidate and staff.

By your logic, Biden can't campaign in the suburbs of Minneapolis because some header took a golf club to beat up an old couple.

I can only imagine the conniptions Fox News and the rest would be going through if they somehow thought that there were no-go areas for Republican candidates! They're drumming up the mouth breathers with critical race theory, trans people and stop the steal. What would they doing if they had an actual legitimate grievance??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:09:38 PM
Another phony Democrat exposed yesterday Sheldon whitehouse and family all members of a whites only beach  club in Rhode Island , another story to be swept under the carpet.

That's funny.

I just googled Whitehouse, and the three stories at the top of the page were from NBC, CBS and USA Today. Go to the google news tab and a Washington Post story joins them.

Very local, low-exposure media outlets there.

Poor victim Gmac.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:09:38 PM
Another phony Democrat exposed yesterday Sheldon whitehouse and family all members of a whites only beach  club in Rhode Island , another story to be swept under the carpet.

That's funny.

I just googled Whitehouse, and the three stories at the top of the page were from NBC, CBS and USA Today. Go to the google news tab and a Washington Post story joins them.

Very local, low-exposure media outlets there.

Poor victim Gmac.
im not a victim the suckers voting for this guy are , I'm sure he portrays himself as a progressive , a champion of blm and lgbtq and an enemy of white supremacy the most dangerous threat to America .so if he's a phony about this what else is he lying about and you can add the Democrats to that also . 1984 ,the racists are in charge of the anti racism policy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2021, 06:56:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:11:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:55:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 05:33:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heraldnews.com/amp/42913883

https://wbsm.com/fairhaven-pro-trump-rally-marred-by-senseless-act-opinion/

Believe what you want....2 very blue collar Democratic cities.....2 pretty serious unprovoked assaults on Trump supporters-one an 82 year old man

I can google attacks on opposition supporters too.

Minneapolis Trumper attacks old couple with a golf club after he sees them with a Biden sign
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62 (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62)

MD man sucker-punched while walking down the street with a Biden-Harris flag
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html (https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html)

Loudmouth Trump biker thug wades into Biden supporters in Bakersfield CA.
https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/ (https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/)

I never said Trump supporters didn't attack people but you implied that Republicans would be able safely campaign in hardcore minority inner city neighborhoods

That's simply untrue

I didn't imply. I said straight out there's no reason they couldn't do so.

If security is a concern, you take steps to protect the candidate and staff.

By your logic, Biden can't campaign in the suburbs of Minneapolis because some header took a golf club to beat up an old couple.

I can only imagine the conniptions Fox News and the rest would be going through if they somehow thought that there were no-go areas for Republican candidates! They're drumming up the mouth breathers with critical race theory, trans people and stop the steal. What would they doing if they had an actual legitimate grievance??

Lol-no reason they couldn't do so. Maybe the fact they'd get killed or seriously assaulted would be a good place to start





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:09:38 PM
Another phony Democrat exposed yesterday Sheldon whitehouse and family all members of a whites only beach  club in Rhode Island , another story to be swept under the carpet.

That's funny.

I just googled Whitehouse, and the three stories at the top of the page were from NBC, CBS and USA Today. Go to the google news tab and a Washington Post story joins them.

Very local, low-exposure media outlets there.

Poor victim Gmac.
im not a victim the suckers voting for this guy are , I'm sure he portrays himself as a progressive , a champion of blm and lgbtq and an enemy of white supremacy the most dangerous threat to America .so if he's a phony about this what else is he lying about and you can add the Democrats to that also . 1984 ,the racists are in charge of the anti racism policy.

Any chance of a coherent, intelligent argument?

Why are they suckers?

For holding their nose and overlooking this rich child of privilege's personal hypocrisy and looking instead at his voting record and positions?

Is that better or worse than voting for another rich child of privilege who both preached AND put into practice the shadier parts of his personal views and life like Trump did?

Is that better or worse than the majority of Republican senators and, to a lesser extent, congress people, who publicly supported Trump and his rhetoric and conduct, while privately confiding to journalists across the board that he was a sc**bag and they'd much rather he didn't have the support of the GOP base?

Apparently this guy has been trying to sidestep his membership of this hyper-exclusive club since 2006. I suspect that this particular resurfacing of the story will force him to face his hypocrisy.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 07:00:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 06:56:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:11:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:55:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 05:33:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 22, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heraldnews.com/amp/42913883

https://wbsm.com/fairhaven-pro-trump-rally-marred-by-senseless-act-opinion/

Believe what you want....2 very blue collar Democratic cities.....2 pretty serious unprovoked assaults on Trump supporters-one an 82 year old man

I can google attacks on opposition supporters too.

Minneapolis Trumper attacks old couple with a golf club after he sees them with a Biden sign
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62 (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-minnesota-minneapolis-a1890543f7a7c476e695f44d7405dd62)

MD man sucker-punched while walking down the street with a Biden-Harris flag
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html (https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/news/cc-assault-biden-rally-20201207-5vimiwvanng4bomjxhokwraorm-story.html)

Loudmouth Trump biker thug wades into Biden supporters in Bakersfield CA.
https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/ (https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/viral-assault-da-charges-trump-supporter-who-stormed-into-pro-biden-group-in-attack-viewed-by-thousands-on-social-media/)

I never said Trump supporters didn't attack people but you implied that Republicans would be able safely campaign in hardcore minority inner city neighborhoods

That's simply untrue

I didn't imply. I said straight out there's no reason they couldn't do so.

If security is a concern, you take steps to protect the candidate and staff.

By your logic, Biden can't campaign in the suburbs of Minneapolis because some header took a golf club to beat up an old couple.

I can only imagine the conniptions Fox News and the rest would be going through if they somehow thought that there were no-go areas for Republican candidates! They're drumming up the mouth breathers with critical race theory, trans people and stop the steal. What would they doing if they had an actual legitimate grievance??

Lol-no reason they couldn't do so. Maybe the fact they'd get killed or seriously assaulted would be a good place to start

So we're back to whitey's standard proof by anecdote.

As you say yourself, believe what you want. This is a waste of time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 08:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:09:38 PM
Another phony Democrat exposed yesterday Sheldon whitehouse and family all members of a whites only beach  club in Rhode Island , another story to be swept under the carpet.

That's funny.

I just googled Whitehouse, and the three stories at the top of the page were from NBC, CBS and USA Today. Go to the google news tab and a Washington Post story joins them.

Very local, low-exposure media outlets there.

Poor victim Gmac.
im not a victim the suckers voting for this guy are , I'm sure he portrays himself as a progressive , a champion of blm and lgbtq and an enemy of white supremacy the most dangerous threat to America .so if he's a phony about this what else is he lying about and you can add the Democrats to that also . 1984 ,the racists are in charge of the anti racism policy.

Any chance of a coherent, intelligent argument?

Why are they suckers?

For holding their nose and overlooking this rich child of privilege's personal hypocrisy and looking instead at his voting record and positions?

Is that better or worse than voting for another rich child of privilege who both preached AND put into practice the shadier parts of his personal views and life like Trump did?

Is that better or worse than the majority of Republican senators and, to a lesser extent, congress people, who publicly supported Trump and his rhetoric and conduct, while privately confiding to journalists across the board that he was a sc**bag and they'd much rather he didn't have the support of the GOP base?

Apparently this guy has been trying to sidestep his membership of this hyper-exclusive club since 2006. I suspect that this particular resurfacing of the story will force him to face his hypocrisy.
the people who believe in open borders are in charge of border security, I could go on all day
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 22, 2021, 09:04:25 PM
56% approval things must be going well for Biden good to see a bit of stability there again!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 09:11:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 08:59:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 22, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 06:09:38 PM
Another phony Democrat exposed yesterday Sheldon whitehouse and family all members of a whites only beach  club in Rhode Island , another story to be swept under the carpet.

That's funny.

I just googled Whitehouse, and the three stories at the top of the page were from NBC, CBS and USA Today. Go to the google news tab and a Washington Post story joins them.

Very local, low-exposure media outlets there.

Poor victim Gmac.
im not a victim the suckers voting for this guy are , I'm sure he portrays himself as a progressive , a champion of blm and lgbtq and an enemy of white supremacy the most dangerous threat to America .so if he's a phony about this what else is he lying about and you can add the Democrats to that also . 1984 ,the racists are in charge of the anti racism policy.

Any chance of a coherent, intelligent argument?

Why are they suckers?

For holding their nose and overlooking this rich child of privilege's personal hypocrisy and looking instead at his voting record and positions?

Is that better or worse than voting for another rich child of privilege who both preached AND put into practice the shadier parts of his personal views and life like Trump did?

Is that better or worse than the majority of Republican senators and, to a lesser extent, congress people, who publicly supported Trump and his rhetoric and conduct, while privately confiding to journalists across the board that he was a sc**bag and they'd much rather he didn't have the support of the GOP base?

Apparently this guy has been trying to sidestep his membership of this hyper-exclusive club since 2006. I suspect that this particular resurfacing of the story will force him to face his hypocrisy.
the people who believe in open borders are in charge of border security, I could go on all day

Who believes in open borders?

But leaving that aside for a minute, are you saying you're opposed to people being appointed to run agencies and departments when they're personally opposed to the mission of those departments? You don't like "foxes guarding henhouses" as such?

If so, how did you reconcile Trump (and even Bush/Cheney going back) filling the leadership of agencies with responsibility for the environment, worker safety, consumer protection and so on with industry lobbyists and insiders who were vehemently opposed to what those agencies are supposed to do on behalf of the people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 22, 2021, 09:18:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 22, 2021, 09:04:25 PM
56% approval things must be going well for Biden good to see a bit of stability there again!
americans love a good movie   4 years at Bernie's 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 22, 2021, 09:18:52 PM
did we ever figure out who Beetlejuice was?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 22, 2021, 09:30:44 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 22, 2021, 09:18:52 PM
did we ever figure out who Beetlejuice was?

Well known nickname for Mayor of Chicago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 22, 2021, 09:36:31 PM
You have a laugh at how conservatives have to throw around nicknames and make boogeymen out of someone like the mayor of Chicago whose policies and influence have zero impact on their lives thousands of miles away. Pathetic little mites.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 23, 2021, 03:51:01 AM
Their crocodile tears for the poor suffering people of Chicago are less than convincing too, aren't they?

Conservatives: "Poor people have got themselves into their own mess and need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps!"
Also conservatives: "Won't someone think of the poor people in Chicago!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2021, 02:06:57 PM
Interesting read from The Atlantic on police unions and how they make it nigh impossible to oust the "bad apples" from the force.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/bust-the-police-unions/619006/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/bust-the-police-unions/619006/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2021, 02:06:57 PM
Interesting read from The Atlantic on police unions and how they make it nigh impossible to oust the "bad apples" from the force.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/bust-the-police-unions/619006/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/bust-the-police-unions/619006/)

Great piece.

So many of these police unions are led by reactionary, right wing dirtbags. No cop can be criticized or held accountable. Its always the victim's fault. Any attempt to hold them accountable will result in threats of slow-downs and apocalyptic rhetoric against any politician or person who dares to stick their head above the parapet.

Public safety was a big issue in this week's Democtratic mayoral and city council primary elections here in NY. Personally, I voted for Eric Adams, an ex-NYPD captain, who doesn't want to defund the police, but as a police victim himself while a kid, and a reformer during his service, also wants to introduce overdue reforms. I was going to give my vote to our local councilman, Bob Holden, as I felt it was no harm to have a contrary voice in the council amidst all the newly minted very progressive councilors to be elected in other parts of the borough and city, but his high profile events and photo-ops with police union thug chief Pat Lynch meant I just couldn't stomach giving my vote to him (he was going to be elected anyway).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
Have a read of the Wall St. Jl. op ed linked in that piece, J70.  It's written by a police officer.  An eye opener.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2021, 05:13:31 PM
#prayforrudi
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 05:13:44 PM
The border csar is finally going to visit the border announced the same day after Trump said he was going , the phonies strike again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:13:54 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
Have a read of the Wall St. Jl. op ed linked in that piece, J70.  It's written by a police officer.  An eye opener.

I can't see the link
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:16:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 05:13:44 PM
The border csar is finally going to visit the border announced the same day after Trump said he was going , the phonies strike again.

I'll have a look back at the thread, but I don't remember you getting this exercised about what was going on at the border before.

Were you upset a few years ago when Trump was ripping the toddlers out of the arms of their screaming mothers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 05:18:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:16:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 05:13:44 PM
The border csar is finally going to visit the border announced the same day after Trump said he was going , the phonies strike again.

I'll have a look back at the thread, but I don't remember you getting this exercised about what was going on at the border before.

Were you upset a few years ago when Trump was ripping the toddlers out of the arms of their screaming mothers?
i want the border csar to do her job and not let coyotes and cartels run wild that's all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:18:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 24, 2021, 05:13:31 PM
#prayforrudi

Rudi is probably loving this.

Time for the fund raising machine to go into overdrive. Its got all the necessary ingredients - persecution, victimization, New York...

Of course he won't have a word to say in response to the actual reasons he lost his license!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:30:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 05:18:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:16:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 05:13:44 PM
The border csar is finally going to visit the border announced the same day after Trump said he was going , the phonies strike again.

I'll have a look back at the thread, but I don't remember you getting this exercised about what was going on at the border before.

Were you upset a few years ago when Trump was ripping the toddlers out of the arms of their screaming mothers?
i want the border csar to do her job and not let coyotes and cartels run wild that's all

Ok. That's fair enough if genuine.

Its not actually that much higher this year than it was in 2019, going by CBP encounters (which I'm assuming reflect overall attempted crossings).

It rose to a high level earlier this year, but I would assume a lot of that was down to the decline of COVID, as well as the fact that Biden's not going to steal your kids from you. Largest growth has been in a single adults though.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 24, 2021, 05:47:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 05:18:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:16:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 05:13:44 PM
The border csar is finally going to visit the border announced the same day after Trump said he was going , the phonies strike again.

I'll have a look back at the thread, but I don't remember you getting this exercised about what was going on at the border before.

Were you upset a few years ago when Trump was ripping the toddlers out of the arms of their screaming mothers?
i want the border csar to do her job and not let coyotes and cartels run wild that's all

She isn't the border csar, despite GOP efforts to label her as that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2021, 06:13:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:13:54 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
Have a read of the Wall St. Jl. op ed linked in that piece, J70.  It's written by a police officer.  An eye opener.

I can't see the link

It was actually the WaPo.
Here you go:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 24, 2021, 07:27:34 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/202279433_10158329198577135_5841348232075523774_n.png?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=eQOrL93OHPUAX_aFU9c&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=57494b493ad554d66d25437c6276e1a4&oe=60D997E1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 08:23:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:18:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 24, 2021, 05:13:31 PM
#prayforrudi

Rudi is probably loving this.

Time for the fund raising machine to go into overdrive. Its got all the necessary ingredients - persecution, victimization, New York...

Of course he won't have a word to say in response to the actual reasons he lost his license!
purely political but remember the great hope of the left Michael avenatti he is not disbarred even though he has a wrap sheet the length of your arm .every legal expert on cnn should have their license to practice law revoked too for pedaling Russian disinformation for 4 years and lies about the Georgia governor's race .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 08:23:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:18:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 24, 2021, 05:13:31 PM
#prayforrudi

Rudi is probably loving this.

Time for the fund raising machine to go into overdrive. Its got all the necessary ingredients - persecution, victimization, New York...

Of course he won't have a word to say in response to the actual reasons he lost his license!
purely political but remember the great hope of the left Michael avenatti he is not disbarred even though he has a wrap sheet the length of your arm .every legal expert on cnn should have their license to practice law revoked too for pedaling Russian disinformation for 4 years and lies about the Georgia governor's race .

1. When was Avenatti the "great hope of the left"?
2. What lies did the legal experts on CNN "pedal" that would warrant disbarrment? Feel free to be specific.
3. Do you have any defense for Giuliani apart from whataboutery?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 24, 2021, 07:27:34 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/202279433_10158329198577135_5841348232075523774_n.png?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=eQOrL93OHPUAX_aFU9c&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=57494b493ad554d66d25437c6276e1a4&oe=60D997E1)

What's Tucker hiding?? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 09:22:28 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2021, 06:13:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 05:13:54 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
Have a read of the Wall St. Jl. op ed linked in that piece, J70.  It's written by a police officer.  An eye opener.

I can't see the link

It was actually the WaPo.
Here you go:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/)

For the most part, I have nothing but sympathy for what the police officer says. They have a difficult job, and their next encounter could literally be life altering.

However, the first problem is that the misbehaving or bully or criminal cops have historically gotten away with it. The blue wall of silence has always protected these people. The union chiefs don't want to hear about any allegations of misconduct or abuse of power. If iPhones had never been invented, rogue cops would still be getting away with it. Its all very well to say that justice should be allowed to take its course, but when the police as a whole have little to no interest in being held accountable, why wouldn't ordinary citizens be angry and suspicious?

Second, it is fine, again, to advise people that it is futile to behave belligerently to a cop, but that is one of the shortcomings of policing and part of the reason these "defund the cops" AND divert the money to other agencies movements exist. People, especially black people, are becoming reluctant to call the cops when a loved one has a mental episode of some kind, because they know there's a good chance a threatened cop will end up using their weapon. Clearly, police force is required  in some cases. but sometimes disturbed individuals need attention from a medical professional trained in how to de-escalate that type of situation. There's no reason why such professionals should  not be available to at least try to get the situation under control before the cops go in and you end with someone getting shot 20 times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 09:32:46 PM
Joe showing more signs of losing it again today with the creepy whispering voice during  some announcement wtf , meanwhile the other blithering fool Nancy says white supremacy, islamaphobia and anti Semitism all to blame for walkthrough of capitol building on Jan 6 they really are the bottom of the barrel
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 09:43:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 09:32:46 PM
Joe showing more signs of losing it again today with the creepy whispering voice during  some announcement wtf , meanwhile the other blithering fool Nancy says white supremacy, islamaphobia and anti Semitism all to blame for walkthrough of capitol building on Jan 6 they really are the bottom of the barrel

You're talking about "bottom of the barrel" in the same sentence you call the Capitol riot a "walkthrough".

Like I said a few days back... out of your mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 10:14:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 09:43:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 09:32:46 PM
Joe showing more signs of losing it again today with the creepy whispering voice during  some announcement wtf , meanwhile the other blithering fool Nancy says white supremacy, islamaphobia and anti Semitism all to blame for walkthrough of capitol building on Jan 6 they really are the bottom of the barrel

You're talking about "bottom of the barrel" in the same sentence you call the Capitol riot a "walkthrough".

Like I said a few days back... out of your mind.
where is the panel to investigate the looting and  burning of businesses and property last summer , thousands can be identified from videos of the looting ??
The people arrested on Jan 6 are being held without bail .
Police buildings burned , tens of people  killed and thousands injured
Where is the committee to investigate this ?
Next time the gop are in majority they need to stick it to these Mfers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:47:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 10:14:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 09:43:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2021, 09:32:46 PM
Joe showing more signs of losing it again today with the creepy whispering voice during  some announcement wtf , meanwhile the other blithering fool Nancy says white supremacy, islamaphobia and anti Semitism all to blame for walkthrough of capitol building on Jan 6 they really are the bottom of the barrel

You're talking about "bottom of the barrel" in the same sentence you call the Capitol riot a "walkthrough".

Like I said a few days back... out of your mind.
where is the panel to investigate the looting and  burning of businesses and property last summer , thousands can be identified from videos of the looting ??
The people arrested on Jan 6 are being held without bail .
Police buildings burned , tens of people  killed and thousands injured
Where is the committee to investigate this ?
Next time the gop are in majority they need to stick it to these Mfers

You brought this nonsense up before.

The answer is still the same - they're being investigated and sentenced by local and state authorities, as they should be.

The "walkthrough" was a "walkthrough" of federal property under the control of Congress and the Capitol police and an attempt to overthrow a presidential election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D

I don't know.

That "walkthrough" comment made me wonder if he's just winding us all up. :)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D

I don't know.

That "walkthrough" comment made me wonder if he's just winding us all up. :)
what about the whispering voice ?
He will be Gone by June 2022 or before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2021, 05:53:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D

I don't know.

That "walkthrough" comment made me wonder if he's just winding us all up. :)

He has to be a windup. Nobody could be that brainwashed by Fox News and the right wing cult.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:02:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D

I don't know.

That "walkthrough" comment made me wonder if he's just winding us all up. :)
what about the whispering voice ?
He will be Gone by June 2022 or before.

??

Is this the voice in your head?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 06:29:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:02:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D

I don't know.

That "walkthrough" comment made me wonder if he's just winding us all up. :)
what about the whispering voice ?
He will be Gone by June 2022 or before.

??

Is this the voice in your head?
j70 going to the something wrong with you mentally if you don't agree with me and my liberal friends card , couple of things happened since yesterday  , Joe saying Latinos are afraid that if they get vaccinated they will be deported wtf he obviously thinks all Latinos are illegal how racist is this guy .
Police shot a male in Portland yesterday and had to make an announcement that the victim was a white male so that  antifa and blm wouldn't wreck the place and start looting, a very sad state of affairs really.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 06:29:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:02:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D

I don't know.

That "walkthrough" comment made me wonder if he's just winding us all up. :)
what about the whispering voice ?
He will be Gone by June 2022 or before.

??

Is this the voice in your head?
j70 going to the something wrong with you mentally if you don't agree with me and my liberal friends card , couple of things happened since yesterday  , Joe saying Latinos are afraid that if they get vaccinated they will be deported wtf he obviously thinks all Latinos are illegal how racist is this guy .
Police shot a male in Portland yesterday and had to make an announcement that the victim was a white male so that  antifa and blm wouldn't wreck the place and start looting, a very sad state of affairs really.

1. Be a little more specific in your ramblings (for the tenth time). I don't know what the f**k you were on about.

2. Another interpretation, a little more realistic and supported by the facts... Joe is a gaffe machine and mangled what he was trying to say i.e. illegals should be given a bit of slack to get vaccinated without fear of deportation. But you go ahead with the racist interpretation if it makes you feel better.

3. I can't see any reference to what you're claiming about Portland. Plenty of stories about them shooting a guy (described as white by a quoted witness) who came at them with a screwdriver, followed by some minor trouble. I guess I'm not reading the correct sources. Perhaps you could learn to link articles so everyone knows what you're on about?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 25, 2021, 07:13:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 06:29:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:02:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D

I don't know.

That "walkthrough" comment made me wonder if he's just winding us all up. :)
what about the whispering voice ?
He will be Gone by June 2022 or before.

??

Is this the voice in your head?
j70 going to the something wrong with you mentally if you don't agree with me and my liberal friends card , couple of things happened since yesterday  , Joe saying Latinos are afraid that if they get vaccinated they will be deported wtf he obviously thinks all Latinos are illegal how racist is this guy .
Police shot a male in Portland yesterday and had to make an announcement that the victim was a white male so that  antifa and blm wouldn't wreck the place and start looting, a very sad state of affairs really.

1. Be a little more specific in your ramblings (for the tenth time). I don't know what the f**k you were on about.

2. Another interpretation, a little more realistic and supported by the facts... Joe is a gaffe machine and mangled what he was trying to say i.e. illegals should be given a bit of slack to get vaccinated without fear of deportation. But you go ahead with the racist interpretation if it makes you feel better.

3. I can't see any reference to what you're claiming about Portland. Plenty of stories about them shooting a guy (described as white by a quoted witness) who came at them with a screwdriver, followed by some minor trouble. I guess I'm not reading the correct sources. Perhaps you could learn to link articles so everyone knows what you're on about?



Gmac is clearly a bot someone created to make right wingers look stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 07:29:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 06:29:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:02:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D

I don't know.

That "walkthrough" comment made me wonder if he's just winding us all up. :)
what about the whispering voice ?
He will be Gone by June 2022 or before.

??

Is this the voice in your head?
j70 going to the something wrong with you mentally if you don't agree with me and my liberal friends card , couple of things happened since yesterday  , Joe saying Latinos are afraid that if they get vaccinated they will be deported wtf he obviously thinks all Latinos are illegal how racist is this guy .
Police shot a male in Portland yesterday and had to make an announcement that the victim was a white male so that  antifa and blm wouldn't wreck the place and start looting, a very sad state of affairs really.

1. Be a little more specific in your ramblings (for the tenth time). I don't know what the f**k you were on about.

2. Another interpretation, a little more realistic and supported by the facts... Joe is a gaffe machine and mangled what he was trying to say i.e. illegals should be given a bit of slack to get vaccinated without fear of deportation. But you go ahead with the racist interpretation if it makes you feel better.

3. I can't see any reference to what you're claiming about Portland. Plenty of stories about them shooting a guy (described as white by a quoted witness) who came at them with a screwdriver, followed by some minor trouble. I guess I'm not reading the correct sources. Perhaps you could learn to link articles so everyone knows what you're on about?
how long will joe the gaffe machine be his defense? Most gaffes seem to be of a racist nature .
He should be held accountable for what he says like previous presidents .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 07:38:48 PM
Quote from: dec on June 25, 2021, 07:13:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 06:29:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2021, 06:02:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
like shooting fish in a barrel there J70  ;D

I don't know.

That "walkthrough" comment made me wonder if he's just winding us all up. :)
what about the whispering voice ?
He will be Gone by June 2022 or before.

??

Is this the voice in your head?
j70 going to the something wrong with you mentally if you don't agree with me and my liberal friends card , couple of things happened since yesterday  , Joe saying Latinos are afraid that if they get vaccinated they will be deported wtf he obviously thinks all Latinos are illegal how racist is this guy .
Police shot a male in Portland yesterday and had to make an announcement that the victim was a white male so that  antifa and blm wouldn't wreck the place and start looting, a very sad state of affairs really.

1. Be a little more specific in your ramblings (for the tenth time). I don't know what the f**k you were on about.

2. Another interpretation, a little more realistic and supported by the facts... Joe is a gaffe machine and mangled what he was trying to say i.e. illegals should be given a bit of slack to get vaccinated without fear of deportation. But you go ahead with the racist interpretation if it makes you feel better.

3. I can't see any reference to what you're claiming about Portland. Plenty of stories about them shooting a guy (described as white by a quoted witness) who came at them with a screwdriver, followed by some minor trouble. I guess I'm not reading the correct sources. Perhaps you could learn to link articles so everyone knows what you're on about?



Gmac is clearly a bot someone created to make right wingers look stupid.
thanks dec I know the truth hurts little snowflakes like you and j69 .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 25, 2021, 10:42:29 PM
https://www.theonion.com/conservative-man-tearfully-informs-family-critical-race-1847149198

Conservative Man Tearfully Informs Family Critical Race Theory Has Spread To His Liver

DALLAS, TX—Gathering his wife and children close to him as he shared the tragic news, area conservative Dan Gainey, 66, informed his family Tuesday that Critical Race Theory had spread to his liver. "There's no easy way to say this, but I just got the diagnosis that I have Critical Race Theory, and soon my body will be completely ravaged by it," said Gainey of the academic movement focused on studying social and cultural issues through the lens of institutional racism that was reportedly metastasizing within him. "I promise you all I'm going to fight like Hell to lick this thing, but the truth is that it's a pernicious ideology capable of spreading rapidly, so I probably don't have all that much longer. I just pray it doesn't spread to my brain—if you ever hear me rambling incoherently about how the inequalities that spurred the civil rights movements are still with us today, I'm begging you right now to put me out of my misery." At press time, Gainey sought to comfort his crying family with the promise that if they remembered the U.S. was historically the least racist country on Earth, he would always be with them in spirit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 25, 2021, 10:52:23 PM
I notice some posters on this thread barely comment on any other threads which brings me to the conclusion they have zero interests in Gaelic games making me wonder how they ended up on this forum in the first place. Some posters here am Glad they living in America as their political stance is embrassing in this day and age.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 12:00:13 AM
During World War 2 a survey was done in Manchester, where  people were asked do you support the Ariel bombing of German cities, which the people over whelmingly said yes. The same survey was done in London and the people mostly said absolutely no. The reason for this is very simple. London had experienced this terror where as people in Manchester hadn't. So some times you have to experience things in life to learn the way it really is and not how you perceive it to be.

I have witnessed some horrendous acts of violence in America, but no matter how you explain it to people at home even till your blue in the face they still don't get it. All they know is Europeans are racist and the Africans are relentless victims. Which is one of the greatest lies ever told.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: JoG2 on June 26, 2021, 12:33:26 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 12:00:13 AM
During World War 2 a survey was done in Manchester, where  people were asked do you support the Ariel bombing of German cities, which the people over whelmingly said yes. The same survey was done in London and the people mostly said absolutely no. The reason for this is very simple. London had experienced this terror where as people in Manchester hadn't. So some times you have to experience things in life to learn the way it really is and not how you perceive it to be.

I have witnessed some horrendous acts of violence in America, but no matter how you explain it to people at home even till your blue in the face they still don't get it. All they know is Europeans are racist and the Africans are relentless victims. Which is one of the greatest lies ever told.

3 observations. 1, Manchester folk may well be serious about their cleanliness. 2. Manchester had in fact experienced this terror. 3. You'd be fairly racist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 12:40:26 AM
Point number 3 never fails. Either you are in total denial about the astronomical and wildly out of proportion black violence  in the United States as opposed to the other ethnic groups, or you are lying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 26, 2021, 01:54:48 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 26, 2021, 12:33:26 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 12:00:13 AM
During World War 2 a survey was done in Manchester, where  people were asked do you support the Ariel bombing of German cities, which the people over whelmingly said yes. The same survey was done in London and the people mostly said absolutely no. The reason for this is very simple. London had experienced this terror where as people in Manchester hadn't. So some times you have to experience things in life to learn the way it really is and not how you perceive it to be.

I have witnessed some horrendous acts of violence in America, but no matter how you explain it to people at home even till your blue in the face they still don't get it. All they know is Europeans are racist and the Africans are relentless victims. Which is one of the greatest lies ever told.

3 observations. 1, Manchester folk may well be serious about their cleanliness. 2. Manchester had in fact experienced this terror. 3. You'd be fairly racist

;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 26, 2021, 02:23:09 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 12:40:26 AM
Point number 3 never fails. Either you are in total denial about the astronomical and wildly out of proportion black violence  in the United States as opposed to the other ethnic groups, or you are lying.
maybe the Democrats haven't changed at all from the party of slavery only  now their policy is let them all kill each other  .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 03:10:25 AM
Interracial violent crime 2018

Black (13% population) on white (61% population)
547,948 incidents

White on black
59,778 incidents

White people are owed a huge apology. Maybe a thank you for being the only ethnic group that pays more into the system than they took out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 26, 2021, 01:18:10 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 12:40:26 AM
Point number 3 never fails. Either you are in total denial about the astronomical and wildly out of proportion black violence  in the United States as opposed to the other ethnic groups, or you are lying.

Why bother?

They have no clue as to how bad it is in some of these cities

There have been as many people murdered just in Chicago over the past 5 years as were murdered during the 30 + years of the Troubles
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 26, 2021, 05:35:41 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 12:00:13 AM
During World War 2 a survey was done in Manchester, where  people were asked do you support the Ariel bombing of German cities, which the people over whelmingly said yes. The same survey was done in London and the people mostly said absolutely no. The reason for this is very simple. London had experienced this terror where as people in Manchester hadn't. So some times you have to experience things in life to learn the way it really is and not how you perceive it to be.

I have witnessed some horrendous acts of violence in America, but no matter how you explain it to people at home even till your blue in the face they still don't get it. All they know is Europeans are racist and the Africans are relentless victims. Which is one of the greatest lies ever told.

What did she have against the Germans?

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1c/84/26/1c8426660d2541c8c7668acd08c0a841.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 30, 2021, 04:41:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

Haha

Maya Wiley-proponent of defunding the police pays for a private security firm to protect her street and escort residents from a local train station to their multi million dollar homes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/06/07/wiley-wants-to-defund-nypd-while-her-home-protected-by-security/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.
43k swung the election in 3 states would you not want to make sure everything is above board .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 01, 2021, 12:08:28 AM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.

Rank choice isn't identical to Proportional Representation but it's similar

How can they only start counting the mail in ballots now ?  Shouldn't they have been counted right off the bat?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 01, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2021, 12:08:28 AM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.

Rank choice isn't identical to Proportional Representation but it's similar

How can they only start counting the mail in ballots now ?  Shouldn't they have been counted right off the bat?
They have a law that mail-in ballots can't be counted until all are received. Usually doesn't matter but with the increased numbers and (I believe) a later deadline for receiving them, it has worked out badly this time. There are plans to change the law to allow counting as soon as they are received.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 01, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.
43k swung the election in 3 states would you not want to make sure everything is above board .

You would.

And they did.

Every state has multiple safeguards, checks, validations etc. After they were followed and Trump lost the Trumpnuts didn't like the result and started making up stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 21, 2021, 11:53:34 PM
Did you hear about the Texas Democrats who fled the state with a twelve pack of Miller lite and came back with 6 sass of corona.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 12:17:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 21, 2021, 11:53:34 PM
Did you hear about the Texas Democrats who fled the state with a twelve pack of Miller lite and came back with 6 sass of corona.
cases
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 22, 2021, 12:02:42 PM
Quote from: dec on July 01, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.
43k swung the election in 3 states would you not want to make sure everything is above board .

You would.

And they did.

Every state has multiple safeguards, checks, validations etc. After they were followed and Trump lost the Trumpnuts didn't like the result and started making up stuff.

Just seeing this now.

Should have known he would make this idiotic comparison. Unfortunately for the Trump cult, facts and evidence matter in the real world (although they're doing their best to pass laws in some places to ensure that next time they can change the result regardless).

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2021, 12:02:42 PM
Quote from: dec on July 01, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.
43k swung the election in 3 states would you not want to make sure everything is above board .

You would.

And they did.

Every state has multiple safeguards, checks, validations etc. After they were followed and Trump lost the Trumpnuts didn't like the result and started making up stuff.

Just seeing this now.

Should have known he would make this idiotic comparison. Unfortunately for the Trump cult, facts and evidence matter in the real world (although they're doing their best to pass laws in some places to ensure that next time they can change the result regardless).
did you see the townhall on cnn last night ? Quite embarrassing wouldn't you say
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on July 22, 2021, 03:17:00 PM
didn't see the TH, why was it bad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 22, 2021, 03:18:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2021, 12:02:42 PM
Quote from: dec on July 01, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.
43k swung the election in 3 states would you not want to make sure everything is above board .

You would.

And they did.

Every state has multiple safeguards, checks, validations etc. After they were followed and Trump lost the Trumpnuts didn't like the result and started making up stuff.

Just seeing this now.

Should have known he would make this idiotic comparison. Unfortunately for the Trump cult, facts and evidence matter in the real world (although they're doing their best to pass laws in some places to ensure that next time they can change the result regardless).
did you see the townhall on cnn last night ? Quite embarrassing wouldn't you say

No, I didn't see it.

Pray, tell us what horrors did (whoever it was) inflict on the world?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2021, 03:18:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2021, 12:02:42 PM
Quote from: dec on July 01, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.
43k swung the election in 3 states would you not want to make sure everything is above board .

You would.

And they did.

Every state has multiple safeguards, checks, validations etc. After they were followed and Trump lost the Trumpnuts didn't like the result and started making up stuff.

Just seeing this now.

Should have known he would make this idiotic comparison. Unfortunately for the Trump cult, facts and evidence matter in the real world (although they're doing their best to pass laws in some places to ensure that next time they can change the result regardless).
did you see the townhall on cnn last night ? Quite embarrassing wouldn't you say

No, I didn't see it.

Pray, tell us what horrors did (whoever it was) inflict on the world?
just another hour of word salad from joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 22, 2021, 06:50:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2021, 03:18:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2021, 12:02:42 PM
Quote from: dec on July 01, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.
43k swung the election in 3 states would you not want to make sure everything is above board .

You would.

And they did.

Every state has multiple safeguards, checks, validations etc. After they were followed and Trump lost the Trumpnuts didn't like the result and started making up stuff.

Just seeing this now.

Should have known he would make this idiotic comparison. Unfortunately for the Trump cult, facts and evidence matter in the real world (although they're doing their best to pass laws in some places to ensure that next time they can change the result regardless).
did you see the townhall on cnn last night ? Quite embarrassing wouldn't you say

No, I didn't see it.

Pray, tell us what horrors did (whoever it was) inflict on the world?
just another hour of word salad from joe

Nothing specific?

Why would gaffes from Biden embarrass me?

Everyone knew what they were getting with Biden. A pragmatic centrist who now and again butchers what he's trying to say. Not ideal by any stretch, but I'll take that every day of the week over the deranged geriatric baby and his idol-worshiping rabble following who now occupy the husk of a once respectable party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 22, 2021, 06:51:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 06:40:02 PMjust another hour of word salad from joe

something you know all about
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 22, 2021, 08:05:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2021, 03:18:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2021, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2021, 12:02:42 PM
Quote from: dec on July 01, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 30, 2021, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
135k incorrect votes counted in New York mayors race wtf but anyone who questions anything about presidential election is a conspiracy theorist or a right wing nut job isn't that how it goes .

There is a difference.

There is evidence that there was a mistake in the figures that were published for the NYC mayoral election. They know what the problem was and have communicated what the problem was.

In the presidential election Republicans made up stuff because they didn't like the result.
43k swung the election in 3 states would you not want to make sure everything is above board .

You would.

And they did.

Every state has multiple safeguards, checks, validations etc. After they were followed and Trump lost the Trumpnuts didn't like the result and started making up stuff.

Just seeing this now.

Should have known he would make this idiotic comparison. Unfortunately for the Trump cult, facts and evidence matter in the real world (although they're doing their best to pass laws in some places to ensure that next time they can change the result regardless).
did you see the townhall on cnn last night ? Quite embarrassing wouldn't you say

No, I didn't see it.

Pray, tell us what horrors did (whoever it was) inflict on the world?
just another hour of word salad from joe

Thanks for watching it for us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2021, 04:52:24 AM
Today in the dark world of the deranged conservatives:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/226952079_1198518763986495_5803459569657009227_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=sKCT3gfx6Q0AX-uwd9_&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=cbdcbcd5ffd95946d34fd4b814dd19ab&oe=610488E7)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2021, 04:53:12 AM
The "patriotic" conservatives have now taking to cheering for the opposition in every international sporting contest in which America is represented.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2021, 07:10:17 PM
I wouldn't mind the rat-licking conservatives dropping dead from Covid if they didn't infect innocent people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on

Are you going to provide a source for this latest "claim"?

I'm interested in hearing about it, especially seeing as the scientist in question died a couple of years ago.

A source for your immigration claim would be handy too.

And BTW, not that I really give a bollocks (so fire away if you really think it helps your "argument"), but I'm not sure why you're trying to mock me for apparently being a paranoid zealot when it comes to Covid. I've expressed no such opinions. And as it happens, I've been back in the office for a year now, and very frequently take the NY subways and buses. Pointing out the complete moral bankruptcy, intellectual dishonesty and outright deceit on the right when it comes to covid is not extremism. It's factualism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 02:41:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on

Are you going to provide a source for this latest "claim"?

I'm interested in hearing about it, especially seeing as the scientist in question died a couple of years ago.

A source for your immigration claim would be handy too.

And BTW, not that I really give a bollocks (so fire away if you really think it helps your "argument"), but I'm not sure why you're trying to mock me for apparently being a paranoid zealot when it comes to Covid. I've expressed no such opinions. And as it happens, I've been back in the office for a year now, and very frequently take the NY subways and buses. Pointing out the complete moral bankruptcy, intellectual dishonesty and outright deceit on the right when it comes to covid is not extremism. It's factualism.
he said they were not reliable and could find any kind of virus in anyone at any level , he also said before he died and before this man got famous that fauci was a complete bullshitter and was a liar
You talk about a church with a few hundred people going there and say these people and their like are a huge problem but ignore a catastrophe that's going on at the southern border where immigrants positive for covid are being shipped around the country.
Check out rio grande valley in Texas and la county do you think many land there ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2021, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 02:41:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on

Are you going to provide a source for this latest "claim"?

I'm interested in hearing about it, especially seeing as the scientist in question died a couple of years ago.

A source for your immigration claim would be handy too.

And BTW, not that I really give a bollocks (so fire away if you really think it helps your "argument"), but I'm not sure why you're trying to mock me for apparently being a paranoid zealot when it comes to Covid. I've expressed no such opinions. And as it happens, I've been back in the office for a year now, and very frequently take the NY subways and buses. Pointing out the complete moral bankruptcy, intellectual dishonesty and outright deceit on the right when it comes to covid is not extremism. It's factualism.
he said they were not reliable and could find any kind of virus in anyone at any level , he also said before he died and before this man got famous that fauci was a complete bullshitter and was a liar
You talk about a church with a few hundred people going there and say these people and their like are a huge problem but ignore a catastrophe that's going on at the southern border where immigrants positive for covid are being shipped around the country.
Check out rio grande valley in Texas and la county do you think many land there ?

I call bullshit on your claims unless you, for once in your life, produce some sources for your information. Its not hard. It took me all of 30 seconds on Google to find out that Kary Mullis died in 2019 and so could not have "said it didn't work properly for covid". Now you're piling more shite on your mountain of bullshit with your claims that PCR tests can't "find any kind of virus in anyone at any level". Either put the evidence up, or stop spreading misinformation about something you clearly know f**k all about.

The church is emblematic of what is going on across the US right wing. They're away in la la land when it comes to Covid and the vaccines, when it comes to the election, and when it comes to the cult of personality that is now their defining characteristic and litmus test for membership.

And back to the sources - please provide some for your claims on the border.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 02:41:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on

Are you going to provide a source for this latest "claim"?

I'm interested in hearing about it, especially seeing as the scientist in question died a couple of years ago.

A source for your immigration claim would be handy too.

And BTW, not that I really give a bollocks (so fire away if you really think it helps your "argument"), but I'm not sure why you're trying to mock me for apparently being a paranoid zealot when it comes to Covid. I've expressed no such opinions. And as it happens, I've been back in the office for a year now, and very frequently take the NY subways and buses. Pointing out the complete moral bankruptcy, intellectual dishonesty and outright deceit on the right when it comes to covid is not extremism. It's factualism.
he said they were not reliable and could find any kind of virus in anyone at any level , he also said before he died and before this man got famous that fauci was a complete bullshitter and was a liar
You talk about a church with a few hundred people going there and say these people and their like are a huge problem but ignore a catastrophe that's going on at the southern border where immigrants positive for covid are being shipped around the country.
Check out rio grande valley in Texas and la county do you think many land there ?

I call bullshit on your claims unless you, for once in your life, produce some sources for your information. Its not hard. It took me all of 30 seconds on Google to find out that Kary Mullis died in 2019 and so could not have "said it didn't work properly for covid". Now you're piling more shite on your mountain of bullshit with your claims that PCR tests can't "find any kind of virus in anyone at any level". Either put the evidence up, or stop spreading misinformation about something you clearly know f**k all about.

The church is emblematic of what is going on across the US right wing. They're away in la la land when it comes to Covid and the vaccines, when it comes to the election, and when it comes to the cult of personality that is now their defining characteristic and litmus test for membership.

And back to the sources - please provide some for your claims on the border.
your right this church is way more dangerous than the border situation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2021, 07:06:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 02:41:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on

Are you going to provide a source for this latest "claim"?

I'm interested in hearing about it, especially seeing as the scientist in question died a couple of years ago.

A source for your immigration claim would be handy too.

And BTW, not that I really give a bollocks (so fire away if you really think it helps your "argument"), but I'm not sure why you're trying to mock me for apparently being a paranoid zealot when it comes to Covid. I've expressed no such opinions. And as it happens, I've been back in the office for a year now, and very frequently take the NY subways and buses. Pointing out the complete moral bankruptcy, intellectual dishonesty and outright deceit on the right when it comes to covid is not extremism. It's factualism.
he said they were not reliable and could find any kind of virus in anyone at any level , he also said before he died and before this man got famous that fauci was a complete bullshitter and was a liar
You talk about a church with a few hundred people going there and say these people and their like are a huge problem but ignore a catastrophe that's going on at the southern border where immigrants positive for covid are being shipped around the country.
Check out rio grande valley in Texas and la county do you think many land there ?

I call bullshit on your claims unless you, for once in your life, produce some sources for your information. Its not hard. It took me all of 30 seconds on Google to find out that Kary Mullis died in 2019 and so could not have "said it didn't work properly for covid". Now you're piling more shite on your mountain of bullshit with your claims that PCR tests can't "find any kind of virus in anyone at any level". Either put the evidence up, or stop spreading misinformation about something you clearly know f**k all about.

The church is emblematic of what is going on across the US right wing. They're away in la la land when it comes to Covid and the vaccines, when it comes to the election, and when it comes to the cult of personality that is now their defining characteristic and litmus test for membership.

And back to the sources - please provide some for your claims on the border.
your right this church is way more dangerous than the border situation.

That's it?

1. I did not say that. The border could be a complete mess (still waiting on links to back up your claims though) at the same time that the conservative movement and the GOP has degenerated into an irrational, authoritarian personality cult.

2. I'll take your ignoring of the other parts as a tacit admission that you were talking through your hole on covid and PCR testing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 07:06:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 02:41:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on

Are you going to provide a source for this latest "claim"?

I'm interested in hearing about it, especially seeing as the scientist in question died a couple of years ago.

A source for your immigration claim would be handy too.

And BTW, not that I really give a bollocks (so fire away if you really think it helps your "argument"), but I'm not sure why you're trying to mock me for apparently being a paranoid zealot when it comes to Covid. I've expressed no such opinions. And as it happens, I've been back in the office for a year now, and very frequently take the NY subways and buses. Pointing out the complete moral bankruptcy, intellectual dishonesty and outright deceit on the right when it comes to covid is not extremism. It's factualism.
he said they were not reliable and could find any kind of virus in anyone at any level , he also said before he died and before this man got famous that fauci was a complete bullshitter and was a liar
You talk about a church with a few hundred people going there and say these people and their like are a huge problem but ignore a catastrophe that's going on at the southern border where immigrants positive for covid are being shipped around the country.
Check out rio grande valley in Texas and la county do you think many land there ?

I call bullshit on your claims unless you, for once in your life, produce some sources for your information. Its not hard. It took me all of 30 seconds on Google to find out that Kary Mullis died in 2019 and so could not have "said it didn't work properly for covid". Now you're piling more shite on your mountain of bullshit with your claims that PCR tests can't "find any kind of virus in anyone at any level". Either put the evidence up, or stop spreading misinformation about something you clearly know f**k all about.

The church is emblematic of what is going on across the US right wing. They're away in la la land when it comes to Covid and the vaccines, when it comes to the election, and when it comes to the cult of personality that is now their defining characteristic and litmus test for membership.

And back to the sources - please provide some for your claims on the border.
your right this church is way more dangerous than the border situation.

That's it?

1. I did not say that. The border could be a complete mess (still waiting on links to back up your claims though) at the same time that the conservative movement and the GOP has degenerated into an irrational, authoritarian personality cult.

2. I'll take your ignoring of the other parts as a tacit admission that you were talking through your hole on covid and PCR testing.
I don't bother with extremists like you anymore , waste of my time .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 28, 2021, 11:16:44 PM
yeah - you sure are ignoring him lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on July 28, 2021, 11:39:11 PM
What do you lads get out of this? Does it make you happy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 29, 2021, 07:58:17 AM
why do you care? does it make you happy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 29, 2021, 12:09:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 28, 2021, 11:39:11 PM
What do you lads get out of this? Does it make you happy?

It doesn't make me unhappy! :)

More seriously, do you think people spreading utter nonsense, including on something as important as covid, should be allowed to unchallenged, even if its just in our tiny corner of the internet? You seem to think otherwise on the covid thread.

We have a decent enough discussion board here, for the most part. Standard of debate and discussion is vital to that, which means lies and bullshit need to be called out.

Sensible people can differ on economics or moral or religious issues or whatever. There has to be a line though when it comes to spreading patently false misinformation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: StPatsAbu on August 03, 2021, 12:06:37 AM
Afghanistan going well for the Yanks and Brits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 04, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Joe Biden's cdc now tell people what to do with their private property?
Has cuomo been arrested yet for his years of crimes against women and the elderly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 05, 2021, 09:55:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 04, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Joe Biden's cdc now tell people what to do with their private property?
Has cuomo been arrested yet for his years of crimes against women and the elderly

1. The original eviction moratorium happened under Trump. Were you crying about it then? (we all know the answer to that). Note: I haven't commented on the rule/order either way; just highlighting more bullshit from you.

2. Cuomo is done. He's not surviving this. Unlike the right, the Dems have at least SOME expectations of behaviour from their representatives. You keep on pointing to Cuomo while never uttering a word in opposition to your Dear Orange Leader and your fellow cultists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on August 06, 2021, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 04, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Joe Biden's cdc now tell people what to do with their private property?

There been disease control measures in the US since before Typhoid Mary, Tyrone's gift to medical science. Concern for public health is the mark of a civilised society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 01:53:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2021, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 04, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Joe Biden's cdc now tell people what to do with their private property?

There been disease control measures in the US since before Typhoid Mary, Tyrone's gift to medical science. Concern for public health is the mark of a civilised society.
100k fine or a year in jail or 250k fine 5 years in jail they propose
How long before they start telling people this house is too big for you we are moving in another family who needs to be housed . There are 8 million job opportunities in the us so there is no excuse for not trying to pay rent . Haven't heard any stories about anyone being denied healthcare in the last 18 months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2021, 11:30:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 01:53:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2021, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 04, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Joe Biden's cdc now tell people what to do with their private property?

There been disease control measures in the US since before Typhoid Mary, Tyrone's gift to medical science. Concern for public health is the mark of a civilised society.
100k fine or a year in jail or 250k fine 5 years in jail they propose
How long before they start telling people this house is too big for you we are moving in another family who needs to be housed . There are 8 million job opportunities in the us so there is no excuse for not trying to pay rent . Haven't heard any stories about anyone being denied healthcare in the last 18 months.

Can't you just highlight the legitimate concerns for landlords about this issue without posting nonsensical, hysterical bullshit?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 02:36:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2021, 11:30:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 01:53:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2021, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 04, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Joe Biden's cdc now tell people what to do with their private property?

There been disease control measures in the US since before Typhoid Mary, Tyrone's gift to medical science. Concern for public health is the mark of a civilised society.
100k fine or a year in jail or 250k fine 5 years in jail they propose
How long before they start telling people this house is too big for you we are moving in another family who needs to be housed . There are 8 million job opportunities in the us so there is no excuse for not trying to pay rent . Haven't heard any stories about anyone being denied healthcare in the last 18 months.

Can't you just highlight the legitimate concerns for landlords about this issue without posting nonsensical, hysterical bullshit?
who threatens landlords with jail for evicting people who haven't paid rent in 18 months?
It's unconstitutional Joe knows it but they don't give a f?ck.
If you don't have rights over your property what rights have you ? 
Are counties still looking for property taxes ?  a very slippery slope
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2021, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 02:36:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2021, 11:30:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 01:53:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2021, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 04, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Joe Biden's cdc now tell people what to do with their private property?

There been disease control measures in the US since before Typhoid Mary, Tyrone's gift to medical science. Concern for public health is the mark of a civilised society.
100k fine or a year in jail or 250k fine 5 years in jail they propose
How long before they start telling people this house is too big for you we are moving in another family who needs to be housed . There are 8 million job opportunities in the us so there is no excuse for not trying to pay rent . Haven't heard any stories about anyone being denied healthcare in the last 18 months.

Can't you just highlight the legitimate concerns for landlords about this issue without posting nonsensical, hysterical bullshit?
who threatens landlords with jail for evicting people who haven't paid rent in 18 months?
It's unconstitutional Joe knows it but they don't give a f?ck.
If you don't have rights over your property what rights have you ? 
Are counties still looking for property taxes ?  a very slippery slope

It's the same rules (including penalties) Trump brought in last year. Not a peep from you then.

Yes, Biden has admitted it's a temporary fix of questionable constitutionality, but says he basically wants to buy time to help those in need because Congress refused to address it after he let the previous one run out. He clearly didn't want to do it.

Out of interest, how many landlords, whether small or corporations, have been prosecuted and/or jailed at this point?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 04:32:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2021, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 02:36:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2021, 11:30:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 01:53:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2021, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 04, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Joe Biden's cdc now tell people what to do with their private property?

There been disease control measures in the US since before Typhoid Mary, Tyrone's gift to medical science. Concern for public health is the mark of a civilised society.
100k fine or a year in jail or 250k fine 5 years in jail they propose
How long before they start telling people this house is too big for you we are moving in another family who needs to be housed . There are 8 million job opportunities in the us so there is no excuse for not trying to pay rent . Haven't heard any stories about anyone being denied healthcare in the last 18 months.

Can't you just highlight the legitimate concerns for landlords about this issue without posting nonsensical, hysterical bullshit?
who threatens landlords with jail for evicting people who haven't paid rent in 18 months?
It's unconstitutional Joe knows it but they don't give a f?ck.
If you don't have rights over your property what rights have you ? 
Are counties still looking for property taxes ?  a very slippery slope

It's the same rules (including penalties) Trump brought in last year. Not a peep from you then.

Yes, Biden has admitted it's a temporary fix of questionable constitutionality, but says he basically wants to buy time to help those in need because Congress refused to address it after he let the previous one run out. He clearly didn't want to do it.

Out of interest, how many landlords, whether small or corporations, have been prosecuted and/or jailed at this point?
trump made a balls of a lot of things throughout last year trying to appease people who hate him. I haven't heard about anyone being locked up but it's quite a threat to face into litigation with the government wouldn't you think and a deterrent .

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 06, 2021, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 04:32:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2021, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 02:36:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2021, 11:30:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 01:53:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2021, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 04, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Joe Biden's cdc now tell people what to do with their private property?

There been disease control measures in the US since before Typhoid Mary, Tyrone's gift to medical science. Concern for public health is the mark of a civilised society.
100k fine or a year in jail or 250k fine 5 years in jail they propose
How long before they start telling people this house is too big for you we are moving in another family who needs to be housed . There are 8 million job opportunities in the us so there is no excuse for not trying to pay rent . Haven't heard any stories about anyone being denied healthcare in the last 18 months.

Can't you just highlight the legitimate concerns for landlords about this issue without posting nonsensical, hysterical bullshit?
who threatens landlords with jail for evicting people who haven't paid rent in 18 months?
It's unconstitutional Joe knows it but they don't give a f?ck.
If you don't have rights over your property what rights have you ? 
Are counties still looking for property taxes ?  a very slippery slope

It's the same rules (including penalties) Trump brought in last year. Not a peep from you then.

Yes, Biden has admitted it's a temporary fix of questionable constitutionality, but says he basically wants to buy time to help those in need because Congress refused to address it after he let the previous one run out. He clearly didn't want to do it.

Out of interest, how many landlords, whether small or corporations, have been prosecuted and/or jailed at this point?
trump made a balls of a lot of things throughout last year trying to appease people who hate him. I haven't heard about anyone being locked up but it's quite a threat to face into litigation with the government wouldn't you think and a deterrent .

Trump did the right thing in this case under the circumstances. You can't have people bring turfed out on the street all over the place in a pandemic with massive job losses because they suddenly can't pay their rent through no fault of their own.

And yes, such maximum sentences are threatening, but that's the purpose of deterrence. It's going to be struck down anyway before it expires, so hopefully the states finally get their acts together with the rental aid for the sake of both the tenants and landlords. And the renters will still owe the back-rent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.
you don't believe in god am I right am I right?
Pray to joe and Kamala
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on August 06, 2021, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 02:41:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on

Are you going to provide a source for this latest "claim"?

I'm interested in hearing about it, especially seeing as the scientist in question died a couple of years ago.

A source for your immigration claim would be handy too.

And BTW, not that I really give a bollocks (so fire away if you really think it helps your "argument"), but I'm not sure why you're trying to mock me for apparently being a paranoid zealot when it comes to Covid. I've expressed no such opinions. And as it happens, I've been back in the office for a year now, and very frequently take the NY subways and buses. Pointing out the complete moral bankruptcy, intellectual dishonesty and outright deceit on the right when it comes to covid is not extremism. It's factualism.
he said they were not reliable and could find any kind of virus in anyone at any level , he also said before he died and before this man got famous that fauci was a complete bullshitter and was a liar
You talk about a church with a few hundred people going there and say these people and their like are a huge problem but ignore a catastrophe that's going on at the southern border where immigrants positive for covid are being shipped around the country.
Check out rio grande valley in Texas and la county do you think many land there ?

I call bullshit on your claims unless you, for once in your life, produce some sources for your information. Its not hard. It took me all of 30 seconds on Google to find out that Kary Mullis died in 2019 and so could not have "said it didn't work properly for covid". Now you're piling more shite on your mountain of bullshit with your claims that PCR tests can't "find any kind of virus in anyone at any level". Either put the evidence up, or stop spreading misinformation about something you clearly know f**k all about.


So for the umpteenth time, it is proven that Gmac is a liar.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 07, 2021, 12:04:20 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 06, 2021, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 02:41:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on

Are you going to provide a source for this latest "claim"?

I'm interested in hearing about it, especially seeing as the scientist in question died a couple of years ago.

A source for your immigration claim would be handy too.

And BTW, not that I really give a bollocks (so fire away if you really think it helps your "argument"), but I'm not sure why you're trying to mock me for apparently being a paranoid zealot when it comes to Covid. I've expressed no such opinions. And as it happens, I've been back in the office for a year now, and very frequently take the NY subways and buses. Pointing out the complete moral bankruptcy, intellectual dishonesty and outright deceit on the right when it comes to covid is not extremism. It's factualism.
he said they were not reliable and could find any kind of virus in anyone at any level , he also said before he died and before this man got famous that fauci was a complete bullshitter and was a liar
You talk about a church with a few hundred people going there and say these people and their like are a huge problem but ignore a catastrophe that's going on at the southern border where immigrants positive for covid are being shipped around the country.
Check out rio grande valley in Texas and la county do you think many land there ?

I call bullshit on your claims unless you, for once in your life, produce some sources for your information. Its not hard. It took me all of 30 seconds on Google to find out that Kary Mullis died in 2019 and so could not have "said it didn't work properly for covid". Now you're piling more shite on your mountain of bullshit with your claims that PCR tests can't "find any kind of virus in anyone at any level". Either put the evidence up, or stop spreading misinformation about something you clearly know f**k all about.


So for the umpteenth time, it is proven that Gmac is a liar.
fake news
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 07, 2021, 03:44:37 AM
Another Democrat sex offender arrested today in Arizona , making a habit of it , a basket of deplorables
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 07, 2021, 03:39:21 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 06, 2021, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 02:41:39 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 28, 2021, 12:28:57 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 27, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
How long until we hear about THIS fuckwit getting seriously ill and his "church" having an outbreak among his congregation?

No doubt his stance (assuming its real - wouldn't surprise me, to be honest, if he HAS been vaccinated) is mostly about donations and getting fame on Fox News and the like.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/tennessee-pastor-greg-locke-masks/)

Evangelical pastor demands churchgoers ditch their masks: 'Don't believe this delta variant nonsense'

Since the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of covid and 97 percent of covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

The vaccine rollout in Tennessee made national headlines after the controversial firing of the state's top immunization official, Michelle Fiscus, on July 12. Fiscus's firing was the casualty of the Tennessee Department of Health's campaign to encourage teenagers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. The effort attracted ire from Republican state lawmakers.

In an interview with WTVF on Monday, Fiscus said Tenn. Gov. Bill Lee (R) consistently resisted the state's promotion of the vaccine.

"I feel like the [health] department was gagged," she said.

Locke's evangelical church in Mt. Juliet, Tenn., about 20 miles east of downtown Nashville, has grown during the pandemic, CNN reported. The pastor's controversial commentary on covid and the 2020 presidential election has attracted far-right churchgoers.

During a sermon last month, Locke called President Biden a fraud and "a sex trafficking, demon-possessed mongrel," a reference to QAnon, an extremist ideology based on false claims.

He has also falsely claimed that the pandemic is "fake," that the death count is "manipulated" and that the vaccine is a "dangerous scam."

And the pastor has preached misinformation about the vaccine, including falsely claiming that it's made of "aborted fetal tissue."

During a sermon in May, Locke told churchgoers that he wasn't getting the vaccine and would refuse to promote it.

"I discourage everybody under this tent to get it," he said, according to CNN.

Locke has also openly defied the state's emergency mandates. In July 2020, he posted on Facebook that the church was remaining open and that people did not have to wear masks or social distance.

"I don't care if they send the military, they roll up in there with tanks ... ladies and gentleman, we are staying open," he said, according to Newsweek. "We are packed to capacity. You ain't gotta wear a mask."

Strutting back and forth on a stage beneath a sprawling red-and-white striped circus tent on Sunday, Locke launched into yet another impassioned monologue. This time, he warned churchgoers to not wear masks and railed against the possibility of more shutdowns.


"They will be serving Frostys in hell before we shut this place down, just because a buck wild, demon-possessed government tells us to," Locke said, referencing the frozen dessert from Wendy's.

"Don't believe this delta variant nonsense," he continued. "Stop it!"

He advised parishioners who are looking for services with social distancing "don't come to this one" and chastised other churches for following public health advisories and abstaining from certain rituals as cases rise.

Tennessee resumes most vaccine outreach to minors paused after GOP backlash

"A bunch of pastors talking about how much they want to see people heal, and they're afraid to baptize people because of a delta variant — I'm sick of it," Locke said. "I ain't playing these stupid games."

Toward the end of his rant, Locke made one final warning.

"I'm going to be a problem moving forward," he said. "I'm not giving in to this mess."
but your fine with illegal immigrants walking straight through the southern border from all sorts of countries who could be carrying covid or tb or a multiple of sicknesses with them , selective outrage as usual and the other clown hoping they die such a nice guy

Where have I said I'm fine with illegal immigrants walking in uncontrolled?

No comment on the actual article and the general right wing idiocy which is going to drop us right back into masking and maybe even shutdowns?

Did you figure out yet where you heard about the supposed bogus PCR test?
50k plus have been released into the country and 13%!have shown up to first immigration hearing. The guy who invented the pcr test said it didn't work properly for covid but you know better than him , keep on showering with your mask on

Are you going to provide a source for this latest "claim"?

I'm interested in hearing about it, especially seeing as the scientist in question died a couple of years ago.

A source for your immigration claim would be handy too.

And BTW, not that I really give a bollocks (so fire away if you really think it helps your "argument"), but I'm not sure why you're trying to mock me for apparently being a paranoid zealot when it comes to Covid. I've expressed no such opinions. And as it happens, I've been back in the office for a year now, and very frequently take the NY subways and buses. Pointing out the complete moral bankruptcy, intellectual dishonesty and outright deceit on the right when it comes to covid is not extremism. It's factualism.
he said they were not reliable and could find any kind of virus in anyone at any level , he also said before he died and before this man got famous that fauci was a complete bullshitter and was a liar
You talk about a church with a few hundred people going there and say these people and their like are a huge problem but ignore a catastrophe that's going on at the southern border where immigrants positive for covid are being shipped around the country.
Check out rio grande valley in Texas and la county do you think many land there ?

I call bullshit on your claims unless you, for once in your life, produce some sources for your information. Its not hard. It took me all of 30 seconds on Google to find out that Kary Mullis died in 2019 and so could not have "said it didn't work properly for covid". Now you're piling more shite on your mountain of bullshit with your claims that PCR tests can't "find any kind of virus in anyone at any level". Either put the evidence up, or stop spreading misinformation about something you clearly know f**k all about.


So for the umpteenth time, it is proven that Gmac is a liar.
A liar in a loop.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on August 07, 2021, 06:04:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.
you don't believe in god am I right am I right?
Pray to joe and Kamala

That reply should be in the WTF thread.
Perhaps you would like explain why a meningitis vaccine made sense and a Covid one does not?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 07, 2021, 10:14:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 07, 2021, 06:04:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.
you don't believe in god am I right am I right?
Pray to joe and Kamala

That reply should be in the WTF thread.
Perhaps you would like explain why a meningitis vaccine made sense and a Covid one does not?
I never mentioned vaccines ,  The poster doesn't believe in god so I'm questioning why does he say god help us  ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 07, 2021, 10:51:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 07, 2021, 06:04:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.
you don't believe in god am I right am I right?
Pray to joe and Kamala

That reply should be in the WTF thread.
Perhaps you would like explain why a meningitis vaccine made sense and a Covid one does not?

Something something PCR something Biden is senile something something  liberalism mental disorder something something.

Should about cover it. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 07, 2021, 10:57:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.

Is Texas A&M still requiring the meningitis and all the other vaccines?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 09, 2021, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 07, 2021, 10:51:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 07, 2021, 06:04:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.
you don't believe in god am I right am I right?
Pray to joe and Kamala

That reply should be in the WTF thread.
Perhaps you would like explain why a meningitis vaccine made sense and a Covid one does not?

Something something PCR something Biden is senile something something  liberalism mental disorder something something.

Should about cover it. ;D
obama with a big birthday bash Saturday night inside a tent and not a mask in sight.
Heard a pundit on cnn saying not to worry about this as it's a sophisticated crowd and all are vaccinated she also said to look at sturgis as a more likely super spreader event .
There's a super spreader event going on the southern border every day but no comment on that . Sad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2021, 01:18:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 07, 2021, 10:57:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.

Is Texas A&M still requiring the meningitis and all the other vaccines?

Yes for Meningitis, although they allow exemptions: https://admissions.tamu.edu/meningitis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2021, 03:08:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 09, 2021, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 07, 2021, 10:51:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 07, 2021, 06:04:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 06, 2021, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.
you don't believe in god am I right am I right?
Pray to joe and Kamala

That reply should be in the WTF thread.
Perhaps you would like explain why a meningitis vaccine made sense and a Covid one does not?

Something something PCR something Biden is senile something something  liberalism mental disorder something something.

Should about cover it. ;D
obama with a big birthday bash Saturday night inside a tent and not a mask in sight.
Heard a pundit on cnn saying not to worry about this as it's a sophisticated crowd and all are vaccinated she also said to look at sturgis as a more likely super spreader event .
There's a super spreader event going on the southern border every day but no comment on that . Sad

Go ahead and post some links/evidence that illegal immigrants and asylum seekers are having a significant impact on covid spread if you really want to discuss it.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2021, 03:09:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2021, 01:18:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 07, 2021, 10:57:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Fun fact: Texas A&M university, for years, mandated that anyone attending had to have a meningitis vaccine. This was uncontroversial. Nobody batted an eyelid. It never made the news. People just complied because it was the common sense thing to do.

But now that there's a vaccine for Covid, which is much more transmissible than meningitis, they're not requiring it. It's "voluntary."

This is what happens when conservatives politicize every aspect of people's lives. Everything has to be framed in the culture wars, even if it's going to get people killed, and people like the administrators at TAMU feel the need to capitulate to the terror tactics of the conservatives.

God help us all.

Is Texas A&M still requiring the meningitis and all the other vaccines?

Yes for Meningitis, although they allow exemptions: https://admissions.tamu.edu/meningitis

So completely political.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 04:51:03 AM
Over 70 people shot again in Chicago this weekend 10 dead including a 29 year old female cop
The mayor is a disaster and should be removed ASAP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 10, 2021, 05:07:31 PM
Cuomo resigns

Effective in 14 days
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 10, 2021, 05:26:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 04:51:03 AM
Over 70 people shot again in Chicago this weekend 10 dead including a 29 year old female cop
The mayor is a disaster and should be removed ASAP

Don't know why anyone would want that job

You saw what the leftists attempted to do to the cop involved in the shooting of the armed 13 year old (the one who dropped a gun literally milliseconds before he spun around).

These cops have split second life and death decisions to make every time they go on duty and all they get is abuse from the left.



"Senator Dick Durbin
@SenatorDurbin
Far too many Black and Brown men and women have lost their lives to brutal acts of racial injustice. All the evidence shows that we are dealing with a system of justice that isn't being applied equally—and we need to change that."


I thought it was interesting that the people who shot the female officer on Saturday night were apprehended by bystanders
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2021, 05:46:02 PM
Quote from: dec on August 10, 2021, 05:07:31 PM
Cuomo resigns

Effective in 14 days

Writing was on the wall.

He'd no choice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2021, 06:04:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2021, 05:26:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 04:51:03 AM
Over 70 people shot again in Chicago this weekend 10 dead including a 29 year old female cop
The mayor is a disaster and should be removed ASAP

Don't know why anyone would want that job

You saw what the leftists attempted to do to the cop involved in the shooting of the armed 13 year old (the one who dropped a gun literally milliseconds before he spun around).

These cops have split second life and death decisions to make every time they go on duty and all they get is abuse from the left.



"Senator Dick Durbin
@SenatorDurbin
Far too many Black and Brown men and women have lost their lives to brutal acts of racial injustice. All the evidence shows that we are dealing with a system of justice that isn't being applied equally—and we need to change that."


I thought it was interesting that the people who shot the female officer on Saturday night were apprehended by bystanders

The right can throw plenty of abuse at cops when it suits them. See the recent Capitol police testimony in front of Congress.

That aside, I think there would be a lot more sympathy on the left for cops if they didn't retreat behind the blue wall of silence whenever someone fucked up (the abrasive, abusive, bullying thugs speaking on behalf of their unions don't help their cause either).

Let's face it, if mobile phones were not yet invented, none of the backlash against the cops would ever have happened. The few cops to have been held accountable would still be in uniform. Accountability would be a complete non-issue.

And I'm speaking as someone who would have a lot of sympathy for rank and file cops. I know a few. I've worked with quite a few. They have a job which can be very difficult, where, as you say, a split second decision or mistake can cost someone their life.

But I have to be accountable in my job. So should they.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 10, 2021, 06:22:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2021, 06:04:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2021, 05:26:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 04:51:03 AM
Over 70 people shot again in Chicago this weekend 10 dead including a 29 year old female cop
The mayor is a disaster and should be removed ASAP

Don't know why anyone would want that job

You saw what the leftists attempted to do to the cop involved in the shooting of the armed 13 year old (the one who dropped a gun literally milliseconds before he spun around).

These cops have split second life and death decisions to make every time they go on duty and all they get is abuse from the left.



"Senator Dick Durbin
@SenatorDurbin
Far too many Black and Brown men and women have lost their lives to brutal acts of racial injustice. All the evidence shows that we are dealing with a system of justice that isn't being applied equally—and we need to change that."


I thought it was interesting that the people who shot the female officer on Saturday night were apprehended by bystanders

The right can throw plenty of abuse at cops when it suits them. See the recent Capitol police testimony in front of Congress.

That aside, I think there would be a lot more sympathy on the left for cops if they didn't retreat behind the blue wall of silence whenever someone fucked up (the abrasive, abusive, bullying thugs speaking on behalf of their unions don't help their cause either).

Let's face it, if mobile phones were not yet invented, none of the backlash against the cops would ever have happened. The few cops to have been held accountable would still be in uniform. Accountability would be a complete non-issue.

And I'm speaking as someone who would have a lot of sympathy for rank and file cops. I know a few. I've worked with quite a few. They have a job which can be very difficult, where, as you say, a split second decision or mistake can cost someone their life.

But I have to be accountable in my job. So should they.

Agree  with all of that but in a city bordering on 800 murders over the past 12 months, for the Senior Senator to fire gasoline on an already tense situation to score political points is unconscionable.

Maybe if his wife was out conducting traffic stops in a virtual war zone he might had adopted a different approach. ( But of course she's a lobbyist)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2021, 06:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2021, 06:22:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2021, 06:04:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2021, 05:26:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 04:51:03 AM
Over 70 people shot again in Chicago this weekend 10 dead including a 29 year old female cop
The mayor is a disaster and should be removed ASAP

Don't know why anyone would want that job

You saw what the leftists attempted to do to the cop involved in the shooting of the armed 13 year old (the one who dropped a gun literally milliseconds before he spun around).

These cops have split second life and death decisions to make every time they go on duty and all they get is abuse from the left.



"Senator Dick Durbin
@SenatorDurbin
Far too many Black and Brown men and women have lost their lives to brutal acts of racial injustice. All the evidence shows that we are dealing with a system of justice that isn't being applied equally—and we need to change that."


I thought it was interesting that the people who shot the female officer on Saturday night were apprehended by bystanders

The right can throw plenty of abuse at cops when it suits them. See the recent Capitol police testimony in front of Congress.

That aside, I think there would be a lot more sympathy on the left for cops if they didn't retreat behind the blue wall of silence whenever someone fucked up (the abrasive, abusive, bullying thugs speaking on behalf of their unions don't help their cause either).

Let's face it, if mobile phones were not yet invented, none of the backlash against the cops would ever have happened. The few cops to have been held accountable would still be in uniform. Accountability would be a complete non-issue.

And I'm speaking as someone who would have a lot of sympathy for rank and file cops. I know a few. I've worked with quite a few. They have a job which can be very difficult, where, as you say, a split second decision or mistake can cost someone their life.

But I have to be accountable in my job. So should they.

Agree  with all of that but in a city bordering on 800 murders over the past 12 months, for the Senior Senator to fire gasoline on an already tense situation to score political points is unconscionable.

Maybe if his wife was out conducting traffic stops in a virtual war zone he might had adopted a different approach. ( But of course she's a lobbyist)

That tweet was from April 15, in response to that incident where the cops killed the 13 year old who has just tossed his gun away. I thought at first it was in response to this cop's murder.

He did send a letter to the USAG to urge additional action on straw purchases of guns.

For whatever that is worth. Fingers in the dyke comes to mind.

https://www.durbin.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Letter%20from%20Senator%20Durbin%20to%20Attorney%20General%20Garland%20-%20August%2010,%202021.pdf (https://www.durbin.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Letter%20from%20Senator%20Durbin%20to%20Attorney%20General%20Garland%20-%20August%2010,%202021.pdf)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2021, 06:47:12 PM
Quote from: dec on August 10, 2021, 05:07:31 PM
Cuomo resigns

Effective in 14 days

NY will have its first female governor.

Scramble will start now for next year's election.

Republicans were actually considering putting up a serious candidate this time out as they thought Cuomo was beatable. Will they bother now, or just let the Trump rabble put up a sacrificial lamb? Apparently Giuliani's idiot son is running.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2021, 07:00:43 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/229839696_10159111826478046_1312897944085200258_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=c7sYnu3lsf8AX9LmYAI&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=66a98ab80a5aa150830fa4b5737e721e&oe=61383D32)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 07:47:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2021, 07:00:43 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/229839696_10159111826478046_1312897944085200258_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=c7sYnu3lsf8AX9LmYAI&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=66a98ab80a5aa150830fa4b5737e721e&oe=61383D32)
eamon and j70 are right the 1million apprehended at the southern border so far this year have all had their passports stamped are vaccinated or have a negative covid test from last 72 hours with them like you would have at any port of entry, be silly to think otherwise
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 08:12:53 PM
Quote from: dec on August 10, 2021, 05:07:31 PM
Cuomo resigns

Effective in 14 days
newsom next
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2021, 09:37:45 PM
Quote from: dec on August 10, 2021, 05:07:31 PM
Cuomo resigns

Effective in 14 days

Before the usual childish gloating from the right, a friendly reminder:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/236102353_4835011016515197_4538678564582058127_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DBOHSPwxbGYAX883gBo&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=f3d39bdc532a92666678749e0ab27a3f&oe=61393A8F)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 11:10:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2021, 09:37:45 PM
Quote from: dec on August 10, 2021, 05:07:31 PM
Cuomo resigns

Effective in 14 days

Before the usual childish gloating from the right, a friendly reminder:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/236102353_4835011016515197_4538678564582058127_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DBOHSPwxbGYAX883gBo&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=f3d39bdc532a92666678749e0ab27a3f&oe=61393A8F)
does someone want to tell eamon about bill clinton ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 10, 2021, 11:53:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 11:10:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2021, 09:37:45 PM
Quote from: dec on August 10, 2021, 05:07:31 PM
Cuomo resigns

Effective in 14 days

Before the usual childish gloating from the right, a friendly reminder:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/236102353_4835011016515197_4538678564582058127_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DBOHSPwxbGYAX883gBo&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=f3d39bdc532a92666678749e0ab27a3f&oe=61393A8F)
does someone want to tell eamon about bill clinton ?

And Ted Kennedy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Never beat the deeler on August 10, 2021, 11:53:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2021, 09:37:45 PM
Quote from: dec on August 10, 2021, 05:07:31 PM
Cuomo resigns

Effective in 14 days

Before the usual childish gloating from the right, a friendly reminder:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/236102353_4835011016515197_4538678564582058127_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DBOHSPwxbGYAX883gBo&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=f3d39bdc532a92666678749e0ab27a3f&oe=61393A8F)

the likes of this post is as bad as anyone on the 'other side' that you deride posts and serves no purpose other than petty point scoring.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on August 11, 2021, 05:10:40 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on August 10, 2021, 11:53:24 PM

the likes of this post is as bad as anyone on the 'other side' that you deride posts and serves no purpose other than petty point scoring.


A petty point scoring thread is what we have now - deeler is spot on.

These little mini-feuds, while not at a personal level yet, could explode at any time.  J70 and gmac seem to delight in jabbing the other side - and the other side takes no notice whatsoever.  Eamonn jumps in whenever the baby is asleep I suppose and a few others post rarely.  Although whitey has resurfaced again to bring another voice.  I suppose two on the left and two on the right is balanced...but the extreme examples used to score petty points do not present a normal, balanced debate.

But some day, someone will cross the line - that's what always happens.  Then we will lose some posters for ever due to necessary bans.

So I'm wondering if the thread should be locked for a while? 

Or could we ask the petty point kickers to take a month off...they hardly deserve bans, but the thread is a tiresome read nowadays. 

If they could learn to quote just the post they are concerned about, rather than all 22 in the "conversation".   Most should know that replying to the last post does not mean you have to quote it...although I'd love a "quote one post only" rule, but that seems not possible in the type of forum we are in.

I know it's easy to say that we should just ignore the thread, but this is a discussion board and this thread is not anywhere near a discussion.

What say ye?




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on August 11, 2021, 09:52:01 AM
It's an insane thread, the content is utter bullchit. I particularly find the posters on the left abhorrent, whilst the posters on the right ain't much better. Its adds nothing to the board, better off deleting it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: JoG2 on August 11, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
It's the Donegal man v a couple of Irish racists thread.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2021, 10:18:21 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 11, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
It's the Donegal man v a couple of Irish racists thread.

According to our Vice President the President is a racist


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/07/08/politics/jill-biden-surprised-kamala-harris-debate/index.html

"(CNN) Jill Biden says California Sen. Kamala Harris implied her husband Joe Biden is racist with her attack on the former vice president during the first Democratic presidential debate."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2021, 12:13:23 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on August 11, 2021, 05:10:40 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on August 10, 2021, 11:53:24 PM

the likes of this post is as bad as anyone on the 'other side' that you deride posts and serves no purpose other than petty point scoring.


A petty point scoring thread is what we have now - deeler is spot on.

These little mini-feuds, while not at a personal level yet, could explode at any time.  J70 and gmac seem to delight in jabbing the other side - and the other side takes no notice whatsoever.  Eamonn jumps in whenever the baby is asleep I suppose and a few others post rarely.  Although whitey has resurfaced again to bring another voice.  I suppose two on the left and two on the right is balanced...but the extreme examples used to score petty points do not present a normal, balanced debate.

But some day, someone will cross the line - that's what always happens.  Then we will lose some posters for ever due to necessary bans.

So I'm wondering if the thread should be locked for a while? 

Or could we ask the petty point kickers to take a month off...they hardly deserve bans, but the thread is a tiresome read nowadays. 

If they could learn to quote just the post they are concerned about, rather than all 22 in the "conversation".   Most should know that replying to the last post does not mean you have to quote it...although I'd love a "quote one post only" rule, but that seems not possible in the type of forum we are in.

I know it's easy to say that we should just ignore the thread, but this is a discussion board and this thread is not anywhere near a discussion.

What say ye?

I suggest you reread the thread a bit.

I've no feud with anyone. The vast majority of this thread is Gmac posting irrational, poorly supported right wing nonsense, and other people, especially myself admittedly, responding to it and doing things like asking for evidence. Which never comes, and then he posts more bullshit. He even brought it into the Covid thread last week, although he's not the only one posting shite there. If its a discussion board, do we just sit back and allow that stuff to go unchallenged?

But if I'm misreading my own contribution, by all means point out some examples.

Point taken on trimming the quotes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2021, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 11, 2021, 09:52:01 AM
It's an insane thread, the content is utter bullchit. I particularly find the posters on the left abhorrent, whilst the posters on the right ain't much better. Its adds nothing to the board, better off deleting it.

Or just don't f**king click on the thread.

Its not hard.

On the other hand, if you must click and my views are so "abhorrent", how about outlining your objections?

This place could use a bit of sensible analysis and discussion from the right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2021, 12:24:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2021, 11:53:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2021, 11:10:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2021, 09:37:45 PM
Quote from: dec on August 10, 2021, 05:07:31 PM
Cuomo resigns

Effective in 14 days

Before the usual childish gloating from the right, a friendly reminder:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/236102353_4835011016515197_4538678564582058127_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DBOHSPwxbGYAX883gBo&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=f3d39bdc532a92666678749e0ab27a3f&oe=61393A8F)
does someone want to tell eamon about bill clinton ?

And Ted Kennedy

Valid points.

But also begging the question of why, now that the world has changed and the Dems have seen the light and their mistakes from a few decades ago, what is the GOP and the right waiting for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:43:27 PM
Few boys be looking refunds for their "I'm a Cuomosexual" tshirts now I doubt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
If only people were as passionate about Irish politics as they are about American.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on August 11, 2021, 01:01:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2021, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 11, 2021, 09:52:01 AM
It's an insane thread, the content is utter bullchit. I particularly find the posters on the left abhorrent, whilst the posters on the right ain't much better. Its adds nothing to the board, better off deleting it.

Or just don't f**king click on the thread.

Its not hard.

On the other hand, if you must click and my views are so "abhorrent", how about outlining your objections?

This place could use a bit of sensible analysis and discussion from the right.

Your probably right, I have given up the drink, think I will give up this bullchit too. Farewell
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2021, 01:05:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
If only people were as passionate about Irish politics as they are about American.

Irish politics is mostly about bread and butter issues, with not much widespread deviation from a fairly centrist mean.

US politics has one side mostly in the mainstream of western, secular politics, and the other off in an irrational cloud cuckoo land fantasy which would be amusing if it wasn't so influential and, thus, dangerous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 01:06:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2021, 01:05:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
If only people were as passionate about Irish politics as they are about American.

Irish politics is mostly about bread and butter issues, with not much widespread deviation from a fairly centrist mean.

US politics has one side mostly in the mainstream of western, secular politics, and the other off in an irrational cloud cuckoo land fantasy which would be amusing if it wasn't so influential and, thus, dangerous.

Couldn't help yourself could you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2021, 01:08:27 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 01:06:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2021, 01:05:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
If only people were as passionate about Irish politics as they are about American.

Irish politics is mostly about bread and butter issues, with not much widespread deviation from a fairly centrist mean.

US politics has one side mostly in the mainstream of western, secular politics, and the other off in an irrational cloud cuckoo land fantasy which would be amusing if it wasn't so influential and, thus, dangerous.

Couldn't help yourself could you?

It's a fact.

If that's uncomfortable for you, that's not my fault.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:43:27 PM
Few boys be looking refunds for their "I'm a Cuomosexual" tshirts now I doubt.
j70 has a closet full of merch I'd say and a few t-shirts with avenatti for president with a picture of him on it with the view ladies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 11, 2021, 03:38:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:43:27 PM
Few boys be looking refunds for their "I'm a Cuomosexual" tshirts now I doubt.
j70 has a closet full of merch I'd say and a few t-shirts with avenatti for president with a picture of him on it with the view ladies

You'd be a fun pair standing beside eachother!

(https://img.joomcdn.net/01b1488fc3a45d46a4046e06e0b812c282cd7071_1024_957.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2021, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
If only people were as passionate about Irish politics as they are about American.

Posters living in America posting about American politics shocker
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2021, 04:27:05 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/us/politics/john-fetterman-gun-black-jogger.amp.html

Democratic Senatorial candidate pulled a gun on a black jogger

Now if that was a Republican......
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 11, 2021, 04:27:23 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2021, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
If only people were as passionate about Irish politics as they are about American.

Posters living in America posting about American politics shocker

US two party politics are nasty and divisive as it's now the norm to pick a side and irrespective of what they do or don't do you stick with them no matter what, defend them to you're blue in the face or engage in whataboutery..

A good bit like NI in fact
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2021, 04:27:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:43:27 PM
Few boys be looking refunds for their "I'm a Cuomosexual" tshirts now I doubt.
j70 has a closet full of merch I'd say and a few t-shirts with avenatti for president with a picture of him on it with the view ladies

Yes. They give them out free at the George Soros-sponsored adenochrome-harvesting-from-kids research symposiums.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on August 11, 2021, 04:28:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 01:06:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2021, 01:05:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
If only people were as passionate about Irish politics as they are about American.

Irish politics is mostly about bread and butter issues, with not much widespread deviation from a fairly centrist mean.

US politics has one side mostly in the mainstream of western, secular politics, and the other off in an irrational cloud cuckoo land fantasy which would be amusing if it wasn't so influential and, thus, dangerous.

Couldn't help yourself could you?
Hes not far wrong though is he? The dems in any other western country would be considered a right of centre party. Thats how far the right has shifted in the states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2021, 04:34:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2021, 04:27:05 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/us/politics/john-fetterman-gun-black-jogger.amp.html

Democratic Senatorial candidate pulled a gun on a black jogger

Now if that was a Republican......

He would be the subject of a story in The NY Times last February??

It would have been an issue in an earlier electoral race?

Trump Junior would have tweeted about it?

It will absolutely be brought up in next year's campaign?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2021, 04:58:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2021, 04:34:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2021, 04:27:05 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/us/politics/john-fetterman-gun-black-jogger.amp.html

Democratic Senatorial candidate pulled a gun on a black jogger

Now if that was a Republican......

He would be the subject of a story in The NY Times last February??

It would have been an issue in an earlier electoral race?

Trump Junior would have tweeted about it?

It will absolutely be brought up in next year's campaign?

He would have been forced to withdraw and resign and he would have been painted as a whites supremacist and racist
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2021, 05:18:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2021, 04:58:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2021, 04:34:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2021, 04:27:05 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/us/politics/john-fetterman-gun-black-jogger.amp.html

Democratic Senatorial candidate pulled a gun on a black jogger

Now if that was a Republican......

He would be the subject of a story in The NY Times last February??

It would have been an issue in an earlier electoral race?

Trump Junior would have tweeted about it?

It will absolutely be brought up in next year's campaign?

He would have been forced to withdraw and resign and he would have been painted as a whites supremacist and racist

I don't know. The GOP primary base doesn't seem to be the types of people who would have much of a problem with what Fetterman did. Nor does the right wing media. Or Trump.

And that is pretty much all that matters to those running to be Republican candidates these days.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on August 11, 2021, 08:58:27 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 11, 2021, 09:52:01 AM
It's an insane thread, the content is utter bullchit. I particularly find the posters on the left abhorrent, whilst the posters on the right ain't much better. Its adds nothing to the board, better off deleting it.

"Abhorrent" ffs.

Catch yourself on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2021, 10:20:20 PM
Biden reduces us production of oil and then asks opec to pump more oil to make gas prices cheaper in the USA wtf , inflation through the roof also , Jimmy Carter 2.0
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 12, 2021, 05:08:44 AM
https://www.newsy.com/stories/health-officials-deny-claims-of-migrants-causing-covid-surge/?jwsource=cl

GMAC look this over and then try to put a little more perspective into your posts about who's spreading CoVid.
I think you could go a long way to curing that Biden tick you have with a long walk on Windy Hill. I believe I have already suggested this therapy to you. I guess you may not have tried it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2021, 06:34:27 AM
GMAC and Whitey are on my ignore list.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2021, 12:01:56 PM
Holy mackerel-anyone see the latest Hunter Biden tape

I hope for Joe there's nothing incriminating in the laptop (the third one he's lost)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2021, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2021, 10:20:20 PM
Biden reduces us production of oil and then asks opec to pump more oil to make gas prices cheaper in the USA wtf , inflation through the roof also , Jimmy Carter 2.0

1.   OPEC dramatically reduced production last year when the pandemic started. They've been slowly increasing it of late. Biden wants them to get back to pre-pandemic levels more quickly, so that some of the current pressure due to steadily increasing demand is taken off the prices of petrol etc. One would have thought the likes of yourself would be cheering this?

2.   Not that it would necessarily be a bad thing (different debate), but where is the evidence that Biden has reduced US oil production? According to the linked data (up to May of this year), it went down briefly in February, but has climbed right back up and is now above where it was last year and is increasing. In fact, the only time over the past 25 years it was higher than the figures reported for April and May was in 2019 and 2020 up until the start of the pandemic.  https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/crude-oil-production#:~:text=In%20the%20long%2Dterm%2C%20the,according%20to%20our%20econometric%20models. (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/crude-oil-production#:~:text=In%20the%20long%2Dterm%2C%20the,according%20to%20our%20econometric%20models.)

3.   Now doubt you're sore, for whatever reason,  that Biden is pulling the US back from the "drill everywhere, no matter what (except for the Florida coast)" policies of the Trump administration, but even with the breaks put on Trump's "fire sale" of public reserves, the oil companies have a huge quantity of leases still to work on; 14 million acres in the west, 9 million acres offshore, and 7,700 unused drilling permits, with new permits for existing leases still being approved. Production is increasing both on federal lands and offshore. I understand you won't hear this info from your hysterical "news" sources, but if you're really interested in this issue and not just hit-and-run point scoring in the hope no one will bother their arse to respond, ten minutes on Google would open your eyes a wee bit.
https://www.eenews.net/articles/biden-paused-leasing-oil-boomed-anyway/ (https://www.eenews.net/articles/biden-paused-leasing-oil-boomed-anyway/)
https://apnews.com/article/why-is-biden-halting-federal-oil-and-gas-sales-b8f03552c2c2fa7ec0dfc5debeb3f882 (https://apnews.com/article/why-is-biden-halting-federal-oil-and-gas-sales-b8f03552c2c2fa7ec0dfc5debeb3f882)

4. Inflation will continue until global supply chains are fully up and running again. You do understand this, right? Is it Biden's fault that the price of second-hand cars went through the roof in the spring because of the chip shortage affecting supplies of new cars?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/11/cpi-report-july-2021.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/11/cpi-report-july-2021.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:46:24 PM
Quote from: omochain on August 12, 2021, 05:08:44 AM
https://www.newsy.com/stories/health-officials-deny-claims-of-migrants-causing-covid-surge/?jwsource=cl

GMAC look this over and then try to put a little more perspective into your posts about who's spreading CoVid.
I think you could go a long way to curing that Biden tick you have with a long walk on Windy Hill. I believe I have already suggested this therapy to you. I guess you may not have tried it.
I'm saying you can't be serious about covid and mandates with the current situation at the southern border . It should be closed and everyone told not to come here and to go home . Is that a right wing perspective?
If it is we are not in a healthy place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2021, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:46:24 PM
Quote from: omochain on August 12, 2021, 05:08:44 AM
https://www.newsy.com/stories/health-officials-deny-claims-of-migrants-causing-covid-surge/?jwsource=cl

GMAC look this over and then try to put a little more perspective into your posts about who's spreading CoVid.
I think you could go a long way to curing that Biden tick you have with a long walk on Windy Hill. I believe I have already suggested this therapy to you. I guess you may not have tried it.
I'm saying you can't be serious about covid and mandates with the current situation at the southern border . It should be closed and everyone told not to come here and to go home . Is that a right wing perspective?
If it is we are not in a healthy place.

Well that's a point you could debate and have a somewhat intelligent discussion about.

Wild, unsupported assertions about the border being a superspreader event and the cause of the current surge in Florida and the Mississippi valley is not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2021, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:46:24 PM
Quote from: omochain on August 12, 2021, 05:08:44 AM
https://www.newsy.com/stories/health-officials-deny-claims-of-migrants-causing-covid-surge/?jwsource=cl

GMAC look this over and then try to put a little more perspective into your posts about who's spreading CoVid.
I think you could go a long way to curing that Biden tick you have with a long walk on Windy Hill. I believe I have already suggested this therapy to you. I guess you may not have tried it.
I'm saying you can't be serious about covid and mandates with the current situation at the southern border . It should be closed and everyone told not to come here and to go home . Is that a right wing perspective?
If it is we are not in a healthy place.

Well that's a point you could debate and have a somewhat intelligent discussion about.

Wild, unsupported assertions about the border being a superspreader event and the cause of the current surge in Florida and the Mississippi valley is not.
did I say that ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2021, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2021, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:46:24 PM
Quote from: omochain on August 12, 2021, 05:08:44 AM
https://www.newsy.com/stories/health-officials-deny-claims-of-migrants-causing-covid-surge/?jwsource=cl

GMAC look this over and then try to put a little more perspective into your posts about who's spreading CoVid.
I think you could go a long way to curing that Biden tick you have with a long walk on Windy Hill. I believe I have already suggested this therapy to you. I guess you may not have tried it.
I'm saying you can't be serious about covid and mandates with the current situation at the southern border . It should be closed and everyone told not to come here and to go home . Is that a right wing perspective?
If it is we are not in a healthy place.

Well that's a point you could debate and have a somewhat intelligent discussion about.

Wild, unsupported assertions about the border being a superspreader event and the cause of the current surge in Florida and the Mississippi valley is not.
did I say that ?

You said it was a superspreader event.

And that is what various GOP personnel, not least the governor of Florida, are using to try to distract from any potential failings on their own policy fronts as Covid surges in their states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2021, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2021, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:46:24 PM
Quote from: omochain on August 12, 2021, 05:08:44 AM
https://www.newsy.com/stories/health-officials-deny-claims-of-migrants-causing-covid-surge/?jwsource=cl

GMAC look this over and then try to put a little more perspective into your posts about who's spreading CoVid.
I think you could go a long way to curing that Biden tick you have with a long walk on Windy Hill. I believe I have already suggested this therapy to you. I guess you may not have tried it.
I'm saying you can't be serious about covid and mandates with the current situation at the southern border . It should be closed and everyone told not to come here and to go home . Is that a right wing perspective?
If it is we are not in a healthy place.

Well that's a point you could debate and have a somewhat intelligent discussion about.

Wild, unsupported assertions about the border being a superspreader event and the cause of the current surge in Florida and the Mississippi valley is not.
did I say that ?

You said it was a superspreader event.

And that is what various GOP personnel, not least the governor of Florida, are using to try to distract from any potential failings on their own policy fronts as Covid surges in their states.
here's the thing if Trump was still president Jim Acosta and aoc and a bunch of other Democrats would be at the border to condemn the conditions that people are being held there so you can attach all the CNBC and cnn stuff you want but they are pretty much an arm of the Democrat party and don't do negative stuff about this administration. Joe Biden asked for this s as nd now is reaping what he sowed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2021, 01:34:34 AM
Ahh.....FFS. Now Joe is sending troops back to Afghanistan

What a cluster
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 13, 2021, 08:27:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2021, 01:34:34 AM
Ahh.....FFS. Now Joe is sending troops back to Afghanistan

What a cluster

Back to war or seeing people home safely?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2021, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2021, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2021, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2021, 05:46:24 PM
Quote from: omochain on August 12, 2021, 05:08:44 AM
https://www.newsy.com/stories/health-officials-deny-claims-of-migrants-causing-covid-surge/?jwsource=cl

GMAC look this over and then try to put a little more perspective into your posts about who's spreading CoVid.
I think you could go a long way to curing that Biden tick you have with a long walk on Windy Hill. I believe I have already suggested this therapy to you. I guess you may not have tried it.
I'm saying you can't be serious about covid and mandates with the current situation at the southern border . It should be closed and everyone told not to come here and to go home . Is that a right wing perspective?
If it is we are not in a healthy place.

Well that's a point you could debate and have a somewhat intelligent discussion about.

Wild, unsupported assertions about the border being a superspreader event and the cause of the current surge in Florida and the Mississippi valley is not.
did I say that ?

You said it was a superspreader event.

And that is what various GOP personnel, not least the governor of Florida, are using to try to distract from any potential failings on their own policy fronts as Covid surges in their states.
here's the thing if Trump was still president Jim Acosta and aoc and a bunch of other Democrats would be at the border to condemn the conditions that people are being held there so you can attach all the CNBC and cnn stuff you want but they are pretty much an arm of the Democrat party and don't do negative stuff about this administration. Joe Biden asked for this s as nd now is reaping what he sowed

I'm sorry... what??

Do you want to try again and make a coherent point out of that word salad?

First, I don't recall linking to any CNN stuff, at least in this particular discussion. And CNBC being an arm of the Democratic Party?? CNBC, the news channel dedicated to Wall Street and financial markets? Seriously?

And BTW, when I personally get a chance to watch evening news, we usually stick on the NBC Lester Holt show at 6:30pm ET. They've been covering the border problems, particularly the overcrowded facilities, extensively.

Which AOC has slammed BTW, which you'd see if you bothered to even check.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2021, 12:12:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2021, 01:34:34 AM
Ahh.....FFS. Now Joe is sending troops back to Afghanistan

What a cluster

Well, on the bright side at least Saddam is gone, I guess.

Have the US anything else to show for twenty years, billions of dollars, and hundreds of thousands dead in the Middle East?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2021, 02:14:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2021, 01:34:34 AM
Ahh.....FFS. Now Joe is sending troops back to Afghanistan

What a cluster
joe is gone home to rest for the weekend, he's not in charge this presidency is unraveling in front of our eyes and god knows where we will be in 4 years .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 16, 2021, 02:24:18 PM
At least Biden didn't say mean things on twitter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 02:41:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 16, 2021, 02:24:18 PM
At least Biden didn't say mean things on twitter.

Was it not Trump who instigated this withdrawal in the first place??

You are right though the Biden administration have totally screwed this situation it's hard to see any good outcomes from here. Those pictures of people trying to cling on to a plane about to take off were harrowing!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cobra on August 16, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
Trump was right and Biden was right. The fact people are so far down the Dems and Republican rabbit holes is scary. Why should the US continue to fight this war? Send good men and women to early graves? Blow billions on a corrupt state? Afghanistan is a mess. No military or money changes that. Contain, cut off and move on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 16, 2021, 03:08:34 PM
Bush II has alot to answer for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2021, 03:39:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 16, 2021, 02:24:18 PM
At least Biden didn't say mean things on twitter.

If only that was the sole objectionable thing about Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2021, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 16, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
Trump was right and Biden was right. The fact people are so far down the Dems and Republican rabbit holes is scary. Why should the US continue to fight this war? Send good men and women to early graves? Blow billions on a corrupt state? Afghanistan is a mess. No military or money changes that. Contain, cut off and move on.

Contain, cut off, move on, and right back we go to square one, as if they'd never gone in there in the first place.

Its a massive stain on the US, across the board, and especially so for Biden, even if Trump did leave him holding a bag of shit.

I understand what you're saying, but the US owes those people, even if only basic security.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 16, 2021, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2021, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 16, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
Trump was right and Biden was right. The fact people are so far down the Dems and Republican rabbit holes is scary. Why should the US continue to fight this war? Send good men and women to early graves? Blow billions on a corrupt state? Afghanistan is a mess. No military or money changes that. Contain, cut off and move on.

Contain, cut off, move on, and right back we go to square one, as if they'd never gone in there in the first place.

Its a massive stain on the US, across the board, and especially so for Biden, even if Trump did leave him holding a bag of shit.

I was in the company of 2 (reluctant) Biden voters yesterday and they are blaming him 100%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 04:00:21 PM
He needs to get in front of a camera today and explain what the plan is!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 04:00:21 PM
He needs to get in front of a camera today and explain what the plan is!!
3-45 today
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2021, 04:14:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 16, 2021, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2021, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 16, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
Trump was right and Biden was right. The fact people are so far down the Dems and Republican rabbit holes is scary. Why should the US continue to fight this war? Send good men and women to early graves? Blow billions on a corrupt state? Afghanistan is a mess. No military or money changes that. Contain, cut off and move on.

Contain, cut off, move on, and right back we go to square one, as if they'd never gone in there in the first place.

Its a massive stain on the US, across the board, and especially so for Biden, even if Trump did leave him holding a bag of shit.

I was in the company of 2 (reluctant) Biden voters yesterday and they are blaming him 100%

What do YOU think?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 04:15:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 04:00:21 PM
He needs to get in front of a camera today and explain what the plan is!!
3-45 today

At least that's something. Last I read was "in the coming days".

The problem now is the only thing he can do to change the situation is send thousands of troops in to take back control from the Taliban but he's not going to do that so where can he go??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2021, 04:25:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 04:15:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 04:00:21 PM
He needs to get in front of a camera today and explain what the plan is!!
3-45 today

At least that's something. Last I read was "in the coming days".

The problem now is the only thing he can do to change the situation is send thousands of troops in to take back control from the Taliban but he's not going to do that so where can he go??

There is nowhere to go.

The options were to stay there for the foreseeable future and at least try to keep the country somewhat stable and secure, or get the f**k out and let the Taliban return to power, which is the option Biden was left, and which he seems to have executed in the most ham-fisted possible way.

Not much he can do now except, as you say, send the units back in, but there is zero appetite in the US for that.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tbrick18 on August 16, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 04:15:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 04:00:21 PM
He needs to get in front of a camera today and explain what the plan is!!
3-45 today

At least that's something. Last I read was "in the coming days".

The problem now is the only thing he can do to change the situation is send thousands of troops in to take back control from the Taliban but he's not going to do that so where can he go??

I wonder will they open diplomatic relations with the Taliban and recognise them as the official government.
Pay them off from afar to be less militant in their enforcement of their interpretation of Islam. Not sure that approach will work with such extreme views but might be worth a try to save lives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 16, 2021, 04:35:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2021, 04:14:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 16, 2021, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2021, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 16, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
Trump was right and Biden was right. The fact people are so far down the Dems and Republican rabbit holes is scary. Why should the US continue to fight this war? Send good men and women to early graves? Blow billions on a corrupt state? Afghanistan is a mess. No military or money changes that. Contain, cut off and move on.

Contain, cut off, move on, and right back we go to square one, as if they'd never gone in there in the first place.

Its a massive stain on the US, across the board, and especially so for Biden, even if Trump did leave him holding a bag of shit.

I was in the company of 2 (reluctant) Biden voters yesterday and they are blaming him 100%

What do YOU think?

Is he to blame for the war or the resurgence of the Taliban-NO!

Is he to blame for bungling the pullout? Debatable

Joe has armies of advisors and intelligence officers who should have a good feel for what's happening on the ground.

Did he get bad advice or he he ignore good advice?  That's the question that needs to be asked

(I highly doubt someone with his foreign relations experience would just make a decision without serious consideration of all potential outcomes)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2021, 05:04:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 16, 2021, 04:35:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2021, 04:14:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 16, 2021, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2021, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 16, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
Trump was right and Biden was right. The fact people are so far down the Dems and Republican rabbit holes is scary. Why should the US continue to fight this war? Send good men and women to early graves? Blow billions on a corrupt state? Afghanistan is a mess. No military or money changes that. Contain, cut off and move on.

Contain, cut off, move on, and right back we go to square one, as if they'd never gone in there in the first place.

Its a massive stain on the US, across the board, and especially so for Biden, even if Trump did leave him holding a bag of shit.

I was in the company of 2 (reluctant) Biden voters yesterday and they are blaming him 100%

What do YOU think?

Is he to blame for the war or the resurgence of the Taliban-NO!

Is he to blame for bungling the pullout? Debatable

Joe has armies of advisors and intelligence officers who should have a good feel for what's happening on the ground.

Did he get bad advice or he he ignore good advice?  That's the question that needs to be asked

(I highly doubt someone with his foreign relations experience would just make a decision without serious consideration of all potential outcomes)


Good point on the underlings. There's a fair few will be updating their CVs this week in State and Defense as there are going to be sackings.

The story going around seems to be that everyone is "shocked" at how quickly the  Afghan government and security forces folded, but surely this was foreseeable? Maybe the speed was unpredictable, but the endpoint was surely the Taliban retaking the country in most scenarios?

Whatever the reasons, and there have to be investigations obviously, I just can't believe how little discussion there was about this, both from the administration and in general (and this goes back to the last one too, when they negotiated the treaty). Where was the preparation of the public for the fact that, despite 20 years of war, spending, military service and sacrifice, and massive civilian casualties, that the US was basically walking away and giving it back to the Taliban (albeit, they hoped, in a restrained "we promise we'll be good this time" form)?

Or maybe there was discussion, but nobody in the US cared, with Covid and all the races issues and the election and, you know, Trump himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 16, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
If any Americans are captured and held by the Taliban all hell is going to break loose
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on August 16, 2021, 05:10:11 PM
It's a messed up situation, seeing people cling to US planes, people trying to get into planes etc. reminded me of images from the Vietnam exit. So many lives in danger now, anyone that helped the US troops while they were there are now in danger I suspect.

Biden and his administration have to take full blame for this mess. Three other presidents are to blame for different aspects of the war over the past 20 years but this exit is a mess. All last week we heard the Taliban were racing through the country taking over cities, towns and the country without any resistance so it should not come as a surprise that they tool over the capital this fast.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2021, 05:36:01 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s640x640/239047415_1211947875976917_8880217336695177849_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=yChHPOCS-cQAX-P7jCv&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=0badf7d7394ea7331db854bc29048efe&oe=61204ABE)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2021, 05:41:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2021, 05:36:01 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s640x640/239047415_1211947875976917_8880217336695177849_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=yChHPOCS-cQAX-P7jCv&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=0badf7d7394ea7331db854bc29048efe&oe=61204ABE)

Think most honest people get that, but that doesn't excuse the abandonment (for whatever reason) of so many people such as translators and their families to the Taliban takeover.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2021, 05:43:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2021, 12:12:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2021, 01:34:34 AM
Ahh.....FFS. Now Joe is sending troops back to Afghanistan

What a cluster

Well, on the bright side at least Saddam is gone, I guess.

Have the US anything else to show for twenty years, billions of dollars, and hundreds of thousands dead in the Middle East?

Nope. 20 years spending $2 trillion building up an Afghan army that folded in a couple of days and offered no resistance.

It'll take decades to undo the damage done by GW Bush in Afghanistan alone, to say nothing of the Iraq clusterf**k. Trying to impose democracy at gunpoint has been a failure. It's up to the people who live in these countries to defeat the hateful virus of Islamic extremism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 05:48:50 PM
Prediction for joes press conference it's all Trumps fault , book it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2021, 05:55:01 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2021, 05:43:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2021, 12:12:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2021, 01:34:34 AM
Ahh.....FFS. Now Joe is sending troops back to Afghanistan

What a cluster

Well, on the bright side at least Saddam is gone, I guess.

Have the US anything else to show for twenty years, billions of dollars, and hundreds of thousands dead in the Middle East?

Nope. 20 years spending $2 trillion building up an Afghan army that folded in a couple of days and offered no resistance.

It'll take decades to undo the damage done by GW Bush in Afghanistan alone, to say nothing of the Iraq clusterf**k. Trying to impose democracy at gunpoint has been a failure. It's up to the people who live in these countries to defeat the hateful virus of Islamic extremism.

According to this article, the "no resistance" and deal making amongst rival groups is a feature of Afghan conflicts about which the US should have been well aware, but for whatever reason, were not.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/16/afghanistan-history-taliban-collapse-504977 (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/16/afghanistan-history-taliban-collapse-504977)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2021, 06:06:08 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/238886398_10220484679131862_3784653758810896362_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=VdkvPEIUaMsAX_VkPKJ&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=f3d5cb5f868620fbe960ab0bd580b956&oe=611F6EA1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on August 16, 2021, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2021, 06:06:08 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/238886398_10220484679131862_3784653758810896362_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=VdkvPEIUaMsAX_VkPKJ&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=f3d5cb5f868620fbe960ab0bd580b956&oe=611F6EA1)

Finally a point that Biden agrees with Trump, getting out of Afghanistan. The Trump administration tried started the process with a peace deal, could they have done better - Possibly, could they have done worse - possibly.
Should Trump have left more troops there, maybe. Could Biden have brought in 1K or 2K troops to help the exit, maybe.

Everyone is so blinded by blaming the other side that no one see's the innocent people that are being hurt by all of this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 16, 2021, 06:34:32 PM
300000 Afghan Army troops against 70,000 Taliban and they folded in less than a week
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 16, 2021, 06:38:32 PM
They'd no food, corrupt leadership and no air cover apparently.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/13/world/asia/afghanistan-rapid-military-collapse.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/13/world/asia/afghanistan-rapid-military-collapse.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2021, 06:39:59 PM
The Rethuglicans will now try to score political points out of denouncing a policy that they supported not so long ago.

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s640x640/239300906_1211947429310295_2418053549884365940_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HTtrApzNydQAX-LnXyW&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=e67c36aa093d5f99be0cb4cec5007e3c&oe=611EB7FE)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2021, 06:56:18 PM
Always keep your receipts:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/235418466_4862785620402432_3217308422578600172_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=iO1B7dB-RI4AX_ufE8U&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=61ead7ed7a25db4786a849ce5de4549b&oe=6140A3EC)

Trump negotiated Baradar's release from a Pakistani prison in 2018. He met Pompeo in a meeting which Trump described as a "very good meeting with similar goals." He's on course to be the next president of Afghanistan.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on August 16, 2021, 08:19:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2021, 05:55:01 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2021, 05:43:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2021, 12:12:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2021, 01:34:34 AM
Ahh.....FFS. Now Joe is sending troops back to Afghanistan

What a cluster

Well, on the bright side at least Saddam is gone, I guess.

Have the US anything else to show for twenty years, billions of dollars, and hundreds of thousands dead in the Middle East?

Nope. 20 years spending $2 trillion building up an Afghan army that folded in a couple of days and offered no resistance.

It'll take decades to undo the damage done by GW Bush in Afghanistan alone, to say nothing of the Iraq clusterf**k. Trying to impose democracy at gunpoint has been a failure. It's up to the people who live in these countries to defeat the hateful virus of Islamic extremism.

According to this article, the "no resistance" and deal making amongst rival groups is a feature of Afghan conflicts about which the US should have been well aware, but for whatever reason, were not.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/16/afghanistan-history-taliban-collapse-504977 (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/16/afghanistan-history-taliban-collapse-504977)
Thats a good insight in to why this has happened so quickly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on August 16, 2021, 08:26:42 PM
As long as the oil and weapons moguls made their money that's all that matters in Washington at the end of the day. They wanted Syria and Iran too but they'll have another try at those in the decades to come.

The Red and Blue party finger pointing is just shadows on the wall of the cave. The Afghan army was likely full of Taliban sympathizers and infiltrators. It was never going to go any other way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 16, 2021, 09:24:28 PM
That wasn't good yeah Trump and Afghanistan deserve their fair share of blame but he's bungled this over the past 2 months and should have acknowledged that!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 09:44:36 PM
How could he not go back on any deal Trump made he's had executive order after executive order changing his policy decisions since he came into power .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2021, 09:46:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 09:44:36 PM
How could he not go back on any deal Trump made he's had executive order after executive order changing his policy decisions since he came into power .
Do you want the continued American presence in Afghanistan?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 10:01:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2021, 09:46:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 09:44:36 PM
How could he not go back on any deal Trump made he's had executive order after executive order changing his policy decisions since he came into power .
Do you want the continued American presence in Afghanistan?
no I don't, I think we all knew where this would end from day one
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 16, 2021, 10:12:36 PM
We're all in agreement. Lock the thread!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2021, 10:23:24 PM
He didn't take one question and left to go back on his vacation after the press conference was over
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2021, 05:58:45 AM
Friendly reminder that when Trump invited the Taliban over to Camp David for a terrorist sleepover on 9/11 (whereupon Fox News would have lost their goddamn minds if a Dem president had done it), John Bolton called it the stupidest BS he'd seen in his life. Trump then fired Bolton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2021, 07:15:21 AM
More from the "we have always been at war with East Asia" crowd:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/239294261_1211958235975881_8641752174338801055_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=cVfTcBgPkkoAX_IJ3Yt&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=aef5a0ad1c2cd77c70fb5d3f7b8b9ba1&oe=611FD457)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 17, 2021, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2021, 05:58:45 AM
Friendly reminder that when Trump invited the Taliban over to Camp David for a terrorist sleepover on 9/11 (whereupon Fox News would have lost their goddamn minds if a Dem president had done it), John Bolton called it the stupidest BS he'd seen in his life. Trump then fired Bolton.

The Taliban had SFA to do with 9/11.

It was Al-Qaeda who were almost exclusively Saudi's.

The US picked their bogey man to be Afghanistan as it was easier to transfer that vengeance for 9/11 onto a tangible country rather than a guerrilla outfit that comes and goes like a wisp of smoke.

everything else was all about the  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tbrick18 on August 17, 2021, 11:11:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 17, 2021, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2021, 05:58:45 AM
Friendly reminder that when Trump invited the Taliban over to Camp David for a terrorist sleepover on 9/11 (whereupon Fox News would have lost their goddamn minds if a Dem president had done it), John Bolton called it the stupidest BS he'd seen in his life. Trump then fired Bolton.

The Taliban had SFA to do with 9/11.

It was Al-Qaeda who were almost exclusively Saudi's.

The US picked their bogey man to be Afghanistan as it was easier to transfer that vengeance for 9/11 onto a tangible country rather than a guerrilla outfit that comes and goes like a wisp of smoke.

everything else was all about the  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

There's definitely something to that.
Is it any wonder that so many of these "extremists" are able to recruit and create propaganda against the west when the US and UK do this sort of thing?
Think how much of a recruitment tool that Bloody Sunday was here for the IRA. What does 20 years of occupation do for the Taliban? Or Al-Qaeda for that matter. The manner in which they have left Afghanistan and the vulnerable people there and the speed of the Taliban re-taking the country makes this look like a hurried retreat and a defeat to the Taliban. I see the media reporting that Kabul is like Biden's Saigon. There are certainly parallels there.
When you add all the US/UK caused deaths to a military victory for the Taliban, they are going to be more entrenched and emboldened than ever.

The sensible, humane and moral thing to do would have been to remain with a military presence to keep the peace and to enforce governance on the Afghan military and government until such times that they could self govern. It would take decades but the alternative is what we are now seeing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2021, 11:37:30 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on August 17, 2021, 11:11:13 AM

The sensible, humane and moral thing to do would have been to remain with a military presence to keep the peace and to enforce governance on the Afghan military and government until such times that they could self govern. It would take decades but the alternative is what we are now seeing.


Yes. It was one or the other. And its not like they haven't had troops stationed all over the planet for decades in other countries.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2021, 12:14:52 PM
Could the Taliban have changed in the last 20 years? They have made moves internationally whereas before it would have not had outside contact bar Pakistan.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kidder81 on August 17, 2021, 12:34:40 PM
Biden said it was never about "nation building", the opposite of what he has said in the past
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 17, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
The taliban see the weakness in the president and in the whole administration and don't fear any reprisals so now the USA is begging them to leave the airport open and try get get some people out , they will probably clean out their jails and send them through as asylum seekers . Joe is not in charge he is surrounded by idiots as the last few days have shown.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Keyser soze on August 17, 2021, 03:43:05 PM
The problem in USA, and indeed some other nations, is that when formulating foreign policy they listen to the armed forces, who are not exactly the brains trust of the nation if you get my drift.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 17, 2021, 03:45:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
The taliban see the weakness in the president and in the whole administration and don't fear any reprisals so now the USA is begging them to leave the airport open and try get get some people out , they will probably clean out their jails and send them through as asylum seekers . Joe is not in charge he is surrounded by idiots as the last few days have shown.

Pompeo has already emptied the jails so no worries on that front.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 17, 2021, 04:03:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 17, 2021, 03:45:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
The taliban see the weakness in the president and in the whole administration and don't fear any reprisals so now the USA is begging them to leave the airport open and try get get some people out , they will probably clean out their jails and send them through as asylum seekers . Joe is not in charge he is surrounded by idiots as the last few days have shown.

Pompeo has already emptied the jails so no worries on that front.
those ones will be staying.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 17, 2021, 04:29:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2021, 04:03:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 17, 2021, 03:45:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
The taliban see the weakness in the president and in the whole administration and don't fear any reprisals so now the USA is begging them to leave the airport open and try get get some people out , they will probably clean out their jails and send them through as asylum seekers . Joe is not in charge he is surrounded by idiots as the last few days have shown.

Pompeo has already emptied the jails so no worries on that front.
those ones will be staying.

So it's the non taliban ones that concern you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2021, 04:32:26 PM
5-10,000 Americans supposedly still stuck in Afghanistan

WTF was Joe thinking?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2021, 04:47:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2021, 04:32:26 PM
5-10,000 Americans supposedly still stuck in Afghanistan

WTF was Joe thinking?

He was obviously seriously misled about the potential speed of the Taliban reconquest. They thought they'd have a couple of months.

Absolute clusterfuck.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2021, 04:57:57 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 17, 2021, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2021, 05:58:45 AM
Friendly reminder that when Trump invited the Taliban over to Camp David for a terrorist sleepover on 9/11 (whereupon Fox News would have lost their goddamn minds if a Dem president had done it), John Bolton called it the stupidest BS he'd seen in his life. Trump then fired Bolton.

The Taliban had SFA to do with 9/11.

It was Al-Qaeda who were almost exclusively Saudi's.

The US picked their bogey man to be Afghanistan as it was easier to transfer that vengeance for 9/11 onto a tangible country rather than a guerrilla outfit that comes and goes like a wisp of smoke.

everything else was all about the  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

There's a lot of truth in that. Al Queda was using Afghanistan as a staging ground all right, but invading the place was more about posturing and enriching military contractors. Bush Jnr had the chance to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan but diverted the troops to Iraq. It took Obama to get Bin Laden, and that was with a small group of special forces working behind the scenes in Pakistan. No grandiose invasion needed there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2021, 04:58:42 PM
Taken from elsewhere:

August 16, 2021 (Monday)
According to an article by Susannah George in the Washington Post, the lightning speed takeover of Afghanistan by Taliban forces—which captured all 17 of the regional capitals and the national capital of Kabul in about nine days with astonishing ease—was a result of "cease fire" deals, which amounted to bribes, negotiated after former president Trump's administration came to an agreement with the Taliban in February 2020. When U.S. officials excluded the Afghan government from the deal, soldiers believed that it was only a question of time until they were on their own and cut deals to switch sides. When Biden announced that he would honor Trump's deal, the process sped up.

This seems to me to beg the question of how the Biden administration continued to have faith that the Afghan army would at the very least delay the Taliban victory, if not prevent it. Did military and intelligence leaders have no inkling of such a development? In a speech today in which he stood by his decision to remove U.S. troops from Afghanistan, President Joe Biden explained that the U.S. did not begin evacuating Afghan civilians sooner because some, still hoping they could hold off the Taliban, did not yet want to leave.

At the same time, Biden said, "the Afghan government and its supporters discouraged us from organizing a mass exodus to avoid triggering, as they said, 'a crisis of confidence.'" He explained that he had urged Afghan President Ashraf Ghani and Chairman Abdullah Abdullah of the High Council for National Reconciliation to clean up government corruption, unite politically, and seek a political settlement with the Taliban. They "flatly refused" to do so, but "insisted the Afghan forces would fight."

Instead, government officials themselves fled the country before the Taliban arrived in Kabul, throwing the capital into chaos.
Biden argued today that the disintegration of the Afghan military proved that pulling out the few remaining U.S. troops was the right decision. He inherited from former president Donald Trump the deal with the Taliban agreeing that if the Taliban stopped killing U.S. soldiers and refused to protect terrorists, the U.S. would withdraw its forces by May 1, 2021. The Taliban stopped killing soldiers after it negotiated the deal, and Trump dropped the number of soldiers in Afghanistan from about 15,500 to about 2,500.

Biden had either to reject the deal, pour in more troops, and absorb more U.S. casualties, or honor the plan that was already underway. "I stand squarely behind my decision," Biden said today. "American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves. We spent over a trillion dollars. We trained and equipped an Afghan military force of some 300,000 strong—incredibly well equipped—a force larger in size than the militaries of many of our NATO allies.... We gave them every tool they could need. We paid their salaries, provided...close air support. We gave them every chance to determine their own future.  What we could not provide them was the will to fight for that future."

"It is wrong to order American troops to step up when Afghanistan's own armed forces would not. If the political leaders of Afghanistan were unable to come together for the good of their people, unable to negotiate for the future of their country when the chips were down, they would never have done so while U.S. troops remained in Afghanistan bearing the brunt of the fighting for them."

Biden added, "I'm left again to ask of those who argue that we should stay: How many more generations of America's daughters and sons would you have me send to fight...Afghanistan's civil war when Afghan troops will not?" 

The president recalled that the U.S. invaded Afghanistan almost 20 years ago to prevent another al Qaeda attack on America by making sure the Taliban government could not continue to protect al Qaeda and by removing Osama bin Laden. After accomplishing those goals, though, the U.S. expanded its mission to turn the country into a unified, centralized democracy, a mission that was not, Biden said, a vital national interest.

Biden, who is better versed in foreign affairs than any president since President George H. W. Bush, said today that the U.S. should focus not on counterinsurgency or on nation building, but narrowly on counterterrorism, which now reaches far beyond Afghanistan. Terrorism missions do not require a permanent military presence. The U.S. already conducts such missions, and will conduct them in Afghanistan in the future, if necessary, he said.
Biden claims that human rights are central to his foreign policy, but he wants to accomplish them through diplomacy, economic tools, and rallying others to join us, rather than with "endless military deployments." He explained that U.S. diplomats are secure at the Kabul airport, and he has authorized 6,000 U.S. troops to go to Afghanistan to help with evacuation.
Biden accepted responsibility for his decision to leave Afghanistan, and he maintained that it is the right decision for America.
While a lot of U.S. observers have quite strong opinions about what the future looks like for Afghanistan, it seems to me far too soon to guess how the situation there will play out. There is a lot of power sloshing around in central Asia right now, and I don't think either that Taliban leaders are the major players or that Afghanistan is the primary stage. Russia has just concluded military exercises with Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, both of which border Afghanistan, out of concern about the military takeover of Afghanistan by the Taliban. At the same time, the area is about to have to deal with large numbers of Afghan refugees, who are already fleeing the country.

But the attacks on Biden for the withdrawal from Afghanistan do raise the important question of when it is in America's interest to fight a ground war. Should we limit foreign intervention to questions of the safety of Americans? Should we protect our economic interests? Should we fight to spread democracy? Should we fight to defend human rights? Should we fight to shorten other wars, or prevent genocide?
These are not easy questions, and reasonable people can, and maybe should, disagree about the answers.
But none of them is about partisan politics, either; they are about defining our national interest.

It strikes me that some of the same people currently expressing concern over the fate of Afghanistan's women and girls work quite happily with Saudi Arabia, which has its own repressive government, and have voted against reauthorizing our own Violence Against Women Act. Some of the same people worrying about the slowness of our evacuation of our Afghan allies voted just last month against providing more visas for them, and others seemed to worry very little about our utter abandonment of our Kurdish allies when we withdrew from northern Syria in 2019. And those worrying about democracy in Afghanistan seem to be largely unconcerned about protecting voting rights here at home.

Most notably to me, some of the same people who are now focusing on keeping troops in Afghanistan to protect Americans seem uninterested in stopping the spread of a disease that has already killed more than 620,000 of us and that is, once again, raging.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2021, 05:40:26 PM
If this doesn't tell you it was a lost cause I don't know what does:

From an NPR story -   "The Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan and removal of the U.S.-backed government is stunning in its speed and tragic in its impact, but it does not surprise experts who have monitored the U.S. reconstruction efforts for the past 20 years. The reasons why are summed up by eight paradoxes that are at the heart of a U.S. government watchdog's just-released review of the mission. ... The U.S. goals were often "operationally impractical or conceptually incoherent," the new SIGAR report says, running down a list of eight paradoxes the U.S. and its partners tried to navigate. The report says they tried to:


and this ... from a Washington Post story ...

"But perhaps the biggest hardship was having to teach virtually every recruit how to read. [Jack Kem, a retired Army officer] estimated that only 2 to 5 percent of Afghan recruits could read at a third-grade level despite efforts by the United States to enroll millions of Afghan children in school over the previous decade.

" 'The literacy was just insurmountable'," he said in an Army oral-history interview. Some Afghans also had to learn their colors, or had to be taught how to count. 'I mean, you'd ask an Afghan soldier how many brothers and sisters they had and they couldn't tell you it was four. They could tell you their names, but they couldn't go 'one, two, three, four.' "
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2021, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2021, 04:47:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2021, 04:32:26 PM
5-10,000 Americans supposedly still stuck in Afghanistan

WTF was Joe thinking?

He was obviously seriously misled about the potential speed of the Taliban reconquest. They thought they'd have a couple of months.

Absolute clusterfuck.

Makes you wonder about the "intelligence" they were relying on

If this goes badly I don't know what will happen

(I think everyone knew a collapse would come-but I think they were measuring in months not hours)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armagh18 on August 17, 2021, 06:10:31 PM
Should never have been there in the first place...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2021, 06:15:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 17, 2021, 06:10:31 PM
Should never have been there in the first place...

Al Quada killed 3000 American civilians on 9/11

They were based in Afghanistan and allowed to operate freely by the Taliban

US had no option but to take action against them

The screw up was invading Iraq, not invading Afghanistan
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 17, 2021, 06:34:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2021, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2021, 04:47:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2021, 04:32:26 PM
5-10,000 Americans supposedly still stuck in Afghanistan

WTF was Joe thinking?

He was obviously seriously misled about the potential speed of the Taliban reconquest. They thought they'd have a couple of months.

Absolute clusterfuck.

Makes you wonder about the "intelligence" they were relying on

If this goes badly I don't know what will happen

(I think everyone knew a collapse would come-but I think they were measuring in months not hours)
joe is not up to the job and is not making decisions ,if he knew what was going on he would have stood there yesterday and taken questions. Everyone who stood at the podium yesterday knew f all ,inept every one of them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2021, 07:14:12 PM
That's successive governments in the US that seem inept, I blame the ones voting them in, seriously daft ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on August 17, 2021, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2021, 07:14:12 PM
That's successive governments in the US that seem inept, I blame the ones voting them in, seriously daft ;)
I think it is safe to say Biden, Trump, Obama and Bush all contributed to the mess we see today.
No one of them carries all the blame but bad decisions were made under their watch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 17, 2021, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 17, 2021, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2021, 07:14:12 PM
That's successive governments in the US that seem inept, I blame the ones voting them in, seriously daft ;)
I think it is safe to say Biden, Trump, Obama and Bush all contributed to the mess we see today.
No one of them carries all the blame but bad decisions were made under their watch.

And Biden is the only one of the four who had a family member serve in the Armed Forces
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 17, 2021, 07:39:14 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 17, 2021, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2021, 07:14:12 PM
That's successive governments in the US that seem inept, I blame the ones voting them in, seriously daft ;)
I think it is safe to say Biden, Trump, Obama and Bush all contributed to the mess we see today.
No one of them carries all the blame but bad decisions were made under their watch.
that is true but the current administration have pulled out and left all the military hardware there for the taliban to take which they have already done ,left documentation of who was working with the Americans , they are responsible for the scenes that we saw at the airport in Kabul and leaving thousands of Americans and allies on the taliban side of a security perimeter around the airport
It cannot get much worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 17, 2021, 07:49:51 PM
Plenty of blame to go round both demo and rep presidents. Some tits (usual suspects) making fools of themselves on political point scoring. The USA are good at training f**k all, want someone to train a Army, try the Germans. What they done was use security contractors and any merc under the sun, money train funding, and supplied weapons, no air support remaining or heavy tank units. Not a wonder they folded. Any army commanders, section leaders needed to be foreign to keep this rabble in place. The foreign legion would fall apart of mickey mouse was leading them. All the American presidents are to blame especially Bush, Trump for the deal he done last year and Biden for not leaving a proper withdrawal, knowing they fold like a pack of cards. Any chance America do us a favour and stay with in North America in Future. All they cause us death and destruction. Land of the free indeed. America the greatest country in the world, only in their heads.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on August 17, 2021, 09:05:58 PM
Dick Cheney well worth a mention too. Probably more so than Bush
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on August 17, 2021, 10:11:53 PM
Each administration over the past 25 years made mistakes to lead to this point. However, the execution of the exit falls square on this administration.

The WH keeps saying that they wanted to stick with Trumps agreement rather than going back into a 10 year more war (or something to that effect). I thought Trump agreed to a 1st May exit, we're in the middle of Aug now so there should have been ample time to get this right. Sending in 2K-3K more troops to assist in a fast exit should have been an easy decision to make if there was concerns with the 2.5K troops there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2021, 11:30:29 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 17, 2021, 07:49:51 PM
Plenty of blame to go round both demo and rep presidents. Some tits (usual suspects) making fools of themselves on political point scoring. The USA are good at training f**k all, want someone to train a Army, try the Germans. What they done was use security contractors and any merc under the sun, money train funding, and supplied weapons, no air support remaining or heavy tank units. Not a wonder they folded. Any army commanders, section leaders needed to be foreign to keep this rabble in place. The foreign legion would fall apart of mickey mouse was leading them. All the American presidents are to blame especially Bush, Trump for the deal he done last year and Biden for not leaving a proper withdrawal, knowing they fold like a pack of cards. Any chance America do us a favour and stay with in North America in Future. All they cause us death and destruction. Land of the free indeed. America the greatest country in the world, only in their heads.

Even if the recruits can't read, write, nor count?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2021, 01:55:27 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 17, 2021, 07:49:51 PM
Plenty of blame to go round both demo and rep presidents. Some tits (usual suspects) making fools of themselves on political point scoring. The USA are good at training f**k all, want someone to train a Army, try the Germans. What they done was use security contractors and any merc under the sun, money train funding, and supplied weapons, no air support remaining or heavy tank units. Not a wonder they folded. Any army commanders, section leaders needed to be foreign to keep this rabble in place. The foreign legion would fall apart of mickey mouse was leading them. All the American presidents are to blame especially Bush, Trump for the deal he done last year and Biden for not leaving a proper withdrawal, knowing they fold like a pack of cards. Any chance America do us a favour and stay with in North America in Future. All they cause us death and destruction. Land of the free indeed. America the greatest country in the world, only in their heads.
send the waffen ss out to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gawa316 on August 18, 2021, 07:15:29 AM
So politics ain't my thing...Irish or American so I'm not on here to score points for a particular party but how in the name of God did this get fucked up so badly? How many Americans and others who supported them (translators etc) over the last 20 yrs, are still in Afghanistan? How did the withdrawal strategy not include getting all these people out?

With the 'news' here you never know what to believe but there are also pics and videos of weapons etc. all left behind for the taliban to take and use. It wasn't like the US military were chased out akin to the last few days. We're this weapons left for the Afghan military or did the US just up and leave them for finders keepers?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2021, 09:17:54 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on August 17, 2021, 10:11:53 PM
Each administration over the past 25 years made mistakes to lead to this point. However, the execution of the exit falls square on this administration.

The WH keeps saying that they wanted to stick with Trumps agreement rather than going back into a 10 year more war (or something to that effect). I thought Trump agreed to a 1st May exit, we're in the middle of Aug now so there should have been ample time to get this right. Sending in 2K-3K more troops to assist in a fast exit should have been an easy decision to make if there was concerns with the 2.5K troops there.

Well let's hope Biden does the right thing by all of these people now and gets them out of there to safety and into the process for residency in the States.

The Trump wing of the country is already ratcheting up the propaganda about them coming to "your neighbourhood", but what's right is right. If there's a political cost to it, so be it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 18, 2021, 10:17:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 18, 2021, 09:17:54 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on August 17, 2021, 10:11:53 PM
Each administration over the past 25 years made mistakes to lead to this point. However, the execution of the exit falls square on this administration.

The WH keeps saying that they wanted to stick with Trumps agreement rather than going back into a 10 year more war (or something to that effect). I thought Trump agreed to a 1st May exit, we're in the middle of Aug now so there should have been ample time to get this right. Sending in 2K-3K more troops to assist in a fast exit should have been an easy decision to make if there was concerns with the 2.5K troops there.

Well let's hope Biden does the right thing by all of these people now and gets them out of there to safety and into the process for residency in the States.

The Trump wing of the country is already ratcheting up the propaganda about them coming to "your neighbourhood", but what's right is right. If there's a political cost to it, so be it.
the 2 clowns milley and Austin just said in briefing that whoever the taliban let through is who's coming through and when they cut that drip off that's it .
Those 2 guys should have resigned or been fired by now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 19, 2021, 03:19:10 AM
Joe heading off home for a long weekend
10k plus us citizens are trying to get out of Afghanistan
This man is incompetent and dangerous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on August 19, 2021, 04:59:46 AM
I agree  Joe is useless (full of hot air)  and so was his predecessor, The Taliban played them all  like a drum ,


""In 2018, however, Washington's attitude changed and Donald Trump's Afghan envoy, Zalmay Khalilzad, asked the Pakistanis to release Baradar so he could lead negotiations in Qatar, based on the belief that he would settle for a power-sharing arrangement. "I had never seen any real substantiation of that point, but it just took on a kind of mythic idea," the former official said.
Baradar signed the Doha agreement with the US in February 2020, in what the Trump administration hailed as a breakthrough towards peace but which now appears a mere staging post towards total Taliban victory.""

""The US and Taliban agreement not to fight each other was supposed to be followed by power-sharing talks between the Taliban and the Kabul government of Ashraf Ghani. Those talks stumbled along with little progress, and it is clear now that Baradar and the Taliban were playing for time, waiting for the Americans to leave and preparing a final offensive. Baradar's life has taught him patience and confidence in ultimate victory.""
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Look-Up! on August 20, 2021, 02:49:09 PM
The mess Afghanistan is now in, for me, is not of Trump or Biden's doing. The people to blame under Bush administration are laughing all the way to the bank and unfortunately there will never be justice.

For all the spin and BS Biden is selling to the press at the moment, there is a lot of truth in what he says. Same as Trump recognised that they could not stay in the stale mate indefinitely, they have decided to go with the "ripping off the bandaid" option. While a phased withdrawal would make for better optics would it have led to a long drawn out civil war where civilians were going to be again the biggest losers anyway?

Time cannot be turned back 20 years but hopefully Afghanistan can find an Afghan solution for an Afghan problem. US intervention and trying to impose western style nation building was never going to work. Whatever you say about the Taliban, the previous government and police force was detested by the local population, possibly more than the Taliban were. The justice system was detested also as it was seen (justifiably) as completely corrupt. Many Afghans preferred Taliban Courts to Official ones to sort out legal disputes. The Taliban judgement was swift and cost free and based on Islamic code which people respected, even if the judgement went against them. Compare that to Official Courts where the process was slow, long drawn out, prohibitively expensive with bribery and corruption rampant. Sexual exploitation of young boys seems to have been rampant between local government and police officials too with little ordinary civilians or US soldiers could do about it.

So Taliban are back in town singing a milder hymn at present. In these sort of scenarios there will always be some amount of blood letting, doesn't matter who is in charge, you cannot control everyone and there is always someone with an old score to settle. Hopefully it will be minimal although the huge influx of military hardware the country has seen over the last 2 decades has to be a big big worry. It would be great if the country can move on and rebuild and turn into the fair, prosperous and progressive society it apparently once could have been. The Afghan people certainly deserve a break.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on August 20, 2021, 04:36:32 PM
The intention to withdraw is one thing, the operation of it is another. Why did the US not retain Bagram air base until the end and use it to fly people out? In their deal with the Taliban they should have said that no Taliban could come with 25km (or whatever) of this base until the West left and had some semblance of a plan for flights.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Look-Up! on August 20, 2021, 05:20:07 PM
Of course that makes sense but obviously their reading of the situation was well off what the reality is. If their finger is so far off the pulse, and has been from day one, I think whatever they done was likely to be a cluster **** anyway. A long drawn out civil war doesn't seem that great an alternative. There was always going to be human collateral damage unfortunately and we'll never know what would have been the best damage limitation exercise. What shocks me is that people are shocked at the yanks throwing their allies to the wolves when it suits.
It's history repeating itself over and over again. You don't try second guess an Afghan and you get in bed with Americans at your peril.   
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 21, 2021, 04:24:46 AM
Why the place is impossible to conquer. Good little primer if you've got 16 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab9zK8yT4_Y
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 02:19:16 AM
Joe and the administration think they can wait out this disaster ?  they seem to be doing f all
The videos and pictures coming from outside the airport are a disgrace and a humanitarian disaster.
Do you still think he's fit to run the country j70 ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 22, 2021, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 02:19:16 AM
Joe and the administration think they can wait out this disaster ?  they seem to be doing f all
The videos and pictures coming from outside the airport are a disgrace and a humanitarian disaster.
Do you still think he's fit to run the country j70 ?

Given the alternative we were presented, every f**king day of the week.

We weren't given a choice of Lincoln and FDR.

It was either one of the worst presidents and one of the worst human beings to occupy the office in history, or a mediocre, moderate politician.

So no regrets whatsoever on my end. Especially as there most likely would be f**k all that much different in terms of Afghanistan if Trump and Pompeo were running things.

Didn't you say a couple of weeks ago that you were going to ignore me, BTW?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 22, 2021, 05:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 02:19:16 AM
Joe and the administration think they can wait out this disaster ?  they seem to be doing f all
The videos and pictures coming from outside the airport are a disgrace and a humanitarian disaster.
Do you still think he's fit to run the country j70 ?

Yeah Trump would be all bout helping the Afghan civilians and translators who assisted through the last 20 years!!

Nobody is given Biden a pass on this but what was the alternative? I see his approval has held at 50 points from 51 today so doesn't seem like buyers remorse has set in yet!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 22, 2021, 05:25:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 02:19:16 AM
Joe and the administration think they can wait out this disaster ?  they seem to be doing f all
The videos and pictures coming from outside the airport are a disgrace and a humanitarian disaster.
Do you still think he's fit to run the country j70 ?

Given the alternative we were presented, every f**king day of the week.

We weren't given a choice of Lincoln and FDR.

It was either one of the worst presidents and one of the worst human beings to occupy the office in history, or a mediocre, moderate politician.

So no regrets whatsoever on my end. Especially as there most likely would be f**k all that much different in terms of Afghanistan if Trump and Pompeo were running things.

Didn't you say a couple of weeks ago that you were going to ignore me, BTW?

Don't know if it's true but there's rumblings that Joe wanted the withdrawal to be wrapped up by 9/11 so that he and Kamala could have some big photo op on the anniversary of 9/11.

Seemingly he ignored both advice and intelligence briefings that warned this might happen

Trump isn't without blames, but this outcome is 100% on Joe and Kamala
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 22, 2021, 05:46:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 22, 2021, 05:25:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 02:19:16 AM
Joe and the administration think they can wait out this disaster ?  they seem to be doing f all
The videos and pictures coming from outside the airport are a disgrace and a humanitarian disaster.
Do you still think he's fit to run the country j70 ?

Given the alternative we were presented, every f**king day of the week.

We weren't given a choice of Lincoln and FDR.

It was either one of the worst presidents and one of the worst human beings to occupy the office in history, or a mediocre, moderate politician.

So no regrets whatsoever on my end. Especially as there most likely would be f**k all that much different in terms of Afghanistan if Trump and Pompeo were running things.

Didn't you say a couple of weeks ago that you were going to ignore me, BTW?

Don't know if it's true but there's rumblings that Joe wanted the withdrawal to be wrapped up by 9/11 so that he and Kamala could have some big photo op on the anniversary of 9/11.

Seemingly he ignored both advice and intelligence briefings that warned this might happen

Trump isn't without blames, but this outcome is 100% on Joe and Kamala

Didn't say otherwise.

Hope your drains are clear BTW! We're getting washed out of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 05:48:53 PM
Complete disaster in Afghanistan
Southern border another disaster
Inflation
Cutting our own energy supply
Covid still rampant
Jan 6 another cover up
Like they used to say for four years it's only 10am on Sunday impeach this clown
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 22, 2021, 06:09:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 05:48:53 PM
Complete disaster in Afghanistan
Southern border another disaster
Inflation
Cutting our own energy supply
Covid still rampant
Jan 6 another cover up
Like they used to say for four years it's only 10am on Sunday impeach this clown

Jan 6 cover-up? Pease do tell us more you f**king clown.

More of the energy supply bullshit which I showed to be pure nonsense the other week?

Inflation? What does Biden do about the computer chips and the surge in second hand car demand? The increased demand for hotel rooms as people travel more internally? The global supply chain issues combined with increased demand driving shortages in things like furniture?

Covid ?  Are you f**king serious? The absolute gall of you; you were on here spreading moronic, half-baked misinformation a couple of weeks ago, nonsense you no doubt picked up from right media and politicians. The same kind of shite that's lengthening the pandemic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 06:09:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 22, 2021, 05:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 02:19:16 AM
Joe and the administration think they can wait out this disaster ?  they seem to be doing f all
The videos and pictures coming from outside the airport are a disgrace and a humanitarian disaster.
Do you still think he's fit to run the country j70 ?

Yeah Trump would be all bout helping the Afghan civilians and translators who assisted through the last 20 years!!

Nobody is given Biden a pass on this but what was the alternative? I see his approval has held at 50 points from 51 today so doesn't seem like buyers remorse has set in yet!
do you really think everyone storming the airport since last week were all translators?
Is that an msnbc poll they seem to be the only ones sticking with the clown show.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 06:09:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 05:48:53 PM
Complete disaster in Afghanistan
Southern border another disaster
Inflation
Cutting our own energy supply
Covid still rampant
Jan 6 another cover up
Like they used to say for four years it's only 10am on Sunday impeach this clown

Jan 6 cover-up? Pease do tell us more you f**king clown.

More of the energy supply bullshit which I showed to be pure nonsense the other week?

Inflation? What does Biden do about the computer chips and the surge in second hand car demand? The increased demand for hotel rooms as people travel more internally? The global supply chain issues combined with increased demand driving shortages in things like furniture?

Covid ?  Are you f**king serious? The absolute gall of you; you were on here spreading moronic, half-baked misinformation a couple of weeks ago, nonsense you no doubt picked up from right media and politicians. The same kind of shite that's lengthening the pandemic.
jan 6 might be hitting to close to home same with fake Michigan gov kidnapping.
I said something about pcr tests that has nothing to do with covid still being rampant.
A clown would be someone who can't see joe Biden is unfortunately cognitively challenged or is is still gaffes ? The gaffes are starting to cost tens of thousands of lives.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: maigheo on August 22, 2021, 07:32:40 PM
Jeez, Gmac you really are disgracing yourself with the rubbish you are posting .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 07:34:13 PM
Quote from: maigheo on August 22, 2021, 07:32:40 PM
Jeez, Gmac you really are disgracing yourself with the rubbish you are posting .
how exactly?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 07:39:53 PM
Quote from: maigheo on August 22, 2021, 07:32:40 PM
Jeez, Gmac you really are disgracing yourself with the rubbish you are posting .
I meant to say Mayo joe is the man
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 22, 2021, 09:02:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 06:09:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 05:48:53 PM
Complete disaster in Afghanistan
Southern border another disaster
Inflation
Cutting our own energy supply
Covid still rampant
Jan 6 another cover up
Like they used to say for four years it's only 10am on Sunday impeach this clown

Jan 6 cover-up? Pease do tell us more you f**king clown.

More of the energy supply bullshit which I showed to be pure nonsense the other week?

Inflation? What does Biden do about the computer chips and the surge in second hand car demand? The increased demand for hotel rooms as people travel more internally? The global supply chain issues combined with increased demand driving shortages in things like furniture?

Covid ?  Are you f**king serious? The absolute gall of you; you were on here spreading moronic, half-baked misinformation a couple of weeks ago, nonsense you no doubt picked up from right media and politicians. The same kind of shite that's lengthening the pandemic.
jan 6 might be hitting to close to home same with fake Michigan gov kidnapping.
I said something about pcr tests that has nothing to do with covid still being rampant.
A clown would be someone who can't see joe Biden is unfortunately cognitively challenged or is is still gaffes ? The gaffes are starting to cost tens of thousands of lives.

Ok, I'll play along, one last time.

1. WHAT exactly should Biden be doing, in your opinion, on Covid that he's not doing? You want to see federally mandated vaccinations? You want to see federally mandated lockdowns? Should he be down there in Florida and New Orleans kicking people out of clubs and bars? Should he make everyone take doses of Ivermectin with their corn flakes?

2. Spell out what the "cover up" is about January 6? And what exactly that has to do with the suspect's counter allegations in the Michigan governor's case? Give us your theory of how the FBI, presumably, manipulated and entrapped all those people to run riot in the Capitol after going there at Trump's behest.

3. Go ahead and give us some details on Biden and how his "cognitive decline" is responsible for what's going on in Afghanistan, as opposed to poor planning and intelligence, political blinders, wishful thinking and maybe simple bureaucratic incompetence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on August 22, 2021, 09:40:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 09:02:41 PM

Ok, I'll play along, one last time.

1. WHAT exactly should Biden be doing, in your opinion, on Covid that he's not doing? You want to see federally mandated vaccinations? You want to see federally mandated lockdowns? Should he be down there in Florida and New Orleans kicking people out of clubs and bars? Should he make everyone take doses of Ivermectin with their corn flakes?

2. Spell out what the "cover up" is about January 6? And what exactly that has to do with the suspect's counter allegations in the Michigan governor's case? Give us your theory of how the FBI, presumably, manipulated and entrapped all those people to run riot in the Capitol after going there at Trump's behest.

3. Go ahead and give us some details on Biden and how his "cognitive decline" is responsible for what's going on in Afghanistan, as opposed to poor planning and intelligence, political blinders, wishful thinking and maybe simple bureaucratic incompetence.

You must be new here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 01:53:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 09:02:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 06:09:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 05:48:53 PM
Complete disaster in Afghanistan
Southern border another disaster
Inflation
Cutting our own energy supply
Covid still rampant
Jan 6 another cover up
Like they used to say for four years it's only 10am on Sunday impeach this clown

Jan 6 cover-up? Pease do tell us more you f**king clown.

More of the energy supply bullshit which I showed to be pure nonsense the other week?

Inflation? What does Biden do about the computer chips and the surge in second hand car demand? The increased demand for hotel rooms as people travel more internally? The global supply chain issues combined with increased demand driving shortages in things like furniture?

Covid ?  Are you f**king serious? The absolute gall of you; you were on here spreading moronic, half-baked misinformation a couple of weeks ago, nonsense you no doubt picked up from right media and politicians. The same kind of shite that's lengthening the pandemic.
jan 6 might be hitting to close to home same with fake Michigan gov kidnapping.
I said something about pcr tests that has nothing to do with covid still being rampant.
A clown would be someone who can't see joe Biden is unfortunately cognitively challenged or is is still gaffes ? The gaffes are starting to cost tens of thousands of lives.

Ok, I'll play along, one last time.

1. WHAT exactly should Biden be doing, in your opinion, on Covid that he's not doing? You want to see federally mandated vaccinations? You want to see federally mandated lockdowns? Should he be down there in Florida and New Orleans kicking people out of clubs and bars? Should he make everyone take doses of Ivermectin with their corn flakes?

2. Spell out what the "cover up" is about January 6? And what exactly that has to do with the suspect's counter allegations in the Michigan governor's case? Give us your theory of how the FBI, presumably, manipulated and entrapped all those people to run riot in the Capitol after going there at Trump's behest.

3. Go ahead and give us some details on Biden and how his "cognitive decline" is responsible for what's going on in Afghanistan, as opposed to poor planning and intelligence, political blinders, wishful thinking and maybe simple bureaucratic incompetence.
close the southern border , start promoting healthy lifestyle and supplements, he got 90% of the black vote yet less than 30% are vaccinated maybe work on that . I think most people who are getting vaccinated have done so already but the mixed messages don't help ,
Cover up is probably wrong way to say it the investigation of a none event showed up nothing only maybe a few FBI agents were at it .
Afghanistan is all on joe he keeps saying it so he's either losing it or totally incompetent you pick whatever keeps you happy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 23, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered

The withdrawal debacle is all on Joe....100%!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/biden-wanted-to-leave-afghanistan-he-knew-the-risks-11629214842

"WASHINGTON—In his Monday speech defending America's chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, President Biden said he would not shrink from his share of responsibility.

That would include his decision to bring home U.S. troops, which was made against the recommendations of his top military generals and many diplomats, who warned that a hasty withdrawal would undermine security in Afghanistan, several administration and defense officials said."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 23, 2021, 10:20:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 21, 2021, 04:24:46 AM
Why the place is impossible to conquer. Good little primer if you've got 16 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab9zK8yT4_Y

feckin Brits to blame yet again...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 23, 2021, 01:03:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 01:53:26 AM

close the southern border , start promoting healthy lifestyle and supplements, he got 90% of the black vote yet less than 30% are vaccinated maybe work on that . I think most people who are getting vaccinated have done so already but the mixed messages don't help ,
Cover up is probably wrong way to say it the investigation of a none event showed up nothing only maybe a few FBI agents were at it .
Afghanistan is all on joe he keeps saying it so he's either losing it or totally incompetent you pick whatever keeps you happy.

If the southern border is a significant driver of the current surge in Covid, go ahead and present some evidence for it. You've been on about it for the past month and are yet to present a scinitilla of facts to back up your assertion.

Yes, black people need to be encouraged to vaccinate, but the feds and local governments are already working on that and have been for months. Employer mandates should also help drive those up. Healthy lifestyle education is all very well (although is that not nanny state, communist propaganda for many on the right? Remember the right wing reaction to Michelle Obama, shock horror, campaigning for childhood nutrition?), but its not going to help much in the immediate future for Covid, and especially for poor people who already live in food deserts. You'll have to expand on supplements as I don't know what you're on about.

I'm guessing you're bringing this up now because the eejit in Texas, Lt. Gov. Patrick, is blaming the surge there on black people, a particularly strange assertion in a state where less than half of the white people have received even a single dose and where, until recently, they'd been blaming it on illegal immigrants.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, while black people are lagging a little behind white people in vaccination rates, a higher proportion of white people say they definitely will not get the vaccine. And given that white people account for 57% of the unvaccinated, its a little disingenuous to try to lay the blame for the current surge on black people.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/ (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)

Mixed messaging doesn't help, for sure, but things change so rapidly with Covid, sometimes there's not much can be done. Politicians will always want to paint the best or worst picture, depending on whether they're in power or not. Public health officials and agencies often have to wait and see what happens with the trends before they can issue educated, properly informed advice or analysis. Federal officials are looking at the whole picture. Mayors are concerned that parents are flipping out because another surge is growing just as they were about to roll out the plans to bring local kids back to school.

"Cover up is probably wrong way to say it the investigation of a none event showed up nothing only maybe a few FBI agents were at it ."

I'm assuming this refers to the Michigan kidnappinig case. What has that got to do with Jan 6 which you claimed yesterday was cover up and fake?

Afghanistan - the botched withdrawal is on Biden and his team. The Taliban taking over the country was a predetermined outcome. That aside, you seem to be under the impression that this operation was comparable to a dementia case wandering down to the supermarket and getting lost or forgetting who he was, as if Joe was at the controls of each and every thing that took place. As if the main factor at play here is Biden's cognitive abilities, and not the giant political, intelligence and military apparatus that has to function capably to get things done at this scale. The (presumably) intelligence and/or political failures will be investigated. I seriously doubt that Biden's cognitive abilities will be found to have any bearing whatsoever on what happened.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 23, 2021, 01:08:52 PM
Tony has waded in....

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/afghanistan-tony-blair-slams-imbecilic-military-pullout-and-says-crisis-risks-relegating-uk-to-second-division-of-global-powers-12387017 (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/afghanistan-tony-blair-slams-imbecilic-military-pullout-and-says-crisis-risks-relegating-uk-to-second-division-of-global-powers-12387017)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 01:32:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 23, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered

The withdrawal debacle is all on Joe....100%!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/biden-wanted-to-leave-afghanistan-he-knew-the-risks-11629214842

"WASHINGTON—In his Monday speech defending America's chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, President Biden said he would not shrink from his share of responsibility.

That would include his decision to bring home U.S. troops, which was made against the recommendations of his top military generals and many diplomats, who warned that a hasty withdrawal would undermine security in Afghanistan, several administration and defense officials said."

So which president would have not had a withdrawal disaster? Korea and Vietnam I'd say weren't great withdrawal's, and no doubt whoever overseen that was a total tool also. 

There is no easy withdrawal from those places, the wisest thing to do is not enter them in the first place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered
the disaster of a withdrawal is all on him, well that's what he says
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 03:44:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered
the disaster of a withdrawal is all on him, well that's what he says

Did he say it is all on him or that he wouldnt shrink from his share of responsibility?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 03:48:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 03:44:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered
the disaster of a withdrawal is all on him, well that's what he says

Did he say it is all on him or that he wouldnt shrink from his share of responsibility?
he said the buck stops with him . Then blamed everyone he could think of .
What sane president leaves thousands of us citizens behind enemy lines and has to ask a terrorist organization to help them .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 03:48:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 03:44:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered
the disaster of a withdrawal is all on him, well that's what he says

Did he say it is all on him or that he wouldnt shrink from his share of responsibility?
he said the buck stops with him . Then blamed everyone he could think of .
What sane president leaves thousands of us citizens behind enemy lines and has to ask a terrorist organization to help them .

So should they stay? Lets have more bloodshed, more carnage more occupation. I don't know what you want but either way this is a shit storm no matter what call is made and by who. I love the way the brits are blaming the US for leaving, and the minute they said they were the Afghan security burnt their uniforms and headed back to their villages. More backbone in a jellyfish
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on August 24, 2021, 06:12:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 03:48:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 03:44:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered
the disaster of a withdrawal is all on him, well that's what he says

Did he say it is all on him or that he wouldnt shrink from his share of responsibility?
he said the buck stops with him . Then blamed everyone he could think of .
What sane president leaves thousands of us citizens behind enemy lines and has to ask a terrorist organization to help them .

So should they stay? Lets have more bloodshed, more carnage more occupation. I don't know what you want but either way this is a shit storm no matter what call is made and by who. I love the way the brits are blaming the US for leaving, and the minute they said they were the Afghan security burnt their uniforms and headed back to their villages. More backbone in a jellyfish

I'm a Joe supporter, voted for him, but the execution of the withdrawal is all on him.

FFS, there is a fighting season in Afghanistan, and a winter season when nothing happens. Why not delay the withdrawal till the winter, then take 6 months to make sure everyone is out. The Democrats are scoring own goals, first the border, when they were not prepared for the surge, and now the withdrawal, where they were clearly not prepared. They can't have another f**k up. 2024 election is not that far away and they need to stop giving the republicans easy ammunition 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 24, 2021, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 09:02:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 06:09:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 22, 2021, 05:48:53 PM
Complete disaster in Afghanistan
Southern border another disaster
Inflation
Cutting our own energy supply
Covid still rampant
Jan 6 another cover up
Like they used to say for four years it's only 10am on Sunday impeach this clown

Jan 6 cover-up? Pease do tell us more you f**king clown.

More of the energy supply bullshit which I showed to be pure nonsense the other week?

Inflation? What does Biden do about the computer chips and the surge in second hand car demand? The increased demand for hotel rooms as people travel more internally? The global supply chain issues combined with increased demand driving shortages in things like furniture?

Covid ?  Are you f**king serious? The absolute gall of you; you were on here spreading moronic, half-baked misinformation a couple of weeks ago, nonsense you no doubt picked up from right media and politicians. The same kind of shite that's lengthening the pandemic.
jan 6 might be hitting to close to home same with fake Michigan gov kidnapping.
I said something about pcr tests that has nothing to do with covid still being rampant.
A clown would be someone who can't see joe Biden is unfortunately cognitively challenged or is is still gaffes ? The gaffes are starting to cost tens of thousands of lives.

Ok, I'll play along, one last time.


Really!!  Will this be the last time or maybe this will be the last time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 10:53:10 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on August 24, 2021, 06:12:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 03:48:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 03:44:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered
the disaster of a withdrawal is all on him, well that's what he says

Did he say it is all on him or that he wouldnt shrink from his share of responsibility?
he said the buck stops with him . Then blamed everyone he could think of .
What sane president leaves thousands of us citizens behind enemy lines and has to ask a terrorist organization to help them .

So should they stay? Lets have more bloodshed, more carnage more occupation. I don't know what you want but either way this is a shit storm no matter what call is made and by who. I love the way the brits are blaming the US for leaving, and the minute they said they were the Afghan security burnt their uniforms and headed back to their villages. More backbone in a jellyfish

I'm a Joe supporter, voted for him, but the execution of the withdrawal is all on him.

FFS, there is a fighting season in Afghanistan, and a winter season when nothing happens. Why not delay the withdrawal till the winter, then take 6 months to make sure everyone is out. The Democrats are scoring own goals, first the border, when they were not prepared for the surge, and now the withdrawal, where they were clearly not prepared. They can't have another f**k up. 2024 election is not that far away and they need to stop giving the republicans easy ammunition

If the evacuation is in six months you'll still have a Taliban government with 38 million people still living there, would it not be better to legitimatise them and give them recognition and work with them to help stabilise things long term?

It will take a lot longer and the blood letting will continue for a while, as it does in all civil upheavals but to use embargoes will only hurt those that need it and that seems to be a way they want to go!

I said it's a shit storm, but six months down the line there'd still be people waiting/wanting to get out. I've no interest in American politics, they seem worse than ours and that takes some doing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 25, 2021, 09:13:43 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on August 24, 2021, 06:12:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 03:48:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 03:44:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered
the disaster of a withdrawal is all on him, well that's what he says

Did he say it is all on him or that he wouldnt shrink from his share of responsibility?
he said the buck stops with him . Then blamed everyone he could think of .
What sane president leaves thousands of us citizens behind enemy lines and has to ask a terrorist organization to help them .

So should they stay? Lets have more bloodshed, more carnage more occupation. I don't know what you want but either way this is a shit storm no matter what call is made and by who. I love the way the brits are blaming the US for leaving, and the minute they said they were the Afghan security burnt their uniforms and headed back to their villages. More backbone in a jellyfish

I'm a Joe supporter, voted for him, but the execution of the withdrawal is all on him.

FFS, there is a fighting season in Afghanistan, and a winter season when nothing happens. Why not delay the withdrawal till the winter, then take 6 months to make sure everyone is out. The Democrats are scoring own goals, first the border, when they were not prepared for the surge, and now the withdrawal, where they were clearly not prepared. They can't have another f**k up. 2024 election is not that far away and they need to stop giving the republicans easy ammunition
That's the decision Pompeo made IIRC was to withdraw in May 2021 when he agreed for the US to leave with their tales between their legs.
With only a bare bones force of 2500 US troops left Biden was in no position to do anything about this agreement and yes, he's handled it badly but evidently knows it won't hurt him at home for any great length of time.
There'll be zero fúcks given for Afghanistan once there's no political mileage from it in a few months time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 25, 2021, 10:59:40 AM
The Yanks spent $2.6 trillion in Afghanistan. None of this made its way down to village level. They proppsed up a corrupt Government.
They dug their own grave.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 25, 2021, 12:06:57 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 25, 2021, 09:13:43 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on August 24, 2021, 06:12:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 03:48:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 03:44:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2021, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered
the disaster of a withdrawal is all on him, well that's what he says

Did he say it is all on him or that he wouldnt shrink from his share of responsibility?
he said the buck stops with him . Then blamed everyone he could think of .
What sane president leaves thousands of us citizens behind enemy lines and has to ask a terrorist organization to help them .

So should they stay? Lets have more bloodshed, more carnage more occupation. I don't know what you want but either way this is a shit storm no matter what call is made and by who. I love the way the brits are blaming the US for leaving, and the minute they said they were the Afghan security burnt their uniforms and headed back to their villages. More backbone in a jellyfish

I'm a Joe supporter, voted for him, but the execution of the withdrawal is all on him.

FFS, there is a fighting season in Afghanistan, and a winter season when nothing happens. Why not delay the withdrawal till the winter, then take 6 months to make sure everyone is out. The Democrats are scoring own goals, first the border, when they were not prepared for the surge, and now the withdrawal, where they were clearly not prepared. They can't have another f**k up. 2024 election is not that far away and they need to stop giving the republicans easy ammunition
That's the decision Pompeo made IIRC was to withdraw in May 2021 when he agreed for the US to leave with their tales between their legs.
With only a bare bones force of 2500 US troops left Biden was in no position to do anything about this agreement and yes, he's handled it badly but evidently knows it won't hurt him at home for any great length of time.
There'll be zero fúcks given for Afghanistan once there's no political mileage from it in a few months time.

Believe whatever you want, but it is now clear he ignored the advice of his top generals and aides

This debacle is 100% his fault

He wanted a photo op for the 20th anniversary of 9/11 and now he's gotten one

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 25, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1430470041015816202 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1430470041015816202)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 26, 2021, 04:39:53 PM
Has joe Biden resigned yet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 05:07:47 PM
Who really cares? Like really? In the west who gives one f**k?

Biden is doing the right thing albeit poorly. Get out. We in the west having nothing in common with these places or these wacky Islamic groups. The religion is foreign and crazy. Incompatible with how we want to live our lives. We don't understand the tribal nature of the groups. The role of the man and the woman. They're 100s of years behind us in terms of rights for woman, children etc. Cut and run. Contain these groups. Keep them penned into this region and forget about them. The US nor any other country can defeat them. It's a waste of time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 26, 2021, 05:27:51 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 05:07:47 PM
Who really cares? Like really? In the west who gives one f**k?

Biden is doing the right thing albeit poorly. Get out. We in the west having nothing in common with these places or these wacky Islamic groups. The religion is foreign and crazy. Incompatible with how we want to live our lives. We don't understand the tribal nature of the groups. The role of the man and the woman. They're 100s of years behind us in terms of rights for woman, children etc. Cut and run. Contain these groups. Keep them penned into this region and forget about them. The US nor any other country can defeat them. It's a waste of time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 26, 2021, 07:32:38 PM
Horrible scenes today 60 dead including 10 marines. Heads need to roll it just hasn't been good enough from start to finish and it's not finished by a long way!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 26, 2021, 09:23:21 PM
We all know who's head needs to roll. It will never happen though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2021, 09:34:17 PM
They were talking about an attack at the airport yesterday, the chatter they had picked up gave them all they needed to know.

Horrible
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 26, 2021, 09:46:03 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1430972296311840773?s=21 (https://mobile.twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1430972296311840773?s=21)

This is wild.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 26, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
I'm confused they seem to be saying ISIS carried out these attacks today but I definitely remember hearing they were defeated... more than once actually how can this be possible??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 26, 2021, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 26, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
I'm confused they seem to be saying ISIS carried out these attacks today but I definitely remember hearing they were defeated... more than once actually how can this be possible??
they came back into existence January 20 2021
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 27, 2021, 03:02:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 26, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
I'm confused they seem to be saying ISIS carried out these attacks today but I definitely remember hearing they were defeated... more than once actually how can this be possible??

How do you defeat an idea or ethos held by irrational, fanatical zealots. It's not like you can reason them out of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 27, 2021, 03:05:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 26, 2021, 09:46:03 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1430972296311840773?s=21 (https://mobile.twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1430972296311840773?s=21)

This is wild.

It is. An utter clusterfuck.

And if the arms had NOT been sent to the Afghan military and security forces in the first place, the gutless turd that is Kevin McCarthy would be blaming THAT for their immediate folding in the face of the Taliban.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 27, 2021, 04:08:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 27, 2021, 03:05:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 26, 2021, 09:46:03 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1430972296311840773?s=21 (https://mobile.twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1430972296311840773?s=21)

This is wild.

It is. An utter clusterfuck.

And if the arms had NOT been sent to the Afghan military and security forces in the first place, the gutless turd that is Kevin McCarthy would be blaming THAT for their immediate folding in the face of the Taliban.
ah it's all mccarthy's fault.
I feel sorry for joe Biden his family and friends should have protected him, he should be retired and enjoying the rest of his time .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
Taken from twitter

(https://i.ibb.co/wcMJdgV/IMG-20210826-WA0038.jpg)

He's the president america deserves, but not the one it needs right now

BTW I don't have a horse in this race, I just thought this was funny before the usual suspects jump on me and call me a fascist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on August 27, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
Taken from twitter

(https://i.ibb.co/wcMJdgV/IMG-20210826-WA0038.jpg)

He's the president america deserves, but not the one it needs right now

BTW I don't have a horse in this race, I just thought this was funny before the usual suspects jump on me and call me a fascist.

;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 27, 2021, 12:48:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 27, 2021, 04:08:24 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 27, 2021, 03:05:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 26, 2021, 09:46:03 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1430972296311840773?s=21 (https://mobile.twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1430972296311840773?s=21)

This is wild.

It is. An utter clusterfuck.

And if the arms had NOT been sent to the Afghan military and security forces in the first place, the gutless turd that is Kevin McCarthy would be blaming THAT for their immediate folding in the face of the Taliban.
ah it's all mccarthy's fault.
I feel sorry for joe Biden his family and friends should have protected him, he should be retired and enjoying the rest of his time .

Where did I say it was McCarthy's fault?

RedHand posted a video of McCarthy making a big political show of the weapons that ended up with the Taliban.

My point, which apparently needs to be spelled out in tiny words in crayon for you, is that McCarthy, the craven, spineless, unprincipled minion that he is, would be making an equally big show of the issue if NO support in the form of supplies and weapons had been given to the Afghan forces to ostensibly help them stand their ground.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 27, 2021, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
Taken from twitter

(https://i.ibb.co/wcMJdgV/IMG-20210826-WA0038.jpg)

He's the president america deserves, but not the one it needs right now

BTW I don't have a horse in this race, I just thought this was funny before the usual suspects jump on me and call me a fascist.

You've been called a fascist here?

Given that Trump set the whole thing up and as recently as a couple of months ago was making a big public deal of how Biden was way too slow in getting out of Afghanistan, you'd have to wonder what rock someone who really thinks Trump would be doing a better job has been living under for the past five years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 27, 2021, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
Taken from twitter

(https://i.ibb.co/wcMJdgV/IMG-20210826-WA0038.jpg)

He's the president america deserves, but not the one it needs right now

BTW I don't have a horse in this race, I just thought this was funny before the usual suspects jump on me and call me a fascist.

You've been called a fascist here?

Given that Trump set the whole thing up and as recently as a couple of months ago was making a big public deal of how Biden was way too slow in getting out of Afghanistan, you'd have to wonder what rock someone who really thinks Trump would be doing a better job has been living under for the past five years.

Yes, I have. All because I had reservations about Biden and that the "anybody but Trump" brigade should be careful. Feeling vindicated now.

Blaming Trump is completely missing the point. Its deflection from the real problem. Trump was right about withdrawing, Biden was right about withdrawing. Its the way it was actually carried out that is the issue. The Biden administration massively massively underestimated the Taliban and it has resulted in catastrophe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 27, 2021, 01:14:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 27, 2021, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
Taken from twitter

(https://i.ibb.co/wcMJdgV/IMG-20210826-WA0038.jpg)

He's the president america deserves, but not the one it needs right now

BTW I don't have a horse in this race, I just thought this was funny before the usual suspects jump on me and call me a fascist.

You've been called a fascist here?

Given that Trump set the whole thing up and as recently as a couple of months ago was making a big public deal of how Biden was way too slow in getting out of Afghanistan, you'd have to wonder what rock someone who really thinks Trump would be doing a better job has been living under for the past five years.

Yes, I have. All because I had reservations about Biden and that the "anybody but Trump" brigade should be careful. Feeling vindicated now.

Blaming Trump is completely missing the point. Its deflection from the real problem. Trump was right about withdrawing, Biden was right about withdrawing. Its the way it was actually carried out that is the issue. The Biden administration massively massively underestimated the Taliban and it has resulted in catastrophe.

https://www.newsweek.com/clip-biden-saying-people-wont-lifted-off-embassy-roof-afghanistan-resurfaces-just-that-happens-1619517

On July 8, Biden discussed the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan, swatting back concerns that a Taliban takeover of the country would be "inevitable." The president explicitly said that Americans would not see images reminiscent of the U.S. evacuation from Vietnam at the end of that war in 1975—when photos of helicopters evacuating people from the roof of the U.S. embassy in Saigon were widely circulated in the media.

"The Taliban is not the south—the North Vietnamese army. They're not—they're not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There's going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the—of the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable," Biden insisted during a July 8 press conference.

My biggest fear about Trump is that he would not listen to the advice of experts and get us into a situation like this

By all accounts Joe is the one that didn't listen to advice from the generals on the ground and ploughing ahead

I mean, FFS leaving 180 Blackhawk helicopters in the talibans hands......one man could have destroyed all 180 in about an hour with 180 grenades.

This is 100% on Joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Cobra on August 27, 2021, 01:46:46 PM
Read this on the BBC website

A young female journalist says she, her mother, seven brothers and three sisters have been abandoned by her father, who was evacuated from Afghanistan with his second wife.

Zalash, not her real name, says she has been told by the Taliban that if she returns to her job as a journalist she will be killed.

She told BBC 5 Live she and her family were in temporary accommodation and feared for their lives.

"I want to try to save my family's life. It is heart-breaking for me. They want to go to university and school. We are so poor. We have one pen and the whole family is using it for schoolwork," she said.

Zalash, 18, said the family had been told by her father to go to the airport, and they waited for him for nearly 24 hours.

"We had a hard time. We didn't sleep. We stayed in the hot sun. The place was very dirty," she said.

"Then the troops told us my father didn't want us to go on the plane. He took his other wife and family. He said if we didn't leave he would slap me.

"We are left with tears and broken hearts. Our only hope is God."

It's pretty clear these people are a world away from us. Their crazy fanatical Islamic religion. Multiple wives. Many sons and daughters. This isn't a faith or culture that is compatible with western life. The west shouldn't be there. Lessons must be learned. Let them eat themselves. They cannot be helped. They are a lost cause.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 27, 2021, 06:19:18 PM
The taliban were asked and are providing security for the USA in Kabul and the administration gave all the names and addresses of us citizens and allies who are still there  to them , that is all you need to know about how over their heads these clowns are .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 27, 2021, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 27, 2021, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
Taken from twitter

(https://i.ibb.co/wcMJdgV/IMG-20210826-WA0038.jpg)

He's the president america deserves, but not the one it needs right now

BTW I don't have a horse in this race, I just thought this was funny before the usual suspects jump on me and call me a fascist.

You've been called a fascist here?

Given that Trump set the whole thing up and as recently as a couple of months ago was making a big public deal of how Biden was way too slow in getting out of Afghanistan, you'd have to wonder what rock someone who really thinks Trump would be doing a better job has been living under for the past five years.

Yes, I have. All because I had reservations about Biden and that the "anybody but Trump" brigade should be careful. Feeling vindicated now.

Blaming Trump is completely missing the point. Its deflection from the real problem. Trump was right about withdrawing, Biden was right about withdrawing. Its the way it was actually carried out that is the issue. The Biden administration massively massively underestimated the Taliban and it has resulted in catastrophe.

How can anyone underestimate the Taliban? They've defeated the Russians and now NATO, even Rambo joined them (when it was ok) maybe the key here was not just saying they were leaving but also the Afghan security lads saying f**k this malarkey
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 28, 2021, 12:43:27 AM
I read that the bould Rudi has put his foot in mouth again. Answering questions about his drinking problem. "It's extremely insulting. There's no proof of any kind that I take too much alcohol. That's ridiculous." :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 28, 2021, 04:53:25 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 27, 2021, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 27, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
Taken from twitter

(https://i.ibb.co/wcMJdgV/IMG-20210826-WA0038.jpg)

He's the president america deserves, but not the one it needs right now

BTW I don't have a horse in this race, I just thought this was funny before the usual suspects jump on me and call me a fascist.

You've been called a fascist here?

Given that Trump set the whole thing up and as recently as a couple of months ago was making a big public deal of how Biden was way too slow in getting out of Afghanistan, you'd have to wonder what rock someone who really thinks Trump would be doing a better job has been living under for the past five years.

Yes, I have. All because I had reservations about Biden and that the "anybody but Trump" brigade should be careful. Feeling vindicated now.

Blaming Trump is completely missing the point. Its deflection from the real problem. Trump was right about withdrawing, Biden was right about withdrawing. Its the way it was actually carried out that is the issue. The Biden administration massively massively underestimated the Taliban and it has resulted in catastrophe.

Where did I blame Trump?

I questioned what basis there is for the notion or even presumption that the withdrawal would have gone any better under Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 28, 2021, 11:22:12 AM
There's plenty of blame to go around

John Bolton has now come out and blamed Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 28, 2021, 05:45:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2021, 11:22:12 AM
There's plenty of blame to go around

John Bolton has now come out and blamed Trump
that's probably why he's on cnn now . Bolton would like the US fighting permanently in the Middle East .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 30, 2021, 05:45:36 AM
Where was your condemnation when the previous fella was airstriking the fuck out of the place killing scores of children?

QuoteIn January of 2019, a strike in Helmand killed ten children.
Two months later and hundreds of miles away in Nangarhar, ten young cousins lost their lives.
The pattern continues: in July of that year, a farmer in Baghlan lost his wife and six children.

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2020-06-03/the-families-paying-the-price-for-the-war-in-afghanistan

Spare me your faux-outrage bollocks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 30, 2021, 06:29:05 AM
Why do you bother your arse responding to GMAC? He is disingenuous, misinformed and comes from Queen's County.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 30, 2021, 08:18:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2021, 11:22:12 AM
There's plenty of blame to go around

John Bolton has now come out and blamed Trump


   
   https://www.ft.com/content/5a35e66f-ccf1-4625-a248-3c425b77a4e8#comments-anchor

   Since at least 2014, the role of US forces there, who by 2020 numbered only 2,500, was simply to act as a backstop for the Afghan forces, not to nation build. With that relatively modest military commitment acting as a keystone, the Afghan army had been able to contain a well organised and well-funded Islamist insurgency.

The goal was that the military stalemate should lead to a peace deal. But why would the Taliban have ever agreed to that when the US was adamant that it would leave on August 31, come what may? We know now that Biden's timing was driven not by conditions on the ground, but by the terms of President Trump's February 2020 deal with the Taliban, which he modified and implemented. That resulted in an unnecessary cliff-edge type withdrawal, and the shambolic exit which has culminated in the chaos at Kabul airport.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 30, 2021, 08:23:18 AM
The Afghanistan clusterfuck is a great example of this :

.https://www.ft.com/content/3749175a-4c17-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
More broadly, Trump['s short-term transactionalism and willingness to use all available instruments of US power creates an unstable and unpredictable world not just for governments, but also for businesses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 30, 2021, 07:07:56 PM
I think Biden and the US army have adjusted to the radically changed circumstances and managed the exodus with a stubborn dedication and efficiency. For the most part the Taliban have kept to the plan, no USA citizens were killed by them and some 100,000 Afghani 'collaborators' were allowed to leave in peace via the airport in a matter of days. Except for that one horrible incident, the Taliban ensured the  entry to the airport was kept safe from attack amidst the total chaos of thousands of Afghani civilians wanting to flee. The USA had lost the war and wanted to exit, Trump's administration negotiated the terms of the surrender and Biden was completely ok with those terms. I didn't think Biden had the guts to hold his ground on principle against a concerted mass media campaign of disapproval. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 11:46:23 PM
Leaving hundreds of American citizens behind enemy lines to fend for themselves is not success.
Biden is  a mumbling moron who should be in a retirement home .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 30, 2021, 11:50:07 PM
too easy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 11:53:02 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 30, 2021, 11:50:07 PM
too easy
just make sure you vote yes on recall good boy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 31, 2021, 12:36:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 11:46:23 PM
Leaving hundreds of American citizens behind enemy lines to fend for themselves is not success.
Biden is  a mumbling moron who should be in a retirement home .

How many are left?

What is their status?

Are they staying by choice? Are they dual citizens?

Evidently you know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 31, 2021, 01:38:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2021, 12:36:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 11:46:23 PM
Leaving hundreds of American citizens behind enemy lines to fend for themselves is not success.
Biden is  a mumbling moron who should be in a retirement home .

How many are left?

What is their status?

Are they staying by choice? Are they dual citizens?

Evidently you know.
I know as much as that moron in the white house.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 31, 2021, 03:45:47 PM
According to Reuters (possibly a bastion of fake news)
'More than 114,000 people have been airlifted from Kabul airport in the past two weeks as part of the U.S. effort.  including 5,500 U.S. citizens. A small number of American citizens have chosen to continue to stay in Afghanistan, many of them so they can be with family members.

The Taliban have both communicated privately and publicly that they will allow for safe passage',
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I see the mother of one of the dead Marines had her Instagram account deleted "accidentally" due to her criticism of the President

WOW!!!!!


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/facebook-apologizes-mom-slain-marine-kareem-nikoui-deleting-instagram-account-1624718%3famp=1

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 01, 2021, 05:30:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I see the mother of one of the dead Marines had her Instagram account deleted "accidentally" due to her criticism of the President

WOW!!!!!


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/facebook-apologizes-mom-slain-marine-kareem-nikoui-deleting-instagram-account-1624718%3famp=1

"WOW!!!!!" ??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:41:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2021, 05:30:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I see the mother of one of the dead Marines had her Instagram account deleted "accidentally" due to her criticism of the President

WOW!!!!!


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/facebook-apologizes-mom-slain-marine-kareem-nikoui-deleting-instagram-account-1624718%3famp=1

"WOW!!!!!" ??

You're not outraged that big tech silenced the mother of a dead Marine for criticizing the President?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 01, 2021, 05:52:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:41:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2021, 05:30:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I see the mother of one of the dead Marines had her Instagram account deleted "accidentally" due to her criticism of the President

WOW!!!!!


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/facebook-apologizes-mom-slain-marine-kareem-nikoui-deleting-instagram-account-1624718%3famp=1

"WOW!!!!!" ??

You're not outraged that big tech silenced the mother of a dead Marine for criticizing the President?

Outraged?

Without knowing what actually happened, no, I'm not. Are you?

Have other posts or memes or critics of Biden been silenced? Is there a campaign or policy? Or was this the work or error of a single screener?

Because I've been seeing plenty of insane, clueless, deranged nonsense on Afghanistan, Covid and all kinds of other issues from some right wing relatives on FB and Instagram.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:56:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2021, 05:52:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:41:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2021, 05:30:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I see the mother of one of the dead Marines had her Instagram account deleted "accidentally" due to her criticism of the President

WOW!!!!!


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/facebook-apologizes-mom-slain-marine-kareem-nikoui-deleting-instagram-account-1624718%3famp=1

"WOW!!!!!" ??

You're not outraged that big tech silenced the mother of a dead Marine for criticizing the President?

Outraged?

Without knowing what actually happened, no, I'm not. Are you?

Have other posts or memes or critics of Biden been silenced? Is there a campaign or policy? Or was this the work or error of a single screener?

Because I've been seeing plenty of insane, clueless, deranged nonsense on Afghanistan, Covid and all kinds of other issues from some right wing relatives on FB and Instagram.

Yes-I'm completely outraged

Zuckerberg should be hauled in and have to explain explain exactly what happened and what sanctions have being imposed on the person who took it upon themselves to do this

They have already admitted it was an "error" and have restored her account
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 01, 2021, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:56:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2021, 05:52:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:41:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2021, 05:30:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 01, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I see the mother of one of the dead Marines had her Instagram account deleted "accidentally" due to her criticism of the President

WOW!!!!!


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/facebook-apologizes-mom-slain-marine-kareem-nikoui-deleting-instagram-account-1624718%3famp=1

"WOW!!!!!" ??

You're not outraged that big tech silenced the mother of a dead Marine for criticizing the President?

Outraged?

Without knowing what actually happened, no, I'm not. Are you?

Have other posts or memes or critics of Biden been silenced? Is there a campaign or policy? Or was this the work or error of a single screener?

Because I've been seeing plenty of insane, clueless, deranged nonsense on Afghanistan, Covid and all kinds of other issues from some right wing relatives on FB and Instagram.

Yes-I'm completely outraged

Zuckerberg should be hauled in and have to explain explain exactly what happened and what sanctions have being imposed on the person who took it upon themselves to do this

They have already admitted it was an "error" and have restored her account

Jesus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 02, 2021, 10:46:28 PM
Did the conservatives just quietly kill Roe v Wade?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:31:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 02, 2021, 10:46:28 PM
Did the conservatives just quietly kill Roe v Wade?

Pretty much.

We'll see now where the country is at now that abortion is going to be criminalized, with private citizens surveilling and suing women.

The GOP used it as a consequence-free way to drum up support for decades. If the support is out there for at least a moderate level of abortion rights, they might wish they'd left things as they were.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 03, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 03, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 03, 2021, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU
at another time in another type of format she would probably say that men can get pregnant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2021, 11:54:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2021, 11:55:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:31:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 02, 2021, 10:46:28 PM
Did the conservatives just quietly kill Roe v Wade?

Pretty much.

We'll see now where the country is at now that abortion is going to be criminalized, with private citizens surveilling and suing women.

The GOP used it as a consequence-free way to drum up support for decades. If the support is out there for at least a moderate level of abortion rights, they might wish they'd left things as they were.

I might just write to my California state assembly member and ask if we can get a bill in California that puts a $10,000 bounty on anyone who owns a gun. We'll soon see how long the Supreme Court allows this kind of vigilante's charter to stand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:14:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2021, 11:54:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2021, 10:56:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:14:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2021, 11:54:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won't even know they're pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell......they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on September 07, 2021, 12:26:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2021, 10:56:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:14:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2021, 11:54:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won't even know they're pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell......they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)
The medics have already come to an agreement as to what the safety limits are, they're the one qualified. After that it's the mother's right to choose and the medic to inform the mother about those choices.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 07, 2021, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: Main Street on September 07, 2021, 12:26:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2021, 10:56:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:14:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2021, 11:54:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won't even know they're pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell......they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)
The medics have already come to an agreement as to what the safety limits are, they're the one qualified. After that it's the mother's right to choose and the medic to inform the mother about those choices.

Fair enough......no limits up to and including due date (as long as it's signed off on by a doctor)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 07, 2021, 07:41:22 AM
My wife is 39 weeks pregnant right now. The baby has been visibly moving about, kicking etc since 20 odd weeks. It reacts to the torch on a phone and has done for several months now. We have a photo of it at 12 weeks sucking its thumb.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 07, 2021, 12:58:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 07, 2021, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: Main Street on September 07, 2021, 12:26:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2021, 10:56:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:14:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 05, 2021, 11:54:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won't even know they're pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell......they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)
The medics have already come to an agreement as to what the safety limits are, they're the one qualified. After that it's the mother's right to choose and the medic to inform the mother about those choices.

Fair enough......no limits up to and including due date (as long as it's signed off on by a doctor)

Are there a lot of doctors signing off on killing near- or full-term or even third semester babies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 07, 2021, 02:24:33 PM
No idea

But that's an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 07, 2021, 05:29:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 07, 2021, 02:24:33 PM
No idea

But that's an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few zealots out there who believe that, but surely its not mainstream by any stretch?

And I would expect that any doctor making such a call would have to seriously justify their decision.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 07, 2021, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 07, 2021, 07:41:22 AM
My wife is 39 weeks pregnant right now. The baby has been visibly moving about, kicking etc since 20 odd weeks. It reacts to the torch on a phone and has done for several months now. We have a photo of it at 12 weeks sucking its thumb.

You're just about there then so.

Good luck, especially if its your first. Life will never be the same, in the best possible way!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 07, 2021, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 07, 2021, 05:29:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 07, 2021, 02:24:33 PM
No idea

But that's an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few zealots out there who believe that, but surely its not mainstream by any stretch?

And I would expect that any doctor making such a call would have to seriously justify their decision.


Well if you have Downs Syndrome I guess you're out of luck

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/

Funny thing is, here in Massachusetts you could go 2 or 3 years without seeing any DS people. Last time I was home, I saw 3 the first day

Anyway happens when they discover a prenatal test for Autism-should those kids be taken out as well?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 07, 2021, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 07, 2021, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 07, 2021, 05:29:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 07, 2021, 02:24:33 PM
No idea

But that's an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few zealots out there who believe that, but surely its not mainstream by any stretch?

And I would expect that any doctor making such a call would have to seriously justify their decision.


Well if you have Downs Syndrome I guess you're out of luck

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/

Funny thing is, here in Massachusetts you could go 2 or 3 years without seeing any DS people. Last time I was home, I saw 3 the first day

Anyway happens when they discover a prenatal test for Autism-should those kids be taken out as well?

No argument from me there. Aborting a child due to Down Syndrome or autism or any such condition is fucked up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 08, 2021, 05:07:04 AM
a fitting tribute to 9/11

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-us5xvXIAgJ16h?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each other's throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which he's now trying to put in rear view mirror .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 08:06:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 08, 2021, 05:07:04 AM
a fitting tribute to 9/11

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-us5xvXIAgJ16h?format=jpg&name=small)
they wanted joe but it starts at 7-30 so way past his bedtime
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 09, 2021, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each other's throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which he's now trying to put in rear view mirror .

It's good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasn't dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. It's not Biden's fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 09:41:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 09, 2021, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each other's throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which he's now trying to put in rear view mirror .

It's good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasn't dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. It's not Biden's fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.
doubt either of those things happened the scum in Los Angeles
Refresh my memory but didn't Trump help with the vaccines and there speedy arrival?
He just said last week at a rally to take the vaccine , mandates are different though and lots of people from all walks of life are against them , Joe thinks he's sticking it to rednecks and Trump supporters but he's really sticking it to black and Latino people . But you get who you vote for .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 09, 2021, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 09:41:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 09, 2021, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each other's throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which he's now trying to put in rear view mirror .

It's good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasn't dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. It's not Biden's fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.
doubt either of those things happened the scum in Los Angeles
Refresh my memory but didn't Trump help with the vaccines and there speedy arrival?
He just said last week at a rally to take the vaccine , mandates are different though and lots of people from all walks of life are against them , Joe thinks he's sticking it to rednecks and Trump supporters but he's really sticking it to black and Latino people . But you get who you vote for .

Trump is afraid to forcefully endorse the vaccine and you know it. This is a bellicose man who insults and lies constantly in his own perceived interest, but he's like a scared little lamb when it comes to his lunatic base.

Biden is perfectly in line with mainstream science and the Democratic Party. It's going to take mandates in the US because of the irrational reluctance in some quarters, some of it of longstanding  cultural origin, some of it purely political.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 10, 2021, 01:40:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 09, 2021, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 09:41:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 09, 2021, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each other's throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which he's now trying to put in rear view mirror .

It's good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasn't dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. It's not Biden's fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.
doubt either of those things happened the scum in Los Angeles
Refresh my memory but didn't Trump help with the vaccines and there speedy arrival?
He just said last week at a rally to take the vaccine , mandates are different though and lots of people from all walks of life are against them , Joe thinks he's sticking it to rednecks and Trump supporters but he's really sticking it to black and Latino people . But you get who you vote for .

Trump is afraid to forcefully endorse the vaccine and you know it. This is a bellicose man who insults and lies constantly in his own perceived interest, but he's like a scared little lamb when it comes to his lunatic base.

Biden is perfectly in line with mainstream science and the Democratic Party. It's going to take mandates in the US because of the irrational reluctance in some quarters, some of it of longstanding  cultural origin, some of it purely political.

Don't know who's advising Joe but they need their heads examined

While a lot of conservatives are against getting vaccinated so are a lot of African Americans

He's ticking off a lot of his own voters (and I don't know if it's either constitutional or enforceable)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2021, 05:55:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 10, 2021, 01:40:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 09, 2021, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 09:41:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 09, 2021, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each other's throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which he's now trying to put in rear view mirror .

It's good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasn't dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. It's not Biden's fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.
doubt either of those things happened the scum in Los Angeles
Refresh my memory but didn't Trump help with the vaccines and there speedy arrival?
He just said last week at a rally to take the vaccine , mandates are different though and lots of people from all walks of life are against them , Joe thinks he's sticking it to rednecks and Trump supporters but he's really sticking it to black and Latino people . But you get who you vote for .

Trump is afraid to forcefully endorse the vaccine and you know it. This is a bellicose man who insults and lies constantly in his own perceived interest, but he's like a scared little lamb when it comes to his lunatic base.

Biden is perfectly in line with mainstream science and the Democratic Party. It's going to take mandates in the US because of the irrational reluctance in some quarters, some of it of longstanding  cultural origin, some of it purely political.

Don't know who's advising Joe but they need their heads examined

While a lot of conservatives are against getting vaccinated so are a lot of African Americans

He's ticking off a lot of his own voters (and I don't know if it's either constitutional or enforceable)

Supreme Court has okayed mandatory vaccinations before.

And it's standard stuff for a range of government-run operations at various levels.

Enforcement is a separate issue. When it comes to the federal workforce, they can obviously try to make it a condition of employment.

My employer tied it to workplace access; no vaccine, your ID is disabled and you don't get on site, which is a bit of an issue now that telework is ending for just about everyone who wasn't already back. Supposedly 99% of what is a large workforce are now in compliance. And that workforce includes a lot of black, Hispanic and conservative people. Anyone who got an exemption (religious or medical -genuine) has to mask everywhere and submit to weekly testing.

And yeah, it might well be ticking off some of Biden's own voters, but it's the right thing to do.

No doubt there have been, are and will be all kinds of lawsuits at all sorts of levels. But private employers and various levels of government are charging full steam ahead on this.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 10, 2021, 04:12:05 PM
A senile man shouting into the camera twice in 2 weeks .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 10, 2021, 06:07:39 PM
Trumps been on TV twice in the last 2 weeks?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 14, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
I see our great woke general Milley is a Chinese spy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 14, 2021, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 14, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
I see our great woke general Milley is a Chinese spy

Yes, THAT'S the take-home message from the story! ::) ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 14, 2021, 09:06:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 14, 2021, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 14, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
I see our great woke general Milley is a Chinese spy

Yes, THAT'S the take-home message from the story! ::) ;D
milley must be in charge now so if he's worried about the presidents mental state .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 15, 2021, 05:07:40 AM
$276m down the drain in California
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2021, 10:33:44 AM
A right wing MAGA Trumper can't win there, even with the ridiculous recall rules. You have to put up someone who has a chance of winning over the electorate.

That's why I've little patience for all the shit the likes of Joe Manchin has to take from the left.

If you don't like what he has to do to protect his seat in WV, good luck with his Trump replacement and Mitch McConnell back as Senate Majority Leader.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 15, 2021, 07:17:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 15, 2021, 05:07:40 AM
$276m down the drain in California

I'd like to say the taste of the conservative tears is worth it, but it isn't. I could have waited another year for the Rethuglicans to get another trouncing at the normal election time. This was the last gasp of the dying GOP in California. It was their last chance of stealing power in their present form. Only when they implode and return to reality based politics will they stand a chance of getting near a statewide office here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 15, 2021, 08:47:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 15, 2021, 07:17:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 15, 2021, 05:07:40 AM
$276m down the drain in California

I'd like to say the taste of the conservative tears is worth it, but it isn't. I could have waited another year for the Rethuglicans to get another trouncing at the normal election time. This was the last gasp of the dying GOP in California. It was their last chance of stealing power in their present form. Only when they implode and return to reality based politics will they stand a chance of getting near a statewide office here.
276m is what Gavin's edd gives to criminals in a week.
L
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2021, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 15, 2021, 07:17:36 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 15, 2021, 05:07:40 AM
$276m down the drain in California

I'd like to say the taste of the conservative tears is worth it, but it isn't. I could have waited another year for the Rethuglicans to get another trouncing at the normal election time. This was the last gasp of the dying GOP in California. It was their last chance of stealing power in their present form. Only when they implode and return to reality based politics will they stand a chance of getting near a statewide office here.

On the bright side, Elder is, so far, not following through on the Big Lie/voter fraud bullshit. Presumably the margin put paid to any such hopes.

Although I'm sure Sydney, Rudi and the rest of Elite Strike Force or whatever it was are waiting anxiously by the phone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 17, 2021, 11:04:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

If Trump was responsible for the drone strike we'd be looking at a war crimes trial
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 17, 2021, 11:04:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

If Trump was responsible for the drone strike we'd be looking at a war crimes trial
a lot of the media and dems were losing their minds when he took out solemani
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on September 18, 2021, 06:56:51 AM
The false equivocation to Trump actions and statements is par for the course.
But the glee from the Republicans when the US military make a tragic mistake is a very interesting phenomenon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 17, 2021, 11:04:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

If Trump was responsible for the drone strike we'd be looking at a war crimes trial

Right, because there were no errant drone strikes resulting in civilian deaths under Trump. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

Joe is responsible for the problems in Haiti, Brazil and Chile that are causing the current influx of Haitians to the border?

The FBI are going to cause the whack jobs to riot today?

You really are gullible and stupid as a plank with the right wing nonsense you spout. Next few days you'll resurrect the thread again to tell us that Arizona presidential election WAS stolen (I think the "report" is finally coming).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 12:04:41 PM
Quote from: Hound on September 18, 2021, 06:56:51 AM
The false equivocation to Trump actions and statements is par for the course.
But the glee from the Republicans when the US military make a tragic mistake is a very interesting phenomenon

There is simply no morality or empathy in the current guise of the Trump GOP, Fox News and the rest.

All that matters is them retaining power and owning the libs, who apparently are otherwise going to take "their" country away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 18, 2021, 12:06:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

Joe is responsible for the problems in Haiti, Brazil and Chile that are causing the current influx of Haitians to the border?

The FBI are going to cause the whack jobs to riot today?

You really are gullible and stupid as a plank with the right wing nonsense you spout. Next few days you'll resurrect the thread again to tell us that Arizona presidential election WAS stolen (I think the "report" is finally coming).

Did Trumps policies not act as a deterrent against all these people showing up at the border?

IIRC the Democrats fought him tooth and nail and never passed up the opportunity of a good photo op

Funny how we don't hear too much about kids in cages anymore
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 12:17:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 12:06:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

Joe is responsible for the problems in Haiti, Brazil and Chile that are causing the current influx of Haitians to the border?

The FBI are going to cause the whack jobs to riot today?

You really are gullible and stupid as a plank with the right wing nonsense you spout. Next few days you'll resurrect the thread again to tell us that Arizona presidential election WAS stolen (I think the "report" is finally coming).

Did Trumps policies not act as a deterrent against all these people showing up at the border?

IIRC the Democrats fought him tooth and nail and never passed up the opportunity of a good photo op

Funny how we don't hear too much about kids in cages anymore

Of course Trump's policies were a deterrent. Ripping kids from their parents and shipping them across the country was designed to do exactly that.

That doesn't make what he did any less monstrous. The Dems were absolutely right to fight him.

The kids in cages was all over the news until a month or two ago. NBC, for example, were running nightly broadcasts about it. Back in the spring the likes of AOC was hammering the administration on it.

So either they're finally starting to deal with the numbers I.e. they were able to bulk up the capacity to house and process or ship out all of these people, or the news cycle simply moved on to other things like Afghanistan or Covid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BF2QB

Joe and Kamala are absolute clowns and have made this situation 50 times worse than it was
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BF2QB

Joe and Kamala are absolute clowns and have made this situation 50 times worse than it was

So the smuggling infrastructure outlined in this article was conjured into existence in the two months after his inauguration?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BF2QB

Joe and Kamala are absolute clowns and have made this situation 50 times worse than it was

So the smuggling infrastructure outlined in this article was conjured into existence in the two months after his inauguration?

They opened the floodgates

200K apprehended last month - the highest in 20 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BF2QB

Joe and Kamala are absolute clowns and have made this situation 50 times worse than it was

So the smuggling infrastructure outlined in this article was conjured into existence in the two months after his inauguration?

They opened the floodgates

200K apprehended last month - the highest in 20 years


How though?

He got rid of the "remain in Mexico" program for asylum seekers and he set about reuniting lost kids with their families.

Apart from that, the rebound from covid, and the perception change due to the removal the people who would steal your kids, what's being done differently?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 18, 2021, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BF2QB

Joe and Kamala are absolute clowns and have made this situation 50 times worse than it was

So the smuggling infrastructure outlined in this article was conjured into existence in the two months after his inauguration?

They opened the floodgates

200K apprehended last month - the highest in 20 years


How though?

He got rid of the "remain in Mexico" program for asylum seekers and he set about reuniting lost kids with their families.

Apart from that, the rebound from covid, and the perception change due to the removal the people who would steal your kids, what's being done differently?

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/biden-immigration-policies-cause-predictable-border-crisis-why-didn-t-ncna1260992
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BF2QB

Joe and Kamala are absolute clowns and have made this situation 50 times worse than it was

So the smuggling infrastructure outlined in this article was conjured into existence in the two months after his inauguration?

They opened the floodgates

200K apprehended last month - the highest in 20 years


How though?

He got rid of the "remain in Mexico" program for asylum seekers and he set about reuniting lost kids with their families.

Apart from that, the rebound from covid, and the perception change due to the removal the people who would steal your kids, what's being done differently?

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/biden-immigration-policies-cause-predictable-border-crisis-why-didn-t-ncna1260992

Ok, so a conservative pundit is blaming Biden's rhetoric and slow start (again, a few weeks in at the time) for the surge.

There's only so much and so fast large changes can be made and implemented upon taking over huge federal bureaucracies.

If you think he should have continued the "remain in Mexico" program with that in mind, then argue that. I've never claimed his (or any Dem's) policies were above reproach and criticism.

But he is absolutely correct to step back from the extremism and bigoted rhetoric and policies of Trump, Stephen Miller and the rest. If that encourages people to come, so be it. It took stolen kids and a pandemic to stop them before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 18, 2021, 05:27:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BF2QB

Joe and Kamala are absolute clowns and have made this situation 50 times worse than it was

So the smuggling infrastructure outlined in this article was conjured into existence in the two months after his inauguration?

They opened the floodgates

200K apprehended last month - the highest in 20 years


How though?

He got rid of the "remain in Mexico" program for asylum seekers and he set about reuniting lost kids with their families.

Apart from that, the rebound from covid, and the perception change due to the removal the people who would steal your kids, what's being done differently?

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/biden-immigration-policies-cause-predictable-border-crisis-why-didn-t-ncna1260992

Ok, so a conservative pundit is blaming Biden's rhetoric and slow start (again, a few weeks in at the time) for the surge.

There's only so much and so fast large changes can be made and implemented upon taking over huge federal bureaucracies.

If you think he should have continued the "remain in Mexico" program with that in mind, then argue that. I've never claimed his (or any Dem's) policies were above reproach and criticism.

But he is absolutely correct to step back from the extremism and bigoted rhetoric and policies of Trump, Stephen Miller and the rest. If that encourages people to come, so be it. It took stolen kids and a pandemic to stop them before.

Fantastic

So in place of "extremism and bigoted rhetoric" we now have hundreds of thousands of people now crossing the border every month.......a multi decade high number

Great work....Joe and Kamala.....keep it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

Joe is responsible for the problems in Haiti, Brazil and Chile that are causing the current influx of Haitians to the border?

The FBI are going to cause the whack jobs to riot today?

You really are gullible and stupid as a plank with the right wing nonsense you spout. Next few days you'll resurrect the thread again to tell us that Arizona presidential election WAS stolen (I think the "report" is finally coming).
don't come on the thread so .
You're as naive as Lois lane .
Did you love aocs dress the last night ? Great hit in the office with the rest of the clowns?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 05:54:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 05:27:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:56:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 18, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BF2QB

Joe and Kamala are absolute clowns and have made this situation 50 times worse than it was

So the smuggling infrastructure outlined in this article was conjured into existence in the two months after his inauguration?

They opened the floodgates

200K apprehended last month - the highest in 20 years


How though?

He got rid of the "remain in Mexico" program for asylum seekers and he set about reuniting lost kids with their families.

Apart from that, the rebound from covid, and the perception change due to the removal the people who would steal your kids, what's being done differently?

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/biden-immigration-policies-cause-predictable-border-crisis-why-didn-t-ncna1260992

Ok, so a conservative pundit is blaming Biden's rhetoric and slow start (again, a few weeks in at the time) for the surge.

There's only so much and so fast large changes can be made and implemented upon taking over huge federal bureaucracies.

If you think he should have continued the "remain in Mexico" program with that in mind, then argue that. I've never claimed his (or any Dem's) policies were above reproach and criticism.

But he is absolutely correct to step back from the extremism and bigoted rhetoric and policies of Trump, Stephen Miller and the rest. If that encourages people to come, so be it. It took stolen kids and a pandemic to stop them before.

Fantastic

So in place of "extremism and bigoted rhetoric" we now have hundreds of thousands of people now crossing the border every month.......a multi decade high number

Great work....Joe and Kamala.....keep it up

Wel one would hope that they'll get the processing apparatus up and running properly, and either admit people or return them home rather than stealing their kids or having them shack up on the Mexican side of the Rio Grande.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

Joe is responsible for the problems in Haiti, Brazil and Chile that are causing the current influx of Haitians to the border?

The FBI are going to cause the whack jobs to riot today?

You really are gullible and stupid as a plank with the right wing nonsense you spout. Next few days you'll resurrect the thread again to tell us that Arizona presidential election WAS stolen (I think the "report" is finally coming).
don't come on the thread so .
You're as naive as Lois lane .
Did you love aocs dress the last night ? Great hit in the office with the rest of the clowns?

Completely surrender the thread to the half-baked lies and bullshit you're channeling from your right wing misinformation sources? No thanks.

At least I try to make coherent, somewhat intelligent arguments Gmac. You just come on here spewing the latest angry headline or hyped up talking point or conspiracy theory from Fox News or talk radio or whatever websites you frequent, and then just ignore the responses. If you posted an original thought now and again, you might be better equipped to engage.

I mean seriously, AOC's dress?

That's what you're reduced to??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

Joe is responsible for the problems in Haiti, Brazil and Chile that are causing the current influx of Haitians to the border?

The FBI are going to cause the whack jobs to riot today?

You really are gullible and stupid as a plank with the right wing nonsense you spout. Next few days you'll resurrect the thread again to tell us that Arizona presidential election WAS stolen (I think the "report" is finally coming).
don't come on the thread so .
You're as naive as Lois lane .
Did you love aocs dress the last night ? Great hit in the office with the rest of the clowns?

Completely surrender the thread to the half-baked lies and bullshit you're channeling from your right wing misinformation sources? No thanks.

At least I try to make coherent, somewhat intelligent arguments Gmac. You just come on here spewing the latest angry headline or hyped up talking point or conspiracy theory from Fox News or talk radio or whatever websites you frequent, and then just ignore the responses. If you posted an original thought now and again, you might be better equipped to engage.

I mean seriously, AOC's dress?

That's what you're reduced to??
her dress sums up the Democrats perfectly wearing a tax the rich dress to a 30k ticket event that is attended by multi millionaires , she wants what they have but has to lie about everything to her voters to get it and the clowns put her on a pedestal and think she's working for them , btw I wonder did she get her granny's roof fixed ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 18, 2021, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2021, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2021, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Joe and co just killed 9 people including 6 children in a rocket attack ,they tried to say they killed members of isis first . The lies and incompetence are unbelievable, are the taliban providing them locations to target ? or killing people for them in other words.
finally same clean today about this
Meanwhile 10k mostly from Haiti are at the border in Texas trying to enter the country. 200k again last month stopped at border and joes first move is to stop drones flying over so no one can see what's happening, his seals in the media will keep clapping though.
Joe going from one disaster to another, will the fbi and co try create some trouble tomorrow in DC so they can get back to the white supremacy narrative ? I think so

Joe is responsible for the problems in Haiti, Brazil and Chile that are causing the current influx of Haitians to the border?

The FBI are going to cause the whack jobs to riot today?

You really are gullible and stupid as a plank with the right wing nonsense you spout. Next few days you'll resurrect the thread again to tell us that Arizona presidential election WAS stolen (I think the "report" is finally coming).
don't come on the thread so .
You're as naive as Lois lane .
Did you love aocs dress the last night ? Great hit in the office with the rest of the clowns?

Completely surrender the thread to the half-baked lies and bullshit you're channeling from your right wing misinformation sources? No thanks.

At least I try to make coherent, somewhat intelligent arguments Gmac. You just come on here spewing the latest angry headline or hyped up talking point or conspiracy theory from Fox News or talk radio or whatever websites you frequent, and then just ignore the responses. If you posted an original thought now and again, you might be better equipped to engage.

I mean seriously, AOC's dress?

That's what you're reduced to??
her dress sums up the Democrats perfectly wearing a tax the rich dress to a 30k ticket event that is attended by multi millionaires , she wants what they have but has to lie about everything to her voters to get it and the clowns put her on a pedestal and think she's working for them , btw I wonder did she get her granny's roof fixed ?

1. What does she lie to her constituents about?
2. I only know this because I just looked it up (more fool me I guess) but the dress was borrowed and the tickets are comped as she is an NYC politician and the Met, a major cultural institution here, is partially funded by city taxes. How that sums up the Dems (perfectly!), I'm not sure.
3. You'll have to expand on her granny's roof and it's supposed relevance to anything.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me

I thought she said " tax the rich", not hate the rich.

Bernie is all for the rich paying far more too. Doesn't mean he hates them either.

How were YOU right about the drone attack? ;D :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 20, 2021, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me

I thought she said " tax the rich", not hate the rich.

Bernie is all for the rich paying far more too. Doesn't mean he hates them either.

How were YOU right about the drone attack? ;D :o
I told you the day it happened they killed 7 kids, the abandoned service dogs on the street knew, the administration only admitted it a few days ago .
Joe with another "gaffe" the other day not knowing the Australian pms name called him that fella from down under and buddy ffs should have called him chief , but nothing to see here .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 20, 2021, 08:39:44 PM
FFS-did anyone see the guys on horses chasing down the Haitians?

Joe and Kamala are actually more incompetent than Trump......and that's saying something
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 20, 2021, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 20, 2021, 08:39:44 PM
FFS-did anyone see the guys on horses chasing down the Haitians?

Joe and Kamala are actually more incompetent than Trump......and that's saying something
where is Jim Acosta ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 20, 2021, 10:37:43 PM
He's living rent-free in your head
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 20, 2021, 10:51:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 20, 2021, 10:37:43 PM
He's living rent-free in your head

Naaaahhhh......'Idnsay he's busy chasin down some Russian conspiracy theories
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2021, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2021, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me

I thought she said " tax the rich", not hate the rich.

Bernie is all for the rich paying far more too. Doesn't mean he hates them either.

How were YOU right about the drone attack? ;D :o
I told you the day it happened they killed 7 kids, the abandoned service dogs on the street knew, the administration only admitted it a few days ago .
Joe with another "gaffe" the other day not knowing the Australian pms name called him that fella from down under and buddy ffs should have called him chief , but nothing to see here .

You didn't tell anyone shit.

You reported a headline/story, which for once in a blue moon when it comes to you, turned out to be true.

It would be interesting to look back and see were you so moved when similar "mistakes" resulted in the death of innocents under Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 21, 2021, 12:03:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2021, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me

I thought she said " tax the rich", not hate the rich.

Bernie is all for the rich paying far more too. Doesn't mean he hates them either.

How were YOU right about the drone attack? ;D :o
I told you the day it happened they killed 7 kids, the abandoned service dogs on the street knew, the administration only admitted it a few days ago .
Joe with another "gaffe" the other day not knowing the Australian pms name called him that fella from down under and buddy ffs should have called him chief , but nothing to see here .

You didn't tell anyone shit.

You reported a headline/story, which for once in a blue moon when it comes to you, turned out to be true.

It would be interesting to look back and see were you so moved when similar "mistakes" resulted in the death of innocents under Trump.

J70....what do you think of AOCs dress designer being a tax cheat?


https://www.jpost.com/international/designer-of-aocs-tax-the-rich-met-gala-dress-didnt-pay-taxes-report-679843
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2021, 12:18:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2021, 12:03:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2021, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me

I thought she said " tax the rich", not hate the rich.

Bernie is all for the rich paying far more too. Doesn't mean he hates them either.

How were YOU right about the drone attack? ;D :o
I told you the day it happened they killed 7 kids, the abandoned service dogs on the street knew, the administration only admitted it a few days ago .
Joe with another "gaffe" the other day not knowing the Australian pms name called him that fella from down under and buddy ffs should have called him chief , but nothing to see here .

You didn't tell anyone shit.

You reported a headline/story, which for once in a blue moon when it comes to you, turned out to be true.

It would be interesting to look back and see were you so moved when similar "mistakes" resulted in the death of innocents under Trump.

J70....what do you think of AOCs dress designer being a tax cheat?


https://www.jpost.com/international/designer-of-aocs-tax-the-rich-met-gala-dress-didnt-pay-taxes-report-679843

What do you mean "what do I think"?

WTF am I supposed to think?

Pay your taxes, obviously, and if you don't, you should be subject to fullest pursuit by the taxing authorities, is what I think, assuming the allegations are true.

Anything else?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 21, 2021, 12:22:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2021, 12:18:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2021, 12:03:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2021, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me

I thought she said " tax the rich", not hate the rich.

Bernie is all for the rich paying far more too. Doesn't mean he hates them either.

How were YOU right about the drone attack? ;D :o
I told you the day it happened they killed 7 kids, the abandoned service dogs on the street knew, the administration only admitted it a few days ago .
Joe with another "gaffe" the other day not knowing the Australian pms name called him that fella from down under and buddy ffs should have called him chief , but nothing to see here .

You didn't tell anyone shit.

You reported a headline/story, which for once in a blue moon when it comes to you, turned out to be true.

It would be interesting to look back and see were you so moved when similar "mistakes" resulted in the death of innocents under Trump.

J70....what do you think of AOCs dress designer being a tax cheat?


https://www.jpost.com/international/designer-of-aocs-tax-the-rich-met-gala-dress-didnt-pay-taxes-report-679843

What do you mean "what do I think"?

WTF am I supposed to think?

Pay your taxes, obviously, and if you don't, you should be subject to fullest pursuit by the taxing authorities, is what I think, assuming the allegations are true.

Anything else?

Kind of ironic isn't it....when you were defending her tooth and nail last week
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2021, 12:33:03 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2021, 12:22:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2021, 12:18:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2021, 12:03:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2021, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me

I thought she said " tax the rich", not hate the rich.

Bernie is all for the rich paying far more too. Doesn't mean he hates them either.

How were YOU right about the drone attack? ;D :o
I told you the day it happened they killed 7 kids, the abandoned service dogs on the street knew, the administration only admitted it a few days ago .
Joe with another "gaffe" the other day not knowing the Australian pms name called him that fella from down under and buddy ffs should have called him chief , but nothing to see here .

You didn't tell anyone shit.

You reported a headline/story, which for once in a blue moon when it comes to you, turned out to be true.

It would be interesting to look back and see were you so moved when similar "mistakes" resulted in the death of innocents under Trump.

J70....what do you think of AOCs dress designer being a tax cheat?


https://www.jpost.com/international/designer-of-aocs-tax-the-rich-met-gala-dress-didnt-pay-taxes-report-679843

What do you mean "what do I think"?

WTF am I supposed to think?

Pay your taxes, obviously, and if you don't, you should be subject to fullest pursuit by the taxing authorities, is what I think, assuming the allegations are true.

Anything else?

Kind of ironic isn't it....when you were defending her tooth and nail last week

Ironic? Tooth and nail?

Where and when did this happen?

Because the only reference I recall making to AOC was questioning a couple of Gmac's standard hyperbolic, ill-supported accusations against her.

My comments are at the top of this same page. You can quote them easily enough if you need. (Actually one of them is already quoted in this post)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 21, 2021, 03:40:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2021, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me

I thought she said " tax the rich", not hate the rich.

Bernie is all for the rich paying far more too. Doesn't mean he hates them either.

How were YOU right about the drone attack? ;D :o
I told you the day it happened they killed 7 kids, the abandoned service dogs on the street knew, the administration only admitted it a few days ago .
Joe with another "gaffe" the other day not knowing the Australian pms name called him that fella from down under and buddy ffs should have called him chief , but nothing to see here .

You didn't tell anyone shit.

You reported a headline/story, which for once in a blue moon when it comes to you, turned out to be true.

It would be interesting to look back and see were you so moved when similar "mistakes" resulted in the death of innocents under Trump.
good to see Saturday went off without much hassle although I did see one video of a guy in the crowd who the cops saw was carrying a gun and took it off him and removed him , guess what he was ? A federal agent , my conspiracy theories seem to be on the money .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2021, 07:39:57 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2021, 03:40:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2021, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
That she hates the rich and she's one of them (her constituents) ,was I right about the drone attack ? Maybe you are the sucker not me

I thought she said " tax the rich", not hate the rich.

Bernie is all for the rich paying far more too. Doesn't mean he hates them either.

How were YOU right about the drone attack? ;D :o
I told you the day it happened they killed 7 kids, the abandoned service dogs on the street knew, the administration only admitted it a few days ago .
Joe with another "gaffe" the other day not knowing the Australian pms name called him that fella from down under and buddy ffs should have called him chief , but nothing to see here .

You didn't tell anyone shit.

You reported a headline/story, which for once in a blue moon when it comes to you, turned out to be true.

It would be interesting to look back and see were you so moved when similar "mistakes" resulted in the death of innocents under Trump.
good to see Saturday went off without much hassle although I did see one video of a guy in the crowd who the cops saw was carrying a gun and took it off him and removed him , guess what he was ? A federal agent , my conspiracy theories seem to be on the money .

Only reference I could see in a Google search was a CBP officer from NJ.

Assuming that is what you're referring to, do tell us how that is "on the money"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 20, 2021, 10:51:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 20, 2021, 10:37:43 PM
He's living rent-free in your head

Naaaahhhh......'Idnsay he's busy chasin down some Russian conspiracy theories
thousands of people under an overpass in terrible conditions surely a sjw like Jim would be outraged and want to investigate, cnn could also send their covid expert Lauren Chen to check all migrants for vaccine passports or negative pcr test .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:00:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 20, 2021, 10:51:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 20, 2021, 10:37:43 PM
He's living rent-free in your head

Naaaahhhh......'Idnsay he's busy chasin down some Russian conspiracy theories
thousands of people under an overpass in terrible conditions surely a sjw like Jim would be outraged and want to investigate, cnn could also send their covid expert Lauren Chen to check all migrants for vaccine passports or negative pcr test .

1. Who is Lauren Chen? The only one I can see by that name appears to be some right wing online personality.https://twitter.com/TheLaurenChen?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor (https://twitter.com/TheLaurenChen?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)

2. The administration is working its way through the Haitians, processing 4000 in the last few days and has already deported more than 500 of them. Would have thought you'd be delighted with that?https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-says-4000-haitian-migrants-moved-border-four-more-flights-come-mayorkas-2021-09-21/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-says-4000-haitian-migrants-moved-border-four-more-flights-come-mayorkas-2021-09-21/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Misspelled,  Leana wen her motto is anti vaccine is  anti freedom so no freedom until vaccinated that's how it works for everyone right
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 22, 2021, 06:13:57 PM
LOL - how telling - do they all look the same to you?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Misspelled,  Leana wen her motto is anti vaccine is  anti freedom so no freedom until vaccinated that's how it works for everyone right

Hadn't heard of her before.

But this appears to be the piece where she says that. https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59 (https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59)

Indeed, vaccines aren't the antithesis of freedom; they are the pathway out of the suffering and isolation brought upon by covid-19. I'd go further to say that being anti-vaccination is anti-freedom.

Some have labeled the recent push by the Biden administration to embrace vaccine requirements as government overreach. I strongly disagree. We are in the middle of the biggest public-health crisis of our lifetimes. This week, we reached the sobering milestone that one in 500 Americans have died of covid-19. One of the core responsibilities of government is to safeguard public health and safety. Vaccination is not just an individual choice; it is one that very much affects the health — and survival — of others.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But then I don't subscribe to the deranged "f**k-you-and-everyone-else; its-all-about-me" concept of freedom that many in the US do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Misspelled,  Leana wen her motto is anti vaccine is  anti freedom so no freedom until vaccinated that's how it works for everyone right

Hadn't heard of her before.

But this appears to be the piece where she says that. https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59 (https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59)

Indeed, vaccines aren't the antithesis of freedom; they are the pathway out of the suffering and isolation brought upon by covid-19. I'd go further to say that being anti-vaccination is anti-freedom.

Some have labeled the recent push by the Biden administration to embrace vaccine requirements as government overreach. I strongly disagree. We are in the middle of the biggest public-health crisis of our lifetimes. This week, we reached the sobering milestone that one in 500 Americans have died of covid-19. One of the core responsibilities of government is to safeguard public health and safety. Vaccination is not just an individual choice; it is one that very much affects the health — and survival — of others.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But then I don't subscribe to the deranged "f**k-you-and-everyone-else; its-all-about-me" concept of freedom that many in the US do.
anyone not vaccinated by now is not getting it , allowing hundreds of thousands of illegals into the country unchecked is insane both medically and lawfully and that's what Biden is doing all while trying to kick us citizens out of their  jobs .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Misspelled,  Leana wen her motto is anti vaccine is  anti freedom so no freedom until vaccinated that's how it works for everyone right

Hadn't heard of her before.

But this appears to be the piece where she says that. https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59 (https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59)

Indeed, vaccines aren't the antithesis of freedom; they are the pathway out of the suffering and isolation brought upon by covid-19. I'd go further to say that being anti-vaccination is anti-freedom.

Some have labeled the recent push by the Biden administration to embrace vaccine requirements as government overreach. I strongly disagree. We are in the middle of the biggest public-health crisis of our lifetimes. This week, we reached the sobering milestone that one in 500 Americans have died of covid-19. One of the core responsibilities of government is to safeguard public health and safety. Vaccination is not just an individual choice; it is one that very much affects the health — and survival — of others.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But then I don't subscribe to the deranged "f**k-you-and-everyone-else; its-all-about-me" concept of freedom that many in the US do.
anyone not vaccinated by now is not getting it , allowing hundreds of thousands of illegals into the country unchecked is insane both medically and lawfully and that's what Biden is doing all while trying to kick us citizens out of their  jobs .

1. How many are getting through unchecked?
2. Is there any evidence that illegal immigration is responsible, to any significant effect, for the spread of Covid?
3.Assuming, for the sake of argument, that illegal immigration IS a significant contributor to the spread of Covid, why would it make any sense to ignore the problems caused by unvaccinated citizens and residents?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Republicans claiming to be worried about the spread of Covid.  ;D ;D ;D

It's like Hitler claiming to be worried about the safety of Jews.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:00:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Misspelled,  Leana wen her motto is anti vaccine is  anti freedom so no freedom until vaccinated that's how it works for everyone right

Hadn't heard of her before.

But this appears to be the piece where she says that. https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59 (https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59)

Indeed, vaccines aren't the antithesis of freedom; they are the pathway out of the suffering and isolation brought upon by covid-19. I'd go further to say that being anti-vaccination is anti-freedom.

Some have labeled the recent push by the Biden administration to embrace vaccine requirements as government overreach. I strongly disagree. We are in the middle of the biggest public-health crisis of our lifetimes. This week, we reached the sobering milestone that one in 500 Americans have died of covid-19. One of the core responsibilities of government is to safeguard public health and safety. Vaccination is not just an individual choice; it is one that very much affects the health — and survival — of others.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But then I don't subscribe to the deranged "f**k-you-and-everyone-else; its-all-about-me" concept of freedom that many in the US do.
anyone not vaccinated by now is not getting it , allowing hundreds of thousands of illegals into the country unchecked is insane both medically and lawfully and that's what Biden is doing all while trying to kick us citizens out of their  jobs .

1. How many are getting through unchecked?
2. Is there any evidence that illegal immigration is responsible, to any significant effect, for the spread of Covid?
3.Assuming, for the sake of argument, that illegal immigration IS a significant contributor to the spread of Covid, why would it make any sense to ignore the problems caused by unvaccinated citizens and residents?
would you be ok with airports allowing people in without vaccines or negative test ?
I like to show the hypocrisy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Republicans claiming to be worried about the spread of Covid.  ;D ;D ;D

It's like Hitler claiming to be worried about the safety of Jews.
if I was banned off an Internet forum as many times as you have I would take the hint
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 08:28:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Republicans claiming to be worried about the spread of Covid.  ;D ;D ;D

It's like Hitler claiming to be worried about the safety of Jews.
if I was banned off an Internet forum as many times as you have I would take the hint
Republicans are always about banning things they don't like. Hate free speech. And people who don't look like them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:45:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 08:28:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Republicans claiming to be worried about the spread of Covid.  ;D ;D ;D

It's like Hitler claiming to be worried about the safety of Jews.
if I was banned off an Internet forum as many times as you have I would take the hint
Republicans are always about banning things they don't like. Hate free speech. And people who don't look like them.
i never asked for you to be banned , you did it all on your own , several times 👏👏
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 08:50:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:45:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 08:28:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Republicans claiming to be worried about the spread of Covid.  ;D ;D ;D

It's like Hitler claiming to be worried about the safety of Jews.
if I was banned off an Internet forum as many times as you have I would take the hint
Republicans are always about banning things they don't like. Hate free speech. And people who don't look like them.
i never asked for you to be banned , you did it all on your own , several times 👏👏
I note you didn't dispute my point. I suppose it's a start that you have decided not to argue against facts.  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 08:50:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:45:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 08:28:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Republicans claiming to be worried about the spread of Covid.  ;D ;D ;D

It's like Hitler claiming to be worried about the safety of Jews.
if I was banned off an Internet forum as many times as you have I would take the hint
Republicans are always about banning things they don't like. Hate free speech. And people who don't look like them.
i never asked for you to be banned , you did it all on your own , several times 👏👏
I note you didn't dispute my point. I suppose it's a start that you have decided not to argue against facts.  ;)
it wasn't worthy of a response.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2021, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:00:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Misspelled,  Leana wen her motto is anti vaccine is  anti freedom so no freedom until vaccinated that's how it works for everyone right

Hadn't heard of her before.

But this appears to be the piece where she says that. https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59 (https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59)

Indeed, vaccines aren't the antithesis of freedom; they are the pathway out of the suffering and isolation brought upon by covid-19. I'd go further to say that being anti-vaccination is anti-freedom.

Some have labeled the recent push by the Biden administration to embrace vaccine requirements as government overreach. I strongly disagree. We are in the middle of the biggest public-health crisis of our lifetimes. This week, we reached the sobering milestone that one in 500 Americans have died of covid-19. One of the core responsibilities of government is to safeguard public health and safety. Vaccination is not just an individual choice; it is one that very much affects the health — and survival — of others.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But then I don't subscribe to the deranged "f**k-you-and-everyone-else; its-all-about-me" concept of freedom that many in the US do.
anyone not vaccinated by now is not getting it , allowing hundreds of thousands of illegals into the country unchecked is insane both medically and lawfully and that's what Biden is doing all while trying to kick us citizens out of their  jobs .

1. How many are getting through unchecked?
2. Is there any evidence that illegal immigration is responsible, to any significant effect, for the spread of Covid?
3.Assuming, for the sake of argument, that illegal immigration IS a significant contributor to the spread of Covid, why would it make any sense to ignore the problems caused by unvaccinated citizens and residents?
would you be ok with airports allowing people in without vaccines or negative test ?
I like to show the hypocrisy

So no facts or numbers or even rational argument to contribute, just bullshit as usual.

But, unlike yourself, I'll try to answer.

1. There is no hypocrisy. I have never complained here (or anywhere else) about the CBP doing their job and patrolling the border and arresting illegal crossers. I would expect it to be done humanely and the people in question handled humanely. I would expect asylum seekers to be handled humanely. I think the CBP should have whatever resources and funding they need to do their job both thoroughly and humanely. And that should obviously include covid testing and vaccinations, and whatever other vaccinations would be needed.

2. Airports are controlled border crossings. Far easier to control than thousands of miles of a land border obviously. First step in any operation should be the low-hanging fruit, and ports of entry like airports are easy enough to control before you turn to the more complex stuff. That aside I've asked you on several occasions when you're making these claims to provide some substance regarding the numbers, even estimates, of how many people are evading the CBP at the border, but you repeatedly fail to provide any. One would assume you have access to something given that you're repeatedly using it as an excuse for opposing vaccine mandates or, laughably, as a diversion to the lunatic right wing's ovine vaccine denialism.

3. You didn't answer why mandates are wrong on their own merits. Because even if the border is contributing to the spread, that doesn't mean mandates can't help overall.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 09:18:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:00:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Misspelled,  Leana wen her motto is anti vaccine is  anti freedom so no freedom until vaccinated that's how it works for everyone right

Hadn't heard of her before.

But this appears to be the piece where she says that. https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59 (https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59)

Indeed, vaccines aren't the antithesis of freedom; they are the pathway out of the suffering and isolation brought upon by covid-19. I'd go further to say that being anti-vaccination is anti-freedom.

Some have labeled the recent push by the Biden administration to embrace vaccine requirements as government overreach. I strongly disagree. We are in the middle of the biggest public-health crisis of our lifetimes. This week, we reached the sobering milestone that one in 500 Americans have died of covid-19. One of the core responsibilities of government is to safeguard public health and safety. Vaccination is not just an individual choice; it is one that very much affects the health — and survival — of others.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But then I don't subscribe to the deranged "f**k-you-and-everyone-else; its-all-about-me" concept of freedom that many in the US do.
anyone not vaccinated by now is not getting it , allowing hundreds of thousands of illegals into the country unchecked is insane both medically and lawfully and that's what Biden is doing all while trying to kick us citizens out of their  jobs .

1. How many are getting through unchecked?
2. Is there any evidence that illegal immigration is responsible, to any significant effect, for the spread of Covid?
3.Assuming, for the sake of argument, that illegal immigration IS a significant contributor to the spread of Covid, why would it make any sense to ignore the problems caused by unvaccinated citizens and residents?
would you be ok with airports allowing people in without vaccines or negative test ?
I like to show the hypocrisy

So no facts or numbers or even rational argument to contribute, just bullshit as usual.

But, unlike yourself, I'll try to answer.

1. There is no hypocrisy. I have never complained here (or anywhere else) about the CBP doing their job and patrolling the border and arresting illegal crossers. I would expect it to be done humanely and the people in question handled humanely. I would expect asylum seekers to be handled humanely. I think the CBP should have whatever resources and funding they need to do their job both thoroughly and humanely. And that should obviously include covid testing and vaccinations, and whatever other vaccinations would be needed.

2. Airports are controlled border crossings. Far easier to control than thousands of miles of a land border obviously. First step in any operation should be the low-hanging fruit, and ports of entry like airports are easy enough to control before you turn to the more complex stuff. That aside I've asked you on several occasions when you're making these claims to provide some substance regarding the numbers, even estimates, of how many people are evading the CBP at the border, but you repeatedly fail to provide any. One would assume you have access to something given that you're repeatedly using it as an excuse for opposing vaccine mandates or, laughably, as a diversion to the lunatic right wing's ovine vaccine denialism.

3. You didn't answer why mandates are wrong on their own merits. Because even if the border is contributing to the spread, that doesn't mean mandates can't help overall.
the cnn bs talking point that conservative people won't take the vaccine is  a lie  what is true though is the current president and vp said last year that they would not take a vaccine that's connected to the Trump administration , a few months ago Biden,  fauci and Kamala said vaccine mandates would not be implemented . So if you want to see liars look at the white house the media and the mirror
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 09:27:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 08:50:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:45:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 08:28:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Republicans claiming to be worried about the spread of Covid.  ;D ;D ;D

It's like Hitler claiming to be worried about the safety of Jews.
if I was banned off an Internet forum as many times as you have I would take the hint
Republicans are always about banning things they don't like. Hate free speech. And people who don't look like them.
i never asked for you to be banned , you did it all on your own , several times 👏👏
I note you didn't dispute my point. I suppose it's a start that you have decided not to argue against facts.  ;)
it wasn't worthy of a response.
That good ol' GQP echo chamber again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 22, 2021, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 09:18:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:00:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Misspelled,  Leana wen her motto is anti vaccine is  anti freedom so no freedom until vaccinated that's how it works for everyone right

Hadn't heard of her before.

But this appears to be the piece where she says that. https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59 (https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59)

Indeed, vaccines aren't the antithesis of freedom; they are the pathway out of the suffering and isolation brought upon by covid-19. I'd go further to say that being anti-vaccination is anti-freedom.

Some have labeled the recent push by the Biden administration to embrace vaccine requirements as government overreach. I strongly disagree. We are in the middle of the biggest public-health crisis of our lifetimes. This week, we reached the sobering milestone that one in 500 Americans have died of covid-19. One of the core responsibilities of government is to safeguard public health and safety. Vaccination is not just an individual choice; it is one that very much affects the health — and survival — of others.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But then I don't subscribe to the deranged "f**k-you-and-everyone-else; its-all-about-me" concept of freedom that many in the US do.
anyone not vaccinated by now is not getting it , allowing hundreds of thousands of illegals into the country unchecked is insane both medically and lawfully and that's what Biden is doing all while trying to kick us citizens out of their  jobs .

1. How many are getting through unchecked?
2. Is there any evidence that illegal immigration is responsible, to any significant effect, for the spread of Covid?
3.Assuming, for the sake of argument, that illegal immigration IS a significant contributor to the spread of Covid, why would it make any sense to ignore the problems caused by unvaccinated citizens and residents?
would you be ok with airports allowing people in without vaccines or negative test ?
I like to show the hypocrisy

So no facts or numbers or even rational argument to contribute, just bullshit as usual.

But, unlike yourself, I'll try to answer.

1. There is no hypocrisy. I have never complained here (or anywhere else) about the CBP doing their job and patrolling the border and arresting illegal crossers. I would expect it to be done humanely and the people in question handled humanely. I would expect asylum seekers to be handled humanely. I think the CBP should have whatever resources and funding they need to do their job both thoroughly and humanely. And that should obviously include covid testing and vaccinations, and whatever other vaccinations would be needed.

2. Airports are controlled border crossings. Far easier to control than thousands of miles of a land border obviously. First step in any operation should be the low-hanging fruit, and ports of entry like airports are easy enough to control before you turn to the more complex stuff. That aside I've asked you on several occasions when you're making these claims to provide some substance regarding the numbers, even estimates, of how many people are evading the CBP at the border, but you repeatedly fail to provide any. One would assume you have access to something given that you're repeatedly using it as an excuse for opposing vaccine mandates or, laughably, as a diversion to the lunatic right wing's ovine vaccine denialism.

3. You didn't answer why mandates are wrong on their own merits. Because even if the border is contributing to the spread, that doesn't mean mandates can't help overall.
the cnn bs talking point that conservative people won't take the vaccine is  a lie  what is true though is the current president and vp said last year that they would not take a vaccine that's connected to the Trump administration , a few months ago Biden,  fauci and Kamala said vaccine mandates would not be implemented . So if you want to see liars look at the white house the media and the mirror

Trump threatened to ride roughshod over the FDA and install lackeys to approve a vaccine which hadn't yet gone through the appropriate safety protocols - for no other reason than he wanted to use it as a tool to win the election.

That's fascism - and of course anybody with a brain would have not taken a vaccine that had not been properly tested but railroaded through for political purposes with no thought for the safety of the population.

Now the same people who were clamouring for a vaccine which had not yet been proven safe to be approved so they could take it - on the say so of the dear leader - are refusing in vast numbers to take a vaccine which now has overwhelming safety data behind it.

Biden says "take the vaccine - it's safe". So the loonies refuse to take it.

Some of them prefer to take Ivermectin horse paste and shit out their intestines. What a way to "own the libs". By shitting out your intestines.

It is documented fact that Republicans are by far the biggest vaccine holdouts - and the Republican party is happy to entertain and spread anti-vaxx lunacy.

There's no other word to describe that sort of carry on except evil.

It is evil. And the Republican party is evil.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2021, 10:12:04 PM
Good to have you back Sid

Even though you're talking through your ar$e as usual

Huge percentages of the African American population are also unvaccinated

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/

"Black and Hispanic people remain less likely than their White counterparts to have received a vaccine, leaving them at increased risk, particularly as the variant spreads."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 11:15:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2021, 10:12:04 PM
Good to have you back Sid

Even though you're talking through your ar$e as usual

Huge percentages of the African American population are also unvaccinated

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/

"Black and Hispanic people remain less likely than their White counterparts to have received a vaccine, leaving them at increased risk, particularly as the variant spreads."
72% of black people  in New York are unvaccinated and blm say they are going to bring some George Floyd type protests to the streets over vaccine mandates which they say are racist, how will the mandate loving liberal white little bitches feel about this , can't wait
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 12:32:43 AM
They going to put Haitian's in gitmo ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 12:49:09 AM
Pesky facts.

The Republican party and the right-wing disinformation machine - which is pretty much all of right-wing US media, have blood on their hands.

Evil is almost too mild a word.

https://www.pewresearch.org/ps_2021-09-15_covid19-restrictions_a-02/

(https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/PS_2021.09.15_covid19-restrictions_A-02.png)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-poll-shows-demographic-breakdown-vaccinated-u-s-n1277514?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_mtp

And here are the American adults who say they've already been vaccinated — broken down by demographic group:

All adults: 69 percent
Men: 67 percent
Women: 71 percent
18-34: 63 percent
35-49: 58 percent
50-64: 71 percent
65+: 86 percent
Whites: 66 percent
Blacks: 76 percent
Latinos: 71 percent
Urban residents: 79 percent
Suburban residents: 67 percent
Rural residents: 52 percent
White evangelicals: 59 percent
Democrats: 88 percent
Independents: 60 percent
Republicans: 55 percent
Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
Democratic Sanders-Warren voters: 88 percent
Democratic Biden voters: 87 percent
Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent
White non-college grads: 60 percent
White college grads: 80 percent


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 23, 2021, 01:22:00 AM
Sweet Jesus......you haven't changed. 

Data from an NBC poll is about as reliable as what you'd get reading articles from the National Eqnuirer
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 01:47:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 01:22:00 AM
Sweet Jesus......you haven't changed. 

Data from an NBC poll is about as reliable as what you'd get reading articles from the National Eqnuirer
Reality has never suited you, buddy.

Keep talking absolute bollocks by all means though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 23, 2021, 02:00:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 01:47:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 01:22:00 AM
Sweet Jesus......you haven't changed. 

Data from an NBC poll is about as reliable as what you'd get reading articles from the National Eqnuirer
Reality has never suited you, buddy.

Keep talking absolute bollocks by all means though.

LOL-one of the senior execs at the company I work for is on the IMF global pandemic task force

I know a thing or three about what I'm saying because we all get daily reports with actual data

Eg-Actual data from NYC says 56% of white adults and 45% of black adults are fully vaccinated

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.page#nyc


Similar story in MA

https://www.mass.gov/doc/weekly-covid-19-vaccination-report-september-16-2021/download
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2021, 04:31:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 09:18:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 08:00:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2021, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 22, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Misspelled,  Leana wen her motto is anti vaccine is  anti freedom so no freedom until vaccinated that's how it works for everyone right

Hadn't heard of her before.

But this appears to be the piece where she says that. https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59 (https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=59771bb1ae7e8a6816e15b98&s=6143a94f9d2fda9d41cf9553&linknum=4&linktot=59)

Indeed, vaccines aren't the antithesis of freedom; they are the pathway out of the suffering and isolation brought upon by covid-19. I'd go further to say that being anti-vaccination is anti-freedom.

Some have labeled the recent push by the Biden administration to embrace vaccine requirements as government overreach. I strongly disagree. We are in the middle of the biggest public-health crisis of our lifetimes. This week, we reached the sobering milestone that one in 500 Americans have died of covid-19. One of the core responsibilities of government is to safeguard public health and safety. Vaccination is not just an individual choice; it is one that very much affects the health — and survival — of others.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But then I don't subscribe to the deranged "f**k-you-and-everyone-else; its-all-about-me" concept of freedom that many in the US do.
anyone not vaccinated by now is not getting it , allowing hundreds of thousands of illegals into the country unchecked is insane both medically and lawfully and that's what Biden is doing all while trying to kick us citizens out of their  jobs .

1. How many are getting through unchecked?
2. Is there any evidence that illegal immigration is responsible, to any significant effect, for the spread of Covid?
3.Assuming, for the sake of argument, that illegal immigration IS a significant contributor to the spread of Covid, why would it make any sense to ignore the problems caused by unvaccinated citizens and residents?
would you be ok with airports allowing people in without vaccines or negative test ?
I like to show the hypocrisy

So no facts or numbers or even rational argument to contribute, just bullshit as usual.

But, unlike yourself, I'll try to answer.

1. There is no hypocrisy. I have never complained here (or anywhere else) about the CBP doing their job and patrolling the border and arresting illegal crossers. I would expect it to be done humanely and the people in question handled humanely. I would expect asylum seekers to be handled humanely. I think the CBP should have whatever resources and funding they need to do their job both thoroughly and humanely. And that should obviously include covid testing and vaccinations, and whatever other vaccinations would be needed.

2. Airports are controlled border crossings. Far easier to control than thousands of miles of a land border obviously. First step in any operation should be the low-hanging fruit, and ports of entry like airports are easy enough to control before you turn to the more complex stuff. That aside I've asked you on several occasions when you're making these claims to provide some substance regarding the numbers, even estimates, of how many people are evading the CBP at the border, but you repeatedly fail to provide any. One would assume you have access to something given that you're repeatedly using it as an excuse for opposing vaccine mandates or, laughably, as a diversion to the lunatic right wing's ovine vaccine denialism.

3. You didn't answer why mandates are wrong on their own merits. Because even if the border is contributing to the spread, that doesn't mean mandates can't help overall.
the cnn bs talking point that conservative people won't take the vaccine is  a lie  what is true though is the current president and vp said last year that they would not take a vaccine that's connected to the Trump administration , a few months ago Biden,  fauci and Kamala said vaccine mandates would not be implemented . So if you want to see liars look at the white house the media and the mirror


Was this supposed to be a response to what I said? In response to a post I make giving you grief for once again avoiding the question, you yet again ignore the question and points and change to some other subject, piling on even more bullshit? : D : D

What has CNN got to do with either anything I said or the completely undisguised, shout-it-from-the-rooftops embrace of vaccine denialism by the right?

Kamala Harris didn't say she would not take a vaccine connected to Trump. She said in the VP debate "If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it". The context being, of course, that Trump at the time was trying to get the vaccine rushed for political reasons, out so that he could ride the wave of enthusiasm and good news going into Election Day (how ironic is that given the state of play on the right today?) She was absolutely correct. And Fauci was still part of the administration anyway, albeit one of the rare examples who managed to keep their professional reputations and dignity intact by putting his duty and the public interest above fealty to Trump.

I don't care what they all said about mandates a few months ago. The Delta variant wasn't around then. Another surge of infection wasn't a factor in their thinking. The vaccines were out. Initial enthusiasm looked like it might help conquer this thing, at least in the US. But if conditions change, then decisions and policies have to change. Anything else is irresponsible and an abdication of duty. Wishful thinking is going to make the pandemic end, despite what Trump seemed to think last year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 04:50:50 PM
At all stages of this pandemic, the US right-wing political and media bullshit machine has engaged in magical thinking.

And as their bullshit has continually collapsed around them, they have retreated ever further into an alternate reality universe in which they try to convince themselves that what they are saying is not absolute bollocks.

It is absolute bollocks.

But it is also yet more mass conditioning for the coming assault of full fascism in the US, which requires the creation of an alternate reality which is believed by massive swathes of the population.

This is basic history and anybody who ignores it is complicit.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 23, 2021, 05:18:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 04:50:50 PM
At all stages of this pandemic, the US right-wing political and media bullshit machine has engaged in magical thinking.

And as their bullshit has continually collapsed around them, they have retreated ever further into an alternate reality universe in which they try to convince themselves that what they are saying is not absolute bollocks.

It is absolute bollocks.

But it is also yet more mass conditioning for the coming assault of full fascism in the US, which requires the creation of an alternate reality which is believed by massive swathes of the population.

This is basic history and anybody who ignores it is complicit.

Any thoughts on the teachers Unions taking legal action because they don't want to get vaccinated?

They're certainly no Republicans and are andangerjng the most vulnerable in society who can't get vaccinated


Your selective outrage is hilarious
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:26:27 PM
Yes j70 I believe mandates are wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2021, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:26:27 PM
Yes j70 I believe mandates are wrong.

Just the covid mandates, or all vaccine mandates?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2021, 05:51:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 05:18:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 04:50:50 PM
At all stages of this pandemic, the US right-wing political and media bullshit machine has engaged in magical thinking.

And as their bullshit has continually collapsed around them, they have retreated ever further into an alternate reality universe in which they try to convince themselves that what they are saying is not absolute bollocks.

It is absolute bollocks.

But it is also yet more mass conditioning for the coming assault of full fascism in the US, which requires the creation of an alternate reality which is believed by massive swathes of the population.

This is basic history and anybody who ignores it is complicit.

Any thoughts on the teachers Unions taking legal action because they don't want to get vaccinated?

They're certainly no Republicans and are andangerjng the most vulnerable in society who can't get vaccinated


Your selective outrage is hilarious

In NYC, more than 85% of school staff are vaccinated and the rest will now follow after the city workers unions just lost in court.

How many workers does it take to object before unions have to make this kind of challenge on behalf of their members?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2021, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:26:27 PM
Yes j70 I believe mandates are wrong.

Just the covid mandates, or all vaccine mandates?
covid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 23, 2021, 06:02:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2021, 05:51:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 05:18:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 04:50:50 PM
At all stages of this pandemic, the US right-wing political and media bullshit machine has engaged in magical thinking.

And as their bullshit has continually collapsed around them, they have retreated ever further into an alternate reality universe in which they try to convince themselves that what they are saying is not absolute bollocks.

It is absolute bollocks.

But it is also yet more mass conditioning for the coming assault of full fascism in the US, which requires the creation of an alternate reality which is believed by massive swathes of the population.

This is basic history and anybody who ignores it is complicit.

Any thoughts on the teachers Unions taking legal action because they don't want to get vaccinated?

They're certainly no Republicans and are andangerjng the most vulnerable in society who can't get vaccinated


Your selective outrage is hilarious

In NYC, more than 85% of school staff are vaccinated and the rest will now follow after the city workers unions just lost in court.

How many workers does it take to object before unions have to make this kind of challenge on behalf of their members?

That's great

Chicago is 73% which is scandalous
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2021, 06:16:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2021, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:26:27 PM
Yes j70 I believe mandates are wrong.

Just the covid mandates, or all vaccine mandates?
covid

Why just covid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2021, 06:16:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2021, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:26:27 PM
Yes j70 I believe mandates are wrong.

Just the covid mandates, or all vaccine mandates?
covid
in your current job did you have to disclose your vaccination status before now ?

Why just covid?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
One of the key tenets of the sort of Ayn Rand style libertarianism publicly espoused by the Q Party is that employers should have the freedom to set conditions of employment and deny people access to their premises on a whim.

This is one of the very rare occasions where that sort of libertarian ideology is actually correct, because it holds that any business should be able to mandate vaccines for employees and anybody who enters the premises. Which is very sensible in terms of public health and the health of those who work and enter business premises.

But the people who publicly espouse libertarianism have suddenly renounced that, just because it doesn't suit them.

And they have renounced it because they don't actually believe libertarianism at all, they use it as a front for tyranny, as libertarianism has always been used.

Those who refuse to get vaccinated are being selfish bastards who care nothing for others. They don't care if they spread Covid to somebody and that person dies.

That is real tyranny.

No more needs to be said. And no false respect or nicety should be paid to such an ideology.

Because it's literally quite happy to kill you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 23, 2021, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
One of the key tenets of the sort of Ayn Rand style libertarianism publicly espoused by the Q Party is that employers should have the freedom to set conditions of employment and deny people access to their premises on a whim.

This is one of the very rare occasions where that sort of libertarian ideology is actually correct, because it holds that any business should be able to mandate vaccines for employees and anybody who enters the premises. Which is very sensible in terms of public health and the health of those who work and enter business premises.

But the people who publicly espouse libertarianism have suddenly renounced that, just because it doesn't suit them.

And they have renounced it because they don't actually believe libertarianism at all, they use it as a front for tyranny, as libertarianism has always been used.

Those who refuse to get vaccinated are being selfish bastards who care nothing for others. They don't care if they spread Covid to somebody and that person dies.

That is real tyranny.

No more needs to be said. And no false respect or nicety should be paid to such an ideology.

Because it's literally quite happy to kill you.

So what about the teachers unions suing to stop a vaccine mandate for employees who work exclusively with PEOPLE WHO CANT BE VACCINATED?

What do you think of them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
One of the key tenets of the sort of Ayn Rand style libertarianism publicly espoused by the Q Party is that employers should have the freedom to set conditions of employment and deny people access to their premises on a whim.

This is one of the very rare occasions where that sort of libertarian ideology is actually correct, because it holds that any business should be able to mandate vaccines for employees and anybody who enters the premises. Which is very sensible in terms of public health and the health of those who work and enter business premises.

But the people who publicly espouse libertarianism have suddenly renounced that, just because it doesn't suit them.

And they have renounced it because they don't actually believe libertarianism at all, they use it as a front for tyranny, as libertarianism has always been used.

Those who refuse to get vaccinated are being selfish bastards who care nothing for others. They don't care if they spread Covid to somebody and that person dies.

That is real tyranny.

No more needs to be said. And no false respect or nicety should be paid to such an ideology.

Because it's literally quite happy to kill you.

So what about the teachers unions suing to stop a vaccine mandate for employees who work exclusively with PEOPLE WHO CANT BE VACCINATED?

What do you think of them?
also if you have 99 employees you are ok but 100 means mandates needed , no provision for natural immunity either , here in California newsoms 2 biggest donors Pge who are burning the place down year after year and keep hiking rates and the TEACHERS union , no end go the corruption.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2021, 10:09:17 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2021, 06:16:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2021, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:26:27 PM
Yes j70 I believe mandates are wrong.

Just the covid mandates, or all vaccine mandates?
covid
in your current job did you have to disclose your vaccination status before now ?

Why just covid?

I don't think I did on this one, but other jobs I've had to, yes. I've had to get annual PPD tests on my both my current and last job though.

When I began my current job, there wasn't a pandemic taking place.

As I said in an earlier post, when the circumstances change, then the response needs to also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2021, 10:24:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
One of the key tenets of the sort of Ayn Rand style libertarianism publicly espoused by the Q Party is that employers should have the freedom to set conditions of employment and deny people access to their premises on a whim.

This is one of the very rare occasions where that sort of libertarian ideology is actually correct, because it holds that any business should be able to mandate vaccines for employees and anybody who enters the premises. Which is very sensible in terms of public health and the health of those who work and enter business premises.

But the people who publicly espouse libertarianism have suddenly renounced that, just because it doesn't suit them.

And they have renounced it because they don't actually believe libertarianism at all, they use it as a front for tyranny, as libertarianism has always been used.

Those who refuse to get vaccinated are being selfish bastards who care nothing for others. They don't care if they spread Covid to somebody and that person dies.

That is real tyranny.

No more needs to be said. And no false respect or nicety should be paid to such an ideology.

Because it's literally quite happy to kill you.

So what about the teachers unions suing to stop a vaccine mandate for employees who work exclusively with PEOPLE WHO CANT BE VACCINATED?

What do you think of them?
also if you have 99 employees you are ok but 100 means mandates needed , no provision for natural immunity either , here in California newsoms 2 biggest donors Pge who are burning the place down year after year and keep hiking rates and the TEACHERS union , no end go the corruption.

100 people is the cut-off for loads of federal regulations. They have to draw a line somewhere, and it is typically what they use to differentiate big and small companies. I've no idea if that comes from some statute or if it's simply traditional practice at this point. And people at those companies have the option of weekly testing anyway.

What provision SHOULD there be for natural immunity? How would you measure that? How long does it last? Does the level of protection vary with the severity of the infection?

I would imagine that that WILL come into it a bit down the line IF the data supports it. The only logical reason why it wouldn't is if you're a subscriber to some big-government-wants-to-control-us insanity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2021, 02:07:03 PM
Addendum to my last post (and another example of how personal, anecdotal experience doesn't necessarily extrapolate):

The feds draw the line all over the place when setting thresholds above which a particular reg will apply. The field I'm in often uses 100, but that's not always or even usually the case.

https://www.sullivan-benefits.com/wp-content/uploads/Federal-Employment-Laws-by-Employer-Size-03.17.171.pdf (https://www.sullivan-benefits.com/wp-content/uploads/Federal-Employment-Laws-by-Employer-Size-03.17.171.pdf)
https://www.hrplusinc.com/employment-laws-regulations/ (https://www.hrplusinc.com/employment-laws-regulations/)

The Times just did an article about this issue a few days ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/business/smallbusiness/small-business-vaccine-mandate-threshold.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/business/smallbusiness/small-business-vaccine-mandate-threshold.html)

But, whatever threshold they use, they have to draw a hard line somewhere, unless they're going to make it universally applicable.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 24, 2021, 02:14:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
One of the key tenets of the sort of Ayn Rand style libertarianism publicly espoused by the Q Party is that employers should have the freedom to set conditions of employment and deny people access to their premises on a whim.

This is one of the very rare occasions where that sort of libertarian ideology is actually correct, because it holds that any business should be able to mandate vaccines for employees and anybody who enters the premises. Which is very sensible in terms of public health and the health of those who work and enter business premises.

But the people who publicly espouse libertarianism have suddenly renounced that, just because it doesn't suit them.

And they have renounced it because they don't actually believe libertarianism at all, they use it as a front for tyranny, as libertarianism has always been used.

Those who refuse to get vaccinated are being selfish bastards who care nothing for others. They don't care if they spread Covid to somebody and that person dies.

That is real tyranny.

No more needs to be said. And no false respect or nicety should be paid to such an ideology.

Because it's literally quite happy to kill you.

So what about the teachers unions suing to stop a vaccine mandate for employees who work exclusively with PEOPLE WHO CANT BE VACCINATED?

What do you think of them?

How many union members does it take to force the union to sue?

Honest question - I've no idea how much latitude exists. If 90% are ok with a mandate such as this, but the other 10 are not and want to file a grievance, does the union have to take it on?

More anecdotes from my end, but I've seen first hand how disruptive one or two disgruntled union employees can be and the lengths they can force a union to go to defend them for what most people would consider outrageous conduct (although such "defences" usually, again just talking my experience, come down to some HR technical mistake rather than the conduct itself being defensible).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 02, 2021, 06:29:08 PM
Okay.....I'm not trying to be smart here. I'm hoping someone can actually explain this stuff in layman's terms. There's a big hullabaloo going on at a local high school over people being "misgendered" and students are being accused of hate speech for "deadnaming" other students.

https://springfield.edu/gender-pronouns

Don't!

Don't refer to pronouns such as "they/them/their" or "ze/hir/hir" as "gender-neutral pronouns." While some people identify as gender-neutral, others see themselves as gendered in a nonbinary way. Better language is "nonbinary pronouns."
Don't describe the pronouns someone uses as "preferred pronouns." It is not a preference. The pronouns that a person uses are their pronouns and the only ones that should be used for them.
Don't say "male pronouns" and "female pronouns." Pronouns are not necessarily tied to someone's gender identity: some trans people use "he/him/his" or "she/her/her," but do not identify as male or female, respectively.
If you conform to (most) gender expectations and are not a transgender person, don't indicate that you "don't care what pronouns are used for me." Such statements reinforce the privilege of people who are gender conforming and not transgender because these people are not going to be misgendered and thus do not need to worry about the pronouns that people use for them. It also invalidates the experiences of gender nonconforming and transgender people, many of whom struggle with getting people to use their correct pronouns.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 06, 2021, 04:18:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2021, 02:23:09 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 12:40:26 AM
Point number 3 never fails. Either you are in total denial about the astronomical and wildly out of proportion black violence  in the United States as opposed to the other ethnic groups, or you are lying.
maybe the Democrats haven't changed at all from the party of slavery only  now their policy is let them all kill each other  .
this may be true no charges in Chicago if it's just combatants shooting each other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 11, 2021, 05:29:54 PM
Happy Columbus Day to our US posters .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.
Manchin and Sinema are the problem. 100% corrupt, bought and paid for, extremist political hijackers.

Manchin is the pocket of fossil fuels. Sinema is in the pocket of slash and burn big business.

They are the reason for Biden not being able to get common sense legislation through.

Neither Manchin nor Sinema are getting elected next time anyway. Manchin will lose in West Virginia and Sinema will be primaried and lose.

America is fucked. Once the Republicans get in in 2022, the 2024 presidential election will be stolen, and it's bye bye democracy in America for the rest of our lifetimes.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 10:41:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.
Manchin and Sinema are the problem. 100% corrupt, bought and paid for, extremist political hijackers.

Manchin is the pocket of fossil fuels. Sinema is in the pocket of slash and burn big business.

They are the reason for Biden not being able to get common sense legislation through.

Neither Manchin nor Sinema are getting elected next time anyway. Manchin will lose in West Virginia and Sinema will be primaried and lose.

America is fucked. Once the Republicans get in in 2022, the 2024 presidential election will be stolen, and it's bye bye democracy in America for the rest of our lifetimes.

LOL


Manchin and Sienna are why McAuluffe lost and Murphy may lose in NJ?

Okay. Whatever you say!

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 10:52:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.

An elitist Democrat, who probably spent $1M+ sending his own kids to private schools, stating that parents should have no say in what their children's are being taught in school (while his own wife is on the board of his kids schools helping decide curriculum )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 11:32:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.
Manchin and Sinema are the problem. 100% corrupt, bought and paid for, extremist political hijackers.

Manchin is the pocket of fossil fuels. Sinema is in the pocket of slash and burn big business.

They are the reason for Biden not being able to get common sense legislation through.

Neither Manchin nor Sinema are getting elected next time anyway. Manchin will lose in West Virginia and Sinema will be primaried and lose.

America is fucked. Once the Republicans get in in 2022, the 2024 presidential election will be stolen, and it's bye bye democracy in America for the rest of our lifetimes.

1. I agree America is likely fucked. Trump and the GOP ARE putting the people and legislation in place to steal the next presidential election and they will likely succeed, especially as there are no obvious broad-appeal candidates around on the Democratic side who would win at the level needed to overcome such theft.

3. Hate Manchin and Sinema all you want (although I don't what the f**k Sinema's deal is; I don't know if anyone outside those who have presumably bought and paid for her do), but they're the only thing currently standing in the way of Mitch McConnell being back in charge and the GOP running all of the committees. There is simply no liberal Democratic majority to be had in the US Senate given the undemocratic design of that chamber. Its either the likes of Manchin or its a Trump whackjob. That's the choice, and its also the choice for three or four other states. Manchin is protecting his seat, and he's done so successfully for years in a very conservative state. Progressives can either rein in their ambitions or they can blow their wad on legislation which will either not pass the Senate or which will see them booted out of office and the legislation either revoked or simply not enforced by a GOP-controlled executive.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 11:39:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 10:52:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.

An elitist Democrat, who probably spent $1M+ sending his own kids to private schools, stating that parents should have no say in what their children's are being taught in school (while his own wife is on the board of his kids schools helping decide curriculum )

Well maybe there's a normal middle ground where science is taught in science class and US history, warts and all, is taught in history class.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 12:14:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 11:39:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 10:52:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.

An elitist Democrat, who probably spent $1M+ sending his own kids to private schools, stating that parents should have no say in what their children's are being taught in school (while his own wife is on the board of his kids schools helping decide curriculum )

Well maybe there's a normal middle ground where science is taught in science class and US history, warts and all, is taught in history class.

While CRT (in its entirety) may not be taught in schools, elements of it most certainly are.

The Democrats just can't help themselves

It's actually kind of sad.....Joe could have accomplished a lot of good and now it's been squandered away for absolutely nothing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 12:19:09 PM
What "elements" of CRT are being taught?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 03, 2021, 12:25:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 12:19:09 PM
What "elements" of CRT are being taught?

Yeah I haven't done much digging on this but the lads seem to be massively against it what exactly is the problem with CRT??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:29:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2021, 12:25:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 12:19:09 PM
What "elements" of CRT are being taught?

Yeah I haven't done much digging on this but the lads seem to be massively against it what exactly is the problem with CRT??

Teaching white = bad to 6 year olds. Aye its a real hoot.

The dems should run in 2024 with that line.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 12:37:28 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:29:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2021, 12:25:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 12:19:09 PM
What "elements" of CRT are being taught?

Yeah I haven't done much digging on this but the lads seem to be massively against it what exactly is the problem with CRT??

Teaching white = bad to 6 year olds. Aye its a real hoot.

The dems should run in 2024 with that line.

Where did this happen?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:52:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 11:32:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.
Manchin and Sinema are the problem. 100% corrupt, bought and paid for, extremist political hijackers.

Manchin is the pocket of fossil fuels. Sinema is in the pocket of slash and burn big business.

They are the reason for Biden not being able to get common sense legislation through.

Neither Manchin nor Sinema are getting elected next time anyway. Manchin will lose in West Virginia and Sinema will be primaried and lose.

America is fucked. Once the Republicans get in in 2022, the 2024 presidential election will be stolen, and it's bye bye democracy in America for the rest of our lifetimes.

1. I agree America is likely fucked. Trump and the GOP ARE putting the people and legislation in place to steal the next presidential election and they will likely succeed, especially as there are no obvious broad-appeal candidates around on the Democratic side who would win at the level needed to overcome such theft.

3. Hate Manchin and Sinema all you want (although I don't what the f**k Sinema's deal is; I don't know if anyone outside those who have presumably bought and paid for her do), but they're the only thing currently standing in the way of Mitch McConnell being back in charge and the GOP running all of the committees. There is simply no liberal Democratic majority to be had in the US Senate given the undemocratic design of that chamber. Its either the likes of Manchin or its a Trump whackjob. That's the choice, and its also the choice for three or four other states. Manchin is protecting his seat, and he's done so successfully for years in a very conservative state. Progressives can either rein in their ambitions or they can blow their wad on legislation which will either not pass the Senate or which will see them booted out of office and the legislation either revoked or simply not enforced by a GOP-controlled executive.
Manchin and Sinema are the very people who are blocking comprehensive federal voting rights and climate legislation.

They are an integral part of the problem.

When the Republicans steal the White House in 2024, they will have enabled it.

Progressives are rightly extremely angry with them, because progressives actually care about things like democracy and the future of the planet.

Those who are branded as "extreme" on the left are in fact moderates. The so called "moderates" are the extremists.

The American Nazi party exists on a different spectrum entirely. Blood sucking mortal enemies of humanity would be a kind description.

Last night was a demonstration that fascist propaganda works. And that should terrify us all.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:52:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 11:32:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.
Manchin and Sinema are the problem. 100% corrupt, bought and paid for, extremist political hijackers.

Manchin is the pocket of fossil fuels. Sinema is in the pocket of slash and burn big business.

They are the reason for Biden not being able to get common sense legislation through.

Neither Manchin nor Sinema are getting elected next time anyway. Manchin will lose in West Virginia and Sinema will be primaried and lose.

America is fucked. Once the Republicans get in in 2022, the 2024 presidential election will be stolen, and it's bye bye democracy in America for the rest of our lifetimes.

1. I agree America is likely fucked. Trump and the GOP ARE putting the people and legislation in place to steal the next presidential election and they will likely succeed, especially as there are no obvious broad-appeal candidates around on the Democratic side who would win at the level needed to overcome such theft.

3. Hate Manchin and Sinema all you want (although I don't what the f**k Sinema's deal is; I don't know if anyone outside those who have presumably bought and paid for her do), but they're the only thing currently standing in the way of Mitch McConnell being back in charge and the GOP running all of the committees. There is simply no liberal Democratic majority to be had in the US Senate given the undemocratic design of that chamber. Its either the likes of Manchin or its a Trump whackjob. That's the choice, and its also the choice for three or four other states. Manchin is protecting his seat, and he's done so successfully for years in a very conservative state. Progressives can either rein in their ambitions or they can blow their wad on legislation which will either not pass the Senate or which will see them booted out of office and the legislation either revoked or simply not enforced by a GOP-controlled executive.
Manchin and Sinema are the very people who are blocking comprehensive federal voting rights and climate legislation.

They are an integral part of the problem.

When the Republicans steal the White House in 2024, they will have enabled it.

Progressives are rightly extremely angry with them, because progressives actually care about things like democracy and the future of the planet.

Those who are branded as "extreme" on the left are in fact moderates. The so called "moderates" are the extremists.

The American Nazi party exists on a different spectrum entirely. Blood sucking mortal enemies of humanity would be a kind description.

Last night was a demonstration that fascist propaganda works. And that should terrify us all.

I don't necessarily disagree with much of that.

Just saying that the real world in the US is a different place to that which could and should exist.

You take what you can get and keep fighting. Playing defense against the insanity of the US right is important too.

No one with any sense should want to a return to the Trump rabble being in power.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

You're wrong (AGAIN)

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/explosive-documents-prove-mcauliffes-administration-pushed-crt-in-virginia-schools/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

You're wrong (AGAIN)

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/explosive-documents-prove-mcauliffes-administration-pushed-crt-in-virginia-schools/

Assuming that's true, what exactly is the problem? (It must be bad because I just saw a headline that said 25% of VA voters had it as their top issue!)

Is it, as RedHand88 claims, that six year olds are being taught its "bad" to be white?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 01:46:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

You're wrong (AGAIN)

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/explosive-documents-prove-mcauliffes-administration-pushed-crt-in-virginia-schools/

Assuming that's true, what exactly is the problem? (It must be bad because I just saw a headline that said 25% of VA voters had it as their top issue!)

Is it, as RedHand88 claims, that six year olds are being taught its "bad" to be white?
Whitey, as usual is completely wrong. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory in schools, as he claims.

The point is, it should.

Every school in the US should be taught it.

White society in the US needs a dose of reality and a serious dose of shame about its history and its present. The officially prescribed fake version history it believes is a lie.

Whitey and Red Hand88 are the types that would have Unionist propaganda shoved down the throat of every Catholic child in the North if they could.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:50:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

You're wrong (AGAIN)

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/explosive-documents-prove-mcauliffes-administration-pushed-crt-in-virginia-schools/

Assuming that's true, what exactly is the problem? (It must be bad because I just saw a headline that said 25% of VA voters had it as their top issue!)

Is it, as RedHand88 claims, that six year olds are being taught its "bad" to be white?

The problem from what I have seen and read is that some teachers are going rogue and teaching pretty crazy stuff. If parents object they're being told to sit down and shut up and are accused of being racists (Google it and you'll find lots of examples)

While not officially teaching CRT, some districts are using the same materials and research that underpin CRT  to teach other classes on things like diversity and inclusion

They're teaching  CRT, just calling it something else

By the way.....did you ever read White Fragility?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 01:46:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

You're wrong (AGAIN)

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/explosive-documents-prove-mcauliffes-administration-pushed-crt-in-virginia-schools/

Assuming that's true, what exactly is the problem? (It must be bad because I just saw a headline that said 25% of VA voters had it as their top issue!)

Is it, as RedHand88 claims, that six year olds are being taught its "bad" to be white?
Whitey, as usual is completely wrong. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory in schools, as he claims.

The point is, it should.

Every school in the US should be taught it.

White society in the US needs a dose of reality and a serious dose of shame about its history and its present. The officially prescribed fake version history it believes is a lie.

Whitey and Red Hand88 are the types that would have Unionist propaganda shoved down the throat of every Catholic child in the North if they could.

Sid-if you lived here, you'd know that the taxpayer (in the town) pays the salaries of the teachers, the principals and the school superintendent (in my town the Superintendent makes $172K)

Parents have every right to go to a school board meeting and voice concerns if they object to something that's being taught to their kids.  For the Democrats, their fall back position is that if you do that-you're a racist and a bigot, and while some concerned parents are racists and bigots, most are not.


What's interesting about what happened in Virginia, is that College Educated white people switched in large numbers from Democrat to Republican. These aren't toothless rednecks hanging on every word Fox News tells them. They know exactly what's being taught to their kids and they don't like it

(BTW-many of them voted for Obama twice and voted for Joe and Kamala just last year)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 02:09:42 PM
Fascist propaganda works.

The majority of Nazis didn't start out as rabid, frothing Jew haters. They were cultivated into them by propaganda.

Yet the Nazis of Germany had far, far less of a propaganda machine available to them than that available to their modern day Republican party equivalents.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 02:13:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 02:09:42 PM
Fascist propaganda works.

The majority of Nazis didn't start out as rabid, frothing Jew haters. They were cultivated into them by propaganda.

Yet the Nazis of Germany had far, far less of a propaganda machine available to them than that available to their modern day Republican party equivalents.


Oh I forgot, in addition to being called racists and bigots (by the Democrats) for speaking out, they're also called Nazis and Fascists


So somehow you know more about what's taught in Loudon County, Virginia than the people who actually live there and whose children and grandchildren attend schools there?  Interesting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 01:46:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

You're wrong (AGAIN)

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/explosive-documents-prove-mcauliffes-administration-pushed-crt-in-virginia-schools/

Assuming that's true, what exactly is the problem? (It must be bad because I just saw a headline that said 25% of VA voters had it as their top issue!)

Is it, as RedHand88 claims, that six year olds are being taught its "bad" to be white?
Whitey, as usual is completely wrong. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory in schools, as he claims.

The point is, it should.

Every school in the US should be taught it.

White society in the US needs a dose of reality and a serious dose of shame about its history and its present. The officially prescribed fake version history it believes is a lie.

Whitey and Red Hand88 are the types that would have Unionist propaganda shoved down the throat of every Catholic child in the North if they could.

There is no point talking to you anymore. You would have innocent children with no concept of race taught that they should be ashamed of something that happened 200 years ago.

Theres no reasoning with that logic. There is no meet in the middle. You arent going to come in from your crazy far left white hating cliff so I'm not wasting my time.

I cant be bothered anymore. I wish you well.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 03:23:23 PM
J70-I'm listening to Morning Joe on MSNBC

I'm paraphrasing Willie Geist (hardly a rabid Republican)

"While technically CRT is not being taught in Virginia schools, in reality many elements of CRT are in fact being taught in our schools"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 03, 2021, 04:00:16 PM
The Democrats (I am a left of center democrat voter...usually), are screwing up due to an increasing trend to focus on left leaning identity politics and not concentrating on bread and butter issues.

The "defund the police" movement was embraced by the squad until they realized it was election kryptonite,
McAuliffe's gaff on parents should not be involved in education was shocking, and election kryptonite
Murphy's gaff on if taxes are your issue then NJ is not the state for you was shocking, and election kryptonite
Joe's fossil fuel strategy is long term correct, but short term election kryptonite (high gas prices impact poor democrat voters more than "well off republicians)

Increasingly the democrats look like a party who are out of touch of the constituent's bread and butter issues.

Policing is an issue and needs to be fixed, but needs to be done with the police. Crime rates in democrat run city's needs to be solved and alienating the police is not smart politics. The party's image has been manipulated to an extent that they care more for criminal rights than for law abiding citizens and that they are handcuffing police's ability to get in control of crime

Education standards needs to be improved, focusing on political indoctrination is not the solution ( I am 100% behind teaching US history warts and all, and if CRT delivered that then I would be fully supportive, but if it also assigns white guilt to children then no way, f**k off. Why should my children have white guilt assigned to them when their mothers family moved to the states in the 80's and I moved in the early 00's. They have nothing to be ashamed about.

Also, the democrats in DC have a blind spot in their obsession with Trump and the Jan insurrection. Let the FBI handle the investigation, but FFS, they should be obsessed with getting things approved to demonstrate they can actually govern while in power and at the minute they are failing terribly. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 04:05:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 01:46:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

You're wrong (AGAIN)

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/explosive-documents-prove-mcauliffes-administration-pushed-crt-in-virginia-schools/

Assuming that's true, what exactly is the problem? (It must be bad because I just saw a headline that said 25% of VA voters had it as their top issue!)

Is it, as RedHand88 claims, that six year olds are being taught its "bad" to be white?
Whitey, as usual is completely wrong. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory in schools, as he claims.

The point is, it should.

Every school in the US should be taught it.

White society in the US needs a dose of reality and a serious dose of shame about its history and its present. The officially prescribed fake version history it believes is a lie.

Whitey and Red Hand88 are the types that would have Unionist propaganda shoved down the throat of every Catholic child in the North if they could.

There is no point talking to you anymore. You would have innocent children with no concept of race taught that they should be ashamed of something that happened 200 years ago.

Theres no reasoning with that logic. There is no meet in the middle. You arent going to come in from your crazy far left white hating cliff so I'm not wasting my time.

I cant be bothered anymore. I wish you well.

Cool. Let's just have a curriculum which teaches the TUV version of history in Northern Irish schools.

You can post in favour of that under the exact same logic.

And shure lets' start teaching German kids their country has nothing to be ashamed of over World War II. That there was no difference in the respective moral causes of Nazi Germany and those who fought to defeat them.

Yeah, great idea that.

Although funny enough, or not funny at all, teachers in Texas are now being told they have to give the "opposing view" of the Holocaust.

What is the "opposing view" of the Holocaust? That it didn't happen?

That's the sorry state America is in now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 04:28:46 PM
"Anti-woke" is white supremacism.

It's white supremacism first, white supremacism last, and white supremacism everywhere in between.

And you couldn't get a clearer example than the above poster.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 04:05:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 01:46:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

You're wrong (AGAIN)

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/explosive-documents-prove-mcauliffes-administration-pushed-crt-in-virginia-schools/

Assuming that's true, what exactly is the problem? (It must be bad because I just saw a headline that said 25% of VA voters had it as their top issue!)

Is it, as RedHand88 claims, that six year olds are being taught its "bad" to be white?
Whitey, as usual is completely wrong. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory in schools, as he claims.

The point is, it should.

Every school in the US should be taught it.

White society in the US needs a dose of reality and a serious dose of shame about its history and its present. The officially prescribed fake version history it believes is a lie.

Whitey and Red Hand88 are the types that would have Unionist propaganda shoved down the throat of every Catholic child in the North if they could.

There is no point talking to you anymore. You would have innocent children with no concept of race taught that they should be ashamed of something that happened 200 years ago.

Theres no reasoning with that logic. There is no meet in the middle. You arent going to come in from your crazy far left white hating cliff so I'm not wasting my time.

I cant be bothered anymore. I wish you well.

Cool. Let's just have a curriculum which teaches the TUV version of history in Northern Irish schools.

You can post in favour of that under the exact same logic.

And shure lets' start teaching German kids their country has nothing to be ashamed of over World War II. That there was no difference in the respective moral causes of Nazi Germany and those who fought to defeat them.

Yeah, great idea that.

Although funny enough, or not funny at all, teachers in Texas are now being told they have to give the "opposing view" of the Holocaust.

What is the "opposing view" of the Holocaust? That it didn't happen?

That's the sorry state America is in now.
democrats in Virginia are too busy covering up rapes of female students in transgender bathrooms , Sending campaign staff to youngkin rally dressed as nazis with tiki torches, sending fools to youngkin rally with confederate flags on their jackets . Plus having the worst president ever doesn't help
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 04:28:46 PM
"Anti-woke" is white supremacism.

It's white supremacism first, white supremacism last, and white supremacism everywhere in between.

And you couldn't get a clearer example than the above poster.

Please continue

Democrats are going to get wiped out next year if they keep going on this track
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 04:55:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 04:05:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 01:46:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
The Dems were toast once it was proven that critical race theory is being taught to elementary school children.
First of all what you've said there is a straight up lie. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory. So you're a liar.

But here's the thing. Any version of American history which doesn't include critical race theory is a white supremacist version of history.

In other words, fake history.

The Republican propaganda campaign against critical race theory is white supremacism and tyranny in action.

You're wrong (AGAIN)

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/explosive-documents-prove-mcauliffes-administration-pushed-crt-in-virginia-schools/

Assuming that's true, what exactly is the problem? (It must be bad because I just saw a headline that said 25% of VA voters had it as their top issue!)

Is it, as RedHand88 claims, that six year olds are being taught its "bad" to be white?
Whitey, as usual is completely wrong. Virginia doesn't teach critical race theory in schools, as he claims.

The point is, it should.

Every school in the US should be taught it.

White society in the US needs a dose of reality and a serious dose of shame about its history and its present. The officially prescribed fake version history it believes is a lie.

Whitey and Red Hand88 are the types that would have Unionist propaganda shoved down the throat of every Catholic child in the North if they could.

There is no point talking to you anymore. You would have innocent children with no concept of race taught that they should be ashamed of something that happened 200 years ago.

Theres no reasoning with that logic. There is no meet in the middle. You arent going to come in from your crazy far left white hating cliff so I'm not wasting my time.

I cant be bothered anymore. I wish you well.

Cool. Let's just have a curriculum which teaches the TUV version of history in Northern Irish schools.

You can post in favour of that under the exact same logic.

And shure lets' start teaching German kids their country has nothing to be ashamed of over World War II. That there was no difference in the respective moral causes of Nazi Germany and those who fought to defeat them.

Yeah, great idea that.

Although funny enough, or not funny at all, teachers in Texas are now being told they have to give the "opposing view" of the Holocaust.

What is the "opposing view" of the Holocaust? That it didn't happen?

That's the sorry state America is in now.
democrats in Virginia are too busy covering up rapes of female students in transgender bathrooms , Sending campaign staff to youngkin rally dressed as nazis with tiki torches, sending fools to youngkin rally with confederate flags on their jackets . Plus having the worst president ever doesn't help
You and the entirety of right wing America plead fealty to somebody who is credibly alleged to have raped a 13 year old.

You're fine with that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.

I wouldn't  call their motives honorable

I view it as a bunch of culture Nazis imposing their views on everyone else from their Ivory Towers and virtue signaling with a bunch of nonsense.

She never asked for feedback from parents-she just went ahead and did it. They pay her $183,000 salary-she works for them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 03, 2021, 05:29:03 PM
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/10/28/melrose-mayor-asks-community-to-avoid-personal-attacks-in-debate-over-halloween-in-schools/

"The superintendent said elementary schools will celebrate Halloween this year."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 05:31:25 PM
Quote from: dec on November 03, 2021, 05:29:03 PM
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/10/28/melrose-mayor-asks-community-to-avoid-personal-attacks-in-debate-over-halloween-in-schools/

"The superintendent said elementary schools will celebrate Halloween this year."

Forced to backtrack after thousands of people signed a petition

(Interesting back story on the superintendent)

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/11/16/embattled-scarborough-school-chief-wont-seek-new-contract/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 05:55:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.

I wouldn't  call their motives honorable

I view it as a bunch of culture Nazis imposing their views on everyone else from their Ivory Towers and virtue signaling with a bunch of nonsense.

She never asked for feedback from parents-she just went ahead and did it. They pay her $183,000 salary-she works for them

Regardless of her possible arrogance and presumption in how she went about it, and the over the top nature of what she proposed, her intent was to be inclusive and sensitive. Or at least I'm assuming so - nothing else makes sense.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2021, 06:09:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 05:55:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.

I wouldn't  call their motives honorable

I view it as a bunch of culture Nazis imposing their views on everyone else from their Ivory Towers and virtue signaling with a bunch of nonsense.

She never asked for feedback from parents-she just went ahead and did it. They pay her $183,000 salary-she works for them

Regardless of her possible arrogance and presumption in how she went about it, and the over the top nature of what she proposed, her intent was to be inclusive and sensitive. Or at least I'm assuming so - nothing else makes sense.

What evidence did she have that people felt left out or were offended by the Halloween celebrations ?

AFIK there has never been one single solitary complaint about Halloween from any parents

Average house price in Melrose must be pushing $1M. It has become a rich white persons town. Those people aren't going to put up with her crap
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2021, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 06:09:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 05:55:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.

I wouldn't  call their motives honorable

I view it as a bunch of culture Nazis imposing their views on everyone else from their Ivory Towers and virtue signaling with a bunch of nonsense.

She never asked for feedback from parents-she just went ahead and did it. They pay her $183,000 salary-she works for them

Regardless of her possible arrogance and presumption in how she went about it, and the over the top nature of what she proposed, her intent was to be inclusive and sensitive. Or at least I'm assuming so - nothing else makes sense.

What evidence did she have that people felt left out or were offended by the Halloween celebrations ?

AFIK there has never been one single solitary complaint about Halloween from any parents

Average house price in Melrose must be pushing $1M. It has become a rich white persons town. Those people aren't going to put up with her crap

I've no idea about any of that. Just speculating based on the little bit of info you've posted and common sense.

Which she appears to be lacking a little in.



Anyway, I'm not getting sucked back into this pointless thread. Just stuck my head in to say the Dems need to get their heads out of their arses, even if the GOP are still a lunatic, personality cult.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Good point, well put.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Good point, well put.
the Democrats on the school board in loudon county Virginia weren't too worried about offending the father of a 14 year old girl who was raped in a transgender bathroom, when he went to a school board Meeting they had him arrested and covered up for the rapist two times. Sick f$cks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 11:12:40 PM
The Republican party, and posters like whitey and GMac, are a cult devoted to a credibly alleged paedophile and serial rapist who tried to overthrow democracy in an armed fascist coup.

End of.

Every post they make should come with that spoiler alert.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 11:38:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Good point, well put.
the Democrats on the school board in loudon county Virginia weren't too worried about offending the father of a 14 year old girl who was raped in a transgender bathroom, when he went to a school board Meeting they had him arrested and covered up for the rapist two times. Sick f$cks
I don't know what you're reading but J70's  point was about Boston and this in particular about the side that poses as liberal anti-censure, freedom loving, one that would never be offended by any such celebratory events, "is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.". That in itself surpasses anything you've ever written on this thread by an infinite factor. And I suspect you're not bothered by that particular type of censorship.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 03, 2021, 11:50:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Good point, well put.
the Democrats on the school board in loudon county Virginia weren't too worried about offending the father of a 14 year old girl who was raped in a transgender bathroom, when he went to a school board Meeting they had him arrested and covered up for the rapist two times. Sick f$cks

https://reason.com/2021/11/01/conservatives-wrongly-portrayed-the-loudoun-county-sexual-assault-as-a-transgender-bathroom-issue/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 12:00:15 AM
Quote from: dec on November 03, 2021, 11:50:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Good point, well put.
the Democrats on the school board in loudon county Virginia weren't too worried about offending the father of a 14 year old girl who was raped in a transgender bathroom, when he went to a school board Meeting they had him arrested and covered up for the rapist two times. Sick f$cks

https://reason.com/2021/11/01/conservatives-wrongly-portrayed-the-loudoun-county-sexual-assault-as-a-transgender-bathroom-issue/
did they cover it up or not ? I made no issue about anything else
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2021, 12:35:08 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/1445188935387426821
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:21:50 AM
Critical Race Theory, as an academic discipline, focuses on how racism endures in society regardless of whether people personally embrace racist attitudes.  As such, it is the opposite of making people feel guilty because of slavery. 

As an example of critical race theory in action take the question of why a lower percentage of black people own their own homes today in the US? 

This is, in large part, because of decisions made by banks, and municipalities about who would get loans and who could live where.  Certain districts on Long Island, for example, had written into their regulations, that blacks couldn't own homes there, and we're talking mid-twentieth century here.  That's changed of course, but what it meant was that white families have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity that black families were never allowed to amass.  So black families, on average, have less wealth, because of institutionalized racist policies. 

Such policies have the effect that black families are at a disadvantage with respect to white families in terms of wealth.  Given how schools work in the US, that means that kids in poor areas (disproportionately black) attend schools with significantly less resources, and thus significantly worse outcomes.

All this happens whether or not white people have racist thoughts "in their hearts". 

This is all common sense to anyone with a modicum of common sense and knowledge of US history.  So, why is everyone up in arms about Critical Race Theory? 

Here's why:

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en (https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en)

Republican strategists have seized on this as a culture war issue, and are attempting to make every attempt to discuss race and justice seem like an attempt to make white people feel guilty.

Yes, some activists might be trying to do make white people feel guilty, but that is decidedly not what critical race theory is about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2021, 02:15:30 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:21:50 AM
Critical Race Theory, as an academic discipline, focuses on how racism endures in society regardless of whether people personally embrace racist attitudes.  As such, it is the opposite of making people feel guilty because of slavery. 

As an example of critical race theory in action take the question of why a lower percentage of black people own their own homes today in the US? 

This is, in large part, because of decisions made by banks, and municipalities about who would get loans and who could live where.  Certain districts on Long Island, for example, had written into their regulations, that blacks couldn't own homes there, and we're talking mid-twentieth century here.  That's changed of course, but what it meant was that white families have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity that black families were never allowed to amass.  So black families, on average, have less wealth, because of institutionalized racist policies. 

Such policies have the effect that black families are at a disadvantage with respect to white families in terms of wealth.  Given how schools work in the US, that means that kids in poor areas (disproportionately black) attend schools with significantly less resources, and thus significantly worse outcomes.

All this happens whether or not white people have racist thoughts "in their hearts". 

This is all common sense to anyone with a modicum of common sense and knowledge of US history.  So, why is everyone up in arms about Critical Race Theory? 

Here's why:

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en (https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en)

Republican strategists have seized on this as a culture war issue, and are attempting to make every attempt to discuss race and justice seem like an attempt to make white people feel guilty.

Yes, some activists might be trying to do make white people feel guilty, but that is decidedly not what critical race theory is about.

So what is a good age to start teaching these important lessons?


FWIW I have read a bunch of anti racist books-"White Fragility" and "How to be an anti racist" in particular stick out, and I have to say I have never read such a bunch of codswallop in my born days

I would be pretty upset if rubbish like this (what's in these 2 books) was being taught to my kids

The way you describe CRT is pretty accurate and is well intentioned, but my guess is that some teachers are going rogue and using it to further other agendas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 02:15:30 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:21:50 AM
Critical Race Theory, as an academic discipline, focuses on how racism endures in society regardless of whether people personally embrace racist attitudes.  As such, it is the opposite of making people feel guilty because of slavery. 

As an example of critical race theory in action take the question of why a lower percentage of black people own their own homes today in the US? 

This is, in large part, because of decisions made by banks, and municipalities about who would get loans and who could live where.  Certain districts on Long Island, for example, had written into their regulations, that blacks couldn't own homes there, and we're talking mid-twentieth century here.  That's changed of course, but what it meant was that white families have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity that black families were never allowed to amass.  So black families, on average, have less wealth, because of institutionalized racist policies. 

Such policies have the effect that black families are at a disadvantage with respect to white families in terms of wealth.  Given how schools work in the US, that means that kids in poor areas (disproportionately black) attend schools with significantly less resources, and thus significantly worse outcomes.

All this happens whether or not white people have racist thoughts "in their hearts". 

This is all common sense to anyone with a modicum of common sense and knowledge of US history.  So, why is everyone up in arms about Critical Race Theory? 

Here's why:

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en (https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en)

Republican strategists have seized on this as a culture war issue, and are attempting to make every attempt to discuss race and justice seem like an attempt to make white people feel guilty.

Yes, some activists might be trying to do make white people feel guilty, but that is decidedly not what critical race theory is about.

So what is a good age to start teaching these important lessons?


FWIW I have read a bunch of anti racist books-"White Fragility" and "How to be an anti racist" in particular stick out, and I have to say I have never read such a bunch of codswallop in my born days

I would be pretty upset if rubbish like this (what's in these 2 books) was being taught to my kids

The way you describe CRT is pretty accurate and is well intentioned, but my guess is that some teachers are going rogue and using it to further other agendas

Do "other agendas" include the Christopher Rufo-inspired, Tucker Carlson/Fox News-driven movement to hype and harness this issue as a political football?

Haven't read those books BTW (I think you asked that yesterday).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2021, 11:53:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 12:00:15 AM
Quote from: dec on November 03, 2021, 11:50:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Good point, well put.
the Democrats on the school board in loudon county Virginia weren't too worried about offending the father of a 14 year old girl who was raped in a transgender bathroom, when he went to a school board Meeting they had him arrested and covered up for the rapist two times. Sick f$cks

https://reason.com/2021/11/01/conservatives-wrongly-portrayed-the-loudoun-county-sexual-assault-as-a-transgender-bathroom-issue/
did they cover it up or not ? I made no issue about anything else

You pretty clearly implied that this issue was about transgender bathrooms and that issue's influence on the school board's decision making.

And got caught talking absolute shite yet again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2021, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 02:15:30 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:21:50 AM
Critical Race Theory, as an academic discipline, focuses on how racism endures in society regardless of whether people personally embrace racist attitudes.  As such, it is the opposite of making people feel guilty because of slavery. 

As an example of critical race theory in action take the question of why a lower percentage of black people own their own homes today in the US? 

This is, in large part, because of decisions made by banks, and municipalities about who would get loans and who could live where.  Certain districts on Long Island, for example, had written into their regulations, that blacks couldn't own homes there, and we're talking mid-twentieth century here.  That's changed of course, but what it meant was that white families have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity that black families were never allowed to amass.  So black families, on average, have less wealth, because of institutionalized racist policies. 

Such policies have the effect that black families are at a disadvantage with respect to white families in terms of wealth.  Given how schools work in the US, that means that kids in poor areas (disproportionately black) attend schools with significantly less resources, and thus significantly worse outcomes.

All this happens whether or not white people have racist thoughts "in their hearts". 

This is all common sense to anyone with a modicum of common sense and knowledge of US history.  So, why is everyone up in arms about Critical Race Theory? 

Here's why:

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en (https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en)

Republican strategists have seized on this as a culture war issue, and are attempting to make every attempt to discuss race and justice seem like an attempt to make white people feel guilty.

Yes, some activists might be trying to do make white people feel guilty, but that is decidedly not what critical race theory is about.

So what is a good age to start teaching these important lessons?


FWIW I have read a bunch of anti racist books-"White Fragility" and "How to be an anti racist" in particular stick out, and I have to say I have never read such a bunch of codswallop in my born days

I would be pretty upset if rubbish like this (what's in these 2 books) was being taught to my kids

The way you describe CRT is pretty accurate and is well intentioned, but my guess is that some teachers are going rogue and using it to further other agendas

Do "other agendas" include the Christopher Rufo-inspired, Tucker Carlson/Fox News-driven movement to hype and harness this issue as a political football?

Haven't read those books BTW (I think you asked that yesterday).

No idea, but I do see the word intersectional used a lot and IMHO that gives teachers a free reign to completely stray off topic and indoctrinate kids


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 04, 2021, 12:36:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 11:53:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 12:00:15 AM
Quote from: dec on November 03, 2021, 11:50:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Good point, well put.
the Democrats on the school board in loudon county Virginia weren't too worried about offending the father of a 14 year old girl who was raped in a transgender bathroom, when he went to a school board Meeting they had him arrested and covered up for the rapist two times. Sick f$cks

https://reason.com/2021/11/01/conservatives-wrongly-portrayed-the-loudoun-county-sexual-assault-as-a-transgender-bathroom-issue/
did they cover it up or not ? I made no issue about anything else

You pretty clearly implied that this issue was about transgender bathrooms and that issue's influence on the school board's decision making.

And got caught talking absolute shite yet again.
The story was in fact about the following:
i) The rape culture among young males - which the entirety of right-wing America simultaneously both indulges and denies. It denies there is such a culture among males in general, yet simultaneously claims there is such a culture among black males, in order to portray white males in general as virtuous because of their skin colour.

ii) The right-wing bullshit machine's constant efforts to completely demonise minorities it hates - in this case trans people. Trans people had nothing whatsoever to do with this bullshit "story".

There was a sexual assault by a male against a female.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 02:15:30 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:21:50 AM
Critical Race Theory, as an academic discipline, focuses on how racism endures in society regardless of whether people personally embrace racist attitudes.  As such, it is the opposite of making people feel guilty because of slavery. 

As an example of critical race theory in action take the question of why a lower percentage of black people own their own homes today in the US? 

This is, in large part, because of decisions made by banks, and municipalities about who would get loans and who could live where.  Certain districts on Long Island, for example, had written into their regulations, that blacks couldn't own homes there, and we're talking mid-twentieth century here.  That's changed of course, but what it meant was that white families have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity that black families were never allowed to amass.  So black families, on average, have less wealth, because of institutionalized racist policies. 

Such policies have the effect that black families are at a disadvantage with respect to white families in terms of wealth.  Given how schools work in the US, that means that kids in poor areas (disproportionately black) attend schools with significantly less resources, and thus significantly worse outcomes.

All this happens whether or not white people have racist thoughts "in their hearts". 

This is all common sense to anyone with a modicum of common sense and knowledge of US history.  So, why is everyone up in arms about Critical Race Theory? 

Here's why:

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en (https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en)

Republican strategists have seized on this as a culture war issue, and are attempting to make every attempt to discuss race and justice seem like an attempt to make white people feel guilty.

Yes, some activists might be trying to do make white people feel guilty, but that is decidedly not what critical race theory is about.

So what is a good age to start teaching these important lessons?


FWIW I have read a bunch of anti racist books-"White Fragility" and "How to be an anti racist" in particular stick out, and I have to say I have never read such a bunch of codswallop in my born days

I would be pretty upset if rubbish like this (what's in these 2 books) was being taught to my kids

The way you describe CRT is pretty accurate and is well intentioned, but my guess is that some teachers are going rogue and using it to further other agendas

Do "other agendas" include the Christopher Rufo-inspired, Tucker Carlson/Fox News-driven movement to hype and harness this issue as a political football?

Haven't read those books BTW (I think you asked that yesterday).

No idea, but I do see the word intersectional used a lot and IMHO that gives teachers a free reign to completely stray off topic and indoctrinate kids

Do you have any examples of "intersectionality" being used by teachers to "completely stray off topic and indoctrinate kids"?

Where are the six year olds being taught that white = bad?

Living in a fairly liberal city my kids should be ripe for this type of indoctrination, but I've yet to see anything even remotely like what the hysterical white grievance movement is alleging.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 04, 2021, 01:21:24 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:21:50 AM
Critical Race Theory, as an academic discipline, focuses on how racism endures in society regardless of whether people personally embrace racist attitudes.  As such, it is the opposite of making people feel guilty because of slavery. 

As an example of critical race theory in action take the question of why a lower percentage of black people own their own homes today in the US? 

This is, in large part, because of decisions made by banks, and municipalities about who would get loans and who could live where.  Certain districts on Long Island, for example, had written into their regulations, that blacks couldn't own homes there, and we're talking mid-twentieth century here.  That's changed of course, but what it meant was that white families have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity that black families were never allowed to amass.  So black families, on average, have less wealth, because of institutionalized racist policies. 

Such policies have the effect that black families are at a disadvantage with respect to white families in terms of wealth.  Given how schools work in the US, that means that kids in poor areas (disproportionately black) attend schools with significantly less resources, and thus significantly worse outcomes.

All this happens whether or not white people have racist thoughts "in their hearts". 

This is all common sense to anyone with a modicum of common sense and knowledge of US history.  So, why is everyone up in arms about Critical Race Theory? 

Here's why:

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en (https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en)

Republican strategists have seized on this as a culture war issue, and are attempting to make every attempt to discuss race and justice seem like an attempt to make white people feel guilty.

Yes, some activists might be trying to do make white people feel guilty, but that is decidedly not what critical race theory is about.

If CRT is to become a staple piece in the education program, should the democratic party / education officials need to do a better job in communicating with parents about CRT, objectives, and teaching style to shut this down as an issue. As I've said previously, I'm a left of center democrat, but I've no idea if and how CRT is incorporated into the education system.

For example;

What is an academic discipline?

Should critical race theory be a policy within a schools academic program, or a subset of the academic program?

Is it ok to set different scoring scales for different ethnic groupings in standardized testing due to the american education system was set up to  enforce "white supremacy" (De Blasio NYC specialist high school program)

Should it be taught in a civics class or history class or should it have its own stand alone class?

Should it be taught along with other social constructs; eg Marxism, socialism, capitalism, fascism, colonialism CRT etc

How it's taught; is it ok to separate white and non white kids into separate classes to teach the subject,  are there guidelines in place to not assert white guilt onto young children

Why are the democrats not doing a better job of explaining CRT if it is so important to their program.

And until they do, parents have a 100% right to challenge the school boards until they get clarity what is going on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2021, 01:30:39 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 04, 2021, 01:21:24 PM

If CRT is to become a staple piece in the education program, should the democratic party / education officials need to do a better job in communicating with parents about CRT, objectives, and teaching style to shut this down as an issue. As I've said previously, I'm a left of center democrat, but I've no idea if and how CRT is incorporated into the education system.

For example;

What is an academic discipline?

Should critical race theory be a policy within a schools academic program, or a subset of the academic program?

Is it ok to set different scoring scales for different ethnic groupings in standardized testing due to the american education system was set up to  enforce "white supremacy" (De Blasio NYC specialist high school program)

Should it be taught in a civics class or history class or should it have its own stand alone class?

Should it be taught along with other social constructs; eg Marxism, socialism, capitalism, fascism, colonialism CRT etc

How it's taught; is it ok to separate white and non white kids into separate classes to teach the subject,  are there guidelines in place to not assert white guilt onto young children

Why are the democrats not doing a better job of explaining CRT if it is so important to their program.

And until they do, parents have a 100% right to challenge the school boards until they get clarity what is going on.

I've never heard any Democrat claim CRT is important to their program.

I've never heard of it in NYC schools, where my kids and my nephews are. And I'm very hands-on with what my kids are doing in school and homework.

The only reason we're hearing about this is because Fox News found a guy who saw some diversity training he didn't approve of and decided it would be a very effective political football to rile up the masses. Six months from now we'll be back to cancel culture. Or transgender bathrooms. Or stopping the steal again.

Next up we're due for another War on Christmas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 04, 2021, 01:37:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 04, 2021, 12:36:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 11:53:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 12:00:15 AM
Quote from: dec on November 03, 2021, 11:50:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Good point, well put.
the Democrats on the school board in loudon county Virginia weren't too worried about offending the father of a 14 year old girl who was raped in a transgender bathroom, when he went to a school board Meeting they had him arrested and covered up for the rapist two times. Sick f$cks

https://reason.com/2021/11/01/conservatives-wrongly-portrayed-the-loudoun-county-sexual-assault-as-a-transgender-bathroom-issue/
did they cover it up or not ? I made no issue about anything else

You pretty clearly implied that this issue was about transgender bathrooms and that issue's influence on the school board's decision making.

And got caught talking absolute shite yet again.
The story was in fact about the following:
i) The rape culture among young males - which the entirety of right-wing America simultaneously both indulges and denies. It denies there is such a culture among males in general, yet simultaneously claims there is such a culture among black males, in order to portray white males in general as virtuous because of their skin colour.

ii) The right-wing bullshit machine's constant efforts to completely demonise minorities it hates - in this case trans people. Trans people had nothing whatsoever to do with this bullshit "story".

There was a sexual assault by a male against a female.

Sid, one issue that I didn't like in this example was that this case was referenced in the letter that was sent to the USAG as an example of domestic terrorism at school board meetings. Merrick Garland based part of his decision to set up an FBI program to work with local authorities on that letter.

Terrible optics.

Also, was the boy trans gender? This seems to be an issue in that it was originally reported that he was, he wears a skirt to school etc, but once the rape came out the school board et al referred to him as a boy.  This has left the school board etc in a weakened positioned and open to attack. Needs some clarity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Kickham csc on November 04, 2021, 01:42:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 01:30:39 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 04, 2021, 01:21:24 PM

If CRT is to become a staple piece in the education program, should the democratic party / education officials need to do a better job in communicating with parents about CRT, objectives, and teaching style to shut this down as an issue. As I've said previously, I'm a left of center democrat, but I've no idea if and how CRT is incorporated into the education system.

For example;

What is an academic discipline?

Should critical race theory be a policy within a schools academic program, or a subset of the academic program?

Is it ok to set different scoring scales for different ethnic groupings in standardized testing due to the american education system was set up to  enforce "white supremacy" (De Blasio NYC specialist high school program)

Should it be taught in a civics class or history class or should it have its own stand alone class?

Should it be taught along with other social constructs; eg Marxism, socialism, capitalism, fascism, colonialism CRT etc

How it's taught; is it ok to separate white and non white kids into separate classes to teach the subject,  are there guidelines in place to not assert white guilt onto young children

Why are the democrats not doing a better job of explaining CRT if it is so important to their program.

And until they do, parents have a 100% right to challenge the school boards until they get clarity what is going on.

I've never heard any Democrat claim CRT is important to their program.

I've never heard of it in NYC schools, where my kids and my nephews are. And I'm very hands-on with what my kids are doing in school and homework.

The only reason we're hearing about this is because Fox News found a guy who saw some diversity training he didn't approve of and decided it would be a very effective political football to rile up the masses. Six months from now we'll be back to cancel culture. Or transgender bathrooms. Or stopping the steal again.

Next up we're due for another War on Christmas.

De Blasio was trying to base policy based on CRT. He basically came out and said that there were too many asians in the specialist schools and that acceptance into the schools should be representative the demographics of the city and not solely based on test scores.

In other areas you hear of CRT being taught in schools.

That's the reason for my question, Should critical race theory be a policy within a schools academic program, or a subset of the academic program? Either way there needs to be clarity
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2021, 01:58:20 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 04, 2021, 01:42:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 01:30:39 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 04, 2021, 01:21:24 PM

If CRT is to become a staple piece in the education program, should the democratic party / education officials need to do a better job in communicating with parents about CRT, objectives, and teaching style to shut this down as an issue. As I've said previously, I'm a left of center democrat, but I've no idea if and how CRT is incorporated into the education system.

For example;

What is an academic discipline?

Should critical race theory be a policy within a schools academic program, or a subset of the academic program?

Is it ok to set different scoring scales for different ethnic groupings in standardized testing due to the american education system was set up to  enforce "white supremacy" (De Blasio NYC specialist high school program)

Should it be taught in a civics class or history class or should it have its own stand alone class?

Should it be taught along with other social constructs; eg Marxism, socialism, capitalism, fascism, colonialism CRT etc

How it's taught; is it ok to separate white and non white kids into separate classes to teach the subject,  are there guidelines in place to not assert white guilt onto young children

Why are the democrats not doing a better job of explaining CRT if it is so important to their program.

And until they do, parents have a 100% right to challenge the school boards until they get clarity what is going on.

I've never heard any Democrat claim CRT is important to their program.

I've never heard of it in NYC schools, where my kids and my nephews are. And I'm very hands-on with what my kids are doing in school and homework.

The only reason we're hearing about this is because Fox News found a guy who saw some diversity training he didn't approve of and decided it would be a very effective political football to rile up the masses. Six months from now we'll be back to cancel culture. Or transgender bathrooms. Or stopping the steal again.

Next up we're due for another War on Christmas.

De Blasio was trying to base policy based on CRT. He basically came out and said that there were too many asians in the specialist schools and that acceptance into the schools should be representative the demographics of the city and not solely based on test scores.

In other areas you hear of CRT being taught in schools.

That's the reason for my question, Should critical race theory be a policy within a schools academic program, or a subset of the academic program? Either way there needs to be clarity

DeBlasio is a fool on many fronts. And part of the reason the city opted for a centrist like Eric Adams, who is going to continue the G&T programs and specialist schools. Obviously he will need to try to improve the ability of black and latino students to get into those schools.

But that's a separate issue to CRT.

I don't understand what you mean by within or as a subset of the academic program.

If you're asking whether students should be educated on the history of slavery and discrimination, and the present-day legacy of racism and discrimination, then IMO of course they should. I don't know how that should happen, but I sure as hell know that trying to downplay the role of slavery and discrimination in American history, as the conservative movement is bent on doing, is absolutely not how we should be proceeding.

Not sure about anyone else, but I was taught the "English bastards" version of Irish history growing up, completely absent of the context of wider European geopolitics which absolutely played a role in what they did. Such a slanted approach didn't do me or those around me any favours.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 02:22:00 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 04, 2021, 01:21:24 PM

For example;

What is an academic discipline?

I'm not sure if this was rhetorical, or a genuine question, but in case the latter: A field of study. For example, history, physics, sociology. 

Should critical race theory be a policy within a schools academic program, or a subset of the academic program?

I don't understand the difference between the policy being within a program and being a subset of a program.

Is it ok to set different scoring scales for different ethnic groupings in standardized testing due to the american education system was set up to  enforce "white supremacy" (De Blasio NYC specialist high school program)

I don't think this approach is OK. I suspect it would fall foul of Supreme Court decisions against affirmative action policies.

Should it be taught in a civics class or history class or should it have its own stand alone class?
Should it be taught along with other social constructs; eg Marxism, socialism, capitalism, fascism, colonialism CRT etc

I would think that should be decided by school boards, or perhaps by state laws.

How it's taught; is it ok to separate white and non white kids into separate classes to teach the subject,  are there guidelines in place to not assert white guilt onto young children

I wouldn't suggest separating the kids, no. I haven't heard this suggested though.  If we're talking about critical race theory as the theorists themselves understand it, white guilt isn't part of the program.  If we can teach about capitalism/poverty without making rich kids feel guilty, it ought to be possible to teach about the historical roots of contemporary racial inequality without making white kids feel guilty.  Whatever guidelines are in place for the former could just carry over to the latter.

Why are the democrats not doing a better job of explaining CRT if it is so important to their program.

I'm not sure it is important to the Democrats' program.  Some Democrats no doubt support it.  Others wouldn't see it as a priority.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 11:53:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 12:00:15 AM
Quote from: dec on November 03, 2021, 11:50:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 03, 2021, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 03, 2021, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
Here's the type of lunacy which we have to deal with in Massachusetts

Halloween "deemphasized" in Melrose Massachusetts in an effort to be "more inclusive"

I get it that Christmas and Columbus Day might not be entirely inclusive, but FFS after the year kids have had, let's take all the joy out of Halloween while we're at it.

Do these people just sit around and concoct solutions to problems which don't exist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2021/10/jimmy-kimmel-reacts-to-melrose-superintendents-decision-to-deemphasize-halloween-whos-feeling-marginalized-by-a-halloween-party.html%3foutputType=amp

(Kümmel joked that the superintendent's house will probably get egged. Now he's being accused of inciting violence against her)

To me, that's the other side of the coin from the CRT hysteria.

One side is scared shitless of leaving anyone out or offending anyone (at least their motives are honourable), the other is absolutely determined that the real, historical enslavement and oppression suffered by some groups of Americans be whitewashed over lest their kids have to grow up knowing that their country has treated those groups like shit and that that has had ongoing effects down to this day.

Thankfully, my kids get to learn about MLK and Rosa Parks and their noble struggle, while at the same time their very diverse public school allows them to wear their costumes in for a Halloween celebration.
Good point, well put.
the Democrats on the school board in loudon county Virginia weren't too worried about offending the father of a 14 year old girl who was raped in a transgender bathroom, when he went to a school board Meeting they had him arrested and covered up for the rapist two times. Sick f$cks

https://reason.com/2021/11/01/conservatives-wrongly-portrayed-the-loudoun-county-sexual-assault-as-a-transgender-bathroom-issue/
did they cover it up or not ? I made no issue about anything else

You pretty clearly implied that this issue was about transgender bathrooms and that issue's influence on the school board's decision making.

And got caught talking absolute shite yet again.
believe what you want but  this issue and maccauliffe telling parents it's none of their business what goes on in public schools is why he lost , 2022 the Democrats will be obliterated .
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 02:15:30 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:21:50 AM
Critical Race Theory, as an academic discipline, focuses on how racism endures in society regardless of whether people personally embrace racist attitudes.  As such, it is the opposite of making people feel guilty because of slavery. 

As an example of critical race theory in action take the question of why a lower percentage of black people own their own homes today in the US? 

This is, in large part, because of decisions made by banks, and municipalities about who would get loans and who could live where.  Certain districts on Long Island, for example, had written into their regulations, that blacks couldn't own homes there, and we're talking mid-twentieth century here.  That's changed of course, but what it meant was that white families have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity that black families were never allowed to amass.  So black families, on average, have less wealth, because of institutionalized racist policies. 

Such policies have the effect that black families are at a disadvantage with respect to white families in terms of wealth.  Given how schools work in the US, that means that kids in poor areas (disproportionately black) attend schools with significantly less resources, and thus significantly worse outcomes.

All this happens whether or not white people have racist thoughts "in their hearts". 

This is all common sense to anyone with a modicum of common sense and knowledge of US history.  So, why is everyone up in arms about Critical Race Theory? 

Here's why:

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en (https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en)

Republican strategists have seized on this as a culture war issue, and are attempting to make every attempt to discuss race and justice seem like an attempt to make white people feel guilty.

Yes, some activists might be trying to do make white people feel guilty, but that is decidedly not what critical race theory is about.

So what is a good age to start teaching these important lessons?


FWIW I have read a bunch of anti racist books-"White Fragility" and "How to be an anti racist" in particular stick out, and I have to say I have never read such a bunch of codswallop in my born days

I would be pretty upset if rubbish like this (what's in these 2 books) was being taught to my kids

The way you describe CRT is pretty accurate and is well intentioned, but my guess is that some teachers are going rogue and using it to further other agendas

Do "other agendas" include the Christopher Rufo-inspired, Tucker Carlson/Fox News-driven movement to hype and harness this issue as a political football?

Haven't read those books BTW (I think you asked that yesterday).

No idea, but I do see the word intersectional used a lot and IMHO that gives teachers a free reign to completely stray off topic and indoctrinate kids

Do you have any examples of "intersectionality" being used by teachers to "completely stray off topic and indoctrinate kids"?

Where are the six year olds being taught that white = bad?

Living in a fairly liberal city my kids should be ripe for this type of indoctrination, but I've yet to see anything even remotely like what the hysterical white grievance movement is alleging.

Well what I would regard as "indoctrination" you may not-you may view it as something else

In our local High School (which my kids don't attend) I've been told by other parents that the BLM/LBTGQ factions have merged to essentially become the thought and word police. If you don't go along with or agree with them....watch out. They have been empowered by certain teachers and school board members to essentially bully the rest of the students into submission

This isn't my town, but this is the kind of nonsense I'm referring to

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/news/2021/10/wellesley-public-schools-sued-over-racial-affinity-groups-biased-speech-policy.html%3foutputType=amp


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 04, 2021, 05:31:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 02:15:30 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:21:50 AM
Critical Race Theory, as an academic discipline, focuses on how racism endures in society regardless of whether people personally embrace racist attitudes.  As such, it is the opposite of making people feel guilty because of slavery. 

As an example of critical race theory in action take the question of why a lower percentage of black people own their own homes today in the US? 

This is, in large part, because of decisions made by banks, and municipalities about who would get loans and who could live where.  Certain districts on Long Island, for example, had written into their regulations, that blacks couldn't own homes there, and we're talking mid-twentieth century here.  That's changed of course, but what it meant was that white families have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity that black families were never allowed to amass.  So black families, on average, have less wealth, because of institutionalized racist policies. 

Such policies have the effect that black families are at a disadvantage with respect to white families in terms of wealth.  Given how schools work in the US, that means that kids in poor areas (disproportionately black) attend schools with significantly less resources, and thus significantly worse outcomes.

All this happens whether or not white people have racist thoughts "in their hearts". 

This is all common sense to anyone with a modicum of common sense and knowledge of US history.  So, why is everyone up in arms about Critical Race Theory? 

Here's why:

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en (https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416?lang=en)

Republican strategists have seized on this as a culture war issue, and are attempting to make every attempt to discuss race and justice seem like an attempt to make white people feel guilty.

Yes, some activists might be trying to do make white people feel guilty, but that is decidedly not what critical race theory is about.

So what is a good age to start teaching these important lessons?


FWIW I have read a bunch of anti racist books-"White Fragility" and "How to be an anti racist" in particular stick out, and I have to say I have never read such a bunch of codswallop in my born days

I would be pretty upset if rubbish like this (what's in these 2 books) was being taught to my kids

The way you describe CRT is pretty accurate and is well intentioned, but my guess is that some teachers are going rogue and using it to further other agendas

Do "other agendas" include the Christopher Rufo-inspired, Tucker Carlson/Fox News-driven movement to hype and harness this issue as a political football?

Haven't read those books BTW (I think you asked that yesterday).

No idea, but I do see the word intersectional used a lot and IMHO that gives teachers a free reign to completely stray off topic and indoctrinate kids

Do you have any examples of "intersectionality" being used by teachers to "completely stray off topic and indoctrinate kids"?

Where are the six year olds being taught that white = bad?

Living in a fairly liberal city my kids should be ripe for this type of indoctrination, but I've yet to see anything even remotely like what the hysterical white grievance movement is alleging.

Well what I would regard as "indoctrination" you may not-you may view it as something else

In our local High School (which my kids don't attend) I've been told by other parents that the BLM/LBTGQ factions have merged to essentially become the thought and word police. If you don't go along with or agree with them....watch out. They have been empowered by certain teachers and school board members to essentially bully the rest of the students into submission

This isn't my town, but this is the kind of nonsense I'm referring to

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/news/2021/10/wellesley-public-schools-sued-over-racial-affinity-groups-biased-speech-policy.html%3foutputType=amp




Which bit do you think is nonsense?

The affinity groups or the group suing the school district over the existence of the affinity groups.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 04, 2021, 05:31:59 PM
I don't see the problem with minority groups of kids getting together to discuss their particular group-based experiences. You can't ignore the context of history and the reality that race does play a role in society, often to the detriment of those people. Like it or not, there's generally no good reason why a whites-only group would need to exist in America.

On indoctrination, just about everything kids are learning at that age is indoctrination if you want to look at it that way. Its not like there's independent thought or research demanded of them. Your issue is that you don't like WHAT they're being indoctrinated with.

On the BLM stuff in that school, personally I think BLM is the morally right side. I've no tolerance for the All Lives Matter crap; its just more white grievance bullshit. But... I think the schools should leave any of that politically charged stuff like marching or displaying symbols at the door. Talk about it in debate class or whatever. Teach kids about tolerance and the value and dignity of everyone, regardless of their race or sexuality or gender identity. Teach them that bigotry and intolerance are repugnant. And leave it at that.

I predict you'll still get the loudmouths screaming at the school board meeting, but its a lot easier to stand your ground.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 04, 2021, 05:58:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 05:31:59 PM
I don't see the problem with minority groups of kids getting together to discuss their particular group-based experiences. You can't ignore the context of history and the reality that race does play a role in society, often to the detriment of those people. Like it or not, there's generally no good reason why a whites-only group would need to exist in America.

On indoctrination, just about everything kids are learning at that age is indoctrination if you want to look at it that way. Its not like there's independent thought or research demanded of them. Your issue is that you don't like WHAT they're being indoctrinated with.

On the BLM stuff in that school, personally I think BLM is the morally right side. I've no tolerance for the All Lives Matter crap; its just more white grievance bullshit. But... I think the schools should leave any of that politically charged stuff like marching or displaying symbols at the door. Talk about it in debate class or whatever. Teach kids about tolerance and the value and dignity of everyone, regardless of their race or sexuality or gender identity. Teach them that bigotry and intolerance are repugnant. And leave it at that.

I predict you'll still get the loudmouths screaming at the school board meeting, but its a lot easier to stand your ground.

Neither do I have a problem with " minority groups of kids getting together to discuss their particular group-based experiences"

I have a problem with school  allowing these groups to bully people who don't agree with them because they're afraid to stand up to them

I have a friend who's a cop and a bunch of the LBTGQ students at his daughters school jumped on the BLM/Defund bandwagon. When she responded by putting up a Blue Lives Matter post on her Instagram page, all hell broke loose and she was accused of bullying by not only the students but also by their parents.

A lesbian teacher in the school had actually attended several BLM protests with the LBTGQ students and their parents and was driving a lot of this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 05, 2021, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2021, 05:58:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2021, 05:31:59 PM
I don't see the problem with minority groups of kids getting together to discuss their particular group-based experiences. You can't ignore the context of history and the reality that race does play a role in society, often to the detriment of those people. Like it or not, there's generally no good reason why a whites-only group would need to exist in America.

On indoctrination, just about everything kids are learning at that age is indoctrination if you want to look at it that way. Its not like there's independent thought or research demanded of them. Your issue is that you don't like WHAT they're being indoctrinated with.

On the BLM stuff in that school, personally I think BLM is the morally right side. I've no tolerance for the All Lives Matter crap; its just more white grievance bullshit. But... I think the schools should leave any of that politically charged stuff like marching or displaying symbols at the door. Talk about it in debate class or whatever. Teach kids about tolerance and the value and dignity of everyone, regardless of their race or sexuality or gender identity. Teach them that bigotry and intolerance are repugnant. And leave it at that.

I predict you'll still get the loudmouths screaming at the school board meeting, but its a lot easier to stand your ground.

Neither do I have a problem with " minority groups of kids getting together to discuss their particular group-based experiences"

I have a problem with school  allowing these groups to bully people who don't agree with them because they're afraid to stand up to them

I have a friend who's a cop and a bunch of the LBTGQ students at his daughters school jumped on the BLM/Defund bandwagon. When she responded by putting up a Blue Lives Matter post on her Instagram page, all hell broke loose and she was accused of bullying by not only the students but also by their parents.

A lesbian teacher in the school had actually attended several BLM protests with the LBTGQ students and their parents and was driving a lot of this

Ok. I can't speak to your friend's experience. There are arseholes on the side of every issue, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the issue itself. Adults need to show children the correct way to behave and interact.

Its not going to get better though. Trump and his movement, which is based completely on hyper-aggressive disrespect and demonization of "the other", is probably going to be foisted on the country again in a couple of years if the Dems don't get their shit together.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 05, 2021, 06:29:25 PM
Eh.....one of the Democrats "unaccompanied minors" was actually 24 years old, and was released with a "notice to appear".  Guess what.....he just murdered someone! 




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .

Assuming all you say is true (not a remotely safe assumption with you at any time), still by far the lesser of two evils.

Get back to us when your shower come to their senses with Trump, the conspiracy theories, the anti-intellectualism and the bigotry.

And those families who had their children stolen by Trump deserve every f**king penny they get.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2021, 02:56:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .

Assuming all you say is true (not a remotely safe assumption with you at any time), still by far the lesser of two evils.

Get back to us when your shower come to their senses with Trump, the conspiracy theories, the anti-intellectualism and the bigotry.

And those families who had their children stolen by Trump deserve every f**king penny they get.

Actually they don't

They knowingly broke the law and entered another country illegally knowing this policy was in place
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2021, 03:01:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .

Assuming all you say is true (not a remotely safe assumption with you at any time), still by far the lesser of two evils.

Get back to us when your shower come to their senses with Trump, the conspiracy theories, the anti-intellectualism and the bigotry.

And those families who had their children stolen by Trump deserve every f**king penny they get.

The cages at the border were opened by Obama, not Trump.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001  (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001)

What happens if you or I try to enter a country without the correct papers? Why should America be any different?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 06, 2021, 08:04:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .

Assuming all you say is true (not a remotely safe assumption with you at any time), still by far the lesser of two evils.

Get back to us when your shower come to their senses with Trump, the conspiracy theories, the anti-intellectualism and the bigotry.

And those families who had their children stolen by Trump deserve every f**king penny they get.
for example the family of a soldier killed in action gets 100k
J70 the Democrats need Trump more than the gop , without him they have nothing only loony policies.
Hopefully desantis gets the nomination in 2024 and the Democrats run who ? Joe ? Kamala? Hillary ? He destroys all of them .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2021, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2021, 03:01:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .

Assuming all you say is true (not a remotely safe assumption with you at any time), still by far the lesser of two evils.

Get back to us when your shower come to their senses with Trump, the conspiracy theories, the anti-intellectualism and the bigotry.

And those families who had their children stolen by Trump deserve every f**king penny they get.

The cages at the border were opened by Obama, not Trump.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001  (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001)

What happens if you or I try to enter a country without the correct papers? Why should America be any different?

Not talking about cages.

I'm talking about stealing toddlers and young kids from their parents, putting the parents into custody, then shipping those tiny kids across the country and ending up losing track of hundreds of their connections, unable to reunite them with their families.

I believe, if I remember correctly, you recently had a child yourself.

Put yourself in the shoes of those families as a parent or a tiny child.

It was one of the most disgusting, callous policies ever dreamed up and implemented by any administration in US history, and, by their own admission, purely to maximize the cruelty as a deterrent to others.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 06, 2021, 09:01:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 06, 2021, 08:04:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .

Assuming all you say is true (not a remotely safe assumption with you at any time), still by far the lesser of two evils.

Get back to us when your shower come to their senses with Trump, the conspiracy theories, the anti-intellectualism and the bigotry.

And those families who had their children stolen by Trump deserve every f**king penny they get.
for example the family of a soldier killed in action gets 100k
J70 the Democrats need Trump more than the gop , without him they have nothing only loony policies.
Hopefully desantis gets the nomination in 2024 and the Democrats run who ? Joe ? Kamala? Hillary ? He destroys all of them .

Payments to families of dead soldiers is a separate argument. If they're short-changed (and they should get paid an absolute fortune IMO), then increase.

But let's face it, if those numbers were reversed, the MAGA universe would still be having a fit. It's the principle, not the number.

Same fucks who were screaming about the Afghan helpers didn't want any of them granted asylum in the US.

And give me a break with the Dems needing Trump more. The GOP are all still bending over backwards to venerate and not offend the orange sc**bag, still going on about stopping the steal and afraid to admit Biden won fair and square.

I wish they'd do us all a favour and tell him to go f**k himself, even for someone like DeSantis, but there's little sign of that yet.

Fair enough that the Dems need to run on more than anti-Trump, as McAuliffe discovered, but it's ludicrous to deny that Trump hasn't got the GOP by the short and curlies. As long as their insane base still worships the filthy ground he walks on, the rest of us are unfortunately at serious risk of his sullying our lives again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 06, 2021, 10:53:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2021, 03:01:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .

Assuming all you say is true (not a remotely safe assumption with you at any time), still by far the lesser of two evils.

Get back to us when your shower come to their senses with Trump, the conspiracy theories, the anti-intellectualism and the bigotry.

And those families who had their children stolen by Trump deserve every f**king penny they get.

The cages at the border were opened by Obama, not Trump.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001  (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001)

What happens if you or I try to enter a country without the correct papers? Why should America be any different?

Not talking about cages.

I'm talking about stealing toddlers and young kids from their parents, putting the parents into custody, then shipping those tiny kids across the country and ending up losing track of hundreds of their connections, unable to reunite them with their families.

I believe, if I remember correctly, you recently had a child yourself.

Put yourself in the shoes of those families as a parent or a tiny child.

It was one of the most disgusting, callous policies ever dreamed up and implemented by any administration in US history, and, by their own admission, purely to maximize the cruelty as a deterrent to others.

Huge percentage of those intercepted at the border had no documents

How do you know the people claiming to be their parents weren't just traffickers being paid to bring them across ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 07, 2021, 08:34:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2021, 10:53:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2021, 03:01:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .

Assuming all you say is true (not a remotely safe assumption with you at any time), still by far the lesser of two evils.

Get back to us when your shower come to their senses with Trump, the conspiracy theories, the anti-intellectualism and the bigotry.

And those families who had their children stolen by Trump deserve every f**king penny they get.

The cages at the border were opened by Obama, not Trump.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001  (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001)

What happens if you or I try to enter a country without the correct papers? Why should America be any different?

Not talking about cages.

I'm talking about stealing toddlers and young kids from their parents, putting the parents into custody, then shipping those tiny kids across the country and ending up losing track of hundreds of their connections, unable to reunite them with their families.

I believe, if I remember correctly, you recently had a child yourself.

Put yourself in the shoes of those families as a parent or a tiny child.

It was one of the most disgusting, callous policies ever dreamed up and implemented by any administration in US history, and, by their own admission, purely to maximize the cruelty as a deterrent to others.

Huge percentage of those intercepted at the border had no documents

How do you know the people claiming to be their parents weren't just traffickers being paid to bring them across ?

There is no evidence that was their primary or even secondary concern.

This was stated blanket policy, a cruel, callous attempt to intimidate families from illegally crossing, including to seek asylum.

So beyond the pale that even a man like Trump had to give in and cancel it, at least visibly.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 07, 2021, 02:04:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 07, 2021, 08:34:59 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 06, 2021, 10:53:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2021, 03:01:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 05, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 04, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Joe update: inflation through roof , wide open southern border, lack of products on shelves, crime through the roof , gas prices way up , falling asleep at  cop26, shitting his pants at Vatican other than that he's doing a great job .

the rantings of a simpleton
i forgot these :460k payment to illegal immigrants Separated at border , btw joe didn't know about this when asked he  said it was a lie Fox News are spreading.
Afghanistan withdrawal  disaster. Still Amercian citizens there .
Lying about mandates, actually he probably knew nothing about them either .
Still being on board with current administration is beyond being a simpleton at this stage .

Assuming all you say is true (not a remotely safe assumption with you at any time), still by far the lesser of two evils.

Get back to us when your shower come to their senses with Trump, the conspiracy theories, the anti-intellectualism and the bigotry.

And those families who had their children stolen by Trump deserve every f**king penny they get.

The cages at the border were opened by Obama, not Trump.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001  (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3413683001)

What happens if you or I try to enter a country without the correct papers? Why should America be any different?

Not talking about cages.

I'm talking about stealing toddlers and young kids from their parents, putting the parents into custody, then shipping those tiny kids across the country and ending up losing track of hundreds of their connections, unable to reunite them with their families.

I believe, if I remember correctly, you recently had a child yourself.

Put yourself in the shoes of those families as a parent or a tiny child.

It was one of the most disgusting, callous policies ever dreamed up and implemented by any administration in US history, and, by their own admission, purely to maximize the cruelty as a deterrent to others.

Huge percentage of those intercepted at the border had no documents

How do you know the people claiming to be their parents weren't just traffickers being paid to bring them across ?

There is no evidence that was their primary or even secondary concern.

This was stated blanket policy, a cruel, callous attempt to intimidate families from illegally crossing, including to seek asylum.

So beyond the pale that even a man like Trump had to give in and cancel it, at least visibly.

Must be great to live in lala land

https://www.cbp.gov/frontline/border-crisis-cbp-fights-child-exploitation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2021, 01:13:23 PM
As you say yourself whitey, believe what you want.

John Kelly

Are you in favor of this new move announced by the attorney general early this week that if you cross the border illegally even if you're a mother with your children [we're going] to arrest you? We're going to prosecute you, we're going to send your kids to a juvenile shelter?
The name of the game to a large degree. Let me step back and tell you that the vast majority of the people that move illegally into United States are not bad people. They're not criminals. They're not MS-13. Some of them are not. But they're also not people that would easily assimilate into the United States into our modern society. They're overwhelmingly rural people in the countries they come from – fourth, fifth, sixth grade educations are kind of the norm. They don't speak English, obviously that's a big thing. They don't speak English. They don't integrate well, they don't have skills. They're not bad people. They're coming here for a reason. And I sympathize with the reason. But the laws are the laws. But a big name of the game is deterrence.

Family separation stands as a pretty tough deterrent.
It could be a tough deterrent — would be a tough deterrent. A much faster turnaround on asylum seekers.

Even though people say that's cruel and heartless to take a mother away from her children?
I wouldn't put it quite that way. The children will be taken care of — put into foster care or whatever. But the big point is they elected to come illegally into the United States and this is a technique that no one hopes will be used extensively or for very long.

https://www.npr.org/2018/05/11/610116389/transcript-white-house-chief-of-staff-john-kellys-interview-with-npr (https://www.npr.org/2018/05/11/610116389/transcript-white-house-chief-of-staff-john-kellys-interview-with-npr)

DHS memo
In a memorandum that outlines the proposal and was obtained by The Washington Post, officials say that threatening adults with criminal charges and prison time would be the "most effective" way to reverse the steadily rising number of attempted crossings. Most parents now caught crossing the border illegally with their children are quickly released to await civil deportation hearings.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/immigration/top-homeland-security-officials-urge-criminal-prosecution-of-parents-who-cross-border-with-children/2018/04/26/a0bdcee0-4964-11e8-8b5a-3b1697adcc2a_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/immigration/top-homeland-security-officials-urge-criminal-prosecution-of-parents-who-cross-border-with-children/2018/04/26/a0bdcee0-4964-11e8-8b5a-3b1697adcc2a_story.html)


Stephen Miller
"No nation can have the policy that whole classes of people are immune from immigration law or enforcement," he said during an interview in his West Wing office this past week. "It was a simple decision by the administration to have a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry, period. The message is that no one is exempt from immigration law."

Trump backing down
(So much for his concern about child trafficking)
We're going to keep families together but we still have to maintain toughness or our country will be overrun by people, by crime, by all of the things that we don't stand for and that we don't want,"

Same story says 13 GOP Senators wrote a letter to him urging him to end the policy.

His vacuous plank daughter took to Twitter to thank him.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/621798823/speaker-ryan-plans-immigration-votes-amid-doubts-that-bills-can-pass (https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/621798823/speaker-ryan-plans-immigration-votes-amid-doubts-that-bills-can-pass)

Justice Dept IG report says Sessions was the driving force
"We concluded that the Department's single-minded focus on increasing immigration prosecutions came at the expense of careful and appropriate consideration of the impact of family unit prosecutions and child separations," the report states.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/14/sessions-family-separation-policy-459423 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/14/sessions-family-separation-policy-459423)

Kelly blames Sessions too...
"What happened was Jeff Sessions, he was the one that instituted the zero-tolerance process on the border that resulted in both people being detained and the family separation,"
https://www.businessinsider.com/john-kelly-says-jeff-sessions-is-responsible-for-family-separation-policy-2018-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com/john-kelly-says-jeff-sessions-is-responsible-for-family-separation-policy-2018-12)

But he later said it was "unfortunate" that the families could not be reunited quickly. Didn't regret the separation policy though.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-families/former-trump-attorney-general-sessions-regrets-migrant-family-separations-idUSKBN2AV10R (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-families/former-trump-attorney-general-sessions-regrets-migrant-family-separations-idUSKBN2AV10R)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Believe what?

People were presenting themselves at the border with no verifiable identification-that's a fact!

Are we just to supposed to assume that everyone is telling the truth in terms of who they are and what their relationship is to the people they are traveling with?

Maybe you could put this "unaccompanied minor" up on your spare bedroom?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/04/illegal-immigrant-who-posed-as-minor-while-crossing-border-charged-with-murder/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2021, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Believe what?

People were presenting themselves at the border with no verifiable identification-that's a fact!

Are we just to supposed to assume that everyone is telling the truth in terms of who they are and what their relationship is to the people they are traveling with?

Maybe you could put this "unaccompanied minor" up on your spare bedroom?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/04/illegal-immigrant-who-posed-as-minor-while-crossing-border-charged-with-murder/amp/

Then you do what you need to do to investigate. Same as was done before and, presumably, since Trump folded.

Your default blanket "zero tolerance" policy should NOT be to rip terrified kids out of their distraught parents arms and ship them off who the f**k knows where in the hopes of intimidating all others who might also try to cross.

Holding a supposedly 17 year old unaccompanied illegal immigrant you're not sure about is a hell of distance from stealing young kids and babies from their parents.

Honestly, I'm amazed that you, who nitpicks and assumes the very worst of anything the media or Dems ever do, are trying to defend a barbaric policy like this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2021, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Believe what?

People were presenting themselves at the border with no verifiable identification-that's a fact!

Are we just to supposed to assume that everyone is telling the truth in terms of who they are and what their relationship is to the people they are traveling with?

Maybe you could put this "unaccompanied minor" up on your spare bedroom?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/04/illegal-immigrant-who-posed-as-minor-while-crossing-border-charged-with-murder/amp/

Then you do what you need to do to investigate. Same as was done before and, presumably, since Trump folded.

Your default blanket "zero tolerance" policy should NOT be to rip terrified kids out of their distraught parents arms and ship them off who the f**k knows where in the hopes of intimidating all others who might also try to cross.

Holding a supposedly 17 year old unaccompanied illegal immigrant you're not sure about is a hell of distance from stealing young kids and babies from their parents.

Honestly, I'm amazed that you, who nitpicks and assumes the very worst of anything the media or Dems ever do, are trying to defend a barbaric policy like this.

We share an indirect land border with hundreds of millions of people living in extreme poverty

An argument could be made that every single one of them would qualify for asylum

Arriving with children almost guarantees entry-that only encourages more people to come

Add in the fact that we cannot verify the identities of the vast majority of these people





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2021, 03:36:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Believe what?

People were presenting themselves at the border with no verifiable identification-that's a fact!

Are we just to supposed to assume that everyone is telling the truth in terms of who they are and what their relationship is to the people they are traveling with?

Maybe you could put this "unaccompanied minor" up on your spare bedroom?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/04/illegal-immigrant-who-posed-as-minor-while-crossing-border-charged-with-murder/amp/

Then you do what you need to do to investigate. Same as was done before and, presumably, since Trump folded.

Your default blanket "zero tolerance" policy should NOT be to rip terrified kids out of their distraught parents arms and ship them off who the f**k knows where in the hopes of intimidating all others who might also try to cross.

Holding a supposedly 17 year old unaccompanied illegal immigrant you're not sure about is a hell of distance from stealing young kids and babies from their parents.

Honestly, I'm amazed that you, who nitpicks and assumes the very worst of anything the media or Dems ever do, are trying to defend a barbaric policy like this.

We share an indirect land border with hundreds of millions of people living in extreme poverty

An argument could be made that every single one of them would qualify for asylum

Arriving with children almost guarantees entry-that only encourages more people to come

Add in the fact that we cannot verify the identities of the vast majority of these people

Something administrations of both sides have been dealing with for years and years without resorting to treating those people like subhumans as a form of "deterrence".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2021, 10:50:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 03:36:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Believe what?

People were presenting themselves at the border with no verifiable identification-that's a fact!

Are we just to supposed to assume that everyone is telling the truth in terms of who they are and what their relationship is to the people they are traveling with?

Maybe you could put this "unaccompanied minor" up on your spare bedroom?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/04/illegal-immigrant-who-posed-as-minor-while-crossing-border-charged-with-murder/amp/

Then you do what you need to do to investigate. Same as was done before and, presumably, since Trump folded.

Your default blanket "zero tolerance" policy should NOT be to rip terrified kids out of their distraught parents arms and ship them off who the f**k knows where in the hopes of intimidating all others who might also try to cross.

Holding a supposedly 17 year old unaccompanied illegal immigrant you're not sure about is a hell of distance from stealing young kids and babies from their parents.

Honestly, I'm amazed that you, who nitpicks and assumes the very worst of anything the media or Dems ever do, are trying to defend a barbaric policy like this.

We share an indirect land border with hundreds of millions of people living in extreme poverty

An argument could be made that every single one of them would qualify for asylum

Arriving with children almost guarantees entry-that only encourages more people to come

Add in the fact that we cannot verify the identities of the vast majority of these people

Something administrations of both sides have been dealing with for years and years without resorting to treating those people like subhumans as a form of "deterrence".
mayor pete says low overpass bridges are racist and stop bus loads of black and brown people getting to the beach, can the insanity get any worse ? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2021, 01:11:28 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2021, 10:50:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 03:36:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Believe what?

People were presenting themselves at the border with no verifiable identification-that's a fact!

Are we just to supposed to assume that everyone is telling the truth in terms of who they are and what their relationship is to the people they are traveling with?

Maybe you could put this "unaccompanied minor" up on your spare bedroom?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/04/illegal-immigrant-who-posed-as-minor-while-crossing-border-charged-with-murder/amp/

Then you do what you need to do to investigate. Same as was done before and, presumably, since Trump folded.

Your default blanket "zero tolerance" policy should NOT be to rip terrified kids out of their distraught parents arms and ship them off who the f**k knows where in the hopes of intimidating all others who might also try to cross.

Holding a supposedly 17 year old unaccompanied illegal immigrant you're not sure about is a hell of distance from stealing young kids and babies from their parents.

Honestly, I'm amazed that you, who nitpicks and assumes the very worst of anything the media or Dems ever do, are trying to defend a barbaric policy like this.

We share an indirect land border with hundreds of millions of people living in extreme poverty

An argument could be made that every single one of them would qualify for asylum

Arriving with children almost guarantees entry-that only encourages more people to come

Add in the fact that we cannot verify the identities of the vast majority of these people

Something administrations of both sides have been dealing with for years and years without resorting to treating those people like subhumans as a form of "deterrence".
mayor pete says low overpass bridges are racist and stop bus loads of black and brown people getting to the beach, can the insanity get any worse ?

1. What does any of that have to do with the discussion myself and whitey were having?

2. I would suggest you go and educate yourself on the policies of men like Robert Moses and his reign over the infrastructure of NYC and its suburbs,  but what would be the point? Sneer away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on November 09, 2021, 05:16:02 AM
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2021, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 03:36:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Believe what?

People were presenting themselves at the border with no verifiable identification-that's a fact!

Are we just to supposed to assume that everyone is telling the truth in terms of who they are and what their relationship is to the people they are traveling with?

Maybe you could put this "unaccompanied minor" up on your spare bedroom?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/04/illegal-immigrant-who-posed-as-minor-while-crossing-border-charged-with-murder/amp/

Then you do what you need to do to investigate. Same as was done before and, presumably, since Trump folded.

Your default blanket "zero tolerance" policy should NOT be to rip terrified kids out of their distraught parents arms and ship them off who the f**k knows where in the hopes of intimidating all others who might also try to cross.

Holding a supposedly 17 year old unaccompanied illegal immigrant you're not sure about is a hell of distance from stealing young kids and babies from their parents.

Honestly, I'm amazed that you, who nitpicks and assumes the very worst of anything the media or Dems ever do, are trying to defend a barbaric policy like this.

We share an indirect land border with hundreds of millions of people living in extreme poverty

An argument could be made that every single one of them would qualify for asylum

Arriving with children almost guarantees entry-that only encourages more people to come

Add in the fact that we cannot verify the identities of the vast majority of these people

Something administrations of both sides have been dealing with for years and years without resorting to treating those people like subhumans as a form of "deterrence".

We've covered this ground before

Unlike 99.99% of conservatives, I am actually I n favor of giving tens of millions of undocumented residents full legal status with a pathway to citizenship. This would be going against both my financial and political best interests, but it's the right thing to do

There would be no point in doing this unless we seal the border to illegal entrants

Let's absorb the people we currently have here illegally and get them on track.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2021, 02:35:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2021, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 03:36:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2021, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Believe what?

People were presenting themselves at the border with no verifiable identification-that's a fact!

Are we just to supposed to assume that everyone is telling the truth in terms of who they are and what their relationship is to the people they are traveling with?

Maybe you could put this "unaccompanied minor" up on your spare bedroom?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/04/illegal-immigrant-who-posed-as-minor-while-crossing-border-charged-with-murder/amp/

Then you do what you need to do to investigate. Same as was done before and, presumably, since Trump folded.

Your default blanket "zero tolerance" policy should NOT be to rip terrified kids out of their distraught parents arms and ship them off who the f**k knows where in the hopes of intimidating all others who might also try to cross.

Holding a supposedly 17 year old unaccompanied illegal immigrant you're not sure about is a hell of distance from stealing young kids and babies from their parents.

Honestly, I'm amazed that you, who nitpicks and assumes the very worst of anything the media or Dems ever do, are trying to defend a barbaric policy like this.

We share an indirect land border with hundreds of millions of people living in extreme poverty

An argument could be made that every single one of them would qualify for asylum

Arriving with children almost guarantees entry-that only encourages more people to come

Add in the fact that we cannot verify the identities of the vast majority of these people

Something administrations of both sides have been dealing with for years and years without resorting to treating those people like subhumans as a form of "deterrence".

We've covered this ground before

Unlike 99.99% of conservatives, I am actually I n favor of giving tens of millions of undocumented residents full legal status with a pathway to citizenship. This would be going against both my financial and political best interests, but it's the right thing to do

There would be no point in doing this unless we seal the border to illegal entrants

Let's absorb the people we currently have here illegally and get them on track.

No argument with any of that whitey. Increase the number and resources of border agents and the assorted specialists they need to handle migrants. Get all the electronic surveillance they need. Increase the capacity to deal, humanely, with asylum seekers.

There is a middle ground well short of confiscating young kids.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2021, 02:37:46 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on November 09, 2021, 05:16:02 AM
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/

That sounds like a parody or piss-take which some ultra-gullible idiots (redundant, I know, when it comes to stuff like QAnon and Stop the Steal!) actually thought could be real!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 16, 2021, 07:23:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:05:01 PM
Like, there's literally no way to defend this carry on, and why would anybody even try

The Trump regime openly defends a white supremacist murderer

So much for being pro-"law and order", it's pro-chaos and racist murder

There are no "legitimate questions" to ask about this, the Trump regime is pro-white supremacist terror and has always been so

Nazi comparisons are accurate and pertinent

Quotehttps://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/dhs-memo-told-officials-to-make-comments-favorable-to-kenosha-shootings-suspect/2432408/

DHS Memo Told Officials to Make Comments Favorable to Kenosha Shooting Suspect
DHS talking points obtained by NBC News show officials were told to speak sympathetically about Kyle Rittenhouse, the teen charged with killing two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin

Federal law enforcement officials were directed to make public comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager charged with fatally shooting two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, according to internal Department of Homeland Security talking points obtained by NBC News.

In preparing Homeland Security officials for questions about Rittenhouse from the media, the document suggests that they note that he "took his rifle to the scene of the rioting to help defend small business owners."

Another set of talking points distributed to Homeland Security officials said the media were incorrectly labeling the group Patriot Prayer as racists after clashes erupted between the group and protesters in Portland, Oregon.
this  trial coming to an end today or tomorrow anyone following the testimony ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 16, 2021, 07:34:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 16, 2021, 07:23:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:05:01 PM
Like, there's literally no way to defend this carry on, and why would anybody even try

The Trump regime openly defends a white supremacist murderer

So much for being pro-"law and order", it's pro-chaos and racist murder

There are no "legitimate questions" to ask about this, the Trump regime is pro-white supremacist terror and has always been so

Nazi comparisons are accurate and pertinent

Quotehttps://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/dhs-memo-told-officials-to-make-comments-favorable-to-kenosha-shootings-suspect/2432408/

DHS Memo Told Officials to Make Comments Favorable to Kenosha Shooting Suspect
DHS talking points obtained by NBC News show officials were told to speak sympathetically about Kyle Rittenhouse, the teen charged with killing two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin

Federal law enforcement officials were directed to make public comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager charged with fatally shooting two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, according to internal Department of Homeland Security talking points obtained by NBC News.

In preparing Homeland Security officials for questions about Rittenhouse from the media, the document suggests that they note that he "took his rifle to the scene of the rioting to help defend small business owners."

Another set of talking points distributed to Homeland Security officials said the media were incorrectly labeling the group Patriot Prayer as racists after clashes erupted between the group and protesters in Portland, Oregon.
this  trial coming to an end today or tomorrow anyone following the testimony ?

I've been in my office for the past 2 weeks and pretty much listened to the entire thing

I'll be shocked if he's convicted of the most serious charges

Prosecutor screwed up big time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2021, 07:35:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 16, 2021, 07:23:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:05:01 PM
Like, there's literally no way to defend this carry on, and why would anybody even try

The Trump regime openly defends a white supremacist murderer

So much for being pro-"law and order", it's pro-chaos and racist murder

There are no "legitimate questions" to ask about this, the Trump regime is pro-white supremacist terror and has always been so

Nazi comparisons are accurate and pertinent

Quotehttps://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/dhs-memo-told-officials-to-make-comments-favorable-to-kenosha-shootings-suspect/2432408/

DHS Memo Told Officials to Make Comments Favorable to Kenosha Shooting Suspect
DHS talking points obtained by NBC News show officials were told to speak sympathetically about Kyle Rittenhouse, the teen charged with killing two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin

Federal law enforcement officials were directed to make public comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager charged with fatally shooting two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, according to internal Department of Homeland Security talking points obtained by NBC News.

In preparing Homeland Security officials for questions about Rittenhouse from the media, the document suggests that they note that he "took his rifle to the scene of the rioting to help defend small business owners."

Another set of talking points distributed to Homeland Security officials said the media were incorrectly labeling the group Patriot Prayer as racists after clashes erupted between the group and protesters in Portland, Oregon.
this  trial coming to an end today or tomorrow anyone following the testimony ?

Seen a few headlines and read one or two reports that suggest he'll get off on self-defense, but other than that, no.

The US is fucked in the head when it comes to guns.

Dumb, ignorant kid crossing state lines with an assault rifle to do a bit of vigilanteing... nothing to see here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 16, 2021, 07:55:42 PM
He crossed state lines alright but didn't bring the gun with him-the gun was already in WI

He lives 20 minutes away from Kenosha in a town that abuts the border-the fact he crossed into another state is completely irrelevant.

That's like pointing out  someone went from Celbridge to Lucan-people do it all the time and probably some do it several times a day

That being said, he should get 20/30 years in jail IMHO. He had no business being there

The problem is that the prosecutor overcharged him and in the process turned it into a self defense case. I just can't see how they can reach an unanimous verdict in this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2021, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2021, 07:55:42 PM
He crossed state lines alright but didn't bring the gun with him-the gun was already in WI

He lives 20 minutes away from Kenosha in a town that abuts the border-the fact he crossed into another state is completely irrelevant.

That's like pointing out  someone went from Celbridge to Lucan-people do it all the time and probably some do it several times a day

That being said, he should get 20/30 years in jail IMHO. He had no business being there

The problem is that the prosecutor overcharged him and in the process turned it into a self defense case. I just can't see how they can reach an unanimous verdict in this

Well crossing the state line with a weapon is obviously irrelevant then if he didn't in fact bring the weapon across state lines. :)

Like I said, I haven't been paying too much attention.

But my anger would be more towards the parents and adults in his life, letting a stupid kid get into that situation with a weapon like that.

Can't comment much beyond that - it wouldn't surprise me in the least if what he did was legal given US gun laws. If the prosecutor screwed up by overcharging, then obviously Kenosha needs to look at its DA office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 16, 2021, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2021, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2021, 07:55:42 PM
He crossed state lines alright but didn't bring the gun with him-the gun was already in WI

He lives 20 minutes away from Kenosha in a town that abuts the border-the fact he crossed into another state is completely irrelevant.

That's like pointing out  someone went from Celbridge to Lucan-people do it all the time and probably some do it several times a day

That being said, he should get 20/30 years in jail IMHO. He had no business being there

The problem is that the prosecutor overcharged him and in the process turned it into a self defense case. I just can't see how they can reach an unanimous verdict in this

Well crossing the state line with a weapon is obviously irrelevant then if he didn't in fact bring the weapon across state lines. :)

Like I said, I haven't been paying too much attention.

But my anger would be more towards the parents and adults in his life, letting a stupid kid get into that situation with a weapon like that.

Can't comment much beyond that - it wouldn't surprise me in the least if what he did was legal given US gun laws. If the prosecutor screwed up by overcharging, then obviously Kenosha needs to look at its DA office.

It's completely ar$e backwards

He wasn't even breaking the law by being in possession of the gun. That got thrown out yesterday due to the length of the barrel

Mother should face jail time - bringing him to a bar to drink beer and hang out with a group of "Proud Boys" while flashing white supremacy signs is just a further example of her bad judgement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on November 17, 2021, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2021, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2021, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2021, 07:55:42 PM
He crossed state lines alright but didn't bring the gun with him-the gun was already in WI

He lives 20 minutes away from Kenosha in a town that abuts the border-the fact he crossed into another state is completely irrelevant.

That's like pointing out  someone went from Celbridge to Lucan-people do it all the time and probably some do it several times a day

That being said, he should get 20/30 years in jail IMHO. He had no business being there

The problem is that the prosecutor overcharged him and in the process turned it into a self defense case. I just can't see how they can reach an unanimous verdict in this

Well crossing the state line with a weapon is obviously irrelevant then if he didn't in fact bring the weapon across state lines. :)

Like I said, I haven't been paying too much attention.

But my anger would be more towards the parents and adults in his life, letting a stupid kid get into that situation with a weapon like that.

Can't comment much beyond that - it wouldn't surprise me in the least if what he did was legal given US gun laws. If the prosecutor screwed up by overcharging, then obviously Kenosha needs to look at its DA office.

It's completely ar$e backwards

He wasn't even breaking the law by being in possession of the gun. That got thrown out yesterday due to the length of the barrel

Mother should face jail time - bringing him to a bar to drink beer and hang out with a group of "Proud Boys" while flashing white supremacy signs is just a further example of her bad judgement


The bold is a perfect example of parents today, they want to be pals with their kids and not a parent.

Also reminds me of a sign I saw many years ago.....Stupid people shouldn't Breed.

I have been watching the majority of this trial as I'm home due to Covid and the prosecutor did screw this up but the lesser felony charges should have convictions.

If this kid wasn't there no one would have died.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 18, 2021, 08:54:52 PM
MSNBC following the jurors bus in Kenosha to either photograph the jurors or find out where they live
This is not a news channel it's a propaganda channel and is actively working to try intimidate a jury .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 19, 2021, 06:28:38 PM
Rittenhouse not guilty all counts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 19, 2021, 06:34:07 PM
the least predictable outcome
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: StPatsAbu on November 19, 2021, 07:56:03 PM
Quote from: dec on November 19, 2021, 06:28:38 PM
Rittenhouse not guilty all counts.

That judgement gives white militias the green light to shoot BLM protesters and claim self defence
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 19, 2021, 07:57:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2021, 02:37:46 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on November 09, 2021, 05:16:02 AM
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/

That sounds like a parody or piss-take which some ultra-gullible idiots (redundant, I know, when it comes to stuff like QAnon and Stop the Steal!) actually thought could be real!
I read that they congregated on the Grassy Knoll  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 19, 2021, 10:12:13 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on November 19, 2021, 07:56:03 PM
Quote from: dec on November 19, 2021, 06:28:38 PM
Rittenhouse not guilty all counts.

That judgement gives white militias the green light to shoot BLM protesters and claim self defence

No, it doesn't. And you're just making an eejit of yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 19, 2021, 11:42:21 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on November 19, 2021, 07:56:03 PM
Quote from: dec on November 19, 2021, 06:28:38 PM
Rittenhouse not guilty all counts.

That judgement gives white militias the green light to shoot BLM protesters and claim self defence

It was the correct decision

Self defense all day long
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 19, 2021, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 19, 2021, 10:12:13 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on November 19, 2021, 07:56:03 PM
Quote from: dec on November 19, 2021, 06:28:38 PM
Rittenhouse not guilty all counts.

That judgement gives white militias the green light to shoot BLM protesters and claim self defence

No, it doesn't. And you're just making an eejit of yourself.

A good summary here.
https://www.persuasion.community/p/the-rittenhouse-verdict-shouldnt?r=333b2&utm_campaign=end-post-cta&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 20, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
If it had been a black man walking up to police to supposedly give himself up holding a automatic rifle, police would have shot him dead. All these gun nuts running around America, not too many of them would join the armed forces. The opposition tends to shoot bck doing tours of Iraq and Afghanistan. What other country in the world can you run round with civilians with guns outside some cartel stronghold in Mexico or 3rd world dictatorship. In America's case you can't beat stupid. What's their motto, Greatest country in the world, only in their tiny little heads.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 20, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
If it had been a black man walking up to police to supposedly give himself up holding a automatic rifle, police would have shot him dead. All these gun nuts running around America, not too many of them would join the armed forces. The opposition tends to shoot bck doing tours of Iraq and Afghanistan. What other country in the world can you run round with civilians with guns outside some cartel stronghold in Mexico or 3rd world dictatorship. In America's case you can't beat stupid. What's their motto, Greatest country in the world, only in their tiny little heads.
how about a black man driving down through a Christmas parade mowing down kids and grannies ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 23, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 20, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
If it had been a black man walking up to police to supposedly give himself up holding a automatic rifle, police would have shot him dead. All these gun nuts running around America, not too many of them would join the armed forces. The opposition tends to shoot bck doing tours of Iraq and Afghanistan. What other country in the world can you run round with civilians with guns outside some cartel stronghold in Mexico or 3rd world dictatorship. In America's case you can't beat stupid. What's their motto, Greatest country in the world, only in their tiny little heads.


Stop talking nonsense

722 people have been murdered in the City of Chicago so far this year

While Rittenhouse is a clown and had no business being there with a gun, relative to what happens week in and week out in the major cities what he did is a rounding error to the statistics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 23, 2021, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 20, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
If it had been a black man walking up to police to supposedly give himself up holding a automatic rifle, police would have shot him dead. All these gun nuts running around America, not too many of them would join the armed forces. The opposition tends to shoot bck doing tours of Iraq and Afghanistan. What other country in the world can you run round with civilians with guns outside some cartel stronghold in Mexico or 3rd world dictatorship. In America's case you can't beat stupid. What's their motto, Greatest country in the world, only in their tiny little heads.
how about a black man driving down through a Christmas parade mowing down kids and grannies ?

He has been arrested and charged and won't get off by claiming self defense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 23, 2021, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: dec on November 23, 2021, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 20, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
If it had been a black man walking up to police to supposedly give himself up holding a automatic rifle, police would have shot him dead. All these gun nuts running around America, not too many of them would join the armed forces. The opposition tends to shoot bck doing tours of Iraq and Afghanistan. What other country in the world can you run round with civilians with guns outside some cartel stronghold in Mexico or 3rd world dictatorship. In America's case you can't beat stupid. What's their motto, Greatest country in the world, only in their tiny little heads.
how about a black man driving down through a Christmas parade mowing down kids and grannies ?

He has been arrested and charged and won't get off by claiming self defense.

No "claiming" self defense

It WAS self defense and a jury of his peers found him unanimously innocent of ALL 5 charges.

(That's 60-0 in favor of Rittenhouse)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: dec on November 23, 2021, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 20, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
If it had been a black man walking up to police to supposedly give himself up holding a automatic rifle, police would have shot him dead. All these gun nuts running around America, not too many of them would join the armed forces. The opposition tends to shoot bck doing tours of Iraq and Afghanistan. What other country in the world can you run round with civilians with guns outside some cartel stronghold in Mexico or 3rd world dictatorship. In America's case you can't beat stupid. What's their motto, Greatest country in the world, only in their tiny little heads.
how about a black man driving down through a Christmas parade mowing down kids and grannies ?

He has been arrested and charged and won't get off by claiming self defense.
self defense for what ?  were the grannies and kids attacking him ?  Stay on the side of career criminals, pedophiles and wife beaters .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 06:01:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: dec on November 23, 2021, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 20, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
If it had been a black man walking up to police to supposedly give himself up holding a automatic rifle, police would have shot him dead. All these gun nuts running around America, not too many of them would join the armed forces. The opposition tends to shoot bck doing tours of Iraq and Afghanistan. What other country in the world can you run round with civilians with guns outside some cartel stronghold in Mexico or 3rd world dictatorship. In America's case you can't beat stupid. What's their motto, Greatest country in the world, only in their tiny little heads.
how about a black man driving down through a Christmas parade mowing down kids and grannies ?

He has been arrested and charged and won't get off by claiming self defense.
self defense for what ?  were the grannies and kids attacking him ?  Stay on the side of career criminals, pedophiles and wife beaters .
Why are you bringing Trump into it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 08:44:55 PM
A 17 year old white male murdered two protestors and shot another one in Wisconsin last night

The cops just let him waltz through the street with an AR-15 around his neck

So called white "militias" came in from out of state to create trouble

That's white terrorism enabled by white police and the white supremacist regime in the White House

Quote
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/investigators-focus-on-armed-white-vigilantes-after-2-shooting-deaths-in-kenosha-protests_n_5f465ffbc5b6cf66b2b131c2?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL1ZuNXdkRE5wd0o_YW1wPTE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABcsULAYnJXPEDlQmfe_ln_XU8ezCEYgqnr6CvS26ZIj3XDBrOqfdFXz47Yv9OQBXDLRx6yNCkso_ams5xkowqjjLxpKbe_QYBN2DrUlVIWe27yUvyapanYNot8nAcfN8Rv0JMdWOrXyxlh-fQpqZGbHVcj7hBaCJV_exKHLU1qV

Protesters clashed with police outside the Kenosha County Courthouse after a local white police officer shot Jacob Blake, a Black man, multiple times in the back with his children nearby over the weekend.

The third night of demonstrations appeared to turn deadly when heavily armed white vigilantes entered into the mix.

Investigators say they are focusing on a group of men with guns who were lined up outside some businesses a few blocks down the road from the courthouse, Beth told The New York Times. Ostensibly, the vigilantes were there to "protect" businesses from fires that had been set during previous nights of demonstrations.

A now-deleted Facebook page that appears to belong to Rittenhouse featured almost exclusively pro-police imagery and photos of the suspect carrying guns. At some point he changed his profile image to a "Blue Lives Matter" sign and held a fundraiser for a police nonprofit called "Humanizing The Badge."

Militia members may have been drawn to the city through a Facebook post by a group calling itself the Kenosha Guard, which encouraged "patriots" to "take up arms and defend our city tonight from the evil thugs," The Verge reported. It was unclear whether the suspect belonged to any militia groups.
wrong on everything from the start as usual .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 06:44:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 08:44:55 PM
A 17 year old white male murdered two protestors and shot another one in Wisconsin last night

The cops just let him waltz through the street with an AR-15 around his neck

So called white "militias" came in from out of state to create trouble

That's white terrorism enabled by white police and the white supremacist regime in the White House

Quote
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/investigators-focus-on-armed-white-vigilantes-after-2-shooting-deaths-in-kenosha-protests_n_5f465ffbc5b6cf66b2b131c2?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL1ZuNXdkRE5wd0o_YW1wPTE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABcsULAYnJXPEDlQmfe_ln_XU8ezCEYgqnr6CvS26ZIj3XDBrOqfdFXz47Yv9OQBXDLRx6yNCkso_ams5xkowqjjLxpKbe_QYBN2DrUlVIWe27yUvyapanYNot8nAcfN8Rv0JMdWOrXyxlh-fQpqZGbHVcj7hBaCJV_exKHLU1qV

Protesters clashed with police outside the Kenosha County Courthouse after a local white police officer shot Jacob Blake, a Black man, multiple times in the back with his children nearby over the weekend.

The third night of demonstrations appeared to turn deadly when heavily armed white vigilantes entered into the mix.

Investigators say they are focusing on a group of men with guns who were lined up outside some businesses a few blocks down the road from the courthouse, Beth told The New York Times. Ostensibly, the vigilantes were there to "protect" businesses from fires that had been set during previous nights of demonstrations.

A now-deleted Facebook page that appears to belong to Rittenhouse featured almost exclusively pro-police imagery and photos of the suspect carrying guns. At some point he changed his profile image to a "Blue Lives Matter" sign and held a fundraiser for a police nonprofit called "Humanizing The Badge."

Militia members may have been drawn to the city through a Facebook post by a group calling itself the Kenosha Guard, which encouraged "patriots" to "take up arms and defend our city tonight from the evil thugs," The Verge reported. It was unclear whether the suspect belonged to any militia groups.
wrong on everything from the start as usual .
I was completely correct.

But I don't expect any credit for that, I mean I only had to look at the videos of what actually happened.

US law is set up to favour white supremacist murderers like Rittenhouse.

And you wonder why the BLM movement exists.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 23, 2021, 06:51:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2021, 06:44:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 23, 2021, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 26, 2020, 08:44:55 PM
A 17 year old white male murdered two protestors and shot another one in Wisconsin last night

The cops just let him waltz through the street with an AR-15 around his neck

So called white "militias" came in from out of state to create trouble

That's white terrorism enabled by white police and the white supremacist regime in the White House

Quote
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/investigators-focus-on-armed-white-vigilantes-after-2-shooting-deaths-in-kenosha-protests_n_5f465ffbc5b6cf66b2b131c2?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL1ZuNXdkRE5wd0o_YW1wPTE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABcsULAYnJXPEDlQmfe_ln_XU8ezCEYgqnr6CvS26ZIj3XDBrOqfdFXz47Yv9OQBXDLRx6yNCkso_ams5xkowqjjLxpKbe_QYBN2DrUlVIWe27yUvyapanYNot8nAcfN8Rv0JMdWOrXyxlh-fQpqZGbHVcj7hBaCJV_exKHLU1qV

Protesters clashed with police outside the Kenosha County Courthouse after a local white police officer shot Jacob Blake, a Black man, multiple times in the back with his children nearby over the weekend.

The third night of demonstrations appeared to turn deadly when heavily armed white vigilantes entered into the mix.

Investigators say they are focusing on a group of men with guns who were lined up outside some businesses a few blocks down the road from the courthouse, Beth told The New York Times. Ostensibly, the vigilantes were there to "protect" businesses from fires that had been set during previous nights of demonstrations.

A now-deleted Facebook page that appears to belong to Rittenhouse featured almost exclusively pro-police imagery and photos of the suspect carrying guns. At some point he changed his profile image to a "Blue Lives Matter" sign and held a fundraiser for a police nonprofit called "Humanizing The Badge."

Militia members may have been drawn to the city through a Facebook post by a group calling itself the Kenosha Guard, which encouraged "patriots" to "take up arms and defend our city tonight from the evil thugs," The Verge reported. It was unclear whether the suspect belonged to any militia groups.
wrong on everything from the start as usual .
I was completely correct.

But I don't expect any credit for that, I mean I only had to look at the videos of what actually happened.

US law is set up to favour white supremacist murderers like Rittenhouse.

And you wonder why the BLM movement exists.

Haha

Rosenbaum-yelling and shouting calling people n1qq3rs at the protest

Some advertisement for BLM all right

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on November 24, 2021, 10:21:49 AM
The Bolshivik media drive racial hatred towards white people they should be sued for aiding and abetting black Supremacist Darrell Brooks for the slaughter in Wisconsin..He has now murdered 6 people as an 8 year old child Jackson Sparks has died from his injuries.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2021, 12:08:49 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on November 24, 2021, 10:21:49 AM
The Bolshivik media drive racial hatred towards white people they should be sued for aiding and abetting black Supremacist Darrell Brooks for the slaughter in Wisconsin. He has now murdered 6 people as an 8 year old child Jackson Sparks has died from his injuries.

I think you're on the wrong forum.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2021, 06:57:02 PM
Ahmaud Arbery killers guilty on all counts.

The mind boggles at WTF they were thinking, literally hunting that poor lad down like that like an animal.

Their questionable thinking extended to the good ole boys they hired to defend them in court also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2021, 07:03:02 PM
And don't forget, except that their mate and fellow-convicted was stupid enough to record the chase and execution on his phone, this case would never have come to national attention and these racist fucks would have got off scott free.

https://reason.com/2021/11/24/ahmaud-arbery-alleged-murderers-almost-escaped-charges-prosecutorial-misconduct-jackie-johnson-george-barnhill/ (https://reason.com/2021/11/24/ahmaud-arbery-alleged-murderers-almost-escaped-charges-prosecutorial-misconduct-jackie-johnson-george-barnhill/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2021, 10:10:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2021, 06:57:02 PM
Ahmaud Arbery killers guilty on all counts.

The mind boggles at WTF they were thinking, literally hunting that poor lad down like that like an animal.

Their questionable thinking extended to the good ole boys they hired to defend them in court also.

Crazy

Why didn't they just forward his picture to the authorities and have them go have a chat with him (if it was determined he did something wrong )
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 24, 2021, 11:37:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2021, 06:57:02 PM
Ahmaud Arbery killers guilty on all counts.

The mind boggles at WTF they were thinking, literally hunting that poor lad down like that like an animal.

Their questionable thinking extended to the good ole boys they hired to defend them in court also.
they deserve to be convicted and will get life sentences I hope .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2021, 10:07:29 AM
I'm surprised they didn't tie his body to the back of their car and drive it around the streets!!! Like this is 2020 (when it happened) not 1800's how does this even get to this?

Though I remember a guy that had stolen a car and it crashed into our street, the guy got out pretty dazed from the crash, that was the least of his injuries, the ambulance was sent away, numerous times before the locals finished with the joyrider/deathrider... That was the late 80's .. Street justice happens everywhere, no cameras in those days, no arrests either
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2021, 12:10:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 24, 2021, 11:37:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2021, 06:57:02 PM
Ahmaud Arbery killers guilty on all counts.

The mind boggles at WTF they were thinking, literally hunting that poor lad down like that like an animal.

Their questionable thinking extended to the good ole boys they hired to defend them in court also.
they deserve to be convicted and will get life sentences I hope .

Same for that twisted f**k in Wisconsin. Sixth person dead now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:36:54 AM
Great day for race relations in the USA knowing that the mastermind behind the jussie smollet racist and homophobic attack has been convicted on all charges.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Saffrongael on December 10, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:36:54 AM
Great day for race relations in the USA knowing that the mastermind behind the jussie smollet racist and homophobic attack has been convicted on all charges.

Crazy stuff, all to increase his profile I assume. Not only lied but actually staged it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2021, 12:57:49 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 10, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:36:54 AM
Great day for race relations in the USA knowing that the mastermind behind the jussie smollet racist and homophobic attack has been convicted on all charges.

Crazy stuff, all to increase his profile I assume. Not only lied but actually staged it

2 MAGA hat wearing, Ski masked Trump supporters roaming around downtown Chicago with a noose and bottle of bleach at 3 o clock in the morning on the coldest night of the year
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 10, 2021, 12:59:08 PM
https://youtu.be/wZXoErL2124 (https://youtu.be/wZXoErL2124)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:34:24 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 10, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:36:54 AM
Great day for race relations in the USA knowing that the mastermind behind the jussie smollet racist and homophobic attack has been convicted on all charges.

Crazy stuff, all to increase his profile I assume. Not only lied but actually staged it

Well he's paying the price. And correctly so.

As are a number of the Jan 6 morons.

Those who fomented and led it... not so much.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 10, 2021, 03:58:39 PM
How's the Fox News Christmas tree holding up?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 04:02:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 10, 2021, 03:58:39 PM
How's the Fox News Christmas tree holding up?
if it was the cnn or msnbc tree they probably would have set it on fire themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on December 10, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:34:24 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 10, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:36:54 AM
Great day for race relations in the USA knowing that the mastermind behind the jussie smollet racist and homophobic attack has been convicted on all charges.

Crazy stuff, all to increase his profile I assume. Not only lied but actually staged it

Well he's paying the price. And correctly so.

As are a number of the Jan 6 morons.

Those who fomented and led it... not so much.

your response is one of the reasons, i dont bother to view this board more than once a month.
What the F has January 6th got to do with Smollett.
I think there should be a focus on the list of politicians and show anchors who jumped to conclusions as it fit their narrative at the time, January of an election year.
Joe B
Kamal
Al Sharp
Cnn' Van Joe
Andrew Cu
there were at least half a dozen more who declared it a "lynching"
you know what all of them have in common, not one of them will apologize to the American public for their very inaccurate (pathetic )comments.
some of the Lib channels provided very little reporting on the guilty verdict.
TBH, It is also a reason that I avoid the news on TV. Over the top on both sides,
but at least when you make comments that are blatantly inaccurate, should you not come out and acknowledge them and even correct them?.
I will wrap it up, but in the 35+ years I have lived here, I have never experienced such a lack of leadership in this great country.
It is a bit scary that it has come to this, and I wonder what the dem powerbrokers were thinking 18 months ago when they pushed the combined Joe/Kamal ticket.
The answer to that one could take hours to answer.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 10, 2021, 04:17:07 PM
Who didn't report the guilty verdict??

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on December 10, 2021, 04:28:31 PM
The US is a crazy crazy place.

Even in the dark times on this island, years ago, you would find people who were middle of the road - didnt get involved in whatabboutery when there were incidents etc and just yearned for normal society.

But knowing a number of Americans and also looking at this thread, day in day out, there are very few if any middle of the roads who can see both sides of the argument - admit failings etc etc.

Its either hard one side or hard the other - no in between.

Nuts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Franko on December 10, 2021, 04:37:51 PM
Agreed Taylor

It's all about the direction of travel

Over here, a few incidents aside, there was always a general feeling that the passage of time was closing the gap for all but the most hardcore elements

The chasm in the US seems to be opening, at an ever-increasing rate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2021, 05:45:01 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 10, 2021, 04:28:31 PM
The US is a crazy crazy place.

Even in the dark times on this island, years ago, you would find people who were middle of the road - didnt get involved in whatabboutery when there were incidents etc and just yearned for normal society.

But knowing a number of Americans and also looking at this thread, day in day out, there are very few if any middle of the roads who can see both sides of the argument - admit failings etc etc.

Its either hard one side or hard the other - no in between.

Nuts
The U S will be a great place when the Yanks become adults in mind as well as body.
No sign of that yet.
Only children would think guns are more important than healthcare.
Sad to see so many Irish people who go there ending up with children's minds too (1 or 2 on this board) and dispersing with using their naturally sensible Irish brains.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2021, 11:12:30 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 10, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:34:24 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 10, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:36:54 AM
Great day for race relations in the USA knowing that the mastermind behind the jussie smollet racist and homophobic attack has been convicted on all charges.

Crazy stuff, all to increase his profile I assume. Not only lied but actually staged it

Well he's paying the price. And correctly so.

As are a number of the Jan 6 morons.

Those who fomented and led it... not so much.

your response is one of the reasons, i dont bother to view this board more than once a month.


You never have a problem with any of the endless logical falacies and outright bullshit this thread gets from your fellow travellers, but you still stick your head in again and again to whine against me personally. How many times is that now?

Quote from: joemamas on December 10, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
What the F has January 6th got to do with Smollett.

Nothing directly obviously.

My comment was more aimed at how Gmac resurrects this thread now and again for some perceived outrage by the left, but the thread then goes dormant, despite daily stories about the descent of the GOP into fascist madness.

I could be posting here, day after day, about the insanity of the right wing, but, to me, some things pretty much go without saying. I couldn't be arsed. I suspect others are the same. So the thread goes quiet, mostly, until Gmac resurrects it.

And the same Gmac who is outraged about Smullett, a few months back described the Jan 6 riot as a "walkthrough".

Smollett is a lone incident. If only the daily insults from the right were the same.

Quote from: joemamas on December 10, 2021, 04:13:41 PM

I think there should be a focus on the list of politicians and show anchors who jumped to conclusions as it fit their narrative at the time, January of an election year.
Joe B
Kamal
Al Sharp
Cnn' Van Joe
Andrew Cu
there were at least half a dozen more who declared it a "lynching"
you know what all of them have in common, not one of them will apologize to the American public for their very inaccurate (pathetic )comments.
some of the Lib channels provided very little reporting on the guilty verdict.

Ok, perhaps fair. They were wrong and should acknowledge it. But we're talking about politicians here who are concerned about the 24 hour news cycle.

Do you hold the right to the same standard?

Quote from: joemamas on December 10, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
TBH, It is also a reason that I avoid the news on TV. Over the top on both sides,
but at least when you make comments that are blatantly inaccurate, should you not come out and acknowledge them and even correct them?.

Of course they should.

Again, I ask do you hold the GOP leadership to the same standard?

Never mind Trump, what about, say, Kevin McCarthy? He's banishing principled members of his party to the wilderness because they have the temerity to stand up to, tell the truth about and contradict Trump, while at the same time he indulges the naked bigotry and fascism of the likes of Green and Bobert. He knows better, but he's betting his dignity and his integrity, such as it is, and whatever prinicples he once possessed, on becoming Speaker.

Quote from: joemamas on December 10, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
I will wrap it up, but in the 35+ years I have lived here, I have never experienced such a lack of leadership in this great country.
It is a bit scary that it has come to this, and I wonder what the dem powerbrokers were thinking 18 months ago when they pushed the combined Joe/Kamal ticket.
The answer to that one could take hours to answer.

There's no mystery whatsoever as to why the Dems went with Biden. There was a thin field and they needed a moderate, centrist seasoned hand to beat one of the most corrosive, corrupt and damaging figures to ascend to the top of US politics in decades.

Things ain't great, but, they could have been a hell of a lot worse had the election turned out differently.

That could still come to pass over the next few years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 11, 2021, 12:51:49 AM
Quote from: joemamas on December 10, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:34:24 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 10, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:36:54 AM
Great day for race relations in the USA knowing that the mastermind behind the jussie smollet racist and homophobic attack has been convicted on all charges.

Crazy stuff, all to increase his profile I assume. Not only lied but actually staged it

Well he's paying the price. And correctly so.

As are a number of the Jan 6 morons.

Those who fomented and led it... not so much.

your response is one of the reasons, i dont bother to view this board more than once a month.
What the F has January 6th got to do with Smollett.
I think there should be a focus on the list of politicians and show anchors who jumped to conclusions as it fit their narrative at the time, January of an election year.
Joe B
Kamal
Al Sharp
Cnn' Van Joe
Andrew Cu
there were at least half a dozen more who declared it a "lynching"
you know what all of them have in common, not one of them will apologize to the American public for their very inaccurate (pathetic )comments.
some of the Lib channels provided very little reporting on the guilty verdict.
TBH, It is also a reason that I avoid the news on TV. Over the top on both sides,
but at least when you make comments that are blatantly inaccurate, should you not come out and acknowledge them and even correct them?.
I will wrap it up, but in the 35+ years I have lived here, I have never experienced such a lack of leadership in this great country.
It is a bit scary that it has come to this, and I wonder what the dem powerbrokers were thinking 18 months ago when they pushed the combined Joe/Kamal ticket.
The answer to that one could take hours to answer.

Why is Trump not on your list??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2021, 02:22:52 AM
Quote from: Taylor on December 10, 2021, 04:28:31 PM
The US is a crazy crazy place.

Even in the dark times on this island, years ago, you would find people who were middle of the road - didnt get involved in whatabboutery when there were incidents etc and just yearned for normal society.

But knowing a number of Americans and also looking at this thread, day in day out, there are very few if any middle of the roads who can see both sides of the argument - admit failings etc etc.

Its either hard one side or hard the other - no in between.

Nuts

You can't have a middle ground when one side is off in a cloud cuckoo land of superstition, conspiracies and paranoia.

The American left of centre/Democratic Party is pretty mainstream by European standards.

The American mainstream right is about in line with the nuts in the DUP and European far right.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 11, 2021, 05:17:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2021, 02:22:52 AM
Quote from: Taylor on December 10, 2021, 04:28:31 PM
The US is a crazy crazy place.

Even in the dark times on this island, years ago, you would find people who were middle of the road - didnt get involved in whatabboutery when there were incidents etc and just yearned for normal society.

But knowing a number of Americans and also looking at this thread, day in day out, there are very few if any middle of the roads who can see both sides of the argument - admit failings etc etc.

Its either hard one side or hard the other - no in between.

Nuts

You can't have a middle ground when one side is off in a cloud cuckoo land of superstition, conspiracies and paranoia.

The American left of centre/Democratic Party is pretty mainstream by European standards.

The American mainstream right is about in line with the nuts in the DUP and European far right.

LOL

Abolish the Police, abolish prisons, abolish the border

Jail people for "dead naming" transgender people

Offended at every holiday and historic figure

There's a shower of See you next Tuesdays on the democratic side who make the Republicans actually look sane
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2021, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 11, 2021, 05:17:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 11, 2021, 02:22:52 AM
Quote from: Taylor on December 10, 2021, 04:28:31 PM
The US is a crazy crazy place.

Even in the dark times on this island, years ago, you would find people who were middle of the road - didnt get involved in whatabboutery when there were incidents etc and just yearned for normal society.

But knowing a number of Americans and also looking at this thread, day in day out, there are very few if any middle of the roads who can see both sides of the argument - admit failings etc etc.

Its either hard one side or hard the other - no in between.

Nuts

You can't have a middle ground when one side is off in a cloud cuckoo land of superstition, conspiracies and paranoia.

The American left of centre/Democratic Party is pretty mainstream by European standards.

The American mainstream right is about in line with the nuts in the DUP and European far right.

LOL

Abolish the Police, abolish prisons, abolish the border

Jail people for "dead naming" transgender people

Offended at every holiday and historic figure

There's a shower of See you next Tuesdays on the democratic side who make the Republicans actually look sane

The difference, whitey, being that what would be deemed as extremists on the left ARE extremists. They're not the mainstream party.

But you already know this.

No doubt part of the reason you're always so careful and quick to claim you're NOT a Republican and why you very rarely express any support for any actual Republican initiatives and policies.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2021, 02:29:58 PM
So after an epic debacle of an election last year,

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/7809359002

NYC has decided to allow 800000 non citizens to vote

That's should really restore people's confidence in the integrity of the process

(And wait until a handful of them are mistakingly  given ballots meant for citizens.....just handing the Republicans all the ammunition they need)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2021, 03:29:26 PM
"Epic" debacle? ;D

They sorted it out straight away.

Two separate issues anyway.

Personally I've no philosophical issue with letting permanent residents vote in local elections. Especially DACA people who've lived here their entire lives. They should have a voice in how the city is run.

I do have a problem with the 30 day threshold. That is ridiculously short.

Whether it all passes legal muster is another issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2021, 03:43:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2021, 03:29:26 PM
"Epic" debacle? ;D

They sorted it out straight away.

Two separate issues anyway.

Personally I've no philosophical issue with letting permanent residents vote in local elections. Especially DACA people who've lived here their entire lives. They should have a voice in how the city is run.

I do have a problem with the 30 day threshold. That is ridiculously short.

Whether it all passes legal muster is another issue.

Lol

So technically DACA folks are in the country illegally, they've just been given a stay by executive order that could be rescinded by a court. Is that an accurate assessment?


So the Democrats now have "illegals" voting in elections-fantastic

(FWIW, I'm in favor of DACA, but this is just bone headed stupidity)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2021, 03:43:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2021, 03:29:26 PM
"Epic" debacle? ;D

They sorted it out straight away.

Two separate issues anyway.

Personally I've no philosophical issue with letting permanent residents vote in local elections. Especially DACA people who've lived here their entire lives. They should have a voice in how the city is run.

I do have a problem with the 30 day threshold. That is ridiculously short.

Whether it all passes legal muster is another issue.

Lol

So technically DACA folks are in the country illegally, they've just been given a stay by executive order that could be rescinded by a court. Is that an accurate assessment?


So the Democrats now have "illegals" voting in elections-fantastic

(FWIW, I'm in favor of DACA, but this is just bone headed stupidity)


You're in favour of DACA, but allowing some, say, 25 year old who has lived in NYC his entire life the right to vote is "bone-headed stupidity"?

LOL indeed.

And the point of DACA is that they're given tacit legal residence and don't have to reside in the shadows of their home town. Until the GOP actually manage to banish them back into the shadows again, it's important that the Dems do right by them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2021, 04:55:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2021, 03:43:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2021, 03:29:26 PM
"Epic" debacle? ;D

They sorted it out straight away.

Two separate issues anyway.

Personally I've no philosophical issue with letting permanent residents vote in local elections. Especially DACA people who've lived here their entire lives. They should have a voice in how the city is run.

I do have a problem with the 30 day threshold. That is ridiculously short.

Whether it all passes legal muster is another issue.

Lol

So technically DACA folks are in the country illegally, they've just been given a stay by executive order that could be rescinded by a court. Is that an accurate assessment?


So the Democrats now have "illegals" voting in elections-fantastic

(FWIW, I'm in favor of DACA, but this is just bone headed stupidity)


You're in favour of DACA, but allowing some, say, 25 year old who has lived in NYC his entire life the right to vote is "bone-headed stupidity"?

LOL indeed.

And the point of DACA is that they're given tacit legal residence and don't have to reside in the shadows of their home town. Until the GOP actually manage to banish them back into the shadows again, it's important that the Dems do right by them.

ONLY CITIZENS ARE ALLOWED VOTE!!!!!!!!

PER THE CONSTITUTION

And this is the problem with the Democrats

It's just never enough

I'm in favor of DACA

I'm in favor of a pathway to citizenship

But that's still not enough. You now have to give them a vote

And way happens when someone is accidentally given the wrong ballot and a non citizen votes.

It will Completely vindicate everything the Republicans have been saying all along about voter integrity

If I was a Republican I'd be thrilled at this development. Then I'd forensically audit every single vote until I find someone voting who shouldn't be

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2021, 06:44:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2021, 04:55:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2021, 03:43:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2021, 03:29:26 PM
"Epic" debacle? ;D

They sorted it out straight away.

Two separate issues anyway.

Personally I've no philosophical issue with letting permanent residents vote in local elections. Especially DACA people who've lived here their entire lives. They should have a voice in how the city is run.

I do have a problem with the 30 day threshold. That is ridiculously short.

Whether it all passes legal muster is another issue.

Lol

So technically DACA folks are in the country illegally, they've just been given a stay by executive order that could be rescinded by a court. Is that an accurate assessment?


So the Democrats now have "illegals" voting in elections-fantastic

(FWIW, I'm in favor of DACA, but this is just bone headed stupidity)


You're in favour of DACA, but allowing some, say, 25 year old who has lived in NYC his entire life the right to vote is "bone-headed stupidity"?

LOL indeed.

And the point of DACA is that they're given tacit legal residence and don't have to reside in the shadows of their home town. Until the GOP actually manage to banish them back into the shadows again, it's important that the Dems do right by them.

ONLY CITIZENS ARE ALLOWED VOTE!!!!!!!!

PER THE CONSTITUTION

And this is the problem with the Democrats

It's just never enough

I'm in favor of DACA

I'm in favor of a pathway to citizenship

But that's still not enough. You now have to give them a vote

And way happens when someone is accidentally given the wrong ballot and a non citizen votes.

It will Completely vindicate everything the Republicans have been saying all along about voter integrity

If I was a Republican I'd be thrilled at this development. Then I'd forensically audit every single vote until I find someone voting who shouldn't be

If its in the constitution, you don't have much to worry about then, do you?

Anyway, I wasn't talking about that. I said in my original post "whether it passes legal muster is another issue". Bill DeBlasio doesn't think its constitutional FFS.

I'm talking about my moral and philosophical opinion.

And no, it WON'T "completely vindicate everything the Republicans have been saying all along about voter integrity" and their wider voter suppression and election theft scheming.

Lies, bullshit, demagoguery and brazen anti-democratic legal and legislative moves are still that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2021, 12:55:21 AM
Hyde Park which is home to former President Obama and the very prestigious University of Chicago has see a serious uptick in violent crime

Sadly to say 3 students have been murdered so far this year

"Last year, amid the George Floyd protests, many students challenged law enforcement and pushed for the abolishment and defunding of on-campus police, as reported by the Chicago Tribune."


https://wgntv.com/news/uchicago-leaders-cpd-address-campus-safety-fears-in-response-to-slain-graduate/?segment=1*9stx2z*s_amp_id*T1B0bjQwQjRlT3Q0MzhmanhNSF9EVnJmdmxxOFNHckdUT0tZZENuY29IelBORmhYNlhDNnFIR0R6cnBNeS15NQ..

(So after the most recent murder of an 18 year old Chinese lad there was a) "A rally last week on campus called attention to the violence surrounding the University of Chicago. The shooting death of recent graduate Dennis Zheng, during an afternoon robbery, highlighted the growing concern for safety.

And now another group has come out against the group who held this rally

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/outcry-as-uchicago-students-say-more-policing-surveillance-will-not-deter-future-gun-violence/amp/

So while "non college educated white people" are vilified for voting for Trump, this is the type of
of logic that our betters in the Democratic Party can come up with.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2021, 12:41:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 13, 2021, 12:55:21 AM
Hyde Park which is home to former President Obama and the very prestigious University of Chicago has see a serious uptick in violent crime

Sadly to say 3 students have been murdered so far this year

"Last year, amid the George Floyd protests, many students challenged law enforcement and pushed for the abolishment and defunding of on-campus police, as reported by the Chicago Tribune."


https://wgntv.com/news/uchicago-leaders-cpd-address-campus-safety-fears-in-response-to-slain-graduate/?segment=1*9stx2z*s_amp_id*T1B0bjQwQjRlT3Q0MzhmanhNSF9EVnJmdmxxOFNHckdUT0tZZENuY29IelBORmhYNlhDNnFIR0R6cnBNeS15NQ..

(So after the most recent murder of an 18 year old Chinese lad there was a) "A rally last week on campus called attention to the violence surrounding the University of Chicago. The shooting death of recent graduate Dennis Zheng, during an afternoon robbery, highlighted the growing concern for safety.

And now another group has come out against the group who held this rally

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/outcry-as-uchicago-students-say-more-policing-surveillance-will-not-deter-future-gun-violence/amp/

So while "non college educated white people" are vilified for voting for Trump, this is the type of
of logic that our betters in the Democratic Party can come up with.

Poor put-upon whitey. "Betters in the Democratic Party"??

Where's the comment or policies from the Democratic politicians in your piece.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2021, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2021, 12:41:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 13, 2021, 12:55:21 AM
Hyde Park which is home to former President Obama and the very prestigious University of Chicago has see a serious uptick in violent crime

Sadly to say 3 students have been murdered so far this year

"Last year, amid the George Floyd protests, many students challenged law enforcement and pushed for the abolishment and defunding of on-campus police, as reported by the Chicago Tribune."


https://wgntv.com/news/uchicago-leaders-cpd-address-campus-safety-fears-in-response-to-slain-graduate/?segment=1*9stx2z*s_amp_id*T1B0bjQwQjRlT3Q0MzhmanhNSF9EVnJmdmxxOFNHckdUT0tZZENuY29IelBORmhYNlhDNnFIR0R6cnBNeS15NQ..

(So after the most recent murder of an 18 year old Chinese lad there was a) "A rally last week on campus called attention to the violence surrounding the University of Chicago. The shooting death of recent graduate Dennis Zheng, during an afternoon robbery, highlighted the growing concern for safety.

And now another group has come out against the group who held this rally

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/outcry-as-uchicago-students-say-more-policing-surveillance-will-not-deter-future-gun-violence/amp/

So while "non college educated white people" are vilified for voting for Trump, this is the type of
of logic that our betters in the Democratic Party can come up with.

Poor put-upon whitey. "Betters in the Democratic Party"??

Where's the comment or policies from the Democratic politicians in your piece.

For Democrats "white non college educated voters" is just a dog whistle for stupid people-ie those who aren't as smart, articulate, woke and well read as us elites who know better than everyone else

This counter protest is the type of flat out numbskullery that will lead to Trump gettin back in in 2024

When it happens, remember where you read about it first

People have had it with the BS

Joe has surrounded himself with a bunch of absolute fvckin clowns

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2021, 02:02:12 PM
Right, maybe the Dems should get up there and announce "I love the poorly educated" like Trump did.

Will THAT help?

Its notable that you are not actually offering any defense of the supposed grievances of the white working class towards the Dems and "elites".

All you're going on about is supposed arrogance and people thinking they "know better".

As if the current American right wing is not completely dripping with certainty and arrogance! I've never seen a movement more arrogant, aggressive and in-your-face when it comes to political leanings and demonization.

Yes, supposed liberal elitism the bedrock foundation of the American right wing's culture and ethos, a common perceived and bullshit enemy against which to unite, but aren't you supposed to be some kind of independently-minded, principled conservative, presumably above such utter nonsense?

Leaving that aside, why don't you tell us why the policies and actions and rhetoric of Trump that generate such fervent devotion amongst his following should be worthy of more respect?

And if those are not worthy of respect, then why should those who follow them anyway be worthy of respect?

If its all so respectable, are you willing to out yourself now as a member of the Republican Party?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2021, 02:23:32 PM
So Joy Reid was on MSNBC telling flat out lies, and she was respectfully called out by rabid right winger Sarah Silverman (sarcasm) who's now being accused of racism for having the audacity to question a POC

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theblaze.com/amp/sarah-silverman-responds-liberal-critics-joy-reid-2656005208

Clock is ticking J70....you need to get your peeps to take their heads out of their rear ends ASAP

People are done with the BS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2021, 02:33:33 PM
Are you on the beer this morning or something?

Did the wife throw you out of the house?

You seem a wee bit agitated whitey.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 13, 2021, 09:41:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2021, 02:33:33 PM
Are you on the beer this morning or something?

Did the wife throw you out of the house?

You seem a wee bit agitated whitey.

I've been in lockdown working on a big project and hadn't been paying attention until this weekend

I actually wanted the Democrats to succeed for the good of the country, but holy mackerel, are they doing their best to get Trump re elected in 2024

What the hell is wrong with them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 03:14:05 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 13, 2021, 09:41:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2021, 02:33:33 PM
Are you on the beer this morning or something?

Did the wife throw you out of the house?

You seem a wee bit agitated whitey.

I've been in lockdown working on a big project and hadn't been paying attention until this weekend

I actually wanted the Democrats to succeed for the good of the country, but holy mackerel, are they doing their best to get Trump re elected in 2024

What the hell is wrong with them

If you're talking about cancel culture, its every bit as bad on the right, if not worse.

In the case you referred to, a bunch of eejits on twitter went after Sarah Silverman. The only people they made look bad were themselves.  On the right, its the actual Republican Party cancelling anyone and everyone who dares to express a public doubt about the Big Lie or doesn't prostrate themselves in front of the orange turd.

Next year's election will be about the economy and Covid. If things are going well, the Dems might get by without disastrous losses in terms of numbers (both chambers will change hands unfortunately for everyone).

2024 and Trump - its going to come down to whether the Dems can find a serious and vital candidate. Although I think their chances will actually be better if Trump wins the other nomination. If the GOP is sensible and eases him off the stage, someone like DeSantis has a very good chance. He's great at the culture war nonsense and the demonization game, but seems to lack the self-destructive streak that has cost Trump.

Speaking of Trump... for someone who loves to throw the Fredo label around, how f**king pathetic is it that his own son, slimy sc**bag though he may be, had to send his pleas for Trump to call off the riot mob through Mark Meadows, along with Hannity, Ingraham and the rest  of the Fox News dirtbags (even as they publicly blamed Antifa and  false flags).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 15, 2021, 09:39:04 AM
It's pathetic indictment of the Democrats and this Presidency that all the talk is of them getting a suitable candidate when they currently hold the office of President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 10:37:03 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2021, 09:39:04 AM
It's pathetic indictment of the Democrats and this Presidency that all the talk is of them getting a suitable candidate when they currently hold the office of President.

I think there would be talk regardless of how this presidency was and will go. Biden could play a blinder for the next three years, but he is old, simple as that. Everyone was aware of this before he was elected, but the main need was to stop another destructive Trump term. There was plenty of talk of him being a one-term president before the election. Sure some of the GOP, including some of our friends here, were predicting he'd step down shortly into his term in favour of Kamala.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2021, 12:35:43 PM
I thought Joe would do a lot better than he has

I don't blame him for Afghanistan, but his handling of the reopening of the economy and the border crisi has been pathetic to say the least

WTF was Mayor Pete doing taking 4 months off and him in charge of the ports and transportation?

And as for Kamala-enough said. She's actually worse than I thought she's be, and Inset her a pretty low bar
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 15, 2021, 02:42:48 PM
Did everyone at Fox get Mark Meadows phone number?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 02:58:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 12:35:43 PM
I thought Joe would do a lot better than he has

I don't blame him for Afghanistan, but his handling of the reopening of the economy and the border crisi has been pathetic to say the least

WTF was Mayor Pete doing taking 4 months off and him in charge of the ports and transportation?

And as for Kamala-enough said. She's actually worse than I thought she's be, and Inset her a pretty low bar

How bad IS the economy though?

Inflation is high due to the worldwide supply chain problems, yet employment is edging down towards full. Real estate is booming.

What would you have had Biden do differently in retrospect that would have made a difference?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 03:00:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 15, 2021, 02:42:48 PM
Did everyone at Fox get Mark Meadows phone number?

Given that the WH and FN was pretty much a seamlessly integrated organization, probably anyone who wanted it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2021, 03:16:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 02:58:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 12:35:43 PM
I thought Joe would do a lot better than he has

I don't blame him for Afghanistan, but his handling of the reopening of the economy and the border crisi has been pathetic to say the least

WTF was Mayor Pete doing taking 4 months off and him in charge of the ports and transportation?

And as for Kamala-enough said. She's actually worse than I thought she's be, and Inset her a pretty low bar

How bad IS the economy though?

Inflation is high due to the worldwide supply chain problems, yet employment is edging down towards full. Real estate is booming.

What would you have had Biden do differently in retrospect that would have made a difference?

I never said the economy was bad and I'm not solely blaming him for inflation

He should have taken very bold steps to assist the re opening,(especially with the ports) yet was reacting to crises rather than averting them

Shutting down the XL pipeline was a boneheaded move. Gas is now $3.55 a gallon in Boston....full blown own goal

While we're near full employment, labor force participation is still way off where it needs to be.

Kamala in in charge of the Border but I can't think of one thing she's done-she hasn't even gone down there AFIK

And now, he's focusing on Build Back Better-which will make inflation way worse.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 15, 2021, 03:42:32 PM
So 0.79c a litre for gas in America is expensive??

The cheapest I've seen it here this past week is £1.39 more than double the price... you lads don't know you're living!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2021, 04:00:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 15, 2021, 03:42:32 PM
So 0.79c a litre for gas in America is expensive??

The cheapest I've seen it here this past week is £1.39 more than double the price... you lads don't know you're living!!!!

LOL

All I know is that it costs me $53 to fill up

15 gallons X $3.55

But I do have a hybrid so it's not too bad
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:03:46 PM
Yes, Americans have no idea how cheap it is here, even now.

And Biden was correct to shut down the XL pipeline. He campaigned on it, and tar sands are about as far from an environmentally friendly source of fuel as you can get. Besides, how can cancelling an under-construction pipeline affect gasoline prices in such a short space of time?

On whitey's point about the ports, he might be correct, but if he is, Biden is hardly alone across the globe in not foreseeing the problems which could occur as Covid caused a tsunami in consumer spending on goods.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:03:46 PM
Yes, Americans have no idea how cheap it is here, even now.

And Biden was correct to shut down the XL pipeline. He campaigned on it, and tar sands are about as far from an environmentally friendly source of fuel as you can get. Besides, how can cancelling an under-construction pipeline affect gasoline prices in such a short space of time?

On whitey's point about the ports, he might be correct, but if he is, Biden is hardly alone across the globe in not foreseeing the problems which could occur as Covid caused a tsunami in consumer spending on goods.
in California you don't even have to pay for goods just walk in take what you need and leave thank you very much . It's a Democrat utopia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:31:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:03:46 PM
Yes, Americans have no idea how cheap it is here, even now.

And Biden was correct to shut down the XL pipeline. He campaigned on it, and tar sands are about as far from an environmentally friendly source of fuel as you can get. Besides, how can cancelling an under-construction pipeline affect gasoline prices in such a short space of time?

On whitey's point about the ports, he might be correct, but if he is, Biden is hardly alone across the globe in not foreseeing the problems which could occur as Covid caused a tsunami in consumer spending on goods.
in California you don't even have to pay for goods just walk in take what you need and leave thank you very much . It's a Democrat utopia.

For those who don't get Gmac's typically vague references, he's on about organized gangs of young people invading high end shops in California and robbing jewelry and electronics and so on.

Supposedly those of us who are Democrats are all for this type of criminality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 15, 2021, 04:54:12 PM
are they still giving away heroin(e) to the homeless in San Francisco hotels?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 04:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:31:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:03:46 PM
Yes, Americans have no idea how cheap it is here, even now.

And Biden was correct to shut down the XL pipeline. He campaigned on it, and tar sands are about as far from an environmentally friendly source of fuel as you can get. Besides, how can cancelling an under-construction pipeline affect gasoline prices in such a short space of time?

On whitey's point about the ports, he might be correct, but if he is, Biden is hardly alone across the globe in not foreseeing the problems which could occur as Covid caused a tsunami in consumer spending on goods.
in California you don't even have to pay for goods just walk in take what you need and leave thank you very much . It's a Democrat utopia.

For those who don't get Gmac's typically vague references, he's on about organized gangs of young people invading high end shops in California and robbing jewelry and electronics and so on.

Supposedly those of us who are Democrats are all for this type of criminality.
cvs and Walgreens are hardly high end stores but they are being robbed and are closing all over the place, $950 or under have at it scumbags.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 04:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:31:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:03:46 PM
Yes, Americans have no idea how cheap it is here, even now.

And Biden was correct to shut down the XL pipeline. He campaigned on it, and tar sands are about as far from an environmentally friendly source of fuel as you can get. Besides, how can cancelling an under-construction pipeline affect gasoline prices in such a short space of time?

On whitey's point about the ports, he might be correct, but if he is, Biden is hardly alone across the globe in not foreseeing the problems which could occur as Covid caused a tsunami in consumer spending on goods.
in California you don't even have to pay for goods just walk in take what you need and leave thank you very much . It's a Democrat utopia.

For those who don't get Gmac's typically vague references, he's on about organized gangs of young people invading high end shops in California and robbing jewelry and electronics and so on.

Supposedly those of us who are Democrats are all for this type of criminality.
cvs and Walgreens are hardly high end stores but they are being robbed and are closing all over the place, $950 or under have at it scumbags.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299 (https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 05:39:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 04:55:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:31:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 04:03:46 PM
Yes, Americans have no idea how cheap it is here, even now.

And Biden was correct to shut down the XL pipeline. He campaigned on it, and tar sands are about as far from an environmentally friendly source of fuel as you can get. Besides, how can cancelling an under-construction pipeline affect gasoline prices in such a short space of time?

On whitey's point about the ports, he might be correct, but if he is, Biden is hardly alone across the globe in not foreseeing the problems which could occur as Covid caused a tsunami in consumer spending on goods.
in California you don't even have to pay for goods just walk in take what you need and leave thank you very much . It's a Democrat utopia.

For those who don't get Gmac's typically vague references, he's on about organized gangs of young people invading high end shops in California and robbing jewelry and electronics and so on.

Supposedly those of us who are Democrats are all for this type of criminality.
cvs and Walgreens are hardly high end stores but they are being robbed and are closing all over the place, $950 or under have at it scumbags.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299 (https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299)
I saw assistant to George gascon and stopped reading did nobody ask the lying sf da boudin his opinion, the reality is what it is it's mostly black criminals taking advantage of the current climate in the country who know they won't be prosecuted and that's the truth , deal with it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 15, 2021, 05:42:53 PM
a lovely bit of casual racism
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2021, 05:44:14 PM
Did anyone see the video of the guy in the Walgreens looting the store-and then cycled out the door on his bike with 2 big bags on the handlebars

Like the old timers used to do in Ireland decades ago when they cycled to town for the messages on the high Nelly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 05:47:58 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 15, 2021, 05:42:53 PM
a lovely bit of casual racism

Indeed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 05:44:14 PM
Did anyone see the video of the guy in the Walgreens looting the store-and then cycled out the door on his bike with 2 big bags on the handlebars

Like the old timers used to do in Ireland decades ago when they cycled to town for the messages on the high Nelly

High Nelly.

I've often wondered what those bikes were called.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...


If 99.99% of people committing a specific crime are of one race, and the police announce they are not going to prosecute that particular crime, is it not a reasonable conclusion to reach?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 16, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...


If 99.99% of people committing a specific crime are of one race, and the police announce they are not going to prosecute that particular crime, is it not a reasonable conclusion to reach?

1. Where have police announced they're not prosecuting these smash-and-grab robbery sprees?
2. If they have made such an announcement, where is the evidence that it is tied to race rather than some more mundane reason such as, say, resources?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...


If 99.99% of people committing a specific crime are of one race, and the police announce they are not going to prosecute that particular crime, is it not a reasonable conclusion to reach?

1. Where have police announced they're not prosecuting these smash-and-grab robbery sprees?
2. If they have made such an announcement, where is the evidence that it is tied to race rather than some more mundane reason such as, say, resources?


The DA in Massachusetts said shoplifting any larcen under $250 wouldn't be prosecuted

"Shoplifting (including offenses that are essentially shoplifting but charged as larceny)"

In other jurisdictions the number is different

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 16, 2021, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...


If 99.99% of people committing a specific crime are of one race, and the police announce they are not going to prosecute that particular crime, is it not a reasonable conclusion to reach?

1. Where have police announced they're not prosecuting these smash-and-grab robbery sprees?
2. If they have made such an announcement, where is the evidence that it is tied to race rather than some more mundane reason such as, say, resources?


The DA in Massachusetts said shoplifting any larcen under $250 wouldn't be prosecuted

"Shoplifting (including offenses that are essentially shoplifting but charged as larceny)"

In other jurisdictions the number is different

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/

1. Clearly the law has to catch up to the crimes in some areas with these smash-and-grab gangs if there are no other applicable charges that can be applied.
2. What has petty larceny or any of the other stuff on that list got to do with being black?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...


If 99.99% of people committing a specific crime are of one race, and the police announce they are not going to prosecute that particular crime, is it not a reasonable conclusion to reach?

1. Where have police announced they're not prosecuting these smash-and-grab robbery sprees?
2. If they have made such an announcement, where is the evidence that it is tied to race rather than some more mundane reason such as, say, resources?


The DA in Massachusetts said shoplifting any larcen under $250 wouldn't be prosecuted

"Shoplifting (including offenses that are essentially shoplifting but charged as larceny)"

In other jurisdictions the number is different

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/

1. Clearly the law has to catch up to the crimes in some areas with these smash-and-grab gangs if there are no other applicable charges that can be applied.
2. What has petty larceny or any of the other stuff on that list got to do with being black?

If the vast and overwhelming majority of defendants historically prosecuted for this list of crimes in Suffolk County are African American.....you can draw whatever conclusion you want as to the prosecutors motivation

She has also  made public comments that back up race as being her motivation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 16, 2021, 02:02:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...


If 99.99% of people committing a specific crime are of one race, and the police announce they are not going to prosecute that particular crime, is it not a reasonable conclusion to reach?

1. Where have police announced they're not prosecuting these smash-and-grab robbery sprees?
2. If they have made such an announcement, where is the evidence that it is tied to race rather than some more mundane reason such as, say, resources?


The DA in Massachusetts said shoplifting any larcen under $250 wouldn't be prosecuted

"Shoplifting (including offenses that are essentially shoplifting but charged as larceny)"

In other jurisdictions the number is different

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/

1. Clearly the law has to catch up to the crimes in some areas with these smash-and-grab gangs if there are no other applicable charges that can be applied.
2. What has petty larceny or any of the other stuff on that list got to do with being black?

If the vast and overwhelming majority of defendants historically prosecuted for this list of crimes in Suffolk County are African American.....you can draw whatever conclusion you want as to the prosecutors motivation

She has also  made public comments that back up race as being her motivation

She said she doesn't want to prosecute people for these crimes solely because they're much more likely to be black? She is biased towards black people?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 16, 2021, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 02:02:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...


If 99.99% of people committing a specific crime are of one race, and the police announce they are not going to prosecute that particular crime, is it not a reasonable conclusion to reach?

1. Where have police announced they're not prosecuting these smash-and-grab robbery sprees?
2. If they have made such an announcement, where is the evidence that it is tied to race rather than some more mundane reason such as, say, resources?


The DA in Massachusetts said shoplifting any larcen under $250 wouldn't be prosecuted

"Shoplifting (including offenses that are essentially shoplifting but charged as larceny)"

In other jurisdictions the number is different

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/

1. Clearly the law has to catch up to the crimes in some areas with these smash-and-grab gangs if there are no other applicable charges that can be applied.
2. What has petty larceny or any of the other stuff on that list got to do with being black?

If the vast and overwhelming majority of defendants historically prosecuted for this list of crimes in Suffolk County are African American.....you can draw whatever conclusion you want as to the prosecutors motivation

She has also  made public comments that back up race as being her motivation

She said she doesn't want to prosecute people for these crimes solely because they're much more likely to be black? She is biased towards black people?

Yes

That is essentially what she said
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 16, 2021, 03:29:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 02:02:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...


If 99.99% of people committing a specific crime are of one race, and the police announce they are not going to prosecute that particular crime, is it not a reasonable conclusion to reach?

1. Where have police announced they're not prosecuting these smash-and-grab robbery sprees?
2. If they have made such an announcement, where is the evidence that it is tied to race rather than some more mundane reason such as, say, resources?


The DA in Massachusetts said shoplifting any larcen under $250 wouldn't be prosecuted

"Shoplifting (including offenses that are essentially shoplifting but charged as larceny)"

In other jurisdictions the number is different

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/

1. Clearly the law has to catch up to the crimes in some areas with these smash-and-grab gangs if there are no other applicable charges that can be applied.
2. What has petty larceny or any of the other stuff on that list got to do with being black?

If the vast and overwhelming majority of defendants historically prosecuted for this list of crimes in Suffolk County are African American.....you can draw whatever conclusion you want as to the prosecutors motivation

She has also  made public comments that back up race as being her motivation

She said she doesn't want to prosecute people for these crimes solely because they're much more likely to be black? She is biased towards black people?

Yes

That is essentially what she said

I guess we'll have to take your word for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 16, 2021, 04:24:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 03:29:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 02:02:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 15, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
I think every video I've seen of smash and grab the culprits have all been black youths you might not like it but it's true and the couple I've witnessed personally the same applies

That may well be true.

That doesn't mean that they're supposedly (a) getting a free pass (b) because they're black.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary...


If 99.99% of people committing a specific crime are of one race, and the police announce they are not going to prosecute that particular crime, is it not a reasonable conclusion to reach?

1. Where have police announced they're not prosecuting these smash-and-grab robbery sprees?
2. If they have made such an announcement, where is the evidence that it is tied to race rather than some more mundane reason such as, say, resources?


The DA in Massachusetts said shoplifting any larcen under $250 wouldn't be prosecuted

"Shoplifting (including offenses that are essentially shoplifting but charged as larceny)"

In other jurisdictions the number is different

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/

1. Clearly the law has to catch up to the crimes in some areas with these smash-and-grab gangs if there are no other applicable charges that can be applied.
2. What has petty larceny or any of the other stuff on that list got to do with being black?

If the vast and overwhelming majority of defendants historically prosecuted for this list of crimes in Suffolk County are African American.....you can draw whatever conclusion you want as to the prosecutors motivation

She has also  made public comments that back up race as being her motivation

She said she doesn't want to prosecute people for these crimes solely because they're much more likely to be black? She is biased towards black people?

Yes

That is essentially what she said

I guess we'll have to take your word for it.


Believe what you want

"Rollins characterized the letter from Executive Office of Public Safety and Security Secretary Thomas A. Turco warning against Rollins' recent policy memo as an attempt to interfere with her pledge to tackle the mass incarceration of people of color in Suffolk County."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.masslive.com/boston/2019/04/this-is-precisely-what-suffolk-county-wants-da-rachael-rollins-stands-behind-pledge-not-to-prosecute-low-level-crimes.html%3foutputType=amp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 16, 2021, 07:31:50 PM
She is trying to redress the proportionately harsh treatment black people receive from the justice system compared to white people. That doesn't mean that they're getting more favourable treatment or getting away with shit just because they're black. Some white lad who gets in a bar fight will get the same leniency, whereas previously, he'd probably get off while the black guy in a similar fight gets arrested, prosecuted and a record.
And the directive is for default. Which means it can be waived if the circumstances warrant it. You can argue the merits of which charges are included and whether the threshold should be higher in some or all cases, but is that any worse than some lad ended up in prison for decades or life for piddly shit due to repeat offenses or harsh minimum sentences?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 16, 2021, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 07:31:50 PM
She is trying to redress the proportionately harsh treatment black people receive from the justice system compared to white people. That doesn't mean that they're getting more favourable treatment or getting away with shit just because they're black. Some white lad who gets in a bar fight will get the same leniency, whereas previously, he'd probably get off while the black guy in a similar fight gets arrested, prosecuted and a record.
And the directive is for default. Which means it can be waived if the circumstances warrant it. You can argue the merits of which charges are included and whether the threshold should be higher in some or all cases, but is that any worse than some lad ended up in prison for decades or life for piddly shit due to repeat offenses or harsh minimum sentences?


Doesn't matter what her motivation is

The FACT is that the policy is  directly and intentionally designed to NOT prosecute persons of color in an effort to right prior wrongs

(I don't necessarily disagree with her reasoning, but it is what it is)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 16, 2021, 11:40:57 PM
Just noticing a lot of Republicans crying about Democrats spending driving up inflation. . .

Are Democrats in charge of the other hundred or so countries experiencing inflation at the minute as well?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on December 17, 2021, 12:59:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 07:31:50 PM
She is trying to redress the proportionately harsh treatment black people receive from the justice system compared to white people. That doesn't mean that they're getting more favourable treatment or getting away with shit just because they're black. Some white lad who gets in a bar fight will get the same leniency, whereas previously, he'd probably get off while the black guy in a similar fight gets arrested, prosecuted and a record.
And the directive is for default. Which means it can be waived if the circumstances warrant it. You can argue the merits of which charges are included and whether the threshold should be higher in some or all cases, but is that any worse than some lad ended up in prison for decades or life for piddly shit due to repeat offenses or harsh minimum sentences?


Doesn't matter what her motivation is

The FACT is that the policy is  directly and intentionally designed to NOT prosecute persons of color in an effort to right prior wrongs

(I don't necessarily disagree with her reasoning, but it is what it is)
That's your ugly racially biased (unsupported) interpretation.
This DA sounds like a breath of fresh air, she has the support of the vast majority in her area, I hope she makes good on her progressive promises.  The USA make Turkey look like a liberal nirvana for criminals.

(https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/262961/countries-with-the-most-prisoners.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 17, 2021, 01:24:43 AM
Do you have issues with reading comprehension or do you have a learning disability of some sort?

The DA herself said that's why she changed the law? Not me-the DA said it

And I also saiid that I don't disagree with her
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 16, 2021, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 16, 2021, 07:31:50 PM
She is trying to redress the proportionately harsh treatment black people receive from the justice system compared to white people. That doesn't mean that they're getting more favourable treatment or getting away with shit just because they're black. Some white lad who gets in a bar fight will get the same leniency, whereas previously, he'd probably get off while the black guy in a similar fight gets arrested, prosecuted and a record.
And the directive is for default. Which means it can be waived if the circumstances warrant it. You can argue the merits of which charges are included and whether the threshold should be higher in some or all cases, but is that any worse than some lad ended up in prison for decades or life for piddly shit due to repeat offenses or harsh minimum sentences?


Doesn't matter what her motivation is

The FACT is that the policy is  directly and intentionally designed to NOT prosecute persons of color in an effort to right prior wrongs

(I don't necessarily disagree with her reasoning, but it is what it is)

Fair enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 21, 2021, 03:13:50 PM
Biden's Economic Performance Has Proved Unbeatable!!

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-12-20/president-biden-s-economic-performance-has-proved-unbeatable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 21, 2021, 04:05:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2021, 03:13:50 PM
Biden's Economic Performance Has Proved Unbeatable!!

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-12-20/president-biden-s-economic-performance-has-proved-unbeatable

Economy is doing great for those in the middle and the top

Those at the bottom getting hosed

It's all a mirage though-they've pumped so much liquidity into the system it would be almost impossible not to have a good economy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 21, 2021, 10:37:04 PM
So Trump gets booster but encourages supporters not to wear masks or bother with vaccination, they are strange bedfellows.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on December 22, 2021, 12:55:15 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2021, 03:13:50 PM
Biden's Economic Performance Has Proved Unbeatable!!

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-12-20/president-biden-s-economic-performance-has-proved-unbeatable

I normally stay out of tread but this is a real case of give me a set of statistics and I can paint a picture either way. Which of the other presidents on there had a pandemic preceding their entry into office? Coming from a place where the economy was shut down last year due to Covid, millions were laid off, market tanked, etc. When the economy starts to get opened up post vaccine then of course the numbers will look good.

There is so much to be concerned about here right now. Its a very divided country where you are either completely with one side or completely against, there is no middle ground anymore. The media are completely biased in one direction or the other and to be honest are fanning the hate in the country today because its good for ratings, at what point are they, the media, culpable for this? The above piece is a prime example of this, he's doing a great job while another source will show how low his rating are. There is no balanced news here.  I live in an area where I can't speak freely or I'm accused of being a privileged white middle aged male even though I have voted democratic for the majority of the time I have lived here.

Manchin is a Saint or a Villain depending on which media outlet you look at, a complete flip of where John McCain was a Villain or a Saint on the same networks when he cast the "51st vote" on Obamacare repeal.   

Right now there are more Senators/House Reps from both parties that are closer in views than they are to the extremists from their own party. There is a huge void in the middle that could be filled with a new party and break the two party system. The republicans are being driven by a racist element while the dems are being driven by a socialist element.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 22, 2021, 01:45:19 AM
Muck Savage, why would you not be able to speak freely? We all have to hold our tongue in certain situations. My in-laws are from the rural west. I don't head out there every summer and sit talking shit about Trump and the GOP at the back yard bbq. I live in a fairly conservative part of Queens. I similarly keep my political thoughts mostly to myself to avoid conflict and to be neighbourly. Similarly I work with loads of blue collar white guys and don't go spouting off there. I'm there to work, not to be unprofessional and mouth off.

Agree with some of what you say on the division, but the right wing has gone completely off the reservation. And while there is certainly a socialist element in the Democratic Party (unavoidable given that they are the liberal party in a two-party system), the Democratic Party is far from socialist. If it was, Bernie would have been the candidate the last two times, not Hillary and especially not Biden. Bernie was there as a very viable choice, but the Democratic electorate didn't want him, partly out of electoral pragmatism, but also based on policy. In fact, are there any socialist governors out there, never mind presidents? Are there any socialist senators apart from Bernie, part of whose appeal is his historic and continuing independence?

On Manchin, I've stated here before that the left of the Democratic Party needs to wake up. They've a razor-thin majority in both chambers, and without allowing room for the likes of Manchin or Tester and so on, they'll never have a majority in the Senate for the next generation. Its either Manchin, or its Mr. SuckTrumpsDick von StopTheSteal, Junior Senator from West Virginia. There is simply no way around that. Even the current majority is being enjoyed partly because Trump basically threw the Georgia senate races purely for his own vanity.

They need to sit these guys down, figure out what they CAN support, and proceed from there. Pass what they can and get out and explain how it will help people, instead of heading down the route of massive, transformative legislation that Fox News can demogogue and demonize for the next year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on December 22, 2021, 05:32:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 01:45:19 AM
Muck Savage, why would you not be able to speak freely? We all have to hold our tongue in certain situations. My in-laws are from the rural west. I don't head out there every summer and sit talking shit about Trump and the GOP at the back yard bbq. I live in a fairly conservative part of Queens. I similarly keep my political thoughts mostly to myself to avoid conflict and to be neighbourly. Similarly I work with loads of blue collar white guys and don't go spouting off there. I'm there to work, not to be unprofessional and mouth off.
You answer most of your question in the 2nd part of your paragraph, however in this area if you don't agree with folks you're a racist, white privileged and your opinion does not count. I choose not to engage.

Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 01:45:19 AM
Agree with some of what you say on the division, but the right wing has gone completely off the reservation. And while there is certainly a socialist element in the Democratic Party (unavoidable given that they are the liberal party in a two-party system), the Democratic Party is far from socialist. If it was, Bernie would have been the candidate the last two times, not Hillary and especially not Biden. Bernie was there as a very viable choice, but the Democratic electorate didn't want him, partly out of electoral pragmatism, but also based on policy. In fact, are there any socialist governors out there, never mind presidents? Are there any socialist senators apart from Bernie, part of whose appeal is his historic and continuing independence?
Please go back and read my original post, I did not say the Democratic part was socialist. What I said was both parties are being driven by the far side of their parties. There is a Socialist section of the Dems "Progressive Left" that are trying to dictate what happens and similar on the Reps side with the Trump crew. Thankfully there are enough in the middle with sense to get a plan like the Infrastructure Bill through without needing the extreme side.

You point out that the right wing have gone completely off the reservation (this is probably offending someone in this day and age) but to many in the red states the Left wing have gone completely off the same piece of land. The problem is no one wants to look at the problems from the other persons view point in a effort to solve a problem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 22, 2021, 05:52:04 PM
I get that the Dems look like crazy people to those on the right, but at least part of that is down to their own extremism and the filter through which the Dems are presented to them.

The Dems are a mainstream centrist, social democratic party on any western scale. Yes, they have extremists, but those extremists don't dominate. They can get elected locally or to a House seat, but that's it.

Whereas the GOP is now completely dedicated to the veneration of Trump and all the logical and legal gymnastics that dedication demands. If you don't accept the election was stolen and our "freedoms" are under dire threat, you're done as a Republican representative in most of the country. In a few liberal areas, a moderate Republican CAN get elected statewide, but you're not getting elected in a red state without publicly buying into the personality cult. Then throw in Covid - apparently Trump himself was shaken this past weekend when he himself was jeered for finally urging his followers to get vaccinated and boosted - and all the Q-Anon and other conspiracy shit they give explicit and tacit approval to..

Believe me, I wish the US could get back to ten years ago, when the debate was over real stuff like taxes and jobs and environmental policy, and not on "solutions" to imagined thefts of elections and the big bad government and other shadowy phantoms coming for you and yours.

I'm all for looking at issues from the opposite perspective, but there has to be a common acceptance of basic, real facts and principles first.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 22, 2021, 06:14:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 05:52:04 PM
I get that the Dems look like crazy people to those on the right, but at least part of that is down to their own extremism and the filter through which the Dems are presented to them.

The Dems are a mainstream centrist, social democratic party on any western scale. Yes, they have extremists, but those extremists don't dominate. They can get elected locally or to a House seat, but that's it.

Whereas the GOP is now completely dedicated to the veneration of Trump and all the logical and legal gymnastics that dedication demands. If you don't accept the election was stolen and our "freedoms" are under dire threat, you're done as a Republican representative in most of the country. In a few liberal areas, a moderate Republican CAN get elected statewide, but you're not getting elected in a red state without publicly buying into the personality cult. Then throw in Covid - apparently Trump himself was shaken this past weekend when he himself was jeered for finally urging his followers to get vaccinated and boosted - and all the Q-Anon and other conspiracy shit they give explicit and tacit approval to..

Believe me, I wish the US could get back to ten years ago, when the debate was over real stuff like taxes and jobs and environmental policy, and not on "solutions" to imagined thefts of elections and the big bad government and other shadowy phantoms coming for you and yours.

I'm all for looking at issues from the opposite perspective, but there has to be a common acceptance of basic, real facts and principles first.

J70

Just to go back to Rittenhouse for a moment

The reality was that the people he shot were not the typical people you'd see at a BLM protest

They were Antifa/Anarchist/Anti police types who were just there to cause trouble and mayhem

FFS they burned  down a  car dealership owned by a person of color-if you count the Muslim fella who testified. How does that advance the cause of BLM?

Anyways, when he got found not guilty I saw him broadly labeled in the left wing media as a racist-how is a white guy shooting 3 other white people racist?

Joy Reid said that Elon Musk was a racist for calling Granny Warren a "Karen" because he culturally appropriated the term from African Americans

At this point, many sensible people I know are getting completely fed up with the Democrats and the media to the points that Trump actually has a good shot at getting re elected in 2024
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 22, 2021, 07:18:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2021, 06:14:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 05:52:04 PM
I get that the Dems look like crazy people to those on the right, but at least part of that is down to their own extremism and the filter through which the Dems are presented to them.

The Dems are a mainstream centrist, social democratic party on any western scale. Yes, they have extremists, but those extremists don't dominate. They can get elected locally or to a House seat, but that's it.

Whereas the GOP is now completely dedicated to the veneration of Trump and all the logical and legal gymnastics that dedication demands. If you don't accept the election was stolen and our "freedoms" are under dire threat, you're done as a Republican representative in most of the country. In a few liberal areas, a moderate Republican CAN get elected statewide, but you're not getting elected in a red state without publicly buying into the personality cult. Then throw in Covid - apparently Trump himself was shaken this past weekend when he himself was jeered for finally urging his followers to get vaccinated and boosted - and all the Q-Anon and other conspiracy shit they give explicit and tacit approval to..

Believe me, I wish the US could get back to ten years ago, when the debate was over real stuff like taxes and jobs and environmental policy, and not on "solutions" to imagined thefts of elections and the big bad government and other shadowy phantoms coming for you and yours.

I'm all for looking at issues from the opposite perspective, but there has to be a common acceptance of basic, real facts and principles first.

J70

Just to go back to Rittenhouse for a moment

The reality was that the people he shot were not the typical people you'd see at a BLM protest

They were Antifa/Anarchist/Anti police types who were just there to cause trouble and mayhem

FFS they burned  down a  car dealership owned by a person of color-if you count the Muslim fella who testified. How does that advance the cause of BLM?

Anyways, when he got found not guilty I saw him broadly labeled in the left wing media as a racist-how is a white guy shooting 3 other white people racist?

Joy Reid said that Elon Musk was a racist for calling Granny Warren a "Karen" because he culturally appropriated the term from African Americans

At this point, many sensible people I know are getting completely fed up with the Democrats and the media to the points that Trump actually has a good shot at getting re elected in 2024

But you're not justifying their voting for Trump.

You're just pointing out that their biases and information sources align them more with his side anyway.

Otherwise why would fuckwits on Twitter or a cable news personality sway them so much, when you have the actual GOP party itself, all the way up to their corrupt, amoral leader espousing racism and conspiracy theories on a daily basis?

Its basically "I hate political correctness and wokeness far more than I hate an anti-democratic, conspiratorial political movement completely in the grip of a narcissistic, corrupt, wannabe dictator".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 22, 2021, 07:30:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 07:18:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2021, 06:14:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 05:52:04 PM
I get that the Dems look like crazy people to those on the right, but at least part of that is down to their own extremism and the filter through which the Dems are presented to them.

The Dems are a mainstream centrist, social democratic party on any western scale. Yes, they have extremists, but those extremists don't dominate. They can get elected locally or to a House seat, but that's it.

Whereas the GOP is now completely dedicated to the veneration of Trump and all the logical and legal gymnastics that dedication demands. If you don't accept the election was stolen and our "freedoms" are under dire threat, you're done as a Republican representative in most of the country. In a few liberal areas, a moderate Republican CAN get elected statewide, but you're not getting elected in a red state without publicly buying into the personality cult. Then throw in Covid - apparently Trump himself was shaken this past weekend when he himself was jeered for finally urging his followers to get vaccinated and boosted - and all the Q-Anon and other conspiracy shit they give explicit and tacit approval to..

Believe me, I wish the US could get back to ten years ago, when the debate was over real stuff like taxes and jobs and environmental policy, and not on "solutions" to imagined thefts of elections and the big bad government and other shadowy phantoms coming for you and yours.

I'm all for looking at issues from the opposite perspective, but there has to be a common acceptance of basic, real facts and principles first.

J70

Just to go back to Rittenhouse for a moment

The reality was that the people he shot were not the typical people you'd see at a BLM protest

They were Antifa/Anarchist/Anti police types who were just there to cause trouble and mayhem

FFS they burned  down a  car dealership owned by a person of color-if you count the Muslim fella who testified. How does that advance the cause of BLM?

Anyways, when he got found not guilty I saw him broadly labeled in the left wing media as a racist-how is a white guy shooting 3 other white people racist?

Joy Reid said that Elon Musk was a racist for calling Granny Warren a "Karen" because he culturally appropriated the term from African Americans

At this point, many sensible people I know are getting completely fed up with the Democrats and the media to the points that Trump actually has a good shot at getting re elected in 2024

But you're not justifying their voting for Trump.

You're just pointing out that their biases and information sources align them more with his side anyway.

Otherwise why would fuckwits on Twitter or a cable news personality sway them so much, when you have the actual GOP party itself, all the way up to their corrupt, amoral leader espousing racism and conspiracy theories on a daily basis?

Its basically "I hate political correctness and wokeness far more than I hate an anti-democratic, conspiratorial political movement completely in the grip of a narcissistic, corrupt, wannabe dictator".

Not at all

People who didn't vote for him are getting bloody well fed up of being called racists/bigots because they don't agree with every item in the woke/pc agenda.

Say that Rittenhouse was not guilty-racist

Say that trans swimmer shouldn't be competing against female swimmers-transphobe

Agree with Elon Musk regarding Warren-racist and misogynist.

Agree with Manchin about BBB-all of the above


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 22, 2021, 08:58:01 PM
That would be all very well if the "woke agenda" etc was the Dem party platform.

It's not.

If someone is for the GOP/Trump anti-democratic movement, they should just man up and admit it and spare us the bullshit excuses. The GOP are proudly and defiantly legislating and preaching this stuff.

And the poor craytur who is so offended by Joy Reid, where are they on, say, Tucker Carlson? He is way more influential than her and just did a special on Jan 6 that was so repugnant that a couple of arch conservative pundits left their gigs as Fox News pundits. And that's just one single example.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 22, 2021, 11:52:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 08:58:01 PM
That would be all very well if the "woke agenda" etc was the Dem party platform.

It's not.

If someone is for the GOP/Trump anti-democratic movement, they should just man up and admit it and spare us the bullshit excuses. The GOP are proudly and defiantly legislating and preaching this stuff.

And the poor craytur who is so offended by Joy Reid, where are they on, say, Tucker Carlson? He is way more influential than her and just did a special on Jan 6 that was so repugnant that a couple of arch conservative pundits left their gigs as Fox News pundits. And that's just one single example.

If someone isn't on board with the agenda they're going to get primaried by the squad

If you can be accused of being a racist for calling someone a Karen, that's borderline insane and as offensive as anything Tucker has to say
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

https://abc7.com/11-year-old-boy-arrested-for-carjacking-grand-theft-auto-chicago-crime/11282410/


It's bordering on insane at this stage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on December 23, 2021, 01:34:16 AM
Hi boys I could write a book.in what I seen in Chicago. Including an Irish American lady murdered a hundred yards from me because she was white.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on December 23, 2021, 01:41:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

https://abc7.com/11-year-old-boy-arrested-for-carjacking-grand-theft-auto-chicago-crime/11282410/


It's bordering on insane at this stage

Doing a job for a Chicago cop at the minute he had just told me it took three squad cars to catch a car jacket. He burst the front tires going over a curb and that was how they caught up with him. The kid was born in 2008 so he was 13 madness.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 01:54:34 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on December 23, 2021, 01:41:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

https://abc7.com/11-year-old-boy-arrested-for-carjacking-grand-theft-auto-chicago-crime/11282410/


It's bordering on insane at this stage

Doing a job for a Chicago cop at the minute he had just told me it took three squad cars to catch a car jacket. He burst the front tires going over a curb and that was how they caught up with him. The kid was born in 2008 so he was 13 madness.

But if you dare criticize the parents of these kids you're a racist

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/11/04/mcgarbage-ceo-blasted-blaming-kids-parents-chicago-shootings/6279767001/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on December 23, 2021, 02:45:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 01:54:34 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on December 23, 2021, 01:41:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

https://abc7.com/11-year-old-boy-arrested-for-carjacking-grand-theft-auto-chicago-crime/11282410/


It's bordering on insane at this stage

Doing a job for a Chicago cop at the minute he had just told me it took three squad cars to catch a car jacket. He burst the front tires going over a curb and that was how they caught up with him. The kid was born in 2008 so he was 13 madness.

But if you dare criticize the parents of these kids you're a racist

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/11/04/mcgarbage-ceo-blasted-blaming-kids-parents-chicago-shootings/6279767001/

You see it's an unwinnable situation. If your looking to be popular then don't tell the truth.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 23, 2021, 09:28:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 22, 2021, 11:52:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 08:58:01 PM
That would be all very well if the "woke agenda" etc was the Dem party platform.

It's not.

If someone is for the GOP/Trump anti-democratic movement, they should just man up and admit it and spare us the bullshit excuses. The GOP are proudly and defiantly legislating and preaching this stuff.

And the poor craytur who is so offended by Joy Reid, where are they on, say, Tucker Carlson? He is way more influential than her and just did a special on Jan 6 that was so repugnant that a couple of arch conservative pundits left their gigs as Fox News pundits. And that's just one single example.

If someone isn't on board with the agenda they're going to get primaried by the squad

If you can be accused of being a racist for calling someone a Karen, that's borderline insane and as offensive as anything Tucker has to say

Oh yes, "the Squad".

Any decade now their purging of the Democratic Party will get into gear.

Meanwhile, Liz f**king Cheney has been expelled, and any congressional Republican who doesn't buy into the Trump bullshit has or is retiring.

Please.

Face it whitey. On the one hand you have a bunch of younger people in a section of the Democratic Party grappling with, sometimes very stupidly, the legacy of societal racism, sexism, homophobia etc.

On the other, you have an entire party who want to preserve the respectability of such prejudice and are totally invested in a wannabe strongman who wants to use their views to facilitate his own personal "glory", stealing elections along the way if necessary.

And who the hell was accused of racism for calling someone a "Karen"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 23, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

1. Did Philly "defund" the police?
2. What exact problem do you have with her actual proposals, to divert some police funding to mental health professionals to deal with certain situations? Do you think the police going in, guns drawn and blazing, is the solution to all situations with distressed or disturbed individuals?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

1. Did Philly "defund" the police?
2. What exact problem do you have with her actual proposals, to divert some police funding to mental health professionals to deal with certain situations? Do you think the police going in, guns drawn and blazing, is the solution to all situations with distressed or disturbed individuals?

J70.....it's a complete disgrace what's going on

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-district-attorney-da-larry-krasner-staff-turnover-20211222.html

"He wasn't really trying to prosecute. He was trying to indoctrinate," said Newton, who was initially intrigued by Krasner's pitch for more equitable justice in communities like North Philadelphia, where Newton grew up. By the time he quit in 2020, he said, he came to believe Krasner was more interested in protecting defendants than crime victims and everyday citizens. "He would hire people that didn't think anybody belonged in jail at all. Why are you a prosecutor? He hired people who would cry after convicting someone."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:41:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

1. Did Philly "defund" the police?
2. What exact problem do you have with her actual proposals, to divert some police funding to mental health professionals to deal with certain situations? Do you think the police going in, guns drawn and blazing, is the solution to all situations with distressed or disturbed individuals?

J70.....it's a complete disgrace what's going on

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-district-attorney-da-larry-krasner-staff-turnover-20211222.html

"He wasn't really trying to prosecute. He was trying to indoctrinate," said Newton, who was initially intrigued by Krasner's pitch for more equitable justice in communities like North Philadelphia, where Newton grew up. By the time he quit in 2020, he said, he came to believe Krasner was more interested in protecting defendants than crime victims and everyday citizens. "He would hire people that didn't think anybody belonged in jail at all. Why are you a prosecutor? He hired people who would cry after convicting someone."

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that all of that, including Newton's opinion, are true, what does it have to do with my questions?

DID Philly defund the police?

Is there NO argument for reassigning some situations to other professionals?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:41:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

1. Did Philly "defund" the police?
2. What exact problem do you have with her actual proposals, to divert some police funding to mental health professionals to deal with certain situations? Do you think the police going in, guns drawn and blazing, is the solution to all situations with distressed or disturbed individuals?

J70.....it's a complete disgrace what's going on

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-district-attorney-da-larry-krasner-staff-turnover-20211222.html

"He wasn't really trying to prosecute. He was trying to indoctrinate," said Newton, who was initially intrigued by Krasner's pitch for more equitable justice in communities like North Philadelphia, where Newton grew up. By the time he quit in 2020, he said, he came to believe Krasner was more interested in protecting defendants than crime victims and everyday citizens. "He would hire people that didn't think anybody belonged in jail at all. Why are you a prosecutor? He hired people who would cry after convicting someone."

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that all of that, including Newton's opinion, are true, what does it have to do with my questions?

DID Philly defund the police?

Is there NO argument for reassigning some situations to other professionals?

"Defunding" the police combined with these rogue prosecutors is a deadly cocktail

The problem for the Democrats is that the crime is now creeping out into the suburbs and wealthy areas of the cities where swing voters reside

Smerconish is talking about Krasner as we speak. Definitely tune in if you can. He's fantastic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:48:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:41:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

1. Did Philly "defund" the police?
2. What exact problem do you have with her actual proposals, to divert some police funding to mental health professionals to deal with certain situations? Do you think the police going in, guns drawn and blazing, is the solution to all situations with distressed or disturbed individuals?

J70.....it's a complete disgrace what's going on

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-district-attorney-da-larry-krasner-staff-turnover-20211222.html

"He wasn't really trying to prosecute. He was trying to indoctrinate," said Newton, who was initially intrigued by Krasner's pitch for more equitable justice in communities like North Philadelphia, where Newton grew up. By the time he quit in 2020, he said, he came to believe Krasner was more interested in protecting defendants than crime victims and everyday citizens. "He would hire people that didn't think anybody belonged in jail at all. Why are you a prosecutor? He hired people who would cry after convicting someone."

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that all of that, including Newton's opinion, are true, what does it have to do with my questions?

DID Philly defund the police?

Is there NO argument for reassigning some situations to other professionals?

"Defunding" the police combined with these rogue prosecutors is a deadly cocktail

The problem for the Democrats is that the crime is now creeping out into the suburbs and wealthy areas of the cities where swing voters reside

So Philly DID defund the police?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:52:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:48:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:41:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

1. Did Philly "defund" the police?
2. What exact problem do you have with her actual proposals, to divert some police funding to mental health professionals to deal with certain situations? Do you think the police going in, guns drawn and blazing, is the solution to all situations with distressed or disturbed individuals?

J70.....it's a complete disgrace what's going on

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-district-attorney-da-larry-krasner-staff-turnover-20211222.html

"He wasn't really trying to prosecute. He was trying to indoctrinate," said Newton, who was initially intrigued by Krasner's pitch for more equitable justice in communities like North Philadelphia, where Newton grew up. By the time he quit in 2020, he said, he came to believe Krasner was more interested in protecting defendants than crime victims and everyday citizens. "He would hire people that didn't think anybody belonged in jail at all. Why are you a prosecutor? He hired people who would cry after convicting someone."

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that all of that, including Newton's opinion, are true, what does it have to do with my questions?

DID Philly defund the police?

Is there NO argument for reassigning some situations to other professionals?

"Defunding" the police combined with these rogue prosecutors is a deadly cocktail

The problem for the Democrats is that the crime is now creeping out into the suburbs and wealthy areas of the cities where swing voters reside

So Philly DID defund the police?

No idea and it's irrelevant

If you were the victim of crime or had a family member who was,  would vote for-a party who favors defunding the police and electing soft on crime prosecutors like Kasner/Fox/Rollins
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 23, 2021, 03:03:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:52:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:48:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:41:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

1. Did Philly "defund" the police?
2. What exact problem do you have with her actual proposals, to divert some police funding to mental health professionals to deal with certain situations? Do you think the police going in, guns drawn and blazing, is the solution to all situations with distressed or disturbed individuals?

J70.....it's a complete disgrace what's going on

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-district-attorney-da-larry-krasner-staff-turnover-20211222.html

"He wasn't really trying to prosecute. He was trying to indoctrinate," said Newton, who was initially intrigued by Krasner's pitch for more equitable justice in communities like North Philadelphia, where Newton grew up. By the time he quit in 2020, he said, he came to believe Krasner was more interested in protecting defendants than crime victims and everyday citizens. "He would hire people that didn't think anybody belonged in jail at all. Why are you a prosecutor? He hired people who would cry after convicting someone."

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that all of that, including Newton's opinion, are true, what does it have to do with my questions?

DID Philly defund the police?

Is there NO argument for reassigning some situations to other professionals?

"Defunding" the police combined with these rogue prosecutors is a deadly cocktail

The problem for the Democrats is that the crime is now creeping out into the suburbs and wealthy areas of the cities where swing voters reside

So Philly DID defund the police?

No idea and it's irrelevant

If you were the victim of crime or had a family member who was,  would vote for-a party who favors defunding the police and electing soft on crime prosecutors like Kasner/Fox/Rollins

Its relevant to what I was asking Gmac in response to his gloating over the congresswoman's car jacking.

The Dems don't favour defunding the police. Individual members and candidates may, but that's for the voters to decide in those local elections. Joe Biden didn't favour it. NYC, a 75% Dem city, elected an ex-cop who doesn't favour it as mayor over several candidates who did. Whoever wins the governor's election here next will not be in favour as such a candidate will not get through the Democratic primaries.

If this Philly DA is as bad as you're making out, he'll be primaried and out on his ear next time (and not because of "The Squad").

Which again, doesn't mean that there isn't a legitimate role for non-police first responders and funding of same.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 03:31:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 03:03:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:52:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:48:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 02:41:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 23, 2021, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
US congress rep Mary scanlon carjacked and robbed in south Philly , a big defund the police and bail reform head .
I'm sure she's delighted to see her policy in action.
Hope she got a good close up look at it in action.

1. Did Philly "defund" the police?
2. What exact problem do you have with her actual proposals, to divert some police funding to mental health professionals to deal with certain situations? Do you think the police going in, guns drawn and blazing, is the solution to all situations with distressed or disturbed individuals?

J70.....it's a complete disgrace what's going on

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-district-attorney-da-larry-krasner-staff-turnover-20211222.html

"He wasn't really trying to prosecute. He was trying to indoctrinate," said Newton, who was initially intrigued by Krasner's pitch for more equitable justice in communities like North Philadelphia, where Newton grew up. By the time he quit in 2020, he said, he came to believe Krasner was more interested in protecting defendants than crime victims and everyday citizens. "He would hire people that didn't think anybody belonged in jail at all. Why are you a prosecutor? He hired people who would cry after convicting someone."

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that all of that, including Newton's opinion, are true, what does it have to do with my questions?

DID Philly defund the police?

Is there NO argument for reassigning some situations to other professionals?

"Defunding" the police combined with these rogue prosecutors is a deadly cocktail

The problem for the Democrats is that the crime is now creeping out into the suburbs and wealthy areas of the cities where swing voters reside

So Philly DID defund the police?

No idea and it's irrelevant

If you were the victim of crime or had a family member who was,  would vote for-a party who favors defunding the police and electing soft on crime prosecutors like Kasner/Fox/Rollins

Its relevant to what I was asking Gmac in response to his gloating over the congresswoman's car jacking.

The Dems don't favour defunding the police. Individual members and candidates may, but that's for the voters to decide in those local elections. Joe Biden didn't favour it. NYC, a 75% Dem city, elected an ex-cop who doesn't favour it as mayor over several candidates who did. Whoever wins the governor's election here next will not be in favour as such a candidate will not get through the Democratic primaries.

If this Philly DA is as bad as you're making out, he'll be primaried and out on his ear next time (and not because of "The Squad").

Which again, doesn't mean that there isn't a legitimate role for non-police first responders and funding of same.

Well he did get primaried and steamrolled his opponent by 30/40 points

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/philly-da-larry-krasner-wins-democratic-primary-over-challenger-carlos-vega/2819155/%3famp

The types of people who vote in Democratic primaries are all in favor of these policies

And again...it doesn't matter whether it's true or not

If your Republican opponent can stick you with it that's all that counts. And the Democrats play the same game all the time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 04:11:52 PM
From today's WSJ

OPINION  REVIEW & OUTLOOK
A Larry Krasner Christmas
Happy holidays from Philadelphia's criminals to a wedding party and even a U.S. Congresswoman.
By  The Editorial Board 
Follow
Dec. 22, 2021 6:49 pm ET


District Attorney Larry Krasner addresses the Stop Killing Us anti-gun violence rally in Philadelphia,


On the unseasonably warm night of Dec. 10, a groom stepped outside of his wedding reception for a breath of fresh air. Two men saw him. One drew a handgun, and they demanded the groom's Rolex watch. The robbery occurred downtown a short stroll away from the Liberty Bell.

Welcome to the holiday season in Larry Krasner's Philadelphia. Days before the groom's ambush, the progressive district attorney claimed that "we don't have a crisis of lawlessness, we don't have a crisis of crime, we don't have a crisis of violence." The remarks infuriated Philadelphia residents, who are the victims of the crime he said doesn't exist.



Philadelphia has seen a record 544 homicides so far this year, up from 347 in the entirety of 2019. Police have recorded some 1,785 nonfatal shootings this year. More than 84% of the victims of the gun violence in 2021 were black, according to the Philadelphia Office of the Controller.


Police data also shows some 2,283 gun robberies as of Dec. 19, a 28.6% increase over the same period last year. Retail theft is up more than 20% this year, and auto theft more than 15%, with nearly 11,000 vehicles stolen.


The crime surge has spared no district. On Dec. 7, robbers stole Rolex watches from a man and his son as they left the Philadelphia Four Seasons hotel. One of the criminals "had the gun right to my stomach area," victim Drew Williams told the local Action News. Police said Wednesday that no suspects have been arrested in either the Four Seasons or wedding crimes.

The Four Seasons heist was one of some 25 armed robberies in the posh Center City neighborhood in the first half of December, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. But poor and minority neighborhoods have borne the true brunt, though those crimes receive less media attention.

Even as we were writing this, a report came over the wire that U.S. Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon was carjacked and robbed at gunpoint on Wednesday afternoon shortly after finishing a meeting at FDR Park in Philly. Ms. Scanlon was walking back to her car when she was approached by two armed men who demanded her car keys and personal belongings, according to a spokeswoman. She handed over her belongings, including personal and government cell phones—and the two men drove away in her 2017 Acura MDX.

The crime surge is a direct result of Mr. Krasner's soft-on-criminals policy. He has bragged that the county jail population decreased 40% in his first three years in office. Police data show property crime is up nearly 7% for 2021 compared to 2017, the year before Mr. Krasner became district attorney. But Mr. Krasner's office has charged only some 3,740 people for property crimes this year, down from 7,500 over the same period of 2017. No wonder criminals feel it's urban hunting season.


After a public backlash, Mr. Krasner walked back his claim that there was no crime crisis in Philadelphia. "I know that some inarticulate things I said earlier this week have offended people," he said on Dec. 9. "I did not acknowledge the pain and the hurt that people feel in the city of Philadelphia," he said on Dec. 13.

That half-apology means little as criminals now treat Philadelphia streets as if they have free rein to rob anyone at any time of the day. Wedding parties may soon need their own security in the City of Brotherly Mayhem.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 04:21:28 PM
FWIW

The company I work for holds an annual in person meeting

Chicago is a central location so the meeting is often held there. 

I've been told that Chicago is now off the table for this years meeting as certain people feel that it's unsafe

So that's 300 hotel nights (100 people-3 nights) 300 breakfasts, 300 lunches, 300 dinners, 300 flights, 300 Uber rides etc etc all going to be spent in a different city because of crime.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 23, 2021, 04:23:28 PM
I'll leave at that for now whitey. Real life calls the next few days.

Have a good Christmas!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 23, 2021, 04:23:28 PM
I'll leave at that for now whitey. Real life calls the next few days.

Have a good Christmas!

Same to you...enjoy those kids they grow up very quickly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on December 23, 2021, 06:33:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 08:58:01 PM
That would be all very well if the "woke agenda" etc was the Dem party platform.

It's not.

If someone is for the GOP/Trump anti-democratic movement, they should just man up and admit it and spare us the bullshit excuses. The GOP are proudly and defiantly legislating and preaching this stuff.

And the poor craytur who is so offended by Joy Reid, where are they on, say, Tucker Carlson? He is way more influential than her and just did a special on Jan 6 that was so repugnant that a couple of arch conservative pundits left their gigs as Fox News pundits. And that's just one single example.

I'm way behind - I don't know how you boys have the time  :-\

On one channel you have Tucker Carlson drumming up vial about how the election was stolen and on the other you have Don Lemon justifying why people riot/loot because of how they feel on racial/criminal justice or police reform. Both are fanning the flames of hate at the other side and causing deeper divide.  Yet neither side talk about the gang shootings every weekend in the inner cities, how to fix the HS drop out rate in black communities, the widespread drug use across America. That would take a real news caster, which neither of these two clowns are.

Rittenhouse was an idiot and should have been locked up for manslaughter. He's a product of his society where as a 17 year old he thought it was OK to stroll into town with a gun and expect to get respect.

Saying a small minority of the Dems that are on the far left but all the GOP party is completely dedicated to the veneration of Trump is simply not true. Yes there is an element in the GOP party that are there to drum Trump up but a lot of them are not drumming Trump also. I do feel that someone in the party needs to come out as a clear alternative choice to DJT and a lot of them are biding their time so as not to get the "Trump backlash" with the mid-terms just around the corner.

On the defund the Police question, I don't believe Biden has every publicly supported this. However if you look at the largest cities in the US with Democratic Mayors a large percentage have defunded the police. I'm on the west coast and the increase in crime, homeless on the streets, smash and grab robberies etc has gone through the roof in cities that have defunded. Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, San Jose, LA etc have all gotten incredibly dangerous to bring a family. San Francisco Mayor, which is near me, is doing a complete U turn on the defund stance. I do find it strange that when a police officer kills a man, and it is a tragic, that protesters/rioters are on the streets for weeks yet when Travis Watts was killed last weekend or any one of the 700 odd victims shot in Chicago in 2021 there are no marches. Where have all the BLM marches/riots gone since Biden took power?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 23, 2021, 06:48:45 PM
QuoteSan Jose, LA etc have all gotten incredibly dangerous to bring a family.

San Jose? Really? I just moved away after 2 years there and never saw anything that I'd term as "incredibly dangerous".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 23, 2021, 07:12:55 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 23, 2021, 06:33:44 PM
I do find it strange that when a police officer kills a man, and it is a tragic, that protesters/rioters are on the streets for weeks yet when Travis Watts was killed last weekend or any one of the 700 odd victims shot in Chicago in 2021 there are no marches. Where have all the BLM marches/riots gone since Biden took power?

The difference is when a Travis Watts is killed there is a proper investigation and an attempt to arrest, try and convict the killers.

When cops kill someone they usually get let go with a pat on the back and a well done..

I do find it strange that an Irish person can't understand how the cops getting away with killing people has an effect on the community that bears the brunt of those killings. Did you ever pay any attention to the north?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on December 23, 2021, 07:34:25 PM
Quote from: dec on December 23, 2021, 07:12:55 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 23, 2021, 06:33:44 PM
I do find it strange that when a police officer kills a man, and it is a tragic, that protesters/rioters are on the streets for weeks yet when Travis Watts was killed last weekend or any one of the 700 odd victims shot in Chicago in 2021 there are no marches. Where have all the BLM marches/riots gone since Biden took power?

The difference is when a Travis Watts is killed there is a proper investigation and an attempt to arrest, try and convict the killers.

When cops kill someone they usually get let go with a pat on the back and a well done..

I do find it strange that an Irish person can't understand how the cops getting away with killing people has an effect on the community that bears the brunt of those killings. Did you ever pay any attention to the north?

So the riots after George Floyd was murdered last year was because there was no attempt to try/convict?
I don't believe anyone was arrested in the Watts case, but correct me if I'm wrong.
I have never seen any cop getting a pat on the back and a well done but I haven't followed all the cases.

With respect to me understanding the effects on the community, I didn't question this - I agree, there is an effect and people should march. Did I say different?
My point is over 700 murders in a city like Chicago this year has a far far bigger impact to the community but yet no one wants to talk about it, march about it or try to address. Yet, like is usually the case, someone try to twist an opinion into something its not to suit a political position while completely missing the elephant in the room and the lives of those murdered week in week out. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on December 23, 2021, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 23, 2021, 06:48:45 PM
QuoteSan Jose, LA etc have all gotten incredibly dangerous to bring a family.

San Jose? Really? I just moved away after 2 years there and never saw anything that I'd term as "incredibly dangerous".

The increase in the amount of homeless encampments around the city with folks openly taking drugs has skyrocketted in the last 2 years . My wife is an avid cyclist and there are routs she use to take that she won't now because she has been threatened. Its still a long way behind SF but far from the safe family city it was 5 years ago even if it is a boring city.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Lotto on December 23, 2021, 07:46:46 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/kim-potter-trial-outcome-daunte-wright-shooting/index.html

This will be interesting.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gawa316 on December 23, 2021, 07:53:00 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 23, 2021, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 23, 2021, 06:48:45 PM
QuoteSan Jose, LA etc have all gotten incredibly dangerous to bring a family.

San Jose? Really? I just moved away after 2 years there and never saw anything that I'd term as "incredibly dangerous".

The increase in the amount of homeless encampments around the city with folks openly taking drugs has skyrocketted in the last 2 years . My wife is an avid cyclist and there are routs she use to take that she won't now because she has been threatened. Its still a long way behind SF but far from the safe family city it was 5 years ago even if it is a boring city.

The 99 is wild for the amount of homeless have set up camp, especially around Merced, Modesto and Manteca. Brutal to be sleeping outside in this weather at the minute
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 08:10:48 PM
Quote from: dec on December 23, 2021, 07:12:55 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 23, 2021, 06:33:44 PM
I do find it strange that when a police officer kills a man, and it is a tragic, that protesters/rioters are on the streets for weeks yet when Travis Watts was killed last weekend or any one of the 700 odd victims shot in Chicago in 2021 there are no marches. Where have all the BLM marches/riots gone since Biden took power?

The difference is when a Travis Watts is killed there is a proper investigation and an attempt to arrest, try and convict the killers.

When cops kill someone they usually get let go with a pat on the back and a well done..

I do find it strange that an Irish person can't understand how the cops getting away with killing people has an effect on the community that bears the brunt of those killings. Did you ever pay any attention to the north?
what does looting Best Buy or target got to do with George Floyd .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: dec on December 23, 2021, 07:12:55 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 23, 2021, 06:33:44 PM
I do find it strange that when a police officer kills a man, and it is a tragic, that protesters/rioters are on the streets for weeks yet when Travis Watts was killed last weekend or any one of the 700 odd victims shot in Chicago in 2021 there are no marches. Where have all the BLM marches/riots gone since Biden took power?

The difference is when a Travis Watts is killed there is a proper investigation and an attempt to arrest, try and convict the killers.

When cops kill someone they usually get let go with a pat on the back and a well done..

I do find it strange that an Irish person can't understand how the cops getting away with killing people has an effect on the community that bears the brunt of those killings. Did you ever pay any attention to the north?

That's a completely bogus comparison

The number of black people killed by police is a fraction of one percent of the number of black people
Killed by other black people.

The cops are trying to police in essentially what are war zones.....more people killed in Chicago in the past 5 years than were murdered during the 30 year duration of the troubles (99% being black on black crimes)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 23, 2021, 09:24:49 PM
Why won't those black people just help themselves eh lads?

Their own worst enemy, aren't they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 23, 2021, 10:49:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 23, 2021, 09:24:49 PM
Why won't those black people just help themselves eh lads?

Their own worst enemy, aren't they?

Who said that?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 26, 2021, 11:42:34 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 23, 2021, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 23, 2021, 06:48:45 PM
QuoteSan Jose, LA etc have all gotten incredibly dangerous to bring a family.

San Jose? Really? I just moved away after 2 years there and never saw anything that I'd term as "incredibly dangerous".

The increase in the amount of homeless encampments around the city with folks openly taking drugs has skyrocketted in the last 2 years . My wife is an avid cyclist and there are routs she use to take that she won't now because she has been threatened. Its still a long way behind SF but far from the safe family city it was 5 years ago even if it is a boring city.

San Jose resident here. I live in Japantown with my wife and two small children. It's quite safe to walk around. The homeless camps are mostly found in out-of-the-way places like the Guadeloupe River Park and the idle land at the end of the airport runways. I see news reports of gang activity but it mostly seems to come from the northeastern edge of the city.

"Boring" city? There's plenty going on if you get out of the house.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on January 26, 2022, 05:29:18 PM
US about to get their first Female Black SCOTUS . . .

Has McConnell any options to block this one again??!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2022, 05:33:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2022, 05:29:18 PM
US about to get their first Female Black SCOTUS . . .

Has McConnell any options to block this one again??!

No, I think the filibuster is gone for judges.

And I seriously doubt if EVERY Republican will vote against the nominee anyway.

Especially with their 6-3 majority safe for the next ten years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 26, 2022, 05:37:59 PM
Will every Democrat back Biden on this though?

If I were McConnell, and I had it that all Democrats were voting en bloc, I would actually think of encouraging one or two moderate Reps to back it, so they can say they are engaged in the bipartisan process, and aren't just obstructionist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2022, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 26, 2022, 05:37:59 PM
Will every Democrat back Biden on this though?

If I were McConnell, and I had it that all Democrats were voting en bloc, I would actually think of encouraging one or two moderate Reps to back it, so they can say they are engaged in the bipartisan process, and aren't just obstructionist.

I can't see any Democrats not voting for a liberal justice.

There just isn't that much at stake where it would affect their chances of getting re-elected, even for the likes of Manchin, Tester, Sinema etc.

Of the current GOP senators, Susan Collins and Lindsey Graham voted for Kagan and Sotomayor.

Graham is firmly on the insane train these days, so he's probably a No.

You might get Collins again. Maybe Romney at a stretch if the nominee is a moderate.

It will be tight. Could end up another VP-decider.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2022, 06:25:28 PM
I can't tell if the person was joking, but I have seen a post on Twitter saying Joe should nominate Kamala  for the SC and appoint Hillary VP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 26, 2022, 06:43:20 PM
Merritt Garland for SC

Kamala for AG

Hillary or Michelle Obama for VP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2022, 07:58:19 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 26, 2022, 05:37:59 PM
Will every Democrat back Biden on this though?

If I were McConnell, and I had it that all Democrats were voting en bloc, I would actually think of encouraging one or two moderate Reps to back it, so they can say they are engaged in the bipartisan process, and aren't just obstructionist.

Depends what you call a "Democrat." Sinema and Manchin aren't exactly acting like Dems, they're more like rethuglican infiltrators at this point. To paraphrase Joe, they are "stupid sons of bitches."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 28, 2022, 07:07:51 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 26, 2022, 05:37:59 PM
Will every Democrat back Biden on this though?

If I were McConnell, and I had it that all Democrats were voting en bloc, I would actually think of encouraging one or two moderate Reps to back it, so they can say they are engaged in the bipartisan process, and aren't just obstructionist.
the only African American on the court right now joe Biden slandered , personally attacked and voted against .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2022, 07:27:13 PM
Why wouldn't he vote against an extremely conservative judge?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2022, 08:12:04 PM
Slander? ;D

The same Joe Biden who gets dogs abuse for supposedly treating Anita Hill like shit and, as Judicial Committee chairman, not taking her allegations against Thomas seriously?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 28, 2022, 09:29:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2022, 08:12:04 PM
Slander? ;D

The same Joe Biden who gets dogs abuse for supposedly treating Anita Hill like shit and, as Judicial Committee chairman, not taking her allegations against Thomas seriously?
I know he's a pos
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2022, 09:32:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 28, 2022, 09:29:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2022, 08:12:04 PM
Slander? ;D

The same Joe Biden who gets dogs abuse for supposedly treating Anita Hill like shit and, as Judicial Committee chairman, not taking her allegations against Thomas seriously?
I know he's a pos

Most politicians are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 08:05:24 PM
January 6th deadly riots "legitimate political discourse."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 04, 2022, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 08:05:24 PM
January 6th deadly riots "legitimate political discourse."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html)
deadly riots ffs a walkthrough would be more like it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 04, 2022, 10:04:58 PM
Avenatti gone down for stealing 300k off stormy daniels  been a bad week for cnn .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 04, 2022, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 08:05:24 PM
January 6th deadly riots "legitimate political discourse."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html)
deadly riots ffs a walkthrough would be more like it

Riot. People were killed. Ergo deadly riot.

Go back and watch some of the footage from the day. People were terrified,  shots were fired.

But you know all this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 04, 2022, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 04, 2022, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 08:05:24 PM
January 6th deadly riots "legitimate political discourse."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html)
deadly riots ffs a walkthrough would be more like it

Riot. People were killed. Ergo deadly riot.

Go back and watch some of the footage from the day. People were terrified,  shots were fired.

But you know all this.

Of course he knows it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 05, 2022, 12:28:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2022, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 04, 2022, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 08:05:24 PM
January 6th deadly riots "legitimate political discourse."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html)
deadly riots ffs a walkthrough would be more like it

Riot. People were killed. Ergo deadly riot.

Go back and watch some of the footage from the day. People were terrified,  shots were fired.

But you know all this.

Of course he knows it.
start arresting and charging rioters and looters from blm protests and let's talk then
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 05, 2022, 12:56:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 05, 2022, 12:28:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2022, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 04, 2022, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 08:05:24 PM
January 6th deadly riots "legitimate political discourse."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html)
deadly riots ffs a walkthrough would be more like it

Riot. People were killed. Ergo deadly riot.

Go back and watch some of the footage from the day. People were terrified,  shots were fired.

But you know all this.

Of course he knows it.
start arresting and charging rioters and looters from blm protests and let's talk then

As has been pointed out multiple times before when you've brought up this bullshit "point", those who broke the law WERE arrested and prosecuted.

But you know that, so carry on. You're fooling no one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 05, 2022, 01:04:37 AM
If Jan 6th had been BLM people, certain posters would be singing a very different tune.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on February 05, 2022, 02:06:46 AM
QMac   ;)

Quote from: J70 on February 04, 2022, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 04, 2022, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 04, 2022, 08:05:24 PM
January 6th deadly riots "legitimate political discourse."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html)
deadly riots ffs a walkthrough would be more like it

Riot. People were killed. Ergo deadly riot.

Go back and watch some of the footage from the day. People were terrified,  shots were fired.

But you know all this.

Of course he knows it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 05, 2022, 02:47:48 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 05, 2022, 01:04:37 AM
If Jan 6th had been BLM people, certain posters would be singing a very different tune.
I know,  they wouldn't be getting 4 years in jail for trespassing .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 05, 2022, 03:30:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 05, 2022, 02:47:48 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 05, 2022, 01:04:37 AM
If Jan 6th had been BLM people, certain posters would be singing a very different tune.
I know,  they wouldn't be getting 4 years in jail for trespassing .

Like I said, you're fooling no one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 05, 2022, 03:08:22 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/dc-mayor-muriel-bowser-thought-she-needed-just-few-hundred-national-guard-unarmed-1661320%3famp=1

Mayor of DC is not entirely blameless in all of this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 10, 2022, 03:24:59 AM
the what police?

https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1491525010997096449
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2022, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 10, 2022, 03:24:59 AM
the what police?

https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1491525010997096449

They'll be protesting their local hipster cafes before the end of the week.

Sure they're probably all fronts for child trafficking and satanic rituals anyway.

You think she would have learned her lesson from the last time she had to apologize for moronic Nazi comparisons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 10, 2022, 01:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2022, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 10, 2022, 03:24:59 AM
the what police?

https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1491525010997096449

They'll be protesting their local hipster cafes before the end of the week.

Sure they're probably all fronts for child trafficking and satanic rituals anyway.

You think she would have learned her lesson from the last time she had to apologize for moronic Nazi comparisons.
if dopey joe said something like that it would be a gaffe ?
Btw will joe be sending out free n95 masks to the hood with the free crack pipes  ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2022, 02:41:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 10, 2022, 01:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2022, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 10, 2022, 03:24:59 AM
the what police?

https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1491525010997096449

They'll be protesting their local hipster cafes before the end of the week.

Sure they're probably all fronts for child trafficking and satanic rituals anyway.

You think she would have learned her lesson from the last time she had to apologize for moronic Nazi comparisons.
if dopey joe said something like that it would be a gaffe ?
Btw will joe be sending out free n95 masks to the hood with the free crack pipes  ?

The point is that she is out there spreading hysterical, false culture war bullshit (it's pretty much all she does as she is not fit to have a committee assignment) and she is so ignorant that she didn't even realize she was making herself look like a fool.

Biden may butcher the English language now and again, but at least he is a serious politician and not just out there trying to make fame and fortune on the Trump/Fox white grievance/victimhood train.

And yeah, its easy to point and sneer about "the hood" when it comes to controversial issues like how to address and manage drug addiction and the infectious disease problems that go hand in hand with it. Would you be so dismissive if it was all about poor white people and dealing with the opioid epidemic? Of course you wouldn't, and neither would the right wing media cesspool whose "headlines" you can never wait to regale us all with.

How are your media sources covering Trump hoarding and shredding records and dumping papers down the toilets BTW? Given that government records were such a YUGE deal during the 2016 election and all... 

If it was the other way around you'd be on here with post after post.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 10, 2022, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2022, 02:41:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 10, 2022, 01:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2022, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 10, 2022, 03:24:59 AM
the what police?

https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1491525010997096449

They'll be protesting their local hipster cafes before the end of the week.

Sure they're probably all fronts for child trafficking and satanic rituals anyway.

You think she would have learned her lesson from the last time she had to apologize for moronic Nazi comparisons.
if dopey joe said something like that it would be a gaffe ?
Btw will joe be sending out free n95 masks to the hood with the free crack pipes  ?

The point is that she is out there spreading hysterical, false culture war bullshit (it's pretty much all she does as she is not fit to have a committee assignment) and she is so ignorant that she didn't even realize she was making herself look like a fool.

Biden may butcher the English language now and again, but at least he is a serious politician and not just out there trying to make fame and fortune on the Trump/Fox white grievance/victimhood train.

And yeah, its easy to point and sneer about "the hood" when it comes to controversial issues like how to address and manage drug addiction and the infectious disease problems that go hand in hand with it. Would you be so dismissive if it was all about poor white people and dealing with the opioid epidemic? Of course you wouldn't, and neither would the right wing media cesspool whose "headlines" you can never wait to regale us all with.

How are your media sources covering Trump hoarding and shredding records and dumping papers down the toilets BTW? Given that government records were such a YUGE deal during the 2016 election and all... 

If it was the other way around you'd be on here with post after post.
joe promised free college but went with free crack pipes instead .
Sums up this joke of an administration.
Hopefully trump goes away and desantis runs in 2024 .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2022, 05:10:52 PM
Good man Gmac.

Every journey begins with a single step!  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 10, 2022, 08:35:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2022, 05:10:52 PM
Good man Gmac.

Every journey begins with a single step!  ;)
Regardless, a Gmac journey would just end up with him wandering in circles, a habit of a lifetime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 10, 2022, 10:07:07 PM
I like Joe as a person, but he couldn't have fvcked things up more if he tried

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 10, 2022, 10:27:04 PM
There aren't any "crack pipes" in the kits. Its lip balm, alcohol swabs etc. It's something similar to the needle exchange program here though not anywhere near as explicit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 10, 2022, 10:42:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 10, 2022, 10:27:04 PM
There aren't any "crack pipes" in the kits. Its lip balm, alcohol swabs etc. It's something similar to the needle exchange program here though not anywhere near as explicit.
when it came out they changed it , yesterday
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2022, 12:52:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 10, 2022, 10:27:04 PM
There aren't any "crack pipes" in the kits. Its lip balm, alcohol swabs etc. It's something similar to the needle exchange program here though not anywhere near as explicit.

My understanding is that there is/was discretionary funding that "could" be used to provide crack pipes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 11, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 12:52:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 10, 2022, 10:27:04 PM
There aren't any "crack pipes" in the kits. Its lip balm, alcohol swabs etc. It's something similar to the needle exchange program here though not anywhere near as explicit.

My understanding is that there is/was discretionary funding that "could" be used to provide crack pipes
Again, more bulls... 
A post of yours that begins with "my understanding", falls flat at the first phrase.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2022, 06:33:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 11, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 12:52:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 10, 2022, 10:27:04 PM
There aren't any "crack pipes" in the kits. Its lip balm, alcohol swabs etc. It's something similar to the needle exchange program here though not anywhere near as explicit.

My understanding is that there is/was discretionary funding that "could" be used to provide crack pipes
Again, more bulls... 
A post of yours that begins with "my understanding", falls flat at the first phrase.

So "smoking kits" is kinda like "defund the police" or "if you like your doctor....you can keep your doctor.....period!"

You actually believe what these people are telling you.....now that's scary
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2022, 07:03:40 PM
Not satire

QuoteMarjorie Taylor Greene says Nancy Pelosi leads 'gazpacho police,' causing collective spit take

By Adela Suliman
Yesterday at 7:30 a.m. EST|Updated yesterday at 8:33 a.m. EST

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) has long been the center of controversy for comparing Democrats and their policies to Nazi Germany — but it's her latest attempt, in which she appeared to confuse its secret state police force with a cold soup from Spain, that has stirred up Washington.

Greene appeared on One America News on Tuesday and accused House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) of using Capitol police as "political pawns" and "sending them into our offices" — referring to a complaint from her colleague Rep. Troy E. Nehls (R-Tex.). The Capitol Police has rejected Nehls's claim that a security check of his open office was an illegal investigation, calling it protocol when an unattended office has a door left open.

Greene referenced "Pelosi's gazpacho police spying on members of Congress, spying on the legislative work that we do, spying on our staff and spying on American citizens that want to come talk to their representatives."

Pelosi has yet to comment publicly on the apparent mix-up of "gazpacho" and "Gestapo" — but she told reporters during Wednesday's weekly news conference that "I have no power over the Capitol Police. Does anybody not know that?"

Greene's word soup quickly went viral online, sparking memes and reactions shared by politicians and other prominent figures.

Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) wrote that "Twitter is undefeated" while sharing a picture of Pelosi that was altered to appear as if she is holding a wooden spoon in front of a bowl of gazpacho.

The cold tomato-based soup, thought to have originated in the Andalusia area of Spain, is widely enjoyed around the world.

Spanish-born celebrity chef José Andrés jokingly took credit for creating the "gazpacho police" to "make sure that no one will add Tabasco or jalalpeño or strange things to my beloved soup! Please don't blame anybody else but me ... stop by for a glass anytime. Don't forget your mask and vaccination card!" he tweeted.

Comedian Noel Casler tweeted: "Sure the Gazpacho Police are bad but the elite Vichyssoise inspired pureed terror."

Greene herself acknowledged the roasting, tweeting: "No soup for those who illegally spy on Members of Congress, but they will be thrown in the goulash."

Many others stressed that despite the humor in some of the responses — the underlying comparison was inappropriate.

Holly McCormack, a Democrat running against Greene for Congress, wrote: "First, Nazi comparisons are unbecoming of a Congresswoman. Second, I am not surprised Marge does not know the difference between gazpacho and Gestapo."

"To be clear even though Marjorie Taylor Greene said gazpacho, what she was trying to say was absolutely atrocious and warrants her immediate expulsion," tweeted Scott Dworkin, chief of the Democratic Coalition, a super PAC.

Weeks after Holocaust Museum visit, Rep. Greene makes new Nazi-era comparison in opposing vaccination push

Congressional leaders in both parties condemned Greene in the spring for comparing coronavirus restrictions in the U.S. Capitol to what Jewish people suffered during the Holocaust. In the summer, weeks after she visited the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and apologized for comparing mask requirements to the Nazis forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges — and calling gas chambers "exactly the type of abuse Nancy Pelosi is talking about" — Greene made headlines again for using another Nazi analogy in opposing the Biden administration's coronavirus vaccination push.


Greene has continued to attack pandemic policies, refused to wear a mask on the House floor and shared false information about the virus. She has incurred thousands of dollars in fines for violating the House policy on face coverings.

The congresswoman has also been repeatedly criticized for spreading misinformation about the pandemic to her thousands of social media followers. Last month, Facebook suspended Greene for 24 hours, a day after Twitter suspended her personal account for repeatedly violating the company's policy. At the time, she argued that the penalties were problematic because she is an elected official and represents more than 700,000 "US tax paying citizens."

U.S. Capitol Police rejects GOP congressman's claim that check of his open office is illegal investigation

The latest Greene incident was sparked after Nehls claimed in a Twitter thread on Tuesday that "Capitol Police entered my office without my knowledge and photographed confidential legislative products" in Novemberand that they took photographs of a whiteboard. He later told Fox News that he was being "targeted" and accused Pelosi of "weaponizing" the Capitol Police to silence him.

Capitol Police Chief Tom Manger responded in a statement on Tuesday that an officer had conducted a security check of an office after a door was left "wide open."

"The United States Capitol Police is sworn to protect Members of Congress. If a Member's office is left open and unsecured, without anyone inside the office, USCP officers are directed to document that and secure the office to ensure nobody can wander in and steal or do anything else nefarious," Manger said.

The Monday after the agent stepped into Nehls's office, Manger added, Capitol Police personnel followed up with the lawmaker's staff about the issue and determined that no further action or investigation was needed.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jnrz3ZSy/597-E4975-FFB8-4148-9-EB5-F56-B45-DF7013.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/J4ZtLr3z/4-A1-DD6-DA-5-ADE-45-E6-A0-EA-DED3-ACF3-ADE6.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zBH8F70G/85183-C6-B-365-C-4-CA9-8-E9-C-F00-CB11-A13-C7.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y0wKfHvd/C769911-C-F1-DA-4-E9-F-8-DD2-65130985-D715.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0NHBZqBp/D39933-B8-4-FA9-40-FC-9117-578-DFFF4139-B.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2022, 07:04:39 PM
Fun fact: Just about all the funny memes going around about AOC contain made-up quotes that she never said. Just about all the memes going around about MTG are about things she actually did say.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 11, 2022, 07:07:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 06:33:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 11, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 12:52:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 10, 2022, 10:27:04 PM
There aren't any "crack pipes" in the kits. Its lip balm, alcohol swabs etc. It's something similar to the needle exchange program here though not anywhere near as explicit.

My understanding is that there is/was discretionary funding that "could" be used to provide crack pipes
Again, more bulls... 
A post of yours that begins with "my understanding", falls flat at the first phrase.

So "smoking kits" is kinda like "defund the police" or "if you like your doctor....you can keep your doctor.....period!"

You actually believe what these people are telling you.....now that's scary
hopefully they get crushed in November and that they have a change of strategy moving forward, joe is not in charge he just gets wheeled out now and again to butcher a speech or sign something.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2022, 07:09:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 11, 2022, 07:07:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 06:33:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 11, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 12:52:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 10, 2022, 10:27:04 PM
There aren't any "crack pipes" in the kits. Its lip balm, alcohol swabs etc. It's something similar to the needle exchange program here though not anywhere near as explicit.

My understanding is that there is/was discretionary funding that "could" be used to provide crack pipes
Again, more bulls... 
A post of yours that begins with "my understanding", falls flat at the first phrase.

So "smoking kits" is kinda like "defund the police" or "if you like your doctor....you can keep your doctor.....period!"

You actually believe what these people are telling you.....now that's scary
hopefully they get crushed in November and that they have a change of strategy moving forward, joe is not in charge he just gets wheeled out now and again to butcher a speech or sign something.

Joe has gotten.....and listened to......very bad advice



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2022, 07:43:41 PM
So if the Dems need a change of strategy (and I absolutely agree there is much room for improvement, beginning with certain elements of the party coming to terms with the razor-thin majority), where does that leave the GOP?

I'm being very serious.

The GOP is not currently fit to govern on a national level.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 11, 2022, 08:18:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2022, 07:43:41 PM
So if the Dems need a change of strategy (and I absolutely agree there is much room for improvement, beginning with certain elements of the party coming to terms with the razor-thin majority), where does that leave the GOP?

I'm being very serious.

The GOP is not currently fit to govern on a national level.

But they are still likely to take the House and the Senate in the mid term elections.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2022, 08:31:03 PM
Quote from: dec on February 11, 2022, 08:18:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2022, 07:43:41 PM
So if the Dems need a change of strategy (and I absolutely agree there is much room for improvement, beginning with certain elements of the party coming to terms with the razor-thin majority), where does that leave the GOP?

I'm being very serious.

The GOP is not currently fit to govern on a national level.

But they are still likely to take the House and the Senate in the mid term elections.

Yes.

God help us all.

At least Biden will be there to veto their nonsense for two years.

And hopefully the Jan 6 investigations and so on are all completed before the cowardly snail that is Kevin McCarthy becomes Speaker and begins to resume His Master's Bidding and makes the likes of Marjorie Tayler Greene Chairwoman of the Justice Committee or whatever.

I've some faith at least in McConnell being a normal, within the rules, cynical politician (IMO he should go down as one of the greatest - as in effective, not good for the people or country - Majority Leaders in modern times). But the House GOP are f**king conspiratorial lunatics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2022, 09:12:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2022, 07:43:41 PM
So if the Dems need a change of strategy (and I absolutely agree there is much room for improvement, beginning with certain elements of the party coming to terms with the razor-thin majority), where does that leave the GOP?

I'm being very serious.

The GOP is not currently fit to govern on a national level.

Both parties are a disgrace.

Do you think the Democrats are fit to govern on a national level-sweet J3sus, if the past 12 months is anything to go by I shudder at the thought
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2022, 09:55:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 09:12:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2022, 07:43:41 PM
So if the Dems need a change of strategy (and I absolutely agree there is much room for improvement, beginning with certain elements of the party coming to terms with the razor-thin majority), where does that leave the GOP?

I'm being very serious.

The GOP is not currently fit to govern on a national level.

Both parties are a disgrace.

Do you think the Democrats are fit to govern on a national level-sweet J3sus, if the past 12 months is anything to go by I shudder at the thought

Don't agree, sorry.

I dislike plenty about what the Dems have done, but at least basic democracy and real facts underpin their outlook and actions.

If and when the GOP find some integrity and cease to exist solely to empower Trump and his ego and this idea that white people are under siege and get back to economics and actual real world problems, then they'll be fit to govern.

I will still disagree with much of their platform on various issues, but at least it will be on honest policy outlooks on real facts and problems, not the torrents of bullshit and blatant lies that currently forms the basis for just about everything they come out with.

The Dems are wrong on things in the normal scale of right/wrong. The GOP live in an alternate reality.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2022, 10:21:07 PM
They deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2022/02/11/anthony-brown-carjacking-teen-murder-michael-brown-electronic-monitoring/

All of these Soros funded DA's are going to cost them big time

(And that's  not a dog whistle, and it's not anti Semitic-he is funding many of their campaigns)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2022, 10:21:22 PM
Insightful letter in today's San Jose Mercury News:

QuoteRepublicans deal in outrage, not policy

The GOP has become the "Get Outraged Party."

Because the Republican Party lacks any platform, they keep their adherents in tow by keeping them in a constant state of rage. Every week, the right conjures up a non issue that it can exaggerate and make shockingly abhorrent and then broadcast its faux outrage to their rapt audience. This week's drama was Democrats "giving out free crack pipes." Last week it was President Biden guaranteeing a black female Supreme Court candidate; before that it was critical race theory; and before that, it was mask mandates, etc.

I'm amazed that those millions on the right continuously fall for this juvenile ploy that allows conservative news outlets to ignore, for example, the RNC's warped Jan. 6 declaration, President Trump's shredding of official documents and Biden's record-breaking economy. The information gap in this country is staggering, and the GOP's "shock jock" approach to politics is a major reason why.

Bob Parker
San Jose

This week it's crack pipes. Last week it was the prospect of a black woman on the Supreme Court. Before that it was about a non-existent trend of CRT being taught in high schools. What nonsense is it going to be next week?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 12, 2022, 12:28:32 AM
toilet clogging
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 12, 2022, 02:03:27 PM
So Biden is going to seize $3.5 billion off the Afghani people and give it to 9/11 families. Surely this will only radicalise half the country?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 12, 2022, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 12, 2022, 02:03:27 PM
So Biden is going to seize $3.5 billion off the Afghani people and give it to 9/11 families. Surely this will only radicalise half the country?

Ehhhh......I think he should be asking the Saudis for the $3.5B
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:42:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 10:21:07 PM
They deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2022/02/11/anthony-brown-carjacking-teen-murder-michael-brown-electronic-monitoring/

All of these Soros funded DA's are going to cost them big time

(And that's  not a dog whistle, and it's not anti Semitic-he is funding many of their campaigns)

While there are obviously serious questions to be asked about why a kid repeatedly committing violent crimes despite being in the electronic monitoring program should not be remanded, the program itself has been around for decades all over the country, including Chicago. I'm assuming your objection is to the former and not the latter?

And there is already pushback from other Dems about some of these types of policies for going too far (it was partly why Adams was elected mayor in NYC). Its hardly part of the national Democratic Party platform. And misguided though they may be in certain respects, they are also trying to address serious problems with the justice systems in these cities. Here in NYC, there are lads sitting in the hellhole that is Rikers for months and even years on extremely petty charges because they can't afford bail.

On Soros, why mention him then?

An aside on the NYC mayoral election - apparently the GOP candidate, Curtis Sliwa, is starting a new radio show with none other than Carlos Danger himself, Anthony Weiner! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:45:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 12, 2022, 02:03:27 PM
So Biden is going to seize $3.5 billion off the Afghani people and give it to 9/11 families. Surely this will only radicalise half the country?

I've only read a little bit about this, but I think its a little more complicated than you're making out there.

Long standing court cases by some 9/11 families, the Taliban, the Biden admin wanting to free up part of the money to address current needs in Afghanistan and so on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2022, 02:49:35 PM
QuoteOn Soros, why mention him then?

Who are these wingnuts going to use as the boogeyman when he dies?

Gates?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:42:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 10:21:07 PM
They deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2022/02/11/anthony-brown-carjacking-teen-murder-michael-brown-electronic-monitoring/

All of these Soros funded DA's are going to cost them big time

(And that's  not a dog whistle, and it's not anti Semitic-he is funding many of their campaigns)

While there are obviously serious questions to be asked about why a kid repeatedly committing violent crimes despite being in the electronic monitoring program should not be remanded, the program itself has been around for decades all over the country, including Chicago. I'm assuming your objection is to the former and not the latter?

And there is already pushback from other Dems about some of these types of policies for going too far (it was partly why Adams was elected mayor in NYC). Its hardly part of the national Democratic Party platform. And misguided though they may be in certain respects, they are also trying to address serious problems with the justice systems in these cities. Here in NYC, there are lads sitting in the hellhole that is Rikers for months and even years on extremely petty charges because they can't afford bail.

On Soros, why mention him then?

An aside on the NYC mayoral election - apparently the GOP candidate, Curtis Sliwa, is starting a new radio show with none other than Carlos Danger himself, Anthony Weiner! ;D

Why wouldn't I mention him?

Very few of these clowns would have gotten elected without him bankrolling them

Gave $2M to Kim Fox out in Chicago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 03:28:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:42:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 10:21:07 PM
They deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2022/02/11/anthony-brown-carjacking-teen-murder-michael-brown-electronic-monitoring/

All of these Soros funded DA's are going to cost them big time

(And that's  not a dog whistle, and it's not anti Semitic-he is funding many of their campaigns)

While there are obviously serious questions to be asked about why a kid repeatedly committing violent crimes despite being in the electronic monitoring program should not be remanded, the program itself has been around for decades all over the country, including Chicago. I'm assuming your objection is to the former and not the latter?

And there is already pushback from other Dems about some of these types of policies for going too far (it was partly why Adams was elected mayor in NYC). Its hardly part of the national Democratic Party platform. And misguided though they may be in certain respects, they are also trying to address serious problems with the justice systems in these cities. Here in NYC, there are lads sitting in the hellhole that is Rikers for months and even years on extremely petty charges because they can't afford bail.

On Soros, why mention him then?

An aside on the NYC mayoral election - apparently the GOP candidate, Curtis Sliwa, is starting a new radio show with none other than Carlos Danger himself, Anthony Weiner! ;D

Why wouldn't I mention him?

Very few of these clowns would have gotten elected without him bankrolling them

He must be spreading around a lot of cash then.

And I guess you're in favour of mentioning the likes of the Mercers who bankroll so much of the GOP, both in terms of candidates, social media and "grassroots"?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 03:28:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:42:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 10:21:07 PM
They deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2022/02/11/anthony-brown-carjacking-teen-murder-michael-brown-electronic-monitoring/

All of these Soros funded DA's are going to cost them big time

(And that's  not a dog whistle, and it's not anti Semitic-he is funding many of their campaigns)

While there are obviously serious questions to be asked about why a kid repeatedly committing violent crimes despite being in the electronic monitoring program should not be remanded, the program itself has been around for decades all over the country, including Chicago. I'm assuming your objection is to the former and not the latter?

And there is already pushback from other Dems about some of these types of policies for going too far (it was partly why Adams was elected mayor in NYC). Its hardly part of the national Democratic Party platform. And misguided though they may be in certain respects, they are also trying to address serious problems with the justice systems in these cities. Here in NYC, there are lads sitting in the hellhole that is Rikers for months and even years on extremely petty charges because they can't afford bail.

On Soros, why mention him then?

An aside on the NYC mayoral election - apparently the GOP candidate, Curtis Sliwa, is starting a new radio show with none other than Carlos Danger himself, Anthony Weiner! ;D

Why wouldn't I mention him?

Very few of these clowns would have gotten elected without him bankrolling them

He must be spreading around a lot of cash then.

And I guess you're in favour of mentioning the likes of the Mercers who bankroll so much of the GOP, both in terms of candidates, social media and "grassroots"?


Bodes well for the Republicans if even you are fobbing this off as a non issue


Don't even know who the Mercer's are, but I don't think they are funding DAs who are letting criminals run riot.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10271987/amp/How-billionaire-George-Soros-bankrolled-DAs-Democrat-cities-HIGHEST-crime-rates.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/george-soros-criminal-justice-reform-227519

Apologies in advance to the Daily Mail link. More respected sources such as CNN, MSNBC and The NY Times don't seem to be giving much coverage to this topic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2022, 04:10:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 03:56:13 PMDon't even know who the Mercer's are

A Monday morning chuckle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 04:29:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 03:28:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:42:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2022, 10:21:07 PM
They deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2022/02/11/anthony-brown-carjacking-teen-murder-michael-brown-electronic-monitoring/

All of these Soros funded DA's are going to cost them big time

(And that's  not a dog whistle, and it's not anti Semitic-he is funding many of their campaigns)

While there are obviously serious questions to be asked about why a kid repeatedly committing violent crimes despite being in the electronic monitoring program should not be remanded, the program itself has been around for decades all over the country, including Chicago. I'm assuming your objection is to the former and not the latter?

And there is already pushback from other Dems about some of these types of policies for going too far (it was partly why Adams was elected mayor in NYC). Its hardly part of the national Democratic Party platform. And misguided though they may be in certain respects, they are also trying to address serious problems with the justice systems in these cities. Here in NYC, there are lads sitting in the hellhole that is Rikers for months and even years on extremely petty charges because they can't afford bail.

On Soros, why mention him then?

An aside on the NYC mayoral election - apparently the GOP candidate, Curtis Sliwa, is starting a new radio show with none other than Carlos Danger himself, Anthony Weiner! ;D

Why wouldn't I mention him?

Very few of these clowns would have gotten elected without him bankrolling them

He must be spreading around a lot of cash then.

And I guess you're in favour of mentioning the likes of the Mercers who bankroll so much of the GOP, both in terms of candidates, social media and "grassroots"?


Bodes well for the Republicans if even you are fobbing this off as a non issue


Don't even know who the Mercer's are, but I don't think they are funding DAs who are letting criminals run riot.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10271987/amp/How-billionaire-George-Soros-bankrolled-DAs-Democrat-cities-HIGHEST-crime-rates.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/george-soros-criminal-justice-reform-227519

Apologies in advance to the Daily Mail link. More respected sources such as CNN, MSNBC and The NY Times don't seem to be giving much coverage to this topic

I'm not fobbing it off as a non-issue.

If it were up to me, every dollar donated would have to be declared, and there would be strict limits in place to prevent politicians being bought and paid for. Just like if it were up to me it would be either every voting district would be drawn up by independent organizations and not politicians out to protect their own party's interests, or we'd get some kind of proportional representation system.

But that's not the system in the US, is it, especially since Citizens United? Corporations are people too, remember!

So outside of the odd politician who tries to fund raise on small individual donations, I go with the blanket assumption that there is big wealth and special interests behind it all.

Let's face it, if these trucker protests were a left wing thing, it would be Soros-hysteria morning, noon and night.

And on the Mercers specifically, them and Bannon and Roger Stone go back a long way, including the Ground Zero Mosque nonsense which, along with Palin and Obama's birth cert, basically mainstreamed the paranoia and bigotry that made Trump's domination of the GOP possible.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 04:41:24 PM
Soros Specifically helping elect DAs with soft on crime agendas could (and probably will) cost the Democrats big time in 2022!

Agree or disagree?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2022, 04:45:16 PM
Knows the name of every Soros funded (and how much they've been funded) DA in the country

But doesn't have a clue on one of the biggest funders to the GOP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 04:54:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 04:41:24 PM
Soros Specifically helping elect DAs with soft on crime agendas could (and probably will) cost the Democrats big time in 2022!

Agree or disagree?

It probably won't help.

Not necessarily because Soros funding anything in itself is a bad thing. Or the policies themselves are necessarily bad. Or if they're bad that they're widespread or very representative.

But, the right thrives and scares/motivates its base using trigger words like Soros and "soft on crime" and so on and on (does the right still use "thug" as a euphemism for "scary black man"?).

There won't be any nuanced discussion of things like overcrowding and lack of safety in jails and why these DAs want to change things.

You'd swear you couldn't walk the streets of New York or use the subway with the way they go on.

As with anything, its very easy to demagogue and use scare tactics to motivate voters, especially when the on-the-ground stuff in question is happening in those huge, far away liberal cities.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 04:54:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 04:41:24 PM
Soros Specifically helping elect DAs with soft on crime agendas could (and probably will) cost the Democrats big time in 2022!

Agree or disagree?

It probably won't help.

Not necessarily because Soros funding anything in itself is a bad thing. Or the policies themselves are necessarily bad. Or if they're bad that they're widespread or very representative.

But, the right thrives and scares/motivates its base using trigger words like Soros and "soft on crime" and so on and on (does the right still use "thug" as a euphemism for "scary black man"?).

There won't be any nuanced discussion of things like overcrowding and lack of safety in jails and why these DAs want to change things.

You'd swear you couldn't walk the streets of New York or use the subway with the way they go on.

As with anything, its very easy to demagogue and use scare tactics to motivate voters, especially when the on-the-ground stuff in question is happening in those huge, far away liberal cities.


LOL

Nothing to see here......move along please


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-24/mta-chief-vows-to-blunt-subway-crime-after-8-murders-in-2021

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/assaults-up-28-on-nyc-subways-new-chief-of-transit-promises-quick-action/3511556/%3famp

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 05:20:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 04:54:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 04:41:24 PM
Soros Specifically helping elect DAs with soft on crime agendas could (and probably will) cost the Democrats big time in 2022!

Agree or disagree?

It probably won't help.

Not necessarily because Soros funding anything in itself is a bad thing. Or the policies themselves are necessarily bad. Or if they're bad that they're widespread or very representative.

But, the right thrives and scares/motivates its base using trigger words like Soros and "soft on crime" and so on and on (does the right still use "thug" as a euphemism for "scary black man"?).

There won't be any nuanced discussion of things like overcrowding and lack of safety in jails and why these DAs want to change things.

You'd swear you couldn't walk the streets of New York or use the subway with the way they go on.

As with anything, its very easy to demagogue and use scare tactics to motivate voters, especially when the on-the-ground stuff in question is happening in those huge, far away liberal cities.


LOL

Nothing to see here......move along please


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-24/mta-chief-vows-to-blunt-subway-crime-after-8-murders-in-2021

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/assaults-up-28-on-nyc-subways-new-chief-of-transit-promises-quick-action/3511556/%3famp

And there we go...

Eight murders in 2021.

Each absolutely terrible and tragic, yes.

However, let's look at how many people ride the subway each day. Its currently 2.5-3 million on a weekday, a little less on the weekends.

Which comes to just under a billion people per year.

A bit less than the population of India.

I've been taking the subway to work each day since early December. Will do for a few more weeks until it warms up enough to resume cycling. There are usually a couple of homeless people on each train, usually just sleeping. You have to maintain some situational awareness, just like you always have on NY subways or walking the streets, because you never know when some crazy person might wander along. Exactly like you would walking the streets of Dublin or London or any big city.

However, this idea out there you're taking your life into your hands at the moment by just entering the subway system is hysterical nonsense with zero support in the data.

Out of interest, I wonder how many people die for every billion car journeys?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 05:41:25 PM
I think you are missing the point

Most of the accused murderers (that I read about) are out on low or no bail.

In prior years they would be in jail, but you applaud the fact these people are walking the streets to commit further crimes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 05:55:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 05:41:25 PM
I think you are missing the point

Most of the accused murderers (that I read about) are out on low or no bail.

In prior years they would be in jail, but you applaud the fact these people are walking the streets to commit further crimes

1. You did your LOL response to my statement that "You'd swear you couldn't walk the streets of New York or use the subway with the way they go on." And the way they go on is pure and utter bullshit. A small number of anecdotes (which those murders, tragic as they were on a human level, are in terms of data) does not change that one bit.

2. My turn to "LOL". I didn't "applaud" anything. I didn't actually give an opinion on what those DAs are doing. Your question was about whether Soros and "soft on crime" would be effective for the GOP this autumn. Pointing out WHY these DAs are pursuing these policies is not the same as endorsing them. I expect that the current experiment in these several cities will NOT spread in their current comprehensive form. Which doesn't mean that the Trumpian "lock the f**kers up" is a solution either.

As with the sanctuary cities discussions we've had in the past (also an easy issue for the unserious sections of the GOP to demagogue and make political hay with), there is easy no black/white, right/wrong answer. Progressives MAY take it too far, but that doesn't make them entirely wrong, either in diagnosing the existing problem or in their solution to it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 06:35:07 PM
I'm sure the families of the people who got pushed in front of moving trains take great comfort from the fact that their murders are statistically insignificant
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 06:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 06:35:07 PM
I'm sure the families of the people who got pushed in front of moving trains take great comfort from the fact that their murders are statistically insignificant

If that's where we going in this...

They're no more statistically insignificant than the children of Sandy Hook or hundreds of other mass shootings.
No more statistically insignificant than the people who die of cancer or other diseases from asbestos or tobacco smoke or lead or benzene or umpteen other environmental contaminants.
No more statistically insignificant than the people who die on the job due to the lack of adherence to and enforcement of safety and health regulations.
No more statistically insignificant than the people who die on the roads or the streets due to lack of sensible or enforcement of driving regulations.
No more statistically insignificant that people who die due to lack of affordable and accessible health care.

I can go on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 07:28:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 06:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 06:35:07 PM
I'm sure the families of the people who got pushed in front of moving trains take great comfort from the fact that their murders are statistically insignificant

If that's where we going in this...

They're no more statistically insignificant than the children of Sandy Hook or hundreds of other mass shootings.
No more statistically insignificant than the people who die of cancer or other diseases from asbestos or tobacco smoke or lead or benzene or umpteen other environmental contaminants.
No more statistically insignificant than the people who die on the job due to the lack of adherence to and enforcement of safety and health regulations.
No more statistically insignificant than the people who die on the roads or the streets due to lack of sensible or enforcement of driving regulations.
No more statistically insignificant that people who die due to lack of affordable and accessible health care.

I can go on.

You are right

George Soros has not pumped $20M + into getting soft on crime DAs elected

Soft on crime DAs are not freeing criminals that previously would have been incarcerated

The freed criminals are not assaulting, murdering and carjacking people

This is not going to cost the  Democrats one vote come November

It's just all Republican talking points



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2022, 07:43:34 PM
Conservatives suddenly become concerned about crime when there's a Democratic president, even though the Trump administration was itself one big criminal enterprise:

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9d1f776ed186b15ff12d41a4fd51b44c)

Note how that's not even up to date, Trump was breaking records for criminal activity before his single dumpster fire of a term was up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 07:52:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2022, 07:43:34 PM
Conservatives suddenly become concerned about crime when there's a Democratic president, even though the Trump administration was itself one big criminal enterprise:

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9d1f776ed186b15ff12d41a4fd51b44c)

Note how that's not even up to date, Trump was breaking records for criminal activity before his single dumpster fire of a term was up.

Eh....no

Many/Most of these DAs were elected before Biden even got elected-it was an issue when Trump was in office and it's an issue now.

But believe what you want-it's a free country
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 08:37:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 07:28:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 06:56:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 06:35:07 PM
I'm sure the families of the people who got pushed in front of moving trains take great comfort from the fact that their murders are statistically insignificant

If that's where we going in this...

They're no more statistically insignificant than the children of Sandy Hook or hundreds of other mass shootings.
No more statistically insignificant than the people who die of cancer or other diseases from asbestos or tobacco smoke or lead or benzene or umpteen other environmental contaminants.
No more statistically insignificant than the people who die on the job due to the lack of adherence to and enforcement of safety and health regulations.
No more statistically insignificant than the people who die on the roads or the streets due to lack of sensible or enforcement of driving regulations.
No more statistically insignificant that people who die due to lack of affordable and accessible health care.

I can go on.

You are right

George Soros has not pumped $20M + into getting soft on crime DAs elected

Soft on crime DAs are not freeing criminals that previously would have been incarcerated

The freed criminals are not assaulting, murdering and carjacking people

This is not going to cost the  Democrats one vote come November

It's just all Republican talking points

What's the matter with you?

I've already said I agree the issue will potentially cost the Dems in November.

My point with the quoted response was that there are all kinds of issues where death and injury/illness rates are affected by policy.

Just because the GOP are unparalleled in their ability to demagogue and exploit the ones that suit them doesn't mean their own favoured policies don't also come with very serious costs that affect many, many real people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:21:10 PM
Right....but you're downplaying it as some type of ginned up right wing conspiracy

This is an issue that's bleeding out into the suburbs

FFS-the Democrats themselves primaried Larry Kasner

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/08/homicide-surge-progressives-district-attorneys-479966
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:21:10 PM
Right....but you're downplaying it as some type of ginned up right wing conspiracy

This is an issue that's bleeding out into the suburbs

FFS-the Democrats themselves primaried Larry Kasner

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/08/homicide-surge-progressives-district-attorneys-479966

It's ginned up as in the GOP will attempt to paint ALL Dems as part of this movement, while also not acknowledging the real problems driving it.

And I've already said, today and previously, that I and many other NYC Dems elected Eric Adams partly in response to this type of stuff being pushed too far.

As with Bernie Sanders, it's why the effort to paint all Dems this way is bullshit.

Remember, we discussing this because you think the Dems are as bad, nationally, as the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:21:10 PM
Right....but you're downplaying it as some type of ginned up right wing conspiracy

This is an issue that's bleeding out into the suburbs

FFS-the Democrats themselves primaried Larry Kasner

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/08/homicide-surge-progressives-district-attorneys-479966

It's ginned up as in the GOP will attempt to paint ALL Dems as part of this movement, while also not acknowledging the real problems driving it.

And I've already said, today and previously, that I and many other NYC Dems elected Eric Adams partly in response to this type of stuff being pushed too far.

As with Bernie Sanders, it's why the effort to paint all Dems this way is bullshit.

Remember, we discussing this because you think the Dems are as bad, nationally, as the GOP.


Well I know it's not ALL Democrats

FFS I linked in several articles that showed ONE individual was  hijacking all these primaries.....and then you all jumped down my neck
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on February 15, 2022, 11:34:34 AM
A prophet in his own land.....
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2022, 12:37:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:21:10 PM
Right....but you're downplaying it as some type of ginned up right wing conspiracy

This is an issue that's bleeding out into the suburbs

FFS-the Democrats themselves primaried Larry Kasner

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/08/homicide-surge-progressives-district-attorneys-479966

It's ginned up as in the GOP will attempt to paint ALL Dems as part of this movement, while also not acknowledging the real problems driving it.

And I've already said, today and previously, that I and many other NYC Dems elected Eric Adams partly in response to this type of stuff being pushed too far.

As with Bernie Sanders, it's why the effort to paint all Dems this way is bullshit.

Remember, we discussing this because you think the Dems are as bad, nationally, as the GOP.


Well I know it's not ALL Democrats

FFS I linked in several articles that showed ONE individual was  hijacking all these primaries.....and then you all jumped down my neck

You said the Dems "deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone" and we went from there.

But whatever... moving on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2022, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2022, 12:37:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:21:10 PM
Right....but you're downplaying it as some type of ginned up right wing conspiracy

This is an issue that's bleeding out into the suburbs

FFS-the Democrats themselves primaried Larry Kasner

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/08/homicide-surge-progressives-district-attorneys-479966

It's ginned up as in the GOP will attempt to paint ALL Dems as part of this movement, while also not acknowledging the real problems driving it.

And I've already said, today and previously, that I and many other NYC Dems elected Eric Adams partly in response to this type of stuff being pushed too far.

As with Bernie Sanders, it's why the effort to paint all Dems this way is bullshit.

Remember, we discussing this because you think the Dems are as bad, nationally, as the GOP.


Well I know it's not ALL Democrats

FFS I linked in several articles that showed ONE individual was  hijacking all these primaries.....and then you all jumped down my neck

You said the Dems "deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone" and we went from there.

But whatever... moving on.

They own it

The same way (unfortunately) Republicans own MTG and co

The difference is MTG is just a clown whereas these DAs are costing lives
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2022, 01:23:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2022, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2022, 12:37:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:21:10 PM
Right....but you're downplaying it as some type of ginned up right wing conspiracy

This is an issue that's bleeding out into the suburbs

FFS-the Democrats themselves primaried Larry Kasner

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/08/homicide-surge-progressives-district-attorneys-479966

It's ginned up as in the GOP will attempt to paint ALL Dems as part of this movement, while also not acknowledging the real problems driving it.

And I've already said, today and previously, that I and many other NYC Dems elected Eric Adams partly in response to this type of stuff being pushed too far.

As with Bernie Sanders, it's why the effort to paint all Dems this way is bullshit.

Remember, we discussing this because you think the Dems are as bad, nationally, as the GOP.


Well I know it's not ALL Democrats

FFS I linked in several articles that showed ONE individual was  hijacking all these primaries.....and then you all jumped down my neck

You said the Dems "deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone" and we went from there.

But whatever... moving on.

They own it

The same way (unfortunately) Republicans own MJT and co

The difference is MJT is just a clown whereas these DAs are costing lives

As I pointed out yesterday, GOP policies cost plenty of lives, but given the unity and homogeneity of the right, they don't cost them anything.

And MTG and the rest are only the more squalid examples of the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the GOP in the era of Trump. They're absolutely representative of where the overall party stands. The party which last week called the Capitol riot legitimate political "discourse" and expelled hardline conservatives Kinzinger and Cheney purely because they had the integrity and decency to disavow Trump's bullshit.

These DAs are NOT representative of where the overall Democratic Party stands.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 15, 2022, 02:18:03 PM
Hillary and co caught spying on trump tower and white house .
Surely they will lock her up this time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2022, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2022, 01:23:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2022, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2022, 12:37:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 14, 2022, 09:21:10 PM
Right....but you're downplaying it as some type of ginned up right wing conspiracy

This is an issue that's bleeding out into the suburbs

FFS-the Democrats themselves primaried Larry Kasner

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/08/homicide-surge-progressives-district-attorneys-479966

It's ginned up as in the GOP will attempt to paint ALL Dems as part of this movement, while also not acknowledging the real problems driving it.

And I've already said, today and previously, that I and many other NYC Dems elected Eric Adams partly in response to this type of stuff being pushed too far.

As with Bernie Sanders, it's why the effort to paint all Dems this way is bullshit.

Remember, we discussing this because you think the Dems are as bad, nationally, as the GOP.


Well I know it's not ALL Democrats

FFS I linked in several articles that showed ONE individual was  hijacking all these primaries.....and then you all jumped down my neck

You said the Dems "deserve to get pummeled in law and order alone" and we went from there.

But whatever... moving on.

They own it

The same way (unfortunately) Republicans own MJT and co

The difference is MJT is just a clown whereas these DAs are costing lives

As I pointed out yesterday, GOP policies cost plenty of lives, but given the unity and homogeneity of the right, they don't cost them anything.

And MTG and the rest are only the more squalid examples of the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the GOP in the era of Trump. They're absolutely representative of where the overall party stands. The party which last week called the Capitol riot legitimate political "discourse" and expelled hardline conservatives Kinzinger and Cheney purely because they had the integrity and decency to disavow Trump's bullshit.

These DAs are NOT representative of where the overall Democratic Party stands.

So if they're not representative of the Democratic Party why won't you criticize them then

Why do you get your knickers in a bunch when facts are pointed out about who funded their election campaigns

You have twisted yourself into a pretzel trying to justify whats going on and minimizing the impact of their policies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 15, 2022, 06:00:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2022, 04:41:00 PM

So if they're not representative of the Democratic Party why won't you criticize them then

Why do you get your knickers in a bunch when facts are pointed out about who funded their election campaigns

You have twisted yourself into a pretzel trying to justify whats going on and minimizing the impact of their policies

Who's getting their knickers in a twist?

I simply asked why you felt the need to make the Soros comment? I don't think anyone who reads this thread is that ignorant or naïve that they wouldn't recognize how the right uses Soros as an inflammatory bogeyman. If you didn't want to address it then you could have just ignored the question.

I've already said that I voted against these progressive-type candidates the past. That goes for Bernie in the past two presidential elections. It goes for the candidates in last year's mayoral election in NYC when I voted for a moderate former police captain. My politics are fairly centrist, like most Irish people.

As for minimizing the effects of their policies, simply pointing out the bleeding obvious fact that the right overhypes everything (effectively so as they will in this year's election) and that there is in fact no crime wave in the NYC subways or streets is hardly controversial. That doesn't mean that I think that it is ok for repeat offenders charged with violent crimes to be released while they await their day in court, and if any of these DAs is doing that, then I absolutely condemn them.

The Democratic Party is basically a coalition of various different interests, united in opposition to the GOP, which is a very uniform party which has coalesced around reactionary cultural positions. As with any coalition, at times you're going to have different interests pushing the envelope in ways that other parts of the party disagree with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 15, 2022, 10:10:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2022, 06:00:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 15, 2022, 04:41:00 PM

So if they're not representative of the Democratic Party why won't you criticize them then

Why do you get your knickers in a bunch when facts are pointed out about who funded their election campaigns

You have twisted yourself into a pretzel trying to justify whats going on and minimizing the impact of their policies

Who's getting their knickers in a twist?

I simply asked why you felt the need to make the Soros comment? I don't think anyone who reads this thread is that ignorant or naïve that they wouldn't recognize how the right uses Soros as an inflammatory bogeyman. If you didn't want to address it then you could have just ignored the question.

I've already said that I voted against these progressive-type candidates the past. That goes for Bernie in the past two presidential elections. It goes for the candidates in last year's mayoral election in NYC when I voted for a moderate former police captain. My politics are fairly centrist, like most Irish people.

As for minimizing the effects of their policies, simply pointing out the bleeding obvious fact that the right overhypes everything (effectively so as they will in this year's election) and that there is in fact no crime wave in the NYC subways or streets is hardly controversial. That doesn't mean that I think that it is ok for repeat offenders charged with violent crimes to be released while they await their day in court, and if any of these DAs is doing that, then I absolutely condemn them.

The Democratic Party is basically a coalition of various different interests, united in opposition to the GOP, which is a very uniform party which has coalesced around reactionary cultural positions. As with any coalition, at times you're going to have different interests pushing the envelope in ways that other parts of the party disagree with.

Many of the cities with the biggest increases in murder and general mayhem have prosecutors that have been funded directly and heavily by George Soros.

Most of these individuals wouldn't have gotten within an asses roar of getting elected had he not funded their campaigns

I would argue that people like MTG is just a clown and apart from just generally annoying the heck out of a lot of people, she really has little impact on people's lives

These prosecutors on the other hand are costing people their lives and their livelihoods and generally destroying quality of live for millions of people who live in their cities

That's not a dispersion on anyone-it's a simple fact

If you think that okay.....that's on you


https://news.wttw.com/tags/carjacking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2022, 11:25:43 AM
If Soros didn't fund them, they'd raise it some other way. Might take a little longer, but they're meeting a demand in their electorate given the backlash against policing and the justice system. When people see that it's not the answer, they'll look for another alternative.

MTG is most certainly a clown, but she's hardly harmless. Unless you're of the white, conservative Christian persuasion who want a return to the 1950s I guess. The country is becoming more bitterly divided by the day, and immoral, inflammatory trolls like her who preach hate and exclusion and outright lies are a big reason for it. If you think that's all a-ok, and people don't get damaged and hurt when politicians foster division and hatred and falsehood, then I guess that's on you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 16, 2022, 02:43:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2022, 11:25:43 AM
If Soros didn't fund them, they'd raise it some other way. Might take a little longer, but they're meeting a demand in their electorate given the backlash against policing and the justice system. When people see that it's not the answer, they'll look for another alternative.

MTG is most certainly a clown, but she's hardly harmless. Unless you're of the white, conservative Christian persuasion who want a return to the 1950s I guess. The country is becoming more bitterly divided by the day, and immoral, inflammatory trolls like her who preach hate and exclusion and outright lies are a big reason for it. If you think that's all a-ok, and people don't get damaged and hurt when politicians foster division and hatred and falsehood, then I guess that's on you.
mjt got 83k votes in 2020 to get elected a democrat presidential candidate called half the country deplorable and she got 65m but mjt is more dangerous ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 16, 2022, 02:47:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 16, 2022, 02:43:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2022, 11:25:43 AM
If Soros didn't fund them, they'd raise it some other way. Might take a little longer, but they're meeting a demand in their electorate given the backlash against policing and the justice system. When people see that it's not the answer, they'll look for another alternative.

MTG is most certainly a clown, but she's hardly harmless. Unless you're of the white, conservative Christian persuasion who want a return to the 1950s I guess. The country is becoming more bitterly divided by the day, and immoral, inflammatory trolls like her who preach hate and exclusion and outright lies are a big reason for it. If you think that's all a-ok, and people don't get damaged and hurt when politicians foster division and hatred and falsehood, then I guess that's on you.
mjt got 83k votes in 2020 to get elected a democrat presidential candidate called half the country deplorable and she got 65m but mjt is more dangerous ?

The media needs a boogey man with which they can then associate with all Republicans

She represents one district yet CNN and co seem to have ordained her as the spokesperson for the entire conservative movement
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2022, 03:02:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 16, 2022, 02:43:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2022, 11:25:43 AM
If Soros didn't fund them, they'd raise it some other way. Might take a little longer, but they're meeting a demand in their electorate given the backlash against policing and the justice system. When people see that it's not the answer, they'll look for another alternative.

MTG is most certainly a clown, but she's hardly harmless. Unless you're of the white, conservative Christian persuasion who want a return to the 1950s I guess. The country is becoming more bitterly divided by the day, and immoral, inflammatory trolls like her who preach hate and exclusion and outright lies are a big reason for it. If you think that's all a-ok, and people don't get damaged and hurt when politicians foster division and hatred and falsehood, then I guess that's on you.
mjt got 83k votes in 2020 to get elected a democrat presidential candidate called half the country deplorable and she got 65m but mjt is more dangerous ?

If MTG was a lone traveler (a bit like Bernie or Ron Paul were for years), you might have a point.

She's not. She's a symptom of a much wider malaise. She's just one of the louder ones. At one point, in the before times, the GOP used to sideline people like her (as recently as Steve King). Not anymore. Now they expel Adam Kingziner and Liz Cheney, and not because they disagree on policy and world view, but because they have the temerity and dignity to point out the lies, corruption and corrosiveness of Trump and his minions like MTG.

And while Hillary's statement was politically dumb, damaging and self-defeating, and very probably an exaggeration in terms of numbers (which she acknowledged), there was also truth in it:

"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?" Clinton said. "The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up."

There's nothing wrong with calling out how Trump exploits those attitudes. And nothing to fear from condemning them.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 17, 2022, 04:05:07 PM
"The media needs a boogey man with which they can then associate with all Republicans"

The irony of yer man posting this after crying Soros Soros Soros this past week
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 17, 2022, 06:42:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 17, 2022, 04:05:07 PM
"The media needs a boogey man with which they can then associate with all Republicans"

The irony of yer man posting this after crying Soros Soros Soros this past week

What did I state about Soros that was factually incorrect
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2022, 11:06:22 PM
The GOP is in the pocket of big business, right? Not when they disagree with the MAGA crowd, it seems.

The airline industry is asking to be allowed to create a shared no-fly list for unruly passengers who assault flight crews and endanger the plane, but the conservative Rethuglicans are pushing back. Seems like it's not okay to endanger a plane in the name of global Jihad, but okay to endanger the plane if you're a deplorable.

QuoteGOP pushes back on no-fly list for violent passengers
Nearly 500 unruly passenger incidents have been reported in the first six weeks of 2022

By Gregory Wallace and Pete Muntean | CNN

A group of Republican senators is pushing back against an effort supported by some of the airline industry to create a government blacklist of violent and disruptive passengers.

"Creating a federal 'no-fly' list for unruly passengers who are skeptical of this mandate would seemingly equate them to terrorists who seek to actively take the lives of Americans and perpetrate attacks on the homeland," the senators wrote in a letter to Attorney General Merrick Garland dated Monday.

Nearly 500 unruly passenger incidents have been reported in the first six weeks of 2022, Federal Aviation Administration data show, for a total of more than 6,400 since the start of 2021. About two-thirds of the reports this year allege violations of the federal mask mandate. The FAA said Wednesday it has referred a total of 80 incidents to the Justice Department to consider criminal prosecution.

The spike in incidents has airlines calling for a government-coordinated "no-fly list" for passengers who create in-flight disturbances. Proponents say it would be separate from the existing government-run list that is part of the FBI's Terrorist Screening Database.

Airlines may ban an unruly passenger from their own flights, but competition rules mean that information is not shared with other carriers. CNN broke news of the industry's ask to the government in September, and Delta Air Lines renewed the request this month in a letter to the Justice Department.

The Senate group says they "strongly condemn" the violence, but urge the Justice Department to reject the request.

"The creation of this list by DOJ would result in a severe restriction on the ability of citizens to fully exercise their constitutional right to engage in interstate transportation," they wrote, and said the matter should be decided by Congress.

The letter was signed by Republican Sens. Cynthia Lummis of Wyoming, Mike Lee of Utah, James Lankford of Oklahoma, Marco Rubio of Florida, Kevin Cramer of North Dakota, Ted Cruz of Texas, John Hoeven of North Dakota and Rick Scott of Florida.

A major flight attendant group responded sharply to the letter. Sara Nelson, the president of the Association of Flight Attendants, called it "irresponsible and political brinkmanship that puts our economic security at risk right along with our lives."

"We've been punched, kicked, spit on, and sexually assaulted," Nelson wrote. "We urge the FAA, TSA, and DOJ to come together to implement a plan with due process to keep dangerous flyers on the ground."

CNN has reached out to the Justice Department for comment.

Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg suggested to CNN's Dana Bash last fall that a federal no-fly list for violent airplane passengers "should be on the table," and he told CNN last week that federal authorities were still "looking at" such policy recommendations.

But, he acknowledged, "there are enormous implications in terms of civil liberties, in terms of how you administer something like that. I mean, even when it was over terrorism, it was not a simple thing to set up."

Frustration over mask mandates

There have been multiple in-flight disruptions in recent days. Two passengers were charged this week with interfering with flight crew members after attempting to open aircraft exits in flight. In one of those incidents, four passengers helped American Airlines crewmembers subdue a passenger armed with plastic utensils and a wine bottle who was pulling on a door handle.

Buttigieg declined in a recent CNN interview to say whether the mask mandate will be allowed to expire in mid-March or whether it might be extended or lifted earlier.

"When we have the guidance saying that is the right thing to do, I will be as relieved as any traveling American that we can move on to the next phase," he said.

The FAA's announcement that it has referred 80 incidents since the start of last year to the Justice Department marks about a doubling of referrals since President Joe Biden called for an increased role for the Justice Department in October. In November, the FAA said it had referred 37 cases for prosecution.

Not all cases can be referred for prosecution and many of the cases referred to the FBI for criminal review involve physical assault on crew or passengers, and sexual assault or harassment cases on a passenger or crew, a FAA spokesperson said.

The FAA called the issue a priority and said the agency, along with the FBI, are "continuing to work together so unruly passengers face criminal prosecution when warranted." The Transportation Security Administration is also revoking expedited screening privileges through the PreCheck program in some cases, the agencies said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 18, 2022, 01:54:21 PM
Sure the poor crayturs were provoked into trying to open doors mid-flight and to assault airline staff, including women. No reason why they should be barred from future flights.

Reminds me of that county judge in the movie Mississippi Burning, in terms of logic:

But I want you to know that the court understands... that the crimes you have committed have been, to some extent at least... brought about by... outside influences.
               
Outsiders have come into Jessup County... and they've been people of low morality... and unhygienic.
                 
And their presence here has provoked a lot of people.
                 
So the court understands... without condoning them, mind you... that the crimes to which you men have pled guilty... were, to some extent at least, provoked by these outside influences.
                 
So, with all this, I'm gonna make your punishment light.
               
I'm gonna sentence you each to five years' imprisonment.
       
But I'm gonna suspend these sentences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on February 23, 2022, 09:39:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

Well of course it could have been Trump who thinks Putin's move is "genius"

How would that have gone??!! Trump would have done nothing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

So what SHOULD he be doing with respect to the Ukraine Gmac?

What moves would you find satisfactory?

I'm assuming you mean a more severe response, and not the "I like the taste of Putin's dick" nonsense Trump put out?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

So what SHOULD he be doing with respect to the Ukraine Gmac?

What moves would you find satisfactory?

I'm assuming you mean a more severe response, and not the "I like the taste of Putin's dick" nonsense Trump put out?
china to take Taiwan next
Russia on the move in Europe
Afghanistan now facing famine
Iran will have nuclear weapons shortly
He's a disaster at home and world wide , weak and feeble .
Joe is more worried about Ukrainian border than his own southern border.
2014/2022 both have what in common?
The year was 22
the sky was full of lead
Putin was heading to Kiev
and joe was heading to bed !        @7pm
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 23, 2022, 07:15:13 PM
Can someone contact that lad's family?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on February 23, 2022, 09:02:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

So what SHOULD he be doing with respect to the Ukraine Gmac?

What moves would you find satisfactory?

I'm assuming you mean a more severe response, and not the "I like the taste of Putin's dick" nonsense Trump put out?
china to take Taiwan next
Russia on the move in Europe
Afghanistan now facing famine
Iran will have nuclear weapons shortly
He's a disaster at home and world wide , weak and feeble .
Joe is more worried about Ukrainian border than his own southern border.
2014/2022 both have what in common?
The year was 22
the sky was full of lead
Putin was heading to Kiev
and joe was heading to bed !        @7pm
What should be the USA response to the Ukraine situation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on February 23, 2022, 09:33:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

So what SHOULD he be doing with respect to the Ukraine Gmac?

What moves would you find satisfactory?

I'm assuming you mean a more severe response, and not the "I like the taste of Putin's dick" nonsense Trump put out?
china to take Taiwan next
Russia on the move in Europe
Afghanistan now facing famine
Iran will have nuclear weapons shortly
He's a disaster at home and world wide , weak and feeble .
Joe is more worried about Ukrainian border than his own southern border.
2014/2022 both have what in common?
The year was 22
the sky was full of lead
Putin was heading to Kiev
and joe was heading to bed !        @7pm

Putin was emboldened by owning Trump and now owning Johnson. He indirectly pushed hard for brexit to divide the powerful EU. This was a long term strategy and Trumps impotence gave him all the impetus he needed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on February 23, 2022, 09:40:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2022, 09:33:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

So what SHOULD he be doing with respect to the Ukraine Gmac?

What moves would you find satisfactory?

I'm assuming you mean a more severe response, and not the "I like the taste of Putin's dick" nonsense Trump put out?
china to take Taiwan next
Russia on the move in Europe
Afghanistan now facing famine
Iran will have nuclear weapons shortly
He's a disaster at home and world wide , weak and feeble .
Joe is more worried about Ukrainian border than his own southern border.
2014/2022 both have what in common?
The year was 22
the sky was full of lead
Putin was heading to Kiev
and joe was heading to bed !        @7pm

Putin was emboldened by owning Trump and now owning Johnson. He indirectly pushed hard for brexit to divide the powerful EU. This was a long term strategy and Trumps impotence gave him all the impetus he needed.

This incident showed how Putin completely owned trump.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54039710

All the USA security services knew putin and russia to be responsible yet trump refused to condemn. We all knew at that stage that Putin could do what he liked without any kind of criticism from trump. It's great to see a serious president in charge now who takes proper sanctions against an autocratic dictator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on February 23, 2022, 09:50:47 PM
Ha ha, "a serious president" - you crack me up!
By the way, if Navalny was in the Kremlin, you'd be crying about him, too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 10:02:20 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2022, 09:40:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2022, 09:33:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

So what SHOULD he be doing with respect to the Ukraine Gmac?

What moves would you find satisfactory?

I'm assuming you mean a more severe response, and not the "I like the taste of Putin's dick" nonsense Trump put out?
china to take Taiwan next
Russia on the move in Europe
Afghanistan now facing famine
Iran will have nuclear weapons shortly
He's a disaster at home and world wide , weak and feeble .
Joe is more worried about Ukrainian border than his own southern border.
2014/2022 both have what in common?
The year was 22
the sky was full of lead
Putin was heading to Kiev
and joe was heading to bed !        @7pm

Putin was emboldened by owning Trump and now owning Johnson. He indirectly pushed hard for brexit to divide the powerful EU. This was a long term strategy and Trumps impotence gave him all the impetus he needed.

This incident showed how Putin completely owned trump.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54039710

All the USA security services knew putin and russia to be responsible yet trump refused to condemn. We all knew at that stage that Putin could do what he liked without any kind of criticism from trump. It's great to see a serious president in charge now who takes proper sanctions against an autocratic dictator.
while still importing anywhere from 12/25 million barrels of oil from Russia per month and closing down pipelines and exploration in his own country, it's not joe so much as the clown show around him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2022, 10:16:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

So what SHOULD he be doing with respect to the Ukraine Gmac?

What moves would you find satisfactory?

I'm assuming you mean a more severe response, and not the "I like the taste of Putin's dick" nonsense Trump put out?
china to take Taiwan next
Russia on the move in Europe
Afghanistan now facing famine
Iran will have nuclear weapons shortly
He's a disaster at home and world wide , weak and feeble .
Joe is more worried about Ukrainian border than his own southern border.
2014/2022 both have what in common?
The year was 22
the sky was full of lead
Putin was heading to Kiev
and joe was heading to bed !        @7pm

So tell us Gmac.

If your hero Trump was still in charge (or any Republican for that matter), what would be different about any of those issues you've listed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 10:16:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

So what SHOULD he be doing with respect to the Ukraine Gmac?

What moves would you find satisfactory?

I'm assuming you mean a more severe response, and not the "I like the taste of Putin's dick" nonsense Trump put out?
china to take Taiwan next
Russia on the move in Europe
Afghanistan now facing famine
Iran will have nuclear weapons shortly
He's a disaster at home and world wide , weak and feeble .
Joe is more worried about Ukrainian border than his own southern border.
2014/2022 both have what in common?
The year was 22
the sky was full of lead
Putin was heading to Kiev
and joe was heading to bed !        @7pm

So tell us Gmac.

If your hero Trump was still in charge (or any Republican for that matter), what would be different about any of those issues you've listed?
trump was happy to let what happened outside of America happen and wasn't going to intervene unless it had consequences or there were threats to  the US , he didn't want to get US soldiers killed in anymore foreign conflicts which he pretty much managed to do , Joe announced the US is back on the world stage and the results are there to be viewed .Trump didn't want to pay nato to protect Europe from Putin while they got 40% gas and 27% oil from Russia , only mugs would want to do that .
Has admiral vindman gone back to Ukraine to defend the homeland he so passionately talked about I wonder 🤔
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2022, 11:07:33 PM
Putin would never have tried this if Trump was in power

Obama has a lot of the blame here too-remember the quip about the "80's calling and asking about getting their foreign policy back" when Romney tried to warn him about Putin

And as for all of the bellyaching about Trump holding up aid to the Ukrainians, the Obama administration flat out REFUSED to provide them with the same aid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:03:45 AM
LOL whitey.

Why the hell would Putin not try this with Trump in power?

The same Trump who never missed ANY opportunity to suck up to him and defer to him, even at the expense of publicly selling out his own appointees and intelligence agencies?

And with Trump and the right wing media cheering him on from the sidelines as we speak.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:05:33 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 10:16:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2022, 02:48:35 AM
Joe blowing by my expectations of him being a disaster and heading in the direction of the worst ever .

So what SHOULD he be doing with respect to the Ukraine Gmac?

What moves would you find satisfactory?

I'm assuming you mean a more severe response, and not the "I like the taste of Putin's dick" nonsense Trump put out?
china to take Taiwan next
Russia on the move in Europe
Afghanistan now facing famine
Iran will have nuclear weapons shortly
He's a disaster at home and world wide , weak and feeble .
Joe is more worried about Ukrainian border than his own southern border.
2014/2022 both have what in common?
The year was 22
the sky was full of lead
Putin was heading to Kiev
and joe was heading to bed !        @7pm

So tell us Gmac.

If your hero Trump was still in charge (or any Republican for that matter), what would be different about any of those issues you've listed?
trump was happy to let what happened outside of America happen and wasn't going to intervene unless it had consequences or there were threats to  the US , he didn't want to get US soldiers killed in anymore foreign conflicts which he pretty much managed to do , Joe announced the US is back on the world stage and the results are there to be viewed .Trump didn't want to pay nato to protect Europe from Putin while they got 40% gas and 27% oil from Russia , only mugs would want to do that .
Has admiral vindman gone back to Ukraine to defend the homeland he so passionately talked about I wonder 🤔

Nothing you've said there has any relevance whatsoever to what is happening or how Trump would have prevented it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2022, 12:08:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:03:45 AM
LOL whitey.

Why the hell would Putin not try this with Trump in power?

The same Trump who never missed ANY opportunity to suck up to him and defer to him, even at the expense of publicly selling out his own appointees and intelligence agencies?

And with Trump and the right wing media cheering him on from the sidelines as we speak.

So why didn't he then?  He had 4 years to do it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 24, 2022, 12:16:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2022, 12:08:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:03:45 AM
LOL whitey.

Why the hell would Putin not try this with Trump in power?

The same Trump who never missed ANY opportunity to suck up to him and defer to him, even at the expense of publicly selling out his own appointees and intelligence agencies?

And with Trump and the right wing media cheering him on from the sidelines as we speak.

So why didn't he then?  He had 4 years to do it
exactly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:19:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2022, 12:08:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:03:45 AM
LOL whitey.

Why the hell would Putin not try this with Trump in power?

The same Trump who never missed ANY opportunity to suck up to him and defer to him, even at the expense of publicly selling out his own appointees and intelligence agencies?

And with Trump and the right wing media cheering him on from the sidelines as we speak.

So why didn't he then?  He had 4 years to do it

Seriously?

That's your QED? ;D

I've no idea. Maybe he needed time to get to that point internally or in the Ukraine? Maybe he was watching how the wider geopolitical situation evolved and saw the US right wing and Belarus and so on moving in a direction which made it easier. Maybe it has little to do with who is in power in Washington.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2022, 12:36:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:19:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2022, 12:08:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:03:45 AM
LOL whitey.

Why the hell would Putin not try this with Trump in power?

The same Trump who never missed ANY opportunity to suck up to him and defer to him, even at the expense of publicly selling out his own appointees and intelligence agencies?

And with Trump and the right wing media cheering him on from the sidelines as we speak.

So why didn't he then?  He had 4 years to do it

Seriously?

That's your QED? ;D

I've no idea. Maybe he needed time to get to that point internally or in the Ukraine? Maybe he was watching how the wider geopolitical situation evolved and saw the US right wing and Belarus and so on moving in a direction which made it easier. Maybe it has little to do with who is in power in Washington.

He knew Obama and Biden were a soft touch....that's why he waited for Joe to get in.

Trump supplied Ukraine with heavy duty weapons Obama refused to provide them with

Trump would have played hard ball-FFS he faced down that maniac in North Korea and never backed down and was accused of risking a Nuclear war-threatened him with complete annihalation

Trump would also have forced the Germans to step up

Trump was a pr1ck, but his foreign policy was flawless IMHO
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:46:58 AM
Historians will be debating this for decades, but anyway, whitey has the inside scoop....

Flawless foreign policy?? ;D

If Trump were in, Ukraine would be safe?

What hardball would Trump be playing against the "genius" he repeatedly was publicly cowed by?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2022, 01:12:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:46:58 AM
Historians will be debating this for decades, but anyway, whitey has the inside scoop....

Flawless foreign policy?? ;D

If Trump were in, Ukraine would be safe?

What hardball would Trump be playing against the "genius" he repeatedly was publicly cowed by?

It was safe.....until Joe got in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2022, 01:23:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2022, 01:12:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:46:58 AM
Historians will be debating this for decades, but anyway, whitey has the inside scoop....

Flawless foreign policy?? ;D

If Trump were in, Ukraine would be safe?

What hardball would Trump be playing against the "genius" he repeatedly was publicly cowed by?

It was safe.....until Joe got in.

QED ;D

You should tell your fellow travelers that this is the case. Most of them seem to be very eager to write off the Ukraine as not a US problem and Putin as a noble genius. Some of them are even letting loose on Biden for his "aggression ".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 24, 2022, 01:50:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 01:23:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2022, 01:12:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:46:58 AM
Historians will be debating this for decades, but anyway, whitey has the inside scoop....

Flawless foreign policy?? ;D

If Trump were in, Ukraine would be safe?

What hardball would Trump be playing against the "genius" he repeatedly was publicly cowed by?

It was safe.....until Joe got in.

QED ;D

You should tell your fellow travelers that this is the case. Most of them seem to be very eager to write off the Ukraine as not a US problem and Putin as a noble genius. Some of them are even letting loose on Biden for his "aggression ".
I'm sure Kamala can talk Putin round
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 24, 2022, 03:53:45 AM
Joe will speak tomorrow can't even rouse himself to talk tonight , 81 million voted for this ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on February 24, 2022, 04:36:00 AM
 ???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on February 24, 2022, 10:48:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 24, 2022, 03:53:45 AM
Joe will speak tomorrow can't even rouse himself to talk tonight , 81 million voted for this ?

Those 81 million people had no sensible alternative.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: An Watcher on February 24, 2022, 10:55:54 AM
Can't help but think of the Palestinians at this time.  The world are outraged and taking action through sanctions but what actions have been taken to help them? How angered and enraged are the Yanks or brits at their treatment?  I feel for the Ukrainians in this but just highlighting this
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 12:51:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2022, 12:36:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:19:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2022, 12:08:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 24, 2022, 12:03:45 AM
LOL whitey.

Why the hell would Putin not try this with Trump in power?

The same Trump who never missed ANY opportunity to suck up to him and defer to him, even at the expense of publicly selling out his own appointees and intelligence agencies?

And with Trump and the right wing media cheering him on from the sidelines as we speak.

So why didn't he then?  He had 4 years to do it

Seriously?

That's your QED? ;D

I've no idea. Maybe he needed time to get to that point internally or in the Ukraine? Maybe he was watching how the wider geopolitical situation evolved and saw the US right wing and Belarus and so on moving in a direction which made it easier. Maybe it has little to do with who is in power in Washington.

He knew Obama and Biden were a soft touch....that's why he waited for Joe to get in.

Trump supplied Ukraine with heavy duty weapons Obama refused to provide them with

Trump would have played hard ball-FFS he faced down that maniac in North Korea and never backed down and was accused of risking a Nuclear war-threatened him with complete annihalation

Trump would also have forced the Germans to step up

Trump was a pr1ck, but his foreign policy was flawless IMHO

I thought the Russians were trying to help Trump get elected - is that so they could have a worthy foe? Trump, Biden, Obama - all hypocrtical gobshites in my opinion and the idea that they rule a democracy is laughable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 24, 2022, 01:10:54 PM
He knew Obama was a soft touch but didn't invade then and didn't Trump threaten to withhold military aid to Ukraine the Russian enabler.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2022, 01:44:40 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 24, 2022, 01:10:54 PM
He knew Obama was a soft touch but didn't invade then and didn't Trump threaten to withhold military aid to Ukraine the Russian enabler.

He delayed it

And he actually gave them the stuff they wanted-the weapons Obama wouldn't give them for 8 years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on February 24, 2022, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2022, 01:44:40 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 24, 2022, 01:10:54 PM
He knew Obama was a soft touch but didn't invade then and didn't Trump threaten to withhold military aid to Ukraine the Russian enabler.

He delayed it

And he actually gave them the stuff they wanted-the weapons Obama wouldn't give them for 8 years

Wrong. Obama provided over 250 million dollars in military assistance. Fair play to you falling for a Trumpian lie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 24, 2022, 02:30:22 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 24, 2022, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 24, 2022, 01:44:40 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 24, 2022, 01:10:54 PM
He knew Obama was a soft touch but didn't invade then and didn't Trump threaten to withhold military aid to Ukraine the Russian enabler.

He delayed it

And he actually gave them the stuff they wanted-the weapons Obama wouldn't give them for 8 years

Wrong. Obama provided over 250 million dollars in military assistance. Fair play to you falling for a Trumpian lie.

You're flat out wrong..... but believe whatever you want

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 25, 2022, 05:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Both Republicans and Democrats have acted outrageously during recent nominations/confirmations

Hopefully they can hit the reset button on this nomination
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 10:59:04 PM
The dumb asses at the White House shared whatever info they had on putins plans to invade Ukraine with china who rebuffed them and then gave the info to Putin . Can we fire all these clowns please .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 25, 2022, 11:14:34 PM
Point of order: It's "Ukraine." Saying "The Ukraine" with the definite article is seen as a Russian expansionist thing, as if this entire country is just "the borderlands" and implies that it's part of Russia, so Ukrainians find it objectionable in the same way that we find "British Isles" objectionable. Although I don't think they have articles in Russian, but in English it can be interpreted the wrong way.

Carry on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 12:18:44 AM
It's look a grave situation in ukraine, but what really grinds my balls, is we got 2 absolute f**king pricks on here, point scoring on America in house politics with zero interest on the serious situation here. How about f**king off onto another forum, having blighted this forum/ thread for years and have not posted on any item gaa related to my knowledge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:07:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 25, 2022, 05:55:56 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Both Republicans and Democrats have acted outrageously during recent nominations/confirmations

Hopefully they can hit the reset button on this nomination

It might happen this time, but only because there is so little at stake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 26, 2022, 02:34:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.
name one that wasn't true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on February 26, 2022, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 26, 2022, 02:34:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.
name one that wasn't true
Your having a laugh ;D How about the Trudeau castro one for starters. This should be an interesting list lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)

I said investigate.

But fair enough, when do YOU think these things should be taken seriously?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2022, 01:02:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 26, 2022, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 26, 2022, 02:34:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.
name one that wasn't true
Your having a laugh ;D How about the Trudeau castro one for starters. This should be an interesting list lol

No doubt he actually believes the Trudeau "rumour", along with the endless list of "hot off the press" fever swamp shite he has posted on politics and Covid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2022, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)

I said investigate.

But fair enough, when do YOU think these things should be taken seriously?

It was investigated.........and found to be a bunch of complete and utter hogwash


(But it didn't stop the media repeating every single accusation.....including the completely insane  crazy ones ......as fact)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2022, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)

I said investigate.

But fair enough, when do YOU think these things should be taken seriously?

It was investigated.........and found to be a bunch of complete and utter hogwash


(But it didn't stop the media repeating every single accusation.....including the completely insane  crazy ones ......as fact)

It was sort of investigated.

But whatever, I've little interest in rehashing this yet again. You're adamant, I'm undecided, neither of us are going to change each other's view.

Wasn't my question anyway. I asked you where the line is, in your view, for conducting an investigation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 26, 2022, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)

I said investigate.

But fair enough, when do YOU think these things should be taken seriously?

It was investigated.........and found to be a bunch of complete and utter hogwash


(But it didn't stop the media repeating every single accusation.....including the completely insane  crazy ones ......as fact)

It was sort of investigated.

But whatever, I've little interest in rehashing this yet again. You're adamant, I'm undecided, neither of us are going to change each other's view.

Wasn't my question anyway. I asked you where the line is, in your view, for conducting an investigation.

LOL-so someone who has led an exemplary life......been vetted for jobs at the highest levels of government and the judiciary, gone through numerous FBI background checks over the decades (6 I believe) .......all of a sudden has 4500 "tips" called in against them.

So should the FBI have conducted a thorough investigation of each and every one of the 4500 tips?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2022, 11:04:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)

I said investigate.

But fair enough, when do YOU think these things should be taken seriously?

It was investigated.........and found to be a bunch of complete and utter hogwash


(But it didn't stop the media repeating every single accusation.....including the completely insane  crazy ones ......as fact)

It was sort of investigated.

But whatever, I've little interest in rehashing this yet again. You're adamant, I'm undecided, neither of us are going to change each other's view.

Wasn't my question anyway. I asked you where the line is, in your view, for conducting an investigation.

LOL-so someone who has led an exemplary life......been vetted for jobs at the highest levels of government and the judiciary, gone through numerous FBI background checks over the decades (6 I believe) .......all of a sudden has 4500 "tips" called in against them.

So should the FBI have conducted a thorough investigation of each and every one of the 4500 tips?

You're the one with certainty who's getting hyperbolic (seriously, investigator 4500 tips?), so you tell me.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 27, 2022, 01:42:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 11:04:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)

I said investigate.

But fair enough, when do YOU think these things should be taken seriously?

It was investigated.........and found to be a bunch of complete and utter hogwash


(But it didn't stop the media repeating every single accusation.....including the completely insane  crazy ones ......as fact)

It was sort of investigated.

But whatever, I've little interest in rehashing this yet again. You're adamant, I'm undecided, neither of us are going to change each other's view.

Wasn't my question anyway. I asked you where the line is, in your view, for conducting an investigation.

LOL-so someone who has led an exemplary life......been vetted for jobs at the highest levels of government and the judiciary, gone through numerous FBI background checks over the decades (6 I believe) .......all of a sudden has 4500 "tips" called in against them.

So should the FBI have conducted a thorough investigation of each and every one of the 4500 tips?

You're the one with certainty who's getting hyperbolic (seriously, investigator 4500 tips?), so you tell me.

So stating facts is hyperbolic?

The FBI did get 4,500 "tips" about Kavanaugh! (who seemingly had already passed 6 FBI background  checks and was clean as a whistle)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2022, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2022, 01:42:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 11:04:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)

I said investigate.

But fair enough, when do YOU think these things should be taken seriously?

It was investigated.........and found to be a bunch of complete and utter hogwash


(But it didn't stop the media repeating every single accusation.....including the completely insane  crazy ones ......as fact)

It was sort of investigated.

But whatever, I've little interest in rehashing this yet again. You're adamant, I'm undecided, neither of us are going to change each other's view.

Wasn't my question anyway. I asked you where the line is, in your view, for conducting an investigation.

LOL-so someone who has led an exemplary life......been vetted for jobs at the highest levels of government and the judiciary, gone through numerous FBI background checks over the decades (6 I believe) .......all of a sudden has 4500 "tips" called in against them.

So should the FBI have conducted a thorough investigation of each and every one of the 4500 tips?

You're the one with certainty who's getting hyperbolic (seriously, investigator 4500 tips?), so you tell me.

So stating facts is hyperbolic?

The FBI did get 4,500 "tips" about Kavanaugh! (who seemingly had already passed 6 FBI background  checks and was clean as a whistle)

It's a simple question whitey. You're obviously very upset over Kavanaugh, so where is the line for investigations being conducted?

I've passed multiple background checks myself, including federal ones to clear me to access secure, sensitive areas. I could have done all kinds of shit back in my teenage years, but in the absence of allegations made to authorities or otherwise being on some kind of record, there's no way anything wold have shown up during the course of those checks. Especially when you're talking about sexual assault which even today usually goes unreported.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 27, 2022, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2022, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2022, 01:42:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 11:04:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)

I said investigate.

But fair enough, when do YOU think these things should be taken seriously?

It was investigated.........and found to be a bunch of complete and utter hogwash


(But it didn't stop the media repeating every single accusation.....including the completely insane  crazy ones ......as fact)

It was sort of investigated.

But whatever, I've little interest in rehashing this yet again. You're adamant, I'm undecided, neither of us are going to change each other's view.

Wasn't my question anyway. I asked you where the line is, in your view, for conducting an investigation.

LOL-so someone who has led an exemplary life......been vetted for jobs at the highest levels of government and the judiciary, gone through numerous FBI background checks over the decades (6 I believe) .......all of a sudden has 4500 "tips" called in against them.

So should the FBI have conducted a thorough investigation of each and every one of the 4500 tips?

You're the one with certainty who's getting hyperbolic (seriously, investigator 4500 tips?), so you tell me.

So stating facts is hyperbolic?

The FBI did get 4,500 "tips" about Kavanaugh! (who seemingly had already passed 6 FBI background  checks and was clean as a whistle)

It's a simple question whitey. You're obviously very upset over Kavanaugh, so where is the line for investigations being conducted?

I've passed multiple background checks myself, including federal ones to clear me to access secure, sensitive areas. I could have done all kinds of shit back in my teenage years, but in the absence of allegations made to authorities or otherwise being on some kind of record, there's no way anything wold have shown up during the course of those checks. Especially when you're talking about sexual assault which even today usually goes unreported.
maybe the people checking should have contacted the gardai
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 27, 2022, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 27, 2022, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 27, 2022, 01:42:10 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 11:04:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 26, 2022, 03:16:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 25, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2022, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 25, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I'm sure she'll get a speedy confirmation hearing - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/biden-nominate-judge-ketanji-brown-jackson-supreme-court-rcna15941

Don't know. If she wrote something in a diary about farting in the 1970s it could hold things up.
there's rumors she was involved in gang rape back in the 90sb or at least that's what mike avenatti says or maybe it was swalwell said anyhow deserves a hearing and full fbi investigation.

A rumour is an unsourced story with no one standing behind it.

An accusation with someone willing to put their life and reputation on the line to publicly make is absolutely something that should be investigated.

And given the frequency with which you yourself pop up here with moronic, unsubstantiated, half-baked "allegations", you're about the last person who should be casting aspersions towards anyone or anything.

So if that's your definition of an accusation, I guess Joe should have withdrawn from the presidential race when several  women came forward with accusations against him

(And he was far from a teenager when some of these incidents supposedly occurred)

I said investigate.

But fair enough, when do YOU think these things should be taken seriously?

It was investigated.........and found to be a bunch of complete and utter hogwash


(But it didn't stop the media repeating every single accusation.....including the completely insane  crazy ones ......as fact)

It was sort of investigated.

But whatever, I've little interest in rehashing this yet again. You're adamant, I'm undecided, neither of us are going to change each other's view.

Wasn't my question anyway. I asked you where the line is, in your view, for conducting an investigation.

LOL-so someone who has led an exemplary life......been vetted for jobs at the highest levels of government and the judiciary, gone through numerous FBI background checks over the decades (6 I believe) .......all of a sudden has 4500 "tips" called in against them.

So should the FBI have conducted a thorough investigation of each and every one of the 4500 tips?

You're the one with certainty who's getting hyperbolic (seriously, investigator 4500 tips?), so you tell me.

So stating facts is hyperbolic?

The FBI did get 4,500 "tips" about Kavanaugh! (who seemingly had already passed 6 FBI background  checks and was clean as a whistle)

It's a simple question whitey. You're obviously very upset over Kavanaugh, so where is the line for investigations being conducted?

I've passed multiple background checks myself, including federal ones to clear me to access secure, sensitive areas. I could have done all kinds of shit back in my teenage years, but in the absence of allegations made to authorities or otherwise being on some kind of record, there's no way anything wold have shown up during the course of those checks. Especially when you're talking about sexual assault which even today usually goes unreported.

The FBI investigated and found nothing of merit

The Democrats had the Blasey Ford allegation in their back pocket but supposedly she didn't want to go into the public domain. When it looked like Kavanaugh was going to get confirmed, all of a sudden the information was "leaked" supposedly against Dr Blasey Fords wishes and then she came forward (again without an ounce of proof Kavanaugh had ever even met her in his entire life)

She had also (miraculously) forensically wiped her social media profile

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/07/christine-blasey-ford-leak-investigation-880177

The whole thing was a crock from beginning to end and any Democrat who took part in this sham should hang their heads in shame and someone as smart as you, should be equally as embarrassed for not calling this out for what it was
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 27, 2022, 02:59:54 PM
Like I said, I've no interest in rehashing the specifics of the Kavanaugh for the umpteenth time. I was talking in general. You can read ten different interpretations and accounts of what happened with Ford and Kavanaugh and why. I don't know WHO to believe. You do. So be it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 27, 2022, 03:36:08 PM
Nothing to do with believing anyone

The facts are the facts-there's not a shred of evidence Kavanaugh ever even met her never mind groped her

(The allegations are about as credible as the allegations against Joe Biden from Tara Reade)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2022, 05:18:41 AM
Trump praises Putin's invasion, and now this:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274236410_10159507222358954_1349317685124528576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=MExD-Wady94AX-qfeLj&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9N6Nei2oHOChtNRstr-QlSIr0Aw8eu9l7dAedbBcRkBA&oe=6221EB88)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 01, 2022, 04:25:30 PM
Nancy lifting congress mask mandates just in time for state of the union, follow the science ✊
As a side note president of Russia account is still active on twitter .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 01, 2022, 05:53:38 PM
"I don't really care what happens to Ukraine one way or another. ... our leaders care more about Ukraine's border than they do our own" JD Vance, Republican candidate for Ohio US Senate seat.

"Why do Democrats want you to hate Putin? Has Putin shipped every middle class job in your town to Russia? Did he manufacture a worldwide pandemic that wrecked your business? Is he teaching your kids to embrace racial discrimination? Is he making fentanyl? Does he eat dogs?" Tucker Carlson

"[Putin is] pretty smart. He's taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions. Taking over a country — really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in." Donald Trump

"Why does Joe Biden care more about Ukraine's border than the U.S. southern border?" - Republican minority of the House Judiciary Committee Twitter account

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 01, 2022, 07:39:07 PM
Aside from Carlson's disgusting "dog-eating" dog whistle about the Chinese, what do you make of the latest conservative talking point of the week? Comparing Russian tanks rolling into Ukraine to Mexican agricultural workers looking for a better life in the US. Typical conservatives. Unable to see the world beyond their own borders as anything but an opportunity to "own the libs."

Conservatives. SMH.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 01, 2022, 09:25:08 PM
What sort of administration buys up to 500,000 barrels of oil from Russia everyday when we can produce that ourselves easily and at same time talks about sanctions. Inflation in my business is more like 250/500 % on materials , these clowns need to be removed asap before there's no country left

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 01, 2022, 09:39:56 PM
Democrats have amnesia when it suits them

"The 1980s are calling and are asking for their foreign policy back"

"Tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the election"

Did absolutely nothing in 2014 when Putin annexed Crimea

Impeached Trump over delaying shipping certain weapons to Ukraine, while refusing to send the exact same weapons for 8 whole years while they were in power

Hunter Biden getting paid millions in consulting fees from Ukrainian energy companies despite having close to zero experience in that field

The whole thing is a joke

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2022, 10:00:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 01, 2022, 09:39:56 PM
The whole thing is a joke

As long as you include both sides in that - most wouldn't disagree.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 01, 2022, 10:06:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2022, 10:00:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 01, 2022, 09:39:56 PM
The whole thing is a joke

As long as you include both sides in that - most wouldn't disagree.

Yes-both sides should be absolutely fvckin ashamed of themselves

Republicans are delighted with all this because it makes Joe look very bad whatever way you shake it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2022, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 01, 2022, 09:39:56 PM
Democrats have amnesia when it suits them

"The 1980s are calling and are asking for their foreign policy back"

"Tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the election"

Did absolutely nothing in 2014 when Putin annexed Crimea

Impeached Trump over delaying shipping certain weapons to Ukraine, while refusing to send the exact same weapons for 8 whole years while they were in power

Hunter Biden getting paid millions in consulting fees from Ukrainian energy companies despite having close to zero experience in that field

The whole thing is a joke

Delaying shipping weapons?

Seriously??

They impeached Trump for using his personal lawyer to try to blackmail get a "favor" from a foreign government by initiating investigations into a presidential election opponent and supposed Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election, all for purely personal political reasons.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 02, 2022, 01:11:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2022, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 01, 2022, 09:39:56 PM
Democrats have amnesia when it suits them

"The 1980s are calling and are asking for their foreign policy back"

"Tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the election"

Did absolutely nothing in 2014 when Putin annexed Crimea

Impeached Trump over delaying shipping certain weapons to Ukraine, while refusing to send the exact same weapons for 8 whole years while they were in power

Hunter Biden getting paid millions in consulting fees from Ukrainian energy companies despite having close to zero experience in that field

The whole thing is a joke

Delaying shipping weapons?

Seriously??

They impeached Trump for using his personal lawyer to try to blackmail get a "favor" from a foreign government by initiating investigations into a presidential election opponent and supposed Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election, all for purely personal political reasons.

Do you have a problem with Hunter getting millions for doing nothing from the Ukrainians?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2022, 02:35:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 02, 2022, 01:11:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2022, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 01, 2022, 09:39:56 PM
Democrats have amnesia when it suits them

"The 1980s are calling and are asking for their foreign policy back"

"Tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the election"

Did absolutely nothing in 2014 when Putin annexed Crimea

Impeached Trump over delaying shipping certain weapons to Ukraine, while refusing to send the exact same weapons for 8 whole years while they were in power

Hunter Biden getting paid millions in consulting fees from Ukrainian energy companies despite having close to zero experience in that field

The whole thing is a joke

Delaying shipping weapons?

Seriously??

They impeached Trump for using his personal lawyer to try to blackmail get a "favor" from a foreign government by initiating investigations into a presidential election opponent and supposed Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election, all for purely personal political reasons.

Do you have a problem with Hunter getting millions for doing nothing from the Ukrainians?

Of course I have a problem with people using, selling or trying to buy influence, whether that's friends and family or whether it's all these massive, hidden political donations. But given that it's a feature, not a bug, of the system in Washington and many other countries, it's not something that causes me to lose any sleep. I assume they're all at it and get on with my day.

As with redistricting, I'll be the first in line to support reform which bans all such shenanigans and gets money and influence out of politics, but I'll not hold my breath about it ever happening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 02, 2022, 03:10:13 AM
So in other words you really don't have a problem with it

Just muddle and mash it up with a bunch of other (non related) stuff in an effort to deflect

Nothing to see here folks......keep moving
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2022, 10:13:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 02, 2022, 03:10:13 AM
So in other words you really don't have a problem with it

Just muddle and mash it up with a bunch of other (non related) stuff in an effort to deflect

Nothing to see here folks......keep moving

At least I'm honest. You only have a problem with it when it's those dirty, rotten, evil Dems.

And all that other stuff IS related. Influence is for sale.

I'm not personally getting a meeting with a senator or president because I don't have the cash to pay for it, whether directly or indirectly.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2022, 12:47:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2022, 09:25:08 PM
What sort of administration buys up to 500,000 barrels of oil from Russia everyday when we can produce that ourselves easily and at same time talks about sanctions. Inflation in my business is more like 250/500 % on materials , these clowns need to be removed asap before there's no country left

US oil imports from Russia since mid-90s:
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIM_NUS-NRS_1&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIM_NUS-NRS_1&f=M)

US Oil production by year since 1920s:
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)

I agree though that this crisis does need to wake the world up in terms of reliance on states like Russia.

Time to ramp up renewables and to embrace nuclear. Energy demands are not going away.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 02, 2022, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 10:13:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 02, 2022, 03:10:13 AM
So in other words you really don't have a problem with it

Just muddle and mash it up with a bunch of other (non related) stuff in an effort to deflect

Nothing to see here folks......keep moving

At least I'm honest. You only have a problem with it when it's those dirty, rotten, evil Dems.

And all that other stuff IS related. Influence is for sale.

I'm not personally getting a meeting with a senator or president because I don't have the cash to pay for it, whether directly or indirectly.

No-I hate both parties (almost) equally

Most Irish people I know have a very simplistic view-Democrats=Good Guys.  Republicans=Bad Guys

THEYRE ALL BAD GUYS-they just wrap it up differently to appeal to their bases

Republicans do it through faux patriotism and culture wars

Democrats do it through wokeneas, political correctness and telling everyone they're victims

Anyway getting back to Hunter- the alcoholic, drug addict son, of a sitting VP is getting paid millions of dollars in consulting fees (for essentially doing nothing) from a company in a country where his father is tasked with rooting out corruption and you don't think it's a big deal
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2022, 01:45:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 02, 2022, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 10:13:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 02, 2022, 03:10:13 AM
So in other words you really don't have a problem with it

Just muddle and mash it up with a bunch of other (non related) stuff in an effort to deflect

Nothing to see here folks......keep moving

At least I'm honest. You only have a problem with it when it's those dirty, rotten, evil Dems.

And all that other stuff IS related. Influence is for sale.

I'm not personally getting a meeting with a senator or president because I don't have the cash to pay for it, whether directly or indirectly.

No-I hate both parties (almost) equally

Most Irish people I know have a very simplistic view-Democrats=Good Guys.  Republicans=Bad Guys

THEYRE ALL BAD GUYS-they just wrap it up differently to appeal to their bases

Republicans do it through faux patriotism and culture wars

Democrats do it through wokeneas, political correctness and telling everyone they're victims

Anyway getting back to Hunter- the alcoholic, drug addict son, of a sitting VP is getting paid millions of dollars in consulting fees (for essentially doing nothing) from a company in a country where his father is tasked with rooting out corruption and you don't think it's a big deal

I said I don't lose any sleep over it. Because they're ALL at it. Why is that so hard to understand? How much did the Trump family make from gouging the taxpayer for all kinds of events and sweetheart deals with foreign governments for their businesses? How much did GOP-connectees make during the Iraq and Afghan wars with the spoils system in place there?

If someone is serious about removing the purchase of influence from politics, I'm all ears. Until then, I'm not particularly interested in partisan whining about this side or the other on this issue. Trump's corruption, for example, is appalling, and I think he is personally a sc**bag, but his corruption doesn't feature anywhere high in the list of reasons I'm repulsed politically by him and what he and the current GOP stand for.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 02, 2022, 02:55:52 PM
Glad to hear it

I have friends who are Democrats who think the Hunter Biden-Burisma arrangement is just some Fox News conspiracy theory. NY Times said there was nothing to it and that was good enough for them

Serious questions were raised by people in the Obama administration about the (perceived) conflict of interest

https://jonathanturley.org/2022/02/04/report-diplomat-complained-that-hunter-biden-was-undercutting-anti-corruption-efforts-in-ukraine/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2022, 03:19:06 PM
The problem is that everything gets hyped up as a massive scandal, whether or not there is actually something to it. There's outrage for a few days, usually partisan, then its forgotten. So people stop listening and assume that it is ALL bullshit (unless it suits them politically at a particular moment).

Hunter Biden may well have used his access or supposed influence to enrich himself; whether or not anything untoward came from that on his father's part would be the issue.

Whatever did happen, it is symptomatic of how run of the mill this type of corruption is that Hunter Biden would even try to make a living this way. Or that Joe, assuming he was above board, wouldn't see it as problematic or compromising, especially for himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 02, 2022, 03:59:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 03:19:06 PM
The problem is that everything gets hyped up as a massive scandal, whether or not there is actually something to it. There's outrage for a few days, usually partisan, then its forgotten. So people stop listening and assume that it is ALL bullshit (unless it suits them politically at a particular moment).

Hunter Biden may well have used his access or supposed influence to enrich himself; whether or not anything untoward came from that on his father's part would be the issue.

Whatever did happen, it is symptomatic of how run of the mill this type of corruption is that Hunter Biden would even try to make a living this way. Or that Joe, assuming he was above board, wouldn't see it as problematic or compromising, especially for himself.

The media share a lot of the blame here

They either "up play" or down play a story based on their affiliation

I know some very intelligent people and the stuff they actually believe as fact would shock you

They hear the headline and they hear the outrage, but they don't hear the quiet retraction or walk back 6 months later (if it happens at all)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2022, 05:59:14 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275056662_10227398895583223_2722467887850431245_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=gbpGlrT08OEAX-Slu24&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT92e11qWPpEOLjgsM1PLHf38L1RMCWq8Re7Zw_heOA8wQ&oe=6224BAB0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2022, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2022, 05:59:14 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275056662_10227398895583223_2722467887850431245_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=gbpGlrT08OEAX-Slu24&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT92e11qWPpEOLjgsM1PLHf38L1RMCWq8Re7Zw_heOA8wQ&oe=6224BAB0)
nancy looked like the martinis were tasting good after lunch yesterday, wtf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 12, 2022, 04:04:37 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/)

This is a very serious administration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 12, 2022, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 12, 2022, 04:04:37 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/)

This is a very serious administration.
kamala thinks Ukraine is in nato , wow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on March 12, 2022, 10:38:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2022, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 12, 2022, 04:04:37 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/)

This is a very serious administration.
kamala thinks Ukraine is in nato , wow

Gmac...Where is that in the article linked?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 12, 2022, 10:50:11 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on March 12, 2022, 10:38:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2022, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 12, 2022, 04:04:37 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/)

This is a very serious administration.
kamala thinks Ukraine is in nato , wow

Gmac...Where is that in the article linked?
it's not but it's a comment on this not being a serious administration. She thinks Ukraine is in nato.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2022, 11:13:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2022, 10:50:11 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on March 12, 2022, 10:38:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 12, 2022, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 12, 2022, 04:04:37 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/)

This is a very serious administration.
kamala thinks Ukraine is in nato , wow


Gmac...Where is that in the article linked?
it's not but it's a comment on this not being a serious administration. She thinks Ukraine is in nato.

No chance of a source I presume?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2022, 11:16:07 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 12, 2022, 04:04:37 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/)

This is a very serious administration.

Not seeing the problem with that, to be honest.

Tik Tok is just another social media outlet, like Twitter, and a rapidly expanding one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2022, 04:44:10 PM
TikTok is up to 2 billion downloads worldwide. In the linked article it says millions of people are getting their news about the war through that platform. Is this the conservative outrage excuse of the week? That the Biden administration is media savvy? Christ that's even lamer than tan-suit-gate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 14, 2022, 09:13:55 PM
Yeah they should have spoke to Kanye West or Kim Kardashian instead.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 15, 2022, 07:51:18 PM
One of the Boston Globes "Bostonians of the Year" indicted by the Feds for thievery this morning

https://youtu.be/7DEG72ZM180

Watch this video if you want a laugh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2022, 06:49:53 PM
Today in conservative douchebaggery, Tennessee Rethuglicans are advancing a Texas style anti-abortion bill that would allow the families of rapists to sue the rape victim's abortion provider. I swear this is not satire:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/tennessee-republicans-introduce-texas-styled-abortion-bill
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Because Trumps reaction would have been unpredictable whereas Joes was completely predictable
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on March 19, 2022, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Because Trumps reaction would have been unpredictable whereas Joes was completely predictable

Hugh mistake not to invade while Trump was in Office , Trump would have supported his Invasion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Xw0_2eMJg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on March 19, 2022, 05:43:48 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on March 19, 2022, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Because Trumps reaction would have been unpredictable whereas Joes was completely predictable

Hugh mistake not to invade while Trump was in Office , Trump would have supported his Invasion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Xw0_2eMJg

During the Soviet era, Russian intelligence cast a wide net to gain leverage over influential figures abroad. (The practice continues to this day.) The Russians would lure or entrap not only prominent politicians and cultural leaders, but also people whom they saw as having the potential for gaining prominence in the future. In 1986, Soviet ambassador Yuri Dubinin met Trump in New York, flattered him with praise for his building exploits, and invited him to discuss a building in Moscow. Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump's own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)

Reporter Craig Unger got a former KGB spy to confirm on the record that Russian intelligence had been working Trump for decades. In his new book, "American Kompromat," Unger interviewed Yuri Shvets, who told him that the KGB manipulated Trump with simple flattery. "In terms of his personality, the guy is not a complicated cookie," he said, "his most important characteristics being low intellect coupled with hyperinflated vanity. This makes him a dream for an experienced recruiter."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:45:27 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on March 19, 2022, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Because Trumps reaction would have been unpredictable whereas Joes was completely predictable

Hugh mistake not to invade while Trump was in Office , Trump would have supported his Invasion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Xw0_2eMJg

Trump actually gave the Ukrainians weapons the weapons they wanted, while 8 years of Obama gave them very little
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 19, 2022, 05:43:48 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on March 19, 2022, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Because Trumps reaction would have been unpredictable whereas Joes was completely predictable

Hugh mistake not to invade while Trump was in Office , Trump would have supported his Invasion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Xw0_2eMJg

During the Soviet era, Russian intelligence cast a wide net to gain leverage over influential figures abroad. (The practice continues to this day.) The Russians would lure or entrap not only prominent politicians and cultural leaders, but also people whom they saw as having the potential for gaining prominence in the future. In 1986, Soviet ambassador Yuri Dubinin met Trump in New York, flattered him with praise for his building exploits, and invited him to discuss a building in Moscow. Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump's own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)

Reporter Craig Unger got a former KGB spy to confirm on the record that Russian intelligence had been working Trump for decades. In his new book, "American Kompromat," Unger interviewed Yuri Shvets, who told him that the KGB manipulated Trump with simple flattery. "In terms of his personality, the guy is not a complicated cookie," he said, "his most important characteristics being low intellect coupled with hyperinflated vanity. This makes him a dream for an experienced recruiter."

So who do you think the Russians have more dirt on?

Trump or Hunter Biden?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on March 19, 2022, 06:04:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 19, 2022, 05:43:48 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on March 19, 2022, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Because Trumps reaction would have been unpredictable whereas Joes was completely predictable

Hugh mistake not to invade while Trump was in Office , Trump would have supported his Invasion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Xw0_2eMJg

During the Soviet era, Russian intelligence cast a wide net to gain leverage over influential figures abroad. (The practice continues to this day.) The Russians would lure or entrap not only prominent politicians and cultural leaders, but also people whom they saw as having the potential for gaining prominence in the future. In 1986, Soviet ambassador Yuri Dubinin met Trump in New York, flattered him with praise for his building exploits, and invited him to discuss a building in Moscow. Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump's own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)

Reporter Craig Unger got a former KGB spy to confirm on the record that Russian intelligence had been working Trump for decades. In his new book, "American Kompromat," Unger interviewed Yuri Shvets, who told him that the KGB manipulated Trump with simple flattery. "In terms of his personality, the guy is not a complicated cookie," he said, "his most important characteristics being low intellect coupled with hyperinflated vanity. This makes him a dream for an experienced recruiter."

So who do you think the Russians have more dirt on?

Trump or Hunter Biden?

It's who they control. They control Trump, hence why he never once criticised Putin even going against his own intelligence services.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 19, 2022, 06:21:47 PM
Trumps love in with Putin was there for all to see, only the blinkered (gmac and Whitey) can't see that he was comprised in some way. He ignore his own cia info on Russia trying to interfer in a election as it had benefitted him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 19, 2022, 07:44:19 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 19, 2022, 06:04:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 19, 2022, 05:43:48 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on March 19, 2022, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Because Trumps reaction would have been unpredictable whereas Joes was completely predictable

Hugh mistake not to invade while Trump was in Office , Trump would have supported his Invasion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Xw0_2eMJg

During the Soviet era, Russian intelligence cast a wide net to gain leverage over influential figures abroad. (The practice continues to this day.) The Russians would lure or entrap not only prominent politicians and cultural leaders, but also people whom they saw as having the potential for gaining prominence in the future. In 1986, Soviet ambassador Yuri Dubinin met Trump in New York, flattered him with praise for his building exploits, and invited him to discuss a building in Moscow. Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump's own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)

Reporter Craig Unger got a former KGB spy to confirm on the record that Russian intelligence had been working Trump for decades. In his new book, "American Kompromat," Unger interviewed Yuri Shvets, who told him that the KGB manipulated Trump with simple flattery. "In terms of his personality, the guy is not a complicated cookie," he said, "his most important characteristics being low intellect coupled with hyperinflated vanity. This makes him a dream for an experienced recruiter."

So who do you think the Russians have more dirt on?

Trump or Hunter Biden?

It's who they control. They control Trump, hence why he never once criticised Putin even going against his own intelligence services.

You mean his own intelligence services who facilitated the false dossier that was full of Russian misinformation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on March 19, 2022, 11:05:01 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/yovanovitch-giuliani-was-trump-personal-dirt-digger-ukraine-disinformation-2022-3
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Yeah, that's a good one all right.

School kid levels of insight and analysis.

But if you leave aside the fact that even members of Trump's own foreign policy team have been ridiculing this "argument" and you go with the "Putin wouldn't do it because Trump is unpredictable" narrative, how the f**k would that be a good thing?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2022, 02:36:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Yeah, that's a good one all right.

School kid levels of insight and analysis.

But if you leave aside the fact that even members of Trump's own foreign policy team have been ridiculing this "argument" and you go with the "Putin wouldn't do it because Trump is unpredictable" narrative, how the f**k would that be a good thing?

So why do you think Putin decided to wait until Trump was out of office before invading?

If Trump was in his pocket wouldn't it have made a whole lot more sense to invade during the chaos of the Trump administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on March 20, 2022, 03:36:02 PM
Hugh mistake by Putin  not to invade while Trump was in office  but  I suppose There wasnt much time as he excepted him to win the election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2022, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2022, 02:36:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Yeah, that's a good one all right.

School kid levels of insight and analysis.

But if you leave aside the fact that even members of Trump's own foreign policy team have been ridiculing this "argument" and you go with the "Putin wouldn't do it because Trump is unpredictable" narrative, how the f**k would that be a good thing?

So why do you think Putin decided to wait until Trump was out of office before invading?

If Trump was in his pocket wouldn't it have made a whole lot more sense to invade during the chaos of the Trump administration

Maybe Putin was happy to sit back and watch Trump shred US relations with their EU and NATO allies, promote corrupt strongmen the world over and undermine democracy? Supposedly Trump was even talking behind the scenes about removing the US from NATO, but was advised to put a lid on it until his second term.

Trump has never missed a single opportunity, even out of office, to side with and praise Putin at the expense of his own government and country. Either he's intimidated by him, or he honestly admires his whole anti-democratic, strongman act. Personally I suspect it's both.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 20, 2022, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Yeah, that's a good one all right.

School kid levels of insight and analysis.

But if you leave aside the fact that even members of Trump's own foreign policy team have been ridiculing this "argument" and you go with the "Putin wouldn't do it because Trump is unpredictable" narrative, how the f**k would that be a good thing?
your analysis is much smarter j70 , your opinion should be scoffed at for the simple reason you think the current president is even lucid. Idiot
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on March 20, 2022, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2022, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Yeah, that's a good one all right.

School kid levels of insight and analysis.

But if you leave aside the fact that even members of Trump's own foreign policy team have been ridiculing this "argument" and you go with the "Putin wouldn't do it because Trump is unpredictable" narrative, how the f**k would that be a good thing?
your analysis is much smarter j70 , your opinion should be scoffed at for the simple reason you think the current president is even lucid. Idiot

Compared to the previous incumbent hes a genius. Trump was recruited by the Russians because of his combination of extremely low intellect and massive ego.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 20, 2022, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 20, 2022, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2022, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Yeah, that's a good one all right.

School kid levels of insight and analysis.

But if you leave aside the fact that even members of Trump's own foreign policy team have been ridiculing this "argument" and you go with the "Putin wouldn't do it because Trump is unpredictable" narrative, how the f**k would that be a good thing?
your analysis is much smarter j70 , your opinion should be scoffed at for the simple reason you think the current president is even lucid. Idiot

Compared to the previous incumbent hes a genius. Trump was recruited by the Russians because of his combination of extremely low intellect and massive ego.
facts are facts the world was a safer place 2017/21 like it or not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2022, 04:52:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2022, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 20, 2022, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2022, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Yeah, that's a good one all right.

School kid levels of insight and analysis.

But if you leave aside the fact that even members of Trump's own foreign policy team have been ridiculing this "argument" and you go with the "Putin wouldn't do it because Trump is unpredictable" narrative, how the f**k would that be a good thing?
your analysis is much smarter j70 , your opinion should be scoffed at for the simple reason you think the current president is even lucid. Idiot

Compared to the previous incumbent hes a genius. Trump was recruited by the Russians because of his combination of extremely low intellect and massive ego.
facts are facts the world was a safer place 2017/21 like it or not

More stunning analysis.

As if events that occur during different US presidential administrations are independent and self-contained.

But sure go ahead. Tell us what Trump did to make the world a safer place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 20, 2022, 05:15:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 04:52:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2022, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 20, 2022, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 20, 2022, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 19, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 19, 2022, 03:26:15 PM
Hunter's laptop story and all emails on it were true and the media and Facebook/twitter shown up as the hacks they are .fake news is everywhere

Funny how they didn't need such a high standard of proof when it came to sharing the contents of the "dossier"
yes indeed ,  heard a good one the other day if trump was in putins pocket like the media and democrats claimed why did Putin wait until he was out of office to invade  Ukraine ?

Yeah, that's a good one all right.

School kid levels of insight and analysis.

But if you leave aside the fact that even members of Trump's own foreign policy team have been ridiculing this "argument" and you go with the "Putin wouldn't do it because Trump is unpredictable" narrative, how the f**k would that be a good thing?
your analysis is much smarter j70 , your opinion should be scoffed at for the simple reason you think the current president is even lucid. Idiot

Compared to the previous incumbent hes a genius. Trump was recruited by the Russians because of his combination of extremely low intellect and massive ego.
facts are facts the world was a safer place 2017/21 like it or not

More stunning analysis.

As if events that occur during different US presidential administrations are independent and self-contained.

But sure go ahead. Tell us what Trump did to make the world a safer place.
again your smarter than everyone but you can't admit the president is a lemon which is obvious to anyone with an iq over 70
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2022, 06:51:44 PM
Obama mocked Romney when he stated that Russia was a threat

Obama put token sanctions in place when Russia invaded Crimea

Obama refused to provide Ukraine with the weapons they wanted

Obama did not hold his NATO partners accountable for contributing their fair share

Obama caught on a hot Mike telling the Russians I'll have more flexibility after the election


But......it's all Trumps Fault!!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 20, 2022, 07:20:20 PM
Barry really did a number of a few of you lads
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 20, 2022, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2022, 06:51:44 PM
Obama mocked Romney when he stated that Russia was a threat

Obama put token sanctions in place when Russia invaded Crimea

Obama refused to provide Ukraine with the weapons they wanted

Obama did not hold his NATO partners accountable for contributing their fair share

Obama caught on a hot Mike telling the Russians I'll have more flexibility after the election


But......it's all Trumps Fault!!!!

Who is saying it's all Trump's fault?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 21, 2022, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2022, 06:51:44 PM
Obama mocked Romney when he stated that Russia was a threat

Obama put token sanctions in place when Russia invaded Crimea

Obama refused to provide Ukraine with the weapons they wanted

Obama did not hold his NATO partners accountable for contributing their fair share

Obama caught on a hot Mike telling the Russians I'll have more flexibility after the election


But......it's all Trumps Fault!!!!

Who is saying it's all Trump's fault?

Some of the simpletons on here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2022, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2022, 06:51:44 PM
Obama mocked Romney when he stated that Russia was a threat

Obama put token sanctions in place when Russia invaded Crimea

Obama refused to provide Ukraine with the weapons they wanted

Obama did not hold his NATO partners accountable for contributing their fair share

Obama caught on a hot Mike telling the Russians I'll have more flexibility after the election


But......it's all Trumps Fault!!!!

Who is saying it's all Trump's fault?

Some of the simpletons on here
watch out whitey or some of the snowflakes will be reporting you for abuse
Btw the Ashley Biden diary is true also .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 22, 2022, 05:29:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 22, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2022, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2022, 06:51:44 PM
Obama mocked Romney when he stated that Russia was a threat

Obama put token sanctions in place when Russia invaded Crimea

Obama refused to provide Ukraine with the weapons they wanted

Obama did not hold his NATO partners accountable for contributing their fair share

Obama caught on a hot Mike telling the Russians I'll have more flexibility after the election


But......it's all Trumps Fault!!!!

Who is saying it's all Trump's fault?

Some of the simpletons on here
watch out whitey or some of the snowflakes will be reporting you for abuse
Btw the Ashley Biden diary is true also .


I'll never forget being in a pub in Ireland in the Summer of 2016 and explaining to someone why Trump actually had a chance of beating Hillary. I said that he'd probably lose, but it would be a lot closer than people thought.

The person I was talking to regurgitated every  left wing talking point I had ever heard....it was actually scary that "smart" people could be so I'll informed

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2022, 06:20:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2022, 05:29:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 22, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2022, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2022, 06:51:44 PM
Obama mocked Romney when he stated that Russia was a threat

Obama put token sanctions in place when Russia invaded Crimea

Obama refused to provide Ukraine with the weapons they wanted

Obama did not hold his NATO partners accountable for contributing their fair share

Obama caught on a hot Mike telling the Russians I'll have more flexibility after the election


But......it's all Trumps Fault!!!!

Who is saying it's all Trump's fault?

Some of the simpletons on here
watch out whitey or some of the snowflakes will be reporting you for abuse
Btw the Ashley Biden diary is true also .


I'll never forget being in a pub in Ireland in the Summer of 2016 and explaining to someone why Trump actually had a chance of beating Hillary. I said that he'd probably lose, but it would be a lot closer than people thought.

The person I was talking to regurgitated every  left wing talking point I had ever heard....it was actually scary that "smart" people could be so I'll informed

You strike me as a fairly smart lad yourself whitey. ;) :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2022, 06:25:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2022, 05:29:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 22, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2022, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2022, 06:51:44 PM
Obama mocked Romney when he stated that Russia was a threat

Obama put token sanctions in place when Russia invaded Crimea

Obama refused to provide Ukraine with the weapons they wanted

Obama did not hold his NATO partners accountable for contributing their fair share

Obama caught on a hot Mike telling the Russians I'll have more flexibility after the election


But......it's all Trumps Fault!!!!

Who is saying it's all Trump's fault?

Some of the simpletons on here
watch out whitey or some of the snowflakes will be reporting you for abuse
Btw the Ashley Biden diary is true also .


I'll never forget being in a pub in Ireland in the Summer of 2016 and explaining to someone why Trump actually had a chance of beating Hillary. I said that he'd probably lose, but it would be a lot closer than people thought.

The person I was talking to regurgitated every  left wing talking point I had ever heard....it was actually scary that "smart" people could be so I'll informed
had a similar experience in donegal town getting a haircut back then I didn't know if it was Brian stelter or Anderson cooper cutting my hair , maybe he was related to j70.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2022, 06:42:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 22, 2022, 05:29:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 22, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 21, 2022, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 20, 2022, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 20, 2022, 06:51:44 PM
Obama mocked Romney when he stated that Russia was a threat

Obama put token sanctions in place when Russia invaded Crimea

Obama refused to provide Ukraine with the weapons they wanted

Obama did not hold his NATO partners accountable for contributing their fair share

Obama caught on a hot Mike telling the Russians I'll have more flexibility after the election


But......it's all Trumps Fault!!!!

Who is saying it's all Trump's fault?

Some of the simpletons on here
watch out whitey or some of the snowflakes will be reporting you for abuse
Btw the Ashley Biden diary is true also .


Il scary that "smart" people could be so I'll informed
🙄🙄
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 23, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
I did get a good chuckle out of Ted Cruz asking KBJ about the teaching of  CRT at a school she's on the board of and then highlighted excerpts from the Antiracist Baby (which were required reading at the school) when she denied it or elements of it were taught there



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/watch-sen-ted-cruz-presses-ketanji-jackson-brown-on-critical-race-theory
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
I did get a good chuckle out of Ted Cruz asking KBJ about the teaching of  CRT at a school she's on the board of and then highlighted excerpts from the Antiracist Baby (which were required reading at the school) when she denied it or elements of it were taught there



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/watch-sen-ted-cruz-presses-ketanji-jackson-brown-on-critical-race-theory
the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2022, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
I did get a good chuckle out of Ted Cruz asking KBJ about the teaching of  CRT at a school she's on the board of and then highlighted excerpts from the Antiracist Baby (which were required reading at the school) when she denied it or elements of it were taught there



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/watch-sen-ted-cruz-presses-ketanji-jackson-brown-on-critical-race-theory
the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote .

I haven't read Antiracist Baby (never heard of it).

Evidently you have.

Why is it trash?

And what does the statement "the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote" actually mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2022, 03:51:04 PM
Here's the terrible "trash" book in question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw3DjP7HSts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw3DjP7HSts)

I would have thought most people would have little problem with the overall theme of teaching kids that its ok that people come in different skin colours and backgrounds and that these should be celebrated.

And the idea that racism is not taught is just f**king laughable.

But... Senators are going to grandstand and idiots are going to swallow it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 04:29:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
I did get a good chuckle out of Ted Cruz asking KBJ about the teaching of  CRT at a school she's on the board of and then highlighted excerpts from the Antiracist Baby (which were required reading at the school) when she denied it or elements of it were taught there



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/watch-sen-ted-cruz-presses-ketanji-jackson-brown-on-critical-race-theory
the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote .

I haven't read Antiracist Baby (never heard of it).

Evidently you have.

Why is it trash?

And what does the statement "the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote" actually mean?
you want it as your last post  shows, voting for democrats in places like New York and sf Bay Area means you are voting for massive homelessness, violent and property crime through the roof , cost of living through the roof , idiotic green policies shoved down your throat, massive taxes ,no prosecution for certain types of criminals, businesses leaving areas due to massive thefts and no prosecution, so what's a little cracker bashing on top of that .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2022, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 04:29:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
I did get a good chuckle out of Ted Cruz asking KBJ about the teaching of  CRT at a school she's on the board of and then highlighted excerpts from the Antiracist Baby (which were required reading at the school) when she denied it or elements of it were taught there



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/watch-sen-ted-cruz-presses-ketanji-jackson-brown-on-critical-race-theory
the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote .

I haven't read Antiracist Baby (never heard of it).

Evidently you have.

Why is it trash?

And what does the statement "the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote" actually mean?
you want it as your last post  shows, voting for democrats in places like New York and sf Bay Area means you are voting for massive homelessness, violent and property crime through the roof , cost of living through the roof , idiotic green policies shoved down your throat, massive taxes ,no prosecution for certain types of criminals, businesses leaving areas due to massive thefts and no prosecution, so what's a little cracker bashing on top of that .

1. Where is the "cracker bashing" in that book? It took the narrator in the youtube clip I posted three minutes to read the entire book.  Shouldn't be too hard for you to point it out.  Its aimed at young kids after all.

2. What does the rest of your rant have to do with "the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote"? Is "cracker bashing" a powerful and decisive Democratic wedge issue in the wild, paranoid fantasies of people like yourself?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 23, 2022, 04:42:17 PM
I wish u 2 intelligent people living it up in America would left all us dumb Irish locals alone and f**k off this forum. You 2 clowns pollute this thread with pure shit talk, and I don't seem to come across you on any other threads. I don't know what type of Job you do but it cant be much given the amount of time you spend posting nosense on here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 04:50:23 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 23, 2022, 04:42:17 PM
I wish u 2 intelligent people living it up in America would left all us dumb Irish locals alone and f**k off this forum. You 2 clowns pollute this thread with pure shit talk, and I don't seem to come across you on any other threads. I don't know what type of Job you do but it cant be much given the amount of time you spend posting nosense on here.
don't read it ,goodbye
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 04:56:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 04:29:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
I did get a good chuckle out of Ted Cruz asking KBJ about the teaching of  CRT at a school she's on the board of and then highlighted excerpts from the Antiracist Baby (which were required reading at the school) when she denied it or elements of it were taught there



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/watch-sen-ted-cruz-presses-ketanji-jackson-brown-on-critical-race-theory
the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote .

I haven't read Antiracist Baby (never heard of it).

Evidently you have.

Why is it trash?

And what does the statement "the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote" actually mean?
you want it as your last post  shows, voting for democrats in places like New York and sf Bay Area means you are voting for massive homelessness, violent and property crime through the roof , cost of living through the roof , idiotic green policies shoved down your throat, massive taxes ,no prosecution for certain types of criminals, businesses leaving areas due to massive thefts and no prosecution, so what's a little cracker bashing on top of that .

1. Where is the "cracker bashing" in that book? It took the narrator in the youtube clip I posted three minutes to read the entire book.  Shouldn't be too hard for you to point it out.  Its aimed at young kids after all.

2. What does the rest of your rant have to do with "the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote"? Is "cracker bashing" a powerful and decisive Democratic wedge issue in the wild, paranoid fantasies of people like yourself?
because that's what happens to all places that are democrat super majorities, they've turned the golden state into the rotten state and anyone who votes for them deserves everything they get.
Why do you think we have the biggest idiot ever as vo ? Because of brainless Bay Area and ca politics.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:03:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 04:56:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 04:29:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
I did get a good chuckle out of Ted Cruz asking KBJ about the teaching of  CRT at a school she's on the board of and then highlighted excerpts from the Antiracist Baby (which were required reading at the school) when she denied it or elements of it were taught there



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/watch-sen-ted-cruz-presses-ketanji-jackson-brown-on-critical-race-theory
the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote .

I haven't read Antiracist Baby (never heard of it).

Evidently you have.

Why is it trash?

And what does the statement "the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote" actually mean?
you want it as your last post  shows, voting for democrats in places like New York and sf Bay Area means you are voting for massive homelessness, violent and property crime through the roof , cost of living through the roof , idiotic green policies shoved down your throat, massive taxes ,no prosecution for certain types of criminals, businesses leaving areas due to massive thefts and no prosecution, so what's a little cracker bashing on top of that .

1. Where is the "cracker bashing" in that book? It took the narrator in the youtube clip I posted three minutes to read the entire book.  Shouldn't be too hard for you to point it out.  Its aimed at young kids after all.

2. What does the rest of your rant have to do with "the sad thing is lots of non black people want this kind of trash in schools otherwise the democrats wouldn't get 20% of vote"? Is "cracker bashing" a powerful and decisive Democratic wedge issue in the wild, paranoid fantasies of people like yourself?
because that's what happens to all places that are democrat super majorities, they've turned the golden state into the rotten state and anyone who votes for them deserves everything they get.
Why do you think we have the biggest idiot ever as vo ? Because of brainless Bay Area and ca politics.

So nothing on the whole "Antiracist baby"/Dem wedge issue thing?

Although I absolutely agree that supermajorities, whether Democrat OR Republican (or any party/ideology for that matter) are an undesirable thing. Which is partly why I despise gerrymandering and dark money in politics, as they help to lock those things in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 23, 2022, 06:09:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.

I read both White Fragility (Robin DiAngelo) and How to be an Anti Racist (Kendi)  and I have to say that I have never read such nonsense in my entire life

The fact that Kendi then wrote Anti Racist Baby (and it has become required/recommended reading at many schools) shows what a complete scam some of this CRT stuff is. It's all about guilty rich white people going through some token exercise to make them feel good about themselves
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2022, 06:19:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2022, 06:09:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.

I read both White Fragility (Robin DiAngelo) and How to be an Anti Racist (Kendi)  and I have to say that I have never read such nonsense in my entire life

The fact that Kendi then wrote Anti Racist Baby (and it has become required/recommended reading at many schools) shows what a complete scam some of this CRT stuff is. It's all about guilty rich white people going through some token exercise to make them feel good about themselves

And at the other end you have resentful white people who think that teaching kids about slavery and the civil war and Jim Crow and racism in general (including its continuing existence) are all some plot to make their little darlings feel bad about themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.
what is a woman is a gotcha question ? Ok are you a man or woman and how would you know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 23, 2022, 06:41:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 06:19:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 23, 2022, 06:09:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.

I read both White Fragility (Robin DiAngelo) and How to be an Anti Racist (Kendi)  and I have to say that I have never read such nonsense in my entire life

The fact that Kendi then wrote Anti Racist Baby (and it has become required/recommended reading at many schools) shows what a complete scam some of this CRT stuff is. It's all about guilty rich white people going through some token exercise to make them feel good about themselves

And at the other end you have resentful white people who think that teaching kids about slavery and the civil war and Jim Crow and racism in general (including its continuing existence) are all some plot to make their little darlings feel bad about themselves.

Agreed

There are culture wars going being waged by both sides
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 23, 2022, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.
what is a woman is a gotcha question ? Ok are you a man or woman and how would you know

Gmac, if you want to pretend that was not a loaded gotcha question on transexuality, a complicated issue, knock yourself out.

But sure go ahead and give us your definition of a woman and how your dichotomous, black and white system takes into account every human being in existence.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 08:22:08 PM
Gerrymandering (partisan and racial) in the USA is so brazen and oft practiced as the default (and legal) response to retaining power. It's nothing less than a toxic corruption of democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.
what is a woman is a gotcha question ? Ok are you a man or woman and how would you know

Gmac, if you want to pretend that was not a loaded gotcha question on transexuality, a complicated issue, knock yourself out.

But sure go ahead and give us your definition of a woman and how your dichotomous, black and white system takes into account every human being in existence.
did joe not say he wanted a woman of color for his vp and then he said he wanted a woman of color for the Supreme Court so I agree with joe it's a female of the human species, other people may call themselves a woman and that's fine but I'm not playing along .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2022, 09:35:03 PM
These hearings are boring. I haven't seen her crying yet, or blubbering about how much she loves beer and shagging. Maybe women should be kept off the bench because they're not emotional enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 24, 2022, 08:18:40 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2022, 09:35:03 PM
These hearings are boring. I haven't seen her crying yet, or blubbering about how much she loves beer and shagging. Maybe women should be kept off the bench because they're not emotional enough.

Any mention of fart jokes in a diary 40 years ago?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2022, 08:50:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.
what is a woman is a gotcha question ? Ok are you a man or woman and how would you know

Gmac, if you want to pretend that was not a loaded gotcha question on transexuality, a complicated issue, knock yourself out.

But sure go ahead and give us your definition of a woman and how your dichotomous, black and white system takes into account every human being in existence.
did joe not say he wanted a woman of color for his vp and then he said he wanted a woman of color for the Supreme Court so I agree with joe it's a female of the human species, other people may call themselves a woman and that's fine but I'm not playing along .

So it's fine, but you're not playing along?

Well then it's not fine, is it? Especially as you're the one getting your knickers in a twist over the issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2022, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 08:50:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.
what is a woman is a gotcha question ? Ok are you a man or woman and how would you know

Gmac, if you want to pretend that was not a loaded gotcha question on transexuality, a complicated issue, knock yourself out.

But sure go ahead and give us your definition of a woman and how your dichotomous, black and white system takes into account every human being in existence.
did joe not say he wanted a woman of color for his vp and then he said he wanted a woman of color for the Supreme Court so I agree with joe it's a female of the human species, other people may call themselves a woman and that's fine but I'm not playing along .

So it's fine, but you're not playing along?

Well then it's not fine, is it? Especially as you're the one getting your knickers in a twist over the issue.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/22/jill-biden-kamala-harris-runing-mate-vice-president-book

I said it at the time that Kamala was a disgrace for implying Joe was a racist. (I would have actually voted for Joe if he had picked someone else as his running mate)

Of course the simpletons on here disagreed with me  because Kamala prefaced her attack by saying "I'm not saying you're a racist".  I know what I heard and Dr Jill  heard exactly the same thing.

She has had several opportunities to apologize and make things right, but she just cackles and says it was a debate

I wonder if she thinks it was okay for Tulsi to misrepresent her record and attack her because that also happened during a debate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2022, 11:43:42 AM
We discussed this at the time. I've no real interest in rehashing it as I haven't changed my mind and its there in this thread from two years ago. I still think Biden's record was fair game. Maybe Harris could have approached it more delicately and maybe she should have apologized, but it was still his record. Mean things get said in primaries, not just general elections. Newt Gingrich called Romney and his business career "vulture capitalism". Arguably the only thing she hurt anyway was her own candidacy. Joe ended up being rescued and thrust front and center by the black community of South Carolina.

As for not voting for him because he chose Harris, well you voted for Trump, didn't you? How much utter shite and slanderous lies has he put out there in just his political years, including in debates?

And VP choice is purely political. There's no room for sentiment and never has been. John McCain wanted Joe Lieberman, but had to go with Palin to secure the yahoo base of the GOP, basically paving the road that ended up with Trump. Ronald Reagan chose a VP candidate and successor who called his jewel policy position "voodoo economics".  You think JFK and LBJ were best buddies? Biden chose Harris because he had to tie up the Democratic coalition, including the progressive wing, to beat Trump. I'm sure he choked on his porridge a wee bit, and I doubt if their personal relationship is warm, but c'est la vie.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2022, 01:18:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 11:43:42 AM
We discussed this at the time. I've no real interest in rehashing it as I haven't changed my mind and its there in this thread from two years ago. I still think Biden's record was fair game. Maybe Harris could have approached it more delicately and maybe she should have apologized, but it was still his record. Mean things get said in primaries, not just general elections. Newt Gingrich called Romney and his business career "vulture capitalism". Arguably the only thing she hurt anyway was her own candidacy. Joe ended up being rescued and thrust front and center by the black community of South Carolina.

As for not voting for him because he chose Harris, well you voted for Trump, didn't you? How much utter shite and slanderous lies has he put out there in just his political years, including in debates?

And VP choice is purely political. There's no room for sentiment and never has been. John McCain wanted Joe Lieberman, but had to go with Palin to secure the yahoo base of the GOP, basically paving the road that ended up with Trump. Ronald Reagan chose a VP candidate and successor who called his jewel policy position "voodoo economics".  You think JFK and LBJ were best buddies? Biden chose Harris because he had to tie up the Democratic coalition, including the progressive wing, to beat Trump. I'm sure he choked on his porridge a wee bit, and I doubt if their personal relationship is warm, but c'est la vie.

At time when the country was being ripped apart by racial strife do you think what she did was helpful?

It was complete and utter BS and she essentially admitted later that she would have held the same position Joe held at the time

This is actually how Trump got elected in the first place-by the Democrats accusing people of being racists for disagreeing with them.

No matter what you do or how far you go to meet them in the middle is never enough

You can be all for gay marriage. You can be all for gays in the military. You can be for same sex couples adopting kids, but God forbid you have an opinion on a biological male swimmer smashing every record under the sun competing against biological females. Now you're a bigot and a homophone/trans phobe or some other made up name (BTW-I personally don't care about this particular topic, but I vehemently disagree with the demonization of those who do hold opinions)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2022, 02:16:54 PM
And on the right if you don't deny the dignity and humanity of transgender people, you're a deviant commie out to destroy the fabric of society.

Most sensible people are struggling with this issue and don't align with either those who want to jump straight to young kids being given hormonal or surgical treatments or those who want to deny the existence of transgenderism.

Which is why Jackson was correct to punt on Blackburn's question.


You've brought up Trump getting elected due to "Democrats accusing people of being racists for disagreeing with them" before. It didn't make sense then. It doesn't now. If you vote for Trump based on racial issues, at least have the balls to admit that it is because you like his in-your-face bigotry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2022, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 02:16:54 PM
And on the right if you don't deny the dignity and humanity of transgender people, you're a deviant commie out to destroy the fabric of society.

Most sensible people are struggling with this issue and don't align with either those who want to jump straight to young kids being given hormonal or surgical treatments or those who want to deny the existence of transgenderism.

Which is why Jackson was correct to punt on Blackburn's question.


You've brought up Trump getting elected due to "Democrats accusing people of being racists for disagreeing with them" before. It didn't make sense then. It doesn't now. If you vote for Trump based on racial issues, at least have the balls to admit that it is because you like his in-your-face bigotry.

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Believe whatever you want. You need to get out of your bubble

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 24, 2022, 04:36:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 08:50:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.
what is a woman is a gotcha question ? Ok are you a man or woman and how would you know

Gmac, if you want to pretend that was not a loaded gotcha question on transexuality, a complicated issue, knock yourself out.

But sure go ahead and give us your definition of a woman and how your dichotomous, black and white system takes into account every human being in existence.
did joe not say he wanted a woman of color for his vp and then he said he wanted a woman of color for the Supreme Court so I agree with joe it's a female of the human species, other people may call themselves a woman and that's fine but I'm not playing along .

So it's fine, but you're not playing along?

Well then it's not fine, is it? Especially as you're the one getting your knickers in a twist over the issue.
if she's a woman of color but doesn't know what a woman is how is she acceptable as a candidate?  according to herself she may not even be a woman, this is why this type of bs is ridiculous and needs to be called out every time you see it and playing along just leads to more insanity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2022, 04:40:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2022, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 02:16:54 PM
And on the right if you don't deny the dignity and humanity of transgender people, you're a deviant commie out to destroy the fabric of society.

Most sensible people are struggling with this issue and don't align with either those who want to jump straight to young kids being given hormonal or surgical treatments or those who want to deny the existence of transgenderism.

Which is why Jackson was correct to punt on Blackburn's question.


You've brought up Trump getting elected due to "Democrats accusing people of being racists for disagreeing with them" before. It didn't make sense then. It doesn't now. If you vote for Trump based on racial issues, at least have the balls to admit that it is because you like his in-your-face bigotry.

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Believe whatever you want. You need to get out of your bubble

You've posted that before.

And as I'm pretty sure I responded last time you posted about people voting for Trump because they felt elites were "talking down to them", they should grow the f**k up and welcome to the real world.

Because people across the board look down on those who hold opposing opinions. In some cases its perfectly legitimate i.e. condemning bigotry and racism. In others, its not.

And never mind that the entire American right wing media universe is built on looking down on, and on contempt and hatred for, anything that threatens the dominance of traditional white christian society.

I do have to laugh reading that piece again though at the couple of lads who reckoned Trump was all talk when it came to deportations and anti-Muslim rhetoric. I wonder if they felt foolish when the reality of what he did and wanted to do hit?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2022, 04:56:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 24, 2022, 04:36:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 08:50:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 23, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 23, 2022, 05:23:30 PM
The Supreme Court nominee was asked what a woman was and she said she didn't know as she's not a biologist, when you participate in none sense like this you should be automatically disqualified.

It was a do-no-harm-to-your-nomination, avoid-the-gotcha-question non-answer to a grandstanding Senator, in this case trying to exploit transexuality (yet another conservative end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it outrage).

Not really criticizing the Senator in question per se, they ALL do it. And ALL Supreme Court nominees with a lick of sense avoid the gotcha question, whatever it is.

These hearings are a waste of time, and have been for years. They're just a public forum for politicians wanting to make a mark or shore up their political bono fides, especially in an election year. The success of the nominee is confirmed in advance unless the nominee steps in it big time. Hence they play it safe.
what is a woman is a gotcha question ? Ok are you a man or woman and how would you know

Gmac, if you want to pretend that was not a loaded gotcha question on transexuality, a complicated issue, knock yourself out.

But sure go ahead and give us your definition of a woman and how your dichotomous, black and white system takes into account every human being in existence.
did joe not say he wanted a woman of color for his vp and then he said he wanted a woman of color for the Supreme Court so I agree with joe it's a female of the human species, other people may call themselves a woman and that's fine but I'm not playing along .

So it's fine, but you're not playing along?

Well then it's not fine, is it? Especially as you're the one getting your knickers in a twist over the issue.
if she's a woman of color but doesn't know what a woman is how is she acceptable as a candidate?  according to herself she may not even be a woman, this is why this type of bs is ridiculous and needs to be called out every time you see it and playing along just leads to more insanity.

The options are:

1.   She doesn't know if she is a woman.
2.   She knows she is a woman, but is unwilling to engage in an ill-informed, pointless public "debate" with a grandstanding anti-LGBTQ Senator whose real question is "are trans-females also women".

Are we back to schoolchild level of analysis?

BTW, I'm pretty sure there have been one or two transgender discussion threads. I'm sure you can resurrect those if you need to expound on these issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2022, 05:12:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 04:40:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2022, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 02:16:54 PM
And on the right if you don't deny the dignity and humanity of transgender people, you're a deviant commie out to destroy the fabric of society.

Most sensible people are struggling with this issue and don't align with either those who want to jump straight to young kids being given hormonal or surgical treatments or those who want to deny the existence of transgenderism.

Which is why Jackson was correct to punt on Blackburn's question.


You've brought up Trump getting elected due to "Democrats accusing people of being racists for disagreeing with them" before. It didn't make sense then. It doesn't now. If you vote for Trump based on racial issues, at least have the balls to admit that it is because you like his in-your-face bigotry.

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Believe whatever you want. You need to get out of your bubble

You've posted that before.

And as I'm pretty sure I responded last time you posted about people voting for Trump because they felt elites were "talking down to them", they should grow the f**k up and welcome to the real world.

Because people across the board look down on those who hold opposing opinions. In some cases its perfectly legitimate i.e. condemning bigotry and racism. In others, its not.

And never mind that the entire American right wing media universe is built on looking down on, and on contempt and hatred for, anything that threatens the dominance of traditional white christian society.

I do have to laugh reading that piece again though at the couple of lads who reckoned Trump was all talk when it came to deportations and anti-Muslim rhetoric. I wonder if they felt foolish when the reality of what he did and wanted to do hit?


You just don't get it

Telling someone they're a bigot and a racist because they're not 100% on board with the most extreme positions of the Democratic Party is asinine and  should cost them votes

Maybe the Democrats are the ones who need to grow the fvck up and realize that elections aren't won on Twitter. Maybe they should stop pandering to the lunatic fringe and scolding everyone who isn't on board with them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 24, 2022, 05:41:36 PM
FFS I'm not on board with anything remotely close to 100% of the "most extreme positions of the Democratic Party".

Yet I don't ever recall being labeled a bigot or racist.

Perhaps because I'm not glued to Fox News or listening to the late Rush Limbaugh and his continuing impersonators hype and exaggerate and fearmonger about every outlandish tweet and every cartoonish caricature of liberals that they can think up.

And at least in the Democratic Party they ARE the lunatic fringe. Last I checked, we elected a moderate president despite the choice of a socialist. Here in NYC we went with a former police captain (and former Republican) for mayor over several fairly lefty progressives.

In the Republican Party and the conservative movement in general, the lunatics, led by Trump, are the mainstream centre of the party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 24, 2022, 09:08:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 05:41:36 PM
FFS I'm not on board with anything remotely close to 100% of the "most extreme positions of the Democratic Party".

Yet I don't ever recall being labeled a bigot or racist.

Perhaps because I'm not glued to Fox News or listening to the late Rush Limbaugh and his continuing impersonators hype and exaggerate and fearmonger about every outlandish tweet and every cartoonish caricature of liberals that they can think up.

And at least in the Democratic Party they ARE the lunatic fringe. Last I checked, we elected a moderate president despite the choice of a socialist. Here in NYC we went with a former police captain (and former Republican) for mayor over several fairly lefty progressives.

In the Republican Party and the conservative movement in general, the lunatics, led by Trump, are the mainstream centre of the party.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/25/us/politics/ruy-teixeira-democrats.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2022, 12:37:07 AM
The Donald has sued every democrat and their mothers for the Russian collusion hoax , grab your popcorn.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2022, 09:51:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 24, 2022, 09:08:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 24, 2022, 05:41:36 PM
FFS I'm not on board with anything remotely close to 100% of the "most extreme positions of the Democratic Party".

Yet I don't ever recall being labeled a bigot or racist.

Perhaps because I'm not glued to Fox News or listening to the late Rush Limbaugh and his continuing impersonators hype and exaggerate and fearmonger about every outlandish tweet and every cartoonish caricature of liberals that they can think up.

And at least in the Democratic Party they ARE the lunatic fringe. Last I checked, we elected a moderate president despite the choice of a socialist. Here in NYC we went with a former police captain (and former Republican) for mayor over several fairly lefty progressives.

In the Republican Party and the conservative movement in general, the lunatics, led by Trump, are the mainstream centre of the party.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/25/us/politics/ruy-teixeira-democrats.html

Ok. And?

Biden himself has said this kind of stuff. It's partly why he was elected. Same with Adams in NYC.

Come back to me when the GOP dumps Trump and the election fraud fraud and the white grievance shit and resumes being a normal right wing party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2022, 09:53:25 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2022, 12:37:07 AM
The Donald has sued every democrat and their mothers for the Russian collusion hoax , grab your popcorn.

Yeah, that will be a rip roaring success for him.
Is he going to turn over documents and records to the defenses, assuming it even goes that far?
Will he dare to be deposed or cross examined?
This is not Trump's usual legal scenario where he uses his money to outlast and beat small contractors he's trying to avoid paying for work done.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2022, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2022, 09:53:25 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2022, 12:37:07 AM
The Donald has sued every democrat and their mothers for the Russian collusion hoax , grab your popcorn.

Yeah, that will be a rip roaring success for him.
Is he going to turn over documents and records to the defenses, assuming it even goes that far?
Will he dare to be deposed or cross examined?
This is not Trump's usual legal scenario where he uses his money to outlast and beat small contractors he's trying to avoid paying for work done.
let's see what happens he's taking a chance messing with the Clinton crime family .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2022, 03:14:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2022, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2022, 09:53:25 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2022, 12:37:07 AM
The Donald has sued every democrat and their mothers for the Russian collusion hoax , grab your popcorn.

Yeah, that will be a rip roaring success for him.
Is he going to turn over documents and records to the defenses, assuming it even goes that far?
Will he dare to be deposed or cross examined?
This is not Trump's usual legal scenario where he uses his money to outlast and beat small contractors he's trying to avoid paying for work done.
let's see what happens he's taking a chance messing with the Clinton crime family .

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on March 25, 2022, 05:16:25 PM
No surprise that Trump's lawsuit against Clinton is based on a conspiracy.
Surely this is a case for Sid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2022, 05:56:16 PM
Speaking of the bould Sidney, anyone catch the Bob Woodward story on Justice Clarence Thomas's wife pushing then WH Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, via text exchanges, to plough full steam ahead in getting Sidney to be appointed to lead the official legal team to "unleash the Kraken"?

Strangely enough, perhaps, her husband was the only dissenting vote on the Supreme Court ruling which told Trump he couldn't block the National Archives from releasing WH records to the January 6th committee. Which is where the records of the text messages, which also show her embracing some other crazy Q Anon shit, came from.

Not the first time either that questions have been raised about her connection to cases coming in front of the court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 25, 2022, 08:49:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2022, 05:56:16 PM
Speaking of the bould Sidney, anyone catch the Bob Woodward story on Justice Clarence Thomas's wife pushing then WH Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, via text exchanges, to plough full steam ahead in getting Sidney to be appointed to lead the official legal team to "unleash the Kraken"?

Strangely enough, perhaps, her husband was the only dissenting vote on the Supreme Court ruling which told Trump he couldn't block the National Archives from releasing WH records to the January 6th committee. Which is where the records of the text messages, which also show her embracing some other crazy Q Anon shit, came from.

Not the first time either that questions have been raised about her connection to cases coming in front of the court.

If what's reported is true, it raises very serious questions and merits formal investigation.

Regarding his ruling on that particular case, while shocking on face value, according to a conservative guest on MSNBC today, that ruling is directly in line with how he has ruled in similar cases in the past
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on March 25, 2022, 09:29:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2022, 05:56:16 PM
Speaking of the bould Sidney, anyone catch the Bob Woodward story on Justice Clarence Thomas's wife pushing then WH Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, via text exchanges, to plough full steam ahead in getting Sidney to be appointed to lead the official legal team to "unleash the Kraken"?

Strangely enough, perhaps, her husband was the only dissenting vote on the Supreme Court ruling which told Trump he couldn't block the National Archives from releasing WH records to the January 6th committee. Which is where the records of the text messages, which also show her embracing some other crazy Q Anon shit, came from.

Not the first time either that questions have been raised about her connection to cases coming in front of the court.
I just have an image of the Kraken unleashed, riding in on the ghost of Hugo Chavez.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 26, 2022, 09:58:30 PM
Bad couple of days for joe first he said us troops would be in Ukraine
Then food shortages were on the way
Today Putin can't remain in power
All walked back by white house staff , like I've said 100 times joe should be retired and at home permanently not trying to start ww3.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 26, 2022, 11:40:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2022, 09:58:30 PM
Bad couple of days for joe first he said us troops would be in Ukraine
Then food shortages were on the way
Today Putin can't remain in power
All walked back by white house staff , like I've said 100 times joe should be retired and at home permanently not trying to start ww3.

100 per cent agree. Next president should be under age of 60.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 27, 2022, 12:15:47 AM
Funny the majority of recent wars were started by Republican Presidents
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 27, 2022, 02:01:10 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 27, 2022, 12:15:47 AM
Funny the majority of recent wars were started by Republican Presidents

Well to say Kuwait and Afghanistan were "started" by the United States is questionable to say the least

Iraq-that's a different kettle of fish and Based on what happened there, I think we will find it increasingly hard to recruit the required numbers  going forward

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-07-12/joining-the-military-doesn-t-appeal-to-enough-young-americans

Whether you like Joe or Mike Pense, both of them had sons who were deployed as did Hillary's VP, Tim Kaine.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on March 27, 2022, 02:20:02 AM
Garry Kasparov rows solidly  behind President Biden's speech

After the White House backpedalled on comments by president Joe Biden that appeared to call for regime change in Russia, prominent Putin critic and chess grandmaster Garry Kasparov has called the US administration "pathetic".

When a regime is repressive, murderous, dictatorial, and led by someone who has committed war crimes in multiple countries, including his own, what else should be hoped for and worked toward than regime change?" he wrote in the first of a series of tweets.

"When the President is right, the White House should stick with him instead of fumbling to apologize to a murderous dictator for speaking the truth. It's pathetic," he continued.

"Biden isn't Trump, requiring an English to English translator! No dictator is legitimate. Don't backpedal when you are right and in the right. Don't play diplomatic games with a mass murderer."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on March 27, 2022, 07:03:28 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 26, 2022, 11:40:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2022, 09:58:30 PM
Bad couple of days for joe first he said us troops would be in Ukraine
Then food shortages were on the way
Today Putin can't remain in power
All walked back by white house staff , like I've said 100 times joe should be retired and at home permanently not trying to start ww3.

100 per cent agree. Next president should be under age of 60.

It is embarrassing to say the least.
Needless to say the liberal media will get a new sudden case of amnesia and by tomorrow it will indeed be forgotten about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2022, 05:04:11 PM
(https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/5ISN5VLMEZHIDIFP3G7FO3US7E.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2022, 05:05:32 PM
(https://www.nj.com/resizer/RXRVF8MnL0deGqIVnAR82WUdQfM=/1280x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/7IAF3RNTJBHCBKP3V3DBNZGHBE.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 28, 2022, 05:07:01 PM
(https://claytoonz.files.wordpress.com/2022/02/cnn02272022.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 28, 2022, 11:40:14 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 27, 2022, 07:03:28 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 26, 2022, 11:40:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 26, 2022, 09:58:30 PM
Bad couple of days for joe first he said us troops would be in Ukraine
Then food shortages were on the way
Today Putin can't remain in power
All walked back by white house staff , like I've said 100 times joe should be retired and at home permanently not trying to start ww3.

100 per cent agree. Next president should be under age of 60.

It is embarrassing to say the least.
Needless to say the liberal media will get a new sudden case of amnesia and by tomorrow it will indeed be forgotten about.
joe got amnesia too said none of those things were said at all .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on March 29, 2022, 01:28:54 AM
Functionally senile but not mentally and emotionally deranged and that matters in a time of international crisis, such are the low standards on offer in the USA.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on March 29, 2022, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 29, 2022, 01:28:54 AM
Functionally senile but not mentally and emotionally deranged and that matters in a time of international crisis, such are the low standards on offer in the USA.

Joe might come out with the odd gaffe but he's a brilliant, experienced politician who's doing a great job in a crisis situation. It's just great to have such a caring decent, experienced person in there who cares about people instead of someone like Trump who the presidency as an opportunity for his family to make millions. It's also really important Joe is there to keep Johnson under pressure re the protocol. Trump would already have screwed Ireland to get a lucrative trade deal with britain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: joemamas on March 29, 2022, 02:08:19 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 29, 2022, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 29, 2022, 01:28:54 AM
Functionally senile but not mentally and emotionally deranged and that matters in a time of international crisis, such are the low standards on offer in the USA.

Joe might come out with the odd gaffe but he's a brilliant, experienced politician who's doing a great job in a crisis situation. It's just great to have such a caring decent, experienced person in there who cares about people instead of someone like Trump who the presidency as an opportunity for his family to make millions. It's also really important Joe is there to keep Johnson under pressure re the protocol. Trump would already have screwed Ireland to get a lucrative trade deal with britain.

ok Lenny
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 29, 2022, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 29, 2022, 02:08:19 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 29, 2022, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 29, 2022, 01:28:54 AM
Functionally senile but not mentally and emotionally deranged and that matters in a time of international crisis, such are the low standards on offer in the USA.

Joe might come out with the odd gaffe but he's a brilliant, experienced politician who's doing a great job in a crisis situation. It's just great to have such a caring decent, experienced person in there who cares about people instead of someone like Trump who the presidency as an opportunity for his family to make millions. It's also really important Joe is there to keep Johnson under pressure re the protocol. Trump would already have screwed Ireland to get a lucrative trade deal with britain.

ok Lenny

If the Ukrainians weren't fighting to the death, Joe wouldn't be looking anywhere as good as he looks right now

I agree that Joe is an experienced operator, but my God, if Trump had made a quarter of the gaffes Joe has over the past week......we'd never hear the end of it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 29, 2022, 05:45:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 29, 2022, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 29, 2022, 02:08:19 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 29, 2022, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 29, 2022, 01:28:54 AM
Functionally senile but not mentally and emotionally deranged and that matters in a time of international crisis, such are the low standards on offer in the USA.

Joe might come out with the odd gaffe but he's a brilliant, experienced politician who's doing a great job in a crisis situation. It's just great to have such a caring decent, experienced person in there who cares about people instead of someone like Trump who the presidency as an opportunity for his family to make millions. It's also really important Joe is there to keep Johnson under pressure re the protocol. Trump would already have screwed Ireland to get a lucrative trade deal with britain.

ok Lenny

If the Ukrainians weren't fighting to the death, Joe wouldn't be looking anywhere as good as he looks right now

I agree that Joe is an experienced operator, but my God, if Trump had made a quarter of the gaffes Joe has over the past week......we'd never hear the end of it
he has to bring cheat notes for the simplest questions when confronted by the media
The real question is whose actually running the country, blinken, Sullivan , Jill , good forbid Nancy .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 29, 2022, 08:43:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 29, 2022, 05:45:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 29, 2022, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 29, 2022, 02:08:19 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 29, 2022, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 29, 2022, 01:28:54 AM
Functionally senile but not mentally and emotionally deranged and that matters in a time of international crisis, such are the low standards on offer in the USA.

Joe might come out with the odd gaffe but he's a brilliant, experienced politician who's doing a great job in a crisis situation. It's just great to have such a caring decent, experienced person in there who cares about people instead of someone like Trump who the presidency as an opportunity for his family to make millions. It's also really important Joe is there to keep Johnson under pressure re the protocol. Trump would already have screwed Ireland to get a lucrative trade deal with britain.

ok Lenny

If the Ukrainians weren't fighting to the death, Joe wouldn't be looking anywhere as good as he looks right now

I agree that Joe is an experienced operator, but my God, if Trump had made a quarter of the gaffes Joe has over the past week......we'd never hear the end of it
he has to bring cheat notes for the simplest questions when confronted by the media
The real question is whose actually running the country, blinken, Sullivan , Jill , good forbid Nancy .

There is actually a deep state.....and they're running it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 29, 2022, 11:06:38 PM
Would the democrats be cheering general milley if he was contacting Russia about a possible chemical weapon attack by US military in Ukraine like joe said might happen?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on March 30, 2022, 06:54:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 29, 2022, 11:06:38 PM
Would the democrats be cheering general milley if he was contacting Russia about a possible chemical weapon attack by US military in Ukraine like joe said might happen?

See Russia Today are calling for regime change in USA to help their "partner" Trump back into power. Russian media calling trump their partner is a phrase which will haunt trump going forward.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2022, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: lenny on March 30, 2022, 06:54:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 29, 2022, 11:06:38 PM
Would the democrats be cheering general milley if he was contacting Russia about a possible chemical weapon attack by US military in Ukraine like joe said might happen?

See Russia Today are calling for regime change in USA to help their "partner" Trump back into power. Russian media calling trump their partner is a phrase which will haunt trump going forward.

Lenny

The Democrats famous "dossier" is full of false information Fed to them by Russian intelligence so I guess one could say that the Democrats the ones who colluded with Russia to influence  the election in 2016

Secondly, Trump provided weapons to Ukraine that Obama wouldn't-Obama limited his aid to defensive weapons . If Trump hadn't given them these specific weapons they would have been rolled by the Russians in a couple of days

Thirdly-under Obama, our NATO partners were paying a fraction of what they were obliged to pay-tell me how that strengthened NATO ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on March 30, 2022, 11:37:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2022, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: lenny on March 30, 2022, 06:54:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 29, 2022, 11:06:38 PM
Would the democrats be cheering general milley if he was contacting Russia about a possible chemical weapon attack by US military in Ukraine like joe said might happen?

See Russia Today are calling for regime change in USA to help their "partner" Trump back into power. Russian media calling trump their partner is a phrase which will haunt trump going forward.

Lenny

The Democrats famous "dossier" is full of false information Fed to them by Russian intelligence so I guess one could say that the Democrats the ones who colluded with Russia to influence  the election in 2016

Secondly, Trump provided weapons to Ukraine that Obama wouldn't-Obama limited his aid to defensive weapons . If Trump hadn't given them these specific weapons they would have been rolled by the Russians in a couple of days

Thirdly-under Obama, our NATO partners were paying a fraction of what they were obliged to pay-tell me how that strengthened NATO ?

Have we hit a complete low point for US politics? Trump asked on live tv for his good friend Putin to release dirt on Biden to help Trump. That has to be treasonous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2022, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 30, 2022, 11:37:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2022, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: lenny on March 30, 2022, 06:54:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 29, 2022, 11:06:38 PM
Would the democrats be cheering general milley if he was contacting Russia about a possible chemical weapon attack by US military in Ukraine like joe said might happen?

See Russia Today are calling for regime change in USA to help their "partner" Trump back into power. Russian media calling trump their partner is a phrase which will haunt trump going forward.

Lenny

The Democrats famous "dossier" is full of false information Fed to them by Russian intelligence so I guess one could say that the Democrats the ones who colluded with Russia to influence  the election in 2016

Secondly, Trump provided weapons to Ukraine that Obama wouldn't-Obama limited his aid to defensive weapons . If Trump hadn't given them these specific weapons they would have been rolled by the Russians in a couple of days

Thirdly-under Obama, our NATO partners were paying a fraction of what they were obliged to pay-tell me how that strengthened NATO ?

Have we hit a complete low point for US politics? Trump asked on live tv for his good friend Putin to release dirt on Biden to help Trump. That has to be treasonous.

It's disgusting

I'm just can believe an American politician would ask a foreign power to dig up dirt on an opponent

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/hillary-clinton-and-ukraine-11569881729

Hillary Clinton and Ukraine
A letter released Monday raises questions beyond the Bidens.


By James Freeman
Sept. 30, 2019 6:15 pm ET

Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton at Georgetown University on Friday.
PHOTO: WIN MCNAMEE/GETTY IMAGES
The Biden clan still needs to explain why a vice president's son was enjoying a $50,000-per-month gig for which his principal qualification appears to have been his last name. But Joe Biden isn't the only pillar of the Democratic establishment who won't enjoy the new spotlight on American relations with Ukraine. And President Donald Trump isn't the only one who wants a fuller accounting of that country's role in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

In a letter released on Monday morning, Republican senators Chuck Grassley of Iowa and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin ask U.S. Attorney General William Barr if he's trying to answer the lingering questions:

We write to follow up on Senator Grassley's July 20, 2017 letter, which highlighted brazen efforts by the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign to use the government of Ukraine for the express purpose of finding negative information on then candidate Trump in order to undermine his campaign. That letter also highlighted news reports that, during the 2016 presidential election, "Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump" and did so by "disseminat[ing] documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggest[ing] they were investigating the matter[.]" Ukrainian officials also reportedly "helped Clinton's allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers."
The senators aren't relying on reports from conservative bloggers. The quotations come from a 2017 story in Politico, hardly a pro-Trump outfit. "Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire," read the headline on the article by Kenneth P. Vogel and David Stern. "Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton," said the subhead of the article, which was published shortly before Mr. Trump's inauguration.

The authors reported that Ukrainian government officials "helped Clinton's allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers" with the goal of "advancing the narrative that Trump's campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine's foe to the east, Russia."

With the benefit of hindsight and the results of the Mueller investigation, it's now clear that there was no evidence of Trump campaign collusion with Russia. What is not clear and what demands further investigation is how this baseless claim managed to consume the first two years of an American presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2022, 02:08:02 PM
Imagine using cheat notes

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_center,h_675,pg_1,q_80,w_1200/vscp0djaq7zvozecnxwt.jpg)
(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/pDUsJD7n2Ec2p8Ln218j-YpVuJ8=/800x594/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/IDHLA45G5NDRTHZWVKC2NUHWVY.JPG)
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7b739abef7c5b32cad770055be4c773cf0e85834/918_0_1919_2400/master/1919.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=18e11dd13fbc121ffd16481ab53f934b)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on March 30, 2022, 02:31:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2022, 02:08:02 PM
Imagine using cheat notes

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_center,h_675,pg_1,q_80,w_1200/vscp0djaq7zvozecnxwt.jpg)
(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/pDUsJD7n2Ec2p8Ln218j-YpVuJ8=/800x594/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/IDHLA45G5NDRTHZWVKC2NUHWVY.JPG)
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7b739abef7c5b32cad770055be4c773cf0e85834/918_0_1919_2400/master/1919.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=18e11dd13fbc121ffd16481ab53f934b)

He needed those cheat sheets because he hasn't trumps world beating recall eg the time he remembered person, woman, man, tv, camera. That was stunning, scientists had never seen a memory feat like it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2022, 03:07:04 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2022, 02:08:02 PM
Imagine using cheat notes

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_center,h_675,pg_1,q_80,w_1200/vscp0djaq7zvozecnxwt.jpg)
(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/pDUsJD7n2Ec2p8Ln218j-YpVuJ8=/800x594/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/IDHLA45G5NDRTHZWVKC2NUHWVY.JPG)
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7b739abef7c5b32cad770055be4c773cf0e85834/918_0_1919_2400/master/1919.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=18e11dd13fbc121ffd16481ab53f934b)

You won't find me defending Trump

He was explicitly told not to go there by to his advisors, but ignored him

But the faux outrage about the delay in the arms shipment by the very people who, when working for Obama, flat out refused to send the same arms to Ukraine is political theater at its finest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 03:22:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2022, 02:08:02 PM
Imagine using cheat notes

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_center,h_675,pg_1,q_80,w_1200/vscp0djaq7zvozecnxwt.jpg)
(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/pDUsJD7n2Ec2p8Ln218j-YpVuJ8=/800x594/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/IDHLA45G5NDRTHZWVKC2NUHWVY.JPG)
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7b739abef7c5b32cad770055be4c773cf0e85834/918_0_1919_2400/master/1919.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=18e11dd13fbc121ffd16481ab53f934b)
hurl entering the fake news zone as a content creator ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 30, 2022, 07:06:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 03:22:18 PM
hurl entering the fake news zone as a content creator ?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/22/hear-you-people-amazed-trumps-shooting/362419002/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 07:06:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 03:22:18 PM
hurl entering the fake news zone as a content creator ?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/22/hear-you-people-amazed-trumps-shooting/362419002/
the stuff in the other post is so obviously fake
As for trump needing notes for a interaction where empathy is involved that would not surprise me at all. Needing notes about regime change and chemical attacks are quite different.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 30, 2022, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 07:06:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 03:22:18 PM
hurl entering the fake news zone as a content creator ?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/22/hear-you-people-amazed-trumps-shooting/362419002/
the stuff in the other post is so obviously fake
As for trump needing notes for a interaction where empathy is involved that would not surprise me at all. Needing notes about regime change and chemical attacks are quite different.

The notes in the story I linked to match the notes in the picture that gabriel hurl posted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on March 30, 2022, 09:55:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2022, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 30, 2022, 11:37:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2022, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: lenny on March 30, 2022, 06:54:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 29, 2022, 11:06:38 PM
Would the democrats be cheering general milley if he was contacting Russia about a possible chemical weapon attack by US military in Ukraine like joe said might happen?

See Russia Today are calling for regime change in USA to help their "partner" Trump back into power. Russian media calling trump their partner is a phrase which will haunt trump going forward.

Lenny

The Democrats famous "dossier" is full of false information Fed to them by Russian intelligence so I guess one could say that the Democrats the ones who colluded with Russia to influence  the election in 2016

Secondly, Trump provided weapons to Ukraine that Obama wouldn't-Obama limited his aid to defensive weapons . If Trump hadn't given them these specific weapons they would have been rolled by the Russians in a couple of days

Thirdly-under Obama, our NATO partners were paying a fraction of what they were obliged to pay-tell me how that strengthened NATO ?

Have we hit a complete low point for US politics? Trump asked on live tv for his good friend Putin to release dirt on Biden to help Trump. That has to be treasonous.

It's disgusting

I'm just can believe an American politician would ask a foreign power to dig up dirt on an opponent

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/hillary-clinton-and-ukraine-11569881729

Hillary Clinton and Ukraine
A letter released Monday raises questions beyond the Bidens.


By James Freeman
Sept. 30, 2019 6:15 pm ET

Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton at Georgetown University on Friday.
PHOTO: WIN MCNAMEE/GETTY IMAGES
The Biden clan still needs to explain why a vice president's son was enjoying a $50,000-per-month gig for which his principal qualification appears to have been his last name. But Joe Biden isn't the only pillar of the Democratic establishment who won't enjoy the new spotlight on American relations with Ukraine. And President Donald Trump isn't the only one who wants a fuller accounting of that country's role in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

In a letter released on Monday morning, Republican senators Chuck Grassley of Iowa and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin ask U.S. Attorney General William Barr if he's trying to answer the lingering questions:

We write to follow up on Senator Grassley's July 20, 2017 letter, which highlighted brazen efforts by the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign to use the government of Ukraine for the express purpose of finding negative information on then candidate Trump in order to undermine his campaign. That letter also highlighted news reports that, during the 2016 presidential election, "Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump" and did so by "disseminat[ing] documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggest[ing] they were investigating the matter[.]" Ukrainian officials also reportedly "helped Clinton's allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers."
The senators aren't relying on reports from conservative bloggers. The quotations come from a 2017 story in Politico, hardly a pro-Trump outfit. "Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire," read the headline on the article by Kenneth P. Vogel and David Stern. "Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton," said the subhead of the article, which was published shortly before Mr. Trump's inauguration.

The authors reported that Ukrainian government officials "helped Clinton's allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers" with the goal of "advancing the narrative that Trump's campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine's foe to the east, Russia."

With the benefit of hindsight and the results of the Mueller investigation, it's now clear that there was no evidence of Trump campaign collusion with Russia. What is not clear and what demands further investigation is how this baseless claim managed to consume the first two years of an American presidency.

Very interesting. What's your views on Ivanka earning 640 million as an unqualified adviser to her father. Nothing to see there I assume.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 10:45:10 PM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 07:06:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 03:22:18 PM
hurl entering the fake news zone as a content creator ?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/22/hear-you-people-amazed-trumps-shooting/362419002/
the stuff in the other post is so obviously fake
As for trump needing notes for a interaction where empathy is involved that would not surprise me at all. Needing notes about regime change and chemical attacks are quite different.

The notes in the story I linked to match the notes in the picture that gabriel hurl posted.
then there all fake
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2022, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 30, 2022, 09:55:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2022, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 30, 2022, 11:37:35 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 30, 2022, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: lenny on March 30, 2022, 06:54:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 29, 2022, 11:06:38 PM
Would the democrats be cheering general milley if he was contacting Russia about a possible chemical weapon attack by US military in Ukraine like joe said might happen?

See Russia Today are calling for regime change in USA to help their "partner" Trump back into power. Russian media calling trump their partner is a phrase which will haunt trump going forward.

Lenny

The Democrats famous "dossier" is full of false information Fed to them by Russian intelligence so I guess one could say that the Democrats the ones who colluded with Russia to influence  the election in 2016

Secondly, Trump provided weapons to Ukraine that Obama wouldn't-Obama limited his aid to defensive weapons . If Trump hadn't given them these specific weapons they would have been rolled by the Russians in a couple of days

Thirdly-under Obama, our NATO partners were paying a fraction of what they were obliged to pay-tell me how that strengthened NATO ?

Have we hit a complete low point for US politics? Trump asked on live tv for his good friend Putin to release dirt on Biden to help Trump. That has to be treasonous.

It's disgusting

I'm just can believe an American politician would ask a foreign power to dig up dirt on an opponent

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/hillary-clinton-and-ukraine-11569881729

Hillary Clinton and Ukraine
A letter released Monday raises questions beyond the Bidens.


By James Freeman
Sept. 30, 2019 6:15 pm ET

Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton at Georgetown University on Friday.
PHOTO: WIN MCNAMEE/GETTY IMAGES
The Biden clan still needs to explain why a vice president's son was enjoying a $50,000-per-month gig for which his principal qualification appears to have been his last name. But Joe Biden isn't the only pillar of the Democratic establishment who won't enjoy the new spotlight on American relations with Ukraine. And President Donald Trump isn't the only one who wants a fuller accounting of that country's role in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

In a letter released on Monday morning, Republican senators Chuck Grassley of Iowa and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin ask U.S. Attorney General William Barr if he's trying to answer the lingering questions:

We write to follow up on Senator Grassley's July 20, 2017 letter, which highlighted brazen efforts by the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign to use the government of Ukraine for the express purpose of finding negative information on then candidate Trump in order to undermine his campaign. That letter also highlighted news reports that, during the 2016 presidential election, "Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump" and did so by "disseminat[ing] documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggest[ing] they were investigating the matter[.]" Ukrainian officials also reportedly "helped Clinton's allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers."
The senators aren't relying on reports from conservative bloggers. The quotations come from a 2017 story in Politico, hardly a pro-Trump outfit. "Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire," read the headline on the article by Kenneth P. Vogel and David Stern. "Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton," said the subhead of the article, which was published shortly before Mr. Trump's inauguration.

The authors reported that Ukrainian government officials "helped Clinton's allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers" with the goal of "advancing the narrative that Trump's campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine's foe to the east, Russia."

With the benefit of hindsight and the results of the Mueller investigation, it's now clear that there was no evidence of Trump campaign collusion with Russia. What is not clear and what demands further investigation is how this baseless claim managed to consume the first two years of an American presidency.

Very interesting. What's your views on Ivanka earning 640 million as an unqualified adviser to her father. Nothing to see there I assume.

I don't think you'll find evidence of me ever sticking up for or trying to justify anything the Trumps did.

They had no business working in the White House-zero

The fact is, they were wealthy before they entered the White House and would have been making big money during that time regardless of whether they worked there or not

https://fortune.com/2021/02/03/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-income-hit-white-house/amp/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/?sh=1ace83462f42
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 30, 2022, 11:16:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 10:45:10 PM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 07:06:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 03:22:18 PM
hurl entering the fake news zone as a content creator ?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/22/hear-you-people-amazed-trumps-shooting/362419002/
the stuff in the other post is so obviously fake
As for trump needing notes for a interaction where empathy is involved that would not surprise me at all. Needing notes about regime change and chemical attacks are quite different.

The notes in the story I linked to match the notes in the picture that gabriel hurl posted.
then there all fake

It is easier for you to label things as fake than face reality
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 31, 2022, 12:31:43 AM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 11:16:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 10:45:10 PM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 07:06:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2022, 03:22:18 PM
hurl entering the fake news zone as a content creator ?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/22/hear-you-people-amazed-trumps-shooting/362419002/
the stuff in the other post is so obviously fake
As for trump needing notes for a interaction where empathy is involved that would not surprise me at all. Needing notes about regime change and chemical attacks are quite different.

The notes in the story I linked to match the notes in the picture that gabriel hurl posted.
then there all fake

It is easier for you to label things as fake than face reality
trump has come and gone I hope I would like desantis in 2024
You boys on here have nothing without trump same as the democrats, joe is the worst president ever and the administration is a joke , a brutal world outlook on the horizon and a plethora of failed policies already 14 months into this clown show ., that's reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 31, 2022, 12:43:34 AM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 11:16:46 PM
It is easier for you to label things as fake than face reality

that lad hasn't faced reality in a long time

this is probably photoshopped

(https://media.radiocms.net/uploads/2019/11/20175428/PA-48470111-1024x683.jpg)

This article is probably fake too - https://www.newstalk.com/news/pictures-trump-reveals-large-handwritten-notes-speaking-reporters-927335

And this video has been faked by C-SPAN - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VspIIHuXqdw


They are all in on it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 31, 2022, 01:01:28 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 31, 2022, 12:43:34 AM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2022, 11:16:46 PM
It is easier for you to label things as fake than face reality

that lad hasn't faced reality in a long time

this is probably photoshopped

(https://media.radiocms.net/uploads/2019/11/20175428/PA-48470111-1024x683.jpg)

This article is probably fake too - https://www.newstalk.com/news/pictures-trump-reveals-large-handwritten-notes-speaking-reporters-927335

And this video has been faked by C-SPAN - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VspIIHuXqdw


They are all in on it
joe is the president now not trump , joes a joke and a total disaster not just for the USA but for the world, the clown in Canada not far behind him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2022, 12:17:38 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/30/dnc-clinton-campaign-fine-dossier-spending-disclosure-00021910?_amp=true


Nothing to see here.....move along people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 08, 2022, 11:27:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

LOL

People believe whatever they want....as long as it suits their agenda
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 09, 2022, 01:22:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 08, 2022, 11:27:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

LOL

People believe whatever they want....as long as it suits their agenda
the "insurrection " next
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 11, 2022, 05:51:57 AM
What are the conservatives on about now with this "Cancel Disney" BS?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 11, 2022, 07:44:38 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 11, 2022, 05:51:57 AM
What are the conservatives on about now with this "Cancel Disney" BS?

Liberals want to teach kindergarten children about sexuality.
Florida has banned this.
Disney have taken offence to this and say Florida is now a cold house for LGBTQ.

They still stream in Saudi Arabia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2022, 06:31:52 AM
"DeSantis Blasts Disney's Seven Dwarfs For Pushing Pro-Math Agenda"

Borrowitz
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 22, 2022, 12:27:57 PM
Sure they've been pushing that math agenda for decades, what with their "seven" dwarves, and their "101" dalmatians.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2022, 02:22:07 PM
Biden administration so rattled by musk buying twitter and not being able to censor opinions they have set up a new ministry of truth division in government to censor all misinformation and lies on social media platforms, ccp would be proud of them , was that president xi in the Easter bunny suit a few weeks ago ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 29, 2022, 02:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2022, 02:22:07 PM
Biden administration so rattled by musk buying twitter and not being able to censor opinions they have set up a new ministry of truth division in government to censor all misinformation and lies on social media platforms, ccp would be proud of them , was that president xi in the Easter bunny suit a few weeks ago ?

LOL-the woman in charge, Nina Jankowicz, dismissed the Hunter Biden laptop story as fake during the 2020 election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 29, 2022, 04:10:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 29, 2022, 02:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 29, 2022, 02:22:07 PM
Biden administration so rattled by musk buying twitter and not being able to censor opinions they have set up a new ministry of truth division in government to censor all misinformation and lies on social media platforms, ccp would be proud of them , was that president xi in the Easter bunny suit a few weeks ago ?

LOL-the woman in charge, Nina Jankowicz, dismissed the Hunter Biden laptop story as fake during the 2020 election
embarrassing as was mayorkas  performance in front of congress yesterday, a bald headed and faced liar
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2022, 11:39:46 PM
Big miscalculation by Trump's illegitimate Supreme Court justices in shooting down abortion rights. This is gonna backfire on the conservative ideologues, big time. I don't think the usual midterm Democratic voter apathy is going to be a thing this year (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-abortion-may-now-motivate-democrats-more-than-republicans/), not after this abomination of a ruling.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 04, 2022, 02:35:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2022, 11:39:46 PM
Big miscalculation by Trump's illegitimate Supreme Court justices in shooting down abortion rights. This is gonna backfire on the conservative ideologues, big time. I don't think the usual midterm Democratic voter apathy is going to be a thing this year (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-abortion-may-now-motivate-democrats-more-than-republicans/), not after this abomination of a ruling.
go have a cup of tea .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 04, 2022, 12:47:30 PM
Watched 4 hours at the Capitol the other day...  2 things that came out of it

There are some stupid people about

Christ, its a miracle that there wasn't more deaths that day, though I suspect if that was a BLM march on the capitol we'd have a different result ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2022, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2022, 11:39:46 PM
Big miscalculation by Trump's illegitimate Supreme Court justices in shooting down abortion rights. This is gonna backfire on the conservative ideologues, big time. I don't think the usual midterm Democratic voter apathy is going to be a thing this year (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-abortion-may-now-motivate-democrats-more-than-republicans/), not after this abomination of a ruling.

Hopefully not, but people and the news move on to other things very quickly. (e.g. there'll probably be another Fox News caravan or something to scare the old bigots).

But, this won't end with abortion. If the ruling comes out as written in the draft with it based on unenumerated rights, the likes of gay rights and contraception will be next to fall at the federal level, despite Alito's insistence that it is solely about abortion.

Then its really going to matter which state you and your kids live in.

And if the GOP legislates all of this stuff federally, this country is heading down the road towards a break-up, IMO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2022, 02:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2022, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2022, 11:39:46 PM
Big miscalculation by Trump's illegitimate Supreme Court justices in shooting down abortion rights. This is gonna backfire on the conservative ideologues, big time. I don't think the usual midterm Democratic voter apathy is going to be a thing this year (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-abortion-may-now-motivate-democrats-more-than-republicans/), not after this abomination of a ruling.

Hopefully not, but people and the news move on to other things very quickly. (e.g. there'll probably be another Fox News caravan or something to scare the old bigots).

But, this won't end with abortion. If the ruling comes out as written in the draft with it based on unenumerated rights, the likes of gay rights and contraception will be next to fall at the federal level, despite Alito's insistence that it is solely about abortion.

Then its really going to matter which state you and your kids live in.

And if the GOP legislates all of this stuff federally, this country is heading down the road towards a break-up, IMO.

If the "ruling" stands as written, then several Justices flat out lied during their confirmation hearings

Secondly-(I don't know who leaked it) but whoever they are, they have dealt a serious blow to the institution of the Supreme Court.

Thirdly-why can't people just mind their own fvckin business. If you are against abortion, then don't have one. It's a decision made between and woman and her doctor (and God if he/she actually exists)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 04, 2022, 03:16:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2022, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2022, 11:39:46 PM
Big miscalculation by Trump's illegitimate Supreme Court justices in shooting down abortion rights. This is gonna backfire on the conservative ideologues, big time. I don't think the usual midterm Democratic voter apathy is going to be a thing this year (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-abortion-may-now-motivate-democrats-more-than-republicans/), not after this abomination of a ruling.

Hopefully not, but people and the news move on to other things very quickly. (e.g. there'll probably be another Fox News caravan or something to scare the old bigots).

But, this won't end with abortion. If the ruling comes out as written in the draft with it based on unenumerated rights, the likes of gay rights and contraception will be next to fall at the federal level, despite Alito's insistence that it is solely about abortion.

Then its really going to matter which state you and your kids live in.

And if the GOP legislates all of this stuff federally, this country is heading down the road towards a break-up, IMO.
the blue run states are the new confederate states of America
Refuse to follow federal law
Obsessed with race and color
Want 2 classes , very rich and poor working class (slaves)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2022, 05:06:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2022, 02:28:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2022, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2022, 11:39:46 PM
Big miscalculation by Trump's illegitimate Supreme Court justices in shooting down abortion rights. This is gonna backfire on the conservative ideologues, big time. I don't think the usual midterm Democratic voter apathy is going to be a thing this year (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-abortion-may-now-motivate-democrats-more-than-republicans/), not after this abomination of a ruling.

Hopefully not, but people and the news move on to other things very quickly. (e.g. there'll probably be another Fox News caravan or something to scare the old bigots).

But, this won't end with abortion. If the ruling comes out as written in the draft with it based on unenumerated rights, the likes of gay rights and contraception will be next to fall at the federal level, despite Alito's insistence that it is solely about abortion.

Then its really going to matter which state you and your kids live in.

And if the GOP legislates all of this stuff federally, this country is heading down the road towards a break-up, IMO.

If the "ruling" stands as written, then several Justices flat out lied during their confirmation hearings

Secondly-(I don't know who leaked it) but whoever they are, they have dealt a serious blow to the institution of the Supreme Court.

Thirdly-why can't people just mind their own fvckin business. If you are against abortion, then don't have one. It's a decision made between and woman and her doctor (and God if he/she actually exists)

Agree.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 05, 2022, 06:19:12 PM
Was the new justice involved in this controversy?
She probably wasn't because she doesn't know what a woman is or is not a biologist  and therefore would not be able to form an opinion on the subject ,See how these idiotic positions should not be tolerated in such important positions and pandering to idiots who pedal them is moronic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2022, 07:24:24 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 05, 2022, 07:06:59 PM
f**k all to contribute as usual

Its like a mumbling, angry old drunk, sitting alone, spewing nonsense, at the end of the bar. Best ignored.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 05, 2022, 07:45:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2022, 07:24:24 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 05, 2022, 07:06:59 PM
f**k all to contribute as usual

Its like a mumbling, angry old drunk, sitting alone, spewing nonsense, at the end of the bar. Best ignored.
don't like it when the opinions you guys support are exposed as moronic or lies .
Newsom gave a big speech yesterday where he said if men could get pregnant these rulings wouldn't happen , if he was at an event next week and  the crowd was lgbtq he would say of course men can get pregnant and he doesn't know what a woman is . I'm just pointing out how ridiculous they are .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 05, 2022, 09:54:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2022, 07:24:24 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 05, 2022, 07:06:59 PM
f**k all to contribute as usual

Its like a mumbling, angry old drunk, sitting alone, spewing nonsense, at the end of the bar. Best ignored.

I've had him on ignore for ages. Best thing to do for your sanity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 05, 2022, 11:29:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 05, 2022, 09:54:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2022, 07:24:24 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 05, 2022, 07:06:59 PM
f**k all to contribute as usual

Its like a mumbling, angry old drunk, sitting alone, spewing nonsense, at the end of the bar. Best ignored.

I've had him on ignore for ages. Best thing to do for your sanity.
of course you have because you cannot debate the ridiculous positions the politicians you vote for have . Ditto for the 2 other guys .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 06, 2022, 12:29:27 AM
I gave up on this thread cause of his rambling, if this is the every day attitude  of a irish immigrant in America, am quite glad they can keep him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on May 06, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Whilst you can argue the rights and wrongs of abortion you'd have to admit that from a strictly legal standpoint Roe v Wade was very shaky. To extrapolate that the right to privacy infers a right to have an abortion is quite a substantial leap. Also considering that the right to privacy is an extrapolation in itself. Issues like abortion should not be decided by a small cabal of judges. They should be legislated for at state or federal level and sorted out through the wheels of democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 06, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 06, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Whilst you can argue the rights and wrongs of abortion you'd have to admit that from a strictly legal standpoint Roe v Wade was very shaky. To extrapolate that the right to privacy infers a right to have an abortion is quite a substantial leap. Also considering that the right to privacy is an extrapolation in itself. Issues like abortion should not be decided by a small cabal of judges. They should be legislated for at state or federal level and sorted out through the wheels of democracy.
each state will decide for itself , as usual most people only getting the cnn side of the story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 06, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 06, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Whilst you can argue the rights and wrongs of abortion you'd have to admit that from a strictly legal standpoint Roe v Wade was very shaky. To extrapolate that the right to privacy infers a right to have an abortion is quite a substantial leap. Also considering that the right to privacy is an extrapolation in itself. Issues like abortion should not be decided by a small cabal of judges. They should be legislated for at state or federal level and sorted out through the wheels of democracy.
each state will decide for itself , as usual most people only getting the cnn side of the story.

Even RBG said it was a poorly crafted law (and she was the biggest supporter of reproductive rights that you'd ever meet)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2022, 05:40:15 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 06, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Whilst you can argue the rights and wrongs of abortion you'd have to admit that from a strictly legal standpoint Roe v Wade was very shaky. To extrapolate that the right to privacy infers a right to have an abortion is quite a substantial leap. Also considering that the right to privacy is an extrapolation in itself. Issues like abortion should not be decided by a small cabal of judges. They should be legislated for at state or federal level and sorted out through the wheels of democracy.

On the legal underpinnings of Roe V Wade, it depends who you listen to. I've read convincing arguments on both sides.

As for the judges, lots of issues in American life are and have been decided by judges, for better or worse. The Supreme Court ended segregation in schools, for example, which turbo-charged the overall struggle for civil rights. Had black people been waiting for those state governments and municipalities to legislate segregation out of existence, they would have been waiting a long time.

The courts HAVE gotten too significant, politically, in the US, at all levels. Organizations now pick and choose where and when they bring politically-influenced cases depending on which judges or judges they want ruling on their case (so-called judge shopping). I don't what the way out that is though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 06, 2022, 06:12:11 PM
Conservative obstructionism in Washington has made it all but impossible to pass even the most popular of legislation. Big issues are increasingly being decided by the judicial branch in the absence of any action in the legislative branch. The big danger now is that the minority rule in the legislative branch is now spilling over into minority rule in the judicial branch, with illegitimate justices, appointed by a president who lost the popular vote, holding too much sway. Unfortunately we're stuck with the conservative agent, Joe Manchin, in the senate blocking all Democratic attempts to fix the problem, and we're stuck with him for a couple of years.

The overturning of Roe will hopefully snap Democratic voters out of it for the midterms. To lose the House to the Rethuglicans at this stage would be a catastrophe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on May 15, 2022, 09:20:12 AM
Another one exercising his "Constitoootinal rights"

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0515/1298046-buffalo-shooting-10-dead/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 17, 2022, 07:15:50 PM
Another "law-abiding gun owner" right up to the moment when he started shooting, no doubt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on May 18, 2022, 12:38:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 06, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 06, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Whilst you can argue the rights and wrongs of abortion you'd have to admit that from a strictly legal standpoint Roe v Wade was very shaky. To extrapolate that the right to privacy infers a right to have an abortion is quite a substantial leap. Also considering that the right to privacy is an extrapolation in itself. Issues like abortion should not be decided by a small cabal of judges. They should be legislated for at state or federal level and sorted out through the wheels of democracy.
each state will decide for itself , as usual most people only getting the cnn side of the story.

Even RBG said it was a poorly crafted law (and she was the biggest supporter of reproductive rights that you'd ever meet)
The rights and wrongs of the actual Rode Wade law have been debated and my personal opinion is that RBG nailed it, but the question now is not about quality of law, it is about women's right to choose, not the medic giving permission or a replacement theory obsessed dogmatic judea christian religious motivated state parliament deciding. On occasion it up to the Supreme Court to decide what the universal (USA) rights are for USA citizens regardless of the opinion of the state legislature with a majority in opposition.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 18, 2022, 05:24:43 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2022, 12:38:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 06, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 06, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Whilst you can argue the rights and wrongs of abortion you'd have to admit that from a strictly legal standpoint Roe v Wade was very shaky. To extrapolate that the right to privacy infers a right to have an abortion is quite a substantial leap. Also considering that the right to privacy is an extrapolation in itself. Issues like abortion should not be decided by a small cabal of judges. They should be legislated for at state or federal level and sorted out through the wheels of democracy.
each state will decide for itself , as usual most people only getting the cnn side of the story.

Even RBG said it was a poorly crafted law (and she was the biggest supporter of reproductive rights that you'd ever meet)
The rights and wrongs of the actual Rode Wade law have been debated and my personal opinion is that RBG nailed it, but the question now is not about quality of law, it is about women's right to choose, not the medic giving permission or a replacement theory obsessed dogmatic judea christian religious motivated state parliament deciding. On occasion it up to the Supreme Court to decide what the universal (USA) rights are for USA citizens regardless of the opinion of the state legislature with a majority in opposition.

I am going to unashamedly steal this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 18, 2022, 03:53:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 18, 2022, 05:24:43 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2022, 12:38:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 06, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 06, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Whilst you can argue the rights and wrongs of abortion you'd have to admit that from a strictly legal standpoint Roe v Wade was very shaky. To extrapolate that the right to privacy infers a right to have an abortion is quite a substantial leap. Also considering that the right to privacy is an extrapolation in itself. Issues like abortion should not be decided by a small cabal of judges. They should be legislated for at state or federal level and sorted out through the wheels of democracy.
each state will decide for itself , as usual most people only getting the cnn side of the story.

Even RBG said it was a poorly crafted law (and she was the biggest supporter of reproductive rights that you'd ever meet)
The rights and wrongs of the actual Rode Wade law have been debated and my personal opinion is that RBG nailed it, but the question now is not about quality of law, it is about women's right to choose, not the medic giving permission or a replacement theory obsessed dogmatic judea christian religious motivated state parliament deciding. On occasion it up to the Supreme Court to decide what the universal (USA) rights are for USA citizens regardless of the opinion of the state legislature with a majority in opposition.

I am going to unashamedly steal this.
the current administration doesn't care about what the Supreme Court decides they don't follow federal law that doesn't suit their looney agenda.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on May 18, 2022, 07:22:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2022, 12:38:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 06, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 06, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Whilst you can argue the rights and wrongs of abortion you'd have to admit that from a strictly legal standpoint Roe v Wade was very shaky. To extrapolate that the right to privacy infers a right to have an abortion is quite a substantial leap. Also considering that the right to privacy is an extrapolation in itself. Issues like abortion should not be decided by a small cabal of judges. They should be legislated for at state or federal level and sorted out through the wheels of democracy.
each state will decide for itself , as usual most people only getting the cnn side of the story.

Even RBG said it was a poorly crafted law (and she was the biggest supporter of reproductive rights that you'd ever meet)
The rights and wrongs of the actual Rode Wade law have been debated and my personal opinion is that RBG nailed it, but the question now is not about quality of law, it is about women's right to choose, not the medic giving permission or a replacement theory obsessed dogmatic judea christian religious motivated state parliament deciding. On occasion it up to the Supreme Court to decide what the universal (USA) rights are for USA citizens regardless of the opinion of the state legislature with a majority in opposition.

A incorrect summation. You're essentially arguing that 4 people have the power to decide what is legal and what should be illegal for 329 million Americans. The Supreme Court Justices are either bound by the constitution and the study of law or they aren't. Should enough people feel the laws are wrong then they have the capacity to change state law, federal law and even the constitution itself. State law is not an unchallengeable doctrine, there are several ways by which it may be overruled by the majority through democratic process.

The Supreme Court are not declaring state law to be paramount to rulings of the court, rather they are declaring (presumably until we see the decision) that the right to privacy does not infer the right to have an abortion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 19, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 18, 2022, 07:22:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2022, 12:38:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 06, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 06, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Whilst you can argue the rights and wrongs of abortion you'd have to admit that from a strictly legal standpoint Roe v Wade was very shaky. To extrapolate that the right to privacy infers a right to have an abortion is quite a substantial leap. Also considering that the right to privacy is an extrapolation in itself. Issues like abortion should not be decided by a small cabal of judges. They should be legislated for at state or federal level and sorted out through the wheels of democracy.
each state will decide for itself , as usual most people only getting the cnn side of the story.

Even RBG said it was a poorly crafted law (and she was the biggest supporter of reproductive rights that you'd ever meet)
The rights and wrongs of the actual Rode Wade law have been debated and my personal opinion is that RBG nailed it, but the question now is not about quality of law, it is about women's right to choose, not the medic giving permission or a replacement theory obsessed dogmatic judea christian religious motivated state parliament deciding. On occasion it up to the Supreme Court to decide what the universal (USA) rights are for USA citizens regardless of the opinion of the state legislature with a majority in opposition.

A incorrect summation. You're essentially arguing that 4 people have the power to decide what is legal and what should be illegal for 329 million Americans. The Supreme Court Justices are either bound by the constitution and the study of law or they aren't. Should enough people feel the laws are wrong then they have the capacity to change state law, federal law and even the constitution itself. State law is not an unchallengeable doctrine, there are several ways by which it may be overruled by the majority through democratic process.

The Supreme Court are not declaring state law to be paramount to rulings of the court, rather they are declaring (presumably until we see the decision) that the right to privacy does not infer the right to have an abortion.

So whose opinions on the limits of the constitution and the study of law are the "correct" ones?

The other five people?

And like I said before, where would black people have ended up if the Supreme Court said "not our problem, you just have to wait until society gets a little less racist and changes the laws"? Or gay people for that matter.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 19, 2022, 05:10:25 PM
192 House Rethuglicans voted against a $28 million package to tackle the shortage of baby formula. "Pro life" my ass. The conservatives are willing to let babies starve to prove an ideological point. We have nothing in common with these people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on May 19, 2022, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
And like I said before, where would black people have ended up if the Supreme Court said "not our problem, you just have to wait until society gets a little less racist and changes the laws"? Or gay people for that matter.

That's a facetious argument. The 14th amendment clearly identifies that persons cannot be denied equal protection before the law. Therefore Brown v Board and Lawrence V Texas were standing on fairly solid ground when those decisions were made. Clear direction and intention could be drawn upon from the constitution and the authors of the amendment.

Roe v Wade is different and you've admitted as much yourself. There is no use in continued attempts to draw a false equivalence to desegregation.
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2022, 05:40:15 PM

On the legal underpinnings of Roe V Wade, it depends who you listen to. I've read convincing arguments on both sides.


Irrespective of your view on desegregation, it could be clearly extrapolated from the constitution and so the court ruled in it's favour. Likewise, irrespective of your view on abortion, it's fairly difficult to extrapolate from the constitution a legal right to have one, so it should come as no surprise to anyone that Roe v Wade may be overturned. The prevailing (and mistaken) belief in the current discussion seems to be that because the supreme court ruled in favour of liberal ideology previously they should always do so. This is incorrect. Supreme Court justices should leave their party affiliation, religion and political opinions at the door of the supreme court. They are there to decide upon the specific legal arguments, not the broader social outcome.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 20, 2022, 02:23:43 AM
It would be grand if the US supreme court justices were all robots who could parse an issue and look to the constitution in a cold, objective, scientific manner, but they're not. In the real world they all bring their own biases, influences and political motivations to bear in their job, which is partly why it can't be left up to just one of them. This so-called "calling balls and strikes" approach is rhetorical nonsense, but even if one does subscribe to originalism or textualism at least as a guiding principle, why is that objectively better than the "living document" approach? And if we are so concerned about the founders and what was thought at the time a law or amendment was passed, one thing we know for sure about the founders is that they were very concerned about tyranny of the majority (although these days its more the over-represented minority which is the problem) and the dangers of populism. And let's not forget that the Warren court was abhorred by the right for its supposed "judicial activism", starting with Brown. That arguments have since been made for the Brown decision from an originalist perspective doesn't change how they were perceived for years. They and subsequent courts correctly got out ahead of the government and the electorate on a whole range of issues, not just segregation, and people's lives have benefited from that.

Personally, I'm perfectly fine with the constitution being interpreted through a modern lens. Hopefully Alito's decision doesn't lead to the rollback of many of the gains society has reaped from that approach. Otherwise, good luck winning back any of those rights with the Republican party holding so much power.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2022, 06:49:40 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2022, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
And like I said before, where would black people have ended up if the Supreme Court said "not our problem, you just have to wait until society gets a little less racist and changes the laws"? Or gay people for that matter.

That's a facetious argument. The 14th amendment clearly identifies that persons cannot be denied equal protection before the law. Therefore Brown v Board and Lawrence V Texas were standing on fairly solid ground when those decisions were made. Clear direction and intention could be drawn upon from the constitution and the authors of the amendment.

Roe v Wade is different and you've admitted as much yourself. There is no use in continued attempts to draw a false equivalence to desegregation.
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2022, 05:40:15 PM

On the legal underpinnings of Roe V Wade, it depends who you listen to. I've read convincing arguments on both sides.


Irrespective of your view on desegregation, it could be clearly extrapolated from the constitution and so the court ruled in it's favour. Likewise, irrespective of your view on abortion, it's fairly difficult to extrapolate from the constitution a legal right to have one, so it should come as no surprise to anyone that Roe v Wade may be overturned. The prevailing (and mistaken) belief in the current discussion seems to be that because the supreme court ruled in favour of liberal ideology previously they should always do so. This is incorrect. Supreme Court justices should leave their party affiliation, religion and political opinions at the door of the supreme court. They are there to decide upon the specific legal arguments, not the broader social outcome.

So they should respect legal precedent?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on May 20, 2022, 05:18:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2022, 06:49:40 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2022, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
And like I said before, where would black people have ended up if the Supreme Court said "not our problem, you just have to wait until society gets a little less racist and changes the laws"? Or gay people for that matter.

That's a facetious argument. The 14th amendment clearly identifies that persons cannot be denied equal protection before the law. Therefore Brown v Board and Lawrence V Texas were standing on fairly solid ground when those decisions were made. Clear direction and intention could be drawn upon from the constitution and the authors of the amendment.

Roe v Wade is different and you've admitted as much yourself. There is no use in continued attempts to draw a false equivalence to desegregation.
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2022, 05:40:15 PM

On the legal underpinnings of Roe V Wade, it depends who you listen to. I've read convincing arguments on both sides.


Irrespective of your view on desegregation, it could be clearly extrapolated from the constitution and so the court ruled in it's favour. Likewise, irrespective of your view on abortion, it's fairly difficult to extrapolate from the constitution a legal right to have one, so it should come as no surprise to anyone that Roe v Wade may be overturned. The prevailing (and mistaken) belief in the current discussion seems to be that because the supreme court ruled in favour of liberal ideology previously they should always do so. This is incorrect. Supreme Court justices should leave their party affiliation, religion and political opinions at the door of the supreme court. They are there to decide upon the specific legal arguments, not the broader social outcome.

So they should respect legal precedent?

Do you mean by accepting Roe v Wade as precedent and not overturn it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2022, 09:00:09 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2022, 05:18:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2022, 06:49:40 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2022, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
And like I said before, where would black people have ended up if the Supreme Court said "not our problem, you just have to wait until society gets a little less racist and changes the laws"? Or gay people for that matter.

That's a facetious argument. The 14th amendment clearly identifies that persons cannot be denied equal protection before the law. Therefore Brown v Board and Lawrence V Texas were standing on fairly solid ground when those decisions were made. Clear direction and intention could be drawn upon from the constitution and the authors of the amendment.

Roe v Wade is different and you've admitted as much yourself. There is no use in continued attempts to draw a false equivalence to desegregation.
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2022, 05:40:15 PM

On the legal underpinnings of Roe V Wade, it depends who you listen to. I've read convincing arguments on both sides.


Irrespective of your view on desegregation, it could be clearly extrapolated from the constitution and so the court ruled in it's favour. Likewise, irrespective of your view on abortion, it's fairly difficult to extrapolate from the constitution a legal right to have one, so it should come as no surprise to anyone that Roe v Wade may be overturned. The prevailing (and mistaken) belief in the current discussion seems to be that because the supreme court ruled in favour of liberal ideology previously they should always do so. This is incorrect. Supreme Court justices should leave their party affiliation, religion and political opinions at the door of the supreme court. They are there to decide upon the specific legal arguments, not the broader social outcome.

So they should respect legal precedent?

Do you mean by accepting Roe v Wade as precedent and not overturn it?

Yes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on May 20, 2022, 11:11:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2022, 09:00:09 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2022, 05:18:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2022, 06:49:40 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2022, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
And like I said before, where would black people have ended up if the Supreme Court said "not our problem, you just have to wait until society gets a little less racist and changes the laws"? Or gay people for that matter.

That's a facetious argument. The 14th amendment clearly identifies that persons cannot be denied equal protection before the law. Therefore Brown v Board and Lawrence V Texas were standing on fairly solid ground when those decisions were made. Clear direction and intention could be drawn upon from the constitution and the authors of the amendment.

Roe v Wade is different and you've admitted as much yourself. There is no use in continued attempts to draw a false equivalence to desegregation.
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2022, 05:40:15 PM

On the legal underpinnings of Roe V Wade, it depends who you listen to. I've read convincing arguments on both sides.


Irrespective of your view on desegregation, it could be clearly extrapolated from the constitution and so the court ruled in it's favour. Likewise, irrespective of your view on abortion, it's fairly difficult to extrapolate from the constitution a legal right to have one, so it should come as no surprise to anyone that Roe v Wade may be overturned. The prevailing (and mistaken) belief in the current discussion seems to be that because the supreme court ruled in favour of liberal ideology previously they should always do so. This is incorrect. Supreme Court justices should leave their party affiliation, religion and political opinions at the door of the supreme court. They are there to decide upon the specific legal arguments, not the broader social outcome.

So they should respect legal precedent?

Do you mean by accepting Roe v Wade as precedent and not overturn it?

Yes

By such logic, Scott V Stanford shouldn't have been over-ruled and the Supreme Court decision that slavery is lawful in all US states would still be standing. Similarly Brown V Board of Education could never have ruled that segregation is unlawful because Plessy v Ferguson had found that segregation was constitutional.

The argument that justice is simply blindly following legal precedent is a terrible one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 21, 2022, 01:15:27 AM
As the country's economy goes down the toilet the left has its eye on the looney tunes agenda as usual if this three is anything to go by .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2022, 02:34:44 PM
https://youtu.be/GGLsceURTrM

Someone sent me this link of Sen Harley grilling Mayorkas about the disinformation board.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Loughshore2022 on May 21, 2022, 09:58:33 PM
The abortion argument is a complex one for me, on one hand I'm an incel bachelor so it is not like they are aborting my offspring. On the other hand the double standards irritate me, if a woman aborts she is praised and called responsible, if a man decides not to pay child support and not be a father he is ridiculed and called irresponsible. Women get a get out of jail card whereas men don't. There is also hypocrisy in the argument about when human life starts. It seems when a woman wants a baby life starts in the womb but when she decides to abort it is only a "clump of cells".

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 23, 2022, 03:42:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 21, 2022, 01:15:27 AM
As the country's economy goes down the toilet the left has its eye on the looney tunes agenda as usual if this three is anything to go by .

Can you please explain how the country's economy is going down the toilet?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 23, 2022, 09:33:14 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 23, 2022, 03:42:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 21, 2022, 01:15:27 AM
As the country's economy goes down the toilet the left has its eye on the looney tunes agenda as usual if this three is anything to go by .

Can you please explain how the country's economy is going down the toilet?

Conservatives aren't interested in facts. "The economy is going down the toilet" is one of those unfounded talking points they keep repeating. Like "California is bankrupt" when it has a $68 billion surplus.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on May 23, 2022, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: omochain on May 23, 2022, 03:42:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 21, 2022, 01:15:27 AM
As the country's economy goes down the toilet the left has its eye on the looney tunes agenda as usual if this three is anything to go by .

Can you please explain how the country's economy is going down the toilet?

In the throes of the longest bear market since 1932, more interest rate hikes to come and inversion of the yield curve. From an economists view these are big red flashing warnings.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 24, 2022, 12:36:16 AM
US unemployment rate:

(https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-states-unemployment-rate.png?s=usurtot&v=202205061241V20220312)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 24, 2022, 01:51:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 24, 2022, 12:36:16 AM
US unemployment rate:

(https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-states-unemployment-rate.png?s=usurtot&v=202205061241V20220312)
Unemployment is a backward looking metric. Inflation is out of control. There is evidence of wage price spirals where expectations of inflation are built into negotiations  The only solution to this is higher interest rates. Debt is very high. Say 5% would wipe a lot of borrowers out. Debt wasn't priced for now. Markets don't believe rates are going to increase.
"
The worst thing that ever could happen happened after the worst thing that ever could happen happened after the worst thing that ever could happen happened.  "

Carlton Douglas Ridenhour, AKA Chuck D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2022, 08:35:48 PM
9% inflation for may , worst in 40 years
gasoline price at an all time high as is crime and meanwhile the government are wasting time and money on an "insurrection" that had no weapons and one protester was shot .
This made for tv show won't save their asses in November.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on June 10, 2022, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2022, 08:35:48 PM
9% inflation for may , worst in 40 years
gasoline price at an all time high as is crime and meanwhile the government are wasting time and money on an "insurrection" that had no weapons and one protester was shot .
This made for tv show won't save their asses in November.

Lol, we should all forget and forgive an attempted coup. Hopefully justice will be done and Trump will will go down for a long time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 10, 2022, 09:37:50 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 10, 2022, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2022, 08:35:48 PM
9% inflation for may , worst in 40 years
gasoline price at an all time high as is crime and meanwhile the government are wasting time and money on an "insurrection" that had no weapons and one protester was shot .
This made for tv show won't save their asses in November.

Lol, we should all forget and forgive an attempted coup. Hopefully justice will be done and Trump will will go down for a long time.
a coup with no weapons ? Lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 11, 2022, 11:45:53 AM
Quote from: lenny on June 10, 2022, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 10, 2022, 08:35:48 PM
9% inflation for may , worst in 40 years
gasoline price at an all time high as is crime and meanwhile the government are wasting time and money on an "insurrection" that had no weapons and one protester was shot .
This made for tv show won't save their asses in November.

Lol, we should all forget and forgive an attempted coup. Hopefully justice will be done and Trump will will go down for a long time.

Justice won't be done.

But it is absolutely vital that Trump be exposed and his coup attempt go on the record and be blasted to the heavens should they try and inflict his bigoted, corrupt, poison on the country again.

There is simply no reaching certain parties who are thick as a plank and view the riot as "just a walkthrough", but that doesn't mean that the gravity of what he attempted should just be allowed to fade without thorough investigation.

The GOP are perfectly within their rights to make the case that they could do a better job tackling inflation (although I've yet to hear anything at all from them), but they cannot at the same time be allowed to get away with their threats to democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2022, 01:52:51 AM
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1538272765022769154?s=20&t=pcf683Eqi6LgVhKFnBI5Zw

Naperville IL....crazy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 03:18:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2022, 01:52:51 AM
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1538272765022769154?s=20&t=pcf683Eqi6LgVhKFnBI5Zw

Naperville IL....crazy
mental illness and drug use at an all time high around the USA at the moment.
Time to get serious about criminal behavior and mental illness
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on June 19, 2022, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.

Biden has don quite a good job considering the hand he was dealt and the divided state of the country caused by the deliberate stoking of divisiveness by his predecessor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 03:34:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 19, 2022, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.

Biden has don quite a good job considering the hand he was dealt and the divided state of the country caused by the deliberate stoking of divisiveness by his predecessor.
just like riding a bike for joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 19, 2022, 05:15:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 19, 2022, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.

Biden has don quite a good job considering the hand he was dealt and the divided state of the country caused by the deliberate stoking of divisiveness by his predecessor.

Don't know if you live here but he's been a disaster (unfortunately)

The Republicans flipped an Hispanic District in TX that hasn't voted Red in a century

Border a shambles

Crime out of control

Gas/petrol all time high

Mayor Pete (who I had high hopes for) MIA

Failure to protect Supreme Court Justices

People are furious
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 19, 2022, 08:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 19, 2022, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.

Biden has don quite a good job considering the hand he was dealt and the divided state of the country caused by the deliberate stoking of divisiveness by his predecessor.

He's been mediocre enough, partly by being too passive.

Problems like inflation and petrol prices are things driven by much wider circumstance that he can do little about.

Ukraine he's doing fine, but then so that idiot Boris Johnson.

Just thank your lucky stars the orange wannabe dictator for life is marooned in Florida. I can only imagine the current mess if he was still in charge.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 19, 2022, 10:57:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2022, 08:49:10 PM
He's been mediocre enough, partly by being too passive.

Problems like inflation and petrol prices are things driven by much wider circumstance that he can do little about.

Ukraine he's doing fine, but then so that idiot Boris Johnson.

Just thank your lucky stars the orange wannabe dictator for life is marooned in Florida. I can only imagine the current mess if he was still in charge.

He'd be sending arms to the Russians. If he were smart enough to know how to do it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 20, 2022, 01:51:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2022, 08:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 19, 2022, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.

Biden has don quite a good job considering the hand he was dealt and the divided state of the country caused by the deliberate stoking of divisiveness by his predecessor.

He's been mediocre enough, partly by being too passive.

Problems like inflation and petrol prices are things driven by much wider circumstance that he can do little about.

Ukraine he's doing fine, but then so that idiot Boris Johnson.

Just thank your lucky stars the orange wannabe dictator for life is marooned in Florida. I can only imagine the current mess if he was still in charge.
j70 still in denial none of this stuff happened under trump it's happening now under joe Biden the worst president ever .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2022, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2022, 01:51:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2022, 08:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 19, 2022, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.

Biden has don quite a good job considering the hand he was dealt and the divided state of the country caused by the deliberate stoking of divisiveness by his predecessor.

He's been mediocre enough, partly by being too passive.

Problems like inflation and petrol prices are things driven by much wider circumstance that he can do little about.

Ukraine he's doing fine, but then so that idiot Boris Johnson.

Just thank your lucky stars the orange wannabe dictator for life is marooned in Florida. I can only imagine the current mess if he was still in charge.
j70 still in denial none of this stuff happened under trump it's happening now under joe Biden the worst president ever .

Serious unrest going to break out over Roe V Wade next week.

Housing market probably looking at a 30% correction on top of everything else going on

Mid terms coming up....if Republicans regain the House expect Joes last 2 years to be a complete $hit show
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on June 20, 2022, 08:41:06 AM
Still don't believe it was a genuine Coup attempt by Trump, primarily because there was no organisation behind it, where are the generals, police chiefs & politicians who were going to bat for him? Surely some would have been found by now. Trump just doesn't think consequences of his actions apply to him and he can do whatever he wants. He'll be even worse if he gets back in tho.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2022, 11:41:20 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 20, 2022, 08:41:06 AM
Still don't believe it was a genuine Coup attempt by Trump, primarily because there was no organisation behind it, where are the generals, police chiefs & politicians who were going to bat for him? Surely some would have been found by now. Trump just doesn't think consequences of his actions apply to him and he can do whatever he wants. He'll be even worse if he gets back in tho.

It was genuine. Just because there were enough good people in place, including at last, Mike Pence, to prevent it, doesn't mean it wasn't genuine.

Problem is he IS now putting the people in place around various states to thwart the outcomes of elections. Hopefully it still won't be enough to steal it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2022, 11:44:09 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2022, 01:51:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2022, 08:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 19, 2022, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.

Biden has don quite a good job considering the hand he was dealt and the divided state of the country caused by the deliberate stoking of divisiveness by his predecessor.

He's been mediocre enough, partly by being too passive.

Problems like inflation and petrol prices are things driven by much wider circumstance that he can do little about.

Ukraine he's doing fine, but then so that idiot Boris Johnson.

Just thank your lucky stars the orange wannabe dictator for life is marooned in Florida. I can only imagine the current mess if he was still in charge.
j70 still in denial none of this stuff happened under trump it's happening now under joe Biden the worst president ever .

Ok, I'll play this one last time.

Tell us Gmac: Why would inflation and petrol prices and so on NOT be an issue had Trump won?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2022, 11:46:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2022, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 20, 2022, 01:51:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 19, 2022, 08:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 19, 2022, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.

Biden has don quite a good job considering the hand he was dealt and the divided state of the country caused by the deliberate stoking of divisiveness by his predecessor.

He's been mediocre enough, partly by being too passive.

Problems like inflation and petrol prices are things driven by much wider circumstance that he can do little about.

Ukraine he's doing fine, but then so that idiot Boris Johnson.

Just thank your lucky stars the orange wannabe dictator for life is marooned in Florida. I can only imagine the current mess if he was still in charge.
j70 still in denial none of this stuff happened under trump it's happening now under joe Biden the worst president ever .

Serious unrest going to break out over Roe V Wade next week.

Housing market probably looking at a 30% correction on top of everything else going on

Mid terms coming up....if Republicans regain the House expect Joes last 2 years to be a complete $hit show

So the possible public response to Roe will be Biden's fault?

The housing market correction will be Biden's fault?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:03:57 PM
Who said that?

That's in addition to everything else that's going on at the moment

Chuck Schumer should be called to account for his public threats toward the SJC.

A person (with obvious mental illness) showed up at Justice Kavanaughs house with a gun

DOJ not enforcing a law about intimidating judges and White House (Jen Psaki) refusing to condemn protests outside the justices house

Democrats are an absolute disgrace and are as much or a greater threat to Democracy than Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 20, 2022, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:03:57 PM
Who said that?

That's in addition to everything else that's going on at the moment

Chuck Schumer should be called to account for his public threats toward the SJC.

A person (with obvious mental illness) showed up at Justice Kavanaughs house with a gun

DOJ not enforcing a law about intimidating judges and White House (Jen Psaki) refusing to condemn protests outside the justices house

Democrats are an absolute disgrace and are as much or a greater threat to Democracy than Trump

1.Schumer retracted his stupid and reckless comment (made more than two years ago) the following day.
2. Psaki has been gone from her WH post for more than a month. The WH has condemned any violence or threats against judges.
3. Garland has come out in support of boosting protection of judges and the would-be assassin has been charged with murder.
4. Trump has a list as long as ten arms (including stating the Capitol rioters might have a "point" when it comes to hanging Mike Pence), the rest of the GOP are giving either explicit or tacit support to his anti-democracy efforts, but as usual with you, Democrats and liberals are always worse. Suit yourself whitey. I've got better things to be doing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 20, 2022, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:03:57 PM
Who said that?

That's in addition to everything else that's going on at the moment

Chuck Schumer should be called to account for his public threats toward the SJC.

A person (with obvious mental illness) showed up at Justice Kavanaughs house with a gun

DOJ not enforcing a law about intimidating judges and White House (Jen Psaki) refusing to condemn protests outside the justices house

Democrats are an absolute disgrace and are as much or a greater threat to Democracy than Trump

1.Schumer retracted his stupid and reckless comment (made more than two years ago) the following day.
2. Psaki has been gone from her WH post for more than a month. The WH has condemned any violence or threats against judges.
3. Garland has come out in support of boosting protection of judges and the would-be assassin has been charged with murder.
4. Trump has a list as long as ten arms (including stating the Capitol rioters might have a "point" when it comes to hanging Mike Pence), the rest of the GOP are giving either explicit or tacit support to his anti-democracy efforts, but as usual with you, Democrats and liberals are always worse. Suit yourself whitey. I've got better things to be doing.

Keep twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to justify what they're doing

They leaked the ruling to gin up protests so they can energize the base in advance of the mid terms....something that has never happened in the history of the SJC

They don't give a fvck about anything other than staying in power

They should be ashamed of themselves

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/11/protest-justice-home-illegal/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 22, 2022, 08:55:08 PM
Florida certainly dodged a bullet electing Desantis and not Gillum who was just indicted on mass fraud , taking bribes and lying to fbi . The lord works in mysterious ways and hopefully Desantis can be our next president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2022, 12:40:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 20, 2022, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:03:57 PM
Who said that?

That's in addition to everything else that's going on at the moment

Chuck Schumer should be called to account for his public threats toward the SJC.

A person (with obvious mental illness) showed up at Justice Kavanaughs house with a gun

DOJ not enforcing a law about intimidating judges and White House (Jen Psaki) refusing to condemn protests outside the justices house

Democrats are an absolute disgrace and are as much or a greater threat to Democracy than Trump

1.Schumer retracted his stupid and reckless comment (made more than two years ago) the following day.
2. Psaki has been gone from her WH post for more than a month. The WH has condemned any violence or threats against judges.
3. Garland has come out in support of boosting protection of judges and the would-be assassin has been charged with murder.
4. Trump has a list as long as ten arms (including stating the Capitol rioters might have a "point" when it comes to hanging Mike Pence), the rest of the GOP are giving either explicit or tacit support to his anti-democracy efforts, but as usual with you, Democrats and liberals are always worse. Suit yourself whitey. I've got better things to be doing.

Keep twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to justify what they're doing

They leaked the ruling to gin up protests so they can energize the base in advance of the mid terms....something that has never happened in the history of the SJC

They don't give a fvck about anything other than staying in power

They should be ashamed of themselves

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/11/protest-justice-home-illegal/

How do you know they leaked the ruling?

I've heard just as many commentators, including conservatives, claim it likely came from the right wing to pressure any justices who would be wavering about overturning Roe.

But of course, to whitey, it HAS to be the evil Dems.

And of course you've zero to say about protests and harrassment from the right. Just this week we've had testimony from those women election workers in Georgia whose lives were made a living hell because of Trump's bullshit claims about a supposed suitcase full of ballots. Similarly for the Republican Arizona Speaker who had the temerity to not go along with replacing that states ballots with a slate that would give that state to Trump.

And you never have a word to say about the GOP and Mitch McConnell and their scorched earth tactics when it comes to political power, standing in the way of anything, absolutely anything, that would lead to meaningful, helpful change if it would be perceived to help a Democratic president.

Anything to say about the Texas GOP putting it in their official party platform this week that Biden is "acting president" and didn't win the election? Not power hunger issues there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 23, 2022, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 19, 2022, 05:15:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 19, 2022, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 19, 2022, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 19, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
Joe Bidens America has Covid vaccines for 6 months olds  (who don't need it ) but no baby formula.
Sums up the worst administration of all time .
Worse than the last one?
how are things globally and internally? make up your own mind.

Biden has don quite a good job considering the hand he was dealt and the divided state of the country caused by the deliberate stoking of divisiveness by his predecessor.

Don't know if you live here but he's been a disaster (unfortunately)

The Republicans flipped an Hispanic District in TX that hasn't voted Red in a century

Border a shambles

Crime out of control

Gas/petrol all time high

Mayor Pete (who I had high hopes for) MIA

Failure to protect Supreme Court Justices

People are furious
you forgot the Afghanistan debacle of a withdrawal, leaving 80b of weapons and aircraft  and the country is now experiencing near famine conditions after leaving it in turmoil.
Inflation is at 40 year high and is closer to 20% than the 8 the liars tell us
Closing keystone pipeline on day one and refuse to drill for oil but go begging all over the world for it.
Using fbi as a personal gestapo to go after political opponents ,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 23, 2022, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2022, 12:40:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 20, 2022, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:03:57 PM
Who said that?

That's in addition to everything else that's going on at the moment

Chuck Schumer should be called to account for his public threats toward the SJC.

A person (with obvious mental illness) showed up at Justice Kavanaughs house with a gun

DOJ not enforcing a law about intimidating judges and White House (Jen Psaki) refusing to condemn protests outside the justices house

Democrats are an absolute disgrace and are as much or a greater threat to Democracy than Trump

1.Schumer retracted his stupid and reckless comment (made more than two years ago) the following day.
2. Psaki has been gone from her WH post for more than a month. The WH has condemned any violence or threats against judges.
3. Garland has come out in support of boosting protection of judges and the would-be assassin has been charged with murder.
4. Trump has a list as long as ten arms (including stating the Capitol rioters might have a "point" when it comes to hanging Mike Pence), the rest of the GOP are giving either explicit or tacit support to his anti-democracy efforts, but as usual with you, Democrats and liberals are always worse. Suit yourself whitey. I've got better things to be doing.

Keep twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to justify what they're doing

They leaked the ruling to gin up protests so they can energize the base in advance of the mid terms....something that has never happened in the history of the SJC

They don't give a fvck about anything other than staying in power

They should be ashamed of themselves

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/11/protest-justice-home-illegal/

How do you know they leaked the ruling?

I've heard just as many commentators, including conservatives, claim it likely came from the right wing to pressure any justices who would be wavering about overturning Roe.

But of course, to whitey, it HAS to be the evil Dems.

And of course you've zero to say about protests and harrassment from the right. Just this week we've had testimony from those women election workers in Georgia whose lives were made a living hell because of Trump's bullshit claims about a supposed suitcase full of ballots. Similarly for the Republican Arizona Speaker who had the temerity to not go along with replacing that states ballots with a slate that would give that state to Trump.

And you never have a word to say about the GOP and Mitch McConnell and their scorched earth tactics when it comes to political power, standing in the way of anything, absolutely anything, that would lead to meaningful, helpful change if it would be perceived to help a Democratic president.

Anything to say about the Texas GOP putting it in their official party platform this week that Biden is "acting president" and didn't win the election? Not power hunger issues there?

Oh......you won't find me defending anything the Republicans did/are doing

My point is that the Democrats are are as big a shower of cvnts as the Republicans

They have assaulted democracy just as much as Mitch McConnell and Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 23, 2022, 08:57:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 23, 2022, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2022, 12:40:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 20, 2022, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 20, 2022, 12:03:57 PM
Who said that?

That's in addition to everything else that's going on at the moment

Chuck Schumer should be called to account for his public threats toward the SJC.

A person (with obvious mental illness) showed up at Justice Kavanaughs house with a gun

DOJ not enforcing a law about intimidating judges and White House (Jen Psaki) refusing to condemn protests outside the justices house

Democrats are an absolute disgrace and are as much or a greater threat to Democracy than Trump

1.Schumer retracted his stupid and reckless comment (made more than two years ago) the following day.
2. Psaki has been gone from her WH post for more than a month. The WH has condemned any violence or threats against judges.
3. Garland has come out in support of boosting protection of judges and the would-be assassin has been charged with murder.
4. Trump has a list as long as ten arms (including stating the Capitol rioters might have a "point" when it comes to hanging Mike Pence), the rest of the GOP are giving either explicit or tacit support to his anti-democracy efforts, but as usual with you, Democrats and liberals are always worse. Suit yourself whitey. I've got better things to be doing.

Keep twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to justify what they're doing

They leaked the ruling to gin up protests so they can energize the base in advance of the mid terms....something that has never happened in the history of the SJC

They don't give a fvck about anything other than staying in power

They should be ashamed of themselves

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/11/protest-justice-home-illegal/

How do you know they leaked the ruling?

I've heard just as many commentators, including conservatives, claim it likely came from the right wing to pressure any justices who would be wavering about overturning Roe.

But of course, to whitey, it HAS to be the evil Dems.

And of course you've zero to say about protests and harrassment from the right. Just this week we've had testimony from those women election workers in Georgia whose lives were made a living hell because of Trump's bullshit claims about a supposed suitcase full of ballots. Similarly for the Republican Arizona Speaker who had the temerity to not go along with replacing that states ballots with a slate that would give that state to Trump.

And you never have a word to say about the GOP and Mitch McConnell and their scorched earth tactics when it comes to political power, standing in the way of anything, absolutely anything, that would lead to meaningful, helpful change if it would be perceived to help a Democratic president.

Anything to say about the Texas GOP putting it in their official party platform this week that Biden is "acting president" and didn't win the election? Not power hunger issues there?

Oh......you won't find me defending anything the Republicans did/are doing

My point is that the Democrats are are as big a shower of cvnts as the Republicans

They have assaulted democracy just as much as Mitch McConnell and Trump

Yes, your point is plain. The facts don't back it up however. Believe me, I wish the GOP only did the same objectionable stuff the Dems do and that they return to being a normal party. For now, that ship has sailed. The 2024 election is looking like a horror show in the making for the US as this time Trump and his enablers WILL have the people in place to actually make a serious attempt at stealing it. I don't even want to imagine the trouble that will follow across the country if what Trump was planning in 2020 actually comes about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2022, 01:57:50 PM
Mo Brooks
Matt Gaetz
Andy Biggs
Louie Gohmert
Scott Perry
Marjorie Taylor Greene
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 24, 2022, 03:26:14 PM
Roe vs Wade overturned
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2022, 03:33:09 PM
Contraception
Same sex relationships
Same sex marriage

will all be going next
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Windmill abu on June 24, 2022, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2022, 03:33:09 PM
Contraception
Same sex relationships
Same sex marriage

will all be going next

No they wont. Because they aren't killing unborn children.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2022, 03:58:22 PM
Clarence Thomas said the decisions protecting these things should all be reconsidered.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on June 24, 2022, 04:02:06 PM
de santis has no chance if trump  runs i might be wrong but i think the trump cult is too strong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2022, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2022, 03:33:09 PM
Contraception
Same sex relationships
Same sex marriage

will all be going next
fever swamp seems to have switched locations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2022, 05:21:13 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2022, 03:58:22 PM
Clarence Thomas said the decisions protecting these things should all be reconsidered.

I notice he didn't put mixed race marriage in his list of things to be reconsidered
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2022, 05:45:19 PM
I'd say he was afraid of his life to.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2022, 06:04:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2022, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2022, 03:33:09 PM
Contraception
Same sex relationships
Same sex marriage

will all be going next
fever swamp seems to have switched locations

Clarence Thomas, highly revered conservative justice, is part of the fever swamp?

He's just saying the quiet part out loud and pointing the way.

The rest of the GOP would rather rabble rouse about drag queen story hours and child grooming than say what they really want.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 24, 2022, 06:20:31 PM
The states will decide their policies going forward and even the most strict ones will have a clause in there for rape or incest I would think .
The zeal with which some protesters have about this issue is bordering on demonic also my body my choice except if it's a new vaccine , total loons
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 25, 2022, 12:59:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2022, 06:20:31 PM
The states will decide their policies going forward and even the most strict ones will have a clause in there for rape or incest I would think .
The zeal with which some protesters have about this issue is bordering on demonic also my body my choice except if it's a new vaccine , total loons

That's extremely naive. Missouri has already outright banned abortion and is looking at contraception. A huge amount of rights derived from RvW's principle of privacy. The state has now awarded itself huge power over it's citizens. Everythimg from abortion to interracial marraige is up in the air.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on June 25, 2022, 01:12:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 25, 2022, 12:59:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2022, 06:20:31 PM
The states will decide their policies going forward and even the most strict ones will have a clause in there for rape or incest I would think .
The zeal with which some protesters have about this issue is bordering on demonic also my body my choice except if it's a new vaccine , total loons

That's extremely naive. Missouri has already outright banned abortion and is looking at contraception. A huge amount of rights derived from RvW's principle of privacy. The state has now awarded itself huge power over it's citizens. Everythimg from abortion to interracial marraige is up in the air.

Christ. You are proving his point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2022, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 25, 2022, 01:12:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 25, 2022, 12:59:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2022, 06:20:31 PM
The states will decide their policies going forward and even the most strict ones will have a clause in there for rape or incest I would think .
The zeal with which some protesters have about this issue is bordering on demonic also my body my choice except if it's a new vaccine , total loons

That's extremely naive. Missouri has already outright banned abortion and is looking at contraception. A huge amount of rights derived from RvW's principle of privacy. The state has now awarded itself huge power over it's citizens. Everythimg from abortion to interracial marraige is up in the air.

Christ. You are proving his point.

While a threat to interracial marriage is hyperbole, the threat to things like gay marriage, homosexual conduct and contraception is not. Clarence Thomas laid it out. Gay marriage has been federally legal for less than ten years. Abortion stood for 50.

And the underlying hostility of the American right to LGBTQ issues is still very significant. Whether its truck loads of "patriots" (i.e. white christian supremacists) travelling to inflict violence on pride parades, the attempts to intimidate libraries to take down pride decorations and get rid of drag queen book readings, the bullshit about "child grooming" we've been hearing over the past months, the will is there among the MAGA shower and their more brazen representatives to try to force gay people off the public stage and back into the closet. I guess its this year's critical race theory hype.

Let's hope the rest of the Supreme Court conservatives are true to their word (although ask Susan Collins and Joe Machin, who were shocked - shocked I tell ye  ;)- when the two boys voted to overturn Roe!) and they'll reject the cases when they reach their level (which they will).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 25, 2022, 05:07:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2022, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 25, 2022, 01:12:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 25, 2022, 12:59:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2022, 06:20:31 PM
The states will decide their policies going forward and even the most strict ones will have a clause in there for rape or incest I would think .
The zeal with which some protesters have about this issue is bordering on demonic also my body my choice except if it's a new vaccine , total loons

That's extremely naive. Missouri has already outright banned abortion and is looking at contraception. A huge amount of rights derived from RvW's principle of privacy. The state has now awarded itself huge power over it's citizens. Everythimg from abortion to interracial marraige is up in the air.

Christ. You are proving his point.

While a threat to interracial marriage is hyperbole, the threat to things like gay marriage, homosexual conduct and contraception is not. Clarence Thomas laid it out. Gay marriage has been federally legal for less than ten years. Abortion stood for 50.

And the underlying hostility of the American right to LGBTQ issues is still very significant. Whether its truck loads of "patriots" (i.e. white christian supremacists) travelling to inflict violence on pride parades, the attempts to intimidate libraries to take down pride decorations and get rid of drag queen book readings, the bullshit about "child grooming" we've been hearing over the past months, the will is there among the MAGA shower and their more brazen representatives to try to force gay people off the public stage and back into the closet. I guess its this year's critical race theory hype.

Let's hope the rest of the Supreme Court conservatives are true to their word (although ask Susan Collins and Joe Machin, who were shocked - shocked I tell ye  ;)- when the two boys voted to overturn Roe!) and they'll reject the cases when they reach their level (which they will).
maybe joe or his handlers should nominate someone who can argue the pro abortion argument better than the latest justice who doesn't know what a woman is according to her approval testimony.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2022, 06:41:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2022, 05:07:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2022, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 25, 2022, 01:12:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 25, 2022, 12:59:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2022, 06:20:31 PM
The states will decide their policies going forward and even the most strict ones will have a clause in there for rape or incest I would think .
The zeal with which some protesters have about this issue is bordering on demonic also my body my choice except if it's a new vaccine , total loons

That's extremely naive. Missouri has already outright banned abortion and is looking at contraception. A huge amount of rights derived from RvW's principle of privacy. The state has now awarded itself huge power over it's citizens. Everythimg from abortion to interracial marraige is up in the air.

Christ. You are proving his point.

While a threat to interracial marriage is hyperbole, the threat to things like gay marriage, homosexual conduct and contraception is not. Clarence Thomas laid it out. Gay marriage has been federally legal for less than ten years. Abortion stood for 50.

And the underlying hostility of the American right to LGBTQ issues is still very significant. Whether its truck loads of "patriots" (i.e. white christian supremacists) travelling to inflict violence on pride parades, the attempts to intimidate libraries to take down pride decorations and get rid of drag queen book readings, the bullshit about "child grooming" we've been hearing over the past months, the will is there among the MAGA shower and their more brazen representatives to try to force gay people off the public stage and back into the closet. I guess its this year's critical race theory hype.

Let's hope the rest of the Supreme Court conservatives are true to their word (although ask Susan Collins and Joe Machin, who were shocked - shocked I tell ye  ;)- when the two boys voted to overturn Roe!) and they'll reject the cases when they reach their level (which they will).
maybe joe or his handlers should nominate someone who can argue the pro abortion argument better than the latest justice who doesn't know what a woman is according to her approval testimony.

The Democrats are losing their minds

Never mind defining a woman-you're not allowed say the word mother or mom without offending someone

https://www.newsweek.com/biden-admin-replaces-mothers-birthing-people-maternal-health-guidance-1598343?amp=1

"When we talk about birthing people, we're being inclusive. It's that simple. We use gender neutral language when talking about pregnancy, because it's not just cis-gender women that can get pregnant and give birth. Reproductive freedom is for *every* body.""
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2022, 06:55:36 PM
Yes, the secret channels have been going full steam telling all the Dems and liberals across the country they're not allowed to use the word "woman". ::) ;D

Honestly whitey, its one thing for Gmac coming out with this horseshit. You're smart enough to know better.

Jackson correctly deflected Blackburn's grandstanding gotcha question. Just like every other Supreme Court nominee before her when confronted with a showboating Senator in the nomination approval charade. Its a no win situation, so you go with the answer that will do you least harm, especially when you're not getting any opposition votes anyway.

Trans issues, especially the politics, are a difficult, novel subject for most people. Trivializing and dehumanizing these people should be beneath any decent person.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 25, 2022, 07:57:22 PM
Relax J70......it was a tongue in cheek comment

I am fully in favor of transgender rights, but the people I see online are becoming a parody of themselves scolding people for not using the correct pronouns
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2022, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2022, 07:57:22 PM
Relax J70......it was a tongue in cheek comment

I am fully in favor of transgender rights, but the people I see online are becoming a parody of themselves scolding people for not using the correct pronouns

Fair enough.

And yes, Twitter etc is full of idiots.

People need to calm it down. If someone wants to be addressed by certain pronouns, then respect their wishes.

If someone mistakenly, without malice, uses the wrong ones, move on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 26, 2022, 11:18:14 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 25, 2022, 01:12:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 25, 2022, 12:59:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2022, 06:20:31 PM
The states will decide their policies going forward and even the most strict ones will have a clause in there for rape or incest I would think .
The zeal with which some protesters have about this issue is bordering on demonic also my body my choice except if it's a new vaccine , total loons

That's extremely naive. Missouri has already outright banned abortion and is looking at contraception. A huge amount of rights derived from RvW's principle of privacy. The state has now awarded itself huge power over it's citizens. Everythimg from abortion to interracial marraige is up in the air.

Christ. You are proving his point.

It's one of the things that the 'right to' was removed by removing RvW
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 26, 2022, 11:21:10 AM
Quote from: Windmill abu on June 24, 2022, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2022, 03:33:09 PM
Contraception
Same sex relationships
Same sex marriage

will all be going next

No they wont. Because they aren't killing unborn children.

Do you really think this is about abortion? That Trump, who pays for sex, gives a damn about it?

This is about reversing social gains minorities and women won and giving the government much more power over people. As it is on Hungary and Poland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2022, 09:51:39 PM
anything newsworthy today?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 29, 2022, 02:57:38 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2022, 09:51:39 PM
anything newsworthy today?
come on hurl what happened ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2022, 11:02:35 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2022, 09:51:39 PM
anything newsworthy today?

Trump threw a temper tantrum when the secret service refused to take him to the Capitol. He assaulted his driver, tried to grab the steering wheel, and demanded that the guy do as he says because "I'm the f***ing president." Trump wanted to lead the mob from the front, march into the senate chamber, and stop the certification process.

He asked that the mob be let onto the scene without having to go through metal detectors and didn't care if they had assault rifles because "they're not here to hurt me." Meaning he was fine with having an armed mob storm the capitol with assault rifles.

He also was prone to throwing temper tantrums in the White House dining room, throwing his meals against the wall, breaking plates, pulling the tablecloth off and dumping everything on the floor, whenever he didn't get his own way. The ketchup on the wall was a result of him being told that there was no evidence of losing the election to voter fraud.

Seems like the 2020 election was his first ever experience of someone saying "no" to him and his toddler-like mind was incapable of processing it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2022, 01:18:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 29, 2022, 11:02:35 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 28, 2022, 09:51:39 PM
anything newsworthy today?

Trump threw a temper tantrum when the secret service refused to take him to the Capitol. He assaulted his driver, tried to grab the steering wheel, and demanded that the guy do as he says because "I'm the f***ing president." Trump wanted to lead the mob from the front, march into the senate chamber, and stop the certification process.

He asked that the mob be let onto the scene without having to go through metal detectors and didn't care if they had assault rifles because "they're not here to hurt me." Meaning he was fine with having an armed mob storm the capitol with assault rifles.

He also was prone to throwing temper tantrums in the White House dining room, throwing his meals against the wall, breaking plates, pulling the tablecloth off and dumping everything on the floor, whenever he didn't get his own way. The ketchup on the wall was a result of him being told that there was no evidence of losing the election to voter fraud.

Seems like the 2020 election was his first ever experience of someone saying "no" to him and his toddler-like mind was incapable of processing it.
eamon and hurl still watching msnbc I see
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 30, 2022, 10:04:01 AM
They were watching or reading about the under-oath Congressional testimony of yet another person who was there as the toddler sitting president tried to fraudulently steal the election and lead a mob containing armed thugs to disrupt the democratic process.

Let's hope Cippollone testifies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2022, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2022, 10:04:01 AM
They were watching or reading about the under-oath Congressional testimony of yet another person who was there as the toddler sitting president tried to fraudulently steal the election and lead a mob containing armed thugs to disrupt the democratic process.

Let's hope Cippollone testifies.
when is Ray Epps testifying ? He's on tape calling for an insurrection
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 30, 2022, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2022, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2022, 10:04:01 AM
They were watching or reading about the under-oath Congressional testimony of yet another person who was there as the toddler sitting president tried to fraudulently steal the election and lead a mob containing armed thugs to disrupt the democratic process.

Let's hope Cippollone testifies.
when is Ray Epps testifying ? He's on tape calling for an insurrection

Never heard of him till now, but it appears he, a former Oathkeeper (nice lads) was already interviewed. I'm sure if he'd anything substantial to offer, he'd be up there.

I don't which is worse: your adherence to every conspiracy theory that comes around the bend, or the fact that you align yourself with masses of people who, by your implication, are evidently dim-witted sheep who can collectively be manipulated into various criminal plots and violence by supposed FBI plants.

And of course you have zero to say about the actual under-oath testimony of true believers who were still with Trump eight weeks after he started the attempted coup.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2022, 05:03:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2022, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2022, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2022, 10:04:01 AM
They were watching or reading about the under-oath Congressional testimony of yet another person who was there as the toddler sitting president tried to fraudulently steal the election and lead a mob containing armed thugs to disrupt the democratic process.

Let's hope Cippollone testifies.
when is Ray Epps testifying ? He's on tape calling for an insurrection

Never heard of him till now, but it appears he, a former Oathkeeper (nice lads) was already interviewed. I'm sure if he'd anything substantial to offer, he'd be up there.

I don't which is worse: your adherence to every conspiracy theory that comes around the bend, or the fact that you align yourself with masses of people who, by your implication, are evidently dim-witted sheep who can collectively be manipulated into various criminal plots and violence by supposed FBI plants.

And of course you have zero to say about the actual under-oath testimony of true believers who were still with Trump eight weeks after he started the attempted coup.
Under oath second or third hand information, but you are super smart guy ffs.
Ray was probably going to be charged with something unless he played  along , drain your money and resources, sell your home to fight in court or go along with the program that's how the gestapo works .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 30, 2022, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2022, 05:03:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2022, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2022, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2022, 10:04:01 AM
They were watching or reading about the under-oath Congressional testimony of yet another person who was there as the toddler sitting president tried to fraudulently steal the election and lead a mob containing armed thugs to disrupt the democratic process.

Let's hope Cippollone testifies.
when is Ray Epps testifying ? He's on tape calling for an insurrection

Never heard of him till now, but it appears he, a former Oathkeeper (nice lads) was already interviewed. I'm sure if he'd anything substantial to offer, he'd be up there.

I don't which is worse: your adherence to every conspiracy theory that comes around the bend, or the fact that you align yourself with masses of people who, by your implication, are evidently dim-witted sheep who can collectively be manipulated into various criminal plots and violence by supposed FBI plants.

And of course you have zero to say about the actual under-oath testimony of true believers who were still with Trump eight weeks after he started the attempted coup.
Under oath second or third hand information, but you are super smart guy ffs.
Ray was probably going to be charged with something unless he played  along , drain your money and resources, sell your home to fight in court or go along with the program that's how the gestapo works .

No, she was in the room and first hand for the important stuff. The stuff about Trump supposedly lunging at the Secret Service agent to grab the wheel was second hand, but that's hardly the central issue, is it?

And Mark Meadows, her boss, hasn't contradicted what she said.

Let them all come in under oath and put their money where their mouth is. She's had the guts to stand up there in front of the country under pain of perjury. Let's see if all the lapdogs and those who sold their souls do.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2022, 05:44:10 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277461980_10226984833473983_707746148103450213_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3REJe-zV1QsAX--_5yU&_nc_oc=AQmpQ-8XXpRQhgSpupF7Tz3NKKatIw9pw3CfpmzYXgWtStbBOVgXGhP6W7D5o_NlAcw&tn=xNb5rpJqnYq6E3Bm&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-q6cy7NmwY3INRSUlHu4zIy-7mijKJB6qMa8APITHETA&oe=62C21370)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2022, 07:09:00 PM
Trump is gone but he's still all the democrats have .
Roll on November
78% of democrats are not happy with the direction the country is going .
Joe Biden worst of all time , leaving jimmy carter in his rear view mirror and I told you he would be 20 months ago .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 30, 2022, 08:40:41 PM
Trump's NOT gone.

No one would give f**k about him if he was. And that includes the spineless worms like Kevin McCarthy who were brave and dignified for about five minutes on January 6th before running back to kiss his ring.

Tragically for most people Trump and the GOP's sick campaign to steal elections and roll back minority gains still loom extremely large over the country.

But then even Trump is only the symptom of the moral sickness at the heart of the American right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on July 01, 2022, 12:40:21 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2022, 05:44:10 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277461980_10226984833473983_707746148103450213_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3REJe-zV1QsAX--_5yU&_nc_oc=AQmpQ-8XXpRQhgSpupF7Tz3NKKatIw9pw3CfpmzYXgWtStbBOVgXGhP6W7D5o_NlAcw&tn=xNb5rpJqnYq6E3Bm&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-q6cy7NmwY3INRSUlHu4zIy-7mijKJB6qMa8APITHETA&oe=62C21370)
Perhaps that mumbo jumbo reply makes some sense to Republican voters, namely what we Republicans would do different to Democrats is to do almost exactly the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 01, 2022, 05:50:17 PM
Man, ketchup, car, steering wheel, throat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 08, 2022, 04:17:09 AM
US gasoline prices have been falling for 21 consecutive days. How did Biden do it?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 08, 2022, 07:17:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 08, 2022, 04:17:09 AM
US gasoline prices have been falling for 21 consecutive days. How did Biden do it?
the teleprompter is catching joe out again ffs , joe telling Woodrow Wilson hold my beer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Oraisteach on July 08, 2022, 09:17:37 PM
Serious question, Gmac. What is your source of information?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 09, 2022, 07:56:11 PM
Probably OAN, or some other godawful, dark, fact-averse, consipracy-theory-leaden place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 10, 2022, 04:29:54 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 08, 2022, 09:17:37 PM
Serious question, Gmac. What is your source of information?
all over the place , I live in sf Bay Area I see what liberal policies do to beautiful cities like San Francisco.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on July 10, 2022, 05:24:24 PM
Quoteall over the place

Ah that reliable source ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 10, 2022, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 10, 2022, 05:24:24 PM
Quoteall over the place

Ah that reliable source ;D
news is all over the place and the old news networks are the main distributors of fake news
Also watch out for pedo Peter story
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 11, 2022, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2022, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 10, 2022, 05:24:24 PM
Quoteall over the place

Ah that reliable source ;D
news is all over the place and the old news networks are the main distributors of fake news
Also watch out for pedo Peter story

Watch out for "pedo Peter" lads, but beware those fake news sources! ;D :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on July 11, 2022, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 08, 2022, 04:17:09 AM
US gasoline prices have been falling for 21 consecutive days. How did Biden do it?

It came down by 3p a litre in Tesco craigavon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on July 11, 2022, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 11, 2022, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 08, 2022, 04:17:09 AM
US gasoline prices have been falling for 21 consecutive days. How did Biden do it?

It came down by 3p a litre in Tesco craigavon
Biden's reach is enormous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 11, 2022, 07:46:51 PM
These new Hunter Biden revelations are very sad

Talk about a dumpster fire of a life
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 11, 2022, 08:31:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 11, 2022, 07:46:51 PM
These new Hunter Biden revelations are very sad

Talk about a dumpster fire of a life

It's sad... very sad.


It's the biggest laptop hard drive in the world... I understand.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on July 11, 2022, 08:42:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 11, 2022, 07:46:51 PM
These new Hunter Biden revelations are very sad

Talk about a dumpster fire of a life

Sad??? Sounds like my idea of a great time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 11, 2022, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on July 11, 2022, 08:42:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 11, 2022, 07:46:51 PM
These new Hunter Biden revelations are very sad

Talk about a dumpster fire of a life

Sad??? Sound like my idea of a great time.

Haha-one way ticket to the graveyard if you ask me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on July 11, 2022, 11:35:09 PM
Was Hunter the connected White House family guy who received  a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Saudi crown prince?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 12, 2022, 12:10:33 AM
Friendly reminder that the Trump administration was one big nepotism-fest and criminal enterprise.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQnlFxeXkAA2-Vi.png)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 12, 2022, 12:47:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 11, 2022, 11:35:09 PM
Was Hunter the connected White House family guy who received  a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Saudi crown prince?

Unrelated and completely irrelevant to what has come out about Hunter Biden

Jared Kushner was wildly successful and extremely rich before Trump ever won the Presidency

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/?sh=4229fc1b2f42

Hunter Biden is a degenerate alcoholic and drug addict who's peddled access to his Dad which has resulted in millions of dollars of consulting fees to consult in matters he knows nothing about

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 12, 2022, 03:49:40 AM
Oh boy. Now Fox News has pivoted to "Gasoline prices are falling too fast and it's hurting mom & pop gas station owners!"

You couldn't make it up! What must it be like in their brainstorming meetings in the morning when they come up with the whine-of-the-day?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 12, 2022, 01:36:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2022, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2022, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 10, 2022, 05:24:24 PM
Quoteall over the place

Ah that reliable source ;D
news is all over the place and the old news networks are the main distributors of fake news
Also watch out for pedo Peter story

Watch out for "pedo Peter" lads, but beware those fake news sources! ;D :o
when you are down as pedo Peter in your sons iPhone contacts it's probably not a great sign
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 12, 2022, 03:26:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 12, 2022, 01:36:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2022, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2022, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 10, 2022, 05:24:24 PM
Quoteall over the place

Ah that reliable source ;D
news is all over the place and the old news networks are the main distributors of fake news
Also watch out for pedo Peter story

Watch out for "pedo Peter" lads, but beware those fake news sources! ;D :o
when you are down as pedo Peter in your sons iPhone contacts it's probably not a great sign

Haha-he didn't spare Dr Jill either, referring to her as a stupid cvnt (among other things)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 12, 2022, 08:20:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 12:47:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 11, 2022, 11:35:09 PM
Was Hunter the connected White House family guy who received  a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Saudi crown prince?

Unrelated and completely irrelevant to what has come out about Hunter Biden

Jared Kushner was wildly successful and extremely rich before Trump ever won the Presidency

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/?sh=4229fc1b2f42

Hunter Biden is a degenerate alcoholic and drug addict who's peddled access to his Dad which has resulted in millions of dollars of consulting fees to consult in matters he knows nothing about

Its hardly unrelated.

Fair enough, Hunter Biden's personal behaviour and problems are a separate issue, but the cashing in on and sale of access and influence are the same. What did Jared Kushner ever do to warrant the Saudis and other gulf states investing billions in his start-up private equity fund?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 12, 2022, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2022, 08:20:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 12:47:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 11, 2022, 11:35:09 PM
Was Hunter the connected White House family guy who received  a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Saudi crown prince?

Unrelated and completely irrelevant to what has come out about Hunter Biden

Jared Kushner was wildly successful and extremely rich before Trump ever won the Presidency

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/?sh=4229fc1b2f42

Hunter Biden is a degenerate alcoholic and drug addict who's peddled access to his Dad which has resulted in millions of dollars of consulting fees to consult in matters he knows nothing about

Its hardly unrelated.

Fair enough, Hunter Biden's personal behaviour and problems are a separate issue, but the cashing in on and sale of access and influence are the same. What did Jared Kushner ever do to warrant the Saudis and other gulf states investing billions in his start-up private equity fund?

Jared Kushner is already a billionaire several times over

He doesn't need the Saudi money to maintain or sustain his lifestyle

What influence does Jared Kushner have now that Trump is out of office?

Hunter Biden is on the street or in jail without his do nothing consulting gigs

And it is under investigation by the House Oversight Committee and rightly so

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna31805

If I had my way, all these types of arrangements would be illegal, but the answer to questions about Hunter Biden is not "Oh, but look at what Jared Kushner is doing!". I think Hunter Biden is seriously compromised
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on July 12, 2022, 10:03:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2022, 08:20:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 12:47:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 11, 2022, 11:35:09 PM
Was Hunter the connected White House family guy who received  a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Saudi crown prince?

Unrelated and completely irrelevant to what has come out about Hunter Biden

Jared Kushner was wildly successful and extremely rich before Trump ever won the Presidency

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/?sh=4229fc1b2f42

Hunter Biden is a degenerate alcoholic and drug addict who's peddled access to his Dad which has resulted in millions of dollars of consulting fees to consult in matters he knows nothing about

Its hardly unrelated.

Fair enough, Hunter Biden's personal behaviour and problems are a separate issue, but the cashing in on and sale of access and influence are the same. What did Jared Kushner ever do to warrant the Saudis and other gulf states investing billions in his start-up private equity fund?

Jared Kushner is already a billionaire several times over

He doesn't need the Saudi money to maintain or sustain his lifestyle

What influence does Jared Kushner have now that Trump is out of office?

Hunter Biden is on the street or in jail without his do nothing consulting gigs
Payment for services rendered to the Saudis.
Greed has no limit, just because Jared was already well endowed doesn't excuse payment for favors.
Hunter is just a low scale grifter on the make, probably jarred as well
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 12, 2022, 10:17:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 03:26:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 12, 2022, 01:36:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 11, 2022, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 10, 2022, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 10, 2022, 05:24:24 PM
Quoteall over the place

Ah that reliable source ;D
news is all over the place and the old news networks are the main distributors of fake news
Also watch out for pedo Peter story

Watch out for "pedo Peter" lads, but beware those fake news sources! ;D :o
when you are down as pedo Peter in your sons iPhone contacts it's probably not a great sign

Haha-he didn't spare Dr Jill either, referring to her as a stupid cvnt (among other things)
"dr" jill needs a breakfast taco I think
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 12, 2022, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 12, 2022, 10:03:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2022, 08:20:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 12:47:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 11, 2022, 11:35:09 PM
Was Hunter the connected White House family guy who received  a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Saudi crown prince?

Unrelated and completely irrelevant to what has come out about Hunter Biden

Jared Kushner was wildly successful and extremely rich before Trump ever won the Presidency

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/?sh=4229fc1b2f42

Hunter Biden is a degenerate alcoholic and drug addict who's peddled access to his Dad which has resulted in millions of dollars of consulting fees to consult in matters he knows nothing about

Its hardly unrelated.

Fair enough, Hunter Biden's personal behaviour and problems are a separate issue, but the cashing in on and sale of access and influence are the same. What did Jared Kushner ever do to warrant the Saudis and other gulf states investing billions in his start-up private equity fund?

Jared Kushner is already a billionaire several times over

He doesn't need the Saudi money to maintain or sustain his lifestyle

What influence does Jared Kushner have now that Trump is out of office?

Hunter Biden is on the street or in jail without his do nothing consulting gigs
Payment for services rendered to the Saudis.
Greed has no limit, just because Jared was already well endowed doesn't excuse payment for favors.
Hunter is just a low scale grifter on the make, probably jarred as well

Well I'm sure the ongoing investigation into Kushner and Mnuchin will expose the favors you are alluding to
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on July 13, 2022, 01:46:46 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 12, 2022, 10:03:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2022, 08:20:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 12:47:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 11, 2022, 11:35:09 PM
Was Hunter the connected White House family guy who received  a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Saudi crown prince?

Unrelated and completely irrelevant to what has come out about Hunter Biden

Jared Kushner was wildly successful and extremely rich before Trump ever won the Presidency

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/?sh=4229fc1b2f42

Hunter Biden is a degenerate alcoholic and drug addict who's peddled access to his Dad which has resulted in millions of dollars of consulting fees to consult in matters he knows nothing about

Its hardly unrelated.

Fair enough, Hunter Biden's personal behaviour and problems are a separate issue, but the cashing in on and sale of access and influence are the same. What did Jared Kushner ever do to warrant the Saudis and other gulf states investing billions in his start-up private equity fund?

Jared Kushner is already a billionaire several times over

He doesn't need the Saudi money to maintain or sustain his lifestyle

What influence does Jared Kushner have now that Trump is out of office?

Hunter Biden is on the street or in jail without his do nothing consulting gigs
Payment for services rendered to the Saudis.
Greed has no limit, just because Jared was already well endowed doesn't excuse payment for favors.
Hunter is just a low scale grifter on the make, probably jarred as well

Well I'm sure the ongoing investigation into Kushner and Mnuchin will expose the favors you are alluding to

More germane to the topic of profiteering while president of the USA , how  does Joe Biden's profiteering compare to Trumps calculated USD 1,5bn 'earnings' while president?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 13, 2022, 02:54:20 AM
You won't find me defending much of anything Trump ever did

But The Trumps and Kushners were already very wealthy before they entered politics.

Jared Kushner was worth close to $2B before Trump ever got elected. The $25 M he made off the Saudi deal is rounding error to a guy like that, and definitely not worth the heat of a Congressional investigation.

I'd love to see the evidence you have of Trump making $1.5 B off the presidency, because if it's true, it warrants serious investigation


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 13, 2022, 05:05:09 AM
Stop falling for the "Oh look over there! Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden!" scheme. It's all a distraction.

Focus.

QuoteJan. 6 committee notifies DOJ that Trump tried tampering with one of its witnesses, Cheney says (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/12/jan-6-committee-notifies-doj-that-trump-tried-tampering-with-one-of-its-witnesses-cheney-says.html)

The vice chair of the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack revealed that it had made the Department of Justice aware of a phone call it says was made by former President Donald Trump to one of its witnesses.

Republican Liz Cheney said at the Tuesday hearing the witness alerted their lawyer of the call who then told the committee it took place.
The committee showcased fresh testimony from several key witnesses, including former White House counsel Pat Cipollone.

The House select committee investigating the attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6 revealed that it told the Department of Justice that former President Donald Trump contacted one of its witnesses who hasn't publicly testified yet.

"After our last hearing. President Trump tried to call a witness in our investigation. A witness you have not yet seen in these hearings," Rep. Liz Cheney, the vice chair of the committee, said on Tuesday.

"That person declined to answer or respond to President Trump's call and instead alerted their lawyer to the call. Their lawyer alerted us. And this committee has supplied that information to the Department of Justice," she added.

A spokesperson for Trump did not respond to requests for comment.

The Tuesday hearing marked the latest round of testimony that depicts Trump as a president determined to hang onto power after the conclusion of the 2020 presidential election — no matter the cost to American democracy.

The committee showcased fresh testimony from several key witnesses, including former White House counsel Pat Cipollone, who told the panel's investigators that they believed the election wasn't stolen and it was time for the president to concede.

Trump has continued to make false claims about the 2020 election two years after he lost to President Joe Biden. Trump has yet to rule out another run for president in 2024.

This might be the best way to stop him from getting reelected. Get him locked up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 13, 2022, 09:54:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 13, 2022, 05:05:09 AM
Stop falling for the "Oh look over there! Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden!" scheme. It's all a distraction.

Focus.

QuoteJan. 6 committee notifies DOJ that Trump tried tampering with one of its witnesses, Cheney says (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/12/jan-6-committee-notifies-doj-that-trump-tried-tampering-with-one-of-its-witnesses-cheney-says.html)

The vice chair of the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack revealed that it had made the Department of Justice aware of a phone call it says was made by former President Donald Trump to one of its witnesses.

Republican Liz Cheney said at the Tuesday hearing the witness alerted their lawyer of the call who then told the committee it took place.
The committee showcased fresh testimony from several key witnesses, including former White House counsel Pat Cipollone.

The House select committee investigating the attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6 revealed that it told the Department of Justice that former President Donald Trump contacted one of its witnesses who hasn't publicly testified yet.

"After our last hearing. President Trump tried to call a witness in our investigation. A witness you have not yet seen in these hearings," Rep. Liz Cheney, the vice chair of the committee, said on Tuesday.

"That person declined to answer or respond to President Trump's call and instead alerted their lawyer to the call. Their lawyer alerted us. And this committee has supplied that information to the Department of Justice," she added.

A spokesperson for Trump did not respond to requests for comment.

The Tuesday hearing marked the latest round of testimony that depicts Trump as a president determined to hang onto power after the conclusion of the 2020 presidential election — no matter the cost to American democracy.

The committee showcased fresh testimony from several key witnesses, including former White House counsel Pat Cipollone, who told the panel's investigators that they believed the election wasn't stolen and it was time for the president to concede.

Trump has continued to make false claims about the 2020 election two years after he lost to President Joe Biden. Trump has yet to rule out another run for president in 2024.

This might be the best way to stop him from getting reelected. Get him locked up.

So our friends in the main stream media told us in the run up to the 2020 election that the Hunter Biden Laptop was "Russian misinformation"

The same media, I may add, who for 4 years pushed the now debunked dossier as fact

Trump should be barred from holding office, but that doesn't change the facts about Hunter Biden and by default Joe Biden
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 13, 2022, 12:01:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 12, 2022, 08:20:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 12, 2022, 12:47:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 11, 2022, 11:35:09 PM
Was Hunter the connected White House family guy who received  a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Saudi crown prince?

Unrelated and completely irrelevant to what has come out about Hunter Biden

Jared Kushner was wildly successful and extremely rich before Trump ever won the Presidency

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/?sh=4229fc1b2f42

Hunter Biden is a degenerate alcoholic and drug addict who's peddled access to his Dad which has resulted in millions of dollars of consulting fees to consult in matters he knows nothing about

Its hardly unrelated.

Fair enough, Hunter Biden's personal behaviour and problems are a separate issue, but the cashing in on and sale of access and influence are the same. What did Jared Kushner ever do to warrant the Saudis and other gulf states investing billions in his start-up private equity fund?

Jared Kushner is already a billionaire several times over

He doesn't need the Saudi money to maintain or sustain his lifestyle

What influence does Jared Kushner have now that Trump is out of office?

Hunter Biden is on the street or in jail without his do nothing consulting gigs

And it is under investigation by the House Oversight Committee and rightly so

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna31805

If I had my way, all these types of arrangements would be illegal, but the answer to questions about Hunter Biden is not "Oh, but look at what Jared Kushner is doing!". I think Hunter Biden is seriously compromised

Trump is out of office right now, but that doesn't mean that he will always be, and it doesn't mean that all of those with whom Jared Kushner would have influence still aren't in office and prostrating themselves before Trump and his base.

But each side pointing at Jared Kushner or Hunter Biden is beside the point.

The issue is that the more money you're willing to throw at these politicians, the more influence you can buy. US politicians spend a major chunk of their time fundraising for the re-election campaigns. They're able to get all kinds of undisclosed donations from who the f**k knows who. I've said before that I'll never land a meeting with a Senator or Congressperson. I just don't have the cash i.e. I'm not important and there's nothing in it for them. A relative of my wife recently had dinner with a western governor. I assure you it wasn't because they were old college mates or had met during some shared hobby. Cash was going one way, influence over policy the other.

So I don't really give a f**k about the right wing obsession with Hunter Biden. When they agree to clean up the corruption and sleaze that underlies the whole system, I'll be fully on board. Until then, f**k them and their hypocritical outrage.

I don't care about Hunter Biden either. If he's done criminal shit, investigate and prosecute him. Same as Trump and the rest of his corrupt, treasonous lackeys.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 18, 2022, 05:01:34 AM
Gas prices still dropping.

(https://i.etsystatic.com/25457094/r/il/e25b43/3554695750/il_1588xN.3554695750_a67i.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 22, 2022, 11:33:30 AM
Dems finally realizing joe is a huge liability and  they are toast in November the plan in motion to dump him but the problem is the backup  QB is a bigger idiot , what a joke of an administration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on July 22, 2022, 11:41:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2022, 11:33:30 AM
Dems finally realizing joe is a huge liability and  they are toast in November the plan in motion to dump him but the problem is the backup  QB is a bigger idiot , what a joke of an administration.

Dems finally realizing joe is a huge liability and  they are toast in November the plan in motion to dump him but the problem is the backup  QB is a bigger idiot , what a joke of an administration a country.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 22, 2022, 12:21:45 PM
Yep, only way Joe can win in '24 is if Trump is on the other ticket.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2022, 03:12:38 PM
I just read that if you're in the country illegally, you can board a plane using your "warrant" to appear as an ID.

Meanwhile tax paying,  law abiding CITIZENS like myself have to jump through hoops to get a "real" ID, because our Massachusetts drivers licenses will no longer be accepted.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 22, 2022, 03:28:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2022, 03:12:38 PM
I just read that if you're in the country illegally, you can board a plane using your "warrant" to appear as an ID.

Meanwhile tax paying,  law abiding CITIZENS like myself have to jump through hoops to get a "real" ID, because our Massachusetts drivers licenses will no longer be accepted.
saw that and another f$cking kick in the teeth to citizens and legal residents . Worst administration ever by a country mile .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 22, 2022, 04:37:16 PM
"just read" = watched on Tucker Carlson last night

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1550312578903154688/PKkHCrF2?format=jpg&name=small)


at the same time this coward was shown on video running from the mob on Jan 6th
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2022, 05:11:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 22, 2022, 04:37:16 PM
"just read" = watched on Tucker Carlson last night

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1550312578903154688/PKkHCrF2?format=jpg&name=small)


at the same time this coward was shown on video running from the mob on Jan 6th

I have a Twitter and it showed up on my feed

I then googled to see if it was true and surprisingly (NOT) none of the main stream media outlets such as NY Times, CNN or MSBNC were covering thee story

What Hawley was or wasn't doing on January 6th doesn't make this story untrue-but nice attempt at deflection all the same
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 22, 2022, 06:33:08 PM
According to Politifact, the TSA has been "accepting civil immigration violation forms", which are not criminal arrest forms, "as a means of identification" since 2019.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/04/ron-johnson/immigrants-who-are-known-criminals-are-not-using-a/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/04/ron-johnson/immigrants-who-are-known-criminals-are-not-using-a/) 


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 22, 2022, 06:53:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2022, 06:33:08 PM
According to Politifact, the TSA has been "accepting civil immigration violation forms", which are not criminal arrest forms, "as a means of identification" since 2019.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/04/ron-johnson/immigrants-who-are-known-criminals-are-not-using-a/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/04/ron-johnson/immigrants-who-are-known-criminals-are-not-using-a/)

It was wrong then and it's wrong now

I wasn't blaming one administration or the the other-just pointing out how absolutely absurd it is that a citizen with a legally obtained drivers license has to get new identification to get through TSA, while someone who has entered the country illegally can get by using this form which essentially doesn't prove who they are
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on July 22, 2022, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2022, 06:33:08 PM
According to Politifact, the TSA has been "accepting civil immigration violation forms", which are not criminal arrest forms, "as a means of identification" since 2019.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/04/ron-johnson/immigrants-who-are-known-criminals-are-not-using-a/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/04/ron-johnson/immigrants-who-are-known-criminals-are-not-using-a/) 




So, during the Trump administration, or as gmac referred to them "Worst administration ever by a country mile ."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 22, 2022, 07:19:40 PM
In fairness to Trump, I think Buchanan and Pierce might still be below him in the overall stakes.

Most seditious, most corrupt... top of the pile baby!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 22, 2022, 07:31:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 22, 2022, 06:53:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 22, 2022, 06:33:08 PM
According to Politifact, the TSA has been "accepting civil immigration violation forms", which are not criminal arrest forms, "as a means of identification" since 2019.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/04/ron-johnson/immigrants-who-are-known-criminals-are-not-using-a/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/04/ron-johnson/immigrants-who-are-known-criminals-are-not-using-a/)

It was wrong then and it's wrong now

I wasn't blaming one administration or the the other-just pointing out how absolutely absurd it is that a citizen with a legally obtained drivers license has to get new identification to get through TSA, while someone who has entered the country illegally can get by using this form which essentially doesn't prove who they are

No idea.

I would have to hear what the exact process is, how secure it is, and the justification for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 22, 2022, 08:19:42 PM
Good man j70 going down with the ship .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on July 22, 2022, 11:03:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2022, 08:19:42 PM
Good man j70 going down with the ship .
Gmac what could Biden do to secure your vote at the next election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on July 23, 2022, 02:15:33 AM
Change his name by deed poll to Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 23, 2022, 09:26:44 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on July 22, 2022, 11:03:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 22, 2022, 08:19:42 PM
Good man j70 going down with the ship .
Gmac what could Biden do to secure your vote at the next election?
nothing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 25, 2022, 02:50:29 PM
I guess you'll have to cancel any plans you have for summertime picnics now. It's an offensive word to some

https://youtu.be/-Gnsnqarjww

(BTW-the lisaion between the local BLM (type) group and the school committee shared this on Facebook)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on July 26, 2022, 11:14:59 AM
Hopefully president Obama makes a full recovery from Covid. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 26, 2022, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 26, 2022, 11:14:59 AM
Hopefully president Obama makes a full recovery from Covid. ;D
he will be fine he has 2 doses and 3 boosters like joe , only for them he may have died .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2022, 12:00:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2022, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 26, 2022, 11:14:59 AM
Hopefully president Obama makes a full recovery from Covid. ;D
he will be fine he has 2 doses and 3 boosters like joe , only for them he may have died .

Wow, a fact-based statement from Gmac!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2022, 02:50:29 PM
I guess you'll have to cancel any plans you have for summertime picnics now. It's an offensive word to some

https://youtu.be/-Gnsnqarjww

(BTW-the lisaion between the local BLM (type) group and the school committee shared this on Facebook)

Interesting. I'd no idea of that history.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 26, 2022, 12:11:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2022, 02:50:29 PM
I guess you'll have to cancel any plans you have for summertime picnics now. It's an offensive word to some

https://youtu.be/-Gnsnqarjww

(BTW-the lisaion between the local BLM (type) group and the school committee shared this on Facebook)

Interesting. I'd no idea of that history.
hope you don't have a master bathroom in your house j70
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 26, 2022, 12:25:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 25, 2022, 02:50:29 PM
I guess you'll have to cancel any plans you have for summertime picnics now. It's an offensive word to some

https://youtu.be/-Gnsnqarjww

(BTW-the lisaion between the local BLM (type) group and the school committee shared this on Facebook)

Interesting. I'd no idea of that history.
guillotine in France , hanging drawing and quartering people,  chopping off heads , hanging people in old west all brought out lots of people as was like entertainment to them , souvenirs and pictures were taken in old west all the time, another load of bs. BBQ will be next
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 26, 2022, 09:22:56 PM
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1552009732994387968?s=20&t=sGIgKEPJjuoVy3IIDbFZrg

J70-now I know why you're still riding the subway to work
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on July 27, 2022, 08:20:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 26, 2022, 09:22:56 PM
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1552009732994387968?s=20&t=sGIgKEPJjuoVy3IIDbFZrg

J70-now I know why you're still riding the subway to work

New York has went from masks in schools to this in 2 months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on July 27, 2022, 09:08:50 AM
Has GONE!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2022, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 26, 2022, 09:22:56 PM
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1552009732994387968?s=20&t=sGIgKEPJjuoVy3IIDbFZrg

J70-now I know why you're still riding the subway to work

;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 27, 2022, 01:16:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2022, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: whitey on July 26, 2022, 09:22:56 PM
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1552009732994387968?s=20&t=sGIgKEPJjuoVy3IIDbFZrg

J70-now I know why you're still riding the subway to work

;D
that's what he voted for , enjoy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 28, 2022, 05:32:52 AM
Manchin has finally cracked! I hope it's because Pelosi found some dirt on him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 30, 2022, 08:01:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2022, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 26, 2022, 11:14:59 AM
Hopefully president Obama makes a full recovery from Covid. ;D
he will be fine he has 2 doses and 3 boosters like joe , only for them he may have died .
joe is back in quarantine again Covid positive, luckily they have a ready to go basement for him where he was hiding most of 2020
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 31, 2022, 01:31:09 PM
LOL

In Chicago, not alone are the cops prevented from chasing people in cars, they're also restricted in terms of when they can chase people on foot

https://mobile.twitter.com/CHICAGOCREATUR1/status/1542018178091569153
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2022, 02:58:00 PM
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/NationalHealthAccountsHistorical#:~:text=U.S.%20health%20care%20spending%20grew,spending%20accounted%20for%2019.7%20percent.

U.S. health care spending grew 9.7 percent in 2020, reaching $4.1 trillion or $12,530 per person. As a share of the nation's Gross Domestic Product, health spending accounted for 19.7 percent.

15 Dec 2021
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 31, 2022, 03:36:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 31, 2022, 01:31:09 PM
LOL

In Chicago, not alone are the cops prevented from chasing people in cars, they're also restricted in terms of when they can chase people on foot

https://mobile.twitter.com/CHICAGOCREATUR1/status/1542018178091569153
gaa cyc is in Chicago this weekend and getting hotels that are in a safe area is the biggest problem they have and are ending up with one hour bus rides to pitches .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on July 31, 2022, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2022, 02:58:00 PM
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/NationalHealthAccountsHistorical#:~:text=U.S.%20health%20care%20spending%20grew,spending%20accounted%20for%2019.7%20percent.

U.S. health care spending grew 9.7 percent in 2020, reaching $4.1 trillion or $12,530 per person. As a share of the nation's Gross Domestic Product, health spending accounted for 19.7 percent.

15 Dec 2021
Covid have anything to do with that ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on July 31, 2022, 05:30:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 31, 2022, 03:36:25 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 31, 2022, 01:31:09 PM
LOL

In Chicago, not alone are the cops prevented from chasing people in cars, they're also restricted in terms of when they can chase people on foot

https://mobile.twitter.com/CHICAGOCREATUR1/status/1542018178091569153
gaa cyc is in Chicago this weekend and getting hotels that are in a safe area is the biggest problem they have and are ending up with one hour bus rides to pitches .

The problem is that areas that were safe are now dangerous.....Loop, River North, Lakefront

And these are the areas that tourists and out of towners used to flock to
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 01, 2022, 11:39:53 PM
Al Queda leader Ayman al-Zawahri is said to have been killed by a CIA drone strike in Afghanistan.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 02, 2022, 04:16:02 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1236TCtX5dsGEo/giphy.gif)

Madam Speaker . . . fair play!!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 02, 2022, 08:20:11 PM
Bit of a difference between Pelosi visiting Taiwan and Trump saluting a North Korean general. Night and day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 02, 2022, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 02, 2022, 08:20:11 PM
Bit of a difference between Pelosi visiting Taiwan and Trump saluting a North Korean general. Night and day.
paulie must have invested much more than 20m in chip stocks ,word is  she drank more vodka on the way than yelstin did on his way to Shannon back in the day .
Well done to the cia taking out that sc**bag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 03, 2022, 03:13:54 PM
Should be interesting to see if the Chinese have any dirt on the Bidens

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 04, 2022, 05:32:03 PM

Thank you, President Joe Biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 04, 2022, 06:45:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 04, 2022, 05:32:03 PM

  • Record job growth.
  • Largest deficit cut in history.
  • Leader of al-Qaeda eliminated.
  • Most significant gun safety reform in 30 years.
  • Once-in-a-generation infrastructure investments.
  • CHIPs bill passed to bring back manufacturing jobs.

Thank you, President Joe Biden.
good man eamon did they change the definition of a few of those items like they are with recession and vaccine ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 05, 2022, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 04, 2022, 05:32:03 PM

  • Record job growth.
  • Largest deficit cut in history.
  • Leader of al-Qaeda eliminated.
  • Most significant gun safety reform in 30 years.
  • Once-in-a-generation infrastructure investments.
  • CHIPs bill passed to bring back manufacturing jobs.
[/b]
[/list]

Thank you, President Joe Biden.

To Mexico?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 05:30:43 PM
Today in unhinged conservative outrage for no effing reason: Cracker Barrel, an awful diner chain, has decided to add Impossible burgers (veggie burgers) to their menu. And the conservatives are losing their goddamn minds over it.

A selection of triggered comments from the snowflake cancel culture include:

"Go Woke, Go Broke!" (How original. ~sarc)

"Don't ever push that crap in my direction. Stick to the basics that made your franchise a success."

"You just lost the customer base. Congratulations on going woke and going broke."

"All the more reason to stop eating at Cracker Barrel. This is not what Cracker Barrel was to be all about."

"Nope, I don't trust that over processed stuff."

Maybe the snowflakes will get it into their heads that nobody's forcing them to eat it, that there's demand for this sort of thing, and in a capitalist society, businesses are entitled to meet demand. What's the betting some Republican nutjob decides to pass legislation banning veggie burgers just out of pure, unadulterated, hate-driven spite?

I never thought we'd see the day when restaurant menus would need trigger warnings, but here we are.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 05:55:11 PM
AAA says the national average price of gasoline is currently $4.19 per gallon, and it's $3.77 or less in eight states. Down $0.83 since mid June. The fastest decline in over a decade.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 05, 2022, 05:56:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 05:55:11 PM
AAA says the national average price of gasoline is currently $4.19 per gallon, and it's $3.77 or less in eight states. Down $0.83 since mid June. The fastest decline in over a decade.
https://monthlyreview.org/2011/03/01/structural-crisis-in-the-world-system/

Premise No. 4 is the description of what happens in a structural crisis, which the world-system is in at the present time, has been in at least since the 1970s, and shall continue to be in until probably circa 2050. The primary characteristic of a structural crisis is chaos. Chaos is not a situation of totally random happenings. It is a situation of rapid and constant fluctuations in all the parameters of the historical system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 06:00:15 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/297551635_10159840828153444_2821767451640403183_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=KACQeO_gocUAX-0Dre8&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8LtwHTQ9ztfQDmZ9YgKQqwZjQ0h22zMxXhzt3QGA9I3Q&oe=62F2B36E)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 05, 2022, 06:05:57 PM
Is everything ok at home Eamonn?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 07:24:48 PM
Never better. Nothing like the sight of conservatives having a meltdown. Thanks for checking.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 05, 2022, 08:37:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 07:24:48 PM
Never better. Nothing like the sight of conservatives having a meltdown. Thanks for checking.
wouldn't you love to haggle a price for something  with someone like this,  I would  say $20 he says $10 I say $30 he says ok $25 .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 08:59:08 PM
Anyone following the Alex Jones saga? What started as a civil suit is probably going to lead to criminal charges and jail time. He's his own worst enemy! A perfect example of what happens what conservative thinking can do to a person.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 09:43:38 PM
California's GDP increased by 21% over the last five years, dwarfing Florida and Texas. Thank you Governor Newsom for your leadership. Amazing what you can get done when you get the conservative Republicans out of the way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 05, 2022, 10:24:10 PM
LOL

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-29/california-exodus-continues-l-a-san-francisco-lead-the-way?_amp=true

Sections
CALIFORNIA
California exodus continues, with L.A., San Francisco leading the way: 'Why are we here?'


JULY 29, 2022 6 AM PT

After living in the Bay Area for nearly seven years, Hari Raghavan and his wife decided to leave for the East Coast late last year.

They were both working remotely and wanted to leave California because of the high cost of living and urban crime. So they made a list of potential relocation cities before choosing Miami for its sunny weather and what they perceived was a better sense of safety.
Raghavan said that their Oakland house had been broken into four times and that prior to the pandemic, his wife called him every day during her seven-minute walk home from the BART station because she felt safer with someone on the phone. After moving to Miami, Raghavan said they accidentally left their garage door open one day and were floored when they returned home and found nothing had been stolen.

"We moved to the Bay Area because we had to be there if you want to work in tech and start-ups, and now that that's no longer a tether, we took a long hard look and said, 'Wait, why are we here again?' " Raghavan said.

He said there wasn't much draw in California's quality of life, local or social policies, or cost of living. "That forced us to question where we actually wanted to live," he said.

Lake Arrowhead, CA - April 26: Natalie Camunas relaxes in a swing chair outside her and her partner's cabin in Lake Arrowhead Tuesday, April 26, 2022. When the 35-year-old and her partner purchased a small cabin in the mountains two years ago, they had intended to use it as an investment property that they would rent out to vacationers looking for a forest escape. The couple bought the 670-square-foot home for $189,000, Camunas said, when housing prices in Southern California were climbing, but before they smashed records and hit an all-time high. But after quarantining in their apartment in Los Angeles's Fairfax district as the COVID-19 pandemic spread, discovering dead rats in their home and dealing with a bug infestation, they decided to make their move to San Bernardino County official in the fall of 2020. (Allen J. Schaben / Los Angeles Times)


An acceleration of people leaving coastal California began during the first year of the pandemic. But new data show it continued even after lockdowns and other COVID restrictions eased.

California ranks second in the country for outbound moves — a phenomenon that has snowballed during the pandemic, according to a report from the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, which tracked data from moving company United Van Lines. Between 2018 and 2019, California had an outbound move rate of 56%. That rate rose to nearly 60% in 2020-21.

Citing changes in work-life balance, opportunities for remote work and more people deciding to quit their jobs, the report found that droves of Californians are leaving for states like Texas, Virginia, Washington and Florida. California lost more than 352,000 residents between April 2020 and January 2022, according to California Department of Finance statistics.


San Francisco and Los Angeles rank first and second in the country, respectively, for outbound moves as the cost of living and housing prices continue to balloon and homeowners flee to less expensive cities, according to a report from Redfin released this month.

Angelenos, in particular, are flocking to places like Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Diego, San Antonio and Dallas. The number of Los Angeles residents leaving the city jumped from around 33,000 in the second quarter of 2021 to nearly 41,000 in the same span of 2022, according to the report.

California has grappled with extremely high housing prices compared with other states, according to USC economics professor Matthew Kahn. Combined with the pandemic and the rise in remote work, privileged households relocated when they had the opportunity.

ADVERTISEMENT

"People want to live here, but an unintended consequence of the state's environmentalism is we're not building enough housing in desirable downtown areas," Kahn said. "That prices out middle-class people to the suburbs [and creates] long commutes. We don't have road pricing to help the traffic congestion, and these headaches add up. So when you create the possibility of work from home, many of these people ... they say 'enough' and they move to a cheaper metropolitan area."

El Dorado Hills, Calif. -- Thursday, May 27, 2021: Brian and Rebecca Luke their with son Bennett, 1, in the kitchen of their new home in El Dorado Hills, Calif., on May 27, 2021. (Brian van der Brug / Los Angeles Times)
CALIFORNIA

FOR SUBSCRIBERS
Wealth, class and remote work reshape California's new boomtowns as people flee big cities

July 2, 2021
Kahn also pointed out that urban crime, a growing unhoused population, public school quality and overall quality of life are driving out residents.

ADVERTISEMENT

"In New York City, but also in San Francisco, there are all these fights about which kids get into which elite public schools," he said. "The rich are always able to hide in their bubble, but if the middle class looks at this quality of life declining, that's a push factor to leave."

Redfin chief economist Daryl Fairweather cited a June report that tracked the change in spending power of a homebuyer on a $2,500 monthly budget. While 11.2% of homes in Los Angeles were affordable on that budget, using a 3% interest rate, that amount swelled to about 72% in Houston and about 50% in Phoenix.

"It's really an affordability problem," Fairweather said. "California for the longest time has prioritized single-family zoning, which makes it so people stay in their homes longer because their property taxes don't reflect the true value. California is the epicenter of where the housing shortage is so people have no choice but to move elsewhere."

ADVERTISEMENT

While California experienced a major population boom in the late 20th century — reaching 37 million people by 2000 — it's been losing residents since, with new growth lagging behind the rest of the country, according to the Public Policy Institute of California. The state's population increased by 5.8% from 2010 to 2020, below the national growth rate of 6.8%, and resulting in the loss of a congressional seat in 2021 for the first time in the state's history.

Although California has relied on immigration to offset its population decline for the past two decades, that flow has also shrunk, according to UCLA economics professor Lee Ohanian.

Delays in processing migration requests to the U.S. were compounded during the pandemic, resulting in the lowest levels of immigration in decades, according to U.S. Census Bureau data.

ADVERTISEMENT

Estimates showed a net increase of 244,000 new immigrants between 2020 and 2021 — roughly half the 477,000 new immigrant residents recorded between 2019 and 2020 and a drastic reduction from more than 1 million reported from 2015 to 2016.

The state is also seeing a dwindling middle class, said Ohanian, who cited a report from the National Assn. of Realtors, outlining that the national median home sales price has reached $416,000, a record high. Meanwhile, California's median home price has topped $800,000.

"[California is] at a risk for becoming a state for very, very wealthy people and very, very low earners who receive state and local and federal aid that allows them to be able to live here," Ohanian said. "We should worry about those in the middle who are earning that $78,000 household median income and is, at the end of the day, really struggling, especially if they have interest in buying a home."

Los Angeles County, in particular, has suffered from slowed population growth, as have rural parts of the state, while Orange County, Sacramento and some parts of the Bay Area have managed to see some gains, the Public Policy Institute of California found.

ADVERTISEMENT

Fairweather said that since she last lived in Los Angeles in 2016, she's noticed fewer affordable places to rent.

"It used to be that Santa Monica and Beverly Hills were expensive, but you could find affordable housing on the Eastside," she said. "But that got expensive and you had to find housing near South Central. Now, there's nowhere within a two-hour commute of downtown Los Angeles that's still affordable."

LOS ANGELES, CA - NOVEMBER 11: Several trails feed into the Mt Hollywood Trail leading to the peak of Mount Hollywood at 1,625 ft which is the second tallest peak in Griffith Park. The trails provide amazing views of the Griffith Observatory, downtown Los Angeles, the Hollywood Sign and views to the Pacific Ocean on clear days. much more. There are many trails that lead to Mt. Hollywood, but a favorite trail begins near the Ferndell Nature Area. Griffith Park on Thursday, Nov. 11, 2021 in Los Angeles, CA. (Al Seib / Los Angeles Times).
CALIFORNIA

California population continues decline, driven by lower immigration, fewer births and pandemic deaths

Dec. 18, 2021
ADVERTISEMENT

Bay Area native Kenny Phung, who made the exodus from California last fall when his partner got into nursing school in Portland, Ore., said high rent prices helped cement the decision to move out of state. Phung was living with three roommates in Los Angeles for $3,600 total per month but found a two-bedroom apartment for less than half that price in Portland. He's currently working as a project manager at a San Jose-based company that allows him to work remotely.

"It just didn't make sense," Phung said. "Why would I want to live in California when I'm working from home and paying something outrageous for such a small space when I can try things out and be able to save money on rent?"

Housing was also a major factor in Raghavan's decision to leave the Golden State, he said, adding that downtown Miami has multiple skyscrapers, more affordable housing, well-paved roads and better infrastructure and services.

ADVERTISEMENT

"The Bay Area has become a land of minor inconveniences, and some are not-so-minor anymore," he said. "Housing and real estate have ripples across everything. It makes rent more expensive for restaurants, which raises food prices, and it causes people to commute over longer distances. Everything becomes a burden."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 05, 2022, 10:26:34 PM
Alex Jones lol, tighten the ****. Goes to show, spreading blatant lies, hate speech, on Sandy Hook came back on him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 10:52:54 PM
Couldn't have happened to a nicer fella. Those poor people had to deal with the loss of their children at the hands of a gun nut. On top of it they had to deal with harassment and threats from Jones's brainwashed conservative followers. There's a special place in hell for this POS and the people who followed him, some of whom are probably posting on this thread.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on August 05, 2022, 11:19:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 10:52:54 PM
Couldn't have happened to a nicer fella. Those poor people had to deal with the loss of their children at the hands of a gun nut. On top of it they had to deal with harassment and threats from Jones's brainwashed conservative followers. There's a special place in hell for this POS and the people who followed him, some of whom are probably posting on this thread.
+1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 11:52:19 PM
Update: He's now got to pay $45.2 million in punitive damages on top of the $4.1 in compensatory damages that were awarded yesterday. That's just to two families.

Two more trials after this.

Slap it up the conservative sh1tbag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 06, 2022, 07:14:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 09:43:38 PM
California's GDP increased by 21% over the last five years, dwarfing Florida and Texas. Thank you Governor Newsom for your leadership. Amazing what you can get done when you get the conservative Republicans out of the way.

I really don't have a horse in this race but didn't I read something about the equivalent of the population of Montana leaving California last year?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 06, 2022, 09:46:40 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2022, 11:52:19 PM
Update: He's now got to pay $45.2 million in punitive damages on top of the $4.1 in compensatory damages that were awarded yesterday. That's just to two families.

Two more trials after this.

Slap it up the conservative sh1tbag.
https://www.ft.com/content/1af4dc7f-0029-4ca1-bb43-d491c7c10c0c
Wesley Ball, a lawyer for the parents, on Friday urged jurors to "send a message" with their punitive damages award: "Stop Alex Jones, stop the monetisation of misinformation and lies."



   Lewis and Heslin, whose 6-year-old son Jesse Lewis was killed at Sandy Hook, had requested as much as $150mn in damages for emotional torment, saying their lives were made a "living hell" by strangers who sent them death threats and who wrongly believed the couple faked their child's death based on Jones's comments.

They sued Jones for falsely claiming the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, where 20 children and six adults were killed, was a hoax staged to justify gun control.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 07, 2022, 08:19:29 PM
The right wing media has been pushing this "California exodus" story for a while, but like the "California is bankrupt" trope, it's not true.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/09/leaving-california-exodus-evidence-myth (https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/09/leaving-california-exodus-evidence-myth)

Btw, more people live in San Diego than live in Montana.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 08, 2022, 08:12:56 PM
"It's wrong what they did to Alex Jones. He should be able to criticize the official story any time he wants. I hope he appeals the verdicts because the kangaroo courts already made him guilty before the trials started. Americans should help cover his bills. Sick of censorship!"

These are the words of Arizona state Senator Wendy Rogers. And of course, she's a Republican. What other pearls of conservative wisdom has this bimbo been casting before us?

Apparently Volodymyr Zelenskyy is "a globalist puppet for Soros and the Clintons."

"Half of the combat footage" taken in the city of Kyiv was "a video game."

She has also called for people who she deems to be "traitors" to be publicly hanged.

This is not some mentally ill person on the street corner screaming at traffic. This is an elected politician. This is how insane conservative politicians are getting, and they're only getting worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 08, 2022, 08:26:40 PM
Saw a bit of thon Alex Jones idiot and his idiot lawyers in the trial, but who is funding him and his TV channel?

Also when will the voting machine crowd, Dominion have their day in the sun?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 08, 2022, 10:37:04 PM
Democrats are hiring 87k new irs agents wtf
They should be hiring 8k border patrol agents .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 09, 2022, 01:14:15 AM
Feds raid Mar-A-Lago

Have some plumbers checking the toilets for documents
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on August 09, 2022, 01:54:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 08, 2022, 08:12:56 PM
"It's wrong what they did to Alex Jones. He should be able to criticize the official story any time he wants. I hope he appeals the verdicts because the kangaroo courts already made him guilty before the trials started. Americans should help cover his bills. Sick of censorship!"

These are the words of Arizona state Senator Wendy Rogers. And of course, she's a Republican. What other pearls of conservative wisdom has this bimbo been casting before us?

Apparently Volodymyr Zelenskyy is "a globalist puppet for Soros and the Clintons."

"Half of the combat footage" taken in the city of Kyiv was "a video game."

She has also called for people who she deems to be "traitors" to be publicly hanged.

This is not some mentally ill person on the street corner screaming at traffic. This is an elected politician. This is how insane conservative politicians are getting, and they're only getting worse.

I don't follow the finer details of US politics, so I don't know the story with Alex Jones, or exactly who Wendy Rogers is; but - and whatever about anything else - she's absolutely on the ball about Zelensky being a globalist puppet.
And also, while there may be some "insane conservative politicians" over there - did you never notice the wacky woke mob?! One side mirrors the other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 09, 2022, 02:35:48 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2022, 01:54:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 08, 2022, 08:12:56 PM
"It's wrong what they did to Alex Jones. He should be able to criticize the official story any time he wants. I hope he appeals the verdicts because the kangaroo courts already made him guilty before the trials started. Americans should help cover his bills. Sick of censorship!"

These are the words of Arizona state Senator Wendy Rogers. And of course, she's a Republican. What other pearls of conservative wisdom has this bimbo been casting before us?

Apparently Volodymyr Zelenskyy is "a globalist puppet for Soros and the Clintons."

"Half of the combat footage" taken in the city of Kyiv was "a video game."

She has also called for people who she deems to be "traitors" to be publicly hanged.

This is not some mentally ill person on the street corner screaming at traffic. This is an elected politician. This is how insane conservative politicians are getting, and they're only getting worse.

I don't follow the finer details of US politics, so I don't know the story with Alex Jones, or exactly who Wendy Rogers is; but - and whatever about anything else - she's absolutely on the ball about Zelensky being a globalist puppet.
And also, while there may be some "insane conservative politicians" over there - did you never notice the wacky woke mob?! One side mirrors the other.
What wacky woke mob mirrors Alex Jones?  and what about    "I don't  know the story  who "exactly Wendy Rogers is " yet  you profess  to know  she's on the ball about Zelensky.

"Half of the combat footage" taken in the city of Kyiv was "a video game.

Only half? ;D

This tread already has enough useful idiots,  the cup already overfloweth.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 05:16:19 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2022, 01:54:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 08, 2022, 08:12:56 PM
"It's wrong what they did to Alex Jones. He should be able to criticize the official story any time he wants. I hope he appeals the verdicts because the kangaroo courts already made him guilty before the trials started. Americans should help cover his bills. Sick of censorship!"

These are the words of Arizona state Senator Wendy Rogers. And of course, she's a Republican. What other pearls of conservative wisdom has this bimbo been casting before us?

Apparently Volodymyr Zelenskyy is "a globalist puppet for Soros and the Clintons."

"Half of the combat footage" taken in the city of Kyiv was "a video game."

She has also called for people who she deems to be "traitors" to be publicly hanged.

This is not some mentally ill person on the street corner screaming at traffic. This is an elected politician. This is how insane conservative politicians are getting, and they're only getting worse.

I don't follow the finer details of US politics, so I don't know the story with Alex Jones, or exactly who Wendy Rogers is; but - and whatever about anything else - she's absolutely on the ball about Zelensky being a globalist puppet.
And also, while there may be some "insane conservative politicians" over there - did you never notice the wacky woke mob?! One side mirrors the other.

Where? Who's the left's equivalent of Alex Jones?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 05:17:16 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 09, 2022, 01:14:15 AM
Feds raid Mar-A-Lago

Have some plumbers checking the toilets for documents

Seemed to happen after the News Hour was recorded. I'm looking forward to seeing more about it tomorrow night. He is so busted!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 05:19:59 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZro942X0AESiEY.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 05:21:01 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZrlt4pXwAIxDKU?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 05:24:56 AM
This Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) could mean $305 billion in deficit reductions through 2031. Of course if some Rethuglican nutjob gets back into the White House then you can kiss that goodbye. Could be interesting to see Fox News spinning this. They reverted to deficit hawks the day Biden was sworn in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 06:46:10 AM
Quoth Garrett M. Graff on Twitter:

"What's the difference between this and Watergate?" Donald Trump raged in a statement Monday night after FBI agents.

Well, as a Watergate and FBI historian, four things stand out to me:

The idea the FBI launched a raid on a former president would have been approved and monitored at the highest level of the Justice Department; hard to even imagine how high the bar of probable cause must've been for the Bureau to initiate such a politically sensitive search...

A search warrant means an independent federal judge ALSO signed off on the probable cause and, independently, believes evidence there was likely a crime committed AND that more evidence would be found at Mar-a-Lago. That's huge too.

The fact the search apparently didn't leak until basically when word came from Donald Trump himself shows the FBI and the Justice Department conducted this search by the book and a high degree of integrity. No leaks? Impressive. Surely only a small team knew inside DOJ....

Taken together, this is one of the most significant, sensitive, and politically explosive actions the US Justice Department and FBI has ever taken—one of a tiny handful of times it's ever investigated a president.

Bottom line: The FBI & DOJ must've known they had the goods.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 09, 2022, 08:57:50 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 05:16:19 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2022, 01:54:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 08, 2022, 08:12:56 PM
"It's wrong what they did to Alex Jones. He should be able to criticize the official story any time he wants. I hope he appeals the verdicts because the kangaroo courts already made him guilty before the trials started. Americans should help cover his bills. Sick of censorship!"

These are the words of Arizona state Senator Wendy Rogers. And of course, she's a Republican. What other pearls of conservative wisdom has this bimbo been casting before us?

Apparently Volodymyr Zelenskyy is "a globalist puppet for Soros and the Clintons."

"Half of the combat footage" taken in the city of Kyiv was "a video game."

She has also called for people who she deems to be "traitors" to be publicly hanged.

This is not some mentally ill person on the street corner screaming at traffic. This is an elected politician. This is how insane conservative politicians are getting, and they're only getting worse.

I don't follow the finer details of US politics, so I don't know the story with Alex Jones, or exactly who Wendy Rogers is; but - and whatever about anything else - she's absolutely on the ball about Zelensky being a globalist puppet.
And also, while there may be some "insane conservative politicians" over there - did you never notice the wacky woke mob?! One side mirrors the other.

Where? Who's the left's equivalent of Alex Jones?

Eamonna1, going by this thread in the last few days  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 03:02:10 PM
Quiet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 09, 2022, 03:56:51 PM
I am not being glib here...BUT if Trump saw jail time or was even in line to be ruled out of a 2024 run, does anyone think there will be a more serious insurrection?

Like if head-the-ball is arrested that will be red rag to the MAGAs. Imagine trying to detain him or take him in for questioning!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 04:24:32 PM
Jan 6 was a security failure. The cops and national guard will be better prepared if the conservatives try that crap again. I'd love to see them try.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 09, 2022, 05:07:56 PM
This will be another embarrassment for the FBI , joe claims he knew nothing about it which is true obviously, so the question is who is making these decisions and who is running the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 09, 2022, 05:36:09 PM
Did they get anything?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 09, 2022, 05:56:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 09, 2022, 05:36:09 PM
Did they get anything?
who knows , the judge who signed search warrant is a former defense attorney for Epstein and a big democrat donor ,the  investigation is being run by the dc division who is run by same guy who came up with the whitmer entrapment kidnapping scheme , the fbi has lied and doctored documents to get warrants against Trump and his associates before so anything is possible.
Strange how the nyt reporter was on weekend news shows setting the stage about documents being flushed down toilets in White House and this happens next day . Bottom line hey want to charge Trump with a crime that stops him from running for public office and this is how they have planned to do it .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on August 09, 2022, 06:02:43 PM
Fascinating read, it's a long one - be warned.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals)

QuoteThat was never clearer than when Trump told his new chief of staff, John Kelly—like Mattis, a retired Marine Corps general—about his vision for Independence Day. "Look, I don't want any wounded guys in the parade," Trump said. "This doesn't look good for me." He explained with distaste that at the Bastille Day parade there had been several formations of injured veterans, including wheelchair-bound soldiers who had lost limbs in battle.

Kelly could not believe what he was hearing. "Those are the heroes," he told Trump. "In our society, there's only one group of people who are more heroic than they are—and they are buried over in Arlington." Kelly did not mention that his own son Robert, a lieutenant killed in action in Afghanistan, was among the dead interred there.

"I don't want them," Trump repeated. "It doesn't look good for me."

QuoteIt turned out that the generals had rules, standards, and expertise, not blind loyalty. The President's loud complaint to John Kelly one day was typical: "You f**king generals, why can't you be like the German generals?"

"Which generals?" Kelly asked.

"The German generals in World War II," Trump responded.

"You do know that they tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off?" Kelly said.

But, of course, Trump did not know that. "No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him," the President replied. In his version of history, the generals of the Third Reich had been completely subservient to Hitler; this was the model he wanted for his military. Kelly told Trump that there were no such American generals, but the President was determined to test the proposition.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 07:41:00 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on August 09, 2022, 06:02:43 PM
Fascinating read, it's a long one - be warned.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals)

QuoteThat was never clearer than when Trump told his new chief of staff, John Kelly—like Mattis, a retired Marine Corps general—about his vision for Independence Day. "Look, I don't want any wounded guys in the parade," Trump said. "This doesn't look good for me." He explained with distaste that at the Bastille Day parade there had been several formations of injured veterans, including wheelchair-bound soldiers who had lost limbs in battle.

Kelly could not believe what he was hearing. "Those are the heroes," he told Trump. "In our society, there's only one group of people who are more heroic than they are—and they are buried over in Arlington." Kelly did not mention that his own son Robert, a lieutenant killed in action in Afghanistan, was among the dead interred there.

"I don't want them," Trump repeated. "It doesn't look good for me."

QuoteIt turned out that the generals had rules, standards, and expertise, not blind loyalty. The President's loud complaint to John Kelly one day was typical: "You f**king generals, why can't you be like the German generals?"

"Which generals?" Kelly asked.

"The German generals in World War II," Trump responded.

"You do know that they tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off?" Kelly said.

But, of course, Trump did not know that. "No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him," the President replied. In his version of history, the generals of the Third Reich had been completely subservient to Hitler; this was the model he wanted for his military. Kelly told Trump that there were no such American generals, but the President was determined to test the proposition.


Jesus H Christ. The guy couldn't run a candy store and there he was in charge of the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 09, 2022, 08:01:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 09, 2022, 05:56:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 09, 2022, 05:36:09 PM
Did they get anything?
who knows , the judge who signed search warrant is a former defense attorney for Epstein and a big democrat donor ,the  investigation is being run by the dc division who is run by same guy who came up with the whitmer entrapment kidnapping scheme , the fbi has lied and doctored documents to get warrants against Trump and his associates before so anything is possible.
Strange how the nyt reporter was on weekend news shows setting the stage about documents being flushed down toilets in White House and this happens next day . Bottom line hey want to charge Trump with a crime that stops him from running for public office and this is how they have planned to do it .

Love this!! 😁😁 Would the bottom line not be that he broke a law?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 08:34:09 PM
I can't wait to see what they've got on him. It'll be like how they got Al Capone for tax evasion. Any charge will do if you can make it stick.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 08:49:33 PM
So much winning.

Quoth the WaPo:

House can view Trump's tax records, appeals court rules

A federal appeals court panel ruled Tuesday that House Democrats are entitled to review Donald Trump's tax returns for 2015 to 2020, rejecting several legal arguments by the former president, who has sought for years to keep his financial records private.

The decision by a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit was a victory for the House Ways and Means Committee, whose chairman, Rep. Richard E. Neal (D-Mass.), first requested in 2019 that the Internal Revenue Service turn over copies of Trump's tax returns to the committee. The Treasury Department initially declined, and the issue has been tied up in litigation ever since.

Trump has a week to appeal the panel's ruling, including asking the full appellate court to hear the case, before the judgment takes effect. Trump's attorney Cameron T. Norris, who is handling the appeal, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) applauded the decision, calling it "an important victory for the rule of law."

"Access to the former president's tax returns is crucial to upholding the public interest, our national security and our Democracy," Pelosi said in a statement. "We look forward to the IRS complying with this ruling and delivering the requested documents so that Ways and Means can begin its oversight responsibilities of the mandatory presidential audit program."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 08:51:59 PM
But wait! There's more!

Judge rules Giuliani must testify Aug. 17 in Georgia probe

A Georgia judge ruled Tuesday that Rudy Giuliani must testify in person on Aug. 17 to the Atlanta special grand jury investigating potential interference in the 2020 election by Donald Trump and his allies.

Fulton Superior Court Judge Robert McBurney said the date "gives (Giuliani) a week and a day to sort out whether he would travel by private coach or bus or whatever it would be."

The decision comes after Giuliani's lawyers filed an emergency motion delaying his testimony for health concerns, saying that he is unable to travel to Atlanta. The lawyers argued, as they had in court filings, that Giuliani cannot travel by plane because of a recent heart operation, instead contending that he should delay testimony or appear virtually.

McBurney said that he "doesn't want to jeopardize (Giuliani's) recovery" but noted that ground travel, such as by bus or train, did not appear to contradict the former Trump lawyer's health needs as outlined by doctors advising the court.

Lawyers for the Fulton County district attorney's office argued that Giuliani, 78, had traveled to New Hampshire after his heart procedure without issue and also said they had obtained evidence that Giuliani had purchased plane tickets in cash to Switzerland and Italy, claims Giuliani's team disputed on Tuesday.

"It's like driving to New Hampshire three times, so just do it in three legs," McBurney said of driving from New York to Atlanta. "I'm confident we could figure out a way for the breakdown that will get him to Atlanta that's not an airplane."

The special grand jury investigation has met pushback from former president Donald Trump's inner circle as prosecutors have worked to obtain testimony from those most directly connected with the former president's efforts to undermine Georgia's elections, underscoring the extent to which the criminal probe has expanded over the summer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 08:56:47 PM
Looks like the charges could be for mishandling documents. He took classified docs out of the White House and stashed them at Mar a Lago. They reckon he tore documents up regularly that should have been kept.  If he's found guilty it could be enough to stop him from running for office again. I see Pence is getting with the "leave poor Donald alone" and "I'm going to investigate the DoJ" bandwagon. Hedging his bets for a 2024 presidential run?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 09, 2022, 09:13:21 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 09, 2022, 08:01:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 09, 2022, 05:56:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 09, 2022, 05:36:09 PM
Did they get anything?
who knows , the judge who signed search warrant is a former defense attorney for Epstein and a big democrat donor ,the  investigation is being run by the dc division who is run by same guy who came up with the whitmer entrapment kidnapping scheme , the fbi has lied and doctored documents to get warrants against Trump and his associates before so anything is possible.
Strange how the nyt reporter was on weekend news shows setting the stage about documents being flushed down toilets in White House and this happens next day . Bottom line hey want to charge Trump with a crime that stops him from running for public office and this is how they have planned to do it .

Love this!! 😁😁 Would the bottom line not be that he broke a law?
like chuck said the intelligence community have six ways to Sunday to screw you if you mess with them Trump has and is finding this out the hard way , do you think someone on video banging hookers and smoking crack should be charged with a crime ? Do you think he could be compromised ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 09, 2022, 09:31:10 PM
Actually this is great for conservatives

First of all if they find nothing then it's a huge win for Trump

If they do find something it opens the door for Desantis who would be a much better candidate in 2024
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 09, 2022, 09:57:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 09, 2022, 09:31:10 PM
Actually this is great for conservatives

First of all if they find nothing then it's a huge win for Trump

If they do find something it opens the door for Desantis who would be a much better candidate in 2024
I agree
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2022, 11:00:16 PM
Seems like it was 15 boxes of presidential materials stolen by Trump from the White House, including classified documents that could put national security at risk. The National Archives have been requesting the missing docs for months.  This makes Watergate look like nothing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2022, 12:59:39 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2019, 11:31:06 AM
Trump has dementia
He should be under medical care anyway.
what do you think joe has ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2022, 01:05:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 27, 2019, 05:08:40 PM
Seriously though. This is worse than Watergate and Trump should be impeached and thrown out of office.
one of these time you might be right about watergate lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 10, 2022, 01:44:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 09, 2022, 09:31:10 PM
Actually this is great for conservatives

First of all if they find nothing then it's a huge win for Trump

If they do find something it opens the door for Desantis who would be a much better candidate in 2024
Better as in he'll be more gracious in defeat than Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2022, 03:35:59 AM
Trump set the bar so low it's subterranean.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2022, 05:25:37 PM
Looks like Trump's dwindling band of supporters can't even outnumber the media outside the scene of the crime!

QuoteOnline supporters of Trump grow louder, but the scene outside Mar-a-Lago is a different story

The Trump supporters were outnumbered by media outlets outside the Florida property after the FBI's search.

By Rob Wile
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — The online response to the FBI's search of former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago property has been swift and ominous, with predictions of a resurgence of extremism and even fears of a civil war.

But for the last 24 hours outside the 17-acre Palm Beach estate Tuesday, a convoy of local and national media have far outnumbered Trump supporters.

A couple of dozen Trump boosters converged on the site late Monday as news of the FBI's action broke, but by morning, even those meager ranks had begun to dwindle, and they had not picked up by 5 p.m.

"This is a great national story, a huge national story, and should be," said Eric Johnson, a South Florida-based Democratic political consultant. "But local people, voters, are going about their business. I don't think it matters one iota in local elections. They're still talking about inflation or whether beaches have too much erosion."

A source familiar with the matter has said Monday's search was tied to classified information Trump is alleged to have taken with him from the White House in January 2021.

Full story (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-supporters-outnumbered-media-mar-lago-fbi-search-rcna42306)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2022, 07:08:30 PM
He's pleading the fifth in NY, but "impeach Garland and abolish the FBI".

Oh and law and order and "back the blue,"

At least when they're enforcing the law on themmuns.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2022, 08:15:43 PM
Just saw a clip of the latter-day Lord Haw Haw known as Tucker Carlson ranting about the "Great Replacement." Says that the plan is to replace "legacy Americans" with "more obedient people from the third world." Apparently obedience is a bad thing, but if you're a black person interacting with cops then obedience is your duty on pain of summary execution.

The conservatives are barely hiding their fascism at this point. Extremist ideology that is confined to fringe parties in parts of Europe is full on mainstream in the Rethuglican party.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2022, 09:40:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 07:08:30 PM
He's pleading the fifth in NY, but "impeach Garland and abolish the FBI".

Oh and law and order and "back the blue,"

At least when they're enforcing the law on themmuns.
he would be some idiot if he didn't
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 10, 2022, 09:49:28 PM
Hunter on Air Force 1 going on vacation with the big guy today , life's good
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2022, 10:37:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 10, 2022, 09:40:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 07:08:30 PM
He's pleading the fifth in NY, but "impeach Garland and abolish the FBI".

Oh and law and order and "back the blue,"

At least when they're enforcing the law on themmuns.
he would be some idiot if he didn't

Should make for a nice ad if someone, anyone, in the GOP has the balls to take him on.

Maybe Larry Hogan can do it. Has he ever had to plead the fifth?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2022, 10:38:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2022, 08:15:43 PM
Just saw a clip of the latter-day Lord Haw Haw known as Tucker Carlson ranting about the "Great Replacement." Says that the plan is to replace "legacy Americans" with "more obedient people from the third world." Apparently obedience is a bad thing, but if you're a black person interacting with cops then obedience is your duty on pain of summary execution.

The conservatives are barely hiding their fascism at this point. Extremist ideology that is confined to fringe parties in parts of Europe is full on mainstream in the Rethuglican party.

They are making a holy show of themselves this week for sure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 10, 2022, 11:01:58 PM
Legacy Americans  ;D ;D

OK, I guess 'Native Americans' was out for some reason, but that's seriously the best they could do?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 10, 2022, 11:03:12 PM
What u can't understand is how Trump has not been charged with incitement to riot leading to people's deaths. Surely there some American law covers this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:07:35 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 10, 2022, 11:03:12 PM
What u can't understand is how Trump has not been charged with incitement to riot leading to people's deaths. Surely there some American law covers this?

Jan 6 committee is hard at work on the investigation.

It will be up to the DOJ to bring any charges arising out of it. The revelations a few weeks back were not helpful, to say the least, from Trump's perspective.

Trump is always happy to let others take the fall though. I expect he'll get off yet again.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2022, 11:12:56 PM
Previous quotes from Trump on people who plead the Fifth:


Guess who's pleading the Fifth now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 10, 2022, 11:25:52 PM
Well, it's a civil case, and juries are allowed infer guilt from refusal to answer (unlike in criminal cases).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 10, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.

Real estate guys pumping up the value of their properties for financing purposes and deflating them for tax purposes

Well I never heard of such carry on in my life
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.

Real estate guys pumping up the value of their properties for financing purposes and deflating them for tax purposes

Well I never heard of such carry on in my life

White collar fraud doesn't matter.

Just like refusing to pay the small companies who do the work for you.

It's all just business. Something we little people can't be expected to understand.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2022, 12:43:41 AM
Oh and Kansas voted to legalize abortion.

Kansas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 12:51:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.

Real estate guys pumping up the value of their properties for financing purposes and deflating them for tax purposes

Well I never heard of such carry on in my life

White collar fraud doesn't matter.

Just like refusing to pay the small companies who do the work for you.

It's all just business. Something we little people can't be expected to understand.
what do you think about Paul pelosi buying the semi conductor stocks just before that last bill was on the table ? Trump was rich before he got into politics and net worth had probably went down .
Eamon loves abortion,  ghoul
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2022, 02:25:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.

Real estate guys pumping up the value of their properties for financing purposes and deflating them for tax purposes

Well I never heard of such carry on in my life

White collar fraud doesn't matter.

Just like refusing to pay the small companies who do the work for you.

It's all just business. Something we little people can't be expected to understand.

Speaking As someone who has acquaintances in the real estate industry, this (within reason) is a common practice

How brazen and outrageous we're Trumps actions?  I don't know, but I'm sure we'll find out

How many other real estate developers engaged in similar actions?
How many of them are also under indictment?

But if your assessor can't accurately value a building and is relying on Trump to tell them the value, then they should be fired and you should hire someone else to do the job

FFS the Democratic Governor of IL removed the toilets from a house/mansion so it would be deemed uninhabitable and therefore not taxed

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/federal-investigators-digging-deeper-into-pritzkers-331k-property-tax-break/


And then there's the Kennedys

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlodonnell/2014/07/08/how-the-1-billion-kennedy-family-fortune-defies-death-and-taxes-3/amp/

"Thanks to a carefully crafted deal with Vornado Realty, the Kennedy family deferred – or possibly avoided completely – capital gains tax on nearly half the value of the sale"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 05:20:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 02:25:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.

Real estate guys pumping up the value of their properties for financing purposes and deflating them for tax purposes

Well I never heard of such carry on in my life

White collar fraud doesn't matter.

Just like refusing to pay the small companies who do the work for you.

It's all just business. Something we little people can't be expected to understand.

Speaking As someone who has acquaintances in the real estate industry, this (within reason) is a common practice

How brazen and outrageous we're Trumps actions?  I don't know, but I'm sure we'll find out

How many other real estate developers engaged in similar actions?
How many of them are also under indictment?

But if your assessor can't accurately value a building and is relying on Trump to tell them the value, then they should be fired and you should hire someone else to do the job

FFS the Democratic Governor of IL removed the toilets from a house/mansion so it would be deemed uninhabitable and therefore not taxed

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/federal-investigators-digging-deeper-into-pritzkers-331k-property-tax-break/


And then there's the Kennedys

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlodonnell/2014/07/08/how-the-1-billion-kennedy-family-fortune-defies-death-and-taxes-3/amp/

"Thanks to a carefully crafted deal with Vornado Realty, the Kennedy family deferred – or possibly avoided completely – capital gains tax on nearly half the value of the sale"

And am I on here downplaying what these guys did because I'm on the same side politically?

I'll have to go back and check my previous posts to see where I was crying blue murder because the authorities were correctly going after suspicions of fraud on the part of the Illinois governor.

Trump pled the fifth 400 f**king times today.

But that's all ok because he makes the libtards cry.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 05:24:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 12:51:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.

Real estate guys pumping up the value of their properties for financing purposes and deflating them for tax purposes

Well I never heard of such carry on in my life

White collar fraud doesn't matter.

Just like refusing to pay the small companies who do the work for you.

It's all just business. Something we little people can't be expected to understand.
what do you think about Paul pelosi buying the semi conductor stocks just before that last bill was on the table ? Trump was rich before he got into politics and net worth had probably went down .
Eamon loves abortion,  ghoul

They're all at the insider trading shit. Both sides.

But I'm not the one making excuses for my side when the authorities pursue corruption.

I'm personally against abortion, but I also find this no-exception bullshit the GOP are pursuing ghoulish.

And they're just getting started on contraception, gay marriage and even, unbelievably just this week, preventative care coverage in health insurance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on August 11, 2022, 08:02:17 AM
so trump supporters are threatening civil war who they going to attack and what is their plan if the us armed forces go agaisnt them what they going to do then,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:45:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 05:20:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 02:25:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.

Real estate guys pumping up the value of their properties for financing purposes and deflating them for tax purposes

Well I never heard of such carry on in my life

White collar fraud doesn't matter.

Just like refusing to pay the small companies who do the work for you.

It's all just business. Something we little people can't be expected to understand.

Speaking As someone who has acquaintances in the real estate industry, this (within reason) is a common practice

How brazen and outrageous we're Trumps actions?  I don't know, but I'm sure we'll find out

How many other real estate developers engaged in similar actions?
How many of them are also under indictment?

But if your assessor can't accurately value a building and is relying on Trump to tell them the value, then they should be fired and you should hire someone else to do the job

FFS the Democratic Governor of IL removed the toilets from a house/mansion so it would be deemed uninhabitable and therefore not taxed

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/federal-investigators-digging-deeper-into-pritzkers-331k-property-tax-break/


And then there's the Kennedys

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlodonnell/2014/07/08/how-the-1-billion-kennedy-family-fortune-defies-death-and-taxes-3/amp/

"Thanks to a carefully crafted deal with Vornado Realty, the Kennedy family deferred – or possibly avoided completely – capital gains tax on nearly half the value of the sale"

And am I on here downplaying what these guys did because I'm on the same side politically?

I'll have to go back and check my previous posts to see where I was crying blue murder because the authorities were correctly going after suspicions of fraud on the part of the Illinois governor.

Trump pled the fifth 400 f**king times today.

But that's all ok because he makes the libtards cry.



J70

I think you're missing the point (or maybe I'm not articulating it correctly)

Due to the complex legal and tax treatment of real estate, these guys, both Republican and Democrat, use every trick in the book get  out of paying property tax. It's just the way that business works

This prosecutor flat out ran for office on  a platform of "getting Trump" (I'm paraphrasing) so excuse me if I'm a little suspicious as to the validity of the charges
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on August 11, 2022, 10:40:57 AM
Of course fraud happens, but your acquaintances justifying their fraud by saying everybody is at it, so we should all be left alone is just a lie.

The IRS routinely audit such companies and go hard when they find fraud. They won't catch everyone, but they'll catch plenty and the vast majority know that so keep away from tax evasion  and fraud.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2022, 11:21:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 11, 2022, 10:40:57 AM
Of course fraud happens, but your acquaintances justifying their fraud by saying everybody is at it, so we should all be left alone is just a lie.

The IRS routinely audit such companies and go hard when they find fraud. They won't catch everyone, but they'll catch plenty and the vast majority know that so keep away from tax evasion  and fraud.

So did the Kennedys commit fraud when they avoided taxes on the sale of the Merchandise Mart or did they just use the law to their advantage?

https://jbpritzker.com/chris-kennedy-bragged-avoiding-capital-gains-tax-merchandise-mart-sale/


https://www.illinoispolicy.org/kennedy-led-company-used-madigans-firm-for-property-tax-refunds/


Real estate law and taxes are extremely complicated. That's why real estate lawyers are among  the best paid in the industry
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on August 11, 2022, 11:28:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 12:51:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.

Real estate guys pumping up the value of their properties for financing purposes and deflating them for tax purposes

Well I never heard of such carry on in my life

White collar fraud doesn't matter.

Just like refusing to pay the small companies who do the work for you.

It's all just business. Something we little people can't be expected to understand.
what do you think about Paul pelosi buying the semi conductor stocks just before that last bill was on the table ? Trump was rich before he got into politics and net worth had probably went down .
Eamon loves abortion,  ghoul

Not one new semi-conductor will be made in the US..

The US firms will take the Gov funds to set up but south of the dreaded border where it's much cheaper to manufacture. Just ask Dell, Intel, Microsoft etc etc.

Most electronics used in the US are made in Mexico if not China in origin.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:45:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 05:20:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 02:25:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 10, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 10, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Apparently his son pled the fifth 500 times in his deposition.

Trump Organization has nothing to hide though.

Real estate guys pumping up the value of their properties for financing purposes and deflating them for tax purposes

Well I never heard of such carry on in my life

White collar fraud doesn't matter.

Just like refusing to pay the small companies who do the work for you.

It's all just business. Something we little people can't be expected to understand.

Speaking As someone who has acquaintances in the real estate industry, this (within reason) is a common practice

How brazen and outrageous we're Trumps actions?  I don't know, but I'm sure we'll find out

How many other real estate developers engaged in similar actions?
How many of them are also under indictment?

But if your assessor can't accurately value a building and is relying on Trump to tell them the value, then they should be fired and you should hire someone else to do the job

FFS the Democratic Governor of IL removed the toilets from a house/mansion so it would be deemed uninhabitable and therefore not taxed

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/federal-investigators-digging-deeper-into-pritzkers-331k-property-tax-break/


And then there's the Kennedys

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlodonnell/2014/07/08/how-the-1-billion-kennedy-family-fortune-defies-death-and-taxes-3/amp/

"Thanks to a carefully crafted deal with Vornado Realty, the Kennedy family deferred – or possibly avoided completely – capital gains tax on nearly half the value of the sale"

And am I on here downplaying what these guys did because I'm on the same side politically?

I'll have to go back and check my previous posts to see where I was crying blue murder because the authorities were correctly going after suspicions of fraud on the part of the Illinois governor.

Trump pled the fifth 400 f**king times today.

But that's all ok because he makes the libtards cry.



J70

I think you're missing the point (or maybe I'm not articulating it correctly)

Due to the complex legal and tax treatment of real estate, these guys, both Republican and Democrat, use every trick in the book get  out of paying property tax. It's just the way that business works

This prosecutor flat out ran for office on  a platform of "getting Trump" (I'm paraphrasing) so excuse me if I'm a little suspicious as to the validity of the charges

There haven't been any charges yet. They're investigating. And Trump and his family are pleading the fifth to avoid self incrimination.

As to the complexity, why is it that these "complex" valuations always come out as minimal as possible when it comes to property taxes and inflated as possible when it suits Trump and his offspring?

I realize they're all at it, just like with the insider information stuff Gmac brought up, or the sale of influence that you're all so upset with Hunter Biden (and previously the Clintons) about (but not the extended Trump family of course).

That doesn't change that what the Trumps are doing is fraud. The NY AG is doing her job. Just like the Southern District of NY was doing earlier this year when the NY Lt Governor had to resign for wire fraud and bribery. Just like the GOP is NOT doing their job and didn't do their job when it came to Trump. If they'd a shred of morality and concern about their country, he'd have been impeached and out of our lives, to everyone's benefit, including their own.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2022, 02:26:20 PM
the what-about argument is getting a serious run out this morning
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2022, 03:07:00 PM
If Trump broke the law, I'm all for prosecuting him to the Nth degree

But prosecuting someone because you don't like their politics is absolutely outrageous

And that is what this looks like because that's exactly what she ran on

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 03:19:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 03:07:00 PM
If Trump broke the law, I'm all for prosecuting him to the Nth degree

But prosecuting someone because you don't like their politics is absolutely outrageous

And that is what this looks like because that's exactly what she ran on

Whereas here in NY we look at it as a diligent and gutsy prosecutor, the same one who went after the very powerful governor from her OWN party (while HIS minions made similar proclamations to yourself about her integrity), as simply doing her job and trying to hold a very corrupt man to account when an entire national political party is prostrate on the ground in front of him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2022, 04:05:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 03:19:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 03:07:00 PM
If Trump broke the law, I'm all for prosecuting him to the Nth degree

But prosecuting someone because you don't like their politics is absolutely outrageous

And that is what this looks like because that's exactly what she ran on

Whereas here in NY we look at it as a diligent and gutsy prosecutor, the same one who went after the very powerful governor from her OWN party (while HIS minions made similar proclamations to yourself about her integrity), as simply doing her job and trying to hold a very corrupt man to account when an entire national political party is prostrate on the ground in front of him.


How many other real estate developers is she currently investigating for tax fraud or is Trump the only one?

If Trump is the only one-then that's a politically motivated investigation/prosecution and EVERYONE should be outraged about that.

Weaponizing your office to target political opponents and adversaries is grounds for impeachment and removal

She as much as Sadi that's what she planned on doing in her election manifesto

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/10/politics/letitia-tish-james-new-york-attorney-general-trump/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 11, 2022, 04:08:30 PM
Trump 2016
'Anyone who takes the 5th Amendment, disgraceful',  'horrible people' 


Trump 2022
"invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination".
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62494861
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 04:30:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 04:05:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 03:19:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 03:07:00 PM
If Trump broke the law, I'm all for prosecuting him to the Nth degree

But prosecuting someone because you don't like their politics is absolutely outrageous

And that is what this looks like because that's exactly what she ran on

Whereas here in NY we look at it as a diligent and gutsy prosecutor, the same one who went after the very powerful governor from her OWN party (while HIS minions made similar proclamations to yourself about her integrity), as simply doing her job and trying to hold a very corrupt man to account when an entire national political party is prostrate on the ground in front of him.


How many other real estate developers is she currently investigating for tax fraud or is Trump the only one?

If Trump is the only one-then that's a politically motivated investigation/prosecution and EVERYONE should be outraged about that.

Weaponizing your office to target political opponents and adversaries is grounds for impeachment and removal

She as much as Sadi that's what she planned on doing in her election manifesto

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/10/politics/letitia-tish-james-new-york-attorney-general-trump/index.html

Weaponizing??  ;D

Impeachment??  ;D

How many of those other real estate developers were investigated by Congress where evidence of potential serious fraud was presented by their former right hand man/fixer, and had their accounting firm disavow a decade of financial statements?

You think those types of revelations should just be allowed to fade away into the night, especially when the President in question point blank refuses to lift the lid on his finances like every other president (and candidate) of either party in recent history?

Like I said, she was elected to do the business of the people of New York.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2022, 05:21:00 PM
Stick to the facts

She's targeting him because he's a Republican and she's not investigating any other real estate developers

Wait until the shoe is on the other foot and you'll be singing a different tune
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2022, 05:25:09 PM
Leave poor Donald alone guys  :'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 05:21:00 PM
Stick to the facts

She's targeting him because he's a Republican and she's not investigating any other real estate developers

Wait until the shoe is on the other foot and you'll be singing a different tune
Trump was impeached for suggesting zelensky take a look at what Hunter and joe Biden were doing in Ukraine but it's fine for the FBI to raid the house of a political opponent of the president ?  isn't joe supposed to have the final say and commander in chief , so who does the buck stop with , joe ? Garland ?l or the fake kidnap fbi guy from Michigan hoax . Who ordered the raid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 05:48:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 05:21:00 PM
Stick to the facts

She's targeting him because he's a Republican and she's not investigating any other real estate developers

Wait until the shoe is on the other foot and you'll be singing a different tune

Go ahead whitey and show me where I've objected to corruption or corrupt politicians being investigated. Its not like there aren't plenty of Democratic politicians who have been caught up in this stuff.

On the other hand, YOU, who are always so adamant and opinionated in ascribing the worst possible motives to anything the Dems (or the media) do, even mistakenly (even when its not even clear if its the Dems or the GOP who are responsible e.g. the Alito leak), seem fairly determined to let Trump off as easily as possible, to the point where it appears you DO think that revelations about Trump SHOULD be just allowed to scatter in the wind.

I presume you also object then to the investigation in Georgia into Trump's attempts to subvert the election down there? After all it was precipitated by released audio of phone calls and so on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 05:55:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 05:21:00 PM
Stick to the facts

She's targeting him because he's a Republican and she's not investigating any other real estate developers

Wait until the shoe is on the other foot and you'll be singing a different tune
Trump was impeached for suggesting zelensky take a look at what Hunter and joe Biden were doing in Ukraine but it's fine for the FBI to raid the house of a political opponent of the president ?  isn't joe supposed to have the final say and commander in chief , so who does the buck stop with , joe ? Garland ?l or the fake kidnap fbi guy from Michigan hoax . Who ordered the raid

"Suggestion"? ;D ;D ;D

Trump was impeached for trying to blackmail extort Zelensky into digging up dirt on Biden for Trump's personal political benefit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 06:06:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2022, 05:25:09 PM
Leave poor Donald alone guys  :'(

Sure its only official marked documents, maybe only some of them classified.

Its not like we're talking about emails. ;)

You'd wonder why Trump hasn't released the warrant at this point if its so outrageous.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 06:12:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 05:55:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 05:21:00 PM
Stick to the facts

She's targeting him because he's a Republican and she's not investigating any other real estate developers

Wait until the shoe is on the other foot and you'll be singing a different tune
Trump was impeached for suggesting zelensky take a look at what Hunter and joe Biden were doing in Ukraine but it's fine for the FBI to raid the house of a political opponent of the president ?  isn't joe supposed to have the final say and commander in chief , so who does the buck stop with , joe ? Garland ?l or the fake kidnap fbi guy from Michigan hoax . Who ordered the raid

"Suggestion"? ;D ;D ;D

Trump was impeached for trying to blackmail extort Zelensky into digging up dirt on Biden for Trump's personal political benefit.
j70 I see that racist mayor of NY wants to bus migrants back down to the border , do you agree with this ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2022, 06:26:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 06:12:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2022, 05:55:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 05:21:00 PM
Stick to the facts

She's targeting him because he's a Republican and she's not investigating any other real estate developers

Wait until the shoe is on the other foot and you'll be singing a different tune
Trump was impeached for suggesting zelensky take a look at what Hunter and joe Biden were doing in Ukraine but it's fine for the FBI to raid the house of a political opponent of the president ?  isn't joe supposed to have the final say and commander in chief , so who does the buck stop with , joe ? Garland ?l or the fake kidnap fbi guy from Michigan hoax . Who ordered the raid

"Suggestion"? ;D ;D ;D

Trump was impeached for trying to blackmail extort Zelensky into digging up dirt on Biden for Trump's personal political benefit.
j70 I see that racist mayor of NY wants to bus migrants back down to the border , do you agree with this ?

1. Changing the subject? ;)
2. On what basis are you calling Eric Adams a racist?
3. I've not seen any comment by Adams that he is going to send the migrants back to Texas. I expect he doesn't see them as political footballs rather than human beings, unlike Greg Abbott, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
4. I have seen comments from Adams stating he will send a busload of NYers down there to campaign against Abbott. Not much wrong with that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2022, 07:02:02 PM
This is from 1969 to 2017, it's hard to get up-to-date figures because it was so hard to keep up with it under Trump's admin.

(http://images.dailykos.com/images/349120/large/Crimes_by_Admin_Party_comp.png?1484243322)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2022, 07:44:11 PM
Well the AG is about to talk on this now - we'll see what happens
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2022, 08:05:43 PM
Here you go, for the benefit of the "both parties are just as corrupt" crowd:

(https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bdcf0477a9d412bb3d22851fd08b72b1-pjlq)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2022, 08:24:38 PM
30,573. The number of lies told by President Trump.

Conservatives be like: "Yeah, but what about that one time Bill Clinton told a lie? Both sides are just as bad."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 09:33:21 PM
Not much from garland , if trump has a brain he would hardly leave anything hanging around there that would incriminate him in anything. Looks like a "tip off" set the ball rolling and let's see what they got
My opinion is they wanted a warrant to ransack the place and see if they could find or if not plant something anything that might finally get trump . As a side note the judge who signed the search warrant had recused himself from a Hillary Clinton v Trump lawsuit before on the grounds that he could not be impartial to Trump because of his dislike of him , funny how they found him .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 09:33:21 PM
Not much from garland , if trump has a brain he would hardly leave anything hanging around there that would incriminate him in anything. Looks like a "tip off" set the ball rolling and let's see what they got
My opinion is they wanted a warrant to ransack the place and see if they could find or if not plant something anything that might finally get trump . As a side note the judge who signed the search warrant had recused himself from a Hillary Clinton v Trump lawsuit before on the grounds that he could not be impartial to Trump because of his dislike of him , funny how they found him .

I think Trump might have actually staged the whole thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 10:02:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 09:33:21 PM
Not much from garland , if trump has a brain he would hardly leave anything hanging around there that would incriminate him in anything. Looks like a "tip off" set the ball rolling and let's see what they got
My opinion is they wanted a warrant to ransack the place and see if they could find or if not plant something anything that might finally get trump . As a side note the judge who signed the search warrant had recused himself from a Hillary Clinton v Trump lawsuit before on the grounds that he could not be impartial to Trump because of his dislike of him , funny how they found him .

I think Trump might have actually staged the whole thing
I had that thought myself lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 12:34:11 AM
A conservative RWNJ, who participated in the January 6th insurrection, has been shot dead after attempting to attack an FBI facility in Cincinnati armed with an AR15 and firing a nail gun. The NYT has identified him as Ricky Shiffer. A social media account of the same name called for FBI agents to be "shot on sight" on the day Trump's house was raided, and called for "war" against the government.

He'll probably now be seen as a martyr for the cause.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on August 12, 2022, 11:22:23 AM
Good to see one of them sc**bag sh1t getting killed by their own medicine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 12:08:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 09:33:21 PM
Not much from garland , if trump has a brain he would hardly leave anything hanging around there that would incriminate him in anything. Looks like a "tip off" set the ball rolling and let's see what they got
My opinion is they wanted a warrant to ransack the place and see if they could find or if not plant something anything that might finally get trump . As a side note the judge who signed the search warrant had recused himself from a Hillary Clinton v Trump lawsuit before on the grounds that he could not be impartial to Trump because of his dislike of him , funny how they found him .

I think Trump might have actually staged the whole thing

Seriously?

You're wheeling out the "crazy like a fox", "3D chess" nonsense again after all these years?

About as laughable as the NY Post's front page this morning, saying that if they (the FBI) had only asked... ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 12:11:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 12:34:11 AM
A conservative RWNJ, who participated in the January 6th insurrection, has been shot dead after attempting to attack an FBI facility in Cincinnati armed with an AR15 and firing a nail gun. The NYT has identified him as Ricky Shiffer. A social media account of the same name called for FBI agents to be "shot on sight" on the day Trump's house was raided, and called for "war" against the government.

He'll probably now be seen as a martyr for the cause.

Another one sacrificed on behalf of Trump's repugnant campaign of lies, lawlessness and narcissism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2022, 12:33:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2022, 12:08:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 09:33:21 PM
Not much from garland , if trump has a brain he would hardly leave anything hanging around there that would incriminate him in anything. Looks like a "tip off" set the ball rolling and let's see what they got
My opinion is they wanted a warrant to ransack the place and see if they could find or if not plant something anything that might finally get trump . As a side note the judge who signed the search warrant had recused himself from a Hillary Clinton v Trump lawsuit before on the grounds that he could not be impartial to Trump because of his dislike of him , funny how they found him .

I think Trump might have actually staged the whole thing

Seriously?

You're wheeling out the "crazy like a fox", "3D chess" nonsense again after all these years?

About as laughable as the NY Post's front page this morning, saying that if they (the FBI) had only asked... ;D

Alls I'm saying is that they better have found something significant, otherwise this is a huge win for Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 12, 2022, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 12:33:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2022, 12:08:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 09:33:21 PM
Not much from garland , if trump has a brain he would hardly leave anything hanging around there that would incriminate him in anything. Looks like a "tip off" set the ball rolling and let's see what they got
My opinion is they wanted a warrant to ransack the place and see if they could find or if not plant something anything that might finally get trump . As a side note the judge who signed the search warrant had recused himself from a Hillary Clinton v Trump lawsuit before on the grounds that he could not be impartial to Trump because of his dislike of him , funny how they found him .

I think Trump might have actually staged the whole thing

Seriously?

You're wheeling out the "crazy like a fox", "3D chess" nonsense again after all these years?

About as laughable as the NY Post's front page this morning, saying that if they (the FBI) had only asked... ;D

Alls I'm saying is that they better have found something significant, otherwise this is a huge win for Trump

'FBI searched Trump's Mar-a-Lago home for classified nuclear weapons documents' – report
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2022, 01:07:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 12, 2022, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 12:33:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2022, 12:08:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 09:33:21 PM
Not much from garland , if trump has a brain he would hardly leave anything hanging around there that would incriminate him in anything. Looks like a "tip off" set the ball rolling and let's see what they got
My opinion is they wanted a warrant to ransack the place and see if they could find or if not plant something anything that might finally get trump . As a side note the judge who signed the search warrant had recused himself from a Hillary Clinton v Trump lawsuit before on the grounds that he could not be impartial to Trump because of his dislike of him , funny how they found him .

I think Trump might have actually staged the whole thing

Seriously?

You're wheeling out the "crazy like a fox", "3D chess" nonsense again after all these years?

About as laughable as the NY Post's front page this morning, saying that if they (the FBI) had only asked... ;D

Alls I'm saying is that they better have found something significant, otherwise this is a huge win for Trump

'FBI searched Trump's Mar-a-Lago home for classified nuclear weapons documents' – report

Just because they were looking for them, doesn't mean they actually found them or that they were ever there

After the dossier, I wouldn't put anything past the Democrats or the FBI

Plant that seed and just sit back.....wouldn't surprise me in the least
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 01:54:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 01:07:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 12, 2022, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 12:33:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2022, 12:08:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 09:33:21 PM
Not much from garland , if trump has a brain he would hardly leave anything hanging around there that would incriminate him in anything. Looks like a "tip off" set the ball rolling and let's see what they got
My opinion is they wanted a warrant to ransack the place and see if they could find or if not plant something anything that might finally get trump . As a side note the judge who signed the search warrant had recused himself from a Hillary Clinton v Trump lawsuit before on the grounds that he could not be impartial to Trump because of his dislike of him , funny how they found him .

I think Trump might have actually staged the whole thing

Seriously?

You're wheeling out the "crazy like a fox", "3D chess" nonsense again after all these years?

About as laughable as the NY Post's front page this morning, saying that if they (the FBI) had only asked... ;D

Alls I'm saying is that they better have found something significant, otherwise this is a huge win for Trump

'FBI searched Trump's Mar-a-Lago home for classified nuclear weapons documents' – report

Just because they were looking for them, doesn't mean they actually found them or that they were ever there

After the dossier, I wouldn't put anything past the Democrats or the FBI

Plant that seed and just sit back.....wouldn't surprise me in the least

By that logic, all members of the police everywhere are suspect in your eyes, is that right? Given all the shooting of unarmed black people? The racist attitudes expressed by members of police forces all across the country, documented in various cases in recent months? Do you tell your police "buddies" that you have a jaundiced attitude towards their profession?

How about the lies and anti-democratic actions of the Republican Party and especially Trump? They've been exposed time and time again.

Does your "skepticism" and application of guilt by association extend to all of them?

Or is it only those who you find politically distasteful?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 01:59:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 12:33:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2022, 12:08:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 11, 2022, 09:33:21 PM
Not much from garland , if trump has a brain he would hardly leave anything hanging around there that would incriminate him in anything. Looks like a "tip off" set the ball rolling and let's see what they got
My opinion is they wanted a warrant to ransack the place and see if they could find or if not plant something anything that might finally get trump . As a side note the judge who signed the search warrant had recused himself from a Hillary Clinton v Trump lawsuit before on the grounds that he could not be impartial to Trump because of his dislike of him , funny how they found him .

I think Trump might have actually staged the whole thing

Seriously?

You're wheeling out the "crazy like a fox", "3D chess" nonsense again after all these years?

About as laughable as the NY Post's front page this morning, saying that if they (the FBI) had only asked... ;D

Alls I'm saying is that they better have found something significant, otherwise this is a huge win for Trump

Why?

In the same week he pled the fifth 440 times, his house was raided by federal agents.

How can that be a win, never mind a huge win?

The morons like the guy who staged his suicide for Trump mission in Ohio yesterday are already on his side.

On the other hand, what right-minded person is going to be swayed by the "argument" that Trump is somehow the victim in this?

Especially when Trump has a history of himself threatening all kinds of law enforcement "justice" on his perceived enemies. He even told his opponent in a nationally televised presidential debate that she should be in jail FFS. He got impeached for trying to use the power of his office and his own private "lawyer" to get a foreign country to stitch up his eventual opponent in the following election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2022, 02:23:45 PM
J70

I have to hand it to you-you have the Democratic taking points down to a T

I was listening to Laura Coates yesterday, and that's where you must have heard the line about if you don't trust the FBI when it comes to Trump, then you cannot trust anything any law enforcement ever did in the history of law enforcement

The FBIs dealings with Trump are a litany of biased, illegal, shoddy and partisan hit jobs

Dossier, FISA Warrants, etc etc

https://nypost.com/2022/05/24/fbi-agent-testifies-in-michael-sussman-trial-about-mistake/amp/

"An FBI agent already under scrutiny over claims he withheld key information in the "Crossfire Hurricane" investigation admitted Tuesday to a screwup that led other agents to believe a probe of Trump-Russian bank links was spurred by the Justice Department — rather than a lawyer for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign."

Not to mention the head FBI guy who found the infamous Sussmann text when (conveniently) it was too late to be fully introduced as evidence
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 02:23:45 PM
J70

I have to hand it to you-you have the Democratic taking points down to a T

I was listening to Laura Coates yesterday, and that's where you must have heard the line about if you don't trust the FBI when it comes to Trump, then you cannot trust anything any law enforcement ever did in the history of law enforcement

The FBIs dealings with Trump are a litany of biased, illegal, shoddy and partisan hit jobs

Dossier, FISA Warrants, etc etc

https://nypost.com/2022/05/24/fbi-agent-testifies-in-michael-sussman-trial-about-mistake/amp/

"An FBI agent already under scrutiny over claims he withheld key information in the "Crossfire Hurricane" investigation admitted Tuesday to a screwup that led other agents to believe a probe of Trump-Russian bank links was spurred by the Justice Department — rather than a lawyer for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign."

Not to mention the head FBI guy who found the infamous Sussmann text when (conveniently) it was too late to be fully introduced as evidence

Sorry to disappoint, but my point about the police is schoolkid-level logic. If some Dem representative said something similar, then that just further illustrates how basic a concept it is.

YOU are tarring ALL work by the FBI based on the dossier and the FISA warrant (not sure what the etc. etc. refers to).

If you are doing so, then why not adopt the same attitude to police all over based on their much more extensive history of problematic behaviour?

Or if just the FBI, why not the agents in NY who leaked the info that damaged Hillary right before the 2016 election?

Why is one typical and not the other?

Convenience?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2022, 03:26:01 PM
Believe whatever you want about all this other stuff if you want

Yes-I am tarring all of the work the FBI AS IT PERTAINS TO TRUMP-that is correct!

Why should I now give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the latest issue?

(BTW-Comey told Congress that if there were "material" updates on the Hillary email server he would notify them.....which he did, when classified emails showed up on Weiners laptop. That's on Huma Abedin and Hillary-not Comey)

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/06/if-hillary-clinton-loses-this-election-it-will-be-because-of-you-and-me-an-exclusive-extract-from-huma-abedins-memoir

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 03:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 03:26:01 PM
Believe whatever you want about all this other stuff if you want

Yes-I am tarring all of the work the FBI AS IT PERTAINS TO TRUMP-that is correct!

Why should I now give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the latest issue?

(BTW-Comey told Congress that if there were "material" updates on the Hillary email server he would notify them.....which he did, when classified emails showed up on Weiners laptop. That's on Huma Abedin and Hillary-not Comey)

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/06/if-hillary-clinton-loses-this-election-it-will-be-because-of-you-and-me-an-exclusive-extract-from-huma-abedins-memoir

But I'm not advocating for police to all be tarred with the same brush.

I'm questioning your double standard.

Personally, I expect a smart man like Garland to have taken an intense interest in seeing that every i was dotted and every t crossed in this, given the stakes and the previous history.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 12, 2022, 03:58:13 PM
The liv golf tournament at trumps course last week was just a front for a S.P.E.C.T.R.E meeting where he was selling nuclear secrets to the highest bidder . World domination.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2022, 04:03:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2022, 03:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 03:26:01 PM
Believe whatever you want about all this other stuff if you want

Yes-I am tarring all of the work the FBI AS IT PERTAINS TO TRUMP-that is correct!

Why should I now give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the latest issue?

(BTW-Comey told Congress that if there were "material" updates on the Hillary email server he would notify them.....which he did, when classified emails showed up on Weiners laptop. That's on Huma Abedin and Hillary-not Comey)

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/06/if-hillary-clinton-loses-this-election-it-will-be-because-of-you-and-me-an-exclusive-extract-from-huma-abedins-memoir

But I'm not advocating for police to all be tarred with the same brush.

I'm questioning your double standard.

Personally, I expect a smart man like Garland to have taken an intense interest in seeing that every i was dotted and every t crossed in this, given the stakes and the previous history.

What double standard?

I'm stating fact-the FBIs treatment of Trump has been atrocious

Time and time again they were out to get him

Why should I now give them the benefit of the doubt ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 04:10:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2022, 03:58:13 PM
The liv golf tournament at trumps course last week was just a front for a S.P.E.C.T.R.E meeting where he was selling nuclear secrets to the highest bidder . World domination.

The irony is that you don't see that your lampoon attempt is actually much more representative of the paranoid conspiracy-based typical GOPer than anything else.

Deep state, stolen elections, great replacement theory, Italian satellites, Jade Helm, Bill Gates microchips, mass shooting false flag operations, Covid conspiracies etc.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 04:27:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 04:03:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2022, 03:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 03:26:01 PM
Believe whatever you want about all this other stuff if you want

Yes-I am tarring all of the work the FBI AS IT PERTAINS TO TRUMP-that is correct!

Why should I now give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the latest issue?

(BTW-Comey told Congress that if there were "material" updates on the Hillary email server he would notify them.....which he did, when classified emails showed up on Weiners laptop. That's on Huma Abedin and Hillary-not Comey)

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/06/if-hillary-clinton-loses-this-election-it-will-be-because-of-you-and-me-an-exclusive-extract-from-huma-abedins-memoir

But I'm not advocating for police to all be tarred with the same brush.

I'm questioning your double standard.

Personally, I expect a smart man like Garland to have taken an intense interest in seeing that every i was dotted and every t crossed in this, given the stakes and the previous history.

What double standard?

I'm stating fact-the FBIs treatment of Trump has been atrocious

Time and time again they were out to get him

Why should I now give them the benefit of the doubt ?

The double standard is that you don't hesitate to give the benefit of the doubt to non-federal police, despite all of the problematic revelations about US policing.

As for the "atrocious" treatment of poor Trump, I'm sorry, but I don't see it. The man, at best, skirts the law most of the time, has been at war with all of the intelligence agencies since he was a candidate, has openly and surreptitiously called for interference and help by foreign entities on his behalf, has behaved in a completely cavalier manner with sensitive information, and has attempted to obstruct and interfere with multiple investigations. If you act like he does, you're begging to get investigated. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2022, 04:55:33 PM
My interactions of the police have (so far) all been positive so I would have no reason NOT to give them the benefit of the doubt

If I'm the other hand I was a person of color, I would not give the police the benefit of the doubt (and as speaking a white person I would agree with them )

The difference is, I wouldn't scold them for doing so (the way you're scolding m)e-that's their lived experience and I respect it

As a conservative I don't give the FBI the benefit of the doubt based on their actions going all the way back to the dossier. Time and time again they have displayed incredible dishonesty when it comes to their dealings with Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 12, 2022, 11:22:23 AM
Good to see one of them sc**bag sh1t getting killed by their own medicine.

Indeed. Slap it up him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 05:17:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 04:55:33 PM
My interactions of the police have (so far) all been positive so I would have no reason NOT to give them the benefit of the doubt

If I'm the other hand I was a person of color, I would not give the police the benefit of the doubt (and as speaking a white person I would agree with them )

The difference is, I wouldn't scold them for doing so (the way you're scolding m)e-that's their lived experience and I respect it

As a conservative I don't give the FBI the benefit of the doubt based on their actions going all the way back to the dossier. Time and time again they have displayed incredible dishonesty when it comes to their dealings with Trump

Sorry if you felt scolded.

I'm glad you accept the conflicting experiences of US policing by race, including white privilege; hopefully such realism will become more widespread among the US right.

And hopefully the steady, considered hand of Merrick Garland will restore your faith in the FBI's treatment of poor Mr. Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on August 12, 2022, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 04:55:33 PM
My interactions of the police have (so far) all been positive so I would have no reason NOT to give them the benefit of the doubt

If I'm the other hand I was a person of color, I would not give the police the benefit of the doubt (and as speaking a white person I would agree with them )

The difference is, I wouldn't scold them for doing so (the way you're scolding m)e-that's their lived experience and I respect it

As a conservative I don't give the FBI the benefit of the doubt based on their actions going all the way back to the dossier. Time and time again they have displayed incredible dishonesty when it comes to their dealings with Trump

Time and Time again Trump has displayed incredible dishonesty when it comes to dealing with his role as the president, his instigation of the Jan 6th insurrection. I think he is actually incapable of telling a truth. He doesn't get a by ball here, when you live by the sword you die by the sword.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 05:19:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 12, 2022, 11:22:23 AM
Good to see one of them sc**bag sh1t getting killed by their own medicine.

Indeed. Slap it up him.

Don't know.

Part of me feels pity for people like that. Dumb, misguided fools being led and manipulated by a corrupt, self-interested, evil grifter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 05:22:02 PM
I have zero sympathy. People that get radicalised on a diet of Fox News or OAN might end up completely disconnected from the reality of what's happening in the world, but they still know what they're doing when they go out with an assault rifle with intent to kill people. Personal responsibility and all that. He knew what he was doing, even if he didn't know why he was doing it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2022, 05:39:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 05:22:02 PM
I have zero sympathy. People that get radicalised on a diet of Fox News or OAN might end up completely disconnected from the reality of what's happening in the world, but they still know what they're doing when they go out with an assault rifle with intent to kill people. Personal responsibility and all that. He knew what he was doing, even if he didn't know why he was doing it.

That's fair. Most of them just hang their Trump flags and wear their shirts, obsessively hate "libtards", vote for conspiracy theorists and bigots and let it define themselves that way. They don't head out to directly kill perceived enemies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2022, 06:43:56 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on August 12, 2022, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2022, 04:55:33 PM
My interactions of the police have (so far) all been positive so I would have no reason NOT to give them the benefit of the doubt

If I'm the other hand I was a person of color, I would not give the police the benefit of the doubt (and as speaking a white person I would agree with them )

The difference is, I wouldn't scold them for doing so (the way you're scolding m)e-that's their lived experience and I respect it

As a conservative I don't give the FBI the benefit of the doubt based on their actions going all the way back to the dossier. Time and time again they have displayed incredible dishonesty when it comes to their dealings with Trump

Time and Time again Trump has displayed incredible dishonesty when it comes to dealing with his role as the president, his instigation of the Jan 6th insurrection. I think he is actually incapable of telling a truth. He doesn't get a by ball here, when you live by the sword you die by the sword.

The dossier and the FISA abuses occurred long before Trump ever even got elected

Jim Comey, as FBI Director, actually admitted and even laughed about tricking Mike Flynn in the first days of the new administration

The behavior of the FBI has been nothing short of scandalous in its treatment of Trump

Just because Trump is a d1ck, doesn't give the FBI the right to break the law


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 12, 2022, 08:26:30 PM
Violations of the Espionage Act you say?  :D

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/TijL9TieqPfLq/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611ca52beb8543156af95085da4764998172875d208&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 09:42:38 PM
QuoteOpinion: The Mar-a-Lago search, through the eyes of a veteran FBI agent
As a nation of laws, we've never had a president who has been so antipathetic toward them

By FRANK MONTOYA JR.


Let me start by stating the obvious.

The execution of a federal search warrant at the residence of a former U.S. president is more than an extraordinary occurrence.

Fact is, things like that just don't happen.

Pick a presidential scandal in our history —Teapot Dome, Watergate, Iran-Contra or Whitewater. It just doesn't happen. Not until Monday, anyway, when a host of FBI special agents, lawful warrant in hand, rewrote the history books forever.

Now, let me tell you why the FBI search of the former president's Mar-a-Lago residence in Florida on Monday is such a big deal.

The former president of the United States is suspected of committing a crime. As obvious as that may seem given all that has transpired over the past seven years — yes, you would be spot on for thinking "duh" — the fact of the matter is that, as a nation of laws, we've never had a president who has been so antipathetic towards them.

Still, while no one, not even a former president, is above the law, the presumption of innocence is an important tenet of American jurisprudence. We, all of us, even corrupt former presidents, are afforded the rights set forth in the U.S. Constitution when it comes to things like searches and seizures, protections against self-incrimination, and the right to trial by jury.

Two centuries of justice under a constitutionally established rule of law ensures that.

Which is why the criticisms coming from the supporters rushing to the former president's defense in the wake of the search make no sense. Those supporters, many of whom are lawyers, know what due process and the rules of evidence are. They claim to be well-versed in the Bill of Rights. What's more, their phony outrage directly undermines that long tradition of American jurisprudence.

The FBI executes search warrants all the time. Contrary to the fearmongers and conspiracy theorists amongst us, they are not political acts. The reason for their use is simple and straightforward — to find evidence of a crime.

Monday's activity at Mar-a-Lago was just the execution of a search warrant. An investigative step. While the former president's own attorney has already indicated "paper" was seized — which means investigators got something — it must be reviewed and determined if it can support further investigation.

That said, I can't help but think about what happened to Paul Manafort (the former president's campaign manager) and Michael Cohen (his former personal attorney) after their residences were searched. The PC standards for them were very high, too, and yet look at what they yielded.

Indictments. Arrests. Convictions.

The FBI and its DOJ partners know what's at stake. And they know what they must do to serve justice. It's never an easy task, especially with a subject as wily (and lucky) as the former president, but this time I can't help but feel like they are finally onto something that will stick.

What's more, despite all the accusations the minority leader of the House of Representatives leveled at DOJ and the FBI in the aftermath of the search, the simple truth is that it was  the crass incompetence and blatant disregard for American values that have marred the former president's cult of personality since its inception.

The cult, it seems, is finally collapsing under its own gross obesity. As it does, we may be getting to the point that the myth the former president could shoot someone on Fifth Ave. and not lose any votes is about to be shattered.

Frank Montoya Jr. is a retired FBI senior official who served as the national counterintelligence executive, Office of the Director of National Intelligence and special agent in charge of two FBI field offices. ©2022 New York Daily News. Distributed by Tribune Content Agency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 10:00:23 PM
Q: What's a MAGA's favourite holiday?
A: Halloween. Because they pump kin!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 11:43:53 PM
The screw tightens on the vast criminal enterprise that is Trump and his minions. Even the smaller scandals in the Trumpiverse are bigger than anything the conservatives can dream up on the other side.

QuoteJudge denies Trump Org and former CFO's motion to dismiss tax fraud indictment.

New York (CNN Business)A New York state judge denied the Trump Organization and its former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg's motions to dismiss tax fraud charges during a hearing Friday.

Judge Juan Merchan said he would grant a hearing to hear arguments over whether statements Weisselberg made while in custody the day of his arrest in July 2021 could be suppressed. The Manhattan district attorney's office did not oppose the hearing but opposed the motion.

Weisselberg and the Trump Organization were indicted last year on charges they were involved in a 15-year tax fraud scheme. They both pleaded not guilty.

The judge said jury selection would begin in the trial on October 24.

Full story... (https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/investing/trump-org-allen-weisselberg-tax-fraud-hearing/index.html)

I expect Fox News and the two resident MAGAs here to ramp up the "Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden" rhetoric in the next few days now that Trump edges closer to doing time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 12, 2022, 11:47:01 PM
Trump's never doing time; forget it Eamon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2022, 12:37:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 11:43:53 PM
The screw tightens on the vast criminal enterprise that is Trump and his minions. Even the smaller scandals in the Trumpiverse are bigger than anything the conservatives can dream up on the other side.

QuoteJudge denies Trump Org and former CFO's motion to dismiss tax fraud indictment.

New York (CNN Business)A New York state judge denied the Trump Organization and its former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg's motions to dismiss tax fraud charges during a hearing Friday.

Judge Juan Merchan said he would grant a hearing to hear arguments over whether statements Weisselberg made while in custody the day of his arrest in July 2021 could be suppressed. The Manhattan district attorney's office did not oppose the hearing but opposed the motion.

Weisselberg and the Trump Organization were indicted last year on charges they were involved in a 15-year tax fraud scheme. They both pleaded not guilty.

The judge said jury selection would begin in the trial on October 24.

Full story... (https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/investing/trump-org-allen-weisselberg-tax-fraud-hearing/index.html)

I expect Fox News and the two resident MAGAs here to ramp up the "Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden" rhetoric in the next few days now that Trump edges closer to doing time.
eamon I'm not taking this well at all , can you give me a call ? Oh sorry
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2022, 01:08:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2022, 12:37:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2022, 11:43:53 PM
The screw tightens on the vast criminal enterprise that is Trump and his minions. Even the smaller scandals in the Trumpiverse are bigger than anything the conservatives can dream up on the other side.

QuoteJudge denies Trump Org and former CFO's motion to dismiss tax fraud indictment.

New York (CNN Business)A New York state judge denied the Trump Organization and its former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg's motions to dismiss tax fraud charges during a hearing Friday.

Judge Juan Merchan said he would grant a hearing to hear arguments over whether statements Weisselberg made while in custody the day of his arrest in July 2021 could be suppressed. The Manhattan district attorney's office did not oppose the hearing but opposed the motion.

Weisselberg and the Trump Organization were indicted last year on charges they were involved in a 15-year tax fraud scheme. They both pleaded not guilty.

The judge said jury selection would begin in the trial on October 24.

Full story... (https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/investing/trump-org-allen-weisselberg-tax-fraud-hearing/index.html)

I expect Fox News and the two resident MAGAs here to ramp up the "Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden" rhetoric in the next few days now that Trump edges closer to doing time.
eamon I'm not taking this well at all , can you give me a call ? Oh sorry

If Trump broke the law, he should suffer the consequences.....but I wouldn't  hold my breath

I'll go out in a limb and say that this whole raid at Mar A Largo is  a whole lot of nothing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2022, 01:56:43 AM
I agree he'll likely get away with everything like he always does (someone else will take the fall), but he and the rest of the right would be screaming bloody murder if a Dem president had been stashing "top secret" documents in their private residence/club.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2022, 02:57:45 PM
Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but one of the stories doing the rounds is that Trump retained documents pertaining to Operation Crossfire Hurricane which would make all the sense in the world


And if any of you remember back, when the hearings were held into the FISA warrants the same rhetoric about national security threats were spread by the media that are being spread today......which ended up being a pile of complete hogwash
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2022, 05:48:35 PM
Whitey, you're always desperately trying to defend the indefensible when it comes to Trump and the GOP. The "real" story is always how they're the victims and the Dems are evil and corrupt.

Whatever gets you through the night, I guess.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2022, 06:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2022, 05:48:35 PM
Whitey, you're always desperately trying to defend the indefensible when it comes to Trump and the GOP. The "real" story is always how they're the victims and the Dems are evil and corrupt.

Whatever gets you through the night, I guess.

Given the egregious misconduct in their prior dealings with him, I wouldn't blame him for a little CYA

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/06/15/justice-department-inspector-general-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-email-fbi-column/704815002/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2022, 06:40:16 PM
Nuclear secrets so important they wait 19 months to get them ?
Find a judge who has personally said he hates trump to sign the warrant
Make the warrant so vague they can take what they want
Leak to press about nuclear secrets to try set narrative
Ransack the place to Try find anything that will stick to trump so they can charge him with any crime
Banana republic stuff, show me the man and I show you the crime ,quote from lavrentiy Beria stalins head of secret police .
Btw garland is not bitter at all about being locked out of Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 13, 2022, 06:48:04 PM
So GMac,  saying you obviously got the blinkers on in relation to republicans,  do you not think any other person who inciting a riot leading to deaths, like trump,  should be charged?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2022, 07:39:36 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 13, 2022, 06:48:04 PM
So GMac,  saying you obviously got the blinkers on in relation to republicans,  do you not think any other person who inciting a riot leading to deaths, like trump,  should be charged?
when did that happen?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2022, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 13, 2022, 06:48:04 PM
So GMac,  saying you obviously got the blinkers on in relation to republicans,  do you not think any other person who inciting a riot leading to deaths, like trump,  should be charged?

They got the warrant on Friday but didn't execute until Monday

Do you think they were waiting for the news cycle to roll over ?

Must have been some really sensitive info that it could have sat there over the weekend unsecured
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 13, 2022, 08:28:39 PM
This is bloody hilarious to be fair
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on August 13, 2022, 08:47:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2022, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 13, 2022, 06:48:04 PM
So GMac,  saying you obviously got the blinkers on in relation to republicans,  do you not think any other person who inciting a riot leading to deaths, like trump,  should be charged?

They got the warrant on Friday but didn't execute until Monday

Do you think they were waiting for the news cycle to roll over ?

Must have been some really sensitive info that it could have sat there over the weekend unsecured

Kushner got 2 billion from the Saudis and everyone wondered what it was for. I think we can all guess now. The trumps selling on nuclear secrets to foreign governments, trump will do anything for money.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2022, 09:34:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 13, 2022, 08:47:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2022, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 13, 2022, 06:48:04 PM
So GMac,  saying you obviously got the blinkers on in relation to republicans,  do you not think any other person who inciting a riot leading to deaths, like trump,  should be charged?

They got the warrant on Friday but didn't execute until Monday

Do you think they were waiting for the news cycle to roll over ?

Must have been some really sensitive info that it could have sat there over the weekend unsecured

Kushner got 2 billion from the Saudis and everyone wondered what it was for. I think we can all guess now. The trumps selling on nuclear secrets to foreign governments, trump will do anything for money.

What proof do you have that any nuclear secrets were uncovered at Mar A Largo

Apart from a WaPo "exclusive" I don't think there has been any other evidence of such a finding
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on August 13, 2022, 09:51:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2022, 09:34:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 13, 2022, 08:47:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2022, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 13, 2022, 06:48:04 PM
So GMac,  saying you obviously got the blinkers on in relation to republicans,  do you not think any other person who inciting a riot leading to deaths, like trump,  should be charged?

They got the warrant on Friday but didn't execute until Monday

Do you think they were waiting for the news cycle to roll over ?

Must have been some really sensitive info that it could have sat there over the weekend unsecured

Kushner got 2 billion from the Saudis and everyone wondered what it was for. I think we can all guess now. The trumps selling on nuclear secrets to foreign governments, trump will do anything for money.

What proof do you have that any nuclear secrets were uncovered at Mar A Largo

Apart from a WaPo "exclusive" I don't think there has been any other evidence of such a finding

I obviously don't have any proof but the FBI seem to be gathering up plenty of evidence. We'll find out in due course but because of the character of trump I'd be way more surprised if it turned out he wasn't selling state secrets to rogue states.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2022, 09:59:53 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 13, 2022, 09:51:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2022, 09:34:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 13, 2022, 08:47:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2022, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 13, 2022, 06:48:04 PM
So GMac,  saying you obviously got the blinkers on in relation to republicans,  do you not think any other person who inciting a riot leading to deaths, like trump,  should be charged?

They got the warrant on Friday but didn't execute until Monday

Do you think they were waiting for the news cycle to roll over ?

Must have been some really sensitive info that it could have sat there over the weekend unsecured

Kushner got 2 billion from the Saudis and everyone wondered what it was for. I think we can all guess now. The trumps selling on nuclear secrets to foreign governments, trump will do anything for money.

What proof do you have that any nuclear secrets were uncovered at Mar A Largo

Apart from a WaPo "exclusive" I don't think there has been any other evidence of such a finding

I obviously don't have any proof but the FBI seem to be gathering up plenty of evidence. We'll find out in due course but because of the character of trump I'd be way more surprised if it turned out he wasn't selling state secrets to rogue states.

So if nuclear secrets were potentially at risk, why did they wait 2-3 days from when the warrant was issued to when the raid was conducted?

Makes absolutely zero sense

Just because the MSM reports something, doesn't mean it's true.....especially when it comes to Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 14, 2022, 03:05:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 13, 2022, 08:28:39 PM
This is bloody hilarious to be fair

It is.;D

They're even dragging Stalin's goons into it in their desperation to distract.

They want us to believe that there is no middle ground, whatsoever, between Trump stealing the nuclear launch codes and it all being completely an FBI conspiracy.

(https://c.tenor.com/j5YcO9slE7YAAAAC/leslie-nielsen-nothing-to-see-here.gif)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 15, 2022, 12:37:05 AM
Conservatives:

Trump didn't take any WH papers.  This is just a witch hunt by the Democratically controlled FBI.

OK, the FBI is run by a Trump appointee.  But the judge who approved the warrant is corrupt.

OK, the judge is also a Trump appointee, but the papers weren't classified.  This is all made up by the Dems - release the warrant to the public!

Wait, you actually released the warrant?!? Well, he did take papers but they weren't classified.

Well, some were classified, but the FBI planted them there.

In any case Trump declassified them, including the ones that the FBI planted.

What do you mean Trump can't declassify documents about nuclear defense systems?  He's still the rightful president - he can do whatever he wants!

__________
Thats' the problem with lying - it's impossible to keep your stories straight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 15, 2022, 01:18:16 AM
I read  from reputable sources that repeated requests had been made  over a long period of time to Trump to return classified documents taken from the White House and in  June his lawyer wrote a letter on behalf of Trump that there were no classified documents.
The FBI have stated that some of the documents carry the highest top secret classification possible.
Probable cause exists to to investigate three federal crimes, violations of the Espionage Act, obstruction of justice and criminal handling of government records.

The republican party and like-minded media meltdown is hilarious, how much they are inserted so far up the backside of this narcissist crook.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 15, 2022, 06:06:19 PM
But her emails! See? Both parties are just as bad! ~sarc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 03:38:52 AM
Doj doesn't want the affidavit unsealed which led to warrant being issued on the Trump raid what are they hiding?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on August 16, 2022, 05:31:43 AM
The names of people that your crowd would hound and harass for starters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 16, 2022, 05:31:43 AM
The names of people that your crowd would hound and harass for starters.

If only hounding and harassment were the limit of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 02:54:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 16, 2022, 05:31:43 AM
The names of people that your crowd would hound and harass for starters.

If only hounding and harassment were the limit of it.
like what was happening to Supreme Court justices with the wrong opinions?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:53:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 02:54:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 16, 2022, 05:31:43 AM
The names of people that your crowd would hound and harass for starters.

If only hounding and harassment were the limit of it.
like what was happening to Supreme Court justices with the wrong opinions?

Sure.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 04:53:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:53:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 02:54:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 16, 2022, 05:31:43 AM
The names of people that your crowd would hound and harass for starters.

If only hounding and harassment were the limit of it.
like what was happening to Supreme Court justices with the wrong opinions?

Sure.
its illegal to protest outside the homes of Supreme Court justices  but I guess Garland only enforces parts of the law that suit him and his leaders .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 05:01:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 04:53:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:53:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 02:54:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: omochain on August 16, 2022, 05:31:43 AM
The names of people that your crowd would hound and harass for starters.

If only hounding and harassment were the limit of it.
like what was happening to Supreme Court justices with the wrong opinions?

Sure.
its illegal to protest outside the homes of Supreme Court justices  but I guess Garland only enforces parts of the law that suit him and his leaders .

I've no idea.

Is it illegal to protest outside their homes?

If so, how far away can they congregate, and is that under his jurisdiction, as opposed to local police?

If it is under DOJ jurisdiction, is it a fact that they're allowing protestors to break the law?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2022, 09:47:25 PM
Trump's former CFO is getting ready to take a plea deal. He'll likely do 5 months. He was charged last year on a dozen counts of tax fraud and falsifying business records for awarding "off the books" benefits to company executives. It'll be interesting to see what further investigations he cooperates with in exchange for the light sentence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2022, 04:21:32 PM
Giuliani to testify today before an Atlanta grand jury concerning Trump's hare-brained scheme to overturn the Georgia election results.

How's Trump going to mount a 2024 campaign when he's so tied up with all the legal problems he's created for himself?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2022, 04:21:32 PM
Giuliani to testify today before an Atlanta grand jury concerning Trump's hare-brained scheme to overturn the Georgia election results.

How's Trump going to mount a 2024 campaign when he's so tied up with all the legal problems he's created for himself?

Ah sure they were only trying to "find" a measly 12,000 votes.

Was it ever established if said votes were missing or ones they wanted to go missing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2022, 06:07:34 PM
Alex Jones to face defamation case in Connecticut, and his bankruptcy filing is not going to protect him.

There's hope for this country yet. The forces of conservatism are on the run.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2022, 06:08:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2022, 04:21:32 PM
Giuliani to testify today before an Atlanta grand jury concerning Trump's hare-brained scheme to overturn the Georgia election results.

How's Trump going to mount a 2024 campaign when he's so tied up with all the legal problems he's created for himself?

Ah sure they were only trying to "find" a measly 12,000 votes.

Was it ever established if said votes were missing or ones they wanted to go missing?

It was the first time in his life Trump didn't get what he wanted. And he couldn't take it, like the petulant man-child he is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2022, 06:16:11 PM
Good piece from Charlie Sykes on Liz Cheney.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/cheney-wyoming-election-results-liz-loses-does-trump-win-n1297993 (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/cheney-wyoming-election-results-liz-loses-does-trump-win-n1297993)

History will be kind to her conduct this past 18 months. I disagree with most of her political opinions, and in the before times when policy opinions were what mattered, I couldn't stand her or her dour neocon views. Unfortunately for most of us, policy opinions are fairly irrelevant when democracy itself is on the table.

The likes of the flatworm-esque Kevin McCarthy... history will not be kind. I don't know how that man can look himself in the mirror.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2022, 06:26:31 PM
A rare Republican with a bit of integrity. The GOP is a lot further down the dark path now. They're full on fascists and they'll scrap democracy in America if they're not brought to their knees.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on August 17, 2022, 06:32:53 PM
How to train your kid to go to school, US style.
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1559850072447352834

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on August 17, 2022, 06:58:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2022, 06:26:31 PM
A rare Republican with a bit of integrity. The GOP is a lot further down the dark path now. They're full on fascists and they'll scrap democracy in America if they're not brought to their knees.

same with the tories
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2022, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 17, 2022, 06:32:53 PM
How to train your kid to go to school, US style.
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1559850072447352834

That's a policy failure right there. "Land of the free" my ass.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2022, 07:31:43 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299879312_435900815231515_1201901363409419051_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=rbcEW2jmtiAAX8v4OcP&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_NbOevQjWleo4bBjIIlv-M2ytvV9OTgTOACmswLJN3Ug&oe=6301A3B2)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 19, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

These whackjobs are sick in the head.

Hopefully the backlash will be swift and these ghouls voted off these school boards across the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2022, 06:24:38 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299693661_10226054159634435_102264519464544332_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=46cLITsdpuAAX-77j6L&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9TXvIW69I-36cVSREsPaUv3t3CSMIyMuH14U1E0-A5BQ&oe=63058F6B)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on August 19, 2022, 08:37:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

These whackjobs are sick in the head.

Hopefully the backlash will be swift and these ghouls voted off these school boards across the country.

At last - the pendulum swings!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2022, 01:19:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

These whackjobs are sick in the head.

Hopefully the backlash will be swift and these ghouls voted off these school boards across the country.

J70

Speaking of "whack jobs" have you ever taken a look at "Libs of Tik Tok" on Twitter ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 20, 2022, 03:33:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 01:19:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

These whackjobs are sick in the head.

Hopefully the backlash will be swift and these ghouls voted off these school boards across the country.

J70

Speaking of "whack jobs" have you ever taken a look at "Libs of Tik Tok" on Twitter ?
Speaking here of republicans cancelling history, cancelling education and cancelling Anne Frank.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2022, 03:47:18 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2022, 03:33:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 01:19:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

These whackjobs are sick in the head.

Hopefully the backlash will be swift and these ghouls voted off these school boards across the country.

J70

Speaking of "whack jobs" have you ever taken a look at "Libs of Tik Tok" on Twitter ?
Speaking here of republicans cancelling history, cancelling education and cancelling Anne Frank.

I know....just pointing out that the extreme reactions by those whack jobs on the right is simply a response to the whack jobs on the left

Do you have kids in high school over here?  It's complete and utter madness what's going on.

(Edit...And of course, now that I've spent all of 5 minutes checking out if this is actually true......all is not what it seems)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/anne-frank-diary-banned-texas/

"Aside from the books mentioned in above video, the list of 41 previously challenged items included a graphic novel edition of Frank's diary that was first published in 2018, titled, "Anne Frank's Diary: The Graphic Adaptation." The Bible also made the list. According to the Keller ISD website, each of the two books had apparently been challenged by a lone parent. The graphic novel version of Frank's work purportedly contains "references to female genitalia, same-sex attraction, and other sexual matters," according to the reporting from The Times of Israel.

At the same time, the more than 50 copies of the standard edition of Frank's "The Diary of a Young Girl" that were available in the school district's libraries were never challenged or removed from shelves, according to a statement from the superintendent, Rick Westfall. This was one fact that wasn't mentioned in many of the popular Facebook posts about this rumor."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 20, 2022, 04:01:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 03:47:18 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2022, 03:33:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 01:19:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

These whackjobs are sick in the head.

Hopefully the backlash will be swift and these ghouls voted off these school boards across the country.

J70

Speaking of "whack jobs" have you ever taken a look at "Libs of Tik Tok" on Twitter ?
Speaking here of republicans cancelling history, cancelling education and cancelling Anne Frank.

I know....just pointing out that the extreme reactions by those whack jobs on the right is simply a response to the whack jobs on the left

Do you have kids in high school over here?  It's complete and utter madness what's going on.

(Edit...And of course, now that I've spent all of 5 minutes checking out if this is actually true......all is not what it seems)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/anne-frank-diary-banned-texas/

"Aside from the books mentioned in above video, the list of 41 previously challenged items included a graphic novel edition of Frank's diary that was first published in 2018, titled, "Anne Frank's Diary: The Graphic Adaptation." The Bible also made the list. According to the Keller ISD website, each of the two books had apparently been challenged by a lone parent. The graphic novel version of Frank's work purportedly contains "references to female genitalia, same-sex attraction, and other sexual matters," according to the reporting from The Times of Israel.

At the same time, the more than 50 copies of the standard edition of Frank's "The Diary of a Young Girl" that were available in the school district's libraries were never challenged or removed from shelves, according to a statement from the superintendent, Rick Westfall. This was one fact that wasn't mentioned in many of the popular Facebook posts about this rumor."
Jesus wept ...again          those lefty liberals caused us righteous folk to ban Anne Frank
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2022, 04:14:25 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2022, 04:01:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 03:47:18 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2022, 03:33:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 01:19:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

These whackjobs are sick in the head.

Hopefully the backlash will be swift and these ghouls voted off these school boards across the country.

J70

Speaking of "whack jobs" have you ever taken a look at "Libs of Tik Tok" on Twitter ?
Speaking here of republicans cancelling history, cancelling education and cancelling Anne Frank.

I know....just pointing out that the extreme reactions by those whack jobs on the right is simply a response to the whack jobs on the left

Do you have kids in high school over here?  It's complete and utter madness what's going on.

(Edit...And of course, now that I've spent all of 5 minutes checking out if this is actually true......all is not what it seems)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/anne-frank-diary-banned-texas/

"Aside from the books mentioned in above video, the list of 41 previously challenged items included a graphic novel edition of Frank's diary that was first published in 2018, titled, "Anne Frank's Diary: The Graphic Adaptation." The Bible also made the list. According to the Keller ISD website, each of the two books had apparently been challenged by a lone parent. The graphic novel version of Frank's work purportedly contains "references to female genitalia, same-sex attraction, and other sexual matters," according to the reporting from The Times of Israel.

At the same time, the more than 50 copies of the standard edition of Frank's "The Diary of a Young Girl" that were available in the school district's libraries were never challenged or removed from shelves, according to a statement from the superintendent, Rick Westfall. This was one fact that wasn't mentioned in many of the popular Facebook posts about this rumor."
Jesus wept ...again          those lefty liberals caused us righteous folk to ban Anne Frank

Who said that?

Democrat madness in the schools has led to Republican madness on the School Boards. One is as bad as the other

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 20, 2022, 06:06:27 AM
So when you read past the headline it was one parent who complained and they didn't even show up at the meeting to discuss it. People on the left losing the run of themselves jumping on this one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 20, 2022, 08:38:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 20, 2022, 06:06:27 AM
So when you read past the headline it was one parent who complained and they didn't even show up at the meeting to discuss it. People on the left losing the run of themselves jumping on this one.

Not only that but (a) 50 copies of the regular edition of the Diary of Anne Frank we're still available in the library (b) the Bible was also "banned"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 20, 2022, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

Might want to delete this after the actual story has been explained and its not at all what you said.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 21, 2022, 02:39:23 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 20, 2022, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

Might want to delete this after the actual story has been explained and its not at all what you said.
Why delete it, it's fact.
Just because they /tex school district) profess to have changed their mind on the banning of Anne Frank after protests, does not alter history.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 21, 2022, 02:41:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 04:14:25 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2022, 04:01:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 03:47:18 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2022, 03:33:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 01:19:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

These whackjobs are sick in the head.

Hopefully the backlash will be swift and these ghouls voted off these school boards across the country.

J70

Speaking of "whack jobs" have you ever taken a look at "Libs of Tik Tok" on Twitter ?
Speaking here of republicans cancelling history, cancelling education and cancelling Anne Frank.

I know....just pointing out that the extreme reactions by those whack jobs on the right is simply a response to the whack jobs on the left

Do you have kids in high school over here?  It's complete and utter madness what's going on.

(Edit...And of course, now that I've spent all of 5 minutes checking out if this is actually true......all is not what it seems)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/anne-frank-diary-banned-texas/

"Aside from the books mentioned in above video, the list of 41 previously challenged items included a graphic novel edition of Frank's diary that was first published in 2018, titled, "Anne Frank's Diary: The Graphic Adaptation." The Bible also made the list. According to the Keller ISD website, each of the two books had apparently been challenged by a lone parent. The graphic novel version of Frank's work purportedly contains "references to female genitalia, same-sex attraction, and other sexual matters," according to the reporting from The Times of Israel.

At the same time, the more than 50 copies of the standard edition of Frank's "The Diary of a Young Girl" that were available in the school district's libraries were never challenged or removed from shelves, according to a statement from the superintendent, Rick Westfall. This was one fact that wasn't mentioned in many of the popular Facebook posts about this rumor."
Jesus wept ...again          those lefty liberals caused us righteous folk to ban Anne Frank

Who said that?

Democrat madness in the schools has led to Republican madness on the School Boards. One is as bad as the other
Yes It was a democrat who inspired me to be a crazy bigot, themmuns are to blame.
FFS  you are devoid of rationality :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 21, 2022, 03:30:57 AM
Believe whatever you want

The Republicans taking over these school committees is a direct response to the madness going n in a lot of school districts

Did you have a chance to check out libs of TikTok yet?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 22, 2022, 04:37:03 PM
Conservatives: People need to take personal responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming others for all their problems.
Also conservatives: Yes I'm a hateful bigot who would have been right at home as a white person in Apartheid South Africa or the slave-owning south, but them awful Democrats made me do it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 22, 2022, 05:46:52 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 22, 2022, 04:37:03 PM
Conservatives: People need to take personal responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming others for all their problems.
Also conservatives: Yes I'm a hateful bigot who would have been right at home as a white person in Apartheid South Africa or the slave-owning south, but them awful Democrats made me do it!

Both sides have wackos

One group of wackos provokes the others group of wackos into reacting/over reacting

It's really not that hard to understand

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 22, 2022, 08:47:27 PM
Any update on affidavit release ?
Did it say what they were really after ?
Incriminating documents on the big guy and hunter .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2022, 12:35:56 AM
Cancel culture update:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/300802912_5371558996231905_2475378275850444574_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1ulwxKLjjVMAX_U6CI9&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_jiZNazU_mQaTtyXAnao-nKYTPdipHl4Cqjy8h3Hsv5g&oe=63087E2E)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 23, 2022, 05:08:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2022, 12:35:56 AM
Cancel culture update:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/300802912_5371558996231905_2475378275850444574_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1ulwxKLjjVMAX_U6CI9&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_jiZNazU_mQaTtyXAnao-nKYTPdipHl4Cqjy8h3Hsv5g&oe=63087E2E)
that list is fake news bud go back to twitter for the update lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 23, 2022, 03:44:56 PM
I seriously think Eamonn's trolling!

No one could be that gullible and ill informed on a consistent basis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2022, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

Yes- yes there is

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-men-found-guilty-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-11661272134
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 23, 2022, 07:09:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 20, 2022, 01:19:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 19, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2022, 01:01:38 AM
Texas Republicans' censorship,  the frenzied school book banning of anything related to the history of slavery, anything remotely informative about sexual hormones and now the Dairy of Anne Frank has been banned, waking up the usually sedate Jerusalem Post out of a comatose state in regards to such matters.

Texas school district orders removal of Anne Frank's diary from shelves (//http://)

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-714895?dicbo=v2-c1c6320059a4bdf86041da5335e140ac)

BANNED

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_JD_ArticleMainImageFaceDetect/451786)

These whackjobs are sick in the head.

Hopefully the backlash will be swift and these ghouls voted off these school boards across the country.

J70

Speaking of "whack jobs" have you ever taken a look at "Libs of Tik Tok" on Twitter ?

No.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 23, 2022, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2022, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

Yes- yes there is

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-men-found-guilty-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-11661272134

Oops!

Ensnared using that hereto unknown novel commie libtard police tactic of deep cover. ;D

Although I shouldn't laugh - this could have ended up very, very badly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2022, 09:23:15 PM
Two of them entered guilty pleas and testified against their mates, eh? So much for unity in the ranks of the right wing terrorists. There might be hope for us yet.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2022, 09:25:08 PM
Gavin Newsom looking more and more like he'd ready to make a serious run at the top job in 2024. Might be a little earlier than he'd hoped, but Joe's age and Kamala's lack of electability is making it look like this is the time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 23, 2022, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 23, 2022, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2022, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

Yes- yes there is

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-men-found-guilty-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-11661272134

Oops!

Ensnared using that hereto unknown novel commie libtard police tactic of deep cover. ;D

Although I shouldn't laugh - this could have ended up very, very badly.
the judge told the jury to find them guilty last week
The fbi are stitching up the former president how hard do you think it is to entrap 6 pot head rednecks in the Michigan woods , but still only managed to get 2 after a retrial.
Don't think the fbi would have kidnapped Whitmer so don't worry about it turning out bad , have you never watched Donnie Branco
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 24, 2022, 12:59:57 AM
What was that someone said about someone being "gullible and ill informed on a consistent basis."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 24, 2022, 01:13:52 AM
I've read some shite on this thread, but that one may take the prize.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 24, 2022, 01:28:53 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on August 24, 2022, 01:13:52 AM
I've read some shite on this thread, but that one may take the prize.

Obama's brother was the judge I heard
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2022, 01:39:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2022, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 23, 2022, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2022, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

Yes- yes there is

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-men-found-guilty-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-11661272134

Oops!

Ensnared using that hereto unknown novel commie libtard police tactic of deep cover. ;D

Although I shouldn't laugh - this could have ended up very, very badly.
the judge told the jury to find them guilty last week
The fbi are stitching up the former president how hard do you think it is to entrap 6 pot head rednecks in the Michigan woods , but still only managed to get 2 after a retrial.
Don't think the fbi would have kidnapped Whitmer so don't worry about it turning out bad , have you never watched Donnie Branco

I was thinking exactly of Donnie Brasco. Funny you mentioned it. ;D

Because you'd swear listening to you that cops haven't been going under cover for decades to root out criminals and conspiracies.

And how the f**k are the FBI stitching up Trump?

We're not talking some broke kid from the ghetto falling victim to crooked cops and incompetent, overworked, underfunded public defenders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:35:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 01:39:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2022, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 23, 2022, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2022, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

Yes- yes there is

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-men-found-guilty-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-11661272134

Oops!

Ensnared using that hereto unknown novel commie libtard police tactic of deep cover. ;D

Although I shouldn't laugh - this could have ended up very, very badly.
the judge told the jury to find them guilty last week
The fbi are stitching up the former president how hard do you think it is to entrap 6 pot head rednecks in the Michigan woods , but still only managed to get 2 after a retrial.
Don't think the fbi would have kidnapped Whitmer so don't worry about it turning out bad , have you never watched Donnie Branco

I was thinking exactly of Donnie Brasco. Funny you mentioned it. ;D

Because you'd swear listening to you that cops haven't been going under cover for decades to root out criminals and conspiracies.

And how the f**k are the FBI stitching up Trump?

We're not talking some broke kid from the ghetto falling victim to crooked cops and incompetent, overworked, underfunded public defenders.

They stitched him up before so it's not that big of a leap to assume they'd do it again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on August 24, 2022, 07:33:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:35:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 01:39:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2022, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 23, 2022, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2022, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

Yes- yes there is

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-men-found-guilty-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-11661272134

Oops!

Ensnared using that hereto unknown novel commie libtard police tactic of deep cover. ;D

Although I shouldn't laugh - this could have ended up very, very badly.
the judge told the jury to find them guilty last week
The fbi are stitching up the former president how hard do you think it is to entrap 6 pot head rednecks in the Michigan woods , but still only managed to get 2 after a retrial.
Don't think the fbi would have kidnapped Whitmer so don't worry about it turning out bad , have you never watched Donnie Branco

I was thinking exactly of Donnie Brasco. Funny you mentioned it. ;D

Because you'd swear listening to you that cops haven't been going under cover for decades to root out criminals and conspiracies.

And how the f**k are the FBI stitching up Trump?

We're not talking some broke kid from the ghetto falling victim to crooked cops and incompetent, overworked, underfunded public defenders.

They stitched him up before so it's not that big of a leap to assume they'd do it again

Possibly but it's much less of a leap of faith to believe that trump took very sensitive, classified documents with a view to being able to sell them for lots of money. Everything about him suggests that is extremely likely.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2022, 10:28:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:35:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 01:39:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2022, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 23, 2022, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2022, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

Yes- yes there is

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-men-found-guilty-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-11661272134

Oops!

Ensnared using that hereto unknown novel commie libtard police tactic of deep cover. ;D

Although I shouldn't laugh - this could have ended up very, very badly.
the judge told the jury to find them guilty last week
The fbi are stitching up the former president how hard do you think it is to entrap 6 pot head rednecks in the Michigan woods , but still only managed to get 2 after a retrial.
Don't think the fbi would have kidnapped Whitmer so don't worry about it turning out bad , have you never watched Donnie Branco

I was thinking exactly of Donnie Brasco. Funny you mentioned it. ;D

Because you'd swear listening to you that cops haven't been going under cover for decades to root out criminals and conspiracies.

And how the f**k are the FBI stitching up Trump?

We're not talking some broke kid from the ghetto falling victim to crooked cops and incompetent, overworked, underfunded public defenders.

They stitched him up before so it's not that big of a leap to assume they'd do it again

I always understood "stitched up" by the authorities to mean false conviction,  being framed.

When did that happen to Trump?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 24, 2022, 10:56:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 10:28:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:35:26 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 01:39:59 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 23, 2022, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 23, 2022, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2022, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2020, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
Gmac ever condemn those right wing would be putschists?

I think he's okay with all of those right wing Reichstag burnings and the terrorist plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

Quoth Fox News:

The militia group accused of planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer previously discussed taking over the state Capitol building and staging a weeklong series of televised executions of public officials, authorities said.

The plot was revealed by the Michigan Attorney General's Office during arguments against the release of Pete Musico, 42, one of eight men facing state terrorism charges in the case, WWMT-TV recently reported. Six others face federal charges for their roles in the thwarted kidnapping plot.

Some of the suspects belonged to the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government militia. The group concocted two separate plans during a Second Amendment rally in June in front of the Capitol building in Lansing.

One involved recruiting 200 men to storm the building while lawmakers were in session, according to court documents.

"They were to take hostages, execute tyrants and have it televised," court documents read. "It would take about one week and that no one is coming out alive."

Another plan involved storming the building, locking it and setting it ablaze with lawmakers inside. Musico suggested there were "tactical difficulties" with the plan.

Instead, he developed another, less complicated one to target the homes of elected officials and kidnap them, prosecutors said.

They eventually settled for kidnapping Whitmer, a Democrat, who has been criticized by some for enacting restrictions to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The alleged plot was foiled by the FBI and Michigan State Police.
any update on this rossfan ?

Yes- yes there is

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-men-found-guilty-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-11661272134

Oops!

Ensnared using that hereto unknown novel commie libtard police tactic of deep cover. ;D

Although I shouldn't laugh - this could have ended up very, very badly.
the judge told the jury to find them guilty last week
The fbi are stitching up the former president how hard do you think it is to entrap 6 pot head rednecks in the Michigan woods , but still only managed to get 2 after a retrial.
Don't think the fbi would have kidnapped Whitmer so don't worry about it turning out bad , have you never watched Donnie Branco

I was thinking exactly of Donnie Brasco. Funny you mentioned it. ;D

Because you'd swear listening to you that cops haven't been going under cover for decades to root out criminals and conspiracies.

And how the f**k are the FBI stitching up Trump?

We're not talking some broke kid from the ghetto falling victim to crooked cops and incompetent, overworked, underfunded public defenders.

They stitched him up before so it's not that big of a leap to assume they'd do it again

I always understood "stitched up" by the authorities to mean false conviction,  being framed.

When did that happen to Trump?

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/stitch-up

To stitch someone up means to trick them so that they are put in a difficult or unpleasant situation, especially one where they are blamed for something they have not done.

The FBIs handling Russia Hoax/Fake Dossier would meet that definition imho.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2022, 12:28:52 PM
Except it wasn't a Russia hoax.

I couldn't be arsed trying to think back through everything, so I'll quote what I wrote on a previous occasion we discussed this, including that a Republican led Senate investigation found that Russia HAD interfered in the election:

If the Russia "hoax" was such a hoax, why did Trump obstruct and use the promise of pardon's to impede the investigation? Why were Fox News going nuts for months warning him about a "perjury trap" were he to testify? Why was Roger Stone, part of his campaign, working with them and Wikileaks to get the emails? Why was Donnie Jr meeting with Russians in Trump Tower in the hopes of getting dirt? Why has Trump bent over backwards to cravenly deny every legitimate allegation brought up against Putin? The government confirmed that the Russians had interfered. Manafort? The only question was whether Trump and/or his campaign actually colluded with them. That was something that absolutely needed to be investigated.

And speaking of testimony and depositions, has Trump ever actually sat down and answered a question on anything?

We know he pled the fifth 440 times recently in the NY case, but has he ever actually provided any information to anyone?

Hillary sat through an eleven hour live televised grilling by the Benghazi committee in the lead up to the 2016 election. But Trump is getting warned about "perjury traps" and throwing every roadblock he can to thwart anyone looking at anything, no matter what it is. Clearly a man on the up and up on multiple fronts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:24:17 PM
So opposition research which has been proven false (or unproven as you would like to say) was used as the basis to wiretap Trumps campaign and you think that's okay?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:24:17 PM
So opposition research which has been proven false (or unproven as you would like to say) was used as the basis to wiretap Trumps campaign and you think that's okay?

If knowingly and maliciously false, of course not.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 24, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:24:17 PM
So opposition research which has been proven false (or unproven as you would like to say) was used as the basis to wiretap Trumps campaign and you think that's okay?

If knowingly and maliciously false, of course not.

I guess we'll never know since Glenn Simpson pleaded the fifth rather than testify

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/16/glenn-simpson-gps-co-founder-pleads-fifth-trump-do/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2022, 06:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:24:17 PM
So opposition research which has been proven false (or unproven as you would like to say) was used as the basis to wiretap Trumps campaign and you think that's okay?

If knowingly and maliciously false, of course not.

I guess we'll never know since Glenn Simpson pleaded the fifth rather than testify

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/16/glenn-simpson-gps-co-founder-pleads-fifth-trump-do/

Not a good look, for sure.

Was this when Trump declared that innocent people don't plead the fifth?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 24, 2022, 08:03:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 06:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:24:17 PM
So opposition research which has been proven false (or unproven as you would like to say) was used as the basis to wiretap Trumps campaign and you think that's okay?

If knowingly and maliciously false, of course not.

I guess we'll never know since Glenn Simpson pleaded the fifth rather than testify

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/16/glenn-simpson-gps-co-founder-pleads-fifth-trump-do/

Not a good look, for sure.

Was this when Trump declared that innocent people don't plead the fifth?

No idea

I don't listen to too much that Trump says

But given everything that went down with the dossier and the fisa warrants, conservatives like me have every reason to question and doubt the FBI
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2022, 08:26:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 08:03:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 06:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:24:17 PM
So opposition research which has been proven false (or unproven as you would like to say) was used as the basis to wiretap Trumps campaign and you think that's okay?

If knowingly and maliciously false, of course not.

I guess we'll never know since Glenn Simpson pleaded the fifth rather than testify

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/16/glenn-simpson-gps-co-founder-pleads-fifth-trump-do/

Not a good look, for sure.

Was this when Trump declared that innocent people don't plead the fifth?

No idea

I don't listen to too much that Trump says

But given everything that went down with the dossier and the fisa warrants, conservatives like me have every reason to question and doubt the FBI

And given the money, the legal muscle, the history (aided and abetted by his party and media) of obstruction of justice, and the sheer shamelessness of the likes of Trump, non-conservatives like me have every reason to believe that the chances of him being subject to a miscarriage of justice are exactly zero (the chances of him held accountable for actual crimes are also just about zero).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 24, 2022, 09:05:27 PM
We've ploughs this ground before

The IG (nonpartisan) report into the FISA process uncovered serious misdoings as it pertained to the FBIs treatment of Trump and his campaign

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/12/10/ig-report-fbi-fisa-abuse-secret-court-trump-campaign-column/4383722002/

The IG report concluded FBI officials made 17 "significant inaccuracies and omissions" in its submissions to the FISA court to secure warrants to target former Trump advisor Carter Page"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 24, 2022, 09:28:58 PM
Did hurl or eamon have Matt gaetz  going to jail a few months ago ? another lib wet dream bites the dust
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 25, 2022, 01:07:21 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 06:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:24:17 PM
So opposition research which has been proven false (or unproven as you would like to say) was used as the basis to wiretap Trumps campaign and you think that's okay?

If knowingly and maliciously false, of course not.

I guess we'll never know since Glenn Simpson pleaded the fifth rather than testify

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/16/glenn-simpson-gps-co-founder-pleads-fifth-trump-do/

Not a good look, for sure.

Was this when Trump declared that innocent people don't plead the fifth?
Trump claimed  then  that only the mob took the 5th  :D   How true
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 25, 2022, 04:41:50 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/301575477_10228509337461062_1852514387796206369_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=2Uhi9yIIr8kAX9T8cM3&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_wSi7coMXcrcSzI-umGCXmkfpidY-rptg62T7YVl1Tdw&oe=630CAB32)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 26, 2022, 12:30:15 AM
Zuckerberg was on joe Rogan podcast and basically said what we all know that the FBI are telling them at Facebook what's fake news and what's not , what stories to slow down and what's misinformation.
Wow and everything is skewed in one direction
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 26, 2022, 01:58:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 26, 2022, 12:30:15 AM
Zuckerberg was on joe Rogan podcast and basically said what we all know that the FBI are telling them at Facebook what's fake news and what's not , what stories to slow down and what's misinformation.
Wow and everything is skewed in one direction
Gee Mac that's quite an extrapolation,   how very interpretative  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 26, 2022, 06:39:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 26, 2022, 12:30:15 AM
Zuckerberg was on joe Rogan podcast and basically said what we all know that the FBI are telling them at Facebook what's fake news and what's not , what stories to slow down and what's misinformation.
Wow and everything is skewed in one direction

I remember certain posters here dismissing this as a crazy conspiracy story.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 26, 2022, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 26, 2022, 06:39:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 26, 2022, 12:30:15 AM
Zuckerberg was on joe Rogan podcast and basically said what we all know that the FBI are telling them at Facebook what's fake news and what's not , what stories to slow down and what's misinformation.
Wow and everything is skewed in one direction

I remember certain posters here dismissing this as a crazy conspiracy story.

Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not trying to get you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 26, 2022, 07:33:46 PM
Trump's attempt to build a social media app has played out in the usual Trump fashion. He owes vendors $1.6 million and he hadn't bothered his head paying. Why do contractors continue to do work for the guy? He has a proven track record of stiffing people!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2022, 03:20:39 PM
POTENTIALLY MASSIVE in light of what we know now:

In Oct 2021, CIA Counterintelligence sent a top secret cable warning an unusually high number of confidential informants were being killed, captured, or compromised.

In Jan 2021, Trump stole documents on these kind of informants.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2022, 06:53:19 PM
QuoteClassified Material on Human Intelligence Sources Helped Trigger Alarm

Documents related to the work of clandestine sources are some of the most sensitive and protected in the government. F.B.I. agents found some in boxes retrieved from Donald J. Trump's home.

WASHINGTON — They risk imprisonment or death stealing the secrets of their own governments. Their identities are among the most closely protected information inside American intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Losing even one of them can set back American foreign intelligence operations for years.

Clandestine human sources are the lifeblood of any espionage service. This helps explain the grave concern within American agencies that information from undercover sources was included in some of the classified documents recently removed from Mar-a-Lago, the Florida home of former President Donald J. Trump — raising the prospect that the sources could be identified if the documents got into the wrong hands.

Mr. Trump has a long history of treating classified information with a sloppiness few other presidents have exhibited. And the former president's cavalier treatment of the nation's secrets was on display in the affidavit underlying the warrant for the Mar-a-Lago search. The affidavit, released in redacted form on Friday, described classified documents being found in multiple locations around the Florida residence, a private club where both members and their guests mingle with the former president and his coterie of aides.

Full story (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.html)

He should be hanged for treason over this. Bush outing Valerie Plame was bad enough. This is next level stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 27, 2022, 07:56:44 PM
Leave the guy alone, hasn't the FBI. persecuted. him enough? And whatabout Biden jr's laptop?
'
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 28, 2022, 12:44:10 AM
And let's not forget Benghazi!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on August 28, 2022, 03:40:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 08:03:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 06:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 24, 2022, 02:24:17 PM
So opposition research which has been proven false (or unproven as you would like to say) was used as the basis to wiretap Trumps campaign and you think that's okay?

If knowingly and maliciously false, of course not.

I guess we'll never know since Glenn Simpson pleaded the fifth rather than testify

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/16/glenn-simpson-gps-co-founder-pleads-fifth-trump-do/

Not a good look, for sure.

Was this when Trump declared that innocent people don't plead the fifth?

No idea

I don't listen to too much that Trump says

But given everything that went down with the dossier and the fisa warrants, conservatives like me have every reason to question and doubt the FBI

Seems strange given the FBI handed Trump the Whitehouse on a platter with Comeys statement about Hillary's laptop days before the polls. . . Conservatives have very selective memory when it comes to issues that work out in their favour!!

What did the FBI ever find to implicate Clinton in that particular case??

Oh yes sweet FA!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 28, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Hundreds of thousands of emails, some classified.....on the laptop of a convicted sex offender and you don't think the American people deserved to know that BEFORE the election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Hundreds of thousands of emails, some classified.....on the laptop of a convicted sex offender and you don't think the American people deserved to know that BEFORE the election?

.on the laptop of a convicted sex offender  ??

Who are we talking about ?  Epstein , Maxwell ?? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 28, 2022, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Hundreds of thousands of emails, some classified.....on the laptop of a convicted sex offender and you don't think the American people deserved to know that BEFORE the election?

.on the laptop of a convicted sex offender  ??

Who are we talking about ?  Epstein , Maxwell ??


Your buddy Anthony Weiner (Huma Abedins husband)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Weiner

(If Hillary hadn't illegally deleted her emails (which were under subpoena) and destroyed the server it would have been a non issue)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Hundreds of thousands of emails, some classified.....on the laptop of a convicted sex offender and you don't think the American people deserved to know that BEFORE the election?

.on the laptop of a convicted sex offender  ??

Who are we talking about ?  Epstein , Maxwell ??


Your buddy Anthony Weiner (Huma Abedins husband)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Weiner

(If Hillary hadn't illegally deleted her emails (which were under subpoena) and destroyed the server it would have been a non issue)

First ""Weiner"" would not be not be my buddy  and I actually forgot about him at least he seemed to disappear

I think we had plenty of info on him ""without Hillarys emails'' and he did resign  and I am not sure how close they were  Ps  I wouldn't be a fan of the Clintons either

But if you are so Concerned   What of ""your Buddies ""  say ""Matt Gaetz""  ""Jim Jordon""  no sign of them to even resign   
                                                                          Trump's  & Oj's  Lawyer  Alan Dershowitz

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 28, 2022, 07:58:25 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Hundreds of thousands of emails, some classified.....on the laptop of a convicted sex offender and you don't think the American people deserved to know that BEFORE the election?

.on the laptop of a convicted sex offender  ??

Who are we talking about ?  Epstein , Maxwell ??


Your buddy Anthony Weiner (Huma Abedins husband)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Weiner

(If Hillary hadn't illegally deleted her emails (which were under subpoena) and destroyed the server it would have been a non issue)

First ""Weiner"" would not be not be my buddy  and I actually forgot about him at least he seemed to disappear

I think we had plenty of info on him ""without Hillarys emails'' and he did resign  and I am not sure how close they were  Ps  I wouldn't be a fan of the Clintons either

But if you are so Concerned   What of ""your Buddies ""  say ""Matt Gaetz""  ""Jim Jordon""  no sign of them to even resign   
                                                                          Trump's  & Oj's  Lawyer  Alan Dershowitz
What do Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan or Alan Dershowitz have to do with the fact that hundreds of thousands of (potentially) missing emails were found on the laptop of a convicted sex offender?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 08:09:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 07:58:25 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Hundreds of thousands of emails, some classified.....on the laptop of a convicted sex offender and you don't think the American people deserved to know that BEFORE the election?

.on the laptop of a convicted sex offender  ??

Who are we talking about ?  Epstein , Maxwell ??


Your buddy Anthony Weiner (Huma Abedins husband)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Weiner

(If Hillary hadn't illegally deleted her emails (which were under subpoena) and destroyed the server it would have been a non issue)

First ""Weiner"" would not be not be my buddy  and I actually forgot about him at least he seemed to disappear

I think we had plenty of info on him ""without Hillarys emails'' and he did resign  and I am not sure how close they were  Ps  I wouldn't be a fan of the Clintons either

But if you are so Concerned   What of ""your Buddies ""  say ""Matt Gaetz""  ""Jim Jordon""  no sign of them to even resign   
                                                                          Trump's  & Oj's  Lawyer  Alan Dershowitz
What do Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan or Alan Dershowitz have to do with the fact that hundreds of thousands of (potentially) missing emails were found on the laptop of a convicted sex offender?

FFs If they had the labtop they know what is on it ?  On  I  Mentioning Gatez etc   Just pointing out how  partisan  you are ? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 28, 2022, 08:26:05 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 08:09:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 07:58:25 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Hundreds of thousands of emails, some classified.....on the laptop of a convicted sex offender and you don't think the American people deserved to know that BEFORE the election?

.on the laptop of a convicted sex offender  ??

Who are we talking about ?  Epstein , Maxwell ??


Your buddy Anthony Weiner (Huma Abedins husband)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Weiner

(If Hillary hadn't illegally deleted her emails (which were under subpoena) and destroyed the server it would have been a non issue)

First ""Weiner"" would not be not be my buddy  and I actually forgot about him at least he seemed to disappear

I think we had plenty of info on him ""without Hillarys emails'' and he did resign  and I am not sure how close they were  Ps  I wouldn't be a fan of the Clintons either

But if you are so Concerned   What of ""your Buddies ""  say ""Matt Gaetz""  ""Jim Jordon""  no sign of them to even resign   
                                                                          Trump's  & Oj's  Lawyer  Alan Dershowitz
What do Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan or Alan Dershowitz have to do with the fact that hundreds of thousands of (potentially) missing emails were found on the laptop of a convicted sex offender?

FFs If they had the labtop they know what is on it ?  On  I  Mentioning Gatez etc   Just pointing out how  partisan  you are ?

You obviously haven't a clue about how this whole thing went down

Hillary gave them printed copies of her emails (not electronic versions) so there was no way for the FBI to automatically cross reference with what was on the laptop.

They had to go through them one by one and manually reconcile each one with the printed copies
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 08:49:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 08:26:05 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 08:09:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 07:58:25 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Hundreds of thousands of emails, some classified.....on the laptop of a convicted sex offender and you don't think the American people deserved to know that BEFORE the election?

.on the laptop of a convicted sex offender  ??

Who are we talking about ?  Epstein , Maxwell ??


Your buddy Anthony Weiner (Huma Abedins husband)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Weiner

(If Hillary hadn't illegally deleted her emails (which were under subpoena) and destroyed the server it would have been a non issue)

First ""Weiner"" would not be not be my buddy  and I actually forgot about him at least he seemed to disappear

I think we had plenty of info on him ""without Hillarys emails'' and he did resign  and I am not sure how close they were  Ps  I wouldn't be a fan of the Clintons either

But if you are so Concerned   What of ""your Buddies ""  say ""Matt Gaetz""  ""Jim Jordon""  no sign of them to even resign   
                                                                          Trump's  & Oj's  Lawyer  Alan Dershowitz
What do Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan or Alan Dershowitz have to do with the fact that hundreds of thousands of (potentially) missing emails were found on the laptop of a convicted sex offender?

FFs If they had the labtop they know what is on it ?  On  I  Mentioning Gatez etc   Just pointing out how  partisan  you are ?

You obviously haven't a clue about how this whole thing went down

Hillary gave them printed copies of her emails (not electronic versions) so there was no way for the FBI to automatically cross reference with what was on the laptop.

They had to go through them one by one and manually reconcile each one with the printed copies

Ok you are right I dont know  how actually it went down , But i doubt you do either ,   Was there stuff on there she didnt want us to see . Yes I am sure there was , but I Think loads of politicians are hiding stuff all the time ""for example Hunters labtop etc'' . But  Fbi's Comey  indecision   possibly cost her the election , Unlike most she went in front  congress and testified for hours without pleading the 5th every 5 seconds     Trump paid  a newspaper to ""catch and kill ""  loads of negative stories , In defense  of the Clintons or (Trump for that matter) there was somewhat of Witch hunts out for them. In the Clintons case ""Land deal led to Monica etc .  Same at the Moment with ""Raid on Trumps place ""  I am not sure What to believe . I do know US Politics is a mess at the moment . 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 28, 2022, 09:09:18 PM
LOL-She's the Secretary of State while her husbands foundation is getting millions upon millions from foreign governments and other entities

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/ethics-approval-came-easily-at-hillary-clintons-state-department-115468?_amp=true

Most people in Ireland have a very one sided version of what happened but scratch under the surface and there's a lot more to this than the bad old white Republicans hanging up on poor Hillary

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 09:09:18 PM
LOL-She's the Secretary of State while her husbands foundation is getting millions upon millions from foreign governments and other entities

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/ethics-approval-came-easily-at-hillary-clintons-state-department-115468?_amp=true

Most people in Ireland have a very one sided version of what happened but scratch under the surface and there's a lot more to this than the bad old white Republicans hanging up on poor Hillary

Yea I actually am not disagreeing with you at all "'Clintons And ""Trumps"" quiet similar

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/06/ivanka-trump-gets-initial-approval-from-china-for-16-trademarks.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-11/how-did-jared-kushner-get-2-billion-from-the-saudis



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 28, 2022, 09:37:58 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 09:09:18 PM
LOL-She's the Secretary of State while her husbands foundation is getting millions upon millions from foreign governments and other entities

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/ethics-approval-came-easily-at-hillary-clintons-state-department-115468?_amp=true

Most people in Ireland have a very one sided version of what happened but scratch under the surface and there's a lot more to this than the bad old white Republicans hanging up on poor Hillary

Yea I actually am not disagreeing with you at all "'Clintons And ""Trumps"" quiet similar

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/06/ivanka-trump-gets-initial-approval-from-china-for-16-trademarks.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-11/how-did-jared-kushner-get-2-billion-from-the-saudis

I actually hate both parties almost equally

I'm old school, so I lean Republican but disagree with them on many topics

Eg-I'm not dead set against student loan forgiveness like most Republicans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 09:41:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 09:37:58 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 09:09:18 PM
LOL-She's the Secretary of State while her husbands foundation is getting millions upon millions from foreign governments and other entities

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/ethics-approval-came-easily-at-hillary-clintons-state-department-115468?_amp=true

Most people in Ireland have a very one sided version of what happened but scratch under the surface and there's a lot more to this than the bad old white Republicans hanging up on poor Hillary

Yea I actually am not disagreeing with you at all "'Clintons And ""Trumps"" quiet similar

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/06/ivanka-trump-gets-initial-approval-from-china-for-16-trademarks.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-11/how-did-jared-kushner-get-2-billion-from-the-saudis

I actually hate both parties almost equally

I'm old school, so I lean Republican but disagree with them on many topics

Eg-I'm not dead set against student loan forgiveness like most Republicans

In that case we are not that far apart  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 28, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 09:41:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 09:37:58 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 28, 2022, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 28, 2022, 09:09:18 PM
LOL-She's the Secretary of State while her husbands foundation is getting millions upon millions from foreign governments and other entities

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/ethics-approval-came-easily-at-hillary-clintons-state-department-115468?_amp=true

Most people in Ireland have a very one sided version of what happened but scratch under the surface and there's a lot more to this than the bad old white Republicans hanging up on poor Hillary

Yea I actually am not disagreeing with you at all "'Clintons And ""Trumps"" quiet similar

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/06/ivanka-trump-gets-initial-approval-from-china-for-16-trademarks.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-11/how-did-jared-kushner-get-2-billion-from-the-saudis

I actually hate both parties almost equally

I'm old school, so I lean Republican but disagree with them on many topics

Eg-I'm not dead set against student loan forgiveness like most Republicans

In that case we are not that far apart  ;)

80% of people could probably agree on 90% of the issues

Unfortunately the 10% on either side drive the agenda and the media pours fuel on the fire
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 30, 2022, 02:13:14 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2022, 06:53:19 PM
QuoteClassified Material on Human Intelligence Sources Helped Trigger Alarm

Documents related to the work of clandestine sources are some of the most sensitive and protected in the government. F.B.I. agents found some in boxes retrieved from Donald J. Trump's home.

WASHINGTON — They risk imprisonment or death stealing the secrets of their own governments. Their identities are among the most closely protected information inside American intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Losing even one of them can set back American foreign intelligence operations for years.

Clandestine human sources are the lifeblood of any espionage service. This helps explain the grave concern within American agencies that information from undercover sources was included in some of the classified documents recently removed from Mar-a-Lago, the Florida home of former President Donald J. Trump — raising the prospect that the sources could be identified if the documents got into the wrong hands.

Mr. Trump has a long history of treating classified information with a sloppiness few other presidents have exhibited. And the former president's cavalier treatment of the nation's secrets was on display in the affidavit underlying the warrant for the Mar-a-Lago search. The affidavit, released in redacted form on Friday, described classified documents being found in multiple locations around the Florida residence, a private club where both members and their guests mingle with the former president and his coterie of aides.

Full story (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.html)

He should be hanged for treason over this. Bush outing Valerie Plame was bad enough. This is next level stuff.
Trump's sloppiness does not explain his motive in stealing the highly classified documents but it does explain his  (sloppy) modus operandi, i.e. keeping the documents in an exposed incriminating location and having witnesses to such who were wiling to testify, At the very least the serious questions are to what extent he is a kremlin stooge? Incredible questions to investigate considering USA past and present history re USSR /Russia  and that the target of the  present day inquiries are the ex president of the USA.
He was quite the boisterous willing stooge when taking benefit from the kremlin's capture of the contents of Clinton's computer, via another kremlin stooge Wikileaks in  their timely intervention in 2016.
It is an anomaly when in the context of  almost total cross political party unity in support of Ukraine with unimaginable levels of aid, that it is the bedraggled image of Trump who is one of the detractors, a kremlin apologist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 30, 2022, 02:54:52 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 30, 2022, 02:13:14 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2022, 06:53:19 PM
QuoteClassified Material on Human Intelligence Sources Helped Trigger Alarm

Documents related to the work of clandestine sources are some of the most sensitive and protected in the government. F.B.I. agents found some in boxes retrieved from Donald J. Trump's home.

WASHINGTON — They risk imprisonment or death stealing the secrets of their own governments. Their identities are among the most closely protected information inside American intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Losing even one of them can set back American foreign intelligence operations for years.

Clandestine human sources are the lifeblood of any espionage service. This helps explain the grave concern within American agencies that information from undercover sources was included in some of the classified documents recently removed from Mar-a-Lago, the Florida home of former President Donald J. Trump — raising the prospect that the sources could be identified if the documents got into the wrong hands.

Mr. Trump has a long history of treating classified information with a sloppiness few other presidents have exhibited. And the former president's cavalier treatment of the nation's secrets was on display in the affidavit underlying the warrant for the Mar-a-Lago search. The affidavit, released in redacted form on Friday, described classified documents being found in multiple locations around the Florida residence, a private club where both members and their guests mingle with the former president and his coterie of aides.

Full story (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.html)

He should be hanged for treason over this. Bush outing Valerie Plame was bad enough. This is next level stuff.
Trump's sloppiness does not explain his motive in stealing the highly classified documents but it does explain his  (sloppy) modus operandi, i.e. keeping the documents in an exposed incriminating location and having witnesses to such who were wiling to testify, At the very least the serious questions are to what extent he is a kremlin stooge? Incredible questions to investigate considering USA past and present history re USSR /Russia  and that the target of the  present day inquiries are the ex president of the USA.
He was quite the boisterous willing stooge when taking benefit from the kremlin's capture of the contents of Clinton's computer, via another kremlin stooge Wikileaks in  their timely intervention in 2016.
It is an anomaly when in the context of  almost total cross political party unity in support of Ukraine with unimaginable levels of aid, that it is the bedraggled image of Trump who is one of the detractors, a kremlin apologist.
the Rachel maddow boys are at it again
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 30, 2022, 04:56:54 PM
Aaaaand yet another Trump business venture heads towards bankruptcy. "Truth Social," his failed attempt to be the next Zuckerberg, is heading for bankruptcy. Someone should have told him that failing to pay your hosting fees means you get cut off. Not that many people were visiting the site anyway.

QuoteAccording to a report from the Washington Post, prospects that Donald Trump's Truth Social will survive are growing bleak with the company that had planned to take the social media platform public now suggesting that a probable bankruptcy is on the horizon.

As the report points out, Truth Social has not been paying for web-hosting fees to the point where attorneys are now involved, traffic is collapsing, the value of stock in the company is plunging and money is running out.

Full story (https://www.salon.com/2022/08/28/truth-social-is-headed-for-bankruptcy_partner/?fbclid=IwAR0gXbyBc9Y3eFiDrsM7W1bCO7HmartscxxWJY66oUmZIwDCE5yPzDYr3-E)

He really should have taken Clinton's financial advice and put his money in a mutual fund, he'd have ended up a lot richer. All this trying to play the big businessman just isn't working out. He's not very good at it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 30, 2022, 10:39:26 PM
Joe going after the gun nuts next! Get 'em, Joe!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 31, 2022, 11:35:07 AM
Did the mods delete Gmac's "drag queens are pedos" "offerings"?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 31, 2022, 12:38:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 30, 2022, 02:13:14 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 27, 2022, 06:53:19 PM
QuoteClassified Material on Human Intelligence Sources Helped Trigger Alarm

Documents related to the work of clandestine sources are some of the most sensitive and protected in the government. F.B.I. agents found some in boxes retrieved from Donald J. Trump's home.

WASHINGTON — They risk imprisonment or death stealing the secrets of their own governments. Their identities are among the most closely protected information inside American intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Losing even one of them can set back American foreign intelligence operations for years.

Clandestine human sources are the lifeblood of any espionage service. This helps explain the grave concern within American agencies that information from undercover sources was included in some of the classified documents recently removed from Mar-a-Lago, the Florida home of former President Donald J. Trump — raising the prospect that the sources could be identified if the documents got into the wrong hands.

Mr. Trump has a long history of treating classified information with a sloppiness few other presidents have exhibited. And the former president's cavalier treatment of the nation's secrets was on display in the affidavit underlying the warrant for the Mar-a-Lago search. The affidavit, released in redacted form on Friday, described classified documents being found in multiple locations around the Florida residence, a private club where both members and their guests mingle with the former president and his coterie of aides.

Full story (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.html)

He should be hanged for treason over this. Bush outing Valerie Plame was bad enough. This is next level stuff.
Trump's sloppiness does not explain his motive in stealing the highly classified documents but it does explain his  (sloppy) modus operandi, i.e. keeping the documents in an exposed incriminating location and having witnesses to such who were wiling to testify, At the very least the serious questions are to what extent he is a kremlin stooge? Incredible questions to investigate considering USA past and present history re USSR /Russia  and that the target of the  present day inquiries are the ex president of the USA.
He was quite the boisterous willing stooge when taking benefit from the kremlin's capture of the contents of Clinton's computer, via another kremlin stooge Wikileaks in  their timely intervention in 2016.
It is an anomaly when in the context of  almost total cross political party unity in support of Ukraine with unimaginable levels of aid, that it is the bedraggled image of Trump who is one of the detractors, a kremlin apologist.

Personally, whether or not Putin has dirt on him, there's no question that Trump admires Putin, Orban, the Kims and so on for their authoritarian, strongman/dictator regimes. Its exactly what he wishes to pull off in the US, where loyalty to himself, personally, first and foremost is what matters, and we're in for a very grim time if he gets re-elected.

On these documents, I'd say, a least with some of the material, it's a case of Trump thinking he's above the law and deciding that he wanted to keep trophies of his time in office that he could show off to impress visitors and suitors. He's that narcissistic, needy and infantile. Obviously other material such as information on intelligence sources and so on will have to be explained.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 11:35:07 AM
Did the mods delete Gmac's "drag queens are pedos" "offerings"?
not what I said
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on August 31, 2022, 02:48:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Yeah, Trump is selling state secrets to the highest bidder but those pronouns and which to use is keeping me awake also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn’t bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 31, 2022, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)

I'm in Massachusetts and my sons go to school with the kids of middle class and upper middle class white liberals for the most part

They're in high school now, but from a class of about 30 in junior High-there are 3 transgender people-1 girl is now a boy and 2 boys are now girls (all 3 are kids of teachers)

Now maybe they are genuinely transgender or non binary, but a lot of this is flat out attention seeking IMHO which just takes attention and resources away from genuinely transgender people

(Edit-do you live in the States? There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone. This is actually something you have to deal with daily believe it or not. One of our neighbors sons is also transgender so you have to tread very carefully when asking about him/her))

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 04:35:31 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 31, 2022, 02:48:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Yeah, Trump is selling state secrets to the highest bidder but those pronouns and which to use is keeping me awake also.
what state secrets did he sell ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 11:35:07 AM
Did the mods delete Gmac's "drag queens are pedos" "offerings"?
not what I said

Sure go ahead and correct it then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)

I'm in Massachusetts and my sons go to school with the kids of middle class and upper middle class white liberals for the most part

They're in high school now, but from a class of about 30 in junior High-there are 3 transgender people-1 girl is now a boy and 2 boys are now girls (all 3 are kids of teachers)

Now maybe they are genuinely transgender or non binary, but a lot of this is flat out attention seeking IMHO which just takes attention and resources away from genuinely transgender people

(Edit-do you live in the States? There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone. This is actually something you have to deal with daily believe it or not. One of our neighbors sons is also transgender so you have to tread very carefully when asking about him/her))

"There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone"

Really?

Where?

What does "dead name" mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 06:30:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 11:35:07 AM
Did the mods delete Gmac's "drag queens are pedos" "offerings"?
not what I said

Sure go ahead and correct it then.
I have nothing to correct , you have
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 31, 2022, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)

I'm in Massachusetts and my sons go to school with the kids of middle class and upper middle class white liberals for the most part

They're in high school now, but from a class of about 30 in junior High-there are 3 transgender people-1 girl is now a boy and 2 boys are now girls (all 3 are kids of teachers)

Now maybe they are genuinely transgender or non binary, but a lot of this is flat out attention seeking IMHO which just takes attention and resources away from genuinely transgender people

(Edit-do you live in the States? There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone. This is actually something you have to deal with daily believe it or not. One of our neighbors sons is also transgender so you have to tread very carefully when asking about him/her))

"There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone"

Really?

Where?

What does "dead name" mean?

CA passed a law that was struck down in court-actually you could get jail time under that law

https://www.them.us/story/california-court-case-misgendering-law-struck-down/amp

Another similar case in WI:

https://www.thecentersquare.com/wisconsin/will-defending-middle-schoolers-accused-of-misgendering-in-kiel-schools/article_72e6d6f8-d5e0-11ec-bd7a-33787320731a.amp.html

Deadnaming is when you continue to call someone by their old name (eg John transitions to Joan yet you continue to call them John)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:16:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)

I'm in Massachusetts and my sons go to school with the kids of middle class and upper middle class white liberals for the most part

They're in high school now, but from a class of about 30 in junior High-there are 3 transgender people-1 girl is now a boy and 2 boys are now girls (all 3 are kids of teachers)

Now maybe they are genuinely transgender or non binary, but a lot of this is flat out attention seeking IMHO which just takes attention and resources away from genuinely transgender people

(Edit-do you live in the States? There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone. This is actually something you have to deal with daily believe it or not. One of our neighbors sons is also transgender so you have to tread very carefully when asking about him/her))

"There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone"

Really?

Where?

What does "dead name" mean?

CA passed a law that was struck down in court-actually you could get jail time under that law

https://www.them.us/story/california-court-case-misgendering-law-struck-down/amp

Another similar case in WI:

https://www.thecentersquare.com/wisconsin/will-defending-middle-schoolers-accused-of-misgendering-in-kiel-schools/article_72e6d6f8-d5e0-11ec-bd7a-33787320731a.amp.html

Deadnaming is when you continue to call someone by their old name (eg John transitions to Joan yet you continue to call them John)

Ok.

Yes, I can obviously see the first amendment issues.

Doesn't mean that the dignity of trans people should not be respected or that someone who would intentionally and repeatedly maliciously "deadname" someone isn't an ignorant p***k.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 06:30:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 11:35:07 AM
Did the mods delete Gmac's "drag queens are pedos" "offerings"?
not what I said

Sure go ahead and correct it then.
I have nothing to correct , you have

From what I recall you responded to Eamonn's comment about guns with a remark about "pedos" and drag queen story hours and antifa. Someone then removed both your comment and my asking you what you were on about.

Anyway, doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 31, 2022, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:16:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)

I'm in Massachusetts and my sons go to school with the kids of middle class and upper middle class white liberals for the most part

They're in high school now, but from a class of about 30 in junior High-there are 3 transgender people-1 girl is now a boy and 2 boys are now girls (all 3 are kids of teachers)

Now maybe they are genuinely transgender or non binary, but a lot of this is flat out attention seeking IMHO which just takes attention and resources away from genuinely transgender people

(Edit-do you live in the States? There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone. This is actually something you have to deal with daily believe it or not. One of our neighbors sons is also transgender so you have to tread very carefully when asking about him/her))

"There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone"

Really?

Where?

What does "dead name" mean?

CA passed a law that was struck down in court-actually you could get jail time under that law

https://www.them.us/story/california-court-case-misgendering-law-struck-down/amp

Another similar case in WI:

https://www.thecentersquare.com/wisconsin/will-defending-middle-schoolers-accused-of-misgendering-in-kiel-schools/article_72e6d6f8-d5e0-11ec-bd7a-33787320731a.amp.html

Deadnaming is when you continue to call someone by their old name (eg John transitions to Joan yet you continue to call them John)

Ok.

Yes, I can obviously see the first amendment issues.

Doesn't mean that the dignity of trans people should not be respected or that someone who would intentionally and repeatedly maliciously "deadname" someone isn't an ignorant p***k.

Agree-but would it be something you'd  jail a person for?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on August 31, 2022, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

It's very straightforward. She is in a relationship. With Whom, isn't anyone's concern. What is so hard to follow about that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on August 31, 2022, 07:51:55 PM
The Kremlin's useful idiot dog just can't help himself, he's gone from default meltdown mode into turbo meltdown mode.

Trump on Truth Social (what an oxymoron!! :D)  "has now amplified QAnon-promoting accounts at least 70 times since joining and actively using Truth Social".
'All of these posts are from just the last few hours.'
https://twitter.com/AlKapDC/status/1564643355123933186 (https://twitter.com/AlKapDC/status/1564643355123933186)


Trump (a well known supporter of the fascist party of Le Pen) bragged he had 'Intelligence' on Macron's Sex Life
https://tinyurl.com/jealous-guy-Trump (https://tinyurl.com/jealous-guy-Trump)

I liked this snippet.
'Trump initially signaled his support for Macron's 2017 presidential rival, inviting far-right nationalist Marine LePen to Trump Tower and praising her in interviews. But Macron shrugged off the flirtation with his rival and invited Trump as the guest of honor to a Bastille Day parade in 2017. Trump was so taken with the elaborate military pageantry on display that it inspired him to ask for a military parade of his own.'

https://tinyurl.com/Seth-Hettena (https://tinyurl.com/Seth-Hettena)
The FBI photo taken in the "45 Office" at Mar-a-Lago shows six documents were stamped HCS—HUMINT Control System.
This is the sensitive compartmented information system designed to protect information from clandestine human sources.
Three classified documents were in Trump's desk.

(https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/DOJ.jpeg?w=1581&h=1054&crop=1)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 07:58:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 06:30:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 11:35:07 AM
Did the mods delete Gmac's "drag queens are pedos" "offerings"?
not what I said

Sure go ahead and correct it then.
I have nothing to correct , you have

From what I recall you responded to Eamonn's comment about guns with a remark about "pedos" and drag queen story hours and antifa. Someone then removed both your comment and my asking you what you were on about.

Anyway, doesn't really matter.
too much censorship on the board see ya
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 31, 2022, 08:17:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 31, 2022, 07:51:55 PM
The FBI photo taken in the "45 Office" at Mar-a-Lago shows six documents were stamped HCS—HUMINT Control System.
This is the sensitive compartmented information system designed to protect information from clandestine human sources.
Three classified documents were in Trump's desk.

(https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/DOJ.jpeg?w=1581&h=1054&crop=1)


Fake news - that's the carpet in Hunter Biden's bedroom
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 31, 2022, 11:46:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 11:35:07 AM
Did the mods delete Gmac's "drag queens are pedos" "offerings"?
not what I said

It's precisely what you said. Why you're not banned I do not know.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 01, 2022, 12:09:10 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on August 31, 2022, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

It's very straightforward. She is in a relationship. With Whom, isn't anyone's concern. What is so hard to follow about that?

It's not actually that straightforward (no pun intended) and is causing all types of issues for the schools, parents and students

https://www.westernmassnews.com/2022/04/19/lawsuit-alleges-ludlow-school-talked-with-children-about-gender-identity/

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 01, 2022, 12:26:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 07:58:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 06:30:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 11:35:07 AM
Did the mods delete Gmac's "drag queens are pedos" "offerings"?
not what I said

Sure go ahead and correct it then.
I have nothing to correct , you have

From what I recall you responded to Eamonn's comment about guns with a remark about "pedos" and drag queen story hours and antifa. Someone then removed both your comment and my asking you what you were on about.

Anyway, doesn't really matter.
too much censorship on the board see ya

Yes Gmac, your ravings are very heavily censored. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 01, 2022, 12:32:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:16:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)

I'm in Massachusetts and my sons go to school with the kids of middle class and upper middle class white liberals for the most part

They're in high school now, but from a class of about 30 in junior High-there are 3 transgender people-1 girl is now a boy and 2 boys are now girls (all 3 are kids of teachers)

Now maybe they are genuinely transgender or non binary, but a lot of this is flat out attention seeking IMHO which just takes attention and resources away from genuinely transgender people

(Edit-do you live in the States? There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone. This is actually something you have to deal with daily believe it or not. One of our neighbors sons is also transgender so you have to tread very carefully when asking about him/her))

"There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone"

Really?

Where?

What does "dead name" mean?

CA passed a law that was struck down in court-actually you could get jail time under that law

https://www.them.us/story/california-court-case-misgendering-law-struck-down/amp

Another similar case in WI:

https://www.thecentersquare.com/wisconsin/will-defending-middle-schoolers-accused-of-misgendering-in-kiel-schools/article_72e6d6f8-d5e0-11ec-bd7a-33787320731a.amp.html

Deadnaming is when you continue to call someone by their old name (eg John transitions to Joan yet you continue to call them John)

Ok.

Yes, I can obviously see the first amendment issues.

Doesn't mean that the dignity of trans people should not be respected or that someone who would intentionally and repeatedly maliciously "deadname" someone isn't an ignorant p***k.

Agree-but would it be something you'd  jail a person for?

Its depends on the severity.

In most cases, obviously no (which doesn't mean I wouldn't give someone who worked for me the boot for such behaviour if its was on a malicious basis).

In the more severe cases you'd probably be crossing the lines into other criminal areas anyway. But, we already have similar when hate crime offenses are added onto other violence or harassment.

Its a novel issue and one society is grappling with.  I certainly don't have well thought through answers.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on September 01, 2022, 05:01:02 PM
Interesting result from the Alaska House of Representative election to fill a vacant seat.
They used a PR system, definitely far more fair than First Past the Post, which is used in the UK and I had thought was always used in the US.
Only 3 candidates in this vote, so relatively simple:

First Count:
Peltola DEM 76k
Palin REP 59k
Begich REP 53k
(Republicans with approx 60% of the first choice votes)

Begich eliminated and his votes transferred as follows:
Peltola 15k
Palin 27k
Non-transferrable 11k

Final result
Peltola 91k
Palin 86k

In my experience, many real life Republicans (unlike the ones on social media and on here) are mortified with Trump's antics and the backing he gets from GOP. Completely embarrassed about the lies spewed about the election, FBI, etc., etc.
I think this is shown by the number who gave their second choice to the Democrat candidate here rather than the Trump candidate (35% of those who transferred, did so to the Democrat).


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 01, 2022, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2022, 12:26:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 07:58:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 06:30:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 31, 2022, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 11:35:07 AM
Did the mods delete Gmac's "drag queens are pedos" "offerings"?
not what I said

Sure go ahead and correct it then.
I have nothing to correct , you have

From what I recall you responded to Eamonn's comment about guns with a remark about "pedos" and drag queen story hours and antifa. Someone then removed both your comment and my asking you what you were on about.

Anyway, doesn't really matter.
too much censorship on the board see ya

Yes Gmac, your ravings are very heavily censored. ;D

You can't even call people "pedos" on here anymore - what has this place become? ? ? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 02, 2022, 07:11:13 AM
Quote from: Hound on September 01, 2022, 05:01:02 PM
Interesting result from the Alaska House of Representative election to fill a vacant seat.
They used a PR system, definitely far more fair than First Past the Post, which is used in the UK and I had thought was always used in the US.
Only 3 candidates in this vote, so relatively simple:

First Count:
Peltola DEM 76k
Palin REP 59k
Begich REP 53k
(Republicans with approx 60% of the first choice votes)

Begich eliminated and his votes transferred as follows:
Peltola 15k
Palin 27k
Non-transferrable 11k

Final result
Peltola 91k
Palin 86k

In my experience, many real life Republicans (unlike the ones on social media and on here) are mortified with Trump's antics and the backing he gets from GOP. Completely embarrassed about the lies spewed about the election, FBI, etc., etc.
I think this is shown by the number who gave their second choice to the Democrat candidate here rather than the Trump candidate (35% of those who transferred, did so to the Democrat).

Did the Rethuglicans run too many candidates? Could be a sign of unfamiliarity with the PR system. Whatever was the cause, I'll take it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 02, 2022, 11:37:32 AM
Quote from: Hound on September 01, 2022, 05:01:02 PM
Interesting result from the Alaska House of Representative election to fill a vacant seat.
They used a PR system, definitely far more fair than First Past the Post, which is used in the UK and I had thought was always used in the US.
Only 3 candidates in this vote, so relatively simple:

First Count:
Peltola DEM 76k
Palin REP 59k
Begich REP 53k
(Republicans with approx 60% of the first choice votes)

Begich eliminated and his votes transferred as follows:
Peltola 15k
Palin 27k
Non-transferrable 11k

Final result
Peltola 91k
Palin 86k

In my experience, many real life Republicans (unlike the ones on social media and on here) are mortified with Trump's antics and the backing he gets from GOP. Completely embarrassed about the lies spewed about the election, FBI, etc., etc.
I think this is shown by the number who gave their second choice to the Democrat candidate here rather than the Trump candidate (35% of those who transferred, did so to the Democrat).

And of course Palin was whining about the ranked choice system and how it robbed her and conservatives of victory. Nothing to do with her own toxicity and pure laziness.

NYC used ranked choice last year in the mayoral elections. Hope it becomes far more widespread. We ended up with a moderate, mainstream mayor. Definitely a good way to filter out the headcases and extremists, of whatever leaning.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 02, 2022, 11:43:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 02, 2022, 11:37:32 AM
Quote from: Hound on September 01, 2022, 05:01:02 PM
Interesting result from the Alaska House of Representative election to fill a vacant seat.
They used a PR system, definitely far more fair than First Past the Post, which is used in the UK and I had thought was always used in the US.
Only 3 candidates in this vote, so relatively simple:

First Count:
Peltola DEM 76k
Palin REP 59k
Begich REP 53k
(Republicans with approx 60% of the first choice votes)

Begich eliminated and his votes transferred as follows:
Peltola 15k
Palin 27k
Non-transferrable 11k

Final result
Peltola 91k
Palin 86k

In my experience, many real life Republicans (unlike the ones on social media and on here) are mortified with Trump's antics and the backing he gets from GOP. Completely embarrassed about the lies spewed about the election, FBI, etc., etc.
I think this is shown by the number who gave their second choice to the Democrat candidate here rather than the Trump candidate (35% of those who transferred, did so to the Democrat).

And of course Palin was whining about the ranked choice system and how it robbed her and conservatives of victory. Nothing to do with her own toxicity and pure laziness.

NYC used ranked choice last year in the mayoral elections. Hope it becomes far more widespread. We ended up with a moderate, mainstream mayor. Definitely a good way to filter out the headcases and extremists, of whatever leaning.

I'm guessing if she had gotten elected she would have been completely useless and have spent more time on Fox News than actually doing her job. The voters probably knew that and that's why she did so poorly on the transfers

Hopefully the lady who won, realizes neither she nor her party were the first choice of 60% of the voters and legislates appropriately
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 02, 2022, 11:54:43 AM
Well she's straight back into election mode with only two months until the seat's up for grabs again. I doubt if we'll see too much legislation anyway in that time.

Hopefully Alaska keeps its head and puts an end to Palin once and for all. They have another GOP option if that's what they favour.

Peltola ran on stuff like fisheries, infrastructure, wages etc. Whereas all Palin has to offer is MAGAt bullshit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 02, 2022, 02:24:50 PM
75m people are a threat to democracy ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 02, 2022, 03:42:34 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fbn4BfKXkAAUraH?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 02, 2022, 06:47:39 PM
Tell me you voted for Trump without telling me you voted for Trump

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/301152898_2638301986326160_7991494106872110796_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s1080x2048&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=jNjdssstTfAAX8Ekylv&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9MWwvzVGuxtpKlpUbON_2zGKXfshmEO3OWlSOm-y5TXg&oe=6316B5BA)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 02, 2022, 09:52:31 PM
White House staff need to do a better job reminding joe who the enemies of the state are, he forgot already .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 03, 2022, 03:59:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2022, 12:32:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:16:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)

I'm in Massachusetts and my sons go to school with the kids of middle class and upper middle class white liberals for the most part

They're in high school now, but from a class of about 30 in junior High-there are 3 transgender people-1 girl is now a boy and 2 boys are now girls (all 3 are kids of teachers)

Now maybe they are genuinely transgender or non binary, but a lot of this is flat out attention seeking IMHO which just takes attention and resources away from genuinely transgender people

(Edit-do you live in the States? There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone. This is actually something you have to deal with daily believe it or not. One of our neighbors sons is also transgender so you have to tread very carefully when asking about him/her))

"There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone"

Really?

Where?

What does "dead name" mean?

CA passed a law that was struck down in court-actually you could get jail time under that law

https://www.them.us/story/california-court-case-misgendering-law-struck-down/amp

Another similar case in WI:

https://www.thecentersquare.com/wisconsin/will-defending-middle-schoolers-accused-of-misgendering-in-kiel-schools/article_72e6d6f8-d5e0-11ec-bd7a-33787320731a.amp.html

Deadnaming is when you continue to call someone by their old name (eg John transitions to Joan yet you continue to call them John)

Ok.

Yes, I can obviously see the first amendment issues.

Doesn't mean that the dignity of trans people should not be respected or that someone who would intentionally and repeatedly maliciously "deadname" someone isn't an ignorant p***k.

Agree-but would it be something you'd  jail a person for?

Its depends on the severity.

In most cases, obviously no (which doesn't mean I wouldn't give someone who worked for me the boot for such behaviour if its was on a malicious basis).

In the more severe cases you'd probably be crossing the lines into other criminal areas anyway. But, we already have similar when hate crime offenses are added onto other violence or harassment.

Its a novel issue and one society is grappling with.  I certainly don't have well thought through answers.

https://dupagepolicyjournal.com/stories/630700500-naperville-third-grade-teacher-instructs-eight-year-old-boys-in-how-to-act-like-girls

"Naperville third grade teacher Nick Cosme paints his nails like a woman does— and is teaching eight-year-old boys in his Elmwood School class how to do the same."

This is the type of nonsense that led to Younkin getting elected.

This guy obviously has an agenda that he's pushing on 8 year old boys and the parents who speak up against it are labeled as fascists and Nazis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on September 06, 2022, 01:35:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2022, 03:59:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2022, 12:32:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:16:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)

I'm in Massachusetts and my sons go to school with the kids of middle class and upper middle class white liberals for the most part

They're in high school now, but from a class of about 30 in junior High-there are 3 transgender people-1 girl is now a boy and 2 boys are now girls (all 3 are kids of teachers)

Now maybe they are genuinely transgender or non binary, but a lot of this is flat out attention seeking IMHO which just takes attention and resources away from genuinely transgender people

(Edit-do you live in the States? There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone. This is actually something you have to deal with daily believe it or not. One of our neighbors sons is also transgender so you have to tread very carefully when asking about him/her))

"There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone"

Really?

Where?

What does "dead name" mean?

CA passed a law that was struck down in court-actually you could get jail time under that law

https://www.them.us/story/california-court-case-misgendering-law-struck-down/amp

Another similar case in WI:

https://www.thecentersquare.com/wisconsin/will-defending-middle-schoolers-accused-of-misgendering-in-kiel-schools/article_72e6d6f8-d5e0-11ec-bd7a-33787320731a.amp.html

Deadnaming is when you continue to call someone by their old name (eg John transitions to Joan yet you continue to call them John)

Ok.

Yes, I can obviously see the first amendment issues.

Doesn't mean that the dignity of trans people should not be respected or that someone who would intentionally and repeatedly maliciously "deadname" someone isn't an ignorant p***k.

Agree-but would it be something you'd  jail a person for?

Its depends on the severity.

In most cases, obviously no (which doesn't mean I wouldn't give someone who worked for me the boot for such behaviour if its was on a malicious basis).

In the more severe cases you'd probably be crossing the lines into other criminal areas anyway. But, we already have similar when hate crime offenses are added onto other violence or harassment.

Its a novel issue and one society is grappling with.  I certainly don't have well thought through answers.

https://dupagepolicyjournal.com/stories/630700500-naperville-third-grade-teacher-instructs-eight-year-old-boys-in-how-to-act-like-girls

"Naperville third grade teacher Nick Cosme paints his nails like a woman does— and is teaching eight-year-old boys in his Elmwood School class how to do the same."

This is the type of nonsense that led to Younkin getting elected.

This guy obviously has an agenda that he's pushing on 8 year old boys and the parents who speak up against it are labeled as fascists and Nazis
I didn't read in the article that you and like minded victimised people are fascist and nazi,  but I wouldn't argue against the labeling ;D
For those of the reactionary ilk, emotion does a great job in filling in the spaces that lack of rationality allows.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2022, 11:28:34 AM
Quote from: Main Street on September 06, 2022, 01:35:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2022, 03:59:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2022, 12:32:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 07:16:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 31, 2022, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on August 31, 2022, 02:59:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 31, 2022, 02:16:37 PM
I was away over the weekend and heard an interesting story

A girl who used to be in my sons class has come out as a lesbian

She is in a lesbian relationship with a biological male who is trans and identifies as a female

Doesn't bother or upset me in the least, but I wonder how the heck people are supposed to keep all this stuff straight (no pun intended) when it comes to the use of pronouns etc

Where do you live , ? Your son goes to the ""Jerry Springer school"" ? Personally  i dont know or never have known any trans gender person . I am sure In my chance meeting of one , the pronoun will be something we can get past quiet easily , even if i get it wrong , I dont see it as being that big of deal . I   think on the large scheme of things, it is way way down the list and it is only a few ""bigots"" that would be putting any thought into this . Now of course that is just my opinion  ;)

I'm in Massachusetts and my sons go to school with the kids of middle class and upper middle class white liberals for the most part

They're in high school now, but from a class of about 30 in junior High-there are 3 transgender people-1 girl is now a boy and 2 boys are now girls (all 3 are kids of teachers)

Now maybe they are genuinely transgender or non binary, but a lot of this is flat out attention seeking IMHO which just takes attention and resources away from genuinely transgender people

(Edit-do you live in the States? There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone. This is actually something you have to deal with daily believe it or not. One of our neighbors sons is also transgender so you have to tread very carefully when asking about him/her))

"There are laws being proposed that would make it a crime to mis gender or dead name someone"

Really?

Where?

What does "dead name" mean?

CA passed a law that was struck down in court-actually you could get jail time under that law

https://www.them.us/story/california-court-case-misgendering-law-struck-down/amp

Another similar case in WI:

https://www.thecentersquare.com/wisconsin/will-defending-middle-schoolers-accused-of-misgendering-in-kiel-schools/article_72e6d6f8-d5e0-11ec-bd7a-33787320731a.amp.html

Deadnaming is when you continue to call someone by their old name (eg John transitions to Joan yet you continue to call them John)

Ok.

Yes, I can obviously see the first amendment issues.

Doesn't mean that the dignity of trans people should not be respected or that someone who would intentionally and repeatedly maliciously "deadname" someone isn't an ignorant p***k.

Agree-but would it be something you'd  jail a person for?

Its depends on the severity.

In most cases, obviously no (which doesn't mean I wouldn't give someone who worked for me the boot for such behaviour if its was on a malicious basis).

In the more severe cases you'd probably be crossing the lines into other criminal areas anyway. But, we already have similar when hate crime offenses are added onto other violence or harassment.

Its a novel issue and one society is grappling with.  I certainly don't have well thought through answers.

https://dupagepolicyjournal.com/stories/630700500-naperville-third-grade-teacher-instructs-eight-year-old-boys-in-how-to-act-like-girls

"Naperville third grade teacher Nick Cosme paints his nails like a woman does— and is teaching eight-year-old boys in his Elmwood School class how to do the same."

This is the type of nonsense that led to Younkin getting elected.

This guy obviously has an agenda that he's pushing on 8 year old boys and the parents who speak up against it are labeled as fascists and Nazis
I didn't read in the article that you and like minded victimised people are fascist and nazi,  but I wouldn't argue against the labeling ;D
For those of the reactionary ilk, emotion does a great job in filling in the spaces that lack of rationality allows.

So having an issue with a teacher pushing a trans agenda on 8 year olds makes one a Nazi?

Interesting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2022, 12:30:07 PM
When the teacher is question, who is preaching inclusiveness and that differences are ok, is publicly accused of "grooming" children, absolutely there are fascist tendencies at play. This is far from the only example.

Do you have any issues with the whitewashing of history curriculums being driven by the likes of Hillsdale College through their partnerships with the governors of various states, not least DeSantis?

Washington and Jefferson were "against slavery" supposedly according to these accounts, but the fact that both were substantial slave owners is not mentioned. Separation of church and state, a central plank of the US for centuries, is suddenly not a founding principle of the US anymore.

And sure if we're throwing out anecdotes (Florida again)...

https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/article265186566.html (https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/article265186566.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2022, 12:46:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 12:30:07 PM
When the teacher is question, who is preaching inclusiveness and that differences are ok, is publicly accused of "grooming" children, absolutely there are fascist tendencies at play. This is far from the only example.

Do you have any issues with the whitewashing of history curriculums being driven by the likes of Hillsdale College through their partnerships with the governors of various states, not least DeSantis?

Washington and Jefferson were "against slavery" supposedly according to these accounts, but the fact that both were substantial slave owners is not mentioned. Separation of church and state, a central plank of the US for centuries, is suddenly not a founding principle of the US anymore.

And sure if we're throwing out anecdotes (Florida again)...

https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/article265186566.html (https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/article265186566.html)

So you don't have an issue with this teacher pushing a trans agenda on 8 year olds?

So if you are a parent (who's paying this teachers salary and benefits) who takes issue with this-they should just STFU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2022, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 12:46:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 12:30:07 PM
When the teacher is question, who is preaching inclusiveness and that differences are ok, is publicly accused of "grooming" children, absolutely there are fascist tendencies at play. This is far from the only example.

Do you have any issues with the whitewashing of history curriculums being driven by the likes of Hillsdale College through their partnerships with the governors of various states, not least DeSantis?

Washington and Jefferson were "against slavery" supposedly according to these accounts, but the fact that both were substantial slave owners is not mentioned. Separation of church and state, a central plank of the US for centuries, is suddenly not a founding principle of the US anymore.

And sure if we're throwing out anecdotes (Florida again)...

https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/article265186566.html (https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/article265186566.html)

So you don't have an issue with this teacher pushing a trans agenda on 8 year olds?

So if you are a parent (who's paying this teachers salary and benefits) who takes issue with this-they should just STFU

Don't really see the harm, if it amounts to talking about it being ok for a boy to paint their nails, a story about a man who wears a dress, and pronouns. There is nothing wrong with making kids aware that some people are different, and that that is ok to be so. Especially before they hit those years when every difference becomes material for bullying and abuse.

There is a big difference between raising concerns and calling in concerted, well-funded, over-reactive politically-connected slander and termination.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:08:23 PM
So what would you say to the parents (like myself) who view this as an overstep by the teacher and are not comfortable that he is  instilling his values on our kids at an age that we feel is inappropriate?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2022, 01:20:53 PM
I don't know.

I guess I would debate the issues and concerns with you if you're open to it. Beyond that it becomes a political and choice thing.

I won't be enrolling my kids in any Hillsdale College-Ron DeSantis christian nationalist-influenced program where the history of slavery is downplayed, where the supposed supremacy of white Christian culture is promoted and pseudoscience is taught.

For now, I will be keeping them in school in NYC where, despite other issues, bigotry and pseudoscience is not a factor.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 06, 2022, 01:24:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:08:23 PM
So what would you say to the parents (like myself) who view this as an overstep by the teacher and are not comfortable that he is  instilling his values on our kids at an age that we feel is inappropriate?
Out of interest what values is it that he's instilling that you have an issue with?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
There's nothing to debate

"I'm uncomfortable with you pushing an agenda on my 8 year old without my consent and I want you to stop".  Is that an unreasonable position?

(As I mentioned earlier in the thread-3 kids from  the class of my sons old school are now transgender . All 3 are the kids of teachers. I'm very, very cynical and skeptical when it comes to what is being promoted in public schools without parents consent)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2022, 01:38:28 PM
I guess I'll make sure I vote then.

Because in the US, opposition to gay and trans issues goes hand in hand with the promotion of (literally) whitewashed history and science denial.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:40:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 06, 2022, 01:24:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:08:23 PM
So what would you say to the parents (like myself) who view this as an overstep by the teacher and are not comfortable that he is  instilling his values on our kids at an age that we feel is inappropriate?
Out of interest what values is it that he's instilling that you have an issue with?

From the article

"But the school says it supports including lessons on cross-dressing and so-called "trans-sexuality," or when a man pretends to be a woman, in its third grade curriculum."

His values lead him (and the school) to believe that this is an appropriate conversation for them  to be having with someone else 8 year old-I disagree

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 06, 2022, 01:45:36 PM
Is knowledge of transgender a bad thing? Perhaps the age is a bit young for them to understand but I can't foresee what issues it's likely to cause. understanding of different people usually doesn't cause adverse effects. Whereas suppression rarely helps.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 01:38:28 PM
I guess I'll make sure I vote then.

Because in the US, opposition to gay and trans issues goes hand in hand with the promotion of (literally) whitewashed history and science denial.


I'm against this because (in my opinion) it's age inappropriate.

So I should I just sit down and STFU (and am a homophone/science denier for having the audacity for even questioning what my kids are being "taught" in school"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 06, 2022, 01:45:36 PM
Is knowledge of transgender a bad thing? Perhaps the age is a bit young for them to understand but I can't foresee what issues it's likely to cause. understanding of different people usually doesn't cause adverse effects. Whereas suppression rarely helps.

My sons have had gay teachers and friends whose parents are same sex couples as far back as I can remember. They have 3 former classmates who are transgender.

As a parent I do not want a teacher taking it upon themselves to promote a particular agenda or narrative to my 8 year old when it comes to matters of transgenderism

And on that note-well agree to disagree
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2022, 02:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 01:38:28 PM
I guess I'll make sure I vote then.

Because in the US, opposition to gay and trans issues goes hand in hand with the promotion of (literally) whitewashed history and science denial.


I'm against this because (in my opinion) it's age inappropriate.

So I should I just sit down and STFU (and am a homophone/science denier for having the audacity for even questioning what my kids are being "taught" in school"

If you're going to rely on outside forces to come in and start throwing the "groomer" label around in a case like this, I've no sympathy for your position.

Beyond that, you personally just said there was no debate to be had, so I'm not sure what else to tell you beyond fighting it out on the political stage, where all the associated baggage for your position (even if not your personal beliefs) comes into the picture.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2022, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 02:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 01:38:28 PM
I guess I'll make sure I vote then.

Because in the US, opposition to gay and trans issues goes hand in hand with the promotion of (literally) whitewashed history and science denial.


I'm against this because (in my opinion) it's age inappropriate.

So I should I just sit down and STFU (and am a homophone/science denier for having the audacity for even questioning what my kids are being "taught" in school"

If you're going to rely on outside forces to come in and start throwing the "groomer" label around in a case like this, I've no sympathy for your position.

Beyond that, you personally just said there was no debate to be had, so I'm not sure what else to tell you beyond fighting it out on the political stage, where all the associated baggage for your position comes into the picture.

My wife and I educated to the postgraduate level (as are most of our friends)

Why do you think we would rely on  "outside forces" to come in and fight our corner for us ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2022, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 02:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 01:38:28 PM
I guess I'll make sure I vote then.

Because in the US, opposition to gay and trans issues goes hand in hand with the promotion of (literally) whitewashed history and science denial.


I'm against this because (in my opinion) it's age inappropriate.

So I should I just sit down and STFU (and am a homophone/science denier for having the audacity for even questioning what my kids are being "taught" in school"

If you're going to rely on outside forces to come in and start throwing the "groomer" label around in a case like this, I've no sympathy for your position.

Beyond that, you personally just said there was no debate to be had, so I'm not sure what else to tell you beyond fighting it out on the political stage, where all the associated baggage for your position comes into the picture.

My wife and I educated to the postgraduate level (as are most of our friends)

Why do you think we would rely on  "outside forces" to come in and fight our corner for us ?

I was referring to the entity in your article which accused the teacher in question of being a groomer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 06, 2022, 02:43:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 02:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 01:38:28 PM
I guess I'll make sure I vote then.

Because in the US, opposition to gay and trans issues goes hand in hand with the promotion of (literally) whitewashed history and science denial.


I'm against this because (in my opinion) it's age inappropriate.

So I should I just sit down and STFU (and am a homophone/science denier for having the audacity for even questioning what my kids are being "taught" in school"

If you're going to rely on outside forces to come in and start throwing the "groomer" label around in a case like this, I've no sympathy for your position.

Beyond that, you personally just said there was no debate to be had, so I'm not sure what else to tell you beyond fighting it out on the political stage, where all the associated baggage for your position comes into the picture.

My wife and I educated to the postgraduate level (as are most of our friends)

Why do you think we would rely on  "outside forces" to come in and fight our corner for us ?

I was referring to the entity in your article which accused the teacher in question of being a groomer.

What if I'm just a concerned parent and I'm against this because (in my opinion) it's age inappropriate.

Should I just sit down and STFU (because if I do otherwise, I'll be accused of being a homophobel)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2022, 04:02:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 02:43:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 02:00:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 06, 2022, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2022, 01:38:28 PM
I guess I'll make sure I vote then.

Because in the US, opposition to gay and trans issues goes hand in hand with the promotion of (literally) whitewashed history and science denial.


I'm against this because (in my opinion) it's age inappropriate.

So I should I just sit down and STFU (and am a homophone/science denier for having the audacity for even questioning what my kids are being "taught" in school"

If you're going to rely on outside forces to come in and start throwing the "groomer" label around in a case like this, I've no sympathy for your position.

Beyond that, you personally just said there was no debate to be had, so I'm not sure what else to tell you beyond fighting it out on the political stage, where all the associated baggage for your position comes into the picture.

My wife and I educated to the postgraduate level (as are most of our friends)

Why do you think we would rely on  "outside forces" to come in and fight our corner for us ?

I was referring to the entity in your article which accused the teacher in question of being a groomer.

What if I'm just a concerned parent and I'm against this because (in my opinion) it's age inappropriate.

Should I just sit down and STFU (because if I do otherwise, I'll be accused of being a homophobel)

Well then one would expect you to engage in discussion about when it IS appropriate and not say there's nothing to debate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2022, 04:05:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 06, 2022, 01:45:36 PM
Is knowledge of transgender a bad thing? Perhaps the age is a bit young for them to understand but I can't foresee what issues it's likely to cause. understanding of different people usually doesn't cause adverse effects. Whereas suppression rarely helps.

Suppression helps those who want to maintain the traditional status quo and not acknowledge that there are real people with real biological issues they're trying to live with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 06, 2022, 05:02:52 PM
The Tavistock GIDS clinic was recently closed. Gender Dysphoria once diagnosed there meant fast tracking onto gender medication and the surgical pathway. Patients presenting with anorexia were put on a a programme of talking therapy to get to the root of the problem. Trans kids were not.
Whistleblowers from the Tavistock including David Bell found that most patients with dysphoria would , with the anorexia approach, eventually realise they were either gay or lesbian . There were also large numbers of autistic patients. Lesbianism is real . So is autism. There is very weak medical proof of the existence of a cohort of trans individuals. It's all in the mind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 06, 2022, 09:09:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 06, 2022, 05:02:52 PM
The Tavistock GIDS clinic was recently closed. Gender Dysphoria once diagnosed there meant fast tracking onto gender medication and the surgical pathway. Patients presenting with anorexia were put on a a programme of talking therapy to get to the root of the problem. Trans kids were not.
Whistleblowers from the Tavistock including David Bell found that most patients with dysphoria would , with the anorexia approach, eventually realise they were either gay or lesbian . There were also large numbers of autistic patients. Lesbianism is real . So is autism. There is very weak medical proof of the existence of a cohort of trans individuals. It's all in the mind.
you could get fired from your job in this country for stating that .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on September 08, 2022, 02:43:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3PTuADIHQ
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 14, 2022, 04:30:32 PM
 FBI not  going after the thousands of gangsters flowing over the southern border or the anarchy going on in cities countrywide , no the my pillow guy is who they are after .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 14, 2022, 10:17:27 PM
Apparently today the conservatives are outraged about a black mermaid. And after all the Africans they threw in the ocean...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on September 14, 2022, 11:14:18 PM
Zzzzzzz.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 15, 2022, 12:08:27 AM
Not alone was Steele on the FBI payroll, but now it's emerged that his primary subsource, Danchenko was as well.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 01:45:51 AM
Does that mean Trump did not take top secure files from the White House, did not lie about it, did not change his story on a daily basis of  why he did steal the files after the raid, thinking he still had presidential powers because he was under the delusion that he was still the president?

Let the courts decide the upon the matter, if there is still an iota of judicial prudence left in the USA legal system.
Screaming about a deep state  conspiracy is just noise to deflect from the relevant  important matters to do with  state security at hand before the court, not least an objective judicial review over the extent of the unlawful conduct of the ex president while in office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 15, 2022, 02:09:19 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2022, 12:08:27 AM
Not alone was Steele on the FBI payroll, but now it's emerged that his primary subsource, Danchenko was as well.
paying him to tell them lies that they knew were lies . GUBU
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 15, 2022, 03:20:38 AM
Quote from: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 01:45:51 AM
Does that mean Trump did not take top secure files from the White House, did not lie about it, did not change his story on a daily basis of  why he did steal the files after the raid, thinking he still had presidential powers because he was under the delusion that he was still the president?

Let the courts decide the upon the matter, if there is still an iota of judicial prudence left in the USA legal system.
Screaming about a deep state  conspiracy is just noise to deflect from the relevant  important matters to do with  state security at hand before the court, not least an objective judicial review over the extent of the unlawful conduct of the ex president while in office.
basing this on what ? A few pictures of classified folders on a closet floor
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 15, 2022, 04:42:47 AM
The right's finest never ceases to entertain:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305058809_444203001073039_3676024748752335675_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SESPt2KdtB8AX9BpeYK&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9_2oGmZWZtCHwsKUDy0Xv5W9Ll4qHXsDdkpXeVune7jg&oe=63288861)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on September 15, 2022, 09:34:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8MACDZ3RI

The left's finest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2022, 12:24:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2022, 12:08:27 AM
Not alone was Steele on the FBI payroll, but now it's emerged that his primary subsource, Danchenko was as well.

Whoever would have thought that intelligence agencies compensate their sources for their work!

You should give those FIFA lads a ring to sympathize with them. Steele was a paid informant for the FBI on those corruption investigations about ten years ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2022, 12:30:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 14, 2022, 04:30:32 PM
FBI not  going after the thousands of gangsters flowing over the southern border or the anarchy going on in cities countrywide , no the my pillow guy is who they are after .

Don't worry. Bannon is rustling up a fundraising scam scheme as we speak to enable good men like yourself to send your hard-earned cash to the Trump-Bannon Slush My Pillow Guy Victim Fund.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 15, 2022, 12:32:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 15, 2022, 03:20:38 AM
Quote from: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 01:45:51 AM
Does that mean Trump did not take top secure files from the White House, did not lie about it, did not change his story on a daily basis of  why he did steal the files after the raid, thinking he still had presidential powers because he was under the delusion that he was still the president?

Let the courts decide the upon the matter, if there is still an iota of judicial prudence left in the USA legal system.
Screaming about a deep state  conspiracy is just noise to deflect from the relevant  important matters to do with  state security at hand before the court, not least an objective judicial review over the extent of the unlawful conduct of the ex president while in office.
basing this on what ? A few pictures of classified folders on a closet floor

;D ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 15, 2022, 02:02:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2022, 12:30:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 14, 2022, 04:30:32 PM
FBI not  going after the thousands of gangsters flowing over the southern border or the anarchy going on in cities countrywide , no the my pillow guy is who they are after .

Don't worry. Bannon is rustling up a fundraising scam scheme as we speak to enable good men like yourself to send your hard-earned cash to the Trump-Bannon Slush My Pillow Guy Victim Fund.
like Joe Biden said I may be Irish but I ain't stupid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 15, 2022, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 15, 2022, 09:34:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8MACDZ3RI

The left's finest
the politician interviewed there is the poster child for San Francisco a complete out of touch idiot . Thanks for posting unfortunately I see it first hand when I go to sf and the mental illness they talk about that you see on the streets is from irreversible brain damage a lot of these people have suffered from drug use , if California spent a fraction of what they do on homelessness to reopen some mental hospitals  they would help all the people of California not just funding their associates in the corrupt charities who get most of the $. One party rule when it's the democrats = sf la. Detroit Baltimore, Philadelphia, NY all hell holes and getting worse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 15, 2022, 09:17:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2022, 12:24:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2022, 12:08:27 AM
Not alone was Steele on the FBI payroll, but now it's emerged that his primary subsource, Danchenko was as well.

Whoever would have thought that intelligence agencies compensate their sources for their work!

You should give those FIFA lads a ring to sympathize with them. Steele was a paid informant for the FBI on those corruption investigations about ten years ago.

Whoever would have thought that intelligence agencies would compensate someone who they previously suspected of being a Russian spy-does that make them colluders?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 16, 2022, 05:04:05 AM
Newsom asking the DOJ to charge the right wing extremist governors who have been trafficking people as a political stunt. A busload of them was even dropped off at the Vice President's house. Every time I think "we've surely reached the bottom now," the Rethuglicans manage to plumb the depths even deeper. Where is this going to end? Gas chambers? These fascists must be stopped.

Kudos to Newsom for stepping up and fighting back.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcuE0h_aIAMhVQ3?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 10:42:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2022, 09:17:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2022, 12:24:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2022, 12:08:27 AM
Not alone was Steele on the FBI payroll, but now it's emerged that his primary subsource, Danchenko was as well.

Whoever would have thought that intelligence agencies compensate their sources for their work!

You should give those FIFA lads a ring to sympathize with them. Steele was a paid informant for the FBI on those corruption investigations about ten years ago.

Whoever would have thought that intelligence agencies would compensate someone who they previously suspected of being a Russian spy-does that make them colluders?

Did they determine he WAS a Russian spy?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 16, 2022, 12:20:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 10:42:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2022, 09:17:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2022, 12:24:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2022, 12:08:27 AM
Not alone was Steele on the FBI payroll, but now it's emerged that his primary subsource, Danchenko was as well.

Whoever would have thought that intelligence agencies compensate their sources for their work!

You should give those FIFA lads a ring to sympathize with them. Steele was a paid informant for the FBI on those corruption investigations about ten years ago.

Whoever would have thought that intelligence agencies would compensate someone who they previously suspected of being a Russian spy-does that make them colluders?

Did they determine he WAS a Russian spy?

Doesn't matter

He was suspected of being a spy and viewed as a Natl Security threat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 12:28:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 12:20:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 10:42:40 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2022, 09:17:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 15, 2022, 12:24:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 15, 2022, 12:08:27 AM
Not alone was Steele on the FBI payroll, but now it's emerged that his primary subsource, Danchenko was as well.

Whoever would have thought that intelligence agencies compensate their sources for their work!

You should give those FIFA lads a ring to sympathize with them. Steele was a paid informant for the FBI on those corruption investigations about ten years ago.

Whoever would have thought that intelligence agencies would compensate someone who they previously suspected of being a Russian spy-does that make them colluders?

Did they determine he WAS a Russian spy?

Doesn't matter

He was suspected of being a spy and viewed as a Natl Security threat

How many people have been on the US intelligence agencies' payrolls over the years and still are who were initially viewed with suspicion?

Does it not go with the territory when you're trying to cultivate foreign intelligence (or indeed domestic) sources that you'd look suspiciously at them?

Is the whole point of the exercise not to get inside sources with access to important information?

Whether you're spying on a foreign entity, looking at the activities of your own people, or even  just a city cop trying to gather information on the local drug trade?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 12:33:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 16, 2022, 05:04:05 AM
Newsom asking the DOJ to charge the right wing extremist governors who have been trafficking people as a political stunt. A busload of them was even dropped off at the Vice President's house. Every time I think "we've surely reached the bottom now," the Rethuglicans manage to plumb the depths even deeper. Where is this going to end? Gas chambers? These fascists must be stopped.

Kudos to Newsom for stepping up and fighting back.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcuE0h_aIAMhVQ3?format=jpg&name=medium)

DeSantis knows his supporters are fine with treating illegal immigrants, even asylum seekers, as sub-human pawns with no dignity, to be toyed with and callously dumped wherever to make the best performative political point. He doesn't care what normal decent people think.

Let's just hope they're not stealing their kids this time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 15, 2022, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 15, 2022, 09:34:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8MACDZ3RI

The left's finest
the politician interviewed there is the poster child for San Francisco a complete out of touch idiot . Thanks for posting unfortunately I see it first hand when I go to sf and the mental illness they talk about that you see on the streets is from irreversible brain damage a lot of these people have suffered from drug use , if California spent a fraction of what they do on homelessness to reopen some mental hospitals  they would help all the people of California not just funding their associates in the corrupt charities who get most of the $. One party rule when it's the democrats = sf la. Detroit Baltimore, Philadelphia, NY all hell holes and getting worse

New York is a hell hole and getting worse??

When's the last time you were there?

I either cycle or take the subway ten miles each way from Queens to work in upper Manhattan every day. Apart from higher homeless visibility (although that has decreased since Adams got in), things don't look that much different to anytime over the past ten years. Like any big city, you have to be careful when and where you go. It was the same in my college years in Dublin. Myself and the missus were out in the East Village last weekend and had a very nice night out. You'd swear listening to the likes of yourself that we couldn't stick our head out the door.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on September 16, 2022, 03:19:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 15, 2022, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 15, 2022, 09:34:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8MACDZ3RI

The left's finest
the politician interviewed there is the poster child for San Francisco a complete out of touch idiot . Thanks for posting unfortunately I see it first hand when I go to sf and the mental illness they talk about that you see on the streets is from irreversible brain damage a lot of these people have suffered from drug use , if California spent a fraction of what they do on homelessness to reopen some mental hospitals  they would help all the people of California not just funding their associates in the corrupt charities who get most of the $. One party rule when it's the democrats = sf la. Detroit Baltimore, Philadelphia, NY all hell holes and getting worse

New York is a hell hole and getting worse??

When's the last time you were there?

I either cycle or take the subway ten miles each way from Queens to work in upper Manhattan every day. Apart from higher homeless visibility (although that has decreased since Adams got in), things don't look that much different to anytime over the past ten years. Like any big city, you have to be careful when and where you go. It was the same in my college years in Dublin. Myself and the missus were out in the East Village last weekend and had a very nice night out. You'd swear listening to the likes of yourself that we couldn't stick our head out the door.

My kids have been traveling to and from school on the subway alone since the start of middle school (11 years old) and have never had a single incident that worried them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 16, 2022, 03:58:09 PM
I was there for 2 days in June

Subway was frightening

People urinating, masturbating and a generally threatening and menacing atmosphere.

I saw a teenager (backed up by a gang of friends) threatening to shoot someone who was minding their own business (guy getting threatened was in front of me going down an escalator with his girlfriend at Grand Central and the other guy was coming up)

Aggressive and obnoxious panhandlers

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 16, 2022, 04:29:57 PM
This thread, 🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 04:47:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 03:58:09 PM
I was there for 2 days in June

Subway was frightening

People urinating, masturbating and a generally threatening and menacing atmosphere.

I saw a teenager (backed up by a gang of friends) threatening to shoot someone who was minding their own business (guy getting threatened was in front of me going down an escalator with his girlfriend at Grand Central and the other guy was coming up)

Aggressive and obnoxious panhandlers

"A generally threatening and menacing atmosphere"??

And all that in two days worth of subway journeys??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 16, 2022, 04:48:58 PM
oh no - how did poor whitey survive?  :'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 16, 2022, 04:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 04:47:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 03:58:09 PM
I was there for 2 days in June

Subway was frightening

People urinating, masturbating and a generally threatening and menacing atmosphere.

I saw a teenager (backed up by a gang of friends) threatening to shoot someone who was minding their own business (guy getting threatened was in front of me going down an escalator with his girlfriend at Grand Central and the other guy was coming up)

Aggressive and obnoxious panhandlers

"A generally threatening and menacing atmosphere"??

And all that in two days worth of subway journeys??

Yes-ever time I travelled on the subway I felt unsafe

I got off the Metro North in Grand Central and when making my way down to the Subway (Red Line 2-I think-goes to Lower Manhattan and WTC) I saw the guy getting threatened with being shot

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 05:13:48 PM
Well, the most recent ridership numbers for the subway are 3.75 million on Wednesday.

The highest since COVID.

I've never seen any gun threats on the subway in close to two decades.

I saw someone (strung out on drugs) masturbating at the side of a street once, but never in the subway and never on any other occasion.

People pissing- don't think I've seen that, but I've seen signs that they do, especially in the Times Sq station. I've also seen people pissing all over the place in Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 05:19:42 PM
Quote from: dec on September 16, 2022, 03:19:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 15, 2022, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 15, 2022, 09:34:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8MACDZ3RI

The left's finest
the politician interviewed there is the poster child for San Francisco a complete out of touch idiot . Thanks for posting unfortunately I see it first hand when I go to sf and the mental illness they talk about that you see on the streets is from irreversible brain damage a lot of these people have suffered from drug use , if California spent a fraction of what they do on homelessness to reopen some mental hospitals  they would help all the people of California not just funding their associates in the corrupt charities who get most of the $. One party rule when it's the democrats = sf la. Detroit Baltimore, Philadelphia, NY all hell holes and getting worse

New York is a hell hole and getting worse??

When's the last time you were there?

I either cycle or take the subway ten miles each way from Queens to work in upper Manhattan every day. Apart from higher homeless visibility (although that has decreased since Adams got in), things don't look that much different to anytime over the past ten years. Like any big city, you have to be careful when and where you go. It was the same in my college years in Dublin. Myself and the missus were out in the East Village last weekend and had a very nice night out. You'd swear listening to the likes of yourself that we couldn't stick our head out the door.

My kids have been traveling to and from school on the subway alone since the start of middle school (11 years old) and have never had a single incident that worried them.

My now-15 year old nephew has been going in and out to high school in the city by himself for the past year.

Friends of ours have a 13 year old girl and a 15 year old boy who also take the subway to and from their respective schools, albeit both staying in Queens.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 16, 2022, 05:33:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 04:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 04:47:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 03:58:09 PM
I was there for 2 days in June

Subway was frightening

People urinating, masturbating and a generally threatening and menacing atmosphere.

I saw a teenager (backed up by a gang of friends) threatening to shoot someone who was minding their own business (guy getting threatened was in front of me going down an escalator with his girlfriend at Grand Central and the other guy was coming up)

Aggressive and obnoxious panhandlers

"A generally threatening and menacing atmosphere"??

And all that in two days worth of subway journeys??

Yes-ever time I travelled on the subway I felt unsafe

I got off the Metro North in Grand Central and when making my way down to the Subway (Red Line 2-I think-goes to Lower Manhattan and WTC) I saw the guy getting threatened with being shot
I have to get the Bart tonight and am not looking forward to it , hopefully I'm still around to report back tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 16, 2022, 05:56:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 05:19:42 PM
Quote from: dec on September 16, 2022, 03:19:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 15, 2022, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 15, 2022, 09:34:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8MACDZ3RI

The left's finest
the politician interviewed there is the poster child for San Francisco a complete out of touch idiot . Thanks for posting unfortunately I see it first hand when I go to sf and the mental illness they talk about that you see on the streets is from irreversible brain damage a lot of these people have suffered from drug use , if California spent a fraction of what they do on homelessness to reopen some mental hospitals  they would help all the people of California not just funding their associates in the corrupt charities who get most of the $. One party rule when it's the democrats = sf la. Detroit Baltimore, Philadelphia, NY all hell holes and getting worse

New York is a hell hole and getting worse??

When's the last time you were there?

I either cycle or take the subway ten miles each way from Queens to work in upper Manhattan every day. Apart from higher homeless visibility (although that has decreased since Adams got in), things don't look that much different to anytime over the past ten years. Like any big city, you have to be careful when and where you go. It was the same in my college years in Dublin. Myself and the missus were out in the East Village last weekend and had a very nice night out. You'd swear listening to the likes of yourself that we couldn't stick our head out the door.

My kids have been traveling to and from school on the subway alone since the start of middle school (11 years old) and have never had a single incident that worried them.

My now-15 year old nephew has been going in and out to high school in the city by himself for the past year.

Friends of ours have a 13 year old girl and a 15 year old boy who also take the subway to and from their respective schools, albeit both staying in Queens.

I was mainly going between Times Sq and the Financial District and it was a $hit show

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rudi on September 16, 2022, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 05:13:48 PM
Well, the most recent ridership numbers for the subway are 3.75 million on Wednesday.

The highest since COVID.

I've never seen any gun threats on the subway in close to two decades.

I saw someone (strung out on drugs) masturbating at the side of a street once, but never in the subway and never on any other occasion.

People pissing- don't think I've seen that, but I've seen signs that they do, especially in the Times Sq station. I've also seen people pissing all over the place in Ireland.

Bet he was looking at you ;D The fella jerking off that is ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 16, 2022, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 12:33:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 16, 2022, 05:04:05 AM
Newsom asking the DOJ to charge the right wing extremist governors who have been trafficking people as a political stunt. A busload of them was even dropped off at the Vice President's house. Every time I think "we've surely reached the bottom now," the Rethuglicans manage to plumb the depths even deeper. Where is this going to end? Gas chambers? These fascists must be stopped.

Kudos to Newsom for stepping up and fighting back.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcuE0h_aIAMhVQ3?format=jpg&name=medium)

DeSantis knows his supporters are fine with treating illegal immigrants, even asylum seekers, as sub-human pawns with no dignity, to be toyed with and callously dumped wherever to make the best performative political point. He doesn't care what normal decent people think.

Let's just hope they're not stealing their kids this time.
did Gavin open his mouth when 51 people died in a trailer in San Antonio after being trafficked across the southern border in July , he's a bs merchant of the worst kind and a dangerous fool.
Btw they are gone from Martha's Vineyard already they can put up their yard signs again now .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 16, 2022, 05:33:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 04:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 04:47:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 03:58:09 PM
I was there for 2 days in June

Subway was frightening

People urinating, masturbating and a generally threatening and menacing atmosphere.

I saw a teenager (backed up by a gang of friends) threatening to shoot someone who was minding their own business (guy getting threatened was in front of me going down an escalator with his girlfriend at Grand Central and the other guy was coming up)

Aggressive and obnoxious panhandlers

"A generally threatening and menacing atmosphere"??

And all that in two days worth of subway journeys??

Yes-ever time I travelled on the subway I felt unsafe

I got off the Metro North in Grand Central and when making my way down to the Subway (Red Line 2-I think-goes to Lower Manhattan and WTC) I saw the guy getting threatened with being shot
I have to get the Bart tonight and am not looking forward to it , hopefully I'm still around to report back tomorrow.

I'll get the rosary beads out. It will be touch and go I'm sure!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 07:49:16 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 16, 2022, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 05:13:48 PM
Well, the most recent ridership numbers for the subway are 3.75 million on Wednesday.

The highest since COVID.

I've never seen any gun threats on the subway in close to two decades.

I saw someone (strung out on drugs) masturbating at the side of a street once, but never in the subway and never on any other occasion.

People pissing- don't think I've seen that, but I've seen signs that they do, especially in the Times Sq station. I've also seen people pissing all over the place in Ireland.

Bet he was looking at you ;D The fella jerking off that is ;)

I am quite the dashing fellow.

Or at least used to be. :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 16, 2022, 07:54:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 16, 2022, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 16, 2022, 12:33:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 16, 2022, 05:04:05 AM
Newsom asking the DOJ to charge the right wing extremist governors who have been trafficking people as a political stunt. A busload of them was even dropped off at the Vice President's house. Every time I think "we've surely reached the bottom now," the Rethuglicans manage to plumb the depths even deeper. Where is this going to end? Gas chambers? These fascists must be stopped.

Kudos to Newsom for stepping up and fighting back.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcuE0h_aIAMhVQ3?format=jpg&name=medium)

DeSantis knows his supporters are fine with treating illegal immigrants, even asylum seekers, as sub-human pawns with no dignity, to be toyed with and callously dumped wherever to make the best performative political point. He doesn't care what normal decent people think.

Let's just hope they're not stealing their kids this time.
did Gavin open his mouth when 51 people died in a trailer in San Antonio after being trafficked across the southern border in July , he's a bs merchant of the worst kind and a dangerous fool.
Btw they are gone from Martha's Vineyard already they can put up their yard signs again now .

Newsome may well be a hypocritical gobshite. He's a politician after all.

That doesn't make what DeSantis is playing at any less repugnant.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 16, 2022, 08:50:07 PM
I think J70 only gets exposed to good old fashioned working class Democrats down in the City

Up here in Massachusetts we have the extremely wealthy types-the ones who'd sicken your fvckin hole with all their woke bvllshit.

God forbid a black person or a poor person would come within a mile of them or any one of their family members

They're all for diversity until it shows up on their doorstep

I've shared the story on here before of a very wealthy couple in our town.  A regular working fella inherited his grandmothers house and moved in next door to them. They made his life a living hell with all types of frivolous border disputes. He didn't have the money to lawyer up so he put his house on the market. Guess who bought it and demolished it to enlarge their garden? Yep-the ones next door

They used to have a bumper sticker proclaiming to be the 99%. They currently have one of those signs in their yards that states:

In this House, we believe

Black Lives Matter
Womens rights are Human Rights
No Human is Illegal
Science is Real
Live is Live
Kindness is Everything

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on September 16, 2022, 10:36:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 08:50:07 PM
I think J70 only gets exposed to good old fashioned working class Democrats down in the City

Up here in Massachusetts we have the extremely wealthy types-the ones who'd sicken your fvckin hole with all their woke bvllshit.

God forbid a black person or a poor person would come within a mile of them or any one of their family members

They're all for diversity until it shows up on their doorstep

I've shared the story on here before of a very wealthy couple in our town.  A regular working fella inherited his grandmothers house and moved in next door to them. They made his life a living hell with all types of frivolous border disputes. He didn't have the money to lawyer up so he put his house on the market. Guess who bought it and demolished it to enlarge their garden? Yep-the ones next door

They used to have a bumper sticker proclaiming to be the 99%. They currently have one of those signs in their yards that states:

In this House, we believe

Black Lives Matter
Womens rights are Human Rights
No Human is Illegal
Science is Real
Live is Live
Kindness is Everything

They must be terrible people if they believe in all those things. Imagine living your life by those mottos. Complete low lifes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 16, 2022, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 16, 2022, 10:36:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 08:50:07 PM
I think J70 only gets exposed to good old fashioned working class Democrats down in the City

Up here in Massachusetts we have the extremely wealthy types-the ones who'd sicken your fvckin hole with all their woke bvllshit.

God forbid a black person or a poor person would come within a mile of them or any one of their family members

They're all for diversity until it shows up on their doorstep

I've shared the story on here before of a very wealthy couple in our town.  A regular working fella inherited his grandmothers house and moved in next door to them. They made his life a living hell with all types of frivolous border disputes. He didn't have the money to lawyer up so he put his house on the market. Guess who bought it and demolished it to enlarge their garden? Yep-the ones next door

They used to have a bumper sticker proclaiming to be the 99%. They currently have one of those signs in their yards that states:

In this House, we believe

Black Lives Matter
Womens rights are Human Rights
No Human is Illegal
Science is Real
Live is Live
Kindness is Everything

They must be terrible people if they believe in all those things. Imagine living your life by those mottos. Complete low lifes.
it's a yard sign you see in wealthy neighborhoods it's called virtue signaling. smarten up , the Martha's Vineyard crowd got the national guard to rid them of their immigrants after 24 hours
Expose the fakes and liars at all cost , great work Ron, ps the immigrants wanted to go there and wanted to stay but it's yard signs only for the vineyard no reality please .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 16, 2022, 11:22:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 16, 2022, 10:36:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 08:50:07 PM
I think J70 only gets exposed to good old fashioned working class Democrats down in the City

Up here in Massachusetts we have the extremely wealthy types-the ones who'd sicken your fvckin hole with all their woke bvllshit.

God forbid a black person or a poor person would come within a mile of them or any one of their family members

They're all for diversity until it shows up on their doorstep

I've shared the story on here before of a very wealthy couple in our town.  A regular working fella inherited his grandmothers house and moved in next door to them. They made his life a living hell with all types of frivolous border disputes. He didn't have the money to lawyer up so he put his house on the market. Guess who bought it and demolished it to enlarge their garden? Yep-the ones next door

They used to have a bumper sticker proclaiming to be the 99%. They currently have one of those signs in their yards that states:

In this House, we believe

Black Lives Matter
Womens rights are Human Rights
No Human is Illegal
Science is Real
Live is Live
Kindness is Everything

They must be terrible people if they believe in all those things. Imagine living your life by those mottos. Complete low lifes.

They obviously don't believe them ( or live them)  if their actions toward the neighbor are anything to go by. You see these signs all over the  wealthy  towns and these people would  $hit themselves if a black person or an illegal immigrant came within a mile of them or their kids

It's virtue signaling of the highest order

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 17, 2022, 01:36:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 08:50:07 PM
I think J70 only gets exposed to good old fashioned working class Democrats down in the City

Up here in Massachusetts we have the extremely wealthy types-the ones who'd sicken your fvckin hole with all their woke bvllshit.

God forbid a black person or a poor person would come within a mile of them or any one of their family members

They're all for diversity until it shows up on their doorstep

I've shared the story on here before of a very wealthy couple in our town.  A regular working fella inherited his grandmothers house and moved in next door to them. They made his life a living hell with all types of frivolous border disputes. He didn't have the money to lawyer up so he put his house on the market. Guess who bought it and demolished it to enlarge their garden? Yep-the ones next door

They used to have a bumper sticker proclaiming to be the 99%. They currently have one of those signs in their yards that states:

In this House, we believe

Black Lives Matter
Womens rights are Human Rights
No Human is Illegal
Science is Real
Live is Live
Kindness is Everything

Great, story time from whitey.

Meanwhile, the right are w**king themselves silly as Ron DeSantis sticks it to the libs using Venezuelan asylum seekers as human pawns.

Spread the Christian love baby!

The cruelty is, indeed, the point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 17, 2022, 01:38:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 16, 2022, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 16, 2022, 10:36:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 08:50:07 PM
I think J70 only gets exposed to good old fashioned working class Democrats down in the City

Up here in Massachusetts we have the extremely wealthy types-the ones who'd sicken your fvckin hole with all their woke bvllshit.

God forbid a black person or a poor person would come within a mile of them or any one of their family members

They're all for diversity until it shows up on their doorstep

I've shared the story on here before of a very wealthy couple in our town.  A regular working fella inherited his grandmothers house and moved in next door to them. They made his life a living hell with all types of frivolous border disputes. He didn't have the money to lawyer up so he put his house on the market. Guess who bought it and demolished it to enlarge their garden? Yep-the ones next door

They used to have a bumper sticker proclaiming to be the 99%. They currently have one of those signs in their yards that states:

In this House, we believe

Black Lives Matter
Womens rights are Human Rights
No Human is Illegal
Science is Real
Live is Live
Kindness is Everything

They must be terrible people if they believe in all those things. Imagine living your life by those mottos. Complete low lifes.
it's a yard sign you see in wealthy neighborhoods it's called virtue signaling. smarten up , the Martha's Vineyard crowd got the national guard to rid them of their immigrants after 24 hours
Expose the fakes and liars at all cost , great work Ron, ps the immigrants wanted to go there and wanted to stay but it's yard signs only for the vineyard no reality please .

Really, they "got rid" of them?

As opposed to getting them sorted out with accommodations so they can begin their asylum process in a humane way rather than as a sub-human pawn in the right's sick game?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 17, 2022, 01:43:37 AM
Quote from: lenny on September 16, 2022, 10:36:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 08:50:07 PM
I think J70 only gets exposed to good old fashioned working class Democrats down in the City

Up here in Massachusetts we have the extremely wealthy types-the ones who'd sicken your fvckin hole with all their woke bvllshit.

God forbid a black person or a poor person would come within a mile of them or any one of their family members

They're all for diversity until it shows up on their doorstep

I've shared the story on here before of a very wealthy couple in our town.  A regular working fella inherited his grandmothers house and moved in next door to them. They made his life a living hell with all types of frivolous border disputes. He didn't have the money to lawyer up so he put his house on the market. Guess who bought it and demolished it to enlarge their garden? Yep-the ones next door

They used to have a bumper sticker proclaiming to be the 99%. They currently have one of those signs in their yards that states:

In this House, we believe

Black Lives Matter
Womens rights are Human Rights
No Human is Illegal
Science is Real
Live is Live
Kindness is Everything

They must be terrible people if they believe in all those things. Imagine living your life by those mottos. Complete low lifes.

Indeed. Horrific stuff.

Drive by the many right wing houses in upstate NY and all you see are deluded "Trump won" and "Trump 2024" and even the odd confederate flag.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 17, 2022, 01:49:21 AM
You don't have to go upstate, J70.  Just drive 20-30 miles East through Long Island.  "Biden is Not My President", and the apex of Trumpist wit, "Let's Go Brandon" adorn many of the homes in Nassau County. 

I'd imagine it's worse out in Suffolk.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 17, 2022, 03:39:01 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 17, 2022, 01:49:21 AM
You don't have to go upstate, J70.  Just drive 20-30 miles East through Long Island.  "Biden is Not My President", and the apex of Trumpist wit, "Let's Go Brandon" adorn many of the homes in Nassau County. 

I'd imagine it's worse out in Suffolk.
do you boys need counseling?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 17, 2022, 04:09:26 AM
I had to go to a school board meeting in town a few years ago.  A bunch of clowns were lamenting the lack of diversity in town and how we needed to do this, that and the other to increase diversity

Meanwhile, 2 exits down the highway in either direction you'll find 2 towns with all the diversity one could ever dream of

I'm curious as to why they didn't just buy houses there to raise their families, instead of moving here and then complaining about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 17, 2022, 06:49:52 AM
I even saw a Trump flag atop a big pole outside a house in—are you ready for this—Santa Cruz, California. Where everyone's a surfer, you're addressed as "dude," and Bernie Sanders is considered a saint.

They walk among us. And they have no shame.

I'd expect to find it among the backwoodsmen in the hills, but to see it brazenly displayed in the middle of one of the bluest cities in such a blue state takes some shamelessness.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on September 17, 2022, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 11:22:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 16, 2022, 10:36:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 08:50:07 PM
I think J70 only gets exposed to good old fashioned working class Democrats down in the City

Up here in Massachusetts we have the extremely wealthy types-the ones who'd sicken your fvckin hole with all their woke bvllshit.

God forbid a black person or a poor person would come within a mile of them or any one of their family members

They're all for diversity until it shows up on their doorstep

I've shared the story on here before of a very wealthy couple in our town.  A regular working fella inherited his grandmothers house and moved in next door to them. They made his life a living hell with all types of frivolous border disputes. He didn't have the money to lawyer up so he put his house on the market. Guess who bought it and demolished it to enlarge their garden? Yep-the ones next door

They used to have a bumper sticker proclaiming to be the 99%. They currently have one of those signs in their yards that states:

In this House, we believe

Black Lives Matter
Womens rights are Human Rights
No Human is Illegal
Science is Real
Live is Live
Kindness is Everything

They must be terrible people if they believe in all those things. Imagine living your life by those mottos. Complete low lifes.

They obviously don't believe them ( or live them)  if their actions toward the neighbor are anything to go by. You see these signs all over the  wealthy  towns and these people would  $hit themselves if a black person or an illegal immigrant came within a mile of them or their kids

It's virtue signaling of the highest order

Starting to understand your thinking now. Right wingers are just straight up c*nts, they don't even pretend to be nice and that's why you like them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on September 17, 2022, 08:24:52 AM
Whereas left-wingers are plain dishonest?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 17, 2022, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: lenny on September 17, 2022, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 11:22:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 16, 2022, 10:36:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 16, 2022, 08:50:07 PM
I think J70 only gets exposed to good old fashioned working class Democrats down in the City

Up here in Massachusetts we have the extremely wealthy types-the ones who'd sicken your fvckin hole with all their woke bvllshit.

God forbid a black person or a poor person would come within a mile of them or any one of their family members

They're all for diversity until it shows up on their doorstep

I've shared the story on here before of a very wealthy couple in our town.  A regular working fella inherited his grandmothers house and moved in next door to them. They made his life a living hell with all types of frivolous border disputes. He didn't have the money to lawyer up so he put his house on the market. Guess who bought it and demolished it to enlarge their garden? Yep-the ones next door

They used to have a bumper sticker proclaiming to be the 99%. They currently have one of those signs in their yards that states:

In this House, we believe

Black Lives Matter
Womens rights are Human Rights
No Human is Illegal
Science is Real
Live is Live
Kindness is Everything

They must be terrible people if they believe in all those things. Imagine living your life by those mottos. Complete low lifes.

They obviously don't believe them ( or live them)  if their actions toward the neighbor are anything to go by. You see these signs all over the  wealthy  towns and these people would  $hit themselves if a black person or an illegal immigrant came within a mile of them or their kids

It's virtue signaling of the highest order

Starting to understand your thinking now. Right wingers are just straight up c*nts, they don't even pretend to be nice and that's why you like them.

Who said I like right wingers?

Many of them are as big or bigger cvnts than Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 17, 2022, 02:34:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 17, 2022, 03:39:01 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 17, 2022, 01:49:21 AM
You don't have to go upstate, J70.  Just drive 20-30 miles East through Long Island.  "Biden is Not My President", and the apex of Trumpist wit, "Let's Go Brandon" adorn many of the homes in Nassau County. 

I'd imagine it's worse out in Suffolk.
do you boys need counseling?

Not at all.

We're responding to whitey's story about the "this house" posters.

One side preaches inclusion and acceptance, the other goes full bigoted, anti-democratic, conspiracy theory, "heads we win, tails you lose" tantrum.

No doubt some of those who put up the "this house" posters are NIMBY hypocrites, but at least they're willing to vote and contribute to political and charitable causes that further those aims.

The right doesn't even pretend to care about any of that stuff and doesn't even try to disguise their desire to legislate their religious bigotry, treat illegal immigrants as sub-humans with no dignity, deny the real and present threats to the environment, and gloss over the historical and recent treatment of black people and other minorities.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 17, 2022, 04:03:35 PM
J70

They PREACH it but don't have to live with the consequences-that's my biggest issue

Like your gal pal Mya Wiley-all for defunding the police but lives herself on a street with armed private security

They're against school vouchers for poor kids, but send their own kids to private high schools that cost $70K per year

They're all for taking measures against GOLBAL Warming but god forbid they try to build a wind farm that would interfere with their yachting.

They're for open borders, but funny how next to zero undocumented people end up living in their communities
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 17, 2022, 04:28:41 PM
He survived his trip on the BART then - phew
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 17, 2022, 04:31:40 PM
I get it. People, especially politicians, are often hypocritical.

I'm more concerned about their policy positions/actions and their rhetoric and influence.

Which is why I voted against Mya Wiley (NOT my pal) and for Eric Adams.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 17, 2022, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 17, 2022, 04:28:41 PM
He survived his trip on the BART then - phew
it wasn't running when I needed it police activity on the track at Oakland probably a maga rally or some white supremacists
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 17, 2022, 06:12:39 PM
"Virtue signalling" is one of those right wing newspeak talking points used to denigrate people who have the gall to publicly display their liberal values. A "virtue" is generally considered a positive, but conservatives use it as a pejorative. Kinda like "SJW," the acronymized version of "Social justice warrior," a derogatory term for people who think that social justice is a good thing. The fact that conservatives view "social justice" as a bad thing is self evident in the way they use language.

Goebbels would be proud of them. The conservatives are quite good at weaponizing language and turning positives into negatives, just as Orwell described.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 18, 2022, 10:35:01 PM
What the residents of Martha's Vineyard are doing: Rallying to support the sudden influx of migrants bussed there by human trafficking Rethuglican governors.
What the conservatives are doing: Posting stupid memes about how they "owned the libs" by dumping migrants on them, and unfounded claims that the locals are trying to keep or kick the migrants out.

If the conservatives wanted to really annoy people in blue states, they'd have to move to said blue states themselves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 18, 2022, 10:42:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 18, 2022, 10:35:01 PM
What the residents of Martha's Vineyard are doing: Rallying to support the sudden influx of migrants bussed there by human trafficking Rethuglican governors.
What the conservatives are doing: Posting stupid memes about how they "owned the libs" by dumping migrants on them, and unfounded claims that the locals are trying to keep or kick the migrants out.

If the conservatives wanted to really annoy people in blue states, they'd have to move to said blue states themselves.

Theres video evidence but ok.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2022, 12:23:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 18, 2022, 10:42:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 18, 2022, 10:35:01 PM
What the residents of Martha's Vineyard are doing: Rallying to support the sudden influx of migrants bussed there by human trafficking Rethuglican governors.
What the conservatives are doing: Posting stupid memes about how they "owned the libs" by dumping migrants on them, and unfounded claims that the locals are trying to keep or kick the migrants out.

If the conservatives wanted to really annoy people in blue states, they'd have to move to said blue states themselves.

Theres video evidence but ok.

They're already gone

They were on the island for all of about 36 hours before they were put on a bus and ferried to the mainland, where they're staying at an air force base. Kids getting ready to start school in Bourne tomorrow from what I've been told
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 02:04:31 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 18, 2022, 10:42:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 18, 2022, 10:35:01 PM
What the residents of Martha's Vineyard are doing: Rallying to support the sudden influx of migrants bussed there by human trafficking Rethuglican governors.
What the conservatives are doing: Posting stupid memes about how they "owned the libs" by dumping migrants on them, and unfounded claims that the locals are trying to keep or kick the migrants out.

If the conservatives wanted to really annoy people in blue states, they'd have to move to said blue states themselves.

Theres video evidence but ok.

Such as?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 19, 2022, 02:19:36 AM
Cernovich summed it up perfectly
The migrants came the 80% Biden voters took selfies with them to get the social media points
Next day the military removed them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on September 19, 2022, 03:18:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 19, 2022, 02:19:36 AM
Cernovich summed it up perfectly
The migrants came the 80% Biden voters took selfies with them to get the social media points
Next day the military removed them

This Guy     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cernovich

Wow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 19, 2022, 02:19:36 AM
Cernovich summed it up perfectly
The migrants came the 80% Biden voters took selfies with them to get the social media points
Next day the military removed them

You're quoting Cernovich? Seriously??

That's the kind of lowlife sc**bag you turn to?

Tell us Gmac, what should the people of Martha's Vineyard have done that they didn't do?

Did they take care of the asylum seekers dumped on their doorstep out of the blue?

Did they feed and shelter them?

Were they equipped to house them for and handle their asylum process, to put their kids in school, or was that something better handled as is currently being done?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 12:28:49 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on September 19, 2022, 03:18:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 19, 2022, 02:19:36 AM
Cernovich summed it up perfectly
The migrants came the 80% Biden voters took selfies with them to get the social media points
Next day the military removed them

This Guy     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cernovich

Wow

Nice lad, hey.

I did learn a new word reading that.

I'd never heard of "manosphere" before.

f**k me these people are such f**king losers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2022, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 19, 2022, 02:19:36 AM
Cernovich summed it up perfectly
The migrants came the 80% Biden voters took selfies with them to get the social media points
Next day the military removed them

You're quoting Cernovich? Seriously??

That's the kind of lowlife sc**bag you turn to?

Tell us Gmac, what should the people of Martha's Vineyard have done that they didn't do?

Did they take care of the asylum seekers dumped on their doorstep out of the blue?

Did they feed and shelter them?

Were they equipped to house them for and handle their asylum process, to put their kids in school, or was that something better handled as is currently being done?

J70

The people of the Vineyard elect and fund politicians who believe in open borders

They declare themselves a sanctuary community

They put sign in their yards declaring that migrants are welcome and no person is illegal

Yet when the problem lands on their door they have no answer

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 02:35:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 19, 2022, 02:19:36 AM
Cernovich summed it up perfectly
The migrants came the 80% Biden voters took selfies with them to get the social media points
Next day the military removed them

You're quoting Cernovich? Seriously??

That's the kind of lowlife sc**bag you turn to?

Tell us Gmac, what should the people of Martha's Vineyard have done that they didn't do?

Did they take care of the asylum seekers dumped on their doorstep out of the blue?

Did they feed and shelter them?

Were they equipped to house them for and handle their asylum process, to put their kids in school, or was that something better handled as is currently being done?

J70

The people of the Vineyard elect and fund politicians who believe in open borders

They declare themselves a sanctuary community

They put sign in their yards declaring that migrants are welcome and no person is illegal

Yet when the problem lands on their door they have no answer

So they should have been prepared, beds and school desks at the ready, to provide long term care dozens and dozens of asylum seekers dropped on their doorsteps with zero notice??

Right.

Seems to me they and the state of Massachusetts (led by a GOP governor who is a decent human being) did just fine under the circumstances.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2022, 02:46:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 02:35:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 19, 2022, 02:19:36 AM
Cernovich summed it up perfectly
The migrants came the 80% Biden voters took selfies with them to get the social media points
Next day the military removed them

You're quoting Cernovich? Seriously??

That's the kind of lowlife sc**bag you turn to?

Tell us Gmac, what should the people of Martha's Vineyard have done that they didn't do?

Did they take care of the asylum seekers dumped on their doorstep out of the blue?

Did they feed and shelter them?

Were they equipped to house them for and handle their asylum process, to put their kids in school, or was that something better handled as is currently being done?

J70

The people of the Vineyard elect and fund politicians who believe in open borders

They declare themselves a sanctuary community

They put sign in their yards declaring that migrants are welcome and no person is illegal

Yet when the problem lands on their door they have no answer

So they should have been prepared, beds and school desks at the ready, to provide long term care dozens and dozens of asylum seekers dropped on their doorsteps with zero notice??

Right.

Seems to me they and the state of Massachusetts (led by a GOP governor who is a decent human being) did just fine under the circumstances.

I guess my point (which either you're missing or I'm not properly articulating) is that it's very easy to support policies that don't impact you.

Do you think the towns in TX and AZ have the infrastructure to deal with the thousands of people poring in every day?  They don't-but geographically they're screwed and have no choice but to deal with it

What would the good people of MV do there were thousands of people sleeping rough on their streets and defecating on their manicured lawns. I'd say a solution would be found pretty quickly
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 03:10:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 02:46:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 02:35:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 19, 2022, 02:19:36 AM
Cernovich summed it up perfectly
The migrants came the 80% Biden voters took selfies with them to get the social media points
Next day the military removed them

You're quoting Cernovich? Seriously??

That's the kind of lowlife sc**bag you turn to?

Tell us Gmac, what should the people of Martha's Vineyard have done that they didn't do?

Did they take care of the asylum seekers dumped on their doorstep out of the blue?

Did they feed and shelter them?

Were they equipped to house them for and handle their asylum process, to put their kids in school, or was that something better handled as is currently being done?

J70

The people of the Vineyard elect and fund politicians who believe in open borders

They declare themselves a sanctuary community

They put sign in their yards declaring that migrants are welcome and no person is illegal

Yet when the problem lands on their door they have no answer

So they should have been prepared, beds and school desks at the ready, to provide long term care dozens and dozens of asylum seekers dropped on their doorsteps with zero notice??

Right.

Seems to me they and the state of Massachusetts (led by a GOP governor who is a decent human being) did just fine under the circumstances.

I guess my point (which either you're missing or I'm not properly articulating) is that it's very easy to support policies that don't impact you.

Do you think the towns in TX and AZ have the infrastructure to deal with the thousands of people poring in every day?  They don't-but geographically they're screwed and have no choice but to deal with it

What would the good people of MV do there were thousands of people sleeping rough on their streets and defecating on their manicured lawns. I'd say a solution would be found pretty quickly

EVERYONE votes on (for or against) stuff that doesn't directly affect them.

Stem cell research. Coincidence that Nancy Reagan came out in support of the promise of it when her husband fell victim to severe Alzheimers?

Various GOP politicians who've vociferously opposed gay rights until it came to their own doorstep in the form of a gay son or daughter and they saw that actual real human beings are affected by this rhetoric and legislating? Rob Portman (a bleeding heard liberal these days in the GOP) comes to mind.

I have no issue with border state politicians raising issues about the border and providing valid and genuine criticism of what the feds should or shouldn't be doing. If the feds need to set up more infrastructure at the border, then make that point. Its not like they don't have an entire media industry there to help them scream about it.

Political stunts set up purely to boost their election campaigns and involving the abuse of asylum-seeking human beings are cruel and irresponsible and serve no one except their own, personal selfish interests.

If they really gave a f**k about these people as human beings and legitimately wanted the help of these cities and states, they'd be working with them and, at the very least, giving them a bit of notice to prepare. Not callously using them as vote-seeking props.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2022, 03:19:53 PM
Stop changing the subject

Kamala and Joes border policies have been an unmitigated disaster and they're doing nothing to fix it

The Republicans are dead right to bring it to their doorsteps

If they (Democrats) and their supporters (and their donors)  have to deal with it first hand, maybe they'll actually do something about it apart from putting a stupid sign in their front yard


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 03:19:53 PM
Stop changing the subject

Kamala and Joes border policies have been an unmitigated disaster and they're doing nothing to fix it

The Republicans are dead right to bring it to their doorsteps

If they (Democrats) and their supporters (and their donors)  have to deal with it first hand, maybe they'll actually do something about it apart from putting a stupid sign in their front yard

How am I changing the subject?

You said "I guess my point (which either you're missing or I'm not properly articulating) is that it's very easy to support policies that don't impact you."

I pointed out that everyone does this.

I could continue by pointing out how various GOP policies which don't affect them directly could be visited upon THEIR doorsteps. Should we start with environmental or worker protections?

I guess you at least have the balls to admit you support DeSantis and his callous actions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2022, 04:10:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 03:19:53 PM
Stop changing the subject

Kamala and Joes border policies have been an unmitigated disaster and they're doing nothing to fix it

The Republicans are dead right to bring it to their doorsteps

If they (Democrats) and their supporters (and their donors)  have to deal with it first hand, maybe they'll actually do something about it apart from putting a stupid sign in their front yard

How am I changing the subject?

You said "I guess my point (which either you're missing or I'm not properly articulating) is that it's very easy to support policies that don't impact you."

I pointed out that everyone does this.

I could continue by pointing out how various GOP policies which don't affect them directly could be visited upon THEIR doorsteps. Should we start with environmental or worker protections?

I guess you at least have the balls to admit you support DeSantis and his callous actions.

We're discussing a current immigration crisis and you start bringing up Nancy fvckin Regans views on stem research from 40 years ago.

Stick to the topic at hand!

(Yes-every politician should have to live with the repercussions of their policies. Nothing became more apparent than people voting for a war, they didn't have to fight)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 19, 2022, 04:39:53 PM
Mv residents should have opened up up their homes to the immigrants as the sign says no human is illegal then they should have done the following
Anyone of  school age should have been put in public school and classes taught in Spanish irrespective of how that affects other students.
Give drivers licenses to all of them .
Send them to local hospitals for health care check ups . Citizens take a back seat for a while.
Let them set up drink , clothes and snack sidewalk businesses without permits or permission preferably in front of the nicest properties.
Anyone who can do construction set up businesses without licenses and undercut local contractors , also don't worry about any insurance would be racist to ask 
Pay zero taxes 
If it's ok for my city in California to do that with a fraction of the income or resources why can't mv ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 19, 2022, 06:16:18 PM
the irony of whitey complaining about someone not talking about the current news story when he's still crying about the Steele Dossier from 7 years ago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2022, 06:45:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 19, 2022, 06:16:18 PM
the irony of whitey complaining about someone not talking about the current news story when he's still crying about the Steele Dossier from 7 years ago


LOL-you haven't a clue

There's a special counsel investigation currently going on into the Steele Dossier. That's far from old news.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 07:27:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 04:10:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 03:19:53 PM
Stop changing the subject

Kamala and Joes border policies have been an unmitigated disaster and they're doing nothing to fix it

The Republicans are dead right to bring it to their doorsteps

If they (Democrats) and their supporters (and their donors)  have to deal with it first hand, maybe they'll actually do something about it apart from putting a stupid sign in their front yard

How am I changing the subject?

You said "I guess my point (which either you're missing or I'm not properly articulating) is that it's very easy to support policies that don't impact you."

I pointed out that everyone does this.

I could continue by pointing out how various GOP policies which don't affect them directly could be visited upon THEIR doorsteps. Should we start with environmental or worker protections?

I guess you at least have the balls to admit you support DeSantis and his callous actions.

We're discussing a current immigration crisis and you start bringing up Nancy fvckin Regans views on stem research from 40 years ago.

Stick to the topic at hand!

(Yes-every politician should have to live with the repercussions of their policies. Nothing became more apparent than people voting for a war, they didn't have to fight)

The topic you introduced was people voting and exerting influence on issues that don't directly affect them.

If you didn't want to open that discussion, then why mention it? You mentioned it so you could have a go at the residents of Martha's Vineyard.

You could have left it at you think the Biden admin's policies on immigration are terrible.

And then told us what you would be doing differently.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 07:35:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 06:45:51 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 19, 2022, 06:16:18 PM
the irony of whitey complaining about someone not talking about the current news story when he's still crying about the Steele Dossier from 7 years ago


LOL-you haven't a clue

There's a special counsel investigation currently going on into the Steele Dossier. That's far from old news.

How long has Durham been investigating now?

The only thing that investigation has going for Trump is that it is still going.

That it's taking place is far more valuable to Trump than any results it has produced or likely will produce.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2022, 08:04:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 07:27:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 04:10:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 03:19:53 PM
Stop changing the subject

Kamala and Joes border policies have been an unmitigated disaster and they're doing nothing to fix it

The Republicans are dead right to bring it to their doorsteps

If they (Democrats) and their supporters (and their donors)  have to deal with it first hand, maybe they'll actually do something about it apart from putting a stupid sign in their front yard

How am I changing the subject?

You said "I guess my point (which either you're missing or I'm not properly articulating) is that it's very easy to support policies that don't impact you."

I pointed out that everyone does this.

I could continue by pointing out how various GOP policies which don't affect them directly could be visited upon THEIR doorsteps. Should we start with environmental or worker protections?

I guess you at least have the balls to admit you support DeSantis and his callous actions.

We're discussing a current immigration crisis and you start bringing up Nancy fvckin Regans views on stem research from 40 years ago.

Stick to the topic at hand!

(Yes-every politician should have to live with the repercussions of their policies. Nothing became more apparent than people voting for a war, they didn't have to fight)

The topic you introduced was people voting and exerting influence on issues that don't directly affect them.

If you didn't want to open that discussion, then why mention it? You mentioned it so you could have a go at the residents of Martha's Vineyard.

You could have left it at you think the Biden admin's policies on immigration are terrible.

And then told us what you would be doing differently.

But when it did effect them directly, like it did  last week, they failed the test miserably

I'm not having a go at them-I'm simply stating facts

They overwhelmingly vote Democrat and donate to Democrats who believe in open borders.

They have declared themselves a sanctuary city

They put signs out in their yards welcoming emigrants

Why then would they ship those poor people off the island to a military base within a day or so of them arriving?


And yes, Republican and Democratic voters and donors should absolutely have to live with the consequences of the actions of the people they support-on climate and war and regulation

But right now we're discussing a border crisis that has been created by the current administration


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 08:21:13 PM
How can you say they failed a test when there was never any reason to have ever prepared for it? That makes zero sense. Under the circumstances, moving them to a facility that could handle them in a humane way was the correct thing to do. They're a small island off the coast, not a major city.

Eric Adams said over the weekend that he had attempted to get cooperation from Abbott on a coordinated response to share the burden of the influx from Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua, but he was basically told to go f**k himself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 19, 2022, 08:22:42 PM
Also, what does "open borders" mean?

Is that anything short of stealing kids and building a giant wall?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2022, 09:44:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 08:21:13 PM
How can you say they failed a test when there was never any reason to have ever prepared for it? That makes zero sense. Under the circumstances, moving them to a facility that could handle them in a humane way was the correct thing to do. They're a small island off the coast, not a major city.

Eric Adams said over the weekend that he had attempted to get cooperation from Abbott on a coordinated response to share the burden of the influx from Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua, but he was basically told to go f**k himself.


Unfortunately Eric Adam's doesn't set National Immigration Policy so what would a Republican Governor have to gain by even speaking to him on the matter

Maybe Eric should have called Kamala instead....she's doing such a great job since being appointed to the role by Joe. I'd say she would have been very helpful
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2022, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 08:22:42 PM
Also, what does "open borders" mean?

Is that anything short of stealing kids and building a giant wall?
"Open borders" is a trigger phrase used by conservatives to scare people, conjuring up images of terrorists and rapists roaming freely into the country without restriction. They hope that the phrase will trigger the same racist response that it elicits in themselves.

What the conservatives don't realise is that "open borders" describes the relationship that's existed on the island of Ireland for as long as I can remember, and in much of the EU (in the Schengen zone) since about 1992. It also describes the way the entire world used to be, including the United States until relatively recently in its history. The Pilgrim Fathers certainly didn't have all their paperwork filed with the Department of Homeland Security. The modern day confederate fanboys certainly don't have a problem with the way African slaves were hauled across the Atlantic with no paperwork other than their listings as cargo on the ships' manifests. 

Up to the early twentieth century there wasn't a whole lot to stop anyone from getting into the US. A lot of the people scaremongering about "open borders" now are the descendents of people who came in during the open borders era.

In any case the idea that a nation must manage and approve every single person that enters its territory is a relatively recent one, and it's often presented as an axiom. I've yet to hear a convincing argument for why governments should artificially, laboriously, and expensively micromanage exactly who gets into the country. The market does a much better job of that. People tend to go where the opportunities are and away from where the opportunities aren't. They go to where their labour is needed. That's why the open borders of the EU have been such a success, allowing free movement of labour as well as capital. NAFTA allowed free movement of capital without the free movement of labour, but the demand for labour is still there and is filled by undocumented immigration. Such a stupid system.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 19, 2022, 11:52:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 19, 2022, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 08:22:42 PM
Also, what does "open borders" mean?

Is that anything short of stealing kids and building a giant wall?
"Open borders" is a trigger phrase used by conservatives to scare people, conjuring up images of terrorists and rapists roaming freely into the country without restriction. They hope that the phrase will trigger the same racist response that it elicits in themselves.

What the conservatives don't realise is that "open borders" describes the relationship that's existed on the island of Ireland for as long as I can remember, and in much of the EU (in the Schengen zone) since about 1992. It also describes the way the entire world used to be, including the United States until relatively recently in its history. The Pilgrim Fathers certainly didn't have all their paperwork filed with the Department of Homeland Security. The modern day confederate fanboys certainly don't have a problem with the way African slaves were hauled across the Atlantic with no paperwork other than their listings as cargo on the ships' manifests. 

Up to the early twentieth century there wasn't a whole lot to stop anyone from getting into the US. A lot of the people scaremongering about "open borders" now are the descendents of people who came in during the open borders era.

In any case the idea that a nation must manage and approve every single person that enters its territory is a relatively recent one, and it's often presented as an axiom. I've yet to hear a convincing argument for why governments should artificially, laboriously, and expensively micromanage exactly who gets into the country. The market does a much better job of that. People tend to go where the opportunities are and away from where the opportunities aren't. They go to where their labour is needed. That's why the open borders of the EU have been such a success, allowing free movement of labour as well as capital. NAFTA allowed free movement of capital without the free movement of labour, but the demand for labour is still there and is filled by undocumented immigration. Such a stupid system.

LOL

I take it you hadn't heard about this case-

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/virginia/fairfax-co-trail-attack-suspect-was-in-the-us-illegally-authorities-say/65-03645a69-ec99-4791-9be5-9b296774e8b2

https://wjla.com/amp/news/local/juan-alfaro-rodriguez-herndon-washington-old-dominion-trai-suspect-man-fairfax-county-police-linked-more-cases-wod-arrested-charged-tracked-down-warrants-woman-assault-indecent-exposure-incident-evidence-investigation

So if I understand correctly New York authorities would have been prevented from handing this guy over to ICE if they caught him.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2022, 12:54:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 09:44:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 08:21:13 PM
How can you say they failed a test when there was never any reason to have ever prepared for it? That makes zero sense. Under the circumstances, moving them to a facility that could handle them in a humane way was the correct thing to do. They're a small island off the coast, not a major city.

Eric Adams said over the weekend that he had attempted to get cooperation from Abbott on a coordinated response to share the burden of the influx from Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua, but he was basically told to go f**k himself.


Unfortunately Eric Adam's doesn't set National Immigration Policy so what would a Republican Governor have to gain by even speaking to him on the matter

Maybe Eric should have called Kamala instead....she's doing such a great job since being appointed to the role by Joe. I'd say she would have been very helpful

So a Republican governor has nothing to gain by speaking to the mayor to whose city he is sending busload after busload of people with no advance notice?

I see.

Like it's said, the cruelty is the point. They're not human beings to these people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 20, 2022, 01:19:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 12:54:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 19, 2022, 09:44:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2022, 08:21:13 PM
How can you say they failed a test when there was never any reason to have ever prepared for it? That makes zero sense. Under the circumstances, moving them to a facility that could handle them in a humane way was the correct thing to do. They're a small island off the coast, not a major city.

Eric Adams said over the weekend that he had attempted to get cooperation from Abbott on a coordinated response to share the burden of the influx from Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua, but he was basically told to go f**k himself.


Unfortunately Eric Adam's doesn't set National Immigration Policy so what would a Republican Governor have to gain by even speaking to him on the matter

Maybe Eric should have called Kamala instead....she's doing such a great job since being appointed to the role by Joe. I'd say she would have been very helpful

So a Republican governor has nothing to gain by speaking to the mayor to whose city he is sending busload after busload of people with no advance notice?

I see.

Like it's said, the cruelty is the point. They're not human beings to these people.

I did use the word "unfortunately" because, yes,  two adults should be able to work together to find a solution

In this scenario however, the 2 individuals involved, have other forces to contend with.

Abbott has to deal with the GOP who love that he's doing this and want him to continue

Adams hands are tied by NYCs sanctuary city status and he can't be seen by his party to do anything to diminish that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2022, 01:44:18 AM
Disagree on Adams. There is nothing controversial about his working on humane solutions for asylum seekers with Republicans. There is no reason why he can't do so while maintaining the sensible elements of sanctuary city status. And he wasn't elected as a progressive, even if NYC progressives did have an issue with him making such moves (which they'd have no reason to).

I read an editorial earlier by Melissa DeRosa, Cuomo's former right hand woman. She was scathing of Biden's performance on this year's influx, how they're failing to deal adequately with it and reckons they need to put a centralized processing system in place and attack it with resources like they did when the unaccompanied minors influx occurred.

She had nothing but contempt for the GOP's actions on this, mind you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 20, 2022, 02:03:40 AM
I actually like Adam's, but Republicans won't work with him or any other Democratic Mayor for that matter

They're like a bunch of fvckin schoolyard bullies (the Republicans), and right now the other bullies are cheering them on

Joe and Kamala are 100% to blame for this mess and from what I can tell have done absolutely nothing to fix the problem. So while I don't agree with using these unfortunates as pawns, the Democrats only have themselves to blame
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2022, 06:28:36 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305663003_10106269724653437_8892048952240640599_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=n7y_kPGzJUAAX-hVUPL&tn=xNb5rpJqnYq6E3Bm&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9IVeJtiSR8nV_ohrTtNq52sqG3oYx0a-UOlCYOPJIddA&oe=632DC356)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on September 20, 2022, 03:09:28 PM
Open borders not a bad thing at all ??, We need labor in the Construction industry at least here in Texas . I would say building sites here  are now  90% Hispanic be it plumbers Electricians Carpenters  (illegals and their children) . Generally  Young   Americans ,Irish, English , dont seem to want to do this type  of work no more , Just Like the Irish did back in the day in England and the Usa ,  The Mexicans   are filling the void today , . I came here 28 years ago , there was a sprinkling (not many)of Irish  and English in the trades back then . All the young ex pats  coming  today are in IT or sales . Generally One thing hasn't changed they all get married quickly  hmm  Green cards ? ""Done it they right way"" a guy once told me , But we are not suppose to talk about it . The immigration process is a fkin joke , De Santas Abbots dont care a fig really, they just use the issue to please their base and more importantly their sponsors.  I dont  believe  Bidden cares much either , Ffs He being in office for 50 years,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3PTuADIHQ

I put this up before and funny enough nobody responded ?     ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2022, 05:09:43 PM
I know a lad with a painting business who says he can get a handful of boys from Guatemala to do the work a lot easier than he can get Irish kids, and they'll work a lot harder and complain a lot less. Irish immigrants to the states now are a lot more white collar than they used to be, which is no bad thing. Eventually the Latinos will get their turn too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration

Are they flying them around under false pretenses? Leaving them stranded with no support for their asylum processes. Doing what Texas has been doing to some of those they dump in NY and just listing their addresses with the immigration agencies as that of the NY Catholic Charities office, who then get paperwork and court documents for people they've had no encounter with?

Is the apprehension of two million people attempting to cross a sign of an insecure border?

What are the estimates for how many get through undetected?

There are twice as many border patrol officers as there were 20 years ago (it peaked under Obama). Throw in all the tech such as drones and cameras that they didn't possess back then too.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:36:26 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on September 20, 2022, 03:09:28 PM
Open borders not a bad thing at all ??, We need labor in the Construction industry at least here in Texas . I would say building sites here  are now  90% Hispanic be it plumbers Electricians Carpenters  (illegals and their children) . Generally  Young   Americans ,Irish, English , dont seem to want to do this type  of work no more , Just Like the Irish did back in the day in England and the Usa ,  The Mexicans   are filling the void today , . I came here 28 years ago , there was a sprinkling (not many)of Irish  and English in the trades back then . All the young ex pats  coming  today are in IT or sales . Generally One thing hasn't changed they all get married quickly  hmm  Green cards ? ""Done it they right way"" a guy once told me , But we are not suppose to talk about it . The immigration process is a fkin joke , De Santas Abbots dont care a fig really, they just use the issue to please their base and more importantly their sponsors.  I dont  believe  Bidden cares much either , Ffs He being in office for 50 years,%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3PTuADIHQ

I put this up before and funny enough nobody responded ?     ;)

I watched some of it.

I guarantee you all those screaming about Hunter Biden selling influence and George Soros funding left wing causes don't bat an eyelid at obscure right wing billionaires providing 95% of the funding for candidates like that to do their bidding.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 20, 2022, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration

Are they flying them around under false pretenses? Leaving them stranded with no support for their asylum processes. Doing what Texas has been doing to some of those they dump in NY and just listing their addresses with the immigration agencies as that of the NY Catholic Charities office, who then get paperwork and court documents for people they've had no encounter with?

Is the apprehension of two million people attempting to cross a sign of an insecure border?

What are the estimates for how many get through undetected?

There are twice as many border patrol officers as there were 20 years ago (it peaked under Obama). Throw in all the tech such as drones and cameras that they didn't possess back then too.

I guess it depends on your definition of "false pretenses"

Seemingly these people were living on the street when they were approached without even a roof over their head

They were (supposedly) offered an opportunity to relocate to a wealthy town in a sanctuary state that has significantly greater resources that what was available to them in Texas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2022, 09:29:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 20, 2022, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration

Are they flying them around under false pretenses? Leaving them stranded with no support for their asylum processes. Doing what Texas has been doing to some of those they dump in NY and just listing their addresses with the immigration agencies as that of the NY Catholic Charities office, who then get paperwork and court documents for people they've had no encounter with?

Is the apprehension of two million people attempting to cross a sign of an insecure border?

What are the estimates for how many get through undetected?

There are twice as many border patrol officers as there were 20 years ago (it peaked under Obama). Throw in all the tech such as drones and cameras that they didn't possess back then too.

I guess it depends on your definition of "false pretenses"

Seemingly these people were living on the street when they were approached without even a roof over their head

They were (supposedly) offered an opportunity to relocate to a wealthy town in a sanctuary state that has significantly greater resources that what was available to them in Texas

It is being reported that to get them to agree they were promised the relatively generous benefits that are only available to already-approved refugees (which they are nowhere near being), and also that they were told they were going to Boston.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 09:46:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration

Are they flying them around under false pretenses? Leaving them stranded with no support for their asylum processes. Doing what Texas has been doing to some of those they dump in NY and just listing their addresses with the immigration agencies as that of the NY Catholic Charities office, who then get paperwork and court documents for people they've had no encounter with?

Is the apprehension of two million people attempting to cross a sign of an insecure border?

What are the estimates for how many get through undetected?

There are twice as many border patrol officers as there were 20 years ago (it peaked under Obama). Throw in all the tech such as drones and cameras that they didn't possess back then too.
they surrender at border not apprehended  and the reason they do that is because they are released and given a court date which very few show up for , the reason there are more border patrol agents is for processing millions of immigrants not for protecting the border and would make sense it peaked under  Obama administration . I'm sure the same number or more get through undetected , so for this year over 1% of current population would be illegal entries to the USA oh my
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 20, 2022, 10:54:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 09:29:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 20, 2022, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration

Are they flying them around under false pretenses? Leaving them stranded with no support for their asylum processes. Doing what Texas has been doing to some of those they dump in NY and just listing their addresses with the immigration agencies as that of the NY Catholic Charities office, who then get paperwork and court documents for people they've had no encounter with?

Is the apprehension of two million people attempting to cross a sign of an insecure border?

What are the estimates for how many get through undetected?

There are twice as many border patrol officers as there were 20 years ago (it peaked under Obama). Throw in all the tech such as drones and cameras that they didn't possess back then too.

I guess it depends on your definition of "false pretenses"

Seemingly these people were living on the street when they were approached without even a roof over their head

They were (supposedly) offered an opportunity to relocate to a wealthy town in a sanctuary state that has significantly greater resources that what was available to them in Texas

It is being reported that to get them to agree they were promised the relatively generous benefits that are only available to already-approved refugees (which they are nowhere near being), and also that they were told they were going to Boston.

Ive no doubt they were misled, but from everything I've read, they are in a much better situation today than what they were in below in Texas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 21, 2022, 02:59:07 AM
The immune are suing Desantis ffs you couldn't make it up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 21, 2022, 03:30:07 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2022, 02:59:07 AM
The immune are suing Desantis ffs you couldn't make it up
immigrants that  should read , immune to the law and Covid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2022, 12:54:52 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 20, 2022, 10:54:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 09:29:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 20, 2022, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration

Are they flying them around under false pretenses? Leaving them stranded with no support for their asylum processes. Doing what Texas has been doing to some of those they dump in NY and just listing their addresses with the immigration agencies as that of the NY Catholic Charities office, who then get paperwork and court documents for people they've had no encounter with?

Is the apprehension of two million people attempting to cross a sign of an insecure border?

What are the estimates for how many get through undetected?

There are twice as many border patrol officers as there were 20 years ago (it peaked under Obama). Throw in all the tech such as drones and cameras that they didn't possess back then too.

I guess it depends on your definition of "false pretenses"

Seemingly these people were living on the street when they were approached without even a roof over their head

They were (supposedly) offered an opportunity to relocate to a wealthy town in a sanctuary state that has significantly greater resources that what was available to them in Texas

It is being reported that to get them to agree they were promised the relatively generous benefits that are only available to already-approved refugees (which they are nowhere near being), and also that they were told they were going to Boston.

Ive no doubt they were misled, but from everything I've read, they are in a much better situation today than what they were in below in Texas

Fair enough, but that doesn't excuse their abuse of these people for a political stunt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2022, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 09:46:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration

Are they flying them around under false pretenses? Leaving them stranded with no support for their asylum processes. Doing what Texas has been doing to some of those they dump in NY and just listing their addresses with the immigration agencies as that of the NY Catholic Charities office, who then get paperwork and court documents for people they've had no encounter with?

Is the apprehension of two million people attempting to cross a sign of an insecure border?

What are the estimates for how many get through undetected?

There are twice as many border patrol officers as there were 20 years ago (it peaked under Obama). Throw in all the tech such as drones and cameras that they didn't possess back then too.
they surrender at border not apprehended  and the reason they do that is because they are released and given a court date which very few show up for , the reason there are more border patrol agents is for processing millions of immigrants not for protecting the border and would make sense it peaked under  Obama administration . I'm sure the same number or more get through undetected , so for this year over 1% of current population would be illegal entries to the USA oh my

What are the stats on the numbers who show up for the court dates? You've made the claim before that most of them don't show up and, from I recall, were not able to back it up. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for number of undetected entries, CBP data in this American Immigration Council report does not reflect your contention:

(https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/resize/styles/panopoly_image_original/public/wysiwyg_uploads/american_immigration_council/rising_border_encounters_in_2021_figure_1_9-882x427.png?itok=09QuTtHv)

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/rising-border-encounters-in-2021 (https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/rising-border-encounters-in-2021)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 21, 2022, 03:52:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2022, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 09:46:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration

Are they flying them around under false pretenses? Leaving them stranded with no support for their asylum processes. Doing what Texas has been doing to some of those they dump in NY and just listing their addresses with the immigration agencies as that of the NY Catholic Charities office, who then get paperwork and court documents for people they've had no encounter with?

Is the apprehension of two million people attempting to cross a sign of an insecure border?

What are the estimates for how many get through undetected?

There are twice as many border patrol officers as there were 20 years ago (it peaked under Obama). Throw in all the tech such as drones and cameras that they didn't possess back then too.
they surrender at border not apprehended  and the reason they do that is because they are released and given a court date which very few show up for , the reason there are more border patrol agents is for processing millions of immigrants not for protecting the border and would make sense it peaked under  Obama administration . I'm sure the same number or more get through undetected , so for this year over 1% of current population would be illegal entries to the USA oh my

What are the stats on the numbers who show up for the court dates? You've made the claim before that most of them don't show up and, from I recall, were not able to back it up. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for number of undetected entries, CBP data in this American Immigration Council report does not reflect your contention:

(https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/resize/styles/panopoly_image_original/public/wysiwyg_uploads/american_immigration_council/rising_border_encounters_in_2021_figure_1_9-882x427.png?itok=09QuTtHv)

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/rising-border-encounters-in-2021 (https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/rising-border-encounters-in-2021)
there's more than one hearing for each case , when the writing is on the wall that they will be deported no one shows up for final hearing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2022, 04:36:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2022, 03:52:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 21, 2022, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 09:46:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 20, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Biden administration has flown 450k immigrants all over the country is that human trafficking?
2 Million known border crossings this year not including getaways yet Kamala goes on tv and says the border is secure holding back laughter, a joke of an administration

Are they flying them around under false pretenses? Leaving them stranded with no support for their asylum processes. Doing what Texas has been doing to some of those they dump in NY and just listing their addresses with the immigration agencies as that of the NY Catholic Charities office, who then get paperwork and court documents for people they've had no encounter with?

Is the apprehension of two million people attempting to cross a sign of an insecure border?

What are the estimates for how many get through undetected?

There are twice as many border patrol officers as there were 20 years ago (it peaked under Obama). Throw in all the tech such as drones and cameras that they didn't possess back then too.
they surrender at border not apprehended  and the reason they do that is because they are released and given a court date which very few show up for , the reason there are more border patrol agents is for processing millions of immigrants not for protecting the border and would make sense it peaked under  Obama administration . I'm sure the same number or more get through undetected , so for this year over 1% of current population would be illegal entries to the USA oh my

What are the stats on the numbers who show up for the court dates? You've made the claim before that most of them don't show up and, from I recall, were not able to back it up. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for number of undetected entries, CBP data in this American Immigration Council report does not reflect your contention:

(https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/resize/styles/panopoly_image_original/public/wysiwyg_uploads/american_immigration_council/rising_border_encounters_in_2021_figure_1_9-882x427.png?itok=09QuTtHv)

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/rising-border-encounters-in-2021 (https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/rising-border-encounters-in-2021)
there's more than one hearing for each case , when the writing is on the wall that they will be deported no one shows up for final hearing.

So that is "most of them"? Do you have a source?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 21, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
I'll leave it to the legal minds but this NY AG press conference doesn't seem good for the ex-President
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 21, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 21, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
I'll leave it to the legal minds but this NY AG press conference doesn't seem good for the ex-President
Initial thoughts

Real estate guys inflating property values for lending purposes and deflating them for tax purposes-it's been happening since the Stone Age

How many other real estate developers are currently being investigated for similar "crimes" or is Trump the only one?

These financial institutions have experts-highly educated, highly paid and experienced-who determine what the valuations are. They don't just take Trumps word for what a building or property is worth.

I think the tax aspect is probably more worrisome but if people are thinking this will finish him off-I wouldn't hold my breath
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2022, 07:09:44 PM
Of course it won't finish him. If it absolutely comes down to it, someone else will take the fall, like every time before.

Have to laugh at the other issue though - his lawyers STILL won't say in court whether or not he REALLY declassified the documents, even after they got their bullshit special master. The special master ( a real actual qualified judge this time) told them to put up or shut up.

A bit like all the corrosive, made-up nonsense he spewed in the aftermath (and to this day) on the election. None of it ended up before a judge.

Then you might actually be legally accountable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on September 21, 2022, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 21, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
I'll leave it to the legal minds but this NY AG press conference doesn't seem good for the ex-President
Initial thoughts

Real estate guys inflating property values for lending purposes and deflating them for tax purposes-it's been happening since the Stone Age

How many other real estate developers are currently being investigated for similar "crimes" or is Trump the only one?

These financial institutions have experts-highly educated, highly paid and experienced-who determine what the valuations are. They don't just take Trumps word for what a building or property is worth.

I think the tax aspect is probably more worrisome but if people are thinking this will finish him off-I wouldn't hold my breath

Will trump go down the same way as Al Capone, another American criminal who was eventually imprisoned for tax evasion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 21, 2022, 09:09:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 21, 2022, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 21, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
I'll leave it to the legal minds but this NY AG press conference doesn't seem good for the ex-President
Initial thoughts

Real estate guys inflating property values for lending purposes and deflating them for tax purposes-it's been happening since the Stone Age

How many other real estate developers are currently being investigated for similar "crimes" or is Trump the only one?

These financial institutions have experts-highly educated, highly paid and experienced-who determine what the valuations are. They don't just take Trumps word for what a building or property is worth.

I think the tax aspect is probably more worrisome but if people are thinking this will finish him off-I wouldn't hold my breath

Will trump go down the same way as Al Capone, another American criminal who was eventually imprisoned for tax evasion.

I think so. They'll nail him for something eventually.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 21, 2022, 09:13:31 PM
Another smoke screen on the same day  Interest rate goes up another. .75 %
Inflation at 40 year high
Gas prices at an all time high
Not enough electricity to keep grids functional
Border crossings at an all time high as Venezuela empties its prisons and sends them to the border as Cuba did in the seventies.
A senile man,  a puppet to extremists as president.
Fbi a personal gestapo for senile man and the puppet master extremists.
Illegal immigrants suing governors.
Afghanistan debacle.
Sending billions to Ukraine as Americans go under .
Pandemic over one night next day no it's not , we will defend Taiwan with troops next day no we won't
A joke of a president and administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 21, 2022, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 21, 2022, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 21, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
I'll leave it to the legal minds but this NY AG press conference doesn't seem good for the ex-President
Initial thoughts

Real estate guys inflating property values for lending purposes and deflating them for tax purposes-it's been happening since the Stone Age

How many other real estate developers are currently being investigated for similar "crimes" or is Trump the only one?

These financial institutions have experts-highly educated, highly paid and experienced-who determine what the valuations are. They don't just take Trumps word for what a building or property is worth.

I think the tax aspect is probably more worrisome but if people are thinking this will finish him off-I wouldn't hold my breath

Will trump go down the same way as Al Capone, another American criminal who was eventually imprisoned for tax evasion.

In the same way that lenders have experts who value properties, states, cities and towns have similar experts called assessors

Were these various real estate assessors across numerous municipalities in kahoots with Trump and actively committing fraud to give him lower assessments so he could pay less taxes:, I highly doubt it

IMHO Trump chanced his arm and seems to have gotten  away with it (up until now), and either the assessors  were grossly incompetent or they were working alongside him. I think this will be very hard to prosecute

Didn't he actually brag at a debate about using every loophole known to mankind to lower his taxes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 21, 2022, 09:48:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2022, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 21, 2022, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 21, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
I'll leave it to the legal minds but this NY AG press conference doesn't seem good for the ex-President
Initial thoughts

Real estate guys inflating property values for lending purposes and deflating them for tax purposes-it's been happening since the Stone Age

How many other real estate developers are currently being investigated for similar "crimes" or is Trump the only one?

These financial institutions have experts-highly educated, highly paid and experienced-who determine what the valuations are. They don't just take Trumps word for what a building or property is worth.

I think the tax aspect is probably more worrisome but if people are thinking this will finish him off-I wouldn't hold my breath

Will trump go down the same way as Al Capone, another American criminal who was eventually imprisoned for tax evasion.

In the same way that lenders have experts who value properties, states, cities and towns have similar experts called assessors

Were these various real estate assessors across numerous municipalities in kahoots with Trump and actively committing fraud to give him lower assessments so he could pay less taxes:, I highly doubt it

IMHO Trump chanced his arm and seems to have gotten  away with it (up until now), and either the assessors  were grossly incompetent or they were working alongside him. I think this will be very hard to prosecute

Didn't he actually brag at a debate about using every loophole known to mankind to lower his taxes
all civil actions, why  no felonies if so bad ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on September 21, 2022, 11:46:54 PM
I read that the QAnon Republican Party presidential candidate Trump called the NY AG, Letitia James, "a racist". There's no bottom to this person's peculiar pit of depravity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2022, 01:29:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2022, 09:48:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2022, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 21, 2022, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 21, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
I'll leave it to the legal minds but this NY AG press conference doesn't seem good for the ex-President
Initial thoughts

Real estate guys inflating property values for lending purposes and deflating them for tax purposes-it's been happening since the Stone Age

How many other real estate developers are currently being investigated for similar "crimes" or is Trump the only one?

These financial institutions have experts-highly educated, highly paid and experienced-who determine what the valuations are. They don't just take Trumps word for what a building or property is worth.

I think the tax aspect is probably more worrisome but if people are thinking this will finish him off-I wouldn't hold my breath

Will trump go down the same way as Al Capone, another American criminal who was eventually imprisoned for tax evasion.

In the same way that lenders have experts who value properties, states, cities and towns have similar experts called assessors

Were these various real estate assessors across numerous municipalities in kahoots with Trump and actively committing fraud to give him lower assessments so he could pay less taxes:, I highly doubt it

IMHO Trump chanced his arm and seems to have gotten  away with it (up until now), and either the assessors  were grossly incompetent or they were working alongside him. I think this will be very hard to prosecute

Didn't he actually brag at a debate about using every loophole known to mankind to lower his taxes
all civil actions, why  no felonies if so bad ?

One thing at a time. Those might come as they're currently under investigation. James made a referral to the US Attorneys office too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2022, 01:31:26 AM
Quote from: Main Street on September 21, 2022, 11:46:54 PM
I read that the QAnon Republican Party presidential candidate Trump called the NY AG, Letitia James, "a racist". There's no bottom to this person's peculiar pit of depravity.

There isn't.

Is the weekend's full embrace of QAnon a sign of him getting worried?

Maybe DeSantis is stealing his thunder in appealing to the basest instincts of certain sections of the US electorate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2022, 01:40:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 21, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
I'll leave it to the legal minds but this NY AG press conference doesn't seem good for the ex President
Initial thoughts

Real estate guys inflating property values for lending purposes and deflating them for tax purposes-it's been happening since the Stone Age

How many other real estate developers are currently being investigated for similar "crimes" or is Trump the only one?[\b]


As I said last time you made this point:

How many of those other real estate developers were investigated by Congress where evidence of potential serious fraud was presented by their former right hand man/fixer, and had their accounting firm disavow a decade of financial statements?

Do you think those types of revelations should just be allowed to fade away into the night, especially when the President in question point blank refuses to lift the lid on his finances like every other president (and candidate) of either party in recent history?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 02:17:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2022, 01:40:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 21, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 21, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
I'll leave it to the legal minds but this NY AG press conference doesn't seem good for the ex President
Initial thoughts

Real estate guys inflating property values for lending purposes and deflating them for tax purposes-it's been happening since the Stone Age

How many other real estate developers are currently being investigated for similar "crimes" or is Trump the only one?[\b]


As I said last time you made this point:

How many of those other real estate developers were investigated by Congress where evidence of potential serious fraud was presented by their former right hand man/fixer, and had their accounting firm disavow a decade of financial statements?

Do you think those types of revelations should just be allowed to fade away into the night, especially when the President in question point blank refuses to lift the lid on his finances like every other president (and candidate) of either party in recent history?

I don't know and really don't care....the bottom line is if he broke the law he should be prosecuted

But what I do know is that Letisha James said in her campaign launch that she was going to get Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/31/nyregion/tish-james-attorney-general-trump.html

Even The NY Times questioned the wisdom of her actions

What would you think of a Republican AG who campaigns in the state of Delaware, that if elected his/her number one goal is to make Joe and Hunter Biden her number one target

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/09/21/james-lawsuit-trump-longstanding-battle-00058128

"During that campaign, she made it clear that Trump would be her top target — remarks that have left the former president, a New York native, stewing ever since."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2022, 09:23:28 AM
I would think that if there is legitimate cause to investigate as there is with Trump, then it should be done, regardless of who it is.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on September 22, 2022, 11:18:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2022, 09:23:28 AM
I would think that if there is legitimate cause to investigate as there is with Trump, then it should be done, regardless of who it is.

It's clearer than EVER now that Trump's 4 years in office wasn't a presidency, it was a crime spree orchestrated by a lifelong conman and enabled by nearly the entire Republican Party. Once Trump is thrown in prison, every single Republican coconspirator must be held accountable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 12:08:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2022, 09:23:28 AM
I would think that if there is legitimate cause to investigate as there is with Trump, then it should be done, regardless of who it is.

Correct

But did she target him because he did wrong or did she target him because of who he is

He is far from the biggest real estate developer in NY

Has she investigated others for similar fraud or is this a one off

Is this is a one off, that should terrify everyone-R or D, that an attorney general can weaponize their office to target political foes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2022, 03:20:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 12:08:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2022, 09:23:28 AM
I would think that if there is legitimate cause to investigate as there is with Trump, then it should be done, regardless of who it is.

Correct

But did she target him because he did wrong or did she target him because of who he is

He is far from the biggest real estate developer in NY

Has she investigated others for similar fraud or is this a one off

Is this is a one off, that should terrify everyone-R or D, that an attorney general can weaponize their office to target political foes
she's on tape before she was elected saying we need to get rid of this illegitimate president
Denying a democratically elected president is grounds for a prison term under current administration
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 22, 2022, 03:24:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 12:08:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2022, 09:23:28 AM
I would think that if there is legitimate cause to investigate as there is with Trump, then it should be done, regardless of who it is.

Correct

But did she target him because he did wrong or did she target him because of who he is

He is far from the biggest real estate developer in NY

Has she investigated others for similar fraud or is this a one off

Is this is a one off, that should terrify everyone-R or D, that an attorney general can weaponize their office to target political foes

Does it matter? Surely the evidence will decide if he's done wrong.

How many times was Hillary investigated and then cleared due to political motivation? The GOP have made a rod for their own back with this kind of behaviour!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 03:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2022, 03:24:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 12:08:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2022, 09:23:28 AM
I would think that if there is legitimate cause to investigate as there is with Trump, then it should be done, regardless of who it is.

Correct

But did she target him because he did wrong or did she target him because of who he is

He is far from the biggest real estate developer in NY

Has she investigated others for similar fraud or is this a one off

Is this is a one off, that should terrify everyone-R or D, that an attorney general can weaponize their office to target political foes

Does it matter? Surely the evidence will decide if he's done wrong.

How many times was Hillary investigated and then cleared due to political motivation? The GOP have made a rod for their own back with this kind of behaviour!

Jntereteing

How many state AGs brought civil cases against Hillary?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 22, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
Did the actual AG not complete a fairly exhaustive look into the Clinton Foundation only to find nothing?

Surely the State AG has found something on Trump and is bringing it to court??

Is there a huge difference?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 04:08:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
Did the actual AG not complete a fairly exhaustive look into the Clinton Foundation only to find nothing?

Surely the State AG has found something on Trump and is bringing it to court??

Is there a huge difference?

So following this logic a local state (Republican) AG should now reopen that investigation, and pursue civil charges against the Clinton's  (interesting)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 22, 2022, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 04:08:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
Did the actual AG not complete a fairly exhaustive look into the Clinton Foundation only to find nothing?

Surely the State AG has found something on Trump and is bringing it to court??

Is there a huge difference?

So following that logic a local state (Republican) AG should now reopen that investigation and pursue civil charges (interesting)

Why would the investigation be reopened if it didn't find anything?

From my reading of it James has been investigating this for 3 years and is bringing charges based on what has been found?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 04:26:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2022, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 04:08:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 22, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
Did the actual AG not complete a fairly exhaustive look into the Clinton Foundation only to find nothing?

Surely the State AG has found something on Trump and is bringing it to court??

Is there a huge difference?

So following that logic a local state (Republican) AG should now reopen that investigation and pursue civil charges (interesting)

Why would the investigation be reopened if it didn't find anything?

From my reading of it James has been investigating this for 3 years and is bringing charges based on what has been found?

My understanding is that the "actual" AG conducted a criminal investigation and found nothing

A civil case has a much lower threshold


It's all very complicated

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 05:13:24 PM
One question I have is how did he pull this off?

Banks have governance boards, outside auditors, state regulators and a plethora of other entities that review and assess their lending activities

So either they were all in cahoots with him, they were outrageously incompetent or Trump is the biggest genius if the history of the world

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on September 22, 2022, 05:37:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 05:13:24 PM
One question I have is how did he pull this off?

Banks have governance boards, outside auditors, state regulators and a plethora of other entities that review and assess their lending activities

So either they were all in cahoots with him, they were outrageously incompetent or Trump is the biggest genius if the history of the world

He has been corrupt all his life. He's used to not paying people or his taxes. These things usually catch up with people if you wait long enough. He should have been in jail decades ago but it'll be good to see him held to account eventually.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 22, 2022, 05:37:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 05:13:24 PM
One question I have is how did he pull this off?

Banks have governance boards, outside auditors, state regulators and a plethora of other entities that review and assess their lending activities

So either they were all in cahoots with him, they were outrageously incompetent or Trump is the biggest genius if the history of the world

He has been corrupt all his life. He's used to not paying people or his taxes. These things usually catch up with people if you wait long enough. He should have been in jail decades ago but it'll be good to see him held to account eventually.

That's not what I'm asking

Let's say you go to trade in a car and you tell the dealer, it's a 2018 model with 25K miles on the clock when in fact it's a 2008 with 250K miles on the clock.

How many times could you pull off that scam? Maybe once if you had someone working with you on the inside

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 06:39:12 PM
white collar crime is a new one on me too  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 06:59:48 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 06:39:12 PM
white collar crime is a new one on me too  ;D

It's a civil case not a criminal case so that makes sense
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2022, 07:02:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 12:08:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2022, 09:23:28 AM
I would think that if there is legitimate cause to investigate as there is with Trump, then it should be done, regardless of who it is.

Correct

But did she target him because he did wrong or did she target him because of who he is

He is far from the biggest real estate developer in NY

Has she investigated others for similar fraud or is this a one off

Is this is a one off, that should terrify everyone-R or D, that an attorney general can weaponize their office to target political foes

Weaponize??

Again, you're ignoring the fact that all of the info leading to this was being highly publicized due to inner circle/fixer testimony before Congress and the disavowal of years of finance information by his accountants. Are the authorities in NY just supposed to ignore it? Were any of these other real estate moguls fixing the books like Trump was alleged to be doing? Do you have evidence that the NY AG's office let's such practices slide?

I voted for James fully aware that if she won she would do her job and hold Trump to account where she was able. The GOP certainly wasn't going to and still is a full accessory to his corruption and undermining of democracy.

It's amazing how you downplay everything Trump and the GOP do, yet lose it over a Democratic state AG just doing her job.

US politics is partisan and has been for decades. If you've skeletons in your closet, either don't run or else hire some good lawyers because the opposition are going to sniff it out and investigate.

If Trump ends up losing his NY privileges I'm sure the people of Florida will welcome his corruption and stiffing of small businessmen to their state.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 22, 2022, 07:04:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 22, 2022, 05:37:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 05:13:24 PM
One question I have is how did he pull this off?

Banks have governance boards, outside auditors, state regulators and a plethora of other entities that review and assess their lending activities

So either they were all in cahoots with him, they were outrageously incompetent or Trump is the biggest genius if the history of the world

He has been corrupt all his life. He's used to not paying people or his taxes. These things usually catch up with people if you wait long enough. He should have been in jail decades ago but it'll be good to see him held to account eventually.

That's not what I'm asking

Let's say you go to trade in a car and you tell the dealer, it's a 2018 model with 25K miles on the clock when in fact it's a 2008 with 250K miles on the clock.

How many times could you pull off that scam? Maybe once if you had someone working with you on the inside

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Agency oversight isn't always all it's cracked up to be.

NYC Dept of Buildings and cranes, Bernie Madoff, oil industry, 2008 crisis...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:18:02 PM
It's not just one "agency" overseeing these banks

There's layer after layer of oversight from federal state and local entities not to mention internal and external auditors.

Makes absolutely no sense that if what he did was fraudulent that it no one ever caught it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:23:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:18:02 PM
It's not just one "agency" overseeing these banks

There's layer after layer of oversight from federal state and local entities not to mention internal and external auditors.

Makes absolutely no sense that if what he did was fraudulent that it no one ever caught it

white collar crime
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:31:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2022, 07:02:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 12:08:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 22, 2022, 09:23:28 AM
I would think that if there is legitimate cause to investigate as there is with Trump, then it should be done, regardless of who it is.

Correct

But did she target him because he did wrong or did she target him because of who he is

He is far from the biggest real estate developer in NY

Has she investigated others for similar fraud or is this a one off

Is this is a one off, that should terrify everyone-R or D, that an attorney general can weaponize their office to target political foes

Weaponize??

Again, you're ignoring the fact that all of the info leading to this was being highly publicized due to inner circle/fixer testimony before Congress and the disavowal of years of finance information by his accountants. Are the authorities in NY just supposed to ignore it? Were any of these other real estate moguls fixing the books like Trump was alleged to be doing? Do you have evidence that the NY AG's office let's such practices slide?

I voted for James fully aware that if she won she would do her job and hold Trump to account where she was able. The GOP certainly wasn't going to and still is a full accessory to his corruption and undermining of democracy.

It's amazing how you downplay everything Trump and the GOP do, yet lose it over a Democratic state AG just doing her job.

US politics is partisan and has been for decades. If you've skeletons in your closet, either don't run or else hire some good lawyers because the opposition are going to sniff it out and investigate.

If Trump ends up losing his NY privileges I'm sure the people of Florida will welcome his corruption and stiffing of small businessmen to their state.

I'm downplaying nothing

If he broke the law he should be prosecuted

But you (and the AG) make it sound like Trump just submitted the inflated valuations and that these valuations are just accepted on face value and that is fraud. That's simply untrue

Same thing with the low ball valuations he submitted for property tax purposes-the assessors dont just accept Trumps valuations as gospel. He had/has brass balls to pull off what they claim he did, but my God, what we're the assessors doing accepting these valuations?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:34:57 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:23:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:18:02 PM
It's not just one "agency" overseeing these banks

There's layer after layer of oversight from federal state and local entities not to mention internal and external auditors.

Makes absolutely no sense that if what he did was fraudulent that it no one ever caught it

white collar crime

By the Banks and regulators?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered... 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on September 22, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:51:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

True-but this isn't a criminal case-it's a civil case

He would have needed a lot of people in a lots of different positions over many time periods to be turning a blind eye
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:52:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 22, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:52:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 22, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 08:31:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:52:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 22, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.


I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:45:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 08:31:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:52:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 22, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 22, 2022, 09:06:37 PM
It's political, I know it and everyone else does too
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 22, 2022, 09:28:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:45:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 08:31:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:52:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 22, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Bank auditors and regulators (internal and external) for decades signed off on the valuations and underwriting for these loans-

Now all of a sudden these valuations are problematic.

I guess the chips will fall wherever they will in court, but every real estate developer in NYC must be quite nervous if this is the new standard to a prosecution






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 09:56:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 09:28:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:45:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 08:31:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:52:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 22, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Bank auditors and regulators (internal and external) for decades signed off on the valuations and underwriting for these loans-

Now all of a sudden these valuations are problematic.

I guess the chips will fall wherever they will in court, but every real estate developer in NYC must be quite nervous if this is the new standard to a prosecution

Firstly if you are high profile and make enemies easily make sure you got your shit in order.  I dont think others need worry too much. If you are high profile and do drugs and are caught on camera for example you are more likely to face trouble with the law then if you are an average Joe soap due to more exposure etc.

secondly, if it isn't OK now, it wasnt OK tben, it just wasn't identified.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on September 23, 2022, 12:21:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 09:28:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:45:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 08:31:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:52:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 22, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 22, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Bank auditors and regulators (internal and external) for decades signed off on the valuations and underwriting for these loans-

Now all of a sudden these valuations are problematic.

I guess the chips will fall wherever they will in court, but every real estate developer in NYC must be quite nervous if this is the new standard to a prosecution

Watch The Big Short if you think that something like this can't happen repeatedly over the course of a number of years with regulators and banks turning a blind eye to the practice... given the catastrophe we faced during the crash in the late 2000s none of this should come as anything resembling a surprise.

The banking system up until the point was a shambles and it wouldn't be surprising if there aren't some "legacy issues" around the big boyos like Trumper!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 23, 2022, 03:12:18 AM
Guys - I don't even support Donald Trump - ok?

Also guys - here's me vigorously defending him daily since 2015.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 23, 2022, 11:07:05 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 23, 2022, 03:12:18 AM
Guys - I don't even support Donald Trump - ok?

Also guys - here's me vigorously defending him daily since 2015.


But it's the Dems who makes him do it! 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 23, 2022, 12:23:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 22, 2022, 07:18:02 PM
It's not just one "agency" overseeing these banks

There's layer after layer of oversight from federal state and local entities not to mention internal and external auditors.

Makes absolutely no sense that if what he did was fraudulent that it no one ever caught it

So why didn't they catch Madoff?

Someone else referenced the Big Short (whose author, if I recall correctly, you're a fan of) and how it detailed the regulatory and banking failures that led to the 2008 crisis. Why were there only one or two lone voices in the wilderness warning of what was to come even with all the supposed interlocking oversight?

I spent a few years in a regulatory enforcement agency myself. Given the available resources, it would take around 150 years for that agency to inspect all of the entities it enforces, and we're just talking setting foot in them, not taking a floor-to-ceiling look.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 23, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations? 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 23, 2022, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2022, 09:21:52 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 23, 2022, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

From a legal standpoint you are correct and I already said numerous times that if Trump broke the law he should face the consequences

My points are from a political standpoint

Putting aside for a moment that this is Trump, are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 24, 2022, 10:36:53 PM
Dems now within 13 seats of keeping the House with 6 weeks to go to the election. 6 weeks ago they were 25 seats away. Still a long way to November 8th and more than enough time to close the gap to within the margin of polling error. If we do this, DC & Puerto Rico statehood and an expanded Supreme Court look a lot more doable. Expanded voting rights could deal another crippling blow to anti-democracy conservatives.  Legalized abortion could be codified at the federal level.

The overturning of Roe could go down in history as the moment when the MAGA white supremacists overplayed their hand and the checks and balances in the system came back to bite them. They've pushed that pendulum so far to the right that the swing-back is almost unavoidable at this point.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 24, 2022, 10:39:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2022, 09:21:52 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 23, 2022, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

From a legal standpoint you are correct and I already said numerous times that if Trump broke the law he should face the consequences

My points are from a political standpoint

Putting aside for a moment that this is Trump, are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

out of one side if your mouth it's common practice and out of the other it's auditors, regulators, lawyers couldn't let something like this happen.

leaving Trump aside, if you are high profile, if there are suspicions about you, expect some heat.

again not every speeder is caught. if what Trump is doing is wrong and others are also doing it, those people should be concerned especially if they have big profiles but there is finite resources for all this stuff I'd imagine... so not everyone will be caught.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 24, 2022, 11:25:17 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 24, 2022, 10:39:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2022, 09:21:52 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 23, 2022, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

From a legal standpoint you are correct and I already said numerous times that if Trump broke the law he should face the consequences

My points are from a political standpoint

Putting aside for a moment that this is Trump, are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

out of one side if your mouth it's common practice and out of the other it's auditors, regulators, lawyers couldn't let something like this happen.

leaving Trump aside, if you are high profile, if there are suspicions about you, expect some heat.

again not every speeder is caught. if what Trump is doing is wrong and others are also doing it, those people should be concerned especially if they have big profiles but there is finite resources for all this stuff I'd imagine... so not everyone will be caught.

Maybe the regulators/auditors didn't find it because it's not something they were not looking for it?

Maybe they weren't looking for, it because it's common practice and everyone does it and has been doing it for decades?

Anyway-going back to my question

Yes or no-are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 25, 2022, 07:19:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2022, 11:25:17 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 24, 2022, 10:39:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 24, 2022, 09:21:52 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 23, 2022, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

From a legal standpoint you are correct and I already said numerous times that if Trump broke the law he should face the consequences

My points are from a political standpoint

Putting aside for a moment that this is Trump, are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

out of one side if your mouth it's common practice and out of the other it's auditors, regulators, lawyers couldn't let something like this happen.

leaving Trump aside, if you are high profile, if there are suspicions about you, expect some heat.

again not every speeder is caught. if what Trump is doing is wrong and others are also doing it, those people should be concerned especially if they have big profiles but there is finite resources for all this stuff I'd imagine... so not everyone will be caught.

Maybe the regulators/auditors didn't find it because it's not something they were not looking for it?

Maybe they weren't looking for, it because it's common practice and everyone does it and has been doing it for decades?

Anyway-going back to my question

Yes or no-are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

lost in if buts and maybes whitey...

I am OK with it because if not as banal as you infer. See previous posts..

similarly, I could ask you are you OK with an AG not prosecuting a political opponent  because of the visual of them being a political opponent if they are doing something wrong.

it appears you are ok with that as long as everyone else doing a similar wrong is prosecuted too... not every speeder or drug user is prosecuted.

why so concerned about Trump?  I would think he's done much worst in his life and this won't hurt him at all anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 25, 2022, 11:58:40 AM
The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 25, 2022, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 11:58:40 AM
The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

I am OK with wrongdoing being investigated and charges brought if there is a case there...  by your logical an AG can only prosecut those of a similar political preference....

to your first two point again, that hasn't prevented fraud, wrong doing  before so it is not 100%, this point seems lost on you..

if the charges are garage then surely Trump comes out stronger and cleaner.. he should welcome this type of challenge if nothing to hide...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 25, 2022, 12:51:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 25, 2022, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 11:58:40 AM
The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

I am OK with wrongdoing being investigated and charges brought if there is a case there...  by your logical an AG can only prosecut those of a similar political preference....

to your first two point again, that hasn't prevented fraud, wrong doing  before so it is not 100%, this point seems lost on you..

if the charges are garage then surely Trump comes out stronger and cleaner.. he should welcome this type of challenge if nothing to hide...

Wrongdoing had already been investigated by 2 Separate Manhattan DAs and neither brought charges (and both  men would be considered hostile toward Trump)

And you are correct, if Trump gets off it's a win for him. (But this is a civil case so there's a much lower threshold so who knows how it goes)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on September 25, 2022, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 12:51:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 25, 2022, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 11:58:40 AM
The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

I am OK with wrongdoing being investigated and charges brought if there is a case there...  by your logical an AG can only prosecut those of a similar political preference....

to your first two point again, that hasn't prevented fraud, wrong doing  before so it is not 100%, this point seems lost on you..

if the charges are garage then surely Trump comes out stronger and cleaner.. he should welcome this type of challenge if nothing to hide...

Wrongdoing had already been investigated by 2 Separate Manhattan DAs and neither brought charges (and both  men would be considered hostile toward Trump)

And you are correct, if Trump gets off it's a win for him. (But this is a civil case so there's a much lower threshold so who knows how it goes)

Let's just hope that justice is done then and if he's guilty that it finishes him once and for all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 25, 2022, 03:20:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 12:51:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 25, 2022, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 11:58:40 AM
The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

I am OK with wrongdoing being investigated and charges brought if there is a case there...  by your logical an AG can only prosecut those of a similar political preference....

to your first two point again, that hasn't prevented fraud, wrong doing  before so it is not 100%, this point seems lost on you..

if the charges are garage then surely Trump comes out stronger and cleaner.. he should welcome this type of challenge if nothing to hide...

Wrongdoing had already been investigated by 2 Separate Manhattan DAs and neither brought charges (and both  men would be considered hostile toward Trump)

And you are correct, if Trump gets off it's a win for him. (But this is a civil case so there's a much lower threshold so who knows how it goes)

I dont know much about the history. You might remember my initial comment was about white collar crime. That was all I wanted to add.

Auditors, lawyers, regulators etc. have all been around and there has been fraud and wrongdoing. You have tried to use those as a defense of defense of Trump that he could not do what he is accused of because of auditors etc.

I'll leave it there, I've no interest in the soap opera that is American politics...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 25, 2022, 03:24:00 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 25, 2022, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 12:51:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 25, 2022, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 11:58:40 AM
The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

I am OK with wrongdoing being investigated and charges brought if there is a case there...  by your logical an AG can only prosecut those of a similar political preference....

to your first two point again, that hasn't prevented fraud, wrong doing  before so it is not 100%, this point seems lost on you..

if the charges are garage then surely Trump comes out stronger and cleaner.. he should welcome this type of challenge if nothing to hide...

Wrongdoing had already been investigated by 2 Separate Manhattan DAs and neither brought charges (and both  men would be considered hostile toward Trump)

And you are correct, if Trump gets off it's a win for him. (But this is a civil case so there's a much lower threshold so who knows how it goes)

Let's just hope that justice is done then and if he's guilty that it finishes him once and for all.
yes bring on Desantis
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 26, 2022, 01:22:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 12:51:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 25, 2022, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 25, 2022, 11:58:40 AM
The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

I am OK with wrongdoing being investigated and charges brought if there is a case there...  by your logical an AG can only prosecut those of a similar political preference....

to your first two point again, that hasn't prevented fraud, wrong doing  before so it is not 100%, this point seems lost on you..

if the charges are garage then surely Trump comes out stronger and cleaner.. he should welcome this type of challenge if nothing to hide...

Wrongdoing had already been investigated by 2 Separate Manhattan DAs and neither brought charges (and both  men would be considered hostile toward Trump)

And you are correct, if Trump gets off it's a win for him. (But this is a civil case so there's a much lower threshold so who knows how it goes)

There were resignations from the DA's office over Bragg's handling of the investigation since he got in.

And the previous guy Vance let them off with barely slaps on the wrist over fraud in a Soho building, no doubt greased by political contributions ( similar concerns were raised about Vance and his treatment of allegations against Harvey Weinstein).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2022, 06:53:07 AM
Today in BS manufactured conservative outrage: Someone called Lizzo (a black female musician, oh boy is she gonna get it!) played a 200 year-old flute owned by James Madison.

Here is a selection of reactions from the howling wilderness of a planet that is the right wing rubbishosphere, from people who I guarantee never even heard of this flute a few days before:

"The Library of Congress really took out a 200-year old flute that belonged to James Madison just so Lizzo could twerk with it. They degrade our history and then call you racist if you actually value it."

"We're going to let Kid Rock crowd surf on Obama's presidential portrait if and when Republicans retake the White House."

"A humiliation ritual. They don't care about our history. They just want to mock and defile it." (Note the "they" and "our" in that sentence. Very telling.)

"If you can figure out the link between raiding the home of a peaceful man who offered to turn himself in and an anti-American singer twerking with James Madison's flute, congratulations. You know what's happening and what time it is."

"This Lizzo-flute controversy is a perfect example of what I have termed Face Tattoo Phenomenon™: the phenomenon whereby someone does something deliberately controversial in an attempt to draw attention, and then acts offended when you notice. If all we had seen was the clip of Lizzo playing the flute in the halls of the Library of Congress while wearing a semi-modest outfit, everyone would have shrugged. But that's not the clip everyone championed as groundbreaking: it was the clip where she bragged about twerking. ... It's the vulgarization of American history."


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 30, 2022, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 30, 2022, 06:53:07 AM
Today in BS manufactured conservative outrage: Someone called Lizzo (a black female musician, oh boy is she gonna get it!) played a 200 year-old flute owned by James Madison.

Here is a selection of reactions from the howling wilderness of a planet that is the right wing rubbishosphere, from people who I guarantee never even heard of this flute a few days before:

"The Library of Congress really took out a 200-year old flute that belonged to James Madison just so Lizzo could twerk with it. They degrade our history and then call you racist if you actually value it."

"We're going to let Kid Rock crowd surf on Obama's presidential portrait if and when Republicans retake the White House."

"A humiliation ritual. They don't care about our history. They just want to mock and defile it." (Note the "they" and "our" in that sentence. Very telling.)

"If you can figure out the link between raiding the home of a peaceful man who offered to turn himself in and an anti-American singer twerking with James Madison's flute, congratulations. You know what's happening and what time it is."

"This Lizzo-flute controversy is a perfect example of what I have termed Face Tattoo Phenomenon™: the phenomenon whereby someone does something deliberately controversial in an attempt to draw attention, and then acts offended when you notice. If all we had seen was the clip of Lizzo playing the flute in the halls of the Library of Congress while wearing a semi-modest outfit, everyone would have shrugged. But that's not the clip everyone championed as groundbreaking: it was the clip where she bragged about twerking. ... It's the vulgarization of American history."
any conservative should be more worried about the state of the president and VP, joe calling on dead people at an event and then wandering around clueless after making a few speeches during the week very sad , VP doesn't know the difference between north and South Korea.
Getting beyond a joke .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2022, 05:18:14 PM
I think I'm just going to continue letting the spirit of bipartisan cooperation and respect wash over me as the feds and the states of Florida and the Carolinas together tackle the devastation of Ian, and forget about the Lizzo "crisis", Joe's embarrassing calling out of the late congresswoman, and Trump's Jedi Mind Trick declassification and anti-democracy notions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on September 30, 2022, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 30, 2022, 05:18:14 PM
I think I'm just going to continue letting the spirit of bipartisan cooperation and respect wash over me as the feds and the states of Florida and the Carolinas together tackle the devastation of Ian, and forget about the Lizzo "crisis", Joe's embarrassing calling out of the late congresswoman, and Trump's Jedi Mind Trick declassification and anti-democracy notions.
we all can agree on the former but it must be getting obvious to you even what a disaster these 2 have been to the country and world .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on September 30, 2022, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 30, 2022, 05:18:14 PM
I think I'm just going to continue letting the spirit of bipartisan cooperation and respect wash over me as the feds and the states of Florida and the Carolinas together tackle the devastation of Ian, and forget about the Lizzo "crisis", Joe's embarrassing calling out of the late congresswoman, and Trump's Jedi Mind Trick declassification and anti-democracy notions.

Could Lizzo have actually worn some clothes to the performance? I'm  scarred after watching that spectacle
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 01, 2022, 09:04:04 AM
No worst that the man before him,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 10:06:22 AM
Just saw the Biden video. It's scary that this man has the nuclear codes. I pity him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 01, 2022, 11:56:23 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 10:06:22 AM
Just saw the Biden video. It's scary that this man has the nuclear codes. I pity him.

At least he hasn't reached the level of wearing his trousers back to front or telling people to drink bleach. And also, fair play to him he pays his taxes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on October 01, 2022, 12:19:09 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 01, 2022, 11:56:23 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 10:06:22 AM
Just saw the Biden video. It's scary that this man has the nuclear codes. I pity him.

At least he hasn't reached the level of wearing his trousers back to front or telling people to drink bleach. And also, fair play to him he pays his taxes.

I'm no fan of Trump or his family but you can still think that Biden is way too old and senile to be President.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 12:22:10 PM
I'm also no fan of Trump but he never use the words "drink" or "bleach".
People are so bloody partisan that they still believe any rubbish if it confirms their bias.

Youd also think Trump won in 2020 the way some people go on. Man is living rent free in some heads.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 01, 2022, 01:33:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 12:22:10 PM
I'm also no fan of Trump but he never use the words "drink" or "bleach".
People are so bloody partisan that they still believe any rubbish if it confirms their bias.

Youd also think Trump won in 2020 the way some people go on. Man is living rent free in some heads.

And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it'd be interesting to check that, so that you're going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we'll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That's pretty powerful.

That's trump's quote. You're defending it because he didn't use the word bleach but he did use the word disinfectant which is bleach based almost always. What gets me is that some people who are constantly criticising biden also gave trump a complete bye ball. Biden has generally done a great job as president so far. He's made the odd gaffe but nothing close to the thing trump said and did. I agree though that it's a sad indictment of the USA that the last 2 presidents have been trump and biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 02:41:28 PM
Lol nowhere in that waffle is there anything resembling drink bleach. It's ok, admit you got it wrong and we'll move on. It happens.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 01, 2022, 02:57:19 PM
Trump is a clown of epic proportions but he DIDNT:

Say for people to drink bleach

Say there were fine people on both sides

Mock a disabled reporter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 01, 2022, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 02:41:28 PM
Lol nowhere in that waffle is there anything resembling drink bleach. It's ok, admit you got it wrong and we'll move on. It happens.

He did mention injecting it tho.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 03:03:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 01, 2022, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 02:41:28 PM
Lol nowhere in that waffle is there anything resembling drink bleach. It's ok, admit you got it wrong and we'll move on. It happens.

He did mention injecting it tho.

He never told anyone to drink or inject anything. He said it could be researched as an option (he was wrong).

Before the press conference he had been briefed by scientists how light could eradicate the virus and how it reacted to disinfectant. He's picked this up wrong and said it could be looked at for use in humans already infected.

It was a gaff.
He did not tell anyone to drink bleach.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 01, 2022, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 03:03:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 01, 2022, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 02:41:28 PM
Lol nowhere in that waffle is there anything resembling drink bleach. It's ok, admit you got it wrong and we'll move on. It happens.

He did mention injecting it tho.

He never told anyone to drink or inject anything. He said it could be researched as an option (he was wrong).

Before the press conference he had been briefed by scientists how light could eradicate the virus and how it reacted to disinfectant. He's picked this up wrong and said it could be looked at for use in humans already infected.

It was a gaff.
He did not tell anyone to drink bleach.

His words were very dangerous and his scientific advisers were stunned by his words. He has many, many idiotic supporters and there were reports of more than a few who tried his bleach/disinfectant advice. Biden doesn't get serious stuff like that wrong. Trump's love in with Putin gave putin all the encouragement he needed to prepare for war and we're all paying for it now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 01, 2022, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 03:03:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 01, 2022, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 01, 2022, 02:41:28 PM
Lol nowhere in that waffle is there anything resembling drink bleach. It's ok, admit you got it wrong and we'll move on. It happens.

He did mention injecting it tho.

He never told anyone to drink or inject anything. He said it could be researched as an option (he was wrong).

Before the press conference he had been briefed by scientists how light could eradicate the virus and how it reacted to disinfectant. He's picked this up wrong and said it could be looked at for use in humans already infected.

It was a gaff.
He did not tell anyone to drink bleach.

You can argue the toss all you like. Did he directly tell people to drink/ inject bleach. No. Did he stand up in front of cameras and discuss the possibility that it might be useful. They are both pretty serious "gaffs".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on October 01, 2022, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

True.

Quote from: lenny on October 01, 2022, 03:42:44 PM

He has many, many idiotic supporters and there were reports of more than a few who tried his bleach/disinfectant advice.

Reports? From whom? The left media? Who, y'know, made a living off mocking Trump? Couldn't get enough of him! 'Even' the BBC was caught cutting his 'disinfectant' press conference to make him look more foolish. So, it's hard to believe 'reports'.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 07:17:32 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 01, 2022, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

True.

Quote from: lenny on October 01, 2022, 03:42:44 PM

He has many, many idiotic supporters and there were reports of more than a few who tried his bleach/disinfectant advice.

Reports? From whom? The left media? Who, y'know, made a living off mocking Trump? Couldn't get enough of him! 'Even' the BBC was caught cutting his 'disinfectant' press conference to make him look more foolish. So, it's hard to believe 'reports'.
they don't need to edit anything from the current pair,  dumb and dumber .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 01, 2022, 07:48:22 PM
Actual quote:

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you're totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn't been checked, but you're going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you're going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?

And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it'd be interesting to check that, so that you're going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we'll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That's pretty powerful."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 07:54:55 PM
No drinking bleach in that thanks eamon
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 01, 2022, 09:30:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 30, 2022, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 30, 2022, 05:18:14 PM
I think I'm just going to continue letting the spirit of bipartisan cooperation and respect wash over me as the feds and the states of Florida and the Carolinas together tackle the devastation of Ian, and forget about the Lizzo "crisis", Joe's embarrassing calling out of the late congresswoman, and Trump's Jedi Mind Trick declassification and anti-democracy notions.
we all can agree on the former but it must be getting obvious to you even what a disaster these 2 have been to the country and world .

There's degrees of disaster.

Whatever Biden's faults and mistakes, the man he replaced is far, far worse for the country and the overall world.

And if Trump had had a shred of decency and intelligence in him and had reacted appropriately and been a responsible, mature leader in 2020 with Covid and George Floyd and, indeed, the overall concept of democratic elections, he probably would have been re-elected.

Those two crises were gimmes for any president, but Trump didn't have it in him.

DeSantis has put the culture warrior bullshit aside this week and, so far, appears to be soberly handling and managing a seriously challenging set of circumstances for his state. It's not that hard when it comes down to it. Except for Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 01, 2022, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 09:51:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2022, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.
there is reality and j70s opinion and I'm supposed  to be the tinfoil hat guy .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 01, 2022, 09:59:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 09:51:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2022, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.
there is reality and j70s opinion and I'm supposed  to be the tinfoil hat guy .

This is Trump we're talking about here.

The man who never failed to bend the knee to Putin.

The man who spent two hours meeting him without aides in Finland, only to emerge and publicly accept Putin's "assurances" over the findings of the US intelligence community and senior Republicans, never mind Democrats.

The man who called Putin's invasion of Ukraine "genius" and "savvy".

But you go ahead and ignore the bleeding obvious and cling to some fantastical notion that Trump's "unpredictability" would have deterred Putin.

Trump's servile admiration of Putin is about the most predictable thing there is in US-Russian relations.

And I would add, had Trump got in again, NATO was on the chopping block (he was advised to cool those plans until he, presumably, got re-elected). That would really have had Putin cowering in the corner!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on October 01, 2022, 11:32:20 PM
On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 02, 2022, 12:02:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2022, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.

J70

Obama and Biden did nothing when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014-they emboldened him

They also refused to supply Ukraine with the weapons they actually wanted-Trump sent them

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2022, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 02, 2022, 12:02:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2022, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.

J70

Obama and Biden did nothing when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014-they emboldened him

They also refused to supply Ukraine with the weapons they actually wanted-Trump sent them

And...?

Trump gave them some, but not on any altruistic, ideological basis. He was convinced by Congressional Republicans that is would be good for business. And he then turned off the tap in an attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy into helping his personal political campaign. Committed to the security of the Ukraine, Trump was not.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2022, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 01, 2022, 11:32:20 PM
On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 02, 2022, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2022, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 02, 2022, 12:02:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2022, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.

J70

Obama and Biden did nothing when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014-they emboldened him

They also refused to supply Ukraine with the weapons they actually wanted-Trump sent them

And...?

Trump gave them some, but not on any altruistic, ideological basis. He was convinced by Congressional Republicans that is would be good for business. And he then turned off the tap in an attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy into helping his personal political campaign. Committed to the security of the Ukraine, Trump was not.

2 things can be true at the same time

Yes, Trump tried to extort Ukraine, but he provided them with the weapons they requested

Obama/Biden refused those same requests further emboldening Russia
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2022, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 02, 2022, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2022, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 02, 2022, 12:02:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2022, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 01, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.

J70

Obama and Biden did nothing when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014-they emboldened him

They also refused to supply Ukraine with the weapons they actually wanted-Trump sent them

And...?

Trump gave them some, but not on any altruistic, ideological basis. He was convinced by Congressional Republicans that is would be good for business. And he then turned off the tap in an attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy into helping his personal political campaign. Committed to the security of the Ukraine, Trump was not.

2 things can be true at the same time

Yes, Trump tried to extort Ukraine, but he provided them with the weapons they requested

Obama/Biden refused those same requests further emboldening Russia

And equally two other things can be true at the same time:

Trump gave them weapons AND he emboldened/encouraged Putin through just about every other action he took, both personally and in his rhetoric and proposals towards NATO, Russia and Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 02, 2022, 05:30:55 PM
LOL-he emboldened them while at the same arming their adversaries to the hilt

Why did he wait for trump to leave office before invading if he was that emboldened?

I've heard it all now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 02, 2022, 05:50:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 02, 2022, 05:30:55 PM
LOL-he emboldened them while at the same arming their adversaries to the hilt

Why did he wait for trump to leave office before invading?

I've heard it all now

Yes whitey, the world is completely black and white, full only of mutually exclusive binary options.

Trump, head of a massive government and under pressure from Congress can only give in to them and send the Ukrainians arms. He can't at the same time do everything in his power to publicly suck up to Putin and to encourage him with his antagonization of European allies, his denigration of NATO and plans to withdraw the US from that organization. And even if he did so, such planning and posturing doesn't mean anything whatsoever because he sent some anti-tank missiles that might last the Ukrainians a few weeks in the event of an invasion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/15/john-boltons-crusade-debunk-trumps-revisionist-history-russia-ukraine/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/15/john-boltons-crusade-debunk-trumps-revisionist-history-russia-ukraine/)


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 02, 2022, 08:29:43 PM
How many billions has been sent to Ukraine 75/100 ?
10% for the big guy ? Money laundering of epic proportions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on October 02, 2022, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2022, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 01, 2022, 11:32:20 PM
On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 02, 2022, 10:06:21 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 02, 2022, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2022, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 01, 2022, 11:32:20 PM
On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??
higher gas and oil prices 70k refugees and ww3
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2022, 12:56:08 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 02, 2022, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2022, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 01, 2022, 11:32:20 PM
On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??

Apart from hopefully getting their country back and knocking back the threat of their much larger, more powerful, neighbour?

Strange point of view for an Irish person.

Ukraine is fully entitled to seek closer ties with the EU and NATO, no matter what Putin thinks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on October 03, 2022, 01:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2022, 12:56:08 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 02, 2022, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2022, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 01, 2022, 11:32:20 PM
On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??

Apart from hopefully getting their country back and knocking back the threat of their much larger, more powerful, neighbour?

Strange point of view for an Irish person.

Ukraine is fully entitled to seek closer ties with the EU and NATO, no matter what Putin thinks.

"For an Irish person"? What, someone who's seen successive governments persistently refuse to try and get "their country back" in case it cause too much bloodshed?!

Also, one has to wonder if it's as much NATO and the EU seeking to extend their influence into Ukraine, as the other way 'round? Remember the Western-sponsored coup in 2014?! Y'know - why would they care if they weren't trying to get their own greedy claws into Ukraine!?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 03, 2022, 02:32:02 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 03, 2022, 01:49:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2022, 12:56:08 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 02, 2022, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2022, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 01, 2022, 11:32:20 PM
On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??

Apart from hopefully getting their country back and knocking back the threat of their much larger, more powerful, neighbour?

Strange point of view for an Irish person.

Ukraine is fully entitled to seek closer ties with the EU and NATO, no matter what Putin thinks.

"For an Irish person"? What, someone who's seen successive governments persistently refuse to try and get "their country back" in case it cause too much bloodshed?!

Also, one has to wonder if it's as much NATO and the EU seeking to extend their influence into Ukraine, as the other way 'round? Remember the Western-sponsored coup in 2014?! Y'know - why would they care if they weren't trying to get their own greedy claws into Ukraine!?

The failures in Ireland and the fucked up settlement we ended up with are all the more reason why we should understand and sympathize with what the average Ukrainian should get out of their country's refusal to accept Putin's invasion. At least in my opinion.

And yeah, geopolitics is complicated and dirty, not black/white, good guys/bad/guys. Ukraine matters for various reasons in ways that "lesser" countries/conflict regions don't, unfortunately. That doesn't excuse what Putin has done nor mean that the Ukrainians should just sit and accept their fate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 04, 2022, 12:27:50 AM
45 is suing CNN for $475m for "defamation"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 04, 2022, 07:33:09 AM
New study of almost 600,000 deaths in Ohio and Florida shows that registered Republicans had far higher excess-death rates than registered Democrats during the pandemic, with almost all of the gap coming after vaccines were available.

That's the trump influence because he was so dismissive of covid/recommended ivermectin and bleach and pushed the anti vaccine narrative which he knew his supporters would like.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 04, 2022, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 04, 2022, 12:27:50 AM
45 is suing CNN for $475m for "defamation"

The irony! :D

Has he ever actually won one of these law suits?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2022, 02:21:24 PM
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/ny-hotel-shooter-had-converted-fully-automatic-gun-materials-used-to-make-explosives-official/3890644/?amp

Insane.....I stayed at that hotel 2 weeks ago while visiting a client


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 04, 2022, 02:24:25 PM
wow - really makes you think eh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 04, 2022, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 04, 2022, 07:33:09 AM
New study of almost 600,000 deaths in Ohio and Florida shows that registered Republicans had far higher excess-death rates than registered Democrats during the pandemic, with almost all of the gap coming after vaccines were available.

That's the trump influence because he was so dismissive of covid/recommended ivermectin and bleach and pushed the anti vaccine narrative which he knew his supporters would like.
despicable,  uneducated ignorant post .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 04, 2022, 03:36:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 04, 2022, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 04, 2022, 07:33:09 AM
New study of almost 600,000 deaths in Ohio and Florida shows that registered Republicans had far higher excess-death rates than registered Democrats during the pandemic, with almost all of the gap coming after vaccines were available.

That's the trump influence because he was so dismissive of covid/recommended ivermectin and bleach and pushed the anti vaccine narrative which he knew his supporters would like.
despicable,  uneducated ignorant post .

I've extrapolated from a scientific study to explain the much higher excess death rate among republicans. Have you got an alternative explanation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 04, 2022, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2022, 02:21:24 PM
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/ny-hotel-shooter-had-converted-fully-automatic-gun-materials-used-to-make-explosives-official/3890644/?amp

Insane.....I stayed at that hotel 2 weeks ago while visiting a client

Poor family. And not something you hear about often in the Hudson Valley.

WTF were they planning with the explosives?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 04, 2022, 06:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2022, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2022, 02:21:24 PM
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/ny-hotel-shooter-had-converted-fully-automatic-gun-materials-used-to-make-explosives-official/3890644/?amp

Insane.....I stayed at that hotel 2 weeks ago while visiting a client

Poor family. And not something you hear about often in the Hudson Valley.

WTF were they planning with the explosives?

It's a head scratcher

By no means a fancy hotel....just a business hotel on a busy road right next to a bunch of office parks

I'm sure it was booked out for parents weekend......how did 2 homeless yobos end up getting put up there?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 04, 2022, 06:42:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 04, 2022, 03:36:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 04, 2022, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 04, 2022, 07:33:09 AM
New study of almost 600,000 deaths in Ohio and Florida shows that registered Republicans had far higher excess-death rates than registered Democrats during the pandemic, with almost all of the gap coming after vaccines were available.

That's the trump influence because he was so dismissive of covid/recommended ivermectin and bleach and pushed the anti vaccine narrative which he knew his supporters would like.
despicable,  uneducated ignorant post .

I've extrapolated from a scientific study to explain the much higher excess death rate among republicans. Have you got an alternative explanation?
uneducated because the trump administration  were the ones who got operation warp speed up and running and got a vaccine out so fast and he constantly promotes it and boosters , I wouldn't touch it btw but I'm still alive . 94% of Floridians over 60 are vaccinated, 89%of Ohioans
Covid killed mostly old people who tend to be conservative or republican voters , you are insinuating they died from not taking the vaccine or drinking bleach , sick stuff.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 04, 2022, 07:15:07 PM
of course you are unvaccinated - says it all
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 04, 2022, 07:24:18 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 04, 2022, 07:15:07 PM
of course you are unvaccinated - says it all
thank you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 07:48:32 PM
Just spent the morning on the phone with immigration lawyers and the USCIS. My green card expired last year, but I had applied to renew it six months in advance. The previous administration defunded the USCIS as part of its attack on legal immigration. All green cards for which a renewal had been applied were automatically extended by 12 months. In my case that additional 12 months has expired. All such green cards have now been automatically extended for a further 12 months while the understaffed USCIS tries to deal with the backlog, but I now have to wait for them to call me back to get an appointment to go to the local office and get a stamp on my passport to allow me to travel.

Meanwhile, my dad's in the hospital and I'm worried that I might have to travel at short notice. What if something happens and they don't call me back in time? What if there's some other complication?

I know I come across as bitter sometimes on this thread, but the Rethuglicans and their vandalism and messing with people's lives has real-world consequences for real people. The "party of family values" loves to mess with families, break them up, interfere with their lives, and inflict as much misery on people as they can in order to satisfy their hateful base.

And they have the gall to proudly say "I hate liberals." I can assure you the feeling is mutual. I hate everything these fascist conservatives stand for. I hate their faces.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 04, 2022, 08:38:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 04, 2022, 06:42:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 04, 2022, 03:36:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 04, 2022, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 04, 2022, 07:33:09 AM
New study of almost 600,000 deaths in Ohio and Florida shows that registered Republicans had far higher excess-death rates than registered Democrats during the pandemic, with almost all of the gap coming after vaccines were available.

That's the trump influence because he was so dismissive of covid/recommended ivermectin and bleach and pushed the anti vaccine narrative which he knew his supporters would like.
despicable,  uneducated ignorant post .

I've extrapolated from a scientific study to explain the much higher excess death rate among republicans. Have you got an alternative explanation?
uneducated because the trump administration  were the ones who got operation warp speed up and running and got a vaccine out so fast and he constantly promotes it and boosters , I wouldn't touch it btw but I'm still alive . 94% of Floridians over 60 are vaccinated, 89%of Ohioans
Covid killed mostly old people who tend to be conservative or republican voters , you are insinuating they died from not taking the vaccine or drinking bleach , sick stuff.

The study took into account different age groups and in every age group excess death rate was much higher for republicans. There's still a high number of anti vaxxers out there and there is a huge overlap between them and the Qanon conspiracy theory crackpots. Trump fed all of that and still does because those people are vulnerable and he takes advantage. I would guess that many of the excess deaths could have been avoided with vaccines.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 09:05:41 PM
When covid first hit, Trump was calling it a "Democratic hoax."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 04, 2022, 09:22:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 09:05:41 PM
When covid first hit, Trump was calling it a "Democratic hoax."

As someone who clearly follows American politics closely, id have thought you would be more informed than this.

I am not a fan of the man but no, Trump did not call Coronavirus a hoax.

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/campaign-press-release-fact-check-president-trump-did-not-call-the-coronavirus-hoax  (https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/campaign-press-release-fact-check-president-trump-did-not-call-the-coronavirus-hoax)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 09:43:33 PM
"This is their new hoax"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 04, 2022, 10:01:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 09:43:33 PM
"This is their new hoax"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE)

It has been debunked, by every fact checking website on the Internet as I linked above. You have linked an edited out of context video that misrepresents what the intention was.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 04, 2022, 10:15:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 07:48:32 PM
Just spent the morning on the phone with immigration lawyers and the USCIS. My green card expired last year, but I had applied to renew it six months in advance. The previous administration defunded the USCIS as part of its attack on legal immigration. All green cards for which a renewal had been applied were automatically extended by 12 months. In my case that additional 12 months has expired. All such green cards have now been automatically extended for a further 12 months while the understaffed USCIS tries to deal with the backlog, but I now have to wait for them to call me back to get an appointment to go to the local office and get a stamp on my passport to allow me to travel.

Meanwhile, my dad's in the hospital and I'm worried that I might have to travel at short notice. What if something happens and they don't call me back in time? What if there's some other complication?

I know I come across as bitter sometimes on this thread, but the Rethuglicans and their vandalism and messing with people's lives has real-world consequences for real people. The "party of family values" loves to mess with families, break them up, interfere with their lives, and inflict as much misery on people as they can in order to satisfy their hateful base.

And they have the gall to proudly say "I hate liberals." I can assure you the feeling is mutual. I hate everything these fascist conservatives stand for. I hate their faces.
stop voting for democrats they are allowing millions of illegals into the country with California a main landing spot , do you think that or Covid could slow up the legal immigration process?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on October 05, 2022, 01:56:12 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 04, 2022, 10:01:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 09:43:33 PM
"This is their new hoax"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE)

It has been debunked, by every fact checking website on the Internet as I linked above. You have linked an edited out of context video that misrepresents what the intention was.
I should hope you apply fact checking more often, especially to every other claim and lies made by Trump. The number of fact checked lies expressed by Trump was estimated to be 35,000 by Jan 2021, that's over 20 daily.  Don't just fact check when it suits you ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 05, 2022, 08:13:16 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 05, 2022, 01:56:12 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 04, 2022, 10:01:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 09:43:33 PM
"This is their new hoax"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE)

It has been debunked, by every fact checking website on the Internet as I linked above. You have linked an edited out of context video that misrepresents what the intention was.
I should hope you apply fact checking more often, especially to every other claim and lies made by Trump. The number of fact checked lies expressed by Trump was estimated to be 35,000 by Jan 2021, that's over 20 daily.  Don't just fact check when it suits you ;D

Yes, I do. I hate ridiculous bias on both sides. The rigged election crap pushed by right wing media is also nonsense.

I have no interest in engaging in whataboutery and was just responding to the claim that had been made!  :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 05, 2022, 03:15:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 04, 2022, 10:15:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 07:48:32 PM
Just spent the morning on the phone with immigration lawyers and the USCIS. My green card expired last year, but I had applied to renew it six months in advance. The previous administration defunded the USCIS as part of its attack on legal immigration. All green cards for which a renewal had been applied were automatically extended by 12 months. In my case that additional 12 months has expired. All such green cards have now been automatically extended for a further 12 months while the understaffed USCIS tries to deal with the backlog, but I now have to wait for them to call me back to get an appointment to go to the local office and get a stamp on my passport to allow me to travel.

Meanwhile, my dad's in the hospital and I'm worried that I might have to travel at short notice. What if something happens and they don't call me back in time? What if there's some other complication?

I know I come across as bitter sometimes on this thread, but the Rethuglicans and their vandalism and messing with people's lives has real-world consequences for real people. The "party of family values" loves to mess with families, break them up, interfere with their lives, and inflict as much misery on people as they can in order to satisfy their hateful base.

And they have the gall to proudly say "I hate liberals." I can assure you the feeling is mutual. I hate everything these fascist conservatives stand for. I hate their faces.
stop voting for democrats they are allowing millions of illegals into the country with California a main landing spot , do you think that or Covid could slow up the legal immigration process?
sorry you can't vote , not a citizen.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2022, 06:48:02 AM
Well where do we start with this Herschel Walker character? Domestic violence accusations coming from multiple women, paid for at least one abortion for one of his GFs, has children to multiple women around the country, and now has the gall to run as an anti-abortion "family values" candidate for the GOP. Newt "serial adulterer" Gingrich obviously has a lot of sympathy for him.

Have we reached the bottom yet?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 06, 2022, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2022, 06:48:02 AM
Well where do we start with this Herschel Walker character? Domestic violence accusations coming from multiple women, paid for at least one abortion for one of his GFs, has children to multiple women around the country, and now has the gall to run as an anti-abortion "family values" candidate for the GOP. Newt "serial adulterer" Gingrich obviously has a lot of sympathy for him.

Have we reached the bottom yet?

I'm torn.

That seat shouldn't even be seriously competitive, so I'm pleased Warnock is in with a great shout of winning due to Walker being a certifiable MAGA loon.

On the other hand, we could also get another certifiable MAGA loon becoming a US Senator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 06, 2022, 05:50:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 07:48:32 PM
Just spent the morning on the phone with immigration lawyers and the USCIS. My green card expired last year, but I had applied to renew it six months in advance. The previous administration defunded the USCIS as part of its attack on legal immigration. All green cards for which a renewal had been applied were automatically extended by 12 months. In my case that additional 12 months has expired. All such green cards have now been automatically extended for a further 12 months while the understaffed USCIS tries to deal with the backlog, but I now have to wait for them to call me back to get an appointment to go to the local office and get a stamp on my passport to allow me to travel.

Meanwhile, my dad's in the hospital and I'm worried that I might have to travel at short notice. What if something happens and they don't call me back in time? What if there's some other complication?

I know I come across as bitter sometimes on this thread, but the Rethuglicans and their vandalism and messing with people's lives has real-world consequences for real people. The "party of family values" loves to mess with families, break them up, interfere with their lives, and inflict as much misery on people as they can in order to satisfy their hateful base.

And they have the gall to proudly say "I hate liberals." I can assure you the feeling is mutual. I hate everything these fascist conservatives stand for. I hate their faces.

Hope your auld fella recovers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2022, 08:22:41 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeaKeDRWAAEwqcI?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2022, 08:36:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 06, 2022, 05:50:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 04, 2022, 07:48:32 PM
Just spent the morning on the phone with immigration lawyers and the USCIS. My green card expired last year, but I had applied to renew it six months in advance. The previous administration defunded the USCIS as part of its attack on legal immigration. All green cards for which a renewal had been applied were automatically extended by 12 months. In my case that additional 12 months has expired. All such green cards have now been automatically extended for a further 12 months while the understaffed USCIS tries to deal with the backlog, but I now have to wait for them to call me back to get an appointment to go to the local office and get a stamp on my passport to allow me to travel.

Meanwhile, my dad's in the hospital and I'm worried that I might have to travel at short notice. What if something happens and they don't call me back in time? What if there's some other complication?

I know I come across as bitter sometimes on this thread, but the Rethuglicans and their vandalism and messing with people's lives has real-world consequences for real people. The "party of family values" loves to mess with families, break them up, interfere with their lives, and inflict as much misery on people as they can in order to satisfy their hateful base.

And they have the gall to proudly say "I hate liberals." I can assure you the feeling is mutual. I hate everything these fascist conservatives stand for. I hate their faces.

Hope your auld fella recovers.

Thanks. Seems like he's much better now and will be all right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 06, 2022, 09:40:04 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2022, 08:22:41 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeaKeDRWAAEwqcI?format=jpg&name=large)

Good news. Should free up space in prison for trump and his foot soldiers from the January 6 coup attempt.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 06, 2022, 10:00:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 06, 2022, 09:40:04 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2022, 08:22:41 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeaKeDRWAAEwqcI?format=jpg&name=large)

Good news. Should free up space in prison for trump and his foot soldiers from the January 6 coup attempt.

Great idea-get some additional voters free in time for Election Day
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 06, 2022, 11:50:56 PM
100% the right thing to do... Makes sense to get the extra votes too. Will they be out in time for midterms??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 07, 2022, 02:13:46 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 06, 2022, 11:50:56 PM
100% the right thing to do... Makes sense to get the extra votes too. Will they be out in time for midterms??

None of the people pardoned are currently in prison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 13, 2022, 10:05:49 PM
Joe trying to blackmail Saudi Arabia surely an impeachable offense ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 13, 2022, 10:55:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 13, 2022, 10:05:49 PM
Joe trying to blackmail Saudi Arabia surely an impeachable offense ?

And now (some) Democrats looking to halt arms sales to Saudi's Arabia

Wow......sounds very familiar
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2022, 08:30:45 PM
The people who told Kaepernick and Lebron to stick to sport aren't telling Kanye West to stick to music.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on October 18, 2022, 10:14:16 PM
So what? And the likes of you only cry about 'black lives matter', but don't care a bit about white lives. See? Sad.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 18, 2022, 11:49:07 PM
George Floyd's family suing Kanye west  for 250m
He gave 2m donation to floyds kids 2 years ago.
Don't think Kanye is all there to be honest but he's learning the hard way what opinions are ok and what are not . Dangerous slope we are on in this country
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2022, 02:05:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 18, 2022, 11:49:07 PM
George Floyd's family suing Kanye west  for 250m
He gave 2m donation to floyds kids 2 years ago.
Don't think Kanye is all there to be honest but he's learning the hard way what opinions are ok and what are not . Dangerous slope we are on in this country

What's the "opinion" in this case that's "not ok"?

Is it ok to run your mouth off in public talking shite about the cause of someone's death?

Alex Jones tried to profit off it and got a very costly and hopefully ruinous kick in the balls last week for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2022, 02:06:44 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 18, 2022, 10:14:16 PM
So what? And the likes of you only cry about 'black lives matter', but don't care a bit about white lives. See? Sad.

Huh?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 19, 2022, 02:35:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 02:05:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 18, 2022, 11:49:07 PM
George Floyd's family suing Kanye west  for 250m
He gave 2m donation to floyds kids 2 years ago.
Don't think Kanye is all there to be honest but he's learning the hard way what opinions are ok and what are not . Dangerous slope we are on in this country

What's the "opinion" in this case that's "not ok"?

Is it ok to run your mouth off in public talking shite about the cause of someone's death?

Alex Jones tried to profit off it and got a very costly and hopefully ruinous kick in the balls last week for it.
maybe he read the toxicology report ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2022, 10:45:21 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2022, 02:35:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 02:05:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 18, 2022, 11:49:07 PM
George Floyd's family suing Kanye west  for 250m
He gave 2m donation to floyds kids 2 years ago.
Don't think Kanye is all there to be honest but he's learning the hard way what opinions are ok and what are not . Dangerous slope we are on in this country

What's the "opinion" in this case that's "not ok"?

Is it ok to run your mouth off in public talking shite about the cause of someone's death?

Alex Jones tried to profit off it and got a very costly and hopefully ruinous kick in the balls last week for it.
maybe he read the toxicology report ?

So Kanye is a pathologist now?

How about loudmouth entitled gobshites who don't know what they're talking about leave the science and medicine to the people who do and stop hurting families for their own political and monetary gain?

And did he not also express the "opinion" that Chauvin didn't sit on Floyd's neck with his knee?

Someone should tell Chauvin's lawyers. They might get him off that 20 year sentence yet!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on October 19, 2022, 12:19:22 PM
Freedom of speech is a thing.... but so is slander/defamation.
Serious amount of money though, reminds me of the Nolan case a while back. Need to be careful what you say online. "Ye" should really know better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2022, 12:46:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 19, 2022, 12:19:22 PM
Freedom of speech is a thing.... but so is slander/defamation.
Serious amount of money though, reminds me of the Nolan case a while back. Need to be careful what you say online. "Ye" should really know better.

These suits always start with huge proposed damages fees though. Doesn't mean, if successful, it will ever end up with a number anywhere near that.

Maybe Kanye will have a bit of sense for once in his life, apologize, and it will go away. Or maybe he'll stay on the right wing resentment train. Might even end up making money after it all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 19, 2022, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

Haha

The Hispanics who are now voting Republican must be "white Hispanics"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2022, 03:37:01 PM
Anyone voting for the GOP is insane.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2022, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

I can't speak to Ireland or wherever you are, but the US right wing thrives on fear and resentment and grievance. Illegal immigrants, black "thugs", trans women, Democratic paedophiles, Mexican rapists, environazis, feminists, MS-13, they're all coming for you, and the great white replacement is underway to change US society. The election was stolen from Trump and Biden is not our legitimate president is an axiom in the current GOP (and part of their official platform in places); any election a MAGAt wins is fair, any they lose was stolen.

And there's nothing funny about it.


.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 19, 2022, 06:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

I can't speak to Ireland or wherever you are, but the US right wing thrives on fear and resentment and grievance. Illegal immigrants, black "thugs", trans women, Democratic paedophiles, Mexican rapists, environazis, feminists, MS-13, they're all coming for you, and the great white replacement is underway to change US society. The election was stolen from Trump and Biden is not our legitimate president is an axiom in the current GOP (and part of their official platform in places); any election a MAGAt wins is fair, any they lose was stolen.

And there's nothing funny about it.


.

What a pile of complete nonsense

So if you want immigration laws enforced and dangerous criminals deported you "fear and resent" illegal immigrants

Might want to tell this lady's family that one

https://www.foxla.com/news/las-vegas-strip-stabbing-what-we-know-about-the-suspect-reportedly-with-california-criminal-history.amp

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2022, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 06:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

I can't speak to Ireland or wherever you are, but the US right wing thrives on fear and resentment and grievance. Illegal immigrants, black "thugs", trans women, Democratic paedophiles, Mexican rapists, environazis, feminists, MS-13, they're all coming for you, and the great white replacement is underway to change US society. The election was stolen from Trump and Biden is not our legitimate president is an axiom in the current GOP (and part of their official platform in places); any election a MAGAt wins is fair, any they lose was stolen.

And there's nothing funny about it.


.

What a pile of complete nonsense

So if you want immigration laws enforced and dangerous criminals deported you "fear and resent" illegal immigrants

Might want to tell this lady's family that one

https://www.foxla.com/news/las-vegas-strip-stabbing-what-we-know-about-the-suspect-reportedly-with-california-criminal-history.amp

It's not complete nonsense and you know full well that the rabble rousing over immigration extends well beyond enforcing laws and deporting criminals. You're on record here a number of times rejecting the more extreme elements of GOP rhetoric and policy on it.

I do note you didn't find fault with the rest.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 19, 2022, 06:38:39 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!
the leaked audio of the la council meeting exposes what most of these clowns are really like , they care about themselves and their tribe and power  ,  nothing else . Democrats think they have a coalition of white liberals, lgbtq , African Americans, Latinos and illegal immigrants and the bottom the thing is they all hate each other . Bizarre
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 19, 2022, 07:39:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 06:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

I can't speak to Ireland or wherever you are, but the US right wing thrives on fear and resentment and grievance. Illegal immigrants, black "thugs", trans women, Democratic paedophiles, Mexican rapists, environazis, feminists, MS-13, they're all coming for you, and the great white replacement is underway to change US society. The election was stolen from Trump and Biden is not our legitimate president is an axiom in the current GOP (and part of their official platform in places); any election a MAGAt wins is fair, any they lose was stolen.

And there's nothing funny about it.


.

What a pile of complete nonsense

So if you want immigration laws enforced and dangerous criminals deported you "fear and resent" illegal immigrants

Might want to tell this lady's family that one

https://www.foxla.com/news/las-vegas-strip-stabbing-what-we-know-about-the-suspect-reportedly-with-california-criminal-history.amp

It's not complete nonsense and you know full well that the rabble rousing over immigration extends well beyond enforcing laws and deporting criminals. You're on record here a number of times rejecting the more extreme elements of GOP rhetoric and policy on it.

I do note you didn't find fault with the rest.


Do you think Illegals who commit violent crimes, drive drunk and deal drugs should be handed over to ICE by local law enforcement?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2022, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 07:39:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 06:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

I can't speak to Ireland or wherever you are, but the US right wing thrives on fear and resentment and grievance. Illegal immigrants, black "thugs", trans women, Democratic paedophiles, Mexican rapists, environazis, feminists, MS-13, they're all coming for you, and the great white replacement is underway to change US society. The election was stolen from Trump and Biden is not our legitimate president is an axiom in the current GOP (and part of their official platform in places); any election a MAGAt wins is fair, any they lose was stolen.

And there's nothing funny about it.


.

What a pile of complete nonsense

So if you want immigration laws enforced and dangerous criminals deported you "fear and resent" illegal immigrants

Might want to tell this lady's family that one

https://www.foxla.com/news/las-vegas-strip-stabbing-what-we-know-about-the-suspect-reportedly-with-california-criminal-history.amp

It's not complete nonsense and you know full well that the rabble rousing over immigration extends well beyond enforcing laws and deporting criminals. You're on record here a number of times rejecting the more extreme elements of GOP rhetoric and policy on it.

I do note you didn't find fault with the rest.


Do you think Illegals who commit violent crimes, drive drunk and deal drugs should be handed over to ICE by local law enforcement?

Christ, we've been over this multiple times in the past.

Yes, after you prosecute them, (if applicable) imprison them, then kick them the f**k out!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 19, 2022, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2022, 06:38:39 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!
the leaked audio of the la council meeting exposes what most of these clowns are really like , they care about themselves and their tribe and power  ,  nothing else . Democrats think they have a coalition of white liberals, lgbtq , African Americans, Latinos and illegal immigrants and the bottom the thing is they all hate each other . Bizarre

I don't know if you really want to be tarring or labelling everyone based on the attitudes or actions of a few. Especially when you're coming from the right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 19, 2022, 09:00:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 07:39:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 06:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

I can't speak to Ireland or wherever you are, but the US right wing thrives on fear and resentment and grievance. Illegal immigrants, black "thugs", trans women, Democratic paedophiles, Mexican rapists, environazis, feminists, MS-13, they're all coming for you, and the great white replacement is underway to change US society. The election was stolen from Trump and Biden is not our legitimate president is an axiom in the current GOP (and part of their official platform in places); any election a MAGAt wins is fair, any they lose was stolen.

And there's nothing funny about it.


.

What a pile of complete nonsense

So if you want immigration laws enforced and dangerous criminals deported you "fear and resent" illegal immigrants

Might want to tell this lady's family that one

https://www.foxla.com/news/las-vegas-strip-stabbing-what-we-know-about-the-suspect-reportedly-with-california-criminal-history.amp

It's not complete nonsense and you know full well that the rabble rousing over immigration extends well beyond enforcing laws and deporting criminals. You're on record here a number of times rejecting the more extreme elements of GOP rhetoric and policy on it.

I do note you didn't find fault with the rest.


Do you think Illegals who commit violent crimes, drive drunk and deal drugs should be handed over to ICE by local law enforcement?

Christ, we've been over this multiple times in the past.

Yes, after you prosecute them, (if applicable) imprison them, then kick them the f**k out!

How can they be prosecuted if local law enforcement are prohibited from handing them over to ICE and judges set them free on bail?


https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-judge-immigrant-escape-charges-dropped/2841861/?amp=1

"In her previous role as district attorney for Suffolk County, Rollins had been part of a lawsuit seeking to block federal authorities from making arrests at courthouses of people suspected of being in the country illegally."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2022, 09:35:42 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 18, 2022, 10:14:16 PM
So what? And the likes of you only cry about 'black lives matter', but don't care a bit about white lives. See? Sad.

What?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2022, 09:41:27 PM
"Compared to undocumented immigrants, U.S. citizens were twice as likely to be arrested for violent felonies in Texas from 2012 to 2018, two-and-a-half times more likely to be arrested for felony drug crimes, and over four times more likely to be arrested for felony property crimes, according to a study published by University of Wisconsin–Madison researchers today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."

Source: Undocumented immigrants far less likely to commit crimes in U.S. than citizens - University of Wisconsin-Madison (https://news.wisc.edu/undocumented-immigrants-far-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-in-u-s-than-citizens/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 19, 2022, 10:15:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 19, 2022, 09:41:27 PM
"Compared to undocumented immigrants, U.S. citizens were twice as likely to be arrested for violent felonies in Texas from 2012 to 2018, two-and-a-half times more likely to be arrested for felony drug crimes, and over four times more likely to be arrested for felony property crimes, according to a study published by University of Wisconsin–Madison researchers today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."

Source: Undocumented immigrants far less likely to commit crimes in U.S. than citizens - University of Wisconsin-Madison (https://news.wisc.edu/undocumented-immigrants-far-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-in-u-s-than-citizens/)

Yes-but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China

We can't deport citizens but we can and should deport criminal illegals.

Am I correct in assuming your against deporting criminal illegals?

(Drugs, violent crime, drunk driving-I'm not talking about jaywalkers)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 20, 2022, 12:33:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 10:45:21 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2022, 02:35:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 02:05:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 18, 2022, 11:49:07 PM
George Floyd's family suing Kanye west  for 250m
He gave 2m donation to floyds kids 2 years ago.
Don't think Kanye is all there to be honest but he's learning the hard way what opinions are ok and what are not . Dangerous slope we are on in this country

What's the "opinion" in this case that's "not ok"?

Is it ok to run your mouth off in public talking shite about the cause of someone's death?

Alex Jones tried to profit off it and got a very costly and hopefully ruinous kick in the balls last week for it.
maybe he read the toxicology report ?

So Kanye is a pathologist now?

How about loudmouth entitled gobshites who don't know what they're talking about leave the science and medicine to the people who do and stop hurting families for their own political and monetary gain?

And did he not also express the "opinion" that Chauvin didn't sit on Floyd's neck with his knee?

Someone should tell Chauvin's lawyers. They might get him off that 20 year sentence yet!
george had Covid and was not vaccinated either something deserving of death if you go back through the Covid thread , exclusively an opinion spouted by posters of the liberal persuasion.
A blight on society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 20, 2022, 12:50:15 AM
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/arizona-gop-candidate-arrested-allegedly-masturbating-truck_n_635007e2e4b03e8038da457f (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/arizona-gop-candidate-arrested-allegedly-masturbating-truck_n_635007e2e4b03e8038da457f)

Arizona GOP candidate who said he wanted "our children protected [from] the progressive left" was arrested for masturbating outside of a preschool

"I'm sorry. I fucked up. I'm really stressed."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 20, 2022, 02:49:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 09:00:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 07:39:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 06:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

I can't speak to Ireland or wherever you are, but the US right wing thrives on fear and resentment and grievance. Illegal immigrants, black "thugs", trans women, Democratic paedophiles, Mexican rapists, environazis, feminists, MS-13, they're all coming for you, and the great white replacement is underway to change US society. The election was stolen from Trump and Biden is not our legitimate president is an axiom in the current GOP (and part of their official platform in places); any election a MAGAt wins is fair, any they lose was stolen.

And there's nothing funny about it.


.

What a pile of complete nonsense

So if you want immigration laws enforced and dangerous criminals deported you "fear and resent" illegal immigrants

Might want to tell this lady's family that one

https://www.foxla.com/news/las-vegas-strip-stabbing-what-we-know-about-the-suspect-reportedly-with-california-criminal-history.amp

It's not complete nonsense and you know full well that the rabble rousing over immigration extends well beyond enforcing laws and deporting criminals. You're on record here a number of times rejecting the more extreme elements of GOP rhetoric and policy on it.

I do note you didn't find fault with the rest.


Do you think Illegals who commit violent crimes, drive drunk and deal drugs should be handed over to ICE by local law enforcement?

Christ, we've been over this multiple times in the past.

Yes, after you prosecute them, (if applicable) imprison them, then kick them the f**k out!

How can they be prosecuted if local law enforcement are prohibited from handing them over to ICE and judges set them free on bail?


https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-judge-immigrant-escape-charges-dropped/2841861/?amp=1

"In her previous role as district attorney for Suffolk County, Rollins had been part of a lawsuit seeking to block federal authorities from making arrests at courthouses of people suspected of being in the country illegally."
You were anecdotally funny one time. You are now joined at the hip with GMAC and his cohorts in your denial of reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2022, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 09:00:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 07:39:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 06:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

I can't speak to Ireland or wherever you are, but the US right wing thrives on fear and resentment and grievance. Illegal immigrants, black "thugs", trans women, Democratic paedophiles, Mexican rapists, environazis, feminists, MS-13, they're all coming for you, and the great white replacement is underway to change US society. The election was stolen from Trump and Biden is not our legitimate president is an axiom in the current GOP (and part of their official platform in places); any election a MAGAt wins is fair, any they lose was stolen.

And there's nothing funny about it.


.

What a pile of complete nonsense

So if you want immigration laws enforced and dangerous criminals deported you "fear and resent" illegal immigrants

Might want to tell this lady's family that one

https://www.foxla.com/news/las-vegas-strip-stabbing-what-we-know-about-the-suspect-reportedly-with-california-criminal-history.amp

It's not complete nonsense and you know full well that the rabble rousing over immigration extends well beyond enforcing laws and deporting criminals. You're on record here a number of times rejecting the more extreme elements of GOP rhetoric and policy on it.

I do note you didn't find fault with the rest.


Do you think Illegals who commit violent crimes, drive drunk and deal drugs should be handed over to ICE by local law enforcement?

Christ, we've been over this multiple times in the past.

Yes, after you prosecute them, (if applicable) imprison them, then kick them the f**k out!

How can they be prosecuted if local law enforcement are prohibited from handing them over to ICE and judges set them free on bail?


https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-judge-immigrant-escape-charges-dropped/2841861/?amp=1

"In her previous role as district attorney for Suffolk County, Rollins had been part of a lawsuit seeking to block federal authorities from making arrests at courthouses of people suspected of being in the country illegally."

Having sensible sanctuary policies in place is the answer.

Make it safe for illegals to engage and cooperate with the authorities without fear of being arrested and deported for offering a statement or making a victim complaint.

Deport the criminal ones after they serve their sentences.

I don't see why this has to be such a divisive issue. Both extremes are as bad and unrealistic as the other.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2022, 01:41:28 PM
So in the case I've highlighted you're okay with a judge letting a suspected drug dealer (with a outstanding ICE detainer) slip out the back door of the court house while the Immigration Officer was removed from the courtroom?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-judge/massachusetts-judge-faces-federal-charges-for-blocking-immigration-arrest-idUSKCN1S1260

Fair enough
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2022, 02:01:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2022, 01:41:28 PM
So in the case I've highlighted you're okay with a judge letting a suspected drug dealer (with a outstanding ICE detainer) slip out the back door of the court house while the Immigration Officer was removed from the courtroom?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-judge/massachusetts-judge-faces-federal-charges-for-blocking-immigration-arrest-idUSKCN1S1260

Fair enough

Your link said "drug possession", not dealing. It doesn't say what drugs or how much. Was he just smoking a joint? Feel free to provide that information.

That said, without knowing anything about his personal circumstances, I think he probably should have been handed over on the grounds that he had been deported twice before.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 20, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 20, 2022, 02:01:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 20, 2022, 01:41:28 PM
So in the case I've highlighted you're okay with a judge letting a suspected drug dealer (with a outstanding ICE detainer) slip out the back door of the court house while the Immigration Officer was removed from the courtroom?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-judge/massachusetts-judge-faces-federal-charges-for-blocking-immigration-arrest-idUSKCN1S1260

Fair enough

Your link said "drug possession", not dealing. It doesn't say what drugs or how much. Was he just smoking a joint? Feel free to provide that information.

That said, without knowing anything about his personal circumstances, I think he probably should have been handed over on the grounds that he had been deported twice before.

He was wanted on "drug charges" drunk driving and already twice deported.

https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/04/25/joseph-macgregor-obstruction-conspiracy-charges-ice

The defendant isn't named in the indictment, but has been previously identified as Jose Medina-Perez, 38, from the Dominican Republic. In April 2018, he was facing drug charges and a fugitive warrant out of Pennsylvania for drunken driving. Immigration officials say the defendant's real name is Oscar Manuel Peguero. According to Lelling's office, Peguero has been deported from the U.S. twice — in 2003 and 2007 — and a federal order had been issued prohibiting him from reentry until 2027

(Edit-I remember reading at the time it was drug dealing, but that may have been possession. Either way, the drunk driving and 2 prior deportations should have been enough for him to be handed over)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 20, 2022, 05:16:16 PM
Is there not enough home grown/resident lunatics, criminals, drug addicts in the USA  ?
Why should anyone tolerate any illegal behavior from someone who's first act entering the country was to break the law ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2022, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 20, 2022, 05:16:16 PM
Is there not enough home grown/resident lunatics, criminals, drug addicts in the USA  ?
Why should anyone tolerate any illegal behavior from someone who's first act entering the country was to break the law ?

I don't have much of an argument with that, except I wouldn't deport someone just because they got caught smoking a joint or going 12 mph over the speed limit.

Theft, DWI, assault, drug dealing, murder etc. - do your time and get the f**k out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 20, 2022, 11:44:17 PM
Quote from: omochain on October 20, 2022, 02:49:48 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 09:00:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 07:39:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 19, 2022, 06:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2022, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
Ha ha!! The "right wing resentment train"! The whole left ideology is based around resentment!!

I can't speak to Ireland or wherever you are, but the US right wing thrives on fear and resentment and grievance. Illegal immigrants, black "thugs", trans women, Democratic paedophiles, Mexican rapists, environazis, feminists, MS-13, they're all coming for you, and the great white replacement is underway to change US society. The election was stolen from Trump and Biden is not our legitimate president is an axiom in the current GOP (and part of their official platform in places); any election a MAGAt wins is fair, any they lose was stolen.

And there's nothing funny about it.


.

What a pile of complete nonsense

So if you want immigration laws enforced and dangerous criminals deported you "fear and resent" illegal immigrants

Might want to tell this lady's family that one

https://www.foxla.com/news/las-vegas-strip-stabbing-what-we-know-about-the-suspect-reportedly-with-california-criminal-history.amp

It's not complete nonsense and you know full well that the rabble rousing over immigration extends well beyond enforcing laws and deporting criminals. You're on record here a number of times rejecting the more extreme elements of GOP rhetoric and policy on it.

I do note you didn't find fault with the rest.


Do you think Illegals who commit violent crimes, drive drunk and deal drugs should be handed over to ICE by local law enforcement?

Christ, we've been over this multiple times in the past.

Yes, after you prosecute them, (if applicable) imprison them, then kick them the f**k out!

How can they be prosecuted if local law enforcement are prohibited from handing them over to ICE and judges set them free on bail?


https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-judge-immigrant-escape-charges-dropped/2841861/?amp=1

"In her previous role as district attorney for Suffolk County, Rollins had been part of a lawsuit seeking to block federal authorities from making arrests at courthouses of people suspected of being in the country illegally."
You were anecdotally funny one time. You are now joined at the hip with GMAC and his cohorts in your denial of reality.
living in California or Florida these days ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on October 22, 2022, 10:16:27 PM
In California. On the central coast, surrounded by cohorts of liberals and too much Pinot noir🙏
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 26, 2022, 03:56:03 AM
John fetterman making joe Biden look like Einstein wtf is this man doing running in a senate race .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 29, 2022, 01:37:00 AM
Serious incident with Pelosi husband by the look of it, media bullshit, trump lies, and conspiracy nutjon theories, over the election has lead to this. The dummies still don't realise that words can have consequences.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 29, 2022, 01:52:50 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 29, 2022, 01:37:00 AM
Serious incident with Pelosi husband by the look of it, media bullshit, trump lies, and conspiracy nutjon theories, over the election has lead to this. The dummies still don't realise that words can have consequences.

Still a lot of info to come out on this......but it sounds like he's just seriously deranged.

According to one report he's illegal/undocumented........and has had numerous run ins with the law........but given that San Francisco/California is a sanctuary city/state.......he was never handed over to ICE  for deportation.  If this is true, its a serious black eye for the Democrats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on October 29, 2022, 07:10:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 01:52:50 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 29, 2022, 01:37:00 AM
Serious incident with Pelosi husband by the look of it, media bullshit, trump lies, and conspiracy nutjon theories, over the election has lead to this. The dummies still don't realise that words can have consequences.

Still a lot of info to come out on this......but it sounds like he's just seriously deranged.

According to one report he's illegal/undocumented........and has had numerous run ins with the law........but given that San Francisco/California is a sanctuary city/state.......he was never handed over to ICE  for deportation.  If this is true, its a serious black eye for the Democrats

Trump has many supporters who are seriously deranged and the rhetoric of trump means that actions like this and the attempted coup on January 6 will continue to happen while trump is politically active.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on October 29, 2022, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 29, 2022, 07:10:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 01:52:50 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 29, 2022, 01:37:00 AM
Serious incident with Pelosi husband by the look of it, media bullshit, trump lies, and conspiracy nutjon theories, over the election has lead to this. The dummies still don't realise that words can have consequences.

Still a lot of info to come out on this......but it sounds like he's just seriously deranged.

According to one report he's illegal/undocumented........and has had numerous run ins with the law........but given that San Francisco/California is a sanctuary city/state.......he was never handed over to ICE  for deportation.  If this is true, its a serious black eye for the Democrats

Trump has many supporters who are seriously deranged and the rhetoric of trump means that actions like this and the attempted coup on January 6 will continue to happen while trump is politically active.

"Attempted coup"!! Ha ha!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 29, 2022, 09:46:49 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 29, 2022, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 29, 2022, 07:10:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 01:52:50 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 29, 2022, 01:37:00 AM
Serious incident with Pelosi husband by the look of it, media bullshit, trump lies, and conspiracy nutjon theories, over the election has lead to this. The dummies still don't realise that words can have consequences.

Still a lot of info to come out on this......but it sounds like he's just seriously deranged.

According to one report he's illegal/undocumented........and has had numerous run ins with the law........but given that San Francisco/California is a sanctuary city/state.......he was never handed over to ICE  for deportation.  If this is true, its a serious black eye for the Democrats

Trump has many supporters who are seriously deranged and the rhetoric of trump means that actions like this and the attempted coup on January 6 will continue to happen while trump is politically active.

"Attempted coup"!! Ha ha!

It didn't succeed, so it was, thankfully, only an attempt.

This time.

Next time out they may very well succeed with all of the lulas they're putting in place to "legally" thwart the decisions of the voters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 29, 2022, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/

Not defending extremist reaction on either side, but the fact is that one case was about Roe V Wade being struck down, a real actual event. Where's the truth in Trump and the GOP's "heads I win, tails you cheated" lies and action on elections?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 29, 2022, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/

Not defending extremist reaction on either side, but the fact is that one case was about Roe V Wade being struck down, a real actual event. Where's the truth in Trump and the GOP's "heads I win, tails you cheated" lies and action on elections?


Many, many high profile Democrats spent the 4 years prior to 2020 questioning the legitimacy of Trumps 2016 victory and subsequent presidency and all of a sudden are outraged when the Republicans adopt the same tactics

https://gop.com/research/over-150-examples-of-democrats-denying-election-results-rsr/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 29, 2022, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/

what were the reasons for the 27 opposing the bill?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 29, 2022, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 29, 2022, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/

what were the reasons for the 27 opposing the bill?

It's in the article
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 29, 2022, 01:26:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 29, 2022, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/

what were the reasons for the 27 opposing the bill?

It's in the article

I thought I missed something in the article as it differs to how you appear to be presenting it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 29, 2022, 02:15:49 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 29, 2022, 01:26:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 29, 2022, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/

what were the reasons for the 27 opposing the bill?

It's in the article

I thought I missed something in the article as it differs to how you appear to be presenting it.

The NJ contingent had a legitimate reason

The other high profile Democrats were playing politics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on October 29, 2022, 03:45:29 PM
Swinging hammers at 2-30am
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2022, 07:02:19 PM
The latest in violent right wing conservative nutjobbery: A deranged conservative terrorist broke into the home of Nancy Pelosi asking "where's Nancy?" and attacked her husband, Paul Pelosi, with a hammer. Mr Pelosi was left with a fractured skull.

Don Junior's response?

Tweets a picture of a hammer and underwear with the caption "Got my Paul Pelosi Halloween costume ready."

"The internet remains undefeated... Also if you switch out the hammer for a red feather boa you could be Hunter Biden in an instant."

The billionaire twerp Elon Musk decided to tweet that there might be "more to this story than meets the eye" after reading unfounded BS in the right wing BSosphere about the assailant dressed in underwear only, ergo it must have been Mr Pelosi's gay lover.

These people are unhinged and it's only going to get worse. Democratic politicians are going to have to ensure they have good security.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2022, 07:08:33 PM
From the LA Times:

'We are a tinderbox': Political violence is ramping up, experts warn
BY MELANIE MASON, DAVID LAUTER
OCT. 30, 2022 6 AM PT

In San Francisco's tony Pacific Heights neighborhood, an intruder broke into House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's home and violently attacked her husband. In a New York courtroom, a man pleaded guilty to threatening to kill California Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell. In Washington, federal law enforcement warned that violent domestic extremism posed an elevated threat in the approaching midterm election.

All on the same day.

The targeting of the home of Speaker Pelosi, a Democrat who is second in line for the presidency, stood out on Friday for its brutality and sinister intent. But for many Americans, shock was tinged with a weary sense of inevitability. Far from a freak occurrence, the attack felt of a piece with the other threats and warnings publicized that day — the latest additions to the country's growing sense of political menace, especially from the far right.

"Unfortunately, this is a continuation of at least a 2½-year-long established pattern of violence against elected officials and local officials, including poll workers, that has been steadily ramping up," said Erica Chenoweth, a Harvard Kennedy School professor who studies political violence.

Politically motivated violence has ebbed and flowed throughout U.S. history. Currently, America is going through an upsurge in right-wing violence, according to researchers who track attacks and other incidents. They say today's climate is comparable to that in the mid-1990s, when a similar wave of right-wing violence culminated in the 1995 bombing of the federal office building in Oklahoma City, which killed 168 people.

Incidents now range from the unprecedented — the Jan. 6, 2021, siege of the U.S. Capitol by supporters of President Trump who were trying to overturn his loss in the 2020 presidential election — to the more quotidian malice of telephone and email death threats.

There were 9,625 threats against members of Congress and their families last year, according to the Capitol Police — more than twice as many as in 2017. A joint project by the Anti-Defamation League and Princeton University tracked 400 incidents of harassment against local-level election, health and education officials in 43 states from January 2020 until mid-September this year.

The Nov. 8 midterm election is rife with potential targets for violence. In several parts of the country, right-wing organizations have mobilized poll watchers, who in some cases have confronted early voters. Members of one Arizona-based group, some in tactical gear, took photos of voters' license plates at ballot drop boxes in the Phoenix area; a federal judge on Friday rejected a request to ban the observers' activities, saying the 1st Amendment protected their right to assemble in public areas.

The cumulative effect of these incidents is a bleaker national mood, polls show. In a YouGov poll in August, a strong majority of respondents said they believed political violence would increase in the coming years, and over half thought America would be less of a democracy a generation from now.

Over 40% of Americans think civil war is at least somewhat likely within the next decade, another YouGov poll that month indicated. One in five people who identified as strong Republicans said they believe civil war is very likely — more than any other political group.

The unsettled atmosphere "tends to influence what I call the signals among the noise — the very few individuals who are not just talking, but are going to take action and are going to be politically violent," said Reid Meloy, a forensic psychologist who has worked as a consultant to the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit. "Our work has been to focus on how do we detect the signals amid the noise."

Over the last decade, politically motivated extremists, a majority of them right-wing, have killed over 400 people in the U.S., according to the Anti-Defamation League, which has tracked domestic political violence for 15 years. In 2021, political violence resulted in 29 deaths, according to the ADL's most recent report.

The Center for Strategic and International Studies, which also tracks extremist violence, found that 2020 and 2021 had the most attacks since it began tracking incidents in 1994.

There was "a historically high level of both far-right and far-left terrorist attacks in 2021," the bipartisan think tank's researchers said, adding that "violent far-right incidents were significantly more likely to be lethal, both in terms of weapon choice and number of resulting fatalities."

Robert Pape, a University of Chicago political scientist, likened the nation to a landscape full of flammable hazards during wildfire season.

"That combustible material doesn't go off spontaneously — you need a lightning strike or cigar butt to trigger it," Pape said.

"We are a tinderbox right now. ... The difference between the right and the left is you are getting lightning strikes on the right," he continued. "It is just happening again and again."

The "lightning strikes," Pape said, are messages, explicit or implied, from prominent Republican politicians or media figures who use incendiary rhetoric and winking nods to conspiracy theories to stoke animosity against their ideological opponents.

Animus against Republicans has also led to danger and bloodshed. Louisiana Rep. Steve Scalise, the third-ranking House Republican, was gravely wounded in 2017 when a gunman opened fire at a practice for the GOP's congressional baseball team. And in June, a California man armed with a pistol, a knife and tactical gear was arrested outside conservative Supreme Court Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh's Maryland home; the man now faces charges of attempted murder.

Though some Democrats have been criticized for provocative language — Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer warning conservative justices that they had "released the whirlwind" after they overturned Roe vs. Wade, for example — Pape said the party as a whole, especially President Biden, has been more forceful than Republicans in renouncing extremist rhetoric and actions.

"It's one thing to condemn the violence," Biden told reporters Saturday after he cast his ballot early in Delaware. "But you can't condemn the violence unless you condemn those people who are arguing that the election is not real. ... The talk has to stop. That's the problem."

Republicans who said they strongly or very strongly believed that the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden is an illegitimate president — about 15% of the population — were "substantially more likely than others to consider violence usually or always justified" to achieve certain goals, according to a study by the Violence Prevention Research Program at UC Davis.

But there is some reason for optimism, according to recent research by the Chicago Project on Security and Threats, which Pape directs. The share of Trump supporters who think the use of force is justified to restore him to the presidency declined by 33% between April and September this year — a shift to roughly 13 million Americans justifying violence, down from 21 million.

The decline occurred over a period marked by several high-profile acts of ideological violence. Those included a mass shooting at a supermarket in Buffalo, N.Y., by a believer in the racist "Great Replacement" conspiracy theory who targeted Black shoppers; and an armed Trump supporter's attempted attack on an FBI field office in Cincinnati a few days after agents searched the former president's Mar-a-Lago estate for improperly retained classified documents.

The summer also saw concerted efforts to draw attention to the rising threat of political violence. The congressional hearings on the Jan. 6 insurrection publicly explored the extent of the violence that day, as well as the extensive lies by Trump and his allies about election fraud. And Biden dedicated an entire speech in Philadelphia to warning of peril to democracy.

The idea that political violence is inevitable "is wrong," Pape said. "Naming and shaming, as has been done by the Jan. 6 committee and President Biden's speeches, are likely diminishing support for violence. But we have a long way to go."

Illinois Rep. Adam Kinzinger, a Republican who sits on the Jan. 6 panel, said Friday that the attack on Pelosi's husband was a consequence of right-wing conspiracy theories.

"When you convince people that politicians are rigging elections, drink babies' blood, etc., you will get violence. This must be rejected," he wrote on Twitter.

And GOP Sen. Ben Sasse of Nebraska described the dynamic as "increasingly obvious: Disturbed individuals will easily succumb to conspiracy theories and rage — the consequences are bloody and un-American."

Both men are stepping down from Congress.

Most GOP officials denounced Friday's attack and offered thoughts and prayers without commenting on the broader political context.

The power of partisan reflexes was on display when Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin, a Republican, appeared to make light of the incident just hours after news of the assault broke.

"There's no room for violence anywhere, but we're going to send [Speaker Pelosi] back to be with him in California," Youngkin said while campaigning for a GOP congressional candidate. His audience cheered.

The polarized reactions extended to partisan media. While mainstream and left-leaning outlets reported on radicalization on the right, conservative outlets such as Fox News painted the assault as evidence of out-of-control crime.

In one segment, Fox News host Laura Ingraham fretted that a "lone lunatic" would be used as justification to "silence conservative speech." Her guest Kari Lake, the Republican candidate for Arizona governor, assured her that voters would see the incident as the fault of "leftist elected officials who have not enforced the laws."

"The basic understanding about the context we're living in ... is literally worlds apart," said Chenoweth.

The Harvard political scientist said that bridging that divide will take time and deliberate effort, noting that research has shown that public figures using their platforms to condemn extremism and false conspiracy theories makes a difference.

"What we are experiencing is a democracy problem," Chenoweth said. "The thing that could really help our democracy problem right now is for all our leaders, including our Republican leaders, to say over and over that this stuff has to stop."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2022, 07:10:41 PM
I challenge the conservative commentators on this forum to condemn this violence. No whatabouts, no ifs, no buts, no trying to turn it around into a jibe about whatever minority they're trying to blame this one on. Just condemn it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on October 31, 2022, 07:25:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2022, 07:10:41 PM
I challenge the conservative commentators on this forum to condemn this violence. No whatabouts, no ifs, no buts, no trying to turn it around into a jibe about whatever minority they're trying to blame this one on. Just condemn it.

I completely condemn it!

Now will you condemn Chuck Schumer for threatening 2 Supreme Court justices by name, (one of who had an armed person drive across the country and show up at his house to kill him)

Will you condemn AOC and other member of the squad for voting against a bill that would have provided around the clock protection for Supreme Court justices and their families
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2022, 09:50:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/

Not defending extremist reaction on either side, but the fact is that one case was about Roe V Wade being struck down, a real actual event. Where's the truth in Trump and the GOP's "heads I win, tails you cheated" lies and action on elections?


Many, many high profile Democrats spent the 4 years prior to 2020 questioning the legitimacy of Trumps 2016 victory and subsequent presidency and all of a sudden are outraged when the Republicans adopt the same tactics

https://gop.com/research/over-150-examples-of-democrats-denying-election-results-rsr/

Ah yes, the classic bad faith whitey false equivalence bullshit.

Go ahead and show us where Democrats fomented a violent attack on the Capitol in an attempt to thwart the transfer of power. Show us where they spent months trying to undermine faith in the election beforehand and years since using ludicrous, easily debunked fairy tales they wouldn't dare use in a court room. Go ahead and show us where the majority of their members refused to certify the election in what has always otherwise been a rubber stamping exercise. Go ahead and show us Democratic state platforms do not recognize the sitting president as legitimate. Go ahead and show us where Democrats are putting people into position to cancel the will of the people in future elections.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2022, 09:52:16 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2022, 03:45:29 PM
Swinging hammers at 2-30am

Yeah, should have known the resident genius would be pushing this one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2022, 07:02:19 PM
The latest in violent right wing conservative nutjobbery: A deranged conservative terrorist broke into the home of Nancy Pelosi asking "where's Nancy?" and attacked her husband, Paul Pelosi, with a hammer. Mr Pelosi was left with a fractured skull.

Don Junior's response?

Tweets a picture of a hammer and underwear with the caption "Got my Paul Pelosi Halloween costume ready."

"The internet remains undefeated... Also if you switch out the hammer for a red feather boa you could be Hunter Biden in an instant."

The billionaire twerp Elon Musk decided to tweet that there might be "more to this story than meets the eye" after reading unfounded BS in the right wing BSosphere about the assailant dressed in underwear only, ergo it must have been Mr Pelosi's gay lover.

These people are unhinged and it's only going to get worse. Democratic politicians are going to have to ensure they have good security.

Class acts, the lot of them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 01, 2022, 10:15:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2022, 09:50:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/

Not defending extremist reaction on either side, but the fact is that one case was about Roe V Wade being struck down, a real actual event. Where's the truth in Trump and the GOP's "heads I win, tails you cheated" lies and action on elections?


Many, many high profile Democrats spent the 4 years prior to 2020 questioning the legitimacy of Trumps 2016 victory and subsequent presidency and all of a sudden are outraged when the Republicans adopt the same tactics

https://gop.com/research/over-150-examples-of-democrats-denying-election-results-rsr/

Ah yes, the classic bad faith whitey false equivalence bullshit.

Go ahead and show us where Democrats fomented a violent attack on the Capitol in an attempt to thwart the transfer of power. Show us where they spent months trying to undermine faith in the election beforehand and years since using ludicrous, easily debunked fairy tales they wouldn't dare use in a court room. Go ahead and show us where the majority of their members refused to certify the election in what has always otherwise been a rubber stamping exercise. Go ahead and show us Democratic state platforms do not recognize the sitting president as legitimate. Go ahead and show us where Democrats are putting people into position to cancel the will of the people in future elections.

Democrats fomented a gun attack on the entire Republican congressional delegation

Chuck Schumer fomented the attempted assassination of a conservative Supreme Court justice
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2022, 11:31:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 01, 2022, 10:15:11 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2022, 09:50:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 29, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/federal-judge-allows-activists-to-stake-out-ballot-boxes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur


This is all totally normal ... 😳

Someone is going to end up getting killed when an interaction with one of these thugs gets out of hand.

Trump has done such damage to this country, all in service of his massive, but fragile, ego.

Yes.....a would be assassin showed up at the door of a conservative Supreme Court Justice having driven 3000 miles across the country stoked by rage and lies ginned up by the left.

Even more outrageous is the fact 27 members of the Democratic Party voted against a bill offering SJC justices round the clock protection including AOC who was front and center in leading the outrage about the Pelosi attack

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3523572-these-are-the-27-house-democrats-who-opposed-a-bill-expanding-security-for-supreme-court-families/amp/

Not defending extremist reaction on either side, but the fact is that one case was about Roe V Wade being struck down, a real actual event. Where's the truth in Trump and the GOP's "heads I win, tails you cheated" lies and action on elections?


Many, many high profile Democrats spent the 4 years prior to 2020 questioning the legitimacy of Trumps 2016 victory and subsequent presidency and all of a sudden are outraged when the Republicans adopt the same tactics

https://gop.com/research/over-150-examples-of-democrats-denying-election-results-rsr/

Ah yes, the classic bad faith whitey false equivalence bullshit.

Go ahead and show us where Democrats fomented a violent attack on the Capitol in an attempt to thwart the transfer of power. Show us where they spent months trying to undermine faith in the election beforehand and years since using ludicrous, easily debunked fairy tales they wouldn't dare use in a court room. Go ahead and show us where the majority of their members refused to certify the election in what has always otherwise been a rubber stamping exercise. Go ahead and show us Democratic state platforms do not recognize the sitting president as legitimate. Go ahead and show us where Democrats are putting people into position to cancel the will of the people in future elections.

Democrats fomented a gun attack on the entire Republican congressional delegation

Chuck Schumer fomented the attempted assassination of a conservative Supreme Court justice

More false equivalency and mental gymnastics.

Schumer's statement, which he retracted the very next day, came two years before the attempt on Kavanaugh. Which has been pointed out to you by myself on a previous occasion.

Have the GOP or Trump retracted ANY of their lies and bullshit about elections and a whole lot of other stuff?

And how did the Dems foment the headcase who shot up the baseball game?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 01, 2022, 12:27:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2022, 07:02:19 PM
The latest in violent right wing conservative nutjobbery: A deranged conservative terrorist broke into the home of Nancy Pelosi asking "where's Nancy?" and attacked her husband, Paul Pelosi, with a hammer. Mr Pelosi was left with a fractured skull.

Don Junior's response?

Tweets a picture of a hammer and underwear with the caption "Got my Paul Pelosi Halloween costume ready."

"The internet remains undefeated... Also if you switch out the hammer for a red feather boa you could be Hunter Biden in an instant."

The billionaire twerp Elon Musk decided to tweet that there might be "more to this story than meets the eye" after reading unfounded BS in the right wing BSosphere about the assailant dressed in underwear only, ergo it must have been Mr Pelosi's gay lover.

These people are unhinged and it's only going to get worse. Democratic politicians are going to have to ensure they have good security.

Class acts, the lot of them.
a nudist pot smoking hippie who lives in a Berkeley half way house is a right wing nut job ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2022, 03:12:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2022, 12:27:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2022, 07:02:19 PM
The latest in violent right wing conservative nutjobbery: A deranged conservative terrorist broke into the home of Nancy Pelosi asking "where's Nancy?" and attacked her husband, Paul Pelosi, with a hammer. Mr Pelosi was left with a fractured skull.

Don Junior's response?

Tweets a picture of a hammer and underwear with the caption "Got my Paul Pelosi Halloween costume ready."

"The internet remains undefeated... Also if you switch out the hammer for a red feather boa you could be Hunter Biden in an instant."

The billionaire twerp Elon Musk decided to tweet that there might be "more to this story than meets the eye" after reading unfounded BS in the right wing BSosphere about the assailant dressed in underwear only, ergo it must have been Mr Pelosi's gay lover.

These people are unhinged and it's only going to get worse. Democratic politicians are going to have to ensure they have good security.

Class acts, the lot of them.
a nudist pot smoking hippie who lives in a Berkeley half way house is a right wing nut job ?

Where does the QAnon/ "where's Nancy" Jan 6 stuff and his stated plans to kneecap her for "Democratic lies" fit in your analysis?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 01, 2022, 03:25:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2022, 03:12:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2022, 12:27:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2022, 07:02:19 PM
The latest in violent right wing conservative nutjobbery: A deranged conservative terrorist broke into the home of Nancy Pelosi asking "where's Nancy?" and attacked her husband, Paul Pelosi, with a hammer. Mr Pelosi was left with a fractured skull.

Don Junior's response?

Tweets a picture of a hammer and underwear with the caption "Got my Paul Pelosi Halloween costume ready."

"The internet remains undefeated... Also if you switch out the hammer for a red feather boa you could be Hunter Biden in an instant."

The billionaire twerp Elon Musk decided to tweet that there might be "more to this story than meets the eye" after reading unfounded BS in the right wing BSosphere about the assailant dressed in underwear only, ergo it must have been Mr Pelosi's gay lover.

These people are unhinged and it's only going to get worse. Democratic politicians are going to have to ensure they have good security.

Class acts, the lot of them.
a nudist pot smoking hippie who lives in a Berkeley half way house is a right wing nut job ?

Where does the QAnon/ "where's Nancy" Jan 6 stuff and his stated plans to kneecap her for "Democratic lies" fit in your analysis?

J70

I don't deny that decisive rhetoric is driving people to commit violent actions

But I won't sit back and listen to a lecture from you that this is a one way street and that it's only republicans who are responsible for this divisiveness

The Democrats rhetoric has driven their supporters to extreme actions-Zelden got attacked on stage with a knife. I think a Desantis supporter had his skull fractured over the weekend. A teenager got
Murdered by a Democrat out west somewhere in a political spat

So fire all the rocks you want at Republicans but get down off your high horse when a few get fired back at you



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2022, 04:32:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 01, 2022, 03:25:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2022, 03:12:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2022, 12:27:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 31, 2022, 07:02:19 PM
The latest in violent right wing conservative nutjobbery: A deranged conservative terrorist broke into the home of Nancy Pelosi asking "where's Nancy?" and attacked her husband, Paul Pelosi, with a hammer. Mr Pelosi was left with a fractured skull.

Don Junior's response?

Tweets a picture of a hammer and underwear with the caption "Got my Paul Pelosi Halloween costume ready."

"The internet remains undefeated... Also if you switch out the hammer for a red feather boa you could be Hunter Biden in an instant."

The billionaire twerp Elon Musk decided to tweet that there might be "more to this story than meets the eye" after reading unfounded BS in the right wing BSosphere about the assailant dressed in underwear only, ergo it must have been Mr Pelosi's gay lover.

These people are unhinged and it's only going to get worse. Democratic politicians are going to have to ensure they have good security.

Class acts, the lot of them.
a nudist pot smoking hippie who lives in a Berkeley half way house is a right wing nut job ?

Where does the QAnon/ "where's Nancy" Jan 6 stuff and his stated plans to kneecap her for "Democratic lies" fit in your analysis?

J70

I don't deny that decisive rhetoric is driving people to commit violent actions

But I won't sit back and listen to a lecture from you that this is a one way street and that it's only republicans who are responsible for this divisiveness

The Democrats rhetoric has driven their supporters to extreme actions-Zelden got attacked on stage with a knife. I think a Desantis supporter had his skull fractured over the weekend. A teenager got
Murdered by a Democrat out west somewhere in a political spat

So fire all the rocks you want at Republicans but get down off your high horse when a few get fired back at you

What Democratic rhetoric are you talking about?

There are always going to be headcases on either side who take things in a violent or murderous direction.

You used to have anti-abortion zealots who would threaten or even murder clinic staff and doctors. They of course belonged in prison or worse for their actions, but at least their motivation and zealotry was coming from something based in truth, whether you agreed with their opinion on the extreme immorality of abortion or not.

Ecowarriors 20 years ago used to burn down housing developments in wild areas. Again, they belonged in prison, but at least their positions were based on something factual, even if their solution was extremist.

But the GOP is today peddling patently false nonsense about elections (among other things), riling up its supporters and threatening the very operation of American democracy, and has become a party and movement that is little more than a personality cult.

THAT is where the difference lies.

Its not my problem if you can't accept it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 01, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
LOL

Do you ever take a step back and actually listen to what you're saying

"Peddling patently false nonsense about elections"-ever hear of the Russian Collusion hoax?

Ever hear about a campaign that was wiretapped using fraudulent warrants?

I have to give it to you for neck



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 01, 2022, 06:41:15 PM
QuoteDo you ever take a step back and actually listen to what you're saying


(http://badbooksgoodtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/self-awareness-gif.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2022, 10:06:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 01, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
LOL

Do you ever take a step back and actually listen to what you're saying

"Peddling patently false nonsense about elections"-ever hear of the Russian Collusion hoax?

Ever hear about a campaign that was wiretapped using fraudulent warrants?

I have to give it to you for neck

So you've changed from the Russia hoax to the Russia Collusion Hoax??

1.   The government, including the Republican-led Senate, confirmed that the Russians had interfered. The only question was whether Trump and/or his campaign had actually colluded with them. It was absolutely in the public interest that this was something that needed to be investigated. There is simply no equivalence between this and the bullshit, baseless, Trump-ego-serving election fraud lies.

2.   If the Russia Collusion Hoax was such a hoax, why did Trump obstruct and use the promise of pardons to impede the investigation? Why were Fox News going nuts for months warning him about a "perjury trap" were he to testify? Why was Roger Stone, part of his campaign, working with them and Wikileaks to get the emails? Why was Donnie Jr meeting with the Russians in Trump Tower in the hopes of getting dirt? Why has Trump bent over backwards to cravenly deny every legitimate  allegation brought up against Putin? What about Manafort, another one of his campaign managers?

3.   How is the Durham investigation going? You were very excited about it for a while there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff


Edit-this clip includes Democrats also questioning the 2000 election

https://gop.com/video/hypocrites-3-minutes-of-democrats-calling-elections-stolen-illegitimate-and-not-fair/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on November 02, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Genuine question for someone not US based - what have the Democrats done that is as bad as the Capitol Hill coup?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 02, 2022, 10:58:28 AM
I don't know why some posters even bother messaging on a gaa board, there some posters here ont even comment on any other topic, which makes me wonder how they ended up on here in the first place. Trump lies remind me of the Dup up here, pedal lies and the gullible believe it, no matter the lack of proof. Still can't understand why he not been charged for inciting a riot leading to the death of people,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2022, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Yet Hillary conceded the election the morning after. Al Gore did so very quickly when he came out the wrong side of an ultra partisan Supreme Court decision in 2000. John Kerry conceded immediately in 2004 despite some cries about fraud in Ohio.

Has Trump conceded yet? Has the Texas GOP removed their statement that Biden was not legitimately elected from the party platform yet? Have the literal hundreds of GOP candidates running this year on election and Biden denialism repudiated their positions in the last few days? Have the majority of House GOP representatives who voted not to recognize the election on the very evening of January 6th 2020 changed their positions?

Your standard attempts at false equivalency don't work this time either.

And sure you're not a Republican anyway whitey, so why are you so desperate to deflect from the authoritarian, anti-democracy rabble they've descended into?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2022, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: blasmere on November 02, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Genuine question for someone not US based - what have the Democrats done that is as bad as the Capitol Hill coup?

Nothing-nothing comes close. And the Capitol police should have started shooting them from the get go
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2022, 12:24:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Yet Hillary conceded the election the morning after. Al Gore did so very quickly when he came out the wrong side of an ultra partisan Supreme Court decision in 2000. John Kerry conceded immediately in 2004 despite some cries about fraud in Ohio.

Has Trump conceded yet? Has the Texas GOP removed their statement that Biden was not legitimately elected from the party platform yet? Have the literal hundreds of GOP candidates running this year on election and Biden denialism repudiated their positions in the last few days? Have the majority of House GOP representatives who voted not to recognize the election on the very evening of January 6th 2020 changed their positions?

Your standard attempts at false equivalency don't work this time either.

And sure you're not a Republican anyway whitey, so why are you so desperate to deflect from the authoritarian, anti-democracy rabble they've descended into?

Conceded the election - and then spent 4 years saying his victory and presidency was illegitimate

https://youtu.be/iO-Sw8CCxxY


Did she have her fingers crossed when she conceded?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 02, 2022, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: blasmere on November 02, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Genuine question for someone not US based - what have the Democrats done that is as bad as the Capitol Hill coup?
the civil war ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2022, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 12:24:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Yet Hillary conceded the election the morning after. Al Gore did so very quickly when he came out the wrong side of an ultra partisan Supreme Court decision in 2000. John Kerry conceded immediately in 2004 despite some cries about fraud in Ohio.

Has Trump conceded yet? Has the Texas GOP removed their statement that Biden was not legitimately elected from the party platform yet? Have the literal hundreds of GOP candidates running this year on election and Biden denialism repudiated their positions in the last few days? Have the majority of House GOP representatives who voted not to recognize the election on the very evening of January 6th 2020 changed their positions?

Your standard attempts at false equivalency don't work this time either.

And sure you're not a Republican anyway whitey, so why are you so desperate to deflect from the authoritarian, anti-democracy rabble they've descended into?

Conceded the election - and then spent 4 years saying his victory and presidency was illegitimate

https://youtu.be/iO-Sw8CCxxY


Did she have her fingers crossed when she conceded?

She was a sore loser in her statements for sure, but so what? And its not like Hillary has kept a high profile.

Regardless, she wasn't out there filing dozens of spurious lawsuits for show and publicity (and to cash in).
She wasn't engaging in an endless public barrage of propaganda, which continues to this day, alleging that she was cheated out of the election.
She wasn't making phone calls to state officials asking them to "find" enough "votes" to tip a state her way.
She wasn't de facto head of the Democratic Party and intent, successfully so, in turning the whole party and movement into a vehicle for her own personal grievances and her inability to cope with losing a democratic election.
She didn't incite a violent assault and riot on the Capitol Building on the day the 2016 election was being certified.
The Democratic Party does not use personal loyalty to her as a litmus test.
The Democratic Party does use the rejection of normal electoral processes as a litmus test.
The Democratic Party is not out there, based on Hillary's bruised ego, putting structures in place to allow them to overturn the will of the people (as expressed at the ballot box) of their own states.
The Democratic Party did not put in their policy platform that Donald Trump was an illegitimate president elected through a fraudulent process.
The Democratic Party does not have gubernatorial (and other) candidates out there stating that they will not concede any election they lose.
I could go on...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on November 02, 2022, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: blasmere on November 02, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Genuine question for someone not US based - what have the Democrats done that is as bad as the Capitol Hill coup?

Black Lives Matter?

And just because the media wants to use the term 'coup' to discredit Trump, it doesn't mean it was actually an 'attempted coup'. Y'know, even if the crowd had occupied the Capitol - then what? Had they people in the army ready to back them? No, there was no strategy: it was just a heap of protesters who gained easy access to the building, probably let in pretty soft so as it could be used as a stick to beat Trump with.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2022, 01:59:38 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 02, 2022, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: blasmere on November 02, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Genuine question for someone not US based - what have the Democrats done that is as bad as the Capitol Hill coup?

Black Lives Matter?

And just because the media wants to use the term 'coup' to discredit Trump, it doesn't mean it was actually an 'attempted coup'. Y'know, even if the crowd had occupied the Capitol - then what? Had they people in the army ready to back them? No, there was no strategy: it was just a heap of protesters who gained easy access to the building, probably let in pretty soft so as it could be used as a stick to beat Trump with.

That's a new one! ;D

And a bungled, incompetent coup attempt is still a coup attempt.

Trump was trying to prevent the peaceful handover of power. End of.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2022, 02:01:16 PM
And since when is Black Lives Matter a Democratic Party organization or movement?

By that standard, sure the KKK and Proud Boys are wings of the official GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2022, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 12:24:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Yet Hillary conceded the election the morning after. Al Gore did so very quickly when he came out the wrong side of an ultra partisan Supreme Court decision in 2000. John Kerry conceded immediately in 2004 despite some cries about fraud in Ohio.

Has Trump conceded yet? Has the Texas GOP removed their statement that Biden was not legitimately elected from the party platform yet? Have the literal hundreds of GOP candidates running this year on election and Biden denialism repudiated their positions in the last few days? Have the majority of House GOP representatives who voted not to recognize the election on the very evening of January 6th 2020 changed their positions?

Your standard attempts at false equivalency don't work this time either.

And sure you're not a Republican anyway whitey, so why are you so desperate to deflect from the authoritarian, anti-democracy rabble they've descended into?

Conceded the election - and then spent 4 years saying his victory and presidency was illegitimate

https://youtu.be/iO-Sw8CCxxY


Did she have her fingers crossed when she conceded?

She was a sore loser in her statements for sure, but so what? And its not like Hillary has kept a high profile.

Regardless, she wasn't out there filing dozens of spurious lawsuits for show and publicity (and to cash in).
She wasn't engaging in an endless public barrage of propaganda, which continues to this day, alleging that she was cheated out of the election.
She wasn't making phone calls to state officials asking them to "find" enough "votes" to tip a state her way.
She wasn't de facto head of the Democratic Party and intent, successfully so, in turning the whole party and movement into a vehicle for her own personal grievances and her inability to cope with losing a democratic election.
She didn't incite a violent assault and riot on the Capitol Building on the day the 2016 election was being certified.
The Democratic Party does not use personal loyalty to her as a litmus test.
The Democratic Party does use the rejection of normal electoral processes as a litmus test.
The Democratic Party is not out there, based on Hillary's bruised ego, putting structures in place to allow them to overturn the will of the people (as expressed at the ballot box) of their own states.
The Democratic Party did not put in their policy platform that Donald Trump was an illegitimate president elected through a fraudulent process.
The Democratic Party does not have gubernatorial (and other) candidates out there stating that they will not concede any election they lose.
I could go on...

I think you're winding me up at this point

She's all over the place commenting on the midterms

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11380257/Hillary-Clinton-asks-voters-understand-whats-stake-midterms.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 02, 2022, 03:51:51 PM
Elections next week let's see what way the country votes and let's see the response by each party after, will be interesting to watch
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on November 02, 2022, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 02:01:16 PM
And since when is Black Lives Matter a Democratic Party organization or movement?

By that standard, sure the KKK and Proud Boys are wings of the official GOP.

BLM was fully embraced by the Democratic Party.

Didn't know the gathering at the Capitol was an official Republican rally.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2022, 04:30:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 02:01:16 PM
And since when is Black Lives Matter a Democratic Party organization or movement?

By that standard, sure the KKK and Proud Boys are wings of the official GOP.

Since Fox News claimed it was and kept repeating it around the clock until their low-information viewers were brainwashed into believing it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2022, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 12:24:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 02, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
There's a montage of about 20 different high profile Democrats saying trump was an illegitimate president

I'll post it up for you when I find it

The original election denier were the Democrats so get off your high horse

The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans when it comes to this stuff

Yet Hillary conceded the election the morning after. Al Gore did so very quickly when he came out the wrong side of an ultra partisan Supreme Court decision in 2000. John Kerry conceded immediately in 2004 despite some cries about fraud in Ohio.

Has Trump conceded yet? Has the Texas GOP removed their statement that Biden was not legitimately elected from the party platform yet? Have the literal hundreds of GOP candidates running this year on election and Biden denialism repudiated their positions in the last few days? Have the majority of House GOP representatives who voted not to recognize the election on the very evening of January 6th 2020 changed their positions?

Your standard attempts at false equivalency don't work this time either.

And sure you're not a Republican anyway whitey, so why are you so desperate to deflect from the authoritarian, anti-democracy rabble they've descended into?

Conceded the election - and then spent 4 years saying his victory and presidency was illegitimate

https://youtu.be/iO-Sw8CCxxY


Did she have her fingers crossed when she conceded?

She was a sore loser in her statements for sure, but so what? And its not like Hillary has kept a high profile.

Regardless, she wasn't out there filing dozens of spurious lawsuits for show and publicity (and to cash in).
She wasn't engaging in an endless public barrage of propaganda, which continues to this day, alleging that she was cheated out of the election.
She wasn't making phone calls to state officials asking them to "find" enough "votes" to tip a state her way.
She wasn't de facto head of the Democratic Party and intent, successfully so, in turning the whole party and movement into a vehicle for her own personal grievances and her inability to cope with losing a democratic election.
She didn't incite a violent assault and riot on the Capitol Building on the day the 2016 election was being certified.
The Democratic Party does not use personal loyalty to her as a litmus test.
The Democratic Party does use the rejection of normal electoral processes as a litmus test.
The Democratic Party is not out there, based on Hillary's bruised ego, putting structures in place to allow them to overturn the will of the people (as expressed at the ballot box) of their own states.
The Democratic Party did not put in their policy platform that Donald Trump was an illegitimate president elected through a fraudulent process.
The Democratic Party does not have gubernatorial (and other) candidates out there stating that they will not concede any election they lose.
I could go on...

I think you're winding me up at this point

She's all over the place commenting on the midterms

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11380257/Hillary-Clinton-asks-voters-understand-whats-stake-midterms.html

No way!! She's on the tv commenting on the upcoming elections next week??

Where has she been the past six years? You been seeing her on the news every... 6-12 months maybe, if that?

Talk about bad faith debate...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2022, 04:35:12 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 02, 2022, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 02:01:16 PM
And since when is Black Lives Matter a Democratic Party organization or movement?

By that standard, sure the KKK and Proud Boys are wings of the official GOP.

BLM was fully embraced by the Democratic Party.

Didn't know the gathering at the Capitol was an official Republican rally.

The question was about "what have the Democrats done..."

Many Democrats did embrace BLM. I supported their cause myself. That doesn't mean the Dems own them or that they arose out of the Democratic Party.

I'm amazed you try to tie the two together like that at the same time you try to downplay the role of the GOP in the Jan 6 coup attempt. ;D

As if Trump and Bannon and the wider GOP party/media didn't tell them all for weeks to "be there, its going to be wild" and "we're going to march right on down to the Capitol" and Cruz and that Missouri eejit (the "macho" one raising the fist earlier in the day who ran and hid when the shit went down) weren't all being cued up as part of the operation to block the certification.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 02, 2022, 05:25:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 04:35:12 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 02, 2022, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 02:01:16 PM
And since when is Black Lives Matter a Democratic Party organization or movement?

By that standard, sure the KKK and Proud Boys are wings of the official GOP.

BLM was fully embraced by the Democratic Party.

Didn't know the gathering at the Capitol was an official Republican rally.

The question was about "what have the Democrats done..."

Many Democrats did embrace BLM. I supported their cause myself. That doesn't mean the Dems own them or that they arose out of the Democratic Party.

I'm amazed you try to tie the two together like that at the same time you try to downplay the role of the GOP in the Jan 6 coup attempt. ;D

As if Trump and Bannon and the wider GOP party/media didn't tell them all for weeks to "be there, its going to be wild" and "we're going to march right on down to the Capitol" and Cruz and that Missouri eejit (the "macho" one raising the fist earlier in the day who ran and hid when the shit went down) weren't all being cued up as part of the operation to block the certification.
here's a question for you j70 how many cities were wrecked or had large violent protests after Biden was elected ? What would have happened if trump was elected ? We know the answers and it tells the story
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 02, 2022, 05:42:52 PM
Should be interesting how things play out next week

I just can't even fathom how badly the Democrats have handled things since they gained power in 2020

Believe me....I wanted them to succeed, (for purely economic reasons) but due to them pandering to the fringes of the party they have left themselves open to taking a walloping at the polls

The spinning and gaslighting has already started

And the shower who are going to take over will probably make things even worse

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2022, 06:01:56 PM
Can I get an Amen to this exquisite takedown of the abortion-underwriting anti-abortion candidate and domestic abuser Herschel Walker who's running for the Rethuglicans in Georgia?

Goosebumps.

https://twitter.com/QJames/status/1586833202764812292?s=20&t=slvRKM_1JGHvpUZrz07qKg (https://twitter.com/QJames/status/1586833202764812292?s=20&t=slvRKM_1JGHvpUZrz07qKg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2022, 06:11:34 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 02, 2022, 05:25:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 04:35:12 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 02, 2022, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 02, 2022, 02:01:16 PM
And since when is Black Lives Matter a Democratic Party organization or movement?

By that standard, sure the KKK and Proud Boys are wings of the official GOP.

BLM was fully embraced by the Democratic Party.

Didn't know the gathering at the Capitol was an official Republican rally.

The question was about "what have the Democrats done..."

Many Democrats did embrace BLM. I supported their cause myself. That doesn't mean the Dems own them or that they arose out of the Democratic Party.

I'm amazed you try to tie the two together like that at the same time you try to downplay the role of the GOP in the Jan 6 coup attempt. ;D

As if Trump and Bannon and the wider GOP party/media didn't tell them all for weeks to "be there, its going to be wild" and "we're going to march right on down to the Capitol" and Cruz and that Missouri eejit (the "macho" one raising the fist earlier in the day who ran and hid when the shit went down) weren't all being cued up as part of the operation to block the certification.
here's a question for you j70 how many cities were wrecked or had large violent protests after Biden was elected ? What would have happened if trump was elected ? We know the answers and it tells the story

You know the answer?

We'll sure tell us.

How many were wrecked in 2016?

Oh yeah, those women and science marches really descended into mayhem!

But let's say Trump had succeeded in his nakedly fraudulent scheme to steal the election in 2020, aided and abetted by the GOP.

Yeah, I'd say there would have been trouble.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2022, 10:50:29 PM
If Trump returns can he stay on for two terms or because he's done one he can't get two more?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on November 07, 2022, 11:00:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2022, 10:50:29 PM
If Trump returns can he stay on for two terms or because he's done one he can't get two more?

Just one more.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2022, 11:09:24 PM
Just listening to the tape on Georgia election, Trump asking for 11,000 votes lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2022, 12:25:26 AM
Never has a recording confirmed a. Man guilty of tryi g to break the law. How he can even be considered a good candidate for the presidency says alot about Americans,. Its sort of the proganda old Joseph Goebbels used to sprout and the Nazis, supporters believed anything told to them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 12:33:41 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2022, 12:25:26 AM
Never has a recording confirmed a. Man guilty of tryi g to break the law. How he can even be considered a good candidate for the presidency says alot about Americans,. Its sort of the proganda old Joseph Goebbels used to sprout and the Nazis, supporters believed anything told to them.

The Democrats are that bad, that they actually make Trump look good (I regret to say)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2022, 01:47:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2022, 10:50:29 PM
If Trump returns can he stay on for two terms or because he's done one he can't get two more?
according to democrats democracy itself is at stake in the midterms lol , if Trump gets back in he will install himself as dictator
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2022, 09:34:07 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 12:33:41 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2022, 12:25:26 AM
Never has a recording confirmed a. Man guilty of tryi g to break the law. How he can even be considered a good candidate for the presidency says alot about Americans,. Its sort of the proganda old Joseph Goebbels used to sprout and the Nazis, supporters believed anything told to them.

The Democrats are that bad, that they actually make Trump look good (I regret to say)

Your as bad as MR2 claiming not to support United FFS. 😂
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 10:53:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 12:33:41 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2022, 12:25:26 AM
Never has a recording confirmed a. Man guilty of tryi g to break the law. How he can even be considered a good candidate for the presidency says alot about Americans,. Its sort of the proganda old Joseph Goebbels used to sprout and the Nazis, supporters believed anything told to them.

The Democrats are that bad, that they actually make Trump look good (I regret to say)

Uh-huh
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2022, 01:47:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2022, 10:50:29 PM
If Trump returns can he stay on for two terms or because he's done one he can't get two more?
according to democrats democracy itself is at stake in the midterms lol , if Trump gets back in he will install himself as dictator

Nothing LOL about the GOP's "heads I win, tails you cheated" approach to elections.

Just because it personally suits you politically, for the moment, doesn't make it right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:46:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 10:53:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 12:33:41 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2022, 12:25:26 AM
Never has a recording confirmed a. Man guilty of tryi g to break the law. How he can even be considered a good candidate for the presidency says alot about Americans,. Its sort of the proganda old Joseph Goebbels used to sprout and the Nazis, supporters believed anything told to them.

The Democrats are that bad, that they actually make Trump look good (I regret to say)

Uh-huh

I've been saying it for years

The Democrats have lost all interest in improving peoples lives

Now if you are interested in a bunch of woke, bs, virtue signaling I'm sure they have a lot to offer you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 11:59:18 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:46:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 10:53:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 12:33:41 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2022, 12:25:26 AM
Never has a recording confirmed a. Man guilty of tryi g to break the law. How he can even be considered a good candidate for the presidency says alot about Americans,. Its sort of the proganda old Joseph Goebbels used to sprout and the Nazis, supporters believed anything told to them.

The Democrats are that bad, that they actually make Trump look good (I regret to say)

Uh-huh

I've been saying it for years

The Democrats have lost all interest in improving peoples lives

Now if you are interested in a bunch of woke, bs, virtue signaling I'm sure they have a lot to offer you

On the other hand, the GOP are only interested in disimproving the lives of outgroups and using fear of minorities, gays, transexuals, scientists and experts to drive up fear and loathing and perceived victimization so that they can gain power and steal elections.

See how that works?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 02:16:04 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.


Absolutely not....it's very real and actually costs Democrats big time with swing voters

I don't  know if you live here, but there is a very noisy faction of the Democratic Party who are in a constant state of agitation about everything. They're offended by things that would truly have you scratching your head. You can 100% agree with them but they'll still find something to get their knickers in a twist about

Eg-for the purposes of "equity" The Art Institute of Chicago let go all of their (volunteer) docents because they were overwhelmingly white. These (mainly) ladies has often spent decades training and educating themselves to become experts, but no that wasn't good enough for the woke mob. Keep in mind these docents would probably be 100% Democratic voters

https://www.gmtoday.com/news/illinois/chicago-s-art-institute-fired-its-volunteer-docents-and-caused-a-furor-heard-nationwide/article_bc816578-56b3-11ec-a98f-5b15c9c07dce.html



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on November 08, 2022, 03:02:47 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

;D

Yes.

I think we need a new one as well for people who get offended by "woke" people too. Does the woke woke work?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 03:36:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2022, 03:02:47 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

;D

Yes.

I think we need a new one as well for people who get offended by "woke" people too. Does the woke woke work?

Who's offended?

I think it's absolutely fantastic because it costs extremist Democrats votes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

In the 1970s it was "women's lib" that was the big threat. In the 1990s it was "political correctness." Today it's "wokeness." It's just the latest pejorative name the right gives to whatever the current movement is to make people's lives better.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on November 08, 2022, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

In the 1970s it was "women's lib" that was the big threat. In the 1990s it was "political correctness." Today it's "wokeness." It's just the latest pejorative name the right gives to whatever the current movement is to make people's lives better.

I sincerely hope that any decent Irish American gets out and votes democrat today especially if they have any belief in democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 08, 2022, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

In the 1970s it was "women's lib" that was the big threat. In the 1990s it was "political correctness." Today it's "wokeness." It's just the latest pejorative name the right gives to whatever the current movement is to make people's lives better.

I sincerely hope that any decent Irish American gets out and votes democrat today especially if they have any belief in democracy.

The Democratic Party have nothing to offer decent  Irish Americans (unless they like high crime and high taxes )

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 08:37:12 PM
Whitey likes to throw Bill Maher at us now and again to make a point (often valid) about some idiotic progressive position.

It's a wonder he didn't post this one from the weekend about the danger to future American elections from the GOP and the complete apathy of the American public about what they're doing.

https://youtu.be/HKVBvooZ2c8 (https://youtu.be/HKVBvooZ2c8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 08, 2022, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

In the 1970s it was "women's lib" that was the big threat. In the 1990s it was "political correctness." Today it's "wokeness." It's just the latest pejorative name the right gives to whatever the current movement is to make people's lives better.

I sincerely hope that any decent Irish American gets out and votes democrat today especially if they have any belief in democracy.

The Democratic Party have nothing to offer decent  Irish Americans (unless they like high crime and high taxes )

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Ah yes, whitey's Boston buddies. How many times have you posted this?

Did they ever go back and interview these lads when it turned out Trump WASN'T all talk with his extremist rhetoric about immigrants and Muslims? Or to find out what Trump actually improved in their lives even if they didn't give a f**k about his bigotry and callousness?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:54:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 08, 2022, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

In the 1970s it was "women's lib" that was the big threat. In the 1990s it was "political correctness." Today it's "wokeness." It's just the latest pejorative name the right gives to whatever the current movement is to make people's lives better.

I sincerely hope that any decent Irish American gets out and votes democrat today especially if they have any belief in democracy.

The Democratic Party have nothing to offer decent  Irish Americans (unless they like high crime and high taxes )

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Ah yes, whitey's Boston buddies. How many times have you posted this?

Did they ever go back and interview these lads when it turned out Trump WASN'T all talk with his extremist rhetoric about immigrants and Muslims? Or to find out what Trump actually improved in their lives even if they didn't give a f**k about his bigotry and callousness?

J70

Why can't you just admit that the Democratic Party have lost their way and no longer have much appeal to large swaths of what used to be their base

FFS they're even admitting it on CNN

You can blink your answer if you're being held captive

I just checked-Hingham MA, which is the extremely wealthy town mentioned in the article-Trump actually got more votes in 2020 that he did in 2016. You have a very distorted view of the world which is not shared outside of your little bubble

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 09:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 08:37:12 PM
Whitey likes to throw Bill Maher at us now and again to make a point (often valid) about some idiotic progressive position.

It's a wonder he didn't post this one from the weekend about the danger to future American elections from the GOP and the complete apathy of the American public about what they're doing.

https://youtu.be/HKVBvooZ2c8 (https://youtu.be/HKVBvooZ2c8)

LOL

J70-the Democrats promoted and funded some of the most extreme election deniers in the Republican primary. Now the chickens might be coming home to roost for them

Instead of putting up good moderate candidates themselves, the Democrats ran a bunch of clowns in their primaries, hoping that the Republicans (with their help) would select even worse more unelectable clowns.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 09:07:30 PM
An Ohio man has been charged for gunning down his 43 year old neighbor who was mowing his lawn. The victim's wife told 911 that the angry neighbor had confronted her husband four times because he thought he was a Democrat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 08, 2022, 09:08:03 PM
Remember the Georgia Jim Crow voting laws being spouted about on here and all over tv ? well turns out they are having a record turn out in this election, let's hope the pipes don't burst down there tonight.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 09:42:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 09:02:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 08:37:12 PM
Whitey likes to throw Bill Maher at us now and again to make a point (often valid) about some idiotic progressive position.

It's a wonder he didn't post this one from the weekend about the danger to future American elections from the GOP and the complete apathy of the American public about what they're doing.

https://youtu.be/HKVBvooZ2c8 (https://youtu.be/HKVBvooZ2c8)

LOL

J70-the Democrats promoted and funded some of the most extreme election deniers in the Republican primary. Now the chickens might be coming home to roost for them

Instead of putting up good moderate candidates themselves, the Democrats ran a bunch of clowns in their primaries, hoping that the Republicans (with their help) would select even worse more unelectable clowns.

I disagree completely with those that Dems pushed GOP extremists. But... it's still the GOP electorate who are selecting them and it's still Trump and the wider party demanding they all bend the knee to Trump and his election fraud lies.

Say what you like whitey, but Kevin McCarthy and the party gave the likes of Liz Cheney the boot while the circus act that is Marjorie Taylor Greene is going to demand and receive a plum committee assignment.

On the Dem candidates, I really hope they now see the centre ground that is there to be occupied as the GOP completes its journey off the deep end. Start getting some centrist candidates warmed up for 2024 and let the likes of MTG force McCarthy to fumble away impeaching Hunter Biden for the next two years.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 09:43:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 08, 2022, 09:08:03 PM
Remember the Georgia Jim Crow voting laws being spouted about on here and all over tv ? well turns out they are having a record turn out in this election, let's hope the pipes don't burst down there tonight.

You can't post ANYTHING without some GOP conspiracy bullshit thrown in?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 09:46:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:54:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 08, 2022, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

In the 1970s it was "women's lib" that was the big threat. In the 1990s it was "political correctness." Today it's "wokeness." It's just the latest pejorative name the right gives to whatever the current movement is to make people's lives better.

I sincerely hope that any decent Irish American gets out and votes democrat today especially if they have any belief in democracy.

The Democratic Party have nothing to offer decent  Irish Americans (unless they like high crime and high taxes )

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Ah yes, whitey's Boston buddies. How many times have you posted this?

Did they ever go back and interview these lads when it turned out Trump WASN'T all talk with his extremist rhetoric about immigrants and Muslims? Or to find out what Trump actually improved in their lives even if they didn't give a f**k about his bigotry and callousness?

J70

Why can't you just admit that the Democratic Party have lost their way and no longer have much appeal to large swaths of what used to be their base

FFS they're even admitting it on CNN

You can blink your answer if you're being held captive

I just checked-Hingham MA, which is the extremely wealthy town mentioned in the article-Trump actually got more votes in 2020 that he did in 2016. You have a very distorted view of the world which is not shared outside of your little bubble

So calling bullshit on the nonsense spewed in that article is evidence of me living in a bubble?

I've commented on that article each time you post it, and all you ever do is accuse me of being out of touch.

If I'm so obviously wrong, then it should be easy to address and refute the actual points I make.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 08, 2022, 10:09:05 PM
Exit polls point to a very very bad night for the Dems
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 10:16:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 09:46:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:54:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 08, 2022, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

In the 1970s it was "women's lib" that was the big threat. In the 1990s it was "political correctness." Today it's "wokeness." It's just the latest pejorative name the right gives to whatever the current movement is to make people's lives better.

I sincerely hope that any decent Irish American gets out and votes democrat today especially if they have any belief in democracy.

The Democratic Party have nothing to offer decent  Irish Americans (unless they like high crime and high taxes )

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Ah yes, whitey's Boston buddies. How many times have you posted this?

Did they ever go back and interview these lads when it turned out Trump WASN'T all talk with his extremist rhetoric about immigrants and Muslims? Or to find out what Trump actually improved in their lives even if they didn't give a f**k about his bigotry and callousness?

J70

Why can't you just admit that the Democratic Party have lost their way and no longer have much appeal to large swaths of what used to be their base

FFS they're even admitting it on CNN

You can blink your answer if you're being held captive

I just checked-Hingham MA, which is the extremely wealthy town mentioned in the article-Trump actually got more votes in 2020 that he did in 2016. You have a very distorted view of the world which is not shared outside of your little bubble

So calling bullshit on the nonsense spewed in that article is evidence of me living in a bubble?

I've commented on that article each time you post it, and all you ever do is accuse me of being out of touch.

If I'm so obviously wrong, then it should be easy to address and refute the actual points I make.

What exactly in that article is nonsense?

I used to live 200 yards from that pub and drank in there regularly.

I know people who still drink in there and they're solid Republicans

Many are off the boat Irish too I might add.

I know a bunch of people who lives in Hingham. Lots of second and third generation Irish Americans-all college educated Republican voters
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on November 08, 2022, 10:22:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2022, 10:09:05 PM
Exit polls point to a very very bad night for the Dems

Everything pointed to this. Except the Irish Times, RTE, etc. Why would we be cynical?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 08, 2022, 10:22:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2022, 10:09:05 PM
Exit polls point to a very very bad night for the Dems

Everything pointed to this. Except the Irish Times, RTE, etc. Why would we be cynical?

I'm not counting any chickens yet

House is a done deal but Senate way too close to call

PA is a debacle-thousands of mail in ballots on hold due to incorrect date

Smerconish had a piece on it today-if you want to hear a fair and balanced commentary on American politics he's the best in the business

https://www.smerconish.com/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 08, 2022, 11:06:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 10:16:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 09:46:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:54:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 08, 2022, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

In the 1970s it was "women's lib" that was the big threat. In the 1990s it was "political correctness." Today it's "wokeness." It's just the latest pejorative name the right gives to whatever the current movement is to make people's lives better.

I sincerely hope that any decent Irish American gets out and votes democrat today especially if they have any belief in democracy.

The Democratic Party have nothing to offer decent  Irish Americans (unless they like high crime and high taxes )

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Ah yes, whitey's Boston buddies. How many times have you posted this?

Did they ever go back and interview these lads when it turned out Trump WASN'T all talk with his extremist rhetoric about immigrants and Muslims? Or to find out what Trump actually improved in their lives even if they didn't give a f**k about his bigotry and callousness?

J70

Why can't you just admit that the Democratic Party have lost their way and no longer have much appeal to large swaths of what used to be their base

FFS they're even admitting it on CNN

You can blink your answer if you're being held captive

I just checked-Hingham MA, which is the extremely wealthy town mentioned in the article-Trump actually got more votes in 2020 that he did in 2016. You have a very distorted view of the world which is not shared outside of your little bubble

So calling bullshit on the nonsense spewed in that article is evidence of me living in a bubble?

I've commented on that article each time you post it, and all you ever do is accuse me of being out of touch.

If I'm so obviously wrong, then it should be easy to address and refute the actual points I make.

What exactly in that article is nonsense?

I used to live 200 yards from that pub and drank in there regularly.

I know people who still drink in there and they're solid Republicans

Many are off the boat Irish too I might add.

I know a bunch of people who lives in Hingham. Lots of second and third generation Irish Americans-all college educated Republican voters
Your word is anecdotal and highly questionable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 11:22:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 10:16:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 09:46:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:54:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 08, 2022, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 08, 2022, 01:34:10 PM
is woke just another internet buzz word that people rhyme and repeat funny how they call people sheep but they all seem to use the same buzzwords ohh look at me i said woke lol.

In the 1970s it was "women's lib" that was the big threat. In the 1990s it was "political correctness." Today it's "wokeness." It's just the latest pejorative name the right gives to whatever the current movement is to make people's lives better.

I sincerely hope that any decent Irish American gets out and votes democrat today especially if they have any belief in democracy.

The Democratic Party have nothing to offer decent  Irish Americans (unless they like high crime and high taxes )

https://m.independent.ie/life/echoes-of-the-rust-belt-on-irish-riviera-35207534.html

Ah yes, whitey's Boston buddies. How many times have you posted this?

Did they ever go back and interview these lads when it turned out Trump WASN'T all talk with his extremist rhetoric about immigrants and Muslims? Or to find out what Trump actually improved in their lives even if they didn't give a f**k about his bigotry and callousness?

J70

Why can't you just admit that the Democratic Party have lost their way and no longer have much appeal to large swaths of what used to be their base

FFS they're even admitting it on CNN

You can blink your answer if you're being held captive

I just checked-Hingham MA, which is the extremely wealthy town mentioned in the article-Trump actually got more votes in 2020 that he did in 2016. You have a very distorted view of the world which is not shared outside of your little bubble

So calling bullshit on the nonsense spewed in that article is evidence of me living in a bubble?

I've commented on that article each time you post it, and all you ever do is accuse me of being out of touch.

If I'm so obviously wrong, then it should be easy to address and refute the actual points I make.

What exactly in that article is nonsense?

I used to live 200 yards from that pub and drank in there regularly.

I know people who still drink in there and they're solid Republicans

Many are off the boat Irish too I might add.

I know a bunch of people who lives in Hingham. Lots of second and third generation Irish Americans-all college educated Republican voters

What's nonsense?

The victimization horseshit for one. "Oh they're talking down at us!"

Calling Hillary a liar but dismissing Trump's promises on immigration and Muslims (which he would very seriously and damagingly try to deliver on) as just campaign talk and not giving a bollocks about his personal and business behaviour towards women and small businessmen just like them.

Implying Trump would do (or be able to do and even try to do) something about globalization and the damage it has wreaked on blue collar American towns, a ship that sailed long ago and something the Republican Party was and is the last organization which would give a f**k about it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 11:26:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 08, 2022, 10:22:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2022, 10:09:05 PM
Exit polls point to a very very bad night for the Dems

Everything pointed to this. Except the Irish Times, RTE, etc. Why would we be cynical?

I'm not counting any chickens yet

House is a done deal but Senate way too close to call

PA is a debacle-thousands of mail in ballots on hold due to incorrect date

Smerconish had a piece on it today-if you want to hear a fair and balanced commentary on American politics he's the best in the business

https://www.smerconish.com/

You push Smerconish (and I speak as someone who listens to him regularly having been alerted to his podcast by you) yet you post here day after day as if the Dems are the epitome of evil and the GOP conservative movement is above reproach.

I don't get it.

He is NOT a conservative, at least not on the American scale.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:29:53 PM
LOL

But Democrats do talk down to people-1000 %

You must live under a rock if you think they don't!

Agree with us or you're uneducated, stupid, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic....fill in the blank 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 11:35:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:29:53 PM
LOL

But Democrats do talk down to people-1000 %

You must live under a rock if you think they don't!

Agree with us or you're uneducated, stupid, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic....fill in the blank

How about...

Agree with us or you're immoral, unpatriotic, elitest (this one always gets me coming from Harvard/Yale graduates in the GOP), emotional, irrational, don't live in the real world, effeminate, indoctrinated, out of touch... fill in the blank.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:36:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 11:26:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 08, 2022, 10:22:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2022, 10:09:05 PM
Exit polls point to a very very bad night for the Dems

Everything pointed to this. Except the Irish Times, RTE, etc. Why would we be cynical?

I'm not counting any chickens yet

House is a done deal but Senate way too close to call

PA is a debacle-thousands of mail in ballots on hold due to incorrect date

Smerconish had a piece on it today-if you want to hear a fair and balanced commentary on American politics he's the best in the business

https://www.smerconish.com/

You push Smerconish (and I speak as someone who listens to him regularly having been alerted to his podcast by you) yet you post here day after day as if the Dems are the epitome of evil and the GOP conservative movement is above reproach.

I don't get it.

He is NOT a conservative, at least not on the American scale.

I absolutely post no such thing

Most people in Ireland have this view of the Democratic Party that is a holdover from the JFK days-Democrats are the good guys. Republicans are the bad guys

That's total BS

There are as many (if not more) bad guys in the Democratic Party as there in the Republican Party.

They're out and out cvnts and the likes of Boebert, Lake and MTG are equally as bad

(I religiously listen to Julie Mason and Dan Abrams too. Laura Coats not as much but I do listen to her. Lots of driving involved with my job)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:37:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 11:35:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:29:53 PM
LOL

But Democrats do talk down to people-1000 %

You must live under a rock if you think they don't!

Agree with us or you're uneducated, stupid, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic....fill in the blank

How about...

Agree with us or you're immoral, unpatriotic, elitest (this one always gets me coming from Harvard/Yale graduates in the GOP), emotional, irrational, don't live in the real world, effeminate, indoctrinated, out of touch... fill in the blank.

Yes-that's true. They're the other side of the same coin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 08, 2022, 11:40:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:36:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2022, 11:26:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 08, 2022, 10:22:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 08, 2022, 10:09:05 PM
Exit polls point to a very very bad night for the Dems

Everything pointed to this. Except the Irish Times, RTE, etc. Why would we be cynical?

I'm not counting any chickens yet

House is a done deal but Senate way too close to call

PA is a debacle-thousands of mail in ballots on hold due to incorrect date

Smerconish had a piece on it today-if you want to hear a fair and balanced commentary on American politics he's the best in the business

https://www.smerconish.com/

You push Smerconish (and I speak as someone who listens to him regularly having been alerted to his podcast by you) yet you post here day after day as if the Dems are the epitome of evil and the GOP conservative movement is above reproach.

I don't get it.

He is NOT a conservative, at least not on the American scale.

I absolutely post no such thing

Most people in Ireland have this view of the Democratic Party that is a holdover from the JFK days-Democrats are the good guys. Republicans are the bad guys

That's total BS

There are as many (if not more) bad guys in the Democratic Party as there in the Republican Party.

They're out and out cvnts and the likes of Boebert, Lake and MTG are equally as bad

Come on...

The only comment you had earlier on the GOP's election fixing scheming is that the Dems pushed extremist candidates in some cases.

No condemnation of the actual moves themselves and the complete takeover of the party by this doctrine.

Trump could end up succeeding in stealing the election in two years, and the only thing you will have to say is that the Dems brought it on themselves and everyone else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:47:11 PM
So cleaning up voter rolls, asking for ID and asking for mail in ballots to arrive on time is a scheme to steal the election?


I'm very pragmatic

99.99999% of people who want to vote can and do

This pile of malarkey about voter suppression is just a way for Democrats to raise money and drive enthusiasm

If voter suppression was the goal of the GOP in GA, it didn't work too well for them did it?

https://youtube.com/shorts/podSojrAZNQ?feature=share
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 09, 2022, 03:54:55 AM
A lesbian governor in Mass - can someone check in on whitey?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 09, 2022, 04:28:31 AM
No majority now likely in the senate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2022, 04:50:52 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 09, 2022, 03:54:55 AM
A lesbian governor in Mass - can someone check in on whitey?

When have I ever made a derogatory remark about a gay person?

I know tons of gay people... some of whom are friends of mine

My issues with her have to do with criminal undocumented people not getting deported
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2022, 04:51:11 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 09, 2022, 03:54:55 AM
A lesbian governor in Mass - can someone check in on whitey?
https://youtu.be/hP8T4TAgGXA

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 09, 2022, 05:10:34 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 09, 2022, 04:28:31 AM
No majority now likely in the senate?

Looks like Georgia will be run-off again in December
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2022, 06:33:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 08, 2022, 11:47:11 PM
So cleaning up voter rolls, asking for ID and asking for mail in ballots to arrive on time is a scheme to steal the election?


I'm very pragmatic

99.99999% of people who want to vote can and do

This pile of malarkey about voter suppression is just a way for Democrats to raise money and drive enthusiasm

If voter suppression was the goal of the GOP in GA, it didn't work too well for them did it?

https://youtube.com/shorts/podSojrAZNQ?feature=share

You know very well I'm talking about the efforts to put people and rules in place to allow GOP pols to change the results afterwards when the actual votes don't go their way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 09, 2022, 06:43:33 AM
As someone who's always voted in the North I find it bizarre that voter ID is being touted as a form of voter suppression. Shouldn't it be standard to root out fraud?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2022, 07:39:25 AM
After tonight, given DeSantis's big win and the utter failure of many of Trump's endorsees in what should have been a great election for the Republicans, surely the GOP base will finally see the light and do us all a favour and ditch Trump?

I say that as someone who firmly believes the only way Biden wins a second term is if his opponent is Trump, but I honestly don't think the country can handle even a serious Trump candidacy. I'd rather live with DeSantis and his culture warrior bullshit than even take a chance on that corrupt, evil man-toddler getting anywhere near the White House again, especially as he'll put the country through hell if he loses.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2022, 10:24:20 AM
Not at all surprised at how things have played out

I never bought into the Red Wave

The republicans had some extremely weak candidates in some of these big states

Happy to see the election deniers soundly defeated
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2022, 10:26:16 AM
"The people have voted, the bastards"

Dick Fuld
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on November 09, 2022, 11:07:32 AM
"Well I think if they win (the republicans) I should get all the credit, and if they lose I should not be blamed at all."

Who do you think said that?

Answers on a postcard.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2022, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2022, 11:07:32 AM
"Well I think if they win (the republicans) I should get all the credit, and if they lose I should not be blamed at all."

Who do you think said that?

Answers on a postcard.

Just talked to a big Trump supporter and they're fuming with him

"He has to go"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2022, 12:26:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2022, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2022, 11:07:32 AM
"Well I think if they win (the republicans) I should get all the credit, and if they lose I should not be blamed at all."

Who do you think said that?

Answers on a postcard.

Just talked to a big Trump supporter and they're fuming with him

"He has to go"

Well it's in their hands.

Hopefully they do the right thing.

Word is he is gearing up to announce his run next week.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2022, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2022, 04:50:52 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 09, 2022, 03:54:55 AM
A lesbian governor in Mass - can someone check in on whitey?



My issues with her have to do with criminal undocumented people not getting deported
Yes it's time all those lawless Irish were sent home to where they belong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 09, 2022, 12:42:45 PM
The GOP candidates who failed to impress, are they generally Trump candidates or GOP candidates?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2022, 12:51:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 09, 2022, 12:42:45 PM
The GOP candidates who failed to impress, are they generally Trump candidates or GOP candidates?

At least some cases of the former (I'm sure there will be plenty of coverage which will tabulate it one way or another).

Brian Kemp cruised to winning the GA governorship again. Herschel Walker is trailing in the Senate race and is likely headed for a runn-off. Obviously a lot of Kemp voters weren't comfortable with Walker.

Shapiro wiped the floor with Doug Mastriano (who actually ran buses to the Capitol on Jan 6) in PA gov race, but Oz ran Fetterman a lot closer in the Senate race (I'm sure Fetterman lost a bit of support due to his medical issues, but Mastriano is a complete clown and there was probably a lot of vote splitting).

Even Lauren Boebert, while she'll probably pull through, is in a very tight race for her House seat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2022, 01:57:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2022, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2022, 04:50:52 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 09, 2022, 03:54:55 AM
A lesbian governor in Mass - can someone check in on whitey?



My issues with her have to do with criminal undocumented people not getting deported
Yes it's time all those lawless Irish were sent home to where they belong.

If they break the law.....yes....they should be deported
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2022, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 09, 2022, 12:42:45 PM
The GOP candidates who failed to impress, are they generally Trump candidates or GOP candidates?

OZ, Walker, Bolduc and Masters are extremely weak candidates

If it wasn't for Trump they wouldn't even be on the ballot

I would go as far as saying that Trump could end up costing the GOP 4 very winnable 'Senate seats
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2022, 02:13:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2022, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 09, 2022, 12:42:45 PM
The GOP candidates who failed to impress, are they generally Trump candidates or GOP candidates?

OZ, Walker, Bolduc and Masters are extremely weak candidates

If it wasn't for Trump they wouldn't even be on the ballot

I would go as far as saying that Trump could end up costing the GOP 4 very winnable 'Senate seats

If the GOP electorate (and indeed their two candidates) hadn't bought into Trump's election bullshit and hissy fit, they may well have won those two GA seats on Jan 5 2021 and Mitch McConnell would have remained Majority Leader.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2022, 02:45:21 PM
Looks like control of the House might actually hinge on the fact that NY passed a redistricting law in 2014 and the resulting deadlock in agreeing new maps this year threw the issue to the courts, resulting in fairly balanced, competitive districts rather than the ludicrous, gerrymandered districts elsewhere.

Means the GOP will win some competitive races here when they could have been gerrymandered out of it altogether. Same in CA.

Its a shame other states won't follow suit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 03:33:15 PM
Like I said in November 2020 desantis will be the next president .
Bad night for the gop , with fetterman oz the worst of a lot of bad races .
Hopefully trump goes away now and let's Ron get to work
The calls to charge trump with a crime will go silent now as he is the democrats best chance in 2024 .
Watch the hit jobs come at Ron now from all angles .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on November 09, 2022, 03:39:16 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 03:33:15 PM
Like I said in November 2020 desantis will be the next president .
Bad night for the gop , with fetterman oz the worst of a lot of bad races .
Hopefully trump goes away now and let's Ron get to work
The calls to charge trump with a crime will go silent now as he is the democrats best chance in 2024 .
Watch the hit jobs come at Ron now from all angles .

Was Trump not threatening a job on him if he run? " If he runs it will be bad for the Republican Party. I know more things about him than anyone except his wife"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2022, 04:10:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 03:33:15 PM
Like I said in November 2020 desantis will be the next president .
Bad night for the gop , with fetterman oz the worst of a lot of bad races .
Hopefully trump goes away now and let's Ron get to work
The calls to charge trump with a crime will go silent now as he is the democrats best chance in 2024 .
Watch the hit jobs come at Ron now from all angles .

1. There is NO Democrat who wants Trump to run. Some things are bigger than partisan politics. The man is a threat to democracy. That's all there is to it. And if the case is strong enough to prosecute him, then it should proceed.

2. The hit jobs apply to candidates of ALL parties, so stop whining (your party is the one who brought us Lee Atwater and his disciples and is about to launch umpteen investigations into Biden and his son under the man who torpedoed his own first attempt at becoming Speaker when he stupidly let it slip live on the news that all the Benghazi investigations were really about damaging Hillary). And DeSantis first has to win the nomination, which means it will be Trump and the rest of the GOP who will be digging initially. Remember Romney and vulture capitalism? That didn't come from the Obama campaign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 04:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2022, 04:10:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 03:33:15 PM
Like I said in November 2020 desantis will be the next president .
Bad night for the gop , with fetterman oz the worst of a lot of bad races .
Hopefully trump goes away now and let's Ron get to work
The calls to charge trump with a crime will go silent now as he is the democrats best chance in 2024 .
Watch the hit jobs come at Ron now from all angles .

1. There is NO Democrat who wants Trump to run. Some things are bigger than partisan politics. The man is a threat to democracy. That's all there is to it. And if the case is strong enough to prosecute him, then it should proceed.

2. The hit jobs apply to candidates of ALL parties, so stop whining (your party is the one who brought us Lee Atwater and his disciples and is about to launch umpteen investigations into Biden and his son under the man who torpedoed his own first attempt at becoming Speaker when he stupidly let it slip live on the news that all the Benghazi investigations were really about damaging Hillary). And DeSantis first has to win the nomination, which means it will be Trump and the rest of the GOP who will be digging initially. Remember Romney and vulture capitalism? That didn't come from the Obama campaign.
problem is Desantis is the best candidate by a mile on either side .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2022, 05:00:19 PM
Senate is too close to call and the GOP will probably win the House by a thin margin.
Incumbents usually weaken in inflationary times but the GOP didn't do very well. I wonder what the interaction of the main factors eg economy, abortion, war is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 05:06:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2022, 05:00:19 PM
Senate is too close to call and the GOP will probably win the House by a thin margin.
Incumbents usually weaken in inflationary times but the GOP didn't do very well. I wonder what the interaction of the main factors eg economy, abortion, war is.
there is no interaction, no thought more like hatfields and McCoys
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2022, 05:07:05 PM
So much for the red wave. It was a weak ripple at best. Not a good night for the MAGAs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2022, 05:07:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 04:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2022, 04:10:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 03:33:15 PM
Like I said in November 2020 desantis will be the next president .
Bad night for the gop , with fetterman oz the worst of a lot of bad races .
Hopefully trump goes away now and let's Ron get to work
The calls to charge trump with a crime will go silent now as he is the democrats best chance in 2024 .
Watch the hit jobs come at Ron now from all angles .

1. There is NO Democrat who wants Trump to run. Some things are bigger than partisan politics. The man is a threat to democracy. That's all there is to it. And if the case is strong enough to prosecute him, then it should proceed.

2. The hit jobs apply to candidates of ALL parties, so stop whining (your party is the one who brought us Lee Atwater and his disciples and is about to launch umpteen investigations into Biden and his son under the man who torpedoed his own first attempt at becoming Speaker when he stupidly let it slip live on the news that all the Benghazi investigations were really about damaging Hillary). And DeSantis first has to win the nomination, which means it will be Trump and the rest of the GOP who will be digging initially. Remember Romney and vulture capitalism? That didn't come from the Obama campaign.
problem is Desantis is the best candidate by a mile on either side .

Leaving policy aside, he is a very formidable and capable candidate.

Let's see if he has the balls and stomach to send Trump packing.

Because Trump will drag him into the gutter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2022, 05:36:18 PM
Spent the morning listening to the coverage

Some of the most important take always

Worst showing in a mid term in a generation (by the non incumbent party)

Abortion played a much bigger part in the election than people thought beforehand

Young voters showed up in droves for the Democrats

Independent who disapproved of Biden voted for the Democrats by slight margin. In prior cycles they would have voted Democratic by 40%

Election deniers got smoked

Complete idiots like Boebert and Palin strongly rejected
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 09, 2022, 05:52:26 PM
Blaming Melania for picking Dr Oz  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on November 09, 2022, 07:17:11 PM
Mike the pillow guy says "they're stealing everything".

There's only so much you can say about "the woke" before people look at their lives and realise how little it's actually an issue and more something that has been created online . . . thing seem to be going back to normal with concessions and the like and no real serious people talking about stealing and fraud so hopefully we're seeing the end of that.

Trump looks goosed all we can hope for is he does enough damage to DeSantis.

Is there any serious opposition to Biden within the Democrats? While he has steadied the ship (in relative terms of course there has to be better in the White House) the WH could do with some new Democrat blood let's be honest!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 09, 2022, 07:52:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 04:44:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2022, 04:10:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 03:33:15 PM
Like I said in November 2020 desantis will be the next president .
Bad night for the gop , with fetterman oz the worst of a lot of bad races .
Hopefully trump goes away now and let's Ron get to work
The calls to charge trump with a crime will go silent now as he is the democrats best chance in 2024 .
Watch the hit jobs come at Ron now from all angles .

1. There is NO Democrat who wants Trump to run. Some things are bigger than partisan politics. The man is a threat to democracy. That's all there is to it. And if the case is strong enough to prosecute him, then it should proceed.

2. The hit jobs apply to candidates of ALL parties, so stop whining (your party is the one who brought us Lee Atwater and his disciples and is about to launch umpteen investigations into Biden and his son under the man who torpedoed his own first attempt at becoming Speaker when he stupidly let it slip live on the news that all the Benghazi investigations were really about damaging Hillary). And DeSantis first has to win the nomination, which means it will be Trump and the rest of the GOP who will be digging initially. Remember Romney and vulture capitalism? That didn't come from the Obama campaign.
problem is Desantis is the best candidate by a mile on either side .

Based on? His policies seems to based on getting rid the woke society and he even managed to upset among Florida's biggest employers Disney.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2022, 07:53:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2022, 05:36:18 PM
Spent the morning listening to the coverage

Some of the most important take always

Worst showing in a mid term in a generation (by the non incumbent party)

Abortion played a much bigger part in the election than people thought beforehand

Young voters showed up in droves for the Democrats

Independent who disapproved of Biden voted for the Democrats by slight margin. In prior cycles they would have voted Democratic by 40%

Election deniers got smoked

Complete idiots like Boebert and Palin strongly rejected
As soon as Roe vs Wade was dismantled , women indicated that the mid terms were a target. And Senate Republicans who got the judges in.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2022, 08:24:19 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/aa6eb683-7caa-44bc-a4af-1a2617ebfdf7

flanked by fellow Democratic lawmakers, the Senate majority leader suggested there could also be a political opening for his party ahead of the 2022 midterm elections amid the outrage — and Republicans would pay a price. "The blame for this decision falls squarely on Senate Republicans, who spent years pushing extremist judges and justices while claiming this day would never come. But come it has," Schumer said. "They know they're on the wrong side of history and on the wrong side of the American people."

https://www.ft.com/content/aa6eb683-7caa-44bc-a4af-1a2617ebfdf7

The confidence that Republicans will suffer a backlash if the Supreme Court and its conservative majority fully overturn Roe vs Wade is mainly based on public polling showing clear opposition to such a move.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2022, 08:41:05 PM
See that statement by Trump if they win its down to him, if they lose its their own fault, what a p***k, so full of himself it's unreal. On another note don't know much about his politics outside the fact Trump got Walker to play in the breakaway football league years ago, but what a player Herscel Walker was.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 09, 2022, 09:41:51 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2022, 08:41:05 PM
See that statement by Trump if they win its down to him, if they lose its their own fault, what a p***k, so full of himself it's unreal. On another note don't know much about his politics outside the fact Trump got Walker to play in the breakaway football league years ago, but what a player Herscel Walker was.
you don't have a sense of humor?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2022, 10:09:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2022, 08:24:19 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/aa6eb683-7caa-44bc-a4af-1a2617ebfdf7

flanked by fellow Democratic lawmakers, the Senate majority leader suggested there could also be a political opening for his party ahead of the 2022 midterm elections amid the outrage — and Republicans would pay a price. "The blame for this decision falls squarely on Senate Republicans, who spent years pushing extremist judges and justices while claiming this day would never come. But come it has," Schumer said. "They know they're on the wrong side of history and on the wrong side of the American people."

https://www.ft.com/content/aa6eb683-7caa-44bc-a4af-1a2617ebfdf7

The confidence that Republicans will suffer a backlash if the Supreme Court and its conservative majority fully overturn Roe vs Wade is mainly based on public polling showing clear opposition to such a move.

The Republicans are like the dog that caught the car...now what?

Whether you agree with abortion or not, there are all types of unintended consequences of that SJC ruling

Certain medications are either banned completely or hard to get because they can also be used to trigger a miscarriage

Pregnancies like the Savita case are now proving very problematic for Obgyns in certain states

A 10 year old girl was prevented from terminating a pregnancy and had to cross state lines


It's a complete debacle

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 12:22:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2022, 05:36:18 PM
Spent the morning listening to the coverage

Some of the most important take always

Worst showing in a mid term in a generation (by the non incumbent party)

Abortion played a much bigger part in the election than people thought beforehand

Young voters showed up in droves for the Democrats

Independent who disapproved of Biden voted for the Democrats by slight margin. In prior cycles they would have voted Democratic by 40%

Election deniers got smoked

Complete idiots like Boebert and Palin strongly rejected
Boebert ain't gone yet
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2022, 12:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 12:22:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2022, 05:36:18 PM
Spent the morning listening to the coverage

Some of the most important take always

Worst showing in a mid term in a generation (by the non incumbent party)

Abortion played a much bigger part in the election than people thought beforehand

Young voters showed up in droves for the Democrats

Independent who disapproved of Biden voted for the Democrats by slight margin. In prior cycles they would have voted Democratic by 40%

Election deniers got smoked

Complete idiots like Boebert and Palin strongly rejected
Boebert ain't gone yet

Just saw that
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2022, 12:37:46 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2022, 08:41:05 PM
See that statement by Trump if they win its down to him, if they lose its their own fault, what a p***k, so full of himself it's unreal. On another note don't know much about his politics outside the fact Trump got Walker to play in the breakaway football league years ago, but what a player Herscel Walker was.

The USFL? Wasn't it doing fine until Trump stepped in and messed it up with his "business genius?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2022, 12:39:35 AM
Yep, seems that way. Quoth Wiki:

On the field, the USFL was regarded as a relatively good product. Many coaches and team executives had NFL experience, and many future top NFL players and coaches got their start in the new league, including several who were later inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame and/or the College Football Hall of Fame. The Michigan Panthers won the first USFL championship in 1983. The Philadelphia Stars won the second USFL championship in 1984, and after relocating to Baltimore, won the final USFL championship in 1985 as the Baltimore Stars in what was effectively a rematch of the first USFL title game.

In August 1984, the USFL voted to move from a spring to a fall schedule in 1986 to compete directly with the NFL. This was done at the urging of New Jersey Generals majority owner Donald Trump and a handful of other owners as a way to force a merger between the leagues. As part of this strategy, the USFL filed an antitrust lawsuit against the National Football League in 1986, and a jury ruled that the NFL had violated anti-monopoly laws. However, in a victory in name only, the USFL was awarded a judgment of just $1, which under antitrust laws, was tripled to $3.[2] This court decision effectively ended the USFL's existence. The league never played its planned 1986 season, and by the time it folded, it had lost over US$163 million (over $389 million in 2021 dollars).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 12:47:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2022, 12:39:35 AM
Yep, seems that way. Quoth Wiki:

On the field, the USFL was regarded as a relatively good product. Many coaches and team executives had NFL experience, and many future top NFL players and coaches got their start in the new league, including several who were later inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame and/or the College Football Hall of Fame. The Michigan Panthers won the first USFL championship in 1983. The Philadelphia Stars won the second USFL championship in 1984, and after relocating to Baltimore, won the final USFL championship in 1985 as the Baltimore Stars in what was effectively a rematch of the first USFL title game.

In August 1984, the USFL voted to move from a spring to a fall schedule in 1986 to compete directly with the NFL. This was done at the urging of New Jersey Generals majority owner Donald Trump and a handful of other owners as a way to force a merger between the leagues. As part of this strategy, the USFL filed an antitrust lawsuit against the National Football League in 1986, and a jury ruled that the NFL had violated anti-monopoly laws. However, in a victory in name only, the USFL was awarded a judgment of just $1, which under antitrust laws, was tripled to $3.[2] This court decision effectively ended the USFL's existence. The league never played its planned 1986 season, and by the time it folded, it had lost over US$163 million (over $389 million in 2021 dollars).
The TDS is getting worse with this guy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on November 10, 2022, 05:01:29 AM
Trump derangement syndrome is that just another buzz phrase that those who claim not be sheep spout and repeat because they seen it online yet the same people who constantly say tds are obsessed which means by their logic they got Biden derangement syndrome or Pelosi derangement syndrome.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2022, 05:05:32 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/RepMattGaetz/status/1590512843388252161
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2022, 08:33:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 10, 2022, 05:01:29 AM
Trump derangement syndrome is that just another buzz phrase that those who claim not be sheep spout and repeat because they seen it online yet the same people who constantly say tds are obsessed which means by their logic they got Biden derangement syndrome or Pelosi derangement syndrome.

Oh no......it's real alright

It's just the other side of the coin to the election deniers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on November 10, 2022, 09:46:21 AM
will trump and desantis tear each other apart
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2022, 11:51:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2022, 08:33:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 10, 2022, 05:01:29 AM
Trump derangement syndrome is that just another buzz phrase that those who claim not be sheep spout and repeat because they seen it online yet the same people who constantly say tds are obsessed which means by their logic they got Biden derangement syndrome or Pelosi derangement syndrome.

Oh no......it's real alright

It's just the other side of the coin to the election deniers

No it's not.

Election denialism is based on bullshit and fantasy, and is rooted in one man's fragile ego.

Concern with and alarm about Trump is based on a track record of the actual damage the man has done, election denialism being only one issue.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2022, 11:55:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2022, 11:51:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2022, 08:33:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 10, 2022, 05:01:29 AM
Trump derangement syndrome is that just another buzz phrase that those who claim not be sheep spout and repeat because they seen it online yet the same people who constantly say tds are obsessed which means by their logic they got Biden derangement syndrome or Pelosi derangement syndrome.

Oh no......it's real alright

It's just the other side of the coin to the election deniers

No it's not.

Election denialism is based on bullshit and fantasy, and is rooted in one man's fragile ego.

Concern with and alarm about Trump is based on a track record of the actual damage the man has done, election denialism being only one issue.

LOL


Says the person who believed very c**k a mamey Russian conspiracy theory
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2022, 12:03:20 PM
The results were very important

https://www.ft.com/content/a8cc15d8-e35a-11e9-9743-db5a370481bc

Facing divided, radicalised and unconvincing political opponents, the Trump-Johnson strategy could yet triumph. That strategy, it should now be clear, involves contempt for the rule of law, the trashing of national institutions, fostering an atmosphere of violence and deliberately widening bitter divisions within the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 12:34:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2022, 12:03:20 PM
The results were very important

https://www.ft.com/content/a8cc15d8-e35a-11e9-9743-db5a370481bc

Facing divided, radicalised and unconvincing political opponents, the Trump-Johnson strategy could yet triumph. That strategy, it should now be clear, involves contempt for the rule of law, the trashing of national institutions, fostering an atmosphere of violence and deliberately widening bitter divisions within the country.
ah no , unmarried women are republicans problem
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2022, 12:54:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2022, 11:55:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2022, 11:51:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2022, 08:33:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 10, 2022, 05:01:29 AM
Trump derangement syndrome is that just another buzz phrase that those who claim not be sheep spout and repeat because they seen it online yet the same people who constantly say tds are obsessed which means by their logic they got Biden derangement syndrome or Pelosi derangement syndrome.

Oh no......it's real alright

It's just the other side of the coin to the election deniers

No it's not.

Election denialism is based on bullshit and fantasy, and is rooted in one man's fragile ego.

Concern with and alarm about Trump is based on a track record of the actual damage the man has done, election denialism being only one issue.

LOL


Says the person who believed very c**k a mamey Russian conspiracy theory

Which Russian conspiracy theory was this now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2022, 01:21:40 PM
Reports of Murdoch turning on Trump appear to be true.

NY Post leading with "Trumpty Dumpty" and an opinion piece christening him "Toxic Trump"!😀


https://nypost.com/?sp_amp_linker=1*11zznsc*amp_id*SzRwZy1jdlM3aWN4UEZJdjVuSHlfNjl3NTU5dFhSeUxETG8zUzNvZ0dPQlgwS21TS2hBSW9YQTZXeC03QTd2Yw..&_gl=1*i4pe4a*_ga*anVuelpQcUNMbG54aXRqaFJQZmlmTXYxSFlxQ3FJc0FrdFI3T2laU2VYaVFQSFI4LTFBTXNfV3NxU3B4VHZzeg.. (https://nypost.com/?sp_amp_linker=1*11zznsc*amp_id*SzRwZy1jdlM3aWN4UEZJdjVuSHlfNjl3NTU5dFhSeUxETG8zUzNvZ0dPQlgwS21TS2hBSW9YQTZXeC03QTd2Yw..&_gl=1*i4pe4a*_ga*anVuelpQcUNMbG54aXRqaFJQZmlmTXYxSFlxQ3FJc0FrdFI3T2laU2VYaVFQSFI4LTFBTXNfV3NxU3B4VHZzeg..)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 10, 2022, 01:46:24 PM
Trump is getting a little jealous of the attention that DeSantis is getting

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/109315822774097761

@realDonaldTrump

Now that the Election in Florida is over, and everything went quite well, shouldn't it be said that in 2020, I got 1.1 Million more votes in Florida than Ron D got this year, 5.7 Million to 4.6 Million? Just asking?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2022, 02:37:37 PM
The Dems mightn't even need the Georgia runoff to control the Senate. The results are a catastrophe for the GOP
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2022, 03:05:06 PM
My head is hurting

I had a MAGA Republican ranting and raving about Maricopa County to me this morning

I just heard some type of election supervisor/official on the news from Maricopa County

And he had an R after his name

I give up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 10, 2022, 04:11:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2022, 03:05:06 PM
My head is hurting

I had a MAGA Republican ranting and raving about Maricopa County to me this morning

I just heard some type of election supervisor/official on the news from Maricopa County

And he had an R after his name

I give up

Is this someone you know well? Do you think he actually believes the election stealing stuff or is it just an emotional reaction to losing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2022, 05:30:40 PM
Someone put together Fox News types juicing themselves about the Red Wave and Red Tsunami in the lead up to the election. ;D

https://twitter.com/i/status/1590644425092657152 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1590644425092657152)

Its amusing seeing Boebert in there, given how she's literally clinging to her seat by a few hundred votes as counting nears completion and may end up in a recount.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2022, 05:40:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2022, 03:05:06 PM
My head is hurting

I had a MAGA Republican ranting and raving about Maricopa County to me this morning

I just heard some type of election supervisor/official on the news from Maricopa County

And he had an R after his name

I give up

The MAGA crowd have been after the country recorder, who basically oversees elections and property records in Maricopa, for a couple of months now.

Even though he is a life long Republican who took over from a Democrat.

His crime is NOT agreeing with their "assertions" about 2020.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2022, 06:57:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2022, 07:17:11 PM
Mike the pillow guy says "they're stealing everything".

There's only so much you can say about "the woke" before people look at their lives and realise how little it's actually an issue and more something that has been created online . . . thing seem to be going back to normal with concessions and the like and no real serious people talking about stealing and fraud so hopefully we're seeing the end of that.

Trump looks goosed all we can hope for is he does enough damage to DeSantis.

Is there any serious opposition to Biden within the Democrats? While he has steadied the ship (in relative terms of course there has to be better in the White House) the WH could do with some new Democrat blood let's be honest!

I think Newsom's our best bet. The right wing spin machine constantly spins California as some sort of bankrupt failed state, but none of it is based in fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2022, 06:59:17 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 10, 2022, 05:01:29 AM
Trump derangement syndrome is that just another buzz phrase that those who claim not be sheep spout and repeat because they seen it online yet the same people who constantly say tds are obsessed which means by their logic they got Biden derangement syndrome or Pelosi derangement syndrome.

Yes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on November 10, 2022, 08:47:38 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 09, 2022, 07:17:11 PM
Mike the pillow guy says "they're stealing everything".

There's only so much you can say about "the woke" before people look at their lives and realise how little it's actually an issue and more something that has been created online . . . thing seem to be going back to normal with concessions and the like and no real serious people talking about stealing and fraud so hopefully we're seeing the end of that.

Trump looks goosed all we can hope for is he does enough damage to DeSantis.

Is there any serious opposition to Biden within the Democrats? While he has steadied the ship (in relative terms of course there has to be better in the White House) the WH could do with some new Democrat blood let's be honest!

Steadied the ship after Trump? Not enough reason for him to run again though. He's 80 in a couple of weeks. Imagine having a President at 86 if he did get re-elected. Madness. He's like a walking corpse at moment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2022, 09:02:56 PM
Quote from: dec on November 10, 2022, 01:46:24 PM
Trump is getting a little jealous of the attention that DeSantis is getting

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/109315822774097761

@realDonaldTrump

Now that the Election in Florida is over, and everything went quite well, shouldn't it be said that in 2020, I got 1.1 Million more votes in Florida than Ron D got this year, 5.7 Million to 4.6 Million? Just asking?

How pathetic and needy is that??

He's as self aware as someone a tenth of his age and is either extremely stupid or assumes the public is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on November 11, 2022, 03:07:49 AM
if trump loses nomination to desantis he could run as an independent  just to spite him trump and trump could announce this before the primarys to sow doubt into desantis voters basically you either  vote me or its biden.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on November 11, 2022, 03:57:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .

Only reason Biden is there is Trump. If Trump runs again Bidden will  run &  beat him again . If it is Biden verse DeSantis  , DeSantis will win easily . I would go as far as to say  Any Republican  bar Trump would beat Biden .


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on November 11, 2022, 04:29:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on November 11, 2022, 03:57:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .

Only reason Biden is there is Trump. If Trump runs again Bidden will  run &  beat him again . If it is Biden verse DeSantis  , DeSantis will win easily . I would go as far as to say  Any Republican  bar Trump would beat Biden .

unless trump runs as independent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on November 11, 2022, 07:27:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .

He's pone to the odd gaffe but generally he's doing a brilliant job. He's a proper politician and it's great to see a mature adult in the white house after 4 years of madness and corruption. The midterm results were the best for a president in a long time and a nice endorsement of the great job Biden is doing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2022, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 11, 2022, 04:29:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on November 11, 2022, 03:57:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .

Only reason Biden is there is Trump. If Trump runs again Bidden will  run &  beat him again . If it is Biden verse DeSantis  , DeSantis will win easily . I would go as far as to say  Any Republican  bar Trump would beat Biden .

unless trump runs as independent

I have no doubt he'll do that if he doesn't get the nomination

They only have themselves to blame

They could have put a stake through his head after Jan 6th but didn't

The chickens are coming home to roost
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on November 11, 2022, 11:43:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2022, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 11, 2022, 04:29:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on November 11, 2022, 03:57:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .

Only reason Biden is there is Trump. If Trump runs again Bidden will  run &  beat him again . If it is Biden verse DeSantis  , DeSantis will win easily . I would go as far as to say  Any Republican  bar Trump would beat Biden .

unless trump runs as independent

I have no doubt he'll do that if he doesn't get the nomination

They only have themselves to blame

They could have put a stake through his head after Jan 6th but didn't

The chickens are coming home to roost

Trump is so childish and immature that he will only run if he thinks he's guaranteed to win. He's got no chance as an independent so he is now extremely unlikely to run.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2022, 12:29:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .

Poor Gmac.

Whatever Biden is or isn't, what he absolutely isn't is a threat to democracy.

And that will do nicely for now.

As for Trump, his predicament and failure is THE story of this election. So discussion of it is hardly a sign of TDS.

FFS you yourself have said on this thread its time for the GOP to move on. But unfortunately for you, the orange toddler is not going to make that easy. And that is also a major part of the current political discussion in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2022, 12:32:11 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on November 11, 2022, 03:57:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .

Only reason Biden is there is Trump. If Trump runs again Bidden will  run &  beat him again . If it is Biden verse DeSantis  , DeSantis will win easily . I would go as far as to say  Any Republican  bar Trump would beat Biden .

Yes, and the GOP knows this.

Unfortunately for them, Trump's ego and the GOP base, a large section of whom are loyal to Trump, not the party, will make it extremely difficult and damaging for the party to move on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2022, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 11, 2022, 11:43:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2022, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 11, 2022, 04:29:17 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on November 11, 2022, 03:57:35 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .

Only reason Biden is there is Trump. If Trump runs again Bidden will  run &  beat him again . If it is Biden verse DeSantis  , DeSantis will win easily . I would go as far as to say  Any Republican  bar Trump would beat Biden .

unless trump runs as independent

I have no doubt he'll do that if he doesn't get the nomination

They only have themselves to blame

They could have put a stake through his head after Jan 6th but didn't

The chickens are coming home to roost

Trump is so childish and immature that he will only run if he thinks he's guaranteed to win. He's got no chance as an independent so he is now extremely unlikely to run.

As of now, Tuesday night's announcement is still on.

He wants to get in the ring to intimidate others from doing so.

And he also hopes that a declared candidacy might head off the Justice Dept.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2022, 01:44:51 PM
It's still 48 to 49 for the Senate with Georgia in runoff.
The GOP have lost 3 elections in a row
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 11, 2022, 02:10:01 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 11, 2022, 07:27:03 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
The TDS on the thread is getting worse , the current president is non compos mentis and there's not a word about it from 99% of posters .

He's pone to the odd gaffe but generally he's doing a brilliant job. He's a proper politician and it's great to see a mature adult in the white house after 4 years of madness and corruption. The midterm results were the best for a president in a long time and a nice endorsement of the great job Biden is doing.
100%
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 11, 2022, 02:32:23 PM
Another Republican governor, Glenn Youngkin of Virginia, failed to suck up to Trump enough.

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/109325150085362681

"Young Kin (now that's an interesting take. Sounds Chinese, doesn't it?) in Virginia couldn't have won without me...."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2022, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: dec on November 11, 2022, 02:32:23 PM
Another Republican governor, Glenn Youngkin of Virginia, failed to suck up to Trump enough.

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/109325150085362681

"Young Kin (now that's an interesting take. Sounds Chinese, doesn't it?) in Virginia couldn't have won without me...."

So we get the histrionics, the bitterness, the self-pity AND the appeals to bigotry and xenophobia, all in one little sentence.

This is just one of his posts in his current tantrum (and Gmac thinks it's all TDS  ;D).

Are there people out there who REALLY want this nonsense back in our daily lives?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2022, 03:10:25 PM
The future of the Republican Party should be people like Baker, Younkin, Sinunu, Hogan and to a lesser extent DeSantis

Fiscally conservative, socially moderate, common sense on crime and immigration

But there are so many idiots in the base of the party the chances of these guys taking over are slim to none

Lindsey Graham-who's doesn't have kids and isn't even married thinks it's a great idea to bring in a national abortion ban

Mike Lee wants to get rid of Social Security

Rick Scott wants to get rid of Medicare

They deserve to get wiped out

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2022, 03:14:36 PM
Scott is a weird one if what you say is true.

He is the junior Senator from Florida!

And he was head of a for-profit hospital corporation that received multiple felony convictions for defrauding Medicare, Medicaid and so on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 11, 2022, 06:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2022, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: dec on November 11, 2022, 02:32:23 PM
Another Republican governor, Glenn Youngkin of Virginia, failed to suck up to Trump enough.

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/109325150085362681

"Young Kin (now that's an interesting take. Sounds Chinese, doesn't it?) in Virginia couldn't have won without me...."

So we get the histrionics, the bitterness, the self-pity AND the appeals to bigotry and xenophobia, all in one little sentence.

This is just one of his posts in his current tantrum (and Gmac thinks it's all TDS  ;D).

Are there people out there who REALLY want this nonsense back in our daily lives?
are you on truth social j70 ✊lol
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2022, 06:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 11, 2022, 06:14:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2022, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: dec on November 11, 2022, 02:32:23 PM
Another Republican governor, Glenn Youngkin of Virginia, failed to suck up to Trump enough.

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/109325150085362681

"Young Kin (now that's an interesting take. Sounds Chinese, doesn't it?) in Virginia couldn't have won without me...."

So we get the histrionics, the bitterness, the self-pity AND the appeals to bigotry and xenophobia, all in one little sentence.

This is just one of his posts in his current tantrum (and Gmac thinks it's all TDS  ;D).

Are there people out there who REALLY want this nonsense back in our daily lives?
are you on truth social j70 ✊lol

I signed up day 1. Is that a sign of TDS? ;)

Nah, I've read about some of his rage postings on The Bulwark and the like.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2022, 06:05:47 AM
Kelly won Arizona so it's 49-49 for the Senate.
It looks like Nevada is going the same way.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 12, 2022, 08:52:52 AM
Now that she won, will she still rant its fixed, doesn't take much to be a politician in America, in a way abit like Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on November 12, 2022, 11:47:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2022, 03:10:25 PM
The future of the Republican Party should be people like ......
As it stands now, the Republican party is the nationalistic fascist QAnon, infected with a myriad of  conspiracy theories and fanatic religious beliefs,  a party who has as its aim  to drag the USA back into their dogmatic interpretation of what some legislators penned in the 18C.
You think they have a future?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 13, 2022, 12:02:06 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 12, 2022, 08:52:52 AM
Now that she won, will she still rant its fixed, doesn't take much to be a politician in America, in a way abit like Northern Ireland.

Who do you mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2022, 03:04:45 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2022, 11:47:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2022, 03:10:25 PM
The future of the Republican Party should be people like ......
As it stands now, the Republican party is the nationalistic fascist QAnon, infected with a myriad of  conspiracy theories and fanatic religious beliefs,  a party who has as its aim  to drag the USA back into their dogmatic interpretation of what some legislators penned in the 18C.
You think they have a future?

Of course they have a future and a very bright one at that....they just need to get rid of the crazies

Theres some great candidates such as Younkin and Desantis who would give any Democrat a real run for their money in a Presidential match up

If Trump hadnt screwed up the mid terms by promoting a bunch of absolute clowns the red wave would have been very very real
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2022, 05:59:04 AM
That's it! Democratic Senate!

So much for the "red wave!"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bennydorano on November 13, 2022, 08:56:08 AM
Will Biden really run again?? He certainly looks physically & mentally very frail at times, if not, I'm assuming Harris wouldn't be the anointed one to run? Would it be an open field? Biden might beat Trump again but not De Santis imo.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 13, 2022, 01:29:27 PM
Biden in my opinion to old to run, same as Trump, not oldism but persons of retirement age should not be running for the presidency. It never happens in the UK or, Ireland. Though we had old foggy Paisley for awhile up North. Harris you never see her, invisible tv/news wise anyway when compared to Mike Spence previous. Couldn't see her win a term in office to be honest but Biden in my opinion to old to go another term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2022, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2022, 05:59:04 AM
That's it! Democratic Senate!

So much for the "red wave!"
Except for Manchin
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 13, 2022, 03:02:04 PM
Won't need him if they win the run-off in Georgia.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 13, 2022, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2022, 05:59:04 AM
That's it! Democratic Senate!

So much for the "red wave!"

Without being too clued up on thr intricacies of the 2 houses, is there any merit to having one without the other? My understanding was you needed both to pass legislation?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 13, 2022, 10:04:11 PM
2 main ones that I know of:

Senate has a role in appointing SC judges if any vacancies arise.

Various budget committees operate only in the Senate.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 13, 2022, 10:15:40 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 13, 2022, 10:04:11 PM
Senate has a role in appointing SC judges if any vacancies arise.

Not just Supreme court, there are actually appeal courts and district courts below that and the judges for that are also appointed by the President and approved by the Senate. McConnell has shown that he is willing to deny Democratic appointed judges a hearing if he gets the chance.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2022, 10:33:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 13, 2022, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2022, 05:59:04 AM
That's it! Democratic Senate!

So much for the "red wave!"

Without being too clued up on thr intricacies of the 2 houses, is there any merit to having one without the other? My understanding was you needed both to pass legislation?

Typically a divided government is viewed as goo for the economy and the stock market


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/economy/story/2020-11-13/is-a-divided-government-good-for-the-economy

Also can be perceived as positive from a political standpoint

https://www.cato.org/commentary/government-works-better-when-divided


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 14, 2022, 04:22:45 AM
From NYT  (just to clarify: when they write "limiting Republicans' opportunity to ... impeach and remove him", this is misleading. Biden can still be impeached, as that happens in the House.  To be removed from office, that requires a 60-40 vote in the senate, which is why Trump was twice impeached, but not removed from office either time.  So holding the senate or narrowly failing to do so wouldn't make a difference in terms of the likelihood of Biden being removed).

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/us/politics/senate-democrats-republicans.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/us/politics/senate-democrats-republicans.html)

While their margin of control in the chamber will remain razor thin — and far short of the supermajority needed to pass major legislation — it constitutes a lifeline for Mr. Biden, limiting Republicans' opportunity to wreak havoc on his agenda or to impeach and remove him or other members of his administration.

Democrats will retain the power to unilaterally confirm scores of additional Biden-appointed judges. They will also keep control of the Senate floor, allowing them to ensure that, should Republicans win the House majority, any legislation that could frustrate Mr. Biden's agenda or make life politically difficult for him and other Democrats never sees the light of day in the other chamber.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2022, 11:22:27 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 14, 2022, 04:22:45 AM
From NYT  (just to clarify: when they write "limiting Republicans' opportunity to ... impeach and remove him", this is misleading. Biden can still be impeached, as that happens in the House.  To be removed from office, that requires a 60-40 vote in the senate, which is why Trump was twice impeached, but not removed from office either time.  So holding the senate or narrowly failing to do so wouldn't make a difference in terms of the likelihood of Biden being removed).

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/us/politics/senate-democrats-republicans.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/us/politics/senate-democrats-republicans.html)

While their margin of control in the chamber will remain razor thin — and far short of the supermajority needed to pass major legislation — it constitutes a lifeline for Mr. Biden, limiting Republicans' opportunity to wreak havoc on his agenda or to impeach and remove him or other members of his administration.

Democrats will retain the power to unilaterally confirm scores of additional Biden-appointed judges. They will also keep control of the Senate floor, allowing them to ensure that, should Republicans win the House majority, any legislation that could frustrate Mr. Biden's agenda or make life politically difficult for him and other Democrats never sees the light of day in the other chamber.

The Republicans won't be able to get very much done themselves but might just use it to obstruct Bidens agenda

They might also have a problem with their "investigation". Clowns like MTG and Boebert won't sign on for anything less than all out war
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2022, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 14, 2022, 04:22:45 AM
From NYT  (just to clarify: when they write "limiting Republicans' opportunity to ... impeach and remove him", this is misleading. Biden can still be impeached, as that happens in the House.  To be removed from office, that requires a 60-40 vote in the senate, which is why Trump was twice impeached, but not removed from office either time.  So holding the senate or narrowly failing to do so wouldn't make a difference in terms of the likelihood of Biden being removed).

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/us/politics/senate-democrats-republicans.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/us/politics/senate-democrats-republicans.html)

While their margin of control in the chamber will remain razor thin — and far short of the supermajority needed to pass major legislation — it constitutes a lifeline for Mr. Biden, limiting Republicans' opportunity to wreak havoc on his agenda or to impeach and remove him or other members of his administration.

Democrats will retain the power to unilaterally confirm scores of additional Biden-appointed judges. They will also keep control of the Senate floor, allowing them to ensure that, should Republicans win the House majority, any legislation that could frustrate Mr. Biden's agenda or make life politically difficult for him and other Democrats never sees the light of day in the other chamber.

Yup. What about the debt ceiling though? Can't the House Rethuglicans go back to the old hostage-taking trick of threatening a sovereign debt default if they don't get some bogus demand met?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 14, 2022, 08:43:56 PM
McCarthy is going to have a tough job.

Hope the poison chalice was worth his dignity and manhood.

I don't know how the man looks himself in the mirror with the way he has sold his soul for Trump's lies and tantrums.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 14, 2022, 09:43:39 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2022, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 14, 2022, 04:22:45 AM
From NYT  (just to clarify: when they write "limiting Republicans' opportunity to ... impeach and remove him", this is misleading. Biden can still be impeached, as that happens in the House.  To be removed from office, that requires a 60-40 vote in the senate, which is why Trump was twice impeached, but not removed from office either time.  So holding the senate or narrowly failing to do so wouldn't make a difference in terms of the likelihood of Biden being removed).

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/us/politics/senate-democrats-republicans.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/us/politics/senate-democrats-republicans.html)

While their margin of control in the chamber will remain razor thin — and far short of the supermajority needed to pass major legislation — it constitutes a lifeline for Mr. Biden, limiting Republicans' opportunity to wreak havoc on his agenda or to impeach and remove him or other members of his administration.

Democrats will retain the power to unilaterally confirm scores of additional Biden-appointed judges. They will also keep control of the Senate floor, allowing them to ensure that, should Republicans win the House majority, any legislation that could frustrate Mr. Biden's agenda or make life politically difficult for him and other Democrats never sees the light of day in the other chamber.

Yup. What about the debt ceiling though? Can't the House Rethuglicans go back to the old hostage-taking trick of threatening a sovereign debt default if they don't get some bogus demand met?

Maybe. There's been some talk of preemptively raising the ceiling so it doesn't get to that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2022, 06:52:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2022, 10:33:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 13, 2022, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2022, 05:59:04 AM
That's it! Democratic Senate!

So much for the "red wave!"

Without being too clued up on thr intricacies of the 2 houses, is there any merit to having one without the other? My understanding was you needed both to pass legislation?

Typically a divided government is viewed as goo for the economy and the stock market


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/economy/story/2020-11-13/is-a-divided-government-good-for-the-economy

Also can be perceived as positive from a political standpoint

https://www.cato.org/commentary/government-works-better-when-divided
The stock market is going to continue to tank . JP Morgan have a 50% estimate of a crash next year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 15, 2022, 07:10:42 PM
That'd be smart. Rethuglicans rely on low-information voters who don't understand that the debt ceiling is about paying bills that have already been run up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 16, 2022, 01:53:06 AM
Trump has officially filled paperwork to be a candidate in 2024
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Armagh18 on November 16, 2022, 08:23:01 AM
Quote from: dec on November 16, 2022, 01:53:06 AM
Trump has officially filled paperwork to be a candidate in 2024
He'll walk it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2022, 10:44:55 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 16, 2022, 08:23:01 AM
Quote from: dec on November 16, 2022, 01:53:06 AM
Trump has officially filled paperwork to be a candidate in 2024
He'll walk it

No he won't.

He's the only Republican Biden can and will beat.

People are fed up with the Trump freak show. Multiple elections have shown this. If making the libs cry is your thing, the likes of DeSantis can do it just as well within the normal bounds of politics, without the naked racism, narcissism, corruption, wannabe-dictator-tendencies, and mafia boss-like demand for personal loyalty to him above all else.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 16, 2022, 01:02:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 10:44:55 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 16, 2022, 08:23:01 AM
Quote from: dec on November 16, 2022, 01:53:06 AM
Trump has officially filled paperwork to be a candidate in 2024
He'll walk it

No he won't.

He's the only Republican Biden can and will beat.

People are fed up with the Trump freak show. Multiple elections have shown this. If making the libs cry is your thing, the likes of DeSantis can do it just as well within the normal bounds of politics, without the naked racism, narcissism, corruption, wannabe-dictator-tendencies, and mafia boss-like demand for personal loyalty to him above all else.

I think a Republican civil war is a very likely outcome

Trumps base hate centrists/RINOS almost as much as they hate Democrats

But a lot of Trumps base have completely soured on him after the midterms-they woke up the morning after the election and instead of an X Box found a lump of coal in their sock
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on November 16, 2022, 05:46:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2022, 01:02:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 10:44:55 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 16, 2022, 08:23:01 AM
Quote from: dec on November 16, 2022, 01:53:06 AM
Trump has officially filled paperwork to be a candidate in 2024
He'll walk it

No he won't.

He's the only Republican Biden can and will beat.

People are fed up with the Trump freak show. Multiple elections have shown this. If making the libs cry is your thing, the likes of DeSantis can do it just as well within the normal bounds of politics, without the naked racism, narcissism, corruption, wannabe-dictator-tendencies, and mafia boss-like demand for personal loyalty to him above all else.

I think a Republican civil war is a very likely outcome

Trumps base hate centrists/RINOS almost as much as they hate Democrats

But a lot of Trumps base have completely soured on him after the midterms-they woke up the morning after the election and instead of an X Box found a lump of coal in their sock

After leading an unsuccessful coup Trump is now running for president. The last person to do that was Hitler.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 07:09:02 PM
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1592893989241618438?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1592893989241618438%7Ctwgr%5E2f0bd780b417e0f1c524f1df12725d80a7d715a4%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Ftrump-supporters-desantis%2F (https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1592893989241618438?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1592893989241618438%7Ctwgr%5E2f0bd780b417e0f1c524f1df12725d80a7d715a4%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Ftrump-supporters-desantis%2F)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 16, 2022, 07:53:35 PM
Trump got no chance, I say there's a fair bet he not ever  get the republican nomination but got to take into consideration how many dummies, crackpots, gun toting and racists elements have his backing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on November 16, 2022, 07:54:35 PM
The page 26 story is pretty good as well

Been there, Don that
With just 720 days to go before the next election, a Florida retiree made the surprise announcement that he was running for president. In a move no political pundit saw coming, avid golfer Donald J. Trump kicked things off at Mar-a-Lago, his resort and classified-documents library. Trump, famous for gold-plated lobbies and for firing people on realtity television, will be 78 in 2024. If elected, Trump would tie Joe Biden as the oldest president to take office. His cholesterol levels are unknown, but his favorite food is a charred steak with ketchup. He has stated that his qualifications for office include being a "stable genius." Trump also served as the 45th president.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhr-avjWYAAEoiY?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 16, 2022, 09:27:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

I hope to God he runs as an independent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on November 16, 2022, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 16, 2022, 09:27:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

I hope to God he runs as an independent.

Please God, if a decent republican ran he would lose all those looney, conspiracy theory nut case voters to an independent trump. That'd split the hard right vote in two and leave an easy run for a Democrat.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2022, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

More pointedly: can he bilk more money out of his base on the basis of him running, that he will then keep for himself?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2022, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

More pointedly: can he bilk more money out of his base on the basis of him running, that he will then keep for himself?

US political funding is so fucked up I'm sure he probably could. Sure charge his campaign 500% over cost for the use of Mara Lago and his plane and so on, and he can funnel any amount of rube money into his own pockets.

Sure he and his sprogs fleeced the tax payer, even charging exorbitant fees to the Secret Service for rooms in their properties for the presidential party details.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 17, 2022, 03:59:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2022, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

More pointedly: can he bilk more money out of his base on the basis of him running, that he will then keep for himself?

US political funding is so fucked up I'm sure he probably could. Sure charge his campaign 500% over cost for the use of Mara Lago and his plane and so on, and he can funnel any amount of rube money into his own pockets.

Sure he and his sprogs fleeced the tax payer, even charging exorbitant fees to the Secret Service for rooms in their properties for the presidential party details.

The best ever was paying Kimberley Guilfoyle $60K for a (<) 3 minute speech

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/06/13/politics/kimberly-guilfoyle-paid-60000-speaking-fee-ellipse-january-6/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 17, 2022, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2022, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

More pointedly: can he bilk more money out of his base on the basis of him running, that he will then keep for himself?

US political funding is so fucked up I'm sure he probably could. Sure charge his campaign 500% over cost for the use of Mara Lago and his plane and so on, and he can funnel any amount of rube money into his own pockets.

Sure he and his sprogs fleeced the tax payer, even charging exorbitant fees to the Secret Service for rooms in their properties for the presidential party details.
ftx ceo con man donated 40m over last election cycle to democrats and was and they had him as a consultant about crypto currency policy ,only to be out done by the great Hungarian George Soros with 128m
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2022, 04:18:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 17, 2022, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2022, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

More pointedly: can he bilk more money out of his base on the basis of him running, that he will then keep for himself?

US political funding is so fucked up I'm sure he probably could. Sure charge his campaign 500% over cost for the use of Mara Lago and his plane and so on, and he can funnel any amount of rube money into his own pockets.

Sure he and his sprogs fleeced the tax payer, even charging exorbitant fees to the Secret Service for rooms in their properties for the presidential party details.
ftx ceo con man donated 40m over last election cycle to democrats and was and they had him as a consultant about crypto currency policy ,only to be out done by the great Hungarian George Soros with 128m

Like I said, US political funding is completely fucked up.

Whether its the purchase of influence, and indeed, politicians themselves, by people with deep pockets, the use of fund raising as a personal piggy bank, or simply raising campaign funds through misleading people.

Ted Cruz raised a fortune two years ago for the Georgia senate seat run-offs ("Keep Georgia Red"). Do you how much of the funds went into those races?

Zero.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2022, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2022, 03:59:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2022, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

More pointedly: can he bilk more money out of his base on the basis of him running, that he will then keep for himself?

US political funding is so fucked up I'm sure he probably could. Sure charge his campaign 500% over cost for the use of Mara Lago and his plane and so on, and he can funnel any amount of rube money into his own pockets.

Sure he and his sprogs fleeced the tax payer, even charging exorbitant fees to the Secret Service for rooms in their properties for the presidential party details.

The best ever was paying Kimberley Guilfoyle $60K for a (<) 3 minute speech

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/06/13/politics/kimberly-guilfoyle-paid-60000-speaking-fee-ellipse-january-6/index.html

The place I work has a lot of people who barely or don't even make that over a year.

I'm sure it was a fine speech though!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 17, 2022, 05:08:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 17, 2022, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2022, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

More pointedly: can he bilk more money out of his base on the basis of him running, that he will then keep for himself?

US political funding is so fucked up I'm sure he probably could. Sure charge his campaign 500% over cost for the use of Mara Lago and his plane and so on, and he can funnel any amount of rube money into his own pockets.

Sure he and his sprogs fleeced the tax payer, even charging exorbitant fees to the Secret Service for rooms in their properties for the presidential party details.
ftx ceo con man donated 40m over last election cycle to democrats and was and they had him as a consultant about crypto currency policy ,only to be out done by the great Hungarian George Soros with 128m

Can you imagine if the Republicans had a crypto savant pull a stroke like that

The Democrats would have jumped into a river at this point with outrage
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2022, 05:40:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2022, 05:08:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 17, 2022, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2022, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

More pointedly: can he bilk more money out of his base on the basis of him running, that he will then keep for himself?

US political funding is so fucked up I'm sure he probably could. Sure charge his campaign 500% over cost for the use of Mara Lago and his plane and so on, and he can funnel any amount of rube money into his own pockets.

Sure he and his sprogs fleeced the tax payer, even charging exorbitant fees to the Secret Service for rooms in their properties for the presidential party details.
ftx ceo con man donated 40m over last election cycle to democrats and was and they had him as a consultant about crypto currency policy ,only to be out done by the great Hungarian George Soros with 128m

Can you imagine if the Republicans had a crypto savant pull a stroke like that

The Democrats would have jumped into a river at this point with outrage

And the millions one of his execs, Salame, gave to GOP candidates?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on November 17, 2022, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2022, 05:40:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 17, 2022, 05:08:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 17, 2022, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2022, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
NY Post front page today ( check bottom)

;D

https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/ (https://nypost.com/cover/november-16-2022/)

Murdoch isn't messing around.

Lol flip me they really aren't giving him any oxygen this time are they?

Has he the money to run as an independant? Actually that's a stupid question...

More pointedly: can he bilk more money out of his base on the basis of him running, that he will then keep for himself?

US political funding is so fucked up I'm sure he probably could. Sure charge his campaign 500% over cost for the use of Mara Lago and his plane and so on, and he can funnel any amount of rube money into his own pockets.

Sure he and his sprogs fleeced the tax payer, even charging exorbitant fees to the Secret Service for rooms in their properties for the presidential party details.
ftx ceo con man donated 40m over last election cycle to democrats and was and they had him as a consultant about crypto currency policy ,only to be out done by the great Hungarian George Soros with 128m

Can you imagine if the Republicans had a crypto savant pull a stroke like that

The Democrats would have jumped into a river at this point with outrage

And the millions one of his execs, Salame, gave to GOP candidates?


Didn't even know about that.

That puts a different complexion on what went down

(Edit-the person who was telling me about it claimed that the Democrats were giving money to the Ukrainians, who in turn were buying crypto from FTX, who in turn were then donating that money to the Democrats. I told them that was a wild conspiracy theory)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on November 17, 2022, 06:57:26 PM
On another subject it is a joke that votes are still being counted in a super rich western democracy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on November 17, 2022, 08:08:59 PM
Yeah if only there was some sort of machine that made voting easier, and counting votes easier, it would be widely welcomed by Democrats and conservatives alike
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2022, 08:49:30 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/10/13/short-if-the-fed-waits-for-core-inflation-to-hit-2-percent-itll-drive-economy-into-depression-says-jeremy-siegel.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 03, 2022, 06:35:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

The January 6th committee has been investigating the attempt by Trump and the Republicans to steal the 2020 presidential election. In Georgia there is an investigation into the Republican's attempt to appoint fake electors.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:41:53 PM
Quote from: dec on December 03, 2022, 06:35:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

The January 6th committee has been investigating the attempt by Trump and the Republicans to steal the 2020 presidential election. In Georgia there is an investigation into the Republican's attempt to appoint fake electors.
good , now let's do everything else
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 03, 2022, 06:53:21 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.

You'll have to explain that one to him - starting with what the first amendment means
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It's Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let's concentrate on the 0.01 because it's Trump .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It's Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let's concentrate on the 0.01 because it's Trump .

I've criticised both Trump and Biden on here. But nice try. Trump broke the First Ammendment. Now that is a fact.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It's Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let's concentrate on the 0.01 because it's Trump .

I've criticised both Trump and Biden on here. But nice try. Trump broke the First Ammendment. Now that is a fact.
good, so what should happen now ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech… Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed…
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It’s Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let’s concentrate on the 0.01 because it’s Trump .

I've criticised both Trump and Biden on here. But nice try. Trump broke the First Ammendment. Now that is a fact.
good, so what should happen now ?

So what is new ? Trump had National Enquirer   ""catch and kill stories"'  Same shite ,  some  of the media do it because of partisan reasons others may do it because they dont trust 'the source,   I don't see the issue ,  I don't expect any media to tell the truth ? I don't see the issue , Have They/We decided that Twitter is suppose to be more Honest than the rest ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 03, 2022, 09:48:17 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It's Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let's concentrate on the 0.01 because it's Trump .

I've criticised both Trump and Biden on here. But nice try. Trump broke the First Ammendment. Now that is a fact.
good, so what should happen now ?

So what is new ? Trump had National Enquirer   ""catch and kill stories"'  Same shite ,  some  of the media do it because of partisan reasons others may do it because they dont trust 'the source,   I don't see the issue ,  I don't expect any media to tell the truth ? I don't see the issue , Have They/We decided that Twitter is suppose to be more Honest than the rest ?

Never mind the National Inquirer

What about the main stream media?

Pushing a false story as true......the dossier/Russian Collusion

Pushing a true story as false.......Hunter Biden laptop

All in an effort to try and influence the outcomes of two elections

An absolute fvckin disgrace
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 10:07:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 03, 2022, 09:48:17 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It's Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let's concentrate on the 0.01 because it's Trump .

I've criticised both Trump and Biden on here. But nice try. Trump broke the First Ammendment. Now that is a fact.
good, so what should happen now ?

So what is new ? Trump had National Enquirer   ""catch and kill stories"'  Same shite ,  some  of the media do it because of partisan reasons others may do it because they dont trust 'the source,   I don't see the issue ,  I don't expect any media to tell the truth ? I don't see the issue , Have They/We decided that Twitter is suppose to be more Honest than the rest ?

Never mind the National Inquirer

What about the main stream media?

Pushing a false story as true......the dossier/Russian Collusion

Pushing a true story as false.......Hunter Biden laptop

All in an effort to try and influence the outcomes of two elections

An absolute fvckin disgrace

Are Fox main stream? are newsmax??   Why do you expect media to be Honest ? BBC  honest ? really    Rte no cover ups ??   FFs I except Propaganda  form all news outlets etc  ? It doesnt bother me either way , Our politicians both here and at home lie all the time ? people swear in court and precede to forget everything and lie , Being like this for ever ? I just see it as normal , 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 03, 2022, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 10:07:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 03, 2022, 09:48:17 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It's Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let's concentrate on the 0.01 because it's Trump .

I've criticised both Trump and Biden on here. But nice try. Trump broke the First Ammendment. Now that is a fact.
good, so what should happen now ?

So what is new ? Trump had National Enquirer   ""catch and kill stories"'  Same shite ,  some  of the media do it because of partisan reasons others may do it because they dont trust 'the source,   I don't see the issue ,  I don't expect any media to tell the truth ? I don't see the issue , Have They/We decided that Twitter is suppose to be more Honest than the rest ?

Never mind the National Inquirer

What about the main stream media?

Pushing a false story as true......the dossier/Russian Collusion

Pushing a true story as false.......Hunter Biden laptop

All in an effort to try and influence the outcomes of two elections

An absolute fvckin disgrace

Are Fox main stream? are newsmax??   Why do you expect media to be Honest ? BBC  honest ? really    Rte no cover ups ??   FFs I except Propaganda  form all news outlets etc  ? It doesnt bother me either way , Our politicians both here and at home lie all the time ? people swear in court and precede to forget everything and lie , Being like this for ever ? I just see it as normal ,

Fox and CNN are mainstream would be regarded as ultra partisan.....one to the right and the other to the left

When you have so called respected and credible outlets the WaPo, NY Times and NPR being as dishonest and morally bankrupt as Fox......then you have a complete erosion of peoples faith n the media

I believe what I hear/read from these 3 outlets about as much as I believe Breitbart or Fox

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on December 03, 2022, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 03, 2022, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 10:07:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 03, 2022, 09:48:17 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It's Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let's concentrate on the 0.01 because it's Trump .

I've criticised both Trump and Biden on here. But nice try. Trump broke the First Ammendment. Now that is a fact.
good, so what should happen now ?

So what is new ? Trump had National Enquirer   ""catch and kill stories"'  Same shite ,  some  of the media do it because of partisan reasons others may do it because they dont trust 'the source,   I don't see the issue ,  I don't expect any media to tell the truth ? I don't see the issue , Have They/We decided that Twitter is suppose to be more Honest than the rest ?

Never mind the National Inquirer

What about the main stream media?

Pushing a false story as true......the dossier/Russian Collusion

Pushing a true story as false.......Hunter Biden laptop

All in an effort to try and influence the outcomes of two elections

An absolute fvckin disgrace

Are Fox main stream? are newsmax??   Why do you expect media to be Honest ? BBC  honest ? really    Rte no cover ups ??   FFs I except Propaganda  form all news outlets etc  ? It doesnt bother me either way , Our politicians both here and at home lie all the time ? people swear in court and precede to forget everything and lie , Being like this for ever ? I just see it as normal ,

Fox and CNN are mainstream would be regarded as ultra partisan.....one to the right and the other to the left

When you have so called respected and credible outlets the WaPo, NY Times and NPR being as dishonest and morally bankrupt as Fox......then you have a complete erosion of peoples faith n the media

I believe what I hear/read from these 3 outlets about as much as I believe Breitbart or Fox
It's a proven fact that people who use Fox News as their go to source for 'what's going on in this world', actually become progressively ignorant about what's actually going on in this world  ;D
Fox News is mostly about megaphoning 'news' that are non events.

Other that that, do you have the opinion that Russia did not seriously interfere in the 2016 pres. elections in favour of Trump?  Was it all just a mere coincidence that Russia's most prized 'useful idiot' WikiLeaks  just happened out of total coincidence  to make their timely intervention? Wise up, check out Russian Troll Factory, Ulitsa Savushkina,  St Petersburg.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 04, 2022, 01:00:55 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It's Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let's concentrate on the 0.01 because it's Trump .

I've criticised both Trump and Biden on here. But nice try. Trump broke the First Ammendment. Now that is a fact.
good, so what should happen now ?

So what is new ? Trump had National Enquirer   ""catch and kill stories"'  Same shite ,  some  of the media do it because of partisan reasons others may do it because they dont trust 'the source,   I don't see the issue ,  I don't expect any media to tell the truth ? I don't see the issue , Have They/We decided that Twitter is suppose to be more Honest than the rest ?
you think Musk and Taibi made up the emails?
do you think the  laptop story is real ?
Did  killing that story affect the election ?
The FBI are in on this censorship too according to Zuckerberg, is that normal behavior for a country like the USA ? All this is common knowledge now and not from fox or oan
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 04, 2022, 09:52:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 03, 2022, 09:48:17 PM
Quote from: fearbrags on December 03, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 03, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 03, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 03, 2022, 06:26:51 PM
The twitter revelations show how corrupt the dnc are and everything has to be on the table and openly investigated including election fraud , the Biden criminal cartel and how compromised they are , audit of every dime sent to Ukraine, basically a criminal regime is in charge of the country.

It also shows Trump broke the first ammendment.
how did that happen?

The first amendment is about the Govt restricting free speech... Trump was the head of Govt in 2020 and contacted Twitter to get posts removed...
im happy to let it all come out and be dealt with properly, you boys like to pick and choose the amendments you defend.  It's Typical of the looney left 99.99%is  about dnc and suppression of people and speech but let's concentrate on the 0.01 because it's Trump .

I've criticised both Trump and Biden on here. But nice try. Trump broke the First Ammendment. Now that is a fact.
good, so what should happen now ?

So what is new ? Trump had National Enquirer   ""catch and kill stories"'  Same shite ,  some  of the media do it because of partisan reasons others may do it because they dont trust 'the source,   I don't see the issue ,  I don't expect any media to tell the truth ? I don't see the issue , Have They/We decided that Twitter is suppose to be more Honest than the rest ?

Never mind the National Inquirer

What about the main stream media?

Pushing a false story as true......the dossier/Russian Collusion

Pushing a true story as false.......Hunter Biden laptop

All in an effort to try and influence the outcomes of two elections

An absolute fvckin disgrace

Speaking of f**king disgraces and lies...

The dossier stuff came out in January 2017, so it was hardly going to influence the election, was it?

And you continually push the Russia collusion as "false", as if there was zero reason to ask serious questions about this issue as the time, despite your knowing full well that there were multiple reasons to investigate it, starting with Manafort and Stone and going all the way through to Trump's continual attempts to obstruct the investigations and dangle pardons in front of would be witnesses.

And of course you ignore the context in which the Hunter Biden laptop story was treated with such well-justified skepticism at the time, with it being pushed by Giuliani, hardly a reliable witness and fresh from the attempts to blackmail Zelensky (resulting in the first impeachment) as well as the byline reporter at the Post publicly disavowing the laptop story.

Always the victims.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 04, 2022, 09:59:48 AM
Of course the two lads have zero to say about Tucker Carlson editing out Kanye's most unhinged antisemitism from their recent two hour "interview", instead opting to push and promote him across the network as another noble put upon "victim" of the culture.

Or Fox's basic ignoring of the "dinner".

Or the election shenanigans in Arizona.

As always, this thread is only resurrected when the two lads get the hump over some liberal or Democratic "outrage".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 04, 2022, 11:14:45 AM
I'm up early (and bored), so I was looking back over our discussions at the time over the Twitter and the laptop stuff (around October 20 2020).

Even Fox News wouldn't run the story. Only the NY Post took the plunge.

And Giuliani said at the time that he felt there was only a 50/50 chance he was being played.

But sure it's all victimization of the poor right wingers lads.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/exclusive-fox-news-passed-on-hunter-biden-laptop-story-over-credibility-concerns/ (https://www.mediaite.com/tv/exclusive-fox-news-passed-on-hunter-biden-laptop-story-over-credibility-concerns/)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 04, 2022, 11:35:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 04, 2022, 11:14:45 AM
I'm up early (and bored), so I was looking back over our discussions at the time over the Twitter and the laptop stuff (around October 20 2020).

Even Fox News wouldn't run the story. Only the NY Post took the plunge.

And Giuliani said at the time that he felt there was only a 50/50 chance he was being played.

But sure it's all victimization of the poor right wingers lads.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/exclusive-fox-news-passed-on-hunter-biden-laptop-story-over-credibility-concerns/ (https://www.mediaite.com/tv/exclusive-fox-news-passed-on-hunter-biden-laptop-story-over-credibility-concerns/)



If Fox "passed" on it why did The NY Times write this article?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/technology/fox-news-hunter-biden.html

"Fox News Is Covering Hunter Biden Claims More Than 2016 WikiLeaks Emails"

And then there's this

https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-has-covered-unverified-hunter-biden-email-story-more-36-hours-lead-election-day

"Fox has covered the unverified Hunter Biden email story for more than 36 hours in the lead-up to Election Day
The network has devoted nearly 600 segments to discussing the poorly sourced allegations"



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 04, 2022, 11:48:03 AM
I guess once the NY Post put it all out there, Fox's on-air talent felt they could run with it. The fact remains that their actual news operation (as opposed to their now blanket on-air opinion operation) refused the option to break the story because of how questionable it was.

That's the issue here after all.

No one ever accused Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity or Fox and Friends of being news reporters.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 04, 2022, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 04, 2022, 11:48:03 AM
I guess once the NY Post put it all out there, Fox's on-air talent felt they could run with it. The fact remains that their actual news operation (as opposed to their now blanket on-air opinion operation) refused the option to break the story because of how questionable it was.

That's the issue here after all.

No one ever accused Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity or Fox and Friends of being news reporters.

So Fox News did cover it-EXTENSIVELY

Actually iirc it's about all they bloody well talked about for weeks on end

But nice attempt at deflection and deception nonetheless

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 04, 2022, 12:23:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 04, 2022, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 04, 2022, 11:48:03 AM
I guess once the NY Post put it all out there, Fox's on-air talent felt they could run with it. The fact remains that their actual news operation (as opposed to their now blanket on-air opinion operation) refused the option to break the story because of how questionable it was.

That's the issue here after all.

No one ever accused Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity or Fox and Friends of being news reporters.

So Fox News did cover it-EXTENSIVELY

Actually iirc it's about all they bloody well talked about for weeks on end

But nice attempt at deflection and deception nonetheless

Right, I only posted a link to an article describing how Fox News passed on breaking it. Even has a very descriptive url. ::)

I'll grant you that I should probably have said "broke" instead of "run" but in my early morning stupor I figured anyone interested would open the link.

The overall point stands.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 04, 2022, 12:34:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 04, 2022, 12:23:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 04, 2022, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 04, 2022, 11:48:03 AM
I guess once the NY Post put it all out there, Fox's on-air talent felt they could run with it. The fact remains that their actual news operation (as opposed to their now blanket on-air opinion operation) refused the option to break the story because of how questionable it was.

That's the issue here after all.

No one ever accused Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity or Fox and Friends of being news reporters.

So Fox News did cover it-EXTENSIVELY

Actually iirc it's about all they bloody well talked about for weeks on end

But nice attempt at deflection and deception nonetheless

Right, I only posted a link to an article describing how Fox News passed on breaking it. Even has a very descriptive url. ::)

I'll grant you that I should probably have said "broke" instead of "run" but in my early morning stupor I figured anyone interested would open the link.

The overall point stands.

It was a very poorly written article

When I saw it, I thought......what the hell are they talking about

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 04, 2022, 12:46:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 04, 2022, 12:34:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 04, 2022, 12:23:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 04, 2022, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 04, 2022, 11:48:03 AM
I guess once the NY Post put it all out there, Fox's on-air talent felt they could run with it. The fact remains that their actual news operation (as opposed to their now blanket on-air opinion operation) refused the option to break the story because of how questionable it was.

That's the issue here after all.

No one ever accused Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity or Fox and Friends of being news reporters.

So Fox News did cover it-EXTENSIVELY

Actually iirc it's about all they bloody well talked about for weeks on end

But nice attempt at deflection and deception nonetheless

Right, I only posted a link to an article describing how Fox News passed on breaking it. Even has a very descriptive url. ::)

I'll grant you that I should probably have said "broke" instead of "run" but in my early morning stupor I figured anyone interested would open the link.

The overall point stands.

It was a very poorly written article

When I saw it, I thought......what the hell are they talking about

I guess people can judge for themselves, but I'm not sure why you'd be confused.

Main points:

Fox News news operation wouldn't break the story because of their misgivings.

NY Post had trouble getting anyone to put their name on the byline (and one whose name ended up on it subsequently disowned it).

Which all goes to the doubts about Giuliani and the story's authenticity and the reason an outfit like Twitter, at a time when concerns about misinformation were extremely prevalent, would internally debate about and end up deciding to suppress it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 04, 2022, 02:15:36 PM
Here's what you said "Even Fox News wouldn't run the story."

That's flat out false

There was wall to wall coverage on Fox News about it. (Slight exaggeration on my part for the sake of effect )

https://medium.com/dfrlab/coverage-of-hunter-biden-story-illustrates-extremes-in-media-polarization-b784cdde5480

"By contrast, CNN and MNSBC dedicated very little airtime to the Hunter Biden emails following the October 14, 2020 release. Fox News, however, has run ongoing coverage of the documents and purported revelations. More striking still, Fox News appears to have devoted significantly more airtime to the first six days of the Post story than it did to the first six days of the Wikileaks disclosures. Just one day after the release of the Hunter Biden record, Fox News eclipsed its one-day coverage record for the Wikileaks scandal."



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 04, 2022, 05:52:38 PM
Time to look at the contents of the laptop and see where it leads .
John Brennan , panetta , clapper all bought and paid for by the DNC too , Russian disinformation lol
scumbags
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2022, 10:51:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 04, 2022, 02:15:36 PM
Here's what you said "Even Fox News wouldn't run the story."

That's flat out false

There was wall to wall coverage on Fox News about it. (Slight exaggeration on my part for the sake of effect )

https://medium.com/dfrlab/coverage-of-hunter-biden-story-illustrates-extremes-in-media-polarization-b784cdde5480

"By contrast, CNN and MNSBC dedicated very little airtime to the Hunter Biden emails following the October 14, 2020 release. Fox News, however, has run ongoing coverage of the documents and purported revelations. More striking still, Fox News appears to have devoted significantly more airtime to the first six days of the Post story than it did to the first six days of the Wikileaks disclosures. Just one day after the release of the Hunter Biden record, Fox News eclipsed its one-day coverage record for the Wikileaks scandal."

WTF is wrong with you?

The link I posted illustrated what I was saying i.e. Fox wouldn't break the story. If I hadn't listed the link, you might have a point.

But sure go ahead and double down and "win" on an ambiguous choice of words if it makes you feel better about yourself.

It is rather noticeable that you haven't disputed the point though, that Twitter's hesitancy to allow the story to amplify through their platform was perfectly justifiable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2022, 10:54:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 04, 2022, 05:52:38 PM
Time to look at the contents of the laptop and see where it leads .
John Brennan , panetta , clapper all bought and paid for by the DNC too , Russian disinformation lol
scumbags

I'm sure it will lead to similar endpoints as all the other nonsense you hype up.

I remember you telling us to "grab the popcorn" when Trump was suing Hillary a while back.

Durham still working on stuff?

How's the paedophilia conspiracies going for you boys? Q?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2022, 11:35:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2022, 10:51:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 04, 2022, 02:15:36 PM
Here's what you said "Even Fox News wouldn't run the story."

That's flat out false

There was wall to wall coverage on Fox News about it. (Slight exaggeration on my part for the sake of effect )

https://medium.com/dfrlab/coverage-of-hunter-biden-story-illustrates-extremes-in-media-polarization-b784cdde5480

"By contrast, CNN and MNSBC dedicated very little airtime to the Hunter Biden emails following the October 14, 2020 release. Fox News, however, has run ongoing coverage of the documents and purported revelations. More striking still, Fox News appears to have devoted significantly more airtime to the first six days of the Post story than it did to the first six days of the Wikileaks disclosures. Just one day after the release of the Hunter Biden record, Fox News eclipsed its one-day coverage record for the Wikileaks scandal."

WTF is wrong with you?

The link I posted illustrated what I was saying i.e. Fox wouldn't break the story. If I hadn't listed the link, you might have a point.

But sure go ahead and double down and "win" on an ambiguous choice of words if it makes you feel better about yourself.

It is rather noticeable that you haven't disputed the point though, that Twitter's hesitancy to allow the story to amplify through their platform was perfectly justifiable.

Go back and read what you wrote

You were heavily implying that Fox didn't give ANY coverage to the story thereby excusing your buddies at CNN and MSNBC for doing the same

That's a flat out falsehood

There was wall to wall coverage on Fox in the lead up to the election

Maybe for the first couple of days they held back, but once it became clear the story was legit.......they went hell for leather

Meanwhile your pals either didn't cover it or dismissed it as Russian misinformation

You simply got conned by a badly written article.....it happens the best of us
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2022, 12:43:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2022, 11:35:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2022, 10:51:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 04, 2022, 02:15:36 PM
Here's what you said "Even Fox News wouldn't run the story."

That's flat out false

There was wall to wall coverage on Fox News about it. (Slight exaggeration on my part for the sake of effect )

https://medium.com/dfrlab/coverage-of-hunter-biden-story-illustrates-extremes-in-media-polarization-b784cdde5480

"By contrast, CNN and MNSBC dedicated very little airtime to the Hunter Biden emails following the October 14, 2020 release. Fox News, however, has run ongoing coverage of the documents and purported revelations. More striking still, Fox News appears to have devoted significantly more airtime to the first six days of the Post story than it did to the first six days of the Wikileaks disclosures. Just one day after the release of the Hunter Biden record, Fox News eclipsed its one-day coverage record for the Wikileaks scandal."

WTF is wrong with you?

The link I posted illustrated what I was saying i.e. Fox wouldn't break the story. If I hadn't listed the link, you might have a point.

But sure go ahead and double down and "win" on an ambiguous choice of words if it makes you feel better about yourself.

It is rather noticeable that you haven't disputed the point though, that Twitter's hesitancy to allow the story to amplify through their platform was perfectly justifiable.

Go back and read what you wrote

You were heavily implying that Fox didn't give ANY coverage to the story thereby excusing your buddies at CNN and MSNBC for doing the same

That's a flat out falsehood

There was wall to wall coverage on Fox in the lead up to the election

Maybe for the first couple of days they held back, but once it became clear the story was legit.......they went hell for leather

Meanwhile your pals either didn't cover it or dismissed it as Russian misinformation

You simply got conned by a badly written article.....it happens the best of us

Let's take it step by step for those with intellectual issues:

1.   The topic of discussion is the publicity and favour Musk is trying to curry with the right wing over the supposed controversy when in October 2020 Twitter decided that the Hunter Biden laptop story had far too many holes and questions to just allow it to be amplified across their platform. Yourself and Gmac, predictably, resurrected this thread to wallow in the "victimization" of and "bias against" the US right wing.

2.   Someone had posted the link in question on this thread back in October 2020 which showed that Fox News, at the time, passed on breaking the story Giuliani was shopping around because THEY TOO had serious reservations about its authenticity. As with their election operation back then (before they purged certain, responsible professionals), their news operation had significantly different standards to uphold when compared to the likes of Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity.

3.   I was curious about what WE on this thread were discussing at the time, as the whole issue is what the perception of the story was THEN, not NOW. So I found that someone had posted the link in question and felt it was rather pertinent as if even the news desk at Fox News wouldn't break it, then why the f**k are Twitter suddenly being hammered on the right for trying to avoid being the vehicle for the spread of utter nonsense?

4.   Instead of addressing the actual point i.e. the questions over the authenticity of the story being completely legitimate at the time, you're trying to change the subject. I didn't imply Fox didn't cover it, I said they wouldn't "run it" and posted a link which clearly illustrates what I was talking about i.e. breaking the story and the questions they had about whether it was legit i.e. the very topic we were supposedly discussing.
And BTW, you're going on about the article being badly written and conning me and so on, yet haven't actually given a single example of why you think that is the case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 05, 2022, 01:13:06 PM
I won't even bother reading that

The bottom line is you implied Fox didn't cover the story

That's flat out false

In fact Fox were criticized by the other media outlets for the amount of coverage they gave to it

But-as always you're free to believe what you want
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 05, 2022, 02:20:19 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/Hhk6RA_cuqkAAAAC/laughing-joe-biden.gif)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2022, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 05, 2022, 01:13:06 PM
I won't even bother reading that

The bottom line is you implied Fox didn't cover the story

That's flat out false

In fact Fox were criticized by the other media outlets for the amount of coverage they gave to it

But-as always you're free to believe what you want

Pathetic ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 05, 2022, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2022, 10:54:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 04, 2022, 05:52:38 PM
Time to look at the contents of the laptop and see where it leads .
John Brennan , panetta , clapper all bought and paid for by the DNC too , Russian disinformation lol
scumbags

I'm sure it will lead to similar endpoints as all the other nonsense you hype up.

I remember you telling us to "grab the popcorn" when Trump was suing Hillary a while back.

Durham still working on stuff?

How's the paedophilia conspiracies going for you boys? Q?
more interested in trumps tax returns probably ? Pathetic
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2022, 04:09:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 05, 2022, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 05, 2022, 10:54:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 04, 2022, 05:52:38 PM
Time to look at the contents of the laptop and see where it leads .
John Brennan , panetta , clapper all bought and paid for by the DNC too , Russian disinformation lol
scumbags

I'm sure it will lead to similar endpoints as all the other nonsense you hype up.

I remember you telling us to "grab the popcorn" when Trump was suing Hillary a while back.

Durham still working on stuff?

How's the paedophilia conspiracies going for you boys? Q?
more interested in trumps tax returns probably ? Pathetic

I couldn't give two fucks about Trump's tax returns. Have I mentioned them or resurrected the thread to discuss them?

Whereas if it was Biden, you'd be on here hyping it up to high heaven.

There was been so much shit come out about Trump over the past few weeks alone that if I was in anyway equivalent to yourself I would have been on here nonstop, every day.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 04:22:14 PM
Former darling of the left and hyped up 2020 presidential candidate Michael avenatti who is already in jail sentenced to another 14 years in jail . Also record voting in Georgia for the second time in a month didn't a bunch of crybabies pull their businesses from there because of voter suppression, whatever the DNC are crying about probably the opposite is happening .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 06, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 04:22:14 PM
Former darling of the left and hyped up 2020 presidential candidate Michael avenatti who is already in jail sentenced to another 14 years in jail . Also record voting in Georgia for the second time in a month didn't a bunch of crybabies pull their businesses from there because of voter suppression, whatever the DNC are crying about probably the opposite is happening .

Poor Gmac.

Nothing to say about "terminating" the constitution or dinner with Nazis or whatever the hell else Trump came out with this week.

Don't worry- you're not alone on the right.

Hunter's dick pics are out there somewhere too, so it's not all doom and gloom.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 06, 2022, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 04:22:14 PM
Former darling of the left and hyped up 2020 presidential candidate Michael avenatti who is already in jail sentenced to another 14 years in jail . Also record voting in Georgia for the second time in a month didn't a bunch of crybabies pull their businesses from there because of voter suppression, whatever the DNC are crying about probably the opposite is happening .


If the Republicans were engaged in voter suppression they're not very good or effective at it if the turnout is anything to go by
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 05:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 04:22:14 PM
Former darling of the left and hyped up 2020 presidential candidate Michael avenatti who is already in jail sentenced to another 14 years in jail . Also record voting in Georgia for the second time in a month didn't a bunch of crybabies pull their businesses from there because of voter suppression, whatever the DNC are crying about probably the opposite is happening .

Poor Gmac.

Nothing to say about "terminating" the constitution or dinner with Nazis or whatever the hell else Trump came out with this week.

Don't worry- you're not alone on the right.

Hunter's dick pics are out there somewhere too, so it's not all doom and gloom.
I moved on from Trump around November 8 2020 I advise you do the same , I'm more interested in the Biden crime family and 10% for the big guy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 06, 2022, 06:07:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 05:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 04:22:14 PM
Former darling of the left and hyped up 2020 presidential candidate Michael avenatti who is already in jail sentenced to another 14 years in jail . Also record voting in Georgia for the second time in a month didn't a bunch of crybabies pull their businesses from there because of voter suppression, whatever the DNC are crying about probably the opposite is happening .

Poor Gmac.

Nothing to say about "terminating" the constitution or dinner with Nazis or whatever the hell else Trump came out with this week.

Don't worry- you're not alone on the right.

Hunter's dick pics are out there somewhere too, so it's not all doom and gloom.
I moved on from Trump around November 8 2020 I advise you do the same , I'm more interested in the Biden crime family and 10% for the big guy

"The Biden Crime Family"  ;D ;D ;D

Do right wingers ever have an original thought?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 06:31:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2022, 06:07:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 05:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 04:22:14 PM
Former darling of the left and hyped up 2020 presidential candidate Michael avenatti who is already in jail sentenced to another 14 years in jail . Also record voting in Georgia for the second time in a month didn't a bunch of crybabies pull their businesses from there because of voter suppression, whatever the DNC are crying about probably the opposite is happening .

Poor Gmac.

Nothing to say about "terminating" the constitution or dinner with Nazis or whatever the hell else Trump came out with this week.

Don't worry- you're not alone on the right.

Hunter's dick pics are out there somewhere too, so it's not all doom and gloom.
I moved on from Trump around November 8 2020 I advise you do the same , I'm more interested in the Biden crime family and 10% for the big guy

"The Biden Crime Family"  ;D ;D ;D

Do right wingers ever have an original thought?
syndicate ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 06, 2022, 06:51:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 06:31:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2022, 06:07:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 05:52:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 06, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2022, 04:22:14 PM
Former darling of the left and hyped up 2020 presidential candidate Michael avenatti who is already in jail sentenced to another 14 years in jail . Also record voting in Georgia for the second time in a month didn't a bunch of crybabies pull their businesses from there because of voter suppression, whatever the DNC are crying about probably the opposite is happening .

Poor Gmac.

Nothing to say about "terminating" the constitution or dinner with Nazis or whatever the hell else Trump came out with this week.

Don't worry- you're not alone on the right.

Hunter's dick pics are out there somewhere too, so it's not all doom and gloom.
I moved on from Trump around November 8 2020 I advise you do the same , I'm more interested in the Biden crime family and 10% for the big guy

"The Biden Crime Family"  ;D ;D ;D

Do right wingers ever have an original thought?
syndicate ?

Give credit where its due, that was actually funny. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2022, 06:59:05 PM
Happy Holidays, everyone!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2022, 10:35:16 PM
Trump Organization found guilty on all counts of criminal tax fraud

A Manhattan jury has found two Trump Organization companies guilty on multiple charges of criminal tax fraud and falsifying business records connected to a 15-year scheme to defraud tax authorities by failing to report and pay taxes on compensation for top executives.

The Trump Corp. and Trump Payroll Corp. were found guilty on all charges they faced.

Donald Trump and his family were not charged in this case, but the former president was mentioned repeatedly during the trial by prosecutors about his connection to the benefits doled out to certain executives, including company-funded apartments, car leases and personal expenses.

The Trump Organization could face a maximum of $1.61 million in fines when sentenced in mid-January. The company is not at risk of being dismantled because there is no mechanism under New York law that would dissolve the company. However, a felony conviction could impact its ability to do business or obtain loans or contracts.

The guilty verdict comes as Trump is under scrutiny by federal and state prosecutors for his handling of classified documents, the effort to overturn the 2020 election results, and the accuracy of the Trump Organization's business records and financial statements. He is also facing a $250 million civil lawsuit from the New York attorney general alleging he and his adult children were involved in a decade long fraud. The attorney general is seeking to permanently bar them from serving as an officer or director of a company in New York state, among other penalties.

Full story (https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/06/politics/trump-organization-fraud-trial-verdict/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2zEBKhmlOO4wa_rSxhHAWOuyX53t9HuABaiHz7EnX0uPu9pHnLucDU-u0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 06, 2022, 10:47:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2022, 10:35:16 PM
The Trump Organization could face a maximum of $1.61 million in fines when sentenced in mid-January.

That is a bizarrely small fine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 07, 2022, 01:19:04 AM
Quote from: dec on December 06, 2022, 10:47:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2022, 10:35:16 PM
The Trump Organization could face a maximum of $1.61 million in fines when sentenced in mid-January.

That is a bizarrely small fine.

Was this a civil case?

Maybe there are smaller fines for a civil case

IRS could maybe come in and wallop him with additional fines and penalties

(For some firms, fines and enforcement actions are just part of the cost of doing business)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2022, 01:30:14 AM
The article says "criminal tax fraud". It also says the 1.6m is a maximum fine. I guess that must be in the relevant laws. It would be crippling for a small business.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2022, 02:45:52 AM
Very tight in GA with 85% of the vote in, but a lot of Atlanta area vote still to come.

NY Times has Warnock strong favourite at this point, but it depends on turnout in Atlanta.

Would be nice if the Dems have that Senate seat for the next six years with a tough map in '24.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 07, 2022, 03:32:46 AM
Fox and MSNBC both calling it for Warnock
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 07, 2022, 10:20:39 AM
That's 4 Senate seats Trump has (potentially) cost them this cycle

PA, AZ, NH and GA were all very winnable for Republicans
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2022, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 07, 2022, 10:20:39 AM
That's 4 Senate seats Trump has (potentially) cost them this cycle

PA, AZ, NH and GA were all very winnable for Republicans

Throw in Ossoff's seat from 2020 too.

And what could have been competitive governors races in PA, WI and AZ.

So much winning!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
I have to say though, appalling candidate though he was, Walker bowed out with a decent and gracious speech.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on December 07, 2022, 01:08:09 PM
The Germans know how to deal with their Trumpites.
25 villages will be missing their eejit tonight

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1207/1340439-germany-arrests/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 07, 2022, 01:11:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2022, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 07, 2022, 10:20:39 AM
That's 4 Senate seats Trump has (potentially) cost them this cycle

PA, AZ, NH and GA were all very winnable for Republicans

Throw in Ossoff's seat from 2020 too.

And what could have been competitive governors races in PA, WI and AZ.

So much winning!

And by having weak candidates at the top of the ticket, it also cost them congressional seats in those states
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2022, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 07, 2022, 01:08:09 PM
The Germans know how to deal with their Trumpites.
25 villages will be missing their eejit tonight

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1207/1340439-germany-arrests/

Good for them.

I wonder did they use undercover police in their investigations?

Some around here seem to consider that illegitimate. At least when it comes to butter-wouldn't-melt-in-their-mouth US far right militia types.;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 07, 2022, 02:58:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2022, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 07, 2022, 01:08:09 PM
The Germans know how to deal with their Trumpites.
25 villages will be missing their eejit tonight

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1207/1340439-germany-arrests/

Good for them.

I wonder did they use undercover police in their investigations?

Some around here seem to consider that illegitimate. At least when it comes to butter-wouldn't-melt-in-their-mouth US far right militia types.;)
is there no EU political thread ?
If you want to find real nazis germany and Ukraine probably the place to look
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on December 07, 2022, 03:14:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2022, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 07, 2022, 01:08:09 PM
The Germans know how to deal with their Trumpites.
25 villages will be missing their eejit tonight

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1207/1340439-germany-arrests/

Good for them.

I wonder did they use undercover police in their investigations?

Some around here seem to consider that illegitimate. At least when it comes to butter-wouldn't-melt-in-their-mouth US far right militia types.;)
These bucks seem to be totally off the planet (but would be considered normal enough by a lot of Yanks)
https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2022/1207/1340507-germany-reichsbuerger/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 07, 2022, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2022, 06:59:05 PM
Happy Holidays, everyone!

Merry Christmas
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 07, 2022, 05:42:41 PM
Biden is the first president since FDR to not lose a single senator.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 07, 2022, 06:24:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 07, 2022, 05:42:41 PM
Biden is the first president since FDR to not lose a single senator.

Republican primary voters deserve some of the credit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on December 07, 2022, 06:38:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2022, 06:59:05 PM
Happy Holidays, everyone!

Premature ejaculation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 07, 2022, 07:34:18 PM
Quote from: dec on December 07, 2022, 06:24:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 07, 2022, 05:42:41 PM
Biden is the first president since FDR to not lose a single senator.

Republican primary voters deserve some of the credit.

Just like the Tea Party......put forward a bunch of clowns that were unelectable in a General Election

They deserve everything that coming their way
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2022, 08:23:33 AM
With 51 Senate seats and the VP's casting vote, Manchin and Sinema can be bypassed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 08, 2022, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2022, 08:23:33 AM
With 51 Senate seats and the VP's casting vote, Manchin and Sinema can be bypassed.

Only thing it will matter for is judges really. I highly doubt if the House, who will be focused on Hunter Biden's laptop and the like, will pass anything up that the Dems would be interested in putting through, but we'll see.

Both of them are up for reelection next time out. Manchin, in particular, if he's running again, will need to be able to opt out on certain things. The extra vote gives the Dems the room to accommodate him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2022, 01:38:59 PM
US politics are polarised again. The rich don't want any change. This will prevail until the pitchforks. A lot of pro plutocrat policies such as healthcare, Israel, trans and prisons will suddenly be abandoned. Last time the power was with Tammany Hall and the Klan, running culture wars. They never rose again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaHflVDIzZo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2022, 02:59:55 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/12/07/u-s-consumers-plan-to-spend-less-on-holiday-shopping-cnbc-survey-finds.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 08, 2022, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2022, 02:59:55 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/12/07/u-s-consumers-plan-to-spend-less-on-holiday-shopping-cnbc-survey-finds.html

You forgot to include a trigger warning for the conservative snowflakes. It says "holiday" in there!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 08, 2022, 07:45:20 PM
Great prisoner swap by joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 08, 2022, 08:10:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 08, 2022, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2022, 02:59:55 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/12/07/u-s-consumers-plan-to-spend-less-on-holiday-shopping-cnbc-survey-finds.html

You forgot to include a trigger warning for the conservative snowflakes. It says "holiday" in there!

Don't be that person. You've tried twice and nobody has bothered to bite. Go do something constructive instead of this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on December 08, 2022, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2022, 07:45:20 PM
Great prisoner swap by joe
A gun runner for someone with a small bottle of cannabis oil. The world is a safer place.
Yet the retired Marine who fought for his country is left behind, who has the 'no man left behind' slogan? His crime in the US eyes is he's a middle aged white guy, I'm sure Joe and his crew were worried about the cities burning if the marine came home and the basketball player was left behind.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 08, 2022, 10:40:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 08, 2022, 08:10:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 08, 2022, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2022, 02:59:55 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/12/07/u-s-consumers-plan-to-spend-less-on-holiday-shopping-cnbc-survey-finds.html

You forgot to include a trigger warning for the conservative snowflakes. It says "holiday" in there!

Don't be that person. You've tried twice and nobody has bothered to bite. Go do something constructive instead of this.

https://www.wcvb.com/amp/article/controversy-in-dedham-after-library-leaves-christmas-trees-out-of-holiday-decorations/42191855


It's started.....people "uncomfortable" about putting up a "holiday" tree in Dedham library
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 08, 2022, 10:41:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 08, 2022, 08:10:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 08, 2022, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2022, 02:59:55 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/12/07/u-s-consumers-plan-to-spend-less-on-holiday-shopping-cnbc-survey-finds.html

You forgot to include a trigger warning for the conservative snowflakes. It says "holiday" in there!

Don't be that person. You've tried twice and nobody has bothered to bite. Go do something constructive instead of this.

Apart from yourself.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 08, 2022, 11:31:13 PM
The retired Marine was actually kicked out of the Marines on a bad conduct discharge. He tried to steal $10,000, used someone else's social security number and wrote bad checks.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/02/us/paul-whelan-detained-russia-what-we-know/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 09, 2022, 12:05:15 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different.

The Russians knew exactly what they were doing

Joe could make a deal to free the "American hating, lesbian pothead", but he left the Marine in jail. (Sarcasm)

https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/basketball/news-why-brittney-griner-hates-america-trending-all-need-know
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 09, 2022, 12:45:06 AM
Friendly reminder that Trump freed 5,000 Taliban prisoners and invited their leader to Camp David.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 09, 2022, 01:28:02 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different.
maybe she will appreciate her country now and learn a valuable lesson .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 09, 2022, 01:41:48 AM
Anyone who takes that as the moral of this must really be an awful p***k.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 09, 2022, 02:34:09 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 09, 2022, 01:41:48 AM
Anyone who takes that as the moral of this must really be an awful p***k.
interesting reaction, I personally wouldn't swap a set of Russian dolls for her .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 04:28:34 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different.

Would you not want to sit down at the poker table with whoever negotiated this deal? A criminal all over the world for a pot head!

I voted for Obama 1.0, a man that did absolutely nothing for black people, so yeah, you're right I must be right wing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on December 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
Why the hate for the Griner from those here that live in the US?
Is there more to her story than meets the eye?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 09, 2022, 09:16:01 AM
Always nice to dive into this thread every so often to feel the love among the expats

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2022, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 08, 2022, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2022, 07:45:20 PM
Great prisoner swap by joe
A gun runner for someone with a small bottle of cannabis oil. The world is a safer place.
Yet the retired Marine who fought for his country is left behind, who has the 'no man left behind' slogan? His crime in the US eyes is he's a middle aged white guy, I'm sure Joe and his crew were worried about the cities burning if the marine came home and the basketball player was left behind.

That's your take home message from this? Cities burning? Another left behind because he is part of the poor put-upon victimized white male demographic?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2022, 09:59:28 AM
Quote from: Taylor on December 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
Why the hate for the Griner from those here that live in the US?
Is there more to her story than meets the eye?

She's a black lesbian who called for the national anthem not to be played before games.

So presumably not a favourite in the rabid right fever swamps certain individuals frequent.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2022, 10:01:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 09, 2022, 12:45:06 AM
Friendly reminder that Trump freed 5,000 Taliban prisoners and invited their leader to Camp David.

But that was THEIR guy.

I wonder did Gmac rush on here at the time to tell us all how badly Trump had been had or how unpatriotic he was?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 04:28:34 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different.

Would you not want to sit down at the poker table with whoever negotiated this deal? A criminal all over the world for a pot head!

I voted for Obama 1.0, a man that did absolutely nothing for black people, so yeah, you're right I must be right wing.

So she should have been left to rot in a Russian prison?

One wonders how the right wingers would be reacting if she had been some pretty, blond white tennis star or whatever?

They'd have been up in arms for months over the fact that the administration wasn't getting her home.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2022, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different.

They can't even comment on Trump dining with white supremacists and rabid anti-semites, never mind his call for the "termination " of the constitution as he continues his self-pitying election fraud fraud (to use just two of his most recent escapades), so it's pretty safe to say the boys would be happy out if it had been Trump, not Biden, who had to make a deal like this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2022, 11:26:29 AM
Good to see the same-sex marriage protection law getting through Congress, albeit with 80% of the GOP voting against it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 09, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on December 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
Why the hate for the Griner from those here that live in the US?
Is there more to her story than meets the eye?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/wnba/mercury/2022/08/10/brittney-griner-national-anthem-comments-mocked-russia-sentencing/10290620002/

Some people who live here think this America is the best country on the planet

Anyone who criticizes it or "disrespects" it, would get very little sympathy from a large swath of the population over here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 09, 2022, 11:41:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on December 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
Why the hate for the Griner from those here that live in the US?
Is there more to her story than meets the eye?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/wnba/mercury/2022/08/10/brittney-griner-national-anthem-comments-mocked-russia-sentencing/10290620002/

Some people who live here think this America is the best country on the planet

Anyone who criticizes it or "disrespects" it, would get very little sympathy from a large swath of the population over here

Is her family from Liverpool? Can I even say that now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on December 09, 2022, 11:50:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on December 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
Why the hate for the Griner from those here that live in the US?
Is there more to her story than meets the eye?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/wnba/mercury/2022/08/10/brittney-griner-national-anthem-comments-mocked-russia-sentencing/10290620002/

Some people who live here think this America is the best country on the planet

Anyone who criticizes it or "disrespects" it, would get very little sympathy from a large swath of the population over here

A lot of hate for stating an opinion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 09, 2022, 12:30:30 PM
Kyrsten Sinema leaving the Democratic party but will not be caucusing with the Republicans.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2022, 01:19:40 PM
Quote from: dec on December 09, 2022, 12:30:30 PM
Kyrsten Sinema leaving the Democratic party but will not be caucusing with the Republicans.

Doesn't really change anything, as the Dems will still have the majority in the committees and she wasn't exactly a reliable legislative vote anyway.

It does raise the question about her seat in 2024. I don't see a progressive type winning in AZ.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 09, 2022, 01:26:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2022, 01:19:40 PM
Quote from: dec on December 09, 2022, 12:30:30 PM
Kyrsten Sinema leaving the Democratic party but will not be caucusing with the Republicans.

Doesn't really change anything, as the Dems will still have the majority in the committees and she wasn't exactly a reliable legislative vote anyway.

It does raise the question about her seat in 2024. I don't see a progressive type winning in AZ.

I used to laugh at the progressives foaming at the mouth about her and Joe Manchin

Joe Manchin, a Democrat, was able to win in a state that Trump carried by about 40 points

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 09, 2022, 01:44:34 PM
Mark Kelly, a Democrat, has the other Arizona Senate seat. He is certainly not a Squad like liberal, but he is a reliable Democratic vote, unlike Sinema.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 09, 2022, 02:07:55 PM
Quote from: dec on December 09, 2022, 01:44:34 PM
Mark Kelly, a Democrat, has the other Arizona Senate seat. He is certainly not a Squad like liberal, but he is a reliable Democratic vote, unlike Sinema.

If the Republicans had run a half way decent candidate they had a real chance to take that seat, but instead they picked another unelectable clown
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 04:28:34 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different.

Would you not want to sit down at the poker table with whoever negotiated this deal? A criminal all over the world for a pot head!

I voted for Obama 1.0, a man that did absolutely nothing for black people, so yeah, you're right I must be right wing.

So she should have been left to rot in a Russian prison?

One wonders how the right wingers would be reacting if she had been some pretty, blond white tennis star or whatever?

They'd have been up in arms for months over the fact that the administration wasn't getting her home.

Do you believe this was a good deal? An arms dealer for a pot user?
The rest of them are left to rot in jail as you put it. If you don't believe there was any thoughts about checking multiple boxes in choosing to bring home, Sports star, Black, LGBT, then you are very naive. Great, an American is home but the price tag on every American traveling just went way up.

Instead anyone who questions it is right wing, racist, queer hating
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 09, 2022, 03:30:36 PM
I was just listening to Smerconish and he shared an interesting anecdote

He claimed that John Bolton (ie Trump) turned down a Bout for Whelan swap when he was in office
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 09, 2022, 04:02:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2022, 03:30:36 PM
I was just listening to Smerconish and he shared an interesting anecdote

He claimed that John Bolton (ie Trump) turned down a Bout for Whelan swap when he was in office

He's right. I don't think anyone should have be swapped for someone who's nickname is "Merchant of Death". In the discussion about who should have been sent from the Russian side not enough has been made of the fact Bout is now free.

But this swap plays well in key demographics for Democrats, which I suppose is why it was made. They are thinking of 2024.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 09, 2022, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
Why the hate for the Griner from those here that live in the US?
Is there more to her story than meets the eye?

she's a black woman - that's it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 09, 2022, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 09, 2022, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
Why the hate for the Griner from those here that live in the US?
Is there more to her story than meets the eye?

she's a black woman - that's it.

No that's no "it"

Shes someone who "disrespected the flag and the national anthem" and by default disrespected the country

Many on the right would say, well if you think it's so bad here why don't you move somewhere you think is better

They were actually rejoicing in her getting locked up and would  have had a similar viewpoint if she were white and did the same thing
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on December 09, 2022, 06:54:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2022, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 09, 2022, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
Why the hate for the Griner from those here that live in the US?
Is there more to her story than meets the eye?

she's a black woman - that's it.

No that's no "it"

Shes someone who "disrespected the flag and the national anthem" and by default disrespected the country

Many on the right would say, well if you think it's so bad here why don't you move somewhere you think is better

They were actually rejoicing in her getting locked up and would  have had a similar viewpoint if she were white and did the same thing

Right wingers condemn her for disrespecting the flag but have absolutely no problem with a far right extremist tying to overturn a fair and democratic election with an attempted coup. The hypocrisy is staggering.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2022, 08:19:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 09, 2022, 01:26:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2022, 01:19:40 PM
Quote from: dec on December 09, 2022, 12:30:30 PM
Kyrsten Sinema leaving the Democratic party but will not be caucusing with the Republicans.

Doesn't really change anything, as the Dems will still have the majority in the committees and she wasn't exactly a reliable legislative vote anyway.

It does raise the question about her seat in 2024. I don't see a progressive type winning in AZ.

I used to laugh at the progressives foaming at the mouth about her and Joe Manchin

Joe Manchin, a Democrat, was able to win in a state that Trump carried by about 40 points

I absolutely agree. It's insane.

The alternative to Joe Manchin is Senator Cletus von Suck Trump's dick and Mitch McConnell as Majority Leader. A place like WV is not sending a liberal to DC.

The people who chased Sinema into the bathroom harassing her are complete morons with no connection to reality.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2022, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 04:28:34 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different.

Would you not want to sit down at the poker table with whoever negotiated this deal? A criminal all over the world for a pot head!

I voted for Obama 1.0, a man that did absolutely nothing for black people, so yeah, you're right I must be right wing.

So she should have been left to rot in a Russian prison?

One wonders how the right wingers would be reacting if she had been some pretty, blond white tennis star or whatever?

They'd have been up in arms for months over the fact that the administration wasn't getting her home.

Do you believe this was a good deal? An arms dealer for a pot user?
The rest of them are left to rot in jail as you put it. If you don't believe there was any thoughts about checking multiple boxes in choosing to bring home, Sports star, Black, LGBT, then you are very naive. Great, an American is home but the price tag on every American traveling just went way up.

Instead anyone who questions it is right wing, racist, queer hating

How are you going to get a "good" deal in a situation like this?

They were negotiating for months to try to get both of them.

It was either let them both rot over there or take Griner for now.

I stand by my contention about if it had been a pretty white girl. You only have to look at the contrasting coverage given when some young one goes missing. Biden would have been hammered nightly on it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 09, 2022, 08:33:47 PM
Just to note, nobody disrespected the USA more than the former President, Donald Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 09, 2022, 08:44:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2022, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 04:28:34 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different.

Would you not want to sit down at the poker table with whoever negotiated this deal? A criminal all over the world for a pot head!

I voted for Obama 1.0, a man that did absolutely nothing for black people, so yeah, you're right I must be right wing.

So she should have been left to rot in a Russian prison?

One wonders how the right wingers would be reacting if she had been some pretty, blond white tennis star or whatever?

They'd have been up in arms for months over the fact that the administration wasn't getting her home.

Do you believe this was a good deal? An arms dealer for a pot user?
The rest of them are left to rot in jail as you put it. If you don't believe there was any thoughts about checking multiple boxes in choosing to bring home, Sports star, Black, LGBT, then you are very naive. Great, an American is home but the price tag on every American traveling just went way up.

Instead anyone who questions it is right wing, racist, queer hating

How are you going to get a "good" deal in a situation like this?

They were negotiating for months to try to get both of them.

It was either let them both rot over there or take Griner for now.

I stand by my contention about if it had been a pretty white girl. You only have to look at the contrasting coverage given when some young one goes missing. Biden would have been hammered nightly on it.
so  BLM are nowhere to be seen if a black girl goes missing your telling us ? Probably no chance to riot and loot or scam money off suckers in those circumstances.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on December 09, 2022, 11:02:49 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 08, 2022, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2022, 07:45:20 PM
Great prisoner swap by joe
A gun runner for someone with a small bottle of cannabis oil. The world is a safer place.
Yet the retired Marine who fought for his country is left behind, who has the 'no man left behind' slogan? His crime in the US eyes is he's a middle aged white guy, I'm sure Joe and his crew were worried about the cities burning if the marine came home and the basketball player was left behind.

Yeah, trump is trying to use that argument also but everyone can see through him bar right wing extremists. Even the marine's brother has tweeted to say that trump has mentioned the marine by name more often in the last 24 hours than his last 2 years in office when he actually had the opportunity to do something. Trump didn't care then and he doesn't care now, it's just a cheap shot to deflect from his persistent legal issues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: HiMucker on December 10, 2022, 12:31:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 09, 2022, 09:16:01 AM
Always nice to dive into this thread every so often to feel the love among the expats
+1
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2022, 02:04:41 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2022, 08:44:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2022, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 09, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 09, 2022, 04:28:34 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
Not to mention, they're still trying to free him.

Some serious miserable bastards on this thread.  A young woman who did nothing wrong was held as a captive for almost a year in a Russian prison, will now be coming home. 

But for some people, that's apparently bad news and reflects poorly on Biden.

The price was high, but if that's the best deal available, then so be it.

I'm guessing had Trump done this the reaction from our right-wing posters would be different.

Would you not want to sit down at the poker table with whoever negotiated this deal? A criminal all over the world for a pot head!

I voted for Obama 1.0, a man that did absolutely nothing for black people, so yeah, you're right I must be right wing.

So she should have been left to rot in a Russian prison?

One wonders how the right wingers would be reacting if she had been some pretty, blond white tennis star or whatever?

They'd have been up in arms for months over the fact that the administration wasn't getting her home.

Do you believe this was a good deal? An arms dealer for a pot user?
The rest of them are left to rot in jail as you put it. If you don't believe there was any thoughts about checking multiple boxes in choosing to bring home, Sports star, Black, LGBT, then you are very naive. Great, an American is home but the price tag on every American traveling just went way up.

Instead anyone who questions it is right wing, racist, queer hating

How are you going to get a "good" deal in a situation like this?

They were negotiating for months to try to get both of them.

It was either let them both rot over there or take Griner for now.

I stand by my contention about if it had been a pretty white girl. You only have to look at the contrasting coverage given when some young one goes missing. Biden would have been hammered nightly on it.
so  BLM are nowhere to be seen if a black girl goes missing your telling us ? Probably no chance to riot and loot or scam money off suckers in those circumstances.

Right, because you've been so vociferous over the corrupt scams the likes of Trump, Steve Bannon and the rest have been running with their bullshit fundraising, Mr "Jan 6 was just a walkthrough".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2022, 02:07:30 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2022, 11:02:49 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 08, 2022, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2022, 07:45:20 PM
Great prisoner swap by joe
A gun runner for someone with a small bottle of cannabis oil. The world is a safer place.
Yet the retired Marine who fought for his country is left behind, who has the 'no man left behind' slogan? His crime in the US eyes is he's a middle aged white guy, I'm sure Joe and his crew were worried about the cities burning if the marine came home and the basketball player was left behind.

Yeah, trump is trying to use that argument also but everyone can see through him bar right wing extremists. Even the marine's brother has tweeted to say that trump has mentioned the marine by name more often in the last 24 hours than his last 2 years in office when he actually had the opportunity to do something. Trump didn't care then and he doesn't care now, it's just a cheap shot to deflect from his persistent legal issues.

And Gmac doesn't give a f**k about the marine either.

Just like the right wing hypocrites he gets his opinions from.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 10, 2022, 04:01:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2022, 02:07:30 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2022, 11:02:49 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 08, 2022, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2022, 07:45:20 PM
Great prisoner swap by joe
A gun runner for someone with a small bottle of cannabis oil. The world is a safer place.
Yet the retired Marine who fought for his country is left behind, who has the 'no man left behind' slogan? His crime in the US eyes is he's a middle aged white guy, I'm sure Joe and his crew were worried about the cities burning if the marine came home and the basketball player was left behind.

Yeah, trump is trying to use that argument also but everyone can see through him bar right wing extremists. Even the marine's brother has tweeted to say that trump has mentioned the marine by name more often in the last 24 hours than his last 2 years in office when he actually had the opportunity to do something. Trump didn't care then and he doesn't care now, it's just a cheap shot to deflect from his persistent legal issues.

And Gmac doesn't give a f**k about the marine either.

Just like the right wing hypocrites he gets his opinions from.
according to msnbc poor Britney's troubles are only beginning now as a black woman back living in America, they think she would be better off in the gulag .
in other news a lot of former twitter execs lied under oath to congress , time to file some charges .
Elon cleaning up the swamp
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2022, 10:57:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2022, 04:01:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2022, 02:07:30 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2022, 11:02:49 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 08, 2022, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2022, 07:45:20 PM
Great prisoner swap by joe
A gun runner for someone with a small bottle of cannabis oil. The world is a safer place.
Yet the retired Marine who fought for his country is left behind, who has the 'no man left behind' slogan? His crime in the US eyes is he's a middle aged white guy, I'm sure Joe and his crew were worried about the cities burning if the marine came home and the basketball player was left behind.

Yeah, trump is trying to use that argument also but everyone can see through him bar right wing extremists. Even the marine's brother has tweeted to say that trump has mentioned the marine by name more often in the last 24 hours than his last 2 years in office when he actually had the opportunity to do something. Trump didn't care then and he doesn't care now, it's just a cheap shot to deflect from his persistent legal issues.

And Gmac doesn't give a f**k about the marine either.

Just like the right wing hypocrites he gets his opinions from.
according to msnbc poor Britney's troubles are only beginning now as a black woman back living in America, they think she would be better off in the gulag .
in other news a lot of former twitter execs lied under oath to congress , time to file some charges .
Elon cleaning up the swamp

I guess they should have pled the fifth or even ignored the subpoenas and refused to show up like your political heroes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2022, 01:55:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2022, 10:57:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2022, 04:01:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2022, 02:07:30 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2022, 11:02:49 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 08, 2022, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2022, 07:45:20 PM
Great prisoner swap by joe
A gun runner for someone with a small bottle of cannabis oil. The world is a safer place.
Yet the retired Marine who fought for his country is left behind, who has the 'no man left behind' slogan? His crime in the US eyes is he's a middle aged white guy, I'm sure Joe and his crew were worried about the cities burning if the marine came home and the basketball player was left behind.

Yeah, trump is trying to use that argument also but everyone can see through him bar right wing extremists. Even the marine's brother has tweeted to say that trump has mentioned the marine by name more often in the last 24 hours than his last 2 years in office when he actually had the opportunity to do something. Trump didn't care then and he doesn't care now, it's just a cheap shot to deflect from his persistent legal issues.

And Gmac doesn't give a f**k about the marine either.

Just like the right wing hypocrites he gets his opinions from.
according to msnbc poor Britney's troubles are only beginning now as a black woman back living in America, they think she would be better off in the gulag .
in other news a lot of former twitter execs lied under oath to congress , time to file some charges .
Elon cleaning up the swamp

I guess they should have pled the fifth or even ignored the subpoenas and refused to show up like your political heroes.

J70

That was flat out election interference
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2022, 02:03:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2022, 01:55:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2022, 10:57:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2022, 04:01:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2022, 02:07:30 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2022, 11:02:49 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on December 08, 2022, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 08, 2022, 07:45:20 PM
Great prisoner swap by joe
A gun runner for someone with a small bottle of cannabis oil. The world is a safer place.
Yet the retired Marine who fought for his country is left behind, who has the 'no man left behind' slogan? His crime in the US eyes is he's a middle aged white guy, I'm sure Joe and his crew were worried about the cities burning if the marine came home and the basketball player was left behind.

Yeah, trump is trying to use that argument also but everyone can see through him bar right wing extremists. Even the marine's brother has tweeted to say that trump has mentioned the marine by name more often in the last 24 hours than his last 2 years in office when he actually had the opportunity to do something. Trump didn't care then and he doesn't care now, it's just a cheap shot to deflect from his persistent legal issues.

And Gmac doesn't give a f**k about the marine either.

Just like the right wing hypocrites he gets his opinions from.
according to msnbc poor Britney's troubles are only beginning now as a black woman back living in America, they think she would be better off in the gulag .
in other news a lot of former twitter execs lied under oath to congress , time to file some charges .
Elon cleaning up the swamp

I guess they should have pled the fifth or even ignored the subpoenas and refused to show up like your political heroes.

J70

That was flat out election interference

If it was, it didn't work very well, did it?

The story was everywhere.

I guess if one wanted to see Hunter's dick pics and spread them on their Twitter account, then maybe they might have cause for complaint.

Doesn't change my point though. The likes of Gmac thinks its perfectly fine for Trump and the right to obstruct, plead the fifth and outright ignore subpoenas, but adopts a different attitude when it comes to others.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2022, 02:28:37 PM
Nothing to do with d-1-K pics but nice attempt at deflection

The son of a Presidential candidate getting Millions (if not Tens of Millions) of dollars in "consultancy fees" in industries he knows nothing about from countries that would be regarded as our adversaries........and you're okay with that?

Payments I may add that led among other things to 150+ Suspicious Activity reports being issued

https://www.newsweek.com/what-hunter-biden-accused-suspicious-activity-reports-explained-1760433?amp=1

But nothing to see here.....move along people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2022, 02:47:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2022, 02:28:37 PM
Nothing to do with d-1-K pics but nice attempt at deflection

The son of a Presidential candidate getting Millions (if not Tens of Millions) of dollars in "consultancy fees" in industries he knows nothing about from countries that would be regarded as our adversaries........and you're okay with that?

Payments I may add that led among other things to 150+ Suspicious Activity reports being issued

https://www.newsweek.com/what-hunter-biden-accused-suspicious-activity-reports-explained-1760433?amp=1

But nothing to see here.....move along people

You accuse me of deflection while in the very same post you attempt to change the subject and make a strawman argument?

We're not talking about Hunter Biden and his very American attempts to cash in on his political connections.

We're talking about whether Twitter was justified in hesitating (for one day) to allow the spread of a story the WSJ and even Fox News wouldn't break.

The dick pics are just another element of the supposed suppression the right wingers were whining about.

Gmac is upset because the Twitter execs supposedly lied to Congress about whether they censored this stuff. Yet he is perfectly fine with all the stuff the GOP does to obstruct and pervert justice.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2022, 03:07:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2022, 02:47:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2022, 02:28:37 PM
Nothing to do with d-1-K pics but nice attempt at deflection

The son of a Presidential candidate getting Millions (if not Tens of Millions) of dollars in "consultancy fees" in industries he knows nothing about from countries that would be regarded as our adversaries........and you're okay with that?

Payments I may add that led among other things to 150+ Suspicious Activity reports being issued

https://www.newsweek.com/what-hunter-biden-accused-suspicious-activity-reports-explained-1760433?amp=1

But nothing to see here.....move along people

You accuse me of deflection while in the very same post you attempt to change the subject and make a strawman argument?

We're not talking about Hunter Biden and his very American attempts to cash in on his political connections.

We're talking about whether Twitter was justified in hesitating (for one day) to allow the spread of a story the WSJ and even Fox News wouldn't break.

The dick pics are just another element of the supposed suppression the right wingers were whining about.

Gmac is upset because the Twitter execs supposedly lied to Congress about whether they censored this stuff. Yet he is perfectly fine with all the stuff the GOP does to obstruct and pervert justice.

I'm completely confused-are you saying that Twitter suppressed the story for one day and then let it rip

Are you saying that they muted conservatives for one day in the run up to the election, then unmuted them

Because I watched the Twitter execs testify under oath that conservatives were NOT suppressed

No we find out they were

And furthermore they were suppressed in the lead up to an election which by anyones definition should be seen as election interference

I'll let GMAC speak for himself

I'll ask you again-The son of a Presidential candidate getting Millions (if not Tens of Millions) of dollars in "consultancy fees" in industries he knows nothing about from countries that would be regarded as our adversaries........and you're okay with that?

And you're okay with Twitter suppressing the story and then lying to Congress about it?

Interesting
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2022, 03:52:39 PM
They delayed the Hunter laptop story for a day. That was the big outrage last week. I expect much of the latest allegations will turn out to be similar levels of hyperbole and overpromising as most of the other stuff that drives the GOP outrage machine, but we'll see what happens.

On perjury, I think anyone guilty of that should suffer the consequences if it can be proven, as long as the GOP are held to the exact same standard.

As a general principle, I have absolutely NO problem with a private platform suppressing potentially libelous, false, bigoted or conspiracy theory content. If anything, they were very late to the show on this matter. And I thought conservatives were supposed to be all about free markets. They're always boasting about their utter domination of talk radio, where they take advantage of free public airwaves to spread their lies and bullshit unchallenged.

We've been through the Hunter Biden stuff before. I don't give two fucks about him, any more than you give two fucks about Jared Kushner's dealings with the Saudis or his wife's sweetheart deal with the Chinese or the Trumps general fleecing of the taxpayer or any of the other umpteen examples of corrupt hacks taking advantage of their connections. That I don't give two fucks about him also means that I have no issues with him being investigated and, if necessary, going to jail.

But this is all purely political. They all peddle influence and do under the table deals that put their own interests ahead of the public's. If Joe Biden wasn't president, the GOP wouldn't give a shit about Hunter Biden. It's this decade's version of Benghazi.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2022, 04:10:13 PM
From my vantage point they suppressed a true story (Hunter Biden Laptop) and facilitated - false story (stories that claimed the laptop was Russian disinformation).

Both actions benefitted Democrats

I don't understand your claim that they "suppressed it for a day".....are you cherry picking one element of the story that was muted for a day?

What about the dozens of high profile conservatives who were promoting this story-were they just muted for a day?

Apples to bowling balls on the Hunter Biden/Kushner comparison

Hunter Biden would be passed out on the streets if it wasn't for his last name-he brought absolutely nothing to the table apart from influence peddling

The Kushners are an extremely wealthy and successful business family with decades long track record making money.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattdurot/2022/04/05/thrives-josh-kushner-the-other-brother-becomes-familys-first-billionaire/?sh=5fb0afcc8dbd

That being said, anyone who served in an administration should be prohibited from engaging in any business dealing like this for at least 10 years

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2022, 04:21:45 PM
They DID suppress it for a day before the reversed course.

Did the fact that the WSJ and Fox News refused to break the story due to their doubts or that Giuliani acknowledged that there was a 50/50 chance he was being played by the Russians or the NY Post byline writers disowning it not help the Democrats too?

Or the fact that this was all a continuation of Trump's attempted blackmailing of Zelensky?

None of this happened in a vacuum. The massive skepticism of the story was absolutely earned. That it ultimately turned out to NOT be a crock of shit THIS time was their misfortune.

As for Hunter Biden and Kushner, your point is irrelevant. Its still all connected people using their, in this case, international political connections to line their own pockets. Hunter could have been lying on the street, of course, but there is no way in hell Jared Kushner gets that astronomical contract with the Saudis for an initial start up in a business in which he had zero experience without the potential influence he was able to sell. Parse the different examples all you want - its all still corruption.

I agree on the moratorium, but we both know there is absolutely zero chance of that every happening.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 10, 2022, 04:31:20 PM
There's was way more censorship going on at twitter than just the laptop story and all favoring one side of the argument, wonder what's happening with google and other search engines. Facebook have already admitted they censor at the behest of the FBI . So much more to come out .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 10, 2022, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2022, 04:21:45 PM
They DID suppress it for a day before the reversed course.

Did the fact that the WSJ and Fox News refused to break the story due to their doubts or that Giuliani acknowledged that there was a 50/50 chance he was being played by the Russians or the NY Post byline writers disowning it not help the Democrats too?

Or the fact that this was all a continuation of Trump's attempted blackmailing of Zelensky?

None of this happened in a vacuum. The massive skepticism of the story was absolutely earned. That it ultimately turned out to NOT be a crock of shit THIS time was their misfortune.

As for Hunter Biden and Kushner, your point is irrelevant. Its still all connected people using their, in this case, international political connections to line their own pockets. Hunter could have been lying on the street, of course, but there is no way in hell Jared Kushner gets that astronomical contract with the Saudis for an initial start up in a business in which he had zero experience without the potential influence he was able to sell. Parse the different examples all you want - its all still corruption.

I agree on the moratorium, but we both know there is absolutely zero chance of that every happening.

Post me a link explaining explaining how they suppressed it for a day and then reversed course.

In addition to suppressing the "story" my understanding is that they suppressed conservatives who were promoting the story and that was for much longer than a day.

Fox News had wall to wall coverage about theHunter  Biden laptop for weeks.....so again you're pushing a completely false narrative to provide cover for the rest of the media who suppressed the story for political purposes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2022, 03:25:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 10, 2022, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2022, 04:21:45 PM
They DID suppress it for a day before the reversed course.

Did the fact that the WSJ and Fox News refused to break the story due to their doubts or that Giuliani acknowledged that there was a 50/50 chance he was being played by the Russians or the NY Post byline writers disowning it not help the Democrats too?

Or the fact that this was all a continuation of Trump's attempted blackmailing of Zelensky?

None of this happened in a vacuum. The massive skepticism of the story was absolutely earned. That it ultimately turned out to NOT be a crock of shit THIS time was their misfortune.

As for Hunter Biden and Kushner, your point is irrelevant. Its still all connected people using their, in this case, international political connections to line their own pockets. Hunter could have been lying on the street, of course, but there is no way in hell Jared Kushner gets that astronomical contract with the Saudis for an initial start up in a business in which he had zero experience without the potential influence he was able to sell. Parse the different examples all you want - its all still corruption.

I agree on the moratorium, but we both know there is absolutely zero chance of that every happening.

Post me a link explaining explaining how they suppressed it for a day and then reversed course.

In addition to suppressing the "story" my understanding is that they suppressed conservatives who were promoting the story and that was for much longer than a day.

Fox News had wall to wall coverage about theHunter  Biden laptop for weeks.....so again you're pushing a completely false narrative to provide cover for the rest of the media who suppressed the story for political purposes

Do your own research. I read in a number of places that Dorsey lifted the ban on the NY Post story after a day due to the backlash. If you REALLY are honestly interested and can't find it, I'll look later in the week when I have more time. I think Charlie Sykes commented several times on it in his pieces.

As for the bit in bold, I give up. You're plainly trolling or lying at this stage. I never denied Fox hyped it up. I said they refused to break it when Giuliani was shopping it around, as did the WSJ and the likes of the NY Times. Only the NY Post bit, and even then they had trouble finding someone on their staff willing to put their name on it, ending up with one of the selected byline writers disowning. And the point, ONCE AGAIN, of this now pointless exchange is that the story was SO QUESTIONABLE at the start, including when Twitter took their action, that even the WSJ and Fox News wouldn't break it.

But whatever, believe what you want.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 11, 2022, 04:04:44 PM
So you CANT prove your claim that it was SUPRESSED FOR A DAY.

Fair enough-we all make mistakes

I was in the road all of last week-I listened to Smerconish, Julie Mason, Dan Abrams and Laura Coates every single day. They're usually on the ball when it comes to giving both sides, and at least when I was listening not one of them mentioned it was suppressed for a day


https://nypost.com/2022/11/30/twitters-ex-safety-chief-admits-censoring-posts-hunter-biden-scoop-was-a-mistake/amp/


At the time, Twitter had also locked The Post out of its account for more than two weeks because of baseless claims that the expose on the trove of emails discovered on Hunter's laptop had used hacked information.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:45:24 AM
Here you go. Too much effort for you to do a quick Google search yourself I guess.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/16/twitter-backtracks-allows-sharing-of-new-york-post-biden-story.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/16/twitter-backtracks-allows-sharing-of-new-york-post-biden-story.html)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:52:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2022, 04:31:20 PM
There's was way more censorship going on at twitter than just the laptop story and all favoring one side of the argument, wonder what's happening with google and other search engines. Facebook have already admitted they censor at the behest of the FBI . So much more to come out .

Don't worry, Elon is out today announcing his pronouns are "Prosecute/Fauci."

Twitter should be even more of a cesspit now with all the racist, conspiracy minded bigots allowed to post and spread their filth unfettered.

Such a pithy quote too.

Gets a shot in at LGBTQ people and appeals to the Covid conspiracy theorists all in the space of a few words.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 03:23:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:45:24 AM
Here you go. Too much effort for you to do a quick Google search yourself I guess.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/16/twitter-backtracks-allows-sharing-of-new-york-post-biden-story.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/16/twitter-backtracks-allows-sharing-of-new-york-post-biden-story.html)

Lol-that was only ONE of the things they did to suppress the story, so you are correct after a couple of days they reversed that one element of their suppression

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 03:23:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:45:24 AM
Here you go. Too much effort for you to do a quick Google search yourself I guess.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/16/twitter-backtracks-allows-sharing-of-new-york-post-biden-story.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/16/twitter-backtracks-allows-sharing-of-new-york-post-biden-story.html)

Lol-that was only ONE of the things they did to suppress the story, so you are correct after a couple of days they reversed that one element of their suppression

LOL my arse. If it was so insignificant why did you make such a big deal about my supposedly not being able to "prove" it instead of just taking the time to look it up yourself?

The story came out on the 14th. Including the time it took Twitter to debate about it and ban it's being shared, then reverse course, it was back being spread far and wide on their platform by the 16th.





Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 11:34:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 03:23:25 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:45:24 AM
Here you go. Too much effort for you to do a quick Google search yourself I guess.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/16/twitter-backtracks-allows-sharing-of-new-york-post-biden-story.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/16/twitter-backtracks-allows-sharing-of-new-york-post-biden-story.html)

Lol-that was only ONE of the things they did to suppress the story, so you are correct after a couple of days they reversed that one element of their suppression

LOL my arse. If it was so insignificant why did you make such a big deal about my supposedly not being able to "prove" it instead of just taking the time to look it up yourself?

The story came out on the 14th. Including the time it took Twitter to debate about it and ban it's being shared, then reverse course, it was back being spread far and wide on their platform by the 16th.

Because once again you're not proving anything like you claim you're proving

You're taking a laughably narrow definition of how the story was "suppressed"

That was just ONE element of the suppression that occurred

The others lasted longer than 1 or 2 days

But believe whatever you want p

https://nypost.com/2021/03/25/dorsey-says-blocking-posts-hunter-biden-story-was-total-mistake/


Twitter also locked The Post out of its account for more than two weeks over baseless charges that the exposé used hacked information — a decision Dorsey chalked up to a "process error."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:05:31 PM
Unlike you, I don't try to put words in people's mouths.
What am I supposedly claiming to prove now?
Last week you went off on a dishonest tangent about how I was supposedly trying to convince everyone that Fox News didn't cover the story. What am I supposed to be selling this week?
I don't really care that the NY Post and Twitter were in a stand-off for two weeks over the tweets. If you want to detail the rights and wrongs of that dispute, based on what was known at the time, knock yourself out.
The only point I was making is that the "suppression", i.e. sharing, of the story (via Twitter) lasted about a day and was completely defensible at the time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 01:16:00 PM
You've completely lost the plot

NY Post had the hard drive and had started publishing the content and immediately they were shut down- FOR TWO WEEKS!!!!!!!!!! (In the run up to the election I may add)

But because Twitter unfroze ONE, let me repeat ONE of the bombshells, after two days, in your view Twitters suppression of the story lasted one or two days.

Here's what you said

"We're talking about whether Twitter was justified in hesitating (for one day) to allow the spread of a story the WSJ and even Fox News wouldn't break."

For one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one dayFor one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one day
For one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one day
For one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one day
For one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one day for one day




Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:27:58 PM
That's hilarious.

How many stories and revelations were shut down or prevented from being shared on Twitter because the official NY Post account was frozen?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:27:58 PM
That's hilarious.

How many stories and revelations were shut down or prevented from being shared on Twitter because the official NY Post account was frozen?

How long is a Piece of rope

Everything single thing on the hard drive was prevented from being shared on Twitter because their account was frozen
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:27:58 PM
That's hilarious.

How many stories and revelations were shut down or prevented from being shared on Twitter because the official NY Post account was frozen?

How long is a Piece of rope

Everything single thing on the hard drive was prevented from being shared on Twitter because their account was frozen

So no one could share links to the NY Post website via Twitter?

No one could tweet or share links to secondary reporting?

No one could tweet or share links to opinion pieces providing details?

No one could go on Twitter and just rant themselves about the revelations from the Post?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:27:58 PM
That's hilarious.

How many stories and revelations were shut down or prevented from being shared on Twitter because the official NY Post account was frozen?

How long is a Piece of rope

Everything single thing on the hard drive was prevented from being shared on Twitter because their account was frozen

So no one could share links to the NY Post website via Twitter?

No one could tweet or share links to secondary reporting?

No one could tweet or share links to opinion pieces providing details?

No one could go on Twitter and just rant themselves about the revelations from the Post?

NY Post had started publishing the content of the laptop and they were stopped dead in their tracks for two whole weeks. (After their initial bombshell reports)

THAT IS SUPPRESSION


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 02:38:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:27:58 PM
That's hilarious.

How many stories and revelations were shut down or prevented from being shared on Twitter because the official NY Post account was frozen?

How long is a Piece of rope

Everything single thing on the hard drive was prevented from being shared on Twitter because their account was frozen

So no one could share links to the NY Post website via Twitter?

No one could tweet or share links to secondary reporting?

No one could tweet or share links to opinion pieces providing details?

No one could go on Twitter and just rant themselves about the revelations from the Post?

NY Post had started publishing the content of the laptop and they were stopped dead in their tracks for two whole weeks. (After their initial bombshell reports)

THAT IS SUPPRESSION

So they put nothing out in the print paper or on their website?

Because their Twitter account was frozen?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 02:38:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 01:27:58 PM
That's hilarious.

How many stories and revelations were shut down or prevented from being shared on Twitter because the official NY Post account was frozen?

How long is a Piece of rope

Everything single thing on the hard drive was prevented from being shared on Twitter because their account was frozen

So no one could share links to the NY Post website via Twitter?

No one could tweet or share links to secondary reporting?

No one could tweet or share links to opinion pieces providing details?

No one could go on Twitter and just rant themselves about the revelations from the Post?

NY Post had started publishing the content of the laptop and they were stopped dead in their tracks for two whole weeks. (After their initial bombshell reports)

THAT IS SUPPRESSION

So they put nothing out in the print paper or on their website?

Because their Twitter account was frozen?

We're talking about how TWITTER suppressed the story on their platform.

And now you're deflecting by talking about print newspaper and regular old Websites
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 03:24:36 PM
They're simple questions and very relevant.

You're arrogantly sitting up there on your high horse accusing me of having lost the plot and more, so you should have no problem answering them.

We have two different things here:

1.   Twitter, for some period between one and two days, stopped the sharing, by anyone, of the original Hunter Biden story on its platform due to serious doubts over its provenance. That is both the original tweets from the NY Post, AND the sharing of links to the story.

2.   The second issue is, given the freeze on the official NY Post account, whether Twitter ALSO prevented the sharing of the story (and follow up stories) from other sources, whether it was links to the Post website; secondary reporting from other organizations; opinion pieces providing details; personal tweets providing details/commentary.

You said that the Post's revelations were "stopped dead in their tracks for two whole weeks".

Well were they or not?


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 03:41:49 PM
WERE DISCUSSING TWITTER.....not webpages and not print newspapers not what other people were or weren't able to do

The NY Post was the got to source for the story because they were the only ones I believe who had the hard drive in their possession 

New revelations could not be shared on Twitter by the NY Post because their account was suspended

That's flat out suppression of the story.....

If Twitter did nothing wrong why did they say it was a mistake and apologize for freezing their account?

https://nypost.com/2021/03/25/dorsey-says-blocking-posts-hunter-biden-story-was-total-mistake/amp/

" But Dorsey dodged a question from Rep. Steve Scalise about who decided to freeze the 200-year-old newspaper's account."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 04:23:31 PM
So leaving aside the initial 1-2 day hold-up of the story, this whole bruhaha is over whether the NY Post could THEMSELVES tweet the story?

Its not about whether they could publish their findings?

Not about their revelations being stopped "dead in their tracks for two whole weeks" LOL?

Not about others not being able publish links to the Post's website editions of the stories?

Not about others not being able to publish secondary reporting or opinion pieces or independent musings which detailed the findings.

This is ALL about whether the dissemination of the story came via official NY Post tweets instead of Fox News or WSJ tweets or Breitbart's website or Trump himself or any of the thousands of other sources and channels out there, whether print, email, tweet, Facebook/Instagram/Tik Tok, radio, cable news etc. etc. etc.?

Ok then.

On the freezing of the Post's account, I've already said I don't give a bollocks about it, but I'll expand.

Dealing with online misinformation was a hot and pertinent issue at the time with no manual to refer to. This was a story with problematic written all over it from the beginning. If Dorsey later felt he couldn't defend what they did in retrospect, so be it, but it was something they were basically making up as they went along. Musk himself came out about a month ago and said, in advance, pleading for patience, that they (Twitter) would be f**king up here and there in the coming months as they try to figure out, through trial and error, how to operate the platform according to his wishes.

Second, the actual consequences of what Twitter did had little suppressive effect on the story. If anything, it blew the story up even more. It was all over the place, even being discussed here on a bloody website populated by Irish people here to discuss, primarily, GAA. But, as with so much of the overhyped nonsense that comes out of the US right, many people just didn't give a shit or see it as particularly relevant. They were less concerned that Joe Biden's son was a basket case trading on his father's name than they were about getting the actual basket case racist, covid-denying president out of the White House.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 04:39:45 PM
So by your standards locking their account for 2 weeks (while they were in sole possession of the hard drive) was not an attempt at suppression?

Fair enough

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 12, 2022, 04:49:53 PM
You lads off for the holidays already?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 12, 2022, 05:52:46 PM
You lads need give this forum a break, bound help your blood pressure. The constant back and forth stopped any poster dipping in with the odd comment to stop long ago.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 06:25:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 04:39:45 PM
So by your standards locking their account for 2 weeks (while they were in sole possession of the hard drive) was not an attempt at suppression?

Fair enough

No, I didn't say that.

I said it was inconsequential and had no real effect. And may have been perfectly defensible at the time from Twitter's perspective.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 06:26:54 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 12, 2022, 05:52:46 PM
You lads need give this forum a break, bound help your bloody od pressure. The constant back and forth stopped any poster dipping in with the odd comment to stop long ago.

Well sure stick us on ignore then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 06:47:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 06:25:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 04:39:45 PM
So by your standards locking their account for 2 weeks (while they were in sole possession of the hard drive) was not an attempt at suppression?

Fair enough

No, I didn't say that.

I said it was inconsequential and had no real effect. And may have been perfectly defensible at the time from Twitter's perspective.

LOL

Probably the biggest October surprise in the History of Presidential campaigns and the shuttering of their access to Twitter "was inconsequential and had no real effect"

How convenient

Was it suppression?

Yes or no?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 06:57:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 06:47:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 06:25:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 04:39:45 PM
So by your standards locking their account for 2 weeks (while they were in sole possession of the hard drive) was not an attempt at suppression?

Fair enough

No, I didn't say that.

I said it was inconsequential and had no real effect. And may have been perfectly defensible at the time from Twitter's perspective.

LOL

Probably the biggest October surprise in the History of Presidential campaigns and the shuttering of their access to Twitter "was inconsequential and had no real effect"

How convenient

Was it suppression?

Yes or no?

Yes.

Now how about you be honest and acknowledge that it had f**k all effect on the spread of a story which was otherwise out there both on and off Twitter?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on December 12, 2022, 07:39:42 PM
Thread might be locked and a few posters given time off until January...just a thought at this stage, but might gain traction quickly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 12, 2022, 07:46:47 PM
Fair enough. Have at it lads.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2022, 08:26:17 PM
I'm torn about this thread. It's a topic that's worth discussing, but the constant repetition of conservative talking points by two Fox News-heads makes it terribly tedious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on December 12, 2022, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 07:46:47 PM
Fair enough. Have at it lads.

Good luck J70

I think we have devoted more than enough time to this

Have a great Christmas with your family
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 12, 2022, 09:16:23 PM
A discussion forum that wants to stop discussion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 12, 2022, 09:44:01 PM
You put any normal poster of posting long ago. You need a hard look at yourselves with some of the stuff posted on here You make, Ireland sound a great place compared to America.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on December 12, 2022, 10:16:09 PM
I think must of us in Ireland wouldn't mind an update on things political in America...but the minutiae of detail on, for example, Hunter Biden's laptop is not needed, neither is dissection of Trump's latest proclamation/dinner guest or whatever he's up to on a particular day. 

The news in Ireland carries enough info on politics whether in Dublin, London or in Washington, and the good old internet has plenty avenues for those looking for more detail.  A general discussion on the main items of the day is about as much as what's needed on here.

This is primarily a GAA discussion site, with non-GAA matters allowed as well.  But the emphasis is on GAA.

A restriction of one post per poster per day would be nice in this thread.  Hearing the Irish expats views from both sides would be welcome and help the rest of us understand what's going on. 

At the rate they are going, the thread won't last much longer.  So it's up to the few of you to move past the current tone of discussion.

Thanks.



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 13, 2022, 06:43:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 12, 2022, 08:26:17 PM
I'm torn about this thread. It's a topic that's worth discussing, but the constant repetition of conservative talking points by two Fox News-heads makes it terribly tedious.

You're as bad as any of them. Everything is a constant dig. You're still at it even now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2022, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 12, 2022, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 12, 2022, 07:46:47 PM
Fair enough. Have at it lads.

Good luck J70

I think we have devoted more than enough time to this

Have a great Christmas with your family

You too whitey.

Looks like this thread is done. Its been interesting, challenging, and for the most part, enjoyable hashing it out with you!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: From the Bunker on December 21, 2022, 08:47:34 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkh1vRaWQAIEn49?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 22, 2022, 01:05:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 21, 2022, 08:47:34 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkh1vRaWQAIEn49?format=jpg&name=small)
don't forget 10% for the big guy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on December 22, 2022, 01:19:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 21, 2022, 08:47:34 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkh1vRaWQAIEn49?format=jpg&name=small)

Is Biden tall or Zelensky short?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 29, 2022, 04:11:09 AM
This George Santos is some buck   ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on December 30, 2022, 10:46:17 PM
Trump taxes anyone ? Another hoax , nuclear secrets for $20 Alex
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on January 05, 2023, 06:10:36 PM
I think its a poor censorship comment from the Mod on this thread, there are so many exiles living in the USA and when you start limiting posts to one a day on the rest of the non GAA related threads - you might have a point I can understand.

That said, there are a couple regurgitative posters who appear to disengage their common ground before engaging on this thread, and some poor perspectives on the black and whites of right and wrong which surprises me coming from the mouths of Irishmen and Irishwomen. There is a LOT to unpack in American Politics, indeed never has the thread title seemed more Apt. Tyrone's Own - often wonder what happened him.

This vote for the speaker of the house is enthralling viewing. The fabric of the GOP is irreparably torn and it remains to be seen who, or what is the glue that can patch it back together. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2023, 06:35:09 PM
I'm not re-engaging with this thread, but I will say that I am enjoying this. This is McCarthy, a man without a shred of dignity or an ounce of principle, who has debased himself at the feet of Trump, who has basically pulled his trousers down for these right wing lunatics in pursuit of their vote, who has literally sold his soul in pursuit of the Speakership. He has utterly humiliated himself. And they still won't support him!

I hope it was worth it My Kevin, you spineless worm!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 05, 2023, 07:03:55 PM
The Republicans are a flat out disgrace

They have surrendered the party to a bunch of flat out lunatics

Trump probably cost them 4 senate seats and 20 (just my view) house seats, but they deserve everything that's happening to them

They made a deal with the devil, but when they had a chance for a clean break on Jan 6th 2021 they punted. And now they're paying for it

(My one post for the week)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 10, 2023, 02:53:13 PM
Any outrage over classified documents today ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 03:37:33 AM
Joe had the classified documents locked in his garage with his corvette, cmon man
Something very suss about all this , Gavin lurking in the background
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on January 13, 2023, 10:41:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 03:37:33 AM
Joe had the classified documents locked in his garage with his corvette, cmon man
Something very suss about all this , Gavin lurking in the background

Fuckin hell, why would the Russians need to grease the palms of certain politicians when all they have to do is rock up to Joe's Garage or play a round of golf at Mar-a-lago...

How lax can it be?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2023, 07:56:54 PM
Trump Organization fined $1.6 million after conviction for 17 felonies, including a decade-long tax fraud scheme.

"Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass asked Judge Juan Merchan to make the Trump Org. pay the maximum fine, though he admitted that it will have a "minimal impact" on a multibillion-dollar company."

They need to lock him up and be done with it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 09:59:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2023, 07:56:54 PM
Trump Organization fined $1.6 million after conviction for 17 felonies, including a decade-long tax fraud scheme.

"Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass asked Judge Juan Merchan to make the Trump Org. pay the maximum fine, though he admitted that it will have a "minimal impact" on a multibillion-dollar company."

They need to lock him up and be done with it.
they got him this time ✊
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2023, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 09:59:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2023, 07:56:54 PM
Trump Organization fined $1.6 million after conviction for 17 felonies, including a decade-long tax fraud scheme.

"Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass asked Judge Juan Merchan to make the Trump Org. pay the maximum fine, though he admitted that it will have a "minimal impact" on a multibillion-dollar company."

They need to lock him up and be done with it.
they got him this time ✊

Looks like there wasn't a whole lot to chew on in the tax returns either

Media has a lot to answer for riling people up with all these faux outrages
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:45:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2023, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 09:59:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2023, 07:56:54 PM
Trump Organization fined $1.6 million after conviction for 17 felonies, including a decade-long tax fraud scheme.

"Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass asked Judge Juan Merchan to make the Trump Org. pay the maximum fine, though he admitted that it will have a "minimal impact" on a multibillion-dollar company."

They need to lock him up and be done with it.
they got him this time ✊

Looks like there wasn't a whole lot to chew on in the tax returns either

Media has a lot to answer for riling people up with all these faux outrages
how many buffers would trump have between him and a jail sentence for something the Trump org is guilty of ? Talk about low IQ viewers
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 13, 2023, 11:49:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:45:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 13, 2023, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 09:59:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2023, 07:56:54 PM
Trump Organization fined $1.6 million after conviction for 17 felonies, including a decade-long tax fraud scheme.

"Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass asked Judge Juan Merchan to make the Trump Org. pay the maximum fine, though he admitted that it will have a "minimal impact" on a multibillion-dollar company."

They need to lock him up and be done with it.
they got him this time ✊

Looks like there wasn't a whole lot to chew on in the tax returns either

Media has a lot to answer for riling people up with all these faux outrages
how many buffers would trump have between him and a jail sentence for something the Trump org is guilty of ? Talk about low IQ viewers

Especially considering he doesn't text or email
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 17, 2023, 05:14:11 AM
The Albuquerque Police Department has arrested Solomon Pena, an unsuccessful Republican candidate for House District 14 seat in the South Valley, in connection with the shootings at local Democratic politicians' homes, the police chief announced Monday afternoon.

"Pena, an unsuccessful legislative candidate in the 2022 election, is accused of conspiring with, and paying four other men to shoot at the homes of two county commissioners and two state legislators," Chief Harold Medina said.

Albuquerque Journal
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 08:48:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 29, 2022, 04:11:09 AM
This George Santos is some buck   ;D

LOL - that was only half of it back then

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fm291sAWIAA0XA6?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2023, 09:39:24 PM
I'm actually more curious as to why Hunter Biden was supposedly paying his father $50K rent PER MONTH
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 10:03:42 PM
As opposed to living rent-free in your head
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on January 19, 2023, 10:21:59 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 10:03:42 PM
As opposed to living rent-free in your head

??

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on January 19, 2023, 11:35:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 19, 2023, 10:21:59 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 10:03:42 PM
As opposed to living rent-free in your head

??
50k a month for a home and access to classified documents
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 20, 2023, 06:03:30 PM
Today in triggered sex-obsessed conservatives:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/326461565_577094233893188_923668767860566184_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s600x600&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=KYgQCjbBWWMAX9cs_9E&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AfA2mXu-X12r3HlXUj0i3VQ8m9sSjgrUpXTal8PU93drZQ&oe=63D006CC)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 06:06:13 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/327092452_5720156228039042_8408298174304680478_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=in_bRLU5nu8AX9Lqiu0&tn=xNb5rpJqnYq6E3Bm&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AfCcO2VRtOZzywEi8_opSZdlZDPDN4bcpKK0SrI1L2UUWw&oe=63D795E0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: thejuice on February 01, 2023, 06:37:28 AM
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/blast-heard-military-plant-irans-central-city-isfahan-state-media-2023-01-28/

I guess world war 3 can't start soon enough for some people.

DUBAI/WASHINGTON, Jan 29 (Reuters) - Israel appears to have been behind an overnight drone attack on a military factory in Iran, a U.S. official said on Sunday.

Iran claimed to have intercepted drones that struck a military industry target near the central city of Isfahan, and said there were no casualties or serious damage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 03, 2023, 11:24:18 PM
What the hell is this balloon 💭 ?
Unauthorized in American airspace and not shot down ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 04, 2023, 12:23:23 AM
Very strange to be honest, I say, they try capture it, for analysis.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2023, 08:58:58 AM
Watched Vice last night, Dick Cheney story! He's a piece of work
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 08, 2023, 11:19:04 PM
Is another conspiracy coming true,  nord  stream blown up by joe and co ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 09, 2023, 12:01:52 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 08, 2023, 11:19:04 PM
Is another conspiracy coming true,  nord  stream blown up by joe and co ?

Well.... he did say he would do it!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 09, 2023, 12:08:21 AM
Immature Rethuglican gulpins heckling their president last night during SOTU. How embarrassing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 09, 2023, 06:25:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 09, 2023, 12:08:21 AM
Immature Rethuglican gulpins heckling their president last night during SOTU. How embarrassing.

Could be worse. Could have tried to steal the limelight by tearing his speech up behind him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 09, 2023, 07:43:34 PM
Oh the poor little lamb. I'm sure he got over it eventually.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 09, 2023, 08:50:22 PM
As I'm sure Biden will.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 09, 2023, 09:32:52 PM
Won the popular vote. Kept the senate in the midterms. He'll be all right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on February 09, 2023, 10:39:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 09, 2023, 12:01:52 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 08, 2023, 11:19:04 PM
Is another conspiracy coming true,  nord  stream blown up by joe and co ?

Well.... he did say he would do it!
strange that people are worried about global warming and emissions destroying the planet in 100 years but an incompetent president and his cronies trying to start ww3 is no big deal.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on February 28, 2023, 10:07:53 AM
Any of you lads/ladies know the current restrictions of flying into the US without a Covid vaccine, can a tourist do that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2023, 10:46:18 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 28, 2023, 10:07:53 AM
Any of you lads/ladies know the current restrictions of flying into the US without a Covid vaccine, can a tourist do that?

Think you currently still need proof of vaccination.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-during-covid19.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-during-covid19.html)

There is legislation in the works in Congress to end it, so it might change soon.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on February 28, 2023, 11:54:21 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 28, 2023, 10:07:53 AM
Any of you lads/ladies know the current restrictions of flying into the US without a Covid vaccine, can a tourist do that?

My niece came to United States with a fake vaccine card no issues straight through.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gawa316 on February 28, 2023, 02:55:09 PM
Any ideas is it okay to fly between the US and Ireland with 6 months left on a passport?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on February 28, 2023, 03:53:33 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on February 28, 2023, 02:55:09 PM
Any ideas is it okay to fly between the US and Ireland with 6 months left on a passport?

according to this https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2022-Mar/Six-Month%20Passport%20Validity%20Update%2020220316.pdf
Ireland is exempt from the 6 month rule.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gawa316 on February 28, 2023, 04:12:51 PM
Quote from: dec on February 28, 2023, 03:53:33 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on February 28, 2023, 02:55:09 PM
Any ideas is it okay to fly between the US and Ireland with 6 months left on a passport?

according to this https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2022-Mar/Six-Month%20Passport%20Validity%20Update%2020220316.pdf
Ireland is exempt from the 6 month rule.

Cheers.

What about US to Ireland? We'll be returning to US on May 30 but the boys passports expire Oct 23
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 01, 2023, 02:35:20 PM
Beetle juice out in Chicago
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 13, 2023, 02:20:59 PM
The meltdown is starting thanks joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: From the Bunker on March 13, 2023, 02:34:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2023, 02:35:20 PM
Beetle juice out in Chicago

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXacNQfXoAEhocW.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2023, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 13, 2023, 02:20:59 PM
The meltdown is starting thanks joe

Why are you thanking Joe?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: screenexile on March 15, 2023, 09:19:55 PM
https://twitter.com/joebrolly1993/status/1635915922861875200?s=46&t=phQ2HHkWD0UVsLqr_FKpag

Sums up the war on woke!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on March 16, 2023, 02:28:58 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2023, 09:19:55 PM
https://twitter.com/joebrolly1993/status/1635915922861875200?s=46&t=phQ2HHkWD0UVsLqr_FKpag

Sums up the war on woke!

Ron DeSantis is woke this and woke that and he'd be the same as her if asked to define what woke is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 16, 2023, 07:57:03 AM
Someone who sees offence in everything. Recent example being the word fat in Roald Dahl books.
Is usually obsessed with identity politics.
Demands everyone boycott the new Harry Potter game because of the views of the author, who wasnt even involved in the game itself.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 16, 2023, 12:51:37 PM
So you don't know the definition either then
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 16, 2023, 01:10:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 16, 2023, 07:57:03 AM
Someone who sees offence in everything. Recent example being the word fat in Roald Dahl books.
Is usually obsessed with identity politics.
Demands everyone boycott the new Harry Potter game because of the views of the author, who wasnt even involved in the game itself.



Fox News seems to be offended by everything. And they want to make sure their viewers are just as offended.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 16, 2023, 01:15:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 16, 2023, 12:51:37 PM
So you don't know the definition either then

I do, you just don't like it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tonto1888 on March 16, 2023, 01:31:01 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 16, 2023, 01:15:03 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 16, 2023, 12:51:37 PM
So you don't know the definition either then

I do, you just don't like it.

well give the definition and not just examples of what you think woke is
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 16, 2023, 02:30:16 PM
Woke = modern day liberalism = mental illness
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 16, 2023, 02:57:06 PM
Another sterling contribution from our west coast correspondent
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2023, 04:14:27 PM
David French:

Woke, defined:

Positive definition-increased awareness of very real historical and existing systemic injustice.

Negative definition-illiberal progressivism centered around race/gender.

Bad faith right-wing definition-anything even one millimeter to the tweeter's left.

6:55 PM · Mar 15, 2023    ·372K Views

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20 (https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 16, 2023, 06:37:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2023, 04:14:27 PM
David French:

Woke, defined:

Positive definition-increased awareness of very real historical and existing systemic injustice.

Negative definition-illiberal progressivism centered around race/gender.

Bad faith right-wing definition-anything even one millimeter to the tweeter's left.

6:55 PM · Mar 15, 2023    ·372K Views

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20 (https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20)
mayor Pete , press secretary, Kamala , luggage thief , newest Supreme Court justice all examples of woke hires by current administration.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2023, 06:41:57 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 16, 2023, 02:57:06 PM
Another sterling contribution from our west coast correspondent

Whatever it was I'm sure I didn't miss much. Put him on ignore and your browsing experience on this board will improve greatly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2023, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 16, 2023, 06:37:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2023, 04:14:27 PM
David French:

Woke, defined:

Positive definition-increased awareness of very real historical and existing systemic injustice.

Negative definition-illiberal progressivism centered around race/gender.

Bad faith right-wing definition-anything even one millimeter to the tweeter's left.

6:55 PM · Mar 15, 2023    ·372K Views

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20 (https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20)
mayor Pete , press secretary, Kamala , luggage thief , newest Supreme Court justice all examples of woke hires by current administration.

Yeah, they're not good old, wholesome, straight white Christian men.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 16, 2023, 06:56:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2023, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 16, 2023, 06:37:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2023, 04:14:27 PM
David French:

Woke, defined:

Positive definition-increased awareness of very real historical and existing systemic injustice.

Negative definition-illiberal progressivism centered around race/gender.

Bad faith right-wing definition-anything even one millimeter to the tweeter's left.

6:55 PM · Mar 15, 2023    ·372K Views

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20 (https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20)
mayor Pete , press secretary, Kamala , luggage thief , newest Supreme Court justice all examples of woke hires by current administration.

Yeah, they're not good old, wholesome, straight white Christian men.
not the problem they got the job because of in order
Gay , woman of color  and gay , woman of color , a fluid gender human , woman of color the administration is open about this and that's why they are in the positions they are in .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2023, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 16, 2023, 06:56:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2023, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 16, 2023, 06:37:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2023, 04:14:27 PM
David French:

Woke, defined:

Positive definition-increased awareness of very real historical and existing systemic injustice.

Negative definition-illiberal progressivism centered around race/gender.

Bad faith right-wing definition-anything even one millimeter to the tweeter's left.

6:55 PM · Mar 15, 2023    ·372K Views

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20 (https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1636139037235740673?s=20)
mayor Pete , press secretary, Kamala , luggage thief , newest Supreme Court justice all examples of woke hires by current administration.

Yeah, they're not good old, wholesome, straight white Christian men.
not the problem they got the job because of in order
Gay , woman of color  and gay , woman of color , a fluid gender human , woman of color the administration is open about this and that's why they are in the positions they are in .

Most sensible people would say they got it because the administration was open to considering people regardless of their sexual orientation, gender, gender ID etc (in the last 30 years, every single GOP justice bar one has been a straight white, Christian male; the exception being a straight white, hardline catholic woman). And even if you go with your spin, there's nothing wrong with breaking glass ceilings as long as the person is qualified. Once the ceiling is broken, its not an issue anymore. Credit to Ronald Reagan back in the day for appointing Sandra Day O'Connor.

And yes, Brown Jackson did end up on the selection list because they wanted a black woman. But they didn't just open the phone book and randomly pick out black women. She was given the highest rating by the ABA. And she seems to be doing just fine, holding her own. Anyway, last time out, the Dems did go the straight white male route, but McConnell wouldn't even give the poor man a vote, nine months before the election.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 16, 2023, 07:53:50 PM
Did you know that pedophiles no longer exist

They're now called "minor attracted persons"

And rapists-well they can no longer be sent to male prisons if they decide to "identify" as a woman. They have to be sent to a female jail

And your clubs county championship winning girls team, well next week they're going to get hammered by about 30 points by a team fielding 3 or 4 players who are biologically male, but who identify as female

And the club name....well that has to change. Naming clubs after Catholic Saints or clergy is exclusionary.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 16, 2023, 08:04:57 PM
someone's celebrating early
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: rory on March 16, 2023, 10:20:40 PM
Well, that's Biden not winning Arizona in the next election
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on March 20, 2023, 08:48:01 AM
The right are woke too if its about offence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
Xi and Putin are meeting in Russia this week while joe is meeting the cast of Ted lasso , joke of an administration and it's going to be hard to come back from the mess this clown show will leave behind
Not even mentioning the clown ag in New York
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
Xi and Putin are meeting in Russia this week while joe is meeting the cast of Ted lasso , joke of an administration and it's going to be hard to come back from the mess this clown show will leave behind
Not even mentioning the clown ag in New York

He was in the Ukraine the other week, he can't be in all places all the time.. Is that the best you can do for having a go?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 21, 2023, 03:48:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
Xi and Putin are meeting in Russia this week while joe is meeting the cast of Ted lasso , joke of an administration and it's going to be hard to come back from the mess this clown show will leave behind
Not even mentioning the clown ag in New York

He was in the Ukraine the other week, he can't be in all places all the time.. Is that the best you can do for having a go?

They don't like it when you call it "The" Ukraine. Its a throwback to the USSR where every territory had The at the start of it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 04:01:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
Xi and Putin are meeting in Russia this week while joe is meeting the cast of Ted lasso , joke of an administration and it's going to be hard to come back from the mess this clown show will leave behind
Not even mentioning the clown ag in New York

He was in the Ukraine the other week, he can't be in all places all the time.. Is that the best you can do for having a go?
for what to launder more billions and make sure the country is bombed to the Stone Age so trillions can be laundered to rebuild it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2023, 04:04:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
Xi and Putin are meeting in Russia this week while joe is meeting the cast of Ted lasso , joke of an administration and it's going to be hard to come back from the mess this clown show will leave behind
Not even mentioning the clown ag in New York

He was in the Ukraine the other week, he can't be in all places all the time.. Is that the best you can do for having a go?

Maybe he thinks it will be more effective than his attempt to have a go at Biden last week for the SVB collapse.;D

All as he wines about the NYC investigation into Trump's payoff of the pornstar Trump was screwing while his wife breastfed his youngest kid and the GOP presidential hopefuls and their acolytes ape the Putin line on Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2023, 04:04:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
Xi and Putin are meeting in Russia this week while joe is meeting the cast of Ted lasso , joke of an administration and it's going to be hard to come back from the mess this clown show will leave behind
Not even mentioning the clown ag in New York

He was in the Ukraine the other week, he can't be in all places all the time.. Is that the best you can do for having a go?

Maybe he thinks it will be more effective than his attempt to have a go at Biden last week for the SVB collapse.;D

All as he wines about the NYC investigation into Trump's payoff of the pornstar Trump was screwing while his wife breastfed his youngest kid and the GOP presidential hopefuls and their acolytes ape the Putin line on Ukraine.
biden is nothing only a teleprompter reader a lemon who signs  and says what he's told , every position he takes now is opposite of what he has said and voted for in the past . New low trying to arrest political opponents, kgb tactics
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2023, 04:15:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2023, 04:04:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
Xi and Putin are meeting in Russia this week while joe is meeting the cast of Ted lasso , joke of an administration and it's going to be hard to come back from the mess this clown show will leave behind
Not even mentioning the clown ag in New York

He was in the Ukraine the other week, he can't be in all places all the time.. Is that the best you can do for having a go?

Maybe he thinks it will be more effective than his attempt to have a go at Biden last week for the SVB collapse.;D

All as he wines about the NYC investigation into Trump's payoff of the pornstar Trump was screwing while his wife breastfed his youngest kid and the GOP presidential hopefuls and their acolytes ape the Putin line on Ukraine.
biden is nothing only a teleprompter reader a lemon who signs  and says what he's told , every position he takes now is opposite of what he has said and voted for in the past . New low trying to arrest political opponents, kgb tactics

Whatever gets you through the night Gmac. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 07:45:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2023, 04:15:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2023, 04:04:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
Xi and Putin are meeting in Russia this week while joe is meeting the cast of Ted lasso , joke of an administration and it's going to be hard to come back from the mess this clown show will leave behind
Not even mentioning the clown ag in New York

He was in the Ukraine the other week, he can't be in all places all the time.. Is that the best you can do for having a go?

Maybe he thinks it will be more effective than his attempt to have a go at Biden last week for the SVB collapse.;D

All as he wines about the NYC investigation into Trump's payoff of the pornstar Trump was screwing while his wife breastfed his youngest kid and the GOP presidential hopefuls and their acolytes ape the Putin line on Ukraine.
biden is nothing only a teleprompter reader a lemon who signs  and says what he's told , every position he takes now is opposite of what he has said and voted for in the past . New low trying to arrest political opponents, kgb tactics

Whatever gets you through the night Gmac. ;D
cheering for a DA who since being elected has tossed out 69% of criminal cases put before him even though shootings are up 100% and murder up 51% , very sad indeed from a man with a family
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 21, 2023, 10:21:25 PM
1.You'll have to back up your claims on murder and shootings. (I'll not hold my breath)

2. I didn't comment on Bragg at all.

3. You're whining about an investigation into Trump which hasn't even resulted in charges yet, but have no comment whatsoever on Trump's incitement, which has a documented history of leading to violence and death, and his questioning whether the NYPD should be doing their job and protecting elected officials like Bragg. Just wait until the serious stuff in Georgia and the Justice Dept heads towards conclusion! And all this as Trump is starting to go to work on DeSantis, who is supposed to be your boy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 22, 2023, 04:52:14 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/317750860_6080198348691221_576340649112135879_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6UFLeUsXssgAX99OVZQ&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AfBZiSWCq1uqneMrSmosQHdorA1UfSxjVSGNi-z9u2MPcA&oe=641F4118)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 22, 2023, 11:29:40 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 21, 2023, 10:21:25 PM1.You'll have to back up your claims on murder and shootings. (I'll not hold my breath)

Well - it's Charlie Kirk using the NY Post as a source
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2023, 12:09:29 PM
Ah thanks, so I see Kirk's post which Gmac appears to be sourcing.

A couple of small issues from a quick scan...

1.   The 51% murder increase from 2019-21 appears to refer to the whole city. Bragg is DA for Manhattan. If there is data for Manhattan alone, someone should post it.
2.   The 2022 figures showed a roughly 10% decline in murders for the whole city from 2021.
3.   Bragg wasn't DA in 2019-21. He took office in January 2022.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 22, 2023, 01:03:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2023, 12:09:29 PM
Ah thanks, so I see Kirk's post which Gmac appears to be sourcing.

A couple of small issues from a quick scan...

1.   The 51% murder increase from 2019-21 appears to refer to the whole city. Bragg is DA for Manhattan. If there is data for Manhattan alone, someone should post it.
2.   The 2022 figures showed a roughly 10% decline in murders for the whole city from 2021.
3.   Bragg wasn't DA in 2019-21. He took office in January 2022.


Pah!

You bleeding heart liberals and your "facts"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2023, 01:09:56 PM
And in another piece of utter shite from Kirk's allegation that he pulled out of the Post article, the 69% case dismissal stat was current as of October 2021, before Bragg was even elected, never mind assumed office, and was due to a new state law (not city or Manhattan borough) on evidence discovery. Bragg himself is even quoted in the article complaining about the effects of the law on staff retention in the DA's office!

https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/new-study-shows-how-ny-law-puts-bad-guys-back-on-streets/ (https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/new-study-shows-how-ny-law-puts-bad-guys-back-on-streets/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2023, 02:01:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2023, 01:09:56 PM
And in another piece of utter shite from Kirk's allegation that he pulled out of the Post article, the 69% case dismissal stat was current as of October 2021, before Bragg was even elected, never mind assumed office, and was due to a new state law (not city or Manhattan borough) on evidence discovery. Bragg himself is even quoted in the article complaining about the effects of the law on staff retention in the DA's office!

https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/new-study-shows-how-ny-law-puts-bad-guys-back-on-streets/ (https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/new-study-shows-how-ny-law-puts-bad-guys-back-on-streets/)
who passes the laws in New York ? Liberals , leave gun crime go through the roof cops don't respond DAs don't prosecute and then say it's gone down, the oldest trick in the liberal hand book , car break ins are down in SF because cops don't even bother responding anymore.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 22, 2023, 02:08:51 PM
So instead of "oops, my bad, I probably shouldn't rely on the likes of Charlie Kirk", its double down on the ranting, throw more hyped up shite at the wall and see if THAT might stick!

Suit yourself. We'll get banned if this dumb exchange continues.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 22, 2023, 02:18:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2023, 02:08:51 PM
So instead of "oops, my bad, I probably shouldn't rely on the likes of Charlie Kirk", its double down on the ranting, throw more hyped up shite at the wall and see if THAT might stick!

Suit yourself. We'll get banned if this dumb exchange continues.
retail theft in California is way down too nearly nonexistent , you can walk out the door with $950 worth of merchandise and staff are told to leave them go , so it's way down
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 30, 2023, 08:47:38 PM
The j6 shaman has been released after being set up by prosecutors and fbi time to lock up the criminal who set him up . Also Tennessee has a insurrection going on today can't wait for the outrage.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 30, 2023, 09:17:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2023, 08:47:38 PM
The j6 shaman has been released after being set up by prosecutors and fbi time to lock up the criminal who set him up . Also Tennessee has a insurrection going on today can't wait for the outrage.

Uh-huh.;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 30, 2023, 10:37:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2023, 09:17:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2023, 08:47:38 PM
The j6 shaman has been released after being set up by prosecutors and fbi time to lock up the criminal who set him up . Also Tennessee has a insurrection going on today can't wait for the outrage.

Uh-huh.;D
free the shaman indict Trump , SAD
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 30, 2023, 11:00:27 PM
Quotetime to lock up the criminal who set him up

they just announced they will
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2023, 11:10:47 PM
They've got him!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 30, 2023, 11:19:58 PM
He had just been indicted, not convicted.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 30, 2023, 11:37:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2023, 11:10:47 PM
They've got him!
laugh now cry later a great 21st century philosopher once wrote
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2023, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2023, 11:19:58 PM
He had just been indicted, not convicted.

I don't care. I'll take it. Another first for the loser.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 30, 2023, 11:46:08 PM
Radical Soros backed DA, indicting Trump on very flimsy charges

If Trump doesn't get convicted he's got a great chance in 2024
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 30, 2023, 11:47:13 PM
One of the better tweets I've seen


'Home Alone 2: Lost in New York' star Donald Trump has been indicted on criminal charges.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 30, 2023, 11:59:52 PM
I'm waiting for the Georgia and Jan 6 charges.

Michael Cohen has already taken the fall for Trump on this crime, just like Weisselberg on the other stuff. It's good to have buffers between you and your criminal activity.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 01:13:31 AM
Weimar Republic stuff with our own paul von Hindenburg
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 01:34:06 AM
Quote from: dec on March 30, 2023, 11:19:58 PM
He had just been indicted, not convicted.

Another first for the thug who will go down as a shit stain on the history of the US presidency.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on March 31, 2023, 10:40:58 AM
How does his relationship with a porn star and multiple affairs and marriages fit in with his and followers Christian values.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on March 31, 2023, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 30, 2023, 11:37:08 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2023, 11:10:47 PM
They've got him!
laugh now cry later a great 21st century philosopher once wrote

Shite remix of Ebeneezer Goode right there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 31, 2023, 11:57:35 AM
Soros again - some of you boys see Soros every time you close your eyes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 12:11:22 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on March 31, 2023, 10:40:58 AM
How does his relationship with a porn star and multiple affairs and marriages fit in with his and followers Christian values.

Quite well apparently. They've come a long way from less than a decade ago when they used to lecture everyone else about the importance of "character" and "values".

Or maybe they're just power and money-hungry cynics.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BVUAAOSwHhVgnzEk/s-l500.jpg)

(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/25d/07b/26b2881c6d482eab4be4b965851d420676-14-trump-evangelicals.rhorizontal.w700.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 12:18:02 PM
I wonder was The Lord present when Trump was sticking it in Stormy Daniels while his post-natal wife breast fed their infant son?

I wonder was he/she/they present when Trump was directing Michael Cohen to pay off Stormy Daniels so that her story wouldn't come out in the aftermath of the Access Hollywood tape?

Was The Lord present when Trump was ripping those little kids out of their parent's arms and shipping them off across the country to be lost in the system?

These are complex issues to ponder for the average American Christian.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 03:10:44 PM
Whatever you think of Trump it can't be disputed that the current administration is the worst ever with a dementia patient (Von Hindenburg ) as president while the nazis work in the background, remember whatever they call you is in fact what they are .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 31, 2023, 03:42:15 PM
The AI ChatGPT chatbots are getting worse
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 03:54:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 31, 2023, 03:42:15 PM
The AI ChatGPT chatbots are getting worse

I don't know. I'd expect something coherent and somewhat sensible from those Chat GPT yokes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:01:18 PM
David Frum (from The Atlantic)

MARCH 30, 2023, 7:19 PM ET

The first Catholic. The first African American. Someday, maybe soon, the first woman. The history of the presidency is a history of firsts. Now there is one more: the first former president to be indicted.

It's a solemn and sad moment. It's also a fiercely just moment.

Remember that although Donald Trump's indictment in New York has been confirmed by one of his attorneys, we do not yet know, as of the evening of Thursday, March 30, what he has been indicted for. When Trump himself circulated the first rumors of his pending indictment, many reacted with rapid comments on the inadvisability of indicting a former president for offenses arising from a sexual affair, a reservation I share. But it's also possible that this reported indictment arises from the Trump Organization's decades-long practices of criminal tax fraud.

In 2018, The New York Times reported that the Trump family had allegedly evaded hundreds of millions of dollars in estate taxes through complex schemes of false invoicing. In 2022, a New York State court convicted the Trump Organization of evading income taxes through false invoicing. When it came time to pay off women who claimed to have had sexual connections with Trump, he allegedly reverted to long-standing practice.

This is how the Trump case might diverge from that of John Edwards, the former Democratic presidential candidate charged with diverting campaign funds to a former lover. The case against Trump might not be a sex-payoff case, or even a campaign-finance case. It could fundamentally be a tax-fraud case, the latest installment of a multigenerational criminal practice that has cheated the people of the United States and New York of huge amounts of money.


More indictments by more states in more cases may be filed soon. Donald Trump is not an occasional lawbreaker. He incited the mob that ended the American tradition of the peaceful transfer of power—and that inflicted unnecessary injury and avoidable death both upon law-enforcement officers and Trump's own deceived supporters. He tried to intimidate state-level election officials to manipulate vote totals to fraudulently preserve his hold on office. The jeopardy will only accumulate.

Trump may regard the present indictment and those to come as a political resource. He has surged in Republican polls since he announced the indictment was on its way. His leading party rival has deflated in the polls. Trump has raised millions of dollars on the news, and may in the next hours raise many more. There's no denying that he's now the overwhelming favorite to be the next Republican nominee, and therefore stands an excellent chance of winning the presidency in 2024.

Atop all the other questions on the ballot in that election, therefore, will be this: Crime and violence and Trump, or law and the Constitution—where do you stand?

Good God, where does his Republican Party and mine now stand? The wrong is overwhelming and the shame is crushing—but the only decent choice for the honest and patriotic American is now starker, purer, and more certain than ever
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:07:17 PM
But remember, the Dems are all Nazis and Biden is von Hindenburg (who is Hitler in this parable Gmac is preaching to us fresh from the fever swamps??).

Trump is a victim; he is not corrupt, he doesn't incite violence, he doesn't flout the law, he doesn't try to steal elections and he is absolutely undeserving of any of the charges which are coming his way in two states and from the feds.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2023, 04:27:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:07:17 PM
But remember, the Dems are all Nazis and Biden is von Hindenburg (who is Hitler in this parable Gmac is preaching to us fresh from the fever swamps??).

Trump is a victim; he is not corrupt, he doesn't incite violence, he doesn't flout the law, he doesn't try to steal elections and he is absolutely undeserving of any of the charges which are coming his way in two states and from the feds.

All true J70

Let's see if the Democrats can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again

The culture wars have come to my town-it's very interesting and it's actually getting the conservatives in the area completely fired up

Did you know that if you question whether a book was properly vetted before being placed in the junior high school library you "are committing a hate crime against  trans and LBGTQ youth and you are both committing and inciting violence against them"

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 04:39:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:07:17 PM
But remember, the Dems are all Nazis and Biden is von Hindenburg (who is Hitler in this parable Gmac is preaching to us fresh from the fever swamps??).

Trump is a victim; he is not corrupt, he doesn't incite violence, he doesn't flout the law, he doesn't try to steal elections and he is absolutely undeserving of any of the charges which are coming his way in two states and from the feds.
after 3 kids and 3 adults were shot in Tennessee Monday biden proceeded to give a speech where he talked about ice cream non stop the man's an embarrassment  and the country will not recover from this administration im afraid
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
Yes whitey, and a school principal got the sack in Florida because of Michaelangelo's David. A professor, also in Florida, got the sack because one parent objected to a racial justice lesson he taught that had been part of his course for 12 years.

There's idiots all around.

Do YOU think Trump should not be held accountable? Is he above the law that the rest of us are subject to? Has he no case to answer for January 6th? For his shenanigans in GA in the 2020 election?

Cohen got severely punished for his role in the payoffs to the porn star and the other woman. Should there be no accountability whatsoever for the man whose bidding he was doing and who tried to fraudulently hide the repayments?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2023, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
Yes whitey, and a school principal got the sack in Florida because of Michaelangelo's David. A professor, also in Florida, got the sack because one parent objected to a racial justice lesson he taught that had been part of his course for 12 years.

There's idiots all around.

Do YOU think Trump should not be held accountable? Is he above the law that the rest of us are subject to? Has he no case to answer for January 6th? For his shenanigans in GA in the 2020 election?

Cohen got severely punished for his role in the payoffs to the porn star and the other woman. Should there be no accountability whatsoever for the man whose bidding he was doing and who tried to fraudulently hide the repayments?

Yes-Trump should be convicted and GA is the strongest case

BUT.....according to what I've read and heard.....it's a weak case in NY

If Bragg fails to get a conviction, it is really good for Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:51:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 04:39:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:07:17 PM
But remember, the Dems are all Nazis and Biden is von Hindenburg (who is Hitler in this parable Gmac is preaching to us fresh from the fever swamps??).

Trump is a victim; he is not corrupt, he doesn't incite violence, he doesn't flout the law, he doesn't try to steal elections and he is absolutely undeserving of any of the charges which are coming his way in two states and from the feds.
after 3 kids and 3 adults were shot in Tennessee Monday biden proceeded to give a speech where he talked about ice cream non stop the man's an embarrassment  and the country will not recover from this administration im afraid

He made a single, throw away joke at the start of a speech which was not a press conference, then he made remarks on the murders. Not his best moment maybe, but pretty far from what you describe.

Meanwhile, you have f**k all to say about Trump threatening and fomenting violence should the legal authorities have the temerity to hold him to account, and nothing to say about him posting a photo of him literally taking a baseball bat to the head of the Manhattan DA like Robert DeNiro in The Untouchables.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:54:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2023, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
Yes whitey, and a school principal got the sack in Florida because of Michaelangelo's David. A professor, also in Florida, got the sack because one parent objected to a racial justice lesson he taught that had been part of his course for 12 years.

There's idiots all around.

Do YOU think Trump should not be held accountable? Is he above the law that the rest of us are subject to? Has he no case to answer for January 6th? For his shenanigans in GA in the 2020 election?

Cohen got severely punished for his role in the payoffs to the porn star and the other woman. Should there be no accountability whatsoever for the man whose bidding he was doing and who tried to fraudulently hide the repayments?

Yes-Trump should be convicted and GA is the strongest case

BUT.....according to what I've read and heard.....it's a weak case in NY

If Bragg fails to get a conviction, it is really good for Trump

Maybe, and I do share those fears at this point, but I also think that it is a good thing that he is not above the law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on March 31, 2023, 05:05:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:54:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2023, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
Yes whitey, and a school principal got the sack in Florida because of Michaelangelo's David. A professor, also in Florida, got the sack because one parent objected to a racial justice lesson he taught that had been part of his course for 12 years.

There's idiots all around.

Do YOU think Trump should not be held accountable? Is he above the law that the rest of us are subject to? Has he no case to answer for January 6th? For his shenanigans in GA in the 2020 election?

Cohen got severely punished for his role in the payoffs to the porn star and the other woman. Should there be no accountability whatsoever for the man whose bidding he was doing and who tried to fraudulently hide the repayments?

Yes-Trump should be convicted and GA is the strongest case

BUT.....according to what I've read and heard.....it's a weak case in NY

If Bragg fails to get a conviction, it is really good for Trump

Maybe, and I do share those fears at this point, but I also think that it is a good thing that he is not above the law.

There are plenty of people who should not be above the law , but seemingly are

Maybe Trump will be fined $100K like Hillary for a campaign finance violation

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/03/30/dnc-clinton-campaign-fine-dossier-spending-disclosure-00021910
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 05:09:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2023, 05:05:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:54:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2023, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
Yes whitey, and a school principal got the sack in Florida because of Michaelangelo's David. A professor, also in Florida, got the sack because one parent objected to a racial justice lesson he taught that had been part of his course for 12 years.

There's idiots all around.

Do YOU think Trump should not be held accountable? Is he above the law that the rest of us are subject to? Has he no case to answer for January 6th? For his shenanigans in GA in the 2020 election?

Cohen got severely punished for his role in the payoffs to the porn star and the other woman. Should there be no accountability whatsoever for the man whose bidding he was doing and who tried to fraudulently hide the repayments?

Yes-Trump should be convicted and GA is the strongest case

BUT.....according to what I've read and heard.....it's a weak case in NY

If Bragg fails to get a conviction, it is really good for Trump

Maybe, and I do share those fears at this point, but I also think that it is a good thing that he is not above the law.

There are plenty of people who should not be above the law , but seemingly are

Maybe Trump will be fined $100K like Hillary for a campaign finance violation

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/03/30/dnc-clinton-campaign-fine-dossier-spending-disclosure-00021910

If its the same thing, then of course the punishment should be the same.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 05:27:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 05:09:43 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2023, 05:05:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:54:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 31, 2023, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 31, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
Yes whitey, and a school principal got the sack in Florida because of Michaelangelo's David. A professor, also in Florida, got the sack because one parent objected to a racial justice lesson he taught that had been part of his course for 12 years.

There's idiots all around.

Do YOU think Trump should not be held accountable? Is he above the law that the rest of us are subject to? Has he no case to answer for January 6th? For his shenanigans in GA in the 2020 election?

Cohen got severely punished for his role in the payoffs to the porn star and the other woman. Should there be no accountability whatsoever for the man whose bidding he was doing and who tried to fraudulently hide the repayments?

Yes-Trump should be convicted and GA is the strongest case

BUT.....according to what I've read and heard.....it's a weak case in NY

If Bragg fails to get a conviction, it is really good for Trump

Maybe, and I do share those fears at this point, but I also think that it is a good thing that he is not above the law.

There are plenty of people who should not be above the law , but seemingly are

Maybe Trump will be fined $100K like Hillary for a campaign finance violation

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/03/30/dnc-clinton-campaign-fine-dossier-spending-disclosure-00021910

If its the same thing, then of course the punishment should be the same.
this is news to j70 , Hillary actually paid for the fake Steele dossier ffs
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: nrico2006 on March 31, 2023, 06:39:51 PM
What did Trump do wrong regarding the porn star? Give her bucks to keep her quiet? Is that a crime?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 31, 2023, 06:54:59 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 31, 2023, 06:39:51 PM
What did Trump do wrong regarding the porn star? Give her bucks to keep her quiet? Is that a crime?

No. Falsifying business records to hide campaign finance violations is.

His right hand man and fixer already served time for this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 10:58:44 PM
NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 12:11:35 AM
Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 01, 2023, 02:44:59 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 12:11:35 AM
Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.

April 1st joke or lack of research from this newbie?  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-syria-death-toll-campaign-military-operations-barack-obama-administration-a7844526.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 04:56:23 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 01, 2023, 02:44:59 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 12:11:35 AM
Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.

April 1st joke or lack of research from this newbie?  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-syria-death-toll-campaign-military-operations-barack-obama-administration-a7844526.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
obama to blame for current situation in Ukraine, Libya and Egypt
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 01, 2023, 07:18:55 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 04:56:23 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 01, 2023, 02:44:59 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 12:11:35 AM
Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.

April 1st joke or lack of research from this newbie?  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-syria-death-toll-campaign-military-operations-barack-obama-administration-a7844526.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
obama to blame for current situation in Ukraine, Libya and Egypt

And he gets a Nobel Peace Prize. Some people just refuse to see it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2023, 08:14:56 AM
Surely Trump would sue the shit out of that paper for a false story?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Louther on April 01, 2023, 09:42:01 AM
Can any of the Trump defenders/Republicans/US residents on here, tell what the story is with the strong religious beliefs that the likes of Trump, MTG, etc play on and whose supporters seem to quote at every given chance. "God bless America" "Jesus will judge" everything seems to boil back to God, abortion one of the big themes cause it's against gods word.

Yet they all have very questionable morals - adulterous, suspect financial dealings, guns, intolerance etc. Very little if it seems very religious to me, little forgiveness and lots of hate.

Is the religious side just a comfortable flag to wear? Obviously it is for the like do Trump and MTG as it's a vote getter but for the actually voters, do they buy all that shit and see themselves as Gods children?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 10:58:44 PM
NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:10:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 01, 2023, 07:18:55 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 04:56:23 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 01, 2023, 02:44:59 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 12:11:35 AM
Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.

April 1st joke or lack of research from this newbie?  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-syria-death-toll-campaign-military-operations-barack-obama-administration-a7844526.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
obama to blame for current situation in Ukraine, Libya and Egypt

And he gets a Nobel Peace Prize. Some people just refuse to see it.

Refuse to see what?

Even Obama was embarrassed by the peace prize, as he got it basically for his winning, if unprecedented, presidential campaign, not anything he had done that early in his term.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:11:16 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 12:11:35 AM
Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.

Whose sock puppet is this?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on April 01, 2023, 12:50:55 PM
I think in the long run Obama will be remembered as a poor president, i.e. in the worst half if you were to rank them. Probably end up in the Carter/ Truman/ Hoover ranks. That's not to say he is a bad person, just a bad president. Carter was/is a wonderful person but he was a terribly ineffectual president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2023, 01:20:28 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 01, 2023, 09:42:01 AM
Can any of the Trump defenders/Republicans/US residents on here, tell what the story is with the strong religious beliefs that the likes of Trump, MTG, etc play on and whose supporters seem to quote at every given chance. "God bless America" "Jesus will judge" everything seems to boil back to God, abortion one of the big themes cause it's against gods word.

Yet they all have very questionable morals - adulterous, suspect financial dealings, guns, intolerance etc. Very little if it seems very religious to me, little forgiveness and lots of hate.

Is the religious side just a comfortable flag to wear? Obviously it is for the like do Trump and MTG as it's a vote getter but for the actually voters, do they buy all that shit and see themselves as Gods children?

Having lived here for 30 + years, Ill give it a shot

Its a lot like Ireland up until the 90s where Nationalism and Catholicism were intertwined. You cant be a good Irishman unless a good Catholic.

The outward expression of your faith was all that mattered, but how you treated other people and conducted yourself in private was of secondary importance

Religion and adherence to church teachings were the foundations upon which the nation was built

Its the type of mentality where you could make an annual pilgrimage to Lough Dergh, but say or do nothing if you knew what was going on in a Magdalene Asylum or Mother and Baby Home

It is really a control mechanism

One difference is that these Protestant Denominations do not have a hierarchy....so theres no priest or bishop to be afraid of.  You dont have to go to confession weekly or monthly, so whatever sins you commit  are between you and God

No one is beyond redemption. Everyone can repent and be saved
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2023, 02:25:52 PM
It's a bit like the running joke up here... "are you catholic or Protestant" ... "I'm an atheist "... "are you a Protestant atheist or a catholic atheist ". 

It's a joke but quite close to reality... those labels matter to people. In the bigger world it's Christianity vs pick another religion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2023, 02:54:58 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 01, 2023, 12:50:55 PM
I think in the long run Obama will be remembered as a poor president, i.e. in the worst half if you were to rank them. Probably end up in the Carter/ Truman/ Hoover ranks. That's not to say he is a bad person, just a bad president. Carter was/is a wonderful person but he was a terribly ineffectual president.

I don't think he was bad. Middle of the pack I'd think. He inherited a historically monstrous financial mess. As always, subsequent decades mould thinking as the implications of policies and events from an administration can be better appreciated.

Truman is generally considered a top ten president BTW. Which is amazing considering he went from relative obscurity to leading the Allies to victory in WW2 in no time. International views of Truman will always be tainted by the atomic bombings, but that hasn't really been a controversial subject within the US.

Hoover and Carter well down almost all lists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 01, 2023, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 02:54:58 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 01, 2023, 12:50:55 PM
I think in the long run Obama will be remembered as a poor president, i.e. in the worst half if you were to rank them. Probably end up in the Carter/ Truman/ Hoover ranks. That's not to say he is a bad person, just a bad president. Carter was/is a wonderful person but he was a terribly ineffectual president.

I don't think he was bad. Middle of the pack I'd think. He inherited a historically monstrous financial mess. As always, subsequent decades mould thinking as the implications of policies and events from an administration can be better appreciated.

Truman is generally considered a top ten president BTW. Which is amazing considering he went from relative obscurity to leading the Allies to victory in WW2 in no time. International views of Truman will always be tainted by the atomic bombings, but that hasn't really been a controversial subject within the US.

Hoover and Carter well down almost all lists.

In my lifetime I would have to say

Clinton
Regan
Obama
Trump
Carter
George W Bush

(George H was really an extension of Regan so I don't even rank him)

(Jury is out on Joe. Personally I like him, but he's not calling the shots)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2023, 04:18:32 PM
I'd be similar, although I'd probably put Reagan at the top for overall impact, even if I disagreed with a lot of what he believed in. What I'd give for GOP along his lines today! Don't think any of them would push into historical top ten, except maybe Reagan.

Reagan - disagreed with much of his agenda, but its hard to argue he against his Soviet policy, even if the singular credit he gets from the right is way overblown,
Clinton - probably aligns most with my personal leanings. Centrist. And played a blinder on the north. Sc**bag personally.
Obama - inherited a disaster. Did a decent enough job overall in the face of irrational opposition.
Bush 1 - Reagan's third term. Did sign important environmental legislation into law.
Carter - uninspiring, not up to the challenges he faced on a host of issues.
Bush 2 - disastrous foreign policy in response to 9/11. Blew a big chance to lead with Katrina. Don't blame him for the financial collapse - way bigger than his administration.
Trump -  one of the most damaging presidencies in history, even if the road had been ploughed for him by the GOP for decades. Bottom five historically.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 10:58:44 PM
NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.
a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2023, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 10:58:44 PM
NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.
a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 10:58:44 PM
NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.
a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?
think about what you are ok with , the federal government prosecuting a man for memes about texting to vote also think about this guy probably with little or no resources up against the feds , that's what liberals want ? that's what you want in every state or just certain people with certain viewpoints  ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 04:18:32 PM
I'd be similar, although I'd probably put Reagan at the top for overall impact, even if I disagreed with a lot of what he believed in. What I'd give for GOP along his lines today! Don't think any of them would push into historical top ten, except maybe Reagan.

Reagan - disagreed with much of his agenda, but its hard to argue he against his Soviet policy, even if the singular credit he gets from the right is way overblown,
Clinton - probably aligns most with my personal leanings. Centrist. And played a blinder on the north. Sc**bag personally.
Obama - inherited a disaster. Did a decent enough job overall in the face of irrational opposition.
Bush 1 - Reagan's third term. Did sign important environmental legislation into law.
Carter - uninspiring, not up to the challenges he faced on a host of issues.
Bush 2 - disastrous foreign policy in response to 9/11. Blew a big chance to lead with Katrina. Don't blame him for the financial collapse - way bigger than his administration.
Trump -  one of the most damaging presidencies in history, even if the road had been ploughed for him by the GOP for decades. Bottom five historically.

Carter- Weak,
Reagan- Strong, lifted America out of the doom & gloom of the previous 20years of Vietnam,Watergate & Carters weakness. Faced up to Russia.
Bush 1- Awful on the economy, head of a cartel that made money on wars.
Clinton- Able politician, got lucky with the timing of the Dot Com Era, able deal maker, tough on crime. Then screwed up the Economy till this day by his signing away the Glas-Steagal Act.
Bush 2- Scumg. Stupid . hand picked by his fathers cartel for President while it was Cheney who ran the show. Made money on 9-11, Wars.
Obama- Not Bush 2.  Bailed out banks and rich people while the ordinary american people were thrown out of their homes and bought up by corporate cartels to drive rents up to the max. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yeman, Ukraine, that caused the flooding of Europe with refugee's.
Trump- Booming Economy by signing the Jobs Act in 2017, tough on illegal immigration, did away with the federal tax mandate from the ObamaCare scam. Kept inflation in check, started no wars, tough on China & Russia. Was right about Fauci's handling of Covid 19 and the political ploys behind it.
Biden- A handpicked vegetable by Silicon Valley. Weak. Exit from Alfghanistan badly done, weak with Putin, Inflation through the roof, weak with Ukraine. Not mentally fit to string a coherant sentence together. Has dirty hands in the Ukraine. more to come
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:11:16 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 12:11:35 AM
Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.

Whose sock puppet is this?


Bit otp...it's just a dicussion on a topic at the end of the day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2023, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 10:58:44 PM
NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.
a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?
think about what you are ok with , the federal government prosecuting a man for memes about texting to vote also think about this guy probably with little or no resources up against the feds , that's what liberals want ? that's what you want in every state or just certain people with certain viewpoints  ?

Why don't you be honest for once in your life?

He was spreading false information to mislead people into thinking they'd cast valid votes when they hadn't i.e. he was trying to suppress the vote of political opponents. Nothing to do with political leaning per se.

Do you think that's ok?

Are you ok with historical efforts like posting notices in black neighborhoods telling people poll locations or dates had changed?

You think that should be allowed?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 07:24:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 10:58:44 PM
NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.
a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?
think about what you are ok with , the federal government prosecuting a man for memes about texting to vote also think about this guy probably with little or no resources up against the feds , that's what liberals want ? that's what you want in every state or just certain people with certain viewpoints  ?

Why don't you be honest for once in your life?

He was spreading false information to mislead people into thinking they'd cast valid votes when they hadn't i.e. he was trying to suppress the vote of political opponents. Nothing to do with political leaning per se.

Do you think that's ok?

Are you ok with historical efforts like posting notices in black neighborhoods telling people poll locations or dates had changed?

You think that should be allowed?
suppress the vote ? If your dumb enough to fall for that then voting is the least of your worries
You hate any conservative and want them silenced as indicated by the way you attacked a new poster earlier
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2023, 07:35:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 07:24:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 01, 2023, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 31, 2023, 10:58:44 PM
NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.
a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?
think about what you are ok with , the federal government prosecuting a man for memes about texting to vote also think about this guy probably with little or no resources up against the feds , that's what liberals want ? that's what you want in every state or just certain people with certain viewpoints  ?

Why don't you be honest for once in your life?

He was spreading false information to mislead people into thinking they'd cast valid votes when they hadn't i.e. he was trying to suppress the vote of political opponents. Nothing to do with political leaning per se.

Do you think that's ok?

Are you ok with historical efforts like posting notices in black neighborhoods telling people poll locations or dates had changed?

You think that should be allowed?
suppress the vote ? If your dumb enough to fall for that then voting is the least of your worries
You hate any conservative and want them silenced as indicated by the way you attacked a new poster earlier

So you are ok with the practice then. Yet you'd be on here frothing at the mouth if it was some Dems targeting old white people down in Florida.

Spare me the lecture about "hate".

You're the one who digs up this thread every week to post the latest, irrational, half baked ravings you hear on the internet or talk radio and just brazenly ignores when someone points out that it's bleeding obvious nonsense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2023, 07:38:35 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 12:11:16 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 12:11:35 AM
Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.

Whose sock puppet is this?


Bit otp...it's just a dicussion on a topic at the end of the day.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 12:11:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 04:18:32 PM
I'd be similar, although I'd probably put Reagan at the top for overall impact, even if I disagreed with a lot of what he believed in. What I'd give for GOP along his lines today! Don't think any of them would push into historical top ten, except maybe Reagan.

Reagan - disagreed with much of his agenda, but its hard to argue he against his Soviet policy, even if the singular credit he gets from the right is way overblown,
Clinton - probably aligns most with my personal leanings. Centrist. And played a blinder on the north. Sc**bag personally.
Obama - inherited a disaster. Did a decent enough job overall in the face of irrational opposition.
Bush 1 - Reagan's third term. Did sign important environmental legislation into law.
Carter - uninspiring, not up to the challenges he faced on a host of issues.
Bush 2 - disastrous foreign policy in response to 9/11. Blew a big chance to lead with Katrina. Don't blame him for the financial collapse - way bigger than his administration.
Trump -  one of the most damaging presidencies in history, even if the road had been ploughed for him by the GOP for decades. Bottom five historically.

Without doubt. Donald Trump's legacy of profound corruption and egregious conflicts of interest, the repercussions of which will echo for years after he is gone.

Historians recently ranked every president. Trump was ranked lower than William Henry Harrison, who was only president for 31 days, and John Tyler, the only former president buried in a coffin draped with the Confederate flag. Only Franklin Pierce, Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan was ranked lower.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 12:41:20 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 12:11:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 01, 2023, 04:18:32 PM
I'd be similar, although I'd probably put Reagan at the top for overall impact, even if I disagreed with a lot of what he believed in. What I'd give for GOP along his lines today! Don't think any of them would push into historical top ten, except maybe Reagan.

Reagan - disagreed with much of his agenda, but its hard to argue he against his Soviet policy, even if the singular credit he gets from the right is way overblown,
Clinton - probably aligns most with my personal leanings. Centrist. And played a blinder on the north. Sc**bag personally.
Obama - inherited a disaster. Did a decent enough job overall in the face of irrational opposition.
Bush 1 - Reagan's third term. Did sign important environmental legislation into law.
Carter - uninspiring, not up to the challenges he faced on a host of issues.
Bush 2 - disastrous foreign policy in response to 9/11. Blew a big chance to lead with Katrina. Don't blame him for the financial collapse - way bigger than his administration.
Trump -  one of the most damaging presidencies in history, even if the road had been ploughed for him by the GOP for decades. Bottom five historically.

Without doubt. Donald Trump's legacy of profound corruption and egregious conflicts of interest, the repercussions of which will echo for years after he is gone.

Historians recently ranked every president. Trump was ranked lower than William Henry Harrison, who was only president for 31 days, and John Tyler, the only former president buried in a coffin draped with the Confederate flag. Only Franklin Pierce, Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan was ranked lower.

Lower than G W Bush???
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 02, 2023, 01:17:07 AM
I'm with you on that last point, Pishkin.  GWB was the worst president in my lifetime.  Started two unnecessary wars that the world is still paying for, and presided over the economic crash.

Say what you want about DT, he wasn't worse than that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: mrdeeds on April 02, 2023, 01:17:28 AM
Carter weak, uninspiring etc said above. Was he not too honest, too nice? Look what he's done in recent years in comparison to every ex president. Wouldn't negotiate with Iran etc.. secretly and called weak. A super human.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 02, 2023, 01:22:17 AM
There's a lot come out recently about Republican attempts to keep the Iranians from releasing the hostages, until after the election.  Personally don't think he was as bad as he's made out to be (though I wasn't old enough to experience it IRL).

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/expert-analyzes-new-account-of-gop-deal-that-used-iran-hostage-crisis-for-gain (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/expert-analyzes-new-account-of-gop-deal-that-used-iran-hostage-crisis-for-gain)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 02:03:54 AM
G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2023, 03:11:48 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 02:03:54 AM
G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall
yes we should believe what c span tells us
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 03:49:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2023, 03:11:48 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 02:03:54 AM
G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall
yes we should believe what c span tells us

It's a ranking list done by presidential historians. No offence but I think I'll pay more heed to that group of well educated and tuned people than some minority opinions on here.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2023, 04:30:25 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 03:49:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2023, 03:11:48 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 02:03:54 AM
G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall
yes we should believe what c span tells us

It's a ranking list done by presidential historians. No offence but I think I'll pay more heed to that group of well educated and tuned people than some minority opinions on here.
go ahead still doesn't make it facts
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2023, 01:46:12 PM
Nothing stopping you presenting fact-based, thought-through, views Gmac, if you have them...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: lenny on April 02, 2023, 02:18:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2023, 01:46:12 PM
Nothing stopping you presenting fact-based, thought-through, views Gmac, if you have them...

He's got plenty of alternative facts.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2023, 04:28:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2023, 01:46:12 PM
Nothing stopping you presenting fact-based, thought-through, views Gmac, if you have them...
can't wait to see where these experts put ol Scranton joe
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on April 02, 2023, 05:21:02 PM
What would make you listen to it though? If it fitted your opinion?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 05:44:45 PM
Carter brought politics into sport by boycotting the Moscow Olympics in 1980, imagine how the american athletes felt after years of training for, of course the russians then boycotted the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. Kennedy & G W Bush started wars that we are still paying for today yet Trump had a booming economy, kept inflation in check and started no wars and he is ranked lower that those?  Beyond laughable.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2023, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 02, 2023, 05:21:02 PM
What would make you listen to it though? If it fitted your opinion?
do you like to reference Wikipedia for political statistics too ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 02, 2023, 07:39:31 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 05:44:45 PM
Carter brought politics into sport by boycotting the Moscow Olympics in 1980, imagine how the american athletes felt after years of training for, of course the russians then boycotted the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. Kennedy & G W Bush started wars that we are still paying for today yet Trump had a booming economy, kept inflation in check and started no wars and he is ranked lower that those?  Beyond laughable.
He also cut environmental policies, rubbished global warming, withdrew from climate treaties, got impeached twice, strengthened links with Israel, was the most embarrassing presidential loser by a long shot and nearly built a wall.

But to be fair he did make over 25k tweets, although he got banned in the process for risk of incitement of violence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2023, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 05:44:45 PM
Carter brought politics into sport by boycotting the Moscow Olympics in 1980, imagine how the american athletes felt after years of training for, of course the russians then boycotted the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. Kennedy & G W Bush started wars that we are still paying for today yet Trump had a booming economy, kept inflation in check and started no wars and he is ranked lower that those?  Beyond laughable.

Trump's economy was a continuation of the post-2008 trend. If you can point to some inflection point, go ahead. Inflation would have gone through the roof as supply chains struggled to recover post-Covid no matter who was president, just like it did everywhere else. You can argue degree, but high inflation was inevitable under the circumstances.

And say what you want about the rest of them, but they didn't try (and aren't still trying) to undermine and subvert democracy itself all because they didn't want to be seen as a"loser " (his words), and also wanted to try to protect themselves from being held accountable. For that alone, Trump is a stain on US history. Well not get into the bigotry and lost stolen children. Or impeachments.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2023, 08:05:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2023, 04:28:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2023, 01:46:12 PM
Nothing stopping you presenting fact-based, thought-through, views Gmac, if you have them...
can't wait to see where these experts put ol Scranton joe

So nothing to offer then.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 02, 2023, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 05:44:45 PM
Carter brought politics into sport by boycotting the Moscow Olympics in 1980, imagine how the american athletes felt after years of training for, of course the russians then boycotted the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. Kennedy & G W Bush started wars that we are still paying for today yet Trump had a booming economy, kept inflation in check and started no wars and he is ranked lower that those?  Beyond laughable.

Trump's economy was a continuation of the post-2008 trend. If you can point to some inflection point, go ahead. Inflation would have gone through the roof as supply chains struggled to recover post-Covid no matter who was president, just like it did everywhere else. You can argue degree, but high inflation was inevitable under the circumstances.

And say what you want about the rest of them, but they didn't try (and aren't still trying) to undermine and subvert democracy itself all because they didn't want to be seen as a"loser " (his words), and also wanted to try to protect themselves from being held accountable. For that alone, Trump is a stain on US history. Well not get into the bigotry and lost stolen children. Or impeachments.

As I said during his "time" in office he kept inflation in check. He signed in the Jobs Act in early 2017 and the economy was boosted to high levels. As to his character I said it wasn't my cup of coffee, yes he was petulent and a sore loser and no doubt corrupt & underhanded, what politician isn't?  I don't deny his bad points but no one can deny that we had peace & prosperity during his time much like another questionable character Clinton.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 10:05:31 PM
Nixon, Kennedy, Trump, G W Bush and others have tampered with democracy to get or keep themselves in power.  There is I think no politician worldwide and in history who has been ethical in terms of attaining & retaining power.  I guess all we can hope for is scraps from the table at times.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2023, 10:51:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 02:03:54 AM
G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 03, 2023, 03:34:36 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2023, 10:51:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 02:03:54 AM
G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.
Recover from what exactly? mean tweets?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 03, 2023, 05:14:11 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 03, 2023, 03:34:36 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2023, 10:51:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 02:03:54 AM
G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.
Recover from what exactly? mean tweets?

Scrapping the Iran nuclear deal and putting them back on a path to a nuclear weapon. Undermining the USA's credibility in all future international negotiations because nobody can trust them to adhere to any deal they make. Starting an unprovoked trade war with China.  Dismantling The Global Health Security and Biodefense unit in the National Security Council in 2018; it had been working on preparations for a possible future pandemic. Stoking the fires of hatred and far-right terrorism that have been difficult to put out ever since. Stacking the stolen seats in the Supreme Court with far-right extremists.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 03, 2023, 05:14:53 AM
That's the second time today I've seen a conservative claim that "mean tweets" was the only thing Trump did. Is that the Fox News talking point of the day?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 03, 2023, 01:28:59 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 10:05:31 PM
Nixon, Kennedy, Trump, G W Bush and others have tampered with democracy to get or keep themselves in power.  There is I think no politician worldwide and in history who has been ethical in terms of attaining & retaining power.  I guess all we can hope for is scraps from the table at times.

You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.

You can very fairly and severely criticize America's role as "world policeman" for all these decades and how various presidents have used that power, for better or worse, to support armed conflicts,  undermine and overthrow foreign governments, and to directly intervene militarily. There is certainly plenty of appalling conduct there to choose from. Leaving aside things like Trump's changes to the transparency of stuff like drone bombings, his refusal to allow the US to cease supporting Saudi actions in Yemen, his 2011 calls for direct US military intervention in Libya and his initial support for the Iraq war, I have little doubt that Trump would have started a war if he felt it suited him. The man has little in the way of core principals beyond his own wealth and aggrandizement, and is certainly not concerned with the humanity of those that suffer due to geopolitics. If the GOP base was as blindly and aggressively supportive of war mongering as they were 20 years ago, Trump would be too, as that is what he would need to secure their support.

And no doubt there have been election shenanigans all throughout US history at all levels of government, but has there ever been a candidate who so loudly and falsely and baselessly tried to sew mayhem and doubt among the electorate to steal a presidential election, culminating in a violent and deadly coup attempt; a trail of candidates across the country who refused in advance to accept that they could lose; a ton of candidates and legislation who were openly trying to put mechanisms in place so that their states could overturn the vote of the people in the next presidential election; and a refusal to accept that Biden was a legitimately president being a litmus test for candidacy (this was even in the Texas state GOP election platform!)?

How can you be considered even a mediocre president when you don't even want to abide by the basic rules and norms to get elected and, while in office, you refuse to go quietly once the people have spoken? Trump wishes he could rule as a strongman, like his hero Putin or even "friends" like Kim Jung Un. He and his acolytes think it's "heads I win, tails you cheated" and that democratic principles shouldn't apply to them. Has there ever been another president who conducted themselves in that manor?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 03, 2023, 05:35:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 03, 2023, 05:14:11 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 03, 2023, 03:34:36 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2023, 10:51:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 02:03:54 AM
G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.
Recover from what exactly? mean tweets?

Scrapping the Iran nuclear deal and putting them back on a path to a nuclear weapon. Undermining the USA's credibility in all future international negotiations because nobody can trust them to adhere to any deal they make. Starting an unprovoked trade war with China.  Dismantling The Global Health Security and Biodefense unit in the National Security Council in 2018; it had been working on preparations for a possible future pandemic. Stoking the fires of hatred and far-right terrorism that have been difficult to put out ever since. Stacking the stolen seats in the Supreme Court with far-right extremists.

Yes just a small sample there.  The number of white nationalist and other hate groups has surged and is worldwide issue now thanks to Trump's time in office. What we have now is the stage of recovery and I feel sorry for Joe Biden as his four years will be mostly used on cleaning up the mess left behind by a buffoon voted in by a high number of nut jobs.

Quote from: J70 on April 03, 2023, 01:28:59 PM
You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.
Like Trump himself his supporters eventually get caught out on their lies.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 03, 2023, 09:19:14 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 03, 2023, 05:35:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 03, 2023, 05:14:11 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 03, 2023, 03:34:36 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2023, 10:51:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 02, 2023, 02:03:54 AM
G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.
Recover from what exactly? mean tweets?

Scrapping the Iran nuclear deal and putting them back on a path to a nuclear weapon. Undermining the USA's credibility in all future international negotiations because nobody can trust them to adhere to any deal they make. Starting an unprovoked trade war with China.  Dismantling The Global Health Security and Biodefense unit in the National Security Council in 2018; it had been working on preparations for a possible future pandemic. Stoking the fires of hatred and far-right terrorism that have been difficult to put out ever since. Stacking the stolen seats in the Supreme Court with far-right extremists.

Yes just a small sample there.  The number of white nationalist and other hate groups has surged and is worldwide issue now thanks to Trump's time in office. What we have now is the stage of recovery and I feel sorry for Joe Biden as his four years will be mostly used on cleaning up the mess left behind by a buffoon voted in by a high number of nut jobs.

Quote from: J70 on April 03, 2023, 01:28:59 PM
You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.
Like Trump himself his supporters eventually get caught out on their lies.
big msnbc guy right here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 03, 2023, 09:50:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 03, 2023, 09:19:14 PM
big msnbc guy right here
Going by your posts on this thread an educated guess would say you are glued to OAN, Newsmax, Fox News and treat them as gospel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 03, 2023, 10:14:57 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 03, 2023, 09:50:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 03, 2023, 09:19:14 PM
big msnbc guy right here
Going by your posts on this thread an educated guess would say you are glued to OAN, Newsmax, Fox News and treat them as gospel.
I think my crybaby provider probably doesn't carry them except fox so no and do you believe the gospel?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 03, 2023, 10:40:55 PM
So the Biden admin is behind the Trump indictment
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 04, 2023, 12:12:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 03, 2023, 10:14:57 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 03, 2023, 09:50:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 03, 2023, 09:19:14 PM
big msnbc guy right here
Going by your posts on this thread an educated guess would say you are glued to OAN, Newsmax, Fox News and treat them as gospel.
I think my crybaby provider probably doesn't carry them except fox so no and do you believe the gospel?
Gospel is filled with God this and that and I don't tend to believe in something or someone I can't see.  Is Trump is God's hands right now, will he be praying forgiveness?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:16:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 03, 2023, 01:28:59 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 10:05:31 PM
Nixon, Kennedy, Trump, G W Bush and others have tampered with democracy to get or keep themselves in power.  There is I think no politician worldwide and in history who has been ethical in terms of attaining & retaining power.  I guess all we can hope for is scraps from the table at times.

You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.

You can very fairly and severely criticize America's role as "world policeman" for all these decades and how various presidents have used that power, for better or worse, to support armed conflicts,  undermine and overthrow foreign governments, and to directly intervene militarily. There is certainly plenty of appalling conduct there to choose from. Leaving aside things like Trump's changes to the transparency of stuff like drone bombings, his refusal to allow the US to cease supporting Saudi actions in Yemen, his 2011 calls for direct US military intervention in Libya and his initial support for the Iraq war, I have little doubt that Trump would have started a war if he felt it suited him. The man has little in the way of core principals beyond his own wealth and aggrandizement, and is certainly not concerned with the humanity of those that suffer due to geopolitics. If the GOP base was as blindly and aggressively supportive of war mongering as they were 20 years ago, Trump would be too, as that is what he would need to secure their support.

And no doubt there have been election shenanigans all throughout US history at all levels of government, but has there ever been a candidate who so loudly and falsely and baselessly tried to sew mayhem and doubt among the electorate to steal a presidential election, culminating in a violent and deadly coup attempt; a trail of candidates across the country who refused in advance to accept that they could lose; a ton of candidates and legislation who were openly trying to put mechanisms in place so that their states could overturn the vote of the people in the next presidential election; and a refusal to accept that Biden was a legitimately president being a litmus test for candidacy (this was even in the Texas state GOP election platform!)?

How can you be considered even a mediocre president when you don't even want to abide by the basic rules and norms to get elected and, while in office, you refuse to go quietly once the people have spoken? Trump wishes he could rule as a strongman, like his hero Putin or even "friends" like Kim Jung Un. He and his acolytes think it's "heads I win, tails you cheated" and that democratic principles shouldn't apply to them. Has there ever been another president who conducted themselves in that manor?

Quote from: J70 on April 03, 2023, 01:28:59 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 02, 2023, 10:05:31 PM
Nixon, Kennedy, Trump, G W Bush and others have tampered with democracy to get or keep themselves in power.  There is I think no politician worldwide and in history who has been ethical in terms of attaining & retaining power.  I guess all we can hope for is scraps from the table at times.

You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.

You can very fairly and severely criticize America's role as "world policeman" for all these decades and how various presidents have used that power, for better or worse, to support armed conflicts,  undermine and overthrow foreign governments, and to directly intervene militarily. There is certainly plenty of appalling conduct there to choose from. Leaving aside things like Trump's changes to the transparency of stuff like drone bombings, his refusal to allow the US to cease supporting Saudi actions in Yemen, his 2011 calls for direct US military intervention in Libya and his initial support for the Iraq war, I have little doubt that Trump would have started a war if he felt it suited him. The man has little in the way of core principals beyond his own wealth and aggrandizement, and is certainly not concerned with the humanity of those that suffer due to geopolitics. If the GOP base was as blindly and aggressively supportive of war mongering as they were 20 years ago, Trump would be too, as that is what he would need to secure their support.

And no doubt there have been election shenanigans all throughout US history at all levels of government, but has there ever been a candidate who so loudly and falsely and baselessly tried to sew mayhem and doubt among the electorate to steal a presidential election, culminating in a violent and deadly coup attempt; a trail of candidates across the country who refused in advance to accept that they could lose; a ton of candidates and legislation who were openly trying to put mechanisms in place so that their states could overturn the vote of the people in the next presidential election; and a refusal to accept that Biden was a legitimately president being a litmus test for candidacy (this was even in the Texas state GOP election platform!)?

How can you be considered even a mediocre president when you don't even want to abide by the basic rules and norms to get elected and, while in office, you refuse to go quietly once the people have spoken? Trump wishes he could rule as a strongman, like his hero Putin or even "friends" like Kim Jung Un. He and his acolytes think it's "heads I win, tails you cheated" and that democratic principles shouldn't apply to them. Has there ever been another president who conducted themselves in that manor?


Again I have pointed out what faults Trump had, and every President regardless of Party. In my time I have voted for Presidents who were either democrat or republican. Both party's suck tbh in a system that is overrun with lobbyists. Pelosi & Newsom here in california voted down a Single-Payer Health Care last year, that is fucked up. Politics in America is a shitshow and has been for decades. I didn't like Clinton but I did well fiscally during his terms and Trump I did really well fiscally even though I didn't vote for him in 2016, neither did I vote for H Clinton as I didn't like both of them. As I say both Party's suck.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 04, 2023, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

And yet the Democrats can't  help themselves

Instead of just letting him and the other extreme Republicans self implode, they just keep providing their supporters (and middle of the road conservatives) with an alternative that's so insane and toxic, that they're keeping him in the game
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

And yet the Democrats can't  help themselves

Instead of just letting him and the other extreme Republicans self implode, they just keep providing their supporters (and middle of the road conservatives) with an alternative that's so insane and toxic, that they're keeping him in the game

There are certainly extremists on the Dem side, but where are they in the leadership or on policy, especially at national level? Or state level? Even NYC elected a centrist mayor last time out. Even SF got rid of their extremist DA.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 04, 2023, 03:25:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

And yet the Democrats can't  help themselves

Instead of just letting him and the other extreme Republicans self implode, they just keep providing their supporters (and middle of the road conservatives) with an alternative that's so insane and toxic, that they're keeping him in the game

There are certainly extremists on the Dem side, but where are they in the leadership or on policy, especially at national level? Or state level? Even NYC elected a centrist mayor last time out. Even SF got rid of their extremist DA.

They don't have to be in leadership

Leadership is terrified of them and cave at every turn to the crazies

Why the heck was Joe thinking doing an interview with Dylan Mulvaney?

https://unherd.com/thepost/why-is-joe-biden-taking-trans-advice-from-a-tiktok-star/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 03:52:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 03:25:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

And yet the Democrats can't  help themselves

Instead of just letting him and the other extreme Republicans self implode, they just keep providing their supporters (and middle of the road conservatives) with an alternative that's so insane and toxic, that they're keeping him in the game

There are certainly extremists on the Dem side, but where are they in the leadership or on policy, especially at national level? Or state level? Even NYC elected a centrist mayor last time out. Even SF got rid of their extremist DA.

They don't have to be in leadership

Leadership is terrified of them and cave at every turn to the crazies

Why the heck was Joe thinking doing an interview with Dylan Mulvaney?

https://unherd.com/thepost/why-is-joe-biden-taking-trans-advice-from-a-tiktok-star/

If leadership is so terrified of them, then how is that manifesting itself in policy and legislation?

Trust me, I get that the right can and will use any pronouncement from any Dem anywhere at any level to rile up and terrify their own voters that "they're coming to get you!".
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 04, 2023, 04:15:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 03:25:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

And yet the Democrats can't  help themselves

Instead of just letting him and the other extreme Republicans self implode, they just keep providing their supporters (and middle of the road conservatives) with an alternative that's so insane and toxic, that they're keeping him in the game

There are certainly extremists on the Dem side, but where are they in the leadership or on policy, especially at national level? Or state level? Even NYC elected a centrist mayor last time out. Even SF got rid of their extremist DA.

They don't have to be in leadership

Leadership is terrified of them and cave at every turn to the crazies

Why the heck was Joe thinking doing an interview with Dylan Mulvaney?

https://unherd.com/thepost/why-is-joe-biden-taking-trans-advice-from-a-tiktok-star/
he probably wanted to sniff her/him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 04, 2023, 04:30:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 03:52:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 03:25:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

And yet the Democrats can't  help themselves

Instead of just letting him and the other extreme Republicans self implode, they just keep providing their supporters (and middle of the road conservatives) with an alternative that's so insane and toxic, that they're keeping him in the game

There are certainly extremists on the Dem side, but where are they in the leadership or on policy, especially at national level? Or state level? Even NYC elected a centrist mayor last time out. Even SF got rid of their extremist DA.

They don't have to be in leadership

Leadership is terrified of them and cave at every turn to the crazies

Why the heck was Joe thinking doing an interview with Dylan Mulvaney?

https://unherd.com/thepost/why-is-joe-biden-taking-trans-advice-from-a-tiktok-star/

If leadership is so terrified of them, then how is that manifesting itself in policy and legislation?

Trust me, I get that the right can and will use any pronouncement from any Dem anywhere at any level to rile up and terrify their own voters that "they're coming to get you!".

Some parents have very legitimate concerns about what's happening in public schools right now, but some of the most senior Democrats have painted these people as extremists and book banners and flat earthers. They've even unleashed the FBI/DOJ on them.

They're terrified of offending the most extreme elements of their base






Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 05:23:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 04:30:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 03:52:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 03:25:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

And yet the Democrats can't  help themselves

Instead of just letting him and the other extreme Republicans self implode, they just keep providing their supporters (and middle of the road conservatives) with an alternative that's so insane and toxic, that they're keeping him in the game

There are certainly extremists on the Dem side, but where are they in the leadership or on policy, especially at national level? Or state level? Even NYC elected a centrist mayor last time out. Even SF got rid of their extremist DA.

They don't have to be in leadership

Leadership is terrified of them and cave at every turn to the crazies

Why the heck was Joe thinking doing an interview with Dylan Mulvaney?

https://unherd.com/thepost/why-is-joe-biden-taking-trans-advice-from-a-tiktok-star/

If leadership is so terrified of them, then how is that manifesting itself in policy and legislation?

Trust me, I get that the right can and will use any pronouncement from any Dem anywhere at any level to rile up and terrify their own voters that "they're coming to get you!".

Some parents have very legitimate concerns about what's happening in public schools right now, but some of the most senior Democrats have painted these people as extremists and book banners and flat earthers. They've even unleashed the FBI/DOJ on them.

They're terrified of offending the most extreme elements of their base

Example(s)?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 05:49:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 03, 2023, 10:40:55 PM
So the Biden admin is behind the Trump indictment

??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 04, 2023, 07:22:29 PM
This is how absolutely insane the world has become thank to the types of people J70 votes for

https://www.boston.com/news/schools/2023/04/04/easthampton-school-committee-rescind-superintendent-candidate-offer-ladies/

"Easthampton is rallying around a superintendent finalist who said his offer to lead the city's public schools was rescinded after he referred to women as "ladies" in an email — an act some school committee members reportedly viewed as a microaggression."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 04, 2023, 09:03:17 PM
If there's a bigger snowflake on this place - I've yet to see him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 04, 2023, 09:35:20 PM
CNN say the case is weak and that it would already be dismissed if it wasn't Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 04, 2023, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2023, 09:35:20 PM
CNN say the case is weak and that it would already be dismissed if it wasn't Trump.
better chance Bragg gets convicted of something than Trump
Democrats with another huge swing and miss . Anyone who voted for this douche bag DA deserves no protection from the law , they want political opponents locked up and real criminals walking free from felony charges.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 04, 2023, 10:35:01 PM
We, wait for the one for inciting a riot leading to the death of a few people, anybody else been long charged on this by now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 04, 2023, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 04, 2023, 10:35:01 PM
We, wait for the one for inciting a riot leading to the death of a few people, anybody else been long charged on this by now
innocent people are being released from jail after the regime locked them up on false charges that's the update there
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on April 04, 2023, 11:19:15 PM
Trump gets underwhelming show of support on surreal day in New York

Hundreds of pro- and anti-Trump protesters had gathered outside the Manhattan criminal court

the center-piece of the protest – an appearance by Marjorie Taylor Greene, the QAnon-dabbling, hard-right Republican conspiracy theorist – had descended into farce almost immediately.
Greene, escorted by security, was armed with a megaphone, but could be barely be heard above the sound of whistling and shouting

a Trump supporter, was waving a large flag that said: "Trump or death."
"It's not my death," he said. "It might be your death, it might be democracy's death, but it's not my death."

As Trump was in court, pleading not guilty to the charges, his supporters had started to drift away from their protest area. The more buttoned-down supporters – the types who will wear a hat but can't be bothered carrying a flag, seemed to leave first, leaving behind an assortment of kooks and weirdos who contributed to a slightly surreal atmosphere.

One woman kept saying the United Nations building, about three miles to the north, was the "Synagogue of Satan". A man tried, in vain, to get a rather convoluted chant about gender pronouns going.

There was a guy in a banana suit, and another in a witch's hat, and the Naked Cowboy, a well-known New York City fixture who plays the guitar to tourists in Times Square while wearing underpants, also showed up. He sang a song in support of Trump, which had lyrics about building a wall.

It wasn't exactly the scene Trump had promised. The former president had said "death and destruction" would follow his arrest, not tropical fruit and Y-fronts.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/04/trump-protests-reaction-new-york-court (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/04/trump-protests-reaction-new-york-court)

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 11:21:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 04, 2023, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 04, 2023, 10:35:01 PM
We, wait for the one for inciting a riot leading to the death of a few people, anybody else been long charged on this by now
innocent people are being released from jail after the regime locked them up on false charges that's the update there

Example?

Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 11:23:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 04, 2023, 07:22:29 PM
This is how absolutely insane the world has become thank to the types of people J70 votes for

https://www.boston.com/news/schools/2023/04/04/easthampton-school-committee-rescind-superintendent-candidate-offer-ladies/

"Easthampton is rallying around a superintendent finalist who said his offer to lead the city's public schools was rescinded after he referred to women as "ladies" in an email — an act some school committee members reportedly viewed as a microaggression."

Yeah, that school board's policies are on the Democratic presidential platform. ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 11:28:38 PM
Rally organized on Long Island today. Hoping for 200 to convoy into the city along the Long Island Expressway with their MAGAt flags and pick up trucks.

They got seven people! :D :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 11:31:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 04, 2023, 10:35:01 PM
We, wait for the one for inciting a riot leading to the death of a few people, anybody else been long charged on this by now

He's got the attempt to strong arm GA into "finding" 12K votes coming too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 04, 2023, 11:32:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 11:28:38 PM
Rally organized on Long Island today. Hoping for 200 to convoy into the city along the Long Island Expressway with their MAGAt flags and pick up trucks.

They got seven people! :D :D
the regimes mayor made it quite clear what would happen to Trump supporters if they went to NYC,!wtf would anyone want to go there for anymore  anyway.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 04, 2023, 11:37:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 04, 2023, 11:32:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 11:28:38 PM
Rally organized on Long Island today. Hoping for 200 to convoy into the city along the Long Island Expressway with their MAGAt flags and pick up trucks.

They got seven people! :D :D
the regimes mayor made it quite clear what would happen to Trump supporters if they went to NYC,!wtf would anyone want to go there for anymore  anyway.

Sure Gmac, that happened. ;D

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 04, 2023, 11:49:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2023, 09:35:20 PM
CNN say the case is weak and that it would already be dismissed if it wasn't Trump.

Noted lawyer CNN - how many cases have they argued in court?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 05, 2023, 12:06:33 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 04, 2023, 11:49:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2023, 09:35:20 PM
CNN say the case is weak and that it would already be dismissed if it wasn't Trump.

Noted lawyer CNN - how many cases have they argued in court?
hurl only believes CNN hoaxes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 05, 2023, 12:08:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

Trump did not demonize and dehumanize anyone ffs...He condemned both sides that were involved in the Charlottesville riot.He never said white christian whites were under attack. Now has Biden said anything racist?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2023, 12:17:15 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 05, 2023, 12:08:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

Trump did not demonize and dehumanize anyone ffs...He condemned both sides that were involved in the Charlottesville riot.He never said white christian whites were under attack. Now has Biden said anything racist?

Oh FFS. 

Time to block another one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on April 05, 2023, 12:25:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2023, 12:17:15 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 05, 2023, 12:08:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

Trump did not demonize and dehumanize anyone ffs...He condemned both sides that were involved in the Charlottesville riot.He never said white christian whites were under attack. Now has Biden said anything racist?

Oh FFS. 

Time to block another one.

Have never blocked anyone on here in my 12 years on here. I'm tempted now and out of interest how is it done?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 05, 2023, 12:33:25 AM
In a hotel lobby atm and CNN is on

The chiron (if that's what they call it) reads

"Trump orchestrated scheme to influence 2016 Election"

Gee-sounds kinda like what happened with the fake dossier doesn't it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 05, 2023, 12:33:47 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 05, 2023, 12:25:32 AM
Have never blocked anyone on here in my 12 years on here. I'm tempted now and out of interest how is it done?

Go to Profile at top and Summary - click that

(https://i.postimg.cc/W3d1GXvX/1.jpg)

Go to Modify Profile and scroll down to Edit Ignore List

(https://i.postimg.cc/xCBTtMjY/2.jpg)

add the username there

(https://i.postimg.cc/15h3FGYr/3.jpg)

a more pleasurable message board experience for you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2023, 12:35:07 AM
Select the ignoree's name and copy it > Click on your name to get to your profile > Modify Profile > Bussies/Ignore list... > Edit Ignore List > Paste the ignoree's name into the Member box > Add
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2023, 12:36:11 AM
Good man, Gabriel.

You'll still see the ignoree's comments when other people quote him, but you soon get used to just scrolling past it because it seldom has anything of value. I sometimes forget myself and read their comments, but then I just remember "Oh yeah, that's why I ignored him."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 05, 2023, 12:52:18 AM
 8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on April 05, 2023, 01:34:28 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 05, 2023, 12:33:47 AM
Go to Profile at top and Summary - click that

(https://i.postimg.cc/W3d1GXvX/1.jpg)

Go to Modify Profile and scroll down to Edit Ignore List

(https://i.postimg.cc/xCBTtMjY/2.jpg)

add the username there

(https://i.postimg.cc/15h3FGYr/3.jpg)

a more pleasurable message board experience for you

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:03:34 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 05, 2023, 12:08:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

Trump did not demonize and dehumanize anyone ffs...He condemned both sides that were involved in the Charlottesville riot.He never said white christian whites were under attack. Now has Biden said anything racist?

Now you're on the wind up.

How much more dehumanizing can you get then having a policy in place to rip tiny children out of their desperate parents arms and ship them across the country, only to lose hundreds of them in the system, all as a "deterrent ? Is that treating people as human beings with dignity? Do you have kids?

How much more demonizing can you get than labeling Mexican immigrants as rapists? Putting in a place a blanket ban on Muslims immigrating in your first week, many of whom had visas and work and families and were in flight? Claiming that a judge in one of your numerous court cases can't be professional because he's of Mexican descent?

There were no two sides at Charlottesville in terms of how Trump put it. One side was a bunch of f**king racist Nazis congregating to protest the removal of a confederate statue and to March through the town with tiki torches shouting "Jews will not replace us!", before then driving a muscle car through a crowd of counter-protesters, injuring many and murdering one. No moral equivalence whatsoever.

How about the launch of his political career with his racist campaign about Obama's birth cert? Who was that meant to appeal to?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:07:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2023, 12:33:25 AM
In a hotel lobby atm and CNN is on

The chiron (if that's what they call it) reads

"Trump orchestrated scheme to influence 2016 Election"

Gee-sounds kinda like what happened with the fake dossier doesn't it

The dossier no one knew anything about until two months after the election?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 05, 2023, 02:15:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:03:34 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 05, 2023, 12:08:47 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 04, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 04, 2023, 12:31:40 AM
Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

Trump did not demonize and dehumanize anyone ffs...He condemned both sides that were involved in the Charlottesville riot.He never said white christian whites were under attack. Now has Biden said anything racist?

Now you're on the wind up.

How much more dehumanizing can you get then having a policy in place to rip tiny children out of their desperate parents arms and ship them across the country, only to lose hundreds of them in the system, all as a "deterrent ? Is that treating people as human beings with dignity? Do you have kids?

How much more demonizing can you get than labeling Mexican immigrants as rapists? Putting in a place a blanket ban on Muslims immigrating in your first week, many of whom had visas and work and families and were in flight? Claiming that a judge in one of your numerous court cases can't be professional because he's of Mexican descent?

There were no two sides at Charlottesville in terms of how Trump put it. One side was a bunch of f**king racist Nazis congregating to protest the removal of a confederate statue and to March through the town with tiki torches shouting "Jews will not replace us!", before then driving a muscle car through a crowd of counter-protesters, injuring many and murdering one. No moral equivalence whatsoever.

How about the launch of his political career with his racist campaign about Obama's birth cert? Who was that meant to appeal to?

I asked about Bidens racist remarks
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 05, 2023, 02:20:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:07:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2023, 12:33:25 AM
In a hotel lobby atm and CNN is on

The chiron (if that's what they call it) reads

"Trump orchestrated scheme to influence 2016 Election"

Gee-sounds kinda like what happened with the fake dossier doesn't it

The dossier no one knew anything about until two months after the election?

Wrong

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:27:30 AM
Yeah, he had some problematic views on bussing in the 70s from a modern liberal perspective, and he's put his foot in his mouth, as he often does, on numerous occasions. Mostly well intentioned, but reflective of an oblivious white man who grew up at a certain time (a close family member, who doesn't have a prejudiced bone in their body, but who is of a similar age to Biden, once in a while does similar).

If you think his intentions and rhetoric and policies as president are racist or even somewhat prejudiced, go ahead and make your case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:41:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2023, 02:20:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:07:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2023, 12:33:25 AM
In a hotel lobby atm and CNN is on

The chiron (if that's what they call it) reads

"Trump orchestrated scheme to influence 2016 Election"

Gee-sounds kinda like what happened with the fake dossier doesn't it

The dossier no one knew anything about until two months after the election?

Wrong

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump/

Ok.

The contents of the dossier came out in January 2017.

Its existence was known before the election.

Months after Manafort was forced to resign and Stone et al were working with Assange and other governments to gather dirt on Clinton.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 05, 2023, 02:50:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:41:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2023, 02:20:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:07:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2023, 12:33:25 AM
In a hotel lobby atm and CNN is on

The chiron (if that's what they call it) reads

"Trump orchestrated scheme to influence 2016 Election"

Gee-sounds kinda like what happened with the fake dossier doesn't it

The dossier no one knew anything about until two months after the election?

Wrong

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump/

Ok.

The contents of the dossier came out in January 2017.

Its existence was known before the election.

Months after Manafort was forced to resign and Stone et al were working with Assange and other governments to gather dirt on Clinton.

They "orchestrated a scheme to influence the election"

How hard is it for you to admit that is true without twisting yourself into a knot?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 05, 2023, 03:20:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2023, 02:50:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:41:17 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2023, 02:20:05 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:07:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 05, 2023, 12:33:25 AM
In a hotel lobby atm and CNN is on

The chiron (if that's what they call it) reads

"Trump orchestrated scheme to influence 2016 Election"

Gee-sounds kinda like what happened with the fake dossier doesn't it

The dossier no one knew anything about until two months after the election?

Wrong

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump/

Ok.

The contents of the dossier came out in January 2017.

Its existence was known before the election.

Months after Manafort was forced to resign and Stone et al were working with Assange and other governments to gather dirt on Clinton.

They "orchestrated a scheme to influence the election"

How hard is it for you to admit that is true without twisting yourself into a knot?

They passed on problematic information they'd found to the FBI.

If there is evidence that they knew that some or all of it was false when they passed it on, then present it.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: theskull1 on April 05, 2023, 09:15:38 AM
Just to lighten the mood
;D
STORMY DANIELS Confronts TRUMP about Horse comment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkbZbaAvEu0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkbZbaAvEu0)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on April 05, 2023, 09:28:52 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on April 05, 2023, 09:15:38 AM
Just to lighten the mood
;D
STORMY DANIELS Confronts TRUMP about Horse comment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkbZbaAvEu0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkbZbaAvEu0)

Stormy "Horse Face" Daniels. It's like something I'd come out with on the Loserpool thread to wind them halfwits up. Not really something I'd say if I wanted to run for the Presidency of America.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 05, 2023, 02:29:56 PM
He has a nickname for everyone he doesn't like. Trump is closest thing to a man child one can ever see.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 05, 2023, 06:50:56 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 05, 2023, 02:29:56 PM
He has a nickname for everyone he doesn't like. Trump is closest thing to a man child one can ever see.
whatever captain oblivious
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 05, 2023, 07:21:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 05, 2023, 09:28:52 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on April 05, 2023, 09:15:38 AM
Just to lighten the mood
;D
STORMY DANIELS Confronts TRUMP about Horse comment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkbZbaAvEu0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkbZbaAvEu0)

Stormy "Horse Face" Daniels. It's like something I'd come out with on the Loserpool thread to wind them halfwits up. Not really something I'd say if I wanted to run for the Presidency of America.

If you say "Whores face" in a Trump accent it does sound like horse face. Maybe they've got it wrong all along.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 05, 2023, 11:44:34 PM
Robert f Kennedy running against Biden , finally a democrat I could consider voting for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 06, 2023, 12:09:48 AM
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/07/report-rfk-jr-moved-wifes-grave-078430?_amp=true

Another lovely person

(But I would vote for him over Trump)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 06, 2023, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:27:30 AM
Yeah, he had some problematic views on bussing in the 70s from a modern liberal perspective, and he's put his foot in his mouth, as he often does, on numerous occasions. Mostly well intentioned, but reflective of an oblivious white man who grew up at a certain time (a close family member, who doesn't have a prejudiced bone in their body, but who is of a similar age to Biden, once in a while does similar).

If you think his intentions and rhetoric and policies as president are racist or even somewhat prejudiced, go ahead and make your case.

Bingo
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 06, 2023, 02:55:24 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 06, 2023, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:27:30 AM
Yeah, he had some problematic views on bussing in the 70s from a modern liberal perspective, and he's put his foot in his mouth, as he often does, on numerous occasions. Mostly well intentioned, but reflective of an oblivious white man who grew up at a certain time (a close family member, who doesn't have a prejudiced bone in their body, but who is of a similar age to Biden, once in a while does similar).

If you think his intentions and rhetoric and policies as president are racist or even somewhat prejudiced, go ahead and make your case.

Bingo
anyone who thinks Biden is a decision maker or is the policy driver in this administration doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2023, 05:06:14 AM
Anyone see Lauren "I came to the hearing unprepared, thinking I was going to bust all around me, and got my ass handed to me instead" Boebert the other day? I'm half hoping she makes a presidential run someday. This bimbo's hilarious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ORG8K3BmAo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ORG8K3BmAo)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 06, 2023, 09:39:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2023, 05:06:14 AM
Anyone see Lauren "I came to the hearing unprepared, thinking I was going to bust all around me, and got my ass handed to me instead" Boebert the other day? I'm half hoping she makes a presidential run someday. This bimbo's hilarious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ORG8K3BmAo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ORG8K3BmAo)

Careful now. Talk like that will get you cancelled by your lot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 06, 2023, 03:16:28 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2023, 09:39:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2023, 05:06:14 AM
Anyone see Lauren "I came to the hearing unprepared, thinking I was going to bust all around me, and got my ass handed to me instead" Boebert the other day? I'm half hoping she makes a presidential run someday. This bimbo's hilarious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ORG8K3BmAo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ORG8K3BmAo)

Careful now. Talk like that will get you cancelled by your lot.
again they are what they call you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: gallsman on April 06, 2023, 03:20:54 PM
Put whatever term on it you want, but there's no getting away from the fact she's thick as pig shit.

Quote from: Gmac on April 06, 2023, 02:55:24 AManyone who thinks Biden is a decision maker or is the policy driver in this administration doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

Nobody believes that, sure it's George Soros and Mickey Mouse making all the big decisions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2023, 04:24:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2023, 03:20:54 PM
Put whatever term on it you want, but there's no getting away from the fact she's thick as pig shit.

If she had two heads she'd be twice as stupid.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 07, 2023, 01:05:58 AM
https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023/4/5/23666618/man-with-down-syndrome-indicted-in-separate-slayings-just-10-days-apart


I've heard it all now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2023, 06:26:38 AM
Republican Donor Harlan Crow has been giving millions of dollars to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and his wife Ginni Thomas for over 20 years, off the books, under the table.

ProPublica just discovered that Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and his wife Ginni Thomas secretly were provided with luxury vacations by Republican donor Harlan Crow. This included multiple flights on his private jet, cruises on a mega yacht and stays at Crow's private resort. Just about every single year the Thomas' were provided with these extravagant gifts, without filing any financial disclosure or documents.

Just imaging Republican outrage if this was George Soros providing these gifts to a liberal Supreme Court Justice. Just imagine!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2023, 06:35:47 AM
I stand with the Tennessee Three.

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2023/04/06/what-to-know-about-the-tennessee-three-ahead-of-expulsion-vote-00090829
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on April 07, 2023, 08:56:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 06, 2023, 02:55:24 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 06, 2023, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:27:30 AM
Yeah, he had some problematic views on bussing in the 70s from a modern liberal perspective, and he's put his foot in his mouth, as he often does, on numerous occasions. Mostly well intentioned, but reflective of an oblivious white man who grew up at a certain time (a close family member, who doesn't have a prejudiced bone in their body, but who is of a similar age to Biden, once in a while does similar).

If you think his intentions and rhetoric and policies as president are racist or even somewhat prejudiced, go ahead and make your case.

Bingo
anyone who thinks Biden is a decision maker or is the policy driver in this administration doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

George Soros, the Illuminati and Jim Corr control him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 07, 2023, 03:08:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 07, 2023, 08:56:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 06, 2023, 02:55:24 AM
Quote from: Piskin on April 06, 2023, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:27:30 AM
Yeah, he had some problematic views on bussing in the 70s from a modern liberal perspective, and he's put his foot in his mouth, as he often does, on numerous occasions. Mostly well intentioned, but reflective of an oblivious white man who grew up at a certain time (a close family member, who doesn't have a prejudiced bone in their body, but who is of a similar age to Biden, once in a while does similar).

If you think his intentions and rhetoric and policies as president are racist or even somewhat prejudiced, go ahead and make your case.

Bingo
anyone who thinks Biden is a decision maker or is the policy driver in this administration doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

George Soros, the Illuminati and Jim Corr control him.
as I was saying
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2023, 05:23:04 PM
Impeach corrupt Clarence!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2023, 07:50:18 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/340200980_777583567217482_7249762314066910478_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=isXz8eudFvsAX_gkhIF&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AfD1BiJARpxkkWAQETf6U7sGVVUuBIq0_mIuFI6DAhrjNA&oe=6435DE9C)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2023, 05:39:28 AM
Business Insider is reporting that Jared Kushner created a shell company that "secretly paid" Trump's family members & spent half of the campaign's $1.26 billion! A cool $617 million in cash meant for Trump's reelection campaign essentially disappeared without any  public view.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 10, 2023, 07:56:36 AM
Lad. You have posted 6 out of the last 8 posts on this thread and nobody is biting. My advice would be to put the phone down and go enjoy the Easter break with your family. This can't be good for you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: snoopdog on April 10, 2023, 08:15:00 AM
Chinnock helicopters flying over South Dublin last night. I assume they can only be US Army. A few Army coloured planes also this last week
Joe must have some entourage coming with him. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 10, 2023, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: snoopdog on April 10, 2023, 08:15:00 AM
Chinnock helicopters flying over South Dublin last night. I assume they can only be US Army. A few Army coloured planes also this last week
Joe must have some entourage coming with him.

His cars have been here for a week now.
It's some operation.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2023, 12:11:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 10, 2023, 07:56:36 AM
Lad. You have posted 6 out of the last 8 posts on this thread and nobody is biting. My advice would be to put the phone down and go enjoy the Easter break with your family. This can't be good for you.

Ease up there Mr Thread Police
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 10, 2023, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 10, 2023, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: snoopdog on April 10, 2023, 08:15:00 AM
Chinnock helicopters flying over South Dublin last night. I assume they can only be US Army. A few Army coloured planes also this last week
Joe must have some entourage coming with him.

His cars have been here for a week now.
It's some operation.
just saw on local news there was a bomb plot planned for Bidens visit in the north busted by police  ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 03:54:34 PM
Quote from: Piskin on April 06, 2023, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2023, 02:27:30 AM
Yeah, he had some problematic views on bussing in the 70s from a modern liberal perspective, and he's put his foot in his mouth, as he often does, on numerous occasions. Mostly well intentioned, but reflective of an oblivious white man who grew up at a certain time (a close family member, who doesn't have a prejudiced bone in their body, but who is of a similar age to Biden, once in a while does similar).

If you think his intentions and rhetoric and policies as president are racist or even somewhat prejudiced, go ahead and make your case.

Bingo

Bingo??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 05, 2023, 11:44:34 PM
Robert f Kennedy running against Biden , finally a democrat I could consider voting for.

Because he's an antivax extremist?

Where are you on his environmental advocacy from earlier in his career?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 03:56:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2023, 05:39:28 AM
Business Insider is reporting that Jared Kushner created a shell company that "secretly paid" Trump's family members & spent half of the campaign's $1.26 billion! A cool $617 million in cash meant for Trump's reelection campaign essentially disappeared without any  public view.

But... but... Hunter Biden!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2023, 05:23:04 PM
Impeach corrupt Clarence!

But...but... Hunter Biden!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2023, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2023, 05:23:04 PM
Impeach corrupt Clarence!

But...but... Hunter Biden!

So you have no issues with the degenerate, alcoholic,  drug addicted son of the President of the United States, getting "paid" millions of dollars for a "job" that he has no qualifications or experience in?

And before you ask about the Kushners and Saudi Arabia, I am already on record saying that they had (and have) no business doing what they did and it should be fully investigated
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2023, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 10, 2023, 07:56:36 AM
Lad. You have posted 6 out of the last 8 posts on this thread and nobody is biting. My advice would be to put the phone down and go enjoy the Easter break with your family. This can't be good for you.

What else am I supposed to do while sitting on the bog?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2023, 05:33:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2023, 05:23:04 PM
Impeach corrupt Clarence!

But...but... Hunter Biden!

I'd say whataboutery and "both sides are as bad as the other" will be the standard defense.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 10, 2023, 05:57:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 10, 2023, 05:17:54 PM
So you have no issues with the degenerate, alcoholic,  drug addicted son of the President of the United States, getting "paid" millions of dollars for a "job" that he has no qualifications or experience in?

Don Jr?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 10, 2023, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2023, 05:23:04 PM
Impeach corrupt Clarence!

But...but... Hunter Biden!

So you have no issues with the degenerate, alcoholic,  drug addicted son of the President of the United States, getting "paid" millions of dollars for a "job" that he has no qualifications or experience in?

And before you ask about the Kushners and Saudi Arabia, I am already on record saying that they had (and have) no business doing what they did and it should be fully investigated


We've been over this a million times before.

I don't  give a f**k about Hunter Biden because he is merely doing what they all do i.e. trading on access and connections to enrich themselves at the trough of government and power. Ask me to vote on strict limits on the sale of access and on lobbying and you'll have my full support. Until then, spare me the crocodile tears. Whether he is a degenerate addict or not is of zero relevance.

And as I've also said before, investigate away. I'm not going to whine and cry conspiracy about investigations unlike certain individuals here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 08:56:32 PM
And Clarence Thomas is an unethical disgrace.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2023, 09:11:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 10, 2023, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2023, 05:23:04 PM
Impeach corrupt Clarence!

But...but... Hunter Biden!

So you have no issues with the degenerate, alcoholic,  drug addicted son of the President of the United States, getting "paid" millions of dollars for a "job" that he has no qualifications or experience in?

And before you ask about the Kushners and Saudi Arabia, I am already on record saying that they had (and have) no business doing what they did and it should be fully investigated


We've been over this a million times before.

I don't  give a f**k about Hunter Biden because he is merely doing what they all do i.e. trading on access and connections to enrich themselves at the trough of government and power. Ask me to vote on strict limits on the sale of access and on lobbying and you'll have my full support. Until then, spare me the crocodile tears. Whether he is a degenerate addict or not is of zero relevance.

And as I've also said before, investigate away. I'm not going to whine and cry conspiracy about investigations unlike certain individuals here.

Thanks for answering

Says a lot about you

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 09:24:40 PM
Do elaborate. ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on April 10, 2023, 09:36:10 PM
Well, J70, it seems like you're saying 'draining the swamp' wasn't such a bad idea, after all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 10, 2023, 09:39:50 PM
Draining the swamp is a fantastic idea.

Someone should try it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 09:52:40 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 10, 2023, 09:36:10 PM
Well, J70, it seems like you're saying 'draining the swamp' wasn't such a bad idea, after all.

If that was what Trump had meant, absolutely it was a good idea.

Unfortunately, it wasn't.

Demonstrated not least by he, his family, and his friends like Bannon using the administration and campaigns as a money making scheme to screw the taxpayer and his followers out of cash.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on April 10, 2023, 10:27:13 PM
Yeah, certainly, Trump wasn't the perfect one to do it - but I still get the feeling they're out to get him because they couldn't control him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2023, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 09:24:40 PM
Do elaborate. ::)

It's a false equivalence of epic proportions

Yes both sides do it, but anyone else that Ive read about (D or R) has some general business competence or expertise in the specific field of doing what they're getting paid to do

He's the only one I have  read about who's essentially bankrupt

He's the only one I have read about who has a serious drug and alcohol addiction

Someone who's judgment is that impaired (FFS he got a stripper pregnant after having an affair with his dead brothers widow) would be liable to do anything to get money and would be a serious national security threat
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 10:38:58 PM
And just what of a national security nature is someone like Hunter Biden privy to?

Is there evidence out there (or even serious suggestions) that the interests of the US government or its representatives or the security of civilians has been compromised by Hunter Biden?

Is Joe Biden supposed to be a man who discusses classified information and policy over dinner with his desperate son?

And if f**king around with strippers or prostitutes or even acquaintances you're not supposed to is disqualifying when it comes to an assumption of good judgement and responsibility, half the politicians, judges, lobbyists and government contractors in DC and many other capitals are compromised.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 10:42:40 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 10, 2023, 10:27:13 PM
Yeah, certainly, Trump wasn't the perfect one to do it - but I still get the feeling they're out to get him because they couldn't control him.

How so?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 10, 2023, 10:47:08 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 10, 2023, 10:27:13 PM
Yeah, certainly, Trump wasn't the perfect one to do it - but I still get the feeling they're out to get him because they couldn't control him.
chuck Shumer warned him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2023, 10:50:30 PM
Well done, lads. You allowed them to change the subject of this thread to Hunter Biden. Their deflection is effective because youse keep falling for it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 10, 2023, 10:47:08 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 10, 2023, 10:27:13 PM
Yeah, certainly, Trump wasn't the perfect one to do it - but I still get the feeling they're out to get him because they couldn't control him.
chuck Shumer warned him

About what?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 10:54:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2023, 10:50:30 PM
Well done, lads. You allowed them to change the subject of this thread to Hunter Biden. Their deflection is effective because youse keep falling for it.

But no one is denying Hunter Biden is a piece of shit who warrants legitimate investigation, even if as usual it will most likely turn out to be all smoke.

On the other hand, some of these lads deny that there is anything about Trump or January 6 or the attempted theft of the election that should be subject to investigation.

And they'll probably start howling if any look is taken at Justice Thomas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 10, 2023, 10:59:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 10, 2023, 10:47:08 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 10, 2023, 10:27:13 PM
Yeah, certainly, Trump wasn't the perfect one to do it - but I still get the feeling they're out to get him because they couldn't control him.
chuck Shumer warned him

About what?
messing with intelligence agencies , no name government officials etc , the top general in the army was going to warn china about Trump , that was before he was more interested in drag queens on army bases
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 10, 2023, 11:02:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 10:38:58 PM
And just what of a national security nature is someone like Hunter Biden privy to?

Is there evidence out there (or even serious suggestions) that the interests of the US government or its representatives or the security of civilians has been compromised by Hunter Biden?

Is Joe Biden supposed to be a man who discusses classified information and policy over dinner with his desperate son?

And if f**king around with strippers or prostitutes or even acquaintances you're not supposed to is disqualifying when it comes to an assumption of good judgement and responsibility, half the politicians, judges, lobbyists and government contractors in DC and many other capitals are compromised.

Again you're twisting yourself into a pretzel making excuses

Didn't Joe have unsecured classified documents in his garage and his foundations office?

Anyone, including Hunter could have accessed them

Do you object to this whole  being fairly and thoroughly investigated ?

(I'm not talking about Jim Jordan going on a witch hunt)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 11:22:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 10, 2023, 11:02:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 10:38:58 PM
And just what of a national security nature is someone like Hunter Biden privy to?

Is there evidence out there (or even serious suggestions) that the interests of the US government or its representatives or the security of civilians has been compromised by Hunter Biden?

Is Joe Biden supposed to be a man who discusses classified information and policy over dinner with his desperate son?

And if f**king around with strippers or prostitutes or even acquaintances you're not supposed to is disqualifying when it comes to an assumption of good judgement and responsibility, half the politicians, judges, lobbyists and government contractors in DC and many other capitals are compromised.

Again you're twisting yourself into a pretzel making excuses

Didn't Joe have unsecured classified documents in his garage and his foundations office?

Anyone, including Hunter could have accessed them

Do you object to this whole  being fairly and thoroughly investigated ?

(I'm not talking about Jim Jordan going on a witch hunt)

Not twisting at all.

Hadn't thought about the documents, but yes, that's a fair point.

On the investigation, as far as I'm aware, the FBI is investigating it.

In addition to the various congressional ones, which I have no issue with if they're done fairly and thoroughly, and not just an exercise in damaging a political opponent like the umpteen Benghazi ones were.

I have already said on numerous occasions I have no objection to it being thoroughly investigated and any wrong doing being exposed and appropriately punished.

On the whole though, I still don't really care. The sale of influence and access is a feature of the system, not a bug. In this case the stakes MIGHT be a little higher, but probably not.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2023, 11:24:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 10, 2023, 10:59:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 10, 2023, 10:47:08 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 10, 2023, 10:27:13 PM
Yeah, certainly, Trump wasn't the perfect one to do it - but I still get the feeling they're out to get him because they couldn't control him.
chuck Shumer warned him

About what?
messing with intelligence agencies , no name government officials etc , the top general in the army was going to warn china about Trump , that was before he was more interested in drag queens on army bases

Any chance of, just once, making a coherent point?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 11, 2023, 03:20:01 PM
https://twitter.com/Awake_IL/status/1645431406548451330?s=20

Very interesting angle on the gender discussion
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 11, 2023, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 03:20:01 PM
https://twitter.com/Awake_IL/status/1645431406548451330?s=20

Very interesting angle on the gender discussion

Are we supposed to respond to the video itself or the apocalyptic headline?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 11, 2023, 04:01:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 11, 2023, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 03:20:01 PM
https://twitter.com/Awake_IL/status/1645431406548451330?s=20

Very interesting angle on the gender discussion

Are we supposed to respond to the video itself or the apocalyptic headline?

The video clip
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 11, 2023, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 04:01:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 11, 2023, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 03:20:01 PM
https://twitter.com/Awake_IL/status/1645431406548451330?s=20

Very interesting angle on the gender discussion

Are we supposed to respond to the video itself or the apocalyptic headline?

The video clip

Only watched it once, but it looks pretty mild, inclusive and non-offensive to me.

Don't think I'd have any objection to it being shown to my kids.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 11, 2023, 04:43:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 11, 2023, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 04:01:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 11, 2023, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 03:20:01 PM
https://twitter.com/Awake_IL/status/1645431406548451330?s=20

Very interesting angle on the gender discussion

Are we supposed to respond to the video itself or the apocalyptic headline?

The video clip

Only watched it once, but it looks pretty mild, inclusive and non-offensive to me.

Don't think I'd have any objection to it being shown to my kids.

Fair enough

Do you think the kid was being coached?

Do you think a 4 year old knows that they're non binary and that their biological parents made an error by assigning a gender to them?

What would your opinion be of people who would object to this being introduced to their kids in a public school setting?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 11, 2023, 05:06:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 04:43:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 11, 2023, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 04:01:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 11, 2023, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 03:20:01 PM
https://twitter.com/Awake_IL/status/1645431406548451330?s=20

Very interesting angle on the gender discussion

Are we supposed to respond to the video itself or the apocalyptic headline?

The video clip

Only watched it once, but it looks pretty mild, inclusive and non-offensive to me.

Don't think I'd have any objection to it being shown to my kids.

Fair enough

Do you think the kid was being coached?

Do you think a 4 year old knows that they're non binary and that their biological parents made an error by assigning a gender to them?

What would your opinion be of people who would object to this being introduced to their kids in a public school setting?

I'd say that I'm sure the kid was coached or was an actor. It was an educational video wasn't it? Kind of hard to get that down first time even with adults. Or maybe it was real and unscripted. Either way, I'm not sure why that matters.

I'm sure a young child could easily notice that they felt like a girl in some respects and a boy in others but would not know how to express that. Isn't that the point of this, to help them and those kids around them understand that its ok?

On attitudes towards it being introduced in a school, I think at this point parents should be allowed to opt their kids out, but should not be allowed to prevent the children of other families from being exposed.

Same as my attitude to stuff like the book burners or drag stories to be honest.

Beyond that, if you want to discuss this I'd say you should move it to the dedicated thread on this topic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 11, 2023, 07:35:11 PM
Thanks-i forgot there was a separate thread

My $0.02

It's a pile of mullarkey. Lesbian couple putting notions in a 5 year old kids head looking for some type of validation

Of the non-binary/trans kids I know (personally) in at least two of the cases, it's the parents who are promoting and encouraging it

The other kids are just lost souls with no friends who are looking for a group to latch onto

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 11, 2023, 08:00:25 PM
(https://chandra.harvard.edu/chemistry/images/piechart.png)

The atoms in the universe are binary. You're either hydrogen or you're helium. We can't go around saying there's 118 elements just because of a handful of exceptions!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 11, 2023, 10:38:35 PM
The Dylan mulvaney periodic table ?
Not a bad slogan as he is a new Tampax salesman
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on April 11, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 11, 2023, 10:38:35 PM
The Dylan mulvaney periodic table ?
Not a bad slogan as he is a new Tampax salesman

Touché.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2023, 11:04:55 PM
It seems by all the comments on here the politicians are just strange people voted in by even stranger people
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Piskin on April 11, 2023, 11:44:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 11, 2023, 07:35:11 PM
Thanks-i forgot there was a separate thread

My $0.02

It's a pile of mullarkey. Lesbian couple putting notions in a 5 year old kids head looking for some type of validation

Of the non-binary/trans kids I know (personally) in at least two of the cases, it's the parents who are promoting and encouraging it

The other kids are just lost souls with no friends who are looking for a group to latch onto
[/quot

It is seriously fucked up
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 12, 2023, 12:17:01 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 11, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 11, 2023, 10:38:35 PM
The Dylan mulvaney periodic table ?
Not a bad slogan as he is a new Tampax salesman

Touché.

The more you know....https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=touche+meaning (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=touche+meaning)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 12, 2023, 12:37:19 AM
For someone I'd never heard of until whitey mentioned their name last week, Dylan Mulvaney sure seems to have a few of the lads feeling threatened.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 12, 2023, 03:05:34 AM
Hunter is heading to Ireland with joe , lock up your crack and your hoes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2023, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 12:37:19 AM
For someone I'd never heard of until whitey mentioned their name last week, Dylan Mulvaney sure seems to have a few of the lads feeling threatened.

It can be a bit hard to keep up with the conservative outrage machine. It seems like every day Fox news tells them to be angry about or afraid of a person/event in some obscure corner of the country, even though it doesn't affect them one damn bit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on April 12, 2023, 08:16:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2023, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 12:37:19 AM
For someone I'd never heard of until whitey mentioned their name last week, Dylan Mulvaney sure seems to have a few of the lads feeling threatened.

It can be a bit hard to keep up with the conservative outrage machine. It seems like every day Fox news tells them to be angry about or afraid of a person/event in some obscure corner of the country, even though it doesn't affect them one damn bit.

Nothing like a bit of apathy, eh? Pity ye lot couldn't have canned yer own over-sized outrage during the Trump years. But then - where's the virtue in that?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2023, 09:50:06 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 12, 2023, 08:16:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2023, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 12:37:19 AM
For someone I'd never heard of until whitey mentioned their name last week, Dylan Mulvaney sure seems to have a few of the lads feeling threatened.

It can be a bit hard to keep up with the conservative outrage machine. It seems like every day Fox news tells them to be angry about or afraid of a person/event in some obscure corner of the country, even though it doesn't affect them one damn bit.

Nothing like a bit of apathy, eh? Pity ye lot couldn't have canned yer own over-sized outrage during the Trump years. But then - where's the virtue in that?

Trump was the President of the United States and his policies (or lack thereof) contributed to the deaths of about half a million Americans (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/02/11/report-trump-associated-with-461000-deaths-in-2018-others-deserve-blame-though/?sh=649865682a31). Dylan Mulvaney is, apparently, some actress. If you can't spot the difference then I don't know what to tell you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 12, 2023, 11:08:59 PM
https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA  (https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA)

Imagine for a second if Trump did this.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 12, 2023, 11:49:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 12, 2023, 11:08:59 PM
https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA  (https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA)

Imagine for a second if Trump did this.

Mislabeled a sports team?

I'd imagine people would have giggled and moved on.

It certainly wouldn't fit into the top 500 worse things Trump did or said.

But sure go ahead and tell us.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 12, 2023, 11:51:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2023, 09:50:06 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 12, 2023, 08:16:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2023, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 12:37:19 AM
For someone I'd never heard of until whitey mentioned their name last week, Dylan Mulvaney sure seems to have a few of the lads feeling threatened.

It can be a bit hard to keep up with the conservative outrage machine. It seems like every day Fox news tells them to be angry about or afraid of a person/event in some obscure corner of the country, even though it doesn't affect them one damn bit.

Nothing like a bit of apathy, eh? Pity ye lot couldn't have canned yer own over-sized outrage during the Trump years. But then - where's the virtue in that?

Trump was the President of the United States and his policies (or lack thereof) contributed to the deaths of about half a million Americans (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/02/11/report-trump-associated-with-461000-deaths-in-2018-others-deserve-blame-though/?sh=649865682a31). Dylan Mulvaney is, apparently, some actress. If you can't spot the difference then I don't know what to tell you.

Trump and his base are the real victims. In everything. Don't you know that? ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: From the Bunker on April 13, 2023, 12:15:18 AM
There are some crazy dilapidated towns in Mid-America that could never imagine POTUS coming to their town and saying we are going to invest here like Biden said in the North today! It kinda crazy and sad!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 11:49:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 12, 2023, 11:08:59 PM
https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA  (https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA)

Imagine for a second if Trump did this.

Mislabeled a sports team?

I'd imagine people would have giggled and moved on.

It certainly wouldn't fit into the top 500 worse things Trump did or said.

But sure go ahead and tell us.
joe should be retired and  enjoying all the ccp and Ukraine money he swindled  over the years
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2023, 12:59:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2023, 11:49:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 12, 2023, 11:08:59 PM
https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA  (https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA)

Imagine for a second if Trump did this.

Mislabeled a sports team?

I'd imagine people would have giggled and moved on.

It certainly wouldn't fit into the top 500 worse things Trump did or said.

But sure go ahead and tell us.
joe should be retired and  enjoying all the ccp and Ukraine money he swindled  over the years

That'll come.

Most likely in 2029 if the GOP run Trump again. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2023, 01:10:00 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 13, 2023, 12:15:18 AM
There are some crazy dilapidated towns in Mid-America that could never imagine POTUS coming to their town and saying we are going to invest here like Biden said in the North today! It kinda crazy and sad!

It's not like it's the US government that will be investing. It's corporations. They go where they can make money and leave when they can't, unfortunately for those hollowed out towns.

I would have liked to have made a life in Donegal myself. My wife is from a tiny western US town. Both of us had to leave our respective home places to find successful careers.

Capitalism and globalization, for better or for worse.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 13, 2023, 02:29:07 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 12, 2023, 11:08:59 PM
https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA  (https://twitter.com/dazmanonline/status/1646233718544007187?s=48&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA)

Imagine for a second if Trump did this.

Imagine it?

https://youtu.be/UE9BXkQ-SRc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 03:08:49 AM
BREAKING NEWS: A corrupt Republican lawmaker has just been EXPELLED from the Arizona State Legislature over ethics violations, including some relating to election misinformation.

According to Democracy Docket, the Arizona House now has 29 Democrats and 30 Republicans.

Unlike the recent attempts to remove two Black members of the Tennessee State Legislature, the resolution to expel GOP Rep. Liz Harris received BIPARTISAN support!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on April 13, 2023, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 03:08:49 AM
BREAKING NEWS: A corrupt Republican lawmaker has just been EXPELLED from the Arizona State Legislature over ethics violations, including some relating to election misinformation.

According to Democracy Docket, the Arizona House now has 29 Democrats and 30 Republicans.

Unlike the recent attempts to remove two Black members of the Tennessee State Legislature, the resolution to expel GOP Rep. Liz Harris received BIPARTISAN support!
As Trump was prone to utter, that was a   "bipartiss solucius"

noteworthy -- "The  (Arizona)  House's vote last Thursday to remove Pearson and Rep. Justin Jones but keep white Rep. Gloria Johnson drew accusations of racism. Johnson survived by one vote. The Republican leadership denied that race was a factor."  ::)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 13, 2023, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 03:08:49 AM
BREAKING NEWS: A corrupt Republican lawmaker has just been EXPELLED from the Arizona State Legislature over ethics violations, including some relating to election misinformation.

According to Democracy Docket, the Arizona House now has 29 Democrats and 30 Republicans.

Unlike the recent attempts to remove two Black members of the Tennessee State Legislature, the resolution to expel GOP Rep. Liz Harris received BIPARTISAN support!
As Trump was prone to utter, that was a   "bipartiss solucius"

noteworthy -- "The  (Arizona)  House's vote last Thursday to remove Pearson and Rep. Justin Jones but keep white Rep. Gloria Johnson drew accusations of racism. Johnson survived by one vote. The Republican leadership denied that race was a factor."  ::)
great video going around of aoc and the fake mlk guy from Tennessee one shows how they normally speak and their normal way of speaking the other shows how they speak when they are talking to their supporters at a demonstration or protest , complete phonies acting a part for a clown audience.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2023, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 13, 2023, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 03:08:49 AM
BREAKING NEWS: A corrupt Republican lawmaker has just been EXPELLED from the Arizona State Legislature over ethics violations, including some relating to election misinformation.

According to Democracy Docket, the Arizona House now has 29 Democrats and 30 Republicans.

Unlike the recent attempts to remove two Black members of the Tennessee State Legislature, the resolution to expel GOP Rep. Liz Harris received BIPARTISAN support!
As Trump was prone to utter, that was a   "bipartiss solucius"

noteworthy -- "The  (Arizona)  House's vote last Thursday to remove Pearson and Rep. Justin Jones but keep white Rep. Gloria Johnson drew accusations of racism. Johnson survived by one vote. The Republican leadership denied that race was a factor."  ::)
great video going around of aoc and the fake mlk guy from Tennessee one shows how they normally speak and their normal way of speaking the other shows how they speak when they are talking to their supporters at a demonstration or protest , complete phonies acting a part for a clown audience.

So your point, as far as I can tell from that word salad, is that she affects an accent now and again?

Is that it?

That's the AOC outrage the right are dragging up again? ;D

That's the only response you have to the major own goal the Tennesse GOP scored or the AZ rep being booted by her colleagues of both parties for ethics violations?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 03:31:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2023, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 13, 2023, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 03:08:49 AM
BREAKING NEWS: A corrupt Republican lawmaker has just been EXPELLED from the Arizona State Legislature over ethics violations, including some relating to election misinformation.

According to Democracy Docket, the Arizona House now has 29 Democrats and 30 Republicans.

Unlike the recent attempts to remove two Black members of the Tennessee State Legislature, the resolution to expel GOP Rep. Liz Harris received BIPARTISAN support!
As Trump was prone to utter, that was a   "bipartiss solucius"

noteworthy -- "The  (Arizona)  House's vote last Thursday to remove Pearson and Rep. Justin Jones but keep white Rep. Gloria Johnson drew accusations of racism. Johnson survived by one vote. The Republican leadership denied that race was a factor."  ::)
great video going around of aoc and the fake mlk guy from Tennessee one shows how they normally speak and their normal way of speaking the other shows how they speak when they are talking to their supporters at a demonstration or protest , complete phonies acting a part for a clown audience.

So your point, as far as I can tell from that word salad, is that she affects an accent now and again?

Is that it?

That's the AOC outrage the right are dragging up again? ;D

That's the only response you have to the major own goal the Tennesse GOP scored or the AZ rep being booted by her colleagues of both parties for ethics violations?
just shows what suckers y'all are , all the fakery is  to become famous and rich while all the time talking about equality equity and socialism , insurrectionists should be in jail no ? same applies to Tennessee insurrectionists
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2023, 03:56:04 PM
Tennessee insurrectionists? Jail?

How does that work?;D

Given all your apparent concern about "fakery", how does that apply to the wider GOP relationship with Trump?

Most of them are scathing of him in private, but deathly afraid to say anything in public lest they fall foul of the orange god-king and suffer the fate of Liz Cheney or get yelled at in the airport like Lindsey Graham was after Jan 6 when he had the audacity to offer a mild condemnation of Trump's recklessness and incitement.

How about your latest hero, De Santis, who you're supposedly all in on?

He's the right hard lad when it comes to easy targets like asylum seekers or gay and trans people or young students wearing masks or a progressive DA, but a cowardly mouse who is afraid to go toe to toe with Trump to win a nomination that is (or at least was) there for the taking. It's not like Trump isn't throwing loads of abuse towards him. Where does he rate on your authenticity metre?

We could throw in the Fox News ghouls like Tucker who were trash talking Trump in private conversations but are now back to providing platforms for his insane ramblings and love letters to Xi, Kim and Putin? How about them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 04:31:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2023, 03:56:04 PM
Tennessee insurrectionists? Jail?

How does that work?;D

Given all your apparent concern about "fakery", how does that apply to the wider GOP relationship with Trump?

Most of them are scathing of him in private, but deathly afraid to say anything in public lest they fall foul of the orange god-king and suffer the fate of Liz Cheney or get yelled at in the airport like Lindsey Graham was after Jan 6 when he had the audacity to offer a mild condemnation of Trump's recklessness and incitement.

How about your latest hero, De Santis, who you're supposedly all in on?

He's the right hard lad when it comes to easy targets like asylum seekers or gay and trans people or young students wearing masks or a progressive DA, but a cowardly mouse who is afraid to go toe to toe with Trump to win a nomination that is (or at least was) there for the taking. It's not like Trump isn't throwing loads of abuse towards him. Where does he rate on your authenticity metre?

We could throw in the Fox News ghouls like Tucker who were trash talking Trump in private conversations but are now back to providing platforms for his insane ramblings and love letters to Xi, Kim and Putin? How about them?
insane ramblings ? Joe is all good though
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2023, 05:00:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 04:31:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2023, 03:56:04 PM
Tennessee insurrectionists? Jail?

How does that work?;D

Given all your apparent concern about "fakery", how does that apply to the wider GOP relationship with Trump?

Most of them are scathing of him in private, but deathly afraid to say anything in public lest they fall foul of the orange god-king and suffer the fate of Liz Cheney or get yelled at in the airport like Lindsey Graham was after Jan 6 when he had the audacity to offer a mild condemnation of Trump's recklessness and incitement.

How about your latest hero, De Santis, who you're supposedly all in on?

He's the right hard lad when it comes to easy targets like asylum seekers or gay and trans people or young students wearing masks or a progressive DA, but a cowardly mouse who is afraid to go toe to toe with Trump to win a nomination that is (or at least was) there for the taking. It's not like Trump isn't throwing loads of abuse towards him. Where does he rate on your authenticity metre?

We could throw in the Fox News ghouls like Tucker who were trash talking Trump in private conversations but are now back to providing platforms for his insane ramblings and love letters to Xi, Kim and Putin? How about them?
insane ramblings ? Joe is all good though

That's all you pick out?

Ok, Joe is a gaffe machine. He's slowing down with age, but he has made gaffes his entire political life.

Trump, on the other hand, is a self-serving proven liar who gushes admiringly and earnestly about the "total control" violent despots have over their countries and wants to fraudulently bypass or ride roughshod over the democratic processes in his own country to serve his own personal purposes.

There is no comparison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 05:12:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2023, 05:00:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 04:31:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2023, 03:56:04 PM
Tennessee insurrectionists? Jail?

How does that work?;D

Given all your apparent concern about "fakery", how does that apply to the wider GOP relationship with Trump?

Most of them are scathing of him in private, but deathly afraid to say anything in public lest they fall foul of the orange god-king and suffer the fate of Liz Cheney or get yelled at in the airport like Lindsey Graham was after Jan 6 when he had the audacity to offer a mild condemnation of Trump's recklessness and incitement.

How about your latest hero, De Santis, who you're supposedly all in on?

He's the right hard lad when it comes to easy targets like asylum seekers or gay and trans people or young students wearing masks or a progressive DA, but a cowardly mouse who is afraid to go toe to toe with Trump to win a nomination that is (or at least was) there for the taking. It's not like Trump isn't throwing loads of abuse towards him. Where does he rate on your authenticity metre?

We could throw in the Fox News ghouls like Tucker who were trash talking Trump in private conversations but are now back to providing platforms for his insane ramblings and love letters to Xi, Kim and Putin? How about them?
insane ramblings ? Joe is all good though

That's all you pick out?

Ok, Joe is a gaffe machine. He's slowing down with age, but he has made gaffes his entire political life.

Trump, on the other hand, is a self-serving proven liar who gushes admiringly and earnestly about the "total control" violent despots have over their countries and wants to fraudulently bypass or ride roughshod over the democratic processes in his own country to serve his own personal purposes.

There is no comparison.
listen I pick the lesser of 2 evils and for me that's a conservative candidate down any ticket
I have life experience of what one party politics looks like in California and in my opinion the standard and quality of living has dropped significantly since I came here , I need look no further than the once beautiful city of San Francisco and look what the policies implemented by countless democrat politicians have done to it and it's full of homeless, drug addicted people, minorities are priced out of the housing market and crime is rampant, the policies of one party democrat rule ruin's people, communities, cities and the country if allowed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2023, 05:29:08 PM
First, I agree with you on single-party domination. Whether that's Dems or the GOP. It seldom ends well as extremism gets more of a chance at implementation. Its why I despise gerrymandering and am glad that certain states like NY and CA have taken steps to combat it. The NY laws cost the Dems the House this year, but I can live with that. If only the likes of Florida and Wisconsin would follow and fairly represent their people. And its why I voted for someone like Eric Adams for NY mayor when there were plenty more progressive candidates to choose from.

Unfortunately, at the moment, the extremists rule the GOP on a national level. There are exceptions such as certain moderate governors, but on the whole the GOP is little more than a conspiracy-minded personality cult at the moment with little in the way of a platform beyond fighting either made-up or hyped-up culture war targets. The good thing is that it is currently costing them, the effects of gerrymandering notwithstanding. And it will most likely cost them again if they run Trump next year.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 06:08:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2023, 05:29:08 PM
First, I agree with you on single-party domination. Whether that's Dems or the GOP. It seldom ends well as extremism gets more of a chance at implementation. Its why I despise gerrymandering and am glad that certain states like NY and CA have taken steps to combat it. The NY laws cost the Dems the House this year, but I can live with that. If only the likes of Florida and Wisconsin would follow and fairly represent their people. And its why I voted for someone like Eric Adams for NY mayor when there were plenty more progressive candidates to choose from.

Unfortunately, at the moment, the extremists rule the GOP on a national level. There are exceptions such as certain moderate governors, but on the whole the GOP is little more than a conspiracy-minded personality cult at the moment with little in the way of a platform beyond fighting either made-up or hyped-up culture war targets. The good thing is that it is currently costing them, the effects of gerrymandering notwithstanding. And it will most likely cost them again if they run Trump next year.
blah blah blah extremists
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 06:46:28 PM
Biden gets a good welcome over here. Trump couldn't even come out of his resort due to the protests and booing he get. Sorta says who Ireland prefer.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 07:03:00 PM
Meet 2022 REPUBLICAN candidate Joel M. Koskan of North Dakota.

He was just sentenced to 10 YEARS in prison after he plead guilty to 2 counts of Felony Incest with his then 13-year-old stepdaughter.

Koskan was NOT a Drag Queen
Koskan was not transgender
Koskan was not a 'Democrat Groomer'
Koskan was not a Biden supporter

Koskan is simply a straight, white, Republican who is a disgusting pedophile.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 07:26:30 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 06:46:28 PM
Biden gets a good welcome over here. Trump couldn't even come out of his resort due to the protests and booing he get. Sorta says who Ireland prefer.
is Bertie running for president and getting his ass kissed on tv ? I rest my case
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2023, 07:28:37 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 06:46:28 PM
Biden gets a good welcome over here. Trump couldn't even come out of his resort due to the protests and booing he get. Sorta says who Ireland prefer.

Ireland has been historically dominated by two fairly centrist parties. The Dems would not be too out of line with mainstream Irish politics. Outside of the DUP, is there anything even remotely comparable to the current Republican Party on the island of Ireland?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 13, 2023, 07:54:43 PM
The DUP.  Obviously.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on April 13, 2023, 09:22:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2023, 07:28:37 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 06:46:28 PM
Biden gets a good welcome over here. Trump couldn't even come out of his resort due to the protests and booing he get. Sorta says who Ireland prefer.

Ireland has been historically dominated by two fairly centrist parties. The Dems would not be too out of line with mainstream Irish politics. Outside of the DUP, is there anything even remotely comparable to the current Republican Party on the island of Ireland?
A few bucks , other than Gmac and Whitey, who post on GAAboard .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 09:51:53 PM
Lauren Boebert (R) has denied that she previously worked as an unlicensed escort and had two abortions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2023, 10:23:41 PM
Eamonn, leave that kind of shite to Gmac. We all know Boebert is a headcase. No need for that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2023, 10:23:41 PM
Eamonn, leave that kind of shite to Gmac. We all know Boebert is a headcase. No need for that.
I never post anything like that about anyone.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 11:38:41 PM
All I'm saying is she denies it. Fact checkers seem to agree with her, so it's probably not true. It's just a pity that lies coming from the right seem harder to kill. Maybe it's because of the sheer volume of BS they crank out, debunking it all is a time-consuming business.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 11:56:42 PM
Speaking of liars, the $1.6 billion Fox News defamation trial is about to begin. Private text messages from the likes of Tucker Carlson prove beyond all doubt that they knew they were lying but kept cranking out the BS anyway because it was profitable. It's not often a defamation suit goes all the way to trial, so this could be popcorn-worthy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:03:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 13, 2023, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 13, 2023, 10:23:41 PM
Eamonn, leave that kind of shite to Gmac. We all know Boebert is a headcase. No need for that.
I never post anything like that about anyone.

I distinctly recall you pushing the baseless, vindictive rumours about the Paul Pelosi attack, among other things. But if you've turned over a new leaf, so much the better for this discussion thread.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 11:56:42 PM
Speaking of liars, the $1.6 billion Fox News defamation trial is about to begin. Private text messages from the likes of Tucker Carlson prove beyond all doubt that they knew they were lying but kept cranking out the BS anyway because it was profitable. It's not often a defamation suit goes all the way to trial, so this could be popcorn-worthy.

Unfortunately their base doesn't get to hear about it. I hope Dominion doesn't settle, exposes them completely, and takes them to the cleaners.

Irony is that Fox are relying on the very protections that the likes of Trump and DeSantis want overturned.

The other voting machine company is waiting in the wings also.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 11:56:42 PM
Speaking of liars, the $1.6 billion Fox News defamation trial is about to begin. Private text messages from the likes of Tucker Carlson prove beyond all doubt that they knew they were lying but kept cranking out the BS anyway because it was profitable. It's not often a defamation suit goes all the way to trial, so this could be popcorn-worthy.

Unfortunately their base doesn't get to hear about it. I hope Dominion doesn't settle, exposes them completely, and takes them to the cleaners.

Irony is that Fox are relying on the very protections that the likes of Trump and DeSantis want overturned.

The other voting machine company is waiting in the wings also.
speaking of liars what do you make of the intelligence leak ? quite an administration
The adults are back in charge ? Worst administration ever
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2023, 10:36:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 11:56:42 PM
Speaking of liars, the $1.6 billion Fox News defamation trial is about to begin. Private text messages from the likes of Tucker Carlson prove beyond all doubt that they knew they were lying but kept cranking out the BS anyway because it was profitable. It's not often a defamation suit goes all the way to trial, so this could be popcorn-worthy.

Unfortunately their base doesn't get to hear about it. I hope Dominion doesn't settle, exposes them completely, and takes them to the cleaners.

Irony is that Fox are relying on the very protections that the likes of Trump and DeSantis want overturned.

The other voting machine company is waiting in the wings also.
speaking of liars what do you make of the intelligence leak ? quite an administration
The adults are back in charge ? Worst administration ever

1. I don't get the liars reference.

2. What does the leak have to do with the administration? Did they get the military to change how classified information is handled? How did the party in the White House affect or permit this young airman to do what he did?

As usual, I'll not hold my breath waiting for you to answer that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Denn Forever on April 14, 2023, 12:18:46 PM
Could be the over use of 'Contractors' for military roles?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2023, 12:41:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 11:56:42 PM
Speaking of liars, the $1.6 billion Fox News defamation trial is about to begin. Private text messages from the likes of Tucker Carlson prove beyond all doubt that they knew they were lying but kept cranking out the BS anyway because it was profitable. It's not often a defamation suit goes all the way to trial, so this could be popcorn-worthy.

Unfortunately their base doesn't get to hear about it. I hope Dominion doesn't settle, exposes them completely, and takes them to the cleaners.

Irony is that Fox are relying on the very protections that the likes of Trump and DeSantis want overturned.

The other voting machine company is waiting in the wings also.
speaking of liars what do you make of the intelligence leak ? quite an administration
The adults are back in charge ? Worst administration ever

Why was there a tank outside his house when they arrested him? Could have saved embarrassment and waited till he was driving, pulled him over and put the knee into his neck for 'resisting' arrest
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2023, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 14, 2023, 12:18:46 PM
Could be the over use of 'Contractors' for military roles?

The suspect is an airman in the National Guard. Assigned to IT apparently. And cleared to work with this type of classified material.

Reporting so far suggests that while he is a gun enthusiast with alt right leanings, he was doing this to impress a bunch of gamer teenagers on Discord rather than as a whistleblower or for political reasons. My own pre-teen kid is on Discord to discuss Minecraft with his gamer pals.

Of course the half-wit that is Marjorie Taylor Greene has come to his strong defense purely because he comes from a white, christian, gun-loving "patriotic " family.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2023, 12:59:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 14, 2023, 12:18:46 PM
Could be the over use of 'Contractors' for military roles?

The suspect is an airman in the National Guard. Assigned to IT apparently. And cleared to work with this type of classified material.

Reporting so far suggests that while he is a gun enthusiast with alt right leanings, he was doing this to impress a bunch of gamer teenagers on Discord rather than as a whistleblower or for political reasons. My own pre-teen kid is on Discord to discuss Minecraft with his gamer pals.

Of course the half-wit that is Marjorie Taylor Greene has come to his strong defense purely because he comes from a white, christian, gun-loving "patriotic " family.

Was finding it strange that the news was saying he loves guns? Does that help when you get arrested? Strange set up there  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2023, 01:18:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2023, 12:59:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 14, 2023, 12:18:46 PM
Could be the over use of 'Contractors' for military roles?

The suspect is an airman in the National Guard. Assigned to IT apparently. And cleared to work with this type of classified material.

Reporting so far suggests that while he is a gun enthusiast with alt right leanings, he was doing this to impress a bunch of gamer teenagers on Discord rather than as a whistleblower or for political reasons. My own pre-teen kid is on Discord to discuss Minecraft with his gamer pals.

Of course the half-wit that is Marjorie Taylor Greene has come to his strong defense purely because he comes from a white, christian, gun-loving "patriotic " family.

Was finding it strange that the news was saying he loves guns? Does that help when you get arrested? Strange set up there  ;D

It's natural for people to want details of the person and their politics, if any, as it could relate to potential motive.

Not sure how it will affect his arrest and potential prosecution though, beyond the likes of Greene trying to set him up as a noble patriot with the best interests of the country at heart.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:14:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 10:36:31 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2023, 11:56:42 PM
Speaking of liars, the $1.6 billion Fox News defamation trial is about to begin. Private text messages from the likes of Tucker Carlson prove beyond all doubt that they knew they were lying but kept cranking out the BS anyway because it was profitable. It's not often a defamation suit goes all the way to trial, so this could be popcorn-worthy.

Unfortunately their base doesn't get to hear about it. I hope Dominion doesn't settle, exposes them completely, and takes them to the cleaners.

Irony is that Fox are relying on the very protections that the likes of Trump and DeSantis want overturned.

The other voting machine company is waiting in the wings also.
speaking of liars what do you make of the intelligence leak ? quite an administration
The adults are back in charge ? Worst administration ever

1. I don't get the liars reference.

2. What does the leak have to do with the administration? Did they get the military to change how classified information is handled? How did the party in the White House affect or permit this young airman to do what he did?

As usual, I'll not hold my breath waiting for you to answer that.
are us troops on the ground in the Ukraine  ?
Are Ukraine winning the war ?
Every other country wants peace except for this administration (I won't say this country because this administration doesn't represent the views of the country )
They lie about everything
Joe should be impeached about this but it doesn't matter because as I've said hundreds of times he is not in charge , the US position in the world going down the toilet with this regime.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 PM
Peace at what cost?

I notice you're throwing no shade whatsoever at Putin. Did he not start it? Could he not end it today if he turned his tail and withdrew his armies and mercenaries? If the Ukrainians want to sue for peace as things stand, that's up to them, but until that time, I'm perfectly happy for the US to support their defense. Just because you're part of the Putin-loving authoritarian cult, doesn't mean that the majority of people in the US are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 PM
Peace at what cost?

I notice you're throwing no shade whatsoever at Putin. Did he not start it? Could he not end it today if he turned his tail and withdrew his armies and mercenaries? If the Ukrainians want to sue for peace as things stand, that's up to them, but until that time, I'm perfectly happy for the US to support their defense. Just because you're part of the Putin-loving authoritarian cult, doesn't mean that the majority of people in the US are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx)
do you think the lies the administration are telling us have an effect on the poll your showing?
The Facts are that the US administration are stopping peace talks between Ukraine and Russia .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 PM
Peace at what cost?

I notice you're throwing no shade whatsoever at Putin. Did he not start it? Could he not end it today if he turned his tail and withdrew his armies and mercenaries? If the Ukrainians want to sue for peace as things stand, that's up to them, but until that time, I'm perfectly happy for the US to support their defense. Just because you're part of the Putin-loving authoritarian cult, doesn't mean that the majority of people in the US are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx)
do you think the lies the administration are telling us have an effect on the poll your showing?
The Facts are that the US administration are stopping peace talks between Ukraine and Russia .

If those are "the facts", you should have no problem throwing us up a source or two.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 PM
Peace at what cost?

I notice you're throwing no shade whatsoever at Putin. Did he not start it? Could he not end it today if he turned his tail and withdrew his armies and mercenaries? If the Ukrainians want to sue for peace as things stand, that's up to them, but until that time, I'm perfectly happy for the US to support their defense. Just because you're part of the Putin-loving authoritarian cult, doesn't mean that the majority of people in the US are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx)
do you think the lies the administration are telling us have an effect on the poll your showing?
The Facts are that the US administration are stopping peace talks between Ukraine and Russia .

If those are "the facts", you should have no problem throwing us up a source or two.
imagine if Trump was president and this stuff was exposed
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2023, 04:22:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 PM
Peace at what cost?

I notice you're throwing no shade whatsoever at Putin. Did he not start it? Could he not end it today if he turned his tail and withdrew his armies and mercenaries? If the Ukrainians want to sue for peace as things stand, that's up to them, but until that time, I'm perfectly happy for the US to support their defense. Just because you're part of the Putin-loving authoritarian cult, doesn't mean that the majority of people in the US are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx)
do you think the lies the administration are telling us have an effect on the poll your showing?
The Facts are that the US administration are stopping peace talks between Ukraine and Russia .

If those are "the facts", you should have no problem throwing us up a source or two.
imagine if Trump was president and this stuff was exposed

It would be a pretty serious charge.

One in which "the facts" would required some sources.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 10:18:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 04:22:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 PM
Peace at what cost?

I notice you're throwing no shade whatsoever at Putin. Did he not start it? Could he not end it today if he turned his tail and withdrew his armies and mercenaries? If the Ukrainians want to sue for peace as things stand, that's up to them, but until that time, I'm perfectly happy for the US to support their defense. Just because you're part of the Putin-loving authoritarian cult, doesn't mean that the majority of people in the US are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx)
do you think the lies the administration are telling us have an effect on the poll your showing?
The Facts are that the US administration are stopping peace talks between Ukraine and Russia .

If those are "the facts", you should have no problem throwing us up a source or two.
imagine if Trump was president and this stuff was exposed

It would be a pretty serious charge.

One in which "the facts" would required some sources.
what about the whistleblower shouldn't he be protected like all Trump "whistleblowers "
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2023, 10:44:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 10:18:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 04:22:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 PM
Peace at what cost?

I notice you're throwing no shade whatsoever at Putin. Did he not start it? Could he not end it today if he turned his tail and withdrew his armies and mercenaries? If the Ukrainians want to sue for peace as things stand, that's up to them, but until that time, I'm perfectly happy for the US to support their defense. Just because you're part of the Putin-loving authoritarian cult, doesn't mean that the majority of people in the US are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx)
do you think the lies the administration are telling us have an effect on the poll your showing?
The Facts are that the US administration are stopping peace talks between Ukraine and Russia .

If those are "the facts", you should have no problem throwing us up a source or two.
imagine if Trump was president and this stuff was exposed

It would be a pretty serious charge.

One in which "the facts" would required some sources.
what about the whistleblower shouldn't he be protected like all Trump "whistleblowers "

1. Reality Winner got five years, longest sentence imposed to date for this, according to Wikipedia. Is she the "Trump whistleblower " you're referring to?

2. Teixera should be treated the same as others who leaked classified military intelligence documents.

3. Unless things have changed in the reporting, there is no indication that he is a whistleblower, unless trying to impress and inform a tiny group of online teenaged gamers counts as whistleblowing.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2023, 08:14:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2023, 10:44:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 10:18:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 04:22:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 PM
Peace at what cost?

I notice you're throwing no shade whatsoever at Putin. Did he not start it? Could he not end it today if he turned his tail and withdrew his armies and mercenaries? If the Ukrainians want to sue for peace as things stand, that's up to them, but until that time, I'm perfectly happy for the US to support their defense. Just because you're part of the Putin-loving authoritarian cult, doesn't mean that the majority of people in the US are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx)
do you think the lies the administration are telling us have an effect on the poll your showing?
The Facts are that the US administration are stopping peace talks between Ukraine and Russia .

If those are "the facts", you should have no problem throwing us up a source or two.
imagine if Trump was president and this stuff was exposed

It would be a pretty serious charge.

One in which "the facts" would required some sources.
what about the whistleblower shouldn't he be protected like all Trump "whistleblowers "

1. Reality Winner got five years, longest sentence imposed to date for this, according to Wikipedia. Is she the "Trump whistleblower " you're referring to?

2. Teixera should be treated the same as others who leaked classified military intelligence documents.

3. Unless things have changed in the reporting, there is no indication that he is a whistleblower, unless trying to impress and inform a tiny group of online teenaged gamers counts as whistleblowing.
did hero of the left Vindman leak documents?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: clarshack on April 15, 2023, 08:33:53 PM
Maybe this should be in the wtf thread 😂

https://twitter.com/sandraschulze/status/1647278401982697472
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2023, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 15, 2023, 08:33:53 PM
Maybe this should be in the wtf thread 😂

https://twitter.com/sandraschulze/status/1647278401982697472
mayo are f$caked for another 80 years now 😂
Maybe they are ciaran macdonald foot passes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 15, 2023, 09:46:09 PM
Senate Bill 5599.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2023, 12:28:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2023, 08:14:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2023, 10:44:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 10:18:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 04:22:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 14, 2023, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2023, 02:25:16 PM
Peace at what cost?

I notice you're throwing no shade whatsoever at Putin. Did he not start it? Could he not end it today if he turned his tail and withdrew his armies and mercenaries? If the Ukrainians want to sue for peace as things stand, that's up to them, but until that time, I'm perfectly happy for the US to support their defense. Just because you're part of the Putin-loving authoritarian cult, doesn't mean that the majority of people in the US are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx)
do you think the lies the administration are telling us have an effect on the poll your showing?
The Facts are that the US administration are stopping peace talks between Ukraine and Russia .

If those are "the facts", you should have no problem throwing us up a source or two.
imagine if Trump was president and this stuff was exposed

It would be a pretty serious charge.

One in which "the facts" would required some sources.
what about the whistleblower shouldn't he be protected like all Trump "whistleblowers "

1. Reality Winner got five years, longest sentence imposed to date for this, according to Wikipedia. Is she the "Trump whistleblower " you're referring to?

2. Teixera should be treated the same as others who leaked classified military intelligence documents.

3. Unless things have changed in the reporting, there is no indication that he is a whistleblower, unless trying to impress and inform a tiny group of online teenaged gamers counts as whistleblowing.
did hero of the left Vindman leak documents?

Why don't you tell us?

And some sourced information, not your usual, wild, ill-supported accusations.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2023, 10:36:42 PM
Pro-Trump "Stop the Steal" organizer Ali Alexander has apologized after being accused of asking teenagers for dick pics.

In one message, Alexander allegedly complained that a 15-year-old wasn't sending him "Jack off material."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/ali-alexander-apologizes-inappropriate-messages-1234716609/amp/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 18, 2023, 12:25:06 PM
What's the latest on the Murdock empire and the Dominion voting machines court case?

Is there an out of court settlement in the offing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2023, 12:41:37 PM
It starts today.

I guess Fox figures the overall humiliation and even further loss of credibility the revelations will bring are worth it given the chances that they'll beat the case legally, given the very high bar Dominion have to clear with the "actual malice" requirement. Plus, their audience probably won't hear much about it anyway. Or care if they do. Trying to hold onto viewers they were losing to the clown shows of OAN and Newsmax is why Fox went down this particular avenue in the first place.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2023, 04:46:04 PM
BREAKING:  The Fox News / Dominion Trial is officially underway, and the day is already not going well for Fox News.  Twelve jurors have just been seated. The court is now moving to seat the 12 alternate jurors.  Details:

- New details have emerged from former Fox News producer Abby Grossberg, who worked with Tucker Carlson and Maria Bartiromo. (More to come here)

- Multiple reports said that Fox News were the ones pushing for a settlement to avoid the case going to trial. Dominion appears to have refused.

- The trial is moving full stream ahead today.

Let's hope justice and truth prevail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2023, 05:40:01 PM
Fox is not the only one at risk.

I hope those poor Georgia election workers sue The Gateway Pundit sc**bag brothers back into the stone age.

"Rhetorical hyperbole" my arse.

https://missouriindependent.com/2023/04/17/as-fox-news-case-heads-to-trial-far-right-st-louis-site-faces-its-own-defamation-suit/ (https://missouriindependent.com/2023/04/17/as-fox-news-case-heads-to-trial-far-right-st-louis-site-faces-its-own-defamation-suit/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2023, 06:52:15 PM
Ron "won't someone think of the children" DeSantis wants to put a prison beside Disneyworld because he's triggered by some cartoon or something. Chris Christie has this to say about it:

"I don't think Ron DeSantis is a conservative, based on his actions towards Disney. I mean, where are we headed now, that if you express disagreement in this country the government is allowed to punish you?"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 18, 2023, 07:02:48 PM
The censorship boys on here should've worked at twitter
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2023, 07:37:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 18, 2023, 07:02:48 PM
The censorship boys on here should've worked at twitter

Who's getting censored Gmac?

I'll bet you were heart broken when Alex Jones was held accountable for his callous, filthy lies about the six year old victims at Sandy Hook. Was THAT little piece of after-the-fact accountability censorship?

Trump is out today telling Murdoch to lie on the stand about the 2020 election. You think that's ok, that he, the man you're most likely going to vote for in the next election, is still out there pushing extremely damaging, pants-on-fire lies?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 18, 2023, 09:11:30 PM
Fox shit the togs then and have settled 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 18, 2023, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 18, 2023, 09:11:30 PM
Fox shit the togs then and have settled 

And not a mention of it on the Fox News website.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2023, 09:17:39 PM
Probably inevitable given the revelations yet to come.

Wonder what the conditions are? Is an admission of regret or guilt in there? Or did they just throw so much money at it that it will be sealed?

Next up, Smartmatic.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 18, 2023, 09:20:13 PM
$787 million
:)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 18, 2023, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2023, 07:37:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 18, 2023, 07:02:48 PM
The censorship boys on here should've worked at twitter

Who's getting censored Gmac?

I'll bet you were heart broken when Alex Jones was held accountable for his callous, filthy lies about the six year old victims at Sandy Hook. Was THAT little piece of after-the-fact accountability censorship?

Trump is out today telling Murdoch to lie on the stand about the 2020 election. You think that's ok, that he, the man you're most likely going to vote for in the next election, is still out there pushing extremely damaging, pants-on-fire lies?
you ever see me talk about Alex jones  ?
Hillary is still talking about how the election was stolen from her is that disinformation ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 18, 2023, 09:23:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2023, 09:17:39 PMNext up, Smartmatic.

QuoteStatement from Smartmatic lawyer Erik Connolly: "Dominion's litigation exposed some of the misconduct and damage caused by Fox's disinformation campaign. Smartmatic will expose the rest. Smartmatic remains committed to clearing its name, recouping the significant damage done to the company, and holding Fox accountable for undermining democracy."
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 18, 2023, 09:38:19 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 18, 2023, 09:11:30 PM
Fox shit the togs then and have settled

Smerconish said weeks ago that they would settle

Way too much bad stuff was going to come out at trial
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2023, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 18, 2023, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2023, 07:37:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 18, 2023, 07:02:48 PM
The censorship boys on here should've worked at twitter

Who's getting censored Gmac?

I'll bet you were heart broken when Alex Jones was held accountable for his callous, filthy lies about the six year old victims at Sandy Hook. Was THAT little piece of after-the-fact accountability censorship?

Trump is out today telling Murdoch to lie on the stand about the 2020 election. You think that's ok, that he, the man you're most likely going to vote for in the next election, is still out there pushing extremely damaging, pants-on-fire lies?
you ever see me talk about Alex jones  ?
Hillary is still talking about how the election was stolen from her is that disinformation ?

Alex Jones is exactly equivalent to what Fox were doing. You're the one who was whining about censorship.

If Hillary is saying that, then yes. Can't say I've seen Hillary having much of a profile at all or engaging in a never ending very public campaign about it though.

As always, I invite you to back up your claims.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2023, 09:45:12 PM
Quote from: dec on April 18, 2023, 09:20:13 PM
$787 million
:)

Holy f**k!  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 18, 2023, 09:49:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2023, 09:45:12 PM
Quote from: dec on April 18, 2023, 09:20:13 PM
$787 million
:)

Holy f**k!  ;D

I suspect there won't be an on air admission of guilt by Fox and that is the price they were willing to pay to avoid that.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 18, 2023, 09:55:01 PM
Quote from: dec on April 18, 2023, 09:49:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2023, 09:45:12 PM
Quote from: dec on April 18, 2023, 09:20:13 PM
$787 million
:)

Holy f**k!  ;D

I suspect there won't be an on air admission of guilt by Fox and that is the price they were willing to pay to avoid that.

Fox News, in a statement, said it acknowledged "the court's rulings finding certain claims about Dominion to be false

The Dominion spokesman was a little more direct, saying they were caught telling outright lies.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2023, 10:03:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 18, 2023, 09:17:39 PM
Probably inevitable given the revelations yet to come.

Wonder what the conditions are? Is an admission of regret or guilt in there? Or did they just throw so much money at it that it will be sealed?

Next up, Smartmatic.

Quoth CNN:

Smartmatic says its pending case will further expose Fox News' wrongdoing after Dominion settlement
From CNN's Jon Passantino

Smartmatic, the voting technology company that is suing Fox News for $2.7 billion for defamation said its pending case will further expose wrongdoing by the right-wing network, following the last-minute settlement in the case brought by Dominion Voting Systems.

"Dominion's litigation exposed some of the misconduct and damage caused by Fox's disinformation campaign. Smartmatic will expose the rest. Smartmatic remains committed to clearing its name, recouping the significant damage done to the company, and holding Fox accountable for undermining democracy," said a statement from Smartmatic attorney J. Erik Connolly.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2023, 03:30:16 PM
Ron DeSantis ally & GOP donor, Kent Stermon, committed suicide, shortly after the father of a minor he tried to exploit turned down a five-figure hush money deal & reported Stermon to the police.

Jacksonville police say the investigation is still ongoing, but Stermon allegedly had an inappropriate relationship with an underage girl, to whom he offered Taylor Swift concert tickets in exchange for photos of her breasts.

On the plus side, it saves a trial and the girl won't have to be further traumatized.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2023, 03:37:08 PM
The lawsuits aren't over yet. Right wing media is in a bit of trouble.

Dominion is Suing
- Fox News -  Won $787,500,000.00
- NewsMax - pending
- OANN - pending
- Sidney Powell - pending
- Rudy Giuliani - pending
- Mike Lindell - pending
- Patrick Byrne - pending

Smartmatic is suing:
- Fox News - pending
- NewsMax - pending
- OANN - pending
- Sidney Powell - pending
- Rudy Giuliani - pending
- Jeanine Pirro - pending
- Maria Bartiromo - pending
- Lou Dobbs - pending

Lying does not pay.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2023, 05:05:54 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/342204572_1727575304363233_2806713367354249395_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=c1ZUjcanzcYAX8auOzs&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AfCrgmjjDvVu9mVWvFmobspypuDjMrwp00RWqbYC9PWvIA&oe=64457B97)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on April 19, 2023, 05:32:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2023, 05:05:54 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/342204572_1727575304363233_2806713367354249395_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=c1ZUjcanzcYAX8auOzs&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AfCrgmjjDvVu9mVWvFmobspypuDjMrwp00RWqbYC9PWvIA&oe=64457B97)

They did though.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/media/fox-news-media-dominion-voting-systems-reach-agreement-over-defamation-lawsuit.amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/media/fox-news-media-dominion-voting-systems-reach-agreement-over-defamation-lawsuit.amp)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 19, 2023, 07:56:11 PM
How dare Fox mislead their viewers with lies, half truths and unverified allegations

They should really follow the leads of their "peers " in respected publications like The NY Times

https://www.cjr.org/special_report/trumped-up-press-versus-president-ed-note.php
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 19, 2023, 07:57:22 PM
How many lawyers did that laughable article go through before they posted half way down their homepage?

Did they mention it on air?

No apology, no mea culpa, no retractions, no promise to do better, no penalization of their "talent" who were knowingly and maliciously and relentlessly pushing blatant lies at huge cost to the country. Just that the judge found some claims which might not have been true!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 19, 2023, 07:59:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 19, 2023, 07:56:11 PM
How dare Fox mislead their viewers with lies, half truths and unverified allegations

They should really follow the leads of their "peers " in respected publications like The NY Times

https://www.cjr.org/special_report/trumped-up-press-versus-president-ed-note.php

Here we go. Dr. False Equivalency, Ph.D!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: smelmoth on April 19, 2023, 08:50:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2023, 03:37:08 PM
The lawsuits aren't over yet. Right wing media is in a bit of trouble.

Dominion is Suing
- Fox News -  Won $787,500,000.00
- NewsMax - pending
- OANN - pending
- Sidney Powell - pending
- Rudy Giuliani - pending
- Mike Lindell - pending
- Patrick Byrne - pending

Smartmatic is suing:
- Fox News - pending
- NewsMax - pending
- OANN - pending
- Sidney Powell - pending
- Rudy Giuliani - pending
- Jeanine Pirro - pending
- Maria Bartiromo - pending
- Lou Dobbs - pending

Lying does not pay.

You missed the most interesting legal action of them all.

Fox have paid out to Dominion and in all likelihood a bigger sum to Smartmatic. This is going to wipe billions of shareholder value. The shareholders have the right to sue management. That's where the really fun starts as they turn upon each other
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2023, 10:42:24 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 19, 2023, 08:50:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2023, 03:37:08 PM
The lawsuits aren't over yet. Right wing media is in a bit of trouble.

Dominion is Suing
- Fox News -  Won $787,500,000.00
- NewsMax - pending
- OANN - pending
- Sidney Powell - pending
- Rudy Giuliani - pending
- Mike Lindell - pending
- Patrick Byrne - pending

Smartmatic is suing:
- Fox News - pending
- NewsMax - pending
- OANN - pending
- Sidney Powell - pending
- Rudy Giuliani - pending
- Jeanine Pirro - pending
- Maria Bartiromo - pending
- Lou Dobbs - pending

Lying does not pay.

You missed the most interesting legal action of them all.

Fox have paid out to Dominion and in all likelihood a bigger sum to Smartmatic. This is going to wipe billions of shareholder value. The shareholders have the right to sue management. That's where the really fun starts as they turn upon each other

Are you sure? From my googling so far it looks like they don't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 20, 2023, 02:08:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2023, 07:59:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 19, 2023, 07:56:11 PM
How dare Fox mislead their viewers with lies, half truths and unverified allegations

They should really follow the leads of their "peers " in respected publications like The NY Times

https://www.cjr.org/special_report/trumped-up-press-versus-president-ed-note.php

Here we go. Dr. False Equivalency, Ph.D!

Not to mention the Kavanaugh debacle

Several Democratic presidential candidates Started calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Court Justice based on what they read in The NY Times

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/16/new-york-times-brett-kavanaugh-book-1498153

NY Times is no better than Fox News....in fact it's actually worse

They actually won a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Russia Hoax-LOL

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 05:31:38 AM
BREAKING: The county commissioner from Oklahoma who was caught on tape discussing lynching Black people and killing reporters has RESIGNED.

McCurtain County Commissioner Mark Jennings officially turned in his written note of resignation.

In the recording, Jennings appears to complain about not being able to hang Black people, saying: "They got more rights than we got."

More than 100 people gathered outside the McCurtain County Courthouse in Idabel earlier this week, with many of them calling for the sheriff and other county officials to resign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 20, 2023, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 20, 2023, 02:08:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2023, 07:59:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 19, 2023, 07:56:11 PM
How dare Fox mislead their viewers with lies, half truths and unverified allegations

They should really follow the leads of their "peers " in respected publications like The NY Times

https://www.cjr.org/special_report/trumped-up-press-versus-president-ed-note.php

Here we go. Dr. False Equivalency, Ph.D!

Not to mention the Kavanaugh debacle

Several Democratic presidential candidates Started calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Court Justice based on what they read in The NY Times

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/16/new-york-times-brett-kavanaugh-book-1498153

NY Times is no better than Fox News....in fact it's actually worse

They actually won a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Russia Hoax-LOL

Yep, false equivalency from whitey as per usual. No matter what the right does, the left, the Dems and the "mainstream media" are always far, far worse.

And still refusing to acknowledge the very real and pertinent reasons why investigations were required on what connections there could have been between the Trump campaign and Russia.

And neglecting to mention the fact that the Times had to quickly correct the story and issue an apology for the tweet promoting it.

Have Fox issued a retraction or apologized for the Dominion debacle and the damage their false promotion of the election lies did to the country? Have they apologized for their January 6th horseshit, which continues as we speak? For Hannity's on-air harassment of the grieving family of Seth Rich and the libelous insinuations he was making? I could go on...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 20, 2023, 01:16:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 05:31:38 AM
BREAKING: The county commissioner from Oklahoma who was caught on tape discussing lynching Black people and killing reporters has RESIGNED.

McCurtain County Commissioner Mark Jennings officially turned in his written note of resignation.

In the recording, Jennings appears to complain about not being able to hang Black people, saying: "They got more rights than we got."

More than 100 people gathered outside the McCurtain County Courthouse in Idabel earlier this week, with many of them calling for the sheriff and other county officials to resign.

Sure he was "only telling it like it is"!

Apparently blacks and gays and Muslims etc all have "more" rights than poor put upon white Christians. They're a bit like the unionists who whine because Catholics are no longer second class citizens in the north. The granting of equal rights to formerly persecuted minorities always seems to foster false victimhood in those who were part of what was once the dominant majority, as though they still didn't retain at least the same rights as the minorities now get to, subject to backlash, enjoy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 04:35:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2023, 01:16:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 05:31:38 AM
BREAKING: The county commissioner from Oklahoma who was caught on tape discussing lynching Black people and killing reporters has RESIGNED.

McCurtain County Commissioner Mark Jennings officially turned in his written note of resignation.

In the recording, Jennings appears to complain about not being able to hang Black people, saying: "They got more rights than we got."

More than 100 people gathered outside the McCurtain County Courthouse in Idabel earlier this week, with many of them calling for the sheriff and other county officials to resign.

Sure he was "only telling it like it is"!

Apparently blacks and gays and Muslims etc all have "more" rights than poor put upon white Christians. They're a bit like the unionists who whine because Catholics are no longer second class citizens in the north. The granting of equal rights to formerly persecuted minorities always seems to foster false victimhood in those who were part of what was once the dominant majority, as though they still didn't retain at least the same rights as the minorities now get to, subject to backlash, enjoy.

This is a very quotable statement.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 04:50:34 PM
BREAKING: Yesterday multiple Republican lawmakers in Michigan voted to uphold a law that banned unmarried couples from living together.

Below State Senator Thomas Albert argues in favor of the law, claiming that it's better for children to be in a household with married parents. Albert, and other Michigan Republicans also support laws that ban abortions at "all stages of development."

So Albert not only wants to force mothers to have babies they may not be ready for, but he also wants to break up families with caring unmarried parents when they do choose to have babies out of wedlock.

Stop pretending that Republicans actually care about the kids. They care about painting Democrats as murderers for allowing women to have a choice in deciding to abort conscienceless bean-sized fetuses at 6-weeks for reasons that they have no clue about.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 20, 2023, 04:55:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2023, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 20, 2023, 02:08:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2023, 07:59:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 19, 2023, 07:56:11 PM
How dare Fox mislead their viewers with lies, half truths and unverified allegations

They should really follow the leads of their "peers " in respected publications like The NY Times

https://www.cjr.org/special_report/trumped-up-press-versus-president-ed-note.php

Here we go. Dr. False Equivalency, Ph.D!

Not to mention the Kavanaugh debacle

Several Democratic presidential candidates Started calling for the impeachment of a sitting Supreme Court Justice based on what they read in The NY Times

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/16/new-york-times-brett-kavanaugh-book-1498153

NY Times is no better than Fox News....in fact it's actually worse

They actually won a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Russia Hoax-LOL

Yep, false equivalency from whitey as per usual. No matter what the right does, the left, the Dems and the "mainstream media" are always far, far worse.

And still refusing to acknowledge the very real and pertinent reasons why investigations were required on what connections there could have been between the Trump campaign and Russia.

And neglecting to mention the fact that the Times had to quickly correct the story and issue an apology for the tweet promoting it.

Have Fox issued a retraction or apologized for the Dominion debacle and the damage their false promotion of the election lies did to the country? Have they apologized for their January 6th horseshit, which continues as we speak? For Hannity's on-air harassment of the grieving family of Seth Rich and the libelous insinuations he was making? I could go on...

J70

Very few if any reasonable people watch Fox News, let alone believe what's on there

On the other hand, I know Ivy League educated people who swallowed......hook, line and sinker....every mis truth, inaccuracy and lie told by The NY Times and WaPo about Trump and Russia

I also have a friend who, probably once a week, posts something about Brett Kavanaugh which has been thoroughly debunked years ago. This guy has an MBA, finished first in his class and has an engineering degree

I would say the WAPO and NY Times have done as much damage as Fox, because people automatically assume they are telling the truth, whereas people just assume Fox is lying



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 20, 2023, 05:17:39 PM
Ok, I'll play along.

What "lies" did the NY Times and the Washing Post print about Trump and Russia? If they did print any, were they known to be lies at the time? Were the NY Times chatting amongst themselves behind the scenes stating that they knew it was all lies, but they were going to continuously push them anyway for fear of losing their audience?

I don't really care about your MBA friend who's obsessed with Brett Kavanaugh. Nice story, but not sure what relevance that has to anything. Are stories about Kavanaugh prevalent on the news these days?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 20, 2023, 05:19:43 PM
And seriously... "Very few if any reasonable people watch Fox News, let alone believe what's on there"

Are you for real?

Or are you saying that the GOP base vote, especially seniors, are en masse unreasonable?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 20, 2023, 05:54:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 15, 2023, 09:46:09 PM
Senate Bill 5599.
the Washington state bill ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 20, 2023, 06:44:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2023, 05:17:39 PM
Ok, I'll play along.

What "lies" did the NY Times and the Washing Post print about Trump and Russia? If they did print any, were they known to be lies at the time? Were the NY Times chatting amongst themselves behind the scenes stating that they knew it was all lies, but they were going to continuously push them anyway for fear of losing their audience?

I don't really care about your MBA friend who's obsessed with Brett Kavanaugh. Nice story, but not sure what relevance that has to anything. Are stories about Kavanaugh prevalent on the news these days?

Re read what I said

"Mis truths, inaccuracies AND lies" was the term I used-I probably should have included
Omissions

Doesn't have to be a full blown lie to have the same effect

I'm sure I can dig some out ( but I'm not infringe of my computer right now)  but going back to Kavanaugh for just a minute. They told a story about an alleged sexual assault by Kavanaugh at Yale. What they didn't tell you was that the person he supposedly assaulted had zero recollection of the event. Based on this "revelation" you had several presidential candidates calling for his impeachment

In your book is that a lie?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 20, 2023, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2023, 05:17:39 PM
Ok, I'll play along.

What "lies" did the NY Times and the Washing Post print about Trump and Russia? If they did print any, were they known to be lies at the time? Were the NY Times chatting amongst themselves behind the scenes stating that they knew it was all lies, but they were going to continuously push them anyway for fear of losing their audience?

I don't really care about your MBA friend who's obsessed with Brett Kavanaugh. Nice story, but not sure what relevance that has to anything. Are stories about Kavanaugh prevalent on the news these days?


https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/jan/31/columbia-journalism-review-trashes-award-winning-r/


"In January 2018, for example, The New York Times ignored a publicly available document showing that the FBI's lead investigator didn't think, after ten months of inquiry into possible Trump-Russia ties, that there was much there," Mr. Gerth reported. "This omission disserved Times readers. The paper says its reporting was thorough and 'in line with our editorial standards.'"

The report also recounts how The New York Times newsroom was shocked and caught "flat-footed" when special counsel Robert Mueller told Congress that he wouldn't pursue Mr. Trump's ouster. New York Times Executive Editor Dean Baquet's reaction to his staff was, "Holy s—t. Bob Mueller is not going to do it."

CJR's report also was critical of the media's "turbocharged" use of intentionally vague descriptors of anonymous sources such as "government official" or "American official," which he said were often used "to mask congressional leakers."


So I repeat. I have as much faith in Fox News as I do in The NY Times

Both told lies of epic proportions that undermined our democracy

One was very unsophisticated  and obvious, the other more cunning and deceptive

The bottom line is that in both instances, one side believed that a president had somehow cheated in order to win the election and was illegitimate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Puckoon on April 20, 2023, 09:45:38 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on April 20, 2023, 09:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 20, 2023, 04:55:55 PM

J70

Very few if any reasonable people watch Fox News, let alone believe what's on there

On the other hand, I know Ivy League educated people who swallowed......hook, line and sinker....every mis truth, inaccuracy and lie told by The NY Times and WaPo about Trump and Russia

I also have a friend who, probably once a week, posts something about Brett Kavanaugh which has been thoroughly debunked years ago. This guy has an MBA, finished first in his class and has an engineering degree

I would say the WAPO and NY Times have done as much damage as Fox, because people automatically assume they are telling the truth, whereas people just assume Fox is lying

Absolutely incorrect. And unabashed deflection.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2023, 12:08:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 20, 2023, 06:44:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2023, 05:17:39 PM
Ok, I'll play along.

What "lies" did the NY Times and the Washing Post print about Trump and Russia? If they did print any, were they known to be lies at the time? Were the NY Times chatting amongst themselves behind the scenes stating that they knew it was all lies, but they were going to continuously push them anyway for fear of losing their audience?

I don't really care about your MBA friend who's obsessed with Brett Kavanaugh. Nice story, but not sure what relevance that has to anything. Are stories about Kavanaugh prevalent on the news these days?

Re read what I said

"Mis truths, inaccuracies AND lies" was the term I used-I probably should have included
Omissions

Doesn't have to be a full blown lie to have the same effect

I'm sure I can dig some out ( but I'm not infringe of my computer right now)  but going back to Kavanaugh for just a minute. They told a story about an alleged sexual assault by Kavanaugh at Yale. What they didn't tell you was that the person he supposedly assaulted had zero recollection of the event. Based on this "revelation" you had several presidential candidates calling for his impeachment

In your book is that a lie?

Either a pointless lie or an incredibly sloppy omission. Pointless because they were never going to stand over it. Which they didn't. As is usually the case with reputable journalism.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2023, 12:19:06 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 20, 2023, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 20, 2023, 05:17:39 PM
Ok, I'll play along.

What "lies" did the NY Times and the Washing Post print about Trump and Russia? If they did print any, were they known to be lies at the time? Were the NY Times chatting amongst themselves behind the scenes stating that they knew it was all lies, but they were going to continuously push them anyway for fear of losing their audience?

I don't really care about your MBA friend who's obsessed with Brett Kavanaugh. Nice story, but not sure what relevance that has to anything. Are stories about Kavanaugh prevalent on the news these days?


https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/jan/31/columbia-journalism-review-trashes-award-winning-r/


"In January 2018, for example, The New York Times ignored a publicly available document showing that the FBI's lead investigator didn't think, after ten months of inquiry into possible Trump-Russia ties, that there was much there," Mr. Gerth reported. "This omission disserved Times readers. The paper says its reporting was thorough and 'in line with our editorial standards.'"

The report also recounts how The New York Times newsroom was shocked and caught "flat-footed" when special counsel Robert Mueller told Congress that he wouldn't pursue Mr. Trump's ouster. New York Times Executive Editor Dean Baquet's reaction to his staff was, "Holy s—t. Bob Mueller is not going to do it."

CJR's report also was critical of the media's "turbocharged" use of intentionally vague descriptors of anonymous sources such as "government official" or "American official," which he said were often used "to mask congressional leakers."


So I repeat. I have as much faith in Fox News as I do in The NY Times

Both told lies of epic proportions that undermined our democracy

One was very unsophisticated  and obvious, the other more cunning and deceptive

The bottom line is that in both instances, one side believed that a president had somehow cheated in order to win the election and was illegitimate

Your faith is your own business. There is simply no comparison with what Fox did here. The sheer scale of the settlement with Dominion should force you to admit that.

Mueller caught a lot of people out with his timidity. Even then Barr still had to distort what he did find in HIS pre-emotive report and with the redactions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: DrinkingHarp on April 21, 2023, 01:05:06 AM
So much winning from the past administration

https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump-ally-lindell-ordered-pay-5-mln-man-who-disproved-voter-fraud-claims-2023-04-20/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 03:25:41 AM
Every democrat in congress voted to allow biological males play in female sports today
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: blasmere on April 21, 2023, 08:30:57 AM
Which one has more sway on voters NY Times or Fox?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2023, 05:00:47 PM
Quote from: blasmere on April 21, 2023, 08:30:57 AM
Which one has more sway on voters NY Times or Fox?

On swing voters who decide the elections-NY Times

I had forgotten about how the media treated Devon Nunes and vilified him as a crackpot while lionizing Adam Schiff

All these people rejoicing in the Fox Settlement should take a few minutes to educate themselves on what actually happened in the media over the first two years of Trumps presidency.

https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/110281/documents/HHRG-116-JU00-20191204-SD1284.pdf
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 06:07:10 PM
Does the ex CIA director being asked by the Biden campaign to find 50 colleagues to sign a letter saying the hunter laptop story was russian disinformation count as election interference ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2023, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 06:07:10 PM
Does the ex CIA director being asked by the Biden campaign to find 50 colleagues to sign a letter saying the hunter laptop story was russian disinformation count as election interference ?

And some of the Clowns on here still think that the "deep state" is a figment of our inaginations
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 07:10:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 06:07:10 PM
Does the ex CIA director being asked by the Biden campaign to find 50 colleagues to sign a letter saying the hunter laptop story was russian disinformation count as election interference ?

And some of the Clowns on here still think that the "deep state" is a figment of our inaginations
the dumbest smart guys are on here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2023, 07:38:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 05:00:47 PM
Quote from: blasmere on April 21, 2023, 08:30:57 AM
Which one has more sway on voters NY Times or Fox?

On swing voters who decide the elections-NY Times

I had forgotten about how the media treated Devon Nunes and vilified him as a crackpot while lionizing Adam Schiff

All these people rejoicing in the Fox Settlement should take a few minutes to educate themselves on what actually happened in the media over the first two years of Trumps presidency.

https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/110281/documents/HHRG-116-JU00-20191204-SD1284.pdf

I read the Gerth piece you posted yesterday (woke early, so had an hour to spare). He certainly paints a damning picture to some extent, but f**k me does he go easy on Trump himself (nice revisionism with the Comey sacking, for example!) and downplays the very real and legitimate concerns there were about his rhetoric and conduct. Bit of a turnaround from his work on the Clintons back in the day.

Even if everything he alleges and the light he casts it in is true, it still doesn't hold even the tiniest candle to what Fox did in the aftermath of and since the last election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 06:07:10 PM
Does the ex CIA director being asked by the Biden campaign to find 50 colleagues to sign a letter saying the hunter laptop story was russian disinformation count as election interference ?

And some of the Clowns on here still think that the "deep state" is a figment of our inaginations

Right, because there was absolutely zero reason at the time to be suspicious of the laptop!

Good to know you're a "Deep State" enthusiast though. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2023, 08:22:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 06:07:10 PM
Does the ex CIA director being asked by the Biden campaign to find 50 colleagues to sign a letter saying the hunter laptop story was russian disinformation count as election interference ?

And some of the Clowns on here still think that the "deep state" is a figment of our inaginations

Right, because there was absolutely zero reason at the time to be suspicious of the laptop!

Good to know you're a "Deep State" enthusiast though. ;)

Maybe your buddies at The NY Times might win another Pulitzer for their reporting on the Hunter Biden Laptop

https://reason.com/2022/03/17/the-new-york-times-belatedly-admits-the-emails-on-hunter-bidens-abandoned-laptop-are-real-and-newsworthy/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 21, 2023, 11:54:19 PM
What even worse than a president inciting a riot that lead to 3 people dying?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 22, 2023, 12:03:53 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 21, 2023, 11:54:19 PM
What even worse than a president inciting a riot that lead to 3 people dying?


That's up there

You won't find me defending Trump
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2023, 12:06:49 AM
Well he's got to lally up in Miami living the high life. Anybody else been arrested and in jail in the time since it happened.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 08:22:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 06:07:10 PM
Does the ex CIA director being asked by the Biden campaign to find 50 colleagues to sign a letter saying the hunter laptop story was russian disinformation count as election interference ?

And some of the Clowns on here still think that the "deep state" is a figment of our inaginations

Right, because there was absolutely zero reason at the time to be suspicious of the laptop!

Good to know you're a "Deep State" enthusiast though. ;)

Maybe your buddies at The NY Times might win another Pulitzer for their reporting on the Hunter Biden Laptop

https://reason.com/2022/03/17/the-new-york-times-belatedly-admits-the-emails-on-hunter-bidens-abandoned-laptop-are-real-and-newsworthy/

What does any of that have to do with the skepticism about the laptop story at the time Giuliani was shopping it around when even Fox News and the WSJ, never mind the NY Times, refused to break it?

And yeah, we're all aware that the evil NY Times are your primary motivating political influence.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled

Everything the Dems do pales in comparison to Watergate in your eyes.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 24, 2023, 04:40:34 PM
Maybe Tucker can be Trumps running mate in 2024 now that he's gone from Fox
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:47:16 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 24, 2023, 04:40:34 PM
Maybe Tucker can be Trumps running mate in 2024 now that he's gone from Fox

What? :o
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 24, 2023, 04:58:15 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FufWX8cWwAA71MW?format=png&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 24, 2023, 05:04:47 PM
I assume this is Fox blaming Carlson for them having to settle with Dominion.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
dems won't be doing debates as part of primaries wonder why 🤔
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 24, 2023, 05:47:05 PM
Maybe Tucker and Don Lemon (he's been fired too)  can team up together on a podcast now 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
dems won't be doing debates as part of primaries wonder why 🤔

Won't, or don't currently have plans?

Biden is the presumptive nominee if he wants it. Marianne Williamson is not a serious candidate. Neither is RFK Jr. I'm sure if a serious candidate emerges or Biden opts out, plans would change.

You were pushing the Biden = vegetable nonsense during the 2020 election. Biden did just fine in those debates, including the ones with Trump.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:12:32 PM
Where does Tucker go from here?

Could be a serious boost for the likes of Newsmax to eat into the more extreme members of Fox's audience. That fear was one of the primary reasons Fox ended up forking out almost 800 million to Dominion.

Doubt if he'd want to do a weekly type thing on one of the apps as its a much lower profile.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:18:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
dems won't be doing debates as part of primaries wonder why 🤔

Won't, or don't currently have plans?

Biden is the presumptive nominee if he wants it. Marianne Williamson is not a serious candidate. Neither is RFK Jr. I'm sure if a serious candidate emerges or Biden opts out, plans would change.

You were pushing the Biden = vegetable nonsense during the 2020 election. Biden did just fine in those debates, including the ones with Trump.
sure he should be well able to debate them so , RFK can barely speak
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 24, 2023, 06:22:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
dems won't be doing debates as part of primaries wonder why 🤔

For the same reason that the Republicans didn't have primary debates in 2020 or 2004 and Democrats didn't have primary debates in 2012.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:18:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
dems won't be doing debates as part of primaries wonder why 🤔

Won't, or don't currently have plans?

Biden is the presumptive nominee if he wants it. Marianne Williamson is not a serious candidate. Neither is RFK Jr. I'm sure if a serious candidate emerges or Biden opts out, plans would change.

You were pushing the Biden = vegetable nonsense during the 2020 election. Biden did just fine in those debates, including the ones with Trump.
sure he should be well able to debate them so , RFK can barely speak

Why would he bother?

There were a few far more plausible candidates in the GOP primaries in 2020.

Did the RNC hold any debates? If so, did Trump take part in any?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:18:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
dems won't be doing debates as part of primaries wonder why 🤔

Won't, or don't currently have plans?

Biden is the presumptive nominee if he wants it. Marianne Williamson is not a serious candidate. Neither is RFK Jr. I'm sure if a serious candidate emerges or Biden opts out, plans would change.

You were pushing the Biden = vegetable nonsense during the 2020 election. Biden did just fine in those debates, including the ones with Trump.
sure he should be well able to debate them so , RFK can barely speak

Why would he bother?

There were a few far more plausible candidates in the GOP primaries in 2020.

Did the RNC hold any debates? If so, did Trump take part in any?
the dems wouldn't give a platform to a Kennedy ?  why not ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 24, 2023, 06:43:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:35:17 PM
Did the RNC hold any debates? If so, did Trump take part in any?

They did. He didn't.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:45:47 PM
Tucker got under the skin of the regime a bit too much it seems.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:18:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
dems won't be doing debates as part of primaries wonder why 🤔

Won't, or don't currently have plans?

Biden is the presumptive nominee if he wants it. Marianne Williamson is not a serious candidate. Neither is RFK Jr. I'm sure if a serious candidate emerges or Biden opts out, plans would change.

You were pushing the Biden = vegetable nonsense during the 2020 election. Biden did just fine in those debates, including the ones with Trump.
sure he should be well able to debate them so , RFK can barely speak

Why would he bother?

There were a few far more plausible candidates in the GOP primaries in 2020.

Did the RNC hold any debates? If so, did Trump take part in any?
the dems wouldn't give a platform to a Kennedy ?  why not ?

Because they don't feel his politics are in line with the party's, to state the bleeding obvious?

Why didn't the RNC hold debates for Trump's challengers in 2020?

Were you whining about that at the time?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:54:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:45:47 PM
Tucker got under the skin of the regime a bit too much it seems.

That's the Rupert-Lachlan Murdoch imperial regime, feeling a little lighter in the pocket this week, that you're talking about, one assumes?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 24, 2023, 06:43:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:35:17 PM
Did the RNC hold any debates? If so, did Trump take part in any?

They did. He didn't.

Those debates were not RNC hosted. They were private events.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:58:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:18:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
dems won't be doing debates as part of primaries wonder why 🤔

Won't, or don't currently have plans?

Biden is the presumptive nominee if he wants it. Marianne Williamson is not a serious candidate. Neither is RFK Jr. I'm sure if a serious candidate emerges or Biden opts out, plans would change.

You were pushing the Biden = vegetable nonsense during the 2020 election. Biden did just fine in those debates, including the ones with Trump.
sure he should be well able to debate them so , RFK can barely speak

Why would he bother?

There were a few far more plausible candidates in the GOP primaries in 2020.

Did the RNC hold any debates? If so, did Trump take part in any?
the dems wouldn't give a platform to a Kennedy ?  why not ?

Because they don't feel his politics are in line with the party's, to state the bleeding obvious?

Why didn't the RNC hold debates for Trump's challengers in 2020?

Were you whining about that at the time?
no or you either , maybe msnbc never told you ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 24, 2023, 07:51:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 24, 2023, 06:43:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:35:17 PM
Did the RNC hold any debates? If so, did Trump take part in any?

They did. He didn't.

Those debates were not RNC hosted. They were private events.

gotcha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2023, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:58:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:18:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 22, 2023, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 21, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 21, 2023, 11:03:03 PM
Secretary Blinken no less , ! What an evil web they weave

They're a pack of cvnts

Watergate pales in comparison with what they've pulled
they did it to install a Paul von Hindenburg as president while the loons try to destroy the country from the shadows

;D Great stuff Gmac.  ;D
dems won't be doing debates as part of primaries wonder why 🤔

Won't, or don't currently have plans?

Biden is the presumptive nominee if he wants it. Marianne Williamson is not a serious candidate. Neither is RFK Jr. I'm sure if a serious candidate emerges or Biden opts out, plans would change.

You were pushing the Biden = vegetable nonsense during the 2020 election. Biden did just fine in those debates, including the ones with Trump.
sure he should be well able to debate them so , RFK can barely speak

Why would he bother?

There were a few far more plausible candidates in the GOP primaries in 2020.

Did the RNC hold any debates? If so, did Trump take part in any?
the dems wouldn't give a platform to a Kennedy ?  why not ?

Because they don't feel his politics are in line with the party's, to state the bleeding obvious?

Why didn't the RNC hold debates for Trump's challengers in 2020?

Were you whining about that at the time?
no or you either , maybe msnbc never told you ?

Why would I have whined about it when its been routine for decades for there not to be official debates in either party when an incumbent president is going to run again in the absence of a serious challenge?

It didn't even occur to me to even think about the fact that Biden, or Trump, or Obama, or GW Bush etc., etc., etc., didn't face debates in their re-election primaries.

You're the one who brought it up unprompted in your usual piss-weak attempt to score points.

More fool me for responding I guess...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 24, 2023, 07:59:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:54:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:45:47 PM
Tucker got under the skin of the regime a bit too much it seems.

That's the Rupert-Lachlan Murdoch imperial regime, feeling a little lighter in the pocket this week, that you're talking about, one assumes?

Even for people as rich as the Murdochs, three quarter of a billion has to sting a little bit.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: johnnycool on April 25, 2023, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: dec on April 24, 2023, 07:59:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2023, 06:54:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 24, 2023, 06:45:47 PM
Tucker got under the skin of the regime a bit too much it seems.

That's the Rupert-Lachlan Murdoch imperial regime, feeling a little lighter in the pocket this week, that you're talking about, one assumes?

Even for people as rich as the Murdochs, three quarter of a billion has to sting a little bit.

Is that not just the start of it?

Smartmatic up next, no?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 25, 2023, 12:25:24 PM
The rumours are that Carlson wasn't fired for any of his on-air coverage on Dominion or Jan 6 or anything else. He WAS a casualty of the Dominion case discovery process and wider internal fallout, but it was because it revealed some "problematic" views he held on Fox management, Trump and in general, towards women in the work place. Similar to Ailes and O'Reilly before him I guess on the last issue of creating a hostile workplace for women.

Ironically, Don Lemon also went for a view he expressed on women i.e. Nicki Haley, although in his case it was because he made a stupid comment on air.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 25, 2023, 01:13:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 12:25:24 PM
The rumours are that Carlson wasn't fired for any of his on-air coverage on Dominion or Jan 6 or anything else. He WAS a casualty of the Dominion case discovery process and wider internal fallout, but it was because it revealed some "problematic" views he held on Fox management, Trump and in general, towards women in the work place. Similar to Ailes and O'Reilly before him I guess on the last issue of creating a hostile workplace for women.

Ironically, Don Lemon also went for a view he expressed on women i.e. Nicki Haley, although in his case it was because he made a stupid comment on air.

I think Tucker was just a d1ck to everyone and when the texts came out it was the final straw for a lot of people

Don Lemon similarly disliked and from what I've heard over the past 24 hours, not too many sad to see the back of him either
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 25, 2023, 02:38:02 PM
I think to ascend to that level of prominence in a cut-throat industry, you have to be at least a bit of a dick, although that doesn't excuse some of the misogyny we're now hearing about (apparently Carlson and his team were having a debate in front of all the staff prior to a segment about who they'd prefer to sleep with - Gretchen Whitmer or her at-the-time GOP challenger whom they were about to interview on air).

But they're all replaceable. No one is bigger than the organization, as they've just found out.

Wonder what happens to Carlson now? He had huge influence, but so did the likes of O'Reilly and, for a time, Glenn Beck before him.

O'Reilly apparently has a podcast and other things, but his profile is miniscule compared to the one he had when he was on Fox in that 9pm ET slot.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 03:11:15 PM
Who will move on and be a bigger star now don or tucker ? I know who my money would be on .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 25, 2023, 03:45:24 PM
Lemon is a bit of a non-entity. Nowhere near as famous/infamous as Carlson.

And zero influence by comparison. No governors shaping policy or political stunts based on what Lemon has been pushing. No one suing Lemon and CNN based on the spread of unretracted conspiracy theories about their roles in events like January 6.

At least as far as I'm aware. ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 04:33:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 03:45:24 PM
Lemon is a bit of a non-entity. Nowhere near as famous/infamous as Carlson.

And zero influence by comparison. No governors shaping policy or political stunts based on what Lemon has been pushing. No one suing Lemon and CNN based on the spread of unretracted conspiracy theories about their roles in events like January 6.

At least as far as I'm aware. ;)
tucker was not named in any lawsuits against fox , don lawsuits were a little different shall I say
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 25, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Not yet perhaps.

But one victim has been making plenty of noise recently about Carlson's pushing of conspiracy theories against them personally.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363)

Mr Epps. I believe you yourself periodically try to push this one here.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 05:02:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Not yet perhaps.

But one victim has been making plenty of noise recently about Carlson's pushing of conspiracy theories against them personally.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363)

Mr Epps. I believe you yourself periodically try to push this one here.
all bs , cbs 60 minutes and nbc defending the only guy on tape talking about going inside the capitol building who hasn't been charged with a crime, why are regime backed media outlets defending him alone ? Maybe he went to the cult deprogramming counseling that is part of punishment for some offenders.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 25, 2023, 05:38:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 05:02:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Not yet perhaps.

But one victim has been making plenty of noise recently about Carlson's pushing of conspiracy theories against them personally.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363)

Mr Epps. I believe you yourself periodically try to push this one here.
all bs , cbs 60 minutes and nbc defending the only guy on tape talking about going inside the capitol building who hasn't been charged with a crime, why are regime backed media outlets defending him alone ? Maybe he went to the cult deprogramming counseling that is part of punishment for some offenders.

"regime-backed media outlets"?

Do you ever listen to yourself? ;D

Any little thing to grab onto to try to deny what happened that day and the role of your presidential nominee-to-be in orchestrating a vicious attack on democracy.

How many people have been charged with "talking about going inside the capitol building" or even incitement of a riot?

About 2000 people did go in. About half have been charged with various crimes, the most serious of which were assaults on police officers.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 06:22:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 05:38:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 05:02:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Not yet perhaps.

But one victim has been making plenty of noise recently about Carlson's pushing of conspiracy theories against them personally.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363)

Mr Epps. I believe you yourself periodically try to push this one here.
all bs , cbs 60 minutes and nbc defending the only guy on tape talking about going inside the capitol building who hasn't been charged with a crime, why are regime backed media outlets defending him alone ? Maybe he went to the cult deprogramming counseling that is part of punishment for some offenders.

"regime-backed media outlets"?

Do you ever listen to yourself? ;D

Any little thing to grab onto to try to deny what happened that day and the role of your presidential nominee-to-be in orchestrating a vicious attack on democracy.

How many people have been charged with "talking about going inside the capitol building" or even incitement of a riot?

About 2000 people did go in. About half have been charged with various crimes, the most serious of which were assaults on police officers.
incitement of a riot ? isn't that what Trump was impeached for and majority of democrats want him locked up for it . They are regime media
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 25, 2023, 07:03:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 06:22:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 05:38:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 05:02:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Not yet perhaps.

But one victim has been making plenty of noise recently about Carlson's pushing of conspiracy theories against them personally.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363)

Mr Epps. I believe you yourself periodically try to push this one here.
all bs , cbs 60 minutes and nbc defending the only guy on tape talking about going inside the capitol building who hasn't been charged with a crime, why are regime backed media outlets defending him alone ? Maybe he went to the cult deprogramming counseling that is part of punishment for some offenders.

"regime-backed media outlets"?

Do you ever listen to yourself? ;D

Any little thing to grab onto to try to deny what happened that day and the role of your presidential nominee-to-be in orchestrating a vicious attack on democracy.

How many people have been charged with "talking about going inside the capitol building" or even incitement of a riot?

About 2000 people did go in. About half have been charged with various crimes, the most serious of which were assaults on police officers.
incitement of a riot ? isn't that what Trump was impeached for and majority of democrats want him locked up for it . They are regime media

Nah, that was "incitement of insurrection", not a riot. And impeachment charges are not criminal charges. The criminal charges might come yet in the Jack Smith investigation. ;)

Regardless, you didn't answer the question. Were any of the Jan 6 people charged with telling people to enter the Capitol?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 25, 2023, 07:31:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 05:02:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Not yet perhaps.

But one victim has been making plenty of noise recently about Carlson's pushing of conspiracy theories against them personally.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363)

Mr Epps. I believe you yourself periodically try to push this one here.
all bs , cbs 60 minutes and nbc defending the only guy on tape talking about going inside the capitol building who hasn't been charged with a crime, why are regime backed media outlets defending him alone ? Maybe he went to the cult deprogramming counseling that is part of punishment for some offenders.

Epps was an informant of some description

I wouldn't believe one word that comes out of  the FBI as it pertains to him
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 26, 2023, 01:35:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 25, 2023, 07:31:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 05:02:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Not yet perhaps.

But one victim has been making plenty of noise recently about Carlson's pushing of conspiracy theories against them personally.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363)

Mr Epps. I believe you yourself periodically try to push this one here.
all bs , cbs 60 minutes and nbc defending the only guy on tape talking about going inside the capitol building who hasn't been charged with a crime, why are regime backed media outlets defending him alone ? Maybe he went to the cult deprogramming counseling that is part of punishment for some offenders.

Epps was an informant of some description

I wouldn't believe one word that comes out of  the FBI as it pertains to him
they locked up the shaman until the hidden video came out and then released him , how many more are locked up for f all I wonder
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2023, 12:12:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 26, 2023, 01:35:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 25, 2023, 07:31:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 05:02:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Not yet perhaps.

But one victim has been making plenty of noise recently about Carlson's pushing of conspiracy theories against them personally.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363)

Mr Epps. I believe you yourself periodically try to push this one here.
all bs , cbs 60 minutes and nbc defending the only guy on tape talking about going inside the capitol building who hasn't been charged with a crime, why are regime backed media outlets defending him alone ? Maybe he went to the cult deprogramming counseling that is part of punishment for some offenders.

Epps was an informant of some description

I wouldn't believe one word that comes out of  the FBI as it pertains to him
they locked up the shaman until the hidden video came out and then released him , how many more are locked up for f all I wonder

Source?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 26, 2023, 12:17:51 PM
J70-any thoughts on the new mortgage rules where people with higher credit scores pay higher fees and those with lower credit scores pay lower fees
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2023, 12:18:04 PM
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the FBI did have something on Epps and he was an informant and he was "encouraging" others to go inside the building, what does that mean? Does that excuse their subsequent actions? There is a long history of cops and other security forces using informants and undercover agents to infiltrate and prosecute criminal activity. It didn't help the Michigan kidnappers.

If the man who meets me in a dark alley to sell me drugs is an informant or undercover agent, am I now innocent and off the hook? Or let's say a friend of my wife gets into trouble and turns informant, and then entices myself and herself into some dodgy, illegal deal. Is the judge going to dismiss our case? Does our own responsibility and agency go out the window?

Opportunity is not entrapment.

What's the angle here? That 2000 people, including Oath Keepers and Proud Boys who had been planning this stuff, complete with paramilitary tactics and equipment, for weeks, were all hoodwinked the night before and on the day, into invading the Capitol, attacking and seriously injuring cops, and damaging and stealing property along with the way?

Are MAGA types extremely dumb and gullible people who don't know right from wrong?

I don't get it. I mean, I get the attraction of having an excuse that allows you to rationalize and dismiss what they did, but it just doesn't hold water for any honest, semi-intelligent person.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2023, 12:25:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 26, 2023, 12:17:51 PM
J70-any thoughts on the new mortgage rules where people with higher credit scores pay higher fees and those with lower credit scores pay lower fees

Yes.

I've no issue with it. People with lower scores are still going to be paying significantly higher fees than those with higher scores.

Its just that the low rate associated with higher scores is going to be a little larger, and the higher rate associated with lower scores is going to be a little lower. The lower score rate is still way higher than the higher score rate.

At least from what I've read.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 26, 2023, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2023, 12:25:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 26, 2023, 12:17:51 PM
J70-any thoughts on the new mortgage rules where people with higher credit scores pay higher fees and those with lower credit scores pay lower fees

Yes.

I've no issue with it. People with lower scores are still going to be paying significantly higher fees than those with higher scores.

Its just that the low rate associated with higher scores is going to be a little larger, and the higher rate associated with lower scores is going to be a little lower. The lower score rate is still way higher than the higher score rate.

At least from what I've read.

I can see both sides

If you have been fiscally prudent and paid your bills on time why should you be penalized by having to pay a higher rate essentially subsidizing those with lower scores who weren't as careful with their credit score

It's essentially redistribution of wealth

Not everyone who has a low credit score is poor. Some people make very bad decisions and buy cars, houses and boats they really can't afford. The guys who does the financing at the dealership was telling me that you'd be shocked at some of the stuff he sees (in terms of "wealthy" people with bad credit scores"

On the other hand, anything that helps the less well off buy a house is positive for society.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2023, 01:22:30 PM
If I'm understanding it correctly, it basically affects closing costs. A few hundred dollars difference in most cases. Not something to get worked up about in my opinion. Those with lower scores are already getting hit with the much more significant issue of higher interest rates for 15 or 30 years or whatever their term is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 26, 2023, 01:35:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2023, 01:22:30 PM
If I'm understanding it correctly, it basically affects closing costs. A few hundred dollars difference in most cases. Not something to get worked up about in my opinion. Those with lower scores are already getting hit with the much more significant issue of higher interest rates for 15 or 30 years or whatever their term is.

So why, hypothetically, should someone who's made good decisions subsidize the fees of those who've made bad decisions (and I know that not everyone with a low credit score has made bad decisions, but the ones who have, are still being subsidized)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2023, 02:37:23 PM
Have the lower score people been subsidizing the higher score people before this? Is this a zero sum game?

If lower score people were paying lower fee rates compared to higher score people, I could understand, but the actual fee rates for lower scoring people are still significantly higher.

If we are talking about a zero sum game, its like someone whining that they're subsidizing the other person because their portion of the pie dropped from 70% to 65%, whereas the other person's increased from 30% to 35%.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 26, 2023, 02:49:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2023, 02:37:23 PM
Have the lower score people been subsidizing the higher score people before this? Is this a zero sum game?

If lower score people were paying lower fee rates compared to higher score people, I could understand, but the actual fee rates for lower scoring people are still significantly higher.

If we are talking about a zero sum game, its like someone whining that they're subsidizing the other person because their portion of the pie dropped from 70% to 65%, whereas the other person's increased from 30% to 35%.


But they're paying a higher rate for a reason.....greater risk of default


So I know a guy whose credit is shot.....makes well into the  six figures. Bought a house he shouldn't have, went underwater, had to relocate for work and short saled the house.

Why should I pay higher fees to "subsidize" his bad decisions?

BTW-he has a leased BMW and a Mercedes in the driveway. My last Toyota had 287,000 miles on the clock
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 26, 2023, 03:02:26 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/upside-down-mortgage-policy-212fd736

2 additional points

"Those who make down payments of 20% on their homes will pay the highest fees. " (which is insane)

"The biggest problem here is fairness. Taxpayers already subsidize mortgages for low-income borrowers through the Federal Housing Administration"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 26, 2023, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 26, 2023, 02:49:23 PM
But they're paying a higher rate for a reason.....greater risk of default
This change relates to one times fees at the origination point of the mortgages (closing costs), not the mortgage rate that is charged. The mortgage rate will continue to be higher for higher risk borrowers.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 26, 2023, 03:19:30 PM
Quote from: dec on April 26, 2023, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 26, 2023, 02:49:23 PM
But they're paying a higher rate for a reason.....greater risk of default
This change relates to one times fees at the origination point of the mortgages (closing costs), not the mortgage rate that is charged. The mortgage rate will continue to be higher for higher risk borrowers.

My understanding is that on a $400K mortgage it's $40 monthly for the duration of the note
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 26, 2023, 03:20:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 26, 2023, 02:49:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2023, 02:37:23 PM
Have the lower score people been subsidizing the higher score people before this? Is this a zero sum game?

If lower score people were paying lower fee rates compared to higher score people, I could understand, but the actual fee rates for lower scoring people are still significantly higher.

If we are talking about a zero sum game, its like someone whining that they're subsidizing the other person because their portion of the pie dropped from 70% to 65%, whereas the other person's increased from 30% to 35%.


But they're paying a higher rate for a reason.....greater risk of default


So I know a guy whose credit is shot.....makes well into the  six figures. Bought a house he shouldn't have, went underwater, had to relocate for work and short saled the house.

Why should I pay higher fees to "subsidize" his bad decisions?

BTW-he has a leased BMW and a Mercedes in the driveway. My last Toyota had 287,000 miles on the clock

And after this comes in, they'll STILL be paying significantly higher rates.

Do you not think the leased fancy cars and spending and credit history and so on is considered by the banks as part of the whole individual mortgage process and risk assessment.

Sorry, but I honestly don't care about this. And I'm someone with a very healthy credit score. If it provides a tiny bit of assistance to someone less well off trying to get their foot on the ladder, great! We're not talking about the mortgages themselves; this is just savings on closing fees.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 26, 2023, 03:23:26 PM
Quote from: dec on April 26, 2023, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 26, 2023, 02:49:23 PM
But they're paying a higher rate for a reason.....greater risk of default
This change relates to one times fees at the origination point of the mortgages (closing costs), not the mortgage rate that is charged. The mortgage rate will continue to be higher for higher risk borrowers.


You are simply quoting the WSJ editorial which doesn't explain where that number comes from.

Here is a different article from USA Today which has an actual explanation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2023/04/23/mortgage-fee-structure-change-may-2023/11713841002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2023/04/23/mortgage-fee-structure-change-may-2023/11713841002/)

"For example, if you have a score of 659 and are borrowing 75% of the home's value, you'll pay a fee equal to 1.5% of the loan balance. Before these changes, you would have paid a 2.75% fee. On a hypothetical $300,000 loan, that's a difference of $3,750 in closing costs.

On the other end, if you have a credit score of 740 or higher, you would have paid a 0.25% fee on a loan for 75% of your home value before May 1. After that date, you could pay as much as 0.375%. "
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 26, 2023, 03:59:12 PM
Net net, I think it's probably a good thing

But it's an odd way of doing it from my vantage point

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2023, 03:59:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 05:38:04 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 25, 2023, 05:02:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 25, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Not yet perhaps.

But one victim has been making plenty of noise recently about Carlson's pushing of conspiracy theories against them personally.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna76363)

Mr Epps. I believe you yourself periodically try to push this one here.
all bs , cbs 60 minutes and nbc defending the only guy on tape talking about going inside the capitol building who hasn't been charged with a crime, why are regime backed media outlets defending him alone ? Maybe he went to the cult deprogramming counseling that is part of punishment for some offenders.

"regime-backed media outlets"?

Do you ever listen to yourself? ;D

Any little thing to grab onto to try to deny what happened that day and the role of your presidential nominee-to-be in orchestrating a vicious attack on democracy.

How many people have been charged with "talking about going inside the capitol building" or even incitement of a riot?

About 2000 people did go in. About half have been charged with various crimes, the most serious of which were assaults on police officers.
joes cheat sheet  caught on camera today shows the name of fake  journalist and what the fake question is , but no there not regime media
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2023, 10:40:25 AM
Gmac, you're going to have a stroke getting angry at ridiculous, irrelevant nonsense, just because some arsehole on the radio told you to.

WTF is wrong with notes or "cheat sheets"? Especially when you're going to have to talk and provide details about a multitude of topics?

FFS even Trump had to use notes, not least the time he wrote down specific words he could use to sound like a normal human being when talking about a mass shooting. Most people do, maybe freaks like Bill Clinton aside (and I'm sure he had to at times). These are not like debates where you practice for days in each and every possible topic.

Same with the pre-scheduled question. That shit happens all the time too. Especially when there's something specific they want to address. Remember the comically ridiculous questions Trump used to get from that OAN lady?

Do yourself a favour and find something legitimate to get your knickers in a twist about. Cheat notes, pre-selected questions and not scheduling official primary debates on incumbent years are not it (you like Trump saying he'll not be debating at the RNC's debate at the REAGAN PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY because the chairman has connections to the WP? ;D)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2023, 04:52:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2023, 10:40:25 AM
Gmac, you're going to have a stroke getting angry at ridiculous, irrelevant nonsense, just because some arsehole on the radio told you to.

WTF is wrong with notes or "cheat sheets"? Especially when you're going to have to talk and provide details about a multitude of topics?

FFS even Trump had to use notes, not least the time he wrote down specific words he could use to sound like a normal human being when talking about a mass shooting. Most people do, maybe freaks like Bill Clinton aside (and I'm sure he had to at times). These are not like debates where you practice for days in each and every possible topic.

Same with the pre-scheduled question. That shit happens all the time too. Especially when there's something specific they want to address. Remember the comically ridiculous questions Trump used to get from that OAN lady?

Do yourself a favour and find something legitimate to get your knickers in a twist about. Cheat notes, pre-selected questions and not scheduling official primary debates on incumbent years are not it (you like Trump saying he'll not be debating at the RNC's debate at the REAGAN PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY because the chairman has connections to the WP? ;D)
sure it happens all the time ✊
Your as naive as Lois lane
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2023, 05:19:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2023, 10:40:25 AM
Gmac, you're going to have a stroke getting angry at ridiculous, irrelevant nonsense, just because some arsehole on the radio told you to.

WTF is wrong with notes or "cheat sheets"? Especially when you're going to have to talk and provide details about a multitude of topics?

FFS even Trump had to use notes, not least the time he wrote down specific words he could use to sound like a normal human being when talking about a mass shooting. Most people do, maybe freaks like Bill Clinton aside (and I'm sure he had to at times). These are not like debates where you practice for days in each and every possible topic.

Same with the pre-scheduled question. That shit happens all the time too. Especially when there's something specific they want to address. Remember the comically ridiculous questions Trump used to get from that OAN lady?

Do yourself a favour and find something legitimate to get your knickers in a twist about. Cheat notes, pre-selected questions and not scheduling official primary debates on incumbent years are not it (you like Trump saying he'll not be debating at the RNC's debate at the REAGAN PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY because the chairman has connections to the WP? ;D)

Remember when a teleprompter suddenly became an inappropriate tool for a president to use as soon as Obama took office? Apparently it was okay for Reagan to use one though. They've been used by presidents as far back as Lyndon Johnson, FFS.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2023, 05:21:02 PM
I think Gmac needs to crack open a cool Bud Light and relax a wee bit.  8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 27, 2023, 05:23:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2023, 05:21:02 PM
I think Gmac needs to crack open a cool Bud Light and relax a wee bit.  8)

Tut tut. Should have given him a trigger warning before mentioning Bud Light!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2023, 07:22:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2023, 05:21:02 PM
I think Gmac needs to crack open a cool Bud Light and relax a wee bit.  8)
watery piss I'd say your more of a white claw guy
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 27, 2023, 07:55:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2023, 07:22:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2023, 05:21:02 PM
I think Gmac needs to crack open a cool Bud Light and relax a wee bit.  8)
watery piss I'd say your more of a white claw guy

Is that an insult? Not a cool alpha-male drink in the MAGA swamps?

My wife's family enjoys White Claw when we're out west, but it's not something I've ever felt a need to try.

Not much of a drinker myself these days, but I do enjoy an occasional craft beer (low on the hops) or cider.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2023, 08:03:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2023, 07:55:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 27, 2023, 07:22:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 27, 2023, 05:21:02 PM
I think Gmac needs to crack open a cool Bud Light and relax a wee bit.  8)
watery piss I'd say your more of a white claw guy

Is that an insult? Not a cool alpha-male drink in the MAGA swamps?

My wife's family enjoys White Claw when we're out west, but it's not something I've ever felt a need to try.

Not much of a drinker myself these days, but I do enjoy an occasional craft beer (low on the hops) or cider.
haha
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2023, 06:01:42 AM
What do you call a basement full of conservatives?







A whine cellar.  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 02, 2023, 07:34:31 PM
Funny to see irish twitter explode about don jr making a statement about the hate speech bill in Ireland
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on May 02, 2023, 08:20:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 02, 2023, 07:34:31 PM
Funny to see irish twitter explode about don jr making a statement about the hate speech bill in Ireland

Am I mad for thinking there's something very off about it? Prosecuting someone for something that was sent to them by phone and putting the onus on them to prove themselves innocent (not the other way round) is very Orwellian Ministry of Truth like. Can anyone explain it better or what am I missing?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2023, 09:11:30 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 02, 2023, 08:20:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 02, 2023, 07:34:31 PM
Funny to see irish twitter explode about don jr making a statement about the hate speech bill in Ireland

Am I mad for thinking there's something very off about it? Prosecuting someone for something that was sent to them by phone and putting the onus on them to prove themselves innocent (not the other way round) is very Orwellian Ministry of Truth like. Can anyone explain it better or what am I missing?

There are free speech laws in the US that outsiders can fathom at all

https://fee.org/articles/prince-harry-allow-me-to-explain-the-first-amendment/
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2023, 02:36:50 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 02, 2023, 08:20:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 02, 2023, 07:34:31 PM
Funny to see irish twitter explode about don jr making a statement about the hate speech bill in Ireland

Am I mad for thinking there's something very off about it? Prosecuting someone for something that was sent to them by phone and putting the onus on them to prove themselves innocent (not the other way round) is very Orwellian Ministry of Truth like. Can anyone explain it better or what am I missing?

Is someone really going to be prosecuted just for something that was sent to them?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 02:36:50 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 02, 2023, 08:20:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 02, 2023, 07:34:31 PM
Funny to see irish twitter explode about don jr making a statement about the hate speech bill in Ireland

Am I mad for thinking there's something very off about it? Prosecuting someone for something that was sent to them by phone and putting the onus on them to prove themselves innocent (not the other way round) is very Orwellian Ministry of Truth like. Can anyone explain it better or what am I missing?

Is someone really going to be prosecuted just for something that was sent to them?
probably deserves a thread of its own but from what I read misgendering someone will be a crime and punishable by jail time, start deleting guys I mean they them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2023, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 02:36:50 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 02, 2023, 08:20:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 02, 2023, 07:34:31 PM
Funny to see irish twitter explode about don jr making a statement about the hate speech bill in Ireland

Am I mad for thinking there's something very off about it? Prosecuting someone for something that was sent to them by phone and putting the onus on them to prove themselves innocent (not the other way round) is very Orwellian Ministry of Truth like. Can anyone explain it better or what am I missing?

Is someone really going to be prosecuted just for something that was sent to them?
probably deserves a thread of its own but from what I read misgendering someone will be a crime and punishable by jail time, start deleting guys I mean they them

Who did you read?

In what scenario will simply "misgendering someone" result in a jail sentence?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 03, 2023, 04:09:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 03:35:11 PM
from what I read misgendering someone will be a crime and punishable by jail time

That gives us a good indication of the sort of stuff you read.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 04:18:56 PM
I read the bill , hate speech includes gender identity and misgendering
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2023, 04:25:15 PM
Ok, so where does it say simply "misgendering someone" will result in prison?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 04:25:15 PM
Ok, so where does it say simply "misgendering someone" will result in prison?
read the bill
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2023, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 04:25:15 PM
Ok, so where does it say simply "misgendering someone" will result in prison?
read the bill

I did. I did not see any such language or language that could be reasonably assumed to imply what you claim.

I did see this, however...

Protection of freedom of expression
11. For the purposes of this Part, any material or behaviour is not taken to incite violence or hatred against a person or a group of persons on account of their protected characteristics or any of those characteristics solely on the basis that that material or behaviour includes or involves discussion or criticism of matters relating to a protected characteristic.

Seems to be quite a bit of latitude there for good faith discussion or criticism and mistakes in gender identification, contrary to your paranoid hyperbole (assuming you're making good faith statements).

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf (https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 06:22:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 04:25:15 PM
Ok, so where does it say simply "misgendering someone" will result in prison?
read the bill

I did. I did not see any such language or language that could be reasonably assumed to imply what you claim.

I did see this, however...

Protection of freedom of expression
11. For the purposes of this Part, any material or behaviour is not taken to incite violence or hatred against a person or a group of persons on account of their protected characteristics or any of those characteristics solely on the basis that that material or behaviour includes or involves discussion or criticism of matters relating to a protected characteristic.

Seems to be quite a bit of latitude there for good faith discussion or criticism and mistakes in gender identification, contrary to your paranoid hyperbole (assuming you're making good faith statements).

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf (https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf)
is hate speech misgendering someone in the bill ?
What is punishment for hate speech ?
If I said it was a great idea you would probably be against it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on May 03, 2023, 06:23:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 05:36:19 PM
(assuming you're making good faith statements).

You're new here, aren't you.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 03, 2023, 06:32:33 PM
Jordan Peterson was epousing the same bullshit about people going to jail for misgendering in 2017
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 06:41:25 PM
Will people who are called racists , faciists and nazi for no reason other than voting for a political candidate be protected?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2023, 06:46:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 06:22:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 04:25:15 PM
Ok, so where does it say simply "misgendering someone" will result in prison?
read the bill

I did. I did not see any such language or language that could be reasonably assumed to imply what you claim.

I did see this, however...

Protection of freedom of expression
11. For the purposes of this Part, any material or behaviour is not taken to incite violence or hatred against a person or a group of persons on account of their protected characteristics or any of those characteristics solely on the basis that that material or behaviour includes or involves discussion or criticism of matters relating to a protected characteristic.

Seems to be quite a bit of latitude there for good faith discussion or criticism and mistakes in gender identification, contrary to your paranoid hyperbole (assuming you're making good faith statements).

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf (https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf)
is hate speech misgendering someone in the bill ?
What is punishment for hate speech ?
If I said it was a great idea you would probably be against it

Gmac, I posted the link to the bill.

Go ahead and point us to where it says merely "misgendering" someone is hate speech.

The reason I so often oppose what you claim is because your claims are so often nonsensical.

If you're right and can back it up, I'll accept that. But I'm not just taking your claim at face value.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2023, 06:55:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 06:41:25 PM
Will people who are called racists , faciists and nazi for no reason other than voting for a political candidate be protected?

Will people who are called libtards, marxists, mentally disordered (as in your own "liberalism is a mental disorder ") and pinko commies?

Are political views protected characteristics like race, age, sexual orientation, colour etc?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on May 03, 2023, 11:45:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 06:46:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 06:22:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 04:25:15 PM
Ok, so where does it say simply "misgendering someone" will result in prison?
read the bill

I did. I did not see any such language or language that could be reasonably assumed to imply what you claim.

I did see this, however...

Protection of freedom of expression
11. For the purposes of this Part, any material or behaviour is not taken to incite violence or hatred against a person or a group of persons on account of their protected characteristics or any of those characteristics solely on the basis that that material or behaviour includes or involves discussion or criticism of matters relating to a protected characteristic.

Seems to be quite a bit of latitude there for good faith discussion or criticism and mistakes in gender identification, contrary to your paranoid hyperbole (assuming you're making good faith statements).

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf (https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf)
is hate speech misgendering someone in the bill ?
What is punishment for hate speech ?
If I said it was a great idea you would probably be against it

Gmac, I posted the link to the bill.

Go ahead and point us to where it says merely "misgendering" someone is hate speech.

The reason I so often oppose what you claim is because your claims are so often nonsensical.

If you're right and can back it up, I'll accept that. But I'm not just taking your claim at face value.

Top of page 7
"gender" means the gender of a person or the gender which a person expresses as
the person's preferred gender or with which the person identifies and includes
transgender and a gender other than those of male and female,



So we have established that a person's perceived gender is a protected characteristic under this bill. Now look at section 7....


the person does so with intent to incite violence or hatred against such a person or
group of persons on account of those characteristics or any of those
characteristics or being reckless as to whether such violence or hatred is thereby
incited


So recklessness is enough to break the law, not just intentional. The punishment is on the next page...


A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
(a) on summary conviction, to a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not
exceeding 12 months or both, or
(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5
years or both.



It's actually mental this has been allowed to pass.


Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on May 04, 2023, 09:23:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 03, 2023, 11:45:07 PM


It's actually mental this has been allowed to pass.

We're being governed by Facebook ethics.

I wonder is there anyone who doesn't possess material that could get them convicted?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2023, 11:25:09 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 03, 2023, 11:45:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 06:46:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 06:22:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 04:25:15 PM
Ok, so where does it say simply "misgendering someone" will result in prison?
read the bill

I did. I did not see any such language or language that could be reasonably assumed to imply what you claim.

I did see this, however...

Protection of freedom of expression
11. For the purposes of this Part, any material or behaviour is not taken to incite violence or hatred against a person or a group of persons on account of their protected characteristics or any of those characteristics solely on the basis that that material or behaviour includes or involves discussion or criticism of matters relating to a protected characteristic.

Seems to be quite a bit of latitude there for good faith discussion or criticism and mistakes in gender identification, contrary to your paranoid hyperbole (assuming you're making good faith statements).

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf (https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf)
is hate speech misgendering someone in the bill ?
What is punishment for hate speech ?
If I said it was a great idea you would probably be against it

Gmac, I posted the link to the bill.

Go ahead and point us to where it says merely "misgendering" someone is hate speech.

The reason I so often oppose what you claim is because your claims are so often nonsensical.

If you're right and can back it up, I'll accept that. But I'm not just taking your claim at face value.

Top of page 7
"gender" means the gender of a person or the gender which a person expresses as
the person's preferred gender or with which the person identifies and includes
transgender and a gender other than those of male and female,



So we have established that a person's perceived gender is a protected characteristic under this bill. Now look at section 7....


the person does so with intent to incite violence or hatred against such a person or
group of persons on account of those characteristics or any of those
characteristics or being reckless as to whether such violence or hatred is thereby
incited


So recklessness is enough to break the law, not just intentional. The punishment is on the next page...


A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
(a) on summary conviction, to a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not
exceeding 12 months or both, or
(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5
years or both.



It's actually mental this has been allowed to pass.
The trans lobby bought the legislation
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on May 04, 2023, 11:54:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 06:41:25 PM
Will people who are called racists , faciists and nazi for no reason other than voting for a political candidate be protected?

Not all people who voted for Trump are racists... but all racists voted for Trump.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2023, 12:26:35 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 03, 2023, 11:45:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 06:46:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 06:22:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 03, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 03, 2023, 04:25:15 PM
Ok, so where does it say simply "misgendering someone" will result in prison?
read the bill

I did. I did not see any such language or language that could be reasonably assumed to imply what you claim.

I did see this, however...

Protection of freedom of expression
11. For the purposes of this Part, any material or behaviour is not taken to incite violence or hatred against a person or a group of persons on account of their protected characteristics or any of those characteristics solely on the basis that that material or behaviour includes or involves discussion or criticism of matters relating to a protected characteristic.

Seems to be quite a bit of latitude there for good faith discussion or criticism and mistakes in gender identification, contrary to your paranoid hyperbole (assuming you're making good faith statements).

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf (https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2022/105/eng/ver_b/b105b22d.pdf)
is hate speech misgendering someone in the bill ?
What is punishment for hate speech ?
If I said it was a great idea you would probably be against it

Gmac, I posted the link to the bill.

Go ahead and point us to where it says merely "misgendering" someone is hate speech.

The reason I so often oppose what you claim is because your claims are so often nonsensical.

If you're right and can back it up, I'll accept that. But I'm not just taking your claim at face value.

Top of page 7
"gender" means the gender of a person or the gender which a person expresses as
the person's preferred gender or with which the person identifies and includes
transgender and a gender other than those of male and female,



So we have established that a person's perceived gender is a protected characteristic under this bill. Now look at section 7....


the person does so with intent to incite violence or hatred against such a person or
group of persons on account of those characteristics or any of those
characteristics or being reckless as to whether such violence or hatred is thereby
incited


So recklessness is enough to break the law, not just intentional. The punishment is on the next page...


A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
(a) on summary conviction, to a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not
exceeding 12 months or both, or
(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5
years or both.



It's actually mental this has been allowed to pass.

Sorry, but using that to justify what Gmac is claiming is complete nonsense.

"Recklessness" is an act along the lines of Paisley inciting loyalist mobs back in the day or Trump inciting the January 6 attack on the Capitol. Paisley might not have directly and literally told them to head out and burn catholic houses, but he did everything short of that in riling up hatred and apocalyptic fear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2023, 12:45:05 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on May 04, 2023, 09:23:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 03, 2023, 11:45:07 PM


It's actually mental this has been allowed to pass.

We're being governed by Facebook ethics.

I wonder is there anyone who doesn't possess material that could get them convicted?

You better finish your bunker and lock yourself in before the woke mob arrives.

Although that won't protect you from paranoid delusions.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on May 04, 2023, 12:47:40 PM
The recklessness bit is irrelevant to Gmacs point though. It's just an extra bit that makes the whole bill even more draconian.
Do you really not see the issue with this bill? Will it take the first prosecution for you to see it?

Theres a reason why liberals were hesitant about this kind of legislation for so long.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2023, 01:03:19 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 04, 2023, 12:47:40 PM
The recklessness bit is irrelevant to Gmacs point though. It's just an extra bit that makes the whole bill even more draconian.
Do you really not see the issue with this bill? Will it take the first prosecution for you to see it?

Theres a reason why liberals were hesitant about this kind of legislation for so long.

You're the one who focused on recklessness.

Recklessness has legal precedent behind it in most places. If you go set a match to someone's house to cause property damage and you end up killing someone who you didn't realize was there and whom you didn't intend to hurt, you're still going to be held criminally liable for that death because it was easily foreseeable that your actions could endanger someone's life.

With that out of the way, I see nothing in this bill to support Gmac's contention that someone is going to go to prison or even be bothered by the justice system for the simple act of misgendering someone.

If I'm mistaken, please explain.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on May 04, 2023, 01:21:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 01:03:19 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 04, 2023, 12:47:40 PM
The recklessness bit is irrelevant to Gmacs point though. It's just an extra bit that makes the whole bill even more draconian.
Do you really not see the issue with this bill? Will it take the first prosecution for you to see it?

Theres a reason why liberals were hesitant about this kind of legislation for so long.

You're the one who focused on recklessness.

Recklessness has legal precedent behind it in most places. If you go set a match to someone's house to cause property damage and you end up killing someone who you didn't realize was there and whom you didn't intend to hurt, you're still going to be held criminally liable for that death because it was easily foreseeable that your actions could endanger someone's life.

With that out of the way, I see nothing in this bill to support Gmac's contention that someone is going to go to prison or even be bothered by the justice system for the simple act of misgendering someone.

If I'm mistaken, please explain.

You are mistaken, its literally there in black and white if you scroll up to my post.
"The preferred gender to which the person identifies" is a protected class.
If you cannot see how misgendering someone does not come into this i can't be bothered talking about it anymore. You will never see it and are the only person here trying to make that point.
I'm away to do some work. Good luck!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2023, 01:51:08 PM
The whole point of my exchange with Gmac  was that he was claiming that the mere act of misgendering someone could result in prison time. The criminal charges and prison stuff is what we were discussing, NOT the inclusion of gender identity among the protected characteristics.
   
In order for someone to have a credible case brought against them that they are engaging in hate speech or directly or recklessly inciting violence against someone on account of their gender identity, their sexual orientation, their religion, their race, you're going to have to have a lot more going on that just someone mistakenly calling someone else by the wrong pronoun. The other protected characteristics have been there for at least 30 years in Ireland, and there have been 1-2 cases per year in all that time. Yet we've heard plenty about the abuse of people of colour on the playing fields, including GAA fields.

As I pointed out, the act, in section 11, even carves out an exception for good faith debate and discussion, so no one is being muzzled on that front.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 03:14:31 PM
Play along with mental illness or we jail you
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: smelmoth on May 04, 2023, 04:10:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 01:51:08 PM
The whole point of my exchange with Gmac  was that he was claiming that the mere act of misgendering someone could result in prison time. The criminal charges and prison stuff is what we were discussing, NOT the inclusion of gender identity among the protected characteristics.
   
In order for someone to have a credible case brought against them that they are engaging in hate speech or directly or recklessly inciting violence against someone on account of their gender identity, their sexual orientation, their religion, their race, you're going to have to have a lot more going on that just someone mistakenly calling someone else by the wrong pronoun. The other protected characteristics have been there for at least 30 years in Ireland, and there have been 1-2 cases per year in all that time. Yet we've heard plenty about the abuse of people of colour on the playing fields, including GAA fields.

As I pointed out, the act, in section 11, even carves out an exception for good faith debate and discussion, so no one is being muzzled on that front.

Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 03:14:31 PM
Play along with mental illness or we jail you

One of these posters is engaging in reasoned debate. The other is a fool

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 04:16:50 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 04, 2023, 04:10:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 01:51:08 PM
The whole point of my exchange with Gmac  was that he was claiming that the mere act of misgendering someone could result in prison time. The criminal charges and prison stuff is what we were discussing, NOT the inclusion of gender identity among the protected characteristics.
   
In order for someone to have a credible case brought against them that they are engaging in hate speech or directly or recklessly inciting violence against someone on account of their gender identity, their sexual orientation, their religion, their race, you're going to have to have a lot more going on that just someone mistakenly calling someone else by the wrong pronoun. The other protected characteristics have been there for at least 30 years in Ireland, and there have been 1-2 cases per year in all that time. Yet we've heard plenty about the abuse of people of colour on the playing fields, including GAA fields.

As I pointed out, the act, in section 11, even carves out an exception for good faith debate and discussion, so no one is being muzzled on that front.

Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 03:14:31 PM
Play along with mental illness or we jail you

One of these posters is engaging in reasoned debate. The other is a fool
j70 I think you should report him for abuse .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2023, 05:07:21 PM
The big question is who wrote the legislation.
Trans is a culture war between trans people and women. Women are being oppressed .
And they can't accept trans ideology .Bringing this into the law is wrong.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 05:19:11 PM
There was 70% negative feedback on this in an independent study, so the question is why push ahead with it , the answer is the government in Ireland and around the world don't want any dissension to their policies whether it be trans , climate change, immigration, Ukraine, lockdowns and the policies associated with them , brand everyone far right who dissents .
Show me the man and I'll show you the crime
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2023, 05:29:42 PM
Bringing what, exactly, into law is wrong?

Do you lads think trans people should be fair game for abuse and targeting purely on account of the way they identify themselves? Their status means they're not worthy of respect and dignity? What's the difference between targeting an individual because they're trans and targeting them because they're black or gay or Muslim?

The law still allows you to debate and express your opinion that you disagree with transsexuality.

And judging by the debate going on here, I'd be skeptical about how much these in that 70% poll actually knew about the law.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2023, 05:41:28 PM
Let's put it this way: when's the last time someone in Ireland (or the US) was arrested for saying "I think homosexuality is wrong/an abomination "?

Has it ever happened?

It's been a protected characteristic for quite a while now.

Most intelligent people would just say "f**k off bigot" or something to that effect.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2023, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 05:41:28 PM
Let's put it this way: when's the last time someone in Ireland (or the US) was arrested for saying "I think homosexuality is wrong/an abomination "?

Has it ever happened?

It's been a protected characteristic for quite a while now.

Most intelligent people would just say "f**k off bigot" or something to that effect.
That assumes good faith ongoing.
Trans people may be more litigious. They use bad faith more often. Why should the people be exposed to this ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2023, 06:17:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2023, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 05:41:28 PM
Let's put it this way: when's the last time someone in Ireland (or the US) was arrested for saying "I think homosexuality is wrong/an abomination "?

Has it ever happened?

It's been a protected characteristic for quite a while now.

Most intelligent people would just say "f**k off bigot" or something to that effect.
That assumes good faith ongoing.
Trans people may be more litigious. They use bad faith more often. Why should the people be exposed to this ?

Trans people use bad faith more often??

They may be more litigious??
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2023, 08:21:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 05:29:42 PM
Bringing what, exactly, into law is wrong?

Do you lads think trans people should be fair game for abuse and targeting purely on account of the way they identify themselves? Their status means they're not worthy of respect and dignity? What's the difference between targeting an individual because they're trans and targeting them because they're black or gay or Muslim?

The law still allows you to debate and express your opinion that you disagree with transsexuality.

And judging by the debate going on here, I'd be skeptical about how much these in that 70% poll actually knew about the law.

What's your definition of abuse?

There's a hullabaloo in my town where conservative parents are trying to have a book removed from the school library. The book, a graphic novel, gives detailed instructions on how to shove a dildo up your arse, and the book is available to 12 year olds

The people who are objecting to the book are being accused of cancelling, intimidating, threatening, nullifying  and promoting violence and death on trans youth.......by objecting to a frickin book.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 06:17:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2023, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 05:41:28 PM
Let's put it this way: when's the last time someone in Ireland (or the US) was arrested for saying "I think homosexuality is wrong/an abomination "?

Has it ever happened?

It's been a protected characteristic for quite a while now.

Most intelligent people would just say "f**k off bigot" or something to that effect.
That assumes good faith ongoing.
Trans people may be more litigious. They use bad faith more often. Why should the people be exposed to this ?

Trans people use bad faith more often??

They may be more litigious??
if I told you 2/3 years ago that you could lose your job for calling a biological man a man and not playing the pronoun game would you have believed me ? Doesn't take long to escalate
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 08:36:48 PM
Meanwhile joe has us on the cusp of ww3
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on May 04, 2023, 08:46:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 08:36:48 PM
Meanwhile joe has us on the cusp of ww3
Are you just another useless idiot who peddles random idiotic kremlin botisms or just someone afflicted with an uncontrollable anti -Biden tic syndrome?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on May 04, 2023, 11:33:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 06:17:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2023, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 05:41:28 PM
Let's put it this way: when's the last time someone in Ireland (or the US) was arrested for saying "I think homosexuality is wrong/an abomination "?

Has it ever happened?

It's been a protected characteristic for quite a while now.

Most intelligent people would just say "f**k off bigot" or something to that effect.
That assumes good faith ongoing.
Trans people may be more litigious. They use bad faith more often. Why should the people be exposed to this ?

Trans people use bad faith more often??

They may be more litigious??
if I told you 2/3 years ago that you could lose your job for calling a biological man a man and not playing the pronoun game would you have believed me ? Doesn't take long to escalate

Exactly. The more you give 'em, they more they want.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on May 04, 2023, 11:44:35 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 04, 2023, 08:46:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 08:36:48 PM
Meanwhile joe has us on the cusp of ww3
Are you just another useless idiot who peddles random idiotic kremlin botisms or just someone afflicted with an uncontrollable anti -Biden tic syndrome?

Ah, right - so Biden has it under control? Phew. We can all sleep easy now. Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2023, 11:13:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2023, 08:21:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 05:29:42 PM
Bringing what, exactly, into law is wrong?

Do you lads think trans people should be fair game for abuse and targeting purely on account of the way they identify themselves? Their status means they're not worthy of respect and dignity? What's the difference between targeting an individual because they're trans and targeting them because they're black or gay or Muslim?

The law still allows you to debate and express your opinion that you disagree with transsexuality.

And judging by the debate going on here, I'd be skeptical about how much these in that 70% poll actually knew about the law.

What's your definition of abuse?

There's a hullabaloo in my town where conservative parents are trying to have a book removed from the school library. The book, a graphic novel, gives detailed instructions on how to shove a dildo up your arse, and the book is available to 12 year olds

The people who are objecting to the book are being accused of cancelling, intimidating, threatening, nullifying  and promoting violence and death on trans youth.......by objecting to a frickin book.

Cool story.

Relevance to anything I said?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2023, 11:19:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2023, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 06:17:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2023, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2023, 05:41:28 PM
Let's put it this way: when's the last time someone in Ireland (or the US) was arrested for saying "I think homosexuality is wrong/an abomination "?

Has it ever happened?

It's been a protected characteristic for quite a while now.

Most intelligent people would just say "f**k off bigot" or something to that effect.
That assumes good faith ongoing.
Trans people may be more litigious. They use bad faith more often. Why should the people be exposed to this ?

Trans people use bad faith more often??

They may be more litigious??
if I told you 2/3 years ago that you could lose your job for calling a biological man a man and not playing the pronoun game would you have believed me ? Doesn't take long to escalate

No, what you describe ("not playing the pronoun game with a biological man") sounds like bringing your personal political opinions into work and intentionally treating a colleague with contempt and hostility to make some kind of point instead of behaving professionally and respectfully.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 08, 2023, 06:21:08 PM
Are there really 700k people ready to rush the border this week ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2023, 08:34:05 PM
Trump to pay $5m damages
The jury has awarded E Jean Carroll a total of $5m (£4m) in damages for battery and defamation by Donald Trump.
This is the first time a US president has been found liable of sexual assault. He wasn't found guilty of rape.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65502076

Lets see the follow up to this, apart from anything else it would cause other women to come out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 09, 2023, 10:24:36 PM
Twice impeached, election-denying, despot-wannabe, racist sex offender.

He's racking them up.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 09, 2023, 10:28:12 PM
Anywhere else, outside a 3rd world country or Russia, Trump would be damaged goods, in America with all their morality in the mid west, they certain do irony as they vote for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 09, 2023, 10:38:27 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 09, 2023, 10:28:12 PM
Anywhere else, outside a 3rd world country or Russia, Trump would be damaged goods, in America with all their morality in the mid west, they certain do irony as they vote for him.

Not really-they just hate the Democrats and all they stand for with a passion

Let's say, back in the day, Gerry Adam's sexually assaulted someone would Nationalists in the North have voted for Ian Paisley ? (Assuming he was still alive)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 09, 2023, 10:50:08 PM
but whatabout
but whatabout
but whatabout


it's all you have left now
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 09, 2023, 11:08:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 09, 2023, 10:38:27 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 09, 2023, 10:28:12 PM
Anywhere else, outside a 3rd world country or Russia, Trump would be damaged goods, in America with all their morality in the mid west, they certain do irony as they vote for him.

Not really-they just hate the Democrats and all they stand for with a passion

Let's say, back in the day, Gerry Adam's sexually assaulted someone would Nationalists in the North have voted for Ian Paisley ? (Assuming he was still alive)

There would not have been an option to reject Adams and go with someone else?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on May 09, 2023, 11:15:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 09, 2023, 10:38:27 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 09, 2023, 10:28:12 PM
Anywhere else, outside a 3rd world country or Russia, Trump would be damaged goods, in America with all their morality in the mid west, they certain do irony as they vote for him.

Not really-they just hate the Democrats and all they stand for with a passion

Let's say, back in the day, Gerry Adam's sexually assaulted someone would Nationalists in the North have voted for Ian Paisley ? (Assuming he was still alive)
Hmm,  absurd brainless strawman argument whataboutery.

It was revealed during the proceedings that Trump implicated  himself,  one of his defenses was that 'she was not his type',  however when presented with a photo of her at his disposition, he remarked that this was a  photo of his first wife.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 09, 2023, 11:39:11 PM
A conviction in New York means nothing now same as dc
Activists judges and juries
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 09, 2023, 11:50:00 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 09, 2023, 10:50:08 PM
but whatabout
but whatabout
but whatabout


it's all you have left now

I'm deadly serious

With Michele O Neil having gone to the coronation, would disgruntled Republicans now vote for a Unionist candidate?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2023, 12:29:49 AM
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

No one is saying Republicans have to vote for either Trump or a Dem. They have plenty of non-sex offender options even among the MAGA shower and 18 months to choose one.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 10, 2023, 02:25:03 AM
what was that line he had about shooting someone on 5th Ave, and Republicans would still vote for him?  This thread is proving him right.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 04:05:15 AM
Trump trump Trump meanwhile 700k illegal immigrants ready to storm the border ,
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 10, 2023, 04:14:50 AM
Storming the border; youre' hilarious.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 04:19:20 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 10, 2023, 04:14:50 AM
Storming the border; youre' hilarious.
mayorkas should be on trial
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2023, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 10, 2023, 02:25:03 AM
what was that line he had about shooting someone on 5th Ave, and Republicans would still vote for him?  This thread is proving him right.

Well a jury just found him liable for other vile stuff he did on Fifth Avenue and it probably won't cost him a Republican vote.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 10, 2023, 01:54:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 10, 2023, 02:25:03 AM
what was that line he had about shooting someone on 5th Ave, and Republicans would still vote for him?  This thread is proving him right.

Well a jury just found him liable for other vile stuff he did on Fifth Avenue and it probably won't cost him a Republican vote.

Trump is a disgrace and should now be unelectable, but he won't be

Here's why-according to a Trump supporter I spoke with this morning

(1) Does anyone actually think Trump can get a fair trial in NY?

(2) Just look at all the hoaxes and stunts the Democrats have pulled since Trump entered public life! This is just another attempt to take him down

(3) If this is the new standard for precluding someone from office, then similar accusations against Biden should also preclude him from holding office.

(4) E Jean Carroll has made 20 rape accusations over the years-(I can't verify that and have looked high and low) but they told me it came from a reliable source-LOL
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2023, 02:53:56 PM
1.   So if Trump couldn't get a fair trial, why was he not held liable for rape? Apparently that made the trial, according to some on the right, a "big win" for Trump. Your "Trump supporter" (let's call him your "friend" for brevity) doesn't think Trump's past statements, his own self-damaging deposition, failure to testify and failure to call any defending witnesses whatsoever were telling in any way? Carroll herself didn't make a good case? It's all about biased liberal hatred?
I think your friend is projecting.

2.   What "hoaxes" and "stunts" in particular is your friend upset about? Is he or she perfectly comfortable with Trump's very well documented corruption, racism, misogyny, despotic tendencies, election denialism, the long line of women with standing accusations of varying seriousness on sexual assault? Or are all the legitimate concerns about the man and his conduct and character all a liberal hoax?

3.   In what way are the "similar accusations" against Biden equivalent to Carroll's? Regardless, this case is merely the latest in a long, long list of issues, any of which on their own, have ended numerous political careers in the past and will in the future. That your friend chooses to double down on a shameless sc**bag says a lot about him or her.

4.   20 rape charges that haven't been mentioned anywhere in the blanket coverage of Carroll, but come from a reliable source? Now your friend is really, desperately digging deep to rationalize their unconditional and unbreakable support of this utter thug.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 10, 2023, 06:48:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 02:53:56 PM
1.   So if Trump couldn't get a fair trial, why was he not held liable for rape? Apparently that made the trial, according to some on the right, a "big win" for Trump. Your "Trump supporter" (let's call him your "friend" for brevity) doesn't think Trump's past statements, his own self-damaging deposition, failure to testify and failure to call any defending witnesses whatsoever were telling in any way? Carroll herself didn't make a good case? It's all about biased liberal hatred?
I think your friend is projecting.

2.   What "hoaxes" and "stunts" in particular is your friend upset about? Is he or she perfectly comfortable with Trump's very well documented corruption, racism, misogyny, despotic tendencies, election denialism, the long line of women with standing accusations of varying seriousness on sexual assault? Or are all the legitimate concerns about the man and his conduct and character all a liberal hoax?

3.   In what way are the "similar accusations" against Biden equivalent to Carroll's? Regardless, this case is merely the latest in a long, long list of issues, any of which on their own, have ended numerous political careers in the past and will in the future. That your friend chooses to double down on a shameless sc**bag says a lot about him or her.

4.   20 rape charges that haven't been mentioned anywhere in the blanket coverage of Carroll, but come from a reliable source? Now your friend is really, desperately digging deep to rationalize their unconditional and unbreakable support of this utter thug.

People believe whatever suits their narrative

You and some of the other posters here believed (and still believe) the entirety of the Russia Hoax and also believe that the Clinton campaign had nothing to do with it
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2023, 06:57:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 10, 2023, 06:48:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 02:53:56 PM
1.   So if Trump couldn't get a fair trial, why was he not held liable for rape? Apparently that made the trial, according to some on the right, a "big win" for Trump. Your "Trump supporter" (let's call him your "friend" for brevity) doesn't think Trump's past statements, his own self-damaging deposition, failure to testify and failure to call any defending witnesses whatsoever were telling in any way? Carroll herself didn't make a good case? It's all about biased liberal hatred?
I think your friend is projecting.

2.   What "hoaxes" and "stunts" in particular is your friend upset about? Is he or she perfectly comfortable with Trump's very well documented corruption, racism, misogyny, despotic tendencies, election denialism, the long line of women with standing accusations of varying seriousness on sexual assault? Or are all the legitimate concerns about the man and his conduct and character all a liberal hoax?

3.   In what way are the "similar accusations" against Biden equivalent to Carroll's? Regardless, this case is merely the latest in a long, long list of issues, any of which on their own, have ended numerous political careers in the past and will in the future. That your friend chooses to double down on a shameless sc**bag says a lot about him or her.

4.   20 rape charges that haven't been mentioned anywhere in the blanket coverage of Carroll, but come from a reliable source? Now your friend is really, desperately digging deep to rationalize their unconditional and unbreakable support of this utter thug.

People believe whatever suits their narrative

You and some of the other posters here believed (and still believe) the entirety of the Russia Hoax and also believe that the Clinton campaign had nothing to do with it

What a pile of utter horseshit.

Our posting history is thoroughly documented and recorded by the forum admin. If what you claim is true, it should be easy for you to prove.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:19:33 PM
Biden crime family completely exposed in congress today , same day santos is arrested over $1200 this regime needs to be ousted
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:32:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:19:33 PM
Biden crime family completely exposed in congress today , same day santos is arrested over $1200 this regime needs to be ousted

What crimes have been exposed?

As opposed to sleazy family members cashing in legally?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:39:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:32:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:19:33 PM
Biden crime family completely exposed in congress today , same day santos is arrested over $1200 this regime needs to be ousted

What crimes have been exposed?

As opposed to sleazy family members cashing in legally?
what business are the bidens in  ? Can someone tell me
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:39:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:32:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:19:33 PM
Biden crime family completely exposed in congress today , same day santos is arrested over $1200 this regime needs to be ousted

What crimes have been exposed?

As opposed to sleazy family members cashing in legally?
what business are the bidens in  ? Can someone tell me

You're the one saying it's criminal, so I thought you'd know. ;)

As I've said here numerous times, I'll be first in line to vote to block friends, acquaintances and donors of politicians from trading on access. Until then, unless some criminal acts are in question, spare me the crocodile tears. This type of sleaze is a feature, not a bug, of American politics, all across the board.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2023, 08:53:19 PM
2 interesting videos

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/05/04/what-the-fed-is-trying-to-do-is-difficult-and-may-not-be-working-says-roger-ferguson.html

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/05/03/jay-powell-may-have-to-raise-rates-8-10-percent-to-fight-inflation-says-sen-john-kennedy.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 10, 2023, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:39:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:32:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:19:33 PM
Biden crime family completely exposed in congress today , same day santos is arrested over $1200 this regime needs to be ousted

What crimes have been exposed?

As opposed to sleazy family members cashing in legally?
what business are the bidens in  ? Can someone tell me

You're the one saying it's criminal, so I thought you'd know. ;)

As I've said here numerous times, I'll be first in line to vote to block friends, acquaintances and donors of politicians from trading on access. Until then, unless some criminal acts are in question, spare me the crocodile tears. This type of sleaze is a feature, not a bug, of American politics, all across the board.

LOL

Why would they hire a drug addict/alcoholic to consult on things he knows nothing about?

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 10, 2023, 10:36:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 10, 2023, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:39:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:32:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:19:33 PM
Biden crime family completely exposed in congress today , same day santos is arrested over $1200 this regime needs to be ousted

What crimes have been exposed?

As opposed to sleazy family members cashing in legally?
what business are the bidens in  ? Can someone tell me

You're the one saying it's criminal, so I thought you'd know. ;)

As I've said here numerous times, I'll be first in line to vote to block friends, acquaintances and donors of politicians from trading on access. Until then, unless some criminal acts are in question, spare me the crocodile tears. This type of sleaze is a feature, not a bug, of American politics, all across the board.

LOL

Why would they hire a drug addict/alcoholic to consult on things he knows nothing about?

And the rest?

Gmac is going on about the Biden crime family. Are you fine with the rest of them?

"LOL"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 10, 2023, 11:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 10:36:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 10, 2023, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:39:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 10, 2023, 08:32:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 08:19:33 PM
Biden crime family completely exposed in congress today , same day santos is arrested over $1200 this regime needs to be ousted

What crimes have been exposed?

As opposed to sleazy family members cashing in legally?
what business are the bidens in  ? Can someone tell me

You're the one saying it's criminal, so I thought you'd know. ;)

As I've said here numerous times, I'll be first in line to vote to block friends, acquaintances and donors of politicians from trading on access. Until then, unless some criminal acts are in question, spare me the crocodile tears. This type of sleaze is a feature, not a bug, of American politics, all across the board.

LOL

Why would they hire a drug addict/alcoholic to consult on things he knows nothing about?

And the rest?

Gmac is going on about the Biden crime family. Are you fine with the rest of them?

"LOL"


None of them should be doing it but Hunter Biden is a totally unique situation.

He's getting paid millions to "consult" (while a full time addict/alcoholic)  on topics he knows nothing about from our adversaries
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 11:59:08 PM
Tre POTUS is a compromised lemon and is/was a front for his family shaking down countries and businesses and a front for the looney left in the democrat party who pretend he is in charge and has an opinion on policy decisions when the man can't put two thoughts together.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 11, 2023, 12:05:45 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 10, 2023, 11:59:08 PM
Tre POTUS is a compromised lemon and is/was a front for his family shaking down countries and businesses and a front for the looney left in the democrat party who pretend he is in charge and has an opinion on policy decisions when the man can't put two thoughts together.

Make sure you fight the good fight and pull the lever for the racist, child trafficking, coup-attempting sex offender Gmac. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:16:16 AM
Russia collusion was a load of crap but anyone with half a brain and some clear thinking knew that .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:16:16 AM
Russia collusion was a load of crap but anyone with half a brain and some clear thinking knew that .

Sure... there was no smoke whatsoever.

Meanwhile you're continually on here hyping every half-baked, wild conspiracy theory that hits the fever swamps.

"Clear thinking "! ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:16:16 AM
Russia collusion was a load of crap but anyone with half a brain and some clear thinking knew that .

Sure... there was no smoke whatsoever.

Meanwhile you're continually on here hyping every half-baked, wild conspiracy theory that hits the fever swamps.

"Clear thinking "! ;D
im 100% sure I saw  Adam Schiff and Eric swalwell on tv several times saying they had evidence that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the election, these guys and Hillary need to answer for their crimes . 6 months ! That's the difference between a conspiracy theory and a proven fact .
I seem to be on the facts side more often than not
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: omochain on May 16, 2023, 12:35:18 AM
And how did you come to that conclusion? Did Durham present any evidence in his $7million report to back up his claims?
Look, I feel sorry for you that you feel the need to lap up all the BS that your silo drowns in. As I advised before in the past; you need to go for a long walk on the BayLands. Deep breathing would help too ;)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:44:55 AM
Quote from: omochain on May 16, 2023, 12:35:18 AM
And how did you come to that conclusion? Did Durham present any evidence in his $7million report to back up his claims?
Look, I feel sorry for you that you feel the need to lap up all the BS that your silo drowns in. As I advised before in the past; you need to go for a long walk on the BayLands. Deep breathing would help too ;)
keep reading The NY Times
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2023, 12:59:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:16:16 AM
Russia collusion was a load of crap but anyone with half a brain and some clear thinking knew that .


Of course it was

Anyone with 2 brain cells to run together knew that

But Trump only has himself to blame about Mueller......Sessions was (and is) a complete clown and painted himself into a corner. He doesn't have a paper or electronic calendar where he tracks who he's met with???

Flynn-same thing. Comey admitted that if he showed up in the early days of the Obama admin to quiz someone without an attorney present, he'd have been laughed out the door.

If you're a clown, you surround yourself by clowns

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 01:01:49 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:16:16 AM
Russia collusion was a load of crap but anyone with half a brain and some clear thinking knew that .

Sure... there was no smoke whatsoever.

Meanwhile you're continually on here hyping every half-baked, wild conspiracy theory that hits the fever swamps.

"Clear thinking "! ;D
im 100% sure I saw  Adam Schiff and Eric swalwell on tv several times saying they had evidence that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the election, these guys and Hillary need to answer for their crimes . 6 months ! That's the difference between a conspiracy theory and a proven fact .
I seem to be on the facts side more often than not

Someone should keep a tally. ;D

But the fact is most people stick to fairly plausible, mainstream stories and coverage, whereas you resurrect the thread regularly with poorly based, wild, ludicrously biased, partisan speculation. And then have the brass neck to lecture the rest of us about "clear thinking" and intelligence. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 01:05:00 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2023, 12:59:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:16:16 AM
Russia collusion was a load of crap but anyone with half a brain and some clear thinking knew that .


Of course it was

Anyone with 2 brain cells to run together knew that

But Trump only has himself to blame about Mueller......Sessions was (and is) a complete clown and painted himself into a corner. He doesn't have a paper or electronic calendar where he tracks who he's met with???

Flynn-same thing. Comey admitted that if he showed up in the early days of the Obama admin to quiz someone without an attorney present, he'd have been laughed out the door.

If you're a clown, you surround yourself by clowns
Trump thought Manhattan real estate was a dirty game he got an education in DC , not sure if he's learned either .
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 01:09:37 AM
For those with short memories, the GOP-lead Senate committee found that Russia HAD interfered in the 2016 election. As for collusion smoke, there was Trump's campaign chairman who got into major trouble for his ties to Russian intelligence, there was the Trump Tower meeting, there was Stone working with Assange on the emails, there was/is Trump's servile relationship with Putin. Afterwards there was Trump obstructing justice every step of the way as the investigations did get underway and declining to be deposed due to right media warnings about perjury traps. This stuff wasn't dreamt up out of whole cloth like certain individuals would have you believe.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 01:13:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2023, 12:59:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:16:16 AM
Russia collusion was a load of crap but anyone with half a brain and some clear thinking knew that .


Of course it was

Anyone with 2 brain cells to run together knew that

But Trump only has himself to blame about Mueller......Sessions was (and is) a complete clown and painted himself into a corner. He doesn't have a paper or electronic calendar where he tracks who he's met with???

Flynn-same thing. Comey admitted that if he showed up in the early days of the Obama admin to quiz someone without an attorney present, he'd have been laughed out the door.

If you're a clown, you surround yourself by clowns

Leaving the brain cell issue aside, if the rest of what you say is true, maybe its a result of never having been held accountable for anything he ever did in his life and, when little people like small business men tried, having the money to litigate them to the poor house so he wouldn't ever have to face any music.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2023, 01:14:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 01:09:37 AM
For those with short memories, the GOP-lead Senate committee found that Russia HAD interfered in the 2016 election. As for collusion smoke, there was Trump's campaign chairman who got into major trouble for his ties to Russian intelligence, there was the Trump Tower meeting, there was Stone working with Assange on the emails, there was/is Trump's servile relationship with Putin. Afterwards there was Trump obstructing justice every step of the way as the investigations did get underway and declining to be deposed due to right media warnings about perjury traps. This stuff wasn't dreamt up out of whole cloth like certain individuals would have you believe.

Blah blah blah

Russia Russia Russia

A bunch of frigging crap
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 01:16:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2023, 01:14:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 01:09:37 AM
For those with short memories, the GOP-lead Senate committee found that Russia HAD interfered in the 2016 election. As for collusion smoke, there was Trump's campaign chairman who got into major trouble for his ties to Russian intelligence, there was the Trump Tower meeting, there was Stone working with Assange on the emails, there was/is Trump's servile relationship with Putin. Afterwards there was Trump obstructing justice every step of the way as the investigations did get underway and declining to be deposed due to right media warnings about perjury traps. This stuff wasn't dreamt up out of whole cloth like certain individuals would have you believe.

Blah blah blah

Russia Russia Russia

A bunch of frigging crap

8)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2023, 01:26:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 01:13:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2023, 12:59:47 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 12:16:16 AM
Russia collusion was a load of crap but anyone with half a brain and some clear thinking knew that .


Of course it was

Anyone with 2 brain cells to run together knew that

But Trump only has himself to blame about Mueller......Sessions was (and is) a complete clown and painted himself into a corner. He doesn't have a paper or electronic calendar where he tracks who he's met with???

Flynn-same thing. Comey admitted that if he showed up in the early days of the Obama admin to quiz someone without an attorney present, he'd have been laughed out the door.

If you're a clown, you surround yourself by clowns

Leaving the brain cell issue aside, if the rest of what you say is true, maybe its a result of never having been held accountable for anything he ever did in his life and, when little people like small business men tried, having the money to litigate them to the poor house so he wouldn't ever have to face any music.

2 things are completely separate

If you read the Michael Lewis book about the shambolic transition, it was clear he had people in positions of power who were under qualified, inexperienced and generally clueless

A bunch of slick Ivy League educated career FBI/DOJ attorney types rang rings around these people.

Comeys comment about Flynn told me everything i needed to hear....and he fvckin laughed about doing it

I remember where I was when Al Franken was grilling sessions during his confirmation hearing and thinking at the time, that there must have  been meetings with "Russians" that hadn't been disclosed and the Democrats knew about them
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 01:27:27 AM
Obama , John Brennan , comey  , Loretta lynch were in on it fro the start . Shocking
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 10:33:22 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 01:27:27 AM
Obama , John Brennan , comey  , Loretta lynch were in on it fro the start . Shocking

So what are the "facts" in this statement?

What exactly does "in on it from the start" mean?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2023, 11:11:10 AM
So the FBI had proof that the Clinton campaign was going to "tie" Trump to Russia in an effort to distract from the e-mail problem yet her campaign manager Marc Elias declined to be interviewed

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 16, 2023, 12:40:07 PM
Rudy's some buck judging by the lawsuit filed yesterday.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on May 16, 2023, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 01:16:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2023, 01:14:18 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 01:09:37 AM
For those with short memories, the GOP-lead Senate committee found that Russia HAD interfered in the 2016 election. As for collusion smoke, there was Trump's campaign chairman who got into major trouble for his ties to Russian intelligence, there was the Trump Tower meeting, there was Stone working with Assange on the emails, there was/is Trump's servile relationship with Putin. Afterwards there was Trump obstructing justice every step of the way as the investigations did get underway and declining to be deposed due to right media warnings about perjury traps. This stuff wasn't dreamt up out of whole cloth like certain individuals would have you believe.

Blah blah blah

Russia Russia Russia

A bunch of frigging crap

8)
Even  Prigozhin, the founder of the Russian bot farm in St. Petersburg, admitted the massive interference in support of Trump in 2016 and will do so again. For now the Kremlin bot goal is 'to get the Republican base clamouring for a drawdown in U.S. support for Ukraine'. Whitey and Gmac being fully paid up idiots aboard that Kremlin bot.

Sam Greene, a professor of Russian politics  in UK considers this tactic to be
'a tall order considering  half of that base want to bash Biden for supporting Ukraine, the other half for not supporting Ukraine enough'.

The only serious effective tactic left for Russia's bot farms are to get fully behind Trump's election campaign.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 02:35:48 PM
So you have intelligence agencies interfering in 2016 with the Russia hoax and subsequently sabotaging 3 years of Trumps presidency dealing with fallout from said hoax then 2020 you have 51 high up current and former intelligence agents signing a fake letter saying the hunter biden laptop was  Russian disinformation and so were the contents which implied the bidens are involved in all sorts of criminal activity , the 2020 election may well have been stolen and the Jan 6 *insurrection* was an intelligence operation from the jump to entrap and remove trump from the scene permanently , doesn't seem like a huge jump anymore
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2023, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 02:35:48 PM
So you have intelligence agencies interfering in 2016 with the Russia hoax and subsequently sabotaging 3 years of Trumps presidency dealing with fallout from said hoax then 2020 you have 51 high up current and former intelligence agents signing a fake letter saying the hunter biden laptop was  Russian disinformation and so were the contents which implied the bidens are involved in all sorts of criminal activity , the 2020 election may well have been stolen and the Jan 6 *insurrection* was an intelligence operation from the jump to entrap and remove trump from the scene permanently , doesn't seem like a huge jump anymore

We have the deep state putting their thumb on the scale for the  Democratic candidate  in 2 consecutive Presidential elections. 

I'm not at all shocked that hard core right wingers decided to take matters into their own hands on January 6th given what has happened
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 04:29:20 PM
I ask, once again, where the actual Russian interference and connections to the Trump campaign fits into your "narrative"?

No red flags in any of the following? There was never anything whatsoever to see here?

The Committee found that the Russian government engaged in an aggressive, multi-faceted effort to influence, or attempt to influence, the outcome of the 2016 presidential election.

WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian influence campaign and very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort.

The FBI gave the Steele Dossier unjustified credence, based on an incomplete understanding of Steele's past reporting record. The FBI used the dossier in a FISA application and renewals, and advocated for it to be included in the Intelligence Community Assessment before taking the necessary steps to validate assumptions about Steele's credibility. 

The FBI lacked a formal or considered process for escalating their warnings about the Democratic National Committee (DNC) hack within the organization of the DNC.

The Committee assesses that at least two participants in a June 9, 2016, meeting with Trump Campaign officials, Natalia Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akhmetshin, have significant connections to the Russian government, including the Russian intelligence services.  The Committee, however, found no reliable evidence that information of benefit to the Campaign was transmitted at the meeting, or that then-candidate Trump had foreknowledge of the meeting.

The Committee found no evidence that anyone associated with the Trump Campaign had any substantive private conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the April 27, 2016, Trump speech held at the Mayflower Hotel.

Paul Manafort's presence on the Trump Campaign and proximity to then-Candidate Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over, and acquire confidential information on, the Trump Campaign.

George Papadopoulos was not a witting cooptee of the Russian intelligence services, but nonetheless presented a prime intelligence target and potential vector for malign Russian influence.

Russia took advantage of members of the Transition Team's relative inexperience in government, opposition to Obama Administration policies, and Trump's desire to deepen ties with Russia to pursue unofficial channels through which Russia could conduct diplomacy.

Or leaving all that aside, you see absolutely no reason why there was such skepticism about the laptop at the time? You know more than the NYT, the WSJ, even Fox News news side, who wouldn't touch what Giuliani was selling before he finally got the NY Post to bite? The same Giuliani who stated, publicly, that there was a 50% chance that he was being played?

And seriously whitey, you, who appear to be fairly intelligent, now trying to justify, from their perspective, a violent, deadly riot that was directly inspired and fomented by a president attempting to steal a national election?

Pathetic.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 05:14:19 PM
Joe spoke at a black college on Saturday about white supremacy being the biggest threat to America then magically the next day a hundred guys show and march in Washington DC from a new group called  patriot front all with faces covered and sunglasses on , it looked completely staged to go along with narrative .  How dumb do they think people are
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 05:19:46 PM
Keep those "facts" and "clear thinking" coming Gmac. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 16, 2023, 05:58:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 05:19:46 PM
Keep those "facts" and "clear thinking" coming Gmac. ;D
cnn and msnbc  broadcasted lies for 5/6 years to help destroy a president do you still watch ?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 06:33:55 PM
This is why you cannot be taken seriously.

1.   Assuming for the sake of argument that losing an election is being "taken down", Trump wasn't taken down by anyone or anything other than his own policies, rhetoric and lies. People were sick to the back teeth of his poisonous circus act, including (just from 2020!) his naked attempts, before and after the election, to steal it; his politicization of the pandemic; and his racist, reactionary response to the George Floyd tragedy. So sick, in fact, that they were willing to settle for an old moderate, amicable politician who couldn't get within an asses roar of the presidency on multiple previous occasions when he was much more vital. Biden was Anybody Other Than Trump. And he will be again if the right insists on trying to foist that utter sc**bag and his "retribution" tour back onto the nation.

2.   You lecture others on "lies" on the part of CNN and MSNBC while the right wing, especially Fox News, have literally just been (very expensively) exposed before the world as cynical hucksters who are more concerned with feeding right wing paranoia to preserve their audience than in reporting news and facts. And when you are literally pushing paranoid nonsense about a gang of white supremacists marching in DC in an attempt to downplay the real threat from this movement a week and a year on from mass murders carried out by their fellow travelers. All because you find it politically inconvenient that they exist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2023, 06:36:29 PM
J70

You can keep twisting yourself in circles all days making excuses for the FBI.

The bottom line is on face value while there may have been some "legitimate" initial suspicions (and that's one heck of a stretch I'm making to appease you) of contact, when exculpatory evidence presented itself  the FBI either ignored, downplayed or flat out buried it to keep the investigation going

Meanwhile the intelligence agencies actually knew and had proof that the Clinton campaign were embarking on a distraction campaign to tie Trump to Russia
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 06:53:27 PM
How was it a stretch to think there might have been fire behind all that smoke?

As usual, you ascribe the worst possible interpretation and motives to the Dems or anything you perceive as sympathetic to them, justifiably or not, while treating the right with kid gloves.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on May 16, 2023, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 06:53:27 PM
How was it a stretch to think there might have been fire behind all that smoke?

As usual, you ascribe the worst possible interpretation and motives to the Dems or anything you perceive as sympathetic to them, justifiably or not, while treating the right with kid gloves.

I'm not ascribing anything to them

They hatched and executed a plan aided and abetted by the FBI and their Pulitzer winning friends in the  media

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2023, 07:22:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 16, 2023, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2023, 06:53:27 PM
How was it a stretch to think there might have been fire behind all that smoke?

As usual, you ascribe the worst possible interpretation and motives to the Dems or anything you perceive as sympathetic to them, justifiably or not, while treating the right with kid gloves.

I'm not ascribing anything to them

They hatched and executed a plan aided and abetted by the FBI and their Pulitzer winning friends in the  media

;D ;D ;D

Get some help.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gmac on May 17, 2023, 12:04:30 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 16, 2023, 12:40:07 PM
Rudy's some buck judging by the lawsuit filed yesterday.
with screenshots from the borat movie included as evidence of what he was doing
Where is the case ? If it's NY chalk him down as guilty
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on May 17, 2023, 01:16:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 17, 2023, 12:04:30 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 16, 2023, 12:40:07 PM
Rudy's some buck judging by the lawsuit filed yesterday.
with screenshots from the borat movie included as evidence of what he was doing
Where is the case ? If it's NY chalk him down as guilty

WTF is wrong with you? Always with the paranoid persecution complex.

You do realize this is a civil case?

Unlike his other issues in Georgia.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2023, 01:49:06 AM
Trump indicted on 7 charges relating to Presidential documents. Hopefully, he'll finally get his comeuppance and end up in prison.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 09, 2023, 02:54:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2023, 01:49:06 AM
Trump indicted on 7 charges relating to Presidential documents. Hopefully, he'll finally get his comeuppance and end up in prison.

I was talking to someone a few months ago who has one of the highest level security clearances and he said it was mind boggling what Trump did. While not a Trump supporter, he would be somewhat conservative

FWIW....he said that Hillary should also have been prosecuted for what she did with her server
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 07:43:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2023, 02:54:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2023, 01:49:06 AM
Trump indicted on 7 charges relating to Presidential documents. Hopefully, he'll finally get his comeuppance and end up in prison.

I was talking to someone a few months ago who has one of the highest level security clearances and he said it was mind boggling what Trump did. While not a Trump supporter, he would be somewhat conservative

FWIW....he said that Hillary should also have been prosecuted for what she did with her server

And the wee dig at the end  ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 09, 2023, 09:06:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 07:43:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2023, 02:54:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2023, 01:49:06 AM
Trump indicted on 7 charges relating to Presidential documents. Hopefully, he'll finally get his comeuppance and end up in prison.

I was talking to someone a few months ago who has one of the highest level security clearances and he said it was mind boggling what Trump did. While not a Trump supporter, he would be somewhat conservative

FWIW....he said that Hillary should also have been prosecuted for what she did with her server

And the wee dig at the end  ;D

Well it is a legitimate question and you know damn well that's what he's going to use to discredit the charges
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 10:07:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2023, 09:06:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 07:43:56 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 09, 2023, 02:54:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2023, 01:49:06 AM
Trump indicted on 7 charges relating to Presidential documents. Hopefully, he'll finally get his comeuppance and end up in prison.

I was talking to someone a few months ago who has one of the highest level security clearances and he said it was mind boggling what Trump did. While not a Trump supporter, he would be somewhat conservative

FWIW....he said that Hillary should also have been prosecuted for what she did with her server

And the wee dig at the end  ;D

Well it is a legitimate question and you know damn well that's what he's going to use to discredit the charges

If they are all guilty then no one has any problems with that, opening up a can or worms is great for popcorn producers  ;D

The place for all its glitz and glamour is no different to some of the African run countries on how its governments are operating
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2023, 10:34:56 AM
He'll weasel his way out of it or get someone else to take the fall like he always does.

Still Jan 6 and the attempted theft of Georgia to come.

I might send Chris Christie a few dollars. Only one of them with the balls to, very belatedly mind you, call Trump out for what he is.

I remember when I feared and disliked (but at times grudgingly admired) his grandstanding, loudmouth, bullying persona. I'd give my right arm for Christie to be the GOP nominee now. He'd probably beat Biden fairly handily, but at least the country would be safe.

Remember when the issue of democracy itself wasn't really something you had to factor in or account for? You could fear the opposition merely for their policies and outlook within a normal political environment?

Simpler times...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 09, 2023, 09:37:24 PM
A load of the stuff was stored in a bathroom.

I guess I'm not the only one who reads and does his best thinking sitting on the shitter. :D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 10, 2023, 02:24:38 AM
I had a read of the indictment and it's a serious piece of work. Presumably the maggot base won't read it but republican limelighters will surely be informed about it and realise Trump is fcked, well maybe I'm giving too much credit to most of them, except Mitch who might be evil but he's savvy. This is nothing like the Mueller Report. It is an actual indictment... it will be heard in court with Trump as defendant. And as indictments go, it really doesn't get more conclusively damning than this. Even with Aileen Cannon as the presiding judge,  how far will Cannon be willing to go out on a limb for Trump after her last humiliating fiasco?
it's hard to imagine how Trump will not be convicted and wind up in prison. Well that is surely what would happen to anyone other than Trump. If Cannon does not recuse herself, then the prosecution is likely to present a motion for a different judge, due to Cannon's past performance... and that motion is likely to succeed.
.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2023, 02:30:20 AM
She can slow walk the case. Then, if he wins the election, who knows if it's ever tried?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 10, 2023, 12:57:11 PM
Can't see Trump doing time.   A Nixon-style pardon if he's found guilty, I'd say.

Fun thread on the indictment here:

https://twitter.com/metroadlib/status/1667248343255220227?t=kzOvmJWkDAvzxiK6VzOEvA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/metroadlib/status/1667248343255220227?t=kzOvmJWkDAvzxiK6VzOEvA&s=19)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2023, 12:58:22 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jonathan-turley-fox-news-trump-indictment-b2354920.html

https://www.salon.com/2023/06/09/dershowitz-tells-fox-that-can-dodge-most-of-the-indictment-apart-from-one-thing/

Two interesting takes on the indictment

Turley, IMHO usually hits it right down the middle

I had a Trump supporter almost bite the head off me yesterday......and went on a 15 minute rant about Hillary and bleachbit and hammers and servers in bathrooms.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2023, 01:02:58 PM
Did the Trump supporter acknowledge that Trump has to pay the piper if found guilty, regardless of what  Hillary did?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2023, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2023, 01:02:58 PM
Did the Trump supporter acknowledge that Trump has to pay the piper if found guilty, regardless of what  Hillary did?

Absolutely not

It's a "politically motivated prosecution" and if Hillary had been held to the same standards she'd have been locked up and the key thrown away. It's just another political witch hunt to bring Trump down

He also brought up the millions of documents Obama took for his Presidential Library and asked if anyone went through those looking for classified documents, which is actually a fair question

I asked the guy I know with a high level of security clearance about this and he said that even if they did find classified documents in that trove, the fact that Obama went through the correct channels and checked all the boxes (no pun intended) with the National Archives it's a non issue even if some classified documents slipped through the cracks

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2023, 01:19:25 PM
So did someone plant this stuff at Trumps place? Again only dealing with one corrupt president at a time
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 10, 2023, 01:25:41 PM
Worth noting that the complainant and all the witnesses were Trump staffers or people in his circle. Hard to argue the Democrats are witchunting here
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 10, 2023, 01:27:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2023, 01:19:25 PM
So did someone plant this stuff at Trumps place? Again only dealing with one corrupt president at a time
No. He knew exactly what he had to the point of showing people with no clearance what he had. The nuclear stuff and Macron compromat were pointedly of serious value to Putin and Moscow
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2023, 01:40:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2023, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2023, 01:02:58 PM
Did the Trump supporter acknowledge that Trump has to pay the piper if found guilty, regardless of what  Hillary did?

Absolutely not

It's a "politically motivated prosecution" and if Hillary had been held to the same standards she'd have been locked up and the key thrown away. It's just another political witch hunt to bring Trump down

He also brought up the millions of documents Obama took for his Presidential Library and asked if anyone went through those looking for classified documents, which is actually a fair question

I asked the guy I know with a high level of security clearance about this and he said that even if they did find classified documents in that trove, the fact that Obama went through the correct channels and checked all the boxes (no pun intended) with the National Archives it's a non issue even if some classified documents  slipped through the cracks

If Trump had returned the docs when the requests were made, none of this would be happening.

What's with the other candidates though? Yet another chance to stick the boot in and they're all terrified. They all secretly hope that THIS time will be the one, but they don't have the courage to stick their necks out. They hope the justice system will do the nasty work of beating Trump so they don't have to. Do you think Trump would be so reticent if it were DeSanctimonious who was stashing classified docs in the jacks? He'd be going to town on him! This is the man who campaigned on Ted Cruz having an ugly wife and an auld lad who was mixed up in the JFK asassination!

DeSantis probably secretly filled his migrant plane up with SF hipsters for the return journey to Florida recently and pulled strings to get them on that grand jury. :P
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 25, 2023, 06:40:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2023, 05:31:15 PM
Because the MAGAt fever swamps, where allegations and accusations and insinuations and half-based conspiracy theories are all that are required (unless it's Trump or other MAGAts), are not the same as the real, reality-based world?

Just put him on ignore J70. Honestly, I think his posts would drop off if you'd ignore him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2023, 06:44:53 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 25, 2023, 06:40:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2023, 05:31:15 PM
Because the MAGAt fever swamps, where allegations and accusations and insinuations and half-based conspiracy theories are all that are required (unless it's Trump or other MAGAts), are not the same as the real, reality-based world?

Just put him on ignore J70. Honestly, I think his posts would drop off if you'd ignore him.

You're right. Deleted it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 28, 2023, 12:13:27 AM
Could Trump when president have declassified all those documents found in his possession?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on June 28, 2023, 09:37:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2023, 12:13:27 AM
Could Trump when president have declassified all those documents found in his possession?

Yes

(With a few possible exceptions)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 28, 2023, 11:29:30 AM
So basically he's indicted for being a total idiot, careless to the extreme with top secret documents, multi layers of lies on top of lies, blocking investigations which  in all probably were mandated  after many people squealed to the authorities about his criminal recklessness with state secrets. Now he repeatedly whines conspiracy, political witchhunt.
Meanwhile some of the republican brainiest have come up with the defence that because he could have declasified most of those documents when president, he should be given a free pass. ;D
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2023, 12:27:28 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2023, 11:29:30 AM
So basically he's indicted for being a total idiot, careless to the extreme with top secret documents, multi layers of lies on top of lies, blocking investigations which  in all probably were mandated  after many people squealed to the authorities about his criminal recklessness with state secrets. Now he repeatedly whines conspiracy, political witchhunt.
Meanwhile some of the republican brainiest have come up with the defence that because he could have declasified most of those documents when president, he should be given a free pass. ;D

As I said a couple of pages back, if he'd handed the documents back when he was asked, instead of trying to hide them and obstruct the authorities, none of this would be happening.

And the stupidest part is that he's not intent on selling anything - he just thinks that, security and laws be damned, he's entitled to keep them and show them off as trophies to whoever he wants.

All part of his needy, spoiled brat ego.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 28, 2023, 12:32:27 PM
On a brighter note, the Supreme Court shut down the North Carolina attempt to sideline state courts from electoral oversight. Had they been successful, rogue state legislatures could have over-ridden the votes of their populace whenever they liked and there would be no recourse within that state's court system. Some of those "alternate" elector machinations Trump and Eastman and the rest were attempting in December 2020 and January 2021 might have been cleared to proceed in future.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on June 29, 2023, 03:17:03 PM
SCOTUS strikes down affirmative action for college admissions.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/20-1199_hgdj.pdf

Because Harvard's and UNC's admissions programs lack sufficiently
focused and measurable objectives warranting the use of race,
unavoidably employ race in a negative manner, involve racial stereo-
typing, and lack meaningful end points, those admissions programs
cannot be reconciled with the guarantees of the Equal Protection
Clause. At the same time, nothing prohibits universities from consid-
ering an applicant's discussion of how race affected the applicant's life,
so long as that discussion is concretely tied to a quality of character or
unique ability that the particular applicant can contribute to the uni-
versity. Many universities have for too long wrongly concluded that
the touchstone of an individual's identity is not challenges bested,
skills built, or lessons learned, but the color of their skin. This Nation's
constitutional history does not tolerate that choice.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 29, 2023, 03:57:42 PM
It was inevitable.

Another win for Edward Blum in his decades-long singular crusade and funding of test cases to fight against affirmative action.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on June 29, 2023, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 28, 2023, 09:37:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2023, 12:13:27 AM
Could Trump when president have declassified all those documents found in his possession?

Yes

(With a few possible exceptions)
One of the Fox contributors a week or so ago said that documents which impact on national security cannot be shared , even if a president declassified them. And that the legislation focuses on national security not classified/de-classified.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on June 30, 2023, 03:21:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2023, 03:57:42 PM
It was inevitable.

Another win for Edward Blum in his decades-long singular crusade and funding of test cases to fight against affirmative action.
Yet another politically biased and foolish sop to the predominantly White economic elite, rationalized on the basis of a 200-year-old Constitution that tolerated slavery and did not afford women the right to vote... so-called "conservatism". Total nonsense. But then that is often the way with Law.

Not only is this SC ruling absurdly unjust, it has a tendency to perpetuate that same injustice. Rightfully is Clarence bearing the family name, Thomas.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on June 30, 2023, 06:35:12 AM
I dunno MS. There's something inherently wrong about skin colour being taken into account when applying for universities. I think its weird that anyone would want this in 2023.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:09:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 30, 2023, 06:35:12 AM
I dunno MS. There's something inherently wrong about skin colour being taken into account when applying for universities. I think its weird that anyone would want this in 2023.

It was taken into account the other way for hundreds of years before the 70s.

But it's a difficult issue for sure. Especially for Asian American students.

Perhaps they'll figure out some other way to give kids from poor and troubled backgrounds and locales a chance.

As I read someone commenting, when you start to regularly get black and Latino legacy students rolling up to Harvard, you'll know that things have progressed.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 02, 2023, 01:08:19 AM
 Another scandalous made up indictment for 45

:'(
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 02, 2023, 05:14:22 PM
How many indictments are we up to now?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Orior on August 02, 2023, 11:06:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 02, 2023, 05:14:22 PM
How many indictments are we up to now?

Does not appear to be doing him any harm in the race for the Republican nomination.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AustinPowers on August 03, 2023, 12:46:12 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 02, 2023, 05:14:22 PM
How many indictments are we up to now?

As many as it will  take to stop him  running for  the Presidency
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 03, 2023, 01:00:53 AM
Nothing he's currently indicted of would prevent him, even if found guilty, from running for president.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on August 03, 2023, 01:31:40 AM
He'll not be a great President in the clink.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 03, 2023, 01:34:24 AM
He wasn't when he was free either.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 03, 2023, 09:31:24 AM
Isn't it insane that the Republicans in competition with him are terrified to really go at him.
Like usually an opponent jumps on anything but not the way it is over there.

I see the irony of me posting here when I'm also going to say there are too many in Irish media all over every Trump story while the HSE, housing and more are in bits...



Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 03, 2023, 11:16:10 AM
He's going to end up winning a second term isn't he.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 03, 2023, 11:50:46 AM
Sure if he does, that's what they want.
I hate this: 'This is not what my country is about' bollox from the USA. The hoor got millions of votes when he lost too.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: imtommygunn on August 03, 2023, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 03, 2023, 11:16:10 AM
He's going to end up winning a second term isn't he.

:(

I'd say so.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 03, 2023, 01:04:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 03, 2023, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 03, 2023, 11:16:10 AM
He's going to end up winning a second term isn't he.

:(

I'd say so.

So there was a Republican commentator on the radio the other day giving up his two cents worth.

Basically he said that the Democrats want Trump to be the nomination rather than the other guy, as they feel that Trump will not win over the ones who are sitting on the fence, whereas the other candidate has a better opportunity to bring them back on the Republican side!

Its a gamble but sounds legit!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2023, 09:50:49 PM
The betting markets have consistently had Biden as the favourite all year. Trump closed the gap a little in June but Biden's numbers are on their way back up again, probably because of the strong economy. This RFK Junior character is going after the tinfoil hat vote on the left, but that sort of thing is more lucrative on the right where Trump is still the hot favourite for the GOP nomination.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Hound on August 03, 2023, 10:20:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2023, 09:50:49 PM
The betting markets have consistently had Biden as the favourite all year. Trump closed the gap a little in June but Biden's numbers are on their way back up again, probably because of the strong economy. This RFK Junior character is going after the tinfoil hat vote on the left, but that sort of thing is more lucrative on the right where Trump is still the hot favourite for the GOP nomination.
Odds still very close. Biden only marginally ahead, but at around 6/4 or 7/4 he's still well odds against. Trump at mainly 2/1 just slightly longer.
Biden a poor candidate and Trump even worse. If either party had a very competent front runner, they'd be odds on.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AustinPowers on August 03, 2023, 10:44:38 PM
Biden is only there because he'll   do  what he is told.  That's  why they want  him for another  term. Trump  was a  wasp at the picnic  last time, and he will be again..  That's why  they don't want him back , which is why they're throwing  everything at him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Taylor on August 04, 2023, 08:09:13 AM
Who is they?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 04, 2023, 09:07:36 AM
Quote from: Taylor on August 04, 2023, 08:09:13 AM
Who is they?

MSNBC, CNN, the Democratic party etc
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 04, 2023, 10:16:02 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 04, 2023, 10:14:27 AM
Two fantastic dumbass posts by AP and RH!  ;D ;D

Why, do you disagree? Do you think they want Trump to win?? Really?
I don't want Trump to win.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on August 04, 2023, 10:40:05 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 04, 2023, 10:16:02 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 04, 2023, 10:14:27 AM
Two fantastic dumbass posts by AP and RH!  ;D ;D

Why, do you disagree? Do you think they want Trump to win?? Really?
I don't want Trump to win.

So you are one of the "they" referred to by AP!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trileacman on August 07, 2023, 10:38:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 03, 2023, 10:20:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2023, 09:50:49 PM
The betting markets have consistently had Biden as the favourite all year. Trump closed the gap a little in June but Biden's numbers are on their way back up again, probably because of the strong economy. This RFK Junior character is going after the tinfoil hat vote on the left, but that sort of thing is more lucrative on the right where Trump is still the hot favourite for the GOP nomination.
Odds still very close. Biden only marginally ahead, but at around 6/4 or 7/4 he's still well odds against. Trump at mainly 2/1 just slightly longer.
Biden a poor candidate and Trump even worse. If either party had a very competent front runner, they'd be odds on.

I disagree with your assessment about on that. Personally I think (if neither takes a mad dash towards senility in the next 12 months) that Biden would beat Trump in an election. Realistically Biden hasn't trashed the country or economy and will hover up the vast majority of the votes he got the last time. Likewise Trump has played to script and will hold onto most of his base votes. QED Biden will win again.

However I'd put my house on De Santis beating Biden. He has the cut of a president and he knows it. Up against an grandad he hover up enough middle ground votes who'd fear Biden losing his grip on things in a 2nd term (which has a propensity for happening.

However the inverse is not true. I would wager good money that a reasonably good Trump campaign would beat any Democratic challenger. Simply because they're pretty much all going to be to the left of Biden and lack the goodwill that Biden has built up from 10+ years in the public eye.

Put as concisely as I can, Biden is the only Democrat who can win the next election, Trump is the only Republican who can lose it.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 07, 2023, 11:57:17 PM
DeSantis in focusing too much on the culture wars and his ongoing battle against "woke," rather than policies and issues which a majority of voters care about. Trump should beat DeSantis so long as he doesn't end up in jail.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 08, 2023, 12:18:47 AM
Trump will beat DeSantis whether or not he ends up in jail. 
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 08, 2023, 12:24:02 AM
Quote from: trileacman on August 07, 2023, 10:38:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 03, 2023, 10:20:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2023, 09:50:49 PM
The betting markets have consistently had Biden as the favourite all year. Trump closed the gap a little in June but Biden's numbers are on their way back up again, probably because of the strong economy. This RFK Junior character is going after the tinfoil hat vote on the left, but that sort of thing is more lucrative on the right where Trump is still the hot favourite for the GOP nomination.
Odds still very close. Biden only marginally ahead, but at around 6/4 or 7/4 he's still well odds against. Trump at mainly 2/1 just slightly longer.
Biden a poor candidate and Trump even worse. If either party had a very competent front runner, they'd be odds on.

I disagree with your assessment about on that. Personally I think (if neither takes a mad dash towards senility in the next 12 months) that Biden would beat Trump in an election. Realistically Biden hasn't trashed the country or economy and will hover up the vast majority of the votes he got the last time. Likewise Trump has played to script and will hold onto most of his base votes. QED Biden will win again.

However I'd put my house on De Santis beating Biden. He has the cut of a president and he knows it. Up against an grandad he hover up enough middle ground votes who'd fear Biden losing his grip on things in a 2nd term (which has a propensity for happening.

However the inverse is not true. I would wager good money that a reasonably good Trump campaign would beat any Democratic challenger. Simply because they're pretty much all going to be to the left of Biden and lack the goodwill that Biden has built up from 10+ years in the public eye.

Put as concisely as I can, Biden is the only Democrat who can win the next election, Trump is the only Republican who can lose it.

Pretty good assessment.

For now it looks like Biden to win, and 4 years after that it'll be DeSantis v Newsom.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 08, 2023, 01:25:27 AM
This was supposed to have been DeSantis' time.  He could take over Trump's base, and sell himself to establishment Republicans as the saner version of Trump.  Problem for him was he didn't realize that the key to having Trump's base was actually being Trump, not just espousing his anti-woke posturings.

US politics often surprises me, so I may be way off here, but I think DeSantis is finished, on the national level at least.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 08, 2023, 10:06:33 AM
Leaving aside the damaging aspects of his "woke" crusade, DeSantis is a flat track bully and a coward. That nomination was there for him, wrapped up in a nice bow, but he didn't have the balls to take Trump on. He's the right hard lad when his opposition is a teacher who wants to teach tolerance and decency and real history, or some young students in masks, or a progressive DA. Then he can grandstand and look the big man in front of the MAGA hordes. But to get down in the gutter and fight fire with fire against a corrupt and immoral thug like Trump? He's a f**king wimp beneath it all.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 08, 2023, 10:14:16 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 03, 2023, 10:44:38 PM
Biden is only there because he'll   do  what he is told.  That's  why they want  him for another  term. Trump  was a  wasp at the picnic  last time, and he will be again..  That's why  they don't want him back , which is why they're throwing  everything at him.

Nothing is getting thrown at Trump that isn't deserved and earned.

And Biden is there because he was a moderate, centrist option to put up against a racist, far right wannabe dictator. Biden would never have been president without Trump, but he was the only good bet to beat him and thus highly necessary.

And who are "they"?

People like myself?

Or some shadowy, imaginary puppet masters somewhere?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 08, 2023, 12:39:18 PM
Some of these school boards/districts needed serious reigning in

And while maybe he didn't go about it the right way, DeSantis (and Younkin to a lesser degree) were bang on the money

The Republican primary voters are (imho) 70% Trumpers

It's going to be nearly impossible for anyone, let alone DeSantis to challenge him

But these Trumpers are getting exactly what they deserve-Trump cost them about 4 Senate seats and 30 house seats last time out

While still relevant, the Presidency has become more of a rubber stamp (imo).  The real power lies in the house and the senate, because if Joe tries to rule by executive order, there's a very good chance the Supreme Court will shoot down whatever it is he's trying to do
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 08, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
DeSantis was NOT bang on the money.

Unless you're saying that teaching that enslaved people were able to learn valuable skills is a good thing?

Maybe there should be a unit on Hitler and Mussolini making the trains run in time?

Prager "University" now getting an official entry into Florida schools too. There, of all places, teachers will be provided approved materials to teach climate denialism.

Chickens will come home to roost in Florida soon as a result of DeSantis policies. Good luck to any farmer or builder trying to get help down there to work their fields or sites.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 09, 2023, 12:40:32 AM
Trump should be in jail on enticement to riot, leading to death, can't understand how people can't see this. How csn a person can even run for president says something about Americans in general
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 09, 2023, 06:27:29 PM
If you want to get away with a crime in America, you have to make it a big one. Rob a bank with a gun and you'll do time. Rob a bank's customers to the tune of millions of dollars and you'll get a clip around the ear.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 22, 2023, 12:09:18 AM
Doesn't say much for their family and friends by thinking that chap is telling the truth more.

(https://therandyreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/poll-trump-truth-640.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 22, 2023, 12:53:07 AM
Utterly pointless trying to reason with them. They simply must be defeated.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 22, 2023, 05:14:30 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 22, 2023, 12:53:07 AM
Utterly pointless trying to reason with them. They simply must be defeated.
it's the same as the 1930s. Total polarisation. No progress.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 24, 2023, 10:12:44 AM
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1694513603251241143?s=20  (https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1694513603251241143?s=20)

The interview.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2023, 12:56:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 24, 2023, 10:12:44 AM
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1694513603251241143?s=20  (https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1694513603251241143?s=20)

The interview.

Wonder does Tucker still "hate Trump with a passion" like he was caught saying in those group texts with Hannity and the rest?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2023, 01:08:14 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 22, 2023, 12:09:18 AM
Doesn't say much for their family and friends by thinking that chap is telling the truth more.

(https://therandyreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/poll-trump-truth-640.jpg)

It's a cult.

I'm currently way upstate in NY, and you still see some houses plastered in Trump and Gadsen flags. They're so in everyone's face with their worship of the man and the bigotry and grievance that he stands for.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 24, 2023, 08:18:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2023, 01:08:14 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 22, 2023, 12:09:18 AM
Doesn't say much for their family and friends by thinking that chap is telling the truth more.

(https://therandyreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/poll-trump-truth-640.jpg)

It's a cult.

I'm currently way upstate in NY, and you still see some houses plastered in Trump and Gadsen flags. They're so in everyone's face with their worship of the man and the bigotry and grievance that he stands for.

A few years ago I drove from Rochester to Syracuse along the lakefront (parallel to I 90) then went South on 81. It was amazing to see the work that went into some of the displays
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on August 25, 2023, 12:57:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4VY7y2XMAA7A8F?format=jpg&name=900x900)

215 pounds, must be long time since he weighed himself?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 25, 2023, 02:14:18 AM
Put the other leg on the scales Donald!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 25, 2023, 03:02:30 AM
That's the same height and weight as Ravens QB Lamar Jackson lol


(https://i.postimg.cc/qRhGzBPp/IMG-2049.jpg)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 25, 2023, 03:05:12 AM
How much do you reckon he'll be selling posters of that for next week?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 25, 2023, 08:21:59 AM
Will the left ever learn? They are sharing the mug shot as a meme thinking he doesn't want it
He is going to use it himself. Jon Stewart will have some monologues about Trump and it'll go viral but it's another win for Trump too.
When lefty liberals as his base and a lot of regular people attack then it boosts him.
Every media outlet played his game with the Carlson interview and the craic handing himself in.
He will be president again. And so what if that's who they want?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on August 25, 2023, 10:59:45 AM
He actually looks very good in it. I dont think it's anything like what people were expecting.
I watched the Tucker video. What is the man on about half the time. All he seemed to talk about was TV ratings and how his opponents are losers lol.
Did I read that he's up 25 points since the indictments started? If so they are winning the election for him.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 25, 2023, 11:05:48 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on August 25, 2023, 08:21:59 AM
Jon Stewart will have some monologues about Trump and it'll go viral but it's another win for Trump too.

Jon Stewart hasn't had a TV show since before Trump's first campaign - where's he gonna have this monologue?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 25, 2023, 12:39:02 PM
He has a show on Apple. A podcast I think and is still getting airtime elsewhere. Not to mention social.
He's just an example. Loads of lads today slagging the mugshot but sure that's going to be an image Trump himself will be using.
HOW can they (Media) fall for the same game again?!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 25, 2023, 12:46:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 25, 2023, 10:59:45 AM
He actually looks very good in it. I dont think it's anything like what people were expecting.
I watched the Tucker video. What is the man on about half the time. All he seemed to talk about was TV ratings and how his opponents are losers lol.
Did I read that he's up 25 points since the indictments started? If so they are winning the election for him.

He's not winning the election unless circumstances do Biden in or something happens to Biden himself (health or his son's influence peddling gets directly connected to him in a major way).

The GOP base may worship and deify Trump, but no one else wants a return to the endless freak show which, in addition to his ceaseless personal drama, will include serious stuff like a withdrawal from NATO, the complete politicization of the civil service and who knows what when it comes to things like the environment, immigration, abortion and LBGTQ stuff.

Unless he can swing postponements and delays in all these cases, Trump will be spending much of his election year testifying and providing everyone with a daily reminder of what a corrupt, unethical, anti-democratic, responsibility-dodging, mob boss-like wannabe dictator he is.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 25, 2023, 12:49:37 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on August 25, 2023, 12:39:02 PM
He has a show on Apple. A podcast I think and is still getting airtime elsewhere. Not to mention social.
He's just an example. Loads of lads today slagging the mugshot but sure that's going to be an image Trump himself will be using.
HOW can they (Media) fall for the same game again?!

This is NOT a positive from Trump outside of the GOP base.

And what are the media supposed to do? Ignore January 6th and his attempts to steal the election and the fall out from that with Trump becoming the first ever president to be arrested and charged with crimes, never mind over and over again?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 25, 2023, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 25, 2023, 11:05:48 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on August 25, 2023, 08:21:59 AM
Jon Stewart will have some monologues about Trump and it'll go viral but it's another win for Trump too.

Jon Stewart hasn't had a TV show since before Trump's first campaign - where's he gonna have this monologue?

He has a show on Apple.

Which is available on podcast too.

Very good, hour length interviews with various people.

https://www.theproblem.com/ (https://www.theproblem.com/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on August 25, 2023, 01:15:15 PM
Trump supporters (like many people in here) believe what they want to believe

I pointed out to a hardcore Trump supporter that in Georgia:

The Governor is a REPUBLICAN

The Secretary of State is a REPUBLICAN

The Attorney General is a REPUBLICAN

If there was some conspiracy to steal the election, all three of them must have been in on it

Their response-they're RINOS

I pointed out that something like 60 lawsuits got tossed, many by judges appointed by Republican Presidents

Their response: They were appointed by the Bush's who are......you've guess it RINOS
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: AustinPowers on August 25, 2023, 01:48:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 25, 2023, 12:46:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 25, 2023, 10:59:45 AM
He actually looks very good in it. I dont think it's anything like what people were expecting.
I watched the Tucker video. What is the man on about half the time. All he seemed to talk about was TV ratings and how his opponents are losers lol.
Did I read that he's up 25 points since the indictments started? If so they are winning the election for him.

He's not winning the election unless circumstances do Biden in or something happens to Biden himself (health or his son's influence peddling gets directly connected to him in a major way).

The GOP base may worship and deify Trump, but no one else wants a return to the endless freak show which, in addition to his ceaseless personal drama, will include serious stuff like a withdrawal from NATO, the complete politicization of the civil service and who knows what when it comes to things like the environment, immigration, abortion and LBGTQ stuff.

Unless he can swing postponements and delays in all these cases, Trump will be spending much of his election year testifying and providing everyone with a daily reminder of what a corrupt, unethical, anti-democratic, responsibility-dodging, mob boss-like wannabe dictator he is.

Never fear. Sure  Ireland can take  America's  place in NATO
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 25, 2023, 02:14:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 25, 2023, 12:49:37 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on August 25, 2023, 12:39:02 PM


He has a show on Apple. A podcast I think and is still getting airtime elsewhere. Not to mention social.
He's just an example. Loads of lads today slagging the mugshot but sure that's going to be an image Trump himself will be using.
HOW can they (Media) fall for the same game again?!

This is NOT a positive from Trump outside of the GOP base.

And what are the media supposed to do? Ignore January 6th and his attempts to steal the election and the fall out from that with Trump becoming the first ever president to be arrested and charged with crimes, never mind over and over again?

Of course you don't ignore January 6th but rolling live coverage of him handing himself in.
Chatting his supporters without challenge and basically handing him the news cycle - just like they did before.

But I also see how he gets the clicks as outrage and polarised views fuel the Internet.

We only see the hardcore headers on the news but clearly there are millions more who agree with him overall but might not say so in public.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on August 25, 2023, 02:20:00 PM
Yes, there are millions who agree with him. What about the millions who don't? They never seem to be the subject of any analyses.

And come on, we've been in the age of 24 hour cable news for 30 years. Ignoring the unprecedented arrest of a former president is utter fantasy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 25, 2023, 04:25:24 PM
Every time Trump opens his gob he confirms that he is a stone cold narcissist.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 31, 2023, 05:17:10 PM
Mitch glitching again yesterday - 2nd time in a month.
Really need to implement term limits in politics.
They have a minimum age - there should be a maximum one too.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on August 31, 2023, 05:42:25 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/08/30/rfk-jr-the-american-economy-is-in-trouble.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eire90 on August 31, 2023, 05:47:29 PM
rumours in conspiracy world says they want to lock us down again and trump just warned them.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 31, 2023, 06:12:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 31, 2023, 05:17:10 PM
Mitch glitching again yesterday - 2nd time in a month.
Really need to implement term limits in politics.
They have a minimum age - there should be a maximum one too.

How in the name of Jaysus can he not be told to step down. I know it's not great here but in the USA there are some amount of aul crayturs in powerful positions over there.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 01, 2023, 12:51:16 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 31, 2023, 05:17:10 PM
Mitch glitching again yesterday - 2nd time in a month.
Really need to implement term limits in politics.
They have a minimum age - there should be a maximum one too.

These episodes McConnell is suffering are bizarre and freaky to look at. He had a fall earlier in the year, so maybe it's related. But surely he needs to take a leave of absence to get sorted out?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 01, 2023, 05:10:03 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on August 31, 2023, 06:12:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 31, 2023, 05:17:10 PM
Mitch glitching again yesterday - 2nd time in a month.
Really need to implement term limits in politics.
They have a minimum age - there should be a maximum one too.

How in the name of Jaysus can he not be told to step down. I know it's not great here but in the USA there are some amount of aul crayturs in powerful positions over there.

Don't get me started on Dianne Feinstein. They say she doesn't even know what day of the week it is. She roars at her staff for doing stuff that she asked them to do but she forgot about it, or for not doing things she never asked them to do. She's away with the fairies, and she's refusing to retire even though she's been holding up important votes with her inability to function.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on September 01, 2023, 06:33:34 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 01, 2023, 05:10:03 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on August 31, 2023, 06:12:07 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 31, 2023, 05:17:10 PM
Mitch glitching again yesterday - 2nd time in a month.
Really need to implement term limits in politics.
They have a minimum age - there should be a maximum one too.

How in the name of Jaysus can he not be told to step down. I know it's not great here but in the USA there are some amount of aul crayturs in powerful positions over there.

Don't get me started on Dianne Feinstein. They say she doesn't even know what day of the week it is. She roars at her staff for doing stuff that she asked them to do but she forgot about it, or for not doing things she never asked them to do. She's away with the fairies, and she's refusing to retire even though she's been holding up important votes with her inability to function.

Is there no mechanism in place to allow the Dems or even the people of California to force her out on account of incapacitation and an inability to represent them?

There's starting to be a few murmurings this week as well, on account of McConnell, that the Dems should start seriously looking at a real primary challenge to Biden.

I saw one proposal of a Whitmer/Warner (Sen-GA) ticket.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 08:13:04 PM
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/report-dianne-feinstein-memory-rapidly-deteriorating
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on September 02, 2023, 09:08:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 01, 2023, 12:51:16 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 31, 2023, 05:17:10 PM
Mitch glitching again yesterday - 2nd time in a month.
Really need to implement term limits in politics.
They have a minimum age - there should be a maximum one too.

These episodes McConnell is suffering are bizarre and freaky to look at. He had a fall earlier in the year, so maybe it's related. But surely he needs to take a leave of absence to get sorted out?
Life expectancy has increased enormously in the last 30 years as smoking has been phased out, amongst other things.
The absence of Senate term limits does not reflect the fact that years of life quality has not moved in parallel.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 29, 2023, 02:06:45 PM
Dianne Feinstein has died
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on September 30, 2023, 01:44:17 PM
Trump saying "there is no way he would lose California in a real election", a state that has been the solidest of blues in Presidential elections for decades.

Before 2016 this sort of comment would have been laughed at by everyone in both sides.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 01, 2023, 01:11:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 30, 2023, 01:44:17 PMTrump saying "there is no way he would lose California in a real election", a state that has been the solidest of blues in Presidential elections for decades.

Before 2016 this sort of comment would have been laughed at by everyone in both sides.

He has perverted US politics to such extremes that his nonsense, no matter how outlandish or even dangerous, is just routine, mundane background noise at this point.

He came out last week saying General Mattis should be executed, and it barely made any news, never mind headlines.

Every day there is something that would end any other person's political career on its own, but it never seems to damage his standing with his base. They just seem to love him more because he hates the right people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 01, 2023, 01:15:11 PM
I've been critical and contemptuous of Kevin McCarthy on many occasions for his naked, shameless, craven pursuit of power, but it seems there is still a modicum of dignity and realism in there. When it came down to it, he pushed through a bipartisan solution to keep the government lights on for another month and faced down the nihilist trolls like Gaetz.

It may end up costing him his job, at least until the GOP see there is no one else (or unless he makes a deal with the Dems to support him).
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on October 03, 2023, 10:23:47 PM
McCarthy out as speaker

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/matt-gaetz-kevin-mccarthy-house-speakership-10-03-23/index.html
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on October 05, 2023, 05:00:57 PM
Quote from: dec on October 03, 2023, 10:23:47 PMMcCarthy out as speaker

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/matt-gaetz-kevin-mccarthy-house-speakership-10-03-23/index.html

Republicans have learned that if you ramp up your base you could blow out your speaker.

Stolen from Twitter.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on October 05, 2023, 05:07:55 PM
Wonder does McCarthy think it was worth the sale of his dignity and soul to Trump and his minions, after all is said and done?

First speaker ever deposed. And after only nine months.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 07:02:52 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8Gq0UtWcAAMbsu?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2023, 09:20:24 PM
Happy holidays, everyone!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: burdizzo on December 14, 2023, 10:05:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2023, 09:20:24 PMHappy holidays, everyone!

Happy Christmas to you and yours!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on December 20, 2023, 12:06:02 AM
Colorado supreme court rules Donald Trump will not be on the ballot for the next president election.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2023, 12:08:17 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 20, 2023, 12:06:02 AMColorado supreme court rules Donald Trump will not be on the ballot for the next president election.

"A majority of the court holds that President Trump is disqualified from holding the office of president under Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution," the court wrote in a 4-to-3 ruling. "Because he is disqualified, it would be a wrongful act under the Election Code for the Colorado Secretary of State to list him as a candidate on the presidential primary ballot

This does rather put the cat among the pigeons.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tbrick18 on December 20, 2023, 11:01:44 AM
What is the impact of this?
I'm assuming he can still stand in the election, but just not in that state.
If we was to win the presidency again, and Colorado had this ruling made, does that mean he no legal authority of that state?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on December 20, 2023, 11:32:58 AM
Can still be overturned by the US Supreme Court mind you, which has a Conservative majority.
It's a matter of time at this stage. It's debatable whether it would be overturned in time before the election season.

I think it could possibly backfire and galvanise his base.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2023, 12:32:34 PM
No idea on the Supreme Court, but you know Thomas and Alito will definitely vote to overturn it. The question will be on the likes of Kavanaugh and Roberts. I'd imagine they will join with the others.

As to galvanizing his base, I think that ship has sailed with the prosecutions. Christ, he feels safe enough now that he is openly talking (and doubling down on this talk) about immigrants "poisoning the blood" of the US.

It would be nice if the SC let it stand though and open it up to other states to kick him off the ballot. The GOP might come to their senses and nominate someone who is NOT an open threat to democracy.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on December 20, 2023, 02:43:59 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 20, 2023, 12:06:02 AMColorado supreme court rules Donald Trump will not be on the ballot for the next president election.
Not quite, at the moment it is just for the Republican primary.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Main Street on January 13, 2024, 02:13:10 AM
A nightmare before Valentine's day

 (https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/attachments/img_2771-jpeg.439095/)
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Itchy on February 09, 2024, 06:28:55 PM
The choice facing US voters is well chronicled in this little clip

https://youtu.be/0BqxArM3Vwk?si=Aa7pbN8o577Qb7bP

However, it fails to mention the Turd Sandwich and Giant Douche are both in the pocket of the same people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 10:19:00 PM
Biden is a shambles. Sophie's Choice in the US.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 10, 2024, 01:05:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 10:19:00 PMBiden is a shambles. Sophie's Choice in the US.

Representative democracy is a shambles.

Look at the state of those being elected across the world. If it were a professional position that required submission of CVs and interviews, how many would pass the first stage of vetting?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 10, 2024, 01:21:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 10, 2024, 01:05:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 10:19:00 PMBiden is a shambles. Sophie's Choice in the US.

Representative democracy is a shambles.

Look at the state of those being elected across the world. If it were a professional position that required submission of CVs and interviews, how many would pass the first stage of vetting?

It's completely depressing

Joe obviously isn't calling the shots
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on February 10, 2024, 02:59:52 PM
Does it get to a point where they need to invoke the 25th amendment?

If Joe isn't running in the autumn, wouldn't that call need to be made within a few weeks to allow another Democratic candidate to build momentum? We're just 8 months now from polling day.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2024, 04:27:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 10, 2024, 01:21:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 10, 2024, 01:05:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 10:19:00 PMBiden is a shambles. Sophie's Choice in the US.

Representative democracy is a shambles.

Look at the state of those being elected across the world. If it were a professional position that required submission of CVs and interviews, how many would pass the first stage of vetting?

It's completely depressing

Joe obviously isn't calling the shots

Whether or nit he is, the perception is that he isn't, and he's only going to slow down more.

I think the people around him need to make him see that he has to pull out for the good of the country. There is too much at stake.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 10, 2024, 11:08:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2024, 04:27:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 10, 2024, 01:21:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 10, 2024, 01:05:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 10:19:00 PMBiden is a shambles. Sophie's Choice in the US.

Representative democracy is a shambles.

Look at the state of those being elected across the world. If it were a professional position that required submission of CVs and interviews, how many would pass the first stage of vetting?

It's completely depressing

Joe obviously isn't calling the shots

Whether or nit he is, the perception is that he isn't, and he's only going to slow down more.

I think the people around him need to make him see that he has to pull out for the good of the country. There is too much at stake.
When he was running for his first term were they really planning on him seeing out 8 years?! They fucked with the initial term - there must have been better candidates! If even liberals are seeing him as a busted flush then things are bad. He needs to get gone on medical grounds ASAP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2024, 11:50:27 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 10, 2024, 11:08:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2024, 04:27:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 10, 2024, 01:21:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 10, 2024, 01:05:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 10:19:00 PMBiden is a shambles. Sophie's Choice in the US.

Representative democracy is a shambles.

Look at the state of those being elected across the world. If it were a professional position that required submission of CVs and interviews, how many would pass the first stage of vetting?

It's completely depressing

Joe obviously isn't calling the shots

Whether or nit he is, the perception is that he isn't, and he's only going to slow down more.

I think the people around him need to make him see that he has to pull out for the good of the country. There is too much at stake.
When he was running for his first term were they really planning on him seeing out 8 years?! They fucked with the initial term - there must have been better candidates! If even liberals are seeing him as a busted flush then things are bad. He needs to get gone on medical grounds ASAP.

I think many people, including myself, figured he'd only want to a single term. There was no one else at the time. We needed a moderate candidate who stood a reasonable chance of beating the mentally ill freakshow. Sanders would have been crucified as a pinko commie and the second coming of Lenin. Biden was the only option who could appeal to a broad enough section of the electorate to keep Trump out. We need the same again, but unfortunately Biden is now too old.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on February 11, 2024, 01:14:37 PM
The border mess is 100% on this administration and the people most impacted are the Democrats own supporters

Here in Boston, the State has commandeered a community center in a the poorest neighborhood in the city and turned it into a shelter. The locals are going ballistic

https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/02/02/politics-healey-wu-shelter-roxbury-migrants-melnea-cass-recreation-center

Just because Trump is a d1ckh34d doesn't mean he was wrong about everything
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on February 11, 2024, 01:28:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 11, 2024, 01:14:37 PMThe border mess is 100% on this administration and the people most impacted are the Democrats own supporters

Here in Boston, the State has commandeered a community center in a the poorest neighborhood in the city and turned it into a shelter. The locals are going ballistic

https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/02/02/politics-healey-wu-shelter-roxbury-migrants-melnea-cass-recreation-center

Just because Trump is a d1ckh34d doesn't mean he was wrong about everything


The whole GOP is on the same page as Trump on that.

They could put up Haley and get pretty much the same policies without all the derangement, corruption, bigotry and naked worship of despots.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on February 11, 2024, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2024, 11:50:27 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 10, 2024, 11:08:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2024, 04:27:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 10, 2024, 01:21:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 10, 2024, 01:05:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 10:19:00 PMBiden is a shambles. Sophie's Choice in the US.

Representative democracy is a shambles.

Look at the state of those being elected across the world. If it were a professional position that required submission of CVs and interviews, how many would pass the first stage of vetting?

It's completely depressing

Joe obviously isn't calling the shots

Whether or nit he is, the perception is that he isn't, and he's only going to slow down more.

I think the people around him need to make him see that he has to pull out for the good of the country. There is too much at stake.
When he was running for his first term were they really planning on him seeing out 8 years?! They fucked with the initial term - there must have been better candidates! If even liberals are seeing him as a busted flush then things are bad. He needs to get gone on medical grounds ASAP.

I think many people, including myself, figured he'd only want to a single term. There was no one else at the time. We needed a moderate candidate who stood a reasonable chance of beating the mentally ill freakshow. Sanders would have been crucified as a pinko commie and the second coming of Lenin. Biden was the only option who could appeal to a broad enough section of the electorate to keep Trump out. We need the same again, but unfortunately Biden is now too old.

Plenty about Biden's age and memory then you have Trump only a few years younger who thinks he running against Obama and can't tell the difference between Nikki Haley with Nancy Pelosi.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 11, 2024, 01:57:24 PM
Yeah, Trump is older now than Biden was last time, and we heard plenty back then about how Biden was too old.

They are both too old, but it's too late to do much about that now.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: RedHand88 on March 06, 2024, 02:56:08 PM
Haley dropping out of the republican race.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: befair on March 06, 2024, 03:40:31 PM

In Ireland we've experience of a populist making people scared, then selling fear. But it was more understandable; Paisley was handsome, articulate, informed.
Trump, in contrast, looks ridiculous (fake hair/tan), is vulgar, inarticulate, uninformed. His appeal is bewildering.
Netanyahu has really screwed everyone, exploiting Gaza as an excuse to stay in power; his 'Falklands moment.' Biden may lose the young vote, and the Arab-American vote, which may be enough in the swing states
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: markl121 on March 06, 2024, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: befair on March 06, 2024, 03:40:31 PMIn Ireland we've experience of a populist making people scared, then selling fear. But it was more understandable; Paisley was handsome, articulate, informed.
Trump, in contrast, looks ridiculous (fake hair/tan), is vulgar, inarticulate, uninformed. His appeal is bewildering.
Netanyahu has really screwed everyone, exploiting Gaza as an excuse to stay in power; his 'Falklands moment.' Biden may lose the young vote, and the Arab-American vote, which may be enough in the swing states
Didn't think id be seeing paisley referred to as handsome today anyway
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 06, 2024, 05:23:18 PM
Quote from: markl121 on March 06, 2024, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: befair on March 06, 2024, 03:40:31 PMIn Ireland we've experience of a populist making people scared, then selling fear. But it was more understandable; Paisley was handsome, articulate, informed.
Trump, in contrast, looks ridiculous (fake hair/tan), is vulgar, inarticulate, uninformed. His appeal is bewildering.
Netanyahu has really screwed everyone, exploiting Gaza as an excuse to stay in power; his 'Falklands moment.' Biden may lose the young vote, and the Arab-American vote, which may be enough in the swing states
Didn't think id be seeing paisley referred to as handsome today anyway

True what they say. "beauty in the eye of the beholder"
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 06, 2024, 05:41:00 PM
Quote from: befair on March 06, 2024, 03:40:31 PMIn Ireland we've experience of a populist making people scared, then selling fear. But it was more understandable; Paisley was handsome, articulate, informed.
Trump, in contrast, looks ridiculous (fake hair/tan), is vulgar, inarticulate, uninformed. His appeal is bewildering.
Netanyahu has really screwed everyone, exploiting Gaza as an excuse to stay in power; his 'Falklands moment.' Biden may lose the young vote, and the Arab-American vote, which may be enough in the swing states

His appeal isn't that bewildering though when you see the diet of fantastical, paranoid nonsense that the right wing media feeds it's audience. Trump is exactly like Paisley and meets the worldview nurtured by the right wing media, preaching apocalypse and doom and victimhood. You better rely on him, or else you'll be sold down the river in your own, rapidly changing country by the treacherous forces of evil.

I've said this before here, probably on this thread, but I've a cousin who lives in Florida and who is a mild Trumper. They came to NYC last year for Paddy's Day, but they were telling me that their friends were pleading with them not to go. The friends were genuinely terrified that my cousin wouldn't make it out of NYC alive, such was the barrage of nonsense circulating through the right wing media about the safety of NYC and other large "Democratic" cities. Never mind that crime rates are historically low, that NYC is among the safest large cities in the US, and that millions of New Yorkers go about their daily lives without incident. All lies and bullshit to those who consume right wing media and political discourse.

However, like much populist demagoguing throughout history, it is very effective. Trump is the nominee, and there is a very real chance, given the small number of deciding states and the inbuilt advantage of the electoral college for Republicans in the current political system, that he will win the general election. He is successfully dragging out the court cases and will probably not be held accountable before the election, and even if he is, his supporters either won't hear about it or they won't care (he's been convicted, by a jury, of sexual assault, in case you don't know). It's all a liberal conspiracy to them. Nor do they care that Trump ordered the GOP to kill the legislation last month that would have given them almost everything they ever asked for in terms of border security (Trump wanted the preserve the border concerns as a political football rather than actually address the problem).

All that said, those bigoted, braindead die-hards do not constitute a large enough segment of the voters to put him back in office. Which is where you come to Biden. The man is simply seen by most people, unfairly or not, as too old for the job, even among those who think he has done a really good job on the whole. His obstinate insistence on running again is one of the primary reasons Trump could easily win this. Had he said "f**k it, I did my part" and handed it over for a real Dem primary, we could be looking at a fresh middle-aged nominee coming out of tough contest, someone who would have real advantages over the also-old, widely despised and feared, probable future felon Trump. Life isn't always fair, but Biden should be doing the right thing here. If not, he could go down in infamy as the man who facilitated the return of the orange travesty and all that means for the US and the world.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 06, 2024, 10:08:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 06, 2024, 05:41:00 PM
Quote from: befair on March 06, 2024, 03:40:31 PMIn Ireland we've experience of a populist making people scared, then selling fear. But it was more understandable; Paisley was handsome, articulate, informed.
Trump, in contrast, looks ridiculous (fake hair/tan), is vulgar, inarticulate, uninformed. His appeal is bewildering.
Netanyahu has really screwed everyone, exploiting Gaza as an excuse to stay in power; his 'Falklands moment.' Biden may lose the young vote, and the Arab-American vote, which may be enough in the swing states

His appeal isn't that bewildering though when you see the diet of fantastical, paranoid nonsense that the right wing media feeds it's audience. Trump is exactly like Paisley and meets the worldview nurtured by the right wing media, preaching apocalypse and doom and victimhood. You better rely on him, or else you'll be sold down the river in your own, rapidly changing country by the treacherous forces of evil.

I've said this before here, probably on this thread, but I've a cousin who lives in Florida and who is a mild Trumper. They came to NYC last year for Paddy's Day, but they were telling me that their friends were pleading with them not to go. The friends were genuinely terrified that my cousin wouldn't make it out of NYC alive, such was the barrage of nonsense circulating through the right wing media about the safety of NYC and other large "Democratic" cities. Never mind that crime rates are historically low, that NYC is among the safest large cities in the US, and that millions of New Yorkers go about their daily lives without incident. All lies and bullshit to those who consume right wing media and political discourse.

However, like much populist demagoguing throughout history, it is very effective. Trump is the nominee, and there is a very real chance, given the small number of deciding states and the inbuilt advantage of the electoral college for Republicans in the current political system, that he will win the general election. He is successfully dragging out the court cases and will probably not be held accountable before the election, and even if he is, his supporters either won't hear about it or they won't care (he's been convicted, by a jury, of sexual assault, in case you don't know). It's all a liberal conspiracy to them. Nor do they care that Trump ordered the GOP to kill the legislation last month that would have given them almost everything they ever asked for in terms of border security (Trump wanted the preserve the border concerns as a political football rather than actually address the problem).

All that said, those bigoted, braindead die-hards do not constitute a large enough segment of the voters to put him back in office. Which is where you come to Biden. The man is simply seen by most people, unfairly or not, as too old for the job, even among those who think he has done a really good job on the whole. His obstinate insistence on running again is one of the primary reasons Trump could easily win this. Had he said "f**k it, I did my part" and handed it over for a real Dem primary, we could be looking at a fresh middle-aged nominee coming out of tough contest, someone who would have real advantages over the also-old, widely despised and feared, probable future felon Trump. Life isn't always fair, but Biden should be doing the right thing here. If not, he could go down in infamy as the man who facilitated the return of the orange travesty and all that means for the US and the world.

H. L. Mencken (1880-1956) American writer and journalist [Henry Lewis Mencken]
Baltimore Evening Sun (15 Jun 1936)

The central belief of every moron is that he is the victim of a mysterious conspiracy against his common rights and true desserts. He ascribes all his failure to get on in the world, all of his congenital incapacity and damnfoolishness, to the machinations of werewolves assembled in Wall Street, or some other such den of infamy. If these villains could be put down, he holds, he would at once become rich, powerful and eminent. Nine politicians out of every ten, of whatever party, live and have their being by promising to perform this putting down. In brief, they are knaves who maintain themselves by preying on the idiotic vanities and pathetic hopes of half-wits.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: befair on March 06, 2024, 11:05:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 06, 2024, 05:41:00 PM
Quote from: befair on March 06, 2024, 03:40:31 PMIn Ireland we've experience of a populist making people scared, then selling fear. But it was more understandable; Paisley was handsome, articulate, informed.
Trump, in contrast, looks ridiculous (fake hair/tan), is vulgar, inarticulate, uninformed. His appeal is bewildering.
Netanyahu has really screwed everyone, exploiting Gaza as an excuse to stay in power; his 'Falklands moment.' Biden may lose the young vote, and the Arab-American vote, which may be enough in the swing states

His appeal isn't that bewildering though when you see the diet of fantastical, paranoid nonsense that the right wing media feeds it's audience. Trump is exactly like Paisley and meets the worldview nurtured by the right wing media, preaching apocalypse and doom and victimhood. You better rely on him, or else you'll be sold down the river in your own, rapidly changing country by the treacherous forces of evil.

I've said this before here, probably on this thread, but I've a cousin who lives in Florida and who is a mild Trumper. They came to NYC last year for Paddy's Day, but they were telling me that their friends were pleading with them not to go. The friends were genuinely terrified that my cousin wouldn't make it out of NYC alive, such was the barrage of nonsense circulating through the right wing media about the safety of NYC and other large "Democratic" cities. Never mind that crime rates are historically low, that NYC is among the safest large cities in the US, and that millions of New Yorkers go about their daily lives without incident. All lies and bullshit to those who consume right wing media and political discourse.

However, like much populist demagoguing throughout history, it is very effective. Trump is the nominee, and there is a very real chance, given the small number of deciding states and the inbuilt advantage of the electoral college for Republicans in the current political system, that he will win the general election. He is successfully dragging out the court cases and will probably not be held accountable before the election, and even if he is, his supporters either won't hear about it or they won't care (he's been convicted, by a jury, of sexual assault, in case you don't know). It's all a liberal conspiracy to them. Nor do they care that Trump ordered the GOP to kill the legislation last month that would have given them almost everything they ever asked for in terms of border security (Trump wanted the preserve the border concerns as a political football rather than actually address the problem).

All that said, those bigoted, braindead die-hards do not constitute a large enough segment of the voters to put him back in office. Which is where you come to Biden. The man is simply seen by most people, unfairly or not, as too old for the job, even among those who think he has done a really good job on the whole. His obstinate insistence on running again is one of the primary reasons Trump could easily win this. Had he said "f**k it, I did my part" and handed it over for a real Dem primary, we could be looking at a fresh middle-aged nominee coming out of tough contest, someone who would have real advantages over the also-old, widely despised and feared, probable future felon Trump. Life isn't always fair, but Biden should be doing the right thing here. If not, he could go down in infamy as the man who facilitated the return of the orange travesty and all that means for the US and the world.

This is a very fair summary J70; bookies still have it more or less evens (a Dem vs GOP winner), so we can but hope
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: bannside on March 07, 2024, 07:06:57 AM
"I've said this before here, probably on this thread, but I've a cousin who lives in Florida and who is a mild Trumper. They came to NYC last year for Paddy's Day, but they were telling me that their friends were pleading with them not to go. The friends were genuinely terrified that my cousin wouldn't make it out of NYC alive, such was the barrage of nonsense circulating through the right wing media about the safety of NYC and other large "Democratic" cities. Never mind that crime rates are historically low, that NYC is among the safest large cities in the US, and that millions of New Yorkers go about their daily lives without incident. All lies and bullshit to those who consume right wing media and political discourse." Quote.



I've absolutely no skin in the game  think America is nuts tbh, and rotten to the core.  Both political parties controlled blackmailed or bought out by Israelis and its been that way for decades.

My daughter and son in law spent 5 days in NYC just a few weeks ago. They did all the major sights and attractions which were fine, but said that there was proper menace on every sidestreet, junkies popping out everywhere, looking like zombies. They felt like they were being followed and said it was a very unpleasant experience, because it was not an isolated thing, it was everywhere! And neither of them are shrinking violets!

Surely America can do better than put up a pervert and multiple charge sheet narcissist  and an octogenarian who sadly has lost his way. I've zero intention ever to go near the place tbh...
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 07, 2024, 09:01:40 AM
Quote from: bannside on March 07, 2024, 07:06:57 AM"I've said this before here, probably on this thread, but I've a cousin who lives in Florida and who is a mild Trumper. They came to NYC last year for Paddy's Day, but they were telling me that their friends were pleading with them not to go. The friends were genuinely terrified that my cousin wouldn't make it out of NYC alive, such was the barrage of nonsense circulating through the right wing media about the safety of NYC and other large "Democratic" cities. Never mind that crime rates are historically low, that NYC is among the safest large cities in the US, and that millions of New Yorkers go about their daily lives without incident. All lies and bullshit to those who consume right wing media and political discourse." Quote.



I've absolutely no skin in the game  think America is nuts tbh, and rotten to the core.  Both political parties controlled blackmailed or bought out by Israelis and its been that way for decades.

My daughter and son in law spent 5 days in NYC just a few weeks ago. They did all the major sights and attractions which were fine, but said that there was proper menace on every sidestreet, junkies popping out everywhere, looking like zombies. They felt like they were being followed and said it was a very unpleasant experience, because it was not an isolated thing, it was everywhere! And neither of them are shrinking violets!

Surely America can do better than put up a pervert and multiple charge sheet narcissist  and an octogenarian who sadly has lost his way. I've zero intention ever to go near the place tbh...


It is a damning indictment of the state of America at present that this is all they have to offer as the respective nominees from their parties.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Rossfan on March 07, 2024, 10:27:05 AM
Must be 100m people eligible for the Presidency and they end up with those 2!

Sick sad place which has probably outlived its time.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: LeoMc on March 07, 2024, 12:29:24 PM
The key will be the 2 VP nominees. It will be those 2 finishing out the term in the hot seat.

Is Harris a shoe in for the Dem VP or do Presidents often change VP nominees ahead of 2nd term?
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 01:48:30 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 07, 2024, 09:01:40 AM
Quote from: bannside on March 07, 2024, 07:06:57 AM"I've said this before here, probably on this thread, but I've a cousin who lives in Florida and who is a mild Trumper. They came to NYC last year for Paddy's Day, but they were telling me that their friends were pleading with them not to go. The friends were genuinely terrified that my cousin wouldn't make it out of NYC alive, such was the barrage of nonsense circulating through the right wing media about the safety of NYC and other large "Democratic" cities. Never mind that crime rates are historically low, that NYC is among the safest large cities in the US, and that millions of New Yorkers go about their daily lives without incident. All lies and bullshit to those who consume right wing media and political discourse." Quote.



I've absolutely no skin in the game  think America is nuts tbh, and rotten to the core.  Both political parties controlled blackmailed or bought out by Israelis and its been that way for decades.

My daughter and son in law spent 5 days in NYC just a few weeks ago. They did all the major sights and attractions which were fine, but said that there was proper menace on every sidestreet, junkies popping out everywhere, looking like zombies. They felt like they were being followed and said it was a very unpleasant experience, because it was not an isolated thing, it was everywhere! And neither of them are shrinking violets!

Surely America can do better than put up a pervert and multiple charge sheet narcissist  and an octogenarian who sadly has lost his way. I've zero intention ever to go near the place tbh...


It is a damning indictment of the state of America at present that this is all they have to offer as the respective nominees from their parties.
The political process is owned by the plutocrats. Trump has more superpac money than Haley. Haley is coherent and Trump has dementia but Trump won because of the superpacs. they were introduced under OBAMA with Citizens Unlimited and are allowed unlimited money . so it's down to a handful of billionaires who control politics in the US. They want Israel and no taxes on wealth .

Haley controls between 25 and 30% of GOP votes. People who cannot stomach trump. The double haters.- they also hate Biden. In the Democratic party, 100'000 voted against Biden in the Michigan Primary. There is no representation for most people.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on March 07, 2024, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 07, 2024, 12:29:24 PMThe key will be the 2 VP nominees. It will be those 2 finishing out the term in the hot seat.

Is Harris a shoe in for the Dem VP or do Presidents often change VP nominees ahead of 2nd term?
Changing VP has happened occasionally in the past, but not recently. There is no chance Biden will drop Harris.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: clonian on March 07, 2024, 04:40:59 PM
Quote from: dec on March 07, 2024, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 07, 2024, 12:29:24 PMThe key will be the 2 VP nominees. It will be those 2 finishing out the term in the hot seat.

Is Harris a shoe in for the Dem VP or do Presidents often change VP nominees ahead of 2nd term?
Changing VP has happened occasionally in the past, but not recently. There is no chance Biden will drop Harris.


The talk at the time was she would take over half way through this current term because he was too old to finish the time out and here we are with the same candidates again. Both should be at home (or in a home) with their feet up ffs.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2024, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: dec on March 07, 2024, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 07, 2024, 12:29:24 PMThe key will be the 2 VP nominees. It will be those 2 finishing out the term in the hot seat.

Is Harris a shoe in for the Dem VP or do Presidents often change VP nominees ahead of 2nd term?
Changing VP has happened occasionally in the past, but not recently. There is no chance Biden will drop Harris.


And in terms of viability, it doesn't matter at all who Trump selects. Despite Trump's enormous personality and charisma, Pence did matter in 2016, because Trump was trying to shore up the christian right vote and needed Pence's perceived piety to offset his own coarse vulgarity. Now they worship him more than Jesus. I'd say his VP pick will be among the most inconsequential ever!
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2024, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 01:48:30 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 07, 2024, 09:01:40 AM
Quote from: bannside on March 07, 2024, 07:06:57 AM"I've said this before here, probably on this thread, but I've a cousin who lives in Florida and who is a mild Trumper. They came to NYC last year for Paddy's Day, but they were telling me that their friends were pleading with them not to go. The friends were genuinely terrified that my cousin wouldn't make it out of NYC alive, such was the barrage of nonsense circulating through the right wing media about the safety of NYC and other large "Democratic" cities. Never mind that crime rates are historically low, that NYC is among the safest large cities in the US, and that millions of New Yorkers go about their daily lives without incident. All lies and bullshit to those who consume right wing media and political discourse." Quote.



I've absolutely no skin in the game  think America is nuts tbh, and rotten to the core.  Both political parties controlled blackmailed or bought out by Israelis and its been that way for decades.

My daughter and son in law spent 5 days in NYC just a few weeks ago. They did all the major sights and attractions which were fine, but said that there was proper menace on every sidestreet, junkies popping out everywhere, looking like zombies. They felt like they were being followed and said it was a very unpleasant experience, because it was not an isolated thing, it was everywhere! And neither of them are shrinking violets!

Surely America can do better than put up a pervert and multiple charge sheet narcissist  and an octogenarian who sadly has lost his way. I've zero intention ever to go near the place tbh...


It is a damning indictment of the state of America at present that this is all they have to offer as the respective nominees from their parties.
The political process is owned by the plutocrats. Trump has more superpac money than Haley. Haley is coherent and Trump has dementia but Trump won because of the superpacs. they were introduced under OBAMA with Citizens Unlimited and are allowed unlimited money . so it's down to a handful of billionaires who control politics in the US. They want Israel and no taxes on wealth .

Haley controls between 25 and 30% of GOP votes. People who cannot stomach trump. The double haters.- they also hate Biden. In the Democratic party, 100'000 voted against Biden in the Michigan Primary. There is no representation for most people.

Michigan, which has a significant Muslim population, was a protest vote about Gaza. If that is still a live issue in the autumn, Biden is in huge trouble. Those Muslim and ultra-progressive voters won't vote for Trump, but they could stay home. The Democratic Party is a coalition of many different interests, all mainly united by their opposition to the christian nationalism of the GOP.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: clonian on March 07, 2024, 05:30:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2024, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 01:48:30 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 07, 2024, 09:01:40 AM
Quote from: bannside on March 07, 2024, 07:06:57 AM"I've said this before here, probably on this thread, but I've a cousin who lives in Florida and who is a mild Trumper. They came to NYC last year for Paddy's Day, but they were telling me that their friends were pleading with them not to go. The friends were genuinely terrified that my cousin wouldn't make it out of NYC alive, such was the barrage of nonsense circulating through the right wing media about the safety of NYC and other large "Democratic" cities. Never mind that crime rates are historically low, that NYC is among the safest large cities in the US, and that millions of New Yorkers go about their daily lives without incident. All lies and bullshit to those who consume right wing media and political discourse." Quote.



I've absolutely no skin in the game  think America is nuts tbh, and rotten to the core.  Both political parties controlled blackmailed or bought out by Israelis and its been that way for decades.

My daughter and son in law spent 5 days in NYC just a few weeks ago. They did all the major sights and attractions which were fine, but said that there was proper menace on every sidestreet, junkies popping out everywhere, looking like zombies. They felt like they were being followed and said it was a very unpleasant experience, because it was not an isolated thing, it was everywhere! And neither of them are shrinking violets!

Surely America can do better than put up a pervert and multiple charge sheet narcissist  and an octogenarian who sadly has lost his way. I've zero intention ever to go near the place tbh...


It is a damning indictment of the state of America at present that this is all they have to offer as the respective nominees from their parties.
The political process is owned by the plutocrats. Trump has more superpac money than Haley. Haley is coherent and Trump has dementia but Trump won because of the superpacs. they were introduced under OBAMA with Citizens Unlimited and are allowed unlimited money . so it's down to a handful of billionaires who control politics in the US. They want Israel and no taxes on wealth .

Haley controls between 25 and 30% of GOP votes. People who cannot stomach trump. The double haters.- they also hate Biden. In the Democratic party, 100'000 voted against Biden in the Michigan Primary. There is no representation for most people.

Michigan, which has a significant Muslim population, was a protest vote about Gaza. If that is still a live issue in the autumn, Biden is in huge trouble. Those Muslim and ultra-progressive voters won't vote for Trump, but they could stay home. The Democratic Party is a coalition of many different interests, all mainly united by their opposition to the christian nationalism of the GOP.

Trump would be doing the exact same thing in Gaza though.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 05:42:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2024, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 01:48:30 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 07, 2024, 09:01:40 AM
Quote from: bannside on March 07, 2024, 07:06:57 AM"I've said this before here, probably on this thread, but I've a cousin who lives in Florida and who is a mild Trumper. They came to NYC last year for Paddy's Day, but they were telling me that their friends were pleading with them not to go. The friends were genuinely terrified that my cousin wouldn't make it out of NYC alive, such was the barrage of nonsense circulating through the right wing media about the safety of NYC and other large "Democratic" cities. Never mind that crime rates are historically low, that NYC is among the safest large cities in the US, and that millions of New Yorkers go about their daily lives without incident. All lies and bullshit to those who consume right wing media and political discourse." Quote.



I've absolutely no skin in the game  think America is nuts tbh, and rotten to the core.  Both political parties controlled blackmailed or bought out by Israelis and its been that way for decades.

My daughter and son in law spent 5 days in NYC just a few weeks ago. They did all the major sights and attractions which were fine, but said that there was proper menace on every sidestreet, junkies popping out everywhere, looking like zombies. They felt like they were being followed and said it was a very unpleasant experience, because it was not an isolated thing, it was everywhere! And neither of them are shrinking violets!

Surely America can do better than put up a pervert and multiple charge sheet narcissist  and an octogenarian who sadly has lost his way. I've zero intention ever to go near the place tbh...


It is a damning indictment of the state of America at present that this is all they have to offer as the respective nominees from their parties.
The political process is owned by the plutocrats. Trump has more superpac money than Haley. Haley is coherent and Trump has dementia but Trump won because of the superpacs. they were introduced under OBAMA with Citizens Unlimited and are allowed unlimited money . so it's down to a handful of billionaires who control politics in the US. They want Israel and no taxes on wealth .

Haley controls between 25 and 30% of GOP votes. People who cannot stomach trump. The double haters.- they also hate Biden. In the Democratic party, 100'000 voted against Biden in the Michigan Primary. There is no representation for most people.

Michigan, which has a significant Muslim population, was a protest vote about Gaza. If that is still a live issue in the autumn, Biden is in huge trouble. Those Muslim and ultra-progressive voters won't vote for Trump, but they could stay home. The Democratic Party is a coalition of many different interests, all mainly united by their opposition to the christian nationalism of the GOP.
There is a huge cohort of Progressives such as Susan Sarandon who are putting pressure on the Dems.
The longer Israel continues to deterorate, the more pressure
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2024, 10:39:53 AM
It's sad that a great nation such as the USA has given its people a choice between Trump and Biden. Like how on earth did it come down to these two.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: tiempo on March 08, 2024, 11:04:43 AM
The situation in Israel is being used to influence the outcome of the US election and to get Trump back into power, when he gets in hostilities will scale down and he'll be hailed as a peace broker, on the face of it Gaza will enter a period of respite care, in reality as the eyes of the world train their focus elsewhere the Israeli gov will continue to turn the screw in mendacious and unfathomably cruel ways to complete the genocide/extermination they have in mind

Reminds me how anti-Semitism was the schtick used to eviscerate Corbyn, the game is rigged
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: JoG2 on March 08, 2024, 11:37:28 AM
Quote from: tiempo on March 08, 2024, 11:04:43 AMThe situation in Israel is being used to influence the outcome of the US election and to get Trump back into power, when he gets in hostilities will scale down and he'll be hailed as a peace broker, on the face of it Gaza will enter a period of respite care, in reality as the eyes of the world train their focus elsewhere the Israeli gov will continue to turn the screw in mendacious and unfathomably cruel ways to complete the genocide/extermination they have in mind

Reminds me how anti-Semitism was the schtick used to eviscerate Corbyn, the game is rigged

Completely rigged. Genocide Joe sees a voter backlash re their involvement in arming and supporting Israel, is now building a US base in Gaza to protect the humanitarian aid. Will see how that goes
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on March 08, 2024, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2024, 10:39:53 AMIt's sad that a great nation such as the USA has given its people a choice between Trump and Biden. Like how on earth did it come down to these two.


The irony is that either of them would lose to just about any other reasonably plausible candidate the other party threw up.

But it's no mystery why the GOP base wants Trump. He is the personified result of two generations of evolution of that party, nurtured and driven by it's media. It's little more than a personality cult now. They had very viable alternatives such as DeSantis (w**ker though he is) or Haley or Youngkin, who would have brought much the same politics without all the corruption and baggage. They didn't want them.

Biden... he was supposed to be a once-off, centrist crisis solution to get rid of Trump. Nobody signed up for eight years. Unfortunately, there is no mechanism like in parliamentary politics to force him out.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 11:11:58 PM
I see the foreman of the Jury in the Trump trial is Irish
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: Blowitupref on April 16, 2024, 11:20:25 PM
Trump calls Biden sleepy Joe yet he can't stay awake at his own court case.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2024, 11:23:54 PM
Recently sat on a jury in Queens. I don't think I'd want to run the risk of sitting on this particular one however.
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 11:26:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2024, 11:23:54 PMRecently sat on a jury in Queens. I don't think I'd want to run the risk of sitting on this particular one however.

I am very glad I'm not allowed to sit on juries at all but I agree this one would be horrendous
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: dec on April 17, 2024, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2024, 11:23:54 PMRecently sat on a jury in Queens. I don't think I'd want to run the risk of sitting on this particular one however.
Nearest I ever got was when I lived in Manhattan, I got called in to the initial meeting where the lawyer for each side got to speak to us briefly, sent off for lunch and by the time we got back it was settled, apparently settling right at the final moment is not unusual.

Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: David McKeown on April 17, 2024, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: dec on April 17, 2024, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2024, 11:23:54 PMRecently sat on a jury in Queens. I don't think I'd want to run the risk of sitting on this particular one however.
Nearest I ever got was when I lived in Manhattan, I got called in to the initial meeting where the lawyer for each side got to speak to us briefly, sent off for lunch and by the time we got back it was settled, apparently settling right at the final moment is not unusual.



Pretty common over here anywhere
Title: Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
Post by: whitey on April 18, 2024, 01:45:55 AM
Last time I was in court I heard a priceless exchange between a suspect and their attorney in the lobby

The guy was claiming that he was a victim of mistaken identity and that it wasn't him caught on CCTV doing whatever it was he was being charged with.

The Attorney asked him could anyone vouch for him and provide an alibi.

He said yes....there was someone, but he only knew their nickname not their real name.

And he didn't know exactly where they lived, but they lived in one of the (sketchy) motels along a well known highway

And he tried to call them but their phone was disconnected.

I didn't wait around but I'm sure the judge took the "alibi" with a pinch of salt
Text only | Text with Images